Amazon sues former AWS marketing VP Brian Hall after he takes Google Cloud job - <AUTHOR> https://www.geekwire.com/2020/amazon-sues-former-aws-marketing-vp-brian-hall-accepts-google-cloud-job/ <comment><USER2> Ugh, this garbage again. AWS came after someone I had hired trying to enforce the same non-compete, under more or less the same circumstances (Washington- based employee, working remote out of California). In the process I learned a bunch about this non-compete, and in particular about Amazon's behavior with respect to it: as of 2012, they had tried to enforce this non-compete "hundreds" of times -- and to the knowledge of the outside counsel we used, had never prevailed. (It's used as a tactic to terrorize their own employees -- and it works wonders.)

As for us, we responded to their nasty letter with a nastier letter that told them that we didn't view the employee in violation, that the non-compete was absolutely unenforceable in California and essentially unenforceable in Washington -- and that we were prepared to draw pistols at dawn over it. That was more or less the end of it, but it was traumatizing to the ex-AWS employee, turning an otherwise amicable separation venomous; it's despicable, cowardly behavior.

(Also, if anyone needs counsel on the ground in King County to fight this, I have a great recommendation for you; DMs open.)

<comment> tuna-piano It's quite an interesting strategy and for all Amazon's "long-termism", it's a strategy that seems quite short-term focused.

It may make their current employees decide not to leave, but it may also lower morale and make future recruits not join.

Talk to decision makers deciding which database to buy and see their thoughts about Oracle. Many have been around for decades and have worked for or with the company and refuse to buy their products. This feels like a great way to cement your company as a new Oracle.

Your short-sighted mean-spirited moves helped inspire your most dangerous competitor[1].

From Jack Welch - "I have a phrase: love them on the way out — I teach this to my school — love 'em on the way out the way you love them on the way in. And I'll tell you another one: a severance dollar is the cheapest dollar you'll ever spend. Those two things, if you practice that religiously, you'll stay out of trouble, you'll be perceived as fair. Maybe not loved, initially, but people will come to respect you. That's why I have an army of friends. Many people who I let go are some of my closest friends."

[1][https://observer.com/2019/07/walmart-ecommerce-strategy- amaz...](https://observer.com/2019/07/walmart-ecommerce-strategy-amazon-ceo- george-patton/)

<comment><USER3> Amazon's non-compete was the deciding factor for me not to join the company.

I went through all steps of the recruitment process, but bailed out after receiving the offer. I've had a chat with the hiring contact and I did tell them that I was concerned about the NCA, but they simply waived those away telling me "it's not a big deal". Funnily, even though they were asking if they could change something in the offer to convince me to join, the NCA was something that they wouldn't budge on.

Since me joining Amazon meant moving all the way from Europe, I was really uncomfortable with the prospect of potentially being stuck at Amazon because of that NCA, so I wished them luck and rejected the offer.

<comment><USER4> > Amazon's non-compete was the deciding factor for me not to join the company.

i would ask for, in advance of signing the non-compete (that lasts for X years) the equivalent of X year's of salary. I'm sure there's room to negotiate this so that the company has to pay out the approximate cost of a non-compete.

<comment><USER5> that's the way the law works in France. That's why I always receive a nice letter at the end of my contract: "we hereby release you from your non-compete agreement".

Basically you have to write everything about the end of the employment in the employment contract, otherwise you'll get shafted.

<comment><USER6> In France you do not have to write it, the law regulates this anyway. If you have a non compete, you have compensation.

The good thing with contracts on France (and when buying a house) is that everything is regulated and there is actually little space for any enforceable changes.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> You know you're cool when you need a lawyer to change jobs.

I think it would be reasonable to allow non-competes, however, the company should have to keep paying you your full compensation (salary, stock, bonuses, etc) for as long as they keep you from being employed.

Sure, give the old employer veto power for a new job as long as they keep paying them for the lockout period.

<comment><USER8> The tech industry in California does just fine without noncompetes.

In fact, lack of noncompetes is probably one of the biggest reasons Silicon Valley was able to take off in the 1950s-60s when people were constantly leaving their jobs to start new chip companies, starting with the original "traitorous 8" who founded Fairchild Semiconductor.

There just aren't good arguments for noncompetes. People often bring up trade secrets, but that's not convincing -- there are already laws against stealing trade secrets, so you don't need noncompetes for that. Look at Anthony Levandowski as a high-profile example of someone who stole trade secrets in California and got nailed.

<comment><USER9> > There just aren't good arguments for noncompetes.

I think the standard argument isn't trade secrets. The standard argument is that you want to incentivize employers to train employees.

If I, as an employer, train you for 6 months, then you leave at month 7 for a higher salary (which you can demand cause you have more training/experience), I lose out. So I have no incentive to train you. So training or hiring of people without experience never takes place (or does so at a lower rate).

If you are someone without experience, and there was a way for you to credibly commit to _not_ moving to a new job (e.g. by signing a non-compete), then you might want to make that bargain - it's worth it for you to sign away some freedom in order to get some advantage (which is kind of the basis for all contracts).

That's the theory, anyway. I have no idea how much it holds up in the real world.

> The tech industry in California does just fine without noncompetes.

Obviously, the counterargument is that it could be doing even better, we just don't know it.

Note that if the standard argument is correct, then there's a chance that the biggest group of people hurt by lack of noncompetes are people without experience. You might not necessarily be feeling their pain, depending on your social circle (e.g. if you're a working developer in an SV company, you're surrounded by the people who _did_ make it, not by the possibly numerous people who faced closed doors because of this).

<comment><USER10> > The standard argument is that you want to incentivize employers to train > employees.

Charge tuition for training and offer "student loans" with no payments or interest while you're working for the company which are forgiven if you stay for five years or whatever. Then if somebody wants to poach you right away, that's fine, they can just pay off your training loan.

<comment><USER11> This sounds like the most American solution I've ever heard. Incentivize employers to train people by charging employees money for training and letting them pay off their debt by working?

<comment><USER10> It's exactly the same system the government uses for teachers.

You could also just forget about the loan forgiveness, charge "tuition" unconditionally and then pay more to make up for it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> There is a chance that some people with a history worth sharing might not be, and never be, in a position to talk.

I personally think that non-compete agreements are a strange beast. On one side, you want to avoid people "switching sides" and bring important secrets with them, possibly the reason why they've been hired by a competitor.

On the other side, you want a competitive job market, so that people would get the salary they deserve and the position they deserve.

<comment><USER13> Agreed. I'm generally uncomfortable with noncompetes and especially with Amazon's practice of making _every_ employee sign one. Unless it's a really special case where a team is working on something truly groundbreaking and secret, I don't see what Amazon is really afraid of if some random developer leaves and goes to a competitor.

However, I do have to say that their argument as stated in this article _does_ seem like a valid case for a noncompete. From the article:

>"Virtually every day, Hall worked with Amazon's most senior cloud executives to create and execute those plans. As a result, he was entrusted with an unusually broad view into Amazon's cloud product plans; its priorities; and its competitive strategy."

<comment><USER14> I think cases like this can largely be dealt with by allowing non-competes, but only as long compensation continues. Without that the power imbalances are just too extreme.

EDIT: rephrased to make clear I wasn't just referring to base salary.

<comment><USER15> A large part of compensation is probably not in base salary, that'd be asking for like a 50% compensation cut.

<comment><USER16> I was assuming the person meant what you take home. Not just base salary.

<comment><USER14> Correct. Edited comment to clarify.

I think there's some possibly quibbling around the edges around what exact would be included, or not. E.g. a rule that bonus / commissions don't have to be included, as long as that doesn't lead to < 75% of previous year's comp would still be ok with me.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Non-competes should be completely killed. Disclosing confidential trade secrets should be a legal issue, but getting a new job with a competitor shouldn't be, as long as you don't share confidential info with them. If you build up a tonne of domain knowledge, and become an expert, you should be able to leverage that expertise by continuing to work in that domain, as long as you aren't sharing legit secrets.

<comment><USER18> I once started a job where the contract contained a very weird clause: I wouldn't be able to use any programming-related knowledge I gained at the job for my future jobs. Obviously that's not enforceable, but it led to a ridiculous discussion where I tried to explain to them that if previous employers did this, I could only use the knowledge I gained before being employed - effectively programming like during highschool. They agreed in the end that I should be allowed to transfer knowledge and the clause was removed.

<comment><USER19> Two lessons here: read the employment contract, and employment contracts are negotiable.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> It's ironic seeing so many people in this thread being against non-competes, yet seeing so few people for unionizing in other HN threads.

<comment><USER21> The perception seems to be that unions hurt well performing employees more than they help. Non-competes are perceived as hurting well performing employees. Why is it surprising that the same group, which perceives itself as well performing employees, would oppose both?

<comment><USER22> It really depends on which unions you look at. When people hear "union," they think of Teamsters and autoworkers and elementary school teachers.

But Steven Spielberg, Tom Cruise, Lebron James, and Tom Brady are all examples of union members too.

<comment><USER23> Those unions aren't specific to one company/team though and are mainly to set pay floors because they work in a glamorous industry that people are desperate to get into and so they are used to raise the people outside of the competitive spotlight pay in the industry. If you want to start an non-company specific union for developers, by all means, start one but I see no reason to join it considering the only reason people are desperate to be developers is because it pays well.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> It's interesting to see one of the basis of defense is promises made during offer stage. Anecdotally speaking, and I am not remotely close to Hall's position or responsibilities (an engineer) and in the past, the hiring team has always led me to believe that the non-competes are a standard clause and are not likely to be enforced.

On a separate note, anybody knows if Google would help with legal defense of Hall or ignore this as a private matter?

<comment><USER25> Google likely considered legal defense as part of the hiring cost when taking someone _that_ high profile.

> the hiring team has always led me to believe that the non-competes are a > standard clause and are not likely to be enforced.

Your average engineer is likely easily replaceable. Directors and VPs are hard to replace and a huge win for any company that successfully hires them.

<comment><USER26> > Google likely considered legal defense as part of the hiring cost when > taking someone that high profile

Stuff like this is always so fascinating to me: the idea that someone's ability to do their job is worth fighting over in court -- nevermind the cultural costs of bringing someone new into a executive position at a company.

<comment><USER27> This is a very old tradition in the valley. I forget but I think the law in CA was changed sometime because these suits were almost always dismissed.

<comment><USER28> Non-compete agreements haven't been enforceable in California since 1872.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> This makes me think Amazon it starting to worry a bit more about Google Cloud. Have they been gaining a lot on Amazon recently?

<comment><USER30> I would never, ever, ever use Google Cloud for anything other than education (e.g. students working on the free tiers). Google's general culture is to randomly kill partners' businesses with automated algorithms, and then not do anything about it unless it explodes on social media.

That includes multi-million dollar partners sometimes.

I'd work for Google, but I wouldn't use their systems outside of Google. I wouldn't work for Amazon, but I definitely use AWS.

<comment><USER31> After working for Google for short duration, i second this opinion.

The engineers simply want to do cool complicated things. They dont give a damn about enterprise world, requirements, and deadlines.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> The tech industry just needs to take a cue from the finance industry and standardize garden leave.

<comment><USER33> Interesting concept. Would that have prevented the problem here?

<comment><USER34> That depends on what Amazon's motives were.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> Standard employment contract clauses stipulate that "we're hiring you for your talents, not your proprietary knowledge". I wonder how much that even matters in court.

</comment><comment><USER36> He should have moved to a California first. Quite easy with covid19 and remote work being required.

<comment><USER37> I doubt that would have helped, given that he signed the agreement while a resident of a jurisdiction where it was valid.

Regardless, I wouldn't uproot myself (and my family, if I had one) for something like this.

Non-competes are an abomination and need to go, everywhere. The only alternative I'd accept is what's done in the finance world: you basically get a paid vacation for the term of your non-compete.

<comment> em-bee i don't think that matters. what matters is the jurisdiction where he works now. california doesn't want its employed population to be limited by noncompetes. they certainly won't be interested in honoring noncompetes from elsewhere.

<comment><USER38> Virtually all contracts will specify a jurisdiction for any disputes. In the case of employment contracts it's almost always where the company is registered. Moving to California likely doesn't help at all.

<comment><USER39> What if you're not violating the non-compete in a jurisdiction where the contract is enforceable, like by moving to California?

<comment><USER40> The old one still applies in the previous contract (and is enforceable in the old jurisdiction).

<comment><USER41> what does "enforceable in the old jurisdiction" mean? They send out bounty hunters to drag you back?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> >awyers for Hall say Amazon executives repeatedly led him to believe the company would not enforce the non-competition provision of its "boilerplate" confidentiality agreement, in discussions before and after he signed the contract in June 2018.

After, sure. But anything they say _before you sign the contract_ is totally void, because every contract explicitly says "this is the only contract, anything beforehand is overruled by this".

<comment><USER30> After too. Almost every contract of this type explicitly says that it can only be changed in writing, signed by both sides.

Early-career, you'll likely get f-ed by "boilerplate" contracts, since you don't have the negotiating leverage to push back yet. Expect it.

Once you're established, push back or don't join.

These kinds of litigations don't make the news often (it's to no one's benefit they become public, and everyone signs an NDA at the end), but they're pretty common.

</comment></comment><comment><USER43> When there are only 3 companies that compete in a given space, how can job hopping not possibly violate a non-compete? Tech companies should stop using non-competes. Trade secret laws already cover the theft of IP and it just makes the rank-and-file support breaking up big companies.

<comment><USER44> > When there are only 3 companies that compete in a given space, how can job > hopping not possibly violate a non-compete?

There are more than three public cloud firms, and in any case you can job hop outside of that space.

</comment></comment><comment><USER45> Here's some Tweets about it, the news story + commentary + Hall's humorous response ("some personal news").

[http://www.mediazed.com/aws-sues.html](http://www.mediazed.com/aws-sues.html)

disclaimer: this is my own site.

<comment><USER46> Don't appreciate you linking your own property that offers little new information except the rehash without an explicit disclaimer.

<comment><USER45> Ok; I can see people are displeased.

I've added a disclaimer, since that was requested.

I'd like to take a moment to ask then what is appropriate here, after checking the etiquette guidelines, which I read beforehand and which are linked below. I read them line by line in advance and I didn't see a conflict; to be clear, they don't disallow what I did. However, I'm open to being told what I could do that would be better.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html#:~:text=Ple...](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html#:~:text=Please%20don't%20submit%20so,find%20interesting%E2%80%94not%20for%20promotion.&text=Be%20kind).

I can accept not using my own domain name, I can always use another one (that I do not own).

In this case, I spent about 15 minutes looking up the tweets around this, and then rearranging them, narrowing it down to just a few that can be a window onto other, better ones.

I'll defend that as a value-add. It's not nothing. I quoted the guy at the center of the story, I quoted a couple of people he retweeted, and then I quoted someone who I think has a good perspective on non-competes. I mean yes, with even more effort, I could have summarized him, and the non-compete guy, and written a whole essay about it all, but that's too much, and this was a compromise - not a whole journalist-level article, but a useful, defensible amount.

Now, let's look at different ways I could've done the equivalent, using other methods.

I could've posted in the raw links, which I guess is the closest solution I know of, which I'd then need to comment on - not ideal, and people would've needed to click like 5 times to get the same functionality of 1 page, but okay.

I could've created a Twitter moment, which would then fill my timeline with this (not my preference), and then posted that - still seems like self- promotion, but that way at least it's all reflected on Twitter, and after all I need some method to organize it.

To be honest, to me, this seems like an overly restrictive definition of 'self-promotion' which ends up pushing out to objectively worse solutions (boring my followers with this, looking like a lazy dump of plain links, etc.) My perspective is this is the web and remixing content isn't a bad faith action, it's fundamental to what it is.

But I understand the concern, and if people want to suggest what is appropriate, I will listen. If you want to make a suggestion for recommended solutions, I'll listen also.

<comment><USER47> I didn't downvote you, but since you have written a wall of text about this:

Generally speaking, in these kind of situations, "Analysis" type links would be more appreciated than something that could be more "Gossipy".

The twitter links feel more like "reactions", and I am not in HN for those. I saw this news in twitter, and came here to read more in-depth discussion.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> i'm honestly just curious about the legal strategy at this point. Has Amazon won _any_ of these suits?

<comment><USER49> From the article:

> Amazon similarly sued Philip Moyer, a former Amazon Web Services sales > executive, after he took a job with Google Cloud last year. A judge > ultimately agreed to limit some aspects of Moyer's role at Google for the > term of the agreement.

IIRC they've also won others in the past, yes.

I also imagine it's not just about actually _winning_ but also about the fact that even if they lose every suit, it would still discourage employees from making the switch if they suspect they will have a legal fight ahead of them (even if the employee knows they'll win).

</comment></comment><comment><USER50> It seems to me that AWS/Azure/GCP/OCI is highly incestuous. They all hop amongst each other. Strange to try and block it.

</comment><comment><USER51> I am no lawyer, but I am pretty sure an NDA is unenforceable unless damages can be confirmed or confidential information is provably exposed.

Then again, this is the case in Texas. I had to deal with this from a previous employer, met with labor law attorneys, they sent a nasty gram back to said previous employer, and said employer backed out.

</comment><comment><USER52> Noncompetes writ large are terrible policy. However, I do think at a given level of seniority/responsibility, they're reasonable, subject to the usual limitations of time and place. He worked for AWS for ~18 months and then shopped himself to a direct competitor.

<comment><USER40> Californians do not consider non-competes reasonable at all, even at that "seniority" level. Search for "Mark Hurd Oracle HP" \-- HP was not able to win that case in California.

<comment><USER19> They're not enforceable in California, so reasonablility doesn't even factor in.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> And yet they don't pay living wages to their non-engineering employees. Greedy scumbags.

</comment><comment><USER54> Standard operating procedure whenever big wigs move to competitors. Sue so they can't work for some amount of months/years, any information they know is now dated. Win either way no matter how the lawsuit goes.

</comment><comment><USER55> Better not be hired by Amazon.

</comment><comment><USER56> What usually happens if your new employer wants to keep you (if you're a top executive) is that they cut a deal with your previous one and pay for a settlement.

</comment><comment><USER57> Ironically, Amazon recruiters tell candidates "Amazon is great for your resume."

</comment><comment><USER58> fuck you amazon

</comment><comment> david-cako Good luck with this wiffle-ball strategy. :)

</comment><comment><USER59> Amazon, everyone knows you monetize open source. It's not a huge secret. Brian Hall hasn't stolen any secret magic recipe that he's now selling to Google.

<comment><USER19> If you don't want your open-source project used in for-profit projects, license it that way. Amazon is playing by the rules these projects set out, and not by a technicality. That, and the reason some of their services (let's say RDS) are popular is the open source projects backing them were already popular, in part because their licenses are permissive enough for for-profit use. Arguably, this popularity _helps_ the projects. What Amazon is doing with RDS isn't any different from a for-profit company hosting Mysql themselves.

They're also not really monetizing open source, at least not any more than a consultant does. What you're really paying for is Amazon to manage it for you --that's their value-add.

</comment></comment><comment><USER60> "One of those Amazon HR executives, Paz Patel, responded with this message, according to Hall's filing: "Congratulations, I had a feeling that you would land there. Very happy to hear this news."

Would be surprised if Paz Patel is still employed at Amazon.

<comment><USER28> I'm not so sure. That's not quite AWS's brand of "needlessly vindictive." They aim that in other directions mostly...

</comment></comment><comment><USER61> The text of the contract is unambiguous. If you didn't like it, you shouldn't have signed it.

<comment><USER62> That's not quite how the law works.

<comment><USER61> It does in Washington State especially at Amazon VP-level positions. This isn't an entry level clerk who can't say no to abusive contract language. This is someone making $1m+ a year who could easily walk away from a bad bargain.</comment></comment></comment>


Analysis: Runway, a new formal specification system - <AUTHOR> https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/tlaplus/5Xd8kv288jE <comment><USER2> I've used TLA+ professionally in a previous role and found it useful. I'd agree with the sentiments in the GG discussion:

1\. A repl would be useful.

2\. Better documentation for the individual tools, allowing other editors and toolchains to hook them more easily.

I would say that I found the TLC model checker extremely valuable, but learning what subset of TLA+ it can actually handle (and structuring your specifications appropriately) takes time.

Not sure about enums - seems like something PlusCal would do (if it doesn't already), but I would leave TLA+ alone, I think its support for sets is sufficient.</comment>


Free in-flight texting and WiFi Calls on T-Mobile - <AUTHOR> http://www.businessinsider.com/t-mobile-wifi-calling-2014-9

<comment><USER2> Quote: "New smartphones purchased from T-Mobile will allow WiFi calling, the company announced Wednesday."

This is a cool feature, but it's not new. T-Mobile has offered this feature for some time now (at least two years). I think the reason they're making it sound like a new feature is because Apple has announced it as a feature of the iPhone 6.

Anyway, it's a very nice feature, especially if you live in a cellular blind spot as I do.</comment>


Continuing the Windows 8 vision with Windows 8.1 - <AUTHOR> http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2013/05/30/continuing-the-windows-8-vision-with-windows-8-1.aspx

<comment><USER2> For what its worth....

Its my No3 son's 14th birthday and he has gathered enough money for a new PC. He wants a new one for school and games. He is not some geek programming whiz kid. He "uses" a computer, he "consumes" the internet. He is, in short, a mere kid user. He already owns a laptop with Windows 8.

The discussion on spec and costs comes round to the operating system. Exact quote: "I don't want windows 8, its a load of complete sh... crap. I'd rather have Windows 7".

Kinda took me by surprise. I assumed being a kid he'd like and want the newest, latest, whizzy thing. But no. Even a 14yo lad who is not a geek doesn't want Windows 8, even after using for many months.

I reckon that is pretty damning.

<comment><USER3> How much of that is him actually having tried it out and deciding that he does not like it, and how much is him having heard about windows 8, and deciding through that?

<comment><USER4> What I truly don't understand is why when it comes to Windows8 lots of people like you try to defend it, but when it comes to Ubuntu and Unity almost nobody does.

<comment><USER5> There's no "defense" here, just pointing out the potential influences.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> For me, personally, none of these changes interest me, perhaps with the exception of IE11.

I've had Windows 8 installed on my desktop PC since it came out as I took advantage of their cheap upgrade offer from Windows 7 (I'd not of paid full price for it). So here are my thoughts on the improvements in Windows 8.1 as someone who uses it on a desktop, with a keyboard and mouse.

Personalization: The only time I ever see the new start menu is when I quickly press Start and begin typing the name of some application I want to launch. I've never rearranged any of the tiles and my screen is always off when I'm at the lock screen so a slideshow on the lock screen is totally useless for me.

Search: "It is the modern version of the command line" What? How is a integrated desktop and web search a modern version of the command line. That makes no sense. I'd never use this new functionality anyway since I don't use Bing and I can easily access google from my always open web browser.

Apps and Windows Store: Never used any metro apps or installed anything from the Windows Store. I don't really feel that any of the metro apps have taken any thought for those who are not using a touch interface.

Cloud Connectivity: "In Windows 8.1 your files can be saved directly to SkyDrive, so you can always have your files with you." Wait, you could not do this before Windows 8.1? I've never used SkyDrive but it seems silly to me that you can now only just save your files directly to SkyDrive.

PC Settings: I can use the control panel just fine.

Internet Explorer: More frequent versions of IE seems like a good thing, although I'd be more interested in the details of what is new generally rather than just the new features for what seems to be the metro version.

Better Mouse and Keyboard Options: I see two minor tweaks, there is now a windows logo and I can now configure what happens when I place my cursor in different corners. How are these better options for keyboards and mouses?

I don't get it, they seem to be ignoring their whole previous customer base; those who used Windows on their non-touch desktops and laptops. Sure, I understand that these improvements will most likely be useful for those who use Windows on their touch based device but these people are surely in the minority so why focus the content of your "new features" announcement for the minority?

<comment><USER7> > _"I don't get it, they seem to be ignoring their whole previous customer > base; those who used Windows on their non-touch desktops and laptops."_

This is what frustrates me also.

I've had Windows 8 installed since (almost) day one on my desktop. I also have a Surface (that hasn't been touched in months, oops).

MS was accused for years of advertising Windows' touch capabilities without actually putting any real thought into them. Windows 7 had some vaunted touch- compatibility changes which really just amounted to increasing the spacing between some buttons. This made them _very hard_ to touch accurately, instead of _impossible_ to touch accurately. Needless to say, people who were hoping for a touch-capable Windows were sorely disappointed.

And now it looks like the pendulum has swung fully the other way. We have an OS that works _great_ on a touch device, and _basically doesn't work_ on a traditional mouse + keyboard device.

No, seriously. I've met people who used Win8 regularly who didn't know that each app had a bottom bar - and how could they, there's zero discoverability around it, even though critical app functionality is often contained in that bar. (It's Windows+Z btw, that or a magical incantation of mouse movements).

On a touch device it's a simple swipe up from the bottom. Beautiful.

It still befuddles me every day that MS was willing to ship something that was so fundamentally unfriendly to mouse and keyboard users. How anyone at MS could look at the mouse gestures to trigger critical UI elements and call them acceptable... I just don't know.

It seems to me that MS has bought fully into the doom and gloom re: the future of computing. The zeitgeist is that in the long run laptops and desktops will stop existing entirely and almost everyone will be using tablets instead. The sales numbers for both iOS and Android tablets support this, but it's hard to say where the equilibrium point will fall.

It makes sense that, strategically, MS wants to transition Windows from a mouse-first to a touch-first UX, but this transition is awful.

<comment><USER8> Well, it seems like Microsoft is betting that touch is an inevitable feature of most computing devices in the near future (which seems like a good bet to me, even if it might be a year or so early). The desktop market is disappearing in favor of laptops and tablets, and touch really is a nice option on laptops even if it's not going to be the primary modality.

But regardless, as someone who uses the keyboard a lot Windows 8 is slightly better than Windows 7 for me (e.g. Win+X for quick access to administrator tools).

<comment><USER4> I believe there's a huge difference between 'it's not growing' and 'it is disappearing', specially with a market with the overwhelming massive size of Windows.

That's where the current MS problem lies.

<comment><USER8> But desktops really are disappearing, and this will only accelerate if BYOD initiatives succeed. Microsoft is in a tough spot - they could have made less drastic changes to Windows 8 to placate existing desktop users, but that's the path to obsolescence. Their execution hasn't been great, but I think that recognizing the shift away from desktops is the right thing for them to do if they want any relevance moving forward. Existing Windows 7 users don't need to "upgrade" if they are unhappy with the changes made by Windows 8.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I had to get a new laptop for my wife, and I had no interest in educating her how to use Windows 8 (or figuring it out myself). The only way it's been usable for her was to install Start8. (<http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/>). It's what MSFT _should_ be adding into 8.1

I have no financial interest in StarDock.

<comment><USER10> The absence of a start menu was confusing to me for about three minutes, and then I figured out that the Metro screen is the start menu, just full size. Ever since you've been able to pin programs to the taskbar at the bottom (or side if you prefer) of the screen, my usage of the start menu fell to pressing start, and typing the name of the program I hadn't pinned to the taskbar.

The start screen's the same for me, mostly, except I also click on "Weather" and occasionally use the Trackage app.

While I don't think the Metro interface is the solution for everything or even a primary direction to go in (I'm in desktop mode 98% of the time) I also think putting a start menu back in is a step in the wrong direction.

<comment><USER11> I fully agree: The start menu was never a good idea, we just used it. As soon as you start installing and removing things, it quickly became cumbersome. Windows XP (iirc?) introduced weird ideas of how to cope with the chaos in that evergrowing, 3-4 level deep list of things you might or might not want to start: The 'personalization' feature that kind of randomly hid most of your menu. The hacks to order the menu (which never really worked reliably).

So the options today are fine, for my usecase, and I'm hard pressed to accept that the old solution was better in general.

\- Pin programs to the taskbar \- Use shortcuts for common/important stuff (Win+i, Win+x, Win+w, Win+f are the ones I need) \- Use the type to complete thing otherwise

Most users I know moved to that workflow anyway, before Windows 8 (the start menu entry on previous Windows versions. Spotlight or maybe QuickSilver before that on OS X. Unity / Gnome Shell on Linux).

In my opinion the start menu needed constant micro-management and was a hassle.

(Disclaimer: I'm not happy with the ui formerly known as Metro, but I do like the 'type to launch' approach a lot)

<comment><USER12> >>\- Pin programs to the taskbar - Use shortcuts for common/important stuff (Win+i, Win+x, Win+w, Win+f are the ones I need) - Use the type to complete thing otherwise

You can also use Win+Number to switch right to the taskbar program. quite convenient although I prefer using cap locks + home row keys to switch apps on the mac.

>>Most users I know moved to that workflow anyway, before Windows 8 (the start menu entry on previous Windows versions. Spotlight or maybe QuickSilver before that on OS X. Unity / Gnome Shell on Linux).

I agree. But if your workflow is shortcuts + quick search to open everything else it doesn't really matter if you use a start menu, something like metro or the mac os x dock.

But I think that if you are asking what is good enough for 90% of our users, is easily discoverable and reduces confusion it is hard to beat the start menu + taskbar. It isn't really a question of functionality, all you are doing is managing graphical icons that launch programs. The key should be reducing confusion for users who will use the program launcher for everything they do. I don't hear a lot of people arguing that the metro launcher was something that microsoft should have done without a focus on touch.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I've been using Windows 8 on my (multi-monitor) desktop for a few months now, and the feature I'm most excited about is the ability to launch Metro apps on both screens. There still aren't many good ones, but it's annoying when I want to play backgammon while watching Netflix. Hopefully they also make the Start screen dragable from screen to screen like all the Metro apps - it's an odd incongruity in their design.

</comment><comment><USER14> There's a lot of nice work under the hood in Win8. It's too bad the internal politics completely submerged it.

A simple "Sorry, we screwed up" would be nice to hear, rather than the "Advancing forward into the bright future, we added a Start Button^H^H^H^H^H^H Tip"

Let's put it another way: The moment that I hear the next version of Visual Studio /requires/ Win8 or its ilk to run, I'm looking _hard_ at moving everything I do to Linux.

<comment><USER15> I don't think they particularly have screwed up. Sure, removing the start button was a bad idea, but it's been blown way out of proportion. It was pretty obvious that the media and a lot of users were going to hate Windows 8 regardless of how good or bad it was, so Microsoft have to just keep pushing with the marketingspeak/bullshit. To "admit failure" would be to play into the hands of those trying to paint Windows 8 (completely unfairly) as New Coke.

That being said, why not move to Linux now? Ubuntu and many other distributions are already excellent desktop environments and are great for programming. What sort of work are you doing? You're probably either stuck in Windows, or you may as well move now.

<comment><USER14> I don't want to move to Linux yet because (A) the development environments for C++ are still way better on Windows, and (B) it's a pain in the ass to move everything else.

Once (A) is gone, it's a powerful incentive to look seriously at Windows as a going concern.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> This may be a bit facetious but it seems like Windows 8 might have been the biggest beta testing project ever.

But on a serious note I'm glad they're focusing on improving usability.

<comment><USER16> I don't understand why people keeping getting up in arms about Windows releases, it's like they keep forgetting their M.O.

Microsoft's releases have always been like this, release something that changes things drastically (either under the hood or visually), and often breaks things or makes people mad because they don't like change. Then spend an enormous amount of time refining it in a subsequent release until everyone wonders how they ever used the old version. Frankly, I like their release style and wish more companies would follow suit. It allows them innovate on a predictable schedule, while giving those people who hate change, plenty of time for it to sink in and come around.

I must say that I am not a fan of metro on the desktop either after using Windows 8 since release, but I knew the refinements would come and these changes are making it look great and finally are starting to show where they set their sights from the start.

Looking forward to using windows 8.1 on a haswell based ultrabook with touch.

<comment><USER17> Just because Microsoft releases have been like this, doesn't mean they should! Having users up in arms is a bad sign. It means you have managed change badly. Others do this much better, incrementally and in bits that are manageable by users. Its something Microsoft fundamentally doesn't understand. Completely unlike Amazon, Google or Apple. When is the last time they released something where people were up in arms?! Even with drastic changes such as in Android 4!

Microsoft just doesn't care about its users. But it should!

<comment><USER18> If they've always been like this, shouldn't people expect it by now?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Did I read it right? Animated backgrounds? That is the feature I am more excited about!

<comment><USER20> Family photos as the lock screen!

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> This might help but I think everyone is missing one of the reasons why desktop sales have tanked: Their screens.

People who are using tablets don't want to look at grainy big screens. These screens look blurry. Stop in any store and check out the all-in-one Win 8 touch desktops. Their screens are awful.

And yes blah blah blah higher-res NON-touchscreen with mouse -- but going back to a mouse after touch? That's another step back.

<comment><USER22> Does the average person buying a laptop from Bestbuy really care that much about screen resolution?

The longer lifespans of PCs and laptops combined with the popularity of smartphones and iPads is a more likely reason for the drop off in sales.

<comment><USER23> So long as a person's existing computer can still view Facebook, check email, and watch YouTube videos, there's no real impetus for them to upgrade. That tablets and phones are quite capable of doing this means there's even less need for a new PC.

Microsoft doesn't add anything new. Windows 95 was appreciably better at doing what people already did, there was reason to upgrade, and Windows XP took that even further. Ever since then they've been pretty rudderless. Windows 7 doesn't offer anything that Windows XP can't already do, apart from the new theming. At least it's inoffensive, though, and lets you do whatever you want to do without putting up a fuss.

Windows 8 is something nobody wants or needs, it's a very hard sell, and it's even more bizarre that Microsoft would be pushing so hard on touch into the market that least wants it: Corporate IT.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> >aggregated view of many content sources

I hope this means that the main Start Screen search will now search across programs and settings. Makes it much easier for things that may or may not be settings or apps (Control Panel, Device Manager, Event Viewer, Disk Administration). That's been my #1 gripe with Win8 from day 1; they got rid of universal start menu searching.

</comment><comment><USER25> "the Search charm will provide global search results powered by Bing"

This is similar to what Ubuntu users complained about when they included Amazon results in any searches.

Hopefully there will be an option to disable it and/or switch to another search provider.

</comment><comment><USER26> Personalisation may be useful for WP8 as well..when are they planning to update WP8?

<comment><USER27> 8.1 is free, so it's the update for 8.0

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> One welcome change is the "PC settings" one - sounds like all settings are "metrofied", which will help the reduce the jarring flip to desktop mode when you're not expecting it.

</comment><comment><USER29> Search: "It is the modern version of the command line!"

While the search feature they're describing sounds cool, I'm curious as to what they mean by a "modern command line".

<comment><USER30> This sounds like a "faster-horse" feature to me.

[http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/15297-if-i-had-asked- people-...](http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/15297-if-i-had-asked-people-what- they-wanted-they-would)

<comment><USER31> When he came up with the Model T, people already had trains, trams, electric cars, and bicycles at their disposal. One has to wonder whether the world wouldn't have been better off without Henry Ford's gasoline automobiles.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> under the section "PC Settings" seems to a description for being able to actually use the settings screen in your start menu that will reflect between your start menu and desktop? i've been waiting for this... my start menu will be in japanese even though i set my default keyboard to english and try to set all the language settings to english, so that i'm stuck with a stupid half english/japanese environment. even now, sometimes it's a toss-up whether or not i get english or japanese labels for start menu apps like Skype and my weather and mail apps seem to be permanently named 天気 and メール. i can't even search those using hiragana or romanized phonetics, ugh. maybe this wouldn't be a problem if i weren't practically illiterate.

also, if i ever log in to windows 8 without waiting something like a minute, i always get boxes from something not working right when in some of the start menu screens and when trying to type things in with any IME. see: <http://i.imgur.com/78SNnpB.png>

sorry that my post turned into one big complaint. hopefully someone will show me some very simple fixes to my problems!

<comment><USER33> Why use something you hate? Are you forced to stick with Windows for some particular reason?

<comment><USER2> In my, and many cases, yes.

When an alternate OS runs all my tools and games, with 100% compatibility with my hardware, I'll give it a go.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> I've been using Windows 8 for months now and just about every update mentioned I am completely uninterested in. The only exception is IE11.

<comment><USER35> What are you interested in? I've been using Win8 since launch and I'm looking forward to:

\- View all apps by swiping up

\- No longer auto-put app tiles on my Start screen

\- Improved windows store search

\- Different size app multi-screening

\- Boot to a different screen

\- Change which screen 'Start' gets you to

\- Edit functionality of corners

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> Worth noting: the release of Windows 8 brings IE11, which means that Google's "n-1" policy for browsers will now deprecate IE9.

IE9 is the last version that runs on Windows Vista (as IE8 was the latest version to run on Windows XP.)

</comment><comment><USER37> The quote I found most interesting was this:

"The response to Windows 8 has been substantial"

 _substantial_ not _positive_ , funny that!

</comment><comment><USER38> I'll probably still be using Start8 to turn it into a slightly better Windows 7.

</comment><comment><USER39> Oh look, MS is again proselytizing what a huge success Win8 has been.

</comment><comment><USER40> In what world could scrambling and backtracking backwards on decisions be described as "Continuing the vision"

<comment><USER18> How are they scrambling and backtracking decisions? How is that what you took from this?

Sure, they added a start button, why not? But they also made all the PC settings available from within the Metro environment. If the start button is a step backwards in direction, pushing further away from requiring the desktop is ten huge steps forward toward that vision.</comment></comment>


Oracle releases 127 security fixes, 51 for Java alone - <AUTHOR> http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2013/10/16/oracle-releases-127-security-fixes-51-for-java-alone <comment><USER2> _I heard that Oracle won the America 's Cup recently which leads me to give them some unsolicited advice._

 _Put the award on the shelf in your lobby, sell the ten million dollar boat and hire the engineers needed to update the Java patch cycle to monthly with the spare cash._

 _3+ billion devices will thank you._

Spot on. Working with their products on a daily basis, I just get the feeling that Oracle doesn't really give a shit about anything other than that god damned boat.

<comment><USER3> Bryan Cantrill on Oracle:

 _" As you know people, as you learn about things, you realize that these generalizations we have are, virtually to a generalization, false. Well, except for this one, as it turns out. What you think of Oracle, is even truer than you think it is. There has been no entity in human history with less complexity or nuance to it than Oracle. And I gotta say, as someone who has seen that complexity for my entire life, it's very hard to get used to that idea. It's like, 'surely this is more complicated!' but it's like: Wow, this is really simple! This company is very straightforward, in its defense. This company is about one man, his alter-ego, and what he wants to inflict upon humanity — that's it! …Ship mediocrity, inflict misery, lie our asses off, screw our customers, and make a whole shitload of money. Yeah… you talk to Oracle, it's like, 'no, we don't fucking make dreams happen — we make money!' …You need to think of Larry Ellison the way you think of a lawnmower. You don't anthropomorphize your lawnmower, the lawnmower just mows the lawn, you stick your hand in there and it'll chop it off, the end. You don't think 'oh, the lawnmower hates me' — lawnmower doesn't give a shit about you, lawnmower can't hate you. Don't anthropomorphize the lawnmower. Don't fall into that trap about Oracle."_ [1]

[1] [http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5170246](http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5170246)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I was reading this FUD whitepaper just a while back, in which they are saying OSS is unsuitable for enterprises, unscalable, untested, insecure, etc. [http://www.oracle.com/us/products/middleware/cloud-app- found...](http://www.oracle.com/us/products/middleware/cloud-app- foundation/weblogic/dod-and-open-source-software-2012277.pdf)

And then this.

<comment><USER5> That whitepaper isn't really FUD. It's basically just explaining 'open source' to people who don't really get it. The paper explains that Oracle software includes open source software and then Oracle is arguing that they do a better job of developing, leveraging, integrating, and supporting FOSS than IT workers in gov't offices can. It's a fairly reasonable argument.

<comment><USER6> I beg to differ. The UK government (finally) has got its act together in this department. We're seeing the NHS's core "Spine" system being rewritten using open source software (riak/erlang/ubuntu + others) and we have the excellent [http://gov.uk/](http://gov.uk/) as well.

<comment><USER7> And then you have a look at the new Universal Credit scheme. Glad IT schemes to do with the NHS are improving though.

<comment><USER6> Good point. I do however feel that the government departments that have failed miserably on projects will start looking at more successful projects for inspiration. We'll be a few more £billion down by then but things will improve.

HMRC's systems are pretty good these days as well (I just did my tax return online). Relatively smooth process for a large Java behemoth.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> They would gain a bit more respect by getting rid of the Ask toolbar option from the Java installer. Wonder if they actually make any significant money from that garbage.

<comment><USER5> It basically was Sun's way to make budget. I would hope Oracle just does away with it.

[https://jonathanischwartz.wordpress.com/2009/05/18/will- the-...](https://jonathanischwartz.wordpress.com/2009/05/18/will-the-java- platform-create-the-worlds-largest-app-store/)

 _We signed a contract through which we'd make their toolbar optionally available to our audience via the Java update mechanism. They paid us a much appreciated fee, which increased dramatically when we renegotiated the contract a year later. Distribution was becoming quite valuable to us and to them – and given the "take" rates, or the rates at which consumers were choosing to install new content, the Java audience saw value in the new application._

 _The year following, the revenue increased dramatically again – when an aspiring search company (again, you can figure out who) outbid our first partner to place their toolbar in front of Java users (this time, limited to the US only). Toolbars, it turns out, are a significant driver of search traffic – and the billions of Java runtimes in the market were a clear means of driving value and opportunity. The revenues to Sun were also getting big enough for us to think about building a more formal business around Java's distribution power – to make it available to the entire Java community, not simply one or two search companies on yearly contracts._

 _And that's what Project Vector is designed to deliver – Vector is a network service to connect companies of all sizes and types to the roughly one billion Java users all over the world. Vector (which we'll likely rename the Java Store), has the potential to deliver the world's largest audience to developers and businesses leveraging Java and JavaFX. What kinds of companies might be interested? If you talk to a Fortune 500 company or a startup, pretty much everyone craves access to consumers – which is the one problem we've solved with the Java platform. Most folks don't think of Sun as a consumer company, and largely we're not, but our runtimes reach more consumers than just about any other company on earth._

 _-Jonathan Schwartz_

<comment><USER9> Of course "java audience" in that text should be understood to mean Sun and Oracle management, not, you know, java users and/or developers.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Did I understand the article correctly...Oracle releases lots of security fixes, and the author is _critical_ of this?

<comment><USER11> If you posted a comment to HN with 127 spelling mistakes, which you then corrected, should you be applauded for that?

<comment><USER12> This isn't one comment to HN with 127 spelling mistakes, it would be equivalent to 1000s of people as part of a collective group contributing 1000s of spelling mistakes over the past 15 years, then all of a sudden fixing a ton of the mistakes.

Your argument is wrong but your point is correct. In the above scenario, should they be applauded for fixing 3 year old spelling mistakes that someone told them about 3 years ago...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> (Mac OSX): Can anyone explain why 'java --version' still produces java version "1.7.0_17" even though I've updated?

EDIT: Solved. Including this in case anyone runs into it. There are apparently two update mechanisms in OSX (1) From within System Preference->Java Control Panel and (2) By downloading the java file manually from Oracle.

I ran the update "1" from control panel and said system had been updated to U45, but command line didn't reflect that.

After manually downloading and installing JDK from Oracle command line now reflects "1.7.0_45".

I have no idea why this half-baked situation exist, but evidently its how it works....?

<comment><USER14> I think that's because the Java Control Panel updates the JRE, but that just updates the plugins and stuff. The manually downloaded JDK pkg definitely will update the java you invoke in the shell.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Could someone explain why Applets/Webstart is so insecure? I know that JRE itself isn't really bad, it's the web-plugin for Java that has security vurnabilities. But how so?

<comment><USER5> Because the full power of Java exists in Applets. Browsers do their best to sandbox it and to make sure users give permission before it is allowed outside the sandbox. There are probably other reasons too, but that's afaik the basic reason.

I think it's a little unfair how the whole industry has treated Applets vs. Flash. Applets were pretty nice but Sun couldn't really fight it out like Adobe did against the other larger players.

Anyhow, I disabled Applets and Flash recently myself too. The web works ok, thanks to Apple I guess, but I still need to flip on Flash occasionally.

<comment><USER16> Applets, whenever I used them, were also much, much slower to load than Flash.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Every time there is a report for Java security exploits, I would like to see bug listings from other compiler runtimes, specially C and C++ ones.

<comment><USER18> Fine, go read the bug trackers for them. Your point was? Oh, probably better to spend the time patching your desktop and servers given the massive drive through holes Java has left there.

<comment><USER17> My point is that it is easy to escalate Java security issues to average Joe, while forgetting it is just the tip of the iceberg of all attack vectors a computer has, regardless of which programming languages are used.

<comment><USER19> But the criticism isn't that others have no security issues. It is that others fix them with a greater sense of urgency than Oracle.

<comment><USER17> Do they?

I can tell from the companies I worked for, security fixes are handled like any other bug fix.

<comment><USER19> _> Do they?_

The perception is that they do, and I have to say that I share that perception. I'm open to be convinced otherwise ... by facts.

<comment><USER17> > I'm open to be convinced otherwise ... by facts.

Well, as you might understand I cannot publish the internal backlog of any Fortune 500 company my employer does consulting for.

Either you believe me that security issues get the same priority as any other bug/feature on the backlog, or you don't.

<comment><USER19> The issue we're talking about has nothing to do with the relative priority of security issues versus other bugs. The OP claimed that Oracle issues bug fixes less frequently (quarterly) than Microsoft or Adobe (monthly). Your claim is completely unrelated to that.

<comment><USER17> So the world of computing is composed only by Microsoft, Adobe and Oracle, right?

No other software requires security fixes, I see.

<comment><USER19> I certainly hope that not many of the major vendors take three months to fix critical, remotely exploitable security issues. If they do, they deserve the same criticism that Oracle got.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> > _" 51 security vulnerabilities are addressed in Java this quarter, and 50 of > them affect Java Applets or Java WebStart, the plugin that runs Java in your > web browser. Worse yet, all but one are remotely exploitable without > authentication."_

I wonder is that's just where all the cruft is, or if Oracle is getting serious about webstart?

<comment><USER21> What does "remotely exploitable" _mean_ , though?

What would "authentication" mean, in this context?

I _think_ what this must mean is that IF you click through the various dialogs to enable an applet or Java webstart application to run in your browser (or be launched from it), at that point the running code could do something bad. Perhaps these are ways to escape the normal applet sandbox?

And "exploitable without authentication" I guess must be about... what, signed JARs? That's a sort of authentication, and I can't imagine what else this could be talking about.

That's not so amazing, really, or even very scary, because the user has to explicitly click at least one (usually more) dialogs before the code will run. On some browsers, there are many more steps involved because Java is disabled by default (and even _re-disabled_ by default if you don't use it for a while), and you have to figure out how to enable it first. On some browsers (like Chrome on OS X) Java simply doesn't work, so it's out of the question.

This is where a lack of detail really harms the point -- if they walked through the _actual steps_ involved in using any of these exploits, people would have a much better idea of what was actually at risk. My suspicion is that for anyone who _doesn 't_ approve applets on shady sites, the risk is negligible.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Are all of these Java vulnerabilities lately recently introduced or just recently discovered?

<comment><USER23> About half of them have been patched in Java 5, more details here:

[http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/topics/security/cpuoct2013...](http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/topics/security/cpuoct2013-1899837.html#AppendixJAVA)</comment></comment>


From Oxford to Silicon Valley, part six - <AUTHOR> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7315598.stm the pre-edited version lives here http://blog.auctomatic.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/bbc6.html <comment><USER3> Awesome, I really enjoyed the article. I'm very happy for your guys

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> the semi-inside story on our sale. the pre-edited version lives here [http://blog.auctomatic.com/wp- content/uploads/2008/03/bbc6.h...](http://blog.auctomatic.com/wp- content/uploads/2008/03/bbc6.html). Usually they get it right, but this one seems sensationalist.

<comment><USER4> I love the 1-sentence per paragraph. It's like reading the story through twitter - <USER2>

<comment><AUTHOR> yeah like wtf. Have emailed Tim to fix.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Great story. I hope that parting words about buying Porsche's was said as a joke.

It's great that the owners achieved the outcome they desired, very positive; however I also think it's important to keep in mind that it will take some time for the buyer to realize value from the acquisition. In my opinion that should be the metric of success, did the acquired company create value, not for the previous owners/investors through an acquisition, but for the current and future customers through it's operations. I think sometimes the idea the companies should create value-added as an ongoing entity gets lost in the discussion about the company's stock creating a return for the investors/owners.

<comment><AUTHOR> obviously it was a joke.

<comment><USER6> It might have been a joke, but you should still get one. A slightly used (02-03) 911 will cost you about as much as a nice new car. And if you guys are moving to Vancouver, you'll have a place to use that wonderful car too.

Disirregardless, congratulations. :)</comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: Lexical.io – A web app for reading English text - <AUTHOR> https://lexical.io <comment><AUTHOR> Hi HN,

I created lexical.io as way to learn more about web programming. You'll notice some rough edges as it's my first 'big' project, but for now I'm happy with how it is and I hope some of you find it useful.

The idea is similar to sites like readlang.com, where you submit a text and then can click on words for more information. Wikipedia and Wiktionary are the two sources of data, plus a number of additional audio recordings. There is an option to select your native language (currently 8 languages are supported) and then lexical.io will return Wiktionary translations and Wikipedia abstracts in that language. I can vouch that it works quite well for Spanish and German, but for languages like Korean with smaller amounts of data it may be less effective.

Given more time I would like to add more languages and potentially include target languages beyond English. There are many other features and improvements to be made, but first I'd like to see what people think. Any feedback is appreciated!

(P.S. I haven't had time to record a screencast video explaining the features, so right now the video on the about page is a dead link)

<comment><USER2> Well done ! It has a very good intuitive UI to process each word.

My parents who are not native English speakers would love something like this in their native language Hindi.

It would be nice to have been able to select a full sentence and see how people would say it. I understand that right now you are getting this read on a word by word basis.

The word "bickering" did not trigger any voice so I am assuming this is one rough edge to look into.

My dad just ordered a $150 (Indian rupee equivalent) book from a local company when things like this would make the learning so much simpler.

I am going to send this to my parents and see what they say.

Thank you for doing this project.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for trying it! Hindi is on my list for languages to add.

It looks like there is no recording for the word "bickering" yet. There are around 15,000 audio recordings -- some from Wiktionary and some recorded by myself working off a word frequency list. But, since English has so many morphological forms ("bickering", "bickered", "bickers", etc.) it's hard to get full coverage.</comment></comment></comment>


Bus1: a new Linux interprocess communication proposal - <AUTHOR> https://lwn.net/Articles/697191/ <comment><USER2> Previous discussion: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12309590](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12309590)

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm sorry, I didn't see it before!

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Discussions from last week: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12309590](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12309590)

Not that there was anything constructive, since most people did not read the article & ksummit email.

<comment><USER4> Anybody interested should read the comments and participate in the discussion on the original post at LWN.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I'm not a kernel engineer or an operating systems engineer so this may be a naive question. This line was confusing to me:

> This is achieved using local clocks at each peer that are synchronized in a > manner similar to that used for Lamport clocks.

From Linux's perspective, it's just running on one machine with one system / module that determines the time of the machine right? Why do two peers need to have their local logical clock?

From my understanding, clocks are a problem for distributed systems that can't share a single clock without significant latency and loss of availability. Why is this a problem for Linux as well?

</comment><comment><USER6> Part of the reason OS IPC is stagnant is that it's not that interesting or useful.

I feel like the folks making these and other (kdbus) proposals are still thinking in terms of a "box." Boxes are dying. Almost everything interesting these days is distributed across networks with boxes being mere commodity hosts.

This is true in any modern data center or cloud infrastructure, and here it's often done via things like Kubernetes plus a pub sub bus and a clustered database.

It's also IMHO going to be true of any future next generation "decentralized" personal computing platform. All the interesting work I see in that space also takes the form of distributed systems that try to abstract away the box and deliver a kind of formless global cloud where boundaries are cryptographic.

In both cases the box is dying because it is unreliable and doesn't scale.

The trouble with local IPC is that its APIs are not going to be the same as network IPC. As a result programmers have to think about local vs remote to make use of it. So they won't.

That leaves only the local system services use case, which is already served.

<comment><USER7> Are "boxes" really dying though? Android shipped 1 billion devices in 2014 [1]. That's a lot of market for a standardized bus with lots of processes on a single box. I don't see that changing any time in the next five years, and maybe beyond.

Linux is way too popular to not consider all the use cases. And "interesting" is not a good yardstick for where effort should be spent.

[1] [http://www.cnet.com/news/android-shipments- exceed-1-billion-...](http://www.cnet.com/news/android-shipments- exceed-1-billion-for-first-time-in-2014/)

<comment><USER6> Today's mobile devices are mostly dumb terminals for the cloud. It's a portable always on VT100 for the 21st century. Web sites and apps are like giant VT macros. All the interesting stuff is elsewhere.

As they get more powerful I could see apps doing more interesting things locally, but in doing this they will mostly be talking to distributed systems over a network. (E.g. peer to peer net in apps.)

The last bastion of the box is PC, but that is also a mature and stagnant platform whose use cases are mostly served by what is already there.</comment></comment></comment>


"There Is Only Awe" – on Julian Jaynes - <AUTHOR> https://nplusonemag.com/online-only/online-only/there-is-only-awe/

<comment><USER2> Melting Asphalt has a great little essay series on Jaynes' Origin of Consciousness here: [http://www.meltingasphalt.com/series/](http://www.meltingasphalt.com/series/) It's fairly brief and well worth the read.

</comment><comment><USER3> In some regards I can certainly see Jayne's theory as correct with regards to the arising of consciousness as a mechanical function between the self and the environment in which the self exists, which results in a symbolic translation that expresses varying degrees of dissonance and harmony.

But there is also a clearly defined conceptual boundary which humans have surpassed, which is the capacity to not merely react to their environment, but to act as an equally dominating force of it. The nature of the reflective mind contained in it's environment; reacting and translating what is observed into what is perceived: it is one of dissonance and harmony, and results in uncontrollable chaos. Man is a function of his environment, instead of defining the environment.

It is the will to exceed one's own expectations, as an creature of nature, and as a consciousness. When we have crafted an entire networked world that begins on a completely conceptual level, I think the question of what we are, and what we have become, and the control we have over that, deserves more than a cursory thought.

It's that looping around the argument that causes it to collapse. I use my mind to explain my mind. The model doesn't fit the current data, only all the data leading up to it.

<comment><USER4> His book is called 'The Origin of Consciousness in the _Breakdown_ of the Bicameral Mind.' It's precisely the maladaptive aspects of bicameralism in the encounters with increasingly complex social environments that Jaynes postulates as the reason for its evolutionary deprecation.

 _Man is a function of his environment, instead of defining the environment._

Neither of these is true (I realize you are arguing against the first position). We are in constant interaction with our environments, neither simply acted-upon nor possessed of god-like powers of manipulation from whose consequences we are immune. I feel you must not have read Jaynes' book, since he postulated bicameralism at work in tasks such as agricultural planting, which by definition alter the environment. If you haven't read it, then I urge not to rely on the summary explanation that can fit in a blog article or even a longish essay. Jaynes' articulation of his theory is elaborate and discursive, but also rigorous and well-qualified (in terms of acknowledging limitations and the difficulties of falsifiability).

<comment><USER3> I don't think you can prove that neither is true, but I rarely agree with myself to begin with.

I will not rely on the summary explanation, I can assure you of that.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I wonder if he read Bruno Snell's "The Discovery of the Mind: The Greek Origins of European Thought." A lot of what's described in the article about the Greeks and the Iliad/Odyssey is akin to Snell's approach. Though Snell didn't use the idea of the bicameral mind he traced the origins of conscious thought through the Greeks very similarly.

<comment><USER4> He cites it twice, but notes that he and Snell came to quite different conclusions although their lines of inquiry overlap significantly.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I read this book 18 years ago. Definitely interesting and logical take on human behavior. Looks like a revisit of the book has been done. Years ago this crazy self published book series called NeoTech mentioned Jayne's book and some other good titles. I'm embarrassed to have spent cash on NeoTech but pleased I read some of the titles recommended in it.

<comment><USER7> [http://leftinthedark.org.uk/book](http://leftinthedark.org.uk/book) [0] is a take on Jayne's ideas, going much farther in one particular direction. Supposed to be well backed by references - I didn't try to follow them (the reference style leaves much to be desired, and is on its own a signal of low scientific quality). But it is extremely interesting and thought provoking.

[0] I read the first edition. I don't know how the recent one differs, if at all.

<comment><AUTHOR> I read that. A lot of the biology is nonsense. (While Jaynes is also unlikely to be true, there it's more that it's a daring idea confined to high-level description and speculation, rather than incoherent gibberish about DNA and fruits.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> If there's anything we've learned as AI moves forward, it's that introspecting about how the human mind works doesn't help much. We're just not wired for enough internal access to look at how our own minds work.

Machine learning is starting to demonstrate that something that starts to look semi-intelligent can be built, using rather simple techniques and enough compute power. Convolutional neural networks don't take much code to implement. They just hammer hard on a simple numerical computation. The amazing thing is that it works.

<comment><USER9> > We're just not wired for enough internal access to look at how our own minds > work.

How can you justify saying this, given we (as a species) are less than 100 years into the exploration of our own minds? At best, you could argue that we do not yet have the vocabulary to argue how our minds work. It's a bit early to suggest we "are not wired" to understand our own cognition.

<comment><USER10> Well half of those years we've been using additional "wires" (computers) and ramping up dramatically our reliance on our cyborg halves in the pursuit, so I don't think it's crazy to suggest he original pre-cyborg wiring was inadequate to he task.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I remember the book (it's fascinating), end also why I read it: Because of one intriguing phrase I read in a Dawkins or Dawkins/Dennett book that was something like "The most brilliant(ly put)? hypothesis that is probably not true".</comment>


Show HN: One-Click Crunchbase Chrome Extension - <AUTHOR> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/cmpny/jepfgfamngibgnggnfiiefaammcipmgi <comment><AUTHOR> I've beed doing market research recently and realized that I'm doing the same pattern repeatedly: 1) Open the company page 2) Copy company's name 3) Google for Crunchbase page 4) Analyze Crunchbase company info

And surprisingly, there was no chrome extension that could just show Crunchbase info in one click, without registration and other bullshit.

So I made one for myself, maybe you will also find it useful :)

Feedback and suggestions are appreciated.</comment>


I Will Forever Remain Faithful (2014) - <AUTHOR> http://www.oxfordamerican.org/magazine/item/171-i-will-forever-remain-faithful <comment><USER2> I don't listen to Lil' Wayne but I do watch his interviews (it's hard to NOT watch them). He seems genuine and truly cares about his city, his fans and the music he makes.

</comment><comment><USER3> You don't get to be an educator and excuse stuff by saying "oh but he smiles." There's a reason the teacher is often perceived as boring and out of touch --s/he is supposed to find what her/his students do not / cannot / want not to see.

Check out [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjxjZe3RhIo&list=RDWjxjZe3Rh...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjxjZe3RhIo&list=RDWjxjZe3RhIo)

</comment><comment><USER4> The intentional spelling of 'gangsta' along with using Lil' Wayne quotations throughout the headings is incredibly condescending.

Especially condescending though, is the author's assumption that Lil' Wayne would "flip" an old Elvis quotation to apply to himself, albeit in broken English.</comment>


Dow Jones hit by worst fall since 2008 - rwx<comment> http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42942921 </comment><comment><AUTHOR> Actual title is "Dow Jones stock index hit by record falls"

It's not the worst since 2008; there was a more severe drop in percentage terms in 2011.</comment>


Smeed's law - <AUTHOR> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smeed%27s_law <comment><USER2> I think that people in low-population areas often drive more recklessly because they assume that nobody else will be on the road, and they're usually right. (And they tend to have a larger distance to go to get to anything interesting).

</comment><comment><USER3> Have we invented psychohistory yet?

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychohistory_(fictional)>

</comment><comment><USER4> Dyson's quote said, "Smeed interpreted his law as a law of human nature."

If this is true, then this formula should appear outside the world of driving. Has it been applied anywhere else? I did a quick search and found nothing.

I wonder if it applies to flying, rail travel, employment related fatalities, medical related fatalities, etc...

</comment><comment><USER5> interesting...I wonder if there is a similar law for Internet traffic. Is the overall network congestion is determined by the amount of "sluggishess" (appropriately defined) that the average user experiences?

<comment><USER6> Back in the dialup days, waiting for a web page to load for over 1 minute was about it. More than that, and one would either move on or treat the medium different: for example, instead of interacting with the webpage, one would set it to load and go do something else, and come back later. Or give up. There was an alternative, though: going down to the internet cafe to get fast access.

The existence of the alternative affected one's perception of the "slowness", just as being stuck in traffic in LA made me wish for a proper subway system.

No quantification, just anecdotal observations.</comment></comment>


2x 40 min of train everyday. Best way to spend them? - <AUTHOR>

Hi HN community,
I'm a 22 years old developer. For the next 2 months I have to do 2x 40 min of train travel everyday to move between my home and my workplace.
What are your advices to spend this time in the more productive way?
How do you spend your time travel? <comment><USER2> Carry a notebook, if you actually sit down in the train.

You'll find that you are far more insightful and lucid when excluded from wasting time online/starting at a screen.

Doodle, write, note down each station - just treat every page as a blank page.

You will be surprised by the results.

</comment><comment><USER3> Try talking to one new person each day on your ride. And play your level up until you are able to enter an engaging conversation with anyone on that train. Social skills are having in my opinion the most severe impact on your life.

<comment><USER4> Please don't. Most people riding commuter trains just want to be left in peace.

Developing social skills is absolutely a valuable thing, but it's not fair to make innocents on the train be your tutors.

Practice social skills with co-workers, at networking events, or in shared- interest groups (join a book club, an outdoors society, etc.)

<comment><USER3> I'm sorry to disagree, but I promise you that at least the strong extroverts would be happy to talk to somebody at least. Just by the numbers that should make up and not too small part of a train passengers. Plus it is easy to wander around or pretend to exit on the next stop in case the situation gets too awkward.

In fact I would argue that this is exactly the right social environment for practicing social skills as it takes place outside the typical peer groups and "save" settings. In a setting where people know somebody already a sudden change in social interactions might come across as weird and odd. The same thin a train is totally random and chances are super small to meet these people again.

<comment><USER4> > Plus it is easy to wander around or pretend to exit on the next stop in case > the situation gets too awkward.

Again, I'm sorry, but I really think this is a bad idea. You're talking about making somebody to get up and move seats or cars to avoid you?

> chances are super small to meet these people again.

Except not if it's a commuter train. If you ride the same train at the same time, you're likely to see mostly the same people going to and from work.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Listen to podcasts or audiobooks. Or just think.

<comment><AUTHOR> Do you have any audiobooks or podcasts that you'd be happy to share?

<comment><USER6> Finding good stuff is so damn hard. I'm listening to that stuff whenever I do anything that doesn't require too much focus. Time that adds up.

Three I can recommend:

[http://shoptalkshow.com/](http://shoptalkshow.com/) \- Webdesign and development mostly

[http://javascriptjabber.com/](http://javascriptjabber.com/) \- If you're interested in JavaScript development

[http://www.dancarlin.com//disp.php/hharchive](http://www.dancarlin.com//disp.php/hharchive) \- Free older recordings of history podcasts. He adds a lot of emotion and perhaps bias to every story but as a result they are never dry and often from an unusual perspective

<comment><USER7> +1 for Dan Carlin. I only listened to the history of the Mongols.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Project Euler. That's what I used to do while commuting to London.

[https://projecteuler.net/problems](https://projecteuler.net/problems)

<comment><AUTHOR> I started doing the exercises as a way to learn Clojure some time ago. I can pick up where I had left.

Thanks for the idea.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Stanford eCorner and Harvard Business Review podcasts are really good to listen to if you have to stand. If you've listened to all you can go with conference speeches, I usually grab them from Youtube.

If you can sit most of the time I would advise you to buy a Kindle and read books or blogposts. It is much more easier to concentrate on the material and it doesn't make your eyes tired like a phone.

</comment><comment><USER10> I used to have a commute like this and thought it was going to be such a time waste. Then i realized it was good me time.

great time for reading and also note taking. Look into your options on your phone or tablet and really pimp them out with consumption as well as productivity.

For note you may want to write your own little app, evernote will open by the time the commutes over.

</comment><comment><USER11> I have done a 2x 40 minutes train commute for the last year, before I started I bought a Kindle and read a lot of books. I have found it to be very productive, if you are really motivated you can read books which are related to your job. So when you arrive at work you are ready to apply some new things you learnt. Otherwise I sometimes catch some sleep if I am tired.

</comment><comment><USER12> I find when I commute that writing an email TODO list of the work I will be doing today, or a TODO list of things I want to do next on my side project. Generally it gives me lots of simple ideas.

A train trip can be disruptive. Take on tasks that are small in nature, and your thought process will not lose out on in-depth analysis of any one problem.

</comment><comment><USER13> Listen to Nujabes[1] and reflect on what you did yesterday, what you did excellent, what you could have done better and internalize that information.

[1]: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y-uG8o4dsE](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y-uG8o4dsE)

</comment><comment><USER14> Get a good podcast app and a list of podcasts. Try this list (some outdated): [http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1644/what-good- technology...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1644/what-good-technology- podcasts-are-out-there)

</comment><comment><USER15> I've been working on live coding of audio during my commute. It's a good way to keep the brain active and learn a new language, with the added benefit of being hypnotically relaxing. Also doesn't have to require internet.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm not sure to understand what you're calling "live coding of audio". Are you talking about things like the music on toplap.org or the clojure's lib "overtone" ?

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> I'd suggest to stay away from coding (unless you can't help it of course).

Listen to personal development / inspiration materials / something to enrich your spirit outside of workspace.

</comment><comment><USER17> I have my Instapaper feed delivered to my Kindle, so I use my commute time to read that and the NY Times. Using that "dead" time helps me keep up with what's going on in the world.

</comment><comment><USER18> Reading. Offline programming (or online, if the train has wifi). Or anything else, really. How do you normally spend your time? What do you _want_ to do with your time?

</comment><comment><USER19> I have a 2x47 minute train commute, and I use it for side projects. It's also the most productive time of the entire day, and I always look forward to it!

</comment><comment><USER20> Podcasts are the way to go. I cannot recommend RadioLab podcasts highly enough. At so many levels it's the best radio program ever made

</comment><comment> T-zex Put some ambient music, close your eyes and meditate. You don't have to be productive 24x7.

<comment><AUTHOR> I think you are right. I don't need to stay focus on the "productive" word.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> I read a lot if I have those 40 mins. I try to learn stuff.

</comment><comment><USER22> Run laps in the isle.

</comment><comment><USER23> Sleep.

</comment><comment><USER24> SQUATS

</comment><comment><USER25> Bagpipes.</comment>


Some light is the dark space of databases - <AUTHOR> I have been reading a bunch of articles on internet, and I must admit that because of unicorns, the dream of exponential growth startups and all the buzz around it ... a lot of people become paranoïd, and prematurely think about growth ...
Therefore, I have been obsessed about choosing the right db technology and the right place to host it for the best price/performances ratio.
The project is a mix of business listing and social network, with a search engine letting users find shops by category and see activity of his friends (who when there, commented, liked, what he bought, somebody invited you to go to YYY etc) ...
I am kind of stuck, trying to find the best choice for it before sarting, choosing between SQL and NOSQL and in the case of NOSQL, choosing the right technology...
If anybody has some insights and advices. After reading a beat ... It looks like Cloudant, Cassandra and mongo should be fierce contenders.
The problems I see are: they are schemaless (pretty usefull when you need flexibility, and I probably will) but then do I lose the ability to enforce "type" of data on specific "fields" ... such as an age being an int and not a string, and the db sending an error if I submit the value "twelve" instead of 12 ...  or set required fields ... ? this should be handled by backend  check before sending to db? (I would be using golang) <comment><AUTHOR> Any opinion?</comment>


Ask HN: Investing in own startup counts as business expense? - <AUTHOR>

I am starting a company - do not expect any revenues this year, but will be spending my money. Can I count it as a business expense (I have some income from other sources) or should I incorporate right away and call it a loan? <comment><USER2> Very general guidelines (see a CPA for precise guidance):

Under technical IRS rules, you need to be "in business" in order to be able to deduct your business-related expenses. That means it can't just a hobby. It also means that you can't just be doing preparatory steps to start the business (expenses incurred in preparing to start, even including incorporation expenses, are normally classified as "startup expenses" and are not deductable, though you can elect to amortize them over a 5-year period once you do start).

Assuming that you are in fact "in business," and that you have already started, you can deduct away regardless of whether you have any current revenues. With a proper S election for a corporation, or with an LLC, you can even pass through the losses (to the extent of your tax basis only) and offset them against other income you may be earning.

Again, check with a CPA for details.

Hope this helps.

</comment><comment><USER3> My understanding is that under an S-Corp that yes you can write off expenses paid by your personal account as a business expense. You need to see a CPA though so that you are on the right path, they save you a lot of money by identifying strategies you can use to cover purchases as tax deductible. A CPA is a cost you can not afford to not afford.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! I'll incorporate</comment>


Yes you can use challenging vocabulary in a picture book - <AUTHOR> https://picturebookden.blogspot.com/2018/07/whats-in-word-yes-you-can-use.html <comment><USER2> When I wrote _Lauren Ipsum_ , a children's book about computer science, I used the real words for everything. Words are random anyway so you might as use the ones everyone else does. There are a few puns, eg "Hugh Rustic" teaches heuristics, "Eponymous Bach" names everything after herself, and "Xor" is a colorblind chameleon. I also included a species of animal called the Jargon who constantly spout computer jargon. They are cute in small numbers but will run you over if you let them.

My favorite comment was from a mom who'd read it with her six-year-old. Weeks later she was storing her luggage, putting the smaller ones into bigger ones. The kid piped up and said, "Mommy, that's recursion!".

Kids are smart. It's astonishing what kids can do if you don't tell them it's too hard.

<comment><USER3> I'm reading the reviews for your book on Amazon, and they're quite amusing. One person suggests the book is good "for a middle-schooler, maybe high school", and another read it to her six year-old daughter who apparently loved it. Some adults have picked it up to read seemingly without any intent to share it with a younger child.

A lot of people say it has an "Alice in Wonderland" feel, which is a huge compliment because that book is nuts.

Where should I buy the print book if I happen to be boycotting Amazon?

<comment><USER4> Probably cannot go wrong buying directly from the publisher: [https://nostarch.com/laurenipsum](https://nostarch.com/laurenipsum)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I remember listening to the Lemony Snicket author telling Terry Gross how he plants his favorite obscure words in his super-popular kids' books, in the hope of propagating them to the next generation of readers. That seemed brilliant to me. IIRC, the example he gave was 'eschew', but that might be faulty memory as I also enjoy eschewing things.

<comment><USER6> He also used "ersatz" prominently.

<comment><USER5> Now that you mention it I think that was it. Another great word. Thanks!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I'm in the midst of writing my first picture book.

I needed a release from the general stress of dealing with the cybersecurity challenges, and something for children sounded great.

The world of my book is devoid of computers or complex machinery. Instead, magic exists and just as in real life with computers, people approach it in different ways. Some use it help them prepare better looking and tasting food. Some use it to help others get around more quickly. Some use it to make music or play with pets. Some sometimes let it get in the way of the time with their children.

The core lesson that the book tries to incept is that magic (i.e., computers) should aid in our humanity, not detract from it. The protagonist is a little girl with a blind brother. At first, she resents having to help him with tasks, but throughout the story she learns the importance of helping other people. She has a natural knack for controlling mushrooms, so the book ends with her helping her brother by conjuring mushroom stairs and the like, and he has a secret power of his own that he confides in her. He can get small rodents, like mice and chipmunks, to do simple things for him. Armed with this fact if you reread the story you'll see them in the background helping him out.

I've been researching how to write for children and the biggest area of disagreement seems to be over how complex words can be. For example, most books say to stick to simple "said" words ("she said", "he sung", etc) but they seem to disagree over whether complex words are allowed. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to make the book good, but I'd love to be able to imbue the book with words like "portabello", "oyster", "shiitake" because of how important their role is in the story. I also think it could be a touching way for families to talk about food later at the dinner table and would make kids more friendly to mushrooms; a healthy, sustainable food choice.

Has anyone here made a picture book for 4-6 year olds that can comment?

<comment><USER8> If anything, you'll make a bunch of kids mushroom experts, just like some of them take to dinosaur names like maniacs. It sounds magical too, very fitting.

<comment><USER7> Thanks :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> But using no words whatsoever is also wonderful. Here is "On Top", by Marilyn MacGregor: [https://www.amazon.com/Top-marilyn- macgregor/dp/068807491X/r...](https://www.amazon.com/Top-marilyn- macgregor/dp/068807491X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1530603624&sr=8-1&keywords=%22On+top%22+macgregor)

<comment><USER10> The Longest Day of the Future is another good example.

[https://www.amazon.com/Longest-Day-Future-Lucas- Varela/dp/16...](https://www.amazon.com/Longest-Day-Future-Lucas- Varela/dp/1606999516)

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I am a strong believer that reading is extremely enriching for the mind. Any additional ways to enhance that experience, in my books, is a win.</comment>


Programming Games: Celebrating 30 years of Color Robot Battle - <AUTHOR> http://www.retroprogramming.com/2011/02/celebrating-30-years-of-color-robot.html

<comment><USER2> I've been reading about genetic algorithms, and playing with some game ideas recently, and this game brings up some very interesting ideas of what one could do with a game...</comment>


Show HN: Concurrent Wifi Users - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YnGlV0MnFg <comment><AUTHOR> This shows wifi user locations throughout a day with each room having one AP. Devices consists of laptops, tablets and phones using various 802.11 wireless standards. Data was collected throughout the day from a pair of Cisco 2504 WLAN controllers.

The controllers were queried about once per minute and the usage was saved to a CSV file. I then wrote an R script to transform each sample into it's own PNG graph. I used ffmpeg to merge all of the PNG files into a 1080p MP4 video.</comment>


Vonage: "Unlimited" minutes capped at 3000 minutes. - <AUTHOR>

Was looking at Vonage to get "unlimited" calling minutes until I came across this:
http://www.vonage.com/reasonable_use_policy/?refer_id=WEBHO0706010001W1
Read this paragraph specifically
"Over 95% of Vonage's residential unlimited calling plan customers use less than 3000 minutes per month and do not have any unusual usage patterns in terms of unique numbers called, high call forwarding/transferring usage and so on. A customer's aggregate usage may be considered outside of normal use if it exceeds 3000 minutes per month IN COMBINATION with one or more of the following, including, but not limited to, excessive:
unique numbers called; call lengths; call forwarding/transferring; conference calling; short duration calls; number of calls made during a month, number of calls made to a conference calling service during a month; number of calls made during business hours; number of calls terminated and re-initiated consecutively, which, in the aggregate, result in excessive call lengths during a specific time frame; or other abnormal calling patterns indicative of an attempt to evade enforcement of this Reasonable Use Policy" <comment><USER2> Well, it's unlimited for residential use; you aren't allowed to use it for a business. So essentially they're saying that if it looks like you're using the plan for a business, they can investigate.

</comment><comment><USER3> I quit Vonage a long time ago when I noticed my bill was steadily rising around 25 cents each months over a 4/5 year period. When I tried to cancel service, I found out that in order to cancel you have to remember their 'special' assigned password to get the the web page that gives you a number to call to cancel. After calling and waiting a long time to speak to a representative, the call quality was horrible!! I have to think this is part of their business model. I am not impressed with this company.</comment>


Material Design with AngularJS - <AUTHOR> https://www.airpair.com/posts/review/55553d950e09ef11004063b9

<comment><USER2> I really like the effort that has been put into ionic and material design. But still I would really like to see more projects like reapp.io which is a react mobile web (not native) extension for react. Reapp's launch was totally overshadowed by the launch of react native, but works great and currently only has a ios theme.</comment>


Seeing stars again: Naval Academy reinstates celestial navigation - <AUTHOR> http://www.capitalgazette.com/news/naval_academy/ph-ac-cn-celestial-navigation-1014-20151009-story.html <comment><USER2> That's a wise decision.

The stars, sun, and moon are hard to electronically spoof or jam.</comment>