ADHD, a Lifelong Struggle (2018) - <AUTHOR> https://gekk.info/articles/adhd.html <comment><USER6> I'm 31 and have ADHD (diagnosed in my teens) and I'm pretty sure NOBODY with ADHD is going to have the wherewithal to read this entire article! Unless it happens to magically coincide with their hyper-focus topic of the moment!

In all seriousness, I skimmed parts of the article and kept scrolling and it just kept going and going and going... like the Energizer bunny. I guess the author found a doctor to prescribe stimulants; they do make it easy to write long rants.

I can identify with _some_ of his analogies, not all. The forgetfulness, standing at desk with power supply / getting "stuck", lots of that sounds familiar. Some of the stuff he talks about is behavioral though and if it can be called lazy, it probably is at least partially lazy. I could never file TPS reports everyday, but I can do it occasionally. My brain's capable of it. I just don't like doing boring things. And yeah, I probably wouldn't last if I had to do boring things everyday for a job. But the article makes it sound like he's actually not capable of doing a boring thing.

The more interesting parts of ADHD are the stuff that is lesser-known and often overlooked, like mood swings and anger/irritability issues. Ironically stimulants pretty much cured lifelong mood issues for me. I used to blow up on people all the time; now I'm easygoing.

<comment><USER7> > Unless it happens to magically coincide with their hyper-focus topic of the > moment!

It's funny. People with ADHD suffer from attention deficit but at the same time they display hyperattention when they encounter a subject they like. I've experienced it as well: once I start programming I have no problem doing it for 12 hours straight. I've found this trait in many ADHD patients. There's usually something that really turns them on and I always try to find it.

I think of it as an signal/noise ratio problem. Very high signal is needed to grab their attention and there is very low tolerance for noise.

<comment> caleb-allen My favorite explanation is that of a hunter.

Those with ADHD spend 90% of their time imagining, thinking, doing everything and nothing. And to any observer they look stupid, or undisciplined, or lazy.

Like the hunt, when somebody with ADHD encounters an situation with very high (perceived) consequences, they will lock into intense hyperfocus, completely singular in their goal.

So the modes of operation are 1) philosophize and daydream or 2) hunt

Is this real? I have no idea, probably not, but it helps me reason about myself better than feeling like a permanent victim

<comment><USER8> So strange that I have said almost exactly these words. The characteristics that we depended on for survival as hunters now make life difficult in the middle class.

My theory extends to my desire for action and my risk taking behavior as a younger person.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I was somewhat recently diagnosed with ADD and the diagnosis has truly changed my life. I, for the first time, in roughly 12 years of writing software professionally, am able finish a project enough to open source it-- and I am days away from being able to do so. It feels insanely good. Like something I've only dreamed of as silly as that is, and I don't even care if folks use it (it's not that good), but it's the fact I have even been able to do so...

For years when I would sit down to work I would go into an endless loop consisting of roughly three-four websites, almost back to back, where it was driven by muscle memory anytime something distracted me. I would almost like "wake up" finding myself in this endless loop.

On good days, I would look like an insanely talented and driven engineer, on bad days, I would look like the laziest piece of shit folks could know. It wasn't by choice, it wasn't because I was trying to "cowboy" or "rockstar" a single fucking thing, it's because that's how my attention span worked (or didn't rather).

"Smart and lazy" is almost an insult to me now, because its a moniker put on folks who are probably having trouble with something and "lazy" is rarely positive (even when its supposed to be). It kept me from believing I might have ADD for years despite tons of signs.

The downsides are of course that people don't believe you, or judge you for it (I switched pharmacies because they were treating my like shit when I would go to pickup my ADD meds)... but the upside, as the author said, is you have a life back you didn't know you were missing. You can choose to read a book, watch a movie, program, etc. you're not longer just forced into a vapid reflexivity of the world around you.

<comment><USER10> I sometimes wonder how much gaming, and stimulating websites like youtube, reddit play a roll in actually creating ADHD.

It's kind of a chicken or the egg situation, do people have ADHD and because they have ADHD they are more susceptible to gaming addiction? or do they become addicted to these sites/games which then creates ADHD type symptoms.

Not saying ADHD isn't an actual thing, but I've noticed a reoccurring theme where people who have ADHD also were addicted to gaming or the internet.

I discovered this guy who has a youtube/twitch channel who is a harvard psychologist who explained how gaming/dopamine releasing web products can have a negative impact on our reward system. How gaming and these addicting products can paralyze you and prevents you from changing behavior.

It's an interesting question, because as I browse comments on sites like reddit and it feels like everyone has ADHD, and these comments about ADHD have massive amounts of upvotes. Which is weird because ADHD isn't supposed to be common, it's supposed to be like ~5% of the population, yet it feels like most people have it on these sites

Here's the links to the guy:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWbh2-tW2e0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWbh2-tW2e0)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEsFPaOQKoA&t=2s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEsFPaOQKoA&t=2s)

<comment><USER11> ADHD (especially untreated) and substance abuse/addiction is pretty common

<comment><USER10> Yeah, I agree. But also it's curious that so many people feel like they have it. Makes me wonder if in addition to people that were born with ADHD, these sites like youtube/reddit and video games can create ADHD symptoms over time as your brain adjusts to constant dopamine.

Kind of like how constant sugar can spike insulin and with weight gain over time can creates insulin resistance/diabetes. It's like type 1 vs type 2. So in this analogy Type 1 people with ADHD would be people who are born with it and it's lifelong, and type 2 ADHD people acquire it after indulging in these dopamine producing addicting web products for years and your reward system/executive function is messed up, impacting daily life similar to people who are born with ADHD.

<comment><USER12> > But also it's curious that so many people feel like they have it.

My hypothesis: ADHD is defined as X out of Y listed symptoms, almost all of which people experience in some way at some points in their lives. The difference is between "I sometimes have problems with some of these things" vs. "I have significant problems with many of these to the point where it is a big and constant problem in my daily life and causes me great pain".

So people who sometimes have trouble focusing see that it's on the ADHD list and take up this soft position of "Maybe I have ADHD" or jokingly talk about probably having a little ADHD or something like that.

It's the same with OCD. How many people have you seen on Reddit confess to having OCD or OCD-lite or "probably OCD" etc.? A lot more than the official diagnosis statistics right.

I don't think it's because Reddit creates OCD symptoms though.

<comment> munk-a I mean, that's sort of normal with neurological disorders though - a few have really clear symptoms that are blindly obvious to anyone from the outside. We, as humans, both can't see into other minds and can't let others see into our minds. If you analogy for ADHD is building a wall of awful[1] then normal people do place bricks in front of their actions, it just doesn't spiral in the same way as people with ADHD tend to do regularly - most of the bipolar people never act "inhuman" they just spend a lot of time at extreme emotional levels that most of us, thankfully, only visit occasionally... OCD (specifically, as a disorder) isn't liking things neat, it is harming yourself trying to keep things in a certain state - being late to a meeting because when you locked the car the click of the keys didn't sound like they should.

 _And_ everything is a spectrum, everything - nobody is immune to indecision fog, getting sidetracked, feeling helpless in front of a decision that feels bigger than it rationally is, etc... but those moments usually happen rarely, for some people it is a constant fight that actively lowers their quality of life.

1\. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo08uS904Rg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo08uS904Rg)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> About getting treatment: it's extremely irritating that some people judge using Ritalin is somehow morally wrong. Yes, I get that "lifestyle changes" could help, but I don't want to change my lifestyle.

Imagine if there was a pill to reduce risk of cardiac arrest, with some increased risk of something relatively minor. Can you imagine the uproar if cardiologists denied prescribing the pill, instead forcing people to spend 30m a day running? Sure, it's "better" in some metrics to just run, but that's their choice to make. Doctors should be doctors, not moral guides.

Source: been there

<comment> munk-a There's another weird factor. Ritalin is an upper and it's stigmatized to take an upper - either your performance, judged by coworkers, will be equivalent or below theirs and the stimulant is seen as the only thing keeping you in your job (which can get super depressing internally) - or, if you're doing well in your position, it can breed internal and external doubt as to whether your performance would just be normal and is being boosted by the drug.

It's kinda hilarious that, when going off Ritalin, things don't slow down (or become "less upped by the upper") they _stop_ \- this article touches on it but ADHD can feel the most torturous when it impedes even your leisure - especially when coupled with depression. Ever spent a day off staring at a wall dreading the possibility that you might waste a day until you realize the sun has gone down? Yup, so much fun.

<comment><USER14> > Ever spent a day off staring at a wall dreading the possibility that you > might waste a day until you realize the sun has gone down? Yup, so much fun.

This is literally every Saturday for me. I'm thinking about keeping my Ritalin by my bed. I don't understand why it's so difficult and it makes me really frustrated - I just can't get out of bed. I try to wake up and my mind goes "naw". I sit up to get out of bed, sit there for 40 minutes, and still can't get myself to get out of bed. Stare at my Pillow, some reddit posts, another 45 minutes are gone.

Now it's 2pm, I've wasted half the day. My depression tells me it's because I'm a lazy piece of shizzle.

Source: Diagnosed with ADD/Aspergers/Depression/Anxiety... Horaay :(

<comment><USER15> Being diagnosed with all of those things -- doesn't it seem like a pharmaceutical spiral brought on by a sick process? Ever since my sister was misdiagnosed with a handful of labels and put on a handful of drugs which subsequently ruined her life for a very long time I've been interested in looking at alternatives to the pharma status quo. I read _Lost Connections_ by Johann Hari recently and it was remarkable. The chapter on how people with similar diagnoses radically improved by joining a gardening club (reconnecting with others) makes the book worth reading, but it goes into much much more. It's worth looking up.

<comment><USER16> None of these "alternatives" ever fixes bipolar,schizophrenia, borderline, adhd, etc.

When you have those stuff, you need to take meds AND join the gardening club.

You can't go manic at the gardening club.

<comment><USER15> Right. Those are very extreme diagnoses. Medication is often required. What this book speaks to is the problem with overprescription as applied to the average person, and offers many solutions.

<comment><USER17> Overprescription? It is so damned hard to get stimulant medications (patients don't even dare ask for fear of being labeled "drug seeking") that even people who need them badly have a hard time getting them.

So, no, it does not seem like a "a pharmaceutical spiral brought on by a sick process", whatever the blazes that means.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I was diagnosed in 2019 after a long series of conversations with a therapist following a work disaster that nearly cost me my job. Getting diagnosed was like finding the missing piece of the puzzle regarding my life. My schooling history suddenly made sense, the poor financial decisions, etc. everything became clear.

The biggest thing I realized is how tightening feedback loops is the key to my productivity, I gravitated towards python because it's interpreted nature meant I could get feedback on my code in 20 seconds max as opposed to 3-5 minutes waiting for my code to build.

Adderall is a help but is not a cure all, it took me months to learn how to use it right, at first Adderall just fueled my ADHD and made everything worse. It's a constant struggle and maladaptive perfectionism is still the one thing I struggle with the most. I can't count the times of I've completed reverted my git sandbox to start from scratch after reaching a certain frustration level with code.

<comment><USER19> How do you use it right? I was on stimulants as a kid and they worked but made me feel emotionally empty and suppressed my appetite and energy. I'm 28 now and I've started taking it again to help with work. The appetite suppression is gone but the emotional apathy remains. If you have suggestions or experiments to make the best use of these meds I'd love to hear them. I started with the lowest possible dose.

Also, your comment on python ... very very true

<comment><USER20> Stimulants are bad news bro. I was diagnosed as a kid, and my sophomore year of college as well. I also didnt get enough sleep (or low quality sleep), had a terrible diet, etc. You can avoid the grips of amphetamines with regular exercise, mindfulness meditation, keto diet, yoga, etc. It's a bit harder to maintain, but you won't have to take amphetamines.

<comment><USER21> No, not everybody can. If you can manage it using those topics, great. You're not as far into the "ADHD affect my life" spectrum as other are. Awesome for you.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> For anyone diagnosed with ADHD, taking stimulants is associated with 8+x increase of being diagnosed with a basal ganglia and cerebellum disease later in life.

 _I believe this is NOT causative, but is instead a correlation between other diseases associated with Dopamine production and ADHD. I take and have continued to take stimulants for ADHD._

[https://www.nature.com/articles/s41386-018-0207-5](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41386-018-0207-5)

In my family's case, we likely have something called Dopa Responsive Dystonia (DRD), and what the author is describing sounds to me like what I experienced prior to being diagnosed with ADHD, and later with DRD.

 _Having said that, I 'm not a doctor, so please go see an experienced movement disorder specialist if you are reading this and have any concerns._

DRD is very hard to diagnose, but easy to treat. Because the stimulants (Adderall and Ritalin) made the DRD symptoms worse, my mother happened to get early onset Parkinson's, and my grandmother also responded to carbodopa/levodopa (carbo/levo), it was fairly obvious in retrospect, but if we didn't have a family member with early onset Parkinson's I doubt it would have been picked up.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine- responsive_dystonia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine- responsive_dystonia)

My sense is that anyone with ADHD who uses stimulants should see an experienced movement disorder neurologist or few about basal ganglia and cerebellum diseases and try out medications based on their assessment. From personal experience, it became extremely clear I had DRD after taking carbo/levo, but there's no way I would have really known without trying it. It also helps with some of the stimulant side effects, which I still continue to take because they are very effective.

My family has seen maybe six neurologists total, and only one really knew about DRD. The Dystonia Foundation has a decent doctor locator.

[https://dystonia-foundation.org/living-dystonia/find-a- docto...](https://dystonia-foundation.org/living-dystonia/find-a-doctor/)

<comment><USER23> Segawa's is completely irrelevant in this case and not supported by any symptoms the author reports in the original article. I have diagnosed Segawa's. It is quite irresponsible to wave people off of successful treatments of ADHD, as you're doing here, because of your family's (unfortunate) history with a genetic disease. I apologize that we know little about Segawa's and you've had a journey to understand it, but there is approximately zero overlap between common ADHD symptoms and the presentation of Segawa's, which is primarily motor-related.

Please, don't read comments like these and distance yourself from treatment. There is always more to a study.

Source: Board-certified neurologist.

<comment><USER22> I think you're misinterpreting my post based on some of the other responses. I will update it to unambiguously state that people taking stimulants for ADHD should continue to take them, just like I have continued to.

<comment><USER23> I'm not misinterpreting your post. You diagnosed the author with Segawa's based on your experiences by pointing out you wouldn't be surprised if he "had something similar". He does not, with certainty. You're also warning folks that the only consistently successful treatments we have for this (much, much more common) hyperactivity disorder are associated with unlikely neurological outcomes. Sure, an 8x increase _sounds_ high, until you realize that it's multiplying a mere fraction, context you do not include.

I'm sorry to appeal to authority here, but comments like these do actually harm people by shying them away from treatment (just look at your replies), and please don't write them. Again, I'm sorry you're dealing with Segawa's, but even your edits in response to my comment are making your statement more harmful because they're based in pure speculation.

<comment><USER24> Hate to break it to you, but the OP's edited comment is far less harmful than yours.

I've been suffering from a myriad of symptoms that happen to match up with Segawa's... a disease I learned about less than ten minutes ago.

> please don't write them

Please don't make statements requesting that other's don't share their experiences with misdiagnosis and rare conditions. It's rude and furthers the stigma that some conditions are too rare for their sufferers to discuss.

<comment><USER23> > Hate to break it to you, but the OP's edited comment is far less harmful > than yours.

It has been significantly, damned near whole cloth, edited in several ways since I said something, so I'd ask a little consideration that I'm coming from a good place. I'm not asking for anyone to avoid discussing Segawa's; I'm specifically responding to the speculation, across multiple comments, that the common element of dopamine as a neurotransmitter makes them related diseases. Given that people attack doctors when they try to arrest harmful discussion like this, I'm taking great pains to _not_ be rude, so I apologize for coming across that way.

If you diagnosed yourself with Segawa's based on Wikipedia, please bear in mind that my single diagnosis across my entire career involved four months of differential diagnosis and observation, and led to a publication. It's simply that rare. There are several much more common possibilities, and I'd ask you to talk with your neurologist with an open mind rather than assuming the Internet has steered you correctly. That's also part of the reason I've responded as I have, exactly due to what you're saying.

<comment><USER24> Appreciate the comment and was unaware that it had been edited after your second comment.

I won't be diagnosing myself off of Wikipedia, next to no one in my family has the symptoms that I do so I doubt it's something like Segawa's.

I appreciate the apology and hope my reply didn't come off as too aggressive. Part of my tone comes from personal experience: doctors stating that I don't have a condition because it would be "statistically unlikely"... all without running a single test.

<comment><USER22> It was edited after their second comment, but they are exaggerating how much it was edited.

I added the first italicized sentence after their first comment, and after their second comment added the second italicized sentence and modified two other non-italicized sentences. I think... I may have just modified one non- italicized sentence after their second comment.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Thousands of words and no mention of diet. I was diagnosed ADHD in 5th grade, tried just about every medication out there, and never landed on a workable long-term solution until I modified my diet. Medication always had mixed results. Many allowed me to focus and better control impulses, but the emotional crash at the end of the day was too much. Others caused insomnia or palpitations. Cutting sugar and limiting carbs, however has been transformational. I won't say it's right for everyone, but everyone with ADHD should at least try cleaning up their diet. It's a no lose option.

<comment><USER26> I was diagnosed with ADHD around the 3rd grade (2 separate psychiatrists diagnosed me) and have never heard about diets as working above all others. Are there any studies or information about this route or is it perhaps changing your eating behavior allowed you to do those same things with other parts of your life?

<comment><USER12> I don't know about studies but here's an anecdote. I've experimented with many potential factors for my ADHD over many years, and the strongest and cleanest correlation I've found is: More carbs and sugar => More brain fog.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Meditation helped me to deal with ADHD immensely. My ability to focus and concentrate is now on par if not better than most of my peers, though it requires me to spend about an hour every day in the morning to meditate.

I find that it's very much worth the time investment, and would recommend anyone struggling with focus/anxiety to try it themselves.

<comment><USER28> How long did it take you to see results? I've battled (manageable) ADHD all my life and have been meditating for around a year. I've seen many positive impacts on my life, but the ADHD is still very much a thing I still battle.

<comment><USER27> Interestingly enough, it took until I stopped trying to think of meditation as something to game or try and get something out of, for it to finally start working.

My personal hypothesis is that the inherent expectation of wanting/needing to feel some kind of effect every time I tried meditating ended up being the very blockade that prevented me from doing so. I kept falling into a negative recursive thought loop of, "I haven't noticed anything yet. This isn't working. There's no point in trying to continue meditating" that cycled into a cascading growth of anxiety that prevented me from reaching a state of balance.

It took me many months to realize that I was trapping myself inside this loop, but once I became aware of it, I was able to almost immediately start seeing results. The biggest thing that helped me was coming to a realization that the thoughts in my head are, at the end of the day, just thoughts. They have no ability to harm or control me other than what I choose to allow them to. The thought loop I was putting myself into could only continue because I chose to let it.

When I meditate in the present day, you might think that I no longer deal with any of these issues. That's actually completely not the case. In fact, I constantly still get it, especially at the beginning of my sessions, but now instead of stressing out, I just choose to let it go. By actively choosing to accept and let things go, the loop breaks right from the beginning.

<comment><USER29> This reminds me of troubles I used to have falling asleep if anyone was making any noises nearby (I would get very annoyed at the fact that I was startled, which would make it even _harder_ to fall asleep, in a terrible feedback loop). I think I managed to improve eventually, using the 'Paradoxical intention' technique that Viktor Frankl talks about in Man's Search for Meaning.

<comment><USER30> What is the 'paradoxical intention'?

<comment><USER29> In my case it was to try to stay awake listening to all the sounds. Maybe combined with just getting up and doing something else if after a long time I still wasn't sleeping.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> I was told by my doctor that since I have a successful career as a software engineer I do not have ADHD. I'm still fighting to get a prescription. What he doesn't understand how my coping mechanisms are probably more unhealthy then the drug. I have allocate recreation time to work, use a lot of caffeine, and sleep deprivation to overcome my ADHD. Sleep deprivation is probably the strongest tool to combat ADHD but as I get older it takes a greater toll on my body.

<comment><USER32> Other than your experience with your doctor, what you described is near perfect recreation of my experience prior to getting medication. Afterwards those coping mechanisms nigh complete disappeared almost overnight.

Keep pushing to at least get a trial run with the medication and seeing if it helps you. Also if your doctor is seriously ignoring your concerns, consider looking for a better doctor. People often place way too much confidence in their doctors and stick with crappy doctors who don't make efforts to resolve their patients concerns.

Best of luck finding something that helps you get away from those coping mechanisms.

Note: This post is a little rambly since I am typing this up while doing something else but I felt the need to comment.

<comment><USER31> Thanks for the push. I've been working with ADHD my entire life. I never considered medication before until my son started on it and I watched an absolute transformation in the way he works at school. His 4th grade teacher literally cried it was so positive.

</comment></comment></comment><comment> d--b This is interesting, because I definitely have been a non-believer. This article makes it real.

It does seem to me that ADHD is over-diagnosed for kids, especially since the condition as described in the article really looks like what a small child seem to experience (the inability to focus, the constant distraction, etc.). And because it is much less rare to see someone in their 20s saying they have ADHD than to see some parent saying their kid has it. It is convenient for a parent to think that their kid has ADHD to explain why the kid is "late".

Here the problem really is about "lateness". Children grow up at different paces, and if a 6-year-old boy behaves like an "average" 4-year-old, people will think he has ADHD, while his brain might just need more time to develop.

There are kids who finish high school before hitting 10. Do we diagnose them with anything? Like Attention Surplus Disorder? No, because it doesn't seem to induce any trouble.

The ADHD as described in the article sounds like a nightmare to be honest, and I really wish scientists find some way to help these people.

<comment><USER33> The thing with ADHD is that some type of kids are overdiagnosed, while other types are underdiagnosed. Basically if your kid suffers from:

\- Poor academic performance

\- Hyperactivity

\- Poor social skills (gets in trouble, fighting, etc.)

Then they're most likely gonna get recommended to ADHD evaluation. But as you might guess, a lot of kids suffer from those things without necessarily having ADHD.

Some kids, like myself, mellowed out, and lost pretty much all the traits other than those of ADD. But I did just well enough in school - <USER2> putting zero effort into it - that I flew under the radar.

Teachers figured I was just too busy fooling around / lazy / uninterested in some topics, while my parents argued that I was too hung up in sports / gaming / playing instruments.

And unfortunately, by the time you're a teenager, you only have one idea of what ADHD looks like: It's the troubled kids in class that got diagnosed early on, and can't cope in school; The "academic losers", as they are unfortunately branded.

In fact, that's the reason I didn't get diagnosed until my late 20's. My ex-gf hinted to me that I scored very high on ADHD / ADD checklist, but no way I thought, the only people I know with ADHD are those that never graduated from HS, and now are either criminals or minimum-wage workers.

Well, got myself evaluated, and sure enough, ADD. It was a thorough process, and took a LONG time.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> ADHD is not a disease. It's a collection of symptoms that have been arbitrarily grouped together. My son's psychiatrist who was diagnosing my son for ADHD said that it's psychiatry's dirty little secret.

Back in the 60s or 70s ( I can't remember what he said) people were starting to notice that kids were having behavioral problems, trouble focusing etc.

So what they did was collect a group of symptoms, and then arbitrarily said "if the child has 6 out of 11 of these symptoms then they have ADHD."

The reason why they chose 6 was because if they chose 5 then too little number of children would get diagnosed, and if they chose 7, then too many children would get diagnosed. Having 6 would mean that 7-10% of kids would get diagnosed which "looked right" so they chose 7.

It's not a real disease like other diseases, it's a collection of symptoms. Which is why kids get misdiagnosed all the time. Anxiety can produce ADHD-like symptoms. Other things like giftedness and boredom can also fry diagnosed as ADHD.

There really are children with focus issues where medication like adderall will absolutely help. It will make kids with anxiety worse though so a misdiagnosis will ruin lives. But the origins of where ADHD came from explains why there is so many issues with ADHD disgnoses.

<comment><USER35> Now could you explain away major depression using the same logic?

<comment><USER36> You can yes - in fact, I was listening to "D for Diagnosis" on BBC Radio 4 last night. The show title was "Ever Changing Labels" and a psychiatrist made the point (3'20" into the programme) that what we call "depression" in DSM-V has 9 symptoms and if you have 5 out of those 9 symptoms you are diagnosed as having "depression". But in reality 5 out of 9 gives a huge number - 15,000+ - variations. So there is no one form of "depression" and yet people are diagnosed with depression all the time.

<comment><USER37> > But I'm reality 5 out of 9 gives a huge number - 15,000+ - variations. So > there is no one form of "depression"

And? Do you know how many different kinds of cancer there are? We're talking about psychogical disorders that affect people's minds and personalities, of course their presentations are going to be very different. That doesn't make them not real or mean it's not useful to group them together. Diagnosis guides treatment, and most depression responds to the same treatments. You're fallaciously assuming that because there's not a single biological marker for named psychiatric conditions that they don't exist. That's not how any psychiatrist sees it.

<comment><USER36> I always think that when people start a comment so aggressively it's not really worth responding. However, that aside: I'm not "fallaciously" anything!

I responded to a question that was posed "could you explain away depression with a similar argument" with a relevant piece of information.

You seem to think I'm arguing depression doesn't exist. I am not. Forgive me if that was how it appeared, but please, for everyone's sake, try to keep things civil.

<comment><USER38> > Now could you explain away major depression using the same logic?

> You can yes

> You seem to think I'm arguing depression doesn't exist. I am not.

That is precisely what you were trying to do. And the response to your comment was in fact civil. Claiming that your argument is fallacious attacks your argument, not you, and is perfectly appropriate for civil discourse.

<comment><USER36> > That is precisely what you were trying to do

What a load of crap. You're projecting something here I'm afraid.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> I was diagnosed in my 30s in part by the T.O.V.A. test, which gave me surprising insights.

The hardest part of the test for me was to stop pushing the button when it told me to. It's hard to describe how difficult that was for me. By the end I distinctly recall the familiar sense I had in school of feeling dumb, inadequate, and frustrated.

In the T.O.V.A. results I was normal range for Inattention and Reaction Time. My Inconsistency was 75/100 but the shocker was my Impulsivity. My commission errors put me at 52/100, what the psychologist said was more or less a mentally retarded range.

On 10mg of Adderall, I retook T.O.V.A. and scored normal ranges across the board.

That helped me better understand why I was a class clown underachiever who barely graduated.

I cried the first time I studied a tech manual on Adderall. It was as if my brain were a radio that tuned into a clear channel for the first time. I wondered if that was how "normal" people are able to concentrate.

Soon, however, the stimulant honeymoon wore off as my tolerance increased and side effects ensued. Today I take nothing. I've noticed the symptoms being less disturbing since my mid-40s.

A weird part about being on Adderall is it slowed down my brain and reduced my quirky left-field personality to such a degree that I didn't feel like myself anymore, though I felt much more confident. One of my children also has the diagnosis and says the exact same thing. He only takes Adderall as needed for school challenges that require extra concentration. An early diagnosis for him helped him dodge the co-morbid problems that plagued me for years.

I don't tell friends or co-workers about the diagnosis. Even my spouse has expressed doubt about it.

<comment><USER40> Try other medication. It took me a few years, after being diagnosed in my 30's as well, to find something that helped without side effects.

<comment><USER41> Can second this, I started on Adderall but it has severe side effects for me. I read up on it and due to the Left handed amphetamines in the formula it causes more parasympathetic nervousness system stimulation as opposed to central nervousness system stimulation which is what the dextro-amphetamine target. You may want to try Dexedrin which is only dextro-amphetamine or Desoxyn which is methamphetamine. In my case after reading I asked the Doc if I could try Desoxyn and given Adderall was night and day for me, Desoxyn was like a superpower. Methamphetamine more easily crosses the blood brain barrier so there is less left in the body for the PNS. So you can take lower doses, get less physical effect, while getting more pronounced mental effect. Desoxyn should be the front line medicine for ADD/ADHD but it's old, cheap and not under patent.

<comment><USER39> Almost embarrassed to admit that I've never heard of Desoxyn but am very intrigued. It was never mentioned to me when I was getting meds, nor when my son was.

I live in "meth country" unfortunately so getting a prescription may be a challenge, but at least I have the paperwork.

<comment><USER41> Most people have not heard of it, my Doc had never heard of it. It is old (in used since the 1940's IIRC) and rarely used nowadays, due to the fact that there is no marketing budget around it. As for getting a script it should not be that hard the dose is so low that a meth addict would have to take a quarter of the bottle to achieve the same effect as smoking street meth. Desoxyn is a salt so it is not smoke-able and smoking is the way that Crystal Meth achieves such an intense high.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> For anyone with ADHD who finds this long article difficult to read, I'd suggest reading it with the BeeLine Reader browser extension (I'm the founder, and anyone who wants a free 1-month pass can email me via my profile). It makes walls of text and long articles in general easier to stick with, and is fairly popular in the ADHD community.

This article works best in Clean Mode, which also reformats the text into a column.

Sorry if this is too off-topic/self-promotion-y, but hopefully it helps some folks.

1: [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/beeline- reader/ifj...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/beeline- reader/ifjafammaookpiajfbedmacfldaiamgg?hl=en)

<comment><USER43> For those on macOS/Safari - cmd + shift + R will transform an article into reader mode: [https://i.imgur.com/4uLyDQA.png](https://i.imgur.com/4uLyDQA.png)

</comment></comment><comment><USER44> Be careful with the stimulants -- I say this not as a value judgment but because they can have cognitive side effects that impair your ability to understand you're having those side effects.

 _Even when they work well_ there will be some collateral damage with stimulants. I was a great employee on them, but I was a shitty, narcissistic friend. The focus many people get from stimulants is an inward focus, which makes it easy to get things done but hard to empathize with other people. As a result I didn't have many friends, and once I started wanting more out of life I realized the stimulants were holding me back from personal growth. The inward focus clouded my ability to understand why people didn't like me -- I couldn't make enough space for another person to even see why people didn't want to be around me.

I'm not saying that stimulants don't help (they totally do) but you should understand what you want out of your life and how that aligns what you get out of the drugs.

<comment><USER45> I have the opposite experience. I am formally diagnosed with ADHD, none of my friends would dispute the diagnosis. When I am on stimulants (Vyvanse and Dex) I have a ton more patience and emotional equilibrium. I pay attention to other people longer and more deeply... aka empathy. I can sustain an outward focus without distraction. When I am off meds I am distracted by my own free-running cognitive and emotional processes, and I have to spend effort looking inward to manage them.

I have had no temptation to abuse the stimulants. I don't really enjoy them, on the balance, but they make an incredible difference that meditation, high quality diet and physical activity can't even begin to approach. They really calm me down.

My wife prefers me medicated. I'm apparently nicer, more patient, more even- tempered and easier to get along with.

</comment></comment><comment><USER46> I relate a lot. I'm 28 and I have an ADHD diagnosis. There has been a lot of public debate on this topic in Sweden of late. I got my diagnosis at age 23 and had already finished a bachelor degree. My first psychologist said "I'm sure you dont have ADHD if you finished a bachelor" lol although at the time my life was a rollercoaster. Today im doing great and love the challenging nature of software development. However i eat medicine and realise that exercise and routines are extremely important to mitigate symptoms.

<comment><USER47> Meds didn't work for me, they just made me feel in overdrive, and I have a high sense of awareness so I always knew in the back of my mind the drugs were just making me high for a short amount of time. It never felt like real progress.

However, exercise, diet, and prayer cause my symptoms to almost vanish. In particular, keeping sugar content extremely low. Also being aware of my cues when I know my leg is going to start bouncing up and down and the impulse of doing anything _but_ my work is about to kick in (such as viewing this site for hours), and using behavioral modification techniques to mitigate this. Making good habits is especially important for ADHD people. It's not easy, but take comfort knowing it is doable. You can make progress today.

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> With all of these types of conversations and threads I am more curious to hear from the disciplined, focused people who seem to be the goal for what Adderiddlinvanse fixes.

I have wondered if I have ADD many times in the past. Mostly, because I was in school and being forced to do a task that I didn't enjoy, nor wanted to enjoy. When I have found things that I do genuinely enjoy, I can focus for hours and hours on end.

I am not opposed to any diagnosis or treatment, but I really have never met anyone who can truly focus on anything, at any moment for a super long amount of time. From my own experience and the conversations I have had with friends that take Adderall/etc. it seems like we have believed that there exists a significant portion of the population that has an uncanny ability to focus on tasks, both fun and boring. I certainly think there are a few people out there like this, but anecdataly, most people I know are more towards to the distractable/ADD/ADHD spectrum than the focused types.

I bring this up, because if our perception of how many people around us have this god-like ability to focus is wrong, I suspect many people will take medicine under a misconception.

Like I said, don't want to ignore the extreme cases, but genuinely would like to hear from a few people that read this and can confidently say they can do most/all tasks without breaking focus.

<comment><USER11> > When I have found things that I do genuinely enjoy, I can focus for hours > and hours on end.

One of the hallmarks of ADHD is not being able to get started and stay focused on things you do enjoy, not just things anyone would find unenjoyable.

<comment><USER48> Possibly. I would say the effects vary quite a bit. I have a close family member that has very rough ADHD, but can pull all nighters working on hobbies without medicine. As with anything, might just be an exceptional case.

<comment><USER11> You don't know if they have an internal struggle though. Just because they look functional to you doesn't mean it's easy for them.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> From years of amateur neurochemistry - As best as I can tell - ADD & ADHD are two sides of the same coin resulting from a dopaminergic deviation that serves the tribe but not the individual.

Most people think of dopamine as the "pleasure chemical," but in reality it is the "anticipation chemical." Dopamine says: "You got this. Almost there!" And it is up-regulated when an uncertain profit presents itself, implying that all you need is a little bit more focus and practice.

Too little dopamine and you get OCD and hoarding: the inability to decide. You can think of a hoarder's room full of stuff as decisions left unmade. When you can't decide, you open & close your car door 45 times until it sounds "just right".

And when you have too much dopamine, you do stuff with zero anxiety, but you don't stop to consider the best course of action because you pick the first, best path. Useful when running from a predator, but not when solving complex problems. Just look at people on cocaine to see how this pans out.

The best personal advice I have to handle the ups & downs of ADD/ADHD condition is to build supportive todo & reminder systems around the bipolar highs and lows. Exploit the manic highs and outsource as much rote work as you can. Find ways to help you remember and reward life-sustaining tasks during the lows.

I've been working on some software that helps me get the most out of life in this manner, which would also potentially help older, mentally-compromised patients. If this is something you are interested in, please do reach out.

<comment><USER49> Do you have sources for any of these claims about dopamine? No offense intended, and I agree that the common interpretation of dopamine as the "pleasure chemical" is wrong and oversimplifying, but much of what you're saying sounds a bit "just so" to me.

<comment><USER50> Also, while the relationship between neurochemistry and psychology is still in the dark-ages, seratonin is usually identified as the issue in anxiety related disorders such as OCD.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> I am surprised nobody has mentioned Gabor Mate's book Scattered Minds (Scattered in the US) which talks about his theory that AD(H)D is just a cope mechanism derived from childhood attachment issues or trauma with their primary caretakers.

After being diagnosed with ADD, and having rejected drugs, this is the first text that has allowed me to first get all the puzzle pieces in front of me and then let me build a proper picture of everything that has been happening to me for the last 20+ years.

I know I am getting late to the conversation and probably this comment will be buried, but I would _strongly_ recommend anybody suffering from this to take a look at this book. It has been eye opening and healing as no other text has.

<comment><USER52> Thank you for this recommendation. Just bought the book. Would love to hear Mate do a talk with Russell Barkley.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> I also have ADHD (Or what was called ADD before - i.e, not the hyperactive part), and got diagnosed as an adult. As a child, I was extremely hyperactive - by some mystery, my parents didn't get me examined. And since I mellowed down in my teens, them nor school bothered to do anything.

But, yes, it's awful. For me, the worst parts are:

\- Uncontrollable "hyperfocus" on things you really don't have control over. It would be awesome if you could control your interest, but it's usually the other way around. Something finds you, and you can't stop focusing on it. Everything around you becomes irrelevant, it's like a drug.

\- Poor time management. For some reason, things just fly by you. Because you have a hard time focusing on different things, they get neglected really fast, and you suddenly find yourself hours / days / weeks later, remembering that you should have done some thing. Taking out the trash, paying your bills, handing in homework, getting your car looked at, etc.

\- Having a hard time reading long pieces of text. During college I absolutely loathed classes with a lot of reading, as I'd read the same part 4 times over, zoning out each time.

\- Zero sympathy from other people. You easily get branded lazy. My teachers said year after year that I was bright, but lazy - so I figured there's nothing wrong with me, I'm just lazy.

\- Depression and anxiety etc. that comes and goes. I especially remember back in college when I studied Engineering, and most of my classmates would study 12 hours a day, deep into the books. It was impossible for me to do the same, so I pretty much lived from one all-nighter to another, feeling like a total fraud because I couldn't dedicate 1/10th of the time to school, as my buddies did. My anxiety was over the top.

<comment><USER53> This is all super relatable.

> Uncontrollable "hyperfocus" on things you really don't have control over.

This is the bane of my existence. I have moments reading about things (most recently, how to repair air conditioning systems in vehicles I don't even own!?) in which I'm aware of how insane it is but I just can't stop. I need to know more.

> Poor time management. I once went snorkelling for an hour... for almost 4 > hours. Everyone thought I was dead.

> Zero sympathy from other people. Yeah. All those people who thought I was > dead subsequently believed I went snorkelling for 4 hours on purpose - <USER3> > at all because I had no idea it had been that long. In my mind I thought "I > better get back, it might be closing on 1.5 hours by now!". The ocean was > too beautiful for time to exist though. I really had no idea. I was shamed > for being so selfish and self absorbed for ages... I suppose I still am, > actually. This happens with countless things. My family refuses to believe > ADHD causes you to do things like this; they think I'm looking for excuses > when I point to ADHD.

> Having a hard time reading long pieces of text. This is the one thing I'm > alright at. I love getting lost in text, even if it's not that interesting. > The problem is that I do it too often.

> Depression and anxiety Yeah. This is soul crushing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER54> "If I don't want to wash a fence, I can't think about how to wash the fence. I go into complete lockup. I ask the question, "how do I wash the fence?" and the answer will not come to me.

I can't get to "first I need a bucket and water." "

This is so true! I'm ADHD, diagnosed and tried medications for a while, they helped, but had other issues so I stopped. What really helped was the realization that there are tasks where I can't even begin. I then gradually trained myself to think about the first thing and just focus on that. Don't feel like getting up from bed? Thing about moving my hand, then make it move the covers off, then move my legs and so on. Soon the momentum develops and I find it easier to do whatever I didn't feel like doing. Now my default is to just think about the very first thing and take it from there. It took me a while but has worked wonders for me.

<comment><USER53> I find the problem with this feature of ADHD is that it often happens in social situations which is problematic. I can gradually ease myself over the hump of "what comes first?" in private and with some time, but if someone asks me something and the subject is completely irrelevant to where my attention is, I'll draw a blank for so long that it can appear rude. I'm not being rude though; the context switch is almost like hitting restart on my brain.

An example might be if my ex would ask me where we should eat dinner. Maybe I'm actually hungry at the moment, but I really don't know how to go about solving the problem of where to eat. My brain won't go there. I have an internal urgency to solve this because I know my ex will be annoyed if I don't have ideas, but my brain is completely blank. I fumble around with the same 2 or 3 bad ideas after 30 seconds or so, both struggling to rationalize them as choices and thinking of more places.

Soon my ex decides I don't have ideas because I'm either not hungry (which means I'm selfish because I should at least care to help her with ideas!), or I don't want to go out with her (if I wanted to I'd think of something - anything!).

I find similar mechanics in a lot of relationships, and it's never that I'm actually being selfish or even uninterested. My brain just goes blank.

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> Thanks for mentioning that not everybody responds well to Ritalin. I was medicated with it while in grade school, and it was not pleasant; the school nurse would check my mouth to make sure I took the pills each morning, because I would spit them out otherwise. To this day, I am not interested in taking medication for my mental health.

<comment> munk-a Ritalin in the 90's was pretty brutal for me too - when I was first put on it it was a big morning pill and I think two separate afternoon boosters - <USER4> meant that I was constantly cycling between overly sedate, level, and apathy - but I've found that switching over to a single XR pill has helped out, I think I've also benefited from being able to clump my active hours according to my own schedule so that I can be productive semi-reliably and sort of trail off in the evenings.

If you're able to get by without it then good on you - but I thought I'd mention that things have improved somewhat.

</comment></comment><comment><USER56> I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was 12 and put on stimulants until I was about 23. I had the classic symptoms of not being able to clean my room, not being able to stay on top of bills, couldn't use a calendar, bumped into things, changed topics constantly, etc.

One day, I did LSD and it permanently alleviated my major symptoms. I felt like my brain had a major reset, and I finally knew what it was like to be in the present moment. I stopped taking medications, and 9 years later, I'm doing fine.

I later learned from other psychedelics that traumas and not having emotional connection to my authoritarian parents contributed to my ADHD symptoms.

I can guarantee that psychedelic therapy will be huge for ADHD sufferers in the near future, especially with the potential effects like neuroplasticity and neurogenesis.

</comment><comment> moth-fuzz As someone with ADHD, I don't think articles like this one do any of us justice. The tone of this whole article is piteous and negative.

I truly wish more people would see ADHD as a neutral brain difference than a ~disease~. There are just as many positives to having ADHD as there are negatives. It's not like a broken bone which is a damage that will heal, it's a different type of brain from the get-go from which we see and live in the world differently.

The key is not trying to "cure" this difference, the key is using its strengths to your advantage while working on (or working around) the weaknesses.

The long term solution is, then, not eradicating ADHD's existence, but building a society in which individuals with ADHD can prosper in their unique ways.

<comment><USER57> "The long term solution is, then, not eradicating ADHD's existence, but building a society in which individuals with ADHD can prosper in their unique ways." \- Spot on the mark. Not that ADHD can be "eradicated" but having a society that makes it easier for people with ADHD to thrive is important.

A lot of our institutions (education, employment etc) are a good fit for the "neurotypical" among us, which makes coping with ADHD difficult, even though it does go hand-in-hand with a lot of positive traits (empathy, creativity, "hyperfocus" etc).

We can use the associated strengths to our advantage as much as we like, but for me, that means working staggered hours (my focus/drive follows a cycle that means I could be a 5am-er for a few days, then back to being a night owl when it comes to work output), and that just isn't possible with a day job, unless I put up with being half as productive. When I was consulting and working mainly from home, it was great as I could "surf the wave" of this cycle, so to speak, but with a day job, and the expectation that I can work regular hours alongside other people, it's no longer an option.

That example is specific to me, but I'm sure there are loads of other ADHD traits that make life difficult simply because they don't fit the mold of "regular people" \- my kids are a good example, especially my 11-year-old... he'll annihilate a book in a single sitting and he's an incredibly bright kid, but he's a straight-C student.

</comment></comment><comment><USER58> As someone who spent a good chunk of their childhood and young adulthood just thinking I was garbage and morally weak this article really spoke to me. Going on medication meant the difference between being an effective human, partner, and worker, and being a depressed ball of goo stuck in a retail job.

</comment><comment><USER59> I offer you my genuine personal point of view.

ADHD people are incredibly creative! They are those whose brain naturally refuses to conform to "what is not fun", in the words of the author. This feeling is right behind Artistry itself! Your mind is trying to say something very important.

I advise you to invest in finding what your flow is. For a moment think the way your brain works is a gift of the universe and things like Distraction, Hyperactivity and Never Ending Stream of Thoughts might in turn be confused with Graph Exploitation, Mind Stamina and Infinite Power of Association.

How can you take the most utility out of your "condition"? By using it as a tool for Creative Expression. We are all blessed to have so many options to do that. Fall in love with a project - something you care about so much you will likely be always motivated by it.

The System is totally broken. Many know that. Companies should see ADHD collaborators as a unique and rare kind of Problem Solvers and work hard to make sure their gift is well exploited. The full equation has got many parameters, but a good starting question is "how can we design an environment where my ADHD (or any other condition) can give their absolute best?".

Personally, I like to use my abilities thinking about The Future of Technology and expressing those thoughts through Software Development. If you vibe with that, message me. I would very much want to be your friend.

<comment><USER60> You probably mean well, so as a usual lurker, I'll make an account to offer my genuine point of view in return.

I'm an artist and a programmer, the kind of 'creative' you are talking about, and see myself mirrored almost exactly in the original post. There are _many_ things I care so much about I 'will likely always be motivated by them'. I am in love with all of these.

The problem is that same motivation likes to vanish for weeks, months, years at a time. I have no control over this. That's what ADHD does. That's why it's a disorder, not just misunderstood creativity. We ghost on our own dreams, inarticulately.

I already consider myself "blessed" to know what I like. I would just really like to be able to like it for more than one maniacal sprint at a time.

A solution to the problem of our clumsily entering and exiting a role (above the level of temp work, turking, etc) would be nice - in no small part because it seems like this would help people without ADHD too and, therefore, scale. I've been looking for a solution to this for most of my adult life. The only remotely consistent one I've found is 'long tail' type things - things one makes once and doesn't have to think about, like resources (books, writing, references), assets ('crafts', reusable design, etc).

That isn't enough to build a career off unless you get astronomically lucky - or come upon the necessary resources to delegate the less ADHD-friendly parts of this kind of business - promotion etc - to someone else.

<comment><USER59> I concur it is hard to keep continuity while battling waves of inconsistent motivation. While we hardly have the same experience with the issue, I would like to share a few additional models with you. They are not any close to a solution, but might be helpful thinking about:

I found Brain Hacking a helpful tool.

What incentives can you setup to use your own "instincts" in your favor?

"Long tail" projects are a very good call. If the required endeavor for success is big and challenging, you are likely to get drawn back to it out proud, "just to prove yourself". It might help assuming it is your responsibility to get it done. The waves will keep coming regardless, but I found that even in the dark moments, you can still advance, if just a little, and sometimes you will be surprised by finding out a time of complete aversion was exactly what you needed to step back up. I can see you are self-conscious of those moments so maybe an "OK, I am depressed. What is the least I can do while in this state of mind?" is a good exercise.

I got involved into a project that might take many years to finish and I became obsessed with it in a way the great majority of my thoughts, regardless of how messy, fall into its reign. Many might tell you to shoot for Balance instead. That sounds nice, but as an ADHD myself, I am not afraid of saying singleminded dedication to a cause is not as bad as people might tell you.

One way I found to cope with it is to apply Gamification in my routine. Every finished mission is one step less towards the vision. Another strategy I use is to go the opposite way of the norm by removing all source of information instead of feeding on them. I really mean no books, no articles, no podcasts, no HN, no YouTube, Twitter, Instagram or Facebook, etc; you name it, anything that would likely bring you anxiety. In this state of mind your mission will be canalizing your thoughts into something you find useful. Repeat.

To finish, for what it comes to career as an Engineer/Artist, I would say that following a passion, even if inconsistently, will likely be a better lesson, both technically and creatively, than any job you could find in the system. I once got two very good job offers by basically saying "I am too adventurous. I won't ever fit your archaic corporative structure. Are you sure you want me in?". That said, nothing really beats the thrill of being a maker. Have you ever lurked into Systems Design?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER61> I find myself almost in tears reading certain parts of the article. Growing up I was also the, "Smart, but lazy" kid, and my parents just told me I was a bad kid who needed more discipline. I always felt like my brain just worked differently and spent decades feeling fundamentally "broken" because I was just too "unmotivated" and didn't have enough "will-power". To this day I struggle with feeling inadequate because of the message I heard.

That being said, I'm fortunate in that I've worked with a therapist who saw the ADHD (along with PTSD) symptoms and put a name to them. They pointed out that I'd basically been self-medicating with caffeine since I was a young kid. Even just having the acknowledgment and having words put to it has made a huge difference for me. Now I know it's not some moral failing and laziness. My brain is just different and I have to figure out ways to make it work (currently those ways are medication, writing, therapy, and some incorporation of Buddhist teachings in my life).

</comment><comment><USER62> I have ADHD and OCD. I take medication. This post on ADHD hits hope with me on how people treat OCD.

"My OCD is kicking in, it needs to be aligned!"

OCD is not wanting things straight. That's human nature.

OCD can be crippling. It can take over your thoughts and your life. That's the compulsion. It takes you over. It's doesn't help with programming, it doesn't make your code neat.

<comment><USER63> I too have ADHD and OCD.

It's a terrible combination since stimulant medications tend to increase anxiety and therefore worsen OCD symptoms.

My OCD is largely under control now. It took a few years of CBT; figuring out how much sleep (5 ± 1 hours for me) I need per night; and nailing-down a daily routine featuring _bounded_ compulsive activity in order to, for instance, enable me to get out of the door in the morning.

</comment></comment><comment><USER64> I recommend "Driven to Distraction: Recognizing and Coping with Attention Deficit Disorder" by Edward Hallowell and John Ratey ([https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18712223-driven-to- distr...](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18712223-driven-to-distraction- revised)). I discovered this book thanks to HN and a post about dyslexia. The book shows quite a few stories of adults with AD(H)D and how do they cope with work and relationships. The stories are diverse (it is certainly not all ill- behaved boys), and give a point of reference.

I wished I had known that book before. I got diagnosed only the last year, being 33 years old. Before turning 30 I hadn't suspected having ADHD, as I had quite a few misconceptions both about the condition, and what is "typical" in humans.

</comment><comment><USER65> Any advice for parents of kids who seem to exhibit some of these traits? My oldest son is in 3rd grade and is probably not exactly neurotypical. He really excels at some things (reading) and really struggles with others (handwriting, behavior/following directions.) I've heard horror stories from folks who feel like they were diagnosed and treated too early as well as too late. For folks here with those experiences - anything you wish your parents would have considered that they didn't? Questions they should have asked?

Overall he seems pretty happy in life and has some friends and things he likes to do, so I'm not feeling like it's _really_ urgent to get him help, but also don't want it to escalate to the point where it's harder for him to get help later or starts self medicating as a teen.

<comment><USER40> I wasn't diagnosed until my 30's, and I wish I had been when I was young. So many things that were impossible for me as a kid are manageable now, and I missed out on a lot.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> > "You're an engineer, that's not a field that people with ADHD have any > success like you in."

I knew a _neurologist_ who had ADHD.

</comment><comment><USER66> I am also a person with ADHD and the author really nails it.

Everything: Smart, but lazy every since I was a kid. Having to have a list when I am shopping, the endless and heartbreaking failed projects I desperately want to do and achieve but have been unable to do so. The reminders not working. I have to be going somewhere or doing something. 90% of the time I am just staring off into space and telling stories to myself, it has been this way ever since I was a kid. I slept through pretty much every single one of my classes. We would do reading around the classroom and I would always read ahead.

It causes a lot of friction with my SO. I can't go shopping with her because I HATE standing around waiting for her to select fruit and shop how she likes. I struggle to motivate myself to do the dishes and other household chores.

I have tried to organize my days but in the end the time falls away like water through my fingers. I have things I want to do, the time to do them, but I just... can't. I have piles of goals, plans, schedules, all of it falls to the wayside in day to day life. I read books on mindfulness and try to meditate, with some success.

I have been to many many therapists to try and MKULTRA myself into being more productive. I tell them all the same thing: I'm not depressed, I just want to achieve more of what I want out of life. It doesn't help. I am still just treading water.

I've been on ADHD medication before, and it is truly a miracle. I am a like a different person. I do extremely well as a programmer when I am on medication. Unfortunately, it is difficult to get, and I have to visit a doctor's office once a month to keep my prescription filled... honestly typing all this out makes me think I should go back on it though.

It is like my mind is screaming. My thoughts rush through me like a river and the things I actually want to do get swept along with everything else.

I crave dopamine. I work myself into a frenzy thinking about conflicts at work and between friends. I used to smoke cigarettes like a chimney. I smoke weed, I (used to) cut myself, I drink heavily. I hyper focus on comic books and video games and animation and novels.

I feel so much shame for all of these things I have never accomplished. I am ashamed I am not the person I should be.

<comment><USER67> > _I struggle to motivate myself to do the dishes and other household chores._

One thing I have found is that truly mindless chores like dishes are great because I can let my mind wander and do whatever it wants. The chores that I struggle with are ones that require focus/attention/thinking. Stuff like organization, where I have to sit and think about where each thing goes, and arrange and rearrange, those are a nightmare.

> _Unfortunately, it is difficult to get, and I have to visit a doctor 's > office once a month to keep my prescription filled_

Not sure where you are but my psych used to make me come every month for a refill. I moved and before I found a new psych I had to make an appointment with a regular family doctor. She was more than willing to write my script and only asked me to come every three months. I think the key was that I had been on the same dose for years and was organized with all my medical history. But don't take it as a given that monthly appointments are required.

</comment></comment><comment><USER68> Got ADHD diagnosed little over a year ago, at age 30 after dropping college twice, failing tons of classes and having been unable to manage anything.

My parents absolutely loathe people with mental illnesses and it took me a decade after moving out to get things together enough to visit a doctor for my long lasting depression, which eventually lead me down the path to a diagnosis of ADHD. They required parental interviews which made the doctor rule out ADHD at first, but every single thing my mother reported was a lie, and after contacting estranged grandparents who met me a lot as a kid it was diagnosed.

I landed a job as a COBOL developer and spend all free time trying to learn more technologies, but I hate myself for not finishing a degree, which is the only one thing I've always wanted to do, and letting so many people down and never making any friends during my studies because I was always too far behind to dare work together with them.

So now I'm in debt from a loan I took years ago to not end up homeless, no degree and crappy work experience from jobs requiring no qualifications, working on legacy tech on a dying project without being able to afford relocating and nothing to show for if applying to more modern tech stack jobs.

Now I feel great, started reading and learning things, but I just resent myself from before I got on this medicine that makes me work.

</comment><comment><USER69> I wonder whether I have mild ADHD but I'm not sure whether I'm just young - and not willing to use the NHS to find out. (or ADHD-ish but not actually "ill", for want of a better term).

I can relate to the symptoms on the NHS website (for adults) but I'd rather not self-diagnose. One thing that doesn't seem to fit is that I can focus very hard (by my standards at least) (for short periods of time) on things but not things I actually need to focus on - I always have about 9 books open at the same time, physically or virtually, constantly skipping between them (sometimes literally, sometimes on "academic" timescales i.e. a day). This stops me from sleeping which is probably partly why I can be very neurotic. Who needs sleep when you could be reading a FEA textbook.

I have never done as expected on a formal exam - I can't seem to put the effort despite wanting to, but I think that is part arrogance and part personality in the sense that I can't take it seriously enough. Attention to detail and time management, usually.

I have now realised that I made it about ~100 internalized words into the article before zoning out but I have managed to write this without making any new tabs.

<comment><USER70> You're describing hyperfocus, which is a common manifestation of ADHD. ADHD is fundamentally the result of disordered executive functioning. That means someone with ADHD has difficulty controlling their attention. In some people, that means they bounce from thing to thing, in others that means they hyperfocus on certain things for too long losing track of other priorities like eating, sleeping, homework, etc. Failing to get enough sleep and exercise are particularly problematic since without those things executive function deteriorates further.

<comment><USER69> Thank you

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER71> Somehow a search for 'modafinil' doesn't turn anything up, in a thread full of ADHD-diagnosed software developers complaining about the side effects of their conventional stimulant medications.

So I'll be that guy: Consider giving it a shot. I took d-amphetamine sulfate by prescription for a few years, couldn't tolerate the side effects, and modafinil helps a lot.

<comment><USER72> Yeah this seems to really help some people. There are easier to get medications than the hardcore stimulants to treat ADHD. They might not work as well, but access (and perhaps potential side effects) is better.

</comment></comment><comment><USER73> Worth noting that ADHD is often misdiagnosed, in the sense that there is an underlying condition, and ADHD is just one of the symptoms.

Case in point: my now 14 years old kid was diagnosed with severe ADHD when he was 6. Medication improved his condition a lot. Last year we started to notice that he would have brief periods of absence, resulting in a battery of neuro tests. He has been diagnosed with generalized absence epilepsy and he is now on valproic acid. He is now much better - especially with mood stability - since started epilepsy meds.

Yet, I am afraid that epilepsy is again, just another symptom. Structural damage was discarded (brain mri was normal), but we are now running a battery of genetic testing to find out. First test - cgh array - came out negative and we are now waiting for a whole exome sequencing to see if we are able to identify an underlying genetic condition.

My take away: If you have severe ADHD, go to the neuro and ask at least for an EEG and a brain MRI to discard underlying conditions.

</comment><comment><USER74> Plug for Dani Donovan, who draws comics about ADHD that I've found to be some of the best ways to illustrate what it's like: [https://twitter.com/i/events/808796572716765185](https://twitter.com/i/events/808796572716765185)

</comment><comment><USER75> What I'm struck with reading this post, and the comments, is that all we know is how our own brain works. None of us can share the thoughts and experiences of someone else.

As far as I know, my brain is "normal" (whatever that means.) But I still think I have plenty of problems concentrating, forget what I'm doing in the instant, get hyperfocused on some topic and get very aggravated if I'm interrupted, etc. How do we know whether my problems concentrating are worse than someone else's? Maybe everyone's brain has the same innate issues but some people have just happened to develop coping strategies that work better for them?

It just seems really difficult to have a rational discussion about something where literally no one has a shared experience with anyone else.

</comment><comment><USER76> Wonderful article. I was diagnosed with ADHD but it was more of a "here are some pills, go away" deal. I've never had someone put into words the way I feel without my meds so... eloquently. It feels great to know that there is at least one person out there who understands. I am at a very low point in my life right now and this article has me sobbing with relief. Thank you to the author and everyone on HN sharing their experiences, I feel better right now than I have in a very long time.

Side note: I am also diagnosed with the other two ailments the author compares ADHD to, lol; diabetes and depression. Although I suspect that second one is just caused by years of untreated ADHD making me feel like a lazy asshole.

</comment><comment><USER77> I posted this comment under the "Why I procrastinate" article today ([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22127841](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22127841)) but I think it's important enough to the HN viewership that it should be shared here as well. Hope this helps someone:

I just discovered yesterday that I suffer from task anxiety related to ADD/ADHD, after a lifetime of struggling against falling into patterns of depression. It's felt as almost a pain in my gut between my chest and belly whenever I go to start working on something I have to do. I just worked through this series of exercises and it really helped me identify what's actually going on, with some solutions:

[https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/01/29/taskmaster- getting-t...](https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/01/29/taskmaster-getting- things-done/)

[https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/11/task-anxiety- awarene...](https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/11/task-anxiety-awareness/)

[https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/14/virtue-not-own- rewar...](https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/14/virtue-not-own-reward/)

[https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/16/doling-out-the- cooki...](https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/16/doling-out-the-cookies/)

[https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/24/when-the-game-is- rig...](https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/24/when-the-game-is-rigged/)

Some other keywords to look for are "impossible task" and "executive dysfunction", both maladies being seen predominantly in millennials. I just happened to get them 10 or 20 years ahead of time by starting computers when I was 12 as a Gen Xer.

</comment><comment><USER78> Yesterday i found a video where Dr. Amen describes 7 types of ADD. Maybe helpful for people who suspect they have it as well.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWnJ4wjVu9k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWnJ4wjVu9k)

<comment><USER79> "Psychiatrists, we are the only medical doctors that never look at the organ we treat."

Ouch.

</comment></comment><comment><USER80> My journey with ADHD has been a mix. I got diagnosed with 25 after someone here on HN pointed out that my motivation issues might not be normal and something worth checking out. Well surprise surprise, they were right and I have ADHD and always had it. Just noone really noticed but in reflection it makes sense now.

At first I was relieved to get meds. Then I started to learn more and more about what ADHD is actually doing to me and my life. I read through dozens of papers and probably know more about it now than my doc who just gives me whatever his book says he should prescribe.

I hate ADHD and I would pay a lot to get rid of it. I hate not being able to focus like a normal person (despite hyper focus bursts) without meds. I hate that my mood is impulsive and all over the place like an emotional hurricane. I am very sensitive to negative feedback (thanks RSD, but also thanks to guanfacine for now being somewhat able to treat this) and can't deal with conflict.

I can't push through with things, my focus and thoughts play ping pong. One moment I obsess with a new hobby and throw a lot of money at it, then a few weeks later I don't bother touching it again. I start a dozen software projects, finish it 80% then lose interest and do something else.

If I have no interest in something I can't do it at all. It's like getting a tooth pulled out. If something grabs m attention I have to drop everything and do it now and if I don't it will bounce back and forth in my head until I do it (like writing this comment).

I procrastinate everything until the last minute. If something doesn't have external consequences I just won't do it. If there is a deadline or it will impact something, I will push it until it's due, then panic and rush through it.

My brain feels like it's always on overdrive and works in extremes without middleground. Either I hate or I love, either I'm interested or not a single bit. Either I'm fully committed on something or I won't touch it at all

But thanks to ADHD I became a very good software engineer. I was able to quickly pick up new technologies and hyper focus through it in no time. I am very good in designing systems because of how fast my brain works. I can quickly sort through heaps of ways to do something and look at things from many different sides at once to find the optimal path (though sometimes overlook things due to gaps in working memory).

Still I hate it. It's also a completely mislabeled condition. If it was just attention I'd be so much happier.

</comment><comment><USER81> > stop letting yourself feel like shit for not being normal

The most important point and deservedly bolded. Looking inward with a negative mindset is guaranteed to yield the worst result if you're dealing with an adversity like ADHD.

</comment><comment><USER82> I prefer diet and exercise over stimulants, but it's HARD to maintain.

There is science behind the former though:

\+ Hunter, fighter, wader theory; having ADHD got us out of our caves and increased random or policy driven exploration [1]

\+ ADHD has benefits to society through neurodiversity [2]

[1]: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8955426](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8955426) [2]: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1578754/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1578754/)

</comment><comment><USER83> I relate to all the problems that OP writes. But what really worked for me was learning to work with my mind. Thoughts appear and they gradually & eventually disappear. The mental agitation will settle down if you learn to observe your thoughts. This is what I learned at Vipassana Meditation which is a 10-day silent retreat and doesn't charge anything (Pay what you can / donation model ).

Rather than taking SSRIs, I would prefer taking time out to meditate for an hour. It will give you focus for 8-9 hours the same as meds (I think) but without side-effects. Just my 2 cents.

</comment><comment><USER84> I have ADD and consider myself somewhat successful (top 2% income earner) but always beat myself up for what I could achieve. My career has mostly been a long string of failures with me being extremely "lazy" but with a few home runs which is what I'm known for. I don't really "work" more than 8 hours a week until I get passionate about something and then I crank on it without break until the kindling has been lit where then I hand it to others for the day to day. ADD has been very hard on my marriage too.

</comment><comment><USER85> Right off the bat, this paragraph totally connected:

"If I'm not interested in doing something, I can't process any thoughts about how to do it. No, I don't mean it's not fun, I mean my brain will not do it. If I don't want to wash a fence, I can't think about how to wash the fence. I go into complete lockup. I ask the question, "how do I wash the fence?" and the answer will not come to me."

I am officially diagnosed with ADHD and am in my 40s - and its not great :-)

</comment><comment><USER86> I'm 34 and I am finally meeting a psychiatrist soon for what I suspect has been ADHD all along. I do not suffer from depression or anxiety (to my knowledge).

I have a perfectly healthy lifestyle - I run 5 days a week, about 40 miles total, eat healthily and sleep well. During my runs (which physically feel painful) I have few moments of clarity in my head. Other than running though my mind has a thousand thoughts all at once that I cannot control...

I tell a story, interrupt myself, get 6 levels deep and then essentially have a stack overflow and can't recover to my main point that took me down that spiral. Nobody can follow my thought process. What I do know is that my mind is stimulated by strong feelings.

I sit at my desk to do work, notice a story about the DOT / airlines soon banning ESAs and proceed to research the legal authority according to the ADA and other provisions in U.S. Code. I waste a lot of time thinking about the stuff I need to do, but I can't get myself to do it. So I don't do anything that is fun for me, nor the work I need to do itself. Only under immense stress due to deadlines (and the potential negative consequences of failing to deliver) I can force myself to crank out work that is of reasonable quality. This is how I went through all of high school and college for example. I was completely sleep deprived as a result.

Never in my life have I been able to finish reading a book for school - I'm bilingual (learned English as a second language), but this isn't a language problem for me. I simply don't know what I read at the top of the page when I get to the bottom. I read incredibly slowly (I have to imagine hearing someone speak the words - this is called subvocalization). If I focus on reading for fun it will probably take me 3-4 months to get through one fantasy books. If I can read 3 books in a year I had a very good year.

At a dinner in a restaurant I cannot pay attention to my friend (or date) in front of me, because other conversations around me draw in my attention and trigger my brain when interesting subjects are raised.

I am not able to focus without extreme stimulation and am completely at the mercy of my brain / mind. This means I can't listen to people well, I get impatient and interrupt people at inappropriate moments.

Yes I'm high-functioning and I do well, I have a crazy amount of energy, but this isn't a healthy way to live. I am not lazy, but my mind is. I am convinced I'm only operating at 20% of my true cognitive potential and output potential.

For these and many more reasons I will be seeking diagnosis for ADHD (or ADD?) soon.

<comment><USER15> Before going down a road that involves powerful stimulants that have a high likelihood of abuse or misuse -- the danger is that they're fun, and one develops a tolerance, just like other similar illegal drugs -- it might be worthwhile to investigate a mediation practice, or other exercises to improve your attention. If you're already high functioning its likely not as bad as it seems.

From experience: First thing to go with the stimulants is healthy sleep; it's often hard to sleep on amphetamines. But in the morning, because you've got a script, you can take a pill and not worry about it (but the body remembers). Next thing to go is healthy eating; you simply don't need to eat when under the influence, or you do -- but you forget. Soon, those things combined could have the potential to turn a high functioning and healthy life into quite the opposite. But in the beginning -- especially if you've never experimented with stimulants recreationally -- you'll feel better than you ever have. Stimulants are euphoric. It's a trap, it wears off. Side-effects are likely. I've said it in a previous comment, but it's profound and interesting until it's not, and once the stimulants are gone a dark depression is very possible.

Attention is like a muscle, but also -- attention isn't everything. It could also be ones attitude towards these things.

Be skeptical -- understand that there might be blind spots in your thinking about your problems.

<comment><USER87> I have NOT found that, when taken at a therapeutic dosage, people with ADD/ADHD thinktheir medications are fun other than the "fun" feeling of satisfaction you get when you complete a task.

I have found that people who do not have ADD/ADHD find those same medications to be fun, however, even at a therapeutic dose.

Otherwise your comments on the effects are spot on. Personally I had to make a choice in my mid-twenties, the meds or a happy-go-lucky life where I feel unfulfilled but I have a fun time.

I used to just sit all day, thinking about what I needed to do, yelling at myself in my head to do it, but never doing anything. Just constant maladaptive daydreaming. I have inattentive type ADD. I didn't develop mental executive functions until I was 28. I started recognizing there was a "manager" in my brain that wasn't there before. I sobbed when I found out most of my peers developed that 10 years earlier.

From what I've seen, people with ADD/ADHD go through a cycle of recognizing then denying that they have a disability. I have done this personally 4-5 times in my life. I will accept I have a disability and deal with it, then eventually decide that it was my environment that was causing the symptoms, only to later come to a point where I once again have to accept I have a disability that cannot be managed entirely with CBT, task lists, meditation, mindfulness, etc... I'm happy for those that feel they can do it without medication, but I also have to wonder if I'm just meeting those people at a point in time before they have to get back on medication again...

<comment><USER88> You're right. Any psychiatrist that prescribes Adderall will tell you that it affects those with ADD differently than those without. Personally, I have never gotten high from it. In fact my medication made me drowsy as a child.

A lot of the medical advice in this thread is dangerous. If anyone reading this thinks they have ADHD, seek a qualified professional's opinion - <USER5> aren't guaranteed to be right but (respectfully) the odds are much better than some dude on HN.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER89> I thought most of this was just normal life tbh

<comment> munk-a And it sort of is - most people get distractable on occasion and feel like this - ADHD is being constantly stuck in that state (with varying intensities). It's similar to the issues of empathy around depression, people get sad and get over it - that's not clinical depression it's just being sad... but since they're confusable people assume that the things they did to get out of sadness themselves will work on people with depression - but no, petting a puppy sadly doesn't fix clinical depression... everyone likes to pet a puppy though, so don't stop bringing people with depression puppies... it's just not going to suddenly switch the person into being fine.

</comment></comment><comment><USER90> I liked this article, but for anyone who suspects they might have ADHD and is looking for a more concrete plan of action:

1\. Take the ADHD Self-Report Scale screening survey. It's been extensively validated and it's only 6 questions long: [https://www.hcp.med.harvard.edu/ncs/ftpdir/adhd/6Q_ASRS_Engl...](https://www.hcp.med.harvard.edu/ncs/ftpdir/adhd/6Q_ASRS_English.pdf)

2\. If you get a positive result, go see a psychiatrist (not a psychologist; they can't prescribe medication). A positive result isn't a diagnosis, but it's the closest you're going to get without a professional.

3\. If you have ADHD, your psychiatrist will almost certainly start you on a stimulant like methylphenidate (Ritalin) or amphetamines (Adderall, Dexedrine, Vyvanse). Take the medication; it is the most effective treatment for ADHD by a wide margin.

4\. Be ready to adjust. The right choice and dosage of medication varies so much between people that the state of the art is "try it and if it doesn't work try something else". Your psychiatrist should work with you to zero in on the right medication and dosage. This takes a while, so be patient and take notes so you can tell what's changed over time.

If you're looking for more comprehensive information, I find the practice guidelines aimed at medical professionals a good mix of practical and rigorous:

[AU] [https://www.racp.edu.au/docs/default-source/advocacy- library...](https://www.racp.edu.au/docs/default-source/advocacy-library/pa- australian-guidelines-on-adhd-draft.pdf)

[CA] [https://www.caddra.ca/wp-content/uploads/CADDRA- Guidelines-4...](https://www.caddra.ca/wp-content/uploads/CADDRA- Guidelines-4th-Edition_-Feb2018.pdf)

[UK] [https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng87/resources/attention- de...](https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng87/resources/attention-deficit- hyperactivity-disorder-diagnosis-and-management-pdf-1837699732933)

[US (child-specific)] [https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/pediatrics/14...](https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/pediatrics/144/4/e20192528.full.pdf)

<comment><USER91> Super helpful comment. Thanks! Shame it got buried towards the end of the thread :|.

</comment></comment><comment><USER92> If this article is an ADD test, I failed .i skimmed the article and skipped the middle. I dunno what I have but I will skim if I get the gist of what the author is saying. I Everyone's behavior is different. Some cannot focus, other lose focus too easily, others cannot finish.

</comment><comment><USER93> I think there's an important distinction between hyperactive thought and hyperactive outward activity. Most people associate ADHD with the latter when it's really more about the former, as this essay describes well.

<comment><USER94> I was diagnosed with ADHD in my 30s because of this. I don't habe hyperactice activity so never thought I could have ADHD. And since I can't see how someone else's brain works, I didn't realize things with me were not normal. It was quite exciting to realize that a lot of things I struggled with could he explained.

<comment><USER58> Same here. My brother has it much worse, and it manifested in him with outward hyperactivity so he got treated and I did not. I got by, but when I finally got into grad school I realized I had a problem that will power couldn't fix.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER95> I've been thinking about this a lot recently and I've come to realize that ADHD symptoms seem to be a lack of skills in certain areas. Each of the symptoms are skills that you can train and become better at.

</comment><comment><USER96> Hi! I'm 31 and do have problems with focusing on tasks, getting things done. All the symptoms listed for ADHD do apply to me up to certain levels.

How do I know this is ADHD and not my bad habits?

</comment><comment><USER97> why did you settle on adhd? adhd people are typically overactive. It means Attention Defecit Hyperactivity. I mean, it is literally about being 'hyperactive'. Like my friend. He's like always walking super fast and very extraverted. He does stuff every hour of the day and never gets tired. I try to keep up but really he has to wait on me. He did have trouble with school, but that's because he's always running off somewhere, not because he's sitting at his desk fidgetting. these days he runs his own company and has a full time job, a lot of social commitments, sports etc. He can't gain any weight because he's always running and lives life at a higher pace than normal so he's very skinny. Also it's widely known ritalin and aderall help everyone with concentration, not just adhd people. so you can't diagnose yourself based on the fact that it helps you. I am not saying you don't have a problem, but i find your case to be atypical for adhd. generally people with concentration problems without hyperactivity end up under the 'add' label. But i don't know everything, of course. it could be something else. or nothing that has any label. it's just that what you wrote about doctors and that you are not listening. you might want to consider listening to them a bit.

<comment><USER98> Your comment is inaccurate in the extreme. You don't understand the basics of the diagnosis, so please don't attempt to apply them across the internet.

<comment><USER97> the thing inaccurate about it is the relatively recent merging of the one term with the other. but you know what, i still think he has to do some more searching to do to find out what the issue is. because from his writing it is unfortunately clear it's more and less than ad(h)d alone can explain.

<comment><USER98> The earliest use of the term in the DSM is "Attention Deficit Disorder (with and without Hyperactivity)". You're clearly working from your own colloquial definitions and applying the contents of a single blog post to an anecdotal data point of your hyperactive friend.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER99> Wish I could stop myself skipping all those lines

</comment><comment><USER100> If only people in the shithole where i live could be a little bit more understanding and empathetic as much as you are guys...

</comment><comment><USER101> Damn this is right on I needed this bad. I just started reaching out to coaches and psychiatrists about my ADD

</comment><comment><USER102> Ive been diagnosed with ADHD since I was in 2nd/3rd grade and have been on Ritalin and now Adderall pretty much the whole time. That article sounds exactly like my experience. This morning I have been avoiding working on a project, and I caught myself staring at my computer with my hands ready but I just couldn't start. I do feel that it is my ADHD, but I also feel that there are other emotions involved. It kind of relates to this post [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22124489](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22124489).

My main piece of advice that I write on every post about ADHD is the following: Get plenty of sleep, exercise, and look into meditating. Using the Waking Up app by Sam Harris has really taught me so much more than I was expecting. For the first time last year I went 3 months without medicine. I wanted to gauge how strong my attention/focus muscle was without medicine. At the end of 3 months I was able to start noticing when I was distracted or in my head and that was such a be improvement for me, because it allowed me to start paying attention again. I also noticed how I was communicating with myself. I went from being negative towards myself because I knew i should be paying attention. To understanding where my mind is at that day and knowing that today might be a harder day than yesterday, but that is okay. Just take it one step at a time.

TLDR: Exercise & Meditation. Mindfulness will help keep you present and away from the endless mind games you can experience with ADHD

</comment><comment><USER103> After reading this article, I think I have undiagnosed ADHD...

<comment> munk-a Please do seek professional care and don't try any of the self-medicating techniques mentioned here. From someone else with ADHD, there's nothing to be ashamed about and if it's hard right now - I hope it gets easier.

<comment><USER103> Agreed - thank you!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER104> Thank you to the article's author and to the poster.

</comment><comment><USER105> Everything in this article is correct, at least for me.

I got fired for performance at my last job about 2.75 years ago. The first two years of working there I had great performance reviews, things went well. It was a high performing YC-backed success story, and I felt just as successful. I was promoted to Lead QA Engineer, and oversaw several projects going at once that I was interested in.

About two years in, it started going south when I lost my Adderall prescription. Eventually I got fired. It was devastating, and the best job I ever had.

I guess after some change at Kaiser Permanente, my primary care doctor was no longer able to write me Adderall. He sent me to psychiatry, which at Kaiser is less than stellar.

Psychiatrist said that unless I can provide proof from elementary school or doctors from my childhood, he's going to have to reevaluate me; from the looks of what he said I might not get a diagnosis. Offered me Wellbutrin. The entire visit was a slap in the face. He thought I was there to get stimulants because I have a drug problem.

Indeed! I do have a drug problem in that no longer am being prescribed the drugs that make me function. I never abused drugs.

Even after talking to a manager, Kaiser refuses let me switch psychiatrists. This was about 2.5 years ago. It took me two months even get an appointment with that Dr; only to have him tell me get lost.

Meanwhile, I've been doing the best I can given the situation. ADHD Affects me greatly and I've lost so much since then.

For one, disorganization resulted in me missing out on exercising my stock options. I thought I had three months, it was 90 days. Missed it by a day!

This was problematic because the company was purchased by Autodesk about a year after I got fired. Would've been a nice liquidity event. ($600K)

I'm still falling incredibly short. I have a lot of trauma around getting fired and feeling like I am insufficient. I have not even applied for a job since leaving. Once unemployment ran out I started ridesharing; i'm doing that off and on for about two years. It barely pays rent but better than being broke and homeless in San Francisco.

Today, it's a struggle to stay relevant. I have pretty much given up on finding a psychiatrist in San Francisco as they all appear booked for months. I have found success in self medication although it's harder to find therapeutic pharmaceuticals then street drugs; not a viable alternative for me.

I'm sort of losing interest in tech. I find enjoyment in many things technical but cannot seem to get myself together. Thinking without finishing my college degree, no relevant work for the last 2 1/2 years, and no treatment for my condition; nobody will want to hire me. Even if they did I am not sure I'd be able to be successful.

Where am I at now? Still ridesharing, trying to make ends meet. My resume is almost rewritten, I have looked at some jobs but not applied for any yet. My world has gotten a little bit smaller than I would like.

Absolutely I need some more structure than what I have.

<comment><USER106> You have to get permission to change doctors or just a limited amount in your network? I was under the assumption you could just switch doctors whenever you wanted as long as in-network, but I hate this whole in-network thing and out of network. Seems so stupid insurance companies dictate your care, but I guess even with socialized medicine than the government decides on your care instead. It just seems like a whole big Ponzi scheme and just another number in a database.

Hmm looked it up and their website says you can change your doctor unless maybe it depends on the state... That URL is coming up for WA, so maybe in CA it's different since insurance companies are usually licensed and separate in every state but share a common brand name.

[https://wa.kaiserpermanente.org/html/public/member- guide/cho...](https://wa.kaiserpermanente.org/html/public/member-guide/choose)

> You can change your doctor at any time, for any reason. Just follow the same > steps as above to select a new doctor.

But I guess every company and plan is different anyways. Seems like an entire racket. Someone I know who recently moved wasn't feeling too great but didn't want to go to the hospital as worried about costs, and called to speak to someone at the front desk and they said they couldn't tell you over the phone if covered or not, would have to see the card in person and specific plan and group numbers. Ended up being nothing though, but what if they were having a more serious issue.

So stupid you can't just pick the best-rated doctor and go to it. Then some cheaper plans probably have crappier doctors who are more disparate. Seems like the whole medical system doesn't let you take control over your own health. Then some doctors end up actually making people sicker too.

<comment><USER107> Kaiser and mental health are a brutal combo. I had Kaiser in my 20's and got depressed. It took them 3 months to see me in their mental health department. I told them I just needed someone to talk to for a bit but they saw me twice, asked me if I needed meds and handed me a flyer for a group that was not associated. I finally just went to a place that had student therapists which worked out well.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER108> I got diagnosed at 24 with ADHD-PI after being the "brilliant but lazy kid" who dropped out of Community College after being put on SSRIs for depression(mostly as a result of feeling like such a failure after being told since I was a child that school would get interesting in college, and it didn't, the SSRIs made me lose all interest in everything), subsequently taking a full-time job, and having a co-worker suggest I might have ADD.

This article spoke to me, I bookmarked it and will probably recommend other people around me read it. I was especially moved by the parts about being traumatized by people treating you like you're a bad person. Made me realize that I'm trying to fight off a depressive episode currently that was probably made significantly worse by my former lover(the breakup/cheating being what caused the episode) constantly acting this way, despite knowing I had ADD.

One part sticks out though as being overly optimistic,

> "and even if you stop taking them or can't get them later you'll still have > those accomplishments. Maybe the emotional impact of seeing yourself finally > achieving things will be so encouraging that it'll eradicate your feeling > that you can't accomplish anything - speaking from experience, it will."

I have to put this in context: So a little over a year ago I lost my job, I had been able to, thanks to adderall, move up to a pretty good position at a small business, that very unfortunately went belly up due to a new landlord who no longer wanted said business in their space and an inability to move due to the business being effectively grandfathered in. About a year later, as part of my breakup I suddenly lost my place of living and as a result, my new semi-decent job. Even with my good job I had been mostly priced out of psychiatric medicine for a couple of years. I didn't get employer based health insurance, and individual ACA insurance has been getting more expensive every year. This was fine at first, which made me not make the necessary sacrifices to keep myself medicated, but over time my symptoms regressed. I'm now making like 20% of what I was when I was medicated and the hill to get back to a satisfactory career position feels utterly monumental.

I now feel effectively trapped by my ADHD, which is completely resistant to being fixed by healthy routines. Since I broke up and moved back in with my parents I've been exercising daily— lifting weights and running—have a pretty amazing diet, meditate, have a group of old friends to socialize with, have good sleep hygiene, and after 4 months of all this I'm still struggling to improve my situation, I'm still depressed, my ADHD is as bad as ever and I've made basically no headway in terms of reestablishing a career. And the fact that when I was on adderall I was the me I'd always wanted to be, able to start (and finish!) things I wasn't interested in, not waste (mountains of) time losing things and keep track of time effectively is now completely out of my reach, really brings me down, a lot.

I SO BADLY want to update my website and work on a software/tech project. I've even gotten as far as figuring an original project out, doing research and wire framing the design. But I'm now stuck in analysis paralysis and my road to Getting There(tm) keeps shifting. I should obviously get on benefits, I paid into the system and deserve unemployment, but every time I've tried to get on it there's problems. I'm on Medi-Cal but apparently I need an office visit to get reregistered in my new county, I ironically got my benefits card after I got kicked out, after a 6 month process; ADHD makes signing up and getting benefits a nightmare, I'm constantly forgetting to do the next step or miss an appointment. Doubly bad when you're depressed as I struggle with feeling persecuted.

I recognize I'm really an asset in the workplace but I need to make moves to find a job and prove my skills. I see people's job hunt infographics where they apply to like 100's of companies, and it's honestly baffling to me, it takes me the better part of a day to tune my resume and write a cover letter I'm happy with.

</comment><comment><USER109> r/ADHD needs this

</comment><comment><USER110> I was diagnosed with ADHD at 19 after being a C student my entire life. I was prescribed Adderall and immediately became an A student overnight. It's actually weird how well it worked. Unfortunately, like others have said, it isn't a cure-all. It felt like a crutch and as my tolerance went up the less effective it was.

Long story short, I ended up discovering marijuana and quit taking my Adderall. Marijuana also made me an A student. After smoking it, I could actually read books instead of just looking at words.

I doubt it would work for everyone but it has certainly worked for me and anytime I need to study, I smoke some weed now. It surprises me how well I understand the subject after I finish. If I try sober, I don't retain anything and I don't understand anything.

In fact, some newer studies show that marijuana is actually an effective treatment for ADHD [1].

[1] [https://www.karger.com/Article/Fulltext/495307](https://www.karger.com/Article/Fulltext/495307)

<comment><USER111> > marijuana

May I ask: which strain do you use?

I've been treating my ADHD with (sparing, irregular use of) the main stimulants, which has worked fairly well.

I've only used cannabis a couple of times, and each time I rather hated how it made me feel.

<comment><USER9> I personally used marijuana for years to help me. The best strains I've found were high potency sativas (like 28%+) like Super Silver Haze or J1. I find the higher the percentage the sativa high tends to be more clear, energetic, and cerebral. If it's too low it's usually "muddied" so to speak.

Additionally, ummm how can I put this, if I took a break from smoking it wouldn't help with my ADD as it would make me anxious. If I smoked weed like a chimney (effectively mitigating most of its normal effects because of the increase in tolerance), it worked really pretty damn well most of the time (I could at least eventually start my work).

For me to have it work right (and I tried a lot of different ways of going about it), and maybe some folks are different, you need to pretty much be high all the fucking time so your tolerance is high enough. I'd smoke an ounce, by myself, in roughly 7 days to give some perspective.

<comment><USER111> Ok thanks for the info. I had previously used a hybrid, and only edible. I've never been able to tolerate putting anything in my lungs.

I'll try a pure sativa later on and see how that feels.

> If it's too low it's usually "muddied" so to speak.

So I think you're saying that even if you take a high potency sativa, but at a lower dose, you don't gain any focus/ADHD relief? That it's only therapeutic at high doses?

I well understand how long term use is often required in order to mitigate some of the less desirable side effects.

<comment><USER112> I'll chime in and say that I was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult and that I love the way marijuana makes me feel and sativa strains are by far the best.

It makes me feel like I'm finally how noticing how beautiful the world is and like I can face all of my challenges head on. I feel like with ADHD it's easy to focus on something that's fascinating and weed makes anything I want to focus on fascinating.

Edibles can be hit or miss even while sticking with the same brand.

I bought a PAX so I could vaporize bud rather than smoking it and I think that's probably the best experience since you know exactly what you're getting without having to smoke.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER113> Not officially diagnosed, but I suffer a lot from ADHD-like behavior. Something I realized recently was that I'm actually getting really distracted by any kind of ambient noises from the background. I can't even listen to music, I won't drown it out and focus too much on the song instead of what I wanted to be productive in. So I tried some protective hearing earmuffs that block out up to 32 decibels of sound, and that surprisingly worked to increase my focus. By isolating myself from all the noises, I could hear my thoughts clearly and my mind wouldn't scatter as easily. YMMV.

</comment><comment><USER114> ADHD is a blessing, not a curse. So many things now would be better left undone.

If I were a doctor or a pharmacist, I'd be more interested in inducing this condition than curing it.

Personal procrastination deep-dives have rewarded myself and my family more handsomely and more permanently than any wage labor ever has.

</comment><comment><USER115> If you haven't already watched it:

ADHD: Essential Ideas for Parents - Dr. Russell Barkely

is essential to understanding ADHD at the neurological level.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSfCdBBqNXY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSfCdBBqNXY)

</comment><comment><USER116> Life, a lifelong struggle.</comment>