The "Me, Too" Startup Syndrome - <AUTHOR> http://funtrepreneur.tumblr.com/post/22201264260/the-me-too-startup-syndrome <comment><USER5> There's a subtle, rather meta feeling I can't shake when I read "cautionary" blog posts like these. It's the feeling that maybe the author isn't writing it for anyone else's benefit as much as their own. Like the author writes to reinforce that, unlike said "friend" who's making all these cautionary mistakes, they themselves are in it for all the right reasons.

Every time the author makes a, "he" statement, you can _just_ perceive a subtle, "but not me." The faintest signal for both the reader, and for himself. Here's what I read:

\- "I let a long sigh." (Because _I_ know better).

\- "My friend wasn't someone I'd call 'entrepreneurial'" (...but I am).

\- "He wasn't doing it because he enjoyed the process of starting and growing a company." (But I am).

\- "But building a company requires a lot more than writing code." (All things I'm far more capable of).

\- "He's lived in Silicon Valley long enough, and that's what people around him are doing." (Me? I'm an island).

Who is the author to make this judgement? Why do you need to fit some mold in order to participate in the exclusive club, without criticism from the author? And who gets to determine what that mold is?

<comment><USER6> Anyone who has been through an incubator has probably heard this line:

"Most of your companies will fail. And now that I've said that, you're all feeling sorry for everyone else in the room."

Honestly, I encourage my friends to take risks and try new things, even if I have inner doubts about their ability to pull it off. I do so because I think that trying something really, really hard improves you skill set -- even if you end up failing.

If a friend said, "I'm going to try and get into the Olympics!" would you tell them all the ways they're likely to fail? Or would you encourage them to try and achieve a dream? The key is not understating the risks; be both encouraging and honest.

<comment><USER7> I have never heard the line "most of your companies will fail" from anyone I know of in Y Combinator. Mostly because "fail" isn't really well defined -- even a mediocre startup is usually more interesting than a boring job. Even founding the next Instagram might be a failure for someone who really cares about medicine or space.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I don't know if the author was trying to express this particular sentiment, but I am concerned by a general theme that I have noticed in articles I have been reading on HN lately.

1\. We are in a bubble, because all these 'useless' startups are getting funding when they should not be (debatable on many levels).

2\. Too many startups are focusing on areas that are over like 'Social'.

3\. Some people just aren't good enough or cut out for this, so they should avoid it, and let the ones with a specific set of 'opinions' create startups.

My advise to anyone also sensing this theme and turning away from creating a startup is this:

Do it for whatever reason you want!

If you want to make a great product, and love hacking, awesome! Go for it!

If you want to get rich and jump in, awesome! Go for it!

There are no guarantees in life about whether anyone will succeed, but there is also not infinite time to wonder what might have been. Even if 90% of these ventures fail, there will still be more great products and opportunities for everyone. Because that crazy 10% wasn't deterred by someone else telling them what should and shouldn't be. Cautionary tales help to educate, but don't be discouraged by anyone if you really want to do it.

<comment><USER9> > Too many startups are focusing on areas that are over like 'Social'.

See, I like to think of a startup as any other brick and mortar business. If it manages to leap into a world-wide success, nothing wrong with that - <USER3> don't expect it. Have a game plan that focuses on the reality around you. A startup isn't always a Facebook or Instagram (although they were too, at a point). It's okay to build an online business and _just_ make $60-120 k/year - you know, like any other B&M business owner. To me a "startup" is simply described as a scaleable model that employs technology intelligently with modern-day principals of delegation, pivoting & management.

I always get confused about _exit strategy_. To some it means _here's what happens when/if I bail..._. To others it seems to mean _this is where I'll be a billionaire and..._. Both are bunk to someone who is passionately building a product or service that they love.

<comment><USER10> >See, I like to think of a startup as any other brick and mortar business. If it manages to leap into a world-wide success, nothing wrong with that - <USER3> don't expect it. Have a game plan that focuses on the reality around you. A startup isn't always a Facebook or Instagram (although they were too, at a point). It's okay to build an online business and just make $60-120 k/year - you know, like any other B&M business owner. To me a "startup" is simply described as a scaleable model that employs technology intelligently with modern-day principals of delegation, pivoting & management.

The problem is that a lot of startups don't seem to have any plan in place to actually get to the point where they're actually making money on their own. The B&M store comparison is pretty apt here. You don't start a corner convenience store in the hopes that 7-Eleven will come up and buy you. You start the store because there isn't a store there, in the hope that enough people will come and buy stuff that you can make a profit.

That's where a lot of the worry is, I think. Especially because we're seeing a huge amount of VC funding going towards startups that are almost purely pinned on getting snapped up by a bigger company. Instagram is a great example of this. They have a product that has the majority of the current midshare in it's space, has millions of users, is a very cool application on both a technical usability level... and approximately $0 in incoming revenue. And no plan to make money besides "Maybe get advertisers on the platform at some point in the future"([http://behindcompanies.com/2012/04/instagrams-business- model...](http://behindcompanies.com/2012/04/instagrams-business-model/) )[1]. From an investment perspective, it was a very bad investment... until they sold out to Facebook, at which point it was a GREAT one.

I think that's the concern that TFA has. A lot of startups, by and large, have turned into R&D for large corporations rather than traditional entrepreneurial businesses. The concern isn't that people are creating a product that's sold. They're creating a product without any concern about how to make money with it, and are hoping that someone with deep pockets will snap them up. There's a time and place for both, but the second shouldn't be getting nearly as much money as the first.

[1]To be fair, I think that with 30 million users, Instagram would have a viable business model based on advertising, and certainly could have made a profit. The problem, though, is that I don't think that model would return anywhere near the amount that the $500MM valuation indicated. Certainly, it would be in the low tens of millions of dollars, but not in the hundreds.

<comment><USER11> I like the view point. Another way of looking at this is what Startups were always good at. They were always good at "Disruptive Innovation". The regular "Continuos Innovations" is better done by big companies. Most startups today dont start with the idea of creating a business but to disruptively solve a problem. If the goal of the business is to cause Disruptive Innovation then it can be done better without looking at the money on day to day basis. Big Companies being able to acquire these Innovative companies works well for all parties involved.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Regardless of the strengths or weaknesses of this article, the scansion of his/her opening poetry bothers me.

In the spirit of hacking, I've tried to improve it (and please help me if I've done this wrong or poorly!):

        Twas the Y-Comb deadline eve, when all through the valley
        All the hackers were stirring (it's a big night for Cali!).

        Scores of applications were POST'ed with care
        In hopes they'd be found by Paul Graham to be fair.

        And many a partner slumbered softly in bed,
        while visions of A-rounds flooded their SO's heads.

        Quite out of the blue my iPhone did ring:
        an old friend to a bar for a convo I'd bring!

</comment><comment><USER13> "- But why do you want to get into YC?

\- Are you kidding? It's an awesome opportunity: you get to mingle with smart people, work on something exciting, get funding and mentorship, investors will chase you to give you money, and you're much more likely get acquired in the future.

\- That's not what I meant. I know YC is a great place. But why do YOU want to get in?"

"why do YOU want to get in?" The question _was_ answered.

<comment><USER14> Definitely. Mingling with smart people, working on something exciting, and getting mentorship are often _ends in themselves_ and don't need any further justification.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Some advice I try to live by is to ignore others and just do "you".

So, don't worry about whether or not your friend is starting a business for the right reasons. He'll figure it out.

Your productivity will increase when you focus on your own goals instead of others.

</comment><comment><USER16> Everytime I read a post like this, all I hear is "please don't compete with me."

</comment><comment><USER17> Aside from all of the other possibly insulting remarks from the post, this particular one caught my eye:

"And a few girlfriends slept alone in their beds While visions of exits danced in their boyfriends' heads"

I'm male, but let me tell you that the above statement infuriates me as it perpetuates the stereotype that women are not entrepreneurs. I'm sure I'm not the only one who believes that my better half would be wildly more successful than I would be if she had an inkling to do a startup.

To reiterate, this form of sexism needs to stop.

<comment><USER18> > I'm male, but let me tell you that the above statement infuriates me as it > perpetuates the stereotype that women are not entrepreneurs. I'm sure I'm > not the only one who believes that my better half would be wildly more > successful than I would be if she had an inkling to do a startup.

Can you spot the irony in this statement?

<comment><USER17> There is no irony because as I stated, "I'm sure I'm not the only one." This sentence conveys that in "some" not "all" cases women make better entrepreneurs.

Irony would only exist if I made a sweeping comment about all women being better as entrepreneurs, which I assure you, I did not make.

<comment><USER18> Well I don't want to play professor here, but I don't think you understand the meaning of irony. The fact that you find fault with the implication that women aren't just as likely as men to pursue startups but then say that your girlfriend would do much better than yourself at them if "only she had the inkling to do one" is ironic.

You see, you resent the implication that women don't do startups. Your girlfriend doesn't do startups and doesn't have the inclination to do them. You are using her as an example (albeit a poor one) of why that implication is false.

<comment><USER17> The amount of assumptions you stuffed into the reply is simply mind boggling.

I'll start by dispelling a simple one:

Better half doesn't necessarily equate to girlfriend.

Furthermore, the condescending tone and verbiage used in the reply is nothing more than inflammatory. I would disservice myself to continue responding past this point.

<comment><USER19> >Better half doesn't necessarily equate to girlfriend.

The original post was talking about girlfriends, so contextually it sounded like you meant girlfriend by "better half". You're a terrible spokesman for ending sexism as you seem to replace one form of ignorance for another combined with hypersensitivity (having said that, yes the original "joke" was a lame one).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Minor observation - the last line about YCombinator being "the best place to start a company" seemed a little weird. As a percentage, how many of the recent "startup success stories" have been started at YCombinator and how many haven't?

</comment><comment><USER21> I find nothing wrong with the "Me, Too" Startup Syndrome. I know plenty of friends who went to medical school because their parents were doctors, or it's the "Asian thing" to do, and they turned out to be decent doctors. Same for lawyers, accountants and gardners; a lot of "me too" happening outside of the startup world. Unlike 30 years ago, many more people want to go into technology because it's hip to be in a startup - hell, thanks to popular cinema (The Social Network) and mainstream technology (iOS/Android) geekie hobbies are now cool. People got mocked for playing with their Timex Sinclair in the early '80s, whereas today I have to sign up early in order to reserve my son a spot in the mobile game development bootcamp. Times are a changing, and the OP sounds like the indie college guy who's resentful that his secret band is now being followed by everybody.

Other "me too" activities: marriage, children, golf, smoking, religion, tantric sex... sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. All a part of life.

</comment><comment> jack-r-abbit I've been thinking the same things lately. Referring to what ever coding project happens to be filling your spare time as your "start up" seems to be what all the cool kids are doing these days.

</comment><comment><USER22> Even if a startup fails helpfully everyone involved learned some lessons. I know people who have been founders or have worked in startups that didn't succeed, in-spite of that have gone on to do a variety of interesting things.

Companies fail for all sorts of reasons that are often well beyond their control. Being part of such a team is hardly the kiss of death provided you can explain what you did and what you learned.

You lose 100% of the games you never play. Go into it with your eyes open that more than likely you won't be the next instagram, but you will develop many skills can be broadly applied outside of starting a company. With the right attitude it doesn't matter if you strike it rich, because frequently good ideas(supersonic air travel, concord ) lose and a lot of seemingly bad ideas have made people wealthy(pet rocks).

</comment><comment><USER23> Awesomepreneur in me says you should take that inner voice that makes you doubt because of public opinion out back and shoot it. Do what you need, to get the job done in whatever plan and stay focused. Most will fail, some will last but wounded, few will stick around and all of them will blog about it. Just focus on getting the job done, even if it's a local-centric social network for pets with sepia instagram avatars. Well, maybe I went too far, but keep focused on your own work, not others.

</comment><comment><USER24> San Francisco in a nutshell.

</comment><comment><USER25> Another issue I see is people are not afraid at all due to easy availability of capital. Although, entrepreneur can be considered as fearless (at least when it comes to failure). But he/she always lives in fear. Be it competitors, running out of money, employees quitting, not able to hire, etc. At least, I live in fear all the time.

</comment><comment><USER26> I definitely agree, it is a lot easier to fill out an application than to rally around an idea and begin creating a great product. I think it's definitely worth doing some self examination before deciding you are ready to do a startup and understanding the reality of your situation.

</comment><comment><USER27> I mostly agree with you; however, you do realize that your blog is called "Funtrepreneur," right?

<comment><USER28> If _funtrepreneurship_ doesn't work out, there's always the more time-tested consulting version, the _funsultant_. Or, when all other options fail, the default, _funemployment_...

(Yes, these are all actual words people use, though for different things. Punning on "fun" seems irresistible. With apologies for the self-link, more on the 2nd one: <http://www.kmjn.org/notes/funsultants_and_gamification.html>)

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> Aaaand cue "Sexist!" outcries...

<comment><USER29> Really??

Doesn't "...And a few girlfriends slept alone in their beds, While visions of exits danced in their boyfriends' heads..." operate on the same presumption that has resulted in a number of others getting their asses handed to them recently?

<comment> jack-r-abbit Can't we just be glad that we're no longer looked at as "dorky programmers that can't even get a mate" and just move on? Why kick the hornet's nest?

<comment><USER30> Because your 'we' in this case assumes your reader is male. Again.

<comment> jack-r-abbit Well... I said "mate" for a reason. I didn't assume anything. But not everything can be written with those generic s/he or his/her notation. Sometimes... it just looks stupid. Sometimes a gender must be picked... and it will always be wrong to someone. Why does it have to be an issue all the time? Why do we have to assume that every time a person writes anything and they decide that a character is a male then the writer is sexist?

Besides... the poem said "a _few_ girlfriends...". I am quite sure that this is a very accurate statement. Of the "Thousands of applications" that were submitted I imagine that enough of them were from men that a few of them had girlfriends that slept alone that night. Why does it have to be taken to the extreme and interpreted as "all these women sleeping away as all the men (and only the men) go off to start companies and get rich"?

<comment><USER29> I'm going to assume by your naive indifference you are not female, and quite likely are white, because you exhibit the ignorance of someone who's never suffered any type of indignity worse than the label of "dorky programmer".

I don't suggest you complain to your non-white, non-male friends about that...

#IngrainedPrejudice #DeathByAThousandCuts <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel%27s_nose>

<comment> jack-r-abbit If the OP had written the poem as "a few boyfriends slept alone..." nobody would have said a thing. If one is acceptable and the other is not... where lies the sexism now?

And not that it really matters since we aren't supposed to be looking at race/gender but yes... white & male. And just to round out the trifecta... from (what probably would have been considered at that time) a working/middle class family to boot. So maybe the worst indignity I've suffered was that when it came time to go to college there wasn't anybody looking to help me. Thankfully my grades were good enough because they don't give many grants and scholarships to middle class white males. But I'm getting over that the best I can. I don't complain about it _every_ chance I get anymore.

But let's not get trapped by this silly notion that only white people are racist and only males are sexist. I've been labeled all sorts of things by all sorts of people. For instance... someone who doesn't even know me recently called me an indifferent, ignorant white man. I'm still standing.

<comment><USER31> There's an element of sexism in the poem. It's not hateful but it's pretty overt.

<comment> jack-r-abbit Would it be possible for you to elaborate on that a bit? Specifically, what part is an element of sexism and why?

<comment><USER32> The implicit assumption that it's the boyfriends that would be doing the startup and the girlfriends that would be sleeping alone in bed - <USER4> implication that _obviously_ it would only be that way around.

<comment> jack-r-abbit It said "a _few_ girlfriends" for carp sake. A few. Not all. A. FEW. The poem doesn't even begin to imply that it would only be that way around. The only thing _obvious_ here is that some people are hell bent on finding injustice hiding behind every word. I feel sorry for those people. :(</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Race and Technology: Are There Renowned Internet Startups With Black Founders? - <AUTHOR> http://oonwoye.com/blog/2010/04/05/black-founders/ <comment><USER2> The root of this problem is simply that there are a lack of blacks with technical backgrounds (of the high-level blacks listed in your post none of them had cs, engineering, or math degrees). If more blacks opt for technical training, the number of blacks in the startup community will grow. For those who do have an appropriate background, funding probably proves to be another barrier. All too many times, I hear of founders raising initial funding of tens of thousands of dollars from "friends and family." For obvious reasons, this is not an option for the majority of black founders.

<comment><USER2> btw ... Russell Simmons is a co-founder of Yelp

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Wow, I guess race is too complicated, even for Hackers. I read your post yesterday and I have since been thinking of how I could post a comment that would express what I think, being a member of a "minority" from Harlem, without sounding like I'm paranoid, or complaining. Something intelligent and not too emotional. I'm still thinking, but I figured I would post SOMETHING. I was kind of surprised/disappointed that there weren't more comments. Then again, maybe the lack of comments says enough.

</comment><comment><USER4> Race is a complex topic. I wonder how many people will be willing to discuss it here.</comment>


A Renaissance Artist-Engineer Icon – Vitruvian Man - <AUTHOR> https://thonyc.wordpress.com/2017/04/05/a-renaissance-artist-engineer-icon-vitruvian-man/ <comment><USER2> I never knew that in this drawing Leonardo was trying his hand at illustrating a well-known passage from Vitruvius, thus the name.

Leonardo was interested in human proportions, and made a lot of notes of comparative anatomy, motivated mostly I think by his interest in accurate artistic depictions.

I have used the Vitruvian Man to remember that my arm-span is roughly the same as my height, when it comes to estimating measurements.

</comment><comment><USER3> I wonder if the submitter watched the same program last night on da Vinci that I did...

It was quite interesting, especially because they persuasively showed Vitruvian Man was likely developed in conjunction with a close friend and collaborator de Ferrara.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitruvian_Man#Evidence_of_coll...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitruvian_Man#Evidence_of_collaboration)</comment>


A JavaScript library to handle keyboard events - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/marquete/kibo

<comment><USER2> Having looked at neither of them closely myself, I wonder how this stacks up against Thomas Fuchs' keymaster.

<https://github.com/madrobby/keymaster>

</comment><comment> guard-of-terra It still won't process play/pause or next/previous buttons in any meaningful way.

The browser-hardware barrier arising from hardware makers never wanting to write standards, then never wanting to follow those that exists, never wanting to do anything consistently but loving to write custom buggy windows drivers makes me cry like a baby.

Every keyboard in the last ten years comes with play/pause, next, prev buttons - and the operating system and the browser seems to be horribly not sold on this fact.

<comment><USER3> I have a Microsoft Ergononmic Keynoard of some sort, with five buttons labeled 1-5.

Guess what I can do with then on my mac? A whole lotta nothin'. I think I can choose to launch an app, but it's literally easier to CMD-SPACE and type it in than to reach for the button.

I long for the ability to have those buttons run complex scripts of some kind.

<comment><USER2> Can tools like Keyboard Maestro[1] do anything or is the problem lower in the stack?

[1] <http://www.keyboardmaestro.com/main/>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Modestly valuable; but only supports the basic latin character set and a few miscellaneous keys on top of that. I'd be much more impressed if it were extensible to support multiple character sets and could work with them seamlessly.

I know that's not really the problem this little tool is trying to solve; but I suppose my point is that there are much more interesting / difficult problems with regard to keyboard input that I'd rather see libraries for than basic key handling.

</comment><comment><USER5> How easy is it to create support for other, non-ascii keys?

<comment><USER6> There's a simple keycode map at the top of the source. Should be easy to modify from client code.</comment></comment>


$10 Of Free Bitcoin For College Students - <AUTHOR> http://blog.coinbase.com/post/85758038492/10-of-free-bitcoin-for-college-students <comment><USER2> This reminds me of a very similar campaign Paypal did to help jumpstart the online payments market. Paypal offered $20 to anyone for opening an account or referring a new user[1]. This served to help rapidly grow a market of Paypal users before one existed.

1 (I highly recommend watching the full conversation as it's immensely interesting) - [http://youtu.be/vDwzmJpI4io?t=11m21s](http://youtu.be/vDwzmJpI4io?t=11m21s)

<comment><USER3> The difference being that most of these students will receive the free bitcoin and hold, hoping they appreciate in value, instead of transacting and contributing to the network effect.

<comment><USER4> Is this myth not dead yet? People spend bitcoin and want to spend it. There is also speculation and hoarding, but no universal law that says you can't do both.

$10 isn't even much to hoard. If the price goes up 10x that's still just $100. This is more like, "Oh, you got our drinks, I'll pay you back in btc!" kind of money.

<comment><USER5> How and when did hoarding bitcoin become a myth? Last I checked number of transactions per day was decreasing. And the C2C aspect you describe is unlikely to take off given the ease of cash or tools like Venmo, and lack of availability of bitcoin apps on iOS.

The myth here is that "people want to spend bitcoin." Just take a look at the bitcoin transaction volume merchants are seeing beyond the first few days.

<comment><USER6> > Last I checked number of transactions per day was decreasing.

Are you looking day to day trends? Because if you step back a little you'll see that transactions have done nothing but increase.

<comment><USER3> [https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions](https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions)

We see a decrease since December and otherwise flatlining. And this includes the trading volume that happens on the exchanges which has increased.

<comment><USER6> Only if you compare it to the peak of December, otherwise it's clearly rising.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Has Coinbase posted a list of the "top 500" colleges that are supported, or are we left to guess? I signed up a few minutes ago and haven't seen anything yet.

Edit: Still not showing up. Kinda scummy to advertise this to college students and not follow through, especially in the heat of finals week.

<comment><USER8> McGill University doesn't use an .edu domain, I tried signing up in case they included it anyway but got nothing.

<comment><USER9> That's interesting... (and a little too bad for you, since a lot of systems will give you student discounts and all just for the .edu email address), how come it is that way? Is that a thing with a lot of Canadian universities, or?

<comment><USER8> Yeah it's a shame. The wiki page for ".edu" specifies "Since 2001, new registrants to the domain have been required to be United States-affiliated institutions of higher education, though before then non-U.S.-affiliated—and even non-educational institutions—registered, with some retaining their registrations to the present."

So it definitely has a US bias.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> ANU student here, can confirm it works with .edu.au emails

How do they stop people taking advantage of the ability to create an arbitrary amount of email accounts?

<comment><USER11> It seems like they're detecting browser user agent (and possibly IP)

<comment><USER12> I'm not going to abuse this myself, but at MIT you can create seemingly- unlimited @mit.edu email addresses using Moira.

Getting a bunch of fresh IPs might be trickier, but you could probably wander around different WiFi access points, use the CSAIL OpenStack installation, or maybe just renew a DHCP lease a bunch.

User-agents a easy to find and change with a browser extension (or scripting).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> This is a great idea, just got mine! It worked for Paypal back in the day to boost signups. Hopefully between this and the MIT program we'll see more interesting transactions in BTC as opposed to people holding it as a lottery ticket.

</comment><comment><USER14> I tried this with my purdue.edu email a few days ago and it didn't work at all. I think it was because I used a computer in an on-campus lab to sign up. When emailing Coinbase support I got these responses that, while prompt, were unhelpful in actually fixing the issue:

>My apologies for the trouble! In some cases, we may not be able to credit this promotional bonus to new accounts. If we are able to credit it to your account, it will be displayed on the Transactions page immediately after signup.

>If another user used the same device to redeem the .edu promotional bonus, we unfortunately would not be able to credit it to your account at this time.

</comment><comment> why-el Anyone from coinbase here? Are there plans for international universities? Mine does not use a .edu but rather a country specific one. Would love to hit all students with this but I need to know first that they would be accepted.

</comment><comment><USER15> I signed up with my @berkeley.edu email, and the coins haven't showed up yet.

<comment><USER16> ditto

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> This is a great initiative on Coinbase's part. Will definitely get a lot of adopters because the free money will incentivize the use and then the experience of using Bitcoin should hold on to the new users.

</comment><comment><USER18> > This offer is good for _select .edu domains only_. We have tried to include > the top 500 universities _worldwide (this is not U.S. focused)_.

I'm not aware of a university outside of the US that uses a .edu TLD…

<comment><USER19> I'm an engineer at Coinbase. There are definitely many non-US domains included (e.g. .ac.CCTLD and .edu.CCTLD).

<comment><USER20> Why not publish the list? Surely it's not worth frustrating students from hundreds of colleges who try to take advantage of the offer and can't?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Hmm. I signed up a few minutes ago with my university email, but didn't get anything. Does it take a while?

Edit: Aha. It doesn't work for everyone, even within the top 500.

</comment><comment><USER22> Did not work for University of Twente emails (utwente.nl). Please know that all Dutch public universities are firmly within the top 500 of universities worldwide (whichever ranking you pick) but don't have .edu email addresses!

It's a shame, because I know a lot of people who would like to experiment with Bitcoins.

</comment><comment><USER23> This didn't work for my Swarthmore email address. I assume liberal arts colleges weren't included on the list of top "universities"?

Edit: And if someone from Coinbase is reading this, can we get added? I have friends who would be interested too.

</comment><comment><USER24> Not working for ox.ac.uk addresses (email@example.com)

</comment><comment><USER25> It looks like their list extends beyond .edu domains. I just registered with an @uwaterloo.ca email and received 0.02266 BTC.

</comment><comment><USER26> I hope they continue with the running totals for each university. It's interesting to see adoption and adoption rates.

</comment><comment><USER27> I'm not sure what qualifies top 500 college for them. So far from Brandeis and UCSB neither have gotten the $10.

</comment><comment><USER6> What about my @etu.u-bordeaux.fr ? I'd gladly tell the other students in my cryptography master.

</comment><comment><USER28> woohoo works for NYU! I just spread it around a bunch of social media outlets to get the word out :)

</comment><comment><USER29> This sounds great but I can't take advantage in Canada because we don't use .edu emails.

</comment><comment><USER30> I wonder if it works for my alumni.virginia.edu email? though i already have a coinbase account.

<comment><USER31> It doesn't appear to work with a regular viginia.edu email (at least not if the BTC are supposed to be deposited immediately upon account confirmation).

But, Wahoowa! :)

<comment><USER30> @privong wahoowa indeed! you're an astrophysicist?

<comment><USER31> Yes, I'm finishing my PhD right now in the astronomy dept at UVa (studying galaxy mergers), then moving on to do a postdoc.

<comment><USER30> a friend of mine is working in the physics dept patrick hopkins, look him up, nice dude.

<comment><USER31> Cool, I'll do that.

Btw, coinbase seems to work with UVa addresses.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> Well, now I have a coin base account but not $10. Looks like UC Davis email doesn't work.

<comment><USER33> I signed up with a @mit.edu and it doesn't appear to be credited, so I think maybe they've used up all the money in the promotional account.

<comment><USER32> I chatted with support and they said to email their support.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> Works for University of Birmingham (UK) email addresses. @bham.ac.uk

<comment><USER35> Thanks, didn't think I'd see another UoB student here!

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> they might be checking ip addresses. i succeeded with the first edu email i tried, nada for the second. both schools are listed on their site.

</comment><comment><USER36> worked from my uvic.ca address. 0.02229 BTC. thanks!

</comment><comment><USER37> Works for University of Toronto - uses utoronto.ca

</comment><comment><USER38> @andrew.cmu.edu doesn't work

</comment><comment><USER39> buffalo.edu works :) TY coinbase.

</comment><comment><USER40> @fas.harvard.edu didn't work

</comment><comment><USER41> Works with jhu.edu thanks!

</comment><comment><USER33> So glad some .edu sites allow creating mailing lists at top level, like @mit.edu :)

</comment><comment><USER42> rit.edu email works, thanks Coinbase!</comment>


GitHub Coders to Microsoft: Cut Ties with ICE or We'll Move Our Projects - <AUTHOR> https://gizmodo.com/github-coders-to-microsoft-cut-ties-with-ice-or-well-t-1827032609 <comment><AUTHOR> I am curious though: how many people hosting projects at GitHub were totally fine with Microsoft buying GitHub but now that the news of working with ICE has come out _THAT_ is a reason to move elsewhere?

<comment><USER2> According to the article, it's about 60. At least, that's the number of maintainers who signed the letter.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Microsoft was in PRISM according to Snowden, so also have ties to the NSA.

<comment><USER4> So were they all. Nobody has clean hands. Kvetching and raising a stink about it is so, so, so very effective.

If morality is of ultimate importance, we're going to have to go back to the days of projects hosting their own infrastructure. I'm not sure that's a bad thing, in the long run.

<comment><USER3> In this mentality, if a mob 1000 people attacks you, it's completely OK because everyone is doing it.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility)

<comment><USER5> If you're doing something wrong, or using power over them to make life miserable for somebody else, then yes. Usurping power by forming a mob is very much okay. If it weren't, the revolutionary war would never have taken place.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Just puzzled what would really be the impact from a business perspective if those coders move their projects out? Will it damage Github's reputation that would turn into a mass exodus of people using their service?

I think a fair set of governance on the ICE relationship that MS has alongside conformity from the developers / project maintainers can be achieved in this scenario.

<comment><USER5> I think before the dust settles a lot of people will be on gitlab instead of github. I've copied all my history/distros over there and have been using it more recently. I'm finding I like it a lot better anyways I especially like the 'groups' feature.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Why are all these stories flagged? Can't we discuss the issue in a civilized way? There are quite a few developers on the list of signees, and this socio- technological issue is definitely pertinent to HN. Can we please stop with this childish "I don't like it so I flag it" attitude?

</comment><comment><USER8> I mean, Microsoft is not a charity so if they deem okay to do business with ICE, good for them. And if it is so shocking to X, Y, or Z (the signees and others), then they should totally move elsewhere.

Threatening a company is a good weapon for consumers but leaving the company to go elsewhere would be a tad more impactful.

</comment><comment><USER9> Because if Compnay XYZ disagrees with your politics, you should punish them?

The same agency, ICE, does LOADS of good work, protecting America and it's citizens. Much like Microsoft (or any company)- that offers useful, widely deployed products.

Supporting GitHub/MSFT or doing business with them doesn't have to come with an implied liking of ICE.

Just like one may dislike in-laws while loving a spouse. You don't have to divorce your spouse to prove your dislike of the inlaws

<comment><USER10> "Because if Compnay XYZ disagrees with your politics, you should punish them?"

If a company implicitly assists in putting little children in camps, then yes, it's ok to "punish" them by not giving them your business.

"Just like one may dislike in-laws while loving a spouse. You don't have to divorce your spouse to prove your dislike of the inlaws"

Similarly, if my in-laws were racists and my wife didn't think that there were anything wrong with that, then yes, divorce would be an option.

<comment><USER11> Except they didn't. What's the more likely story: that Microsoft entered a multi-year contract with the US government and policies around the border recently changed or that Microsoft was complicit in US government policy and therefore responsible for all of their actions by association? Such a flat way of looking at the three dimensional, shades-of-grey world we live in...</comment></comment></comment>


Metrics for Start-Up - <AUTHOR> http://blog.kissmetrics.com/9-metrics/

<comment><USER2> This is great. Actually I think it says more than how to measure your startup. I think it says what are the important factors in your business. What you should be concentrating on doing as a startup.</comment>


Steve Jobs Yacht  - <AUTHOR> http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/28/3565970/steve-jobs-yacht-photos

<comment><USER2> That thing is ugly.</comment>


Erdős–Bacon number - <AUTHOR> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erd%C5%91s%E2%80%93Bacon_number <comment><USER2> Erdős–Bacon numbers got their start when Simon Singh (reference 1 archived) was having lunch with me, and I observed that mine was 4. He writes for a living, so he wrote a column.

Oddly, I was long ago written out of this Wikipedia article.

There is a reasonable ambiguity about Erdős numbers, as people do publish posthumously with him, based on collaborations while he was alive.

There is also an ambiguity about Bacon numbers. One can take the spirit of the original dorm room bull sessions that started Bacon numbers, or one can take the idiosyncrasies as gospel of the web site that now reports Bacon numbers. For example, a mathematician can appear as themself in a documentary, and gain a Bacon number according to this web site. They defend this by observing that these mathematicians did experience film sets (so do caterers) but the reality is that it's too hard to clean the data. I've been interviewed multiple times for documentaries, and the experience bears no resemblance whatsoever to that of working on and acting in "A Beautiful Mind". The original intent was to count actors with credited speaking roles.

<comment><USER3> What role did you play in A Beautiful Mind? I.e. who are you?

<comment><USER4> Based on [0] and [1] I'd say Professor Dave Bryer.

[0] [https://web.archive.org/web/20121112081753/http://www.telegr...](https://web.archive.org/web/20121112081753/http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science- news/4768389/And-the-winner-tonight-is.html)

[1] [https://simonsingh.net/media/articles/maths-and- science/erdo...](https://simonsingh.net/media/articles/maths-and- science/erdos-bacon-numbers/)

[2] [https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1101413/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t41](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1101413/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t41)

<comment><USER2> Yes, Dave Bayer. I was the math consultant, but it's like joining the circus, once inside you do what you can. For one example, when I was a kid my Mom left out a Time Life book on drugs, and my brother and I were fascinated by the various photographs of spiderwebs made under the influence of different recreational drugs. That idea helped shape the "mad shack" in the film. I was also Russell Crowe's hand double, and I had a speaking part in the pen ceremony.

<comment><USER3> Russell Crowe's hand double? Does he have bad hands or something?

<comment><USER5> Not having seen the movie, I'm guessing there are scenes where Crowe needs to write some math, and it just looked more convicing by letting an actual mathematician do it for him.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> My favorite Erdős trivia is that he was an avid amphetamine user.

        Erdős's friends worried about his drug use, and in 1979 Graham bet Erdős
        $500 that he couldn't stop taking amphetamines for a month. Erdős accepted,
        and went cold turkey for a complete month. Erdős's comment at the end of the
        month was "You've showed me I'm not an addict. But I didn't get any work done.
        I'd get up in the morning and stare at a blank piece of paper. I'd have no
        ideas, just like an ordinary person. You've set mathematics back a month."
        He then immediately started taking amphetamines again

My man.

[https://www.untruth.org/~josh/math/Paul%20Erd%F6s%20bio- rev2...](https://www.untruth.org/~josh/math/Paul%20Erd%F6s%20bio-rev2.pdf)

<comment><USER7> "I'm not a drug addict, I just can't function without drugs. Totally different."

<comment><USER8> Some people have unfortunate brain chemistry/homeostasis, and are keen to adjust it.

It's a real thing.

Hard to separate from desiring the pleasure/illness, to be fair.

<comment><USER6> Spot on.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I've never heard of Erdos Bacon numbers. My university professor Dr Tjaden pioneered the Bacon Number and it was a pretty obscure claim to fame he had.

I'm guessing his Erdos Bacon number was 3+1=4. He appeared in a documentary with Kevin Bacon about the 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon, and has a peer at the university with an Erdos of 3. What a world we live in!

</comment><comment><USER10> If you like science podcasts, in one of the "Infinite Monkey Cage" episodes, I (believe) Stephen Fry was discussing this. Great podcast (BBC).

</comment><comment><USER11> I was surprised not to see Kip Thorne there. He has been heavily involved with Hollywood for ages apart from being an accomplished scientist.

</comment><comment><USER12> If you count appearances on TV, I think I have a E-B number of 6, possibly 5.

I'm actively working on getting a finite E-B-S number ...

</comment><comment><USER13> What is that double-accented o called and how is it pronounced?

<comment><USER14> For pronunciation, one resource is [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_phonology#Vowels](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_phonology#Vowels)

That particular diacritic mark is a double accent.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_acute_accent#Hungarian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_acute_accent#Hungarian)

> _" In Hungarian, the double acute is thought of as the letter having both an > umlaut and an acute accent"_

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> It took me a while to understand xkcd #599[1]; now I'm wondering what the current lower bound on someone's Erdős–Bacon Number is today. Anyone know?

[1]: [https://www.xkcd.com/599/](https://www.xkcd.com/599/)

<comment><USER16> Can you ELI5 both? I don't get it.

<comment><USER17> Someone's "Bacon" number is how many films you have to go through in order to go from that person to Kevin Bacon. For example Patrick Stewart's Bacon number is 2. Star Trek: First Contact -[James Cromwell]-> Beyond All Boundaries -> Kevin Bacon.

Someone's Erdős number is the same concept, but applied to coauthorship on research papers.

Someone's Erdős-Bacon number is the sum of those two numbers.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> When I read this, I immediately began thinking if there is someone I know who has been involved in both science/math and TV/movies and the name that popped up for me was Carl Sagan. Carl Sagan has Erdos-Bacon number of 6.</comment>


Don't call me an Entrepreneur - <AUTHOR> http://www.kernelmag.com/comment/opinion/3558/dont-call-me-an-entrepreneur/

<comment><USER2> I appreciate the sentiment. It seems like the most common title/description on Twitter is something to the effect of "CEO and Co-founder of _________ "

Everyone wants to be considered an entrepreneur, CEO, or founder or something these days....even if it's only their personal blog or a pet project.</comment>


Ask HN: Simple way to plan a full-scale ecommerce operation? - <AUTHOR> I want to start selling stuff online using my own Rails store -- but what's the best way to plan and present a full-scale ecommerce operation with a business plan and a thorough financial model? <comment><USER2> I don't know what "full-scale" means here... you want a store, inventory management system (with multi-channel fulfillment options), warehouse management software, customer rewards / personalized coupons for writing reviews, accounting system integration, fraud prevention, shipment tracking, predictive analytics so you know when you order more toothpaste when people stop ordering toothpicks, the ability to do affiliate sales, and 20 other services, all integrated with your CRM and marketing automation systems? All with dynamic scaling and multiple layers of redundancy?

Or are you looking for someone to tell you which clone of Shopify is best right now?

A few more details are needed to make the question answerable. (=</comment>


Backyard Tent Renting for $899/Month Sums Up Everything Wrong with the Bay Area - <AUTHOR> http://sf.curbed.com/archives/2015/06/25/backyard_tent_renting_for_899month_sums_up_everything_thats_wrong_with_the_bay_area.php

<comment><USER2> LOL, might be cheaper to just rent a van and sleep in the car!</comment>


Kakai: It's a Kindle for Students and Much More - <AUTHOR> http://kara.allthingsd.com/20100422/exclusive-kakai-stealthy-no-more-its-a-kindle-for-students-and-much-more/ <comment><USER2> A Kindle for students at a low price is an interesting product, but what is needed then are affordable textbooks. Creating and vetting textbook content is expensive and difficult. Textbook content is one of those areas where the crazies exercise their power--"evolution" and "intelligent design" are just the tip of the ice burg.</comment>


The Jack-of-all-trades Fallacy - <AUTHOR> http://www.empiricalmagic.com/post/23604997556/the-jack-of-all-trades-fallacy

<comment><USER2> "Almost every CV I see at Empirical Magic highlights the candidates ability to develop Android and iOS Apps. These almost always end up getting deleted."

I agree 100% to be wary of "Jack-of-all-trades", but it's perfectly reasonable for someone to specialize in mobile development... i.e. native iOS and Android mobile development. Now, if they load up their resume with a bunch of other crap then I'd push it aside.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'd argue for a management, design or testing roll specialising in "mobile development" is fine, even a benefit.

But for developers it makes no sense, an average Android developer makes a terrible iOS developer and vice versa.

A 100% iOS dev is going to be 50% better (at least) than one that splits their time between 2 (or 3) platforms.</comment></comment>


Net firms in music pirates deal - <AUTHOR> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7522334.stm

<comment><USER2> It's a loss for net neutrality. But not a win for the war against piracy.

Things will be so nice once the music industry accepts this truth: recorded music is no longer a product, it's a marketing tool. It's time to start monetizing live concerts on a web scale. It will be the only way to keep the cash flowing. People are becoming more and more accustomed to getting their music for free, and through more and more legitimate channels (e.g. snuzu.com)</comment>


Waltz: make web.py apps in 3/4 time - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/mekarpeles/waltz

<comment><AUTHOR> The inspiration for the project came from having to rebuild scaffolding for web.py projects over and over again.

I figured, people should just be able to clone a repository, install dependencies, and have a working web.py application.

I also added a key feature which I've been missing in my own applications -- default support for logging analytics.

Overall, the application is ideal for getting a website live in the time it takes to 'git clone'. The analytics currently driven by lazydb (which isn't production ready) so I'd suggest modifying the @track decorator in waltz/main.py to fit your tastes.

The next step is to add default flatfile support for sessions.</comment>


How remote work changed my life - <AUTHOR> http://justinjackson.ca/remote/

<comment><USER2> Great review/post.

Remote work is the way of the future. A recent study from of IBM employees showed that if employees have a modest commute then they only need to work 38 hours/week before they start to have work/life balance issues.

If employees work for a company that allows them to telecommute, they can work almost 60 hours per week before running in to work/life balance issues. That's a big deal.

(That's not to say you should put in 60 hour weeks if you can help it, but it highlights the negative effects a commute has on people and their happiness in life.)

<comment><AUTHOR> I can identify with that completely.

The commute just killed me - added so much stress and load. It affected me at work (I'd come into the office feeling burnt out), and it affected me at home (I'd often arrive home deflated).

<comment><USER3> Is it the commute or the interruptions at work? I find that my commute is only 22km on 2 roads which takes about 35 minutes to drive, but it's the constant interruptions that slow me down so much. Working remotely frees me from those allowing me more time to concentration on the current task or project.

<comment><USER4> As someone who worked from home for a while but now work in NYC and program for a living: definitely both. Somewhat physically draining and (very) time- wasting commute, and lots of interruptions when in the zone.

However, many tasks are tens of times easier to complete when you can walk over to somebody and get an answer to your problem. I don't care how many Basecamp, VoIP installs and standups you have--trying to do the same remotely doesn't compare.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> 5 years ago I had an opportunity to work from home for 6 months and it drove me nuts! I guess I'm built in a way that I thrive on human-to-human interaction. Limiting myself to just digital communication actually made me sad.

Company should optimize for happiness. So for people like me, have an office. For people who thrive on working remotely, it should do everything it can to make them comfortable. I don't think there's a right or wrong approach. Just optimize for your workforce.

<comment><AUTHOR> Absolutely. Jason and DHH talk about that quite a bit in the book.

If you read the book, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.

<comment><USER5> Yeah, if I recall correctly, 37Signals does have an office and a handful of employees do work out of the office. 37Signals clearly knows how to optimize for happiness and efficiency.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I don't really relate to the "soul sucking" idea of a commute.

I work about a little over an hour away from my office and work from home several days a week. It's a nice trade-off between being in the office, where interaction happens, and being remote, where remote interaction happens, but also where I can hit substantially higher levels of productivity.

While I could do without my evening commute, I generally ENJOY the morning commute. I have Spotify to dig into albums and discover new music, audiobooks, a lot of podcasts I like, organize my day and think through problems at work. Even on the return home when I want to decompress and NOT think about work, I still have stuff I can listen to and enjoy.

I don't think commuting is any sort of great way to spend time, but "soul- sucking", even in horrible traffic when you're having a bad day and just want to be at home, is a bit dramatic. Inconvenience != soul sucking and such statements remind me of the Louis C.K. bits on American whining.

<comment><USER7> If you lived a mile away from work you could always choose to just drive around in circles for an hour every morning and listen to audiobooks.

<comment><USER6> I did say it wasn't a "great" way to spend time. Lots of shades between that and "soul sucking".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I've started working remotely and I've never achieved so much work as in the past two months. Being ahead of schedule also opened up some hours to work on personal projects, which is great.

Previously, I would endure on a 4-hour daily commute by bus/metro, work on a noisy office, and for a lower pay to boot. No way I go back to that life.

</comment><comment><USER9> Question about incomes and San Francisco start ups that offer full-time remote work:

If X programmer would make 100k/yr working at your location in San Francisco, does X programmer make 100k/yr if they are full-time remote in another city?

<comment><USER10> Depends on what you negotiate, of course

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> nice post. Having worked remotely, I definitely prefer that to office even if there is a short commute but this took some time. When I initially started working remotely, I was hard to stay on track. But having a separate "work" place did wonders.</comment>


Ask HN: Still not sold on Path v2? - <AUTHOR>

Path v2 has a beautifully awesome design, but I'm still not sold on it's use case. Any adamant Path users want to explain the value you get out of the app? <comment><USER2> Tons of use cases.

College students in student organizations / greek organizations can all be in the same path, and share rich content with each other in real time.

Family members of several generations (Grandparents, parents, kids, etc) can stay connected / share information.

Or just even a generic close group of friends!

</comment><comment><USER3> My girlfriend loves it. She loves sharing and viewing photos. Its better than twitter in that you don't have to click the links to see the pictures. Time will tell, but I like it so far also.

<comment><USER4> Why not just use a Twitter client with in-timeline photos like Twittelator Neue or Tweetings?

<comment><USER3> that would probably work also. Honestly I have just never heard of them. Path has a really nice simple interface and I know we are all looking a the same thing. You never know what twitter client someone is using or if they will be seeing your photos.</comment></comment></comment>


How Technology Has Failed to Improve Your Airline Experience - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/technology/how-technology-has-failed-to-improve-your-airline-experience.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news <comment><USER2> Technology generally improves things by making them more available, higher availability generally reduces costs via a number of factors.

Air travel has quite a large number of non-technological limitations. The first is airport size and location. Most in demand locations to travel to have land use limitations on expansion. There simply isn't more room to put stuff there and as demand goes up, over crowding occurs. Expansion is also meet with heavy resistance from people that live near airports. Just building new airports isn't always the answer either. They require massive amounts of land and end up great distances from population centers, demanding more expensive infrastructure to where people want to go.

If technology has failed anything in this case, is that it's made cheap tickets available which in turn has increased demand for leisure air travel. Customers traveling for fun are much more price conscious then those travelling for business, and represent the large majority of passengers now.</comment>


Beyond Horizons: 443km world record of distant landscape photography - <AUTHOR> https://beyondhorizons.eu/2016/08/03/pic-de-finestrelles-pic-gaspard-ecrins-443-km/ <comment><USER2> Here is a photo of Denver taken from California (1400 miles away): [https://www.reddit.com/r/Denver/comments/3xuc2t/denver_from_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/Denver/comments/3xuc2t/denver_from_1400_miles_worldview3_satellite_was/)

[https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/12/a-new...](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/12/a-new- kind-of-landscape-photography/421287/?single_page=true)

<comment><AUTHOR> I don't think the satellite was standing on the ground at the time it took the photo, though :-)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I'm unable to find it, but I'm pretty certain this was already submitted shortly after the original post in 2016 - may be some other interesting HN discussion already if anyone can find it.

<comment><USER4> Perhaps this - [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14861075](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14861075)

<comment><USER3> That rings a bell - thanks for digging it up!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> The explanations as to why this does not prove the Earth is flat is great. I am not a flat Earther (I very much believe it to be roughly spherical) but I didn't know something like this could be explained by "atmospheric refraction"

It gives me even more respect for astronomers and physicists that they are able to account for factors like this when doing their calculations.

</comment><comment><USER6> Love the comments in the original article, talking about a Flat Earth.

<comment><USER7> But the answers with calculations are interesting. Is there a simulator online to calculate the distance you should be able to see from a given point (and altitude), with and without refraction?

<comment><USER8> There is: [http://www.heywhatsthat.com/?view=NRXM7WAC](http://www.heywhatsthat.com/?view=NRXM7WAC)

You can toggle flat/curved Earth as well as the refraction and even the height of the photographer above the ground level :)

<comment><USER9> I can't work out how to do any of the things you said you can do. Is there more interface to this that I'm not seeing?

EDIT: Never mind, it's the "Parameters" text. This is cool :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Perhaps most amazing is that the camera used is in the $200-300 price range and the lens was just the integrated lens using a zoom.

</comment><comment><USER11> If this is interesting, you might also like Mt Fuji from 2500km. [http://blog.digitalglobe.com/industry/from-a-bird-from-a- pla...](http://blog.digitalglobe.com/industry/from-a-bird-from-a-plane-from-a- satellite/)

</comment><comment><USER12> The comments are gold. I always thought flat earthers were thought up by the government to discredit believers in real conspiracies (like the 9-11 inside job). Seems like flat earthers are either real or the government is doubling down on sock puppets feeling that this discrediting is very necessary.

<comment><USER13> Oh they are very real. I've met a few. I had expected that they would be elderly nutters like the Apollo deniers. But was I got was self-centred young people. They place their own perceptions above all others, not accepting the word of any "scientist" or "doctor". It really is amazing to witness an intelligent and thoughtful person build their own fantasy world of conspiracies and shadow enemies. It's like going to a book reading by Tolkien only to realize he is carrying a real sword and expects orcs to pop out of the audience.

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early- lead/wp/2017/07/28...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early- lead/wp/2017/07/28/kyrie-irvings-flat-earth-beliefs-now-the-bane-of-middle- school-teachers/)

<comment><USER14> > It really is amazing to witness an intelligent and thoughtful person build > their own fantasy...

When it comes to the vocal conspiracy theorists you see online, I think they really get a kick out of believing that they're just smarter than everyone else. "Everyone else" being the 99% of the population who they label as "sheep" because they agree with science or facts that are "too obvious."

The other spectrum of conspiracy theorists however, may just really want to believe in their fantasy world.

<comment><USER13> It goes two ways. Some of them call us sheep for following the obvious and themselves follow the ridiculously complex. Those are the traditional conspiracy theorists. Others deny the complex and instead believe only simple explanations based on their own perceptions. That's where I draw the line between oldschool theorists and modern theorists. The oldschool theorist believes in a complex government conspiracy hiding behind a veil of secrecy (the black helicopter crowd of the 90s). The modern theorist dismisses a complex theory based such as climate change in favour of their own perceptions ("I'm cold"). The former believes the world to be run be evil geniuses. The later by idiots.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> *2016 please, I thought this would be a new one.

<comment><USER16> I have a vague recollection of something like this in central Asia, within the last year or so, but I can't find a reference to it (maybe from a peak in the Pamirs to a mountain of the Karakorum?)

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> I liked their view ray diagram, because they included adjustments for the curvature of the earth.

</comment><comment><USER18> So now someone could try to setup an optical link between those points. I wonder would it be a bit easier then a straight photograph?

<comment><USER19> An optical link between two distant peaks that'll be almost always unavailable due to atmospheric conditions and weather? For what purpose?

<comment><USER20> At the very least it would identify some category of atmospheric conditions when the link is up.

And lasers. If I ever figure out how to squeeze lasers into a project, it's a done deal.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Let the Flat Earth commenters begin. They are already some on the blog itself, but I think the HN commenter has a higher class of eruditon, scientific exposition and rigor.

I tend to go with Flat Earthers because I find the counter-arguments against their claims rather inadequate, but that could be because I lack the scientific understanding to comprehend them.

<comment><USER22> The difference between flat earthers and round earthers is that round earthers can correctly predict the outcome of observations using their mathematical models, and flat earthers cannot.

Take the recent total eclipse as an example. It was predicted years (centuries) in advance using round earth mathematics. Is there even a single flat earther who was able to predict the eclipse using their model? If there is, I haven't heard.

<comment><USER23> _The difference between flat earthers and round earthers is that round earthers can correctly predict the outcome of observations using their mathematical models, and flat earthers cannot._

That is probably the most profound rebuttal to flat-earthers I've heard. Granted, it's a grand extrapolation of "where do you think ships go when they sail over the horizon?", but it's an excellent summary.

<comment><USER24> I'm more wondering about when would one need any rebuttal to start with. Most online comments are probably trolls, and if not, it's not worth your time anyway. Is it common to have friends or relatives with such a feeble grasp of reality?

<comment><USER25> I know somebody who believes in chemtrails, flat earth and a lot of other stuff. There is really no way to argue with her because at the bottom of everything there is a big, powerful conspiracy.

I told her once that Alex Jones certainly has enough money to rent a jet to fly into a chemtrail and take some samples or take a ship and go straight and see what happens. But of course there tons of government conspiracies to prevent these things. In the end these people don't really want to know. They just have a deep discomfort with the current state of things.

<comment><USER22> > In the end these people don't really want to know. They just have a deep > discomfort with the current state of things.

This is a very succinct description of the mindset of the flat earthers I have talked with.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Netflix Announces Its New 'Unlimited' Maternity and Paternity Leave Program - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2015/08/04/netflix-announces-its-new-unlimited-maternity-and-paternity-leave-program/ <comment><USER2> I'm highly suspicious of "unlimited" vacation or leave policies because the line between reasonable and not is still there, it's just way less visible and ultimately arbitrary, depending on your management chain and workload. I can't wait for this fad to die. Let's just have generous, well-defined leave policies that don't put the onus on the employee to figure out what is OK and what isn't.

"Experience shows people perform better at work when they're not worrying about home." People also perform better at work when they're not worrying about repercussions for being seen to abuse their "unlimited" leave.

<comment><USER3> I think unlimited with a minimum is really the solution.

Without a minimum people are reluctant to take time off from what I've seen and read.

<comment><USER4> I've seen places that have that minimum be mandatory. As in, if you haven't taken a vacation by a certain time, they will insist, even go so far as restricting access until the vacation is over.

The great thing about a mandatory minimum (never thought I'd be saying those words), is that it doesn't allow someone to over work themselves into a frenzy, making everyone else look lazy, while simultaneously burning themselves out.

<comment><USER5> It's also a somewhat hilarious contrast to those companies who _take away_ your vacation time if you don't use it within a certain time period (often just 1 year).

<comment> chestnut-tree _" It's also a somewhat hilarious contrast to those companies who take away your vacation time if you don't use it within a certain time period"_

This is pretty standard in the UK. If you're a permanent employee, your annual leave allowance (e.g. 4-6 weeks of holiday) covers a period of one year. If you don't take that leave during the year, you lose it (you're unlikely to get paid for the untaken leave).

Some companies may allow you to carry over _some_ of that leave to the next year (e.g. a week) or may allow you to "sell" or "buy" some extra leave. However, this normally needs to be done at the start of the annual leave year so requires some pre-planning on the employees part.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Unlimited leave policies encourage employees to self-police and conform to peer pressure. At a place like Netflix I can imagine the result being that people end up taking less than the industry average.

A better gimmick would be if Netflix picked one of the Nordics and announced that they were going to adopt all of the social policies provided by that country's government.

<comment><USER7> > I can imagine the result being that people end up taking less than the > industry average

The industry average in the US is abysmal though. Yahoo 'doubled' theirs to 16 weeks, which is 1/3 of Canada's (and many other countries') legally mandated minimum. Taking _double_ the industry average would still be abysmal by global standards.

<comment><USER8> It's a shame that canada has a better mat/pat leave standard but such a terrible (same as the U.S.) vacation standard.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> "We want employees to have the flexibility and confidence to balance the needs of their growing families without worrying about work or finances ... Each employee ... works with their managers for coverage during their absences."

So, the conversation could be just "Hey manager as per the new policy, I would like to be a full-time mum / dad for the next 12 months; will you arrange cover for me?" Is that right, no questions asked?

If Netflix's "unlimited vacation" policy actually meant that, they surely wouldn't need to publish a _second_ "unlimited" parental leave policy as well?

<comment><USER10> I'm a hiring manager at Netflix. If one of my employees told me "I'm going to take the year off, see you in a year," I'd basically go "OK, have a great time with your kids. Send us a picture every once in a while."

And then I'd backfill them. And when they got back, I'd have an extra engineer. Chances are by that point I'll be looking to expand the team anyway.

<comment><USER11> How about if it was, "I just had a kid, so I'm going to stay home to raise them, and I'll be back in 18 years, assuming they get into college"?

<comment><USER12> TFA says the policy is 1 year paid leave, with an option to work (toward promotion/bonus, i assume). not unlimited. Calling it unlimited is just nonsense.

<comment><USER11> Heh, you're right. I sort of glossed over that.

"With this in mind, today we're introducing an unlimited leave policy for new moms and dads that allows them to take off as much time as they want during the first year after a child's birth or adoption."

What kind of idiot writes this nonsense?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> "With this in mind, today we're introducing an unlimited leave policy for new moms and dads that allows them to take off as much time as they want during the first year after a child's birth or adoption"

Ah, unlimited for a year. So no taking 30 years off after your child is born then.

<comment><USER14> > So no taking 30 years off after your child is born then.

That's simple - just keep having children. Time it right and you can take off permanently for decades.

<comment><USER15> And yet virtually no ones does this.

<comment><USER16> After the first one or two most people start to fully understands the downsides of such a proposition.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Congratulations Netflix. I'm personally a big believer that equal maternity and paternity leave is crucial for future equality in the workforce, and Netflix have just set a great example to the rest of the industry. And a full year is excellent too. Hopefully other employers will take notice, or even better it becomes a legal requirement. Why it isn't already in some countries[1] continues to mystify–to my mind, a business should not be considered successful unless it can afford to, and does, treat its employees like human beings.

[1] I say "some countries" but really it's only the United States and Papua New Guinea that haven't made it a legal requirement to have some form of paid maternity leave, among countries where data is available (e.g. North Korea isn't listed). Oman used to be in that list, but they left in 2011. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_leave](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_leave) and [http://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/\---dgreports/\---dcom...](http://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/---dgreports/---dcomm/---publ/documents/publication/wcms_242615.pdf)

<comment><USER18> Saying "the US" is usually not helpful here, since many of these issues are simply not legislated at the national/federal level. Some states do have paid leave: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maternity_leave_in_the_United_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maternity_leave_in_the_United_States#/media/File:Paid_maternity_leave_by_state.jpg)

<comment><USER19> GP is talking about _parity_ between maternity and paternity leave. Citing statistics about the existence (or, as is demonstrably more common, _non_ -existence) of maternity leave is pretty orthogonal to that.

Unless you're claiming that the fact that most states don't offer _any_ paid maternity leave (and almost certainly no paid paternity leave, either) counts as the kind of parity the GP was arguing for, I guess.

<comment><USER18> _GP is talking about parity between maternity and paternity leave._

Not when talking about the US, otherwise it wouldn't just be two countries, since many -if not most- countries in the world don't have any paternity leave at all (even in Western Europe - see Switzerland).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> I've seen quite a few reactions to the Netflix unlimited PTO policy that are similar to the reactions to the new Maternity and Paternity policy. Many of these opinions are the likes of:

* "I'm suspicious of this."

* "No one takes any vacation at Netflix because of this."

* "Unlimited == None"

* "Peer pressure means that everyone works 52 weeks a year."

* "Without a PTO policy you can't cash out unused vacation. This is a rip off."

The thing I haven't seen in these statements are "I work at Netflix and this is what it is really like"...

Here we go - I work at Netflix (as an engineer) and this is what is _really_ like:

* I'm pressured to _take_ vacations.

* Managers are taught that they are examples to the teams therefore they must take regular vacations.

* I take more vacation now than I did when I had 2/3/4/5 weeks a year of stated, paid, vacation.

Questions I've answered about this: * Does my team fall apart when someone leaves for 4 weeks? No. They're adults and they know how to prepare to be away for a while.

* People must raise their eyebrows at you when you leave! No.

* You get called all the time right so you keep your laptop with you on vacation? No. They're adults and they know how to get along without me for a while.

* You must do tons of extra work when people go on vacation! No. People don't just drop stuff and run. They prepare, get stuff ready, postpone things until they're back, etc.

* Managers must "encourage" you not to take vacations. Nope, opposite.

* You feel irresponsible taking time off then. No I don't.

* People must leave for months a time right? The policy gets really abused! No, stop it. Assuming the extreme case must be the common case is silly. You're smarter than that.

* This can't possibly be true. You're a liar/shill/idiot! Next.

* This doesn't/can't work at my company. Therefore, it can't work at yours! Netflix corporate culture is likely very different than your company. Take a look at the culture deck presentation.

This type of policy likely can't work everywhere.

It may not work everywhere in the valley.

It _does_ work here.

[edit] formatting fail

<comment><USER11> Honest question: why _don 't_ people just leave for months at a time? Is it because everyone understands that "unlimited" is actually "one month a year, more or less" or whatever the actual amount is?

<comment><USER20> I can speak for me and others I know rather well - I like what I do. I enjoy going to work, finding things to fix, and fixing them. There are those things that I don't enjoy doing, but, they're not the majority by a long shot. So, six months away wouldn't be that attractive.

Along with the that, one of the tenets of the business is "Freedom and Responsibility". If you can be responsible taking six months off then you are free to do so. I know people that take 4 weeks off at a time without issue. They plan their projects and commitments, communicate to their team, and make sure they're ready to be out for 4 weeks. Then, they leave for 4 week.

<comment><USER11> Maybe that's the difference. No matter how cool the company is (unless it's, say, SpaceX) I have a hard time imagining that the work would be more interesting than whatever I could come up with to do on my own. Which is probably a big part of why I don't work for a big company.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Doesn't Netflix already offer unlimited vacation? Parental leave isn't vacation, of course, but the cynic in me thinks this is another example of a case where a corporation can benevolently offer the moon while replying on peer pressure to ensure that no employee accepts what is on offer to anywhere near its fullest extent.

Does Netflix publish any stats about vacation usage?

<comment><USER22> Isn't part of their unlimited vacation perk a promise not to track how much vacation you use?

<comment><USER10> It's not explicit, but as I noted above that generally ends up being the case. Most other managers here with whom I've talked consider tracking vacation usage ... suspect and worrisome. It feels icky, so we don't do it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> I don't get all the backlash in these comments around the "unlimited" policies. Do any of the people opposing the unlimited policies have them in place at their own company?

I've had unlimited vacation at my last two companies. I've seen it abused as my previous employer but it's worked out great at my current job. I'm not "peer pressured" by my other coworkers like everyone here seems to think I would be. As long as I get my work done on time my manager let's me take a day off here and there for a long weekend. I tend to take friday's every once in a while for a weekend vacation. I'm leaving for 2.5 weeks pretty soon for an international vacation.

It's just easier on everyone. HR doesn't have to track how many days people are taking off and my manager and I don't spend time coordinating time off either. I simply put it in my calendar with enough notice and everyone is happy.

Why does everyone seem to think unlimited vacation forces people to "conform to peer pressure" and to work harder than they normally would?

<comment><USER24> _I 'm not "peer pressured" by my other coworkers like everyone here seems to think I would be. As long as I get my work done on time my manager let's me take a day off here and there for a long weekend._

The peer pressure is usually not explicit, it's implied by the ambiguity of the policy and the (unknown to you) true expectations from management. How do you know that your vacation time isn't secretly being counted against you? What if other people aren't comfortable taking it because they want a good performance review? This was definitely happening at the mid-size enterprise shop I used to work at where they couldn't wait to jump on the Unlimited PTO fad because they knew people would end up taking less. It's definitely anti- employee unless the company aggressively demonstrates that it's ok to take as much PTO as you like. With a more definite PTO policy, you don't have this issue as much.

Plus, it's just dumb and kind of insulting. It's not "unlimited," everyone knows that. Just set a reasonable policy so people don't have to guess.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> I'm glad to see paternity leave included and given equal weight to maternity. So many employers don't offer this important benefit.

<comment><USER26> > I'm glad to see paternity leave included and given equal weight to > maternity. So many employers don't offer this important benefit.

Really? What employer doesn't offer family leave on equal terms? Certainly, this _used_ to be quite common, but every place I've seen for many years has explicitly been equal.

<comment><USER27> The link references an article about yahoo that states yahoo and google give more time off for maternity leave (the article is from 2013 so it may have changed since then).

"Yahoo will give mothers after the birth of a child from 8 weeks to 16 weeks. Fathers of newborns will get 8 weeks paid leave. Google gives mothers five months off and fathers seven weeks off." [http://www.businessinsider.com/marissa-mayer-doubles-the- len...](http://www.businessinsider.com/marissa-mayer-doubles-the-length-of- yahoos-paid-maternity-leave-gives-new-dads-eight-weeks-off-2013-4)

<comment><USER28> Google gives non-birth-mother parents 12 weeks of paid parental leave if they're the primary or equal caregiver during that time.

For example, if you work at Google and both you and your wife work full time, and then she has a baby (or you adopt) and you'd like to both stay home to be equal caregivers, you get 12 weeks of paid leave with basically no questions asked.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> This is dumb. As others have pointed out, all it does is use peer pressure to decide what the "proper amount" of Paternity Leave is. Netflix is probably such a pressure cooker that when people need to and want to take Paternity Leave, they won't take it for fear of upsetting the group and losing their jobs. Managers will abuse it just to keep productivity up.

Want to be a progressive company? Clearly define how long Paternity Leave is, make it generous, tell employees to take it and order managers not to harass employees that do. Don't do nebulous HR policies that just end up confusing people. Make it so that people can take a couple of 2 week vacations a year without worrying about their jobs, that would help too.

<comment><USER23> "Netflix is probably..."

All you're doing is speculating. If people don't like these policies then they have the power to leave.

<comment><USER12> That is a contentless rebuttal. Obviously people choose among their options. That doesn't mean the options are optimal or efficient.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> This is a laudable policy and I truly respect Netflix for doing it. But the sad truth is that the people who need this most are those on minimum wage or less, or those treated as "contract workers" so their employer can keep an even bigger cut of profits (e.g. Uber).

In other words the Mathew Effect in our economy and society is further reinforced. The Mathew Effect is "the other invisible hand", except that it is insidious rather than virtuous. And unlike Adam Smith's invisible hand, it is most often ignored or trivialized, if not outright denied, by pure free-market adherents.

</comment><comment><USER31> This is a step in right direction.

"The United States remains the only member of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, or OECD, that does not guarantee mothers any paid time off from work after the birth of a new child. (see Figure 1) In fact, the United States is one of only four countries in the world—along with Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Papua New Guinea—where workers do not have the right to paid maternity leave." [http://cdn.americanprogress.org/wp- content/uploads/2013/03/I...](http://cdn.americanprogress.org/wp- content/uploads/2013/03/IWD_PaidLeave_fig1.png)

</comment><comment><USER32> I don't see why it's your employer's job to subsidize the birth of your children with paid maternity/paternity leave.

Why not just pay everyone more and those who want children can use the extra to save up to take a year off work?

<comment><USER30> For the same reason it makes sense for everyone to collectively to pay for public schools, including those who do not have kids.

In places where population growth is not a concern, such as in the U.S. where birth and deaths are at equilibrium, those who have and raise children and do it at least reasonably well are producing _positive externalities_ [1]. And the better the children are raised and educated, the more the positive[2]. Policies like Netflix's thus benefit society as a whole.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality#Positive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality#Positive)

[2] The flip side is that when children are raised poorly, be it the fault of the parent or the society that sets the parent up for failure, it turns negative.

<comment><USER32> A country like the US would be better served by immigration than having its own children. You could choose only the best of the best in the world to grow your population instead of throwing the genetic dice.

But that's beside the point; we don't have Netflix pay for public schools, the state does that. Similarly Netflix paying for maternity/paternity leave seems silly to me.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> This is what I think of Unlimited vacation or otherwise: There should first be a mandatory vacation time, then an unlimited option beyond this mandatory time. Plain and simple.

<comment><USER10> I would find a mandatory vacation to be intrusively big-brotherish and -- while I can't guarantee I wouldn't work at a place that required it -- it'd be an overall negative in my retention. I'm a fully-formed adult. How about letting me manage my time off?

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> > With this in mind, today we're introducing an unlimited leave policy for new > moms and dads that allows them to _take off as much time as they want during > the first year_ after a child's birth or adoption.

(emphasis mine)

"Unlimited", as in "unlimited data until 1GB". Fascinating. What Netflix calls "unlimited" just means "normal" in a lot of Europe.

</comment><comment><USER35> That seems great. Is there any protection from abuse? It seems that one could say "See you next year" with this and get a year-long vacation.

Is that accurate. Would that actually work? Is there any contract saying you won't take your year off and quit on your last day? OR is this all hinging on you getting a continued workload complete, and not just a year vacation.

<comment><USER36> Having a newborn is not a year long vacation. While it's possible that some employees could abuse a year of maternity/paternity leave by quitting after the one year term, I imagine this move will greatly increase company loyalty amongst new, potential and existing parents.

<comment><USER37> Having a newborn isn't a task put against you. You elected for it. Don't perpetuate the idea that some credit is owed to parents as if it's not a year long vacation.

<comment><USER36> Nowhere did I say it was a task put against you or that something is owed to parents. This is a perk being offered by the company, just like free lunches or monthly team outings.

It's a very attractive perk for couples looking to have a family and will like engender loyalty within that cohort.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> just to reinforce the point: "United States is one of only four countries in the world—along with Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Papua New Guinea—where workers do not have the right to paid maternity leave." How is this possible great USA?

</comment><comment><USER38> In contrast, I hear Amazon has no paternity leave (or maybe its like 2 days or something?)

</comment><comment><USER39> when will there be a 'unlimited' salary?

</comment><comment><USER40> The way this is going to pan out, is that the House Slaves and Tools who love to crab bucket and compete with others will not take any maternity/paternity leave, and politically push out those who would take a reasonable amount of leave.

To be fair, of course the others would still be paid during this, but they will have to move to another company and take a hit in reputation.

So in the end, this is either great news for people with crab bucket mentalities, or for everyone else, a great way to get a year-long severance while finding a better place to work.</comment>