New Zealand's first tech worker union - <AUTHOR> https://itbrief.co.nz/story/new-zealand-s-first-tech-worker-union <comment><USER2> Well done!

We need more collectivist status as workers, in the ICT sector. I was a member of the AUT (the UK academics union, as a researcher, it was the end-game of what had been the Association of Scientific Workers which was a nice fit) and subsequently the federated clerks (which was the general-staff union for Australian universities, but a completely terrible "fit" for me).

I'd welcome an equivalent here in Australia</comment>


Placeholder images from flickr tags - <AUTHOR>

Hi, I just created this little web app in a few hours a would like to get some feedback about how to improve it.
http://flickholdr.com allows you to get placeholder images in the size of your choice, but getting images from flickr according to the tags passed. This means you can get placeholder images that actually tie in why the theme of the site you are building.
Comments and criticism welcome!
Thanks <comment><USER2> Congratulations, this is a great idea, and nicely executed too.

A couple of thoughts: I get PHP errors if I use a search string with spaces in (something%20else).

Yahoo will probably have a problem with the name/branding if this gets popular. Changing the name would solve this, and give you room to branch out in future by pulling in images from multiple sources.

Good luck!

<comment><USER3> Thanks for the suggestion and the bug report. The bug is resolved.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> size/tag queries always return the same image. It might be useful to have size/tag/_offset_ type of a query, to diversify the placeholder images that appear on a page.

<comment><USER3> Yes, that definitely made it to my todo list! Thanks!</comment></comment>


Bill Gates says his 'greatest mistake ever' was Microsoft losing to Android - happy-go-lucky https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/24/18715202/microsoft-bill-gates-android-biggest-mistake-interview <comment><USER2> In order not to lose, Bill then would have had to be more like Bill now. Remember, back then WSL was either a submarine black ops project or non existent.

To be android, Microsoft had to embrace git, and Unix and foss. Windows then was not ready.

The windows phone not only died, it killed Nokia?

<comment><USER3> Microsoft would need to be more like Microsoft is today. Probably more than Microsoft is today as well.

People forget Microsoft had a large chunk of the Smartphone market before the iPhone changed everything. Android adapted quickly, but Microsoft already had a number of products they needed to support. There is no shame in that - <AUTHOR> did their best - and better competitors, such as Palm and their WebOS and Blackberry with their QNX-based BB10 failed as well.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> There wasn't much he could have done about it. It was company culture that doomed it.</comment>


Using Rsync and SSH - <AUTHOR> http://troy.jdmz.net/rsync/index.html <comment><USER2>
      changing the line (and what follows is just one line with badly similated
      line wrapping) from this:

        ssh-dss AAAAB3NzaC1kc3MAAAEBAKYJenaYvMG3nHwWxKwlWLjHb77CT2hXwmC8Ap...

      to this [4]:

        from="10.1.1.1",command="/home/remoteuser/cron/validate-rsync" ssh-dss AAAAB3Nza...

      [...] script that looks something like this :

      #!/bin/sh

      case "$SSH_ORIGINAL_COMMAND" in
      *\&*)
      echo "Rejected"
      ;;
      *\(*)
      echo "Rejected"
      ;;
      # ...
      rsync\ --server*)
      $SSH_ORIGINAL_COMMAND
      ;;
      *)
      echo "Rejected"
      ;;
      esac

All this and later comments is why one _should not_ use SSH for batch jobs, and for unsupervised rsync file transfer in particular. Using SSH as a transport makes too complex system, and the script above is a fine example of getting it almost correct, but not quite (not using STDERR and not signaling an error with exit code are but two things that are wrong with the script).

Wrapping rsync in stunnel ([http://dozzie.jarowit.net/trac/wiki/RsyncSSL](http://dozzie.jarowit.net/trac/wiki/RsyncSSL)) is much saner approach.</comment>


Show HN: Swap-a-Doodle, a cross-platform social drawing app - <AUTHOR> https://www.swapadoodle.com <comment><AUTHOR> Hi, all. OP / owner / founder here.

I'm finally launching a product that's taken me years longer than I'd anticipated to complete. It's a much bigger project than anything I've done before. My first app was the first battery indicator on Android, back in 2009, which was very successful by my standards (I didn't have a college degree at the time and made way more money from it than I'd ever made from a job.) I also have a free instrument tuner on the Play Store.

Swap-a-Doodle aims much higher, and was quite an undertaking for me. It's a cross-platform app (Android, iOS, and the web) for social drawing. I knew nothing about computer graphics when I started out, and just a bit about web programming. I learned so much along the way. I'm sure I'll learn a lot more as the app grows.

The front end is written in Dart. The back end is written in Go and runs on App Engine, with Compute Engine for the websocket servers for live drawing (sharing a canvas with a friend to draw together at the same time). The Android and iOS apps are fairly small wrappers around the web app.

Feel free to ask questions. I'm of course open to feedback, or I wouldn't post here — but I do feel somewhat vulnerable in this surreal moment of finally launching, so please keep that in mind and try to be kind if you do have criticism, and maybe frame it as "something that could be even better," if that's not too much of an ask. Thanks!

<comment><USER2> Why re-invent the wheel? If you're going to use Dart on the front-end surely Flutter is the obvious choice?

<comment><AUTHOR> When I first started making the app, Dart existed, but Flutter didn't. Then Flutter existed, but didn't support the web. I thought that was still true, but I just checked, and Flutter for web [[https://flutter.dev/web](https://flutter.dev/web)] _does_ now exist, as a technical preview ("When trying Flutter for web, you can expect to experience crashes and missing features.")

When Flutter came out, I looked into it, wondering if it might be worth switching my approach (I figured most of the Dart code would probably be able to stay the same). There were other deal breakers at the time, but I don't recall them.

Maybe once Flutter for web is production ready, it would make a compelling alternative, but for now it isn't an option. I'm not sure if would have made things harder or easier. But I'll be curious to check it out.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Here's an example of something really adorable made collaboratively by two people. The first person sent the first part to the second person, who used the Doodle-on-Doodle feature to add to it and make an even cuter story out of it.

[https://www.swapadoodle.com/d/5288420972691456](https://www.swapadoodle.com/d/5288420972691456)

I think 9× is the best speed to watch it at. (I'm still thinking of adding a way for the author of a Doodle to change its default speed.)

</comment><comment><USER3> Dude that's awesome. Congrats! I like its simplicity and minimal interface, with no shenanigans. Just a plain ol' drawing app that lets you share. Great stuff :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks so much! I was definitely inspired by Go's (the language I use on the back end) careful balance of well-honed simplicity. There was a lot more work than one might think to keep things so simple!

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> This is awesome. Fun and easy to pick up. Swapped-a-doodle with my technologically inept mom without a cinch. I was surprised how quickly she responded :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks so much!

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> This is cool and really easy to use! I love how it captures mistakes you make (the undo actions) when sharing it.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! Yeah, I occasionally considered _not_ including undos and redos, but there's so much positive value that easily outweighs the occasional negatives. Just a couple of the things I love about including them:

1) Much of the general idea is a sense of connection and intimacy -- it's not just the final product that you're sharing, but the process. When you see the mistakes, or the attempts to get something just right, it's a moment of connecting with the sender's experience while making it.

2) You can make emotionally evocative doodles by removing elements, so they're only present fleetingly but not present in the final image. (Examples of this are by friends I haven't thought to ask permission to share. But think: drawing a small plant, then undoing and drawing a bigger one, for several iterations, for example. You can sometimes do that by "erasing" the part you want to remove by drawing the background color, but if you want to remove something that's on top of something else, undoing is so much easier.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Fun! The basic feature feels like a cross-platform/device way of doing the iOS Messages drawing feature.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! I bought two iOS devices to develop on, but I haven't ever used the Messages app. Does it animate the drawing for the recipient, or just show the final image?</comment></comment>


Ask HN: How could a local face recognition system for a health club go wrong? - <AUTHOR> I am wary of facial recognition systems when implemented by big governments, big corporations, etc...
But I have a unique use case which would make checking into my local yoga studio so much better.
Instead of lining up to have a front desk staff member who doesn't know your name or face double check that you have enough credits left to attend a yoga class...
Imagine if you could just walk through the door, with a screen saying "Hi flyGuyOnTheSly, you have 5 classes remaining after you use this one!" and you could just walk into class.
The only angle I can think of for this kind of system going wrong would be if the "small yoga studio" grew into a "big yoga studio" or "big something else" and continued to implement and grow their facial recognition data.
But other than that, any concerns you might have would be appreciated.
Thanks for reading. <comment><USER2> This would be first of all a breach of privacy. If hacked into it could be used for surveillance, stalking and who knows what.

A better solution IMO would be to have an RFID reader that connects to a custom virtual RFID tag in your phone, and tells you all that. Android can already do this, iOS is I think on the way to be able to do it, some stuff was added in iOS 13.

<comment><USER3> These types of methods are often attempted to be used for payments but theres a bunch of practicalities in rolling them out that hurts adoption.

Id say the easiest is to give them an app where they can check their credits and geofence the yoga class so a push notification appears once you arrive.

If you really wanted to, you could display a TV displaying a live page on your website and when the geofencing is triggered it will display the persons details.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> If we extend the thought experiment a little, an insurance provider could tie up with all gyms and get the data to help them charge differential premiums depending on the basis of how many times you visit the gym and how fit you are. This could also be used by supplement manufactures to target you or athleisure brands to target you.

It's a slippery slope and the rabbit hole only goes deeper

</comment><comment><USER5> I'm not quite grasping the use case - even if the front desk staff does know your name and face, don't they still need to check your credits?

My local gym has an app with a QR code, which you just scan as you go in. This sounds like a reasonable tech solution to the actual problem. I have to imagine someone out there has packaged this kind of thing as an off-the-shelf solution.</comment>


YouTube's Plot to Silence Conspiracy Theories - 0-1 https://www.wired.com/story/youtube-algorithm-silence-conspiracy-theories/ <comment><AUTHOR> A more nuanced editorial imo:

[https://youtu.be/JTfhYyTuT44](https://youtu.be/JTfhYyTuT44)

</comment><comment><USER2> What's funny is the article starts with Flat Earth, a theory even the conspiracy crowd ridicules. There are tons of Flat Earth videos on YouTube to this day. If it's so dangerous, why not censor it site wide like all the videos questioning vaccine safety or pro vs anti-vaxxer debate videos where the anti side appears victorious? Those last only a few days at most.

It's because Flat Earth videos are not meant to be censored. They are meant to stick around no matter what so a wacky, not-believable theory can be linked to the conspiracy crowd in an attempt to discredit them. Don't believe me? Search any conspiracy themed subreddit/forum and see how many users write "this again?"

Same exact thing with Q Anon nonsense. Those videos aren't censored off YouTube, as a matter of fact they're everywhere. Why? Because the media is attempting to link concerns about something legitimate like contaminants in vaccines or hydroxychloroquine actually saving lives with something insane like Q Anon.

QAnon, the theory that Trump is actually working behind the scenes to take down the deep state and elite pedophiles from the inside. Just please everyone.. Do your part by sitting there and waiting. Take no action whatsoever. Keep faith and trust the plan. You still waiting and doing nothing? Okay perfect. This is working perfectly. Get it?</comment>


Solar power: a case study in exponential growth - <AUTHOR> http://www.theequitykicker.com/2012/09/25/solar-powera-case-study-in-exponential-growth/

<comment><USER2> "Limitless supply of energy"

Lost me there.</comment>


Steve Yegge on Steve Yegge's Amazon Google post - <AUTHOR> https://plus.google.com/110981030061712822816/posts/bwJ7kAELRnf <comment><USER2> My biggest take away from the apology:

"But as it was midnight and I am not what you might call an experienced Google+ user, by the time I figured out how to actually post something I had somehow switched accounts."

Uh, well Google: start there. I see about three things that could use some attention (Google+ adoption, usability and multi-account issues with Google and Google Apps)

<comment><USER3> Well, Google has always had internal accounts for most of the services that are tied to your Google Company account. I don't know if G+ works this way, but I would assume that the problem isn't something that G+ user would encounter until Google releases Google+ for Google Apps.

<comment><USER4> > Well, Google has always had internal accounts for most of the services that > are tied to your Google Company account.

Ironically, this is exactly one of the points that Steve made in his original post.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Imo, it speaks well of Google's culture that they have people like Yegge who like Google and also have the freedom to strongly criticize it.

Most companies (small or large) don't appreciate dissent.

<comment><USER6> I just left Google after 3 years (to build my own projects). I echo Steve's sentiment that overall, Google is a company that really tries hard to do everything the right way. It's a company full of smart, well-intentioned people. There are many of these internal discussions, all of them would be fascinating to outsiders, but it's just (un)fortunate that this one was accidentally posted.

<comment><USER7> For a total outsider it is nice to read what people inside google think.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Here's a copy of the rant: [http://siliconangle.com/furrier/2011/10/12/google- engineer-a...](http://siliconangle.com/furrier/2011/10/12/google-engineer- accidently-shares-his-internal-memo-about-google-platform/)

</comment><comment><USER9> I don't think Google will or should care about this post being public. I think Yegge was generally being really constructive and cares passionately about seeing Google move forward.

Amazon, on the other hand, might take a small hit in recruiting given the way Yegge portrayed their culture as a former insider.

</comment><comment><USER10> The unmentioned take-away here is not simply the focus on Platforms, but the reminder that 'Circles' are a weak feature to build a social network on. Why? because user's had already build organic circles across multiple social spaces (e.g. professional-only on Linkedin, perhaps family or college-safe on Facebook, close social on gmail, etc). What's the advantage to multiple platforms for multiple circles? you don't accidentally post your internal company rant to the whole world. You don't post pictures of red cups and beer bongs on Linkedin and you don't talk about work on Facebook. This is how users were operating before G+ launched, and is precisely why users aren't diving in.

</comment><comment> ryan-allen Quits on stage, retracts. Rants about lack of SOA, retracts. Third time lucky! I do like his writing and speaking though!

<comment><USER11> Quitting on stage was a misunderstanding.

He didn't retract his rant's meaning, he basically changed the privacy settings back to what he meant them for.

So no retractions at all.

</comment></comment><comment> ryan-allen This is on the frontpage of a mainstream Australian news website: "Google engineer slams Google+ as 'pathetic afterthought'"

[http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology- news/google-e...](http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/google- engineer-slams-google-as-pathetic-afterthought-20111013-1llr5.html)

<comment><USER12> Reinforces value of mainstream news. [if unclear, mainstream's value is < 0]

<comment> ryan-allen Ah, I think the significance is that if he didn't retract the essay it would not have hit the news outlets.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Haha. He must've published it on purpose, right? That seems like a Yegge thing to do. Easier to ask forgiveness than permission and all that.

</comment><comment><USER14> This oversharing problem highlights the fundamental problem with private sharing Google+ was supposed to address: users make mistakes.

<comment><USER15> Yes, but this is a problem that will only affect Google employees, not the world at large. Steve says he meant to be signed into his internal Google account, not his external Google account.

<comment><USER14> Steve made _that_ mistake. If I'm using Google+, I could accidentally select the wrong circle to share to.

<comment><USER15> Yes, but that's true of anything, right? You could accidentally misread a traffic signal and drive into the middle of oncoming traffic. But like with sharing on social news sites, you can usually recover quickly enough that it's not a big deal. Slam the brakes, delete the post, etc.

People make mistakes and no software can prevent that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> When I read the original post I thought what a great company! This kind of a culture will enable them to attack themselves before anyone else can. I'd rather have people tell me what I'm doing wrong than false, drunk on kool aid praises.

</comment><comment><USER17> Are you guys developing your products as services/platforms?

</comment><comment><USER18> Does anyone know if Amazon have responded in any way yet?

<comment><USER19> Respond to what? The ramblings of an employee who left over 5 years ago? That hardly seems necessary.

Yegge in 2006: "I was at Amazon for just under seven years, incidentally. Great place to work. I recommend it."

<https://sites.google.com/site/steveyegge2/blog-rants>

<comment><USER18> "That hardly seems necessary"

I would say there's enough fallout that damage control should have kicked in. Just look at the original thread, it's full of negativity.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Hmm, I'd consider adwords and adsense as platformization.

<comment><USER12> I'm not intimately familiar with adwords|sense. But I don't think it meets my definition of platform is something 3rd parties can build __on __not just with. Can you create an "plugin/app" that uses custom ad selection algorythm? that extends or uses the platform in ways it's creators did not imagine? is there a marketplace somewhere I can upload my "plugin/app" and others use it? etc.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> gotta say, this was a great piece. should be required reading for every kid studying cs in college, and for most corp tech managers...

</comment><comment><USER22> > _Accessibility to zero means you have no product at all, whereas dialing > Security to zero can still get you a reasonably successful product such as > the Playstation Network._

I'm hoping that was a joke. Having the government investigate you for divulging sensitive customer data disqualifies you from being "usable".

<comment><USER17> That's just Steve style...

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> Wonder if he felt like this guy. LOL You just hit reply all! <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9xGw-SWej8></comment>


Ask HN: How to get into open-source web development? - <AUTHOR>

I've been a web developer for about 4 years now, and I feel like I have a lot to learn from collaborating on open-source projects. Most of my experience is with working alone on projects, and 95% of the time I was being rushed as clients in my country don't understand that building websites takes time, and that quality matters.<p>My question is: How should I look for projects on which to contribute to over weekends? Are there chatrooms / aggregators for this sort of thing? <comment><USER2> I'm coordinating the development of Quill.org, an open source platform for writing apps. We're a nonprofit organization, and Quill is a free tool. We currently have three apps under development, and we've got 40,000 students using our grammar app.

We'd love to have your help. You can browse through some of our different projects our issues to see if you find something interesting.

Quill.org - a simple LMS for apps built in Rails: [https://github.com/empirical-org/Quill-Writer](https://github.com/empirical- org/Quill-Writer)

Quill Writer - an Angular/Firebase Writing Game: [https://github.com/empirical-org/Empirical- Wordpress](https://github.com/empirical-org/Empirical-Wordpress)

Quill Community - our wordpress community dashboard: [https://github.com/empirical-org/Empirical- Wordpress](https://github.com/empirical-org/Empirical-Wordpress)

Please email me - email@example.com, if you're interested and would like to ask some questions.

</comment><comment><USER3> I defined this for someone else who had the same question a few days ago. There are 4 ways to contribute:

\- bugs (find and report them)

\- code (the part everyone wants to do)

\- docs (the part that everyone should do, but has been given second-class status due to everyone thinking writing code is the only way to feel like you're contributing)

\- tests (ever clicked on "button" and everything broke, well if someone wrote a test for the functionality there, it likely wouldn't have)

I urge you to start with the things the pure-coders hate, and that is well- defined, noob-friendly documentation.

You'll never be given the high status of "genius programmer living in basement, changing world", but your documentation and "dumbing that shit down" way of explaining things will sometimes make the project more successful and will carry more weight as far as bringing more users of the code-base.

</comment><comment><USER4> Here are some simple ones:

* Help triage some bugs - go into a recent bug report, and confirm that the bug is real and reproducible.

* Help out fixing some bugs in the tools you use. Go into the bug tracker and find something you think you can fix. Start with something smaller/easier so you learn the process.

* Write some documentation for the tools you use.

</comment><comment><USER5> Since you've been a "web developer for about 4 years", I assume you have have gathered experience with some open source technology. Why not try to help those projects? You are already familiar with their structure, and might get an easier start. Just check thier website and start solving bugs!

</comment><comment><USER6> This isn't necessarily open-source work, but it is still opportunities to collaborate on real projects with other developers -- [https://assembly.com/](https://assembly.com/)

</comment><comment><USER7> Pick a project which is applying OSS to a community/industry/subject/problem that is meaningful and/or fun to you. In the most successful OSS projects, the developer is the user or customer.

</comment><comment><USER8> Play with some projects and discover bugs, have a look on GitHub.

</comment><comment><USER9> I would recommend picking a project that you would really personally like, maybe something that is not as messy as web development.

</comment><comment><USER10> One of those open coursewares might help If a student/woman I would suggest GSoC or OPW. That stuff helps for sure</comment>


Ask HN: Should I close SaaS product after 10 years of development? - <AUTHOR> I am a Product Owner (and a founder) of a quite large product that is used by 800+ companies around the world from small to large (largest installation is 1500 users).
Here is the context:
- It is a very competitive market with a very clear market leader (CRM -> Salesforce)
- We've bootstrapped and had organic growth (~20-30% per year till this year) and now close to 100 people in size
- This year we'll have 0% growth == stagnation.
- We are loosing more and more customers to Salesforce and annual churn rate is above 20%
- New sales are slowing down as well
- Customers complain about complexity and lack of integrations in general, but technologically the product is quite hard to change, so development speed is not great and we can't iterate fast enough.
The questions are:
#1 Is it time to sunset the product and focus on something else?
#2 Did you experience similar situations with mature product by yourself? What decisions you've made and what results you've got? <comment><USER2> Is there anything you can do to get closer to your customers and find out what you should be addressing to make them stickier? Can you find a defensible segment of the market and tweak your positioning/offering?

Would it be worthwhile to find out from those who have churned what features they miss now that they are using Salesforce. Perhaps you can port some functionality and get a larger addressable market among Salesforce customers?

<comment><AUTHOR> 1\. We have the list of things and it seems it will take 2 years to implement 80% of them

2\. Defensible segment is what we are looking for, but to be honest it is quite hard to find. Recently we've transitioned from SMB to Enterprise customers and got some deals, but overall NPS score is low among larger clients.

<comment><USER3> Why is the iteration time so high?

Which features mean the most? Can you iterate on those first?

<comment><AUTHOR> 10 y.o. monolith product is hard to modify. We are building microservices around it, but quite many modifications still should be done in core and it is slow.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Can you create it self hosted and sell it that way? This way, you compete on 2 spaces.

Self hosted and in the cloud.

<comment><AUTHOR> We do sell self hosted solutions to large customers. It helps sometime, but doesn't change the overall situation.

<comment><USER4> What about a lite package with a self hosted option like Sendy/gitlab?

How about Marketing? Can you segmentise your product and address a lot of different categories of clients? Eg. A template setup to ease starting?

Have you tried upselling some way?

I wouldn't drop the ball for a difficult year, it is however a wake up call...

In general, you can split up a small team and let them work on a revision of the product with everything you have learned. Not a big team, but a small team with a lot of domain knowledge.

But then again, these are all random ideas and your clearly > me ;)</comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: Siri, open the garage - <AUTHOR> http://delian.io/siri-open-the-garage <comment><USER2> This post got nailed by the voting ring detector, but I'm restoring it because we want to see original work on HN.

A "voting ring" is when people get friends to upvote their stuff. This is against the rules. We want stories to be on HN because they're good, not because they were promoted.

It's sadly common for a great Show HN post to get demoted because its creators, eager to get it on the front page, tried to game it. I've noticed a pattern, too: usually their gaming technique is pretty weak. Perhaps that's because they're creators, not promoters. Unfortunately, it has the side-effect of making it certain that the ring detector will nail their otherwise good post, while we carry on the usual cat-and-mouse game with people pushing crap.

I've got what I believe will be a sweet solution to this problem, but it awaits time for implementation.

Please everybody, don't ring-vote your posts; just take your chances with HN's randomness. If a post is solid and hasn't gotten any attention yet, a couple of reposts is ok. Be careful not to abuse that, though, since we penalize accounts for reposting too much.

I'm going to demote this comment as off-topic so it won't get in the way of the real discussion. Send any moderation questions to email@example.com.

<comment><USER3> Which do you think is more likely:

\- I know! We'll set up a voting ring to game my blog post about a garage door opener onto the front page of Hacker News, even though I don't get any kind of benefit aside from exposure to my cool project!

\- Hey $socialnetwork friends, check it out, I submitted last weekend's project that you helped me on to Hacker News!, followed by folks finding the link there upvoting it because it's cool.

You, and pg before you, apparently default to option 1. Even in the way you've worded this comment you are implying malicious intent, as if the author of the blog post _tried_ to game the article onto the front page. Honestly, unless there's a tangible benefit to the traffic such as advertising or leads, there's no reason to game HN and most of the "voting ring" stuff you are likely observing is organic-ish, not intentionally gamed upvotes from social sharing.

Option 2 is something I have personally observed dozens of times and you should account for it in your thinking and code.

<comment><USER4> Um, actually I believe that dang's post is him _literally_ saying that cases of Option 2 are mistakenly classified as Option 1, and that this is unfortunate. And that people should know about the voting ring detector so they don't accidentally trigger it. Oh and that in his spare time he is working on a better detector.

Having a voting ring detector is a good thing. It is no doubt hard to tell organic friendly votes apart from sophisticated voting ring bots, and lots of good posts probably get flagged for this. But without such a detector, there would be a programmatic way to ensure posts get to the top of HN, which defeats the whole voting system.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> > I then jokingly opened siri and said "Open the garage". Siri responded with > "I can't find an app named 'The Garage'". Lightbulbs went off. We realized > we could get around the fact that Siri has no API by making apps named the > phrases we'd like to recognize.

Priceless!

I wish Siri had an API though.

<comment><USER6> I feel like this has to come with iOS 8 for Apple to stay competitive against Google Now.

<comment><USER7> Also to compete with Cortana on windows phone, which lets you register voice commands to run specific apps and provide it input [1].

[1] [http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2014/2-530](http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2014/2-530) \- Integrating Your App into the Windows Phone Speech Experience

<comment><USER8> In fact apps can register for voice commands since the release of WP8. Microsoft just improved it so you don't have to register e.g. 1000 movie names to enable the WP voice recognition to understand them, but telling WP to listen for a movie name.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I did this a few years ago using text messages and Twilio. Not quite as slick as "Siri, open the garage", but it worked! [http://rumsey.org/blog/2011/11/voice-controlled-garage- door/](http://rumsey.org/blog/2011/11/voice-controlled-garage-door/)

"Siri, text house open the garage" was as close as I got.

<comment><USER10> You know, I don't hate that as a user experience. It kinda turns the house into an "intelligent" entity. "Siri, text house, I'll be home in 5 minutes" and it would turn on the lights five minutes from now or whatever you like.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> That duct tape... and electrical stuff hanging off the ceiling... makes me cringe! EEs in my dad's company used to call that kind of project an "ikebana." :-)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikebana](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikebana)

<comment><USER12> Our housemates seem to have decided that it's just over the border of the tradeoff between convenience and fear :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> A team at PennApps had a project [1] which used a DNS-override to take advantage of the fact that Siri defaults to Googling things when it doesn't have a native approach. They could then parse these requests and see if they could do something cool without before going ahead and just Googling it. The example they used in the demo was controlling a Phillips Hue light with Siri commands. I thought this was awesome, one of the better hackathon demos I've ever seen. There really should be an easier way to do this an spoofing Google DNS, which I'm not comfortable with even though I trust these guys.

1 - [http://betterthansiri.com/](http://betterthansiri.com/)

</comment><comment><USER14> Very cool hack! I would never have thought about implementing each command ("open the garage") with a specifically named app ("the garage"). I guess it'll work until you already have a (real) app called like the thing you want to open :)

An easiest way would have been to use Wit.AI API [1](disclaimer: Wit team member here). You can create any command in minutes and use any device capable to stream audio to the API (including your iPhone) as client. I'd be interested to have your feedback if you have time to check it out!

[1] [https://wit.ai/blog/2014/02/12/speech- api](https://wit.ai/blog/2014/02/12/speech-api)

</comment><comment><USER15> There is SiriProxy[1] which lets you respond to arbitrary commands by proxying requests to the Siri backend. Apparently doesn't work with iOS 7 yet unfortunately.

[1] [https://github.com/plamoni/SiriProxy](https://github.com/plamoni/SiriProxy)

</comment><comment><USER16> This is great, although it's too bad it requires such a clever twist to integrate with Siri. Cortana should shine in situations like these: [http://9to5mac.com/2014/04/02/microsofts-cortana-siri- clone-...](http://9to5mac.com/2014/04/02/microsofts-cortana-siri-clone-shows- the-potential-of-third-party-app-integration-for-the-personal-assistant/)

</comment><comment><USER17> BAD ASS!

I see in the near future a folder named "commands," on your iPhone filled with long name apps just for automation. Are you using https or some type of SSH keys to authenticate?

I know you said your running wired instead of wireless, but it sounds like you have to run some type of lightweight server to listen to the http requests. I guess you could just port forward/trigger internally through the router.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks man!

Currently it's security through obscurity... so not great. I'll make the arduino only accept requests with a token next weekend.

Yeah if you take a look at the arduino code on github it's a super light http server. Currently I just do port forwarding to access it.

<comment><USER15> Of course even if you require a token, it doesn't stop replay attacks.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Notice that saying "Siri, open the pod bay doors" doesn't work.

</comment><comment><USER19> An example using a Raspberry Pi and SiriProxy, which actually handles more than just the "open" command from a year or so back: [http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=25118](http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=25118).

<comment><USER20> I've looked into playing around with Siri for home automation stuff also but unfortunately, SiriProxy ( [https://github.com/plamoni/SiriProxy](https://github.com/plamoni/SiriProxy) ) doesn't work with iOS 7 yet ( [https://github.com/plamoni/SiriProxy/issues/542](https://github.com/plamoni/SiriProxy/issues/542) ).

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Things like that are perfectly possible without any internet-connected services with open source software like CMUSphinx. And as an addition you can get better features like continuous listening (no need to push any button), flexible vocabulary and even speaker identification (only you will be able to open the garage). I really wonder what is cool in Siri doing that.

</comment><comment><USER22> Nice hack! Could you elaborate on why arduino + ethernet shield will be a better choice than raspberry pi + wifi? I'm genuinely curious because I've been looking at both for a hardware project and would love to know the advantages (and gotchas) of both approaches. :-)

<comment><USER23> Consider Electric Imp too - very small, very cheap, wifi built in, and the web connectivity is handled for you so you don't need to set up/secure/manage an http server.

I've got one that will control my electric desk from my phone, one day soon.

<comment><USER24> The Imp seems cool, but it's price point (when combined with the breakout board) is higher than a Raspberry Pi and Usb Wifi dongle. Not only is the price higher, the hardware isn't nearly as capable.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Very cool!

I use a hack to have Siri retrieve my bank balance via a SMS. This comes in handy while in the car and you want to balance your checkbook in your head.

</comment><comment><USER26> Very cool.

But when you say "app" what exactly does that mean? Can it just be a web app that you save a shortcut to? Or is this actually a native app?

<comment><AUTHOR> In order to take advantage of the Siri "api", it has to be a native app. All the native app does is open a webview with a specific link.

Siri doesn't recognize the names of bookmarks you save to your home page.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> This is very cool, but I'm surprised a garage opener with this type of interaction doesn't already exists.

<comment><USER28> I mean, garage door remotes cost $5, the battery lasts for years, and all you do is press one button. I just can't see why you would want to make a voice- activated garage door remote.

(Integrating it into a phone is slightly more compelling)

<comment><USER12> In the case of this house specifically, most people walk/bike rather than drive, and walking around with a garage opener in your pocket isn't as nice as talking into your headphones.

<comment><USER29> Why would someone walking need to open the garage?

<comment><USER12> the door is locked and we don't carry keys :)</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Musk warns of 'summoning the demon' with AI - <AUTHOR> http://www.cnbc.com/id/102121127

<comment><USER2> When you see governments already contemplating killing people based on algorithms, you begin to empathize with Musk about calling AI a "demon" that we're summoning:

[http://www.thelocal.no/20141023/norways-killer-robot- technol...](http://www.thelocal.no/20141023/norways-killer-robot-technology- under-fire)

However right now I'm much more afraid of governments "setting loose" autonomous killer robots than I am about Skynet-like _self-conscious_ killer robots (which may be what Musk is thinking about). To the people being on the _receiving end_ of the autonomous killer robots' missiles, it won't be much difference, though. They would already be living a "Terminator-like" future, where they have to "fight the machines".

Relevant talk by Daniel Suarez:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMYYx_im5QI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMYYx_im5QI)</comment>


IEEE P7012 – Standard for Machine Readable Personal Privacy Terms - <AUTHOR> http://standards.ieee.org/develop/project/7012.html <comment><AUTHOR> According to this press release [1], this was _Initiated by Doc Searls, co- author of The Cluetrain Manifesto and author of The Intention Economy: When Customers Take Charge_

[1] [http://standards.ieee.org/news/2018/p7011_p7012.html](http://standards.ieee.org/news/2018/p7011_p7012.html)</comment>


Show HN: Flowy – A minimal JavaScript library to create flowcharts - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/alyssaxuu/flowy <comment><AUTHOR> I was surprised at the lack of any simple or straightforward libraries to create flowcharts in JavaScript, so I made my own. It's very easy to implement, and it has all the basic functionality - drag, drop, rearrange, and delete. I also included a demo of a marketing automation tool (similar to Zapier, but with flowcharts) made using the engine. Hope you find it useful!

</comment><comment><USER2> looks nice! great work! I noticed I couldn't get parallel actions to return to a single node, that might be useful that have.

<comment><AUTHOR> I kept it to a single "tree" so I could implement a simple mechanic to delete blocks - dragging and dropping them anywhere in the canvas. I also would have to take into account blocks overlapping (unless I automatically spaced them out), so at least for this release I didn't add that feature. It could definitely be implemented though :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I'm impressed - I would have found this useful many times and I really like the appearance and simplicity. This looks like high quality work.

</comment><comment> node-bayarea Looks very nice! Great job!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you!</comment></comment>


An addictive game of perspective - <AUTHOR> http://woodgears.ca/eyeball//index.html

<comment><USER2> Spotting the perspective is not that easy, at least in art, and it's first in 1400's that we understood it properly. Before Filippo Brunelleschi* most things were painted with invalid perspectives.

* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filippo_Brunelleschi#Invention_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filippo_Brunelleschi#Invention_of_linear_perspective)

</comment><comment><USER3> 9+ first try, 3.13 second, 383 third try.

Definitely addicting but too short. Should match you up against peers based off how you did in previous games.

</comment><comment><USER4> 3.75; I'm surprised, as I consider myself to have a poor eye for these things.

</comment><comment><USER5> This highlights why I'm no good at billiards.

</comment><comment><USER6> 4.62 first try. Higher than I expected

</comment><comment><USER7> 3.07 first try, got it down to 2.35

</comment><comment><USER8> Hmm. 4. Guess I'm no one special.

</comment><comment><USER9> very frustrating with a bad mouse

</comment><comment><USER10> 2.59, woo

</comment><comment><USER11> 7

</comment><comment><USER12> I got 9.26 at first try

<comment><USER13> 12.60, but I didn't know what I was doing in the first few.</comment></comment>


Pa. Legislature site uses IE logo to denote HTML links to bill text - <AUTHOR> https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/billinfo/billinfo.cfm?syear=2019&sind=0&body=H&type=B&bn=0544 <comment><USER2> And Reddit uses Chrome's icon to represent continuing to the desktop site instead of the app...both only slightly irritating.

For the State website, is there a better 'HTML' icon that's as widely recognized?</comment>


Amber Rudd to announce crackdown on dark web - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/apr/11/amber-rudd-crackdown-dark-web <comment><USER2> She talks a very big talk there about cracking down on "the dark web" but reading between the lines it seems like they really only are implementing more officers to help with local victims of fraud.

The non local officers might be doing something more (perhaps stings or something) but this mainly looks like a lot of polish around allotting a very small amount of money (9m pounds is not very much for a nation) for a handful of extra officers to help fraud victims.

</comment><comment><USER3> I dearly hope they focus on dark web use that is associated with actual harm, but in all likelihood they will focus on attention grabbing drug busts.

<comment><USER4> "A dark and dangerous place where anonymity emboldens people to break the law in the most horrifying of ways. A platform of dangerous crimes and horrific abuse. A sickening shopping list of services and products are available."

I'd just go ahead and count on scare tactics.</comment></comment>


Putting some MVC meat into your app: Backbone.js - <AUTHOR> http://blog.appfog.com/putting-some-mvc-meat-into-your-app-backbone-js/

<comment><USER2> Thanks!! Nice to see Backbone getting some love...</comment>


Massive new data set suggests economic inequality is about to get even worse - <AUTHOR> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/01/04/massive-new-data-set-suggests-inequality-is-about-to-get-even-worse <comment><USER2> It'd be nice if the article this news story bases it's premise around ([https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C38&q=%22...](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C38&q=%22the+rate+of+return+on+everything%22&oq=the)) wasn't a non-peer reviewed working paper that self-cited unpublished research.

<comment><USER3> That would be far too close to careful journalism in the empirical tradition. Can't you see we're in the middle of a culture war, and we need articles on the front-line every 24 hours?

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I don't see how income inequality can change without higher taxes on the rich. The middle class earns 10 spends 10. The rich earn 100 spends 20 is taxed 20 invests the remaining 60. So next year middle class earns the same 10 the rich earn 100+investment returns. Add inflation and the middle class each year looses purchasing power and more wealth shifts to upper class. It's simple math and the way the tax systems in most of the world work is not going to change.

<comment><USER5> The middle class is quite capable of investing in the stock market. 50% of Americans own stock.

<comment><USER6> This story suggests (to me) that number is high, rapidly decreasing, and somewhat misleading, since it includes people with any level of 401k/similar. What's your source?

[http://www.businessinsider.com/why-so-few-millennials- invest...](http://www.businessinsider.com/why-so-few-millennials-invest-in- the-stock-market-2016-7)

<comment><USER5> I read in the Seattle Times recently, sorry I don't remember the particular article. The figure did include indirect investments, such as via pension plans.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I've often wondered when the cognitive dissonance between belief in the promise of achievable prosperity, and the reality of a vanishingly small chance of achieving it, would become too much to bear for an armed and increasingly dispossessed populace.

<comment><USER5> With a hundred bucks anyone can start an investment program in stocks. In contrast, I saw on the news the other day that the average lottery ticket "investor" puts in $250/yr, and lottery investors skew heavily towards lower income people.

$100 in the S&P 500 last January would be worth $120 today. And low income people are pretty much exempt from capital gains taxes.

The democratization of the ability to invest in companies like Microsoft and Amazon is one of the great opportunities that exist in America today.

<comment><USER8> And given that these people are willing to invest in lottery tickets, what's the odds that they'll make good stock market investors?

<comment><USER5> Given that monkeys randomly throwing darts seem to do better than professionals, I'd say the odds are very good they'll do better than the lottery.

The ROI (Return On Investment) for lottery tickets is negative 53%.

[https://www.theawl.com/2012/02/how-much-can-you-expect- as-a-...](https://www.theawl.com/2012/02/how-much-can-you-expect-as-a-return- on-that-2-powerball-ticket/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> >if you were a typical investor

I'm not sure what "typical investor" means in this context. Shoveling money away in a diversified account and never touching it? Investment practices aren't static and have changed quite a bit over the time measured.

Even if investment practices were static you still need to factor in human emotion to investing. It's easy in retrospect to see "If I kept my money in a diversified market I would have received +x% over y time".

But humans don't think this way. Day to day events have much more influence on how someone makes a decision than long term forecasts.

The Great Depression wasn't just a slow down to our economy, many people believed capitalism was coming to an end. This happened weeks after one of the strongest bull market periods in United States history.

If you were to travel back in time and tell someone on Black Tuesday "don't worry, use dollar cost averaging and you'll be rich in 90 years" they would think you were insane.

This research also fails to recognize most millionaires in that time period were immigrants from poor families. Their frugality and tolerance for high risk entrepreneurial activities is what made them wealthy to begin with. Trustfund children rarely make as much as their parents. They settle for low risk careers like "doctor" or "lawyer" which pay high salaries but do not generate large sums of wealth. They also tend to be UAWs (Under Accumulator of Wealth).

"A $250,000 per year doctor is an "Under Accumulator of Wealth" if his/her net worth is less than the product of their age and one tenth of his/her realized pretax income." - The Millionaire Next Door

</comment><comment><USER10> And Republicans want to give more tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires.

<comment><USER5> Lowering corporate tax rates helps stock values, and 50% of Americans own stock directly or indirectly (via pension plans).

<comment><USER8> What about the other half?

<comment><USER5> It was in reply to the person who implied breaks were only for millionaires and billionaires, unless one believes that 50% of Americans are millioniares.

See my other post in this thread on this topic about the democratization of stock investing in America. Of course, one must also choose to invest in stocks as opposed to, say, lottery tickets.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I still fail to see how "economic inequality" is a bad thing.

If you accept that we will never be equal (aka aren't a communist) then the question becomes, what is a "good" level of inequality? How do you determine that? Does inequality increasing actually mean anything?

I'd argue inequality is quite meaningless. Especially on a national basis. Everyone can be equally poor, what good did lower inequality do then? Why focus on inequality instead of something like poverty? As Louis CK tells his daughter in an episode of Louis "The only time you look in your neighbor's bowl is to make sure that they have enough. You don't look in your neighbor's bowl to see if you have as much as them."

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jtxuy- GJwCo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jtxuy-GJwCo)

<comment><USER12> > I still fail to see how "economic inequality" is a bad thing.

It's a bad thing because it is an objective fact that it is a source of human suffering. You might have a moral or aesthetic preference that humans _should not_ respond to inequality that way, but that is no more meaningful than a belief that they should not adversely react to oxygen deprivation.

<comment><USER11> Is it? I would love to see the proof of that. Afghanistan has one of the lowest Gini coefficients in the world. So inequality doesn't seem to be their problem.

<comment><USER12> You can look at the large body of work in the field of relative deprivation then; there's strong evidence that it is a powerful factor for most in developed countries, and it some evidence that it also is outside of the worst-off in less developed countries, but the poorest in LDCs seem to have absolute deprivation dominant as a source of disutility. (The research on LDCs is thinner and more recent, as historically most of the work has been done in relatively developed countries.)

<comment><USER11> Sounds like envy to me. Which doesn't really seem like something we as a society should cater to. Instead people should learn to either be happy with what they have, or actively attempt to make steps to improve their life. There is no option to take from others for your own benefit or the supposed benefit of others, as that is theft.

But let's say that's just not how the world is, envy is certainly a very real human emotion. What level of inequality is necessary to cause broad social unrest? Do we have anything close to a situation like in Venezuela?

It is really cool how you are telling me to do the legwork and make your argument for you. Definitely productive.

<comment><USER12> > Sounds like envy to me. Which doesn't really seem like something we as a > society should cater to.

I'll repeat what i said before, anticipating exactly this line: You might have a moral or aesthetic preference that humans should not respond to inequality that way, but that is no more meaningful than a belief that they should not adversely react to oxygen deprivation.

> It is really cool how you are telling me to do the legwork and make your > argument for you.

If you need a simple starting point that is freely available online, _Income Satisfaction and Relative Deprivation: An Empirical Link_ , D'Ambrosio, C. & Frick, J.R. Soc Indic Res (2007) 81: 497. [https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Conchita_DAmbrosio/publ...](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Conchita_DAmbrosio/publication/225714229_Income_Satisfaction_and_Relative_Deprivation_An_Empirical_Link/links/57557c6208ae10c72b66a279.pdf)

But it's a big area of research, and if you are genuinely unfamiliar with it and concerned at all with economic development and related public policy, you are going to want to spend some time with the area

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Can't say I'm surprised...my amateur investor tip is to buy stocks that cater to the emerging poor or super rich and short or avoid anything in between. There's a reason Dollar General has been rallying ($DG)...

I'm long CVS ($CVS) for the same reason...especially after having bought Aetna I predict their "Minute Clinic" concept will cater to the emerging poor that will become increasingly sensitive to rising healthcare costs for acute care at traditional urgent care/hospital settings...

</comment><comment><USER14> I guess this is one way to summarize the idiom - It takes money to make money.

</comment><comment><USER15> okay, silicon valley: disrupt income inequality. find a way to get rich by un- riching the rich.

<comment><USER16> See this is the sort of comment that makes me feel like people get upset about economic inequality, rather than poverty, because poverty truly is not what they see as the problem.

<comment><USER17> The money has to come from somewhere! And all the wealth generation attributed to government practices goes by far into pockets of the rich. Reducing income inequality is the only trickle-down economics that works.</comment></comment></comment>


Need help from HN to get this Windows7 bug fixed - <AUTHOR> http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-files/windows-explorer-expands-folders-inappropriately/50a81b05-da98-4d55-821d-55ffbbd0e998

<comment><AUTHOR> This is extremely bad behaviour and Microsoft response is the usual "by design" I'm not sure how to get Microsoft attention, please help!</comment>


Author of cURL denied entry to the USA - <AUTHOR> https://twitter.com/bagder/status/879198063998513152 <comment><USER2> This may be unpopular on an US-centric site like HN, but the US looks more and more like they want to isolate themselves from the rest of the world: very strict immigration policy, travelers molested by TSA on airports, ...

These conferences where people around the world meet should start to be hosted somewhere else. Not in the USA anymore. Somewhere in a country that welcomes people instead of treating all of them like possible threats.

Just organize All Hands in Berlin next year. Or Barcelona, or Munich, or Stockholm, or Amsterdam, or whatever. Just not the US anymore. Americans don't want foreigners on their soil. Or at least everything looks that way from the outside. Let them be that way.

<comment><USER3> As someone who just filled out their DS-160 visa application and paid money for the application and now being left alone due to the new "travel ban" (wife and mother in law Iranian) I just say: let this country be alone for a while. I don't know when the US government (and the voters) will gain back consciousness and be part of the international community again in a positive way. Other countries are much more open right now: Germany, France, Canada... and they even all have working Internet! And there is even no strong need to reside in the US to do online business there, as the big platforms (Appstores...) are open for most other countries.

<comment><USER3> I say those words as probably the biggest USA-fanboy one could imagine, the guy who defended almost any obscure US policy. But right now, I can not do this any more. I can live with the liberals, I can live with the conservatives, but I can not live with aggressive political stupidness.

<comment><USER4> Were at least stuck with this stupidity for 4 years. A financial crash is probably due in that time.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> My guess would be that the US found some dodgy software that happened to make use of cURL, add flagged him as part of it, given what he's previously said about receiving emails from people that have found his details in other software: [https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2016/11/14/i-have-toyota- corola/](https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2016/11/14/i-have-toyota-corola/)

<comment><USER6> Except if that were so they'd just routinely stop him on arrival instead. We've had countless stories of programmers being interviewed crossing borders and offered deals. There was one on HN just last week about a programmer tweeting about being approached, but I can't find that story.. but its their MO.

Do-Not-Fly is for people they fear might blow up the plane before it arrives in the US.

<comment><USER7> Wouldn't he not be given a visa in the first place if he was such a suspect?

<comment><USER8> Swedes can get a visa waiver automatically within a few minutes online by using an online form.

<comment><USER9> ESTA is not entirely automatic. He could have been denied it; in fact, he probably will be denied it the next time he tries to get the ESTA, if he ever does. He will then have to go through the non-waiver visa procedure.

However, you only have to renew ESTA once every two years, not every time you fly. The DHS might have "discovered" whatever they discovered only recently.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> My feeling is that I read stories like these pretty often. That somebody was denied entry or arrested or humiliated while entering the USA. Is this because it happens more often in the USA then in other countries? Or is there some kind of reporting bias at play?

<comment><USER11> It's a bias (not sure how it's called, maybe a type of "survivor bias")

You don't hear about the thousands admitted without an issue in the US every day. But of course those that aren't admitted show up here

May I also note some (tech people) display an increased level of naiveté in dealing with border people.

<comment><USER12> _You don 't hear about the thousands admitted without an issue in the US every day. But of course those that aren't admitted show up here_

Yes, but that bias applies to every country, it doesn't justify the US bias of these reports.

<comment><USER11> Correct, even a small percentage is indicative of an issue

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I was denied entry once, and I am a frequent flyer.

It was at Calgary's airport. I was called out for a search. Then, border security guys spent an hour having coffee and my plane flew away. I came to them and made them have a very unpleasant conversation with me for the next hour.

They summoned their higher up, who came with an official entry refusal with no reason stated, citing that he has no obligation to give one.

The bastard had a badge with name R. Torres on it.

Nevertheless, I flew the next day on the same airline.

</comment><comment><USER14> Just to balance the narrative here a bit, I have traveled into and out of the US many times per year for around 15 years with no problems on an ESTA. I only recently switched to a visa.

After a long flight having to deal with the delay and hassle of immigration seems much worse than it is. I really hate it, and the comments here suggest others do too, but if you look at what we have to deal with objectively it's not really that horrible.

It feels weird for me to be defending them, because of the crappy experiences over the years, but when it comes down to it I think CBP are far more reasonable than they are given credit for because of the crappy environment it happens in. If you were calmly asked the same questions by a sweet guy or girl on a chaise longue while being offered champagne and strawberries, people would have almost no problem even though it's really the same thing without the elevated stress level.

Regarding Daniel - like others here I'm sure it's because cURL has been used extensively for bad purposes he was kicked off the ESTA program. Yes it sucks that they didn't let him know in advance, and they didn't have the smarts to figure that he had nothing to do with the bad actors.

For me getting a visa was a pretty easy process. The interviewer in my country was a smart political science graduate and everything went smoothly. An inconvenience for sure, but hey this is another sovereign nation, why should us foreigners expect to be able to march in without playing by their rules, even if we don't agree with them.

Don't get me wrong - this situation sucks for Daniel and US immigration has massive room for improvement.

<comment><USER15> > cURL has been used extensively for bad purposes

What?! Sources please.

<comment> m-j-fox I mean, I've personally used it to access APIs from shell scripts that would have been far more maintainable in a proper Python script.

<comment><USER16> That's three counts of conspiracy to degrade system maintainability, manufacturing tooling with intent to degrade system maintainability, possession of tooling to degrade system maintainability, one count of international travel with intent to degrade system maintainability, two counts of manufacture of false documents[0][1] in support of a conspiracy. Bail denied. And... that's life.

[0] Exhibit A: _man curl_

[1] _CURL website_

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Considering the various "terrorist watch lists" are basically vaguely defined names and anyone can get added trivially, without review, and without a way to challenge[1], is anyone really surprised? When it's bad enough that a sitting US Senator was stopped and interrogated because "T Kennedy" was on the list[2], we passed that absurdity threshold a long time ago.

1 - [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/25/terrorist-watch- lis...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/25/terrorist-watch- list_n_5617599.html)

2 - [http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/no-fly-mistakes- cat-s...](http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/no-fly-mistakes-cat-stevens- ted-kennedy-john-lewis/index.html)

</comment><comment><USER18> "Don't assume malice when stupidity is an adequate explanation."

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor)

<comment><USER19> My exact thoughts. The bureaucracy/machinery is so complex that it could have been any minor error in the paperwork.

For a person, this is their worst day. For a huge bureaucracy, nothing.

<comment><USER20> Quite possible there's some Scandinavian criminal that happens to have the same name, for example.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> He himself says that he does not know the reason why. It could be because of his involvement in cURL, it could be a mix-up, it could be any reason, really. As long as there is no official statement or any other formal reason, this all remains speculative and consequently unfit for solid arguments against the US immigration policy in this specific case.

Disclaimer: I am a European citizen and by no means in favor of recent immigration policy changes of the US.

</comment><comment><USER15> Recently EU parliament voted to introduce visas for US citizens due to unequal treatment of EU countries. "About f __ _ing time ", I though. Few months pass and I read that EU Commission will do _nothing*. I hate those bureaucrats in the EU.

EU should retaliate (not of malice, just to force equal treatment). It's not a visa waiver if you can be denied entry so easily, as many people are. And of course not all EU countries are eligible.

<comment><USER22> I understand your sentiment and the reaction.

But I think it would be wrong to have an eye-for-eye-approach. US Citizens should see, how easy it can be to travel to a country, without jumping through hoops like ESTA. They should feel wrong why they force it onto others but enjoy the freedom to travel easily.

Otherwise nothing will change. It's easy to start a "oh, they do it to us, let's annoy them even more" spiral and that would really, really suck.

<comment><USER23> > "US Citizens should see, how easy it can be to travel to a country, without > jumping through hoops like ESTA."

They have been seeing it all this time, yet this is what you get.

<comment><USER24> Change takes time. It's a complex problem deeply rooted in fear, mongered by people who now successfully occupied the White House.

In the mean time, I agree, probably a simpler yet more aggressive tit-for-tat approach would be more fruitful.

<comment><USER15> Nothing has been done about unequal treatment of EU countries in the past decade. Don't you think this is long overdue?

For EU it should be a matter of principle and backbone. They simply don't have them. EU has proven several times that they will look the other way as long as it benefits larger members.

<comment><USER24> Agreed.

I think the prime example of this is the common energy policy, that then Germany regularly fucks up with the OPAL pipeline deals with Putin.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> Capt-RogerOver He seems to have tried to enter USA using ESTA. ESTA is not a visa, it's a visa-waiver program. It's specifically created as an easier method of entering a country, but as a trade-off, it says in the terms that they can deny it for any reason with no questions. This does not mean that the person cannot enter the country per se, it just means they need to apply for a real visa.

<comment><USER25> I do not get your point. The ESTA is the only way to get to the country if you're going to a conference or on holidays or to visit someone.

If you're looking for better, you need to find a job to sponsor you and you need to go through the lottery (H1B). Or you need to work for a US company abroad for more than a year (L1). Or you need to get married with an american person.

<comment><USER26> You can absolutely get a B-1 or B-2 visa. Only VWP-eligible country citizens are even eligible to get an ESTA in the first place.

[https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/visit/visitor.html](https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/visit/visitor.html)

You fill out a DS-160 and go through the process, but you don't _have_ to get an ESTA. You are always allowed to apply for a full visa instead.

More succinctly, click the "May I apply for a visa instead of using the VWP?" question on this page: [https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/visit/visa- waiver-...](https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/visit/visa-waiver- program.html)

<comment><USER25> You can get a B-1 or B-2 visa if you're not on the list of countries eligible for an ESTA.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> There's a good chance that if automated software is at least partly responsible for this, that cURL was probably used somewhere in the intelligence pipeline. Rather ironic if that is the case.

<comment><USER28> I should make a low level utility and in the license prohibit governments from denying me entry.

<comment><USER29> That clause of the license probably wouldn't hold up in court though.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> On a related note, the visa issuing system of the US sucks. I was denied a tourist visa and then issued one on reapplication in a matter of 5 days. The process is highly irregular since absolutely nothing changed between the two 30 seconds interviews except the interviewer. The only inconvenience was I had to reschedule my YC interview and throw away an additional $300 in visa form and travel cost.

</comment><comment><USER31> Trouble is: to save face they'll just stonewall him indefinitely rather than investigating, admitting a mistake and removing him from the list.

</comment><comment><USER6> Its easy to speculate that if the feds wanted to speak to him on something computer-related he'd be let travel to the US and interviewed on arrive.

The "Do Not Fly" list is usually for suspected terrorists.

Perhaps it was just a name-match? The wikipedia article [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List) says:

> Many individuals were "caught in the system" as a result of sharing the > exact or similar name of another person on the list

However, there are at least 82 "Daniel Stenberg"s in Sweden (and I'm surprised its not considerably higher that that!) [https://personer.eniro.se/resultat/Daniel%20Stenberg](https://personer.eniro.se/resultat/Daniel%20Stenberg)

<comment><USER32> First of all, there's no reason to think that it's a "Do Not Fly" list. He says that he did the US border control checks in his local airport. That is quite common (at least in Europe) when flying to the US and just means that they check your visa (or visa-waiver in this case) at home instead of after physically getting to the US[0]

I live in Ireland and at almost every (all?) flight from Dublin to the US you do the US border control check here to the point where they don't even check your passport on arrival.

Second, there really is plenty of people with problems like that. A friend of mine travels frequently to the US and his name is the same as a relatively well known drug lord (it's a fairly common name, too). As far as I know, he's never been denied entrance to the US, but he routinely gets flagged, separated, his identity verified and his luggage checked. Usually, all it means is that when he travels with colleagues or family, they have to wait for him for an extra hour or two to get out of the airport.

[0] I think that, technically, the area of the local airport where they do that is considered US soil and, for all legal purposes, you are in the US. As I said, not sure about this and I might be completely wrong, but that's what the signs lead me to think.

<comment><USER33> Sweden currently does not have any pre-clearance airports (which is what you describe for Dublin). The check here was most likely only done by the airline itself using a system supplied by the US authorities for checking ESTA validity.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> What puzzles me is that the ESTA application was approved in the first place. If they were going to deny him entry, why approve it?

Could there be a more benign explanation for this issue? For example: his ESTA approval expired (it's valid for two years), or the data entered on the ESTA form did not exactly match his passport data (special characters, middle names, etc.)

<comment><USER35> The online ESTA form does not "approve" someone to enter the US. The online ESTA form is required to determine if you're in a population that's generally eligible for visa-free entry (so that the airline and other systems know whether to require a visa for you).

Filling out the ESTA form does not grant a visa, does not grant the right to enter the US, and does not even guarantee you'll be allowed onto the plane. It simply says "Yes, you appear to be a citizen of a country which, in general, has visa-free entry to the US".

<comment><USER33> This is simply not true (I posted the exact message it shows you at the end of the process somewhere else in this thread – it explicitly contains the phrase "approved and authorized to travel").

Yes, it does not guarantee you entry. However, it does much more than just to check whether you have a required nationality. If that were all, the system weren't needed. Practically every country has visa-free entry for some nationalities and such travel authorisation systems are very rare among them. Airline know how to check if you have one of the visa-free nationalities and do so every day everywhere in the world (probably much more reliable than having the travel fill out a form, too – they even check again in the case of the US, as we see in this example). The US introduced the ESTA system much later than visa-free travel for certain nationalities.

<comment><USER35> And as I said in my other reply to you: _the wording you are citing is terrible and inaccurate and you should never, ever, ever, EVER, rely on it as an exhaustive legally-binding declaration_.

<comment><USER33> This reply was not at all about the wording but about the fact that the system does more than just checking whether "you appear to be a citizen of a country which, in general, has visa-free entry to the US". If that were all, it would be useless.

Unfortunately as a non-US citizen I have to rely on the system. The alternative would be getting a B1/B2-visa but this doesn't change the fact that I could still be denied entry. (Of course this is the same, I could be denied entry to any non-EU country if they wish so.)

<comment><USER35> Citizenship is the primary determinant of ESTA, because ESTA is the feeder of the Visa Waiver Program which in turn is based entirely on citizenship. Everything else in ESTA is largely just duplicating requirements that would be imposed without ESTA (such as remaining validity of passport, whether you have a return ticket, purpose of visit, etc.).

<comment><USER33> The Visa Waiver Program was in place before ESTA was introduced. Before that, the airline took a look at your passport and then a list of allowed nationalities. Having the traveller fill out an online form does not change this requirement.

<comment><USER35> ESTA is the system which determines eligibility for the Visa Waiver Program. That is the sole and entire purpose of ESTA. That is why ESTA was created. Your comment that VWP existed earlier is not a disproof of this and has zero relevance. As such, your mention of that gives an extremely strong indication that you do not in fact understand what it is you are arguing about.

ESTA's purpose is to determine eligibility for VWP. VWP is based on citizenship of a participating country.

All other things asked for and evaluated by ESTA are things which any traveler, entering via any legal means, can and usually will also be evaluated on. For example, ESTA will usually verify that you have a passport which is valid for at least six months beyond your scheduled date of departure from the United States. This is not a unique requirement that ESTA, only ESTA, and nothing else anywhere other than ESTA imposes. A minimum amount of remaining passport validity is an incredibly common requirements, not just of the United States but of practically every country in the world.

<comment><USER33> I feel like I am repeating myself. When ESTA was introduced, only a single requirement was added: "You need to fill out that online form". Somehow, the eligibility was determined before it was introduced. The things you list (nationality, passport validity, ...) are all easily checked before boarding by airlines. This happens everywhere in the world, for all kinds of destinations. An online form is not a reliable way to determine your citizenship anyway.

You seem to be unaware that even if you fulfil the formal requirements, ESTA applications can and are being denied by the system (and are sometimes checked by hand which can take a few days). This can have all kinds of reasons. I know at least two persons that were denied their ESTA even though they ticked off all the requirements. Both later got a B1/B2 visa without any trouble.

<comment><USER35> Yes, somehow eligibility was determined before ESTA existed. Now ESTA exists, and ESTA is the thing that determines eligibility.

I do not see how this is relevant in any way, or even what it is you are trying to tell me I'm wrong about, because every time I tell you how the system works you go running off to some irrelevant other thing. Please either explain clearly what point you are trying to make, or stop.

<comment><USER33> This sounds like something Gogolian bureaucrats would say. "The purpose of filling out form A38 is to have form A38 filled out." Modern bureaucracy usually doesn't introduce requirements for the heck of it. Checking citizenship worked fine before the introduction of ESTA so "checking citizenship" was not the reason the system was introduced or is still in place. It does that as well but that is not the _point_ of ESTA. This is all I wanted to tell you.

<comment><USER35> The fact that the visa waiver program existed earlier has absolutely no relevance. Was there a way to check requirements prior to ESTA being created? Yes. But _now_ , ESTA is the way requirements are checked for the visa waiver program. That is the purpose for which ESTA exists and for which it was created. That is ESTA's job. That is what ESTA does. ESTA is not some separate data-gathering or visa-issuing system; its sole and entire purpose for existing is to be the thing which, now -- and yes, once upon a time a system existed for this which was not ESTA, but that is not relevant because now ESTA is the thing which does this, because it is possible for one thing to replace another thing -- checks requirements for the visa waiver program.

So, hopefully you will finally, for the love of all that is holy, agree that ESTA is the thing which checks requirements for the visa waiver program. The visa waiver program is tied ultimately to one, exactly one, and only one thing: "Are you a citizen of a country designated as part of the Visa Waiver Program? (Yes/No)".

Everything else is secondary to that. Everything else is details. Everything else is bureaucratic requirements like checking how long it'll be until your passport expires or looking for red flags like not having a return ticket, and those things get checked on everybody, even people who are getting visas. Meanwhile, _citizenship of a visa-waiver country is the sine qua non of the visa waiver program and thus is the sine qua non of ESTA "approval" since ESTA's sole purpose is to check the requirements of the visa waiver program_.

<comment><USER33> Usually if things are replaced for another there is a reason. If you arguments are not your thing, I can only appeal to authority, namely the people that created the system in the first place:

        The Conference agrees on the need for significant
        security enhancements to the entire Visa Waiver Program as set
        forth in the Senate bill and to the implementation of the
        electronic travel authorization system prior to permitting the
        Secretary to admit new countries under his new waiver
        authority. The Conference mandates that the Secretary develop
        such an electronic travel authorization system to collect
        biographical and such other information from each prospective
        Visa Waiver Program traveler necessary to determine whether the
        alien is eligible to travel under the program and whether a law
        enforcement or security risk exists in permitting the alien to
        travel to the United States. The Conference believes the
        Secretary should check the information collected in the
        electronic travel authorization system against all appropriate
        databases, including lost and stolen passport databases such as
        that maintained by Interpol. The Conference believes that
        checking travelers from Visa Waiver Program countries against
        all appropriate watch lists and databases will greatly enhance
        the overall security of the Visa Waiver Program.

[https://www.congress.gov/congressional-report/110th- congress...](https://www.congress.gov/congressional-report/110th- congress/house-report/259/1)

As you see, the main stated purpose is not the check citizenship but to query various databases in advance.

(For completeness I want to add that nowadays "You haven't travelled to some countries" is another requirement to use the VWP. The ESTA application also asks for things visa applications do not, such as the names of your social media accounts.)

<comment><USER35> You are interpreting my statement as "there are literally no other questions on the ESTA form other than citizenship and that's the only thing it looks at". That is not what I said, and you need to stop assuming that's what I said.

ESTA exists to check eligibility for the visa waiver program. The primary criterion of the visa waiver program is... your citizenship. Everything else is secondary. All that stuff in your big quote? It's stuff that the US wants to check on _everybody_. The fact that ESTA checks it does not mean that ESTA is suddenly not a gatekeeper for the visa waiver program, or that ESTA is doing special extra checks above and beyond anything else, or that ESTA is somehow secretly doing something other than visa-waiver eligibility. The fact that ESTA checks it simply means that _everybody_ , including people eligible for visa waiver, will get checked on those things. The difference between visa waiver and non-visa-waiver is not whether those checks are done; it's what country you're a citizen of. ESTA checks those other things because they have to be checked no matter what, and doing them in the same form makes things more efficient. Period.

<comment><USER33> I never claimed that citizenship is not the main criteria for the VWP. But just because it is does not mean that everything that feeds into the VWP has "citizenship" as a main purpose. If that were then nobody would have gone through the trouble of creating ESTA. The checks that were in place before were sufficient for that purpose. There were no complaints about that. You can't just look at things in a vacuum as if there was no world before today. Just because something on the surface has one main task does not mean it was mainly created to perform that task.

The reason ESTA exists is, as you correctly note, that the US wants to do certain checks on everybody, including VWP travellers. Before the introduction of ESTA they could not easily do that. Now they can. The reason they ask for citizenship on the same form is then done for efficiency (to check all the main eligibility criteria as well).

The fact that ESTA collects data and later allowed to easily add additional criteria for the VWP and to collect a fee, was certainly not unwelcome by the creators (but this is not why it was designed).

Why have I even started to reply in the first place? Your original comment states

\- "The online ESTA form is required to determine if you're in a population that's generally eligible for visa-free entry (so that the airline and other systems know whether to require a visa for you)." (it is not required to do that as history before its introduction shows – there are alternatives to do that just as effectively)

\- "It simply says 'Yes, you appear to be a citizen of a country which, in general, has visa-free entry to the US'" (no, it states much more as evidenced by the fact that countless of citizens of VWP nations get denied their ESTA application)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> Sorry for your troubles. In many blue states that didn't vote Trump, our votes are worth 25% of the votes of some red states. Not our fault- what was implemented to make it fair to small states is now a menace to the large states. Demagogues that cater to the GOP agenda manipulate the red-state populace like 3rd world dictators.

Our only hope is for the next Dem Presidential candidate to be sensible but also capable of charming or hoodwinking the red states in some way. I thought Bernie would be good, but he's too honest. We need someone like Bill Clinton again.

<comment><USER25> Oh this has been going on before Trump took leadership.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> Stop traveling to the US people. They treat you like shit, and they're gonna keep treating you like shit until they start losing money.

Arrange these conferences somewhere else.

</comment><comment><USER38> The no explanation is the worst part for anything like this. Impossible to determine what to do or what reason they had, just denied. It's not just the government either, look at how some tech companies have a policy of providing no explanation for interview rejections too. It's a lack of respect for anyone but oneself.

<comment><USER39> _> no explanation for interview rejections too. It's a lack of respect for anyone but oneself._

Nothing personal Ajeet, but: for the love of God, can this trope _please_ die? It has been widely, extensively, repeatedly, incessantly established every single time this comes up: they do it because of the unreasonably high risk of being sued. If the cards are stacked against you, the wisest move is not to play. This has nothing to do with respect. It is the logical move in an unfair game.

Otherwise I agree with your post. Even that the frustration must feel similar to silent job interview rejection. I'm just getting tired of seeing this "no respect" point over and over and over and over here. My eyes are bleeding.

Sorry for the expletive.

<comment><USER38> Not personal at all, I don't for the most part need to participate in the 'game' anymore thankfully, but I still think in specific situations, perhaps a junior dev failing a technical white board interview, if they ask for feedback it should be given, otherwise they have no way of knowing what went wrong or how to improve. It takes five minutes. Being afraid of being sued is a lame excuse. I know 15 years ago it would have accelerated my career, nowadays it doesn't matter.

Don't you think Daniel Stenberg should have a way of determining on what grounds he was denied and what he can do about it?

<comment><USER39> Yes for Daniel, no for companies. Either we protect them (at least slightly) more from lawsuits, OR we accept their silence. I honestly don't mind which. But it's one or the other. We make the rules, as people.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> Denied before boarding? I'd first level blame at the airline / CBP connection, rather than a DNF entry or change to ESTA status. Curious to hear what happens.

Ironic, as someone pointed out on Twitter, that likely cURL is probably used somewhere in the chain of communication!

<comment><USER41> I wrote some software for police at some moment. Years later I was visiting police station and I saw them using my software to check me. It was interesting experience.

<comment><USER42> I worked on a state government transparency project once. It lists everything the government spends money on, including the companies they contract to do things, it was interesting seeing how much the company was making from that project and how much I was getting paid.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> Would it be possible to change the license of cURL to one that denies usage inside the US? :P

<comment><USER44> If you have control of the copyright, yes, you _could_ change the license from straight GPL to any kind of customized license you want. I guess you _could_ restrict access to any group you want. But if it's open source, it would be pretty difficult to enforce your policy.

Even if you closed the source, ruining it for linux, what good would that do? The cat is out of the bag already. Anybody could just use the existing open source and fork it further as they wish.

<comment><USER45> > But if it's open source, it would be pretty difficult to enforce your > policy.

So, two things: (1) a license that discriminates against a particular group is not open source, (2) being open source or not has nothing to do with whether enforcing the license will be difficult. Enforcing the license is just a matter of the resources available to the copyright holders. Many proprietary licenses are routinely violated, some free and open source licenses have been enforced.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> Just to throw out an anecdote: a while back I nearly was denied boarding of an international flight, because it turned out the airline had mixed up my passport data and decided I was not a US citizen and would need a visa to return to the United States.

I discovered this at the airport, when trying to drop off my bag. Fortunately, the airline agent was able to get a supervisor who took a look at my (US citizen) passport and fixed something in their records that allowed me to get a boarding pass and catch the flight, but I could easily have just been stranded there by someone who took the attitude of "computer says no, can't help you when the computer says no".

<comment><USER25> Oh my, I was denied as well last time I entered because the person at the border looked at the wrong page on my passport (which was a Visa for the previous year). She just told me she couldn't let me in without any fucking reason. I realized she was looking at the wrong page and had to tell her to look at the correct one. She gave me her best "I don't give a fuck" impression and let me go on my way.

</comment></comment><comment><USER46> Are there people here who have worked at airport security of some country? I know we don't have much to go on, so I'm not looking for the truth. I'm wondering hypothetically: why / how could his entry be denied?

<comment><USER47> I don't work at airport security but since he was denied on check-in I suppose it's a case of "computer says no". The person at the check-in counter does not know why and has no way to get the situation remedied.

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> At least it happened before the flight...

</comment><comment><USER49> The link says I'm unauthorized to view the tweets, whatever that means.

</comment><comment><USER50> I bet it's the "haxx" domain.

</comment><comment><USER51> Please don't say "Americans" don't want foreigners on our soil. A minority of Americans allowed a hostile foreign government to manipulate our election process to raise a corrupt, compromised bigot to power. Most Americans want our country to be open and free. Painting every American this way does nothing to recognize the misery of this situation.

<comment><USER52> Well things were not much better under Obama. In the last ten years, I've had European friends denied entry, or even detained for hours on end, for the most innocuous of reasons. And regardless of what "most Americans" want, they clearly don't want it enough to make it a mainstream political issue.

<comment><USER53> Yup.

\- W brought us the magnificent theatre of Homeland Security

\- Clinton cut legal immigration by nearly half

\- Reagan made employers "attest to their immigration status", and a crime to hire undocumented people knowingly

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER54> That's most likely because of some name collision/similarity instead of his FOSS work.

<comment><USER55> Quite possibly, but if so this is a weird result.

I was denied automatic (i.e. scan passport, go through automated face detection machine) entry into Australia (my own country) a few years ago (at the Australian end). When i asked the border security officer why it didn't admit me, she said "you have a name similar to someone on a watch list". "Oh, I didn't think my name was that common, is it a close match?" "Not that close, no".

</comment></comment><comment><USER56> Is he developing any critical software that some would want to inject unsafe code?

<comment><USER57> By critical software, do you also mean software that is embedded into all kinds of other software projects all over the world? Like cURL for example?

</comment></comment><comment><USER58> Sorry, I am not following the news, much. What is the context here?

<comment><USER59> Seems like no reason was given.

</comment></comment><comment><USER60> People suggesting to move conferences to other countries like France or Germany are wrong: you can't guarantee that your country is not going to turn into a US-like isolationist in the future. The US wasn't and your country is also only 1-government away from being one.

What we probably need is a new form of portable conferences where the location doesn't matter and/or is flexible and/or regime-proof. We should stop taking democracy and openness for granted.

<comment><USER61> >you can't guarantee that your country is not going to turn into a US-like isolationist in the future

If it does, you can move the conference again. Just because it can change sometime "in the future" doesn't mean we shouldn't do it now.

<comment><USER60> I was referring to suggestions of EU as a final solution to the US issue. What you are referring to is to decide on hosting locations on a year to year basis, which joins my idea of portable conferences.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER62> Absolutely no trouble at US airports. YMMV. Staff at JFK were professional, friendly and fast.

This person may not have realized an ESTA needed in advance. He could be doing the thing people often do where they screw something up, and then, irresponsibly give a vague explanation, that they can deny later, but that leaves open to interpretation the possibility that they were somehow unfairly treated, when it might have just been their screw up.

"Denied because of ESTA" \--> could actually be "Denied because I didn't get my ESTA ahead of time, and follow the clearly stated requirements. Damn, I'm stupid. Everyone make sure you read the rules before you fly! My bad."

<comment><USER63> Yes, these inflammatory stories surface on here from time to time. Everyone jumps from 'someone was inconvenienced' to 'totalitarianism' in 1 second with 0 information. People start calling for boycotts of the US.

Later, 9 times out of 10 it ends up being nothing, but there's not a story with thousands of posts with people saying 'oh, I jumped to conclusions'. In fact people don't ever hear about the resolution, and they probably don't care to hear stories that contradict the worldview they choose to reinforce for themselves.

<comment><USER62> True. People love to play at being victims of something. They absolutely love a ripper of a story of some absolute bad villain. Even if none exists. It's amazing the fictions that masquerade as truths, while everyone is out pretending they've got a monopoly on facts. I'd laugh if it wasn't so devastatingly sad. I'm still laughing tho. Maybe the internet virtualizes/fictionalizes everything and we're all just "victims" of our own creation. Frankennet.</comment></comment></comment>