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TELL US: Should Massachusetts Gun Control Laws be Loosened?
A Massachusetts gun owners group is lobbying for passage of a bill that would confer lifetime gun licenses — no renewals necessary.
Way too much red tape.
That's the complaint of the Gun Owners' Action League of Massachusetts, a group that is urging passage of a law that would abolish the requirement of having to renew a gun permit every six years, according to the Boston Herald.
For comparison, Massachusetts vehicle drivers' licenses need to be renewed every five years.
But the league says local police cannot keep up with timely gun permit renewals, and legitimate gunowners go license-less until the cops get time to do the paperwork.
The law now allows 40 days for turning around license applications.
In Boston, almost 1,000 people have applied for gun permits so far this year, with waits running about 10 weeks, the Herald quotes police spokeswoman Cheryl Fiandaca as saying.
The gun owners group is lobbying for a return to lifetime licenses; that a license gets pulled only if laws are broken, according to the Herald story.
The six-year gun permitting is part of a law passed in 1998 that resulted in Massachusetts having among the strictest gun control laws in the U.S.
According to a gun control lobbying group, the Violence Policy Center, Massachusetts also has the lowest gun death rate in the nation.
But still, the law requires a 40-day turnaround. So what do you think is the right course of action: return to the days of life-long gun licenses and make life easier for both harried cops and law-abiding gunowners? Lengthen the license turnaround time and not hold the gunowner accountable if s/he uses the gun during that turnaround time? Keep the pressure on and keep things as they are, to stifle the easy use of guns? Tell us what you think in the comments section below.
Bob Gray
8:25 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Absolutely keep the pressure on! This is a good way to keep check on the ability of people with guns to handle them properly and make sure they are in a good physical and mental state. We check periodically to see if people are fit to drive a car... handling a gun properly is even more important!!
John Griswold
11:02 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
There's no need to demonstrate proficiency when renewing, so that point is moot. I don't mind the requirement to renew, but if the turnaround time exceeds the 40 day state limit, both the police and I are forced into criminal behavior, and there is simply no point in that - it's just paperwork.
Jason Sawyer
1:27 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
"This is a good way to keep check on the ability of people with guns to handle them properly and make sure they are in a good physical and mental state."
The only thing a renewal verifies is that the renewer's check doesn't bounce.
Paul Fehrenbach Jr.
8:53 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
We have the most restrictive gun laws in the country. Every time you buy a gun, your fingerprints are run through the database and a call is made to clear the sale with the Firearms Record Bureau to make sure you have committed no crimes. If you are pulled over and your drivers license is run through the computer, all your gun permits are listed. Renewing a permit every 6 years does nothing to show a person still has the ability to handle a gun properly. Range time and practice does that. There are many checks on whether a person has committed a crime and needs to have their license revoked. Police departments are inundated with renewals and new applications. This is not a good use of their time. Ask your local issuing officer about his current workload on licenses.
As an NRA Certified Firearms instructor, I have the discretion to deny a course completion certificate to a student I deem incompetent mentally or physically. Everything BUT the renewal process "Keeps the pressure on".
Paul Fehrenbach Jr.
Parson Weems
9:17 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
How many times have you denied a certificate? Just wondering here...
Bryan McGonigle2
8:54 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
It seems to me that if you apply for a renewal before your current license is expires and the police can't find the time to "process" the renewal, you should automatically get a temporary license at the time of renewal.
Parson Weems
9:25 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
One thing to do would be to hire more police, or some clerical staff at minimum, to help with the flood of deadly weapon license renewals. Of course that would likely require more taxes and, naturally, more of those dreaded public employees. The good news is, if this were done, then the citizenry can be better assured of being properly armed in the face of the threat inevitably raised by the fact of more public employees.
Jason Sawyer
1:53 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
One would think, but that's not how it's done today. Today if a legal gun owner applies for a renewal and the renewal takes longer than the legally defined 40 day maximum, the (formerly) legal gun owner, through no fault of his own, becomes an automatic felon. Where is the justice in that?
9:01 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
I've always believed that as Americans we have the right to own guns but with every right comes a corresponding responsibility. My plan would be to allow the possession of guns but there is no need for a citizen NOT in the national guard/reserves/state militia to own automatic weapons or armor piercing bullets etc. When you get a gun you should have to take a test, just like when you get your drivers license, your mental state should be considered, The gun should be test fired and a bullet sample should be kept on file, the gun owner should be responsible for his or her weapon at all times and a stolen weapon should be reported to police immediately.
The thing most people forget is that the 2nd Amendment states "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." - " A well regulated militia" is the key to this amendment, the framers meant this right to be a way for ordinary citizens to protect the nation by possessing firearms as part of a militia, like the Minutemen. In today's society guns are used for sport, recreation and personal defense. Why anyone would need to hunt with automatic weapons and armor piercing bullets is a mystery to me. Maybe the deer have learned how to make Kevlar?
9:34 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Amor piercing bullets? Please define because pretty much every rifle caliber in existence is amor piercing. This is an excuse to place broad discretionary and ill conceived regulations into the hands of the US AG. Don't believe me, the authority to regulate so called armor piercing bullets was created in 1968 and was specifically applied to handgun ammo only by congress. Please tell me the number of police officers wearing vests killed by handguns with rifle calibers or composite makeup ever? You can't because it's apparently 0. No one can point to a cop killed by such a bullet through their vest. These supposed cop killer, teflon coated bullets aren't "armor piercing' nor are they particularly deadly. Any coating is to ease wear on the barrel and has no effect on the terminal side of the ballistics equation (ie; when the bullet hits something).
People have to stop getting their knowledge of guns from Hollywood, Law & Order, etc; because it's all BS. Even gun owners are woefully under educated on the subject because there was a movement 20 years ago to fracture the "gun lobby" as a movement that was partially successful.
10:04 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Armor Piercing Bullets are defines as having a full metal jacket rather than just a lead slug. The point is not how many Police were killed by armor piercing bullets the point is that there is NO need for them in Sport/Hunting or personal defense. And as far as I can find at least 40 US police officers were killed by gunfire this year alone. So tell me why do YOU need to own armor piercing bullets? And finally I got my knowledge of weapons while serving in the USCG which is not hollywood, I received training from experts in the field. Oh and just to make matters more clear here is what Wikipedia says about Armor Piercing Bullets: Armor-piercing rifle and pistol cartridges are usually built around a penetrator of hardened steel, tungsten, or tungsten carbide, and such cartridges are often called 'hard-core bullets'.
John Patch
10:10 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Automatic weapons are heavily regulated by the feds already in this country. You CAN NOT just go and buy or possess a fully automatic weapon without jumping through many hoops first. And probably 5% of anyone who applies for a class III license to possess full auto weapons actually gets approved for one.
10:14 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
> Armor Piercing Bullets are defines as having a full metal jacket rather than just a lead slug.
Not even close. A FMJ is a copper jacket and has no AP potential. Bullets shot from modern rifle cartridges would fall apart without a jacket if they were just lead without a jacket.
> The point is not how many Police were killed by armor piercing bullets the point is that there is NO need for them in Sport/Hunting or personal defense. And as far as I can find at least 40 US police officers were killed by gunfire this year alone. So tell me why do YOU need to own armor piercing bullets?
What need do you have speaking on this public forum??? The nice thing about a right (and freedom in general) is I don't have to prove my need to exercise it, the government needs to prove how banning it will be effective. Oh, and you quote the number of cops killed this year but not the ones killed by AP. Why? I am pretty sure because most, if not all of those cops were shot with slow moving .380 ACP, .25 ACP or other very basic and sometimes very old handgun calibers since that is the crap gang bangers use.
> And finally I got my knowledge of weapons while serving in the USCG which is not hollywood, I received training from experts in the field.
Then you will know that M822 is not AP but is M193 with a steel base. Yet, M822 fits the definition you quoted in the wiki but alas is not considered AP by the AGs office.
10:23 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Daniel, true armor-piercing bullets are not available to civilians.
Funny how you quote wikipedia but you don't read the text: 'Rifle armor-piercing ammunition generally carries its hardened penetrator within a copper or cupronickel jacket, similar to the jacket which would surround lead in a conventional projectile.'
You keep spouting about the full metal jacket but don't understand that it is the hardened penetrator what makes an armor-piercing bullet. Read this again: 'similar to the jacket which would surround lead in a conventional projectile.'
Now since you think civilians can own armor-piercing ammunition, please direct me to a store that sells it to civilians.
10:26 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
@terraformer - Sometimes you seem to know what you are talking about but you seem to only want to state the parts that suit your argument. You say that you do not need AP rounds but as an American you have a RIGHT to them, never saw that section of the constitution myself. The training I received was with an M9 pistol, M16A2 rifle as well as limited training with shotguns and older military rifle variations.
10:39 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
No @Daniel Vassily, I am not selectively arguing points, I am merely stating a very well known fact that, as per the US supreme court, fundamental rights (ie; guns and anything to do with guns), can only be restricted via "narrowly tailored" restrictions to "serve a compelling governmental interest", leaving no "less restrictive alternative".
An outright ban based on fear of something that has never happened is not exactly "narrowly tailored". We don't ban vests, but we don't say that felons aren't allowed to wear them.
Again, a fundamental tennet of liberty is we don't have to justify our freedoms, those who seek to limit our freedoms must justify their actions.
10:43 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
@roger - I also didn't discuss how many grains each projectile weighs etc etc. I was generalizing and I admit I didn't make the point of the hardened penetrator etc. The point I was trying to make is that rounds of this sort are just not needed for the legal uses of firearms in MA. And finally I don't know where to get AP rounds as I have no need of them I've never bothered to try to purchase them. Again my point is where is the need for these types of weapons and rounds. I bring up the AP rounds issue as that seems to be the big contention point between the NRA and the Feds.
10:50 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
@Terraformer - I agree with your point "a fundamental tennet of liberty is we don't have to justify our freedoms, those who seek to limit our freedoms must justify their actions" I just think that it is justifiable to ban automatic weapons and AP rounds etc.
John Patch
11:02 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
as already stated;
Automatic weapons are heavily regulated by the feds already in this country. You CAN NOT just go and buy or possess a fully automatic weapon without jumping through many hoops first. And probably 5% of anyone who applies for a class III license to possess full auto weapons actually gets approved for one.
11:13 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
@ Daniel re: "I agree with your point "a fundamental tennet of liberty is...."
You mentioned earlier that AP seems to be the NRA's new issue with the .gov. Here is why, the BATFE regulations they have proposed have nothing to do with true AP and are a canard to further restrict things having nothing to do with true safety. Just as the NFA ban, the AWB and every useless and ineffective gun control measure before it, the point is to restrict lawful citizens access to firearms as much as they possibly can. They make up excuses why x is SOOOO deadly but in reality, it's not any more deadly than Y. It's just a form of misdirection in order to make incremental gains towards the real goal which is a complete ban. Once you realize this, you will understand that the .30-06 that hunters like (and which is ostensibly protected by the right in your mind) is far worse then the FN5.7 the anti-gunners have a hair across their rears for at the moment. The FN5.7 is a glorified .22 magnum yet the anti-gunners call it AP because it has a pointy tip.
This is why we have such a rabid rejection of this effort. We see it for what it is, incremental infringement.
11:35 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
just to clear things up.
Armor piercing rounds are not obtainable by civilians. armor piercing rounds are fully jacketed BUT they also have a steel core which makes them armor piercing. just having a jacket does NOT make them armor piercing.
Automatic weapons have been strongly regulated since 1934 with the passing of the NFA and no automatic weapons made after 1986 are able to be possessed by any civilian.
A well regulated militia is not what you think it is. at the time the second amendment was written the word "regulated" meant fully functional not fully governed. This makes two types of militia. An organized militia such as the National Guard and the unorganized militia which is made up of every able bodied civilian capable of using a firearm proficiently.
Just to sum things up here. The second amendment affords us the right to keep and bear arms. there are no stipulations. there is no the right to keep and bear arms... except for this or that. it is all encompassing. There is no need to "need" there is only the right to keep and bear. PERIOD
12:01 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
@Jim - You are 100% correct in your definition of the right to keep and bear arms WAS all encompassing, at the time personal weapons were limited to single shot personal arms. The founders were speaking about the weapons known to be available in that time period. The term "regulated" I agree could be and probably was meant as you express it, but that's why we have a supreme court to define what the founders meant and in many cases the founders left wiggle room for circumstance that might come to be that they could not conceive of at the time.
My point on the militia was that along with the right to keep and bear arms we as citizens were given the responsibility of protecting the nation whether via a state militia or a citizens brigade type along the lines of the minutemen. And so many people want to forget about that responsibility.
I am not against gun rights I just think we need to put certain common sense regulations on the purchase, sale, use, storage of the weapons. And still through all of this argument I've continually asked the question of Why do you need advanced weapons and rounds and the only answer I've gotten is that you have the right to. I personal do not think that is enough of a reason.
If we don't put the "do not cross this line" at Automatic Weapons then where do we begin to limit a gun owners rights? Anti Tank weapons? Depleted Uranium rounds? Because I think we can all agree that adding a M134 mini gun to your Hummer is probably a bit too much
12:10 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
While i agree with regulations to felons and mentally unstable people, you do have to remember that the second amendment was put in place to defend the country. Yes at the time it was written we only had muzzle loaders. This also means at the time an powers that be also had muzzle loaders. times have changed however. We are passed the times of single shot rifles.
Like i said there is already a line drawn in the sand at automatic weapons. as well as destructive devices (which are unobtainable in MA)
Also to give everyone a heads up. at the time an arm was defined as a firearm about the size of a mans arm. So the arguments about anti tank weapons, tanks, jets with missiles is a moot point since they wouldn't have been covered under the second amendment in the first place.
Jason Sawyer
1:33 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
What does AP ammo have to do with law-abiding gun owners renewing their state issued 2nd Amendment permission slip? With this bill we are not seeking changes to the existing laws on AP ammo or automatic weapons, we are merely seeking a compromise that will allow us to stay legal when the renewals take longer than the statutory 40 day maximum.
9:19 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
The law is working fine, leave it be. I have to agree with the above on automatic weapons - no reason for a private citizen to own one.
The only argument I can think of is the original reason we have the 2nd Amendment. Guns are not for the government to protect citizens, but the other way around. All over the world governments suppress rights and people need a means to fight back. Don't think it can't happen here.
John Patch
11:03 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
as already stated;
Automatic weapons are heavily regulated by the feds already in this country. You CAN NOT just go and buy or possess a fully automatic weapon without jumping through many hoops first. And probably 5% of anyone who applies for a class III license to possess full auto weapons actually gets approved for one.
11:47 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
as already stated - if someone is determined enough and has enough money, they'll get one.
John Patch
11:55 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
hahahaha then what does banning them do according to your logic?
Jason Sawyer
1:35 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Please read Massachusetts General Law Chapter 140, Section 131(e) and explain to me how said law is "working fine" when renewals and first issues routinely take much longer than the statutory 40 day maximum defined therein.
7:00 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Why no reason for a private citizen to own automatic weapons? There's plenty of reasons, not excluding financial investment.
Do you even know what purpose they really serve? It's not to mow down groups of unarmed people in the movie theater, if that's what you've been conditioned to think by the communist media.
If i recall correctly, there have been only 2 fatal shootings involving full auto weapons after 1938 and one involved a police officer. All this fear of full auto weapons in the hands of law-abiding Americans is irrational.
If anything, we'll see a large number of illegal full autos coming back from Mexico, in the hands of gangsters.
Question for Bill: Guess who gave it to them?
Answer: The U.S. Government.
9:29 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Oh, here come the armchair gun experts who have never touched a gun, applied for a MA LTC and whom think they know what is acceptable to ban and how, why MA gun licensing is so important and how it protects peoples safety, etc;...
MA licensing scheme? To everyone who wants to make it like the drivers licenses, most MA gun owners would see that as an improvement. Because the RMV can't pull your license for speaking out against the RMV, while police chiefs have been known to pull licenses for those on the wrong side of town politics. The RMV processes licenses quickly and allows online renewal. There are clear criteria for who gets a drivers license and they can't take it away without some evidence of misuse. Gun owners have had their LTC/FIDs pulled for breaking non existent laws where no misuse existed. PDs will deny licenses to those with long hair and tattoos on the theory they must be gang members. I haven't heard of the RMV doing this, have you?
MA gun laws are not about safety, they are specifically designed to stifle the exercise of the right. They are designed to make it as hard and as laborious to get in order to dissuade people from getting a gun. This isn't about safety, it's about control.
10:09 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Then you've made the important point, that the gun laws in MA need to be changed both for safety of society at large and to protect the rights of gun owners. As I have stated before I am NOT an armchair gun expert, I am not an expert at all but I was trained in the use of small arms during my stint serving my country in the USCG. I believe that US citizens that are not convicted criminals, that are not suffering from mental illness, that are trained in Gun safety and shooting and are willing to take personal responsibility for their weapons should be allowed to own guns that are NOT automatic weapons. I still have never heard a reasonable excuse as to why a private citizen would need automatic weapons and armor piercing rounds.
3:43 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
I once said something to my Chief that he did not appreciate. I would not be surprised if he tried to pull my LTC for no good reason other than I told him something he did not want to hear.
9:54 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
There should be no licensing in the first place. But a lifelong license is ok for a first step.
Full autos are loads of fun, albeit really expensive fun. Suppressors should be legal too. As mentioned above, most rifle calibers are armor piercing (including your grandfather's hunting rifle).
10:05 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
"An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man is a subject"
To obtain a firearm, permit, you must take a gun safety course that teaches proper handling, storage and transport of a firearm, a background check, including mental health, is done and as part of the course, you learn to fire the weapon properly at a firing range.
Crimes are not committed by responsible gun owners- period.
10:33 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
@John Merrett - I agree most crimes committed with the use of a firearm are not done by responsible gun owners, the criminal element has other avenues to obtain firearms. I applaud your support of gun safety as from what I can tell most gun accidents come from improper handling and storage of weapons. This is why I support everything you've said above, we are Americans guns are part of our culture and as has been expressed here it is our right as a citizen to own firearms. My problem is that so many people here do not want to have the responsibilities that go along with that right.
3:44 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
I was not required to shoot at a firing range to obtain my LTC concealed? I just had to take the safety course, fill out the forms and pay.
John Patch
10:09 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Automatic weapons are heavily regulated by the feds already in this country. You CAN NOT just go and buy or possess a fully automatic weapon without jumping through many hoops first. And probably 5% of anyone who applies for a class III license to possess full auto weapons actually gets approved for one.
Jason Sawyer
2:05 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
This bill has nothing to do with automatic weapons. We are merely seeking a compromise that would correct the injustice of becoming a "paper felon" when the state fails to follow it's own renewal law.
10:14 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Yes hunting rounds can be considered armor piercing rounds but military grade armor piercing rounds are different, Partial metal jacket for hunting rounds full metal jacket for military grade rounds. Licensing is the most important thing and a lifelong license makes as much sense as giving someone a drivers license at 16 that is valid forever, things change and that is why most licenses need to be renewed on a regular basis.
10:30 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
The natural right of self-defense is valid forever, regardless of what you think.
10:47 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
@roger - I have no problem with self defense, I believe that if someone breaks into my home in the middle of the night I should be allowed to shoot them between the eyes and then go back to bed. I'm pretty sure you have no idea what I think from your comments but I will lay it out plainly. Firearms should be allowed to american citizens under the conditions that have been discussed in this forum. I believe that the right comes along with a responsibility and if you don't believe that Rights have corresponding Responsibilities then there is no use continuing this.
Jason Sawyer
2:05 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
This bill has nothing to do with AP ammo. We are merely seeking a compromise that would correct the injustice of becoming a "paper felon" when the state fails to follow it's own renewal law.
7:10 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
@ Daniel Vassily
What do rights and responsibilities have to do with the Government treating us like children? The only way of becoming a responsible adult is to grow up from the childhood phase.
Are you so blind that you cannot see that the Government wants their subjects to be like children, always depending on their 'parents'?
10:16 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
"stifle the easy use of guns?" Are you joking? Please, tell me exactly how many licensed gun owners get arrested in a year. One, maybe? For the "crime" of letting their license lapse? Tell me, Patch - how much do YOU pay each year for your License for Free Speech?
Seriously... think of how morally WRONG it is to require a citizen to comply with the permitting scheme and then, when they DO try to comply, they are made a criminal THROUGH NO ACTION OF THEIR OWN. In Marlboro, I tried to renew 3 months early - I got told do not call back until 4 weeks prior to my LTC's expiration date. Took another week just to get an appointment to see the licensing officer, and then 9 weeks to get my LTC. With me so far? That's 70 days... and over a month an a half AFTER my expiration date. I was halfway through the grace period, but I was unable to purchase or sell any of my own firearms and unable to purchase ammunition with an expired LTC.
And if it had taken more than 6 more weeks... instant criminal. And many people ARE waiting that long and far longer. This is WRONG and the Commonwealth MUST address this.
10:28 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
@Dwarven1 - Again another example of why our gun laws need to be revamped.
John Patch
10:22 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
How many checks, hoops, and renewals do the criminals who carry illegal guns and commit crimes with them have to go through? Crimes are very rarely committed with legal guns by legal law abiding gun owners.
still snowing
10:25 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
No big deal...guns are easy to find from mass to Maine with no problem
10:55 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
The odds of being injured by a legal gun owner - 1 in 1 million
The odds of drowning in a swimming poo - 1 in 11,000
Shouldn't we have stricter pool laws?
11:06 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
The odds of being hit by lightening in your life are 1 in 10000 Shouldn't we have stricter weather laws?
The odds of being injured while shaving are 1 in 6585, Shouldn't we ban multiple bladed razors (or as I call them Automatic Razors)?
The odds of drowning in a bathtub are 1 in 685000 I believe the federal government needs to assign every bathroom with a bathtub it's own lifeguard.
The odds of a comments section discussing a serious topic degenerating into a kindergarten brawl 1 in 1
Enjoy the rest of your day, I have to go hunt some squirrel with an anti tank rocket.
7:15 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
@ Daniel Vassily,
You are trying to make fun of his argument and support your own but you are making his argument for him.
Most people would find having weather laws, multiple razor blades and bathtube laws idiotic, yet the chances of getting injured because of those causes are higher than the chances of being shot by a legal gun owner.
Therefore, why have all these restricting laws?
Let me ask you, why are you so afraid?
Joe Robichaud
10:58 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
I think we need to let the MA AWB expire like the federal one...explain to me how a flash suppressor or telescoping stock on an AR makes it "more dangerous"?
11:08 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
I don't know if a flash suppressor or telescoping stock make the weapon more dangerous but they definitely make the weapon easier to conceal while sneaking the weapon into a movie theatre or onto a college campus.
james a park
11:11 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
a "flash suppressor" does NOT make it easier to conceal a firearm... it makes the firearm longer.
11:15 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
@Daniel Vassily
If you pin the telescoping stock to it's shortest position, this is legal. It's now the most concealable it will be and yet, it's now blessed by the anti-gun gods.
11:20 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
@James a Park - A flash Suppressor suppresses the muzzle flash thus making it harder to spot where the shot came from.
11:46 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
wrong again a flash suppressor is there in an attempt to protect the shooter from night blindness.
11:57 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
@Daniel Vassily,
No, it makes the flash less visible to the person firing the gun. Even if what you were saying is true, anyone bent on a crime could easily go to NH to get a flash suppressor and put it on an otherwise MA compliant rifle. Finally, the vast majority of crimes involving guns do not involve guns that are outlawed by the assault weapon ban in MA.
Go to a gun shop in MA and ask to see an AR15 or AK47 and ask what makes it MA compliant. Anyone reasonable will walk away thinking those features are pointless.
12:14 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
@jim - This is getting tiresome you say "@daniel - wrong again a flash suppressor is there in an attempt to protect the shooter from night blindness." Well sorry to burst your bubble but the US Army field Manual states something along the lines of this "A flash suppressor, also known as a flash guard, flash eliminator, flash hider, or flash cone, is a device attached to the muzzle of a rifle or other gun that reduces the visible signature of the burning gases that exit the muzzle. This reduces the chances that the shooter will be blinded in dark conditions. A secondary benefit of flash suppression is the reduction of the flash visible to the enemy."
Jason Sawyer
2:04 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
This bill has nothing to do with flash hiders or telescoping stocks. We are merely seeking a compromise that would correct the injustice of becoming a "paper felon" when the state fails to follow it's own renewal law.
11:04 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
If one believes the FBI crime statistics, MA gun control laws have done little, if anything to improve crime here. in fact, the data shows a steady increase. I see a lot of comparisons for gun licenses and the RMV- here's another- Gun control laws are like controlling drunk driving by regulating how sober people may buy a car.
Criminals care little for gun laws. They're criminals.
Only in MA, an effectively one-party state, can they make yup laws and fail to honor them. Typical do-as-I say politics.
Equally ridiculous is the need for a license, merely to possess, what is a clearly stated natural right.
This is about control, nothing else. let it go.
11:14 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
@Friday - I am not sure of what you mean bu a natural right, could you expand? As far as I knew Natural Rights are concepts, not things. As far as I can tell the natural rights spoken of by our forefathers were that "All men are created equal," "Inalienable rights," "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
11:57 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Natural rights were enumerated in the Constitution as the Bill of Rights.
james a park
11:11 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
let's talk solutions: we already have an entity in massachusetts, that collects money to give out licenses. it is called the registry of motor vehicles. add $25.00 to your driver's license renewal, and add an endorsement to your DL. This takes the burden off of local law enforcement, and removes the ability to restrict law abiding citizens by arbitrary local police chiefs.
Andrew currier
11:17 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Yes. These draconian laws are just silly. They are comparable to requiring sober people to pass a breathylizer test to drive. You could kill someone with a bat, or a car, but you don't see politicians keeping you from driving to a softball game.
11:27 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Criminals get guns as soon as they want them by buying them through illegal means. Responsible, law-abiding citizens go through the legal channels in Massachusetts, and have to wait typically a minimum of 40 days. What happens if they are attacked by a criminal within those 40 or more days? We're talking months, and in some cases almost a year to get a license for legal gun owners before they can even purchase a gun. And once they do receive their license, they still have to pass a background check every time they try to purchase a firearm from a dealer. The new online registration website in Massachusetts would also notify a seller during a personal transactions if someone's license was revoked. We need a level playing field for responsible citizens to be able to defend themselves against the thuggery who would like to do us harm. Also, those so-called "Saturday Night Specials" that were taken off the shelves by the AG years ago? Those were the guns that poor people could afford to defend themselves. Thanks to the AG and these costly licensing laws, it's now too expensive for many of our poorer citizens to own guns. How is that helping the poorest among us who typically live in the most crime-ridden areas?
Dave Gray
11:32 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
I've had a LTC for over 40 years, and am up for renewal at the end of January. I filled out the renewal app in early November. That was submitted by the PD to the state for the required background check. Four weeks later, after the background check was completed, I was called back into the PD for prints and pictures, and there were eight people waiting. After the Chief's approval, those were sent back to the state for issuance of the card, which I have not received yet, and don't expect to see for about another four weeks.
I don't have a problem with the current system, except for the amount of time it takes. The local chief may have some knowledge of an applicant's history or character that is not mentioned in the state check, so I don't really have a problem with that either, except when the chief makes an arbitrary judgement, which does happen on occasion. My understanding is that if you file in a timely manner, even if your permit expires while you are waiting, you are in no danger of being charged with a violation.
11:42 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
If the state is either unwilling or incapable of following its own rules to allow for the exercise of constitutionally guaranteed rights by its citizens, then it absolutely needs to get itself out of the business of controlling it.
We also need to get rid of the discretionary licensing scheme.
11:47 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
"According to a gun control lobbying group, the Violence Policy Center, Massachusetts also has the lowest gun death rate in the nation."
As always, VPC and similar organizations inflate their statistics by including suicides - hardly relevant if violent crime is the issue that you truly care about
John Q Medic
11:55 am on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
All i will add to this debate is a simple observation. I have been working in EMS for many years in MA. I have been to dozens of shootings. The only one to involve a legally owned/obtained firearm was a cop shooting a suspect. The rest were all illegally possessed. How does restricting John Doe sportsman, collector, or hobbyist have any bearing on this? Also, all these guns are junk low capacity hand guns. Magically removing "assault weapons" from the matrix would have no effect on these crimes. As one person keeps insinuating on here, the term "automatic" seems to be used incorrectly pretty frequently also. Generally, people writing laws and regulations are not versed in the facts of the issue at hand. Their interest in restricting and regulating is usually often based on confusion and fear of the issue without a well thought out plan as to how to fix percieved problems.
Tele Gram
12:22 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
First of all, why are they licensing a civil right? Second, one way to fix this is to hold someone responsible. I say make it the police chiefs, since they are the authority here. Hold them responsible using stiff fines. If they do not want this, I suggest doing away with the licensing requirements.
John W. O'Brien III
12:29 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
the only people who gun laws hurt, are those of us who are inclined to follow the law. our guns laws at present are designed to turn law-abiding citizens into criminals. REAL criminals on the other hand, are not affected by gun laws and don't care to follow them anyway. THAT is why they are "criminals." our gun laws have been written by, voted for, and signed into law by people who know nothing of our "gun culture." what GOAL is trying to do is correct that and craft laws that make sense and are based in REALITY, not based on a media-created fantasy world.
Bruce Fenton
12:30 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
The laws are far too strict in Massachusetts -- at the very least they should match New Hampshires more sensible laws.
It all comes down to this : if you agree that most people are good people, it makes sense to have as many armed as possible. If you see the wisdom that our founding fathers saw, that citizens are equall and need balanced footing with government, all the more so.
Officer Obie
12:47 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Massachusetts gun laws must not only be loosened, but should be entirely rewitten.
It is a basic tenant of our legal system that the people should have the ability to know what their laws are. You shouldn't need a J.D. and a bar card to figure out the guns laws of your jurisdiction. Unfortunately, years of piece-meal amendments by do-gooder politicans has added unintended (and some intended) complexity and exceptions to the exceptions. Anyone who has ever attempted to navigate the commonwealth's gun laws, beginning at MGL ch. 140, § 122 et seq, and including MGL ch. 269, §10 is in for a rude awakening if they want to attempt to figure out what is lawful and what is not. And this goes not just for the law-abiding gun owner, but for prosecutors and police who are charged with upholding what are nebulous laws and the defense attorneys who are charged with defending those who break theses laws. For example, the law books that MA police officers use have over 30 pages of charts that attempt to explain the gun laws, and still leave some stuff out.
Further, MA residents are barred from perfectly legal sporting activities their fellow Americans are allowed to engage in. For example, Massachusetts residents are can't compete in so-called "as-issued" high-powered matches run by the Civilian Marksmanship Program (a Congressionally-chartered org) because of our ban on so-called "assult weapons". One thing is for sure. These laws aren't followed by those who intend to break them.
12:53 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Daniel, you still seem to not understand what armor piercing ammunition is. Full metal jacket and partial metal jacket (that you claim hunters prefer) are both not armor piercing. Only bullets with a hardened steel or tungsten penetrator will be any better at piercing armor. I am talking about hard armor plate steel, almost ANY rifle bullet will go through a cops kevlar vest like its paper, those are designed to stop handgun rounds only. Even knives will penetrate soft vests. Having learned to shoot and M16A2 and M9 in the USCG doesn't make you at all qualified or knowledgeable about weapons.
As to why AP should be legal. Why shouldn't it? If we ever need to be shooting at plate steel and military armor, it will probably be a good thing we have it. If not, the good old fashioned rifle bullets will do just as much damage to kevlar as an AP bullet will.
I draw the line of further regulation though not an outright ban at the ability to kill indiscriminately. I believe machineguns should be legal, even of new manufacture. They serve an incredible tactical purpose and are loads of fun (and $$) to shoot. I wouldn't be opposed to a regulatory process, but the 1986 production cut off needs to go.
If you can pass the background check to buy the gun, you should be allowed to carry a gun.
1:38 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
@Mike - You still seem to not understand that I admitted to simplifying the facts surrounding AP rounds, and you still do not seem to understand I don't really care to debate the finer points of ammunition. I was trying to state that rounds of this sort, Military, Penetrator, Dum Dum, Hollow Point, Exploding Tip, have no practical civilian use and thus should not be available to the general public.
I have also stated that I am NOT a firearms expert but that I was trained in their use during my service time with the USCG.
You believe machine gun should be legal "even of new manufacture", as far as I know you CAN legally shoot these weapons at qualified gun ranges, which will still give you "loads of fun" (pun intended). What possible tactical purpose do you need to shoot a weapon for sport or hunting?
I totally agree that if you pass the background check you should be able to purchase a gun so please get your story straight, I have never once advocated criminalizing gun ownership I have repeatedly stated that as Americans we have the RIGHT to own guns but that restrictions do need to be in place.
1:49 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
So you are just simplifying the facts. Rounds of that "sort" need to be banned because you see them as having no civilian use. You want a ban, you just aren't sure on what it should be yet. Full metal jacket rounds are not just military rounds, you realize that, right? Also, the second amendment isn't for "hunting and sporting" it is for defense from others to include those who may or may not be well armed, as well as defense of the state. Many ballistic tip bullets fly much more accurately and are common among precision shooters. Nobody uses soft-point bullets in long distance competitions. Likewise, something designed for killing animals really well will kill people better. So I am failing to see your argument.
You said you received training from "experts in the field" while in the USCG. I don't know what these experts talked about, or what you retained, but you seem to not understand the capabilities of different bullets and their makeup.
What possible reason do I need a machinegun for? 1. Fun. 2. Supression. 3. Because I can...
You ARE talking about criminilizing gun owners. Let's make it illegal to have XYZ ammo, so people who have that ammo will be criminals. Let's make it illegal to have XYZ guns, so people who have them will be criminals. You even include so called "assault weapons" in what should be banned.
1:53 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Daniel, you don't care to debate the finer points of various ammunition types and admit to not being an expert on the subject, but you're still trying to make proclamations on what should and should not be available.
To pick one example, hollow points have no practical civilian use? Really? On this one alone, you ought to do a lot of research before you keep talking. (hint: hollow points don't travel through walls nearly as well as the ammunition you say should be available).
You agree that Americans should be able to own guns but defining the limits is exactly what this whole subject is about. It's plainly clear that the politicians in MA would be happy to set the limit at muskets, but the Heller and MacDonald decisions refuted that logic. You seem slightly more educated on the subject compared to the politicians, but not much.
2:04 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
@Mike - if you want to argue go on, it makes little difference to me. Yes I simplified things and you know what I was talking about but you'd prefer to confuse the issue by arguing over semantics. And while in the USCG our arms instructors were retired USMC, they taught us to respect the weapon, that the weapon is used to kill, that is it's purpose, it wasn't a toy and it wasn't a hobby. That's what I learned, respect your weapon. Now as the USCG uses arms infrequently I am in no way an expert, but that doesn't mean I am clueless.
Your reasons for wanting to own a machine are exactly why I want them banned. You want a machine gun for "FUN", this is a serious tool not a toy. You want a machine gun for "Suppression" suppression of what? Are you regularly attacked by the taliban or do mean you want to use your machine to suppress others, like maybe the your neighbors or your government?
And yes we often make things illegal in society, like certain types of pocket knives, a soda bottle on a plane, cigarettes in restaurants so what's the big deal with the type of ammunition we've been talking about?
From reading your comments I can see there will be no reasoning with you so I will wish you a good day and stop wasting my time going around in circles with you.
2:19 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
I'm very aware of the power of weapons. They can be fine as toys or for entertainment as well as tools. One of my favorite things to do is go to the range with my evil AR-15 and shoot 4-500 rounds.
With regard to "supression," in my lifetime I doubt I would ever seen a need for a machinegun, but if we ensure bans and laws like these aren't passed hopefully if anything were to happen, be it tomorrow, or 300 years from now, the "people" will still have a chance. If we banned and took away all guns tomorrow this country very well may stay as free as it has been since its founding... but given a few decades or centuries, can you say that will still be the case? No, but you can say that there would be no ability to fight back. Privatized gun ownership is the last in a series of checks and balances, and in and of itself should serve as a deterrent before anything else.
Plenty of "first world" countries through time have gone rogue on their people, and done some pretty terrible things. While systems in this country make that unlikely, only 60 years ago we deemed Japanese Americans a threat worth locking up as prisoners for YEARS until the war was over... We are a society, and not immune to its evils just because we have done an OK job thus far.
2:21 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
So to all you gun lovers out there listen up:
1. I am not an arms or ammunition expert
2. I believe Americans have the right to own personal weapons within limits as defined by law.
3. I have had personal and practical experience with weapons (again not an expert but not clueless)
4. I have no desire to argue the respective pros and cons of different ammunition
5. I will not respond to arguments that use FUN as a basis for developing gun laws
6. I am concerned that comments like wanting a machine gun for suppression has no legal or moral place in this argument
2:22 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
@PaulD - You people really need to start reading the comments you are opposing.
I don't have to be an expert to know that there are types of weapons and types of ammunition that should NOT be available to the general public. My point was where is the line? I know you'd prefer to confuse the issue by arguing over the semantics of various ammunition. And while I have stated multiple times that I am not an expert in arms or ammunition I am not clueless. I don't have to be an expert in automotive dynamics to know that going 90 miles an hour around a curve on a dark rainy night isn't advisable either. While I was in the USCG our arms instructors were retired USMC, they taught us to respect the weapon, that the weapon is used to kill, that is it's purpose, it wasn't a toy and it wasn't a hobby. That's what I learned, respect your weapon.
So you state a case for Hollow points, good for you sir and if enough people agree with you that will become the law of the land and then I will respect the LAW as I do now.
2:34 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
1. No, you just think that things you know nothing about should be banned based of what they are called or what you presume with no real knowledge.
2. "Law" is forever changing, and can be challenged, and exist despite being illegal itself until it is challenged.
3. Ok...
4. Good to know... just that certain ammunition of which you don't actually know about should be banned.
5. Why not? It is a free country, are we not allowed to have toys if they might be dangerous? Should I not be allowed to have a corvette because I can do the same thing in a buick?
6. Owning weapons beyond your daddies hunting rifle is IRRELEVANT when talking about a free state? Really?
Germany, confiscated the guns from the Jews and Gypsies, than killed them all. We can talk about Stalin and his gun control policies too if you'd like. Or how about Mexico... not big on people owning guns for protection but government defectors to cartels run the place with a full load out... Just because something is unlikely doesn't mean it's impossible and you shouldn't plan for it. THAT is ignorant and irresponsible.
2:54 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
@Mike so let me respond to your list because I always love arguing with
1. As I said you don't have to be an expert to be informed. I've stated where my knowledge came from, what makes you an expert other than your high opinion of yourself?
2. Yup Laws change and we have to obey them or change them, you are not doing a good job of convincing me to your viewpoint which is the beginning of every law - people agreeing on the same thing.
3. Thank you for your confirmation of my weapons experience I was feeling a bit fearful without your approval
4. Yup even though I am not an expert as an American I have the right to my opinion. And as a finer point to this No one is an expert on all things, just ask congress, a body that has to regularly vote on topics they are not experts in.
5. na na nah na nah I'm not listening. Yup I agree people can do a lot of damage with their toys, one reason I don't want you to have a machine gun.
6. It is definitely not irrelevant, wanting to own a weapon capable of putting down suppression fire at a high firing rate rate of 200+ rounds per minute is something that would be helpful during the Zombie Wars to come but a little much for hunting. If you need 200rpm when you go hunting I advise you to take up a different sport.
Hitler and Stalin are not here and Mexico is heading along the route to being a failed state exactly for all the gun violence you mention.
3:09 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
1. I'm not an expert. I am a machinegunner by trade in the Marine Corps, served as a Machinegunner in Afghanistan, and served as a Machinegun instructor as well as an infantry tactics instructor for a battalion of Jordanian Armed Forces. I am a MSP and NRA certified firearms instructor as well. I don't know everything, and things I don't know about I don't advocate for banning. I've never touched weed in my life, for example, and I don't think it should be treated any differently than alcohol because if what other people try to say to scare me.
2. There remains a standard laws must be held to (various state and the federal constitution). Just because they are signed in as new, doesn't mean they are in fact legal. Just because they have yet to be challenged (its not exactly easy or cheap), doesn't make them legal. There is a difference between repealing a law that isn't liked and proving one, to in fact, be illegal.
4. You don't have to be an expert on everything. If you are going to go around advocating that something be made illegal, and all the owners of that thing criminilized, it is, however, a good idea to at least have a clue. You by no means have to, you just look like a fool when you say XYZ should be illegal and you don't even know what XYZ is. It's irresponsible.
5. So to clarify, no dangerous toys for adults anywhere right?
6. Deserves it's own response
3:16 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
6... Continued:
Just to nit pick, because I can. Any semi-automatic rifle or handgun can be fired between 300-400 rounds per minute by anyone competent. Competitors are even able to out shoot the trigger speed with practice on some of the slower guns. There is more to a rate of fire than "this many round a minute" but I will spare you the lecture.
You remain stuck on this hunting thing and won't address it. The 2nd Amendment is not for hunting. I have never hunted and I shoot regularly. Hunting is not a relevent point. No you don't need a Machinegun to hunt. Hitler and Stalin are no longer here. You are arguing that something like that would be IMPOSSIBLE in the United States. While not immediate it is far from impossible. This is a NEW country. We had slaves up until 150 years ago. We had imprisoned Americans in PRISON CAMPS by the thousands 60 years ago. We have the NDAA and the Patriot act. Nothing is imminent, but its ignorant and irresponsible to say nothing could ever happen because our politicians are nice sweet people and always would be so as a society we should not be permitted to be allowed to defend ourselves. It is just stupid to say that.
Mexico is in the world of crap they are in right now largely due to teh illicit drug trade, and in no small part due to being legally prevented from protecting themselves. Mexicans can't own guns, so they are terrorized by the cartels with 10s of thousands now dead. Yea, sure working out real well for them!
Jason Sawyer
3:21 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
This bill has absolutely nothing to do with "assault weapons" which is an inaccurate and prejudicial term but a separate argument for another day.
This bill simply seeks a compromise that would allow already licensed law-abiding gun owners to remain legally licensed by removing the administrative burden of processing these renewals. That's it.
3:24 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
@Mike - Well I would say your experience makes you an expert in the care and use of weapons. Doesn't make you an expert in civil or criminal law and I am not one either. Something that keeps coming up that I want to address. I have NEVER advocated the criminalizing of gun ownership. What I have stated is that the arms and the ammunition (of a type to be agreed upon at a later date) that we will restrict should have a legal penalty. I am not saying we should criminalize gun ownership. But if the law says the XYZ Ammunition is illegal and you are found in possession of it then heck yes you should be charged. Just like the Marijuana laws you spoke of, at the moment I believe possession of under 1 ounce has been decriminalized but if you have 2 ounces in your pocket then that is a criminal act. Whether I agree or disagree with this law makes no difference, the law is there to be followed or changed and until it has been changed by the will of the people it must be followed. So I am no more criminalizing the pot smoker with a legal amount of weed than I am of a gun owner that possesses legal arms and ammunition. If a law is being challenged it's still the law and we have to abide by it until it is legal adopted, so in fact a law is a law unless our law makers suspend or revoke it. And from your comments it seems that when it comes to gun laws only your opinion counts, because I am not an expert I should shut up and sit in the back, well that definitely is NOT going to happen.
3:29 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Working to pass laws to make you feel more warm and comfy when you refuse to fully understand what laws you are advocating for make you irresponsible. I am not an anarchist. I believe in laws. I think we have way to many stupid laws on the books about all sorts of things, that result in a bunch of people who don't need to be being in prisons and burning tax money just to make some people feel comfy so politicians could hold their place of power.
I am not arguing with you about being in violation of law making you a criminal. I am arguing with you in support of existing or new bad laws that will in effect criminalize people or make more good people now criminals under those laws, because they make you feel better about yourself or your own situation, regardless of what they do in fact do.
And I really am not an expert, there are people in the field who know absolutely absurd amounts about things that it would make your head spin. Those guys are the experts. I am a novice at best, but it is my field.
3:35 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
@Mike 6 Continued
Yes you are nit picking. And you are starting to sound like one of those Militia Survivalist so you should tone it down a bit. Yes I've seen the movie Red Dawn and I understand that it COULD happen but I am not willing to base my life around the most least likely horrible thing that could happen. I plan to live in a civil society that is governed by laws and if that system should fail I reserve the right to work to change the law and to make society safe for individual freedom and liberty. The Mexican problem is due to criminals with guns, Criminals with Guns, this is the problem. Going back to the 2nd Amendment the right to bear arms did indeed have meaning for hunting. Look up english hunting laws of the time and you'll see what I mean. In England at that time you could be found guilty of poaching just for having a gun on your possession. Thus the freedom to bear arms. The Constitution is not so narrow as you'd like to think.
I have to go now....I hear black helicopters
3:46 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
I said not likely in my lifetime. I'm sure the half of my family that disappeared in Germany 60 years ago didn't think it was too likely for them either. Have you ever seen a society ruled by fear? I didn't think so, its not pretty though. I'm not preparing for the end of the world, I own no Machineguns and have about 2 weeks worth of food in my house. That doesn't mean I think it is a good idea to make sure that Americans cannot own X Y Z and because it makes you feel better about yourself.
6:43 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
@ Daniel Vassily,
What's wrong with 'FUN'? Do you think it's bad that gun owners have FUN shooting their guns? It's is a highly de-stressful activity. I take many new shooters to the range and the common comment is how FUN this is.
And let me tell you, full auto is the most FUN of them all for lots of people.
Since you think that FUN shouldn't be a good reason, how about people who drive certain brands of cars? Should they not have access to driving those cars because they find it FUN? Please make sure to let them know that having FUN with their cars is anathema.
While you're at it, why not ban all cars that can go more than 55 miles an hour since the legal limit in MA is 55 and a car that goes faster than that serves no purpose?
1:18 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
the lifetime license is indeed the right way to go. It is a real hassle to renew the license, and in many communities they simply do not devote any resources to getting it done on time. The law is pretty clear, if your license is out of date, you can not carry a gun for any reason, nor purchase a gun or ammo. And after a short waiting period, you become an automatic felon for possessing guns without a current license. Sounds like the law is DESIGNED to discourage people from owning guns.
Jason Sawyer
1:42 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
As a law-abiding gun owner in MA, I find it unacceptable that MGL Chapter 140, Section 131(e) is routinely ignored.
As a legal gun owner I'm expected to (and do) obey the stupidest and most inane laws on the books here in MA, yet the very law enforcement agencies who dole out my 2nd amendment permission slip are encouraged to disregard the same laws that they are paid to uphold. Where is the justice in that?
6:49 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
No such things as justice in commie states, just peasant control as we well know.
2:30 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
The 3 safest states,- New Hampshire, Vermont and N. Dakota, have reasonable gun laws, Vermont even allows open carry, which proves anti gun laws do nothing to stop crime, they only make it difficult on law abiding citizens to exercise their rights.
2:36 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Open carry is legal in Massachusetts as well, people just rarely choose to practice it.
3:28 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Mike, In Mass., you can open carry with a permit and there are restrictions, Vermont does not require a permit to open carry..,
3:33 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
You stated Vermont even allows open carry... I was stating that Massachusetts does as well, its just not usually excercised. I OC and see others OCing when hiking, but that's about it. It is, however, perfectly legal if you are licensed, but can lead to various headaches when actually practiced, depending what part of the state you are in.
Andrew currier
4:11 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Hmm. How many liberals (progressives, socialists, whatever the buzz word is) does it take to screw in a lightbulb? None. They refuse to be enlightened. Stay ignorant my gun grabbing friends.
4:23 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Warren is anti gun, unless you're a criminal,Let's hope she focuses on destroying us through Agenda 21 and leaves the 2nd Amendment alone,- but don't count on it.
4:52 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
The big problem that GOAL has with the current laws is that each town can set their own arbitrary rules as to who can be licensed and who can't. One person can get their license to carry in one town without an issue, and if they move to a new town, the chief can say "no, sorry, you can't have a license to carry anymore". That is absurd.
If I person meets all the requirements to receive their LTC, and isn't ineligible for legitimate reason(s) (past crimes, mental illness, violence, etc), they should be allowed to get their license in timely manner. No police chief should be able to deny someone their LTC for no reason.
5:32 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
I address this to Daniel, but will speak to all who see the current "laws" as acceptable, justifiable or good. What follows may sound harsh, but I make no apologies for the truth or my opinion.
There were many things I took note of in this thread, so hopefully I can get them all in with some level of efficiency.
First off, thank you for your service in the Coast guard.
Next let's make sure we understand the Constitution and what it means (including that MA has no power to actually make or enforce these "laws").
A well regulated militia --- Regulated meant, in 18th century verbiage "Well trained and/or familiar with military practices." Hence, "Regular" being how an official soldier was referred to. While it can imply standardization as well, the term "militia" refutes any requirement that it be under the control of government. This was debated at the time and the notions of "National Guard", etc. were flatly rejected. The closest thing a government run military group could equate to in any way would be what in 18 century verbiage was called a "select militia".. this was rejected specifically from the 2nd amendment (as well as language to disqualify any category of citizen) explicitly because it might be used to disarm the average citizen.
5:33 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Being necessary to the security of a free state --- And here's where the objections fail.. In contempory verbiage, the whole first part of 2A is nothing more than saying "Free people, governing themselves, can only happen when they can band together in a military fashion and know what they're doing..."
The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. --- Clear and absolute. Note that "infringed" even implies that you can't even come at the very edges of this right (note also the term "right", as in, NOT "privilege"). I am constantly amazed at how people try to reject this on verbiage when the exact same verbiage is repeated in multiple amendments. The fact is, they do not LIKE the truth, and want it to not be so. There is no other explanation.
Now combine this with the 10th Amendment "rights and privileges" "prohibited by [the constitution] to the states"... Yes my anti-gun friends, 2A would be a "Prohibited to the states" item.
Add in the statement in the Constitution that IT IS the supreme law of the land, such that state law and constitutions that oppose it are overruled and..... Therefore - MA gun law is not law, but bully edict. That is a fact, but I would not advise non-compliance or trying to get any law enforcement or judicial person to honor it.
5:33 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Ok, so for the argument of Muskets/machine guns, ammo types, civilians/official armed forces, etc... "But they only had Muskets" you say. Yes, and the government (British at the time) ALSO only had muskets. So why do I need a machine gun?? The same reason the U.S. Army does. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. Call me a kook, etc. etc.... You're entitled to your opinion, but the fundamental purpose, if we boil everything down the fact of the matter (and there is a mountain of established and respected historical evidence to show it) is that the 2A has 1 purpose -- to maintain the means of effectual resistence to tyranny. Now that tyranny can be government tyranny, criminal tyranny and can be internal or external, but it is not hunting deer and I think anyone who actually believes that's the point is a kook.
Hitler and Stalin aren't here??? Really, because I doubt what we mean by using those names wasn't something that if that notion was understood in their time as we know them today that they'd ever have been. I'd say that Hitler and Stalin ARE here. The fact that Daniel, and any who agree with him would arbitrarily deny the civil right to own and carry are doing exactly what Hitler and Stalin did to become Hitler and Stalin.
5:35 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
I almost forgot --- They also had cannons in 1791. Cannons!
5:34 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Why does the NRA need to fight the myths of A.P. bullets??? Daniel proves how essential it is that we/they do!!! The control loving folks want exactly what we see with Daniel - fear that allows them to justify banning more and more. And that's the point that we all aught to acknowlege - Control is the goal.
The fact is that Daniel is scared. So am I. The difference being that I won't limit his rights, but he would limit mine. Is it because he feels he is better than I?? Isn't that the thing nobody wants to say openly? Am I a kook because I fear the government pushing me around, then Daniel is a kook for thinking thugs and dangerously negligent folks are just 1 law away from pushing him around. What's the difference?
So why don't we talk about gun control's purpose for a moment. What is it? To reduce crime? Well there's a mountain of evidence that shows it doesn't and quite a bit to show it makes crime worse. I believe it is the mechanics of a corrupt and power hungry system that is deathly afraid that enough of us will simply say it can have no more of my money, or at least that we will make it justify and effiently use it for only the necessary things (which will end their extravagance at my expense). That's my opinion. So rather than call me an a-hole and kook, let's hear why we even need these laws at all. What do we gain?? Is it doing anything positive beyond creating more government make-work jobs?
John Q Medic
5:52 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
I know someone will take exception to this post, but oh well. Gun control advocates often point to the word militia in the 2nd amendment. A couple things about this. Our fore fathers had a far better grasp on the english language than we do. Also understanding proper use of punctuation. Many scholars would agree to this. They were not referring to creating a national guard in the far too short writing of the 2nd amendment. Without trying to break down the amendment and get into different definitions to specific words within the amendment, there is one large fact to point out. The 2 amendment is one of the first ten amendments. These first ten amendments are referred to as the Bill of Rights. The Bill of Rights was specifically written to outline rights (freedoms) guaranteed to all citizens of the United States regardless of what state or commonwealth that citizen resides in. Meaning a state or commonwealth can not deny these freedoms, as they are protected federally. These rights are not for the government, military, government agents, etc. The national guard is a military force for the specific state it's in and the federal government. When in military service, a person is not a citizen. They do not have same rights as a citizen either. The Bill of Rights do not apply to a person in military service.
John Q Medic
5:56 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Also... Many refer to the "Minute Men" as a comparison to the National Guard. The Minute Men were citizens that banded together to unseat and overthrow a sitting government. They were not repelling a invading force. They certainly weren't off duty soldiers that were activated to be sent over to Iraq and Afganistan to execute the wishes of the federal government. The National Guard is part of the sitting government.
10:11 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Licenses are Unconstitutional anyway. Loosen up ALOT of the Gun Laws in Ma. and crime rates will again PLUMET instead of RISE like they have with every single additional gun law added.
7:42 am on Wednesday, December 12, 2012
I don't see the issue in doing away with the renewal process. Except of course the state won't get their money. If you are convicted of a crime that would make your license invalid it would get taken away. Seems pretty simple to me.
Michael Berry
11:03 am on Wednesday, December 12, 2012
My two cents. Here is a synopsis of what I think and believe: I agree with, and would support, lifetime licensing. The Commonwealth currently has too many gun laws. The laws are way too restrictive, complex and confusing (go try and read them). The 2nd amendment is the 2nd amendmen; a part of the ultimate "law of the land". I agree that police chiefs should not be abe to arbitrarily pick and choose who gets a license, what kind of license they can obtain and what restrictions can be imposed over and above what the 2nd amendment and federal law gaurantees, as long as they meet current federal requirements and restrictions under law. I am a proud American and a responsible gun owner. I served my country for eight years to protect these rights, along with the rights of all of the folks sharing their opinons on this subject. Anyone who feels the same should join GOAL, the NRA and any other organizations that support our 2nd amendment. To me it is black and white. Merry Christmas to all!
Carolyn Costain
11:35 am on Wednesday, December 12, 2012
I personally think that having to renew the lic. is a good thing and for safety reasons.Nobody knows what changes can happen to a person in 6 years. A person can become mentally unstable or suicidal or senile with age etc.Having to renew a Lic. helps give insight on that person thats renewing the lic. "Like at the RMV you get your eyes checked" If people didn't get them checked for driving a car ,we would have blind people still thinking they were OK to drive." I am not against people owning guns as long as, that person after 6 years is still mentally capable of having one. I think renewal of permits/Lic. should stand as they are for the Safety issues of owning a gun.
ken c
6:10 pm on Thursday, December 13, 2012
Everyone should be strapped...Bill of Rights 2nd Amendment.
1:20 pm on Friday, December 14, 2012
To all the gun supporters here who have labelled me as an anti-gun supporter because I believe there should be limits on the 2nd amendment just like there are limits on all the other amendments (Free Speech except for yelling fire in a crowded theatre) all I have to say to you is that you should read this article on Mother Jones website, it talks about how most of the mass shooting rampages were accomplished with legally bought guns. http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map
Also I hope you are all watching the news NOW about the shooting in CT were it seems up to 20 or more people were just murdered including up to 10 children. I just want you to think about this and all these other mass shootings if it turns out this killer had legally purchased guns.
I don't want to take the guns away from solid upstanding citizens but incidents like these are definitely not helping you gun advocates make your argument for loosened restrictions.
Think about this next time you go to the movies or drop your kid off at school.
I will not be responding to this thread anymore as I now believe this argument has had every valid point that could be made, made.
8:28 am on Sunday, December 23, 2012
Dan; There are regulations on the 2nd admentment now. An arm is concidered a weapon to protect yourself. A Nuclear war head falls in to that catagory. A grenade launcher also qualifies. Look up the definition of arms as weapons. The Government has imposed regulations in the past ansd will continue for the safety of the US citizens. The gun owners are grasping at straws as they see the restrictions being tightened. If the NRA had their way Surface to Air missles would be in every home.
Get in line and speak up in support of the 28th admendment. This admendment will ban automatic weapons and still give the gun owner the right to protect himself. Contact your local & state elected official via phone, letter or e-mail and speak your mind. Elected officials will do what ever the majority voter wants unless they do not want to get re-elected.
Sean Ward
3:14 pm on Friday, December 14, 2012
Every teacher and administrator at every school should be armed with a tazer at a minimum. There is no way to stop these people when they come in because the only good guys that are armed are 5 - 10 minutes away. Too late. I will be asking my childrens schools what they are doing to prevent this from happening here.
10:44 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Daniel, You did as many liberals do - use leftist websites like Mother Jones to support your position,...hardly an "impartial" source.
8:17 am on Sunday, December 23, 2012
A simple can of Hornet Spray made for your attic can do the job. The spray will project 30 feet in to a persons face and cannot be stopped by any bullet proof vest. The Hornet Spray doesn't kill and will stop anyone instantly in their tracks. No license or federal regulation required and you can buy a can at your local hardware store. You do not need a bigger gun, just a better weapon.
8:37 pm on Monday, February 25, 2013
My comments were too long and because I cannot get my point across in 1500 characters, I decline comment. I'll leave this site to the less passionate!


text:
a little new cms has born
Hi, I am not a designer, but have a lot of fun programming with php. I have created a new cms, you can see it here:
I think that it could be interesting for designers because is very simple use it with any web template, front page is made by one file (index.php).
I wait for feedback and criticism... ;)it's not to shabby. I like the color choices. easy to read, consistent navigation. not bad overall.Many thanks Cybershot, design is based on a free template by sixshootermedia.com.
The url to see my cms in action (and download it too) has changed, now is online at http://www.sebrac.webcindario.com. Byeit looks like a domain squatter type page. you know, like when you mistype a url and stuff.. it may help to showcase more of your app's functionality in the demo.. i seriously thought the site was down and the link was old.. :oops:Just like I say in my second post the correct url is: http://www.sebrac.webcindario.com, is working fine, I don't know if sometimes goes down, but this is normal for almost all hostings. Soon (I mean) there will be an online demo on opensourcecms.com ;)

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Fusion Jacket (Men's)
Product Number: 28879
Fusing together maximum internal comfort with solid wind and moisture protection, the Fusion Jacket is ideal for fickle conditions. Marmot M2 softshell fabric provides lightweight and breathable protection that's windproof and water resistant, while DriClime® Mesh™ lining offers moisture management for a core that's cool and dry. Durable stretch nylon in back and side panels keep you charging ahead, and 360⁰ reflectivity keep you seen and safe.
- Marmot M2 Softshell
- Windproof, Water Resistant, and Breathable
- Zonal Placed Interior DriClime Mesh™ Wicking Lining
- Zip Chest Pocket
- Zippered Hand Pockets
- 360 Reflectivity
- Elastic Bound Cuffs with Thumb Holes
- Media Port
- Elastic Draw Cord Hem
- Angel-Wing Movement™
- Center Back Length: 28in
Gender: Men's
Weight: 8.8oz (249.5g)
Material: WP Softshell Polyester, DriClime
Fit: Athletic Fit
Season: S13
Vendor ProductId: 50720
Review ProductId: 28879


text:
The Music Pier Box Office is located on the boardwalk at Moorlyn Terrace between 8th and 9th Streets. The Box Office is open seven days a week from 9 am to 9 pm during the summer season.
Mark has been a member of the Ocean City Pops since 1998. For more than a decade Mark has been busy working on touring Broadway shows having played on the National tours of "Les Miserables" (1750 performances!), "Edward Scissorhands", and "My Fair Lady". Currently he is the drummer with the National tour of "Mary Poppins". In addition to his percussion duties, Mark is also the Personnel Manager and Music Librarian for the POPS.
Mark is a former staff percussionist at Opryland, U.S.A. in Nashville, and was a member of "The President's Own" United States Marine Band from 1994-98. Mark performs frequently with Pops pianist, Jeffrey Uhlig. They have released 2 CD's featuring mallet percussion and piano; "Classics to Ragtime" in 2006 and "A Keyboard Christmas" in 2012.


text:
The Helms School of Government prepares students to understand and articulate the Biblical Christian sources of our religious, economic and political liberties, and equip them to become Christ-centered leaders, able to apply God's Word in every area of life.
The Helms School of Government currently offers ten residential degree programs. Students from other disciplines can pursue minors in Government, Criminal Justice, International Relations, Politics and Policy, Western Legal Traditions and Strategic Intelligence Studies, one of which is also offered as an online program.
Academics |
Learn More |
News & Events |
Degree Programs | Give to HSOG | News & Speakers |
Societies and Clubs | Dress Code | Photo Gallery |
Careers | Resources | |
Center for Pre Law Studies | Meet the Faculty | |
Internships | About Us | |
Student Advising |


text:
Error 404
The selected page was not found. It may be temporarily unavailable, or it may not exist at all. Please try again later.
The selected page was not found. It may be temporarily unavailable, or it may not exist at all. Please try again later.
Hey, yeah, sorry about the delay for Monday's comic. I've been practically bedridden the last day or so from a bug that really knocked me off my feet. I haven't had any opportunity to work on the comic until recently. The new comic has been started, but I'm running pretty much completely on meds at the moment. I'll do the best I can. Expect it to arrive on Wednesday.
Well, here we are, on our new private server. 2kinds.com has finally been moved over and twokindscomic.com will be moved over soon. I'm sorry for all the delays and the problems that have come about because of the server issues. I hope that it will all be behind us now. This new private server is still untested, so there may still be problems cropping up in the future. But I certainly hope the biggest issues are over. I hope you will enjoy Twokinds' new home. Meanwhile, now that the server issues are resolved, I will work my best to get a new comic completely and published shortly. With any luck, I think I can have it done and out to you as soon as Friday. Cross your fingers.
For the last few weeks I have been having a lot of problems with malware infecting the servers that Twokinds is hosted on. Periodically, it will inject an invisible iframe into the code causing problems and virus warnings to appear. It's an easy fix, but annoyingly reaccuring. Unfortunately, this time, I was asleep when it happened, and couldn't respond in time. Google declared the website bad, even after I fixed it. So I've moved the entire website to twokindscomic.com until the problem can be resolved.
But of course this is only a temparary solution. The problem remains that the host I am currently under is no longer secure, with all these virus problems continuously popping up. Therefor, I am preforming a server move now. Twokinds will be leaving ixwebhosting soon, and moving to a hopefully more secure private server from another provider. Expect some downtime as I preform the move.
I formally apologize for all the problems these malware bots have put all of us through. I hope it hasn't put you off from the comic. I will do everything in my power to try and put an end to these issues in the future.


text:
WELCOME to The Sun's 'Hold Ye Front Page' site - our history of the world told through Sun front pages and short, fact-packed articles explaining the background to each story.
Most of the Sun pages never really appeared in the paper . . . we've only been around since 1969, after all! But we hope you find them fun, and informative too. This home page has just a few examples . . . you'll find many, many more by clicking on History, Science, or Sport.
Within the factual History pages you will also find a few of the most entertaining Biblical tales and ancient myths, placed roughly around the time they are meant to have happened.
If you have any suggestions about the site, any of the subjects covered, or NOT covered, please email us. We'd love to hear them.
THE best-known date in British history, it marks the last successful invasion of England by force
BRITISH archaeologist Howard Carter found the boy Pharoah Tutankhamun's tomb – and the treasure within
GUNPOWDER was the first explosive invented, triggering an era of deadly weaponry that goes on today
DISCOVERY of Uranus, the first 'new' planet found in centuries, began golden era for astronomy
ENGLISH football's greatest victory engulfed the nation in joy, but it shows no signs of ever being repeated
RARELY has a cricketer captured hearts like Ian Botham in a series he won almost single-handed


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Published January 17, 2013, 08:35 AM
Oratorio Society invites singers
The Phipps Oratorio Society is a regional community chorus that annually performs major works for chorus, orchestra, and soloists. Membership is open to any interested singer of high school age and older without audition. Prior singing experience as well as basic musicianship skills are helpful. A membership fee of $25 helps to defray the costs of the performance.


text:
here are some pictures that just came out for PS3:
* Product name: PlayStation 3
* Backwards compatibility w/PS2 + PSOne (DVD, CD)
Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy
total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS
RSX @550MHz
1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance
Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels
Multi-way programmable parallel floating point shader pipelines
* Sound
Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell- base processing)
* Memory
256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz 256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz
* System Bandwidth
Main RAM 25.6GB/s
VRAM 22.4GB/s
RSX 20GB/s (write) + 15GB/s (read)
SB< 2.5GB/s (write) + 2.5GB/s (read)
* System Floating Point Performance
* Storage
Detachable 2.5" HDD slot x 1
USB Front x 4, Rear x 2 (USB2.0)
Memory Stick standard/Duo, PRO x 1
SD standard/mini x 1
CompactFlash (Type I, II) x 1
* Communication
Ethernet (10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX, 1000BASE-T) x 3 (input x 1 + output x 2)
Wi-Fi IEEE 802.11 b/g
Bluetooth 2.0 (EDR)
* Controller
Bluetooth (up to 7)
USB 2.0 (wired)
Wi-Fi (PSP)
Network (over IP)
* AV Output
Screen size: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
HDMI: HDMI out x 2
Analog: AV MULTI OUT x 1
Digital audio: DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL) x 1
* Disc Media
CD PlayStation CD-ROM, PlayStation 2 CD-ROM, CD-DA, CD-DA (ROM), CD-R, CD-RW, SACD, SACD Hybrid (CD layer), SACD HD, DualDisc, DualDisc (audio side), DualDisc (DVD side)
DVD: PlayStation 2 DVD-ROM, PlayStation 3 DVD-ROM, DVD-Video, DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW
Blu-ray Disc: PlayStation 3 BD-ROM, BD-Video, BD-ROM, BD-R, BD-RE
PS3 pic + Specs...
Started by Noor, May 17 2005 12:14 AM
4 replies to this topic
Posted 17 May 2005 - 12:14 AM
"What ever happened to happily ever after?"
Posted 17 May 2005 - 01:50 AM
likewise, any idea how big the "storage" will be?
Posted 18 May 2005 - 12:51 AM
The back of it makes it look kind of like a fat, keyboardless Amiga.
Posted 18 May 2005 - 03:42 PM
If you guys have a fileplanet account, go download the 800 meg E3 Conference from Sony for the PS3. It is simply amazing. They had a realtime demo of the unreal 3 engine that is just pure gold. Tons of other great stuff as well.
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Take it from me, it's hard to find an oasis in the middle of Collins Avenue on the busiest week of the year in Miami, that is, unless of course you were invited to the exclusive Belvedere Music Lounge at the W Hotel in South Beach.
Past the bevy of sunbathing 20-somethings at the guest pool and through a winding grove was a lush space filled with plush white lounge furniture, bars that served three different complimentary Belvedere drinks and a refreshingly attractive and sophisticated crowd. Oh, and not to mention some of the biggest names in dance music as well as fresh talent behind the decks.
Miami Music Week favorites Nicky Romero and Arty provided an afternoon soundtrack for guests as well as Tiesto, Nervo, Sander Van Doorn, Gabriel and Dresden and many more. David Guetta, Afrojack, Avicii, Above & Beyond, Diplo, Kaskade and Steve Aoki were just a few of the heavy hitters that stopped by to check out the lounge.
Known for exposing young blood, Belvedere also chose New York's own David Berrie and John Hamilton among others to display their skills and favorite tracks.
The luxurious event, which was also sponsored by Sirius XM Radio, Sol Republic, Vita Coco and Fiji Water, took place over the course of three days (March 22-March 24) and lasted each day until 7 PM just before the sun went down and people retreated to get ready for the night's festivities.
Upon entry, guests were approached by strikingly stunning models in white bikinis carrying iPads that when shaken mixed a delicious drink via a slot-machine, drink-shaker app. This unique incorporation allowed consumers to engage with the brand on a playfully interactive level that was consistent with the brand's forward thinking image. The most popular drink was then displayed on a large flat screen television behind the main bar. Guests were also encouraged to tweet their experience using the BELVEMUSIC hashtag, which was displayed on stickers that graced the model's iPads and some guests t-shirts. The party extended into the W Hotel's residents quarters, allowing Belve Music Lounge guests to take a quick dip in the private pool or (provided you had a VIP bracelet) retreat in a bungalow deeply situated which was filled with food and a private bar.
Contrary to the rest of Miami Music Week parties throughout the course of the week, most people did keep their shirts on and no one pushed their way to the front of the stage. It was relaxed and a time for industry folks to exchange a few non-business related words, have a refreshing cocktail, check out limited edition Belvedere bottles and enjoy some music.
There's no doubt Miami Music Week in its entirety is a scene, but the Belvedere Music Lounge provided people with an opportunity to attend an "unscene" party. And in the middle of a week filled with watching people use sidewalks as bathrooms and cab windows for consumed liquor depositories, this was the ideal way to break up an otherwise seemingly debaucherous week.


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The Oakland Press (theoaklandpress.com), Serving Oakland County
News > Cops & Courts
Monday, December 3, 2012 8:53 PM EST
By JOHN TURK
Of The Oakland Press
email@example.com; Twitter: @jrturk
A Pinckney man was killed in Rose Township on Saturday, according to a Michigan State police report.
Troopers were dispatched to Green Cove Road on report of a homicide at around 7 p.m. and found 35-year-old Charles MacDonald Shiffman dead at the scene.
The suspect — who authorities are keeping unidentified until arraignment — left the scene with a woman before troopers arrived, officials said.
Both the suspect and the woman were found within an hour.
The suspect was arrested and taken to the Oakland County Jail. The woman, 31-year-old Jessica Kennedy, was taken to the University of Michigan Hospital in Ann Arbor, where she was treated for non-life threatening injuries.
While police did not specify how the incident occurred, neighbors report that the homicide was a possible shooting or stabbing.
No further information was immediately given by the Michigan State Police early Monday morning. The investigation remains open, authorities say.
Contact staff writer John Turk at 248-745-4613 or email@example.com.


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One of those teams, Lafayette High School, walked away with its first boys state title in addition to capturing a few individual first-place finishes.
The Commodores showed how successful a team can be with a common goal and hard work.
"Our guys did a great job all year," said Commodores head coach Dennis Robbins. "They stayed focused and pulled through for us. We only have two seniors leaving, so we're going to look good next year if we keep our focus and continue to work hard."
Lafayette senior Jeremy Williams closed out his final year with a first-place finish in the 275-pound division.
"Today was my best day ever," the senior said. "I squatted 600 pounds."
Junior Daquez Sommerville believes there's a solid future for the Commodore powerlifting team.
"The more we work the stronger we get," he said. "We get better as we go."
Calhoun City chalked up two individual champions, T.J. Clanton and Lindsey Liles, as well as a second-place finish for the boys team.
Clanton, a senior, said he enjoys the challenge the deadlift offers.
"It makes me work harder because it's the hardest event," said Clanton, who was a 2009 Daily Journal All-Area Second-Team football selection.
A junior who entered Saturday's meet among the Elite 11 girls powerlifters, Liles echoed his statement.
"You can't fake a deadlift," she said. "You have to do it right."
Tupelo's Chris Donald, a football player who has committed to Northeast Mississippi Community College, did it right and then some in the 220-pound division in Class 6A. The Super 12 lifter took home a first-place finish by lifting a total of 1,505 pounds on Saturday.
Curtis Virges of West Point is starting to get used to winning state titles in Jackson. Fresh off the Green Wave football team's Class 5A state championship win at Jackson's Memorial Stadium, the star defensive lineman and Mississippi State commitment was on top of the Class 5A 308-pound category with a total of 1,545 pounds lifted.
Speaking of star football players, Itawamba AHS' DeShawn McGaughy, a running back and Itawamba Community College signee, won his third state powerlifting title in as many years, his second straight in the 198-pound division.
Also stepping to the Class 4A podium from Itawamba AHS was Ben Brewer in 148-pound division. Brewer is also a football player.
Successful sport
Perry Liles, Calhoun City's coach and the state meet's director, said powerlifting in Mississippi has progressed since 1993 from a single-classification event to what is seen today: an event involving six boys and three girls classifications with nine platforms being used on the floor of the 6,500-seat Mississippi Coliseum in nearby downtown Jackson.
"We've grown over the years," Liles said. "We're excited that we are up to 144 teams. We've definitely seen growth, and having it in the Mississippi Coliseum makes it one of the largest competitions I've ever attended.
"I'm really proud of the coaches who have helped me out and have worked with their teams."
He also said judges and volunteers have played a key role in getting this event to where it is today.
"I can't do this by myself, and they have really helped me out," the state meet director said.
Just as the future of the sport seems to be growing statewide, Liles spoke of some new changes in the works for MHSAA powerlifting. New teams and changes in the way judging is done is on the top of the list for next year.
"Our judges did a great job this year, but we can always be more efficient," said Liles, who turned 46 on Saturday.
Contributing: Brandon Speck and John Wilbert.


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De Trafford Merlot 2008 Pure red berry and cherry fruit with intriguing dusty spearmint, nuts and spices, makes this an attractive bright red colour Merlot. These flavours follow through on the palate with lovely fine, dry tannins and a soft, long finish. High Constantia Malbec 2006 This wine offers a glorious nose of cassis and [...]
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Raven Clabough
Anti-Arizona Law Weekend Protests
Even after a federal judge removed the teeth of Arizona's controversial immigration law, S.B. 1070, hundreds of demonstrators in Arizona in protested the law on Thursday, July 29, the day the law went into effect. Thirty-two of the protestors were detained while 50 were arrested.
Dr. Good: Medical Care Without Federal Dollars
Dr. Alieta Eck (pictured) has had a long career in medicine, starting as a registered pharmacist before going to medical school. She graduated from the St. Louis University School of Medicine and then did a residency in Internal Medicine at Robert Wood Johnson University Hospital in New Brunswick, New Jersey. She is board certified in Internal Medicine and is part of a four-physician multi-specialty practice.
Appeals Court Critically Questions ObamaCare, Individual Mandate
The 11th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals began hearing arguments yesterday for the next legal battle over ObamaCare. The court's three presiding judges are reviewing the previous decision of Florida Judge Roger Vinson, who found the entire 2,700-page healthcare legislation to be unconstitutional.
Supreme Court Rejects Fast-Track Request for Obamacare Challenge
On Monday, the U.S. Supreme Court rejected a request from Virginia's Attorney General to expedite the legal process for the ObamaCare suit and instead required judicial review of the healthcare law to continue in federal appeals courts. As a result, the lawsuit must first be considered in appellate courts, where hearings are scheduled in May and June.
GOP Rep. Hints at ObamaCare Repeal Votes
Perhaps to the pleasure of Tea Party activists everywhere, Michigan's Republican Representative Fred Upton has hinted that House Republicans may have the necessary votes to repeal President Obama's healthcare law. Additionally, Upton indicates that the House Republicans may have enough votes to override a potential presidential veto of the repeal measure.
CDC Property Worth Millions Unaccounted For in 2007
If one needs further proof of the ineptness of government agencies, one need look no further than the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which reportedly lost millions of dollars worth of property in 2007. The CDC, while it does not dispute the claim, asserts that it has since located 99 percent of the lost property.
Judge Hints at Ruling Against Health Law
A Florida federal judge hinted on Thursday at the possibility of becoming the second judge to strike down the individual mandate provision of the healthcare law, asserting that it would be a "giant leap" for the Supreme Court to rule in its favor.
Can We Trust the CBO's Healthcare FIgures?
House Majority Whip James Clyburn and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi were positively giddy on Thursday morning when the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) released preliminary estimates of the financial impact of the House reconciliation package on national healthcare. The package is said to mirror the proposal President Obama outlined in February as a compromise between the bills passed in the House and Senate last year.
Autism Findings Retracted
Twelve years ago, the British medical journal The Lancet linked the measles-mumps-rubella vaccination to autism. Now the journal says that the study was compromised due to researcher Dr. Andrew Wakefield's reputed unethical and "callous disregard" for the children used in the study.
Most of Post-9/11 Vets Polled Say U.S. Must Focus Less on Foreign Wars
According to a recent opinion survey, one in three U.S. veterans of the post-9/11 military believe the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are not worth fighting, and a majority of those questioned said that after 10 years of military engagement in the Middle East, the United States should focus less on foreign wars and more on some of its own internal problems.