Plug: the brain of your devices - <AUTHOR> http://meetplug.com/kickstarter/

<comment><USER2> This seems like a very ambitious project, which is great. It does seem at risk of boiling the ocean. They're taking on:

* NAS device with encrypted file storage and UPNP

* setting up a VPN

* client software for said VPN on each platform (or at least installers that can configure each platform's native VPN support)

* multi-device file sync

* _whole_ -device file sync, with client software for each platform, presumably with subtle kernel-level code (those "patent-pending technologies")

* versioned backup

* "instant file transfer" (presumably this is just their streaming tech repackaged, but it's a separate UX to develop and maintain)

* streaming file delivery across varying-bandwidth connections

* presumably media player apps on each mobile client platform to consume said streaming media

Each of those things is plausible, putting them together makes a lot of sense at the product level, and it would be a godsend if they can do it well. I guess I just wonder why they're not raising $5M rather than $100k.

(Maybe the team is actually an established company with 20 engineers, and the Kickstarter is purely to bankroll the initial production run? It's not clear from the team bio.)

<comment><USER3> All these are already done by our Tonido ([http://www.tonido.com](http://www.tonido.com)) and TonidoPlug project and it is available and it works.

<comment><USER4> If you allow me a humble suggestion as a customer, you should use this as inspiration to rethink your product pages:

        the new, Ultimate low-power, low-cost home, small
        business server and NAS powered by Tonido platform

versus

        Plug makes your computer bigger.
        Make all your devices one.

These guys do have a slightly above healthy amount of fantasy in their copy, but it's a much easier sale.

<comment><USER3> You are right. They have done a great job on the copy.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Yes. Store hundreds of movies and hundreds of thousands of pictures on plug and access them anywhere![1]

[1]: So long as you have an absurdly fast internet connection at your house, and also have an absurdly fast internet connection wherever you are that you're trying to use this thing...and aren't on an airplane, or in the car, or on a train...which is when you would generally want to watch movies on your tablet.

<comment><USER6> On the other hand, store things on a 3rd party cloud storage provider that will happily hand everything over to the NSA whenever they ask... If it's in your home they don't have an easy interface to it, they have to physically infiltrate your residence, which costs a lot more and, presumably, will require more than a passing interest in you to happen.

<comment><USER7> Sure but then your hard drive fails (as they tend to do) and you lose all the data. Sounds like the right solution is just encryption on the client + 3rd party cloud storage.

<comment><USER8> Except its easy to build RAID enclosures that are USB mass storage devices. Plus, it replicates data across multiple Plugs in different location, and I think the Plug software also shares data on your computer (which can be RAIDed) through your private Plug network as well.

<comment><USER9> RAID is _not_ a backup solution. If your filesystem is corrupted in software (or you just mistype and delete something important), it will happily replicate the damage across all of your drives.

Personally I feel recommending RAID to home users is generally a bad idea. It gives a false sense of security.

<comment><USER8> Depends on the file system implementation. Smarter RAID implementations, such those integrated into ZFS, will not be easily taken down.

In addition, RAID does not require you to use local devices. I agree, however, it is not a backup solution, and I did not claim it was. I merely stated RAID is how you deal with drives dying and taking everything with it. Backups is how you deal with RAIDs or entire locations dying, ergo, offsite backup.

And multiple Plug installations seems to cover the concurrent offsite sync part of that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> "When Plug is installed on your computer, our application intercepts all the input/output operations performed on your files, using several patent pending technologies. When Mac OS X, Windows or Linux want to store or access data, they ask our application instead of manipulating the hard drive."

They've patented FUSE now? Or is that NFS?

<comment><USER2> FUSE wouldn't do what they claim to do. FUSE would let them create a Dropbox- alike, i.e. a separate partition whose contents are synced to the Plug. Using FUSE to intercept all I/O on _all_ files would require you to migrate your entire directory structure to their FUSE filesystem; probably a rather unfriendly setup procedure.

If their description is to be believed, they're presumably installing a kernel module which hooks in above or below the filesystem layer, so it doesn't require you to modify your existing filesystems.

<comment><USER11> That would be the "Translucent File System" from Sun, patent #5,313,646 ([http://www.google.com/patents/US5313646](http://www.google.com/patents/US5313646)). Back when Sun was building a new source code control system (code named Avocet) they wanted a way to create a 'view' of the branch which included stuff from NFS servers and stuff locally. The problem is subtly tricky in some ways (creating 'whiteout' to delete a file which exists in one layer but not the other).

Its a really handy thing, and I was very impressed with it in the mid '90s when I was using it. Perhaps its time has come again?

<comment><USER12> A similar technique is also used in IBM's Rational ClearCase suite. It uses a proprietary networked filesystem to provide a dynamic view to users. It was an interesting attempt at a solution for version control and I'm sure that its in use today.

\- [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearcase](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearcase)

<comment><USER11> I have a fuzzy memory of the folks at Rational licensing the entire source code product from Sun at one point. I know some of the key engineers on it went to work for Rational (this was all pre-IBM acquisition)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> This is very exciting because I feel this addresses one of the cornerstone technology failures that keeps me from enjoying the computing model I want, which I call PAO [1]. Namely, it deals with the failure of VPNs to evolve into something that regular consumers can understand. Plug in this device, add a hard drive, and access your data on your various computing devices from anywhere on the Internet. VPNs have had the underlying capability to provide that access to personal data, and those savvy enough to implement a personal VPN server do so. I don't use cloud file servers because I can access my home network's file server over an IPSec VPN from all of my devices. But what a pain in the ass.

Most people defer the responsibility to manage their data to cloud vendors because cloud vendors solve the key pain point (I need my data everywhere) at the seemingly low cost of just losing control and some added friction. But the alternatives where control is retained have classically been user interface disasters. I imagine my mom setting up an IPSec/L2TP VPN--yeah, not happening.

Even as someone who does have the ability to set up a VPN, I am left with routine annoyances associated with the abysmal user interfaces associated with managing VPN connections.

Of course, in addition to this, to realize PAO, I still need an OS-level application server concept with all my applications designed in a "responsive" model servicing multiple concurrent views. But providing always-on plug-and- play VPN connectivity and from-everywhere access to personal data is a leap forward.

Thanks for your work on this, guys!

Such a device has the potential to render all traditional cloud storage vendors obsolete, and I welcome that potential future.

[1] [http://tiamat.tsotech.com/pao](http://tiamat.tsotech.com/pao)

</comment><comment><USER14> "Ever needed to send hundreds of pictures to a friend? With Plug, we invented a technology to transfer files instantly. No matter their size, no matter their number. That's also part of our job to simplify storage."

How exactly are they planning to make that a reality?

Say I've been out filming with my GoPro and my friend wants the clips, or I've taken some photographs with a DSLR (which are at least >5MB in size per picture).

It can't be instant.

<comment><USER15> I suspect that by "transferring" the files they mean "transferring a token allowing the recipient to access the files from your plug". From there, under their (debatable) underlying assumption that accessing files from a plug from your device is fast, it's as if the data has been transferred: recipient can view the files on their device, except they're being fetched from your plug (and maybe copied to their own plug in the background).

(Caution, this is just speculation.)

<comment><USER14> That was what I was thinking too, but it all depends on everyone having high- speed internet.

Which will happen in the future, but at the moment there are lots of people with <5Mbit connections, and preferably to be able to access your files like they claim you with images and other medias you will need something like a 100Mbit or better connection anywhere you go.

How widespread is 4G connectivity in the world?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Reminds me of the PogoPlug[1]. I came across it when buying a SheevaPlug, the device it was originally built on.

[1]: [http://pogoplug.com/devices](http://pogoplug.com/devices)

<comment><USER17> Pogoplug is not a free service. I bought one thinking it was. They actually cap the amount of data you can store. I believe it is 5GB for free.

Mine's running Arch Linux Arm now, with Open VPN, NFS, Samba and simple DLNA. Much more useful! I just wish I could re-encode the stream to my iPad. Often the video on my iPad refuses to playback proper.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Can we have a discussion about marketing? Like how does this $60 niche product raise $150k in 2 days? Was it hyped before hand? Did kickstarter hype it? Anyone know the details behind their PR?

<comment><USER19> They are one of the most brilliant tech teams in France, and got at least a good headstart there. Then they did Techcrunch, etc. The high quality Kickstarter page & video certainly helped a lot too.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> I don't believe this project can accomplish all of what it claims it will.

Media streaming alone is an art and a science all in itself. There are various formats, encoders, decoders, etc... This is why AirServer/AirVideo is its own thing already... and I'm sure they're very busy.

[http://www.inmethod.com/air-video/](http://www.inmethod.com/air-video/)

And file sync plus version management? Resolving conflicts there is yet another art all in itself.

It would be amazing if they could pull 50% of this off, and even at 50%, their engineers have their work cut out for them BIGTIME.

<comment><USER21> This is just a Linux server running something like Samba [1] to share files across your local network or the internet. Quite basic stuff. I've had this setup at home for ages, using some old cheap laptops/computers.

You can actually replicate this on Windows or Mac natively. Just share a folder.

Am I missing the exciting part?

\--

Edit: for crying out loud, my _media-center_ has a sharing functionality. Which means my media-center does exactly what this Plug thing supposed to do, without all the non-sense proprietary marketing shenanigans.

Wake up people. This tech has been around for ages!

1\. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samba_(software)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samba_\(software\))

<comment><USER22> You're missing a lot more than the exciting part. You need to wake up yourself, go back and read it again then come back and tell us how to to all that with samba (of all things).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Oh wow, I feel so sorry for anybody who has backed this. The promises they make are simply technically impossible on devices such as iPads and iPhones. They also don't say they have actually done anything in that area either, only that they have a prototype for Win/Linux/Mac desktop - probably an unpolished clone of Dropbox.

<comment><USER24> See [http://www.tonido.com/](http://www.tonido.com/) . (Sidenote: tteam posted this; is tteam affiliated with Plug? Is Tonido their previous project?)

What makes it impossible on iPads and iPhones?

<comment><USER25> the way I see it, it's "impossible" because (for example) if you use plug to keep your music in sync, it won't be viewable in iOS's music app, only through whatever app plug puts together.

<comment><USER26> What's so special about the iOS music app?

<comment><USER27> Well, you have to use iTunes to sync music to it. A 3rd party app on the device can't do that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> Is it RAID configurable? Is the data encrypted at rest, and, if so, how? Will it support two factor authentication? Will Plug ever "phone home" for any reason or report any data (meta or otherwise) to anybody except the purchaser? Will the software be open source, and if not how do we trust this device from a security standpoint? Can Plug be used effectively as a NAS without the syncing software?

I know it's difficult to tell, but I'm very excited about this.

</comment><comment><USER29> I like how this image:

[https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/719/044/5881e3534d86...](https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/719/044/5881e3534d86253c2e4545cde9727586_large.png?1372879330)

totally rips off the Sparrow icon:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sparrow_icon.png](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sparrow_icon.png)

</comment><comment><USER30> I'd love to hear more about how this works on iOS. How does the Plug app have access to files in the local filesystem outside of the Plug app's sandbox?

<comment><USER31> What I imagine for the mobile clients is that it would be a window to the files in your Plug. You can stream whatever you like from your Plug with internet access, and download whatever you have room to store for offline use.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> I think this project has great ambition and tone. I like it, it seems good.

But — trust users to manage their own physical data? Forget it. It seems to me that people don't just want their data accessible from everywhere, but they want it to be kept in perpetuity. Considering the backup schemes I see among even tech savvy friends: really, forget it. Those fussy WD Passports can't compare to the reliability of Glacier. The cost of cloud storage is worth it.

There are a few workarounds I can imagine though, and I like where this is headed overall, so: nice work!

<comment><USER33> When you combine this with Backblaze/Crashplan as they suggest multiple times, you theoretically get the best of both worlds...

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> I was piecing something like this together on my own with a laptop and a pile of external hard drives, when I found my desk overrun by the little things. They were too fragile and didn't stack well. I started looking around for a shelf to hold external hard drives and do cable routing, when it hit me "oh yeah, that's called a desktop computer." So I bought a nice computer case and a relatively inexpensive motherboard/CPU combo and filled it with disks. Way sturdier, and much faster. I'm not sure at all what I was thinking before with that USB idea.

Using external hard drives as a semi-permanent storage array is not a good solution. For an appliance, Drobo/Synology has the right idea here, and I think this group is making a mistake by expecting people to build a disk array out of a hub and USB drives.

<comment> j-kidd I went through a similar phase trying to use an OpenWRT router plus external hard drives for file sharing. The main problems are performance and reliability. I can only get 20 MB/s read and 10 MB/s write using a decent router with a decent processor (MIPS 74Kc). Plus, USB connection is much less reliable and sometimes the drives would get disconnected.

From the kickstarter page, Plug can only do 30 Mb/s, which is ~4 MB/s and likely not enough to stream Bluray ISO. A fast enough processor is essential for NAS.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> I actually really like the idea, but the problems I would have are:

My current internet has awful upload speeds, but I've had fibre in the past and many other people do/will.

So ruling that out, my other issue is surely my main PC has to be on? 99% of my media (the only real use to me) is on it.

Wake on LAN was a given I thought. I didn't read anything and quick CTRL-F finds nothing. It was quite hard to read through the spiel but if it's 2 years in development; is WOL such a given they don't mention it or is there a reason they're not doing it?

</comment><comment><USER36> Hmm. Plug will apparently retail for $150. If I look at the dual band 802.11n router I have which happens to have a USB host port for NAS (which seems to be common these days?), it's $87 on Amazon, and of course if you don't want the router part you can get something for much less, or just use an existing desktop if you don't mind the power bill.

Of course much of the value is in the convenience of setup and the full- featured set of client software that they've developed. But $150 seems like a huge markup.

<comment><USER37> Looks like you can just download the client software for free and do the home PC/Router approach without having to use a plug: [http://www.tonido.com/tonidodesktop_pricing/](http://www.tonido.com/tonidodesktop_pricing/)

<comment><USER36> That appears to be a different company.

<comment><USER37> Ah, you are correct, I can see that tteam posted comments and made it clear that they are not associated with the plug team.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> All possible, all been done before in smaller parts, all the UI is not simple, all the side issues / polish are infinite, blah blah blah, it's all true. I totally agree.

If it comes out and it's even half-way decent, I'd buy one. If it's decently usable, I'd buy a few, and send them to friends and relatives. I'd _love_ these, and even with my meh internet connection it would easily keep up, and I'd just have to buy an additional external hard drive every year or so.

</comment><comment><USER39> So, can someone from Plug explain what you're really trying to accomplish.

I'm already stuck at "They have one content, but multiple devices. So they spend a lot of time just figuring out where are their documents. And they keep moving their files to-and-from tiny Cloud folders. " It doesn't mean anything.

Is this private cloud storage with auto-syncing across all your devices? That already exists, to the extent that it does just that, if you know what I mean.

</comment><comment><USER40> I think the real implications of Plug or a similar system are actually in the VRM vendor rights management and API's, not in the media play features.

We really need to wake up and realize that having all of our connected devices reliant on 3rd party servers will not scale.

I want to see this device have babies with another crowdfunded project BRCK [http://brck.com/](http://brck.com/) for backup connectivity, power, and mesh networking.

</comment><comment><USER41> Very interesting hardware specs:

Embedded Linux (OpenWRT based)

x86 compatible processor

I'm curious as to why they didn't go with an arm-linux combination. In any case, it sounds pretty well powered and I'm wondering if they'd ever allow 3rd party app development for it as it would be cool to have a tiny embedded box that takes care of the VPN aspect of connecting securely back to home. I'm thinking home automation type stuff.

</comment><comment><USER42> So it's a USB backed NAS with some custom software to manage sync on computers and devices? Okay that actually sounds pretty good since NAS devices are usually pretty expensive. When multiple disks are installed in the USB chain does it manage the data so that a failure on a disk doesn't lose data? Will it alert me if one of the disks went bad?

The Kickstarter mentions online backup solutions, but does it have any integration with them?

</comment><comment><USER43> I think this is a very neat project and am looking forward to seeing how it turns out. One thing I would like is the ability to have a software only solution. I already have a NAS and have no desire to buy another USB. I get why for simplicity reasons they are going with the hardware but I would love a software version.

<comment><USER44> Take a look at OwnCloud [http://owncloud.org/](http://owncloud.org/) and BitTorrent Sync: [http://labs.bittorrent.com/experiments/sync.html](http://labs.bittorrent.com/experiments/sync.html)

</comment></comment><comment><USER45> What does the average "30Mbps" mean in the specifications? Is that the max it can write to a connected drive? Read speed from a drive? Average transfer speed over the network? If yes to any of the above, then isn't this quite slow for anything other than a few small pics and documents?

</comment><comment> hex- This seems like it could appeal to a lot of people right now. As seen by DuckDuckGo's recent spike in use, a lot of "regular" internet users are more concerned with privacy. People could use this as a "private" Dropbox that is still easy to use.

</comment><comment><USER46> I would personally fear doing any product that tries to integrate all your media for all your devices...especially because Apple and Samsung are spending hundreds of millions of dollars in R&D working on the exact same thing.

<comment><USER47> Fear what? Fear if that was your product or fear adopting their technology?

Apple and others (I'm not too familiar with what Samsung is doing) are approaching this in a different way. They're going for the hosted server approach and we've seen scaling issues. Another huge issue is the walled garden.

I'm glad to see new guys like Dropbox gain a lot of traction and welcome others.

My main concerns after seeing this are the integration (can they keep it all these clients up to date and bug free or will my data be trapped behind a poor client?) and drive failure.

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> Pretty dishonest. They claim you have to manually copy files to and from DropBox, but I've always just used the auto-sync feature. The only files I generate not in my DropBox are the ones in source control.

<comment><USER49> I'm pretty sure they mean that you have to manually copy and store all your files in the Dropbox folder, where with plug, any file anywhere on your PC gets synced.

I'm not entirely sure that's a good thing, but it's definitely different.

<comment><USER50> This can already be accomplished with Dropbox just by symlinking...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> It's like git-annex ( [http://git-annex.branchable.com/](http://git- annex.branchable.com/) ) on an embedded linux box with a different front-end and ios support.

</comment><comment><USER52> So this essentially turns a flash drive into a NAS that's accessible over the internet? I'd like to know how it's web-accessable. Is there a web server built into the plug device?

<comment><USER53> Most likely. Couple that with uPNP and a dynamic DNS and it's web accessible. The PogoPlug does it too (and yes, these seem to all be built off the same/similar SoCs)

</comment></comment><comment><USER54> Awesome idea and it seems very ambitious. I wish it supported USB3 and gigabit ethernet though, especially when you're talking about several Terabytes of files and streaming movies, etc.

</comment><comment><USER55> Looks like it draws energy from Ethernet to power the Plug Device and the USB drive. Is that right?

Do consumer-grade routers/switches deliver power over ethernet?

<comment><USER56> It has a power adapter, I didn't read anything about PoE.

</comment></comment><comment><USER57> This is the kind of device for the lucky folks who have 1Gb/sec, such as google fiber. I like the idea but it may be a few years too early.

</comment><comment><USER58> I sincerely doubt how ease and stable a local (actually home-based) service can be compared to cloud-based service.

</comment><comment><USER59> So long as you live in Latvia, where we have an absurdly fast internet connection ;)

</comment><comment><USER60> Congratulations on your success! I'm rooting for you

</comment><comment><USER61> Is that the sparrow logo in one of the screenshots? ...

<comment><USER29> Yeah, looks like they took it - [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sparrow_icon.png](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sparrow_icon.png)

</comment></comment><comment><USER62> 10/100 Ethernet?! What the? This is 2013...

</comment><comment><USER63> Best Kickstarter project I've seen so far!

</comment><comment><USER64> Umm … so it's a USB version of DropBox?

</comment><comment><USER65> Awesome project! Good luck!

</comment><comment><USER66> The "PRISM-free" bit is misleading and not even mentioned in the kickstarter.

<comment><USER36> It is prominently mentioned near the bottom.

<comment><USER10>
        > Ctrl-F
        > "PRISM"
        0 results

<comment><USER52> Look for "Your storage is fast and private" (it's near the bottom). This image is directly below the title:

[https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/719/145/cd13e6df1821...](https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/719/145/cd13e6df182197433e374d3da2c7f65c_large.png)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> cupcake-unicorn "How is this different than Dropbox?"...Ok, you attempted to answer that. How is this different than having a NAS, which can hold big TB hard drives, have RAID, often run linux (mine is running cron, etc. to transfer files).

Just a few fancy apps and features? I just don't get how this is different than any network storage on any network and how this is really all that innovative at all.</comment>


Chaincode Labs app dev residency for Bitcoin/Lightning, stipends available - <AUTHOR> https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/chaincodes-residency-program-back-time-lightning-app-classes/ <comment><AUTHOR> Website here: [http://lightningresidency.com/](http://lightningresidency.com/)

Chaincode Labs will be subsidizing flights to and lodging in NYC, so this is a great opportunity to get some experience building on top of Bitcoin using the Lightning Network.</comment>


Introducing "Boston": a premium responsive theme for Wordpress. - <AUTHOR> http://boston-theme.com

<comment><AUTHOR> This is special for you if you're tired of Svtle and Medium, or you just want to host your own content. Live Demo: [http://www.unblogged.net](http://www.unblogged.net)</comment>


AI Startup Boom Raises Questions of Exaggerated Tech Savvy - <AUTHOR> https://www.wsj.com/articles/ai-startup-boom-raises-questions-of-exaggerated-tech-savvy-11565775004?mod=rsswn <comment><USER2> AI is absolutely an amazing tech feat and a major game changer. Cant wait for it to be discovered.</comment>


How to Design a New Chip on a Budget (Andrew "Bunnie" Huang) - <AUTHOR> https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/computing/hardware/lowbudget-chip-design-how-hard-is-it <comment><USER2> Thanks article touches two issues: tools and manufacturing costs.

Has anyone used qflow & co and actually shipped a chip?</comment>


Class-based programming in JavaScript with inheritance - <AUTHOR> http://joii.harold.info/

<comment><USER2> Not sure why people are so readily negative, but I think this is a clever way to create class-like models with less boilerplate.

Even in PHP I get tired of writing explicit getters/setters.

</comment><comment><USER3> Ugly, awkward and adds nothing of value.

</comment><comment><USER4> I think we needed something that makes JavaScript's prototype inheritance more stand out.

<comment><AUTHOR> Agreed.

This library isn't meant to 'bash' on the prototype inheritance. It's purely meant as personal preference over prototyping. Especially for programmers coming from a Java or PHP background.

</comment></comment><comment> peter-mrg please... don't</comment>


The most logical explanation is that it comes from a laboratory - <AUTHOR> https://www.minervanett.no/corona/the-most-logical-explanation-is-that-it-comes-from-a-laboratory/361860 <comment><USER2> This article has been posted several times, occasionally hitting the front page before being flagged off. It seems like a good article about legitimate scientist who holds a controversial opinion.

Rather than just flagging it, could we have the discussion about why it is extremely unlikely to be true? The alternative is that those who believe the virus was created in a lab never get to see the the counter arguments, and probably consider the flagging as confirmation that they are correct.

Alternatively, could we use this space as the discussion for why the article is inappropriate? While it's arguable that the origin of a virus off-topic for a tech site, I feel certain the issue is not the topic but the conclusion. What's the argument that this conclusion is too dangerous even discuss?

<comment><USER3> I'm flagging it because it's just presenting the view of some guy who asserts something.

There's not enough information in there for a fact-based discussion. Since this topic is unfortunately a politically loaded one, that basically guarantees the discussion is going to turn to shit.

If somebody were to post an article presenting clear arguments based on data, I wouldn't flag.

<comment><USER4> Sure, here you go: [https://arxiv.org/abs/2005.06199](https://arxiv.org/abs/2005.06199)

This uses a rigorous bioinformatic analysis to demonstrate that the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein has dramatically stronger binding affinity for human ACE2 than any other known version of the protein.

This is the case for the version of the protein observed at the very beginning of the outbreak. The virus evolves slowly, so this implies a very long period of transmission in human cells, which is compatible with a zoonotic transfer much earlier than expected (possibly many years) or gain of function experiments in cell cultures.

As a biologist, I find this to be sufficient factual information to motivate a discussion about the possible origins of the virus.

<comment><USER3> Ok, interesting. But there's a huge issue of selection bias here. We're interested in this virus precisely because it poses a threat to humans, so obviously it's adapted to humans.

As a biologist, I therefore think this does not mean much at all. ;) At least not without a more quantitative treatment of the claim that "this implies a very long period of transmission in human cells".

Thanks for posting this though!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Article which refutes the findings: [https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnikel/2020/06/07/controver...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnikel/2020/06/07/controversial- coronavirus-lab-origin-claims-dismissed-by-experts/)

<comment><USER5> The articles and sources from the articles you have linked seem to refute the claim that the virus was artificially engineered from scratch; rather than having a lab accelerated evolution towards 'desireable traits' for human infection that TFA is suggesting

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> I came to this link from HN, but noticed it was deleted? Not sure why?

<comment><USER6> Probably because it makes a lot of claims while dismissing every other explanation. Without citations, it is indistinguishable from the Weekly World News.

<comment><AUTHOR> I've also linked to an article that dismisses the study in question, and links to it.

[https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnikel/2020/06/07/controver...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnikel/2020/06/07/controversial- coronavirus-lab-origin-claims-dismissed-by-experts/)

But why would it be deleted? I guess because it has already been on here? Maybe multiple times? But wouldn't people just link to previous discussion(s)?

<comment> Pick-A-Hill2019 Fair enough [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23725966](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23725966) (18 points, 4 comments, Flagged. Posted 1 day ago) [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23727763](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23727763) (10 points, 3 comments, Not Flagged. Posted 1 day ago) [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23738264](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23738264) (22 points, 4 comments, Flagged, Dead. Posted 3 hours ago) & yours (21 points, 14 comments, Flagged) I don't have a stance on the topic (that I want to discuss or is relevant here) but I nearly skipped it since it seemed a bit Off Topic in regards to the submission guidelines and possibly a bit 'hot button- ish' but was intrigued enough to take a look and comment after seeing a 21 point submission being Flagged. Hope that helps [Edit to add - I didn't downvote or flag any of these but up till now had not read any of the links nor comments]

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks, I hadn't seen those. I did a search, but I guess flagged submissions don't show up. It might be handy to have a link to see the flagged ones. If that was the case, I wouldn't have re-submitted.

Edit: Just did the search again, for "laboratory", and this flagged submission showed up. Not sure why the original one didn't show up for me.

<comment> Pick-A-Hill2019 I picked them up from a search using [https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=minervanett.no](https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=minervanett.no) as a query. Usually HN detects a duplicate submission URL (or certainly it did - which has saved me from posting a dupe or two in the past)</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


The 3D Real/Virtual World Hybrid: How Far Away? - <AUTHOR> http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/06/14/the-3d-realvirtual-world-hybrid-how-far-away/ <comment><USER2> Isn't there a YC company doing this sort of thing?</comment>


Geohot's Thoughts on Reverse Engineering the Brain [Audio] - <AUTHOR> http://audio.sxsw.com/2012/podcasts/10-HYT-SPEAKERNOSHOW_The_Frontier_reverse_engineer.mp3 <comment><AUTHOR> Remember the voices that think not enough hackers get into stuff that matters? This is a hugely interesting talk about what the future could look like and about some of the workings of our brains.</comment>


Representatives that rejected limits on NSA data collection and funding sources - <AUTHOR> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AitechWnbrJVdFpZYjBYSkJCNms4M1ozLVVjSXhpTWc#gid=0 Feel free to add sources/links/columns to the list. There's 217 rows. <comment><USER2> The most interesting takeaway from the data in this spreadsheet: _every single member_ of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence voted to reject these limits, regardless of party affiliation. This committee is responsible for intelligence oversight and is briefed on all intelligence activities by the executive branch--mostly classified information. In other words, these are the House members which are most familiar with how the NSA operates, its oversight (or lack thereof), the intelligence it obtains, and the action taken on that intelligence. By virtue of sitting on this committee, they are also likely to receive political contributions from the defense industry.

<comment><USER3> And the people in congress who get the most access to all that data. Perhaps they should have recused themselves?

<comment><USER2> Are you suggesting that they use this data for personal gain? Who better to judge the tradeoffs than those who have seen the data? Someone who hasn't seen it, perhaps?

<comment><USER4> Data is indeed irrelevant; it's how it's collected that is the issue. So letting the former influence the latter is most definitely not proper.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Of the Bay-Area congress people I know (Eshoo, Lofgren, Honda, Speier, Pelosi), only one rejected limits on NSA. Pelosi.

Nancy Pelosi, representative of San Francisco, voted in favor of unlimited NSA wiretaps for all of your phone and email traffic.

<comment><USER2> Pelosi also happened to serve as the ranking member the House Intelligence Committee. The Intelligence Oversight Act of 1980 explicitly requires that the president keep congressional intelligence committees fully and currently informed of all intelligence activities, which means that Pelosi likely has seen more classified/NSA information than any other House member. She is also from perhaps the most liberal district in America.

<comment><USER3> Yeah it's like asking the kid with his hand in the cookie jar to sign onto a bill calling for the lid to be put back on.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> It would be interesting to do some data mining on the open secrets data set for things like this. Has anybody seen any work on identifying statistically significant funding sources for clusters of representatives based on the way they vote?

<comment><AUTHOR> Very true. Wish I had the time to toy around with D3JS.

My goal with starting the google doc was to make it easier for people to target the companies that fund the politicians.

If everyone who sees this doc, fills in 2 rows, this will be done in a few minutes.

<comment><USER7> A lot of these donors probably donated to the other side, too. "I won't do business with anyone who funds politicians I don't like, even if they also fund politicians I do like" is not necessarily a bad policy, but just be aware that that's what you're adopting if you choose to move your business away from these donors without also checking out the other side of the coin.

<comment><AUTHOR> That's a really good point.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> It's fun picturing yesterday's emergency top-secret hearing[1].

"We'd just like all of you in the House to know that we've recorded every single one of your phone calls and have all your emails on file. If this amendment passes and our funding gets cut..."

[http://rt.com/usa/nsa-surveillance-amendment- amash-485/](http://rt.com/usa/nsa-surveillance-amendment-amash-485/)

<comment><USER9> Snowden has alleged that Congress is not affected by NSA surveillance.

Source: top answer at [http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward- snowden-n...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward-snowden-nsa- files-whistleblower)

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Here are the final vote results on ROLL CALL 412 (Amash of Michigan Amendment No. 100) from the House website.

[http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll412.xml](http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll412.xml)

<comment><USER11> The most interesting part is that the difference in votes is exactly equal to the number of individuals marked as "not voting".

<comment><USER10> As the guy said at the end of the film _Contact_ , "that is interesting, isn't it?"

Keith Ellison: "For the government to just collect people's data without any sense of that individual warrants or merits and investigation of some kind is a problem. I am pretty disappointed we didn't pass it, but I am pretty impressed with how well we did. This issue is not over. There will be more voters and there will be more bills. I feel confident we can perhaps prevail."

[http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/25/narrow-defeat- ns...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/25/narrow-defeat-nsa- amendment-privacy-advocates)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I honestly didn't expect my representative Chris van Hollen (his Congressional District is the MD suburbs of Washington, DC, not too far from the NSA), to vote to de-fund it. It would result in hundreds of lost jobs in his district. But nevertheless, I regret not making the phone call yesterday.

I hope this bill is offered up again, so I get a chance to tell my representative my opinion on it.

Edit: probably hundreds of jobs, not thousands.

<comment><USER13> Remember this wasn't to defund the NSA, just to defund the programs that spy on us citizens.

<comment><USER12> Correct - but this would still mean tons of lost jobs in this area, right? Surely, some human's eventually got to analyze the stuff.

<comment><USER13> The claims are that no one looks at it unless they are specifically chasing down a lead - c.f. their redefinition of "collecT" from "acquire" to "look it up in the database of acquired data." Presumably they would have just as many analysts working cases without this database.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Sort by state/district and party: [http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/113/house/1/412](http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/113/house/1/412)

</comment><comment><USER15> This is great. We need more public shitlists. Transparency in action!

<comment><AUTHOR> Shitlist is a great addition to my vocabulary. Thanks!

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Thank you for this. First we need transparency, then we need action.

<comment><AUTHOR> No problem. Can't wait to turn this into a network graph and shine light on the fattest nodes.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> I'm curious of the motivation behind Issa's nay. I remember him being at the forefront of the SOPA rejection along with Chaffetz, Lofgren and Polis, all of whom voted for the limits.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> McCarthy rejected defunding programs that spy on US citizens. Go figure.

</comment><comment><USER18> 20 representatives from California, I'm disappointed.</comment>


Show HN: Classic Board Games with a Modern UI (Progressive Web App) - <AUTHOR> https://boardom.io <comment><AUTHOR> I've been cranking on this app the last few months and now it's out in the wild. This, in my opinion is how turn-based gameplay should work on the web.

\- deep linking for friend/game invites

\- push notifiations

\- service workers

\- UI works for 4k displays and tiny phones</comment>


ASCII Art in .NET Code - <AUTHOR> https://mattwarren.org/2019/04/25/ASCII-Art-in-.NET-Code/ <comment><USER4> An interesting thing about the Timelines example is that the Reactive Extensions world uses a lot of similar ASCII drawing and often refers to them as "Marble Diagrams". There are tools to generate nice graphic versions of ASCII Marble Diagrams. Some unit tests frameworks for RX libraries even support writing tests directly as ASCII Marble Diagrams:

[https://github.com/ReactiveX/rxjs/blob/master/docs_app/conte...](https://github.com/ReactiveX/rxjs/blob/master/docs_app/content/guide/testing/marble- testing.md)

</comment><comment><USER5> Of course, whole another level of using ASCII art is to make it executable, as done by a good friend of mine: Stack Trace Art ([https://github.com/ironcev/stack-trace- art](https://github.com/ironcev/stack-trace-art)).

I've loved it so much that when I saw it for the first time (some 5 years ago) I had to port it to JavaScript (original is C#) and you can see it here: [https://github.com/selectnull/stacktraceart](https://github.com/selectnull/stacktraceart)

If you're interested in story of how the idea was born, read about it in these blog posts:

* [http://thehumbleprogrammer.com/stack-trace-art/](http://thehumbleprogrammer.com/stack-trace-art/)

* [http://thehumbleprogrammer.com/his-majesty-hangul-the-filler...](http://thehumbleprogrammer.com/his-majesty-hangul-the-filler/)

<comment><USER6> Wow, 'Stack Trace Art' is very cool, thanks for the links!

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> I have no connection or affiliation with this product, but I enjoy a good ASCII/Unicode chart in code—a picture is worth a 1k words—and I've been leaning on [https://monodraw.helftone.com/](https://monodraw.helftone.com/) lately for my text drawing needs.

<comment><USER8> Pretty funny that a format intended to allow you to draw without a mouse now has a visual designer.

Are there serious interactive image editors that don't require a mouse? For symmetry's sake.

<comment><USER9> I remember ASCII and ANSI art editors that were meant to be used with mouse ever since the DOS times (often distributed through and for BBS) in the late 80s/early 90s.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Comments like this are often discouraged because they're difficult to modify when the code is changed, but in these cases it seems their purpose besides explanation is to imply that there is a good reason the code is the way it is, and that you had better have a _very_ good reason to change the code (and the accompanying comment). In other words, they serve to also guard against change, in parts of the code which should not change often.

<comment><USER11> Most of these diagrams don't look that difficult to modify -- but then, I've got Emacs (with picture-mode, artist-mode, table-mode, etc). The presence of a diagram would not discourage me from changing a function, if I thought it needed changing. I wish most functions were so well documented!

It's true I haven't seen any IDEs with similar capabilities, so I imagine it is harder for other people. At what point does it become permissible to say "It's not my problem you choose to use a text editor that isn't capable of editing this style of text"? We're certainly well beyond that point in most other areas, e.g., indentation, capitalization, or renaming.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> How does the regex work?

<comment><USER13>
      "/\*" - literal forward slash followed by literal asterisk
      "(.*?)" - followed by zero or more of any character, captured non-greedy
      "\*" - and another literal asterisk

      "|" - all of the above, or the following

      "//(.*?)" - literal two forward slashes and another non-greedy anything
      "\r?\n" - a possible carriage return followed by a newline

      "|" - <USER3>

      the following pattern in double quotes:

      "(\\[^\n]|[^"\n])*" - a backslash followed by one character that is not a newline, OR anything that is not a double quote or a newline.  this sequence can occur zero or more times, and both the matching sequence and all of the matching sequence are captured

      "|" - <USER3>

      "@("[^"]\*")+" - a literal at sign, followed by one or more of anything that is not double quotes, enclosed by double quotes.

All it's doing is sniffing segments that look like they might be comment blocks, sections in double quotes, and... I'm not actually sure what the last segment would be, it seems to capture @"whatever"? Regardless, this doesn't actually sniff for ASCII art as much as comments themselves.

<comment><USER6> > Regardless, this doesn't actually sniff for ASCII art as much as comments > themselves.

Yeah you're right. The regex just finds comments. I then wrote some very simple code that analysed the text inside the comments to find _potentially interesting_ ASCII Art. I then looked through these manually to get the ones for the post.</comment></comment></comment>


This map shows the extent of the Southern California apartment boom - <AUTHOR> http://www.ocregister.com/2017/11/13/apartment-boom-construction-hits-26-year-high-as-renter-numbers-soar/ <comment><USER2> > And because most of all this new construction is for luxury apartments, > there's very little that's affordable to middle- and low-income workers.

I always hear this argument. Have there ever been many private-sector apartment complexes built specifically for low-income families? I'm under the impression "projects" were built by governments specifically because there was no private sector desire to build them. They would be low-profit, they tend to have higher defaults/eviction issues, and low income neighborhoods (especially with common areas) tend to fall into disrepair more than higher income areas. Low income renters tend to have to find older apartment complexes that have lost their luster.

The fallacy here is omitting the fact that as new high-end high-density housing is built, the pressure on older/existing housing goes down for those who can't afford to live in a new place.

Adding more housing supply in many different neighborhoods will help the nearby low-income neighborhoods by reducing the cost of rents.</comment>


Bitfinex has been hacked - <AUTHOR> https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/announcements/?id=35

<comment><USER2> Though bitcoin exchanges being hacked seem common, it sounds like this one did a good job with layered security. Though we don't know what the damages total is yet, at least it isn't a complete loss.

<comment><USER3> The fact that people can be saying encouraging things about the technical design or security of Bitfinex should tell you a lot about how seriously to take message boards on this topic.

Bitfinex was, according to reports I've read, derived from the source code for Bitcoinica, which was an exchange written by a 17 year old most famous for its spectacular security failures.

<comment><USER4> Do you know anything about the current state of their security?

<comment><USER3> I won't do security work for companies like these.

<comment><USER5> So the answer, in other words, is "no".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Hacked? A bitcoin exchange? No! It can't be!

At least it's their first time. Others are hacked on a semi-annual basis.

<comment><USER7> Let's hope it's _actually_ the first time.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> The guardian story earlier this week that talked about the NASDAQ using colored coins to represent ownership of financial assets seems like a pretty terrible idea when framed in the context of inevitable bitcoin theft. In this case, the hot wallet strategy minimized the financial damage incurred by the institution, but even this relatively small amount of bitcoin could have been a devastating loss if the coins had represented valuable NASDAQ financial assets.

<comment><USER9> Not 100% certain on what their proposed colored coin protocol is, but any instrument that's not a block chain currency itself can simply be detached from the colored coin in case of fraud.

I.E.: If you steal a colored coin linked to 5000 shares of Apple stock registered at a certain broker, then that broker might be informed that the colored coin was stolen, and then simply refuse to act out any transaction on the authority of the colored coin. NASDAQ, authorities and the broker can figure out amongst themselves what should happen to the 5000 shares of Apple stock represented by the colored coin. I imagine they'll simply fabricate a new colored coin and issue that to whoever lost the previous coin.

It's important to note that because Bitcoin is a public ledger, it is trivial to tag and subsequently identify stolen colored coins. This tracability is probably exactly what makes NASDAQ interested in Bitcoin as a tool for financial transactions.

<comment><USER8> What is the point of using bitcoin at all if a central authority is capable of rescinding the value of the coins at their discretion? The NASDAQ might as well skip the overhead of a global decentralized ledger and simply use a centralized system that they have complete control over.

<comment><USER10> Because NASDAQ does not need to be involved in each transaction unless there is a dispute or fraud is detected.

<comment><USER8> This seems like it would be prone to abuse. What is the advantage of transacting outside the purview of the central authority while still being subject to the prerogatives of the central authority? If I strike a deal with someone behind closed doors, then that person later claims that I actually stole from them, I have to trust that the central authority will make the right decision regarding the nature of the transaction, otherwise I may end up getting retroactively screwed in the deal. The reverse is also a concern; someone could steal your coins, then claim that you're only filing a grievance because now you regret the deal. All this does is give the central authority _less_ information from which to draw an accurate conclusion.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> We need for decentralized exchanges, like [http://multigateway.com/](http://multigateway.com/) or Mercury

<comment><USER7> No, we need exchanges not built by a bunch of amateurs, opportunistic risk takers and outright scammers.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> coincides with hacking of bitcointalk.org server. Interesting!

<comment><AUTHOR> comment from elux on reddit seems like it gives some more plausible details.

[http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/36uxxz/bitfinex_has...](http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/36uxxz/bitfinex_has_been_hacked/)

I also remember this from a few days ago..

[http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/353yu8/bitfi...](http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/353yu8/bitfinex_having_serious_lag_issues_be_very/)

<comment><USER13> And now Reddit is down...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> There's no connection between this company and the PC case manufacturer by the same name, is there?

<comment><USER15> No, that one is spelled differently (Bitfenix.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> "hacked" = "stealing from your own website"

<comment><USER17> That would only be if they took customers' funds. They're saying that they'll eat the loss.

<comment><USER18> That's only fully realized if all customers pull out funds. If they're operating a fractional reserve, that's just a statement, nothing more. (There's zero reason why every exchange can't prove they're 100% funded on a regular basis)

<comment><USER17> How would they prove how much they have in deposits?

<comment><USER7> See [https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitfinex-passes-stefan- thoma...](https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitfinex-passes-stefan-thomass- proof-solvency-audit/) and [https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/audit](https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/audit)

But even if you trust that (just think that they could borrow the money or convert usd to btc specifically for the audit), it's only the BTC part. They have tons of USD deposited too, there's no proof for that.

So there's no definitive proof that any exchange holds all the value it owes to its depositors.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


JSZip: Create, read and edit .zip files with JavaScript - <AUTHOR> http://stuk.github.io/jszip/ <comment><USER2> We use jszip for parsing xlsx/xlsm/xlsb files in the browser (Excel 2007+ files are zip files that contain XML or binary files in specific locations): [https://github.com/SheetJS/js-xlsx](https://github.com/SheetJS/js-xlsx)

JSZip works well for small files, but unzipping XLSB files larger than 50M seem to cause out of memory issues in Firefox

<comment><USER3> Have you considered zip.js instead? It claims to work with files up to 4GB. It also can zip large files without any issues for me in Firefox.

<comment><USER2> When we first evaluated options, zip.js only supported IE9+ (and IE6-8 were still relevant browsers) while JSZip supports IE6+. In fact, the Base64 text box was introduced in [http://oss.sheetjs.com/js- xlsx/](http://oss.sheetjs.com/js-xlsx/) specifically to test IE6-9 (which do not support the HTML5 File API)

<comment><USER3> I see. Inevitably its support for older browsers makes it slower, however.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I tried JSZip not too long ago for my side project and it was quite slow. I've been using [http://gildas-lormeau.github.io/zip.js/](http://gildas- lormeau.github.io/zip.js/) and I'm very happy with it. I hope to release my web app some time this week.

<comment><USER3> zip.js seems to be the better of the two. It uses typed arrays, so it's performant and I can zip large (140MB) files quickly and without hanging the browser.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Actually, one of the best use case for this is, when a user wants to upload multiple images / files, we can use the html5 file api with zip js generate 1 zip file and upload just that one file and extract on the server. It will be much faster. And actually you can use this in the web worker api so it doesn't block the Ui thread

</comment><comment><USER6> Potential use case: instead of using CSS sprite maps (putting all of your images into one image to reduce the number of http requests generated by your page, then using css magic to select regions inside of that image), image files could be zipped into an image package that is delivered to the client, who unzips it and uses the images inside. This would cut down on the number of requests made, but allow the images to be used as normal images instead of as images within a sprite sheet.

<comment><USER7> The crazy thing: in this thread, you are all right. The state of sending multiple files sucks. ZIP is the closest thing we have to a universal standard, if only because Windows refuses to ship with support for anything that is meaningful.

<comment><USER8> I seem to recall them getting a big fat law suit when they tried to bundle things with their OS. Perhaps they don't bundle things anymore for a reason?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> We've used [https://github.com/EvanOxfeld/node- unzip/issues](https://github.com/EvanOxfeld/node-unzip/issues) in production and we've had a surprising number of corrupt zip files created by it. We've switched to using a barely wrapped zip command line tool.

Is PSZIp better?

</comment><comment><USER10> It's really fast at reading zip files created by Google takeout. I use it at [http://theyhaveyour.info](http://theyhaveyour.info) as it works perfectly with the FileReader API. For reading only though - haven't tried writing with it.

</comment><comment><USER7> Holy carp on a stick, that was so easy. You've made my day today.

BTW, here is how I make files download with the filename that I want: [https://github.com/capnmidnight/JWD/blob/master/html5/deskto...](https://github.com/capnmidnight/JWD/blob/master/html5/desktop.js#L6-L16)

The call to the "a" function on line 8 is just generating an HTML anchor tag. You should be able to figure it out from there.

</comment><comment><USER11> Why not unrar and untar using javascript as well?

[https://github.com/varunmayya/bitjs](https://github.com/varunmayya/bitjs)

</comment><comment><USER12> If you're purely interested in client-side compression in the browser (i.e. compatibility with server libraries/filesystem tools is not important) it's possible to get better compression in less time using [http://pieroxy.net/blog/pages/lz- string/index.html](http://pieroxy.net/blog/pages/lz-string/index.html)

</comment><comment><USER7> This is exactly a project I was about to embark upon to generate ePub files from client-side JS. Thanks!

<comment><USER13> Interesting - can I ask what you're working on? I'd be a bit worried about potentially memory issues with image-heavy ePubs.

<comment><USER7> A minimalist writing tool to train beginner novelists on completing writing projects: [https://www.justwritedammit.com/#main/about](https://www.justwritedammit.com/#main/about)

I'm specifically targeting novelists (at least, right now), so pictures and complex layouts shouldn't be an issue. I want it to be something you can easily pick up, plod away through, maybe pay someone to do some editing for you, and then walk you through pushing it out on the Amazon Kindle Store.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Does this handle very large files on Node.js? npm for one fails with large files, by "large" I mean something like a few hundred megabytes. It's very problematic especially on Windows.

</comment><comment><USER15> Am I misunderstanding this, or could this be used to send a client a large amount of data in a zip file? Let's say the client is using WebView...

</comment><comment><USER16> >JavaScript today is capable of generating a lot of data. The easiest way to deliver multiple files to your users is in a zip file. Instead of wasting server resources and bandwidth you can get the client to do it for you.

... Am I not understanding what they're saying here or do the authors really not understand how the internet works?

It looks to me like they're saying "don't bother letting your users download zip files. Save your bandwidth! Just get them to send themselves a zip file, client-side!"

<comment><USER17> Consider something like bootstrap, which allows you to customize your download before sending you a zip file.

The assets are already loaded (since you're viewing the bootstrap demo page), so instead of making a request to another server to generate some sort of compressed file for you, that labor is offloaded to the client.

<comment><USER18> Except you're unnecessarily bogging down the user's browser to a far greater extent (base64 encoding/decoding everything on a possibly underpowered CPU/IO) than the amount of work it would take to do it on the server (pure binary processing on a high end CPU).

I'm guessing Bootstrap can do it because they know most Bootstrap users are developers with decent PCs but for a more mainstream audience, it would be problematic.

<comment><USER19> Have you used Mega.com? It does in-browser (JavaScript) encryption of uploads and downloads. And I can still hit 5 MB/s throughput. JavaScript can handle Zip compression easily.

For most users, bandwidth is in shorter supply than CPU. Especially on mobile (your constrained CPU/IO case), where people are using 3G or worse, which is often even billed by the MB.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Atwood's law in action

</comment><comment><USER21> Is this really news? Almost every server side language out there will have a zip library, and I doubt any of those got mentioned on HN.

<comment><USER19> Server-side languages, yes. There are lots of those, so each one doesn't impact many. But there's only one client-side language on the web, so it impacts everyone.

<comment><USER21> So we are reporting it just because it is JavaScript.

<comment><USER22> Yes. JavaScript is lingua franca of the Web, so it may be important to have a particular functionality implemented in JavaScript.

This way, if you, say, want to take a part of the program and use it elsewhere, you have the advantage of the same language. If you want to ask a question about the program, you can count on other people knowing the language. If you want to illustrate something using a program, you have a common ground here.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Write and Submit your first Linux kernel Patch - <AUTHOR> http://ontwik.com/linux/write-and-submit-your-first-linux-kernel-patch/

<comment><USER2> In case you don't watch the whole video: <http://kernelnewbies.org/>

A great starting point for kernel hacking.

</comment><comment><USER3> Greg is an all around stand up guy. I personally like his presentation style and even though I've been hacking on the kernel for a while now at my current job, I never realized some of the things he presented. The checkpatch script is great, except that a lot of companies still ignore it. Freescale's BSP patches are extremely poor by checkpatch's standards, and that's what I spend most of my days fixing

</comment><comment><USER4> Greg Kroah-Hartman is a great speaker & teacher. If you'd like to jump into Linux USB programming, his presentation on that is golden: <http://www.kroah.com/linux/></comment>


Bloomberg's investment portfolio includes bets on private equity, fracking - <AUTHOR> https://theintercept.com/2020/02/24/mike-bloomberg-investment-portfolio/ <comment><USER2> Of course it does...</comment>


Dropbox's Drew Houston Responds to Snowden's Privacy Criticism: It's a Trade Off - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2014/11/04/dropboxs-drew-houston-responds-to-snowdens-privacy-criticism-its-a-trade-off/?ncid=rss

<comment><USER2> for me, the "trade-off" was between a service that lied to its customers about security issues and was exposed as being complicit in massive violations of user privacy and...take your pick.</comment>


P = NP - <AUTHOR> http://arxiv.org/abs/1208.0954 <comment><USER2> It's fascinating how this sort of thing keeps attracting interest. Here's a list of 100 proofs that P=NP or P≠NP, which includes this one: [http://www.win.tue.nl/~gwoegi/P-versus- NP.htm](http://www.win.tue.nl/~gwoegi/P-versus-NP.htm)

There's nothing to make this attempt more worthy of interest than the other 99, as far as I know.

<comment><USER3> Which makes me wonder: how do you filter these? In physics it's common practice to ignore papers about Perpetuum Mobiles (excuse the probably incorrect plural), but here we have a topic that is somewhat easy to write good and bad about while still having very high relevance.

<comment><USER4> Here's two lists of ways to filter. They're heuristics, but they work well.

One for general mathematical proofs: [http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=304](http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=304)

One specific to P != NP: [http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=458](http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=458)

<comment><USER5> Two notes on these:

1\. On the first one, note also numbers 11 and 12 Scott mentions in the comments.

2\. The second is not always so specific to P vs. NP (and indeed has some overlap with the first -- #1 on the second list is a stricter version of #3 from the first). #3 and #4 for instance could be applied to lots of hard open problems, #6 to really any hard open problem, and #5 is basically fully general.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> A proof that P=NP without an accompanying program that solves SAT or another NP problem in polynomial time does not count to me :)

<comment><USER7> I agree

And let me say, I don't even care about a paper. Sure, it's useful, but it shouldn't be the focus.

A simple implementation that solves _any_ of the NP problems in polynomial time is a much better proof than any article.

(of course, those that prove P != NP can't do that, still)

<comment><USER8> I beg to disagree with both of you.

You are kinda disrespecting the important of theoretic research, and a big part of any field of interest on research.

<comment><USER7> Oh the theoretical aspect is important.

But applying it is important as well. Of course, most quantum computing algorithms have not had a chance of being implemented; it's not always possible

Or, as Knuth put it "Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it."

But if someone comes up with a paper showing a new algorithm but doesn't come up with an implementation of it when it would be straightforward to do so, I begin to doubt this person.

Most other fields don't have the luxury of easy testing.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> This was already posted here. It is fatally flawed in that, although the theoretical computing time is polynomial, the memory required grows exponentially.

<comment><USER10> Memory growth is not a consideration in the academic proof, Turing machine tape is infinite in both directions.

<comment><USER11> Turing machines have may have infinite memory, but they can also only write one step per cell. So a polynomial-time TM can't use superpolynomial memory.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> The best intuition I've read that P = NP can't possibly turn out to be true, is that if it were, you could write a piece of music as easily as you could appreciate it.

Also, I can't imagine the answer to something as fundamental as this coming out of a hacky solution. There's probably a more elegant, natural way to prove it. And by natural I mean maybe they should start looking outside Turing's theory.

<comment><USER13> I've read that one too, but I don't particularly like it. P=NP implies only that all problems which can be verified in polynomial time can also be solved in polynomial time, not necessarily that it can be solved as quickly, nor that it can be solved easily.

Perhaps writing a piece of music is also done in polynomial time, but it requires more training (more advanced algorithm)? Or, perhaps, the time complexity is x^3 for writing, instead of x for appreciating.

<comment><USER12> Agreed, it is bit sensationalist. But what if someone proves it and then we realize that even though it can be done in polynomial time, there's some other constraint (like "x^N but N has to be super big") that renders the result impractical?

I think once someone proves it, it will be obvious in hindsight as a lot of people are just ignoring the isomorphisms in nature.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I would wait until the paper has no more corrections made at least for a whole non-summer month. Well, it looks like there were no corrections in October but maybe he took his vacation then?

Give it some more time, I suggest.

</comment><comment><USER15> Can anyone comment on how credible this is. It seems to have been submitted many times.

<comment><USER16> Every once in a while some publishes a paper that seeks to prove that N equals NP, but so far none were conclusive. Given that track record and the fact that the all existing evidence points to N unequal NP, I would be very cautious with this paper.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> But only when N is 1 or P is 0.

</comment><comment><USER18> seems like a solid argument to me for peer reviewed publications.

</comment><comment><USER19> Even if this content is quite old, the idea of linking it here in those days is quite clever. Just tell me how many of you did not immediately think "Oh crap, my RSA is doomed!".

<comment><USER20> Cryptography? Really? Wouldn't this mean you could create absurdly intelligent AIs and solve pretty much any optimization problem?

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> How did this go from being #3 on the front page of Hacker News to non-existent even two or three pages back?

<comment><USER22> Moderation</comment></comment>


ClickToFlash - WebKit/Safari plug-in to prevent automatic loading of Flash content - <AUTHOR> http://code.google.com/p/clicktoflash/ <comment><USER2> In case you are wondering why something like this is useful beyond blocking advertising, here is why I use a Flash blocket:

When you are on a laptop and use a bazillion tabs, Flash is allowed to do whatever it wants, even in tabs you aren't using. So it can max out your CPU looking for aliens. (Adobe may or may not have good reason for allowing this, but 99% of the time, Flash should go to sleep when you aren't looking at the page.)

Ever since I've been running a CPU monitor on my MacBook Pro, I have found ways to keep it at a minimum to maximize battery power. Flash is one of the worse idle CPU eaters.

Using a flash blocker has been one of the best ways. It's an extra click to watch a YouTube video, but the upside is that I get more time on a charge and my machine stays cooler.

<comment><USER3> Though Safari does have it right that Flash doesn't load until you view the tab. I can load up a bunch of video clips in the background and they start playing only when I enter the tab. FireFox really grinds my gears in that regard.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Amusingly Microsoft was forced to implement this in IE due to a patent infringement case: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eolas>

And it turns out some people _want_ this as a feature.

</comment><comment><USER5> The Firefox equivalent is Flashblock (<https://addons.mozilla.org/en- US/firefox/addon/433>) which I can't live without!

</comment><comment><USER6> "Your client does not have permission to get URL /p/clicktoflash/ from this server."

looks like the author made it private? too bad.

<comment><USER7> There's a forked version available at: <http://github.com/rentzsch/clicktoflash/tree/master>

<comment><USER6> looks like rentzsch's crew has already added a bunch of improvements. good to know.</comment></comment></comment>


Experian leaks info from 15M T-Mobile credit applications - <AUTHOR> http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/01/tmobile-experian-hack/ <comment><USER2> Now T-Mobile is providing 2 years of free credit monitoring to those whose data were breached by Experian.

Who provides the monitoring? None other than Experian.

<comment><AUTHOR> I think they realized how stupid that was, so they are looking into finding another provider...</comment></comment>


Google Just Leaked Their +1 Chrome Extension On National Television - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/04/google-plus-1-extension/

<comment><USER2> I don't believe it is a "leak" when a company makes a conscious decision to put it in a multi-million dollar marketing campaign.

[EDIT: Too much caffeine]</comment>


The Winklevoss twins are now Bitcoin billionaires - <AUTHOR> https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/4/16732952/winklevoss-twins-bitcoin-billionaires-surge <comment><USER2> Related discussion from a day ago: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15836087](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15836087)

</comment><comment><USER3> Good for them. The other thread here on this was filled with people complaining about how lucky the Winklevii were here. Most success scenarios I'm aware of are heavily driven by chance. People tend to attribute success to luck whenever they don't think it was deserved (it's a very "what the thinker thinks, the prover proves" type of arrangement). In this case, I find attempts to discredit these guys as quite absurd. They took an early plunge into a technology they found had potential and built one of the finest exchanges for it (Gemini).

</comment><comment><USER4> as my investment banker grandfather was keen to drill into me very early, the proper ending to this sentence is "[...] when they sell."

<comment><USER5> Oh yeah, I learned this lesson this month.

My stock holdings doubled in a relatively short time a few weeks ago... and then this last week (and now today) they came back down. I'm slowly learning the lesson that for nearly most people speculative investing is a waste of time and money. I'm now going to be deleting all of my apps where I "check" things like I check the news when I wake up every morning, will now just peak in every other month or so.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Can anyone give an credible estimate of the net currency flow between bitcoins and conventional Forex market? (no investments in mining)

By all means be Bitcoin fan, but unless you can answer my question, you know nothing.

Every time the market sell side , the BTC value drops like a stone. Bitcoin has large market liquidity risk and Winklevoss brothers have liquidity problem. Bitcoin markets don't seem to have any resiliencey and breath. There are no controls for market manipulation.

<comment><USER7> I cannot answer your question but BTC comprises $191 billion market cap out of $342 billion market cap of all crypto currencies. Perhaps they'll diversify into other coins, withdraw to Fiat via this too.

<comment><USER6> Market liquidity problem means that they can't diversify easily. Any large withdraw would collapse the price.

That's why I was asking the question. Market cap can be billions or trillion, especially in manipulated markets, but if you can't withdraw your money with that price it was not real value.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Looking forward to a similar article in 10 years:

"The Winklevoss twins are not Bitcoin bankrupts"

/s

</comment><comment><USER9> One day only about 1 bitcoin (worth 1 trillion) will be actually tradable. Everyone else will be holding.

</comment><comment><USER10> Meritocracy in action.

<comment><USER11> They took the risk, gambled on Bitcoin when others were too afraid to. They were rewarded for their gamble. Seems fair to me.

<comment><USER10> Sure, and how did they have the money to gamble (sic) on Bitcoin?

<comment><USER11> They were entrepreneurial enough to get entangled with Zuckerberg and Facebook.

And to do that they had to be at Harvard at the right time, which involved being born in the right circumstances of course.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Play Framework 2.0 Final released - <AUTHOR> http://www.playframework.org/# <comment><USER2> When I did a bit of Play 1.2 dev, I ran into two serious annoyances.

First, static actions make for untestable code. The only way to test this in 1.2 was to do full integration tests. You can't unit test controllers/actions, which to me is a horrible "opinion" to have. Looking at the docs, 2.0 [appears] to make an attempt via the callAction helper [1], but you still can't inject dependencies via a constructor and call instance methods. Static members in static languages make testing a real pain.

Second, JSON felt like a 2nd-class citizen. Dealing with JSON in either the request or the response felt barbaric. I don't see that they've improved things. Auto binding from a JSON request to an object should exist without having to write a bunch of custom JSON serializers...doubly so for outputting json.

[1] [http://www.playframework.org/documentation/2.0/JavaFunctiona...](http://www.playframework.org/documentation/2.0/JavaFunctionalTest)

<comment><USER3> I can't agree more - I've been doing a non-trivial bit of scala work in the past six months, and the part that seems the most lacking to me is JSON support. Every scala JSON library I've used (spray-json, sbjson, lift-json and the like) requires you to define a concrete serializer class for every single type you would like to move across the wire. I really miss the ease of use of reflection-based parsers like Jackson. I've alleviated a bit of this by writing a generic serializer that uses Jackson under the hood, but that requires every class to use a java bean pattern, and not the more elegant scala case class (or frankly plain old scala object) patterns.

There's a project called Jerkson that is attempting to fix this, but I'd like to see all the major scala frameworks just settle on something good and simple and go from there.

<comment><USER4> You might want to check out lift-json again. It can easily serialize and deserialize case classes. [https://github.com/lift/lift/tree/master/framework/lift- base...](https://github.com/lift/lift/tree/master/framework/lift-base/lift- json/)

Also, Play 2.0 includes Jerkson, so whatever Jerkson can do, Play 2.0 can do. They just happened to add some helper utilities that made it very similar to lift-json. So I think the community is settling on something good and simple.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I am really excited about this but also a bit worried that Java will become a second class citizen for Play development.

The typesafe deal, use of SBT and other scala tools, and the overhead of maintaining docs and bindings for 2 languages all seems to point to an inevitable deprecation of Java at some point.

Hopefully not?

<comment><USER6> I partially disagree, especially with backing from Typesafe.

The "engine" benefits from Scala, as a highly concurrent and transactional heavy system. The choice of language for building MVC applications & services on that engine is left up to the developer. The 2.0 mindset, and you see this in everything is very much a best tool for the job balanced with flexibility and choice.

It's going to take a little while for a language like Scala (or any JVM based language) to fully penetrate the market. A lot of Java developers are not there yet, and by a lot, I mean most, who are we kidding. I see more shops embracing the JVM as their "stack" and the right language for the job mindset on top of that foundation. It's flexible, conservative, and forward thinking at the same time.

Play fits nicely into that space and is something that the core team appears to be mindful of. In fact, if they're smart about it, Play could end up being a bridge for Java developers interested in making the transition to Scala, at a pace that makes sense for them.

<comment><USER7> > It's going to take a little while for a language like Scala (or any JVM > based language) to fully penetrate the market.

By a wide margin, the overall consensus in the JVM community seems to be that Scala will probably never be more popular than it is today, which means, it will never become mainstream. Hopefully, one of Ceylon or Kotlin will succeed where Scala failed.

With that in mind, Play betting on Scala is quite a risky direction indeed.

<comment><USER8> Not saying you're wrong, but says who? Can you point to evidence of this consensus?

I'm seriously asking, not trying to challenge you.

<comment><USER7> It's just that most of the curves have remained flat. Look on job boards, language rankings, github stats, or even the Scala reddit, which is a ghost town.

Taken in isolation, these numbers don't mean much but when you start putting all the evidence together, it's hard to make a case that Scala is growing at all.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Sorry for being "rantish", but most of the "negative" comments I'm reading around here are from people who didn't spend a single second reading the manual.

Yes, I'm not partial, I'm invested on Play, but I am because it has a wonderful documentation that makes life really easy (that plus StackOverflow).

Most of the complains in here come from people with almost no experience in it. No, a small side project of 6 hours is not "experience". You just toyed around. You can't know about the real issues or benefits related to a framework.

Please, I know this is "the internet", but in a site like Hacker News, couldn't you try to talk only about things you know?

</comment><comment><USER10> It's also now part of the Typesafe stack - here's the release announcement from the typesafe blog: <http://blog.typesafe.com/introducing-play-20>

<comment><USER11> Not much of a fan of the new Typesafe Stack. It doesn't seem to install the scala, play and akka command-line tools like the old versions did. Is there a way to get a straight Scala REPL, or does everything have to go through giter8 and sbt now?

<comment><USER8> You can get it directly from scala-lang.org:

<http://www.scala-lang.org/downloads>

<comment><USER11> I was aware of that, but it seems silly to have a separate installation of Scala just for the REPL when the stack includes most of the important stuff already.

I guess that I'd be better off just using the individual components instead, for now. With the new version it feels like they've switched from being a fairly plain "distribution" of Scala/Akka to more of an opinionated tool set based on giter8 and sbt. That's a pretty big jump, and I'm hoping that the lack of command-line support tools is something that's fixable once things are settled a bit.

<comment><USER12> Then are you just asking how to get a Scala REPL using sbt?

If so, you can get one by entering the command 'sbt console' in a project directory. This will give you a scala console with the added bonus that all of the files in your project will be loaded as part of the REPL's classpath.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> For anyone interested in its claim of being reactive, as I was, the Play framework does not appear to support reactive programming [1].

From their samples and documentation, it looks like an event-driven server without any reactive aspects. I'm fairly sure they're mistakenly calling typical event-driven programming "reactive". This is backed up by the statements of Typesafe's CEO on the subject in an interview [2].

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactive_programming> [2] [http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/12/playframework- typesafestac...](http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/12/playframework- typesafestack)

<comment><USER14> Or just read the play documentation <https://github.com/playframework/Play20/wiki/Iteratees>

<comment><USER13> Which indeed is talking about stream processing. Play's stream processing uses iteratee IO to correct control inversions often suffered by networking libraries.

However, Play does not offer automatic facilities for having variables (and interface) update when other variables change, as described in the Wikipedia article. For examples of reactive programming, see Knockout, batman.js and Ember.js (all primarily client-side).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Can anyone talk about their experiences of using Play 2.0 and Lift, if they've used both?

<comment><USER16> Last summer I evaluated Lift vs Play 1.x and was leaning heavily toward Play. I wrote some toy apps in each. We chose Lift only because it turned out that Play was incompatible with our Maven setup. (I have heard it has improved in 2.0 but I have not looked into it myself.)

I found Play to be fairly intuitive and it matched my mental model pretty well. It was lightweight compared to Lift and the other Java frameworks I looked at. Play 2.0 seems to have made improvements in the areas I found weak in Play 1.x. i.e. modularity, Scala support (specifically for continuations)

Lift is a fairly heavy framework, but you can ignore big parts of it if you need to. In Lift it took me a while to grasp the HTML transforming concept, partly because the documentation seemed to out of date. It felt both cumbersome and elegant at the same time. Sadly I didn't get very far on the project so I have no idea how Lift has changed/improved since then.

Today I would choose Play in a heartbeat if it fit the parameters of my project.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> I find that testing has improved quite a bit since actions now return a Result object that you can inspect in your tests. It is true that you cannot inject a mock data repository, for example, but Controllers are meant to be simple HTTP response generators and you might want to make them call some domain object to perform anything complicated. You can then unit test you domain object to your heart's content.

</comment><comment><USER18> give Play 2.0 a try guys, it's a fresh new framework, more robust than ever, and with awesome concept for handling Input/Output.

<comment><USER19> That way of handling io is indeed snazzy, and a port of ideas from some Haskell libs, but it's worth pointing out that on the Haskell side there's been a bit of innovation in allowing more direct style Apis for iteratee libraries

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> and a shiny new play framework site <http://www.playframework.org/>

</comment><comment><USER21> and fucking crazy big doc <https://github.com/playframework/Play20/wiki>

</comment><comment><USER22> personal wish: this, with CRUD scaffolding and GAE support, will make Play my dream framework.

edit: this news announcement from Typesafe explains a bit more about Play 2.0: <http://blog.typesafe.com/introducing-play-20>

</comment><comment><USER23> Their beta was incredibly buggy, riddled with compilation performance performance, slow load times, was really not a fun experience. I've heard they finally got development load times in check. I hope they get their deployment process a bit better then creating a zip file and having to run nohup on their start script.

<comment><USER24> It got to be pretty stable at RC3. I agree the beta was poor in a number of areas, but I've been consistently using the latest from GitHub for months now and would recommend you give it another go with this final release. They deployment story is the same, though I've filed some feature requests around this and I imagine this will be improved by the community as more people start using v2.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Off topic a bit, but it's a good place to complain:

Typesafe,

Please don't be a tool. Take your "whitepapers" out from behind an email registration page.</comment>


Microsoft and Toyota Team Up to Bring the Internet to Your Car  - <AUTHOR> http://newsgrange.com/microsoft-and-toyota-team-up-to-bring-the-internet-to-your-car/

<comment><USER2> I wish I could get a car with a place to securely mount an iPad or Android tablet and supply power to it. They could leave out the stereo, mapping, and big display and let me use whatever device I choose.

I currently use my Android phone to play music and make phone calls through a Bluetooth-FM adapter in my car. I just got a Bluetooth-OBDII adapter (eBay, $20) and the Android Torque app (<https://market.android.com/details?id=org.prowl.torquefree>) which can show just about any operational parameter of the car - speed, fuel pressure, coolant temp, trouble codes, etc. There are only a few things I can't do through the Android - control the temperature and turn on the headlights. That and having a good place to mount the Android is the only thing missing now.

</comment><comment><USER3> When I read this title I get hopeful for the following which probably won't happen -Buy a car, get 3 years unlimited free 3G internet for your car -Hot spot capabilities -Access to TV (for the back seat) and Radio apps (Pandora in the car!)

Although technically only the first one is necessary since most people get the second two plus many more from having a smart phone with a data plan.

<comment><USER4> I would bet that will happen with Google android devices which will be coming integrated in high end vehicles, such as the Tesla S1000. Then hopefully, these will trickle down the stack to mainstream vehicles.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Surely nothing can go wrong with this development.

</snark> On a more serious note, how many times have we heard such things, and why has it taken so long? People have been using crappy GPSes for quite a while now, and more recently _their cell phones_ to do things the car manufacturers have known about for years, but done nothing to support.

</comment><comment><USER6> Seems like this is a mis-step in the smartphone + tablet era. Do I want a computer in my car or do I want a dock for the computer I already carry around with me everywhere in my car?

P.S. Considering that the big cost of either system is the 3G phone plan and that people tend to replace the hardware of the computer they take everywhere significantly more frequently than they replace their cars, I think it's pretty obvious which option makes more practical sense.</comment>


Google Stores Your Old Passwords - <AUTHOR> http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2011/12/google-stores-your-old-passwords.html <comment><USER2> Doesn't quite make sense to me. Probably, they are just storing the hash. Isn't it?

</comment><comment><USER3> This is pretty common practice from a security standpoint. Many password security policies deny you the ability to reuse past passwords.

It seems scary to the layman, but I'd imagine that Google is using secure, non-reversible encryption on passwords, so it's a non-issue.

</comment><comment><USER4> The end of the article, the post confirms that Google stores a hash of the password. Very misleading from the title of the article.

</comment><comment><USER5> When you change your Google account password, if you enter one of your previous password you will see a warning like "You can't set a previous password". That's right, impossible to set one of the password your used in the past.

And Facebook does the same. I've already seen "You tried to use an old password. It has been changed a few days ago.".

</comment><comment><USER6> Nowhere in the quoted text it says that they store password. Account recovery page doesn't ask for it. I think they just store the time of last password change.

<comment><USER7> It may be possible to interpret the quoted text in the manner you specify, but the article's author has clarified in the comments that the notice only appears when an old password is entered.

quoted: "It looks like you've attempted to sign in using an old password." (Specifically: not "an incorrect/wrong/invalid password", but "an old password".)

comment on article: "Not true. The message is only displayed when you enter an old password."</comment></comment>