A small Wisconsin company stored thousands of people's CDs, then vanished - <AUTHOR> https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/13/21019565/murfie-madison-wisconsin-store-stream-cd-vinyl-collection-closed <comment><USER2> "Every CD and vinyl record you store at Murfie HQ is your property. We take that very seriously. In the event Murfie goes out of business, you will get back every CD and vinyl record you own in your current collection."

A buyer beware for future sites that promise something similar to the above, it's not worth the webpage it's printed on. Regardless of initial sincerity, this could change at a moment's notice.

<comment><USER3> As someone hoping to build a service like this, I hope they can salvage this situation.

I've already reached out in a few places with an offer of help, and am going to fly out there to knock on their door Monday morning.

Ownership of physical media means something, and the rights the owners have must be protected.

<comment><USER2> Please follow up here with the results! I'm sure there are many people interested in the result.

<comment><USER3> I'm in Madison now. Nobody is actually in charge, but all the CDs are still at the storage facility for now. It's truly an impressive sight.

The person answering the CDreturns2u email address has collected some money from customers and is paying 3 of the last employees to slowly ship media out. He's overloaded with requests and is attempting to answer each one in order, but has several hundred still in the queue. Even sending all requested media back can't solve the whole situation here though. There's just too many disks and not enough time.

I met with one of the creditors and the landlord, and have a meeting scheduled with the other major creditor. Nobody wants to see the CDs thrown away, but the landlord wants to be paid. I've proposed a plan to move all the media to my facility where I could store it as long as needed and would handle all the returns. I'd also work to restore digital access for media still in storage.

There is still hope. Maybe even the start of something better? I've been procrastinating on the launch of Crossies.com for far too long, but it looks like fate is forcing my hand.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I interviewed and got offered to work here. I saw the inside. They had like 1 guy working on ruby and he was leaving. Probably 5 or 10 college students sorting through big pallets of cds. This was like 2016.

</comment><comment><USER5> Murfie customer here. 125 CD's

Not surprised this happened, not particularly upset.

Years ago I moved to Sonos, did not have a CD player anymore, and did not want to go through the trouble of ripping and storing (where?) my collection. So this was great.

When I started using Apple Music, they had everything anyway for $10/month, and never bothered to use Murfie.

If I ever thought I had something valuable, I would never have shipped them to some startup.

<comment><USER6> I have always wondered, I have ripped hundreds of CDs which sit in boxes which i never expect to access again; i do not even own a cd player.

do I need to keep them indefinitely? what if they were lost, would I be obligated to delete the rips?

<comment><USER7> IANAL, but here's a section from the relevant law:

[https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#117](https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#117)

Based on that, I don't think you would need to delete them.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> They really seem to be banking on the idea that no one will be able to _stop_ them from chucking all of the CD's by the end of December, and then telling them "There's nothing we can do now" if they're hauled to court in 2020.

</comment><comment><USER9> It's really a shame. I used murfie to get albums that were never released as digital albums. Especially old game or movie soundtracks, the ones you wouldn't find on your go-to platform, because they are too much of a niche. There were a lot of gems. For me, I only wanted to have the FLAC anyway, so I'm not sorry about the physical discs... But of course, I'm sorry for everyone who has their collection there.

</comment><comment><USER10> A shame. I bought a CD from them, which they kept in storage, and I was instantly able to stream it. (I couldn't get that music any other way at the time.) I have hundreds and hundreds of albums, maybe more than a thousand, but I still couldn't see myself sending them to someone to rip and store.

</comment><comment><USER11> I only first heard about this company earlier this year, and was pretty excited because they were the only way to buy DRM-free lossless, CD-quality music at a reasonable price (without having to ship and rip an actual CD). But I was concerned that their business model was unsustainable - keeping an inventory of millions of physical discs is a big ask.

It's surprising to me that there is still no iTunes-like service that just sells CD-quality audio. Sure there is HDTracks, but their price is way too high to be reasonable (usually double the iTunes price, or more) and their selection is pretty limited. Even Amazon's music store, with it's "Auto-Rip" feature when you buy a real CD, only gives you 256k MP3s. So for now, the most reasonable way for me to download FLACs is to torrent.

<comment><USER12> > It's surprising to me that there is still no iTunes-like service that just > sells CD-quality audio.

Isn't that Tidal's thing?

<comment><USER13> Tidal rents out the audio, they don't sell it. All of Apple Music, Tidal, Google Music or whatever it's called now, and Spotify are lacking when it comes to simply having _every_ song in my library. There are always tracks getting grayed out from each service's rental libary due to shifting agreements and margins.

That all said, Tidal sounds amazing and its videos are extremely high quality as well. I had serious issues with its desktop client last time I tried which caused me to switch back to spotify. The library is much smaller as well but that didn't matter as much because of the clear tradeoff in quality.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> _"Abandoned discs will be recycled by the end of December," read an email, "when the storage facility must be vacated."_

Sounds like a job for the Jason Scott...

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10064565](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10064565)

...not to actually archive them, but to help the original owners get their property back.

</comment><comment><USER15> i am curious what percentage of the materials could be considered rare. it seems like most people with rare material wouldn't send it to a service like this.

another thought...how many of those CDs came from columbia house ;)

<comment><USER16> while I had some idea of what some of my rare cd's were when I started to liquidate my own collection, I was quite surprised by how many I didn't expect to be rare actually were. so, I'm not sure how many people who were willing to send off their cd's themselves would do the due diligence to find out the rareness of their own collection.

<comment><USER15> yeah good point, and im not sure how easy it is to appraise a CD collection to begin with

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> As the owner of a giant CD collection I'm honestly kind of bummed I didn't hear about this service sooner. About 6 months ago I spent a solid week gathering and ripping a ton of my older CDs to lossless. I still have a ton of albums that are just VBR mp3 I didn't care enough to re-rip.

<comment><USER18> > I'm honestly kind of bummed

Even after learning that you would have lost your entire collection?

<comment><USER17> I'd have them all ripped, right? Honestly I'd happily trade them all for lossless copies and my basement back.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Google Maps shows an old address for Murfie Music where a new 8 story tower was built recently (I work in the new tower next to it). Anyone know where their last known location was?

<comment><USER20> This article from Madison.com says they moved to Middleton in 2016.

[https://madison.com/business/when-the-music-stops-madison- ba...](https://madison.com/business/when-the-music-stops-madison-based-murfie- unexpectedly-ceases- operations/article_71cba39e-46b2-5657-8e5c-04cae259d8cc.html)

<comment><USER20> This Better Business Bureau posting states the address as 8001 Terrace Ave Ste 203, MIddleton, WI

[https://www.bbb.org/us/wi/middleton/profile/online- shopping/...](https://www.bbb.org/us/wi/middleton/profile/online- shopping/murfiecom-0694-1000011773)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> It sucks but it also seems no worse than 100 other startups that close up shop every month, or big company cloud services that get disscontinued. The user data in this case just happened to be stored on little plastic discs rather than AWS.

At least it sounds like everyone had a local copy of their bits.

</comment><comment><USER22> There are companies that will store your gold and silver too

O.O

</comment><comment><USER23> Not your keys not your CDs.

</comment><comment> java-man I would have assigned a high probability to this outcome from the beginning. Why would anyone want to send their CDs (or any other valuables) to a third party without express guarantees for getting it back?

<comment> mark-r The article was quite clear on this in multiple places, there were guarantees that you still owned the media and that it would be returned.

The problem is, who guarantees the guarantors?

<comment> java-man Exactly my point. With deposits, you have FDIC insurance.

With this, you have nothing.

<comment><USER24> This is a _great_ reason to have discs backed up in digital form (in multiple orgs, not locations). Insurance covers the value lost, but not the content. Archive/Backup All The Things. Physical media archived away someone with no other copies? _Not even once._

<comment><USER25> That's how music master tapes are stored. Irreplaceable originals often stored by contractors. [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/11/magazine/universal- fire-m...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/11/magazine/universal-fire-master- recordings.html)

<comment> mark-r In some cases, they've decided the digital backups are good enough and destroyed the irreplaceable originals. On purpose, not by accident.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Bill Gates: Creative Capitalism (2008) - <AUTHOR> http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1828417,00.html

<comment><AUTHOR> I found this interesting because, in the HN bubble, we mostly talk about monetizing solutions for the problems of privileged folk. For example, Paul Graham's "Startup Ideas We'd Like to Fund".

Bill Gates argues that solving the problems of the less-privileged doesn't have to be purely philanthropic -- there's actually profit to be had if you know how to find the right market.

This was written in 2008. Have there been notable examples of creative capitalism since then?

<comment><USER2> Bill Gates built Microsoft around the vision "of a personal computer on every desk and in every home" into not only a large and profitable company but into the largest personal fortune of all time.

[<http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/gat0int-1>]

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> People who get pumped up by articles like these: Google 'integrative thinking'. Its a novel way to approach problem solving. A phenomenon uncovered by a prof from University of Toronto.

edit: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2748346></comment>


HP founding minutes: erm, let's just do some stuff - <AUTHOR> http://blog.businessofsoftware.org/2008/12/hp-founding-minutes.html

<comment><USER2> Also testified to in Jessica's book.

The biggest lesson I got from it is that oftentimes all it takes to start something big is deciding that you actually want to start it. Don't let uncertainty about how you'll become a profitable business stop you from pursuing ideas you have.

</comment><comment><USER3> i think this is a case of reading too much into something in search for "lessons". investors are right to be looking for the things they look for, because HP is an exceptional exception. tens of thousands of smart guys that "just wanted to work together" didn't get far.

<comment><USER4> At the same time though, you get several bright people who work together really well and suddenly there is no need to stick to one "great idea". Business plans change all the time. What matters most is the ability of that team to adapt to the changes around them.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> > appalling timing (in the tail-end of the great depression, just before the > second world war),

Isn't that awesome timing? Depression over, cusp of giant government spending and demand for innovation whatever the cost due to war.

<comment><USER6> At the time, though, the U.S. was still in a depression, and I doubt that either founder expected a war that would be great for their business.

This is why my favorite Goethe quote is: "Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it."

<comment><USER7> Oops! Turns out this quote isn't by Goethe after all but by W.H. Murray. Check it out: (<http://german.about.com/library/blgermyth12.htm>). The original quote which this one is based on was "Now at last let me see some deeds!" which is a line from Faust... :-)

<comment><USER6> Faust... that worked out well. ;p

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Isn't most businesses started with a small group of people wanting to go into business together? They may have a slightly more articulated idea of what to do, but still nowhere near an elevator pitch. The HP founders just took the "hey, we should do something together" conversation over lunch and formalized it.

Once they struck sales with their model 200 audio oscillator, they became as focused as any successful company.

</comment><comment><USER9> Great story, this is how magic is created. Few mates getting together and want to create something. It's not the idea that count, its the motivation!!

</comment><comment><USER10> the minutes: [http://www.communities.hp.com/online/blogs/hparchives/archiv...](http://www.communities.hp.com/online/blogs/hparchives/archive/2008/11/27/original- business-plan-1937.aspx)

By what criterion did they decide if a field looks "good" or not? It matters less what you see than _how_ you see.

It looks like market assessment, probably based on likely growth in demand, existing competitors and the HP founders' capabilities to make a "[technical] contribution" (as they later came to call it).</comment>


Python Voted Best Programming Language 3 Years Running - <AUTHOR> http://www.blog.pythonlibrary.org/2011/12/07/python-voted-best-programming-language-3-years-running/ <comment><USER2> I am a smug lisper, so you can probably guess what I think of poll results like this...

</comment><comment><USER3> Best? I get voting for _favorite_ language.. but a _Best_ programming language contest is flamebait and silly.

(I say this as a passionate Python programmer, in case anyone's suspecting envy)</comment>


CC companies don't care about, name, address & zip verification? - <AUTHOR>

I was getting 200s from Stripe with bad card data.tl;dr:"CVC and address verification [zip]
We strongly encourage that you collect, submit, and verify this data in order to prevent internet fraud, but since the credit card networks do not require either field"
No way to verify the name -- but the card will be declined if it's wrong.On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 7:49 PM, <email@example.com> wrote: No.  You can provide it, and a bank may choose to decline the card if it is incorrect, but you cannot yourself receive the information about whether or not the supplied name was correct.
On Sep 28, 2013 at 12:47 am <firstname.lastname@example.com> wrote: Right, can it be verified?
On Sep 28, 2013 at 12:45 am <firstname.lastname@example.com> wrote: Correct, name is not strictly necessary.
On Sep 27, 2013 at 11:55 p <firstname.lastname@example.com> wrote: Thanks! So name is not necessary
On Sep 27, 2013 at 10:41<email@example.com> wrote: Hi—This behavior is actually configurable: there are two checkboxes on the bottom of your account settings page (https://manage.stripe.com/account) to enable CVC and address verification.
We strongly encourage that you collect, submit, and verify this data in order to prevent internet fraud, but since the credit card networks do not require either field, we want to give our users the flexibility of choosing what data to collect when accepting payments. <comment><USER2> All you need to move money from a credit card to your bank account is a card number. You don't have to collect, let alone verify, anything else at all.

If it turns out you don't have permission to do that, because the person presenting that card number is not the owner of the card, you'll lose that money, pay a fee, and your ability to accept other cards will be at risk.

AVS and CVC checks are tools to help you decide what payments _you_ want to accept or reject. They're inputs for your fraud scoring algorithm. With some processors, you also get a discount for making use of them, as the processor and card network would both prefer not to have to drop you for getting too many chargebacks.

</comment><comment><USER3> The credit card number itself is optional too.

<comment><USER4> Could you kindly elaborate on how you would charge someone's credit card immediately without the CC number? (that is, specifically NOT via cheque, bank number, wire transfer, or cash)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> The more data you collect the harder it is for someone to claim they didn't authorize the charge. So know you don't need all that data, but if you had a dispute you would wish you had it.

Since your transaction fees are based partially on your dispute rates not collecting this data could move you from 3% to 5 or even 7%.

Imagine giving an extra 2% of your Gross to fees. So people collect more to limit fraud.</comment>


Exodus finds your Twitter friends on Identi.ca - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/epixa/Exodus

<comment><USER2> Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what exactly this app does, but I think identi.ca already has this functionality:

1) Settings 2) Twitter 3) Check: Subscribe to my Twitter friends here.

<comment><USER3> To be honest, I'm not entirely sure what that option does on identi.ca. I have it enabled, and it doesn't appear to have done anything in particular yet? Perhaps someone with more knowledge on the setting could elaborate.

Exodus doesn't do any modifications to your twitter nor your identi.ca account. Instead, it retrieves all of the people that you follow on twitter and lists any of them that also have identi.ca accounts on your screen.

If you were thinking about dropping twitter entirely, this could help you make a more informed decision before you switch: do you really want to switch when only 10% of your friends on twitter actually have identi.ca accounts? Or on the opposite end, if you prefer identi.ca and see that 90% of your friends also have identi.ca accounts, then go ahead and subscribe to those users and jump ship.

The app doesn't do anything magical; it simply gives you information. What you do with it is up to you.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I'm the author of Exodus (no affiliation with the recent itunes app gay-cure scandal), and I wanted to put a plea out there that if any of you do try this out and encounter any issues with it, please feel free to post issues on github. It is a simple app, and I don't really intend to do significantly more work on it, but I would like to fix any bugs that arise.

Rendering of exceptions is enabled by default in development, but if you're running the app in "production" (which is the default environment), just enable the debug > renderExceptions flag inside config/settings/production.php.

Thanks!

</comment><comment><USER4> Cool app. Bookmarked because I'm thinking of switching. @pdenya on twitter for now.</comment>


UPenn DIY Companion Cube with LED's - <AUTHOR> http://youtu.be/xOFvoRBPGo8 Come on, who here wouldn't want one of these? <comment><AUTHOR> Source code in the blog here: <http://companioncube.posterous.com/>

</comment><comment><USER2> Looks cool!</comment>


Basic Attention Token - <AUTHOR> https://basicattentiontoken.org/ <comment><USER2> Any idea that starts with "and first, we get the user to switch their browser" has immediately raised their own barrier to entry so ridiculously high, were you to stand on top of it you'd be able to see the curvature of the Earth. What a stupid thing to do.

They also list that 600 million devices are actively blocking ads, meaning these people went _out of their way_ to not see ads. Now you want them to _switch browser_ just so that they can _see ads_ \- are they on crack?

BAT? BATshit crazy...

<comment><USER3> I think the idea is that if advertising on the web respected users, they wouldn't feel the need to block ads. This is their attempt to make advertising work in a way that helps everyone.

What's the alternative? If every web user blocked all ads, content creators couldn't get any revenue and would stop making content.

<comment><USER4> _I think the idea is that if advertising on the web respected users, they wouldn 't feel the need to block ads._

The users have heard that too often. We're all out of trust to give.

 _If every web user blocked all ads, content creators couldn 't get any revenue and would stop making content._

If every web user blocked all ads, content creators wouldn't be able to get any revenue from ads. There are other ways of getting revenue.

 _What 's the alternative?_

There's what @libeclipse said in his comment: if you somehow make this tech work in popular browsers, then there are people who might be willing to try it and maybe it becomes the accepted solution.

Other than that? Paid content. Yes, that makes it harder for content creators to get money and harder for content consumers to get free content. So what?

Are we really so convinced that everyone who creates anything deserves to be paid for it? Do we really need so much free content? More specifically, are we all so convinced of these two things that we're okay with giving up our rights on how to render web content on our own computers? 'Cause that's what it boils down to in the end.

<comment><USER3> I just think it's silly to completely throw out the idea of ad-based revenue because currently the ad culture sucks. More paid content? Ok, sure. But what if we could also have ads that didn't suck? I think it's a worthy goal.

<comment><USER5> The nature of ads is to be hostile and misleading to the people viewing them. Their purpose is to drive demand where none previously existed, they are at odds with the user.

<comment><USER3> That's a simplistic viewpoint. If ads weren't useful at all, no one would click on them, or, if they did, they wouldn't buy whatever was at the other end.

There is such a thing as artificially inflated demand, which can be a problem, but I don't think it's likely that _all_ advertising falls in that bucket.

<comment><USER6> It would be interesting to have some examples of ads that you regard as not falling in that bucket.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> User: why don't I just run an open source adblocker that doesn't serve me ads?

Publisher: you are extorting me into using your platform by blocking my partners' ads.

Advertiser: you are extorting me into using your platform by blocking my ads.

<comment><USER3> > User: yes, but why don't I just run an ad-blocker and wait for the tragedy > of the commons to befall content publishers?

The problem with this is that it doesn't influence incentives in the right way. If your goal is to replace advertising entirely, there needs to be something to replace it. If your goal is to make advertising better, you need to reward the "good ads" (whatever that means) by selectively showing them.

If you just don't care and don't want to see ads, I guess you're in the majority but you're not really helping anything.

<comment><USER8> > If you just don't care and don't want to see ads, I guess you're in the > majority but you're not really helping anything.

It's not my job to help anything. Other people's revenue models are not my problem.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Something a lot of these comments are currently missing is the fact that the video specifically described that:

1\. The brave browser by default blocks ads and tracking software.

2\. That advertisements are opt-in only in the brave browser.

So while this is a subtle advertisement for the Brave Browser[0], I think this is also a clean separation from the browser in attempt to create a new form of advertising. While obviously those defaults can change, I'd imagine the reason for the clean separation between the BAT and the Brave Browser is because users would be significantly more hesitant to join if the "goal" of the browser was an alternative for of advertising. On that merit I would evaluate the browser separately from this idea.

Ignoring the integration with the Brave browser though, one issue for this is that this doesn't solve the fundamental problem of a company that might have a boring product, that wants to advertise and is willing to pay for it. Google will take your money, and show your ads to the relevant market. People click on those ads, and drive engagement to the company. Most companies don't have exciting enough products to be able to drive engagement with simply the "product".

Another issue is that if the BAT tokens are generated from users attention and the quality of the ads, and NO user information is stored like is claimed here, then there would engagement would most likely be significantly less than with other advertisers, as the advertising market is then expanded to all people, rather than the demographic the company is trying to hit. This would mean that whatever monetization form Brave comes up with is going to have to be a lot cheaper than what Google is charging, because I can almost guarantee engagement suffer drastically.

Finally, as a quick test, I don't even see the browser succeeding on the basis of blocking "all" ad content, as it doesn't even block Facebook ads with the "block all ads" setting checked[1]. I'd imagine because Facebook sends their ads along with the actual page content, which I'd also imagine most other ad companies would figure out a way to do if Brave becomes more successful.

[0] [https://brave.com/](https://brave.com/)

[1] [http://imgur.com/kN8l8Ph](http://imgur.com/kN8l8Ph)

<comment><USER2> _Facebook sends their ads along with the actual page content_

I use Swipe Pro on my android, and it blocks those just fine

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> So users need to use their "Brave" browser? What do they gain from this, apart from earning "BAT"s that seems to only allow access to premium features on that browser?

Also, what happens to actual real ads? Are they blocked and replaces by their own ads by the browser?

<comment><USER11> Yeah. This seems a bit nonsense. The browser "blocks trackers"... while also tracking you. Smells like bullshit to me. As far as I can tell the main selling point is it's using the current buzzword that makes everyone get all hot and bothered: "blockchain"

<comment><USER3> Tracking is important for delivering "relevant" ads, which many people would prefer. The real issue is that the different ad networks spew their trackers across the web, without respect for users' privacy or user experience.

I don't really think Brave's solution here is fully-baked, but the idea of replacing all those third-party trackers with one that's on-device and (presumably) I can have some degree of control over sounds like a step in the right direction.

<comment><USER12> > Tracking is important for delivering "relevant" ads, which many people would > prefer.

I know that advertisers prefer this, but I'm not quite convinced that most users do.

The most polarizing example of this is, of course, remarketing.

<comment><USER3> I think it seems plausible. If any users get value out of advertising (and I think they do), then more relevant ones would have more value for them.

That said, if advertisers simply respected "do not track", we could see for ourselves how true that is.

<comment><USER12> What value do users get out of brand advertising (The staple of much-loathed display ads)?

What difference does it make to me, that I see a bunch of ads for Coke, versus Pepsi? Surely, I'm well aware that sugary drinks exist. The ad isn't notifying me of a particular sale, or a discount. All it does, is remind me that sugar water exists, and that I should buy their brand of sugar water.

This is hardly a gain for me, or society. It's certainly a gain for Coke...

<comment><USER3> Well ok, brand advertising is one kind of ad, which is probably less useful for people. I still think there's a marginal benefit though, to having highly recognizable brands around.

I don't really like ads either, all I'm saying is that it's simplistic to say ads have zero value to people. If that were true there would be no reason to advertise anyway.

<comment><USER12> Brand advertising tends to be among the most obnoxious kind of advertising. (And I'm not even mentioning the 'Your computer has a virus/One Weird Trick To Shrink Your Belly' scams.)

There is a benefit to _certain_ highly recognized brands. Dyson makes great vacuums (Or, it used to - now people only think it does.) Toyota makes reliable vehicles. Coke vs Pepsi, though? It's sugar water. It's a commodity, with no differentiation in quality. It is quite literally, up to personal preference.

> I'm saying is that it's simplistic to say ads have zero value to people.

There are plenty of reasons to engage in zero-sum, or even negative-sum activities. Even if advertising as a whole adds value (Which I think is too close to call), a very large part of it does not.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> This really doesn't make sense. With Bitcoin, I know there are lots of people who will accept them in exchange for real goods and services. With "BAT" Tokens, I don't know why anyone would want them.

He mentions that tracking and adblocking are wasteful, but I view them as a beautiful example of how the market implicitly equilibrates itself to provide the "right amount" of advertising.

I like Brave, but it seems to me that they are over-engineering a non-problem.

<comment><USER14> The idea might be: you can sell your bat for bitcoin to advertisers

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Why should I switch browsers? Don't tell me it's just to help out advertisers.

<comment><USER16> Perhaps you might consider switching if that is the only way that you can get control over the information about you that leaks out on many pages that you visit, words on pages that your mouse hovers over, words that you type in, friends you make, and so on.

Do you think that it might be impossible to get control over all of that information?

It is possible, and it is happening.

<comment><USER17> Or you could run firefox with ublock and privacybadger. Ads and tracking are blocked as well or better than with Brave, and as a bonus, I don't see advertisements.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I see no value added by using "blockchain" buzzword for a centralized system like this. It isn't even privacy protecting.

This is an obvious use case for 1) some kind of database/book entry system, centralized, if you don't care about anonymity or 2) blinded Chaumian tokens, if you want anonymity (which has security/risk model costs)

</comment><comment><USER19> I feel like this is a promo website for season 4 of Silicon Valley.

<comment><USER20> sponsored by Hooli

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> An interesting idea but I find it hard to see this taking off and becomming the norm. They need to sell it to Google or something so they don't have to rely on the browser.

Also, rewarding users with "premium content" or let them "donate it to publsihers" doesn't seem too realistic.

I like the idea but I see some major hurdles before this takes off.

<comment><USER2> _I see some major hurdles before this takes off._

The understatement of the century...

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Can there ever be a mechanism that prevents people from reverse engineering the protocol to announce to the network that they're viewing ads, so that they can earn BATs for doing nothing? Their incentive would be to use these BATs to pay for premium content. This would undermine the value of BATs and damage the ecosystem.

<comment><USER16> The protocol would likely not allow BATs to be earned in browsers not properly implementing the protocol (measuring attention on a web page while protecting privacy, etc). And then instances of Brave and any other browser implementing this protocol could easily be cryptographically confirmed to the ad network.

<comment><USER23> Ha!

In related news, I've figured out a way to totally eliminate automated email spam. It involves replacing SMTP with a new protocol that doesn't allow messages to be delivered unless the sending server cryptographically confirms that a real human pushed the "send" button.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> > Brave is a fast, open source, privacy-focused browser

> The Brave browser knows where users spend their time

Well, which one is it?

<comment><USER25> The browser is software running on your own computer. It can know that without sharing that information.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> So publishers will receive BATs instead of $$? Can BATs be sold for money? The website only says "BATs can be used for premium content or services on the Brave platform.".

<comment><USER26> It seems that the under this system advertisers have to buy BATs in order to show ads. Sorta makes sense. Sites get BATs for getting views, users get BATs for viewing ads, and advertisers need BATs connect to users.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> This looks like too much effort. Here is a far simpler idea: just hypnotize people via ads so they willingly disable ad blockers, click on every ad they see and ultimately buy so much stuff they go broke.

</comment><comment><USER28> I wonder which white-box browser this is built on.

<comment><USER29> Brave, which is based on Blink.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> Wasn't Brave going to use Bitcoin?

<comment><USER30> Well, it's Bitcoin (tm) Blockchain (tm) Etherum (tm) BAT (tm) alt-currency. It makes as much sense as the rest of the idea.</comment></comment>


EventHub – An open source event analytics platform - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/Codecademy/EventHub

<comment><USER2> Cool! If I get a chance, I will take a look and see how easy it would be to plug this as a storage/analytics option into the Snowplow Kinesis flow ([https://github.com/snowplow/snowplow/tree/master/3-enrich/sc...](https://github.com/snowplow/snowplow/tree/master/3-enrich/scala- kinesis-enrich)).

</comment><comment><USER3> This is good example of how to answer 'big data' questions without big expensive distributed systems via the magic of lots of RAM and probabilistic data structures.

<comment><USER4> great point and this is the exact rationale behind the architectural design

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> if you are interested, there is also a separate blog post, [http://www.codecademy.com/blog/143-eventhub-open-sourced- fun...](http://www.codecademy.com/blog/143-eventhub-open-sourced-funnel- analysis-cohort-analysis-and-a-b-testing-tool), in which we talk about some high level architecture consideration

<comment><USER5> Thank you for sharing! Would be great to see course material on codecademy that walks people through the EventHub API.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Are you using this in Production now? I took a stab at something similar in Ruby ([https://github.com/doomspork/Orwell](https://github.com/doomspork/Orwell)) awhile ago, seeing this makes me want to dust it off and add new features. Thanks for sharing!

</comment><comment><USER7> This looks fantastic, kudos for open sourcing

</comment><comment><USER8> The UI looks to be heavily inspired by Mixpanel's

<comment><USER9> One of the first things I noticed when I checked it out. Both MixPanel and Codecademy are YC so I wonder whether there was any communication around it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> can't see d3 for the funnel/cohort charts .. then what are you using for drawing the charts?</comment>


Making the Case for Slackware in 2018 - <AUTHOR> https://hackaday.com/2018/01/30/making-the-case-for-slackware-in-2018/ <comment><USER2> >Frustration Free Packaging

>If you've heard anything bad about Slackware, it's almost certainly been about the software packages. Or more specifically, the lack of intelligent dependency management. In other distributions, the package manager understands what software each package relies on to function, and will prompt you to install them as well to make sure everything works as expected. There is no such system in Slackware, but that is also by design.

>In an effort to make things as simple as possible, the expectation is that you install everything. Slackware is developed and tested with the assumption that you have a full installation of every package in the repository. In fact, this is the default mode for the Slackware installer; you have to switch into "Expert" mode if you don't want everything.

>If you don't want a full install and would rather pick and chose packages, you are free to do so, but you'll need to manually handle dependencies. If you get an error about a missing library when you try to start a program, it's up to you to find out what it depends on and install it. You'll quickly develop a feel for just what is and isn't required in a Linux system by going through and manually solving your own dependencies, which again comes in handy if you are trying to tailor-fit an OS to your specific requirements.

I realise this is worded pretty unambiguously, but can somebody confirm this means what it in fact seems to mean? I find that extraordinary, and though having heard mention of Slackware's packaging system before, I never heard this detail about every package being installed. How does that even work? The repositories must be tiny?!

<comment><USER3> A lot of stuff is in slack builds or other third party repo's.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Not quite slackware but I use Gentoo and have since I was 14 or so. In later years, I never was really continued to use it for leet reasons, it was merely being used to it and it being familiar. I tried to use Ubuntu for a few years but I just got tired of how it would behave when things broke. while gentoo required more time to get to work, I always knew how to fix things.

It's okay, the good thing about Linux, at least for non-production systems, is you have choice. I imagine for some of those who use slackware, it's similar. It's not for leet points or whatever, it's just what they are comfortable with.

</comment><comment><USER5> > So while I might not be able to claim the same Linux Greybeard status as the > folks who installed via floppies on an i386

Hmm... I guess I get to claim 'greybeard' status then. I installed both SLS ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softlanding_Linux_System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softlanding_Linux_System)) and later Slackware from floppies on an i386 (and later a Pentium).

<comment><USER2> I vaguely recall needing some kind of boot floppy on my 3rd or 4th install for some reason, I really had no idea what I was doing at the time. I almost miss the days you picked your distro based on which disk came with your magazine that month. I learnt a lot, although I also cargo-culted far too much.</comment></comment>


Microsoft's Quarterly Income Rises 35% - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/23/technology/23soft.html?hpw <comment><USER2> Rant: Why is this "Hacker news"? This is nothing spectacular, almost everything was in line with analyst estimates. They are suppose to do this every quarter... I can understand Apple earning stories coz they were out of ordinary.

If it starts going this way we will see a bunch of earning non-stories on HN every quarter.

<comment><USER2> Atleast let me know why are you downvoting me?

<comment><USER3> Because Microsoft is by many definitions the largest tech company on the planet?

Also, I don't tend to use Microsoft products but they've shown more adaptability and outright hackerdom over the years and right through to the present day than any other company near their size except maybe Amazon. Credit where it's due.

<comment><USER2> So do you think all MS earnings announcement are suitable for hacker news?

I have no issues with links to cool research going on in MS or a new release. But I just can't seem to understand regular earnings being posted here.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: Training as a service for TensorFlow deep learning models - <AUTHOR> https://fomoro.com/ <comment><AUTHOR> Hello! I'm one of the creators of Fomoro and this is something we've been building over the last couple of weeks. I have a Macbook Pro with no GPU so I frequently use AWS to train models. While AWS doesn't have the best GPUs for deep learning they're still faster than without and as an added benefit I could train as many as I want simultaneously.

Right now, Fomoro simplifies training on spot instances, it's a little rough around the edges but try it out and let me know what you think. Thanks!</comment>


"The Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition laptop is nearly perfect" - <AUTHOR> http://www.networkworld.com/article/3077262/hardware/review-the-dell-xps-13-developer-edition-laptop-is-nearly-perfect.html <comment><USER2> Seems like a PR piece [1].

I wouldn't buy the DELL XPS 13 due to my experience with the Samsung Series 9 and seeing other people use Macbook Air.

All these classes of laptop are not really durable - they last maybe 2-3 years with heavy use - so unless you are ready to shell out a huge amount of money every 2 years for a laptop it it not worth getting these shiny laptops.

My current laptop - Thinkpad X1 Carbon is like a wife - durable and I can have some garantee of failure tolerance.

# There is a reason NASA only approves thinkpads in space - ask yourself why your laptop is not being used by astronauts ?

[1] _'.. Bryan is a writer and works as the Social Media Marketing Manager of SUS ...'_

how does this person know this laptop is good for developers without being a developer ? It says right there that his job is marketing ! wake up sheeps !

<comment><USER3> > # There is a reason NASA only approves thinkpads in space - ask yourself why > your laptop is not being used by astronauts ?

That's amazing, I never knew that. I loved my old Thinkpad T42, got a good 4 years out of it before the hinge on the screen broke.

I thought that was impressive too, given how poorly I treat my equipment. It fell out of my bag numerous times but never had any problems except for the screen hinge finally wearing down at a corner from overuse.

Then I got a 2010 MacBook Air. I'm still using it today. It's got numerous dents on top, bottom and all corners, and a small crack at the bottom of the screen (which strangely hasn't resulted in any dead pixels), but otherwise it's still in full working order. I remain hugely surprised at how well it's lasted.

Despite the general consensus of Macbooks being very well built, and Thinkpads being built like tanks, this anecdote is definitely the opposite way around.

Now if I could get a nipple on a Macbook, or a decent trackpad on a nippled- Thinkpad, I'd have found my perfect laptop!

<comment><USER2> I think your experience was an exception, maybe you were more careful with the MacBook Air subconsciously because you knew it couldn't withstand being thrown around like a cheap whore ?

Also you can watch how the markets values second hand laptops, generally you will see that second hand thinkpads retain more of its original market price then second hand any other laptop.

Having said that thinkpads usually do not have the best screens - but even though its slightly brutal to not have a good screen anymore, I am more comfortable with the fact that I do not have to worry too much about my laptop not working or overheating.

<comment><USER3> > maybe you were more careful with the MacBook Air subconsciously because you > knew it couldn't withstand being thrown around

I suspect the opposite, actually. The T42 I paid for myself and cared for like a baby, until I heard from too many people that it was built like a tank, and started treating it as such. The MBA was originally an employer-supplied laptop, and thus was unloved from the start. It fell to the ground many, many times. All the corners are dented in, and I once built a computer ontop of it without realising (which then dented in the lid, and probably resulted in the crack in the screen).

I powered on the T42 recently. Such a beautiful machine. Shame fixing the screen hinges requires so much disassembly. I have very little chance of doing it correctly, and the value of the laptop is so low now it's not worth paying someone to do it for me.

Sadly, I'll probably end up buying a macbook pro when the next refresh comes through. Too much friction changing platforms again.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I find Thunderbult quite useful (but I'm on a Mac). Not sure why this guy is so against it, presumably there's reasonable peripheral support on other OSes by now?

He talks about editing video on the machine, Thunderbolt should allow for high capacity/speed external storage. I'd prefer the options Thunderbolt provides over HDMI.

<comment><USER5> But are there any real benefits for having Thunderbult on a PC?

I have a few expensive firewire audio equipment that I can no longer use. Sure, they were faster than USB when I first bought them but now they are just paperweights. So next time I am buying high-end equipment I am going to "think different" and go with the majority (i.e. USB 3.0)...

<comment><USER6> Buy a thunderbolt monitor and you'll then realize the benefits. I plug one cable in and I have two 34" monitors running at near 4K resolution, gigabit Ethernet, external storage, and a gamut of USB3 ports. Sure, a lot of that can be done with USB3, but not all. Thunderbolt performance is significantly higher too and the cable is very solid and durable.

<comment><USER5> I think you missed my point. Firewire was also significantly faster than USB when it was announced and see where we are now. I paid extra for a laptop with Firewire ports and then paid extra for equipment that had firewire ports, they are all now expensive paperweights. I am not falling into that trap again.

Also, out of curiosity, do you believe that this laptop has the horsepower to run your 2 x 4K monitors with reasonable performance? Without the fans spinning at max speed all the time?

<comment><USER6> Not sure, but a 13" MacBook Pro w/ integrated graphics certainly does. I've only done two cinema displays with a 13" MacBook Air so sadly can't comment on it, will try that tonight if I get a second, but the specs of this put it more in the MBP category anyway.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Technically speaking, the worst parts is that their SSD is quite slow compared to Macs, and they ship wireless cards that don't support DFS on the 5ghz frequency, that's getting more and more necessary for solid deploy of a 5Ghz network. Not supporting DFS means that you can't use it on a 5Ghz DFS network.

The QHD version has a nice screen but it's hard to use it at its best in Linux, especially when using an external monitor (you can't configure different PPIs on the two monitors because of limitations on X; I know you can try to use Wayland but it's not what it's being shipped; YMMV).

This said, it's obviously a very nice laptop.

<comment><USER8> You can configure two different PPIs, but you need a WM that supports it. Basically you start two X servers with two different PPIs. Not specifically to the laptop but last time I used awesome (the tiling VM) with a 4k and a 1080 monitors.

<comment><USER3> Can you then move windows between screens / X server instances?

<comment><USER8> No, in fact for a couple of programs (Chrome to be the prominent one), if you want to change X server instances you have to make sure it's really close. Also I think copy and paste doesn't work.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Come on: Calling it "Developer Edition" and not having an ethernet port?

<comment><USER10> This.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> > I ended up needing to lower the resolution by half for desktop environments > that just weren't built for such high DPI displays.

About that, what should one do if one wants to run Linux on a computer with a high-resolution screen? For example, does it work well on the Ubuntu that this computer comes with?

<comment><USER12> I have a high-res XPS 13. I can't speak for unity, I use Xfce on it. After a bit of setup (set Xft/DPI, panel size, fonts), most things work pretty well. There's a few special snowflake apps that need custom setup - firefox ignores system dpi, but has its own layout.css.devPixelsPerPx setting that works well. Rarely there'll be an app that ignores dpi and doesn't have its own settings, which you can use xfwm's full-screen-zoom feature to make usable.

The main problem comes when you connect to a (normal-resolution) external monitor, because in X, different monitors (which are just views onto the same underlying X screen) can't have different DPIs. To solve that I set the system dpi correct for the external monitor, and use xrandr screen scaling, ie `xrandr --output eDP1 --scale 0.5x0.5`. (Which means I'm not taking advantage of the high res then, but when I'm using my giant external monitor, it and my laptop are pretty far from my eyes, so I don't care so much. I use a fork of xrandr which uses exact pixel quadrupling when you set a scale of 0.5x0.5, by default it blurs to antialias everything even when it doesn't need to, ie reciprocal-integer scaling values). I have a pair of scripts[0] that run when I plug and unplug my external monitor that make the change reasonably seamless (except for having to restart firefox).

[0] [https://github.com/SimonWoolf/dotfiles/blob/master/.useHighD...](https://github.com/SimonWoolf/dotfiles/blob/master/.useHighDpi.sh) and [https://github.com/SimonWoolf/dotfiles/blob/master/.useScree...](https://github.com/SimonWoolf/dotfiles/blob/master/.useScreenScaling.sh)

<comment><USER11> > firefox ignores system dpi, but has its own layout.css.devPixelsPerPx > setting

I found that this affected only the rendering of pages, not buttons and stuff belonging to the Firefox UI. Did I do it wrong?

<comment><USER12> It does change the ui, but you need to restart firefox for that to take effect

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Oh, if only things like this came with a trackpoint (a decent one).

I live in the anxiety of Thinkpads getting not worth the investment anymore, and having to opt for another machine without this so efficient keyboard/trackpoint combination...

<comment><USER14> Give the Latitude E7470 a shot. I recently switched to one with very similar specs to the XPS 13 and have been very happy with it: Great screen, solid keyboard, 7 hour battery life, and built like a tank.

<comment><USER15> I think the Latitude 7370 would be a better comparison. It's basically an sturdier version of the XPS 13, same tiny bezels and all.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Do any of you have experience in using the QHD Display in this version of the XPS13?

I read somewhere that is a lot glossier than the Full HD non-Developer Edition and is nearly useless with a lot of light in the room or outside.

<comment><USER11> That's my fear as well. A matte screen is the most important property of a computer, in my opinion. It's like rear-wheel drive on a car: it's not worth having one without it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Would be nice to see a comparison with the Surface Book - I've fallen in love with mine, and I understand there's a substantial community for running linux on them.

</comment><comment><USER18> Still, 13". That's too small for serious work, even if it super high resolution - that's only 1/4 of the surface area of a decent monitor.

<comment><USER19> All a matter of personal preference :-)

(I've been 100% on a 12.6" screen for the last year; and was 11" for 3+ years before that (and only moved to the 12.6 because I couldn't find anything smaller that was as powerful as I wanted).)

I'm always hoping for more A4-paper-sized (or smaller) powerful laptops (and I think this is the best option at the moment (just over, but close enough :-) )).

<comment><USER5> But how can you comfortably code on 11"?

I mean, sure it is doable but is it worth the shoulder and back ache it will eventually give you?

<comment><USER20> 11.6" is a good size when the laptop is in your lap, especially in bed. The screen is less than two feet away.

<comment><USER5> But we are talking "developer edition". Do you code laying down in bed?

(not that what you suggest is very ergonomic anyways)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> I hope you don't program on a back monitor. The display turns down the brightness when you're looking at dark things, and up when you're looking at bright things. The only way to disable it is to install windows...</comment>


JOHN THOMPSON: Tesla is 'on the verge of bankruptcy' - <AUTHOR> http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-on-verge-of-bankruptcy-hedge-funder-says-2018-3 <comment><USER2> Someone with vested interest in TESLA share price dropping is hardly a reputable source. TESLA may or may not be on the verge of bankruptcy but this is obviously a play to affect the share price in favour of the guy making the statement.</comment>


Libertarianism = Feudalism? - <AUTHOR> http://www.nextnewdeal.net/rortybomb/we-already-tried-libertarianism-it-was-called-feudalism <comment><USER2> I wish I had written this piece, it's been something I want to say every time somebody says they are in favor of small government or no government.

> How about Rand Paul, one of the leading advocates for libertarianism, > explaining why he wouldn't vote for the Civil Rights Act: "I abhor racism. I > think it's a bad business decision to exclude anybody from your restaurant — > but, at the same time, I do believe in private ownership."

The fundamental failure of liberterian logic comes if we imagine a world with no (or a weak) state to impose rules on your restaurant. Do you really think that the power vacuum will stay empty? Of course not, even the most shallow perusal of history shows that somebody will have the motivation and power to exert control over people and property. In short, there will be somebody else who wants a piece of your shop and you better give it to them or be prepared to fight them.

<comment><USER3> Even libertarians agree that property rights should be protected from violent theft or coercion. The problem isn't that somebody else wants a piece of your shop, it's that, most people have already given away a piece of their shop. People are social creatures, most of us have a tendency to follow a leader. So, even without the threat of violence, simply through normal social means, powerful groups and organisations emerge. They need to be kept in line by the state, otherwise they threaten the state's ability to keep the peace. Once an organisation becomes more powerful than the state, it is the de facto state. At which point, the experiment in libertarianism is over.

The Civil Rights Act is a great example of this. Both sides were organised. So, the issue of whether or not a particular individual was allowed into a particular restaurant stopped being a matter of negotiation between business owner and customer, and was instead a small part of a massive conflict between large groups of people. These little conflicts could not be resolved by bargaining because the agents involved were not pricing the costs of their actions according to the rational behaviour of a selfish individual. Instead, the individuals were highly valuing the well being of their group, promoting their group's values even to the point of becoming engaged in violence and endangering themselves.

If the state had not acted, and had simply attempted to keep the peace, what would have happened? Most likely a lot of violence would have broken out, much of it beyond the capacity of the state to control. What is the libertarian way of dealing with a civil war? I can't imagine.

I think really what is needed isn't smaller government, but better incentives and competition within government structure. Imagine if the people got to vote on the budget. Maybe not on how much taxes were collected, but on where the money went. Imagine if there were many smaller government departments that had semi overlapping functions, or functions of oversight over other departments. Imagine if setting up a government department was something anyone could do, like running for political office, and all you had to do was get some money voted your way during the budget vote. That way we would have a kind of free business like structure with regards the implementation of public policy, but we could still have policies that regulated and shaped the nation.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I think its more accurate to say Libertarianism → Feudalism than Libertarianism = Feudalism.

Feudalism is the _consequence_ of having civil society reduced solely to property rights.</comment>


Ask HN: What is your opinion on the pebble/fitbit rumors? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> I'm a backer, and I don't care as long as they ship the promised product. And if Fitbit acquisition is going to help Pebble continue developing THEIR technology but under Fitbit name that's ok for me.

I would be upset if Pebble's products get phased out the market because no other smartwatch offers what they do.

<comment><AUTHOR> I just ordered my pebble last week from amazon.com and am expecting it today. I'm worried about say connection issues and support in the event of a faulty product being shipped from the factory. Would Fitbit be legally obligated to honor pebble's warranties in the event of a takeover?</comment></comment>


Microsoft Offers to Add Rival Browsers to Settle Case - <AUTHOR> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aP9v4IR_THIc <comment><USER2> Maybe it's just me, but I've never actually believed that Microsoft bundling a browser (that they made, of course) is monopolistic. It seems like Microsoft is pushing a value-add with their products. Of course, it serves their agenda, but everything every company does serves their agenda -- that's why they're companies. I don't see the difference between Microsoft bundling IE with Windows and Apple offering a free iPod with new Macs during "Back to School." And yet, no one ever suggests that maybe Apple should be offering a choice between a free iPod and a free Zune.

Not only that, but I'm also troubled by the inclusion of other browsers. Why should Firefox get the free publicity? Because they're popular? Well that seems to be the same argument against IE. Personally, my favorite Windows browser is Opera, but how much do you want to bet that that certainly won't be on their list.

<comment><USER3> _Maybe it's just me, but I've never actually believed that Microsoft bundling a browser (that they made, of course) is monopolistic._

You are right. Bundling the browser did not make Microsoft monopolistic. What the court did find was that Microsoft had a monopoly on the OS market and then used that monopoly to restrain competition in other areas, such as web browsers. That is where MS got in trouble.

<comment><USER4> You are exactly correct and very few people understand this.

<comment><USER5> I think a lot of people understand it, but they still think that the court ruling is wrong.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> This is getting ridiculous. Is it that hard to download a different browser if you want another? My parents are happy with IE and Microsoft products, why should they be forced to make a browser decision if there's a default one ready? Furthermore, who is to blame when Firefox/Opera/whatever crashes? Microsoft?

<comment><USER4> See micks56 brief explanation above. You're comment is made without knowing or understanding the history behind this decision, one which originated here in the US in the late 1990s and has put Microsoft under Federal oversight even today.</comment></comment>


Thanks, HN: You helped discover a disease and save lives - <AUTHOR> http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2014/07/21/140721fa_fact_mnookin?currentPage=all (There's a shout-out to HN in the article.)
Two years ago, HN was the first to pick up on a post I wrote about my son's preliminary diagnosis via experimental exome sequencing:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4038113
Two years ago, he was the only known NGLY1 deficient patient in the world.
By spreading the story, we've found 16 cases worldwide.
We've organized.
We've found preliminary treatments.
Clinical trials are in the pipeline.
In some cases, we've saved the lives of previously undiagnosed patients.
And, these children's cells are turning into gold mines for the basic science of glycobiology.
From the bottom of my heart and on behalf of the entire small but optimistic NGLY1 community,
Thank you. <comment><AUTHOR> (There's a shout-out to HN in the article.)

Two years ago, HN was the first to pick up on a post I wrote about my son's preliminary diagnosis via experimental exome sequencing:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4038113](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4038113)

Two years ago, he was the only known NGLY1 deficient patient in the world.

By spreading the story, we've found 16 cases worldwide.

We've organized.

We've found preliminary treatments.

Clinical trials are in the pipeline.

In some cases, we've saved the lives of previously undiagnosed patients.

And, these children's cells are turning into gold mines for the basic science of glycobiology.

From the bottom of my heart and on behalf of the entire small but optimistic NGLY1 community,

Thank you.

<comment><USER2> This is a really heartening story both because it's objectively amazing and, to me, for personal reasons. My wife suffers from an unknown congenital myopathy. She, and by extension I, are actually VERY fortunate. It's a very mild expression of that class of disease, so it's not a death sentence, but it's a life sentence. She can walk unaided and climb stairs (slowly, with effort), but she'll never run, among other things. She has very weak muscles in her extremities, a very high resting heartrate, breathing problems, and she basically can't gain muscle mass.

She has been working with doctors on both coasts to try to nail down a diagnosis, so that we can think about having children (we need to know what, exactly, to screen for). So far, we have had many promising diagnoses, all of which have been negative. We might be looking at a new disease, and the information in the article about genetic sequencing for new diseases lines up with what her doctor at the NIH has been working on (they just recently collected genetic material from her close relatives). Thank you for sharing a success story on the new disease front, and thank you for your work to turn your personal tragedy into a force for good in the world. You're the best kind of people.

<comment><AUTHOR> I wish you and your wife much luck.

If the docs at NIH come back with a pile of variants of unknown clinical significance, get in touch with me.

I'll help you find patient #2.

<comment><USER3> "I'll help you find patient #2."

Awesome. I would give a million upvotes if I could. Your dedication to helping others is worthy of deep respect. :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> _Two over-the-counter supplements seemed to be helping, as well. The first was a highly concentrated cocoa extract. "It sounds like a scam, except there's research showing that cocoa actually improves cells' energy production," Matt told me. The second was N-acetylcysteine, or NAC, an amino acid that helps produce a naturally occurring antioxidant._

At the time of the original post, I asked a question. A PHD biologist kindly wrote me via email and answered some of my questions. I have a form of Cystic Fibrosis, as does my oldest son. It is a different homozygous recessive disorder. The biologist confirmed some of my inferences about how cell biology works and that this disorder likely had some things in common with CF. NAC is something known to also help CF patients. It makes me wonder what other treatments are being used and if the doctors have compared it at all to CF.

<comment><AUTHOR> CF has popped up more than once when looking at treatments for NGLY1.

In fact, the first ever treatment we tested in the lab was a read-through compound often used to treat some forms of CF: gentamycin.

It didn't work for Bertrand, but it may still work for other NGLY1 patients.

Phenotypically, there are some overlaps with NGLY1 and CF, so there may be commonalities in the underlying mechanisms of harm.

I'll ask the NGLY1 researchers what they think about a CF-NGLY1 link.

<comment><USER5> I don't know if there's still an active cell line in the lab, but have they tested 1-deoxynojirimycin, or nojirimycin? Although they're glycosidase inhibitors, since this is a lysosomal storage disease, IIRC one copy of the NGLY gene is dead because of a nonsense mutation but the other has an uncharacterized, non-catalytic mutation. This one might be rescuable through a "chemical chaperoning" effect, ironically the proper treatment then is an _inhibitor_ to the enzyme you're trying to save.

Relevant research on a (beta-) glycosidase (but presumably the active site structure and thus the inhibitory mechanism of nojirimycin should be similar):

[http://www.pnas.org/content/99/24/15428.short](http://www.pnas.org/content/99/24/15428.short)

Also I had a short discussion with Dr. Freeze about his results showing that flooding with mannose (not therapeutically viable) improves activity, mannose is a weak NGLY1 inhibitor.

Also Mz: I was the biologist that responded to your query!

<comment><USER5> Matt: I'm on temporary hiatus from science work and have a lot of flexible free time, and am located in San Diego, where I know some of the work has been done. If there's a lab that has access to relevant cell lines, I'm willing to do a bit of work here and there on a volunteer basis to try and explore a therapeutic strategy, have some ideas to quickly ascertain if the chemical chaperone route is wise or not, especially if they have a working assay going.

Contact info is in my profile.

<comment><AUTHOR> Sanford Burnham is in San Diego and is _the_ leading lab for NGLY1. All of the cell lines for all of the patients are there. Dr. Freeze has a variety of assays related to NGLY1 available.

We'll get you access ASAP.

I'll be in touch shortly.

Thank you!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> > Patient-advocacy groups have been around for decades, but it's extremely > unusual for one or two families to single-handedly direct an international > research agenda. It helps that both the Mights and the Wilseys have family > money. (Matt Might's father is the president and C.E.O. of Cable One, the > cable-television division of the former Washington Post Company.)

It's a really sad fact that economic inequality has a particularly dire effect on limiting access to quality healthcare and specialists for patients with rare diseases, no matter the severity.

The diagnosis difficulties the Mights went through with their son are made much worse for parents who can't pay, even for much more common rare diseases.

Hopefully someday our civilization can advance to the point where economic means matter much less than they do now for healthcare, where quality of life and opportunity to thrive is respected equally for every human, regardless of family money, or who gets the right to publish.

</comment><comment><USER7> Regardless if we can or can't manipulate our DNA with approaches such as gene therapy, we first must get therapeutics to patients with rare and orphan conditions in an adequate amount of time.

Many patients wait on the the hurdles set in place by the FDA who think they are protecting patients safety. However, with a quickly progressing illness and no treatment, often the patient will die without the drug that is being withheld.

The YouTube Video Shows Dr. Bill Gahl of the NIH Undiagnosed Diseases Program speaking at a TED event.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMMBmc_pQVA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMMBmc_pQVA)

<comment><AUTHOR> We're up against this right now for NGLY1.

There's a compound in trials right now that has shown tremendous promise in my son's cells in the lab and in the cells of other NGLY1 patients.

But, we can't get permission to give it to him, and setting up a clinical trial for NGLY1 keeps getting ever-more delayed because of concern over the FDA.

Meanwhile, our children suffer.

I'm very worried that some are going to die before this clinical trial gets underway.

(Incidentally, Bertrand and I got to meet Bill Gahl while admitted at the NIH for a week-long research protocol that will systematically study all known NGLY1 patients.)

<comment><USER8> > But, we can't get permission to give it to him

Have you considered making it yourself without permission?

Suppose for a moment that there exists a sequence of tests that you feel would adequately prove the safety or efficacy of a homebrew solution. Obviously, at least some sequence of tests must exist that seems pretty okay since the clinical trials have somewhat trustworthy results.

The actual cost of enzyme production (actually, I haven't studied the solution that would be going through clinical trails in detail) can be much lower than the $X billion that Big Pharma claims. For example, $50k can get you a basic antibody garage biology operation going, without cutting corners absolutely everywhere. I know a handful of people with equipment and expertise eager to prove this.

After all, your original mission wasn't "fighting regulatory hurdles". Successful FDA clinical trials are nice, but not if everyone dies while busy waiting to raise $100M to resubmit FDA forms.

edit: Looks like you found a place to buy a batch for $250? Be safe.

<comment><AUTHOR> Of course we've considered it.

It's a murky moral calculus.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Does anyone know if a website already exists that would help people with such rare genetic condition find each other? Not everyone is able to capitalize on being a popular blogger and it could help those people find help and support. This could also serve other kind of patients in dire situations such as: [https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-brew/montreal- cancer-p...](https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-brew/montreal-cancer- patient-rallies-against-limited-number-minority-173801245.html)

<comment><AUTHOR> There is no such web site.

I've advised another family on how to repeat our success, and they managed to find a second patient by setting up a website for their child. Both kids had de novo mutations in KDM1A and could be mistaken for brothers. So, sequencing + social media has already discovered a second disease.

After the success with Bertrand and NGLY1, the NIH reached out to me to see if there was a way that they could integrate social media into their Undiagnosed Disease Program.

Unfortunately, the NIH can't (or won't) set up anything right now.

There's an urgent need for this too: genome sequencing is going to unearth the raw data necessary to discover thousands of new genetic disorders like NGLY1 deficiency over the next decade.

But, if that data stays isolated, those discoveries just won't happen.

Kids won't get diagnosed.

If only there were a site full of technically minded entrepreneurs that we could share this opportunity with...

<comment><USER10> Hi Matt, I've been inspired to start setting up something myself. Long story why, but in short I've got kids of my own around Bertrand's age (also, my own son is named after famous scientist and thinker). They were born healthy, and can't imagine going through what you all have.

Also, pre-software development, I did grad school in public health (lots of epi and biostat in a dept of inhl health) and briefly worked in health research. So I may be in a good position to help out.

I'm in the process of setting up something using Flask right now and will soon (next few hours) open source it on Github and open it up for contributions. I can't absolutely guarantee that I'll be able to maintain it long-term, but I can certainly get a forum, site, and member registry database up and going and open sourced. Hopefully in such a way that it could be managed by a non- programmers (I realize you have such skills but you obviously have your plate full).

Perhaps eventually it could bloom into a full registry of genetic data, pending resolution of privacy issues (maybe using something like dnasubway).

I'd really love to team with an established designer(s) on this. I can hack up a UI, but would be best to team with a designer(s). I'd also love to team up with other devs who are interested.

Would sociallyrare.org be an ok name for a social media hub for rare diseases? I went ahead and registered that name, but if you have any other suggestions/requests I'd love to hear them. Not sure if Socially Rare has the right ring to it.

<comment><USER10> Matt, a quick follow-up question: I just found [https://www.rareconnect.org](https://www.rareconnect.org), which is very close to what I had in mind and had started building. Are you familiar with this site? Are people not able to connect using this site?

And many thanks to eigenrick and tgokh for your offer to help. If it turns out that somehow rareconnect.org is inactive or not functioning well, I'll definitely ping you once I get the site on Github.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I suffer from a condition called visual snow.

I realized about ten years ago that what I was expering wasn't normal. The condition was completly unknown at the time and I got multiple MRI's, my eyes and nervous system checked out from every angle and there was nothing abnormal.

Talking with many people I know it turned out that this condition is surprisingly pretty common, though in a mild form. People told me they saw some form of constant noise too but dismissed it as normal.

Your article got me to check the condition out again and it turns out there is new research from May identifing something wrong with the brain of people under the condition.

It's nothing life threatening like you're story, but still it's something you have to learn to live with it's there 24/7 even when you close your eyes and can be imparing at night.

[http://www.eyeonvision.org/news/107-visual-snow-research- stu...](http://www.eyeonvision.org/news/107-visual-snow-research-study.html)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_snow](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_snow)

Sadly I'm not in the US and there don't seem to be any research studies in Germany. Therefore I want to shout out if anyone on HN suffers from this condition, maybe hasn't even realized it because it manifests in mild form. You can all help the understanding of the condition.

<comment><USER12> Oddly, I think I have this. I've tried to explain the vague faint multi-colour noise that overlays my vision that is especially noticeable at night to e.g. my parents before, and they didn't get it. I've always assumed it's normal and that I just failed to explain sufficiently.

Reading the wiki article: > In addition to visual snow, many sufferers have other types of visual disturbances such as starbursts, increased afterimages, floaters, trails, and many others.[9]

eh maybe; I have no frame of reference

>Non-visual symptoms such as tinnitus, depersonalization-derealization, fatigue, speech difficulties and cognitive dysfunction (brain fog) are frequently encountered.[citation needed] Secondary psychiatric sequelae such as anxiety, panic attacks or depression may develop and necessitate appropriate treatment.[citation needed]

Tinnitus: Yes, sometimes it flares up a bit for about half an hour before going away again. There's a background level of ringing in an even slightly quiet environment, but I'm not sure if it's just the blood rushing through my ears.

I also like listening to music at a loud volume (I find it hard to enjoy music otherwise.)

Depersonalization-derealization: Not sure. See 'depression' below.

Fatigue: Yes, which I've associated with my depression

Speech difficulties: I stutter and find it hard to remember names, but if I'm presenting something you would never realize either of these.

Cognitive dysfunction: Quite possibly. If I'm in a more depressed mood, I can't think.

Anxiety/panic attacks/depression: I was diagnosed with clinical depression a couple of years ago, when it got so bad I stopped caring about anything and went to a doctor.

Headaches/migraines: It varies wildly, but I do get headaches quite badly on occasion. I put this down more to stress & depression.

<comment><USER4> _Tinnitus: Yes, sometimes it flares up a bit for about half an hour before going away again. There 's a background level of ringing in an even slightly quiet environment, but I'm not sure if it's just the blood rushing through my ears._

My oldest son has a history of tinnitus. He has benefited from generally improving his health. Our best understanding is that addressing magnesium deficiency was specifically helpful with this issue. He suffers less than he used to.

I still develop noise sensitivity any time I am magnesium deficient. So when everything starts being too loud for me, we make sure to up my consumption of magnesium-rich foods.

 _I was diagnosed with clinical depression a couple of years ago_

I have seen some articles/studies that link depression to brain chemistry and suggest it can be helped with avoiding certain oils/getting certain oils. My medical condition significantly impacts how my body processes oils/fats and my experience is consistent with the research I have seen. I am very picky about what oils I consume. I can get suddenly and dramatically whacked out by consuming an oil my body can't process.

Some other things that have helped with brain issues in my family: Coconut oil, high cholesterol meals (such as eggs, bacon, butter), and B vitamin supplements.

Also, the lymphatic system for the brain is apparently separate from that of the rest of the body. In the rest of the body, lymph gets moved faster when you walk but for the brain it is mostly processed during sleep. So if you have sleep issues of any kind, working on resolving those may help your brain function better because good quality sleep helps the brain take out the garbage, so to speak.

My migraine-like headaches are resolving but I don't have any quick suggestions related to that.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Matt's struggle to find the cause and cure of his son's disease reminded me of a post I read sometime ago:

[http://lesswrong.com/lw/gvi/metamed_evidencebased_healthcare...](http://lesswrong.com/lw/gvi/metamed_evidencebased_healthcare/)

While probably not applicable in this case, I think many people struck with rare/weird diseases could find this service useful. MetaMed is basically a group of people who are really good at maths, know the newest medical technologies and procedures, and are willing to dig through and evaluate tons of medical papers and publications.

I hope that this will help someone. I'm also interested if anyone on HN used this service and could tell how it worked out in their case.

</comment><comment><USER14> There are no words for this; an incredible story. My thoughts and prayers are with Bertrand and others with NGLY1 deficiency.

It seems that while Professor and Christina Might were making a herculean effort to discover and fight NGLY1 deficiency, Professor Might was granted tenure (!) at the University of Utah and is considered a rising star ([http://admin.utah.edu/academic_affairs_posts/rising-stars- at...](http://admin.utah.edu/academic_affairs_posts/rising-stars-at-the-u-2)). I doubt anyone makes excuses for late homework in his class.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the kind words and the nod, but I can assure you that there's still no shortages of excuses for late homework.

Since this is HN, I'll share one thing that works: force your students to use git (or some version control) for assignments.

Having an auditable history of effort makes it hard to lie.

Except when it turns "the dog ate my homework" into "git rebase ate my homework."

<comment><USER15> There's still the reflog for that excuse (e.g. .git/logs/refs/heads/master).

<comment><USER16> Only sometimes. There are several actions that may purge items from and/or completely clear the reflog.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Wow, I remember this story. I asked a question about your sons development if the therapy went well and you responded, and I find myself pondering what the outcome is every now and then. Just wanted to say all the best and keep us updated.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the kind words and your original comments!

I'll certainly post another update when we reach the next critical milestone in this disorder.

We're making rapid progress in understanding these kids at a cellular level.

I'm very hopeful.

I'm also hopeful that the (apparently advantageous) immunological aspects of NGLY1 deficiency will have broader benefit to mankind.

<comment><USER18> I'm glad someone else is being helped by DNA sequencing. It's such a promising new field, and why I do it

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Can someone knowledgable explain why we can't manipulate viruses to patch our genome? I don't know why that doesn't work, I just know enough to realize it would be an enormously useful thing.

<comment><USER20> While there are a lot of nuances to this I won't get into, the simple answer is that it's hard to control where the virus inserts into the genome (imagine inserting a random page in the middle of a recipe book).

It's also hard to get the virus to target the cells you need to reach, as they often only target one specific cell type.

<comment><USER21> we need more test subjects...

if it's legal to terminate unborn fetuses, shouldn't it be legal to experiment on them?

<comment><USER22> Animals are close enough to humans that we can experiment on them to perfect it then move to human trials.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_research](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_research)

Experimenting on otherwise terminated fetuses would be unquestionably unethical because we'd have to let them age a little, which means their brain would develop, they would gain consciousness and would be likely be very messed up, then have to be "put down". That idea probably won't get much support...

We can and do use monkeys, "Planet of the Apes" is based on this. Attempting to cure alzheimers created smart monkeys, then a bunch of unknown stuff happened and they took over the world.

<comment><USER23> Could we possibly grow headless humans that are kept alive on life support or something to make up for the missing brain?

<comment><USER22> There has been talks of headless chickens for use as food before.

[http://www.wired.com/2012/02/headless-chicken- solution/](http://www.wired.com/2012/02/headless-chicken-solution/)

[http://we-make-money-not-art.com/archives/2012/02/farming-th...](http://we- make-money-not-art.com/archives/2012/02/farming-the-unconscious.php)

I'm not going to say impossible, but we just don't need them at this point. Plus since a lot of these genetic experiments would be ultimately affecting something in the brain, it might be near pointless. I don't know, I just don't see it being plausible or necessary or allowed anytime soon.

If we can grow headless bodies, we can just use the organs for transplants, so... that'd be much easier.

I don't know, that's kind of a strange question that I don't feel comfortable even considering. Not many scientists would be comfortable experimenting on headless humans either.

Understanding DNA/RNA and simulating it with computers while using animals to verify the algorithms might be more effective.

Basically science is: predict what will happen, try everything, see what happens, study the results, don't blow yourself up or kill people. Mice and other animals are debatable to harm if necessary, greater good I suppose.

<comment><USER23> Organ transplants would be the biggest benefit, possibly even full head/brain transplants which would cure almost all conditions. Once we have the technology to reconnect nerves at least.

Yes you can't test what happens to brain tissue ethically, but you can test on every other organ and tissue which would be a huge advantage.

<comment><USER22> A brain transplant would require some technology that won't be available for a very long time.

You would need to connect the two brains and somehow move or copy all of the data to the new brain, then gradually shutdown the old brain.

We're no where close to that, but it will be a very interesting time once that happens. It will be yet another major step in our evolution.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Question for Matt (or anyone who knows):

What's the best or most cost-effective way to get an entire family sequenced? My younger brother has a rare disorder (diagnosed as autism and twelve other things that mean "we're not sure"), I don't have it, and we've wanted to get everyone sequenced for some time. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

<comment><AUTHOR> You may want to check out LineaGen:

[http://www.lineagen.com/](http://www.lineagen.com/)

It's cheaper than sequencing, and more importantly, they actually know what to do with the data once they have it.

Getting your sequencing data is becoming cheaper and cheaper.

Analyzing it is not.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> What a success story!

I was surprised to see that the second child wasn't sequenced earlier. A family of four study or even a study that includes grandparents is significantly more powerful then a trio study.

Even if only one individual displays the phenotypes it allows more variants to be eliminated and potentially allows an increased ability to distinguish sequencing errors from rare variants and new mutations. It also lets you more precisely identify recombination sites:

[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3037280/figure/F...](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3037280/figure/F2/)

</comment><comment><USER26> Touching story. A reminder that for all the gadgets we get, the internet is really about connecting and helping people.

</comment><comment><USER27> Amazing how gene sequencing has really started to pay off. A member of my family was recently diagnosed with two mutations of the MTHFR gene. This comes after years of trying different horrible depression medications, thyroid drugs, and hormone pills that often made things worse.

While some of the treatments are still guesses, it's so much better to finally be treating the root cause and not just guessing at how to suppress symptoms.

</comment><comment><USER28> This snippet is the most interesting:

> perhaps Bertrand was able to avoid infections because viruses got stuck > after attaching themselves to his defective glycoproteins. Rosenzweig is > quick to emphasize that until he can test other NGLY1 patients he won't know > if his hypothesis warrants further exploration. But if it bears out, he > says, it could point to a way to treat acute infections ranging from > influenza to Ebola hemorrhagic fever.

</comment><comment><USER29> all the best to the families. but this makes me furious at how research is done.

everyone pays high tuition and dont think about it. just being glad their families can afford. but you (everyone here probably) is fostering this. expensive pedigree universities are the ones that create such toxic environment for open research.

very similar to this was already documented in the "Lorenzo's oil" book/film. lets hope this time we learn the lesson. (yeah, high hopes of anyone here not favoring a Stanford student but anyway ...i have no idea how even start to break this vicious circle that promote inefficient research in that way... maybe killing patents will be the light?)

<comment><USER30> I see two separate phenomena.

The article describes researchers being rewarded for their publications, and therefore not sharing data with their competitors, who could create a publication with that data which the researcher who shared the data would get no credit for.

You are describing people favoring graduates from top universities, which therefore charge higher tuition since their degrees are more valuable.

I can't see any relationship between these two things, maybe you can clarify.

<comment><USER29> the top universities are top universities because of what? the standard metric is number of published papers.

So a university to on the top have to play by those rules. and we keeping regarding them as the top are by consequence valuing those rules.

the hypocrisy has to end somewhere. We can't keep up voting those articles that point the problems with academic publishing while giving priority to hire from the institutions that maintain that status quo.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Original article on Bertrand & how Matt Might investigated the cause of Bertrand's illness

[http://matt.might.net/articles/my-sons- killer/](http://matt.might.net/articles/my-sons-killer/)

</comment><comment><USER32> The actual title of the article is _One of a kind_.

</comment><comment><USER33> Such an inspiring story.

</comment><comment><USER34> Amazing story!

</comment><comment><USER35> TOO MANY ONIONS..... Them dam feels

</comment><comment><USER36> Wish there was a cliffnotes version of this long-winded article. Best of luck to the kid though.</comment>