text:
Well Regulated
Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings. ~ John F. Kennedy
Like most reasonable people, I'm disgusted with what happened in Newtown Connecticut last Friday. Sadness and disbelief cast a pall over much of the office that afternoon. On Facebook and other social media, I started to see prayer chains, calls for peace and understanding. Nothing bad or offensive, but then I noticed a few outlandish items slowly start to creep in that bothered me. But for clarity and space, I'm only going to focus on one for this week's column.
"If the staff had been armed this could have been prevented."
Let that sink in for a minute. Arming teachers. In elementary school. Am I the only person who hears this and thinks, "That person must have been dropped on their head as a small child?" If you think that arming teachers is an answer to this issue, I'm not even sure you should be a part of the conversation that needs to happen.
Guns have never really been an "issue" of mine. I do not own any guns but neither do I live in fear of gun violence but enough is enough. We've had SEVEN mass shootings this year. SEVEN! I'm not in favor of repealing the Second Amendment but I am in favor of well-regulating it with severe penalties (including prison) and stiff fines if your legally obtained firearm is used in the commission of a crime where fatalities result. EVEN if the gun is stolen from you. If you are not responsible enough that you cannot adequately store your weapons, you should pay the price with criminal and civil liability.
I'm also in favor of registering all guns and closing the loop holes in the private gun market. Including mandatory classes and insurance coverage. Yes, I know that criminals will still use guns in the commission of crimes and they will be vigorously prosecuted like always. However, criminals are not going on mass shooting sprees. Seventy-five percent of all the guns used in the more than 60 mass shootings over the past 30 years were obtained legally. (Source: Mother Jones)
John Oliver summed it up best when he said, "One failed attempt at a shoe bomb and we all take off our shoes at the airport. Thirty-one school shootings since Columbine and no change in our gun regulation."
Not a single person died on that plane yet it spawned an over-reaction that still boggles my mind but we refuse to take action to prevent tragedies that involve firearms. Tim McVeigh blew up a building with fertilizer. Guess what? We now regulate and track the sale of fertilizer. For the love of Mike, I can't even buy the good Sudafed without having to show my license.
This right here:
"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, INSURE DOMESTIC TRANQUILITY, provide for the common defense, PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
Trumps this:
"A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
It doesn't get more general welfarey than being allowed to not die in your classroom or your place of worship. Save the tired arguments about forks and pencils. They're stupid. No one has killed a group of people by eating them to death nor has anyone died in a mass misspelling. I'm also pretty confident that no one has stabbed to death a room full of people with either a fork or a writing tool.
So this doesn't get twisted into something it's not, I AM NOT CALLING FOR A REPEAL on the Second Amendment. I'm calling for well-regulating it and if you can't handle some regulation perhaps you're not mature enough to be a gun owner.
Barbara Mulvey-Welsh is a mother, writer and blogger raising kids and a husband in Plymouth. Check out her blog at "Did I Say That Out Loud?" Use caution when reading around the family, there is some strong language.
mark cool
8:31 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
"WELL" needs definition! If by "WELL" you mean Australia crisis ~ It's been 12 months since gun owners "down-under" were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed.
The first year results are now in:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent, assaults are up 9.6 percent, armed robberies are up 44 percent. Given this measure of "Well Regulated" .. I'd definitely prefer INSURING MY OWN DOMESTIC TRANQUILITY. After all, PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE is best achieved in a society by developing codes of fundamental right and wrong, NOT by imposing codes of who can and can't keep and bear arms!
Barbara Mulvey-Welsh
9:17 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
It would certainly help your position, if you knew what you were talking about and were reasoning with actual facts.
About Australia - Here's a link to Snopes that explains it all in detail: http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp
In case you're a Snopes-denier; here's Fact-Check: http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/gun-control-in-australia/
If neither of those will persuade you then I'll assume you're part of the problem and not part of the solution.
White Feather
11:00 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Poor Barbara, here are the actual govt links to Australia.
Of course there are other countries that have recently tried gun bans, what effect did that have on their violence?
1997 Australia, Canada, England
Australia 1997 629 VCR per 100k 2011 1,259.4 VCR per 100k, a 32 person reduction in murders by firearms, exactly replaced by murders with knives. Funny how that trend was mirrored in England (ref http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/DetailsPage/4510.02011?OpenDocument
While your at it, can you go to figure #26 and explain to everyone how the use of sharp instruments, knives has increased, the same percentage as illegal use of a firearm has fallen in the commission of murders in Australia?
See, if gun control truly was the cause for the reduction in murders, there wouldn't be any replacement use by other means.
But hey, a 100% increase in aggravated assaults, burglaries, rapes and other violent crimes is a great trade off (over 50,000 crimes reported increase) for a couple dozen murders reduced that by the data was trend already occurring several years before their gun ban.
White Feather
11:00 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Which in part can also be attributed to the aging of the baby boomers. The largest statictical age group of people born soon after WW2. Criminalogists agree the most active criminal age for people is around 18-34 yrs old and the it declines. A trend mirrored in the US, and obviously in Asutralia as well, prove otherwise.
All while in the US..We see from US Census, and an average of NSSF & PEW surveys, that in 2009 40% of households have a firearm. That is an increase since 1997 of 9 million households to 80 million law abiding gun owners as recognized by the BATF.
We see from FBI NICS reports since 2000 we have gone from 8 mil background checks to 16.5 mil projected for 2012, which translates per the Brady Bunch to 4.5 mil new firearms in civilians hands each year.
We see that since 1997 per FBI UCR, that violent crime has gone from 611 VCR (Violent Crime Reported) per 100k people to 403 VCR per 100k people in 2010.
That is a 38% reduction in violent crime. Did we forget to mention that the same data shows a 26% reduction in murders?
White Feather
11:00 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
All while at the same time we see 16 more states reinstated concealed carry to 49 states total, and 35 states reinstated concealed carry in eateries that serve alcohol. 4 states and 200+ universities reinstated concealed carry. Not to mention self defense outside ones own home reinstated in 25 states with Stand your Ground, 24 Castle Doctrine (five pending change to Stand your Ground).
All without the predicted and much cried about blood baths predicted by such pundits suggests for oh what, something like the millionth time, yep. Those anti gun soothsayers really suck at predicting violence and mayhem from the law-abiding citizen, every single time. Hope they aren't trying to make a living as a soothsayer they are starving if they do.
So much for more guns in civilians hands equals more violence BS people like you believe.
So since not one single anti has ever proven gun control of the law abiding reduces violence by the career criminals, gang members, suiciders and crazies recognized by our govt to commit over 92% of killings by illegal use of a firearm each year, then you antis are indeed the problem.
David KEnt
5:23 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
I'm afraid, Mark, that Barbara has got you on this one. Factcheck.org does a fantastic job and it puts a complete lie to your point.
Example: The EMail you're relying upon talks about "12 months". Oops, the change was made 13 years ago!!! Excising a small period from a much larger trend is a CLASSIC tactic used by some to mislead us.
Jack Burton
10:43 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
google "Is the damage to society from the misuse of guns worth the freedom to have guns?" for a more mature reflection on the question
Barbara Mulvey-Welsh
11:45 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
I'm going to assume that you didn't mean to insult me by calling your own opinion on this issue "mature" implying that my opinion is less so, so I'll let it pass. I read what you wrote and not sure how it applies to what I wrote since I've not called for a ban or repeal.
Jack Burton
2:49 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Barb, I will leave it to others to decide that maturity level of those who want to punish the innocent for the deeds of the evil. Or those who refuse to use a 17th century definition of "well regulated" when appealing to what a 17th century document says about it.
Or to feel that somehow the 79,990,000 gun owners who did not hurt someone must jump through approved hoops because of the 10,000 who did. I am not sure why it would be mature to insist that the 99.999 percent are held accountable for the actions of the .001 percent.
If you want to consider those as the hallmarks of maturity then go for it.
But I am glad to know that you are fully in favor of people buying and owning ARs, AKs, .50 caliber rifles, handguns big enough to kill an elephant, and handguns small enough to drop into a shirt pocket.
Barbara Mulvey-Welsh
3:21 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Jack, punish? How do you get that conclusion? How is it punishing the innocent by requiring gun registration? How is it punishing the innocent to require training before handing over a potentially lethal weapon? We register cars and boats. Teens are required to undertake Driver's Education.
I don't make meth yet I'm required to show my license and have my name recorded to buy Sudafed. I'm not a terrorist but I have to take my shoes off to board a plane.
3:29 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
What about hand-grenades and land mines? There are no deaths in America by hand-grenades and land mines so why is my freedom to protect my home with land mines being infringed by big government? Shouldn't I have the right to defend myself with a hand-grenade if someone breaks into my home after negotiating the mine field?
Jack Burton
4:18 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Then let's go ahead and "register" people with their fingerprints and DNA, eh. Innocents won't object, and imagine the benefits.
Registration accomplishes nothing. You feel good to discuss it, but in actually making even the slightest difference in stopping or solving crimes it is meaningless. If you don't think making those who do no harm to others jump thru meaningless hoops to have a gun is wrong, then that is up to you.
You think it is common sense to require 79,990,000 people who won't hurt anyone with their guns to go thru "training" as if it is some magically talisman that is going to cure problems that don't exist. The 99.999% must do this because of the .001%.Do criminal go thru "training"? Is a "trained criminal" going to stop being a criminal?
Based upon what training in firearms costs around the country, we're looking at about $200 per person. Eighty million times $200... We are looking at 16,000,000,000, or sixteen BILLION dollars to solve exactly nothing. This is why when people such as Barb propose "common sense" regulations we know there is not mush sense in the regulations at all.
And last I looked, neither cars nor boats were in the Bill of Rights.
Yes, the nanny state is moving through the supermarkets and airlines. That doesn't make it correct, and it doesn't make it necessary for free citizens to roll over and continue to let it happen. If you're content with it it doesn't mean others are.
Jack Burton
4:20 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Patrick, when you find a National Handgrenade and Land Mine Association and a Handgrenade and Land Mine Control, Inc who are battling the issue out then get back to us. Otherwise your snark is telling much more about you than the issue at hand.
10:51 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
"Well-regulated", means well-trained. As anyone who takes 10 minutes to research could find out for themselves. Israel arms their teachers and has done so for over 30 years. Seems to work for them where they have highly motivated terrorists. The cowardly scum that commit these atrocities could be stopped with someone on the school premises with a gun, any gun, because they are cowards. It's been done in Texas in the Harrold Independent School District since 2007 with no incidents. Guns are tools of self-defense for law abiding citizens. That's why the police carry them. Until the police get there I would trust teachers to defend their students just as the teachers in Newtown tried to do but were unable because they did not have any tools. It is common sense to protect yourself and the ones you love with the best tool for the job. Anything less shows an ignorance of human nature and the fact that some people become evil and choose to do evil things. Good people must be able to protect themselves from evil people who try to harm them. Have a nice day.
Barbara Mulvey-Welsh
11:40 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Well-regulated means many things and I agree that part of the definition means well-trained should you desire to be a gun owner. In fact, training should be mandatory for owning a weapon. I do not accept that the way to prevent mass shootings in schools is by arming teachers. Your reference to Israel is comparing apples to oranges as Israel lives under a constant threat of war.
Many issues contribute to mass shootings and they all need to be addressed. Sensible regulation of guns is a necessary part of working to prevent these in the future. I don't have time to read up on the Texas School District you mentioned since I'm on a break from work so will refrain from commenting until I can.
Barbara Mulvey-Welsh
11:34 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
It appears from comments that are being posted, some people have either not read or did not comprehend what I wrote.
I have not called for a ban of guns nor have I addressed any specific gun laws, including conceal carry laws. I have called for more and better regulation. Who owns the gun, where/how is the gun stored, insurance, penalties in case the gun you own is used in the commission of a crime.
Commenting on what I ACTUALLY said would result in a better conversation.
Jack Burton
2:53 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Okay... let me comment on what you really said. My brother had his car stolen a few years back. The guy who stole it used it to grab a young girl off the street and rape her.
You would have my brother in jail for that, wouldn't you.
Barbara Mulvey-Welsh
3:07 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Actually that's not a comment on what I wrote but let me answer it this way: If we, as a country, had a 30 year history of cars being left unattended with keys in the ignition and they were being used to mass murder people; then yes, your brother should be in jail but since that's not the reality, it's not a very good analogy.
Jack Burton
4:23 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Barb... I know tens of thousands of firearm owners and I don't know a one who leaves their gun laying about on the lawn or the sidewalks. Do you believe they do?
And I am glad that you were honest enough to admit that my brother should be in jail. After all, rape is pretty serious, eh. It now pretty much proves my original post.
Barbara Mulvey-Welsh
4:48 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Actually, I said your brother should be in jail under the scenario I outlined and NOT in jail as you phrased your question. Reading comprehension is important.
Jack Burton
10:07 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
And there's not a dimes worth of difference between jailing an innocent person who had his gun stolen and used for bad things and jailing an innocent person who had his car stolen and used for bad things other than you don't like guns.
Barbara Mulvey-Welsh
11:46 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
White Feather, I do not have the time to fully read the links you provided. Once I do, I'll be happy to reply to you.
sue hobart
11:54 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
I do believe that a lot of the increased violence is spawned by the romance of violence and revenge in the media . Families end up allowing their children countless hours on their own with television, video games and nothing but time on their hands. The games and violence becomes addictive and obsessive.
The correlation to reality becomes warped.
All this pent up anger eventually needs release.
Haven't you seen a young person so involved in his 2 inch screen and thumb activity that you thought he would break the thing in half?
And if you can even get his attention the dazed look in their eyes after that intensity. ?
It's just plain not healthy.. We need to put away the outside time wasting twisted crap and provide healthy activities , or at least monitor what is going on. This stuff is poison for too many.
It still comes down to individual responsibility... for our individual families, children and communities. No legislation can make up for ignoring or excusing our own responsibility to teach moral behavior first.
Even without religion teach Do unto others as your would have them do unto you is the most crucial lesson we are missing all too often.
It's not even as easy as gun control... although we do make it easy by selling assault weapons.
Barbara Mulvey-Welsh
1:19 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Sue, I agree there's a lot of parental responsibility (or lack thereof) that needs to be addressed. It's a complex problem that will require a mix of complex and simple answers. I also agree that no legislation can make up for parenting but it can help to ensure that other children do not pay the price.
In the meantime, responsible gun owners can and should help shape national policy on regulations.
Jack Burton
2:55 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Barb... do you know that the NRA helped Congress shape and pass the "instant check" system used to prevent criminals from buying guns?
Do you know that the NRA helped shape and pass the law preventing those with mental problems from buying guns?
Do you know that the NRA helped shape and pass the law prohibiting bullets made from ultra dense material in order to better protect policemen?
Barbara Mulvey-Welsh
3:09 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
OK Jack, responsible gun owners should CONTINUE to help shape national policy. That better?
12:28 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
I love this article, Barbara! Thanks for writing it.
I'm going to add a couple of things to this discussion from the perspective of an ex-cop/gun owner/father/guy who grew up in a rural area on the Great Plains.
1. The idea of using a gun for self-defense is a joke and a delusion. If you have kids in your house and gun that is accessible enough to be used for home defense, you are a bad parent and should be arrested. My gun is secured so that my kids can't get at it and if they did, the ammo isn't with it. It's completely useless for home defense.
If you're carrying one around with you, what are you defending yourself from? If someone has already pulled a gun on you, you can't get your's out in time. It's physically impossible. It's why all of my police training on that sort of scenario involved punching people instead of shooting them. Same goes with knives. Do you know how much distance a person with a knife can cover before you can draw your pistol and fire two rounds? 20-25ft. Want to guess why I'm so specific on it?
The only defending you're going to do with a gun is when a crazy asshole is shooting into a crowd, you can draw your gun and also..shoot..into the..crowd? I'm sure you're awesome at the range, but I'm not going to discuss the effects adrenaline/stress and chaos have on your ability to shoot straight. It would take too long and the people who need to read have already stopped reading anyway.
mark cool
2:34 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
I would disagree with Patrick. I too come from a small farm community in the mid-west and spent 12 years in the military. Both backgrounds afforded valuable experience with firearms. Self-defense is no joke. I would hope proper training (I'm certain Patrick experienced) would advocate this point. Home defense must be effective and efficient and SAFE. I have two adult daughters and they weren't worse off for the wear for how I effected SAFE firearm home defense methods. I would contend that teaching children properly does not make me a bad parent as Patrick generalized so inappropriately. If someone has already pulled a gun on you, Patrick is right. You can't get your's out in time. However, most all Home Defense events involve the resident being aware that something is "not right" (noise, footsteps, other out-of-character traits) thus acute predisposition & preparedness for defense posturing is the advantage of the resident. The element of surprise would be completely squandered if choosing the tactic of "punching". (reality check!) Want to guess why I'm so specific on this? Also, phesants tastes great if properly prepared. Preparation, after all, can improve a lot of things.
Henry Bowman
4:02 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Patrick, you are lying or ignorant or both. Between 800,000 and 2.5M defensive gun uses per year, depending on the survey. Do the research. It is out there.
"There are approximately two million defensive gun uses (DGU's) per year by law abiding citizens. That was one of the findings in a national survey conducted by Gary Kleck, a Florida State University criminologist in 1993. Prior to Dr. Kleck's survey, thirteen other surveys indicated a range of between 800,000 to 2.5 million DGU's annually. However these surveys each had their flaws which prompted Dr. Kleck to conduct his own study specifically tailored to estimate the number of DGU's annually."
7:21 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Did this study take into account how many of those people had been threatened by black kids with skittles?
7:38 am on Thursday, December 20, 2012
Ok, Kleck's survey got to 2.5 million by asking 5000 people and 'extrapolating' which is sciency-talk for 'If 1 out of 5 says they like blue in 5000 people, then 1 out of 5 people must like blue in the rest of the 300 million people here.'
The reason Henry is citing a study done in 1993 is because every study (that I could find in the 10 minutes I gave to this) done since then says that guy was full of crap.
This sums it up well if you feel like reading. http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10881&page=112
12:28 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
2. All you need for hunting are a shotgun or a .30-06 and whether or not they are pump, bolt or semi-auto, you don't need more than 5 rounds. I don't care how fat the phesant is or how thick the woods, if you didn't hit the bird or the deer in the first 5 rounds, it's way too far gone by now for you to bother shooting at it anymore. Also, phesants taste like rubber chicken so I don't know why anyone bothers in the first place. Turkeys are worth shooting, but in New England you can just hit them with your car.
Henry Bowman
4:09 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
The last thing I want is a New England ex-cop telling me what I need or don't need, especially when the subject is hunting. Your ignorance is showing yet again. To put it in the simplest terms: There are many tools in the tool box. Yet the choices you suggest are a hammer and a screwdriver. There are mnay tools for many different purposes. I NEED THEM ALL.
7:24 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Was never a cop in New England, but that's not important. What's important is that there is apparently some kind of big game in the US I'm not aware of. Tell me, Henry, what are you hunting that can't be brought down with a .30-06 or 12 gauge? Do we have elephants here?
12:32 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Oh, man! My appologies for my terrible grammar. Proofreading is important, people!
1:22 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Your reasoning is a non sequitur on two glaring points.
The first is that an amendment ratified AFTER the Preamble was written, precisely to put the guarantee in writing, is not trumped by that which has been modified.
The second is that registration is an impermissible avenue to confiscation. Registration is tantamount to a snake coiling before it strikes.
You people need to get it through your heads that this is a fundamental right we are discussing, not mere policy. Fundamental rights are set above and beyond political and/or popular meddling, and it is this concept that undergirds our liberty.
Barbara Mulvey-Welsh
1:42 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
We can absolutely impose reasonable limits on rights. We may differ as to what those limits are and what they should be, but we can, and do, impose them. No yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theater comes to mind.
Jack Burton
3:00 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Barb... did you know that it is perfectly legal to yell "fire" in a crowded theater? Here's is one of the most liberal law professors in the country to explain it to you...
[scroll down to read it]
Anyone who falsely shouts fire in a theater with the intent to harm others by creating a panic will be judged for his ACTIONS.
There is no requirement that theater goers must wear a muzzle to ensure that something "bad won't happen in the future."
Yet, you and most others who are calling for greater "regulations" are doing just that... demanding that because something "might happen" that you want to muzzle every single gunowner regardless of if he has actually DONE anything.
Barbara Mulvey-Welsh
3:23 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Jack, explain to me how requiring gun registration is akin to muzzling you?
Jack Burton
4:28 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Explain how requiring a writer of a letter to the editor to get government approval first on the letter is not muzzling him.
Explain how requiring a pastor to get prior approval of his sermon is not muzzling him.
Explain how requiring the owners of all printing presses to register their press with the government is not muzzling them.
Do you have a problem with the concept of "privacy" and that not everything we do is the business of the governments?
Do you know that many governments, even here in the U.S. have used gun registration as the first step in gun confiscation?
Do you know that a "car" doesn't need to be registered if it is only used on your own property? (so please don't give that discredited "but we register cars!!!!")
Barbara Mulvey-Welsh
1:22 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Thank you Patrick for adding that to the discussion. No grammar police here; I play fast and loose with the rules anyway. Especially if I'm trying to make a point.
1:28 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Oh, and Barbara...?
A third point is that the term "well-regulated" modifies the noun "militia", not the noun "right". It isn't even in the same clause. It is the militia that is to be well-regulated, when acting in the capacity of a militia. The right is unconditional.
See: http://www.gunthorp.com/Second%20amendment%20explained.htm
2:37 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Barbara, you wrote: "We can absolutely impose reasonable limits on rights. We may differ as to what those limits are and what they should be, but we can, and do, impose them. No yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theater comes to mind."
Non sequitur. That imposes a limitation on behavior, not the right. It is alreadly illegal to commit murder and armed robbery.
Your argument is a fail.
Barbara Mulvey-Welsh
2:58 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Obviously, I disagree. Regulation, in this case, yelling "Fire", is a limiting force on the First Amendment since it clearly places limits on that right. The limitation is intended to INSURE DOMESTIC TRANQUILITY and promote the GENERAL WELFARE by not inciting panic in a crowded public venue.
3:36 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
If that's the case, BHirsh, where does the government get off preventing me from driving a fully armed tank to work? The second amendment doesn't specify which arms I have the right to so it's completely unconstitutional for the government to say I can't have a tank. I would also like my own F-15 because I am sick of taking my shoes off at the airport.
5:45 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Patrick, the Second Amendment deals with guaranteeing the keeping and bearing of small arms in common use that have military utility.
Your argument is hyperbolic nonsense.
7:26 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Not so! The second amendment, in it's entirety, states:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
That's the whole thing. I thought I had missed something, but that's the entire thing. Tank please.
Jack Burton
4:30 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Lots of people legally own tanks, and yes, an F-15. There is no law against it.
5:47 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Yep, that's true. But be honest, Jack. Those arms on those instruments must be deactivated for them to be legal.
7:38 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
AND you can't drive them on the highway, which infringes on my right to squish Priuses..Priusi?
Jack Burton
4:31 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Barb... as noted in the good professors article, you're disagreeing with a lot of supreme court rulings and history if you think that punishing yelling fire in a theater doesn't interfere whit the right to speech.
5:49 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Jack, it's obvious that most of these well-intentioned people really haven't a clue about precedent and its effect on the government's ability to act. It is also obvious that they truly don't understand the intractibility of natural rights.
Barbara Mulvey-Welsh
4:46 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
JB, seems like you're not interested in a conversation so much as shouting match with anyone you disagree with regardless of the content of the comment you are responding to. Since I have a full and active life, and I'm only paid so much to argue with internet trolls, I'm done responding to you.
Jack Burton
10:10 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
shouting match = winning with logic, facts and questions that make pro gun control people look foolish
5:42 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Barbara, you wrote: "Obviously, I disagree. Regulation, in this case, yelling "Fire", is a limiting force on the First Amendment since it clearly places limits on that right. The limitation is intended to INSURE DOMESTIC TRANQUILITY and promote the GENERAL WELFARE by not inciting panic in a crowded public venue."
Again, you're citing an overview that is trumped by an enumerated right. It is not illegal to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater if there is indeed a fire. It is illegal to do so when there isn't one.
Carrying concealed handguns, or keeping semiauto rifles at home and using them to practice at the range or hunt game is not inciting public panic. It is the BEHAVIOR of those who invade "gun-free zones" and shoot people that is illegal.
No offense, but your logic, isn't.
David KEnt
6:18 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Perhaps Barbara's use of the two components of the constitution isn't a good way to argue for gun regulation. I've got a better one for you: The landmark 2008 Supreme Court case that found, once and for all, that the possession of firearms cannot be outlawed – District of Columbia vs. Heller.
This case and the MacDonald case that extended its decisions to the States, basically read the "militia clause" of the 2nd Amendment out of the Constitution, leaving a broad right to possess firearms. But the judges took great pains to emphasize that it iSVERY LEGAL to regulate the possession of firearms. In particular, this clause from the decisions is important in this discussion:
"Miller's holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those "in common use at the time" finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons".
So, the most important and very recent (2008) constitutional source on this says that we ARE allowed to prohibit "dangerous and unusual weapons". Now reasonable people can disagree on the definition of "dangerous", but to me an AR-15 with large ammo clips qualifies as "dangerous".
The sale of military style weapons CAN be prohibited.
Jack Burton
10:13 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
David... EVERY gun is dangerous. I don't know of a one that isn't, and that even includes Daisy air rifles. It doesn't say "dangerous OR unusual" it says, "dangerous AND unusual" by your own admission. Since there are millions upon millions of ARs and AKs in the hands of law abiding citizens who are not using them to harm anyone it is going to be a tough sell claiming that they are either especially dangerous or unusual.
David KEnt
6:44 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
Jack Burton says:
There are "millions upon millions of ARs and AKs in the hands of law abiding citizens"
Hmmmm… not according to the Congressional Research Service…
… which says of the United States in 2009:
"By the year 2009 the estimated total number of firearms available to civilians in the U.S. had increased to approximately 310 million: 114 million handguns, 110 million rifles, and 86 million shotguns" … "data are not available on the number of 'assault weapons' in private possession or available for sale, but one study estimated that 1.5 million assault weapons were privately owned in 1994."
Let's see: 1.5 million out of 310 million: That's less than a whopping one half of one percent Jack! Now, the assault weapon estimate is pretty old. Why don't I give you the benefit of the doubt and double the assault weapon percentage to 1%.
I'm sorry Jack, but Americans don't own "millions upon millions" of assault weapons. Assault weapons most definitely ARE unusual.
David KEnt
5:58 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Each and every law and every regulation in each and every country in the world represents a restriction of someone's freedom. Each defines something that cannot be done or puts some limit on doing something. So, when it comes to deciding upon a new law or regulation, such as beefing up gun regulations, a cost/benefit analysis must be performed:
Benefit: The magnitude of the benefit of the law or regulation to society
Cost: The magnitude of the loss of personal freedom
There should be no corner of society where a group can operate as it wishes with wanton disregard for the larger good of society.
But that is exactly what gun owners demand when they oppose ANY new gun regulations out of hand. It is not necessary, they argue, to consider the needs of society when considering gun laws. Rather, by definition, ANY increase in gun regulation causes an unacceptable loss of gun owner personal freedom. So, by definition, ANY new regulation of firearms is OUT!
Gun owners should not be allowed to be perhaps the ONLY segment of our population with enough muscle to elbow out consideration of the good of society.
New regulations that would help keep military style weapons out of the hands of mentally disturbed mass murders would benefit society by making those people less lethal. And the cost to personal freedom? Gun owners can't purchase military weapons. Not much of a comparison is it?
Henry Bowman
6:23 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
"New regulations that would help keep military style weapons out of the hands of mentally disturbed mass murders would benefit society by making those people less lethal."
If the mentally disturbed are too dangerous to be trusted with a weapon, then they should be incarcerated. The benifit to society is to remove the violent from society, not restrict a right further
David KEnt
6:43 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Sorry Henry, you can't make me fall for that one: I can hold more than one concept in my mind at once.
Concept 1: As you say, society should do a better job of identifying, treating and if necessary incarcerating the mentally disturbed people who become mass murders.
Concept 2: Since Concept 1 will never be implemented perfectly, we should also outlaw the sale of military-style weapons that enable disturbed individuals to kill people rapidly.
Both are correct. Both should be done. But your emphasis of the former does not negate the correctness of the latter
7:14 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
David Kent, you wrote: "The sale of military style weapons CAN be prohibited."
No, David, they can't. The Miller test specifically protects arms in common use (which they are) that bear some reasonable relationship to the preservation . . . of a well-regulated militia (which they also do).
It is black-letter.
David KEnt
8:01 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Oh come on BHirsh, you know darn well that military style weapons are not "in common use". Well, what we're debating here is that they are TOO COMMON but the weapons that are in common use are hand guns and guns used for hunting.
You also avoided the term "dangerous" in the SCOTUS decision. Now, reasonable people can disagree on what's "dangerous" but I personally believe that military style guns with high capacity ammo clips are very dangerous.
11:38 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
The test in Miller stated (incorrectly) that the short barreled shotgun was NOT an arm the military used and therefore was not protected. Therefore, arms used by the military, such as select fire assault rifles, should, under that ruling be legal. If those arms are legal, then surely the semi-automatic versions cannot be illegal. Secondarily, the AR platform rifles are the most common rifle in use today in America. Furthermore, if not for the NFA of 1934, fully automatic firearms and short barreled shotguns would be much more common. As for who needs these firearms, just ask the Korean merchants who, during the LA riots, when abandoned by the police, used these types of firearms to protect themselves and their stores.....
7:18 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
David Kent, you wrote: "Concept 2: Since Concept 1 will never be implemented perfectly, we should also outlaw the sale of military-style weapons that enable disturbed individuals to kill people rapidly."
It can't and won't happen, for a number of reasons. The first is that there aren't the votes in the House to pass one. The second is that it runs afoul of constitutional protections set in precedent.
David, the intent of the amendment is to place the people on a par with government troops viz small arms. Clearly, the much-demonized-because-they're-scary-looking-but-actually-quite-common "assault weapons" (sic) fit the purpose EXACTLY.
You can't get there from here.
David KEnt
8:07 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
I"m afraid, BHirsh that you'll have to explain "it runs afoul of constitutional protections set in precedent". And to do that usefully, you'll have to be specific. I have been specific by quoting the Heller Decision that expressly states that the ownership of guns CAN be regulated.
As to interpretation of "the amendment": I don't need to rely upon your interpretation because the Heller and MacDonald SCOTUS decisions have done that that for us very recently. And they say that gun ownership can't be banned but it CAN be regulated, including prohibiting types of weapons.
I'm sorry BHirsh, it's all in Heller and MacDonald and that's the current law of the land, i.e., current constitutional interpretation.
11:09 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
I am just a common citizen - I work, have two kids and go about my business. I do not own a gun but have no issue with other folks owning them for hunting or home protection or target practice or other such things. I am extremely alarmed however by the tone of the gun advocates here. Quite frankly I have not paid much attention to the gun control debate but rather than winning me over the pro-gun folks here may have frightened me into action. I am amazed at the arrogance of those writing and the ascertian that owning as many or whatever kind of gun and ammo is a sacred right handed down by God and not to be questioned. I believe the inalienable rights are life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Of course I understand that the right to bear arms is a Constitutional right but to argue that that right extends to all weapons and no one may challenge it is frankly frightening.
If this is the vision the NRA and the gun lobby continue to put forward I would hope that Americans like myself, that perhaps have been complacent for too long, will stand up and demand common sense gun control. I plan to write the president and my congressmen and further investigate how to support gun control efforts (maybe the Brady Foundation). I should thank you folks for opening my eyes and spurring me to get involved.
David KEnt
12:48 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
Wow Diane, it can't be said much better than that!
As the "vision of the NRA" you're seeing it here in the attitudes of gun advocates. NO LIMITATIONS WHATSOEVER. The heck with the good of the country! We DEMAND our guns! Full stop.
1:09 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
Really Barbra you started it when you said "That person must have been dropped on their head as a small child?" because they had an opinion different than yours. While it is a knee jerk reaction to a tragic occurrence, arming teachers may or may not have averted several horrific tragedies from occurring across this country recently.
My daughter's middle school has an armed police or resource officer in her school. That's OK? Because he is a sworn peace officer? Police are people also just like teachers. I can think of as many reasons where this can go bad as well as not. What if the teacher was a sworn peace officer also? What would be the difference? What if the teacher had specific training and stringent mental health requirements? My resource officer was simply picked because he had seniority in the department. He may consume alcohol with lunch for all I know. He may despise being stuck in a school full of kids. Maybe he moonlights and is half asleep during the day. Probably he is a competent, caring trusted individual just like a vast majority of my daughters teachers. While I currently don't believe arming teachers is the answer I am certainly open to an intelligent discussion on the pros and cons of the matter.
David KEnt
3:09 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
I have no problem with schools having a designated, uniformed, armed officer. I'm a teacher and have seen that in multiple schools. Since this person is obviously a security officer and since he or she is trained as such, this is fine. Perhaps that's one of the takeaways from Newtown.
Beyond that, however, I cannot see it.
First, there is plenty of data out there that shows that more guns means more gun violence. If we make guns prevalent throughout schools, we'll have more not less violence.
Second, principals and teachers must remain focused on teaching and NOT be asked to become security officers themselves.
Finally, can anyone envisage a class with a teacher at the front of the room with a loaded handgun at his/her hip?
mark cool
7:24 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
David - you wrote: ... there is plenty of data out there that shows that more guns mean more gun violence. ~ I won't disputing that. Yet I truly don't thing think that's the fundamental argument. Rather, I think the fear of those law abiding, God fearing, good people out there, bearing witness to the developing societal chasm of differences, don't want to be left defenseless against the "bad guys" that have uninhibited access to "unreasonable" firepower. Do you think for one second, any of those Fathers in Newtown, if witness to the horrific deed on their child, wouldn't have wishes he had been there with a bazooka to defend his child? In simplest terms, I believe all would go to the nines to defend family or home. The true question is whether it's "appropriate" to place a disadvantage on those that would defend wives, sons or daughters? If folks would answer honestly, without the echoes of "jumbya" filtering their instinctual response, I think the the answer would be clear. We started this conversation with more guns translating into more violence... and I agree. More violence would be on those law abiding, God fearing, good people out there that utter words of temperance and misplaced trust in enforcement of current law. I pray none of us have such an ordeal, but if the ordeal is ever realized, I pray I (if not others) am not the sheep confronted by the wolf.
David KEnt
8:02 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
Come on Mark, do you really think that people are buying AR-15s with large ammo clips to protect their families? No way man! Those types of weapons are being purchased by collectors and by guys who just love the feel of a bad a** weapon in their hands.
Have you ever heard of a home invasion by people armed with military-style weapons? Perhaps you have, but let's be sensible here: That's EXCEEDINGLY rare. No, hand guns are the dominant weapons of choice for home invaders, that is, by people who threaten families. So a hand gun, or perhaps a conventional rifle, is the appropriate weapon for someone looking to protect his/her family. There's no need for them to arm up as if they're patrolling a dangerous sector of Baghdad!
Now, even if home owners DID employ assault weapons, that wouldn't be a problem if a side effect of that didn't exist: The fact that they're also available to mentally unstable people like the Newtown shooter. But, as we see over and over, that side effect does exist. So, allowing average citizens to overarm with assault weapons is bad for society.
7:39 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
David KEnt, you wrote: Jack Burton says:
There are "millions upon millions of ARs and AKs in the hands of law abiding citizens"
Hmmmm… not according to the Congressional Research Service…
… which says of the United States in 2009:
"By the year 2009 the estimated total number of firearms available to civilians in the U.S. had increased to approximately 310 million: 114 million handguns, 110 million rifles, and 86 million shotguns" … "data are not available on the number of 'assault weapons' in private possession or available for sale, but one study estimated that 1.5 million assault weapons were privately owned in 1994."
Let's see: 1.5 million out of 310 million: That's less than a whopping one half of one percent Jack! Now, the assault weapon estimate is pretty old. Why don't I give you the benefit of the doubt and double the assault weapon percentage to 1%.
I'm sorry Jack, but Americans don't own "millions upon millions" of assault weapons. Assault weapons most definitely ARE unusual.
Irrelevant. The Miller test is: that they are in common use (they are); that they bear some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia (they do)
THAT is the only thing that counts, per precedent.
David KEnt
8:05 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
One half of one percent is common BHirsh? Not very I'm afraid.
10:23 am on Friday, December 21, 2012
David, I don't know what dimension you inhabit, but down here in the three we're familiar with, military-pattern semi-auto rifles are (and have been for quite awhile) de rigeur.
That's just a fact.
Besides handguns, what rifles have been flying of the shelves over the last decade? (rhetorical, but I'll answer it anyway) The very rifles you say are not in common use. I guess since they're buying them but not using them, they got them as investments, right? [eyecross]
Please. You're in denial.


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The World Trade Organization (WTO) was established in 1995 as a result of the Uruguay Round of Trade negotiations, which were held from 1986 to 1994. The negotiations were aimed at adopting rules to govern international trade by member countries. The efforts to regulate international trade started immediately after the 2nd World War, and in 1948 the General Agreement on Tariff and Trade (GATT) was adopted. Later on the Uruguay Round of Trade Negotiations revised and updated the Agreement. The negotiations led to three Agreements; GATT 1994, the General Agreement to Trade and Services (GATS) and The Agreement on Trade Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS). WTO was established to oversee the implementation of these Agreements and it acts as a forum for negotiations among Members.
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Move over Charlize Theron and Halle Berry, there is a much hotter woman in town. Esquire has chosen Kate Beckinsale as their cover star for their sexiest woman alive edition of their magazine. Read more about Beckinsale below.
Being named the Sexiest Woman Alive has got to be quite the honor, but for Kate Beckinsale she wasn't quite sure what to think as Esquire Magazine chose her for the sexy title.
Kate tells the November issue of the magazine, "This whole notion of being named 'Sexiest Woman Alive' is going to earn me quite a beating. You can't have that title with four brothers. I'll get wedgies. Headlocks. Noogies." Not only is she sexy, but she proves to be humorous as well!
But don't get her wrong, Beckinsale is thrilled to have been selected. The actress adds, "I like the idea of it, too. I do. I'm feeling that I must earn this. I need to go out and become much better at pole dancing or something."
Kate has starred in various films including Pearl Harbor alongside Ben Affleck (2001), Underworld (2003), Van Helsing (2004), and Click (2006). Do you agree with Esquire's choice or do you believe the title belongs to someone sexier?
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From now on it's now or never for Glasgow Celtic. Before Saturday's clash with St. Johnstone, the Hoops were 10 points out of first in the Scottish Premier League and fighting for their season and perhaps a spot in the Champions League next year.
Being knocked out of the Europa League in the first Qualifying Round and trailing their hated, cross-town rival, Rangers, Celtic needed a boost – perhaps a miracle.


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Comment posted Scottish Power Renewables announces another delay for proposed Tiree Array by Karl Hughes.
Hi all…well here I am back in sunny olde Iraq.
Just catching up on the circus and the star performers…seems Mr Salmond supported the Trump Golf course, but will not have a say in the 11 turbine test center ? why ? he is the local MSP….a clash of interest ?
Anyhow I move on….VisitScotland recently did a poll into the affects of tourism by windfarms…warented this was based on the current swath of turbines and not the proposed 'X' 1000′s we will see in future.
But the poll has left me confused … excuse the approximations WC…but I am doing this by memory….only approx 19% or so of holiday makers would be put off from visiting Scotland because of wind farms….Great, so worst case scenario we lose 19% of visitors.. But hang on a minute, are these the 19% or so that seek the wilderness areas ( yep like Tiree)' say for argument sake 80% of visitors to the mountains, the moors and the westcoast sea scape.
Lies, more lies and statistics or words to that affect !
Karl Hughes also commented
- Thanks Tim…I like concise information and this hits the nail on the head. Yes Tilley is generating cash for the island and projects on the island…
Nutshell: I take it what you mean is that you would prefer the contractual arrangement between the owners of Tilley and local consumers to be direct, rather than going through an electricity supply company.
Correct this is what I would have liked to see…
the bit about "but it would have to compete with the other suppliers in the market presumably". gets up my nose as this is the point at which the venture moves over into the realms of cash generation for middle men.
As you can probably gather…economics are not my strong point…hopefully the environment and people is..
Thanks again.
- Hi, these are my personal views….I am sorry if you get negative or indeed harsh retort regarding your views on Tilley…I get fair few myself because of my views on the Tiree Array. Always feel free to say high when I am home… we can chat.
I support community renewables for one reason…and I hope at sometime legislation and finance will allow this to happen in regards to Tilley. That the initial electricity generated is not sold into the grid and that the energy is consumed locally.
Surplus energy is a different matter and this could feasibly over a short distance (Coll?) be exported this is unfortunatelly not the case on Tiree "at the moment"
Eigg is a better example of an independent system.
I do not agree with multi-national companies developing huge windfarms for cash revenue…this is not a noble quest to reduce CO2 output…this is the generation of cash for shareholders…look at Iberdrolas profit margins…it is immoral and pushes people into fuel poverty..
I would rather Tilley had never arrived on Tiree for a use other than local generation….and I wish Tiree would make true use of a good thing for "all" the folk who live on our isle…maybe this will happen sometime ? what happened when the export cable was down for "X" amount of months ?
Tilley kept turning and generating "0″…insurance was paid…who covers that insurance ?…the electricity should have been used on the Island.
- Or on that basis 150 000 000 GBP to decommission Argyll aka Tiree array (@1Gw) ?
150000 x 1000 ? am I wrong ?
- WATCH THIS SPACE there is a storm coming.
- Square peg round hole springs to mind !
Recent comments by Karl Hughes
- Patron of Northern Lighthouse Board incredulous at Tiree Array proposal
Why do you have to be a Rich Nimby ?….I am quite happy been a nimby without any financial stickers applied. - Patron of Northern Lighthouse Board incredulous at Tiree Array proposal
I have heard that the main developer…can't remember if it is Vattna or the likes is looking at now selling its 75% share in the development proposal…
I don't have the info to hand…but a search around on the web might shine more light on mr Trumps smarmy grin… - Patron of Northern Lighthouse Board incredulous at Tiree Array proposal
Frankly, I don't care about Princess Anne's status in society…that she drives a 4 x4 , Sails, rides horses etc, etc, What I care about is that she has spoke up against inappropriate industrialisation of a beautiful place, the destruction of a least damaged most natural environment…yet another nail in the Argyll Array farce, hopefully this white elephant will soon be consigned to knackers yard.
Some things are worth fighting for…and I am sincerely thankfull that HRH has vented her disaproval for the Argyll aka Tiree Array.I note with equal glee that The Islay array has also now been put on hold…and that Mr Trump is now also happily laughing his cashmere socks off at the slow collapse of the Aberdeen inshore wind farm proposal…all good news.
- Islay Array offshore wind farm put back to Q4 2014
One has to wonder just how much public time and taxpayers money has already been wasted on these white elephants ?
It is a sad state of affairs that only following continual pressure from NTA that MS and other quangos are willing to enter into any form of the often mentioned "transparent public consultations" process… - Troubling responses to the death of Margaret Thatcher
What was illegal was the violence…on both sides. policing techniques have changed, some might say for the worse…some might say for the better…I would say that given the amount of instant video now (mobiles/tablets even the plague of CCTV) that this helps combat or at least catch guilty parties…again on both sides. But ask yourself was this really a Thatcher era legacy or simply evolution of policing and rioting…demonstrating.It's common place to see police officers with Heckler & Kochs in our streets and airports, Central Station, etc…was this a Thatcher era legacy ? no…again its an evolution of policing for our safety (so we are told)
I hope whoever wishes to express their feelings tomorrow does it peacefully…
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By E
from Memphis, TN
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See all my reviews
Comments about Stage 2 Raspberry Spinach & Greek Yogurt - 6 pk:
My 10 month old's favorite!
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11-month-old loves it!
By Alicat8
from Chicago, IL
Comments about Stage 2 Green Beans Pear & Greek Yogurt:
My baby loves all of the Plum yogurt blends and since he is going through a fussy period with not eating any of his meat blends, I use this as my backup so that he at least gets some protein in his diet.
baby no likey
By Jodi Lu
from New York, NY
About Me First Time Parent
Not sure why but she won't eat this one. I am eating them to use them up... I think it's fine but she's not having it at 6 months. Also I agree with other reviewer and wish it wasn't fat free yogurt. Instead we're going the Yo-baby route with yogurt.
9 month old loves it
delicious, easy, great for on the go!
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from burlingame, ca
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Delivered quickly! Toddlers LOVE it! Sometimes a snack, but often dessert :)
(2 of 2 customers found this review helpful)
Where is the healthy fat?
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from Santa Monica, CA
I love Plum products, but I see that they are using non-fat yogurt and that is not recommended. Young babies under 1 need the fat, yes even in yogurt to sustain healthy brain activity. I'm giving these blends a thumb down. Add this to full fat yogurt to make for a healthier choice.
baby loves this flavor
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from Greenville TX
Comments about Stage 2 Green Beans Pear & Greek Yogurt - 6 pk:
He has been on a veggie strike for 2 months. He loves to drink from the pouch, and I can sneak in some veggies thanks to this product. We always keep pouches in our diaper bag for snacks.


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New Reply |
How salty is a half salty solution? I mean, only one kind of ion |
Share Thread |
Dec9-12, 08:04 PM | #18 |
How salty is a half salty solution? I mean, only one kind of ionSodium ions are much smaller than chloride ions so I could imagine a container, separated into two by a semi permeable membrane, such that only the sodium ions (edit and possibly solvent ions) could pass through. Put pure water into one half and salt solution into the other. The chloride ions would remain in one half of the container, but the pure water half would soon contain some sodium ions that had passed through so you would have some solution containing only one species of solute ion. However as I already noted in post#12 there would also be other ions in the pure water half, due to some ionic dissociation of the solvent water. Can you guess what else would happen to maintain electrical neutrality? |
Dec9-12, 10:06 PM | #19 |
Dec10-12, 02:43 AM | #20 |
Electrons would stick to their ions, so they would not change the charge distribution.
If anything I would expect to see changes in the concentrations of other ions in the solution. Please remember that moving ions through the membrane as Studiot suggested means creating charge separation. Charge separation means potential difference - and any measurable change in concentrations would require pretty high voltages. |
Dec10-12, 05:17 AM | #21 |
Borek, ( or any practising chemist) you got there first and if you have better information please post it. Particularly about the practical availability of suitable molecular sieves/membranes.
Electrons are not ions, nor would they exist in a free state in solution. I don't know if you are aware but ionic solvents work by splitting into ions (dissociation). The solvent starts out electrically neutral so the resulting charges on tha anions (-ve) and cations (+ve) it splits into balance out, amintaining the electrical neutrality. Two such solvents for sodium chloride are ammonia and water, the salt being about three times as soluble in water as ammonia. When an (electrically neutral) salt dissolves in an ionic solvent it also splits up into ions. In the same way electrical neutrality is maintained by balancing out the charges of the anions and cations created from the solvent molecules. I have tried to show this in the attachment. If we have our container with a watertight door over the membrane initially and fill each side up as shown in Fig 1 we will have only solvent ions in the left hand side and solvent ions plus solute ions in the right. I have appended the approximate sizes of the ions so you can see that the sodium and chloride ions are much bigger than the sovent ions from the water. So the solvent ions can pass freely through the membrane, as can the sodium ions. However the membrane is such that the chloride ions (about twice the size of the sodium) are too big to pass the membrane. Thus in Fig2 when we open the door the sodium ions (but not the chloride ions) will spread (diffuse) into the left hand chamber. Because cations (Na+) are spreading left, they will displace some solvent cations in the left hand chamber to the right hand one. So you will end up with only sodium and solvent ions in the left hand chamber. You cannot avoid the solvent ions since the salt would not dissolve without them. It is this movement of solvent ions that maintains overall electrical neutrality. This is a very simplistic description of what happens that I'm sure will horrify the pure chemists but I hope it serves to promote understanding. Whilst we are on the subject can you say why the cations are in general smaller than anions? |
Dec10-12, 07:05 AM | #22 |
Dec10-12, 07:54 AM | #23 |
Dec10-12, 03:02 PM | #24 |
Science Advisor |
Dec11-12, 12:42 PM | #25 |
You guys are really helpful. I won't say that an only-one ion solution exists, and having you all clarified this, the diffusion chat may proceed.
It is sad to see the diffusion would create the sodium-and-hydronium-and-hydroxide to a very limited extent, but that's how it works. Thank you Studiot for your diagram. Thank you all. Even though my doubts on this subjects have been currently clarified, I, with all my magnanimity will allow further posts with relevance to the thread |
Dec11-12, 02:02 PM | #26 |
Diffusion moves them about. The hydroxyl (negative) and hydroxonium (english) or hydronium (american) (positive) are always present to some extent. The addition of other substances changes the amount present. I noted in my first post that the conditions under which you could isolate a single ionic species are not the sort of conditions where you would go taste sampling them. |
Dec11-12, 07:34 PM | #27 |
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chloride, saltiness, sodium, solution |
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Following up a very strong box office run back in the spring, Dr. Seuss' "The Lorax" should easily be the top new title hitting the home market this week as it makes its way onto DVD and Blu-ray. Also getting launched this week will be celebrated documentary "Marley," the story of famous reggae pioneer Bob Marley, and indie comedy "Blue Like Jazz." There's also an impressive list of older titles getting new Blu-ray releases, including Stanley Kubrick's "Full Metal Jacket," popular western "Rio Grande" and Mel Brooks' "Spaceballs."
Getting launched in early March can be a precarious position for a new movie, but "The Lorax" had no problem finding its intended family audience. "The Lorax" ended up crossing $200 million in the U.S. and racked up $331 million worldwide, which are strong totals for a $70 million production released in the spring. Though critics were split on the latest interpretation of the famous Dr. Seuss book, it landed in the box office top ten for seven straight weekends, suggesting that it has a wide audience that will check it out on DVD and Blu-ray as well.
Starring the voices of Zac Efron, Danny DeVito and Taylor Swift, "The Lorax" tells the story of a young boy who starts to question his artificial surroundings, leading him on a journey to find a more natural way to live. Even with some mild critical applause, however, "The Lorax" was also ripped by many as a subversion of Seuss' intended message, which centered on rejecting materialism and the unnatural world. "The Lorax" is still one of the biggest family hits of the year, though, and it should do well with family audiences at home through the rest of the month and into September.
While family audiences check out "The Lorax," documentary lovers might turn to "Marley," which gives an in-depth look at iconic Jamaican musician Bob Marley. From director Kevin MacDonald ("Touching the Void," "The Last King of Scotland"), "Marley" carries almost universal critical praise and a rare 95% freshness rating from Rotten Tomatoes. Unlike many documentaries, "Marley" even secured a theatrical release, though at just 42 theaters in the U.S. its box office numbers were modest.
Also having difficulty finding mainstream appeal in theaters was "Blue Like Jazz," a comedy based on the best-selling book from Donald Miller. "Blue Like Jazz" chronicles the life of a man struggling with his Christian values in a world too complex for the religious simplicity he was brought up with. Though the book was widely acclaimed, the movie version was met harshly by critics and reached only 136 theaters at its widest point, leading to a box office intake just shy of $600,000. Even after a minimal box office run, "Blue Like Jazz" should have a better chance of finding its niche audience on DVD and Blu-ray.
Film buffs not interested in the new releases also have plenty of other options this week. Celebrating 25 years since its release, "Full Metal Jacket" is getting launched in a special edition set loaded with behind-the-scenes extras. Though many critics consider "Full Metal Jacket" one of Stanley Kubrick's minor works, it still consistently ranks as one of the greatest war movies of the modern era and is noted for a memorable performance from real life drill instructor R. Lee Ermey.
Also celebrating 25 years since hitting theaters is Mel Brooks' "Spaceballs," a much-loved spoof of the popular "Star Wars" franchise. After making comedy smash hits like "Blazing Saddles" and "Young Frankenstein," "Spaceballs" was Brooks' biggest hit of the 1980s and enjoys somewhat of a cult status 25 years after its release.
Aiming at a more serious movie audience will be "Rio Grande," the popular western starring John Wayne and Maureen O'Hara. Released in 1950 when Wayne was an international superstar, "Rio Grande" was also directed by legendary filmmaker John Ford, widely considered the greatest director of westerns in movie history. Though not as popular as Ford/Wayne combinations like "The Searchers" and "Stagecoach," "Rio Grande" should still have plenty of appeal for film buffs and John Wayne fans.
Next Tuesday, August 14th, the sixth season of Showtime's hit series "Dexter" will be among the top DVD/Blu-ray releases in a slow week, followed by special edition sets of "Jaws," "The Royal Tenenbaums" and "The Raid: Redemption." In a rare Saturday release, smash hit "The Hunger Games" will also get launched on August 18th as it looks to carry its success at the box office into the home market.
by RTT Staff Writer
For comments and feedback: firstname.lastname@example.com
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Using instance level access control
You can use instance level access control to control what data the BlackBerry® Pushcast™ Software can process. When BlackBerry Pushcast Software users access a certain function in the BlackBerry Pushcast Software through their role assignment (for example, Run Report A), instance level access control determines what data the function can process.
Instance level access control only permits you to assign permissions to data that are less than or equal to what they are currently assigned. For example, your organization has three user groups defined as Group 1, Group 2, and Group 3. You assign the Administrator role to User A so that User A can manage Group 1 and Group 2. User A cannot assign the management of Group 3 to User B because User A has permission to manage Group 1 and Group 2 only.


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A Pleasant Shade resident is finding out just how serious the penalties are for not obeying hunting laws in Macon County.
Theodore Allen Kemp, 34, was arrested on April 3rd by the Macon County Sheriff Department and the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency—for hunting deer in December.
TWRA Game Warden James Dooley did not catch Kemp in the act, but he was able to undertake an investigation through other means, leading to the arrest. "I gathered information from statements of eyewitnesses and DNA evidence that I collected," said Dooley. "[I] developed probable cause and got warrants."
Hunting season runs from the end of September to the beginning of January, and there are different weapons that can be used in that time. Also, hunting can only take place between a half hour before sunup and a half hour after sunset. This is why Kemp's was charged with hunting out of season: he's being accused of hunting in the right time of year, but the wrong time of day. "When I alleged that he shot the deer, based upon information that I've gathered, it was after that legal hour," said Dooley.
Dooley says that the majority of his cases come out of eyewitness accounts—citizens who are willing to report illegal hunting activity.
"If I had to rely on what I saw to bring charges—I mean I'm just one person, and 300 square miles of private property that violations occured on," said Dooley. "Without the public being involved, it'd be really hard to catch them. I really have to work in conjunction with private citizens giving me information, and follow leads. I've always been very appreciative of the support here in Macon County."
According to the charges, the defendant shot a doe from a motor vehicle with the aid of an artificial light and during a closed season. The doe was subsequently loaded into a motor vehicle, and not checked in by the end of the calendar day at a TWRA check station or internet site.
At the time of his arrest, Mr. Kemp was already in custody in Trousdale County on other charges. Kemp was placed on hold and transported to Macon County General Sessions court. He was charged with spotlighting a deer, hunting big game during closed season, wildlife: illegal take/possession, and hunting from a motorized vehicle. Kemp pled not guilty in General Sessions, and the case was postponed till July.
So what kind of penalties are incurred, if an individual is convicted of these charges? "These penalties are Class B Misdemeanors," explained Dooley, "and the range of monetary fine can be from 0 to $500 plus court costs. Last I heard, court cost in General Sessions is $249.50 per charge. Plus there's always the possibility of losing privileges and losing equipment."


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I am writing to each of you this morning with a very heavy heart. Most of you are aware of the devastation and loss of life in Oklahoma City and Moore Oklahoma that took place yesterday due to severe weather and a tornado. (more…)
The new K-8 School will be located on Highway 27 in Rock Spring, Georgia. It will be approximately a 115,000 sq. ft. building on 94 plus acres. The school will be a two story masonry building. The school is a project based.. (more...)


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FAA and Kingdom of the Netherlands Sign Agreement
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FAA and Kingdom of the Netherlands Sign Agreement http://t.co/kzF0z9myil
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Police probe burned, bound body of woman discovered in downtown Philly
PHILADELPHIA (AP) — The search for clues continued Tuesday in the murder of a young doctor whose body was found bound and burned inside her home in a bustling downtown neighborhood, but investigators said they have not uncovered any substantial leads.
Firefighters responding to the home Monday afternoon found the body of Melissa Ketunuti, 35, on fire in the basement, with her ankles and wrists bound behind her and rope around her neck, Capt. James Clark of the Homicide Unit said. There was no sign of forced entry, he said.
"We don't know if she walked in on individuals inside of her property, we don't know if individuals forced her inside her property," or whether or not she knew her killer, Clark said.
Ketunuti was a second-year infectious diseases fellow and researcher at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. She had been at the hospital for five years, having first served as a pediatric resident.
"Melissa was a warm, caring, earnest, bright young woman with her whole future ahead of her," said Dr. Paul Offit, chief of the Division of Infectious Diseases. "But more than that, she was admired, respected and loved by those with whom she worked here at CHOP."
Jeff Moran, a spokesman for the city medical examiner's office, said an autopsy was being conducted Tuesday. The official cause of death has not been determined but Clark said Ketunuti appeared to have died from strangulation.
Her body, so badly burned that she was unrecognizable, was discovered by her dog walker.
A preliminary investigation did not turn up anything missing from the home and it did not appear the victim was sexually assaulted, Clark said. He said Ketunuti's boyfriend, who was not identified by Clark, is not considered a suspect.
Ketunuti made several stops around town in the hours before her death and investigators are looking for surveillance video that may show her killer following her. Nothing has turned up so far but detectives are continuing to canvass local business and neighbors, and there is a $20,000 reward for information leading to the capture and conviction of anyone involved in the slaying, Clark said.
"She dedicated her whole life to being a doctor and helping children with cancer," Clark said. "It's very, very unfortunate that she died this way." Continued...
Ketunuti kept a blog from March 2005 to October 2008 and wrote of her travels and studies in the U.S. and abroad.
After earning a doctorate in medicine from Stanford University, she went to Botswana in 2005 on an AIDS research fellowship and then completed a surgical internship at Georgetown University Hospital before moving to Philadelphia in May 2008 to begin a pediatrics residency.
"This is hopefully the last move for at least 3 years," she wrote, "given that's how long it should take to finish a pediatrics residency."
She called the hospital's pediatrics program "incredibly supportive."
"People are rooting for my success and education, which is a very different vibe than at Georgetown," she wrote. "As sexy as it was to be a life-saving surgeon, I feel much better suited for pediatrics."
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I live in the Metroplex, but frequently find a need to check into area hotels for business purposes. This was my first time visiting the Comfort Suites in Roanoke. Based on the overall amenities, price and friendliness of the hotel staff, this is now my hotel of choice. Karl, Katina and Laura at the front desk have been friendly, helpful... More
- Also Known As:
- Comfort Hotel
- Comfort Hotel Roanoke
- Comfort Suites Roanoke
- Roanoke Comfort Suites
- Official Description (provided by the hotel):
- The Comfort Suites - Roanoke, TX is an all suite brand property with both king and double bed rooms. Our double bed rooms all have queen size beds in them, making for a very comfortable group or family visit to the city. Corporate travelers appreciate the oversize guest suite style room to conveniently have a place to work and a separate location to pull away and just relax. Complimentary breakfast is provided daily and free hi-speed internet is always available. We share excellent relationship with our local restaurants, so do make sure to stop by our front desk and see what special savings we have available for you when dining in the local area. We are minutes away from I-35 and within 30 Mins of DFW Airport. Excellent location for special retreats or business training events. ... more less
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