Using a Yubikey as a touchless, magic unlock key for Linux - <AUTHOR> https://kliu.io/post/yubico-magic-unlock/ <comment><USER2> A permanently attached Yubikey is _not_ worse than a password alone, and is still superior to SMS 2FA. It still requires that an attacker know both your password and have physical possession of your machine. For the vast majority of users, this is sufficient protection from the threats that they face. The chance that someone both knows your password _and_ is close enough to steal your yubikey is incredibly unlikely.

If you're the kind of person liable to get personally targeted for nation state level attacks, then you definitely are going to want to unplug your yubikey and keep it on your person. For the rest of us, a hardware 2FA token is enough to protect against a sim swap attack, which is probably enough.

<comment><USER3> > liable to get personally targeted for nation state level attacks

Groups also potentially at risk:

* Targets for industrial espionage (you might not be interesting but your employer is)

* Those believed to hold larger amounts of cryptocurrency

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> > Yubikeys are great for security, but not when you leave them in your > computer unattended. At that point, anyone can take the key and use it for > 2-factor authentication/SSH/GPG signing, so it's not much better than just > using a normal password.

Even after the edit at the top regarding PIN it still seems to not get the main point of a U2F token: It's physical. It's incredibly hard to extract secrets from it. It's local to where it physically is.

If I have a password then there are probably a couple of services and people that could reasonably get to it either by hacking the service the password unlocks (in storage if its a really insecure service or in transit the next time I log on), or can extract it from my password manager/memory/browser or whatever.

The point of a U2F token for me is to change the number of people who can reasonably authenticate as me from "everyone who has my password" to "everyone who have a physical key I keep within a reasonable distance from me that is incredibly hard to copy and has my password". U2F also validates auth origins quite a lot better than many other methods, although I guess that is not relevant to this argument.

A hardware U2F token is not the end-all be-all security, but it reduces potential attackers a lot.

<comment><USER5> In this context it's probably better to think about them as FIDO/ CTAP tokens rather than as U2F (which is obsoleted by WebAuthn and focused on the Web) or, as the author does, just narrow it explicitly to Yubikeys and not the wider menagerie of similar products. Yubico's own Security Key implements FIDO2 (and so could also be used for U2F) but won't work for the author's approach.

Anyway, the main thing I wanted to mention is that the use of public key encryption means this is quite different from the device having "my password". Even in the on-device ("resident credential") scenarios the authenticator doesn't have a _password_ which is a shared secret, it actually has a private key which it won't divulge - much better.

Implementation errors by a web site can leak your password, which because it's a shared secret can then be used by adversaries to log in. It's _impossible_ to be sure a site didn't get this wrong, even if you're confident they are competent and well meaning.

In contrast the WebAuthn (and U2F) design doesn't give sites enough information to impersonate you even if they wanted to, only to authenticate you. This is a familiar pattern from public key cryptography, receiving the certificate for news.ycombinator.com allows me to verify this _is_ news.ycombinator.com but not impersonate them. Likewise, when you enroll a FIDO authenticator to use Facebook, Facebook doesn't learn how to impersonate you, even on Facebook, only a way to verify that you still have that authenticator. [And the design is even more careful, it uses completely independent credentials for each site, so when Microsoft bought GitHub they actually _could not_ merge the FIDO-based authentication between GitHub and Microsoft properties, even if they thought that was a good idea it's deliberately impossible. ]

<comment><USER4> Is any of that a contradiction of what I said or are you providing context?

<comment><USER5> On re-examination of what you wrote I think I misinterpreted this sentence:

"everyone who have a physical key I keep within a reasonable distance from me that is incredibly hard to copy and has my password"

I took (hard to copy and has my password) to be properties you were giving the physical key, but in fact I see the correct interpretation was that "and has my password" is an adjunct to the properties of this hypothetical attacker who now needs to steal the key.

<comment><USER4> Yeah, I meant "(has the key) and (has my password)", not "has my key which has my password". The reply makes a lot more sense now, thanks for the clarification! I'll try to be more unambiguous.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Seems like a bad idea. Requiring a touch means it's much harder to trigger the key through software alone -- or maybe impossible. So someone has to actually be present at the machine. This is particularly important when, for whatever reason, the machine you can actually put your hands on is actually a gateway to _other_ machines. You can ssh tunnel all you want, but somebody still has to physically touch the key for it to authenticate. Naturally, that only works if you authenticate at _each_ level, and if you do not trust other levels.

The way we use them at Google, the keys are associated to particular machines _and_ human accounts. You can't just remove a key from one machine and stick it into something else. It is the combination of the machine and the key that is enabled. A key can be deregistered/wiped, and assigned to a different machine...but you need to be properly logged in to make that happen. In the context of a corporation that is relatively straightforward, but perhaps for personal use it is less so. Actually, without the right infrastructure in place, it's quite likely to be a lot more complicated.

</comment><comment><USER7> This is really cool, but I still feel betrayed cause when I read "touchless" and "contactless" I thought this was gonna use NFC

<comment><USER8> Which NFC? Almost no laptop has nfc reader. I am not sure if the situation is different with PCs.

<comment><USER9> Personally, I only know Dell Precision 7740 to have built-in NFC. I guess tablet-like / 2-in-1 laptops might also have it.

Edit: Lenovo Yoga, Lenovo X1 Carbon have NFC too.

Edit 2: Dell Precision 7750 also offers it.

Edit 3: Models with pre-installed NFC module are very scarce, this site [0] lists only 204 occurrences among 7136.

[0]: [https://geizhals.eu/?cat=nb&xf=3710_NFC](https://geizhals.eu/?cat=nb&xf=3710_NFC)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Some time there was a similar tool that locked the computer via bluetooth if you walked away from the desk with your phone. It didn't unlock it which is fine, but it seems a better way to lock a computer if you forget rather than a timed screensaver after x minutes which leaves the computer vulnerable until then. (Mostly just from colleagues changing your wallpaper, or autocorrect...)

<comment><USER11> Windows 10 has this feature [1]. Would be more useful if you could tune the required signal strenght.

[1] [https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4028111/windows- loc...](https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4028111/windows-lock-your- windows-10-pc-automatically-when-you-step-away-from)

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Sounds good, but I'd really want to use a PIN with that. Otherwise anyone can take my key and walk up to the computer and unlock it.

I wonder if there is something like pam_piv? I use PIV already for Mac & Windows... Suppose I should look for it myself :)

<comment><USER8> You need a pin for GPG. Note that, that would protect only the gpg keys.

Don't forget to set a password also for the YubiKey Authenticator app. Otherwise I believe anyone who has your key would see the websites with which you have Fido U2F and use it.

<comment><USER5> > Don't forget to set a password also for the YubiKey Authenticator app. > Otherwise I believe anyone who has your key would see the websites with > which you have Fido U2F and use it.

From what I can see YubiKey Authenticator is a TOTP authenticator. So that's completely orthogonal to U2F (and less safe, although more familiar to users who have things like Google Authenticator)

With U2F non-resident credentials don't leave any trace. If somebody has stolen a working authenticator they'd need to guess sites at which its non- resident credentials would be valid and then try it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I think the concept is really cool and it's awesome that Linux makes it relatively easy to play around with authentication methods. I love this kind of stuff.

But I'm also a pragmatist. While I run Linux everywhere I reasonably can, my daily driver is macOS and I can't help but wonder if a fingerprint reader would be a better solution.

On my Mac, the fingerprint reader can unlock the system immediately and works across the operating system for root access, including sudo. (There's a pam module.)

Locking can be done OS-wide using a keystroke (Cmd+Crtl+Q), touchbar button, or by closing the lid.

Windows has had similar capabilities far longer than macOS.

<comment><USER14> As a daily user of Linux for the best part of a decade I'm curious where Linux falls short for you?

<comment><USER13> The major one is deep integration of applications with the OS. One example is any keyboard shortcut in any application can be remapped at the OS level. Dictation and services available almost everywhere text can be entered. Any text in almost any dialogue is selectable. Application dialogs like open and print are standardized. The print dialog is incrediably rich with functionality, in every application. This extends to integration with iOS devices and system hardware.

The stock OS is ready out of the box with a full suite of integrated applications. While there are better versions of all of them, most are high quality. Though, I haven't found a PDF reader better than Preview and Apple Notes is very hard to beat as a general note taking tool.

The base OS has color syncing. I was able to hook up a professional grade printer, have the OS automatically install the drivers, and produce color accurate prints using Preview. The system print dialog allowed me to fully configure the printer. No specialized tools required. There's even an iOS app that can do the same thing in a more limited fashion.

Never had a driver issue or had to modify a configuration file to get hardware to work properly. (Have done GUI tweaks via defaults.)

When it comes to specialized applications, there are a lot of excellent applications written specifically for macOS. Some come with iOS apps. (1Password is high on my list.)

Due to the industries I work in, Microsoft Office is a hard requirement. Libre Office is not an option.

Time machine has no equal when it comes to backups and restoring to new hardware. I haven't done a clean install since 2008. In two hours I can completely clone my current machine.

This is just a few of the many reasons I use macOS. Frankly, they are more important to me than openness of platform or deep control of my devices.

That does not mean I don't appreciate Linux. I love Linux. There is nothing better for servers than Linux. I have older laptops loaded with Linux but they are a hobby for me.

Linux fills a very important place in the world. Frankly, the world needs open operating system and people who enjoy using it. But I have neither the time, expertise, or inclination to do so on my primary machine.

<comment><USER14> Don't worry in not one of the zealots that'll try and convince you that Linux has a suitable replacement for something then recommend some this that does t match up (see you MS Office vs. Libre Office for example). Just genuinely interested to know where Linux is lacking for some people (and thus something I might be missing). While I'm definitely an open source advocate I too am a pragmatist and will happily use closed source software and _gasp_ pay for software when the open source alternatives are lacking.

Personally none of you use cases have even crossed my mind, I can count the number of things I've printed in the last decade on 10 years. I can definitely see the benefit of having tight coupling between accessories/phone apps though.

<comment><USER15> I'm _trying_ to move my daily driver from macOS to Linux.

(Why? Privacy, more control over how technology interacts with me, and because at a really deep level, I know this is the expression of my authentic self. I don't like to 'blindly accept' things from others without questioning it, and I like to create. I also love to learn. All this is balanced with the desire to just sit back and enjoy a smooth experience like anyone else, half the time.)

I'm slowly researching and trying out open-source alternatives to my daily must-have apps like Notes.app, which is a great example of, so far, why this is so challenging. But I'm trying to adjust and see what can be good enough. (Web apps is not an acceptable solution, due to basic privacy expectations.)

It's reasonable to expect I have to adjust my methods somewhat, but I do need such alternative workflows to be as feature-filled and performant as what I currently use.

Like most, work requirements like Office (and Acrobat) are my greatest challenge. Perhaps macOS on KVM for near-native performance with Office + Adobe for Mac in it will be good enough?

<comment><USER14> Personally I use NextCLoud for things like Notes[1], while it is a web app it is self hosted. Obviously this means you then need to run NextCloud yourself which is an entirely different problem.

<comment><USER15> Thanks for that, I'll check it out! Not afraid to self-host my entire cloud, makes sense.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Thanks everyone for the feedback on Yubikeys being stolen! I've tried to summarize it all in a footnote, and downgraded the severity of my original starting paragraph. Thanks for reading!

</comment><comment><USER16> The main drawback of this method if used daily would be broken USB ports.

<comment><USER17> I've been using yubikeys for at least the last 2-3 years for all ssh/gpg operations and I have my key on my actual keychain so there's extra weight on it and sometimes the key sits at a bit of an angle. Still, I have yet to break a single USB port on my ThinkPad. I'm a bit worried about USB-C though.

<comment><USER18> Speaking from experience: the USB-C Yubikey will snap right off, without damaging the port (at least, on a ThinkPad X1).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> BTW, here is a handy way to quickly generate GPG keys (and set up git commit signing and SSH key derivation) on Yubikey: [https://github.com/DataDog/yubikey](https://github.com/DataDog/yubikey)

<comment><USER20> If you only want to do SSH, that way is a huge hassle, way too much to do on machines you don't own/are using casually. If you can use newer SSH versions, they support FIDO2 natively:

[https://www.stavros.io/posts/u2f-fido2-with- ssh/](https://www.stavros.io/posts/u2f-fido2-with-ssh/)

<comment><USER3> I don't think many people use GPG keys for SSH only (:

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> So anyone can take my Yubikey and use it to gain access to my computer without so much as a PIN? Is that a good idea?

<comment><USER22> To be fair, that's also how cars and houses tend to work

<comment><USER21> I prefer progress in the forward direction.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> PIV certificates are kinda meant for this

</comment><comment><USER24> i wonder if this would work for Active Directory logins which my AD connected linux laptop does

<comment><USER25> I believe the Yubikey will function as a smart card for AD authentication.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> I stopped reading at the first paragraph: "At that point, anyone can take the key and use it for 2-factor authentication/SSH/GPG signing, so it's not much better than just using a normal password.".

If the author hasn't figured out you can assign a PIN to the keys you store on the Yubi, then I don't see why I should waste my time reading their rambling blog post.

Good luck taking my Yubikey and trying to SSH to my kit. Won't do you much good without the PIN that is in my head. ;)

P.S. You can also configure the Yubi to lock and mandate a PUK after too many wrong PINs.

<comment><USER27> > If the author hasn't figured out you can assign a PIN to the keys you store > on the Yubi, then I don't see why I should waste my time reading their > rambling blog post.

Try being a little nicer. If you feel that the blog post is a waste of your time, here's a revolutionary idea – don't say anything? There are 29 other posts on the front page, maybe one of those other ones will be worth your time.

As it is, the UX of the poster's solution is totally different from yours; it enables a one-time, contactless authentication during login. Yours requires a ton of manual input every time the Yubikey is used for SSH. There is some different in the security models here, but the author's solution is broadly different from yours, and to me, much more convenient (I use a Yubikey with a PIN for work and it's kind of a pain).

<comment><USER28> I'm someone that often reads the comments before reading the article, so it's helpful to know what people think is blog spam and what is actually worth reading.

<comment><USER29> Seconded. I think one of Hackernews' biggest value-adds versus say Oreilly is the eagerness with which the commenters on this site will rip apart bad ideas/articles.

<comment><USER30> I agree, but also you can be critical without being an asshat.

It's better to comment from a perspective of "I bet you didn't know this" than "Ha, you're an idiot"

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> This is a great idea!

</comment><comment><USER32> Hey author, why did you use the words "touchless" and "contactless" when it's not true and not even relevant to the technology being used?

There's something strange going on here, like this article was written by AI or something. It's using words out of context, or just making plainly/obviously false statements.</comment>


Musk vs. Zuck - <AUTHOR> https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52487486 <comment><USER2> BBC usual blame tech gospel with a false dichotomy.

The only real people benefiting from the shelter-in-place restriction are the people that do not die because they don't get sick.

The majority as in 99% of these people are 65+ years old with pre existing medical conditions.

For this life saving safety measure other generations have to pay with a severe contraction of the economy which is cascading in an enormous job & productivity lost.

[https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105061/coronavirus- deat...](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105061/coronavirus-deaths-by- region-in-italy/)

</comment><comment><USER3> why should we care what either of them think.....

<comment><USER4> Because they have influence over the world, and some people take their opinions seriously.

Therefore being aware of them can be useful.

<comment><USER5> >and some people take their opinions seriously

Some ( or many ) even take it as gospel, especially Musk. And it is important to know where some of these perception came from if you ever met somebody with those thoughts.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Musk is a phd in physics and a genuine innovator. Zuck is a permanent teenager who got lucky copying friendster

<comment><USER7> > Musk is a phd

Wow. That's impressive considering he was only in a phd program for two days (and that it wasn't even a physics program).</comment></comment>


HOPE X Announced (July 18-20, 2014 NYC) - <AUTHOR> http://xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx/

<comment><AUTHOR> Also available at x.hope.net if your browser blocks .xxx domains.

In the past, we've had keynotes including Steve Wozniak, Adam Savage, WikiLeaks, William Binney, and the Yes Men. All bets are off for 2014.</comment>


JavaScript MV* libraries benchmarked with TodoMVC - <AUTHOR> http://vuejs.org/perf/

<comment><USER2> Can you add Dojo to the list? It's not MVC, but it's somewhat popular in enterprises.</comment>


BerlinBuzzwords 2010 Recap - <AUTHOR> http://rustyklophaus.com/articles/20100607-BerlinBuzzwordsRecap.html

<comment><AUTHOR> The main link is for Day 1, Day 2 is here: [http://rustyklophaus.com/articles/20100608-BerlinBuzzwordsRe...](http://rustyklophaus.com/articles/20100608-BerlinBuzzwordsRecap.html)</comment>


Ask HN: How have you achieved your goals? - <AUTHOR> I've never really had a consistent or a long term goal until recently, when I did try writing something down, breaking it into small bits, and following through everyday. Surprisingly, it worked! So much so I even built an app for it. But just being curious, do you all set goals often? If yes, how have you managed to consistently set and achieve them? <comment><USER2> Goals are great. If you go looking for information, you will probably find that people say they should be specific, measurable, attainable, relevant, and timely. You want something that's challenging enough to get you interested, but not so hard that it requires you to do things like not sleep, go into high-interest debt, etc.

I've found that achieving goals where nothing changes can be pretty anti- climactic. An example is weight loss, where you reach a normal weight or whatever goal you have and afterward, either you keep doing what you were doing or you'll gain weight (unless you do something else that changes calories in vs. calories out).

Taking a break from goals is also a judgment call and not necessarily something to be ashamed of the way motivational YouTube videos will say.

It's up to you what you want to do with your life. If you set a goal but wind up giving up on it, hopefully you can still learn something from the experience. Beating yourself up or telling yourself you are a "quitter" or a "failure" does not help.

Motivational books and videos will basically idolize being a perfect robot that never relaxes, never takes time off or does anything relaxing, and in many cases neglects basic things like spending time with family, sleep, etc. I think that's unrealistic. I need something sustainable if I'm going to make a lasting change in life. But that's just me.

<comment><AUTHOR> Agreed, in my little experiment, I made it a point to do little everyday towards my goal, if not a lot, with no pressure on how much I achieved in a day. The idea was to build consistency. It's surprising how well this approach worked for me. Just filling in the "What did you do today?" bit kept pushing me forward and kept me motivated.

I think the whole "be-the-hardest-worker-in-the-room" holds good only when you're so into your work that you forget what time it is. Otherwise, it definitely becomes a chore and a health hazard.</comment></comment>


Oracle v Google: Why? What does Oracle hope to gain? - <AUTHOR> http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2010/08/14/oracle-v-google/

<comment><USER2> A good summary. After several days of thinking about this I can only come to two conclusions, neither of which I like:

a) Oracle is realizing that mobile is strategic and has decided this is how they will get in on the action. They think it is much more important than Java. They will force Google to license Java from them and that way gain not only royalties, but actual control of Android.

b) This is purely about damaging Android. There is an agreement we know nothing about yet between Apple and Oracle that if Oracle takes down Android something will happen in return from Apple. They don't care if they win or lose, they just want to smash adoption of Android. It could as easily be a move from MS but it is hard to think past the bitterness and sense of betrayal expressed by Jobs about Android, or the frequently reported "close friendship" between Ellison and Jobs.

I wish these were conspiracy theories but I can't account for Oracle's willingness to detonate what is still an incredibly valuable Java asset any other way.

<comment><USER3> I have to think that if licensing fees were required for Android Google would re-tool 3.0 for Python or something. Mobile processors are getting fast enough that Python wouldn't be a problem

And if they didn't, I suspect device manufacturers would look to the _truly_ free Linux platforms.

<comment><USER4> What is important for a phone platform is what's on top, not what's on bottom. Android can compete with iPhone because of the high level stuff Google provided--the Linux at the bottom is pretty much irrelevant.

Most Linux phones, other than Android and WebOS, run crappy top level stuff written by the device manufacturers. Rarely, a device manufacturer does come up with something that is not crap to put on top of the kernel, but even then they can't compete with iPhone because they lack the infrastructure, like app stores that can attract significant developer interest.

<comment><USER3> By all accounts I've seen, WebOS is a great platform, and failed because of marketing and hardware, not software.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> This is the best analysis I've seen of the suit.

I agree that this is not primarily about money, given the uncertainty of an outcome. More than anything else though, this is Oracle proving they aren't going to play softball with infringement Sun's IP.

The whole episode reminds me of Nixon and Kissinger's plan to make the Soviets think he was nuts:

"Frustrated, Nixon decided to try something new: threaten the Soviet Union with a massive nuclear strike and make its leaders think he was crazy enough to go through with it. His hope was that the Soviets would be so frightened of events spinning out of control that they would strong-arm Hanoi, telling the North Vietnamese to start making concessions at the negotiating table or risk losing Soviet military support."

[http://www.wired.com/politics/security/magazine/16-03/ff_nuc...](http://www.wired.com/politics/security/magazine/16-03/ff_nuclearwar?currentPage=all#ixzz0wbWpMqUT)

Larry doesn't care about openness or community -- he holds them in contempt. What he cares about is winning. And this was his way to prove it.

<comment><USER6> "Larry doesn't care about openness or community -- he holds them in contempt. What he cares about is winning. And this was his way to prove it."

That's a better way of putting it than anything I came up with. To give credit where credit is due, his approach has produced for the firm. And his disdain for communities like Linux (e.g. Oracle's Linux distribution) and OpenSolaris (e.g. the leaked memo) has not cost the firm much on the public markets thus far.

But the same was once true of Microsoft, and now they have felt compelled to attempt a difficult, long term rehab of their public image. Which makes one wonder whether a similar effort from Oracle is not an If, but rather a When.

<comment><USER7> Oracle does not sell consumer software, so the image issue is mostly irrelevant.

<comment><USER6> Respectfully disagree. Reputation and image are important if yours is poor amongst a community that influences buying decisions.

Traditionally, this hasn't really been the case with Oracle, as their products are still adopted up the food chain from most developers who might be expected to have a poor image of Oracle.

The question is how long this remains the case, and what impact a poor image will have on hiring, partnership, investment in the Java ecosystem, and so on.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> It just dawned on me that this is going to be another thing like SCO.

Man years will be spent arguing over this by thousands of self-appointed Internet Lawyers for years, with the signal to noise ratio approaching zero.

<comment><USER9> Some have already started calling this SCOracle. So yes, be prepared for a long protracted legal battle. The upside might be the end to software patents. The downside is years of legal maneuvering not to mention the death of Java.

<comment><USER10> I know a number of people who would not call the death of Java a downside.

<comment><USER11> The death of _the JVM_ would most definitely be a downside.

<comment><USER12> Considering that if Oracle gets it's way, making a JVM type VM is going to be impossible without lawsuit. Those patents seem very broad.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Regardless of their goals, that Oracle found it suitable to throw Java into kamikaze attack on Google, shows how little they really value it.

<comment><USER2> I think they value Java quite a lot. The frightening part is that they must value something else quite a lot more. For my money, it has to be that they want a stake in the mobile market - they've decided they can't sit by and let the future of computing pass them by. This is their way of getting in on the action.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Total speculation but it seems very likely that Google has some database / data analysis / data processing related patents that Oracle would like to cross-license and rather than a starting with a soft discussion they throw a live grenade in the room and make the talks go quickly.

</comment><comment><USER15> Time to swap Dalvik for v8? I saw a presentation on how you could swap out the Dalvik VM for something else. Has anyone tried it?

</comment><comment><USER16> 1) Brings the issue of software patents to court in a big way

2) Opens a massive opportunity for new enterprise technologies to emerge

First reaction was anger, but after consideration I'm quite glad it's happened.

</comment><comment><USER17> I wonder if Google made a mistake including any part of "Java" in Android. In retrospect, it seems like it would have been better to not only create their own VM but the whole rest of the stack as well.

It wouldn't have protected them, necessarily, from these patent claims but Oracle wouldn't even have bothered looking because there wouldn't have been any Java technology involved.

</comment><comment><USER18> One of Oracle's selling points for their database was independence over hardware vendors. Java offers the same - although today's hardware is much less diverse.

Sun in fact did litigate over Java, as the article offhandedly mentions, though the motivation there was that MS different version was fragmenting the language, and undermining the compatibility of "write once, run anywhere".

I agree with the article that even a few billion in damages isn't worth it to Oracle. There must be some strategic advantage, quite possibly in some negotiations with Google that we haven't heard about (and perhaps will never hear about).

The point made about the mobile revolution is the right kind of path; another revolution in progress is the cloud. There is definite overlap between Google and Oracle in the cloud, with Google's technology expertise, and it being used by the enterprise - that's probably what Oracle hopes to gain.

</comment><comment><USER19> I thought a while back that Google's Appengine could eventually compete with Oracle Database and Oracle Peoplesoft. As more people use Google Apps, Gmail and build custom apps on Appengine, they may start to compete with Oracle offerings. Maybe this is Oracle's way of slowing that down.

</comment><comment><USER12> Why did Google not just buy Sun? I've been saying this since IBM started talking to Sun.

</comment><comment><USER20> There is something I don't get yet (my ignorance): how this mess will affect the other languages that runs on the JVM (like clojure, scala, etc)?

<comment><USER21> Not much. I've seen no steps taken against OpenJDK yet, and even if they did an OpenSolaris on that, you could always run it with the official JDK. It would be beyond crazy if the wouldn't make one available anymore.

What probably will happen is that some frustrated developers won't use anything associated with the JVM. I don't expect to see a lot of this, though. A lot of the people who use JVM languages already work in an environment where there's more than enough proprietary enterprise software. And I doubt that it matters a lot for complete newbies.

Personally, I was on the lookout for new languages to focus upon, after playing with a lot recently. And after this, Ocaml and Erlang moved to the top of the stack, past Scala and Clojure.

<comment><USER20> Thank you for your perspective.

Let me recap the issue as I understand it so far: Oracle filed a lawsuit against Google regarding patents infringement for their use of Dalvik in Android. This is a big problem for Google and for every other alternative JVM (especially open-source) because even for a clean-room implementation you need to be licensed by Oracle.

But as far as I can see this is not so interesting to general application developers since, I think, the majority of them targets the official JVM (open or not) anyway. The same goes for other JVM based languages, since they can generally run well in the OpenJDK.

However the general consent that I see is that this is a bad move for the innovation of the JVM platform and a move that will likely reduce the trust of the industry in this technology.

Maybe new projects will be developed upon another and more open platform, but the vast majority of application-level projects (such as the myriad of enterprise webapps) won't be so interested.

What do you think?

Disclosure: I'm interested in alternative JVM languages because in my company (who is J[ava/VM] centric) we're evaluating technologies to rewrite one of our products from scratch. Aside from my personal interest in new languages obviously.

<comment><USER21> It's too soon to say what the general consent on that issue is. The next few days will be very interesting in that respect. I wonder what IBM will say. If I'm not mistaken, their current java products (they've got their own branch of the JDK) are covered by license agreements, probably made in the Sun era. So it's unlikely that they're in immediate legal danger. Still, they might hedge their bets differently for the long term. I wouldn't really count on it, though, considering that there's no decent alternative right now, and generally IBM takes a long while to wake up.

Most of the industry doesn't exactly mess with the JVM, so they don't really care whether it's free-as-in-beer, free-as-in-speech or something in between. I think that this includes academia (where Scala is from) and consulting agencies (where Clojure is from). There's no real hard-core GNU free software crowd behind them.

I hope that I'm wrong, but I think apart from a small flock of hackers, nobody will care too much. I do think that the efforts to port both Scala and Clojure to other platforms (CLR / LLVM) will increase a bit.

A lot also depends on what Google will do. If they throw down the gauntlet and put lots of effort and money into a migration towards a different language, then the whole IT market will look quite different. But I think that's too much money wasted, to there'll be some underhanded deals and Google and Oracle will become fast friends again. If Google doesn't want to loose face by settling de jure, Oracle might drop the case and there'll be a de facto settlement.

So to summarize: From my limited knowledge right now, I don't see big practical reasons to avoid JVM-based languages. People were quite content using Java, even before Sun made their Open Source initiative. We'll just regress to that state.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> > Apple and Microsoft will be thrilled by this development.

No kidding! Apple, especially. To the extent that Apple has suffered from developer frustration with it's App Store policies, this is a mitigating factor. Apple is fickle about approving apps, but who knows what will happen with Dalvik.

</comment><comment><USER23> > What Dalvik never did – never could have done – was protect Google from > patent litigation.

This comment is a little silly considering that creation of Dalvik is what incented this lawsuit in the first place.

<comment><USER6> With the disclaimer that I'm the author of the linked piece, I'm not sure why the comment is silly. Dalvik is indeed at the heart of Oracle's claims, but many casual followers of its development are operating under the assumption that Google's cleanroom reimplementation shields it from patent claims.

An interpretation that is obviously false, as Dalvik was intended to circumvent copyright and - perhaps - trade secrets, not patents. But it's something you hear with some frequency, so spelling it out in clear terms seemed worthwhile.

No?

<comment><USER17> > Dalvik was intended to circumvent copyright and - perhaps - trade secrets, > not patents.

I disagree. There is no reason that Google couldn't have built their own clean-room implementation of the JVM and called in Android. If they used no Sun code and no Sun trademarks, there were would be copyright or trademark infringement. Outside of some technical advantage, the only other reason to completely change the design of the VM would be to get around JVM related patents.

It's quite possible that Dalvik allows Google to avoid most of Sun's patents on Java technology. The patents included the suit would seem to be violated by most VM technologies, including Microsoft's .NET CLR.

<comment><USER24> Going further than that, given Google hired a number of staff that had worked on the Java implementation at Sun, and given that the head of Google was present at Sun as the Java patent-and-copyright trap was being constructed, it seems inconceivable to me that Dalvik would have been permitted to violate Sun's patents.

<comment><USER6> In a rational world and under a reasonable patent system, I might agree. But you know as well as I do, Simon, probably better, that under the current process it's difficult to guarantee that you're not violating anyone's patents. Particularly when you're reimplementing an existing system.

Is it possible that Oracle's patents don't read on Dalvik? Certainly. Did Google take care to minimize the risk of such? I'm sure they did.

But however careful the execution, the system at present is would be actively working against them.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Please oh please let it be a Java-based iOS SDK instead of the archaic shit we have to use now.

<comment><USER25> Why the markdown? Objective-C is shitty with shitty tools. Ellison is Jobs' friend. Ellison owns Java. Android is iPhone's rival.

<comment><USER26> You don't _have to_ use it. Your opinion on objective-c is irrelevant, and Apple aren't gonna switch to Java.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Does anyone still use QR codes? - <AUTHOR> These seemed to be big a few years ago, but I haven't heard much about QR codes recently. What is the preferred way of sharing a link in the physical world? NFC? <comment><USER2> QR codes are legitimately great for what they're good at: barcode replacements.

And in answer to your question, yes, their usage has grown and expanded. While traditional barcodes remain for basic UPCs, a lot of manufacturers are utilising QR codes for expanded product information.

The way that QR codes failed is that marketers and technologists wanted to use them for everything. Website URLs, business cards, phone numbers, etc. You name it, they wanted to QR-codify it.

This failed because: (A) nobody wanted that information regardless, (B) QR codes were never well integrated into smartphones, (C) they abused them too soon and everyone got distrustful.

I'm glad "social" QR codes are dead. I'm also glad to have QR codes as a better barcode alternative for the medium to long term.

<comment><USER3> I wouldn't say they "failed". QR-codes are one of the things which are now everywhere and weren't there a few years ago at all (see barcodes weren't use in all the places where now a QR-code stands).

The fact that not many people cares to scan them (citation needed) is a different thing... still they are quite popular.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I always found this funny: [http://picturesofpeoplescanningqrcodes.tumblr.com/](http://picturesofpeoplescanningqrcodes.tumblr.com/)

<comment><AUTHOR> I suspected I was being trolled but I clicked anyway! Well played!

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Nintendo used to like to use QR codes for sharing level data (i.e. look at Pushmo, etc), and I always thought it was clever and there should be more of that. I just had to scan some internet forums for an interesting looking level, bring the game up on my 3DS, scan the code, and voila! I had the level in the game. I'm surprised they didn't do that for Mario Maker level codes.

<comment><USER6> They also used them to share characters in the form of Miis and Mario Tennis Open characters and costumes. It was definitely an interesting way of implementing free DLC, though though it obviously didn't work with any paid stuff.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> For bitcoin on occasion, but that's it.

It is odd though, I always imagine QR codes to be this magical static method to share information, but then I rarely ever use it. I believe that since it took so long to be developed as a native feature in phones, people never really adapted to scanning all the time.

I saw a well meaning nonprofit put a QR on their bumpersticker. Most dangerous QR in history.

</comment><comment><USER8> I use them constantly as a way of getting info from my computer to my phone.

I use this bookmarklet to quickly generate a qr code that is either 1) the url of the page, 2) the text that is currently selected, or 3) the text entered into the popup:

      javascript:(function(){var stext = window.getSelection().toString(); text = stext == "" ? window.location : stext; text = window.prompt("Enter Text to Make QRCode", text); window.open("https://chart.googleapis.com/chart?cht=qr&chs=500x500&chl="+encodeURI(text)+"&chls=H","qrlink","width=500,height=500");})()

</comment><comment> J-dawg Whatsapp web and Google Authenticator spring to mind. They both use QR codes to associate a mobile device with a web app. Definitely nicer than typing in a long token, and avoids an extra step of (e.g.) emailing it to you.

I never understood the point of using them to share links, it's almost always faster to just type in the URL or Google it (unless, I suppose, you wanted to share a very long or unique URL)

</comment><comment><USER9> I wish the major mobile operating systems had built in support for them. I think that is the greatest hurdle to adoption in my opinion.

<comment><AUTHOR> I think that's the real problem...you have to go find an app to read them. If your phone's built in camera detected them and suggested that you visit the link, that might make it easier.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Recently when visiting Norway I found them everywhere, and they were brilliant. Extra information, links to facilities, just everything.

In the UK they are here and there in a half-hearted and desultory fashion. When they are on something that looks interesting I scan them, and about half the time they lead to useful things, the rest of the time it just duplicates stuff already there.

As with so many other things, the technology is divorced from everyday design. The designers of the visuals don't know what to do with a QR code, and the people who do know what's possible aren't involved in the design of the objects we see. Complete disconnect, and so the technology - which could see so much imaginative use - languishes.

</comment><comment><USER11> I don't use them. I have no reason to use them. Having said that, I still think that they are a great idea, there's just not a "killer" use case for them for the general public in everyday use.

<comment><AUTHOR> You're right, they never found that killer use case. The use case I'm interested in is something like a purchase receipt from a store or restaurant, and you want the customer to go to a page or open an app to write a review. A QR code printed on a paper receipt would be perfect, if people actually used them.

I found this article[1] that talks about alternatives, namely augmented reality, NFC, iBeacons, clickable paper, Google Goggles, and SnapTags. Nothing seems as straightforward as QR codes promised to be.

1\. [https://econsultancy.com/blog/64891-six-mobile-marketing- alt...](https://econsultancy.com/blog/64891-six-mobile-marketing-alternatives- to-qr-codes/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Here in China, QR codes are often used for person-to-person or in-store payments (using Alipay or Wechat) and for adding a Wechat contact when you meet someone new.

</comment><comment><USER13> They are used a lot with Bitcoin, whatsapp uses them for pairing with the web interface, authenticator uses them to import keys.

I think they're great. They're very fault tolerant and can contain a ton of information. It's a great way to scan stuff from you computer (or anywhere else) and import it into your phone.

</comment><comment><USER14> I was on a US continental flight yesterday and my boarding pass was on my phone as a QR code.

<comment><USER15> Flights are one of the very few areas I have found QR codes to be useful. I'm usually able to check-in on my phone during the drive to the airport, add it to Passbook, and by the time I'm at the TSA screening area the ticket has made it's way to my watch. I'm always a little wary of clunking my watch on the glass screen of the barcode reader, but haven't had a problem yet.

One time, on an American flight, the scanner at the gate was somewhat of a C shape and my watch + wrist wasn't able to fit inside of it, which was quickly resolved by pulling out my phone and sliding it into the scanner.

On another positive note, TSA agents love it and always accuse me of being James Bond. Makes the screening process much more fun.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> They turned out to be a less than optimal way to publish a book.

[http://www.wonder-tonic.com/books2barcodes/index.php](http://www.wonder- tonic.com/books2barcodes/index.php)

</comment><comment><USER17> It's a mainstay for adding new contacts in Line and to some degree Facebook.

Just the other day I saw a full poster add in the subway that was just a QR code.

I still don't understand why QR readers don't come out-of-the-box on smartphones.

</comment><comment><USER18> Steve Gibson's SQRL looks to be an interesting application of QR codes. [https://www.grc.com/sqrl/sqrl.htm](https://www.grc.com/sqrl/sqrl.htm)

</comment><comment><USER19> I have been to a social media session where they explained why (for that industry) QR codes are now kryptonite because they have been abused so much and users just associate them with bad Ux.

<comment><USER19> A funny story in a middle eastern country they put a huge QR code on a road billboard and expected users to scan it while they were driving the highway.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> I scan/use them as a factor (with the Google Authenticator mobile app) with google-authenticator for secure logins to servers. I find they are quite useful in that capacity.

</comment><comment><USER21> Right here, right now I'm at a dev group meeting and someone just spoke to me about how they just fielded a child pickup system using QR codes.

</comment><comment><USER22> Conference posters

</comment><comment><USER23> They're HUGE in Asia. Especially in China.</comment>


John C. Dvorak on Google I/O 2013: Worst Keynote Ever - <AUTHOR> http://anewdomain.net/2013/05/16/john-c-dvorak-on-google-io-2013-worst-keynote-ever/

<comment><USER2> Talking about conferences, dress code is a good thing definitely.

</comment><comment><USER3> I know Google seems to have decided to turn I/O (back) into a developer- focused conference, but maybe that's a mistake, and if they held a 1-2h keynote with some product announcements in the first day of I/O, both consumers _and_ developers would be more excited about the whole thing.

After all developers are consumers, too, and if they don't get excited as consumers about something, they probably won't get excited as developers either.</comment>


Cool tool to present from browser to browser - <AUTHOR> https://www.beamium.com <comment><USER2> If it meets the guidelines, this might make a good "Show HN". Guidelines: [https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html)

Curious if there is a story behind it's development.</comment>


Freelancer.com acquires Warrior Forum - <AUTHOR> http://press.freelancer.com.s3.amazonaws.com/20140415%20Freelancer.com%20acquires%20Warrior%20Forum,%20the%20world%E2%80%99s%20largest%20Internet%20marketing%20marketplace%20&%20community.pdf

<comment><USER2> Seems like a rather weird acquisition, but good on Warrior Forum for selling. Freelancer.com seems to be becoming a rather big company, they've been buying a lot of companies and expanding of late it seems.</comment>


Renaissance (film) - <AUTHOR> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_(film) <comment><USER2> I always thought this was underrated but few people have heard of it.</comment>


2016 ACM International Collegiate Programming Contest Scoreboard - <AUTHOR> https://icpc.baylor.edu/scoreboard/ <comment><USER2> A new edX course [1] was announced few days ago, which is created by SPb ITMO (which finished 7th this year).

[1] [https://www.edx.org/course/how-win-coding-competitions- secre...](https://www.edx.org/course/how-win-coding-competitions-secrets- itmox-i2cpx)

<comment><USER3> The course looks really interesting to be frank. I've recommended it to my college's competitive programming team actually!

ITMO did not get 1st place this year because the team changed, and I believe _tourist_ graduated. Last year [1] for example they solved all 13 problems, while the 2nd team solved 11; there simply was no competition.

7th is still an excellent result. Let's see what they do next year!

[1]: [http://a2oj.com/ICPC.jsp?y=2015](http://a2oj.com/ICPC.jsp?y=2015)

<comment><USER4> Tourist in ineligible because he has already participated twice, which is the limit.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Why are Russians so historically good at these competitions?

China have raw numbers, America has the resources/ecosystems to train and prepare these programmers. Russia seems to have neither and regularly outperform both nations.

<comment><USER5> I believe that it is because of two reasons [massive generalization follows...] (1) emphasis on math and physics (2) stress on discipline and rote learning. US students have (1), Chinese have (2), Russians have both. You would realize that most competitors in these contests end up doing pattern matching with previously solved problems. In addition, they keep a catalogue of most asked questions, common codebase, etc. for reference and pulling out code. I do not think that these competitions produce good programmers as they incentivize writing quick, ugly, non-resusable code.

<comment><USER6> While you are correct in pointing out that these contests only test a relatively narrow subset of the skills needed for good programming, I don't think it would be correct to say it's based on "rote learning". There can be some amount of pattern-matching, but it's not as if you can just read the solutions to 100 problems and expect to do well.

Also, I know for a fact that many (but not all) people who were good at these contests are also good all-around programmers. (In fact, you probably do better at these contests by writing more readable code, even accounting for the time cost. But some people can get by with messy code as well.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Problems : [https://icpc.baylor.edu/worldfinals/problems/icpc2016.pdf](https://icpc.baylor.edu/worldfinals/problems/icpc2016.pdf) . Problems can be tried online at [https://icpc.kattis.com/problems](https://icpc.kattis.com/problems)

</comment><comment><USER8> Scoreboard with links to the TopCoder handles of the team members [http://zibada.ru/finals/](http://zibada.ru/finals/)

</comment><comment><USER9> In the US, the smarter students don't generally waste their time with these programming competitions. Grades, research, and extra credit would matter more towards a student's academic success. These contests generally appeal more to "hobbyists" or those who have nothing better to do with their time, and so you get biased results.

<comment><USER10> Explain then why Harvard is #3 on the list (and MIT at #6).

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Can someone explain the significance of this competition? I've never heard of it before and am just looking for a little understanding of what, if anything, there is to read into the results.

<comment><USER12> Competitive Programming is a sport where teams(or individuals in some instances) compete with each other to solve a set of algorithmic questions in the shortest time. This generally happens on a system called the Online Judge which is basically a system for code evaluation.

ACM ICPC is basically the Olympics of Competitive Programming.

The significance can vary from person to person but sometimes Universities and Companies look favourably at good results in such competitions.

<comment><USER11> So, like the olympics, the important member organizations put a reasonable enough amount of effort into it to ensure they're represented well? Like, I really should be looking at UCF as a college that produces some of the best programmers in the US?

<comment><USER12> The members that perform well are those who have the organisations which care. It doesn't necessarily translate to a great CS program at the university. Sometimes teams are also carried by one or two brilliant competitive programmers that crop up from somewhere and then disappear in four years time.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Stanford course on Programming Contests: [http://web.stanford.edu/class/cs97si/](http://web.stanford.edu/class/cs97si/)

</comment><comment><USER14> Hmm, Kim Il Sung University is ranked 30th. Didn't know NK sent students to ACM ICPC.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Il- sung_University](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Il-sung_University)

</comment><comment><USER15> I have always found a lack of books on advanced things that I've encountered in competitive programming like Fenwick trees, link-cut trees, rmq etc. Can anybody recommend book(s) that contain these things?

<comment><USER16> I don't know how many books there are on those topics. A lot of the data structures in higher level competitive programming problems have pretty niche uses. It might be best to look at papers instead. Here's one on the Fenwick/Binary Indexed Tree:

[http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download;jsessionid=503...](http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download;jsessionid=5033B72D44A20319647FE3815574B194?doi=10.1.1.14.8917&rep=rep1&type=pdf)

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Would like to give my congratulations to my school, the 99th place University of British Columbia. The team is composed entirely of first-time World Finals participants!

</comment><comment><USER18> I did a competitive programming course in undergrad, these problems are really interesting if you're not familiar with it. I highly recommend folks try a few problems and look at the solutions. It can be really eye-opening.

However, I really haven't applied much of what I learned doing the problems to "real" work. It's cool to see methods of looking at things differently, but just doesn't translate well to software development.

<comment><USER19> Speaking as a former ICPC competitor/coach, I think the aspect that most directly translated to professional software development was getting practice at quickly writing _and reviewing_ code for performance and correctness.

A bit of background about ICPC, for those who don't know: It's a team competition. You have 3 contestants on a team, but only one computer on which to write, test and submit your code. Most of the work of solving a problem is usually done in your brain or on paper, so typically, one person will be coding at a time while the other two think about problems and get ready to rotate to the keyboard.

But although the primary scoring criterion is number of problems solved, you also get penalized for time taken and incorrect attempts. So it's really important to be able to glance over someone else's shoulder and notice things like "oh, there's an off-by-one error in that loop condition" or "you forgot about such-and-such an edge case".

<comment><USER18> That's fair. It's definitely good for training/exercising the syntax parser and debugger in your head without relying on an IDE or compiler errors. And you definitely have to plan ahead to complete the problems in the time allotted. Debugging in my head has always been one of my strong suits so I tend to forget that other people have other strengths first. :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> I look at these rankings, and can't help but notice that it's basically whatever school has a club that really cares. Looking at the American schools, no one is going to rank the computer science program at the Illinois Institute of Technology above the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign.

</comment><comment><USER21> Surprised that Kaist is so far up there. While they are the best in science in Korea and they do have a dedicated team that practices, they still have very few students in undergrad.

</comment><comment><USER22> I organized these for freshmen at my school. Reading through these comments we had small chance of getting to these levels since other places offered competitive programming courses.

<comment><USER23> Lviv University that finished 11th offers no such course.

There's actually a study group where the winner team and number of older contestants rotate to talk.

P.S. Link [Ukrainian] for anyone interested [http://mycollege.org.ua/](http://mycollege.org.ua/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> Problem H was apparently not popular at all. Something special about it ?

<comment><USER25> I'd say so. It looks pretty. .. unappetizing: [https://icpc.baylor.edu/worldfinals/problems/icpc2016.pdf](https://icpc.baylor.edu/worldfinals/problems/icpc2016.pdf)</comment></comment>


Cyberattacks: Washington is hyping the threat to justify regulating the Internet - <AUTHOR> http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20100429/cm_csm/297733 Replacing link posted earlier that resulted in a redirect loop <comment><USER2> China is doing exactly the same. According to the latest law from the News Regulation Bureau, it requires everyone to register their real life identity to get online to _protect Internet security_.

<comment><USER3> Really? wow

<comment><USER4> It's not so uncommon in paranoid jurisdictions. I don't know the situation now, but when I was in Italy a few years ago you couldn't even use an internet cafe without showing ID.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> "our power grids, air and ground transportation, telecommunications, and water-filtration systems are in jeopardy."

Simple solution to all but one of those: unplug the uplink cable. There's no reason that systems with control over power grids or water filtration systems should be connecting to any public network.

</comment><comment><USER6> Called it back in February:

[http://www.danhulton.com/blog/2010/02/17/get-scared-and- subm...](http://www.danhulton.com/blog/2010/02/17/get-scared-and-submit/)

</comment><comment><USER7> I couldn't find the original at the CSM. Has anyone found it?</comment>


[TextArea.com] I made a small and clean blog any advise? - <AUTHOR> https://www.textarea.com/about/ <comment><USER2> This would make a good submission for "Show HN". If you resubmit, start the title with "Show HN: " and it will be placed on that page.

</comment><comment><USER3> You have a problem with hyphenation (for instance in the privacy page). :)</comment>


"So many fakers in startup land today" - <AUTHOR> https://twitter.com/i/moments/810790911223402497 <comment><USER2> After reading [0] today, I feel happy that someone decided to write this up.

Over the last year, I've seen a dozen colleagues who have created startups just to fleece money from VCs (if you can call them that) who have lots of money and no clue about tech in general (the ones who have seen shows like Silicon Valley, movies like The Social Network and Uber's evaluation and want to make a quick buck this time around).

I don't believe there's a bubble, but if this continues, we'll soon have one real quick.

[0] - [https://www.saastr.com/22-reasons-i-wont-fund- you/](https://www.saastr.com/22-reasons-i-wont-fund-you/)

<comment><USER3> I know 2 colleagues starting a local startup together just to build their career. They both hate coding. One is now a software architect and the other is an engineer manager. You see: start a company --> practice hiring and managing engineers --> shut down the company --> find jobs at big companies with management skills($$$).

<comment><USER2> I won't lie but this used to happen a lot at my university. Software Engineers would not find summer jobs (because they don't have experience - the usual chicken & egg problem).

So they'd create new startups every summer (or just one and keep progressing) and then work at one of the big 4 after graduation.

<comment><USER4> I'm not sure it fools anyone :) Several years ago it was notable to see 'cofounder' on a resume, now I just assume they did a hackathon for a weekend and then kept the site up.

If they managed to get some paying customers though - hey that's real work / real experience! (assuming it wasnt their mom)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> There's massive inflation in the valley. Too much dumb money chasing too many dumb ideas. Investors need to start stepping outside of the valley. If not funding to sociopaths will only increase.

</comment><comment><USER6> In all honesty, you can learn a ton of things in 1 year doing a startup that you'd learn in 20 years working for a big company...even if it fails. Marketing, selling, talking to customers, coding, etc. In most big companies you don't get even close to the customer. A lot of investors started the whole idea of funding useless ideas, then now complain that everything is useless, yet everyone applauds.

</comment><comment><USER7> What a great example of why Twitter is a terrible communication platform!

</comment><comment><USER8> Loved this one:

 _> 10/it's like the year after the Blairwitch project in Silicon Valley, a legion of dopes running around pretending to make important films._</comment>


Details on Android 4.2 - <AUTHOR> http://developer.android.com/about/versions/jelly-bean.html#1

<comment><USER2> I have to say I'm really surprised that they've dropped the tablet specific ui tweaks. Seems to me that some especially the centered home, back, recent apps buttons are a step backwards for usability on larger devices. Given the great focus they've had in android on making apps that adapt to device size smoothly its a surprising they wouldn't follow the same logic with the navigation ui, etc.

<comment><USER3> I agree, but I can sympathize with their reasoning.

One requirement is consistency; users of Android phones (of which there are many) will feel right at home using a phone UI on a tablet (of which there are relatively few).

Another is, in fact, usability; holding the device in your left hand while manipulating it with your right is probably a common scenario, and I've personally sworn at my Android tablet with the traditional UI when my palm grazes the Back button. This is also annoying in games, where using your left thumb on a virtual joystick leads to hitting the Back/Home buttons at inopportune times. It seems that moving these controls back to the center forces users to have the intention of navigating through the system, and I have to say that is a pretty good reason.

However, I believe that all of these issues could have been solved with palm- detection or simply disabling the buttons when swiping from another part of the screen.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'm pretty happy about the support for nested fragments. Even better, they've back ported it to the compatibility library so I can start using it in apps I'm writing now.</comment>


Back to the Future Photo Project (NSFW) - <AUTHOR> http://irinawerning.com/bttf2/back-to-the-future-2-2011/ <comment><USER2> The amount of hyperbole and ranting on the NSFW angle to me on this thread over the last day is rather disappointing.

One should not think of the NSFW tag as a comment on morality, puritanism or anything else. It is simply a common part of netiquette which developed as a courtesy.

"Hey, there is some stuff in this link such as nudity, questionable content, etc which _may_ be an issue for you if you are at work, sitting in public or somewhere else potentially sensitive. Just a heads up!"

All it is meant to do is let you know. Some people work in schools, libraries or other places where this isn't OK. Not to mention that while many of us don't have any issues with nudity, myself included, we might not want to browse it at work.

Get over the whole "Oh my god $XYZ is so full of prudes, in my country this is totally OK" and appreciate the fact that it's considered polite.

<comment><USER3> I was going to agree with you _before_ I actually clicked the link.

Any place where this is NSFW has some serious issues. Sure, I know such places exists, but you cannot expect submitters to constantly be aware of such outliers any time they submit a link. Otherwise we would constantly have to check a whole list of obscure cultural sensitivities around the planet.

You want an NSFW tag for this utterly harmless link, just ask politely. But don't accuse people for whom it's genuinely hard to imagine why this would be an issue of being impolite.

<comment><USER4> I feel like a prude now, but you saw the boobs, right?

<comment><USER5> And to preclude the "But it is art!" argument, the point of NSFW is what you think about it being art has no bearing on what your boss thinks.

<comment><USER6> And rickmb's point is that some people may not even realize that this would be NSFW in some places. Not everyone is an American or knows how prudish people are here.

<comment><USER7> rickmb said _"Sure, I know such places exists"_ \-- and anyone here who didn't know has now been informed. "I didn't know" is no longer a valid excuse.

Once you understand that nudity is a big no-no in some workplaces, it's _impolite_ to leave off the NSFW label.

<comment><USER6> That's why I said "some people".

"but you cannot expect submitters to constantly be aware of such outliers any time they submit a link. Otherwise we would constantly have to check a whole list of obscure cultural sensitivities around the planet"

Of course _you_ know what's not allowed at your work. Do you keep tabs on everything else? I hope so! There are thousands of different cultures out there, better not miss any!

<comment><USER7> It's not a matter of keeping tabs on every possible cultural taboo. True outliers aren't the issue here. Be aware of _common_ issues for _the audience of the website you're posting on_ , and label appropriately. Given the audience for HN, _nudity of any kind, sexual content (including text), and profanity in audio/video_ are all issues for a large enough percentage of the audience that they should have the NSFW label. (If you were not previously aware of these taboos, you are now.)

My own "workplace" is home; I'm a full-time parent, and not at all worried about being fired. But I recognize the issues that are common for others, and label my posts appropriately. Please have the courtesy to do the same.

<comment><USER5> The first clue on common issues being this site is in English. Not to take an Anglo-centric point of view, but odds are the _overwhelming_ majority of HN readers work somewhere with Western workplace values.

(Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the 'NSFW' tag is quite appropriate in all the main English hubs- USA, UK, Canada, Australia, probably even Singapore)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> So, I flagged this post as not relevant to HN, and normally that would be the only action I would take. But I'm kind of curious as to why this is being up- voted so much.

Is there some element of this site that is legitimately within the purview of links appropriate for HN (<http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html>)?

It is getting enough votes that I am curious if there is some deeper element that I'm missing other than just the ascetic interest of it.

<comment><USER9> It's quite creative. As developers, entrepreneurs, etc., shouldn't we be nurturing this very hard to qualify talent?

<comment><USER10> Nah, its just arty creative, not hacker creative.

<comment><USER11> Serious question: Do you really feel there's a material difference? There was creativity in concept and extremely masterful technical execution. Feels pretty "hackerly" to me.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Very well done. My favorite is the image of the kid chipping away at the Berlin Wall and then having it gone when he's older. Things can drastically change in a lifetime (or a quarter of a lifetime)

<comment><USER13> I hate to simply chime in with an "I agree," but that specific image achieved a verbal "Oh, Wow" from me.

Awesome.

<comment><USER14> One, in my case, that was delayed a few moments while I tried to grok why the second photo obviously wasn't taken in the same location as the first ... and then ... oh, it was.

The lives that wall divided.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Please change the title to include the string NSFW.

[EDIT: Thanks for updating. Nudity, no matter how innocent, should probably have this warning.]

<comment><USER16> Just out of curiosity: what is it that makes you think the pictures aren't SFW? Is it the nudity? This a serious question, as I suppose you're saying it's NSFW in the US, but I don't think there would be a problem in my country.

Thanks.

EDIT: Okay, from the comments so far I now understand it's not so much that there's nudity in some of the pictures, but that some of them contain children. Even though it's still nuts I think (not all pictures containing nudity are pornographic, and none of the ones here are even close to pornography), I get the idea now. Thanks again.

<comment><USER10> Photos of topless women are usually not suitable in most western workplaces.

<comment><USER17> The one in this specific example is likely ok in most western workplaces, outside of the US. Europeans don't freak out nearly as much over this kind of stuff as Americans do. It isn't porn, as anyone with a pair of eyes can clearly see.

<comment><USER18> True, but in America the the 'before' photo is especially problematic. Though it clearly isn't pornographic, a topless (presumably) under-aged girl is potentially job-hazardous.

For example, I'm a public high-school teacher; I'm quite glad I waiting until I was home from work to check out the link. Having that image in my work browser cache is a risk I'd prefer not to take.

<comment><USER19> Also, we are very litigation happy over here. If I were a workplace, I'd be worried about a lawsuit over a 'hostile work environment' to be honest.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> This is awesome! The German Wall pictures are among my favorites.

In case you'd like to send your praise to the artist: firstname.lastname@example.com

</comment><comment><USER20> Just as a warning for those reading the comments before the linked article: at least one of the photos is NSFW.

<comment><USER21> agree, missing Berlin Wall photos may be offending to your conservative co- workers as an "in-your-face" reminder that the human race progress can't be stopped.

<comment><USER22> It's entertaining that you picked a subject that can be used perfectly both ways. ;)

<comment><USER21> the difference between Communist Party bosses back in the USSR/Germany and right wing conservatives in the US today is only superficial. So, i'm not sure how you can have it both ways.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> _"Maartje 1990 & 2011 Amsterdam"_ is going to be really tricky for people in England. The sexual offences act makes that kind of photo pretty much illegal for anyone, with narrow exceptions for law enforcement doing their job.

Maybe context would provide some kind of defence - but still the disruption to a person's life (computers seized; suspended from work; possible court cases; etc etc) are still significant.

To post such content without an NSFW[1] warning is stupid.

<comment><USER24> Let's say it's an art. See dozens of movies where you can see naked teens or even children, movies which are still publicly available and no ones computers are being seized. Also millions of family photo albums contain this kind of imagery.

<comment><USER23> > _no ones computers are being seized._

Yes they are.

> _Also millions of family photo albums contain this kind of imagery_

and people taking these kind of photos today[1] are being reported to the police.

[1] at least, a few years ago when people were using film.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Part 1: <http://irinawerning.com/back-to-the-fut/back-to-the-future/>

<comment><USER26> Part 1 is NSFW in exactly the same way as part 2. See <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3253422>

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> While not professionally done (and some done much better than others), this is quite similar to 'Young me, Now me':

<http://www.zefrank.com/youngmenowme/>

<comment><USER28> Neat. An interesting alternative title is 'Old me, New me'.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> Wow, this is really phenomenal. It's amazing to see how little some people change versus how much others do.

</comment><comment><USER30> FYI, that's Billy Bragg in the Riff Raff photo

</comment><comment><USER31> I found the link interesting and am glad it was posted on here. If not the content itself, then certainly the ensuing conversation is relevant to HN. The fact that sexuality is so taboo in our culture yet motivates humans at the most basic level is fascinating. Others question why this link and not others get so much attention, which is another HN relevant issue. Maybe more people saw it at the same time and the sudden influx of upvotes sent it on its way.

</comment><comment><USER32> This is fricking awesome. For some reason, I really love 'back to the future' 'before and after' photographs.

One thing I noticed its how good the Argentinians age.

</comment><comment><USER33> This is weird, the sidebar says "All Photographs © Irina Werning" but it seems obvious that the old photos were not taken by her.

<comment><USER34> Not having taken the photos doesn't mean that she doesn't currently hold the copyright to them. It would be easy for her to have a copyright transfer from the original photographer be a condition for inclusion in her project.

(Also, I expect that there would be a separate copyrightable work for the combination of the old and new pictures, and the compilation of the series as a whole.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> someone is pretty serious about color matching

<comment><USER36> (You might already be aware of this, but it's relevant to the post and others might be curious.)

I'm sure that more effort than this was put into the color matching, but the Photoshop color match function allows for statistical sampling of an image/layer and applies those values to an existing image.

It can produce the same results and is one of the hidden gems of Photoshop that few users take advantage of. Not a filter, it's one of the adjustments.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> Life truism: you will get saggier.

</comment><comment><USER38> Being labeled as NSFW on HN is for me the more interesting part of the link.

Don't you dare visit the page. There is at least one underage girl in underwear and a pair of developed female breasts.

Also a naked toddler!

Is it SFW if you know the girl in underwear is from Amsterdam?

</comment><comment><USER39> NSFW

</comment><comment><USER40> nsfw fyi

</comment><comment><USER41> The first image is currently being used in an anti-smoking ad which I saw yesterday in the London Underground.

</comment><comment><USER42> Wow!

</comment><comment><USER43> This is not hacker news.

<comment><USER44> Agreed, the number of wow-answers seem to correlate, maybe wow should be counted as downvote?</comment></comment>


Show HN: Remote Friendly – a site for finding and listing remote-friendly jobs - <AUTHOR> https://remotefriendly.work <comment><AUTHOR> I created this site partly as a way to teach myself web development, and also because I work remotely and found that there aren't too many resources for finding remote jobs.

</comment><comment><USER2> Nice site but there are a ton of resources out there for finding remote jobs.</comment>


How the US military became a welfare state - <AUTHOR> http://aeon.co/magazine/society/did-the-us-military-kill-the-welfare-state/ <comment><USER2> I'm a veteran. I come from a very poor family. It was through only joining the military that I was able to crawl from below the poverty line to the middle class. I'm now a software engineer in New York and enjoy an upper middle class life style.

I wish every American, veteran or not, had access to the same welfare that every Soldier, Marine, and Sailor enjoys. Easy Access to housing, healthcare, childcare, family counselling, legal assistance, and education benefits allow for greater mobility between economic social stratas. Every American Should have access to these things without having to join the military to receive them.

EDIT: Grammar.</comment>


HP Board Said to Weigh Ousting Apotheker as CEO - <AUTHOR> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-21/hp-s-board-is-said-to-weigh-ousting-apotheker-after-less-than-year-as-ceo.html

<comment><USER2> What kind of nonsense is this? It's the board of directors that needs to be dismantled and reorganized. I'm indifferent to HP as a company so it doesn't matter to me what their corporate strategy is. However, if you bring in a new CEO to run your company, how can you fire the guy in less than a year, before that strategy has even been given a chance? He wants to focus on the enterprise software business, and I'm sure thats something he must have told them before he came on board. So then let him do it.

<comment><USER3> >However, if you bring in a new CEO to run your company, how can you fire the guy in less than a year, before that strategy has even been given a chance?

You can do it when the market has clearly responded to the new strategy by absolutely brutalizing your stock price[1], and when investors are in turn suing because the new strategy flies in the face of everything you've been telling them about the company for the past eighteen months.

[1] [http://www.google.com//finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1...](http://www.google.com//finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1316635200000&chddm=25024&chls=IntervalBasedLine&q=NYSE:HPQ&ntsp=0)

<comment><USER4> Sure, you can do it but it's just CYA for a mistake of the board's.

I mean presumably they discussed this strategy with Apotheker before bringing him on, right? He didn't just go rogue on them? So they approve the plan, bring him on, and then when people don't like it, jettison him as a scapegoat. Which is fine, don't play in the big leagues if you think life's going to be fair. But the board are at fault here.

<comment><USER5> > I mean presumably they discussed this strategy with Apotheker before > bringing him on, right? He didn't just go rogue on them?

Yes this is a certainty. No CEO could make a 10 billion dollar acquisition without board approval.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> So he's doing a bad job, and their solution is to bring in....Meg Whitman? Seriously?

<comment><USER7> That's crazy talk.

<comment><USER8> Agreed I took it as a joke. Honestly I think anyone that you would give the CEO title to at a multi billion dollar company should also be given the trust to pursue the chosen strategy that the board approved.

On the other hand, its a huge turn for HP to sell off the leader of a segment and try software.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> The board should fire themselves.

<comment><USER10> And not just for past incompetence. Let's say their super-smooth CEO headhunter flies into Toronto and takes me to breakfast.

"What the board wants," he will say, shooting his cuffs, "is a visionary who will have the courage to take strong action."

"I see," I will murmur, swirling the dregs of espresso around the bottom of my cup, eying the way the perfect crema lines the exquisite porcelain. "And am I to understand that if my 'vision' doesn't meet with immediate public acclaim or if I can't restructure the future of the company AND hit immediate sales targets, you'll be having breakfast with someone else?"

How is _this_ board going to hire anyone capable of making bets if they fire Leo before his bets could pay off? Who would want a job working for people like this? If they didn't like his moves, they should have exercised governance and let him know what he could and couldn't do. If they were doing their jobs and they let him make these kinds of moves, they should support him and not throw him under a bus.

<comment><USER11> _Who would want a job working for people like this?_

How much does it pay? Assuming you are guaranteed a year's salary and that that salary is in the $millions range, it doesn't seem like a total waste of time.

I volunteer myself for this job.

<comment><USER12> [http://www.businessinsider.com/soon-to-be-canned-hp-ceo- apot...](http://www.businessinsider.com/soon-to-be-canned-hp-ceo-apotheker- will-get-94-million-for-his-lousy-year-of-work-2011-9)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I don't get it. Apotheker has already done the damage and realigned the company to his competency, enterprise software. How is firing him going to make things better?

<comment><USER14> Enterprise software may be Apotheker's core competency, but I don't think it has been proven this is HP's core competency.

Maybe they expected Apotheker to do more in building the enterprise before he started killing HP's consumer business.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Someone should snap up the PC division pronto ... in order to sell it back to HP at a 300% markup.

At this point, I'm sure the board would approve it.

</comment><comment><USER16> Apotheker needs to go. What's happening to HP is a real tragedy and he should be stopped before he destroys the company.

<comment><USER17> I'm afraid it is much too late. Cringely had an excellent discussion of why and how it is too late: <http://www.cringely.com/tag/bill-hewlett/>

<comment><USER18> Cringely had an even better call in February:

[http://www.cringely.com/2011/02/why-leo-apotheker-will-be- fi...](http://www.cringely.com/2011/02/why-leo-apotheker-will-be-fired-from- hewlett-packard/)

He can be a bit of a nutter sometimes but man was this spot on with the Whitman call and Apotheker's hail mary of a huge enterprise acquisition:

"Then there's Meg Whitman, who expected at this point to have resigned from the HP board to spend all her time running California as governor. But that didn't happen, so now what is she to do? You can only get so many pedicures. She'll eventually get around to hip-checking Apotheker and taking his job. Meg can knock back brewskies as well as any man and will probably fill those CEO shoes even better than Apotheker.

I know I am speaking early about this but that's why I get the big bucks.

There is only one chance Apotheker has to save his job and that's by buying his old company, SAP. "

<comment><USER19> It's downright scary how accurate that prediction is.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> It'll be interesting to see who will pick him up next. He's part of the CEO boys club right?

FYI - even though he "resigned" from within SAP in Sept 2010, everyone I've spoken to said he was politely asked to leave.

</comment><comment><USER21> The real question is whether the damage Apotheker did can be undone. I think it can, but the window is closing fast. By the time the engineering talent departs to greener pastures, it will be too late.

<comment><USER22> [http://allthingsd.com/20110919/layoffs-at-hps-palm- division/...](http://allthingsd.com/20110919/layoffs-at-hps-palm- division/?mod=huffpost)

<comment><USER21> They can always hire back those who didn't find better employment.

<comment><USER19> The ones that didn't find better employment are likely not the ones at the top of their game.

And seriously, after your employer pulls a stunt like that would you go back?

<comment><USER21> It depends on what the CEO got.

What bothers me is that it doesn't matter how incompetent Apotheker is and how suicidal his decisions at the helm of HP were, he'll leave it with a lot of money.

If we reward failure like this, how can we expect people to make the effort needed to succeed?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> It seems like the beginning of the end was the EDS integration. My guess is that the "Global IT Services" group is behind this "new" strategy (which is the same strategy IBM Global Services implemented more than a decade ago to great success). These companies consume their own young, and watching them hack themselves to pieces is not pretty.

<comment><USER20> Yup. The EDS integration was a mess. I've spoken to several HP employees about this. Just the mindless switching of e-mails and corporate structure was enough to get them disgruntled.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> F'ing pick Bartz.

<comment><USER25> That would be quite the promotion.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> You can oust them all you want now that he wrecked HP. Who brought him and let him do this should take a blame.

</comment><comment><USER27> HP and Yahoo have the worst board ever. Both of these companies should hire a young product-oriented visionary as their next CEO.

<comment><USER28> or they should merge into "Hahoo" ... yeah, i know this would solve nothing

<comment><USER29> No you're right they should merge and they have been planning to for months and after giving $10,000,000 to a marketing firm the board decided on YewPoo.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Former eBay CEO Meg Whitman Being Considered for HP CEO Job to Replace Apotheker.

[http://allthingsd.com/20110921/former-ebay-ceo-meg- whitman-b...](http://allthingsd.com/20110921/former-ebay-ceo-meg-whitman- being-considered-for-hp-ceo-job-to-replace-apotheker/)</comment>


Ask HN: Why has a black line appeared along the top? - <AUTHOR> It's irritating as I had a background colour of white, because it was nice and minimal, and now there's a harsh black line there, which doesn't appear to serve any purpose. Could we have a control panel switch to make the line optional? <comment><USER2> HN puts a black bar up for a while when someone notable dies, in this case Seymour Papert: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12201810](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12201810)

</comment><comment><USER3> something should be clickable so we can find out who died... like google doodle...

<comment><USER4> Usually, there is an article on who died on the front page, so you just have to look for it...

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> The black line appears whenever someone notable has died, please feel free to remove Seymour Papert's legacy with a line of css.</comment>


Developer Mac VM from 19.95 – RemoteMac.io - <AUTHOR> https://remotemac.io/ <comment><AUTHOR> Any questions? Feel free to ask!</comment>


Ask HN: What is the state of the art for conversational chatbots with memory? - <AUTHOR> Ask HN: What is the current state of the art for conversational chatbots with memory? Chatbots that can keep the context of the conversation as well. <comment><USER2> The last such chatbot I used was M-x Doctor. I haven't seen much improvement since then.

IMHO on specific limited matters like obtaining a permit, customer support etc. chatbots can go a long way by using traditional methods. I think if we can map the subject in a big decision tree and apply some good-old Bayesian probability, we can achieve a working conversational chatbot.</comment>


A brief history of the demoscene in China - <AUTHOR> https://www.pouet.net/topic.php?which=11867 <comment><USER2> Was this article written by gpt-2 or another deeptext engine? Can someone explain what a demoscene is?

<comment><USER3> A demo is a form of computer program that achieves something remarkable (usually around computer graphics) in a very small program size.

A demoscene would be the collection of people who create these programs, and who appreciate them.

There are strong elements of informal competition -- who can shave a few bytes off this routine? -- and there are formal competitions.

The Pouet.net faq gives a nice definition "Demos are the things that happen when people who are interested in computers sit down together and make something fun and spectacular and challenging to program. They work on it until it becomes a final work of art, then they pack up their sleeping bags and travel to a demoparty where they enter it to a competition. That's pretty much the gist of it."

Pouet.net is a good source of information about demos and has a large collection.</comment></comment>


Tiny Helicopter Piloted By Human Thoughts - <AUTHOR> http://www.livescience.com/37160-tiny-helicopter-piloted-by-human-thoughts.html

<comment><USER2> Downscaling the myriad of signals from your brain to 64 electrodes controlling four spacial dimensions seems tricky. I can see that making a fist may turn left, but what prevents any other random thought of being interpreted in the same way? I.e. how safe is a bike that turns left upon twisting the handlebars left, you may end up turning right with odds of 1:1000?

</comment><comment><USER3> Wired ran a story last year on a Chinese team that did the same thing already:

[http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/08/zhejiang- university-c...](http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/08/zhejiang-university- china-brain-controlled-quadcopter/)

<comment><USER4> they mentioned that in the article

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> And here is how to make one yourself: [http://www.instructables.com/id/Brain- Controlled-RC-Helicopt...](http://www.instructables.com/id/Brain-Controlled- RC-Helicopter/)

</comment><comment><USER4> How many directions can EEG control.

If this is just up and down based on your level of concentration, it is relatively useless. However, if it maps all 6 directions, it is pretty impressive.

<comment><USER6> I wonder how many "channels" can be worked out? 2? 20? 2,000? 2,000,000? Anyone have any background on this? It's fascinating to think of the complexity of a machine that could be controlled, when compared to the inherent limitations of pedals, wheels, switches and the like.

<comment><USER7> I have a background in these so-called brain computer interfaces. Typically, research know some of the properties of the EEG signal during specific tasks. Using signal processing and machine learning methods (and sometimes human training), these tasks can be recognized by 'decoding' the EEG.

Some of these signals are spontaneous (realizing an error has been made), some are produced by voluntarily executing some mental task. Currently, the amount of these 'channels' that is available is limited by 1) the amount of detectors that a lab is willing to build, and 2) how many tasks the user can simultaneously execute — which is typically very low. If you really want a number, I would settle for four as the current state of the art.

I have been working on a method to make problem 1) so easy it can be solved by laymen by just collecting examples of EEG during the task of interest. Now we are founding a startup to make this happen commercially :).

PS: I think this technology does not lend itself well for analogies with channels or buttons. Buttons were invented for a physical world. Brain- computer interfaces lend itself to interact with signals there are /not/ available in normal interaction (i.e. relevance, errors, intended movements etc).

<comment><USER6> Cool. How would such things work when it came to a prosthetic leg, for example? Suppose you built a robotic leg with, say, 80 or 100 actuators all working together. Could you train such a device to work on thought, mimicking a real leg, or is that out of the scope of what you're talking about?

<comment><USER7> Hmm, difficult question. In the US there are some groups doing very advanced work with implants to restore limb or prosthesis control, and there are some very impressive movies of monkey's controlling robotic arms. But invasive (i.e. with implants) work is not really my thing. And in these studies, often the monkey is the one doing the learning — it is not the device that adapts to the user.

For non-invase (i.e. EEG measured from outside the body) EEG I think that is still far off. The problem is that the signals are measured from a distance, and that it is very hard isolate signals from a precise region in the brain which is needed for accurate control.

I typically express the performance of these brain-computer interfaces in bits/minute. Keyboard gets roughly around 300 bits/min, brain-computer interfaces 2-20 bits/min. I would not know the bandwidth (and latency) requirements for reliable prosthesis control, but that would probably depend on intended use of the prosthesis. But then again, not all the actuators need to be controlled individually; maybe it is feasible with a smart controller and a forgiving application. And of course usability plays a major role; I cannot imagine controlling a prosthesis using the keyboard, although the information throughput might be sufficient :).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> It would be interesting to learn how they account for: "No, not that way, I was just kidding."

</comment><comment><USER9> Whatever you do, don't think about getting hit in the face by a helicopter...

<comment><USER10> It's a Parrot ArDrone quadrotor. The frame is made of foam which encloses the rotors and the motors automatically cut off if they sense the blades are obstructed.

Being hit by one is like being bumped with a bit of polystyrene.

<comment><USER11> He was being humorous.

(HN is so pedantic)</comment></comment></comment>


Go for it on fourth down? Ask Coach Watson - <AUTHOR> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/030711-sports-analytics-conference.html?hpg1=bn

<comment><USER2> I've often wondered what real impact it would have if an American football team decided, as a rule, to never punt and always go for it on 4th down. Current strategy highly favors punting, even in circumstances when that seems obviously non-optimal, and I'd like to know whether we can calculate specific scenarios for which it's better to punt or go for it. Right now the whole thing seems very fuzzy, and I think the biggest driver is a coaching staff's fear of failing by doing something different.

I've heard of people running simulations on Madden, for example, but I'm not sure if that offers the sort of hooks into the AI that it would take to alter strategy to that degree.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Most coaches would rather play it safe, especially where the risk of turning over the ball with favorable field position outweighs the benefit of another 4 downs...but what if the 4th down decision to punt or to 'go for it' could be crowdsourced? Meaning fans could weigh in with their decision from the stadium or from home - maybe this would help tip the scales in those questionable scenarios...</comment>


Top secrets about stress and health - <AUTHOR> https://www.knowablemagazine.org/article/health-disease/2018/top-10-secrets-about-stress-and-health <comment><USER2> "secrets" is a bit click-bait-y. Good stuff mind you. I think a lot of us get this, because stress is a fact of life and we now realise shielding kids from _all_ stress is bad, just as much as exposing kids to needless unfixable ongoing stress is bad. Kids need to learn how to deal with stress as a skill, for stress which is age-appropriate (like, how to handle being rejected by your peers, or having to share toys, or deal with "no")

The sex differentiation begs questions. What qualities in exposure and response to stress would make the functional difference? It feels like a variant of nature/nurture arguments which have really torrid downsides if you go there, If it turns out women react differently in acute and sustained stress situations I can guarantee somebody from the alt-right is going to use it to say women shouldn't be in the army, in jets, in control of their own reproductive futures...</comment>


AWS Webinars for November 2015 – Learn About New Services and Best Practices - <AUTHOR> https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/aws-webinars-for-november-2015-learn-about-new-services-and-best-practices/ <comment><USER2> I stop my aws service .</comment>