So you want your app/website to work in China - <AUTHOR> https://chanind.github.io/china/2019/01/19/launching-an-app-or-website-in-china.html <comment><USER2> My best best advices are not listed there

\- Stop using Google CDNs

\- Stop using Google fonts

\- Don't put Google Analytics in the header (or don't use it) otherwise will block/delay the browser load the website.

Most of the websites just timeout because of those 3 things and make the website imposible to navigate.

If you host your website in a normal VPS, without using Google services you will have a quite nice chance that the website loads pretty fast there in China.

edit: formatting

<comment><USER3> You can still use them, but a different URL. Google has a CDN in China for those fonts and stuff. Also Google Analytics are not blocked at all in China.

<comment><USER4> How about Recaptcha?

<comment><USER5> I'm thinking that generally it works but the other night during the nightly internet apocalypse I had to disable it all to use my own site.

Will have to double check...

<comment><USER5> yep, during the day you don't really notice cause VPNs work etc but once it gets to night, everything stops working

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I'm Chinese. It's not that bad.

* I've been hosting my Chinese blog in US vps since 2009 and it works fine.

* I have Gitea hosted in US vps and it works fine too.

* GoDaddy has Alipay (sort of China's PayPal) up for a long time.

* ICP Licenses are easy to get (at least for Chinese) and typically take less a month. I've done it for my company's websites and my clients' websites.

* ICP licenses are required only if you want to host your website in China. Hosting in China is ridiculously expensive and many Chinese go out of their way to host elsewhere. For 9$ a month you get 1 cpu, 1G ram and 1MBit bandwidth, which translates to 128kb/s.

To make your website load, and load fast in China:

* Remove Google fonts, Google cdn, resources from FB, twitter, etc. this should fix 95% of your problem.

* Avoid well-known host providers (AWS, Vultr, Linode) if you can, they tend to get banned.

* Get a host with CN2. I heard hosting in Hong Kong is fast too. It's only necessary if you really want your site to be lightning fast. As a Chinese, if I'm visiting your website and your website is in English, then I probably expect it to be slow, so...

<comment><USER7> > Hosting in China is ridiculously expensive and many Chinese go out of their > way to host elsewhere

If I host in Europe or US would the speed of traffic going into China be very slow?

If I get a 1Gbps server in EU most likely I can serve 1Gbps to USA. Will I be able to serve 1Gbps to China from that EU server?

> For 9$ a month you get 1 cpu, 1G ram and 1MBit bandwidth

That is insanely expensive. How can startups in China handle that kind of hosting cost? Where do they host their websites?

> Get a host with CN2

What's CN2? Where can I find their website?

<comment><USER8> Having used Alibaba Cloud for the past few years, and having been in China for the past month, I would say:

> If I host in Europe or US would the speed of traffic going into China be > very slow? ... Will I be able to serve 1Gbps to China from that EU server?

Not sure about 1Gbps, but I've seen my 200Mbps band basically saturated. It's rather spotty though -- definitely not 200Mbps all the time. Latency is a very big problem here, so make sure you do TCP tuning right; without TCP tuning you might see awful speeds.

> That is insanely expensive. How can startups in China handle that kind of > hosting cost? Where do they host their websites?

The insanely expensive part is bandwidth. For instance with Alibaba Cloud, a 1 vCPU, 1G RAM, 20G SSD instance with pay-as-you-go network billing is like $6/mo so it's not that bad, and there are promotions year round so if you're committed for say one year at a time you can usually get it for maybe half the list price, but outbound bandwidth is a whopping $0.123/GB (which is actually not that different from AWS/GCP's Asia pricing).

I don't know about startups but I suppose it's fine if you host static assets through a CDN and only use the expensive bandwidth from compute for truly dynamic content.

<comment><USER7> > so make sure you do TCP tuning right; without TCP tuning you might see awful > speeds.

Any suggestions on how to tune TCP for this situation?

> I suppose it's fine if you host static assets through a CDN and only use the > expensive bandwidth from compute for truly dynamic content.

Wouldn't the bandwidth cost of CDN be even higher than that of Alibaba Cloud?

<comment><USER8> > Any suggestions on how to tune TCP for this situation?

Roughly speaking, TCP throughput is window size / latency, and the default window size on Linux is usually pretty small, so for high latency connections (US to CN roundtrip is usually several hundred ms) the throughput would be bad. Increasing TCP buffer sizes goes a long way. In addition to buffer sizes, finer tuning is possible via other options/parameters; just find a guide online, there are plenty.

> Wouldn't the bandwidth cost of CDN be even higher than that of Alibaba > Cloud?

Hmm, shouldn't CDNs for static assets be cheaper than bandwidth associated with compute instances in general? For instance, Alibaba Cloud's CDN offering starts at $0.04/GB (in Mainland China) for the first 50TB, and gradually decreases from there.[1]

[1] [https://www.alibabacloud.com/product/cdn/pricing](https://www.alibabacloud.com/product/cdn/pricing)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Ive lived in mainland China most of last 12 years and work in software. The last paragraph is key one for most websites. You have to remove use of all G, FB and related site scripts because these will not run. There are good alternatives anyway so do yourself a favor and replace them with self-hosted or other 3rd party alternatives.

There are sites for testing what is blocked in China - you should test all 3rd party scripts you are using to make sure they run ok.

<comment><USER10> Just read the article again only to realize the late paragraph was not "Good luck! Please enable JavaScript to view the comments powered by Disqus." LOL

Anyway, before I had a stable proxy, I actually set up my local DNS to redirect all .google.com., .facebook.com. and their CDNs to 127.0.0.1 just so I can "unblock" some other webpages. That was not a good experience.

Those script can actually be delayed from loading so they won't block the page. You don't need to actually remove them, just load them AFTER your page is loaded, and then most things will be fine. (Except for Google Recaptcha of course)

It's a good practice to un-trust everything you don't have control, and maybe make exceptions from there. Don't by default trust everything.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I'm really confused.

I have a fairly international website geared towards English language learners, with Google Analytics and AdSense and links to share on Facebook, hosted on Digital Ocean here in NYC...

and, without designing for it, China has been my #1 source of traffic and revenue for many years now, simply because they're the #1 largest population of English language learners.

It seems to be working fine. I mean, maybe my share of Chinese traffic could be even bigger, but does anyone have any hard numbers showing this is a problem? Or are Chinese users aware of slow loads but just put up with it?

<comment><USER12> VPN usage is popular, even more so among the educated who might want to improve their English. That's who you're targeting anyways right?

<comment><USER13> Those who connect to their website through VPN will not show up with an IP inside China mainland.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Not that this is a recommended solution, but VPNs work from inside of China.

I lived with some Chinese students while I was exchanging and basically they said most people that want out of the Fire wall can just VPN out with no repercussions expected. Not that it's ideal, but some commenters seem to believe that people in China have no access to the outside world which just isn't true.

Before the internet the USSR could censor effectively, but now it's pretty hard with encryption being as good as it is.

Of course there are people in China that don't know that VPNs exist, but I think it's an important nuance to mention that many people are able to have an open online experience.

<comment><USER15> Didn't China ban VPN or at least started to issue fines to people who were caught using VPNs? Unless they backtracked on that..

<comment><USER16> Yes, that parent comment must be old information.

[https://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies- politics/article/21...](https://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies- politics/article/2109618/man-jailed-selling-vpns-evade-chinas-great-firewall)

[https://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies- politics/article/21...](https://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies- politics/article/2125326/man-jailed-51/2-years-fined-us76000-selling-vpn)

[https://www.scmp.com/tech/policy/article/2180960/chinese- vpn...](https://www.scmp.com/tech/policy/article/2180960/chinese-vpn-user- fined-accessing-overseas-websites-part-beijings-ongoing)

As well, I think the Chinese government has demonstrated multiple times during "sensitive times" in recent years that they can make commercial VPN services nonfunctional at the snap of a finger. If a commercial VPN service is working, it is because of the Chinese government's mercy, not because of the commercial VPN's technological ingenuity.

It leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I see commercial VPN providers advertising that they are the best or only VPN service to work in China. I remember one time I saw a viral Astrill ad floating around that said something to the effect: "We're happy that our VPN service is working great for our customers. But please don't post that your VPN service is working great. We work really hard to develop new technologies and get around the Chinese firewall, and if you keep bragging about it, the Chinese government could find out, it will make it harder for our services to work."

Super bad taste in my mouth. Come on, you know that the very first customers to download new clients are from the Chinese government working to figure out how to get it blocked. Hate this kind of disingenuous marketing.

edit: I will say that it is true that most commercial VPN services do seem to be used for most of the year and work well enough without consequences; the law seems to exist, but does not always get enforced. Would be interesting to see if China starts ratcheting up the fines over time.

<comment><USER17> Most, if not all of them, use fixed IP addresses which would be trivial to block regardless of what hip new crypto schemes they're running. Any customer can get the full server list too - worth it to a censor for $5.

The only real threat is something like Tor which is very aggressively and actively probed/blocked in China.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> It's really interesting how many HN users continuously engage in whataboutism and praise China every time any criticism of China comes up.

[https://arstechnica.com/information- technology/2016/06/red-a...](https://arstechnica.com/information- technology/2016/06/red-astroturf-chinese-government-makes-millions-of-fake- social-media-posts/)

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Water_Army](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Water_Army)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17103136](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17103136)

</comment><comment><USER19> I want the opposite. I want to block China and Russia and a few other countries that constantly try to hack my site.

<comment> matthew-wegner You can block whole countries with the free CloudFlare tier. (Or give them CAPTCHA style challenges)

<comment><USER20> Can you now? A while ago it's possible to block countries in the free tier, but it was a bug and they reverted.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> I traveled to China for about a month and a half a few years ago. Everything was excruciatingly slow. Except for Hacker News. Probably more about the payload size than anything else. :)

How many companies work hard to make their services readily available in China? Any notable exceptions?

<comment><USER22> Offtopic, but HN has always been a reliable check for me as to whether or not I have data service or it's just extremely slow as it always loads.

<comment><USER23> HN occasionally becomes very, very slow (30-second load times), but usually this is just if you're logged in and requesting templated content, as the front page is cached and loads instantly on a non-logged-in device. It does make a good connection test!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> My 2 cents running your app in China:

* make it as decoupled as possible from your core infra. What you spare on infra costs caused by redundancy, you will spend in maintenance time, outage mitigation, etc.

* no synchronous call going out of China mainland, otherwise you become dependent of the Great Firewall and that is not something you want

* expect lower quality of documentation and support

</comment><comment><USER25> "Sadly, it's not so simple. If your app/website servers aren't hosted from within China, then, for all intents and purposes, it's blocked. I mean, it will probably technically load, but will be excruciatingly, unusably slow. And sometimes it will just not load at all for hours at a time."

Is that really correct? And are there any sort of systematic measurements of that?

I seem to remember from my travels in China that accessing my websites hosted in Denmark was ok, certainly not stellar, but better than Australia.

(The rest of the advice: Don't use FB and Google - absolutely a good idea.)

</comment><comment><USER26> I host sqlalchemy.org on Linode, it has a google analytics loader on it, and I've had several complaints that the website cannot be loaded in many regions of China.

<comment><USER8> It's not GA which is not blocked in China; I think sqlalchemy.org itself somehow ended up on the GFW blocklist (beats me why that would happen).

I'm in China right now, and

        $ curl -v http://sqlalchemy.org/
        *   Trying 18.104.22.168...
        * TCP_NODELAY set

Then it just hangs. Meanwhile, my sites hosted in the same Linode datacenter (Newark, NJ) work fine.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> Honestly, I wouldn't make it available in China. I want to give them a reason to take that firewall down. I don't want to make the prison that their government has turned their country into, a sustainable one.

<comment><USER28> If you block Chinese people from viewing your website, you're only hurting Chinese people. The government doesn't give a shit about your website or your users.

The internet is a place that can exist without borders, there's no reason for us to voluntarily erect any.

<comment><USER29> The government is ultimately at the mercy of its people. If they can't access the things they want, then that will add to their issues with the government.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> I really want the opposite, I want Google Cloud to stop billing me for Chinese users I don't have. Apparently the technology to bill me extra for Chinese bandwidth is not available for making firewall rules.

</comment><comment><USER31> I remain completely disgusted and confused why websites hosted on AWS S3 (in BJ) by fully registered firms with valid ICPs are still banned. I have to use 10x the computing power that I need and I could load additional tools in its place. That and the lack of AWS Amplify being offered really crushes innovation here. (Shanghai based entrepreneur)

</comment><comment><USER32> Has anyone registered an AWS China account without a Chinese company?

The application process requires you to select a Chinese city/postcode.

<comment><USER17> China - opening to the world. At least that's what they say...

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> if there is anything remotely dynamic in your app go with option 2.

i've mainland proxied and cached the hell out of everything i can, warm the caches daily, but once the user starts interacting (eg search) then hitting our servers really bites randomly. usually not so bad for honkers server, but even that route can randomly drop off the face of the planet.

<comment><USER33> hmm, option 3 looks interesting. i would need to test it to have confidence in it (especially over problematic periods like golden week), but having your server in honkers is a big plus over the other side.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> Does just having links on a page (e.g. Google Maps link or FB profile) cause slow page load?

<comment><USER35> If you're loading them asynchronously, no.

<comment><USER34> On this page[1] it says that even links (e.g. Google Play links) might cause slow page load time.

      [1] https://crossborder.digital/how-to-test-your-page-loading-speed-in-china/

<comment><USER36> It sounds like the person writing this article was forced to mention a "unique feature" for each website and they basically just wrote the same thing worded differently for the first three.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> Any suggestions of services that help a company obtain the ICP License?

<comment><USER38> You need a local company entity in China, I don't think they allow it to be offered as a service. They want to know how to get in touch with you in person.

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> Is there a service where you can test the performance of your web site from within China?

Edit: Google knows [https://geekflare.com/test-website-load-time-from- china/](https://geekflare.com/test-website-load-time-from-china/)

</comment><comment><USER40> Can I use a separate ip address for requests from china somehow?

</comment><comment><USER41> I don't want to live in a world where the next superpower blocks websites as they suit them, suppress freedom of speech and journalism, exploit prisoners, religious segregation camps, employing social dystopian systems and is led by unimpeachable, unchallenged leader who has elected himself with a 1000-0 vote as perpetual president of the country.

It is sad to see that the rest of the world has to bend down to serve this repressive state. I've been to China and the people there are the same as us - I despise the party, not the people. The next generation that grows up there will not have the perspective of what it means to live in a free democratic country.

<comment><USER42> the internet will become impossible to censor (for everyone - it's already easy for the rich to avoid censorship) when satellite connections become cheaper / faster / more accessible

<comment><USER43> the problem isn't tech - its people.

<comment><USER42> what do you mean?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> of course my websites work in china. i get hitup dailey by suppliers.

</comment><comment><USER45> Yeah no thanks.

</comment><comment><USER46> Why bother? There's no internet in China anyway, whatever hacks you are going to use, the result will be completely random at best and your website working or not there is just a matter of luck.

Even the big IT companies can't make it work so why would you?

<comment><USER47> > There's no internet in China anyway

More than 40% of the world's e-commerce transactions currently take place in China. The United States' share of the market is 24%, down from 35% in 2005.

<comment><USER46> Yes, on their local Intranet.

<comment><USER48> > 40% of the world's e-commerce transactions currently take place in China

> on their local Intranet

As if AliExpress.com is non-exist outside China?

Many non-China websites are blocked in China.

Yet Chinese websites serves globally.

Think about it.

<comment><USER49> So it's an extranet then.

<comment><USER48> It's an Intranet for Chinese users, and western Webmasters.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Supersonic plasma jets discovered - <AUTHOR> http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Observing_the_Earth/Swarm/Supersonic_plasma_jets_discovered <comment><USER2> Something I somehow missed in school and only found out recently is that temperatures in the upper atmosphere are super high. The thermosphere is often reported as going up to ~2k degrees Celsius. (And you wouldn't even know it if you were there, due to the low density.)

I'm curious what supersonic means in this case - what is the speed of these plasma jets; what is supersonic speed in the ionosphere?

<comment><USER3> Wow, I completely forgot the ranges of different atmosphere regions since I was in secondary school.

This picture here makes me wonder:

[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Earth%27...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Earth%27s_atmosphere.svg)

Did any spacecraft manage to fly _through_ an aurora? Wouldn't it be cool if someone did that and shoot photos from within?

<comment><USER2> Check this out [https://www.nasa.gov/content/flying-through-an- aurora](https://www.nasa.gov/content/flying-through-an-aurora)

Also google image search for "space shuttle aurora"... spectacular pictures!

<comment><USER4> Ah, good point, I forgot that the ISS effectively passes through that region anyway.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> T-minus 10 minutes until Musk explains there is a way to easily harness the electrical energy from these jets, and it'll only take Tesla a year to do it.

<comment><USER6> Tesla probably already did it in a year - too bad his notebooks were 'lost' ...

<comment><USER7> Is there a history behind this quote? Would love to hear it.

<comment><USER8> Nikola Tesla was supposedly working on the production and wireless transmission of power -- including a "death beam". After his death, many of his papers were claimed to be missing:

[http://www.pbs.org/tesla/ll/ll_mispapers.html](http://www.pbs.org/tesla/ll/ll_mispapers.html)

Interestingly, one of the main investigators into the incident was Dr. John G. Trump (uncle of President Trump).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> so here's our space elevator, nature already created it for us.

problem it only takes us up from the 2nd floor.

<comment><USER10> And to get any lift you have to disintegrate into molecules first.

<comment><USER9> you don't have to be in the epicenter.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> So what's the best way to harvest this energy?

</comment><comment><USER12> Anyone else who clicked on the link and expected airplanes?

<comment><USER13> Yeah I kind of thought that, but "discovered" gave pause to that thought, since it's not "invented."</comment></comment>


216 tiny spherical magnets == billions of topological possibilities == one cool toy - <AUTHOR> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvk97oK1M_k

<comment><USER2> Very nice! But the site is down.

Speaking of "billions of topological possibilities", where is the Mobius band?!</comment>


Russ Cox puts images into QR codes. Here's how - <AUTHOR> https://plus.google.com/116810148281701144465/posts/htgyJ4pMhna

<comment><USER2> This is a dupe of <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3833850>, except this points to a useless G+ page rather than to the guy's actual article.

</comment><comment><USER3> Link to the guy's actual page: <http://research.swtch.com/qart>

Really cool stuff!

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> duckduckgo's Gabriel Weinberg isn't missing the beat: <https://twitter.com/#!/duckduckgo/status/191926962120425473>

</comment><comment><USER4> Nice work reusing the ECC data in QR codes to hold the image, unfortunately it is still a bit noisy due to the limits of Reed-Solomon.

I use a similar technique (just the center part, though) on <http://www.qrpixel.com> .

</comment><comment><USER2> If you're going to do this, I would suggest configuring your webserver to redirect the hashed URL to the canonical one. That will make it less likely for people to bookmark and pass around the URL with the big hash, which is there just to generate the picture.

<comment><USER5> I'm fairly sure that the hash never actually makes it to the server side [1]. Of course, you could just use a querystring param instead.

[1] <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2396#section-4>

<comment><USER2> Oops, you're right, the server never sees that.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Sounds like I just found what I'm putting on my next business card!

</comment><comment><USER7> Unfortunately this only works if you put very little data into the QR code, e.g. only an URL

Then the question is: Does it actually make sense to use an QR code for that alone?

(for a visualization of that see: [http://www.mobileinc.co.uk/2012/01/which- one-of-these-billbo...](http://www.mobileinc.co.uk/2012/01/which-one-of-these- billboards-would-be-better-understood-by-the-average-consumer/) )

If you want to try it out yourself the best QR code online tool I know is QRHacker.com

<comment><AUTHOR> _Does it actually make sense to use an QR code for that alone?_

for me a QR code is a bookmarking tool. I am at a restaurant with friends, I like the place and want to keep a note. What's cooler / more practical: (a) take out a blocknotes, a pencil, and write stuff (b) put the 10434th business card in my wallet, which by now looks like a watermelon and I can barely put it in my pocket (c) take my smartphone and "delicious" the URL encoded in the QR code.

I believe they have a reason to be.

<comment><USER7> What I meant was that if its only a short URL then it might be quicker to type it in vs scanning the QR code - have a look at the example link then I guess you know why.

If you put more info into the code then certainly scanning is the better way but then you're limited with what graphics you can apply to the code.

<comment><USER8> I hear you, but if there is an industry trend of showing QR codes instead of urls, then so be it. No reason to do things two ways. Or at least, you might as well put the QR code in _addition_ to the text URL if that is what consumers expect.

However, I do feel that the QR code really is overkill for encoding a URL. At some point, couldn't we just standardize on some easily OCR'd font in a some sort of graphical frame and have software recognize/parse that?</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: is there an alternative for instagram? - <AUTHOR>

something like ownCloud hosted on my own server, but not just a gallery-skript, but connected with an app to share photos easy from my phone? What features should such a solution need? <comment><AUTHOR> As I understand openphoto you still have to store your private photos on public cloud-services? But if I have my own server I like to store them there. I feel better if I control who can access my photos.

</comment><comment><USER2> You can try OpenPhoto (<https://openphoto.me/>)</comment>


Elm at Pacific Health Dynamics - <AUTHOR> https://mordrax.gitbooks.io/elm-at-phd/content/ <comment><USER2> I never enjoyed frontend programming until I came across Elm. Not only that Elm turned out to be a gateway drug to Haskell. Now I write frontend and mobile apps in Haskell using Functional Reactive programming (FRP).

<comment><USER3> Yeah, we've had a great time writing Elm for a fairly complex single-page Ethereum dApp. It's conceptually a lot simpler than Haskell, which made it easy for the team to pick up. I only wish it had a better system (Tasks) for JavaScript interop instead of ports.

<comment><USER4> ReasonML could be a good middle ground there.

<comment><USER5> One of the biggest complaints of Elm is the lack of typeclass. I'm not aware of a similar abstraction in OCaml. Does Reason have similar limitations, or are there ways to get around it?

<comment><USER6> Noon question: what is a typeclass in the sense of the feature Elm lacks?

Does it mean the equivalent to `class` keyword in the OO sense?

<comment><USER7> From an OO perspective, Elm lacks interfaces. Typeclasses are probably the best way to handle the idea of interfaces in the functional programming model.

Since functions are first class, you can bodge this with an object that has functions in it, but since those don't serialize they don't play well with a lot of Elm idioms if you put them in your model.

<comment> a-saleh I thought about this, and kinda came to a conclusion, than I would take a language that has generics, and doesn't have interfaces (i.e. Elm) over a language that has interfaces and doesn't have generics (i.e. Go)

<comment><USER8> typescript has both :D

<comment> a-saleh Well, in my professional life, there is a lot of untyped Python on the horizon :P

And for side-projects I think I prefer PureScript anyway?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> The lead paragraph is a bit worrying.

> Since July 2017, I've been leading the frontend rewrite of their flagship > product. The codebase was at 16k LoC when I started. Since then, I've > rewritten the various subsystems at least once (I'm looking at you generic > form component). Now we hover around 45k LoC with most of the common SPA > structures stabilizing. We are about a third of the way to completion.

I don't know if it's common for rewrites to triple the amount of code while being only 1/3rd complete, but it certainly doesn't feel like "these are the facts I should lead with."

Edit: I read more of the prologue, and it turns out that the initial 16kloc application was not complete.

<comment><AUTHOR> Correct, the initial 16k LoC was not complete. In fact ( no metrics ), I deleted large portions of redundant files/code and at one stage we were back at about 11k LoC.

The comment about 16k -> 45k LoC was to give an idea of how much we had added to the product over the last 10 months.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> A bit of a side-track, but I feel like I'm in a weird waiting phase with Pure FP JS.

With Elm, I don't really feel like introducing it to my team before 0.19 hits, because it "feels" like it's around the corner, but it has felt like that for a while.

With Haskell, I'm not entirely happy with GHCJS and the tooling surrounding it. I'm dreaming of the WebGHC[0]/WASM being nicer, if it ever gets done.

I don't exactly know what keeps me off PureScript, perhaps that most frameworks just seem to compile to React, and that the community still hasn't settled on one (at least it seems so from the outside).

Honestly, Miso[1] is the one I feel the most optimistic about atm.

[0] [https://github.com/WebGHC](https://github.com/WebGHC)

[1] [https://haskell-miso.org](https://haskell-miso.org)

<comment><USER4> You might check out ReasonML. There is even a blessed ReasonReact

<comment><USER11> ReasonML isn't pure FP.

<comment><USER12> Purity is not an end unto itself.

<comment><USER10> Immutability and purity by default goes a long way to remove a lot of headaches. I could settle for immutability, but it seems ReasonML mixes things a bit.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> All the ML inspired languages seem to fall over on compile time. This post is a good example, where it describes design choices driven specifically by compile time, which is not a dimension I usually want interacting with the way I structure my code. I love the rest of the story (full disclosure: I have years of experience with Scala and Swift, which are no better) but until sufficiently advanced compilers arrive these languages are going to continue to be a hard sell for a substantial group of developers.

<comment><AUTHOR> > where it describes design choices driven specifically by compile time

I'd like to point out two things here:

1\. There are common library functions that we put in single files. These are imported by a lot of other files. The fact that these incur a large recompile cost is unfortunate and I think it doesn't have to be this way if dependencies were calculated at a more granular level.

2\. The far larger implication to compile time becoming exponential is coupling of concerns. This is solely in the developer's responsibility. For a type system that guarantees correctness of code, there is no way around the fact that all affected modules must recompile. eg, if a fundamental law of physics were to change, the whole universe would have to recompute.

So I think for a 'substantial group of developers', the focus should be on helping people to recognise what is coupling and how to design de-coupled systems.

<comment><USER14> Beyond separate compilation, incremental compilation can go a far way here in minimizing what has to be recompiled on a change. You can even be incremental at tree level for really aggressive change latency reductions (though batch becomes lower because of memoization overhead, not to mention memory consumption concerns).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I also shared my elm experience a few days ago:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16750842](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16750842)

<comment><AUTHOR> That was also a good read, thanks for sharing it!

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> I've only used Elm for a hobby project. Given how much I enjoyed the experience of web app programming for once, it's nice to read how well it scales to a large application.

<comment><AUTHOR> It definitely scales. There is an 'adjustment period' where I went from a nested to a flat, decoupled architecture. But as most things are one to two levels deep (state), complexity also grows fairly linearly. This is really great from a developer's pov when trying to grapple with how to add new features.

<comment><USER17> This is also my experience in both elm and (type|Java)script/react/redux apps as well: flat decoupled architectures seem to scale better in terms of development/maintenance in addition to reducing (bad) churn. If styling is properly handled, feature progression is also linear-ish.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Thanks for writing this. It's encouraging to read about others' experiences using Elm in production. After a couple small side projects in Elm, I'm finally using it in a few low-risk areas at work.

</comment><comment><USER19> Serious question: What's the _business value_ case for _not_ using Elm?

<comment><USER20> It's also possible that you can move faster with a dynamically type checked language.

I would be of the opinion that it is faster because if static compilation was a free lunch there would be no question

<comment><USER21> If static compilation was a free lunch AND people were rational, which they are not, there would be no question.

I definitely move faster in decent statically typed languages, but I did invest time in learning.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Thanks for warning about compile times.

<comment><AUTHOR> It's definitely an issue for larger, coupled projects in 0.18 but don't let it scare you. The trick is to decouple your modules by focusing them on a single responsibility. Then the compile time is a non-issue.

<comment><USER22> The fact I have to do that shouldn't be necessary. I've been scarred by too many long compile time projects to know eventually entropy takes over despite the best of optimization efforts.

The fixes need to be in the compiler & dev tools itself, or it needs to be a very obscure feature or obviously surfaced build time problem highlighted by the compiler.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> that's a good read. can anyone point me to similar stories but for clojurescript ??

</comment><comment><USER24> Took me a while to realize this wasn't about the Elm email client [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elm_(email_client)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elm_\(email_client\))

<comment><USER25> I'm curious how you interpreted the very first sentence on the page:

> the technical trials and tribulations he faced, the euphoric and … not so > euphoric bits of writing a SPA in Elm

What trials and tribulations did you picture that came with writing a single page application in an email client?

<comment><USER24> Honestly, it took digging through multiple pages to figure out what (this) Elm was about. If you come in with a preconceived notion of what something is supposed to be about, and there is nothing which even gives a short blurb on project goals, it can be a little bewildering. Clearly it wasn't about the email client (that was a bit tongue-in-cheek), but I was curious about what the project actually was for, and had to really hunt to find any information.

<comment><USER26> It's interesting how everyone thinks they're the first person to make the joke.

Not much different than going "haha, I thought it was about the Elm tree for a while!"

I'm starting to think it's just a way to signal to others that you know of an email client that last had a stable release 12 years ago that most people haven't heard of. Maybe there should be a way to wear this badge of honor in your profile instead of making the same joke, though.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Tell HN:  My theory explaining the Fermi paradox - <AUTHOR>

The Fermi paradox is the apparent contradiction between high estimates of the probability of the existence of extraterrestrial civilization and humanity's lack of contact with, or evidence for, such civilizations.
One common explanation is that all advanced civilizations develop nuclear capability at some point, and shortly thereafter wipe themselves out.
Here is my theory:  Future technology and understanding is so unpredictable.  I feel it is more likely that we will discover different dimensions of reality.  Perhaps advanced civilizations don't even communicate in "our reality".
There are unpredictable phase shifts that happen in all complex systems, there's just no way for us to predict what advanced civilizations will look like, or how they communicate.  Look at what's happening with the internet, and how that has changed our social interactions just in the past 10 years.  Some people don't even leave their house anymore, they're literally living online.
Anyway, that's my theory.  What's yours? <comment><USER2> Unfortunately this theory falls under the category of 'Not even wrong.' Not because it is inaccurate, but because it proposes something which is untestable. Specifically the assertion that the future is unpredictable. The only way to falsify that statement is to make an accurate prediction about X time in the future. This is then very difficult to replicate because there is no clear transition from 'making _a_ prediction' to making the specific prediction you care about.

<comment><USER3> > Specifically the assertion that the future is unpredictable. The only way to > falsify that statement is to make an accurate prediction about X time in the > future.

And even that wouldn't do as scientific evidence -- because one data point is insufficient for science, and also that a single chance guess might turn out to be right.

> Unfortunately this theory falls under the category of 'Not even wrong.'

Complete agreement.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> My favourite is "The Transcension Hypothesis" <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQOyJUDTKdM>

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for this link. This is very close to what I was thinking - didn't realize there was a name for it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I like the answer that says, they DO exist and they DO know about us. They just haven't had enough time to get here yet</comment>


Ask HN: Founder comp in dividends? - <AUTHOR> We just raised pre-seed via a convertible note. Two founders are the only shareholders, and we want to pay ourselves a small amount.
We can save overhead and get better tax treatment if we issue dividends instead of taking a salary via payroll. Any reason not to do this?
Not seeking legal advice - we will talk to our lawyer. Question is whether this is discouraged in the HN community for any reason, i.e. would complicate future fundraising. <comment><USER2> Hmm, I can't think of a specific reason against this. Most established companies don't pay themselves in salary but rather in stock options.

For dividends, it will be taxed as short-term income. So you will still need to pay federal and local income taxes on it (unless you live in like Florida or NH or Texas or etc).

You also won't be contributing anything so Social Security and Medicare, so you will save money here, but you will also affect your eligibility for these programs (if you care about those benefits by the time you are in your 60s, if those benefits exist, etc).

As far as fund-raising, profitability measurements would appear exactly the same (in my estimation). I doubt an investor would care, and would probably applaud the tax efficient use of money.

</comment><comment><USER3> Banks ignore dividends you get from a closely held company (more or less) without at least 24 months of proof of income. So all else being equal, take salary. Your first two years of "dividends" mean nothing if you want a loan / mortgage from the bank.

It would be against the company and personally guaranteed if you were to get a corporate loan (back to checking your personal income again) _at best_ , at worst it'd be a personal loan and their sole criteria would be your salary (ie. $0). Otherwise, dividends usually have (slightly) better tax treatment.

Make sure you have enough share classes that you can each take dividends in different amounts/times, and separate from any investors you bring on, etc. Otherwise future investors might not have flexibility they want.

So classes for: employees, a control class and a dividend / economic benefit class for _each_ co-founder, and a control / economic benefit class for investors. Usually 7+ classes.

If you are certain you don't want a line of credit / mortgage or any other kind of favourable treatment from banks (or don't need it because you have lots of other assets to secure it with) then do dividends because of the tax treatment.

If you want the bank to think you exist economically during the first 24 months and are willing to take a (typically very small) tax haircut, salary. Doesn't necessarily apply in all countries / banks, but definitely North America.

The reason fancy people like Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerburg don't take salaries (or at least, the self-interested one) is that banks will lend against their shares at that level, so paying the extra tax on a salary is pointless and they don't need the cash so it's really just a share value slush fund at that point. They don't need a mortgage / credit card and if they did it would not be the same question.

The big leverage comes from taking a dividend from one company, and rolling it into another company in the same year. Depending on the nature of the companies and how you account for it, you can sometimes avoid tax entirely.

</comment><comment><USER4> It's very unusual. Founder compensation is not the place to innovate -- innovate on the product, and pay yourself minimum wage with a W-2.

See [http://thestartuplawblog.com/startup-compensation- founders-d...](http://thestartuplawblog.com/startup-compensation-founders- dont-forget-to-pay-yourselves-and-others/)

</comment><comment><USER5> It depends on the country.

Dividends come from after tax profits and are sometimes taxed as regular income and there might be tax on distribution too.

In some countries, you must pay yourself a fair salary.

I've also heard Mark Zuckerberg pays himself $1 salary.</comment>


Ask HN: How do you split your SaaS features into plans? - <AUTHOR> 	I'm doing a side project which purpose is to experiment if I can build a SaaS product and maybe earn some dollars. The app is a web-based REST api monitoring/tester tool, and I've been struggling with splitting features into packages that actually makes sense. The core features are like having API calls defined with parameters and assertions as cases, and then you can run them in every 1/5/15/60 minutes and get a report in email/slack if something went wrong. I have no experience on what works in real life so I'd appreciate any feedback from similar people who has done A/B testing or has any experience regarding this. My current idea is:
- Basic: max 1 user / max 5 case / 60 mins frequency
- Startup: max 5 users / max 100 case/ 5 minutes frequency
- Enterprise: unlimited users / unlimited case / 1 minutes frequency
And the main selling point for the most expensive plan would be an ability to run collections through an API so that it can be wired into CI build.
Any thougths? Thanks! <comment><USER2> IMO: For something B2B like this, plans are a way to segment your customers. Your solution might not be worth much to someone's side project, while it might be replacing an entire employee's worth of work for a larger company, saving them thousands of dollars a month.

You might want your basic plan to do everything a solo developer or hobbyist needs, your middle plan to do everything a small shop or agency needs, and your top plan to do everything a household brand needs for example. Then price accordingly to the greater value and ability to pay each group has.

Come up with the plans and price them according to that mindset. If the main thing that differentiates your customers is the number of users, or number of servers they run, or how many API calls they process, or what level of support they need... that's the metric you want to find and use to set your pricing. Not necessarily the technical parameters of your product. Maybe that "wiring into a CI" is the only thing that differentiates your customers, and you only need two plans.

Decide on something and put it up. You can always change your pricing later (painlessly if you grandfather existing accounts) as you learn more from actual customers.

</comment><comment><USER3> Few thoughts:

1\. Add a fourth plan, call it "enterprise" (call your third plan Business or something), and add unlimited phone support as a differentiator. Don't put a price on it, say "call us".

2\. Your basic plans seems fairly useless to anyone, no API has only 5 assertions to test.

3\. How are you planning to price this? I would suggest 5$/mo, 79$/mo, $399/mo and call us</comment>


World's Top 26 Billionaires Now Own as Much as the Poorest 3.8B - <AUTHOR> http://time.com/5508393/global-wealth-inequality-widens-oxfam/ <comment><USER2> More discussion here:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18958478](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18958478)

</comment><comment><USER3> What I'd like to see more in these articles is an acknowledgement of how power laws work (or perhaps log-normal distributions or stretched exponential distributions [https://arxiv.org/abs/1304.0212](https://arxiv.org/abs/1304.0212)).

</comment><comment><USER4> Is this one of those things where the vast majority of the 3.8B has a zero or negative net worth?

I'm not trying to deny anything about wealth inequality, but I wonder what this clickbaity statement really says about anything.

<comment><USER5> > _Is this one of those things where the vast majority of the 3.8B has a zero > or negative net worth?_

How does that make it better? If anything, it makes it worse...

<comment><USER6> That would me that you alone has more money than the poorest 3.8B people, making it somewhat clickbaity to bring up the billionaires?

<comment><USER7> It says the top 26 billionaires own _as much as_ the poorest 3.8B, not that they own more.

Unless you're worth more than the top 26 billionaires combined, you don't have the net worth to match 3.8B people.

<comment><USER8> Sure, but if 2B of that population is in the negative, then even at minimum wage I do have the net worth to match 2B; its just the next 1.8B where comparison even starts to make sense.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I don't think Forbes Billionaires List is not accurate enough to track wealth changes from year to year as Oxfam does. It can show some trends over several years at best.

[https://oxfamilibrary.openrepository.com/bitstream/handle/10...](https://oxfamilibrary.openrepository.com/bitstream/handle/10546/620599/tb- public-good-or-private-wealth-methodology-note-210119-en.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER10> I think this happens because of technological development creating and enhancing positive feedback loops due to specialization and economy of scale. Can we have similar levels of technological development without such super concentration of wealth?

<comment><USER11> Technology doesn't even need to factor into it.

Wealth creates wealth, regardless of the available gadgets. We are now at a stage where the wealthy have used their wealth to accumulate more and more wealth. And as we speak, they are using that wealth to get more and more and more.

That's the feedback loop.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> The most important thing for non wealthy is organization. Sharing issues and knowledge. Instead of relying on the rich to give them solutions (no incentives to do so..)

<comment><USER13> That being one of the hopes, decades back, for the internet.

<comment><USER12> Unfortunately most of the web has become a business rarely aligned with human needs or happiness.

Still a bit of the tech can be used but it's not enough per se.

<comment><USER13> I wonder if something could be worked out with a truly decentralized, mesh network based on personal equipment.

<comment><USER12> some neighborhoods in the US have tried local internet providers, worth looking into

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I guess I'm too cynical to believe that any attempt to go after those 26 people will land on them rather than on me - I'm comparatively well off but much less able to defend myself than a Donald Trump or a Bill Gates.

</comment><comment><USER15> 70% tax rate above $10M makes a lot of sense.

<comment><USER11> The marginal tax rate might help the American poor, but for the rest of the world, where the majority of poor people are, this, on its own, isn't really going to do much good.

<comment><USER15> It lowers the incentive to develop such wildly unequal compensation packages

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Some may find this reprehensible, some may not (about 26 people at last count). Regardless, this represents a gargantuan opportunity for startups.

<comment><USER17> What, creating things the 26 may want to spend on? Or trying to squeeze out some profit from 3.8 billion poor?</comment></comment>


Grubhub admits to adding restaurants without their permission - <AUTHOR> https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/article/SF-restaurant-Kin-Khao-doesn-t-offer-delivery-15005797.php <comment><USER2> This is fraud. If I order food from one restaurant you can't substitute that with food from somewhere else. This is doubly true for food from a fancy place.

These delivery companies are flaunting the law as a matter of policy. Every month there is another article calling them out, and nothing changes, so I can't imagine that this is a one off. "Uber did it and so the end justifies the means" is what I hear from people working there.

</comment><comment><USER3> Between this, the use of "virtual kitchens" to cook the food instead of it actually being done in the restaurant, and the various nonsense things around tips, it's time for me to stop using these services entirely.</comment>


Bottled Water Vs. Tap Water - <AUTHOR> http://www.rd.com/special-reports/the-environment/rethink-what-you-drink/article.html <comment><USER2> From the article: Most people are surprised to learn that they're drinking glorified tap water, but bottlers aren't required to list the source on the label.

Coca-Cola trid launching Dasani in the UK but it failed mostly because newspapers likened it to an episode in a British comedy ( <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3809539.stm> ).</comment>


Nintendo re-releases NES as mini console - <AUTHOR> http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/07/nintendo_entertainment_system_nes_classic_edition_coming_this_november_ships_with_30_games <comment><USER3> HDMI out? I wonder if they're going to simulate NTSC TV artifacts such as colour bleed and dot crawl. These artifacts are important for correctly rendering NES games according to their original design [0].

[0] [http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/KylePittman/20150420/241442/C...](http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/KylePittman/20150420/241442/CRT_Simulation_in_Super_Win_the_Game.php)

<comment><USER4> Slight rant, but I wish these CRT simulators could simulate decent CRTs, they always seem to emulate really shit ones with huge curvature and really exaggerated scanlines etc, can't they emulate a nice Trinitron TV or something. They always just look fake to me.

(Yeah, I know there is possibly a bit of memory cheating, plus I used RGB SCART for the later period of CRT use that avoided the composite problems).

<comment><USER5> The ones I've seen included with MAME (or maybe it was a MAME front end) are pretty easy to configure to get the look of a nice CRT display. Maybe because of the focus on emulating high-end arcade hardware instead of the sort of television set that the typical NES was plugged into.

<comment><USER6> Shovel Knight is the only game that actually gets down and does CRT emulation correctly is this one: [http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/KylePittman/20150420/241442/C...](http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/KylePittman/20150420/241442/CRT_Simulation_in_Super_Win_the_Game.php)

<comment><USER7> That article has a huge misunderstanding when it comes to ghosting. In normal CRT TVs or monitors you could not see the previous frame at all.

<comment><USER8> The whole frame, no. But due to the persistence of phosphors, any pixel which weren't re-excited in a replacement frame would have some amount of "ghosting" while the phosphors "cool down" from the previous frame. The effect is more pronounced on black backgrounds, and nonexistent on white backgrounds, with other colors being heavily dependent on the contents of previous frames. Higher-quality CRTs also tended to have less persistence (my VT 520, for example, has virtually no visible persistence).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I'm really interested in the architecture of this thing. I'm guessing ARM running a NES emulator (rather than ports of the games), since they've got such great experience doing that on the 3DS.

If it's hackable, this would be a fantastic gadget. As a project box alone, it looks really pretty. HDMI out, USB power, and controller inputs make it really appealing. Depending on headers and connectivity inside, hacking a USB port or SD slot for expansion would be a fun project.

There are already Wii controller accessory to USB adapters available. And at $9.99 for the controllers, those could be fun too (to be used separately on other platforms, like the RPi).

That's not to say I won't be getting one purely to play as intended, but I would be interested in picking one up to hack.

<comment><USER10> 15 years ago at a dodgy trade show booth in Vegas, I bought a $25 Nintendo clone controller that had been retrofitted to contain the guts needed to play a few dozen classic NES games that were pre-loaded.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't emulation, but actual miniaturized Nintendo-clone hardware running the original (pirated) ROMs. I have a hunch this isn't emulating, but is instead playing "on the metal." The hardware (as the article mentions) is easy to clone, and as such should be insanely cheap to produce in volume.

The profit margins on these consoles is going to be great.

<comment><USER11> Eh, these things are hit and miss. I have one of those $20 clones that accepts the original cartridges. Performance is pretty bad; the sound is miserable.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I'm amazed at the ridiculous pricing for these games. On Wii U, all of these classic games would cost $5 _each_. $60 for a physical device and 30 games is extremely generous by Nintendo standards.

Edit: if only it had River City Ransom...

<comment><USER13> Weird. I thought it was ridiculously high. But I also think $5 per game is crazy high. Especially considering how easy/cheap it is to make something like a retro-pi

<comment><USER12> Maybe digital-as-the-status-quo has made me think that creating physical items is so extraordinary that they command a premium price. I'm not even one of those people who cares about owning a physical copy of a game (in the sense of how Kickstarter projects will promise physical media as a stretch goal). And apparently, Nintendo has made a killing with their Amiibo toys, which is even more bizarre to me than the recent Pokemon Go craze.

But a cute little Nintendo replica? I would never buy one just as a nostalgic paperweight. But if it plays games, even if it may not have much expandability or interoperability with Internet systems? That's very appealing to the kid in me, even though my Wii U has been collecting dust for the past year now.

<comment><USER13> I didn't even think about the actual physical cost to create one of these. I was just thinking that it's mostly IP.

When I order something off Kickstarter, I don't care at all about physical copies, because I just won't use them. If I get a book/comic/etc that's not readable on my tablet, I just won't end up reading it. It's not that I'm against physical media, but it's so convenient for me to go digital that I just won't end up using physical

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> It seems to be missing some critical features of the original.

\- Can't start a game and have the game loading screen distorted until the 7-8th attempt.

\- Can't blow in the cartridge until it whistles before playing

\- Can't stick 2 games in on top of each other

Getting the game to work was half of the fun.

<comment><USER15> you do realize blowing on the cartridge works just as good as not walking under the ladder and avoiding black cats? As a matter of a fact it contributes to connector oxidation (moisture in your breath).

<comment><USER16> I was under the impression that blowing into it caused some moisture to get there and improve the .. conduction?

<comment><USER17> It improves surface contact. That it works isn't a myth at all. Many people mistakenly put the blame on dust, thinking that blowing on it remove the dust which made it work.

It's not great for it in the long term, though, but hardly as damaging as much of the smug internet would want people to believe.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I own an NES and quite a few games but this seems like an instabuy for me. Solid list of games. Metroid, Castlevania 1+2 and both Zeldas. Tecomo, the Mario games, and Ghost 'n' Goblins to keep you frustrated. Pretty cool actually that they chose to go with the small form factor.

<comment><USER19> It's almost as if they priced it so every 35-ish year old in the USA would buy one instantly. I know I'm in that camp.

<comment><USER20> 27 here and that would be an insta buy for me if only I owned a TV :(

<comment><USER21> Yeah, too bad your MacBook Pro doesn't allow HDMI in.

<comment><USER20> Wait does that mean I can use my laptop's screen as a hdmi screen?

<comment><USER21> HDMI ports can work that way, if the software is in place to support that kind of functionality. However piracy concerns or laziness seem to have trumped that option on the market today.

Yes you _should_ be able to, but no you probably can't

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> I'm amazed noone here has mentioned RetroPie[1]. A model B Raspberry Pi or even a Zero (if you can get one) should play NES games perfectly fine. You can get USB NES controller adapters pretty cheap or some knock-off USB NES controllers instead. I have a SNES-USB adapter for my setup that takes two SNES controllers.

[1] - [https://retropie.org.uk/](https://retropie.org.uk/)

<comment><USER23> I'd personally recommend Lakka[1] (Kodi's distro modded to boot straight to Retroarch) over it, having used both. Worth it for fewer problems with controller mappings, if nothing else. Boots to a usable GUI in ~3-4s on a Pi2, which is nice. If you're using a Pi it's easy to try both before deciding, so may as well check it out.

Anyone in the market for hardware, I've found that the abilities of various devices tend to be overstated. Pi2 was _in fact_ good enough for close-to- perfect NES, _almost_ good enough for perfect SNES (fine for many games if you can tolerate the occasional slowdown or audio glitches), could play Mario64 acceptably but pretty much no other N64 games. Bizarrely decent at Playstation.

I'd imagine the Pi3 is pulls off SNES very well, just judging from the specs, though I don't have one yet. Be aware that these games _will not look right_ without beefier hardware that can handle CRT shaders to (sort-of) correctly fuzzy-up the image. So, not a Pi. I now run Lakka on an Asus chromebox, which was about double the price of a Pi with a decent power adapter and not-hideous case, but can do the CRT shader thing and handles later consoles much, much better. Emulation on x86 tends to be more stable and better supported (faster) in general, so know you'll be on second-class (though rapidly improving!) platform if you go ARM.

Try out several controllers before settling. I found that the easiest solution (XBox360) failed my usual test of Punch Out and Super Mario. Couldn't block or dodge worth a damn in Punch Out (unsurprising given the 360's Dpad's reputation) and kept running into bottomless pits in Mario (I found switching between the "A" and "B" face buttons to be too slow). The 360 controller made it _feel_ like the emulator input was lagging, but it in fact wasn't. PS3 controller works well for me. Wii Classic Controller Pro is even better, but I have yet to find a to-USB adapter that isn't messed up in one way or another—last one I tried would periodically register a bunch of wild analog stick input for no obvious reason, making it useless for N64 and Playstation. A big Retroarch-specific benefit of a PS3 or Wii Classic Controller is that you can use their home/menu buttons to bounce to the Retroarch menu, saving you from configuring a button combo for that—IIRC the 360 controller wouldn't let me use its home button for that purpose.

[1] [http://www.lakka.tv](http://www.lakka.tv)

<comment><USER24> > (Kodi's distro modded to boot straight to Retroarch)

A little pedantic, but Lakka is based on OpenELEC (and may have switched to LibreELEC by now). OpenELEC/LibreELEC are buildroot based OSs that boot straight into Kodi. Neither are affiliated with the Kodi project - but the devs get along and communicate.

<comment><USER23> 100% correct, my mistake. I've not run Kodi, but I used a mix of Kodi and OpenELEC docs/forums setting up my Chromebox for Lakka, so I tend to confuse the two. I should have googled it first.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> This is a bit of a desperation move from Nintendo as they have pretty much nothing for the holidays for the Wii U with the NX still in development on the horizon.

That said, at that impulse buy price point, I'll definitely pick it up and I'm sure it'll be incredibly popular with those that grew up with the system. This isn't the sort of product that really grows Nintendo's market with a new generation.

I wouldn't be surprised if it outsells the Wii U this holiday.

<comment><USER26> This is what worries me about Nintendo. With the possible exception of Pokemon Go, they aren't capturing new users. They make money off of loyal fans who grew up with Mario and Zelda. Do kids today care about Nintendo?

<comment><USER27> My kids(8 and 6) each have a 2DS and we have Wii and Mario and Zelda are among their favorites. Many of these are re-releases of old Nintendo games on either the virtual console or things like Mario 64 DS or Ocarina of Time for the 3DS, but also newer games like New Super Marios Bros and LoZ Twilight Princess. They enjoy these games right up there along size Minecraft and what ever that bear game my daughter plays.

<comment><USER28> Have they played Zelda: Skyward Sword? It's not as good as TP or OoT, but it's still really good.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Aww no Contra at launch. (They do have non Nintendo titles though like Megaman 2, so it's not just a first party issue)

<comment><USER30> Super C is Contra II

<comment><USER31> Slightly different Konami code for that one too:

        Right, Left, Down, Up, A, B

Gets ten guys, if I remember correctly.

<comment><USER32> And "Fire" changes from the weakest weapon to the OP weapon.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> For kinda the opposite of this - super expensive, plays all NES games as carts - check out the Analogue NT: [http://www.analogue.co/products/analogue-nt- information](http://www.analogue.co/products/analogue-nt-information)

It's apparently sold out now, but it was a $500 NES built using clones of hardware, and with modern video and audio output. Jeremy Parish has a writeup over at USGamer: [http://www.usgamer.net/articles/analogue-nt-review-for- the-r...](http://www.usgamer.net/articles/analogue-nt-review-for-the-rich- niche-of-retrogaming)

<comment><USER34> There's also the Retron 5 that plays NES, SNES and Genesis carts.

Also the Retro Freak: [http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-cyber-...](http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-cyber- gadget-retro-freak-review)

Each of these devices have their own issues though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> Sega tried something similar with mixed results [1], the two main differences being that:

1- Sega went for a "clone" rather than emulation (even accepts Genesis cartridges)

2- Nintendo's IP in the classic gaming space is unmatched

[1] [http://www.gamestop.com/genesis/consoles/sega-genesis- classi...](http://www.gamestop.com/genesis/consoles/sega-genesis-classic-game- console/124933)

<comment><USER17> The most recent Sega units by ATGames are emulated, and they do an absolutely terrible job. Many of them have the FM sound channels out of tune with the SSG sound channels. It's a great way to get a terrible impression of the games offered for it.

The older TV Plug and Play ones, however, had a Genesis-on-an-ASIC, a native licensed silicon clone of the original chipset. These were super accurate, and could even have a cartridge slot wired to them by the enterprising modder. They ran at 3.3v, though, so things get quirky with a real cartridge without proper transcieving logic.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> > Sadly you can't use your original NES carts with the console - <USER2> > even the most basic "Famiclone" offers - and there doesn't seem to be any > means of getting new games onto it.

Would it really have been that much extra effort to make the console backwards compatible?

<comment><USER37> Don't you recall how unreliable that media/interface was? I don't think most carts aged well.

<comment><USER38> The ZIF connector on the original NES was unreliable. The carts are perfectly reliable. The NES 2 does not have the ZIF connector and doesn't have issues.

<comment><USER39> > The carts are perfectly reliable

Depends on the cartridge. Any of the ones with a battery save (like Zelda or Final Fantasy) need to be opened up, have the _welded in_ battery clipped off the board, have a CR2032 socket soldered on instead, and then put a new battery in and reassemble.

It's a LOT of pain to get a NES cart with a dead battery working again. That's probably why they opted not to put a slot in this thing -- many people's dusty old carts are dead, and not knowing any better, they'd blame the new console.

<comment><USER17> Replacing the battery takes a couple minutes. Many of those carts are still running. The number of decent NES games that used battery saving can be counted on your hands, so to call it a LOT of pain might be exaggerating a little.

<comment><USER39> A "couple of minutes" for a confident, competent solderer, which excludes about 99% of the target market for this thing. (Here's how to do it, if anyone's curious: [http://www.retronintendoreviews.com/nes-cartridge-battery- re...](http://www.retronintendoreviews.com/nes-cartridge-battery- replacement/))

And while overall most NES games didn't use a battery, many of the most popular ones (many of the ones included in this thing, in fact) do _need_ a working battery. Final Fantasy, both zeldas, startropics, tecmo bowl, crystallis, kirby's adventure...

<comment><USER23> If Crystalis has a battery-backed save system it's news to me. And I've beaten the game on the original hardware.

<comment><USER39> Crystalis absolutely has a save/continue system. You can see some guy demonstrating the save system in crystalis in this video, complete with save functionality: [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=73za3LHWzwk](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=73za3LHWzwk)

Are you thinking of some other game?

<comment><USER23> Incredible. I owned the game for years, played it a lot, beat it once, and never noticed a way to save, so I assumed you couldn't. I even had the manual!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> Reading these game names just tickled a part of my brain that hadn't been activated in quite some time. Can't wait to play these again.

</comment><comment><USER41> Please have Super Sprint, please have Super Sprint......nooooooooooooooo!

Oh well, I'll probably buy one to play games with my kids, most mainstream games today are too complicated to learn and I don't really find them fun despite how technically amazing they are.

<comment><USER31> Used to play Super Sprint with a friend for hours and hours. To keep racing, only one player had to come in first, so we'd take turns, with one player trying to win the race, and the other running interference. Fun times.

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> Part of me wants to say cool, thanks for paying tribute and making accessible. Part of me wants me to say ugh, for being unoriginal and milking old products, while using incompatible controllers, especially considering Nintendo used to sue people in the emulator/ROM/clone community, who are the real heroes for keeping the magic alive. I'd rather people just spend $30 for a raspberry pi and a USB NES controller.

<comment><USER28> >using incompatible controllers

Aren't the new controllers specifically compatible with the Wii and WiiU?

<comment><USER42> Ok, compatible within the newer nintendo universe. But not compatible with regular usb nes controllers, probably for the only reason is to make you pay for the nintendo variety instead of utilizing the already supplied market of cheap usb nes controllers.

It's not even compatible with the old nes controllers. At least with a pi, you could rewrire a nes controller to the GPIO or SPI.

<comment><USER43> Speak for yourself... I'd love to see controllers with the build quality from the SNES and Sega Saturn with a true USB interface. By that I mean, most of the aftermarket controllers suck, and the USB adapters are less than ideal.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> What are people going to do when they find out these games are "hard". and OMG those are some great games.

</comment><comment><USER45> Playing Tecmo Bowl with a roster of late 80s players is like double nostalgia for football fans. The legend of Tecmo Bo Jackson will live forever.

<comment><USER46> Was Bo in the original or just Tecmo Super Bowl?

<comment><USER47> Most definitely the original.

<comment><USER48> No. Tecmo Super Bowl (also for NES) is the one with Bo. First to have licensing to support it: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tecmo_Super_Bowl](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tecmo_Super_Bowl)

Shame they used Tecmo Bowl - is far inferior to Super Bowl.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER49> God I hate being nickle and dimed.

It should include everything needed - two controllers and a power supply FFS.

<comment><USER50> The power supply is USB. I'm more than okay with not getting yet another USB brick with every new device.

Not getting the controllers to me is a separate issue, but it does include one, and as far as I can tell, only the original NES, 30 years ago, ever came with more than one controller.

<comment><USER51> Especially if this thing is going to sit under your TV - I think most TVs these days have a few spare USB ports you can steal some power from.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER52> The title and even the image made this sound like a re-release of the NES hardware (2A03/6502 and all) with a slot to put in actual carts. That would have been a neat way to address limited functioning NES supply. Instead this is just a novelty item like so many other "Plug and Play" arcade packs that have been coming out for the past 10 years. A used Wii costs under $30, but of course people value these things differently. There are emulators that accept SNES and NES carts and plug into a TV, reading the cart data into memory. There are also emulators that try to fully emulate the hardware timings correctly such as puNES and BNES.

</comment><comment><USER53> I'm actually really excited about this. I just wonder if my kids will be as addicted to the old school games as I was.

<comment><USER54> I played a bunch of old NES games on an emulator in the early '00s. Two things stood out: (1) the graphics really were pretty lame, and (2) games I was addicted to as a kid seemed a lot more tedious as an adult.

Not saying the classics don't stand the test of time, but some of those old games are better as a memory.

<comment><USER55> For me there has been huge leap between the NES and the SNES in terms of graphics and game complexity.

Most of SNES games have aged much better than their NES counterparts, Super Metroid, Zelda, Chrono Trigger are still terrific games that I could play even today, while I agree that most NES games feel too old.

<comment><USER56> Yes, I've thought that the SNES, and to some degree, the Genesis, is where you can go back and find a lot of stuff in the "normal" line to play that holds up pretty well. I've gotten my kids (7 & 5) to respond to some SNES stuff, but anything earlier they find uncompelling.

I can't entirely disagree.

For context, my first console was an Intellivision, so, no, this is not because my first console was a SNES. I did own one for a while... in the early 21st century, long after the PS2 was established.

I think some of it is just that the limitations of the medium were just so shocking prior to that. The Atari era basically couldn't have text; every text you see on the 2600 is freakishly expensive. The Nintendo era was still counting every letter. The SNES era may still be terribly constrained by modern standards, but at least you could make pictures that were recognizable, play recognizable sounds, use text without too much fear, include more variations in play without too much effort, etc. There's a handful of games prior to that that work miracles with the resources they have (Super Mario 3 isn't "just" a classic, it's legitimately amazing for the hardware).

I'd point out that even the people putatively writing Indie games with "old school aesthetics" almost never hold themselves to the limitations of the Nintendo era or before. There are some games that come reasonably close to SNES aesthetics, though.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER57> So great to see Nintendo do this! I loved the NES. I hope this sells well (I will be buying one no doubt about that) so we see a SNES mini some time. The SNES is, and always will be, the greatest console for me.

</comment><comment><USER58> This will be a great alternative for the kids instead of a complex PS4 or Xbox. Especially considering the controller size is much more in line with their hand sizes.

</comment><comment><USER59> You know, if the controller or lack of some game really bothers you just get a raspberry pi.

</comment><comment><USER15> RIP Hi-Def NES [http://retrorgb.com/hidefnes.html](http://retrorgb.com/hidefnes.html)

Dude spend two years developing this product and literary launched last week [http://www.game-tech.us/blog/2nd-day-of-packaging-hi-def- kit...](http://www.game-tech.us/blog/2nd-day-of-packaging-hi-def- kits/#more-1294)

price was somewhere around $150

</comment><comment><USER60> I'm most excited to see a Wii NES pad as an official and widely available product. Hope they do the same for the SNES pad.

</comment><comment><USER61> I'm curious to see how accurate the emulation is. If you grew up on these systems, even small variations in things like timing and sound will stick out like a sore thumb.

Normally you'd expect Nintendo of all people to get it right, but from what I've seen of the Wii virtual console titles, they frequently don't.

</comment><comment><USER62> Launches Nov 11. This should be some nice competition for those knock offs you see at the mall around Christmas time.

<comment><USER63> Emulators/knock-offs is probably a large reason why Nintendo is releasing this. Just wished they had went a little step further and released a version that came preloaded with every NES/SNES game. They probably could have gotten away with charging $150+ for something like that while simultaneously killing the knock off market.

<comment><USER64> Those might not all be NES/SNES games [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHepjitYJmM&feature=youtu.be...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHepjitYJmM&feature=youtu.be&t=311)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER65> Good luck playing StarTropics without the submersible letter! :P

<comment><USER66> The Virtual Console version (which I assume this device runs too) contains the letter in the manual. See this video on how it works: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g_u4KUlW9A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g_u4KUlW9A)

</comment></comment><comment><USER67> Am I the only one to miss Tetris from the list of games?

<comment><USER68> You should look up the history of Tetris on the NES. It's an interesting story and probably still why it can't be included here.

<comment><USER69> This article gives a nice 10,000' history. The Rights to Tetris Were Originally Owned by the Soviet Union - [http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2011/02/the- rights-t...](http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2011/02/the-rights-to- tetris-were-originally-owned-by-the-soviet-union/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER70> Would have appreciated if they had provided more information about this. What about games that aren't pre-installed? Is there any kind of save- states/additional functionality, aside from HDMI and controller compatibility with Wii?

</comment><comment><USER71> I hope they didn't just bundle the games and called it a day.

They have such a big catalog of games they could do things like "Complete game X and Y, and unlock game Z". Things like that are super cheap to do, but add a lot of value to the product.

<comment><USER72> I am not sure how actively limiting access to part of the game catalog would be added value.

<comment><USER15> Let me introduce you to the wonderful world of launch day DLC.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> As someone that just shelled out $200 for a PVM CRT monitor to support retro- gaming, this device doesn't appeal to me _at all_. I'd wager I'd get a better gaming experience via a low-lag emulator with the appropriate shader plugins.

IMO, they should create a cheaper version of something similar to the Analogue NT[1], with built-in network connectivity that you can use to purchase and download legal roms.

[1] [http://www.analogue.co/products/analogue-nt- information](http://www.analogue.co/products/analogue-nt-information)

<comment><USER73> It already exists. It's called a Wii U.

<comment><USER34> The Wii U only supports Limited RGB, and playing on a Wii U misses the entire point of Retro Gaming.

<comment><USER74> > playing on a Wii U misses the entire point of Retro Gaming

So does having a TCP/IP stack and a download store :)

<comment><USER34> You're missing the point. Retrogaming is about creating the familiar feeling of _playing_ the games. A WiiU controller is not the same as a NES controller. HDMI is not the same as CRT + Scanlines.

Retro gamers generally play on the original hardware with CRT screens. If they can't do that, they play on emulators with using controller input converters and shaders or scanline generators. Gaming on a WiiU does not recreate that experience.

Watch the videos on this channel for more info:

[https://www.youtube.com/user/mylifeingaming](https://www.youtube.com/user/mylifeingaming)

<comment><USER73> I absolutely agree that retro gaming is about the "retro" feel, but I don't see how you can have that and have an internet store for legal roms. Would a raspberry Pi with an authentic NES controller + CRT screen connected through composite input fulfill your retro requirements for example?

<comment><USER34> No, the Raspberry Pi doesn't support RGB without additional external components that introduce lag.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> Al-Khwarizmi Definitely going to buy. I'll miss RC Pro-Am and Solstice, it would be nice to have a way to add more games to this thing, but the 30-game selection is very good anyway (the NES had a lot to choose from...)

</comment><comment><USER75> It's a pretty good deal for $60 but I hope there will be some way to add more games through emulation or download or whatever.

Also I want to see a Nintendo Classic Gameboy once. Please!

<comment><USER10> Given the relatively poor screen quality of the Gameboy (my memory is foggy, but seems to remember ghosting and generally bad refresh), I wonder about creating an E-Ink Gameboy Classic...

</comment></comment><comment><USER76> This would probably work great as a Raspberry Pi case. Too bad the connectors on the front aren't USB, although I'd probably use Bluetooth for controllers anyway.

</comment><comment><USER77> SNES was the golden age of video games. I wish people would make more games in that style. Super Metroid will never be topped at this rate, and that's pretty sad. You don't have to make games look realistic to make them addictive and fun. Give me a world I can explore, with secrets I can discover, where my character can grow and gain new abilities and combine them for unique new experiences. Stuff like that.

<comment><USER78> Have you not seen the Cambrian explosion of retro-style indie games on the PC? Quite a bit of it is RPGMaker shovelware, but there are a lot of real gems in there as well.

</comment></comment><comment><USER43> Not sure why they didn't go SNES controllers, and enough hardware to support SNES and NES games... add download purchases (to a login account) and that would be gold.

The SNES controller wasn't too much over NES, and the layout comparable... for example, I prefer the updated graphics versions of the Super Mario Bros series released on SNES to the original... not to mention a lot of other great games.

</comment><comment><USER79> I can't wait to pick one of these up and play it with my daughter. She's almost 4 and plays games on my cell phone all the time. She gets the basic concepts behind simple games like these already due to the ease of using a touchscreen interface, so I'll be curious to see how quickly she can pick up on a tactile input like this. Maybe we will start with something small like Pac-Man.

</comment><comment><USER80> One word: Bionic Commando

<comment><USER81> that's two words :-P

</comment></comment><comment><USER82> I understand the aesthetic value but to be really useful/fun a wireless controller would be better.

<comment><USER83> It says you can use the wii Classic controller, which is wireless

<comment><USER84> The Wii Classic Controller is wired. The port on the front of this console is the same port on the bottom of a Wii Remote, which makes it pseudo-wireless in a way, but there's no Wii Remote in this case so it is just wired.

<comment><USER85> Yup, it's I2C with a 1394-ish connector (which makers have taken advantage of before), so it is very easy to implement... with the added side benefit of selling a few of the standalone controllers for Wii[U] virtual console use.

The console itself is probably a simple ARM chip - the BCM2835 in the first- gen Raspberry Pi would work perfectly, among tons of other possible SoC's. It will probably be under a plastic blob, but someone will find out sooner or later ;)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER86> As a collector I will buy this anyway, but I also must admit that the games included are actually very good ones.

For example some great games like Final Fantasy 1 were never released in Europe.

Also the controller can be useful for those that want to play games from the Wii Virtual Console.

</comment><comment><USER87> No duck hunt!? What gives?

<comment><USER62> Light guns aren't super great on modern TVs: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5128407](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5128407)

<comment><USER88> It seems to me that it should be possible to mount an actual camera in the gun now and have the system simply compare what it sees on the gun camera vs. what it is displaying on the screen. We have the computer power to do stuff like that now.

It won't work for retro-gaming, but it's a possible path forward for gun games on modern consoles.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER89> Wow, this is going on my christmas list :) I REALLY hope they expand on this by offering game packs in the future. Such a good idea. $30 game packs full of games, would sell like crazy.

</comment><comment><USER90> Pretty cool. It'd be nice if you could add games somehow.

</comment><comment><USER91> What I need is a 700-in-1 cartridge for my 1990s NES clone.

</comment><comment><USER92> Well NeoGeo released a new handheld portable a few years back running a bunch of classic NeoGeo games, and it failed miserably on the market.

<comment><USER93> The NeoGeo was always much more of a niche system than the NES. The sales method (collections of games on memory cards) and initial piracy holes (you could load up all the ROMs onto an SD card and never have to buy any collections.

Also, the hardware was crap. Even though the games were made for 4:3 monitors, the system shipped with a 16:9 phone screen (likely because 4:3 screens are harder to source cheaply nowadays).

<comment><USER92> the screen was not appropriate but the hardware was not crap. the controls used very high quality click-joysticks, that you find nowhere on portable consoles.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER94> If they had lowered the price and networked it, could have allowed us to buy new games online... weird that they didn't go that route

</comment><comment><USER95> BEST NEWS EVER!!! Since I only have old cartridges on a wall for display, I'm actually pretty happy I won't need to use those.

</comment><comment><USER96> Wait, but if there are games included does this mean I won't have to blow into the box to get them to work!?! I call shenanigans!

</comment><comment><USER97> I would buy it if it allowed downloading new games into it. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Arcade Game! Who's with me??

</comment><comment><USER98> I wanna buy only to help nintendo make this stuff a success, so maybe they can replicate with snes...

</comment><comment><USER99> It would be fun if they release a developer kit for this and allow homebrew games and firmware.

</comment><comment><USER100> If enough of these sell, some game developers will have good reason to make NES games again.

<comment><USER101> I can't imagine any good reason to create an NES game today. Even if you want to go for that aesthetic, there are far, far easier ways to make games.

</comment></comment><comment><USER102> Looks great, but I won't be able to get very far without a Game Genie...

</comment><comment><USER103> I was pretty exited but huge disappointment. Huge You can pretty much buy a raspberry pi and rest of the equipments to play NES games for same price. No cartridge slot or ways of playing other games? They obviously didn't try to make a good equipment.

<comment><USER83> This is legal way to play all those games if that's any consolation. And it's got a nice aesthetic

</comment></comment><comment><USER104> > there doesn't seem to be any means of getting new games onto it

Typical Nintendo "75% right" and "25% how did they screw this up"

</comment><comment><USER105> Haaa Bubble Bobble. Infinite Levels.

ps: no cartridge, no blow. sad ;)

</comment><comment><USER106> That's a cute idea, but my NES classic edition is my phone / tablet - [https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.explusalph...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.explusalpha.NesEmu)

That said, I'd buy this thing from Nintendo if you could add games to it. I'd give them an extra $1 or $2 per game. Gotta have Tetris & RCR!</comment>


Optimising our learning retention rate with SRS (Anki) - <AUTHOR> https://pawelcislo.com/2020/07/10/optimising-our-learning-retention-rate-with-srs-anki/ <comment><AUTHOR> Here is my detailed blog post on the use of Anki, with the links to recommended plugins, decks and more. It also explains how do I apply it to studying new languages or even programming.</comment>


Recommending information by relevance inferred from human brain signals - <AUTHOR> http://www.nature.com/articles/srep38580 <comment><USER2> In five years, I expect to see Amazon paying workers to trawl the Amazon catalogue, recording their neural output to derive associations between otherwise tenuously related products, and feeding those into its recommendations.

"Customers who viewed this item also thought about:"

;)

<comment><USER3> MindBlock: A Google Chrome extension that prevents websites from reading your brain's neutral signals.

Highly controversial among publishers for hurting the online ad industry. Some see it as a type of piracy, as it allows users to browse websites without offering publishers a way to recoup hosting costs.

<comment><USER4> LOL. I am pathetic at getting puns. I actually googled for it. But that would be cool thing if it existed.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> How about a correlating eye-focus with brain activity to derive not just meaning from a sentence, but how _difficult_ it is, or how much though it provokes aka a _deep_ or conceptually-terse statement.

Then if another user skips over a terse statement without much thought, either:

a) they are a subject-matter expert

b) they are mis-reading (or skimming in favor of some other focus)

</comment><comment><USER6> I look forward to the day I can put on my brain hat and use it to automatically vote on Hacker News posts for me.

</comment><comment><USER7> I see a market for contactless EEG readers emerging.

</comment><comment><USER8> Neural Lace inbound!

<comment><USER9> With uses of that technological limit as ethically questionable as the question of how ethics limits technology's uses.

<comment><USER10> I've been considering how both input and output software for such a thing may work quite a bit recently. I'm glad I did because the research was further along than I had expected. Here's a nice example on the input side; note it's from 2015 (!) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Qi5uoNYXqg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Qi5uoNYXqg) The potential ability to edit parts of my personality I don't like eg. anger, motivation, etc. is far to useful to be ignored. I believe that as long as this technology is 'open' most of the fears surrounding its use can be mitigated.</comment></comment></comment>


PolyCrypt: WebCrypto API Polyfill In JavaScript Funded by Homeland Security - <AUTHOR> http://badassjs.com/post/40101764862/polycrypt-a-webcrypto-api-polyfill-in-javascript <comment><USER2> I understand why JS crypto is insecure (they are obvious) but I get the feeling from linked article that even hashing a password is insecure.

Why it should be insecure to hash data locally? As I said, I understand this for two-ways algorithms (crypto) but I don't for one-way ones (hashing).

<comment><USER3> Before I say anything, most arguments against JavaScript crypto assume you are using a browser to develop a web page; if you are not, then it shouldn't be any different than using any other quirky scripting language.

So, the goal of hashing the password is what... to keep from sending the password to the server? And the reason that you don't just do that (using SSL, for example) is because you don't trust the server, right?

Well, if you have compromised the server, you can probably just return a different version of the JavaScript that sends the password anywhere you want: the entire premise of JavaScript assumes you trust the server.

(The code could still come from your sever, and protect you and your user against an unrelated compromise in a JSONP API service you are using. FWIW, I think anti-JS crypto people are overly zealous.)

<comment><USER2> Hashing the password in browser would be just another layer, just for preventing MITM attacks (or Nokia decrypting your SSL traffick in their low- bandwith Internet service). But, as you said, if the server is compromised, it just doesn't matter.</comment></comment></comment>