I worked as a VP for Jack Ma.  40 lessons I learnt - <AUTHOR> https://www.techinasia.com/worked-vp-jack-ma-40-lessons-learnt <comment><USER2> I'm sorry but some of this just reeks of PR bullshit.

Take your goals, multiply them by 3 and then you exceed them anyway? That is a shocking indictment of your judgement.

Build a great idea? Yeah, we know the idea was great - because eBay was incredibly successful for 8 years before TaoBao was launched and was already in China. The success of Alibaba was it's understanding of the local market and customs, not some unique idea no one else had had.

What I think is also a little naive is this focus on the idea that it's really important to focus on the long term, and long term strategy and that quarter to quarter doesn't matter. This is just naive, it's necessary to success in a startup that you need to focus on the long term quite simply because that's where the pay off comes. But if you're running an existing stable business, you need to worry about the quarter to quarter too. Many many companies have repeated this mantra over the years, but it all falls apart when a few tough quarters come along and the CEO falls out of favour. For the long term to matter you need to have a long term.

Learn from competitors but never copy them? Is this a joke? I really don't know how anyone running a chinese eBay clone can say this with a straight face. It's fine, you ripped them off. MS ripped off Apple, Apple ripped of Xerox. It happens, but what is with this re-writing of history?

How can anyone read this dreck?</comment>


Why I'm Quitting Instagram - <AUTHOR> http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/31/126113/

<comment><USER2> Interesting - I recently just disabled/deleted most of my public online presence as well for much the same reason. Privacy was a concern, but really it came down to the net benefit of having these accounts in my life.

Facebook added nothing to my life - indeed it actually harmed some relationships since I figured people didn't need to communicate directly with me if they could follow my public feed.

Twitter became a vector for me to bitch about the world to no one in particular. Try as I might, I usually ended up sending out a stream of negativity which the world certainly does not need more of and it does nothing good for me personally.

I'm considering ditching LinkedIn, but that seems to be taboo - HR drones seem to expect a LinkedIn profile and get suspicious if there isn't one (this isn't a good trend IMO).

Since terminating many of the "social" media services in my life, I've felt better about how I present myself to the world. I no longer fret about that last tweet I sent out, or feel a need to check on my "feeds". That said, it does leave me looking at my smart phone and wondering what the hell to do with it.

<comment><USER3> "HR drones seem to expect a LinkedIn profile and get suspicious if there isn't one"

a) this isn't true. b) The whole HR drones thing is pretty lame. "Hey I assume I'm way smarter than everyone in this field because I said so".

<comment><USER4> I don't think he was implying that everyone with an HR is a drone. I believe he was referring to the HR industry's less inspired members.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> This is one of the many reasons I'm glad I live in the EU. We're not perfect, but we take the privacy of personal data much more seriously than the rest of the world seems to.

</comment><comment><USER6> let me get this straight - he starts two services that collect social information for sale to 3rd parties (advertisers until they fail, then whoever will buy) - hits a jackpot - and THEN suddenly is altruistic.

is that right?

<comment><USER7> Surely you have something more interesting to talk about than this ad hom attack.

What motivates this sort of attack, anyway? Jealousy? A sense of justice?

<comment><USER8> This is not an ad hominem attack. The author's background is closely related to the subject matter. The fact that he once owned and operated companies that were (possibly?) engaged in much of the same practices brings about relevant questions about the consistency of his views. Was he always of the same mind, but operating in contradiction with his ethical viewpoints in order to make money, or was there some turning point? What motivated that change of viewpoint?

These are relevant questions.

<comment><USER9> You seem to be better informed about my businesses than I am. Would you care to show me where, during my career, I've EVER engaged in profiting from the sale of user data and social information?

You sound like you know what you're talking about, but everything you just said is based on a presupposed conclusion, hedged by the word "arguably".

<comment><USER10> bradley did not use the word "arguably" as far as I can see.

<comment><USER9> He went back and edited his post.

<comment><USER8> I did so to be more fair. It is common practice for media companies to profit from user data (through "marketing" partnerships), but after reading my post "arguably" was too explicit. You should have the opportunity to define the terms of the discussion, seeing that it's about you.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I wrote similar thoughts a couple weeks ago: <http://bckmn.com/pay-for-your- life-online/>

I think the biggest catharsis that needs to happen this coming year is for people to realize how free services actually work.

<comment><USER12> Can you recommend a book that discusses how free services actually work?

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Am I the only one who is gaining more value from Facebook than ever before? Yeah in college it was fun to look at profiles from people you met in class or at parties, and if you weren't part of Facebook you didn't know of the big events or parties unless someone told you.. but that is nothing compared to now. Now I can easily follow updates from my favorite artists, friends who are visiting NYC and want to meet up, and see branded/tech-related stuff I subscribe to all in a compact and useful News Feed algorithm.

Putting privacy concerns aside, which don't affect me personally, Facebook is a utility that is providing more value to me now than it did in college.

<comment><USER10> >Putting privacy concerns aside, which don't affect me personally

I beg to differ.

<comment><USER13> I knew someone was going to point this out. Yes, technically they do affect me but most likely they will have little to no affect on my day-to-day life. There are many negative consequences to the privacy problems that do exist, so I'm more concerned about privacy at large and relevant legislation than my own personal privacy on a day-to-day basis.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> So, let's say you do "delete" your account. Wouldn't your information still be there to be sold? Does any TOS actually say deleting your account deletes all data from that account?

<comment><USER15> Most people try to counter this by deleting all photos and comments, but still, if what you're suggesting is the reality, then it's only a half- measure.

<comment><USER14> Does doing that actually work? Sites have backups which I presume would get sold along with the company. I am just not sure if any service (other than maybe the Well) actually deletes stuff when you say to delete it. The TOS for every site can be modified at will, so I wonder if any service guarantees removal.

<comment><USER16> It certainly doesn't for Facebook. "Deleted" photos remain live for years, probably forever. I imagine that Instragram does the same.

<comment><USER17> Not true [http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/08/facebook-finally- cha...](http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/08/facebook-finally-changes- photo-deletion-policy-after-3-years-of-reporting/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Early adopter stops using service as service becomes mainstream.

</comment><comment><USER19> Very practical reason to quit using multiple online services. Once personal data leaves your computer there is no guarantee what form it will take.

Check our personal cloud service Tonido (www.tonido.com). You will like it and no question of data ownership ever.</comment>


Show HN: Video News Feeds (I find it useful so you may too..) - <AUTHOR> https://news.ao.gl/ <comment><AUTHOR> Just threw together a quick video news feeds page. I am obsessed with knowing about world news and am sick of having to go between channels all the time. I found it easier to just have this on the side of one of my monitors to quickly see what's going on. The Google News feed (bottom right) updates every couple minutes as well..

Sharing this as perhaps other may find it useful too..

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm in the UK, so perhaps other feeds are better for you? List which feeds you care about if you're elsewhere and I could dump them into some dropdown or something..</comment></comment>


FYI: Facebook is breaking shared links - <AUTHOR>

If you share a link on Facebook with a query string, Facebook automatically strips the equals sign out of any empty parameters.  IE:
'ship_id=19&region_id=&duration=&embark_id=15&debark_id=&depart_start=&depart_end='
Becomes: 'ship_id=19&region_id&duration&embark_id=15&debark_id&depart_start&depart_end'
I think this is effectively altering standard browser behavior.
This also breaks my rails app, which is unfortunate.  Looking for a solution on that front, but thought I should make people aware of this asap. <comment><AUTHOR> Fixing my app was easy. I was checking for empty? but now I'm checking for nil? or empty?

I still think it's weird Facebook would do this.

<comment><USER2> You are surprised? Really? :) With Facebook???

I'm surprised they don't change the URL to point to purchasing credits for farmville :)</comment></comment>


CES Was Full of Useless Robots and Machines That Don't Work - <AUTHOR> https://www.thedailybeast.com/ces-was-full-of-useless-robots-and-machines-that-dont-work <comment><USER2> Here's what I want robots to do:

1) Wash my dishes, dry them and put them away completely automatically.

2) Wash and dry my clothes, fold them and put them away completely automatically.

These two things would save me hours of work per week. FoldiMate simply isn't even close to being good enough, but I'd be willing to spend about that much for a robot that could do #2.

I can vacuum my floor by myself and greet people at the door, thank you. I have no use for drones, or bipedal robots, or some kind of other walking robot at all. Alexa and similar provide nothing to me that I've been able to ascertain.

I wouldn't mind some kind of thing that can hold stuff and follow me around (and up and down stairs) on occasion, but that suitcase isn't going to do it.

Anybody who can crack either #1 or #2 is going to break the robotics industry wide open.

<comment><USER3> 1) Get two dishwashers. Alternate them clean/dirty. Think of them as self- washing cabinets from sci-fi.

2) Get a laundry service or maid service.

Save thousands of dollars.

<comment><USER4> Am I the only one that washes dishes immediately after use? No need to even use the machine. Wash immediately after use, let them dry on rack, wipe and put away.

Dishes and laundry are a total non-issue.

<comment><USER5> Have a family of 7 and get back to me on that one. Edit: not trying to be snarky but a use case for a single person or small family breaks down quickly when you have young kids and have special diets(that require an entirely different set of dishes) then you can see where automation is useful.

<comment><USER6> On the other hand, according to the US census, as of 2016 the number of households with 7 or more family members is 1.27% while the number of households with 1 family member is 28.13%. If we take into account the households with 3 or fewer family members we are talking over 75% of the US.

I think it is completely reasonable not to consider your circumstance when giving general advice. The vast majority of people can choose a much simpler solution because they have much simpler problems. It's interesting to hear what people in your situation need to do, but I wouldn't expect many people to relate because they have no such experience.

<comment><USER7> And how about the purchasing power of a family of 1?

<comment><USER8> Is the purchasing power of a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) any higher than someone living alone, specifically when talking about purchasing home appliances?

I mean occasionally my wife and I will both purchase bread on the way home resulting in us having a lot of bread, but I can't think of a time we both accidentally bought a refrigerator or oven on the same weekend.

<comment><USER9> Well, a decent chunk of people living alone are probably renting, so that changes the whole appliance-purchasing dynamics already, but to directly answer your question - yes? The increasingly common dual income family has more income than a single person, and furthermore benefits from the ability to share certain costs efficiently - how would that not result in higher purchasing power?

<comment><USER6> Statistics for disposable income by family size is hard to get (I don't think the US census measures that). My gut feeling is that dual income, no kids families are going to be at the very top because not only are kids incredibly expensive, but not having kids means that you can concentrate on work. Having said that, family size will also skew around age so it's really hard to say. I'll just say that I've never met a family with kids that isn't concerned about money.

But even having more money, will people buy robot appliances? Again, my gut feeling is that singles are actually more likely to buy things like that because the downside of making an ineffective purchase is dramatically lower.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> A weird aspect of CES is that it's THE trade show that blows up outside the US on developing countries. News programs send people to report on what is absolutely certainly the future and coming up if they were to be believed. I've always found it surprising, as no true disruptors are revealed there, and every year it seems to get worse as the article notes.

</comment><comment><USER11> We are talking about machines but during my last trip to Japan I've been blown away by the domotic present in the appartment I rented. There was a self- filling bathtube that I could program directly from the kitchen.

Is there any « bathtube auto-fill/alexa » product in the US? I never been able to find something like that. I'd like to be able to ask alexa to prepare my bath while I'm cooking.

<comment><USER12> Self fill bathtub? That's a good one. I have a "smart" self-adjusting faucet that can be set directly in temperature.

... but I can't live without a washlet (electronic bidet/toilet). I have come to the conclusion that dry manual wiping is out for me, because in the end it just smears a thin film of shit all over. The washlet is nice - the seat is warmed, water is warmed and it dries me "hands free". It's an amazing yet unassuming robot.

<comment><USER11> I will definitely invest in a washlet.

Any link for this smart faucet?

<comment><USER12> yes, something like this: [https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Teka-Pro-Thermostat- Bathtub-Faucet-...](https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Teka-Pro-Thermostat-Bathtub- Faucet-Fitting-Single-Lever-Mixer/942144911)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I used to work in the event services industry and CES no longer needs to exist.

All of the major companies can hold their own press events and promote their products. Why buy an exhibitor booth at CES when you could take the same money and DIY. Apple , Google and Microsoft get this. Also, things like Kickstarter do the same. In a few years CES , E3 won't really exist anymore they are already dead.

<comment><USER14> CES is for brand recognition. There are thousands of products that come into existence and disappear every year. Having to find the website for all of them would never happen. Even aggregators like this site are going to miss most of them. Walking the floors of the convention is a great way to get a huge infodump on what people are planning to sell.

I agree that a lot of what goes on there is a stupendous waste of money, but you are guaranteed to see dozens of products that you've never heard about when you walk the show floor.

The other reason people set up booths there is that they're looking for distribution partners and investors. It's a long shot, but it's better than every distributor and every investor getting a call from every company that wants to make/sell products in the US. This is why you see a ton of Chinese companies with tiny booths with names like Shenzen Happy Fun Heavy Industries just waiting for someone with an investor badge to walk by and make an offer to sell their phone cases and USB cables.

<comment><USER13> I think that Linus Tech tips could singlehandedly eliminate CES.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I have never been to and didn't follow CES, but the little I learned about this one just made me depressed about our civilisational priorities: an unimaginably gargantuan space of Chinese electronic junk largely devoted to servicing the whims of pampered and effete digiratti, all of which will be obsolete, discarded and piling up in landfills a mere few years after it's taken to market. I got about 30 seconds into the news clip about the highlights and had to turn it off.

</comment><comment><USER16> I feel this cycle of hype of several technologies (not just robots) has a larger-than-ever component of the MBA culture wherein pseudo-understanding and handwaving are rewarded. It has the same smell as reading crackpot imaginings about "the body electric" from the 19th century or "quantum neurology" from the 20th.

</comment><comment><USER17> CES 1982: full of useless computers that don't do much of anything, have little to no software available for them, very expensive. (should not be taken literally, the point however is obvious)

Check back in about 5 to 7 years.

</comment><comment><USER18> > A giant banner in the main hallway read "A better life. A better world." But > all I could think of is how much I wanted to be back home in the real world > where, even if it's primitive, most technology just works.

To be fair, most real world tech doesn't just work either.

</comment><comment><USER19> Is it really that surprising that a convention whose whole focus is new and experimental technology would have lots of things that don't work very well?

</comment><comment><USER20> Don't care! It's the golden age of tvs! Oleds are a technology that's actually living up to the hype. I have an lg wallpaper tv and you can roll it up! The new ones look even more flexible. One even rolls up into a box.

Robots will catch up. The future of TVs is now!

<comment><USER21> I want my OLED monitors. I've been waiting for years for an OLED monitor, it's my dream. The closest thing is VA+Quantum Dot monitors, but they just aren't the same.

<comment><USER22> What do you want it for? I recently got an OLED TV which I'm now using as a monitor for games and video, and it's brilliant (although you might think otherwise if you have extraordinary latency demands). I also find the large size of the display more immersive than a conventional monitor.

I still use an LCD for static content (programming; web browsing; etc.) as I want to avoid burn in, but I don't really care about high contrast and wide colour gamut in that use case.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Heatworks made this $300 wonder. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4UgIijI0Z0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4UgIijI0Z0) I am down. Sad to see more hype than substance re:robots.

<comment><USER24> Too small, completely useless.

I don't need a dishwasher to wash a couple of glasses and cutlery. Those take 2 seconds to do by hand.

I need a dishwasher because 20 people were just over and I don't want to be up all night washing. Or we just made an intense meal that needed lots of equipment and I don't want to wash 10 bowls, 3 knives, 4 spoons, a spatula, and a cutting board.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> This article and many comments here completely misses the bigger picture.

Robots is only one way for AI to be expressed. To expect us to be much further ahead with robots shows how wrong most discussions about robots are.

In most industrial settings, robots is the standard and works just fine, in an increasing number of warehouses and other semi controlled environments it's gaining popularity.

Consumner robots ai needs to be much more generalized for them to feel "smart" as they are in much less predictable environments.

To expect consumer robots to be much further than they are makes no sense. Thats not where the primary progress is made just yet and no one maybe besides media and a few opportunistic companies are under that illusion.

</comment><comment><USER26> The next 20 years will be a constant stream of half broken robots and ai systems. At least until we either get them to actually work or we figure out how bad they are and go back to using people again.

It will be like setting up video conferencing, except for everything.

Your car will go to the wrong place because it failed to account for a leap second, thus breaking gps.

Your fridge will put itself in eco mode because it thinks you're on vacation from misreading your calendar and spoils all your food.

Your front door will forget who you are after you get a haircut and lock you out.

After an automatic system upgrade your shower will no longer produce hot water, because a bug results in the system using Celsius instead of Fahrenheit. Your bug report is ignored for a week and after a dozen people complain you get in an argument with the engineer about whether the place you live in actually exists.

Wait. Who am I kidding... You won't be able to talk to an engineer. All support will be automated and it will be impossible to get the robot to understand your complaint. You'll just have to replace it. I suspect you're going to have to replace things a lot.

On the bright side it will probably be really cheap though.

And then there will be all the outages.

One of these days Uber is going to accidentally send all drivers in a big city to a single location. It'll be the great ai outage of 2018, the first of soon to be monthly occurrences of bizarre system failures we can't begin to imagine.

I feel like someone should write a pg wodehouseesque novel about the "smart" future.

<comment><USER27>
      > Your car will go to the wrong place because it failed to
      > account for a leap second, thus breaking gps.

I am taking a hard stance on this: if the car cannot drive without GPS then it is not autonomous.

<comment><USER28> It's reasonable to require a GPS to _navigate_ , but not for moment-to-moment driving, e.g. knowing which lane you're in. Otherwise it won't work in tunnels.

<comment><USER29> Or cities, or elevated roads.

Tall buildings can occlude GPS satellites. And current driving software decides I've gotten on the freeway, with no onramp, going the wrong way mind you, when I'm actually under it

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Love the Simone Giertz shout-out.

And yes, as a father of 3 who spends half his weekend on laundry, I would pay a lot for a really functional laundribot.

<comment><USER31> Why not pay a maid?

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> There are a lot of solutions looking for problems nowadays.

</comment><comment><USER16> This is what you get when you can borrow money for zero or negative interest rates for ten years, and every "investment" looks like gold. Thanks Uncles Bernanke/Draghi/Kuroda.

</comment><comment><USER33> Well TRULY life transforming tech doesn't happen all that often. Oh sure the tech companies are going to say that 2018 TVs and smartphones are so disruptive from last year...

</comment><comment><USER34> I get the sentiment, but I have faith. The RAND computer was probably also quite irrelevant for the household at its time.[1]

[1]: [https://bwithers.files.wordpress.com/2006/12/rand_home_compu...](https://bwithers.files.wordpress.com/2006/12/rand_home_computer.jpg)

</comment><comment> Laura-Vieujean What was your favorite product at CES ?

<comment><USER14> One thing I'd thought about for years finally appeared at CES. They had a mister you attach to the outside unit of your heat pump. It included the deionizer/water softener to prevent the minerals from building up on your A/C.

But then the company ruined it by selling it only as a $100/year service.

<comment><USER35> I bought a pair of those several years ago. It worked for about a year and then broke down. I tried to sell the remaining unit for 90% off on craigslist, and there were no takers. It was the kickstarter version 1.0 of this:

[http://mistbox.com/](http://mistbox.com/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> We are still improving flat panel displays and making smartphones over smart. It feels like there is atleast a decade for AI, Machine learning, NLP, AR/VR to come into mainstream and do some meaningful stuff for mankind.

</comment><comment><USER37> Robotic technology is slowly making its way from more structured environments to less structured ones. Most of the work in factories is now done by robots. The invasion of warehouses is underway (and I'm helping with that). Probably you'll be seeing robots stocking shelves in retail. And folding clothes is substantially harder than stocking shelves and you, the consumer, aren't willing to pay nearly as much for a robot to fold your clothes as a store is for a robot because the amount of labor being replaced is much smaller. So it'll be a while.

</comment><comment><USER38> Didn't we have that topic already? [http://www.businessinsider.com/san- francisco-tech-startups-r...](http://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco- tech-startups-replacing-mom-2015-5?IR=T)

</comment><comment><USER39> I dont like the article. First of all the simone giertz intro was pretty cringey. Second of all you just wrote about yourself being a dick to a bunch of people.

</comment><comment><USER40> Anyone here go to CES who can corroborate the linked story?

<comment><USER14> That stupid laundry folding robot was there. They had a "show" every 15 minutes or so where they would pick a person from the audience to stuff clothes into the machine and have them not folded (the demo machine only had the loader).

I didn't see the crashed companion robots. They were working when I walked by, but I didn't pay them much mind because I thought they were stupid. There were also a number of advertising robots which show up every year. They have screens for heads/chests and don't do much of anything useful. The new addition this year was a French model that was built like a Heroin Chic Supermodel instead of the superdeformed look that most of the Japanese companies opt for.

IMHO, Google's voice stuff was more common than Alexa this year. It actually got annoying to hear someone say "hey Google" for the millionth time. Even the goddamn Monorail was saying it.

<comment><USER41> The companion robots were there last year too (in Sands IIRC). They were also working when I passed them .. singing a creepy old McDonald had a farm. I spoke to a rep and she said kids can get rough with these things so they are targeting seniors. Yeah.. I dunno about this one.

Cruzr was a big robot from a Shenzen company. I really liked it. I have seen Jibo in action .. the Cruzr I saw had a personality that surpised me!

I thought there was another laundry robot that won a prize. I went to a "demo time" but it wasn't a demo .. it was just a talk. They had a video from inside the robot and they were obscuring things. My personal opinion but I was very annoyed at the lack of demo (so were others) and felt they might be hiding something.

The table tennis robot was pretty awesome and so was the dobot magician. I could hardly believe that the same arm was used as a 3d printer, a lazer engraver and a paint brush.

Some of the VR stuff I saw was disappointing. The pimax guys were running the Blu demo .. what a horrible demo to show case their tech. I couldn't tell a difference between it and my oculus. I tried the HTC vive pro at the Intel booth and it was decent (I was able to clearly read text). But what blew me away was the Sansar VR demo.

I was stupid and skipped the Intel wireless headset demo .. kicking myself over it. Saw a bunch of engineering demos that were very cool.

<comment><USER14> That table tennis robot looked like it cost a million bucks.

I will say that VR was kind of absent last year and was absolutely everywhere this year. It still feels like we need a couple of years before the VR stuff is fully baked though.

<comment><USER42> VR is very much here and functional.. I've been playing a few hours a week for the last year. There are certainly less AAA games than the main platforms (which is expected due to the economics of having <5% of the install base), but the ones they do have blow my hair back. One of my favorite things to do with visitors is strap them in and hear them rave when it's better than they expected.. which it always is.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> Still in the era of the sharper image. Gimmicky tech with rush-to-market sensationalism.

</comment><comment><USER44> The pitch deck for the investors must be all drawing boards then

</comment><comment><USER45> CES is a dying trade show, its not worth much of anything of relevance these days.

</comment><comment><USER46> This folding robot was at least more impressive in person.

[https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/10/16865506/laundroid- laundr...](https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/10/16865506/laundroid-laundry- folding-machine-foldimate-ces-2018)

<comment><USER47> Do you work for them? The video on that page never shows it successfully folding anything. The narrator gave it a t-shirt and it failed.

<comment><USER46> Fair enough, it just seemed more impressive in theory. I just did quick search because I saw it at the show.</comment></comment></comment>


Wundrbar (YC W08) launches new iPhone app - <AUTHOR> http://www.whatsoniphone.com/blogs/new-app-store-wundrbar

<comment><USER2> Now that's a tasty treat. There are tons of things I'd love to know if I could find out in 1 second, but not if it takes 30 seconds, several pages, and several screen resizings just to get to the search box.

Purchased. Thanks Wundrbars!

</comment><comment><USER3> Can anyone comment on whether this app can be configured to use non-US sites (by default or otherwise)? Being in Canada, I'd much prefer to search amazon.ca or bestbuy.ca rather than the US-centric .com variants.

<comment><USER4> No, currently we only hook into the US versions of sites, but we hope to let people customize this in future releases.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Great app, emphasizes what's most important in mobile search: speed.

</comment><comment><USER6> Congrats! I hope you guys add support for Dawdle.com soon; we think we're helpful for people inside a GameStop looking at pricing.

<comment><USER4> Thanks! We want ideas for future sites to hook into, so if anybody else has requests, feel free to post them here...

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> congrats guys!!

</comment><comment><USER8> So basically behind the scenes they are really only doing a google search within the site? Google search [www.bestbuy.com: karate kid DVD] will return the karate kid DVD and price from best buy. I don't understand why I should want to pay for this?

<comment><USER4> There's actually a lot more to it than that! For some services like Amazon and Yelp, we hook into APIs for quick retrieval/display of data. For others, we pull back data content from RSS feeds. And for others, like BestBuy, we do pass along parameters to their web services. It varies from service to service. But trust me, there's a lot of tech behind the app!</comment></comment>


200 years after his birth, Chopin remains a key composer - <AUTHOR> http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10055/1038012-388.stm

<comment><USER2> There are a few composers that truly sing to me. J.S.Bach (with a few exceptions) is one, some of Beethoven's work, especially his later string quartets, and sometimes Mozart, because even though he sometimes seems a bit fluffy, sometimes that's what I want.

But I can get lost in Chopin, again and again.

There are others that occasionally hit the mark. Some Janacek, some Bartok, and a surprising amount of Joplin (which is surprisingly sophisticated).

But I always return to Bach and Chopin.

<comment><USER3> I resonate with most of your list, especially Bach and late Beethoven quartets. But I don't listen to much Chopin. Any recommendations?

<comment><USER2> No, I don't have any recommendations. I try to listen to it all, and I often don't even remember the names. Listening to it all means that I learn from the pieces that are too complex for me yet to understand, and I am soothed by those I know well.

Find a CD and listen to one track per day. Some people can find more than that a little overwhelming. I try to listen to the same track three or four times in a day, and get to know the piece.

Some people call me odd, but I would guess that many on HN fall into the same category, if not for the same reasons.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> _the elasticity that Chopin allowed, and the fact that he never played a piece the same way twice (sometimes performing the polar opposite dynamics), have led to a tradition of performance in which his entire works are interpreted with Romantic freedom._

I find that this, plus the fact that many of his typical works are so short, makes Chopin the quintessential YouTube composer.

<comment><USER5> "We have been, let us say, to see the latest Pole/Transmit the Etudes through his hair and finger tips"

\--T.S. Eliot, "Portrait of a Lady"

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Chopin is the best French composer.

<comment><USER7> He was Polish, despite his parisian history, hence his famous mazurkas.

<comment><USER8> It was a joke (I think); like saying "Mozart was the greatest Italian Opera composer." (Also true, imho).</comment></comment></comment>


Big Sur on Unsupported Macs - <AUTHOR> https://parrotgeek.com/bigsur/ <comment><USER2> According to dosdude1's thread on macrumors.com[1], more devices will eventually become compatible and wifi will get patched.

1\. [https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macos-11-big-sur-on- uns...](https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macos-11-big-sur-on-unsupported- macs-thread.2242172/)

</comment><comment><USER3> I just upgraded my wifi card from my MacBook Pro (Retina, Mid 2012). And I love it. Wifi AC and unlock with Apple Watch worked out of the box. Also the upgrade process is easy to do and you have a reason to finally clean the inside of your mac.

<comment><USER4> Typing this on my Mid 2012 rMBP, I'm very interested in the details.

(I put off upgrading because of keyboard issues, and now with the new "Apple Silicon" coming, plus, the machine is great-- I did replace the battery at one point but other than that it's been completely solid.)

<comment><USER5> Apparently you need a BCM94360CSAX from a rMBP 15" Late 2013.

[https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/147393/Can+I+use+its+802...](https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/147393/Can+I+use+its+802.11ac+AirPort+Card+on+my+RMBP+15+\(mid2012\))

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Just realized this is the first time my iMac will not support the next update (iMac 14,3)- if this list is exhaustive and not subject to change, that is.

Due to other crashes and issues I had already been considering the switch to Windows or Linux (I already use those operating systems for other PCs I have in the house).

I've enjoyed using MacOS as my daily driver until Catalina, and even then, there are things I still really like about it compared to other operating systems, but especially now that Apple wants to force me to upgrade hardware to run a newer OS, I'm not sure I want to stay in Apple land.

Maybe it's time.

<comment><USER7> That is a 7 years old iMac. Apple is not forcing you.

<comment><USER8> > That is a 7 years old iMac. Apple is not forcing you.

This attitude needs to stop.

If a user's needs are met with a 7 year old machine and they are happy without upgrading then artificially obsoleting it in the name of capitalism is not progress, it's irresponsible.

<comment><USER9> If he was required to upgrade to Big Sur in order to keep his computer working, I'd agree with you. But nobody is forcing him to upgrade.

I have an old Mac that I use daily that maxed out at Mojave. It still functions fine. Nobody forced me to do anything to it in the name of capitalism.

You said yourself that his current machine meets his daily needs. So what's the problem? It's not going to turn off the day Big Sur is released.

<comment><USER6> Apparently I should not have used the word _forced_ because some people went full-boar pedantic about it unfortunately. It's forced in terms of "if I want to run Big Sur, I have no choice" (thought that was obvious).

Not forced, but unnecessarily _required_ to purchase new hardware to run the _latest_ OS version which should not have any reason for not working on the older hardware. I still think that's a problem.

If there was a feature of Big Sur that required __particular __hardware to run, then I would be more understanding. Yes, I can stay on Catalina on my iMac, but it will continue to get more out of date when Apple could have easily kept supporting it. I 'm understanding enough to know Apple has business reasons for doing it, and maybe even technical ones (that no one has yet explained) but it doesn't mean I agree with it.

<comment><USER10> This is so silly. First, Apple's history is that they will continue to support older hardware with security updates even if they can't support them with the latest OS.

Sometimes older hardware isn't capable of supporting new features. In prior cases it might not have a 64 bit processor or not enough memory, and of course you can't expect support in those cases.

In this it's old WiFi hardware that can't support new features. It would be dumb for Apple to take engineers off making Big Sur more solid for 98% of Macs to waste time on this problem for a tiny percent of the active base.

Apple is doing exactly the right thing. Make it work well for the vast majority, then see if they can take it farther back in the first couple of bug fix releases.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I would love it if Apple allowed us to run Big Sur on the iPad, if I could use one as a more real computer I definitely would. Probably would cannibalize a lot of Mac sales though.

<comment><USER12> Honestly I really wanted them to announce containers on iPadOS in a vein similar to how ChromeOS does it.

Having them later in the presentation say "Hey look at all these ARM containers running on Apple chips on macOS" was an especial kick in the teeth.

I used my potato-tier iPad with a Logic Folio as my main computer for a couple of months while my MacBook was getting replaced and it was honestly a vastly better experience for me save for not being able to get work done because of the absence of spinning up a Linux workspace.

Even if they artificially limited it to iPad Pro (it's Apple after all) I'd still be happy.

<comment><USER13> Current iPads just don't have the hardware support to make this possible. Hence why the DTK won't support all the features mentioned in the keynote. (It's using the iPad chip.)

<comment><USER14> What exactly is missing from an iPad that would allow this to happen?

<comment><USER15> A mouse pointer. macOS was designed for the mouse / trackpad.

<comment><USER16> I had an iPad2 which I jailbroke and used with a bluetooth mouse back then (mostly just because I could).

I can't imagine it's still impossible for them to add similar functionality if it's the only thing holding it back from running macOS.

<comment><USER17> iPad OS does have mouse support actually. I'm really not sure why they haven't made it possible to develop on iPads yet, I know I would get a 13 inch iPad Pro in a heartbeat if I could develop on it and sideload apps onto it.

[https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211008](https://support.apple.com/en- us/HT211008)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> It's interesting that the installer package for the beta is just made available with no authentication…

<comment><USER18> Apple doesn't seem to care all that much, it's been like that for many years now. "swscan.apple.com" is the search keyword to find all the things it offers for downloading (including all versions of macOS since ~Lion or maybe a little later...)

<comment><USER13> Oh, huh, I'll have to look into that. I've often had the need to grab old installers…

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Those older Macs will just need a supported WiFi card e.g. Broadcom.

Hackintosh community deals with lack of driver support every day.

</comment><comment><USER20> We tagged along with the deprecations of the last years (32 bit, kernel extensions, OpenGL), and right before the big payoff, our Macs fell out of support. :)

Do people with unsupported macOS versions still need to modify each patch release or can they update their macOS X.Y.Z to X.Y.(Z+1) without any additional tinkering?

</comment><comment><USER21> Ouch, I was hoping for support on my Late 2008 model, it runs absolutely fine otherwise.

<comment><USER22> Assuming you're not joking, which macOS version are you currently running?

<comment><USER21> Not joking at all, I still use it daily, works fine as a machine for browsing the internet and watching youtube/netflix, with ocassional dev in terminal. Replaced the HDD with an SSD years ago and it's still very brisk. It runs El Capitan 10.11.6, which I don't have any issues with, but I am mildly concerned about the lack of security updates for it.

<comment><USER23> I guess you upgraded the RAM to 8 GB? Because I don't see how the web is usable on a machine with 2 GB of RAM...

<comment><USER24> I'm running a 2011 MBA with way less than 8 GB RAM and the web is perfectly usable. Why wouldn't it be?

<comment><USER23> Sometimes I use a quad-core laptop with 2 GB of memory and no swap (because it doesn't have enough disk space for a meaningful amount of swap) and five tabs is practically a hard limit. Even with adblocking, news sites and sites like imgur or reddit -- or really anything using heavy and fancy scripting or animations -- demand to be the sole tab on the machine.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Seems like I'll need to upgrade the wifi card in my 2012 Macbook Air. As a bonus I would get AC wifi, so it might be worthwhile in general. Good that this is a possibility still in my hardware, and that these tools are made.

<comment><USER26> Same here! and Apple Watch unlock, no password to unlock anymore :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> Seems like Apple is intent to discourage rather than deter people from running unsupported systems. Lack of wifi kills wanting to use Big Sur on unsupported as that's a fundamental unit that is needed for laptop utility.

</comment><comment><USER28> This is the main reason why I'm thinking about not getting a MBP as my next laptop. Apple declares a laptop "vintage" after 5 years and doing so it basically kills any possibility to get the machine repaired since they're not user-serviceable at all. Furthermore they stop updating the OS just a bit later and if you have a newer model with a T2 chip you won't even be able to install Linux on it.

(To be fair though, I'm not sure I would pay for an expensive repair on a 5+ years machine anyway)

</comment><comment><USER29> Apple is actively hostile towards its customers and having to resort to hacks like this are one of the reasons I permanently moved to Linux about ten years ago.

I had a black Macbook (dual-core, maxed out RAM, etc.), which I liked very much and was plenty capable, and Apple decided (I don't have proof, but I'm almost certain it was an instance of planned obsolescence) that Lion (I think?) would not support it. I installed Ubuntu on that machine and it continued to work well until the screen died a few years later.

<comment><USER30> > _planned obsolescence_

Oh boy.

iOS 14 supports iPhone 6s. What's the oldest phone supported by the latest Android?

<comment><USER31> This discussion is about desktop OSes, not mobile.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> After inspecting the patching tool, I made a Homebrew Cask for it in order to have a basic integrity check for peace of mind.

To install the tool using Homebrew, run:

        brew cask install claui/cask-public/patch-installer

To patch the Big Sur installer, run:

        patch_installer.sh <drag the installer partition here>

After patching the Big Sur installer, you can uninstall the tool:

        brew cask uninstall patch-installer

</comment><comment><USER33> Is this helper utility open source?

</comment><comment><USER34> > Sidecar shows up in System Preferences on an iMac14,2 even though it is not > supported and does not work. Does that happen on any other computers?

Yep, that happens on my 2015 Macbook Air, which officially supports Big Sur but not Sidecar.

</comment><comment><USER35> Just download this random zip file and voila, you can run Big Sur and possibly pwn your own computer!

<comment><USER34> Everyone has their own comfort levels, and that's fine. However, dosdude1 and parrotgeek have been doing this for many years, so I think they're pretty trustworthy at this point.

<comment><USER13> Still would be nice if they posted source, though…

<comment><USER34> Check out the tools.zip, as far as I can tell it's just shell scripts and a single library, "Hax.dylib". The source for the latter appears to be included in the download.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> Once you install Big Sur this way, will you get Big Sur updates from Apple automatically?

<comment><USER37> yes, you will get new updates as usual.

<comment><USER36> This is fantastic! I've got a 2012 Mac Mini (switched to SSD and upgraded RAM) and it has been working extremely well. It is nice to know that I can get a few more years out of it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> Patched Catalina at least runs flawlessly on my mid 2010 MBP (7.1). (Note also, upgraded to 16GB ram — officially unsupported — and 500GB SSD). The machine absolutely flies. Using it for home recording and as my daily development (C++ mostly) driver.

<comment><USER39> How did you upgrade the RAM? Isn't it soldered?

<comment><USER38> Thankfully not, I'm terrible with a soldering iron. 13 inch mid 2010 MBP, model number 7.1, I think.

I heard the latest MBPs have soldered ram. Horrible and one of the reasons why I'm not thinking of buying one (besides them being rather pricey!).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> iMac Pro missing in that list?

<comment><USER41> The iMac Pro is officially supported.</comment></comment>


Ask YC: Where do you post ads for programmers? - <AUTHOR>

I've got ads posted on Monster and JoelOnSoftware for a .NET programmer at a Salt Lake startup. I'm getting spotty results. Where does everybody run ads? <comment><USER2> Go to your (local) user groups where your flavour of developers like to hang out. You immediately get a feel of who you would like and what their availability is like.

</comment><comment><USER3> I would suggest joel Spolsky's book on hiring tech folks. He mentions several methods and, although i"m only on page 30, (1) I like Joel's style/approach to most things, and (2) the first 30 pages made sense to me. it's called "Smart and Gets Things Done"

</comment><comment><USER4> I am having similiar results trying to replace myself so I can work full time on my project and getting no serious bites. Next step is to try community college job boards...

</comment><comment><USER5> you could try 37signals board or maybe krop(more designer related)

or good ole craigslist, but i'd recommend asking their level of .net experience and wait for WIDE range of people.

</comment><comment><USER6> elance, odesk, craigslist, and the boards of frequented blogs.

</comment><comment><USER7> craigslist

<comment><USER3> Craigslist is such a gamble. I've found that it's been mostly a waste of time. The way, IMO, to successfully use CL is to use an RSS reader that allows you to define "watches"/"alerts" (like FeedDemon). Create watches for the popular terms you are looking for and then subscribe to CL's resumes board's RSS feed. The more specific you are about the terms you want, the less clutter you'll go through. Putting a watch on "Windows XP" will get you nowhere; putting a watch on "Windows 2008" will find you an early adopter, for example.</comment></comment>


Tumblr's porn ban is going about as badly as expected - <AUTHOR> https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/12/tumblrs-porn-ban-is-going-about-as-badly-as-expected/ <comment><USER2> What is the problem with nipples? I thought it was about porn.

<comment><USER3> It's more complicated than that. "Female-presenting nipples" is a direct quote from the policy: [https://tumblr.zendesk.com/hc/en- us/articles/231885248-Sensi...](https://tumblr.zendesk.com/hc/en- us/articles/231885248-Sensitive-content)</comment></comment>


What clients are proven to be vulnerable to Heartbleed? - <AUTHOR> http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/55249/what-clients-are-proven-to-be-vulnerable-to-heartbleed

<comment><USER2> This is _particularly_ of interest to those of us who e.g. have a web application with an embedded HTTP client for e.g. processing web hooks, hitting APIs, downloading image files for avatars, etc. If your application can be coerced into fetching either a) an attacker-chosen URL or b) _any_ HTTP URL, you can be sent to a malicious server which heartbleeds you. (If the attacker can specify the URL it's trivial, if you get any HTTP URL then the attacker can use a privileged vantage point to MITM the HTTP connection then 301 redirect you to a better URL.) Can you imagine any freed memory in your appserver's process which you wouldn't want an attacker to have? Good answer!

</comment><comment><USER3> We _just_ pushed out a tester (we wanted it for ourselves and decided to make it available to others): [https://reverseheartbleed.com/](https://reverseheartbleed.com/)

Thanks to @patio11 and others for point out the 'other half' of this vulnerability and motivating us to get a quick fix out.

</comment><comment><USER4> yes, don't forget to restart your applications after updating openssl libraries. this includes clients!</comment>


Ask HN: What platform/tool do you use for user documentation (knowledge base)? - <AUTHOR> We're planning to publish some user documentation (non-technical) for a SaaS app. We don't want to host it ourselves. Looking for a platform that is:<p>- CMS-based (can publish/edit/delete articles without the need for a git commit, for example)<p>- Can map to a 'custom domain'<p>- Cheap or free (to start with)<p>Suggestions would be appreciated. <comment><USER2> Github with github pages and content in mdx using [https://v2.docusaurus.io/](https://v2.docusaurus.io/)

For non technical users you can setup a github action to build and push on every change.

</comment><comment><USER3> I used Confluence.

It's not cheap in the long run as up to 10 users is free, but then is $5 month per user. That said, it's one of the best programs I've ever used for documentation and it checks your points.

I don't include a link as this is a new account and I'd be flagged as a bot.

</comment><comment><USER4> We use Gitlab Pages + Markdown + Hugo and that's awesome for technical documentation. For non-technical docs we use Confluence but I don't know a good free alternative

</comment><comment><USER5> Would something like [https://readthedocs.org](https://readthedocs.org) work?</comment>


Show HN: A next gen front-end framework with lots of editable examples - <AUTHOR> http://nx-framework.com/ <comment><AUTHOR> Hi, this is a summary of all the feedback and my proposed solutions.

Browser support: In the short term I will add more data about it and make it more obvious. In the long term I plan to implement this proposal: [https://github.com/RisingStack/nx- framework/issues/3](https://github.com/RisingStack/nx-framework/issues/3) for wider browser support.

Home page browser support: The above solution would solve it in the long term. Until then I will create a static fallback.

Lack of comparison with other frameworks: I would like to leave this to independent sources, but if it is needed I will add some to the home page.

Routing examples not working properly with links: It is a limitation of the nested examples, not the framework. I will fix it with the next home page improvements.

Thanks for all the feedback so far!

</comment><comment><USER2> At least a link to GitHub in the unsupported browser page would be nice.

Edit: nevermind, README has no info anyway

<comment><AUTHOR> Hi!

Good idea, I am going to add it. I am working an a static fallback using this library: [https://github.com/RisingStack/nx- seo](https://github.com/RisingStack/nx-seo).

Sorry about the README, I decided to put everything into the home page, it might have been a bad idea.

Thanks for the feedback!

Edit: You can see the pure HTML fallback page by searching 'nx framework' and viewing the google cached version. I just didn't yet dare to enable it to others than spiders. Sorry for the inconvenience.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Hi!

If anyone has issues with the server not responding please let me know here. I use free hosting (as this is a hobby/open-source project) and it might misbehave. Thanks a lot!

Edit: I got some extra gears, things should work fine from now on.

</comment><comment><USER3> No IE support and only Safari 10 beta (so no iPhone mobile)? I don't want to be rude but here is where I'm out. Even for a hobby projects I can't see myself using this. At work I have to support Evergreen and >=IE-2 (soon to just be IE-1) but even if we aren't talking about work I don't think I could convince myself to use something with such a small audience and something that won't work on my fully updated phone. I;m glad I scrolled down to read that before spending much more time reading about it.

<comment><AUTHOR> I know browser support is a big downside, but it allows me to use ES6 Proxies for data binding using this helper library: [https://github.com/RisingStack/nx-observe](https://github.com/RisingStack/nx- observe). It is something that differentiates it from the others.

The project is in alpha and aimed to be working with the next gen of browsers (Safari 10, Edge). I am really OK with people using it for just hobby projects in the near future. The main reason I posted it is to get some feedback and maybe some contributors.

I will make the browser support text more evident on the page. Maybe a fixed cancellable text in the right corner?

Thanks for the feedback!

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Why it is next gen framework? I can't see it different from angularjs or something angularjs like framework.

<comment><AUTHOR> Biggest differences are:

\- The ease you can get started with it. Just include the script and use it (no config and bootstrapping).

\- The middleware system, which makes it easily extendable and configurable. Something like Express or Koa on the server side for Node.

\- The use of ES6 Proxies for data binding (can be used with getters/setters, inhertied and expando props).

\- Probably speed, but I do not have any trustable benchmarks yet.

\- The use of many simple new native APIs, which makes understanding the code itself and contributing to it easier in my opinion.

<comment><USER5> I feel like ember JS has all these features. Or am I wrong? Sure it uses a transformer but gives you the same features.

<comment><AUTHOR> I don't know much about Ember, so I don't want to compare it with NX here. I just submitted an NX todoMVC: [https://github.com/tastejs/todomvc/pull/1679/files](https://github.com/tastejs/todomvc/pull/1679/files). If you would like to, you can compare it with the Ember one: [https://github.com/tastejs/todomvc/tree/master/examples/embe...](https://github.com/tastejs/todomvc/tree/master/examples/emberjs).

Side note: since it seems like comparisons are requested, I plan to implement the official show off/introduction apps of other frameworks in NX as a way of objective comparison.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Doesn't work on the Latest Firefix on iOS... Thought we did away with these "Please switch browsers" messages... Way worse to show a message like that than to have a few divs not line up perfectly.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hi!

As a first step I will communicate browser support more clearly and gather data about when will support land for the yet unsupported browsers (I know Safari is coming in the fall).

About the home page: I have a server side rendered pure HTML fallback for crawlers, but I didn't yet turned it on for unsupported browsers. I will improve it and turn it on soon. Until then it can be viewed in google cache: [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZHpTEum...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZHpTEum1t1cJ:nx- framework.com/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=hu).

About a fallback: I am thinking about a way to add it.

Thanks for the feedback.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> this routing example doesn't tell me anything. I want to be able to use its links as usual. When I go to [http://nx-framework.com/home](http://nx- framework.com/home) I get the frontpage instead of example.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hi!

Routing is working with links and history buttons. It is the limitation of the nested examples, not the framework (history buttons do work in the examples though.) The problem is that I have to fetch the current example code from the main page on every reload, which I do not do yet.

Links are working perfectly fine in real world situations (non example iframe). I will improve the example iframes to work with links too.

Thanks for the feedback! (You can see more router info here: [http://nx- nxframework.rhcloud.com/docs/spa/router](http://nx- nxframework.rhcloud.com/docs/spa/router))

Edit: to see the router in action with links just try some links to the home page, like this: [http://nx- nxframework.rhcloud.com/docs/spa/analytics](http://nx- nxframework.rhcloud.com/docs/spa/analytics). It uses the NX router.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> This doesn't work on Mobile Safari on iOS9. What is your target audience?

<comment><AUTHOR> Latest Chrome, Firefox, Opera, Edge and Safari 10 beta. The reason is the usage of unpolyfillable ES6 Proxies. I know it is harsh, but I sadly can't support more without dropping some awesome features. NX really aims to be 'next gen'.

<comment><USER8> Okay, will take a look on my computer later. But I guess this is just for hobby projects? Most can't afford to run something that is only supported by so few users (56% [0])

[0] [http://caniuse.com/#search=Proxy](http://caniuse.com/#search=Proxy)

<comment><AUTHOR> Okay, thx. About the nature of the project: it is an open-source hobby project, but browser support will change in the near future with the release of Safari 10.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Getting a 503 service unavailable.

<comment><AUTHOR> ): Sorry, I didn't expect it to be so popular. Checking it.

Edit: should be better now. Thanks for the feedback!</comment></comment>


British-owned .EU domains may be turned off on Brexit - <AUTHOR> https://dot-eu-is-going.uk/ <comment><USER2> previously: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16714581](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16714581)

</comment><comment><USER3> Newspaper editors, thank me later:

EU: "leave.eu to leave .eu", leaving .eu to EU

</comment><comment><USER4> The document [1] that it all hinges off doesn't say that it will all be turned off on exit day but says that post-exit if you have an .eu domain and you no longer meet the eligibility criteria then you won't be able to renew it (section 1 of document 1).

For individual registrants, it hinges off residency, not nationality. So if you are British but resident in the EU you are fine as long as you are using your non-UK address to register. If you are a citizen of an EU country but registered with your UK address then you'll also be caught up.

[1] [https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/notice_to_stakeho...](https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/notice_to_stakeholders_brexit_eu_domain_names.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER5> This is one of those cases where German rigidity shows so well. Yes, strictly speaking, .eu is for EU only. On the other hand, the scenario of a country leaving EU was never before tested. Instead of sticking rigorously to the letter in the .eu regulations, how about revisiting the regulation? Nope, that's not the procedure.

(Disclaimer: I'm an EU citizen living in the UK, and I obviously don't like the whole Brexit happening. Due to this I moved my UK hosted .eu domain back to Hungary. On the other hand, if the new EU copyright proposal passes, I'll join the Brexit camp.)

<comment><USER6> There is zero incentive for any EU country to be flexible with the UK exiting the EU, as that would incentivise even more disruption. If you cancel your membership at a club, you shouldn't expect to maintain some membership benefits of said club, no matter how small they may be.

This (and many more) effects were clear to anyone wishing to look into them before the Brexit vote, and so nothing is happening that couldn't have easily been anticipated.

As a side note, I don't believe that the Brexit decision is legal under UK law, as it's a parliamentary democracy, and as such the referendum was non binding. For a decision like this to be made, parliament has to vote on it, and as far as I'm aware, parliament has done no such thing yet.

<comment><USER7> > There is zero incentive for any EU country to be flexible with the UK > exiting the EU

Millions of non British EU citizens living in the UK would likely beg to differ

<comment><USER8> No they wouldn't. The EU standing up for them - which it does - is the only way they will have more rights than any other migrant worker from around the world. Being flexible would mean abandoning them to get some trade-only, no- free-movement deal.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Maybe there needs to be a tld for Europe that is not mean the European Union. ".euro" or ".europe".

</comment><comment><USER10> Does this make any sense? Years now companies like bit.ly used to get tlds from other countries just to make a nice sounding word. How is .eu any different? BTW I personally find .eu tld tasteless.

<comment><USER11> Each TLD can set their own requirements. For example, .edu domains are only available to educational institutions, .mobi requires you to have a mobile website, etc.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Wow that would be terrible news to wake up to.

<comment><USER13> I've been advising UK colleagues to avoid .eu and other EU ccTLDs for domains recently specifically for this reason. Even if it is possible to buy them now, what happens at renewal? Even simple things like cross-border taxes could be a hindrance.

Too much uncertainty as to whether the UK will be receive a 'Swiss pass' or not. Actually .ch is a good stable ccTLD.

<comment><USER14> Do you have .io domains? If so, you need to get rid of them now because the status of the British Indian Ocean Territory is _a lot_ less clear than the status of any EU country.

<comment><USER13> I don't know anyone personally with .io mainly due to the price and obscurity.

I do know people that have moved from privately-run TLDs like .info and .space to the Big Three or .uk after huge price increases. That was messy.

For all the failings of UK law it does still require a court order to seize a .uk domain. Back that primary domain with a less-catchy .com or .net for infrastructure and you have a stable, price-reslient arrangement.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I struggle to think of any business or important organisation that relies on .EU for its identity and operations - the only ones I've seen use it are political campaigns.

Presumably the answer is to just use a proxy register based in the EU, if this even becomes an issue?

<comment><USER16> How about the European Union, at europa.eu?

My employer's database has a few hundred email addresses ending .eu. The vast majority are scientific institutions, local government, or EU institutions.

<comment><USER15> Well, the EU aren't leaving the EU, are they? So far as I'm aware, no local government in the UK uses .EU as they're on the .GOV.UK SLD.</comment></comment></comment>


"Publishers Are Being Held To Ransom By Apple" - <AUTHOR> http://www.crunchgear.com/2011/02/11/sony-publishers-are-being-held-to-ransom-by-apple/

<comment><USER2> The title actually reads "Sony: Publishers Are Being Held To Ransom by Apple"

Missing off the "Sony:" makes it unnecessarily inflammatory.</comment>


Ask HN: Do you consider anyone a pioneer in computer science since 1990? - <AUTHOR>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pioneers_in_computer_science <comment><USER2> I think it's too early to say, because the impact of work is seen over time.

But candidates probably include Breiman/Cutler for Random Forests, Dean/Ghemawat for MapReduce, Peter Shor for Shor's algorithm, Daphne Koller for machine learning, Jon Kleinberg for network algorithms, Luis von Ahn for human computation.

</comment><comment><USER3> A couple of obvious exceptions are John Carmack (for 3D graphics algorithm design) and Linus Torvalds (for OS design), although whether or not they contributed to 'computer science' rather than their particular software domain is debatable.

<comment><USER4> I would argue that Torvalds merely built upon already established OS principles, rather than being a pioneer in OS design. Linux, by design, is nothing more than an open-source UNIX equivalent. There's nothing wrong with that, of course. It's just not some groundbreaking work. I completely agree with Carmack, however.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> How about James Gosling for Java(1994).

</comment><comment><USER6> The word "pioneer" refers to contributions at the _birth_ of a field. CS is now an established field, there are no more "pioneers" in the sense that there are no longer "pioneers" discovering America by crossing oceans.

There are certainly "pioneers" operating today in sub-domains of CS: in machine learning, artificial intelligence, in parallelization, networking, cryptocurrency etc.

(and countless other fields related to or derived from CS).</comment>


Self-isolation is feeding my Warhammer addiction - <AUTHOR> https://unherd.com/2020/03/self-isolation-is-feeding-my-warhammer-addiction/ <comment><USER2> I haven't played the game since about 2001, when my friends decided it wasn't cool any more. They (we) moved on to Magic: the Gathering instead, which was a problem as I was the teenager with by far the least money in our group. My parents had just about accepted that Warhammer was expensive but intricate and time-consuming (equivalent to my dad's train set in the 1950s), but _15 cards_ for _£$€_? No way. I more-or-less agreed with them.

So anyway, in anticipation of having plenty of spare evenings and weekends in the coming months, I went to the Warhammer shop yesterday, and picked out one of the fantasy races. I bought the "Starter Pack", a 10cm high hero I liked the look of, and the biggest and most expensive monster-heroine-sorceress- something for that race. Plus some paints.

It was probably a life goal of mine, age 14 or so, to be able to afford to do this.

<comment><USER3> Magic, yawn. I played it back in the 90s. The pinnacle of P2W, no matter the format. If you play Type I you face the very expensive power nine cards. If you play Type II every time a new expansion comes out, all your old cards are a goner. If you play something in between, its a hybrid between these two. Hearthstone successfully copied it.

Total War: Warhammer II is a great game which you can play solo and coop. Same for Borderlands 3, a steampunkish FPS (on sale for 50% on Steam until the 20th).

<comment><USER4> I don't play Magic much anymore, but the Commander format is a good balance. The decks stay competitive longer, and the format is mostly casual anyway so most players are there to have fun rather than to win. The format encourages a lot of jank and fun play styles that aren't possible in competitive games, and the cards needed are therefore a lot cheaper.

Even outside of Commander, most players keep a few "casual" decks around which aren't especially competitive, but are designed to play with interesting ideas. If you ask someone to pull out a casual deck, they'll usually agree.

<comment><USER3> Sounds like a fun format. Yes, formats can (somewhat) work around the P2W issue. I've played various experimental formats (back then these were suggested in mags such as Inquest).

There's also a format where you pay for packs. You open a pack, grab one card, and then pass it on to the player left of you. Repeat. Sealed deck or something it is called, but sealed deck itself involves too much around RNG.

I had very expensive Type I decks, and could not be bothered with the hypes around Type II because I disliked how I suddenly wasn't allowed to use certain cards. Which sucks if you got them not right away but later in the game (hence the hype to "buy a box" in start).

The most fun for me, with MtG, was trying to build decks, and _win_ with them (or polish them, and _then win_ with them). Unfortunately, we later found out that the competition was skewed: we had to pay 1 guilder (~half an EUR) to enroll, but the guy who ran it always opened the packs _and replaced expensive rares with cheap ones_ something he previously denied doing.

I had a faerie deck back in the days, with only one expensive card: Pendelhaven. It was a quick weenie deck, and I could add some more expensive cards if my opponent had these as well, such as Nevinyrral's Disk.

<comment><USER5> > There's also a format where you pay for packs. You open a pack, grab one > card, and then pass it on to the player left of you. Repeat. Sealed deck or > something it is called, but sealed deck itself involves too much around RNG.

Close. Sealed is when you get 6 packs yourelf, and construct the best deck you can out of the cards therein. You are thinking of limited, in which everyone gets 3 packs, and takes one card, and passes the rest along, until every person has 45 cards they use to construct a deck.

These are both fun, but as you said, it adds additional RNG to the RNG already present in the gameplay. There are strategies that come with that additional RNG, but there are certainly players who simply find it a turn off. More importantly to me is that it requires buying 3/6 packs per person (~$12/$24) every time to play.

Cube formats are becoming a popular alternative. Instead of opening a set of brand new packs to play, players construct their own card pools and simulate a limited or sealed event from it. This eliminates the need to rebuy new (and potentially already owned) cards, and also allows for players to create interesting card pools that aren't available from packs. But it requires significant upfront investment in terms of planning.

Probably the best format these days for those not interested in the steep costs is Pauper. Its traditional Magic in that you construct your own deck from the pool of all existing cards, but it's unique in that only Common rarity cards are legal. This eliminates a lot of the flashier cards out there, but Magic has been around long enough that there is still lots of creative space in terms of designing unique strategies. There can still be expensive cards, as some are quite old, but because they are all common rarity, really expensive decks tend to cost in the tens of dollars rather than the hundreds.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Anyone interested in getting into the hobby and would like something a bit different, then you may want to give Infinity a look. I often describe it as X-Com meets 40K. Infinity is similar to 40K in the sense that it's in the future and sci-fi with aliens, but a few key differences:

* Rules are free and available on the official website for download.

* Gameplay is much more dynamic with the non active player getting to react to moves made by the active player during their turn. (Much less waiting/doing nothing)

* More near future with current nations represented at places

* Fewer religious overtones

* Bladerunner/Manga aesthetics

* Smaller company, but much more community driven

* Played with fewer figures. A typical full length game will have between 10-20 minis per side.

* Well organised digital competitive play tracking with online leaderboards and tournament organising tools. (This makes tournament matchups much more fair as newbies will be matched against other newbies right away etc)

* Rules are quite a bit more complex than that of 40K. Great for people who like that, but certainly a bit of a learning curve for newbies. (Code One mitigates this, see below)

There's also a new version coming out called Code One that was just announced for pre-orders and is shipping next month. Seems like a good starting point as it's a slightly simplified and quicker version that can serve as a jumping off point to the full game.

[https://www.infinitythegame.com/](https://www.infinitythegame.com/)

<comment><USER7> One of reasons i bought Necromunda Dark Uprising - the terrain there is awesome and can be used for infinity too... and for Kill Team.

I have few friends that are into wh40k, but i want to stealthly convert them to infinity :>

<comment><USER6> Definitely going to give Necromunda Dark Uprising a look then, especially considering the "compatible" terrain. Havent touched Necromunda in a very very very long time, so love the idea of giving it a shot again. Thank you for the tip, and goood luck with your stealth mission ;-)

<comment><USER7> I have to wait for all the magnets to arrive before i assemble it though. The terrain is very modular and it has pre-made spots to fit in magnets.

I am still drilling spots for few other pieces to make is as modular as possible.

It might be a bit hard to get some of them with all the pandemic going on. At least my paints arrived already.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> "A friend who plays more tabletop games than I do tells me that — in terms of the mechanics — as tabletop games go, it's middling" absolutely, just played my first few games of Infinity recently (yes plural each game took around an hour) and was blown away by how much more fun it was to play. The next day we were trying to organise the next session. That never happened with 40K because the games were exhausting and more something you 'got through'.

However as the author says Games Workshop have created an incredibly engrossing setting which pulls you in and enhances all the other aspects of the hobby.

<comment><USER9> My whole group was in on Infinity for a long time.

But eventually the intricacies of Infinity rules gets to you. It is a dense DENSE ruleset that requires constant referral to the rulebook.

It is fun. It is a great setting. But I know it wears on some people due to its complexity.

After a week of work where I'm heavy on the brain-stuff, I've decided I want my games dumber than Infinity.

<comment><USER8> Since we were only playing the most basic rules (it was our first time) I did wonder if it would be as much fun playing with more of the rulebook. There is a new simplified version coming out so I'm hoping that maintains the fun/complexity balance we found.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I'm curious how video game sales will be affected by COVID-19. Anecdotally, I've noticed all my friends who were never previously interested are now messaging me about setting up group matches in Age of Empire, Fortnite, Civilization.

<comment><USER11> What about the implications on bandwidth as well? Internet will be pushed to its limits in streaming and teleconferencing, among other things.

<comment><USER12> I think this already happened back in february during the chinese lockdown. I remember the google forms we were using suddenly started changing every time someone submitted a form, the data they entered would replace the field labels.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I rediscovered yesterday around 2AM why I stopped playing Civilization...

<comment><USER14> "Just one more turn..."

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> The Emperor protects.

But it is simply amazing to see the amount of work being output by The Gaming Workshop in this Universe.

The amount of audio books and novels and depth of world building is simply mind boggling and here I thought Lord of the Rings/Wheel Of Time was huge.

<comment><USER16> I actually started reading some of these novels for this exact reason. I figured that if I liked them, I'll have plenty to keep me occupied for the next several years.

Didn't like the Inquisitor novels, so I stopped that series. The Horus Heresy got a little bogged down in the second book, so I read a summary online and decided to skip the other 50 books (LITERALLY). But the first book in the Gaunt's Ghost series has me intrigued so far, so we'll see how that goes.

I totally agree: The sheer quantity of lore that Games Workshop produces is truly mind boggling. It's more than Star Wars and Star Trek combined I'd bet. Truly insane.

<comment><USER15> Well they finally got to Horus and his legions attacking Terra in circa 2019 ... the first book in the series was published in 2006.

I normally just check out the author (Dan Abnett) or the particular storyline of the plotl (Emperor/Custodes/Alpha Legion/Mechanicus/Titans) before committing myself to listen to the audiobook as they are very well done.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> The zenlike state relates quite well to painting and why so many people still choose to paint/draw in this digital age. And all comes down to doing manual work I think. Some of us are more wired for it, others for different tasks. To me, when I paint it feels I was made for doing this and feels i could do it 24/7 without getting bored. My rational self tempers this urge though.

<comment><USER18> I agree - I get this too. I've often wondered if the John Carmacks of the world have the same thing for coding, in which case, I envy them for being addicted to something so lucrative (as opposed to taking up an activity which is worth next to nil, financially, and is frowned upon, pricewise and socially)

<comment><USER17> Most likely for John Carmacks of the world. One ingredient of the equarion is doing what one wants and is attracted to. I too enter a zen like state when coding sometimes and it's been happenning less and less lately because things got too complicated to fit inside my brain. Recently I started playing in DrRacket and I had a few zen moments so far.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Well, isn't that nostalgic...

I haven't touched my paints and brushes for... let me see, since 2011, when I graduated and started working. Nine years. Huh. There was a time, after I got bitten by the warhammer bug that I would apply paint on just about everything that would take it.

Only the other week I was moving some stuff about the house and found some of my GW stuff and a bunch of my 1/72 historical minis.

Here's my little 1/72 Italeri Indian Warrior:

[https://i.imgur.com/EPe38S4.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/EPe38S4.jpg)

[https://i.imgur.com/FMRCP3h.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/FMRCP3h.jpg)

I think I started by painting some Zulu Warriors in Goblin Green (a GW colour). They made nice Orks. Then I thought I'd paint some Conquistadores for the Empire and perhaps Romans for Elves, Vikings for Dwarfs etc. At some point I felt the historical models (well, _some_ of them) were so pretty they deserved a better fate, so I started painting them in more realistic colours. I still have boxes of the gorgeous 1/72 historical models from Zvezda. See these guys for instance:

Greek Infantry

[http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=335](http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=335)

Or the Samurai infantry:

[http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=448](http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=448)

Or the War Elephants:

[http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=349](http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=349)

Oh god. I am _never_ going to find the time to paint all of those minis... :(

</comment><comment><USER20> "Burn the Heretic! Kill the Mutant! Purge the Unclean!"

And I sit in my, partial empty, office and have to work - damn :(

<comment><USER7> "But I am already saved, for the machine is immortal. For even in death, I serve the Omnissiah."

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> I never really got into the miniature / battle side of Warhammer. It just doesn't appeal to me for some reason. Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, on the other hand, I greatly enjoyed. It's a fantastic world in which to create stories and it's also a heck of a lot cheaper. The mechanics are bit clunky compared to modern roleplaying systems, but it is easy to adapt modern systems to the setting if you so desire.

The battle game must be a much better product from the business point of view, due to the need to buy a lot more stuff to participate, and I imagine that is why it has continued whilst WFRP has mostly been sidelined.

Update: I see a new edition of WFRP has been published in the last few years. I played the first edition. I don't know what the other editions are like.

<comment><USER22> I thought the career / profession mechanics in WFRP were very clever. Never bought it myself, just coveted my friends' copies back in 1991 or something.

<comment><USER23> Character development in WFRP was so attractive coming from D&D, but dammit, gameplay was so deadly and lethal.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> [https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2020/03/04/primarch](https://www.penny- arcade.com/comic/2020/03/04/primarch)

<comment><USER25> Woah! Had no idea that PA is still around :) Two decades and still going strong!

<comment><USER26> Check out PAX and Child's Play if you haven't heard of them :)

[https://www.paxsite.com/](https://www.paxsite.com/)

[http://www.childsplaycharity.org/](http://www.childsplaycharity.org/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment> nappy-doo I would add that I recently started getting into Bolt Action, a WWII based miniatures game. It's got surprisingly clean rules, the lore is more realistic, there's even some movies about the lore, and it's way cheaper than any Games Workshop game.

As I'm new to the hobby, I'm a slow painter, but I can see why people do it.

<comment><USER27> That's cool to hear. I didn't even know there was lore. I bought the Bolt Action book but haven't cracked it yet. Operation: Whitebox and Osprey Black Ops are just ahead of it in the queue here.

I did recently test out One Hour Skirmish Wargames and One Hour Wargames, and discovered that I'm a major house-ruler. So where minis are concerned, I've been curious to try out that side of the hobby and see if I'm somehow better suited to kit bashing my own minis, which I would guess might be the equivalent there. Currently I use LO Draw and Inkscape for playing out games.

Oh and I've also been impressed by some of the Ogre minis I've seen...

Anyway, you got me excited. Fun stuff. :-)

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> Why the shame? Self-deprecation I hope. Because there should be no shame in having a productive and creative hobby.

I wish I had the patience to paint such tiny figures but whenever I've tried my hands start itching, I even feel itching behind my eyes, in my brain, and I just scream and throw things on the ground.

<comment><USER29> When I was at secondary school I was in a group that was big into warhammer. We spent more time war gaming than we did in higher education, but we never spoke about it at school! At that age it was hard to imagine any girls would even speak to us if they knew how dorky we were.

Part of our concealment of this extremely uncool hobby was the method we used to enter the games workshop stores, which we dubbed "the nonchalant walk". It involved walking "past" the shop entrance, pointedly not looking its way, then making an abrupt ninety-degree turn when we'd reached the shortest distance to it.

It must have looked very odd to anyone who did glimpse it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> Warning: it is a very expensive hobby to get into. With the complete lack of time I've had, I have a box pile of shame that I really should start working on...

<comment><USER31> If you want an expensive hobby, get into modular sythesizers! Other stuff is of course even more expensive, but this one's the worst I've personally ever dipped into. It's a bit like CCGs, only instead of booster packs you buy that fascinating cool new $300 module. Argh!

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> I have been working on making space to start painting minis again. The zenlike trance I was in for hours when modeling did wonders for my attention span.

The minis are expensive but I collected quite a bit over ebay.

40k Kill Team makes the game much more affordable too.

</comment><comment><USER33> Does anyone familiar with the community have other counterpoints or hypotheses about its friendliness? I can't help but feel that's the most important part of the article.

</comment><comment><USER34> I hate you all, cause I have less time then before and I am more tired then before. Now I have to cook the lunch instead of just going next door and I have to play teacher cause kids wont do homework by themselves.

And my team expects me to work normally (rightfully) so it is not slacking from home anymore then it was in the work.

</comment><comment><USER35> For me it's video games. I do have my music and drawing hobby to compete against it though.

</comment><comment><USER36> and I am re-playing Metal Gear Solid 2 for the nth time, a postmodern gem. Never ceases to amaze me.</comment>


Annotated version of Lebesgue's 1901 paper on the integral - <AUTHOR> http://fermatslibrary.com/s/on-a-generalization-of-the-definite-integral <comment><USER2> When Fermat's Library started I really eagerly signed up. There are some usability issues with the interface, but my main disappointment is with the annotations. I would be really interested not in crowdsourced annotations, but in annotations and context given by an expert in the field (or perhaps one of the authors if possible) trying to present the paper as a story to a lay/semi- technical audience.

</comment><comment><USER3> > Lebesgue's 1901 paper that changed the integral . . . forever

I though that Lebesgue "just" proved that the method scientists had been using for a while already was mathematically sound? Has it really changed the calculus landscape?

<comment><USER4> Lebesgue integrals differ in several key respects from Riemann integrals. Intuitively, Riemann integrals involve partitioning the domain of a function into disjoint intervals

(a_1,a_2), (a_2,a_3), ... (a_{n-1},a_n)

and approximately the area under the graph of the function via sums of the form

\sum_i f(x_i) (a_{i+1} - a_i)

where x_i is a point in the interval (a_i,a_{i+1}).

Lebesgue integrals turn this procedure on its head by partitioning the range of f into disjoint intervals

(a_0,a_1), (a_1, a_2), ... (a_{n-1},a_n)

and approximating the area under the graph of the function via

\sum_i m({x : a_i < f(x}) < a_{i+1}) a_i

where m(E) refers to the "measure" of the set E. That is, for each i, we multiply the "size of the set on which f is mapped to a value near a_i" by a_i and then sum over i.

The principle advantage of the Lebesgue scheme is that f can be very badly behaved and the quantities involved are still well-defined and make sense, whereas the Riemann integral only leads to reasonable approximations if f is somewhat well-behaved (more-or-less continuous). Otherwise, the value of f(x_i) (x_{i+1}-x_i) is not a reasonable approximation of the area under the graph of f "over the interval (x_{i+1}-x_i)".

There are even more general notions of integral. To my knowledge, most are based on observing that an integral is a linear functional on some space which should satisfy certain properties.

<comment><USER5> This is a nice summary, but I've always found the characterization of Riemann integrals as "partitioning the domain" and Lebesgue integrals as "partitioning the range" unsatisfying. This is mainly an artifice of the common constructions, but one can give definitions of the Riemann and Lebesgue integrals where the only difference is that, in several places, one must replace the word "finite" with the word "countable". Here is one such:

The definition of the length of an interval should be obvious. Let I be an interval, and let E be a subset of I. Define its Jordan outer measure to be the inf of the sums of the lengths of finite collections of intervals covering E. Define its Jordan inner measure to be the length of I minus the Jordan outer measure of I \setminus E. E is called Jordan measurable if its outer and inner Jordan measures are equal. A function s is Jordan simple if it is a linear combination of characteristic functions of Jordan measurable sets. Define the integral of Jordan simple functions in the obvious way. A bounded function on I is Riemann integrable if and only if it is the uniform limit of Jordan simple functions, and its Riemann integral is the limit of the integrals of the approximating simple functions.

If, in the previous paragraph, one replaces the word "finite" with the word "countable", and the names "Jordan" and "Riemann" with "Lebesgue", one recovers the Lebesgue integral.

<comment><USER4> You are just defining the class of Riemann integrable and Lebesgue integrable functions using Jordan measurability. There is nothing wrong in this, but there is nothing different in it either. It is equivalent to the standard limit of simple functions definitions.

<comment><USER5> I agree, I was just pointing out that it is possible to define both the Riemann and Lebesgue integrals by "partitioning the range". The real difference lies in the choice to allow countable rather than finite covers by intervals.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>