Tech job listings are down 40% on several job boards - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@cameronmoll/tech-hiring-is-down-40-and-nobodys-talking-about-it-3d6f658d9faf <comment><USER2> I am feeling the chill in the circle of companies I know.

Other thing that should be mentioned: a lot of initiatives at a lot of companies over the last two years _just didn 't work._

Feels a bit like we are at the tail end of a pretty big macro cycle of tech companies green lighting big initiatives with optimistic mindset and now a few years later the due bill is coming and the bets just didn't pay off.

Maybe a big example would be Twitter: a few years ago they were straight up hoarding engineers; fast forward to now, what did all this amazing engineering talent get them? Maybe nice code but the engineering they've done hasn't been able to increase users.

The reason engineers get paid well is because of their extreme leverage: just a few engineers can pull off amazing results. But you eventually need the results. And if the results are not there, broadly, then there will be a reentrenchmet.

<comment><USER3> I really don't mean to be rude or disrespectful, but how it "feels" isn't really interesting or relevant to the question of "is tech hiring actually down". The OP presented data to support its claims. The data was (imo) very flawed, but at least it provided something to start a substantial quantitative conversation. I think the OP's argument should be praised for "failing fast." By contrast, the internet of hunches is more or less immune to scrutiny.

I don't know which way the prevailing winds are blowing in tech. I could swap anecdotes with you (a tech investor I had a beer with recently seemed very happy? my giant tech employer and its competitors are doing great!), but I don't think it wouldn't get us any closer to the ground truth.

<comment><USER4> But remember, the plural of anecdote is data [http://blog.revolutionanalytics.com/2011/04/the-plural-of- an...](http://blog.revolutionanalytics.com/2011/04/the-plural-of-anecdote-is- data-after-all.html) If your giant tech employer and competitors are hiring apace, that is a useful data point.

<comment><USER5> The guy who originated the quote is clearly wrong (at least in medicine where it matters)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Disclaimer - This is all gut feeling and anecdotal evidence so feel free to ignore.

I suspect that jobs being posted to smaller niche job boards (such as Authentic Jobs, which I hadn't heard of until this post) is down overall, but this doesn't reflect the state of job availability.

I believe larger job sites are having enough of a network effect that these boards are becoming less relevant. Most tech job seekers I talk to are going one of four routes.

1) LinkedIn (Facebook for job seekers)

2) Indeed (since it aggregates)

3) Direct application (when you know a specific company you want to work for)

4) Recruiters (Let them do the work for you...)

On the anecdotal front (within the past year) I have been contacted twice by recruiters that took me out and bought me lunch to try and woo me to another job and once contacted directly by the CEO of a company who did the same thing. I want to make this point clear; I'm no one special just a regular software dev with 15+ years working experience.

During one of these lunches the recruiter said to me, "It is so difficult to hire qualified developers that I would say there is a NEGATIVE unemployment rate currently."

I have spoke with multiple company owners, CEOs, and others who are in the hiring position and the general consensus is they can't find qualified help.

This is just my experience.

<comment><USER7> I can tell you from my own experience that the "negative unemployment rate" comment is false. I have been unemployed since March, and I've had no less than 12 in-person interviews, some out of state, and countless other contacts all resulting in rejections.

These were positions I am qualified for, and that I know I would have succeeded at. I've been told it would take me 6 months to start contributing to a Python codebase even though I have significant experience in the language and the problem domain for that project. I've been told I have too little experience mentoring a team despite doing just that at my last job. I've been told I don't have enough JS experience for a position that did not ask for any JS experience.

The market right now is poor for a developer without a fancy CS degree, or one without the luck of a golden pedigree from a previous high profile company.

<comment><USER8> Getting reasons for why you're not getting hired from companies is basically not an option- even if they tell you anything it's likely safety speak BS unrelated to why.

As a guy who's been on both sides of the metaphorical table I know what it's like to bomb but it's almost worse when you feel like you did well and then really have no clue, so I empathize with you for that.

From the other side, I implement an everybody says yes hiring scheme. If an interviewer says no we talk about why. We've had most technical no's overturned when the other interviewers relate a positive interaction in a similar technical area and we come to a conclusion that it was as simple as how the question was asked, or maybe that is a specific weakness made up for in another area.

The no's that are almost never overturned are the ones where an interviewer just didn't seem to like the candidate personally. I don't expect everyone to be friends, bristly people are fine if they're generally capable of some team play, but if someone walks out of that room saying I couldn't stand to spend more time with that person than my family, that's it- we're not going to hire.

I don't want everyone on the team drinking from the same kool aid, and we don't have to be friends or even that friendly. We have to be able to work together and get shit done, and if one of my employees I trust enough to do interviews says no, then even a very talented developer isn't going to join the team.

With all that being said, I don't know what kinds of teams you're interviewing for, it may be a niche thing or it could be they don't like you- it's a relationship though, you will eventually find a decent match.

If you want to do a trial run through with me with a no bullshit no PC response as to my opinion on it I'd be happy to carve out some time. Message me on Twitter @ashurexm and we can set something up. You've got to have pretty good skills to get 12 in person interviews in a shortish amount of time.

<comment><USER6> @jakebasile, Whether you take manyxcxi up on this or not; I think s/he is making a great suggestion here. 12 interviews and zero offers is a lot of interviews. A few feedback style interviews with some candid feedback might do you some good. Technical skills aside it is possible you just are not interviewing well.

Also a couple of somewhat related questions.

1) How well are you at reading the interview outcome? Do you leave these interviews thinking you will be made an offer or do you leave with a pretty good idea that a no is coming your way?

2) Rather than waiting for a rejection and then asking "why not", have you tried asking for the "why not" during the actual interview? At the end of almost every interview someone will wrap it up saying something along the lines, "Do you have any more questions?" I have had plenty of candidates ask me (and I myself ask if I'm the candidate), "What do you think I could have done differently today to improve my chance of success with your organization?"

This is usually met with a more honest feedback than the ask after rejection for numerous reasons.

1) Less HR cover my ass BS; after the rejection companies are worried anything they say could be used to sue them.

2) More people in the room so you may get more than one perspective.

3) You haven't yet been rejected so you may also hear some positives; "Well you really impressed us on X, but you could focus more on Y." This can help you to play to your strengths in the future as well as areas you need to work on.

<comment><USER7> Yes, I've replied to them separately. I think it would be valuable as well.

I gave up on trying to gauge the outcome of the interviews. Most of them I thought I did very well on, some above average, and a few I knew went poorly. All of them had the same outcome.

One interview battery in particular stands out. I interviewed at least 6 times over two weeks, some 1:1, some 1:many. I interviewed with the team, an unrelated employee for a culture interview, the VP of engineering, and a C level exec. All felt great, all feedback from the recruiter was positive, but after everything was done I was told the position "wouldn't challenge me enough" or something similar. I was devastated.

I have never thought about asking for interview feedback during the interview. That is a good idea.

<comment><USER9> Are you possibly aiming too low? I know that one thing that is a huge red flag for me is an apparently overqualified candidate.

<comment><USER7> It's tough to gauge, but the jobs I apply for seem right to me based on listed requirements, years of experience, etc.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I don't think I buy the premise. "Tech job listings on one website are down 40%" seems more accurate, and is much less scary. It definitely helps that the author mentions that they track their listings compared to their competitors, but I'm baffled as to why there isn't a graph that covers more than a six- month span when the thesis spans years. If this company has job listing data for multiple listing websites that goes back to at least 2014, that'd be interesting data to look at, but it's not here.

Even then, I'm not sure "tech hiring is down 40%" would be a reasonable conclusion to draw -- it's like saying, "the newspaper only had 15 job listings in it, the American economy must be in the toilet."

<comment><USER11> > I'm baffled as to why there isn't a graph that covers more than a six-month > span when the thesis spans years.

There is. This one covers the last three years for the first half of each year: [https://cdn- images-1.medium.com/max/800/1*ptKtTWdeh0XfGPrWsr...](https://cdn- images-1.medium.com/max/800/1*ptKtTWdeh0XfGPrWsrPt0A.png)

<comment><USER10> That's fair. I should have been more clear -- it's weird to me that chart shows 18 months of data in parallel, rather than just having a line graph that spans the 30 months from the beginning of 2014, and (less so) that it doesn't include the other sites.

<comment><USER12> Volume of job listings on one site over the last 30 months would be measuring far more than the trend in number of jobs. Did the job site add new features? Did they snag a big new customer who consistently posts their jobs there? Did they run a different ad campaign, or more of them? If the company is doing well, it'll probably have a steadily increasing number of job listings over that period, but it doesn't necessarily mean that there are more jobs available overall.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I'm a newer web developer with a few years of full-time experience (and over a decade of hobby experience), but definitely not a "senior" developer. Most job openings I see are for senior developers. I don't really know if this is historically normal, because I wasn't doing much developer job hunting a few years ago.

For the jobs that I have applied to, I would say I am pretty well qualified. I have put a lot of time into my resume to make it clean and legible. I usually spend over an hour writing a cover letter, and I am pretty confident they are interesting, well written, and have a friendly/personal tone without coming across as awkward or over eager.

Despite all of this effort and being pretty well qualified, I never hear back. Not even a rejection letter. Just silence. I have applied to pretty entry- level positions too for which I am overqualified, and also never hear back. Sample size is only about 10 applications, but they were very focused, well matched, high effort applications.

If there is any shortage of web developers out there, companies sure aren't acting like it. It's not even like I would ask very much, I only want maybe $75k since I am currently way underpaid (about ~$50k in a big city).

My guess is that this is just a side effect of unemployment being pretty high (if you look at realistic measures, not the biased official ones). Senior developers are willing to work for less than before because getting a job is harder these days, and less-than-senior developers can't get a job at all because there's only enough spots for the senior level ones.

<comment><USER14> The "Shortage Of Developers" myth just can't seem to die. Software development labor is a market. If there was really a shortage of developers, you'd see compensation rising to adjust, looser restrictions on remote work, role/responsibility incentives, etc, but is this happening?

If anything, there is a shortage of developers who:

\- Have 3-5 years of experience ("Senior, but not too-Senior" engineers)

\- Have narrow-enough skill sets

\- Are willing to settle for a very narrowly-defined role

\- Are willing to live in specific areas

\- AND Are willing to work for the compensation offered

Picky companies can't seem to find these mythical employees in large numbers, so they throw their hands up and declare "shortage of engineers!"

Here are some software engineers that are largely getting ignored:

\- People with 0-2 years of experience

\- People with 10+ years of experience

\- Software generalists

\- Engineers who would also like to broaden their roles/responsibility (+architecture, +project management, +design?)

\- Remote engineers

\- Engineers who demand more than "competitively average" packages

<comment><USER15> >The "Shortage Of Developers" myth just can't seem to die. Software development labor is a market. If there was really a shortage of developers, you'd see compensation rising to adjust, looser restrictions on remote work, role/responsibility incentives, etc, but is this happening?

Yes...? All of this has happened. Twitter has become remote friendly. My employer is 100% no remote but continues to make exceptions and we have 6 or so remote employees now.

Salaries have skyrocket in the last five years. So I'd say...yes, there is a shortage of talented developers.

<comment><USER16> _there is a shortage of talented developers_

"talented" in that context _usually_ means "has the ability of an experienced developer at the salary of a more junior developer."

If you accept that talented software engineers are the people who are simply good at software development then there are plenty - but they're often older, more experienced, and consequently paid more.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I consider StackOveflow's Careers section a good, high quality sample of the job market (mostly US). I have been scraping them for about 3 months now and I see slight increase in job posts.

Here is the data dump: [https://github.com/aparij/soCareers- Data/tree/master/new](https://github.com/aparij/soCareers- Data/tree/master/new)

<comment><USER18> That's really cool! Do you have any visualization of it?

<comment><USER17> Thanks. Not yet, I was just planning to put something soon.

It will be probably at NullException.io (just empty domain right now)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> I call data shennanigans.

There are a _very large_ number of reasons that the number of jobs on a job site could drop, included to but not limited to the fact that people have stopped using OP's very small job site. (It is also suspicious why the OP compared it to 4 other sites which are _unlabeled_ )

That's partially why blogs use large job sites to try so atleast the change is somewhat statistically significant. (but still could be caused by noneconomic issues. From the little bit displayed in the charts, seasonality is in play, which makes looking at a Jan-Jun horizon flawed)

<comment><USER20> I don't find it odd at all that someone in a niche market is both looking at metrics from competitors and _not_ disclosing what companies they regard as "competitors worth tracking." The names that would go with those other lines are exactly where their customers and users might go instead, why publicize them?

<comment><USER19> Intentionaly omitting relevant information for business reasons is a marketing tactic, not a tactic for an analysis that attempt to present itself as serious.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Yup, the signs of a slowdown are there. The smaller startups and companies that use these job boards have cut back on hiring as their revenue growth has slowed down. The next step for them will be layoffs.

The big tech companies are still hiring but being much more selective and limiting how many they hire. By the time some of them start having layoffs, the tech economy will be in free fall for a number of months and it will be too late if you aren't prepared for it.

Many larger companies are starting to put in place policies and procedures that will limit the number of promotions, raises, and bonuses that they give out. These same actions are also intended to expose lower performers more quickly so they can be identified and managed out.

My advice is this: find ways to continue to learn and grow, and keep building skills and making things. Save for potentially long periods of unemployment, and be willing to work very hard to ensure that you're not perceived as a low performer.

Lastly, don't sweat it. These economic corrections are good thing. They can unlock a lot of latent talent, capital, and resources that are being wasted. Just be financially prepared for it and you'll be fine.

<comment><USER22> The sky is falling much?

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> Disclosure: I work on a startup that provides a tool for referrals (rolepoint.com) as well as SaaS that is used by job boards (rolepoint.io). I also gathered job boards in a quite popular repository [https://github.com/lukasz-madon/awesome-remote- job](https://github.com/lukasz-madon/awesome-remote-job)

Couple of things that I noticed

\- more channels - There are at least a dozen of startups like TripleByte, interviewing.io

\- referrals becomes preferred way of hiring. From small companies where majority of hires are made through personal networks to fortune 500 companies (using an external recruiter is a last resort).

\- AngelList, Stackoverflow Careers have matching features and you can learn more about the company.

\- This is an employee market. Companies have to proactive to get employees (hence the 'poaching'). Posting something to a job board is not efficient.

\- More acquihires by US companies happens in Europe, since they have hard time competing with Apple, Google, Facebook etc.

First two points are backed by data.

</comment><comment><USER24> It happens that I collect similar data as well. My data range doesn't go as far as years. Although I've just run few quires for past months. Doesn't look like it Stack Overflow would have a reason to complain. But yes AuthenticJobs doesn't look good.

The chart suggests that he compares AuthenticJobs to similar job boards ~200 job post per month. Stack Overflow Careers is a different league. Numbers averages there 1800 posts per month.

Also, I wrote a counting script for Hacker News' "Who is Hiring" and the results suggesting opposite as well. Plese check this chart [https://blog.whoishiring.io/hacker-news-who-is-hiring- thread...](https://blog.whoishiring.io/hacker-news-who-is-hiring-thread- part-1/#chart-grow)

Disclaimer: I run [https://whoishiring.io](https://whoishiring.io) I scrape them all.

Private opinion. Statements like his are trying to produce shitstorm in an obvious way. There is no bubble where I stand.

</comment><comment><USER25> I get "recruiter spam" pretty frequently. I generally respond with something like "No thanks, but I'll pass along your info if I come across anyone who might be interested." And they generally say "Yes please!"

I now have a list of ~300 recruiters email's that I can give out to anyone who is looking for work :)

<comment><USER26> I would greatly appreciate that list...

<comment><USER25> Send me an email (in my profile)

<comment><USER26> sent, thank you

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Authentic Jobs is one of the more old school places that heavily catered to web design type work. A more accurate assessment of this data may be that web design work is drying up, but we've known that for a while. It's hard to say since they don't mention the competitors they are tracking, but they may serve the same shrinking market as well.

<comment><USER28> I've seen a drastic drop off of jobs on Angel List. In 2013 there were roughly 10,000+ remote jobs available in the US. Today it's down to hundreds. I'd be interested in a full scale research effort.

<comment><USER29> this might be more related to angellist getting its act together and cleaning up expired listings, of which they had thousands

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> No, it's not just you.

Hiring is down across the board; and it is indeed due to poor economic headwinds. Many finance heads are starting to think that all our bailouts in 2007/2008 did were create an asset bubble down the road in equities by providing access to cheap capital, encouraging borrowing for risky investments that are just now starting to sour.

Add to this the slowdown in China, Brexit, Donald Trump, and a volatile oil market and there's just too much uncertainty for companies to staff up right now. Some firms are even quietly issuing preemptive layoffs under the assumption that 2017 is going to be a very bad year a la 2007.

That said, there's still plenty of work for tech workers (someone has to implement those cost savings projects, amirite?). But look for middle managers, marketing folks and sales people to have a bad time as companies look to trim payrolls.

</comment><comment><USER31> On the one hand, we've seen some similar patterns as many seed stage companies have struggled to raise an A.* On the other, it's hard to extrapolate anything from such a small dataset.

Anecdotally, I would say it's also likely that tech companies that ARE hiring are shifting their hiring budget to sources that bring in more qualified candidates. AuthenticJobs is one of the better niche tech job boards, but it's still a job board. We see lots of growing companies that are spending less money on older channels like LinkedIn and job boards and instead, spending money on an applicant tracking system, hiring in-house recruiters, and using services like Entelo, TheMuse, AngelList, Hired, etc.

*We run Underdog.io.

</comment><comment><USER32> "My startup is experiencing a 40% churn" will be a better title for the post.

</comment><comment><USER33> The on-demand gig economy is taking over... aka the "Uber for Web Professionals".

Many companies, SMBs in particular, are discovering they don't need to "own the cow to drink the milk".

It's simpler to post tasks to sites like Fiverr than it is to post a "job description" and hire an employee/contractor.

</comment><comment><USER34> FTA: "June's job report, well above forecasts, suggests the majority of job gains may be happening in areas outside of tech."

Correct, they are occurring outside of tech, in fact you don't need to guess, it says it right there in the report if you read it [1]:

"In June, job growth occurred in leisure and hospitality, health care and social assistance, and financial activities."

The largest increase last month was in "Leisure and hospitality" which added 59,000 jobs. This is basically the hotel industry gearing up for summer which is when most Americans travel for vacation. These jobs don't produce any real economic growth. The economy is not recovering. Today what the media failed to mention is that the unemployment rate actually went up 0.2% to 4.9% (although the more accurate number to look at is the U-6 which went down from 9.7% to 9.6%). Also Average Hourly Earnings m/m went down from 0.2% to 0.1%.

[1][http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm](http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm)

<comment><USER35> >This is basically the hotel industry gearing up for summer which is when most Americans travel for vacation.

Aren't the figures seasonally adjusted?

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> I can tell the number of people who weren't around for the last non-incumbent election.

Every major election year the job market does this. It's worse when it's an 8 year cycle.

Add into it the uncertainty around Trump and Brexit causing economic worries... it's basically there is less risk, so less VC capital, so less startups.

It's a normal cycle.

<comment><USER37> You mean more* risk (not less).

<comment><USER38> Less risk tolerance, I reckon.

<comment><USER36> Right, that was what I was going for.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> I believe this is symptomatic of an industry moving away from job board based recruiting. There has been a significant change in the recruiting sphere and many talent teams are starting to focus more on sourcing and pursuing passive candidates.

</comment><comment><USER40> While there is still room for other considerations, I was a little more skeptical about the headline until I saw the article's source.

If this had been the usual analysis of one of the large job listing aggregators, then I think more of the arguments made here would come into play, but I give this one slightly more credibility since it's a for-pay and "curated" job site.

So I'll put it in the somewhat-more-interesting category.

Back to the author's points, of course perceptions help frame reality, too.

</comment><comment><USER41> It could also reflect that job boards are becoming less and less useful for employers or job seekers. I recently went through a job hunt and enabling my resume on boards like Dice just resulted in a flood of irrelevant recruiter spam. I'm not being overly harsh here either.

When I landed a job (a good one) it was through a posting on the Who's Hiring thread here on HN, and subsequent email/phone conversations and co-working time.

</comment><comment><USER42> Most jobs sites i have used recently are inundated with recruiters all offering/advertising for the same few jobs rather than the companies that are hiring.

</comment><comment><USER43> Maybe job board postings are down 40%

[http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2016/05/06/it-job-growth-slows- tech...](http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2016/05/06/it-job-growth-slows-tech-sector- hiring-up/)

</comment><comment><USER44> From my experience the jobs I have found on "Authentic Jobs" have never been from the tech startups that I actually want to work at, since those primarily use AngelList, StackOverflow, GitHub, weworkremotely, Hacker News etc. to advertise their jobs.

</comment><comment><USER45> The post should have been 'Traffic to authenticjobs.com is down by 40%'?

</comment><comment><USER46> 2 observations:

1) There has been some batten down the hatches.

2) There is migration among boards. (Example: Indeed has become much more relevant than during my last job search. As a hiring manager I need to pay more attention to it.)

<comment><USER47> > Indeed has become much more relevant than during my last job search

Can you expand on this? I've long written off indeed as one of the generic monster.com types that just scrapes stuff from elsewhere and doesn't actually create a fast path to a technical person with hiring authority (vs something like angellist, which does).

It's been a few years though - what's changed? Site looks the same as always.

<comment><USER46> As part of my interview process, I sometimes open with "How did you find us?" and Indeed has come up a lot more than LinkedIn over the past year. Perhaps this is because candidates like that it scrapes from everywhere, or it's algorithms do a better job at narrowing the sea of open positions to relevant ones?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> Occum's Razor might suggest that the reason for this is pretty straightforward -- the downturn in VC funding means fewer dollars of other people's money available for startup salaries.

<comment><USER47> Has a very precipitous downturn in VC funding actually occurred? There's been convincing clatter for awhile now that it's expected, but my feeling was that while it was lower, it wasn't the kind of downturn that would shave 40% off the hiring market.

<comment><USER48> I think it certainly has occurred from the perspective of the early-stage founders making cash allocation decisions.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER49> "Lean" is the new black.

With investors focusing more on hard fundamentals like revenue and profit and a lot less on "hype" metrics like user growth, employee growth, number of baristas on staff and such a lot of tech companies have taken the hint and got down to business. That includes slamming the brakes on hiring and in some cases cutting staff. That's not the only force at play, but it's a big one.

</comment><comment><USER50> Can I request a feature for authenticjobs? Glassdoor rating for every company. It will save a lot of time, and I wonder why nobody has it. Thanks!

</comment><comment><USER29> I still get an absurd amount of recruiter spam...

</comment><comment><USER51> Is it possible that this trend is due to companies taking in more interns and training them as opposed to normal hiring practices?

<comment><USER52> Doubt it. I have literally never ever seen an intern developer trained up in any company I've worked at.

</comment></comment><comment><USER53> Why the surprise?

[http://www.defmacro.org/2013/12/09/learn-to- code.html](http://www.defmacro.org/2013/12/09/learn-to-code.html)

</comment><comment><USER54> I wonder how many companies have decided to hire more junior devs, rather than seniors. In an economic downturn, you still need to keep people in your (human) development pipeline.

</comment><comment><USER55> Posts on [http://angularjobs.com](http://angularjobs.com) are higher than ever. Disclosure/Source: I'm the owner.

</comment><comment><USER56> Who is that job site with the orange line in the graph, they seem to be doing pretty well.

</comment><comment><USER57> This might be happening because Angelist is free and has great candidates.

</comment><comment><USER58> if you need a hacker for hire contact firstname.lastname@example.com

</comment><comment><USER59> If you advertize for a sheep with five green legs, suddenly mother nature will start sending in resumés of people who claim to be exactly that. Therefore, job adverts don't work.

What you need, is a resumé database in which you can search.

In fact, I would personally never, ever react to a job advert. Thousands of people, who do not have the skill set whatsoever, will react too. That will give a completely wrong impression — of levels of competition that do not exist in reality — and drive down compensation for real candidates, who therefore bail out pretty much immediately, or even never react.

Seriously, there is often a good reason why these other people are looking for jobs. It is always the same people looking for jobs. The people whom you really want to hire, are usually not looking for jobs.

You should reasonably assume that people who can really do the work, are already working. The discussion then revolves around why would it be more interesting to work for your company and how much more are you willing to pay for that?

Wisen up and stop wasting your time and money on job adverts.

</comment><comment><USER60> 13 points and no comments...

<comment><USER61> It's quite common for a story to go comment-less on HN for a while while people come up with comments that exceed the scope of "13 points and no comments..."

<comment><USER60> It is quite common, but we don't talk about it.</comment></comment></comment>


Docker and the PID 1 zombie reaping problem - <AUTHOR> https://blog.phusion.nl/2015/01/20/docker-and-the-pid-1-zombie-reaping-problem/ <comment><USER2> Those curious may also be interested in reading the comments when this came up 3 months ago, at [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8916785](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8916785) .</comment>


Feedhuddler – Send RSS feeds to your pocket account - <AUTHOR> https://feedhuddler.com/

<comment><USER2> I've been using IFTTT to do this - Pocket isn't good at handling the volume of RSS items that Google Reader could, but neither am I. And offline reading is killer.

</comment><comment><USER3> It would be nice if it worked with the open source alternative also, Wallabag.

[https://www.wallabag.org/](https://www.wallabag.org/)

<comment><USER4> Thanks for the input. I created an issue for it [https://github.com/mocco/feedhuddler/issues/52](https://github.com/mocco/feedhuddler/issues/52). I haven't looked into wallabag, so I don't now if we are able to do it. The issue will be updated with status as I look into it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I am using IFTTT to add rss feeds to Pocket, but this seems to be less complicated to use!

</comment><comment><USER6> For Instapaper users: I'm doing the same thing with the help of IFTTT.</comment>


Improving cloud security and productivity through IP whitelisting - <AUTHOR> https://www.perimeter81.com/blog/cloud/cloud-security-ip-whitelisting/ <comment><USER2> From my experience people usually use IP whitelisting to prevent spam filters from blocking their messages.

I can see the reason behind using this approach for productivity.

It saves time and hassle for site admins</comment>


Ask HN: What are the biggest wasters of human potential? - <AUTHOR> The first thing that comes to my mind is extreme poverty. It is unfathomable how many "geniuses" we have lost in the slums.<p>What do you think are the biggest "wasters" of human potential and what can be done about it? <comment><USER2> Imo, depression is one of the largest drains on human potential. What can be done? Basic research on mental health patterns so we can understand the input output system and the effects on gene expression.

</comment><comment><USER3> Drug overdoses, which can be decreased with better mental health care, better pain management, and more equitable societies

Accidents, which can be decreased with better public policies, better education, and automation</comment>


Diet Libc author pleads "Please do not port my software to Windows" - <AUTHOR> https://www.fefe.de/nowindows/ <comment><USER2> He makes some good points.

Problem is the average person uses Windows because it came with their PC. They got no idea what free or open source software is or why they should use it.</comment>


Anomos: Censhorship-resistant, Anonymous BitTorrent (Made by a HN'er) - <AUTHOR> http://anomos.info/wp/2009/06/04/presenting-anomos/

<comment><USER2> Making a quick glance a the source code, it seems that this is basically fusing a simple mix-network into a torrent swarm. The clients have basic anonymity from each other (at the cost of a significant bandwidth cost due to the relaying) and the tracker acts as an oracle to hand out paths through the mix network so that peers can exchange blocks.

Here are some basic problems that come to mind:

* The tracker is a SPOF and making its role in the whole operation a distributed one at some future point will be _very_ difficult. If I want to "censor" this system I just DDoS the tracker and suddenly peers can't find each other.

* The tracker is using a simple weighted graph using Dijkstra for the shortest path from A to B. This is good for the swarm resources, but bad for attack resistence. If I want to probe the network and figure out who is who then I start taking out nodes I have connected to and see how the graph re-balances itself to adjust to this disruption. Instead of making the minimum path length a fixed number it should at least include a bit of randomness in the path length to increase the time it will take an attacker to completely map out the network in this fashion.

* The pipes are still not fixed bandwidth and always full. There is no cover traffic here, so in addition to the node by node mapping probe described previously a sufficiently powerful adversary can still black-box large chunks of the network and trivially match up the flows among nodes. Since the relaying has no delay at all this task is made significantly easier. When it comes to anonymity protocols you can trade bandwidth for security (full pipes with a chaffing/winnowing approach to pick real messages out of the cover traffic) or you can trade time for security (packet delay and re-ordering at relay nodes makes large-scale analysis harder), but you have to at least pick one.

Cute, but definitely not secure from TLAs, large network providers, or quite probably from a determined amateur with access to several widely dispersed boxes.

Now here is the real irony in all this: BitTorrent was a stripped down version of MojoNation that eliminated the centralized bandwidth accounting, crypto, peer chunk relaying, and persistence all in the name of moving bits quickly. Over the past six years everything but the persistence has slowly been layered back on through different efforts...

<comment><AUTHOR> Hello, evgen!

Thanks for showing interest in our project, this is exactly the type of feedback we're after!

Your first and third criticisms are very valid.

The first one can hopefully be mitigated by more groups running open trackers, so that there are more places to DDoS.

As for the second, having a central hub actually gives us a lot of room to control the network structure. The path lengths are _not_ intended to be fixed by any means. However, we wanted to get the bare minimum amount of features in place quickly so we could tie our first beta release in with the 20th anniversary of Tienanmen. With the central tracker, we can control the amount of connections per ip, run blockslists and reshape the network periodically as we see fit.

As for the third point, I don't have an answer for you yet. We're still experimenting to minimize tradeoffs in performance.</comment></comment>


Marvel, Jack Kirby, and the Comic-Book Artist's Plight - <AUTHOR> http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/09/marvel-jack-kirby-and-the-plight-of-the-comic-book-artist/498299/?single_page=true <comment><USER2> Huge Marvel fan, love Kirby's work. Very difficult article to digest...</comment>


Monero JavaScript Miner – First Week Status Report - <AUTHOR> https://coin-hive.com/blog/status-report <comment><USER2> Just wondering what is stopping coin-hive from making it mandatory for all their customers or website owners to ensure end user consent is required? They can add it within their ToS. Currently "We hope we can convince website owner to integrate the miner in a way that is more meaningful and honest to their users." sounds quite insincere.

<comment><USER3> From the post, seems like they want to try a technological solution for v2. There are some benefits that make that attractive. I'm guessing the main reason is that this way they don't need a lot of humans to manually review every site for compliance.

<comment><USER2> Manual review is the 2nd step of the process. First they need to add it in their ToS before anyone can be reviewed for compliance. I am sure they might have their reasons for not doing it but their response currently is rather insincere about handling this issue.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15311889](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15311889) is the post linked at the bottom of this article, you should probably comment there.

<comment><USER3> Wow, the quality of those comments is incredibly bad.

<comment><USER5> That is exactly why I discontinued [https://comments.network/](https://comments.network/) , a service to embed HN comments in your page; because HN and HN users thought it might lower the comment quality.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> The page title is Monero JavaScript Mining.

A more accurate title would be "Coinhive WebAssembly Miner Peaked at 5% of Global Monero Hash Rate".

Mods, would it be possible to change that? It's definitely not 5% of the whole blockchain.</comment>


Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property - <AUTHOR> https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200114-why-japan-is-so-successful-at-returning-lost-property <comment><USER2> I experienced this while visiting Japan.

While doing a transfer on the Shinkansen in Hiroshima, I left my camera bag at a noodle kiosk on the platform (around $3k worth of equipment). Didn't realize it until 2 hours after getting on the next train.

When we arrived at our destination, I told my friend we were meeting (a Japanese native) what happened, and she reassured me that it would be right where I left it (said something about there being a "taboo" with the Japanese and touching other people's private property).

So we walked over to the JR attendant and explained what happened, and in no time at all she had the other station attendant on the line who confirmed they found my bag. Just as easy as that.

Then I proceeded to lose my wallet and passport in a taxi, which we recovered just as easily!

Japan is a great country to visit, if while abroad you displace the part of your brain that keeps track of things...

<comment><USER3> On the other hand, the Japanese are inveterate umbrella thieves. So much so that you will find _locking_ umbrella racks in many buildings.

The pressure has to go somewhere.

<comment><USER4> The article hits on this, suggesting that they are viewed as communal property since they're so abundant, cheap and frequently forgotten. Umbrellas are also an on demand item, so can see how this could evolve as a sort of community solution to the rain problem.

<comment><USER5> What is the rain problem? I live in the Pacific Northwest where it rains for 9 months out of the year. Our solution is to not use umbrellas at all. Everyone has a waterproof rain jacket.

<comment><USER6> In Japan and many other parts of East Asia, it rains most during the hottest months of summer. You don't wear jackets when it's 30+ °C and humid outside.

But after living in the region for many years, I agree people also tend to be a bit irrationally afraid of the rain.

<comment><USER7> Ah, but I suppose there are areas with bigger fears of rain. I was hitchhiking through spain and someone who picked me up was a wine farmer, who told stories of people not coming to work, because that day it was raining - in a different village.

<comment><USER8> I've had people cancel meetings with me in San Francisco 'because it was raining'. To be fair the roads here do become significantly more stressful then, but whenever it happens it feels ridiculous. My theory is that whatever the worst 1-2% of weather days per year becomes a weather excuse anywhere in the world. In the Phillipines it had to be bad typhoon, not just a normal one. In London it was moderate snowfall (that wouldn't cause a dent in switzerland for instance).

<comment><USER9> I remember my first visit to California. We were in Santa Cruz for work, and got down to the breakfast room in the hotel and the tv news talked about storms. We looked out and it was drizzling. Walked to the office and got slightly damp, and coworkers thought we were crazy.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> There are both amazingly good and amazingly bad things about Japanese culture.

The shame of being seen to be not honest or respecting people's property leads to amazing responsibility and kindness.

But it also leads to people being depressed and feeling constrained not to be able to break out of societal expectations.

The very things that make us love Japan, would make you go crazy to live there. So enjoy the privilege of being able to visit and experience the benefits, while not having to deal with the downsides.

And maybe it causes you to reflect that, in the US -- the very personal freedoms (i.e. lack of guilt on being disobedient or trying new things) leads to a society where it's more likely you're not getting your wallet back if you leave it somewhere...

<comment><USER11> There was a good blog post about a guy living in Japan.

Here he was in this clean and crime free place, but his bicycle kept getting trashed overnight. Just his bike parked in a sea of other bikes.

He thought it was because he was a foreigner, but finally after he reported it to the police numerous times someone explained the phrase "The nail that sticks out gets knocked down." and pointed out the bikes he was buying were from China.

His bike looked similar to everyone else's bike in the area, but it was made by a Chinese company and there had been news stories about how these bikes were faulty / dangerous / bad (the information apparently was somewhat questionable).

So he bought a proper Japanese bike that looked like the other bikes, and it never happened again.

The contrast of a clean and orderly society with very targeted pressure by random members of society not to do something like buy the wrong bike ... is quite striking.

<comment><USER12> > "The nail that sticks out gets knocked down."

Ever since I first heard this I've kept both this phrase and the phrase "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" in mind at the same time.

Basically, both sides of this coin together ask you "should you speak up?" type of thing; substitute "speak up" with whatever the given situation is.

<comment><USER13> We Dutch have a similar proverb: "Whoever sticks his head above ground level, his head is cut off. "

<comment><USER14> Tall poppy syndrome, which can be oppressive in Northern Europe.

Germany seems more relaxed than the Netherlands, and France seems to be worse. I've had friends telling me their Mercedes got frequently keyed for no reason, and the old Mercedes star on their classic even got ripped off.

<comment><USER15> That's very true in Germany. They do have a lot of freedoms, but they aren't very creative as a society. They fall back on strong adherence to rules and their culture re-enforces it.

See this:

[https://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatlife/10599631/Why- the...](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatlife/10599631/Why-the-green- man-is-king-in-Germany.html)

<comment><USER16> I don't think creativity and adherence to social rules lie along the same axis. Strictures can spur and channel creativity. And the absence of strong normative behaviors doesn't coincidence with greater creativity--there are plenty of countries, mostly undeveloped, where people generally do anything they want[1], but there's not much creativity going on.

As the rest of the world industrializes and the deficiencies and costs of our own social fabric are revealed in comparison, Americans seem to increasingly like to distinguish ourselves as "creative". But it's really just a euphemism intended to characterize our differences in a way that permits us to claim that we're "better" at something. Back when the U.S. was a leading industrial power house, when our democratic institutions were unique, there was no need to identify a specific quality like creativity to distinguish ourselves.

[1] I've been in at least one country where the very _concept_ of a line seemed foreign to most of the people, who were within months or years (not even generations) removed from an nomadic lifestyle. This was qualitatively different than in some other countries with aggressive line jockeying and cheating.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> This smells like a lot of post-hoc rationalization. Collectivism? What about China, which did terribly on this kind of test. Shintoism? Only 3-4% of the population follows that. See [https://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-people- are-honest-los...](https://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-people-are-honest- lost-wallets-experiment-20190620-story.html) where the graphic in the middle of the page compares countries. It appears that Scandinavian countries fare best followed by Eastern European. I would be happy to hear what people at HN think are the real reasons.

For what it's worth, as a scatterbrained person, I think it would be great living in a country with so much trust that I could expect my lost things not to be stolen.

<comment><USER18> Homogenous, nationalistic, small country with high IQ, good education system, high GDP, low levels of immigration, and a culture that emphasizes community.

Oh, and lower levels of inequality, relatively, and a more aligned politics/media system that doesn't foment distrust.

<comment><USER19> Immigration has been steadily increasing in Japan.[1] That homogeneity presupposes trust is a right-wing stereotype used to devalue immigrants in a society and justify harsh enforcement. You can find people of every ethnicity in Tokyo, including many half and full Brazilian people that you could mistake for latinos here in the US[2].

1\. [https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/03/11/national/japan-...](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/03/11/national/japan- sees-record-high-number-foreign-residents-justice-ministry/#.Xh9wNVNKiuV)

2\. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilians_in_Japan#Migration_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilians_in_Japan#Migration_history)

<comment><USER20> > That homogeneity presupposes trust is a right-wing stereotype used to > devalue immigrants in a society and justify harsh enforcement.

The fact it's a right wing idea doesn't mean it's wrong. A nation's laws is written by its people. The fact is different peoples have different cultures and follow different sets of rules. The ideal immigrant is the one who naturalizes and fully integrates into the existing society. What usually happens is they stick together in foreigner groups for mutual support. They maintain their culture and continue living by the same rules they are used to.

It is extremely demoralizing to see people not only break the rules we follow but come out ahead for doing so while escaping any retribution. It's even worse when foreigners do it because it simply isn't part of their culture. If a group of people doesn't litter the streets and foreigners who think nothing of it suddenly arrive, they will be looked down upon.

> You can find people of every ethnicity in Tokyo, including many half and > full Brazilian people that you could mistake for latinos here in the US

A relative minority. Many more japanese live in Brazil than the other way around.

<comment><USER19> >What usually happens is they stick together in foreigner groups for mutual support.

Which is why proactive government outreach and support is so important. Why trust-building is important. People need to understand the VASTLY different role police play in Japan, and they need that information communicated in accessible ways. Harsh enforcement degrades that trust and creates insularity. Immigrants provide benefits to the host countries' economies, but rather than use some of that wealth to create and foster social programs, host country politicians instead use these communities as a scapegoat for the anger generated by austerity's impacts on the working poor.

Countries want the economic benefits of immigrants without the necessary investment in immigrant communities.

>They maintain their culture and continue living by the same rules they are used to.

Every person understands theft and the effects it has. This notion that the immigrant or their community is somehow inherently lesser or more tolerant or capable of anti-social behavior is textbook xenophobia.

<comment><USER20> > Harsh enforcement degrades that trust and creates insularity.

Indeed. It increases the risk associated with being part of that society. I don't know what the correct answer is.

> Countries want the economic benefits of immigrants without the necessary > investment in immigrant communities.

Many immigrants also want the benefits of living in a developed country with a high quality of life without fully integrating into the society that made it possible in the first place.

> Every person understands theft and the effects it has.

Yes, but the rules and consequences for violating them are not universal. Depending on where they come from, violence may be an acceptable way to resolve conflicts. In some circles, people are immediately held accountable for their actions. In other circles, they might be quietly excluded from a group.

> This notion that the immigrant or their community is somehow inherently > lesser or more tolerant or capable of anti-social behavior is textbook > xenophobia.

Not _all_ immigrants will be like this but it is a mistake to simply ignore their background. Every immigrant has the potential to naturalize but it is also important to think about what could happen should they fail to integrate.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> I found this similar mentality in Korea where you can leave your laptop, phone, etc. at a cafe completely exposed on a table while you go to the restroom or even out to lunch. When you come back your stuff will still be there.

As I live in NYC, this completely blew my mind and I still felt that anxiety and awkwardness just leaving my stuff to go use the restroom. Near guaranteed theft in NYC lol.

\---

And to add another story. A friend and I were traveling in Japan a few years ago. My friend had the lucky privilege of forgetting his backpack (with laptop, passport, all the not-fun-stuff to lose items) not once, but twice during the trip.

The first time, he forgot it on the train ride to Osaka (left it on the rack above the seats). The bag went all the way to the end of the line. 4 hour round trip to get it back, but we were super surprised.

Second time was the day we were to fly back. He left it on the train platform bench (!!!) for that non-stop ride to Narita. That feeling of dread when we started moving and he realized he had to wait at least an hour before he could contact anybody about it.

Long story short, he took the 1 hour train back and it was still sitting there. Missed the flight, but got everything back safely. Amazing.

<comment><USER22> I worked in NYC coffee shops on a daily basis for 2 years (and Toronto and SF for more years). Whenever I went to the bathroom, I just asked a random person nearby if they would make sure no one walked off with my stuff. I never had anything stolen, and the people I ask don't seem bothered in the slightest. It's a very small burden, and I think there's something pleasant about having someone put their trust in you.

<comment><USER23> > I worked in NYC coffee shops on a daily basis for 2 years (and Toronto and > SF for more years). Whenever I went to the bathroom, I just asked a random > person nearby if they would make sure no one walked off with my stuff.

Used to do this as well (NYC) till I realized nobody was going to be pulling John Wick stunts to keep my five year old laptop from being taken away. Now I just make sure I'm not right near an entrance and leave my stuff with reasonable confidence. YMMV of course.

<comment><USER24> Personally I'd pipe up if someone asked me to watch a laptop and another person made a move on it. In a crowded store full of witnesses, that's all it would take to deter a thief.

<comment><USER23> Fair point. Especially given such a crime would be pretty opportunistic.

That being said, this does remind me of the stunts pulled to get Ross Ulbricht's laptop:

> To prevent Ulbricht from encrypting or deleting files on the laptop he was > using to run the site as he was arrested, two agents pretended to be > quarreling lovers. When they had sufficiently distracted him,[30] according > to Joshuah Bearman of Wired, a third agent grabbed the laptop while Ulbricht > was distracted by the apparent lovers' fight and handed it to agent Thomas > Kiernan.[31] Kiernan then inserted a flash drive in one of the laptop's USB > ports, with software that copied key files.[30]

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Ulbricht](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Ulbricht)

I do think if anyone was that determined to get my laptop they probably deserve it.

<comment><USER25> Wow, this guy got a double life sentence plus 40 years for "money laundering, computer hacking, and conspiracy to traffic narcotics"? He could have gotten a lighter sentence if he had carried out a mass shooting.

And how did the flash drive trick work? Was he running Windows on that laptop? Very bad idea.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> When I was living in Japan, i once lost my wallet on a bicycle ride. It must have fallen out of my pocket somewhere on the route i was taking.

I didn't notice it was missing until I got home, got my keys out to open the door and realised the wallet was missing. I went back out on the bike and retraced my route but couldnt see the wallet annoyed that I would have to cancel cards, get a new ID card.

After I got home again, i was procrastinating about cancelling the cards for about 30mins and then decided to crack on. After I picked up the phone to start, the front door bell rang, I opened the door and there were 2 ladies with my wallet, they handed me my wallet, asked me to check everything was there and then apologized for taking so long to return my wallet.

Apparently they found my wallet, went to an address I had left in there, but I had recently moved apartments, so they went to the Koban, Police officer told them my address based off my ID card and then they came to my address.

<comment><USER27> Well, would you look at that privacy leakage there.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> _" What's in it for the finder to be honest enough to hand in the item?"_

By asking this question, you deny yourself access to its answer.

<comment> GuB-42 Why? That's the kind of question that makes up the entire field of game theory.

In every situation, the most natural strategy is to maximize personal gains. That's how natural selection works. But when people don't act like that, it means there must be some opposing force, normally one that benefits society. There is a lot to learn here, in fields as diverse as biology, economics, computing, and of course, games.

<comment><USER29> > In every situation, the most natural strategy is to maximize personal gains.

The iterated prisoner's dilemma begs to differ.

There are many many situations where cooperation is both natural and optimal.

<comment><USER30> The iterated prisoner's dilemma does no such thing, as it's scored by maximizing personal gains.

It does point to the advantages of not defecting on players who cooperate.

<comment><USER31> What's fascinating about the iterated prisoners dilemma is there is no optimal strategy as the optimal strategy changes depending on the distribution of strategies in play.

The best you can do if you have no idea what strategies are in place is to employ Tit For Tat (I think?) as it's optimal under the largest number of conditions but not all the time.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> It's not quite at the level of Japan, but Aftenposten, which is a newspaper in Norway, conducted a test [1] (translation [2]) in Oslo where they "lost" 20 wallets. 15 eventually returned.

Personally I've lost my wallet twice and it has been returned both times.

It is nice to be able to trust your fellow citisens somewhat :)

[1] [https://www.aftenposten.no/okonomi/i/zlOb/slik-gikk-det- da-a...](https://www.aftenposten.no/okonomi/i/zlOb/slik-gikk-det-da- aftenposten-mistet-20-lommeboeker)

[2] [https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https...](https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aftenposten.no%2Fokonomi%2Fi%2FzlOb%2Fslik- gikk-det-da-aftenposten-mistet-20-lommeboeker)

<comment><USER33> The Toronto Star tried the same thing in Toronto. 15 of 20 were returned. (One minus the cash.)

[https://www.thestar.com/life/2009/04/25/we_left_20_wallets_a...](https://www.thestar.com/life/2009/04/25/we_left_20_wallets_around_the_gta_most_came_back.html)

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> The abundance of "police boxes" in Japan, small satellite police stations, probably helps a lot.

While living in Japan, I found a lost wallet on the street, in the gutter. That wallet was sitting just down the street from the police. Line-of-sight. Picking up the wallet and taking it to the station was immediately obvious and convenient.

<comment><USER35> I love the police boxes. When I was in Japan the officers helped me a lot with directions and reading maps.

<comment><USER25> That's totally different from America, where police will get pissed and yell at you to get lost if you ask them for directions. (Speaking from personal experience)

<comment><USER35> I know! I didn't even have to ask for help in Japan. I think seeing a tourist holding a map is all they need to spring into action. Gotta keep those tourists out of trouble.

I like how police officers in other countries look like normal humans and not stormtroopers. Makes me feel safe.

<comment><USER25> >I like how police officers in other countries look like normal humans and not stormtroopers. Makes me feel safe.

Yep, I feel exactly the same. The police in Japan look very professional, and not at all like stormtroopers; the shirt and tie they wear just isn't something you'd wear into combat.

See: [https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.3451993.1523010914!...](https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.3451993.1523010914!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_620_330/image.jpg)

Versus: [https://www.wsj.com/articles/americans-respect-for-police- re...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/americans-respect-for-police-reaches- highest-level-since-1967-poll-finds-1477344780)

It also helps that police in other countries don't just shoot first and ask questions later, like American police: [https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world- asia-pacific-38534288/wrap...](https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia- pacific-38534288/wrapping-people-in-futons-how-the-japanese-police-confront- violence)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> "Tamura describes the concept of 'hito no me'; the 'societal eye'. Even without a police presence, no theft will occur while there is hito no me. But left in a place where there is no one watching, thefts do occur."

"Likewise, in Shintoism everything, from rocks to trees, possesses a spirit. While organised Shintoism is a minority practice in Japan, omniscient objects permeate the culture....if you are always being watched and your natural disposition is to think of others first, it is natural that you would be bothered to hand in the lost item."

The concept of "standing out" is a bit foreign in collectivist cultures like Japan, and getting blamed/shunned/etc for stealing would be mentally taxing.

<comment><USER37> That is how I analyzed it for the most part since there was such a wide variance between countries. Eastern Europe really stood out to me and I believe that may have to do with a generation of people that were used to the surveillance state of post-communist society.

In the US, the social impact generally means little, however the economic and time one matters a lot (via jail or fines). Post-communist states might be still conditioned to live in a culture where people are used to corrupt police that ENSURING you have nothing damning is far better than taking a risk and dealing with getting out of that.

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> > In a study comparing dropped phones and wallets in New York and Tokyo, 88% > of phones "lost" by the researchers were handed into the police by Tokyo > residents, compared to 6% of the ones "lost" in New York. Likewise, 80% of > Tokyo wallets were handed in compared to 10% in New York.

Wow!

</comment><comment><USER39> My phone slipped out of my pocket on the subway on my last night in Tokyo. Realized 20 minutes later, talked to some employees and described what kind of phone it was (a cheap Samsung, really not a big deal), gone as can be. Flew back home to Miami.

Received my phone back in the mail a month later. A friend of mine there kept checking with the employees and it eventually showed up in lost and found. Refused to allow me to pay for the international shipping.

</comment><comment><USER40> My first day in Japan I fell asleep on the train. I woke up to a train employee telling me to leave the train. I grabbed my bag and left in a daze, only to realize too late that I left my duffle bag on the top shelf. I reported it and was assured that it would be found. 2 weeks later they still hadn't found my bag but kindly told me that it must have been a Korean.

Um. Well, that was 20 years ago. I'm sure things are different now.

<comment><USER41> I loled at that `must have been a Korean` comment.

History of Koreans in Japan has a complicated story. But basically ethnic Koreans are treated as a second class citizen in Japan.

A Korean-American friend told me this story. He worked with a Britain/Ireland born coworker who was working in US at the time. Blond, European. He traveled fair bit to Japan. He knew this guy was Korean-American and in a conversation he asked the Korean-American why Japanese didn't like Koreans.

The EU guy said when he visited Japan in 2000, Japanese told him they didn't like Koreans.

And than in 2005 or so, he heard from Japanese that they liked Koreans.

In what context the Japanese told a blond European guy why they liked or didn't like Koreans is unknown.

This EU born coworker was confused what changed in that 5 year period.

<comment><USER42> > This EU born coworker was confused what changed in that 5 year period.

Could be this guy: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bae_Yong- joon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bae_Yong-joon)

Or more seriously, a series of Korean dramas that somehow gained immense popularity in Japan. Bae, nicknamed Yon-sama, became so popular that Japanese prime minister (Junichiro Koizumi) joked that he wanted to be like Yon-sama.

<comment><USER41> Yup, I looked up and sure enough 'Winter Sonata' TV series was shown in Japan in 2003.

Irony is that of the 10 richest peeps in Japan, 2 are Korean descent. One owns big chain of pachinko. [https://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-pachinko- gambling-ja...](https://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-pachinko-gambling- japan-2018-7)

The other is Masayoshi Son

Both were denied the path to a stable salary career life time job at a big firm and so they went on their own way.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> Funny this story should come up now.

Two days ago I was on my regular running route and I saw a wallet on the ground. It had 5000 yen (around 50 USD) sticking out of it. The weather was a bit damp and it was far from a police box so I didn't want to risk getting randomly stopped and searched on my way to hand it in so I just put it on a fence post and went on my way.

I run the same route everyday, so when I ran the next day lo and behold, the wallet was still there, complete with 5000 yen note sticking out. I'm curious if it will still be there on today's run.

<comment><USER24> Is getting randomly stopped and searched a concern?

<comment><USER43> It doesn't happen that often but it does happen. Foreign residents are required to carry a resident card at all times and the police are allowed to check for it. This can come with a search.

Japanese nationals don't need to carry any form of ID by law, so you can see that how the police choose who to stop might be somewhat problematic.

<comment><USER44> I lived in Japan for over 3 years and I was never stopped. It can happen, technically, but I don't think it happens all that often.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> I think part of this is that a far greater proportion of "lost" valuables in Japan are _really_ lost than in other countries, street crime being pretty rare.

But still, that 6% figure for New York! Can it be true? Is it really normal to steal other people's shit if they leave it behind?

<comment><USER46> Just as an anecdote from a NYC resident, a couple years back I found a Japanese woman's wallet on a commuter bus. From the address I saw that the owner lived in my neighborhood so I went by her home after work to return it. Nobody was home so I left a little note with my phone number. She called me, and I met her the next day to return it to her. I considered our business concluded but about two months later she and her husband sent me a Christmas card with a gift card inside. I thanked them but sent the gift card back.

I have also lost my own wallet on multiple occasions when I was younger and more careless, and I would say it was returned maybe two out of five times. Not great, but not that bad either.

<comment><USER47> I don't know about Japanese culture, but where I'm from accepting the gift would be the polite thing to do (vs rejecting it).

<comment><USER48> Yeah, spending postage and effort to return a $20 gift card (or whatever it was) is so rude. I'm not sure where in the world that wouldn't come off as rude.

<comment><USER49> > From the address I saw that the owner lived in my neighborhood

Probably went on his foot

<comment><USER46> Since they sent me a Xmas card, I reciprocated in kind, also enclosing the gift card with a note apologizing but asking that they give it to a needy person at their church during the holiday season. (They had also sent me an invitation to attend services.) So no additional postage needed.

<comment><USER25> If they attend a church, they are really odd for Japanese, since almost no Japanese are Christian (at least in Japan).

<comment><USER50> they represent about 1% of population (see [https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Asia-Insight/Pope- Francis-...](https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Asia-Insight/Pope-Francis- Japan-visit-spotlights-a-safe-haven-for-Catholics)), seems to me that "almost none" is bit strong :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> Honest question: Do folks feel warm fuzzies when they do something "good / +ve"? Frankly unless I went out of my way to do something significant, I don't feel anything. Asking as there might be some of that going on here.

For e.g., around Christmas here in SF, I was a at a shopping mall parking lot waiting for my wife to return. I noticed a man counting a few bills of cash. He counted and then turned to head to his car. As he turned he dropped a couple of bills. I just shouted out to him to bring it to my attention so he could get it. I don't feel anything about the incident and would be hard pressed to use it as a barometer of my character.

<comment><USER52> Likely a few dollars means nothing to you so the act of pointing the nearly lost dollars is a similar small task (not withstanding the possibility the act could have a profound effect on the recipient depending on their situation).

When I was younger and we were struggling hard, we found a wallet in a store loaded with green bills. That money would have had immediate, real, positive impact for us, like gas money and food that we did not have. We turned in the wallet and did not bother counting the bills. The cashier might have pocketed the money, who knows. But hopefully the owner of the wallet got their stuff back. I think that act does cast a barometer on my and my wife's character. We did what was "right" \-- the property was not ours and not ours to take. Did we feel good about it? Nope! It was just doing the right thing even though there was a touch of pain to it.

<comment><USER53> Why did you give the wallet to a random person you had no reason to trust when you could have looked at the address on the ID in the wallet and taken it there yourself?

<comment><USER52> Solid question. We did not have a vehicle to deliver nor a way to pay postage to mail them their wallet. Also, naive youth - we just hoped the store clerk would do the right thing when the person came back looking for their wallet.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER54> I remember forgetting an umbrella in a restaurant in Tokyo, and being chased down in the street by someone returning it. It was pretty amazing.

</comment><comment> enahs-sf Anecdotal evidence here: Went to Japan, was out in a crowded area after dinner. A woman's wallet fell out of her pocket as she walked along. Literally a crowd of people rushed to pick it up and give it back to her. Never seen anything like that. One of many strange phenomena observed on the streets of Tokyo at night.

</comment><comment><USER55> Yes, it is very impressive. I lost my prepaid card (Suica card? withou name or password stuff) with tens of thousands of Yen in Tokyo's Disneyland train in last year. After half an hour, a sweating Metro staff found it and returned to me.

</comment><comment><USER56> The article attributes this characteristic with Buddhism and collectivism without much comparative evaluation, and I find the explanation utterly unconvincing. For if it is Buddhism and communalism that led to such societal behavior, why is it that its neighboring largely Buddhist and largely collectivist East Asian and South-East Asian neighbors don't exhibit such characteristics? A proper argument in terms of "cultural history" needs to account for comparative evidence.

Interestingly when I encounter this kind of sloppy "cultural history" reasoning it is from a BBC article.

</comment><comment><USER57> Little-known tip: in the US, if you happen to find a lost wallet that contains an ID, you can just drop it in the nearest postbox and the USPS has the duty to attempt to return it to its rightful owner. Here's the relevant page of the postal code: [https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/507.htm](https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/507.htm)

<comment><USER58> Given what I've seen and also have personally experienced with postal employees, I wouldn't place much trust in it, for example:

"USPS loses about $1800 of packages from store.rossmanngroup.com :(" [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4CCuMg6jXI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4CCuMg6jXI)

</comment></comment><comment><USER59> I don't think you can point the reason for this on one specific cause, and better bundle it up as "culture".

I've wonder if this is also the cause for the low appreciation for privacy in the Japanese society. I've noticed that the Japanese seems to be more "ok" with the idea of Google/Facebook/Line/big company snooping around and collecting your data, even engineers. It is also culturally more accepted to point out physical feature and ask private questions in this country. "you've become fat!", "Why don't you have a girlfriend/boyfriend?", "you speak/walk/do something very weird" is comments you can get from both relatives, co-workers and not-so-close friends.

The typical "mind your own business" attitude you expect in the west seems to not be as prevalent here, and the "If you have nothing to hide, you don't need anonymity and privacy" is an argument most people consider to be valid here.

</comment><comment><USER60> its funny that this article is part of a japan 2020 olympics feature, when there will surely be an increase in crime and bad behavior due to all the 2020 visitors.

</comment><comment><USER61> i lost a phone in shinjuku station and located with the help of the station employees within 30 minutes. somehow they did this location act in the busiest subway junction in the world, with just a few phone calls.

</comment><comment><USER62> Proves that honesty is really about being well trained. Which in America at least is the backbone of many, many unsolved problems . A entire culture based upon education and training only going to who is approved by the State and Capital, instead of training young people because they are young, and people.

</comment><comment><USER63> discipline, education and culture

<comment><USER64> > discipline and culture

Monoculture

<comment><USER65> Do you say that with a negative or positive tone ? It's hard to tell from your answer. And if so, why ?

<comment><USER66> I took it as an observation or speculation of cause and effect. There is no judgement (positive or negative) needed for this.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER67> I was in Japan in 2008 and we didn't have an umbrella, when someone from a store gave it to us I felt so happy and thankful from the store how come a random person be so nice, couldn't believe how they went from Naijinh to Pokemon in one generation

</comment><comment><USER68> I notice that this story and the story about Carlos Ghosn's escape from Japan are both on the front page of HN.

Lucky for Ghosn, the rest of the world is less successful at returning Japan's lost property.

</comment><comment><USER69> I love Japan and the mystery continues with its fascinating culture.

</comment><comment><USER70> Britain is bad at returning stolen property. Eg Kohinoor

</comment><comment><USER71> Because they care about others</comment>


Show HN: Single JavaScript API Client for sheet2api.com - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/odwyersoftware/sheet2api-js <comment><USER2> This isn't what it sounds like. Based on the post title and the repo name I thought this was a library that could read and write data from Google Sheets and MS Excel Online. It's not that. It's a library to use sheet2api.com, which is a proxy to read and write JSON data from Google Sheets and MS Excel Online. All of your data goes through a 3rd party service. That is significantly different.

The title really should be "Show HN: Single JavaScript API Client for sheet2api.com"

From a JS front end dev perspective it's not actually very good as a library. There's literally no error handling at all (it just passes you the error from XMLHttpRequest; it could do so much more), there's no auth, and it's based on the old XMLHttpRequest API rather than the more modern, and much better in my opinion, fetch() API.

<comment><USER3> > it's based on the old XMLHttpRequest API rather than the more modern, and > much better in my opinion, fetch() API.

I fail to see what is wrong about it.

<comment><USER2> XMLHttpRequest is callback based and has an _interesting_ API. fetch was written to be a sensible replacement. It does nice things like supporting promises by default and handling request cancellation.

<comment><USER4> XHR and fetch were in a "old thing is deprecated, new thing is not ready" sort of state for the longest time.

XHR always supported aborting requests, along with progress callbacks. Also, IE11 doesn't support fetch, so you'd need to bring in a polyfill for it and for Promise there. (And FormData, and Blob and etc, if we're talking full spec compliance)

Considering this history, I wouldn't dismiss an XHR-based implementation so fast.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Nice, this looks like something i might use to mock an api server in the early stages of a project.

<comment><USER6> You're better using Postman for this case: [https://learning.postman.com/docs/designing-and- developing-y...](https://learning.postman.com/docs/designing-and-developing- your-api/mocking-data/setting-up-mock/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> I think authorization is the most important part to avoid randos flood your "database". Otherwise, why do not just use the Google Sheets API.</comment>


The Shareware Scene, Part 2: The Question of Games - <AUTHOR> https://www.filfre.net/2020/05/the-shareware-scene-part-2-the-question-of-games/ <comment><USER2> My teen years right there; brings back the feels. I became a programmer just a little too late to ride this wave, or perhaps I just didn't have the ambition. I found a spreadsheet of my shareware sales on a 3.5" floppy disk just a couple days ago. My most famous shareware program, ButtonWiz, was making $130 per month in 1998 or so. I think shareware only had a few years of life left in it. I'm happy that I was able to participate, in some small way, in an amazing era.

<comment><USER3> If you think of shareware now as "free with in-app purchases", it's probably never been stronger (or more profitable).

<comment><USER4> One of the defining traits of shareware is that you could give someone a copy of such software. The modern App Store is not really like shareware in that sense. A curated walled garden is a bit too restrictive for the true shareware concept, IMO

<comment><USER3> In the pure sense I agree. I'd much rather be able to get apps from anywhere or anyone. Trying to give friends iOS games I'm working on is a major pain. At least with Android I can upload an APK somewhere.

The original purpose behind giving anyone a copy was advertising and distribution, which is done differently nowadays. Rarely does anyone I know give someone a thumbdrive or equivalent of a piece of software, instead a website or app store link is shared.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Shareware strikes me as too precarious of a compromise to last long as an industry. It makes sense that in the longer term it would split into F2P games and Open software, which are both better at maximizing the distinct virtues of shareware

</comment><comment><USER6> Only about 25 years too late, but I just bought a copy of Excelsior that I played to death in highschool. I might still have my graph-paper maps of that darn tower where you could only see the 8 squares around you...</comment>


Tips for Overcoming Shyness at Conferences - <AUTHOR> http://spin.atomicobject.com/2013/10/12/shy-conference/ <comment><USER2> In the (un)luckily case you have to speak... I memorize word by word the first 2 minutes of the speech, which is usually who am I, the table of contents, and the begin of the first slide (it may seem trivial, but it's often where people judge and classify you as someone to be listen to or a dumb).

This makes me confident that I won't say weird things and completely loose everybody. At the same time, this is enough to get the body relax and used to the audience.

<comment><USER3> I tend to write out an entire presentation like a script, and then try and come up with one keyword that would remind me on how to speak on that topic.

Once I have the keywords I then try and incorporate that word into the slide somehow as a memory trigger.

I never expect to recite the script, but having written it out in full allows me to make sure I've hit all the key talking points.

(This technique tends to work for me because I try and reduce the number of words on the slides I use as much as possible)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> As a former wallflower who now routinely gets mistaken for an extrovert, I just want to encourage us introverts out there that being social is a skill, just like marketing, programming, or reading. As with any skill, some people are born naturals and others have to work at it a bit more, but you CAN improve if you set your mind to it. The frustrating thing is that often us nerds spent all of high school learning advanced chemistry and how to code in 3 different languages while everybody else spent it improving their social skills (parties!)—so we have to catch up with everybody else.

But you CAN catch up. And it's worth the attempt. Some of my best clients are people I introduced myself to; some of my best friends I met by just throwing myself out there in a large group.

3 years ago nthj was afraid he was wired this way and could never change. If he had just known that eventually he would, I think the struggle would have been a lot easier.

<comment><USER5> Just curious, how old were you when you made the big switch?

I wonder if it's one of those things that's harder to learn the further along in life you are, like learning a foreign language, learning to code, playing an instrument, etc.?

<comment><USER6> There's no magic. Sit down and draw up a list of:

        * 5 ice breaker questions (you don't need more, 1 is really enough but us geeks feel guilty reusing conversation where good conversationalists reuse everything all the time)
        * 10 general life stories about you from completely different aspects.

Now practice telling these. Deliver them slower than you think is right because you'll naturally tend to aim for efficiency but what you should aim for is being interesting.

Use open body language in the mirror while practicing.

Smile.

I think anyone can do this really and this puts you in the top 25%. Seriously even normal less techie people are terrible at this too so have heart!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> The first point, getting to know people online before meeting them, is super helpful. It's nice to be able to instantly know a few people right when an event starts off.

<comment><USER8> Right! The problem is sometimes to find out who is coming. That is why FB groups like Y Combinator's Startup School 2013 ( [https://www.facebook.com/groups/705664592796188/](https://www.facebook.com/groups/705664592796188/) ) can be so useful.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I would also suggest volunteering for conference setup/take-down, if possible.

</comment><comment><USER10> I found the bigget opportunity for conversation was also the most awkward time for me in the past - lunches and breaks at an 8-10 person table. Most people sat around quietly, or talking to people they worked with. I always waited for someone else to start a conversation with me, until I realized most other people are doing the exact same thing, which led to very little conversation. Now, I will try to engage the other people at the table by asking about their job, or the presentations they've seen. Usually people are relived at having someone talk to them without staring the conversation themselves. It does however require taking that first step of initiating, which can be the hardest part.

</comment><comment><USER11> My #1 tip - if you enjoyed a speaker, search them out and tell them. You'll be likely run into other like minded people who also enjoyed the presentation.

</comment><comment><USER12> I co-chair O'Reilly's Fluent conference (JS/Web Platform/etc) and we're always trying to come up with ideas to help ease interactions between attendees. I don't know if I should, but I feel a little guilty if I think attendees are not connecting and getting what they want from the event.

A random blast of things I've observed or that we're doing/trying..

I don't know where it originated, but O'Reilly always has 'bird-of-a-feather' (a.k.a. BOF) tables at their events either during registration, at lunch, or in the evening, where people are encouraged to get together to talk on specific topics related to the conference. A lot of people seem to dig these because they remain technical but they pretty much say 'whoever you are, you're welcome here!'

For 2014, we're going to try having actual 'BOF sessions' during the main program on various topics (Angular, Ember, HTML5 gaming, etc) with official teams or representatives present, but the whole goal is just to get attendees together and chatting in an easy, non-threatening environment.

One of the conference team also came up with the idea of trying a 'speed networking' at the last event. It went OK with about 50 people turning up and spending 30 seconds talking to each other person. I found it quite exhausting as an introvert but it definitely made me feel more connected with the attendees.

Another thing we found had a good effect at this year's event was our evening 'Ignite' event (a lightning talk format that has events of its own all over the world). The mood is more informal, drinks are on offer, etc, but there's still a structure to it and some entertaining talks too.

There was also a pre-conference mixer at a local bar but I didn't enjoy this as much because, well, I don't really like drinking or standing around at bars, but I did get to chat to a lot of people.

I've noticed that many attendees actually like a well targeted, friendly- feeling expo/exhibit hall. If the people representing the attending companies are actually in the community or are just genuine, friendly people, they can make for good (but temporary) company. We've run something called the Startup Showcase in the exhibit hall where startups using JavaScript got to show off their products/apps in a chance of winning a prize. I had some of my best tech conversations chatting with all of these folks who were keen to show off their work. I think going even further with the "expo" style of things would work well for us as it's a sort of interaction I personally dig. We also had a giant chess board and similar things set up which brings people together.. watching two competitive researchers from Microsoft playing chess in a 30 minute break is quite something ;-)

I'm mostly sharing these points in case anyone finds them useful in implementing their own extra social activities at formal-ish tech conferences, but I'm also keen to hear what else works at similar events because both I and the O'Reilly conference team are keen to consider new ideas and make the event fun while keeping our eye squarely on the ball of being a serious, tech- focused event.

Sorry for the ramble, but I'd love to hear if any of the ideas click or clash with anyone, as we're always trying to learn and experiment.

<comment><USER3> Those bird of a feather tables sound like a great idea. I'd love to go to a conference with that kind of setup.

<comment><USER13> Seconded! I feel like it's hard to strike up conversations at tech events, especially with most people squirrelled away scarfing down mediocre pizza. Having some open-ended topic-based discussions would be great.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Some very good tips. Really work yourself up from small groups. Also you may sometime fall back and start having problems again. I get a shaky voice from time to time. Be gentle to yourself and just laugh it off. If people like you, they will be even friendlier after you've shown some vulnerability, since it makes you real and authentic.

</comment><comment><USER15> There are also good tips at [http://www.slideshare.net/sachac/the-shy- connector](http://www.slideshare.net/sachac/the-shy-connector) \- I like "give ppl a reason to talk to you", in the past I've given a unconf talk just to get discussion going.

</comment><comment><USER8> Also interesting for shy people at conferences: [http://www.slideshare.net/mprofs/networking-tips-for- introve...](http://www.slideshare.net/mprofs/networking-tips-for-introverts- visual-sketch-notes)

</comment><comment><USER16> I actually don't recommend _preparing_. I believe in odds. I met a couple really interesting people at a recent hackathon. Guys were standing behind me and asked me and my friend question about our conversation.

And I feel like preparing yourself to find new people to talk to at a conference/meetup is kind of weird. I go to meetup to meet new people and learn new things, but I rather do this naturally by immersing myself into the atmosphere. If I don't have anything special to ask / to look for other than attending a talk, I'd just go home. There is nothing wrong with that. It's perfectly fine.

The best time to socialize is before the beginning of a talk and when you are in a line for refreshment like pizza. Haha

<comment><USER17> I'm sure that works very well for you, but you don't sound like the introverted kind of person that this article was aimed at. Preparing to find new people and talk to them does sound weird when you say it out loud. For people like me, though, just meeting new people is the pinnacle of weird. I need to get myself ready for it or I'll never pull it off.

<comment><USER16> I don't know if it's right to say we can feel each other's pain. I am not really that shy but definitely not the kind would go up and spark a new conversation every 2 minute with people.

I guess what I disagree with is the notion that "you have to talk to people when you are at a conference or at a meetup."

That's one thing called social pressure. It seems like a norm to get out there and make another friend and make him your twitter follower. That's a reason why people who are not comfortable with public speaking (or comfortable with making friends at larger social place) are even more paranoid.

I really dislike that. I want to tell people: mind your own business and you will bump into interesting people and topics that you can contribute to. You will.

I almost always don't talk to people at a talk because I always feeline my work is less "important" or less poblish / amazing than what other people are doing. That's something I can't get away from.

And it is rather awkward for people randomly approach to people too.

But I think asking questions at a conference/meetup is a great place to start. That's a nice thing to do.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Tip #3 is especially helpful in my experience. These things don't come naturally to us introverts.

</comment><comment><USER19> Also _strongly_ suggest not doing anything related to body shots (see recent HN postings for details...).</comment>