Windows Code Samples - <AUTHOR> https://microsoft.github.io/windows/ <comment><USER2> Too bad the WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux) is not open source. It is already an impressive piece of software, but many features are still lacking (e.g., neither Valgrind nor gperftools work right now), and it could benefit greatly from community involvement.

Fittingly, issue #1 in the WSL bug tracker is requesting it to be open- sourced: [https://github.com/Microsoft/BashOnWindows/issues/1](https://github.com/Microsoft/BashOnWindows/issues/1)

<comment><USER3> For development, is WSL good enough to replace dual-boot?

<comment><USER2> Depends on your use case/tools/habits. WSL gives you the advantage of being able to access the same files with native Windows tools and from the GNU[1] command line. If you plan on using the X GUI tools, it will be much less useful to you.

[1] I can't bring myself to use the term 'Linux' here, because, ironically, Linux is the primary missing part in this Ubuntu distribution. It should really be called WSG or WSU.

<comment><USER4> _If you plan on using the Linux GUI tools, it will be much less useful to you._

If you install an X server, such as VcXsrv and set the _DISPLAY_ variable (typically _export DISPLAY=:0_ will suffice), you can just run X11 apps. For instance, here's a screenshot of a Prolog/Tk application running on WSL:

[https://danieldk.eu/Posts/2017-01-10-Alpino- Windows/alpino-w...](https://danieldk.eu/Posts/2017-01-10-Alpino- Windows/alpino-windows.png)

I have installed Windows on a workstation just to try WSL out and it's quite impressive. Many regular applications just work. I could build Ubuntu packages and upload them to my PPA (I just had to use fakeroot-tcp to replace fakeroot).

Of course, there are also things that don't work for obvious reasons. E.g. because they require facilities deep in the kernel (performance counters/perf) or because they require kernel modules and hardware access (running CUDA programs).

<comment><USER3> So if I want to use my GPU for machine learning applications, I would have to run my programs under Windows rather than from inside the WSL?

<comment><USER4> Indeed. There is a 'uservoice' about this issue:

[https://wpdev.uservoice.com/forums/266908-command-prompt- con...](https://wpdev.uservoice.com/forums/266908-command-prompt-console-bash- on-ubuntu-on-windo/suggestions/16108045-opencl-cuda-gpu-support)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Here's the problem: As a developer Electron (see [http://electron.atom.io/](http://electron.atom.io/) ) is more attractive to me than Windows APIs. Take a look at the RSS Reader ( [https://github.com/Microsoft/Windows-appsample- rssreader](https://github.com/Microsoft/Windows-appsample-rssreader) ). I can make a desktop app that is practically indistinguishable from this app using Electron, so why would I use Windows APIs? If I use Electron then my app will run on Mac and Linux, not just Windows, and my skills will be portable too.

The Flat UI of Windows is a mistake. Because of Flat UI, there is no differentiation between Web apps and native Windows apps, which makes it possible--and even desirable--to make desktop apps using Web technologies.

<comment><USER6> \- Electron is big dependency, adding hundreds of MB to our app

\- Electron Apps haven't and won't ever 100% fit into the OS environment/theme, neither Windows, macOS, or any Linux desktop

\- Electron takes a long time to start up

\- Electron eats a big amount of memory

\- Electron uses a lot more battrey

\- Many APIs of the underlying OS are not avaiable to Electron, especially those not found on competing platforms

So, allow me to say this: If web technologies are more attractive to you (which is completely fine), stick to _the web_. But don't create Desktop programs that waste ressources and time just for the sake of having "a true cross platform app".

<comment><USER7> I was with you until you mentioned how long to takes to start an electron app... It's nearly instantaneous for me. Actually, nearly _all_ apps open instantaneously for me but maybe it's because I'm running a Linux Desktop with an SSD?

Also, the battery thing is nonsense. An idle web app will use up just as much battery as an idle native app. It's the implementation and code architecture decisions that matter more for battery then the underlying APIs.

Lastly, making apps cross-cross-platform _is_ worthwhile unless the point of the app is platform-specific (e.g. an app that tunes something in the OS). You're always going to end up with a larger code base and more complexity when making things cross-platform. Using something like electron is an excellent way to _avoid_ all that complexity.

<comment><USER8> _An idle web app will use up just as much battery as an idle native app._

How about when they're _not_ idle? There's probably an order of magnitude if not more instructions being executed in Electron, which eventually reaches the same OS APIs a native app would call directly. JITs still have overhead.

 _You 're always going to end up with a larger code base and more complexity when making things cross-platform. Using something like electron is an excellent way to avoid all that complexity._

All you've done is moved the complexity to where you as a developer may not see it, but your users sure do.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Having actually used UWP SDK for C++ fairly recently, I was left with the impression that it's a complete non-starter for most folks. It assumes too much skill on the part of the developer (i.e. "everything is asynchronous"), it uses a significantly extended superset of C++, and it inexplicably comes with _no_ libraries for such basic things as image processing, signal processing, linear algebra, etc -- stuff that Apple knocks out of the park. It's just basically WPF and very little else. Enough perhaps to write business apps, but way inadequate for anything outside this narrow niche. And because everything is async, and UI uses opaque data binding, the debugging experience tends to be a bit of a nightmare. I'm not sure what Microsoft was thinking, but Apple's approach to async (concurrent and serial queues in GCD) is an order of magnitude easier to understand, use, and debug, and OS X and iOS SDKs come with a ton more high quality features.

<comment><USER10> I have no idea what your problems are, but I code UWP in C# which is the preferred language and its all fine and dandy here.

(c++ .net is not real c++ anyway)

<comment><USER9> C# maybe. But C# is not suitable for what I do (fast deep learning on video, images, and audio). Any kind of managed language is hostile to those kinds of things and just plain not designed for them. I want to drop down to SIMD intrinsics and assembly when I need perf, and C# won't let me do so.

But I think even folks with much more modest needs suffer with UWP. For instance, try to load an image from your hard drive (using UWP C++), resize it with Lanczos and get access to its pixels. The API is a fucking nightmare, there's no way to resize an image that I could find (unless you want to show it in the UI, in which case all is taken care of for you, but you can't get pixels from there). On macOS/iOS, it's just a few lines of rather plain looking code.

<comment><USER11> .Net offers reasonable SIMD access through the System.Numerics package. Roslyn offers writing plain IL Assembly, which is heavily used throughout SharpDX, and ultimately, P/Invoke is fast and allows you to call any C++ library you might want if you really want to get down to the metal. Seems a better alternative to me that having to deal with the hilariously bad C++ UWP API

<comment><USER9> Really, you call this "reasonable SIMD" access: [https://msdn.microsoft.com/en- us/library/system.numerics(v=v...](https://msdn.microsoft.com/en- us/library/system.numerics\(v=vs.111\).aspx)? For comparison get a load of Apple Accelerate: [https://developer.apple.com/reference/accelerate](https://developer.apple.com/reference/accelerate). Now that's "reasonable" SIMD access, and extremely heavily optimized on both macOS and iOS for both speed and power efficiency. Similar capabilities are just one command line incantation away in Linux. And if that's not enough, you get real, actual assembly, not some "IL assembly" where you have no control over what it will emit when converted to machine code.

Here's another constraint you may have failed to consider: my code doesn't just run on Windows. I compile the same C++ code across all supported platforms with fairly minimal #ifdefs to adjust to platforms and SIMD ISA. Windows is the only platform that fights me every step of the way. Linux is great. macOS is great. iOS and Android are great. Goddamned bare metal is great (cross-compiling on Linux). UWP is awful and hostile.

<comment><USER11> For 90% of the usage of SIMD instructions where people just want to parallelize iterating on lists, yes, that's reasonable enough.

Apple Accelerate isn't a SIMD API, it's a higher level API that happens to use SIMD for its utilities. Apple makes great APIs, yes, I can't deny that.

You seem to have forgotten P/Invoke where your performance critical C++ code can actually be called from C#. You get your assembly and everything whenever you want, for a low initial cost of calling your FFI. And you also get a pretty damn good UWP experience, as well as WPF, WinForms and a long list of UI toolkits.

Let's be real for a second though, the Android NDK is an absolute joke , and calling the C++ experience on Android "great" might be pushing it a bit far.

<comment><USER9> The beauty of NDK is not that it offers a ton of APIs (it does not), it's that it's not overcomplicated and lets you reasonably easily incorporate a lot of the same libs you're already using on Linux anyway, and build them pretty much exactly the same as any other Linux lib, with minimal, if any modifications using tried and true Linux toolchains. It took me much less time and effort to get my stuff going under NDK.

PInvoke would do me no good whatsoever, since my UI needs are fairly limited, and my entire pipeline is basically capture, resize, run inference, and display. Running it through extra layers would only slow it down -- something I try very hard not to allow.

Fundamentally, though, my issue is this: Microsoft pretends to support C++ under UWP, yet when you actually take a look at what's being offered, you see that it's a bare minimum and it's hardly used by anyone. A step off the beaten path and you're on your own since it seems no one is actually using this stuff. Or at least no one publishes anything on the internet. APIs are idiosyncratic, documentation is sparse, tools are crashy (XAML editor), and there's nothing on Stack Overflow. Epic fail.

<comment><USER10> From what I read you have some very specific needs and for various reasons also have decided to use tools/languages every one here advices against.

This is all fine, but your first post make it sounds like UWP _in general_ is crap, which I don't agree with.

<comment><USER9> If it's not crap, how come there are so few decent apps in the Windows App Store?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Most interesting thing MS has released the code for recently is perhaps the KMDF and UMDF.

[https://github.com/Microsoft/Windows-Driver- Frameworks](https://github.com/Microsoft/Windows-Driver-Frameworks)

<comment><USER13> This was previously in the WDK, I think, which was public (maybe only since a few versions, but nevertheless I believe at least even the Win7 WDK was public, so it has been a "few" years now...)

<comment><USER12> WDK != WDF source code. This release is ~200k LoC. WDK is just tools and code templates.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I really hope they open source the NT kernel, or at least part of it. This makes me really excited about the future of Windows!

<comment><USER15> In all honesty, I wouldn't be that surprised if that happened at this stage - I don't know that they would have much to lose, but they'd potentially have an awful lot to gain.

<comment><USER16> They still make money on every single pc/laptop that ships with windows which is still their biggest money maker with office. If they truely open source windows (BSD or else) it will be free to ship for OEM and Microsoft will lose one of their biggest source of income.

tl;dr: not gonna happen

<comment><USER17> Open source doesn't mean free....

<comment><USER18> Be realistic, the next day 10 forks would appear distributing it for free.

<comment><USER19> Windows is always pirated distributed for free doesn't mean they don't violate copyright laws and other restrictions.

One can buy an oem or restricted region license for windows for 20$ but legally it's about the same as pirating it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> From the footer on that page: "Windows maintained by Microsoft".

Cute...

</comment><comment><USER21> I think we can call it 'click bait'

<comment><USER22> Yeah I think "Windows Application Samples" or "Windows API Samples" would be more accurate.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> For one brief second, I really thought...</comment>


Project Euler - <AUTHOR> http://projecteuler.net <comment><USER2> One of the best ways to get started with a new programming language.

<comment><USER3> Upvoted in agreement. Without Project Euler, I probably wouldn't have been able to wrap my head around Scheme, and subsequently, I wouldn't have learned how to program without mutable state. The early problems are general enough that you don't usually need some specific abstraction or language feature to solve them, and the later problems are hard enough that you can't let the language itself take too large a share of your thoughts.

<comment><USER4> How does that work? Scheme vectors are all about mutable state and a lot of the list functions are, too. Did you get a better Scheme collections library than the rest of us?

<comment><USER3> As you have said, it is practically impossible to use vectors without mutating their contents with (vector-set! ...), but purely list-based Scheme is actually quite easy to write without resorting to some variant of (set! ...). When practicing on the early problems on Project Euler, vectors and mutation were language features I simply didn't need for some time, so I didn't learn them until later. The building and traversal of lists through recursion got me at least 80% of most problems I solved. Maybe the standard Scheme libraries just do a good job of making mutation operations look like something one needs to avoid whenever possible.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Same here....knew about it and assumed everyone else knows about it too. I think a lot of good stuff remains hidden because people never really 'reach' them. And the ones who know about it, don't care to keep reminding people, since repetition sounds weird and is frowned upon amongst us hackers. (On a sidenote) Interestingly enough, revision/ repitition is how our minds remember things too. So, in some cases, things we know exist, are bound to be forgotten by us, if we don't spread the news, regularly. I know I have definitely forgotten many of these "interesting, i gotta read it sometime later" websites.

Hey, maybe we should make a Bot that keeps sending others info about these kind of sites that we know, and dont share much, so that once someone else knows about it....slowly it still keeps spreading , instead of just dying and never reaching a lot of audience, until way later....

<comment><USER6> Well how about a weekend project for someone here: scan the HN db for constantly reposted links, cull the ones which have low votes and put up a FLA (frequently linked article) page for new users, or old users to check the _required_ reading list for HN. I'll give it a shot, but I do have a full workload at the moment, but hell, I'll give it a shot. (maybe the guys at searchyc can give me a pointer or two? hint hint)

<comment><USER7> Besides links, there are also a bunch of topics that come up periodically, such as nootropics and polyphasic sleep.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> While good for practice or a warm-up, I've found it a particularly good way to learn algorithms, compare implementations across languages, etc. The forums are great. (It's humbling to see so many solved a line or two of J, too.)

I haven't been there in a few months, but I did the first fifty (and a few others) in Lua and OCaml.

<comment><USER8> Upvoted, project euler is really great for learning (or relearning) techniques in languages you are interested in using, but good tutorials / books may not exist -- lua I'm looking at you.

<comment><USER7> While there aren't a whole lot of books about Lua, the official one (Ierusalimschy's _Programming in Lua_, 2nd ed., AKA, "the blue PiL") is excellent. That, the wiki, and mailing list archives (<http://lua-users.org/>) should pretty much cover things.

The reference manual is also helpful, particularly for the C API. It's available online, but I like having a printed copy. (I also find its brevity re-assuring.)

There's another book by that publisher that makes big red tree stumps, but I can't recommend it. (The _Lua Programming Gems_ has some good bits, though.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Yeah, we know it exists...

<comment><USER10> You may know it exists; that doesn't mean "we" know it exists. In particular, _I_ didn't know it exists, and am grateful to the person who submitted the link.

<comment><USER7> Project Euler gets reposted every couple months. This is because new people keep discovering it, and it's really cool.

I don't mind the repost. It will sink off the front page again soon enough, and hopefully the discussion will be good this time.

By the way, if you're excited about Project Euler, you may like _Mathematics: From the Birth of Numbers_.

<comment><USER11> And if you finish the challenges, there's also programmingpraxis.com

<comment><USER7> pythonchallenge.com is also good, though some of the questions are Python- specific.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I've been cranking through some problems when I have a little bit of time in Python ... Done 66 so far, and mess with it whenever I have a few free minutes.

Great way to learn a new language or rediscover one you already know

<comment><USER13> For python you can try : <http://www.pythonchallenge.com/> (purely fun), <http://www.spoj.pl/> (algorithmic), <http://www.codechef.com/> (competitive) and of course there is project euler (mathematically oriented)

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Similar site (loosely similar):

<http://brand.site.co.il/riddles/usingyourhead.html></comment>


Y Combinator to recruit more black entrepreneurs - <AUTHOR> http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/08/29/y-combinator-diversity-black-entrepreneurs/14743163/ <comment><USER2> I'm black ,what is this ? affirmative action pt2 ? you dont need to "recruit more black entrepreneurs" , you need to recruit entrepreneurs wether they are black,yellow,brown,man,woman,trans without prejudice,based only on their skills. Or if "Y Combinator to recruit more black entrepreneurs" means they were discriminated against before, we want a few good negros to look good, just like a few women here and there ,and build "girls who code" clubs for PR,so the tech world is not labelled as racist or sexist ?

The tech world is racist,and sexist. The VC world is way beyond racist or sexist ,it's a culture of nepotism.You cant change that.It's like electing a black president,you may look good abroad but at home noone is dumb enough to think anything has changed. It's even worse to consider minorities as "people that need help".We dont need help we need equality at first place,there is none.

<comment><USER3> I'm Indian. I don't believe I face the same difficulties that blacks do. It also feels weird to respond but I'll give it a go.

> We dont need help we need equality at first place,there is none.

I don't disagree. Don't you believe that making special efforts to get minority groups into something can do more good than harm? Perhaps it depends on the details of how it's done but if done correctly I think it can help.

There isn't equality and there won't be equality anytime soon. That's why I believe deliberate effort has its place. It doesn't have to imply an imbalance of equality. Instead it can acknowledge the imbalance of perceived equality and aim to eradicate the false assumptions.

I don't for an instance claim that one race or sex is intrinsically more intelligent. But I'll admit that I do believe entire groups of people are marginalized and it creates an unleveled playing field. One which should be level.

It applies to many groups. People who are poor, black, hispanic, gay, women, obese, unattractive, etc.

If you fall into these groups you'll have felt some level of discrimination. Some more than others (i.e. someone who's poor, black and gay will have felt it more acutely than someone who's just gay).

I don't know. I think it this can be done in a respectful manner with good intent and without being derogative.

Would you disagree? If so what's the more _realistic_ solution?

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> A couple comments:

First, Altruism aside, this will likely be a win for ycombinator. There are always opportunities to be had in targeting subgroups which others neglect.

And the problem with bias is that much of it is subconscious. Unless an organisation makes a conscious effort, it will likely discriminate.

This means there's an opportunity for YC to get easier access to the cream of the crop, merely by specifically recruiting. And articles like this are helpful too, as they'll signal to would be black entrepreneurs that they should not shy away from YC.

Second, this could be very important for future african-american entrepreneurs. Reference examples are so, so important. I (white male) did not become a programmer, despite a love for math and computers. I literally didn't have a single programmer in my extended family or circle of close friends. I played around with computers, but I had no idea what a programming language was until age 25.

(If this sounds incurious, think about what massive blind spots you yourself had until recently)

If YC can fund an african-american entrepreneur who succeeds massively, then this will inspire thousands of others.

The same arguments apply to recruiting women, and inspiring women. I applaud this move, and YC's earlier initiative to recruit women.

<comment><USER5> >And the problem with bias is that much of it is subconscious. Unless an organisation makes a conscious effort, it will likely discriminate.

Could you elaborate? Here, the article states that 1% of all applicants are black. How can the demographics of those who apply at all be attributed to bias on Y Combinator's part, intentional or otherwise?

<comment><USER4> I didn't say YC was biased, specifically. I meant we all our, inasmuch as our culture produces bias against black people.

Growing up in a biased culture, it would be very, very, very difficult not to acquire any.

This idea has received some empirical validation from the implicit biases test. Some details here:

[http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090617142120.ht...](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090617142120.htm)

Other studies have compared the performance of white vs. black names.

[http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html](http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html)

The evidence suggests that most people are biased, yet think they are not. Removing this unconscious bias from our society will take time.

So I meant that almost EVERYBODY is likely to discriminate, at least if current evidence pointing that way is correct.

Therefore, unless an organization takes conscious effort, it will discriminate. But on the bright side, merely by taking such conscious effort, an organization can both help itself AND help a disadvantaged group.

And leading the way forward is one mechanism to reduce unconscious bias. I am sure, for instance, that Obama's presidency has made today's children far less likely to be biased.

<comment><USER5> I agree that we all have implicit bias, and I also agree that it's good YC is broadcasting itself to groups of all kinds, but I doubt bias plays any significant role in the demographics of past and current YC batches, at least when looked at directly (choosing which applicants to accept, as opposed to indirect societal biases possibly causing people not to apply or to choose a different path).

<comment><USER6> Accepting that we all have implicit bias but saying that it doesn't play a significant role in who YC accepts seems to suggest that the YC application review process is able to overcome implicit bias. This may be true to some degree because of the number of steps and people involved in reviewing applications. However, I'm skeptical that it's so effective that it makes bias play an insignificant role.

<comment><USER5> I think it's unfair to assume that bias plays a role simply based on the truism of "we all have implicit bias". YC is run by a good group of intelligent people who are very aware of such biases.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> As a young black entrepreneur that has known about YC for years now and have followed them and their large portfolio, I think they are making a smart move toward reaching out to a community where people aren't aware of programs like YC and the opportunities they provide.

<comment><USER8> Can you explain how this happens?

<comment><USER9> First, let me say that I love how HN has matured to a point where an article like this can make it to the front-page and not get overrun with insanely long threads of people debating the definition of "racism" and if it exists or not in tech.

Believe it or not, the story below is actually the very-shortened version.:

I as a male with Nigerian-born-and-raised parents can tell my story about how I didn't know a single thing about start-ups or SV/bayarea scene or anything until 2007. So I went to school in CSU Hayward and got my BSCS __only__ because I wanted to make videogames. All my college friends talked about becoming videogame betatesters and I wanted to make games. A classmate of mine got me my first job in AT&T as an analyst. Before this job the only computers I've been exposed to was my home Win95 computer on dial-up and the unix terminal on school campus; oh and writing programs in BASIC on AppleII's in junior highschool and that wasn't even a class. It just happened that there was a teacher who was a geek and brought his computers to school for kids like me to play with. I probably owe that teacher a lot. My dad being in a job involving fortran & punch-cards helped to. When I first saw a bunch of computers networked together, I had no idea what that meant. Windows SAMBA mounts and copying files between 2 machines blew my freakin' mind in 2002. Computers talk to each other?! I had AOL and no idea how the internet worked until a few weeks after starting at AT&T; then I got AT&T DSL and it was horrible so I hardly used the internet. AT&T was always putting enterprise software books in the lobbies so that's all I knew existed; expensive proprietary tools. It was only one day, after like 5 yrs, I got fed up with AT&T and tried to leave but couldn't. I used computerjobs.com to attempt finding another job. Found out that all my skills in writing ABAP programs for SAP, JCL on OS/2, tools like QuickTest & LoadRunner didn't actually mean anything when only a few major corps have the money to pay for the licenses of said softwares. Also, the VB macros I wrote for MSExcel and got me so much praise at AT&T turned out to not be a high-demand skill. I was floored; I had no idea. I really thought I was highly skilled and could find a job anytime I wanted. At one point I thought my email just didn't work, but a few tests proved that not to be the case. Then one day I got even more frustrated and tried to get into Pixar. I learned how to use Alias(purchased by Autodesk) Maya and sent a resume. They called me back, but I didn't get the job because I didn't know enough of a programming language called "python".(Maya has python bindings for automation 'n stuff)

Python? What's that? I went to go find all the info I could on this strange programming language. Tried to apply to Pixar again after learning some but they never replied me again. Then I searched online to look at resumes of people who have Pixar on them to see where they worked before ending up at Pixar. I saw a bunch of companies I have never heard of. Remember, AT&T was my first job out of school and my internet was unusable. Almost all my coworkers were old enough to be my parents and 99% of them had no interest in computers beyond just using them as they were trained 5+ years ago. The only companies that came up in conversation were corps like Oracle & HP. Looking up all the companies I saw on these resumes, I eventually stumbled upon the term "start up". What's a start-up? Oh, a company that just started! That makes sense, I guess a company has to start from something. So where do I find these start- ups? OH! They're all around me!!! San Francisco is less than an hour away! Whoa there's a whole bunch!!!!! Look at these salaries! AT&T was just paying me $46k! Okay, so what kind of tools do they use? What? Linux? What's that? Oh, I remember Redhat in school for one of my classes. What's mysql? Why not Oracle? Nobody likes Windows? What's a Macbook? Why are all these people so young and happy-looking? They don't have to wear a suit & tie to work?

My internet was so bad and AT&T couldn't fix it after multiple calls, so I switched to Comcast because I needed to start downloading all kinds of stuff. I bought a laptop at this time as well. This way I now had 2 computers in my house _(yes, a house. I got it in 2003 when they were just giving houses to anyone who walked in off the street)_ and I could learn more about what an IP address is and how 2 computers talk to each other.

This was in 2006, so by 2007 I fully discovered the world of Linux and open- source in general. Found out that Windows the OS isn't not the same thing as the computer. That I could delete & reformat the Harddrive with Linux without physically destroying the computer. Fully comprehended what open-source meant to my career. Free software meant that my skills followed me to any company I went to. Knowing how to use JMeter instead of LoadRunner, Selenium instead of Quicktest, mysql instead of Oracle - I've increased my skillset and I didn't have to rely on anyone to buy some $80k license before my skills became usable. Learned some more skills that were hot at the time and started applying. This is when I learned that start-ups liked Craigslist so that was the only place I used for my job-search. One memorable phone-interview was with babycenter.com. The lady interviewing me used all kinds of profanity on the phone. While I personally don't use profanity, I found it amazing that start-ups were so care-free that they can just F-bomb people during an interview like it's nothing. Eventually I ended up in a start-up with about 8 people. My family was freaking out that I was about to leave a huge company like AT&T to work with 8 people in San Francisco.... but I did it anyway and from there it's all roses, rainbows and puppies. My career goals have changed though so I don't seek Pixar like I use to.

The overall idea here is that it's totally possible to grow up right in this bay area, even get a BSCS, and not know about any of the tech scene going on right under your nose if you're not around those kinds of people. My family wasn't rich but way better off than the inner-city, low income kids. If I didn't know about the BayArea tech-scene until 2007, it's easy for me to imagine them not having a clue even today.

NOTE: That house I got in 2003? I totally should have been one of the people that got foreclosed on; but the extreme jump in my salary after leaving AT&T saved me.

<comment><USER10> Well put. The biggest win won't be in giving the 1% of YCombinator applicants some kind of "unfair advantage" (something I disagree is even possible), but in growing that 1%. And that starts by letting potential entrepreneurs know the startup scene is even an option for them.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> This is awesome. A diversity of people will bring a diversity of ideas. You can find highly intelligent, driven people from all walks of life, it's a shame that there's a process broken in self-selection for software engineering and bay area startups. Although it's probably not just diverse self-selection that needs work, I imagine there's probably forms of discrimination and roadblocks that privileged classes of the majority don't even recognize.

<comment><USER12> So, as someone who is a privileged class of the majority (white, male, 25-49), what are the roadblocks?

If there's discrimination, isn't that purely the fault of the Y Combinator organisers (in this instance), and is this article then an admission that they've discriminated in the past?

<comment><USER13> Black male here, aged 18-25, Computer Science and Design student in my final semester of University. The roadblocks from a racial perspective is lack of resources and education, there is a fair amount of poverty within black America. Did you have access to a computer growing up? Maybe you had one or two in your house? Then you may have been able to learn more about programming from a younger age, or maybe you had a computer lab in your school...On the other hand, maybe you are also assumed to be inadequate by society because of your skintone, you are automatically stereotyped to be unintelligent or a subpar developer. Those are the roadblocks we have to face, whether it stems from society or socioeconomic status, we have to work twice as hard to prove ourselves in America.

<comment><USER14> I'm a white startup founder in SV.

Systematic discrimination due to unequal access to infrastructure really, really sucks for the black community as a whole, but if you managed to overcome it as an individual there are multiple interrelated reasons why you have a massive advantage in startups/tech that you probably aren't aware of yet.

Firstly, the market is ruthless. You can't lie to yourself or others in a startup -- the thing you're doing _really_ has to work, so the decisions you're making have to be _right_. You're white, had a great education, and a well-padded resume? If you don't make precisely the right choices, the market couldn't care less, your company will die. Now, white well educated people with well-padded resumes will probably have easier access to venture capital, but that brings me to my next point.

In my (totally unscientific) experience, skin color, education, and experience has no correlation whatsoever with fluid intelligence (essentially, how well you make decisions without knowledge). In a big company, fluid intelligence doesn't really matter all that much -- the culture is well established, you aren't that important, and if you can just play ball the way everyone else does, you'll do ok. Not so in a startup. In a startup you're dealing with completely new territory, so you have to figure things out from scratch, all the time. You might as well take your knowledge, and your experience, and your education, and throw it all away because it will make a zilch of difference. Fluid intelligence is everything because you have to figure everything out from scratch.

All the white, well-educated, experienced young men who have relatively easy access to VC capital? Without fluid intelligence and wits about them, they'll just burn through it and be left with nothing at the end. The market is ruthless -- it doesn't care. So you're on equal footing.

Finally, the space is hyper-competitive and even in a recession there is too much capital chasing too few good ideas. All those white, traditional, middle aged male VC partnerships _really_ need a win. And I mean _really_ , because if they don't get one they won't raise the next fund, and if they don't raise the next fund they won't be able to pay property taxes and their kids's private school tuitions, and they really, really don't want to end up there. Don't like black people? Have unacknowledged bias? Too bad -- your kids are going to public school next year. So if you come in with a killer idea and the seeds of a working business, you bet they'll invest. The pressure's too high not to. They might care what you look like, but the market doesn't care about them. The market is ruthless and indifferent, and forces them to act ruthless and indifferent, because if they act on their prejudices their fund will die.

This is getting a bit long, so here's my TL;DR: if you've been discriminated against your whole life and want to start a company, don't get discouraged. The market is ruthless and indifferent -- it doesn't care about you, or me, or anyone. For you, that's an advantage. Build something people want and you _will_ be rewarded.

<comment><USER15> > Now, white well educated people with well-padded resumes will probably have > easier access to venture capital, but that brings me to my next point.

Isn't this really the key here? I agree with your other arguments about ultimately needing to have fluid intelligence etc. But assuming two people (one white, one black) have the same amount of intelligence, smarts etc, but one raises $10 million from Sequoia and the other doesn't. That pretty much makes the difference between succeeding and failing. There are ideas which are so world-changing or brilliant that the market and VC's just can't ignore their eventual prominence (Google maybe?). There are other ideas which need lots of capital and talent injection in order to nurture them to the point where they are big.

<comment><USER14> Of course! But in the startup world you get to pick your market, your product, your idea -- everything. If you don't have access to capital, don't pick an idea that requires a large capital injection before product/market fit because that's where you have the biggest advantage. You get to pick your battlefield here, and if you're smart you'll pick one where _you_ have the advantage.

Once you get to product/market fit, you'll get capital no matter who you are or where you come from. The market pressure is too strong for people not to invest.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> One of the things I love so much about being in the high tech world is its natural tendency for a (more) level playing field.

It shouldn't (and often doesn't) matter what you look like, where you came from, or who you are. What really matters is the value produced for others by _what you do_.

This sounds like a great step in promoting that property to those who may not have experienced it before. I have a feeling it may work out real well for lots of people.

<comment><USER16> > It shouldn't (and often doesn't) matter what you look like

So why exactly do they need to recruit more black people? Instead of like, everyone?

<comment><USER17> Because "like, everyone" (aka people in the demographic they have supported as of now) often have had more chances/advantages in their lives. Listening to some ideas from people with different backgrounds couldn't hurt.

<comment><USER18> Black is not a background, though.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> to be very clear, we do just try to recruit the best people regardless of race, gender, etc.

you have to cast a wide net to do that.

<comment><USER20> The article doesn't say what you're doing to recruit more minorities. Are you making a PR effort, or developing different business contacts, or starting a new program, or...?

Just curious. (And glad you're making the effort.)

<comment><USER21> The 3rd or 4th paragraph discusses the strategy. (No hard details.)

> It's adding black colleges to its recruiting swing this > fall, as well as > reaching out to groups with strong ties > to the black community to increase > the pool of applicants, > Altman said.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Just figured I should take this opportunity to say, I'm black (and female!) and an entrepreneur. Right now my cofounder (also black) and I are building 20 software products in 20 weeks. You can read about it at [http://www.munocreative.com/blog](http://www.munocreative.com/blog). #shamelessplug

We previously wouldn't have applied to Y combinator because of remarks like these:

"I can be tricked by anyone who looks like Mark Zuckerberg. There was a guy once who we funded who was terrible. I said: 'How could he be bad? He looks like Zuckerberg!'"

\--Paul Graham, New York Times ([http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/05/magazine/y-combinator- sili...](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/05/magazine/y-combinator-silicon- valleys-start-up-machine.html?pagewanted=all))

Seeing as not even a Stanford degree and overpriced American Apparel hoodie can make us look like Mark Zuckerberg.

...but hey---this move by Sam actually seems like a good sign!

</comment><comment><USER23> Surely Y Combinator should just recruit people that do the job the best, whether they are white,black..etc

<comment><USER24> I'm pretty sure that "recruit", in this context, means "expose to Y Combinator and encourage to apply if they have a good idea", not "give them a higher chance of being accepted because they are black".

<comment><USER25> The distinction you describe is exactly the case, I think, yet the word "recruit" may lead to confusion.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> YC is tech specific; it's self selecting, so any tech entrepreneur regardless of color will apply to YC. Are there other tech accelerators with higher black applicants? Maybe the pipe starts in elementary school and not age 22. YC's efforts would be more effective inspiring inner city black children in nearby communities to take an interest in tech.

</comment><comment><USER27> Google "Map Shows Most Racist People On Earth". [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating- map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/)

</comment><comment><USER28> Does being Egyptian qualify me for this? I am technically an African American. I'm half-serious.

</comment><comment><USER29> Such a statement will probably result in good press.

It may be racist to regard skin color in recruiting decisions but I think this will not end up being used against YC since most people don't care as long as whites are not favoured. I guess it's regular csr marketing.

</comment><comment><USER30> I'd rather Y Combinator make an effort to recruit more black entrepreneurs than make an effort to not recruit more black entrepreneurs.

</comment><comment><USER31> Something about this headline feels wrong.

<comment><USER32> I agree, but them down voters don't agree.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> bullshit. we got a YC interview for summer 2014. We had almost 200k in revenue and outpaced it (2 months later) almost 400k. I am black spanish guy and cofounder female latin. Only people in our interview who look like us (or in the whole place). Not being angry at all just saying this is a publicity in my opinion. Our model didn't fit into what they were investing on at the time. We didn't need money but wanted to be part of YC. But i will tell you no one looked like us.

<comment><USER34> It used to be that looking like Mark Zuckerberg would increase your chances of getting in. I think that speaks a lot to the kinds of bias that may exist.

<comment><USER33> I didn't feel bias at all. The bias is towards companies that fit a model they like and if they can find entrepreneurs who can execute on that model. Has nothing to do with race. But one thing yes the "startup" system isn't really built to accelerate certain communities. the biggest thing is access. It's same in lots of industries and YC/startups aren't the only ones that deal with it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> I hate it when someone says we'd like to fund more from a "minority" such as women or black people or XXX like YC has done in the past. What does this do?

1\. For the minority this makes them feel like they "need help" and they are "not good enough" unless they are given an unfair advantage

2\. For the majority, it makes them feel sidelined and at an unfair disadvantage when applying

YC needs to just promote entrepreneurship and not colour. For the record, I am a coloured man, unfortunately not black to be able to take advantage of this latest "minority giveaway"</comment>


Job: Backend Hacker at Boston area Startup - <AUTHOR>

Wistia ( http://www.wistia.com ):
Want to work for a company which has built an exciting product in the web video space AND actually has customers and revenues?  Then Wistia is the place for you.  Our video sharing and collaboration platform is changing the way that companies use video.  Our customers include companies in lifesciences, video production, and the Global 100.  Our vision is making video as simple for companies to use as email and Word documents.  We're early stage (i.e. lots of opportunity), well funded, and passionate about what we're doing.
Position:
We're looking for a highly motivated individual who enjoys working with a small, tight knit team to create cool and exciting web applications.  While our platform is built in Ruby on Rails, you only need strong coding skills, excitement to learn, and experience with some other similar language  in a Linux environment (e.g. PHP/Python/Java).  Skills are important, but passion and drive to build something amazing also counts for quite a bit with us.  You should have a strong entrepreneurial interest and enjoy working in dynamic and extremely exciting startup environment.
Desired skills:
-BS or higher in CS or related area -2-3 years experience in designing and developing scalable websites and applications -Solid programming skills in Ruby or a simlar language (PHP/Python/Java) -Development experience in Linux/Unix environment. -A strong knowledge of relational databases -Experience creating and using backend REST web services -Creative, thoughtful, and detail-oriented personality -Must be authorized to work in the U.S. currently -No contractors or consulting offers please
Wistia provides competitive salaries, generous stock options, and top-notch healthcare/dental.  We are located just off Rt. 2 (inside I-95) in Lexington.
Please feel free to contact us at email@example.com <comment><USER2> Dup. See <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=202509></comment>


Covid-19 in schoolchildren – A comparison between Finland and Sweden [pdf] - <AUTHOR> https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/contentassets/c1b78bffbfde4a7899eb0d8ffdb57b09/covid-19-school-aged-children.pdf <comment><USER3> Here is a big problem. The children need to go somewhere. Parents need to work, bills need to be paid and tax incomes need to continue to flow. So what to do with the kids?

Right now, the options are either send them to school, where there are (in the US) government employees making sure they are safe. The workers are well represented by a strong union, have good healthcare and reasonable wages. The other option is to send them to private day care, where private citizens with no oversight, very low pay and no worker protections are being asked to shoulder the risk. It seems like we have no problem hoisting even more responsibility upon the poor and least represented in society.

Teaches are essential workers, much like firefighters, DMV workers or court clerks. We expect a girl making minimum wage at Kroger to accept that she is an essential worker. Why do we not expect the same from school staff?

Disclosure: I have siblings and other close relatives that work for and in school in the US. I am not externalizing the risk.

<comment><USER4> The teachers don't expect the same, because they are still getting paid.

I'm not saying they don't have legitimate questions about how schools will reopen safely, but to be frank, it's really easy to argue that it's "just not safe enough", when you're still pulling a paycheck sitting at home and the closing of schools is felt by working parents who are SOL -- not by yourself.

<comment><USER5> Ding ding ding.

I heard of teachers outright disappearing, claiming "technical issues" during this time.

<comment><USER6> In my city all sports teachers were suddenly ill for several weeks. they had the lowest risk, but apparently also the smallest brains.

<comment><USER5> Lol. Nice work if you can get it

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Case counts in children is irrelevant. For an infection to become a case it has to be diagnosed, and that typically only happens with symptoms. But we know young people rarely have symptoms, so obviously they rarely count as cases.

INFECTIONS, however, matter a LOT. If you're infected you can pass a virus on without ever being counted as a "case." And we have zero reason to think children can't be infected. Hell, tigers and mink can be infected. Of course children can be infected. This thing is crazy infectious.

Children will spread the infection to their teachers, school staff, and families. There is no question about that, regardless of whether children's infections count as "cases."

<comment><USER8> > But we know young people rarely have symptoms

And we know that, while presymptomatic spread is an issue, _asymptomatic_ spread is between rare and nonexistent.

The fact that children tend not to be diagnosed because they tend much more strongly than adults to be asymptomatic when infected is _not_ irrelevant to their propensity to spread the disease.

<comment><USER9> >>And we know that, while presymptomatic spread is an issue, asymptomatic spread is between rare and nonexistent.

Our knowledge is not that precise yet.

What we do know, based on models, is that "silent" transmission accounts for about 50% of covid-19 infections.

[https://abcnews.go.com/Health/asymptomatic-presymptomatic- pe...](https://abcnews.go.com/Health/asymptomatic-presymptomatic-people- transmit-covid-19-infections-study/story?id=71647268)

<comment><USER3> We don't know this. We would need full contact tracing and much faster testing to know this. Plus, we now know antibodies may _not_ be the biggest contributor to the immune response. It seems T-Cells are in some cases able to fight the disease without ever mounting an antibody response Thus no antibodies.

But the ol' maxim applies here: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

<comment><USER10> > absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

That applies to infection/transmission via schools _in general_. Precisely because we don't have decent testing and tracing, we have a large number of cases whose origin is unknown. Schools have to be considered as one possibility, especially considering the several cases where reopening schools _has_ been strongly correlated with spikes in infections. The precise mechanism doesn't matter. It's a red herring. Whether it's kid to kid, parent to teacher, cafeteria workers, whatever, it seems to happen some of the time. Until we've _clearly ruled out_ a cause for those unknowns, we have to consider it still operative.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> The second bullet point of the conclusion states...

| Children are not a major risk group of the covid-19 disease and seem to play a less important role from the transmission point of view, although more active surveillance and special studies such as school and household transmission studies are warranted.

I feel like that is probably the next most important question to answer.

<comment><USER12> Or we could take a look at Israel where they opened up schools and saw a significant spike[1].

[1] [https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live- updates/2020/0...](https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live- updates/2020/06/03/868507524/israel-orders-schools-to-close-when- covid-19-cases-are-discovered)

<comment><USER13> Or South Africa where they tried to open up schools for only two grades (7th and 12th).

"Since the first phase of the schools reopening last month, 968 schools have had to close due to outbreaks and 2,400 teachers and 1,260 learners have tested positive for COVID-19."

Source: [https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-07-south-africa-phase- re...](https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-07-south-africa-phase-reopening- schools.html)

Or the Georgia summer camp that had an outbreak involving 85 campers and staff:

[https://www.wftv.com/news/trending/85-campers-staff-test- pos...](https://www.wftv.com/news/trending/85-campers-staff-test-positive- covid-19-ymca-summer-camp/OPSPVDSXRFCLZOD7SEMLCYN2OA/)

Or the Missouri summer camp that had an outbreak involving 82 kids and staff:

[https://www.foxnews.com/us/missouri-summer-camp-closes- after...](https://www.foxnews.com/us/missouri-summer-camp-closes- after-82-kids-staffers-infected-with-coronavirus-reports)

A lot of this is anecdotal, sure, but I find it hard to believe that kids don't spread the virus if we're seeing large outbreaks like these already.

<comment><USER13> If you want an example involving younger kids, there was recently an outbreak involving 12 staff and 8 kids at an Oregon daycare that serves kids ages 6 and under [1].

It might be impossible to know whether the adults infected the kids or vice versa (or both), but Coronavirus cases are growing fastest among kids younger than 10 in Oregon right now [2], so ... to me, it makes sense to assume that kids can spread it until it's proven otherwise.

Lastly, for those who don't know, the CDC internally lists reopening schools as the "highest risk" for Coronavirus spread. [3]

[1] [https://www.wweek.com/news/state/2020/06/30/oregon-child- car...](https://www.wweek.com/news/state/2020/06/30/oregon-child-care- facility-reports-covid-19-outbreak-among-first-in-nation/)

[2] [https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/07/coronavirus-i...](https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/07/coronavirus- infections-rising-fastest-among-kids-younger-than-10-dimming-prospects-for- oregons-school-reopening-plans.html)

[3] [https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/11/politics/cdc-documents- warn-h...](https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/11/politics/cdc-documents-warn-high- risk-schools-reopening/index.html)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> If you haven't read it yet, this short report seems to conclude that for reasons that are not yet well understood, children are not very likely to contract the disease, and if they do contract it, are not that likely to spread it to others. As a result, school closings (or the lack thereof) do not seem to have a major effect on the spread of the disease. Pulling some key quotes:

 _" Outbreak investigations in Finland has not shown children to be contributing much in terms of transmission and in Sweden a report comparing risk of covid-19 in different professions, showed no increased risk for teachers."_

 _" In conclusion, closure or not of schools had no measurable direct impact on the number of laboratory confirmed cases in school-aged children in Finland or Sweden"_

 _" In the contact tracings in primary schools in Finland, there has been hardly any evidence of children infecting other persons. The Swedish comparison of number of reported cases among staff in day care and primary school to number of cases in other professions does not show any increased risk for teachers. This also indicates that the role of children in propagating this infection is likely to be small. Various papers on contact tracing have also found that children rarely are the first case in family clusters (4, 12, 13)."_

 _" Closing of schools had no measurable effect on the number of cases of covid- 19 among children."_

 _" Children are not a major risk group of the covid-19 disease and seem to play a less important role from the transmission point of view, although more active surveillance and special studies such as school and household transmission studies are warranted."_

Intriguing.

This Mercury News article from a couple days ago tells the same general story, and offers some theories on how things might work biologically:

 _Coronavirus: Why kids aren't the germbags, and grownups are._

 _As school districts sweat over reopening plans, a growing body of research suggests young children are unlikely to transmit COVID-19 virus. They get it from us._

[https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/07/10/coronavirus-why- kids-...](https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/07/10/coronavirus-why-kids-arent- the-germbags-and-grownups-are/)

</comment><comment><USER15> I don't see any data for adult infections. That's what we're concerned about mostly when opening schools. That the kids will infect the adults who will infect each other. I can't believe they have the audacity to publish this paper and its conclusions which clearly cannot be drawn from the data presented. This is pure and utter garbage, garbage that will be used by idiots to make policy decisions that will kill people unnecessarily. The paper should be retracted and peer reviewers should rip it up. What idiocy.

</comment><comment><USER16> 6% of infected people in Orange County, California are children 0-17 - this is after many restrictions. Even if the percentage stays at 6% after schools reopen, we're talking about a huge ripple effect on the whole population. Unlike adults, kids really can't follow strict measures - America is no Finland, no Sweden, no Asia!

</comment><comment><USER17> Can anyone comment if this document 'Covid-19 in school children - <USER2> comparison between Sweden & Finland' is an official report ? I'm unable to find it by browsing or searching for it on the website.

<comment><USER18> [https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/publicerat- material/publ...](https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/publicerat- material/publikationsarkiv/c/covid-19-hos-forskole-och-skolbarn/)

It can be found at [https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/smittskydd- beredskap/utb...](https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/smittskydd- beredskap/utbrott/aktuella-utbrott/covid-19/statistik-och-analyser/analys-och- prognoser/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Frustratingly unhelpful paper, for those looking for useful, applicable measures and measurements.

No details around:

* distancing measures * space utilization * travel arrangements * coplay arrangements

<comment><USER20> The reason the comparison is interesting is that Sweden didn't really implement such measures. Schools there have been operating pretty much as normal.

<comment><USER19> I understand and appreciate the Swedish strategy...and its failings for its adult population. With respect to what may be claimed "success" in its juvenile population, because of potential applicability (or not) to other communities, details of "normal" are essential. Those are entirely absent from this report.

More directly- as a parent in NYC, I am unhappily looking forward to people citing this unhelpful paper and "the Swedish model" claiming return to school will be safe. No and no is what I say to them.

Cheers.</comment></comment></comment>


Amazon CloudFront Performance Numbers - <AUTHOR> http://www.expatsoftware.com/articles/2008/11/cloudfront-performance-numbers.html

<comment><USER3> SimpleCDN looks like it's already done something like this ("easy API, democratizing the CDN").

While I'm not a customer of either SimpleCDN or CloudFront yet, this looks easy enough to deal with:

        http://www.simplecdn.com/solutions#UploadBuckets

It's also MUCH cheaper than CloudFront:

        http://www.simplecdn.com/pricing

Also from that page: "There are no contracts or monthly minimum fees, etc."

It looks like they don't have nearly the reach that something like Akamai or Limelight has (but comparable to CloudFront currently):

        http://www.simplecdn.com/noc

For a small to medium sized project, this is what I would personally sign up for rather than CloudFront.

<comment><AUTHOR> Are you sure you're reading the right pricing chart? Comparing these:

<http://www.simplecdn.com/pricing> <http://aws.amazon.com/cloudfront/> <http://aws.amazon.com/s3/>

storage: Amazon: $0.15/GB, simpleCDN $5.00/GB (ouch!)

transfer out: Amazon: $0.17-$0.22/GB, simpleCDN $0.09/GB

transfer in: Amazon: something, simpleCDN: nothing

requests: Both: $0.01/10k requests

So yeah, you might save a few pennies on bandwidth, but SimpleCDN would kill you on storage it seems.

They do seem to offer another product that they call "SimpleCDN S3+", that I assume is their equivilant of S3, since the prices are about the same. Is that what you were comparing?

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> From the article: Amazon S3: <http://img.twiddla.com.s3.amazonaws.com/images/pixel.gif> 300ms - <USER2> latency, ~0s download time

CloudFront: <http://d2livl246cusvi.cloudfront.net/images/pixel.gif> 46ms latency, ~0s download time

Looks great to me!</comment>


German lab where dogs bleed to death - <AUTHOR> https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/new-video-shows-dogs-bleeding-20646017 <comment><USER2> I would think with the advances in DNA research that animal testing would be considerably reduced or eliminated. I also don't understand how testing on animals correlates to substance toxicity in humans.

</comment><comment><USER3> You can either test toxicity on animals or test it on humans. They should create an especially uncharismatic dog breed to test with.

<comment><USER4> That's dumb, to be blunt as hell. Toxicology of pertinent substances is long ago documented, and can literally be just looked up in old research.

<comment><USER3> You think they're redoing old testing?

<comment><USER4> Yeah

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I feel so marginalized by the universe's expanse and society's domination of my individuality. I _want_ to be a good person. I just have never been told how. Can't help every bum, can't shut down every evil bloodsucker. Life feels so meaningless when the moles just keep popping up as you hit them. Aye, I upvote, wish I had the means to do more, it seems like my existence is split in two..startups having to do a lot with it.

How to help the world?

Step 1) Make lots of money Step 2) Influence

It always feels like I'm trying to "scheme" morality, and it hasn't worked out so far, since I'm not rich enough to do shit, in terms of making real change.

This video about the toolbox fallacy is so apt: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz4YqwH_6D0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz4YqwH_6D0)

I keep waiting for step 1 to complete so I can then "live life after life."

Like a hamster on a wheel....</comment>


New York Prosecutor Calls for Law to Fight Apple Data Encryption - <AUTHOR> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-06/new-york-prosecutor-calls-for-law-to-fight-apple-data-encryption.html <comment><AUTHOR> This is not the first time such a law has been proposed. In 1997, a House of Representatives committee approved a ban on domestic encryption without backdoors for .gov access. Here's an excerpt from the SAFE Act, as it was called back then:

 _`Whoever, after January 31, 2000, sells in interstate or foreign commerce any encryption product that does not include features or functions permitting duly authorized persons immediate access to plaintext or immediate decryption capabilities shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined under this title, or both...

After January 31, 2000, it shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture for distribution, distribute, or import encryption products intended for sale or use in the United States, unless that product [...] permits immediate decryption of the encrypted data, including communications, upon the receipt of decryption information by an authorized party in possession of a facially valid order [and] allows the decryption of encrypted data, including communications, without the knowledge or cooperation of the person being investigated..._ [http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi- bin/cpquery/T?&report=hr108p4&dbna...](http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi- bin/cpquery/T?&report=hr108p4&dbname=105&)

Think of how that would have affected Linux (Android uses dm-crypt for FDE), open source, Github, etc.

That 1997 bill is remarkably similar to what the FBI and its law enforcement allies, including the district attorney quoted in the linked article, want today. And remember that bill was not theoretical. It was approved and sent to the House floor for a vote -- and was defeated only because of a hastily- assembled alliance of tech firms and privacy groups.

I disclosed in a 2012 article for CNET, before I left to found [http://recent.io/](http://recent.io/), that FBI general counsel's office has drafted related legislation mandating backdoors even before the current flap over Android and iOS FDE.

 _" If you create a service, product, or app that allows a user to communicate, you get the privilege of adding that extra coding," an industry representative who has reviewed the FBI's draft legislation told CNET._ [http://www.cnet.com/news/fbi-we-need-wiretap-ready-web- sites...](http://www.cnet.com/news/fbi-we-need-wiretap-ready-web-sites-now/)

HN readers may want to pay attention...

<comment><USER4> > Think of how that would have affected Linux (Android uses dm-crypt for FDE), > open source, Github, etc

A concern of mine is that unlike the others you mention, Apples software isn't open - we have no ability to check there aren't already backdoors resulting from secret court orders.

Perhaps going forward 2015 going "open" will be the only way to build trust with a client is offer an open or reproducible means to replicate any claims made about suitability of encryption and lack of a backdoor both on client and server.

<comment><USER5> You can't really check Android binary distributions either.

<comment><USER4> Indeed not and there're also other concerns in that sphere (baseband and the underlying network/protocols, SS7 etc).

But there's some movement in the right direction (Cyanogen, F-droid and the various open phone hardware projects)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Greenyoda's comment that "speaking a language the police don't understand should be a crime by this logic" is I think the neatest encapsulation of the issues. It gets around all the technical issues and worries and strikes at the heart of the problem - the police should and can put away criminals without needing access to the private conversations the criminals have. Fingerprints, CCTV, loot stashed under the bed have all been good enough for a long time now.

The crimes that are committed solely online are few and mostly fraud by deception. There are clear issues with deceiving people in a language they don't understand.

So I like the metaphor (or analogy I'm not sure)

<comment><USER7> Totally agree.

Most peoples' eyes glaze over when you talk about things like Shannon's Law, cipher strength, entropy, backdoors, authentication vs encryption, trust models, metadata (which IS data, goddammit), and threat models.

This avoids all the complexity without losing the core issue.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> _" Federal and state governments should consider passing laws that forbid smartphones, tablets and other such devices from being 'sealed off from law enforcement,' Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance said today..."_

If they ever pass these laws, the next step would be to outlaw encrypting the hard drive on your laptop or using PGP to encrypt your e-mail. Also, speaking on the phone in a language that the police don't understand could be made a crime.

<comment><USER9> The Language thing is unnecessary. Since they record all calls they can find someone to translate later. But maybe you're right and that is too much trouble for them.

<comment><USER10> or you could make up your own language, maybe should sort of encrypted speech.

<comment><USER11> This is the problem I see with outlawing encryption entirely. At what point does something become "encrypted" w/r/t the law? This may seem like a silly question, but I think it's a real concern:

Is rot13 encryption? (No, of course not!, you say.)

How about a shift cipher with an unknown distance? (Well... it's just as trivially breakable as rot13..., you say.)

How about a book cipher? This one I particularly like, being quite amenable to your idea of "encrypted speech": does reading out a book cipher over the phone constitute "encryption" in some sense? And I also considered it for the lavabit case: if the gov't has a wiretap warrant for your phone, under their reasoning in lavabit, couldn't they compel you to disclose the key to the book cipher in that case? That seems to be crossing the 5th amendment line there, to me; toeing the line of the 1st and 4th as well. And so, I thought at the time, it seems pretty obvious that the "assistance" clause of the wiretap law did /not/ compel revealing the key any more than it would compel revealing the key of the spoken book cipher.

<comment><USER12> This type of ambiguity is not uncommon in law. My guess would be that they would look at intent (ie, did you manipulate the message to make it difficult for a third party to understand), as well as defectiveness (ie, rot26 is so stupid that we will only charge you with attempted encryption).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> This is really about law enforcement being too lazy to do their own jobs properly. Here's a story:

I run a dating website and was contacted by law enforcement to provide contact information for a user suspected of soliciting sex from a minor. The information was forwarded to police on behalf of the parent of the minor. As per our privacy policy, we informed the police that we will need a court authorized subpoena before handing over details about one of our users. They also informed me NOT to ban the user or otherwise disrupt his account in any way until they receive the evidence they need from me.

Weeks passed, then months, and finally I had our attorney reach out and contacted them again to ask what happened with the case, and it turns out the subpoena was blocked on some kind of administrative issue. They didn't bother telling us so that we could ban the suspect from the site sooner. In addition, they could have easily gotten the information they were looking for by using the dating site to act as a minor and get the information themselves directly from the suspect (they had the username). Our attorney told us that never once did the investigator log onto the site themselves.

This is one small story, but just goes to show you the extent of the laziness that pervades law enforcement today.

<comment><USER14> Perhaps lazy, perhaps working 20 other cases, or just lacking technical sophistication. If it was me it would be much simpler to issue a subpoena then engage in some sort of sting operation where things could go wrong.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> _"They've eliminated accessibility in order to market the product. Now that means we have to figure out how to solve a problem that we didn't create."_

Ermm ... I'd argue that dragnet mass surveillance is exactly one of the causes. Good security should be the default position. That we've had poor security to date should be the considered the real aberration.

<comment><USER16> This is all bull. There are skilled IT forensics people who can access these devices without the permission of the owner as long as they seize them on.

As far as I know the key needs to be kept in ram which means it is vulnerable while the device is on.

This only prevents dragnet surveillance; nothing more.

<comment><USER17> There are proof of concepts to keep the key in registers, for example [http://www1.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/tresor](http://www1.informatik.uni- erlangen.de/tresor)

That prevents coldboot attacks and other means of reading the key out of memory.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> > Earlier today Vance gave the keynote speech at the conference, hosted by the > Federal Bureau of Investigation, saying he was going "rouge" by speaking out > on the matter. He made an emotional plea that police might not be able to > stop crimes against children or solve murders without access to the data.

They somehow solved these crimes before the advent of these devices.

Also, I personally regard stopping the NSA from spying on Americans - <USER2> Americans - without cause to be stopping a bigger, and more important, crime than stopping the number of crimes that the encryption would stop them from solving. It's stopping a crime against millions of people that corrupt government officials have not only refused to properly investigate and prosecute, but have shielded for personal gain, knowing that they were circumventing the law of the land.

Stopping rampant corruption is a good thing, and it's sad that it's fallen to public companies rather than government prosecutors.

<comment> SG- I wonder why they quoted "rouge" (red), did his slide/presentation include the typo?

<comment><USER19> Typically when quoting a typo a journalist writes [sic] to highlight that it isn't their error.

Honestly it just brought back memories of WoW and "Rouge LF guild" spam

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> So they're saying companies should force consumers to forfeit their right to privacy? If a prosecutor wants access to a person's encrypted data, they should go after that person, not the company providing the encryption - <USER3> might as well ban HTTPS if they're really going in this direction.

<comment><USER21> Exactly. The rise of the "cloud" just happens to provide them a nice little loophole that goes around individual's 4th and 5th amendment rights

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> If only there was a law whereby if they could they could describe what they were looking for on the device and demonstrate why they needed access to the device to a sufficent standard that they can then get access. Maybe that would solve their problem ?

Oh wait...

<comment><USER23> But there isn't. If police go to a judge and show probable cause, they can get a warrant and break into that locked shed they think had evidence. A warrant doesn't help against an encrypted phone. Not that I agree with Vances position mind you.

<comment><USER22> If the police can describe what they are looking for on the encrypted volume and get a warrant for it then as per the fourth you provide the item or go to jail for contempt. ("We want the spreadsheet describing the fraudulent transactions") There was a case recently that ruled this way.

If they can't do that then it's a fishing expedition and you can't be compelled to decrypt the volume. There was another case that ruled this way.

Both are completely in line with the fourth amendment and IMHO correct.

Both are being appealed so things could change.

No new laws needed.

<comment><USER24> However, I think that in the case of a password or passphrase (e.g. something that you know) that would trigger decryption of such a spreadsheet you can refuse to give that up under the Fifth Amendment under current caselaw.

With a physical key, you couldn't do that.

<comment><USER22> I think that part is up in the air and will probably be decided by the supreme court sometime in the next few years.

Encryption on a per file basis is somewhat interesting. You've provided the item requested but do you have to provide it in an understandable format ? An interesting analogy would be if you had a document written in a language (say shorthand) only you could understand, could you be compelled to provide a translation ?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Dear Apple and Google, please do our job for us because we are understaffed and underfunded.

Signed,

All the LEO that grew fat on anti-terror and surveillance money.

<comment><USER26> "understaffed and underfunded"

More like lazy and unwilling to learn. You have to wonder if the guy saying this has even made a cursory effort to investigate the issue of if he is just doing the only thing he know how to do, run his mouth.

<comment><USER25> I was sarcastic. Obviously he didn't. But he thinks of the children. After all the cases when a children is kidnapped, we have a suspect and his phone in custody, but we are not able to see the data inside (metadata about his movements we have though) which is critical to finding it are so prevalent ...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> This is the best advertising possible for strong crypto. It raises awareness, and then shows crypto is a useful tool against these adversaries.

I can't see a law like this standing on 1A grounds even if passed.

</comment><comment><USER7> > at a cybersecurity conference in New York

Anyone know which conference they're talking about? I'm surprised they didn't name it. (Probably one that the public doesn't know about?)

<comment><USER28> No, It was public and hosted by Fordham University. It did have 'authoritarian' sponsorship though by the FBI and Deloitte. [http://iccs.fordham.edu/program/iccs2015/](http://iccs.fordham.edu/program/iccs2015/)

<comment><USER7> Oh hey, James Clapper is going to be there at 9. What a great opportunity to indict him for perjury.

[http://www.hasjamesclapperbeenindictedyet.com/](http://www.hasjamesclapperbeenindictedyet.com/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Quote from the article:

 _Now that means we have to figure out how to solve a problem that we didn't create._

Bummer. If all you had to do is solve the problems you created yourself, I would propose not creating the problem in the first place.

I understand the jam law enforcement is in but the arguments of Cyrus Vance seem disingenuous. In my eyes, he does a disservice to the cause.

(Edit: Formatting)

</comment><comment><USER30> There is something about technology that gives law enforcement a tingle. Look at Vance's high profile cases [http://manhattanda.org/press- release](http://manhattanda.org/press-release) : arson, multiple cases of embezzlement, securities fraud, sexual assault... Not one case that needs to break encryption to convict.

The lesson is that as soon as they realize they can't do anything about it, it will cease to be a hot button issue. Just like the rest of the limitations on law enforcement. Encryption should be pervasive and routine. Then it will be ignored.

</comment><comment><USER31> Is Vance really doing his job? The article says ""It's developed into a sort of high-stakes game," Vance said. "They've eliminated accessibility in order to market the product. " this implies it is something the average consumer wants (there aren't enough criminals to make it marketable) again, this is something the consumers want. Vance should not be trying to prevent it from happening, just because it might save the children. Crimes were solved before, and they will continue to be solved. And people like Vance need to be fired for not doing there job.

</comment><comment><USER32> "He made an emotional plea that police might not be able to stop crimes against children or solve murders without access to the data." It's FOR THE CHILDREN! Of course.

<comment><USER33> Frontline has a great 2-part documentary on the NSA mass-surveillance program called "United States of Secrets" [1]. (It is available on Netflix)

One of the striking things I took away from that documentary was the rhetoric used to disuade would-be leakers, whistle-blowers, and media outlets that had learned about "the program". In almost every case they would be brought into the White House and briefed in an effort to convince them to keep their silence. The common refrain that was related by all the different parties was the White House (both administrations) would consistently tell the leakers: If you do this the blood will be on your hands for the next terrorist attack.

Sadly this sort of rhetoric really work(ed/s) on people.

[1] [http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/united-states-of- sec...](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/united-states-of-secrets/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> I love this quote... "Now that means we have to figure out how to solve a problem that we didn't create."

But they did create the problem via excessive blind collection of data, illegal warrantless searches. Falsified investigation trails and a number of other issues not-withstanding...

It'd be like telling safe manufacturers that they have to design in a trivial bypass for their safes so that law enforcement can get in easier... it wouldn't fly.

<comment><USER35> Well, more strongly than that, I don't see where there's any "problem". Police agencies can now issue warrants to force someone holding encrypted data to decrypt it. I've not seen anyone seriously claiming that there's a problem with people opening data that's been requested in this legal manner.

They're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist, and paying for their solution with our privacy.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> So my question would be, if we see this coming down the road can we prevent our phones from being updated and losing the protection we have?

<comment><USER37> If you see this coming down the road, the way to stop it is through political grassroots action.

And before the cynics chime with all the reasons that can't work, consider that it DID work when this exact same issue came before Congress in the late 1990s.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_wars](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_wars)

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> I wonder whether there is any legal basis for idea that technologies should be circumventable by law enforcement. I'm not talking about particular laws but rationales - something in judicial decision or common law.

I also wonder whether safe manufacturers ever were obligated to make safes that were accessible by law enforcement.

</comment><comment><USER39> I wonder if they'll make it illegal to install a door that can't be kicked in?

<comment><USER40> Actually in many states fortifying your home is already a crime.

<comment><USER41> "Actually in many states fortifying your home is already a crime."

In what way? Plenty of people have steel security doors. What exactly do you mean by fortifying and what law?</comment></comment></comment>