Google to Acquire Nest - <AUTHOR> http://investor.google.com/releases/2014/0113.html <comment><USER3> Am I the only one who thought "well, good for the Nest guys" followed by "too bad, it looked like a good product"?

<comment><USER4> Yeah, motorola products have completely gone down the toilet after that acquisition. They were so great before with fast updates and a wonderful skin of android, and now they're either non-innovative or way too overpriced for the value.

<comment><USER5> Yeah, and like Android and Youtube. Sarcasm aside, Google has actually done pretty well with acquisitions compared to other companies. (Say ones that begin with "M" or "Y").

You can see the list in wikipedia: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisition...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Google)

<comment><USER6> YouTube was fine when Google wrote checks and got out of the way. Now Larry and co. have their hands all over it and YT is slowly going to shit... from the G+ spam to the annotation spam and of course you need to sign in to keep them turned off (lol maybe!), to "hey let's make you rebuffer the whole video you just watched" to just horrid performance drops in general to "hey we found a way to make YT comments even worse".

I can't feel that we'd be much better off if MS had decided to lose billions on YouTube along with Bing and Google had pressed ahead with Google Video as a legitimate competitor.

<comment><USER7> "hey we found a way to make YT comments even worse"

Could they get any worse? Seriously does any normal thinking person really participate and contribute comments in that quagmire? I sometimes I thank Google and Yahoo for creating those honey pots for the internet brain-dead to vent their steam and vitriol, keeping them well away from stuff I like to constructively participate in.

<comment><USER8> Actually the comment quality on the videos I watch seems to have improved markedly since the G+ integration...

Coincidence? No clue... Still, all the "OMG G+ will destroy youtube!1!" whining is looking pretty stupid...

<comment><USER9> I agree... it is still horrible, but it seems to be slightly less horrible now.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Given Google's history with acquisitions, as a Nest owner, I'm not thrilled to hear this. Hopefully they let it run as independently as possible.

<comment><USER11> Google always shuts stuff down. Which is just a big laugh when its an internet application, but not so funny when its your thermostat. Anyone know what happens when GOOG shuts off the Nest system? Hopefully the thermostat reverts to at least a simple dumb mode rather than shutting everything off?

<comment><USER12> I doubt Google would shut down a $3,200,000,000.00 acquisition.

<comment><USER13> Please don't include decimals on that kind of number, it's intellectually dishonest.

<comment><USER14> ? Only if you're incapable of telling the difference between commas and periods, I suppose.

<comment><USER13> It isn't _factually_ dishonest, because it is an accurate number, and anyone can make sense of it.

I say it is _intellectually_ dishonest because it reads to me as a clear attempt to make the number appear more impressive.

Borrowing from Wikipedia, "intellectual honesty":

       Facts are presented in an unbiased manner, and not twisted to give misleading impressions

It would still be accurate to say it was a $3,200,000,000.000,000,000,000 valuation, but I hope you will agree this is misrepresenting information.

<comment><USER14> Eh, guess we're going to agree to disagree there. Dollar figures having two decimal places at the end is pretty much a standard. If they included 3, yeah, that would reek of shiftiness. On top of that, all of the press releases I see don't even include the full amount written out, just "$3.2B".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I'm happy for Nest but sad for myself, given the smoke detector was my Christmas gift last year.

Previously I would look to YouTube as an acquisition done right. But after the kerfuffle around G+ integration, I no longer feel that way.

If I have to sign in with my G+ account to manage my smoke alarm, it's going directly into the rubbish bin.

If Apple had bought Nest, on the other hand, I'd feel very differently.

<comment><USER16> Had Apple bought nest, you'd have to log into your icloud account to manage it, via your idevice, with no other management abilities available. Apple is absolutely horrible at playing well with others.

<comment><USER15> I'm ok with that. My issue with Google isn't Single-Sign-On, it's forcing every product into a social-network mold.

Although I'm a happy user of Facebook and Twitter, I think SV's social obsession has largely been fruitless. Social does not improve most products and can actually harm them.

And now I'm worrying about how "social" is going to be slapped on to my fire alarm.

<comment><USER16> You missed my point. If apple controlled nest, you'd almost certainly only get notifications if you were using an idevice of some sort. Apple's terrible about working with others to create industry standards; the AppleTV for example would be a lot more useful if it used DLNA for streaming instead of Apple's proprietary format.

<comment><USER17> I think you're missing his/her point. The problem nostromo has is not proprietary formats but social networks. I think the worry is updates like "John Doe turned the temperature in his house to 75!" (and while that fear is overstated, it's not unreasonable to not want products that can detect the presence of humans in your bedroom connected to social networks).

<comment><USER4> Google+ doesn't really have to be a social network. There's nothing social about my use of G+, and I use it pretty frequently.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> The cynic in me shudders at the possibility of Google adding even more real- world data like temperature preference and lifestyle factors to their massive data portfolio.

The idealist in me is incredibly excited at the possibility of Nest's fundamental strengths being bolstered by Google's coffers.

<comment><USER14> Am I the only one that doesn't get chills up their spine whenever Google breaks into some new market? I see very little possible misuse of temperature preference (of all things...) and very great possible gains.

The more intimately a service knows you, the more personalized and relevant data it can bring.

And another thing, I am really sick and tired of tempering or being told to temper my enthusiasm for some new technology or some novel use of existing technology just because it might be misused. Just about every technology that's wide-reaching enough has abuse potential. That is not an excuse for ludditism! Deal with the abuse instead of hamstringing the tech.

<comment><USER19> What about the ability to know when someone is in your home and when someone is not?

If Google records that data (say, to be able to provide you with a handy chart of your energy use and some ways to improve it), the potential I am more worried about is the fact that the data exists makes it possible to subpoena.

<comment><USER20> Exactly. I don't care if the government knows when I'm home (they can already figure that out), but imagine if Google's database of Nest info got leaked.

Burglars could look at the database and say "Oh hey, look, no one's home right now."

<comment><USER21> Do you really think burglars could not get their hands on leaked government agency database?

This is just another excuse to throw feces at Google, and HN commenters just don't miss any possible opportunity to do that.

<comment><USER22> strawman and goalposts. PP said google's database, not government databases.

google data breach in last 30 days: [http://money.cnn.com/2013/12/04/technology/security/password...](http://money.cnn.com/2013/12/04/technology/security/passwords- stolen/)

inside job at home security company in last year: [http://www.wbng.com/news/state/198129651.html](http://www.wbng.com/news/state/198129651.html)

<comment><USER23> Calling that a Google data breach is a pretty big misrepresentation; keyloggers installed on user machines collected passwords typed into a number of websites, including Google's.

(disclaimer: I work for Google, have no special knowledge of the incident in question)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> "Google Inc. (NASDAQ: GOOG) announced today that it has entered into an agreement to buy Nest Labs, Inc. for $3.2 billion in cash."

Can that be right? $3.2 billion? That's a crazy huge sum.

<comment><USER25> They have paying customers. It matters.

<comment><USER26> Nest has customers who have paid it, it does not have paying customers. There is no ongoing fee despite every device Nest sells being connected to its servers 24/7/365\. It takes no more than ~3 seconds for any changes you make on their web/mobile apps to reach the thermostat, so it has to be at least checking in with a server constantly.

<comment><USER27> Surely the updates are sent via some form of push. Polling on that scale would be obscene.

<comment><USER26> Yet that's what I believe it does. Every few seconds, Nest sends an HTTP POST to their servers with its serial number. If there are any commands waiting for that thermostat (change temperature initiated from an app for example), they get sent in response, otherwise the connection is closed.

<comment><USER28> That's the client pulling, not the server pushing. Pushing would be "when the owner makes a change on the website, notify the appropriate thermostat to change its settings". This would be way more efficient, but too many Nests aren't going to have suitable internet connections.

<comment><USER26> Perhaps you misread "yet" as "yes". I'm curious if there's a power issue as well. I don't know how fast wifi can turn on/off and reconnect to a network. Nest has to be low-power as its only power source is one of the tiny wires from the HVAC system and that doesn't supply enough to run the device offline, let alone online. It uses that wire to charge an internal battery instead.

<comment><USER28> I did make exactly that misreading; sorry!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> k-mcgrady Very surprised Apple didn't purchase this. Headed by Tony Fadell, brilliant design, I thought it would fit and be a nice diversification for them. However it will be very interesting to see what Google does with this. If I put away the cynic in me for a moment: the more data Google has on me the better their services are for me. I could imagine the Nest thermostat integrating with Google Now and the location data Google has on me for example to better now my comings and going.

<comment><USER29> Perhaps Google bought them because Apple did try to make a bid. Hence the inflated price...

<comment><USER30> Apparently Google was the only serious bidder and Apple was not in the mix. Source: [http://recode.net/2014/01/13/google-acquires-nest- for-3-2b/](http://recode.net/2014/01/13/google-acquires-nest-for-3-2b/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Seriously not trying to troll, but could someone help explain where Google might see 3.2 billion dollars of value in a company that pretty much just sells a successful thermostat?

<comment><USER32> Google's core competency: know everything. Look at anything Google does from that perspective.

Each Nest will feed data (anonymized, of course / _cough_ /) back to Google so they'll know home heating patterns, heck, home usage patterns (it watches activity and proactively & predictively adjusts for when people are/aren't around). Feed vast amounts of that data into the cumulatively large (no adjective does it justice) data mining process and they'll know that much more about [m|b]illions of people & locations.

US$3.2B? In the USA alone that works out to $0.003 per person per day over 10 years (assuming everyone has a Nest device in the long run; optimistic calculation, but sets the ballpark values).

<comment><USER33> Integration with Google Now would seem like the logical next step.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> Please, please Google... don't spam me about starting a Google+ account when I'm just trying to turn the temp down a few degrees. I beg you.

<comment><USER35> And I beg all HN users to stop doing Google+ jokes as they're just as unfunny as they're unoriginal.

<comment><USER17> I'm not convinced they're as much jokes as real concerns by people who have already been burned by this (see: YouTube -- I'm not going to argue about whether or not G+ integration has made these products better, but it's not unreasonable to not want your real-name associated with comments you made under a pseudonym, and to be so annoyingly pestered to do so!)

<comment><USER36> Google+ is Google's social layer. Commenting is an inherently social activity and it makes sense to have a common layer i.e. G+ here to handle them. Changing the temperature is not a social activity.

So no the jokes are not real concerns and are mostly silly intellectually lazy exaggerations.

<comment><USER37> God forbid

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> FYI Google Ventures participated in 2 of Nest's funding rounds, including leading their series C last year.

I can't say exactly if/how this affects the acquisition but it does feel like some of the money is just traveling in a circle.

</comment><comment><USER39> Smart buy in my opinion. The connected home has enormous untapped growth potential, and they just acquired a company that managed to take something as mundane as a thermostat and make it cool.

<comment><USER40> At least there's a cost savings angle to an intelligent thermostat.

The connected smoke alarm as a cool object really amazed me - it's where new business models are made.

<comment><USER41> Exactly. Walk the aisles at your local home improvement store. Find every product that you interact with that is under $20. You can probably make that amazing for $50-100. And what's that in terms of how much people spend on houses?

<comment><USER40> It would be a fun list. Humidifiers have always annoyed me.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> Someone at google is thinking of ways to use Google Plus to fuck up Nest.

<comment><USER43> Has google hired a lot of MBA's recently, because it look an awful lot like they are trying to cross-pollinate their main business lines, to improve vertical integration and uptake.

<comment><USER44> It sure does. Hopefully they can find a way to optimize the backwards overflow which is sure accompany these changes.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> Argh, I was just about to buy some Nest Protects, but I don't want Google sensors built into my house.

<comment><USER46> Agree. sometimes it feels there is no escaping google's watch

</comment></comment><comment><USER47> It's awesome for the folks at Nest, but the first thought through my head was this : I am so starting a smart lawn sprinkler controller company!

<comment><USER48> Oh please do. Irrigation systems have the clunkiest, most error prone interfaces I have ever used.

</comment></comment><comment><USER49> $3.2b makes me think there has to be some awesome technology that they own or pipeline, as I can't get excited about the thermostat. It is a great idea, and played with one a bit, but it isn't solving any large HVAC issues - <USER2> thermostat is simply an on/off switch for the real working hardware in your basement/outside.

So, what else do they do that makes Google want to pay $3+ billion (pinkie to lip) for Nest?

<comment><USER50> They have figured out how to do marketable home automation devices and how to navigate getting them certified by UL and the like.

</comment></comment><comment><USER51> Coming soon: audio ads, broadcast throughout your home via your Nest Protect. Since it knows if you're moving, it can wait and play the ad when it knows you're there, allowing Google to charge a higher cost per impression.

<comment><USER41> Sounds silly, but people pay Tivo a subscription fee every month and they pack that thing full of ads.

<comment><USER14> The only ads on Tivo that I can remember is a single line item on the home screen, and this was almost always for some VOD service.

There was also the thumb integration (you could thumbs-up some ads from either live tv or your recordings, which would pull up a new page with info about whatever was being advertised, occasionally a video), but this is about as unintrusive as it gets (a small icon on the top right whenever a compatible ad is played).

Has this changed in the newer revs? I'm honestly curious.

<comment><USER41> Yep. Here's the ad sales page which goes through all the various options, including showing ads on the pause screen and including ads when you delete a show and in the menu that lists your episodes of a show. It's gross.

[http://www.tivo.com/tivoadvertising/](http://www.tivo.com/tivoadvertising/)

(Your ad blocker may stop that page from working properly.)

<comment><USER14> Auugh.. thanks for the heads up. I can cross a new Tivo off the list of things I want, then. Part of the reason I bought that device was to _skip_ ads...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER52> The Nest UI (web and mobile) is laughable horrible. Only has about 2 weeks historical data. Doesn't record what means a temp was adjusted (web? Phone? Nest?). Doesn't do any sort of trending long term or historical analysis. Charts overlay clicking points so you can see some data. Doing my own analysis it ended up using more energy than my manual changes. So I don't even use autoschedule.

</comment><comment><USER53> It's not a talent acquisition. It's not a move towards more government monitoring. It's not meant to increase G+ sign-ups or sell ads for more efficient furnaces.

It's a play into the growing "connected product" / smart home segment. When you combine google's resources, their current software and hardware products, and the type of products Nest is likely to move on to, you get some strong synergies that Google would be dumb to ignore. A little more discussion on where things could go from here (that doesn't touch on the NSA or government subpoenas) would be really refreshing.

</comment><comment><USER54> Coming Soon: Google+ Integration w/ Your Nest Thermostat

<comment><USER42> No heat for you if you don't upload a profile pic. That will drive up engagement I bet.

<comment><USER13> _I 'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that. Only users who use their real name on G+ are allowed to change the temperature_

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER55> The real winners are DST Global and the others who bought round D and got what looks like a 50% return on $150 million in about 2 weeks.

</comment><comment><USER56> For once I can understand the pricing and think its in fact cheap.

1) Nest has a realistic potential to be in "every" home if not the actual hardware then the underlying intelligence.

2) Nest has a business model that works. People are paing for it and they love it.

3) Combining Google data with Nest access points I can only imagine the awesome things they can come up with and improve. Perhaps the first glimpse at an intelligent grid system.

4) 3.2 is a steal and given that its cash its a good sale.

<comment><USER57> The only way Nest will have on in every home is by aggressively enforcing bogus patents against everyone who makes anything even remotely similar. We should cheer for that?

<comment><USER56> I think you are missing the bigger picture here.

It's not about the thermostat its about the ecosystem its part of.

And I did write "every" :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER58> Oh come on this has to stop. How much would it have cost Google to build Nest from scratch? Not 3.2 billion dollars.

<comment><USER59> It's not the tech, it's the install/customer base.

<comment><USER60> How large is the installed base? It appears to be small for smart thermostats and even smaller for Nest.

[http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/11/02/2877211/smart- th...](http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/11/02/2877211/smart-thermostats- poised-major-market-growth/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER61> I'm really surprised. I thought Nest was Tony Fadell's vehicle to make it back into Apple.

I am going to sit here with a bemused expression on my face thinking of Tony Fadell at data driven Google. I put it 6 months before he is out of there.

</comment><comment><USER62> There's been a product on the market for several years called "TED" ... something seemed fishy when Google killed the data monitoring service ... [http://www.google.com/powermeter/](http://www.google.com/powermeter/). Still ... you have the power (so to speak) to meter your own appliances. Yes you.

Mine is still in the box :(.

</comment><comment><USER63> smart phone > smart car > smart house > ... ? ... > smart human

I for one see great areas of improvement and possibilities inside the common house. Not that I'd wire up _every_ appliance with a Wi-Fi sensor, but some data _can_ be useful, if only for safety (falling asleep with the oven on: here a sensor could cut the power at a certain condition, or trigger the fire alarm, or ring up the firefighters).

Or you left the house and realise you left some of the lights on, just tell the in-car console to open the domotics app, and tell it to shut the lights off.

And the smart fridge, if RFIDs or its successor ever become cheap enough to be able to be printed on a milk carton, you could have your fridge's contents with you wherever you go, just open the app, look what's about to go off, or have it remind you to get extra supplies when you're near a point of interest.

If they'll let me I'll hook up a Nagios server to my coffee machine.

<comment><USER64> I know this makes me sound like a terrible luddite or hipster or both, but I've been thinking about all of these smart devices and services and how they may have a somewhat infantalizing impact on people.

I recently met with some people behind a startup built entirely around generating meal plans for you. I understand that it's a useful service (for some types of people). But I worry about the implication that we are now a species that _can 't even figure out what to eat_ for ourselves.

<comment><USER65> We can figure out what to eat. But it takes time. Imagine that you want to personalize your diet. Take certain ammounts of protein, calories, fat, etc... It would take lots of time if you would prepare a weekly plan for yourself. Thats a good Idea.

But I do feel what you'r expressing, like we need an app to do everything.

But I much rather live with these little apps and have lots of good information than to live completly oblivious to everything like my grandads (kind'of. I still have my hippie moments).

<comment><USER64> I don't know, it might be nudging you to being oblivious in a different direction. Encapsulation is generally about ignorance, and if you have a robot designing your macro-nutrient intake for you, then you can wind up oblivious to what is actually in your food.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER66> The only possible way this acquisition make sense is that Nest has some truly amazing product in the pipeline. It is impossible to justify 3.2 Billion for a team or thermostats. My guess is they wanted to get acquired because some future product make sense to have Google's brand and go to market ability.

<comment><USER67> A friend is currently working for an intrusive home management solution that certain telecoms are to unleash on the unsuspecting Germans. All internet of things stuff, all remote. It will be sold with internet subscription. The root capabilities will be in telco and not the home owner.

I am willing to bet a lot that Nest have either something similar or that google wants to spearhead this market and are scrambling with whatever the cost the know how.

</comment></comment><comment><USER68> So will they shut it down like they did when bought sparrow or bump?

I thought sparrow was great for iOS and OS X. Googles gmail app is not as stable.

Lately I've been concerned about google and privacy this make make me change my mind and just buy a competitors version of a "nest". The price is what has been keeping me away.

</comment><comment><USER69> I wish we lived in a world where Google can be trusted with all of this personal data because they could do lots of interesting things to make lives easier and create more wealth for everybody.

But I have every expectation that this data, if not right away, could someday be sent to the criminal gangs that wear suits and ties that are looking for new targets to loot and plunder.

Just knowing the temperature in your house, cross-referenced with other data about you as well as electricity bills, could be enough for a future police agency to argue probable cause that you're running a drug growing operation and have them do all kinds of raids and intrusive searches and harassment.

This shouldn't be an issue, but Google has earned absolutely zero trust with its obvious non-denials of NSA activity and other negative conduct.

</comment><comment><USER70> Now you can +1 your temperature!

<comment><USER46> oh jesus

</comment></comment><comment><USER71> Google should have negotiated for a $3.141 billion price.

<comment><USER72> The 60 million dollar joke.

</comment></comment><comment><USER73> I have a feeling I'll be ripping the Nest off of my wall in no time.

</comment><comment><USER59> "We've noticed that you're currently freezing your toes off...would you like to search instead for 'HVAC'?"

Fucking creepy.

<comment><USER74> I find this creepy as well. The fact I was considering purchasing one gives me an ill feeling now.

</comment></comment><comment><USER75> I think folks are too focused here on Google caring about the temperature in your house. I suspect Nest's hw/sw/design chops will come in very handy when putting together say the experience of a self driving car?

</comment><comment><USER76> Great. Now I'll have to listen to an ad before my fire alarm goes off.

</comment><comment><USER77> Do they own patents or something?

Because with a $10 android chip, any Chinese plant could churn out Nest clones in a few months.

<comment><USER41> The tricky part is getting it on the shelves at Home Depot or Lowes.

Nest threw a lot of money at Home Depot, if the dedicated end caps I've seen for the last couple of years are any indication.

<comment><USER78> Home Depot and Lowes both sell private-label home automation products. They could buy the equipment from the Chinese and slap their own brands on it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER79> ... I'm glad I haven't bought one yet. Now I need to figure out how to build an open source one.

</comment><comment><USER80> Google offers you 3 billi, you take it. That's what I always say.

<comment><USER81> You wouldn't take 3 billion from someone else?=)

</comment></comment><comment><USER82> Nest has a post on their blog about this as well if you're interested: [https://nest.com/blog/2014/01/13/nest-google-and- you/](https://nest.com/blog/2014/01/13/nest-google-and-you/)

I am not sure why people always say Google makes companies suck. This may be the case sometimes, but it is that way for most companies who buy things if they try to make changes. Just look at YouTube. It has become quite successful, despite some poor decisions.

</comment><comment><USER83> I'm relieved that Apple didn't buy them. In that case, they'd have certainly either a) discontinued the Android version, or b) created a cross-platform app like iTunes.

</comment><comment><USER84> Nest has built an expensive thermostat that is engaging. It certainly doesn't take $80 Million to do that. So perhaps they also spent their money developing a cheaper version after proving that people like it and more importantly proving it can save money and eventually pay for itself.

I would spend a ton of money putting everything on one chip, getting the cost down to $5 or $10 for the same user experience. Maybe put in a cheaper display if needed. Now this wireless device in the house can pay itself off in very short amount of time, making it a super easy decision for consumers. The current offerings of thermostats are clunky and have horrible user interfaces that require modes and buttons and such to program.. forget about daylight savings time!

If people can buy Nest functionality for $50 then google will have a solid foothold in people's homes. From that they can sell camera's that show up through your google TV device and get into the security market.

The dial on Nest is a universal interface, as the original ipod has shown us, perfect for scrolling through menu's and long lists and for changing volume or choosing music. Might as well put a microphone in so people can ask the internet things.

Still not quite sure it's worth $3.2Billion.. perhaps there was a bidding war?

</comment><comment><USER85> Ugh, our industry needs more owners, not less.

</comment><comment><USER41> Well, that should resolve their patent issues.

<comment><USER38> Elaborate?

<comment><USER41> Honeywell sued them. Google must have enough defensive patents to use against Honeywell to make them go away. Terrible, of course, but that's the way the world works.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER86> $3.2 BILLION All-Cash offer.

Is that Color-level valuation for a Thermostat company?

Or more like Instagram-level... Holy Moly!

<comment><USER87> Nest has great hardware designers (which Google lacks) and engineers. Nest first built a hardware/ software platform that enables them to in the future build other smart appliances and home automation tools. The thermostat was simply the first product.

</comment></comment><comment><USER88> I don't know a lot about Nest, but I understand that requests to the thermostat are made from the phone app indirectly through a central server?

What possible consumer benefit could that indirection have?

edit: The reason I ask is that I'm trying to figure out why an exact copy of Nest except that it didn't leak data and didn't require other people's servers to work wouldn't eat Nest's lunch.

<comment><USER89> I used that indirection to turn the heat up for my cat while on vacation, knowing that a big ice storm was coming. Couldn't do that if it only worked on the LAN.

<comment><USER90> Actually puzzled : Why would the cat need it warmer indoors if there's an ice storm? Isn't keeping it at the same temperature enough? Or is the problem because the heating switches off overnight, so you feel that it needs a boost during the day to compensate? Isn't that something that a smart thermostat should cope with?

<comment><USER89> Boosting it means if the power goes out for a few hours and the temperature drops 20 degrees in the house it goes from 70 to 50, not 50 to 30.

Protects the pipes, too.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER91> well, stick in a fork in Nest then.

wonder how bad their financials were when they're already selling.

fucking SnapChat refused a FB offer, but Nest just rolls over and dies.

<comment><USER92> What you meant to say was that nest isn't run by idiots that are stupid enough to turn down a 3 billion dollar offer.

<comment><USER91> well, but for a moment it seemed that fadell really wanted to build something great and lasting, building his own vision.

turns out it's just another boring let's get rich story.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER93> This might be a minority opinion, but I think more than home data collection (which they probably have a lot of already from phone / computer usage), that this is about acquiring a company that has cache and a 'cool' factor within both the design world and more importantly the market sector of young tech inclined home owners - a hugely lucrative market.

</comment><comment><USER94> Theoretically, Google could now be remotely adjusting your room temperature to maximize (or minimize) the effectiveness of advertising. [1]

[1] [http://anzmac.info/conference/2013/bestpapers/anzmac2013-364...](http://anzmac.info/conference/2013/bestpapers/anzmac2013-364.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER95> I hate to be that guy, but I think if Google's plan really is to tackle tech in the home, it probably isn't going to work out. The attempt to better integrate technology with common household devices and appliances is nothing new [1]. Most of the previous attempts over the last 20 years have have been met with limited success.

The biggest obstacle is and has been that most of the utilitarian devices in homes already do their jobs pretty well. They're also inexpensive. What does Nest/Google have to offer that won't be more expensive and will present some life-changing advantage over a conventional stove/thermostat/garage door opener?

[1] [http://www.internetnews.com/xSP/article.php/1489021](http://www.internetnews.com/xSP/article.php/1489021)

</comment><comment><USER96> This will give Google access to a very idiosyncratic data set no other major tech company has. It will be interesting to watch how they influence the product line over the coming years, as well as what they do in terms of integration with other google services.

</comment><comment><USER97> In a not-so-strange way this fits well with their recent robotics acquisitions. It really feels like lightning could strike a second time for google so long as they don't middle manage themselves out of it.

</comment><comment><USER98> Wow. This weekend I was talking about Nest with my dad and I said Google will end up buying them. Interesting to see that it's an all cash transaction. I guess all cash makes the deal cheaper for Google.

</comment><comment><USER99> So that means you'll have to have a google plus account, older than 13, and use an interface that use a protocol that replaces snmp but that is propriwtary to google, just to change the twmperature?

</comment><comment><USER100> So perhaps being able to dissect nearly every aspect of a users online life is not enough for Google, now they want to offer a range of devices that can start recording the minucia of everyday home life.

</comment><comment><USER101> As a Nest owner this creeps me out.

Google should NOT have always-on sensors of any type.

</comment><comment><USER102> Finally a tech company with enough good sense to realize that if you get a buyout offer that starts will "b" and ends with "illions", you take the money!

</comment><comment><USER103> On one hand google having more information is unsettling but at the same time it could lead to some interesting possibilities. In the summer my nest kicks the AC on at about 4:45 assuming that I will get home sometime around 5pm. But say I go afterwork to have a beer or drink coffee and stay out until 8pm. Nest knowing where my phone is means it could be smart enough to not turn my AC on until I am headed home.

</comment><comment><USER104> $3.2 billion?

<comment><USER105> Yep. Think of it as 3.2 instagrams.

<comment><USER106> Or 2 youtubes.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER107> Hmm, I wonder if this will make a security system (like canary [http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/canary-the-first-smart- hom...](http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/canary-the-first-smart-home- security-device-for-everyone)) more or less likely. I assumed that would be the next product from Nest.

</comment><comment><USER108> On the face, appears to be a huge valuation for an overpriced thermostat and smoke alarm. But combined with their recent robotic acquisitions I wonder if this signals a move beyond the smart phone, and smart car, to the smart home? If Google engineers want to build the Star Trek computer, surely they want to build the Jetsons home.

</comment><comment><USER109> Well, I guess that's one reason/excuse why Nest turned me down a summer internship when I applied last November.

</comment><comment><USER61> When do we start getting ads on the Thermostat? Or ads on our browser asking us why we are spending so much time at home?

</comment><comment><USER110> This doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Besides the fact that Nest is a great product (But so are Triscuits), why would Google buy them? The Nest _does_ know when you are home. If Google starts to use Nest data to target adds at me, I'm going to rip it out, set it on fire, and mail it to Larry.

</comment><comment><USER111> All I can say is that KPo is a beast, and he's totally why Google paid such a large sum of money for Nest.

</comment><comment><USER112> Time to add thermostats and smoke detectors to all those blog posts about "de- Googling" your life...

</comment><comment><USER113> $3.2 BILLION?! Was Nest Labs making a profit? Seemed to me like they made cool devices that no one bought.

<comment><USER26> They were shipping 50k thermostats a month over a year ago. Combine a heat-up in home automation interest this year with some very fancy endcaps they've placed in Home Depot (the thermostat and smoke detector, with interactive demo videos), they're probably selling much better today.

</comment></comment><comment><USER114> I was hoping Honeywell would buy them an experience a bit (at the division level) of a NeXT-Apple replay. I really am not sure about buying one given the implications of the data from this device being given to advertisers or used in advertising analytics.

</comment><comment><USER46> "To change the temperature of your master bedroom, please create a google+ account."

</comment><comment><USER115> Maybe we'll finally see Android @ Home become a reality

[http://techcrunch.com/2012/06/24/what-happened-to-android- at...](http://techcrunch.com/2012/06/24/what-happened-to-android-at-home/)

</comment><comment> Luke-Jr Maybe Google will push Nest to comply with the GPL terms? They're currently missing the (required by GPLv2) build/install stuff from their source code releases... I've been unable to get root on mine so far :(

</comment><comment><USER116> Oh great.

You have set a temperature of 65°F. Share your climate preferences your Google+ circles?

</comment><comment><USER117> My thought on the topic, after being shocked at the price, was that Apple must have some home automation products as their next big thing.

3.2B to head off Apple from creating the "iPod of home automation" is still a bargain.

</comment><comment><USER118> Was there anything similar (as an amount of cash in the deal) in the last 10 years? Probably Microsoft's acquisition of Nokia's phone division? Is there a list somewhere, that would be interesting to see.

</comment><comment><USER119> "It smells like you've burned your dinner. Would you like to order Dominos for delivery?"

I love my nest. I hope they do good things with the brand. I'll admit.. I am fearful for what they'll do with it.

</comment><comment><USER120> Well, then we should have a better look at [http://www.loxone.com/](http://www.loxone.com/) and maybe so keep our actual real-life data out of black box data centers.

</comment><comment><USER121> With all the data google already has on me, as a new homeowner, I think I'm terrified of buying this product. What kind of profile would this allow Google to build on individuals?

</comment><comment><USER122> Suddenly I no longer want one. I loved the idea when it was a simple way to save on power bills, but I wouldn't have google spy on me even if I was paid money to use it.

</comment><comment><USER123> Google now able to collect more data points about your home too!

</comment><comment><USER124> After a look at Google's smart house experiment in London, I think it's safe to say, their next lot of acquisition targets will be home automation companies.

</comment><comment><USER125> Woohoo, I look forward to it disheartening into Mountain View and only being used to control the HVAC at HQ and be shown off to board members on their quarterly tours.

</comment><comment><USER126> 3.2 billion is an insanely large number. But then when you step back and see Snapchat being offered the similar amount, you kind of feel sorry for Nest for selling.

</comment><comment><USER127> Nice acquisition, but $3.2 bn?? Really? Just unbelievable.

</comment><comment><USER128> This proves that the market for "better mouse trap" is huge. Look around the house. Pick something. Anything. Create a better version.

</comment><comment><USER129> what a great way to force g+ on users even more. "too cold and want to increase your temperature? add 3 friends to your circles!"

</comment><comment><USER130> So YouTube didn't work as a G+ promoter, so now we'll have to log into our houses with it. Well played Google, well played.

</comment><comment><USER131> Do other large tech companies not realize what Google's up to, are they unable to try to compete, or do they just not care?

</comment><comment><USER65> I understand why this is a good aquisition, but still 3.2B... The valuation was 'only' 2B. That escaleted a lot!

</comment><comment><USER132> I look forward to well designed Nest competitors that support connections and logging to user specified endpoints.

</comment><comment><USER133> "OK Google, flush the toliet."

</comment><comment><USER134> I guess in future I'll need a google+ account to adjust the temperature in my house ... :)

</comment><comment><USER135> Good thing the Google founders have grown up and don't need adult supervision anymore.

</comment><comment><USER136> a sign that google is horny for the "internet of things" :)

</comment><comment><USER137> Is it known how much equity Faddell had? Is he a billionaire now?

</comment><comment><USER138> Google + Nest + Boston Dynamics + Ray Kurzweil = Domestic Robot?

</comment><comment><USER130> So will I need to sign into my house with a Google+ account now?

</comment><comment><USER139> Isn't Google trying to spread too thin? I feel so.

</comment><comment><USER140> Great.

Now there's another Google product that will never hit the UK.

</comment><comment><USER141> Google with (new) data sources in my house: hmm.

</comment><comment><USER142> Remember Sparrow?

<comment><USER143> sure

</comment></comment><comment><USER144> Yes, now we can have even more relevant ads!!

</comment><comment><USER145> Bailing out the VC already?

</comment><comment><USER146> You must now login with your G+ account to turn on your thermostat or smoke detector.

</comment><comment><USER147> oh, no. there's definitely no bubble.

</comment><comment><USER148> Bummer.</comment>


The Curious Frontier of Red - <AUTHOR> http://www.mobstr.org/home2.html <comment><USER2> The stencil painted dialog is interesting, like a very slow forum exchange. The other graffiti artists involved contrast the calm war with their more extreme contributions. I wonder if there is meaning to them being ignored or if we just don't have those pictures to lend context to their participation in the communication.

</comment><comment><USER3> This is nothing more than flagrant public vandalism. The author made a poor maintenance worker paint and pressure wash a wall a dozen times.

<comment><USER4> "Poor maintenance workers" are probably paid by the hour, and do this kind of work regularly.

Furthermore, there was really no reason it ever had to be washed or painted.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I don't know why, but this was extremely satisfying. At least the graffiti artist got the owner (presumably the municipality) to beautify the building. Win-win?

</comment><comment><USER6> Looking at other works - this is the sort of backhandedness and snark that I enjoy. While there are plenty of artistic peatures featured on the site there are a few that make me laugh.

[http://www.mobstr.org/image%20pages/critic%20buff.html](http://www.mobstr.org/image%20pages/critic%20buff.html)

I'm sure the bad color matching looks worse than any graffiti that was there.

[http://www.mobstr.org/image%20pages/surveilance.html](http://www.mobstr.org/image%20pages/surveilance.html)

Dual meaning behind that statement.

Also if you liked Red, this other progression piece is nice:

[http://www.mobstr.org/image%20pages/progressions/THE%20STORY...](http://www.mobstr.org/image%20pages/progressions/THE%20STORY.html)

</comment><comment><USER7> Almost like a game of Go, in a way.

</comment><comment><USER8> Public menace.

<comment><USER9> Public culture.

<comment><USER8> Mind if I do this to your house? :)</comment></comment></comment>


NASA detects a 1KM rock that could kill millions on rapid approach - <AUTHOR> https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1237963/Asteroid-alert-NASA-tracks-rock-wipe-out-continent-hit-Earth-approach-asteroid-news <comment><USER2> "the asteroid will miss [Earth] by more than 3.58 million miles (5.77 million km)"</comment>


Physicists Predict The Existence of Time Crystals - <AUTHOR> http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/27583/

<comment><AUTHOR> Soon, we will have a time machine built...</comment>


Jeff Bezos Sells $2B of Amazon Stock After 4% Stake Transfer - <AUTHOR> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-01/bezos-sells-2-billion-of-amazon-stock-after-4-stake-transfer <comment><USER2> Also see [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20583938](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20583938)</comment>


Family Lives in the Arctic Circle by Building Cob House in a Solar Geodesic Dome - <AUTHOR> http://mymodernmet.com/hjertefolger-arctic-circle-cob-house/ <comment><USER2> This is really beautiful. The stunning beauty aside, the practical side of my brain has to wonder:

1) What do these folks do for work that they can live up in the Arctic in this fashion?

2) How do they keep the dome's light from being completely obliterated. In the second to the last picture from the bottom you can see the dome almost completely covered in snow, which would make it very dark inside. Unlike in majority of photos where there is no snow covering the glass.

<comment><USER3> The second question bothers me as well. In addition, partially melted and refrozen snow can cause really large loads to the dome if not removed on time. Must be annoying to climb up there.

<comment><USER4> "Able to withstand over 4KN/m² of snow loading and wind speeds exceeding 31m/s"

[http://www.solardome.co.uk/case-study/the-nature-house- north...](http://www.solardome.co.uk/case-study/the-nature-house-north- norway/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> The link to SolarDome explains the dome uses single glass, so the dome has virtually no isolation. In other words, it freezes inside unless they have external energy sources for heating.

<comment><USER6> There is a fully functional house inside the dome. The dome itself has no insulation, but the massive 'dead' air space between the dome and the house provides a huge amount of insulation.

The dome by itself isn't that interesting. It's the dome/house system that provides the benefits. It means they can spend a lot less on heating fuel.

<comment><USER7> Open air will convect like crazy. ... and the area of the glass is much larger than the outside area of the building. So chances are things will cool down quite quickly once the sun goes down.

<comment><USER6> It will convect a lot less than a 15 knot wind...

It will certainly cool down, but there is no way the dome is anything but a net-win in terms of thermal efficiency (is it enough to offset the cost of the dome? I don't know... but it will absolutely reduce the amount of heat lost by the house)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Fun stuff, and I wonder if the architecture of the future (where the climate is much less predictable than it has been) is houses, and perhaps communities, like this. A "two layer" architecture where there is an isolation layer between the wind/rain/snow aspects of the climate and the garden + living quarters. The folks over at earthship ([http://earthship.org/](http://earthship.org/)) are of that opinion.

<comment><USER9> In humid areas it would be pretty uncomfortable during the warmer months (at least, without lots of ventilation or active cooling).

<comment><USER8> True but there has been some interesting work lately in building adsorption materials[1] with the property that they keep humidity at a particular level (caveat their ability to absorb more water or release more water). Given that a domed house would have a large volume available for adsorption material it may be possible to have a completely passive system.

[1] [http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1004510417593](http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1004510417593)

[2] [https://cotes.com/cotes-humidity-management/](https://cotes.com/cotes- humidity-management/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> This would seem to be a perfect home for the West Coast of the U.S. - When I first moved to California, I had no idea the Pacific would be _so damn cold_! There are homes all along the coast already, obviously, but this would allow living by the ocean, enjoying an "outside" deck with a gorgeous view, yet not being blasted by daily wind and fog.

<comment><USER11> Geodesic domes are notoriously leaky because they have so many seams and joints and odd angles. But when you have a whole 'nother house _inside_ the dome, then you're probably OK. :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Things like this always make me think of Martian settlement and what kinds if clever building methods we might discover there.

<comment><USER13> I thought the growing awareness of the risk from cosmic radiation meant most settlements would be built below ground. (So no awesome geodesic dome front porch patios on Mars.)

<comment><USER14> If (and yeah, I know it's a stretch) you could create a dome of water, it might be something similar...

It would be a very thick dome, but it still seems possible.

<comment><USER12> Ice could work. I wonder if it could be polished to work as a window?

<comment><USER15> Interesting idea. I think I may have read long ago (as a kid) that igloos have windows made of ice. Not sure.

Update: just checked this:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igloo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igloo)

They _can_ have windows made of ice blocks, says the article - see the "Construction" section.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Another family build a greenhouse around what they call a "summer home" in Stockholm. There is a YouTube video at the bottom of the article for those who want more info.

[http://www.ecowatch.com/couple-builds-greenhouse-around- home...](http://www.ecowatch.com/couple-builds-greenhouse-around-home-to-grow- food-and-keep-warm-1882128131.html)

</comment><comment><USER17> Solar in the arctic circle? Isn't the arctic circle defined as the place where the sun doesn't shine in winter?

During the summer, I'm sure it's great there. The architecture is beautiful. But it just doesn't seem practical year-round.

<comment><USER18> Regarding the solar panels, my first intuition would have been to mount them outside the dome. I wonder why they are inside?

<comment><USER19> mine perform very poorly when snow is directly on them. Nearly zero output even on bright days. On cloudy but bright days if they are clear they produce better, not great but like 30%. I imagine if you have snow build up there it might take a long time for it to melt and you give up a lot of production.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> One thing the article doesn't touch on is the 'why'. What's the motivation behind this?

There's a, I want to say similar but its sort of not, community/town in my state called Coober Pedy where a good number of the dwellings are located almost entirely underground. Even on a 45c day, it's quite nice inside without any AC although when the lights are out the pitch black is pretty unsettling...

</comment><comment><USER21> How do you make the geodesic facet seams so water doesn't go there and freeze?

To me, they don't seem like a good solution for cold and wet climates.

<comment><USER22> Some dripping isn't a big deal, there is after all a house under it.

<comment><USER21> But it will break the dome or at least pry the seam open when the water freezes.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: What makes coders happy? - <AUTHOR>

I'm a non-coding founder trying to develop a website.  I'm looking to find a technical cofounder and I need to understand how to better work and connect with coders.
I've read a fair amount about retaining programmers but most of those articles are confusing to me because they contain lots of coder specific language.  I thought it would be more fun to have a discussion around the following question:
What should non-coders do (or not do) to make it easier for hackers be excited about collaborating and developing a great product? <comment><USER2> The best sort of manager acts like an administrative assistant. When managing creative people like developers, you don't need to "manage" them in order to get them to create; their natural state is creating things, and this only changes when some obstacle gets in the way. A good manager makes sure that obstacles -- needing to get paid, getting approval to travel to a conference, purchasing a new computer, finding people to test code, irritating users with bug reports which are too vague to be useful -- don't intrude on the developer's time.

The best thing you can do to make yourself attractive as a non-coding co- founder (short of learning to code) is to say "I'll take care of all the non- coding muck so that you can focus on doing what you do best".

<comment><USER3> I agree. And if you've found someone that needs to be prodded into coding, they aren't a good coder. That's your first warning.

Also, anything that annoys a developer is an obstacle. If you make it difficult to take vacation time, for example, that's an obstacle. Many companies seem to think 'Oh, everyone is that way' and that it makes it okay somehow. If there's something in the contract and you make it hard for the developer to get it, you're going wrong. Part of honoring your contract should be making sure it isn't difficult for the developer to collect on what they are promised.

<comment><USER2> _Part of honoring your contract should be making sure it isn't difficult for the developer to collect on what they are promised._

Also, keep in mind that when they're not writing code, developers often have about as much attention span as a five year old on crack. You might think that filling out a couple pages of paperwork in order to get the company to pay conference registration fees is perfectly reasonable, but it will irritate the hell out of many developers.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I was very recently in your position.

Remember, an idea is worthless. They have people asking them to build things for equity all the time. You have to compete with these people. If you want to attract a tech-cofounder you have to show value. No one is interested in a one-side partnership where they have to do all the work and then give up a large portion of any profits. How are they going to know you can bring anything to table if you have nothing to show?

After I had identified a potential pain point and thought up a solution, this (in order) is how I proceeded.

I enrolled in a relevant classes (business fashion/intro to entrepreneurship), wrote a business plan/financial statement, figured out the features and how I wanted the app to work, contracted wireframe mockups, raised money from family, hired a lawyer to form a corporation, had the graphic design done, had the front end done.

It took a year and $4500 before I finally found my co-founder.

All the stuff had to be done anyways and it was stuff I, as a non tech- cofounder could do. After I met my technical co-founder we spent a week transferring knowledge (after working on it for a year, i had a lot to say) and now he is coding away.

Also everything took way longer then I expected.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Ok, lots of administrative suggestions here, which is good insight, I appreciate it.

What about collaboration and working with developers to incorporate their knowledge of sound programming structure and data architecture into the site? My site looks simple from the front end, but has a ton of stuff happening on the back end of things.

Excellent data management will be key for me and its something I need a lot of help with. The front end was easy for me to draw up but I need a great creative relationship with a technical cofounder to make the site as powerful as I'd like it to be.

<comment> g-wizz "What about collaboration and working with developers to incorporate their knowledge of sound programming structure and data architecture into the site?"

Assuming you've hired a good coder, be clear when explaining what the requirements are and what needs to be done but don't tell him/her how it should be done. Coding and design is where their expertise lies so give them the freedom to use their professional judgement.

You may also find Joel Spolsky's "Field Guide to Developers" article interesting, in particular the section entitled Independence and Autonomy [http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FieldGuidetoDeveloper...](http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FieldGuidetoDevelopers.html)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Do's: Focus your communication, clearly define specifications early on, set list of priorities for tasks, and aim for a minimal amount of meetings. Basic software engineering stuff, but this makes a world of difference. Leave margins for things to go wrong: you'll need them, and your programmers will love you for it.

Don't make assumptions about what is easy and difficult to build. Take advantage of the expertise of your team to assess how much time different tasks might take.

</comment><comment><USER6> Have a clear vision of what you want to accomplish. No one likes hitting a moving target. Sure there might be pivots, but don't add to that by not understanding in great detail what you want built.

Assist them by helping them test everything you can.

</comment><comment><USER7> I would definitely recommend learning the basics of some programming language. If anything else this will help you to understand what's going on and what needs to be done to have your vision implemented.

<comment><AUTHOR> Any suggested languages? I was emailing a guy last week about learning C. My first developer I worked with (college buddy) was using Rails for my site but my current developer is using Drupal.

<comment><USER8> Learning the basics in any language will help, I'd suggest Python, Ruby, or C++. Rails is actually a web development framework built on top of the programming language Ruby and Drupal is similar to a framework and I think uses the programming language php (not too sure though don't know too much about Drupal). C/C++ will be harder to pick up and isn't really necessary for someone just looking to learn. Try going through a python or ruby tutorial and pick the one you like better.

<http://ruby-doc.org/docs/ProgrammingRuby/>

<http://docs.python.org/tutorial/>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> This video might give you some insights: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc></comment>