The Cybertruck is not brutalist - <AUTHOR> https://www.inverse.com/article/61479-cybertruck-brutalism-not-really <comment><USER2> Kind of reminds me of this copypasta that has become a meme in the emo music scene:

"Real Emo" only consists of the dc Emotional Hardcore scene and the late 90's Screamo scene. What is known by "Midwest Emo" is nothing but Alternative Rock with questionable real emo influence. When people try to argue that bands like My Chemical Romance are not real emo, while saying that Sunny Day Real Estate is, I can't help not to cringe because they are just as fake emo as My Chemical Romance (plus the pretentiousness). Real emo sounds ENERGETIC, POWERFUL and somewhat HATEFUL. Fake emo is weak, self pity and a failed attempt to direct energy and emotion into music. Some examples of REAL EMO are Pg 99, Rites of Spring, Cap n Jazz (the only real emo band from the midwest scene) and Loma Prieta. Some examples of FAKE EMO are American Football, My Chemical Romance and Mineral EMO BELONGS TO HARDCORE NOT TO INDIE, POP PUNK, ALT ROCK OR ANY OTHER MAINSTREAM GENRE

<comment><USER3> "Leading Brutalist Expert" is a hilarious phrase.

If almost everyone considers it brutalist, well, too bad expert gatekeeper of an ill-defined abstract notion.

<comment><USER4> Regular words work that way. Jargon words don't.

Jargon words are defined once, in an academic paper that introduces them, and then everyone else _using the word in the jargon sense_ keeps using that exact definition. If the word becomes useless, they get a new word, since the old word still means—and will be preserved to forever mean—the old thing.

If you think about it, this is the only way that academia can "work" over a span of generations. We need to be able to differentiate statements about phlostigon from statements about calories; statements about the luminiferous aether from statements about electricity; etc. If we just re-used the word "phlostigon" _for_ the concept of calories, we'd both render a lot of previous papers _way_ more confusing than they need to be, and also make productive debate about which of the hypotheses is true basically impossible.

Anthropology (and so art/music/etc. history) is an academic discipline; words like "Brutalist" _are_ jargon terms in that discipline. (They're also non- jargon words used by laymen like journalists, but that pretty much doesn't affect what the academics do at all.)

It all seems very obvious if you map it to your own discipline. E.g. if laymen, when they say "a matrix", mean some VR simulation thing, that doesn't change what it means when a mathematician says "a matrix", right?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> As a person with personal interest in visual arts I never have seen the appeal of appearance of many popular "great looking" cars of today's variety. Even muscle cars and luxury models.

Cars up to 70's and 80's were really nice and aesthetically pleasing, and I find the Elon Musk's vision to be really nice and refreshing.

It might be that I'm partial to science fiction in general, but I really would like to see this vision developed further.

<comment><USER6> A lot of cars today are designed around regulations and with aerodynamics in mind.

For example in Europe you can't have a spoiler that could catch a cyclist. And it is prefered that there is room between the hood and motor in case of an impact with a pedestrian.

This is why a lot of cars start to look the same.

This is also why the cybertruck in it's current form will never be allowed in Europe. A door that doesn't dent on impact of a huge hammer gives a nice show but is a big no for a lot of different safety reasons.

<comment><USER7> > _This is also why the cybertruck in it 's current form will never be allowed > in Europe._

To be honest, Cybertruck may be not allowed in Europe for citizens, but I not see any limitations that could prevent allowing Cybertruck for farming in Europe.

<comment><USER8> Southern Germany is chock full of small to large-ish farms (all of which would be tiny to small for US standards I guess), but either people hide their pick- up trucks extremely well, or there aren't a lot of them around. Also, wouldn't not having a Straßenzulassung (permission for road use) mean you couldn't use it on public streets at all?

<comment><USER9> You can see a tractor on the road every now and then, so there must be some regulatory way. However that comes with servere limitations, for example on speed.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> It's also more subtly curved than most people give it credit for. I know a guy that is creating 3D models of the truck for some people that want to simulate it in simulated wind-tunnel. He was flabbergasted at how much they could keep the straight looking form while also smuggling in critical curvatures here and there to stop eddy currents from forming.

<comment> semi-extrinsic I'm guessing you mean turbulent eddies (which form in a fluid) rather than eddy currents (which form inside metals subjected to changing magnetic fields).

In any case, it's impossible to stop eddy currents from forming. Any car, even if it's as slippery as a LMP1 prototype, will generate lots of turbulent eddies. The question is, how bad will the drag coefficient be.

And that's a question you won't be able to answer with simulations unless you have a few tens to hundreds of millions of CPU-hours lying around.

<comment><USER10> Ah yes, sorry. You're right. I'm so used to thinking about computers that I flummoxed the two.

<comment><USER11> Did you mean confused, not flummoxed?

<comment><USER12> Does it matter, pedant?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> It's likely by this pedantic definition that no automobile could ever be brutalist. Architectural gatekeeping.

<comment><USER14> "The truck is consumerist, whereas brutalism's monumentality is civic. The truck's boldness serves the bravado of an individual, whereas brutalism's visual power was meant to project the shared dignity of the public realm."

Literally no product you can buy would meet this definition.

I guess you could make a brutalist city bus?

<comment><USER15> > "the shared dignity of the public realm"

That is a peculiar way to describe what Brutalism projects. I've always thought that it projected the sinister power of bureaucracy, and that was why government officials fell for it as hard as they did.

(I know you're just quoting the author.)

<comment><USER16> > That is a peculiar way to describe what Brutalism projects

By the express wording of the quote, it doesn't describe what Brutalism _projects_ but what Brutalism _was meant to project_.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Brutalist philosophy always sounds cool with its honesty and showing of how it works. But then you look at what it actually produces and it's usually, you know, brutal. If brutalist architects could just find it in their hearts to make their buildings have nice shapes along with all the other properties, maybe they wouldn't be so reviled.

<comment><USER18> There are exceptions. The Washington DC Metro, for instance.

<comment><USER19> London has plenty of well-loved and iconic brutalist examples. A far from complete list:

Barbican Estate, Southbank Centre/Royal Festival Hall, Centrepoint, The Brunswick

<comment><USER20> I'm not sure many of those count as well loved. The South Bank is an abomination.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> I disagree. If one definition of Brutalism is to be honest about materials - then Cybertruck nails that. Unpainted stainless steel is as brutalist as it gets.

We can argue about the design intent of the way it looks and whether that's Brutalism. Aesthetics is only one aspect of Brutalism.

Another aspect of Brutalism is to expose innards without guilt - If Cybertruck doesn't have non-structural decorations, farings, etc and it doesn't attempt to cover things up, that's pretty fucking Brutal.

<comment><USER22> I'm not sure whether a covered car can be brutalist, to be honest. When I think of a brutalist car design, I think of go-karts.

Other features of brutalist design:

* By exposing the skeleton, the object shows itself as a platform that can be built upon. However, the Cybertruck's convex hull and covered, armored plating do not lend themselves to confident self-expression, but instead drown out any attempt at customization.

* The purpose of the object is apparent and plain in its construction. The Cybertruck's wheels give away that it is a rolling vehicle of some sort, but otherwise its design does not indicate that it is road-worthy, fast, durable, rideable, etc.

* One of the article's main points: The object should, in its humility, elevate a shared societal viewpoint. Quoting from one of the experts in the article:

> The truck is consumerist, whereas brutalism's monumentality is civic. The > truck's boldness serves the bravado of an individual, whereas brutalism's > visual power was meant to project the shared dignity of the public realm.

The other quote that is worth repeating:

> [But] we don't see any bolts or gaskets or other details of joinery. > Brutalist architects would never allow this. They wanted the method of > making and the assembly of parts to be legible — to be put on display as a > way of being vividly honest. This was a core principle, and the sleek > machined quality of the Cybertruck is ultimately a disqualifying > characteristic.

<comment><USER23> Unnecessarily exposing innards doesn't feel brutalist to me. Covering up the innards is a functional requirement of being a reliable car - you don't want the engine exposed to the elements, for example. You don't want to expose the driver to rain and snow. You don't want to have the frame rust. A huge part of brutalism is not letting design compromise functioning of the object and not hiding the materials that compose the object.

Buildings that are considered brutalist still have walls and a roof, because you know, a building being covered by a roof and having walls is what creates room and space inside. There'd be no point to building it otherwise. But they don't worry about hiding the ductwork and piping inside because hiding it doesn't add to the functionality of the building.

In the cybertruck, the use of unpainted stainless steel is letting the inherent useful properties of the material shine - that's certainly brutalist. The material being difficult to work with is what created the harsh angles in the silhouette - again, that's brutalist.

<comment><USER21> I agree with you mostly - slight contradiction you say "Unncessarily" and then talk about the functional use of those covers to prevent water and snow ingress. I think what I was alluding to is that a piece of cover for 100% decorative use - no safety, functional or any reason but to make things look nice. That is the "guilt". :)

Definitely agree, unpainted stainless steel is a brutalist trait.

<comment><USER23> I suppose then you could argue about the inside of the car, as that is where most of the unnecessary covering would exist.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> crooked-v My snap judgment of the Cybertruck is vaporwave rather than brutalist... but that might just be from the similarity to a DeLorean's style.

</comment><comment><USER24> Besides the political slant, they appear to claim it isn't brutalist because it has no visible connectors or internals ... and then show photos of allegedly brutalist architecture with no visible connectors or internals.

</comment><comment><USER25> Of course it is not brutalist. "Brutalism" has become a buzzword just like "minimalism" 10 years ago. The shape, design and materials of this truck have absolutely nothing to do with "brutalist" architecture.

</comment><comment><USER26> So, it's not brutalist for political reasons. True brutalism is collectivist or civic whereas trucks are individualist.

Can't believe I read all the way to the Pseud's Corner wankery denouement.

</comment><comment><USER27> For cars that fulfill some of the ideas of brutalism, see dune buggies or Ariel Atom.

The truck can be called (neo-neo-)modernist since it does away with indulgent decorative curves that bulbous current cars are full of (thanks to people learning to produce panels of whatever which shape), with barely- comprehensible shapes of headlights spilling all over the hood and sides, and rather importantly with radiator grille and other front decorations which are the last bastion of recognizable brand imagery on the otherwise-identical cars of today.

The truck is a reaction to current trends, just like Rivian. And like design movements were reactions to the preceding ones during the whole of the twentieth century.

</comment><comment><USER28> Insofar as it isn't made out of beton brut, the Cybertruck(Good God How I Hate That Name) can't be called classically Brutalist.

Though I suppose a truck with a steel reinforced poured-concrete chassis is a little beyond even Musk's olympian ambitions.

</comment><comment><USER29> The seats are probably a little comfortable. True brutalism needs to crush the human spirit.

</comment><comment><USER30> Brutalist or not, it's not real.

That car as shown will absolutely not pass crash testing, European homologation and pedestrian impact, both issues with it being 1/8" stainless steel panels (separate discussion how those make no damn sense!). It has no mirrors, or wipers.

What has been shown is a roughly drawn concept.

Anyone that thinks they're going to get exactly that and exactly for $40,000 hasn't been around the concept car scene.

I'll engage discussions on this thing when it's not just a PR move.

(Source: automotive engineer)

<comment><USER31> I know nothing about cars, but I've been wondering how anything remotely resembling what was shown could pass a crash test. It's going to have to be radically transformed, so why bother even showing a design at this point?

<comment><USER30> My company has been through crash about three times at a million dollars a pop. I'm 99% certain that "truck" as shown will not pass.

Not even getting in to ped impact.

There is no way 1/8" steel panels will cut it. There will need to be some thin panels and some serious crumple zone going on "under the hood".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> tl;dr: The Cybertruck is not brutalist because it's designers do not promote the same politics as brutalist architects:

> But Banham and his fellow brutalists had a purpose behind their intense > design, something more than just a building.

> And on this, Pasnik, argues, the two groups — Brutalists and Tesla designers > — couldn't be more different....

> "The truck is consumerist, whereas brutalism's monumentality is civic. The > truck's boldness serves the bravado of an individual, whereas brutalism's > visual power was meant to project the shared dignity of the public realm."

<comment><USER33> > the sleek machined quality of the Cybertruck is ultimately a disqualifying > characteristic

<comment><USER32> That's a terrible objection (and is not the primary one made in the article, hence "tl;dr"). Brutalist architecture is _highly_ machined, and many famous examples are sleek, e.g., The Paulistano Athletic Club Gymnasium.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> A pickup truck is more Brutalist than the cybertruck.

<comment><USER35> A truck with the bed removed and the flatbed added seems appropriate.

[https://nationwideonlinetrailersales.com/products/pj- trailer...](https://nationwideonlinetrailersales.com/products/pj-trailers-gs- model-truckbed?variant=19968895090801&currency=USD)

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> This chart [1] is awesome reminder of a current state in car design.

Even without Tesla, a change is in dire need.

[https://www.dropbox.com/s/coe1mnbupjv8qbe/1_uEe9rvbQB8XM6uYW...](https://www.dropbox.com/s/coe1mnbupjv8qbe/1_uEe9rvbQB8XM6uYWT_6vng.jpeg?dl=0)

<comment><USER37> I mean, once you've accepted the basic requirements of:

* four wheels

* meets legal size limits

* reasonable aerodynamic characteristics

* room for passengers

* sufficiently sized windows and doors

* crumplezone

* reasonable collision and roll characteristics

* front that mitigates damage to pedestrians

* (for SUVs) large trunk with large door

* practical to manufacture

* etc

the design space is pretty limited, and so it's not surprising that all vehicles in a given class look pretty similar. It's like how most large planes look pretty similar - it's not laziness, it's optimization within constraints.

It's also worth noting that the Cybertruck, as shown, does not meet a lot of the basic requirements (rear views, windshield wipers, impact characteristics, headlight legality) so any shipping version will have to have a changes made towards a more traditional form.

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> Let's see what the actual selling price is. It's probably going to be very high by pickup standards. In which case the prestige value matters more than the functionality.

</comment><comment><USER39> If by bold you mean "looks like a stealth destroyer" then yes it's bold.

</comment><comment><USER40> We shall see if it becomes brutalist in the civic sense when self-driving.

</comment><comment><USER41> Aside: is anybody else having trouble reading the yellow-on-grey heading?

</comment><comment><USER42> The Cybertruck can't be brutalist because it us not ugly enough... At least it is far less ugly than anything properly called brutalist.

Its rather nice, comparable (but not as good) as e.g. the Lamborghini Countach and similar designs.

</comment><comment><USER43> so it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, an walks like a duck, but isn't a duck, because whoever made it wasn't thinking about ducks at the time.

i disagree. it's brutalist. the article says so. it meets all the criteria, except: it's a truck.

c'mon. that's reductive pedantry at its worst.

</comment><comment><USER44> No it's obviously vapor wave not brutalist.

</comment><comment><USER45> Maybe it's not brutalist, but it's certainly brutal to the eyes.

<comment><USER46> Behold the power of a mistranslation:

> The term 'brutalism' was coined by the British architects Alison and Peter > Smithson, and popularised by the architectural historian Reyner Banham in > 1954. It derives from 'Béton brut' (raw concrete) and was first associated > in architecture with Le Corbusier, who designed the Cite Radieuse in > Marseilles in the late-1940s.

But since the word can be used as an insult in English, it's used with no reference to its original meaning, obscuring the fact it's a botched translation.

<comment><USER43> linguistic shift. meanings and etymologies can drift over time.

in english, in the modern age, brutalist implies brutality.

<comment><USER47> No, it doesn't. No one is describing, say, the Geisel Library as 'brutal', unless they've heard that it is Brutalist and didn't understand the etymology.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> I honestly stopped reading when I read "brutalism experts"

<comment><USER49> Ok, but please don't post unsubstantive comments here.

</comment></comment><comment><USER50> Meanwhile, CyberTruck isn't allowed in West-Europe due to safety concerns.

It bends too little in case of an accident.

<comment><USER51> Nobody has crash-tested a Cybertruck yet...

<comment><USER52> this traffic pylon did

[https://gizmodo.com/elon-musk-hits-traffic-pylon-with-new- cy...](https://gizmodo.com/elon-musk-hits-traffic-pylon-with-new-cybertruck- after-1840307783)

<comment><USER35> Thanks for posting that, I had never seen the Cybertruck move. That looks terrible in motion. It moves like a toy and not in a good way. Something funky about the way the wheels fit in the wheel wells and the way it all goes together.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> The Cybertruck looks like it's designed by Howard Roark from the Fountainhead. I still don't know what to think about it.

</comment><comment><USER52> I don't think the truck's design will survive the trough of disillusionment. It's not a great or classic design, not even in the way that iphone-modernist- revival became classic.

Also the idea that brutalism could be something to aspire to is misguided

</comment><comment><USER54> Kind of off topic but:

> Mark Pasnik is a founding principal of the Boston-based design firm > OverUnder and a professor of architecture at Wentworth Institute of > Technology.

If you go to the OverUnder website, the proposal to "revamp" the existing Boston City Hall is just an admonition that brutalism sucks and is miserable to be around.

> The design creates vibrant counterpoints of light and liveliness to City > Hall's monumental framework. It proposes a series of tactical modifications > to the building's lowest and most public levels: clarifying way-finding; > improving views, light, and sustainability; occupying abandoned spaces; and > increasing the building's openness to the city.

> Daylight from the atrium would stream downward into what is presently a dark > hall. Light globes, colorful wall panels, and illuminated information > screens would create an animated atmosphere.

So, adding in all the things brutalism is not. Guys. Just tear the thing down. No amount of aesthetic improvements will make people like that place.

[http://overunder.co/work/architectural/Boston-City- Hall](http://overunder.co/work/architectural/Boston-City-Hall)

<comment><USER55> The Boston City Hall can suck without meaning that all brutalist architecture sucks. For example, the Glen Park BART station in SF is widely considered an architectural achievement

www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/amp/Glen-Park-BART-station-could-soon-be-an- official-14189658.php</comment></comment>


Early adopters and inverted social proof (2011) - <AUTHOR> http://ideolalia.com/early-adopters-and-inverted-social-proof/index.html <comment><USER2> > But in a new social product, there is no social proof. The groups, if they > exist at all, will be sparse and ill-defined. So with no social insights to > be gained, what brings in the early adopters?

Or maybe they just want the cool new gadget and aren't actually busy trying to signal things?</comment>


7 Lessons Learned from 7 Years of using WordPress  - <AUTHOR> http://wplift.com/7-lessons-learned-from-7-years-of-using-wordpress

<comment><USER2> I don't see why a post like this provokes criticism. I think it was more "I've used WP for 7 years, here are some potentially helpful tips that I learned within that time span at some point." Not "I've toiled with WP for 7 years and it's taken me exactly that long to learn to cache/backup/etc my site."

Anyway, thanks for the post. It was full of helpful reminders.

</comment><comment><USER3> >`Learned from 7 Years`

I'm sorry but if it took you 7 years to figure out things like caching your site, updating it to avoid exploits, having a good theme, backing-up your files, etc. then you are doing it wrong. These are all very basic principles that WordPress has recommended for as far back as I can remember. Especially backing up WordPress regularly.

</comment><comment><USER4> I was hoping for something on server optimization. This is pretty basic stuff. More geared for about.com than hackernews readers.</comment>


A Service Mesh for Kubernetes: Continuous Deployment via Traffic Shifting - <AUTHOR> https://blog.buoyant.io/2016/11/04/a-service-mesh-for-kubernetes-part-iv-continuous-deployment-via-traffic-shifting/ <comment><USER2> I helped to write this post and would be happy to answer questions that folks might have.</comment>


Show HN: ImageBrowser.app – An animated image browser for OS X - <AUTHOR> https://www.robert-novak.com/index.php/products/

<comment><AUTHOR> Hello All,

I've been using this site for a while now, but I've always been way too shy/scared about submitting my own work.

But, I figured it was time, and I'm somewhat proud of what I've done, though I'm still working on it.

The app available on that Blog page was something I wrote about a year ago now, though I've been slow to update due to personal issues. I'm taking up working on it again, and it would be great to get some feedback.

The features requested/bugs noted through the App store are what I'm working on now, as well as supporting User Defaults, and providing some basic preferences around how the User wants it to interact.

There aren't any ads of any kind, and it should be pretty simple to run on a Mac Laptop.

I _think_ I compiled the version available on that site for 10.9, though I can re-compile for at least 10.7 (I don't use any APIs that were introduced solely after that period).

Any and All feedback is greatly appreciated.

I apologize that this is hosted on a WordPress site, if anyone really cares.</comment>


The real reason for large DDoS attacks? It's IP Spoofing, not memcached - <AUTHOR> https://blog.cloudflare.com/the-root-cause-of-large-ddos-ip-spoofing/ <comment><USER2> Your incumbent won't do filtering. Your incumbent won't maintain proper 'route' objects [https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and- asns/db/support/managing...](https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and- asns/db/support/managing-route-objects-in-the-irr) Your shoestring independent ISP won't to that either. Who is left? Tier1 ISP and some of them do BCP38 filtering sometimes on some ports.

<comment><USER3> As someone who has been doing 'shoestring independent ISPs' for almost 15 years my impression is that nearly all upstream providers (the ones we buy service from - not always but sometimes tier 1 providers) do outgoing IP filtering. Whenever I get a new IPv4 allocation from ARIN (at least when we used to be able to do that - they're all gone now) we had to go through a process with our upstream provider so that they would allow our BGP advertisements for that block as well as allow those source addresses to route through their network.

<comment><USER4> They may filter what routes you can advertise via BGP, but nearly every Tier 1(And most Tier 2) providers will accept traffic sourced from any IP address. I handle about 10 different connections and can source traffic from any IP on all of them.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Are there any valid technical use-cases for IP spoofing? i.e. setting the source address of a UDP packet as one outside the originating network?

For example, on the server side, BGP hijacking and anycast routing are enabled by the same bug or feature, depending how you look at it.

<comment><USER6> There's one reason I could think of. Combining two Internet lines together to get a faster connection. I blogged about this a few years back

[https://omri.org.il/2014/08/08/hacking-asymmetric-and- symmet...](https://omri.org.il/2014/08/08/hacking-asymmetric-and-symmetric- lines-together/)

<comment><USER7> Pretty cool! Are you still doing that??

<comment><USER6> Nope. The company was shut down

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> >Let's take a deep breath and discuss why such large DDoS attacks are even possible on the modern internet.

Because all traffic is treated at face value and not deep filtered and throttled according to some company's whims.

Cloudflare wants to change this. Cloudflare wants centralization. Cloudflare wants blacklists.

<comment><USER9> Is egress filtering really that egregious?

<comment><USER10> Does it profit the ISPs to avoid/neglect egress filtering?

Who stands to gain from this and how much are they willing to kickback for "looking the other way"?

<comment><USER11> Bad/undesired decisions don't require blatant corruption. This seems a simple case of poor incentives. If an ISP does egress filtering well, essentially no one notices. If they screw it up, customers lose connectivity and some portion of those customers will likely leave for a competitor. There's risk with no reward.

<comment><USER12> Couldn't there perhaps be a financial incentive by reducing the amount of superfluous data on their networks?

<comment><USER11> Apparently not given the lack of action.

I'm not sure DDOS traffic is really significant from an egress standpoint.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> If anyone here has run Spoofer:

[https://www.caida.org/projects/spoofer/](https://www.caida.org/projects/spoofer/)

What was your experience?

<comment><USER14> I've run on a few my hosts - spoofing was filtered.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> This is a refreshing change from cloudflare. Back when recursive DNS was the amplification de jour they complained about DNS instead of IP spoofing.

[https://blog.cloudflare.com/the-ddos-that-knocked- spamhaus-o...](https://blog.cloudflare.com/the-ddos-that-knocked-spamhaus- offline-and-ho/)

<comment><USER16> This is an odd change from Cloudflare. Were it not for the DDoS amplification problem it'd be perfectly reasonable to make recursive DNS servers publicly accessible, but memcached servers should never be exposed to the public internet - they're not designed to be and doing so allows everyone to exfiltrate, modify or delete the cached data which you almost certainly don't want to be possible.

<comment><USER15> Right, exposing a memcached server is bad because memcached isn't meant to be public. However, in the context of DRDoS discussions it doesn't matter if the UDP service is good for public exposure. That's completely a distraction from the underlying IP spoofing disease that enables attacks on all connectionless protocols.</comment></comment></comment>


Forests disappearing since 2000? Google cloud maps global changes - <AUTHOR> http://www.nbcnews.com/science/forests-disappearing-2000-google-cloud-maps-global-changes-2D11591792 <comment><USER2> This is an excellent public resource, the likes of which individual governments _should_ be releasing.

Three areas of personal interest.

(1) Northern New Zealand is also a forestry culture, and shows the appearance and culling of dense pine forests.

(2) The areas around southwestern China, just across the border in to Burma, show clearly the impact of China's demand for timber. While rubber plantations can account for the small amount of replanting visible, the recent denuding of the Kachin states of northern Myanmar (an armed Christian minority that eschews membership of Myanmar entirely) is here very visible... particularly areas around Myitkina (the Kachin capital), Hpakant (slightly west) and the southerly adjacent Shwegu. An unending stream of trucks carries these forests in to China for consumption as wood carvings and luxury furniture, often processed by western-supplied high volume industrial sawmill equipment (one supplier is a New Zealand company). Much like illegally logged timber from West Africa, this furniture may then be trans-shipped to western nations (eg. Europe) where distributors feign ignorance of its unsustainable origin, citing the vacuous claims of Chinese factories. In exchange, the theory is that the Kachin receive weapons and covert medical assistance for their leadership (similar to other groups, such as the Shan and Wa armies to the southeast).

(3) The deforestation of North Korea in exchange for pitiful trade volumes from China and unsustainable timber/charcoal driven winter heating (due to inadequate clothing and uninsulated housing conditions) is also very clear. The area near Changbaishan (Baekdusan), Korean culture's most sacred mountain (now 50% owned by China) is particularly bad.</comment>


Show HN: My Indie Hacker goal - Earn $100 a day to keep your desk job away - <AUTHOR> My goal when I first started as an Indie Hacker was to earn $100/day.
Everything that I did was to achieve that goal. I reached that goal after 6 months and I increased my goal to $200/day. I reached that goal a year back, now my current goal is $300/day. This might look small sometimes and easy to achieve but it's not and when you get small wins, you move to a bigger goal all the while maintaining the momentum and enthusiasm.
On the flips side, if I had set my goal to $10K/month, it would seem very big and I might have given up very early (Actually I wouldn't because I quit my job  and hate 9 to 5 job). A lot of people might not see any gratification anytime soon with big goals. Its always good to set small realistic goals which will ultimately make you a successful maker in the long run.
So far i have built
https://acrypto.io/ topping $4000/month
https://visalist.io/ topping $7000/month
https://simpleops.io/ topping $8000/month <comment><USER2> "This might look small sometimes and easy to achieve but it's not"

I would never think that. $200 a day is fantastic! And $300 seems like quite a goal! Good for you. This must have required a lot of work, and I'm sure there were failures along the way.

What's your secret? How do you decide which projects to work on?

<comment><AUTHOR> I pick the problems I faced personally to solve and that has been very successful.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I'm curious how you've even achieved $100 per day. Did you have a sizeable following on social media or an email list to get your first customers? I wouldn't call any of these milestones "small" or "easy", that's just ridiculous.

<comment><AUTHOR> No, actually I didn't have any twitter followers and no email list aswell. I did few things right. I didn't mean the goal was very easy but because I set it relatively small instead settings it very big. This helped a lot.

<comment><USER3> Alright, thanks for answering. What things would you consider being crucial to be done right though?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Nice! inspirational. What do you prefer using for micro startups for client side / serverside? I see you mention vue and nuxtjs for client side on other articles, what hosting providers do you recommend to keep costs low?

<comment><AUTHOR> anything that is easy to build and costs you less. i user GCP servers for all my microstartups but digital ocean is the cheapest.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Congrats. How are you marketing these initially since they are in different markets? Are you building/maintaining (and updating) all these actively?

Curious on the strategy here of launching more products over time versus scaling projects up.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm working on one microstartup at a time, then after growing one, I try to fully automate it and start building a new one.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Congrats. Just curious, what are your revenue sources- ads or paid subscriptions?

<comment><AUTHOR> There are actually different sources Acrypto has Subscription and ads Visa list has affiliates, subscriptions and ads Simple ops has subscriptions

</comment></comment><comment> lord-squirrel You are such a big inspiration for me

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks a lot mate!

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> can share your journey and what resources you refered for learning things

</comment><comment><USER8> Keep the spirits high

<comment><AUTHOR> cheers mate!</comment></comment>


Grover's Algorithm - <AUTHOR> https://leimao.github.io/blog/Grover-Algorithm/ <comment><USER2> I'll ask the simple question of "are we there yet"? Can we run algorithms like this for meaningful amounts of data on a quantum computer?</comment>


Toward the next generation of programming tools - <AUTHOR> https://www.oreilly.com/ideas/toward-the-next-generation-of-programming-tools <comment><USER2> It's CASE (Computer Aided Software Engineering) all over again! This idea rears its (ugly) head every few years. It isn't a help to programmers.

The reason we use text for programming isn't "because punch cards," though as a former IBM mainframe programmer I appreciate the analogy. It's because text is an incredibly efficient way of communicating even the most complex information.

A side note here: One of the reasons for Korea's rise to power as an "Asian Tiger" is that, many moons ago, one of their emperors decided to break away from the Chinese system of pictographs and replace it with a phonetic alphabet, allowing anyone to spell and pronounce words. The result was one of the highest degrees of literacy among nations anywhere. Alphabets are good for communicating with people and with processors, too.

</comment><comment><USER3> I don't get this push towards visual programming. Visual programming works great for visual stuff (for example the Forms builder in VB6) but for general programming, not so much.

Programming is about abstract communication. If you look at human history, we see a progression from visual (cave drawings, pictograms) to text (cuneiform, alphabetic languages).

If you look at law which is in the business of trying to specifying stuff in detail, the murder statutes are written in text, not with pictures of knives and guns and a big red "x".

</comment><comment><USER4> This is a funny article. The author essentially says,

"Alan Kay says software is bad but he isn't being entirely fair; he's missing things -- small, incremental improvements in some tools."

and

"The future will be visual programming. I have no idea what it could look like. But it's already happening. But not in a concrete way. But it could happen and in fact it would be easy if we weren't stuck in the past."</comment>


Web Applications - <AUTHOR> http://valums.com/web-apps/ <comment><USER2> Nice overview.

Disadvantages of web app dev was kind of glossed over though.

I would add that web app development becomes exponentially more difficult than programming desktop apps when it comes to UX/UI. It's clear that CSS was devised for websites, _not_ web apps.

To some degree this seems to have influenced how web apps look and feel. The exception would be Google which makes web apps that feel like desktop apps. 280North also comes to mind.</comment>


Announcing YoLang: A zero-purpose programming language - <AUTHOR> http://yolang.org

<comment><USER2> As the reference manual[0] notes, this is just Brainfuck[1] but with a different set of characters for the operations.

[0] [http://yolang.org/reference](http://yolang.org/reference)

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck)</comment>


Show HN: Dynamic load balancing with Docker containers – without swarm mode - <AUTHOR> http://olicallaghan.com/post/dynamic-load-balancing-with-docker-and-haproxy <comment><USER2> Very thorough write-up, looks like a good approach.

A couple of points though:

1) You have a race condition in haproxy.js. If an addNode function is interleaved with a removeNode function, you could have the following result:

      removeNode reads the file
      removeNode replaces the matching line with nothing
      addNode appends a line to the file
      removeNode writes the string to the file

Now, addNode has returned true, but its given server is removed immediately because removeNode is not atomic.

2) in the // Remove Nodes block, why do you only kill the container when `n == rmNodes - 1`. Say you have 2 nodes to remove, this would remove both from the HAProxy config, but only kill the second of the containers, right?</comment>


Trapping giant Rydberg atoms for faster quantum computers - <AUTHOR> http://www.ns.umich.edu/htdocs/releases/story.php?id=7685 <comment> daniel-cussen Can anyone weigh in on this? Is this as big a deal as it makes out to be?</comment>


The Interactive Way to Go - <AUTHOR> http://playgo.to/iwtg/en/

<comment><USER2> Go, the game... Not the programming language as I expected on HN...

But some of its ancient Japanese wisdom is timeless ;-)

'Basically, I don't provide answers to problems because you will eventually find them by yourself after retrying many times.'

<comment><USER3> It's a chinese game, though.

<comment><USER4> Sure, but it's been played in Japan for over 1000 years, which is plenty long enough to have developed "ancient Japanese wisdom".

<comment><USER5> "Ancient Japanese wisdom" (and art, philosophy, etc) is mostly re-packaged ancient Chinese wisdom.

<comment><USER5> Perhaps some people thought this was some kind of racist remark?

I'm not Chinese, and this is a historical fact.

Japanese borrowed heavily from the (earlier and more advanced) Chinese civilization.

<comment><USER6> so on the assumption that go is a chinese game, japanese cant have a wisdom on it? that would be same than saying: Ok C-UNIX has been made by an american guy so no one can have wisdom on it except americans?

<comment><USER5> Sure they can, hence the "mostly" part. Of course in the course of centuries they've also diverged, as the once underdeveloped (compared to China) Japan started developing its own identity and variations.

Heck, even the 20th century provided enough rapid variation between the 2 countries.

That why I was talking about the "ancient wisdom" being repackaged.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I just went through the whole tutorial. This was a great introduction to the game. I've glanced at other tutorials in the past, but I could not really follow what was going on. After this tutorial, I feel I could actually play a game! I would lose horribly, but I could play and understand what is happening.

</comment><comment><USER8> Waiting for an argument about how Rust is better than Go...

Neither the language nor ancient game have generics yet.

</comment><comment><USER9> A WGo.js version of this would be cool. [http://wgo.waltheri.net/player](http://wgo.waltheri.net/player)

</comment><comment><USER10> Man, we need this for bridge

<comment><USER11> This was one of my favorite resources for learning:

[http://www.acbl.org/learn_page/learn-to-play-bridge- software...](http://www.acbl.org/learn_page/learn-to-play-bridge-software/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> THIS WASN'T GOLANG AT ALL!!!!

</comment><comment><USER13> Please remove GIF homepage link.</comment>


Update: Why Face Masks Don't Work (2016) - <AUTHOR> https://www.oralhealthgroup.com/features/face-masks-dont-work-revealing-review/ <comment><USER2> "The primary reason for mandating the wearing of face masks is to protect dental personnel from airborne pathogens. This review has established that face masks are incapable of providing such a level of protection. Unless the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, national and provincial dental associations and regulatory agencies publically admit this fact, they will be guilty of perpetuating a myth which will be a disservice to the dental profession and its patients."

Archived snapshot: [https://archive.is/6bE19](https://archive.is/6bE19)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Aside, the (2016) tag added here is incorrect; the original article was from 2016, the suppression of it (which is the story) is from a few days ago.

</comment><comment><USER3> > Yesterday's Scientific Dogma is Today's Discarded Fable

The longer I live, the more this becomes apparent.

Makes me think of perennial wisdom warning against hubris (of which the credentialed and political seem to be full of).

</comment><comment><USER4> Irrelevant article from 2016

<comment><AUTHOR> Indeed it is, the point being that the mask hysteria has reached such a level that irrelevant articles must be suppressed for the sake of it. What was unscientific has become anti-scientific.</comment></comment>


Writing a Perl 6 blogging app in 90 minutes - <AUTHOR> http://use.perl.org/~masak/journal/38946

<comment><USER2> An offhand comment on the value of positioning as marketing: you'll note that they don't mention Rails at all but its impossible to read that title without thinking a) "I could do that in Rails in 15 minutes" b) "No, really, that isn't just meaningless language boasting -- there's a video" and c) it would have actually worked.

Personally, if I were writing an article about my web framework of choice, I'd eschew the blogging example and pick something where I could leverage some of the massive goodness available on CPAN.

(The more I learn about marketing the more I see it _everywhere_.)

<comment><USER3> That Rails video was the first thing that came to mind when I read the title.

Actually, that screencast was exactly what stopped me from indulging in Rails the first time I came across it. I don't find 'here is how you scaffold an entire app in 15 minutes' is a selling point for any framework in any language.

This might appeal to some people who are not programming inclined, but not the ones who are going to contribute and build your framework further.

<comment><USER2> _This might appeal to some people who are not programming inclined, but not the ones who are going to contribute and build your framework further._

I devoutly hope that my marketing fails as much as Rails' did, then.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Misleading title. A prototype can take minutes. A real app takes weeks, months or years of incorporating user feedback, bug fixes, patching security holes, etc.

All these articles do is fool non-software people into thinking that they can expect someone to build what they need for the cost of a few hours of consulting time and that it will be a finished, full-featured product.

</comment><comment><USER5> Incorrect title: It took 130 minutes and even then he never said if he managed to even get things like posting working.

<comment><USER6> Title doesn't say he _managed_ it. He tried, and failed.

<comment><AUTHOR> No the author does clearly say that he got it working after 130 minutes.

I think the confusion is that the author is referring to fact he used GET (query strings) for "posting" because POST isn't currently available/working in Web.pm

<comment><USER6> Sorry, I wasn't clear: he failed to get it working _in 90 minutes_.

The title's not incorrect, as it doesn't claim he managed to do it, it's only ambiguous because of all the linkbait titles like "Making a Rails twitter clone in 28 seconds" that are out there.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I perused the source on git and at least perl 6 isn't completely Greek to me.

Or should I say - isn't completely Brainfuck to me!</comment>


Ask HN: What is the best stylus for iPad mini to take math notes? - <AUTHOR>

What is the best stylus for iPad mini to take math notes?<p>More specific: Wacom Bamboo or Adonit Jot Pro or Applydea Maglus? Thanks. <comment><USER2> The digitizers in the current iPad models are not high-resolution enough to permit anything more than rudimentary drawings or large scribbles of text. Do not expect Tablet PC/OneNote-like performance at all.

That said, I like the Bamboo Stylus and that one seemed to be the best- regarded when I purchased it.</comment>


The Product Bay (Pirate Bay for personal fabrication) - <AUTHOR> http://theproductbay.org/

<comment><USER2>
      <ACHTUNG> Vaporware Ahead! </ACHTUNG>

But, I'll support the spirit/thought anyway.

Relevant: Free e-book of Engines of Creation by Eric Drexler, <http://e-drexler.com/d/06/00/EOC/EOC_Table_of_Contents.html> (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engines_of_Creation>)

</comment><comment><USER3> you wouldn't download a car

</comment><comment><USER4> I think there would be nothing cooler than to be able to "pirate" food. Farming would become a niche operation for those who love it, and those who want "real" food, while most of the world would live on "photocopied" watermelon, bread, and steak.

<comment><AUTHOR> See [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto_Canada_Inc._v._Schmeis...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto_Canada_Inc._v._Schmeiser)

Monsanto (maker of 90% of genetically engineered seeds, 46B market cap) sued a neighboring farmer for patent infringement after their seeds were found in his field, which he harvested, and later resold as feed...

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I believe this idea was part of Snow Crash, and also a premise of Cory Doctorow's "Makers." (Except the means of production are centralized in Makers, iirc.)

</comment><comment><USER6> there's nothing there aside from a big banner ad. what is interesting about the site? did I miss something?

</comment><comment><USER7> i didnt understand this at all..can some one explain this to me ,please. . .

</comment><comment><USER8> Ah, yes. This has been mentioned in concept by various blogs, but nobody's done anything more than Thingaverse yet.

Iiiinteresting.

</comment><comment><USER9> Shapeways?</comment>


Rave.dj – an artificially intelligent mash-up machine - <AUTHOR> https://rave.dj <comment><USER2> This is how well thought out products look like.

\- Really simple and intuitive start. I created my first mashup within first 2 minutes and at all times knew exactly what I was doing

\- Inbuilt virality. People _will_ show off their produced mixes to their friends and on social media.

\- Actually solves a pain point. How many of us have tried mixing songs and gave up? This gives a sense of creativity while taking care of all the complexity.

Even though I don't know how they'll monetize this, it seems a really well thought out product.

<comment><USER3> Not only that, but the small things like mashing up the song title and album art truly make this a quality product.

Here is my first try: Disclosure - Bang That + The XX - On Hold = Hold That

[https://rave.dj/1F1p4ZS9ipWmYA](https://rave.dj/1F1p4ZS9ipWmYA)

<comment><USER4> I tried to give it a challenge, mixing two completely different genres of music – medieval with rap. Amazingly the medieval tune followed the beat of the rap song.

[https://rave.dj/h3o1s4nrg5d2sQ](https://rave.dj/h3o1s4nrg5d2sQ)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Ok. I think I nailed the perfect one: [https://rave.dj/ySGzN-0svLlPpA](https://rave.dj/ySGzN-0svLlPpA)

<comment><USER6> Wow, I have to say I'm kind of amazed this mashup was generated and not hand- crafted..

<comment><USER7> Really.. it sounds like someone just hit play on two songs at the same time to me. Beatmatching is trivial.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> At great risk of sounding haughty, as someone who's perhaps a bit more into the DJing scene than what's probably the average HN user, all of these sound horrible. Beat matching is the easiest part of DJing, and that's about all that this tool does, so I don't think it's solving any DJing problems specifically.

One thing that it does do is take away the turntable GUI (or hardware) and replace it with a two-field upload form, radically reducing the amount of know-how required to perform beat-matching. That's just really scratching the surface of what a lot of "live" DJs do (as they're called these days), as many are bringing instruments like drums and saxophones (see Big Gigantic[1]), keyboards and vocoders (see Lorenz Rhode[2]), their voice (see Gallago[3]), and traditional African drums (see Black Motion[4]), let alone simple song selection and set progression - "reading the crowd".

[1] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkxMjfYOE-g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkxMjfYOE-g)

[2] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwf2uvWlL_c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwf2uvWlL_c)

[3] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmCFPjwlxIU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmCFPjwlxIU)

[4] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHEc9uA2Zmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHEc9uA2Zmw)

When the tool comes along that can style-transfer two songs in the same way that it can for images, then I will admit that AI is on the verge of taking our music-creating/music-playing jobs. But for now, I'm satisfied that there's a bit more to the depth of DJing than that what an AI can learn.

<comment><USER9> Hey, I'm one of the devs at Rave.

I posted some general responses here: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17852736](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17852736)

We're aiming to make the process as simple as possible, so anyone can make mashups/mixes, and will add on customizations over time. Our focus first and foremost will be to make sure that the core process is solid before we add on to it.

Our AI does do more than beatmatching as well. Though a lot of that is going to be more evident in our mix AI, which we've been focusing on recently.

<comment><USER10> There are a lot of "mixes" on youtube for electronic music that have great track selection but do simple fades because they don't have the technical skills. If this technology helps them solve that then it would improve my listening experience dramatically.

<comment><USER9> That is actually precisely what we're aiming to solve! Give those who don't have the technical skills, a means to get the best result they can get, while letting them focus on the part that is important to them: the music selection.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> So I tried to mix two guitar-heavy songs that were bound to be incompatible and the results are kind of okay. Only one has vocals and it comes out way out of tune, but the general development of the songs fits well. It somewhat feels that this has more to do with the predictable sequence of verse/chorus/verse bars in pop music. But eh.

The video is pretty good too:

[https://rave.dj/dBgxMMEtR9j-nw](https://rave.dj/dBgxMMEtR9j-nw)

\----

Edit: Here's an example of an utter failure that illustrates my hypothesis: it mixes a song that has a traditional verse/chorus/verse structure with a techno track that's a monotonic crescendo. The algorithm doesn't know what to do about it (the correct answer, although not leading to great music, would be to use parts from the begginning of the crescendo track so not to overpower the pop song.)

[https://rave.dj/-Ls2Nu6CPD0Ssw](https://rave.dj/-Ls2Nu6CPD0Ssw)

Edit 2: Here's an easy one it gets wrong: track 1 has great loopable instrumental grooves that go on each for a few bars before rap vocals kick in. Track 2 is a person talking. It should _not_ be overlapping vocals, it should just highlight the instrumental loops.

[https://rave.dj/acvjP2J3oQWF4Q](https://rave.dj/acvjP2J3oQWF4Q)

<comment><USER12> I think the tracks needs to carefully picked by a human first, then it can turn out good. Too many chords and melodies in both tracks just creates a mess. Pure drum and beat tracks on top of melodies seems to be an easy combo:

Covers on top of the original was a surprising success:

[https://rave.dj/ArkBRLe-216kdg](https://rave.dj/ArkBRLe-216kdg)

[https://rave.dj/Pty3Hy1Fum9Tag](https://rave.dj/Pty3Hy1Fum9Tag)

Pure drum tracks plus acapella:

[https://rave.dj/3K-oowQBpD09GA](https://rave.dj/3K-oowQBpD09GA)

<comment><USER11> But dissonant melodies can sound good; for a while bitonalism (some Debussy; most notoriously Darius Milhaud) was a compromise or a gateway drug to straight atonalism. My first example has vocals in a different key from the guitar, but the song structure works.

Basically mixing _any_ pop songs work -- here's a very very very good one with Sepultura + Pet Shop Boys

[https://rave.dj/SENYa64kow5OLg](https://rave.dj/SENYa64kow5OLg)

... the point being that pop music is very very regular in its verse/chorus/verse narrative curve.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> If there's any Eurovision geeks here, I tried putting two Eurovision songs together, and now I can't stop watching "I Feed You My Rhythm Inside" by Margaret Berger vs Loïc Nottet. I must have played this 10 times in a row now.

[https://rave.dj/_sYhWmI-iHgq_Q](https://rave.dj/_sYhWmI-iHgq_Q)

<comment><USER14> After watching this, I want to watch another, similar mashup. This site could really use a recommendation/autoplay system, and I could listen for hours. Maybe I've been watching Youtube too much.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> As long as there's a pretty predictable 4/4 beat, it seems to do well.

[https://rave.dj/fR61DJEv2DP4Tw](https://rave.dj/fR61DJEv2DP4Tw)

DJ AssultPink - Ass ' n ' TT

Although the BPM detection usually works, It seems to have trouble getting the songs synced in phrase - 2nd tracks come in starting on the 3rd bar or something.

</comment><comment><USER16> If there is someone here who also played Donkey Kong Country 2 in his/her childhood: Some of its tunes make for a pretty decent hip hop beat.

[https://rave.dj/sRxPBRstYvXeuw](https://rave.dj/sRxPBRstYvXeuw)

</comment><comment><USER17> That blur filter absolutely annihilates my macbook's CPU.

EDIT: 4 hours remaining... hmmm.. feeding it a 400 track playlist probably wasn't a good idea

</comment><comment><USER18> Tried to use some generic pop songs ( [https://rave.dj/BtHuRn1-lAnDEQ](https://rave.dj/BtHuRn1-lAnDEQ) \- [madonna - hung up] & [ timbaland - the way i are ]) and result is not bad at all, a bit cacophonous in some parts, but other than that it's [the smashup] quite good!

</comment><comment><USER19> Interesting mashup -

[https://rave.dj/ac-w-nK_8vCiFQ](https://rave.dj/ac-w-nK_8vCiFQ)

I tested - Run DMC - It's like that vs Funky Town.

<comment><USER20> Run DMC vs. Toni Basil - 'Hey Trickey' did not turn out as good as I'd hoped:

[https://rave.dj/KEmdgiqJTerSEg](https://rave.dj/KEmdgiqJTerSEg)

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> A few Raves I did that I like (most are with It's Everyday Bro because rave.dj tends to work well with that song):

[https://rave.dj/kzPLdIZQmIsS0Q](https://rave.dj/kzPLdIZQmIsS0Q)

[https://rave.dj/y1qMUYY7GbNmKA](https://rave.dj/y1qMUYY7GbNmKA)

[https://rave.dj/JaJYoO_hBQNkjw](https://rave.dj/JaJYoO_hBQNkjw)

[https://rave.dj/U4BPJ9duII-o9Q](https://rave.dj/U4BPJ9duII-o9Q) (gets off- sync later sadly)

[https://rave.dj/Xx-6ojmH86hxpA](https://rave.dj/Xx-6ojmH86hxpA)

None of these are perfect but Rave is A LOT of fun to mess around with, there's no denying that.

<comment><USER22> I think you'd probably like making a mix too! [https://www.rave.dj/iOfKQXFw3TxTWA](https://www.rave.dj/iOfKQXFw3TxTWA)

Just provide ~50 or more songs for best results

<comment><USER21> I've done it before, those are a lot of fun too.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> It produces some quite funky technical death metal too.

[https://rave.dj/ULx2nBaldJ9ocw](https://rave.dj/ULx2nBaldJ9ocw)

<comment> maze-le This one is great! My grindcore experiment wans't too successful, but it gave me a chuckle anyway.

Nasum & Napalm Death: Face the Children

[0]: [https://rave.dj/yjDMS4Pu0a81ZA](https://rave.dj/yjDMS4Pu0a81ZA) (Napalm Death: Suffer the Children vs. Nasum: The Masked Face)

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> Seems to be pretty awesome. I tested out two instrumental bits in Hardwell - Spaceman and SHM - Greyhound and found that the algorithm had some issues with the low end clashing on mixing between the songs [https://rave.dj/qP- eYlelx75GjQ](https://rave.dj/qP-eYlelx75GjQ) Though it leveled out after a few seconds. Would love to know more about how it works!

<comment><USER25> Definitely. I'm so curious.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> Rammstein Vs. Crazy Town. Dark :-)

Du By The Hast [https://rave.dj/sN4EnkKdPfj-ow](https://rave.dj/sN4EnkKdPfj- ow)

</comment><comment><USER27> Just one side note, that moving background is giving me motion sickness :) But I am gonna probably spend a lot of time, making mixes...

<comment><USER28> Yes, this background video makes for a terrible experience. I know it looks cool and startupy (at least it did in 2015) but this trend has to stop.

Ended up hiding it with an ad blocker rule.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Hey all! I'm one of the devs at Rave (working on the website). This is really cool to see all this interest in us!

To address a few points I've seen on here: We do more than just beatmatching. That said, most of our recent technical advancements are done on our mix AI, as it's been our recent push. Give mixes a try (which work better the more songs you give them)! We'll be pivoting back to mashups soon as well to continue improvements on that AI, particularly rolling in some of the improvements we developed through the mix AI.

Our goals have really been to bring mashups and mixes to those who don't have the technical ability first and foremost, and focus on making it as accessible as possible. We want to make sure our baseline is solid before targeting customizations. I feel paraschopra's post really captured what we wanted to achieve.

Ultimately, we're still at the beginning of what we want to do, and have plenty of improvements on the way.

<comment><USER29> Some feedback:

* Awesome job, here are some feature suggestions:

* The ability to rate the mix/mashup as the author

* The ability to rate as an audience

* visual of the algo's understanding of the songs sound profile and how its lining them up

* The ability to select the time-range of the song which must be included/excluded from the mix

* ability to ask it to weight a repeating frequency of a song

* name of the artist/track/video playing displayed

\---

Where are you guys located?

<comment><USER22> Good suggestions, we're located in Kitchener Ontario Canada.

RE: "ability to ask it to weight a repeating frequency of a song" \- you'd want songs to appear in your mix more than once?

<comment><USER29> Yes, if I am mixing a series of my favorite songs... also I may want it to mix from A B C B A B C A to see how that sounds...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> And a surprisingly successful merger of Cutty Ranks and Abba with the awesome title of "Limb Queen"

[https://rave.dj/Mgv2ZGiuYfNnow](https://rave.dj/Mgv2ZGiuYfNnow)

I giggled all the way through it. A bit of better volume balancing where the two songs overlap and I'd play that at a party with no regrets...

<comment><USER31> nice - as you say, would be better if the Abba track was lower in the mix when it first comes in, but the timing and parts used to bring it in are spot on.

Perhaps the algorithm would do better with better quality versions of the track rather than youtube quality?

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> Pretty interesting. I used to be heavily into the mashup scene, even going so far as to make mashup.fm (another turntable/plug.dj clone). Here's some of my favorite classical mashups alongside the rave.dj version:

Thomas the Tank Engine vs Biggie Smalls

Original: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETfiUYij5UE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETfiUYij5UE)

Rave.dj: [https://rave.dj/XUBqv8IsZPVZMQ](https://rave.dj/XUBqv8IsZPVZMQ)

This was the easiest as it's just a vocal track laid onto a beat, but it really jumps the tracks around a ton, seemingly randomly. It at least doesn't jump mid-measure though and fits with the beat.

\</comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment>

Modest Mouth (Modest Mouse vs Smashmouth)

Original: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEmJH7JsKgM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEmJH7JsKgM)

Rave.dj: [https://rave.dj/gUb_lU_PrHBdKA](https://rave.dj/gUb_lU_PrHBdKA)

The Neil C original is a classic, and really fits two songs together that don't belong near each other. Rave plays the intros in sequential order, with vocals overlapping all over. They really need a central channel filter to see if they can pop the vocals out from the instrumentals. This is really a tuesday-surprise lunchroom casserole of a mashup, with a rather abrupt ending.

\</comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment>

Korn vs Taylor Swift

Original: [https://soundcloud.com/user-490703809/we-are-coming- undone-k...](https://soundcloud.com/user-490703809/we-are-coming-undone-korn- taylor-swift-mashup-by-isonsine)

Rave.dj: [https://rave.dj/usdGtcmoNJeItg](https://rave.dj/usdGtcmoNJeItg)

This one really works because of some of the more complex editing on Isosine's part. The rave one is a disaster. Feels like you're standing in between two parties that are blasting two jams, that just happened to have their drops/choruses line up.

\</comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment>

Kanye West vs The Beatles

Original: [http://mashup.fm/media/Hey_Jude_We_Major_More_Popular_than_J...](http://mashup.fm/media/Hey_Jude_We_Major_More_Popular_than_Jesus_- _Kanye_West_The_Beatles-105124470.mp3)

Rave.dj: [https://rave.dj/ZcRpPLK6QZEvZA](https://rave.dj/ZcRpPLK6QZEvZA)

This is a personal favorite, and I think it works because of how long the Hey Jude intro is. It really means you forget about Kanye completely until he jumps in. It works because of how slow of a buildup Hey Jude is. The Rave version has no nuance here. They speed up Hey Jude, up-pitching it in the process and making it sound like Raffi or some other child entertainer. They down pitch Kanye, making him seem like some gangsta thug. It really doesn't work at all.

\</comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment>

I really want this to become better, but I feel like it needs to be trained more tricks (vocal separation for one) to really be worth it. Also minor QOL improvement would be to allow you to preview tracks before you add them to the mix. Hard to find one that's a good audio only rip of a song sometimes.

<comment><USER33> Enya vs. The prodigy

Original: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5knIIyKpSK4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5knIIyKpSK4)

Rave.dj: [https://rave.dj/moZFRBY95T53zA](https://rave.dj/moZFRBY95T53zA)

Very pleased with the result.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> Holy crap, Dolly Parton vs Richie Hawtin. It's much much better than expected but not quite ready for the dancefloor yet.

[https://rave.dj/wpsuhBh9kc5OZA](https://rave.dj/wpsuhBh9kc5OZA)

</comment><comment> maze-le Love it!

What I find very interesting is, the stability of the system. There must be quite the heavy load on the machine: retrieval, analysis, tempo matching, mashup creation, encoding and all on a ~11 hours HN-related stress test.

</comment><comment><USER35> Acoustic Blues - Spotify playlist via rave.dj: [https://rave.dj/NX2BLIeTJW_YtQ](https://rave.dj/NX2BLIeTJW_YtQ)

Was better than I expected, this is kind of a stress test

</comment><comment><USER36> My first two attempts didn't turn out that great. However, N.W.A + Beatles works!

[https://rave.dj/lym2TmHHLQhOiQ](https://rave.dj/lym2TmHHLQhOiQ)

</comment><comment><USER37> Pressure Jean [https://rave.dj/23kYqXObZm0izg](https://rave.dj/23kYqXObZm0izg) Billy Jean and Under Pressure... what a lovely site.

</comment><comment><USER38> As expected, French House mixes very well ;-)

Daft Punk + Justice: [https://rave.dj/Lpr1oWauUIIeaA](https://rave.dj/Lpr1oWauUIIeaA)

<comment><USER39> Tu traines sur HN toi ? :)

Gui13

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> This one managed to match up the lyrics of two similarly-themed songs surprisingly well, assumedly by accident: [https://rave.dj/y0GOaTZwBsEvYw](https://rave.dj/y0GOaTZwBsEvYw). "But mighty fine only got you somewhere half the time, the other half either got you... eighteen years, and on the eighteenth birthday he found out it wasn't his!"

</comment><comment><USER41> The two best results I got (both were 'easy' for the AI, but I was still surprised):

Supa Hot Fire + Linkin Park: [https://rave.dj/Kph8bLPfCCmsaw](https://rave.dj/Kph8bLPfCCmsaw)

A known bass drop + Sia - Chandelier: [https://rave.dj/h9rjxodw1vjgkw](https://rave.dj/h9rjxodw1vjgkw)

</comment><comment><USER42> Awesome project! I just made [https://rave.dj/0GU6N96tgPXj9Q](https://rave.dj/0GU6N96tgPXj9Q) and it's awesome! love being able to use a Spotify playlist.

Have you considered using BunnyCDN instead of Stackpath for the CDN? It'll probably be much cheaper.

</comment><comment><USER43> Wow, it actually produced something kind of reasonable for the least reasonable input I could come up with. I present "In the Hall of the Dracula Mountain King" [https://rave.dj/1jK2s4-jAt3meg](https://rave.dj/1jK2s4-jAt3meg)

</comment><comment><USER44> Ironically, this seems to really struggle to make good mixes from techno. It mashes it up a bit too much.

<comment><USER45> You could say that for this one as well, but its still pretty impressive [https://rave.dj/sVAYFGYFUxM2nw](https://rave.dj/sVAYFGYFUxM2nw)

</comment></comment><comment><USER46> Use case recommendation: pick a track with a good background beat and another track that is mostly lyrical to lay over it. ie: [https://rave.dj/XDTIdjbTSIWHxw](https://rave.dj/XDTIdjbTSIWHxw) (gets great at 30 seconds)

</comment><comment><USER47> I played with it and used some generic party songs. The result is not bad. This one for example, "Hey ya! on steroids"

[https://rave.dj/iIeQ-Bx8mnFDWQ](https://rave.dj/iIeQ-Bx8mnFDWQ)

</comment><comment><USER40> 周杰伦 meets 3 Inches of Blood: what the world really needs is more bilingual songs about slaying the orcs! [https://rave.dj/aO7XPBNgFR7W_g](https://rave.dj/aO7XPBNgFR7W_g)

</comment><comment><USER22> Check out mixes of many songs, they include many more advanced techniques than seen in mashups: [https://www.rave.dj/iOfKQXFw3TxTWA](https://www.rave.dj/iOfKQXFw3TxTWA)

</comment><comment><USER48> Seems like you can put rap with anything and it'll sound good!

Here's the Killers with Eminem: [https://rave.dj/3OYTG3uFFUrMIg](https://rave.dj/3OYTG3uFFUrMIg)

</comment><comment><USER49> Cat music mashup. Guaranteed to make your cat look at you as if you're an idiot. [https://rave.dj/PKqlwGPNObCcaw](https://rave.dj/PKqlwGPNObCcaw)

</comment><comment><USER50> Turn Down for What seems to go well with a lot of songs: [https://rave.dj/cBQ8koXg_09blA](https://rave.dj/cBQ8koXg_09blA)

<comment><USER51> Because it's one of the rare electronic songs that became popular whose speed is ~100 BPM (BPM = beats per minute in this case). That makes it compatible with a lot of pop and hip hop songs. Add to that the fact that it contains almost no lyrics (while pop songs contain almost no low frequencies) and you have a match.

</comment></comment><comment><USER52> that was actually heaps better than I expected.. [https://rave.dj/q9LAsKpPBKVPhw](https://rave.dj/q9LAsKpPBKVPhw)

</comment><comment><USER53> Blondie (Rapture) and The Beastie Boys (Fight for your Right)

[https://rave.dj/E_SszLqaCgUrgg](https://rave.dj/E_SszLqaCgUrgg)

</comment><comment><USER54> Love the UI and UX and the idea, but unfortunately the end result was impossible to listen to. Might've been just me picking 2 incompatible songs.

</comment><comment><USER55> Little L x Boogie Nights [https://rave.dj/G1X1uN36e977Hw](https://rave.dj/G1X1uN36e977Hw)

</comment><comment><USER56> Useless. All the prog house tracks I would actually want to mix with a tool like this are around 9 minutes, which is "too long".

</comment><comment> default-kramer Does the "Mix many songs into a DJ set" option even work? It seems to create a mashup instead.

<comment><USER57> Try adding more than two songs, ideally 50 or more to give the AI something to work with. I'd recommend picking a YouTube playlist.

</comment></comment><comment><USER58> Doesn't work for me - I get short glitchy bursts of noise and then it stops.

Chrome 68.0.3440.106 on an iMac Pro.

<comment><USER59> Can you hop onto the discord server so we can help you.

</comment></comment><comment><USER60> Any blog posts on how this is working?

Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson & The Wurzels...

Scream Harvester: [https://rave.dj/talVuJvYAn6zbA](https://rave.dj/talVuJvYAn6zbA)

<comment><USER8> Seems to just be a beat matcher / BPM adjuster, which is interesting in itself, but quite basic features in any DAW/DJing software.

</comment></comment><comment><USER61> What's with the high CPU usage?</comment>


Corruption in India - <AUTHOR> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/19/corruption-india-anna-hazare/print

<comment><USER2> Idea of BRICS being the next up brings me shivers and keeps me awake at night. Now that they're in town, they're bound to affect rest of us.</comment>


Watch New Yorkers Hurry Across Union Square in Real-Time - <AUTHOR> http://www.citylab.com/commute/2016/02/union-square-realtime-map-placemeter/462006/ <comment><USER2> The video in the linked article [0] is scary as hell. It reminds me of the _Person of Interest_ TV series [1].

0: [http://www.citylab.com/tech/2014/08/the-view-from-your- windo...](http://www.citylab.com/tech/2014/08/the-view-from-your-window-is- worth-cash-to-this-company/375471/)

1: (intro) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U9FuRnyiqk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U9FuRnyiqk)

<comment><USER3> Person of Interest became one of my favorite television shows during the first episode of season two when it suddenly is no longer a CSI-like crime show, but hard science fiction.

<comment><USER4> Person of Interest is, to my knowledge, the only show to have _successfully and naturally_ transitioned between two radically different genres (Monster of the week style crime procedural into overarching plot based sci-fi).

It is _beautiful_. And it's such a good show, too. Highly recommended, most of the HN audience would enjoy it - very technical, pre-snowden, talks about mass surveillance (ethics, implications, ...) and AI. Original and sci-fi oriented while remaining grounded in reality (Mr Robot tech quality, no CSI bullshit).

PS: If you do watch it, give it a few episodes to grow on you while it transitions genres over the first season.

<comment><USER5> > to my knowledge, the only show to have _successfully and naturally_ > transitioned between two radically different genres

I wonder if it compares..... I have in mind an anime series from 2011 titled _Puella Magi Madoka Magica_ which transitioned naturally from happy-go-lucky slice-of-life Magical Girls and into dark psychological Cosmic Horror (winning the best critical acclaim since _Spirited Away_ in the process). And one of the series it has since inspired, _Yuki Yuna Is A Hero_ (2014), doubles down on the happy-go-lucky slice of life before transitioning into an anti-war drama.

(But I will check out _Person of Interest_ anyway :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Well that's creepy ... that intersection is on my commute, and I biked through it a little over two hours ago.

The bike numbers are low today because it's raining, and yes, I did get quite wet on my commute in.

</comment><comment><USER7> I see an OSM map and that makes me happy... however then I attempt to zoom scroll (in or out) and, instead, it pans up and down (!?!?!?). First instinct is "this non-sensical UX has to be an ESRI map". Of course, I was right.

</comment><comment><USER8> I'm tempted to start running circles around the intersection just to mess with everyone watching.

</comment><comment><USER9> You can also watch the traffic cameras as provided by NYC Department of Transportation. Many cool projects have been made with the feeds available here: [http://dotsignals.org/multiview2.php](http://dotsignals.org/multiview2.php).

Here is the direct link to the one at Union Square: [http://22.214.171.124/cctv474.jpg](http://188.8.131.52/cctv474.jpg).

</comment><comment><USER10> An awesome documentary[0] related to how people move and use public spaces. "The Social Life of Small Urban Spaces" William H Whyte. citylab actually linked this a while ago [1], but the version embedded in that page has since been removed.

[0] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjxXTsHgc8g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjxXTsHgc8g)

[1] [http://www.citylab.com/design/2011/10/social-life-public- spa...](http://www.citylab.com/design/2011/10/social-life-public-space/237/)

</comment><comment><USER11> Here, watch it in full screen: [http://placemeter-arcgisdemo.s3-website-us- east-1.amazonaws....](http://placemeter-arcgisdemo.s3-website-us- east-1.amazonaws.com)

<comment><USER12> Here, watch it in color video :) [http://wxyzwebcams.com/en/webcam-418.php](http://wxyzwebcams.com/en/webcam-418.php)

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> It's raining today, I imagine people are walking faster, not standing around as much, and jaywalking in a lot more risky situations.

</comment><comment><USER14> This is pretty neat! Dubious conclusion on this particular piece of data though:

"The Chipotle there, for example, has seen around 64 percent less foot traffic today than that three-week average—possibly because of the news about its food-safety concerns."

So really nothing to support that conclusion other than a guess and a link to an article from eight days ago?

<comment><USER15> Or possibly because it's been pouring rain in NYC all day.

Data is data, conjecture is conjecture.

<comment><USER16> The Geox store next to Chipotle is up 42%.

<comment><USER15> ...a manufacturer of waterproof clothing.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I've been wanting to build a service like this to watch foot traffic around retail businesses and restaurants. Then provide the data for investors. Kind of like that company that uses satellite imagery to watch parking lots to measure patronage.

<comment><USER18> There's a startup in NYC that does this called Placemeter. Buy a camera, point it out the window, collect data

<comment><USER19> There's a link. The article says:

> Thomas Richard and Godfrey Yeung, the former Placemeter interns who created > the map

<comment><USER20> The whole thing the article is about is Placemeter as far as I can tell. Your quote made it seem like they were formerly Placemeter interns who later created the map.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> You may not see much traffic currently because there is a very heavy rainstorm in NYC.</comment>


Mozilla grudgingly adopts H.264 - <AUTHOR> http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2161879/mozilla-grudgingly-adopts-h264 <comment><USER2> _Baker said that the firm resisted the move because it wants to build products that people 'love', and added that using standards that are encumbered by patents does not support this._

This seems to be a perfect representation of what's wrong with Mozilla's stance regarding the whole video codec thing (and perhaps, in general). They conflate "what we think is good for the industry" (i.e. patent-free video dominating) with "what users love", and don't seem to realize that "what users love" is _software that works_. If someone using Firefox gets a substandard video experience to someone using any other browser (e.g. flash player instead of native video), _that's not something they love_. They don't know why this happens, all they know is Firefox gives them crappy video and Chrome gives them nice video.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that being against patent-encumbered video is a bad thing. I'm just saying their rationalization for this is bad.

<comment><USER3> I think you're missing the obvious, frequently mentioned point, that users don't 'love' paying money for a free web browser. Patent encumbered video isn't free.

<comment><USER4> Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I'm pretty positive as long as Firefox is free to users Mozilla won't have to pay for the H.264 license. So in that sense, it _is_ free...

<comment><USER5> The point is moot. They'll never have to pay money at all since they're only supporting this by interfacing with platform codecs. If they were shipping an H.264 decoder themselves it would be a different matter entirely.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Wow ... I really wonder whether this is going to backfire in a couple of years when H.264 becomes ubiquitous and patent holders start charging

<comment><USER7> MPEG LA's AVC License Will Not Charge Royalties for Internet Video that is Free to End Users through Life of License [http://www.mpegla.com/Lists/MPEG%20LA%20News%20List/Attachme...](http://www.mpegla.com/Lists/MPEG%20LA%20News%20List/Attachments/231/n-10-08-26.pdf) [pdf]

<comment><USER8> They'll probably charge for h.265. This is why at least I want WebM to remain as an alternative and continue to be supported by browsers. It would at least keep MPEG-LA from ever charging for their codecs.

<comment><USER7> Well, since h.264 is in the good enough and has been built into a lot of hardware, I don't think we have much to worry about.</comment></comment></comment></comment>