How Silicon Valley Treats a Trump Backer: Peter Thiel - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/20/technology/how-silicon-valley-treats-a-trump-backer-peter-thiel.html?ref=dealbook <comment><USER2> I'm a gay female entrepreneur. I would be happy to work with, or take investment from, Peter Thiel.

I believe Peter Thiel is acting in what he believes to be the country's, or possibly the world's, best interests. I also believe that he's totally wrong. Lots of investors I've enjoyed working with before have been completely off- base about (and made much bigger investments in) major trends I've thought to be implausible, but I've been very happy with their guidance and support nonetheless.

My opinion might be different if he explicitly supported some of the specific insane ramblings the Trump ticket has dished out recently. I'm not willing to work with an investor who wouldn't respect my marriage to my wife, or who doesn't think I deserve equal pay for equal work. But he's not saying those things; he's suggesting that, on balance, the world would be better off with Trump and a Republican presidency than Hillary and a Democratic white house. Heck, he might even be right, time will tell.

Frankly, this whole thing has left me respecting Peter Thiel even more. He knew that the full weight of his peer group would fall on him when he spoke at the RNC and made this very public donation, but he did it anyways. Avoiding the typical VC herd mentality is child's play in comparison.

<comment><USER3> As a counter point, I'm not gay nor female, but an entrepreneur. Hopefully that doesn't lessen my voice.

I lost nearly all respect for Thiel based on his opinions about science vs industry. For reference, his thinking that startups are in any way similar to academia in regards to scientific discovery is completely out there and ignores the obvious reality that startups don't produce scientific knowledge.

His backing of Trump simply reinforces my already poor opinion of him. He's never bothered thinking things through and has always had an arrogant streak where he thinks business beats everything. If you believe he's totally wrong you'd be a fool to work with him.

<comment><USER4> Like you, I don't agree with Pieter Thiel on a lot of issues including his support for Trump. But when you work with him as an entrepreneur, how do his political beliefs, his position on science vs industry matter? If his positions on certain topics go against yours _and_ affects your startup negatively, then it makes sense to not work with him. But deciding not to work with him only because of his opinions does not make sense to me, though it is still your choice. And asking other people not to associate or work with Pieter because you don't agree with him is unreasonable. It's everyone's individual choice.

<comment><USER5> it affects you morally. one could say the same about a pedophile or rapist or racist. let's say someone was all 3 of those but you knew it wouldn't affect the business you do with them. would you do it? this isn't to equate them but it is to see if you argument holds up in an edge case. I don't want to associate with, or have someone benefit from my labor, or even profit from their insights if I have such moral disagreements. but some people don't care about morals at all and only care about profit so to them it may not matter.

<comment><USER4> > one could say the same about a pedophile or rapist or racist.

People who indulge in such activities are clearly breaking the law and should be reported. Pieter supporting Trump is legal!

> I don't want to associate with, or have someone benefit from my labor, or > even profit from their insights if I have such moral disagreements.

So you don't want to associate with half the country? It's your choice, but do you see the importance of letting people have different opinions (as long as they are legally acceptable) and agree to disagree?

<comment><USER5> half the country? first it's only expected voters which is like 40 pct of america. then only around 30 pct of those support trump. so yes i'm fine not associating with 12 pct of people.

<comment><USER6> That's voters. Trump supporters are presumably much higher.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> While this subject matter has been covered to exhaustion in a previous post, I believe it is a very dangerous slippery slope to boycott Peter Thiel. If one ostracizes a person based on their political beliefs (and contributions), then we will need to review every election going back decades. Just a few examples off the top of my head:

1) Woodrow Wilson -- An avowed racist and segregationist

2) Teddy Roosevelt -- Warmonger (War with spain)

3) Franklin Roosevelt -- Fire bombing of Tokyo as retribution for Pearl Harbor, among other major civilian cities (and internment of Japanese Americans).

4) Harry Truman -- Hiroshima and Nagasaki

5) Dwight Eisenhower -- Korean War

6) John F Kennedy -- Getting involved in Vietnam War

7) Lyndon Johnson -- Continuing the War (Gulf of Tonkin)

8) Richard Nixon -- Expanding war to Cambodia

9) Ronald Regan -- Nicaragua, and other smaller wars, bombing of Qaddafi in Libya as well.

10) George H. Bush -- 1st Iraq war

11) Bill Clinton -- Bombing of Serbia, and launching missiles at Tunisia

12) George W Bush -- Afghanistan and Iraq

13) Obama -- Increasing Drone strikes 10x fold.

Many progressives (Noam Chomsky et al) would consider the above actions corresponding to each president as rising to the level of war crimes. Hence, by this logic, anyone that voted for them is equally culpable. That's nonsense!

<comment><USER8> Thanks for bringing up foreign policy!

My impression is that most vocal progressives (even here in Europe) have stopped caring about the big picture in favour of domestic social justice. Killing a million people abroad = normal establishment politics, saying misogynist crap = unique threat to democracy. It boggles the mind.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> "We care deeply about diversity," Mr. Zuckerberg wrote in an internal Facebook post to employees. "That's easy to say when it means standing up for ideas you agree with. It's a lot harder when it means standing up for the rights of people with different viewpoints to say what they care about. That's even more important."

This could not be more on point. I respect Mark Zuckerberg more for saying this. We may not agree with what people say, but we should fight for their right to say it.

<comment><USER10> I agree - up to a certain point. I think Popper has formulated this well[1]:

"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal."

And even below that limit, even if I stand by the right of people to say stupid and irrespectable things, I stand also by _my_ right to argue them that those things are stupid and irrespectable. (This also means that I am quite open to discuss why this view is wrong. One a bit uncomfortable idea is that this way of thinking may increase polarization of the discussion/society, which is about the last thing we need.)

[1] [https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Karl_Popper](https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Karl_Popper)

<comment><USER11> That quote from Popper is straight-up idealist non-sense. The problems I see are:

1\. Popper assumes that tolerant and intolerant ideas are easily distinguishable, not intermingled, and that there exists some sort of undisputed authority to make the distinction. Example: one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

2\. Suppression of "intolerance" excuse has often been abused by brutal authoritarians to exercise their power.

3\. Suppression of ideas deemed "intolerant" often dismisses real underlying issues. For example, some "racist ideas" in this us election cycle are rooted in the fact that there are real "losers" in globalization. It's a lot easier to dismiss someone as a racist than it is to understand and emphasize with where these feelings are actually coming from and try to fix the issue. I believe that racism is more often that not, the symptom of real problems.

<comment><USER10> 1\. I do not think that the precise distinction of tolerant and intolerant ideas was Popper's point. His point was that there _exists_ so intolerant ideas that a tolerant society must be ready to suppress them. Obviously where the precise limit for intolerance in practice is, is a question of ongoing and endless discussion and not a question with easy and clear-cut answer.

2\. Brutal authoritarians have also used elections countless times as an excuse to exercise their power. I do not think that makes democracy and elections "idealist non-sense".

3\. Does it not make more sense to address the real underlying issues than tolerate bigotry and racism? I would prefer those would be kept separate issues, but to my (obviously tolerant) eyes, it seems more like there are people who really think that intolerance, bigotry and racism are a _solution_ to the underlying problems.

<comment><USER11> > I would prefer those would be kept separate issues

Wouldn't we all! But unfortunately that's not how the real world works. I think you dismissed my point though...

For example, when someone says "build a wall," it's easy just to say "you're racist and hate mexicans." But if you actually let that idea play out, you'll see it's not really about disliking mexicans, it's a response to drug problems in the US, security issues, and an economy that has failed millions (while still succeeding on the whole). I don't doubt there are some pure racist chanting "build a wall" as well, but they are in the minority (no pun intended) and if you actually fix the above concerns a lot less people would be shouting "build a wall".

But my point is, you have to let that "racist" idea be heard to understand the problem before you dismiss it as an "ignorant solution." Again, I believe racism is more often the symptom, than the problem itself.

<comment><USER10> > But my point is, you have to let that "racist" idea be heard to understand > the problem before you dismiss it as an "ignorant solution."

But that is more or less precisely what Popper says:

"I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise."

Rational argument (in my opinion) here is _exactly_ what you say, racism is typically the symptom, and not the problem, and the problem needs to be solved. But that does not imply that we should somehow applaud racism and bigotry as free speech. And we need to say to the people who claim that racism and bigotry is the solution to the problem that they are wrong and their racism and bigotry is unacceptable. If we want to live in a tolerant society, that is.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Here's the part I don't understand: Peter Thiel has been a high-profile supporter of Trump for a long time, long after Trump publicly said and did the things that make many people see his candidacy as an existential threat to American democracy.

I don't recall any Silicon Valley lynch mobs forming in all that time.

Nor was there much noise about Thiel's support after the sexual-assualt-brag tape was released.

It's only when he _gives money_ that people are up in (very virtual) arms.

Either Thiel's support for Trump makes him a toxic partner, or it doesn't. If it does, and you just started acting on that recently, then please forgive me for suspecting you may be an opportunist.

[edit: speling]

<comment><USER13> Quite right. $1.25 million may very well be a drop in the bucket in comparison to appearing on stage at the Republican National Convention. That in-person appeal to Trump, I think, is much more problematic. Yet it has not generated a fraction of the outrage a campaign contribution has. So I'll charge Silicon Valley is obsessed with money. Big news there.

Anyone who hasn't bothered to read Thiel's speech at the RNC, should do so because it's the singularly most coherent thing that happened there. The complaints are mostly all valid. The problem is the concomitant judgement that Trump is the solution to the problems, and I think Thiel is utterly tone deaf when he calls the culture wars fake, or that Trump is trying to end them, rather than take advantage of them with ever better dog whistles.

To say Clinton is incompetent and that it's in plain sight, is ridiculous in comparison to 7.5 years of the unaccountable racist lie that the president is not a natural born citizen, and thus illegitimate, even questioned for 5 years after the birth certificate was produced; culminating in tonight's global fiasco of Trump questioning the trustworthiness and legitimacy of the American electoral system, in advance of the election. That this personality would eventually go there, is what has been in plain sight.

The problem Republicans have, this is not limited to Peter Thiel by far, is how to extract themselves from this mess. It is really a triage moment, they have all been damaged by this, it's just a question of how much they try to paper over what has happened, or get dragged down in an irreparable way, i.e. Mike Pence is now irreparably damaged goods, unless of course we are in fact talking about an autocracy, in which case he's in a very good position. Maybe.

Don't like Clinton? Fine. Vote for Eric McMullan, looks like he may very well take Utah. Write in your own name. It is not credible to support a candidate who considers elections a fraud just because he doesn't win.

<comment><USER12> This is just idle speculation but it has occurred to me that Thiel may be in the "burn it down" camp. He's rich enough to probably make it through a bit of depression, anarchy and/or world war unscathed, and maybe reckless enough to yearn for that show.

<comment><USER13> It's completely reasonable to be troubled by the lack of a repudiation, even if it's not appropriate to deduce motive.

I don't think it's reasonable that he wait a week or two to state disagreement with such a complete departure from this norm. Thiel stuck his neck out, on stage, at the RNC. Today Trump is saying he'll accept the outcome _if_ he wins. That is not the same thing as presuming a fair election, and complete willingness to concede if he's the loser. The language proposes, ipso facto the election is not fair, if he does not win.

I do think Democrats can overstate their position by suggesting its so easy to challenge electoral outcome legitimacy with one candidate's bullshit rhetoric, however. For all its warts, the president is not directly elected, it's the electoral college that certifies the winner on Dec 19.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> All those people trying to push/shame/blackmail YC (and others) into severing ties with Thiel are in my opinion worse than Thiel.

<comment><USER15> This tired argument is based upon the assumption that tolerance requires one to tolerate the intolerant. Since the vast majority of progressives reject this, your argument carries no weight.

Drumpf is a racist, misogynistic, Islamophobic, anti-LGBTQ fascist. People who espouse this sort of hatred are fundamentally opposed to the ideas of freedom, equality and diversity upon which this country was founded. Those of us who value the political freedoms of ALL Americans -- including Muslim-Americans, Latinos, and various other groups Drumpf has vilified -- have a responsibility to take a strong stand against that sort of hatred and say no, we won't accept it in our places of work, in our neighborhoods, our places of worship, nor within our political process.

If someone is so attracted to a political process comprised of hate and excluding people based upon the color of their skin or their religious practices, I'd encourage them to move to Russia or Iran. It's 2016, that shit does not work in America anymore, as the Drumpfkins are going to learn on November 8th.

<comment><USER6> That's exactly what tolerance is. Tolerance is defined by accepting those you disagree with. I'm pro gay marriage, that doesn't mean I'm tolerant of it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Let's separate Peter Thiel the businessman and Peter Thiel the political donor. Whatever negative things he does in politics does not detract the achievements he accomplished in business.

Following this belief—which is merely my opinion—people should not be asking his business contacts to explain his political actions. That belongs to the Republican voter base, and how they allowed a candidate such as Donald Trump to be the their presidential candidate in the first place.

All of this publicity seems to be generated for opportunistic causes, where some business people (e.g. Ellen Pao) can feel morally correct even if they're not associated with Thiel.

Edit: Also I find it ironic how people are trying to exclude, if I may use that term, a person criticized for supporting a candidate who is exclusive, under the justification of diversity.

<comment><USER17> > Let's separate Peter Thiel the businessman and Peter Thiel the political > donor. Whatever negative things he does in politics does not detract the > achievements he accomplished in business.

Let's _NOT_ separate them. Thiel is CEO of Palantir and heavily involved in Bilderberg--two institutions which are anathema to what the openness and democratic institutions a lot of us on the Internet stand for.

There are plenty of reasons to oppose Thiel even without the Trump donation.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> _"We can't create a culture that says it cares about diversity and then excludes almost half the country because they back a political candidate," [Zuckerberg] wrote._

I'm very relieved to hear this.

</comment><comment><USER19> > "We can't create a culture that says it cares about diversity and then > excludes almost half the country because they back a political candidate."

In March 1933 half of Germany voted for Hitler's party[1]. Would Zuckerberg's statement stand in that scenario as well?

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_March...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_March_1933)

<comment><USER20> In 2003, 15000 Baath Party members were dismissed from their posts in Iraqi government ministries because of their 'evil' political affiliation.

Within two years 9000 of them had been rehired to try to repair the damage that their dismissal had caused.

Sometimes one just has to be pragmatic and put subjective opinion aside. Such tolerance doesn't equate to approval.

<comment><USER19> I don't think there's any ambiguity that Peter Thiel, the subject of this article, is approving Trump, and not just tolerating him.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> >Earlier this week, Ellen Pao, the head of Project Include, an organization that is trying to increase diversity in the tech industry's work force, said her group was severing ties with Y Combinator because of Mr. Thiel's involvement.

Isn't this the same person that went on a fishing campaign for free money from her employer under the guise of sexism? IIRC it was shot down by the courts and Y Combinator should have severed ties with her then since false accusations do much worse damage to the fight for equality than doing nothing at all.

Where is the outrage over YC associating with her?

<comment><USER22> > free money from her employer under the guise of sexism

That's a misrepresentation and a half...

<comment><USER21> It's what the court decided.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Freedom works both ways. He's free to voice his opinions and back it with money. We are free to ostracise him if we find those opinions horrifying.

</comment><comment><USER23> Maybe it just illustrates that tolerance is a sham and one ideology will conquer the others.

</comment><comment><USER24> Googling this article title shows the article excerpt. But opening the search result shows a login dialog. Isn't this against Google's SEO rules?

<comment><AUTHOR> I didn't have the same experience, although I am using a couple AdBlockers. You might have a cookie already on your browser to trigger that login modal. There's also a possibility a major publisher like the NYT is trying to close that Google loophole.

<comment><USER24> Thanks for the tip! You were right about the cookie. Clearing browser history got me 10 free articles, additional googled links showed the dialog again.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Nytimes asks me to login to read the article.

Edit: Opening the web link in a private window allowed me to read the article. Thanks.

<comment><USER25> Click web above and you can read it.

<comment><USER14> And if that doesn't work shift-ctrl-p, then web</comment></comment></comment>


Chrome will clamp down on sites with annoying video ads - <AUTHOR> https://www.engadget.com/2020/02/05/chrome-video-advertising-standards/ <comment><AUTHOR> > _Google has been attempting to block annoying video ads for years. The goal > is to filter out the most noxious offenders so that users don 't resort to > ad blockers, which hurt overall revenue. Since 2018, Google says it has seen > ad blocking rates in North America and Europe drop significantly in Chrome, > and it hopes the new ad standards will reduce ad blocking even more._

Just when you thought Google was acting benevolently...

<comment><USER2> Seems like Monday.com and Grammarly will have no other choice than buying from YouTube. Interesting, these are not considered annoying

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Surely youtube will be high up on the list.

<comment><AUTHOR> I hate that autoplay-next-video is enabled by default, which means that if you use incognito windows then you're always racing to hit the cancel button before the next video starts (2 seconds later?).

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> this will be the nail in the anti-trust coffin</comment>


Ask HN: Nuclear propulsion - <AUTHOR> Since the russians created a nuclear rocket, there is no reason to build the conventional propulsion for the interplantary flights anymore.<p>Does it mean the BFR plans of Elon Musk are just the waste of time and money? <comment> maze-le This is not a propulsion system for space flight. The russians hava claimed to have invented a nuclear ramjet engine. This is a huge difference, because a jet engine still needs air to run. There was a similiar project in the US in the 60ies called Project Pluto. It was abandoned, since it it would have devastated all land within its flightpath, by radiation and its supersonic shockwave. A system like this is only feasible as alternative to ICBMs, in the case of a total nuclear war. A high speed flight system inside the Atmosphere is harder to detect and to defend against.

</comment><comment><USER2> Don't take every official announcement of any country at face value. Let's wait until the launch a geostationary satellite with the nuclear rocket before canceling the current plans.

[IIUC it's a missile that use the nuclear power to heat/accelerate the air. I guess it can be adapted to space with some tank with a gas to heat/accelerate, but I'm not a rocket scientist.]</comment>


Wikileaks just released dump of files - <AUTHOR> https://file.wikileaks.org/file/ <comment><USER2> Title is wrong. OP just learned about file.wikileaks.org that has existed for years.

>Note: [https://file.wikileaks.org/](https://file.wikileaks.org/) is not a release, insurance dump, or response to Assange's arrest. It is the page where published documents are available for bulk download so that people can create mirrors, access publications offline, or use the raw data. It has existed for years.

[https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1117123131804737541](https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1117123131804737541)

<comment><AUTHOR> I apologise. I on more than one occasion today saw information that said this was a fresh dump.</comment></comment>


Chrome OS - When pull is better than push - <AUTHOR> http://lmframework.com/blog/2009/07/chrome

<comment><USER2> _Even if a user knows that you can't put a 'person' into a folder containing 'places', the operating system doesn't – it's just data_

I think there is a major innovation to be had here. currently tagging is just used to make searching for files you've saved easier. i envision a system where the software knows how certain tags interact (and learns new ways via usage) and suggests connections for you. think of the netflix algorithm, but working to suggest ways to automatically organize your data on your desktop.

<comment><AUTHOR> I was thinking more in terms of an open semantic dictionary containing the top-level concepts most often used by SN and business.

The key point is that it should be open to all applications.

<comment><USER2> which is why I think it would only be implementable at the OS level. without universal integration the usefulness drops off too quickly.

<comment><AUTHOR> But that was the whole point of the post! The OS is no longer the platform - the browser is. We both seem to agree on the need for an open interoperability layer - we just don't seem to agree on where it should go :-)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Google OS is not about allowing people to do things they couldn't do before on the web, it's about removing friction from getting online. Google has many other initiatives to make a better Web - like NaCl. Semantic web is obviously not on their priority list, maybe because they are evil, but more likely because they don't think that vision could work.

<comment><AUTHOR> The semantic aspect was only a part of a wider notion of an interoperability layer which can be rolled-out whilst the 'web platform' is still in its formative phase.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Article Summary: Not much is known about Chrome OS, speculation follows with criticism of Chrome OS being the wrong tactic despite not knowing what Google's angle is with Chrome OS yet.

<comment><AUTHOR> One of the key points of the post is that the browser is the platform, not the OS - so, regardless of the specific details of Chrome OS, it can't do much to improve the platform.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Summary: Instead of making the first web operating system, Google should have made the idealized semantic web.

<comment><AUTHOR> That's a bit off base, and Google is not making a web OS.

What was wrong with the original summary: instead of pushing users into using web apps, big G should pull them in with better ones?

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Innovation is welcome in any front.

If they decide to design an electric roadster, I'll support them even if Tesla complains with a barrage of payperpost.

Kudos to Google.</comment>


Show HN: One Walk A Day – demonstrate its your only walk today - <AUTHOR> https://apps.apple.com/us/app/one-walk-a-day/id1504931776?ls=1 <comment><USER2> thanks for doing this... I made something in the same veins (privacy-friendly) to avoid overspending time away from home.

[https://evergreen-labs.com/index.html#features3-c](https://evergreen- labs.com/index.html#features3-c)

Android version has been approved; waiting for iOS AppStore review completion.

#StayHomeSaveLives</comment>


Worries Mount Over Drone Safety After Venezuela Attack - <AUTHOR> https://www.wsj.com/articles/worries-mount-over-drone-safety-after-venezuela-attack-1533601121 <comment><USER3> Frankly I'm amazed that it's taken so long for someone to try something like this. Drone tech has been available to any halfway competent hobbyist for over a decade and you can now buy very, very capable machines off-the-shelf.

</comment><comment><USER4> I'm slightly surprised that it took this long for someone to try a drone assasination of a public figure. Drones have already been weaponised in Syria.

Of course, there are at least three competing suspects for this one - Colombia, Venezuela itself (false flag or internal opposition), or the CIA.

Edit: for "drone" read "quadcopter or similar multirotor electrically propelled craft"

<comment><USER5> The US military has been using drones to kill people for decades.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Atomics_MQ-1_Predator](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Atomics_MQ-1_Predator)

<comment><USER6> They're referring to the use of an inexpensive, commonly available drone, not a four million dollar weapon.

<comment><USER7> I think theandrewbailey is maybe talking about the relatively low likelihood that the CIA would use a cheap and ineffective drone to assassinate a South American leader. Especially when there are so many more clean ways to do so.

I think a few years back a whole slew of South American leaders came down with cancer for instance. Not that the CIA was behind that, it may have been coincidence and happenstance, but you get the idea. When you decide you need someone dead, then you need them dead. You can't " _miss_ ". I don't think it likely at all that the CIA would do something so ham-handed as using a hobbyist drone to attempt an assassination.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Bypass Paywalls is the extension you are looking for.

[https://addons.mozilla.org/en- US/firefox/addon/bypasspaywall...](https://addons.mozilla.org/en- US/firefox/addon/bypasspaywalls/?src=recommended)

</comment><comment><USER9> [https://facebook.com/l.php?u=https://www.wsj.com/articles/wo...](https://facebook.com/l.php?u=https://www.wsj.com/articles/worries- mount-over-drone-safety-after-venezuela-attack-1533601121)

<comment><USER10> That didn't work (I didn't log into facebook)

<comment><USER9> Are you using something like noscript or a referrer blocking addon?

<comment><USER10> Yes- uBlock origin. Does that screw things up?

<comment><USER9> strange. I use ublock and it works fine for me.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Paywall, no thanks.

<comment><USER12> I feel like there is a pretty long established history of wsj paywall articles being ok to make the FP.

<comment><USER13> But they aren't fluff pieces. I want to read this one. If it keeps happening enough, I'll pay to read good stuff. For me it's not even about the money - <USER2> it's once in a blue moon it's not worth my time to figure out how to pay.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Oh god, I bet the crazy US govt is gonna ban drones instead of firearms.

<comment><USER15> Guns are not the problem. Crazy people are the problem. Same applies to drones

<comment><USER16> I have read your comment and the parrent 4 times in 4 different ways. Can we please get some clefication.

1) Parent is anti-gun and thinks US Gov is crazy because they would ban drones before banning guns when guns are actually killing people. And you are pro-gun and think it is actually crazy to to ban firearms. Thus you both disagree, and are now mortal enemies.

2) Parent is anti-gun and thinks US Gove is crazy because they would ban drones before banning guns when guns are actually killing people. And you are anti-gun and make your comment in a attempt of sarcastic humor. Thus you both agree, and can now be friends for ever.

3) Parent is pro-gun and thinks the US Gov is crazy because they would ban drones and consider banning guns because people kill people, not drones, or guns. And you are pro-gun and think its actually crazy to ban firearms.Thus you both disagree, and are now mortal enemies.

4) Parent is pro-gun and thinks the US Gov is crazy because they would ban drones and consider banning guns because people kill people, not drones, or guns. And you are pro-gun and make your comment in a attempt of sarcastic humor. Thus you both agree, and can now be friends for ever.

In any case this thread is confusing af. Please fix.

<comment><USER16> Thanks, now if the parent can please clarify, and if found to be #4 mods can swiftly remove the flame war sure to come of this.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Article seems to be behind a paywall :(

Still, the first thing that came to mind when hearing of this attack was the "slaughterbots" video ( [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slaughterbots](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slaughterbots) )

</comment><comment><USER18> Too bad it failed if it was a real attack. They didn't even manage to rip the umbrella: [https://twitter.com/nukestrat/status/1026564955087228928](https://twitter.com/nukestrat/status/1026564955087228928)

<comment><USER8> Extrajudicial killings and assassination attempts rarely help democracy. Quite the contrary they are the perfect environment for strongmen to grab and consolidate power. Look at the Erdogan coup, the burning of the Reichstag, the Arab revolutions that turned violent, the rise of ISIS in destabilized areas, the violent history of postcolonial Africa and so on.

What makes Maduro possible is a political system that even has a strong popular component. If you remove the exponent, that system will produce another even stronger strongman, poised to "defend" the country.

<comment><USER18> I think you are overestimating the predictive power of the cited historical events.

Whether or not killing Maduro would bring back democracy is irrelevant, the bottom line is if people like Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin were removed from power earlier in their lines it's reasonable to imagine that tens of millions fewer people would have suffered and died.

Maduro hasn't quite reached the level of those despots yet but his removal from power would certainly be a good thing for Venezuela. I've seen pictures of babies starving to death. The guy has turned the entire country into a concentration camp through his ineptitude.

Case in point: The Communist Party of China has ruled the mainland uninterrupted since 1954. Look at the phenomenal progress that's been made since Mao's death in 1976. There's no democracy in China, but different leadership has made a huge difference. There are no more famines in China.

<comment><USER8> > if people like Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin were removed from power earlier

It's a bit ironic that you criticize the predictive power of my examples, then go full time machine to kill known mass murderers before they had the chance to do their deeds.

There is little doubt that killing Hitler would have changed the course of history for the better - as much as alternate historical timelines make any sense in a discussion. The problem we are trying to solve, however, is not "how to use a time machine"; it is preventing future dictatorship without full hindsight of who will turn out to be the dictator. The year is 1933 and a new, 44 year old Chancellor is using political violence as a pretext to suspend democracy. As it would later turn out in this story, democracy matters quite a lot.

<comment><USER18> Wikipedia puts the dates of the holocaust at: 1941–1945; according to a broader definition, 1933–1945

You don't need a time machine. It's a documented fact that people around the world knew by 1942, and some well before then. It's hard to slaughter millions of people without other people finding out about it.

      > The problem we are trying to solve, however, is not "how
      > to use a time machine"; it is preventing future
      > dictatorship without full hindsight of who will turn out
      > to be the dictator.

Nope, I'm just saying that Maduro's gotta go. If you can't figure out that he's a dictator that's on you.

<comment><USER8> So were Saddam and Gaddafi. Their elimination directly led to tens of thousands of preventable civilian deaths and ongoing civil wars. Again, a simplistic world view can lead to trying to solve the wrong problem.

Venezuela is still at the 'restoring democracy by any peaceful means' stage.

<comment><USER18> You don't need to start a war to drone one guy.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Kittydar – Face detection for cats - <AUTHOR> http://harthur.github.com/kittydar/

<comment><USER2> Also check out this project, it is going to be presented at ICML2012 in a couple of weeks:

[http://research.google.com/archive/unsupervised_icml2012.htm...](http://research.google.com/archive/unsupervised_icml2012.html)

they trained a huge neural network with millions of _unlabeled_ frames from Youtube, and derived high-level features. The authors showed that the network learned without supervision the concepts of human face, human body... and _cat_.

<comment><USER3> That work was impressive -- but kind of over the top. From what I can tell, their dataset could at most have been like 2.5TB uncompressed. Their model took 3 days to train on 1000 16 core machines. They called this "inexpensive way to develop features from unlabeled data". Later they point out that their model was "more than an order of magnitude larger than other large networks reported in literature".

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> "kittydar is best at detecting upright cats that are facing forward "

Good luck with getting a cat to do that

<comment><USER5> No one wants to be the person who implements an elaborate system for recognizing cat butts.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Fun idea, but definitely needs more training. It even gets things wrong on the test images (sometimes spectacularly - why those leaves in particular?).

</comment><comment><USER7> Drag and drop in the demo doesn't seem to work for me (Win 7/Chrome 19).

Otherwise, awesome.

<comment><USER8> Ditto for Mac/Safari. There must be something diabolical and/or useful to do with this tech but I'm struggling to come up with a good use case other than 'because kitty'

<comment><USER9> Aside from the earlier mention of 'I want to just let my cat into the house to the exclusion of others' I think it's interesting because if you're not in the computer vision world, you don't see a ton of stories or demos about detecting things other than human faces in pictures.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I tried a few different photos of multiple cats. It'd always get 1 correct positive, but never more than 1 correct positive. In every image's case, it would have multiple false positives in a cat's fur patterns.

Here's one example:

[http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--RBVfn6FzOI/Tq5kOxFGKEI/AAAAAAAACn...](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--RBVfn6FzOI/Tq5kOxFGKEI/AAAAAAAACnM/LaiZLD0sUKY/s1600/cats.jpg)

Neat start, though. I have a particular interest in this subject as I'm entertain schemes that allow our cats into our garage while locking neighborhood cats out. I ran into similar issues with fur patterns during image processing techniques. I'll probably end up relying on a more simple solution: RFID tags attach to their collars.

<comment><USER11> Your cat may already have an RFID tag - they're used in the process of "chipping" cats so that they can be traced if they find themselves at a vet without their owner. If there is one, it'll be on the back of their neck.

<comment><USER12> These tags tend to migrate, particularly in older animals. Shelter workers are trained to check the entire animal as the tags often end up on the animal's side or stomach.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I love how simple the photo uploader is. I'm currently working on a new upload system for my site, does anyone know how compatible a drag and drop system that automatically shows the image like that would be? Does it work in all browsers? IE? It seems to work in all of my browsers but my target users are not very computer savy and usually have IE7, 8 or old computers.

<comment><USER14> Not very. I believe drag/drop file upload doesn't work in IE at _all_. See here for the browser support for a very nice file upload component: [https://github.com/blueimp/jQuery-File- Upload/wiki/Browser-s...](https://github.com/blueimp/jQuery-File- Upload/wiki/Browser-support).

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> The test image with four cats on a "Hello Kitty" rug results in only three cats being detected. The white cat on the far right has it's eyes nearly closed; maybe this is why it wasn't detected?

</comment><comment><USER16> The test images didn't work for me (Firefox 5.0, don't ask). However, saving the test images to my desktop then dragging them in worked fine.

</comment><comment><USER17> Oh no... :(

<http://i.imgur.com/FlPXf.png>

</comment><comment><USER18> I dragged a screenshot of their logo into Kittydar. No cats. Magritte would be pleased.

</comment><comment><USER19> For the curious, the author references this Microsoft paper, "Cat Head Detection - How to Effectively Exploit Shape and Texture Features": <http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/80582/ECCV_CAT_PROC.pdf>

</comment><comment><USER20> It's pretty good at detecting some dog faces too!

</comment><comment><USER21> I freaking love kitty cats!</comment>


Ask PG: May I please have my IP unblocked? - <AUTHOR>

Last night while writing a tool for Hacker News, my test code crawled through several pages of HN in rapid succession, resulting in an IP ban.  I've since changed the test code to wait a while between requests to prevent server strain, but I would like to be able to return to HN on my own machine.  I sent you an email with my IP address.  Thanks in advance. <comment><USER2> I think this is automatic and i was usually unblocked in a few (12ish hours)</comment>


Ask YC: Foreign exchange student wants to incorporate - <AUTHOR>

So one of the dev on our team is a foreign exchange student.
By law, he cannot work for a off-campus corporate
 entity without express permission from DHS.
His country's attache is suggesting that he not receive any equity when we incorporate, and file it as an internship.
(Trust is not an issue for our team regarding equity)
When we incorporate, how should we handle this? <comment><USER2> You need to talk to an immigration lawyer. Equity and employment are two separate issues. There should be no problem in giving him equity, since US law imposes almost no nationality based restrictions on ownership in a company. Getting him to legally work for the company is a different matter, and depends entirely on what visa he has.

</comment><comment><USER3> I have the same question, I am planning to incorporate with an american resident, while I'm a student on F1 status...I wonder if I am legally allowed to be a partner and make profit off something like this.</comment>


A Dyre Warning About Canonizing Encryption - <AUTHOR> http://www.tripwire.com/state-of-security/risk-based-security-for-executives/risk-management/a-dyre-warning-about-canonizing-encryption/#.VGR_LDsqo1k.hackernews <comment><USER2> _"Whatever the ultimate solution, we need to have one. We can't keep treating the client as sacrosanct when attackers are well aware they are the most vulnerable component in the transactional chain."_

I guess she has a point there.

On iOS and OS X, the App Store to some extent already provide additional client protection.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, what about Android though?

<comment><USER2> I must admit I'm not very familiar with Android. I think it can be more unsafe for "regular" users since it's possible to install applications outside of Google Play.

<comment><AUTHOR> Exactly. Would be interesting to know what % of Android apps are malware.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


JSX: XML-like syntax extension to ECMAScript – Draft specification - <AUTHOR> http://facebook.github.io/jsx/ <comment><USER2> Facebook has been doing a lot of work in this area, initially implemented in PHP by Marcel Laverdet in 2010, called XHP[1]. Not only does it permit you to embed conformant HTML into your PHP code without inadvertently introducing XSS vectors, but it also allows you to compose HTML primitives into high-level markup. Stefan Parker has been regularly blogging since 2011 about how Facebook uses XHP in its UI design; one of the best posts on the topic is here[2]. You may also recall the now-defunct "Facebook Lite" which was written completely in XHP.

Laverdet also implemented something similar for node.js called js-xml- literals[3], which I don't think has gained much traction. As for how it's different from E4X, refer to this page[4], which makes the argument that parsing and producing XML are two different tasks; E4X attempts to do both while all of these other approaches focus on producing XML.

(I don't think that this perspective on the history of react.js/jsx has been well-publicized before, hence the post.)

[1]: [https://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-engineering/xhp-a- ne...](https://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-engineering/xhp-a-new-way-to- write-php/294003943919)

[2]: [http://codebeforethehorse.tumblr.com/post/52824249342/buildi...](http://codebeforethehorse.tumblr.com/post/52824249342/building- a-good-ui-framework-with-xhp)

[3]: [https://github.com/laverdet/js-xml- literal](https://github.com/laverdet/js-xml-literal)

[4]: [https://github.com/laverdet/js-xml- literal/wiki/Differences-...](https://github.com/laverdet/js-xml- literal/wiki/Differences-from-E4X)

<comment><USER3> My only quip about this JSX is nomenclature: Oku et. al. at DeNA open-sourced a typed variant of ECMAScript under the exact same name a couple of years earlier: [http://jsx.github.io/](http://jsx.github.io/)

With Facebook's brand and recognition, I am sure this JSX will eclipse the other JSX, which is rather unfortunate.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I think this is a great and well intended effort.

One of the biggest use cases for Javascript is to manipulate and create DOMs. jQuery solved the manipulation part beautifully, but DOM creation remained a hassle. Lots of templating solutions have been attempted, but none of them seem to hit the sweet spot just right (that's a primary reason why there are so many).

JSX is a novel contender that may be just right - even if it's not, it will hopefully push us as a community towards a better solution by offering a very new approach with its own benefits and problems.

Thanks to the peeps at fb for taking the time and effort to make JSX bigger than just reactjs!

</comment><comment><USER5> The example used to demonstrate template literal "syntax noise" in this proposal is an unfair exaggeration, in my opinion.

JSX is handy because it allows authors to think about the hierarchical relationship of components in terms of how they would be laid out in something like HTML. Template literals may not be ideally suited to the JSX case, but they represent a promising "native" solution to the problem JSX tries to solve. I'm always happier when I can leverage something that is native to the language I'm using to solve a problem.

</comment><comment><USER6> Really surprised this doesn't mention my project that implements JSX as a sweet.js reader. It's a much better sweet integration than the one list that forces you to use a very different syntax to use JSX.

[https://github.com/jlongster/jsx-reader](https://github.com/jlongster/jsx- reader)

(Hey React guys... I know you know of my project, what's up with that?)

<comment><USER7> This is a mistake; I think we got it confused with andreypopp's sweet-jsx by mistake.

<comment><USER6> Cool, thanks.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I can't quite see the logic behind a markup syntax for a transpiler to output code that builds other markup.

Can someone with a better understanding explain what the benefit is here? It doesn't seem _easier_ than JS or HTML so I don't understand the point of the abstraction. But I haven't built much on the browser-side in a few years so I am certain I am missing something.

<comment><USER9> In the "perfect world", we would be using LISP, and our code would be data and our data would be code.

We're stuck with JS, so it's convenient to have a declarative syntax that compiles to JS, because nested function calls suck. As the doc states:

> The purpose of this specification is to define a concise and familiar syntax > for defining tree structures with attributes.

This can be used for anything, it has nothing to do with HTML actually. Just like there are many languages and frameworks where you describe UIs with some flavor of XML that compile behind the scenes to API calls to create windows, append buttons, etc.

<comment><USER10> > _In the "perfect world", we would be using LISP, and our code would be data > and our data would be code._

Well, it wouldn't be that perfect, because then we'd be forced to live with that Lisp (lack of) syntax.

<comment><USER11> Well, Lisp has a lot of syntax. It just looks and works different. For example the syntax of IF is:

        if test-form then-form [else-form]

Examples:

        (if foo 1 2)

        (if foo 1)

That means: after IF there are exactly two or three expressions.

LET looks more complicated:

        let ({var | (var [init-form])}*) declaration* form*

Example:

        (let ((foo 10) bar)
           (declare (integer foo))
           (setq bar foo)
           foo)

Note, the notation with parentheses is not the syntax of the Lisp programming language, but of symbolic expressions. The Lisp syntax is defined on top of s-expressions. Not every s-expression is a valid Lisp program.

For example the following are not valid Lisp expressions, but still valid s-expressions:

        (if foo 1 2 (3) (4))

        (let a (declare (integer 10)) 3 + a)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> So..uh...this was a thing. And nobody wanted it. So it was deprecated and killed. See the "Prior Art" section at the bottom of the page.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECMAScript_for_XML](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECMAScript_for_XML)

Brendan Eich was quoted as saying something along the lines of "E4X is crazyland". Parsing it is hard as hell to do right. Think of all the tooling that's out there for JavaScript right now that will either a.) not support JSX code or b.) bloat up beyond belief as it takes into account the suddenly absurd requirements necessary to deal with a similar-but-not-quite-XML-or- even-HTML-for-that-matter syntax. Oh, you want to lint that JavaScript? Bless your heart! You want to add syntax highlighting? Love will find a way. You want to use other static analysis tools, sweet.js macros, or anything else non-trivial? How cute!

So essentially, it's a great way for Facebook to push React.js without making React.js a standard.

<comment><USER13> JSXHint exists[1] and works well, and highlighting libraries exist[2]. Have you actually tried the syntax? It makes sense when used with React.js (which is quite lovely), as almost all of the new syntax exists within a render() function. It's also leaner syntactically than EMCAScript for XML, without introducing additional weirdness like "object.@items" selectors.

Work with both JSX and regular JS in React and you'll see why they're doing this.

[1]: [https://github.com/STRML/JSXHint](https://github.com/STRML/JSXHint)

[2]: [https://github.com/reactjs/sublime- react](https://github.com/reactjs/sublime-react)

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> >Balanced named tags is a critical syntactic feature of the XML-style notation.

I guess there's an argument for everything. But I thought in general, people usually found XML's verbose endings to be noisy and useless. It could always be opt-in, so you only need to add them where needed.

      <start><item>something</>...</start>

      Or you could just add a comment.

</comment><comment><USER15> So, yea I think this is a great thing and I don't mind JSX. It has been a pleasure to use ... I think. I can't help but be reminded about original PHP, though. When PHP was new, you could write PHP but then you could also write your markup in the same file. The end result was a bunch of bad PHP and markup. JSX is not quite is liberal, but it's along the same vein. You kind of have markup in your Javascript, now (I say now, but I guess you did before in some cases where you built DOM elements with JS). Especially with components that also have HTML-literal content in them, like labels and text and stuff. Like, to literally change the text in a form or something, you might have to go edit your Javascript file ... no wait, your JSX file to change that. Javascript is also already enough of a pandoras box, in regards to common patterns and "how to do X or Y." I don't really know how to articulate my thoughts on it yet, but I feel like I lean towards rather not having to look at code with JSX in it than having to do so.

</comment><comment><USER16> Where's the transformation language JSXT? O.o

Why are nearly all the examples pushing literal UI concerns into the code, if not tightly weaving it with the controller?

I see what it is, but I see nothing about why it is - I'm open for understanding. Someone please help.

<comment><USER17> JSX/React is not a controller, it is the view. See the React docs: [http://facebook.github.io/react/](http://facebook.github.io/react/).

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> As much as Facebook's efforts to fix the tools they are forced to use are valliant, this is a little bit ugly. Still, points for trying.

</comment><comment><USER19> There are even alternative syntaxes:

[https://github.com/lantiga/react.hiccup](https://github.com/lantiga/react.hiccup)

[https://github.com/ForbesLindesay/react- jade](https://github.com/ForbesLindesay/react-jade)

<comment><USER20> I have found it easy enough to just use json-serializable literals to represent html, e.g:

        ['div', {id: 'main'},
            ['h1', 'Some title'],
            ['p', 'Some text']]

I wrote a little function to turn this kind of thing into an html string ([https://github.com/twfarland/don](https://github.com/twfarland/don)), but it could also be used as the view descriptor for some kind of view component ala React. Might work on that...

<comment><USER21> I like this a lot. I actually used this at work. With a simple function to translate JSON into DOM incrementally, it's a lot more succinct than JSX. And it's fully programmable in JS.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Somebody please enlighten me as to why this is better than good ol' JSON or XML/SGML/HTML, especially if it's meant to be processed into something else anyway?

<comment><USER17> JSX is transpiled into Javascript (which generates HTML at runtime)- its function in React is basically that of a templating language. JSX also allows inlining Javascript in a limited fashion. I could not imagine a sane implementation using JSON. As for XML and friends, you would have to shoehorn in supporting JS.

<comment><USER22> Thanks, I'd been genuinely curious. (I tend to stay as far away as I can from JS-based templating systems, so that's probably why I didn't appreciate that use case.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Some IDE plugin for this would be nice.

JSX -> JS -> JSX

Just JS gets committed into the repository.

When the developer likes/needs JSX he just uses the JSX like an overlay for a specific code part.

</comment><comment><USER24> Many of the comments seem to be along the lines of "why create a markup syntax to build more markup and throw it in JavaScript" \- In my opinion that's not the real benefit of JSX, but just one use case.

The great thing about JSX is that it doesn't build markup. It doesn't even need to be used for markup, it can be used for anything. It's frequently associated with markup because it has been used alongside React, but JSX standalone is a simple syntactic transform for XML-ish notation to JavaScript.

This is quite convenient in some cases, as you can elegantly write DSL's, where each of the tag names are JavaScript functions - and writing the equivalent JavaScript would look something closer to a lisp (moving the function name to the right of the paren).

This:

      <Database name="business">

          <Column name="id" type='int' length={10} />
          <Column name="first_name" type='string' length={255} />
          <Column name="last_name" type='string' length={255} />
          <Column name="choice" type='enum' values={['a', 'b', 'c']} />

          <Column name="id" type='int' length={10} />
          <Column name="first_name" type='string' length={255} />
          <Column name="last_name" type='string' length={255} />
          <Column name="choice" type='enum' values={['a', 'b', 'c']} />

      </Database>

run through the compiler[1] becomes this:

      Database({name: "business"},
        Table({name: "user"},
          Column({name: "id", type: "int", length: 10}),
          Column({name: "first_name", type: "string", length: 255}),
          Column({name: "last_name", type: "string", length: 255}),
          Column({name: "choice", type: "enum", values: ['a', 'b', 'c']})
        ),
        Table({name: "account"},
          Column({name: "id", type: "int", length: 10}),
          Column({name: "first_name", type: "string", length: 255}),
          Column({name: "last_name", type: "string", length: 255}),
          Column({name: "choice", type: "enum", values: ['a', 'b', 'c']})
        )
      )

I find the first easier to read / reorganize in blocks, which can be useful in lots of situations... definitely not all situations - but having declarative markup while being able to imagine it executing as the latter, constructing actual JS objects with specific logic built in - rather than needing to "parse" the XML tree and deal with an extra step of execution, etc, etc.

[1]: [http://facebook.github.io/react/jsx- compiler.html](http://facebook.github.io/react/jsx-compiler.html)

<comment><USER25> I find the first to be much worse, if for no other reason because of the redundant closing tags.

<comment><USER10> We're not writing for the compiler. For humans, the "redundant" closing tags serve as excellent markers.

<comment><USER26> Still, I'm happy that the days of "ENDIF" are mostly behind us

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> It's always odd to see such an effort against the value of separation of concerns. Facebook's team is heavily invested in the doctrine of PHP of course, so JSX is no surprise.

<comment><AUTHOR> What concerns are you separating exactly?

<comment><USER28> The React website specifically addresses this:

[http://facebook.github.io/react/docs/displaying- data.html#js...](http://facebook.github.io/react/docs/displaying- data.html#jsx-syntax)

 _We strongly believe that components are the right way to separate concerns rather than "templates" and "display logic."_

<comment><USER27> Thanks for the reading. Looks like I fell right into their trap! (With my recent response in this thread: "logic & UI")</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Geo-Dating: OKCupid Adds Location to Mobile App - <AUTHOR> http://mashable.com/2011/07/11/okcupid-location-mobile-app/ <comment><USER2> I wonder if this will steer the mobile users into a more casual hookup niche, a la' Grindr (a gay hookup app), or if there's a market for normal dates that happen spontaneously based on location, without the stigma of implied sex.

<comment><USER3> Maybe, but from my research it appears that the version of the OKC mobile app released a couple of weeks ago is losing them quite a few installs. It was truly a user-hostile release, so any gains they might get from added functionality may be more than offset by the app's sheer unusability.

<comment><USER4> What was hostile about it? I didn't notice any difference.

<comment><USER5> I had been using my iPhone 3G the last two weeks until I had some time to fix my 3GS. The app was terribly slow and sometimes even unresponsive on the 3G, to the point where I found myself using the web app more often than not. Now I am back to using my 3GS and the performance is better on the iPhone app, but I still find myself using the web one more. I like the interface better and it is also what opens when I click to read the rest of the notifications in my email.

As for the location feature, a couple of weeks ago I was put in beta trial for it so I have had some time to look it over and am not too impressed. It is indecent idea, but I would prefer to have conversation and feel the girls out a bit before just meeting up. Also, the girls that have been using the new local feature haven't really been my type and maybe this goes hand in hand with the previous statement.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> It's nice that they're recognizing that sometimes people want to search in a radius that is less than 25 miles (current minimum on the full site). I find it pretty annoying that I have to manually filter out women from South Bay and/or Berkeley when I'm really just looking for women living in the city.

<comment><USER7> I've had some good results by messing with the query string. But only for particular values--last I tried, 5 was often a good number. Dunno if it'd catch people in Berkeley, though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Ever since OKC was bought by Match, I'm seeing a deterioration in the site; and I'm leery of giving any more information to Match. I detest Match, they're a slimy bunch.

<comment><USER3> One of the more aggravating--and possibly predictable--problems with the acquisition has been a huge influx of boring people.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I see great opportunities for the broadcasts idea, especially the part where I can attach a picture that really lets prospective mates know what activities I am interested in.

</comment><comment><USER4> How does one try out this beta app?

<comment><USER10> I have OkCupid App on my iPhone and it automatically updated itself to this beta version.

<comment><USER4> Weird. I see version v2.0.3, and the app store says that too. I tried rebooting the phone and using local wifi.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> G+'s manageable exposure model may threaten the whole online dating arena when opt-in interest groups (Facebook 'page' replacements, possibly co-branded with Google Groups) with geolocation support and event functionality (possibly co- branded with Google Calendar) happen. Discuss.

</comment><comment><USER12> These features are only useful for attractive people that other attractive people want to hang out with.

<comment><USER6> How does that differ from online dating as a whole?</comment></comment>


MPAA is joining W3C - <AUTHOR> https://twitter.com/_AlexDeacon/status/420654695779033088 <comment><USER2> I almost joined Twitter just to give this guy grief. I cannot believe it.</comment>


Today is the centenary of the first transatlantic flight - <AUTHOR> http://www.aviation-history.com/airmen/alcock.htm <comment><USER2> BBC News published good article about the event too: [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/bM5diyl48K/alcock](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/bM5diyl48K/alcock)

</comment><comment><USER3> We are getting to the point where there will be a generation who thinks the 20th century is old history</comment>


IBM's reorg-from-Hell launches next week - <AUTHOR> http://www.cringely.com/2015/01/22/ibms-reorg-hell-launches-next-week/

<comment><USER2> IBM has been reorg-ing itself to death for 15 years (that I'm aware of, probably more). The IBMers I know used to think they were just trying to downplay the perception of downsizing by doing it in rounds and under other organizational shifts.

It's become clear that the company has no direction. The only thing management knows how to do is rearrange the deckchairs on the titanic, so they'll just continue doing that until they sink.

No where is this more clear than in the withered husks of plants still online because somewhere in shutting them down someone realized "oh yeah, this shit makes us money." And keeping the plant operational is contacted out at exorbitant rates, sometimes to the exact same people laid off from that position at that location over a decade ago.

<comment><USER3> A brief glance at the Wikipedia numbers shows that their overall trend was actually not downsizing [1]:

431,212 (2013) 426,751 (2010) 398,455 (2009) 316000 employees 2000

But yeah, it looks like they are in a bit of trouble.

[1] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM) oldid=485226501 oldid=298515890 oldid=356148220

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I used to hold shares in a similar "too big to fail" company. I sold them. A few years later I shorted the company (note: this company is not IBM).

Perhaps it's time to consider shorting IBM.

</comment><comment><USER5> The article has an absolutely astonishing clam if it's true. IBM will eliminate 26% of its employees? That's almost unprecedented for a company of that size.

There are 35 comments under the article, many from insiders. The start of the first comment perhaps sums up why there are so few comments here on HN:

       Why is IBM even relevant enough
       to discuss any more?</comment>


SrsLTE: Open Source 3GPP LTE Library - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/srsLTE/srsLTE <comment><USER2> Can I use this to enumerate LTE base stations? i.e. find Stingrays?

<comment><USER3> Yes. It says "Cell search and synchronization procedure for the UE" under features (UE stands for User Equipment, e.g. a LTE modem).

edit: cell search example [https://github.com/srsLTE/srsLTE/blob/master/srslte/examples...](https://github.com/srsLTE/srsLTE/blob/master/srslte/examples/cell_search.c)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> It's good to see an open source implementation of this, since the closed- source nature of most radio implementations (especially in cell phone basebands) is a serious problem. But I'm a little concerned to see that this is all written in C. While I can see some good reasons for that (easier porting to microcontrollers, for example), the C programming language has a well-deserved reputation for being extremely hard to write securely. Has anyone looked at this closely enough to comment on whether it's likely to hold up against people looking for vulnerabilities, as-is or after some careful auditing?

<comment><USER5> Speed matters. According to the authors of this software "Highly optimized Turbo Decoder available in Intel SSE4.1/AVX (+100 Mbps) and standard C (+25 Mbps)".

Also, a lot of alternatives are just not there. Rust is not mature; today it doesn't "fully" support SIMD. Go requires a runtime, does not support SIMD, and has a penalty for calling C code.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Awesome! Interesting that they're using the USRP, but have opted to use C directly rather than Gnuradio (python). I imagine the performance is pretty good because of this.

Looks awesome, wish I had the time to play with it.

<comment><USER7> A lot of GNU Radio is actually written in C++. Looking at some examples, it seems you don't need Python to create the flow graph either, that can be done in C++.

<comment><USER8> All performance critical stuff is implemented in C++. Python is just for the high-level part.

<comment><USER7> Gotcha, cheers

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> This is very nice to see.

I would note however that the use of the AGPL instead of the GPL here is probably legally meaningless. I wrote about this: [https://www.devever.net/~hl/agplunenforceable](https://www.devever.net/~hl/agplunenforceable)

<comment><AUTHOR> IIRC the extra clauses of the AGPL are triggered on modification of the work (which is restricted to copyright holders and licensees), not on public performance or communicating over the network. So if you are running the exact same version you downloaded, there are no extra provisions. If you patch the code to, say, fix a typo, then you have to distribute the code to network users.

<comment><USER9> This presupposes that modification of a copy of a copyrighted work that one lawfully owns is, in itself (even without subsequent distribution), an act restricted by copyright. I contest this assertion.

Even if it were the case, the permissions granted by the AGPL are not mutually exclusive with any other set of permissions. Dual licencing, for example, is a common practice. Thus, I'd argue one can take advantage of provisions of the AGPL permitting modification, but not rely on it, but instead on the provisions of copyright law itself, to actually execute the software. The AGPL _is not a contract_ , it is a copyright licence; as such, the set of actions you can take for an AGPL-licenced piece of software is by definition a strict superset of the set of actions you can take for "all rights reserved" software.

<comment><AUTHOR> You don't own the work, the copyright holder does.

<comment><USER9> Um, yes. And?

<comment><USER10> Under US copyright law the "preparation of a derivative work" (in this context more or less making a change to the code base) is one of the six exclusive rights under the control of the copyright holder [1].

1\. [https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/106](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/106)</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Using MapReduce to compute PageRank - <AUTHOR> http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/?p=534 <comment><USER2> PageRank is a sparse mat and the eigenvalue can be obtained by multiply itself many times. But how to compute the general eigenvector in parallel? at least the eigenvector of symmetric matrix. It is very important when trying parallel PCA.</comment>


Show HN: Lavagna, an open-source issue/project management tool - <AUTHOR> http://lavagna.io/ <comment><USER2> Contrary to most of the others on this thread I appreciate you're using Java for this. Using Java means drawing upon a very robust foundation. This very much looks like a tool for business rather than personal use.

I can't imagine why a company wouldn't get a proper yet slightly more expensive server with an adequate amount of RAM instead of a vhost that only allows to run PHP, especially as the software itself comes for free and most companies such a tool would be useful for likely already have some sort of dedicated server - either on-prem or hosted - anyway.

Besides, Java often is the only option for deploying tools in larger companies.

I have one question, though: What's your business model with Lavagna? From what I've seen at a cursory glimpse there doesn't seem to be dual-licensing or anything similar (which on the other hand probably wouldn't make sense for a project management tool anyway).

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you for understanding the choice of the language :).

In fact we (3 of us) are all working in a "big" enterprise settings so we kinda know (and suffer sometimes) about the general constraints of deploying external software (it's more probable that a java or dotNet app will be accepted than something built with an exotic stack that require others additional software that nobody is able to operate internally).

Anyway, for running lavagna you don't need a big server, I'm running it on a small (free) 512mb of ram server from openshift _with_ a mysql instance in it! This is a 5usd/month instance at digitalocean.

>What's your business model with Lavagna?

We are developing it in our spare time (I don't work full time so I can do projects like that), so nothing concrete at the moment, we are open for any opportunity.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Can those who 'lost' the post at Java describe what makes it 'lose' them? Curious.

Also, is the implication that the merit of the tool is decided based on your personal liking/disliking for the language it is implemented in? That seems childish! If you are responsible for any decent business, dangerous!

<comment><USER4> Java applications from my experience are simply more hassle to deploy and maintain on Linux servers.

<comment><AUTHOR> That's why I packaged the application in two way:

\- a .war for deploying in a standard 3.0 servlet container

\- a self contained executable war that has a embedded jetty http server

For the self contained option, you only need a working java 7 runtime. I don't think that I can do it simpler than that.

Additionally, if you prefer an even more automated way of updating the software, the application is available on maven central, so you could (as we are currently doing it in our openshift instance) use the maven jetty plugin and select the depedency.

I can't really think of a simpler deploy system. (except statically linked binary, obviously, but there you need to select the correct os :))

edit: we have a docker image for testing purpose too.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I have a few comments on this one

1\. It looks awesome in terms of UI 2\. The webpage looks great and explains everything I wanted to know.

But when I looked at the source code and saw Java I was deeply disappointed.

I use Java a lot, MapReduce, Pig, Storm topologies, I love java but I would never use it on a server.

With every open source project adoption is super important, having Java on the server is a big ask when you want someone to try your project out.

One thing that will help a lot here is if you have a Dockerfile on your repo, this way people can build and deploy it easily. I'd even go as far as creation a chef recipe for it. Those can seem out of scope, but can help a lot.

Anyway, this seems like a solid piece of open source. Awesome

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the feedback.

I admit that I still don't understand why java receive so much hate.

What kind of language would you prefer for a server side application and why?

For this project I've chosen java _because_ it's a boring language, I really don't want to be enabled to write clever code that will be unreadable after few months.

Additionally, with a jvm I've got extremely good libs/tools for developing the application, and when in production a whole heap of monitoring tools.

So uh, sorry for liking the jvm :(.

(And it's not that I know only java, far from it...)

edit: and still, I don't think that requiring a jvm runtime is asking too much. I mean, if you use a managed language, you will need a runtime.

<comment><USER6> Have you considered Go? It makes deployment easier as it statically links everything.

<comment><AUTHOR> I've considered Go, but it does not really fit my criteria:

\- lack of generics (sorry, but even though I kinda like go as a language there are features that I consider mandatory)

\- lack of decent dependency handling (I don't consider vendoring a good solution, with maven central I know that the libraries will be there forever and there is a versioning scheme, pointing to the master branch of a git repo is not a good solution either, I value stability)

\- lack of officially supported sql drivers and libraries like lucene (sorry but I don't really want to depend on a random github repo, it does not give me enough ensurance that it will be mantained)

(And I don't think that a statically linked binary/smaller binary/less memory footprint is a good enough reason to dump the jvm and his ecosystem)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Tried running on my Ubuntu 14.04 server and got the errors below (I have MySQL 5.5, java version 1.7.0_75 and have installed libmysql-java)...

./lavagna.sh: line 54: -Ddatasource.dialect=MYSQL: command not found ./lavagna.sh: line 55: -Ddatasource.url=jdbc:mysql://localhost:3306/lavagna: No such file or directory ./lavagna.sh: line 61: -Ddatasource.username=lavagnauser: command not found

<comment><AUTHOR> I've answered in the github issue [https://github.com/digitalfondue/lavagna/issues/10](https://github.com/digitalfondue/lavagna/issues/10) :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> like everyone else commenting, I despise java. However, I'm already using Trello, and this looks like a near full-replacement, so I'll suck up the extra ram usage and give it a try. thanks!

<comment><AUTHOR> We are dogfooding the program on a small (free) openshift gear which provide only 512 mb of ram (and we have in the same "gear" a mysql instance).

It does not use _that_ much of ram. (And yes, it has a basic trello import functionality).

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Looks cool and interesting. But it's Java so I won't be using it. While it may the right tool it's not something I can easily deploy with low to no overhead.

</comment><comment><USER10> This looks very good. I have been using OpenProject but my users doesn't like it so far.

Is i18n on the roadmap?

<comment><AUTHOR> For the i18n, the basic pieces are already there. I'll provide a guide on how/what is needed to translate the application.

(Probably there are some issues in the gui for RTL languages and for CJK in the full text search support)

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Login with Persona: great, really appreciated!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you, kinda sad that Persona didn't get traction :(

<comment><USER11> I wonder who is to blame: big players too interested in harvesting more data (clearly not thinking about Facebook and Google here), or lazy developers?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Tbh you lost me at java as well...

</comment><comment><USER4> You lost me at Java

<comment><AUTHOR> Not wanting to start a language war, but targeting the jvm give me a good level of confidence that it will work everywhere due to his good backward compatibility.

<comment><USER13> it also means you need your own vps or dedicated server to run that... and usually a pretty beefy one at that. that weeds 90% of your potential demographic out. you might as well as do a saas with something like this. if you want easy to deploy it should be easily deployable on a $5 digital ocean vps or heroku.

<comment><AUTHOR> It use a little bit more of memory than a php application for sure, but it work on a small openshift free "gear" as we are dogfooding there (which is 512mb of ram: [https://www.openshift.com/products/pricing](https://www.openshift.com/products/pricing)) with everything crammed in: jetty + mysql on a single node.

You can follow the guide for openshift here: [http://lavagna.io/help/openshift/](http://lavagna.io/help/openshift/) .

I'll see if the free heroku tier work decently and provide a guide too.

(And yes, it will work on a 5usd digitalocean instance, as it's strictly more powerfull than the free gear from openshift)</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Do you know of an alternative to gmail for business? - <AUTHOR>

Sick of the bad customer service from Google Apps. Multiple incidents incl losing 3 days of email, catch-all address broken for over a week etc. Customer service was totally useless. Upon escalating with engineering(through friends), told that it's a bug and will be fixed in about a week(which is what happened, got fixed on its own in a week).<p>Does anyone have experience using another service for their company email? Price is not a concern, looking for some sort of reliable customer service. <comment><USER2> Microsoft Exchange Online: [http://office.microsoft.com/en- us/exchange/microsoft-exchang...](http://office.microsoft.com/en- us/exchange/microsoft-exchange-online-email-for-business-FX103739072.aspx)

and

Microsoft Exchange: [http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/exchange/microsoft- exchang...](http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/exchange/microsoft-exchange- server-2013-email-for-business-email-server-FX103765014.aspx)

are both very popular.

I've heard people talk about Zoho: [http://www.zoho.com/mail/](http://www.zoho.com/mail/)

<comment><USER3> I use Outlook email for one of the domains I own. So far, no stupid emails (read spam) and things work just fine!

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> [https://lavabit.com/corporate_e_mail.html](https://lavabit.com/corporate_e_mail.html)

</comment><comment><USER5> This looks promising - [http://www.mailpile.is/](http://www.mailpile.is/)

</comment><comment><USER6> Fastmail.fm (Owned by Opera) is excellent.

</comment><comment><USER7> Also the Microsoft one as already mentioned, I think that mail.com is a good one.

</comment><comment><USER8> google does not care about you. John C. Dvorak says he "gets no spam." Might be worth a shot.

[http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2003193,00.asp](http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2003193,00.asp)</comment>


The First Rule of Programming: It's Always Your Fault - <AUTHOR> http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001079.html#endcomments <comment><USER2> The flip side is that if you follow this advice religiously, a disproportionate amount of your time _will_ be spent tracking down bugs that are the fault of the OS, compiler, or (most commonly) framework & libraries. Assume that most bugs are your fault, and you'll end up putting in place mechanisms to catch, find, and fix bugs quickly. Then if you can fix those quickly, the ones that are left are the ones you _didn't_ cause.</comment>


Ask HN: Rate our project: Tweetz.tv, Televize your Twitter - <AUTHOR> http://ape55.com/televized-twitter

<comment><USER2> It'd be nice if you could view the public stream without signing in to twitter.

edit: also I haven't logged in and checked yet, but it'd be neat if you have a trending videos, hot videos, over a few time periods, etc. Maybe by category also if you get the youtube metadata, so [view hot videos in the "news" category in the last day]. Definitely tie into the youtube gdata API if you haven't already.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the feedback axod. That's a really good idea!

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Not sure if you are looking for this kind of feedback, but UI critique: I kept trying to click the light blue text, thinking it was a link. In fact, my assumption was finally validated, but only at the very bottom 'sign in with your Twitter' link.

I also agree, you should just stick the public stream (or an abbreviated version of it) on the front page, there should be no steps required to get a taste of how things works. At the very least, a screenshot of how it looks on the front page...need something to entice me to log in.

Once I logged in though, yes I dig it. I like that you can retweet from within the interface. The UI is simple and works quite well, push that out to the front page!

<comment><USER4> You're right about the link colors, already changed it! About the frontpage, we'll see. We will probably do some A/B testing on this one.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Reading the headline, I thought it would make people read out your tweets on TV.

It's nice but the public stream is pretty much like <http://www.youtube.com/videos?s=pop> \- right? I'm not sure how this is better? and my private stream was kinda empty so perhaps its just me not being your target audience, or my friends not being into video enough!

<comment><AUTHOR> Hi adyitya. Thanks for the feedback. One advantage of the public stream over youtube, is that you can discover new movies and immediately retweet them to your friends. It's actually like twitter's public stream. I think the search in the public stream in Twitter is very powerful and that was our reason to implement this feature. Too bad the MyTV stream doesn't work for you yet. Hopefully this will change soon. It does indeed depend on the people you follow. Thanks for checking tweetz.tv, we're very eager to get feedback. We want to create a useful tool, with these critiques we can make it better! So what do you guys think, do you see value in the public stream?

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Pretty similar to what some of us did nearly 2 years ago:

<http://projects.mvalente.eu/TwitTV/>

\-- MV</comment>


What are the best CRM for Web 2.0 sites ? - <AUTHOR>

Most sites are covering nice Web 2.0 sites but it's very rare to see articles about CRM or good back office support apps. What are the most popular ones used by successful Web 2.0 companies ? <comment><USER2> I use Highrise by 37signals at my company. It's ultra-simple and cheap. Adding records by bcc'ing an email dropbox is really helpful.

<http://www.highrisehq.com>

<comment><AUTHOR> Tks for your comment. Strange that not so much articles about the subject when Web 2.0 companies are run with very low staff and considering huge number of mails. tks</comment></comment>


Trial of the Pyx - <AUTHOR> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_the_Pyx <comment><AUTHOR> See also these articles:

[https://londonist.com/2009/02/inside_the_trial_of_the_pyx](https://londonist.com/2009/02/inside_the_trial_of_the_pyx)

> "Now, don't drop any coins," says genial goldsmith Warren Benbow. "It's > remarkably difficult to find them on this carpet."

[https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/feb/03/britains- coins...](https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/feb/03/britains-coins-go-on- trial-at-ancient-ceremony-trial-pyx)

And this article about the Queen's Remembrancer: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen%27s_Remembrancer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen%27s_Remembrancer)

<comment><USER2> Or for a fictional account, Stephenson's Baroque Cycle. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_System_of_the_World_(novel...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_System_of_the_World_\(novel\)) .</comment></comment>


Microsoft unveils new Edge logo that no longer looks like Internet Explorer - <AUTHOR> https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/2/20944341/microsoft-edge-chromium-browser-logo-icon-wave-surf-new <comment><USER2> Blue firefox? They really need to up their game.

<comment><USER3> Firefox Nightly Logo: [https://www.mozilla.org/media/protocol/img/logos/firefox/bro...](https://www.mozilla.org/media/protocol/img/logos/firefox/browser/nightly/logo-2xl.5fecca883211.png)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> It does look like explorer to me!</comment>


'I'm a creep': Tech boss Dave McClure resigns after harassment claims - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40493518 <comment><USER2> Discussed previously: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14690291](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14690291)

<comment><AUTHOR> Whoops! Sorry, I missed that one</comment></comment>


Mailman: An incoming email processing microframework in Ruby - <AUTHOR> http://blog.titanous.com/post/867488976/mailman-released

<comment><USER2> bad name... as there is a _very_ established project already using the name.. <http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html>

<comment><USER3> Yes. Sorry to say, but this was a huge red flag for me - if the author is apparently unaware of a project that it is that well-known, he has no business writing mail software. (I know that he comments on this very page that he is aware of GNU Mailman...)

<comment><USER2> check the comments on his blog. he knew about it ahead of time and didnt think it was an issue because someone could just google 'ruby mailman'. apparently the idea of encroaching on another project's name never occurred to him as an extremely impolite ( to put it kindly ) thing to do.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'm not sure why everyone's focusing on the name, but this looks like a great project. I was just wishing that something like this existed yesterday, and poof, here it is. Great work! My only suggestion would be to support imap/gmail integration and the like without requiring an extra step such as getmail.

<comment><AUTHOR> Dealing with IMAP is tricky. In order to support it properly, and leave the messages on the server after processing, a list has to be stored on the client. I'd rather leave that to a mature MDA than implement it myself.

However, I will look into providing a easy configuration for Gmail.

<comment><USER4> Sounds great! I'd love to be able to register for a gmail account and then immediately be able to start processing incoming mail.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Wow. When choosing a name for a new project, isn't it standard practice to look for name collisions first -- google it, check freshmeat, apt-cache search, make search in freebsd ports, etc?

<comment><AUTHOR> I knew of GNU Mailman when I chose the name.

<comment><USER5> Hmm, then it's going to look like you're picking a fight (whether or not that's really the case). Get creative with the name, it's more fun anyway. Maybe some HNers can help you out.

<comment><USER6> Mailrb Mailerb ...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Looks a lot like a light version of the Pythonic and much beastlier Lamson (<http://www.lamsonproject.org/>) created by Mr. Shaw.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, it was modeled after Lamson in some ways, but I didn't think that writing yet another mailserver was necessary, and I wanted Rails integration.

<comment><USER8> Interesting. When I wrote my lamson-based daily journaling software, I also found the yet-another-mail-server aspect of Lamson redundant.

The syntax of mailman looks a bit nicer. Good unit tests.

Any example apps?

<comment><USER9> "daily journaling software" - that sounds interesting. Is it available?

<comment><USER8> <http://github.com/quad/stardate>

It's whimsical. It's lamson.

You can demo it by e-mailing firstname.lastname@example.com with your first entry.

It'll kick back a confirmation e-mail. Reply to it.

After that, it'll e-mail you daily. Reply to those with your journal.

<comment><USER9> Thanks - I will give a try.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> <http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Mailman>

Very popular...very well known.

</comment><comment><USER11> Very cool; mail handling is an area where Ruby needs work.

One question: Does it properly quote non-ASCII characters in mail headers? That's been a big pain point for me over the years, which I fixed by being lazy and using Javamail.

Good names for mail gems are hard to come by; my Javamail wrapper for JRuby ended up going through four different names because Mail, Mailer, Postman and Postal were all taken (we finally called the damn thing Postinius).

I'll at least offer my suggestion for a name; what about 'Takkyu'? Takkyubin is a very famous delivery service over here in Japan.

<comment><AUTHOR> It uses the Mail gem to do all the parsing, and I think that it handles non- ASCII just fine.

<http://github.com/mikel/mail/>

<comment><USER11> Ah, RFC2822 is new in the past six months, then. If he's fixed the email address parsing bugs, then I have a lot less work to do now. :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Could you tell us what other similar projects/gems exist in ruby? How is this different or better than them ?

Are you handling gmail accounts, TLS authentication ? Is this 1.9 compliant ?

<comment><AUTHOR> Astrotrain is the only other ruby project I know of: <http://github.com/technoweenie/astrotrain>

Mailman is very lightweight, has Rails integration, and doesn't require a database to store routes (Astrotrain does). Instead, it uses a Sinatra-like DSL to define routes and conditions.

Gmail accounts can be handled using a MDA like getmail and the built-in maildir support in Mailman.

Mailman works fully with 1.8.6, 1.8.7, 1.9.1, 1.9.2, REE and JRuby.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I think the MTA->Maildir->Mailman route is odd; why not go MTA->Mailman directly, like, say, GNU Mailman, maildrop/procmail, or any other mail filter I've ever seen?

<comment><AUTHOR> You can use it as a local MDA/"mail filter" as well. Mailman accepts messages via Standard Input.

I don't recommend this, because you have to load and unload Ruby every time a message comes in. While this may be okay if you only have a few messages coming in, it will quickly become unbearable if you have any sort of volume. This will be even worse if you loading the Rails environment, as it can take several seconds or several tens of seconds, depending on the app size.

Side Note: There are at least three different projects using the name maildrop, and dealing with email, and I figured out which one you were talking about through context very easily.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Astrotrain powers Lighthouse and Tender Support: <http://github.com/technoweenie/astrotrain>

<comment><AUTHOR> I think you'll find that Mailman is much more lightweight (it doesn't require a database and uses Mail, not TMail), and easier to use. Obviously you had very specific requirements when writing Astrotrain, but I'd love it if you'd try Mailman.

<comment><USER14> I've tried mailman, over 10+ years ago.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, I tried it too. I've never been a big fan. Shared passwords for moderation, really?

If people really hate the name, I'll take suggestions, but I tried pretty hard to come up with alternatives already.

Personally I don't think it's a big deal because it's easy enough to search for 'ruby mailman', it's not like we don't have to do it for just about every other project (mustache, integrity, chef, god, etc).

<comment><USER15> Well if there are specific issues on mailman, it will make it that much hard to google for, especially since the other mailman project is similar. Your project name doesn't even make sense... a mailman delivers mail, not route incoming mail.

The one who actually routes/sorts your real-paper mail is probably just called the mail clerk at the post office. The mailman is just the guy who delivers the mail -- hence the name of the 10+ year old project.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Apple's Hardware Team Is Working on Modems That Will Likely Replace Intel - <AUTHOR> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/02/apples-internal-hardware-team-is-working-on-modems-now-likely-to-replace-intel/ <comment><USER2> Tim Cook is so innovative to spot that 7 cents or whatever that Intel is getting per iPhone and spend millions to replace it with something they can make themselves for a few cents cheaper, because they supposedly only pad iPhone prices by several hundred dollars profit.</comment>