Ask HN: Why are foreign funds investing in startups at ridiculous valuations? - <AUTHOR> Why are foreign funds like the Saudia Arabia's sovereign wealth fund and SoftBank's vision fund dumping so much money into US tech startups, giving them insanely high valuations. HN's very familiar with SOftBank and WeWork. I just read that Cloud Kitchens (Travis Kalanick's new startup) was valued at ~$500M in September of this year. 2 months later, the SA sovereign wealth fund invests $400MM at a $5BN valuation. Can someone who understands the dynamics of global economic forces explain what's happening? <comment><USER2> Well this certainly isn't the only reason, but a major one is that money is cheap. For example Europe has almost 18 trillion dollars of negative yielding debt. Interest rates in the entire western world except for America and last time I checked? Canada are returning negative yields after inflation. So as wealthy inequality climbs, and wealthy institutions have no where to put their money, it flows into riskier and risked assets chasing yield. I heard a funny quote something like: a decade of 0% real rates made the bond market your savings account, the stock market into the bond market, VCs into the stock market, and crypto ICOs into VC. It's essentially describing how low interest rates pushed the world into riskier investments because the traditional investment class returns 0-negative in real terms.

</comment><comment><USER3> Along with what kp98 mentioned, they're looking for the next Facebook, Google, Amazon, Alibaba, Tencent, et al. It's mostly that simple.

The returns that those companies have generated have been something beyond extraordinary. For example SoftBank turning tens of millions of dollars into ~$125 billion in Alibaba. Naspers bought 1/3 of Tencent for $32 million and that turned into ~$180 billion at one point.

SoftBank is willing to take N% of that $100b BABA windfall and vaporize it trying to generate the next $100b in returns (they won't be able to most likely, as China's 15-20 year boom is a one-off event that can't and won't be repeated).

They loaded into eg Uber because it was thought to be the next Silicon Valley homerun (which it was for some of the very early investors).

Travis Kalanick has a successful track record as a founder, selling Red Swoosh for $19m to Akamai and then Uber. The backers are betting Cloud Kitchens is perhaps at least a $20-$25 billion business at some point down the road. I doubt any sane person thinks it's the next Facebook, however it could certainly, potentially, be a relatively large business.

So Saudi Arabia buys 8%-9% or whatever at $5 billion. They're betting that they can generate a serious return from that valuation level (4%-5% at $25 billion for example; and if they're lucky, more). They aren't trying to play early VC, where you put in $1m trying to get a 200 fold return. They're looking to considerably beat the returns they can get on their money elsewhere, such as in equity markets, bonds, or even domestic industry.

Also keep in mind SA money is mostly dumb money. They're not at all competent to ascertain whether Cloud Kitchens even has the theoretical potential to be a publicly traded $100 billion valuation company one day. They're rolling the dice hoping to catch the next homerun. For the Saudis there's always more oil money, until there isn't.

</comment><comment><USER4> Trying to find returns in a low interest environment. Maybe also control and influence in the large companies of the future.</comment>


Differentiable Drawing - <AUTHOR> https://aexm.ai/blog/differentiable-drawings <comment><USER2> Interesting post and interesting project. Does anyone have a sense of how practical it would be to have architects and building engineers working on software development like this?

<comment><AUTHOR> Author here!

Currently, not at all practical. But that's why we think it's important to make education a part of the initiative. The idea is that we can make relationships between computation and design to have architects understand design as part of a larger family of analytical tools, and people from machine learning/software development understand how those tools can help with creating a physical thing that is distributed across time/space/etc.</comment></comment>


[UPDATE] Group chat sucks for programmers, so I fixed** the issue - <AUTHOR> https://www.we-hate-distractions.com/ <comment><USER2> Totally agree about the problem of interruption in basic messaging.

Mattermost added threaded messaging to avoid this, and at least for me it works really well: [https://www.mattermost.org/what-slack-might-learn-from- its-o...](https://www.mattermost.org/what-slack-might-learn-from-its-open- source-alternative/)

Anyone can look at the Mattermost product or code base to see how we added it --open to feedback on our implementation as well.

</comment><comment><USER3> Hipchat does this.... or am I mistaken. or mattermost?

Interesting to see what didn't work in the above ones? Also, what is with the pricing?

<comment><AUTHOR> ton of tools do similar things :-)

\</comment></comment><comment></comment><comment>

at the end of the day, this type of software always revolves around "I type stuff into a textbox, it shows up on someone's screen"

nothing too crazy innovative

everything out there right now just felt bloated as hell, and not cleanly designed around the concept of real-time, threaded conversations

you can create them in most tools, but you can also mow the lawn with a pair of scissors :)

you usually wind up with 2-3 channels that turn into huge spamfests, with a horrible signal-to-noise ratio, constantly begging for your attention (at the cost of interrupting whatever you're working on)

so I just got rid of all the crap that doesn't matter, polished what was leftover, and hopefully fixed a few nasty process issues along the way :)

\</comment><comment>---

an employee making $750/mo costs a little over four bucks an hour

I'd be willing to pay a high schooler half the minimum wage to make the aforementioned problems go away</comment>


Co-founder of Gokada found decapitated, dismembered inside New York condo - <AUTHOR> https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-headless-torso-found-manhattan-20200714-rz25uxzsejgrxnsk4rd22vf7hq-story.html <comment><USER3> Wow, I went to school with Fahim at Bentley University. Although we shared friends, I didn't know him personally. I did take computer science classes with him and it was clear he was one of the most talented students in the program. This is so unbelievably sad and shocking. My heart goes out to his friends and family.

</comment><comment><USER4> > The condos in the building are full-floor and the keyed elevator opens right > into the apartment.

Doesn't this mean that anybody with the [widely, publicly known] FDNY elevator override key can get right into the apartment? I've seen far too many physical pentesting talks (i.e. any at all) to trust a setup like that for my home in a city.

<comment><USER5> Would you have a house with windows on the street? Do you walk outside without body armor and a bullet proof vest? Get in a cab... without knowing the driver or having bullet proof glass?

Society wouldn't be very fun or fruitful if we all lived in secure underground bunkers.

<comment><USER6> Welcome to life outside of developed countries. This is life even for some countries considered 'developed'.

<comment><USER7> While there is _some_ correlation of murder rates and GDP, it's rather noisy: [https://wernerantweiler.ca/blog/2017-10-04-a.pdf](https://wernerantweiler.ca/blog/2017-10-04-a.pdf)

The GINI seems to be a somewhat better fit: [https://i.imgur.com/vYSsLMw.png](https://i.imgur.com/vYSsLMw.png)

<comment><USER8> I am not convinced by the gini fit. There must be something else. Apart from that: because of not keeping up with stats, i always thought that south africa has the most murder per capita (apart from war zones). What has happened: Jamaica is almost double. Did SA get better or did central america take a significant slide downwards?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> How horrible. Why would someone do this? I'd never heard of Gokada, it looks like such a cool thing for a developing country.

I wonder what the motivation was. It doesn't seem like a market where there'd be the political pressure to assassinate someone. Maybe if there was someone trying to rethink the way pharmaceuticals or something, I could understand a CEO getting chopped into pieces by some shadowy figure, but ridesharing? It benefits everyone to carpool and use fewer cars to get people from place to place.

Ugh. God bless his family.

<comment><USER10> It's worth noting that there was a sudden & pretty draconian regulation passed early this year that gutted Gokada's primary business (ridesharing on motorbikes). He was very passionate in his disagreement with the government's decision. The company pivoted pretty neatly (in my opinion) to last-mile deliveries instead - the pandemic certainly helped drive demand - <USER2> currently there's morbid speculation that potential financial struggles on Gokada's part might have been a factor in his murder. There's also the possibility of someone in power being displeased at how vocal he was about the regulation.

<comment><USER9> Okay, to play devil's advocate for a moment.

What is there to gain financially from killing him, if his previous business was gutted by regulatory changes?

The killer was evidently belonging to a highly capable skillset, and I'm extrapolating that they very nearly got away with his body in tow, and nobody would've been the wiser.

Could they not have kidnapped him and ransomed the company? If there's financial qualms on the board, I just don't understand why they'd just kill him then. If they went to deliveries, does that mean other delivery couriers are to be scrutinized?

Maybe he was involved with something dirty?

If it was a state agent of Nigeria that is responsible, idk, that'd be geopolitical suicide, putting hits out on private entrepreneurs across national borders...

Of course, had they gotten away, it may have seemed as though he just vanished, which I suppose is the ideal scenario for a state-sanctioned killing.

Ugh. This is beyond horrible all the way around.

<comment><USER11> >that'd be geopolitical suicide

Saudi Arabia seems to be doing fine last I checked.

<comment><USER12> Saudi Arabia carried out an extrajudicial killing in a small, neighboring state. This was carried out in the US. And for all intents and purposes could be considered an act of war against a state that has an unlimited war chest.

<comment><USER13> Turkey isn't small in any way. It's a regional powerhouse.

<comment><USER14> Not to mention and I guess a lot of people dont know this but Turkey was one of the main allies of the USA not too long ago for quite a while at that. It was quite a strategic alliance too. Just look at Turkeys neighboring countries sometime.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey%E2%80%93United_States...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey%E2%80%93United_States_relations)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Uh wow, I never heard of this company or person, but this is horrible and tragic. However I just read "The Upstarts", the 2017 book about AirBNB and Uber.

It specifically mentions that 2 rideshare leaders felt their lives were threatened by local competition. I believe it was the original founder of Seamless in NYC, and an early executive at Uber, I believe when they were launching in NYC. Apparently it's not uncommon for taxis and limos to be have connections to local crime.

I have no idea if that happened here, but I've also never heard of a story like this in the tech startup world.

<comment><USER16> Escobar owned all taxis in Medellin

<comment><USER17> Our president's former attorney owned a taxi business:

[https://www.npr.org/2018/05/13/610849891/michael-cohens- trou...](https://www.npr.org/2018/05/13/610849891/michael-cohens-troubled- taxi-business)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Looks like Gokada had investors in America, South Africa, and Dubai[1], did most of their motorcycle ride-hailing business in Nigeria, but Nigeria recently banned passenger motorcycles which was obviously a huge blow to the business.

His investors probably weren't too thrilled seeing him live in a multi-million $ NYC condo shortly after their substantial investments tanked.

[1] [https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/gokada#section- inves...](https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/gokada#section-investors)

<comment><USER19> They could have abducted or blackmailed him but killing him like that makes no sense from an investors POV, they get nothing back and the risk of getting caught.

Hope he will get justice

<comment><USER20> They get him dead, which can enough for some particularly evil people with a grudge.

Look at e.g. (probably) the FSB poisoning Litvinenko, six years after he fled to the UK. After six years there wasn't much to gain for the FSB other than making an example out of him and retribution.

<comment><USER19> Yes but this is diferent though. Those were ex spies who "talked" and wanted to send a message to other spies as in "if you talk we'll find you anywhere".

<comment><USER21> The same could be said that if you don't make good on investments or "the take" if there was one, you are handled.

Not saying I agree, but I can see where the circumstances aren't different.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> The terrible tragedy of the incident aside, graphic details hint at this being a very costly signal. The sender(s) of the signal must feel threatened, but generally consider themselves immune to American law enforcement.

Although many circumstances are unknown to me, at first approach this looks like a sad illustration of the intense frontier between new business models powered by emerging technology and entrenched business interests in many parts of the world.

Judging by Gokada's business model, the signal is probably intended to deter any further attempts at competing with local taxi and limo businesses.

</comment><comment><USER23> Fahim Saleh was born in Saudi Arabia and was killed in a manner that "appeared professional" and then dismembered.

This could easily be an atrocious crime by an individual or related to — for instance — organized crime in Nigeria, but it is sobering that one of the usual suspects when something like this happens is a state actor.

<comment><USER24> I'm not a defender of Saudi Arabia but besides him being born there how is it relevant? He does business in Africa and was educated in and lives in the US. Is there any indication he was a anti-Saudi activist? I don't see any so why should that be brought up at all?

<comment><USER23> I haven't found any indication that he said anything against the Saudi regime. I brought it up because he appears to have been executed according to a professional (if bungled) plan reminiscent of the murder of Jamal Khashoggi by the Saudi state. I think it merits contemplation any time anyone with Saudi connections is professionally murdered and dismembered.

<comment><USER24> Sure but Khashoggi was a very high profile Journalist and Activist and that happened on Turkish soil. An assassination like that in the US would be a dramatic change in their behavior and politically very hazardous.

<comment><USER25> lol. dude, Turkish goons beat the shit out of American people in front of cameras and got way with it.

<comment><USER26> I would just like to add, on American soil.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Probably too early to speculate on motives but it's interesting to me that he was running a Nigerian tech company. Wonder if he stepped on the wrong person's toes. It looks like authorities were trying to shut it down on some trumped up safety disputes (which likely means they were not giving out enough bribes)

<comment><USER28> Motorcycles kill thousands every year in Nigeria. It kills more than cars and buses combined. Such business has been banned virtually in all state capitals in Nigeria for about a decade ago. Lagos state was the only major state where such was functioning until lately.

<comment><USER29> This is false. The ban was more political than a safety issue.

<comment><USER28> Why would you say that? The state wants to modernise and they decided to do away with something that is not safe.

Could you explain the political side in it? We already had motorcycles in Lagos because Gokada arrived on the scene. A lot of other okadas owned by thousands of people were also knocked out. Even keke

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Drove by the scene yesterday afternoon and there were reporters and camera crews extended into the street. A ton of commotion and now I know why.

I think this is getting more attention than it deserves because its ripe with "what ifs" that allow one's imagination to run wild. Politically motivated, absolutely brutal, and in an environment that is designed to shield one from any harm. My heart goes to his family and friends - no matter what someone has done in life they don't deserve this ending.

</comment><comment><USER31> I knew Fahim, met him several times and hung out with him when he was investing in Pathao and HackHouse in Bangladesh. He was the type of person who would hang out with you having beers and you'd be shooting the shit about an idea for a startup and he'd end up going home, writing up the code all night and send you a link in the morning with a registered operating version of the site. He dealt with a lot of the same issues of shady regulators, broken ecosystem back then in Bangladesh but having his roots from there may have made things easier to navigate. Uggh I still can't believe how gruesome this is. I'm devastated for his family, the world is a horrible place a lot of times.

</comment><comment><USER32> > The death was not immediately labeled a homicide, and a Police Department > spokesman said that the medical examiner's office would determine the cause > of death.

Umm. I think it's safe to rule suicide out when the corpse was dismembered with a saw.

<comment><USER33> There have been cases where people have committed crimes (often on the books as "desecration of a human corpse") while trying to cover up accidents or suicides. Not saying it's the case here, but there's no point in jumping to conclusions.

<comment><USER32> You are correct. It was a poor (and in poor taste) attempt to be snarky.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> "Police source say a business deal gone bad is being investigated as a motive for the killing. There's no indication that NYPD detective are eyeing past controversies involving PrankDial."

Seems like some other moving pieces in play with his past startup.

"The tech bro found sliced into pieces in his $2.25 million Lower East Side condo made a name for himself by creating a prank phone call app that led to the downfall of a Hudson County, N.J. jail honcho."

[https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-prankdial-app- hudson...](https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-prankdial-app-hudson- county-jail-wiretap-case-20200715-57qvtdrdjfcfhixhcxdj3t4a6u-story.html)

<comment><USER35> Describing him as a "tech bro" in the first line is needlessly derogatory. Implying he deserved it. Like calling a rape victim "scantily clad." Pretty gross journalism if you ask me: designed to create outrage and drive clicks.

<comment><USER36> They also refer to his startup as "Gorkada" multiple times. If they managed to screw that up, I don't have a lot if faith in the rest of the article.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> It reminds me of the killing of Jamal Khashoggi ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamal_Khashoggi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamal_Khashoggi)), and then this appears in the article. Coincidence?

> According to a 2016 blog profile, Mr. Saleh was born in Saudi Arabia, and > moved with his family quite a bit before settling in Rochester, N.Y., and, > later, in Poughkeepsie, N.Y.

<comment><USER38> With Khashoggi we had a clear motive for the killing, though. It's not at all clear who wanted Saleh dead, and in particular why Saudi should be involved at all. It's merely where he was born, not the target of his opinion writing (note also that per the article he's Bangladeshi ethinically, not Saudi).

<comment><USER39> The Saudi government is corrupt AF and doesn't need much in the way for justification for killing people?

Also the US leadership is so incompetent at the moment, seems like a good time for other countries to do whatever TF they want.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> Update: "..a personal assistant of a young tech entrepreneur ... was arrested early on Friday and is expected to be charged in the grisly killing."

Lots of prior speculation, but this early arrest will be some small comfort to his family and friends.

</comment><comment><USER41> > _Inside the man 's living room, sources say it appeared the killer worked > hard to cover their tracks, but was perhaps interrupted or got spooked > before getting rid of the evidence._

Uh, those luxury apartments have cameras _everywhere_. Why would they think they could cover anything?

<comment><USER42> The camera probably doesn't matter too much if you have a mask. It's probably more important to remove physical evidence than to worry about additional video evidence.

<comment><USER43> And wearing a mask in public is perfectly normalized in New York right now, so it doesn't even draw any unwanted attention.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> Why has nobody pointed out that we need ways to launch products anonymously. When one coder can upend a market that is controlled by mafia, that one coder needs a way to remain anonymous.

The problem is that to publish an App with Apple or Google you cannot be anonymous, correct?

<comment><USER45> Accepting payments is another problem, but the most important one is taking investment and hiring people.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> This story broke in the early hours of the morning here. Deeply horrific stuff; my heart particularly hurts for his sister.

The manner of his death is ominous. For the sake of the people it employs and the businesses it enables, I hope Gokada weathers this.

</comment><comment><USER46> [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/17/nyregion/fahim-saleh- susp...](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/17/nyregion/fahim-saleh-suspect- tyrese-devon-haspil.html)

[https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/17/us/fahim-saleh- killing/index....](https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/17/us/fahim-saleh- killing/index.html)

</comment><comment><USER47> There's a lot of speculation going on here, and I do not think it helps. I feel incredibly sorry for his family, especially his sister. I cannot even imagine what it would be like to walk in on a family member murdered in such a brutal fashion.

</comment><comment><USER48> What a tragedy. If this has ties to any foreign business or government entity, I truly hope that the U.S government and military forces take swift and lethal action.

Sometimes I feel like this is the sort of thing where the justice system and public media just don't work... send some SEALS to knock out whoever did this. It reminds me of the type of thing that happens with central american drug lords.

I wish the article talked about such political issues instead of the weird sort of implied schadenfreude with regards to his material possessions and postings on instagram.

<comment><USER49> 1\. Are you advocating for committing an act of war in response to this?

2\. Jamal Khashoggi was similarly butchered and there's little doubt about the perpetrator's identity, yet we still trade with them and accept their VC money for our tech startups. I wouldn't hold my breath for a serious response unless the perpetrator turns out to be a government we already don't like.

<comment><USER50> I think that the FBI and our government should use every tool at their disposal to find the killer(s) and their sponsor and bring them to justice. If the perpetrators are sheltered by an uncooperative country, then we should apply diplomatic pressure.

All murder is tragic and horrible. I think that assassination—of journalists, entrepreneurs, activists, and so on—to be an especially abhorrent category of murder, because it is intellectual terrorism and has an outsized impact. A single murder is a tragedy to a family, a community — but a single assassination is a tragedy to all of society. The plausible fear of being killed for challenging an industry incumbent, a corrupt politician, or an unscrupulous business places a sword of Damocles above any would-be upstart. It pre-emptively silences voices and minds and reduces a society's capacity for progress.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> The amount of speculation in the comments is surprising for HN. There are very few facts established so far.

What a tragedy. God bless his family.

</comment><comment><USER52> Can you imagine the maladaptive psychology required to wield a knife to calmly dismember, decapitate and butcher another human being?

<comment><USER53> They're called pathologists and they usually do autopsies. [0]

[0][https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6288235/Saudi- autop...](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6288235/Saudi-autopsy- expert-butchered-Jamal-Khashoggi-trained-Britain.html)

</comment></comment><comment><USER54> [https://archive.is/ltGpQ](https://archive.is/ltGpQ)

</comment><comment><USER55> A stringer captured this video below of a similar incident that happened recently in New York. Could this be related/ him?

[https://youtu.be/iJIImjO9lVw](https://youtu.be/iJIImjO9lVw)

<comment><USER56> Looking at the address on Street View, it definitely appears to be the same building.

</comment></comment><comment><USER57> What's up with the real estate byline?

<comment><USER58> I think it was like, "Oh my god rich people can die"

</comment></comment><comment><USER59> His company's wikipedia page is being edited to remove any mention of his death. Quite suspicious

<comment><USER60> More like one user made a single revert that will soon be reverted.

</comment></comment><comment><USER61> The focus on the cost of the victim's dwelling is so weird. I hope when they find my body they don't waste half the article projecting local housing policy onto me, as if it were my fault.

<comment><USER62> Poor people get murdered all the time, a rich person getting murdered is newsworthy.

<comment><USER63> If a poor person were murdered like this, it would be newsworthy.

The fact that this may be a politically charged murder makes it even more newsworthy.

<comment><USER64> > If a poor person were murdered like this, it would be newsworthy.

> The fact that this may be a politically charged murder makes it even more > newsworthy.

No, it wouldn't be. And I can tell you why.

A suitcase stuffed with parts from two (recently) dismembered bodies was found on a Seattle beach two or three weeks ago. [1]

Neither of the deceased were tech entrepreneurs, and, unsurprisingly, this did not make Hacker News, nor more than a whisper on the national media circus. I presume you haven't heard about it, either.

Now, tell me, was that also a politically charged murder? [2] What makes you immediately ascribe the politically charged label to the tech entrepreneur case?

[1] [https://www.google.com/search?q=akai+beach+suitcase&oq=alki+...](https://www.google.com/search?q=akai+beach+suitcase&oq=alki+beach+suitcase&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l2.3844j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)

[2] Hell, Seattle stopped talking about it after a few days.

<comment><USER65> > Neither of the deceased were tech entrepreneurs, and, unsurprisingly, this > did not make Hacker News,

Why did you expect? This is a community of programmers and tech entrepreneurs. We get articles all the time on the front page about deceased programmers, computer scientists, and tech entrepreneurs. This poor guy was a tech entrepreneur.

<comment><USER66> You removed from the OP quote:

> nor more than a whisper on the national media circus. I presume you haven't > heard about it, either.

<comment><USER65> I was addressing his specific insinuation about HN. If this was just about national media, why even mention HN otherwise in that comment?

No, the clear implication was that there was some kind of double standard in HN here.

I'm not addressing the rest of his comment, which may or may not be true. But the first part is clearly misleading, or at best uncharitable.

Finally, the full comment is available for all to see by looking up exactly a quarter screen. I didn't "remove" anything-I pulled the quote pertaining to the issue that concerned me.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER67> This may be socio-politically related. Extremists from Bangladesh (his original country) are known to use hacking and dismemberment as a terror tactic.

</comment><comment><USER68> > Condos in the building feature Italian marble kitchens and master baths, > white oak floors and asking prices in the $2 million to $2.5 million range, > according to the real estate website StreetEasy. The website Curbed noted in > a 2017 article that access to the building's units was via a private, keyed > elevator.

This is such a strange paragraph to read in an article like this. I see the relevance of the last sentence, but the rest just feels jarring. Is that normal for pieces like this?

<comment><USER69> The whole article has this weird tone like it's part of a hard boiled detective novel: "You kind of forget New York City is New York City sometimes," she said.

I like hard boiled detective novels, but it felt weird here when I reminded myself this isn't a short story, this is a real man who was just murdered with family and friends and neighbors.

<comment><USER68> The byline has three names. Including an editor, does that means four sets of eyes saw no problem or had no concern with how this piece was presented? It's such an unfortunate event and I can only imagine how many people will be directly impacted by it. The tone is just so jarring.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER70> We changed the url from [https://abc7chicago.com/ny-tech-entrepreneur-found- decapitat...](https://abc7chicago.com/ny-tech-entrepreneur-found-decapitated- dismembered-inside-luxury-condo/6318409) to one with more information and no autoplaying video.

If anyone can suggest a better URL, we can change it again.

<comment><USER10> As far as I'm aware, this is the article that broke the story: [https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny- headless-t...](https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-headless- torso-found-manhattan-20200714-rz25uxzsejgrxnsk4rd22vf7hq-story.html). I first saw it around 5AM Lagos time. As a bonus there's no paywall.

I am not sure but I think the coverage might come across as a bit tabloid-y however.

<comment><USER70> Ok, we can change to that from [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/nyregion/dismembered- body...](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/nyregion/dismembered-body-houston- street-manhattan.html). Thanks.

<comment><USER71> Maybe not a consideration, but nydailynews is not available from Europe.

<comment><USER54> [https://archive.is/ltGpQ](https://archive.is/ltGpQ)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER54> [https://archive.is/lcz7t](https://archive.is/lcz7t)

<comment><USER72> That snap was 18 hours old and was lacking new details (like it being the co- founder of Gokada).

Here is an updated link: [http://archive.is/7LbxX](http://archive.is/7LbxX)

</comment></comment><comment><USER73> I can't read this article because "abc7chicago.com wants to install and run Widevine"

As to the newsworthy debate, yes, the death of a person that is of a greater relative value to society (such as for eg a tech entrepreneur) is more newsworthy than otherwise (such as for eg a homeless person).

<comment><USER70> We've since changed the URL. ([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23848620](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23848620))

</comment></comment><comment><USER74> As an immigrant founder of a small company, America no longer seems to me like a safe environment. The entire political culture has become nothing short of toxic, and crimes like this out in the open makes you question why would an immigrant come to US to start a business if they can get murdered like this? The fact that this happened in one of the safest areas in New York, makes you wonder if city life even worth it? May be he should have owned a gun? So many questions.

Hope his family finds some answers.

<comment><USER75> How is an immigrant status related to (presumably) business/political issues the victim had? Do you believe that it is safe _anywhere_ when you make deals and conflicts with people whose values do not include lives? Remember terrorism acts in both US and EU in last two decades. I'm assuming you're honest in your anxiety, but this rhetoric sounds just alarmist. As if some cityname was equal to a bunker-like safety zone and not just street-crime protecting area. What did you expect from local authorities to do to prevent his sudden murder? Put a wall around the city and profile everyone for a week to allow an entrance? Nobody and nothing can protect you from a random professional hitman, neither a personal protection service nor a gun, but as a regular person who does a legal business in a first world you're damn safe everywhere.

</comment></comment><comment><USER76> I watched a documentary about this once, it really started Christian Bale's career.

<comment><USER70> Please don't do this here.

</comment></comment><comment><USER77> I suspect he owes money to criminals

</comment><comment><USER19> RIP Saleh Fahim.

They have a CCTV video with the murderer but unfortunately he had a mask on. During the pandemic killers can operate with a cover, the mask, gloves, etc

Does anyone know if theres a lead to who the murderer is?

</comment><comment><USER78> So police don't even know the cause of death, or anything else, but they do know they have video of the "killer"? I wish I were clairvoyant like this, but otherwise, may I never come under investigation from those people.

<comment><USER10> If you read the news coverage it's extremely clear why they think they have video of the suspect (and it's not clairvoyance). The first few moments of the attack were captured in surveillance footage.

<comment><USER79> But this specific article makes no mention about it.

<comment><USER10> Personally I think it common sense that an out-of-state, local paper (the article is from ABC 7 Chicago) can hardly be taken as a primary source in a developing crime story - hence why I said "news coverage" and gave details.

<comment><USER80> Local papers are just about the best possible news source you can have. Not to mention they are the actual primary sources that your nebulous 'news coverage' would be relying on.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER81> WTF!

That's too damned grisly. I mean, sure maybe people snap in the heat of passion whatnot, manslaughter —it happens but this is just depraved. I hope they get the person and they get what they deserve. There is no chance for such a person to redeem themselves and join society ever again. Very sad for the victim's family. Tragic.

<comment><USER82> It was a professional hit job given the description here...the killer was wearing gloves, a mask, had an empty suitcase and rode the elevator with the victim to his apartment.

The hitman was likely doing a deed for someone who paid for his service...

<comment><USER83> Not sure why everybody is suggesting a professional hitman based on the fact the murderer used a mask, gloves and a suitcase. I suppose you get that idea after watching an arbitrary crime movie. All it proves is intention.

<comment><USER82> How could it not be professional? What would it be otherwise?

The other clue is from the articles I've read is that there was no blood. No average person with a bone saw is going to be able to pull that off. Sorry.

<comment><USER83> > What would it be otherwise?

A guy with a plan and a regular job?

<comment><USER82> I don't know why you think it's less conspiratorial to believe this was just a regular joe vs a professional hit man. He had an electric saw and empty suitcase. left no blood and few clues.

didn't take anything from the apartment either.

a regular joe who wanted to do this would've just shot him.

<comment><USER84> The story very much reads like a hit for sure. It sounds like he was interrupted because the neighbor called from hearing the screams and loud noises. I would imagine if he had another hour the body would have left the scene in the man's suitcase and the apartment would have looked spotless.

<comment><USER85> It surely means it's highly premeditated, but doesn't necessarily mean it's a hitman. The Stephen McDaniel case is an example of a boring-seeming law student showing similar levels of planning when murdering and dismembering a woman he was stalking.

The fact that there were screams loud enough to concern neighbors could suggest it wasn't quite so professional. If it were a professional hitman, why not use something guaranteed to instantly and silently incapacitate him, first, then focus on cleaning up the evidence? Or did they try to, but it didn't go as planned?

One possible explanation would be that the goal was to send a message (to him before his death, and others after it), not to try to make him disappear without a trace. Though, either way, it doesn't necessarily mean it was a professional hitman.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Kill Whitey. It's the Right Thing to Do. (2010) - <AUTHOR> http://www.wired.com/2010/09/kill-whitey-its-the-right-thing-to-do/ <comment><USER2> How disturbing...</comment>


Paralyzed Rats Walk Again - <AUTHOR> http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20090920/hl_hsn/paralyzedratswalkagain <comment><USER2> "Paralyzed Rats Walk Again"

Maybe there's hope for the record labels after all.</comment>


Linux 20 Years: Anecdotes from 1998 - <AUTHOR> http://liw.fi/linux-anecdotes/

<comment><USER2> _One of his well-known quotes is: "Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it."_

That strategy turned out rather well, I'd say.

<comment><USER3> I really liked that quote, too, but what do you mean turned out rather well?

<comment><USER2> Linus repeats this line WRT distributed systems during his famous talk about git:

 _"I have a theory about backups; I don't do them. I put stuff up on one site and everybody else mirrors it."_

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XpnKHJAok8#t=17m4s>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Yes, it was an amazing time. I started with the Yggdrasil distribution

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil_Linux/GNU/X>

which ran (I think) pretty happily on a Dell Dimension 486DX2 with a fairly small drive, 300 MB or so.

Even then, with getting X running being kinda tricky, Linux was a big step up from Windows 3.1 and all the contortions you had to do to free up base RAM whilst stuck in the crappy memory model.

<comment><USER5> I started with the root and boot disks - then moved onto the Soft Landing System (SLS) disk set. From that to Slackware on 100 odd disks.

I remember getting a pal at Cambridge University (nice fat pipe to the hosting sites) to email the disk images as uuencoded files to me where I was working - in 64Mb slices requiring tedious extraction and reconstruction. My employers didn't really get the internet and even their email was on the X400 suite rather than SMTP. Awful given that they were a major international computer company.

I still think it's a shame that Linux missed their first big chance. At that time Windows For Workgroups 3.11 was the de facto standard. Linux was a massive distance ahead in most respect but didn't have the applications. It kept that lead until NT 4.1 came out and it's only recently with the Ubuntu distributions and the general move to web applications that I've started to be hopeful that it can finally displace Windows.

Which is a shame because now that the technical advantages are diminished (or maybe even surpassed) I no longer care.

<comment><USER5> Oh and what I meant to say before I started rambling - I remember being super impressed that my paperback copy of "Portable Unix" was larger than the disk media (2 x 1.44Mb diskettes) that encompassed the Linux clone. In retrospect it's startling that this was impressive!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> "Who I am and why I am here," despite being the first heading in the article, is curiously unanswered.

It may seem immodest or obvious, but bloggers, please put your name prominently on your blog posts, especially if the most common word is "I".

<comment><USER7> With a bit of clicking around on the website, this should answer itself quite easily:

Lars Wirzenius

<http://liw.fi/cv/>

<comment><USER8> Actually, no clicking required: The name is in the sidebar. I did need a while to find it there, though.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> To anyone who knows the Finns this seems exactly how a typical (and I am on thin ice here for grossly generalizing a country of 5 million people, but let me continue) Finn would talk. Self-deprecating, modest and humorous in a very dry manner.

<comment><USER10> _After that, he spent a long time just reading netnews. Sorry, I mean of course that he was debugging his terminal emulation code by reading netnews_

Brilliant :-)

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> For those of you who share my slow mental arithmetic, no 1998 isn't twenty years ago -- you are not that old. Yet.

<comment><USER12> I think the point is that linux is 20 years old (1991), and these are anecdotes from an earlier time in linux history. The headline isn't "Anectodes from 20 years ago, 1998".

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> > _For example, if the Hurd had been finished a few years ago_

Any minute now... I mean, even DNF made it eventually!!</comment>


Gittup, a Linux distro on top of Git - <AUTHOR> http://gittup.org/gittup/ <comment><AUTHOR> I thought this was a pretty useful project for embedded work, and despite it being a few years old I'd never heard of it.

The documentation is a bit... eclectic.

Tup is a build system that keeps track of what files a command accesses. So if you run make from tup, it can look at every file your makefile reads from, and re-run make if any of those files change. Not that useful, in that example, but when you have it run gcc to make each source file instead, it can automatically rebuild just the files that need to be rebuilt.

Building on top of that, they've set up a git repo with the appropriate "tupfiles" (makefiles) to build linux and enough userspace to get by. It's not so much a linux distribution as a build-system that can build an entire linux distro from source.

The big difference between this and a normal build system is that all your source files can be in the same tree as git submodules, and `tup upd` will rebuild the _entire_ thing, only recompiling code who's source file or shared libraries have changed.

I think it could be a pretty powerful system for a lot of projects, I'm particularly interested in using it for building android images, and firmware for ereaders.

<comment><USER2> > It's not so much a linux distribution as a build-system that can build an > entire linux distro from source.

Isn't a Linux distro largely defined by its packaging system, which in turn is largely defined by how software is built from source?

<comment><USER3> I wouldn't say a Linux distro package system is _largely_ defined by how software is built form source, but it _can_ be, and it at least matters in all cases.

I would say the package dependency tree is probably the most important, defining feature of the package system. Second to that is delivery (and the fact it's so high on the list is a testament to its importance, as I can remember a time before it when we just had RPM and dpkg). Some package managers also build form source, but that's a quirk of hose those operate, not really a core requirement to delivering binaries to the end user.

Even FreeBSD's ports build system is largely defined be its dependency tree and the rules they have in place to make fetching and building easy. Whether binaries are delivered from it or source that's compiled locally is somewhat transparent to the end user, other than the extra time it takes.

<comment><USER4> I think GP was saying that even the Linux package managers that deliver binaries tend to build their own packages with a distro-specific build system rather than just repackaging upstream binaries

<comment><USER3> Ah, yes. It's entirely possibly I missed the point. :)

Although repackaging upstream can be a fuzzy concept. E.g. Ubuntu's early days. They've always repackaged Debian packages, but I believe there was less differentiation in the beginning, before Ubuntu has many of its own initiatives and projects.

<comment><USER5> Even now, Ubuntu releases start largely by forking debian unstable.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> This is interesting. I have been wondering about the viability and communuty interest in a service to enable subscription service for CI/CD systems at the project level.

OSS maintainers don't have a unified mechanism to alert packagers of updates.

In place of a dirty hack to power IFTTT and Jenkins from fetchmail scripts when there is an announcement, we could have intelligence and transparent automation at the distro-level.

Maintainer patches a 0-day, and there's a mad scramble for everyone to patch, test, package and publish.

I would rather not wait on Debian to release a distribution or be forced to cherry-pick from Sid.

OpenSolaris and OpenBSD could have feature parity with Cygwin and Alpine.

We could have concurrent versioning, automation and container and filesystem- based deployments become a little less risky.

Less focus on Vendor, more on Developer.

<comment><USER7> Debian has vcswatch to keep track of updates. I think it only works if the upstream repository keeps the Debian control files updated, but keeping track of commits that update a generic CHANGELOG file should be simple.

That said, I don't think the vendor can be avoided unless you want to live on the edge. If you're on a released version of a distro (otherwise, you wouldn't have to cherry-pick from Sid), chances are you're not on the latest version of the software, and the patch has to be backported by the distro maintainer to version you are actually on.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I'll admit it started skeptical based on the headline, but reading the page, I changed my mind, this seems like something worth at least trying to see what package management feels like. It'd be pretty cool if something like this could help smooth out package version incompatibilities.

In particular this idea is intriguing (and the honesty about not having tried it is appreciated):

> Bisection!

> Let's say your compy86 is running fine, and then you update to get the > latest, and something breaks. You can use git bisect across your _entire_ > linux distribution to find the commit that broke it.

> Note: It may not work across config changes, since tup doesn't automatically > run 'oldconfig' when necessary.

> Note: I've never actually tried this, so we'll just assume it works.

</comment><comment><USER9> It seems like the distro name may violate the Git trademark policy [0]. From [1]:

> ... you can't use the mark in a way that implies association with or > endorsement by the Git project.

It might be worth checking with the Git project to see if they would approve this use or find it within their allowed uses.

<comment><USER10> Er.. Github, gitlab, gitkraken.. I don't think having git in the name is enough to violate that clause

<comment><USER11> Those all got written permission to use the name.

See a similar discussion from a few days ago: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15991785](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15991785)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> My favourite sentence is: Note: I've never actually tried this, so we'll just assume it works.

</comment><comment><USER13> Seems like a great way to help ease contribution. I've never used NixOS, but I wonder how it would compare in this and other ways.

<comment><USER14> I've been using NixOS for a while now. There is a lot to be said for using nix as a development tool &c, but in terms of a daily driver OS:

Upside: It really is the best of both worlds for binary/source distros. 99% of the time it just downloads an archive and unpacks it, so it's just as fast to install or upgrade as e.g. arch. On the other hand, patching software from upstream takes seconds to do (not counting the unavoidable build time).

Downside: In order to accomplish the upside, it completely changes the filesystem layout. "./configure; make; sudo make install" is basically guaranteed to not work. To install software not in nix, you will be writing a nix expression. There is a command to create an FHS compatible namespace that works for e.g. Steam, but applications installed in there are second-class citizens, so it's preferred to not do this for anything that can simply be installed via a Nix expression.

<comment><USER15> Have you tried FreeBSD before? It ships with an awesome binary package manager and a virtual tree of sources for all the packages in the package manager at the same time. You can install the binary (sudo pkg install foo) or cd into the source dir, fetch the sources, patch on a whim, then "make" (even if the project upstream does not use make) and install.

<comment><USER16> I have used ports (if that is what you are referring to) albeit on a mac. It is very basic, without any of the interesting properties that make nix interesting. It essentially feels like a slightly improved "download && ./configure && make && make install" script.

<comment><USER14> It does have a usable binary cache, which is absent from other source-based systems _glances in portage 's direction_

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> > I couldn't find actual version control repositories for ncurses

[https://github.com/ThomasDickey/ncurses- snapshots](https://github.com/ThomasDickey/ncurses-snapshots)

This repo is generated by exporting from RCS(!):

[http://invisible-island.net/personal/git-exports.html](http://invisible- island.net/personal/git-exports.html)

There's also an unofficial git repo, which is more useful IMO:

[http://ncurses.scripts.mit.edu/?p=ncurses.git;a=summary](http://ncurses.scripts.mit.edu/?p=ncurses.git;a=summary)

</comment><comment><USER18> Y U no ostree?

[https://ostree.readthedocs.io/en/latest/manual/introduction/](https://ostree.readthedocs.io/en/latest/manual/introduction/)

</comment><comment><USER19> The example of modifying `ls` struck me as something that _ought_ to be possible in any Linux distribution with minimal effort. Instead, we have a situation where most people use binary packages, so the source isn't even available to modify. And even if you run a source-based distro like Gentoo, editing those sources by hand can still be quite intimidating. Version control makes it easier to experiment fearlessly (although it's still possible to brick your system...).

<comment><USER20> It's really not too hard on a Debian system to build a modified package. All sources should be available if you have the src repos in your sources.list. You just download the src package, modify, rebuild and install. [https://wiki.debian.org/BuildingTutorial](https://wiki.debian.org/BuildingTutorial)

<comment><AUTHOR> Return 403 for me...

<comment><USER21> Long story short:

1\. uncomment the deb-src lines in /etc/apt/sources.list; if you do not have these, simply copy each deb line and have it begin with deb-src.

2\. apt-get update

3\. apt-get source <packagename>

4\. cd <packagename>-<version>

5\. (do modifications here)

6\. dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc

7\. install the .deb packages in the parent directory with dpkg -i

Do note, this does not properly embed your modifications in a patch or whatever, I haven't figured out how to do this and lose my mind at the same time.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> > I couldn't find actual version control repositories for [...] nethack

[https://github.com/NetHack/NetHack](https://github.com/NetHack/NetHack)

</comment><comment><USER22> For a build system similar to Tup, check out [http://physics.oregonstate.edu/~roundyd/fac/introducing- fac....](http://physics.oregonstate.edu/~roundyd/fac/introducing-fac.html)

Explicitly inspired by the former, same build paradigm, doesn't use FUSE. Has some neat git integrations. Doesn't work on macOS/Windows yet though.

One funny feature that falls from the design is that you can just keep running & failing a fac build, and it'll nudge you toward the correct build.

</comment><comment><USER23> To me this looks very similar to running a source based distro (Gentoo,Exherbo,...) with lots of packages using git as a fetch method (Gentoo uses the -9999 version suffix, Exherbo calls them scm packages).

Can anybody tell me _when_ I should use gittup instead? Is it just a matter of size? Is rebuilding significantly faster with gittup due to the automatic rebuilding?

I mean to me it looks that gittup has some serious limitations in its current state (e.g. no 'make') while the others are full blown linux systems.

</comment><comment><USER24> Isn't this similar to yoctos bitbake? A bunch of package repos with a small build combiner on top.

I'm also curious how else would you do it? The article make it sound unique but this seems like the obvious solution, at least conceptually. How do other distros manage and build their packages?

</comment><comment><USER25> Seems like it might be useful in creating a Docker image from source.

</comment><comment><USER26> Is this style of package management not what (broadly speaking) differentiates BSD from Linux?

<comment><USER27> All the BSD systems[1] have had binary packages (at least optionally) for a while now. On OpenBSD, while the ports tree is still there when needed, the recommended way is to use binary packages.

[1] I am not entirely certain what the situation on DragonflyBSD is, I have not touched it in a long time.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> So.. 'tup' means something, uh, specific, in certain vernacular Englishes.

</comment><comment><USER29> Any reason why the GitHub repos are under an user account but not an org?

[0] - [https://github.com/gittup](https://github.com/gittup)

</comment><comment><USER30> Cool.

But why Linux kernel v2.6?

<comment><AUTHOR> It looks like it's an ancient half-abandoned project. Hopefully some people here take an interest and breath a bit more life into it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> Good idea. Reminds me of hombrew in macOS

</comment><comment><USER32> stopped reading at modules. I think this is an interesting ideas, but if one would seriously consider this, this is a disaster waiting to happen.

</comment><comment><USER33> Sounds good - can it run a decent VCS though, like mercurial?</comment>


What If Drivers Were Hired Like Programmers? - <AUTHOR> http://blog.jitbit.com/2011/05/what-if-drivers-were-hired-like.html <comment><USER2> This joke doesn't get the point: computer science is one of the few areas where one person can solve a problem literally one million times as fast as another, if you measure in running time.

You don't get those kinds of productivity differentials in driving.

Moreover, access to the latest and greatest tech is a click away and costs nothing. If you were a professional driver and could click in your spare time to be in the driver's seat of a Ferrari or tank for free, of course you'd do it if you cared at all about your craft.

Finally, the hours and wages of computer scientists are obviously far better, so more demands in a CV are reasonable.

At best this is a sendup of the Craigslist naifs looking to build an FB killer at $15/hour...but I get the sense he's saying that employers shouldn't be so demanding.

Yet it is peers rather than employers who've set that standard, as there actually _are_ a fairly substantial number of people who can do frontend and backend, full stack.

They're called hackers.

<comment><USER3> _computer science is one of the few areas where one person can solve a problem literally one million times as fast as another, if you measure in running time._

i'm not sure what you're arguing. that a professional programmer could optimize a program to be a million times faster than an unskilled programmer? or that the program would run a tiny bit faster but over the life of the program running continuously, it would do a million times more work?

a professional racecar driver racing around a circuit could finish a lap 10 seconds faster than an unskilled driver. over the course of a 24-hour endurance race, those 10 seconds would add up to a lot of time.

<comment><USER2> Well, in driving, the ultimate time ratio would not be a million fold or even close, even taken over the entire lifetimes of driver 1 and 2. An extreme differential would be 10X.

There are a few different ways to formulate the comparison in CS. For simplicity, consider a one-time eigenvalue computation on a large matrix (used for Pagerank and many other things). You could measure the total time from sitting down at the computer to having the numbers flow out onto the monitor. Let's consider the ratio of total time taken by skilled programmer one vs. unskilled programmer two.

The first obvious point is that many unskilled programmers wil not even be able to formulate the problem, leading to a ratio of infinity (i.e. any solution by programmer one will be infinitely faster than no solution).

Contrast to the driving example. Legions of smart engineers have made driving as simple as turning a key. So driver one and two will both be able to get started.

You can continue the analogy. As the size of the matrix gets larger, some programmer twos will get bogged down in trying to compute every eigenvalue, while programmer one uses something like the Arnoldi-Lanczos algorithm to pull out only the ones they need. Depending on matrix size this can quickly become literally one million times as fast as the naive solution.

This is not a theoretical example, but very similar to the tech behind Kaltix, one of Google's first acquisitions. It's not too hard to find many more examples. Moreover, this is for just one problem; when accumulated over time as in the hypothetical driver comparison, the ratios get even greater.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> "I see here you have several years experience driving Volvo, Ford, Volkswagen, Opel and Toyota. I'm sorry, but we're looking for a Honda driver."

<comment><USER5> "Must have ten+ years of Tesla driving experience."

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Before everyone gets all uppety about this post, please take 30 seconds to chucle about it. Then, instead of saying how the industry is so screwed up remember that there are certain jobs where being master-of-all-trades is at least a good nice to have. For example a front-end specialist or a DBA may not be who a startup looking for its first employee might need.

Lastly, reject any job ad that requires 20 years of RoR experience. Instead focus on what the company does. If it is interesting to you, apply. I found that most employers arbitrarily choose requirements, and I just avoid all that want certifications: they tend to be too enterprisy for my taste.

For web people: look at what the perspective employer's product is using for language/framework. It is easy to do and will win you points. It will also help you avoid maintaining legacy systems running on NT if that's not your thing.

<comment><USER7> As someone who tries to be a master of all, I don't see anything ridiculous about the requirements. If your passion is cars, you're likely to have some knowledge in all of those areas just because you love cars, if for no other reason.

What I found funny, and unfortunately all too true, was the pay offering. They want it all, but are only willing to pay slightly above minimum wage to get it.

<comment><USER8> _If your passion is cars, you're likely to have some knowledge in all of those areas just because you love cars, if for no other reason._

So, a person who is applying to a driving position should be so passionate about 'cars' that they should have a background in rally driving and heavy tanks?

I think this reveals your ignorance of vehicles. Similarly, I think the sort of job posts that this post is mocking reveal an ignorance on the part of whoever is posting the ad.

<comment><USER7> While karma is meaningless, I appreciate your reply instead of just voting me down. I was wondering what was wrong with my post and appreciate any feedback that can help me provide better comments in the future.

In my experience, those who are passionate about a topic want to learn about all of the topics surrounding that topic. If you like to drive, you're probably going to want to know what makes a car tick and even get your hands dirty. I know that's not true of everyone, but generally speaking, I think it is.

You don't have to be passionate about driving to be a good driver. However, given the choice, why wouldn't you want to hire the guy who lives and breaths cars if they are also an excellent driver? Their additional skills will not hurt to have around, even if they are not directly applicable to the job at hand.

If you are at all interested in the job, you're going to apply no matter what the ad says is required. However, the long list of requirements gives you some insight into what the company does. Asking for a C++ programmer could mean anything, but if you also need MySQL experience, you've got a good indicator that you're going to be writing code that interfaces with a database. This helps you weed out the candidates offering jobs you may not be at all interested in.

<comment><USER8> _If you like to drive, you're probably going to want to know what makes a car tick and even get your hands dirty._

1) I know several people who are absolute car nuts. Some of them are excellent drivers. Few of them do their own 'dirty' work. (note: I do my own dirty work, but I realize that has less to do with a passion for cars than a passion for independence and understanding systems)

2) That has nothing to do with the article that was posted. Reread it. Note the bit about rally, tanks, and F1 experience as a plus.

 _the long list of requirements gives you some insight into what the company does_

That really doesn't have much to do with the original post, either. It's talking about the (sometimes/often) ridiculous specificity and enormous range of requirements you'll find in job postings. Employers complain of being unable to find "good candidates," yet they'll reject a senior engineer for lacking one bulleted item, regardless of its complexity in relationship to the other requirements. In my experience, this is largely caused by the HR gateway and general incompetence in first-tier candidate selection.

Similarly, refusing to interview a candidate for a bus driver position because the person has no experience driving tanks would be silly.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I'm sure if a team of skilled driver/mechanic hybrids was the difference between a mediocre or failed business, and multi-multi-million-dollar paydays, the market would be much more competitive and employers would feel the need to have such outsized "obligatories."

In other words, the subtle critique of the job market isn't really accurate. "What if clowns were hired like programmers?" "What if Wal-Mart greeters were hired like programmers?" Invalid.

More precise would be, "What if [carpenters|plumbers|machinists|general contractors] were hired like programmers?" The writeup on that topic wouldn't be quite so snarky, I think.

<comment><USER10> I think the article is alluding to the wide span of requirements which is quite impossible to achieve in any field, even if you are a programmer. But thats not really the case in the real world, altough I have seen some job ads like that, where they sought people with experience in x86 assembly, C# and database modelling as well as front-end development.

<comment><USER9> I know what it's alluding to. It's just 1). silly to compare hiring a programmer to hiring a car driver for many reasons and 2). very unlikely anyone would hire a job posting for a [front-end dev|HTML&CSS|customer support] (choose your own metaphor) who has experience in kernel programming, which is what this faulty metaphor is alluding to.

It may happen, but I'd be surprised if it's regular enough to be considered how programmers are hired.

<comment><USER11> The link exaggerates, but web developer positions often require knowledge of every tool in the chain from the server to Photoshop and Flash. You have to be the front-end art guy and the front-end implementation guy and the back-end coder and the DBA and the system administrator, for $10-$12 per hour or less if it's a fixed-payment contract.

<comment><USER9> Really? $10-12/hr? That's about what my internship pays. I've seen ridiculous job listings ("Developer needed -- M.S. in Computer Science required, PhD preferred"-type listing for what seem to be pretty standard programming jobs), but I assume they were paying significantly more than $10/12 hr

<comment><USER11> My memory for the wage scale was stuck around 2002-2003, so add a decade's worth of inflation.

<comment><USER9> With all respect, I think either the salary or the requirements have been exaggerated in the retelling since then.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> This is ridiculous. Of course drivers won't have all that; they're just drivers. In computer terms, a car driver is not like a programmer, but rather more like a touch typist. Of course you wouldn't expect a person whose job is typing on keyboards to understand anything about how the internet works or what databases are.

<comment><USER13> It's one thing to be able to do anything, but it's something else to have actually done it. There are only so many hours in a day.

I, and many others, can make a great deal of progress on anything in a week, but I wonder when looking at these ads, how many jobs must one have had in order to be experienced with so many different technologies?

Programming is about constant learning. How many of us have gone a single day without looking something up? What a programmer can learn is as important as what he has learned.

<comment><USER7> If you do project-based work professionally, each project can come with its own set of technologies and related experiences. Combine that with a few personal side using another set of technologies, and the array of technologies you are experienced with can grow pretty rapidly.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> The compensation part is incorrect. It should be "Depends on experience".

</comment><comment><USER15> If you were a driver, wouldn't you _want_ to be that awesome of a driver?

</comment><comment><USER16> "If car drivers were hired like programmers, then a single failed deploy (car crash) would be enough to be fired!"

\--Senior Expert in Italian cuisine and consumables distribution for Round Table Pizza.

</comment><comment><USER17> I really dislike this submission (flagged). It's facile humour, but only just barely funny. I found myself wishing people who upvoted it could be banished. But that thought gave me another.

What would a layering / segmentation of HN users look like? Imagine the voting history of HN users on certain types of articles was used to classify them, and each classification of user saw a version of HN customized to only users of their classification, including front page articles, comment and new submissions, in a transparent way similar to hell-banning?

Probably too elitist and conducive to groupthink, but worth an idle ponder.

<comment><USER18> One of the things I like about HN is being exposed to ideas and projects outside of my usual circles of interest, things that don't show up in my RSS or twitter feeds. I'm pretty sure any segmentation system like that would just spit my narrow interests back at me.

I didn't find the link to be worth much, but it also took almost no time to read. It is hard for me to imagine any aggregator not having some poor content for any given reader, even if a filter was employed.

<comment><USER17> I'm not so sure it would be the case, as it depends on what is being filtered for, but as I said, groupthink... At this point, one of HN's problems is simply scale; cities are qualitatively different to villages. Reddit has sub- reddits, but that just stages things explicitly. I wondered if something more subtle could work.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> If we raise the stakes to race car drivers, then relevant knowledge on specific tracks, car types, with a performance record would probably be very applicable.

When you're trying to find the best of the best in both drivers or developers, the driver should definitely know about how all the components in his machine affect his performance. This also allows him to communicate his intent and any adjustments that he wants made with the rest of the team (mechanics, crew, etc.).

The problem comes when employers start looking for talent out of their league, like Greyhound trying to hire NASCAR drivers to drive their busses.

</comment><comment><USER20> this is how job posts written by hr look like

</comment><comment><USER11> We also have entry-level positions available; a Master's degree and a minimum of two years of full-time experience is required.

(I really see more and more low-level coder jobs require a Master's degree, at least more and more than I noticed before I got my Bachelor's)

<comment><USER9> Yeah, it only takes 20 seconds of searching on Monster to bear witness to this phenomenon.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> and then HR sends a bunch of kids with skates that doesn't even have drivers licenses.

and the hiring manager hires the one that reads the same car magazine as him because "he had to pick one on that hiring cycle"

can't wait to work only at the start up...

</comment><comment><USER22> And what if Microsoft made cars? (this is an old one)

At a recent COMDEX, Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated: "If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving twenty-five dollar cars that got 1000 miles to the gallon." In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release stating: If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:

1\. For no reason whatsoever your car would crash twice a day.

2\. Every time they repainted the lines on the road you would have to buy a new car.

3\. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason, and you would just accept this, restart and drive on.

4\. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn, would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.

5\. Only one person at a time could use the car, unless you bought "Car95" or "CarNT." But then you would have to buy more seats.

6\. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, reliable, five times as fast, and twice as easy to drive, but would only run on five per cent of the roads.

7\. The oil, water temperature and alternator warning lights would be replaced by a single "general car default" warning light.

8\. New seats would force everyone to have the same size butt.

9\. The airbag system would say "Are you sure?" before going off.

10\. Occasionally for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key, and grab hold of the radio antenna.

11\. GM would require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe set of Rand McNally road maps (now a GM subsidiary), even though they neither need them nor want them. Attempting to delete this option would immediately cause the car's performance to diminish by 50% or more. Moreover, GM would become a target for investigation by the Justice Department.

12\. Everytime GM introduced a new model car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.

13\. You'd press the "start" button to shut off the engine.

<comment><USER23> >> 4\. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn, would cause your car to shut down...

I had one of those, a Plymouth Voyager. Going from our house in the mountains there was an intersection with a sharp down hill right turn. Sometimes the car would stall with a loss of power steering. My wife was small and she int like it all.</comment></comment>


Is Most Published Research Wrong? - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42QuXLucH3Q <comment><AUTHOR> I like to call myself a science enthusiast and like to know the answers to questions as much as my time and cognitive abilities allow me.

Being an average engineering graduate, I confess to taking published research seriously and spending energy thinking about it, assuming it to be true (even if counterintuitive obviously) all along.

Would be cool to read about some personal stories/experiences anyone on HN might have seen on data dredging (p hacking) by a scientist for advancement in their career.</comment>


Failure to safeguard against fake IDs allows bad guys to slip through security - <AUTHOR> http://www.thedaily.com/page/2012/04/02/040212-news-fake-ids-1-4/

<comment><USER2> Who cares about fake ids? Use your real ID and use a fake boarding pass, like Bruce Schneier and others have long pointed out.

The hypothetical solution "have the actual driver's license queried back to the issuing authority, whatever state issued that driver's license, to make sure that that license was issued to that person" is bogus - how does the TSA id check verify that foreign identification, ie passports, are not counterfeit or otherwise fraudulently acquired?</comment>


Windows 10 is making too many PCs obsolete - <AUTHOR> http://www.computerworld.com/article/3209977/microsoft-windows/windows-10-is-making-too-many-pcs-obsolete.html <comment><USER2> Nothing mnakes a PC more obsolete than Windows.

/me ducks</comment>


The Pivotal Labs website is gone? - <AUTHOR>

It now redirects to pivotal.io: pivotallabs.com<p>As of 7:53pm on 5/7/2015, it looks like Google hasn't picked up this change yet, and all of these pivotallabs.com pages redirect to a pivotal.io 404: https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=pivotal+labs <comment><USER2> Seems they are tried to move it to pivotal.io and stopped halfway... (on the bottom there is a link to pivotal.io/labs, but the links there also point to the wrong location)</comment>


Show HN: Pixel Stickers – Removable Pixel Art for Your Wall - <AUTHOR> https://www.pixelstickers.com

<comment><USER2> Nice work on the designer. [http://www.pixelstickers.com/lab/?id=3178](http://www.pixelstickers.com/lab/?id=3178)</comment>


Hola - p2p internet - <AUTHOR> http://hola.org/

<comment><USER2> This is safe for online transactions like google play, amazon etc?</comment>


Ask HN: mad search bots? - <AUTHOR>

I've got a groupblog-like site (somewhat niche, I must notice) which got articles and tags. Watching the stats I found out that about 80% of time and like 250+ reqs/minute application serves are tag pages for searchbots (from different search engines).
Am I doing something wrong?
I don't mind search bots since they hit the cache, but they seem to crawl the same content over and over again. Isn't that weird? <comment><USER2> Microsoft's bot used to do that kind of thing - not sure if it's been fixed yet. AFAIK, it's just stupid and there's no way to fix it.

You can set crawl-delay in robots.txt if you want to reduce load, but you don't appear to need it. Note that, again, MS' bot doesn't honour this.

It may be sensible to make the tag pages noindex, and a sitemap.xml may help these bots. But I have no other ideas.</comment>


Oklo Microreactor Is INL's First-of-A Kind Haleu-Fueled Nuclear Demonstration - <AUTHOR> https://www.powermag.com/oklo-micro-reactor-is-inls-pick-for-first-of-a-kind-haleu-fueled-nuclear-demonstration/ <comment><USER2> I'm the cofounder of Oklo. Thanks for submitting this to HN! Feel free to AMA. :)</comment>


Move Silicon Valley: America needs a tech hub in a place where it's welcome - <AUTHOR> http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/the_next_silicon_valley/2013/12/move_silicon_valley_america_needs_a_tech_hub_in_a_place_where_it_s_welcome.html <comment><USER2> I don't disagree with the author's premise; but Cleveland? If you look at the major technology startup hubs around the US (San Francisco, Austin, Boston, NYC, Pittsburgh) the one common factor is that they have major, world-class engineering universities.

<comment><USER3> Case Western is in Cleveland and Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh is close.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> The author of the article is obviously schilling for Cleveland and other rust belt cities that no longer have the manufacturing jobs that they used to.

Cleveland is one of the most heavily regulated and wasteful cities, as is Detroit. I would say that big companies aren't wanted there any more than they are in SF.

</comment><comment><USER5> How come the United States has never seen a planned metropolis, built on the principles of maximum security and maximum density? I know many people who would give up their "freedom" for the ability to live affordably in an environment like that. Where is our Silicon Arcology?

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcology](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcology)

<comment><USER6> Planned metropolises tend to break: cities are complex, emergent structures. Brasilia gets more shit than it deserves, but the planning that went behind it certainly wasn't good for it. Maybe "planning better" or "planning for better things" could work, but its hyper-modern conceit to not consider how it has failed in the past.

Or is failing in the present: see the grand, empty cities that the PRC has been building.

<comment><USER7> Many great european cities grew entirely out of deliberate projects. Some noble family would want to harbor a thriving marketplace so they could tax it.

American cities did used to be planned. Philadelphia and New York didn't just assemble as grids. It's only in the postwar era suburbia build out that urban planning became haphazard and driven by developers.

The idea of a polity building a well planned city from scratch has loads of successful historical precedent.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> A huge factor that the author fails to account for is weather.

Public transit might have it's pitfalls in SF, but there are no snow days. There's no ice on the roads. There's no hurricanes, or tornadoes, or summers that require A/C at all hours. You don't really have to pay to heat your home or office all winter. You can drive to the snow if you want to ski, or you can hang out on the beach in January.

The Bay Area is a paradise, meteorologically speaking. It's the reason that people who live on the street congregate here, and it's the same reason people are willing to pay exorbitant rent. There are very few other places in the country that even come close to competing, and it's not something that even the likes of Google can take with them to Cleveland.

<comment><USER9> The biggest factor that the author fails to account for is the market.

Businesses are profit maximizers. They locate themselves where they can profit the most.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> If we have to move Silicon Valley somewhere, my vote would go to Rochester, NY: [http://rocwiki.org/](http://rocwiki.org/)

<comment><USER11> I was actually thinking that. Plenty of schools there including RIT and U of R, lots of office/warehouse/factory space available, unique local culture, cheap (for now) housing...

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> What would make google et. al. _want_ to move, though? Is it really feasible for government (local or federal) to give strong enough incentives? Those companies are immensely profitable, so I'd guess it's not easy to bribe them with tax breaks. Furthermore, they care to be able to attract talent AND having a critical mass of talent, moving them all at once would only help with the latter, while they have both in SV.

<comment><USER13> "so I'd guess it's not easy to bribe them with tax breaks."

Especially when they are already paying so little tax to begin with on those profits...

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> What's wrong with Vegas? There's plenty of room here, Project 100 and other interesting tech companies starting up, and close enough to fly in or drive to and from the Valley if needed every so often. Also, the city is trying to diversify from just Casino culture as it is, so you can get a decent amount of support for pie-in-the sky projects, not to mention the business-friendly tax laws.

</comment><comment><USER15> "What's needed is for a critical mass—say Google and Apple and Facebook and Twitter—to move all at once, to the same place, thus immediately creating a new tech hub."

Most of the millionaires who cashed out of those companies have already left, and many others would be unwilling to relocate. I don't think moving the ecosystem of angel investors etc. which powers the valley is so easy.

</comment><comment><USER16> Is it really consensus that tech workers in San Francisco have that kind of contempt for folks who make less money? The article assumes that premise based on a few data points, but I don't buy it.

And anyway, tech hubs are created based on a very specific set of circumstances that are basically impossible to simulate. What company is going to be the Fairchild Semiconductor of Cleveland?

</comment><comment><USER17> How about not having one and we can finally have some of these companies offering actual remote work.

</comment><comment><USER18> quick google shows that non-competes are enforceable in OH. Not-starter for hi-tech. TX pretty much the same.

For illustration, as another poster mentioned Fairchild - with enforceable non-competes you'll never have the "Fairchild Semiconductor of Cleveland"

<comment><USER19> Just because a state enforces non-compete contracts doesn't mean that companies have to use them.

If a company in Ohio or Texas is trying to convince people to move there from California, and these people refuse to agree to non-compete contracts, the companies will have to stop that nonsense since it will prevent them from hiring the people they need.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> This whole idea that you can simply define an equivalent tech hub is misguided. Like it or not, there is nowhere in the world that compares to silicone valley. This, despite the high land prices, poor public transport and high rental prices.

</comment><comment><USER21> I vote Reno. The real estate market is cheap. It is just a few hours down the 80 from the bay. Tahoe is our neighbor. The city is motivated to attract tech.

</comment><comment><USER22> Cleveland? SLC has more of an argument. I'd still go with Austin if we had to move it, though.

</comment><comment><USER23> I'm probably biased, but I think the Denver/Boulder area would be a good candidate

</comment><comment><USER24> Haha. I'm about to move from Cleveland to the Valley in a couple months for the scene.

</comment><comment><USER25> It's 27 degrees right now in Cleveland, need I say more?

</comment><comment><USER26> Come on down to San Diego, we'd love to have you.

</comment><comment><USER27> Go everywhere and nowhere. Move bits, not bodies.

</comment><comment><USER28> What about Seattle?

</comment><comment><USER29> Miami anyone?

</comment><comment><USER30> I don't think this will happen. Large tech companies _have_ offices in the rest of the country, but getting the best projects and the promotions usually requires being at HQ. If you're serious about Google, you'll work in MTV. If you're serious about working for Goldman, you want New York. Sure, you can work in Madison or Austin and be employed by a Silicon Valley company, but you'll be getting the projects that the mother ship passed on. If you want to live in Austin, then you're best off working in an Austin company if you want a career there.

Nor are VCs going to move just to "spread the wealth" geographically. They're rich enough that this rent shit isn't their problem and they're settled. Whatever is to reverse this condensation of tech in the Bay Area is going to be post-VC; someone will have to figure out how to target and structure the mid-risk/mid-growth (15-40%/year growth) businesses that VCs hate. I have ideas on structure: [http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/gervais- macle...](http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/gervais- macleod-17-building-the-future-and-financing-lifestyle-businesses/)

It is a nice idea, and if technology comes through with a post-VC wave (a return to maker culture) we will see that geographical shift. It won't be "a new hub". It'll probably be 20 or so microhubs, of which San Francisco and New York will be included.

I could see a strong forecast for: Austin, Boulder, Durham, Baltimore, Portland. Boston is well-poised to make a comeback, and Chicago could show some strength.</comment>


Ask HN: Are there any resources to learn how to think about programming? - <AUTHOR>

I'm a college sophomore. I've taken various C++ programming classes, and I'm currently in C++ Data Structures. While my assignments have been fairly challenging, I was never really taught how to think about tackling programming problems. I'd write down some pseudocode, then proceed to hack code together until the program met the professor's requirements. The whole time I feel like I'm shooting fish in a barrel hoping I get something instead of coming up with a proper strategy for achieving what I want.
I've purchased tons of programming books, but they merely explain language syntax. I don't want to learn how to declare variables and use loops, I want to learn how to approach a difficult problem, break it down, and come up with a proper solution. I want to develop a mindset for problem solving and programming, not learn more syntax.
I know the only way to improve in programming is by practicing, but programming is hard to do without a proper foundation in problem solving. <comment><USER2> "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" (SICP) by Abelson and Sussman is a must read.

Some other foundational texts I'd recommend:

* "How to Solve It" is a (the?) classic introduction to mathematical problem solving. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Solve_It>

* CLRS ("Introduction to Algorithms") is the classic introduction to solving problems through computation: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_Algorithms>

Those texts are useful for "programming in the small." [1] As you get closer to "programming in the large" (basically putting together non-trivial software systems), some good things to look at are:

* The "Gang of Four" book ("Design Patterns: Elements of Reusable Object-Oriented Software") introduced the idea of design patterns to software engineering and provides a useful toolbox and vocabulary for thinking and talking about putting programs together.

* Joshua Bloch's "Effective Java" is an insightful set of heuristics on writing good code. Like with Gang of Four, you can get a lot out of this book by looking past the implementation language and thinking critically about the rationale behind the prescriptions in the book. I'd also recommend Bloch's talk, "How to Design a Good API and Why it Matters" (<http://www.infoq.com/presentations/effective-api-design>).

* A recent talk I found insightful is Rich Hickey's talk, "Simple Made Easy" (<http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy>). In this talk, Hickey makes a strong argument for simplicity in software and the ramifications for the working programmer. I'd also recommend his talk, "Hammock Driven Development."

*I would highly recommend the "Destroy All Software" screencast series by Gary Bernhardt (<https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/screencasts>). These screencasts show an experienced developer working through small programming problems in a test driven style and explaining the reasoning behind his decisions as he goes along.

[1] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programming_in_the_large_and_pr...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programming_in_the_large_and_programming_in_the_small)

<comment><AUTHOR> I just ordered "How to Solve It" and "SICP". They seem to be exactly what I'm looking for!

The problem with CLRS is that I haven't had a discrete mathematics course yet, so the math involved in the book is way over my head right now.

Thank you for providing all those resources. I'll definitely make sure to check into the remaining books and lectures.

<comment><USER2> Great, I'm glad I could help!

You raise a good point about discrete math, let me add the following to my list above:

* MIT's 6.042 ("Mathematics for Computer Science") Lecture Notes start at first principles and go on to cover relevant discrete math topics motivated by common types of computer science problems.

[http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and- comput...](http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer- science/6-042j-mathematics-for-computer-science-spring-2010/readings/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> You might consider reading "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" (SICP) by Abelson & Sussman

At least one version available here: <http://sicpebook.wordpress.com/ebook/>

<comment><AUTHOR> Just ordered it on Amazon! Thanks!

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Try solving riddles, mathematical problems, etc. That might help to get you into the right frame of mind. Don't shoot fish in a barrel, try to think about a problem at first. What is the problem, what are you trying to solve? Now, think of the approaches to solving it. How do you get the answer? Then fool around, and twiddle with things until it works. Try to separate problems into types of problems, each type requiring a certain type of solution, and fit you problem into these lists. Just my two cents.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the response. What kind of mathematical problems should I be looking for? I've taken two semesters of calculus and a semester of linear algebra, but I don't think it's had much impact on my programming ability.

<comment><USER5> Project Euler of course! <http://projecteuler.net/>

<comment><AUTHOR> Ah, I remember solving a few of those a while ago. Unfortunately I'm not very mathematically inclined, and some of the problems there are extremely difficult to figure out.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> In addition to all the wonderful resources already suggested above, you should check out the MOOCs on Mathematical Thinking (<https://class.coursera.org/maththink-2012-001/class/index>) and Algorithms (<https://class.coursera.org/algs4partI-2012-001/class/index>) on Coursera.

</comment><comment><USER7> Try "A Discipline of Programming" and "Structured Programming" by Edsger Dijkstra (the second with co-authors C. A. R. Hoare & Ole-Johan Dahl).

Also, Project Oberon by Niklaus Wirth, for showing how it can be done well and clearly.

SICP and How to Solve it, as others have recommended, are also great, ditto Project Euler.</comment>


Ask HN: Where were you 5 years ago? Today? Where do you want to be in 5 years? - <AUTHOR> People get asked where they want to be in five years, but an answer stripped of context isn't all that informative.
eg. If you are a developer today, and want to be CEO of your own company in 5 years, that doesn't mean much unless you also say that you were homeless 5 years ago.
So where have you been? Where are you going? And what are you doing in that hand-basket? <comment><USER2> 5 year ago: PHP

now: javascript

in 5 years: javascript</comment>