Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf] - <AUTHOR> http://www.t3x.org/files/vidya_324-325_NH_reprint.pdf <comment><USER3> _Teachers disliked him, because they knew how easily he picked up information._

I'm a teacher, and this is one of the things that frustrates me deeply about our education system. I welcome students like this; they're so much fun to work with. But I usually have to make them feel accepted before I can begin to work with them. I teach in a small alternative high school, and by the time bright students get to me, they're often used to being shut down for picking things up quickly and not having to do homework.

I met a really bright and interesting guy once who told me about his experience in first grade. His teacher gave everyone a math workbook, and he was really excited to be learning math. He finished the workbook in a day or two, and excitedly brought it to his teacher, expecting to be given another workbook. Instead she glared at him and said something along the lines of, "I can't believe you cheated on your math workbook in first grade!" She gave him another copy of the same workbook and told him to do start over, and that she'd be watching him. He thought to himself, "Well that sucked, but she'll watch me do it this time and know I can do it." So he did, but this time she just got mad at him and said something like, "I don't have anything else for you to do, so here's another copy of the workbook. Don't finish this so quickly."

He learned what so many bright kids learn: if you learn things too quickly and speak up, you'll just make the adults around you mad and they'll give you more meaningless work to do. I know there are many teachers who handle bright kids really well, but as a system we fail many kids. These effects last years, and often times decades.

<comment><USER4> It's not that the teachers _dislike_ him, it's that they are frustrated that he is not following the curriculum and conforming to the lesson sequence and timeframe planned for.

I found US public school education was not about learning and mastery. It's about conformity and obedience. Learning the subject matter is secondary--the key to succeeding at this institution is to do things in the expected way, at the expected pace, even if it is mind-numbingly verbose and slow. It's a hack: You learn the expectations and do the bare minimum of what is precisely expected, because both less than and greater than the bare minimum will be penalized. I had a rough time in school until I grokked this hack.

Do your homework. It's easy of course, just takes a long time to do since so much gets assigned. The point of doing homework is not to learn, it's to show obedience--you were told to do the homework and you did it.

Show your work. It doesn't matter if you can do division in your head, kid. You're expected to write down the specified intermediate steps so just turn your brain off and do it. The point is to follow the prescribed process, not to master the subject.

Class participation. This is a gift to the outgoing/popular/sports kids to inflate their grades. Just figure out how many times you need to say something in order to get full credit, then raise your hand and say something (anything, it usually doesn't matter) that amount of times.

Public schooling is a series of hoops that you need to jump through at no slower or faster than the prescribed pace. The smart kids figure this out. The REALLY smart kids tend not to figure it out unfortunately.

<comment><USER5> Unfortunately all these 'lessons' mimic skills that will be needed by adults in the corporate world. Work in groups even when they're dysfunctional, show off and write lots of supporting documentation to get yourself promoted, and learn to tolerate seemingly arbitrary or broken management decisions.

<comment><USER4> I don't know if it's unfortunate. It's certainly by design. The societal purpose of public schooling is to prepare the future service workers and corporate drones of America to follow procedures and not get too curious. The (pre-determined) future leaders of America have their own track with private/prep schools, tutors, and Ivy League higher-ed, where the focus/purpose is, I would imagine, very different.

<comment><USER6> This is a silly myth. The privileged upper class don't get a special better- designrf education, they get a professional network that puts them in power regardless of their education. There's no special high school class that teaches "skills for becoming a CEO or a Congressperson".

<comment><USER7> While true, those that come from real money aren't sitting a class room with 30+ other students.

<comment><USER8> no they also do so. its just that the class is more like 20 and the teacher is very good. -source have sat in public school (also a VERY well funded publisc school) class with friends with parent's net worth > 90 million

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I know of at least two other people from small towns whose IQ and life stories are similar to those shared in the article. I think high IQ individuals becoming isolated, social outcasts is more common in small towns, where accelerated curriculums and gifted and talented programs are more rare.

If you know a highly gifted child, refer them to the Davidson Academy, a free public school for the profoundly gifted. [http://www.davidsonacademy.unr.edu](http://www.davidsonacademy.unr.edu)

The Davidson academy is free to attend, and they can coordinate providing IQ- appropriate curriculum and work to the child's school for students who cannot attend in-person. Finally, there are paid, online options as well.

A friend of mine works at Davidson, and they have elementary age kids taking physics classes alongside master's degree students. When they say "profoundly gifted", it's not hyperbole.

Getting gifted kids into programs where they are surrounded by people like them can go a long ways towards helping them learn social skills. They may never be socially normal in larger society, but they can find friends, meaning, and happiness that can lead to a productive and brilliant career and life.

<comment><USER10> Got any resources for preschools?

I've got a serious pending problem with my youngest. She's 18 months old and already on par with an average 4-5 year old (and even older in some ways). It's really freaking my wife and I out - we cannot keep up with her curiosity and motivation to learn - we just don't have time or resources. We're worried that by the time she starts school, she's going to be so far ahead that she won't be able to relate to the other kids. She already has issues with other 18-24 month olds - she call's them babies and treats them like so. No idea what to do.

I just want her to be able to hang out with kids like herself and do what kids do. I'm not interested in turning her into a super-genius or putting pressure or her or training her or any of that. I'd rather her just be free and follow her mind for as long as possible.

<comment><USER10> By the way, although my wife and I are fairly intelligent, neither of us are as intelligent as our parents. For instance, my father apparently taught himself to read and write at around 2 and started to teach himself logic and algebra soon after. At 3, he wrote a math / philosophy paper detailing a complex cosmology and metaphysics in which he used logical arguments to disprove God.

He never did much with his life - got into a lot of trouble as an adolescent and eventually settled down as a laborer. For the past 20 years he's been a recluse and sits in his studio apartment playing FPS games all day.

It's an issue of resources. As a kid, he also lived on a large rural farm, so he had no resources to do anything else. Many of my other family members are intelligent too, but they all grew up poor and ended up being poor later in life. It makes me sad.

<comment><USER11> this tells me that knowing you're smart can be more of a problem than being smart with no outlet, which fits nicely into my anecdata-backed perceptions. =)

e.g., i've known smart people who have gone on to have ordinary lives and it doesn't seem to have lessened their quality of life. sure, society at large didn't get as much benefit, but individual flameouts are probably one of the reasons we don't fully optimize for maximum societal contribution.

i've also known smart people for whom knowledge of their high intelligence has not only been a burden but a hindrance to their personal success and fulfillment.

the global optimum is probably not made of a bunch of local optima methinks.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Warning! /r/iamverysmart post ahead! I normally wouldn't engage in this, as it's extremely poor manners and terribly arrogant, but it's on topic here and I think other potential /r/iamverysmart posters might benefit, so here goes:

One of the problems of being intelligent is learning how to tolerate and accept boredom. I used to rebel against being bored and being ahead of the class. I would think: "this is all so easy and why isn't anybody interested in anything interesting?"

Once I learned that dealing with boredom is basically the price you pay for fitting in things improved a lot. I deal with a lot of friendships that are profoundly boring just so I can have people to talk to and socially interact with. I don't complain. I don't patronize. I just go through the motions so I can cargo cult my way to a social life. I lowered my expectations on everything and everybody to absolutely nothing and it works great.

I overhear other people's conversations and I think to myself: "how can these people even put up with that level of conversation?. They must be pretending to be entertained!" Then I remember all about the boring world out there where people go about their daily lives talking all day about boring stuff.

After all this boring interaction I'll occasionally go to a Deep Learning study group and we'll read the latest paper. Very smart people will analyze the paper and leave me a little disconcerted that there are people that I can engage with intellectually and be challenged and entertained by in a sincere way. Anyway, that's just my two cents about the world for the disgruntled /r/iamverysmart crowd out there, whether you actually are or not. :)

<comment><USER13> Throwaway for obvious reasons.

I do not mean this comment as a brag. Far from it.

I am one of these people - I tested with an incredibly high IQ (nearly 200 at the time, though I know that fades). I graduated with a 4.2 GPA, and a 3.9 average (because on semester I chose to 'punish' my mother who was taking credit for my high grades, and got a D just to prove it)

I have a very hard time with life in general. People bore me to tears. You have to repeat and dumb down everything for them all the time. Most jobs are mind numbingly dull.

Unlike the people in this article, I had support. My grandfather was similar to me, and taught me some basic coping mechanisms. They have largely worked, and I've learned how to survive with a nearly perfect memory (oh god the horror, I wouldn't inflict it on anyone) and what I like to call an incredibly high idle.

I make enough to get by, and the company I work for seems pleased with me. Been there 16 years so far, always resistent to anything beyond a simple lead type position. Thank god my management usually recognizes that I am VERY bad at dealing with people, and lets me get back to solving problems in my very quiet and dark office.

The coping that works for _me_ is split attention. If I'm simultaneously listening to two or more musical pieces, working on different problems on different computers and screens, and fiddling with something (like a pen or something), I can get through a day.

If for some reason I'm restricted down to a single source of input (like just a laptop), I basically go completely mad. My mental energy level is far too high, and the frustration of waiting for the computer to keep up causes me to get angry beyond reason.

My life is a fucking hell, and I also spend a lot of time contemplating suicide. The imaginative and interesting methods help occupy some cycles.

<comment><USER14> I have known/worked with a few people who, in confidence, expressed something similar to what you just said, about having to "dumb everything down" for everyone around them.

They were bright, of course, I wouldn't quibble with that, but they were also really lousy communicators. It wasn't so much that everyone around them was just a dum-dum, but that they weren't very good at explaining things. They seemed to misattribute those folks not understanding them to people being dumb, not their inability to express ideas.

<comment><USER13> Sometimes that is certainly part of it. Do you go out of your way to explain calculus or particle physics to children?

Or do you simply not bother?

When a person has spent their entire life trying to communicate whatever they were excited about to people who are only interested in the fad du jour, they don't develop the skills to communicate well once they _do_ find people bright enough to understand.

For example, go walk around MIT, Harvey Mudd, or Cal Poly and see how poorly freshmen do with their initial social gatherings.

You personally are probably extremely smart (this is HN after all, where I seek refuge from the total fucking paste eaters of the world) - but that just means that you were dealing with someone who had never had an opportunity to learn those communication skills. Unlike you, presumably.

<comment><USER15> "Cal Poly " \- as a Cal Poly alum this wasn't really my experience. Of course, with thousands of people in the incoming class, experiences will vary. Most of my social connections were through choir.

<comment><USER16> I imagine he meant Cal Tech.

<comment><USER15> His comment specifically said "Cal Poly".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I'm going to put this out there. Gifted children need mentors more than they need teachers who understand their abilities. There are many things that will make them struggle in school, and without a mentor to be there with them offering advice and keeping them grounded then there's going to be the same issues popping up over and over with each new year.

What we need is a sort of Big Brother/Sister program but not for at-risk children in the traditional sense, but highly gifted children who will be lost without someone to help guide them through the problems they'll face in early life.

<comment><USER18> We also need to educate parents about the potential benefits of a mentor program. It can be particularly difficult to convince people in the top quintile that they are ill-equipped for any task related to their children.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> From a limited dataset: They get by. Find balance. When you ask them for a coffee, they tell you they don't have the $5 to take the subway to meet you and are very sorry for that.

Some have other problems they are trying to work around, and all their energy goes to that and not inventing the next quantum equation.

They drop out of being the hottest developers in the software industry, they stop being the top performers in the financial sector.

They can get back, but it requires support. Our western society isn't optimized for such support but for grinding the rest down.

So, it's not where they go, it's how do the rest of us, help them?

<comment> nils-m-holm Author of the article here: yes, the most interesting question is, what can we do to help?

The article makes some suggestions. Short version:

Spread awareness, especially among professionals (medical doctors, psychiatrists, etc). I have seen lots of high-IQ/highly sensitive people who got _terrible_ advice from psychologists and psychiatrists. Educate those professionals, so at least they don't do any damage.

Also: a communication platform for troubled high-IQ folks would be great! I would do it myself, but I'm bad at both, IT and social networking.

<comment><USER20> So tell the experts that they're wrong, and that they are ignorant about part of their field? That sort of behavior rarely has a beneficial outcome, and can appear egotistical.

> _When one of them learned that their high IQ might cause some of the trouble > they experienced, they once again looked for professional help, only to find > out that the problem is widely unknown out there._

How did they learn of this - that their IQ might cause some of these troubles - what was their authoritative information source? Essentially, they've found multiple professional authorities who dispute the information they heard somewhere and chose to believe.

\---

Learning and technical skills have always been easy for me, understanding people less so. I got an undergrad business degree _specifically_ to understand why businesses do some of the nonsensical things they do. What I learned is that companies are essentially just organizations of humans, money, and things - and humans do all kinds of 'nonsensical' things because we are humans.

<comment><USER21> There's a surprising dearth of research into the challenges faced by gifted people.

As a topic, it does get some - not much - attention in both psychology and psychiatry. But it's considered a specialised field far out of the mainstream.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> I was one of those "gifted left behind" students. Majority of my family never completed high school and no one in my family went to college. High school was the bare minimum requirement to work at the local furniture factory and that is where you were expected to work after graduation (college was out of scope us simple folks).

My high school barely offered any AP courses, didn't prepare students for the SAT (I didn't know what it was) and despite having nearly a 4.0 GPA (unweighted, since I never took any AP courses) the "best" college I was told I could attend was a local nearby liberal arts school. I had no guidance on where to go to college nor any preparation.

I showed talent at an early age but there were simply no resources for me. I ended up going to a community college, had nearly a 4.0 GPA (taking mostly STEM courses) and a guidance consoler recommended I apply for a prestigious university located in the state. I told her I couldn't do that as I knew I wouldn't be accepted, told her the acceptance rate is too low. She tried to push really hard for me apply and said I would get in. I declined. Instead I went to a much lower ranked university (looking back on it I could have gotten into the initial school) and ended up doing research there. The research led to a publication but for one reason or another my GPA dropped and continue to drop each semester (had A+s, As in some courses, Ds in others). I received help from no one and had no support system.

Ended up transferring to a larger school. Started over there, GPA continued to suffer (was dealing with a lot) and graduated. Despite my low GPA I was accepted to a highly ranked graduate school and was offered a fellowship, teaching assistant ship and research assistantship, but I also received a job offer with a much higher starting salary. My family was in such need at this time I had to accept the job over graduate school.

After working in industry I developed a new interest and decided I wanted to go back into academia. At this moment in my life I'm preparing to make the switch. I enrolled in a well-ranked university taking pre-req courses in the new field and currently pulling off a 4.0 GPA. I plan to apply to graduate school shortly.

Most of my friends had more of a straight path into graduate school.

<comment><USER23> I imagine you want to keep this private so could you at least name the nearest town to where you grew up? Just trying to find out if this is in America or another country. Your story is very familiar. Unfortunately your family seems to be taking advantage of your goodwill. I know because I've experience it myself. They get into all sorts of trouble and then they expect you to drop everything and to sacrifice everything to help them. Good luck.

<comment><USER22> USA.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Anyone else fascinated by the "window of comprehension" mentioned in the article? It's really fascinating to me. As the article says, it's the idea that "no meaningful communication is possible among people not sharing a common window of 30 IQ points."

I have no idea how true it is, but it's a really interesting idea. At least in my experience it's a probabilistic thing: as people get more different in IQ communication becomes harder, with a few exceptions.

What do you all think?

<comment><USER25> I was certainly very interested in this concept. I admit my instant reaction was one of complete repugnance. Human communication comprises a huge array of different things, the minority of which have to do with abstract reasoning. IQ is a very specific measure of one aspect of human intelligence.

In a sense this concept (the window of comprehension), reductive as it seems, would be more likely to reinforce the problems the individuals mentioned have, by emphasizing human communication as an intellectual rather than a social activity.

In general my experience of very intelligent people is that they have an excellent ability to interact with people of all types, including people with relatively undeveloped powers of abstract thought. After all understanding context is to my mind a strong indicator of intelligence.

On the other hand I'd be interested to hear more from people of very high IQ on this topic - if they think they can get their ideas across to me over the 30 point barrier

<comment><USER26> The key here is "meaningful". I'm not sure about 145 talking to 115, but I can imagine that 115 talking to 85 would be downright painful. We would just not care about the same things.

<comment><USER25> Thought experiment: you're the last two humans. You've an IQ of 115 and the other person has an IQ of 85.

In my imagination a hell of a lot of that difference would become meaningless within the first week or so.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Warning, I might not be as smart as I think I am and this may be irrelevant. I am a college student who has coasted his entire life. My father is a professor and probably the only reason I am not socially isolated. From my experience(which may or may not be relevant) being this gifted is a lot like living an RPG.

.The person you are when interacting is nothing but a character. You have to fake engagement, interest, and ability in order to have friends or you can be alone.

.You need to give your life some long term goal otherwise no work has meaning because it serves no use. However, say your goal is to cure cancer you know you have to do well in school and social to later gain access to the resources necessary for your goal. An RPG without a quest is no fun.

</comment><comment><USER28> I'm trying to figure out how realistic the mentioned concept of a "window of comprehension" actually is. This [paper? article? post?] only has one external reference - to another document from the same group[1]. That short document, in turn, makes unsupported claims that "Studies have shown that there is a "window of comprehension" of about 30 IQ points."

A quick Google search didn't provide anything further in support of the idea; just some references to the concept from the same group.

Is this a real thing? It would be fascinating if it were, for many different contexts.

[1] [http://www.triplenine.org/portals/0/PublicDocs/Vidya/vidya_3...](http://www.triplenine.org/portals/0/PublicDocs/Vidya/vidya_320-321_MF_reprint.pdf)

<comment><USER29> I am highly skeptical of this as well. It is certainly not my experience. I sometimes catch myself getting impatient and irritable when I am attempting to communicate with some one of low-to-average intelligence (I'm around 150), but if anything my ability to engage in abstract and metaphorical thinking helps me paint pictures to explain complex things to people.

Part of the problem, I think, is that this may well be true for people who have certain personality profiles, in particular if they have poor emotional intelligence. But I do not believe this speaks to some intrinsic "impossibility" but rather social barriers to effective communication, barriers that can, with effort, be overcome.

If one is self-reflective enough to be able to recognize how arrogant they sound to to others, learns humility, patience, and the value of human life other than one's own, communication is not a problem. It just takes more effort.

But I will say this: I constantly have to ask the question, "I know what they literally said, but what did they actually mean?" Because if I don't I come off like a prick.

<comment><USER16> I think you hit the nail on the head with your comment on emotional intelligence and communication.

That said, does the ability to empathize and communicate with someone outside of that window mean that it doesn't exist? I know that when I go full speed with someone at my level, it sounds like a foreign language to some of my peers. They understand the words we say, but they don't really understand the conclusions, implications, etc.

Note that I am not sure I agree with the hard interpretation of the author of the article (specifically, "no meaningful communication is possible among people not sharing a common window of 30 IQ points"). That said, I do think that there are some fundamental differences in how people outside of a 30-point range perceive the world.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> I think introversion may be partly to blame. I can relate to a lot of the things about the people in this article.

That said, over many years, I managed to train myself to act extroverted. Recently, someone even accused me of being a "social, networking type" which they probably meant as an insult but it was actually a massive compliment to my life's work ;p

<comment><USER31> I may be misunderstanding what you're referring to, but I just wanted to point out that "introversion" doesn't mean "misanthropic." In a nutshell, introversion/extroversion just refers to what effect social interaction has on you: Does being with people energize you, or leave you drained? For example, I'm most certainly an introvert, but I love meeting up with friends for an evening---the "introvert" part is that at a certain point, I just want to leave and go sit in a quiet room. Interaction is _tiring_ , not unpleasant.

Anyway, I'm wandering: My point was, I'm not sure you've trained yourself to "act extroverted," just to be more social than your "comfort zone" would normally allow.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> I don't agree with his approach for a few reasons:

1) The 145 cutoff seems arbitrary. A kid at 135 doesn't get help? Plus constantly speaking about a number feels a little uncomfortable on the side of elitism.

2) Poverty is not mentioned as a problem to address. Roughly there are 40,000 people in the US this smart - living below the poverty line. Can you imagine the boost if they all hit potential?

3) And crime? We've got thousands of criminals with an IQ >= 145. And as De Niro said, they're not doin' thrill-seeker liquor store holdups with a "Born to Lose" tattoo on their chest.

4) All the assumptions could be wrong. I was in this group, and barely made it out of high school, failed out of college a couple of times. But the problem wasn't school, my teachers were mostly nice. I had learned poor homework discipline combined with having a severe fear of failure.

Point is when people don't meet potential, there are a dizzying number of reasons, each with their own twists. How do you know which?

</comment><comment><USER33> IQ means little if you do not have the ambition, drive, and courage to be more.

I have known many people with superior IQs working in brainless jobs. They would not leave or consider another way of life. Actually, one did. I was her best friend. She loved kids. I planted little hints that she would make a great teacher. She watched me go through college. Once she saw me do it, she decided she could do it to. She went for two years, took on a double load, and graduated at the top of her class. She is now a middle school teacher. Not making great money, but she loves her job.

</comment><comment> D-Coder The paper says, "Of course, high-IQ societies exist, but then most of their members appear to be rather successful and hence limited in their understanding of people who never achieved much, if anything, in life."

Some people join high-IQ societies _because_ they haven't achieved a lot, and any society where they share an important attribute is a place where they can fit in. And Mensa, at least, has a good deal of support for gifted children.

<comment><USER34> Right; Mensa demographic is high-IQ non-achievers. Kind of the point - a club where you can feel appreciated even though you don't find that anywhere else.

<comment><USER35> 69% of Mensa members make more than $50,000/year, and 47% of them make more than $75,000/year. I'm sure they have some non-achieving members but it doesn't look like their main demographic.

<comment><USER34> That sounds sort of average or even below. The Elks club probably looks like that. For the top 2% intelligent people in the world, that counts as non- achieving. Working in a bookstore or running a gas station is not what you'd expect from geniuses.

<comment><USER35> Median income in the US is not quite $52,000, so Mensa is somewhat above average.

<comment><USER36> That's the median household income; i.e. two incomes. The median personal income is more like $30,000.

<comment><USER35> Whoopsie. Thanks for pointing that out.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> That high school drop out story hits close to home.

My advice is to get a low level job at a smaller company that has a department which does interesting or highly technical work. Start talking to their IT/Technical/Whatever staff and let them know you work on x/y/z in your free time.

In my case I did a good deal of free work after hours (100+ hour weeks) before actually moving to a full time programming position (50 hour weeks), but it was worth it considering it completely turned my career prospects around.

Being on the other side of things now, most companies are starving for good people.

</comment><comment><USER38> Starting to teach helped me immensely. I've learned a lot about how other people relate to the world. Just having an advanced understanding of something is useless in many situations unless you're able to communicate this understanding to other people so they can share it.

</comment><comment><USER39> Someone I know was tested at an IQ of 145. She placed #1 in her city (the capital city of the country) for high school entrance exams among tens of thousands of students. She is now a VP in her mid-30s of a Fortune 100 company and on track to be CFO. However, her goal is to be a CFO in the next 5 years, and I have no doubt she will accomplish that.

</comment><comment><USER40> Interesting read.

Personally, I feel like I'm somewhere on this spectrum, but perhaps not as far along as your two examples. Depending on my choices over the next couple years, it could go either way, I think.

I have terrible OCD and anxiety, and usually spend 1-2 days a week dealing with that problem alone. But thankfully my job is flexible and well-paid enough that I can still live pretty comfortably.

More than anything else (and embarrassingly), I sympathize with your examples' misanthropy and consequent social isolation.

In my opinion, being almost completely subject to disciplinary structures such as work and school for most of their lives makes most people pretty uninteresting. I can't say that I've done lots of super interesting things myself (working on it!), but unfortunately that doesn't really help me feel better about my peers.

I also dislike the kind of social interactions social media seems to encourage. For me, the need to constantly seek or maintain approval of a wide audience of people is extremely unbecoming. Being an introvert, I also can't really deal with the 'little bits of social interaction sprinkled over time' pattern. But unfortunately, it seems that social media now dominates patterns of social relations, so it seems that I have to deal with that somehow...

</comment><comment><USER41> Is the focus on "High IQ" helpful here? Why would the treatment for ADHD, Depression, Social Anxiety, etc, be any different for them than someone with a lower IQ?

<comment> nils-m-holm Because in some cases it's none of the above; it's just not fitting in, and getting "treated" for being different is often the beginning of a long and sad history of self-blame and isolation.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> I am in this category, but have a completely different experience. For one I did not get tested until late in life (and discovered I had an IQ of ~150 according to the Mensa standard admissions test), and for another I was in private school all the way through high school.

So I believe what made the difference for me was a combination of not growing up with that ultra-gifted stigma, attending a school with very small classes (sometimes I was the only student in a given class), and having a great deal of socialization with intelligent adults. I still had a lot of difficulty relating to others my age, and thus made few lasting friends.

I also did my best to shy away from any attempt to classify me as a genius. I didn't feel like a genius (whatever that means), and didn't want to be considered one. This, in part, is why I didn't bother to get tested until into my 40s.

</comment><comment><USER42> Many of the symptoms described there looked like ADHD (of course I am not making a real diagnostic). High intelligence and lack of motivation leads to underachievement.

</comment><comment><USER43> Was in the 99.9 percentile as a child and enjoyed gifted classes until high school where I was exceptionally bored and hardly applied myself. I ended up at a lower-ranked state university where I am able to try a little harder (thanks STEM), though it still doesn't feel rewarding being so far ahead of your classmates. Fortunately, my campus life is much more social than my more ambitious hs friends' campuses, although I do often feel intellectually alienated.

I really have to thank HN for providing a stimulating community. The high- quality resources and discussions here have made my life much more pleasant; as a community you've improved my outlook drastically. Thanks. (Do any of you relate? If you have any advice, let me know!)

<comment><USER44> One of my friends left school to pursue a professional career at 18, did it rather successfully and then retired after a few years to go back to school. He decided to go back via community college but it bored him to tears. The teaching was terrible and none of his peers seemed worth talking to. Then he started looking at the online recordings that good schools put up of their classes, realized the gap in teaching quality and decided to transfer to a vastly better school. He's been much happier since.

It's easy for us to blame or be indignant about our environments, but sometimes I also think it's our own responsibilities to go find the places in the world that would work for us.

I personally like finding hobbies and pursuing them relentlessly with the goal of becoming the best in the world. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But I usually enjoy myself and get to meet some really remarkable people I wouldn't have otherwise.

</comment></comment><comment><USER45> Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth has a lot of useful resources for parents and others wondering about the needs of smart kids and what can be done for them.

[http://cty.jhu.edu/](http://cty.jhu.edu/)

They helped us with my daughter.

<comment><USER46> Having attended five Summers worth of residential CTY programs, I attest and affirm that nothing - university, private organizations, or autodidactism - has yet exceeded the intensity of immersion in an environment of pure learning that I experienced there.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> I am not sure I buy that this is related to the intelligence of the children involved. To match those two stories, I can probably identify a half dozen others with the same rough trajectory, minus the comments about how bright they are and how they could pass at school without trying. The problem isn't that they're screwed by the system, educational or otherwise. The problem is that they never figured out how to interact with other people, for whatever reason.

I have considerable sympathy because I, too, have difficulties interacting with other people. But there's much more to it than "he's so smart that he's frustrated and bored with everyone and everything."

Then there's this:

" _Finally, a platform for those extraordinarily gifted people who failed to find a place in life could be helpful. Of course, high-IQ societies exist, but then most of their members appear to be rather successful and hence limited in their understanding of people who never achieved much, if anything, in life. Of course, sympathy and understanding is also present in many who did better, and exchange with those can also be very helpful._ "

Successful, intelligent people, particularly those who join "high iq societies", tend, in my experience, to have little empathy with those who they see as less intelligent, which is partially defined as less successful.

</comment><comment><USER47> I took and passed Algabra in the 6th 7th 8th and 9th grade. I slept in class usually didn't do the home work and got A's on most every test. But the teachers all felt I wasn't ready for harder math as they thought I wasn't mature enough. I didnt realize till years latter that this turned me from a bright excited student to lazy, lethargic and not wanting to challenge myself academically. Ended up graduating with a 1.8 gpa and a 1380 SAT score. Ended up joining the army, Infantryman, paratrooper and a Sergent by 21 years of age. Now I'm 34 and feel in some ways that if teachers had allowed me to progress and encouraged me earlier instead of being punished for not showing work or doing homework that was essentially busy work,I would have applied my self fully then instead of in the Army. As proud of I am of my service and having been a wartime team leader in the infantry at 21, maybe I would have gone to college first and not had to suffer from various medical and metal issues at the age of 34 from my military service. /rant over.

Edited for typos as I'm half blind and proffreding sucks.

</comment><comment><USER48> Contrary to the op's post there does exist tons of studies and literature for those very few high IQ children and teens with social problems.

The biggest and most wellknown study is the MHP Marburger Hochbegabtenprojekt from the 80ies.

First, the problem rate is very very low (the 0.1%): "The study concludes with popular stereotypes. As a result, characteristics such as outsiders, aggressiveness, concentration problems, which are often attributed to high- achievers and high-IQ teens in popular media, are mere prejudices."

[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marburger_Hochbegabtenprojekt](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marburger_Hochbegabtenprojekt) [http://www.angelfire.com/art/gregorbrand/Roststudie.html](http://www.angelfire.com/art/gregorbrand/Roststudie.html)

Another official german paper is "Zu Entwicklungsschwierigkeiten hochbegabter Kinder und Jugendlicher in Wechselwirkung mit ihrer Umwelt"

</comment><comment><USER49> Nobody mentioned Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD)?

<comment><USER50> I was surprised too, especially considering how hard it is to discern ASD symptoms caused by high IQ from high IQ caused by ASD. I fall in the middle of that Venn diagram, and unless there's some sort of miraculous scientific breakthrough in that area, I doubt I'll ever know for sure.

<comment><USER51> I had social anxiety. Got counseling around 3-4 years ago. Even though I was never formally diagnosed, my mother always thought I was somewhere on the Autism spectrum. Not enough to really hinder me at everything, but enough to make me socially incapable.

I've never taken an IQ test but I think I would score fairly high.

I've had a similar experience with the dumbing down in classrooms. (Probably many times before this but I have a memory that is totally shit at some things but great at others) So I'm taking a beginner programming class at college in python. About half way though the semester I finished the class barely working hard. I could have done in 2-4 weeks had I went through it as fast as possible. There was another session that was a bit faster but I was the first to finish by far. Some of the things other people struggled with kinda amazed me. Things I would do in 30 minutes to an hour they might take 3 plus days including the professor really helping them. Any time I tried to help, I quickly got frustrated since I wasn't going to tell them how exactly to do it. Also I taught myself nearly all the course material.

This was at an engineering/art/business private college (which only had a comp sci minor) which I'm transferring away from to do computer programming.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER52> The problem is they _knew_ they were smarter than everyone else.

When you've pulled a number that tells you you're smarter than everyone else, it becomes _really_ easy to use your IQ as a binky and disengage from reality. This will stunt your development in so many ways. It's the genetic lottery equivalent of squandering it all on coke and whores.

If we wanted to fix this, I think the first lesson in gifted classes should be: "You're a Special Snowflake, but life is still going to suck." Basically, teach them that the rest of the world only cares about you in terms of what you bring to the table, that no man is an island, and that bringing things to the table is usually a dirty job no matter how smart you are.

</comment><comment><USER53> With child prodigies often in sports, music, arts it easy to see and recognize the talent.

But 'smart' as a word out of context on its own is vague, subjective and can say many things.

How do we distinguish between 'smart' and those who may simply have a high opinion of themselves or are being pushed by parents with extra training, and the pressure itself on children of unrealistic expectations.

If you leave it vague you risk creating a whole victimhood mentality of individuals who think they are entitled but the world, schools, teachers etc has somehow conspired to deny them.

I think its important to be explicit in these discussion about terms like 'smart', their context and what is being referred to.

</comment><comment><USER54> I remember taking a programming course many years ago at a community college. I finished an assignment, which wasn't too hard, and decided to go on to an advanced, unassigned topic. The instructor came into the lab, and so I asked her to clarify something. She was visibly irritated with me and told me to stick to the assignment, then stormed out. I felt like a horrible person and kept asking myself "what is wrong with you?". Months or years later I realized I need to stop feeling guilty. I had not harmed anyone, and I think she did know the answer to the question I had asked.

</comment><comment><USER55> My experience in school matches that of "The Guy" pretty closely. To this day I still am not quite sure what to make of it; I went to private schools that were probably more challenging than other places I could have been, and I obviously learned a massive amount just being there doing _some_ of the work (to say nothing of the social education), but I just could not make myself care enough to get good grades, especially in classes where homework was weighted heavily.

It's not like I was doing anything worthwhile instead. Playing video games, mostly, and running around in the yard during the summer rather than completing the "summer math packet" and prescribed readings. I always doubly dreaded the end of summer, because I'd never done the homework. I think the constant dread of the moment of reckoning when homework was to be turned in, and I was empty-handed, gave me a serious sort of imposter-ish syndrome that persists to this day. Back then I was constantly having doors closed on me because of my slacking, and while I am quite successful now in my career I am still reticent to try opening doors because I'm wired to assume they will be locked.

Anyway, it turned out that I can actually be a functional member of society and a valuable worker (software engineer, natch). But my basic incompatibility with school made it a real crapshoot whether I'd get the opportunity to prove my worth; if it wasn't for a lucky break getting an internship referral from a professor who liked me, my life would probably look very different right now. I'd probably be dead, honestly; I don't take care of myself well when I'm in a depressed and aimless mode.

What to take away from this, I don't know (which is frustrating). I don't know what my IQ is, and I don't really care at this point in my life, but I'm certainly not the sort of scintillating Von Neumann-esque intellect that you hear about a lot in threads like this. I'm not sure what a path to some "school for the gifted" would have looked like for me, whether I would have been accepted or not, and whether that would have "unlocked my true potential" or just left me in the same situation with the added wrinkle of material so difficult that I couldn't BS through it anymore (I started to really run into this in higher-level university classes).

I _am_ smart, though, and I want to have kids and I assume they'll be smart too. I'd like to know how they can avoid the same pitfalls that held me back earlier in life, because if they can, I think they could be much more successful than I've been.

<comment><USER56> > I'd like to know how they can avoid the same pitfalls that held me back > earlier in life

There's a lot of studies around gifted kids that show that if you praise them for _results_ , they grow up like you (and me), very risk-averse, only applying themselves if they _knew_ they would succeed.

Instead, you should praise kids for effort. Reward work, not just punish non- work, as was done to you.

Even if you're clever, sometimes you just have to sit down and do boring-ass tasks, and it's a very useful adulting skill to have.

</comment></comment><comment><USER57> I'm currently facing this problem as a volunteer. I'm teaching coding to my son's 4th grade classroom and there are about 5 or so kids out of 30 who finish everything assigned really fast and have to wait for the others to catchup. On the other end of the spectrum, there are aoubt 4-5 kids who need some extra help while the rest of the class has moved on.

I'm not a teacher by profession but this little volunteer effort has given me a lot of appreciation for how hard the teacher's job is (and also what a insufferable little snot I must have been as a kid)

<comment><USER16> For the fast kids, create your lessons with extensions. You can google it for more details on how to do this skillfully, but an extension is basically building something extra onto your first task. Note that good extensions are not busy work -- they typically either lead to the creation of a cool product or they introduce a new and related concept. Either way, good extensions are ones that motivate the middle kids to try to get to the extensions phase.

For the extra-help kids, the best thing to do during class is to have them work with a friend who got it. Sometimes their peers can communicate the key ideas better than you can. After the class, you can review the problematic ideas with them and/or give them extra problems for them to work on (if they are interested). You will win them over if you can review those extra problems with them at a later time (e.g., before the next class).

</comment></comment><comment><USER58> I hate to sound trite, but intelligence (for which IQ is a proxy) is not only factor for success. Social skills will always be required - it seems like your two examples lacked these.

<comment><USER59> I actually think this is exactly the point. He is talking about how these people are highly intelligent but not successful because society isolates them and doesn't give them the opportunity and motivation to learn those skills in the appropriate window.

This is kind of the opposite of students that are underperforming that don't get the attention to help them keep up. Instead these are students that can overperform, but don't get the challenges, validation, and motivation - <USER2> general positive feedback - that will help them grow and succeed. Instead they are meet with disapproval and neglect since teachers both dislike them asking hard questions (thus challenging their authority among already hard to control kids) and don't have time to give them the attention they need (since they are most focused on the largest median group).

</comment></comment><comment><USER60> How could I meet these gifted, socially-isolated people? I'd be interested in Skype or Google Hangouts. Email me.

</comment><comment><USER61> I can relate somewhat. Good student, got good grades with about zero effort, did good in extracurriculars, but found most academic-related things to be very boring (it was mostly memorization of facts with zero critical thinking). Most of my friends worked menial jobs or sold drugs, and while I did graduate high school and stay out of serious trouble, instead of university I got a restaurant job and partied, abused alcohol and drugs and lived a pretty interesting life. Excelled at work, rising to the top of the local food scene very quick, then got married and went to university at the behest of my wife who didn't like the restaurant lifestyle. Well, married life was boring, got restless, eventually we fell out and split (she wanted the white picket fence and everything, I wanted to just experience life with a fun partner), now I travel, gamble, trade stocks and sometimes will do a stint at restaurants my friends own just because it's fun. Oh, and programming, the wife hated that, she didn't see the point in creating programs and scripts that didn't 'make money' (never mind all the stock-picking and economic-analyzing scripts that kind of did make me money...).

Guess the point is that a 'typical' life isn't for everyone. I can finish my degree rather easily and get a permanent office job, but why? I'd rather be in Paris one day, the Caribbean the next, abusing substances and partying with a bunch of hot girls than slaving away for a boss at a job that is comically easy, where I have to slow down just to avoid the onslaught of extra work there'd be if I were to actually give a shit and try.

And honestly, I have friends who have money and things. I have money, less things, and I don't really feel like I miss out. No house? No stress. My car is a 4 door compact and not a BMW with leather seats? It still drives, is warm in the winter, and has less problems. I didn't finish my degree? Half my friends with degrees are unemployed now anyhow thanks to the shit local economy. With more debt. Speaking of which, I live in a place where, to be honest, all the 'good' jobs which once existed for educated people are never coming back (the degree which I'm a semester away from completing is in Economics fyi).

People need to change their idea of what success is. The robots are coming for all your jobs anyway, we'll need to deal with it. In the future, either we'll all be engaging in intellectual pursuits living on a guaranteed income, or living in dystopian future where the holders of capital lord over the rest of us who scrounge for scraps in an alternative economy (look at Brazil to see how massive inequality manifests itself).

Anyhow, just the musings of someone who others say has under-achieved, but has stopped giving a fuck. We all die, 'success' is overrated. We need to get back to having relationships and living life.

</comment><comment> awinter-py these symptoms sounds like career burnout

</comment><comment><USER62> [2015]

</comment><comment><USER63> I would argue that discouraging very smart or technical people is typical for Western countries, and even more typical for the US. In Asian countries, the culture is much more favourable towards the smart and technical people (and, unfortunately, also much more competitive).

I always read a lot about the shortage of people in STEM fields, and teachers. The US education system is absolutely horrible. I had to explain how percentages work to a university student (not a bad university either). However, teachers still have a terrible salary, and teaching anything lower than university level is not a respected profession.

<comment><USER64> Teaching has a low salary because we have too many teachers. It would be strange to pay them more when there are already way more people who want to teach than there are jobs. The only reason to pay more would be to try to get higher quality teachers but I doubt an increase in pay will really increase quality much.

<comment><USER3> It might not increase quality initially, but it would make a difference in the long run. I know many bright people who don't consider teaching because they can have a much more comfortable life, both financially and bureaucratically, in other fields.

I also know many people who leave teaching early in their careers because of the relatively low pay and frustrating bureaucracy. I've been a teacher for 20 years. It was deeply frustrating early in my career to meet teachers who were near the end of their careers, did a terrible job, and got paid almost twice what I made.

This issue also varies widely throughout the country. I teach in Alaska, and pay here is decent. But there are parts of the country where I'd take a $20k+ cut in salary, without a corresponding cost of living change.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: How do you all deal with lack of motivation? - <AUTHOR> I remember being an extremely motivated and driven individual until 1-2 years ago. Then came a string of personal issues that turned my world upside down(including my realization that my father was a terrible abuser). Now that things are settled, I have a very strong urge to get up and chase my dreams again , however, I find this invisible force just not letting me do anything. I do not feel motivated at all.I wonder if anyone here has been in a similar state and how did he/she got out of it?<p>PS: I am a Coder <comment><USER2> Visionary, Discipline, Reflection, Release

VISIONARY

I don't care what random people think of me, I know what my dreams and aspirations are. I intend on getting there regardless if people support me or not. I've been told I couldn't do it many times in my life and that motivates me even further.

DISCIPLINE

Working out almost everyday forces me to be productive. Motivation is weak and short-sighted, you need discipline. Discipline in building a passion that you actually care about. This also means getting something done everyday. I keep a daily log and sum of my weekly snapshots of things I achieved that week.

I have two military-like disciplinary habits I never ever let go - this is daily journalling (mental) and workout out (physical). These two disciplines alone drive every other discipline I've reinforced, including time management, staying on track, keeping up with friends, etc. The moment I let these 2 habits go is the moment I start losing sight of what matters.

REFLECTION

You need to reflect on things you've achieved, it builds a sense of reward for the work you put in. This means sharing knowledge, sharing projects, sharing things you've done only after the fact with others. Whenever I get lost, I look back in my life and realize I've done way harder things that pushes me to move forward.

RELEASE

Write down what's holding you back. I'm impatient & stubborn, sometimes I get really annoyed at incompetent vendors and time-draining clients. I just let it all out in my daily journalling and sometimes I'll just write things on a piece of paper over and over again and then shred it to pieces.

Also, when I daily journal, I write exactly what technical challenges I face everyday. Then I write what 1-3 things I hope to achieve that day, usually its intuitive, I usually come up with it the same day.

When I get stuck I just write my thoughts down in journal form so I can analyze the situation a bit better.

<comment><USER3> How did you learn how to journal? There are countless quality resources for developing a solid workout routine, but I have no idea how to start a journal and every time I try, I have no idea what to write and there is no structure, which makes me give up after some time.

<comment><USER2> I went on a long tangent but let me answer your specifically:

I think its important to constantly experiment to see what works for you. Starting simple is usually best

I would take a moleskin notebook, and just treat 1 page of journalling = 1 day. Start doing this everyday. You'll soon realize how inefficient this is, and move onto something easier (e.g. a computer) for journalling

But you learned an important lesson on journalling, which is the commitment and discipline. I still journal this way, specifically my workout training logs. 3 full days of workout = 1 page in my notebook. E.g. legs/abs _(top of page)_ , chest/triceps/shoulders _(middle of page)_ , and upperback/biceps _(top of page)_.

Whenever I think of structure, I usually think of universal ways to organize things. There's two ways to organize things

\- TIME

\- PLACE

When you journal, or write blog posts, this is always TIME-based organization. This mean you organize things chronologically

PLACE is when you take notes for some computer science online course. Its always organized by some folder. You can sort these A-Z, that's also a PLACE parameter too.

Something that is organized by TIME, cannot also be organized by PLACE on the same level. You can organize a PLACE _(moleskin notebook)_ for your journal, and then on a sublevel by TIME _(each chronological page is new day)_

I hope this makes sense

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I don't think being a coder has anything to do with your problem. It is common across all lifestyles.

Personally I had several episodes in my life when even getting out of bed was far too much bother. Two things worked for me.

1\. Getting out of the house and going for long walks. Sometimes ended up sitting on some park bench and sobbing for a while. But then a bird would chirp, a toddler would stumble by or even an insect would buzz. When you hit rock bottom, there is only one way ... UP!

2\. Writing long rants in a spiral bound notebook. Pages and pages. I called it my "Bitch Journal". I would go through it from time to time and write over, scribble, etc. Amazingly it eventually gave me clarity on what was hurting the most and what I could choose to do about it. Many months later I burnt the damn book and it was a most cathartic experience.

When I feel down and unmotivated, I remind myself that it is darkest before dawn.

</comment><comment><USER5> These are tough days bro but hold on to any thread that keeps some spark going. A few things that helped me

* do only things that truly made you feel good even if you don't find joy in it now.

* take up work that is relatively easy for you so you keep seeing some progress.

* don't carry others burden

* lower expectations from others and yourself for sometime

* let your yes be yes and no be no

* if you are finding it hard to focus see a doc and convince him to give you some modafinil. Please promise yourself that you wont become an addict. (I pretended to have adhd and the doc prescribed me retalin, i am alergic to modafinil). This may not be good advice but it helped me not to loose my job back then. Now I have found my way to the otherside and I am grateful to that doc and that drug.

* find joy in simple things. Make sure to notice the trees around you.

* believe that you will find your inspiration again and you will.

Hope you find help.

</comment><comment><USER6> I had struggled with such problem as well. These are how I got out:

1\. Coming up with internal dreams. This is something internal that when I thought about, I'm convinced I'd like to accomplish it. Ideally this is something whose cause you truly believe in, instead of just short-term impulses. To distinguish the two is pretty easy. Impulses have short lives while dreams last long. Even when you try to forget it, at times you'd still think about your dreams.

2\. Make plans. When I got motivations from step 1 above, I don't code or execute right away. Instead, I create plan and list out what's needed to accomplish it. I know this isn't the most fun thing to do, especially when you're very excited about something, but I can't thank enough the plans I made.

3\. Create schedule. I force myself to spend 4 hours of productive coding every day. No matter how I feel, I have to spend at least 4 hours. Whenever I feel very unmotivated, I simply work like a robot following to the plans created earlier, regardless of my feelings. I always reminded myself that back when I was working in a company, I would do things I didn't like due to the sense of responsibility anyway, so why would I make excuses now? Interestingly, often I ended up spending more than the obligatory 4 hours because I ended up being very motivated after I forced myself to just do it.

4\. Exercise, stay healthy, and keep a balanced life. This is often overlooked, but this is very important. One can't just work tirelessly like a robot. It's much more sustainable when everything is balanced. It's like once you take enough vacation, you feel like going back to work and when you actually do, you're much more productive

<comment><USER7> Great list. I would put #4 at #1. Your body is where "you" happen. If it is unhealthy, it becomes harder to do things in general.

<comment><USER8> Since switching to a more healthy lifestyle, doubling or trippling the amount of exercise (walking, bicycling) I do, I feel 100x better than before and can do much better work every day. I also am able to stand up at 8am instead of 10am, just because my body is just so much fitter and ready to take on the day.

I can't emphasize this enough, take care of your body and the mind will follow.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Change your setting either with people or places. You're likely sitting at home or always on your computer doing the same thing. That's not helping anyone. If you change your setting it'll also change you personally. I echo everything else related to sleep, exercise, and diet, but besides that just go meet people or work out of different places. It'll work odd wonders because biologically you're predisposed that way.

</comment><comment><USER10> You got used to being unmotivated. As others mentioned before, you need a bit of discipline. But discipline alone is not the point. I would recommend using productivity techniques. Checklists might be to easy but getting things done or eat that frog are great methods. At the beginning it´s hard, but as you constantly use them, it will become a habit. And, for me, it´s a great feeling and boosts my motivation when I see what I have already finished or when I´m able to set one task to "done". I personally use getting things done and it really helps to stay focused, you can also use "time blocking" to concentrate on your tasks or to make sure you got time to do nothing at all.

If you need more info about all the methods, have a look at our blog, there are articles about many possibilities to boost productivity and enhance your motivation: [https://zenkit.com/en/blog](https://zenkit.com/en/blog)

</comment><comment><USER11> Something I started a month ago and works better than thougt:

Planning the week ahead.

Often I get home and don't wanna do anything suddenly. When I plan it, I come home with something specific.

Also I proactively think about people/friends I haven't seen for a while and ask them out to do stuff.

Strange thing proactively planning a week ahead, checking out events, movies, etc.

</comment><comment><USER12> What helps me most is to focus on the steps. This invisible force you describe is nothing that prevents you from doing anything (based on my experience, I can't know how you perceive it), but a step you want to skip, but are not able to.

You mentioned you have a strong urge to get up since everything is settled. Maybe this could be the invisible force?

You think (based on general believe how things should be done) that you need to get up since everything is fine, because that's what people do, right? Things are settled and you want to chase your dreams, thus this is what you need to do now, right? What else should you do?

You may stress yourself subconsciously which puts you in a vicious circle. If that could be the case, do something you enjoy, instead of chasing something.

But again, this is based on my experience, so I share my view, not telling you what the right thing is. I can't know.

</comment><comment><USER13> I find that the harder I try to force myself to code, the worse it gets. I like to try some other creative task that can get the juices going and then come back to coding when I have a really great idea. Obviously in a working environment this doesn't always work.

What _else_ do you find really motivating? Could be writing or painting or making youtube videos. It doesn't really matter as long as you're starting to engage creative muscles that you haven't flexed in a while.

</comment><comment><USER14> I've often found that lack of motivation is a symptom of some other problem. Often the direction you think you need to motivate yourself toward isn't the right direction, or sometimes there is a lot of FUD that's blocking natural motivation from shining through. We're inherently curious and excited creatures, so if you can find a way or area where that curiosity and excitement shines and unleash it without stress/worry, it flows naturally.

Byron Katie's work has been really helpful here for me to weed through + dismantle whatever is causing FUD that blocks motivation. [http://thework.com/en](http://thework.com/en)

</comment><comment><USER15> that seems to be a recurrent problem in the software industry, my suggestion here is to check "discipline beats motivation" ( [http://iheartintelligence.com/2016/11/17/discipline-beats- mo...](http://iheartintelligence.com/2016/11/17/discipline-beats-motivation/) ).

You don't need motivation, just discipline to build habits... everywhere will be a challenge if you lean on motivation.

( i also struggle a lot forcing myself to build discipline... )

</comment><comment><USER16> Exercise.

You don't have to run marathons. Start with 30 min walks every morning. (Outside helps). Work your way up to moderate exercise that gets your heart rate up.

It's amazing the difference it will make.

</comment><comment><USER17> I recommend (and already mentioned) journaling. In the journal, I visualize attaining the goal or write about ways to keep going.

Watch, listen or read stuff that motivates and uplifts you. And keep on doing it every day.

Try to motivate yourself every day and find what works. This quote sums up what motivation is, it is not something that is only done once:

"People often say that motivation doesn't last. Well, neither does bathing - that's why we recommend it daily." \- Zig Ziglar

</comment><comment><USER18> I take care of sleep, exercise, and diet. Then weekly sessions in therapy. I honestly don't believe you can be well adjusted without sleeping 8 hours, exercising 3-5 times per week, and trying your best to eat right.

If you think you're going to have a perspective shift without taking care of the basics...I doubt it. Take care of these fundamentals first. Then circle back in a month if you're still having issues.

</comment><comment><USER19> Even though you think you're ready, you may still need some down time. Find some way to disconnect completely from your daily responsibilities for a weekend or even a whole week to sleep, eat, and reflect.

If down time isn't working for you, you may need to start permanently removing or changing unpleasant things in your life. This can take a lot of creativity and out-of-the-box thinking and therapy can help here.

</comment><comment><USER20> Work with others.

Find likeminded individuals who can help you get to where you want to go. It's really difficult to generate significant traction on your own.

Doesn't have to be massive, I train once a week with a coach and some other folks and this motivates me to go to the gym for the six other days of the week.

My wife motivates me to do the best for my family. In my hobby I have others who rely on me.

</comment><comment><USER21> Noopept + caffeine at the beginning of every day, but this isn't golden bullet. So when I am totally unmotivated, this means I have to entertain myself. To do so I read popscience book like Randall Munroe's "What if" or watch sci fi movie. Also meeting with people who you can exchange coding experience and ideas is also great motivator.

</comment><comment><USER22> Get into therapy my friend, it will help in all aspects of life. It's not just for people who have mental illness or severe trauma. It's for all of us who have life experience that is unprocessed. I think it would be valuable for you if you went in to explore the roots of what interests you and what your underlying motivations are.

</comment><comment><USER23> Zinc supplements. It turned out I was seratonin and dopamine deficient due to multiple (6) genetic defects in my liver's zinc uptake genes, so whenever I was under duress, I'd run out of neurotransmitters and be unable to produce more.

<comment><USER24> How did you find out about these defects? Did you get a genetic test? And how much zinc do you take to compensate? Is it a mega dose?

<comment><USER23> I read a lot of scientific papers, then determined the common trace mineral supporting dopamine and seratonin production, then identified my genetic variations from societal norms with respect to zinc uptake and processing in various liver and brain pathways using those papers to narrow down with locations to check.

I already had genetic data available. Commercial tests would not have revealed an issue, as my variants have neither been proven benign nor harmful, and the unproven [1] correlations to autism are not yet included in testing. I was not certain when I bought the first pack of zinc cough drops whether they would affect me, but the only downside was temporary magnesium deficiency, which I'm already used to perceiving and treating.

I vary consumption of sublingual tablets based on whether I desire more metallic taste in my mouth or not, which I sometimes do. I vary my intake to include magnesium and copper-assisted zinc now and then. I prefer the dissolving tablets one at a time over a period of time so that I can develop a natural dislike for their metallic taste once I've consumed enough, but the same dislike develops using zinc-honey cough drops. I rarely use capsules (primarily for the copper variant) as they do not have a taste linkage for me to calibrate against.

Please seek professional medical advice. Increasing your zinc intake can have detrimental effects on your copper and magnesium levels, leading to bodywide soreness and/or death.

[1] Unproven due to only a couple papers published to date; no conflicting opinions existed, and no comprehensive analysis of autistic people has yet been performed.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Getting a deposit notification from my bank every other Friday works for me.

</comment><comment><USER26> I would highly recommend the 5 minute journal used in combination with the Pomodoro technique. The former will help you with the vision and the latter will help you with any procrastination.

</comment><comment><USER27> I changed my goal to something more immediate - getting out of the funk and focused all my attention on that. The obstacle is the way.

</comment><comment> time-traveler This is what depression is like.

</comment><comment><USER28> inertia. Easier to keep movement going than to start it.

</comment><comment><USER29> First, echoing what others say, and channeling Marcus Aurelius,

You have identified your obstacle: "this invisible force"

Now penetrate into it with your mind / feelings, discover what it truly is, in essence. What is it, in and of itself? Sit quietly, relax, clear your mind and think. How do you feel? What is this force? Keep penetrating into it more deeply until you see it clearly enough for your purpose.

Once you understand your exact situation with a useful amount of clarity, and connect with your feelings, I believe you will know exactly what to do and have the non-mixed-feeling motivation to do it.

That's the thesis. Now for the antithesis.

What if the following is true:

What if the dreams you had chased before, were to some extent formed as a response to, or to protect you from, or to compensate for, whatever happened to you. And now that you have dealt with and vanquished this issue in your life you have the following bipartite situation:

\- On the one hand, you are still motivated by what you have trained yourself to be motivated by for so long. And,

\- On the other hand, having killed the original motivation that gave rise to it, you have removed the impetus to do it.

Now what can you do in this situation?

I believe you already know. But here is what I think. You are at a crossroads. You can re-examine your values and motivations and see if what was once important, still is. You can recommit to, or now redefine your purpose. You may find that you end up deepening your commitment, or that you free yourself from what once drove you, and make way for the new purpose / motivation to enter your life.

Finally, for the curve-ball. What if this invisible force is just your intuition / the matrix / the signal line / a deep feeling trying to make its way to you and give you an important message about something in your life? What if it is nothing you expect but will be, once you open yourself to its message, completely surprising and very useful for you?

Okay, so it could be 1, a mix, or all of these things. Or something else entirely. You've got the thesis, antithesis (and curve ball for good measure), you make your own synthesis and solve your own problem / meet your own opportunity. Hope this helped you and anyone else watching. Have a great day y'all.

</comment><comment><USER30> I have the freedom to kill myself anytime I want, so if I am not doing that, I might as well do something "useful."

Also, it's not like being bored isn't boring, so might as well do something, even if it's equally boring.

PS: All the mundane stuff everyone else mentioned is a bare minimum for sure - do exercise, do plan things to do, do eat correctly and get enough sleep, etc.

<comment><USER31> This comes across as reductive. There is truth here but some sensitivity wouldn't go amiss.</comment></comment>


Android piracy stats after my first month on Google Play - <AUTHOR> http://www.simbettingfootball.com/2016/07/how-android-piracy-is-affecting-sim-betting-football/ <comment><USER2> I wonder if you have a higher rate of piracy b/c the app involves gambling?

Also, it boggles my mind that it could be so easy to fake a credit card. Isn't this something Google and CC companies should be preventing?</comment>


China's State-Driven Growth Model Is Running Out of Gas - <AUTHOR> https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-state-driven-growth-model-is-running-out-of-gas-11563372006?mod=rsswn <comment><USER2> For those who have not followed US media coverage of China, this a very enlightening piece : The Land that Failed to Fail.

[https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/11/18/world/asia/ch...](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/11/18/world/asia/china- rules.html)

I recall the New York Times, WSJ, and particularly Bloomberg from 2011 to 2014 have run uncountable number of articles unanimously, unequivocally predicting the collapse of the Chinese economy. I really hate to use the word "western media bias", but if you look at the facts, it's hard to see otherwise.

<comment><USER3> And The Economist. Can't forget The Economist's constant and sustained death knelling over China's economy over the years.

I just file all these away along with the other 8447372 similar articles predicting the imminent collapse of China.

<comment><USER2> Can you pls post some links. I'm a die-hard collector of these articles.

<comment><USER3> They are mentally filed away, so I don't have them off-hand sorry :)

But it was largely due to their lack of credibility on China that I had to unsubscribe. Open up any Economist article on China and you'll quickly see what I mean.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> This video from last year was pretty eye opening to me. Shows uninhabited "new" ghost cities completely crumbling. There's no underlying value to the property bubble going on over there and the scale seems mind blowing.

[https://youtu.be/XopSDJq6w8E](https://youtu.be/XopSDJq6w8E)

<comment><USER5> A lot of "ghost cities" that were reported on in the Western press are now thriving communities. Although some major property development schemes do end up becoming white elephants (particularly in the poorer north), most "ghost cities" aren't abandoned, they're just in the process of becoming occupied. Properties in China are normally sold as a bare undecorated shell, which makes new developments look derelict to western eyes. Clearly many of these projects are of dubious quality, but that problem is by no means unique to China.

[https://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2013/09/24/chinas- ghost-...](https://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2013/09/24/chinas-ghost-cities- may-not-be-so-spooky/)

[https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/apr/02/new-build- home...](https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/apr/02/new-build-homes- reputation-problems-developers)

[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47826166](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47826166)

<comment><USER6> > Clearly many of these projects are of dubious quality, but that problem is > by no means unique to China.

The cases I saw were more than dubious quality, the houses have completely fallen apart in only 2 years, there's definitely some "get rich quick" resell scam business going on in some places.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I was in China last month. Running out of gas is not exactly the analogy I would've chosen to describe the most thriving economy I have ever seen.

As a side note, I have visited many companies while there and the Tencent HQ was the most awe-inspiring building, leaving the Bay Area architecture and building amenities looking incredibly dull.

<comment><USER8> How much of China did you see? You could not gain a meaningful understanding of even a much smaller country from visiting a single city. E.g. NYC is not America, so Shenzen is not China.

<comment><USER7> I saw Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen and collaterally, Hong Kong and it was for business. Yes there were things I saw that showed the inherent poorness of the population but the overwhelming power of the industrial ecosystem and overall progress of the country despite "zero privacy" was breathtaking.

I have been talking with local about the privacy thing which was super interesting but it's off topic here.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Funny comment I saw on Twitter: you know things are really bad in China when even their own made-up figures aren't great

</comment><comment><USER10> Maybe a fun fact.

A Chinese colleague of me was telling me how much money is going out with every wave of western media coverage on China's future. They become worried and they invest abroad by buying assets or sending their children.

Then I saw some articles blaming Chinese buyers causing housing market issue in other parts of the world like Sydney, London, and Vancouver.

Remind me how everything is connected and how hard is to see the consequences of other actions.

<comment><USER11> I don't honestly blame them. Getting money and people out of a country is always going to be easier in the good times than the bad.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> China collapse has been predicted by china expert for at least 2 decades. I don't understand why people can still be this delusional at this moment.

<comment><USER13> This is my strong takeaway on China economy articles- most are enormously _wrong_ in their predictions, and not simply in a few random details; fundamentally they have been wrong about the China system collapsing for _years and years and years_.

I mean, sure, some day things will change substantially - change happens and the decades of doomsays will claim they were right all along. But that's stopped clock thinking. :-/

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Every time I read about China I never know it's just western propaganda or not (true vice versa ofc)

<comment><USER15> There's never a crisis until the crisis actually hits.

<comment><USER16> Till then make ad revenue off clicks on the future crisis.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> China's GDP is growing at 6.3%. What was the last time the US grew at even close to that rate?

<comment><USER18> > China's GDP is growing at 6.3%.

It's not clear to me the extent one can trust the official numbers from China.

<comment><USER19> Would you like to provide some evidence to the contrary for that or just a general "It's probably not true"?

You could say the same about Western government debt that's creatively accounted, unemployment rates which avoid underemployment/participation and inflation which desperately needs to remain low to keep bond rates from bankrupting public balance sheets.

<comment><USER20> China has been cooking the books on their GDP for years: [https://geopoliticalfutures.com/china-admits-its- statistics-...](https://geopoliticalfutures.com/china-admits-its-statistics- are-wrong/)

<comment><USER19> I'm talking about this figure. Asking for evidence to the contrary that it's not 6.3%. If so what do you think it is? 3%? 2%? Perhaps 6.1%?

[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-25/china- s-l...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-25/china-s-latest- official-gdp-report-is-accurate-no-really)

<comment><USER21> Newer research says it could be half the 6.3%.

[https://www.brookings.edu/wp- content/uploads/2019/03/bpea_20...](https://www.brookings.edu/wp- content/uploads/2019/03/bpea_2019_conference-1.pdf?mod=article_inline)

[https://www.scmp.com/economy/china- economy/article/2189245/c...](https://www.scmp.com/economy/china- economy/article/2189245/chinas-gdp-growth-could-be-half-reported-number-says- us)

<comment><USER19> Thanks, which page or figure on the Brookings pdf should I be looking at?

<comment><USER21> Try page 1:

"China's national accounts are based on data collected by local governments. However, since local governments are rewarded for meeting growth and investment targets, they have an incentive to skew local statistics. China's National Bureau of Statistics (NBS) adjusts the data provided by local governments to calculate GDP at the national level. The adjustments made by the NBS average 5% of GDP since the mid-2000s. On the production side, the discrepancy between local and aggregate GDP is entirely driven by the gap between local and national estimates of industrial output. On the expenditure side, the gap is in investment. Local statistics increasingly misrepresent the true numbers after 2008, but there was no corresponding change in the adjustment made by the NBS. Using publicly available data, we provide revised estimates of local and national GDP by re-estimating output of industrial, construction, wholesale and retail firms using data on value-added taxes. We also use several local economic indicators that are less likely to be manipulated by local governments to estimate local and aggregate GDP. The estimates also suggest that the adjustments by the NBS were insufficient after 2008. Relative to the official numbers, we estimate that GDP growth from 2008-2016 is 1.7 percentage points lower and the investment and savings rate in 2016 is 7 percentage points lower."

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> China seems to have found a workable system. It's not Marxist. It's not entirely capitalist. It's not democratic. But it has done pretty well.

Arguably, China has a more effective system of capital investment than the US does. The financial sector in the US is sort of a self perpetuating money machine, only vaguely connected to actually making stuff. (The biggest use of corporate debt is stock buybacks, for example.) That's not the case in China.

The US doesn't have an explicit industrial policy because the political system is too gridlocked to run one. China does. So does Japan, although less so than in the days of MITI. (The US does have an industrial policy, expressed through the tax code: services good, manufacturing bad. Borrowing good, dividends bad. Those are probably backwards.)

</comment><comment><USER23> Can someone tell me how the WSJ arrived at $13,888.96 for China's GDP per capita in 2018? Did they just make it up?

<comment><USER24> It's probably a roundish estimate multiplied by an exact exchange rate to USD.

I wonder if they still teach significant figures in schools.

EDIT: It also seems high unless they're using some sort of purchasing power adjustment.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> China is a fascinating experiment of modern state capitalism. But it is also reliant on globalism, and a recession crisis will be felt globally.

<comment><USER26> The globe is reliant on globalism, china is not unique in this case.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> The Wall Street Journal declares state Communism a failure.

</comment><comment><USER28> > Based on household surveys, the poverty rate in China in 1981 was 63% of the > population. This rate declined to 10% in 2004, indicating that about 500 > million people have climbed out of poverty during this period. [1]

> As of June 2016, the IMF warned the United States that its high poverty rate > needs to be tackled urgently by raising the minimum wage and offering paid > maternity leave to women to encourage them to enter the labor force.[21] In > December 2017, the United Nations special rapporteur on extreme poverty and > human rights, Philip Alston, undertook a two-week investigation on the > effects of systemic poverty in the United States, and sharply condemned > "private wealth and public squalor", declaring the state of Alabama to have > the "worst poverty in the developed world".[22] Alston's report was issued > in May 2018 and highlights that 40 million people live in poverty and over > five million live "in 'Third World' conditions."[23]

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_China#Poverty_reduc...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_China#Poverty_reduction)

[2] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States)</comment>


Insight on the iTunes App Review process - <AUTHOR> http://blog.flingsoft.com/post/932490184/insight-on-the-itunes-app-review-process <comment><USER2> It's kind of old, but that doesn't deter from the fact it is an interesting read. I am not an iPhone Developer, but wouldn't mind getting into it in the near future and it is cool to read about the process.

Side note: As a published Android Developer, the stark contrast between the app submission of the two is amazing to me.

<comment><AUTHOR> I hesitated about posting this because of the date, but it seemed that it had enough relevant content to warrant sharing it.</comment></comment>


IFTTT Needs Webhooks, Stat - <AUTHOR> http://blog.jazzychad.net/2012/08/05/ifttt-needs-webhooks-stat.html <comment><USER2> Posting my comment here as well:

We're definitely interested in powering the internet of things and webhooks will definitely play a part of that. It remains to be seen if we need to have a generic hook channel to make that possible. I suspect there's one at some point in the future, but I think there are some better ways to address the same problems in the short term that appeal to a broader audience.

As far as getting developers on board goes: [http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/24/ifttt-adds-box-and-plans- ne...](http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/24/ifttt-adds-box-and-plans-new-channel- platform-intended-to-connect-business-apps/)

And I can confirm that there is indeed a list of channels we want to build and that a webhook channel is on it.

<comment><USER3> There's a big strategic risk in you guys offering web hooks: it facilitates competitors piggybacking on your event detection and building high value response services that compete directly with your own. In other words, you become a piece of costly-to-maintain middleware and others capture the real consumer value.

<comment><USER4> Good point - it seems like they take this risk into account in the design of their service in a couple of other ways too, like in the triggered actions. For example, you can't send a message to an arbitrary phone or Google Talk account, only your own personal, verified accounts. It would be super useful if you could send more customized messages to anywhere, but then you could build entire services on top of IFTTT.

<comment><USER3> That is interesting. It seems like the safest thing for them to do would be to offer all of these features (including webhooks) in a "pro" offering which has a monthly fee (probably based on number of notifications). So they treat any developer who wants webhooks as a would-be B2B customer.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> An alternative: you can do this verbatim with Zapier [https://zapier.com/zapbook/twitter/webhook/179/post- twitter-...](https://zapier.com/zapbook/twitter/webhook/179/post-twitter- mentions-webhook/)

<comment><USER6> Nice SEO juice. Did you manually make that page, or are they auto-generated?

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> > Last night, I needed a way to be notified each time I posted a new tweet.

Mind. Blown.

<comment><USER8> Poor wording. It should be:

> Last night, I needed a way for a _webhook_ to be notified each time I posted > a new tweet.

Tweets can come from a variety of sources, so hooking in at the source isn't always possible or even reasonable.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes this is what I meant.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I couldn't agree with this more, opening up a general API would be a great step forward for IFTTT.

I recently also wanted to add integration with IFTTT for something I am working on. However, instead of writing a blog post and putting it on HN, I contacted IFTTT. They responded very quickly and were interested in helping me add my own channel if my project became a product. While this may not be as easy as providing open webhooks, I think it's a viable alternative which better fits their model of being focused on the end user, not developers.

</comment><comment><USER10> IFTTT seems to be appealing to the non-developer "configurator" person quite well, so maybe they don't want to complicate things by adding something so technical. I would guess you're feature request is not in the favorable half of the 80/20 equation for them as a business

<comment><AUTHOR> Could be. That was what my 2nd-to-last paragraph was about. I just think that opening up that output channel to let developers run free with event data will produce some very interesting and creative uses that perhaps IFTTT hadn't considered and let people create one-off solutions for services that IFTTT doesn't yet support (such as my need last night, which I solved (sadly) with yet another Twitter poller).

<comment><USER11> Your post should have then been "IFTTT should cater to developers" not "IFTTT needs webhooks." IFTTT's entire thesis is that non-developers should be able to 'program' computers. Just because you want webhooks and they would be cool doesn't mean IFTTT should work on features that go against the entire premise of their product -- and if you think they _should_ , this is the primary argument you should be making, not if they should be adding feature X or Y. Surely if IFTTT's target market shifted from the general public to developers, there would be many things developers would want, and webhooks is only one of them.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I think the "IFTTT is aimed at non-developers" argument is just dumb. Add a webhook channel, and people who don't know what webhooks are will just ignore it, the same way they ignore all the other channels for things they don't use. Noone is going to be more confused by the webhooks channel than they are already confused by the weemo channel.

Put a [for web developers] tag on it if you must, but a man shouldn't be denied steak just because a baby can't chew it.

<comment><USER2> We are a small, young startup and we have to be very particular about the things that we focus on. It's really hard to say "no" or "not now" sometimes. When I started one of the first things I thought for sure I would push for was a webhook channel. As a developer I want it myself. As I become more familiar with the people who use IFTTT I don't think it's the right thing to do for them right now. This doesn't preclude us from doing it in the future, but I think there are some better ways to solve the same problems that will cater more to the audience who has identified with the service.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I was interested in what webhooks are, but there was no link in the article. Aha! I thought to myself, I'll look it up on the internet, and behold there was webhooks.org, which I assume is its home. Going there I find no description of what it is, a broken link to the blog, and a wiki that does not exist. So I guess it's not ready for primetime?

<comment><USER14> Can imagine those sites suffered bit-rot once the technique became widespread, they're very useful, and there's not much to them.

A webhook is just a callback that notifies an arbitrary URL when an event occurs. A good explanation is here:

[http://timothyfitz.wordpress.com/2009/02/09/what-webhooks- ar...](http://timothyfitz.wordpress.com/2009/02/09/what-webhooks-are-and-why- you-should-care/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Hi, we are building something similar. We had a Kickstarter a few months back that did not reach our funding goal, but we are still forging ahead. [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/daisyworks/internet- your...](http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/daisyworks/internet-your-thing-0) \-- it involves connecting hardware / arduino like sensors / controls to an IFTTT-like system.

Thing is...there are two of us building this part-time with day jobs / families. We have a really good start, but we really lack the time / resources to take it to the next level. If you are interested in this kind of thing, please drop me a note at email@example.com -- I would love to recruit some more passionate people to get involved and make it into what _you_ want it to be.

</comment><comment><USER16> I love webhooks - they provide a neat portable layer between services and devices.

Currently I have Growl set up on my desktop computer and run a number of desktop programs that talk to it. I have Growl set up to ping Prowl (previously Notifo, RIP), which in turn does a push notification to my iPhone.

Things like getting an email directly to me, or having something fail my continuous integration build system, or even my son logging onto our home computer hit my iPhone, and it's _so_ damn easy to put together.

I was frustrated with the limitations of IFTTT - I still rely on it for a few things, but just running a simple .net program on my desktop computer that is on all the time gets me 90% of the way there. (Most of my use-cases are "if x happens, I want to know about it", the esoteric [to me] scenarios like saving every gmail to my dropbox or something are not interesting to me).

</comment><comment><USER17> Obviously it's a hack but it wouldn't be that hard to set up an IFTTT email alert to a dedicated account, parse the email for a specified code you set when creating the alert and then do whatever you wanted...</comment>


Baotou lake: The  massive sludge deposit for tech manufacturers - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150402-the-worst-place-on-earth

<comment><USER2> This is incredible. It's painfully clear that the negative externalities of the electronics we manufacture are not being accounted for at all.

I shudder to think what sort of long term environmental impact we shall face 15-20 years hence. Birth abnormalities, damaged water supplies, reduced IQs.

For a start I imagine better environmental practises will have to come into place - if only for economic reasons. I just hope it won't be too little too late by that time.</comment>


The Strangest and Most Tragic Ghost Towns from Around the World - <AUTHOR> http://io9.com/the-strangest-and-most-tragic-ghost-towns-from-around-t-1308304680

<comment><USER2> They missed out on Canada, which has such gems as Kitsault, BC ([http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-ghost- tow...](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-ghost-town-could- become-major-natural-gas-hub-1.1391052) ) recently bought by an entepenuer.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ghost_towns_by_country](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ghost_towns_by_country)

</comment><comment><USER3> They forgot about Agdam [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agdam](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agdam)

We tried to visit (it's illegal to go there), but for some misterious reasons it was all surrounded by military checkpoints, so we could only pass by. I envy those who managed to get there before.

<comment> mkr-hn They might use it to train for urban combat.

<comment><USER3> that was one explanation we were told. another one was some tourists stepped on a landmine. when there is too many rumors I call BS, especially when officials are all anal about it anyway.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> There are some slight inaccuracies in the article:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur- Glane](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane)

The wikipedia article is unclear on the exact number, but mentions two dozen or so survivors in total, rather than a single one.</comment>