The Raspberry Pi's Hardware Random Number Generator - <AUTHOR> http://scruss.com/blog/2013/06/07/well-that-was-unexpected-the-raspberry-pis-hardware-random-number-generator/ <comment><USER2> It may well be that small hardware could be better for generating keys, as it is much easier to audit the total system, and I'd trust it more than an Intel processor with known remote patching capabilities.

If you're security-sensitive then it could be good having a small, dedicated system like the Pi, and make sure that your private key never leaves it.

<comment><USER3> If you don't trust a chip vendor's remote patching, there's nothing you can trust on the chip cryptographically at all.

<comment><USER4> Wait a second, wouldn't this statement imply that things like cert-pinning and PFS are completely useless?

Does skepticism of remote patching while trust of the original chip not protect you against being specially targeted if you assume that the chips aren't being wholesale manufactured with back doors built in?

<comment><USER3> Yes, if you think the NSA has backdoored all mainstream Intel chips, then certificate pinning and forward secrecy are not particularly meaningful.

<comment><USER4> (I mentioned PFS and CP because I perceive them as paradigmatically analogous to the threat model I described - suppose that not ALL of DDG's queries are MITM'd, and yours weren't when you first connected, but you're afraid of the NSA MITMing the queries coming from your connection starting at some date after you made your initial connection to DDG's server, when they start targeting _you_. If you trust the initial connection, then CP prevents that. Or, again, post facto to you starting to use DDG, the NSA could obtain DDG's SSL private key and decrypt your queries, but if you use PFS, then this is mitigated.

So in each case, it seems, whatever trust you have in the initial transaction -- be it a SSL cert presentation, the particular SSL sessions based on it, or just the purchase of your hardware -- being malice-free, then in each case the pinning/PFS/lack of remote patching abilities guarantees the extension of this trust indefinitely, and prevents the other party from going back after the fact and screwing you, it locks the trust in, so to speak.)

(I realized after typing this that I actually have no idea what specifically remote chipset patching refers to or how it's performed, but I assume that it's what it sounds like.) :-/

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> The article is a bit vague about what exactly they're trying to say. _What_ was unexpected? I read it three times before I decided they're comparing a lousy homegrown software RNG to the Pi's hardware RNG, which turns out to be good. Yes? Why would that be unexpected?

<comment><USER6> The way I read it was that it is surprising that it is there at all.

Apparently a lot of android devices don't have one, and don't have time to collect pseudo random data for their software rng to make secure certificates when you boot it for the first time, which posses a security risk for android devices.

That's how I read the article in relation to recent news.

<comment><USER7> Actually most ARM processors do have a hardware RNG, just that few companies write a driver for them

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Does anyone have a link for a spec for the RNG? Specifically, where does it get its entropy from? Couldn't find it in the source link. Only mention I could find is a vague mention of "thermal noise" which could mean anything.

<comment><AUTHOR> I found the link on Reddit. They're asking similar questions.

So far Reddit hasn't got any answers; someone posted a link to a mailing list. Here's a similar link. ([https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/3/24/144](https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/3/24/144))

> _This adds a driver for random number generator present on Broadcom BCM2835 > SoC, used in Raspberry Pi and Roku 2 devices._

Here's a github for the blob source ([https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/blob/rpi-3.6.y/drivers/...](https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/blob/rpi-3.6.y/drivers/char/hw_random/bcm2708-rng.c))

It's a frustrating lack of information. :-/

(I posted here partly because of the Intel RdRand stuff the other day, but also RPis are fun and this could be a fun experiment.)

<comment><USER9> Some of these comments are particularly worrying:

        /* double speed, less random mode */
        #define RNG_RBG2X               0x2
        /* the initial numbers generated are "less random" so will be discarded */
        #define RNG_WARMUP_COUNT      0x40000

A black box random number generator with some numbers being vaguely "less random"? That seems like an exceedingly poor idea.

<comment><USER10> I'm not sure that's worrying. Remember, this is hardware. Hardware takes time to turn on and get into a steady state. Many hardware random number generators are based on thermal noise. But in order to get in the correct range for the values to flip, you need to wait for the circuit to warm up to operating temperature.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> A good number of Intel processors have hardware rngs.

[http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-digital- rando...](http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-digital-random- number-generator-drng-software-implementation-guide)

Of course they're not on $35 boards, but the server machines you are using may already have this.

<comment><USER12> Intel's RDRAND is mentioned in the article as well, near the end. I suspect this article is doing so well because of the recent realization of Intel's involvement with the NSA, and the high potential for backdoors to be included in such a technology.

<comment><USER13> Broadcom is a similarly huge USA company in ARM computers & networking, are we sure they haven't been involved with the NSA either?

<comment><USER2> We can't be sure, but it should be much easier to audit a small system like Pi, rather than an Intel processor that, above all, can be remotely patched.

<comment><USER14> Intel processor can be remotely patched?! Then why did Intel spend $475m to fix the FDIV bug?

<comment><USER15> I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the FDIV bug - or heck, even the much more recent (1997!) F00F bug - might not be so contemporary or represent the state of the art of Intel processors.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Do hw rng's get a test suite certificate(NIST's?), like a Swiss watch, or like a optical sextant's `Certificate of Errors'? Tables of mean, standard deviation, etc, for expected physical dependent parameters(what: speed? temp? ...)?

<comment><USER17> Here are the NIST recommendations referenced in the FIPS 140-2 approved RNG appendix:

[http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/nistpubs/800-90A/SP800-90A...](http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/nistpubs/800-90A/SP800-90A.pdf)

<comment><USER16> Thank you. For the last few days, I've been looking for the The NIST Statistical Test Suite, not in C#, have you a link?

<comment><USER17> Sorry, I just found the above from a quick google search for "FIPS 140-2 rng" which I noticed referenced in the rngtester output in the article.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Is there a way to seed /dev/urandom and /dev/random from it?

<comment><USER19> Rng-tools [1], mentioned in the article, can use a hardware rng's output as input to the kernel's prng. However, it needs to be configured correctly to avoid potential problems [2].

[1] [http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/user/tlecarrour/rng- tools.h...](http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/user/tlecarrour/rng-tools.html)

[2] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6040975](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6040975)

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> For those looking for something a little less than formal perfection (whatever that really is), FM receivers can be a useful source of rands.

Discussion: [http://www.ciphersbyritter.com/NEWS5/FMRNG.HTM](http://www.ciphersbyritter.com/NEWS5/FMRNG.HTM)

</comment><comment><USER21> What barriers keep thermal random number generators from being widely available? Or are they actually?

<comment><AUTHOR> Sometimes they're not very good. Sometimes they're just very expensive.

There are a range of different hardware devices available on various plugin boards. And processors have started to include them as well.

Here's a very old (1997?) examination of 3 hardware devices: ([http://www.robertnz.net/true_rng.html](http://www.robertnz.net/true_rng.html)) and he has some nice information here too: ([http://www.robertnz.net/hwrng.htm](http://www.robertnz.net/hwrng.htm))

Here's my list of recent reading, not all of it relevant.

([http://csrc.nist.gov/groups/ST/toolkit/rng/documents/nissc-p...](http://csrc.nist.gov/groups/ST/toolkit/rng/documents/nissc- paper.pdf))

([http://www.paulm.org/random.html](http://www.paulm.org/random.html))

([http://www.cryptography.com/public/pdf/IntelRNG.pdf](http://www.cryptography.com/public/pdf/IntelRNG.pdf))

Build one yourself: ([http://www.labbookpages.co.uk/electronics/hwRNG.html](http://www.labbookpages.co.uk/electronics/hwRNG.html))

Here's a list of devices:

([http://www.westphal-electronic.com/](http://www.westphal-electronic.com/))

([http://www.trng98.se/shop/index.php](http://www.trng98.se/shop/index.php))

([http://www.comscire.com/](http://www.comscire.com/))

([http://www.idquantique.com/random-number- generators/products...](http://www.idquantique.com/random-number- generators/products...))

([http://www.letech.jpn.com/](http://www.letech.jpn.com/))

And someone upthread posted a link to EntropyKey.

<comment><USER21> Thanks, very helpful.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Perhaps this is a new application for the pi? A dedicated entropy appliance could be useful

<comment><USER23> Heh, there was a company that offered just such a beast, basically a network socket and an API to fetch a random number. I thought it was a really subtle joke (like that time I carried around a Diet Coke as my Halloween costume) but once people connected the dots between "Ok, you care so much about a cryptographically secure random number generator you buy an appliance that does nothing else, and then you talk to it over the network..."

As I was building IR beacons for mobile robots at the time, it led me to suggest an IR LED that was connected to a thermal emission source, then you could pick up random numbers by sampling the IR spectrum for a some period of time in your area. At least that way you don't know _when_ the randomness was sampled (well not exactly), and your sniffer has to capture all radiated IR in all directions to ensure it has a complete history if it wants to back correlate it. Harder but still not as simple as just putting it in your machine. (which if you care enough you will do)

<comment><USER24> Similar in spirit to SGI's Lavarand [1]

[1] [http://web.archive.org/web/19971210213248/http://lavarand.sg...](http://web.archive.org/web/19971210213248/http://lavarand.sgi.com/)

<comment><USER25> Awesome. Thank you for sharing that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> What I found unexpected about the Raspberry Pi, was that the CPU chip is closed - very little data available on what's in it. Suddenly 'discovered' hardware RNG being a case in point.

<comment><USER27> That's why I use the BeagleBoard.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> Here is my proposed RNG for network devices that don't generate much entropy of their own:

      strace -Tiv -ttt nice curl -Lv --raw $URL 2>&1 | shasum | dd bs=1 count=2 2>/dev/null

Possible values of $URL might be [https://news.google.com](https://news.google.com), [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random), or the Twitter Firehose. :)

<comment><USER6> If you are connected to the internet, why not get your randomness from [http://www.random.org/](http://www.random.org/) ?

<comment><USER29> This thread is a joke, right?

<comment><USER30> What's a joke?

There is nothing ridiculous about using network timing as random, that's how /dev/random already works.

There is nothing ridiculous about using random.org, though that should be https.

<comment><USER31> > There is nothing ridiculous about using random.org, though that should be > https.

Everything is wrong about this.

• You can not trust SSL to protect your source of entropy.

• You can not trust an external, unverified source of entropy.

<comment><USER30> Pretend for a moment that you have isolated hardware with no trusted random sources. And this hardware already depends on large secret binary blobs to run at all. At this point trust is already hard, and random.org is a hell of a lot better than nothing. If you mix network jitter with external randomness sources that's just about the best possible job you can do. Neither half is perfect but they help.

<comment><USER31> Every linux distro has /dev/random as a good, cryptographically secure source of randomness that is refilled by as many sources as possible. It can and has been audited by many developers to ensure this. The main issue you will have is having multiple identical instances of a linux VM built from a single source, or something like that.

Alternatively, you suggest a sole remote source over a public internet connection. Assuming an eavesdropper, the source could be compromised or the strength of the resulting cipher be reduced. Assuming a malicious entity with network control, you're pretty much screwed.

If you don't trust your hardware, you can't be working with encryption.

<comment><USER30> Software can only do so much without good hardware sources. A small embedded box, barred from networking, has roughly zero entropy available. But if you combine microsecond network timings, only vulnerable to local attack, with third party random data that is safe from mitm, you get resonably good random numbers. Don't use it to generate a root certificate, but it'll work for general purposes.

<comment><USER29> > Don't use it to generate a root certificate, but it'll work for general > purposes.

"General purposes" is exceedingly hard to quantify.

<comment><USER30> How about this: it's much easier for an attacker to physically compromise the device than it is for them to attack your network AND attack random.org.

Is that not good enough? It's about as secure as your average desktop. You can't make a device more secure than the access to it, and there is no such thing as perfect security.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> So OK, the Pi has a thermal RNG. Next question - does this: [http://www.damninteresting.com/random-event-generators- predi...](http://www.damninteresting.com/random-event-generators-predict-the- future/) (and google for related articles) supposedly only happen for some types of hardware RNGs? Nuclear decay based RNGs? Or all types - thermal, semiconductor shot noise, wind-chimes or whatever?

Sounds like a candidate for large scale experiment.</comment>


How to Make Money from Writing - <AUTHOR> https://firstname.lastname@example.com/how-to-make-money-from-writing-d220b83d828f <comment><USER2> Why do so many self-absorbed "writers" on Medium avoid even _basic_ proofreading?</comment>


As wildfires hit Australia, ocean warming from climate change endangers Tasmania - <AUTHOR> https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/world/climate-environment/climate-change-tasmania/ <comment><USER2> I know this article is mostly touching on the kelp forests and the Tasman sea warming, but the current fires in Australia are unprecedented and seriously frightening. We're at the point where it's uncertain that the usually accepted belief that fires like this are carbon neutral will hold. Areas that haven't burnt in living memory have been destroyed, and areas that would usually regrow have been decimated to the point that experts are worried that they may not recover.

This is something new for Australia, and Australia has one of the longest records of living memory when it comes to fires.

<comment><USER3> It's not important to Australia that it be habitable, or that its seas survive. It's only important that its coal extraction industry is not impaired. This, after all, is what Australians have voted for; who are we to defy democracy?

[https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/international/2019/11/...](https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/international/2019/11/01/547243.htm)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Since this is a global problem, I woukd be happy if the government in my country could make it simpler to reduce my carbon footprint. Now all I get is frustraded by reading news like this.

<comment><USER5> Would be interesting to see if in due time when the death toll rises we get to see proceedings in the international court in The Hague.

<comment><USER6> If the court isn't submerged by then...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> If you find it helpful, here's an Outline of the article: [https://outline.com/uAUtV9](https://outline.com/uAUtV9)

<comment><USER8> Not seen this service before. Does it work with all paywall sites?

<comment><USER7> It works on quite a few sites e.g. Financial Times, Bloomberg, Washington Post. But not on Wall Street Journal.</comment></comment></comment>


France loots former colonies - <AUTHOR> http://thisisafrica.me/france-loots-former-colonies/ <comment><USER2> Discussed before at: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8876429](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8876429)

</comment><comment><USER3> Googling 'pacte colonial' and other terms does not get me far outside the blogosphere. No wiki, hardly anything on Google Scholar. The World Bank never seems to have written an opinion about it. Hard to believe, at least in this form.

As a counter example, I Googled for Chinese investments in those countries, and found a lot of information / news. That seems to run against the 'Ownership of natural resources'-paragraph.

A last thought: it's about monetary operations for the workings of a common currency. You don't exactly lose money when depositing it at a central bank. The system they describe in pretty harsh terms (google it) , sounds like a scheme pretty normally practiced between banks and central banks.

<comment><USER4> I had better luck googling "colonial pact". I think the worry is African's money deposited into French reserve bank is used to invest in African infrastructure, and part of the profits kept by the French (and the shareholders of the named company) themselves and the other part remain forever unavailable to the member countries themsevles.

<comment><USER3> I tried the other languages as well. All the same authors, same pieces rehashed. Nothing like a source to base your opinion on, imho. I'd even trust Krugman at this point ;) I don't read French easily, but even Google Scholar seems to hold the same coloured content.

On the contents: a central bank scheme indeed. And in normal circumstances your central banks profits fill the coffers of your state. In this case the problem is the profits are not divided among stakeholders, only to the shareholder (the French).

Well the solution is 'simple': start your own currency. My impression is that those countries greatly benefit from a more stable currency (haven't looked it up at Bloomberg), since there is an implicit guarantee from the French state (is there?). We need a more total picture (costs and benefits) in order to be able to form somewhat of an opinion.

<comment><USER5> Here's a Blomberg article in the matter which suggests the rationale of a more stable currency.

[http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2014-04-17/african- mone...](http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2014-04-17/african-monetary- union-stirs-criticism-of-france)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> As a french I really don't understand why French government doesn't do massive long term investment in Africa other than simple explotation of natural ressources. As many study says Africa is the future Asia with >8% growth and huge amount of population [1]. Even if there is a eavy colonial past and really bad things as Rwanda we share a language and some values.

[1]: [http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/05/the...](http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/05/the- next-asia-is-africa-inside-the-continents-rapid-economic-growth/257441/)

<comment><USER7> I would guess instability is the main reason for not investing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Interesting. I wonder if this is related to an event on the same theme... there was a report last year about an Air Algerie McDonell Douglas 83 (MD-83) plane being downed - some reports suggest by bomb despite weather allegations - while flying over Mali. The plane was allegedly carrying France's three highest ranking military intelligence officers for Africa from Burkina Faso to Algeria plus 30 other French military. The crash site was hurriedly secured by the French military with 30 French soldiers flown in for purpose. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Alg%C3%A9rie_Flight_5017#P...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Alg%C3%A9rie_Flight_5017#Passengers_and_crew)

</comment><comment><USER9> Those sidebar articles are definitely NSFW

</comment><comment><USER10> There is a documentary with accusation about previous french presidents arriving home in France with suit cases of dollars.

[http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/12/us-france-graft- id...](http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/12/us-france-graft- idUSTRE78B4DA20110912)

</comment><comment><USER11> This was a good read. I had no idea any of this was going on. Though I still don't understand why the ex French colonies just don't say no. It's not like France would send in the army. I'm guessing France would confiscate 85% of their reserves and that is enough of a deterrent?

<comment><USER12> France has a lot of troops in africa, protecting civilians whenever a civil war erupts ( like in operation licorne in cote d'ivoire) , or more recently in mali, to fight against djihadist groups spreading chaos.

This article reads like propaganda to me. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that france still has unjustified commercial priviledges,espeically in the oil business, but the monetary things reads like a complete misunderstanding of central bank monetary stability policies ( franc cfa is exceptionnaly stable compared to the poor politicial stability of the area).

<comment><USER13> Unlike the U.S., I don't think French foreign military involvement is all that well known or understood.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> (disclaimer: French here) Well, France will not wage war if these countries leave the CFA. France gains some control, and these countries enjoy the benefits of a stable currency. It is probably not the most ideal situation, but what alternatives are proposed?

<comment><USER15> Except that all who opposed were mysteriously assassinated? I'm not one to quickly jump on conspiracy theories, but it sure looks like France is not in a healthy relationship with these countries.

Slightly related, is it true that the currencies in CFA are significantly more stable than those of surrounding countries? And are the inhabitants wealthier for it?

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> thanks for reminding that colonialism has not ended</comment>


Uber Is Serving New York's Outer Boroughs More Than Taxis Are - <AUTHOR> http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/uber-is-serving-new-yorks-outer-boroughs-more-than-taxis-are/

<comment><USER4> This is good to know, but not very surprising. NY Taxis are known to refuse rides to outer boroughs. A decade ago, one had to jump into the cab, tell him that the destination is some fancy neighborhood, and then once he flags the meter you tell him the real destination (Queens - gasp; Bronx - <USER2> cursing). And often when the driver threatens to drop you off midway, you call the authorities while in the cab.

For readers who think this is traumatic, it was, especially in winter nights and your destination is not served by Subway.

In fact, some friends of mine that are Black had to dress extra nicely for an otherwise casual dinner on Friday nights, just so that the cabbies would think (wrongly) that the fare would be for some nice neighborhood. And one had to make sure, he stands on avenues that are not pointing towards Harlem. It was a done thing for a white buddy to hail the cab, and the black friend gets in (There is a certain choreography that goes into this - the black person had to stand close but not-too-close and in a location where he can apparate after the cab has come to a halt but not in a way that gives him a chance to rev up and scoot).

Here is a recent article from Huffpo and Washpo that talks about this in detail:

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/07/23/...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/07/23/as- a-black-man-its-hard-to-catch-a-cab-research-shows-even-white-people-know- that/)

[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-larosa/nyc-cab-drivers- bl...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-larosa/nyc-cab-drivers- blacks_b_6116602.html?ir=India&adsSiteOverride=in)

<comment><USER5> Out of curiosity can one not order a regular cab by phone to come and pick you up at a destination and the dispatcher already knows the destination?

Where I live that's pretty normal and only costs a tiny bit more.

<comment><USER6> Cabs are hail only. Car services in NYC are either pretty shady or expensive.

The cheap reliable ones used to be focused on specific ethnic groups. Now they have green cabs that work the boroughs and take calls as well.

<comment><USER7> There are car services that are generally reliable. The problem is, this is on a neighborhood-by-neighborhood basis. I know who to call to get me to the airport from my apartment, but if I'm in an unfamiliar part of town and I don't know someone who lives there, all bets are off.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I was in NYC a couple weeks ago. Uber driver told me his brother drives a cab.

I asked if the cabbies were mad at Uber. He said Uber is good for them because it reduced competition among cabbies for cabs. Apparently, before, you'd go pick up your cab for the day and they'd tell you there were none left. And if you did get a cab, the dispatchers would demand money in exchange for sending you good fares.

Seems like Uber is good for cabbies, but not necessarily the medallion holders.

The TV was also full of anti De Blasio ads from Uber.

<comment><USER9> I live in Virginia and have been getting those anti De Blasio ads... I'm not sure why.

<comment><USER8> I'd guess because there's a lot of commuting between NYC and the DC area.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Earnings for Uber Driver = (timeDriving - timeLookingForFares) * payRate

Earnings for Cab Driver = (timeDriving - timeLookingForFares) * payRate

As a taxi driver, timeLookingForFares is heavily dependent on the amount of people hailing cabs per block driven. As an Uber driver, since you are routed to fares automatically the timeLookingForFares variable is dependent on both how far away other cabs are and the density of riders.

Clearly cabs should clump in higher density areas.

<comment><USER11> Serious question: are there no taxi apps in the US? You would think cabs would also be routed to the next customer automatically?

<comment><USER12> I'm not sure what stops EasyTaxi from working in the U.S. I use it in South/Central America and it routes regular taxis, you pay in cash like usual but get the convenience of the Uber experience of knowing a cab is on the way, and who the driver is.

[http://www.easytaxi.com/cities/](http://www.easytaxi.com/cities/)

<comment><USER13> At a guess, it's because it's a Rocket Internet company and the group generally does not like operating in the US for a variety of reasons (chief amongst which is that their business model is to execute ideas in emerging markets, not developed countries).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I took a look at the monthly revenues of Yellow Taxis and the # of total fares with the NYC TLC data set that was released last week.

       SELECT LEFT(DATE(pickup_datetime),7) as month,
       SUM(fare_amount) as total_revenue,
       COUNT(*) as num_fares
       FROM [nyc-tlc:yellow.trips_2014], [nyc-tlc:yellow.trips_2015]
       GROUP BY month ORDER BY month

Here's the quick-and-dirty output: [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NVcScdHtcWvF9oSZGE3_...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NVcScdHtcWvF9oSZGE3_9Nr- XHAuL5sAldtrV-PNh2A/edit?usp=sharing)

If Uber is eating the TLC's lunch, why isn't there a dramatic shift in revenue loss? (trendline has only a slight decline) However, it does appear the # fares are on a downward trend.

<comment><USER15> It's important to note that Uber also created a brand new market. Many of my friends, and myself included, would've never considered using taxis "back in the day" when doing errands or day-to-day activities. Alternatives would've been to just drive ourselves or take public transportation. Uber and Lyft have made it frictionless and convenient enough for everyday use.

What I'm trying to say is that Uber isn't only cannabilizing the market share of taxis. Yes, they are definitely taking some of that, but more importantly they are differentiating themselves enough to cater to a whole new crowd that wouldn't have ever used taxis in the first place.

<comment><USER16> The existence of Uber literally changes my business travel planning. Previously I'd always pick a hotel within walking distance of the primary purpose of the trip (company office/conference/etc). Since Uber exists, I get to pick any hotel in the city. I literally ran up more in Uber bills in 2 weeks than I've spent on American cabs in 33 years and couldn't be happier with it.

(Anecdata: I actively avoid American cabs because I seem to have a sign printed on my forehead "Please try scamming this kid. He will not escalate and call the cops." Including, relevantly to this article, twice getting into a cab in Manhattan and told that the cab did not service Brooklyn.)

<comment><USER17> Not all cabs in the US are that terrible, but a lot of them are. To add to the fun, taxicab regulation/licensing is done by the municipalities, which is okay for somewhere like NYC, but in the Valley, Sunnyvale cabs are different from Mountain View cabs or San Jose cabs or Palo Alto cabs. In Boston, Boston cabs are different from Cambridge cabs or Somerville cabs or Brookline cabs or Watertown cabs, and they're all not allowed to pick people up on the street in "foreign" territory. Having one single company to deal with no matter where you are in the metro area or the country or indeed the world makes things so much easier.

<comment><USER18> Last time I was in the Bay area, I took cabs. Oh what horrible experiences!! I finally took the plunge and used Uber. I was very satisfied until I encountered "surge pricing" when going to the airport at 5am. I'm still a fan but am a bit mixed about relying on it.

For long distance trips from the airport (hour long), I still think Uber is pricey. On my last trip from an airport, a black car would have costed 120-150, with a driver in a suit or an Uber (90ish). Since surge pricing is not predictable (by me), I would go for the black car option since it is certain.

The whole discussion makes me realize there are multiple markets for cabs. Uber definitely rocks the "hail a random cab for an impromptu ride" market. The "planned trip to the airport, etc." is a different market that has yet to be cracked.

<comment><USER17> Because of stupid protectionist laws as I mentioned above, your (I presume) 40 mile trip to the airport is actually an 80 mile trip for the driver. Because the airport belongs to the City and County of San Francisco, only San Francisco taxis (and now Uber as well) are allowed to pick passengers at SFO, so the driver has to drive back to his home town with no passengers. As for surge pricing... well, presumably the conventional-taxi alternative is no cabs available at all, but its unpredictability does sound annoying.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Uber is serving Oakland CA waaaaaaay more than taxis ever would.

<comment><USER20> And South Peninsula - Getting a Cab in Redwood City, or Cupertino used to be a minimum 30 minute way (Which I never understood - how can it _always_ be 30 minutes, why would there never be a cab 10 minutes away) - and, late at night, Cabs would sometimes just not show up at all.

Uber is typically a 5-10 minute call away during the daytime in Redwood City/Cupertino, and later at night, around 9:00 PM, you can get an Uber in < 20 minutes, which is awesome compared to the way it used to be.

<comment><USER21> By coincidence, I just did a hackathon in Redwood City this weekend, and on Friday ~11pm I was able to get one at an office park that arrived just after I made it outside from the 2nd floor.

Whatever forces stopped this kind of thing from working before were destroying a lot of value. I know there's always the talk of what cost Uber most be socializing with this service, but even at a 50% fare increase that would have been an extreme improvement over the previous options, so you can't really explain it away as pure cost hiding.

<comment><USER22> Do you remember if you paid surge pricing? i would guess thats probably the reason. i'm from NYC but am currently in SF. both cities have surge pricing late at night, or when its raining in NYC. taxi regulations artificially depress prices but Uber may have created a fair (?) way of pricing things properly. hence service becomes faster. i'm sure surge pricing creates incentives for more uber drivers to drive at night over time, hopefully it will even out.

<comment><USER20> Some people don't like the surge - I love it. It means that 100% of the time when I take out my mobile phone, and open up the Uber App, I'm going to get an Uber in a major metropolitan area. I then get to decide _for myself_ whether I'm willing to pay that surge price.

With Taxi's, the decision is taken out of my hands. There are just no taxi's available during rush periods, and I'm left stranded.

<comment><USER23> "Taxis." In English, we use a plain S for plural nouns.

<comment><USER20> Apologies. Normally I catch stuff like that when I read it (but quite often not when I type it) - and it's _incredibly_ frustrating to see. I have an increasing tendency to confuse where/were, there/their, its/it's when I type, and I have to insert a 60 second delay before hitting submit and confirming I haven't blown it. Particularly annoying is the use of _' s_ when it's not needed. Thanks for pointing it out.

<comment><USER23> No worries. Thanks for fixing it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> I am not surprised. Last time I was in New York, I wasn't in downtown and it was so hard for me to get a taxi. There are so many taxis in NYC but most of them stay in the same area. As soon as you are not in a populated area, it's close to impossible to grab a taxi. I am pleased that Uber is making things move.

<comment><USER25> Isn't Uber really replacing calling a car service or taxi then?

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> The title of this article is a little misleading. In absolute terms, medallion cabs are still about 10x more active in outer boroughs than Uber. (~1M rides for Uber vs ~12M rides for green/yellow cabs).

It seems like it would be more appropriate to compare these figures to other livery cab companies since that is essentially what Uber is. I don't think it's very surprising that Manhattan has a higher percentage of street hails than the outer boroughs.

</comment><comment><USER27> I was in NYC a few weeks ago and Lyft Line was $5 flat rate anywhere in Manhattan! Beats taking the subway if you ask me.

On a more related note when I was in Bushwick in Brooklyn it was pretty much impossible to even see a cab let alone hail one. I didn't even think twice about calling an Uber to take me back to the city.

<comment><USER28> _I was in NYC a few weeks ago and Lyft Line was $5 flat rate anywhere in Manhattan!_

Here's the problem with that - it's a heavily subsidised, promo rate. None of us should get used to it, because once Uber/Lyft destroys the other they'll stop doing it.

<comment><USER29> That's definitely a limited-time-only offer, but how are Uber or Lyft going to destroy each other? Maybe by erecting some kind of regulatory wall, but otherwise, the barrier to entry seems so low it's hard to imagine one of them winning a monopoly.

<comment><USER28> The barrier to entry is huge - getting people to download your app and getting drivers to drive those users around is not a simple process. That's why numerous apps have already left the market.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Here in Germany you call a cab with your phone when you are away from the city center. Usually the taxi arrives within ten minutes.

<comment><USER31> You can do that in the USA too. Generally, the cab will arrive - but in many cases it is not profitable for the driver to come out of their way to pick you up so sometimes they will not. The problem being that cab drivers are mostly independent contractors, and the cab dispatcher and government regulators don't have much ability to force them to do things that will lose money.

<comment><USER32> > but in many cases it is not profitable for the driver to come out of their > way to pick you up so sometimes they will not

How is the same thing profitable for Uber drivers?

<comment><USER33> Uber drivers don't pay for the rationed "taxi medallion", which elsewhere in this thread is reported at ~$100/day.

<comment><USER34> I believe the OP is talking about a car service, not a medallion taxi cab.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> For a long time Taxi's have had a monopoly on their market. Like any monopoly they under-serve.

Nice that Uber is shaking that up.

</comment><comment><USER36> Meanwhile, in Brazil, Uber Drivers are being kidnapped by taxi drivers and get their cars smashed...

<comment><USER37> Same here in Uruguay for EasyTaxi drivers (an Uber clone).

I was encouraged to apply for at position for Uber in Uruguay, but I'm really not cut out for the work (it involves fighting the extremely strong cab driver's union here, which isn't above kneecapping).

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> Seems like the best use for uber. Honestly, in European capitals I've been in, uber was better in the outskirts than hailing something in the interior. Seems like a logical extension.

In some cities, like Tel Aviv, Get Taxi and Uber use a similar model (all licensed cabs) but coverage and penetration matters.

</comment><comment><USER39> I think it's fairly obvious that the Uber/Lyft model is inherently more effective at serving the outer regions.

I'd be more interested to understand if Manhattan congestion is a legitimate concern.

</comment><comment><USER40> I listen to NPR and it seems there is a lot of anxiety among people about technology and automation and it seems all doom and gloom, it almost makes me feel guilty.

But after I though about for a while I realized its all rubbish and technology is being used as a scapegoat.

Technology has allowed constant deflation in the past 40 years for everything from food to transportation due to enormous efficiency gains.

If it WAS NOT for technological innovation there would have been a revolution by now, since cost of housing, education and healthcare has shot up ( as well explained by Elizabeth warren's research ).

While wages have been dropping in real terms. Essentially technology has allowed people to afford clothes, etc. Without it the average person wouldn't be able to afford anything.

So the reality is things like the Uber revolution is not happening fast enough ! The average cost of taxi rides is ridiculous compared to what it was in the past.

The real controversy is not Uber causing joblessness. If we want to innovate a lot - there is always going to be constant destruction of old methods. Uber will be replaced with driverless cars, who will be replaced by personalized solar driverless cars, etc.

Those jobless people should became part of the supply to bring those changes.

\</comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment>----

Dr. Raghuram Rajan [1] essentially helped me see capitalism and the free market in this new more enlightened light.

Capitalism seems to be getting a lot of bad rep since 2008 - but its not the fault of the free market. This medallion bullshit is what is holding the free market behind and creating a welfare system for taxi drivers and billionaires.

In a real free market billionaires would quickly lose their wealth as new competition would destroy their wealth.

Rather than protect workers - we should try to retrain them for the coming knowledge economy.

[1] Dr. Raghuram Rajan predicted the financial crisis in 2005 while working for the IMF. He has a great book called "Saving Capitalism from the Capitalist".

His argument for reform is really controversial - essentially he states the US economy is overinflated, the military industrial complex, housing, financial services. While the real economy hasn't been able to grow, compared to germany, etc.

He doesn't believe the Keynesian argument about a loss of aggregate demand - there is always demand for things - housing, better healthcare. Its just that the supply side is completely distorted - and this taxi cartel is one example.

The US spent trillions on QE to prop up the housing bubble even more - <USER3> it could have used that money to retrain the workforce to do more productive things - more doctors, more engineers to create robots.

Even though there is no demand for houses at the price that people want to sell. Sure a lot of baby boomers will end up with negative equity but that is capitalism and Free market ! Its your decision to tie up all your wealth on your house rather than invest in your kid's education or pay higher taxes so government could pay if for you and create better healthcare.

The government is the biggest culprit, they tried distorting the market by allowing the buyers to have more credit than they could afford.

Sorry about being so ranty. But I do not want my industry to be scapegoated.

<comment><USER41> >This medallion bullshit is what is holding the free market behind and creating a welfare system for taxi drivers

How exactly is being forced to pay to do your job a "welfare system"?

<comment><USER33> Yeah, it's very definitely a form of rentier capitalism: the creation of an artificially scarce resource on which monopoly rents can be charged.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> did they release this uber data to the public: i dont see it in these tables:

[https://bigquery.cloud.google.com/results/emerald- diagram-43...](https://bigquery.cloud.google.com/results/emerald- diagram-436:job_KoU5_gm-fNouSKEPduQqdBA5aUk)

</comment><comment><USER25> Doesn't it make sense that street hails would be lower in areas with a lower rider density?

</comment><comment><USER32> But not Upper Manhatten. The way the questions are constructed and the way the author headlines where Uber is superior, rather than inferior (or better yet, rather than both), feels like yet more Ubermania, not balanced analysis. It's getting old.

I'm not even quite sure I know mine or the public's interest? Why do I care?

Hmmm ... At least, drivers and passengers should be protected, and I think services should be available to as broad a segment of the community as possible. And decisions for the community should be made democratically, not by whoever spends the most.

<comment><USER43> >And decisions for the community should be made democratically, not by whoever spends the most.

Is "What cab service should I, a random private citizen, use?" a decision for the community to be made democratically?</comment></comment>


Sweet Eclipse - <AUTHOR> http://exyte.github.io/sweet.eclipse/ <comment><USER2> You have ultra thin font weights on your site which is extremely difficult to read even to my, relatively, young eyes, and to add insult to injury, you've disabled sub-pixel antialiasing for these fonts! I don't know if this is a new fad in the designer world to disable sub-pixel antialiasing but I'm seeing it everywhere and it needs to stop. OS X has had, and continues to have, superior font rendering capabilities much more advanced and better tuned than any other system. Regardless of how much "better" you think it looks, disabling sub- pixel antialiasing makes your super thin fonts impossible to read.

As an experiment, on a retina Mac, try disabling it and see how much more legible your already super-thin font weights look.

Having said that, I don't think re-skinning of Eclipse promoted by a site with such poor legibility bodes well for the quality of the work.

</comment><comment><USER3> The problem with Eclipse is not just UI. It is a closed ecosystem that goes against source code and editing and towards visual tools.

Ever tried copying a workspace to a different directory? Or opening a random text file from disk?

<comment><USER4> What do you mean? Eclipse does all of those fine.

I just now did a test.

      - Create text file
      - Drag and drop it on the Eclipse window
      - It opens

It worked, what do you mean?</comment></comment>


Entrepreneurship is Not Business - <AUTHOR> http://takisathanassiou.com/entrepreneurship-is-not-business/

<comment><USER2> Please stop having an exclamation point at the end of every sentence. Just use periods.</comment>


ISO 1 - <AUTHOR> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_1

<comment><USER2> As a home engineer that rebuilds lathes, mills and other highly accurate machines down to the micron level (1/1000th mm) the importance of having everything at the same temperature when rebuilding is of the utmost importance.

All my test kit; block gauges, micrometers, 300kg surface plate, engineers levels, sine bars etc are calibrated at 20'c (the industry standard) .. one of the best ways to see the effect temperature has on accuracy is to warm one side of an engineers level in your hand then place it on a surface and watch the bubble move as the temperature equalizes.

<comment><USER3> I know how to run a lathe and vertical mill, but would love to learn more about any of the topics you mentioned. It sounds more involved than what you'd find in a normal maintenance shop. Any suggestions to learn more about this? I didn't know that people even rebuilt lathes and mills.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I wish ISO 8601 would have been the first one. Then, perhaps, we would not have this: [http://xkcd.com/1179/](http://xkcd.com/1179/)

<comment><USER5> As someone who just wrote a universal international date/time conversion/comparison app for our portal...I FREAKIN concur.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I found ISO 2 to be even more interesting, the second international standard is... yarns? Or rather, the directional twist of yarns? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_2)

<comment><USER7> Ah, you did the same thing I did.

If you make it to ISO_8, you get redirected to this page, which really cuts the browsing time down: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_International_Organiza...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_International_Organization_for_Standardization_standards)

<comment><USER8> It's probably worth pointing out here that there is a navbox, and he could have been using that; you'll notice it doesn't include a link for ISO 8.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_International_Organiza...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_International_Organization_for_Standardization_standards)

</comment><comment><USER10> The thing that confuses me is that the current revision of ISO 1 was published in 2002, as an update of the original 1975 revision.

What on earth needed revising? What part of "20 degrees celsius" didn't they explain properly?

<comment><USER11> If I'm not mistaken, ISO makes most of its money not from member contributions but from selling paper copies of the standards. Speaking cynically, perhaps they needed a way to ensure their clients (libraries, companies, governments) will pay for "updates".

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Pity it wasn't ISO 20.

<comment><USER13> why isnt there a #20 ISO standard ?

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> >all those Wikipedia articles on the frontpage

What is this, cheap-karma-shot-saturday?

<comment><USER15> I have no problem with Wikipedia links, but some of these today are not going to result in any interesting or meaningful discussion.

<comment><USER16> Because they're standards!

I love standards. The more the better. Haha.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Who Is Launching This Month? (November 2010) - <AUTHOR>

A list of web apps launching in November 2010. Please post in the following format:<p>(Web app name) | (URL) <i>(Scheduled launch date)</i><p>(Description)<p>(HN promo code, request for help from HN community, etc.) <comment><USER2> Paperhater | <http://www.paperhater.com> (Early November) | Take a picture of a receipt, biz card or diagram from your smart phone and we will create an accounting entry, contact or visio diagram from it.

Would like to know what accounting system / contact manager / drawing program you use.

</comment><comment><USER3> LabSlice | <http://LabSlice.com>

LabSlice allows you to create demos, evaluations and training environments that are stored in the cloud and can be easily shared. Deploy either thick or thin client applications that your customers can load, tweak and play with in just a matter of minutes.

We offer 1 month of free access, but can extend to 6 months to HN users (just request on contact form on our site to get this enabled).

Help from HN:

1) Our solution uses Amazon EC2 as a backend. This causes problems for those not familiar with EC2 or without their Access Keys being readily available. Should we bite the bullet and use our own Access Keys for 1 month trial environments?

2) The product is very much targeted at the enterprise market. What's the best way to reach such a group without the high costs of direct engagement with a salesperson at the customer's permises?

</comment><comment><USER4> CoderStack | <http://www.coderstack.co.uk> (15 Nov)

Job board concentrating on the top 10% of software developers in the UK.

Currently busy getting companies interested in being listed for when we launch. Happy to give free job postings to companies on HN, just drop me an email.

</comment><comment><USER5> TaskList | <http://gettasklist.com> (11/29/2010)

A task management web app originally built for my own team, now opening it up to the public. Aim is to reduce missed/forgot tasks which is a problem associated with task management via email.

</comment><comment><USER6> Adventure Cow | <http://adventurecow.com> ( _11/1/2010_ )

Just launched today. Read Choose Your Own Adventure-like books over email, or write your own.

(Looking for advice and signups!)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Reservv | <http://www.Reservv.com> _(11/22/2010)_

A self-service web application for companies to manage appointments online. Customers can view a calendar of open appointment dates/times, reserve appointments, cancel appointments, and receive reminders by email/phone. No monthly fee. Pay by usage _(number of emails sent/phone calls made)_.

</comment><comment><USER7> Infused Commerce | <http://www.infusedcommerce.com> (11/1/2010)

A self-service social commerce platform that allows merchants to "Create a Facebook Store and Distribute Your Store in Ads".

HN: We're interested in partnerships related to social media marketing, e-commerce, and advertising.

</comment><comment><USER8> GrexIt

<http://grexit.com>

10/15/2010

GrexIt lets Google Apps users create a knowledge base out of their day-to-day email communication.

Needed from HN community: Review, advice, early adopters.

</comment><comment><USER9> Gridl | gridl.com (30 Nov)

People search, more or less.</comment>


Second U.S. Agent Agrees to Plead Guilty to Bitcoin Theft - <AUTHOR> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-23/second-u-s-agent-agrees-to-plead-guilty-to-bitcoin-theft <comment><USER3> Looking at the other side of the coin, perhaps also worth asking (even if the answer is a negative):

Given what we know about the coercive nature of the plea system in the US, which frequently forces people to plead guilty even when they're innocent, to avoid a very expensive, long, and likely "unhappy-ending" trial, is it possible that these FBI agents are actually innocent and simply being coerced into filing guilty pleas to turn 20 year sentences into 5 year sentences?

I mean, this is almost a banana republic we're talking about here after all. What was the percentage of people putting in guilty pleas who are innocent? I can't find the article but I recall it was quite high. If we apply this line of thinking to people we like, we should also apply it to people we don't like.

<comment><USER4> Would you be coerced to plea guilty knowing you were innocent?

<comment><USER5> Absolutely. Litigation is ruinously expensive and prosecutors have an almost flawless conviction rate. When you're placed in such a shitty situation where you get the choice of ruining your life a little and ruining your life a lot(and possibly your family and friends' lives as they try to help you along), it's not as cut and dry as "would you plead guilty knowing you were innocent". People do this _every day_. It's why prosecutors pile charges on, and it works.

<comment><USER6> > prosecutors have an almost flawless conviction rate.

This is because anytime there is an absolute chance they'll lose, they drop the case.

And if the case is less than a 100% guaranteed slam dunk, they'll ask for a plea so it'll never go to trial.

Prosecutors cherry pick their trials. It's not possible for every prosecutor everywhere to keep a 98%+ average trial conviction rate in a normal system.

<comment><USER7> Sounds like sensible and desirable behaviour to me. You might even call it "normal".

Edit: I'd really like to see how all the downvoters would like to defend their stance. It's obvious that prosecutorial misconduct is not happening when prosecutors abandon cases that are marginal, but when they are harassing people they don't have a chance of getting convicted.

<comment><USER8> Well I didn't downvote you, but: "Desirable behaviour" would be for a prosecutor to seek truth, not conviction. That's what I would call "normal". And guess what: there are countries in this world where prosecutors think like that: they are glad to drop charges as soon as they see someone's innocent.

<comment><USER9> The judge/jury/overall process seek the truth. I do not consider that the role of the prosecutor at all. I don't think legal philosophy aligns that way either?

<comment><USER7> I think it's a bit different in the United States, but in my country (D), for example, prosecutors have detailed guidelines how to proceed.

For one, they are obligated to investigate any exonerating evidence and circumstances, and any exculpatory circumstances. All of this must be revealed fully to the court and the defense, prior to the main trial.

For another, they must only charge when they believe that a conviction is more probable than an acquittal ("my chances are at best 20%, but let's see how it goes" would be clear misconduct).

In practice, the conviction rates are more than 90%, for sure (if you count a conviction for a lesser crime).

As a prosecutor once told me: trials can be freak events. After listening to the witnesses firsthand, or after some dramatic revelation, everything can look much different than it looked in the file. But other than that, they almost always win at least partially.

And another reason is workload. Apart from really high profile, highly publicized cases, resources are extremely limited and prosecutors mostly try to close the files.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I'll be interested to see what a gross abuse of power gets you, in terms of sentencing.

<comment><USER11> it seems to be related to the amount of people involved.

If you run away with a bag of cash, you'll get (metaphorically) beheaded.

If you and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and Countrywide run away with a bag of cash, prepare for a fairly bad spanking.

<comment><USER12> As they say: if you owe your banker one million dollars, he has you by the balls. If you owe your banker one billion dollars, you have him by the balls.

Edit: phrasing

<comment><USER13> "If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem." \- J. P. Getty

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> It is useful to get these regular reminders that the authorities to which we give every day more power, are as human as they have ever been. Reading this, it is not exactly outside of the realm of realism that an FBI/NSA/GCHQ/etc agent would sell private personal data collected in the name of anti- terrorism!

</comment><comment><USER15> >In addition, prosecutors allege Force used his supervisor's signature stamp on a subpoena to unfreeze one of his own accounts that had been blocked for suspicious activity.

...

>Bridges allegedly filed an affidavit for a warrant to seize the Mt. Gox Co. exchange, where Silk Road bitcoins were stored, and its owner's bank accounts two days after he had taken his own money out of it, according to the criminal complaint.

this couple of bad FBI apples obviously can't cast any doubt onto the integrity of the rest of the FBI Silk Road team (consisting mainly of pure- breed white knights in shiny Lexuses) nor onto the integrity of the whole investigation and conviction....... The trial was 3 ring circus beyond reasonable doubt. F&cking clowns. It isn't the issue whether DPR was this guy or not, or whether he really hired a killer. The issue is that my taxes are extorted from me in order to, supposedly, finance justice process, and what i've got for my money was a show so lame that it wasn't worth even a rotten tomato to throw at it.

In the light of the so far surfaced crimes by the FBI agents the epic heroic story [http://www.wired.com/2015/05/silk- road-2/](http://www.wired.com/2015/05/silk-road-2/) looks like a new story:

"DPR believed that Nob was a Puerto Rican cartel middleman named Eladio Guzman, but he was in fact DEA agent Carl Force. Force had spent more than a year developing his undercover identity on Silk Road in an effort to get close to DPR. They'd become confidants, spending nights chatting at such length that DPR trusted Nob when he needed enforcement muscle.

It was Nob whom DPR hired to kill his employee, Curtis Green. Force then coerced Green into faking his own death as a ruse. Force was surprised to see DPR's moral collapse up close, but then again, he'd seen this kind of thing before, during his younger DEA years in undercover. He too had experienced the temptations that came with a double identity. In fact, his secret life as a hard-partying operator had nearly destroyed his regular life. He'd left all that behind and recommitted himself to Christ. The Silk Road case was his first undercover role since those days, and it was a big one. Because of his tenure online as Nob, Force was able to carry out the supposed "hit" on Green, setting DPR up for a murder conspiracy indictment while at the same time cementing their relationship. Nob and DPR had become comrades-in-arms."

I mean, obviously, this heroic Force whose court testimonies and affidavits sent the guy for life couldn't be the same Force who stole the money. I mean we're talking about commitment to Christ after all... Did i mention clowns?

And this one is the icing - [http://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahjeong/2015/03/31/force- and-...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahjeong/2015/03/31/force-and- bridges/):

"A state's witness took the fall for an agent's theft, thus becoming the target for a murder-for-hire—a murder that was then faked by the same agent. The Silk Road case was compromised again and again as Force and Bridges allegedly took every opportunity to embezzle and steal money. With so much bitcoin on their hands, the two had to coax various bitcoin and payments companies to help convert their ill-gotten gains to dollars. When companies resisted, investigations were launched, subpoenas were issued, and civil forfeitures were sought in retaliation."

<comment><USER16> >I mean, obviously, this heroic Force whose court testimonies and affidavits sent the guy for life couldn't be the same Force who stole the money.

There was no affidavit or testimony by Force or Bridges, as far as I know. Please source that if true.

<comment><USER15> [http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/download.html?id=33909420&z...](http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/download.html?id=33909420&z=9e105f7b)

this is Ulbricht's murder-for-hire case in Maryland (the undercover agent in the indictment is obviously Force). That murder-for-hire charge has strongly affected the New York case, in particular it was the basis for denying bail to Ulbricht, not disclosing prosecution witnesses until the trial, and was also used as a strong argument in support of suppressing Ulbricht's 4th Amendment rights ([http://www.scribd.com/doc/238796613/Silk-Road- Prosecution-4t...](http://www.scribd.com/doc/238796613/Silk-Road- Prosecution-4th-Amendment-Rebuttall)). After all, the FBI stole the Ulbricht's laptop from the library. And obviously such murder charge "helped" the Judge to make up her mind, especially with respect to sentencing, and prepare her Grand Condemnation Speech (and to not let the Speech go waste the Judge didn't let the Ulbricht's defense to bring up the Force's and Bridge's crimes while that murder charge based on the Force's testimonies was heavily affecting the case).

<comment><USER16> There were 5 murders-for-hires claims, not all which were linked to Force. They don't rely on his testimony or affidavit.

You're conflating different charges here.

"After all, the FBI stole the Ulbricht's laptop from the library."

Don't see how that's relevant.

> And obviously such murder charge "helped" the Judge to make up her mind, > especially with respect to sentencing, and prepare her Grand Condemnation > Speech (and to not let the Speech go waste the Judge didn't let the > Ulbricht's defense to bring up the Force's and Bridge's crimes while that > murder charge based on the Force's testimonies was heavily affecting the > case).

They weren't allowed to bring it up publically, but they argued in front of the Judge all they wanted, so the claim that it affected the judge is irrelevant. The only people who couldn't see it that mattered was the jurt, but you'd have to claim that evidence gathered by Force/Bridges was brought up in court; that is not true, as far as I know.

There was sufficient evidence of the murder for hire charges just from the laptop seized with no input from Force.

<comment><USER15> >There were 5 murders-for-hires claims,

The total was 6.

>not all which were linked to Force. They don't rely on his testimony or affidavit.

You're right :) The other 5 didn't have even as much as the words of criminally crooked DEA agent behind them and thus quietly disappeared.

>You're conflating different charges here.

No, the Maryland case is exactly that 1 last murder-for-hire claim left - <USER2> SR employee CCG (Green) which is based on Force's testimony.

>"After all, the FBI stole the Ulbricht's laptop from the library."

>Don't see how that's relevant.

As i already explained (and you can google it yourself), that charge was used by prosecution to argue to suppress (and the suppression was granted) the 4th Amendment defense's motion.

>so the claim that it affected the judge is irrelevant.

Judge denied bail and denied disclosure of witnesses to defense because of that charge. How that can be said irrelevant? Judge sentenced Ulbricht to life, harshest possible sentence here. Obviously it was relevant here too.

>There was sufficient evidence of the murder for hire charges just from the laptop seized with no input from Force.

Until you was on that Maryland Grand Jury and witnessed yourself how the Jury guessed just from the laptop that the "Nob" was an undercover agent who was working on the case since specific date in 2012 ... As they clearly state in the indictment that it was such an undercover agent, thus they must have heard the testimony by Force, and thus whether this testimony was necessary is really a moot point because they did heard it and gave appropriate weight to it. Arguing after-the-fact that some "poisoned fruit" wasn't important would be an obvious loophole around "no fruit of poisoned tree" principle and thus isn't acceptable. And by the way, the laptop was stolen illegally, the 4th Amendment violation. And now see above about the 4th rights suppression :)

<comment><USER16> >No, the Maryland case is for the 1 murder-for-hire claim - of SR employee CCG (Green) which is based on Force's testimony.

Yes, but you also referred to murder for hire charges as influencing the judge; why do you think it's specifically Force's testimony that influenced her, as opposed to all the other evidence?

>As i already explained (and you can google it yourself), that charge was used by prosecution to argue to suppress (and the suppression was granted) the 4th Amendment defense's motion.

Can you excerpt the part of that document 9in a more searchable form here [https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp- content/uploads/2014/09/silkr...](https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp- content/uploads/2014/09/silkroaddoc.pdf)) that says that? I've read through much of it, and the charge isn't mentioned as part of any 4th Amendment claims; it's hard to see how that would even make sense legally.

>Judge denied bail because of that charge. How that can be said irrelevant?

It's irrelevant insofar as any claims that Force isn't reliable; the judge knew whatever was from Force (which you still haven't shown, but even if you did), and the judge knew Force was being charged, so they could take it into account.

>As they clearly state in the indictment that it was such an undercover agent, thus they must have heard the testimony by Force, and thus whether this testimony was necessary is really a moot point because they did heard it.

They Maryland Jury may have heard from Force, but that wasn't what his trial was based on. To support your claim above, you need to show that what he was actually sentenced on was based on Force's testimony/affidavit, and as there was plenty of evidence without Force and nothing obtained by Force was brought up in the trial, your claim seems very week.

>And by the way, the laptop was stolen illegally

Says who? They had a warrant. Did you even read that document you linked?

<comment><USER15> we're kind of starting to walk in circles. Search this one for example for "Maryland" (prosecution's bail denial motion granted by the Judge).

[http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2013/11/Ross-U...](http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2013/11/Ross- Ulbricht_Gov-Bail-Response-to-Bail-Request.pdf)

There is nothing about Force's crimes in the document. So the "honest" Force's testimony based Maryland case (read the description of the other 5 murder-for- hire claims if you don't see how the Maryland was the Force's case, and it was the only claim that made it at least to the indictment stage) was used to deny bail in the New York case where Ulbricht was sentenced to life. Or to "protect" witnesses from him - [https://www.unitedstatescourts.org/federal/nysd/422824/107-0...](https://www.unitedstatescourts.org/federal/nysd/422824/107-0.html). If you fail to see connection here ... Anyway, i rest my case :)

Edit: in response to your response below - denied bail, denied timely access to witnesses, denied other stuff with that "murder-for-hire" going though a lot of the trial's documents - it is obviously that Judge "gave notice" to that charge and thus the trial was obviously "poisoned". As i already mentioned above, allowing for the after-the-fact calculation of exact gaps and other effects by the "poison" would be a loophole around the "no-poisoning" principle. The trial was materially poisoned, and thus the sentence poisoned too.

<comment><USER16> That document is from 2013; did the government even know Force was guilty of anything at the time?

And that doesn't prove your claim that he was sentenced to life based on Force's testimony, only denied bail. There's quite a large gap between those two claims.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I'm just glad these heroes are keeping us safe.</comment>


Ask HN: Intern Housing in Sunnyvale/Mountain View? - <AUTHOR>

Hi HN, I am summer interning at a nearby tech company and am having an impossible time finding somewhere affordable to live - does anyone on here have a room to sublet now til mid august or need roommates?<p>edit: forgot contact information - you can reach me at [my username] @mit.edu <comment><USER2> There's a place called "Stonehenge" that seems to be popular for short-time stays in the valley, but otherwise the housing situation is pretty tough right now.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah I saw it on airbnb, however they are mostly booked up this month. Thanks :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I didn't see any contact info in your profile, but if you email me at [my hn username]@gmail I may be able to help.</comment>


Watch Alexis keynote live at Swagapalooza, plus WakeMate and Picwing - 7PM EST - <AUTHOR> http://www.justin.tv/swagapalooza

<comment><AUTHOR> Bacon Hot Sauce (another presenter) will also be presenting. They are sort of a side project of Gamador (YC w10).

Anyway we forgot the charger for the video camera, so we aren't broadcasting now but we'll go live in about 30 minutes.</comment>


Ask HN: Docker, VM, whatever for documenting on MacOS/Windows? - <AUTHOR> I am writing some tutorials on things like GitHub and using Golang with Google Cloud SQL. I want to make sure I can start from scratch fairly often because I want to recreate the new user experience: Creating SSH keys, installing MySQL from scratch, etc. It's awfully easy to assume a user experience that the novice cannot recreate easily. I am doing multiple tests to keep those problems to a minimum.
My host systems are MacOS and Windows. Ideally I could do the docs for Ubunutu (is that the most common denominator?) or Fedora. Most of the tutorials are on the command line, not the GUI.
What's the best way to create reproducible environments that I can tear down and reset to zero quickly? I am thinking that Docker would be a good way to go, but maybe Windows support isn't there yet? Or does Windows 10 have some kind of hypervisor that would let me blow away subshell or something?
I think the best way to do this probably Docker, but I don't know how to make the Windows shell a docker image.
Or maybe Virtual Box is the way to go? I have the luxury of a brand new Windows 10 laptop, if that makes a difference. <comment><USER2> Docker support is great on Windows! I'd definitely advise you to use Docker with Docker Compose. Docker Compose makes Docker function like Vagrant.

A novice can easily install Docker for Mac/Windows, it includes Docker Compose and even has a GUI that will guide users in setting up a hyperviser.

</comment><comment><USER3> Have you explored Vagrant?

[https://www.vagrantup.com/](https://www.vagrantup.com/)

<comment><USER4> I've used VirtualBox plus Vagrant while experimenting with how to set up web servers, DBs and the like.

But it sounds like his readers are assumed to be starting from scratch and doing things manually. If so, then while developing the docs I might choose to just use VirtualBox by itself, and snapshot just after installation, and just after each significant addition. It's pretty easy to start over at a snapshot, and it's one less moving part without Vagrant.

<comment><AUTHOR> I did not think of Vagrant. Parent's analysis and suggestions regarding VirtualBox are exactly on target. Thank you for answering the question so ably.</comment></comment></comment>


Six decade-long disinformation operations - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/swlh/watch-six-decade-long-disinformation-operations-unfold-in-six-minutes-5f69a7e75fb3 <comment><USER2> Six countries: the bad guys of the movies, exception was Ecuador, allied country with an illegitimate government backed by Trump administration.

Why nobody in USA wants to investigate the accounts that helped with military- civil coup in Bolivia against Morales by a bunch of racist and neonazis backed by US ambassador, or their intervention in Brazil against Lula Da Silva and Dilma Rousseff. Hypocrisy.</comment>


Disney Shuts Down Infinity - <AUTHOR> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/05/disney-infinity-shuts-down-as-disney-drops-out-of-game-publishing/ <comment><AUTHOR> This is surprising to me, because if Disney can't make money doing a business that is toys + licensed games, I wonder why they do anything in the interactive space at all. They should just license their IP.

</comment><comment><USER2> I think the game / toys were quite pricey, I wonder if products will continue to be playable or if they depend on some central servers for stuff?</comment>


Stop Trying to Reduce the Number of Complaints - <AUTHOR> https://redfin.engineering/stop-trying-to-reduce-the-number-of-complaints-cf5456284432 <comment><USER2> This is a good article. It I don't understand the point of the title. Other than the subhead it doesn't seem to be mentioned again.

Learned helplessness is a real nuisance that I seem to keep running into wherever I go. It's the perfect term for something I was trying to describe earlier today. Thanks.

<comment><AUTHOR> (Author here.) The point of the article is that when people have learned helplessness, they stop complaining.

That may seem like we're doing a good job of serving their needs ("no complaints!") but in fact the complaints are missing because we're doing such a terrible job that everyone has lost faith in us.</comment></comment>


What Emoji Say About Music - <AUTHOR> https://insights.spotify.com/es/2017/05/02/spotify-emoji-music/ <comment><USER2> Here's Beyonce vs Jay Z: [https://public.tableau.com/shared/F2M9M742R?:display_count=y...](https://public.tableau.com/shared/F2M9M742R?:display_count=yes)

</comment><comment><USER3> This is awesome!!</comment>


Is Apple planning to take on Microsoft Mesh with Me.com? - <AUTHOR> http://venturebeat.com/2008/06/02/is-apple-planning-to-take-on-microsoft-mesh-with-mecom/ <comment><USER2> "Imagine a service from Apple that was free and allowed you to sync multiple Apple products via the Internet"

Amazing, now I can snc my iPod with my ... iPod.

Which shines the light on the major problem of services like this. I don't want to be tied to 1 vendor for all my services and devices. All-in-one solutions only work when one sacrifices the advantages of mixing and matching the very best service and hardware from other manufactures.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> This might be apt as well..

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=206296>

</comment><comment><USER3> should that not be i.com?</comment>


Popular Unix Text Editors and How to Exit Them - <AUTHOR> http://darkdepths.net/popular-unix-text-editors-how-to-exit-them.html <comment><USER2> Or, you could just do the following.

        ## Ctrl-z (suspend current application)
        $ kill -9 %1

That assumes you want to lose your changes which I suspect is okay in this situation since it's 'Howto Quit..' not 'Howto do Make Changes, Write, and Quit...'

<comment><USER3> hey nice trick to reference background tasks!

Thanks for sharing

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Vi and Vim are very different in this regard: (Most versions of?) vim shows how to quit both on start and when pressing ^C.

</comment><comment><USER5> Missing Joe.

</comment><comment><USER6> this assumes that the content is unchanged or already saved for every case.</comment>


Grammar Puss - <AUTHOR> http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/articles/media/1994_01_24_thenewrepublic.html

<comment><AUTHOR> I love this so much. It's freeing to think of English as just a hodge-podge of mismashed languages - because it is!

Current grammar is just a snapshot of the evolving mush of english frozen in time. I'm happy to let go of some of those awkward rules that sound so odd in our current version of english.

Grammar should always be the servant of meaning, not the other way around.

P.S.

If you're feeling truly adventurous, watch the 8 part historical documentary on The Adventure of English: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t32nCpzxHUc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t32nCpzxHUc) (part 1)</comment>