Fixing the computer guy posture [pdf] - <AUTHOR> http://kaasplateau.com/stretches.pdf <comment><USER2> When you ignore (or are unaware of) ergonomic issues for years, you can get into serious trouble (like I did). I had been programming for over 10 years without any problems (and without paying any attention to ergonomics), and 7 years ago I got Repetitive Stress Injury (RSI) really bad. I tried many things to get rid of it, including lots of exercises like the ones in this post, but it was very hard to get rid of. The RSI got so bad that I thought I had to give up programming all together.

Fortunately I managed to find a combination that worked for me. The most important component was using a break program that made sure I took breaks to rest my arms and hands, and to do some exercises. I also switched to an ergonomic keyboard and mouse. I am now completely recovered, but it really made me realize that we need to pay attention to ergonomics.

I've written up my story in more detail here: <http://henrikwarne.com/2012/02/18/how-i-beat-rsi/>

In addition to what I mention in my post, I am now also using a height- adjustable desk (some people think they are expensive, but they're not). It's really good to be able to switch between sitting and standing. If you are like me for the first 10 years of my career (i.e. ignoring ergonomics), consider paying a little bit of attention now, otherwise it may become a problem later on.

<comment><USER3> Years ago I also got RSI. One thing that helped me a lot was to think about lactic acid. Your body doesn't have a lot of problems with repeating motion unless the milk acid can't be transported. And I think stress is the main reason why the transportation of milk acid is blocked because it make your muscles contract. I also think we are so used to stress that we don't even realize we are under pressure.

That's why exercise is great. It will help your remove the milk acid but also to release stress.

<comment><USER4> You have a flawed understanding of how your cells consume glucose.

Lactic acid it not produced in any significant quantity during 'normal operation' of your body.

Your cells break down glucose into a molecule called pyruvate in a process called 'glycolysis'. This yields some 'energy' (in the form of ATP). This process requires some energy, so the net gain is only two ATP. It also requires a couple NAD- ions, which pick up some spare hydrogen protons that get kicked out. Those NAD- get turned into NADH, are are used later in the process (and turned back into NAD-, so they can facilitate more 'glycolysis').

If the cell has enough oxygen, it can then oxidize the pyruvate in the Citric Acid Cyle (aka the TCA cycle, aka the Kreb's cycle), gaining many times more ATP (34, in total).

If, however, the cell doesn't have enough oxygen, it can't run the TCA cycle. This isn't a big deal in the short term. Your cells can keep running through that glycolosis process to produce energy as long as they have enough glucose to break down, and enough NAD- to grab protons. The glucose isn't generally a problem. Your body keeps a fair amount of it in the blood, and the liver can release more pretty easily.

The problem is the limited number of NAD- ions in your cells. Once those are used up, glycolosis stops. Fortunately, your cells can 'free them up' by using them to turn pyruvate into lactate. This produces the 'milk acid' you talk about, but it frees up the NAD- for more glycolosis. The cell hangs on to the lactate for a while in the hopes of getting more oxygen it can use to turn it back into pyruvate and run it through the TCA cycle, and if that doesn't happen, it eventually diffuses out into the blood where it ends up in the liver, which uses it to build up its glycogen stores for the next time there's a sudden demand for a lot of glucose.

So, in short, unless you're exercising hard, your body will have no trouble meeting its oxygen demand, and no lactic acid will be produced. This has been an overly simplified (but mostly accurate) description of this process. I'd encourage you to do your own research to learn more (the search terms 'cellular respiration' 'glycolosis' and 'citric acid cycle' should all be useful)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I'm surprised that the OP didn't mention reverse flies. I developed terrible RSI and upper back problems when I hit about 30. One of the biggest problems was my posture: slumping shoulders. By the time I got to this point, I could not physically hold my shoulders in the correct position with my back muscles, as they had completely atrophied, and a huge amount of strain was being placed on my neck muscles.

One part of the solution was physical therapy, which was mostly training me how to do the exercises I needed to do: reverse flies. First with a Theraband. Then with a stronger Theraband. Then with a stronger Theraband. And finally with dumbbells.

It was torturous! Especially since I was already in agony. But it ultimately worked like a charm.

What was also essential was getting a very good (i.e., expensive and highly adjustable) chair. And a Kinesis Contour keyboard. The Kinesis keyboard is the pinnacle of ergonomic keyboard design.

<comment><USER6> This is actually not op's pdf, but mine. A friend told me it was on the front page here.

Reverse flies are, indeed, a great thing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Has anyone successfully fixed the computer guy posture? I see a lot of prescriptions and speculation (Yoga, Egoscue, Alexander Technique, weightlifting plans, stretching/foam rolling, etc) but zero evidence. At least some empirical evidence with documented workouts and continuous before/after photos would be nice.

Also this PDF just ripped images off the Internet. I recognized some of them from youtube videos and books I have. The fact this was hastily put together is another reason to question its accuracy or the (uncredited) author's authority on the subject.

<comment><USER8> A few years ago I had the traditional "computer guy" posture, with slumping shoulders and neck.

I began, for unrelated reasons, barbell strength training. Deadlifts, Squats, and Presses. They have had a dramatic effect on my posture.

I believe that by spending time lifting barbells, I gained better control over and awareness of my upper-back muscles, and that plus the improved muscle tone means I no longer slump the way I used to do.

I'm 29 now, and have never had repetitive strain problems. I believe I'm less likely to do so now than before I began strength training.

So, there's some anecdata.

<comment><USER9> If you already have upper crossed syndrome or otherwise stretched out lats and tight pecs, deadlifting without paying attention to form will not only exacerbate this but also cause you lower back strain. Glad to hear you avoided this, but I would caution against anyone just picking up a barbell to cure posture. Focus deeply on the motion and drawing your shoulderblades back at all times especially on the lowering phase. It's far too easy to round on deadlifts when going heavy, and therein lies danger for those already inclined towards rounded shoulders.

<comment><USER8> Anyone who is interested at beginning strength training I'd encourage to pick up a copy of Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength. It has very detailed instructions of all the important movements.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I first came across most of this information from these two posts: [http://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/ewrr0/writeup_on_th...](http://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/ewrr0/writeup_on_the_dreaded_anterior_pelvic_tilt_or/) [http://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/exgiu/a_guide_to_fi...](http://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/exgiu/a_guide_to_fixing_computer_guy_posture_upper_body/)

I have been doing many of the exercises for some time now. Not only do they feel good, I can really notice the difference they make. Many thanks to Reddit-user troublesome.

</comment><comment><USER6> I'm the creator of the PDF. I just got a call from a friend who told me my link was on here. Glad to see people like it.

Props for the document go to the fitness community on reddit, where a bunch popular posts have inspired me to make this.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask them here.

</comment><comment><USER11> If you want to stabilize a structure, strengthen it.

As the article notes, weakness of the glutes and hamstrings, combined with a _relative_ over-activation of quads and spinal erectors, is part of the problem.

 _Most_ people with poor posture, especially past their mid-20s, are suffering from underdeveloped musculature generally.

While several of the exercises noted are helpful at targeting muscle activation, if you really want to develop the posterior chain, _and_ other muscles, in a balanced fashion, focusing on major lifts is going to do far more for you in less workout time than a bunch of small/isolated movements.

Deadlifts, squats, rows and chins, and yes, some mirror-muscle upper-body work with bench and overhead press. The recently posted "Everything you know about fitness is a lie" article ([http://www.mensjournal.com/magazine/everything- you-know-abou...](http://www.mensjournal.com/magazine/everything-you-know- about-fitness-is-a-lie-20120504)) details this pretty well.

For acute treatment, the PDF is handy, but you'd be far better off to invest in _Starting Strength_. (<http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/about>)

And yes, foam rolling also helps.

<comment><USER12> I don't have an opinion on major lifts as I have fairly little experience with them, but as a younger man I would have (uninformedly) considered them "not right for me". What I _did_ find right for me was intense rowing (on a machine), which I believe develops many of the same support muscles (but doesn't lead to the hypertrophy-induced visible muscle growth the same way lifts do, so if that's your goal rowing may not fit you).

For my tastes, I find rowing the perfect counterbalance to a sedentary lifestyle. The full-body compression/extension cycle just _feels_ like the direct opposite of sitting fixed at a desk all day. It may be psychological, but it's very common for me to sense a relative weakening in my posture control muscles if I miss a week of rowing for holidays or illness.

Related tip: if you find long (6+ hr) flights physically taxing (yes, first world problems etc.), improving your posture control musculature can provide noticeable relief. Even as a teenager I used to dread having to sit upright and mostly fixed in place on transatlantic flights, but ever since I took up rowing in my early 20s I almost never feel cramped or fatigued anymore even on long haul 15+hr flights.

<comment><USER11> Understand physiology and the body's response to training stimulus.

A rowing machine is cardio (and it's good cardio), but, other than some very modest strength and hypertrophy response, you're not going to do much muscle development. My experience with it and kettlebell swings suggests that they may help with activation, particularly doing high-tension sets (damper set to 10, 20-40 pulls). Rowing pretty much is "the anti-desk", with the exception that you're performing the activity in a seated position. The main target is improving your cardiovascular performance, capability, and endurance.

What strength training does specifically is recruit muscle motor units (bundles of muscle cells). These are differentiated largely by size and response time, and activating a given bundle requires triggering its controlling nerve. Higher loads trigger larger motor units. Stimulus is usually classified by sets, reps, percent of one rep maximum load (1RM), "tempo" (how long you take raising and lowering the weight), and power vs. strength lifts ("Olympic" lifts are, confusingly, based on power, "powerlifts" are, confusingly, based on strength).

The strength training concept of "specificity" (also given as "SAID": specific adaptation to imposed demand) says that you'll get a training _response_ that corresponds to the training _stimulus_. This means both the specific muscles, and type of lift determine the training response. If you want stronger legs, do squats, not bicep curls. If you want to get stronger, lift heavier (80-95% 1RM) weights for fewer reps. If you want endurance, lighter (30-50% 1RM) weights for more reps (15-20 or so). Hypertrophy (increased mass) is maximized by moderate resistance and reps maximizing time under tension.

Wikipedia's Strength Training article summarizes this nicely: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strength_training#Realization_o...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strength_training#Realization_of_training_goals)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Interesting, some of the exercises are new to me. However I have yet to come across a resource that presents both exercises and references to scientific papers/resources proving that such and such technique is beneficial in medium to long-term. Mere "common sense" can be really backfiring when it comes to your spine. Does anyone know of such resource?

<comment><USER14> The science, roughly speaking, doesn't exist. In fitness, the coverage of science is generally very poor, and the wisdom and experience of trainers is valued over the few, usually poorly-designed small-n papers that exist.

<comment><USER15> That's not true. Yes, there are plenty of areas that have limited research or small studies but overall there is more than enough to form scientifically based methods of fitness. The best trainers know this and base their methods on research and adjust as new research is published.

Perhaps this is what you meant and just didn't word it well.

<comment><USER14> That is not what I meant, I do not agree with you.

Are there some interesting studies? Yes, a few, and some trainers are aware of those. (I challenge you/anyone to provide a list of 5 great fitness papers! For funsies, I'm not saying it can't be done.)

However, in general, we're all flying seat of our pants.

I'd love to see some examples of the bedrock research that you believe trainers rely upon.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> There was also some good articles on t nation some years ago:

(De)-Constructing Computer Guy [http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_trai...](http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/deconstructing_computer_guy)

(De)-Constructing Computer Guy part 2 [http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_trai...](http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/deconstructing_computer_guy_the_other_23_hours)

Possibly nsfw imagery on the site.

<comment><USER17> Add to this: [http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_trai...](http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_repair/neanderthal_no_more_part_i)

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> I've been using Nike+ Kinect for 5~6 weeks now. It creates a workout plan for you based on an assessment that you do at the beginning. I've found it to be very challenging at times (when I push myself, e.g. by doing a second round) and now I'm additionally impressed: a lot of the lower body stabilization exercises on this PDF are also exercises that the game assigned to my workout plan.

<comment><USER19> As a geek who likes to exercise, you should also check out Starting Strength. (It always comes up in discussions about fitness here.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Some other useful links (I think I found them in the Reddit post) [http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_trai...](http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/deconstructing_computer_guy) [http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_trai...](http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/deconstructing_computer_guy_the_other_23_hours)

and a great video <http://www.magnificentmobility.com/>

</comment><comment><USER21> If we are talking about ergonomics, RSI and such, I am using a Kinesis Freestyle with an Ascent -- vertical keyboard with the usual QWERTY layout. And an Evoluent VerticalMouse. Bliss. I wish for some solution to offload my thumb but other than that, this is lightyears ahead of any other setup. When Leap Motion will be released I will buy one (or Leap Motion will send me a dev copy, I just applied) and try to create an alternative "keyboard".

</comment><comment><USER22> Some of the claims are just plain wrong. "Heavy lifting" doesn't make your posture worse. If you squat with good technique, working up to heavy loads, you'll have rock hard lower back stabilizers - cause otherwise, you won't be able to squat heavy.

<comment><USER23> Yeah. Also: "what you do in the gym only cements what you have"—what kind of nonsense is this? If you go to a gym with a weak core and start to work out with free weights you will fix it. How do you cement something that is not even here?

<comment><USER24> It's not things like the lack of core strength in itself that is a problem. You are right that will improve.

But if you for example go to the gym with a tight posterior chain, you will squat with a form that either hurts your lower back (been there, done that) or makes you emphasise the wrong muscles (been there, done that) and leave you with progressively bigger problems lifting correctly.

Similarly, it is very easy to get used to lifting with a form that is bad for you because it feels easier, which often means emphasising the muscle groups that already feels stronger. E.g. with a weak core a lot of people will lean forwards in the squat and load the spine too much.

I got to about 60kg on my back squats before I kept slamming into a wall because of how bad posture had severely limited my mobility and left me with various weaknesses. I'd repeatedly either fail or hurt my back badly enough I had to back off for 2-3 weeks. As a result after the second time I started hesitating, and kept my weight low, but eventually I'd hit it again.

When I realized what was wrong, it took me 2-3 months of stretches and modified exercises before I had loosened up enough that I flew past 100kg. 6 months later I did 160kg. Now my personal best is 187.5k (which I did at a body weight of 98, so it's no amazing feat, but it's certainly a big difference from struggling with 60%-65% of my body weight...).

<comment><USER25> _But if you for example go to the gym with a tight posterior chain, you will squat with a form that either hurts your lower back... or makes you emphasise the wrong muscles... and leave you with progressively bigger problems lifting correctly._

Not to say that what you ended up doing was wrong, but to me this just indicates the need for a coach, or at least doing a lot more reading before you start lifting. If you have a structurally weak and tight posterior chain, you need to add romanian deadlifts to your program. Nobody (except Rippetoe) advocates blindly following a program like like starting strength. You can lift heavy while you correct imbalances, you just need to make sure the exercises you're doing are correcting the imbalances you have.

<comment><USER24> Romanian deadlifts was in fact one of the exercises I _was_ doing to try to overcome the problem the first time around. It did nothing for me. Not saying it can't help, but it compared to the speed I progressed at within weeks of starting my stretches, I'll stick with the stretches.

And I did see a coach, who was also a qualified physiotherapist. What I was recommended was pretty much the stretches in the linked article.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> This all looks unnecessarily complicated. I had really bad posture for most of my life and I fixed it with two things: deadlifts and cable rows. After the major muscular weaknesses are corrected (and those two exercises _will_ correct them), it's just a matter of habit correction- stand while you work, walk with your stomach tight and shoulders back, don't let yourself slouch when you sit, etc.

This ain't rocket science. You don't need to spend an hour a day with 10 different exercises. You can fix the muscular weaknesses in 30 minutes, once a week.

<comment><USER24> If your posture problem is related to too poor flexibility, deadlift will not fix the problems. On the contrary, you can potentially put your back at severe risk as your form will break down.

You don't need to spend an hour a day, but not nearly all posture issues are down to muscular weakness.

For my part, I discovered my posture problems as a _result_ of deadlifts and squats, that eventually got to sufficient weight that I was unable to compensate or work around the underlying lack of flexibility and ended up dangerously close to properly hurting my back.

<comment><USER11> The key with deads (or any other lift) is to get the form right _first_.

Doing full ROM lifts _will_ improve your flexibility. I find this holds true more for squats than deads, specifically (you're getting pressed down with the bar, and have to retain proper back/spine alignment), but it's all useful.

If your form's breaking down, you're lifting too heavy.

What causes other than muscle weakness do you identify as causing posture issues?

<comment><USER24> If you're not flexible enough, you're not _able_ to do full ROM lifts with proper form.

Once you're flexible enough to actually do the lifts properly, I agree you will see it improving further. But if you're flexible to do the lifts properly, you don't really have a problem.

When I started was not physically able at all to get reasonable depth in my squats before I would either need to stop or curve my back, no matter the weight. I also could hardly bend over while keeping my back firm - it'd be like stretching a violin string along the back of my legs.

A couple of months of stretches from my pysiotherapist got my squats from about 60kg to about 140kg in less than 6 months, after I'd spent the previous 6 months stalled completely because any attempt to go higher led to total form breakdown, and a lot of time before that with abysmally slow progress.

<comment><USER11> Doing squats (and, if necessary, _additional_ mobility work) will increase your flexibility.

Doing light / BW / goblet squats is very low risk, and will help iron out your form.

My point is that if your form is crap, _and_ you're using any added load, then you're going too heavy. If your form is crap at BW (and adding a modest load, 45-95# for most trainees) doesn't iron that out (sometimes a bit of "bar discipline" _does_ help sort out form), then, yes, work on form.

My experience is that you want to eliminate the obvious and simple stuff _first_ (Occam's Razor), and that for most trainees I've seen, starting with simple cues and light weights addresses form issues sufficiently. KISS.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> I have always had bad posture, and I have looked far and wide for how to correct it. I think exercise is part of the equation, but I have also seen some strong people with bad posture. Another thing that has helped me has been the alexander technique. Before I learned about it, I didn't really understand what good posture was.

here is an example about how to "hold your head up"

<http://www.freeyourneck.com/blog/?p=176>

</comment><comment><USER28> I have RSI. The benefit of it is that it forces you to not take typing prodigiously for granted and by extension - to look at the long view of your programming career. So many people glorify in pounding out code, working hard - a 21st century pissing contest. Once you have symptoms of RSI, you are forced to think different.

It does not happen all at once. Boiling frog, eta 5 years. The warning signs are pain after a coding session, maybe a 2 or 3 on a scale of ten. However, eventually it gets worse. And your youth will act as such that the pain goes away. After a long weekend, you are recharged and re-healthy. That is a falsehood. Eventually, it gets to the point where the pain never goes away, it just subsides, constant background soreness, maybe on a 2 to 3 on a scale of ten.

Don't take your typing ability for granted. RSI can be managed but never completely cured.

The same traits that may make us good problem solvers (focus - as in not getting up, breaking that slippery, seductive state called "Flow", OCD - ignoring some things to focus, sometimes right, sometimes wrong on certain aspects, sedentary habits (biking FTW)) can make RSI an eventuality for a few.

<comment><USER29> As a 22-year-old I have been fairly warned and for many reasons take breaks every hour and have a walk around the room. RSI is just one of many reasons to take breaks, people.

Edit: I stand up and code every now and then, and also use Dvorak!

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> I'll pitch in with one that hasn't been mentioned yet. The Egoscue method: <http://www.egoscue.com/meetpete.php>. In particular Pete Egoscue's book Pain Free.

I had a horribly seized neck a while ago where I couldn't look over my left shoulder. This had come on after visiting a physio for a very stiff upper back (a legacy of military service and lots of programming). I bought the book after reading about it in the 4 hour body and did _1_ set of the exercises. My neck had more range of motion after 25 minutes than it had for months and several hundred pounds worth of physio appointments.

This and other information on self treating trigger points (<http://saveyourself.ca/tutorials/trigger-points.php>) has got my back in better shape than before I joined the marines!

</comment><comment><USER31> I don't get how people can use laptops all day long. The form factor is totally unergonomic. I always use an external monitor, keyboard, and mouse when at my desk.

<comment><USER32> I find a laptop very comfortable in my lap, not on a desk.

<comment><USER31> Just because you find it comfortable doesn't mean it's ergonomic. A laptop on a desk is bad for your arms and hands, while a laptop on your lap is bad for your neck and head. As explained in this document from Berkeley[0]:

> Unfortunately, the laptop's compact design, with attached screen and > keyboard, forces laptop users into awkward postures. When the screen is at > the right height, the keyboard position is too high; and when the keyboard > is at the right height, the screen is too low.

> Laptops pose less risk when used for short periods of time, but nowadays, > many people use laptops as their main computer. _This creates an ongoing > tradeoff between poor neck/head posture and poor hand/wrist posture._

In your case, you are simply avoiding poor hand/wrist posture at the expense of having poor neck/head posture. However, having the laptop on your lap is better than having it on a desk. But even then, it should only be used occasionally, and not full-time.

0: <http://uhs.berkeley.edu/facstaff/pdf/ergonomics/laptop.pdf>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> For years I suffered with really nasty chronic back pain. I tried back specialists, drugs, massage, exercise... Then my wife told me (I think it may be a lie..) that the Australian Rugby League team did pilates, and so, my masculine pride unimpaired I went and I did a session.

It is an instant cure. If you have a really good teacher (there are lots of clowns out there, look for someone who is gentle and runs advanced classes as well, then go to the beginner class) Make sure that you let them know that you have issues, and don't be afraid to stop and miss exercises that you feel uncomfortable with or worried about.

</comment><comment><USER34> I've not had any posture or RSI problems, but here comes that word: YET. A few people have commented that whenever I stop typing I like to stretch my arms right down to the fingertips and adjust my position on the chair, sometimes getting up completely and straightening my clothes. It's an unconscious habit so I find it hilarious when people point it out but that could be something that has helped me.

These sets look very familiar to me as similar core exercises to ones I've done as part of rowing and yoga, but there are a few new ideas here I can't wait to try. Thanks!

</comment><comment><USER35> Seeing that picture of a "computer guy" I see my opinion confirmed that notebooks have killed more health than they brought productivity. Get a docking station, a good display, some good input devices and your posture will improve automatically.

PS. And don't get me started on the strain on the eyes by all those "vivid colors" reflecting displays -- I still remember using a screen filter to avoid reflections on an already matte display!

</comment><comment><USER36> I had this kind of posture as a teenager. When I started squatting 300+ pounds, I compounded my problem and wound up in physical therapy off and on for three years. My PT had me do a lot of the exercises and stretches on this list.

In short, if you've never addressed your own posture issues, consider doing so! Back pain is worse than pain in the extremities because it is continuous and affects everything you do.

</comment><comment><USER37> If you are in your twenties and healthy, please learn from my mistakes. I suffered from wrist pain and lower back pain. I used all sorts of ergonomic keyboards, chairs, even a special back brace. Eventually I was seeing a chiropractor and massage therapist once a week. None of that worked, because I spent all my time sitting in a chair staring at a computer.

I started weight training and yoga, and my wrist and back pain disappeared. I thought I was done and everything was fine.

But I was still sitting in a chair all day every day, and more than a decade like that herniated a disc in my neck. The initial symptoms were a persistent pain in my upper shoulder blade for months. The doctor said this would not have happened if I had just got up once an hour, and he sees tons of desk workers end up the same.

Since then I have seen some improvement by using a program to force me to look away from the screen at intervals, and to get up once an hour.

My posture is still horrible, but now the remaining struggle is simply staying aware enough to avoid bad habits (slouching, letting my head fall forward, etc).

<comment><USER38> Thanks for sharing. This type of situation is what concerns me. Even with regular exercise (lifting/running/yoga), I'm worried that the overall amount of time spent sitting every day will lead to adverse consequences in 20 years.

When I first came across the idea of treadmill desks I thought they were rather silly, but now I'm seriously considering getting one. They aren't cheap though (unless you do a hacky DIY job).

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> I had a similar experience to henrik_w, though more around low back pain from prolonged computer usage. I felt the crazy thing was that I was in good shape and also knew how I should be sitting, and the importance of taking short breaks from the computer. I just never did those things when I was concentrating on my work.

I ended up creating a software solution that included break reminders but also uses your webcam to check your posture and remind you whenever you sit in a bad posture (or even a good one, since sitting rigidly in _any_ posture for long periods is part of the problem).

It's not a substitute for exercise, but it is a simple, low-cost way to keep good posture in mind throughout the working day, without being overly intrusive. It's called Postureminder and there's a 30-day free download on my website, <http://www.postureminder.co.uk>

Phil

</comment><comment><USER40> Here's another useful resource regarding posture and sitting [1] by Kelly Starrett, who's probably well-noted in strength training circles for his MobilityWOD project. He explains how to sit and provides guidance on several related topics such as shoulder/hip mobility and hydration. He also illustrates some massages and stretches you can do to take care of your _junk_ through hours of prolonged sit-and-keyboarding.

For what its worth, I've been following along with his MobilityWOD project [2] for some time and it has immensely helped with my strength training pursuits.

[1] <http://youtu.be/kfg_e6YG37U> [2] <http://www.mobilitywod.com>

</comment><comment><USER41> If we just follow the lifting guide posted a few days ago [1], wouldn't "computer guy posture" fix itself?

[1] <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4971196>

<comment><USER24> If your specific issues are due to muscular weaknesses, yes. If it's due to reduced flexibility, then no. Chances are it'll be a bit of both.

Try bending over with your back in a slight upwards arch while keeping your legs completely straight and together.

Can you get below 90 degrees? If not, your flexibility along your posterior chain is poor. Can you effortlessly reach your toes with your fingers (you can bend your back this time)? If not, same.

Strength training alone won't fix those. And in fact, that poor flexibility will make it very hard to maintain proper form when lifting weights, and you're putting yourself at greater risk of hurting yourself.

On the upside, only a couple of months of stretches is enough to see a substantial improvement.

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> Here's a startup idea: a hip site with daily exercises targeted at people like us. There should be two levels: no supplies and having basic weight set (so it gives me the option of doing it at work on home too). You could track fitness, and tie it to a mobile app which reminds you. I'm sick of fitness being geared toward getting tone, losing weight, body building etc. I am just concerned with living healthy, so I want a minimum workout.

<comment><USER39> It's not quite what you suggest, but <http://www.konkura.com> is run by my brother - it lets people create fitness-related challenges (which can be entire workouts or even workout schedules, or just a single exercise) to share with friends. You can compete with people who have similar interests around the world, or keep challenges private to just a circle of friends who have a common fitness goal. There's a wide range of challenges already created by fitness enthusiasts so there's always something new to do. Worth checking out.

</comment></comment><comment><USER43> If the hour-long sitting is the cause of the problems, why not fix them by using height-adjustable sit-stand tables? They've become popular in our office...

<comment><USER23> hour-long standing brings other problems, alas.

<comment><USER19> That's why you should take frequent breaks. And from my own experience, it's way easier to take a mini break on a standing desk then when sitting down.

Removing even trivial hurdles can sometimes drastically impact behaviour.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> Same thing in fewer words: 'Do yoga.'

<comment><USER45> Actually this brings up one concern I've had for a while. I've been doing yoga fairly regularly (2x a week) for about six years. I have no problem keeping up with advanced classes, holding plank/bridge/wheel, can almost do a full split, etc. Yet, I have pretty extreme APT. I don't really know where I'm going wrong; I've tried similar exercise and stretching regimens in the past, supplementing the yoga, but never seemed to get anywhere with them. As a result, I feel like perhaps more direct strength training (squat, deadlift, etc) might be worth a shot. Thoughts?

Also, is APT the same as lordosis or is there a medical distinction?

<comment><USER46> My experience with yoga is that it is not enough for serious structural issues. For a strength-building workout, it is not systematic enough at most schools. It also usually fails to correct the day to day movement problems at the root of many problems.

I've done a lot of research into correcting my issues and it seems like this is what is happening with me. After reading Mary Bond's New Rules of Posture and Esther Gokhale's book, I realized that the way I do everything is pretty much wrong. I walk wrong, sit wrong, lie down wrong, and stand wrong (which is why a standing desk also didn't help). A great example is after implementing what I thought were really healthy changes to my lifestyle- the standing desk and walking to work, I developed an unpleasant heel pain and a rather ugly callus on my right side. After reading the Bond book I figured out that it was because that side is my dominant foot, but I was getting all my energy from walking from the heel strike there, rather than pushing off from the non- dominant foot through the hamstring/toes. Correcting that got rid of the pain and also had the side effect that my rear is more toned. That's just one example, and I'm not done with improving my posture, but it has made a great difference in my life. I also have implemented more systematic weight training (making sure I get ALL areas worked out) and core training (pilates). I still do yoga for the mobility benefits. I also have seen a Rolfing and Feldenkrais coach, but I think those services are generally over-rated and overpriced and you can get similar benefits from taking an adult dance class. I would like to try Alexander too.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> Amazing! I have been looking for this kind of exercise set for ages. Will try tomorrow.

Thank you anikepant!

</comment><comment><USER48> One problem I've had is uneven neck (and probably shoulder/back) muscle development, because I don't sit staring and facing straight at the monitor. This is a warning to those that are younger and haven't noticed this yet.

</comment><comment><USER49> The exercises in the book '7 steps to a pain free life' saved my ass:

[http://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Life-Rapidly- Relieve/d...](http://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Life-Rapidly- Relieve/dp/0452282772)

</comment><comment><USER50> For those with RSI problems, I used to get it very badly. I completely stopped it by changing my mouse hand every several weeks. It only takes a few minutes to get used to the new hand.

</comment><comment><USER51> I had RSI a few years ago. Apart from paying attention to posture (I took up tai chi to help with that), I changed to a dvorak keyboard layout which helped a lot.

</comment><comment><USER52> This is serious stuff. I'm dealing with really demoralizing lower back issues of my own, probably from years of crummy posture. Pay attention, kids.

</comment><comment><USER53> Some stuff I don't understand fully because I am not native English speaker. Can somebody recommend Youtube video instead?

<comment><USER54> [http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/11/5-simple- exerc...](http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/11/5-simple-exercises- for-correcting.html)

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> 40 years old here...

Although not everyone likes them I do recommend shelling $$$ for an Herman Miller (or similar) chair.

The Mira seems to be great for the back. Me, I can't live without the "pellicle mesh" of the Aeron so the Mira is a no go for me. Hence I bought an Aeron with the adjustable posture fit (the new one, with the adjustable stuff that gently "pushes" the low-end of your back).

I realize HN is filled with negativity and a lot of people are going to criticize the Aeron (dot com symbol, not that ergonomic, bad for your health, bla bla bla) but honestly if you know how to adjust it it's a great chair. You hardly sweat in it and (when adjusted correctly), by pulling your arms behind your head the chair gently falls in "relax-mode".

The 12-year warranty is great too. I use that and a HHKB Pro 2 as my keyboard.

<comment><USER56> I'd like to dis-recommend Herman Miller for ergonomics. I bought an Embody chair a few years ago and the adjustments suck. The Aeron is not much better. They are both comfortable chairs, but they don't really conform to your body the way the marketing literature wants to convince you that they do. (The major problem with the Embody is that the arm rests tilt when you lean back, meaning that they need to be readjusted if you lean back. And the adjustments are in like 6 inch steps, so the adjustment is never very good. The lumbar support is also garbage. The rest of the chair is very durable and comfortable, however.)

Ultimately, you pay a lot of money for Herman Miller products that could be spent on better ergonomic features instead.

At work I have a Teknion Contessa and I love it. It is infinitely adjustable and very comfortable. I hardly ever think about my chair while at work. The only problem is that the fabric is not very durable; mine is a year old and it looks just awful. My Embody is much older and looks almost brand new.

</comment></comment><comment><USER57> I have seriously been considering those stand-up workstation desks.

Some of these look kind of cool: [http://www.amazon.com/s/?_encoding=UTF8&tag=produc05-20&...](http://www.amazon.com/s/?_encoding=UTF8&tag=produc05-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&field- keywords=Standing%20desks&url=search-alias%3Daps)</comment>


Moving on from Highrise - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@natekontny/moving-on-from-highrise-94fb26df67e7 <comment><AUTHOR> And here's the DHH post: [https://m.signalvnoise.com/highrise-is-back-with- basecamp-c5...](https://m.signalvnoise.com/highrise-is-back-with- basecamp-c55fdcf28d9d)</comment>


Who do I trust and why? Digital Ocean, Google Chrome and Motion Sensors - <AUTHOR> I just logged into Digital Ocean to update some DNS records. I notice a new icon in the address bar that looks like it represents radar or radio waves with a red square and a white x in it. When  I click it I get "This site has been blocked from accessing your motion sensors".
Why would Digital Ocean be trying to access my motion sensors? According to this article it's to get more information about users.
https://gadgets.ndtv.com/internet/news/google-chrome-will-prevent-websites-from-using-your-devices-motion-sensors-to-track-you-2009386#:~:text=A%20new%20feature%20spotted%20in,gyroscopes%2C%20and%20ambient%20light%20sensors.
Of all the companies I deal with Digital Ocean never would have crossed my mind as one that I have to be concerned with regarding privacy issues. Veil lifted. <comment><USER2> My first guess would be that they were doing that as part of protecting their sign-in page against bots / automation, which is the kind of thing you need to do to protect against credential stuffers.

Look, you've just signed in with a long-term stable identifier. There is no need for them to track you with any kind of fingerprinting.

<comment><USER3> Which does make the fingerprint a lot more valuable if used in other contexts. This is why Google is so scary; they have biometric fingerprint data on everyone, account(s) or not, just through mouse/scroll patterns and cadence.

Ideally we need to find the JavaScript making the motion API request and try determining what it might be used for.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> What page were you on, exactly? I can't seem to reproduce the issue that you're seeing.

Could there be an extension that is causing this?

<comment><AUTHOR> It's on the main page as soon as I log in. I just disabled all of my Chrome extensions and I'm still seeing the warning. The warning says it's coming from [https://cloud.digitalocean.com](https://cloud.digitalocean.com).

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> [https://grantwinney.com/websites-requesting-access-to- motion...](https://grantwinney.com/websites-requesting-access-to-motion- sensors/)

Perhaps this link will help. It looks like websites can request if your browser has access to things like a Gyroscope or Magnetometer, and by default Chrome will block access without your consent.

It could be some sort of fingerprinting technique.

</comment><comment><USER6> Maybe they just want hear what you have to say? [https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurit...](https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurity14/sec14-paper- michalevsky.pdf)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> On the warning popup there's a button to 'Manage'. I clicked that and selected do not allow sites to use motion sensors and the warning is now gone.

</comment><comment><USER7> DO uses a third party for invasive "antifraud" that does this at login/register/pay/etc points.

</comment><comment><USER8> CNN's website always tries to start up SteamVR for whatever reason.

<comment><USER9> CNN Lite: [https://lite.cnn.com/en](https://lite.cnn.com/en)

You're welcome.</comment></comment>


Creator of Bitcoin digital cash reveals identity - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36168863 <comment><USER2> We merged (most of) this thread into [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11609611](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11609611), which was the first submission of the story and (now) points to what looks like the most substantive news article posted so far.

</comment><comment><USER3> The fact that Craig didn't go to a media outlet/reporter with any real computer expertise like Ars etc. makes me suspicious (GQ? REALLY?).

He says he doesn't want publicity (GQ?? REALLY?!).

When he was first explored as a potential Satoshi awhile back, when a "hacker" supposedly broke into his computer and leaked emails linking him to Bitcoin, there was reason to believe that it wasn't true.

There is also a tax case and a legal case around this.

More from a few months ago here: [http://gizmodo.com/this-australian-says-he- and-his-dead-frie...](http://gizmodo.com/this-australian-says-he-and-his-dead- friend-invented-bi-1746958692)

Okay so evidence is mounting that it's true, but I always had a theory about who Satoshi was and why he went silent (he passed away a few years ago).

</comment><comment><USER4> Skip the short BBC article – The Economist has a full profile here: [http://www.economist.com/news/briefings/21698061-craig- steve...](http://www.economist.com/news/briefings/21698061-craig-steven- wright-claims-be-satoshi-nakamoto-bitcoin)

EDIT: Mods merged the thread with [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11609611](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11609611), which is the Economist story. I can't seem to delete this comment, for some reason.

<comment><USER5> and Gavin Andresen confirms [http://gavinandresen.ninja/satoshi](http://gavinandresen.ninja/satoshi)

<comment><USER6> Yes. Gavin assisted Economist's write up:

"Still, as far as we can tell he indeed seems to be in possession of the keys, at least for block 9. This assessment is shared by two bitcoin insiders who have sat through the same demonstration: Jon Matonis, a bitcoin consultant and former director of the Bitcoin Foundation, and Gavin Andresen, Mr Nakamoto's successor as the lead developer of the cryptocurrency's software (he has since passed on the baton, but is still contributing to the code)." [1]

[1] - [http://www.economist.com/news/briefings/21698061-craig- steve...](http://www.economist.com/news/briefings/21698061-craig-steven- wright-claims-be-satoshi-nakamoto-bitcoin)

<comment><USER7> > Still, as far as we can tell he indeed seems to be in possession of the > keys, at least for block 9.

That's some crappy wording. We are going all these lengths (crypto and stuff) to then be uncertain: "seems". "at least".

Concrete proof is required.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I think the media got duped on this. Again.

</comment><comment><USER6> Check out Economist's write up. Lots of detail. Not just the 5 minute video.

[http://www.economist.com/news/briefings/21698061-craig- steve...](http://www.economist.com/news/briefings/21698061-craig-steven- wright-claims-be-satoshi-nakamoto-bitcoin)

HN sub: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11609708](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11609708)

<comment><USER9> Lots of text. Where's the signature?

<comment><USER10> IFdyaWdodCwgaXQgaXMgbm90IHRoZSBzYW1lIGFzIGlmIEkgc2lnbiBDcmFpZyBXcmlnaHQsIFNhdG9zaGkuCgo=

<comment><USER9> > > 'IFdyaWdodCwgaXQgaXMgbm90IHRoZSBzYW1lIGFzIGlmIEkgc2lnbiBDcmFpZyBXcmlnaHQsIFNhdG9zaGkuCgo='.decode('base64')

> ' Wright, it is not the same as if I sign Craig Wright, Satoshi.\n\n'

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> tl;dr - it _is_ Craig Wright.

<comment><USER12> This is a good TLDR, why is this downvoted?

<comment><USER13> because it might not be

<comment><USER14> "tl;dr" doesn't mean truth, it means it's a succinct summary of what the article claims.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Dupe of [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11609629](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11609629)

<comment><USER16> Actually this was submitted 2 minutes earlier but the other took the lead in upvotes.</comment></comment>


Plastic bag sales in England halved in past year - <AUTHOR> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49185007 <comment><USER4> I'm as much against (single use) plastics as the next guy but what's the alternative here?

Studies have shown multiple times [1], [2] that cotton bags require far more energy and water to produce than almost everything else and need to be reused circa 7.100 times for non organic and twenty-thousand times for organic cotton until they surpass plastic bags.

I have some cotton bags and they are all produced as cheap as possible and I'm doubting wether they even can be used thousands of times before they disintegrate or some seams come apart.

In fact LDPE bags have the lowest environmental impact of them all. Unbleached paper and bipolymer bags come close after that.

The recommendation for end of life is always to reuse them as waste/trash bags by the way, recycling plastic bags has a larger environmental impact. So best to use LDPE bags a few times and then reuse as waste bag seems to be the best option.

[1] - [https://www2.mst.dk/Udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-...](https://www2.mst.dk/Udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-73-4.pdf)

[2] - [https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/life-cycle- assess...](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/life-cycle-assessment- of-supermarket-carrierbags-a-review-of-the-bags-available-in-2006)

<comment><USER5> Perhaps an alternative is the "old way".

bring your own bottle to be filled with milk / wine / oil.

Buy meat from the butcher wrapped in paper.

Buy bread from a baker wrapped in paper.

I remember that all happening as a child

But that was expensive time consuming and frequently unhygienic

<comment><USER6> Your meat from the butcher isn't wrapped in paper?

<comment><USER7> My local grocery store butcher tends to put meat in a plastic bag, then wrap that in paper.

<comment><USER8> Same - else meat juices will slowly soak the paper and leak out. My fishmonger does the same.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> The large cloth bags you buy from the grocery store in Ontario are just the best things ever. They're a dollar each but they last years and years, hold far greater volume and weight, and are useful for all kinds of other tasks. I bought ten to help me transport bric a brac when I moved.

It's one of those things where environmentalism doesn't even have to factor in once you realise how awful the previous technology was.

<comment><USER10> They did a comparison to cloth bags here. you have to use a colored clothbag about 30.000 times before you break even with a plastic bag. a non colored cloth bag was about 23.000 uses. Plastic bags are super efficient with regards to resource consumption, but you must never leave them in nature. There is also very little to gain from recycling plastic bags, so you would ideally burn them somewhere close to usage, and use the heat for heating.

<comment><USER11> > _They did a comparison to cloth bags here. you have to use a colored > clothbag about 30.000 times before you break even with a plastic bag._

That study ([https://www2.mst.dk/Udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-...](https://www2.mst.dk/Udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-73-4.pdf)) compared the resource consumption of:

1\. A plastic bag then reused as a trash bag before discarded.

2\. A reused cotton bag where you then also buy separate plastic bags for the trash can.

<comment><USER12> Sounds fair, as I am required to bag my garbage.

<comment><USER13> As someone else pointed out, the problem with plastic bags wasn't resource usage but littering. This study is irrelevant.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Good !

Now we need to figure out how to stop packaging everything in dozens of layers of plastic !

I was amazed when I ordered deodorant from a company that tries to avoid plastic waste and I received it in an envelope made of several layers of paper (whereas most companies would have just used bubble wrap)

<comment><USER15> I guess this is very important and also often overlooked whenever public policy makers talk about Plastic Ban. Where I live (India), It's only the Plastic Carry Bags are always targeted but what's forgotten is that almost everything that we buy - from Biscuit Packages to Shampoo Bottles - <USER2> is just Plastic at different levels.

<comment><USER16> I believe that the ban on bags isn't about plastic but rather bags themselves. They are easily carried away by wind, get stuck on trees, suffocate animals, etc.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> The bigger cause for the more recent (accelerated) drop is IMO not the 5p fee, but the fact that many shops simply stopped offering the thin "single-use" plastic bags altogether!

Still my praise goes to Whole Foods, the only shop (that I know) that offers _paper_ bags.

<comment><USER18> > Still my praise goes to Whole Foods, the only shop (that I know) that offers > paper bags.

It is far from clear that paper bags are any better in their overall impact.

<comment><USER19> One thing that _is_ very obvious is that they biodegrade. Even if they're equally bad for the environment in the short term they're not a problem that will take 1000 years to go away.

<comment><USER10> Paper bags are roughly 250 times worse than a plastic bag. Even worse if you color it.

<comment><USER19> I'd ask you to cite something that demonstrates evidence for that claim but you'll just post a link to a website funded by the plastics industry.

For example - "Paper bags have a much higher global warming potential (GWP)." ([http://www.allaboutbags.ca/papervplastic.html](http://www.allaboutbags.ca/papervplastic.html)) but when you scroll to the bottom of the page you see "Content compiled by the Canadian Plastics Industry Association.".

Paper bags are not 250 times worse.

<comment><USER10> I was wrong, it was 43 times.

[https://www2.mst.dk/Udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-...](https://www2.mst.dk/Udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-73-4.pdf#page92) page 93

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Overall, has there been a noticeable change at the landfill level? Also have there been reductions in plastic bags making their way to waterways, streams, seas, etc?

I ask this because the inevitable comments arise regarding people now having to buy rubbish/bin bags instead of reusing shopping bags. So, what is the net effect of this change on the environment?

<comment><USER21> I am in favour of banning all single use plastic (and quite a lot of non single use as well).

But I now do have to buy some bin bags... What do people do to avoid this?

<comment><USER22> I actually used to reuse single use bags to line all of the trash cans in my house. Now that my town banned free ones, my family has been trained to reuse. Only now I'm buying disposable trash bags and only using them once.

Fairly sure the overall impact here is worse. Especially since the heavy trash bags you buy consume much, much more plastic compared to the thin film freebies I was using before.

I do hate to see trash bags blowing in the road and know they end up in the rivers and oceans. I guess overall this is still a win, just not for my household.

<comment><USER23> I guess trash bags can/could be produced with biodegradation in mind, while shopping bags may prioritize being able to stay in stock for years and to hold dyes, etc. It's not necessarily a 1:1 replacement.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> It is heartening to see the results. I have this one year old article [0] and an info-graphic which shows what other countries are doing [1]. As usual, the trouble seems to be in implementation. Speaking from experience here in Bangalore, plastic bags have decreased in availability but not disappeared :-(

One highlight: Ireland introduced a tax on plastic bags in 2001(!) and usage dropped 90%.

[0] [https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and- natio...](https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and- nation/bengaluru-still-not-a-plastic-free-city/articleshow/64410546.cms)

[1] [https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/img/64410700/Master.jpg](https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/img/64410700/Master.jpg)

<comment><USER25> While Ireland has certainly lead the way in the plastic bag tax we're still doing poorly when it comes to waste management. There's still a culture that accepts fly tipping in picturesque areas of the countryside, litter is still a problem and public bins always seem to be full to bursting point and never emptied.

<comment><USER24> > accepts fly tipping... I had to Google the term :-) . For the rest of the > people reading this: Fly tipping = illegally dump waste.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> I live in England. My local supermarket no longer has the flimsy plastic bags at all, only the sturdy plastic "bag-for-life" (they'll replace it for free) kind.

The flimsy bags were all re-used as kitchen bin liners. The sturdy bags can't be used for that.

So I'm now having to buy single use plastic bin liners.

<comment><USER27> You might have been doing that, as was I, but a lot of people were not - <USER3> their flimsy bags were ending up as litter. This is what this policy is designed to prevent.

<comment><USER28> >a lot of people were not

So what were they doing? Not lining their garbage bins? I find that unlikely. They were most likely buying plastic liners (ie. bags). In that case, the smart thing to do is to get them to switch to reusing their plastic bags, not making it harder for people who already reuse plastic bags to get bags.

>and their flimsy bags were ending up as litter

I'm not convinced that any meaningful amount of plastic bags end up as litter. They're used to transport something, typically to someone's home, where there's easy access to a garbage bin.

<comment><USER27> They were already buying bin liners to use at home. When bags were seen as disposable they were often put in public litter bins (where they do not always stay, in busy areas with full bins) or simply discarded in the open environment. Anecdotally there seems to be much less of this going on now and the relatively common sight of Tesco carrier bags (other supermarkets are also available, but these seemed to be the worst offender) blowing down the street or caught in trees seems to have largely disappeared from what I have seen since this policy was introduced. There is still litter of course, but the most noticeable litter is now food wrappers rather than plastic bags.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Other comments have addressed the questionable environmental benefits of plastic bags over multi-use bags. However in terms of ocean pollution this is totally missing the mark. This is an unpleasant thing to discuss, but perhaps times are pressing.

Developed countries, including the UK, have modern waste management meaning that close to 0% of its waste plastic ends up in the oceans. The only contributing factor is beach litter. Plastic in the oceans comes from poorer countries in SE asia where the waste management systems are inadequate and open air dumpster sites are the norm. [0] In fact, "90% of plastic polluting our oceans comes from just 10 rivers" [1]

Our efforts should be directed there, financially and politically. It's not an easy problem since being harsh on poor counties and meddling in their internal affairs doesn't look good, but imo we have no choice.

An important contributing factor is that the West sends some of its plastic to be recycled by some of these countries which in turn simply dump some of it instead and it finds its way to the oceans. We can no longer turn a blind eye to that. As part of the effort, we must ensure that either these counties actually do the recycling (perhaps with our aid), or we don't continue to buy their recycling services.

[0] [https://ourworldindata.org/plastic- pollution](https://ourworldindata.org/plastic-pollution) [1] [https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic- polluti...](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluting- our-oceans-comes-from-just-10-rivers)

<comment><USER30> Our plastic bags may not have ended up in the ocean. But they were turning up in canals, trees, parks, etc.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> Who's working on a bunch of low climate impact stores? I'd love to buy things indexed for climate impact and waste, but I don't think I've ever seen any options like that.

Side effects like 'no bubble pack' and most things being made down the road would be amazing advantages I would think.

<comment><USER4> As I've just mentioned in another comment, we have a special store that sells groceries without packaging, bring your own container and fill it.

Also some supermarkets in Germany work on removing packaging from fruits and vegetables where it's not needed, which is nice to see.

Coconuts, water melons, ginger and such get brandings with a laser.

German supermarket giant EDEKA seems to be the leader so far, they have pilot projects where customers can bring reusable containers for products. [1]

[1] - [https://technology.risiinfo.com/packaging- technology-137](https://technology.risiinfo.com/packaging-technology-137)

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> The Coop supermarket is replacing single use plastic bags with compostable ones. This seems the best plan to me.

source: [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45612315](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45612315)

</comment><comment><USER33> This headline is misleading because it refers to single use plastic bags. In London none of the shops I go to even sell these bags. However, they do sell multiuse bags which I mostly use similar to how I would use a single use bag.

</comment><comment><USER34> Related:

The butcher's shop down the street here allows to bring own boxes to avoid wrappings and the bakery puts bread and rolls into cloth bags if you provide them. (Too bad that I have no image of our fancy _Baguette bag_ )

There are even normal supermarkets (not discounters) in Germany now that offer to sell fresh meat and cheese products into customer provided boxes to avoid wrapping and garbage. It works by bringing your own clean and sealable containers and put them on a tray; the person at the counter only handles the tray and puts things directly into the boxes, and adds a label with the contents and price for the cashier.

Works well, imo.

<comment><USER35> Won't even remotely work in the U.S. where it just adds more liability to the stores. All it takes is for a customer to bring a contaminated container and go "The meat you sold me made me sick! I am suing you".

<comment><USER34> I believe that. Lawsuits, healthcare and guns are most likely the biggest reasons that make Europeans frown when hearing about the US ;)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> Such a great news to read in the morning. It's good to hear this is happening in the UK.

I personally use a couple of bigger foldable plastic boxes and some cotton bags for good measure.

The boxes can carry up to 25kg each, easily fit in a car, and I always have one of them, with some cotton bags, in the car. I had these boxes for 3 years or so. Haven't used plastic bags in years!

</comment><comment><USER37> For me also the change to "smart shop", i.e. you scan and bag your groceries as you walk around, had meant the end of plastic bags for me. I now have to think for a second how many bags I need beforehand, not just grab them on checkout.

These days I always have a few reusable bags in the boot of my car that I grab on my way into the shop. The big sturdy rectangular ones that fit snuggly in a trolley and then straight into the boot of the car. And a more insulated bag for cold items. On top of a foldable one in my work bag for small items on the way home if I commuted by train.

I hated the old flimsy but free bags they had in the UK, I did not trust them enough to reuse. They quickly ripped, could not contain anything runny/liquid, etc. I am glad they disappeared, both for environmental and personal reasons.

</comment><comment><USER38> I was surprised by "Shops are _expected_ [my emphasis] to donate the money to charitable causes - and the charge is estimated to have raised £169 million since 2015." so I went looking and it looks like the only thing keeping them from just pocketing the money is a £20,000 fine.[0][1]

[0][https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-42638548](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk- england-42638548)

[1][https://www.gov.uk/guidance/carrier-bag-charges-retailers- re...](https://www.gov.uk/guidance/carrier-bag-charges-retailers- responsibilities#how-much-you-can-be-fined)

</comment><comment><USER39> Turkey recently went the same way (plastic bags are charged ₺0,25 — ~5¢; ₺0,15 — ~3¢ is tax). Plastic bag use dropped by 75%.

</comment><comment><USER40> One of the product idea I had, but no skills or real desire to implement it was - a key chain which holds 1-3 cloth bags. Biggest behavioral change people have to do when moving to reusable bags is - remembering to carry. Most people carry their keys. You can use build a key chain which stores 1-3 bags for such times.

</comment><comment><USER41> I'm sure more people are reusing bags than before, I am not the best at it, but have about a 50 percent success rate at remembering to bring one, or just don't use a bag.

</comment><comment><USER42> I'd like to see paper bags available too. If I forget a cotton bag, rather than buy another bag, the option to purchase a paper bag feels more ecologically friendly? Am I right?

</comment><comment><USER43> In one of the states in India, they banned plastic. But in a few months, the ban is in-effective. I really think to charge a small price for buying plastics is a better way than to ban

</comment><comment><USER44> As a Danish government study citing a "7,100 times" greater environmental impact of cotton over single-use plastic bags is being cited or referenced (often indirectly) here, I thought I'd take a glance at its assumptions. They prove ... interesting.[1]

TL:DR; Cotton, particularly organic, is most heavily penalised for water consumption, though net carbon emissions consider. The study entirely ignores litter and acquatic impacts, and limits consideration to 100 year impacts on Denmark specifically. It is a fascinating case of very carefully delineated boundaries of consideration at odds with an inclusive long-term environmental assessment, and is absolutely not reflected in popular articles linked. You can paint a very good picture of a thing if you hide its worst features.

I'm commenting as I read through the report, conclusions emerge as I do so (most are in a reply to this comment).

"The effects of littering were considered negligible for Denmark and not considered."

That is, one of the biggest concerns of plastics. and the environment -- long- term residency if tossed, especially in waterways or the ocean, _simply isn 't addressed._

"The environmental assessment of each carrier bag was carried out taking into consideration different end-of-life options: incineration (EOL1), recycling (EOL2), and reuse as waste bin bag (EOL3) before being incinerated."

That is, landfill disposal or composting are not considered. Cotton bags can be composted, if slowly.

"The environmental assessment was carried out for a range of recommended environmental impacts (European Commission, 2010): climate change, ozone depletion, human toxicity cancer and non-cancer effects, photochemical ozone formation, ionizing radiation, particulate matter, terrestrial acidification, terrestrial eutrophication, marine eutrophication, freshwater eutrophication, ecosystem toxicity, resource depletion, fossil and abiotic, and depletion of water resource."

A long list, but again notably lacking long-term environmental residence and impacts of items bypassing disposal processing.

Looking at specific measures and bag types:

 _Organic cotton bags:_

"Reuse for grocery shopping at least 149 times for climate change"

This is well below the 7,000 headline number, and corresponds to three years of weekly shopping trips, fewer if used multiple times weekly.

"at least 20,000 times considering all indicators; reuse as waste bin bag if possible, otherwise incinerate."

Interesting, though I'm dying to find out what the least favourable indicators are, and how those might possibly be mitigated.

 _Conventional cotton bags:_

Interesting to see how the _less_ "eco-friendly" option fares...

"Reuse for grocery shopping at least 52 times for climate change"

That's one year of weekly use, a few months if more frequent.

"at least 7100 times considering all indicators"

And that's our headline number. Where does it come from?

A footnote on the next page provides a clue:

 _The highest number is due to the use of water resource, but also to freshwater and terrestrial eutrophication._

I'm aware from previous research that cotton is famously water-hungry. A chief reason it's grown in river deltas (Nile, Mississippi).

Choice of methodology is of interest:

"The LCA carried out for this study was conducted according to the requirements outlined in the International Standards 14040 and 14044 (ISO, 2006a, 2006b). The present Section provides a detailed description of the LCA methodology utilized for the study: the goal of the LCA, functional unit and reference flow, the system boundaries, the choices for the modelling approach for addressing multi-functionality, the modelling tools, data requirements, impact assessment method, assumptions and limitations."

I'm not familiar with these or alternatives, but at the very least the methodology isn't fully home-grown. Though it may have been carefully selected.

"we defined a functional unit that allowed a fair basis for comparison for the grocery carrier bags"

That is, comparison is standardised to weight and volume capacity.

"Carrying ... an average volume of 22 litres and with an average weight of 12 kilograms.... After use, the carrier bag is collected by the Danish waste management system."

Knowing that several multi-use alternatives are capable of both greater volume and mass, by factors of 2-4, I'd be interested to see if this is addressed and how. I'll note that toting 50kg of groceries may not be for the faint (or weak) of heart, though there is assistive technology.[2]

From subsequent discussion, the reference unit is a _minimum capacity_ , not a _scaled reference_. That is, some options (e.g., LDPE simple) are scaled _up_ to meet this. capacity, others (Jute, cotton, composite) with greater capacity are _not_ scaled down.[3]

"The time horizon of the impacts in this LCA was 100 years."

This raises all kinds of issues, from environmental residency (already excluded by presuming perfect wastestream recovery) to future value. discounting / present value analysis. Suffice to say there are a vast number of bodies buried, literally, in that innocuous sentence.

"Secondary reuse ... was assumed as substituting a waste bin bag."

So all y'all reuse-it-as-a-trash-bag peeps, you're covered. And yes, plastic beats organic here.

Impact categories are listed in table 5, p. 39. As previusly, omissions are highly notable.

The assumptions section,3.10, pp. 41ff, deserves close reading. Highlights only:

"we did not take into consideration customers' behavioural patterns"

That is, this is a highly idealised study. Useful as an engineering reference, perhaps, but not a full description of the real world. All models are false, yes. I've serious doubts this one is even useful, particularly as cited in practice.[4]

"For biopolymer and textile bags, recycling was not considered."

"Recycling of textiles was not taken into account since it mainly occurs outside the Danish waste management system."

I'll simply note that the environment does not care about this distiction.

On production impacts: "it was not possible to retrieve 'market' processes from Ecoinvert for all the carrier bags materials assessed"

That is: while cotton production is extremely well understood and ducumented, chemical synthesis is not. Ignorance is not innocence.

"For organic cotton, we modified the Ecoinvent dataset for conventional cotton production by subtracting environmental impacts connected to fertilizers and by lowering the production yield by 30%."

Any intrinsic high-volume inputs to cotton will have a far greater impact on organic production. Stay tuned.

"We could not find literature data on the production and manufacturing of the waste bin bag."

Though addressed, an interesting and notable comment re: waste-bagging substitution.

Tables 10-12 specifically list impact weights, and yes, water consumption is the most variable factor, from _negative_ water consumption for LDPE (presumably H2O emissions from incineration) to 70 l/unit consumption for organic cotton. Net carbon emissions also penalise cotton.

"The environmental impacts connected to the production of the organic cotton bag (COTorg) were considerably higher than those of the conventional cotton bag (COT). This is due to the fact that organic cotton production does not involve the use of synthetic chemicals such as and pesticides, which lowers the yield of the cultivation."

That is: yield impacts are considered, but not environmental and soil impacts of fertiliser and pesticide use.

Carbon emissions don't seem to be clearly attributed. I'm not sure what to make of this.

Table 23 provides a colour-coded overview of impacts, though it omits the handy acronyms and abbreviations translator you'll need -- that's on p. 21.

Further discussion in follow-up reply.

________________________________

Notes:

1\. Source: Ministry of Environment and Food for Denmark, "Life Cycle Assessment of grocery carrier bags" (2018) [https://www2.mst.dk/udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-...](https://www2.mst.dk/udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-73-4.pdf) (PDF). Mind the TLS cert errors.

2\. The venerable wheeled folding shopping trolley, e.g., [https://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/1/1/56758-super-deluxe- swiv...](https://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/1/1/56758-super-deluxe-swiveler- folding-multi-use-cart.html)

3\. "Life Cycle", Table 3. Required reference flow for each carrier bag

4\. See, e.g., Will Dunn, "How Britain fell in love with the tote bag – and why it's a dangerous fiction", cited elsewhere in this thread, by which I found the Danish report. [https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/environment/2019/07/ho...](https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/environment/2019/07/how- britain-fell-love-tote-bag-and-why-it-s-dangerous-fiction)

<comment><USER45> >"The effects of littering were considered negligible for Denmark and not considered."

>That is, one of the biggest concerns of plastics. and the environment -- long-term residency if tossed, especially in waterways or the ocean, simply isn't addressed

Maybe the problem here is that the "biggest concern" is not necessarily a concern worth having. In other words, regardless of what currently animates environmentalists, the actual effects of plastic bag littering in Denmark are in fact negligible, as they say.

Where I am, the latest craze is to worry about plastic straws. To listen to people you would think the sea was thick with the things. I feel like the crowd latches onto silly things to care about, perhaps as a distraction from tackling the serious things. It's been amazing to see how fast the concern with plastic has metastasized in the culture.

<comment><USER44> Eliminating the concern from study scope is hardly the way to prove that point.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> Too bad like 90% of plastic in the ocean from land based sources comes from the Yangtze, Indus, Yellow River, Hai River, Nile, Ganges, Pearl River, Amur, Niger, and the Mekong.

So this basically does nothing at all to address the issues we are after.

<comment><USER47> I see a lot this weird reaction, some action is taken so the number of single use plastic is reduced in your country and area so your local rivers and beaches are 90% more clean but people like you can't see this good local thing because somewhere else this measures were not appalled yet.

I assume you are the type that won't clean his house / room if is full of shit unless someone else also cleans it first.

<comment><USER46> I'm just not even sure if this is good at the end of the day.

If it takes less energy to create and use plastic and then properly store it in a landfill then that is what we should do.

I feel like we get confused about the source of plastic in the oceans and think that we can help clean it up by switching away from plastic, when the actual problem is improper disposal of plastic by the 3rd world.

So is it good that we are reducing single use plastic in our country where we dispose of plastic properly? Because instead we just use a different material that has a greater contribution to global warming than the plastic did.

<comment><USER47> Not sure in what country you are what I read on the internet most Western countries have issues with plastic bags floating int he air , bottles in rivers,side of the roads and forests where tourists hang out.

I agree that collecting all plastic garbage and putting it in a big land fill is a good solution but encouraging people not to abuse the cheap or free plastic bugs systems in malls and shops is also a good solution.

About poor countries I think you need to understand that there is no running water, public garbage collection and other western facilities there, accusing and not offering some real solution is just disingenuous,

<comment><USER46> > Not sure in what country you are what I read on the internet most Western > countries have issues with plastic bags floating int he air , bottles in > rivers,side of the roads and forests where tourists hang out.

That is really not what the US looks like. There is not plastic trash everywhere. There is practically a public trash can on every corner here.

All I am saying is I'm not sure the ideas in this article are a solution.

Maybe this policy would be helpful in the countries that are actually the source of the plastic that is destroying the oceans though.

<comment><USER48> In the UK, it used to be the norm to see a plastic bag tree, all aflutter with collected trash and generally foul. Since the free bag ban, those have disappeared.

You may be young and/or wealthy if you don't remember trash everywhere.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Jeff Vogel Indie Game Developer releases new RPG (Mac Only For the Moment) - <AUTHOR> http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2009/11/i-released-new-rpg-for-mac.html

<comment><USER2> Jeff has been making great games for years. The games in the Avernum series all play pretty much the same way, but each one has a huge world, a deep branching plot, and some kind of new twist in the combat system.

I still haven't beaten Avernum 5 and I've had it since last December. It's not too hard, I just keep running out of extra time. It's just such a big game!

<comment><USER3> The Exile series was a staple of my youth. Great stuff.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> You know, there are people out there who do PR for money. And you make it back in the increased sales. Not that I want to suggest ruining your indie cred . . .

Though, frankly, this is adorable and may be good PR just on its own.

</comment><comment><USER5> This was weird: I read his post, and figured "doesn't apply to me, I'm not a mac guy". And then I realized I've been working on a MacBook for two months. Eh?</comment>


Distributed SQLite for Go applications - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/dqlite <comment><USER2> It's fascinating how Raft has democratized distributed computing -- writing a consistent, distributed state machine now can be done in a few lines of code, assuming you have a Raft implementation lying around, like Hashicorp's excellent Go library.

What this project (and similar projects such as Rqlite) doesn't address is the hard problem -- sharding. Raft makes it quite trivial to write a master/slave system where every node is guaranteed to be identical, but it won't scale writes and won't distribute storage across your cluster.

You can build sharding on top of Raft, but in an SQL setting this would require distributed transactions, something that's difficult enough that relatively few projects have tackled it so far, the notable ones being CockroachDB and TiDB. (Google Spanner, being proprietary, is not relevant in this context.)

<comment><USER3> An excellent interactive explanation of Raft can be found here: [http://thesecretlivesofdata.com/raft/](http://thesecretlivesofdata.com/raft/). It would be interesting as hell to build a small implementation in the language of choice (elixir?, pony?).

<comment><USER4> That was good to see. Thank you.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Damn it, I was going to work on exactly this -- my goals were slightly different but basically the same paxos/raft/gossip + sqlite and see how far I could take it.

Note for those who are interested in cool-stuff-with-SQLite, there's a similar project called RQLite (mentioned in the README):

[https://github.com/rqlite/rqlite](https://github.com/rqlite/rqlite)

The main differences are laid out in the README, but IMO it really all boils down to the fact that since it's single-writer quorum'd there's only one node actually doing writes, and they've just chosen to replicate right-before (right after?) the WAL commit (I think this is what they're calling frames, basically one chunk of the WAL content), not at the point of receiving a query. This is more like having a read secondary more than anything (I also assume writes are redirected to master).

It says in the readme that it should be expected to be slower than RQlite, I'd love to see some numbers.

I do really like this though -- can't wait to pour through the code and see if there's anything I can learn.

<comment> free-ekanayaka Hello, author of dqlite here.

Things are still in flux, but yes, I plan to publish benchmarks before making a 1.0 release, as well as improving documentations and introduce some more abstractions to make it easier to use.

The reason it might be slower is some cases is that RQlite replicates statements and dqlite replicates WAL frames (where "frames" roughly means "disk pages"), which are typically bigger.

I didn't run benchmarks against RQlite yet, but I'd expect performance differences to be negligible for most use cases.

<comment><USER5> Hey thanks for putting this out there, it's a pretty cool project.

I see what you meant by it being slower, but that's only replication speed right? maybe that should be pointed out in the documentation when you find time to update it.

Does it seem like the replication patch is going to land in Sqlite? I sure would like it to...

<comment> free-ekanayaka "slower" means this:

when you perform a SQLite write, SQLite writes a new page on disk to the its write-ahead log. dqlite needs to replicate that page write across all nodes. A page is typically 4kb, so when you do a write on the leader node you need to transfer 4kb across the wire to all other follower nodes and wait for a quorum of them to come back and say "I got it" (which includes writing the page to disk). On the contrary rqlite just needs to transfer and store the SQL text, which is typically less than 4kb.

In practice it's still pretty performant, but I'll publish benchmarks later on.

I plan to submit the patch to SQLite upstream too, yes.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> sqlite is fantastic piece of software. I am using it in every single side projects of mine. I can not describe how I satisfied with results even in relatively high load (300K pages/day on $5 Linode VPS). I found that most of time using a full featured RDBMS is not necessary depending on use case.(I am doing mostly reads)

<comment><USER7> > 300K pages/day

Does that qualify as "high load"? That's just below 4 pages/second. Given how beefy server CPUs and SSDs are, I would consider something like 100+ requests/second "high load".

<comment><USER6> You are right. That is why I said "relatively". It is relatively high for my setup.($5 linode with 2gb ram that runs 4 instance gunicorn server.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I wonder how this kind of project can be tested in order to ensure the correctness of the use cases and error cases.

does anyone know a resource to learn more about testing in this kind of situation? I hope there is an alternative to just try all cases in different real hardware setups (which is the mantra at my company)

<comment><USER9> One very good resource are the writings of Aphyr where he tests various distributed databases: [https://aphyr.com/tags/jepsen](https://aphyr.com/tags/jepsen) . Jepsen is the framework he wrote to test them. Next would be formal verification but you get very far by understanding the distributed db semantics and applying practical tests.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> After looking through the repo, I'm still not sure exactly _why_ you would want / need this. What exactly is the use-case here?

<comment> free-ekanayaka If your application is:

1) Distributed (e.g. n equal processes running on n machines) 2) Needs some shared state across nodes 3) Would like that state to have SQL semantics (relations, transactions, etc.) 4) Not to heavy on writes to this shared state (I might provide some ballpark numbers at some point) 5) Wants to avoid the operational overhead of an external storage system (mysql, postgresql) 6) Wants to be fault-tolerant and have transparent failovers

then dqlite might be a good choice.

<comment><USER10> Interesting. Thank you for the explanation!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Projects like this(sparsely documented, tiny) always seem to be just internal tools that the company just threw out into the world just because they can. Not that I'm ungrateful, but without any sort of explanation as to why I'd use this over a clustered MySQL or Postgres it's a little hard to make heads or tails about whether I should care.

<comment><USER12> It's work someone else did and shared with you for free. It strikes me as lazy to complain about how you don't know what to do with it and want everything spoon-fed to you. It's go+sqlite+raft. That means it's an embedded database for Go that can be used across a cluster of Go processes while maintaining ACID goodness. I got that out of it in 2 minutes of looking at the readme, I think you could manage the same if you take the time it took you here to make a new account and comment.

<comment><USER11> I don't ever remember complaining, just saying I have no idea what it's even useful for. This is usually where a good, comprehensive, thoughtful readme helps people figure out why they should care about a project over others that do the same thing and what sets it apart. But I guess expecting explanations for libraries is spoonfeeding. Oh well!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> How does it compare to RocksDB?

edit: I'm sorry, I was thinking of BedrockDB.

<comment> free-ekanayaka BedrockDB requires to operate a separate process, whereas you can embed dqlite in your Go application (pretty much in the SQLite philosophy). Also, afaik BedrockDB patches upstream SQLite with some more intrusive changes than dqlite (e.g. for supporting concurrent writes). The SQLite patch that dqlite requires is pretty minimal and just adds hooks to internal WAL events.

<comment><USER14> so the use case is: you're building a distributed Go application that needs some shared state in the form of an SQL db?

<comment> free-ekanayaka Yes, dqlite is currently used for clustering support in LXD 3.0: [https://github.com/lxc/lxd](https://github.com/lxc/lxd)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Reminds me of the last Stripe CTF. I miss those.</comment>


Expose New Linq Operations from the Screaming HashSet Collection - <AUTHOR> http://blog.domaindotnet.com/2008/09/08/the_fastest_dot_net_hash_set_collection_with_linq_extended_features/ This post will show how to gain additional power that is fully supported from Microsoft which is often overlooked, yet it can solve some of the hardest problems (especially around performance however don't prematurely optimize!).<p>Linq is not just about databases. It's about reading the registry, your hard-disk, or even a list of function pointers to be invoked. Linq is about more event then sets (collections). It's about making tasks easier in many cases and vastly more powerful (and most importantly your code more readable and maintainable at the same time). <comment><AUTHOR> One line of code, no loss in near native OS level performance. Linq rules if you know the knobs to turn.</comment>


[Ruby] Type annotations - <AUTHOR> https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/9999

<comment><USER2> Type annotations are great but how exactly do they fit in? For example, in TypeScript the type annotations actually provide live feedback as you're typing the code. The TypeScript compiler, tsc, will also flag instances where the types don't make sense or it can't infer the type for a function argument which is valuable for the programmer because it means there is some kind of gap in how the data flows from one function to the next. If the type annotations are just going to be for documentation purposes then there is almost no value in making it available. If on the other hand they will be more closely tied with the interpreter during source-to-bytecode compile time to provide feedback then that will be much more valuable but that's actually a lot of work.

It's probably also helpful to look at Typed Racket for how they address the type annotation problem.

<comment><AUTHOR> yep, errors will we raised at runtime, so I think it's not possible out of the box to save and get an error.

However, most of our tests cover type checks and the documentation as well, so 2 less problem to handle.

Then someone could come up with a "tool" that will extend your ide to detect errors "live".

That's should be "just" the first step.</comment></comment>


AWS Achieves PCI DSS Level 1 Compliance - <AUTHOR> http://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2010/12/07/aws-achieves-pci-dss-level-1-compliance/ <comment><USER2> Maybe someone with more knowledge of this can help me; does this mean that one simply has to use https with EC2 and store everything on AWS to be fully PCI compliant?

If so, AWS just became even more attractive.

<comment><USER3> It does not. It just means that using EC2 nodes in your credit card handling system is not necessarily an automatic fail.</comment></comment>


Just Eat's Business Model (2014) - <AUTHOR> http://www.managementtoday.co.uk/opinion/1291205/just-eat-id-rather-not-says-luke-johnson/ <comment><USER2> I think Just Eat are going to have trouble competing with Deliveroo, who are in a position to offer a far better customer experience.

That's going to drive their margin (and share price) downwards, nullifying this critic's argument and replacing it with another one.

In case you're not familiar, Deliveroo is like JustEat & HungryHouse except that Deliveroo provides the entire delivery service, so is able to provide food from restaurants that don't want to get into delivery themselves. This means that (a) Deliveroo are enlarging the market and entirely owning the new segment (b) since Deliveroo know where every driver is the customer experience is better; they call you to tell you the food will be late, rather than you calling them to ask them where the food is.</comment>