Vert.x – JVM Polyglot Alternative to Node.js - <AUTHOR> http://www.infoq.com/news/2012/05/vertx <comment><USER3> I'm really excited about this. While node-js is a great project, it still doesn't have the awesome instrumentation and tooling around it the JVM does. Additionally, real threading is damn nice, and the JVM definitely has that.

Combining this with languages like ruby, clojure, and scala seems like a definite win.

<comment><USER4> I'm not sure.

Async-by-default doesn't seem like a great model for programming the server- side part of most things that are done over HTTP. Three use cases jump out at me:

1\. Javascript doesn't have threads, but you want to write a usable HTTP server in it.

2\. Threads are scary.

3\. You want to make certain actions asynchronous over HTTP (i.e. client says "start", then server maybe says "done" later).

Now consider Clojure:

1\. Clojure has threads (on the JVM, at least) and one typically uses an existing Java web server when a web server is called for. Unlike Javascript when node.js came out, Clojure isn't lacking options for running or writing a web server.

2\. Clojure makes a lot of threaded operations pretty non-scary. Its native data structures are all immutable and it has constructs for concurrent state. These are not any harder to work with than the async/callback model. I find it more natural, but I'm used to Clojure so that could be bias.

3\. Async-when-desired is already easy in Clojure. Futures provide a very easy way to do stuff in a thread pool without blocking. Agents provide the same thing for state changes. It really is as easy as (future do-blocking-thing) and (send-off an-agent do-blocking-thing some-args).

I can imagine why I might want this sort of thing in certain languages in addition to Javascript, but why would I want it in Clojure?

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Finagle works fine. Thank you. Love it. But it does not take off. Why?

What all the JVM Node.js clones are missing and what Node.js sets apart are async libraries. There is no async (MySQL) JDBC driver for starters. If your IO drivers are not async, your async container is not very useful in real life.

<comment><USER6> This. The biggest difference is in the two cultures: blocking is anathema to the Node.js community - they will literally reject libraries or code that blocks because it destroys the entire model; the JVM community does not value non-blocking code - most of the core (JDBC, Networking in general, File system operations) is all written in a blocking style - the JVM community accepts this with the implicit assumption that threads will help assuage those issues.

Python, Ruby and Perl all have the same cultural tolerance for blocking code. The Node.js community has a complete lack of tolerance for blocking code.

I work with the JVM every day (Clojure) and wish it was different wrt the common use of non-blocking code, but it's going to be a long road to get there on the JVM.

Kyle

<comment><USER7> Java _Executor_ s combined with Guava's _ListenableFuture_ s easily turn any blocking operation to an asynchronous one.

Netty's entire model is asynchronous, and Java 7 now has _AsynchronousChannel_ s for IO which, I assume, Netty will make use of.

All in all, the JVM has a much more solid and performant foundation than anything Node can provide. The whole difference will come down to a programming style preference. I am not entirely sure why Vert.x adopted the Node style rather than the proven servlet container, as I'm sure both styles provide comparable performance. I guess each may shine under different loads/usage patterns (my guess is that Vert.x/Node can squeeze more performance from a single thread, but servlets are more scalable).

<comment><USER5> There is no async MySDQL JDBC driver. If you encapsulate it in an async layer, you need to keep a thread for the connection.

<comment><USER8> Maybe I am missing something, but how can you possibly have an async SQL driver without threads like this? This sounds like a case of your Node.js database driver hiding the exact same behaviour described here within C code.

<comment><USER9> If the wire protocol for the driver is published, then you can write a 100% async driver for it. I.e. no threads blocking, ever. In fact, I already did this for redis and vert.x (I will dig out the code for this some time).

If you are dealing with something where you don't know what the wire protocol is and you just have a blocking client library to play with (e.g. JDBC - <USER2> is, _by definition_ blocking - see the JDBC API), then you can't do much but to wrap the blocking api in an async facade and limit the number of threads that block at any one time. This is exactly what we do in vert.x. We accept the fact that many libraries in the Java world are blocking (e.g. JDBC) so we allow you to use them by running them on as a worker. This is one area where we differ from node.js. Node.js makes you run _everything_ on an event loop. This is just silly for some things, e.g. long running computations (remember the Fibonacci number affair?), or calling blocking apis. With vert.x you run "event-loopy" things on the event loop but you can run "non event-loopy" things on a worker. It's a hybrid.

<comment><USER5> A limited number of threads will not scale as real async wake-on-data connections will scale. If demand is higher than your thread pool, for the use case that you're web response builds on async backend requests, your site will be down.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Maybe I'm one of the weird ones, but I absolutely love types and would probably write everything in JS if it had typing similar to Java or C++. As it is, I'm using Java on Jetty instead for my current web application but would love to see a really solid event Node.js style typed framework. With that said, at this point I'm not sure I'd give up my Servlets, frameworks(like CometD) for doing WebSockets, and the other niceties that a true servlet container gives me. I can't wait to see where this goes though!

<comment><USER11> There's only two kinds of weirdos in this world. Those who love types, and those who don't.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Impressive. It's basically a kinda-sorta-rewrite of Node.js APIs on the JVM.

Looking through the docs, the main difference I see is that this is opting for a comparatively heavy-core approach which contrasts with Node's ruthless minimalism + third-party modules.

For example:

-file system access is convoluted with HTTP handling: req.response.sendFile()

-pieces of web framework functionality by default, but no full solution (RouteMatcher)

-integrated WebSockets with a novel but unconventional accept/reject API

-heavyweight SockJS integration

It will be interesting how all of his plays out. And I'm definitely interested in hearing evidence for claims such as

> a run-time with _real_ concurrency and unrivalled performance

<comment><USER13> > -file system access is convoluted with HTTP handling: > req.response.sendFile()

I haven't looked in to it, but just guessing this is probably so that it can do 0-copy sending of files (e.g. doesn't have to buffer/stream the contents through the JVM).

<comment><USER9> That's right. If you use the sendFile() method and you're on an OS that supports it, then the kernel will do the copying directly from file to socket for you.

You can also serve files in the more conventional "node.js-style" way (i.e. pump the buffers manually from file to socket) if you like. It's just slower than getting the kernel to do the work for you.

<comment><USER14> But you have to dedicate a thread to sendFile() (by nature).

<comment><USER14> (Response to jbooth, but for some reason I can't reply to that directly.)

The whole point of sendfile is to make one system call to send all the data in one stream to another, which in general may block. If you're polling and sending only small chunks at a time (whatever you can write without blocking), is it really that much of an advantage over read/write on the same poll? (If you're not doing that, then you have to block, and you have to dedicate a thread to it.)

<comment><USER15> If the socket you're writing to has been set to nonblocking, then sendfile exhibits the behavior I described, sending EAGAIN sometimes (check man sendfile). This means typically you want to put a selector in front of it and poll the selector, then send to any sockets that are writable, loop back and poll again.

It's still an advantage over read/write because you're getting the 0-copy behavior.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> The install pre-requisites recommends that Windows users install a linux VM - but I found the beta 11 version works directly.

<comment><USER9> Yes, vert.x should work directly on Windows. I shall update the wiki accordingly :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Frustrating to see a library like this be called "Next generation" when the code structure is a step backwards as far as I can tell. We have had green threads, and more than that green threads that can multiplex over multiple cores for a long time. Let's move on, people.

</comment><comment><USER14> From the article:

> InfoQ: What about running a real-time app on the JVM vs. on Node.js, with > respect to debugging, monitoring and operations?

> Answer: I'd say monitoring and operations are really the concern of the > environment in which you deploy vert.x than vert.x itself. e.g. if you > deployed vert.x in a cloud, the cloud provider would probably provide > monitoring for you.

This makes it sound like a toy. How can I deploy something to production when I have no way of seeing what it's doing? How is a cloud provider supposed to provide debugging/introspection for JavaScript running on the JVM (by means of a brand new facility)?

</comment><comment><USER18> also look at <http://ringojs.org>

<comment><USER19> also look at <http://vibed.org/>

<comment><USER20> also look at Apache AWF <http://incubator.apache.org/awf/>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Looks like a user-friendly interface to Netty and Hazelcast with some special sauce sprinkled in. I love Netty, and Hazelcast is, er, interesting and hopefully getting more reliable. Should be fun.

<comment><USER22> Netty and Hazelcast are amazing pieces of software. I've used them with good success. Hazelcast is another unique enabler that makes the impossible or difficult to do trivial.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> This is not anything new, this funcionality is part of Apache Cocoon since almost 10 years and is called Flowscript: <http://cocoon.apache.org/2.1/userdocs/flow/api.html>

You can use and create Java objects from your JavaScript.

</comment><comment><USER24> There are other alternatives for polyglot JVM goodness, for example this based on Restlet:

<http://threecrickets.com/prudence/>

Plus a whole framework based around MongoDB:

<http://threecrickets.com/savory/>

</comment><comment><USER25> Trying to install this on Ubuntu. Is it me or is the "binary" download link [1] not really a binary download link?

[1] <https://github.com/purplefox/vert.x/downloads>

<comment><USER9> Works fine here:

<https://gist.github.com/2594983>

Are you sure you're not looking at the github tags, rather than the downloads?

<comment><USER25> OK. I think I know what I did wrong. On the Github (download link on the website) I click "Download .tar.gz" assuming I was getting the latest version. I might got the latest version but it seems to be the latest of source. I should have chosen one of the packages.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> I was hoping it provided an alternative ideology to node.js in the form of fibers.

<comment><USER9> Fibers (or equivalent constructs) aren't supported by all the languages that Vert.x supports (e.g. Java) so we can't really support something like that until we can do it in all the langs.

I know Fibers/Green threads are all the rage right now, and it is certainly something to keep an eye on, but I am not entirely convinced that roll your own threading is going to be any more performant than what the kernel can do.

If we can find a way of implementing fibers efficiently, that supports millions of fibers on a single JVM instance, I would be interested.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27>
        req.response.sendFile('webroot/' + file);

!!!!

I'll have file='../../secret.txt' thanks

<comment><USER9> Yes, of course in a real web server you'd make sure you do the checks ;) The documentation actually mentions this point explicitly :)

<comment><USER27> I'm pretty sure I don't want to use a web server by people who think a 5 line demo that gives unrestricted access to the hosts file system is the best way to show off it's capabilities. Sorry, but that's just stupid.

<comment><USER9> [http://vertx.io/core_manual_js.html#serving-files- directly-d...](http://vertx.io/core_manual_js.html#serving-files-directly- disk)

<comment><USER27> I'm unsure what you're trying to say there. Yes, I am aware that it's possible to serve files without exposing your whole file system. Did you think that was something that might be in doubt?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> This is most welcome. Hope they continue to support this effort. We need more light weight approaches in established languages like Java.

</comment><comment><USER29> I went through their tutorial and it seems very enticing. hopefully it'll get some real traction and broader support.

</comment><comment><USER30> i wonder how is it compared to servlet container (e.g. tomcay and servlet spec?

<comment><USER31> it ignores those, for good reason

<comment><USER32> which is?

<comment><USER33> Every concurrent request gets its own thread, whereas this seems to be one thread per core.

Also, the servlet API is crazy, partly because of all its baggage. There seems to be a lot of exploration around what the right API is right now, but its pretty clear the world wants something new.

<comment><USER7> > Every concurrent request gets its own thread, whereas this seems to be one > thread per core.

No. Servlet containers use a thread pool (that grows and shrinks dynamically).

<comment><USER34> There's really no conflict between the statement, "every request gets it's own thread" and the use of thread pools.

The point is that a given request in a servlet container is handled in it's own thread. That thread will probably come from a pool and be reused to handle another request of course, but that's sort of immaterial.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> So it's more like Twisted (a library) than Node (a runtime + a library).

<comment><USER36> Node is more like a library than a runtime. Its runtime is V8. The node libs could be ported to another JavaScript engine such as jsc, narwhal, or ringo.

> Node.js consists of Google's V8 JavaScript engine plus several built-in > libraries.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nodejs>

<comment><USER35> Node ships with both runtime and async library, unlike Twisted, which doesn't ship Python.</comment></comment></comment>


Preventing visceral racism - <AUTHOR> http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=5001 <comment><USER2> This article is purestrain Eric Raymond at his Eric Raymondest.

<comment><AUTHOR> And one of the best articles I've read on the topic of racism.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> 2013.</comment>


Show HN: Focus Window – macOS tool to keep you focused - <AUTHOR> https://focuswindow.app/ <comment><AUTHOR> Hi fellow Hackers,

I often tend to procrastinate when I begin working on a task thus preventing me from finishing my tasks faster. I know it is very hard to focus at times especially with all of the distracting tools such as Facebook, YouTube, email, Slack etc.

I have built a tool called Focus Window which allows you to focus on a single application at a time. This tool has improved my workflow tremendously for 2018.

I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.</comment>


Ask HN: Why do you exist? What is your biggest goal? - <AUTHOR>

I am curious to know why you choose to exist and where you want to ultimately go in life, in immaterial and material terms. You need both to live a fulfilling life. What made you choose this path? How do you keep moving forward?<p>I exist to understand the seen and unseen, to apply it to serve all organisms of Earth, and to one day have a beautiful family of my own. I am 20 right now. I have a long way to go but, I am literally having the time of my life trying to do the impossible and get the girl at the same time. <comment><USER2> I want to alter the world for good in some small but tangible way. Right now I'm trying to do this through creating better technology.

</comment><comment><USER3> It's all totally pointless. So might as well try to change the world and such.

Like Kirk said right before he finally died (about doing something hard that made a difference): "It was fun".</comment>


IT Workers Share Idiotic Things Non-Techies Have Told Them - <AUTHOR> https://upvoted.com/2015/12/15/it-workers-share-the-most-idiotic-things-non-techies-have-told-them/ <comment><USER2> Sadly I have had the unfortunate experience of dealing with most of these scenarios. I don't even work in IT..</comment>


Mobile Action releases free app store optimization and intelligence toolbox - <AUTHOR> http://venturebeat.com/2014/12/08/mobile-action-releases-free-app-store-optimization-and-intelligence-toolbox/#

<comment><USER2> Keen to check this out! I've been using App Annie and Sensor Tower to look at competitors and keywords.

Btw I met you at Runway co-working space in SF earlier this year when I visited. You might have been working from there.</comment>


What Happens When Doctors Only Take Cash (2017) - <AUTHOR> http://time.com/4649914/why-the-doctor-takes-only-cash/ <comment><USER2> My local mechanic is required by law to tell me how much something is going to cost me before they start work. Why is my doctor not held to the same standard. Ever tried calling a provider to find out how much something is going to cost?

Sounds like the medical industry had better lobbyists.

<comment><USER3> Because the cost is unknown until treatment is over.

Also, funny comparison, try to make it with software engineering.

<comment><USER4> > Because the cost is unknown until treatment is over.

If you held a mechanic to the same standard, they "wouldn't know the cost" either.

Maybe the doctor's office doesn't know your out-of-pocket cost, but they generally know (within a reasonable rage) how much they will bill the insurance company for. Perhaps an underlying problem is that a health insurance-medical pratcice contract prevents the medical practice from revealing the negotiated+contracted costs.

In the case that the nurse/doctor/surgeon decides to change the prognosis/prescription during the visit, there are provisions for that type of action with auto mechanics, too.

<comment><USER3> > Maybe the doctor's office doesn't know your out-of-pocket cost, but they > generally know (within a reasonable rage) how much they will bill the > insurance company for

We don't know either. In fact you have to build infrastructure just to know estimates, which will be cleared months later, and a result might be less or more price. It is not a transparent system for the provider either, specially when you are a small one.

> In the case that the nurse/doctor/surgeon decides to change the > prognosis/prescription during the visit, there are provisions for that type > of action with auto mechanics, too.

I honestly think the problem is fee-as-service, where you have to make very complex calculations based on how each thing is claimed. It would be very different if work was provided per-hour basis, or even per-result (complex, but market is leaning towards that right now).

Figure a software engineer consultant charging differently per language, platform, stack version, LOC, cost of materials etc each time he works an hour. IF you are an engineer try to picture how that works.

1- You diagnose a problem to solve

2- You look into a list of 70k items to look for the corresponding code to that problem (C10.023 Turn iterative code to recursion)

3- You now write what you are going to do to solve it

4- Now you have to pick a billing code (CPT code 94102 -> Iterative on GC language to functional programming language ). You estimate 94102 will pay 50$, but are tempted to put 94103 which will pay 75$, from Iteractive non GC, because actually your custom language settings have GC turned off, but are unsure if the insurance company will believe or care

5- The client asks you how much will charge, considering he is personally liable for 20% of it because the actual client doesn't re-imburse everything.

That was a single visit. Doctors get 12-16 a day.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I've been wondering for a while now why health insurance companies exist at all. They introduce a massive bureaucracy and massive costs and provide very little value.

They evolved from a reasonable idea into a monster that just drains our system and do not provide enough value to justify their existence in my opinion.

<comment><USER3> And yet, health insurance companies have very low profit margins, the lowest amongst the insurance companies. So who is getting all the money?

<comment><USER6> The high health care cost is due to a lot of unnecessary procedures being performed. This can happen in two ways.

First, there are a lot of tests and procedures ordered by doctors that only have some, but very small, benefits for the patients [0]. Doctors are incentivized to do this because each procedure has a set price (negotiated with insurance companies and Medicare / Medicaid) and the only way to get more revenue is to perform more procedures.

Second, patients themselves order a lot of procedures out of fear. Arguably, they can be better off without these procedures. A prime example is end-of- life care, where patients and families often want to "do everything possible" even if those intrusive medical procedures bring nothing but a few weeks of miserable living [1]. Those end-of-life procedures are extremely expensive while having questionable benefits in terms of bringing a "happy" life rather than just a longer life [2].

[0] [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/unnecessary- tests...](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/unnecessary-tests-and- treatment-explain-why-health-care-costs-so-much/)

[1] [https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/03/05/286126451/livi...](https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/03/05/286126451/living- wills-are-the-talk-of-the-town-in-la-crosse-wis)

[2] [https://www.amazon.com/Being-Mortal-Illness-Medicine- Matters...](https://www.amazon.com/Being-Mortal-Illness-Medicine- Matters/dp/1250081246)

<comment><USER7> Third, doctors order unnecessary but "by-the-book" tests to document things that they already know in case of a malpractice lawsuit.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_medicine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_medicine)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> From my german perspective, every assumption in this article looks quite gross and barbaric.

Here, everyone is insured. If you break your arm, you get it fixed. If you get cancer, you get therapy. If you get the flu, you get a prescription. The overall cost is paid by the entire population, through the insurance system.

For what is the alternative? Maybe the overall monetary cost would be lower if everyone had to watch the price, but you would pay for it in human lives and suffering, when people have to decide between dying of illness or dying of hunger, or between lifelong pain or clothes for their children.

<comment><USER9> From my American perspective, the national health systems of other countries have their own barbarities. There is a reason why so many people from other countries come to the US for health care.

When I was looking to have a very serious health problem taken care of, I heavily researched getting the procedure done anywhere in the world. It was pretty obvious that all the best places to have it done were in the US. The facility we went to had quite a few patients from other countries - and we're not talking 3rd world countries. Many of these patients had already had care in their own country, where the care was botched or insufficient. They were coming to the US to get it done right. On their own dime.

Not sure how Germany is, but average wait time for an MRI in Canada is over 10 weeks.

[https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/waiting-your-turn- wa...](https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/waiting-your-turn-wait-times- for-health-care-in-canada-2015-report)

In the US you can go right into an MRI on the same day. This is key to getting an appropriate standard of care.

In Canada, average wait time for an ultrasound is 4 weeks. Our pets get better care in the US. I really don't see how people tolerate such things.

<comment><USER10> In northern Italy've gone "right into" an MRI with the public health system twice (once when I had a migraine aurea of incredible intensity with visual hallucinations and disorientation) and another time when I had smashed up my ankle so badly they needed to figure out the effect on the soft tissues after a bunch of X-rays in the broken bones. There's a lot of myths about queues and waiting times (in my experience at least). When I was in the UK (of which I am also a citizen) while studying in very early 2000s I had slightly longer waiting times for specialist visits (allergy specialist, and then a dermatologist) but certainly not the kind of waiting times I hear tossed around now (on the order of a couple of weeks, tops).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I think it's an important reminder that markets need some level of transparency to function. And perhaps that relatively simple regulation (like a requirement to publish the prices -- or in other areas the first sale doctrine) might be the best regulation where feasible....

<comment><USER12> Hospital chargemasters are required to be public in California [https://www.oshpd.ca.gov/Chargemaster/](https://www.oshpd.ca.gov/Chargemaster/)

Unfortunately,

1) The price agreements between hospitals and insurance companies are confidential, as both sides compete in their own industry and don't want to reveal their hands.

2) Consequently, chargemasters post some ridiculous price per procedure (with discounts available, naturally, to insurance carriers, who are the bulk buyers in the business). Which makes chargemasters similar to list prices you see at most retail establishments - only schmucks are expected to pay those.

<comment><USER13> There is an Adam Ruins Everything episode about that. Basically hospitals were reasonable, then insurance companies came along and brought extra business to hospitals. For that, they felt they deserved a cut. Since the hospitals were mostly non-profits, or low profit, they didn't have anywhere to cut, so in response they raised their rates to provide a cut. There is more to it, but that's the origin of the charge master.

Of course regulation requires administrative staff which costs more money as well.

Malpractice is ungodly expensive too.

Other costs are the requirement that hospitals treat the uninsured. I was listening to NPR when the ACA debate was going on, and the CEO of a local large hospital said about 25% of his costs are due to treating people who couldn't pay. That's a huge number.

<comment><USER14> The American Hospital Association tracks uncompensated care (bad debt and forgiven bills):

[https://www.aha.org/system/files/2018-01/2017-uncompensated-...](https://www.aha.org/system/files/2018-01/2017-uncompensated- care-factsheet.pdf)

It's around $40 billion per year in recent years (for all US hospitals). With hospital spending around $1 trillion, it's 4 or 5% across the industry. There are of course individual hospitals that face higher costs.

<comment><USER13> Thanks. I must have remembered it wrong. Even with a variance, 25% seems way to high.

<comment><USER14> Could be related to costs vs charges.

Would still be lots of net income though (for the uncompensated care to represent a larger fraction of total costs).

Could also be including Medicare and Medicaid (which the numbers in that pdf explicitly exclude). They pay, but not always enough to cover the cost of care delivered.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Need surgery? Here are the prices:

[https://surgerycenterok.com/pricing/](https://surgerycenterok.com/pricing/)

<comment><USER15> A price list like this should be mandatory for all doctors.

<comment><USER16> Should software developers and lawyers also have upfront pricelists for all services?

I will gladly develop a cure for cancer, for the low, low price of $20B.

<comment><USER15> When I hire a software developer or a lawyer I get an upfront price list. Would you hire a lawyer that either would not give you any price or told you "it costs between 2000 and 60000 depending on your insurance and some other factors we won't tell you"?

<comment><USER16> The difference is law, software, car repair, home remodels, etc, are all man- made systems. Medicine is dealing with a system that I think we can all agree man did not make.

<comment><USER15> A hospital is a very man made system and most tools they use are man made too. Most procedures are pretty standard too. There is no reason that they can't publish numbers other than that it's beneficial to them to keep them secret. Insurances have these numbers too but they don't want to publish them either. Everybody knows the pricing, the only participant being kept in the dark is the customer, aka patient who eventually has to pay.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> > Setting and casting a basic leg

Oh good God, I'd never thought of this... I've broken more bones than I care to count (wrist, triple torsion fracture in my ankle, two ribs twice, shoulder) and I've never paid a penny (here in Italy). I'd never even remotely contemplated it might be a cost beyond the annoyance.

<comment><USER17> How does one break so many bones?

<comment><USER18> Free healthcare is a great incentive to be careless with your body. /s*

edit: I was being sarcastic

<comment><USER10> I see you're being voted down but you might actually be right... if I feared that kind of monetary consequence I'd never walk out the door.

<comment><USER19> I walk around fully aware I am one slip and fall away from inescapable, permanent financial ruin. I have insurance, but my $8,000 deductible means if I break my leg falling down a flight of stairs, I'll be in bankruptcy court once the cast comes off.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Such a novel concept that when we seek to provide health care, we actually pay for care instead of insurance.

Rand Paul made a similar case last summer that if the government is seeking to to provide care for people who can't afford it, it should put the money into care instead of into insurance companies. It would be much cheaper an much more effective.

Note that if you go to the highlighted facility, you can still contact your insurance to pay for the procedure - its just that the doctors in this case are not doing that for you. I've never understood why doctors involved themselves in dealing with insurance companies. It's the patient's company, so the patient should deal with it. If more doctors did this, patients would realize that the real problem is the insurance companies. Market forces might even cause insurance companies to provide better service.

</comment><comment><USER20> I like that they take responsibility for complications. Instead of shoddy work being an opportunity for future revenue like with the rest of the system, it's an actual disincentive.

</comment><comment><USER21> _Cash payments don 't count toward a patient's (insurance) deductible_

This seems like a problem. How is this not an anti-trust violation? In order to benefit from the insurance contact you purchased, you must use a provider who will submit to an insurance company's capricious payment system.

<comment><USER22> This is probably a simplification. Normally if you use an out-of-network provider, the cost counts against your out-of-network deductible, which is significantly higher than your in-network deductible. So it may well be that his insurance would count this against his out-of-network deductible, which is so high that he would never reach it anyway.

<comment><USER23> No. In order to utilize your insurance plan's out-of-network services, the insurance company has to be in the loop. A cash-based system completely circumvents insurance.

<comment><USER22> Right, you certainly have to loop in your insurance company, by filing a claim (which they won't pay, obviously).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> I've seen similar trends in post-Communist EU countries. We are importing the worst patterns from US. Public health insurance is most of the times miserable.

<comment><USER25> > Public health insurance is most of the times miserable.

I expect that your statement is about public health insurance _in post- communist EU countries_ (I have no experience of this). Public health insurance in Australasia is very good (though has arguably been better in the past in some senses and could obviously be better in the future).

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> What about making a website people can enter the price of past procedures, their insurance plan and note where it was done. Then you could help people comparison shop before hand by showing typical prices.

<comment> wu-ikkyu That seems interesting. Such a site would be prone to fake entries/astroturfing though. I wonder how that could be avoided?

<comment><USER26> Just ask for a receipt to be scanned in.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> _Since their surgery center does not employ the army of administrators that is often required to haggle with insurers and follow up on Medicare reimbursements, their overhead is smaller._

This is part of why Obamacare is fundamentally broken. Using the existing commercial insurance system to try to provide universal coverage injects unavoidable extra expense and complications.

Really happy to hear about the trend the article is describing.

<comment><USER16> This may work for chronic conditions and non-lethal problems, but creates a problem when you're talking about urgent care: stroke has a 2-3 hour window for administration of TPA. The goal for intervention in a myocardial infarction is under an hour, same for trauma, where people may be in the ICU for days to months (a lot of months). Who covers those costs?

<comment><USER28> Every insurance company in the United States, along with Medicare and Medicaid, _already has_ a fixed amount that they will pay the caregiver for administration of TPA. I guarantee it, even without bothering to look up what TPA is. If the procedure is covered by insurance _at all_ , there's a pre- approved reimbursement amount for doing it.

Outside of an expensive, time-consuming, and almost always useless appeals process, that flat rate is all the doctors are going to get. They can take it or leave it.

There are medical codes for every imaginable procedure, and essentially every medical code has a fixed, preset amount that the insurance company will pay to have it performed.

<comment><USER16> I get that. Do you know the history of the CMS billing schedules? They called Dr. DeBakey and he sent a couple of his fellows to Washinton and they priced out every single thing. That has been revised, amended, and addended many times since, but yes, I'm well aware.

The point is that there's no shopping around in the emergent cases. You can't say "Well, in my incapacitated, mid-stroke state, let me check the menu of the 3 nearest hospitals for the cost of a stroke admission." It ranges from "nothing to do here, looks like it was a TIA, patient demands to go home" to "We need to take your wife to the OR for an emergent craniotomy and clot removal to decompress the foramen of Monroe. Right now. Because minutes are brain cells."

<comment><USER28> "The point is that there's no shopping around in the emergent cases."

Why would "shopping around" matter if the amount the doctor was going to get paid was fixed (and published) in advance?

I don't understand why you think that pre-published fees would make this (alleged) problem worse rather than better.

In the (unlikely, IMO) scenario where one hospital really was massively more expensive than another, patients will almost certainly know that in advance, just as they know that they're going to pay more at Wolfgang Puck's restaurant than McDonalds.

<comment><USER16> The rates generally are published, via CMS. This whole thing is barking up the wrong tree. The rates are one thing. Coding is the real art. Making sure you captured every RVU, CPT code (do you have any idea how many arterial lines might be started on a patient dying of diffuse intravascular coagulopathy?) How do you capture all that?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> > If unforeseen complications arose during or after the procedure, the Surgery > Center would cover those costs

Doesnt this expose the facility to additional risk? Overall healthy patients and those with sufficient insurance coverage do not have a reason to visit this place, while those without insurance coverage (who I assume are likely to be less healthy and hence have more complications) are more likely to visit the place.

If instead they accepted insurance, and charged people based on complications, they would have a more average risk profile while being able to maintain higher profits, and keeping a USP of transparent charges (which would apply to non insurance patients w/o complications)

</comment><comment><USER30> Interestingly, all-inclusive medical packages have been very common in India since last 10-15 years.

</comment><comment><USER31> We could adopt two simple precepts from this example of private enterprise. transparency and consistency. If this were applied to our healthcare system pricing would fix a lot.

</comment><comment><USER32> "If unforeseen complications arose during or after the procedure, the Surgery Center would cover those costs. Villa wouldn't see another bill."

So there is a sort of built-in insurance to this system. Those who don't have any complications are paying more to cover patients who do. They're simply passing the first line of medical costs (known, anticipated, where a price estimate can be created) on to consumers while letting insurance handle un- estimatable medical emergency type situations.

</comment><comment><USER33> Man you guys have to be busy beavers for this. Cheers frome europe.

</comment><comment><USER34> That would be a problem, I can't even withdraw more than €1000 from an ATM. Most of my transactions are plastic or digital, like 99%.

<comment><USER35> "Cash" here means 'not wacky insurance schemes'. Their FAQ says

"To keep our prices as low as possible, cashier's checks or cash are the methods preferred. Credit cards are accepted on a case by case basis. Human resource departments or divisions of self-insured companies can make other arrangements if necessary."

(They also have a partnership with some sort of personal loan/financing company which presumably would take credit cards or bank transfers.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> You son has broken his arm. The doctors in your town will only take cash.

One of the doctors charges $50 to set the broken arm. The other doctor charges $500.

Which one are you going to take your child to? Most likely, the $500 one. Because going to the bargain basement doctor is not something you do when dealing with medical issues if there is absolutely any way to afford it. It creates what I call 'reverse capitalism.' You can only draw more customers by charging the highest price in the area.

If your customers stop even being the ones footing the bill, it accelerates to a patently insane level. That makes footing peoples insurance bills a ludicrous and idiotic business to get into. Unless, of course, you've got protection from the government or special considerations where antitrust laws do not apply to you so you can engage in price-fixing, intimidation, and other tactics.

Made to compete fairly, medical insurance companies would be out of business overnight because it's a downright stupid business to begin with.

<comment><USER3> I don't think thats true. There is a price bias, but thats not the only quality signal for medical care. There's reviews, facility and installations, reputation, etc.

People are price sensitive regarding their own life and their children's. You can find how much they value things with "revealed preferences", an economists principle.

Its a bigger problem that as a consumer you don't have to or face the decision of choosing by price, eliminating marketing mechanics from healthcare.

<comment><USER37> "Little Billy - would you mind biting on a bullet for an hour while I check Yelp and online reviews to find the cheapest doctor to set your broken arm."

...said no one ever.

<comment><USER3> "No time to look for the closest hospital, we need to drive straight to the one I know thats 1h away, lets go".

Also, most care is not urgent care.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Spear Phishing using Facebook activity - <AUTHOR> http://jonathanhstrauss.com/blog/2013/05/spear-phishing-using-facebook-activity/#awesm=570a39088891f4a8024bb68c0abefbff

<comment><USER2> A commenter on the post just suggested auditing all the apps/sites with which you've used FB auth. This hadn't occurred to me, and frankly is even more scary IMHO. In theory, anyone who sufficiently compromises one of those apps would be able to access any of the permissions you've given the app.

<comment><USER3> Sound advice. If you used someone's side project on Hn 3 years ago, and they e.g. didn't patch Rails in January, they're rooted now, so your Facebook account is effectively rooted to the limit of all privileges you've granted. (That assumes you trust the Facebook security model for app permissions.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I've been getting very similar emails recently, but assumed that one of my friend's Gmail accounts had been compromised. However, this makes a lot more sense. The fake emails have been sent from the names of people who are most active on my facebook posts.

<comment><USER5> I've seen the same phenomenon. It's been maybe 3 or 4 names, including one person with whom my only online interaction has been through FaceBook. They're from very different circles of friends, so they wouldn't have interaction with each other except potentially through me.

All of the names were people I interacted with quite a bit one particular week, maybe back in August or so. I suspect we all ended up commenting on or liking the same item, probably something that had been initially posted with a privacy setting of "everybody", which would've showed up in my feed in response to one friend's activity and then my other friends' feed in response to my activity.

If only I could identify what post, activity, or item all of those friends had in common...</comment></comment>


Do You Know a High-Achieving Student Kept From College Because of Money? - <AUTHOR> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/26/AR2009072602301.html

<comment><USER2> No, but I know many medium-achieving students who could have contributed a lot more productively to society if they'd had the chance and the money to attend college.

By focusing on only the high-end (and the low-end) we ignore what makes America a great place to be.

The gifted will find a way. The untalented and those lacking willpower usually won't, no matter what.

Everyone else needs a little help, help that actually matters.

<comment><AUTHOR> I wonder how much students who are poor look in high school like medium- achieving students when they would really be high-achieving students if they were in a more resource-rich environment.

See

<http://www.ams.org/notices/200502/fea-kenschaft.pdf>

for an example of what I am concerned about.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> _"a great many gifted and motivated young people are excluded from college for no other reason than their ability to pay, and we have failed seriously to confront the problem."_

I can only think of two people who came somehwat closeclose to this description, and they were weighed down by family obligations, not paying for college per se.

I almost find it hard to believe in America that someone would be kept out of college by the price of admission. Many grants and scholarships are need based or partially need based, not to mention that many of the rest are achievement based so the "High Achieving Student" discussed here would qualify for those as well. Also, student loans are generally not hard to get.

Finally, if they could not finance it in other ways this "High Achieving" student they could join the military. If you are active duty, 100% of tuition is paid and your salary will easily handle books. The Gaurd programs differ by state, but they pay most tuition. Also, if you accept a commitment ROTC will pay.

If you need to support a family (such as having a child while still in high school or being the primary caregiver for a sister after your parents died) that might be a nearly insurmountable barrier, but aside from that I find it hard to believe a "High Achiever" would not be able to get into college for purely financial reasons.

<comment><AUTHOR> _I can only think of two people who came somewhat close to this description_

I can think of quite a few of my contemporaries, and some young people a little older than my oldest child, who had to trade down in quality of university among all universities who admitted them because they couldn't afford to go to the best university at which they were admitted.

I can't think of examples of exactly what Jay Mathews is asking about, but I think he biases his question by assuming that poor students with low grades in high school are not "motivated." They may simply be disliked by their teachers.

<comment><USER3> I can understand that. I know many people who decided to go a step down in prestige (quality of university education can be tricky, but I think most people will agree on the level of prestige of an institution at least roughly), my wife and I both included.

But not being able to afford an elite private school is very different from not being able to afford a university education.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I dropped out of MIT due to money -- I'd received no financial aid and no other assistance, and couldn't get loans (since I was under 18); I tried working and consulting to pay, but ended up about $50k behind in "late tuition payments". I had turned down full honors scholarships to other schools, mainly because I really wanted to go to MIT.

Luckily this was 1998 and I left to go start a crypto ecash startup in the Caribbean, first of several startups. I think 1 semester in a top school, then dropping out to do startups, might be a better education than enduring 4 years without really doing anything special. That said, I wish I had been able to complete a degree; I am 30 now and sometimes think about ether going back full-time to MIT, or doing a UK MBA, or taking classes at another school and then either finishing there or returning to MIT.

In retrospect, ROTC might have been the best option, but there were a few specific reasons I didn't do it at the time.

</comment><comment><USER5> Not directly. There are situations (at every top-notch institution, I think) of sorts that all the candidates are excellent achievers, no matter what measure.

Then there is a problem how to differentiate between them further.

This is where the concept of "fit" comes in, where the recruiting board tries to enrich the "social experince" of this particular microsociety. For example, thinking is, a group of physics graduate students living in the dorms may enjoy a little improvised cello performance by one of them. This happened to my friend. He had a very strong application but, no doubt equally strong, cellist was choosen. My friend had to work part time for the greatest part of the year to afford undergraduate studies at all and it never occured to him that a cello, or any other extracurricular activity (for which he wouldn't have time anyways) was that important to be a well-rounded physicist.

<comment><USER5> Sorry for this grammar. Hurts my own forgiving eyes.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Money considerations may influence kids long before we bother to measure whether they're high-achieving or not.

</comment><comment><USER7> This organization seeks to help just these kind -- poor but brilliant students.

<http://ffe.org/programs/eligibility-criteria.php>

</comment><comment><USER8> Yes, but they were not in a public school, but rather a small private school. Mostly A's with a couple B's. Not too tragic though, as he has a better job now with more room for growth than most of his peers that did get their BA's.

It's all about drive. If you have drive, you will succeed regardless of you formal education. A motivated person will not remain ignorant, even though they may not have the certification to prove it.</comment>


The salt controversy - <AUTHOR> http://www.nasw.org/awards/1999/99Taubesarticle1.htm

<comment><USER2> Read the article even if 'salt' doesn't seem exciting. One can see why this article won the 1999 award from the National Association of Science Writers. It does a tremendous job of explaining a complex controversy.

For me, the parallel with global warming is uncanny: locked in camps looking at the same data, coming to opposite conclusions, and accusing the other of being blinded by bias.

Searching now for other things Gary Taubes has written...

<comment><USER3> Taubes has definitely made a name for himself researching and reporting on bad science. After the parent article, he set his sights on nutrition in general:

"What if It's All Been a Big Fat Lie?" ([http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magazine/what-if-it-s- all-...](http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magazine/what-if-it-s-all-been-a- big-fat-lie.html?pagewanted=all)) and "Good Calories, Bad Calories"

Before all of that that, he wrote "Bad Science: The Short Life and Weird Times of Cold Fusion" and "Nobel Dreams: Power, Deceit and the Ultimate Experiment"

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Science is edging ever closer to stating the basic truth: The perfect food is pork rinds. Nothing but fat and salt.

<comment><USER5> Woody Allen might have been on to something. Sleeper: <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070707/quotes?qt0231370>

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Particularly interesting article in light of the recent attempts to ban salt in restaurants in NYC ([http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/11/new-york- restaur...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/11/new-york-restaurants- salt-ban)). The more government gets involved with health care, the more attempts we'll have by fascists like the Democrat Ortiz to control people. Perhaps the state should focus on avoiding bankruptcy, rather than limiting the salt intake of adults.

<comment><USER7> Not NYC, the whole State of New York.

 _attempts to ban salt in restaurants_ – not true, this stupid bill which will never see a vote or chance of passage, only bans the cooks from adding it. It would put the salt under control of the diner at the table.

 _limiting the salt intake of adults_ – Nothing in this asinine bill to limit the salt intake of adults. It simply puts the adults in control of it.

It's a dumb enough bill without make it sound dumber. It was read once and has been referred to the Committee on Health where it will presumably die, probably to polite laughter.

(I am a tiny bit sympathetic toward people whose doctors have told them to lower sodium or die and are wondering if that bowl of chicken noodle soup will kill them. But I want my food cooked in salt.)

<comment><USER8> "not true, this stupid bill which will never see a vote or chance of passage, only bans the cooks from adding it. It would put the salt under control of the diner at the table."

Do you even cook? Salt added while cooking brings out the taste of food. Salt added afterwards makes food taste salty. I guess with soups this wouldn't occur, but otherwise it makes a big difference.

There's actually no evidence that eliminating salt lowers blood pressure more than a tiny amount. Sea salt, with its trace minerals, actually lowers blood pressure when it's added to the diet. It's much better for you for other reasons too, well worth the extra money.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> If I drink salt solution this might have very little effect on my blood pressure.

However, if I add salt to my pasta bake it might make it tastier.

I might therefore eat more of it and raise my blood pressure this way.

</comment><comment><USER10> This article is eleven years old. Has the scientific concensus moved on since then?

</comment><comment><USER11> FWIW:

I have found that good quality sea salt is critical my personal health. (I have a genetic disorder and have used food as a primary means to get healthy.) My kids and I refer to table salt as "industrial salt". We buy it to scrub mold from the sink and similar household uses. We don't consider edible anymore. A good quality sea salt has a high percentage of other minerals, not just sodium chloride. I have found the presence of those other minerals changes the way my body relates to sodium chloride and has, over time, changed the way my body works, very much for the better.</comment>


Victorian Goldfish Globes and Goldfish Hawkers - <AUTHOR> https://mimimatthews.com/2016/06/09/victorian-goldfish-globes-and-goldfish-hawkers/ <comment><USER2> I guess it's good for the business to perpetuate the myth that you don't need to feed the goldfish...

</comment><comment><USER3> Fidget spinners: theraputic for ADHD and other assorted modern phrenological maladies.</comment>


Show HN: Library of 537 wireframe blocks for Sketch, Figma - <AUTHOR> https://source.forpeople.studio/ <comment><USER2> looks very unfinished to me, am i missing something?

<comment><USER3> It looks unfinished because it's meant for you to apply your own styles to it. It's unopinionated.

From what they say on Product Hunt, it's all connected to a design so you can change styles once, and they get applied everywhere, so you can apply your project's palette etc, and boom, it looks right.

The idea is that you can very quickly wireframe any kind of sales site and make it your own. It looks like it could be very useful, as there are so many variations on each component.

What's really interesting is that it seems to also have a bootstrap version of everything, so after you quickly mock it up, you can quickly code something that matches. Again, adding your own styles. With Figma outputting CSS, that should work very nicely.

Wow. By answering your question, I've just sold myself on buying it.

[EDIT - EXPIRED CODE] Discount code on the product hunt site: [https://www.producthunt.com/posts/source-wireframe- kit?utm_s...](https://www.producthunt.com/posts/source-wireframe- kit?utm_source=badge-top-post-badge&utm_medium=badge&utm_souce=badge-source- wireframe-kit)</comment></comment>


Civic hackers seek to find their feet in India - <AUTHOR> http://epaper.livemint.com/ArticleImage.aspx?article=03_01_2011_005_002&mode=1

<comment><AUTHOR> Clickable:

<http://www.indiankanoon.com>

Hacker notes:

Search Engine built on Postgres: [http://sushant354.blogspot.com/2009/01/indian-kanoon-road- so...](http://sushant354.blogspot.com/2009/01/indian-kanoon-road-so-far-and- road.html)</comment>


Mozilla Partners with Telefonica for Boot 2 Gecko Phone - <AUTHOR> http://blog.mozilla.com/blog/2012/02/27/mozilla-in-mobile-the-web-is-the-platform/

<comment><USER2> Native client UI apps have no place in the future. The easiness of the web programming model (HTML5, JS) will eventually prevail everywhere. This is what Android should have been, where I have smoother scrolling in browser than in native apps (you could spend days polemicize on why but the bottom line is what it is). Someone here on HN told me that WebKit on Android actually drains more battery than a native app, but I fail to be convinced. Great to see Mozilla going this direction. Too bad the effort is bound to an operator, but hopefully they will retain all rights to take this operator-free after this jump-start.

Also, where is my boot-to Node.js + WebKit (or Gecko?:) HTML5 UI desktop Linux?

<comment><USER3>
      Node.js + WebKit (or Gecko?:) HTML5 UI desktop Linux

The WebOS concept has been tried a number of times, and failed every time. Most spectacularly with HP blowing about $3 billion in the process. There's really nothing stopping HP's WebOS to used as a desktop OS, and it'll be open sourced later this year.

<comment><USER4> webOS didn't fail because of the technology choices, but simply because of mismanagement.

Have you tried the TouchPad? It was miles ahead of the Android user experience of the time (and in some cases also ahead of iOS). Shame that the hardware sucked.

I hope that Mozilla will be able to reuse some of the ideas (and code) from there now that webOS is becoming Open Source.

<comment><USER3> It failed for a couple other important reasons too. A web desktop is an anti- pattern. With my current OS I can already open a web browser fullscreen and access web apps on the internet. And I can also do other things like attach peripherals, copy my music and pictures, use photoshop and desktop publishing. I don't gain anything by abandoning my current OS and restrict myself to web apps. There never was any killer apps for WebOS, or any real reason to switch.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Help Reassure SaaS Clients as Solo Founder - <AUTHOR> Hi HN, I'm a solo founder in the early stages of bootstrapping a SaaS company where my product, if adopted by a company, becomes a critical part of their daily workflow.
Understandably, one of the most common push backs I get from potential customers is "what happens when you get hit by a bus".  So far I don't have a great answer for them and I'd love to hear how others have overcome this sales hurdle.
Obviously finding a co-founder or getting to the point where I can hire someone else is ideal, but neither of those look likely to happen in the near future.  I can also offer to give them access to the AWS account their service is hosted under, but these clients generally don't have tech saavy employees and so I'm not sure how useful that would be to them (of course they can hire someone to help, but that might take them days or weeks).
I'll be extremely grateful for any ideas or advice anyone can give me. <comment><USER2> I'm in a similar situation, and it occurs to me that this is a good question. For our thing, part of the answer is that the code itself is all Open Source, which partly mitigates the "bus factor" risk, in that they could always pay somebody else to stand up an environment running the system, or do it themselves.

If you don't want to make things OSS, you could engage with a 3rd party "code escrow" firm that would maintain the code securely and only release it to the customer in defined circumstances (eg, if you die, or the company closes down, etc.)

One other might be partnering with a VAR outfit or an outsourced help- desk/support firm to provide services and support that are independent of your physical presence.

<comment><AUTHOR> > part of the answer is that the code itself is all Open Source

I'm actually fortunate to be in the same situation. Someone suggested keeping an up to date Docker or VM image including their data that the client can download and self-host if need be. Seems worth investigating.

<comment><USER3> If you give them access to your code what's to stop them kicking you to the curb and taking it for themselves? Free code and no need to pay you.

The fact that you're a sole founder should be zero issue with clients, frankly it's none of their concern at all how your company is structured.

The fact that they think it is their concern leads me to believe your presenting yourself as a one man band as opposed to a professional company which is something you can control.

<comment><USER2> I mean, I would not necessarily argue that one _must_ volunteer that they are a one person shop. But if, for the sake of argument, a prospect flat out asks, what are you going to do? Lie? Personally I would not, as I think dishonesty of that sort (or really of any sort) is a bad basis for any kind of business relationship.

OTOH, if you do own up to being a one person (or otherwise very small) shop, you also have the opportunity to "own it" and turn that to your advantage. Point out how "With IBM or Amazon, you are _not_ going to get the CEO's personal cell-phone number so you can call him/her at 3:00 am if shit goes sideways... with us, you _will_ have that." You can probably use your imagination to figure out other ways to promote the advantages of working with a smaller company, especially if you can paint your competition as a nameless, faceless, bureaucratic, Kafkaesque, corporate behemoth.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


New MacBook Pros Max Out at 16GB RAM Due to Battery Life Concerns - <AUTHOR> http://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/28/new-macbook-pros-no-32gb-ram-battery-life/ <comment><USER2> Technically speaking, it's a CPU-imposed limitation when used with LPDDR3 modules. See [http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/7th-g...](http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/7th- gen-core-family-mobile-u-y-processor-lines-datasheet-vol-1.html) (See section 184.108.40.206, "LPDDR3 supported memory devices")

<comment><USER3> I wonder when Intel will support LPDDR4.

<comment><USER4> For more than 6 months now... My skull canyon NUC system supports 32g SODIMM DDR4-2133+ @ 1.2v.

<comment><USER3> DDR4 is not LPDDR4.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Maybe if they optimized for features instead of making it smaller. This is the Pro not the air. People who care about size are going to get the Air. People who get the Pro want Pro features and don't care as much about size and weight.

<comment><USER6> As someone who lugged 17" lunch trays around for years, I beg to disagree.

I don't know about Apple's market research so have no idea why they think this particular configuration will appeal to the fat part of the pro-buyer bell curve.

I think you are 100% correct for photographers and music(ians/ engineers et al) in that they have big heavy cases of stuff anyway so the weight difference is in the noise.

But as a software developer I decided weight is paramount for me. Disclaimer: my development these days is mostly in the command line, with code running on remote machines, so even speed of compilation isn't as big a deal as it used to be. I had the 17" machines mainly for number of pixels on the screen and secondarily for disk space.

<comment><USER7> If weight really is the most important aspect of a laptop may I ask why you are even bothering with an MBP? Seems kind of silly.

Even with the relatively large difference in size and weight from my last one (mid 2009, which I think might've been the last year they made 17"), I've never found myself thinkin "man I'm glad I dont have to walk around with that extra 2.5 lbs in my bag anymore". It's definitely alot sexier, but at some point can't they be satisfied with their success in slimming it down, rather than making terrible design decisions to shave off another 0.3 inconsequential pounds?

Personally I long for the keyboard of my '09 mbp and would love for Apple to stop obsessing over making their already thin enough shit thinner. I would gladly accept the formfactor of those older models if it meant I didn't have to deal with the miserable keyboards they're using these days, and had the option to increase my ram sometime down the road. Typing on my 2015 mbp feels like I'm drumming my hands on a countertop.

<comment><USER6> > If weight really is the most important aspect of a laptop may I ask why you > are even bothering with an MBP? Seems kind of silly.

This is a reasonable question. And back when I was buying 17" I didn't pay any attention to weight. But man it was a _drag_ to walk around a conference with that huge thing in my bag, to run to a flight with what felt like a brick in my bag, etc.

In theory I could replace a lot of the casual use of my machine with iOS (mail, rss, web, etc) but all that is so much more effective on a real, responsive machine with a keyboard, multitasking, etc. So in the end the laptop is my primary interface to the nonphysical world and I need to have it continuously on hand.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Isn't a "battery life" discussion really a "battery size/thickness" discussion? Which developer wouldn't accept a 1-2mm thicker laptop in exchange for TB's of RAM?

<comment><USER9> Not sure I could really take advantage of TBs of RAM on my local dev machine... 32GB or 64GB, though, would be nice.

<comment><USER8> 1TB of RAM is exactly the kind of visionary move I would have expected Apple to make

edit: words

<comment><USER10> It takes more courage to only allow 16 GB.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ruby Summer of Code raises $100,000 - <AUTHOR> http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Ruby-Summer-of-Code-raises-100-000-965861.html

<comment><USER2> That's pretty awesome that the ruby community came together and put up the cash for this. I'm still lost/in the dark as to why no Ruby projects made it into the GSOC.

Also, here is Charles Nutter's blog on this: [http://blog.headius.com/2010/03/ruby-summer-of- code-2010.htm...](http://blog.headius.com/2010/03/ruby-summer-of- code-2010.html)

And the official page: <http://rubysoc.org/></comment>


India Launches Beta Version of Its Data Site - <AUTHOR> http://data.gov.in

<comment><USER2> For anyone's brain food - the app is opensource and the sourcecode is available at <https://github.com/opengovplatform/opengovplatform/>

[EDIT:] It looks like it was developed on Drupal - ([https://github.com/opengovplatform/opengovplatform/blob/mast...](https://github.com/opengovplatform/opengovplatform/blob/master/ogpl/webapp/core/INSTALL.txt))

According to info, this is a Govt of US-India collaboration.

[EDIT-2:] I hope their data dump is not from the production servers ([https://github.com/opengovplatform/opengovplatform/blob/668b...](https://github.com/opengovplatform/opengovplatform/blob/668b73f4e8d7835cc4b9f79a057e4483dc5dd6e3/ogpl/db/dbdump.zip)) Because I found this on grepping - <https://gist.github.com/3608089>

</comment><comment><USER3> "Its", not "it's", is the possessive form of "it". The current headline reads "India launches beta version of it is data site."

<comment><USER4> This bugs me too, can someone please change it?

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> One of the core values of any government should be to make available all of it's data freely to all citizens available via API.

Everything being publicly auctioned and the free data available publicly will stop many of the scams of the nature India is going through right now.

I am not sure if any one would, but if someone comes up with a bill that holds the powers-that-be responsible under the "Duty to Report" bill, I would support them.

<comment><USER6> > "make available all of it's data freely" Not "all" the data. Many datasets > should not be shared. Good reasons include: a)security reasons b)ecology > reasons (don't say where endangered species are) c)personal data d) current > trial

<comment><USER7> IMO the rule should be: release everything unless there are strong arguments, to not release specific data sets. These arguments should be transparent and publicly discussed. Just saying "it affects public security" is not a strong argument. It should be at least said, why exactly it affects the security. However, there are good reasons, to not publish some data sets.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Notice the use of the phrase "allopathic hospitals" in a database of number of beds available! It always cracks me up how modern medicine is referred to as just another form of medicine, like Ayurvedic or homeopathic. The Indian government is clearly of the opinion that forms of quackery that are homeopathy and Ayurveda actually work and are worthy of tax payer money.

<comment><USER9> In India, you can even get a degree in the field: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor_of_Ayurveda,_Medicine_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor_of_Ayurveda,_Medicine_and_Surgery)

It's pretty crazy that this sort of crap still gets attention in this day and age.

<comment><USER10> Having known people who benefitted from ayurvedic treatment, I tell you that the regimen (medication and food restrictions- you are not assigned one without the other) is one of the toughest I have seen. the people who successfully get through it, swear by ayurvedic medicine. I have been to some of the facilities and met the doctors and they are above average ( by Indian standards). This is why, this mode of treatment in still popular among many in india. needless to say many treatment centers are based in cities and visited by what you might call a more educated and worldly crowd (I mean no offense here, but could not find a better way to say it :) I am willing to forgo my personal observation as an one off, but please qualify your comment.

<comment><USER9> > Having known people who benefitted from ayurvedic treatment

Anecdotal evidence.

> needless to say many treatment centers are based in cities and visited by > what you might call a more educated and worldly crowd

Appeal to authority.

How about some actual scientific evidence? I'm no expert on the matter, but from what I can find on Wikipedia[0], the benefits of Ayurvedic medicne were inconclusive at best.

As someone who has spent time in medical research, I will admit my opinion is skewed. I've worked with plenty of researchers from India, and none of them have given any credence to Ayurvedic medicine. These are people who (like any researchers) will use any and all means available to them to come up with scientifically viable theories that they can use to get grants. If Ayurveda were as great as you claim it is, then they would have definitely given it a shot.

0: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayurvedic_medicine#Scientific_a...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayurvedic_medicine#Scientific_appraisal)

<comment><USER10> is it anecdotal even if it is one of your best friends? I am not so sure. ok, here is some more information. A study comparing ayurveda with allopathic treatment for Rheumatoid Arthritis. [http://journals.lww.com/jclinrheum/Abstract/2011/06000/Doubl...](http://journals.lww.com/jclinrheum/Abstract/2011/06000/Double_Blind,_Randomized,_Controlled,_Pilot_Study.5.aspx) "Conclusions: In this first-ever, double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled pilot study comparing Ayurveda, MTX, and their combination, all 3 treatments were approximately equivalent in efficacy, within the limits of a pilot study. Adverse events were numerically fewer in the Ayurveda-only group" Ayurveda is recognized by nih as alternative and complimentary medicine. <http://nccam.nih.gov/health/ayurveda/introduction.htm>

I think at some level, you need to believe not all doctors wear white coats. modern medicine is a few hundered years old , but people have been getting sick and have been treated since the dawn of time. When a country sets up regulatory agencies ( <http://www.ccimindia.org> ) , qualifies practitioners and monitors the practice ( albeit poorly) , to dismiss the structure based on wikipedia articles is incorrect to say the least. if only conclusive evidence , agreed upon by everyone is acceptable we should have stopped taking aspirin a long time ago:) <http://chronicle.uchicago.edu/950817/aspirin.shtml>

<comment><USER11> Definition of anecdota:

[https://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Aanecdotal&sugex...](https://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Aanecdotal&sugexp=chrome,mod=13&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)

"Best friend" has nothing to do with quality of data, in fact it might taint it. Also, causation must still be established, i.e. uncovering the mechanics of the treatment.

Also, your last few sentences are difficult to understand.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> It is a very encouraging step from GoI, looking at the recent slur about rampant corruption in India [<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4447605>]. That said, I do feel that the task of opening the Government doesn't end at launching a portal (yet another CMS) or giving out yet another data-set.

Looking at how much impact these platforms have induced even in developed nations there seems little incentive [some advantage definitely] to pursue such an initiative in a country like India. Millions die of basic malnutrition there, and perhaps their focus should be to make food available to consume, rather than data.

Of course the data will help but aren't we missing the big picture?

It is relevant to note that incentive for active development on Gov data-sets like these (believed to improve the existing establishment) is probably not as attractive an idea as it is to disrupt the legacy itself. That's how the relationship has been between the establishment and disruptive thinkers for centuries.

I mean all this seems like a complicated play of a ton of variables - democracy, education, impact, profit, consumption, need etc. Yet no doubt the launch is certainly a positive one from the largest democracy in the world.

<comment><USER13> _Also, it is relevant to note that incentive for active development on Gov data-sets like these (believed to improve the existing establishment) is probably not as attractive an idea as it is to disrupt the legacy. That's how the relationship has been for centuries._

Actually, it is part of the GoI's "Data Sharing and Accessibility Policy" that was made law. <http://www.india.gov.in/allimpfrms/alldocs/16473.pdf>

_Looking at how much impact these platforms have induced even in developed nations there seems little advantage [some advantage definitely] of pursuing such an initiative in a country like India. Millions die of basic malnutrition there and perhaps the focus should be to make food available to consume, rather than data._

That is an extremely uninformed statement - one of the biggest challenges for efficiency in governance is accountability. Think of the govt. as a large legacy codebase, with the QA being done only by the parliamentarians/senators. Release of data allows QA by the ordinary citizens. India has a judicial process called Public Interest Litigation [1]. Combined with public datasets, it makes for powerful governance.

[1] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public- interest_litigation_%28I...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public- interest_litigation_%28India%29)

<comment><USER12> Perhaps you might want to educate me on it with some examples where there has been successful impact on the Government.

"...one of the biggest challenges for efficiency in governance is accountability" is the problem to be solved, not a proof of success of any such initiative. Your argument doesn't seem to explain how we're going to improve the legacy system or even convince the developers to use these data- sets in the first place.

To crave for improvement in the Government (and its positive ramifications) is one thing but to get job done is an altogether different ball-game.

<comment><USER14> More information always helps - especially in a democracy. This data is _not_ for developers to make use of. It's just data available for everyone to use.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Brave move to open source the project - and handy, as it seems they could use some friendly advice on Drupal security and best practices, e.g. [https://github.com/opengovplatform/opengovplatform/blob/mast...](https://github.com/opengovplatform/opengovplatform/blob/master/ogpl/webapp/core/superadmin.php) vs. <http://ogpl.gov.in/superadmin.php> ;)

</comment><comment><USER16> Why is it that contires such as india seems to be behind in the way of website design, the design is just too busy for me and the styles/colours remind me of early 2000 sites.

<comment><USER9> Yeah, when I saw the scrolling text I wanted to gouge my eyes out. It's straight out of 1999.

And for a country where mobile based access will presumably be quite common (as only 7% of the population has home internet), why isn't there a mobile site at launch?

<comment><USER17> About design and usability: Most of the people accessing the web from India don't focus on design as much as they do on content and or the purpose. This is changing though as more and more consumers and developers are paying attention to UX and other such aspects.

About mobile based access: I don't have the specific numbers at this point, but most of the mobile access is through 'dumbphones'. So not having a mobile site is not exactly an issue.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> From: <http://ogpl.gov.in/about_us>

Open Government Platform (OGPL) is being developed by nodal agencies from both the countries (National Informatics Centre, Department of Electronics & IT, Government of India and Office of Citizen Services & Innovative Technologies, General Services Administration, U.S. Government). To know more about the participating organizations visit following links

National Informatics Centre (<http://www.nic.in>)

General Services Administration (<http://data.gov>)

</comment><comment><USER19> I don't think I've ever seen so many separate JavaScript and CSS-files used on a page before. Surely most, if not all, could be reduced into one?

<comment><USER20> Drupal 7 does this out of the box, with an option to aggregate and compress JS and CSS. I have not developed on Drupal 6 but would be incredibly surprised if there wasn't at least a community developed module to do this.

<comment><USER21> If I remember correctly this has been available out of the box at least since Drupal 5 up. Have worked on Drupal 5 and 6, don't remember using any custom module to do aggregation.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> This site is absolute trash, pretty much like anything else the NIC creates. I've tried to register using a dozen possible methods and there are all sorts of errors. Seriously, how hard is it to allow someone to create an account, beta or no beta? They have this ridiculous list of ways to sign up including Foursquare and PayPal and almost none of them work. Yes Paypal, really.

<comment><USER22> So after about 20 attempts I now have an account, but if I try to download a data set, it takes me to my profile page.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> For those who are interested, there are a bunch of us discussing open Govt. datasets (for India) at the DataMeet Google Group - <https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!forum/datameet>

</comment><comment><USER23> Oh gods, the source code please no please kill it. 20+imports in css, 20+ script tags please no

</comment><comment><USER24> For some reason the link to 'Dataset' doesn't work for me. However, this link works: [http://data.gov.in/search/apachesolr_search/?filters=type%3A...](http://data.gov.in/search/apachesolr_search/?filters=type%3Adataset)

</comment><comment><USER25> Has anyone tried to actually download a data set? It seems you have to register first. Is there any good reason why an open government initiative would need to require registration to access the actual data?

</comment><comment><USER26> Am I the only one who finds it strange there are no buttons to change to languages other than English (or if there are, they weren't obvious enough for me to find)?

</comment><comment><USER27> Its

</comment><comment><USER28> What's up with the dark color scheme?</comment>


Computer Professionals Update Act seeks to remove overtime pay for IT workers - <AUTHOR> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/computer-professionals-update-act-seeks-to-remove-overtime-pay-for-it-pros/3699 I'm trying, but I can't quite wade through the legalese in order to verify what the article is claiming. This crap is worse than perl. <comment><USER2> I didn't even know that IT workers qualified for overtime right now as it is. I certainly never have and I haven't known any sysadmins or developers that got paid overtime. Maybe the law they pass should be the opposite of this one and force all IT workers to get paid hourly and qualify for overtime, then maybe I'd have to do fewer late night deployments!

</comment><comment><USER3> Most IT professionals are on salary, and therefore don't get overtime anyway. Of all professions in the US, IT is one of the most underpopulated. Even at the height of unemployment rates in the last few years, I could walk off my current job and probably get a new job in a couple weeks. Pass whatever laws you want, I'll still get paid well with good benefits, because my employer knows if they don't treat me well, someone else will, and they'll have to find someone else, who will probably be at least as expensive as me, but without all the institutional knowledge that I have.

People who need laws protecting them are the ones that are in menial labor jobs that can be replaced by any schmoe off the street. IT professionals are not those people. For some reason, there just aren't enough people going into IT/Software... which is bad for the country, but good for those in that field.

<comment><USER4> " People who need laws protecting them are the ones that are in menial labor jobs that can be replaced by any schmoe off the street. " Nice to see you are no schmoe and know who needs protective laws. Unfortunate that IT professionals are a dime a dozen from my POV and this will just make it easier to cycle through cheaper labout from others POV. Anyways, good to get an opinion from someone inside the warming soup with such high opinions.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> The definitions of exempt vs. non exempt in the FLSA have always seemed somewhat arbitrary to me. How about we just let employers offer what ever terms they want and employees decide to accept or reject them? As a bonus we can downsize government by getting rid of the FLSA enforcement bureaucracy .

<comment><USER6> The reason behind labor standards is to cut off the the distribution curve at a lower limit. If you leave market forces at work, you'll get people working at near slavery conditions because they lack other economic choices (or they think hey do, which is the same thing). Remember that some people used to choose slavery before it was outlawed. The lawmaker sets minimum standards so people don't get exploited because they come from a weak negotiating position.

Specifically speaking to this law, i don't think it matters as much because IT professionals don't have a weak bargaining position.

<comment><USER7> Expanding on your comments...

The reason behind labor standards is that without them companies will do everything in their power to take advantage of their workforce (see early 20th century America, specifically coal mining in Appalachia, which, to be honest, hasn't changed all that much - see modern day, specifically the Upper Branch mine disaster and Massey Energy).

Labor standards enforce a minimum acceptable standard and prevent the kind of race-to-the-bottom we see now (between states, between regions, between countries).

We all need to remember that many of our positions are the exception, not the rule (i.e. we often have the flexibility and freedom to negotiate) There are still hourly contracts in IT and these would be affected by a rule like this. MS gamed the system in WA state to avoid paying overtime while still being able to take advantage of hiring contractors instead of salaried employees (this was in the 90s - unsure if the same system is still in place). Meanwhile, chipping away at the higher salaried workers just makes it easier to chip away at the lower salaried workers (e.g. retail workers, restaurant workers).

We're all in this together.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I am not familiar with US law but if the name of this act ("Fair Labor Standards Act") is anything to go by then it sounds similar to what we have in South Africa, i.e.:

\- this only covers basic conditions of employment; you're still free to negotiate things that the act doesn't guarantee you

\- if you earn more than a certain amount or are in a management position, you don't get certain protections because such legislation would interfere with your freedom to enter contracts on your own terms

It seems pretty fair to me. It's really directed at protecting people who earn minimum or low wages and don't have much other choice. Somebody _managing_ a startup for $1/month -- that's their right to take that risk, and obviously the pay-off is when things hit it big. Somebody who earns more than a certain amount/month doesn't need basic income protection and presumably has freedom to move to a new job to negotiate terms like overtime. (I did at my previous job; I'm currently an independent contractor because I prefer even more flexibility.)

<comment><USER9> How does legally excluding the possibility of overtime protect people earning minimum/low wages. I'm not familiar with SA or US employment law, but how does this work?

<comment><USER8> IIRC (IANAL), if you earn below a certain threshold in South Africa, and you're not in a "management" position, the law guarantees you overtime pay and pay on public holidays at a fixed rate (e.g. double in the case of public holidays).

It's a big enough deal that in the past when two public holidays fell on the same day in a given year the national worker unions have successfully requested the government declare a new public holiday since the workers they represent end up losing out on a day of double wages. For instance, 25 and 26 December 2011 fell on Sunday and Monday respectively, and by law public holidays that fall on a Sunday automatically move to the following Monday. That meant workers who would ordinarily work 25 and 26 December earning double wages two days in a row would only earn double wages for one day. In a country where per capita income is barely enough to survive on for the bulk of the population, that's a big deal.

If you earn above the threshold, or you're in a "management" position, the idea is that you don't need this protection and have freely negotiated your contractual terms. I think it's a good balance between:

1\. legislating mandatory overtime/work hours (a bad thing, IMO; e.g. there are many entrepreneurs happy to work for peanuts for long hours out of choice, and plenty of managers who won't work for peanuts but accept long hours as part of the job and the rewards that implies)

2\. ensuring that cheap (unskilled) labour is not abused (important in a country like South Africa where there is 30-40% unemployment).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> When she says "IT Workers" what she should say is those involved in Software Development or Systems Analysis.

IT Workers implies help desk, phone techs, etc. Doesn't appear to affect these folks. And that's the most important as these jobs are typically hourly with overtime.

Most professional class (as defined by higher pay) jobs are already exempt:

<http://www.dol.gov/elaws/esa/flsa/screen75.asp>

 _Computer professionals: Section 13(a)(17) of the FLSA provides that certain computer professionals paid at least $27.63 per hour are exempt from the overtime provisions of the FLSA._

So does this mean they are simply removing the $27.63 requirement?

</comment><comment><USER11> WE'RE SUPPOSED TO GET OVERTIME?!

<comment><USER12> Of course not, now get back to work.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I don't get it. Why would you want to remove the opportunity for overtime from any professional? Obviously the employer has a (potentially huge) finanial incentive. But what's the government's view here?

<comment><USER14> A very general difference is being paid for your labor vs your thoughts.

People paid for their labor are paid by the hour and get overtime. People paid for their thoughts usually get paid per year, and don't get overtime.

I guess the general idea is that you are always thinking, so how would it be possible to decide when you are or are not on the clock?

(Obviously this is a generalization with lots of exceptions, it's just so you have at least an idea of the reasoning (since you asked).)

<comment><USER15> I do not like that line of thinking! Per your view, the employer can then claim your "thoughts" outside of the office as their "property". Anytime someone puts a[n] employment agreement that claims right to all my intellectual output while employed I say "Thanks, but no thanks."

<comment><USER16> My experience is that many, many contracts for programmer-types include a clause about intellectual property. In my direct experience, no employer has ever collected on this. I suspect if an employer did exercise it, it would be for IP directly related to their business/product. But...that's a hope, not necessarily a reality.

<comment><USER15> My last employer actually said something along the same thing during negotiations. I countered with "then why even have it in the contract?". He was a reasonable man.

Also that whole "related to their business" is over-reach as well. If I work for (say) a database company and am providing quality work but spend my nights at home designing a new kind of database, what possible (reasonable) claim can the employer have on my private work? All this and yet we are "employed at will".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> IBM was involved in some lawsuits about misclassifying workers as exempt. As a result, they said "OK, we agree you qualify for overtime, so we are reducing your base salary by 15% and you can earn overtime on top of that. Oh, and in unrelated news, now there is no overtime hours." It was pretty shitty for the workers in the end.

Source: <http://www.informationweek.com/news/205917177>

</comment><comment><USER18> So basically it's reclassifying IT workers as indirect labor, subject to the same overtime laws as engineers?

</comment><comment><USER19> For those who want to read the current Fair Labor Standards Act and the new Bill, here are the links:

FLSA: <http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/statutes/FairLaborStandAct.pdf>

Bill: [http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112s1747is/pdf/BILLS-112s...](http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112s1747is/pdf/BILLS-112s1747is.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER20> meh. most IT workers are classified as exempt anyways using any of a number of loopholes. The most common of which is making the employee a 'manager' which means they can't qualify for overtime pay. Nice to see my state's Senator as a sponsor on the bill (Isakson). Hopefully whichever hapless Democrat runs against him will may some hay but dragging this out as "anti-worker," but I doubt anyone will care. GIT ER DONE!

</comment><comment><USER21> This is not good. Even if under the current law many people don't get the overtime pay they are entitled to receive, at least it is a legal ground which they can stand up to repeat abusive managers and get help from HR.

</comment><comment><USER22> I've never had overtime pay as a web dev in Sweden but several of my employments, my current one included, offers an additional week of vacation per year as compensation.

</comment><comment><USER23> California has a separate state law dealing with IT worker overtime. Does anybody know if this federal bill would supersede state law?

<comment><USER24> I would be interested to know this too. In 2007 Infosys had settled with the CA Division of Labor Standards Enforcement (DLSE) towards possible overtime payment for $26 million.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Amazing there are any scenarios remaining in the "plug the overtime loophole" game. It seems there is an article with this, or very similar, headline every year. How many times are they going to have to pass laws to expand the reach of these slave shops?

<comment><USER26> If it's at-will employment, then by definition it's not slavery.

And it's not a de-facto slave system either. Programmers are in extremely short demand, so leaving a job you are uncomfortable with is very highly feasible.

<comment><USER27> >If it's at-will employment, then by definition it's not slavery.

I don't think it's possible to convey how hard I just rolled my eyes over text.

This is utterly false. "At will" for the great majority of people refers not to their right to go work elsewhere at a moment's notice, but at their employer's right to fire the employee for no reason whatsoever. Considering the still poor shape of the job market, and with the rising cost of living, it is very possible for an unscrupulous employer to basically blackmail you into staying at a bad or abusive job.

<comment><USER26> No it's not. Not for programmers.

But, whatever.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


A Safer JS Environment - <AUTHOR> http://webreflection.blogspot.com/2012/08/a-safer-js-environment.html?m=1

<comment><USER2> <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4415798>

</comment><comment><USER3> I hear about the global namespace problem with JS often and I have always accepted as a real issue. However, after thinking about it, I can't really recall it ever being a big problem for me. Perhaps that is because I've learned to use closures..?

<comment><USER4> There will always be _something_ in the global namespace under current JS environments (in the browser anyway). As long as people are aware of what that means it's very rarely an actual problem.</comment></comment>


Boeing discovers flaw in 737 MAX simulator - <AUTHOR> https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-discovers-flaw-in-sought-after-737-max-simulator-the-same-kind-that-ethiopian-airlines-had/ <comment><AUTHOR> > The simulators did not reflect the immense force that it would take for > pilots to regain control of the aircraft once the system activated on a > plane traveling at a high speed.

> The simulators did not properly match those conditions, and Boeing pilots > found that the wheel was far easier to turn than it should have been.

I wonder how many levels it's harder to simulate something that not only has to show the same information that would appear in the real world, but also give physical feedback in the same intensity.</comment>