200+ Labels Withdraw Their Music From Spotify and Other Streaming Services - <AUTHOR> http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2011/11/200-labels-withdraw-their-music-from-spotify-are-its-fortunes-unravelling/all/1

<comment><AUTHOR> Spotify's response is spot-on:

 _"In addition, 'revenue per stream' totally misses the point when considering the value generated by Spotify. The relevant metrics are: 1) how many people are being monetized by Spotify; 2) who these people are (usually young people previously on pirate services which generate nothing for artists and rightsholders); and 3) how much revenue per user Spotify generates for rightsholders._

<comment><USER2> The number of people being monetized by Spotify is great for the aggregated interests of all the labels on the service but may be meaningless to individual labels/artists. If they are indeed losing record sales and Spotify isn't making up for the difference it must be pretty hard to justify staying there. The argument about piracy could be weak too depending on how many pirates go on to buy the music. 1000 streams for 1 cent each = $10 vs. 10,000 downloads that turns into just 2 sales $10 each = $20. (fake made up numbers but they illustrate the point)

<comment> eric-hu To play the devil's advocate in favor of mikeknoop's comment:

The claim is

(a - n) + b < a : n > 0

a: record sales (a-n): record sales minus would-be sales due to spotify b: additional profit spotify generates from would-be piraters

The fallacy (IMO) of the label is that "a-n + b" is in all situations less than "a". They're deciding that it's less profitable to distribute content with spotify without examining what "b" is.

You may very well be right that a spotify-license system is less profitable. I think it's jumping to conclusions to decide this, though. "b" (the profit generated from would-be piraters) is a study-able quantity, and should be measured before making any claim.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Why are we looking at how much they make per play? $120 a year is still more than a would spend music before rdio. I assume the average customer spends less than $120. How is this not more profitable then selling discs?

<comment><AUTHOR> I was spending nowhere near $120/yr on music previously and now I am about to eagerly pay just that via Spotify. Obviously labels/artists are only seeing a certain percentage of that but could easily get around it by setting up their OWN equally good streaming service to mirror Spotify et. al. and charge the same/more and take the entire cut.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> They had to do a study to find out streaming is a substitute for other forms of music distribution? Of course it is. Raise the price, but please don't make me go back to less covenient systems (e.g., iTunes, bittorrent, CDs, etc.). It would be like insisting that you're only releasing 8-track. Fine, but I'll find something else to listen to that doesn't force me to deal with an antiquated hassle.

</comment><comment><USER5> This is why SOPA exists. Rather than give users an easy way to listen to music legally, content holders are making downloading the only viable option and then using the government as their muscle.

I have never pirated anything that was available on Rdio/Netflix/Hulu.

<comment><USER6> "I have never pirated anything that was available on Rdio/Netflix/Hulu."

Now _that_ is exactly how it should work.

I wish I could say the same, but sadly not any of those services are available overseas. I really wish they could finally open up for everyone, my money's just waiting to be spent on Netflix!

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> I spent the most on physical album sales (majority of that being vinyl records) when I worked for a streaming music company.

I agree with some of the commenters, being able to listen to those artists, really helped in making the decision to spend my hard earned cash. I realize I'm in the minority, but there are sales being done as a direct result of artists being on these streaming services.

And for the record, I would listen to Coldplay, thank you very much. ;)

</comment><comment><USER8> _Recent top-sellers like Coldplay and Adele have actively avoided Spotify for their newest albums, because their management know the record will sell widely regardless and Spotify's audience isn't likely to be especially keen on those artists anyway._

Seems dubious. I'd expect Coldplay and Adele to be extremely popular with Spotify users.

Anyway, I'm not surprised labels are withdrawing from Spotify. It's outrageously cheap.

</comment><comment><USER9> I'm unclear from this article which labels pulled their content? Can anyone point me to a list of artists that are no longer available?

<comment><USER10> Its one distributor, with about ~280 labels, these are likely niche and smaller labels. I wouldn't be surprised if many weren't less then 10 artists (some likely only one artist)

<http://www.stholdings.co.uk/label_list/>

<comment><USER11> That's generally the stuff I like to listen to though.

EDIT: Not that I'm about to go and hunt down the CD's, I probably wouldn't have heard of most of the artists if it were not for streaming services that facilitate discovery.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Funny, piratebay.org still works...</comment>


How to Do Code Reviews Like a Human - <AUTHOR> https://mtlynch.io/human-code-reviews-1/ <comment><USER2> > It's easy for an author to interpret criticism of their code as an > implication that they are an incompetent programmer.

Well, no. It's _easy_ if they're unfit for team work (can't take criticism, can't take peer review) or not used to code reviews / pull requests.

In either case they are probably detrimental for the team.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for reading!

>Well, no. It's easy if they're unfit for team work (can't take criticism, can't take peer review) or not used to code reviews / pull requests. In either case they are probably detrimental for the team.

I don't agree with this. Nobody has experience with code reviews until they actually do them. If we say that people without code review experience are detrimental to a team, how can developers gain code review experience?

<comment><USER2> > If we say that people without code review experience are detrimental to a > team, how can developers gain code review experience?

Let me put it this way: I can teach programmers how to deal with code review at a technical level, but I can't teach them how to not be offended when people criticize their code. That is something a coworker is not equipped to do.

When a person takes a job, she must accept that her work will be scrutinized and criticized by her boss and her peers. Quality will be evaluated and the person will be held to some standard. Quite literally, mentions to "quality" and "company standards" will be everywhere on the contract between this person and the company. If I hire this person, I will assume her capable of taking criticism gracefully. If I suspect she cannot, I won't hire her for all the money in the world. Making an entire team walking on eggshells to avoid offending a coworker is neither acceptable nor a good move for the company.</comment></comment></comment>


Magic Keyboard for the iPad Pro: the best way to turn an iPad into a laptop - <AUTHOR> https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/20/21227345/magic-keyboard-ipad-pro-tablet-laptop-review-price-specs-features <comment><USER2> Apparently this is compatible with the 2018 iPad Pro as well, which is slightly surprising since this accessory alone could have induced some folks to upgrade.

Most people wouldn't dump a 2-year old iPad Pro; OTOH, this is the Pro line, so many of the consumers are very wealthy and/or signaling.</comment>


Chrome 40 launches with NPAPI plugins blocked, removes SSL 3.0 - <AUTHOR> http://venturebeat.com/2015/01/21/chrome-40-launches-with-npapi-plugins-blocked-by-default-removes-ssl-3-0-completely/

<comment><USER2> Chrome's Flash plugin uses the Pepper API (PPAPI), so Flash is appears to be exempt from their new click-to-play policy. All plugins are click-to-play on Firefox, including Flash (even on major Flash websites like YouTube or Zombo.com).</comment>


German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages - <AUTHOR> http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.derwesten.de%2Fwirtschaft%2Fdigital%2Fus-beamte-schickten-deutsche-nach-facebook-mails-zurueck-id8041896.html <comment><USER2> Just a note of caution, a friend of mine wanted to send their daughter over to visit the US during the summer before she headed off to college. We were of course happy to let her stay at our place which is a good west coast starting point for things California.

Somewhere in correspondence where she was trying to ask nicely if she could stay at our place she said "I could watch the kids or something" and later in that same correspondence we had said, "no worries, its no trouble for you to stay here." Based on that one statement she was refused entry at SFO and sent back on a plane to Paris and subsequently refused entry into the US for the next 5 years. It was insanely stupid.

<comment><USER3> So ridiculous! Why are they cracking down on this? Are young French and German girls really posing such a risk to US employment rates? I have offered the same thing while asking if I could stay with relatives in other US cities (I'm American). Next, are they going to go around accusing 16 year old American girls of tax evasion since their bank accounts "fit the profile" for someone who's done babysitting?

Sorry, but the living standards are high enough and tuition costs low enough in France and Germany that I'm not really sure why any French/German college- aged kids would be sneaking into this country for real jobs.

<comment><USER4> It's reasonably straightforward au-pairing legally in the US. You just need to be represented by one of the officially sanctioned au pair agencies, and you get a J1 visa.

So I guess they're miffed that girls are trying to cheat the official (rather inflexible IMO) system.

There are huge numbers of American girls in Europe doing a similar thing -- legally and illegally -- and in some countries you'd get the same hard-assed attitude.

In Germany, au pairs don't need a visa at all.

France, being France, they require a work permit (unless you're from CN, NZ or AU).

Spain is easy (just apply to the nearest consulate and it's rubber-stamped) and you can work there for up to two years.

In the UK, it's super-complicated. The UK authorities simply don't want non-EU workers under any circumstances (but what's the point in au-pairing in another English-speaking country?).

However, French and German girls are awesome, so please keep it up and with any luck, more will come here to Spain.

;-)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> This story seems highly unlikely to be true given the following 4 assumptions:

1) The US Government wanted to maintain the secrecy of the program.

2) Giving the data to a large number of border guards would have increased the chance of its dissemination.

3) It would be unnecessary to show her the data to refuse her admission to the US and showing her would violate #2.

4) She would not be a valuable enough target to expose the fact that the US had the data.

Additionally:

It is much more likely that if the border guards were using the NSA data, they would simply receive lists of those that could not enter. She would have probably been a target for that since she was trying to obtain work in the US illegally.

Alternatively, and even more likely, boarder patrol could have searched public websites for her name and seen her occupation and the rest could have been an exaggeration.

<comment><USER6> The publicly viewable Facebook message theory sounds more plausible given that (i) plenty of people seem to have little concept of what is and isn't private in Facebook and (ii) the US does have a track record of denying people entry based on public social media posts: [http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/01/31/british-tourists- tweets-...](http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/01/31/british-tourists-tweets-get- them-denied-entry-to-the-u-s/)

Chances are they got a tipoff or she got caught by profiling or a random check as I doubt anyone bothers to check the Facebook profile pages of every foreigner entering the US.

<comment><USER7> An 18 year old entering the country with the intent of staying longer than a few weeks alone will raise eyebrows at the border. Next question will be regarding available funds. How can she afford to travel that long? Staying "with friends" is also suspicious, especially when she hasn't met them in person before.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> It's unclear to me who provided the print-out of Jana's private messages. Obviously it seems much more likely that Jana provided the messages, not Homeland Security.

I hired a Canadian once under a TN NAFTA "visa" and he had to bring some correspondence from me to the border. We had to be very careful to word things correctly and not to use specific words that could prevent him from coming to the US. It seems that this is similar to what this young woman experienced.

<comment><USER9> Data acquisition methods in order of highest probability:

1\. ^ This.

2\. Was actually public information; story details lost in transmission or translation.

3\. Her phone was still logged into Facebook.

4\. They gained access to Facebook via links in e-mail.

[...]

10\. Normal federal law enforcement powers.

11\. Special federal law enforcement powers, e.g. Patriot Act.

[...]

100\. NSA data that requires TS/SAP + full-scope poly to access.

<comment><USER7> They probably have a semi-automatic data collection system where you can type in a name, and it collects all sorts of public data in real time. To a non- technical person, this can look like they have a file on you, when in reality this crawler just compiled all the data in a few minutes.

<comment><USER10> I use one of those tools at work. It's called Google :)

<comment><USER7> Right... It's probably more sophisticated like that. Similar to what many HR departments use to screen future employees.

<comment><USER11> HR departments just use Google...

<comment><USER7> There are subscription services that do all the dirty work for you. Like beenverified.com (However that explicitly "forbids" its users to use it for employment verification. Pinky promise!)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Perhaps she posted her intent to work illegally in a public facebook post and not only via PM? Or perhaps her host family was under the impression she was official and triggered some sort of alert when they were arranging things (if she for example, listed them as a contact when she got to customs). The typical au pair process from Germany is quite strict and time consuming to get a visa for a 1 year stay, I've had a few friends come to the US to do it. You most definitely need a work visa to be an au pair and she was attempting to violate her tourist visa in two ways, by overstaying the 90 days allowed, and by working. A lot of things could be going on here.

<comment><USER13> My thought as well. My guess is she or he had posted something on her publicly visible wall and they just printed that off.

Hardly takes a genius. A couple pages of FB wall would take you back a few weeks as well, the agent probably just hit Print.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Is this the only news outlet with this story? How credible is this publication? Before I get worked up about this story, I'd like to know it's not bullshit.

<comment><USER15> Der Westen/WAZ is usually pretty credible.

However I think it's likely that they misconstructed the story (not on purpose but because they made some bad assumptions). Pretty likely that this is yet another "routine check sniffing through social media etc. after the person acted suspicious in some way" ... which in itself is noteworthy but pretty different.

Not unlikely that the sources reported the story a tad wrong.

<comment><USER16> I don't agree on the credibility part. In my opinion they quite often write sensational judgemental stories, at least on local topics.

Also they rarely indicate their sources. Same with this article. No source, nothing.

If a viral story (though there's no direct mention of Prism, the NSA etc, the 'related articles' are all about this and it's clear that it's the same topic) was their aim: Mission accomplished. Not only the massive traffic from HN, but also more than 3 times as many Facebook shares for this article as the next- most-shared-one.

There are some critical comments on the site, which are blocked and removed quickly by the moderators (have seen this a couple of times now).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Yes. When asked the reason for her visit she said it was to visit family, friends, and do an English course. Her Facebook "private messages" showed that she was there to be an _au pair_ , which means to do housework and child- minding in return for money.

In short, she was lying and got caught. And after all the recent _brouhaha,_ are you surprised that the authorities had access to her "private" Facebook messages?

 _Added in edit, since most of the replies to this comment are saying the same thing, so I may as well reply to you all at once by adding my reply here: I put the word "private" in quotation marks. What's the odds that at least of what she posted was, in fact, public? Just how careful was she about privacy settings? Just how careful was she not to post_ anything at all _that was publicly viewable? I 'm not at all surprised that she was stopped, and given a second interview, nor that they checked social media._

 _I guess next time I put something in "scare quotes" I should spell out explicitly that it's a term that just might not be literally true._

<comment><USER18> I'm surprised that the authorities are using their access to her facebook messages for something so trivial and this openly (if they actually did). Additionally, she was not even an american citizen or resident.

<comment><USER19> > Additionally, she was not even an american citizen or resident.

In all probability, it's /because/ she's not an american citizen or resident. The fourth amendment doesn't apply for non-persons.

<comment><USER20> Actually, the Constitution does apply to people that are not US citizens. However, it's the "law of the land" and the border (and other countries) is not part of that land.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> And here's the flip side of Google Translate. German doesn't react well to n-gram statistics; too many long-distance dependencies. Also translating the city of "Essen" as "Food" is hilarious.

<comment><USER22> I prefer the transpation of "Würzburg" as "peppering castle" that babelfish did when the web was still young...

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> When my partner (who is from the EU) got to the US this most recent time (she visits here for 90 days at a time, as allowed under VWP rules), immigration pulled her aside with a printout of (public-facing) facebook pages on their desk. Interesting only in that her face book is not under her official name. They had pages and pages of printouts that they thought proved she wasn't simple a tourist, and that she was working here, etc. Note, it was all public (or semi-public with a lot of crawling around under alternate emails, leading to other names, etc etc) so nothing "intercepted". But still a bit worrying when you get pulled aside and someone has a folder ready full of pictures of you, your business website (freelancer), your facebook posts, your tweets, etc

<comment><USER7> Interesting. Any theories on how they linked that FB profile to her real name? Maybe through the WHOIS record of her website, that got linked from that Facebook page often enough to imply a relationship?

<comment><USER23> Probably not even anything that difficult. If you search for her last name and city, her freelance site comes up. If you go through the freelance site you get an email. Under a search for that email, I think there is a livejournal. In livejournal info there is a link to the facebook page. Etc etc. Something like that. Just google search a few things and play "follow that link"

Worthwhile not because of super spy tactics, nothing any of us couldn't do in 10 minutes of looking for a person, but because its a reminder of how much info people leave out in the open even if they are semi privacy conscious, and also whether you think it is valid or not (I don't obv) immigration is going to get anything they can to figure out why you are here if you are a "frequent tourist" and seemingly from all of our interactions with them, the thing they are most concerned about, to the point of being fanatical, is whether or not you are making any money while you are in the US.

In the age of telecommuting, multinational clients, etc this makes no sense. (My partner can of course hire American clients when in Europe, but can't even work for European clients when in the US) but not exactly the first time bureaucracy is dragging behind the way we are actually living.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> "Finally, the officials baffled Jana submitted a printout of the entire Facebook correspondence with their host-father. "

Maybe something is lost in translation, but could the officials just have received the correspondence from the family she was coming to visit??

<comment><USER25> Does anyone have a link to a human translated version of story?

<comment><USER21> Essen. Anyone interested in traveling the US to experience everyday life there as an intern or an au pair should be careful with their correspondence. The staff of the immigration authorities appear to be happy to read along on social networks like Facebook. Two young women were put onto the next plane back to Germany right after landing.

After completing high school, Jana H. wanted to go abroad to the land of unlimited opportunity – the United States of America. She organized her own au pair exchange. Found a nice family she wanted to work for and live with for a year. For agreed-upon daily spending money, Jana would take care of the children. At the same time, she wanted to take a language course to improve her English. She had regular contact with her host father through Facebook.

When the high school graduate finally landed in the US, she was taken to the side and questioned at the passport control in the airport. The officials at the American immigration agency wanted to know the reasons for her travel and how long she wanted to stay.

Wrong answers

Jana was ready for this kind of question. She wanted to visit friends of her parents and take an English course. Was she sure of that? was the next question. Yes, she was sure. Really, really sure?

Finally, the officials presented the astounded Jana with a print-out of the entire Facebook correspondence she had had with her host father. Their accusation: The young woman wanted to work in the States illegally. The authorities had obviously read along in Jana's private messages on the social network Facebook for weeks. Jana was not allowed to enter. The next airplane brought the 18-year-old back to Germany.

It wasn't an isolated incident. The dream of another youth of an internship on a horse ranch in the US also never came to fruition due to snooped Facebook messages – he, too, ended up right back at the airport after the flight over the pond.

291 words.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Heh. Saw a story where some Britishers were refused entry to US simply because they tweeted something like "2 weeks till I destroy America on my vacation". They were specifically asked stuff like "How do you plan to destroy America?"

Srsly?

</comment><comment><USER27> A similar case is surfacing in Norway aswell, only here it is for a top lawyer: [http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=n&prev=...](http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vg.no%2Fnyheter%2Finnenriks%2Fartikkel.php%3Fartid%3D10104089&act=url)

</comment><comment><USER28> DHS CIS (immigration authorities) has been using Facebook and other social networks to detect relationship fraud in citizenship applications. EFF foia-ed a memo on the subject: [https://www.eff.org/files/filenode/social_network/DHS_Custom...](https://www.eff.org/files/filenode/social_network/DHS_CustomsImmigration_SocialNetworking.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER29> The United States is not going to blow the operational security of a Top Secret program to bust a teenaged nanny. There's more to this poorly- translated story.

<comment><USER30> Or as it turns out: less.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> Should we infer that the NSA or some other government organization used a FISA request to read a German girl's Facebook messages about her upcoming au pair work in the US? This seems very unlikely, and I believe would be a clear violation of FISA unless they also thought she was a terrorist or spy.

</comment><comment><USER32> I found this story several hours ago, as well. I found the news to be a possible sensationalist story and didn't even think about posting it on HN. Yes, it is a very interesting story. But it a speculative story. You never know if the media did their research properly or if they just wanted to have more readers. There are other more reputable and trusted news sources in Germany than this one. I don't say it is made up, but some facts could be wrong.

</comment><comment><USER33> I know I'm reading a Google translation, but the story seems weak.

It's a real newspaper, but we've got an article with an unknown source, about a girl with no last name, landing in an unnamed city on an unnamed date. There's no statement from any authority and no way to corroborate any part of this.

It's one step above this story that I heard from my best friend, whose cousin's mom totally said ...

</comment><comment><USER34> I think this is a case of a $5 wrench and not big brother [http://xkcd.com/538/](http://xkcd.com/538/)

when you are taken for questioning they may put you in a cell while they go trhu your stuff.

In that little cell, you are not allowed even you shoe laces!!!!

so they probably got her, unlocked her iphone (either she had no password or they have backdoors) and got the messages.

</comment><comment><USER35> I find it quite unbelievable people are buying into this story.

Border guards have access to private email to catch people who possibly might work on the wrong visa, sure....

And boarder guards have kept this secrete for years but the leak came from within the NSA.

What is wrong with people. This is why the governmenat walks all over you, there's just no common sense amongst the masses.

</comment><comment><USER36> Maybe the border agents were in possession of her laptop and used that to get access to her private messages.

<comment><USER37> Maybe 'private messages' actually refers to public wall posts.

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> My sister moved to America about 7-8 years ago and the school where she got a job as a teacher found her website hosted here in Sweden, under a fake name. They demanded that she take it down because she posted about something the schools lawyers objected to. I'm not sure if it was amazon links or about her BDSM hobbies. Either way I was amazed by the fact that they found it, and traced it to her. She didn't even have a computer at the time so she had to call me who worked at the hosting company where it was hosted for free, just so I could take it down for her.

It's interesting how much personal image speaks to character in some societies. I'm not saying this is unique to the USA, it's just interesting how we judge people superficially.

</comment><comment><USER39> It seems as if she lied to the immigration officers. From the story it is not quite clear how it was discovered, but it seems probable that the story is biased and that there are no secondary sources. Also the comments suggest that. So ??

<comment><USER40> So? America is horrible. Especially how they won't let us in.

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> Rings of this incident with UK tourists and Twitter: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3533270](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3533270)

</comment><comment><USER42> The whole story doesn't seem to add up, I have a feeling that some crucial information is missing.

Apparently, the reason she was sent home was that she gave wrong information about her reasons to enter the country. That's why she was confronted with contradictory information in her messages (she claimed she wanted visit friends of her parents, while she was really going there to work). So was she actually trying to enter illegaly and was sent back because of that? That sounds like a visa issue to me (tourist vs. work visa).

Certainly the NSA or Homeland Security or whoever weren't reading every facebook message just so they could check if the girl would state a matching reason for entering the country.

To me it looks like something else must have triggered all of this, something that is not mentioned in the article. I understand that the main point here is that Immigration had access to her facebook chats. I just wonder: at what point in time did they decide to access her chats. Was it when the girl was already at Immigrations? Was it as a (random?) background check when she applied for her visa or ESTA? Or was it after something, e.g. keywords, in her chats triggered a check?

(Please understand that I'm not in the slightest trying to defend that customs had access to the FB chats, I just find the article a bit lacking.)

</comment><comment><USER43> I've read that laptops can be searched at the border. I wonder if her laptop was suspended with Facebook active, or had saved login cookies to Facebook, allowing customs guys to log onto the machine [1] to see what she's been up to.

I decided long ago, when there was the initial flap about post-9/11 laptop border searches, that if I ever travel internationally, I'll wipe the HD of any laptops I'm taking with me before I cross any national border, and just use scp to transfer files as needed.

If I need to use large files that are too large to upload or download with the time and bandwidth available, this strategy becomes...problematic. But that scenario's pretty unlikely since I'd be going as a software developer/tourist mostly working with Git repos, still photos and short video clips, not a documentary filmmaker producing hours of high-definition video.

[1] Or pop the hard drive out and put it in another machine (assuming it's unencrypted). Which is what they should be doing if these procedures were ever reviewed by a competent lawyer (less chance of accidentally destroying evidence or the user's data this way).

</comment><comment><USER44> Would you like to share this status update with

      - everyone?
      - just friends and the CIA?
      - just close friends and the CIA?
      - just the CIA?

</comment><comment><USER45> As a native German speaker, I just wanted you to know, that the provided translation wouldn't make any sense, if you at least didn't have a basic gasp of the German language. The original German article does not provide any information about how HS dept got to read the Facebook messages. Further, it seems a rather badly researched article out of an insignificant tabloid.

</comment><comment><USER46> The bigger revelation here to me is that it would appear the information access is shared beyond the NSA for more than security purposes.

<comment><USER47> The whole story is suspect. Why now? If the US government were to use this kind of intel to address issues as small as this, and this is at the level of shop lifting, wouldn't such incidents have made it to international news several times by now?

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> First of all, the only thing that makes this story interesting is whether or not the officers had access to the _private_ FB messages, as compared to her public profile. Her being sent back for lying about her intentions to work was a correct decision. As it is, the story (I'm reading the native German version) is very vague on the Facebook issue. I find it rather unlikely that immigration officials are sitting at every point of entry into the US with a massive folder of facebook printouts of everyone arriving on a plane. I'm almost certain there's more to this story (like, maybe she applied for a Student or Work Visa, which was refused for some reason, and then again applied as a tourist immediately after, which caused her to be flagged). Without that info, and without knowing what kind of data they actually got from Facebook, this whole discussion is moot.

</comment><comment><USER49> Here is a similar story from one year ago:

[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2093796/Emily- Buntin...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2093796/Emily-Bunting- Leigh-Van-Bryan-UK-tourists-arrested-destroy-America-Twitter-jokes.html)

This case was public twitter messages and not private facebook conversations, but otherwise similar.

There's a lot of skeptics in this thread whether the US immigration would actually snoop through social networking sites. But if these two cases are true as reported, it seems there's some level of semi-automatic filtering of social media accounts for people entering the country.

<comment><USER50> _There 's a lot of skeptics in this thread whether the US immigration would actually snoop through social networking sites. But if these two cases are true as reported, it seems there's some level of semi-automatic filtering of social media accounts for people entering the country._

That is completely different to what is being alleged, especially in light of events this week, that they had access to private facebook messages.

</comment></comment><comment><USER51> I'm kind of confused - if US immigration authorities are so powerful and omnipresent that they read Facebook feeds of every random German girl in case they ever want to come to the US, how comes we still have illegal immigration problem in the US? Or was there something special about this particular girl that triggered the attention of the law enforcement well in advance of her visit? Or they just took her laptop, logged in to facebook and clicked "print"? Kind of unclear what exactly happened.

</comment><comment><USER52> Here's a story from 2012 where a UK subject made a twitter comment about "destroying america" and was subsequently denied entry to the US.

([http://thenextweb.com/twitter/2012/01/30/this-is-what- happen...](http://thenextweb.com/twitter/2012/01/30/this-is-what-happens-when- you-joke-about-destroying-america-on-twitter/))

Obviously, tweets are public. But still, this kind of stuff isn't unknown.

</comment><comment><USER53> Honestly, this seems to me (German) like a very lurid headline. Article seems like more entertaining then a serious press release and does not belong on top of hacker news imho.

</comment><comment><USER54> I haven't heard this mentioned yet: Do we really think facebook "private" messages are in any way private, or even billed by facebook to be private? I am reading the facebook privacy policy and they do mention that they "... may use the information we receive about you: ...to protect Facebook's or others' rights or property..."

So we have rights to free speech, do we also have rights to private speech?

</comment><comment> brown9-2 It's hard to know which depiction of the NSA to believe:

* Amazingly competent agency that is secretly reading all SSL-encrypted Internet traffic and thoroughly concerned with the messageboard postings of average Americans

* Amazingly incompetent agency that develops ground-breaking technology and shares it with low-level Customs officials to bust 18-year old au pairs

</comment><comment><USER55> It could also be that her Facebook profile was public and she posted public status updates (default FB privacy setting) about what she plans to do in the US. No PRISM necessary for that, just a FB account.

Just try a search on FB for a random name and open a couple of profiles. It is baffling how much personal information is publicly available.

</comment><comment><USER56> I can't believe this is factually accurate. Providing a hard copy of private facebook messages seems like a rather dumb thing to do as this would confirm that US agencies are checking up on foreign nationals intentions. Even if they checking up, implicating themselves with such a daft move seems implausible.

I call bullshit!

</comment><comment><USER57> It's not totally clear to me that these were private messages.

I know that the Canadian Border services agency will look things up that are posted publicly on the internet to verify stories. My guess is that the messages were public and the immigration staff just looked them up and happened to see them.

</comment><comment><USER58> She was planing to get a "salary" and didn't tell the immigration office about it and didn't have the right visa for that. -> She didn't play by the rules, so why should this be any more outraging than any other illegal immigrant?

</comment><comment><USER59> The US is spending billions on immigration control, and still have several millions of illegal immigrants. For me this is a sign that restrictions on immigration as they now exist don't work, don't benefit society and should be rethought.

</comment><comment><USER60> I don't think Customs needs any help from the NSA. Search incoming passenger manifests for anyone with a return ticket more than 5 months from arrival, then just search twitter and facebook pages for anyone on that list. Voila!

</comment><comment><USER61> If you want to come to US and work illegally and get caught, what do you expect?

<comment><USER62> Why was this voted down? No one other than US citizens has a right to enter the US.

<comment><USER61> The girl wanted to work illegally. That is my main point of concern in case you didn't get it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER63> Isn't this an outrage. We should only be denying entry to hispanics, Muslims and darkies who we suspect of wanting to overstay their visas.

But you know, we don't have enough border security and we need more.

</comment><comment><USER64> Whether this is true or not this is certainly not good PR for the US tourism industry and the US in general. Germans were not so long ago the people in the world who had the best image of the US.

</comment><comment><USER65> Google translate needs some work on translating. It doesn't seem to understand the differences in how sentences are constructed (order of operations) in different languages.

</comment><comment> ryan-allen Well, I was going to one day visit the US, but I'll never risk entering with the kind of inane (but possibly incriminating) crap I've bantered with friends over chat.

What a sham.

</comment><comment><USER66> I wonder if this is part of a plan to deincentivise immigration.

</comment><comment><USER67> Well I guess the guns and gates will still hold Nikita in. :(

</comment><comment><USER68> I question the authenticity of this article.

</comment><comment><USER69> Translation there no good hard read to.

</comment><comment><USER70> quite ironic that the (German) site shoves a "like this on FB" prompt in my face as I read

<comment><USER71> You might want to look into some anti-tracking software that disables that.

</comment></comment><comment><USER72> Is this a Aprils fools joke? If not this would be unreal.

</comment><comment><USER73> From a German perspective, it probably doesn't matter at all whether or not this story is even true or how the messages were retrieved if it is true. The US has earned the mistrust of the world.</comment>


Wikipedia blackout page - <AUTHOR> http://en.wikipedia.org <comment><USER2> The time delay in implementation of the black-out on my system (via JavaScript) probably helps make the point more. I went to the main page (the link here) not by following the link from this thread, but from my browser history. I saw a brief glimpse of today's main page, and then the screen image changed to Wikipedia's black-out page. I went to the information page, and there it still shows all the headings a Wikipedian will see when logged in: the user's own user page, and user talk page, and so on. So I followed the link to my user page, and it too displayed for the briefest tantalizing moment before showing the black-out page. Slick. I tried some other stored URLs from my browser history, and they all briefly displayed the appropriate Wikipedia page before being overwritten with the black-out notice. This will get attention.

The black-out information page

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SOPA_initiative/Learn...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SOPA_initiative/Learn_more)

says "The Wikipedia community has blacked out the English version of Wikipedia for 24 hours on January 18th to raise awareness about legislation being proposed by the U.S. Congress," but I see it also includes advice for residents of other countries about what to do about the legislation.

The information page even includes a response to the question "In carrying out this protest, is Wikipedia abandoning neutrality? Can I still trust Wikipedia?" The response is "We are staging this blackout because, although Wikipedia's articles are neutral, its existence actually is not. Wikipedia depends on its existence for a free and open, uncensored Internet." This immediately suggests some other countries that it might be important to draw more attention to on Wikipedia. I wonder if that will happen. If it doesn't, I may indeed start doubting the neutrality of Wikipedia even more than I already do.

Mobile devices are exempted from the black-out, according to the information page, and anyone can turn off the black-out by disabling JavaScript. (I enable JavaScript on Wikipedia to take advantage of various Wikipedia editing tools.) I'll have to experiment with viewing the site some more, and I'll be curious to see what the worldwide reaction is. Again, I wonder what users will suggest what other countries to protest about with regard to Internet censorship.

AFTER EDIT: In another experiment, I posted a Wikipedia link to Facebook to tell friends about the background to my new favorite pop song. The link

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_This_Kolaveri_Di>

still shows correct summary text when embedded in a Facebook comment. That the links are still pasteable and still have usability when submitted to discussion forums is an especially nice aspect of how Wikipedia implemented its blackout. (P.S. The direct link to the official video for the new song, which is rapidly going viral around the world, is

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR12Z8f1Dh8>

from Sony Music India hosted on YouTube.)

<comment><USER3> _"Wikipedia depends on its existence for a free and open, uncensored Internet."_

Gah... that should be "Wikipedia depends, _for_ its existence, _on_ a free and open, uncensored Internet.", but of course editing that page is disabled! :)

<comment><USER4> The moral of the story: don't let engineers write copy, and don't make them write copy on a deadline while trying to fix bugs.

(I'm in the IRC channel where the SOPA blackout was planned and executed... the engineers are running on adrenaline, caffeine and sugar.)

<comment><USER5> Which IRC channel would that happen to be? I would love to see the logs of the last few days.

<comment><USER4> Ssh. Private. ;-)

<comment><USER6> Heck, I would pay money.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> From the wikipedia blackout page:

      > They [the bills] put the onus on website owners to police user-contributed
      > material and call for the blocking of entire sites, even if the links are
      > not to infringing material. Small sites will not have the sufficient
      > resources to mount a legal challenge.

This is beautiful. It succinctly puts forth the problem that SOPA/PIPA and similar legislation will create: chilling innovation.

</comment><comment><USER8> The black-out page did its job in my case. Here's what I sent to my representatives:

 _As one of your constituents, I want to make you aware of my strong opposition to SOPA, PIPA, and any bill that threatens to restrict or encumber the free flow of information on the Internet.

The monopoly rights that we extend to the owners of intellectual property are intended to provide an incentive to create and disperse knowledge and culture for the benefit of society at large. Legislation that imposes potentially enormous costs on society in order to protect IP rights is antithetical to that very idea.

I encourage you to do what you can to ensure that these bills do not become law._

</comment><comment><USER9> Well, that's interesting. All the content is still there, but then an overlay is placed on the page using JS once the page loads. How long until someone puts up a greasemonkey script to unblackout WP?

<comment><USER10> Here goes a "small" bookmarklet:

javascript:(function(){document.getElementById("mw-page- base").style.display="block"; document.getElementById("mw-head- base").style.display="block"; document.getElementById("content").style.display="block"; document.getElementById("mw-head").style.display="block"; document.getElementById("mw-panel").style.display="block"; document.getElementById("footer").style.display="block"; document.getElementById("mw-sopaOverlay").style.display="none";})()

<comment><USER11> I somehow feel bad about being able to access it now :).

<comment> steve-howard I think Wikipedia still gets to make its point if you have to pepper in some JavaScript or CSS to get back to it. Much more work than your standard interstitial.

<comment><USER12> This is the best point to make: the SOPA will only stop people who don't know how to get around it, just like the Wiki blackout. That is _precisely_ to point to be made here.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Seems like it worked: SOPA got mainstream coverage for the first time in Norway today.

Here's a chart showing mentions of SOPA in Norwegian newspapers: <http://was.id.ly/storing/files/sopa_in_newspapers_opoint.png>

<comment><USER14> Same here in Portugal[1]. It says "The great protest on the Internet against piracy laws has started" and it mentions the arguments of the opposition.

And it already has a comment saying how to disable the block :P

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Amusingly, at first the "Learn More" was a link to a wikipedia page .. which was blacked out. Fixed now :)

</comment><comment><USER16> It has blacked out except for info on SOPA and PIPA ex:[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act#Argument...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act#Arguments_against)

</comment><comment><USER17> Interesting reactions of (former) wikipedia users on twitter collected by @herpderpedia <http://twitter.com/herpderpedia>

<comment><USER18> It's interesting how many people read SOAP instead of SOPA.

eg: "What does Wikipedia have against soap?", "Why doesn't Wikipedia want us to use SOAP anymore.", etc

<comment><USER19> If we could get rid of SOAP along with SOPA, I would be doubly happy.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Seems really poorly implemented. Doesn't explain why it's blacked out in a concise manner, it was unable to look up the House rep for my zip code, it doesn't autolink Twitter, refers to the bills only as "SOPA" and "PIPA" and never actually uses the full names, certainly doesn't employ any innovative methods of getting people to call their reps like Tumblr did, etc...

<comment><USER21> "Doesn't explain why it's blacked out in a concise manner, it was unable to look up the House rep for my zip code"

Yeah, I couldn't see how to look up my house rep either. Probably because I don't have one, not living in the USA.

Why did they have to make this protest of US domestic politics international?

<comment><USER22> If a blackout of the English language Wikipedia affects you, then the destruction of the English language Wikipedia by US domestic politics would _also_ affect you, whether you like it or not.

<comment><USER21> I am unable to influence US politics. My point is not that SOPA would not affect me, but that I am unable to actually do anything about it. Thus, this protest is annoying, without achieving anything.

Google, far more sensibly, and with the understanding that domestic US protests are not relevant to the entire world, took the route of only blacking out their logo for US users.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Personally I wish that the peeps over at Wikipedia could use nice design like the black out page on their donation drives.

</comment><comment><USER24> Adblocked: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:BannerCont...](http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:BannerController)

and it works fine for me... Kinda defeats the purpose though.

</comment><comment><USER25> Viewing source on any blacked out Wikipedia page also lets you read the article text.

</comment><comment><USER26> Oops... clicking the "Learn more" link also results in a blacked-out page.

</comment><comment><USER27> I was prepared for an un-circumventable blackout myself, and on reflection also think that the JS overlay is pretty smart.

I'm certainly over-thinking this, but perhaps there's also a parallel between the way that many people will be finding out how to dive into their configuration and turn off Javascript, install bookmarklets or whatnot today, and the way that people may be finding out how to set their machines up to use alternate DNS servers if and when SOPA's DNS blocking ever comes to pass.

</comment><comment><USER28> Sorry Wikipedia, i want to use you anyway today ... just click on this bookmarklet on any blackouted Wiki page: javascript:(function(){document.body.appendChild(document.createElement('script')).src='[http://www.soluch.at/other/JavaScript/bookmarklets/testsuite...](http://www.soluch.at/other/JavaScript/bookmarklets/testsuite_3/loaded.js;}\)\(\));

</comment><comment><USER29> Plenty of tools already posted, but there are a few more here, including a native FF add-on (so you don't have to keep hitting the bookmarklet) and userscripts for greasemonkey in FF, or native chrome: <http://www.theobamastore.com/stopsopanotknowledge/>

<comment><USER30> Thanks for this, I needed to get homework done!

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> Here's a bookmarklet to show it. Just drag it into your bookmarks bar.

[http://varenhor.st/2012/01/bookmarklet-to-bring-wikipedia- ba...](http://varenhor.st/2012/01/bookmarklet-to-bring-wikipedia-back/)

javascript:$('#mw-sopa-blackout,#mw-sopaOverlay').remove(); $('body').children().show();

</comment><comment><USER32> Use IE6 to continue to access Wikipedia. This is the first and last time, I recommend using IE6.

</comment><comment><USER33> "Wikipedia Blackout Workaround"-extension for Google Chrome: [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/glfkamdjgidnjgfpmf...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/glfkamdjgidnjgfpmfgmbpegfnnhnifa/)

</comment><comment><USER34> Chrome's built-in JavaScript blacklist proves really useful today.

<http://www.onpaws.com/2012/01/sopa-wikipedia-blackout-hack/>

</comment><comment><USER35> This displays the content. Or one can click the browser stop button just after the page is loaded.

$("#mw-sopaOverlay").hide(); $('body').children.show();

I thought they were going to use 503 redirects.

</comment><comment><USER36> I have to say, I just spent as much time browsing all the different languages represented on Wikipedia nowadays as I normally spend on TV Tropes. There's one good result of SOPA!

</comment><comment><USER37> Reading the comments, I have feeling many people outside HN would miss the essence and only think of it as a challenge ("Look, I can access the content! I'm JavaScript ninja!").

</comment><comment><USER38> Get on Twitter and search "wtf wikipedia". Enjoy the show.

</comment><comment><USER39> Content is still viewable -- just disable JavaScript.

<comment><USER40> Alternatively use the mobile version of a page: <http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article>

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> If you use noscript, you'll never see the blackout. Very few people do, but I thought I'd point that out.

</comment><comment><USER42> Obligatory XKCD link: <http://xkcd.com/903/>

</comment><comment><USER43> Looks like they forgot to un-blackout their info page. Whoops!

Edit: And... fixed.

</comment><comment><USER44> Look at Special:RecentChanges nothings happening.

<comment><USER45> Editing has also been blocked for everybody except "stewards" and "staff".

</comment></comment><comment><USER46> This is so sad. Wikipedia is so helpful.

</comment><comment><USER47> Disable Javascript to browse Wikipedia.

</comment><comment><USER48> It's not blacked out in mobile Safari.

<comment><USER49> It is in iPad safari.

Wikipedia is blacked. m.wikipedia.org isn't.

</comment></comment><comment><USER50> bookmarklet solution goo.gl/9cvCu

</comment><comment><USER51> this overlay will drive people crazy

<comment><USER14> Kinda the point, isn't it?

</comment></comment><comment><USER52> For all intents and purposes it's blacked out.

You can count on one hand the number of people who are both unaware of SOPA and PIPA and know how to disable javascript.

<comment><USER53> Maybe it's intentional to actually serve the content but then black it out using a simple script (rather than 503'ing and serving only the blackout page). It's similar to the proposed SOPA censorship in that it only affects the most clueless of us and anyone who really wants to get there can circumvent it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER54> Just as I predicted last week, Twitter is filled with people complaining about the Wikipedia blackout. College students in particular are screwed cause they can't get their work done. StratGirlStories writes, "WTF WHY IS EVERYTHING BEING BLACKED OUT!!!! I HAVE A FUCKING PROJECT DUE IN 5 HOURS!!!! I NEED WIKIPEDIA!!!! FUCK FUCK FUCKKK"

And that's only one.

<comment><USER55> <https://twitter.com/#!/herpderpedia>

</comment></comment><comment><USER56> yeah lot of ways to access wikipedia during the blockout

use the noscript is one and using wget the other and a lot of other such .

i want it block whole if they really wanna balckout . :(</comment>


Silicon Genesis, an oral history of semiconductor technology - <AUTHOR> http://silicongenesis.stanford.edu/index.html

<comment><USER2> No Noyce?</comment>


India unveils $30 Tablet PC - <AUTHOR> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/india-unveils-rs-1500-tablet-pc/127289-11.html?from=tn

<comment><USER2> Based on past experience (personal and otherwise), any technology or project touted by the Indian government (and most governments, at that) is vaporware until shipped.

The $30 number is doubtful because quite regularly, the government subsidizes projects to meet numerical targets like this. But the article says the $30 cost doesn't consider the cost of distribution. Even if the hardware really costs only $30 to make, distribution is going to at least double that. If this is to be sold by retail vendors, which is the only real way to sell this in a country like India, add another $30 to the cost.

<comment><USER3> >>>any technology or project touted by the Indian government (and most governments, at that) is vaporware until shipped.<<<

It depends a lot on the leadership and what are the driving forces behind something like this. Take the Apollo program; you had a charismatic leader whose death had to be avenged by fulfilling his dream. Further, there was a clear vision and a sense of urgency along with new leadership conducive to carrying out that goal. All of that and more made it a success, but the minute that fervor wore off it was killed. Think about it.

Kapil Sibal is one of the most intense, charismatic and brilliant people I know. Yes, he is a politician and by virtue he is suspect, but it still holds true. The programs he set up _do_ work. I am saying this since I benefited from one of them. He started, or pushed off IRIS (<http://www.irissciencefair.com/about_iris.php>) the indian version of ISEF (<http://www.societyforscience.org/isef/>). That program is simply amazing, and it gave me the exposure that I desperately needed.

So, maybe you never know. It might work out after all. Whether or not this will change the basic situation of the indian education system is another matter altogether.

<comment><USER2> I have to admit Sibal has been doing good things with his education portfolio such as Eliminating 10th Standard board exams and allowing students to pick optional subjects regardless of stream. Fingers crossed for this and other ambitious projects succeeding.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I remember there was a $100 laptop claimed to be built by India government for students couple years ago. Whatever happened to that project?

<comment><USER5> Actually, they proposed to make a $10 laptop, and the device in the article appears to be the result of that effort. Here's an article from four years ago covering the proposal:

<http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2019126.cms>

<comment><USER4> I just read the article. Are these people for real or living in an ivory tower? Or are they just fucking lying to the Indian public to spite the $100 MIT Laptop effort? "No one had any doubt about the feasibility of the project. Everyone is enthusiastic and wants a quick rollout. But we have given ourselves three years before the first $10 laptop comes out." That sounds like politician double talk at its finest.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Indian government has really ambitious plans here, I will wait to see that how many of them actually reach to students. The rampant corruption in the bureaucracy in India, make sure that needy students hardly get any advantage of this schemes. Best way to make sure that this laptops reaches the students is to outsource the supply chain to some NGO.

</comment><comment><USER7> This thing is not going to market for Rs. 1500. That much just about gets you a barely usable dumbphone around here, no way it's going to get you a tablet -- even if it runs a free OS like Android.

It's quite an ugly beast though ... anything on the resolution of that display? Looks very stretched to me.

</comment><comment><USER8> This would be an interesting thing to give to students here in the US, where $30 dollars is, at most, a day's salary. In India, it could take a month for a family to earn enough to buy one.

</comment><comment><USER9> Indian bureaucracy will increase the price of this device by a factor of 10.

</comment><comment><USER10> Something like this is an excellent candidate for Android OS. If they just design it with Android in mind they will have quality software and save a huge amount of money since Android is free.

</comment><comment><USER11> I love how happy and proud that guy looks in the photo.

</comment><comment><USER12> more details on this news here <http://bit.ly/9FpaQl>

<comment><USER13> I think the larger device shown in those photos is an iRobot Apad (aka many other things): [http://www.androidpads.com/2010/05/04/the- moonse-e7001-aka-i...](http://www.androidpads.com/2010/05/04/the- moonse-e7001-aka-irobot-the-7-inch-android-ipad-clone-from-shenzhen/)

Not sure about the smaller one, although it looks kinda familiar.

The "Minimum Functionalities expected" certainly looks like something a government bureaucrat wrote. "4. Unzip tool for unzipping zip files." in the same list as "10. Cloud computing option."

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> _The device, no bigger than a conventional laptop, …_ – by which they mean "about 1/4 the size of a conventional laptop"

 _… along with 2GB RAM_ – Almost certainly they mean 2GB of flash.

 _… powered by a 2-watt system to suit poor power supply areas._ – Ok, that's it. You have overspun my ability to respond.

Except, in the picture, I think the man's eyes say "Take the picture already and let me stop touching this ghastly thing!"

</comment><comment><USER15> Please downvote till you actually hear about these being used by real people, not just a fat Indian minister who probably thinks 8 asterisks is his password because that's what he sees on the screen when his secretary open his email for him.

<comment><USER16> Kapil Sibal, the minister holding the tablet has a MA/ LLB from DU & a LLM from Harvard.

<comment><USER17> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapil_Sibal></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Any side projects or startups involved in Framed Prints? - <AUTHOR> I'm looking for some services to provide prints/framed prints from images for gifts/etc. Everything from traditional, to interesting (metallic cutouts/etc).
I thought it might be wise to ask hn for any projects anyone has worked on in this space. So, are there any projects (yours or otherwise) that you find interesting or good for the above needs?
Thanks to any replies! <comment><USER2> This project came by HN earlier today, is something like this what you are looking for?

[https://commits.io/](https://commits.io/)</comment>


Google Latitude will be retiring on August 9th - <AUTHOR> https://support.google.com/gmm/answer/3001634?p=maps_android_latitude&rd=1&print=1

<comment><USER2> Another brilliant move by Google.

1\. Funnel every free service to Google+

2\. Obtain facebook levels of information about everything personal (I mean they already have this most likely)

3\. More ads, more personalization, more Google+

4\. ???

5\. Profit

It's almost like they planned it.

And don't get me wrong, I reasonably like Google (at the very least I respect their technical prowess, and at the most think they're pretty hip) -- just really don't know how well they're accomplishing "do no evil"

</comment><comment><USER3> Latitude was neglected since day one. It never really work reliably. For MONTHS new signups were fubar'd. The API was aways flakey.

The irony is that I hate the surveillance state we now live in yet I wanted to use Latitude desperately. I wanted to give up my privacy and Google didn't seem to care.</comment>


Google AI Education Resources - <AUTHOR> https://ai.google/education/ <comment><USER2> I really like the Introduction to Machine Learning Course that Google has put up on their developer site [0]. It's simple enough that anyone can get into it, while still digging deep enough into the math behind things that it isn't just you learning how to copy and paste code.

Besides reading an actual textbook or learning from an online course like ([https://eecs189.org/](https://eecs189.org/)) which can understandably be somewhat daunting at first, I think this is definitely the next best thing.

[0] [https://developers.google.com/machine-learning/crash- course/](https://developers.google.com/machine-learning/crash-course/)

</comment><comment><USER3> I think it's really cool that Google is so motivated about creating and releasing educational content that anyone can use to become a great developer. Their tech dev guide is also pretty helpful (although in fairness, their cloud education does focus on GCP pretty heavily).

<comment><USER4> Google's play seems to be to encourage more and more folks to learn CS and be interested in learning programming and AI. Google Research, GSoC, PhD research grants, publishing their results in leading journals, and their OSS contributions all point to a company that is a friend of programmers and academics. For these very reasons, the company is viewed very positively outside of SV.

On the contrary, I don't see a similar desire to contribute back from Amazon, Apple, Facebook or Netflix (although the last 2 do contribute a ton to OSS).

<comment><USER5> Most of googles evangelization of tech and AI is a marketing and adoption strategy for google compute engine. Which is fine, but it should be seen for what it is

<comment><USER6> Disclaimer: I am personally benefiting from a long-term Google educational programme.

My response to this is: so what? Of course they're going to encourage new developers to use their products - it's only natural they'd teach their own stuff and not AWS/Azure. Developers aren't really influencers (sadly) in the purchasing for cloud infra so I'm not sure that it's a straight up marketing campaign.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Here is this free course that grants a certificate for the University of Helsinki, [https://www.elementsofai.com/](https://www.elementsofai.com/) it is for beginners, some banks are using it for their staff too.

</comment><comment><USER8> For me the biggest problem, as manager to build AI team, is everyone talks jargons of AI/DL through these kind of courses. How do I find out who knows in depth? Do you have any intriguing questions you have that can quickly separate the wheat from chaff? Is there any Questionnaire on AI/DL that help select (AI expert)/prepare (for Job interview)?

<comment><USER9> Same as you'd select any other professional where you don't know how to do their job.

1) Work experience. 2) Educational pedigree.

There's also the idea you should hire a program lead who does have demonstrated experience, and let them do the technical interviews of their underlings...

At the companies I've worked for doing scientific programming work, during my interview I had to give a presentation to the engineering team over lunch concerning a technical problem and take questions. If a candidate was a fresh graduate we had a requirement they have 1) a Master's and 2) they would present on any research papers they had published, UNLESS 3) they had interned at our company and everyone liked them, then they could skip the Master's requirement.

<comment><USER10> > research papers they had published

I wonder how academic publishers feel about this growing trend to require not just a degree, but now peer-reviewed, published, research papers to get a job. The sentiment behind it is, of course, if you're really smart, you would be published, so if we look for people who are published, we know they're smart. The reality, though, is that once this catches on, journals are going to be flooded (even more than they already are) with desperate attempts to get something, anything, with somebody's name on it since that's another checkbox they have to tick before they can eat. Just like what happened with higher education.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I'm a backend developer who uses Java an GoLang regularly to write back end systems - APIs, workflows, infrastructure, deployment pipelines, etc.

I don't have any knowledge about AI or how to model problems for recommendation systems, or when to use decision trees, versus something else. Is this a skill that I should be actively investing in to not become a dinosaur?

My worry is that in the next 10 or so years, I don't want to end up as a Cobol developer in the world of today i.e., might have a job and good pay, but not being able to work at the next big company or next big idea. What are your thoughts?

<comment><USER12> When databases came by, I bet people felt the same way about them. Now they're a common tool used in most systems, and most devs and engineers will have at least a basic understanding.

My hypothesis is that ML will follow a similar path. It seems like an exotic skill now, but there's already a mass of undergrads familiar with it from their education. We'll still need experienced practitioners to lead projects and architect systems (like DB admins and architects do!). But in some 10 to 20 years, everyone will use ML where appropriate, get some value from it, and it will have lost its hype. There will be some uniquely new capabilities that ML enables, just like DBs enabled storing state at scale, efficiently and cheaply.

<comment><USER6> Indeed. ML won't be the be-all end-all of software engineering, but it'll be a core skill to have significant knowledge about. Even if you're not developing new models, knowing the best practices for using them or extending them is going to be invaluable.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I work as a Mechatronics engineer and I have an interest in AI. I've personally gone through a lot of the online resources out there: 1\. Andrew Ngs Deep learning MOOC

2\. Fast AI parts 1 & 2

3\. The old Google Machine learning course

But, what next?. From my experience, this doesn't give you enough credibility to get you a job interview at even a small sized firm, let alone Google.

Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate all the fantastic AI learning resources out there. Its incredibly enabling, but I feel like I'm missing the point of this - Is it to enable people to start companies using AI based tech, and grow the google compute based ecosystem? If its to grow the number of AI jobs and eligible people for those jobs, I have doubts whether that's actually working, or am I missing something?

<comment><USER14> Surely the easy answer is do something with your knowledge. If you feel you can apply it, then I would say it was useful.

I couldn't imagine reading 3 books on python, and wondering will I get an interview. The question should be, can I write a simple program. Measuring by can I get a job interview is asking the reverse question.

I mean, would you hire you? Can you solve a potential company's problems with your AI toolset.

<comment><USER13> I get what you mean. I've been applying the skillset to Kaggle problems, each of which I imagine contain multiple subproblems which companies might face. But kaggle standings, in my experience, dont seem to be too convincing a metric for job openings.

The problem with the MOOC ecosystem at the moment is there's no clear path forward with them. I'd have imagined the MOOC certifications solving this problem, but I feel networking plays a much bigger role in the job market rather than credibility.

The only exception I see is Udacity, which, by its pricing has created a limited pool of graduates, and therefore are valued much higher

<comment><USER15> Stay away from:

\- MOOCs

\- Udacity

\- Kaggle

I'm not being facetious, this is my honest advice.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Do startup help employees after failure? - <AUTHOR> When startup fails and shutdowns, do those startups help employees for job reference or recommendation letters or job expo ?<p>If yes, how do they do that?, if not, is there any reason for it? <comment><USER2> Good ones always help employees regardless of reason for the transition.

If the company has wound down cleanly the team will have been looking for jobs for 1-2 months before there is no more money and so the founders and executive team will have helped as many of them find soft landings as possible. Generally founders will use their networks, and investors networks to help people get through the door at other companies. They generally provide references and try and do everything reasonable and ethical to get people placed. This includes letting people use company computers to send resumes, use printers, internet access etc.

When companies don't wind down gracefully and fail fast and loud of course most of this doesn't happen. But in those cases where the founders are good people but just made mistakes they will still do all of the above with whatever resources they can.

The team usually also looks out for each other and like the saying goes A players want to work with A players so once one is placed they'll work to help others too.

IMO there is never a reason not to help people in the case of the company winding down. Even if a person was someone who wasn't a top performer you have a responsibility to that person as another human to help them as much as possible.

Why I have seen this go sideways sometimes is when employees start thinking the company owes them all this and a lot more. The reality is the company owes treating you like a human being and trying to do the right thing. But they don't owe you more than is possible or reasonable.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. I just read the interview from Slack CEO today and he was stressing on the point of helping employees, if your startup fails.

So wanted to check, if all other companies also do the same for their employees.

<comment><USER2> You're welcome. I have had to wind a couple of companies down that weren't successful and both times we did everything possible to help the employees and even the couple of contractors we had. I learned this ironically at GE when I worked there early in my career. We had layoffs of staff, both professionals and non-professionals and the level of effort and resources GE had us put into helping those people left a huge impression on me.

One thing I have seen in the startup community over the last 20+ years is generally people do their best to help the employees. Although there are some pretty infamous examples of the opposite, those seem to be the minority.

Also in terms of references, caymanjim is right when it comes to enterprises, but small businesses and startups I find are usually a little more reference friendly to a degree. Personally when hiring people though, I generally skip any reference checks for the exact reason he listed, as they are a waste of time. However, for a critical position I do generally call around to people I know and see if I can learn anything that might affect my decision, but for the average position I wouldn't bother.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks davismwfl. This very good information.

I am working on this side project idea where failing or shutting down startups who want their employees to get job somewhere can create a job board with information about there employees and can share that job board with their networks, VC group companies etc.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Smart companies don't provide references because they can get into legal trouble for it. Even when a company does provide a reference, it's going to be impersonal and worthless.

Good references come from individuals. Some companies might prohibit their employees from providing references, out of the same legal concerns, but many have no policy. And when you're talking about a failed startup, there may no longer be any entity that's concerned. Either way, just get references from specific people you've worked with.

No one at a "job expo" gives a damn about references.

It sounds like you may be early in your career, and are putting too much weight on references. Your average employer never even asks for references, much less checks them. If your resume is one failed startup, you might want to put it on there and try to explain the situation, but if you've got other credentials and professional experience, you can just leave the position off entirely unless it's worth listing due to the duration of employment.

<comment><AUTHOR> What legal trouble might there be for providing references?

<comment><USER3> Saying anything negative can easily lead to a lawsuit (regardless of merit). This creates a reluctance to do anything more than confirm title and dates of employment.

<comment><AUTHOR> understood.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Good ones do help their staff anyway they can, this includes letters of recommendation, industry connects etc.

There are a few that don't bother and in my opinion the fact that they don't care enough about their employees to give them a decent recommendation explains why their startup failed in the first place.

Here's an example talking about the same thing from a startup's perspective that had to layoff employee's: [https://medium.com/@vinit/layoffs-suck-be- less-of-an-asshole...](https://medium.com/@vinit/layoffs-suck-be-less-of-an- asshole-cbae2cdd6a0b)

\- Suramya</comment>