Modi Takes a Leap With India's Biggest-Ever Tax Overhaul - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/30/world/asia/india-tax-narendra-modi.html <comment><USER3> Considering the impact of this reform, and the historical messiness of doing something of this scale in India, it is surprising that the govt. even pulled it off.

On the ground in Bangalore, the clock stuck 12 and every retail shop started giving receipts with the simplified tax system. Im sure there will be hiccups ahead but the start looks pretty neat.

The Indian govt. should be given honorary entry to YC. The world's biggest startup is going lean.

<comment><USER4> > even pulled it off.

A retail shop of Bangalore(metropolitan) doesn't speak for entire India. The shop you visited already had a computer/software but ground reality is much different among traders in tier II & III cities.

> The Indian govt. should be given honorary entry to YC. The world's biggest > startup is going lean.

The government face-planted themselves miserably with demonetization experiment. They thought it would be easy to muscle everyone to use electronic payment without understanding the ground realities. The economy is performing below expectations solely due to it and they still haven't disclosed what they have achieved(good) with demonetization.

They could have planned the implementation in stages so that the transition could be done smoother. The same is going to happen with GST. They can be anything but sultans of implementation.

We Indians are so resilient that without traffic signals we adjust, during floods we help each other without expecting the government - so we will be ok eventually. Wish the government cared for its majority of the people instead of catering to elitist alone.

<comment><USER5> > The government face-planted themselves miserably with demonetization > experiment. They thought it would be easy to muscle everyone to use > electronic payment without understanding the ground realities. The economy > is performing below expectations solely due to it and they still haven't > disclosed what they have achieved(good) with demonetization.

You're completely missing the point of demonitization. Modi got elected partly on the promise of doing something about black money and corruption - which is what pulled down the previous government.

Demonitization was basically a way to demonstrate that he was keeping that promise. For months on the end, towns were filled with stories of the corrupt rich desperate trying to get rid of their unaccounted for cash and government officials getting raided.

In other words, it was primarily a political exercise designed to show he will take action if he makes a promise. The vicarious pleasure the common man got hearing about the discomfiture of the corrupt rich I reckon is more than sufficient to get his government re-elected and also give him some slack from people if the GST thing falls flat - given they trust him more due to demonetization.

<comment><USER4> > The vicarious pleasure the common man got hearing about the discomfiture of > the corrupt rich I reckon is more than sufficient to get his government re- > elected

I agree the common man can be easily be fooled by gimmicks and the BJP government is an expert in sugar coating gimmicks. Please read: [http://www.dailyo.in/politics/demonetisation-noteban-six- mon...](http://www.dailyo.in/politics/demonetisation-noteban-six-months- failure-terror-financing-modi/story/1/17139.html)

<comment><USER5> Just to be clear, I think the reduction in currency note availability which has forced a large number of traders, businesses and the unorganized sector to accept bank payments a positive thing and reduced bribes anecdotal well worth the point of growth sacrificed.

I was just outlining that the political rationale is primary.

<comment><USER6> Not one person is doing this. People did temporary hacks like PayTm because they didn't want to take hits on their business.

Today no one. Not one single person is taking cards or PayTm. If you wave a card in front in front of their face they ask you to withdraw cash from the nearby ATM and come. In fact its already a few months since I did a electronic transaction to buy anything near my home.

This whole act achieved nothing at the end.

Your best measure is Police constables, especially the traffic ones. They are back to asking bribes on the street. In Bangalore every 1 km has a police party doing this.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> GST will increase revenues for consuming states and decrease revenue for manufacturing states. The government will compensate the manufacturing rates for the revenue loss. That's how all states agreed to a GST. This difference will ultimately come out from tax payers pockets. Basically, the tax payer pays for the government unable to handle compliance.

Anyways, there are many products kept out of the GST purview [0] and therefore, this is like release 0.1a of GST. The idea that it will spur economic growth with the projections given is an exaggeration.

[0] [http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/gst-adding-to- econo...](http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/gst-adding-to-economic- growth-is-rubbish-says-niti-aayog-s-debroy/story-n6cluC7L2wxhZK1kINN52I.html)

<comment><USER8> Looking at the article seems more like a 0.7 version, not 0.1. Also, sometimes it's important to make a release and patch it later

<comment><USER9> > sometimes it's important to make a release and patch it later

Yeah, the trick is to know when these "sometimes" are. For example, the "move fast break things" rule was applied for India's biometric unique ID card which resulted in people climbing trees to authenticate their cards to get their daily food [0], not allowing access to power/education/daily benefits [1] or transferring benefits to someone else due to errors and fighting to get your daily wages because of "system errors" [2].

Life is not software. There are some releases which you cannot patch.

[0] [http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/need-internet-to- bu...](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/need-internet-to-buy-pds- rations-go-climb-a-tree/articleshow/57437975.cms)

[1] [https://scroll.in/article/834418/by-making-aadhaar- mandatory...](https://scroll.in/article/834418/by-making-aadhaar-mandatory- delhis-government-schools-are-shutting-their-doors-to-migrant-children)

[2] [https://scroll.in/article/833487/aadhaar-trouble-how-a- woman...](https://scroll.in/article/833487/aadhaar-trouble-how-a-womans-wages- under-mgnrega-were-transferred-to-someone-elses-account)

<comment><USER5> I think you might not have a context of living in India.

Before Aadhar, these benefits would disappear due to corruption even before reaching the needy while with Aadhar, millions of people have suddenly got bank accounts and get direct Benefits transfer from the government.

The other context you might miss is that in general, the top rung of the civil service cadre is generally fairly competent (they're recruited from extremely competitive examinations, and in general not promoted from below). It's on them to generally take decisions on ground when intent and process don't match in things like GST rollout. I'm fairly certain they'll try to do their best to avoid adverse headlines.

<comment><USER9> > I think you might not have a context of living in India.

Curious - What would make you think so?

> Before Aadhar, these benefits would disappear due to corruption even before > reaching the needy while with Aadhar, millions of people have suddenly got > bank accounts and get direct Benefits transfer from the government.

You are mixing up many things here. Bank accounts have got nothing to do with Aadhar. Bank accounts don't mean much when you do not have meaningful access. There is a digital and banking divide in India which the person who has Internet access find it difficult to understand. Once you read RBI's Financial Inclusion report you'd understand why.

Benefits via Aadhar have been grossly overstated - there has been a recent filing in the court regarding this.

> I'm fairly certain they'll try to do their best to avoid adverse headlines.

I'm fairly certain given the responses by people who control Aadhar - <USER2> wouldn't be addressed. Heck, Aadhar is passed as a "Finance Bill" when it clearly is not.

<comment><USER10> > Bank accounts don't mean much when you do not have meaningful access.

For decades people have been saying that the money from grants/subsidies/schemes for poor vanishes between the government and the recipient due to the multiple "middlemen" involved and cutting that out is the way to solve it. Now that is also not the acceptable solution? Then what is the solution that falls under the category of "meaningful access"?

> There is a digital and banking divide in India which the person who has > Internet access find it difficult to understand.

Yes there is a digital divide but what does having bank accounts got to do with it? Computer illiterate people have been going to banks for decades.

> Benefits via Aadhar have been grossly overstated - there has been a recent > filing in the court regarding this

The idea of Aadhar is to have an identifier like a social security number. It is not a unique idea and Aadhar is not the only way to do it. But the idea itself has merits - especially for financial transactions. So many of transactions in India have been hidden from the taxman because there was lack of the necessary setup to link/consolidate flow of money to a person/business. Aadhar + increased digitisation and reduction in (mainly high value) cash transactions makes tax evasion more difficult. If this idea doesn't have merit then what is your proposal?

These are things that are being done to address decades long problems and obviously that won't be perfect. If you have suggestions for improvements/alternative solutions, then feel free to list them. All I'm seeing is criticism without any suggestions.

<comment><USER9> > For decades people have been saying that the money from > grants/subsidies/schemes for poor vanishes between the government and the > recipient due to the multiple "middlemen" involved and cutting that out is > the way to solve it. Now that is also not the acceptable solution?

Yes cutting the middleman is the solution but there are various ways of cutting the middleman. The onus is on the people who support it to show that Aadhar indeed cuts the middleman and improves the said goal.

> Then what is the solution that falls under the category of "meaningful > access"?

The parent comment attributed Aadhar to opening of bank accounts. I responded by saying that opening of bank accounts is not a good proxy for meaningful access to bank accounts. There's a difference.

> Yes there is a digital divide but what does having bank accounts got to do > with it? Computer illiterate people have been going to banks for decades.

That was exactly the point, I asked. What has Aadhar got to do with bank accounts?

> The idea of Aadhar is to have an identifier like a social security number.

Yeah - except that Aadhar is not anything like SSN.

[https://cis-india.org/internet-governance/blog/aadhaar-vs-so...](https://cis- india.org/internet-governance/blog/aadhaar-vs-social-security-number)

[https://scroll.in/article/823570/despite-the-comparisons- ind...](https://scroll.in/article/823570/despite-the-comparisons-indias- aadhaar-project-is-nothing-like-americas-social-security-number)

> So many of transactions in India have been hidden from the taxman because > there was lack of the necessary setup to link/consolidate flow of money to a > person/business. Aadhar + increased digitisation and reduction in (mainly > high value) cash transactions makes tax evasion more difficult. If this idea > doesn't have merit then what is your proposal?

The same way it is been done in all other countries without a biometric ID card.

> If you have suggestions for improvements/alternative solutions, then feel > free to list them. All I'm seeing is criticism without any suggestions.

An inherent flawed idea can't be made perfect. More reading on why : [http://www.lse.ac.uk/management/research/identityproject/](http://www.lse.ac.uk/management/research/identityproject/)

<comment><USER10> > Yeah - except that Aadhar is not anything like SSN.

Ok so there are differences between Aadhar and SSN - it is a different system, uses biometrics and has other differences. Just being different doesn't make it bad.

> The same way it is been done in all other countries without a biometric ID > card.

And which of all those "other countries" is a developing nation, the size of India, with an endemic corruption issue and socio-economic challenges? What is the solution that worked in those countries you allude to, that would work for India?

> An inherent flawed idea can't be made perfect. More reading on why : > [http://www.lse.ac.uk/management/research/identityproject/](http://www.lse.ac.uk/management/research/identityproject/)

I went through the links on this page - half of them result in "page not found". Anyway, reading this gave me the impression of it being in context of UK. So I read this article about UK abolishing its national identity register[1]. The main takeaways seem to be that there were privacy concerns and they saved a good lot of cash. Frankly, with a country with a massive problem of corruption and huge amount of hidden transactions (none of which UK suffers from to the same degree as far as I know), I am (and I think Indian government is), more concerned about expanding the tax net and capturing lost revenue. Regarding the concerns about biometrics, we have had tons of schemes on which the corrupt middlemen have collected funds due to the poor. When the poor guy went to the disbursement office to collect the grants, he was shown a register where somebody had already signed and collected the funds. Biometrics avoids cases of impersonation and bank account helps direct credit of funds. I didn't see any alternative solution mentioned in the links you provided so if you have anything concrete, feel free to share.

[1]: [https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/may/27/theresa- may...](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/may/27/theresa-may- scrapping-id-cards)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> First of all legwork for GST was done by previous UPA government. Modi to his credit has done the diplomatic work to get states ratify the same. And give where credit is due - It is the states with 2/3rd votes in the GST council that did the final negotiations and got GST a success and made uniform tax across the country a reality. The IT infra is woefully inadequate - I expect the pain to last at least 2 years till adequate infra is created by govt and enterprises and till then manual accountants would have huge job opportunity. In the short term we will see a marginal contraction of the economy due to high compliance costs and readjustments in the value chains.

In a way GST will also pave way for higher tax sharing between centre and states and shall strengthen federalism - income tax sharing is the next in line. And slowly India shall become a union of states as it should have been.

<comment><USER12> The Centre already shared its revenues from all Central taxes, including income taxes with the States before this reform. They shared 32% earlier and increased that to 42% just before GST. Centralising all taxation isn't necessarily a good thing, at least not for all states. Before GST, taxes were levied at the point of manufacture. This helped states with strong manufacturing bases to raise revenue and set up infrastructure and encourage even more manufacturing. A virtuous cycle. States could be mostly self sufficient, using Central funds to augment their money.

If the Centre collected all the revenues, the states would be entirely dependent on the Centre. Sure, 42% of the revenue needs to be shared with the states, but the proportion is at the Centre's discretion. I would expect that the party in power at the Centre would funnel funds towards states which are electorally important (UP, Maharashtra) and away from ones that don't play much of a role in national politics (TN, North Eastern states). That's great if you live in UP, not so much if you're Tamil. In such a situation, I foresee that it could actually fuel resentment in states from where wealth is taken and cause the Union to weaken. We see this happening in Catalonia in Spain, for example.

I agree with everything else that you said, that there will be short term contraction but this simplified tax code will be helpful for businesses in the long run. Simplifying it even further and making it a central tax only would be a boon for businesses, but possibly not for the Union.

<comment><USER11> Sharing at centre's discretion is not enough. I am talking about separate State and Central Income Tax as in several federal democracies. It is an idea whose time shall come sooner than later.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> EU, take note. To me the premise is absolutely true: Further unifying the market will spur growth. European start-ups starting in Europe instead of their tiny home country will be a much bigger competition to their US counterparts, which at the moment can often easily crush them, because they already have conquered their rich, big and English speaking home market.

<comment><USER14> What? It's not exactly VAT rules that are making it hard to expand your business across countries in the EU, it's language and culture barriers.

<comment><USER15> If you sell goods or services online then the different VAT rules becomes a hard problem once you reach the scale where your EU sales are more than a trickle but not large enough to have a presence in each country. This is quite a big part of online commerce.

<comment><USER16> I do not think it is a problem. When ordering from a shop, you pay VAT of the country of origin and you won't be taxed in your own when the product arrives. Of course, if the seller tried a little bit harder, they can charge you the tax of your own country and reap the profits.

<comment><USER15> > you pay VAT of the country of origin and you won't be taxed in your own

No, this is the whole problem. If the total sales volume to the buyer's country is under a certain limit the above holds true. When you reach the sales limit for that country, the seller is responsible for applying that country's VAT instead, and annually clear VAT with the respective tax office.

As you can imagine, keeping track of all these things can quickly become tricky. Not business ending tricky but hard enough to become a problem. A consumer should be presented with prices including tax to avoid surprises, but now prices have to be adjusted at the order stage.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> It's funny how it is being hailed as Modi's achievement, while during last govt he and his party were one of the major roadblocks to the rollout of GST.

</comment><comment><USER18> High time for unified EU VAT, otherwise we will stay behind. VATMESS and lack of unified digital market rules is what keeps cross-EU online business tough.

<comment><USER14> Agree, the recent change to charge VAT depending on the location of the buyer is pure hell to deal with. As a EU business, I really don't want to have to figure out where in the EU my customers are, and adjust the price according to whatever their country's VAT rates are this month.

<comment><USER19> It is somewhat necessary, to solve the problem of Amazon, Google, Apple and others selling everything via low-VAT countries like Luxembourg.

But there would have been ways to make it much less painful to manage for small online businesses. For example a revenue limit (like 1M EUR) on cross- border sales before you have to start dealing with each country, or just an unified EU-wide VAT rate.

<comment><USER20> Why is selling from low VAT countries a problem? VAT is only one of many potential government revenue sources.

<comment><USER19> VAT is just one source, but at 15-20% of government revenue, it is an important source. Most of it will be generated by business that physically happens in the country, and is unambiguously taxed there, but more and more of business is moving online.

Selling from low-VAT countries is a problem because it is a fictional accounting move. If you buy a product from Amazon.co.uk, delivered from an UK warehouse to an UK address - or from Amazon.de, delivered from a German warehouse to a German address - then it is still billed through Luxembourg. Even though by all non-accounting measures it is business happening inside the UK and Germany. The only reason for choosing Luxembourg is tax rate optimisation, not because there's an actual place of business there.

It's understandable that most countries in the EU would want to keep taxes on business that happens in their country to themselves. If VAT exists at all, then it makes sense not to gift it to Luxembourg. So the rules were changed to remove this accounting trick.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> In all the talk, I see this as a life time opportunity for freelancers. I remember, in my initial career days, small business owners use to give work of billing softwares to freelancers instead of purchasing of the shelf software.

</comment><comment><USER22> For a great podcast leading up to this, you should listen to

[http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/05/10/527803742/episo...](http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/05/10/527803742/episode-770-when- indias-cash-disappeared-part-one)

[http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/05/12/528181998/episo...](http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/05/12/528181998/episode-771-when- indias-cash-disappeared-part-two)

<comment><USER23> Did not listen to podcast but the summary says that a person named "Anil Bokil" gave idea of demonetisation to PM Modi. This is not confirmed by PM or sources close to PM. It is only "Anil Bokil" who is claiming credit for this policy.

Here is history of demonetisation in India from Wikipedia-

"The Indian government had demonetised bank notes on two prior occasions—once in 1946 and then in 1978—and in both cases, the goal was to combat tax evasion by "black money" held outside the formal economic system.[19] In 1946, the pre-independence government hoped demonetisation would penalise Indian businesses that were concealing the fortunes amassed supplying the Allies in World War II.[19] In 1978, the Janata Party coalition government demonetised banknotes of 1000, 5000 and 10,000 rupees, again in the hopes of curbing counterfeit money and black money.[20]

In 2012, the Central Board of Direct Taxes had recommended against demonetisation, saying in a report that "demonetisation may not be a solution for tackling black money or economy, which is largely held in the form of benami properties, bullion and jewellery."[21][22] According to data from income tax probes, black money holders kept only 6% or less of their wealth as cash, suggesting that targeting this cash would not be a successful strategy.[23]" [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Indian_banknote_demonetis...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Indian_banknote_demonetisation)

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> This implementation is a very hasty one. Go and talk to small-biz-people and you will see the fear and confusion GST instates. Frankly, its scary to me and I have studied quite a bit of tax. Compared to the previous complicated procedures, the new procedures are equally complicated. But these also deviate from previous definitions. And some terms on taxation have changed and have become ambiguous - like the definition of "Supply"

Its like "My manager(Govt) is making us(small-biz) fill status spreadsheets for 2-3 hours out of 8 every day. Why? Just because they can"

And I also worry about the IT infrastructure being implemented for filing these new invoices. The government has some very smart and efficient in house engineers - but we don't know if they made the backbone or if they outsourced it to the likes of TCS/Infy. For one, I have known a TCS tax filing implementation that fails regularly on the last few days of filing - they do some very bad implementations.

I get to talk to some small biz owners here, and very few of them had any clarity on GST as on 30jun. Most of them registered for GST numbers, but know nothing about compliances beyond that. Many don't even use software to create invoices. I got panic calls on "best/good/budget software for GST" on the last day. They didn't know what they needed. Nobody reads the rulebooks and even if they did, it would result into a throbbing headache with no output. So they rely on info from each other and the chartered-accountants who see their business booming.

Could it have been done with less haste? NO! But it could have been done with simpler procedures and a couple of months of education.

Infact, GST will not be a failure - Even if it is complicated, businesses are just used to adhering unnecessary complicated govt policies - they will adjust soon. But GST is hurting many small businesses right now. This will either lead to a bigger and newer black/gray money market - defeating the purpose do demonetization. Or it will make every Indian pro-tech. I'd assign equal probabilities to both outcomes, there is no middle ground now.

What we need to see if it becomes "One nation one tax" or "One nation, 29 taxes"

PS: For the record, I do believe that India has the best PM on this planet. I am a pro-BJP and anti-CONG (and anti-AAP). Please don't associate my criticism with political sides.

<comment><USER25> I don't live in India, but I have an interest in their politics, so I have a question for you:

How can you justify Modi as the best prime minister in the world when he tacitly approves the killings of Muslims? A group he should also be the leader of.

The Hindu extremists are emboldened under his watch. In many areas, India is going backwards under his watch.

He's far from the best in the world. You just haven't bothered to look.

<comment><USER26> Seriously this.

people are getting lynched every week because of stupid cows and Modi's silence condoned that behavior. It was only after coming back from US/Netherlands did he mention anything about it. It's still not acceptable IMO. people should be allowed to eat whatever they want.

He's not the best PM but he has the best PR team in the world.

<comment><USER27> Earlier people were getting blown up now lynched. Some may call it a trade off.

<comment><USER25> Are you implying that the lynching is only of potential bombers? Because that's not true.

Innocent people are the ones being killed with zero consequences for the killers

<comment><USER26> I think he meant pre-Modi people were getting killed in terrorist attacks but now they are getting killed from lynching. A terrible thing to say.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> One of the major problems is multiple tax slabs. For instance, there is a different tax rate for different classes of movie theatre seats or even Air conditioned vs Non-AC restaurants. It will make book-keeping incredibly complicated for certain businesses. It was designed in the interest of maintaining government revenue.

</comment><comment><USER29> GST is for the central govt which combines all taxes under one umbrella but you still end up pay for income tax as well as respective state tax.

So your tax would be GST + State GST.

The idea one nation one tax is wrong because if you purchase a car in delhi it is not the same price as the one purchased in nagercoil,TN. Had it been the same price then "One Nation, One Tax" was relevant.

<comment><USER30> GST replaces both central and state taxes. States' share is 50% of GST (CGST and SGST). Only alcohol, petroleum and electricity is kept out of GST, which are still taxed at state level.

<comment><USER29> If you see the invoices CGST & SGST is mentioned separately.

<comment><USER31> True but it is as mentioned above 50% each, eg. Eating out is charged 18% GST, half of which would go to state and the other half to the centre. 9% + 9% of the bill value.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> Don't expect any negative news. Reason: [http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/you-have-a- friend...](http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/you-have-a-friendly- press-trump-to-modi/article19155891.ece/amp/)

</comment><comment><USER33> >with the requirement to file 37 times a year online.

In the UK I do a VAT return 4 times a year!

<comment><USER34> The number is arrived from the myth that people need to file 3 returns per month and one at the end of the year. Another article[1] quotes Revenue secretary saying "There is only one return with three parts, out of which first part filed by dealer and two other parts auto populated by computer."

So effectively 12 + 1 returns every year

EDIT: A tweet from the secretary himself: [https://twitter.com/adhia03/status/881428128177901570](https://twitter.com/adhia03/status/881428128177901570)

[1] [http://indianexpress.com/article/business/economy/revenue- se...](http://indianexpress.com/article/business/economy/revenue-secretary- busts-8-gst-myths-says-implementation-and-execution-will-be- transparent-4732070/)

</comment></comment><comment> alok-g Newbie question:

>> India, long one of the fastest growing economies in the world, ...

The number given in support of the above statement is the annual GDP growth rate. However, as I understand, this is before adjustment for inflation, which also is high in India. I have been unable to find the numbers for inflation- adjusted "real" GDP [1] for India and other countries. Is India still the fastest growing economy when the real GDP is considered?

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_gross_domestic_product](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_gross_domestic_product)

<comment><USER35> Your understanding is incorrect: quoted growth numbers are real/constant- currency/inflation-adjusted, as per default in almost all economic reporting.

Global numbers can be found here: [http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG](http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG)

<comment> alok-g This is great. Where can I read more about the terms (newbie here, looking for guidance) like constant-currency, or more broadly, the methodology used in measuring these numbers. Can I also see similar charts for inflation somewhere?

<comment><USER35> Wikipedia has most of the basics covered: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product).

Global inflation numbers are also in World bank data: [http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/FP.CPI.TOTL.ZG](http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/FP.CPI.TOTL.ZG).

"official" data sources and aggregators (national statistics bureaus), IMF, World Bank, FRED can be heavy on economics jargon. Trading economics is probably a bit friendlier for the layperson.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> I wold be a good idea if the USA did something similar having 52 state plus local City Taxes is very inefficient

</comment><comment><USER37> Modi fulfilled just 10 out of his 126 poll promises [http://www.electionpromisestracker.in/governments/central- go...](http://www.electionpromisestracker.in/governments/central-government)

<comment><USER38> Lolwut:

Set up Massive Open Online Courses (MOOC) and virtual classrooms

Do u even know about NPTEL? It was even there before Feku became PM.

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> Nation-wide GST is a Trojan horse for fully-electronic financial reporting.

And fully-electronic financial reporting is in itself a Trojan for electronic sales accounting.

<comment><USER12> Could you explain both of those in layman terms?

<comment><USER39> This all is made to sneakily push people towards electronic sales accounting. See, online only VAT submission makes people who make accounting on paper spend quite a lot of effort on data entry from books to computer. Once enought people switch to electronic only bookkeeping, there will be not much of impedement to introduce electronic sales recording

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> GST is raional only when each state in India has a separate currency;

</comment><comment><USER40> Interesting comments... the people that have experience with India are less impressed, while others are buying the hype. Same as the HN comments when Modi demonetized certain bills, the naysayers were pooh-poohed; and we know how that turned out.

</comment><comment><USER41> India is the only federal nation with true GST. I am excited about the far reaching effects of GST.

<comment><USER42> The way [https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-a- VAT-a...](https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-a-VAT-and-a- GST) describes the difference between VAT and GST to me it seems that GST is very similar to the German _Umsatzsteuer_ which also applies to goods and services equally.

And Germany is also a federal nation which has had this unified tax for decades.

<comment><USER43> > describes the difference between VAT and GST to me it seems that GST is very > similar to the German Umsatzsteuer which also applies to goods and services > equally.

That link seems to be splitting semantic hairs, VATs usually apply to goods and services equally.

That's the case of Switzerland (also a federal nation) with a standard 8% VAT on all goods and services (some goods and services have reduced and null rates). It's also the case of non-federal countries with a VAT e.g. France.

<comment><USER44> Yeah, or Denmark, where our VAT is paltry 25%... on everything...</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Is there a keyboard based on sound signatures? - <AUTHOR> The keyboard in touch devices encroaches visual space. Nowadays, on iPad Pro I use the floating keyboard and swipe gestures.
I wish there is a shorthand style sound signatures as keys, swiped and connected to build words. And a layout that optimizes the most common words and sentences, computed using machine learning. The shorthand techniques also have logograms to make transcription easier.
The word thought is 7 letters, but can be represented by three sounds "th"-"o"-"t". Probably "th" and "t" have to be kept together for a better mental model. And it would be a simple swipe gesture, instead of the complex one based on actual spelling and QWERTY keyboard layout.
Do you know any such keyboard exists? <comment><USER2> Each character in korean is a syllable with an (optional) starting and ending consonants and a vowel in-between. Each stroke (approximately) matches each consonant and vowel. Typing korean inputs these 'strokes' that build each syllable and a sequence of them make a word.

So any korean keyboard would fit you definition though not in english. With the written language being strongly phonetic, anything can be sounded/written out. English consonants don't map 1:1 so there's inaccuracy/ambiguity.

Consonants/vowels isn't very high density though. It would be better to have a sort-of Huffman coding that a human can synthesize/parse based on frequencies and context. The world of shorthand writing probably has such examples.</comment>


The Great Seal Bug: How Theremin Eavesdropped On US Ambassador - <AUTHOR> http://www.spybusters.com/Great_Seal_Bug.html

<comment><USER2> Realy nice read, lots of interesting and insightful details and gives a good insight into the whole cold-war life and times.

I have worked with a modern sweeper team and can only imagine how hard it was to detect passive/active bugs of this type at the time. Today it is even more crafty with added delays, non-metalic mic's and other wonderfuly brilliant tricks to stop the bugs being detected. Of note your bug detection gear needs to be tested and approved as you could of brought it from a supplier who has handicapped it to not detect there bugs.

As for the future, well if you could remotly tap into the human beings brainwaves then you have access to a great stereo-mic. Large steel supports in buildings and reinforced concrete also act as nice ariels if abused right. There realy is no limit.

If you have a secret and the person who wants that secret has unlimited resources and talent then it wont be a secret for long.</comment>


.NET Core gRPC - <AUTHOR> https://grpc.io/blog/grpc-on-dotnetcore/ <comment> nevi-me This is great for people heavily invested in the .NET world. I like the integration with VS, and with the language overall.

We worked with a small vendor on a project at work last year, where he was building a frontend for our gRPC based backend system. My team inherited him from another division that was winding down, and though he had weird choices of tooling and frameworks, we couldn't dictate what he used as that was out of our control.

What we imposed though was that he only use gRPC to communicate with our services. He struggled a lot, I spent about an hour with him trying to compile the proto files. He also weirdly converted every message to JSON then XML. I assumed he'd been used to covering from JSON to XML. In the end, we had a poor experience and decided to rebuild the thing in-house.

My observations were that other than unfamiliarity with gRPC, he knows his way around MS stuff, the lack of seamless integration with his technology stack.

This integration should make it easier for people to get productive faster, and for new users to experiment.

</comment><comment><USER2> If webmaster is here - please don't make us read this with a (magifying glass). Luckily browsers have zoom.

<comment><USER3> I wonder if that is a mistake. All other pages have a decent text size and for some reason when you click in on individual blog pages they are set with a font-size of 0.6 rem.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I will note that exciting part for me is that the code generation is triggered by having single line in project file:

<ItemGroup><Protobuf Include="Protos\greet.proto" /></ItemGroup>

Also the code generated goes to obj directory so it's not versioned. I think this is nice way to do code generation, and sidesteps some of the need for type providers in the future for C#.

</comment><comment><USER5> Is this a replacement or a supplement/alternative to WCF?

<comment><USER6> Short answer is yes for most workloads. It's fast, scalable and well supported.

WCF could operate over pipes which was cool for machine local IPC, but beyond that I think gRPC is superior.

But I asked your exact question to the dotnet team and architect David Fowler gave me a decent answer.

> "I don't know that we have a definitive answer as yet and the GRPC > experience while great isn't nearly as smooth (as of writing) as the WCF > experience. I would say that it's definitely going to be one of the main RPC > option of choice going forward but it;s a bit early to say that this is THE > blessed new way."

[https://github.com/dotnet/core/issues/2278](https://github.com/dotnet/core/issues/2278)

<comment><USER7> I might be the only person who liked WCF.

<comment><USER6> I liked kinda liked it, but trying to unify HTTP, TCP, Pipes and MSMQ into a single framework was probably overly ambitious. WCF always felt very complicated with all sorts of sharp edges to me.

<comment><USER8> WCF also originally supported peer-to-peer network topologies, discovery methods like PNRP (Microsoft's competitor standard to eventual "winner" Bonjour/mDNS), various versions of the SOAP metadata formats, and WS-* standards, etc.

It was definitely ambitious. When it worked it was sometimes magic, and when it didn't it was a giant mess to resolve.

[ETA: In one past life I made the mistake of trying to use WCF Peer-to-Peer for a project and I still have scars from that. :O]

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Why is it net core 3.0 only ? What prevented the authors from targeting lower net core versions or netstandard2 ?

<comment><USER10> I expect that it uses Pipelines ( * ) which is a new high-performance design using Span<T> and related classes inside, and these are new, are not in netstandard2.0.

Moving data onto and off the network efficiently is (one of) the things that Span<T> was created for.

*) [https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/system-io-pipelines-hi...](https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/system-io-pipelines-high-performance-io-in-net/)

<comment><USER11> Pipelines can also be used with much older frameworks: [https://www.nuget.org/packages/System.IO.Pipelines/](https://www.nuget.org/packages/System.IO.Pipelines/)

<comment><USER10> it can, but then it uses the less-performant shims of Span<T> and company in [https://www.nuget.org/packages/System.Memory/](https://www.nuget.org/packages/System.Memory/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Cool, do we think this will this work with unity?(the game engine)

<comment><USER13> If it relies on .NET core then no.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> I really like the generate-on-save workflow integrated into vs

</comment><comment><USER15> > a Program Manger

Very glad French culture is infusing GAFAM (manger means to eat). More seriously, typos like that in the first sentence of a post denotes a serious lack of attention to details.

<comment><USER16> I sometimes have thoughts like these. Mostly, before coffee in the morning.

I never actually feel the need though to actually go ahead and post them. Kindly reflect on what you did, and where this is coming from.

<comment><USER17> Sounds like you haven't had your morning coffee yet...</comment></comment></comment>


When Edison, Ford and Friends Went Road-Tripping in Model Ts - <AUTHOR> http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/when-americas-titans-industry-and-innovation-went-road-tripping-together-180957924/?no-ist <comment><USER2> My great grandfather roughed it in his Model-T around country Victoria in the 20's with his family. You can see it here:

sleeping under the canvas roof ~ [https://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/6713547387/](https://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/6713547387/) and [https://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/6713536431/](https://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/6713536431/)

it could seat quite a few ~ [https://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/6713476537/](https://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/6713476537/)

A man (GGF) and his machine ~ [https://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/6713509017/](https://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/6713509017/)

A women and her machine (GGM) with child in the drivers seat ~ [https://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/6713536425/](https://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/6713536425/)

It really gives me a sense they lived in the future, being able to drive huge distances into remote parts of my home state almost 100 years ago.

</comment><comment><USER3> Imagine going on a road trip in suit and tie! Culturally, it is such a different landscape, but it is not so many years ago!

<comment><USER4> That was a time before ready to wear mass market clothing came to be. In those days people had a couple of changes of clothes plus their Sunday best. Obviously this group was wealthy, but never the less their dress reflect that time and custom.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> If any hacker wants to read up on the topic, I recommend the book "Uncommon Friends: Life with Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, Harvey Firestone, Alexis Carrel, and Charles Lindbergh" by James Newton.

Highly inspiring. I read it a few years ago, right after reading a biography on Edison.

</comment><comment><USER6> To make a stab at a modern day equivalent: James Dyson, Cormac McCarthy, Jeff Bezos, and Obama go on a 2 week cross country road trip, taking just local highways.

</comment><comment><USER7> Worth reading several times:

"My Life and Work" by Henry Ford

"Edison As I Know Him" by Henry Ford</comment>


Show HN: Advent of Code Discord Bot - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/DylanMeeus/Advent_Of_Code_Bot <comment><AUTHOR> It's a discord bot that can print the leaderboard (sorted) to discord channels. I'm using it for my own discord channel but thought some of you might want to use it as well so I put it out there :)

It's a bit close to the start, but if there's bugs/issues I'll try to fix them ASAP.

Have a nice AoC / Good luck! :)</comment>


This $1 Plastic Chip Can Diagnose HIV In 15 Minutes - <AUTHOR> http://www.fastcompany.com/1770850/the-10-cent-plastic-chip-that-quickly-detect-hiv-syphilis <comment><USER2> Previous submission, much discussion: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2845946>

Currently #16 on the Front Page.</comment>


Movie madness: Why Chinese cinemas are empty but full - <AUTHOR> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-china-blog-45318316 <comment><USER2> A good example of "loopy belief propagation".</comment>


MS Strikes Blow for Software Patents: Neuters Goodlatte Bill - <AUTHOR> https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131118/16302825283/microsofts-intense-lobbying-works-goodlatte-to-drop-plan-to-allow-faster-review-bad-software-patents.shtml

<comment><USER2> Current title: "MS Strikes Blow for Software Patents: Neuters Goodlatte Bill"

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why HN changes submission titles. Is MS really striking a blow _for_ or _against_ software patents? Or are we referring to software patent _reform_?

"Microsoft's Intense Lobbying Works: Goodlatte To Drop Plan To Allow For Faster Review Of Bad Software Patents" is the article title. That actually makes sense.</comment>


Google Engineer Gets $6 Million For Not Going To Facebook - <AUTHOR> http://digg.com/story/r/google_engineer_gets_6_million_for_not_going_to_facebook

<comment><USER2> Redirects to [http://www.businessinsider.com/google-engineer- gets-6-millio...](http://www.businessinsider.com/google-engineer- gets-6-million-for-not-going-to-facebook-2010-11), which is a few paragraphs of filler around information taken from the actual source: [http://networkeffect.allthingsd.com/20101119/the- landscape-a...](http://networkeffect.allthingsd.com/20101119/the-landscape- around-googles-hiring-binge/)

</comment><comment><USER3> I will not go work at Facebook for 5.5 million.</comment>


John Lasseter taking a leave of absence amid reports of inappropriate behavior - <AUTHOR> https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/21/pixars-john-lasseter-taking-a-six-month-leave-of-absence-amid-reports-of-inappropriate-behavior/ <comment><USER2> Disappointed to hear this after I just finished reading Creativity, Inc. by Ed Catmull (Pixar's main founder and graphics pioneer) which attributes Pixar's continued success mostly to a culture of extreme candor and honesty... Considering how long this was an issue I guess some things are too good to be true.

<comment><USER3> I worked at Pixar for three years back in the early 2010s, and that book is mostly hot air. There was not a culture of extreme candor or honesty, at least not in the department that writes all the core software.

<comment><USER4> I still haven't read it, but I really need to. I was in the Studio Tools group in the late 90s and thought that group functioned pretty well. I also never heard anything about John behaving badly, although it was generally acknowledged that he was a big kid and had to be tutored on things like good female characters. Reading this news about John has made me very sad. I wonder now if any of my female former coworkers were the subjects of unwanted attention from John. Sigh...

<comment><USER3> > female former coworkers

I didn't hear anything about this through the grapevine, but then again Tools was probably 95% male at the time.

> I was in the Studio Tools group in the late 90s

Pour one out for menv! That was fun software to work on.

<comment><USER5> OK I'm drooling reading comments from people who worked on that software at that time. Sounds like such a blast.

<comment><USER4> I (mostly) loved working at Pixar. They have some of the smartest people I've ever met there. I'd love to say I worked on some amazing, cutting edge features of the animation software, but honestly, I think the most important thing I did was to update the code base from K&R C to ANSI C. It was excruciatingly tedious work and took forever, but it was a necessary pre- condition to using C++ in future components.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Either looking up to someone or holding them in contempt are very binary positions. People are complex. One can admire a person for the good they do and criticise and oppose them for the deliberate bad things they indulge in. I mean... none of us are purely black or white...

<comment><USER7> If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?

\- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

I'm reminded of this quote every time another one of these scandals breaks.

<comment> aaron-lebo With these scandals, it really is simple: don't sexually harass or assault others. Most of us manage.

<comment><USER8> Come on. Even finding a definition of sexual harassment which people can agree on is notoriously difficult. Add to that the fact our society continues to push the idea that the men which women 'really want' are aggressive in initiating sexual situations. A man who does something as timid as asking whether he may kiss a girl can assure himself of inadequacy. (Not that there aren't plenty of exceptions to our media supporting this idea—but it's still implied pervasively. And _some_ of it probably is just human nature.)

That said, even if it's not clear exactly where the line is—it's pretty easy to see that certain actions would be far across it, and that's largely what's come up in recent allegations. Though I don't think _all_ of them have been super clear cut. 'Simple' is too strong here.

<comment><USER9> > Add to that the fact our society continues to push the idea that the men > which women 'really want' are aggressive in initiating sexual situations

This is a big part of the problem. These sexual harassment allegations are almost entirely arising in contexts where sex should be off the table. Society's expectations of aggressive male behavior are entirely irrelevant.

<comment><USER10> > _These sexual harassment allegations are almost entirely arising in contexts > where sex should be off the table._

Humans are not Vulcan-style compartmentalizing creatures, and no rule can stop love (and lust, contrary to puritanical religious-derived beliefs, lust is also ok), etc 100% from emerging. Tons of very happy marriages and relationships started in professional settings.

<comment><USER11> Parent wrote sex, not love. You can't stop love (or lust), but you can choose how you act on them. For example, by removing yourself from the context where that is inappropriate.

<comment><USER12> One of the parent posts mentioned that it is difficult to even agree what constitutes sexual harassment, so difficult to know what to act on or how to act in all circumstances.

Some consider a hug sexual harassment, some consider touching a knee. What about putting your hand on a person's back? Does it make a difference what part of their back, if so exactly how and where?

Sexual harassment should be far more about intention rather than the specific part of the body touched (excluding the obvious no-go areas of genitals and breasts). Generally you should be allowed 1 strike, for mis-reading signals.

In a society where men are expected to initiate contact, this is a fraught situation.

It is not a simple answer.

<comment><USER11> No, sorry, I don't get it at all. Stop trying to read "signals" and get people's actual consent before touching them. It's not difficult or complicated.

<comment><USER12> Not sure what you mean - I have been touched by male and female colleagues numerous times. Not once was it sexual, it was just people being people. Are you suggesting that they ask my permission every time before touching my arm or shoulder or slapping me on the back?

Can you imagine the following scene:

"Gee John, you did a great job there, I would like to shake your hand, or even pat your back (only near the shoulder mind you and no lower than a line formed by the bottom of your shoulder blades). Do you think that would be permissible? I want to reassure you that this touch will not be sexual in any way."

<comment><USER11> A handshake is a good example: when you go give one to someone, you don't actually touch them, you extend your hand and wait for their explicit (if non- verbal) consent.

As for patting backs, do avoid doing so. Many of us don't like it even if it's totally non-sexual.

<comment><USER12> > _" As for patting backs, do avoid doing so. Many of us don't like it even if > it's totally non-sexual."_

...and many of us do like being patted on the back (non-condescending of course).

Perhaps in the future, we will all have to work in an environment where no touching of any sort is allowed, ever, but I can't help thinking that would be a step backwards.

<comment><USER10> Maybe we can have two office sections, one for touch-me-nots, and one for less sensitive people, like smoking and non-smoking sections.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Rashida Jones has given a response denying the allegations: [http://www.eonline.com/news/895644/rashida-jones-denies- leav...](http://www.eonline.com/news/895644/rashida-jones-denies-leaving-toy- story-4-over-john-lasseter-misconduct-claims)

 _" We feel like we have been put in a position where we need to speak for ourselves. The break neck speed at which journalist have been naming the next perpetrator renders some reporting irresponsible and, in fact counterproductive for the people who do want to tell their stories._

 _In this instance, the Hollywood Reporter does not speak for us. We did not leave Pixar because of unwanted advance. That is untrue. We parted ways because of creative and, more importantly philosophical differences. "_

It looks like The Hollywood Reporter didn't follow through by talking to the original victims.

<comment><USER14> Per the HR article:

 _THR made repeated requests for comment to Jones and McCormack starting on Nov. 7 but received no response._

The story does quote other victims and witnesses, so I don't think your characterization is accurate. It looks like solid journalism.

<comment><USER15> If so they could have left out those names and revisited it in a future article if/when they had confirmation.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> This article has more details: [https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/john- lasseters-patter...](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/john-lasseters- pattern-alleged-misconduct-detailed-by-disney-pixar-insiders-1059594)

<comment><USER17> It's just so sad to read this. I don't care much for any of the other names that have come up lately, but John Lasseter is my hero :(

<comment><USER18> Charlie Rose had the best interview show on TV for decades, and is now just gone.

<comment><USER19> charlie rose was awful at interviewing people. he constantly interrupted interesting thoughts. he just had to get a word in at a set rate.

yet somehow they consistently booked very interesting guests. i'll give you that, but that's what the show had going for it, not the eponymous interviewer.

<comment><USER20> Send that booking agent to Hot Ones and get those guests in front of Sean Evans. He digs deep and does wonderful interviews.

<comment><USER21> I generally agree with you, but his interview with the Chicken Connoisseur was embarrassingly bad, starting with the choice of setting and the small talk he opened with...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Wow, what a shitty non apology. A longer version of "I'm sorry you felt offended."

"That was never my intent," he wrote. "Collectively, you mean the world to me, and I deeply apologize if I have let you down. I especially want to apologize to anyone who has ever been on the receiving end of an unwanted hug or any other gesture they felt crossed the line in any way, shape, or form."

</comment><comment><USER23> Bummer. I wonder how common these issues are across the board, in all industries, not just entertainment/tech/finance/politics.

<comment><USER24> From listening to the women in my life: extremely common in most (all?) industries.

<comment><USER22> I've heard far worse stories from finance, legal, and consulting than tech. And I know many more tech workers than the other industries.

<comment><USER25> If you want to hear some really nasty horror stories, ask women who work in blue collar jobs...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Lasseter says : " No matter how benign my intent, everyone has the right to set their own boundaries and have them respected."

It's dead wrong. The boundaries are defined by society as a whole. The way he puts it basically says that if you don't set your boundaries, then don't complain if you are hurt.

<comment><USER27> No actually, whether certain behaviour or moves are acceptable or not depends entirely on the individual. Sales people and socially awkward people are told to reach out and touch people on the shoulder and such, for example; I don't like people touching me, but apparently it should be socially acceptable. I could make it a battery or sexual intimidation case if I wanted to.

Then there's people that actually like being touched, especially by close friends which, yes, can be colleagues, and can be people above them in the chain of command.

TL;DR it's a minefield, best to do nothing and stay away from people.

<comment><USER26> How do you deal with the fact that for some behaviors, most of the people who disagree with it just stay silent. Since nobody complains individually, does it make the behavior acceptable ?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> Ask yourself why you considered him a hero. You don't know this person. He's a person, just like you. I went through a similar process a couple years ago.

Relevant quote regarding Feynman:

 _…in many ways Richard was a sexist. Whenever it came time for his daily bowl of soup he would look around for the nearest "girl" and ask if she would fetch it to him. It did not matter if she was the cook, an engineer, or the president of the company. I once asked a female engineer who had just been a victim of this if it bothered her. "Yes, it really annoys me," she said. "On the other hand, he is the only one who ever explained quantum mechanics to me as if I could understand it." That was the essence of Richard's charm._

It's complex. You can respect their achievements while separating the other half. And until you really know someone, it's not good to lump the two halves together in your mind.

<comment><USER29> Wow, I wasn't aware. I did some searching and his own writing is even more damning (the chapter "You Just Ask Them?" in "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!")

> Well, someone only has to give me the principle, and I get the idea. All > during the next day I built up my psychology differently: I adopted the > attitude that those bar girls are all bitches, that they aren't worth > anything, and all they're in there for is to get you to buy them a drink, > and they're not going to give you a goddamn thing; I'm not going to be a > gentleman to such worthless bitches, and so on. I learned it till it was > automatic.

Further excerpts and discussion here: [https://restructure.wordpress.com/2009/08/07/sexist- feynman-...](https://restructure.wordpress.com/2009/08/07/sexist-feynman- called-a-woman-worse-than-a-whore/)

<comment><USER30> He was a product of his time. That section (unsurprisingly) is preceded by him acting gentlemanly, as he always had, and failing to attract anyone. Gender roles work both ways, and that was apparently how society there and then in that social context expected men to act.

<comment><USER31> His time was a product of people, like him, the ones that lived at that time. The causality is reversed.

<comment><USER32> Surely you understand that the both statements are true and that culture and people are an iterative process where both affect each other?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> In related news - John Draper (Cpt. Crunch) is dropped from tech conferences for similar reasons.

[https://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2017/11/iconic- hacker-...](https://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2017/11/iconic-hacker- booted-from-conferences-after-sexual-misconduct-claims-surface/)

Comments are interesting. Apparently his was a known issue and people were explicitly warned to stay away from him at the conferences and such.

<comment><USER34> I heard the warnings in 2000 at Defcon, though I had no direct contact with him.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> Why is making someone uncomfortable at work somehow a newsworthy topic?

Why are people supporting this? It's clearly a farce.

</comment><comment><USER36> This smacks of damage minimisation and failure to take responsibility. While we shouldn't be applauding these guys, I found that at least Louis C.K.'s confession seemed genuine (after the denials).</comment>


Engineering Windows 7 : User Interface -- Managing Windows windows - <AUTHOR> http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2008/10/01/user-interface-managing-windows-windows.aspx <comment><USER2> I apppreciate that Microsoft is looking at this, but they don't seem to be aware of most other window managers. They've identified "problems" that others have long since solved.

For example, Microsoft finds that maximize isn't good on large monitors and wants a way to zoom less in one direction. They also want this to be possible with minimal mouse precision.

If you look at Window Maker on Linux, a single feature solves both of these problems: you zoom by double-clicking the title bar with modifier keys. So what you're clicking is big (minimal mouse precision), and you have 3 options: Shift for horizontal, Control for vertical, or logically Shift+Control for both.

And if you look at a Mac, while Cocoa's default is to zoom full-screen, apps are encouraged to define an "optimal" size for content that can be quickly toggled (between the user's last custom size/position, and the optimal one). This is literally one click to make the window look exactly right.</comment>


China is world's worst jailer of the press; global tally second worst on record - <AUTHOR> https://cpj.org/reports/2014/12/journalists-in-prison-china-is-worlds-worst-jailer.php

<comment><USER2> > _China is world 's worst jailer of the press_

Yep, if you don't control the journalists completely, you've got to jail them to cencor them.

If, on the other hand, they'll print anything the government tells them as if it was The Truth, and would hardly question much, besides some partisan BS, why bother?

Especially if the few facts that sometimes escape this self-sencorship are burried in a cloud of illogical opinions, half-informed BS and propaganda, so the population doesn't even know what to think about those either...

</comment><comment><USER3> I can't help but to add a counterpoint here for the United States. The incarceration rate in the United States is over five times that of China (although these numbers exclude prisoners in US Territories, military facilities, immigration and customs, facilities controlled by the Marshall's Service, and juvenile facilities, which would further increase the ratio). In fact, of first world nations, the United States leads every other nation for incarceration rate including Cuba, Russia, Rwanda, Belarus, and Iran.

Besides controversies related to race, America has also seen a large number of prison scandals in the past few years including:

1: kickbacks to the judicial system to pipeline truly innocent children into juvenile detention ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal))

2: the forced, uninformed and/or coerced sterilization of prisoners ([https://www.google.com/?q=california+forced+sterilization+of...](https://www.google.com/?q=california+forced+sterilization+of+inmates#safe=off&q=california+forced+sterilization+of+inmates))

3: documented overuse of solitary confinement ([http://americamagazine.org/issue/solitary- scandal](http://americamagazine.org/issue/solitary-scandal)) in some cases for 40 straight years ([http://www.democracynow.org/2014/11/24/longest_serving_us_pr...](http://www.democracynow.org/2014/11/24/longest_serving_us_prisoner_in_solitary))

4: a lack of legal opportunity in high density prisons for a speedy trial, even in the case of child offenders ([http://www.democracynow.org/2014/10/1/accused_of_stealing_a_...](http://www.democracynow.org/2014/10/1/accused_of_stealing_a_backpack_high)) and for those with mental issues ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_DeFriest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_DeFriest))

5: the premeditated use of penal labor as a cheap replacement for unskilled labor ([http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/10/prison- labor_n_2272...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/10/prison- labor_n_2272036.html))

6: the use of untested, classified and ineffective lethal injections on death row inmates (for example that of Joseph Wood [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_Joseph_Wood](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_Joseph_Wood))

However, the United States is not nearly as bad to journalists. If you are a foreign journalist in the US that is not liked you will be deported (Ibrahim Jassam, Jason Rezaian and Yeganeh Salehi) and/or harassed during travel (Laura Poitras) and if you are a domestic journalistic enterprise you may be surveilled (like the Associated Press surveillance scandal this administration, or the countless others from recent times). You may be aggressively prosecuted to reveal sources (ruining your ability to keep secrecy of sources and therefore trustworthiness to confidential informants) a la Risen. You may be pressured into not running certain stories (like The Washinton Post's 2004 story about the NSA mass surveillance that was pushed under the radar). You may lose access to officials or be blocked from attending or asking questions at press releases or in the converse be given access to these things for running certain stories or positive slants on them (Judith Miller, Ken Dilanian). You may be threatened with the Espionage Act for handing national documents (Glenn Greenwald). But you will probably not be directly imprisoned.

<comment><USER4> The fact that an amateur on the Internet can dig dirt up speaks scores for the US (as flawed as it is) than it does for China.

Oh sweet irony.

<comment><USER5> Are you suggesting it's difficult to find articles that criticise China on the Internet?

<comment><USER6> It's difficult to find articles written in Chinese, hosted on servers or social media and news sites in China that criticize China, yes.

Conversely, it's beyond easy to find articles written in English, hosted on US servers and social media and news sites in the US that criticize the US.

So the parent's point seems to stand.

<comment><USER3> This isn't really true. Take for example the Harvard Study on Chinese Censorship "Reverse-engineering censorship in China: Randomized experimentation and participant observation" by King, Gary, Pan, and Roberts ([http://gking.harvard.edu/files/gking/files/experiment_0.pdf](http://gking.harvard.edu/files/gking/files/experiment_0.pdf)).

Scathing criticism is regularly posted about the Chinese government and is not subject to any censorship. There are a few key areas that are censored: notably relations with Tibet and historical political uprisings.

<comment><USER7> > _Scathing criticism is regularly posted about the Chinese government_

Did you actually read the study? That's not what they studied. They studied whether postings were held for review more on social media sites over standard media. And they weren't held more. What they found was that the CCP on social media takes a "post first, censor later" approach. That doesn't mean they don't censor social media. On social media, posts are "Reviewed".

If you scroll down to the bottom of the study, they even give a listing of words that usually trigger a "review" flag.

From your linked study: " _In total, 66 of the 100 sites in our sample (automatically) review at least some social media submissions, and 40% of all of our individual social media submissions from our 100 sites (and 52% of submissions from sites that review at least sometimes) are put into review. Of those submissions that go into review, 63% never appear on the web._ "

<comment><USER3> Did _you_ actually read the paper? You quote from the results section. Did you go directly there?

Here's the opening paragraph. You'll find plenty in the paper to support it, although this is directly supported with a citation from their previous paper ([http://gking.harvard.edu/files/gking/files/censored.pdf](http://gking.harvard.edu/files/gking/files/censored.pdf)): "We begin with the theoretical context. The largest previous study of the purpose of Chinese censorship (2) distinguished between the "state critique" and "collective action potential" theories of censorship and found that, with few exceptions, the first was wrong and the second was right: Criticisms of the government in social media (even vitriolic ones) are not censored, whereas any attempt to physically move people in ways not sanctioned by the government is censored. Even posts that praise the government are censored if they pertain to real-world collective action events (2)."

Critique of the state is _not_ censored. The paper goes on to show that even discussion about having a multiparty American-style Constitutional system is not subject to censorship.

There are very select things that are censored, and these things that are censored (calls for direct collective action and specific topics related to these) see both:

1.) foreign propaganda attempts, which is a strong reason for the Chinese government to be interested in disruption (this is also true in America)

2.) parity with movement disquieting behavior of Western states (the US disquiets movements through mechanisms other than direct censorship including direct organizational infiltration, Fusion Centers, IRS harassment, JTRIG type 'warnings', character assassination, bribery, etc)</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: What are your favorite instances of software depicted in movies? - <AUTHOR>

There are countless examples of software being depicted in movies and television, most of which are completely absurd, inaccurate, and even insulting (to those of us who work with computers and write software regularly). These range from flashing, red alerts informing you that access is denied to intense hacking scenes to monitors in the background of a control room with lots of data scrolling down the terminal interface. What are your favorites (or rather least favorites)? Descriptions are fine, but links to actual video clips are better.<p>For example, the first part of this video contains some of the classic scenes from the original Jurassic Park movie -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znrc2iGyZ8E <comment><USER2> 'Hackers' has to be my favorite. It's all pretty absurd but captures the excitement well... from 3-d tunnels for tunneling into systems, walls of text representing databases, cookie monsters and rabbits as memory problems, I love it.

<comment><AUTHOR> I must agree this is a classic. The way they try to visualize the inside of the computer and the file system is fantastically ridiculous.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> There's a lot of this in the film Swordfish. I actually quite like this bit a lot, it makes me smile. Hacking represented by some kind of floating 3D CAD model. Hugh Jackman also types so fast he physically sweats.

There's a whole list of this type of tech in films & screenshots - <http://apcmag.com/top-10-worst-movie-tech-moments.htm>

</comment><comment><USER4> WarGames, however inaccurate, changed my view on computers when I saw it circa 1994 when I was 9 years old. The device I used to type up papers and find nudity transformed into something I could manipulate and customize without ever leaving the desk it sat upon.

</comment><comment><USER5> The starting scene on The Social Network. The way they depicted how Zuck pieced together the facemash app. It had no special effects, it was an accurate depiction of a hackathon session.

<comment><AUTHOR> I cannot think of any other scene besides this that actually gives a reasonably realistic depiction of someone writing code/hacking. This is a good one!

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> I have always loved this montage: Let's Enhance -- <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxq9yj2pVWk></comment>


New Facebook Messaging Continues to Block Some Links - <AUTHOR> http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/11/facebook-link-blocking/

<comment><USER2> I suggest we all complain that we can't send messages like these to our friends:

       http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5960827/ubuntu-10.10-netbook-i386.iso</comment>


Tour of My Roof - <AUTHOR> https://e.elliott.computer/big-tree-map/ <comment><USER2> I kept trying to turn into the house at the beginning as it forced me towards the window. It's a struggle that can only be matched by being sucked into a black hole, or how flight attendants feel when the emergency exit door breaks open mid-flight and they struggle to flee the merciless tug of the portal.

</comment><comment><USER3> This is cool! Here's a blog about a similar project I have been working on which uses panoramic images taken very close together to let you move around my parents' basement: [https://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=69545.msg141953...](https://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=69545.msg1419532#msg1419532)

</comment><comment><USER4> From the creator of [https://special.fish/](https://special.fish/) and other fine downtempo htmls.

<comment><USER5> I truly can't figure out what that site is for

<comment><USER6> [https://special.fish/faqs](https://special.fish/faqs)

<comment><USER5> Somehow I never found that. thanks lol

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> The domain name made me click on it but it has nothing to do with Elliott computers, who were based in Borehamwood, England: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_Brothers_(computer_com...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_Brothers_\(computer_company\))

Their best known computer was the Elliott 803: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_803](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_803)

Tony Hoare used to work at Elliott and wrote an Algol 60 compiler for the 803.

</comment><comment><USER8> A small scale version of Myst. (Is there something like a Myst generator? A personalized version of google map?)

<comment><USER9> You could always use the original Myst generator, HyperCard.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperCard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperCard)

<comment><USER10> If you target Mac OS 9, that is.

<comment><USER11> Theres a cross-platform "HyperCard" called LiveCode ([https://livecode.com/](https://livecode.com/)). The syntax is very similar and you can even import old HyperCard programs: [https://www.hyperactivesw.com/mctutorial/rrtutorialtoc.html](https://www.hyperactivesw.com/mctutorial/rrtutorialtoc.html)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Kept trying to go up the stairs to the next level

<comment><USER13> Same here!

<comment><AUTHOR> stairwell level coming soon

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I appreciate this as a fellow roof lover. There is something intriguing about experiencing the world from a physical perspective that you aren't "supposed" to view it from.

</comment><comment><USER15> Well, maybe i'm missing something, but...what does make it so special to appear on HN front page?

<comment><USER16> Perhaps the experimental interface, which is a radical shift from the Google StreetView interface that we're all familiar with.

<comment><USER17> It only took me a few square clicks before I could understand the interface which is pretty quick with no instructions presented.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Cool, you could make it faster by preloading images.

</comment><comment><USER19> Reminds me of Blade Runner.

<comment><USER20> Yeah, same here.

[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QOlPNZzneGw](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QOlPNZzneGw)

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> I like how fast going back to a location I've already been to is because my browser cached the image. Which makes me wonder how much this could be optimized: Can you load adjacent images hidden from view with a lower priority than the main image or something like that so that all navigation is instantaneous?

<comment><USER22> sure, it's basically the principle of an infinite scroll, you preload the content you will scroll to next so it is just rendering.

you could also preload with the link element [https://developer.mozilla.org/en- US/docs/Web/HTML/Preloading...](https://developer.mozilla.org/en- US/docs/Web/HTML/Preloading_content)

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> Top left of [https://e.elliott.computer/big-tree- map/8/up.html](https://e.elliott.computer/big-tree-map/8/up.html) is a 404, by the way.

<comment><USER24> [https://e.elliott.computer/big-tree- map/7/up-1.html](https://e.elliott.computer/big-tree-map/7/up-1.html) 404s for me

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Reminds me of early 2000s. What city is it?

<comment><USER26> Unsurprisingly it is Williamsburg, Brooklyn or close to it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> Zooming in and hitting the back button a handful of times is peak Blade Runner.

</comment><comment><USER28> Takes forever to load images when I click on one.

</comment><comment><USER20> Looks cool. Turning it into a game?</comment>


Fan Death - <AUTHOR> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_death <comment><USER2> So a natural question to ask is what other theories are widely believed despite lack of evidence.

A close analog is perhaps "do not swim 30 minutes after eating". (Apparently this concept dates back to at least 1908 [1], which would make it about the same age as the fan death). You can see the same historical tendencies as you see for fan death: it used to be very widely believed, but nowadays with the help of the internet people can fact check things easier, and it's starting to be debunked by Snopes and so on.

I forget who, but someone said that dietary advice is an analogue to fan death. That is, there is essentially no evidence that e.g. eating fat will make you fat, or that anti-oxidants are healthy, or whatever, but still each new nutrition-science fad is eagerly and credulously passed on.

[1] [http://www.snopes.com/oldwives/hourwait.asp](http://www.snopes.com/oldwives/hourwait.asp)</comment>


A remarkable email exchange with a developer who cares - <AUTHOR> EDIT: I realise the below isn't exactly readable so I posted a formatted version here: http://andrewsplastic.tumblr.com/
I recently installed a Chrome extension that didn't do exactly what I wanted. I uninstalled it and promptly forgot about it until the following email exchange happened:
FROM BEN COE, THE CO-FOUNDER OF THE EXTENSION ATTACHMENTS.ME:

  Hey Andrew, Ben here. I'm one of the cofounders of Attachments.me:

  I've been reaching out to some of the people who signup for our
  service, I'd love to know how things are going for you.

  Any feedback you can provide about how the service is working for you
  so far, would be awesome. Also, I'd love to hear any suggestions you
  have for the product.

  Thanks for taking the time to try us out :)

  Cheers,
  Ben Coe

 MY REPLY:

  Hey Ben,

  Thanks for getting in touch.

  I uninstalled it. All I really needed was my attachments to appear on the right of the email *and* be
  downloadable from the right panel. My only option was to transfer to dropbox (I use cloud app) or open the
  attachments.me window and browse for the relevant attachment.

  If you guys enable the attachments on the right to be downloadable directly I'll re-install straight away.
  CloudApp support would also be great.

  Cheers,
  Andrew
 FROM BEN:

  Hey, thanks for the quick response :)

  I'm curious, what do you see as the advantage to being able to download the attachment on the right-hand side, as
  oppose to being able to download it in the area provided below the email. Is it that we could consolidate all the
  attachments in the thread into one area?

  Would love to get you back on board,

  -- Ben.
 MY REPLY:
Hey Ben,

  When receiving emails from some people, GMail doesn't recognize the thread. It incorrectly assumes the reply's
  are part of the email. So some emails get ridiculously long, and I have to scroll forever downwards to get to the
  download link. When I first installed attachments.me, I was stoked, as I could see all the attachments relevant
  to the thread on the right...but they were static names, not links :(

  Would it be hard to turn those static titles into attachment links?

  Regards,
  Andrew
 FROM BEN:

  That makes sense. I think you're right, it would be smart for the name of the attachment to allow you to
  download it.

  I've added this feature to the extension, if you install the newest version here:

  https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/gdgofjdapkmlgpgjfielacjckplcdjjk

  it should do the trick.

  Keep the feedback coming,

  -- Ben.

 In short Ben reached out to me, without being contacted and implemented the change I had been looking for, and he did it in minutes. <comment><USER2> I used to work for a university High Performance Computing Lab. This was one of the things I loved about it. We were 3 guys running the whole system (10k cores) and we somehow slipped between the cracks of all departments and were left to do our own thing. When a professor or student would request something, we could make the change live while still on the phone with them. While we did try to put all features into our ticket tracker at least for records sake, it was nice not having to go through a big approval process to make the changes.

<comment><USER3> This is the exact opposite of my experience working on the USCMs Tier 1 team at Fermilab (we took data directly from the CMS detector at the LHC, processed it, and distributed it across the world).

We were a team of 10 people, constantly bogged down in red tape. Oh! You want iptables rules on your thousands of nodes that are publicly facing on a Class B to the world with no firewalls, etc in the way? That's 8 months of back and forth with PHDs, committees, etc.

Needless to say, I left after a year and moved to someplace where I could effect much more change in a more rapid pace.

<comment><USER4> Man, that sucks. Places like Fermilab are perpetually starved for funding and need to get the most bang from every buck. Doesn't sound like that's happening, with processes like that in place.

<comment><USER3> Too much dead wood, as well as no financial incentive to increase efficiency (with resources of any type).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Ben, Jesse and their team are awesome folks with an awesome product.

Your conversation with Ben was indicative of how many CEOs are missing a huge opportunity to connect with real users and make sure they're solving a real problem.

I do my best to answer as many BuzzData support tickets as possible, because it gives me direct access to the best early warning system we could ask for.

As the technical co-founder, I completely understand Craig Newmark choosing to stick to tech support. Once you have enough money, the best high comes from seeing how something you built makes people happy.

</comment><comment><USER6> As the sole developer, I do one of these per week. It is always fun to 'svn up' and reply to the email personally.

</comment><comment><USER7> I email every single customer within 24-48 hours of purchase and try to engage in similar conversation. I've learned quite a bit about our audience, our product, and our product expectations as a result of that.

I'm not sure adding features on the fly is something I'm into, but I do take all feature requests to heart.

Was it Steve Blank that said something about no product surviving first encounter with a customer?

</comment><comment><USER8> This should not feel special at all. :-/

</comment><comment><USER9> This is a great thing to do if you're a CEO or founder, especially if it's sincere. users feel flattered when you ask them for an opinion or feedback on a feature.

</comment><comment><USER10> Ben and Jesse are great guys. I'm surprised more startup companies don't reach out to their potential customers like this. This exchange proves how valuable that contact & communication can be.

</comment><comment><USER11> Wow, this sounds like someone who's actually looking to see what's wrong and proactively try to fix it. I hope he can instill this same philosophy to his current as well as his future employees.

</comment><comment><USER12> I may have to go and install this now...</comment>


You don't need a Computer Science degree - <AUTHOR> https://codewithoutrules.com/2017/04/06/you-dont-need-a-cs-degree/ <comment><USER2> .... But you can gain really useful knowledge by learning CS concepts.</comment>


Time-lapse video of a rocket launch seen from space - <AUTHOR> https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/amazing-time-lapse-video-of-a-rocket-launch-seen-from-space <comment><USER2> Direct link to video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJy1u-N3NY0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJy1u-N3NY0)

<comment><USER3> Exactly what I came to the comments section to post. Huge pet peeve of mine is "articles" that are just a YouTube video with some redundant commentary underneath that offers zero value beyond the video itself.

<comment><USER4> In this case, though, I don't mind because Phil Plait is a well known science communicator whose articles actually add useful context. I don't mind that his article is linked (although I did go straight to the video first, but I am not the target audience for the commentary).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Pardon my extreme ignorance, but what is the greenish/yellowish band?

<comment><USER6> That's not ignorance, that's curiosity. And it's nothing to be ashamed of.

<comment><USER7> It is really hard to post a comment without being afraid of being ridiculed these days.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Reminds me of this video of the cameras on a booster during launch and reentry.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aCOyOvOw5c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aCOyOvOw5c)

<comment><USER7> This one is incredible.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> More timelapses from the Crew Earth Observation programs are available here, along the raw frames: [https://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/BeyondThePhotography/CrewEarthObser...](https://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/BeyondThePhotography/CrewEarthObservationsVideos/) (remember to click in the map to find all the available videos at each region, there are a lot more than those of the landing page)

</comment><comment><USER10> What are the red blinking lights that enter the view at 1:10 ? It seems huge.

<comment><USER11> From the video comments the author noticed these and tracked them down. They seem to be power lines and a huge wind generation project in China:

"I asked myself exactly the same thing when editing the video.

I spent several time on Google Earth and I found it's something around the city of Zalantun (Inner Mongolia); in all likelihood, the red lights are mounted on huge power-line trusses or wind turbines. For example, look at this coordinates for power-lines: 47.761390, 123.026970 And wind turbines here: 47.5641695, 122.9092991"

[https://goo.gl/maps/jegbbvmmuV92](https://goo.gl/maps/jegbbvmmuV92)

<comment><USER12> If you go to isstracker.com/historical and search for the time 2018-11-16 18:25:44+0000 you'll see the ISS right above this area. Pretty interesting.

<comment><USER10> There's a problem with the google maps API key for that website :/.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Amazing! Why does it look so much like computer graphics? I would't expect to see it like that with my own eyes.

<comment><USER14> Lack of ambient light and atmospheric attenuation. Significantly more direct light vs indirect light.

If you fly at 35,000 ft the horizon is at 221.3 miles and most of it is dense air. If you look directly downwards from ISS there is less than ten miles of thick atmosphere between the camera and the target.

If you do ray tracing from single light source with few objects and without effects that simulate atmosphere you simulate how the scene looks in vacuum.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> I imagine the launch was timed so that this video could be taken. I doubt it's just coincidence.

Or perhaps they're launching so the vehicle will end up in orbit close to the ISS and not have to take so long, I believe they're doing with this with manned launches so they can dock quite quickly.

<comment><USER16> They've been playing with quick launch-to-dock launches lately, so I doubt they did it just for the video.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progress_MS-09](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progress_MS-09)

> NASA confirmed on June 28 that if Progress MS-09 launches on July 9, it will > attempt a super fast-tracked rendezvous with the Station, docking to the ISS > just 3 hours (2 orbits) after launch - making it the fastest orbital > rendezvous ever-attempted with the Station.

<comment><USER17> If I remember correctly, ISS makes a full circle of Earth every 90 minutes. Having planned the lift of with 45mins lag/difference would make it "so much" more difficult/challenging/risky to connect. And I guess every second counts when you're up there.

I've seen many videos of lift-offs etc (plus I'm huge Star Trek fan), but this one, made me hold my breath for a good 45 seconds (thank you yoga!)

<comment><USER18> The topic here is phasing. The two orbit approach requires exact alignment of orbital path and correct phasing, which both translate to an exact point in time when you need to launch the rocket (instantaneous launch window, i.e. when you delay by a second you need to scrub the launch). That window does not repeat every ~90 minutes (i.e. orbital period), since the ground track of the ISS moves West (relative to Earth's surface). It does repeat roughly every ~24hrs (not quite true and hence you cannot launch every day of the year), so you can re-attempt the next day only.

For the longer approaches, the rocket launches with an offset of several (tens of) minutes of that instantaneous launch window (that mostly means you have a launch window of several minutes, i.e. short delays do not abort your launch), so the spacecraft comes up significantly "in front of" or "behind" the ISS. As with the fast approach, the spacecraft will still not launch into the same orbit (i.e. mostly lower and more elliptical than the ISS orbit). But this is more important for the slow approach: Due to orbit dynamics, the difference in orbit will make you "catch" up with the other space vehicle over time – this is what is called "phasing". When you've aligned the phases, you raise/align the spacecraft's orbit to the ISS and are thus very close and in final approach.

If your phase is not well aligned at orbit insertion (i.e. just after the launch), you need to do more and thus longer phasing. I.e. the bottom line is that you need a high precision launch, precise navigation sensors & enough computational power on the rocket and spacecraft to be able to do a fast approach in 2-3 orbits, plus the ISS orbit must align very well with your launch site at launch time. It is simply more complex and thus more risky as the slow approach, but then again you are faster if everything works out perfectly. The safer bet is the slow approach, though, as it gives you more margin and more time to fix any issues that arise.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Thank you for posting this.

Watching it elicited in me a sense of _awe and wonder_ at both human ingenuity and the almost unimaginable scale of the universe.

I love coming across postings like this one on HN!

</comment><comment><USER20> That is an amazing video, the way those cities roll away under the camera, at any point in time you are looking at a few hundred million people at the same time.

<comment> joatmon-snoo For me, that was hands-down the craziest part of this video. I've seen the numbers for the velocity of orbiting bodies, but seeing just how quickly the camera was moving - wow.

<comment><USER21> Yeah, even though it's a time lapse, it conveys pretty well the fact that the ISS is going 5. miles. every. second.

If I left my home right now at that speed for San Francisco (~36 miles), I'd be ready to park in ~ 7 seconds.

Most of the universe operates at velocities and under conditions we can barely imagine.

<comment><USER22> Relevant xkcd, [https://what-if.xkcd.com/58/](https://what-if.xkcd.com/58/)

> Let's imagine what it would look like if you were speed-walking across the > Earth's surface at 8 km/s.

> To get a better sense of the pace at which you're traveling, let's use the > beat of a song to mark the passage of time.[9] suppose you started playing > the 1988 song by The Proclaimers, I'm Gonna Be (500 Miles). That song is > about 131.9 beats per minute, so imagine that with every beat of the song, > you move forward more than two miles.

> In the time it took to sing the first line of the chorus, you could walk > from the Statue of Liberty all the way to the Bronx.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Watching the earth from above like this always reminds me of what Carl Sagan used to say about it:

"It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."

<comment><USER24> I think this is synonymous with the "overview effect"[0] that astronauts experience (or at least as close as one might get without being in space). If only we could send half of congress to space...

[0] [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_effect](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_effect)

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> if it comes, the last day of our civilization with thousands of ICBM launching is going to look spectacular.

<comment><USER26> I was thinking the same thing when I saw the smoke plume. Imagine watching hundreds of those plumes litter the sky from above.

<comment><USER27> Iron Sky End Sequence tries to show how those plumes would look like. Although, there's only a handful of them. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvtxFnG9pD8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvtxFnG9pD8)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> Thanks, awe inspiring video!

>When you compress a gas it heats up, and eventually the compression is so violent that that air heats up enough to start vaporizing the booster.

I don't think this is an accurate description of what happens on re-entry.

<comment><USER29> It actually is. People call it friction, but that's not right. It's adiabatic compression heating.

<comment><USER30> > It's adiabatic compression heating.

If we're being pedantic (and I don't mean that pejoratively), this would have been more correct if you'd left out "adiabatic". If gasdynamic compression heating is being induced by a fast-moving body in the open atmosphere, it's not strictly adiabatic.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Imagine what an observing alien species might be thinking as they watch this.

<comment><USER32> For some, "Cool!". For others, "What's the ETA on those impactors?".

<comment><USER31> I'd imagine it'd be like watching a moldy blueberry shoot a spore... "Whoa, thats pretty cool but I better toss this thing in the garbage before someone gets sick."

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> 0:49 Something that we won't see for SpaceX rockets.

[https://youtu.be/aJy1u-N3NY0?t=49](https://youtu.be/aJy1u-N3NY0?t=49)

<comment><USER34> Except of course, on failures of the launch or a purposeful non-recoverable mission

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> Of course its just a dot most of the time. Unlike every sci-fi movie / tv show.

<comment><USER36> Well, in sci-fi movies/tv-shows they're supposed to be closer.

If the ISS was much closer (which happens, when the crew finally connects), it wouldn't be a dot.

<comment><USER37> No crew in this one, it is a Progress [1] freighter.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progress_(spacecraft)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progress_\(spacecraft\))

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> This is absolutely beautiful, it's exactly what I needed to see tonight.

</comment><comment><USER39> Dear lord, awe inspiring.

</comment><comment><USER40> Where are the turtles?

<comment><USER41> They're all the way down</comment></comment>


Lobster: Instagram & Flickr marketplace - <AUTHOR> http://ilobster.it/marketplace

<comment><USER2> Submitting the same link in 3 times in 1 day is not recommended.</comment>