Who Was Ramanujan? - <AUTHOR> https://backchannel.com/who-was-ramanujan-83b4d5b05665?source=linkShare-1b4595cbd64d-1461823459 <comment><USER2> A very nice article.

Personally I'm not bothered by the "self-promotion" others perceive in Wolfram's posts. The criticism in the comments here are all very repetitive and tiresome. I presume many read anything written by Wolfram with the hope of finding something they can point out as self-promotion ;)

<comment><USER3> Correct, and it's time for HN to let go of it. Think of it as a test for this community: can we focus on what's interesting in what the man says and resist being trolled by the rest.

[https://hn.algolia.com/?query=wolfram%20derangement%20syndro...](https://hn.algolia.com/?query=wolfram%20derangement%20syndrome&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=comment)

<comment><USER4> Is there a meta-syndrome, wherein all submissions of Stephen Wolfram content end up discussing how unfortunate it is we're all preoccupied discussing his self promotion?

<comment><USER3> That's a secondary infection.

<comment><USER5> Maybe more like an autoimmune / allergic response?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I was lucky enough to see The Man Who Knew Infinity this past weekend at the San Francisco International Film Festival. And I'd just like to say that it is a truly beautiful film, and I encourage everyone to go see it.

After the showing, there was a panel discussion with the director, composer, producer, two actors (Stephen Fry!), and three consulting mathematicians who helped the production. One of the topics that came up was the recent (finally!) interest in Hollywood for making movies about technical people. Since the dawn of cinema, we've made movies about artists, writers, and poets. But it is only recently that we've started making movies about scientists (Stephen Hawking) and mathematicians (Alan Turing).

In my opinion, this movie puts both _The Theory of Everything_ and _The Imitation Game_ to shame. It is much more moving and beautiful than both, and it doesn't fall into the either the trap of overly simplifying the math, nor of overly dramatizing his life. If you have any interest in math, science, or computer science (much of which is underpinned by his work in number theory), I highly encourage you to go see this film.

<comment><USER7> We have been making films about technical people for a while. _A Beautiful Mind_ comes to mind first I am sure I can find some more.

Takedown, and Pirates of Silicon Valley are some others.

Funny as I search for more about actual people, a lot of fictional movies were created around the time the dot com bubble burst.

<comment><USER6> _A Beautiful Mind_ isn't as long ago as you think: less than 15 years. In the space of cinema (which was producing films about famous artists at least as early as the '30s) that's not very long. _Takedown_ and _Pirates of Silicon Valley_ are also a bit different: hacking has been part of "pop culture" since the mid 90s at least, and _Pirates_ is a documentary anyway.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I am very proud that I am sharing the same native place [Erode]

I happened to read about his life story before quite sometime. It was full of wonders. During his life-period, He used to go to some calm place(temple) with few notebooks and after few minutes having his eyes closed, would start to write solving problems in his notebooks. Those periods the opportunities for exploring was very difficult. Since, the people were very conservative to accept him for being unique(different from others). Because, he was very genius in mathematics unlike other subjects. The society where he belongs did not acknowledge( _unable to understand his works_ ) him for what he was deserved. He could not get even the normal job to survive. His family became upset for his incomplete qualification(in terms of degree). So, he absconded from his place. In fact he tried to commit suicide too. Later period fortunately few people came to understand the value of his efforts few bits. With help of few elite members in society, he put the letter to Mr Hardy which was the turning point for all mathematician's life which gave full of challenges to understand his work. He was moved to UK. There his health was not supportive, then he died very early.

P.S: If he was given _full freedom to function himself_ in earlier times, The maths society would have gotten more and more theorems and evolution would have been quite speedy.

 _Whatta truly inspiring life he lived._

[Erode] ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erode](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erode))

</comment><comment><USER9> The (sadly all too predictable) comments about Wolfram's self-promotion and product placement give me an idea.

Someone should create a blog called "Wolfram minus Wolfram" (in the vein of the excellent "Garfield minus Garfield") which exists solely to republish Wolfram's (often very interesting) writings, minus the references to his own products and his own past achievements. I think it would be popular.

<comment><USER10> Republishing? I suspect you would immediately find yourself in boiling water with Wolfram's lawyers. See this nice story: [http://bactra.org/reviews/wolfram/](http://bactra.org/reviews/wolfram/)

<comment><USER11> Subtitled _A Rare Blend of Monster Raving Egomania and Utter Batshit Insanity_

<comment><USER12> Before opening the link I thought you were joking.

Surprisingly you weren't.

That's actually the subtitle.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Mixed feelings about this article:

1\. A fine easy read about Ramanujan and Hardy. It was well-summarized and nicely written, with excellent pictures that I had not seen before.

2\. A disgusting vein of self-promotion runs throughout the article. Much has been said about Stephan Wolfram's occasionally self-centered behavior, and many of his writings have a self-aggrandizing tone to them. Thus, I was pleasantly surprised to find the piece start out with little self-reference by the author, until:

> The other, slightly more famous, track — less austere and less > mathematically oriented — was Eton and Oxford, which happens to be where I > went.

How is that relevant in an article titled _Who was Ramanujan?_ It got worse a few paragraphs later, as Wolfram began discussing numeric approximations, and engaging in what was effectively product placement for WolframAlpha and Mathematica. There I was, trying to read about Ramanujan, and Wolfram kept interjecting with comments about his computation engine and his implementations of Ramanujan's formulae.

Toward the end of the article, after the biography of Ramanujan was complete and Wolfram turned to discussing expansions of Ramanujan's results, such topics were fair game. "What if Ramanujan had had Mathematica?" is a valid question. Discussing cellular automata and Wolfram's principle of computational equivalence, etc., etc. was fine at that point, since these are valid expansions to the topic at hand.

Nonetheless, the blatant product placement and continuous breaking of the flow of the text to push some function implemented in WolframAlpha on the reader was extraordinarily annoying, and, frankly, deeply disappointing. If Wolfram sets out to write _the unlikely tale of a mysterious letter, and its place in the history of mathematics_ , as advertised by the subtitle, then I would have hoped that he could leave his egregious self-advertising to the end of the article -- or better yet -- to a separate one altogether.

<comment><USER13> _"...Eton and Oxford, which happens to be where I went"_

I prefer to be charitable and assume that he wrote this for the purposes of disclosure and to qualify his knowledge of those institutions. I don't think he was drawing a comparison between himself and Ramanujan.

Yes - Wolfram has a tendency for self-promotion, and this can be a bit tiresome. But, like others who have commented here, I find the seemingly obligatory condemnation of him to be tiresome too. The difference between Wolfram and his detractors on HN is that Wolfram (as well as clearly being very smart) invariably has something interesting to say.

<comment><USER14> Agree. I read the article from another source, and came to HN expecting that very criticism. Its so tiresome. They didn't even consider that this article by Wolfram took a rare effort to go into lot of Math of Ramanujan. And the core insight of experimental (Ramanujan style) Math vs formal proof oriented (Hardy style) Math and its parallels i.e. the former approach is definitely enabled by Wolfram Mathematica, is very convincing.

And to miss all that, and just harp on _self promotion_ by Wolfram is disingenuous or a very stereotypical comment. And its the top HN comment.

<comment><USER15> Yes I read it at first, and enjoyed the article in full before seeing these comments too. Reading through some of the points in the negative, I am not sure I get it. He remarks he went to a school mentioned in the article. So? And he uses Mathematica in the article to highlight some math points. Does anyone expect him to ignore the software and company he founded, and do manual calcs, or better yet, use an iPython notebook (which took the best of Mathematics - the notebook), so as to avoid any chance of 'Oh, he's self promoting again.' I like Mathematica, I enjoy Stephen Wolfram's articles, and I can easily overlook the points that are always mentioned. I look forward to the movie even more after having read Stephen Wolfram's article. OT: I was browsing a CNC manual written in Bahasa Indonesia just 2 days ago, when I saw Wolfram Carbide, and did a double take. Wolfram means tungsten in Indonesian!

<comment><USER16> The name Wolfram (for the metal) is of German origin, IIRC. Indonesia having been a Dutch colony probably got it from the Dutch language, if I might hazard a guess.

<comment><USER15> Thanks for the source. I was just using Mathematica and seeing the 'Wolfram' in the Indonesian text just popped for me. Having a Wolf as a PL mascot for Wolfram Language is pretty cool too!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> There are some nice videos on youtube explaining the 1+2+3+...=-1/12 equation.

For example: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcKRGpMiVTw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcKRGpMiVTw)

<comment><USER18> This is the best video on the topic I have seen.

Many other ones I have seen often revert to using properties that don't work for ill-behaving series, like rearranging terms.

<comment><USER19> I just discovered this guy's channel the other day - and now I'm completely addicted! Help!

<comment><USER20> Me too! Ive started learning math. It seems like math is taught as number crunching but is really the philosophy and study of computation and operations on objects. Higher level math seems fundamental to CS and all the other sciences. Im now on my journey to understand the syntax and basic ideas. Wikipedia is great. And this video series is amazing:

[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CMWFmjlB8v0](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CMWFmjlB8v0)

<comment><USER19> Thank you kindly - subscribed.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> One thing that really stood out to me was that Ramunajan got lost in the traditional system of Academia which persists even now. There could have been (and may still be) so much talent out there that may never get a chance.

I also really wish the letters were more legible. I think it would be interesting to read some of these older mathematics texts.

</comment><comment><USER22> Last year, I had a talk with Stephen Wolfram, he said that, for him, the most important secret helping him solve problems is "some version of confidence or arrogant". That make him never fear any difficulty, but this arrogant inevitably behave in some other aspects of his life, and affect people's impression of him.

Then, his writing style never bother me again.

<comment><USER23> Why doesn't that bother you? It reminds me a little of the giant middle finger that Bezos recently gave to his workers via his letter to shareholders, in which he effectively said that he knew the workplaces he fostered at Amazon were unhealthy, toxic, soul-crushing graveyards, but basically that he didn't plan on changing it and didn't give a shit if people didn't like it or even if it was demonstrably unhealthy for them.

Saying "I've become successful" (or in Wolfram's case, very marginally successful) "because of some arrogance" is not some redeeming, insightful virtue. In fact, in many ways the person is saying, "I took the lazy way of using my laurels and status to treat others badly and act entitled to my asshole tendencies."

Instead of working hard to succeed _with class_ , Wolfram, like so many other tedious and unremarkable people that pinch up some minor bit of fame for a while, is just excusing his own laziness.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> Plain and simple, Ramanujan was the Mozart of mathematics. Seemingly god-like insight into numbers that even he could not completely explain. There are excellent anecdotes about his life in the book Music of the Primes.

</comment><comment><USER25> 50% of the text is the fascinating story of Ramanujan. Unfortunately, the other 50% is a series of shameless product placements for the author's software and boasts about the author's personal and intellectual accomplishments. The story, the boasts, and the ads are all mixed together, so reading the thing all the way to the end was seriously painful.

<comment><USER26> True. Maybe, skimming through the article without bothering about the hyperlinks would be so much better.

He went to the extent of hyperlinking the words `Madras` and `Sanskrit` to their WolframAlfa search links :/

<comment><USER2> So you mean google employees should put bing links in their blog posts rather than google links?

<comment><USER27> They should not put any links to a damn search engine in such texts. If people want to Google "Sanskrit", I'm sure they will manage.

<comment><USER28> So according to your logic, link to this article should be removed and anyone wanting to find it should _manage_.

I also find it delightfully ironic that you used the term _to Google "Sanskrit"_. and not _to WolframAlpha "Sanskrit"_.

Hypocrisy is oozing out of your comment.

<comment><USER27> I was not very careful in phrasing my previous comment.

I was thinking of a situation where a Google employee puts links in the actual copy of an article not primarily about search engines. I find it more permissible in the case of WolframAlpha, because it calls itself a knowledge engine, and provides carefully curated content. Google is a more generic beast, and I just don't think it makes sense to litter a text with hyperlinks. If I see a link, I will presume that the author wants me to click it and read it. If it is very general "further reading", I prefer having these presented after the main material. A lot of preferences and assumptions on my part.

My gripe with OP is how it integrates the product into the text. I like hyperlinks, but I prefer separation of copy and generic resources.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> It's worth noting this was originally a blog post on Stephen Wolfram's personal blog, where you'd expect an author's voice to permeate the content (although that didn't stop people from complaining about his other blog entries). I personally appreciate authors dropping their own biographical details when they write about something else, it gives it a more personal voice. Plus, Mathematica is relevant. It's not as if he's doing product placement for Purina Puppy Chow, which is a great way to feed your growing puppy and give him all the nutrients he needs.

</comment><comment><USER30> Very nice write-up. As an Indian, I grew up hearing about stories of Ramanujan, but never understood what it is that he did, or how he did it. I think Wolfram is perfect person to show us behind the curtain. For example, I remember hearing that Ramanujan stated some theorems that people in the west are still trying to prove. I didn't know what to make of it. Wolfram nicely showed the iterative (and approximate) approaches Ramanujan took to achieve this.

</comment><comment><USER31> For personal reasons, I was pretty interested by one of the digressions: the origins of the phrase "mathematics… is a young man's game", and a discussion of whether it is still (or ever was) true (focusing on the age question, not the gender bias, of course).

</comment><comment><USER32> Nice read. Product placements didn't really bother me. I just skipped them.

</comment><comment><USER33> Towards the end, it reminded me of the book "Gödel, Escher, Bach".

</comment><comment><USER34> That handwriting tho woah!

</comment><comment><USER35> Amita? I thought everyone knew her.

</comment><comment><USER36> I haven't even begun to read the article and I'm fascinated already. Stephen Wolfram speaking of someone who is not called "Stephen Wolfram". Woooah!

Edit: Finished reading the article, and after blocking out all self- references, I must grudgingly admit I had a good time. This was a nice quick narrative, and I appreciated the insight about the exploratory style of Ramanujam's mathematics (rather than lemma-theorem-corollary style)

</comment><comment><USER37> This article is blatantly incorrect.

</comment><comment><USER38> Expel Brahmin From USA [https://petitions.whitehouse.gov//petition/expel- brahmin-usa](https://petitions.whitehouse.gov//petition/expel-brahmin-usa)</comment>


Bussed out: how America moves thousands of homeless people around the country - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/20/bussed-out-america-moves-homeless-people-country-study <comment><USER2> Since the article starts with someone in SF (although he's leaving), I want to proactively dispel the myth that it's common for homeless people to be dropped into SF by other cities because we have good weather and liberal govt.

It may happen sometimes, but a recent survey showed that over 70pct of the homeless people in SF previously had homes in SF [0]. So it's mostly a home grown problem.

[0]: [http://sfist.com/2016/02/11/71_of_sf_homeless_once_had_homes...](http://sfist.com/2016/02/11/71_of_sf_homeless_once_had_homes_in.php)

<comment><USER3> Just a little nit: while article says they lived in SF and !had homes! survey linked says they were just SF residents prior to becoming homeless (though it mentions that 49% of them were living in SF at least 10 years, but don't forget that ~65% of SF residents are renters).

Residency usually just based on any bill with city address within last 30 days.

I can easy imagine case when someone moved to SF with hope that things will work out in big city, spent savings on few months of rent and with nowhere else to go and no established income ended up on the streets. While it's a sad situation it fits that previous SF residency narrative and in the same time not exactly part of some native san franciscans ending up on streets due to yet another gentrification cycle everybody so keen to bring up whenever homeless origin is being mentioned.

<comment><USER4> There's an even bigger problem. There was no validation at all. It was based on self reporting which, in turn, was based on asking [ideally] random homeless individuals, and then extrapolating that outward. There is an incentive for individuals to lie here if they believe that 'native' homeless might be subject to preferential treatment, or if reporting 'native' homeless increases could result in more favorable incentives for the homeless. And given how big of news homelessness and home price issues are in San Francisco, I think this motivation is a major concern.

I am curious about the baselines here for other areas though. Even given the incentive to lie, the reported numbers given still seem quite high to me. The most liberal metric is living in the city for at least 10 years, which applied to just below 50% of the homeless. Even if we take the most conservative metric of 'migratory' patterns, with 30% of individuals having moved to San Francisco _after_ becoming homeless, that still seems very high. But I don't really have a baseline for comparison in other major cities and search is not turning up any particularly great sources.

<comment><USER5> Absolutely. Self reported data like this is nearly worthless in a serious discussion about policies and their consequences.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I lived in San Francisco from 2011 - 2016 then moved to Pittsburgh, PA for a job opportunity. This past August, I went back to SF for a team building activity and I was blown away by how many fewer homeless people there were on the streets (excluding Tenderloin).

When I lived in SF, there were blocks that I would place money on being a homeless person there, and it seemed like most of them were relocated. Tons of familiar streets in SOMA were at or near zero homeless people. The interesting part is that my co-workers, who never lived in SF, remarked about how many homeless people were still out in the streets. To them, there were tons of homeless people and to me there were hardly any. I was so shocked that I even called one of my friends who is from the Bay Area and asked him what was going on?

<comment><USER7> They seem to just be relocating to other parts of the city as formerly homeless-heavy areas like parts of SOMA and the mission "gentrify." I walk through the loin twice a day on my way to my office on market st near the post-apocalyptic parts of SOMA and see a higher concentration of homeless in those areas than I used to. Perhaps you're revisiting the parts they've left or my un-scientific observations are wrong.

<comment><USER8> They also seasonally relocate, heading south in the winter and spreading out in the summer. Seattle's transient homeless population is largely gone by mid- December

<comment><USER9> Well now it barely seems like we are talking about human people.

<comment><USER10> How would you prefer that sentence be written?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> this is the Nash Equilibrium type problem that exists with US federalism and extreme poverty. Cities just ship people around hoping to reduce their share of cost, while the homeless just become more physically sick or addicted, and mentally traumatized, so they become more costly to care for in aggregate over a lifetime. Everyone is worse off. It would be so much simpler, cheaper if society just got people back on their feet as quickly as possible with focused care & rapid re-housing.

<comment><USER12> _It would be so much simpler, cheaper if society just got people back on their feet as quickly as possible with focused care & rapid re-housing._

I think everyone can agree that it would greatly benefit society to get "people back on their feet".

But how? There's a virtually unlimited stream of drugs coming into this country. There are many people who have mental illness. In many places, The Rent Is Too Damn High.

IMO solving this problem is by no means "simple". How expensive is it to do "focused care"? Has it been tried, and what's its track record?

<comment><USER13> _There 's a virtually unlimited stream of drugs coming into this country. There are many people who have mental illness._

Anybody with a drug problem should be able to walk into a hospital, say "I'm addicted to X" and get into treatment immediately, free of charge.

Anybody with a mental illness should be able to walk into a hospital, say "I can't take care of myself because X keeps happening in my brain" and get into treatment immediately, free of charge.

If you've ever tried to help someone get clean or get mental health inpatient care in the U.S., you can completely understand how people end up on the streets who could otherwise be productive members of society.

<comment><USER14> > free of charge.

I think you should understand what this really means. Are you willing to pay 10, 15% extra of your income to sustain 10~25k a month bills for mentally ill people?

<comment><USER15> Yes

<comment><USER16> Same here. I would rather that the disproportionately rich pay for it, however.

<comment><USER17> You would rather someone else pay for your beliefs? The disproportionately rich already pay a disproportionate share of taxes. The top 1% earn 19% of the income but pay 35% of the taxes in the US. I'm not sure that's fair. Rich people also create the jobs: if they pay more, they have less incentive to invest more which means fewer businesses being funded and fewer jobs.

<comment><USER4> I generally agree with you here, but as an aside there is one nuance you have to consider. And that's taxation vs disposable income. Imagine somebody earns $50k and spends $30k on their living expenses and pays a 30% tax rate. They have $20k left after their basic living expenses, but $15k of that is eaten up by taxes. Looking at their disposable income, they're paying a ridiculous tax rate of 75%.

I think it's more reasonable to compare taxation on disposable income. In my opinion a fair tax would only tax disposable income anyhow. Of course that creates an incentive to have $0 disposable income but it's no different than the problem of corporations aiming to report $0 profit.

Progressive tax schemes aim to achieve this, but in a completely broken and inconsistent fashion. For instance somebody earning $100k in San Francisco is going to be spending a rather different percent of their income on basic living expenses than somebody living in Bodunk earning the same, and so applying the same scheme to both does not make sense. It'd be much easier to just make everything that qualifies as a 'basic living expense' fully deductible, and then you pay e.g. 15% on the rest.

<comment><USER18> There's more to it here - the wealthy generally are able to better play long games to further save more, better able to handle unexpected life events that could devastate the less prepared, and have better alignment with the government fighting/optimizing for their use cases.

There are a lot more reasons as to the exponential advantages the wealthy generally enjoy suggest that the wealthy should indeed get taxed more, but it's probably better suited for discussion elsewhere than HN.

<comment><USER4> Sure, but I think this starts getting into ideology. I think people should be taxed rates that, in a vacuum, can be considered fair. I pay 15% of what I can, you pay 15% of what you can is about as fair as you can get. The reason I'm not fond of going beyond this is because you start getting into very subjective territory.

For instance while I agree with all you've said, excepting your conclusion, I'm sure you'd also agree that lower income individuals would also be much more likely to end up as the direct beneficiaries of where lots of government money goes to such medicaid/medicare and various social programs. Since these lower income individuals are going to be disproportionately more likely to utilize the benefits of these government programs, would it then not make more sense for them to shoulder a greater percent of the costs to account for this? I _absolutely_ do not agree with this conclusion, but at the same time I also don't see any clear logical flaw in it.

So you can do an ideological tug of war, one way or the other, to no end on these issues. One ideology might have the wealthy give nearly all of their income away to help the rest of the population. The other end of ideology might have people give none away and rely entirely on market dynamics. I think a fixed and fair sum is one of the more reasonable ways to step outside of ideology and try to create a system that nobody really loves, but also nobody can create rational arguments suggesting is, in and of itself, unreasonably biased towards one group or another.

<comment><USER14> > but at the same time I also don't see any clear logical flaw in it.

Great example! And I agree. The example you give is one of the reasons I have with progressive taxation, by the definition of %. Someone with 1,000,000 income and someone with 30,000 paying the same rate, the richer pays a lot more than he will use from the state. So in effect, a flat-tax rate is most likely already progressive.

I am in favor of a flat tax-rate for all, without deductions or exceptions. And I would go a step further and make the contributions public or pseudo- public.

<comment><USER19> But what about the extremely poor?

<comment><USER14> Aid that comes equally from the rest out of the flat 15%.

Its a different system one where the top 90% each cheap in to help the distressed 10%, another one where the top 10 give to the top 20, the top 20 to the top 30, etc.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Phoenix AZ was running a program like this decades ago. They'd tell the homeless about the great weather and services in San Diego, and put them on the bus -- no arrangements at all on the receiving end. Then they started getting phone calls from SD city hall...

</comment><comment><USER21> IMO this is exactly what we ought to do. A big problem for the homeless is that they become poor in a place with no jobs for them, and then they get stuck. There are lots of places with shortages of the kind of labor they can offer, and making travel easier for them is a great thing to help fix that market failure.

<comment><USER22> With unemployment this low there are plenty of entry level jobs people can get into in every city in the country. I live in Seattle and I see people out begging to give people entry level/beginner jobs by the light rail stations and all around the city, but homelessness is still on the rise. Bussing them elsewhere doesn't help when they still don't have a home, a bathroom/shower, clean clothes, food, etc.

Bussing them out is just an idea done by the rich so they don't have to see the homeless any longer.

<comment><USER21> > With unemployment this low there are plenty of entry level jobs people can > get into in every city in the country. I live in Seattle and I see people > out begging to give people entry level/beginner jobs by the light rail > stations and all around the city, but homelessness is still on the rise.

If that were actually true, then there wouldn't be a homeless problem. The unemployment rate doesn't count these people. The unemployment rate only counts people who are 'actively looking' for a new job. People who aren't looking at all don't show up in the statistics.

> Bussing them elsewhere doesn't help when they still don't have a home, a > bathroom/shower, clean clothes, food, etc.

Let's be careful about the conjugation of that verb. The city is not bussing them anywhere. The city is offering them free bus tickets, if they believe they will be happier elsewhere. If they want to stay, they stay. If they want to leave, they leave.

> Bussing them out is just an idea done by the rich so they don't have to see > the homeless any longer.

It's really not. They're not being forced out. They're just being given free tickets _if they want them_.

<comment><USER23> > The unemployment rate only counts people who are 'actively looking' for a > new job. People who aren't looking at all don't show up in the statistics.

That's entirely incorrect. We track all of these layers in fact.

We have the labor force participation rate, which is available further separated out into groups, such as by age or race. We track the employment to population ratio.

We have the U3, U5, U6 unemployment statistics, which track labor based on various conditions, whether full-time, part-time, discouraged, etc.

We track how many people total are employed full-time or part-time. We know how many hours they're working.

We track multiple job holders.

We track how many people are not in the labor force.

We track the flow of labor in and out of the labor force.

And we track all of these statistics for different age groups, men & women, races, etc.

For one big example, the prime working age 25-54 civilian labor force participation rate. Considered a critical measure of labor force health. It bottomed out at 80.6% in 2015 and has since climbed back to 82.3% as of October, slightly below where it was in 2004-05.

[https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300060](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300060)

<comment><USER21> > That's entirely incorrect. We track all of these layers in fact.

No....it is entirely correct. The unemployment rate that was quoted was exactly as I described. I didn't say the other statistics weren't _tracked_ , I said the statistic quoted above, and the thing commonly referred to as "the unemployment rate" does not count it.

<comment><USER24> You said "People who aren't looking at all don't show up in the statistics."

Why would a reasonable reader assume that "statistics" means "specifically U3 unemployment"?

<comment><USER21> Because the standard meaning of 'unemployment rate' is 'U3 unemployment rate'. I and many other people believe that it _shouldn 't_ be that way, but it is. When people quote 'the unemployment rate', they mean 'U3', without exception.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> >But he maintained the policy was justified to discourage abuse – a point echoed by his former deputy, Mike Tolbert, who said it was the only way to prevent the shelter from being used as a "travel agency".

Why not simply restrict the free travel ticket a second time? Instead of the basic necessities like food and shelter?

Writing that out makes even less sense once you think it through, however.

If the goal of the city is to relieve itself of homeless people, they should offer as many free bus tickets out of town as homeless people can ask for... Even multiple tickets in a row... Becoming that dreaded "travel agency" that Mike Tolbert warns about.

Surely it would be less expensive to pay for a second free bus ticket than to pay two police officers to arrest the same person 3+ times in a row for sleeping on the beach... And eventually the person might find a city or town that caters to their needs better than their first destination might have and end up staying.

<comment><USER17> So taxpayers just keep paying for tickets until the person figures things out? If they know it's a one way ticket and returning could result in an arrest for vagrancy, that seems to be a pretty strong incentive to stay away. The Key West man in the story admitted that he didn't think they were serious. Well, they were.

I am not arguing other points of the story, only saying that as a taxpayer, unlimited free bus tickets to anywhere doesn't sound like a fair deal for the people who pay taxes.

Homelessness is a tragedy for some and a lifestyle for others, that's just a fact. Being homeless doesn't somehow make you free of accountability for your actions: you sign an agreement, that should mean something.

<comment><USER25> A lot of "homeless" people are actually "people suffering mental illness who haven't had adequate treatment".

It seems crazy to you to think that somebody giving you a free bus ticket out of town isn't serious about your not being able to return... but to a mentally ill human being it's not so cut and dry.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> I really appreciate the amount of data and what felt like an objective view on both sides of the issue, some folks greatly benefited whereas it was problematic for others.

Ultimately it landed in needing more data, immense respect for that type of data driven journalism.

Really love the visuals added as well!

</comment><comment><USER27> Reminded me of this story about Puerto Rico's practice of sending those with addictions to Chicago:

[http://interactive.wbez.org/puertoricochicagopipeline/](http://interactive.wbez.org/puertoricochicagopipeline/)

</comment><comment><USER28> An interesting, yet depressing story. Quite a nuanced look at a complex issue. The portaits of the homeless people involved helped humanize an otherwise abstract problem.

The graphics and web design are very cool, definitely enhancing the story. The Guardian seems to be taking a page from The NY Times recently.

<comment><USER29> Weird, I experienced the interactivity as completely broken on iOS Chrome. I couldn't even scroll properly to just read the article.

<comment><USER30> I also hit that issue on android. Had to keep scrolling on a text portion of the page until it skipped past the chart.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Homelessness and lack of sufficient housing supply which drives the affordability problem is a national crisis. We need national solutions. We need to build more transit and more housing near that transit. We need to build denser and more towards the core. We need to not neglect the inner cities. America has the power to build better cities and solve this problem together.

Affordability and skyrocketing rent costs will improve if we work harder to increase the supply of housing near transit points. We need to act on this issue quickly.

<comment><USER32> Lack of housing is one reason, but don't think it is the only one.

In Denmark there is no reason for anyone to be homeless by purely economic reasons, but we still have about 6500 out of a pop. of 5.77M

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> I wonder to what extent poor non-homeless populations are similarly shifted around the country, albeit more slowly?

A city in New Hampshire used federal funds to build low-income housing. Which attracted low-income people. Who disproportionately used city services. Which cost more than the added taxes and federal funds which came with them. So the city bought low-income housing. And tore it down. Which seems analogous to buying bus tickets out of town?

<comment><USER34> Erm, which city? I just moved here.

<comment><USER35> Not in the low income housing section, I hope

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> I'd vaguely heard of this before, a lot of friends and coworkers here in SF have said things like "you know that _____ just puts homeless on a one-way bus to San Francisco, that's why it's so bad here." I thought it was an urban legend.

I was surprised and honestly amused to discover that this is real, but that it goes in the other direction, with SF bussing out ~10k homeless people in the last decade. Wow.

</comment><comment><USER37> How much of homelessness is a result of laws hampering construction, such as zoning laws, building restrictions, rent control, which lead to housing costs significantly higher than what a free market would provide?

<comment><USER38> I think not a lot.

<comment><USER39> Some portion of the people experiencing homelessness is due to their being unable to afford housing in the city of their choice. Certainly, being unable to afford housing isn't helping anyone. But, as you so correctly note, it's almost certainly not the dominant factor.

With that said, there's some room for subtlety around land-use questions. For instance, land-use regulation can make it very difficult to build a shelter or a mental health treatment center. When the infrastructure to get people off the streets cannot be built, the most vulnerable among us will tend to stay where they are.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> Cities with services often attract homeless and people looking for a better deal. My dad ran a section 8 program, and his backlog plunged when NYC started accepting more people... you could wait months upstate or show up in Brooklyn and be in a free temporary placement in hours or days.

Other places will mention this to clients. South Carolina was pretty notorious for giving sick Medicaid patients to northeast states with enhanced Medicaid in the past, for example.

</comment><comment><USER41> While they should definitely consider serving up a more static version for mobile (couldn't scroll on Firefox Android), the experience of reading this article on my desktop was truly awesome.

I absolutely loved the graphics, cinemagraphs, and entire experience, and really do think it added immensely to the story itself.

Is there a name for this style of article? Do they use some existing JS library or is it all hand crafted?

<comment><USER42> Scrolling even on desktop was janky for me, and it was hard to center the paragraphs that were supposed to overlay the maps.

<comment><USER41> Goes to show just how broken the web is lately. I quit web dev after 20 years in the industry because it was frustrating me so much. I pretty much exclusively deal with hardware now and love that if I solder everything right, and put everything where it's supposed to, it works, and anything wrong with it is usually my fault or a broken component.

Worked perfectly on Firefox Developer Edition / Windows 10. Was smooth and I didn't notice a single issue, FWIW.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> The guy from Key West is bummed because he can't go back to the shelter he was living at. His plan was to return there, even as a fallback. He was COUNTING on it being there for him.

I think that's part of the problem.

</comment><comment><USER44> Does anyone else find that it especially easy to accidentally click ads on The Guardian whilst browsing on mobile? I don't get it with other sites. If so, I wonder what they have done to make that the case?

I'm generally less annoyed by the Guardian site than many, so don't bother with 'Reader View'

</comment><comment><USER45> Having to download HD videos an many MB of other stuff to read few pages of text on poverty.

Oh the sad irony :(

</comment><comment><USER46> The US lacks a true mental healthcare system, and not even a healthcare system available to the poor. Not a surprise that cities just move the problem around, what can they do? It's a national problem with zero national coordination or resources.

<comment><USER17> That isn't true at all. Just a quick google search reveals a plethora of indigent care along with Medicaid as well as faith-based organizations. We should be more outraged at the VA system.</comment></comment>


Hacker News Tokyo Meetup #4 (Saturday Oct 16) - <AUTHOR> http://blog.makeleaps.com/2010/10/hacker-news-tokyo-japan-meetup-4-–-saturday-16th-of-october/

<comment><AUTHOR> Hope to see you all there. It's been a while so I'm sure everyone will have lots of news!

This time we're trying out the Doorkeeper application from the Mobalean guys. It's quite a full-featured app. I recommend checking it out if you're looking to do an event and want to keep track of registration.

<http://www.doorkeeper.jp/>

<comment><USER2> Out of curiosity, what was the Japanese/foreigner ratio at previous meetups?

<comment><USER3> As HN is primarily in English, and Ycombinator is not yet widely known in Japan, maybe around 15% Japanese or so ?

The Japanese natives that do come along invariably have very interesting backgrounds.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I took a look at the RSVP for this and notice that all were 'Western' names'. Is there a startup culture amongst local Japanese? I ask because there are tons of smart Japanese, many of whom have developed awesome products for their employers, but I haven't heard of any Japanese founded startups.

Then again, maybe I'm not looking hard enough.

<comment><USER5> You probably haven't heard of any Japanese startups because there haven't really been any who have been successful abroad.

Here's a good presentation that can give you an overview of the web startup space:

[http://www.slideshare.net/araipiyo/situation-and-recent- tren...](http://www.slideshare.net/araipiyo/situation-and-recent-trends-of- web-startups-in-japan-asiajin-shanghai-meetup)

<comment><USER4> Thanks for the link, but this confirms my initial suspicions.

Japan's GDP is about 1/3 of the US, yet according to your link there was only $0.2 Billion of venture investment, as compared to $17.7 B in the U.S. That's roughly 1% of US venture Financing and wildly disproportionate!

There seems to be something holding back entrepreneurship, and I don't think its for lack of smart people.

<comment><USER6> As usual, the US are the outliers, more than Japan :) I think venture financing in most European countries is closer to Japanese levels than US ones.

One particularity in Japan, I don't know if that matters that much: working for a big company is still regarded as the quasi only way to get a career in Japan.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Argh! I'm arriving in Tokyo... at 6am on Oct 17th! I'm going to be there for 2 months though (in a Shinjuku apt), and would love to meet any fellow hackers if anyone is up for a post HN-Meetup drink? Thanks all! (And apologies for the FB-like message on HN; I know, I know...)

<comment><AUTHOR> Subscribe to the makeleaps RSS feed or send us an email and we'll try to send you an email next time. We do these every month or so, so you'll probably be around for the next one.

You can also just shoot me an email (firstname.lastname@example.com) if you want to grab a cup of coffee or a quick drink. I'm only a few stops from shinjuku.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I'll be coming, I hope.

The Mobalean guys are awesome BTW.

<comment><USER5> Thanks Jawaad!

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> See you guys there.

</comment><comment><USER10> Is this awesome enough to tolerate the bus ride from Tokushima?-)

<comment><USER11> Just looked this up. You're not kidding when you say 'tolerate the bus ride'....

      > The overnight Dream Tokushima bus runs from Tokyo and
      > Shinjuku (10 hours, ¥10000 each way).

ref: <http://wikitravel.org/en/Tokushima>

<comment><USER6> When I was a student, I usually took a bus for Nara <-> Tokyo for around 5000 Yen each way - but that was barely tolerable, indeed. Even if the bridge to cross the Osaka bay must add a significant cost to the ticket when coming from Tokushima, I would be surprised if you could not find cheaper.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Yay! Looking forward to it! Thanks for organizing!</comment>


16% of AT&T customers ready to jump ship for Verizon iPhone - <AUTHOR> http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/01/survey-att-customers-ready-to-jump-ship-for-verizon-iphone.ars <comment><USER2> I know of three ATT lines that will port over to Verizon in February. :-)

Two out of contract, the third has a $105 ETF. Cheap enough.

Even a Microcell (I own two) isn't enough to stay with ATT.</comment>


Andy Rubin: Android Had A Jolly Good Christmas With 3.7M Activations - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2011/12/28/andy-rubin-android-had-a-jolly-good-christmas-with-3-7m-activations/ <comment><USER2> Anecdotal, I know, but here in Uruguay it's the hot thing: national carrier Antel ran out of its shipment of Galaxy Aces on just two days, it generated the kind of waiting associated with iPhones in the U.S.

Android phones have definitely replaced Nokia phones as the phones to buy here. Motorola used to have a following here and capitalized by introducing their own Android phones, but Nokia was basically replaced by Samsung (and chinese manufacturers like Huawei).

I'm one of the 3.7 million :) (got myself a Galaxy Ace).

<comment><USER3> what are the price points between the galaxy ace and the iphone in uruguay?

<comment><USER4> It's worth pointing out that the Ace is much closer to the 3Gs vs. the 4 in terms of components; naturally it'll have a price advantage. Not to say price is the only reason for it's success (I presume the 3Gs is on sale there as well), just that we're comparing two different classes of device.</comment></comment></comment>


How Bazaarvoice solved data denormalization - <AUTHOR> http://blog.vvcephei.org/polloi-denorm <comment><USER2> Any chance of open-sourcing "polloi" in the near term future?

<comment><AUTHOR> I would really like to, but I haven't started to push for it yet, as we recently open-sourced EmoDB. That was a big leap for the business to take, and I wanted to give them a chance to breathe before broaching the subject of Polloi.

Also, the team has a fair amount of work to do w.r.t., documentation, etc., to make a high-quality os project.

But, depending on your definition of "near", yeah, I've always intended to open-source this project once it proved itself.

[edit] If a lot of people confirm that they would, in fact, like to get their hands on Polloi, that would help to make the case.</comment></comment>


New APM+ Transforming the Way .NET Developers Optimize Application Performance - <AUTHOR> http://stackify.com/press-release/apmlaunch-application-performance-management/

<comment><USER2> That is very cool to have finally support for Async/await APM</comment>


Megaupload Implications are plain scary for Cloud Storage - <AUTHOR> http://www.alexblom.com/blog/2012/01/thinking-through-the-megaupload-takedown/ <comment><USER2> We need to distinguish between _primary storage_ , _syncing_ , _backup_ , _distribution_ , and other cases. I wouldn't even call MegaUpload "cloud storage"; I would call it more of a CDN. If Akamai went down, people wouldn't complain about losing data, because Akamai isn't used as primary storage.

Likewise, the US DOJ makes a distinction between uploader-pays and downloader- pays business models, so we must also.

</comment><comment><USER3> How about using some common sense? Megaupload was primarily focused on enabling, and even incentivizing, piracy. Although bashing on the government is popular in our community, I don't think there is very much precedent that would indicate they would close something like Dropbox out of the blue.

<comment><USER4> How about being innocent unless proved guilty? Megaupload went down without any trial, and even though the site was __obviously __used for piracy (was it really?), that should still be proven in court and then only the illegal section of the website should be removed from web.

<comment><USER5> There's really nothing unique about that. If you were accused of selling drugs via a restaurant front, it'd be shutdown while you're standing trial too.

<comment><USER6> There is no general authority for the police to abruptly shut down a business. Once a warrant has been executed, the police leave and the business can reopen at its leisure, even if it might need to replace some equipment and staff.

The authority given to courts and federal authorities to behave as they are for suspected copyright infringement is extremely abnormal and cause for great consternation as to the direction of our legal system.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> The author, like many other commenters in the past week or so, is wasting words by saying "this is scary - what if it happened to Dropbox and I lost access to all those files!"

Let's not forget Dropbox is just a replica of local storage. That's the whole model. It's more meaningful to discuss whether or not this could happen to S3. I don't see anyone legitimately worried about that, because it's quite obviously a very legitimate business with tens of thousands of legitimate customers (just like Dropbox). Articles like these portend to get you thinking about the broader implications of a takedown, but in truth they cloud clear thinking with what are essentially scare tactics.

<comment><USER8> _Dropbox is just a replica of local storage._

It gets scary when the operators of the "replica" has the ability to delete files from your local storage as well. Amazon did this with Kindle & 1984, which caused a sizable controversy at the time. Next thing you know, somebody sends a DMCA notice to Dropbox, they delete your remote copy, and your local Dropbox folder is automatically updated to reflect the change. Whoa, no thanks.

Dropbox is also an apt comparison because part of the MegaUpload indictment has to do with their deduplication system. Dropbox is also very good at deduplication, which means that a single court order can cause all copies of an offending file to be remotely deleted from everyone's Dropbox folder.

<comment><USER7> The primary difference with your 1984 example is in that case the content originated at Amazon. In the Dropbox model you provided it to start.

If mozy was taken down do you think that it's possible they would wipe the drives of all users? I don't.

Amazon also quite clearly keeps hashes of all keys in S3, which Dropbox rides on. Would you expect the government to be able to issue hash based takedowns to amazon across all buckets?

<comment><USER9> _Amazon also quite clearly keeps hashes of all keys in S3, which Dropbox rides on. Would you expect the government to be able to issue hash based takedowns to amazon across all buckets?_

I was under the impression that Dropbox, while having the ability to decrypt your files, encrypts them before they hit S3. If so, a hash-based takedown sent to Amazon would at best be able to take down a single encrypted instance of a piece of data.

<comment><USER10> Except that Dropbox dedupe _everything_.

So I suspect what happens is that everybodies bittorrented dvd rip of Avatar on dropbox is deduped and stored once on S3, admittedly encrypted, but all with Dropboxes encryption key and all with the same hash pointing at the same single encrypted instance of the file.

<comment><USER6> I believe Dropbox uses a method analogous to block-level dedupe. That is, files are split up into smallish chunks and then the chunks are what get "deduplicated". A "file" basically consists of a list of pointers to chunks.

This makes things extra problematic because completely unrelated files might share chunks. Standard file formats may lead to duplicate headers. Or consider a political science textbook that contains a complete copy of the US Constitution, and a file that contains _just_ the US Constitution. One is perfectly legal to distribute freely, the other may not be, but both might share some common blocks, and a federal judge with a shoot-first mentality might craft an order requiring the deletion of those common blocks.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> _The Megaupload indictment reads that they removed links to the illegal file, but did not remove the actual file. To those blissfully unaware of how the internet works, this makes sense._

It has nothing to do with the Internet. In the context of file-systems, the word "remove" actually _means_ to "unlink". Doesn't this technicality invalidate the indictment?

<comment><AUTHOR> Internet was a general statement on my part, since corrected. It will be interesting to see how the "unlink" plays out in the indictment.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> > I'm the first to agree that any website obviously engaged in piracy (vs. > having independent users leverage the platform in unintended ways) should be > shut down

So if you wanted to start a website like this and maximise your business and legality - the simple answer is to just let people use it for piracy and pretend you dont know it is happening? This seems slightly silly to me..

</comment><comment><USER13> this assumes that Megaupload will lose in the courts, and it might not. all that we have so far are the claims of a handful of federal agents and their interpretation of the law plus some very weak search warrants with little PC. I agree _that_ interpretation is scary, but I hope it turns out that it isn't right.

<comment><USER2> Like the Netscape antitrust case, if they win in the courts they'll still have been out of business for years.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Does anyone know if all Megaupload content was defaulted to being publicly available? This seems to me the most obvious signal for suspicious behavior. I'm aware that with Dropbox, you can publicly post things, but in this case it's the individual user which is "choosing" to distribute the content and thus it would make sense that the user would be the one held liable. I'm not a lawyer, just exploring what might appear to clarify some of the distinctions that might help prevent abuse of anti-piracy laws.

Edit: Youtube, as a counter example, (I think) makes everything public by default, but they enforce the DMCA pretty heavily.

<comment><USER15> once you uploaded something you got a link with a unique ID which you could share. Other people could not access your file without knowledge of this unique link as you could not search for specific files (unlike Youtube). As far as I know there was also a list of Top Downloaded files but those didn't resemble the truth as they were carefully selected by Megaupload (to make sure that only legal content would be listed)

<comment><USER16> Youtube supports unlisted videos that behave the same as you're describing.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Summary:

a kneejerk reaction inspired by his fear of a legal precedent where a "physical file must be deleted where one of many users with 'links' engages in illegal activity"</comment>


Is My Code Good? - <AUTHOR> http://ismycodegood.com/

<comment><USER3> Read the bar at the bottom:

        Lovingly (and satirically) created by your friends at test double. Designed by Derek Briggs.

It's not meant to be serious, although I'm not sure what the point is.

Edit: It seems to be (perhaps unintentionally) clickbait for programmers. We can't seem to resist visiting a website that claims to rate our code quality.

<comment><USER4> This snippet sheds some light:

b=["Thoughtfulness of Names","Expressiveness of Tests","Empathy for Maintainers","Future-proof Avoidance","Conscientious Logging","Commit Message Clarity","Dependency Restraint","Release Strategy","Coherent Versioning","Convention Adherance","Pairing — Navigation","Pairing — Driving","Expectation Management","Googling for Answers","Respectful of Others"],n=function(){return _(b).chain().shuffle().first(5).value()},p=function(b){return _(a).include(b)?[96,98]:[0,40,60,70,80,85,90]},o=function(a){return null==a&&(a=[0]),_(a).chain().map(function(a){return _.random(a,100)}).sample().value()},c={59:"F",63:"D-",66:"D",69:"D+",73:"C-",76:"C",79:"C+",83:"B-",86:"B",89:"B+",93:"A-",96:"A",100:"A+"}

["pixeljanitor","bkeepers","tkaufman","searls","jasonkarns","andrewvida","theotherzach","bostonaholic","davemo","neall","kbaribeau","danthompson","crebma","dustintinney"]

Those guys all get an A+.

YHBT!

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> "Tell the world you're a C+ developer!" (sic)

it tells me, after reviewing my code, and saying my non-existent tests are excellent.

I think I'll demur.

Edit: looking at the source, C+ is meant to be the grade, not the language, which makes more sense, even if this is just a fun farce.

<comment><USER5> C+ is a language?

<comment><USER6> It is a littlebit better C.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Is there somewhere which gives an explanation of what I'm being graded on and why a given grade was assigned?

<comment><USER8> That's totally key IMO; even a link to the grading code would go some distance to that goal.

EDIT: Ok, I'm starting to think this whole site is some kind of a joke.

<comment><USER9> It is [http://ismycodegood.com/#asdgpuhashtuhqwiertjhl;hadjsgjfaw;h...](http://ismycodegood.com/#asdgpuhashtuhqwiertjhl;hadjsgjfaw;hetryp)

<comment><USER7> Well nuts, that guy is clearly a much better coder than I am!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Looks like the output is random when you incognito.

<comment><USER8> heh, that's so weird that my incognito and nonincognito results for the same username differ. And it looks like you can put anything in: [http://ismycodegood.com/#thispersondoesntexist](http://ismycodegood.com/#thispersondoesntexist)

<comment><USER11> Pretty sure it doesn't even make a network request-- looks like it just randomly generates each score, then stores them in local storage so that entering the same username more than once will give the same result.

<comment><USER12> Confirmed.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> This seems to be part of a new trend of HN Clickbait...

Next thing you know Buzzfeed will try to buy the site.

</comment><comment><USER14> Hey HN, I actually made this site as a companion to my RailsConf talk yesterday (I'm sure it was humorously confusing out of context).

The talk's slides are up here: [https://speakerdeck.com/searls/sometimes-a- controller-is-jus...](https://speakerdeck.com/searls/sometimes-a-controller- is-just-a-controller)

And video here (better versions coming soon): [https://youtu.be/LdWMcs9EEOE?t=2h56m](https://youtu.be/LdWMcs9EEOE?t=2h56m)

Humorously I joked about it hitting HN during the talk, and then it actually did. We as developers can't resist something that'll quantify for us whether we're good at writing software, even when we know it's flawed.

</comment><comment><USER15> I was expecting a big "NO".

</comment><comment><USER16> Nice, I'm an A class Developer! My secret: do very little on GitHub.

</comment><comment><USER17> It's completely randomly generated.

Hint: If you type in a GitHub username that doesn't exist like "IBetThisUserDoesNotExist" you still get a grade :)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I saw this being launched live here in this talk [http://railsconf.com/program#prop_897](http://railsconf.com/program#prop_897)

[https://youtu.be/LdWMcs9EEOE?t=3h24s](https://youtu.be/LdWMcs9EEOE?t=3h24s)

(I can't seem to link accurately into the moving live stream)

</comment><comment><USER18> This tool makes as much sense as most project managers I've met. (It doesn't, it's just a joke)

</comment><comment><USER19> torvalds

Overall grade: C

Commit Message Clarity - <USER2>

Conscientious Logging - B+

Release Strategy - B-

Expressiveness of Tests - B+

Respectful of Others - D-

</comment><comment><USER20> [http://ismycodegood.com/#zjfsdhaklvhuithsjvniqurehjcvheauirt...](http://ismycodegood.com/#zjfsdhaklvhuithsjvniqurehjcvheauirthijbvneiugnvjnaeg) Yes, it's random.

</comment><comment><USER21> Release Strategy, Future-proof Avoidance and Commit Message Clarity have nothing to do with determining if the code is good.

You should change the name of the website to something like : Are you a good contributer ?

edit : Oh it's a joke ? ha. ha. ha.

</comment><comment><USER22> Those are funny sometimes. I like the "Empathy for Maintainers" one.

Torvalds:

Empathy for Maintainers: C-

Future-proof Avoidance: C-

Conscientious Logging: A+

Googling for Answers: B

Commit Message Clarity: B-

[https://i.imgur.com/Lwu64Ms.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Lwu64Ms.jpg)

</comment><comment><USER23> I got a B+ and Im pretty sure Ive never published anything with my GitHub account.

</comment><comment><USER24> Thanks for complementing me for my tests? (That I never wrote)

</comment><comment><USER25> Definitely random as I got an A- and trovalds got a C o_O

</comment><comment><USER26> straight A+s for the creator[1]

[1][http://ismycodegood.com/#pixeljanitor](http://ismycodegood.com/#pixeljanitor)

<comment><USER27> I spy 3 A's... even if their total is A+

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> This is total crap.

</comment><comment><USER29> By the law of headlines, no. Which I agree with!

</comment><comment><USER30> Got a solid B+. This reminds me of college.</comment>


The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf] - <AUTHOR> http://greenlab.psych.wisc.edu/documents/Policy_Insights_from_the_Behavioral_and_Brain_Sciences-2015-Green-101-10.pdf <comment><USER2> Having only read the abstract and key points: The question is if video games have a better positive impact on cognitive abilities than other things you could do in the meantime that may also improve other abilities as well.

I write this because I quit video games almost entirely a year ago. I played probably 500-700 hours of video games in 2015. I played occasionally simple games on my phone in 2016.

The major downside for me was that I felt video games only improve my ability to play video games. I favored online games over single player games, but at the same time, I felt the addiction behind it. I can't play video games "for fun". I want to be good and that costs time. Video games have the downside of giving players easy rewards. I think it does something bad to your brain. Not necessarily altering it forever, but at least turning one into a little dopamine junkie.

In 2016, I spend about 40 times 3 hours in a private art school. I improved my drawing and painting skills a lot in merely 120 hours. That was a much better investment of my time than video games and I wonder if the forced concentration of looking at objects and colors for 3 hours straight had comparable improvements of cognitive abilities.

Anyways, what I want to say is this: If you feel that you're wasting too much time on video games, despite what research tries to spin positively about it, try to quit them and see what happens.

<comment><USER3> If you cannot play games just for fun, then I definitely see how it can feel like a stressful affair and an unhealthy addiction. And if that's your relationship to games, then not playing them does sound like a very reasonable choice.

On the other end of the spectrum, I myself see video games as my big passion and it's a large part of what I do to unwind and have fun. I would estimate that I typically play 10-20 hours of video games a week in my spare time.

In fact, I'm passionate enough about games that I decided from a young age that I wanted to dedicate myself full time to game development and, consequently, that is what I do for a living as a Software Engineer at Ghost Games. So, that is another 40 hours a week that I spend on games.

But I do play games simply to have fun and there is the occasional week when I simply don't feel like it. And then I fill my spare time with other activities I enjoy.

<comment><USER4> >If you cannot play games just for fun, then I definitely see how it can feel like a stressful affair and an unhealthy addiction.

The stress is in the losing.

<comment><USER5> Hell, it's in the winning too. MOBAs are a great example of a game i hate to win or lose, but _(not currently)_ play purely for the rush, teamfights, depth in meta, etc.

No game has made me hate winning more than DoTA. It's quite astounding, really. I can fully not-enjoy a match and turn right around and want to play another to hopefully get a good match. Not one i win, specifically, but one that is enjoyable, even if a loss - which entirely depends on the players.

I quit playing DoTA _(currently)_ not because of the feelings, but because of the time investment. Long games mean long iteration cycles on my above "just one more game, i want a good game". At 40m chunks, suddenly you're entire night was gone and all i wanted was one game that didn't make me feel like hell.

Yes, this is all very addiction sounding, and it's likely not wrong.

<comment><USER6> Have you looked at Battlerite before? I was in the same place as you, except with League of Legends. Loved playing teamfights, tolerated a 15 minute lane phase. But with queue times getting beyond 5 minutes and dodges becoming more common a game could take upwards of an hour from start to finish.

Battlerite fixes these issues (and adds a few of course), but the biggest win for me is that the iteration cycle is extremely short - games only last at max 15 minutes. Queue times are fast with no pick/ban phase. You just get in game and get fighting.

As someone who was finding traditional MOBAs hard to find time for, I recommend at least looking at it. The percentage of good games in my experience is much higher. One final note though: I would stay away from the subreddit. It makes r/leagueoflegends look good.

<comment><USER5> Yup, i actually own it, it's great! Granted, there is still a fair bit of meta, heroes to learn, etc - something i've been avoiding because i've been busy working on side projects.

These days with very limited time i've been focusing to co-op friendly time, so my wife and i can play together. Even though i enjoy Battlerite/Dota/etc, i need something that gives me my game enjoyment (whatever i want at the time), and also builds relationships with my wife/etc.

That was another bad thing about DoTA, she's not big into PvP games and DoTA is the king of those bad-manner gamers haha. Well, maybe Xbod + CoD holds that record... but imo, DoTA players hurt you more, hah.

Anyway, these days we stick to offline co-op games. Astroneer, Divinity Original Sin, and Pit People. All three are excellent for their respective genres (though, 2 of them are in early access and short on content).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Summary: ... we need more research... existing studies have flaws... guidelines for kids aren't even based on research... what gov't agency should regulate games? ... some agency should regulate brain-training games.

Here's the gem:

When it comes to surgeons, "cross-sectional research shows action video game experience is a better predictor of positive surgical outcomes than years of training or number of surgeries performed."

<comment><USER8> I did a quick search and I am actually shocked at how many studies there are on this:

[https://www.projectcredo.com/briankung/the-impact-of- videoga...](https://www.projectcredo.com/briankung/the-impact-of-videogames- on-surgeons-performance) †

I expected studies like "Does playing video games improve laparoscopic skills?" but not "Impact of Super Monkey Ball and Underground video games on basic and advanced laparoscopic skill training."

† Disclaimer: I built this site

<comment><USER9> Whoa! I think the same may be true for fighter pilots

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> It would be more interesting to compare playing video games to other pastimes such as golf, coding, reading, watching tv...

I'm surprised no one else noticed the conflict of interest disclaimer:

A. R. Seitz is a founder and stakeholder in Carrot Neurotechnology, a company that sells a vision brain game called ULTIMEYES. Carrot, and Seitz as an individual, are involved in a case with the FTC regarding advertising claims that Carrot made based upon Seitz's University based research.

<comment><USER7> He sure as shootin named the _hizzy_ out of that game.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Before I started working in AAA game development I spent a few years working in the field of virtual training simulators for laparoscopic surgery.

In that context there were several similar studies. We mainly focused on those performed in order to validate skill transfer from our own training simulation to the operating room.[1][2][3]

However, there were also studies which showed that doctors who had spent a lot of time playing video games in their spare time performed better in the operating room, as well.[4]

[1] _Skills acquired on LapSim transfer into the operating room_ , Gunnar Ahlberg et al., The American Journal of Surgery, 2007:193, p797

[2] _Novice performance level bypassed by VR simulation training_ , Christian Rifbjerg Larsen et al., British Medical Journal, 2009:338, p1802

[3] _VR laparoscopic training outperforms traditional curriculum_ , Vanessa Palter et al., Annals of Surgery, 2013:257, p 224

[4] _The impact of video games on training surgeons in the 21st century_ , [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17309970](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17309970)

</comment><comment><USER11> There are genres of video games much more deserving of strict regulation than "brain-training" games which may or may not be backed by science.

Way too many mobile games I've played function like casinos. Their goal is to make players spend as much money as possible and the game design reinforces such behavior and also keeps the player coming back like an addict attempting to avoid the negative symptoms of withdrawal.

When it comes to the safety of players, I think these money sinks are a much bigger concern than games that may or may not enhance cognitive abilities.

</comment><comment><USER12> My experience after over 35 years of hardcore gaming (since I first saw pong).

Largely, video games are about linear optimizations with multiple complex variables in a highly dynamic (borderline chaotic) environment. This approaches the complexity of day to day life, as many people can understand their situation in life. Unlike life, there are known bounds for most games or it takes a finite amount of time to explore these bounds to sufficient understanding to progress in some metric (usually winning ratio, but also APM or K/D ratio).

Frustration is largely a result of RNG punishment (that can FAIL? Why did my mats disappear after my 4 hours of grinding? etc) or participation failure (there were 3 of you and you couldn't handle 1?) or mechanics failure (imba <mechanic> just wrecks everyone) which includes nerfing a mechanic a player relies on. Every now and then you will also see player frustration related to a lack of dextrous skill (bullet hell shooters, fps games, rts apm, etc) or understanding (this game's <x> is just broken! - even though the game is founded around that mechanic being the strongest - i.e. Chess/Queen, Counter Strike/CT pistols > glock).

Like text puzzles or mindgames, video games allow for people to constantly develop strategies and exercise them for a complexity level that is uncommon in human experience. In group settings, the gamers generally come up with solutions to problems (of various quality) quickly and decisively, then will later discuss deeper strategy. Video game trial-and-error trains for that kind of approach and lots of playtime tends to treat indecisiveness as disadvantageous.

Does it make you smarter? Not that I have seen. Does it make you faster? Yes, it trains you to optimize your reaction time at a moment's notice and there is a dopamine feedback loop, even if you are a poor performer. Does it help you long-term in staving off cognitive decline? Probably not directly, but there was a study about constantly challenging your mind to combat decline, iirc.

Those are my thoughts.

</comment><comment><USER13> It's funny, because we'll talk all day long about how (physical) play is so important to a child's cognitive development, never considering that maybe mentally-focused play is also beneficial. The very fact that video games are so compelling/addictive has given them the reputation of being nonproductive, so we tend to assume that they must give little or no benefit to the individual player.

<comment><USER14> Games are quite passive in the grand scheme of things and do little to actually challenge cognition. Compared to other basic toys / learning devices, video games don't have compelling research because I don't think it'll work out. There's no 3 dimensional space to work through (Legos), no emotional play (dolls, action figures), visual imagination time (crayons, Play Doh)...on and on and on with better examples that don't need batteries and are more stimulating than being a button mashing monkey.

<comment><USER3> While I strongly agree about the necessity of physical play, I disagree that games in general lack the things you are listing.

3 dimensional space: There are plenty of puzzle games focused on challenging the player to understand how 3D spaces (or higher) are connected.

Emotional play: This is one of the main focuses of many RPG:s as well as interactive fiction.

Visual imagination: Many games have this at least as a component. I'd say any city building games, The Sims, Conway's Game of Life.

<comment><USER15> >3 dimensional space/visual imaginiation

These do not even require puzzle/building games, most video games that require the player to move trough a 3D virtual environment train the players ability to "mentally rotate objects" and for "visual imagination" (gotta build a map in your head of that virtual place), in this case the games world.

Many people who regularly play games don't realize this, but keeping oriented in a virtual space is not something many people are good with by nature. It only feels natural to many gamers because they are used to it.

And I'd say anything that involves some kind of "multiplayer" can add emotional play, even more so in games that require coordination between several players on a bigger scale, like MMORPGs. The social drama I've witnessed in games like WoW is some of the worst drama I've ever seen ;)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Using Visual Studio is kind of like a simple video game. Make the red underlined errors go away! Pew! Pew! Select the right intellisense on the fly to complete the puzzle! Deploy the right code snippet for the situation!

Pretty sure it's enhancing my cognitive abilities too.

<comment><USER17> Hah! Yes, and there's a lot to be said for actual games which require problem solving in order to progress. And even more those which result in something unique being created as the outcome.

In fact, your comment has made me thought of an educational type game which when completed results in a 3D model file produced, which when printed, can be manipulated a certain way to provide access to the next stage in the game.

Right.. I'm gonna think some more about this. Meanwhile, someone else reading this can steal the idea, it's all good, I'll probably never do it anyway 'cos I'm too busy playing games every single day.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> I wonder what the impact of pay to win type games?

Had an interesting discussion with my bro who is into gaming he says most of his peers are playing "pay to win" the games are only superficially based on skill and the only way to progress, compete and win is buying upgrades.

I stopped playing games seriously a while back so a bit out of the loop.

The games are rewarding $$$ over putting in the effort/time to learn. I'm curious about a few things:

What are the effects of these types of games?

Could it discourage effort, make people believe they can buy their way to skills without effort?

What are the impacts of constant gamification? The app stores are filled with toddler games heavily gamified. Are we creating a generation of people that will be purely extrinsically motivated?

<comment><USER19> F2P is a different approach to gaming where you play the game for Free so no monthly fees and most of the time no need to buy the game, this way you can attract even more player.

Here's a quick example for an F2P MMO with PVP and the difference between both models :

You can have F2P (free to play) games where there's no P2W, meaning the progression is EQUAL for paying and non paying players, the only difference is that you can buy aesthetic items which change how you look, buy extra storage space,etc but give no real advantage other than looking cool or giving you very small benefits.

In P2W model, the way to progress through the game is that you can purchase in-game currency with real money and unlock special items , stronger powers, blessed items (if you die in PVP you won't lose everything), experience booster while leveling your character,etc these items give you an edge over non paying players, so if you stack all the paying items you basically win every fights against non paying players. Therefore no matter what you do in this game you MUST pay to compete.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> I was a severe world of warcraft addict and I'm pretty sure it had a permanent effect on my cognition, whether that effect was 'bad' is an open question but there's no doubt in my mind that video games have an enormous effect on your way of thinking.

<comment><USER17> Your comment needs elaboration. Claims of "permanent cognitive effects" and "enormous effect on way of thinking" surely can be supported with examples.

If you can't describe those enormous effects, there's a good chance you simply missed out on social occasions and a bunch of things happening around you outside in your community while you played games, and that void of reality is enough to warrant claims of "enormous effects". In other words, lifestyle disruption and reality substitution. Just a theory I'm putting out there!

<comment><USER20> Tbh I didn't want to say too much about myself but it's sort of useless info anyway.

Mostly it's about the emotional connections I made with people many times my age (at the time), the fact that I was treated based on the way I communicated and prejudice was completely arbitrary (gnomes suck etc.) Basically a lot of intangibles in my way of thinking that developed during that time which would have been significantly different if I had spent that formative time in the physical realm with kids from the same cultural bubble and in the same place mentally.

It made me want to travel, a lot.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Guys, what tool usually is used to create beautiful papers like this, Latex or Adobe Indesign, or other?

</comment><comment><USER22> why are they interested in regulation?</comment>


Holographic Displays at the TGS2018 - <AUTHOR> https://boilingsteam.com/tgs-2018-amazing-holographic-displays/ <comment><USER2> Looking Glass displays are shipping this December for $500!

Preorder: [https://lookingglassfactory.com/product/looking- glass/](https://lookingglassfactory.com/product/looking-glass/)

Previously:

HN: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17603253](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17603253)

Verge: [https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/7/24/17607136/t...](https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/7/24/17607136/the- looking-glass-holographic-display-hologram-3d-image-kickstarter)

</comment><comment><USER3> Looking Glass is an amazing product. I met the founder in Shenzhen back in 2014. Nice guy, very smart, and clearly has the grit to keep at it for a long time. Can't wait to see what people do with this technology.

</comment><comment><USER4> Can anyone compare the Voxon displays to the technique used in the old Sega Time Traveler arcade game?

I have to assume that it is fundamentally much more capable, but the video in the article makes it look (to the end user) quite similar.

</comment><comment><USER5> All I want is a little Palpatine on my coffee table. Is that too much to ask, 2018?

<comment><USER6> Unfortunately yes.... welcome to the future :(

<comment><USER7> The future was supposed to have surface lighting too.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I wonder why the Voxon display uses a vertically oscillating membrane instead of a spinning one. I would have guessed that spinning would be the easier option.

<comment><AUTHOR> spinning on which axis you mean?</comment></comment>


Game Dev Examines a Potential Contender for Game of the Year - <AUTHOR> https://www.staticcatgames.com/2020/07/one-wheel-by-tapmen-review-mobile-game.html <comment><USER2> From HN guidelines:

Please don't use HN primarily for promotion. It's ok to submit your own stuff occasionally, but the primary use of the site should be for curiosity.</comment>


Fiverr Raises $30M for Online Services Marketplace - <AUTHOR> http://blogs.wsj.com/venturecapital/2014/08/11/fiverr-raises-30m-for-online-services-marketplace/ <comment><USER2> Relevant: my post about my experiences hiring logo designers on Fiverr from last week: [https://medium.com/@sachagreif/in-the-past-couple-years- star...](https://medium.com/@sachagreif/in-the-past-couple-years-startups- have-started-realizing-that-good-design-can-make-the-difference-2fdeb90d390a)

(HN thread here: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8152631](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8152631))

<comment><USER3> I've bought a couple of logos as well and have been very happy with the result every time. After the first iteration I would give feedback and they would change it accordingly. I don't care if they based it on a template as long as they deliver something usable (it's $5!). It's either that or use one of the lousy logo generators out there. Even if all they do is manipulating a template it's still better than what I will ever be able to do myself.

<comment><USER4> The problem is not if it's a template, it is if they're using someone elses work and passing it as their own

<comment><USER5> And actually, even the ones that sgdesign liked ended up being copies of existing logos: [https://news.layervault.com/stories/25882-the-5-logo](https://news.layervault.com/stories/25882-the-5-logo)

There's a lot of danger and unnecessary pain in it for a founder having a logo that's a liability. Not uncorrectable after the fact, but why do it in the first place?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> My sole experience with Fiverr was terrible. I paid $35 to their highest-rated logo designer, who promptly delivered the worst logo I had ever seen. I'm not usually one to complain, but I was so unimpressed that I told the seller that I was not happy with the logo. His response was basically "I don't care. See ya!" I will never use Fiverr again. I've had much better luck with Elance.

<comment><USER7> what kind of logo did you even expect for $35 though?...

<comment><USER6> Nike's logo cost $35. Twitter's logo cost $15.

I honestly didn't expect anything good, despite the satisfaction guarantees and "examples of past work" on the seller's profile. I expected to receive something very mediocre, and I was STILL disappointed.

<comment><USER8> In these cases, I think its less about the cost of the initial design but the hundreds of billions of dollars in marketing and advertising spent since building the value of the mark in our collective conscience.

<comment><USER6> I completely agree. I was just making the point that it isn't necessary to spend a lot of money on a logo when bootstrapping. I've had logos created by designers on Elance for around the same cost and been very pleased with the results.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> My prediction: consistent inflation causes Fiverr gigs to consistently decrease in value until they boldly "pivot" to Tenerr in 2020.

It sounds like a joke, but seriously, the name of their business does seem like it could have some ramifications in the long run.

<comment><USER10> I don't disagree, but I've been continually impressed with how "pound shops" (dollar/99 cent stores in the US) have coped between the mid 90s and now. It seems advances in logistics, manufacturing and the ease of international trade have counteracted inflation to a certain point, at least when it comes to the cheap crud those stores tend to sell :-)

<comment><USER11> J.C. Penny was founded in 1902 and for years everything in the store cost a penny :). Same goes for the price of coke that stayed at a penny for 70+ years :).

So I guess in the very long run $5 isn't sustainable (and they're going at that direction btw... $5 is just the starting point nowadays)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I see a trend of Hacker News envy emerging: The news of any startup (other than a Y Combinator company) that raises a large sum of money is derided and accompanied by a series of anecdotes of poor experiences.

I think there's so much good discussion to be had about fiverr. They created this huge marketplace for low cost services. They have impressive UI. They provide a win-win for both buyer and seller. They provide a great case study on the foot-in-the-door sales methodology through their impressive upsell system. This is a very unique and original business idea that has been executed very well on many accounts.

<comment><USER12> And just to add my own personal anecdote, I've had a very good personal experience ordering a design on fiverr. I ordered a logo for just the minimum $5 (FIVE DOLLARS!) knowing full well that I'd have to pay an additional $20 if I wanted the PSD file after. I considered this a relatively risk free way to get a logo concept (I'd pay $5 all day for logo concepts). I actually received two different logos -- both of which were surprisingly good -- and had the option to have one of them edited once more, which I did. I gladly paid for the psd file after. Also, the whole flow of the process through their UI was seamless too.

<comment><USER13> The trouble is that the likelihood of that logo actually being unique is extremely low.

<comment><USER14> I remember a HN post (I think) recently showing how most of the logos a guy ordered were ripoffs.

<comment><USER15> I think it's the luck of the draw/poor selection of supplier.

My girlfriend did fiverr logos for a while to build up a portfolio to be able to get reasonable clients and charge more. All her work was unique and very well researched.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Lots of discussion about poor experience with logo design. Fiverr has a lot of other services and I agree that it can be difficult to separate out the wheat from the chaff. As an anecdotal example of a positive experience though, I used Fiverr a few months ago to hire various musicians singing Happy Birthday in a video as a birthday present for my wife. Was the quality a bit amateurish? Sure. Did my wife care? No. Quite the opposite, she loved it.

I think if people expect to get professional quality work from Fiverr, overall they'll be disappointed. However, for fun, personal projects, where production value is not prized, it's fantastic and I think this niche is where they can start to grow.

<comment><USER17> A bit offtopic: Great idea :) . It's really hard to find customized birthday presents (it was actually a startup idea that was floating around at several startup meetings I attended).

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> I've had great experiences with voice-over services etc, but I'm a bit hesitant with creative work like logos (most just run through online logo creators). I do earn some[0] though creating small AngularJS directives and services, pays for my Digital Ocean dev box

[0] [http://www.fiverr.com/ihatehandles/help-you-with- angularjs-c...](http://www.fiverr.com/ihatehandles/help-you-with-angularjs- challenges)

</comment><comment><USER19> That's $29,999,995 more than it needed.

</comment><comment><USER20> You get what you pay for.

The cheaper, or more fixed-price, the service... the worse the quality is going to be. On the flip side... salesmen are liars... so... you're kinda screwed as a client.

Anyway... $2.99 for a bucket of beef?! Sounds like a great deal...

* The League / Yobogoya on Vimeo || [http://vimeo.com/35722138](http://vimeo.com/35722138)

</comment><comment><USER21> I think the idea and user experience of fiverr is good but $5 is too little to get anything done properly. The people doing the work end up being ripped off and not caring. You usually end up paying the extras people charge on Fiverr to get anything remotely useful

I've used it a couple of times for voiceovers - worked well if you can find the right person.

<comment><USER12> Have you actually used the service before? They have a very good upsell service for order add-ons, a lot of them with fees much greater than the $5. For many sellers, the $5 is just a foot-in-the-door sales method to acquire the customer, much like the freemium model for saas companies. They may lose money on the initial $5 order, but they make much more on the percentage of customers who purchase add-on items. This is no different than other customer acquisitions strategies, if not cheaper. See how much you need to spend to acquire a design or voiceover customer via Adwords, as an example.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> I can see people getting screwed on design/logos. That type of thing is a creative process. I've heard good things about fiverr from colleagues. I haven't used it yet, but plan on it soon for some voice work. I think something like voice work could work well since it's not really open to interpretation like design is.

</comment><comment><USER23> Fiverr is the harbor freight of online marketplaces. You can find gems, but its hit and miss.

</comment><comment><USER24> I have such a bad experience with Fiverr when it comes to purchasing Android icons. They usually return with either poor quality icons or literally stolen icons from internet.

<comment><USER25> It's a race to the bottom and you're surprised that's how they do it?

<comment><USER24> But how can you justify stealing.

<comment><USER25> I'm not justifying stealing. I'm just saying if you're paying five bucks don't be surprised if people do.

It's like buying a large TV on the street for fifty bucks. Would you be surprised if it was stolen?

<comment><USER24> I don't mind bad service. What I mind is someone flagging my product because the service I used to get graphics sold me someone else's intellectual property.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


OpenGov Got Seat at White House Roundtable and Is Part-Owned by Kushner Family - <AUTHOR> https://www.wsj.com/articles/startup-that-got-a-seat-at-white-house-roundtable-is-part-owned-by-kushner-family-1500045800 <comment><USER2> Which scenario is more likely:

(1) Thrive capital becomes the top firm for supporting startups that want to disrupt govn-related industries. It will become common knowledge that the Kushner-Kushner direct channel will be shamelessly exploited by Thrive and their portfolio.

(2) Thrive capital becomes associated with incompetence and dumb money, the type of ignorant bravado that begets wars, environmental disasters, haphazard vetting, creation of opacity instead of transparency, and corruption. Sensible startups will avoid this money because of the taint it will leave on them in 3-4 years when they are seeking public markets.

</comment><comment><USER3> Should OpenGov have been _excluded_ from the White House Roundtable because of the connection? Was the connection used to gain an undue advantage? Maybe this was addressed in the article (behind a paywall for me), but otherwise this seems tenuous.

Thrive was a <$2M series B(1) investor, they have closed $70M in funding since then. It's unclear whether Joshua Kushner was involved with OpenGov, or one of his GPs. No one from Thrive currently sits on the board.

So we get cries of "nepotism!" and "cronyism!" because, basically, "the brother of one of our investors is married to the daughter of someone important". (I know, Jared Kushner is himself in a position of power: I drew that out as hyperbole.)

 _Do you know how common this is?_ Or how easy it is to find a 2nd or 3rd level relationship like this?

</comment><comment><USER4> Philanthropic contribution to wikipedia through performance art? The selected examples section for nepotism was looking pretty thin and they are DOING something about that! ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nepotism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nepotism))

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I think this is called hustle, is it not?

Is this not proof the media is losing touch with reality...

<comment><USER5> This is generally called corruption, when a politician uses their political influence to give favors and influence to family and friends.

This kind of corruption is not necessarily illegal if you do it right, but it's looked down upon because it means you're using the office for personal gain rather than the gain of your constituents.

<comment><USER6> I think I'd call it cronyism or nepotism.

If his company isn't qualified or they are getting overpaid then I'd call it corruption.

It stinks either way.

<comment><USER7> What gives you the impression they aren't qualified? According to their marketing material at least, they specialize in making governments more effective and accountable. I'm actually glad that those concepts would be welcomed in the Trump Whitehouse.</comment></comment></comment></comment>