Google X employee collapsed on the job due to harsh working conditions - <AUTHOR> https://thenextweb.com/google/2017/04/03/google-x-employee-reportedly-collapsed-on-the-job-due-to-harsh-working-conditions/#.tnw_Gm8pEtUE <comment><USER2> It's clearly not an apples-to-apples comparison, but for comparison, Gabe Newell's response when an employee (Erik Wolpaw) was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis:

> Expecting his condition to require a departure from the company, he spoke > with managing director Gabe Newell, who surprised him by offering an > extended leave with pay. "Your job is to get better," Newell said. "That is > your job description at Valve. So go home to your wife and come back when > you are better."

\- [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Wolpaw#Personal_life](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Wolpaw#Personal_life)

We can't all work at the most lucrative game company on earth, but that sure was classy.

<comment><USER3> There are many countries in the world where it would be illegal to fire an employee with such a condition, and his sick leave pay would be compensated by the government so it's not up to the employer's benevolence. Just saying that you don't have to work for Valve...

(A common argument is that "Companies wouldn't thrive in such a socialist environment". But you can look at Supercell, King and Mojang: all are Nordic game companies with multi-billion dollar valuations and more profits than Valve.)

<comment><USER4> Not to mention the fact that Germany, Europe's economic powerhouse, has strict employee protection laws and strong unions.

<comment><USER5> And an uncompetitive job market for programmers

<comment><USER6> Does the money really arrive at the programmer in the US? The guy at your gated community opens the hand, the states prison opens the hand, the privately paid doctor opens the hand, your university's creditor opens the hand and its all gone. What good is earning less money, when you have to live in constant fear of getting shot?

<comment><USER7> Who lives in constant fear of getting shot?

<comment><USER8> As an Australian living in America, I think "constant fear" is a bit of an overstatement but you have to understand that non-Americans are coming from a place where gun violence is near nonexistent. We have to worry about being shot just about as much as we have to worry about a freak meteor strike.

In America, not only is it now possible, but the UNODC intentional homicide rate [0] is about 4x higher than my home country (Australia) and most of Europe. Yes the rate is still small, yes we're probably overreacting. I have a feeling this will be an unpopular comparison but I'd say our fear of being shot in America is similar to American fear of terrorism after 9/11\. Before 9/11 you simply never had to worry about it. It'd never happened, it wasn't possible. Suddenly it happened and even though the chance a terrorist will kill you is vanishingly small, people worry about it a hell of a lot.

[0]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate)

<comment><USER7> Thank you for the explanation.

Living in the United States I have never been in fear of a shooting and never been exposed to a robbery or such where I was in danger of getting shot.

I just looked at the FBI's UCR statistics to see what others see about my country ;) In my city 1 person was killed in 2014 by any form of murder or negligent manslaughter, regardless of a firearm having been used. I suspect that was a data entry error that should have been zero.

Granted, the US has far more deaths per capita by guns than places that don't have as many guns per capita. Upon research I found this table on wikipedia, showing overall homicides rate per 100,000 by country. This also seems drawn from the dataset you mentioned. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country)

The US was lower than I had expected at 3.9. This is very close to the 4x relationship you mentioned compared to Australia. However, the US Virgin Islands must be horrible at 52.6 per 100,000 people. Guadeloupe (France) is 7.9, and the real loser seems to be Honduras with 84.6 intentional homicides per 100,000 people. That makes me think that for someone living in Honduras, at least one of the people you see today will be dead tomorrow.

I definitely understand people's concern about not wanting to be subject to the dark death dealing of hammer, knife, and machine gun toting drugged Americans, but we're really like any large country. Things have to do with the city that is visited, since the country is vast with many cultures and differences throughout.

<comment><USER8> > I definitely understand people's concern about not wanting to be subject to > the dark death dealing of hammer, knife, and machine gun toting drugged > Americans, but we're really like any large country. Things have to do with > the city that is visited, since the country is vast with many cultures and > differences throughout.

I understand that things depend a lot on where you are within a country but as someone speaking about the safety of a country as a whole, the average is pretty important. It's also worth pointing out that many of the places a tourist would consider visiting are places with above average crime rates.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> This is a better link: [http://www.businessinsider.in/an-ex-military- contractor-work...](http://www.businessinsider.in/an-ex-military-contractor- working-for-google-x-collapsed-on-the-job-and-his-coworkers-say-corporate- culture-is-to-blame/articleshow/57949746.cms)

<comment><USER10> That article gives some more details about when and where it happened:

 _On a cold morning in February 2015, a group of men left the spacious Google X headquarters in Mountain View, California, before daybreak. They traveled more than two hours east to some trailers parked in the middle of nowhere, on private ranch lands in California 's Central Valley...And on this day, their complaints turned into terror. One of their team members, a man in his mid-50s, collapsed on the job..._

While the Central Valley can have searing heat in the summer, it's generally less so in the winter... so I looked up the weather for Merced, CA in Feb 2015 and temperatures were:

Max: 75 °F Avg: 67 °F Min: 55 °F [1]

While 75 is warm when doing heavy labor, it sounds like the article is exaggerating when it refers to _"...extreme temperatures of the Central Valley..."_

[1] [https://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KMCE/2015/2/13/...](https://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KMCE/2015/2/13/MonthlyHistory.html?req_city=Merced&req_state=CA&reqdb.zip=95340&reqdb.magic=1&reqdb.wmo=99999)

<comment><USER11> Max: 24°C Avg: 20°C Min: 13°C For the non imperialists

<comment><USER12> 24°C is considered room temperature in the UK. That doesn't sound hot at all.

<comment><USER13> ? I am also from the UK and I sure as hell wouldn't want to walk/drive for two hours outside in that temprature. Sure it wouldn't kill me but then I'm not in my mid-50s (and perhaps not having enough water on hand)

<comment><USER10> I can't believe someone would look at the forecast and say "Oh no, it's slightly above room temperature today, way too hot to go for a hike!"

I'm in my early 50's and would (and do) gladly go for a 6 hour bike ride in that weather...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Not sure one data point signals a "systemic" issue within Google.

Nor do I fully appreciate, as a reader, the unnecessary connection to Uber's sexism complaints as an editorial addition to portray sensationalist chaos in the Valley.

I don't work for Google or Uber, or anywhere in California - I am just frustrated at how bad tech journalism can be at times.</comment>


Ask HN: Good all-round CS book - <AUTHOR>

I've been coding for 18 months or so, and I'd like to learn more CS theory. Any recommendations for a good book (or other resources)? <comment> tsetse-fly <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=297289>

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=392889>

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=315040>

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=348019>

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=290128>

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=135185>

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45082>

<http://searchyc.com>

<http://www.google.com/search?q=sicp>

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks

</comment></comment><comment><USER2> Wikipedia is an amazing resource for computer science stuff, I've found. For example: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorting_algorithm> .. you can get lost in there for ages. Just make sure you take notes and try to apply what you learn.

Also: <http://delicious.com/popular/compsci>

Also: <http://academicearth.org/subjects/computer-science> (this one is a _goldmine_ )

</comment><comment><USER3> The Computer and the Brain, by John von Neumann

Introduction to Algorithms, by Thomas H. Cormen

The Art of Computer Programming by Donald Knuth [naturally!]

Computation: Finite and Infinite Machines, by Marvin L. Minsky

Godel, Escher, Bach by Douglas Hofstadter

<comment><USER4> Second The Art of Computer Programming, definitely not Godel, Escher, Bach (though it makes for interesting reading).

I really liked 'Introduction to Algorithms' by Cormen, Leiserson, Rivest and Stein, MIT press.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> To get the most useful info for the fewest number of pages/words, I recommend 'The Little Schemer' by Friedman and Felleisen.

Although it's not recommended if you don't have a flexible sense of humor.

</comment><comment><USER6> "Code" by Charles Petzold</comment>


Australian Economist who lost bet will walk from Parliament to Mount Kosciousko - <AUTHOR> http://www.keenwalk.com.au/

<comment><USER2> I thought house prices in Australia would fall... of course politicians would try to try to prop them up, because falling prices would be fatally unpopular for them. But you can't keep funding housing prices forever...

...unless you have a source of money. Australia aka 'the lucky country' has tremendous mining resources. Now these, being commodities (e.g. copper is the same wherever you buy it), are typically cyclical in price, over a decade or so. But a strange thing has happened: Australia is currently one of the few sources of many metals in the volumes needed (by China, predominately): Australia has a 'monopoly' on these 'commodities'.

Thus, the sustained metal prices are propping up the housing market.

I don't know how sustainable this 'monopoly' is - whether e.g. higher prices will justify other countries opening up mines, or accessible reserves will be discovered elsewhere etc. I doubt it can continue indefinitely.

 _disclaimer: this is based on information gathered over years, and might be out of date in some respects._

<comment><USER3> Even though Australia has the windfall mining receipts, it still runs a current account deficit and has basically forever. And although the mining take is large, it's dwarfed by the larger economy. I don't think it is that which is inflating house prices, with the possible exception of some mining towns, where increased wages chase finite supply. But that's not the case on the east coast, for example.

<comment><USER2> I didn't mean that mining is causing it, but facilitating it. The mining income feeds the rest of the economy - without it, the larger economy would shrink: when rents increase, people are willing to pay it because they are employed.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I think economics needs a lot more of this. Economists are rational people, by and large, but a lot of them have very perverse incentives. I think we could see a minor revolution in economic forecasting if we gave stronger incentives for accuracy and vice versa.

<comment><AUTHOR> Absolutely. Every time I see the senior economist from the Westpac bank being interviewed on the television I think :

1 - Why do they keep interviewing him about the future but never talk about how accurate he was in the past.

2 - He is deliberately couching everything he says in 'weasel words' so as to never risk being wrong.

But he wears a suit, has a position of authority and looks like he should know what he is talking about, that seems to be all they want.

Much of the world is a confidence trick.

<comment><USER5> _2 - He is deliberately couching everything he says in 'weasel words' so as to never risk being wrong._

This is often because he has to grossly simplify what his actual research has said in order for it to be consumable by a mass audience.

The papers may spell out certain prerequisites and gotchas quite explicitly, but in a TV interview, that turns into a vague-sounding "it depends".

 _1 - Why do they keep interviewing him about the future but never talk about how accurate he was in the past._

I've often wished that people who made predictions for a living were forced to assign probabilities to their statements, and give some clear definition, so we could keep score.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Check out his Economics blog at : <http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/>

The most interesting thing is that he diagnoses the problems in a very similar way to Peter Schiff, but comes up with almost opposite conclusions.

</comment><comment><USER6> He's using the walk as an opportunity to raise money for Swags for the Homeless, a bit of very cool bed/backpack engineering. <http://www.keenwalk.com.au/homelessness/>

</comment><comment><USER7> 224.7 KM [http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?q=parliament+house+aus...](http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?q=parliament+house+australia&mkt=en- CA&FORM=BYFD#JmNwPS0zNS45MjYzNTU1fjE0OC44NTE0NTQmbHZsPTgmc3R5PXImcnRwPXBvcy4tMzYuNDU2NDMyMDQ0NTA2MDdfMTQ4LjI2MTQ0NDE5NjEwNV9Nb3VudCUyMEtvc2NpdXNrbyUyQyUyMEF1c3RyYWxpYV9fX2VffnBvcy4tMzUuMzA4MjA3ODY5NTI5NzI0XzE0OS4xMjQ2NTIxNDcyOTMxX1BhcmxpYW1lbnQlMjBIb3VzZSUyQyUyMEF1c3RyYWxpYV9fX2VfJnJ0b3A9MH4wfjB+)

That's a long walk for losing a bet.

<comment><USER8> He _is_ taking 8 days to do it, so he's only got to walk ~30km (just under 20 miles) a day.

And although it's up Australia's highest mountain, we don't have "mountains" as most people understand them, Mt Kosciousko is just a medium sized hill piled on top of a medium sized plain. There's barely 1600m (~5000' or ~1 mile) of vertical distance - Canberra's at 606m, Mt Kosciousko is only 2228m tall.

Iain

<comment><USER9> _"... He _is_ taking 8 days to do it, so he's only got to walk ~30km (just under 20 miles) a day. ..."_

Hmm 20 miles a day for 8 days in hilly terrain in April is not to be underestimated. Altitude is one problem. The inland 606m is cold, 2228 is Alpine. The upper Kosciouscko areas is well known for snow to fall, melt then re-melt. I remember going to Kosciouscko as a kid in shorts :) First time I'd been to the snow ~ [http://climbing.about.com/od/mountainclimbing/a/KosciuszkoFa...](http://climbing.about.com/od/mountainclimbing/a/KosciuszkoFacts.htm)

And one other thing... _"... in a nutshell I will be running about 15km every morning, and walking about the same distance every afternoon starting at about 2pm ..."_ ~ [http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2010/02/15/launching- www-...](http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2010/02/15/launching-www-keenwalk- com-au/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> There's probably a good chance that house prices will continue to increase, simply because whoever is in government can't afford the the economy to tank in the short term.

I imagine these subsidies and handouts will continue until the government lacks the ability to positively influence house prices any further, at which point we'll have a much bigger crash.

<comment><AUTHOR> This is Peter Schiff's prediction.

The financial crisis becomes a currency crisis when the politicians keep trying to pump up a false boom by printing money until the rest of the world wakes up to the loss of value in the US dollar leading to massive inflation.

<comment><USER10> I'd say the differences between the two are quite slender, Peter Schiff is merely less optimistic[1] about what will happen politically.

[1] Being less optimistic about what will happen politically is probably a very smart thing. Politicians are not incented on the long term performance of their countries.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> So if someone who was considering buying a house in Sydney (well, an apartment) in the next year or so - because it seems prices just go up and up and up and up and they feel like it will just be completely unaffordable if they don't lock something in soon - what's the bottom line? Should they not buy until after this correction? Any informed HNers want to tell this hypothetical person what to do, since they're only just beginning to seriously start looking into it? ;)

<comment><USER10> As a general rule, buying something because prices just go up and up and up is a good way to get thoroughly shafted.

At the very least consider the following:

a) What is your rent currently compared to your mortgage repayments? If you're going to be paying more, just rent and invest the difference in something else.

b) Do you have ambitions of quitting your job and starting a company? If so, having a large mortgage is only going to hinder that goal (it's far easier to make the plunge when you don't have to worry about servicing a large debt, and it's much less painful to downsize between apartments when you're leasing.)

c) Consider whether you're going to want to do the place up, which can be a huge black hole as far as money is concerned.

d) Finally, if you're living with a partner, consider whether you're willing to have the added financial entanglements that owning a house together will entail.

(I personally rule house ownership out for reasons a), b) and d))

<comment><USER3> Thanks for the reply. Some very good points.

Rent is quite a bit less than mortgage payments would be, but at least with mortgage payments you're paying off _your_ loan, not someone else's! I'm not too worried about (b) because I'd be trying to start something in my spare time, then only quitting the day job if it was actually paying enough for me to do so. Part c - well, I'd be looking for a fairly new place .. and as for (d), it's much too late for that ..

I think that what I'm taking from this article is that I have to identify a lot of "unknown unknowns". I admit that I was naively assuming housing prices around here would just go up forever; this article raises the question that they might not and I need to sit down, learn about this stuff and make an informed decision...

<comment><USER11> On the topic of "paying off _your_ loan": be a little careful with that, because for the first several years of a mortgage (at least as usually structured in the US, but I think this is typical elsewhere too) you're not paying off the principal by very much; and if you rent rather than buy, you are not responsible for building upkeep and the little surprises that an owned home always seems to throw at you at inconvenient times.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Hacking My Mother's Phone to Save Her Memories - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/10/opinion/hacking-phone-privacy.html <comment><USER2> After going through my dad's computer while trying to fix it for him, I realized that there are a lot of things I really don't want to know about my parents. Everything I know about them is enough. Digging through their texts, their browsing history, their emails, etc is not fair in my opinion, and better left unread.

<comment><USER3> I have a similar story.

I bought a used NAS at a garage sale. The woman said it was her husband's, who had passed away a couple months ago.

I took it home and fired it up. It didn't have a password on it or anything. So I went looking through photos of the backyard, birdfeeders, and thought "wow it's so sad this stuff was just given away". I felt bad for the family who might be missing all his photos.

Then after a few more minutes it got way darker. The NAS had what looked like child porn on it. Some candid videos of a teenage girl adjusting her bra when she thinks nobody's looking, some more hardcore porn with someone who either was or at least tried really hard to look underaged.

So now here I was, in possession of child pornography (maybe?), on a drive from a garage sale, belonging to a dead man. That is a fucking dilemma. A million scenarios ran through my head. Was this was some sort of set-up? Would I face criminal charges for possessing this?

I took it to the police, they eventually reviewed it and told me there was nothing illegal on it. They asked me if I wanted it back, I told them to dispose of it.

<comment><USER4> I would have gone to the police with my lawyer, I would have asked for everything I say to be recorded. You were trusting the police to do the right thing bye you. Risky strategy.

<comment><USER3> Yeah in retrospect I should have just put a drill bit through it. But at the time I was just very afraid and wanted to do "the right thing".

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Not quite what I expected when I clicked on this, but anyway.

I would never treat my phone as my only copy of my data. I don't consider phone storage to be permanent OR a backup.

If you're into preserving your memories that are locked into your online services and apps like Google Photos, Facebook, Twitter, etc, I've started a project called Timeliner which downloads your data to your own home computers: [https://github.com/mholt/timeliner](https://github.com/mholt/timeliner) \- I run it on a cron every week.

<comment><USER6> I've been looking for something like this for Reddit. I'd love to be able to pull down all of my comments there (ideally with context).

The only things on my phone that I don't regularly back up are text conversations. I've seen tools that forward all your texts to a gmail account, but I'm not really looking to give all that data to Google assuming they aren't already reading them off my device.

<comment><USER7> I've used SMS Backup and Restore on Android. Exports to xml, and can include mms if desired.

It's pretty good overall, though emojis can cause issues. They offer 2 settings on how to handle them.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Weird title. They never managed to get in to the phone. They just took the SIM out and put it in another phone to use 2FA SMS codes, along with logins they found written down.

<comment><USER9> IMO hacking is getting into a system by any means. Ultimately they were going after the "memories" which were all stored on the cloud. They needed to get into that. They determined they didnt need to get into the phone in order to get into the cloud.

<comment><USER10> I thought iCloud contents were all encrypted?

      No one else, not even Apple, can access end-to-end encrypted information [1]

[1] [https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303](https://support.apple.com/en- us/HT202303)

<comment><USER11> End-to-end encryption only works for "certain sensitive information" according to your link. A close inspection at the link you provided reveals that just about nothing of value aside from the Keychain is E2EE.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I'd feel a bit weirded out at the prospect of someone going through my digital records after I pass. Not so much for my own embarrassment (I'd be too dead to feel that, after all), but to protect the trust and confidentiality of everyone I've communicated with.

<comment><USER13> On the other hand it would be super interesting if we _could_ get in to people's data maybe several generations after they've passed. Imagine what historians could learn about what life was like hundreds of years ago if those people left the same digital footprints that we're creating today.

<comment><USER14> But also imagine all the wannabe journalists that would just do character assassinations on long-dead people revered as heroes for a quick buck and some internet fame. They would completely ignore all the harm it would do.

Worse, there would be those that would do that same thing with plenty of intent to cause harm, especially to the groups they are prejudiced against.

It's the problems from the "right to be forgotten", but taken to the next level.

<comment><USER15> > _But also imagine all the wannabe journalists that would just do character > assassinations on long-dead people revered as heroes_

That's an easy one. Pretty much anyone of notice living today will be labeled a "savage meat eater" and canceled. They will say _" many people were already vegan, why was he/she still eating meat? Clearly a monster. Cancel"_

<comment><USER16> If they fund industrial farming they would be right to make that moral judgement.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I wonder how long (if ever) it will be until we have really good mechanisms for handling digital affairs after death. 1Password has the emergency kit [0] which I really should fill out and store alongside a will but I would need to write one of those first. It's just something that seems so.... antiquated? That's not the right word but writing a will feels like it will involve talking to a lawyer and not be cheap/easy. Does anyone have any good resources for setting up a will (also a living will if possible) through some software/service? I don't really want to trust my will to some startup but I'd use a product that put all the legalese together and I could just hand a binder to a lawyer or shove it in a security deposit box or something like that.

[0] [https://support.1password.com/emergency- kit/](https://support.1password.com/emergency-kit/)

<comment><USER18> I've been diagnosed with Stage IV colon cancer. While I hope to be around for awhile yet, I'm getting things ready for my wife to take over our digital life. Setting things up for easy backup and retrieval, ect. One of the things I've started is a

Word document with instructions on how to backup, what to do if the computer crashes, how to handle 1Password, what subscriptions are important ect. It'll be printed out and put in the safe.

My opinion is modern generations are woefully unprepared for how to handle our digital stuff when we pass. Whereas before we had physical photos, video cassettes, ect. that were easily handled, now everything is digital, sometimes just on phones.

<comment><USER19> Having the physical photos still didn't mean we saved the context and relevance surrounding those images.

I've got boxes of photos from my Mom and Dad and Grandparents. For the most part, they don't have dates or captions. If I don't recognize a face, it's just random imagery that are, for the most part, just noise to my generation. If we knew _why_ something was relevant, that'd be a different story.

If you can record your voice and retell the story behind an image, that could be _golden_ to the people in your life. I only captured a couple of these recordings (just using my cell phone to record), and they're wonderful to listen to.

<comment><USER20> In the 1990s my cousins and I did a series of interviews with my grandfather about his experiences in WWII. Last year my cousin found the cassette tape of her interview and we all listened to it at Christmas. That was the first time I had heard my grandfather's voice in a decade.

In the 90s the stories themselves were interesting but now just having his thoughts in his voice is invaluable. I'd be equally happy with a recording of him describing his weekly coffee with his buddies, or what he had for lunch.

My parents picked up a couple of recordable storybooks for my 2 year old nephew. Right now those mean nothing to him but in 30 years they will be priceless.

<comment><USER21> I did record a special episode of my podcast just one year before he died. He was 86 at that time and my last living grand parent, so it was quite obvious, now or never. I'm really happy to have done 1.5 hours him remembering his childhood and youth as a German teenager during and after WWII [https://jeena.net/pods/6](https://jeena.net/pods/6) (it's in Polish/Silesian)

My other grand dad wrote a long letter just two days before he died. His whole life he was haunted by what he saw and did as a German soldier during WWII, and this is also what he wrote about in that letter which I later translated and published on my website [http://paradies.jeena.net/artikel/zweiter- weltkrieg](http://paradies.jeena.net/artikel/zweiter-weltkrieg) (in German) (need to fix the char set there too).

<comment><USER22> That is very precious material. As the world slides closer and closer to the last of those who saw these things with their own eyes dropping off the chances of repetition are increasing and their real life memories may be just what will stop the next round of madness. Thank you very much for doing this.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> In a related vein, I created a thing called VMSave a few years ago to let people easily save outgoing voicemail messages, something that the carriers make significantly harder than it should be. It's saved almost 15,000 messages so far.

[https://vmsave.petekeen.net](https://vmsave.petekeen.net)

<comment><USER20> This is really neat. I despise voicemail and never use it but for those that do it would be wonderful down the road.

<comment><USER23> Thanks!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> This story is another testament to the dangers of using SMS as second factor.

</comment><comment><USER25> Physical security keys seem nice here. If I am taken out by a bus my master password and backup security key can be used to get in to everything.

<comment><USER26> What happens if they get destroyed in the bus accident?

Or you go missing entirely (lost at sea)?

<comment><USER27> Backup security key implies that there are two, and he already plans for the primary one to be lost.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> There are some pretty explicit instructions as to what should happen to my digital stuff after I pass away, no need for any of my offspring to go digging around in there. If there is anything that I think they need to know I'll be sure to give it to them firsthand.

</comment><comment><USER28> Can't stand to read this. The parts of a person's story they've chosen to keep private are the parts most likely to get interpreted and twisted—fragile, subjective, even mutable truths they've chosen to hold private. That choice is sacred. Shame on those who trespass.

</comment><comment><USER29> Seeing the title, I thought it'd be about Mom who dropped her phone, had a stroke, or whatever. And was still alive. That'd be sweet.

But for dead Mom? That's just plain creepy. Those kids might have learned all sorts of things that, in retrospect, they would have wished they hadn't. As in, for example, who their real Dad was.

Me, all of my machines and backups are full-disk encrypted (LUKS). With >64 character passphrases. So my memories will die with me. Except for those that I share online, anyway. And I do plan, as I get older, to share more freely. Given that there'll be less time to find me.

</comment><comment><USER30> There's no reason to snoop on a dead person's personal data. It's a backstab to privacy.

Nothing to be proud of.

</comment><comment><USER31> One takeaway: always put a PIN on your SIM card?

<comment><USER32> Don't use SMS based 2FA.

NIST recommends against it because it's so easy to hijack.

<comment><USER31> Is it easy to break a SIM pin?

<comment><USER33> What about taking control of the phone number itself? Unauthorized porting can probably be accomplished with a bit of social engineering.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> That's why I think hard drives and passwords should become more widespread in wills</comment>


YADR - The best vim,git,zsh plugins and the cleanest vimrc you've ever seen - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/skwp/dotfiles

<comment><USER2> And the largest ~/.vim/bundle directory you've ever seen with 80 fucking plugins.

Eighty.

And

        set nocompatible

is useless.</comment>


Microsoft's Bing Isn't a Joke Anymore - <AUTHOR> http://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/articles/2016-07-19/microsoft-turns-bing-from-a-joke-into-an-ad-business <comment><USER2> 1) I always recommend to my friends to give Cortana more than a 5 second consideration - especially if they're Windows users. Since Cortana primarily uses Bing, there's always a hesitation - but it's surprisingly fun and an effective AI "assistant." I'm still working on understanding the Office 365 capabilities, as I discover some cool ones here and there

Example that blew away a colleague at work using a Surface Pro: "Cortana - I'm trying to find an Excel function to do X & Y. What should I use?" Not only did Bing find a serviceable answer, but because we made the search while Excel was opened, the function was auto-populated in the highlighted cell.

2) Some of the Bing/Cortana cognitive intelligence APIs are pretty cool and pretty available to anyone. As an example, I was hacking at a chat bot for Skype + Slack for fun one weekend, and I noticed that there was a tool that could take an image, and provide a description of what was in the image. If it was of a baseball player, the level of detail would be down to the color of her/his shirt.

<comment><USER3> "but because we made the search while Excel was opened, the function was auto- populated in the highlighted cell." \- which version of Excel was this? The desktop version (2010, 2013, 2016?) or the XAML version? I'd be surprised if Cortana integrated with the desktop version, considering Office doesn't run in Windows 10's sandbox model, and Microsoft is only allowing sandboxed apps access to the cooler features of Win10.

<comment><USER4> First, classic Win32 apps ("desktop versions") have had access to a subset of useful WinRT components (WinRT the COM replacement, not WinRT the OS SKU) since early in Windows 8's history. (8.1 and 10 both opened up further the WinRT APIs that Win32 apps can consume.) A lot of the APIs only make sense inside the "sandbox" as you refer to it, but it's not locked down quite as much as you think it is. [Then there's the recently built Project Centennial bridge to give Win32 apps even greater access to WinRT APIs and the ability to spin up modern user interfaces in a mixed-interop model and ease transitions between the two types of apps.]

Second, that doesn't actually matter in this case anyway (and is a red herring) because it is Cortana automating Office and not the other way around. Win32 automation is relatively straight forward, including the most basic automation of them all: cut, copy, and paste. It could be Cortana is calling into COM components in Office or even older, more generic Windows Automation COM components. (Which can still be done, with permissions, from "inside the sandbox". Again the "sandbox" is not as locked down as a lot of people seem to think it is, _especially_ in Windows 10.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> What numbers matter here? Usage? Traffic? Referrals? This article makes it seem like revenue?

Just for the heck of it I just grepped the log on my one server. It's got about 200 different domains, mostly smaller sites. About 600k hits today. ~5,000 referrals from Google, ~200 from Bing. Strangely enough there seems to be about 11,000 hits from Bingbot and only about half that from Googlebot crawlers.

I'd be interested in hearing how those numbers compare to other sites.

<comment><USER6> One of my sites yesterday had about 64,000 referrals from Google, and just over a thousand each from Bing and Yahoo (and just under a thousand from Baidu).

Google has indexed more than 50 times as many pages as Bing on that site, and crawls far more aggressively (over a million pages per day), which will both be factors, but the main one is probably still that Bing has less visitors.

So for me Bing is still irrelevant as a source of traffic. Even though I'd prefer to see some competition for Google, there just isn't any. DuckDuckGo referred me just 32 visitors yesterday, so they have even further to go!

<comment><USER7> Do your websites show in the same rank in all three search engines? Do Bing and Yahoo need some specific SEO guidelines to be followed, perhaps? As usually SEO is mostly focused toward Google, perhaps they don't follow the same principles when ranking sites, thus you get less exposition and less visitors. I'm curious...

<comment><USER6> The ranks for the main search terms are similar.

Although my site is in English, over 50% of visitors are from outside the US. Bing doesn't really have the global reach of Google.

For example I get 250 times as much traffic from India with Google rather than Bing, 1000 times as much in Indonesia. Compared to 36 times as much in the US (which is much closer to the ratio of the other sites, which may be more US- focused).

It's probably a bit harsh to call Bing a "local US search engine" (like Baidu and Yandex in their countries), but it certainly needs to get more market share in other countries to compete globally.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Bing does not support literal searches. This is a dealbreaker for me, particularly since their language models aren't very precise if at all employed.

I believe this is why many developers will find Google is a lot better. A lot of our searches are very specific error messages, for example.

<comment><USER9> I'm not knowledgeable about Bing, but Google doesn't support literal searches either if you mean that in the sense of exact string matching.

<comment><USER10> Of course Google supports exact string matching. Just put your term in double quotes.

<comment><USER11> It feels like they haven't for a while, eg this [http://i.imgur.com/zEDt5tD.png](http://i.imgur.com/zEDt5tD.png)

<comment><USER9> People have had this misconception for a long time about Google, I remember having this debate on HN 4 or 5 years ago. I'm not sure Google has ever supported truly exact string matching.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I use Bing whenever I'm dissatisfied with Google's results. Bing has always returned worse results in this case. YMMV.

<comment><USER13> I do this too, especially when Google insists it knows my question better than I do. I'll actually Google the word "bing" in this case.

It feels like a vote of no confidence. I would be absolutely shocked if Google's algorithm doesn't have a special alarm bell for _" 2 dozen search query redefinitions and then they typed fucking 'Bing' into me."_

<comment><USER14> > I'll actually Google the word "bing" in this case.

That's funny. I'm going to start doing that.

I get frustrated w/ Google when I do a search and the top results do not have a single instance of one of my search terms on their pages. I have no idea why they'd do that. So I switch to Bing in those cases.

<comment><USER13> Definitely. Bing has some unique technologies, but they can be partially characterized as being "Google 2 years ago" \- in bad ways but also in good ways.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Anyone have a reference for Bing specific SEO? I mean, in the technical sense.

I've noticed my site ranks _significantly_ worse in Bing/DDG than on Google. All I've done for Google is on page SEO, nothing fancy or Google specific.

I'm wondering if I've set something up incorrectly that I could fix via Bing Webmaster tools or some other method.

Update:

Apparently, this is not so. I now rank the same in DDG/Bing as in Google when I search from my devices.

I can't account for this. Just a week ago (before writing this post) I was ranking much worse, when searching from my devices. But I checked my logs, and I've had no surge in Bing related traffic. So the issue was specific to me?

Would still be very interested in a Bing technical SEO guide, as it would help me troubleshoot cases like that.

Also, I can add that my Bing + Yahoo + DDG traffic is about 3% of the total volume of Google searches. My demographic is young, college educated people who are applying to law school.

<comment><USER13> If I'm understanding correctly, you're seeing a fake rank increase due to personalization. Bing figured out what you're looking for(your site), so it bumps it up the page. Try a device you haven't used yet?

If not, it's hard to say why. There are a few factors.

-Bing might have taken longer to crawl new content.

-Bing seems to value exact keyword matches more than Google does.

-Google likes to show multiple types of content if a query's intent is ambiguous. Bing tends not to do this.

<comment><USER15> I searched in a private browser session. Just tried again with a VPN enabled. Broadly similar results.

I might not have been searching for a broad enough range of stuff before, or maybe I only searched the newest pages.

<comment><USER13> Interesting - if that's your market then I would try this:

1\. Make sure your keyword has a lot of search volume, at least on Google

2\. Add that exact keyword string into a headline on the page, since Bing might not be smart enough to know what its searchers are intending.

3\. If that doesn't work, just wait for Bing to "catch up" to Google for this type of search.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I wonder how much of it is due to their rewards program.

Shameful admission: Bing is my primary search engine, since they pay me (approx $50 over the past 18 months). 90+% of the time the search results are as good as Google, and re-searching when it isnt takes a few seconds.

<comment><USER17> By that measure, you earn about $2.7 a month, and that is sufficient for you to use Bing over Google!?

<comment><USER16> Again, the vast majority of the time, the Bing results are fine. I think I waste maybe 10 seconds a day re-searching things. ~$0.10 for ~10 seconds (approx $360/hour) is more than my job pays.

<comment><USER18> How do you factor in the cost to your reputation when people see you using Bing?

<comment><USER19> I assumed HN community was beyond fashion and opinions like this.

<comment><USER18> It was meant as a joke, but your reply is interesting. Why would you assume that the HN community is "beyond fashion" and particular opinions? We're human beings. We have flaws and biases that lead us to make irrational decisions. Some of the things that HN users do are _hugely_ driven by fashion (in the sense of following ideas before they're proven) rather than empirical evidence - entrepreneurship has fads (lean startup, startup canvas, social businesses, moonshots, etc), software development flits from one methodology to another (agile dev, functional dev, etc). They're fashions that are trying to improve things rather than merely looking different, but that doesn't mean they're not fashionable.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> The amusing thing is that when Bing had its own CEO and its own dev team, it didn't do well. When it was turned into just another Microsoft product, with different parts of it (operations, servers, look and feel, ad sales) handled by the Microsoft organizations that do those for other products, it did better.

Maybe Microsoft has the big multi-product company thing figured out.

<comment><USER21> I think a lot of it is due to Windows 10. If you get upgraded from Windows 7/8, you always start with Edge as your new default browser and Bing as search engine for both browser and Cortana. Most people probably haven't switched back.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> one of my issues with bing is that its primarily targeted to US. most of the cool features are not available internationally. on the other hand google seems to have localized content everywhere (even though Google Now is again not available in my country)

</comment><comment><USER22> Facebook is surprisingly absent of the comparison chart ($8 billion) and Google too ($30 billion)

[http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-22/google- and...](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-22/google-and-facebook- lead-digital-ad-industry-to-revenue-record)

</comment><comment><USER17> I recently wasn't able to find an image on Google Image Search and tried Bing, and to my surprise, found the image in question. Still use Google, but I know that Bing is a good back up option.

</comment><comment><USER23> I'm interested in the stuffs behind Bing rather than the search part. Deep learning, AI, translations, cognitive, etc. I hope Microsoft open up more of their Bing apis.

</comment><comment><USER24> Deal breaker for me is Bing's lack of date filter. I use this most of the time on Google. I read somewhere they added this about a year ago, still missing for me, maybe just a US feature. I still hate Google's so called mobile friendly results on iPad safari, so I have to use iCab browser even though it's slower, so I would try Bing if they added date filter.

</comment><comment><USER25> I wouldn't mind so much, but a lot of shareware programs want to change my default search engine into Bing or Yahoo. Also they want to install toolbars as well.

So I use Linux Mint to avoid that bother, after an Adobe PDF Reader installed a free version of McAfee and i think changed my search engine in Windows 10 because I forgot to do a custom install and tell it not to or whatever.

Firefox changed from Google to Yahoo, and Chrome uses Google and I use more than one web browser to test out webpages and site designs and other stuff. I preview any web app I am designing in different web browsers to see if I need to change HTML or CSS or whatever to make it look better, even how it looks on Mobile devices.

I sort of want my web search to come from Google, I put Adsense on my website and Youtube page. I want to see how SEO works in Google for my Adsense pages.

I admit that Bing has improved over the years, but it is not enough to convince me to switch from Google to Bing just yet. I get more referrals from Google for some reason than I do from Yahoo or Bing.

</comment><comment><USER26> Bing: The "is pepsi okay?" of search engines.

<comment><USER27> Slightly off topic, but I actually prefer Pepsi. I started drinking Pepsi rather than Coke because it's cheaper, not that I ever really disliked Pepsi, but now I find I actually like Pepsi better.

So really it's just conditioning whether people prefer Pepsi or Coke.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> I don't use Bing search, but I switched to Bing maps after Google's last set of changes rendered their map site effectively unusable. Bing maps has been.... really nice. I like it. It does what I want. I was not expecting that.

<comment><USER29> Bing maps is a great service, but you have to know it's there to use it. There's no link to the maps service on the Bing front page or the search result page. You need to know the URL. bing.com/maps is pretty easy to guess, but why hide it?

I'm also a bit surprise that Bing video search is no longer available, at least not in Denmark.

<comment><USER27> maps.bing.com also works. So do images.bing.com and news.bing.com, so I guess they're following the Google schema for that.

Bing video search is available for me in New Zealand, interesting that it doesn't work for you in Denmark.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> I am willing to bet that Bing revenue is mainly from packaged sales that MS does to its corporate clients where they bundle all their products. Other than that, I do so see any logic is paying bing to advertise your product.

</comment><comment><USER31> Have not used Bing on purpose for some time, but is it just me or does it feel quick snappy?

</comment><comment><USER32> I heard something about people using bing because fewer priacy results get blocked on it.

</comment><comment><USER33> Not Bing Search, but views from Bing Maps bird's eye view are often very good...

</comment><comment><USER34> I use Bing for porn

</comment><comment><USER35> As mentioned in the article, and I recall from when I was more heavily invested in the stock market, Bing cost Microsoft billions of dollars every year in lost revenue. We all knew that. But this article goes on to say that it's hard to figure how much Bing brings in and they are only going by what Microsoft says and Microsoft says it's "profitable".

Well, profitable could mean by a dollar, and I don't see any shouting from the rooftops by Microsoft. I also don't see, as someone else brings up, much in the way of their presence in my server logs either.

What really gets me are all the articles that appear on MSN but really turn out to be searches with Bing. Don't know if they still do that. I don't use MSN either.

</comment><comment><USER36> I use MS Edge as my browser. It has a little nifty feature where you highlight words and you can right click and do a "Bing lookup" and it opens a drawer on the right in the same window. It's really nice and doesn't break my workflow like the Chrome alternative which opens a new window.

I still use google for the most part, but I haven't found myself in a situation where I open the Bing drawer and say "Oh god, this is so bad, if only it searched Google instead". So I guess it's not that bad. Maybe I should try switching to Bing full time to see how it goes.

<comment><USER37> Huh? Doesn't chrome open a new tab?

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> Actually, yes it is, Bloomberg.

</comment><comment><USER39> I use DDG as my default at home, Google at work and Bing on my phone. My main complaint is the inability to restrict searches by date from their mobile version.

As others mention the name is just godawful. Chanandlerbong.com would be an improvement.

<comment><USER40> I don't know that as someone who uses DuckDuckGo, you can really complain about Bing's name.

<comment><USER41> Hey, at least Google and DuckDuckGo don't reek of Marketing Team Branding Magic. Dollar-for-letter, Bing kind of sucks.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> At the moment I don't use Bing for two reasons:

1) it's Microsoft

2) it's not better than Google

I'd gladly use it more if they would fix #2. Google has gotten horribly bad about not searching for what I ask it for. It's been castrated. It insists on returning what it _thinks_ I want, not what I asked for. I know that for 99% of the people that's the right thing to do, but I really hate that Google has given the shaft to power users.

<comment><USER43> Can you give an example? Sometimes it cannot find what I am searching for, but I have never thought it was intentional.

<comment><USER44> Try searching for 'hoogle'. What I want is this: [https://www.haskell.org/hoogle/](https://www.haskell.org/hoogle/) \- not the website I am already on typing a search query in to!

tbf, I don't feel the same way as the GP. But this search always struck me as crazy in the past.

<comment><USER43> Not going to lie, I have seen people put Google into the Chrome omnibar, to then search something on Google. When I point the redundancy out to them, I am usually met with, 'Well that's just how I do it.' I bet there are more people doing that, and mistyping, than searching for a Haskell package.

<comment><USER45> I use a lot of devices, on some of them when I type my search into the address bar I get directed to something stupid like Yahoo. So now I've trained myself to always navigate to my desired search engine (usually Google) before performing my search. If it makes you feel better though, I do type out the "[http://"](http://").</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


China's global kidnapping campaign may now be reaching inside U.S. borders - <AUTHOR> http://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/29/the-disappeared-china-renditions-kidnapping/ <comment><USER2> One of the most negative longterm consequence of the G. W. Bush era is the erosion of high moral ground in human rights.

The US, and consequently the western democracies, lost the ability to genuinely criticize the bad guys for doing bad things like torture or kidnapping. Of course, the situation in China is not comparable to US, but we lost the argument.

<comment><USER3> You think the US was behaving morally through the 70s, 80s, and 90s?

<comment><USER2> Of course not, there are several examples of democratically elected governments overthrown and replaced with brutal dictators, Tuskegee, MKUltra, COINTELPRO, Iran Contra, Dark Alliance. But most of these fuckups were illegal - or at least not officially sanctioned. That changed with 9/11 and Operation Iraqi Freedom. Until then the US never publicly sanctioned torture and kidnapping of individuals.

<comment><USER4>
        > most of these fuckups were illegal
        > - or at least not officially
        > sanctioned.

To people outside the US that are the subject of these campaigns this amounts to nothing more than obscure inside baseball.

Unless something like war crime trials are held, or reparations are paid to the relevant countries it doesn't matter in the least for the end result, or for future such operations whether or not these operations were legal or sanctioned. Nobody involved of any significance ever got charged or convicted, and the US certainly didn't help reinstate the governments that had been overthrown.

The only thing that happened post-9/11 was that the official narrative started more closely resembling the realities on the ground.

<comment><USER2> That is a good point.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> The article notes a difference between Chinese "kidnappings" and US "extraordinary rendition": it's different to threaten people's families back in China as a tool of coercion to leave vs. physically kidnapping them. However, in both cases the sovereignty of the hosting state is being violated.

I wonder how the US will react to having a competitor in that arena...

<comment><USER6> There's a mild difference, in that China has been kidnapping people to take them back to China, where they can be coerced mercilessly. Because we have Constitutional protections in the US, we sent people to other countries... where they could be coerced mercilessly.

Given the relatively recent poisonings of travelling North Koreans and former Russian agents, I don't think that China is the first competitor in extra- territorial clandestine human rights violations.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> A lot of bad press for China lately:

* This article on renditions

* IP theft (e.g.: [https://www.ip-watch.org/2018/04/04/us-imprisons-chinese-sci...](https://www.ip-watch.org/2018/04/04/us-imprisons-chinese-scientist-theft-engineered-rice-seeds/))

* Drug peddling and money laundering ([http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article207911324.html](http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article207911324.html))

* Unfair trade practices and trade war (no link needed for this on HN)

And this only covers what happens outside of China.

<comment><USER8> Relevant: [http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html](http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html)

<comment><USER9> Actually, irrelevant. There would be more articles that are critical of China if newspaper publishers weren't paranoid about losing a shot at a payday buyout from a Chinese media firm.

<comment><USER10> Are you sure? My uninformed guess would be to assume that if you're critical and they can't just shut you down, they'll more likely pay you a reasonable amount to shut up.

<comment><USER11> Sounds unlikely as that would only incentivise being openly (and vocally) critical.

If you have the resources and the time to invest in a long game, scorched earth strategy is likely going to be more effective.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> A few additional references:

"China: Families of Interpol Targets Harassed", Human Rights Watch [https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/01/31/china-families- interpol-...](https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/01/31/china-families-interpol- targets-harassed)

The story of Guo Wengui "The Chinese Fugitive Living In A $67 Million Manhattan Apartment", Forbes [https://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2017/05/19/the- chin...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2017/05/19/the-chinese- fugitive-living-in-a-67-million-manhattan-apartment/)

Side Note: Guo Wengui is a weird figure. He's maintained a very public profile since coming to the US. He regularly posts about the Chinese government on YouTube (some might even call them rants). Just a week or so past he filed a lawsuit against Roger Stone for defamation. [http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/roger-stone-sued-for- defam...](http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/roger-stone-sued-for-defamation- by-guo-wengui-10229139)

Edit: Story from the WSJ about a visit of Chinese state officials to Wengui's apartment. "China's Pursuit of Fugitive Businessman Guo Wengui Kicks Off Manhattan Caper Worthy of Spy Thriller" [https://archive.is/6Utc7](https://archive.is/6Utc7)

Edit 2: Another story from the Economist [https://archive.is/2LSLt](https://archive.is/2LSLt) "China's law-enforcers are going global" quote below:

"Since 2016 Interpol has been headed by Meng Hongwei, who is also China's vice-minister of public security. That year alone China issued 612 red notices. The worry is that China may have misrepresented its reasons for seeking arrests abroad. Miles Kwok, also known as Guo Wengui, a businessman who fled China in 2015, stands accused of bribery. But it was only when he was poised to give an interview last summer in which he had threatened to expose the misdeeds of the ruling elite that China asked Interpol to help secure his arrest. When America refused to send him home, the Chinese government requested a second red notice, accusing Mr Kwok of rape."

</comment><comment><USER13> > But Lee's alleged recruitment may have also led Beijing's operatives to > U.S.-based Chinese nationals.

This part is particularly interesting. If China were to start running a campaign of 'extreme pressure' that adds a dimension to the privacy debate around Facebook and government statistics collection.

A powerful counterargument to 'If you've got nothing to hide'.

</comment><comment><USER14> Kidnapping may be relatively simple to pull off in dirt-poor third-world countries and lawless war zones. But shouldn't it be harder to kidnap targets in an industrialized country with a functioning local police force, effective control of its borders / airspace, and well-organized, well-funded counterintelligence agencies?

<comment><USER15> It would be. Luckily for them they're targeting the US.

<comment><USER16> More dry than the desert.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Extraordinary rendition[1] Reminds me a lot of that. Just Chinese-style. As well as how the DPRK kidnapped people from Japan[2] and South Korea[3]. One of the abductees from South Korea was a famous director, Shin Sang-ok[4] and his wife. Kim Jong Il hoped he would revitalize northern cinema. It's a fascinating story.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition) [2] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_abductions_of_Jap...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_abductions_of_Japanese_citizens) [3] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_abductions_of_Sou...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_abductions_of_South_Koreans) [4] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shin_Sang- ok](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shin_Sang-ok)

</comment><comment><USER18> Let's count the number of people assassinated by the Chinese government and the CIA, shall we?

<comment><USER19> Please don't use HN for national flamewars. They're destructive of the site and off topic here.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)</comment></comment>


How to operate your Regency Model TR-1G transistor pocket radio receiver (1954) [pdf] - <AUTHOR> http://www.regencytr1.com/images/Owners%20Manual%20-%20TR-1G.pdf

<comment><USER2> Technology moved fast in those days as well. My dad bought me a transistor pocket radio around 1960. It stretched the definition of 'pocket'. Definitely not a shirt pocket, though it would fit in a pants pocket barely. If I remember it used two AA batteries.

Gave it to my dad after college so he could listen to Detroit Tiger games. Dad ended up using it until a couple of years when it finally gave out. I wonder how many electronic things we buy today would end up lasting a half century?

</comment><comment><USER3> [http://www.mequonsteve.com/regency/](http://www.mequonsteve.com/regency/). Very cool.

It was only manufactured for a year and sold for an astonishingly high price (for the 1950s) of $49.95.

<comment><USER4> That inflation-adjusted price[1] would be $450.19.

It does seem amazing that a lot of people were paying that much for a pocket radio, but then again $450 is in the same ballpark as a smartphone which everyone happily buys today.

[1] [http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=US%2449.95+1954+dollars...](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=US%2449.95+1954+dollars+in+2015)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> In the event of an enemy attack, your Regency TR-1G will become one of your most valued possessions.

But don't forget, you need a Regency No. 215 22½ volt battery!

<comment><USER6> ... Which you must remove immediately when it's flat or it will leak. The improvements in battery technology are one of the most interesting things.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Seems like they may have been the source of inspiration of VALVe for the Team Fortress 2 manuals: [http://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/440/manuals/Sen...](http://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/440/manuals/SentryManual_web.pdf?t=1412282215) Or this whole generation of manuals in general.

</comment><comment><USER8> Now I know why older folks think of modern gadgets as complicated and difficult to use. The dramatic increase in functionality is accompanied by an equally dramatic increase in complication. Compare the learning curve for somebody using an ipod for the first time to the learning curve for using this for the first time.

</comment><comment><USER9> nice photo of TR-1 in Wikipedia entry for CONELRAD

</comment><comment><USER10> First Commercial Domestic portable perhaps: Definitely not the first Transistor Radio.

The literature shows many earlier radios from various Research Laboratories and Radio Amateurs.

<comment><USER3> We added "commercial" to the title. Will that suffice?

<comment><USER5> Naw, let's go all in and use the _original_ title:

"How to operate your Regency Model TR-1G transistor pocket radio receiver"

(serious suggestion!)

<comment><USER3> Done! (Submitted title was "The manual for the first commercial transistor radio".)</comment></comment></comment></comment>


The best person who ever lived is an unknown Ukrainian man - <AUTHOR> https://boingboing.net/2015/07/30/the-best-person-who-ever-lived.html <comment><USER2> Here is the guy in question: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Zhdanov](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Zhdanov)

He was a Soviet virologist that generated the initial push to eradicate smallpox.</comment>


Ask HN: Survival guides in the wild - <AUTHOR> hello, can you please share with us if you have any good recommendation for a course/book/guide/compendium on survival guide in the wild? I am aware that in the end you have to go out and try it out for real, but before doing that step, what I am looking for is a compendium/book/course which is gathering together survival in the wild lessons, principles, rules, practices.<p>thank you <comment><AUTHOR> nothing? did I post this in the wrong place?</comment>


Gitlab 10.7 Released - <AUTHOR> https://about.gitlab.com/2018/04/22/gitlab-10-7-released/ <comment><USER3> I implemented the HTTPS-only Pages feature in this release.

I just wanted to say that GitLab is a great project to contribute to, with a very friendly and professional community! Definitely recommend to anybody interested in contributing to a project themselves.

[1] [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab- ce/merge_requests/16273](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab- ce/merge_requests/16273)

[2] [https://about.gitlab.com/contributing/](https://about.gitlab.com/contributing/)

<comment><USER4> Thank you.

The issue thread/request for this had been open for something like 2 years and I waited patiently for someone braver than me to implement it.

Now my custom domain on GitLab Pages automatically redirects to HTTPS. I'm happy.

Next up is to add an option to automatically renew Let's Encrypt certs for GitLab Pages.

<comment><USER5> Automatic renewal has also been added in 10.7:

[https://docs.gitlab.com/omnibus/settings/ssl.html#automatic-...](https://docs.gitlab.com/omnibus/settings/ssl.html#automatic- renewal)

<comment><USER6> Quick note, the existing Let's Encrypt integration does not support Pages. We are working on it, but it's worth noting Pages has multiple modes it can run in.

One is by setting up wildcard domains at the server level, like we have on GitLab.com with gitlab.io. We have an issue open for this, but the primary challenge is that Let's Encrypt requires DNS-01 validation for wildcard certificates, with a new challenge each renewal. That is difficult to automate through our Omnibus package. The issue tracking this work is here: [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/omnibus- gitlab/issues/3342](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/omnibus-gitlab/issues/3342)

The other method allows users bring their own "custom domains": [https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/administration/pages/#custom- doma...](https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/administration/pages/#custom-domains-with- tls-support)

This is easier to manage, as we can do HTTP or SNI validation for each domain without hitting LE's rate limits. We are working on this now here: [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab- ce/issues/28996](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/issues/28996)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I, for one, am very impressed by the capability of this (mostly-remote, IIRC) team to ship so many releases, so fast. We have now one release per month!

We host most VideoLAN projects on our own instance, and the updates are now very smooth, especially compared to the beginning.

Of course, there are features that we care about a lot and are not implemented, because they don't consider them important (or maybe not worth their time, which I understand) but it's a very solid software. I hope it can replace our wiki and bugtracker soon...

<comment><USER8> Awesome that your upgrades are smooth, thanks for posting. We're indeed a completely remote team, see [https://about.gitlab.com/culture/remote- only/](https://about.gitlab.com/culture/remote-only/)

And we do want to make sure that all the features you really need are there. I understand the VideoLan needs [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab- ce/issues/40321](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/issues/40321) and we're prioritizing it.

<comment><USER7> > We're indeed a completely remote team, see > [https://about.gitlab.com/culture/remote- > only/](https://about.gitlab.com/culture/remote-only/)

That's very hard to keep at a constant pace.

> And we do want to make sure that all the features you really need are there.

So far, everything is great, but we would love to have:

\- Custom Fields, in order to leave trac (such a pain, this service is);

\- A way to fork/MR across Gitlab/Github instances: we don't want our instance to become yet another forge, people should use gitlab.com/GH. We would like that people can fork our projects on gitlab.com/github.com and then send PR our way. I understand this is über-hard, but that would be very nice;

\- Be able to update a MR without push-forcing on the same branch, but with a new branch (that allows better reviewing of older versions).

(Btw, we currently use jenkins and we will move to gitlab-ci.)

<comment><USER9> > A way to fork/MR across Gitlab/Github instances

I think ActivityPub would be a good fit for federation across GitLab instances and would have a real chance to displace Github for open-source projects, if implemented right.

<comment><USER10> Hell, git-ssb is already working! ActivityPub would be great for GNU Social or Mastodon (or, of course, Pleroma), but I still have a soft spot for Scuttlebutt.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I wish I could understand the value add of yet another IDE. The whole reason for tech to exist is to improve things around the world, and yet brilliant minds are still spending years building one IDE after another.

"Switching branch and remembering branch names..." is a simple git status. On vim, you can get a file browser on the left by using nerdtree plugin, and to write commit messages on the right side you simply just have another tmux window open for git or other unix commands. Building a new IDE is solving a very marginal problem that could potentially create new problems. Why not spend the same amount of time creating educational videos instead on how to use existing tooling that is already readily available?

Other than this rant, I really like gitlab product (we self host at our coding camp) and deploy tokens is a pretty big value add for us for our CI flow.

Edit: Here's a good usecase for the webIDE:

If you see a typo in a comment, for example, you click the pencil icon on that line, which pops open an editor with your cursor on that line, fix the typo, and can create and submit for review a pull request right there. Less than a minute. [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16212234](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16212234)

<comment><USER12> I'm actually super happy with this feature. I don't actively develop on our product, but I do have small changes every now and then. Typically small bits of polish, but they often require a commit in multiple files. And I'd like to keep those atomic, even if they're put in a merge request afterwards. Now I can do this simply from the web interface. Less friction, more fun, better development :) so sytse, goed werk! :)

<comment><USER11> Thanks for sharing, I did not think about this use case when making my original statement.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I know its not as sexy as new features, but I really wish gitlab took a look at performance. Currently its sitting at 9GiB of Memory on my dedicated server box for basically no users. I tried it on smaller instances but it was so painfully slow I ended up getting a cheap dedicated server from Hetzner.

<comment><USER14> Which is why I personally use Gitea, which is super light and performs very well. But it only has a fraction of the features of GitLab so it's not an apples to apples comparison, but my personal projects and my friends it works just fine. I combine it with Drone for testing and it totally suits my needs, and I host everything myself on a $5 VPS.

<comment><USER15> We use GitLab on prem at work because we want the features. For private stuff or super small teams I'd chose Gitea as well. And/or GitLab.com.

GitLab's performance is a major pain point for us. We throw an absurd amount of hardware at it for mid sized teams.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Gitlab is pretty much the only provider other than CircleCI to get CI right.

I use their hosted gitlab version, but have their CI runner on our ci box that runs docker. It's fantastic.

<comment><USER17> BuildKite is a pretty compelling option. Simple concepts combined with a powerful plugin system.

<comment><USER16> Yeah, I've tried buildkite, and like it, but the thing about CI is it should be immutable. Plus gitlab has pretty good pricing for me for my personal project (free).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Rather comically, I've been unable to import my Gitlab.com repo into an on- prem Gitlab EE instance for the last 3-4 months, due to an import bug -- seems like that's the one import that should be easy to test thoroughly, but apparently not.

Here's to hoping that this version happens to have fixed the issue!

<comment><USER6> Thanks for the report @theptip.

Did you happen to open an issue? It would be great to ensure this one is being tracked appropriately.

<comment><USER18> I opened tickets with GitLab support, which were eventually closed due to inactivity (i.e. support let the issues time out without a resolution, despite me doing two 1-hour live debugging sessions with a support rep and a full stack trace highlighting the failing code).

In general I wasn't expecting to have to raise issues on the open source tracker myself after reporting to internal/paid support, but perhaps that's where I went wrong.

<comment><USER19> I'm working this quarter to help improve our quality of service. If you email me the ticket number(s) at firstname.lastname@example.com I'm happy to dive in and take a look. In theory, if we had clear traces an issue should have been made on your behalf. Happy to help get to the bottom of this.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Is there any roadmap for how the cloud-native chart is progressing? I'm really interested in switching to that, as the current implementation takes almost 15 minutes to restart and uses over 8GB RAM when idle for me.

<comment><USER21> The project hosting our WIP cloud-native chart is public and available at [https://gitlab.com/charts/helm.gitlab.io](https://gitlab.com/charts/helm.gitlab.io)

It's currently in Alpha. You can see a list of ongoing efforts in [https://gitlab.com/charts/helm.gitlab.io/issues](https://gitlab.com/charts/helm.gitlab.io/issues)

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> We use GitLab at a small company (around 15 employees), and love it because it's free in its core offering, self-hosted, and works really well. Conveniently, it comes with MatterMost included out of the box. Great for intra-office communication!

We are at the point where we wouldn't mind scaling up to the paid 'Starter' level of GitLab if it would mean being able to replace Jira as our issue tracker. One thing that worries me though, is how GitLab seems to focus all of the relevant developments in that area (epics, roadmaps, etc.) on their 'Supreme' level of paid plans, which is way beyond our means.

Is there a clear plan for the issue tracking side of things as far as the 'Core' and 'Starter' offerings are concerned?

<comment><USER23> We are continuing to improve our issue tracking / project management at different tiers. You can take a look at these epics and issues to see much of the work that we have already planned. Most of these issues are in Core or Starter:

[https://gitlab.com/groups/gitlab- org/-/epics/8](https://gitlab.com/groups/gitlab-org/-/epics/8)

[https://gitlab.com/groups/gitlab- org/-/epics/5](https://gitlab.com/groups/gitlab-org/-/epics/5)

[https://gitlab.com/groups/gitlab- org/-/epics/6](https://gitlab.com/groups/gitlab-org/-/epics/6)

[https://gitlab.com/groups/gitlab- org/-/epics/22](https://gitlab.com/groups/gitlab-org/-/epics/22)

[https://gitlab.com/groups/gitlab- org/-/epics/156](https://gitlab.com/groups/gitlab-org/-/epics/156)

[https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab- ee/issues/3969](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee/issues/3969)

Highlights are bulk subscriptions of issues, better subgroup support for labels and milestones, and expanded issue weight support.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> There seem to be several people involved with GitLab here, so maybe one of you would be kind enough to answer the question I've had for a long time: what exactly _is_ GitLab? I've met several people who speak well of it or mention particular things they use it for, so I have to assume there is something very useful in there, but unfortunately I've always found the web site more confusing than enlightening.

<comment><USER21> Glad to hear you're interested Silhouette!

> what exactly is GitLab?

Here's a couple of points that might shed some more light on it: [https://about.gitlab.com/about/](https://about.gitlab.com/about/).

IMHO the first point nails it pretty well: "GitLab is a single application with features for the whole software development and operations (DevOps) lifecycle."

> I've always found the web site more confusing than enlightening.

Did you take a look at our homepage ([https://about.gitlab.com](https://about.gitlab.com)) recently? (we updated it not too long ago)

Which part of it do you find confusing? We'd love to make it better. If more direct feedback is your thing, you can also open an issue about it in [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab- com/issues/new?issu...](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab- com/issues/new?issue)

<comment><USER24> Thanks for replying. I did actually check your home page, and various others on the site, before commenting. The best way I can think of to describe my experience is that it feels like I'm reading something written for someone who already knows what they're looking for and what the context is, but that's exactly what I'm there to find out.

Perhaps some examples would help. For context, I am about to set up the infrastructure for a new project, involving source control, issue tracking, testing, deployment and so on. From past discussions with friends and colleagues who have used GitLab, I had the impression that it was somewhat like GitHub, in the sense of providing a front-end to help manage Git repos and some related facilities like issue tracking and CI, but GitLab was based on OSS and could be hosted locally. So, GitLab seems like something I should be very interested in right now. I'm an experienced developer and familiar with many other tools, so my interest is in whether GitLab might offer a better approach than things we've used before.

However, looking at the site, I can't find anything describing the relationship between GitLab and Git anywhere on the home page. I checked the features page, but again found nothing, aside from a few passing references to actions like merging but only in the context of other functionality. I tried putting "git" into the search box on the documentation page, but again, nothing. Have I just totally misunderstood what GitLab does? And if so, why "Git" in the name?

Likewise, I honestly can't tell whether GitLab is an OSS project or some sort of hosted enterprise "call us for pricing" behemoth (or both or neither). I've seen references to open source and some sort of community edition, but the "Community" link on the top of the site is clearly about something else entirely. There's a pricing page with various plans including a free plan, but while I initially assumed they were for a hosted online service, apparently they're for self-hosted. There is information about many ways to install GitLab locally on different platforms, but it's not clear what you're actually installing at that point or whether you then need some sort of licence to do anything with it. On the features page, each item has two different scales under it, one for GitLab and one for GitLab.com, but I really have no idea what the relationship between those is. There is an entirely separate feature comparison table that is actually linked from the pricing page, but that only shows one of the scales, and suggests that the lower/free tier is quite restrictive. But these look like they're self-hosted options and if there's OSS involved then how does that restriction work?

I hope you'll forgive the brain dump, but other than showing a stream of consciousness as I looked through the site earlier today and how I was unable to answer my two most basic questions, I can't think of a better way to illustrate the difficulty I encountered.

<comment><USER21> I'll try and clear up any confusion you might have about GitLab. Feel free to ask more questions if I left something out.

> I can't find anything describing the relationship between GitLab and Git > anywhere on the home page.

The relation between git and GitLab is that GitLab is a front-end for git. However, it's so much more than that. We strive to offer features that encompass the whole DevOps lifecycle - <USER2> [https://about.gitlab.com/direction/#scope](https://about.gitlab.com/direction/#scope) for more context.

We have an integrated CI/CD system, issue tracker with boards and epics, built-in container registry, monitoring and many many others. All of them are listed in [https://about.gitlab.com/features/](https://about.gitlab.com/features/)

> Likewise, I honestly can't tell whether GitLab is an OSS project or some > sort of hosted enterprise "call us for pricing" behemoth

GitLab Community Edition (CE) is a completely open-source project - [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce](https://gitlab.com/gitlab- org/gitlab-ce) . It's MIT licensed.

We offer a proprietary version with added features - GitLab Enterprise Edition (EE) - [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee](https://gitlab.com/gitlab- org/gitlab-ee) . It has a proprietary license. Even though it's proprietary, Enterprise Edition is source-visible i.e. you can browse the source.

> There's a pricing page with various plans including a free plan, but while I > initially assumed they were for a hosted online service, apparently they're > for self-hosted.

There's both a hosted solution (GitLab.com) and the option of self-hosting. The pricing page has two tabs - one for self-hosted options and the other for GitLab.com

> There is information about many ways to install GitLab locally on different > platforms, but it's not clear what you're actually installing at that point > or whether you then need some sort of licence to do anything with it.

No matter which package of GitLab (Community Edition or Enterprise Edition) you install locally, you'll always be able to access the free tier of features without a license.

> On the features page, each item has two different scales under it, one for > GitLab and one for GitLab.com, but I really have no idea what the > relationship between those is.

There's four feature / pricing tiers for self-hosted instances: Core (Free), Starter, Premium and Ultimate. From left to right, every tier has more features than the previous one. The distribution of features is documented in [https://about.gitlab.com/features/](https://about.gitlab.com/features/) (upper scale).

If you opt for a hosted solution on GitLab.com, there's also 4 pricing / feature tiers: Free, Bronze, Silver and Gold. All public projects have access to Gold-tier features for free. The feature distribution between these tiers is also documented in [https://about.gitlab.com/features/](https://about.gitlab.com/features/) (lower scale).

> There is an entirely separate feature comparison table that is actually > linked from the pricing page, but that only shows one of the scales, and > suggests that the lower/free tier is quite restrictive.

We prioritize features for one of the paid tiers if we think the feature is more relevant for larger organizations.

You can find out more about our stewardship of the open-source GitLab CE project at: [https://about.gitlab.com/stewardship/](https://about.gitlab.com/stewardship/)

<comment><USER25> Hi, I'm rooting for Gitlab. Love your product, team, and particularly the way you all communicate with your customers.

But the root problem may be that the name "Gitlab" does not convey "Full Devops Solution". "Gitlab" the name is memorable, easy-to-spell, but having "Git" as a prefix might make it just a hair too narrow for what the product wants to be.

I am a sample size of one, so unless others have also been confused by the name, please feel free to keep on trucking.

<comment><USER26> Isn't the main feature still Git-hosting? I think the name is fine.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> > For example, you may now define which jobs you want to run just by tuning > project variables, or you can restrict a job to be scheduled only when the > variable is equal to a specific user.

How would this be used in practice?

For example-- suppose I want to give certain users access to my runners when they make a merge request. Can I use GITLAB_USER_NAME in .gitlab-ci.yml to achieve this?

<comment><USER6> @jancsika you could implement a whitelist using this feature, by having jobs only run for specific usernames.

Keep in mind though that these variables can be overridden, so it probably shouldn't be used for security reasons: [https://docs.gitlab.com/ce/ci/variables/README.html#priority...](https://docs.gitlab.com/ce/ci/variables/README.html#priority- of-variables)

To give a more detailed example on the nightly build, you would create a pipeline schedule that ran once per day and specified a variable: [https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/pipelines/schedules....](https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/pipelines/schedules.html#making- use-of-scheduled-pipeline-variables)

Then you'd only trigger the nightly build job when this variable was present, using the `only` flag with the variable you defined for the job: [https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/pipelines/schedules....](https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/pipelines/schedules.html#making- use-of-scheduled-pipeline-variables)

<comment><USER27> Let me see if I understand it.

Let's say I whitelist user "me" and user "foo" using this variable in the .gitlab-ci.yml. Let's also assume I have runners locked to my repo.

Doing _nothing else_ than that, user foo now submits a merge request from their fork to my repo.

Does CI now run for that merge request?

<comment><USER6> If it is a forked project, CI should run in their own project I believe. It should not run on your Runners.

<comment><USER27> That is my understanding, too.

So consider the following common pattern:

1\. Someone (new employee, FLOSS volunteer, doesn't matter) forks my repo. That's the normal way of working in Gitlab.

2\. Someone creates a feature branch, tests it, considers it ready for merging. Again, common flow.

3\. Someone creates a merge request. Totally reasonable.

So far so good. Now let's keep going.

4\. I notice the merge request. It has almost certainly timed out and failed because new users don't come to the job with their own set of runners.

5\. The only sane option is for me to allow them to use my runners. Ok, let's do it-- I must do the following:

6\. Either have them add me to their fork with sufficient permissions to set up the runners, or log in to Gitlab as root, impersonate them, and add myself.

7\. Unlock my runners from my repo and _manually_ enable each one in the new user's fork using the Gitlab UI.

8\. Retry the CI.

9\. When it passes, either a) lock the runners again or b) put up with runners getting used by every single commit by the new user (which nobody, including the new user, wants).

Now, I could probably set up the runners as an initial step in welcoming a new user into the fold. That would save me the failure step #4 above. And maybe I could set up a webhook and an _additional_ webserver to listen for it so that I can only trigger on merge requests.

But that's back to the old svn permissions pattern plus custom server hacks. That is what I wanted to avoid in the first place by using Git.

I really do want to use either a single variable or a single button click to mean "go ahead and use my runners for this particular user's merge requests." Or even, "go ahead and use my runners for this particular merge request." Even that would be a vast UX improvement.

The only serious alternative right now is for me to create a "dev" branch, have new users make merge requests to it, and just make a habit of accept them there to trigger CI. Then if tests pass merge them into master.

But that requires yet more documentation for new users and more complexity in the flow.

<comment><USER6> jancsika, totally understand the forking workflow is not ideal right now. Thanks for sharing your use case and using GitLab.

We are tracking more formal support for this here: [https://gitlab.com/gitlab- org/gitlab-ce/issues/23902](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab- ce/issues/23902)

It's a popular issue, but there are some tricky implementation details to work out.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> Bravo to the Gitlab team on building such a great product. I used to really dislike it, now I'm a big fan!</comment>