BigStash offers 5 TB storage free for one year - <AUTHOR> https://www.bigstash.co

<comment><USER2> FYI, after one year the price jumps to $500 dollars a year, for 5TB[0].

Comparatively, you can get a single user, 1TB storage Google Apps account, for $10[1] a month, and mount it with Expandrive for a one time license cost of $50[2]. This comes in at a yearly cost of $120, with a first year cost of $170.

Obviously, there is a 4TB discrepancy, but as an owner of this setup, I actually have 10TB of space available to me, which I suspect is just Google being nice.

Outside of reputable services, I'm fairly paranoid of the "put all your data with us for free for a year" and possibly run into serious price gouges in the future, leveraging slow internet speeds and long download times against unwitting users. I'm not by any means saying all companies are like this, but I'm very afraid of the power companies can have over my files[3].

[0] [https://www.bigstash.co/pricing/](https://www.bigstash.co/pricing/). [1] [https://support.google.com/a/answer/6034782?hl=en](https://support.google.com/a/answer/6034782?hl=en) [2] [http://www.expandrive.com/](http://www.expandrive.com/) [3] [http://www.pcworld.com/article/2838327/bitcasa-nixes- unlimit...](http://www.pcworld.com/article/2838327/bitcasa-nixes-unlimited- cloud-storage-even-for-existing-subscribers.html)

<comment><USER3> There's also hubic ([https://hubic.com/en/offers/](https://hubic.com/en/offers/)), with an even more interesting pricing plan, and also compatible with expandrive.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> This looks mighty fishy.

They claim to be based on Glacier, yet their plans (1TB and up) are _cheaper_ than Glacier itself. They offer 5TB for $500/yr, on Glacier it costs $600/yr.

Even more worrying, they don't mention any retrieval fees nor limits.

Glacier will charge them almost $800 if they let you download your 5TB in a reasonable timeframe (7 days).

So, they are going to lose up to ~$1000 USD on every customer that takes their free offer, stores a significant portion of the free 5TB for a year and then downloads it all to move elsewhere...

Either that or they must have a truly amazing discount with Amazon.

Edit: Even assuming such a discount exists, that still looks like a very expensive marketing campaign considering most users will likely churn out after their free year...

<comment><USER5> Hi, I'm the founder of BigStash.

We have been working with AWS Glacier for two years now, and we are very well aware of its complicated pricing scheme.

Part of our offering is the abstraction layer over Glacier's pricing. Yes, you may download all your files today. But this will probably be just 0.001% of the total Glacier storage we manage, and as such, it will not cost BigStash as much.

Something you didn't mention, is that there are also bandwidth costs involved. But the way our service is designed is more suitable for the kind of data you will rarely download. (And BTW, this will probably be a long-term relationship, if we live up to our promise and offer a good and reasonably priced service.)

Plus, most users will not use 100% of the storage they purchase. We expect this to be more often in larger plans, that's why we are offering a lower price per GB.

<comment><USER4> Thanks for your honest reply. It still seems like a pretty risky gamble to me (esp. since you mention no download limits), but wish you good luck with your service.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> From what I can gather, BigStash is a rebrand of Deepfreeze.io, which itself is a sideproject of Longaccess.com, launched in 2013.

Not sure why, but the old saying 'if it's too good to be true, it probably is' keeps going around my head.

5tb would cost you what, £170 to purchase? (Brief Google search, feel free to correct me). Multiply that by the amount of customers that will sign up for this and it seems a little bit of a loss maker to me.

Note this is all just conjecture on my part, and I could be completely wrong.

<comment><USER5> Hi, I'm the founder of BigStash.

The idea is simple: this is an archiving service in the cloud. If you want to test an archiving service in the cloud, you will probably want to upload multiple GB. We wanted our users to feel free to use the service in order to decide if it fits their needs.

Yes, if you store 5TB it will cost you $500 next year. But that's relatively cheap compared to most other cloud storage services.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> I suggest that anyone who's tried to use Amazon Glacier think about this... this service looks amazing. What happens though when you want to leave (or stop paying) would the users own S3 and Glacier accounts be able to have the files moved there?

</comment><comment><USER8> Interesting concept: non-immediate access to large amounts of storage.

<comment><USER9> I don't understand the concept though. non-immediate access is great, but at a reduced price - right?

Having a deep storage type service priced the same as Dropbox / GDrive (for 1TB atleast), seems odd to me.

I'd love this service if it was significantly cheaper than Dropbox, but i'm currently using Dropbox for the same thing and it's a $1 cheaper. Sure, i could pay 5x the price for 5x the storage on BigStash, but that's just not in my needs currently.</comment></comment>


What if? On the value of counterfactual history - <AUTHOR> https://aeon.co/essays/what-if-historians-started-taking-the-what-if-seriously <comment><USER2> I always saw it as constructing versus running models. Historians dispassionately collect and interpret data. In doing so they can come to surprising conclusions, _e.g._ around how violence [1] or hegemony [2] propagate. Counterfactualists run these models to simulate decisions, both past and present.

[1] [http://www.amazon.com/The-Better-Angels-Our- Nature/dp/149151...](http://www.amazon.com/The-Better-Angels-Our- Nature/dp/1491518243)

[2 [http://www.amazon.com/Tragedy-Great-Power-Politics- Updated/d...](http://www.amazon.com/Tragedy-Great-Power-Politics- Updated/dp/0393349276/ref=la_B001H6RT1O_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1449681758&sr=1-1)

<comment><USER3> Have there been any serious attempts to generate more rigorous models that can be simulated? I'm sure any such attempt would fall far short of reality, but even a terrible failure would be fascinating.

<comment><AUTHOR> I basically agree with DanielBMarkham's comment below, but I have nonetheless been thinking about trying to do something like this for awhile now. I've been struck by how many historians my age got interested in history in part because of the Civilization game franchise. When I was a kid I became obsessed with setting up Civ II games to run over night with every civ played by the AI, then seeing which one ended up conquering the New World. At some level, this surely influenced my decision to study the Columbian Exchange in grad school, which is what I work on now. So even if it doesn't yield any usable empirical data, I think it would be an amazing teaching tool. And who knows, maybe in 10 years, some hyper-advanced version of an historical simulation game might end up proving useful in answering certain highly specific historical question (i.e., why did Spanish galleons suffer a lower rate of shipwreck than Portuguese ones, or the like).

At any rate, if anyone knows about projects along these lines, I'd be very interested to hear about them. I think the trouble would be 1) convincing funding agencies that it's not a fool's errand and 2) arranging for an effective collaboration between historians and computer scientists/game designers/whoever else would have relevant expertise. But it does strike me as something which could be fascinating.

<comment><USER4> In away, this is what economic models are trying to do. Develop a system that predicts the past, use it to predict the future(s).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Counterfactuals are great for students, for readers of popular fiction, for philosophers and pundits.

They just suck for historians. That's because a historian is fortunate to concentrate on what actually happened, removed from his or her opinion about things at large. When engaging in a counterfactual, all of that subjective "nonsense" (in strictly historical terms) comes to the surface and the historian is just engaging in a form of intellectual self-stimulation.

I love reading them, and coming up with my own, but they're a form of polemic, not an academic pursuit of their own. I think most professional historians understand that.

<comment><USER6> Historians' "customers" are other historians. We do have people building historically-rich entertainment product ( in the manner of Michener ) out of that grist. It's hard to say that is worse than, say, just-television. One thing we get is actually good television - I consider "Vikings" a great deal of fun, and it has at least legend integrated in to a narrative framework.

Somebody has to popularize things or it just dries out. And I can't tell you how much history of things long ago has changed just in the last five decades or so. The things didn't change... but the story did.

It's sad how little faith we have in nonfiction mass media.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> One area where I find counterfactuals interesting is where they give a fictionalized account of plans that are themselves historical - SIOP at the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis or the Nazi Generalplan Ost.

</comment><comment><USER8> See also, "What If Counterfactuals Never Existed?" [https://newrepublic.com/article/119357/altered-pasts- reviewe...](https://newrepublic.com/article/119357/altered-pasts-reviewed- cass-r-sunstein)

</comment><comment><USER9> A really odd alternate history novel I read recently is called 'Pavane'. Worth a read if you're into that kind of thing.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavane_(novel)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavane_\(novel\))

</comment><comment><USER10> A really good (and entertaining) book on how counterfactuals reflect shifting biases is "The World Hitler Never Made: Alternate History and the Memory of Nazism" by Gavriel Rosenfeld. It collects and analyzes "Hitler won" stories from pre-WW2 until the present.</comment>


Web designers don't need college degrees - <AUTHOR> http://blog.teamtreehouse.com/web-designers-dont-need-college-degrees

<comment><USER2> If I could have been a web developer 6 years ago before college only by interest alone - things would be different. In industry, it is required to have 2-4 years experience or a degree to even get your foot in the door (or a callback).

Also, I feel like people who took the time to get degrees have the groundwork to learn new things faster. Treehouse seems redundant since youtube has videos on every topic that they teach. I don't know...maybe some people learn better with puppets.

</comment><comment><USER3> The skill itself certainly doesn't require a degree. But, a degree does give you options to pursue other careers if you decide not to be a designer or developer. It never looks bad to have a computer science or related degree on your resume, but not having a degree at all could certainly limit your opportunities. I think the better advice would be to pursue an economically responsible degree while supplementing your skill set with services like treehouse. Just my opinion, of course.</comment>


Can Your List Library Do This? - <AUTHOR> http://dvanhorn.lambda-calcul.us/2011/05/01/list-challenge/

<comment><USER2> This article seems kind of poorly written. I guess it's some kind of sparse data structure written in a functional way -- the numerical linear algebra people have been doing similar things with sparse matrices and vectors for decades now. I wish there was more motivation and explanation here rather than most of the post being a monospace printout of digits.

<comment><USER3> Not to mention no units on the timings, and no explanation as to why the heck you'd want to calculate 2^100000. (Or is that just a convenient way to construct a very long list?) Glad I wasn't the only one puzzled by it.

Edited to add: Ah, based on other comments, it's constructing a list of 2^100000 of the same symbol, and then later on, 2^100000 - 1 of that symbol and 1 of another symbol. Which I guess is interesting, but doesn't seem wildly impressive?

<comment><USER2> the first time i read it, i thought he was computing 2^N and turning it into a list of digits. but, no, he was making a list of that length.

so, if you're going to pose a challenge to people, you should clearly describe what you're doing and why.

<comment><USER3> Especially because once we've sorted out what he is trying to demonstrate (I think) it seems dead trivial to duplicate? I mean, the only thing stopping me from doing that same demo with blazing speed in the deadly slow Rakudo Perl 6 compiler is the speed of calculating 2^100000....

PS For what it's worth, I'm guessing he's doing something more interesting than the dead simple implementation I'm imagining...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'm going to show my ignorance and ask for a bit more of an explanation please?

<comment> cgrand-net It builds a list of 2^100000 'x items (to put it in perspective a petabyte is 2^50) so obviously the list is not realized.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Anybody know what the units are on the (time) calls? Makes a big difference whether these are seconds, ms, or μs.

<comment><USER6> It is milliseconds according to the Racket documentation.

[http://docs.racket- lang.org/reference/time.html?q=time#(def....](http://docs.racket- lang.org/reference/time.html?q=time#\(def._\(\(quote._~23~25kernel\)._time- apply\)))</comment></comment>


Ask HN: What will happen if Twitter disables Trump's account? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> Twitter would have to recognize, an in kind contribution to any candidate running against the President.

"The value of an in-kind contribution—the usual and normal charge—counts against the contribution limit as a gift of money does. Additionally, like any other contribution, in-kind contributions count against the contributor's limit for the next election, unless they are otherwise designated."

[1]: [https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/filing- re...](https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/filing-reports/in- kind-contributions/)

</comment><comment><USER3> Absolute bedlam in the US. Trump's base would _lose their flippin' minds_.

Would it go as far as an actual civil war? I'm not sure who the opponent would be. If I were @jack, would I be scared for my life? Yes.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, it's crazy how powerful Twitter is. It's one hell of a product.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> They won't. Twitter needs those views.

<comment><AUTHOR> True. Do you think there is a tipping point?

<comment><USER5> I'm sure there is, but I'm not sure we want to find out what it is.

<comment><AUTHOR> True. Sounds super messy.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> blaser-waffle He moves to VK.</comment>


Anonymouth – Document Anonymization Tool - q-_-p https://github.com/psal/anonymouth <comment><AUTHOR> Someone should make something like this that could be given an arbitrary file and simply removes metadata from it. For example, remove GPS and camera data from pics or author license key info from Word docs and PDFs.

<comment><USER2> I have found _rm -f_ to work great for that! /s

Wouldn't such a tool have to be based on easily outdated or broken blacklists of parts of the file? Complex file formats like DOC can leak data in an immense number of ways.

<comment><USER3> rm only removes OS "metadata" \-- it removes the link to the reference. The file's data is not touched.

Here's a stupid but effective way I came up with to delete the data in files when they are too large to be stored in RAM:

Use dd on the device where the file is stored.

Files intended for eventual deletion can be stored on their own dedicated virtual block devices, or "file-backed virtual disks".

Unless things have changed, on OpenBSD these virtual block devices can be created from /dev/vnd.

To create a location to store the file(s) at, create an empty "backing" file with dd, associate it with a vnd, newfs the vnd and mount it.

To delete all the files on the mounted vnd, either umount and dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/vnd{no}d or dd if=/dev/zero of=rvnd{no}d and umount.

One can also configure a cryptographic disk device over the vnd using a random throwaway password.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Last change is 3 years old. That means it is quite dead. Also, so many libraries but no Maven :(

<comment><USER5> It's so far an academic tool created by a research lab and not used much in the wild [?]. So it needs more funding, or someone to adopt it for regular real-world usage:

Some related things are discussed here: [https://github.com/psal/anonymouth/issues/6](https://github.com/psal/anonymouth/issues/6)</comment></comment>


LinkedIn Posts $243M In 2010 Revenue, $15.4 Million In Net Income - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2011/03/11/linkedin-posts-243m-in-2010-revenue-15-4-million-in-net-income/

<comment><USER2> My startup founder and I were recently discussing their sources of revenue. LinkedIn goes a little lighter on ads and offsets by charging for three tier levels of membership. For example, if you want to send X "InMails" you have to be at X level of membership. This model is debilitating.

I watched my classmate the other day 1.) Find the person he was trying to contact through LinkedIn 2.) Try to send them an InMail 3.) Only to find out he had to upgrade to a paid membership to do so 4.) Copy/Paste the person's name (from LinkedIn) into Google's search engine with the word "email" added to the end 5.) Found their email address in the first result (via a campus directory) 6.) Proceeded to Yahoo Mail to reach out to them.

This may not work with names like Rick Smith, but that six step process only took him 20-30 seconds.

Would you pay $30+ to upgrade your LinkedIn account for InMail or would you rather spend 30 seconds to Google them?

<comment><USER3> I hate LinkedIn's business model and would change in a heartbeat if there was a decent alternative.

I feel like LinkedIn is the MySpace of professional social networking. Now that professionals are comfortable with the concept, it's only a matter of time until a competitor comes along and steals their business.

<comment><USER4> MySpace, heck... it feels more like Classmates.com or Friendster to me.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> It's funny how when a company actually makes profit, TC writes a short facts- only news story with no commentary or excitement. If it were a story of LinkedIn getting another round of funding, they would be gushing over how it was going to take over the world.

</comment><comment><USER6> 243 minus 15 = 227. Ummmm... what did LinkedIn spend $227 million dollars on?

<comment><USER7> Cost of revenue 44,826

Sales and marketing 58,978

Product development 65,104

General and administrative 35,064

Depreciation and amortization 19,551

Total costs and expenses 223,523

[http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1271024/0001193125110...](http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1271024/000119312511064249/ds1a.htm)

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> The fact that we're having this discussion means LinkedIn is doing something right. LinkedIn is under-valued because they are still the only social network for business professionals. LinkedIn continues to make improvements to their service. I know a lot of professionals, myself included, that use LinkedIn regularly and don't use Facebook much at all.

Incidentally, everybody is welcome to add me to your LinkedIn: <http://www.linkedin.com/in/citizenkeys></comment>


Gawker Seeks Probe of Thiel's Relationship with Hogan's Lawyer - <AUTHOR> http://www.wsj.com/articles/gawker-seeks-probe-of-thiels-relationship-with-hogans-lawyer-1476221169 <comment><USER2> They're thrashing around grasping at straws.

They've already declared bankruptcy and lost their case. I'm not quite sure why where the sources of funding from the people who are suing them are relevant.

<comment><USER3> > I'm not quite sure why where the sources of funding from the people who are > suing them are relevant.

Because there are legal and ethical restrictions on third parties paying for your legal representation.

When a third party pays for somebody's legal fees there needs to be an understanding that the third party is not in control of the legal team they're paying for. That's because what the third party wants may not necessarily by in the client's best interests.

I am not saying that applies in this case - I'm just pointing out why courts can and do find it on occasion relevant to ask who is funding a case and whether if it is a third party they have made the appropriate arrangements.

<comment><USER2> Thanks for the explanation. I try to steer clear of the law, as the only thing that I do know is that the law doesn't have to make intuitive sense to non- lawyers.

But in this particular situation, that sort of due diligence makes sense.

If you'll forgive me for a horribly mixed metaphor, this seems like a hail mary pass late in the fourth quarter. I don't think Gawker has much of a chance in any other way, so they're just throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Not to be flippant, but this is pathetic. I don't generally care that much about this sort of dramatic news, but Gawker completely made their own bed here.</comment>


Using the Plan9 Plumber Utility (2013) - <AUTHOR> http://www.mostlymaths.net/2013/04/just-as-mario-using-plan9-plumber.html <comment><USER2> I use plan9 regularly since 2000

In one Acme window I'll be running

        tail -f /n/kremvax/var/log/error-log-of-some-daemon

And then I can plumb the error messages

        runtime error : Var is null at line 45 in /srv/www/cgi/script

I can plumb the error message and Acme will open /n/kremvax/srv/www/cgi/script:45

but for extra fun I could grep script for includes and open them too.

Bear in mind that kremvax is a remote machine.

You can build quite sophisticated rules that fit your workflow. e.g. some URLs open to edit, some to view.

It can even know the difference between which application you are plumbing from.

<comment><USER3> I'm curious, what do you use plan9 for?

<comment><USER2> It is an OS designed by the best minds that built Unix such as Rob Pike, Doug McIlroy, Denis Ritchie, Bruce Ellis, Dave Presotto, Tom Duff, Ken Thompson, Russ Cox ... the list of luminaries goes on and on. They built the tools for themselves to use day in day out with no backwards compatibility constraints and no marketing consideration. Its lack of popularity is not because of technical merit.

If you thought Unix was good, the question should be "why don't you use plan9?"

As for me, I'm a humble coder, so I use the tools I find best for that job.

<comment><USER4> >If you thought Unix was good, the question should be "why don't you use plan9?"

Because I don't control the technical infrastructure of my employer or my employers customers and plan9 is not trivially compatible with that infrastructure.

... Which is why people are interested in what other people are doing with it.

<comment><USER2> Fair comment. But I learned it in my own time on my own computers.

Anyway, one thing I can add is that it is my screenshot on the Acme wikipedia page

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acme_(text_editor)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acme_\(text_editor\))

It has my plumbing rules for editing my php website

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Surprised this got posted, as it is pretty old :D I guess there is a minor Plan9/Acme/Sam renaissance going on these days (many posts related to them.) If you have any questions about Acme, plumber usage or the details in the post please ask here (or drop me an email.)

<comment><USER2> I've been using plan9 for 15 years, there is a constant renaissance. The Plan9 papers and community Web pages are reposted on a HN regularly if not frequently as each new crop of programmers "discovers" the richness.

<comment><USER5> Yup, I fell into it during one of its renaissances.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> This would be neat for linking to source locations in the terminal and in the console output of an IDE.

<comment><USER2> That is one of the defaults that ships with plan9. Any text of the form

        [A-z0-9/_.,-]+:[0-9]+

I..e a path with a line number - e.g. /sys/src/lib9/9.h:5

Will open that file in your editor at that line.

The plan9 utiiities, such as grep -n, will present filenames with line numbers in that form.

It is trivial to add your own such that

        Error X in file /path/to/file on line 5

Will do the same.

Before plan9 had a usable html4 renderer I would send URLs to a listener on a Unix machine with firefox to open them there inside my VNC session.</comment></comment>


Redeye VC: Validate Your Own Damn Market (aka Entrepreneur Pickup Lines) - <AUTHOR> http://redeye.firstround.com/2008/06/validate-your-o.html

<comment><USER2> If your market was thought to be niche or relatively inconsequential, I think it's pretty fair to say the entrance of a major player validates your hypothesis that it was a big deal. You're only screwed if you can't out- execute them.

This seems like a lot of unnecessary laboring over a cliche coupled with some examples of big companies beating smaller companies.

</comment><comment><USER3> My usual response to concerns about competitors is "then we shall hack in the shade".

</comment><comment><USER4> 1\. Create a great new market.

2\. Wait for a Giant to come in to play.

3\. Kick Giant's ass.

4\. Sell yourself to Giant or Giant's competitor.

Hasn't that happened quite a few times in various ways?

<comment><USER5> That's from Ender's Game.</comment></comment>


Airbnb CEO Says Airbnb Hosts in New York City Make 'An Average' of $21K - <AUTHOR> http://www.betabeat.com/2012/01/23/airbnb-ceo-brian-chesky-airbnb-new-york-city-hosts-average-21k-21000-01232012/ <comment><USER2> One of the downsides with a statement like this (i.e x city is making y$/person) is that once you hit enough of a threshold of people on airbnb, it seems like there's going to be too much noise for anyone to really find a place of any value. Reviews and location/price filtering obviously help with that, but I'm curious as to what other types of filtering algorithms the team is working on.

</comment><comment><USER3> Fun question, putting aside the tax implications (which people have already discussed): how legal is this when you're already renting the property?

Everyone I know in NYC rents their apartment. Is it actually legal for you to sublet out your room in short term bookings?

<comment><USER4> You cannot profit legally from a sublet. Some leases may allow you to rent it out for the same amount monthly, or even partially, but you are never allowed to charge more than you pay. AirBnB is actually pretty illegal in NYC, at least the way most people use it.

<comment><USER5> That is not exactly true. If the apartment is not rent controlled there aren't restrictions on how much you can charge. However, you are supposed to do sublets above board with a real lease agreement and the landlord's knowledge.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> At $200 a night, you'd still have to rent your extra room in your teeny tiny apartment 105 days out of the year.</comment>


On Trouser Pockets - <AUTHOR> https://sambleckley.com/writing/pockets.html <comment><USER2> The dismissiveness in this thread is unreal. From the comments you'd think the article only had one sentence insulting the Sanctity of Cargo Pants. If you happily wear baggy jeans or cargo pants, these are not for you and you don't have the problem they solve.

It's an elegant solution to wear slim fitted pants without awful hip pocket bulges. Cargo pants are not the solution here, as they are huge and baggy and the pockets flop around with anything in them.

I'd love to try these.

<comment><USER3> Interestingly I have a pair of pants (these: [https://www.duluthtrading.com/mens-duluthflex-dry-on-the- fly...](https://www.duluthtrading.com/mens-duluthflex-dry-on-the-fly-relaxed- fit-pants-46202.html), see pocket detail here: [https://www.duluthtrading.com/dw/image/v2/BBNM_PRD/on/demand...](https://www.duluthtrading.com/dw/image/v2/BBNM_PRD/on/demandware.static/-/Sites- dtc-master- catalog/default/dwf9cf92ba/images/large/46202_alt_03.jpg?sw=600&sh=600&sm=fit))

They implement this pocket strategy and work well for me. The author would likely be interested to know that this topic was covered in detail as an engineering exercise in NASA flight suits. More functional pockets for people strapped into a vehicle.

One of the more interesting innovations was a pocket on the top of the thigh for holding flight checklists or maps. It had a clear cover so that what was inside the pocket could be viewed without taking it out. A phone pocket like that would be pretty cool (and way nerdy but hey, if the pocket fits ... :-))

<comment><USER4> I recall clicking a Duluth Trading link from a thread not so unlike this on HN years ago and then being followed by ads for their jeans across the internet for at least a year. Of course, I remember that just after clicking your link.

<comment><USER5> Probably google ads. You can click the little x in the corner and make that particular ad go away.

<comment><USER6> Lucky you people: I've been followed around the web for over ten years with Google ads for scammy dating sites (since Zoosk if anyone can remember that).

When I click the x I only get another scammy dating site.

And unlike GP I cannot remember visiting one in the first place :-/

<comment><USER7> Can't you change your google ad preferences?

<comment><USER6> Doesn't help it seems. I've tried at least twice.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> >"Appendix: Sam, have you simply invented cargo pants?

>No. Cargo pants are fashion-as-pretend-occupation — when not at work, wear a fancy chronometer to suggest you're a pilot or a diver, or camo to suggest you're in the military. Cargo pants are a paratrooper costume. Cargo shorts have giant external pouches so teenagers in the 90's, trapped in school, could say (sartorially) "I go out into the world and do adventurous things!" even though the things they stored in those pouches were doritos and portable cd players.

>I am discussing clothing as it might be worn by people while doing their real jobs, not their pretend ones. If cargo pants are appropriate for your real job, you definitely don't want or need my side-seam welt pockets; and vice- versa."

Apologies if I'm dense but it is just a reinvention of cargo pants albeit in a more slick way.

And several techwear brands already provide this kind of pockets and gravity pockets as well

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw8EKP7Qs7U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw8EKP7Qs7U)

<comment><USER9> Yeah, I felt somewhat slandered by the attack on cargo pants. I wore them in high school and still wear them to this day for comfort and convenience. There is a functional elegance of being able to have pens, a small note book, keys+wallet and phone in separate pockets easily accessible. It's like having a preponderance of tabs open, but for pants.

<comment><AUTHOR> Wasn't meant to be an attack -- they just solve a different problem for a different demographic. Like I said -- if you can wear cargo pants at work, then these pants probably don't mean much to you.

<comment><USER10> I'm currently at work (thank Pomodoro for HN breaks, curse Murphy for causing everything to fall apart at the same time on a Friday). I'm a college- educated, homeowner, married, father of one, controls engineer. I spend my days at work between my office programming and designing industrial automation equipment, on the shop floor building it, and customer sites selling, upgrading, or maintaining it. I'm not a punk kid, nor am I a paratrooper, and I don't pretend to be nor do I look like either of those things.

I'm currently wearing cargo pants (Columbia Flex Roc). I typically wear Levi's 541s. The Columbia pants do happen to have a side-seam welt pocket that that meets all your requirements. They're comfortable both in a customer conference room or if I'm on the plant floor inside a machine.

I think the reason people are offended by your characterization is that they wear 'cargo pants' but we are not in a different demographic. My Columbia pants solve the exact problem you have and are worn by people exactly within your demographic. (Not to mention physically closer than you think, after a bit of stalking your website, I'm 20 miles north of you, we probably have some of the same clients).

Though it's also possible that they're not cargo pants, maybe they're dad pants. That.... _might_ be the case. And perhaps you're rebelling against becoming one of 'those' middle-aged men. Just give in to it. Have you tried carrying your multitool in the side seam pocket? It's just so handy! :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Could be.

But the only demographic I named was "people who can wear cargo pants to work", so you kind of set me up for a "no true scotsman". There are events, and clients, to which I wouldn't wear cargo pants, therefore we're in different demographics :)

It is a little disheartening to spend so much time talking about cargo pants, when I relegated them to a postscript and only mentioned them to say "I am not talking about cargo pants".

But nice to meet another michigander! Hopefully I'll see you at some meetup or event once we have those sorts of things again.

<comment><USER11> > It is a little disheartening to spend so much time talking about cargo > pants, when I relegated them to a postscript and only mentioned them to say > "I am not talking about cargo pants".

But that is totally your own fault for denigrating cargo pant wearers in the initial version of the post.

<comment><USER12> He didn't denigrate cargo pants wearers, he just said this design isn't for people who wear them... And then cargo pants wearers decided that was reason to complain even more.

<comment><USER13> He said that people who wear cargo pants just do it dress up like their "pretend job".

Edit: It appears that this was unintentional on the authors part and he has since edited it. Which is great!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> GuB-42 Cargo pants are not the only pants with side pockets. I suggest that you take a look at hiking pants.

Hiking clothing is my preferred kind, even if I am not hiking. Here are some arguments:

\- They tend to look neutral. Not flashy like other kind of sportswear, and not as obvious as cargo pants.

\- They are comfortable, reasonably durable, and low maintenance. They are made for hiking after all.

\- They tend to have plenty of pockets, including ones in the location recommended by the article.

\- Zippers on pockets are common. Makes them safer. They usually have some sort of water resistance too.

\- Speaking of water resistance, it is another great feature of hiking pants, they often have a hydrophobic coating (that doesn't always last unfortunately) and are designed to dry quickly. Rain doesn't only happen during hikes.

Of course, their neutral style is a negative if you want to make a fashion statement, but in a casual setting, if you don't care and don't want others to care, this is perfect.

<comment><USER14> A couple examples:

[https://www.prana.com/p/stretch-zion- straight/M43189927.html](https://www.prana.com/p/stretch-zion- straight/M43189927.html)

[https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-quandary-hiking- pants...](https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-quandary-hiking-pants- regular/55181.html)

<comment><USER15> Hey, that first link has pockets near where this post is talking about.

> Angled dual entry cargo pocket

<comment><USER16> I have one of these. They pocket is pretty good, but it is definitely a two- handed affair To use the zipper and you can feel your phone swing while it is on there. Also definitely bulgy. Helpful in certain contexts like traveling or of course hiking, but doesn't fulfilL the requirements listed in the post.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Y'all are a little touchy about someone criticizing your cargo pants! Consider that perhaps his criticism hits a nerve because there is an element of truth in it - for most people (myself included as a younger person), the symbolism of cargo pants is as important as the function.

<comment><USER18> > most people

Have you performed a survey? My intuition, from my own experience, is that most people are completely ignorant of the symbolism of cargo pants and use them solely for the cargo feature.

I wear Eddie Bauer "Guide Pro" pants. I recommend them, mostly. I haven't found more stylish cargo pants. [https://www.eddiebauer.com/p/12951063/men-s- guide-pro-pants](https://www.eddiebauer.com/p/12951063/men-s-guide-pro-pants)

<comment><USER19> What you posted aren't cargo pants? Those are hiking pants. Cargo pants have large, external pockets.

<comment><USER18> Not all hiking pants have large pockets on the mid/low thigh. Seems more like a Venn diagram relationship.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> This is a cool exercise, but there's a broken assumption. Or an assumption of no outwear I missed:

> Where is there enough support to prevent items swinging around > uncomfortably?

He answered this with a box basically around the thighs, but I'd also add the torso and maybe even the upper arms.

A personal bugbear of mine is jackets without internal breast pockets. When you have one on each side of a jacket that isn't ultra lightweight, it fits a wallet and phone perfectly, it's super accessible, and it doesn't change the appearance. In San Francisco where you never really need to zip/button up your jacket, it's perfect. This is the hill I will die on.

<comment> dan-robertson I think it can be quite hard to make a jacket which won't sag too much or have a weird weight distribution with things in the breast pocket. And you may get a visible lump depending on the size of the item and fit of the jacket (again large flat phones against a not-flat chest doesn't help, and neither does the trend for clothing to fit quite tightly).

That said, I agree with you that internal pockets in jackets are great (though obviously it can be harder to access the contents once you have taken the jacket off).

I do also have a jacket with a pocket on the upper sleeve. It's tiny and weird and basically useless and I'm not really sure what it's for (credit card? Tiny MP3 player? If it were a skiing jacket then I might guess it was for a lift pass but it's definitely not a skiing jacket and it's a weird manoeuvre to try to get your upper arm to a reader at waist height) though sometimes I will put my keys there because their lumpy shape makes them uncomfortable in pockets closer to the skin and I rarely need to access them

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> I like the idea of rethinking an everyday item to make it more usable, while also attending to aesthetics. A lot of technologies could be improved by just writing down a list of "What's this thing really supposed to do?" And then, iterating on that list as the design evolves.

In the case of this article, I have three more feature requests:

1\. The pocket should be narrow enough so the phone can't rotate sideways while it's in there. That's my biggest complaint about cargo or hiking pants, which is what I typically wear.

2\. Pay attention to how the phone behaves while riding a bike. I don't want pants that require me to find a special place for my phone while I'm out and active. But the author's designs look like they stand a real chance.

3\. The pocket should be slightly "hooked" on the inside, so my phone doesn't slide out during my nap. I owe two broken phone screens to this phenomenon.

<comment> crooked-v For 3, I'm a fan of small, discreet zippers. My Bluffworks pants have zippers that are discreet enough to be unnoticeable but sturdy enough for roller coasters.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> You seem kind of touchy on the 'cargo pocket' subject, which is the first thing that came to mind for me. Glad you found something that works for you.

Google 'dockers cell phone pocket'. You can already get shorts and pants with a cell phone pocket on the side. Some very similar to yours, some zippered, some a little closer to the hip, some a little lower.

<comment><AUTHOR> I guess I should re-write that postscript, given how much attention it's receiving. I have nothing against cargo pants! My point was just that they're solving very different problems for different people, and are stuck in a different kind of innovation-rut.

<comment><USER23> IMHO, what you propose and cargo pants have only in common that they're pants with pockets, nothing else. So the last paragraph is warranted, even if it seems that some here feel personally attacked by it... The whole point is how the pockets are integrated into the pants, and that's completely different solution than cargo pants.

Anyway, seems neat! I had some work shorts on a summer job years ago, funnily they were mostly like cargo pants, but they had an additional pocked very similar to your proposed one. It could be used for a folding meter stick (or whatever it's called in English) and that pocket alone made the shorts perfect. It allowed easy storage and access to a frequently used tool which was almost unwieldy long.

Do you plan to sell something like this online?

<comment><AUTHOR> Haha, no, no sales. Making clothes to fit one specific person is an relatively easy task. Making clothes to fit distant internet strangers is much, much harder; and wouldn't pay as well as making software, anyway.

Even the US startups that are making clothes to customized measurements, etc, are forced to stay price-competitive by using the same overseas factories that (in addition to the specific kinds of inflexibility I bring up in the post) are often labor rights disasters, which is part of why I make my own clothes in the first place.

If I had a clear plan of attack against fast fashion, I'd probably take it, but the best I have right now is individual action.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Very interesting idea.

I'm a bit worried about pickpockets though with the pockets so low. Right now if I'm worried about them (I live in Barcelona where they are a major pest!) I put my hands in my pockets. That won't work if they're so far down.

However I do love rethinking common things we take for granted, especially about clothing. For one I don't understand how the common business suit is so popular. It looks really old-fashioned (has hardly changed design over the years), has all sorts of non-functional appendages like those flaps on the jackets, collars, cuffs, ties, nonfunctional pockets, buttons you're not supposed to use etc. They're super uncomfortable, restrictive and sweaty. And they're really generic, everyone from a store manager to a president wears them. And for what? Everyone in business wears them so they're not proving anything.. It's almost like a uniform. Humanity shouldn't be that shallow :) Uniforms are about stripping a person of their identity whereas business and politics is all about being more distinctive than others. I really don't get why this is such a thing :)

<comment><USER25> They're a both a weird thing and a status symbol, because once you pay enough, they're actually really comfortable. I've got a tailored suit which is amazing to wear and not restrictive. Will most people get that experience? No :( It would be better if we used something that can be better quality on a budget.

But at least I can have fun with them.. "buttons you're not supposed to use" is basically an old meme. Button them up if you like and tell people that's the current style. See how many can you convert. That's all it is really. Or wear fun colour suits. There are options if you can afford the game.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> Pockets on dress pants are placed right below the waistband not because someone thought that's the most convenient place for pocket access, but because it conceals them (there, they are hidden under a jacket. Or were, since no one wears a jacket and tie anymore). They're actually there because, indirectly, it's a LESS convenient place to put them.

They're also sewn in line with the outside seam, again to help conceal them.

Pockets are not a feature to showcase on dress pants, and in most cases take away from the formality of the garment.

</comment><comment><USER27> He's reinvented the knife pocket in carpenter jeans. There's also usually a loop nearby for hanging a hammer so you don't have to walk around with your tool bags.

<comment><USER28> Pretty much but I should point out that you can't easily find carpenter pants anymore. And I view the gamer loop as about as useful as the coin pocket: purely decorative in nature.

<comment><USER6> > And I view the gamer loop as about as useful as the coin pocket: purely > decorative in nature.

I use the coin pocket extensively: for coins, medicine, chewing gum etc.

<comment><USER29> What medication are you able to fit in a coin pocket? Everything I've ever taken is either bottled, in a large blister pack, or I need more than I could reasonably fit inside that tiny pocket

<comment><USER30> Not OP, but my medication's blister pack is perforated so I can break off one pill.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Carhartt makes pants with a "cell-phone" pocket that approximates the author's design. They're great -- they've become a stalwart in my rotation. Durability is mixed, but I'm in love with the pocket.

[https://www.carhartt.com/products/Rugged-Work-Khaki- Pant-100...](https://www.carhartt.com/products/Rugged-Work-Khaki-Pant-100095)

<comment><USER32> Exactly - and they are not the only ones.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> It is quite impressive, and slightly unreal, the variety of articles which get HN readers worked up.

But, truth be told, I enjoy these threads where I absolutely have no opinion and can look, sometimes in amusement but mostly in wonderment, at all sides of the debates.

Keep the passion strong, fellow readers.

</comment><comment><USER34> Those pockets look exactly like the pockets on kühl ([https://www.kuhl.com/kuhl/mens/pants/](https://www.kuhl.com/kuhl/mens/pants/)) pants and those pants come in all sorts of shapes and sizes not just cargo pants. I can attest to the fact that they are very practical for using for modern smartphones which have definetly become to large for front pockets.

<comment><USER35> Kuhl pants are some of my favorite pants I own, second only to my Prana pants which also have similar pockets.

I recently discovered that "hiking pants" are superior in almost every way to normal pants. They're usually more comfortable, deal with both high and low temperatures well, and nowadays have aesthetic styles that you can even wear in semi-formal work situations or to a nice dinner.

<comment><USER36> I bought some kuhl pants and the damn rivets that they put on the butt pockets were not only uncomfortable to sit on but have left unsightly gouges on all my dining chairs. I stopped using those pants once I realized where the gouges came from. All that in the the make of making a pant that looks rugged (I don't think the rivets really improved the pants structurally)

<comment><USER35> Interesting! The Kuhl pants I own don't have any rivets in them at all (in fact there's no metal or anything non-fabric except for the crotch zipper and button) so I have not experienced that. Will have to keep that in mind if I look at any of the other styles from them, though.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> I cannot even begin how much I love cargo trousers.

Ever since I have started earning, I buy as many cargos as I can buy. During college, I used to buy from factory sale. Always rummaging through all leading websites like Myntra, Amazon, Flipkart, et al for a good deal on cargos, almost on a daily basis. I buy one at least on a monthly basis. If I don't like it, I just return and get my money back. Today morning itself I bought an H&M cargos from their website's 50% sale.

I am quite parsimonious too, so buy only those which are offered at 50 - 70% discount and that too from big brands like USPA, H&M, et al.

Recently, I have taken a lot of fondness for H&M cargos. I am a person who needs at least 5.5" \- 6.1" iPhone (since I read a lot on it) and protect my iPhone with Otterbox Defender/ Griffin Survivor cases. Love the rugged look which the protective cases lend akin to top-secret military/ CIA satellite spy phone.

Ipso facto, I need cargos to carry my iPhone around.

I wear cargos to work daily as well. Have started researching the availability of formal cargo trousers. Very soon I would be moving to Canada and then to the USA, not sure how much acceptable is cargos in the workplace there.

Very soon, once I am well disposed of, I plan to design and stitch my own cargos, particularly formal ones. Would be drawing a lot of inspiration from USPA and H&M cargos, and would be researching on a tough, thick, stretchable fabric as well.

<comment><USER38> <insert your favorite dad-bod joke here /insert>

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> Pretty much all work pants (like Dickie's) have this, in addition to regular pockets.

<comment><USER40> They're good pockets, aren't they? But the ones I've owned seem to be sized and proportioned for a stanley knife or similar, not a phone or wallet.

I think the author is onto something, though I'm still not convinced these pockets give a nice line with much in them, which people generally care about. Dickies-type trousers tend to have a looser fit than the pictured trousers. The article photos with a phone held partly in the pocket aren't definitive.

<comment><AUTHOR> I suppose I didn't include photos with the phone fully in the pocket because you genuinely can't tell it's there.

There's a slight bulge from the welt of the pocket itself, which I'm still experimenting with, but with-phone is truly indistinguishable from without- phone when I'm standing up. Seated, there's a bulge at the side of the thigh if you really look for it.

<comment><USER40> I think a photo with the phone 'disappeared' would actually be a valuable addition to the article.

Good work by the way, and I hope you change the trouserial (?) world.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> This kind of pocket in the article appeals to me and were I in search of new pants I would certainly consider them.

I used to tell my wife that one of the primary considerations I make when looking for pants is that they have usable pockets: not too big, not too small. Mostly, this is doable for me. However, when we started shopping for her I would joke about the female fashion conspiracy to sell more accessories: they don't put in pockets in women's clothes so they can sell clutches, purses and other stuff. All that aside I think it's just figuring out what works for you and there's more than one way to handle personal storage needs.

</comment><comment><USER42> I have a similar pair from Duluth Trading[1], but what kills me is having the 'extra' pocket on only one side - I am sure that works perfectly for some, but for me, I very much want my phone on my left leg, it's like trying to unlearn a common key combo to have to look for it on the right.

1: [https://www.duluthtrading.com/mens-duluthflex-ballroom- slim-...](https://www.duluthtrading.com/mens-duluthflex-ballroom-slim-fit- khaki-pants-84310.html)

<comment><USER43> Check out their Engineer pants, they have that pocket on both sides. [1]

1\. [https://www.duluthtrading.com/mens-duluthflex-fire-hose- rela...](https://www.duluthtrading.com/mens-duluthflex-fire-hose-relaxed-fit- engineers-pants-84337BRN.html)

<comment><USER42> Hmm, interesting (though apparently being closed out). To me that looks like a narrower pocket (they have a photo showing a boxcutter being put in it, I doubt a smartphone could be crammed in). It's also not 'stealth' in terms of looks, since the pocket is appliqued on the outside of the leg, instead of hidden inside.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> I hadn't even really thought about it, but I've had pockets like this for a few years in pants from Patagonia and Black Diamond. They are indeed quite nice, exactly as the author describes. Best for a phone or slender wallet.

<comment><USER45> Same here. A pair of Macpac chinos I bought several years ago has this pocket and manages to not look too outdoorsy.

</comment></comment><comment><USER46> You've invented carpenter jeans, from the late 90s. If you want to buy a modern equivalent, the Prana Bronson jeans are exactly this. Bonus points, they come in shorts with the same Pixel XL sized pockets.

</comment><comment><USER47> When I'm not wearing comfy "tech pants" with extra internal pockets (Prana, REI, and so on) I've been wearing a lot of blazers. Extra pockets that, blessedly, aren't in my pants; dresses you up but not so much that people in my hickish 'burbs are put off, rather than dressing you down like a hoodie. Appropriate in almost all weather, if you've got the right kinds of cloth and weight. Love 'em.

</comment><comment><USER48> This is cool. Living in South Africa where the crime rate is ultra-high, the first thing that occurred to me was that this pocket design looks like it might be easier to pick-pocket while standing?

<comment><USER49> This would make pick-pocketers' life easy .

</comment></comment><comment><USER50> When I worked at my first job my mentor, the lead sysadmin, had a vest that his mother in law had made for him.

It had a ton of pockets of all different sizes, including one large one for his Newton. He always had enough pockets and could reach everything standing or sitting, and even while driving.

He was all about efficiency. He also had shoes that you could clip wheels to and turn them into roller blades, so he could snap those on and be at the datacenter in seconds, as long as no one was in the hall. :)

<comment><USER51> Heelys before they were cool ;)

</comment></comment><comment><USER52> Tangentially related, but relevant to some of the discussion here, and a good read:

Christopher Wylie: can fashion save the world?

[http://www.archive.is/hoUbT](http://www.archive.is/hoUbT)

[https://www.google.com/search?q=Christopher+Wylie+can+fashio...](https://www.google.com/search?q=Christopher+Wylie+can+fashion+save+the+world)

>'Wylie started work as a fashion trend forecaster, before switching roles to help the Liberal Democrats update their voter targeting. He saw the potential for harvesting Facebook data to help build psychological profiles of its users, which could in turn be used to target them with political ads. It was an idea that, in 2013, got him hired at the SCL Group — the parent company of Cambridge Analytica.

...Fashion and music, Wylie says, are among the best predictors of political orientation. And as such, they have the potential to help shift the political conversation. The following is an edited and abridged transcript of a conversation he had with Imran Amed, the BoF founder, and the FT to explain how fashion is in the perfect position to make the world a better place.'

</comment><comment><USER53> > Things, especially phone, need to go in and out of storage frequently, > almost unconsciously.

Maybe if Facebook or Google were designing pants to maximize user engagement, that'd be the case. But I'd say good UX means that taking your phone out should be a conscious decision, not a compulsive habit.

I like the idea though. The design looks nice and it's nice that someone's thinking about this, because we seem to be in a path towards tight pants and giant phones.

</comment><comment><USER54> This is a great overview and history of a sadly under appreciated problem. Well, actually a huge number of people suffer so _they_ appreciate the problem but it is poorly discussed.

My only objection is so something in the coda:

> Cargo pants aren't office-wear

I have been in the workforce for almost 40 years and have never worked somewhere where anyone would bat an eye at cargo pants.

</comment><comment><USER55> I agree with the baseline principles, but these pockets are at the edge of reach, which is far from convenient. I was sure they would end up with a waist level pocket, in a stretchy material, on top of the belt area.

<comment><USER56> Like a built in fanny pack?

<comment><USER55> Yeah! They're popular despite being universally derided. If someone can solve that style problem, I smell disruption.

There is a running "flip belt" that is also essentially the same thing. I haven't pulled the trigger, but it remains on my mind.

<comment><USER57> There are a quite a few of these running belts, none of which have solved the style problem to my taste unfortunately. I was researching these extensively for running last week, so without endorsing any specifically, here are some names I've heard a lot in running and hiking communities online in case it helps anyone looking at options:

* FlipBelt

* Naked Running Band

* SPIbelt

* Salomon Pulse

Also, a comparison review of a bunch of different models: [https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-running- belt...](https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-running-belts/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER58> I like the pocket design. No need to attack other people's choices though regarding cargo pants and shirts. I have some arcteryx and outlier pants that change up the pocket design just enough to be great.

</comment><comment><USER59> I really appreciate the design and thought that went into these pants. Goes to show what is possible when you can craft your own clothes and break free of the constraints of mass produced clothes.

Would have been cool to see the pants in a wool plaid or suiting material to emphasize their dressiness. I think people are getting cargo pants vibe because of the dark green twill.

<comment><AUTHOR> Absolutely in the works, but I'm not rich enough to make prototypes in superfine :)

<comment><USER59> Lol fair, the green fabric is much better than muslin at least =D

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER60> I am sorry, Sam. You just _reinvented cargo pants_. :P

<comment><USER61> And the problem with putting cargo in your cargo pants is that it swings when you walk. I have aome great Kuhl pants with similar pocket design, but it's awkward to walk with my phone there.

I could perhaps get used to it, especially if they fit a bit tighter as his seem to.

<comment><USER62> I have what over here in .uk tend to be referred to as "combat trousers", where the side pockets are reasonably spacious (I can fit a 7" tablet in one, though it then doesn't close and I can't get anything else in there) but not sufficiently so that they swing.

The only annoying thing is finding ones where everything including the hip pocket linings are made of the same heavy material, there are too many where that lining is normal smart trouser pocket material and tear through long before the rest of the trousers are showing noticeable wear.

<comment><USER63> Combats also tend to be closer fitting than US "Cargo pants" and can even look quite smart.

<comment><USER62> Right, with a decent pair of shoes combats and a button down shirt can approximate smart casual nicely.

Admittedly, the shoes I've settled on have a deep tread and steel toe caps, but neither of those really show if you aren't looking for them :D

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER64> > So I made a pair of trousers with no pockets at the waist, and a pair of > welt pockets at the side seams, right at that point.

Weirdly, the pictures pants are not slim jeans, thought that was the motivating problem. They look like not particularly slim khakis.

The pocket location is also quite similar to the low-profile cargo pocket location on some of the 5.11 Tactical pants that are designed for unobtrusive utility, addressing a somewhat similar problem space (useful pockets in relatively slim pants.) So, I'm not sure there is really an innovative solution here

But, like most middle-to-upper class fashion for centuries, the driving force between the popularity of skinny jeans is the ostentatious sacrifice of utility because the need for useful clothing is a marker of proletarian status. And the signalling is as much to the wearer as outside observers, so I'm not sure there's going to be a mass market demand for this.

</comment><comment><USER65> I applaud new thinking, but his proposed solution doesn't even meet his proposed criteria.

> _Aesthetically, we want a clean, graceful line from hip to ankle even while > holding things._

How are side bulges above the knee clean and graceful?

> _Where is there enough support to prevent items swinging around > uncomfortably?_

Because pants are looser around the knee than the waist, heavy items like a phone will constantly be swinging around uncomfortably down there -- same as they do in cargo pants.

As for the problem that started it all:

> _Putting a modern slab phone, a wallet, and keys into a pair of skinny jeans > will leave even the most fashionable figure looking looking like they're > wearing batman's utility belt as underwear._

A little bit, yes, but it's really just the least bad solution. Everything else is even worse. The market has settled on pockets as they are, because they actually truly work best.

<comment><AUTHOR> I solemnly swear I've experienced no swinging or banging. These pants are fitted at the thigh, and the pocket bag is inside the pant leg. I genuinely forget my phone is there, even on long walks.

And there's no bulge at the knee because trousers don't fit tightly at the knee -- otherwise, you would't be able to sit down. The fit at the top of the pocket prevents swing, and the ease at the bottom prevents bulge.

</comment></comment><comment><USER66> I like the idea but why only show photographs from one angle? This is a clothing item, give us more pictures so we can see it from all sides and judge its aesthetics.

</comment><comment><USER67> Kuhl has been doing this for years, but they chose a slightly higher place on the pantline than Bleckley did. Wonder why.

[https://www.kuhl.com/kuhl/mens/pants/rydr- jean/](https://www.kuhl.com/kuhl/mens/pants/rydr-jean/)

</comment><comment><USER68> I would buy these pants in a heartbeat. I'm fairly slender, like tight fitting pants, but hate the hip pockets. Cargo pants are baggy and everything rattles around in the large pockets. These are a really thoughtful middleground where you don't have to sacrifice style for utility.

</comment><comment><USER69> I just checked, I already own a pair like this. The pocket is horizontal, not slanted, and the pants are dark grey slacks. The pocket is only on the right side. It fits a smaller sized cell phone or a money clip. They were bought at a thrift store for maybe $10, so I've no idea on retail prices. I can't say I ever use that pocket, but more than a handful of times maybe. When I put my keys in there, they bang against my knee and make a weird bulge when I sit down and cross my legs. Fit is super important here. Either that or very lightweight and small objects. I'd rather just have deeper 'normal' side pockets.

What am I missing here?

</comment><comment><USER70> _Cargo pants are fashion-as-pretend-occupation_

Nobody tell him about tactical kilts†. He'll have an aneurysm.

†"Utilikilts" for those in Seattle.

</comment><comment><USER71> Very cool! I've gotten into pants-making over quarantine, I'll have to try this out. I had never considered pockets like this before (that I remember), but when I read the title my first idea was the article's implementation

<comment><USER72> Any suggestions on where somebody would start with pants making would be appreciated.

<comment><AUTHOR> If you don't already sew, I'd start by making a pillowcase or a dice bag, and then maybe a shirt or something. Take some time to learn about fabric materials and weaves. Pants are notoriously hard to fit, and if you're _also_ learning to use a sewing machine at the same time, it's gonna end in tears. Or even tears.

Youtube is chock-full of "learn to sew" videos, and you can buy paper patterns online, or in person (and get helpful advice) at your local fabric store.

The instructions that come with such patterns are bad, but still better than the average readme.

Then when you've got a feel for it, you can start drafting your own patterns. Much of the information that's available on that is for womenswear, but it doesn't take too much thought to translate things.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER73> Forgive me if I am wrong or ignorant, but wouldn't this design be very weak since all the weight of the items in the pocket falls onto one seam? Most pants anchor the pocket bag to the waist, which is much more durable.

</comment><comment><USER74> Personal anecdote:

I've lost around 20kg 2 years ago and were able to fit into a nice pair of slim jeans I used to wear in high school (around mid 00's). I've always carried my wallet in a left hand pocket and my phone+headphones in a right hand pocket. I couldn't fit any modern smartphone into the right hand pocket - the pocket was too short and your phone sticked out of the pocket all the time.

Kinda interesting, how the spread of modern computer devices changed a little detail in mass market fashion design.

</comment><comment> asdfk-12 Mountain Hardware, Mission Workshop, Lululemon, Outlier and Arcteryx all have some variety on this theme. I love the lightweight zip low-hip pocket as there's no jostling when running and your phone/wallet lays to the side if you're sitting.

It's true that there is space for innovation, but it's difficult to get below the $100-200 range for 'technical' (ie non-traditional cut) officewear.

</comment><comment><USER75> Actually - what you have done is recreated the pockets on the LuLuLemon workout gear for ladies.

If you have not seen them - women love them. And the pocket is slightly higher than yours.

(I love your design, FYI)

But go look at high-end womens workout clothes for pocket ideas too.

Also, while youre at it, the How I built this podcast with the founder of LuLuLemon is a really fascinating listen.

Personally - I am starting down the road to re-invent the backpack - and the umbrella...

<comment><USER76> It's there on some mens items too! My lined shorts have a nice stretchy pocket on the side of the thigh and it works great.

</comment></comment><comment><USER77> At various points, thinking about what I wear to events where well-worn skinny pants are advantageous, I've thought about hip-pouches as a solution to the pocket problem. I've generally found that this runs into an inevitable quandrary:

\- To carry my wallet+phone+keys, it will need to be reasonably sized \- To be _trusted_ with my wallet+phone+keys, it will need to be durable- built out of leather, or at least something like heavy canvas \- It can't be brightly colored or otherwise goofy, because aesthetics \- If you're wearing something on your hip that is dark-colored, made of heavy-duty material, and is roughly holster-sized, it will generally look like a gun holster to casual or distant inspection. That's not only a bad fashion statement, that's plausibly dangerous in some circumstances.

A pouch mounted right above the knee might solve this (I don't think anyone wears their pistol there?) if there's a decent way to wear a pouch that's not hung from the belt.

</comment><comment><USER78> I'd be curious to know how other people are handling this problem without employing cargo pants or custom clothing like this. I'm a guy who likes wearing skinny jeans and agree that stuffing a wallet, too many security keys, a knife, and a huge phone into the pockets kind of distorts the aesthetic. Do other guys / girls just carry their stuff in backpacks?

<comment><USER79> You never noticed that lots of people have purses? They are designed to solve exactly this problem :) Jeans designed for women tend to have smaller pockets and of course a legging or a skirt or dress doesn't have pockets at all. The big downside with purses is that they require your hands and you can forget them on a train, unlike your pockets.

I imagine that's why in urban areas the small corded Gucci/Louis Vuitton purses have become very popular with men and women alike, as they overcome some of the practical downsides, they're more like fanny packs in the sense that they leave your hands free and stay close to your body. The fanny pack itself has made something of a comeback too, although now you wear them slung over a shoulder instead of around your hip.

<comment><USER79> I should have read the article, it actually explains how pockets used to be separate garments, worn over or under clothing. It looks like this approach has come back in fashion. Programmers can appreciate the modularity!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER80> I wonder how pickpocket-safe they are because the lower placement would allow someone to reach my pockets without entering my field of view. I mean back pockets and the side pockets of cargo pants also aren't safe, but those trousers usually have the regular side pockets as a safe alternative for phone & money.

</comment><comment><USER81> I would add one item to the list of requirements: as I walk around and engage in other movements, objects should not flop around uncomfortably or jiggle around and make noise more than necessary.

That is a big advantage of locating pockets near the hips. First of all, as you walk your hips stay in a relatively fixed position, whereas your knees move back and forth a lot. So items nearer the knees are swung back and forth a lot more. Also, close to the waist where the cloth fits more tightly. Looser cloth closer to the knee tends to swing back and forth because there is more slack which allows it to do so.

Unfortunately, I don't know way to solve this and solve the problems that they have solved like accessibility when you're sitting down. Maybe you could stick pockets near the hip but on the side of the body instead of front or back. But those pockets would have to bend a whole lot.

<comment><USER82> I have the same complaint.

Perhaps a hidden, floating, spandex style layer that encapsulates the pocket and contents against the leg would solve that issue? This could be done while minimizing impact to the outer appearance.

<comment><USER76> Lululemon does this on their lined shorts.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER83> I wear the kind of slim-fit trousers that this article shows at the end. I like this improved pocket idea; it's functional _and_ elegant. (Although for non-black trousers, I wonder about the discreetness of it.)

My 'workaround' when I'm on the bicycle -- which is everyday -- for phone has been this (rather expensive, but robust) every day carry-on backpack with a hidden-but-accessible phone pocket:

[https://www.abordage- shop.com/12240-thickbox_default/brooks-...](https://www.abordage- shop.com/12240-thickbox_default/brooks-england-pickwick-cotton- canvas-12l-grey-gris.jpg)

Alas, OP, you say "no sales" ... perhaps I should start taking sewing classes, which reminds me, there's a hacker space (the only one in town) near me that also gives sewing workshops. Once the world fully reopens.

</comment><comment><USER84> Nobody would miss the pockets on top for a place to hang your hands? I depend on this to take some load off my spine sometimes. And I feel like pocketing away my hands is like a "mute button" on a certain amount of proprioception when I need to really do some thinking or relaxing.

Love everything else about this btw.

<comment><USER85> That's a interesting and real use case for upper pockets. I can attest doing so the same for both ergonomic and psychological reasons. Plus, there is one reason pockets in lower part of the torso is not very common, it is because the larger leg movements range make the weight in the lower pocket a painful experience in walking and running. The OP design therefore is not very practical IMHO.

</comment></comment><comment><USER86> Love this. Would be great to see these in stores. An unfortunate thing about the apparel industry (which I think contributes to how outdated clothing styles have been) is that it's all about the marketing budget and distribution channels. Things like getting your brand onto racks in stores and massive online ad campaigns become the key things to your business. That doesn't really encourage much innovation on product, it's securing the channel that really matters. A large brand's marketing budget can simply just eclipse yours to do better in sales. As you become bigger, all the attention simply shifts to supply chain, distribution, and increasing sales. All optimization problems, almost doesn't matter what you make.

Hope that changes though

</comment><comment><USER87> Regarding the limitations of the fashion industry...

Learning to sew clothes is like learning to cook after eating fast food all your life and not even knowing it was possible to combine ingredients in any way you wanted.

The possibilities are endless, empowering, overwhelming, and terrifying.

</comment><comment><USER88> These kinds of lower, often-slanted-up-and-back pockets are somewhat common in exercise wear. And they're great for the most part. Though your legs move a lot, they don't often move in a just-vertical up and down path, so as long as you have horizontal stability (very easy here as your leg curves) nothing really jostles.

They do have a nasty habit of losing their contents while driving (knees often higher than waist), or sitting cross-legged. Buttons / zippers / etc combat this of course (magnetic closures are my favorite), but they are also a bit more visible and sometimes uncomfortable :)

</comment><comment><USER89> You should checkout running tights, pants and shorts. Nearly all brands are implementing this kind of different pockets and zippers. Both women and men design differs for their anatomy as well.

</comment><comment><USER90> I have Levi's and Dockers have pants that have a very similar pocket.

Levi Denizen 231; [https://www.target.com/p/denizen-174-from-levi-s-174-men- s-a...](https://www.target.com/p/denizen-174-from-levi-s-174-men-s-athletic- fit-jeans-231-153-black-36x30/-/A-17103165)

Dockers comfort cargo; [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002Q8HM96](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002Q8HM96)

</comment><comment><USER91> I am only here to say: Put pockets on all women clothes!! Thank you.

<comment><USER92> And I'm here to say that phone companies should make smaller phones.

<comment><USER93> > And I'm here to say that phone companies should make smaller phones.

If people bought small phones, companies would make them.

<comment><USER92> No, because Apple wants to sell us something else than a phone. They want to sell us a _vending machine for entertainment_. Probably it's the same for the other phone companies.

<comment><USER94> Actual phones are going out of fashion quite quickly. People want communication devices with several usage options, that once in a full moon work as phones too.

And yes, people want entertainment too. Apple is just submitting to their customers desires.

<comment><USER91> It feels to me that customers submit to Apple's desires...

<comment><USER94> Maybe so, but non-Apple phones are designed against those same goals, and their market is pretty competitive.

If those came from Apple instead of consumers, they wouldn't be universal.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER95> TFA notes that people take their phones out of pockets. I believe the real reason for that is phones are now so large that they are uncomfortable to have in any pocket while sitting.

Also, idk - if your pants are so tight that you can't make use of the pockets you are definitely risking a Tom Brady moment [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAMUArVQtks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAMUArVQtks)

</comment><comment><USER96> Hiking pants have these. I have a couple and it's great. They are usually zippered also. I think you don't see this on dress pants because "fashion".

<comment><USER97> I have shorts with these pockets. Seeing this thread is lol max. I like em.

[https://imgur.com/gallery/01bhkbp](https://imgur.com/gallery/01bhkbp)

</comment></comment><comment><USER98> I've got a pair of pants from REI that have a pocket down there, and I instinctively put my phone there all the time, because of how accessible it is when sitting. It's great!

</comment><comment><USER99> This pocket appears to be identical to the ones in my wife's yoga pants. I thought it was a good idea when I saw it, but it's certainly not original.

</comment><comment><USER100> Agreed to lack of innovation and creativeness in this world of mass production. Even women receive a great level of innovation with changes in sizes and some fundamental changes but for men, it's the same 3 pieces of clothes which are important (because that's what is available) - jeans, shirts, tees. Pockets is a good way to start but this definitely needs to expanded to the fundamental core.

</comment><comment><USER101> My favorite pants have a similar feature: [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZHFNG5J/](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZHFNG5J/)

I got them for taking my son on hikes, but liked them so much I got more and started wearing them to work too. I don't even use the standard pockets anymore, just the thigh pockets for the reasons described in the article.

</comment><comment><USER29> Lots of yoga pants actually have this pocket! It's good for not having a huge lump on your hips but still being able to hold things like your phone

</comment><comment><USER102> Chest is a good place for pockets. Like the breast pocket on a tshirt. Or the multipocket on overalls.

Back pocket is fantastic as long as you don't sit down. And to take that to the next level, a finish carpenter's toolbelt. A back pocket big enough to fit a cantaloupe. With partitions. And you can slide the whole thing around to various places on your butt and hips as the situation requires.

</comment><comment><USER103> Propper's STL pant series take a similar tact for their cargo pockets. It's definitely a massive improvement in terms of business-casual looking workwear that doesn't sacrifice utility.

I hope pockets like these do take off. I know too many women who've lamented the fact that they have few options for practical pants that don't also trade out the style of tighter-fitting women's wear.

</comment><comment><USER104> Alternatively, more pockets on tops. Fall/winter has much more carrying flexibly: anorak with stomach pocket, winter jackets with chest pockets.

Also I find it ironic women's work out tights have phone side pockets already figured out but men's are still limited to a key pouch on the back. Also very functional mesh panels but I suppose that's to close to mesh shirts for most dudes.

</comment><comment><USER105> It's funny, I actually had a pair of something similar in the '90s.

I had a pair of charcoal grey men's pants of some unknown heavier fabric that were cut slim instead of baggy like cargo pants or work pants, and had a pair of discrete flap pockets instead of bulky cargo pockets on them. I adored those pants.

I'd love a pair of slim-cut black jeans with that kind of pocket on them.

</comment><comment><USER106> Actually, cargo pants are quite trendy right now as techwear.

Whether or not they stay in style, at least they'll always be functional.

<comment><USER107> I'm pretty curious what portion of HN's audience is aware of techwear and the work of Errolson Hugh at Acronym or Taka Kasuga at Arc'teryx Veilance. I've noticed that SWE's make up a substantial portion of the techwear community, in part due to the pricing and the overlap with sci-fi/utilitarian tastes.

</comment></comment><comment><USER108> Me, Inwould avoid the whole problem and remove the pocket from the clothing - I have a lycra-like arm and that holds a phone for jogging and it is useful enough that if I could just slap it onto any piece of clothing and it would stay then I have a pocket I can put onto any clothing i want at any location

</comment><comment><USER109> The only time I've ever lost my wallet was out of cargo pants because the pockets were too big and loose.

I'd definitely try a pair of these trousers as I hate sitting on my phone, but I'd still want regular front pockets too for keys.

</comment><comment><USER110> Remind me a bit of those pants for cycling: [https://www.rapha.cc/it/en/shop/mens-cargo-bib- shorts/produc...](https://www.rapha.cc/it/en/shop/mens-cargo-bib- shorts/product/BRC01XX)

</comment><comment><USER111> I'm not even going to read the comments. These pockets meet my needs. Where can I buy the pants?

</comment><comment><USER112> My Dickies work jeans have a pocket like the one described in the article, but at the back of the right leg, not the side. I'm pretty sure this is because if you're wearing a tool belt or safety harness none of the traditional pockets are accessible.

</comment><comment><USER113> This is not exactly revolutionary. I have multiple pairs of bike shorts with slim elastic pockets in that spot. (Actually, a few inches higher, which is easier to reach without bending, and doesn't get in the way any more than the proposed location.)

</comment><comment><USER114> I have a pair of shorts that are just about to wear out that have a pocket like these, and I love them! Sadly, Patagonia stopped making them years back, and I can't find any back stock with them.

These trousers look great. I wonder if he'll make me some...

</comment><comment><USER115> These pants look awesome. If there was a Kickstarter for these I'd place an order for a few. I like cargo pants because of the side pockets but dislike the bagginess and the other useless little pocket, so these are near perfect.

</comment><comment><USER116> There are exercise pants for women that have a transparent tight netting/mesh on the legs that run the entire length, and are tight against the skin. I think they are much better for objects that are not rigid.

</comment><comment><USER117> So funny that I thought precisely about this solution for a long time; but never even considered trying to "build" it myself. Kudos to Sam for doing it. Bravo.

</comment><comment><USER118> [https://tripleaughtdesign.com/shop/agent-xc- chino/](https://tripleaughtdesign.com/shop/agent-xc-chino/)

For office appropriate. I use the jeans.

</comment><comment><USER119> I like these. They are cool. They are definitely not cargo pants. Neat solution with the angled pocket.

Sadly tho the world has ended and no one will ever need office slacks again.

</comment><comment><USER120> This was such a promising article until it became apparent that, despite the intimation of early paragraphs, the author had no real answer for the pocketlessness women are subjected to...

</comment><comment><USER121> I like them. So you've eliminated side and butt pockets? I can see keeping the butt pockets as a display platform for design touches, branding etc but inseam side pockets can be discarded.

</comment><comment><USER122> SkirtCraft make great skirts for men and women with four deep pockets.

</comment><comment><USER123> These are present on my carpenter pants; I find them invaluable for holding my phone, some rags (I have kids) and similar need-to-have-near-always things.

</comment><comment><USER124> There's a subculture around Everyday Carry (EDC) which has a whole niche market for products like this. This would be an excellent product for that market.

</comment><comment><USER125> I love this idea. I generally only carry a wallet and a phone, one in each front pocket.

Love the idea of having side pockets for them with the slanted/deep pocket approach.

</comment><comment><USER126> Not everyone can wear jeans + tshirt to the office. Borrowing athletic- and work-wear inspired designs for office/formal cloths has huge potential.

</comment><comment><USER93> > Women used to have pockets. That "used to" has to count back 150 or even 200 > years, and those pockets were often a separate garment, either worn > underneath and accessed through a slit in the dress, or worn around the hips > overtop, rather than built into the dress directly — but regardless, "it has > pockets!" as a joyous surprise is a modern invention.

This part seems particularly unconvincing - if you take this at face value, all women's clothes "have pockets" because women typically carry a purse. I don't know many people who would agree with that.

</comment><comment><USER127> I enjoyed his art greatly:

[https://sambleckley.com/art/](https://sambleckley.com/art/)

</comment><comment><USER128> I once had a levi's that had a chained pocket in lower back thigh. Awesome place to store phone. I miss the jeans though

</comment><comment><USER38> Painter/workman jeans with a second set of pockets at the knees came into fashion when cellphones shrunk to pocket size.

</comment><comment><USER129> what I hate are those tiny change nooks sewn into the right trouser pocket so it's like a pocket within a pocket.

In theory they're fine except I always put my keys into my right pocket because I'm right handed. My keys will fall into these mini pockets and get stuck.

These mini pockets should really be on the left side.

<comment><USER130> The tiny pockets are fine for holding a single key. Where they fail is the modern keychain, with a car key and a door key and a mailbox key and key to enter the gated community and a key for the office and a security key for a computer. Like, key chains the size of a tennis ball really could be anchored off of one's belt or waist on a retracting clip.

</comment></comment><comment><USER131> This approach is popular in women's leggings; look for N-shaped bar/diagonal patterns on the leg stitching.

</comment><comment><USER132> Why not have the phone in a pocket higher on the torso? Like a gun holster.

</comment><comment><USER133> Didn't 5.11 have something like this? Chinos that fit AR mags.

</comment><comment><USER75> What sort of pattern did you start with?

Did you DL one, buy one or make your own?

<comment><AUTHOR> I drafted from scratch; not shown here (for fear of distracting from the pockets) are the high waist, button fly, and swallowtail back that make them deeply unfashionable :)

But you could easily add this to almost any pants pattern, so long as the inseam isn't flat-felled.

<comment><USER75> Can you please share pics / pattern?

<comment><AUTHOR> It's a=just a standard welt pocket on an angle. Find a welt pocket tutorial you like and follow it, but on the outseam :)

The only trick is that the inseam has to be open when you add the pocket to the outseam.

I haven't made a paper pattern of it, yet, because I've cut it differently each time. When I settle on a design I will make myself a pattern -- but it'll be pretty specific to me.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER134> These kind of pockets exist already particularly in workwear

</comment><comment><USER135> Jacket pockets solve lots of these problems. Very nice imho.

</comment><comment><USER136> When is the Kickstarter happening? I'd order a pair.

</comment><comment><USER92> Cargo pants are even better if you complement them with a tool-belt.

/s

</comment><comment><USER137> There are several designers already doing exactly that.

</comment><comment><USER138> These look very much like a pair of hiking pants I have.

<comment><USER139> Yeah it reminds me of the climbing pants I use for every day wear[0]. I buy them specifically because they have pockets with zippered side access for when sitting.

This looks clean but I'd worry about stuff sliding out of the pocket, as I've had happen with medium-length waist pockets frequently over the years.

[0] [https://www.prana.com/p/stretch-zion-convertible- pant/M4SC99...](https://www.prana.com/p/stretch-zion-convertible- pant/M4SC99116.html)

<comment><USER140> I was just going to say, just the the pocket on my Prana's that I wear every day. My other favorite pocket is my ski jacket breast pocket, just to the left of the main zipper. So easy to access.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER141> These are kinda just skinny cargo pants, no?

</comment><comment><USER142> Damn it (wo)man, I so agree, when I was 12-15 we wore "workers", comfy, lots of big pockets. Wish then would become cool again.

</comment><comment><USER143> So where to order? Sign me up please.

</comment><comment><USER144> Just take a handbag.

</comment><comment><USER145> TL;DR: [https://sambleckley.com/assets/images/pants1.jpg](https://sambleckley.com/assets/images/pants1.jpg)

<comment><USER125> Wrong. TL;DR: [https://sambleckley.com/assets/images/pants2.jpg](https://sambleckley.com/assets/images/pants2.jpg)

</comment></comment><comment><USER146> With no pockets on the butt it makes the pants look weird. The plain area is just too empty. Might I suggest adding the words "sexy" or "pink"

<comment><AUTHOR> You're right, I think a yoke might work better than darts to break up that space.

</comment></comment><comment> noman-land Guys, I'm sorry to tell you this, but you look like a dork in cargo pants, and everyone knows it but you.

<comment><USER147> What utility does your attempt at shanking people for their manner of dress serve? Aren't you showing that you're a less useful part of society by doing that?

</comment></comment><comment><USER148> The problem statement discusses the undesirable trade-offs of tight/skinny jeans, yet the model solution isn't even remotely representative of the framework that it suggestively seeks to improve.

I can't help but see this pocket as a liability; a cost-saving excuse to omit a proper securing mechanism of sorts shrouded by a pitch of being innovative. In a perfectly postured world with 2 operational modes--standing and sitting-- this _might_ be good enough, but I'd hardly be willing to risk yet another $600+ cellphone to find out when I'm crouching, squatting, gargoyling, kicking legs up, riding a bike, in a sports car bucket seat, etc.

Furthermore, if it's easy for you to slip your phone in and out of, then it'll also be easy for thieves to do so as well.</comment>


Ask HN: Hey VCs, do you mind if ppl intro themselves when you're out at a bar? - <AUTHOR>

Went to a talk by a VC who is very active in my area. Didn't get a chance to introduce myself after the talk (there were < 25 ppl at the talk but the VC had to run). A few hours later, was out for drinks with a friend and saw he was at the same bar but talking with someone else.<p>Discussion ensued with my buddies around whether or not I should intro myself considering I didn't have a chance earlier in the day, but I ultimately decided against it. What say you: Should I have? I ask for the next time I'm in this situation. <comment><USER2> this was a really good question @wimpy

i turned my answer into a blog post

[http://www.avc.com/a_vc/2011/12/should-you-introduce- yoursel...](http://www.avc.com/a_vc/2011/12/should-you-introduce-yourself-to- me-at-a-bar.html)

<comment><AUTHOR> Wow thanks for the clarification, Fred. Awesome to get some perspective from someone who deals with this day in and day out!

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Curious tangent:

What's better, to introduce yourself to a VC or to be introduced to a VC by a gushing shared acquaintance?

(If being introduced, then this leads to the strategy of introducing yourself to those who mingle with the VCs, rather than directly to the VCs themselves...)

<comment><USER4> Shared acquaintance, no question.

<comment><USER5> Well actually I disagree, but I know exactly where your coming from.

The thing is that we imagine that VCs get approached all the time by people with alot more balls than us. We also imagine that they hate a direct approach from a stranger and would much prefer you to be introduced through their network. We all know that's what networks are for right?

The point is _we imagine_ this. We project how we might feel in their shoes, but the real truth is _we can never know for sure_ how they will react. It's their job after all to find the talent!

I remember having the exact same conversation with musicians years ago about approaching the A&R guy. When I did get the balls to do it, you know what, he didn't sign me, BUT he didn't ignore me either, and we had a great conversation and I invited him to a few gigs.

How much time would I have wasted looking for an intermediary, when all he wanted was to "discover" the next big thing. Isn't that what VCs want too?

<comment><USER4> Ask any VC you know how many un-referred startups they've ever funded in their entire lifetime.

(or just read the quora question on it [http://www.quora.com/Venture-Capital- Firms/Have-any-top-tier...](http://www.quora.com/Venture-Capital-Firms/Have- any-top-tier-VCs-made-an-investment-based-on-an-unsolicited-pitch-emailed-in) )

VCs get pitched all the time they can't afford to give unsolicited pitches more than a tiny fraction of their time for evaluation as 90% of them will be terrible. But if a pitch comes with a recommendation from someone they trust, it's much less likely to be a bad pitch so they can spend a bit more time looking at it.

Getting an introduction to a VC isn't hard, it's trivial to meet startup founders at events, etc. and most would be willing to introduce you to their VC if they thought you had a good idea.

If you're not capable of getting a warm introduction fairly easily, then that's a huge negative signal for the VC about your capabilities.

<comment><USER5> I know what the general advice is, but _not doing_ what people tell you to do is pretty much what we encourage people to do.

I see no difference between encouraging people to bend and break the rules to create an innovative start-up, and bending and breaking the rules to attract a VC. It's all part of the same mentality.

But if that isn't a good enough argument, then try the maths: the probability of success is 50-50 on every try.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Comprehensive guide to IE compatibility? - <AUTHOR>

I suspect I'm not alone in this:
I learned front-end web design after the box-model and modern CSS appeared. Being relatively new, I haven't suffered through all of the IE6 (and even 7/8) bugs. Though I'm proficient at CSS, and intimate with a lot of its quirks, I'm anxious to knock out my one achilles heel: confident IE support for relatively complex layouts.
Does anyone have any very readable, comprehensive guide to IE support for those fairly advanced in CSS?
Thanks! <comment><USER2> Here is a page that takes care of the "comprehensive" piece:

<http://www.quirksmode.org/compatibility.html>

It's readable enough, but a little dense on information. :)</comment>


Click-o-tron – Clickbait site using deep learning - <AUTHOR> http://clickotron.com/ <comment><USER2> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10380661](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10380661)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Technical write-up on how this was done: [http://larseidnes.com/2015/10/13/auto-generating- clickbait-w...](http://larseidnes.com/2015/10/13/auto-generating-clickbait- with-recurrent-neural-networks/)

Source code: [https://github.com/larspars/word- rnn](https://github.com/larspars/word-rnn)</comment>