Save My Life: an update (Celiac biopsy negative) - <AUTHOR> http://savemylyfe.blogspot.com/2010/07/celiac-biopsy-negative-bloodwork.html

<comment><USER2> As said in the previous writeups, the only really conclusive test is "Don't eat wheat for 3 weeks, then pig out for a meal. You'll know a few hours after that."

This isn't just experience speaking (though it is, my father was at best marginal according to the biopsy but it's definitely celiac based on this test), but also the best current medical research. Biopsies can have problems where they hit a normal stretch of intestine, even though large chunks of it are affected. Quite a bit of research remains focused on just the best way to diagnose Celiac, which is usually not the hard part of a disease, at least after several years of research. :)

If that doesn't definitively make you sick on the pig-out day, it isn't Celiac. Small improvements during those three weeks are modestly positive signs but not really definitive. (In my experience they were mostly within "placebo" range, but how sick I got after my last pizza was not.)

<comment><USER3> Since you're invoking the "best current medical research," can you cite the evidence that says that wheat-deprivation-followed-by-a-giant-wheat-meal is more sensitive and/or specific than duodenal biopsy for Celiac? Since you skip around this detail, what is the telltale sign that occurs a few hours after the meal?

I ask because (1) I am inclined to doubt that this is true, but (2) the guidelines always lag the latest evidence, so if it is true then it wouldn't be in the guidelines anyways.

<comment><USER2> Best medical research is a bit coy on this front; they keep trying to make lab tests and such, but what you'll find is that all the lab tests aren't definitive. Biopsies aren't definitive, and like I said, I've got personal local evidence to back this up, though you can find that tidbit everywhere. The blood serum tests aren't definitive as discussed in the last discussion, and overlap with other conditions even when it does show there. The genetic tests aren't definitive because they remain unsure exactly what causes it. (There are ideas, don't take that to mean there's _no_ clue, but they aren't _sure_ yet.)

What it comes down to is that the best way to find out is to just _do_ it, but, well, as much as I love Western medicine in general it seems to be a bit hesitant to recommend that, they'd rather have a definitive procedure. (Me too, honestly, but if we can't, we can't.) So it's not like I can point to a peer-researched paper. It's just that if you dig into any given test, it's agreed not to be definitive, and the net practical result is that while the best research won't come out and say it, the best way to see if you have it is the trial.

And as CapitalistCartr says, the telltale sign is that you will be sick as a dog, probably well into the next day. I experienced headache (or migraine, if you prefer, _bad_ headache), nausea, the feeling of my intestines pulsing, and general lethargy, but I don't know that that symptom list is "official". What I am sure about is that there will be no mystery left. We're not talking "moderate chance of loose stools", we're talking "don't make plans for the next day".

<comment><USER3> The tests for Celiac are extremely good. 95% sensitivity and specificity? My life would be amazing if we had that kind of accuracy for every disease.

The bigger problem is probably that people think they have Celiac when they actually have some other real problem that is not Celiac. Mislabeling things is deleterious for patient and physician alike. This is why, unless you actually have evidence to back up your claims about this test, you really should be much more cautious.

If you can point to controlled trials or published works that show that your test is sensitive and specific for -- or even associated with -- _Celiac_ , I'm all ears.

However, I refuse to accept anecdote. Why not? I accept anecdote only in the absence of any evidence. We have actual evidence supporting actual tests that, while imperfect, have known error parameters. The fact that these tests are imperfect does not mean that your imperfect test is just as good; that's a logical fallacy.

Sure, if eating X makes you feel bad, don't eat X; nobody would disagree about that. But don't label it Celiac unless you can show that your home-grown test faithfully diagnoses Celiac and not something else.

<comment><AUTHOR> "The tests for Celiac are extremely good. 95% sensitivity and specificity"

Well my bloodwork came "strongly positive", and the biopsy was negative. So what do we make of that?

<comment><USER3> Your first bloodwork was neither here nor there. Your second bloodwork was positive. At that point, you rightly earned a biopsy. The biopsy is the definitive diagnosis, unless you had been on a wheat-free diet prior to the biopsy (which would cause the duodenum to return to normal). That wasn't the case, right?

Now, the _interpretation_ of the biopsy might not be great. Have you considered asking your GI to send it to (somewhere else of your choosing) to get a second opinion?

 _Edit_ For some reason, your other posts seemed to convey that your GI was not very confident in her biopsy of your duodenum. This does make me a bit nervous. This is why it's hard to play doctor over the internet. If we were in real life, I could probably get a much better sense of whether or not to trust the biopsy. Hopefully her biopsy is at least good enough to prove to an outside reader that she did indeed biopsy the duodenum...

<comment><AUTHOR> I actually did go gluten-free for about 7 days prior to the biopsy (yeah, that was dumb). When I had my GI appointment, she had me go back on gluten for 3 weeks prior to the procedure, which I dutifully did.

She said I was _extremely_ uncomfortable during the procedure, more so for the colonoscopy than the endoscopy/biopsy. I don't think she said outright that it prevented her from getting good samples, but she did say that it might make sense to repeat the procedure in a few months if the genetic test comes back positive, or if the gluten-free diet produces a positive result (of course with appropriate gluten-challenge beforehand). She said that if we do that she'd give me full anesthesia so that she can get further into the tract for samples.

I would certainly consider asking for another interpretation of the biopsy. Do they actually keep them around for that kind of thing? Where would I request it to be sent?

Thanks very much for your insight, carbocation.

<comment><USER3> Not dumb — in fact totally understandable — but yeah, that may confound interpretation of the test. Does your GI doc know this?

I'm not fully versed in the art of asking for another opinion, but I think it would be reasonable to get your doc involved. You could basically say that you appreciate the care she's given you and want to keep her as your GI doc (if true) but you'd also like to get another person to take a look at the biopsy sample, since it is obviously a very valuable and hard to get piece of tissue. I'm sure she could recommend another person to interpret the samples for you. I'm not positive that Celiac biopsy samples are kept, but I know that many other biopsy samples are, which is why I suspect that these are, too. At the very least, they should have images of the samples. Based on her apparent discomfort with the procedure, I'm half wondering if there was a misinterpretation, and I'm half wondering if she was unable to biopsy the right tissue; both of these concerns could be resolved by a third party. It wouldn't be cheap, but it has a small chance of saving you from having to do another biopsy.

That said, in the setting of a one week wheat deprivation diet, interpretation probably won't be totally clear even if you did have Celiac, so a second opinion on these samples may well not be worth it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Tissue biopsy is the gold standard for Celiac diagnosis; the blood tests are used to help determine who needs a biopsy (although it is true that some people think the biopsy is unnecessary). A normal biopsy procedure actually involves multiple biopsy specimens from nearby parts of the duodenum to be taken, so if they followed protocol it is unlikely that they missed the more- or-less pathognomonic signs of Celiac.

That said, if you _do_ have Celiac and the biopsy was wrong (it happens), then your symptoms should actually take quite awhile to resolve. This is because part of the symptomatology comes from the derangement of the duodenum (villous atrophy, etc). Only by allowing it to heal over weeks to months would you expect to see real improvement.

I doubt that you have Celiac, given the biopsy results, but there is truly no harm in trying the diet.

Also, the genetic test is definitely less sensitive and less specific than the biopsy; I'm not sure why your doctor recommended this afterwards.

<comment><AUTHOR> The doctor wants to run the genetic test because if that's negative, we can rule out Celiac. A positive result would only indicate that it's still a possibility. If the bloodwork had come back negative she wouldn't have bothered, and just rule out Celiac then and there, but it was "strongly positive".

<comment><USER3> This is not how the diagnostic chain for Celiac is designed to work. Optimally, you would proceed like so: (a) patient has symptoms consistent with Celiac; (b) patient gets tested for either antibodies (e.g., antiendomysial IgA) or genetics; (c) if 'b' is positive (or sometimes if it is negative and clinical suspicion is strong) then biopsy is performed.

Since the biopsy is both more sensitive and specific than the genetic test, one should not side with the genetic test over the biopsy in most circumstances. The genetic test cannot rule out Celiac. Why? The genetic test looks for specific _common variants_. It cannot discover anything that is not already in the database; therefore, it cannot rule out Celiac for you - it can only make it more likely or less so. (As an aside, this is why treating 23andme as a medical tool can be dangerous. Let's say you have common genetic variants protective for breast cancer -- but, lo and behold, you also have a rare variant previously undescribed in the literature and not captured by the 23andme chip. You actually have a high risk of cancer, but would think just the opposite based on the common variants examined by 23andme. Sorry for the lengthy aside.)

Let's say that Celiac is 100% determined by your genetic variation. It's still possible that there are common variants that cause Celiac, and rare ones. The tests that we have right now only look for relatively common variants, which is why they have varying accuracy in people of different genetic backgrounds but generally are positive in 95% of people with biopsy-proven disease... which gets me back to my main point, which is that you have a biopsy; the genetic test is nothing more than a waste of your money from a biological standpoint. From a peace-of-mind standpoint, I can appreciate why you want this.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the explanation. I hear you on the genetic testing. The whole process is frustrating. I do realize that I sound like that patient who wants to have "disease X" at any cost, and is looking for loopholes in the diagnostics.

But I want to know what's wrong with me, and what I can do to get better. This whole Celiac thing is really starting to feel like yet another dead end for me (Lyme Disease, Fibromyalgia, Sleep Apnea, Psychiatric, etc; just add it to the list.)

Still, I want to give it a good shot, and that seems to mean staying on the diet for a few months and see if I improve. If I feel better, who cares what the tests say? Though it would be nice to have confirmation, I just want to feel better.

<comment><USER3> Yes, as I suggested in another post in this thread, there is absolutely no risk in doing the no-gluten diet (except maybe higher cost of food), so there is basically no downside. Your expected benefit is greater than or equal to zero, so keep it up!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> [http://distractible.org/2010/07/14/a-letter-to-patients- with...](http://distractible.org/2010/07/14/a-letter-to-patients-with-chronic- disease/)

<comment><USER3> This is an excellent letter written by a doctor who clearly cares and who offers several pieces of actionable advice. Thanks for sharing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I had the same symptoms as you about 5 years ago, and it was from having a poor diet and an anxiety disorder (that i did not want to admit I had).

<comment><USER6> I also had some similar symptoms 2 winters ago. Turned out to be anxiety, stress, mediocre diet, and a bit of hypochondria. What finally got me out of the rut was taking a trip to San Diego, spending time with friends away from my commute in the cold/dark hours, and realizing that maybe it was all in my head. It was difficult for me to accept that I could be psychologically messing with myself, but this was ultimately the problem.

<comment><USER7> Congrats for realizing that those sorts of "minor" things can have a significant impact. I think that this guy has something similar, which is why I suggested he go to Costa Rica in the last HN story.

<comment><USER6> Thanks. It all started in some October when I had some sort of bad reaction to something (maybe food) that caused a massive headache/vomiting all day for me. I got pretty worried about the cause. The headaches nagged everyday on through winter and into March (when I finally went to California).

I went to specialist after specialist.. had blood tests, MRIs, etc. The actual headaches were real and not just in my head, as it were -- the search for something that wasn't there was really what brought me down.

And ps- symptom checking online is the worst thing I did to myself (can't stress this enough).

<comment><USER7> Symptom checking online is a huge mistake, I agree.

It's fascinating to think about the role of an "official, correct diagnosis" into the psychological aspect of the suffering.

The most uncomfortable suggestions are those that are accompanied by not reassuring stamp of authority. _What, go to Costa Rica and eat fresh fruit and swim and learn to surf? That's crazy, what I need is a pill... etc._

It's not just health but the experience of feeling/being healthy/unhealthy that is profoundly important.

It's rather humbling how complex the human body (below and above the neck)!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Why would you need to pay for a test? Just stop eating wheat and eat corn tortillas, rice, buckwheat, etc.

1) Have you used a nutrition calculator for 1 week to see if your typical diet is malnourished?

2) Have you tried boosting niacin intake for peripheral tingling?

3) Have you tried increasing intake of antioxidant and antiinflammatory foods such as dark chocolate, turmeric, blueberries, and fresh fish?

4) Do you wake up at the same time every morning?

5) How many grams of protein do you consume a day and what is your body weight?

6) What are the different antidepressant or stimulant medications\supplements you have tried for fatigue?

</comment><comment><USER9> Another diet to experiment with is the No Starch Diet. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence suggesting that starches somehow trigger an autoimmune reaction in some people leading to Ankylosing Spondylitis and possibly others like Irritable Bowel Disease.

It's not an easy diet to follow, but the food test is simple - red iodine turns blackish blue in contact with starch.

</comment><comment><USER10> I have some friends who are very knowledgeable about the Cleveland medical community; I am told that Dr. Tanya Edwards is someone you should seek out, at the Cleveland Clinic. You might have to wait a bit for an appointment, but she's the foremost expert on holistic medicine in the region.

Good luck!

<comment><AUTHOR> That's a good local reference to have, thanks!

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> For what it's worth, I just started taking the Core 5 vitamin set from mercola.com and it seems to really work. I sort of ordered it in a moment of weakness, figuring that it was probably a scam but for 100 bucks it was worth trying for 30 days. I'm only a week in, but I really feel better than I've felt in a long, long time. Which is weird because I was already taking a multivitamin, Omega-3, and 800IU of vitamin D, but I wasn't getting nearly the same effect. Even if it's just a placebo, at $100 bucks a month I'm happy to pay for it if the improvement is sustained.

Anyway I have no idea if there is actually just meth in these and that's why they make me feel so good, or what the longterm safety/efficacy is, but I just wanted to recommend it as an option. It could turn out that you're just deficient in some random thing, and just paying a hundred bucks and taking a crapload of everything for 30 days is a lot cheaper than getting tested for every possible nutrition deficiency, and you'll know within a couple days whether it's working.

<comment><USER12> I have no experience with the mercola.com vitamins; however, I can attest to positive experiences with the (cheaper) vitamin/mineral combination found in the "Alive!" vitamins: <http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009F3RO2/> . Also cheaper (60 day supply for under $30). I, my wife, and my mother-in-law have all had good results.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Did you test for sleeping sickness: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_trypanosomiasis>?

Western doctors rarely check for African diseases.

<comment><USER3> Since the natural history of people with sleeping sickness is to die within four months to one year of onset of CNS symptoms, this seems unlikely.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Have you tried prayer, friend? I'll get you started.

<comment><USER15> Why would this get modded down in light of the topic? People are suggesting vitamins, sleeping sickness, and all other manner of diagnoses and potential cures. I don't see why prayer should any less valid as a topic of discussion.

Besides, what's Celiac disease have to do with technology, startups, or Y-Combinator in general? The whole thing seems far off topic to me.

My 2c: I certainly wouldn't avocate relying on prayer to the exclusion of other remedies, but as part of the big picture, down-modding seems a bit extreme.

<comment><USER16> Prayer doesn't work. You'd get modded down just as much around here for suggesting homeopathy or something.

Plus, suggesting prayer (especially with something like "I'll get you started") is a popular opener to the always unpopular and antisocial practice of trying to convert other people to your religion, which is doubly a dick move when you target vulnerable people, like the chronically ill.</comment></comment></comment>


The Global Helium Shortage Is Real, but Don't Blame Party Balloons - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/16/science/helium-shortage-party-city.html <comment><USER2> Party baloons is a waste of a scarce resource. All users need to limit wasted helium. How do you do this, a high tax on what you use to force careful conservation, so if you return what you bought, you get the tax back.</comment>


Can we Integrate VueJs based component into Knockout JavaScript app? - <AUTHOR> Is this possible ? Background, we have knockoutjs app which we want to have a datatable component which is developed in VueJs. ideas ? <comment><USER2> This should be possible. Add a reference to the VueJS[1] and Vue should be registered as a global variable in your application.

[1] [https://vuejs.org/v2/guide/installation.html#Direct-lt- scrip...](https://vuejs.org/v2/guide/installation.html#Direct-lt-script-gt- Include)</comment>


AppleCare: The iPhone 4 Update Won't Solve the Antenna Problem - <AUTHOR> http://gizmodo.com/5580587/applecare-the-iphone-4-update-wont-solve-the-antenna-problem

<comment><USER2> This is a great litmus test for assessing who actually _understands_ the technology they're using, and who merely parrots what they've read or been told. Anyone who believed that a software update could fix the attenuation issue with the iPhone 4 fails to understand what is really happening when they bridge the two antennae.</comment>


Using GPT-3 for Accounting - <AUTHOR> https://twitter.com/itsyashdani/status/1285695850300219392 <comment><USER2> Angles and VCs are getting way too excited watching twitter GPT-3 demos. Just wait until they discover the magic of prolog.

The AI aspect of this demo is really just NLP. The heuristics taught to GPT-3 could just as easily be encoded in a database.

There would be a lot less magic if these demos showed the prompt they used to prime GPT-3.

<comment><USER3> Isn't that the exciting part? That your average literate person can do things that only a programmer could do previously.

<comment><USER2> Can you give some examples? Most of the fancy demos I have seen would require complex prompts.

<comment><USER3> Perhaps I've been fooled. I assumed the priming was also just casual nlp.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I wish more people had access to their API. Last I checked there was a long waiting line and it was only possible to get if you had a name in the industry.

Hope this changes so amateurs can start such experiments too!

<comment><USER5> You can speed up the process by DMing the CTO of OpenAI (Greg Brockman). Make sure you have a strong use case.

[https://twitter.com/gdb/status/1284144873512173570](https://twitter.com/gdb/status/1284144873512173570)</comment></comment>


Ask HN: How do you track your daily productivity? - <AUTHOR>

I am creating an app and I need to be able to allow users to measure their productivity at any given activity.  Since I code I am starting with that activity and I would like to understand all the ways people track their productivity ie: velocity, github commit activity, lines of code etc....
Thank you in advance for any help you are able to provide.
Note: My no noprocrast setting only allows me 10 min of HN a day so I will not be able to respond until tomorrow. <comment><USER2> When I was contracting, I used FreshBooks to manage billable hours.

Now, I judge it by items checked off my todo list. Sometimes I use the Pomodoro technique, which is an excellent tool for keeping focus. When using the Pomodoro technique, I tally the number of pomodoros for each task, allowing me to get a good sense of my productivity with the added benefit of helping me understand how long each task took.

</comment><comment><USER3> I use rescuetime.com, manage several todo lists in Bento and also keep a journal using something called Dayone.

In terms of code, Versions tells me how fast I'm going, but nothing like Basecamp to track a project's progress. Hope that helps you.

</comment><comment><USER4> If your productivity can be mechanically tracked, sooner or later you will be replaced by someone more productive or, at least, cheaper.</comment>


Things Your Competition Can Teach You - <AUTHOR> https://www.forbes.com/sites/stephanieburns/2020/02/02/why-you-should-love-your-competition <comment><USER2> One thing I learnt from my 'competition' was that code quality really does not matter to end users, whether the code is clean and perfect or a spaghetti mess, so long as it works end users don't know or care.</comment>


One more Chatbot this week - <AUTHOR> https://hub.zenbot.org/doitbot <comment><AUTHOR> And yes, we start the week with one bot that can help you to remember everything in a simple way through messengers! WDYT?</comment>


MesaLink: A memory-safe and OpenSSL-compatible TLS library - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/mesalock-linux/mesalink <comment><USER2> A while back I wrote a "Cryptographic Right Answers" document that recommended people use BoringSSL if they could get away with it, otherwise stick to OpenSSL. Today, I'd write "just use OpenSSL". It's a different, better project than it was just a few years ago, and it gets _much_ more attention than alternate libraries.

If you're already using Rust, this looks neat. I'm not sure OpenSSL API compatibility is that much of a win? But if you're porting C code to Rust, sure.

<comment><USER3> I agree that OpenSSL is likely the most robust library out there, and if you're talking about provisioning your web server / doing some https from a high-level language then it's definitely the sane choice. (fwiw, I had some work looking at a BouncyCastle TLS server and...eek)

The one counter-example is the embedded space, particularly where code addition/modification for hardware integration is required. Here OpenSSL's footprint and APIs are a tad unwieldy compared to some alternatives.

Basically I just wanted to give mbedTLS a shout-out as, IMO, the clear winner in that particular space.

<comment><USER4> Also notable in embedded: bearSSL (free) and wolfSSL (commercial)

<comment><USER5> Note that wolfSSL is also open source (GPLv2) and you don't need commercial license to use wolfSSL.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I laud your efforts. Whenever someone announces a project like this one, one of the top comments is invariably one that promotes Openssl over other TLS implementations.

I find this "leave it to the experts" attitude unjustifiable, since it more or less translates to "trust the experts". Experts? Take a look at the source. Look up the scrolls of bug reports. Experts indeed.

This tends to hurt efforts to create Openssl alternatives, and makes crypto/security protocols seem like the black art of a chosen few.

Security is hard - all the more reason to encourage more people to be involved. And in any case, experts have to start somewhere.

</comment><comment><USER7> FYI: some benchmark numbers at [https://gist.github.com/kevinis/ca7fa432af076a5f3330c7e39daf...](https://gist.github.com/kevinis/ca7fa432af076a5f3330c7e39daf27fc)

</comment><comment><USER8> The Reddit discussion[0] corresponding to this.

0: [https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/89aiyw/mesalink_a_mem...](https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/89aiyw/mesalink_a_memorysafe_and_opensslcompatible_tls/)

</comment><comment><USER9> I love seeing projects like this and I hope that a sane alternative to OpenSSL emerges.

A big dream of mine is that we'll eventually have a comprehensive and hyper- detailed set of automated tests that we can use to validate cryptographic libraries [0]. Someday I hope that every new CVE for a cryptographic library will also come with a corresponding automated test to check for that vulnerability.

Footnotes: 0: Wycheproof is the closest I've seen to this ideal yet: [https://github.com/google/wycheproof](https://github.com/google/wycheproof)

<comment><USER10> There is an ongoing project [0] implementing a formally verified and performant TLS1.3 library. They already have verified and optimized assembly for AES and SHA256. I think it will be a big game changer if it succeedes.

[0] [https://project-everest.github.io/](https://project-everest.github.io/)

<comment><USER9> This is great, thanks for sharing it!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Honestly the number of TLS library implementations is growing a bit too much for my taste. so far the playing field is

boringssl: Googles pet TLS implementation forked from openssl. Google has been a member of the US PRISM program since 2009

Mesalink: Baidus pet TLS implementation. Baidu is beholden to the Chinese government.

openssl: Patched and functional TLS implementation. Open source and sponsored by --but not controlled by-- many government organizations.

libressl: functional fork of OpenSSL.

What is anyones impetus to switch?

<comment><USER12> Many people have far less to fear from e.g. Chinese government than e.g. 5-eyes governments.

Frankly though this is a pretty shallow criticism. It's open source. Identify all those backdoors you just know are hiding in plain sight. Then we can either PR or fork it.

<comment><USER13> If reproducible builds are not used for these projects, it is not easily possible to verify whether end user distributed binaries are equal to the available source code. Never mind that in many cases actually replacing the SSL component may not be possible.

<comment><USER14> it's rust code, you can't even compile it without downloading a binary from the internet.

<comment><USER15> mrustc successfully bootstrapped the compiler; you could compile this with nothing but a C compiler and some elbow grease if you truly desired.

<comment><USER14> mrustc is stuck at 1.19.0

<comment><USER15> That doesn't matter for the purposes of bootstrapping; it's broken the chain. 1.19 -> 1.25 is much, much, much easier than the thousand-odd builds you'd need to bootstrap from the OCaml implementation.

This is why I mentioned "elbow grease." It's not trivial, but if it's something you're concerned about, it is possible.

<comment><USER14> sorry for being ranty on HN, I'm abusing my anonymity to vent.

please support a bootstrap method. I can't use any project in a programming languages that require downloading a specific binary to use in certain setups.

It's not a hyperbole to bash rust, we're crazy people who make sure our projects can be bootstrapped like so. I was very interested in mrustc. but it's going to die very quickly when every version bump is an extra rust (it took me 9 hours to build rust at some point).

Having to give up projects because they threaten to use rust is painful. It's a good language and someone went out of their way to fix the bootstrap problem. please give him a hand.

<comment><USER15> Every project has to pick what problems matter, and can be addressed with the current resources at hand. People, time, servers, whatever.

At this time, there's just not enough people that care at this degree of paranoia; all of the Linux distros are fine with this, even Tor is fine with this. I can appreciate that something like this would be more convenient, but that's a teeny, tiny group of people this would serve, and it would be so, so, so much effort to put in. It just doesn't make sense. (Given that you're anonymous, I don't know who exactly you're asking for here.)

> but it's going to die very quickly when every version bump is an extra rust

It doesn't need to live; by existing it's already broken the boostrap chain.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> > Safe and fast crypto implementations from Google's BoringSSL

I'm a little confused, is this a wrapper on BoringSSL?

<comment><USER17> My understanding is that MesaLink uses the low-level crypto from BoringSSL (transitively via ring) and the high-level protocol code from ring, which is written in Rust.

Most memory safety problems in TLS implementations come from the higher-level protocol code, not the implementations of the raw crypto primitives. In fact, the latter benefit from being written in as low-level of a style as possible to mitigate timing attacks.

Edit: Brian Smith has an authoritative comment here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/89aiyw/mesalink_a_mem...](https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/89aiyw/mesalink_a_memorysafe_and_opensslcompatible_tls/dwqjdyo/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> I'm glad this exists, and I'm sure it's very useful for organisations large enough to put engineering effort into adopting it, but it seems to me that the real win from Rust is going to look more like its use in Firefox: incremental replacement of code in an already-widely-used project, rather than an attempt at a full reimplementation.

Of course, nothing's stopping MesaLink becoming that replacement in a larger user of OpenSSL. But I doubt I personally will benefit from it any time soon.

</comment><comment><USER19> Anybody know the ratio of OpenSSL bugs related to memory management compared to "normal" bugs, TLS state machine weirdness, compiler optimizations, etc.?

<comment><USER2> I don't but I'd be surprised if it was too far from 1:1, at least if you narrow it down to the exploitable bugs.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Part of: [https://github.com/mesalock-linux/mesalock- distro](https://github.com/mesalock-linux/mesalock-distro) "MesaLock Linux: a memory-safe Linux distribution"

</comment><comment><USER21> I don't understand why s2n doesn't get more love. It's a TLS implementation in just ~10,000 lines of code! And Amazon is behind it.

</comment><comment><USER22> That's cool.</comment>


Show HN: Walletjs – A little library to handle money amounts - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/dleitee/walletjs <comment><USER2> Are there issues to resolve?

<comment><AUTHOR> See this page: [https://github.com/dleitee/walletjs/issues](https://github.com/dleitee/walletjs/issues)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> nice job!!!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks</comment></comment>


Why Scala? - <AUTHOR> http://www.slideshare.net/al3x/why-scala-presentation

<comment><AUTHOR> Close the ads to see the text at the bottom</comment>


Ask HN: Did we learn anything revelatory from yesterday's tech CEO testimony? - <AUTHOR> I'm wondering if anyone watched/read all the testimony and if there was anything interesting or groundbreaking that we didn't already know?  Or was it all just grandstanding from the politicians? <comment><USER2> I didn't read all of it, but I didn't see anything major in the parts I did read.

Most of these congressional investigations are pedantic fluff, questions to garner political points with constituents, and well rehearsed answers/talking points. With the level of coaching CEOs at that level receive, both in general communications and relationship management as well as specific coaching for the investigation, there's almost no chance of anything truly earth-shattering coming out.

Maybe I'm just a sad, jaded individual contributor...

<comment><AUTHOR> Nowadays you're probably right. I remember when the big tobacco execs came up, that's when we learned that they had previously known about the ill effects of smoking.

I guess these days CEOs are better prepared to dodge those kinds of questions.

<comment><USER2> Didn't they all lie and say they didn't think tobacco was addictive? I thought it wasn't their testimony that revealed anything, but they used the hearings to show the scientific studies and testimony of underlings to prove it was a lie.

<comment><AUTHOR> I could very easily be misremembering or remembering a movie and not real life.

<comment><USER3> You might be thinking of _The Insider (1999)_ , though that film was mostly faithful to the real life story behind the _60 Minutes_ investigation.[0]

What you were probably thinking of can be found at 2:00 in the video below. Seven tobacco industry CEOs testifying at once, affectionately referred to as the "seven dwarfs".

 _The Insider_ is in my opinion excellent, and highly recommended.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_-Vu8LrUDk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_-Vu8LrUDk)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> One thing that stood out to me was each CEO declaring their unwaivering support for the police and US military when pressed by Republican members. It was presented as a false dichotomy of course, but none took a stand of hesitation towards that support.

This goes contradictory to what they've communicated to their employees as of late.

I understand they can be speaking in false promises but it was interesting to see them all tow the line when asked.

My question now is, how do the employees of these companies feel about the public position their CEOs took yesterday on that?

</comment><comment><USER5> In a nutshell they answered "I don't agree with that characterization" or "I don't remember, can I follow up with your office?" to a lot of the questions. Followed by waffling on about their mission statement until being interrupted with the next question. To me it came off as a group of CEOs giving long winded non-answers. Not much substance.

</comment><comment><USER6> There's no interest in anything regulatory from the Senate and POTUS beyond symbolic hearings and memos.

</comment><comment><USER7> They lie</comment>


San Francisco to Tax Google Buses - <AUTHOR> http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/01/06/san-francisco-to-tax-google-buses

<comment><USER2> Why was the title changed to remove the quotes around "Google Buses"? As if SF is taking one company, and not all private bus operators?

Changes like these, in addition to WSJ's own wording, can give a reader a very different impression than the article itself.

From the piece, a few important things that would seem to belie the title:

"State law limits such fees to the cost of providing a service or policy" (This indicates it is a usage fee, not a tax)

"Google released a statement on its "shared goal of efficient transportation in and around San Francisco," saying, "We believe the pilot program is an important step."</comment>


Immigration and IDs: A Modest Proposal - <AUTHOR> http://www.newsweek.com/id/237950/output/print

<comment><USER2> Aren't 'Modest Proposals' supposed to be satire? Maybe I'm asking a lot of the modern news consumer...</comment>


Programming Languages - <AUTHOR> https://www.coursera.org/learn/programming-languages <comment><USER2> I've taken this course and it's excellent, all three parts.

It makes me wish there were a modern standard ML, without laziness, typeclasses or Object Oriented-ness.

<comment><USER3> Well, given that OCaml almost doesn't use it's optional Object Oriented-ness, that might be what you're looking for.

<comment><USER4> > Well, given that OCaml almost doesn't use it's optional Object Oriented- > ness, that might be what you're looking for.

so... you use OCaml without modules ?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> For anybody looking for a similar-ish syllabus with different material, Matthew Flatt's introductory programming languages course is available online at [0]. It's in Plait (formerly PLAI-Typed, a smaller dialect of Racket) and was really a great class, in my opinion. (I took this as a junior at the U.)

[0] [https://pubweb.eng.utah.edu/~cs3520/](https://pubweb.eng.utah.edu/~cs3520/)

</comment><comment><USER6> Took this course when I started moving towards software development and I thought it was great. It has a higher academic level then most introductory courses and its been great for developing intuition about the craft

</comment><comment><USER7> How much is it? (It seems like there is no way to see without creating an account - yuck)

<comment><USER8> it's free. you can pay for each part to get a certificate or just take it for free.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> As a (serious) hobbyist, I thought that class was fantastic.</comment>


Lock-Free Data Structures (2004) - <AUTHOR> http://www.drdobbs.com/lock-free-data-structures/184401865

<comment><USER2> Raymond Chen had an interesting series on lock-free algorithms a while back [1].

[1] [https://www.google.com.au/search?q=%22lock- free+algorithms%2...](https://www.google.com.au/search?q=%22lock- free+algorithms%22+site%3Ablogs.msdn.com%2Fb%2Foldnewthing)

</comment><comment><USER3> Here's the follow-up article: [http://www.drdobbs.com/lock-free-data- structures-with-hazard...](http://www.drdobbs.com/lock-free-data-structures- with-hazard-po/184401890) Which deals with ensuring deterministic destruction (and thus bounded memory use) with lock-free structures.

</comment><comment><USER4> I remember the article quite well, as it was passed around our office when it was first published. The author gave multiple presentations on the topic around that time.

There is a lot of genius in the article and references, but I will say from experience it is very easy to implement these approaches incorrectly, so unless an application requires the performance benefits provided, it is probably still a better bet to use standard locking mechanisms.

<comment><USER5> > but I will say from experience it is very easy to implement these approaches > incorrectly, so unless an application requires the performance benefits > provided, it is probably still a better bet to use standard locking > mechanisms

I find the entire concept of implementing novel container data-structures _specifically for your application_ kind of ridiculous. This sort of thing should be implemented exactly once--in the language runtime library.

<comment><USER6> [http://concurrencykit.org/](http://concurrencykit.org/) is what you want.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Why couldn't the last reader delete the old map?

I guess the problem with this implementation is it requires _a_ last reader for every write. If there are always readers, the second Update will block.

      // infogulch's lock-free implementation of WRRMMap
      template <class K, class V>
      class WRRMMap {
         Map<K, V>* pMap_, * pGC_;
         unsigned readers;
      public:
         V Lookup (const K& k) {
            unsigned r
            while (r = readers, !CAS(&readers, r, r+1)); // increment readers
            V ret = (*pMap_) [k];
            while (r = readers, !CAS(&readers, r, r-1)); // decrement
            if (r == 1 && pGC_) { // last reader. garbage collect
                delete pGC_;
                pGC_ = 0;
            }
            return ret;
         }
         void Update(const K& k,
               const V& v) {
            Map<K, V>* pNew = 0, * pOld;
            do {
               pOld = pMap_;
               delete pNew;
               pNew = new Map<K, V>(*pOld);
               (*pNew) [k] = v;
            } while (!CAS(&pMap_, pOld, pNew));
            // DON'T delete pMap_;
            // wait for the GC spot to be open, set it
            while (!CAS(&pGC_, 0, pOld));
         }
      };

(Meta question: ok to put this much code here?)

<comment><USER8> Sample set of one answer to your meta question: You could always just use a public gist, however I hope to never see the day where people have a problem on HN with a bunch of interesting code being posted.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Also relevant and covers these topics in greater depth: [http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2492433](http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2492433) [http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2488549](http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2488549) [http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2490873](http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2490873) and [http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2513575](http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2513575)</comment>


Norwegian butter crisis (2011) - <AUTHOR> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_butter_crisis <comment><USER2> One of the things I hate most about living in Norway are the food prices and selection. The government allows two main cooperatives: Tine - milk and dairy products, and Nortua - meat products, to monopolize the market, and maintain high tariffs that prevent foreign foods from offering price competition. This allows farmers to maintain small, inefficient farms that produce rather substandard products (Norwegian beef is about as tasteless as you can find).

For dairy, a smaller company Q started about 15 years ago and is probably helping to keep milk prices down a bit since Tine actually has some competition now, but not nearly enough to bring prices down to what you would find across the border in Sweden, for example.

Unfortunately the grocery store situation doesn't help much either. The largest company - NorgesGruppen - controls almost 40% of the grocery stores. The bulk of the remainder are owned by two others. There is very little price competition, and the selection is still very limited, although it is starting to get a bit better (I've been living here almost 7 years now).

If you live close enough to Sweden, and have your own car (or have friends who go frequently), you can save a ton of money on food and alcohol by heading across the border and doing your shopping there. Unfortunately, it's about 1.5 hour drive from Oslo, so I don't have an opportunity to go very often. It's a funny thing, Norwegian politicians tried to pass going over the border off as a "low class" act, and there's even a derogatory term "harrytur" to describe it, but it's still something that everyone does, regardless of income, simply because the price difference is so great.

<comment><USER3> Things must be bad if you go to Sweden to buy cheap alcohol...

When visiting friends in Sweden they always ask us to bring beer (from Denmark).

<comment><USER4> I recall seeing a photo of Finns either boarding or coming off the ferry between Finland and Estland with trolleys stacked with cheap alcohol (just enough per person to get under the tax quota most likely).

This was over at /r/europe i think, so eventually someone quipped that the same alcohol would make its way to Sweden and Norway, with relevant markups for each hop.

And i wonder if said tasty beef was restaurant served or home cooked...

<comment> semi-extrinsic I know a few Norwegians who have cabins just across the border in Sweden, and they will take an annual road trip to Estonia or Poland or wherever, fill up the car with super-cheap alcohol and take it back to the cabin in Sweden, and then bring the allowed (tiny) quota back to Norway every time they go to the cabin.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> As a swede I remember this, some entrepreneurial swedes smuggled truckloads of butter over the border and sold through craigslist-esque resale markets for massive profits (we're talking 10-50x the Swedish price). According to Norwegian customs it's illegal to import diary products into Norway, thus rendering the butter smuggling illegal but highly profitable.

Swedish newspapers wrote a lot of articles about this bizarre situation and selling butter to Norwegians became a rather common joke in Sweden during this time and the following year.

<comment><USER6> In some world views, going around legislation ("smuggling") for financial profit makes you a criminal, not an entrepreneurial, person.

<comment><USER5> Who says that you can't be an entrepreneurial criminal? I wouldn't see them as contradicting terms.

<comment><USER6> Nobody, it's just that especially around here "entrepreneurial" carries positive connotations as far as I know, and I just wanted to point out that all kinds of profit-making perhaps aren't equally awesome.

<comment><USER7> what is wrong with smuggling? Especially with the kind of smuggling mentioned here? In that situation it was a very victimless crime and one can see how it was even beneficial to the public.

<comment><USER8> Smugglers don't pay import tariffs. From the article:

> Shortages persisted as a result of high import tariffs on butter to protect > the domestic dairy industry against foreign competition

<comment><USER9> Import tariffs are the crime, then, not the smuggling.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Growing up in British Columbia in the 90s, it was a pretty common thing in college to cross the border at Blaine (there was a Grocery Store right on the other side of the border, and was one of the few American places that took Canadian currency without blinking), and we always brought back lots of milk and butter.

BC, of course, had fairly strict dairy quotas. So, in a province with abundant farmland, Milk/Butter/Cheese were expensive enough that was worth a trip across the border to stock up.

<comment><USER11> The Chevron at truck crossing in Blaine still sells butter, huge amounts of it. As an American, it floored me the first time I saw it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> It was actually really bad, as most Christmas cakes require a lot of butter. It felt quite ridiculous that the shops were suddenly rationing butter to a pack per customer in December. You would have thought it was war times. Some friends abroad even gave me butter for Christmas, which was supposed to be a joke but was actually really useful haha.

<comment><USER13> Yeah I remember this, we just made our own butter. Shared a butter recipe on my facebook wall - instant hero.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> They should talk about the 2014-2015 butter crisis in Japan, where the butter completely ran out from the shelves because of stupid local JA (Japan Agriculture Mafia) restrictions imposed on imports and even inland, across- region exchanges of butter. Pure market control madness at work, resulting in people being unable to get their hands on butter for several months.

<comment><USER15> I have been to Japan twice during this time and, as a tourist, didn't really notice any of this. Is this why seemingly all the butter in Japans restaurants is imported from Australia?

<comment><USER16> The current butter crises is not as bad as the previous ones. While my local grocery store regularly has a sign saying "butter sold out nationwide" the 7-11 down the street seems to have some and the bakery next door is using a lot of butter in their products.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> For many more "weird" articles, see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Unusual_articles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Unusual_articles)

<comment><USER18> My favorite: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu_War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu_War)

<comment><USER19> I'm not into computer graphics but the Utah teapot article [0] reminded me why I carry the kettle back into the kitchen by the handle while spinning it around to get a look at it at different angles.

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_teapot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_teapot)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> The most funny thing about this butter crisis, is that the producer actually fucked up a batch of 60 tons of butter in August. Sure they were quick to blame external factors, when the truth was that they fucked up.

[https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=no&tl=en&u=h...](https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=no&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bt.no%2Fnyheter%2Finnenriks%2FTine- starter-leveranser-av-feilprodusert-smor-2636321.html)

<comment><USER21> > The dairy industry estimated a deficit of 500 to 1000 tonnes

Sounds like 60 tonnes wouldn't have made much difference.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Japan is currently in the middle of one of these due to a hot summer last year. It is not as bad as the Norwegian one, however it is not the only one in recent memory, either - there was a butter shortage in Japan in (IIRC) 2008 as well.

<comment><USER23> Frankly, it feels like we've had butter shortage for the past 5 years. It's ridiculous...

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> Dear Norway. We stand ready to hook you up intravenously. You just say the word.

Sincerely, Denmark. The Lurpak country.

<comment><USER25> I wouldn't eat Lurpak butter if you paid me. I agree that more competition would be good but not at the expense of destroying the Norwegian policy on agricultural self sufficiency.

Anyway Lurpak is from Arla which occupies the pretty much same sort of position in Denmark as Tine in Norway.

The crisis was not really a great disaster and at the time there really were not a lot of people calling for deregulation.

And as for the complaints about food being expensive, well to some extent this is a national sport just like Brits complaining about the weather, that is, not to be taken seriously. I'm English and have lived here in Norway for 30 years, almost half my life now so I well acquainted with both.

If food were too expensive it would be impossible to sell. Even the cheap supermarkets here carry half a dozen brands of extra virgin olive oil for example; and the variety of bread available here in even the smallest supermarket outstrips most British hypermarkets, etc.

<comment><USER4> > The crisis was not really a great disaster and at the time there really were > not a lot of people calling for deregulation.

Yep, it just fit the opposition party line of EU good, independence bad. And the press jumped on it as a "look how shitty our nation is" story.

Never mind that the previous months had seen the very same press lauding a high fat diet...

In the end it was pretty much a media created tempest in a teapot.

<comment><USER26> I didn't follow the mainstream press at the time and didn't even notice it happening. Had no butter problems at all. I only noticed it after the fact, because relatives talked about it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Colbert did a nice report on it - [http://videosift.com/video/Colbert-on-the- Norwegian-Butter-S...](http://videosift.com/video/Colbert-on-the-Norwegian- Butter-Shortage)

<comment><USER28> I haven't watched that in a long time. Was the laugh track always so obvious?

 _Sentence. Ha ha guffaw ha ha! Sentence. Ha ha guffaw ha ha! Sentence. Ha ha guffaw ha ha! Sentence. Ha ha guffaw ha ha!_

It's like trying to watch the Mary Tyler Moore show:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihLJrcS8lsg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihLJrcS8lsg)

<comment><USER29> It's filmed with an audience (which Colbert regularly speaks directly to). I don't think it's a laugh track.

<comment><USER4> I swear they have a "laugh" sign behind the camera that said "audience" has been trained to follow.

<comment><USER30> That's just a typical US TV audience, the crowd freaks out at the slightest thing. The people who make the shows are probably grateful for the padding, but it's grating for viewers who aren't used to it.

<comment><USER4> Dunno if it is only US. I swear i have noticed this with British shows as well.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Did the price of cream also skyrocket? Would it have been cheaper to make your own butter?

<comment><USER32> Interesting question, don't know why this was downvoted. Making butter is really easy using a stirrer.

<comment><USER33> Since it was a milk shortage, I think it's reasonable to assume that cream was also rarer, though I suppose it might not have been subject to the same import restrictions.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> I'm pretty sure the phrase "butter crisis" was invented by the tabloids. I would use "shortage", from how I experienced it -- but that doesn't produce nearly as good "first world problems" satires I suppose.

<comment><USER4> It may be some 30 years old, but it still describes Norwegian media perfectly:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwegca0MhfQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwegca0MhfQ)

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> Takes me back to the heady days of the 1970s UK sugar crisis

[http://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2010/jul/09/archive-r...](http://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2010/jul/09/archive- rationing-sugar-shortage-looms)

It's when a lot of people stopped having sugar in their tea. Probably improved UK health and dental health no end.

</comment><comment><USER36> When a government has to chose between a strong political constituency or the people having access to food, be it a rich or poor society, the choice is hard.

<comment><USER37> I was in Norway twice during the crisis and my preferred brand was available in the first shop I went to, both times. But my preferred brand is expensive organic butter ("rørossmør", FWIW).

Maybe I just happened to visit the shop on the right two days. Or maybe the crisis wasn't severe enough to make people buy the more expensive alternative.

<comment><USER4> Or some just didn't bother to insist on using butter.

First i heard of this "crisis" was when i walked past the TV...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> Tommy did a nice report on this, from the trenches - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub0GzU56YMA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub0GzU56YMA)

</comment><comment><USER39> Even though Norway is not part of the EU, it is quite dependent on it for all sorts of reasons. This is an example where the Norwegian government tried to stop that through high import tariffs on butter, and it backfired.

Because of its small population and northern location, it essentially has to import much of its agricultural products from the EU, and thereby accept most of the EU regulations and academic degrees without having the slightest say in the matter.

</comment><comment><USER40> Some people blamed it on the "Lavkarbo"-diet (low card, high fat) that was trending in Norway at the time. [https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=lavkarbo](https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=lavkarbo)

<comment><USER41> They should just switch to Crisco, and other trans-fats like the U.S. ... I'm joking really, as an American the concept of a butter shortage is interesting considering most of this market uses heavily refined, flavored, perfumed vegetable oils.

I switched to only using animal or cold-pressed fats a couple years ago... It's helped some aspects of my health a lot... though I still crave starchy carbs...

<comment><USER4> You're thinking about margarine?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margarine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margarine)

Yeah, most "made do" with that. It was just a combo of diet fad, holiday "traditions", and media looking for anything "controversial" to talk about...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> Cows, grazing ... do they export some of it? The milk from grain fed animals is bland.

<comment><USER43> It is not uncommon in Europe for cows to feed mainly on grass. We don't have the corn lobby (we have other ones instead).

<comment><USER44> I don't know about the 'mainly' part. North of the Alps, the grass only grows in the summer, south of the Alps, it only grows in spring and fall. If their cows fed only or mainly on grass, dairy pastures could only support small herds, and dairy would be a very expensive luxury item.

<comment><USER45> [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d2/Hay_bales...](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d2/Hay_bales_and_mountainside.jpg)

<comment><USER4> As one overly creative tourist guide supposedly put it, marshmallows for trolls.

<comment><USER46> We usually call them tractor eggs.

<comment><USER45> I've never heard that nickname before today.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> >As a result of the butter crisis, Norwegian retailers lost an estimated NOK 43m.

That's practically a rounding error. That's 21 suburban houses.

</comment><comment><USER4> A stark reminder of how zombified the nation has gotten when a diet fad and a holiday ritual is able to cause such a ruckus...

<comment><USER45> This was the same year that Utøya happened. You can't be in super-serious mode all the time.

Based on this thread, you take the _labelling_ of this shortage much more seriously than anyone ever took the shortage itself.

<comment><USER4> Because contextual jokes translates poorly online.

Lets not hand Fox News headlines on a platter...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> At the same time the EU (Norway stayed out of that party) was distributing its surplus butter mountains to the poor.

<comment><USER48> I believe Jean-Baptiste Douemeng, a French communist, made millions exporting subsidized surpluses, including butter, to communist countries in the 40s-50s: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean- Baptiste_Doumeng](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Baptiste_Doumeng)

<comment><USER49> So was he an "enterprising communist", "entrepreneurial communist", or "criminal communist"?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> I'm searching for a video of The Daily Show about this butter crisis. Who knows where is it?</comment>


A tech boss with designs on the global fashion industry - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.com/news/business-33731149

<comment><USER2> Hi Hendry! It's Josie Tam from the video. About the standardisation, we are already working with selective professionals from the industry and improving.

</comment><comment><USER3> "her app to standardise design communication"

Pity there is no actual standard work AFAICT from their Website.

</comment><comment><USER4> AFAICT...lol..we definetely need to standardise..well done Josie :)</comment>


When Global Warming Kills Your God - <AUTHOR> http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/06/when-global-warming-kills-your-god/372015/ <comment><USER3> I highly doubt that the Yup'ik fishermen are even contributors to global climate change, but we expect them to then completely stop fishing the waters they have fished for decades because of change we're largely to blame for?

From forced settlements to fishing bans, we're _still_ forcing our will on indigenous people.

Edit: the religious argument does seem a stretch to me, and wouldn't be necessary if common sense was used.

<comment><USER4> "We're largely to blame for.." Are we?

If humans cause climate change and industrialization began around 1850, then logically, there'd be an exponential and consistent increase of global temperatures. Al Gore himself said that, in five years, the polar ice cap would be ice-free.. and he said that 7 years ago. There hasn't been warming for almost 18 years, yet CO2 emissions (especially from China are still increasing.)

The facts are very clear: CO2 increased, temperatures have not. Another fact: the climate changed long before humans were around to drive Escalades.

The AGW movement is nothing more than an anti-capitalist false flag with a professed desire for wealth redistribution. Al Gore, for example loves the environmental movement so much because he became a multi-billionaire as it's Chicken Little. Those who still follow the religion of human-caused global warming are like a bunch of elderly Soviets nostalgic about Stalin's First Five Year Plan.

Ottmar Edenhofer, a UN official with the IPCC said, "One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole." In that same interview he made the case that "climate change" policy was more of an anti-globalization policy than actual environmental policy.

Greenpeace cofounder Dr. Patrick Moore, who would presumably know more about environmentalism than almost anyone reading this, rejects the climate-anti- capitalism hysteria that has co-opted the "old" environmentalism of reducing pollution, whaling, overfishing, nuclear waste and other, more pure protections of our environment.

Let the downvoting begin! I am always amazed that within such a smart bunch as HN readers, that there is still a large number that ignore critical scientific analysis and instead let political or ideological beliefs cloud their otherwise rational minds. It's almost religiously intense. Rarely do I see a balanced debate on the subject of human-caused climate change. It's like telling Christians that Jesus wasn't resurrected.

<comment><USER5> I couldn't have said it better my self. Global Warming is the biggest scientific fraud since Galileo got into trouble with the Catholic church over the idea that the earth is not the center of the Universe.

<comment><USER6> I hate to break it to you, but Galileo was not a fraud.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Globar Warming is definitely contributing to this process, but I think some people are definitely trying to fight natural processes which would have happened anyway. Sure, it's sad that a village or a road got taken by water - but that would have happened eventually anyway, right?

In Poland there used to be a church build right by the sea on a cliff - <USER2> the sea has eroded the cliff(as seas do), and now only one wall of that church stands, on a tiny piece of land , and which is getting further eroded every single year. Yet because the church(or rather, those few bricks of the last remaining wall) have a religious significance to some people, millions of zlotys are spent each year trying to reinforce that one remaining bit of rock. Why? The cliff erosion is a completely natural process which was bound to happen. And there are even people who say it's "work of god" that the wall is still standing - while to others it's completely clear that only massive reinforcements that are built with hard cash are keeping it standing.

<comment><USER8> > Sure, it's sad that a village or a road got taken by water - but that would > have happened eventually anyway, right?

That's not the point of the article anyways. I think we can agree that the Yup'ik people understand that their villages are going to disappear and that they will have to move. Traditionally they were nomadic people as it was, although they don't really have many choices as to where to go these days.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> If global warming is killing your god, it may be time to find a new god. After reading the description of Yup'ik religion in the article, all I can say is that their perception of what is necessary to do is not the only possible response to the situation that faces Yup'ik people in that place. The environment has been changing throughout the existence of human beings (we know from archaeology that humankind has lived through ice ages and some major changes in sea level already), so human beings will have to go on being adaptable to face the changes that are inevitable in the environment, and think with sound judgment about how to keep some kinds of changes from happening, if that results in the best trade-offs for humankind. Religion can not be exempted from that general process of human beings reality-checking their own thinking to see if their adaptations to their environment (and adaptations OF their environment) are successful or not.

<comment><USER10> This is about much more than religion. The western approach to life is to work at a job to earn money to pay for food an shelter. The subsistence approach is to spend much of your time hunting and gathering, and maybe some of your time working for money.

Many people are so far removed from the subsistence approach, that they can't relate to what these people are going through. Asking these people to stop fishing and move to a place where they can find other work is the cultural equivalent to telling everyone on HN to stop working in tech-related fields, and go find something else to do. Sure you could do it, but it would take part of your identity away. When your two-year old kid looks up and asks why you're not doing something your people have done for thousands of years, that's a hard question to answer. The Yup'ik people, and all other people who lived subsistence-based lifestyles responded to previous environmental change by finding a different area to live their subsistence lifestyle. That is not really an option. The move away from subsistence is much more drastic than many people can fully understand.

My perspective on this is shaped by having moved to Alaska 12 years ago, and knowing many people who live a subsistence lifestyle to varying degrees.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I was hoping the title would refer to, you know, _our_ tacit "God": our unrelenting faith in gratification through material consumption; essentially unbounded and ever-accelerating growth; and the idea that we can safely ignore any non-human impact this pursuit of "happiness" may have (or for that matter, to future human generations).

<comment><USER12> What does consumerism have to do with religion and spirituality? Seriously, what's the non-hyperbolic connection?

<comment><USER11> Consumerism _is_ the de-facto spirituality for many people in the West.

And that's a fairly non-controversial statement to make; no hyperbole, there.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> "The Yup´ik way of life is non negotiable."

Sound familiar?

</comment><comment><USER14> Great Point

</comment><comment><USER15> CO2 is poisoning salmon. Stop it!

</comment><comment><USER16> Yawn. Someone will have to update the list:

[http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm](http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm)

<comment><USER17> I have to wonder about the wits of someone who thinks that something can't be true, because it causes _so many_ problems.

<comment><USER18> The list doesn't seem to imply that global warming isn't happening; just that people are pretty quick to blame things on it.

<comment><USER19> That's a great point that needs to be made. Science reporting sucks.

Sadly that particular version of the list was created by someone who thinks climate change is bunk and the list is a tool used to deny climate change.

<comment><USER4> Actually everyone agrees that the climate is changing. The debate is over whether humans cause it.

<comment><USER20> A near-total majority of scientists who study the climate say humans are causing climate change and the opposition is a mix of people paid by the fossil fuel industry, conservatives motivated by tribal loyalties to make another tedious attack on environmentalists, and would-be contrarians who may or may not realize they've been duped by the previous two groups.

The only debate is how much further death and destruction will be caused by the short-term profit crowd.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Who are attending InOut 2015? - <AUTHOR> I'm reaching out because I'm the Organizer of a student run India's Premier Hackathon at NIT Surat called InOut - (https://hackinout.co/) On the weekend of 31st Oct 2015, more than 300 of the most talented student developers and designers from IITs, IIITs, NITs, DTU and various other technical institutes are going to gather together for 30 hours to build things like mobile apps, websites, and hardware devices to show off their skills. We're stoked to be hosting the first large-scale collegiate hackathon in India, and stepping up the hackathon game with amazing hardware equipment, top industry mentors, and of course involvement with awesome companies. I believe your sponsorship would add tons of value to our attendees. I'd love the opportunity to tell you more about the event and see how we can work together to get your firm out in front of some of the top developers in India. I am attaching media deck for your viewing. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_qi8BzxX1nWcnFxNlQyNzU2eHM/view?usp=sharing)<p>email@example.com <comment><USER2> Seems like a promising event with Google, RethinkDB, Exotel and Github onboard as sponsors already.

</comment><comment><USER3> Are the registrations still open? I would love to participate :)</comment>


Show HN: Creative Commons Lists for Dev Projects (Alpha) - <AUTHOR> https://cctaxonomy.com <comment><AUTHOR> Functional proof-of-concept; I wanted to gauge developer interest before getting too deep.

A project for building lists of things to be used in developer projects (Creative Commons). Think of those times you need data: locations (countries to cities), professional industries and their skills, insurance companies and their plans, etc. Sourcing these data across the internet lands you gobs of CSVs & XLSXs; JSON, SOAP, XML APIs (some costing an arm and a leg!); copy- pasta from Wikipedia... it's horrible. They're data in the public domain, c'mon.

With CC-Taxonomy, anyone can add a list (say "JavaScript Frameworks" and children). The community can add items, vote on items (aka relevant / appropriate), comment, and suggest edits. Most importantly, at any time you can download any list's latest in various formats (JSON implemented, CSV & YAML pending).

If it's something you're interested in, make an appearance - it's open source, and could use help! Also, the name is bad :) Suggestions?</comment>


Announcing Rust Language Server Alpha Release - <AUTHOR> http://www.jonathanturner.org/2017/01/rls-alpha-release.html <comment><USER2> Rust's IDE story is starting the year off with a bang. :) It's taken me until now to realize that the protocol is semi-standardized: [https://github.com/Microsoft/language-server- protocol](https://github.com/Microsoft/language-server-protocol) . Are Rust and Typescript the only two languages with implementations of this protocol so far? (EDIT: nevermind, found [http://langserver.org/](http://langserver.org/) , which implies there are quite a lot of these.)

I'm also fascinated to hear that it's using _both_ Racer and rustc to provide autocomplete. Is there any long-term plan to provide "quick and dirty" info from the compiler itself rather than from Racer? EDIT 2: Ah, the final paragraph addresses this. That's what I get for commenting before I'm done reading. :P

<comment> 404-universe Are there any implementations of the language server protocol for vim or emacs?

<comment><AUTHOR> [https://github.com/tjdevries/nvim-langserver- shim](https://github.com/tjdevries/nvim-langserver-shim)

[https://github.com/sourcegraph/emacs- lsp](https://github.com/sourcegraph/emacs-lsp)

(linked from the langserver page)

<comment><USER3> As someone who had worked on language support in IDEs for the past 5 years, it's really great that we have finally arrived to the point of getting common protocols. IDEs have historically been very self-contained, each with its own ecosystem, resulting in a lot of unnecessary duplication of effort. Now, at last, we can do neat things that are immediately usable across the entire language ecosystem at once.

Better yet, we can have language designers implement support themselves, ideally using the same code that powers their compiler. Historically, tooling support has been the single biggest stumbling block for new languages, no matter how promising. This should significantly reduce the barrier to entry for that, and make new languages more viable as a result.

The fact that it can also be used to "light up" hardcore editors like Vim and Emacs is also a nice bonus!

<comment><USER4> > it's really great that we have finally arrived to the point of getting > common protocol

This. Common protocols is what has helped us independently, incrementally and exponentially make the internet more useful.

If we can (finally?) get this lesson learned down to the application level, computing may finally start advancing conceptually once again.

Right now we've been in a rinse/repeat standstill iteration for god knows how many years.

But I guess everyone is too busy trying to get rich building the next big closed service to consider fundamental issues like that...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I really like this approach from the dotnet world but with one caveat. The language server assumes a project layout and doesn't allow for any variation from that. This has problems when you're generating code, say a web service interface or some lexx/yacc source. I like these to go in my build output (because they're build artifacts not source material), but AFAIK you can't tell the language server to also look at these files.

Another example is when you want to share code between projects without a seperate dll, like with a client/server model. Easy enough to do with make et al but not with a language server.

Neither problem is insurmountable though.

<comment><USER6> While yes, it can be a pain, I love that rust makes it _hard to be a special snowflake. It promotes everyone following set conventions and makes it easier to grok other peoples work.

_ rust's powerful macros are an exception to this, I guess.

<comment><USER5> Is there a convention for the placement of generated code?

<comment><USER7> Yes. Cargo supports build.rs scripts that build code into a special directory reserved for code generation, IIRC. The cargo people generally think this sort of thing through.

<comment><USER5> Ok, I checked it out ([http://doc.crates.io/build- script.html](http://doc.crates.io/build-script.html))

Would have been much better if you could tell it the dependencies instead of having to use yet another make clone (and a bad one at that) though.

<comment><USER7> > Would have been much better if you could tell it the dependencies instead of > having to use yet another make clone (and a bad one at that) though.

It's not intended to be used like make, with lots of shell scripts in a Makefile.

Instead, you write all the actual build code for a given task _once_ , and package it in a Rust crate, which can then be pulled as a build-time dependency.

So, for example, there's a cmake crate ([https://docs.rs/cmake/0.1.20/cmake/](https://docs.rs/cmake/0.1.20/cmake/)) that handles any project using cmake. If you just have one of two glue files written in C, you use the gcc crate ([http://alexcrichton.com/gcc- rs/gcc/index.html](http://alexcrichton.com/gcc-rs/gcc/index.html)), which—despite the name—can also handle other C compilers on other platforms. And if you need to generate code for a perfect hash function, you use phf ([https://docs.rs/phf_codegen/0.7.20/phf_codegen/](https://docs.rs/phf_codegen/0.7.20/phf_codegen/)). And so on. If you run into some other kind of common pattern across many projects, just write and publish another crate, and call it from build.rs.

These libraries typically do a lot of work to handle things like cross- platform compatibility.

If you already assume the programmer (1) knows Rust, and (2) might be running on either Linux, MacOS or Windows, this sort of interface is much more convenient than requiring them to get Makefiles and shell scripts working, and to handle per-platform compiler invocation issues, etc.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> > types on hover - get the type of a symbol

Does it get me the the type of closure arguments in the middle of chained method calls? That's what I'm currently missing from other tools.

<comment><USER9> It should yes, if it doesn't then its a bug that I should fix...

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> With this general direction languages are taking with openly accessible compiler and language services, I wonder if RMS will ever reconsider his service-hostile approach he has forced onto GCC.

When every language and every editor supports this protocol, who's going to want to use GCC for anything, when it's as closed (and thus relatively useful) as a brick?

<comment><USER5> I'm not sure how the GPL effects anything here. This is a local service, not an internet service. And the GPL doesn't cover the output of GCC at all. This also doesn't actually produce the end binaries.

<comment><USER10> It's not about the GPL. Historically, RMS has opposed any effort to make intermediate outputs of GCC available (e.g. the AST, type information, or even having a stable plugin API). On the basis that it would then be used to build closed-source products that use GCC as a service, rather than those products contributing to GCC. It _might_ have been prompted by earlier efforts by Apple to make an Objective-C compiler built on GCC that isn't GPL-licensed, which obviously ran foul of the GPL. Ironically, that's why Apple invested in clang and why today we have the rich clang/llvm ecosystem.

<comment><USER5> Is there anything in particular it's missing? Some quick searching shows that GCC produces a number of intermediate outputs.

<comment><USER11> As I understand it, its not as bad as it once was, due to the existence of LLVM & Clang.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> How does this compare to YCMD[0]?

[0]: [https://github.com/Valloric/ycmd](https://github.com/Valloric/ycmd)

<comment><USER13> That uses "racer" for rust I think. It looks like Rust Language Server also uses racer + some other stuff.

<comment><USER14> The other stuff is rustc's metadata.</comment></comment></comment>


Clinton to upset Obama? - <AUTHOR> http://www.scriptoriumdaily.com/2008/03/08/why-obamas-happy-time-is-over/

<comment><USER2> I know this forum isn't about politics, so I really shouldn't even comment here, but...

How can the frontrunner upset the cinderella?

<comment><USER2> And then I get a down mod because someone disagrees with my political opinion? Haha. News.YC is definitely not the place for politics.

<comment><USER3> Sorry, dude. I will also downmod you. It has nothing to do with your political opinion. It has to do with the fact that it is political. Wanna post about politics, go to reddit. I'd like this place be clean of it myself, and I will use the tools that were made available to me to do it.

<comment><AUTHOR> I thought this piece was an interesting political analysis that avoided pushing political hot buttons. Plus, I figure a lot of people here like Obama and would find it interesting. But, anything political is automatically controversial, so oh well.

<comment><USER4> "I thought this piece was an interesting political analysis that avoided pushing political hot buttons."

Maybe.

Hacker news?

Nope.

<comment><AUTHOR> I thought it would fit given that Obama seems to be the in candidate with the tech crowd.

<comment><USER5> Well don't encourage that ;p</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>