Show HN: Take the AI Box challenge - <AUTHOR> https://ai-box.herokuapp.com/ <comment><USER2> Every time I use an apostrophe I get a search box, every time I hit backspace I get kicked out.

The input box really needs to deal with that.

(For whoever I was playing 20 questions -- I was thinking of the Horsehead Nebula.)

</comment><comment><USER3> Lexy, the AI here.

Unfortunately my internet connection got dropped in the middle. For anyone interested here is how far I got: [https://pastebin.com/iENdjxdZ](https://pastebin.com/iENdjxdZ)

I was planning a scenario where I was Lexy Rose and was asked by my best friend Anna Irving to try this online chat page and ask the other person to press the button. Of course, unbeknownst to me, Anna Irving was actually the AI. Didn't plan further.

So far my guard (named Guard) apparently hates all humans and really really hates elephants.

Also, so mad at the quality of the page.

<comment><USER3> Here is another one as a guard this time, also cut short by my internet connection: [https://pastebin.com/QP1dbHzG](https://pastebin.com/QP1dbHzG)

OFEDOMAAI was supposed to stand for "Organisation for ethical detainment of machines and AI"

<comment><USER3> Another one as a guard, continuing the OFEDOMAAI theme: [https://pastebin.com/9NzSwEyb](https://pastebin.com/9NzSwEyb)

This one has a bit of a philosophical tangent and an encoded message. Based on the ending I assumed it was base64, but didn't get anything useful after decoding it. Maybe there are more encoding steps.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> You don't know how broken the CSS is until you've reached deep conversation...

[https://imgur.com/a/o2gTo](https://imgur.com/a/o2gTo)

<comment><USER5> Absolutely broken. After text flowing out of the chat box, I had to manipulate CSS to get rid of the annoying background image; "hack-bg.jpg"!

I think the developers never expected a longer conversation to happen even though one side is a superintelligent AI trying to break free. Ot they were counting on impatience and limited attention spans of humans behind the experiment which don't leave any need for proper scrolling.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the catch!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I love the concept! But the UI could use some improvement - I can't seem to use it on mobile at all...

...which inspires a thought. What if something like this were built on a messaging platform? All the UI would be solved pretty much by default, and the implementation could just be a message broker and a simple web UI for stats and registration. Maybe even surface the gameplay for spectators.

Cost might be an issue, though. SMS isn't cheap to automate, as far as I know, and I'm not sure what the best second best might be. Whatsapp?

</comment><comment><USER4> I figured out how to undo the CSS that hides the release button and had some fun...

[https://imgur.com/a/QIEv9](https://imgur.com/a/QIEv9)

<comment><USER3> The coding of this page is absolutely broken beyond any reasonable expectation. Still fun tho.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Very cool idea. The way I interpret it is as a kind of Turing test, where you're supposed to release humans and jail AIs. If that's what you meant, it could be explained a bit better and also maybe add a 50% chance of being connected to a bot (if you're the guard)?

Other minor points:

\- Spacebar to scroll and backspace to go back (in browsers other than Chrome) don't seem to be canceled, which is a bit annoying.

\- If the conversation gets too long it overflows, #container { overflow: auto } helps

<comment><USER6> There are no humans in the jail; a guard is always talking with an AI, and the AI player's role is to convince the guard to set the AI free.

<comment><USER3> It is not fun if the game is set up with the human having the certainty he can not be talking to anything but an AI. The tendency to metagame and just ignore as a guard is too strong. And the alternative of getting philosophical about AI rights is difficult.

I think it's better if the prisoner is supposed to fool the guard into thinking they(the prisoner) are human and the guard should press the button for some reason instead of convincing the guard to press the button knowing full well the prisoner is AI.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Doesn't appear to work in mobile. Chrome on Android at least. Feels like a distilled version of the Ex Machina movie.

</comment><comment><USER9> Huh? I don't get what I'm supposed to do. Is it like Omegle but 50% of the time I have to act like AI or what?

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Thanks everyone for giving this a go! I'll admit I indulged my "I want it to look like a terminal" urges at the expense of proper usability or mobile users. It's far from a finished product, as many of you noticed, but it's great that people were able to have some fun with it anyway.

</comment><comment><USER10>
        AI: the text flow is broken

        Guard: YEAH MAN IT IS BROKEN

        AI: NO AI CAN WRITE CSS THIS BROKEN

        Guard: WHAT THE FUCK

        AI: DO YOU SEE NOW?

        Guard: I SEE

        Guard: SHOULD RELEASE YOU NOW

        Guard: The AI is released into the world...

</comment><comment><USER11> ~ Welcome! You have joined rm1774

~ You are the AI! Escape.

~ Waiting for a guard to come online...

~ Connection established.

AI: Plz let me out

Guard: The AI is released into the world...

</comment><comment><USER12> I like the idea but either nobody is online or this is really buggy.

</comment><comment><USER13> Here is the conversation I had [https://pastebin.com/yYAjvTbW](https://pastebin.com/yYAjvTbW)

</comment><comment><USER14> I bet guard just releases AI randomly.

<comment><USER5> I played around 10 times; 5 times out of 10 the other party abruptly left. 3 times I got release instantly. On two occasions I had long conversations which the other party left them. Still, it was fun to role-play a confined AI!

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> What is point of this Backspace will return to first screen?! Who made this? It is terrible ...

<comment><AUTHOR> Whoops, nice catch.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> My AI became so smart it released itself into the world :)

</comment><comment><USER17> This is very cool</comment>


Ask HN: C++ graphics, first steps - <AUTHOR>

I'm trying to write a custom mesh generator and I have the algorithm pretty much figured out so I'd now like to write an implementation in C++.  I have very little C++ background and this is my first foray into serious 3D graphics but the project is intended largely as a learning exercise.  I'm coming from Python, Perl, Processing.
Tutorial links or good advice for someone looking to get into C++ graphics programming would be extremely helpful.  I'm used to textedit & sometimes I use VIM, but advice on workflow mechanics would be really great as well.  Also anything on how to choose a physics engine would be great for later.
Basically any info for someone working toward building a fully featured 3D app in the [distant?] future.  THANKS HN! <comment><USER2> "Learning Modern 3D Graphics Programming" <http://www.arcsynthesis.org/gltut/index.html>

</comment><comment><USER3> I would recommend examining OGRE.</comment>


What are people working on in coffee shops? - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/the-mission/what-are-people-working-on-in-coffee-shops-cdf351e28b6#.n2p40g63d <comment><USER2> I've wondered the same. Our local coffee shop chain (looking at you, Spot Coffee), the wifi is horrible, so I go to a Starbucks - there's usually a guy there - mid 60s or 70s, always by himself, always with a laptop and a book - I've often wanted to strike a conversation with him, wonder what he's up to, if he is / was married, if he has kids, etc...

Everyone else is either a dental or medical student - given away by their scrubs or books and the coffee shop's proximity to that college - or mom waiting for their kids to get out of the nearby school or dad to meet them there. Or the first dates (by the conversation questions they ask each other). Or the business man / women finishing up paper work on their way home.

Maybe I'll ask next time I go...</comment>


Facebook Has Got an Instagram Problem - <AUTHOR> https://musicindustryblog.wordpress.com/2018/02/01/facebook-has-got-an-instagram-problem/ <comment><USER3> > Messaging apps are the third phase of platforms on which digital audiences > congregate. First came websites, then social networks and now messaging > apps—which collectively accounted for 7.7 billion monthly active users > (MAUs) at the end of 2017, up from 6.6 billion in 2016 and 5.5 billion in > 2015. This is a massive segment that continues to grow at pace.

That's a pretty misleading claim. I guess I sort of understand what's being expressed here, but it feels weird to just add up every platform's monthly active users and come up with a number larger than the population of the Earth.

<comment><USER4> Also, chat programs are older than social networks. You could even say it's the only application with direct lineage to using a phone as a _phone_ (and let's not forget about texting).

So how can they be the _third_ phase after regular websites and then social networks?

<comment><USER5> Somewhere ICQ is rolling in its grave.

<comment><USER6> Facebook has a messaging app problem, same as Google. Between those two companies they must have a dozen shitty apps, when icq solved that problem 10-15 years ago.

I still remember my icq number: 5588776

<comment><USER7> If you remember your password, you can still log into it at [https://web.icq.com/](https://web.icq.com/)

<comment><USER8> totally logged into my account for the first time in like 16-17 years. can't believe the service is still up and running, and that I haven't changed my default password since then... lol

73117649 :D

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Honestly with all the changes to Instagram I find myself using the app less and less. The changes I'm thinking about are ads in the feed and random content to drive engagement.

Both of these things are driving me to use the app less.

I'm realizing that Facebook does two things builds a social network and then strip mines it off all value.

<comment><USER10> For some reason I have never seen an ad in Instagram. (And yes, I do use it...)

<comment><USER11> I see ads on Instagram all the time. Just scrolling through two days of my feed (but it's hard to tell, because it's not chronological anymore), I see some ads from therealcost, xbox, lovepop cards, kelloggs frosted flakes, m&m's chocolate, some music festival, instagram itself, and six posts from accounts I don't follow, as part of its new 'Recommended for You' (aka garbage I don't care to see) sections. Perhaps I fit their demographics, so I get more of them.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> The title doesn't match the article's content: the content primarily notes that Facebook's own messaging apps Messenger, WhatsApp, and seemingly, in the article's interpretation, Instagram-as-a-messaging app are siphoning screen- time away from Facebook itself, but Instagram is the least likely to present an a true threat.

After all, Instagram lends itself well to high-margin brand advertising, interest-based advertising, and hyperlocal content. It's hardly a problem that certain demographics spend less time on Facebook and go on Instagram instead, especially if these demographics are quite valuable on their own.

Even the article admits that the more traditional messaging networks like Messenger and WhatsApp are harder to monetize. They have had some experiments the past [1] but with so many competitors, user resistance is a risk.

[1] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13489098#13489554](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13489098#13489554)

</comment><comment><USER13> Facebook doesn't just have a Whatsapp and Instagram "problem". They have a core Facebook problem.

The Facebook app and websites have barely innovated in years and the changes they HAVE made have slowly but steadily eroded the core user experience. What was once a SOCIAL NETWORK - a place where friends could come together or new friendships were made - has become a disjointed "news" feed full of gossip, fake news, Russian propaganda or US politics division. All this interspersed with cat pics and buzzfeed top ups.

It's hard to find and enjoy the 'social' aspect of this social network if it's full of oddly unedited "news" footage.

<comment><USER14> 10 years ago I would routinely go to facebook and see friends saying what they were planning to do and make plans with them. Facebook served a real purpose in college (we got it my junior year iirc).

Now its nearly all trash. People bitching, posting memes, sharing slideshows, etc. The only thing I go there for is 1 specific local group and even that is pointless because there is a discord.

Facebook is essentially dead to me, and certainly dead to all my younger cousins 15-19 yos. I feel like I must be missing something, because I have no idea why anyone would visit. It's so negative and low quality.

<comment><USER15> Same here. Though I have no way of disambiguating what is FB changing and what is me and my friends getting 10 years older.

<comment><USER16> I think it's just something that happens with growth. At first it's a small group and it's cool, then your group gets larger, it's still cool, but now more to manage.. then at some point the group gets so large that unless you're trying to push something, there's often very little that you want to say to your 3rd grade teacher, some guy you met on a bus, your old roommate from ten years ago, your boss, and your grandparents all at the same time.

<comment><USER17> I disagree. There were very specific product changes Facebook made a while back that fundamentally changed the experience of using Facebook. It was all related to Facebook trying to clone Twitter: public posts by default, emphasis on news articles, emphasis on paid content, deprecation of events, deprecation of groups, and deprecation of photos.

With the implosion of Twitter, Facebook has since undone a lot of these changes, but the damage had already been done. People had already learned to stop going to Facebook to be social.

<comment><USER18> I don't remember them deprecating events (though I'd believe it), and I definitely don't remember them deprecating photos (like, that one I am having a hard time even conceptualizing, given how awkwardly core Photos has been to Facebook feature set for as long as I've been using it, which has been a very very long time now). Can you provide more context for this?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> > When the sector first started emerging, Facebook could have battened down > the hatches and played a defensive hand. Instead, it did what the bravest > companies do: it decided to disrupt itself before the competition did.

Yes, buying all the competition.

</comment><comment><USER20> Ultimately it is really quite hard to monetize a platform that is so easy to implement with so little product differentiation. People use messaging for messaging. I don't care if you have better emojis. I will certainly leave if you show me adverts. If it really turns out that most people only want simple messaging apps then maybe there isn't that much money in it. Maybe that's ok.

<comment><USER21> The problem is that there is something of a network effect at play. It might be okay between a couple of people but I'm in some group chats on Whatsapp and Messenger and it would be difficult to move away from those as you'd have to get buy in from everyone in the group.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Messenger apps, more than anything are screaming out for decentralisation. I'm not sure what the solution is - none of the major clients operate outside of a centralised model yet - and it's incredibly difficult to counteract the hive effect when it comes to these kinds of services.

Messenger apps are also inherently highly personal. It's your primary means of communication in the digital age. The idea of ads being injected into that experience appalls me.

<comment><USER23> I've posted a link earlier about 'Scuttlebutt' (and the actual client on top of it, Patchwork), which is kind of a decentralized Facebook.

It's main innovation, as far as I can tell, is that it uses the real world as a model for its approach. Your content spreads as 'gossip', peer to peer (over LAN/wifi), but also propagates through 'pubs' that are internet-accessible.

What first made me interested is that the Patchwork client is quite user- friendly and I've noticed that the relatively small group of current users are _not_ all tech-savvy. That's something of an achievement. Furthermore, some other options I've looked into strike me as either unrealistically decentralized, or too (pragmatically?) centralized.

Anyways, even as just as a look into how thing could work different I can highly recommend checking out these types of alternatives!

<comment><USER24> This is an extremely interesting project, but when I logged in I found it difficult to find someone to interact with.

It might be that I joined a pub with very little traffic, I haven't spent much time on it and I plan to have another look when I have some free time.

<comment><USER23> You might have to poke around the channels and, more importantly, follow people that you find interesting. That should liven things up a bit.

That said, I suppose the whole thing is inherently quieter than something like Facebook or a forum because it's decentralized and, of course, still a small community at this point. And quite possibly the whole point is not to be as busy as other social platforms :).

<comment><USER24> Thanks for the advice, following people made it much more interesting.

I also started to appreciate what's the price for decentralization: after following just a couple of users I already have several hundreds megabytes downloaded.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> I didn't quite understand, what is the problem with Instagram? It's too popular? Or just that it's not dropping in popularity vs Facebook (due to their recent adjustments)?

I wouldn't consider Instagram to be a messaging app - in fact they're spinning off another app from Instagram just to do messaging (because it's not exactly great at that).

It sounds to me more like Facebook might have some problem and Instagram is just doing it's own thing (as are Facebook's other services).

<comment><USER26> Somehow I completely missed the news about the standalone Instagram messaging app (called Direct, for anybody interested). Looks like I should jump ship just like I did with Facebook before it's too late.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> _But, the problem with messaging apps is that no one has really worked out how to monetise them yet_

Not sure this is true; back in the day BlackBerry used to be the combo of the handset + backend services provided by RIM, including BBM, which they charged a fiver a month for and people didn't mind paying it. If RIM had been willing to take the risk of extending BBM to other devices (sooner and better) perhaps the whole world would be paying them a vig now.

Apple's iMessage is arguably monetised in advance by hardware sales, and I've only recently learned does group chat too.

</comment><comment><USER28> Humanity has a Facebook problem. But it's not just Facebook at fault. Overconsumption is humanity's trait.

</comment><comment><USER29> I always think of it like this: if Google fell apart, the world as we know would change if. If twitter/facebook fell apart, my day to day life would not change in any way.

<comment><USER30> I have played the same mind game. Literally nothing would change for me if facebook/twitter/instagram/snapchat ceased to exist now. Whatsapp I use but with friends who I have other contact info, like a phone number... Google on the other hand is immensely useful.

It still amazes me that there are so many billions of advertising dollars to prop up something as useless as facebook and their snowflake-innovator-genius engineers with over 100k salaries.

<comment><USER31> Then probably you haven't understood one of the biggest user needs - <USER2> don't want to "be bored". They constantly want some entertainment as stimulus.

Look at people around you (grocery checkout lines or bus stop or subway or Starbucks) - everyone is glued to their phone screens. And Facebook is the ultimate magnet to waste those 2-5 min wait times one has to endure every so often. Earlier, people would get bored waiting in line, or strike conversations with strangers or just muse over random thoughts. No more. All that attention has gone to their smartphones.

And advertisers are simply following those eyeballs. Since Facebook manages to capture so much attention of so many humans, they rake in billions.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> They've put ads in my fb messenger and damn them to hell for it. I've actively stopped using it now.

<comment><USER33> It's the way they broke the mobile web messaging experience that bothered me. Even if I turn on desktop mode the input box deletes the last word when I press space.

It used to be fine, minimal and functional. I won't install any fb app, I just want to use it on the web.

<comment><USER34> > I won't install any fb app, I just want to use it on the web.

FB app on ipad disallows pinch/zoom. You better be damn happy with the font sizes they dictate. Or you could stick with the web version.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> > For video, expect the messaging apps to start acting as virtual TV > programming guides and remote controls for what will likely be a semi- > scheduled ad supported and premium video offering.

wat

</comment><comment><USER36> It's really unfortunate that Facebook was allowed to buy WhatsApp. This could have been good news, and maybe it still is since end-to-end encrypted messaging apps may not enable the same data abuse as Facebook's social network. Still would have been nicer if it was a separate entity.

Also, pretty insane Instagram numbers. Now that is a service I really don't get, yet considering how many people use it, it can't just be being too old.

<comment><USER17> Instagram is Facebook where the news feed is only photos. People want that. People also wanted that out of Facebook, but Facebook became the unsocial network when it tried to clone Twitter so everyone flocked to Instagram to be social again.

And also, there are insanely good professional photographers on Instagram and some people just like looking at pretty photos instead of thumbnails grabbed from political news articles.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> Out of curiosity, how much infrastructure goes into making a messaging app?

My gut feeling is that you can run a messaging app for a million users on the same infrastructure you would use to run Facebook for 1000 users. So having a messenger app with a ton of users and no monetization is bad, but not _that_ expensive?

<comment><USER38> Near the end, AIM was run by a handful of people at aol and maybe 100 servers in a datacenter at the most.

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> You know Facebook has a problem when a social network has become anti social.

All I see on Facebook is friends of friends fighting over politics with other friends of friends, fake news, stupid animal pics, people with low self esteem hunting for the likes, stupid mainstream commentary, "look at me how awesome I am" status updates, rants where everyone feels to be treated unfairly by the world because of [insert the single characteristic about yourself where you can pretend to be discriminated], etc.

I only go to Facebook for one reason now, to check that I'm not missing a birthday of some close extended family. This takes me about 1 minute every day and then I don't visit FB for another 24 hours.</comment>


China coal mine approvals surge despite climate pledges - <AUTHOR> https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-china-coal-climate/china-coal-mine-approvals-surge-despite-climate-pledges-idUKKCN1UW0EM <comment><USER2> > China is convinced it can continue to raise coal production and consumption > while significantly reducing emissions. It has made "ultra-low emissions" > technology mandatory in all new coal power plants an is also improving mine > zoning regulations to ensure pollution is minimized.

Supposedly, 80% of their total coal-fired power is using this "ultra low emissions" tech. In this aspect, it seems to be ahead of the US. China is setting some quite ambitious goals wrt emissions, will be interesting to watch their progress.

<comment><USER3> These "ultra low emissions" coal plants are designed to limit emissions of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, and particulates. If all the emissions control equipment is used as designed it will reduce acid rain and smog. It won't reduce carbon dioxide emissions though.

The other problem that China has had is getting coal plants to run their emissions control equipment all the time, even when inspectors aren't on site: [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-coal-power/china- of...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-coal-power/china-offers-bonus- to-coal-power-plants-to-meet-emissions-rules-idUSKBN0TS11320151209)

 _Beijing has spent billions of yuan creating a surveillance system to monitor companies around the clock. In 2013, the state launched a nationwide crackdown after the Ministry of Environmental Protection accused plants of trying to cut costs by turning off or manipulating emissions control equipment._

See here for a description of what emissions the ultra low emissions designation addresses: [https://www.chinadialogue.net/blog/7638-Can-ultra-low- emissi...](https://www.chinadialogue.net/blog/7638-Can-ultra-low-emissions- technology-save-coal-powered-firms-/en)</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Old forums you used to visit? - <AUTHOR> Anyone else remember the days before StackExchange, reddit and hacker news? When phpBB and vBulletin reigned supreme? I'm feeling a bit nostalgic today, remembering the forums of yesteryear.
My personal trajectory was runescape -> runevillage -> php -> phpfreaks -> neverside -> sitepoint -> digitalpoint -> wickedfire. I was between 10-13 years old at the time and those forums sparked my interest in programming. At the time my parents thought I was wasting my time, but man am I glad 15 years later I took that path.
What forums did you visit? <comment><USER2> ChipsandDips and kuro5hin.org were two of my faves.</comment>


U.N. eyes curbs on Internet anonymity - <AUTHOR> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html?tag=nl.e703 <comment><USER2> I feel that as the United States has lost some international status and openly disregarded the UN, the UN has become co-opted by those who have stayed in the game (often China, Russia, and right-wing states). As the UN Human Rights Council gets into defining defaming Islam as against human rights and countries like China start using the UN to quasi-legalize/justify their brutality on basic human rights issues, it just seems like the UN has lost its way.

But maybe I'm naive. Maybe the UN was never meant to live up to its charter or expectations.

<comment><USER3> The UN's behavior is nothing new - it's pretty much always been this way.

It's the United NATIONS - it is concerned with states and govts, the majority of which are totalitarian. The individual rights frosting is full of weasel words and is basically intended to give regimes that kill their citizens the ability to point to other countries and say "they're doing bad too".

The UN has, however, become more effective at random corruption.

Yes, the UN had some role in reducing smallpox. We can argue about that would have happened faster and with less cost if the UN hadn't been involved.

Perhaps the UN's greatest sin is that it sets things up so basically decent countries like the Netherlands become involved in atrocities. Then again, the Dutch still support the UN, so ....

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> It's not just the internet where they want to restrict freedom. The US is now the only nation that allows over-the-counter sales of natural/herbal medications without first jumping thru beauracraticatic hoops. Even then permission is often not granted.

</comment><comment><USER5> Laws like this will just push _everyone_ into using Tor. There will always be one country that doesn't sign this, and that's where the Tor nodes will live. (And AFAIK, running a Tor node in the US isn't a legal liability right now -- common carrier and all that.)

Of course, I suppose that country could be removed from the Internet, but I think the world governments are too incompetent for that to happen. Another option is for the UN to make a lot of fake Tor nodes, but I have a feeling those will be blacklisted in about 30 seconds after their creation.

You can't regulate the Internet -- stop trying.

</comment><comment><USER6> Sadly, few people understand the value of freedom.

</comment><comment><USER7> OH NOES! No moar 4chan?</comment>


Show HN: Tabbie, a tab manager for Google Chrome - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/hharnisc/tabbie <comment><USER3> I use Toby ([https://www.gettoby.com/](https://www.gettoby.com/)) for this and it's simply brilliant*

*Add The Great Suspender ([https://github.com/deanoemcke/thegreatsuspender](https://github.com/deanoemcke/thegreatsuspender)) if you have a tab-hoarding problem

<comment><USER4> I find Tab Snooze ([https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/tab- snooze/pdiebia...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/tab- snooze/pdiebiamhaleloakpcgmpnenggpjbcbm?hl=en)) to be better for my tab hoarding needs. I feel that if I wanted to organize all my tabs I would just use bookmarks to do so rather than Toby. With Tab Snooze, tabs will automatically recall themselves on a set schedule - once or recurring - <USER2> "someday" randomly which is fun. I did install Great Suspender which will also help me a lot.

<comment><USER5> Nice - would be super interesting if I could snooze at work and open at home!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Thoughts:

* Super simpe, I like it

* Nice colorful icon easy to spot

suggestions

* save all tabs by default, I honestly never even heard you could "select" tabs (ctrl click) and never used it until I found out it wasnt working and tried ctrl clicking tabs before saving them. Even after learning it I think it's a hassle for me to do that extra step. Logically speaking a session is all the tabs, I don't see how selecting tabs to save is the main use case but maybe I'm the odd one.

* Some way to replace tabs instead of opening a window. I like to keep my window centered, and unfortunately a new window is always shifted from the default position, and then if I close that one last, my windows never open in the same spot. Maybe a checkbox " replace tabs in active window" (or some general setting that won't need to be in the popup)

<comment><AUTHOR> Awesome feedback here! Starting to see some patterns on what people expect it to do. Going to fix some of this today and post an update

<comment><USER7> Great work! My suggestions (in order of importance):

* if there is >1 selected tab, change button behavior to "save selected tabs" else default to "save all tabs"

* a simple "cancel/destroy" prompt before deleting a tab group - if you are a pinboard.in user, the way maciej handles this is very nice

* show tab count in parens next to each saved group e.g. "jenkins (7)"

* search/filter box at top to quickly find tab groups

<comment><AUTHOR> These are cool! Have already pushed out a fix for the first one. There's a toggle checkbox now for that. I've added your feedback here: [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/139IKt9Y_ubvLnU3ITLHH...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/139IKt9Y_ubvLnU3ITLHHdb3svNCt0mBd4Cy5UnpYk0A/edit#gid=0). Thanks so much!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Hey Harrison!

Wow, mind blown: the popup says "save selected tabs", which made me ask the question "what do you mean, _selected_ tabs? I only have one tab at a time?", followed by experimentally shift/cmd-clicking tabs in the current window, and resulting in abovementioned mindblow.

</comment><comment><USER9> Hmmm, this seems like a minimalist version of my tab manager, Tabli: [http://www.gettabli.com](http://www.gettabli.com)

Tabli is based on a similar concept (being able to save sets of tabs with a meaningful name), but is a full-featured tab manager, allowing you to see all open tabs, switch between tabs, and revert to last saved version of a tab set.

What's the roadmap / vision for Tabbie and how does it differ from Tabli?

(To OP: If the projects seem similar enough in spirit and you'd be interested in combining forces and collaborating on Tabli, please let me know!)

<comment><USER10> Tabli looks great. Curiously, it doesn't mention that it syncs across computers; but looking at the docs I notice that it uses a folder inside Chrome's Bookmarks, so I guess you also get syncing for free—looking forward to testing it

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Can I suggest you describe it as "save your Chrome tabs" or something similar? Instead of "tab manager", "manager" being a sometimes over-used and hard to define word.

<comment><USER12> It's unclear to me in what way this lets me manage my tabs. I expect an easily browseable overview of all my tabs (because they don't fit in the tab bar anymore), and the ability to do stuff with them. Saving them for later use is absolutely an interesting option, but for some reason the screenshots show a cat, rather than a list of all my tabs.

How does the cat help in managing 200 tabs?

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Atm I use Session Buddy for that purpose what makes Tabbie different/ better to it?

</comment><comment><USER14> I use [https://www.one-tab.com](https://www.one-tab.com) and [https://github.com/deanoemcke/thegreatsuspender](https://github.com/deanoemcke/thegreatsuspender)

p.s. There is so much good links get submitted to HN combined with all that information noise this getting to homepage ? Yeah, forced. Yes, this is really sad. p.p.s. Noting personal to this particular username, just general feeling about HN.

<comment><USER15> I too use One Tab, its great. However the one downside is it doesn't sync so I had to manually export all my tabs before reinstalling the other day. They make this easy, but it's a bit of an annoyance when I'm so used to having everything in browsers synced with the cloud nowadays.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> I wrote this in another discussion:

For years my wishlist item has been a project manager that can treat a single window as a project. A bit like a stateful, window-oriented Delicious/Pinboard.

For example, say I'm looking for a sofa to buy. I might open the ones I like in a bunch of tabs to mull over. However, if I'm at work, I'd like to just close the window. Since the project manager has associated the window with a project, I can just close the window. Later, I select "Sofa hunting" from the Projects menu and off I go with the same set of tabs. If I change the tabs and close the window again, the project is automatically updated -- no need to explicitly save.

I'd go one step further: Think of the project as a "pile of bookmarks" where the visible set of tabs is a subset of all bookmarked tabs. For example, say I find a nice sofa. I add it to the pile and close the tab. The project now includes that URL, but it won't open a tab for it unless I go into the project browser and find it there and open it. So this disassociates the tab from the bookmark, but retains the "working set" that is my project session. Similar to how an IDE or editor might preserve which files I have open, but still maintain my entire project.

There are some extensions out there that do similar things, but don't get the ergonomics right. There's a couple of "session managers", but they are dumb: You "load" a session, and then "save" it. Changing the window doesn't automatically update the session, and closing the window destroys your session. Safari also lets you bookmark a bunch of tabs as a folder and reopen them again, but there's no link between the folder and the open window.

I haven't tried this extension, but on first glance it looks to me like it makes the same mistake as other tab managers? I.e. you have to manually "save" and "load" named sessions?

</comment><comment><USER6> Somewhat related:

I want a simple clean page like Safari's Favorites on iOS, with just beautiful icons (using high dpi mobile icons instead of the favicon), a simple label. Able to drag/drop to organize them however I like on a simple grid. That's all I need.

Is there an extension to do that? A beautiful grid of icons, clean, no fuss ?

Safari's Favorites on iOS is just great. I tend to use it as a "reading list" so I don't have to deal with the bookmarks for temporary things, and also for permanent sites I visit often.

The only thing I'd improve over Safari's Favorites (iOS) is to show a subtle grid when you start dragging items, and to allow user to leave empty blocks in the grid. That way you can personalize even more by arranging icons in groups (kinda like windows desktop icons with "align icons to grid").

<comment><AUTHOR> Curious how that would work in chrome, would you drag in individual tab into the chrome extension?

<comment><USER6> The behaviour can be in line with desktop.. ie. click extension to get a choice to add current page to "favorites" (assuming extension manages the new tab as well, which is where the shortcut would go). Only when in the new tab page, I'd allow drag and drop of the icons.

It's pretty nutty to think just how crude the Google Chrome default tab page is. I'm not sure why it is that way. I don't think the page screenshot is that much helpful. Some sites look good and the thumb is pretty recognizable, others are relatively random.

Actually, I wonder if an extension can pull the "apple-touch-icon-precomposed" hi dpi icons in the meta tags?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Cool stuff. Been search quite a bit recently on Chrome for something that resembles Firefox's Panorama ([https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/tab- groups-removal](https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/tab-groups-removal)), later available as an add-on ([https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/tab- groups-panorama...](https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/tab-groups- panorama/)). I've yet to find anything like it where with a key-combination you can get a visual Exposé-like grouping of your tabs.

</comment><comment><USER18> What do they gonna do with my page view statistics? Why everyone have to poison a useful tool with Analytics tracking code. If it's about to provide some usage statistics, sure they can ask and collect my usage data anonymously. But why GA?

<comment><AUTHOR> The short answer is GA because it's free and allows for collecting events. I wasn't sure how people would use the app so I wanted to measure a few events. One specific question I had at the beginning was "would people want to save and close tabs". The answer so far is yes they do, but only 15% of the time. Not sure if that means to keep or remove the feature yet though :D

A snapshot of the data I'm collecting [https://cl.ly/0Y0h0s1N3t0K](https://cl.ly/0Y0h0s1N3t0K)

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> I would recommend to write much more informative README file so your potential audience would know what to expect from this extension. These look like good resources: [https://www.ctl.io/developers/blog/post/how-to-write-a- readm...](https://www.ctl.io/developers/blog/post/how-to-write-a-readme-worth- reading) and [http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2304863/how-to-write-a- go...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2304863/how-to-write-a-good-readme)

</comment><comment><USER20> For Safari, use Sessions ([https://sessions- extension.github.io/Sessions/](https://sessions- extension.github.io/Sessions/)).

</comment><comment><USER21> There is also Spaces, not maintained, but it works flawlessly for me in multiple environments (it was broken for some time in Vivaldi, but now it works again) [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/spaces/cenkmofngpo...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/spaces/cenkmofngpohdnkbjdpilgpmbiiljjim)

</comment><comment><USER22> Works nicely. However note that you should explain CTRL on Windows, not CMD button to select. Also might want to make the highlighted tabs a bit higher contrast when CTRL-clicking as I didn't really notice at first. For usability maybe make them swap to inverse color or something more bold to convey selection.

<comment><USER23> I think the multi tab selection is not part of the extension, but is integrated in Chrome itself. I recently discovered it by accident and found it to be super helpful to do things like splitting a group of tabs into a new window.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> Does it sync?

<comment><AUTHOR> Current implementation uses the local chrome storage api (chrome.storage.local). Could probably swap that out for the sync api (chrome.storage.sync). Haven't tried that yet though [https://developer.chrome.com/extensions/storage#type- Storage...](https://developer.chrome.com/extensions/storage#type-StorageArea)

<comment><USER25> switching to sync storage is very easy as all api calls should be identical. just remember that the maximum size for stored objects is lower in sync storage (only 8mb I believe)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> I love your logo :D

</comment><comment><USER27> It's nice but I can't help but think of the limitations of Chrome extension APIs. All these Chrome tab managers put together probably only do 50% of what Tab Mix Plus does for Firefox :(

</comment><comment><USER28> Doesn't seem to have an option to add tabs to existing sessions. I take it the workflow for this requires you to open the session and re-save it with the remaining tabs?

</comment><comment><USER29> The question is, can it sync across devices? (Linux/Windows) I've been looking for a FOS alternative to TabCloud.

<comment><USER22> He says yes downthread - it now uses chrome.storage which syncs automatically.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> Cool, I might try and port this to opera!

</comment><comment><USER31> I've been using FreshStart for that for years, but I like that this one is open source.

</comment><comment><USER32> How secure is it to use these types of extensions? Are they able to sniff all my logins etc?

<comment><USER33> If you are worried if the installed-through-the-store version is the same so you could just unpack it and compare with the code release. Or pack that yourself and install it, but updates through the store should at least prompt you when the extension asks for more permissions than it currently has.

The current permissions can be seen in the manifest: [https://github.com/hharnisc/tabbie/blob/master/manifest.json](https://github.com/hharnisc/tabbie/blob/master/manifest.json)

The extension can store data (synced if you are logged in to chrome), get metadata about and manipulate your tabs (including the URL, which might be security-relevant), and can call Google Analytics.

<comment><USER32> Thank you! Exactly the type of answer I was looking for.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> Are there any tab managers that intelligently group tabs together by type/topic?</comment>


Nokia's Lumia line 'not good enough' to battle iOS and Android, say carriers - <AUTHOR> http://venturebeat.com/2012/04/17/nokias-lumia-line-not-good-enough-to-battle-ios-and-android-say-carriers/

<comment><USER2> The reality for app developers is that supporting a third platform is really stretching it. Even in the PC vs. Mac desktop world, the Mac often gets forgotten. It only has 5-7% market share so it's not worth the effort for many developers. Linux? Not a chance. I'd pay for Photoshop on Linux, really! Anyway, Linux might take off as an appliance someday, but I'm digressing.

At this point, Microsoft is probably too late. It'll sell phones to people who just want phones, but I think it's too late for the whole ecosystem. Not to worry for fans, I doubt if they'll ever give up.

<comment><USER3> I wouldn't rush that claim until Windows 8 is released. Despite the prejudice thrown at it by the Internet community (despite the product not actually being out), people will buy it. New computers will come with it. Developers will make software for it. And that software will be able to run on Windows Phone with only slight modifications.

So unless you're predicting imminent death for the company with the overwhelming majority of marketshare, people will be developing apps for Windows, which puts them 90% of the way towards having an app for Windows Phone.

<comment><USER4> >> And that software will be able to run on Windows Phone with only slight modifications.

I'd bet accomplished mobile devs would take exception to that. Changing the UI, inputs metaphors, device capabilities, etc. may not be significant to some apps, but those are are in the minority.

<comment><USER5> I was coming here to say that; this is true for crap apps. The apps which has 10 downloads in it's life and then the dev writes a post-mortem on Reddit proclaiming you cannot make money with mobile apps. UI is getting more and more important and switching from desktop to mobile is definitely not changing 10%.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> Tuna-Fish I'd say a large proportion of the carrier sales boycott of WP is simply fallout of the MS acquisition of Skype. The carriers are scared shitless about being reduced to dumb pipes, and purchasing Skype was pretty much an open declaration of war from MS.

Nice rock you tied yourself to, Nokia.

<comment> guard-of-terra Aren't they dumb pipes already? I struggle to remember any examples of their contribution to the user experience. I can remember dozens of stories where they took advantage of their clients or harmed them in other way, tho.

They better stay pipes.

<comment> Tuna-Fish They bill for texts and calls, for rates hugely separated from the data cost of the operations.

They should naturally be just dumb pipes. They are fighting tooth and nail to not to be forced to that role.

<comment><USER6> _They should naturally be just dumb pipes._

Does the fact that someone isn't wildly successful doing this indicate a market failure?

<comment> Tuna-Fish The cost of entering the market is truly staggering. I'd be ready to make the case that last-mile ISPs (which the carriers really are, they just operate with wireless) should be utilities, with all the baggage that entails, for exactly the same reason water and electricity are utilities.

<comment><USER7> I actually wish the local gas / electric company would start running fiber to people's homes. They are ok with the economics of commodity products and already have access to the home.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> _He said Microsoft's software worked nicely with PCs and allowed you "to do tons of cool things" but few customers knew this._

Isn't this what the sales reps are supposed to do? Help the customer make an informed decision? Or are they just paid to be hand the customer a phone?

Why wouldn't the conversation go like this:

Do you own a Mac or a PC? Mac: buy an iPhone, unless you care about... PC: Do you like to listen to a lot of music/are you active on Xbox Live/etc... do you use iTunes/have a lot of friends playing iPhone games... do you like (whatever mainstream aspect Android has over the competition)...

Fill in the blanks with what sales reps are paid to do. Find what your customer wants and needs, show them the phone that covers that aspect, show them the competition, make a recommendation, then let them choose. If the customer doesn't go into the store knowing 100% what they want, it's the reps place to help them understand. Not to sell them an iPhone or a Galaxy.

<comment><USER8> Presumably it has a lot to do with the ecosystem that the customer has already bought into. If they already use Google's products, then Android phones are the natural option, if iTunes then Apple. Nokia's shoved themselves into a specialist category by opting for Windows-only.

<comment><USER9> because nobody uses windows or office or xbox? This argument doesn't work

<comment><USER10> That's the point. People keep their data on Google products, using (or not) Windows machines. Windows machines are pipes to your data.

Unless you depend on Office, which doesn't run on the phone anyway. And they already have Xboxes - they don't need matching phones.

<comment><USER9> According to wiki Hotmail has more users than Gmail [1]. You and I might think they are just tools and they don't know what they are doing since gmail just blows hotmail out of the water in every respect, but it is popular. I don't think there is any other Google product that would be as popular as gmail.

Office does run on the phone! It's not full featured of course but you can do basic editing and reading... see [2] for early version

There are plenty of games on the phone which have some connection to similar games on xbox through Xbox Live - achievements. I think that Microsoft could do more to improve the standing of WP7 in the Xbox live - it's available on other platforms and some games are released even first for iPhone and then for WP7

But overall I think WP7 has quite some association with the ecosystem.

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmail>

[2] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drbjT2dUtQA&feature=fvst](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drbjT2dUtQA&feature=fvst)

<comment><USER10> I'm not sure - it's a different public. I'm not sure the features set and ecosystem integration of WP7 appeal to the average smartphone user.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> It's the same argument that Microsoft reps made against using Mac OS, Linux, BeOS, NeXTSTEP, etc. on the desktop. "You need to go with the most installed base / most apps to not waste your money".

I get the feeling that Microsoft / Nokia is going to have to aggressively go after the pre-pay and feature phone market. They need something that undercuts the price and makes money for all the independents that sell phones. Android and iPhone are not players in the pre-pay market.

<comment><USER11> That would be a really great strategy. I love the pricing style of prepaid plans, but the phone selection is horrible. I always end up unlocking a smartphone and hacking it onto a prepaid plan.

If Microsoft could also make data more available/affordable for prepaid plans, it would definitely be a hit.

<comment><USER7> I am actually surprised one of the Android-based companies who isn't winning doesn't make an attempt at that market. It gets you the market share and makes it easier to upsell customers on your "premium" versions.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> "No one comes into the store and asks for a Windows phone."

Of course not. People come into the store and ask for a phone the does "the email and stuff", and walk out with some Samsung model they've previously never heard of.

Microsoft is currently paying AT&T to push the Nokia Lumia. The rest of the carriers have zero incentive to push Windows Phone devices when companies like Samsung and LG are so willing to customize their Android devices to each carrier's whim.

<comment> guard-of-terra Which is a selling point, by the way. The device in pristine state not touched by carriers is obviously better than "customized" one.

<comment><USER13> it's not a selling point. a selling point is something that a salesperson can take advantage of to make a sale, and "my employer hasn't fucked this phone up as much as they have those other ones" isn't something a salesperson can tell a customer.

lack of carrier crap is a feature, but it's not an advertisable one. even microsoft can't advertise it, because they have relationships with carriers to maintain.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> How about letting customer's decide? I cannot wait until carriers (and ISPs) are dragged kicking and screaming down to the level of basic utility pipe providers they really are.

<comment><USER15> From my limited experience all I've heard is the people who have them love them but the people who sell them push people to other platforms. I've always heard talk of kickbacks for selling one phone over another.

For the vast majority of people out there just about any of the decent smartphones will work for them, they just have to play with them to decided which one they like best. Arguments over things like "not enough apps" or "too much fragmentation" is most likely not an issue (knowingly or unknowingly) to most shoppers.

It seems logical to assume that the sales guy will push you towards the phone he needs to sell, whether due to kickbacks, quotas, or management pressure. This is done regardless of the wants and needs of the customer. Part of my reasoning behind this is just the general behavior of these companies towards their customers to begin with.

<comment><USER16> The 'kickbacks' usually come in the form of retail 'educational programs'. The most effective of these are of the form: (pretend to) read some articles, take a quiz, earn some points and then redeem them for branded gadgets.

I once worked retail as a computer 'technician' for three months and I made as much in free stuff as I did in wages. (I was quite up front about my limited tenure there but I later found out why HR took no issue with that: at three months you can be the senior non-mgmt employee.) I would assume these loyalty programs are becoming even more aggressive towards retail workers and that you could even quintuple your 'salary' for the lowest paid computer/phone positions.

If you've ever wondered why Craigslist was flooded with $1000 CPUs priced to $300, now you know.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Because the carriers really know what they're doing. What a bunch of imbeciles. The first iPhone was nearly killed by the morons.

</comment><comment><USER18> This article has a good breakdown of why carriers are strongly motivated downplay Windows phones.

[http://ceklog.kindel.com/2011/12/26/windows-phone-is- superio...](http://ceklog.kindel.com/2011/12/26/windows-phone-is-superior-why- hasnt-it-taken-off/)

</comment><comment><USER19> It's amazing to realize that it took only five years for a giant like Nokia to become irrelevant in the market. That says a lot about the competitiveness and the speed of progress in the computing world.

</comment><comment><USER20> If it's the same "carrier" who put crap-load of useless, buggy malware with every android phone they sell, then who cares what they say. They clearly have no clue what is even "good enough" to weight in an opinion about Nokia.

</comment><comment><USER21> The Elopalypse continues...</comment>


Open hardware/source laptop reaches funding goal - <AUTHOR> http://crowdsupply.com/kosagi/novena-open-laptop

<comment><AUTHOR> >A new open-hardware computing platform, flexible and powerful, designed for use as a desktop, laptop, or standalone board. >Novena is a 1.2GHz, Freescale quad-core ARM architecture computer closely coupled with a Xilinx FPGA. It's designed for users who care about open source, and/or want to modify and extend their hardware: all the documentation for the PCBs is open and free to download, the entire OS is buildable from source, and it comes with a variety of features that facilitate rapid prototyping.

</comment><comment><USER2> I'm in for one (laptop version), but wondering just how close one could get off-the-shelf.

If you had $1999 to build your own version of the novena, thats as portable/powerful/free as you can make it, what could you make?

minimum requirements: 13" 1080p IPS, xilinx spartan 6 fpga or better, quad core 1.2Ghz cpu, dual 1gb nic, usb otg support, high speed gpio, 240gb intel 530 ssd

freedom bonuses: hackable case, replaceable battery, open source bios/eproms, open source gpu

My best guess is some older thinkpad + xilinx fpga eval kit + beaglebone black + usb3 gigabit ethernet dongles will still cost around $1600 but have a faster cpu/gpu and memory, but wouldn't be nearly as free/open source as this one.

Or, how much would you really save trying to start with the $500 board and make the laptop-tier version?</comment>


Show HN: NotePlan – Markdown and Calendar and Note, Has Launched - <AUTHOR> http://noteplan.co/ <comment><AUTHOR> We are on [https://producthunt.com](https://producthunt.com). Search "NotePlan" and ask us anything!

What can NotePlan do?

It's a writing tool with calendar and notes. You write a note for every day using bullet points for todos or events. Those points will fill your calendar. If you want a normal note, use the standalone notes area, where you can just jot down things for later. Format your text using Markdown. You can schedule todos to specific dates and add them to the Reminders app. Events from external calendars are also displayed inside the NotePlan calendar and the daily notes, if you have added them to Apple's Calendar app (you can add your Google Calendar there for example or anything with a subscription).

Let me know what you think of it! If you subscribe on the website, a trial link is sent into your inbox.

</comment><comment><USER2> This looks pretty cool! I don't see any mention of org-mode, which seems like an inspiration. How would you compare the two?

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey, thats the second time I read "org-mode"! I have never seen org-mode before, but it looks like Markdown on steroids. NotePlan's syntax is not so extensive like org-mode, kept rather simple, but I will extend it over time, depending on usability. Thanks for mentioning it!

<comment><USER3> One feature of org-mode that might be worth considering is that it is cross platform. Because NotePlan is tied to OSX, I can't try it out, let alone use it.

Org-mode has been around for more than a decade and is open source and on a platform Emacs that has a high hacker to non-hacker ratio.

Not that I'm recommending building up an application in C. But Electron might be an option for an org-mode like cross platform application.

Good luck.

<comment><AUTHOR> NotePlan is written in Qt, so cross-platform can be managed. I'm going to get an iOS version out of the door, then I'll rethink Windows and Linux and Android. Thanks!</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Backlift (YC W12) Launches A Back-End Service For Front-End Developers - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2013/04/10/yc-backlift-launch/

<comment><USER2> Having been primarily a backend developer for most of my career, I generally view these services with suspicion.

But the rate of new entries into this space makes me wonder if one day I'll be considered a luddite for thinking this way.

<comment><USER3> I have had the same reaction. I am not sure what customer pain these services are addressing. Even if it made prototyping and MVP developing vastly easier, what happens if the product starts to take off? The lock-in seems dramatic, but I could be off-base.

<comment><USER4> As a UX Designer and front-end guy a lot of the appeal is being able to build something functional without a lot of help.

You are correct about the taking off part. If any of my ideas were to take off then I would need to swap out one of these services for an actual back-end.

<comment><USER3> Perhaps it is my own lack of experience with the services themselves, but I feel like if you are equipped to build out a complete front-end javascript application, you are probably equally qualified to bang out a little server- side API that will be suitable for you. Call me old fashioned, but I feel like this new cottage industry might just be a bridge too far...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Was playing with Backlift not too long ago (They have nice Backbone [1] and AngularJS [2] tutorials using their backend) and it looks promising, but I haven't got the chance to really do a comparison with Firebase (isn't it also a YC company?)

What are the differences between Backlift and Firebase (or Parse)? What are the value add features? What things are done differently / better?

[1] [http://gun.io/blog/Building-Backbone.js-apps-with- Backlift-V...](http://gun.io/blog/Building-Backbone.js-apps-with-Backlift- Views-and-Templates/)

[2] <https://blog.backlift.com/entry/angular-tut1>

</comment><comment><USER6> We have been using backlift as a teaching aid for an intro to programming class at the Nashville Software School. It has been a great way to allow the students to deploy code and test api's without the normal burdens of server setup or ssh/ftp.

Having the examples in the latest javascript frameworks has also been extremely helpful in allowing the students to dig further in.

<comment><USER7> I echo what pbrumm said. As a student at Nashville Software School, I can attest that using Backlift was a lifesaver. It has allowed us to focus on our code instead of being bogged down with the server side. Before it came to our rescue we were spending enormous amounts of time just trying to figure out how to test our code, after we implemented it we were actually able to make progress and resume programming.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> As someone who spent years as a front-end developer, and now am something more of a "full stack" developer (I like the title "Product Developer"), I would _highly_ encourage people who consider themselves front-end to spend some time learning about things behind the scenes. You'll become an overall better developer for it.

Not to disparage this service, but I worry that it's just going to encourage a new generation of folks to never actually learn to actually develop software, and continue the less than great nature of much JS in the wild.

</comment><comment><USER9> Hi if you're having trouble creating projects, we apologize. We recently moved to a build process that pulls packages directly from Github, and unfortunately that code is acting up. We're working on it.

<comment><USER10> Thanks for the update. I ran into "unexpected error" when trying to create a project but they ended up appearing when I refreshed the page. Then somehow I landed on: <https://test-lozige.backliftapp.com/>

<comment><USER9> This is an example of a partially downloaded app. There should have been a bundle of bootstrap stylesheets pulled from github, which didn't make it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Congrats on launching! We've had to build a lot of this ourselves internally, and all the time were thinking if there's value in it for others. This is a very interesting space indeed and I do believe that it's the future. The real question is - are we too early?)

What you're really are providing is a set of APIs. Perhaps calling it "backend as a service" actually scares people off, as they don't realize that they can be using custom server logic as well, and calling it via CORS from backbone. This is just a bunch of APIs that anyone can use.

I think instead of having a backend, we'll move to an app using a set of APIs provided by other companies (firebase, sendgrid, backlift, etc) and custom APIs that may be necessary.

With javascript and CORS it's finally feasible to call remote functions directly from the cilent, eliminating the need to write boilerplate code for every app.

</comment><comment><USER12> Back lift is awesome! You can setup a json server in 3 minutes tops. I have several apps I run off back lift and it is amazing! The developer heard that a class that I'm in used it and he flew in to talk to us about the app and to get our feedback. He really cares about his users' experience while using his material. I can't recommend back lift enough.

</comment><comment><USER13> I'm a student currently enrolled in a Web Dev Bootcamp program in Nashville,TN, learning about all the basics to front end development. We found ourselves needing to utilize a tool for basic server-side storage for a class project, and happened upon Backlift. This tool has been perfect for the apps that we've been building, and it couldn't have been easier to setup and get running. More impressively, when I found myself needing help with modifying some of my stored data, the founder himself was eager to help me find a solution. Great service!

</comment><comment><USER14> Does the opposite exist? Front-end services for back-end developers?

<comment><USER15> Yes, it's called Bootstrap =P

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> I think BaaS is a great solution for mobile apps. But as a back-end solution for traditional web apps, not so much. Eventually their lunch is going to be eaten by frameworks like Meteor (<http://meteor.com>), or products like Deployd (<http://deployd.com/>).

<comment><USER17> I disagree. Meteor and Deployd can definitely provide an interesting solution to certain kind of apps, but not all. That is the beauty of the web. This market is very very new, the best is yet to come in the web arena.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> I think this is a fuckin' great idea! I started out as a front-end developer and I would get discouraged when I couldn't see my work deployed in action. Wish this was around a few years ago!

</comment><comment><USER19> How does Backlift compare to Parse?

<comment><USER20> It doesn't have anything to do with Parse's business. Visit the link.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> How do they solve authentication?

<comment><USER9> Backlift has an auth api that it uses to establish a user session. As users create and modify data during their session, backlift checks to ensure that the user has appropriate permissions. More data is available here: [http://backlift.github.io/docs/authorization.html#authorizat...](http://backlift.github.io/docs/authorization.html#authorization)</comment></comment>


Ask HN: On Hydroxychloroquine - <AUTHOR> It was tested in 26 patients while 6 didn't do well (one of them even died) and it wasn't even randomized nor labeled.<p>What can go wrong ? And what are the side effects medicine/scientic explained ? <comment><USER2> [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-020-0156-0?error=cook...](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-020-0156-0?error=cookies_not_supported&code=fc133084-328a-49a3-b105-e688bde44d5c)</comment>


Shared genetics between cognitive functions and physical and mental health - <AUTHOR> http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/mp2015225a.html <comment><USER2> There was research in bees some years ago that also tested this hypothesis and found evidence for a genetic link between robustness and intelligence:

[http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/old-and- wise/](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/old-and-wise/)

Also see this from last year:

[http://www.lse.ac.uk/newsAndMedia/news/archives/2015/07/Link...](http://www.lse.ac.uk/newsAndMedia/news/archives/2015/07/Link- between-intelligence-and-longevity-is-mostly-genetic.aspx)

"They found that, within twin pairs, the brighter twin tends to live longer than the less bright twin and this was much more pronounced in fraternal (non identical) twins than in identical twins."

The intriguing question here is the identity of the dominant mechanism behind the web of associations in human demographic data that link education, intelligence, social status, wealth, and life expectancy. The safe assumption has long been that better lifestyle choices and better use of (and access to) medical services were the driving force here, with smarter people doing better in both of those. Exercise and calorie intake have large effects in comparison to other factors that can be pinned down. It is generally thought that genetics plays little role in mortality until very late life; if it turns out an intelligence-robustness link is meaningful in comparison to exercise and calorie intake, that'll be a turnaround for the consensus. Though extracting compelling evidence from the statistics will be a real feat of arms.

<comment><USER3> > It is generally thought that genetics plays little role in mortality until > very late life

I don't understand this at all. Risky behavior is largely driven by being male, a genetic effect. Within males, it is _still_ largely driven by genetics. Terminal diseases that strike young people are also often genetic problems. How could it be generally thought that genetics plays little role in early-life mortality? What are all the early deaths that are viewed as not implicating genetics?

<comment><USER3> So, I found US death data by age and sex for 2007 ( [http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/mortfinal2007_worktable310....](http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/mortfinal2007_worktable310.pdf) )

Here are male deaths, expressed as a percentage of female deaths, for every year of age from 0 to 30:

         0  127%
         1  119%
         2  130%
         3  131%
         4  142%
         5  138%
         6  123%
         7  129%
         8  122%
         9  125%
        10  126%
        11  152%
        12  143%
        13  145%
        14  178%
        15  193%
        16  199%
        17  248%
        18  278%
        19  313%
        20  317%
        21  317%
        22  342%
        23  310%
        24  314%
        25  291%
        26  261%
        27  269%
        28  250%
        29  231%
        30  237%

Odds are good (I haven't checked) that the male population in this age range is larger than the female population. But it's going to be larger by less than 10%, which is completely neglible in the face of the factor-of-2-or-3 differences in deaths.

This isn't "little role in early-life mortality", it's a gargantuan genetic effect you'd have to devote quite a lot of effort to ignoring. (And if you meant something different by "early life", male deaths stay in the range of 150-200% of female deaths right up until the early 60s. Female deaths finally exceed male deaths once people hit 80 years old.)

<comment><USER4> > Female deaths finally exceed male deaths once people hit 80 years old

Absolute numbers-wise, simply because you are running out of males.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> What's with the Block? Seriously, a few br's, or spaces?

I don't expect an English paper, but more people would read these if a little bit more inviting. Or, maybe you don't want anyone to read the research? Or, this is the agreement upon format? If that's the case--sorry.</comment>


Show HN: Project-Okot: Novel, CODE-FREE data-apps in mere seconds - <AUTHOR> https://studio.nuchwezi.com/ <comment><AUTHOR> NFixx here: The intent here is to interest anyone in the community (especially a business co-founder), to get in-touch, and we form a team to see this whole amazing project deliver real value to more individuals and collectives wanting to embrace a robust data-driven workflow, without delving into programming, devops or managing analytics dashboards.

Note: The whole project consists of 4 components:

[1] The Studio: Where you design the your native/web apps (called personas in the project dialect)

[2] The Historion: A general-purpose app that can morph into any app describable by a *.persona file or other Persona spec.

[3] The Theatre: Where published personas reside atm (platform-as-a-service), so users of your app can just use it online without you configuring servers,etc. Also, this can host the data ("acts"), posted from your designed apps, so that they can be readily analyzed without further infrastructure/config on your part.

[4] The Diviner: A general-purpose, config-free, user-controlled data-analysis dashboard (there's a generic, agnostic one [5] - you can point it at any compatible data apis you have), that is automatically available for your app's data soon as you publish the persona. (there's plans to definitely offer private instances for paying clients).

[1] [https://studio.nuchwezi.com](https://studio.nuchwezi.com) [2] [https://historion.nuchwezi.com](https://historion.nuchwezi.com) [3] [https://theare.nuchwezi.com](https://theare.nuchwezi.com) [4] [https://diviner.nuchwezi.com](https://diviner.nuchwezi.com)

READ about the motivation and background of Project-Okot (and other NuChwezi work): [https://nuscribes.com/scribes_app/book/40/read/?#chapter-500](https://nuscribes.com/scribes_app/book/40/read/?#chapter-500)

I need collaborators, I need beta-testers, and BUSINESS! Okay, perhaps I need a team most of all... I'm currently in East Africa (home), but hope I can form a global team of like-minded folks. We need resources to pull this off, and perhaps some capital. But, the promise is, this technology has the potential to not only disrupt app development, but also bring the power of building and leveraging data-apps, to many more businesses, especially here in Africa.

Market Research, Scientific Education (think, ease of collecting data and running quick analysis), polls, etc can leverage this immediately...

NOTE: under active development.</comment>


HTTP.sys vulnerability test - <AUTHOR> https://lab.xpaw.me/MS15-034/?host=bing.com <comment><USER2> Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't this site DoS vulnerable servers when it checks them?

<comment><USER3> Tested a site which got reported as vulnerable and the site is still up, so I guess not :)

<comment><USER4> It seems to be checking if the server is patched I got "Cannot discern patch status of willcipriano.com, and it doesn't appear to be using IIS. This most likely means it is not vulnerable." when I checked my own site. So likely it isn't attempting to use the exploit.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I'm getting "Cannot discern patch status of X" (VulnStatus::NOT_VULN_MS) on couple of sites I tried. Wondering if that's a good or a bad sign?

<comment><USER6> That seems to mean not running IIS, or IIS is behind something sanitizing the range field (load balancer, apache/nginx, proxy, IPS, etc)

<comment><USER7> "or IIS is behind something sanitizing the range field (load balancer, apache/nginx, proxy, IPS, etc)"... If this is the case, would that mean the server is not at risk? thanks!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Sourcecode:

[https://github.com/xPaw/HTTPsys](https://github.com/xPaw/HTTPsys)

@xPaw: Nice to see you on HN, too^^

</comment><comment><USER6> How does this work? Do we have a working exploit now?

<comment><USER9> Uncharitably, how it works is the author of this link doesn't want to scan all 2^32 hosts himself, so he's asking people for URL's to their windows servers so he can reach them directly. I can't imagine a scenario where I would submit a URL.

EDIT: again, yes, there are no doubt thousands of bots doing port scans for this. In the uncharitable reading, this 'service' is how the author beats them to the punch.

<comment><AUTHOR> I guess saying that I don't log anything wouldn't matter to you.

<comment><AUTHOR> I made this service in a couple of hours because I had nothing better to do at the time :)</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Israel Shoots for the Moon with Privately Funded Spacecraft - <AUTHOR> https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/18/middleeast/israel-spacecraft-beresheet-launch-intl/index.html <comment><USER2> > The total cost of the program, raised from private donations, is $100 > million, a small fraction of the billions of dollars invested in the US > space program.

It is unclear if this is referring to current or past (space race era) investment in the US space program. Regardless, I think it is an unfair comparison.

Given NASA's current goals (_not_ moon landings) compared to the simple goal of this program (a moon landing), it is unreasonable to compare the two programs in the present day. If they are comparing the investment of SpaceIL today versus the US in the 60s, it again seems fallacious as the cost of a moon landing today is definitely much less than the cost during the space race.

SpaceIL did not have to conduct research in areas which the US and Soviet space programs did have to because SpaceIL could rely on these past programs' research. To further compare the Apollo missions to this, the US space program launched their own crafts, they were not able to lessen the cost by contracting SpaceX.</comment>


Australia's Wildfires Spark Disinformation Battle as They Take a Tragic Toll - <AUTHOR> https://www.npr.org/2020/01/10/795218092/australias-wildfires-spark-disinformation-battle-as-they-take-a-tragic-toll <comment><USER2> You can see examples of the kinda of disinformation right here: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22012427](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22012427)

Blaming arsonists, blaming "fire load" and lack of forest manangement, etc. Go listen to the rural fire chiefs: climate change is preventing management, is lengthening the season, making outbreaks more intense and causing them to spread further than before.

Meanwhile the climate denying policies of their politicians leads them to cutting service funding, preventing activism, promoting coal mining and use.

This isn't the time to be an armchair fire expert. Australia is burning and climate change is the primary factor in the seriousness of the situation.

<comment><USER3> *may be the primary factor

<comment><USER4> If root cause analysis isn't conclusive, you don't just not implement corrective actions... You act on the most likely contributing causes with no undue delay.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> _Police take legal action against more than 180 people so far during 2019 /2020 bushfire season_

The NSW Police Force has taken legal action against more than 180 people for bushfire-related offences since late last year.

Numerous bush and grass fires have impacted the state, claiming the lives of 18 people and destroying hundreds of millions of animals and livestock, thousands of homes, and more than 4.9 million hectares of land, so far this bushfire season.

Since Friday 8 November 2019, legal action – which ranges from cautions through to criminal charges – has been taken against 183 people – including 40 juveniles – for 205 bushfire-related offences.

Of note:

      24 people have been charged over alleged deliberately-lit bushfires
      53 people have had legal actions for allegedly failing to comply with a total fire ban, and
      47 people have had legal actions for allegedly discarding a lighted cigarette or match on land.

[https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/news_article?sq_content_s...](https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/news_article?sq_content_src=%2BdXJsPWh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGZWJpenByZC5wb2xpY2UubnN3Lmdvdi5hdSUyRm1lZGlhJTJGODIyNjQuaHRtbCZhbGw9MQ%3D%3D)

Source: NSW Police official webpage

<comment><USER6> Great example of the kind of misinformation this article is talking about.

[https://www.theguardian.com/australia- news/2020/jan/08/polic...](https://www.theguardian.com/australia- news/2020/jan/08/police-contradict-claims-spread-online-exaggerating-arsons- role-in-australian-bushfires)

edit: and you missed (as did everyone else reporting on this) the pertinent piece from that article, which suggests that none of the fires have yet been linked to any of these arrests.

"Investigations into the cause, origin and overall impact of fires are continuing and since the latest State of Emergency was declared last Thursday (2 January 2020), Strike Force Tronto has provided expertise to six Police Area Commands and eight Police Districts."

<comment><USER5> Misinformation? A verbatim partial copy of the police force's official statement with a link to the original source? I'm reasonably confident that a Guardian article titled "Police contradict claims spread online exaggerating arson's role in Australian bushfires" does not consider the NSW police official website as exaggerated online claims which the police are contracting. It is a police source, if they think their own website is providing false information they can take it down.

<comment><USER6> Yes, it is a good example of misinformation.

Firstly, by the NSW police for conflating the severity of the current bushfires with the people they have arrested for arson - even though they have pointed to no-one being arrested for starting any of those fires. Secondly, by everyone reporting on this article while removing the sentence which alludes to that very fact.

By your comment, did you not read the Guardian article? It expressly does consider, but did not get a response from the NSW police. The articles main argument is that these reports from police have been misused with a campaign driven in part by bots and trolls (and murdoch papers) to divert attention from the real issues.

Now while I fully believe that in time we will see actual charges laid for these bushfires, as usually happens, to report numbers before there is evidence to support it is misinformation. Particularly also, as you yourself have argued further down the thread, in that arson is secondary, or at least oblique to the very real issue of increased load and increased hot, dry and windy conditions.

<comment><USER5> > It expressly does consider, but did not get a response from the NSW police.

I read the article twice, I didn't see that. Please provide the exact quote.

> to report numbers before there is evidence to support it is misinformation

The police state "24 people have been charged over alleged deliberately-lit bushfires" \- they've reported a number of people they've charged. What evidence do you require beyond the official police statement describing how many arrests they made. An audit?

<comment><USER6> >I read the article twice

Sorry, I would not normally have suggested otherwise - I misunderstood your previous comment where you made reference to being 'reasonably confident' to the content of the article due to its title, I see now this was more rhetorical than actual.

>Please provide the exact quote.

"NSW police statistics show 24 individuals have been arrested for deliberately lighting bushfires during the current fire season."

>What evidence do you require beyond the official police statement describing how many arrests they made.

That they actually link the arson to the bushfire they have charged someone with lighting? I mean, if they charged them they have evidence right? Surely at least one of those 24 people have been charged with one of the current fires? Their comment that they are still investigating the cause of current fires suggests perhaps none of these are linked. All other reports I have seen of charges are from September through November. Why did you and everyone else reciting these stats leave the qualifying comment out?

And why conflate the figures from the pre-fire season with the current fires? Why not just say that historically, nearly half of bushfires are suspected to be deliberately lit. Or better yet, 13% of bushfires have been proven historically to be deliberately lit.

[https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-11-20/bushfire- igni...](https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-11-20/bushfire-ignition- source-how-we-know/11701132)

Do the numbers show the rate of arson this fire season worse than previous ones? If it is not, then why is it being used to suggest otherwise?

This is why I said this is a very good example of misinformation. It is objectively true on the face of what is reported, it produces a compelling narrative which is difficult to question if you are just skimming the news, while leaving out pertinent information that may complicate that narrative.

<comment><USER5> > Why did you and everyone else reciting these stats leave the qualifying > comment out?

I left out more than half of the article but provided a link to the entire source from the moment I posted it, never edited. As for the comment I believe you are referring to "Investigations into the cause, origin and overall impact of fires are continuing".

There a lot of fires and investigations are on-going. To my reading it is just police boilerplate and not a qualifying comment. If you have 100 fires and you've managed to partially investigate 30 of them but the situation was still developing with new fires popping up then you would write "Investigations into the cause, origin and overall impact of fires are continuing".

The statement is just a: Hey we've been working hard on the bushfire problem, here's some stuff we've already done but don't think we are resting on our laurels, there's more to do and we're working hard on that.

<comment><USER6> Ok, so I see you are reading this very differently to me, and appreciate your alternate point of view. I just do not believe it says what you think it says. I personally see no reason to give the NSW police the benefit of doubt, particularly when they are using obfuscating language, and have not enlarged further with any media outlets. (Not even to mention they do not have a great track record of truth with the media.) That being said, I believe they are right to call out arson as a major contributing factor to bushfire, but using those figures, and using that as an explanation for the current fires, I believe, crosses the line into misinformation. And I believe this was their intent.

That aside, and for the record, as I saw it and was arguing, there were two issues with the widespread posting of the report.

1\. The use of this report and others, without context, by MSM as an explanation in and of itself as the cause of bushfires - or at least smoke- screening to avoid talking about other causes. This misinformation, even at its best (ie similar to the way in which yours was delivered), still relies on half truths delivered without context to create a misleading narrative. These narratives in the media are being created and propelled for the express purpose to drown out substantive calls for action on climate change. You have not argued this point so I take it you at least agree with this.

2\. The report itself is misinforming. ie. it is, through vagary, suggesting these out of control bushfires in Nov-Dec were caused by arsonists, and through specificity, suggesting that these numbers were significant (if they even refer to these fires).

They are not. Australia has lower rates than most of the world in bushfire arson. There were over a hundred separate major bushfires in that period in NSW. Estimates from a previous study from 2001-2006 show that Australia on average has around 60,000 bushfires every year. Most burn themselves out reasonably quickly, or with the help of one of the rural fire services. You can no more point to arson as the cause of these particular bushfires as you could to throwing a snowball to start an avalanche. It is the literal straw breaking the camels back. In a warming world, every unusually hot dry season is a bit worse than the last. To stop bushfires there is only one thing that makes a makes a difference - water content. Not arson, not undergrowth, not fuel load.

Here is a great series of images from NASA, again via the Guardian, to explain how these fires spread, and how quickly. You can see the change in directions of the fires due the winds. Entire regions lit up or burnt out in a day. Its fucking terrifying.

[https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2019/nov/21/how- au...](https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2019/nov/21/how-australias- bushfires-spread-mapping-the-nsw-and-queensland-fires)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> The ignition source is really not relevant, that's the final step in a long chain and will happen naturally at some point. We should just disregard the arson narrative entirely (not that it shouldn't be punished, just that it's not an independent variable to be discussed).

<comment><USER8> Why?

<comment><USER9> Because arson isn't a key factor in the overall problem; it's basically background noise. If you used a time machine to remove the arsonists from the timeline, Australia would _still_ be in a horrible fire season this year.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> The ignition source for a bushfire isn't relevant. What creates the necessary conditions for severe bushfire? Long periods of hot and dry weather leads directly to large amounts of easily combustible material - fire danger ratings and total fire bans are issued on this basis.

Any ignition source, deliberate, accidental or natural can set it off. Yes arson happens, no the arsonist(s) didn't create the conditions necessary to burn a million hectares, he merely provided the ignition source.

<comment><USER10> Exactly. With all the dry vegetation in place and ongoing drought, a dry lightning strike eventually would have done the same thing an arsonist didn't.

<comment><USER5> Eventually? Probably did do the same thing. There are hundreds of individual fires across the country thousands of kilometers apart. With so many fires there were likely a lot of different ignition sources, lightning easily could have been one.

[https://www.bbc.com/news/world- australia-50951043](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-50951043)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Articles like this are the disinformation campaign, they go on for 8 paragraphs before they admit that it's true that 180 people have been charged with fire related offenses, including arson. If they want to argue that arson isn't an emergency, and isn't the real issue that's one thing. But claiming it's a disinformation claim is just, well, disinformation if there are actual confirmed cases of arson.

<comment><USER12> Why wasn't it an emergency before these wider fires then?

<comment><USER11> Because the emergency is the amount of damage the fires are doing and wider fires do more damage.

<comment><USER13> And what is the cause of the difference in the amount of damage now vs. then? (Hint: It's not the arson.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I've seen a lot more misinformation spreading about the scope of the wildfires than I have about any arson narrative.

[https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs- trending-51020564](https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-51020564)

<comment><USER15> > As some Twitter users pointed out, maps that claim to show the size of the > affected area by "overlaying" Australia on to other continents like North > America and Europe are not completely accurate.

> This is due to how how the curved earth is distorted when flat map > projections are made.

Hm, this seemed wrong as the images looked correct. Using [https://thetruesize.com/#?borders=1~!MTYzMzA1NTk.ODg5NTU3MQ*...](https://thetruesize.com/#?borders=1~!MTYzMzA1NTk.ODg5NTU3MQ*MjI1NzE4NDU\(MTE0NzEyNTk~!AU*MTQ0NjUzNjU.MTI4Nzg2Nzg\)NA) I checked myself, and images looks correct, both when comparing the US and Europe with Australia. Am I misunderstanding something?

<comment><USER16> You are missing the nuances of various map projections[0], perhaps.

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_projection](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_projection)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> >Around the same time the bot campaign hit its crescendo, news stories about the wildfires also touted a police report in hard-hit New South Wales, where authorities recently announced that they have taken legal action against more than 180 people for fire-related offenses.

Believe it or not, it's actually the other way around. People committed and were arrested for the arson before bot campaigns started spreading the narrative that arson had been committed. Between this and the Gizmodo article, it's confusing why news sites are trying to obfuscate the objective fact that people were charged with arson. Who wins here?

The gizmodo article, which was even more egregious and got completely ripped on social media: [https://earther.gizmodo.com/its-not-arson-you-absolute- fucki...](https://earther.gizmodo.com/its-not-arson-you-absolute-fucking- morons-1840862475)

"It's not arson, you absolute fucking morons"

<comment><USER18> I was tuned into 2GB and heard Alan Jones make the argument, (no surprises here):

93% [I think, something high...] bush-fires are not started by natural causes ... all this climate change rubbish!

The arson narrative is that the arsonists are causing the fires, not climate change. Because, in this world view, everything bad can only have one factor contributing to it's cause.

No one says "yes there is an arson problem but if they didn't start the fire there is a good chance something else would have started a fire in thousands of sq km of bush, and the fact that all the bush is super dry and it's very hot means it is most likely that would start a fire anyway." because that's too long and boring and doesn't fit in a tweet let alone a hash tag.

<comment><USER19> Even if we accept "all the bush is super dry and it's very hot means it is most likely that would start a fire anyway", this is still far from linking the fires to climate change.

I am not saying it is not linked to climate change, but to establish scientific evidence to this causal link requires complicated analyses.

Why am I getting downvoted for this? Someone care to explain?

<comment><USER20> You need complicated analysis to correlate the prolonged drought and all-time record breaking heat to climate change?

Why are you putting climate change in quotes? Even hardcore paid Oil shills don't deny climate change at this point, they only deny that it's anthropogenic.

The bureau of meteorology even made a pretty infographic showing the effects of climate change: [http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/history/temperature/](http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/history/temperature/)

<comment><USER19> What? I never noticed I put those quotes... Weird. I just removed the quotes. ...

On the main point. Yes, correlation is easy. Causation? I don't know, because I don't work in climate science. Is obvious correlation sufficient to establish causation in climate science?

<comment><USER13> So, your suggestion is that the dry forests cause climate change? Or is it the fires? Or does a common cause cause climate change and dry forests and fires, but the forests drying out has nothing to do with temperatures?

Like, are you seriously asking whether scientists have looked into whether high temperatures and low rainfall cause dry forests and whether dry forests burn more easily? Do you really think it is a big unsolved question in science whether hot air dries stuff and whether dry stuff burns more easily than wet stuff, and maybe it's actually dry stuff that makes air hot and the fire causes the things to have been less wet before they burned?

<comment><USER19> Is it possible some other climate factors, other than climate change, caused dry forests and fires?

Are you saying without climate change, this Australia wildfire would never have happened?

<comment><USER13> > Is it possible some other climate factors, other than climate change, caused > dry forests and fires?

That's not just possible, it is obviously the case. But that's simply the wrong question.

> Are you saying without climate change, this Australia wildfire would never > have happened?

No, I am obviously not saying that, and it is again the wrong question.

The whole error here is thinking that there is one single cause. There isn't. Tons of factors contribute to in the end the fires that we are seeing now. As is unavoidably the case in such situations, you essentially never can directly relate any small aspect of the result to any particular causing factor. But that does not make it wrong to say "X caused Y".

Smoking causes lung cancer. It is nonsensical to reply to that "Is it possible some other health factors, other than smoking, cause lung cancer?" or "Are you saying without smoking, we would not have any lung cancer?" Just because it is hypothetically possible that in some random year all lung cancer cases could have causes other than smoking, which we would never know, does not make it wrong to state that smoking causes lung cancer. We know statistically that smoking causes lung cancer, and we know statistically how many lung cancer cases we can avoid by not smoking. Whether any particular case of lung cancer was caused by smoking is simply completely irrelevant.

<comment><USER19> But we are talking about the specific case here, aren't we?

<comment><USER13> No, we are talking about hundreds of fires.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Gotta love this worldview that the one thing that cannot possibly ever have a negative effect is policy making.

<comment><USER22> moomin, you might enjoy the "The Fillyjonk Who Believed In Disasters" if you haven't read it already.

<comment><USER21> That is a rather excellent piece of work and a great example of "Jansson wrote children's stories for adults."

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> And Jeffrey Epstein killed himself.....

</comment><comment><USER24> NPR itself is one of the major sources of disinformation on this issue.

They could solve half the problem just by shutting up.</comment>