text:
Volunteer Firefighters Drop Effort to Block Montgomery County's Ambulance Fee
Volunteers and county reach agreement on funding; fee will take effect Jan. 1.
Montgomery County volunteer firefighters signed an agreement with the county on Monday that volunteers say will avoid a repeat of the 2010 ambulance fee referendum and allow the fee to take effect in January.
The County Council approved the fee in May, 18 months after county voters rejected it by a 54-percent-to-46-percent margin in a 2010 ballot question.
The county projects that the fee will generate $18 million a year that will go to additional fire and rescue service staffing, training, apparatus, facilities and equipment.
"The bottom line is that the residents here in the county will be served much better because of the enhancements that will be made to the fire and rescue service with this EMS reimbursement," said Montgomery County Fire Chief Richard Bowers.
With a county fire truck and assembled firefighters as the backdrop, County Executive Isiah Leggett (D) and the Montgomery County Volunteer Fire-Rescue Association President Marcine D. Goodloe signed the agreement Monday afternoon at the Rockville Volunteer Fire Department's Station 3 on Hungerford Drive.
"We're going to fund fire and rescue and public safety as a higher priority," Leggett said.
The agreement calls for Leggett to propose an amendment to the fiscal 2013 budget and future budgets that would put 15 percent of the net revenue from the fee to local fire and rescue departments. The amount would "supplement and not supplant" the current fire and rescue service budget.
The additional revenue will not significantly change other parts of the county's budget for fiscal 2013, which began July 1, Leggett said.
The agreement also outlines subjects for collective bargaining between the county and volunteer firefighters, including the use of vehicles and facilities owned by local fire and rescue departments, volunteer staffing of apparatus, grants from local departments to government organizations or private entities, and physical and other requirements for volunteer chiefs and operational officers.
The county chief also would work more closely with the volunteer association when proposing policy changes.
Click on the PDF above to read the entire agreement.
The first year of the fee will allow the county to purchase two fire engines, a rescue unit and five ambulances, Leggett said. It will also allow for full staffing for eight engine companies, 13 ladder companies and four rescue squads.
In addition, it will fund facility maintenance and repairs at county- and volunteer-owned stations, the purchase of protective equipment for firefighters, and the replacement of apparatus. It will fund maintenance, utility costs and personnel for the new Travilah fire station, Leggett said. It also will allow the county to train new recruits and add firefighters in order to restore service at stations where service was reduced, he said.
County and the volunteer association will work to ensure that insurance companies will reimburse the county for the cost of an ambulance ride for county residents, officials said. Under the legislation, non-residents will have to pay but could submit bills to their insurance providers for reimbursement. Patients without insurance will be able to file for a waiver from the fee.
The county is exploring whether it could do away with the bill for non-residents, Leggett said.
"We still have concerns about out-of-county residents [paying], and hope to continue to look at the economic concerns, but the improvements that were in this bill are outstanding," Goodloe said. "And therefore, because we believe this enhancement is going to benefit not only the public but career and volunteer personnel as well, we will not go to referendum."
The 2010 referendum led to a bitter campaign between volunteers and the county. County leaders accused volunteers of spreading misinformation and telling county residents that they—and not their insurance companies—would have to pick up the $400 to $800 tab for medical transport. Volunteers sued the county, alleging that on-duty fire and rescue workers were used to campaign in favor of the fee. The suit was dismissed.
Volunteer firefighters chose not to go forward with a referendum campaign that they thought would not be in the best interest of county residents, Goodloe said.
Volunteers, in addition to their own jobs, serve 50 to 60 hours a week with the fire and rescue service, she said.
"To go out and begin collecting signatures again is a chore," she said.
Asked if he was concerned that voters would not get a second chance to vote on the fee, Leggett said: "Not at all."
Leggett said that the negative impact from the failure of the 2010 referendum that he had predicted had come to pass, including cuts to libraries and employee benefits and other areas of the county budget.
Leggett said the additional revenue generated by the fee is important for the county at a time when it will have to shoulder the burden of "what could very well be more than $400 million over 10 years in state teacher pension costs." The Maryland General Assembly in May approved a 50-50 split of teacher pension costs between the state and county governments.
Leggett said the agreement was forged because both sides were able to step back from the debate that raged in the lead up to the 2010 ballot question.
"I think that we are a better county as a result of that debate," he said. "We were able to resolve some issues that I think needed to be resolved and to put us in a position both financially and operationally for the long-term."
Read related articles:
Jim Burnetti
8:58 pm on Monday, August 13, 2012
That's a shame. The volunteers were right. The idea that this will provide revenue to the county at no costs to residents is laughable. Insurance companies will raise their rates. To believe otherwise is to believe in the tooth fairy.
Corbin Dallas Multipass
7:50 pm on Tuesday, August 14, 2012
"Insurance companies will raise their rates. To believe otherwise is to believe in the tooth fairy."
DC has an ambulance fee: http://fems.dc.gov/DC/FEMS/About+FEMS/Ambulance+Billing/ci.Ambulance+Billing+Questions.print#0
PG has an ambulance fee: http://cms.princegeorgescountymd.gov/FireEMSNews/default.aspx?itemid=765
Frederick has an Ambulance Fee: http://www.frederickcountymd.gov/index.aspx?NID=1119
Every MoCo citizen that ever got injured in any of these counties would have had to pay these fees through their insurance. If the insurance hadn't been taking that into account already, that would be pretty silly of them.
SOoooooooooo I guess the tooth fairy does exist?
Joe Thomas
11:04 pm on Tuesday, August 14, 2012
You have no idea what you are talking about. We all pay higher insurance rates because all of the surrounding jurisdictions added ambulance fees years ago. They calculate rates bases on zones, not by counties.
9:40 pm on Monday, August 13, 2012
I agree - we pay enough in taxes in the county already. They are addicted to spending. tax and spend tax and spend tax and spend. When will it stop?
7:07 pm on Tuesday, August 14, 2012
Gary, are you making a joke? You realize you CURRENTLY pay for emergency transport through taxes. Instead, under this new law, the transport will be paid by your insurer, which is the entire point of insurance and what most every single surrounding jurisdiction has done for years. I seriously hope you're making a joke.
Ballistic Redneck
10:58 pm on Monday, August 13, 2012
Let's see, now they tax us to drive on the roads (the intercounty connector), they tax us to get a ride in an ambulance, they tax us for speeding and running red lights (the cameras), what's next?
I believe this fee is going to discourage people who are having chest pains from calling 911.
9:02 am on Tuesday, August 14, 2012
Yeah, what happened to our right to speed and run red lights with impugnity?!
Corbin Dallas Multipass
7:40 pm on Tuesday, August 14, 2012
"I believe this fee is going to discourage people who are having chest pains from calling 911"
I can't tell with a name like Ballistic Redneck if this is satire.
+1 amarynth
6:21 pm on Wednesday, August 15, 2012
You are so right! How can Leggett over look what the Montgomery County residents stated to him and the entire council when this issue went to referendum? What evidently no county resident realizes is that the "Volunteers" DO NOT have a voice or an advocate in the media. The UNION can afford to pay for whatever publicity they want. No group supports the volunteers, other than the volunteers. Ask Ike Leggett if upper Montgomery station #9 still has an ambulance for their community, answer NO, we are not important, die for lack of transportation, not in Leggetts problem pocket. The F______ county took our ambulance, because they can! Still the old "Doug Duncan" philisophy, the union money will get me to the govenors mansion. The nineteen volunteer corporations build the fire/rescue system in Montgomery County, they train harder at their own expense, have to pass their tests legitimately and really care about their communities. The only reason the volunteers conceeded on the Ambulance Fees is because they were threatened with the loss of their equipment and staffing. When is someone going to investigate the issue of volunteers vs. union in Montgomery County? The only people that are going to suffer our the citizens of Montgomery County.
12:44 am on Tuesday, August 14, 2012
18 months between when the ambulance fee was voted down and our wise county council appears to ignore what the voters say, possibly may even think that it doesn't matter what the citizens say.
12:35 pm on Tuesday, August 14, 2012
That seems to be the case! And I'm sure it cost a lot to put that on the ballet. A shame that they just ignore the result.
6:36 pm on Wednesday, August 15, 2012
Dear Bob:
We voted it down, that did not manner to Leggett. The amount of money that the county has spend on legal fees to construct their bill should be made public, like we would get the truth, Ha! Leggett states that the income from the fees will go back to the MCFRS, BS, it goes into the "general fund". When you figure out how much the county government has spent on legal fees then add the administration expense to legislate and do the paper work, it will cost the county money! But they will arrange their figures so that the true expense of this ludicrous action will never be known, except by the citizens who will pay increased premiums on their health insurance, that actually happened when this was first proposed, health insurance companies covering their A_____ just in case it happened when first proposed, did anyone get a refund? I doubt it. County government is just as corrupt as state and federal, the guns are just a smaller caliber. Been married to a VOLUNTEER for thirty-two years I do really know what is happening to our volunteers.
Paul Peterson
7:33 am on Tuesday, August 14, 2012
How much did the county council pay (tax dollars) to the volunteers fire fighters for them to cave-in and give up the fight? Well, when the Rockville Volunteer Firemen ask for donations this year, they only have to make two calls or two letters. They can contact the county council and the county executive for the donations. Need more money...raise the bag tax to ten cents. Just another reason to move to Virginia.
6:38 pm on Wednesday, August 15, 2012
Paul: You don't really know what the County/Union threatened the volunteer corporation with. I'm going to West Virginia. F_______ Leggett and his council!
Richard Rice
9:27 am on Tuesday, August 14, 2012
I am personally against any more taxation on my retirement budget for funding
ambulance rides or anything else though I applaud Kensington Volunter Fire Department for all the great work they do!!!
Kyle Walker
9:35 am on Tuesday, August 14, 2012
Paul Peterson is exactly right. I would expect that the taxes we all pay would cover something as basic as emergency ambulance service. If they don't do this they may have to make cuts to libraries, employee benefits and teacher pension costs. Hello. It's called a budget. If you can't afford it, make cuts.
Corbin Dallas Multipass
7:38 pm on Tuesday, August 14, 2012
"County and the volunteer association will work to ensure that insurance companies will reimburse the county for the cost of an ambulance ride for county residents, officials said. Under the legislation, non-residents will have to pay but could submit bills to their insurance providers for reimbursement. Patients without insurance will be able to file for a waiver from the fee.
The county is exploring whether it could do away with the bill for non-residents, Leggett said."
How about, if you can't afford it, get the insurance company to pay. Does that work?
10:00 am on Tuesday, August 14, 2012
The County Council ignores the voters, yet they all will be reelected in November.
Michael Smith
10:31 am on Tuesday, August 14, 2012
There are over 300 taxes and fees that people pay for indirectly and directly. I would post the entire list but it would exceed the limit to comment on here.
The thing is, they'll raise taxes to pay for those shiny new toys but after they're bought and paid for the tax won't go away, they'll just find something else to tax us with.
Americans are already paying over 90% of their income to taxes, shelter, and food; there was a time when people would be calling for heads on a spike, hell the biggest reason we separated from England was because of excessive taxation!
I guess people and Politicians never learn, tax the people too much and you'll cripple the economy and cripple your people's ability to actually earn money.
Lower taxes and the government actually MAKES more money because people now have money to actually stimulate the government instead of propping up a failed government system.
But that wouldn't co-align with the government's immediate best interests.
Leggett, who are you REALLY working for? Because it sure as hell isn't your constituents.
Corbin Dallas Multipass
7:29 pm on Tuesday, August 14, 2012
"There are over 300 taxes and fees that people pay for indirectly and directly. I would post the entire list but it would exceed the limit to comment on here."
Hyperlink, yo.
2:46 pm on Tuesday, August 14, 2012
Isiah and Barrack . . . . two of a kind. Vote them bout in November !!
art slesinger
4:09 pm on Tuesday, August 14, 2012
Nice that the Volunteers also support the Council ignoring the voters objection to this policy. One more reason this one party system has gone a muck. One would hope the ballot box would have geater impact.
Corbin Dallas Multipass
7:32 pm on Tuesday, August 14, 2012
"Montgomery County volunteer firefighters signed an agreement with the county on Monday that volunteers say will avoid a repeat of the 2010 ambulance fee referendum and allow the fee to take affect in January."
10:31 pm on Tuesday, August 14, 2012
i wish you compliment of the season with great joy in my heart for coming in contact with you and i have a special reason of contacting you which i will make known to you when i get your respond o my email address (email@example.com) there i will tell you everything about me and the reason of contacting you . SARAH GOD BLESS YOU DEAR
Corbin Dallas Multipass
6:58 pm on Wednesday, August 15, 2012
I get a "security error" when trying to read the PDF. Don't know if that is something specific to my case.


text:
"We will never save civilisation as long as civilisation is our main object. We must learn to want something else even more." —C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
Tuesday, August 17, 2010
Open Questions for the Anti-Lordship Folks
In a previous comment thread, I asked a couple questions that would seem to move us toward clarity—whether the issue is a matter of semantics or different understandings of the gospel. I thought it might be useful, since the answer proposed resembled a smokescreen more than a biblical explanation, to present them to a broader audience:
1) Is repentance essential to conversion?
2) How is repentance different from submission to Christ's lordship?
As Ross Perot used to say, "I'm all ears."
And for all the kids out there, this is who I'm talking about . . .
54 comments:
- Bro. Jude 1:3 said...
1) Yes.
2) Repentance is repentance and submission is submission.
I like my answer, BTW. - 8/17/2010 10:01 AM
- d4v34x said...
Well, in light of the conversation preceding this, I have to concede that this is not merely a semantics issue.
If you don't get substantive answers to your questions, I'm going to be more disappointed than I already am. - 8/17/2010 11:18 AM
- Jim Peet said...
In two prototypical gospel messages, repentance and Christ's Lordship are clearly presented:
Peter: Acts 2:38, "Repent!"; Christ's Lordship in 2:36, "God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." (and previous verses)
Paul: Acts 17:30, "now commands all men everywhere to repent". Christ is proclaimed to be "the Man whom He has ordained" (31) - 8/17/2010 3:10 PM
- Swrdn said...
- This comment has been removed by the author.
- SwrdnShld said...
The optionalLordship advocates like to cut up who Christ is and only embrace what tickles their ears.
- James Kime said...
Ben, I don't know if you knew this, but Lou has a website with tons of articles. He has also written a book.
He typically only posts on websites where the webmaster will just delete anything that he doesn't like. I doubt he will be back.
Swrdnshld, hilarious. - 8/17/2010 10:02 PM
- Ben said...
Thanks James, particularly for noting Lou's site. I don't anticipate that he'll be posting answers to my questions on this thread. I don't think he'd mind my saying that he e-mailed me today to tell me that he's answered the questions I posed in his book and on numerous articles on his website.
I'm not intending to take time to pull quotes out of his website and/or post links to his relevant info. I would encourage anyone who thinks this is a semantic issue and/or that he offers biblically coherent answers to check it all out. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it has the same effect that reading Ryrie's [Not] So Great Salvation (thanks Paul!) and Geisler's Chosen But Free had on me. In other words, the opposite of the effect intended. - 8/17/2010 10:28 PM
- Shayne McAllister said...
Keswick Theology has also muddied the semantic waters on this subject. Ben, has Andy Naselli's book prompted any of this discussion? Andy doesn't seem to think that it's just semantic.
http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/2010/06/03/why-let-go-and-let-god-is-a-bad-idea/ - 8/17/2010 11:29 PM
- James Kime said...
Shayne, when I first posted on Lou's website, I mentioned that he sounded like he embraced Keswick theology. He told me he didn't even know what that was. Nice that he parades himself as a sound teacher and theologian and is ignorant of his own beliefs.
By the way Shayne, Lou has a website where he has lots of articles. He has also written a book.
We can all thank Al Gore for inventing the internet so that Lou has a place to vent his anger at gospel preaching. - 8/18/2010 12:20 AM
- d4v34x said...
I would think any militant defender of the Gospel would relish an opportunity to defend it in the very presence of its "vandals".
I guess I'm going to have to go scour IDOTG for a definition of repentance and/or sinner.
I shall report my findings at some point in the future. - 8/18/2010 7:17 AM
- Ben said...
Shayne, can't remember if Andy triggered this present interest. Seems likely. I completely agree with him that it's more than semantics. I'm not sure he's arguing that it's fundamental gospel issue though, as I do. Seems as though he's limited it to a debate over models of sanctification. I'm arguing it's connected to models of conversion.
Dave, maybe that whole "earnestly contend" thing isn't all it's cracked up to be. - 8/18/2010 10:30 AM
- d4v34x said...
Since Lou has a "Repentance" tag, I found lots of posts that purport to talk about that concept, but very little actual discussion about what it is.
However, Lou did write this comment on a post the sole purpose of which was definging repentence. In the interest of best accuracy, I present it with italics intact.
Repentance is a change of mind where one recognizes he is a sinner before a just and holy God. When he agrees with the convincing and convicting work of the Holy Spirit that he is a sinner (John 16:8-9) and transfers his dependence to the Lord for his salvation—he has biblically repented. Biblical repentance is a change of mind that should produce the fruit of a change in direction from self and sin toward God. The fruit that should follow is distinct from repentance itself. This change of mind is what Acts 20:21 describes as, "repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ."
Unfortunately, I'm not sure if that actually clarifies aything. - 8/18/2010 11:18 AM
- Jim Peet said...
Does it help if one understands that repentance is a gift from God?
Acts 11:18, ""Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.""
I'm not sure if I am correct, but I see the Lordship issue as basically an ordo salutus debate. If men are totally depraved, how can they respond to the gospel call without the effectual call of God. - 8/18/2010 11:50 AM
- theologshmeolog said...
The sense one gets with many anti-lordship types is that they are essentially anti-calvinistic. They will protest otherwise, but for the more lately vocal ones, their anti-calvinistic bent seems to color everything from soteriology, and ecclesiology/matters of gospel-separation. One of the more VOCAL, seemingly prolific and extremely self-marketed writers has recently attempted to answer Lordship issues by referencing what he deems to be the extra-biblical view of faith/repentance of calvinists. Having held an antilordship view in the past myself, the markers are evident IMHO. Sam Hendrickson
- James Kime said...
Theolog, this is the part that demonstrates their ignorance, many preachers who were/are decidedly NOT calvinist, still preached the Lordship view of repentance. One of my personal heroes was Adrian Rogers, and he did that very thing.
- Ben said...
It does clarify that Lou thinks fruit is an ideal but optional, not certain, outcome of saving, persevering faith.
Jim, it does seem as though that could be a part, since the anti-lordship crowd accuses lordship advocates of making repentance essentially a work. Of course, lordship advocates say nothing of the kind since they grasp that faith and repentance are gifts, not works. But on the other hand, if the anti-lordship crowd denies that faith and repentance are gifts, then they're functionally making something a work, and they'd no doubt deny that. At least I hope so. In the end, I think it's inconsistency and incoherence that makes them difficult to have a constructive conversation with.
Sam, thanks for reminding me via e-mail of the Nate Busenitz-Martuneac conversation, which concludes here. I only scanned the last installment today, but as I remember, the whole conversation supports my analysis in the above paragraph. - 8/18/2010 3:54 PM
- Shayne McAllister said...
Unfortunately I've run into Lou's comments on various forums for years now. I share your angst.
I would just point out that just because one may not know the term Keswick Theology (let alone how to say it properly) doesn't mean one hasn't had a lot of influence from it. I sense the Keswick Theology Force strongly, here Luke.
I grew up at Bob Jones University, and I strangely remember Lordship Salvation as a both a dirty word, and simultaneously being taught it as the truth of the gospel. Does anyone know why that could be? Which fundamentalists would be pro or con Lordship salvation? Was it that fundamentalists don't like terminology like this and just "believe the Bible?" - 8/18/2010 5:16 PM
As one who sat under Lou when he exported this controversy across the oceans, I can tell you that Lou regards Calvinism and Lordship as inextricably linked. His first 'publication', which we as students had to read, was "Biblical Answers to Calvinism" - a 'refutation' of TULIP, followed by "Biblical Answers to Lordship Salvation."
His is essentially the Dave Hunt view of depravity, election and volition, hence 'faith is a simple choice', and repentance is changing your mind to make that choice. - 8/19/2010 7:35 AM
- Ben said...
It might be important to note that this inability to define (biblically) repentance and submission to Christ is not a "Lou Martuneac" issue. This is a widespread debacle in both fundamentalism and broader evangelicalism.
- James Kime said...
Well, Lou has written a book along with many articles in case no one knew. He doesn't have to interact and answer questions. It is better to live in his own little world and make up stuff that he disagrees with. It is so hard to believe he is a movement fundamentalist. I was just shocked to learn of it.
- Look up said...
1) Is repentance essential to conversion?
A better question would be, is conversion essential to repentance? IE does one need to be converted before they change their mind about sin?
2) How is repentance different from submission to Christ's lordship?
Considering in Genesis 6:6 or maybe Amos 7:3,6, The LORD, (Jehovah-AKA Christ) repented which did not equate to submission to Himself, it must be very different.
Here is a good book on the topic.
http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/except2.html - 8/21/2010 12:43 AM
- Ben said...
Look Up,
Feel free to answer your own question, if you feel it would be helpful. In any case feel free to continue to avoid the question I asked, as everyone else has.
As for your second non-answer, perhaps I was unrealistic to assume that folks would recognize that I'm attempting to understand the anti-lordship view in the context of conversion. I mean, presumably, whatever repentance in that context means to you, it means something other than than the use of similar terminology in reference to God expressing the workings of his mind in human terms. Or perhaps it does not. I'd be curious to hear.
I'll wager this is a better book. - 8/21/2010 1:27 PM
- James Kime said...
Look up, at the very least you can let your equally evasive and cowardly friends know you went into the lion's den and are still alive.
Why are questions so hard for you nonlordship types? You have to reword and change questions to answer them.
I asked a simple question about idolatry and conversion and it took someone TWO full blog posts to answer something I didn't ask. This is called cowardice.
I would encourage you to actually engage the debate so that you can walk away more informed. - 8/21/2010 4:52 PM
- Look up said...
LS defines repentance as a turning from sin (or thereabouts), but an unregenerate man cannot do this. Therefore as LS defines repentance, conversion must come before repentance. Therefore, repentance as defined by LS is not necessary for conversion.
Biblical repentance on the other hand involves a change of mind regarding Christ, self and sin, which an enlightened yet uncoverted man can do. He has NO power to turn FROM anything until he has turned TO Christ, all power to turn FROM sin (repentance in LS terminology, which is actually sanctification in biblical terminology) comes after conversion.
Ben I must decline your request to partake in the wickedness of gambling, but since you requested a wager, one thing we can be certain of is that the book you have recommended has not done you as much good as you believe.
I suggest you read the other one. - 8/21/2010 11:22 PM
- Ben said...
So are you saying repentance is not a gift that God can give to whomever he wishes? - 8/21/2010 11:32 PM
- Look up said...
I don't really have any friends.
I answered your question on idolatry very plainly, you just didn't like the answer.
I must say to your credit James, at least you don't even bother trying to feign humility. - 8/21/2010 11:38 PM
- Look up said...
Biblical repentance, yes, it is given in an enlightened stage. LS repentance, no, it must wait until conversion. - 8/21/2010 11:40 PM
- Ben said...
Ok, so I'm going to call "circular logic" on that but just for sake of the argument . . . as for this "enlightened stage"—is everyone enlightened?
And what is "sin (or thereabouts)"? - 8/21/2010 11:46 PM
- Look up said...
Everyone has been enlightened insofar as to know the works of God (Rom 1:18-20), yet not everyone has been enlightened to know who they really are, and why they are in need of a Saviour.
I quickly noted the LS definition of repentance as "turning from sin" (or thereabouts) I merely didn't want to waste time enlarging on yet another LS definition of repentance. - 8/22/2010 12:02 AM
- Look up said...
Ben, have you ever considered this verse?
Hos 2:16 And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi (My Husband); and shalt call me no more Baali (My Lord). - 8/22/2010 12:07 AM
- Lou Martuneac said...
I'm posting once only and for one reason alone, which is to expose James Kime's incessant, unfounded whining.
Anyone can read how a question he posted at my blog was answered by Pastor Tom Stegall fairly, comprehensively and in the context James asked it by reading,
The Difference Between the Gospel of Grace and Lordship Salvation
- James Kime said...
If anyone didn't know, Lou has a site with articles and he has written a book. I was surprised he linked to his site in one of his posts.
Lou, the question I asked was not everything I was asking. According to your own beliefs, a person would not have to stop being a muslim to be a Christian.
This is where you antiLordship folks must retreat to. You essentially cannot require ANYTHING for salvation, as that would be works. You cannot even require right theology about Christ and a turning from idols. In your twisted theology, people can still hold onto idols as condition to coming to Christ. This bastardization of the gospel is shameful. - 8/22/2010 12:13 PM
- James Kime said...
Look Up, I commend you for not doing the mafia style hit and run tactics of other nonLordship people.
As I tried to explain to you in the past and will try again here, what you think is Lordship salvation is NOT Lordship salvation.
Lou Martuneac does not understand LS. The people who are LS time and again accurately note that he does not argue against their view. That you think he refutes it is very telling about your own understanding. You have got to learn to read what a person actually says instead of what you think they are trying to say.
Let me ask you plainly this question:
Can a person be saved and also be a practicing Muslim? - 8/22/2010 12:21 PM
- Look up said...
James says:
"Let me ask you plainly this question:
Can a person be saved and also be a practicing Muslim?"
And the answer is........no.
I will go you one further:
Can a person preach the gospel while handing out the ale as this person proposes?
Lion Crest Inn
I double as Bard and Pulpiter of this tavern. I invite you to pull up a chair, enjoy a fresh piece of bread and a pint of ale, and come join us at the fire. We are talking theology and today we are talking about... - 8/22/2010 3:28 PM
- Ben said...
You put me in a difficult position. I have no desire to publicize the private communication you've sent to me explaining why you don't want to participate in this conversation here. But then you pop up and participate in the sort of rhetoric that's indistinguishable from what you claim to despise.
If you like, I'll gladly delete both your condescending remarks and this comment from me. - 8/22/2010 3:59 PM
- Ben said...
L.U., yes, I've considered that verse many times.
- Ben said...
Knock off the red herrings. Whether ale is present or not when the gospel is presented is utterly irrelevant to whether or not repentance is essential to the gospel and what repentance means. - 8/22/2010 4:06 PM
- Ben said...
Finally . . .
I'm trying to piece together your ordo salutis. Here's what I'm seeing:
1. General enlightening (Rom 1)
2. Particular enlightening
3. "Non-LS repentance"
4. Faith
5. Conversion
6. Regeneration
7. "LS repentance"/sanctification
Is that correct? I'm not intending to misrepresent you. Just trying to get it straight. Also, where does the John 1:9 "enlightening" fit in? Is it a third form of enlightening or identical to one of the other two? - 8/22/2010 4:12 PM
- James Kime said...
Look up, I sincerely mean this: thank you for directly answering my question. That is what I tried to get others to do.
Now, at what point would you say in your timeline of conversion would a person have to quit being Muslim? Would it be before or after conversion or precisely at conversion?
By the way, I am a teetotaler. I have NEVER in my life tasted alchohol. I despise what alchohol is and what it does to people. My whole "Lion Crest Inn" thought is more of the Old English (Olde English) theme. The "ale" does not have to be alchololic. In my usage of the word, it isn't. So I hope you can bury that issue forever. - 8/22/2010 4:37 PM
- Look up said...
- This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
- Look up said...
In your considering of Hos 2:16, what was your conclusion? - 8/22/2010 5:23 PM
- Look up said...
You can save the grand set-up of the order of 4,5,6, they are one simultaneous event.
I can't comment on what you are seeing, for I am not looking with your eyes.
John 1:9 involves ALL light everywhere down to the smallest of God-given thoughts, both to saved and unsaved. - 8/22/2010 5:36 PM
- Look up said...
Considering the following how do you see your raillery against those who oppose you fitting in to your repentance?
"The Christian is ready in meekness to instruct them that oppose; but there is not bitterness in his zeal, being sensible that raillery and invective are dishonourable to the cause of truth and quite unsuitable in the mouth of a sinner, who owes all that distinguishes him from the vilest of men to the free grace of God." - 8/22/2010 5:43 PM
- Look up said...
"Now, at what point would you say in your timeline of conversion would a person have to quit being Muslim? Would it be before or after conversion or precisely at conversion?"
He will quit 'believing in Allah' (I call this a practicing Muslim) the moment he believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, HOWEVER, he may continue to visibly appear to be a Muslim including participating their ordinances for quite some time. IE how long before he posted the 95 theses against the RCC was Luther saved?
Your question though reminds me of a lady that D.L. Moody was talking to who was concerned that she might have to give up the theatre if she were to become a Christian. Moody told her that she did not HAVE to give it up, but not to be surprised if she WANTED to. She came back some time later telling him that was exactly the case. She did not ever HAVE to give it up, but she found that there were better things that she could be doing.
LS is based on HAVE TO's, as compared to WANT TO's. - 8/22/2010 6:16 PM
- Look up said...
One open question for LS advocates:
Considering his persistant idolatry and associated anti-LS ways, is Solomon saved? - 8/22/2010 6:48 PM
- James Kime said...
Look Up, first, I reject your premise. I wanted to discuss/debate the issue of conversion with Lou on his own site. You were one of the readers. Lou took it upon himself to edit my posts to not include things that needed to be in what I was saying. He would not post when I tried to even rephrase. He then just would not post anything I asked. He then lied and slandered about me and continues to do so (see his current posts). Honestly, I don't care if all three people who read his site think wrongly of me. I know the truth. Even here Lou will not face a challenge. He runs and hides behind his strawman articles. He will not engage but simply will tell people to go through all of his strawman articles to find an answer. I want to engage him but he will not. You might call it railing, but it isn't. He perverts the gospel and unfortunately those 3 people read him. Even on this thread you can see his cowardice. Run and hide and then do a drive by.
- James Kime said...
Look Up, when asked if a person could be saved and a practicing muslim, you seek to redefine what a practicing muslim means. Why must you do this? This is what I am talking about when reading what people actually say. A practicing muslim is not simply someone who believes in allah. He is someone who practices islam.
According to you, a person may be saved yet still pray toward Mecca and give homage to a false god, a false view of Christ, and the rest. If that is what you actually believe, then I am even more sad than before.
Your tag about LS being about have to again demonstrates that you just do not know what you are talking about. I wish you would take the time to be informed.
What is truly amazing is that I specifically asked the question about a person who wanted to be saved but also wanted to cling to idols. That is the exact wording that Lou and Stegall spent 2 full blog posts trying to explain away. Now here you are saying the same thing I did. Stop with the cutesy gotcha phrases. Be willing to actually understand LS first. By doing so, you might be the person who in turn helps others. This could be a valuable service. - 8/22/2010 7:35 PM
- James Kime said...
Look Up, yes Solomon was saved. That you think that disproves LS is yet more evidence that you don't understand it.
Let me be clear:
I am a LS proponent and know Solomon was saved.
What to do now, what to do now
- Look up said...
You can reject the premise all you want, even your first post to me here was a railing accusation. Your defense of it shows you to be an unrepentant railer. - 8/22/2010 9:22 PM
- James Kime said...
Okay Look Up, you win. All LS are railers. That alone disproves LS. Ben, give up now. You can't argue with this stuff.
- Look up said...
"According to you, a person may be saved yet still pray toward Mecca and give homage to a false god, a false view of Christ, and the rest. If that is what you actually believe, then I am even more sad than before."
It's not just me, it's according to you as well. Solomon paid as much homage to false gods as you list above (except he had a right view of Christ) and you seem willing to count him among saved.
1) Can a Christian arab woman wear a burka? Yes.
2) Can a Christian arab man enter a mosque? Yes.
3) Can a Christian arab kneel down and pray five times a day, even in the direction of Mecca? Yes, out of former habits they may even pray in the direction of Mecca.
What determines a Christian is not what is going on on the outside of them, but rather what is going on on the inside of them.
The answers to the above questions only deal with what is going on on the outside, but then again that is the only place you are looking.
For the inside:
1) If the Christian woman just out of Islam feels more comfortable in a burka, then she is free to wear one.
2) If a formerly muslim arab were to enter a mosque, he does not leave Christ behind. There are many reasons a former muslim could enter a mosque that would appear to make him look like he is 'practicing' Islam however all real practice is of the heart. Likewise if you were to attend a funeral of a friend at an RC church. Entering the building does not you a practicing Muslim/Romanist make.
3) The pattern and or direction of prayer does not define the individual's beliefs, but rather who it is that the person believes they are praying to. That is, in their mind who exactly are they attempting to commune with. I pray a bunch of times a day, does it matter if I happen to be praying in the direction of Mecca? Not at all, what matters is who am I attempting to speak with. - 8/22/2010 9:46 PM
- Look up said...
Your lack of repentance when confronted with your own sin really shows what is in your heart. Your religion goes as deep as paint.
What are you going to do about it? - 8/22/2010 9:57 PM
- James Kime said...
Look up, once again you read what you think I said instead of what I said. I have still been talking about a practicing MUSLIM. A burqa, walking into a mosque, and the direction you pray do not in and of themselves define being a muslim. Of course, I NEVER SAID THAT. Stay focused.
Can a person be saved and be a practicing MUSLIM. In other words, can he believe in Jesus and still practice the ISLAMIC faith? My comment about praying toward Mecca would imply that praying toward Mecca was intentionally to honor the Islamic faith. Your understanding of the gospel is so skewed that a person actually NEVER has to stop believing in false gods to be saved. Jesus is one of many gods in a person's live. Jesus isn't Lord; he is buddy.
This is completely about the "inside" of a person. If a man wants Jesus in addition to being a muslim, he does not understand salvation and is still lost. By nature he is still lost. LS is entirely about the inside of a person.
Now, stop cutting and pasting Lou's emails as your own posts.
Now, about Solomon. Tell me when he was saved please. As an old man looking back on his life he penned the words:
"The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person." Ecc 12:13
So Solomon actually proves the LS model.
Here is my question to you:
Will you still perpetuate the error that Solomon disproves LS?
Btw, you accusing me of sin is not the same thing as actually sinning. - 8/22/2010 10:22 PM
- Ben said...
My rule of thumb is that when a thread degenerates into an argument over who's a sinner, who's converted, and who can wear a burqa, it's a good sign it's time for the thread to die. Rational, cool-headed interaction over issues seems improbable to emerge at this point. It's done. Thread closed.
Let's play nice next time. That means argue all you want. Stick to the issues. And answer questions. Directly. - 8/22/2010 11:21 PM

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Saskatchewan's Chief Coroner says he will order a public inquest into the death of an inmate at Saskatoon's Regional Psychiatric Centre (RPC) during the weekend, after inmate advocacy groups raised questions about the circumstances of the incident.
Kinew James, 35, was found unresponsive in her cell at the federal institution around 12:20 a.m. Sunday. She was later pronounced dead in hospital.
The Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies said other inmates have reported hearing James shouting for help and using a distress button in her cell prior to her death.
"That's what we have heard, is that she told people that she wasn't feeling good, that she was in some distress, that she needed care and attention," Sue Delanoy, executive director of the society in Saskatchewan said Wednesday.
"She pushed buttons and requested care and attention. What we're not sure of is — time will tell, I guess, from videos and autopsies — was she responded to in the appropriate time?"
The Correctional Service of Canada (CSC) is conducting a standard internal investigation into the death, alongside city police and the provincial coroner's office.
Chief Coronor Kent Stewart said an autopsy was completed on Tuesday. Although the results of toxicology and microscopy tests are still pending, it found no indications of foul play, injury or other unnatural causes, he said.
Nevertheless, Stewart said a coroner's inquest — a public hearing before a jury of six people — will be ordered once the ongoing investigations are complete.
"That's the best place to try and answer all of the unanswered questions in relation to this tragic death," he said.
James's family wants answers too.
Kim Pate, the Elizabeth Fry Societies' national executive director, said the family has been told she had a heart attack.
"They want to know what happened to their daughter and are concerned that they still don't have full answers and they're not trusting that it was just a heart attack," she said.
It's not clear how long it took staff to respond to the woman's pleas for help. Pate said on at least one occasion staff said they would ask a nurse to come in, but that was not put out as an urgent call.
James was serving time for manslaughter, assault, uttering threats, arson, mischief and obstruction of justice. Pate said the woman suffered from mental health issues and had a history of hurting herself. She was also diabetic.
"Our concern is that even though she may have died from natural causes, was it preventable if she had had medical attention and intervention earlier than she did," said Pate.
Shaun Dyer of the John Howard Society of Saskatchewan called for an inquiry to determine if policies involving inmate health and safety were followed.
"Were Ms. James' calls for assistance ignored?" Dyer said.
"Did CSC staff mute her emergency alarm? Was CSC staff equipped and adequately staffed to respond to an inmate emergency at the time of Ms. James' death? In the interest of inmate health and safety, we encourage Correctional Service Canada toward a transparent and thorough independent inquiry into this situation."
Under CSC directives regarding cell call alarms, a minimum of two staff must be present, with an additional staffer observing from a distance, before the cell can be entered. Staff arriving on the scene of a possible medical emergency are to immediately call for assistance, secure the area and initiate CPR or first aid "without delay."
Pate told CBC news that James's fellow inmates say staff approached her cell in order to turn off her call alarm, but did not respond with health care until "they think, approximately an hour or more later."
CSC policy dictates that all cell call alarms are to be treated as legitimate. An alarm is not to be disabled without a manager's authorization, and then only after staff "visually verify the well-being of the inmate." If an alarm needs to be disabled for longer than 15 minutes, staff are to check the inmate's well-being every 15 minutes and record any observations in a log book until the alarm is reactivated.
Questions about James's death come as an inquest continues in Ontario into the death of Ashley Smith.
The 19-year-old died in her cell at the Grand Valley Institution in Kitchener, Ont., in 2007 after wrapping a strip of cloth around her neck. Guards who were ordered not to intervene stood watch outside her cell.
Most of Smith's final year was spent in segregation being shunted 17 times among nine different prisons in five provinces, including the Saskatoon Regional Psychiatric Centre.


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text:
Here's a few images from the wedding of Joanne & Tim who were married at St Georges Church in Everton with the reception at the Racquet Club in Liverpool. It was a great day and everyone really enjoyed the celebrations.
Congratulations to Mr & Mrs Fletcher and best of luck in their future together.
Thanks to Kayte of http://www.imagesbykayte.co.uk/ for her help.
Venue – St Georges Church & The Racquet Club
Make-Up – Lisa Brassey, Visualize make-up
Car – Barringtons Wedding Cars


text:
Still haven't seen this episode. There must be some kind of delay
Everyone in the speculation thread was predicting vine whip, but in the episode, it seemed as though Carnivine actually learned Power Whip. So which one was it?
You really can't tell since no one calls the attack by name.
No he did not.
This was a good episode. The first part was especially good with Lucario going on a rampage and Ash and Mars' battle. It looks like they copied and pasted Pluto, he's even hunching over. One thing that I noticed was that Cyrus didn't seem angry at Mars. If that is true I like it.
Thank God for no egg. now we can finally move on....sadly I doubt it.
Team Galactic conquers all
Okay I finally seen it.
Riley was the awesomest(I know its not a word) character in the anime ever. He pulled off some DBZ tricks at the end of the episode
Team Galactic is seriously evil. Mars was going to kill everyone on the island even though she had already made a clean escape. I'm glad we finally have real villians in the anime instead of all comedic villians
i thought this was awesome one of my favorite episodes after the paul and grotle one, the two riolu secials and the hunter j ones.
also glad that the great question is finally answered and behind us unlike some i don't hate riolu and i even think it would be awesome on ash's team but not at the expense of the beyond amazing team he has right now. glad gliscor and all the others will continue to have a chance to shine.
edit ugh what a nightmare first it doesn't even post my first draft then it post my second draft 4 times blah makes me thankful to who ever invented the delete button.
Last edited by magicallypuzzled; 23rd January 2009 at 7:40 AM.
I like when Lucario and Riley uses their aura, I was cursing why Ash didn't help them 0_o
Also, the part where Piplup fell into Jun's arms is cute
Surfing through the waves, diving deep into the sea,
playing along the beach, having fun all day long.
Yeah, Ash seriously needs to learn how to use his Aura. He could've help Riley & Lucario from removing the bomb from the island. Jun should've been more involve w/ this whole Team Galactic thing instead of being spectators like TR. And TR should really stay out of major story events since they're just useless & pathetic.
-^- No, I like that TR get involved in stuff. I mean we are stuck with them no matter what, so more meaningful their existence becomes the better for me.
Cool Episode and good animation too.
I have to say Mars voice is too sexy(byebye haha), TG are doing greats jobs this saga.
I dont get why the writer remove Riolu egg? too bad, Jun deserves to get it.
Finally Jamse got some focused....
Last edited by BirdStaraptor; 23rd January 2009 at 4:15 PM.
I swear i could have wet myself with excitement when Muku.BIRD used Brave Bird! Thats the first time since Maylene's Gym Battle!
Also, the Vine/Power Whip confusion....I could've sworn I heard James say Power Whip while hugging Carnivine in the Magikarp Sub.
Kingler, my friend. No matter what, you will always remain my favourite Water type. You shouldn't have missed out on the Sinnoh League and I look forward to seeing you again, hopefully in the near future.
There you are, I see you in the back there!
Well the episode was good & i am happy that the writers didn't forget that Staravia knows Brave Bird (it was used nearly 42 episode before this in the 3rd gym battle & thats a long time). Also the execution of the move was much faster than before too.
I know that some might not feel this but i had a bit of laugh when i saw Chimchar's hand after it failed to do dig.
Also i have a feeling that Riley has a slight chance of reappearing in the future because of his involvement with TG in this episode.
Last edited by Lucario At Service; 23rd January 2009 at 3:05 PM.
Staravia used Brave Bird?! *explodes*
It's nice to finally see Carnivine doing something other than getting it's arse handed to it. And the cameos of older characters was pretty nice as well.
Riley is officially my favorite character, hands down. Sorry, J. :P Nah, scratch that. Second favorite.
This episode has to be my favorite! I can't wait until it comes to the U.S. Riley has to be one of my favorite characters! I was happy to see Brave Bird again and Reggie.
Well, this one was definately better than 110, even if it was a bit too extreme with all that aura stuff. Loved the music and the overall plot. Hirooka certainly did a great job animating it too.
This episode was nearly perfect!
The Sinnoh Character cameos were nice. (I wish we could have seen Pluto's face though...)
Homicidal Lucario was a nice touch. Riley got his butt handed to him by his own Pokemon.
Brave Bird? Staravia doing something? NO WAI!
Carnivine saves (some) of the day!
Aura: Blah.
Team Galactic is officially the best Villiainous Team in series. They actully try to kill their enemies! I loved when Mars just said "Bye-Bye" when she said the detenator off. And I never realized how much Saturn's Japanese VA makes him sound like a woman, at first I didn't even know it was him talking.
Overall: 9/10
Definitely better than the first part. I enjoyed the most Carnivine learning a new move as well as seeing Staravia use Brave Bird once again.
The episode was built in a great way but there has been better arcs in DP.
Pretty sure that was Vine Whip Carnivine used, since that magazine scan plainly said it was and it looked pretty official to me, having pictures from unaired episodes and the like.


text:
Lets assume the example of Groupon which is going to be public this year or next year.Suppose if someone invests $100Million in the company,will its valuation increase for the individual or for its shareholders after it goes public.
The second question arises from the above fact is of underwriters.Is the work of underwriters and private investor who has invested has same valuation?
To make this more clear let me take example of Facebook Inc. and Goldman Sachs deal.The deal was valuated at $50Billion with an investment of $450Million from Goldman Sachs.This relates to my question that if some private investor had invested $450Million would it be valuated at $50Billion?
Doing this will he/she will have some issues like INSIDER TRADING etc?What can he/she do to avoid this,I mean what is the solution of this issue?


text:
This hostel is very well located in the old town. The windowless room is a bit small, but we already expected that, so that was fine for us. The cleaning of the room and facilities are good. The noises from other rooms and corridors, at least if they are stuck to yours, are very hard to cope with though. It's... More
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Are you mindful as a negotiator? Ed Kopf joins Jim Blasingame to discuss the concept of mindfulness as a negotiation and management practice, and how it can help you get better management and negotiating results.
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When most people are asked what they are doing after high school, you commonly hear the name of a college or employer. However, there are a certain few, proud individuals who take another route: milit
The Salinas Union High School District mandated all high schools in the district to have two automated external defibrillators at the beginning of this school year.These defibrillators are located in
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While most American citizens take their rights and privileges for granted, those residents who move to the U.S. from other countries are faced with the hard work that goes along with the challenge of
Every Thursday morning at 7:20, students of all walks of life from grades 9 through 12 join together in room 107 (Mr. Mooney's room) for SHEF (Students Helping to Eliminate Famine) under the fearless
Every year RRHS seniors become state legislators and senators in a two day mock legislative marathon on campus. The bills presented reveal the innermost thoughts and desires of students. Only a few p
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Leading America's Newsrooms


text:
So these are my builds. Support "Healer" Guardian with whom I try to keep my party's health up and provide them with buffs what give them regeneration, stability dmg redu. Or in the other build I run around with the Spirit bow for more aoe healing and Cond removal.
I am fairly new to the Guardian but with my knowledge of past MMO's I figured that If I am giving regeneration and healing around I should stack on Healing Power, but I am unsure should I be more "Stout" and go full Knight for Toughness and power so Maybe I am providing smaller healing and be there and try to take the hits in.
I am rotating my secondary weapons from Mace/Shield to Scepter Focus or Mace/Focus.


text:
Rachel Evans Morrison, 85, of 2 Empress Drive, Greenville, S.C., formerly of Bradley Park, Anderson, S.C., passed away Wednesday, December 5, 2012, at the Sterling House in Greer, S.C.
Born September 7, 1927, in Pomeroy, Ohio, she was the daughter of the late Clarence and Charlotte Thomas Evans. Rachel was a graduate of Holzer Hospital and was a Pediatric Registered Nurse before becoming a faithful wife and full-time mother to her three sons. She was also a member of St. John's United Methodist Church in Anderson.
Surviving are her husband, Carlos T. Morrison of the home; three sons, John Morrison (Michelle) of Greenville, Richard Morrison (Jandell) of Winston Salem and Norman Morrison (Sheri) of Taylors; five granddaughters, Magee, Lacey, Macaulay, Caroline Morrison and Hillary (Clif) Salter; one great-grandchild on the way; sister, Clara Haskins of Gallipolis, Ohio, and her beloved dog, Bootsie.
Funeral service will be held at 2 p.m. Saturday at Sullivan-King Mortuary with Rev. Dan Batson officiating. Burial will follow at Oaklawn Memorial Gardens. The family will receive friends from 1-2 p.m. Saturday prior to the service at Sullivan-King Mortuary, 3205 N Hwy 81, Anderson, S.C. The family is at their respective homes.
In lieu of flowers, memorials may be made to St. John's United Methodist Church, 515 S McDuffie St., Anderson, S.C. 29624.


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Vegas Vengeance - The Group Activity Bucket List
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Vegas Vengeance - The Group Activity Bucket List
March 28, 2011, 03:50:16 pm »
Now, I'm sure that we all have our own ideas of things we might like to do as individuals while we're out in Vegas but I've been putting some skullsweat into a few ideas for things that might serve as an activity that could be done in groups, perhaps as the first night's gathering, a evening's entertainment during the week, a lunchtime/daytime visit or just some fun times around restaurant table.
I can't do tables as well as Leigh so I'll just give each one a heading, a short description (probably cribbed from their website) and a perhaps a link.
Feel free to pile on with suggestions if you've been there before or, if not, ask questions about the things that get posted.
I'll start with a couple of suggestions for the first night the group really comes together...these are all at Harrahs so you won't have too far to stagger to your room (if that's where you staying).
Harrahs - Duelling Pianos
9pm - 2am, Tue-Sat
Just when you thought everything in Las Vegas costs a fortune, then you have not seen The Dueling Pianos Show at Harrah's Casino. Imagine a gorgeous young female accomplished piano player who is also a stand up comedian and one of the best audience participation entertainer. . . now multiply that by "2" because you are about to see the only all-female and identical twin dueling piano show in the world!
Kimberley & Tamara Pinegar
The Dueling Pianos Show is an all-request, audience participation event that happens nightly. The Twins, Kimberley & Tamara Pinegar, since age six have mastered the piano. You can hear The Twins play their baby grand pianos and share with the audience favorite songs from the 60's to today's hits. Whether you like country western, Aerosmith, Andrew Sisters or AC/DC The Twins will entertain you with amazing quick wit humor and the unique ability to keep the audience involved for hours.
Don't misunderstand, because each show is different and the show ranges from R rated, depending on the audience and The Twins attitude, all the way to a very wholesome atmosphere. The Piano Bar has an age minimum, 21.
It is amazing how The Twins balance the audience participation, music and comedy at a high pitch hour after hour. This is the type of show that you can watch/participate and then realize that hours have gone by since you first sat down and you have been to one of the best shows you ever saw. And if all that was not enough, the show is FREE!
Harrahs - Toby Keith's Bar & Grill
11:30am - 2am Sun - Thurs
11:30am - 3am Fri-Sat
Bar and Grill
Live Music Nightly 9pm - 2am
amed after one of Toby Keith's hit singles, I Love This Bar & Grill at Harrah's gives country fans a place to eat, drink and kick up their heels.
Keith's stamp is on everything in the bar from the memorabilia on the walls to the flat screen TVs continuously playing his music videos.
The decor is all-American red, white and blue and the centerpiece of the room is a large guitar-shaped bar with a stainless steel top.
Sexy cowgirl-attired bartenders serve up specialty drinks named for some of Keith's biggest hits. Try the Who's Your Daddy Margarita, which features a float of Guinness beer or the Whiskey Girl -- a tasty concoction of Jack Daniels, amaretto, pineapple juice, orange juice and grenadine. Specialty drinks average $9-$10.
Of course, country and blues music is always playing in the backgroud at I Love This Bar & Grill. In addition, for those that feel the need to two-step, live country and rock bands, hand-picked by Keith, perform nightly from 9 p.m. to 2 a.m.
Harrahs - Carnaval Court (Outdoor)
11:30am - 2am Sun - Thurs
11:30am - 3am Fri-Sat
Bar and Grill
Live Music Nightly 9pm - 2am
Early bands perform Sunday - Thursday from 1 p.m. - 6 p.m. and Friday and Saturday from 1 p.m. - 7 p.m.
Late bands perform Sunday - Thursday from 6:45 p.m. - 12 a.m. and Friday and Saturday from 7:45 p.m. - 1 a.m.
DJ "T" spins from midnight - 2 a.m. Tuesday and Wednesday and from 1 a.m. - 3 a.m. Friday and Saturday.
Friday & Saturday: Cook E Jarr performs from 6 p.m. - 8 p.m.
Enjoy casual dining at the liveliest outdoor venue on the Strip! Choose from a variety of delicious items from the Pepper Rose menu. While you're dining, enjoy live music, great drink specials and flair bartenders for the ultimate in entertainment!
Boasting some of the world's top flair bartenders, Carnaval Court was voted one of the best flair bars in the country. Live bands take the Carnaval Court stage daily performing pop, jazz, beach music and more.
Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 06:11:07 pm by Paulie_D
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Re: APAT Vegas Vengeance - The Group Activities Bucket List
Reply #1 on:
March 30, 2011, 12:55:54 pm »
OK...that should have whetted your appetites...
Lets move on to a few suggestions for a lunchtime or evening group raid. Not surprisingly, this is centred around beer, music and food.
Monte Carlo - The Pub
Sunday - Thursday: 11:00 a.m. - 11:00 p.m.
Friday - Saturday: 11:00 .am. - 3:00 a.m.
Bar and Grill
Duelling Pianos: Thursday - Saturday 9pm - 2am
Casual yet stylishly contemporary, The Pub is your go-to spot at the Monte Carlo for great food, beer, sports, and an all-around good time. But don't let the name "The Pub" lead you to believe this is an ordinary watering hole. Pull up a seat at the extensive bar, backed by a mesmerizing array of large kegs, and choose from more than 200 beers on tap. Or if you're not quite in beer mode, you can opt for one of The Pub's famous adult milkshakes such as "The Luck of the Irish" or "Peppermint Snowflake."
There's an extensive new menu of seriously good food to satisfy your hunger. Juicy burgers, fresh mango chicken quesadillas, grilled fish, and more make The Pub a Las Vegas dining destination in its own right.
With your appetite well taken care of, you can now focus on your entertainment. Big screen sports abound here, so if there's a game on, this is the place to watch it. If sports aren't your thing, there's something for you as well.
Every Thursday through Saturday evening from 9:00 p.m. to 2:00 a.m., let the music take over with Fuel the Duel. A crowd pleaser, you'll find yourself singing along to all the right notes. Or dance the night away with the house DJ on special nights. Whatever the moment, you'll find there's always something exciting going on. To quote the manager, "We'll throw a party for just about anything!"
Bill's Gamblin' Hall - Fat Elvis or Karaoke
Mon/Tues/Thurs/ Fri: 3 pm, 5 pm & 6:30 pm
Karaoke at Bill's: Sunday - Wednesday, 8 pm - 2 am.
Guests looking to "Shake, Rattle and Roll" to sounds of the King won't want to miss award-winning Elvis tribute artist Pete "Big Elvis" Vallee who has been performing at Bill's Gamblin' Hall & Saloon for the past eight years. His free show includes a vast catalogue of Elvis hits spanning rock, country, gospel, R&B and pop music.
Vallee embraces all of the endearing qualities of the King during his heyday in Vegas. His incredible voice has been compared to the King since Vallee was 13 years old. In January 2010 Vallee was named one of "Time" Magazine's Top 10 Elvis Impersonators in a list compiled in honor of the King's birthday. Johnny Cash was also named on the list.
The Big Elvis Show is one of the only all-Elvis acts in town and the longest-running Elvis tribute show on the Las Vegas Strip.
Hard Rock (Opposite) - Hofbrauhaus (Off-Strip)
Sunday - Thursday, 11 a.m.- 11 p.m.;
Friday - Saturday, 11 a.m. to midnight.
American Version of a German Beer Hall
If you've been to Munich the name probably sounds familiar. Hofbräuhaus is a staple of Bavarian culture stretching more than 400 years. Having once only been reserved for royalty, it has survived countless wars and even once saved the city from being burned down, thanks to its beer.
Vegas' version of the Hofbräuhaus is an exact replica of its German counterpart, with much of the building materials imported directly from Germany. While you may admire the outside of the building, it is inside where the true beauty lies.
The restaurant is a replica of the Die Schwemme, the beer hall that is considered the heart of the original location. The tables, chairs and even the hand-painted accents on the ceiling are what you would see in Germany.
Live bands play nightly on the stage here, but not the local bands you can find all over town. Hofbräuhaus flies in German bands every four weeks and as Klaus Gastager, Hofbräuhaus vice president, put it, "They play seven nights a week whether they're too sick or too drunk."
And after watching the bands play for a few hours, you may wonder how they make it to the stage nightly.
There is a beer garden located just past the beer hall that is similar to the German version, only indoors. Vegas summers are vastly different than Germany's and there's not enough beer in the world to change that.
While the décor may be enough to attract lovers of German culture or history buffs, it is the beer and the party that fills up every seat in the house almost nightly. The beer here isn't just Beck's like many other German bars, but the actual beer you get at the German Hofbräuhaus.
The original location was the starting point for the German Beer Purity Law, which states that all German beers must be made without additives or artificial ingredients. In layman's terms, that means this is the purest beer you can get anywhere. Additionally, the beer straight from the taps isn't pasteurized, as most imported beers are, which can change the taste.
Beyond the beer itself, there is a true German menu with the tastiest soft pretzels you'll ever have (another item straight from Germany), schnitzel, sauerbraten, assorted meats and cheeses and an apfelstrudel that will make the truest Americans forget about apple pie.
Beer wenches sport authentic dress and pack a surprise when you order a shot of Jägermeister.
Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 06:09:10 pm by Paulie_D
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Re: APAT Vegas Vengeance - The Group Activities Bucket List
Reply #2 on:
March 30, 2011, 01:08:49 pm »
Speaking of appetites....I think better with a full stomach.
I've been to both the Hash House and Maggiano's and they both do excellent food at very reasonable prices for very generous portions.
As for The Range...I love a last night full blown steak meal and budgets get ignored. I've been itching to try this out.
Imperial Palace - Hash House A go Go
Sunday - Thursday: 7:00am-11:00pm
Friday - Saturday: 7:00am-2:00am
Restaurant...you have to visit.
"Twisted farm food" is what happens when homestyle Indiana favorites meet the excess of the Strip. That's exactly what you'll find at Hash House A Go Go in its third location, right here at the center of the fun, Imperial Palace Las Vegas.
Famous for creative menu offerings, oversized portions, unique presentation and flavorful dishes using only the freshest ingredients, Hash House A Go Go is home to the city's best breakfasts, plus one pound stuffed burgers and colossal salads at lunch, and a variety of innovative dishes at dinner.
Lunch offerings include sandwiches like the Kokomo, with griddled meatloaf, roasted tomato and smoked mozzarella on old fashioned milk bread; one pound burgers stuffed with goodies like apple smoked bacon and mashed potato; and salads like the Big O Caesar and warm spinach salad.
At dinner, your choices include Andy's Crispy Indiana Style Hand Hammered Pork Tenderloin, served with griddled mozzarella, caramelized onions, fresh spinach, Portobello mushrooms, house charred tomato and bar b' que cream; Sage Fried Chicken breasts served on a bacon waffle tower with hot maple reduction and fried leeks; grilled swordfish with crispy shrimp and fresh tomato roof and an 18 oz. bone-in ribeye steak with maple sage garlic butter.
Decadent desserts like the Chocolate Snickers Bread Pudding and a drink menu renowned for its mimosas and Bloody Marys plus freshly squeezed juices and the house favorite Kiwi Watermelon Lemonade round out Hash House A Go Go's offerings.
Fashion Show Mall - Maggiano's Little Italy
Mon-Sun: 11:00 AM-11:00 PM
Italian Restaurant...huge portions at very reasonable prices when I visited a couple of years back.
Maggiano's specializes in creating generous portions of authentic Italian-American cuisine, served family-style. Our menu is large and varied, offering a great selection of homemade pastas, signature salads, prime steaks, fresh fish and memorable desserts.
Maggiano's Las Vegas location, with our 325-seat dining room and banquet facility for up to 200 guests, is conveniently located at the Fashion Show Mall on world famous Las Vegas Boulevard.
Whether for lunch or dinner, for social gathering or for work functions, you get more of everything at Maggiano's.
Harrahs - The Range Steakhouse
Mon-Sun: 5PM -10:30 PM
Restaurant: Steak and Seafood
You'll be treated to an outstanding dining experience at The Range Steakhouse. Succulent steaks, prime rib, seafood and poultry entrees are presented in an intimate setting that boasts a spectacular view of the famed Las Vegas Strip.
Grilled-to-order steaks come in all sizes at The Range Steakhouse, from the 8-ounce filet to the 24-ounce porterhouse. The slow-roasted prime rib, with natural au jus and fresh horseradish, is served in a 12- or 16-ounce cut.
The Range also presents delicious seafood items, such as grilled Atlantic salmon fillets, swordfish steaks, giant shrimp scampi, twin lobster tails and Alaskan king crab legs, which are available as an entree (a full pound) or a side order (a half pound). In fact, guests may order any seafood item as a side to a steak entree and create a surf and turf meal of their own design. Other mouth-watering entrees include free-range grilled chicken, blackened rib-eye chops or the double-cut pork loin chops.
Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 03:09:46 pm by Paulie_D
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Re: APAT Vegas Vengeance - The Group Activities Bucket List
Reply #3 on:
March 30, 2011, 01:09:03 pm »
Las Vegas Roller Coasters & Thrill Rides
Some of the best thrill rides and roller coasters in the world are in the Vegas area. In fact, almost all of these rides are at local hotels. Here's a rundown of roller coasters in Las Vegas.
Not my cup of tea but a last longer could be entertaining.
Stratosphere Hotel & Casino
First they put a roller coaster on top, which was the highest roller coaster in the world. Then they put up the Big Shot, which accelerates you straight up as the whole world seems to disappear below you. Then they built a ride that put you over the edge. Then they built another ride which put you over the edge, but that one actually points you towards the ground and dangles you. How were they gonna top that?
Well, they did. The newest ride has you jumping off the tower, "skydiving" 108 stories to the ground. God. Damn! There's no paraCrute, you travel along zip lines which have a braking system. The only downside is the price -- $100 per jump. (If that's out of your budget then Insanity (below) will give you almost as good a scare for only $12.).
Website Link
This is a spinning ride that dangles you over the edge. Never tried it. Maybe it was the screams and the look of sheer terror on the faces of the riders as I watched them from the observation deck, or maybe it's just that I didn't care to be dangled a sixth of a mile from the ground that day. Anyway, if you want to be scared, this is your ticket.
X Scream
This one is a see-saw thingie that dangles you over the edge. It doesn't go as far over the edge as Insanity, and you definitely feel more enclosed and grounded, so I imagine it's not nearly as terrifying. Still, it's pretty scary if you're scared of heights. One nice touch is that on one of the runs after your cars get to the edge of the platform, the whole arm stutters and drops the angle even more, making you think for a second that the thing broke and you're about to hurtle towards your death, ha ha.
Big Shot
This is the one that made the Stratosphere famous. You're strapped into a chair with your legs dangling, and then they shoot you straight up the tower's steeple, 160 feet in two seconds, at four G's. Then they freefall you so you get negative G's, then shoot you up again, etc. If this ride started at ground level it would be scary, but add to that the fact that you're a fifth of a mile from the ground and it's terrifying. As you're going up you worry that the brakes will fail and you'll go straight off the steeple and land down the strip at the Sahara.
Downtown: Fremont Street
Fremont Flightlines
The newest ride, opening in October 2010. Ride along a zipline right under the canopy of the Fremont Street Experience -- 800 feet at speeds up to 35mph. Here's a review from one of the first people to ride it. The price is $15 before 6pm, and $20 after 6pm. Tip: Book online or by phone, and then start at the front of the line when you get there. A picture is worth a thousand words, so see the video at right.
Here's a review from a friend of mine..
There were about 6 of us there, one of the group got turned away for being over weight, they have a strict weight tolerance, thankfully I am now down to below their maximum allowed weight (by 1/2 a lb clothed), I actually had to take my phone and keys out to make weight.
The setup is pretty nice, you go to their office, step on the scale (everyone got weighed), sign the waiver that no one ever reads, and get your wristband. After the office, you hop on an elevator and go up to the top of the garage, where they have a queue for the riders. There were not too many people hitting up the zipline that afternoon, and the wait was pretty short.
After the queue you get to the harness station. They pretty much have a one size fits all harness, and let's just say they're not really built to fit a 6' guy...SNUG was an understatement!!! After narrowing the chance that I'll ever have children at the harness station it was time to zip.
This was the hardest part of the entire thing, you walk out onto a platform at the top of the scaffolding, yes you are hooked in for safety, but having a mild fear of heights, the walk was not the most fun. They then latch you onto the line, and tell you where to hold your hands (important so you don't hit yourself in the face when you stop), and they send you on your way.
The Zipline isn't really that long, but I will say it was a RUSH...at the end they take your photo, as well as a few that they take while you're on the line (I was turned around at the camera so it wasn't a good photo), and they do a nice job of jacking up the photo price!
New York, New York
Manhattan Express
Casino Player magazine says: "At two minutes and 45 seconds, it's easily the longest-lasting ride in Las Vegas. Top speed is 67 mph and the biggest drop is 144 feet, but what keeps everyone coming back for more is the insane 540-degree spiral, not to mention the fact that it takes place over a pretty solid replica of New York Harbor. If this ride doesn't put you in a "New York State of Mind", nothing will."
Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 03:55:14 pm by Paulie_D
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Re: APAT Vegas Vengeance - The Group Activity Bucket List
Reply #4 on:
March 30, 2011, 01:17:57 pm »
I know this is going to be a weird question...but can we have the odd place that isn't centred around alcohol...mainly cos I don't drink.
Cheers mate, will still be in attendance at most of these though.
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Re: APAT Vegas Vengeance - The Group Activity Bucket List
Reply #5 on:
March 30, 2011, 01:21:43 pm »
Quote from: sharplea on March 30, 2011, 01:17:57 pm
I know this is going to be a weird question...but can we have the odd place that isn't centred around alcohol...mainly cos I don't drink.
Of course...they are coming....that's what the 'Reserved' sections are for...the odd restaurant suggestion, rollercoaster last longer, re-enactment of the fountain scene of Oceans 11...you know the boring stuff.
My thoughts were that, as a group, we are kind of centred around having a night out so that's where I started. You'll notice that most of the suggestions also include a restaurant.
Like I said, if anyone want to add some research and suggest something...I'll play along.
Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 01:31:24 pm by Chipaccrual
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Re: Vegas Vengeance - The Group Activity Bucket List
Reply #6 on:
March 30, 2011, 01:50:43 pm »
Bill's Gamblin' Hall - Fat Elvis Karaoke = Winner
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Re: Vegas Vengeance - The Group Activity Bucket List
Reply #7 on:
March 30, 2011, 02:07:57 pm »
Quote from: PHIL_TC on March 30, 2011, 01:50:43 pm
Bill's Gamblin' Hall - Fat Elvis Karaoke = Winner
write up your street..... i hope you do a good elvis...ill be waiting to here it... what colour is your hair going to be
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Re: Vegas Vengeance - The Group Activity Bucket List
Reply #8 on:
March 30, 2011, 02:41:48 pm »
In The Aria, Cirque du Soleil have "Elvis" the show which is absolutely superb. A sort of Elvis meets Dodgeball meets Spiderman sort of thing. The artists are simply fantastic and well worth seeing. About £100 per show.
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Re: Vegas Vengeance - The Group Activity Bucket List
Reply #9 on:
March 30, 2011, 03:19:10 pm »
The Imperial Palace also has Karaoke.
Imperial Palace Karaoke Club is conveniently located on the third floor next to the Sports Bar (accessible from the Strip)
9 p.m. Sunday - Thursday
10 p.m. Friday - Saturday
It's OK....but nothing special. I preferred Bills as it has better seating and is on the casino floor.
Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 03:20:47 pm by Paulie_D
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Re: Vegas Vengeance - The Group Activity Bucket List
Reply #10 on:
March 30, 2011, 03:21:10 pm »
Added a couple of eateries near the top.
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Re: Vegas Vengeance - The Group Activity Bucket List
Reply #11 on:
March 30, 2011, 03:31:53 pm »
How about a trip downtown?
I've only been once for a couple of hours,any suggestions?
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Re: Vegas Vengeance - The Group Activity Bucket List
Reply #12 on:
March 30, 2011, 04:00:29 pm »
Quote from: gallowgate on March 30, 2011, 03:31:53 pm
How about a trip downtown?
I've only been once for a couple of hours,any suggestions?
It's worth seeing the Fremont Street Experience if you are there but I wouldn't make a special trip.
If a group wanted to head down to Fremont Street one evening I wouldn't try and dissuade them but it's really just a bunch of tired casinos (excepting perhaps the Nugget).
Casinos they can see on the strip...I don't know of anything I would make a special trip just to see....but if anyone knows different...
Oh, I forgot Hogs and Heifers...never been but I hear it gets lively....they based Coyote Ugly on it...but cleaned it up for the movie.
Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 04:43:50 pm by Paulie_D
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Re: Vegas Vengeance - The Group Activity Bucket List
Reply #13 on:
March 30, 2011, 04:01:04 pm »
Added Rollercoasters and Thrillrides...well some of them.
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Re: Vegas Vengeance - The Group Activity Bucket List
Reply #14 on:
March 30, 2011, 04:32:22 pm »
Top top work Paulie, I will give this the love it deserves when I get home.
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Ride-hailing apps offer new way to get around town
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Snapshots of Sandy: Group restores victims' photos
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Of all the images of Superstorm Sandy's destruction, the ones that linger for Florence Catania are the torn, stained pictures that hung on her walls.
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Oracle will buy Acme Packet Inc., which makes equipment for telecommunications companies, for about $2.1 billion.
UK sends hand-held helicopter drones to war zone
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NBCUniversal gathers cable channels under 1 exec
02/04/2013 3:22pm
NBCUniversal has united its cable channels under the command of long-time executive Bonnie Hammer, leaving Lauren Zalaznick, who previously controlled Bravo, Oxygen, Style and Sprout, to focus on innovation and emerging technology initiatives.
Jamaica breaks ground on rare-earth project
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Foxconn to widen scope of union elections
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Check out Relay Recordings on Bandcamp:
Dave Rempis/Tim Daisy Midwest Tour
May 16th :: Elastic Arts Foundation – 2830N Milwaukee Ave 9pm
May 17th :: Dubuqe, IA Erenol -285 Main St., Dubuque, IA.
May 18th :: Milwaukee, WI – The Sugar Maple -441E Lincoln Ave Milwaukee, WI 9:30pm
May 19th :: The 411 Club / Kalamazoo, MI 411N Westnedge
01 JUN :: San Antonio | The Warehouse
02 JUN :: Dallas | Rubber Gloves
03 JUN :: Austin | The Owl
04 JUN :: Austin | School workshop/concert
05 JUN :: Austin | Epistrophy Arts
Saturday June 8th :: The Russ Johnson Quartet @ The Jazz Estate 2423N Murray Ave Milwaukee WI 9:30
Saturday June 15th :: Mallettopia :: Jason Adaisewicz/Michael Zerang/Tim Daisy @ Experimental Sound Studio http://www.experimentalsoundstudio.org/
Thursday June 20th :: Nate Wooley + Paul Lytton + Tim Daisy @ Elastic Arts Foundation 2830N Milwaukee Ave 9pm
Friday June 21st :: Dave Rempis + Terrie Ex + Tim Daisy Trio @ Okka Fest 5 The Sugar Maple 441E Lincoln Ave, Milwaukee WI
Tim Daisy Solo Tour :: June 29th – July 7
Saturday June 29th :: Solo Concert @ The KCAC Art Center, Kalamazoo, MI
Sunday June 30th :: Solo Concert @ Robinwood Concert House, Toledo, OH http://toledobellows.wordpress.com/robinwood-concert-house/
Monday July 1st :: Solo Concert @ The Comet 4579 Hamilton Ave Cininnati, OH (with guest David McDonnel)
Wednesday July 3rd :: Solo Concert @ Raleigh, NC With Guests Jeb Bishop + Carrie Shull (details tba)
Friday July 5th :: Solo Concert @ Columbia, SC Conundrum Music Hall 626 Meeting Street
Saturday Juy 6th :: Solo Concert @ Knoxville, TN (details tba)
Sunday July 7th :: Solo Concert @ Griffin's Modern Motel 199E Loudon Ave – Lexington, KY
Wednesday July 17 :: Jason Stein + Tim Daisy (special guest Tomeka Reid on cello for the 2nd set! ) @ The Hideout 1354 W Wabansia Ave
Thursday July 18th :: Peter Maunu -guitar + Jim Baker – ARP synthesizer, piano Tim Daisy :: drums @ The Comfort Station 2579N Milwaukee Ave 7:30pm
Sunday July 21st :: Solo Concert @ Woodland Pattern Books 720E Locust Street MIlwaukee WI 7pm
July 24th – 27th Kyle Bruckmann's Wrack — West Coast Tour
Saturday July 27th – San Francisco, CA| premiere of …Awaits Silent Tristero's Empire, made possible by the Doris Duke Charitable Foundation through Chamber Music America's New Jazz Works program | Outsound New Music Summit | Community Music Center, 544 Capp St SF | 8:00
Sunday July 28th – Los Angeles, CA (details soon)
Monday July 29th - Sacramento, CA | …Awaits Silent Tristero's Empire, made possible by the Doris Duke Charitable Foundation through Chamber Music America's New Jazz Works program | Nebraska Mondays Creative Music & Jazz Series | Luna's Cafe, 1414 16th St, Sacramento | 7:30
Saturday August 17th :: The Margots CD Release Concert @ The Sugar Maple – Milwaukee, WI
Sunday August 18th :: The Margots CD Release Concert @ The Hideout 1354W Wabansia Ave Chicagio, IL
Thursday August 22 :: Cameron Pfiffner's Marco Polo @ Millenium Park Chicago
Thursday August 29th :: The Aram Shelton Quartet @ Elastic Arts 2830N Milwaukee Ave 9pm
Saturday August 31 :: The Engines @ The Chicago Jazz Festival (details soon)
Sunday September 1 :: The Rempis Percussion Quartet @ The Hungry Brain 2319W Belmont Ave 10pm
September 5-7 :: Ken Vandermark + Tim Daisy Duo @ Hopscotch Festival – Raleigh, NC (details soon)
September 9-19th Rempis Percussion Quartet EU Tour
November 11 – 24 Resonance Ensemble EU Tour