China cloning on an 'industrial scale' - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25576718 <comment><USER2> The part about halting pig's aging at one year stopped me in my tracks.

The whole article was incredible, but that has been my lifelong dream (for pets) Imagine a dog that stayed one year old forever. Or a giraffe.

Edit: Guys. I get this isn't an immortal dog. I just want it to stop growing at one year, like the article says. I also understand this isn't a perfect commercialized technology.

<comment><USER3> Kittens forever. Would sell like crazy, then they'd get their butts kicked out on the street.

Maybe when they discover how to maintain the playfulness of a kitten in an adult cat forever...

<comment><USER4> Our two Burmese cats are eight years old and are still as playful, energetic and affectionate as when we got them as kittens - even though they are now quite a bit larger and heavier.

This appears to be a characteristic of the breed:

"Burmese maintain kitten-like interests and energy throughout their adulthood."

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burmese_%28cat%29](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burmese_%28cat%29)

[Should be noted that they are also utterly gorgeous as well]

<comment><USER5> I have a Burmese and they are VERY playful and energetic, sometimes too much so. But they are an absolute blast of a pet.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> _" BGI offers a glimpse of what industrial scale could bring to the future of biology."_

 _" If it tastes good you should sequence it," he tells me. "You should know what's in the genes of that species."_

 _" A third category is if it looks cute - anything that looks cute: panda, polar bear, penguin, you should really sequence it - it's like digitalising all the wonderful species," he explains._

<comment><USER7> Man. This disturbs me on a visceral level, even though I know it's inevitable.

<comment><USER8> He is like a developer who can do backend code and understands marketing too.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> We should be cautious of making even more of our food supply dependent on cloning. Then one virus/etc can take out most of the supply. Look at what happened with cloned orange trees.

<comment><USER10> or bananas. but unless you go back in time and change nature, we will continue to only have cloned bananas... unless I'm ignorant of some sexual species (no pun intended)

what they are doing is not becoming dependent of cloning (i hope) but experimenting. so what that we sequenced dna? what does pair 3531 do? they change it to know values (how that part is done intrigues me) and observe the result. ah ok, now we know that pair controls growth hormone. see, science.

it is very similar to what that monk did with flies, which is the reason today that medicine knows if you will have some genetic disease based on family history.

<comment><USER11> a monk and his peas

<comment><USER10> right, mixed up the history of genetics study a little.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drosophila_melanogaster#History...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drosophila_melanogaster#History_of_use_in_genetic_analysis)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> When China finishes its industrial age, it is going to be one terrifying economic force to reckon with.

It is going to be completely self-sustaining, why will it need to answer to anyone.

We've become completely reliant on it and we keep feeding it all our cash.

<comment><USER13> China is the the world as Google is to the internet.

I've said this before, but we should not forget that for 2000 years China was way ahead of other cultures both economically and scientifically. They had a 100 year blip and now they are back with their human ppulation almost completely under their control. Nothing will stand in the way of progress.

Human life is cheap. They have a billion of them and counting. Be afraid, be very afraid.

<comment><USER14> Oh please. Take your fear mongering elsewhere.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> People are going to freak out on this.

I just hope all the negative press wont stop them from continuing.

I have nothing against cloning it's a natural step in biology if we don't do it we won't be able to discover new things.

<comment><USER16> I'm sure they (BGI) will make lot's of mistakes along the way, but they got the right attitude.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Execrable writing, but interesting to see that they're industrializing this already.

<comment><USER18> As a long time fan of the BBC (well all my life really) their web written content often disappoints. When it's on a topic I know it's too often wrong or misleading. They need to bring their written web content up to the level of the rest of their media product.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Would have liked some more info on how they counteract the risks of cloning. Firstly, a success rate of 70-80% is unheard of wrt cloning. Survival rate of clones is very less compared to the natural borns (I know that the pigs probably get killed for food, but a low survival rate could be indicative of unhealthiness too). Lastly, cloning is prone to complications during growth. (more on that here - [http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/cloning/cloningrisks/](http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/cloning/cloningrisks/))

I wouldn't want to eat a cloned pig. Would you?

<comment><USER20> Unless there was evidence to show that a particular clone was bad for you (to eat) why wouldn't you eat it?

You trust 'natural selection' more than 'attempted perfect clone'... why?

<comment><USER21> Your premise seems to be that if the natural born animal is ok to eat, then the clone of it is ok to eat. On the other hand, if the survival rate of clones is less than natural born, doesn't that imply that the two aren't exactly equal?

<comment><USER22> The survival rate is different because of the way they blastocysts have to be implanted. We have no reason to presuppose that cloned animals will present more risk to eat than bred animals.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> I found this amusing: "This is a BGI innovation: replacing expensive machines with people."

Probably because it seems contrary to the common (western?) opinion that workers might eventually be replaced by "cheaper" machines.

(fwiw I'm aware that it's not that simple, but from my experience many people think machines are always cheaper than human workers)

<comment><USER24> China may also be more accustomed to seeing people as a cheaper resource.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Is there any good source for China science news in English?

<comment><USER26> Damn, this sentence shows just how deep in the sh*t we in the west really have become standing.

<comment><USER27> I'm not sure I follow — how would it have been any different if he were looking for translations of, say, German news?

<comment><USER26> i include Germany in "the west".

Seing someone on hacker news trying to find scientific news in english from China is a big hint that china is now where scientific breakthrough will occur. And since China still remains a pretty "special" political regime, i don't feel very reassured.

<comment><USER22> For a long time exciting science has been coming from China. Why is that a problem? It's not a competition :) it's all good for the world.

<comment><USER26> Hmm, not sure today's china government is aiming at making "the world" a better place. They seem pretty focused on China only interest at the moment (and not everyone in China i would add)...

<comment><USER22> It doesn't matter what their aim is, BGI are advancing science that benefits us all. They publish their research, we read it, everyone wins. Except the pigs.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> 500 pigs a year is not industrial scale it's small scale batch production if that.

<comment><USER29> Like a Chinese once said, a single spark can start a prairie fire

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> for anybody with a new yorker subscription this article on BGI is also fascinating [http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2014/01/06/140106fa_fact_...](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2014/01/06/140106fa_fact_specter)

</comment><comment><USER31> The helpful link here to the New Yorker article about other BGI projects helped establish some context for this article. The BBC and the New Yorker are both professionally managed news organizations, but I think people don't appreciate how practiced BGI is at playing two weaknesses of most news organizations: (1) the gee-whiz factor of China as a still mysterious country where most reporters can't speak the local language(s) and the government still controls the press and (2) the gee-whiz factor of genetics research as a developing science that seemingly explains everything. I have a lot of in- person and online acquaintance with genetics researchers, and so far it looks like BGI is overhyping and underdelivering in the usual manner of the science news cycle.[1]

Particularly if we are talking about new developments in animal husbandry, an important industry all over the world where people eat meat or use leather, what is economical to do in one country may not be economical to do in another country, and national barriers to free trade in animal products on dubious scientific grounds are still very much a factor in international trade (and thus domestic prices) for animal products. So maybe this is a big deal for hog producers in other countries, or maybe not. The comment already posted here that the scale described in the article kindly submitted here counts as small- scale rather than "industrial scale" in the United States is correct--some of my cousins are hog producers, and they keep track of all the latest technology in the industry.

Here on Hacker News, we have had several discussions of gee-whiz stories about predicted future developments in China that end up never happening. (How many of you remember the many stories about the prefab skyscraper that was to be built in a matter of days?) Predicting the future in China is easy these days: just predict something amazing and seemingly impossible anywhere else, and watch the journalists lap it up. But sometimes the future never comes to China. Anyone who raises hogs for a living will follow this news closely, but whether this news will change any practices in the worldwide industry as a whole remains to be seen.

[1] [http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1174](http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1174)

AFTER EDIT: From another comment in a different subthread here,

 _They 've already invested in researching the large patchwork of genes that are correlated with high IQ._

And that is why I think BGI is more hype than substance. So far BGI has not produced any publishable results from that research. When it has publishable results, I venture to predict, the results will show that any one gene, and any assemblages of genes that they find, will have limited effect on phenotype for IQ. The research on this subject consistently shows this, and some of the best human genetics researchers on the planet already have publications on this issue.[2][3][4]

[2] Deary, Johnson, and Penke (2010). "The neuroscience of human intelligence differences"

[http://www.larspenke.eu/pdfs/Deary_Penke_Johnson_2010_-_Neur...](http://www.larspenke.eu/pdfs/Deary_Penke_Johnson_2010_-_Neuroscience_of_intelligence_review.pdf)

"At this point, it seems unlikely that single genetic loci have major effects on normal-range intelligence. For example, a modestly sized genome-wide study of the general intelligence factor derived from ten separate test scores in the cAnTAB cognitive test battery did not find any important genome-wide single nucleotide polymorphisms or copy number variants, and did not replicate genetic variants that had previously been associated with cognitive ability."

[3] Johnson, W. (2010). Understanding the Genetics of Intelligence: Can Height Help? Can Corn Oil?. Current Directions in Psychological Science, 19(3), 177-182

[http://apsychoserver.psych.arizona.edu/JJBAReprints/PSYC621/...](http://apsychoserver.psych.arizona.edu/JJBAReprints/PSYC621/Johnson%20Current%20Directions%20Psych%20Science%202010%20\(G%20and%20E%20in%20IQ\).pdf)

looks at some famous genetic experiments to show how little is explained by gene frequencies even in thoroughly studied populations defined by artificial selection.

"Together, however, the developmental natures of GCA [general cognitive ability] and height, the likely influences of gene-environment correlations and interactions on their developmental processes, and the potential for genetic background and environmental circumstances to release previously unexpressed genetic variation suggest that very different combinations of genes may produce identical IQs or heights or levels of any other psychological trait. And the same genes may produce very different IQs and heights against different genetic backgrounds and in different environmental circumstances."

[4] Chabris, C. F., Hebert, B. M., Benjamin, D. J., Beauchamp, J., Cesarini, D., van der Loos, M., ... & Laibson, D. (2012). Most reported genetic associations with general intelligence are probably false positives. Psychological science, 23(11), 1314-1323. DOI: 10.1177/0956797611435528

[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3498585/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3498585/)

[http://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/9938142/Most_Repo...](http://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/9938142/Most_Reported_Genetic.pdf?sequence=1)

"At the time most of the results we attempted to replicate were obtained, candidate-gene studies of complex traits were commonplace in medical genetics research. Such studies are now rarely published in leading journals. Our results add IQ to the list of phenotypes that must be approached with great caution when considering published molecular genetic associations. In our view, excitement over the value of behavioral and molecular genetic studies in the social sciences should be tempered—as it has been in the medical sciences—by an appreciation that, for complex phenotypes, individual common genetic variants of the sort assayed by SNP microarrays are likely to have very small effects."

<comment><USER32> The article said _cloning on an industrial scale_ , not hog farming. 500/year large mammal cloning is quite a lot more than anything I've ever heard of. That was the actual point. The things they are claiming to do are not novel, but the scale certainly is. As far as the "sequence everything" goal, BGI has the infrastructure and an established track record already. The final claim that China is an emerging science powerhouse is also not really debatable, considering they are 2nd in R&D spending to the US.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> Kind of surprised he didn't take the name Moreau :-) It will be interesting and potentially shocking to see what comes out of these efforts. Both good and bad scenarios come to mind.

</comment><comment><USER34> lets hope their less constrained ethics result in some good for the poor and needy.

the idea of cute mini pets with their growth hormones gimped is all well and good and i'm sure will be fantastically popular... but its not exactly a noble use of the technology.

I'm thinking more like golden rice v2 - except without being crippled by the infantile kind of controversy that it sparked in the west :)

</comment><comment><USER35> "produces an astonishing 500 cloned pigs a year" \- but why? Is there a market for cloned Pigs!? Is this a research project?

<comment><USER36> Yes - there is a market. Having duplicates of the same animal is seriously useful if you're developing medicines or doing other kinds of R&D

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> I wonder how quickly we will be able to apply the technology to human clones, breeding them for loyalty and obedience.

<comment><USER38> Difficult. We have a troubling capacity for meta-behavior, where we notice how we're thinking and try to change it.

More likely, breed for non-violence and contentment. These are endocrine (?) systems that are immediately available to genetic engineers for tinkering.

<comment><USER37> Of course, you are still left with the problem of how to "retire" obsolescent models. Perhaps the new models could be engineered with the ability to eat foods that are toxic to the old models. In this way, simply turning over increasing quantities of agricultural land to production of the new foods would quickly push "old" food prices beyond the reach of (most of) the old- model human. Without need for overt action, the whole "retirement" process could proceed in an entirely covert and deniable manner.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> So where, exactly, in China is The Island?</comment>


Codecademy vs. Scroll Kit - <AUTHOR> http://codybrowntext.tumblr.com/post/17951263778/codecademy-vs-scroll-kit

<comment><USER2> My issue with having these kind of robust drag and drop html editors isn't so much with the tech as it is the audience it is appealing to. As a developer, unless this thing outputs compliant XHTML/CSS, it's much less useful to me outside of anything like putting up a quick and dirty landing page. Just look at muse.

Yes, templates can look generic and such but the whole point of that is to control the design so that you end up with something that looks decent to the average person. If you want something more custom, learn to code.

More often then not, when you put "robust" tools into the hands of people who don't know what to do, what you end up with is just ugly. Giving the user more choice is sometimes detrimental if they don't know what to do with it.

I think these tools are cool, but I'd like to see more development on editors that teach core concepts like spacing/readability and selecting complimentary colors and guide people through process rather than providing every type of granular control.

<comment><AUTHOR> "More often then not, when you put "robust" tools into the hands of people who don't know what to do, what you end up with is just ugly."

I find this to be true with a lot of developers. They know how to code so they have a "robust" tool set but have no idea how to lay out a page and end up with something functional but ugly.

I very much agree that everyone could benefit from learning more core concepts like spacing and complimentary colors.

Knowing how to code has never meant that you know how to build a good webpage.

<comment><USER2> That's true. Even knowing how to code doesn't mean the output will be nice to look at. I guess what I meant was that providing granular controls that mimic what a developer would do tend to bog down the average user.

For instance, let's say you allow someone to click on a div element and specify the padding/margin/positioning. Now multiply that by 10 elements on the screen and give them a blank slate in regards to layout/colors and that's a recipe for ugly.

We seem to want that ideal of total control in a wysiwyg editor (ie build your site from scratch and drag anything anywhere!) but I would suggest that it's something else entirely for the casual website builder. Not templates, but maybe a hybrid.

That said, scrollkit looks pretty awesome and looking forward to how it evolves.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> I was a UI designer at Homestead (and later Intuit) where we've had a drag- and-drop website editor for years. The problem we we eventually faced was not helping non-developers "develop" a website, but helping non-developers "design" a website. A website that looked professional (we catered to small businesses), readable (yellow text on red backgrounds is incredible difficult to read), and contained the information their users are looking for (like a phone number). Some users will get it and create great looking websites. Most will not, and that's where templates become really helpful, if not necessary.

There's an interesting irony you might face. Helping non-developers create and publish a website is an incredibly delightful experience for them. It's easy to forget the time years ago when we wrote our first line of code and it worked. It's incredibly satisfying and empowering. It's a great feeling to instill in your users. But that doesn't help them design better pages. In fact, it sometimes works against it. They'll add whacky text, images, and background colors because it's fun to play and create. The more power they have, the more they'll take advantage of it. For one-off personal web pages it won't be a big deal. But for creating serious websites, it might become a problem.

Good luck though! It's great seeing others innovating in this space!

</comment><comment><USER4> Scroll Kit is a polished, advanced tool to put creative tools in the hands of lay people. There's room for that in the marketplace. (Weebly etc. are already doing it, but still, the beta is slick and a job well done.)

But man, it reminds me of Apple's Pages, which my mother used in December to create THE WORLD'S UGLIEST HOLIDAY NEWSLETTER. When I got it, I was actually embarrassed, wondering what hundreds of other people were thinking when they got it (look at this - has P. been drinking?). I would much, much rather she asked me for some help and allowed me to guide her to a) a better result and b) a rudimentary understanding of how the tool she's using works.

tl;dr - startups shouldn't settle for making something possible for their users - they should make it their mission to help their users become _awesome_ at something.

</comment><comment><USER5> How does scrollkit compete with code academy? Scrollkit seems to be for building websites, while code academy is for teaching people programming.

<comment><USER6> I think that's sort of the point. I don't think they compete, but what's interesting is people's perception that they do. It serves to highlight this tension between expectations of tech literacy going up at the same time as tools are making coding skills less necessary for building things on the web.

<comment><USER5> Oh I get it. People were ditching code academy because instead of learning to code, they could just use ScrollKit instead. I thought people were actually saying "ScrollKit is better at teaching me to code than Code Academy is."

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> "Please switch to Google Chrome to Access the Editor"

Well, I'm done with scrollkit.com.

<comment><USER6> Sorry, we'll definitely be supporting other browsers in the future. We're a two-person team right now and haven't had the time to work out all the browser compatibility issues. Looking to hire a 3rd person - interested?

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> > The difference between a div class and a div id ... [is] the kind of brutal > lessons that first timers slog through and few master (and that's the simple > stuff).

Really? Just think of the class as a surname and the id as a social security number - many people can have the same surname, and those that have the same one have something in common. Only one person can have a given SSN.

What's hard about it? Okay, one is denoted by '.' and the other by '#', but I'm not sure how something like _that_ gets more complicated.

CSS and Javascript can be a pain overall, but in the end, if you need to know much more than the above, you should really just be learning to use the entire toolbox, not picking and choosing the tools that you think you want (which are oftentimes not the ones you really need).</comment>


Show HN: JuvMed – Health practice management software - <AUTHOR> https://juvmed.com/ <comment><USER2> As a healthcare investment banker that just sold an EHR, practice management and RCM I think it is really good. A lot of smaller doctor practices don't have the ability to schedule online so this could be valuable for them. I would think about adding a patient facing iPad app so patients can check-in in the office and something to accept payments.

To respond to other comments, this isn't an EHR so you probably don't have to be HIPAA complaint.

<comment><USER3> Yeah, but there's not exactly a strong trend of more independent non-hospital affiliated practices springing up creating a huge market [1, 2].

I also sorta doubt that the practices that have a large need for EHR/RCM (i.e. anyone who takes medicare/private insurance) don't already have a EHR/RCM solution already that has this functionality built in a la athenahealth/practice fusion.

[1]. [https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2016.0130](https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2016.0130) [2]. [https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/practices/healthcare- leader...](https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/practices/healthcare-leaders-look- at-past-present-and-future-consolidation)

<comment><USER2> True, but there is a market. The names you mentioned are moving upstream and charging a higher price than many independent physicians are willing to spend. Those names also have a practice management tool but want you to bundle their EHR. An independent time management platform makes sense to me.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Welcome to the Practice Management biz!

1) I'm not seeing any mention of HIPAA (or other medical privacy laws) compliance. Lack of compliance would be a non-starter for basically all medical professionals.

2) This is wildly cheap, when compared to other EHRs like AthenaHealth or Dr. Chrono. Part of that makes sense due to the reduced feature set you're offering, but something to consider.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks :)

> 1) I'm not seeing any mention of HIPAA (or other medical privacy laws) > compliance. Lack of compliance would be a non-starter for basically all > medical professionals.

Since this is bootstrapped, I was hoping to get some customers, to be able to invest in certification. Would you see any path going forward without certification for now?

> 2) This is wildly cheap, when compared to other EHRs

I was hoping for this to be a differentiator, since this is at beginning. What would be a better alternative?

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> If I may be blunt, it seems to lack a TON of features any modern practicing doctor would want. A lot of doctors need the ability to do documentation for reimbursement, and I don't really see any demonstration that this was taken seriously.

Given maybe the idea is to only focus on practice management, well you're certainly then going to want to be able to integrate into major EHR vendors, and well they probably don't have any incentive to help.

As a person who has a close idea of where the current EHR market is (MS in health econ and a PhD candidate in health informatics), I'm not convinced that there's a significant marketshare that hasn't been met by EHR vendors (allscripts/athenahealth/cerner).

<comment><AUTHOR> > A lot of doctors need the ability to do documentation for reimbursement, and > I don't really see any demonstration that this was taken seriously.

Not yet. I'm trying to find some paying customers before investing more.

> you're certainly then going to want to be able to integrate into major EHR > vendors, and well they probably don't have any incentive to help.

Indeed. I was aiming to evolve into an EHR itself to overcome this.

> I'm not convinced that there's a significant marketshare

Since I have a hard time finding customers, this seems right. How would to recommend to proceed to carve out a niche in this market?

<comment><USER3> I would say your primary strength right now is that you're clearly skilled in developing an aesthetically pleasing front end experience, something that EPIC and other major vendors don't do well (there's an entire PhD thesis to this, but the tldr is that the vendors primary 'selling point' is to help increase revenue from reimbursements).

The biggest opportunity area imho are clinical 'apps' using interoperability standards (HL7/FHIR). While EPIC and CERNER have a lot of functionality, they don't cover everything (like certain clinical calculators/ better visual representations of data). There are certainly unmet clinical needs from these apps, and if you're willing to put in the effort to do more background research, I'm certain you can find some of these unmet needs. It's admittedly a very different strategy that you're currently pitching, but I think it's where there is significant growth for

For further references that are useful: [1]. [https://www.wired.com/2015/04/the-overdose-harm-in-a- wired-h...](https://www.wired.com/2015/04/the-overdose-harm-in-a-wired- hospital/) [2]. [https://apporchard.epic.com/](https://apporchard.epic.com/) [3]. [https://healthtechmagazine.net/article/2018/10/everything- yo...](https://healthtechmagazine.net/article/2018/10/everything-you-need- know-about-smart-fhir-perfcon) [4]. [https://apps.smarthealthit.org/](https://apps.smarthealthit.org/)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you! I'll look into this. Appreciate taking the time to list references.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Would this be appropriate for mental health practitioners or is it primarily for physicians?

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for asking. I've started out with psychology my single customer is a psychology clinic. However, it's designed to be applicable to any practice, via dedicated modules, if needed.

How should I proceed to target physicians?

<comment><USER5> Hi thanks for responding it's a good site.

I was actually inquiring for a friend of mine who's a social worker and has a small Private practice.

I think a major issue you might encounter is HIPAA type regulations. Medical practitioners are extremely risk-averse when it comes to patient information.

I didn't see anything on the site about this.

<comment><AUTHOR> Right. Since this is bootstrapped, I was hoping to get some customers, to be able to invest in certification. Would you see any path going forward without certification for now?

<comment><USER5> I would never give up on any project I was working on. Everything has challenges, you just need to figure out how to overcome or pivot in some way.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


American Born Mos Def Barred from entering the U.S.  - <AUTHOR> http://www.bet.com/news/music/2014/05/21/report-yasiin-bey-barred-from-re-entering-the-u-s.html?cid=facebook

<comment><USER2> The story seems very incomplete... they quote him saying that he lived in NYC for 33 years and that for someone like him to want to leave there must be something really wrong with US, but then offer zero substance on what actually is going on.

This is the closing line: "It is unclear what kind of discrepancies are holding up his re-entry into the U.S."

Is this something that is well known and I've just been hiding under a rock?

<comment><USER3> Every article I found is quoting this: [http://togetherboston.com/news-mos- def-cancels-upcoming-us-t...](http://togetherboston.com/news-mos-def-cancels- upcoming-us- tour/?utm_content=buffer06789&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer)

I don't understand how there isn't any update, considering it's been 9 days.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'm not a hip hop afficionado so I don't know the answer, did this guy give up his American citizenship?

<comment><USER5> Not clear.

If he obtained South African citizenship, it's possible that he would have lost or renounced his US citizenship as a result -- it's not uncommon for a naturalization process to require renouncing the prior citizenship. US law is also a bit weird about allowing multiple citizenship.</comment></comment>


Yahoo/Mashable BOSS Challenge Finalists (including Duck Duck Go) - <AUTHOR> http://mashable.com/2008/10/07/voting-boss-mashable-challenge/

<comment><AUTHOR> All the finalists (and the other showcased startups and honorable mentions for that matter--see bottom of <http://mashable.com/boss/> for list) are pretty cool.

I'm grateful that my site (Duck Duck Go) is among them. If you like it, please support a fellow news.yc'r and vote for it! As a single founder, I need all the help I can get...And thanks again for all the support and comments two weeks ago: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=315142>

</comment><comment><USER2> I liked DuckDuckGO - and SocialMention the most - SM offered a way to find out about obscure websites mentioning your business genre' -- Also the one that helped with plagerism is nice..

<comment><USER3> DuckDuckGo is awesome. Voted up. I also like the idea of SocialMention, but it didn't work well for me. Most of the results I got were not relevant.

<comment><USER4> And you have to wait like 20 seconds until you see the results...

<comment><AUTHOR> Yahoo BOSS was having issues today...bad timing I know...I hope they are just growing pains. Seems to be resolved now.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> This probably belongs in the original DuckDuckGo feedback thread (but it's long buried now) but why does the "more images" link to a Google image search?

The thumbnails are fed from Flickr, and I fully expected to be taken to Flickr when I clicked 'more'.

<comment><AUTHOR> There are ten finalists, and they are all worth looking at.

As for more images, the image feed is actually coming from BOSS. They just happen to use a lot of Flickr. Ultimately, I hope to have the more links load more images off the BOSS feed, but for now I just sent it to the best image search (IMHO).

<comment><USER6> _There are ten finalists, and they are all worth looking at._

I think he meant that his question belongs in that thread, not your post.

<comment><AUTHOR> Good point. Sorry josefresco.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Duck Duck Go has a unique view on the world of search. I think that their approach is unique and provides true value in a world evermore dominated by monopoly operations. Excellent search engine!

<comment><USER8> Seriously, I know you like the product, but this sounds like a 'business school recommendation letter'

<comment><USER9> Or a shill. This is chessy1984's sole comment.

<comment><AUTHOR> Just to be clear, I have no idea who this person is (and is of course therefore not me).

<comment><USER10> I'm sure there are a variety of reasons that you could have posted that and not know who it is :)

I trust you, though.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Free .co.uk domains - <AUTHOR> http://www.gbbo.co.uk

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes totally for free. I just registered a domain on that site. It works.

</comment><comment><USER2> Absolute Bullshit.

here is why -- the first year is 'free' - but the regular fee of 18+ GBP shal apply after the first year.

They claim that 18+ GBP is 25% of the normal annual fee:

 _"Your first year is absolutely free. Afterwards, you can renew with Yola for only £18.82GBP (25% off the regular price). The Yola Bronze package includes the domain, hosting, styles, and support for one year."_

So, that means the second year would cost you $30.59 -- if the 25% 'discount' expires after the second year, the fee is then $122.32

So, assuming you held this domain ~3 years: you are basically paying 50 / year.

Fuck this BS.

EDIT: my math is off, but even still - this is a ripoff

<comment><AUTHOR> I guess if you transfer the domain you won't need to pay as much as £18 for renewal.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Which format would be the best for an analytics export? - <AUTHOR> This is one of the best places to ask this question I guess, because of the technical background a lot of users have in here.
Information: I launched a Twitter account analytics/analysis tool around a month ago (might post it in the Show HN section soon, but no link here). Short description: You can see some basic information like followers, likes & more. On top of that, there are some analysis - of course (for example: most used words, most used hashtags, a graph with the users history (Tweet amount) of the past 12 months, ...). Now that you have an imagination what I'm talking about: A user suggested to compile a list of links the user, which is been analyzed, posted and provide an export function for those links. I'd like to add an export functionality to every part of the analysis and the analysis as a whole. Are there any "standards" for an exported list of links? Any big applications, which provide a way to import a list of links, where I could orientate at? What about the whole analysis export? Is it all about consistency, all okay as far as I don't change the export structure daily? JSON?
So a couple of questions in my mind, thanks for reading and any kind of suggestion or useful information! <comment><USER2> I hate to say it, but the favorite tool of marketing types is still Excel or Google sheets. If your data is a good fit with CSV, customers will have an easy time consuming it.

</comment><comment><USER3> One method might be:

1\. Implement a very simple version of the feature.

2\. Show it to the users.

3\. Ask for feedback.

Starting with plain text not JSON might be simpler. Plain text also might create more opportunity for discussion with users.

Good luck.</comment>


MacOS users beware: A new and nearly undetectable malware is on the rise - <AUTHOR> http://www.techrepublic.com/google-amp/article/macos-users-beware-a-new-and-nearly-undetectable-malware-is-on-the-rise/ <comment><USER2> > _The one bright spot in the OSX /Dok outbreak -- There isn't much good to > say about this rather sophisticated malware except for one thing: It's > spreading through phishing emails and requires the user to download and run > an executable to install it. As long as users aren't falling for the phish > there's nothing to worry about._

The typical scare mongering about how OS X users are not immune, etc etc, and in the end it's just another trojan like always...</comment>


Android v. iOS Part 5: Android Is A Two-Legged Stool - <AUTHOR> http://techpinions.com/android-v-ios-part-5-android-is-a-two-legged-stool/9596

<comment><USER2> Sounds like another angry Apple fanboy on a tirade.</comment>


Mathematics without history is soulless - <AUTHOR> https://hackernoon.com/mathematics-without-history-is-soulless-978436602fa4 <comment><USER2> This was submitted by the author a few days ago, but it gained no upvotes, and only one comment. The comment was mine, and I repeat it here. The "you" in this comment is the author:

 _On this I beg to differ. Or at least, you are making a sweeping generalisation. Not everyone thinks and feels as you do._

 _For me, being given "historical context" and having to understand where these things came from, or why they were interesting, or how they were developed, or who did them, was tedious agony, and I hated it with a passion that's hard to describe._

 _I understand that for some people it brings mathematics to life, for others, like me, it kills it. Please don 't think everyone is like you._

<comment><AUTHOR> The author's statements are reasonable. I am surprised by your comment as well as the need to repost it.

He's taking the time to remind us of the richness beyond the technical understanding of mathematics. I think this is a good reminder, in particular, for a technically proficient audience that may spend the majority of their time on technical matters.

Nowhere did he say that we should be historians or encyclopedias of/for mathematics.

At worst, his point stimulates an additional portion of our brains and may make mathematics more accessible to some.

The title might be hyperbolic, but it's effective.

<comment><USER2> I am surprised at your surprise. All I'm saying is that for me, what the author proposes would have been strongly counter-productive. I'm sure I'm not alone in this. I'm sure some students would benefit, I'm sure others, equally, would not.

I just wanted to be sure that the complementary point of view was expressed, especially since it affects me personally.

        The title might be hyperbolic,
        but it's effective.

Actually, I disagree with the title. Mathematics has a life and soul of its own separately and independently of its history. The real problem is that in school one doesn't actually study mathematics anyway, one mostly does arithmetic and manipulation. Perhaps for many students the problem lies not in understanding the history, but in not doing mathematics to start with.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> I think it's often useful to provide the mathematics first, then add history when / if it's interesting.

Same applies to physics, imho. There's a lot of interesting historical development behind most topics, but physics is complicated enough as it is, and understanding the current state first is important if you ever hope to understand how it developed historically.

</comment><comment><USER4> "mathematics without context is soulless" is my preferred sentiment.

<comment><USER5> Exactly.

It's a false dichotomy between "mathematics, unadorned" and "the history of math". Philosophy is an example of a subject at the other end of the spectrum, taught almost entirely through history, yielding a strangely disjointed and unstructured experience: "Plato thought we all live in a cave. Descartes thought he might be a brain in a vat. Sarte claimed God was dead. etc..." Meanwhile the student is wondering what on earth all these looney toons have to do with each other and why she should care, because the larger framework is neglected and discredited ideas aren't pruned.

I think the correct approach is to teach structure first, justification/usefulness second, and history a distant third - best reserved for explaining awkward but hard-to-change inconsistencies (such as the use of pi instead of tau as the circle constant). I would also submit that if the justification for some aspect of a subject is _only_ historical, it should probably be dropped...</comment></comment>


Ask HN: How do you leave a company the right way? - <AUTHOR> I've been with a company (~150 headcount) for 4 years, and it's been terrific. Everyone I work with is fun, and smart, and just a good person. I've loved it. But I'm leaving to start my own company (not in the same industry).
This is my first company, and so it's the first one that I'm leaving. People usually do a two-weeks-notice, and it's not awkward, just sort of wrap up existing work, document things you worked on, and make sure your last day is on a Friday so everyone can go out for drinks one last time.
What's the proper way to give my resignation/notice, and tell my coworkers? I've only ever been on the receiving end of this when we congratulate a coworker on moving on to a different or better opportunity. Do I send out an email first to my manager and HR, or tell my manager in a one-on-one?
How have you done it? <comment><USER2> I've been on both sides of this and have done it poorly and well. The best way I've found is this.

Talk to your manager first. Communicating via email will send the wrong message and has more of a chance to be misunderstood.

Tell them why your leaving and what constraints you have (do you need to be full time at your new gig in 2 weeks/months/days or are you flexible). Then ask them how they want to proceed. This part is a negotiation and your trying to find what works for both you and the company. Don't agree to something you don't want to do - this can be mitigated by letting them know all your constraints at the beginning of the conversation.

The next steps will be decided by you and your manager. So it changes based on the specifics of your role and the company, but usually this means you'll send something out to everyone else on your team to inform them and then spend the next couple of weeks finishing projects and handing them off.

<comment><AUTHOR> Good call on thinking about timing, I'm probably too flexible, and having not thought about it, I'd definitely agree to something I didn't want :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I have tried this and I'm still alive:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj2iGAifSNI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj2iGAifSNI)

I can't say it is a best practice.

<comment><AUTHOR> Haha while I'd love to do a walk-out sometime in my life, I'd want the company to have earned it before I give it to them.</comment></comment>


After Travis Kalanick's Resignation, Will Uber Really Change? - <AUTHOR> http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/after-travis-kalanicks-resignation-will-uber-really-change <comment><USER2> Maybe Kalanick wants to manufacture a return story.

<comment><USER3> I was thinking about this last night after listening (paradoxically) to a podcast from ESPN about Phil Jackson and Steve Jobs.

This was The Dan Le Batard podcast from Thursday and they talked about return stories. Dan posited the line from The Dark Knight "you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain" and asked if Phil Jackson had become the villain (the context here is Phil jackson's problems with the New York Knicks and the conversation around how unlikeable he's become to fans of NBA basketball compared to his status first at the head coach of the Jordan area Chicago Bulls and early career Kobe Bryant era Lakers)

Producer Mike Ryan then brings up Steve Jobs and his exit from Next and eventual return to Apple.

That's what got me thinking, would it even be possible in today's hyperspeed/"always on" media world for Kalanick to return or even foist the conditions for a return to Uber or whatever Uber becomes the way Steve Jobs did with Next and eventually Apple?

<comment><USER4> I think it's possible if Uber bumbles along for a while. Jack returned to Twitter --under way different circumstances, but still, I don't think it's inconceivable that if Uber goes south enough, even investors who pushed him out might have a change of heart.

<comment><USER3> Allow me to take the easy answers off the table and ask you to remove the scandals ongoing and ask: what would it take for Uber to go under enough for those conditions to take place as you put them?

I ask as a person who lives in a town that watched both Uber and Lyft leave in protest of local regulations, watched those same companies lobby my legislature for laws that effectively neutered municipal code, watched Uber and a Lyft return operations, and is watching competitors that sprung up in the vacuum quickly die.

With Truckload of chagrin.

It's a very strange but fascinating thing to watch at the local level so I'm always curious to hear how others look at the behemoth.

<comment><USER4> Thinking off the top of my head I would say a conservative leadership which would allow a challenger to gain an upper hand and render Uber a flagging company. I think that scenario is possible if the management devote too much of their energy on overcorrecting internal matters.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


What is the most frustrating thing about excel? - <AUTHOR> What is the most frustrating thing about excel? <comment><USER2> Date coercion

</comment><comment><USER3> Microsoft's attempts to improve it.</comment>


AngularJS Pain Points - <AUTHOR> http://www.jacopretorius.net/2013/07/angularjs-pain-points.html

<comment><USER2> Bump on the complexity. I've been trying to learn Angular for months and I still don't think I am comfortable with it. The tutorials out there focus too much on basics. I found an early video on Youtube that described some of its internals (e.g. parsing your HTML/DOM), which helped.

I started looking into Backbone yesterday and found the initial curve to be so much better. There is no mystery in my mind on how to set up a basic model on top of a resty service and putting views and collections on top. I'm currently trying to decide if I should switch over to Backbone as I learn. I do realize there is a lot more code to write if I go the Backbone route. I think I can live without two-way data binding. However, I think will miss directives.

<comment><USER3> I would agree.

I first started using Knockout.js and within an evening I was up and running and pretty much knew all I needed to know to get cracking.

Our whole team has been using Angular now for about 2 weeks and we are all still confused as hell about how we are supposed to get certain things working.

I can see the power of Angular, when stuff does click with it, it does really click. I think the problem is that thinking 'Angular' is completely different to working with jQuery and the DOM - for which I have years of habits deeply ingrained in me. The documentation really should make this clear from the start - 'forget everything you knew about front end development and start completely from scratch'.</comment></comment>


Designing Great Feedback Loops - <AUTHOR> http://uxdesign.smashingmagazine.com/2013/02/15/designing-great-feedback-loops/ <comment><USER2> Yes, let's use some impressive-sounding engineering terms when describing a process that (a) has no connection with either engineering or science, and (b) can't be either quantified or falsified.

Once a social scientist discovers he can't apply real quantitative science to a human process, it seems an overwhelming temptation to use just the words and leave it at that.</comment>


Ask HN: How Would you Implement this? - <AUTHOR>

I am not a developer but I have dabbled in the past and I consider myself fairly technical and web savvy. I have an interesting idea for a small web app and I am considering options for implementing it.
So I would like to ask the HN community how you o glorious hackers would advise me to implement such a lowly app as the one (sort of) described briefly below.
Features: 1. A main page that allows the user to upload as many images as they want. Kind of like selecting multiple files to attach to an email. 2. The user should be required to enter an email address. 3. The site will charge per image so needs checkout facilities including taking shipping details and postage charging etc. 4. At checkout the user should have the option to: 4.1. Save their shipping address for use next time (in other words sign-up). Otherwise, the user should not need to sign-up to use the service. If they do choose to sign-up, they will need to provide a password - ideally without going to a separate page. 4.2. Have their images stored for future use and shared with their Facebook friends. This would require d user to enter their Facebook username (email) or state that it is the same as the email address already entered above. 5. Ideally, all of the above functionality should be on a single page. 6. A My Images page for registered users. 7. A Tell a Friend page and associated form. 8. An About Us page.
Without giving the idea away, the closest thing I can liken this to is one of those websites to which you can upload your photos and have them printed and sent to you.
As a non-developer on a very tight budget, below are the implementation options that I can see for now: 1. Buy/clone one of said photo-printing services, modify it and for the Facebook functionality, integrate/mashup the site up with Facebook Connect, Gigya's Socialize or WidgetBox's AppAccelerator. 2. Use one of the many easy website builders out there like Weebly or Synthasite, mashed-up with form-builder Wufoo and do the same as above for the Facebook bits. 3. Pay someone to build the site from scratch and integrate with Facebook as above. 4. Pay someone to build it as a Facebook app directly.
So what do you think? Which of the options are viable/best, how much would you charge a customer for option 3 or 4 above? <comment><USER2> Option #3/4: In a software project, you have three main levers - time, quality and cost. Improve one, then you need to lose on one or both of the others.

If you want real ballpark to start the thinking process (can't really promise much more than that without a lot more information) - well I'd say that a local 2-3 man shop might quote around $25k on this (i.e. ~4 weeks work).

Course, people will tell you that this is 1 week's work, or 2 days, or whatever, but generally this will be coming a developer, and they'll only quote the development time.

This cost will vary greatly depending on location (e.g. India vs Bay Area vs elsewhere). You could look at going somewhere like India, China or the former Eastern Block for development - the daily rate will be lower, but I suspect the overheads will swamp you, particularly for a one-off piece of work.

The approach will make a big difference too - I suspect you'd find if you tweaked certain requirements something like Google Checkout could provide a lot.

If you wanted to build something to demonstration level only, then probably half that.

A larger professional development shop could easily quote 50-100k. They'll want to do requirements, testing, etc, etc.

If I was building this in/for a corporate environment with all the trimmings, then I'd push this ballpack up to 100-200k. (You don't really get "Hello World" in this environment for less than 100k - but it'll be tested to the n'th degree, scalable, fault tolerant, etc, etc).

There are other costs as well, perhaps more significant and something to be aware of.

1\. How much interface/web design do you want to put into the product? You can spend very little through to astronomical amounts on the design.

2\. If you're handling images, potentially large ones, then you're going to have a much higher bandwidth and storage requirements than many web apps.

2B. If you need to scale (i.e. X new users every day) the you'll need to accommodate that. Even if you're not paying for the capacity, building in the ability to scale can be expensive. This could be anything from using a top- tier host, or investing a lot more in development and performance testing.

3\. You might need other things like domains, secure certificates, company formation fees, legal fees (disclaimers, etc). You might (and I usually recommend) want a good copywriter. These things are usually pretty manageable in themselves, but add up really quickly.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the thoughtful post. Wow - that much huh? It really feels like a fairly basic app to me but I guess that shows how much I know. I did have someone build me a comparably complex app for me for $600 last year though - but no facebook integration with that one.

Yes, it had occurred to me that storage could be an issue with this one.

By the way, do you know any good resources for finding good but affordable copywriters?

Still keen to read others' thoughts.

<comment><USER3> Well, the idea comes to my mind that, if it could be done for $600 (or even $6000), then it's a side project that any developer, anywhere could do in a month of spare time if they had the idea. You can't patent/trademark an idea either so, if you can build it for cheap, someone can copy it for cheap as well.

Looking at your specs, I don't necessarily agree that you'll need $25k minimum. It seems pretty simple to me too; $1k-$3k for the right person seems right to me to get you your beta then another $1k for bug squashing and $x/mth for maintenance.

What I don't get is that (a) you aren't the developer, (b) you aren't wanting to write copy, and (c) it doesn't seem like something that needs a salesperson making calls, so what's your role? Rhetorical question really.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Do coding interviews accurately assess candidates? - <AUTHOR>

Is asking applicants to write code to solve a random problem while the interviewer watches a good way to assess the applicant's abilites? <comment><USER2> Yes and no.

Yes it can help understand where a candidate is confident or weak, but no it doesn't tell you if the candidate is qualified usually. I have had people flub the most basic of questions because of nerves or a stupid mental block etc. So I don't think this is a productive way of learning if the person is quality or not.

But even a slight twist of making it mainly interactive can lead to many more interesting discoveries. Recognizing people might be nervous and giving them some helpful hints and working collaboratively with them to come up with ideas/solutions and letting them lead you where they feel is the right place helps you learn far more. This doesn't mean that you aren't pushing them to learn the extent of their capabilities, it just means you are doing it in a way in which you are hopefully getting the best/most from the person.

I have also found that even when you need to say no to those that can't make the cut, if you followed the basic collaboration pattern they will generally spread good comments about the process and over a little time that helps you get better applicants.

</comment><comment><USER3> It's better to give them a coding assignment with a deadline of say 24 or 48 hours. That way they can use resources available to them, just as they would at the workplace. Have them submit it to github as a pull request, and you can inspect the quality of the code.

Follow up with a phone call to discuss the code and ask questions about it. That way you know the candidate actually wrote the code and you can be confident the quality of it represents the candidate's skills.</comment>


[Vote] Would you give an "ebay for services" a chance? - <AUTHOR> http://twitter.com/derpapst <comment><USER2> "like translation or tutorial help"

How am I supposed to gauge what I would pay for those services given such a small description? Are we translating a 500 page article or a sentence? A tutorial on how to create a fax cover page in MS Word or a tutorial on how to create paths in Illustrator? Too generic for me to offer value by voting.

</comment><comment><USER3> Lots of people have gone before you, but maybe you've got a fresh take on this? I've done quite a lot of research on this subject, hit me up if you want to talk about it!</comment>


How to find clients as a freelance developer – 5 actionable tips - <AUTHOR> https://youtu.be/NDrpwEUt-LE <comment><AUTHOR> Freelancing is fun - you get to meet new people, see other industries but also get to decide which architectural and technological solutions to use. Basically, you're the salesman, project manager, architect, and developer all at the same time.

One of the hardest parts of freelancing is finding clients. Because of that, I'd like to share with you the 5 tricks I use/follow to find freelance projects.</comment>


When Day Traders Do Well, It's Probably Just Luck - <AUTHOR> https://www.wsj.com/articles/when-day-traders-do-well-its-probably-just-luck-11596898228 <comment><USER2> In my mind, day trading is like poker in the sense that it's a game of skill and luck, and, more importantly, the sharks eat the minnows. I refrain from day trading because I presume I lack the capability to outsmart the sharks.

The article mentions there exist hedge funds that consistently perform well, but it doesn't mention that they're likely making their profit by feasting on the errors of less skilled traders.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> [https://archive.vn/oTB6q](https://archive.vn/oTB6q)

</comment><comment><USER3> If you have a big enough starting pool of people engaged in a mostly chance- based activity and they all have low odds for success, after a few iterations you still end up with a hefty number of people who _look_ like they've got it all figured out.

</comment><comment><USER4> Suppose that's true, how can people after they get training get so lucky they outperform even most software engineers with their earnings - consistently, for decades?</comment>


There Is But One Truly Serious Philosophical Problem - <AUTHOR> http://www.strange-loops.com/blog/?p=56

<comment><USER2> wow...

People like to romanticize suicide, but I think it's pretty much the complete malfunction of a human to try to kill itself.</comment>


You can now be held liable for texting a driver in New Jersey - <AUTHOR> http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/29/4671606/you-can-now-be-held-liable-for-texting-a-driver-in-nj-judge-says

<comment><AUTHOR> The title is a touch more eye-grabbing than the content. The relevant quote:

        We affirm the trial court's order dismissing
        plaintiffs' complaint against the sender of the
        text messages, but we do not adopt the trial
        court's reasoning that a remote texter does not
        have a legal duty to avoid sending text messages
        to one who is driving.

I'm currently of mixed mind about this. On one hand, the judge leaves open the possibility of liability for someone who is _knowingly_ distracting a driver. This doesn't absolve the driver, yet it feels like it may still dilute some drivers' perceived responsibility for maintaining control of the vehicle.</comment>


Snapchat for your tweets - <AUTHOR> https://yuvaj.typeform.com/to/DEDKoS <comment><AUTHOR> Do you like this idea? If yes then how do you plan to use it - Any feedback will help in improving the product

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> What do you think of this?</comment>


This Marijuana Startup Is Valued at Nearly Half a Billion Dollars - <AUTHOR> http://www.geekwire.com/2015/were-not-smoking-something-this-marijuana-startup-is-valued-at-nearly-half-a-billion-dollars/

<comment><USER2> I'm thinking Visine and Tostitos are the real long play here.

<comment><AUTHOR> Cinnamon sugar pop tarts and a glass of cold milk is more how I roll, but yeah.</comment></comment>


Intel becomes a foundry, offers up its 22nm process - <AUTHOR> http://www.extremetech.com/computing/119435-intel-becomes-a-foundry-offers-up-its-22nm-process <comment><USER2> Achronix has been in partnership with Intel for over a year:

[http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870447790457558...](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704477904575586480266005538.html#articleTabs%3Darticle)

[http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4210263/Intel-to- fab...](http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4210263/Intel-to-fab-FPGAs- for-startup-Achronix)

</comment><comment><USER3> Gotta think that Intel and Apple must be having discussions about moving successors to the A5 chips over to Intel's process.

Getting Apple's ARM processors moved to 22mm would be a spectacular coup for both Apple and Intel. You'd think that the volume and funds Apple brings would paper over any hard feelings about not using x86.

<comment><USER4> It would be fantastic for apple, but not so sure about intel.

Remember, intel are right now trying to bring atom-- itself not even on the 22nm process yet-- to exactly the space that the A5 occupies. It would seem suicidal to give away their process advantage against ARM at exactly the time they are pushing hard to get Atom caught up with their lead process (going 22nm next year and 14nm the year after; the same time as their full power processors).

It will be interesting to see if there are any high end ARM chips made at intel, or if they just stick to areas they deem to not be competing with them (which can't be a lot that needs 22nm?)

<comment><USER5> It would not be suicidal, why? Because they have the 22nm lead and will most likely keep the lead for years. It means that Apple will not be able to go back to another provider with the same performance. Which means they can lock Apple and force Apple hand. This would be brilliant.

<comment><USER4> It would be suicidal for their aim of getting atom into tablets and smartphones, I meant. (Which would almost certainly hold more profit than making someone else's processor.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> It could just be that Intel wants to increase their stock price and sees low hanging fruit for expanding revenue and net income in the foundry business which does not damage any of their other competitive positions.

They have ramped up capacity recently and it is beneficial to them to fill that capacity rather than shut it down if they can add some revenue.

Later if they need that capacity for higher margin products like some x86 phone processor that none of us know about Intel can end their agreements with the fabless semiconductor companies and produce their own.

<comment><USER7> It still competes with their CPU business if it takes fab capacity they could otherwise use for (much higher margin!) CPUs. I suspect, as the linked article posits, this is a hedge. They want to maintain the capability to do on- contract fab work, so partnering with a handful of small volume firms (who can be purchased if it turns out they are successful) makes sense.

Intel won't be hooking up with a big ARM SoC designer any time soon.

<comment><USER6> Yes, if there is a market for their higher end CPU business then that would make sense, but presumably they would be using those fabs for that business if they thought there was a market for those units at this point.

I'm saying that Intel may think that the market size for computer processors will continue to grow and this would be space they could fill if necessarily. Realistically though, they would probably just build more fabs.

<comment><USER7> They are using them for that business. Intel's fabs are at capacity, and they're building a new giant one in Oregon right now.

<comment><USER8> Not just D1X in Oregon. Fab 42 is being built in Chandler, Arizona as well.

<comment><USER6> They are also building one in China. A fab produces an enormous number of chips, they are building more capacity than is currently required by the market.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> In a world when a unique soc design using the new processes is becoming more and more rare(because it costs a lot), most of those designs have large programmable components , to enable many uses and many chips sold.

Now, if you make the best programmable components, you'll sell most of the chips that use new processes, and thus financially strangle other chip manufacturers.

</comment><comment><USER10> Another option might be that they're looking to integrate FPGAs on Haswell dies.

</comment><comment><USER11> Seems pretty simple to me: they have spare capacity.

<comment><USER12> ... and this how FabCloud was born ;)

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> _"The other option is that Intel might be looking to boost the performance of its upcoming smartphone- and tablet-oriented Medfield platform."_

I'd go with that one (the first reason was pretty implausible). Get the third party suppliers used to doing test chips on their fab, then pick and choose silicon-proven blocks like the SoC builders on ARM &co are used to.

Possibly, it would be a good idea to have more than one buyer (Intel) in that market ...</comment>


Hackers target the air-gapped networks of the Taiwanese and Philippine military - <AUTHOR> https://www.zdnet.com/article/hackers-target-the-air-gapped-networks-of-the-taiwanese-and-philippine-military/ <comment><USER2> One strategy to lessen the damage and exfil is to create loads of honeypot boxes with a bunch of decoy content on them that look sensitive but is instead innocuous and non-interesting</comment>


Fixing the World (2011) - <AUTHOR> http://zguide.zeromq.org/page:all#Fixing-the-World <comment><USER2> ZeroMQ is great, but it's important to remember it's more like an MQ _framework_ than a turn-key MQ solution. ZeroMQ is like legos that will allow you to _build_ the MQ architecture that you want and it's not something that you will be able to understand and use right away.

If you decide to use ZeroMQ be prepared to spend many hours reading the docs and designing the architecture you desire with the building blocks ZMQ provides. Also be prepared to build out wrappers for your developers to use so they have a simplified API to deal with.

<comment><USER3> The ZeroMQ Guide [1] (originally by Pieter Hintjens, now maintained by the community) is undoubtedly one of the best pieces of technical writing I've ever encountered - like another commenter posted, it's worth reading even if you will never use ZeroMQ.

[1]: [http://zguide.zeromq.org](http://zguide.zeromq.org)

<comment><USER4> I'm not sure I agree. It reminded me of certain "great" textbooks that sometimes get recommended by experts, that aren't actually that great for someone learning something for the first time. They get the reputation as being "great" because they are great for people that already have a good basic grasp of the material: They are precise and pithy, and they contain insights that are deep and useful, but hard to appreciate if this is your first encounter with the material. (Kleppner & Kolenkow would be a good example of a freshman physics textbook in this category.) It seems to me that maybe the ZeroMQ Guide is in this category. Which, of course, is a noble and important category, but maybe not the most important category if you're just starting out on a topic.

<comment><USER5> I'd like to disagree. The first time I read the guide was after my first programming internship during college and didn't really have a background in distributed computing or message queues. I only knew how to read and write code good enough for a CRUD based web app. I understood sockets though.

I found this book a great introduction to MQ and distributed computing in general. I didn't read cover to cover but I remember reading around 2/3rds of the book and didn't find it super hard to follow even though I did have to reread some sections. Also I must mention I was implementing a toy ZeroMQ project while I was reading the book.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> We use 0MQ in our products at work. Once we got it set up correctly, it just worked! It makes distributed systems really easy to use. I can't say enough about it.

We use ProtoBuf for the "formatting" of all the data the goes through 0MQ layer. They pair together nicely

This lets us pair together say a processor built in C on one machine to a test GUI built in Matlab on another machine without significant effort.

</comment><comment><USER7> That section focuses on ease of use, compared to raw TCP, HTTP, and so on, but I'm rather unsure whether it extends (or is any notable) for arbitrary projects (that is, not counting few for which it is suited particularly well), beyond experimental and basic ones.

I used ZMQ in production 6+ years ago, and there were hard-to-reproduce bugs somewhere. Not sure if I managed to find all their sources before rewriting, but ZMQ was one of the suspects (with a reported bug that would have explained what I have observed, IIRC), certainly less stable than plain POSIX sockets, and making it harder to localize the issue. There is plenty of open issues in the core library still [0]. It's a rather common problem with dependencies and abstractions, not ZMQ-specific, but it adds quite a bit of complexity; if it isn't necessary (or at least very useful), I think it's a good idea to avoid. For the past few years I use pipes and UNIX domain sockets for IPC between successors of those programs, and it works well.

Though I keep seeing programmers/software using both TCP and POSIX sockets wrong, making all kinds of wrong assumptions about their operation (and then there are libraries intended to simplify it, but complete with bugs too!); I think that's where HTTP abuse helps by providing a basic API (via relatively polished HTTP libraries) for basic use cases. Probably ZMQ (and other MQs) are indeed useful for that, and for some complex scenarios that one would have to implement from scratch otherwise, but I don't think it's fair to present/recommend as strictly better sockets.

It also talks about distributed P2P, which I find exciting in general, but the example it provides further in the guide only demonstrates automated reconnects and message queuing (which is potentially useful, but not a major challenge).

[0] [https://github.com/zeromq/libzmq/issues](https://github.com/zeromq/libzmq/issues)

</comment><comment><USER8> I remember a couple of years ago trying the examples on and off. It wasn't until the beginning of this year that I dedicated time (few weeks) to it and started to grok what ZeroMQ was for me and how I could do blazing fast RPC with it. I created a RPC (async/sync) library for myself in Rust, Java and Javascript that uses ZMQ under the hood. While I don't plan to open source it anytime soon, I do recommend taking some time to dedicate to play around with it and try it in your own projects.

</comment><comment><USER9> Interesting, iMatix went out of business?

</comment><comment><USER10> This article is long winded, very hyperbolic and incredibly self righteous. Take a look and tell me I'm wrong.

<comment><USER11> That was my PI's response to my own similar exhortations when I tried to sell him on using ZMQ in the laboratory context for coordinating control and data passing for time series data gathering scientific experiment equipment, so I did a proof of concept which quickly won him over and ZMQ is still there, years on, and works without complaint. Some bombast for such a minimal and powerful lib is justified. [https://github.com/zplab/rpc- scope](https://github.com/zplab/rpc-scope)

<comment><USER10> I'm with you, but this is a really poor way to engage with people.</comment></comment></comment>