Ask HN: How to form deep friendships later in life? - <AUTHOR> About 7 years ago I arrived in Canada from Southeast Asia to pursue a degree in Computer Science. I graduated and landed a decent job right after in the US, and have been working here since.
I have made many efforts to go out and meet new people, but unfortunately at this age it gets harder and harder to form deep and meaningful connections or friendships. Everyone already has their own childhood friends, family, support group that they have built themselves around their whole lives and grew up with. To them, I am just another 'colleague' or 'fellow member of X and Y group', and I know our friendships will never go past a certain level.
I walk past bars and cafes on Friday nights and I see groups of young adults in merry conversation and laughter. They are most probably friends since childhood / high school and I know I will never be a part of a group like that, because it is just too hard to break into a clique that already has formed a common connection amongst themselves, and the 'making friends' phase is over.
How do I overcome this sense of loneliness and dismality? <comment><USER3> \- Meet people through work. You have to kinda treat this a bit like dating, and make real effort - when you meet someone you get on with, you'll need to invite them for coffee etc. Do this sooner rather than later. Go to social events that are loosely related to your work.

\- Activity groups. Meetup.com, Couchsurfing, Nightclasses. Charities and volunteering.

\- Become a regular at a bar or a cafe. Go there frequently, even if on your own to read a paper at the weekend or one evening. Get to know the staff, as that provides a bridge to knowing other regulars.

\- When you do go out for any reason, be open to talking to people. Get into the habit of it, and if you encounter good conversations be sure to get the person's twitter/facebook/phone/email, just look for an excuse to send them something that you're both interested in. Then if you get a good chat going, look for an opportunity to meet up.

\- Explore the friendship networks of the friends you already have. When you go to events with existing friends, make sure you get to know the people they bring along. There's a much higher chance of liking a friend-of-a-friend rather than a random stranger.

\- Send social signals about the kind of person you are. e.g. wearing a SpaceX T-Shirt will definitely attract other space geeks for chat in random bars/cafes.

\- More philosophically: remember that whilst you might not meet good friends if you go to the cafe this Saturday, you certainly won't meet them if you don't socialise at all. And it takes time - for every night or day you socialise, you probably won't meet anyone interesting about 80% of the time.

<comment><USER4> To the first point, I think this might be controversial... but try to avoid people you work with directly. It seems like it's better at first glance - b/c you interact with them more - but the reality is there are whole layers of professionalism and competing interests between you and them which actually kinda preclude you from building a system of mutual trust.

Maybe "trust" isn't quite the right word, but I'm struggling to find a better one. The difference between an acquaintance and a friend is that you can implicitly know they will help you and that you will help them. This involves being willing to do thing while expecting nothing in return. In a work setting that usually leads to bitterness

But that's just like my opinion man...

<comment><USER5> It's pretty situation dependant. Mostly depends on the corporate structure, culture and your positions relative to each other. I've been blessed to work at small companies where most of the people I rub shoulders with aren't in the same professional 'track' as me, so there's no real reason for anyone to use a friendship to jockey for position or something.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Drink.

Alcohol (and possibly other recreational drugs) binds and cements friendships. After a few drinks, people are more open to talking about themselves in a more honest way and tend to reveal more of the person that they really are, rather than the person they present to the world in normal, sober life; as the old phrase 'In vino veritas' attests.

Note that I'm not advocating or encouraging alcoholism here; I'm talking about two or three sessions a week with a select few people that you want to foster a deeper relationship with. Also, friendships (as opposed to drinking buddies) are based on more than just alcohol. Friendships are ultimately about trust.

</comment><comment><USER7> I think the best way to meet new people when you feel like an outsider is to find other outsiders. By that I mean people who are also trying to fit in and meet make connections. Find things that you like doing that are welcoming to people who may not necessarily be in a group/family etc.

When it comes to making friends you also have to decide what types of friendships/relationships you want. Some people need only one or two close friends or a partner, and outside of their other hobbies, they are fulfilled. On the other hand, others prefer to have large numbers of acquaintances and be a part of a few social circles. There's overlap between the two types, but knowing what you want from your relationships will help you position yourself better to find what it is you want.

I'm 31 now, and I think there is always the possibility of meeting new people. Things happen in life, and people's situations and perspective's change. The friends that suit us at one stage of life may not suit us at another stage of life, so naturally we seek out other people. A partner that continually decides to grow and change with you is the exception to this, but we're always moving from stage to stage.

</comment><comment><USER8> Friendships form when you repeatedly interact with the same person. This is not likely to happen at a random bar, but it most definitely can happen in a cooking class, when volunteering, playing music with people in a band, routinely getting together every Thursday night with others in your local makerspace and so on. Especially if you have to actually work together: perhaps offer your help to a local cause you support, perhaps a CoderDojo?

Also, FWIW, very few adults still know their childhood and high school friends and most people gradually lose the friends they make in college. It's just what happens, and while it will be harder for you to form new friendships, we all have to work at it. I don't know anybody who'd say "alright, I now have all the friends I desire, I hereby declare a ban on new friendships."

<comment><AUTHOR> Maybe not an explicit 'I hereby declare a ban on all friendships', but in my experience, I find it hard to draw close to someone simply by virtue of the fact that we did not form our friendship early in life. No matter how much I hang out with someone, his childhood friends whom he grew up with will always take 'precedence' \- I will never be that 'close friend who people can be comfortable sharing their personal lives with'.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Come to Japan and hang out with me? :-) It's super tough making friends in new cultures and I'm working remotely so I don't meet anyone at work either.

I think the key is that deep friendships take a long time to build. Also, because your personality is already mostly formed, it is hard to meet people that you fit with. When you are very young, it's easy to change yourself to fit the group of people you are with.

My biggest advice is not to rush it. Take every opportunity to spend time with other people, but if you don't "click", don't try to force it. When I first came to Japan I spent a lot of time with people who spoke English. It was something we had in common. In the end it was the only thing we had in common. I had some pretty bad experiences because I tried to hang on to friendships that really weren't good for me or the other person.

As others have mentioned, hobbies are a good way to go. Either find groups to do your hobbies with, or find some new hobbies that will help you meet new people.

One thing I have done in the past year (since I work from home, and often at night) is to wander around my neighbourhood and chat with the retired people where I live. They are lonely too :-).

<comment><USER10> I'm in Japan too! Are you based in Tokyo?

<comment><USER9> I'm actually in Shizuoka (in Makinohara). But I come to Tokyo occasionally. Feel free to give me a shout. My profile name is the same as my gmail account ;-)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Friendships are formed most easily when people work together over a period of time on a shared mission.

Find something that you want to do & go do it with other like-minded people. Talk to them about more than just the thing you are doing together, put the effort into getting to know them. Eventually some of them will become friends.

This is why you hear all the advice to 'join a club', 'join a sports team', 'go to church', 'volunteer somewhere' etc etc. But just joining up isn't enough - you still have to put the effort in to make those personal connections.

It's a long, slow process: we don't realise how long it takes when we're young because the experiences of youth (school, college) automatically create the conditions in which friendships can grow and flourish. Once we're adults, those conditions no longer automatically happen & we have to put the effort in to making them happen ourselves.

In the meantime, actually doing something that you believe is worthwhile alongside other people is a great salve for loneliness, even if they aren't 'friends' at that point in time.

</comment><comment><USER12> Everyone struggles with this at some point, so don't worry.

\- People rightfully prefer to be around _interesting_ people. Some people are intrinsically interesting, but everyone can convey "interesting" by being genuinely _interested_ in some aspect of the other person's life. Sometimes this can lead to getting invited to a future event, like an album release party because of a shared DJing interest for example, especially if the interest is niche or rare.

\- Pick a friend from work or elsewhere that you'd like to get to know better. Take them out to lunch or coffee. Do the same next week and gradually strengthen your current network. Be sociable, and don't be afraid to have (appropriately) personal conversations or to ask friends for help or advice on something, even if you don't think you need it. They might have excellent advice or know someone who would be able to give you excellent advice.

\- Do things on your own. Decide that you're going to a concert|club|museum|movie|<your scene> on Saturday, and during the days leading up to whatever it is you've decided to do, text friends about it. Say something along the lines of, "Hey, we're going to see so and so at such and such. Let me know if you're interested!" If no one can make it, you'll still have fun if you picked the right place, and there's a fair chance at least one person might be able to join.

\- Consciously shape positive, confident thinking. Figure out what you like about yourself that you can be confident about! Nothing good can come from beliefs like "I know our friendships will never go past a certain level" and "the 'making friends' phase is over".

</comment><comment><USER13> If you work, for example, 60 hours a week somewhere, at worst sitting in front of a computer, and on a rare times of freedom you ask hourself that question, it's probably not going to work.

You probably have to change the priorities in your life: work as the support not as the primary meaning of life. That also means actively investing time (a lot) in non-work activities. That's what's hard to do, since we acquire the habbits through the decades. Even worse, whichever company you work for will probably not like that the time of your physical presence decreases.

It's possible. But you'll have to actively pursue it and change.

</comment><comment><USER14> I know that you probably want to maintain your privacy, but you just missed a good opportunity here to make friends via HN. You should say what state/city you're in, and you might be surprised at how welcoming people can be.

I was in a slightly similar situation in the late 90's when we moved from Florida to western NY. My wife was from this area, but I didn't know anyone. I made a few neighbor/friends, but it was tough because my wife hadn't been back home for many years and we had our own small business (no work acquaintances). I ended up learning to play ice hockey and joined a local group of guys that play pick-up every Sunday morning (we go for coffee afterwards and discuss whatever for a couple of hours). Long story short: I've known them for over a decade and they're now all like brothers to me.

It's tough to join groups when you don't know anyone. But, don't sell yourself short. Many people find it interesting that I've lived over a decade in 3 different US states, so you're practically Christopher Columbus in comparison. Oftentimes the things that we find the most boring about ourselves are exactly that which makes us the most interesting to others.

Good luck !

</comment><comment><USER15> I read this a while ago which sums up the problem: [http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/fashion/the-challenge- of-m...](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/fashion/the-challenge-of-making- friends-as-an-adult.html)

The most important thing I noted:

>As external conditions change, it becomes tougher to meet the three conditions that sociologists since the 1950s have considered crucial to making close friends: _proximity; repeated, unplanned interactions; and a setting that encourages people to let their guard down and confide in each other_

</comment><comment><USER16> After two years of collecting acquaintances in Vancouver, I decided to start volunteering at the same place every week. I now have people who call me if I don't show up at a party!

Prolonged exposure really is the key to friendship, and for remote workers finding excuses to meet the same people repeatedly is a must.

</comment><comment><USER17> I suspect it's very difficult. Later in life most people have coupled up and had a family, and that's where all their emotional investment goes. Before coupling and family, in late teens and twenty something adulthood, singletons have the bandwidth for the kind of deep friendship you describe. I know I did. So I think your ultimate solution to the problem of loneliness is the same as that of most other adults - a romantic life partner. In the mean time, I'm going to make a deeply unfashionable suggestion: what about joining a 'church' group? Since you're from SE Asia Christianity may not be the right tradition for you. Perhaps a Buddhist or Muslim congregation may be more appropriate. A faith community may well be the way to find the automatic acceptance you need.

<comment><USER18> I don't know much about Buddhism, but your suggestion about joining a Christian or Muslim church is likely to backfire. If you're joining out of purely a desire for social connection, you may find some difficulty if you discover the philosophical requirements are too much for you to bear.

In other words, you might make friends, then realize you're not on board with the theology, then end up with a very rough break up. This happened to me in college at least. Led to the worst time of my life.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> The most important insights I have to offer is this: Ask for help. Offer it as well, but you _must_ ask for it. Do you want to be friends with invincible people who never need your assistance? Probably not if you are anything like me. Giving to other people makes us like them more, and this goes both ways. This is the Benjamin Franklin effect[1]

You have called out a desire to have more meaningful relationships, so I am not going to focus on meeting people, though the more people you meet the more you will find people with things in common.

Instead think about what makes deep connections? Shared experiences. Fellow feeling. Giving and accepting affection.

I am Australian and I am lucky enough to have moved to New York for work. I met some friends through Australian connections but the deepest connections I have made are through a random conversation at a networking event that led to some drinks, and then to an introduction to a group of like minded poets, artists and technologists.

But even then I felt on the outside.

The thing that changed that has been going to them for help with things in my life (support as I struggled with relationship trouble, homesickness, stress from work) as well as spending time in their company individually and as a group in both casual and more intense settings (camping). Part of the help I asked for I guess was their acceptance and approval of some poetry I was writing, which I performed for them. I guess that my thesis is shallow experiences make for shallow friendships and deep experiences (which by their nature require you to have your guard down) make deep friendships.

"Breaking into a clique" is a bad paradigm I think, you don't want to break in, you want to be brought in.

The only other thing I would say is seek people who are also seeking. They will be the ones who have arrived from elsewhere, the ones who are perhaps on the edges of the society that you are in. They want what you want.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Franklin_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Franklin_effect)

</comment><comment><USER20> The science, interestingly, says join a choir. [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3292784/Why- singing-...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3292784/Why-singing-fast- way-friendship-Chemicals-released-brain-helps-people-bond-quickly-group- activities.html)

</comment><comment><USER21> I wouldn't have any friends if it wasn't for football (Soccer). I am painfully shy, but through this shared team activity I've gained many people I know. So the first advice is hobbies.

The second piece of advice is if you are anything like me, it's not necessarily a group of friends you are looking for - it's one or two deep friendships. Concentrate on a couple of key relationships and maybe more will come through that!

<comment><USER22> Exactly what I was going to say! I scuba dive, and whenever I've moved to a new city the first thing I do is meet up with the local scuba diving club(s). A sports/activity/social club is a great way to meet like-minded people, but who are from diverse backgrounds and are of various ages.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> Hackerspaces, (Team) Sports clubs, Join a band/music societies. I think it is easiest when you find a place where people gather that share your passions. How pleasant are people that become enthusiastic when you tell them about yourself? Building Friendships is really building, you won't pick them up somewhere so you need repeated interaction.

I have childhood friends, they feel little enthusiasm when I tell them about the 434 MHz transmitter I use on a Raspberry Pi to switch my lights. The never even booted Linux. I feel very alive when among people with my interests: Open source software, hardware tinkering. My employer (a worker assignment company (is that English?)) facilitates this, I highly enjoy it. I think I could build some friendships there, but I don't need it at the moment (young kid at home). That said, I sometimes feel I should drop some old friends in favor of new ones... Maybe later ;)

</comment><comment><USER24> People in the US have to move fairly often for graduate school, jobs, etc. While some subset of the groups you're seeing are childhood friends, a large number of the people you're seeing have probably not been friends for all that long in the lifetime scheme of things!

Creating new friendships is difficult and quite similar to dating. It sounds like you're already part of a few groups, that's great! A good next step would be to approach interesting people w/in that group on an individual level and see if you have friend chemistry. This blog has a lot of great advice for the type of person most likely to end up on HN. [http://captainawkward.com/2011/12/19/question-153-how-do- i-m...](http://captainawkward.com/2011/12/19/question-153-how-do-i-make-and- keep-friends/)

Best of luck

</comment><comment><USER25> I don't know about deep friendships, as I really don't have the time to maintain all my friendships anymore, but I've become friends with quite a few people by just picking a few groups on Meetup.com and keep showing up to meetups, do a little chit chat here and there, not a lot, but a little.

Eventually people started recognizing me as a regular and I got to know people well enough that they started being friendly to me and asking me to do things outside of meetups.

It also helped that I'm generally a friendly person, albeit somewhat quiet.

So I just made a consistent effort to keep going to these meetups for a period of two years, and I now know more people than I can keep track of, and made several pretty close friends out of it.

</comment><comment><USER26> Most of the comments here are about how to make friendships, not how to make "deep friendships".

I have found the best way to work on a mission together. Go out to town looking for a nice girl(or guy) to date. Work on some project together. Go on a traveling adventure.

<comment><AUTHOR> Where exactly do you find people to do such stuff? Everyone is busy with their own work and lives

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> 1\. go out there, activities, meetup.com, volunteering... 2\. when you meet people, try to see them again: ask them out, organize something... 3\. be a nice/fun guy to be around

The weird thing is that most advice you will find in seduction apply in looking for friends

</comment><comment><USER28> Hobbies man. What you lack in childhood friends you can earn through activities pals. At least half of my friends I met them at some activity or hobby. People use to bond when they share a common interest. Take some artisan classes, cooking sessions, art tours, or simply enlist yourself in an amateur sports club. There are also a gazillion of adventure clubs, from hiking to mountaineering to the very extremes, targeted to all ages and physical condition. And even if you're strictly a geek and you find none of the above attractive you could try joining a pen and paper old fashioned D&D club.

<comment><USER29> And if a geek, there are also maker groups and tech meetups, in fact meetups of any kind

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> My advice might sound unusual, but ... consider moving to another (smaller) city. I moved to Canada a few years ago and lived in Montreal and Toronto since then. Toronto is ridiculously hard for socializing. Ridiculously. People (especially below 40) are distant, reserved, sometimes passively aggressive (esp. girls) and even rude. At the same time my experience with Montreal was totally opposite and I made a few good connections in Montreal. I haven't lived in Ottawa but my impression from travels across Canada is that people are much nicer everywhere outside of Toronto.

</comment><comment><USER31> I'm in the same situation, I came to France recently after I graduated from Algeria to work in some IT company, and I find it really hard to make friends. specially in France where people doesn't really welcome foreigners, due to many reasons, the events of Paris will make it even harder, but sometime I wonder if its me who is not sociable or the people around me who are less interested in making new connections.

</comment><comment><USER32> There's lots of good advice here on meeting people. But in my experience the hard part has been moving from acquaintance or casual friend to good friend. It was always easy to meet people through hobbies, but those relationships tended to end up focused exclusively on the shared activity -- I'm not very outgoing so I wouldn't really talk about anything else with those people, or spend time with them outside that activity.

But a couple years ago I joined a very close-knit martial arts group and have finally made some good friends that way. I think the big difference is that this group does public demos and attends competitions together. That often means spending most of a weekend together, including some less-structured time that encourages more casual conversation. Competitions can also be very intense experiences, and supporting each other through that helps to form stronger bonds.

As it turns out, the last time I made a lot of close friends it was through my college fencing club, which had a lot of the same characteristics.

I guess that doesn't help much unless you're interested in martial arts or other competitive activities. But it worked for me.

</comment><comment><USER33> Is there anything you are really passionate about? Politics, religion, a TV show, genre of literature, charity, etc.?

I've found that it's easier to form faster relationships by being in a select "in-group" of people who are united around a cause. The downside to that is that if you change your views or become less passionate, the people may tend to isolate from you. Same thing for when you have friends from work. However, you can try to turn these more superficial friendships into more meaningful ones by talking about people's kids, dating life, childhood, etc. Once you talk about things that are more intimate, people will view you as a more intimate friend than you actually are. And remember you have to "give to get" \- so talk about yourself and share details that push the boundary of your intimacy level (not in a creepy way). That will also make people feel that you have a closer relationship than you do and they will view you as a closer friend.

And read "How to Win Friends and Influence People" for tips on talking to people more when you are with them.

</comment><comment><USER34> I was an army brat, moving to a new place every couple years (at least). Later in life, I started moving in parallel of my family for my studies. I moved to China right after I graduated and have been traveling more than I'd like ever since: I actually spent the past 3 or so years living full time on Airbnb or short term leases between Shanghai, SF, Berlin, DC and NYC.

And I still meet people.

I do have people regularly becoming good friends. Not that many, but then I've always preferred small circles.

You could very well engineer your way through it honestly, but you must realize that, like sales or marketing, this mostly involves dealing with people. And people are tricky.

Code will give you an instantaneous (or close enough) feedback; it compiles and crashes, or fails test/QA. You get that in seconds, hours, maybe days or weeks.

With sales, you throw yourself out there and start seeing results down the line, weeks if you're very lucky, but most likely months after you kicked things off. And before it yields any results, you have to be consistent in your effort to reach out and maintain the relationship with your prospective clients.

You want friends. You really really want to? Well then time to start organizing dinners with the ones you know already, or throwing a casual party at your place next weekend. Propose a drink after work once in a while or plan activities that others can tag along with. Encourage them to invite their friends as well, and slowly, but surely, you'll get invited back and introduced to new folks.

Overall, be upbeat and open minded.

But again, and that's the real tricky part, you can't just "try real hard for 2 weeks" and then give up. You'll have to be consistent and resolute for a while before you get anywhere. Like all good things in life, it takes time.

</comment><comment><USER35> As an expat, it's harder than in a country where you master unspoken social rules. I know this from experience.

I believe your best bet is to meet other people lost in translation, and especially expats. Ideally not all from your native country: often, such circles (people from country X trying to make themselves an enjoyable life in country Y) tend to encourage their members to bitch on country Y, and that's not the path to happiness.

Internet should help you find people. If you have hobbies, it helps having a common ground to build upon.

About kids, lovers and family: it's quite difficult to share a social life between single people, engaged people and people with kids. If the bond preexists a divergence of lifestyles, it can survive, but each of these lifestyles come with hard-to-reconcile constraints.

Finally, if you can pass the IQ test, Mensa is a nice community of too-smart- for-their-own-good people, looking for meaningful and intellectually engaging bonds.

</comment><comment><USER36> Go to Burning Man, or a regional event. It's the canonical way. You can make some serious friendships there.

</comment><comment><USER37> Upvoting this, because I wish I knew.

</comment><comment><USER38> I think it is important to understand that friendships usually get built up slowly. However you don't need patience you need to enjoy the process, so there is nothing to endure.

My advice is to try to enjoy your shallow relationships with colleagues and acquaintances. Don't underestimate the rituals of greeting people and participating in small talk.

Relax, listen and share a little-bit of your life ("Traffic is crap, I really wish there was a subway here").

Don't try too hard to turn them into big friendships, end the conversation when it becomes awkward with a "nice talking to you". Try to show up to events or invite people.

Everything else will come in time, especially if you enjoy yourself.

</comment><comment><USER39> > Everyone already has their own childhood friends, family, support group that > they have built themselves around their whole lives and grew up with. To > them, I am just another 'colleague' or 'fellow member of X and Y group', and > I know our friendships will never go past a certain level.

I think you are misinterpreting the local culture.

If they are in their 20's then their friendship networks are still quite young and are being created, perhaps you are not understanding your value and potential to the group.

Deep friendships though are just about time and random events. That's why it's good to have diverse acquaintances -> friendships -> deep friendships.

</comment><comment><USER40> I am also in the same boat.

One thing that worked for me (unintentionally) is volunteering - I met some great people, even formed a handful of friendships.

Another interesting habit (again unintentionally) that worked for me is talking to old people. I enjoy talking to them as they have lots of stories to tell and wisdom to share. Some of the best conversations I've had are with older folks (60's and above).

It is hard though, once we are in our 30's

Are there any apps that we can use to meet people other than meetup.com and that don't rely on Facebook?

</comment><comment><USER41> New people find each other every day. They usually form around a certain common ground or interest, be it religious, Buddhist (1) or even Freemasons if religion is not your thing (2). Good luck.

(1) [http://www.buddhisttemple.ca](http://www.buddhisttemple.ca) (2) [http://www.grandlodge.on.ca](http://www.grandlodge.on.ca)

(Edit: deleted 'this will probably get down-voted part of comment)

<comment><USER42> Just so you know you, are being downvoted because you said "this will be downvoted," which is frowned upon. This community is actually quite sympathetic to buddhist ideas.

<comment><USER41> Why thank you, I wasn't aware of that. I'll adjust my comment.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> A lot of questions like this (how to get dates, rise up the ladder, find friends, etc.) have the same answer (well essentially). All you got to do is -

1\. Get out there 2\. Be yourself

I wrote a whole essay a minute ago, but really it could be a whole course. Like the theme of YCombinator with startups, do things that don't scale.

Find a purpose that you can bring to the table. Can you code well, play a sport, sing, draw? If you have a skill or a hobby then pursue that. I find friends for every activity I do. Its not that I'm trying, but people are everywhere doing everything.

Those people you find in bars aren't always friends since forever either. Life experience tends to make people more emphatic towards each other, right? We all have gone through schools, jobs, and relationships. Had ups and downs. Sometimes its just nice to sit down with anyone who's listening to talk/rant/laugh about those moments.

I'm 31 and work 1hr and a half from home. My house is in a town 2 hours from where I grew up. I knew no one when I arrived but now know plenty of people. And not just in my town, but all over. Some of my favorite people I have met the past couple of years. I tend to see them only once or twice a year. When we do meet up, we can spend all night talking as if we grew up with each other.

If you're open to be a little transparent and also are interested in hearing other people's stories you'll do fine. You'll find it get much easier the more you allow yourself to chill out.

Try this - If you're really having problems meeting folks try the following. 1\. Find any gathering where people would be active in your favorite hobby 2\. Give yourself only 10 minutes (you can stay the entire night, but 10 minutes from when you arrive to when you leave is enough) 3\. Listen in on a conversation (or join the activity for a session) and add a couple of knowledge here and there 4\. Leave

What have you learned? You learned how to find people! You may also have found a couple of people who you ended up hanging out with for the duration of the 10 minutes. You might have even stayed the entire night having fun. You may even have had a few FB invites coming your way.

Remember, most people are usually game for new experiences. You are that new experience. Get out there and have some fun!

</comment><comment><USER44> > How do I overcome this sense of loneliness and dismality?

You are actually asking several different questions. But I suspect if you can overcome this one, you'll find that you won't really yearn for deep friendships as much.

There are several things you should probably ask yourself:

\- Are upset that you are alone, or are that you are lonely? Remember, there's two are not necessarily the same.

\- What is making you feel dismal about life, exactly?

\- What is your definition of a "deep" friendship?

<comment><AUTHOR> Maybe I will expand a little bit more on my original post.

A colleague of mind left a little earlier before work ended because he had an appointment with some of his highschool friends. From what he told us they don't live in the same area any more but make it a point to meet up once a month.

After work I made a detour to get some stuff, and I happened to walk past the cafe where said colleague was hanging out with his friends. I was walking opposite the street but could see them through the glass windows laughing and having a good time, and in that moment I felt a visceral pang of emptiness / loneliness.

I am unable to forge a deep level of friendship with people that I meet in Meetup groups - simply because they already have their own cliques and social circle. Even if they do form a new one, it will never be as close-knit as the ones they have formed throughout highschool simply by virtue of the fact that one has been ongoing for a longer time.

If you can visualize it like a spider web, where you are in the centre and the 'webs' that branch out are your friends - the more friends you make and the stronger connections you form (usually happens throughout high school and college) - the larger your spider web grows exponentially. The closer a person is to you, the nearer he is to the 'centre' of the web. Think of it this way - the larger the spider web people have, the harder it is for someone to get as close to the centre of the net as possible. At this stage of life - <USER2> everyone already has established their 'spider web'.

I know this because I actually do have such a clique since highschool. We still maintain contact over Whatsapp but since I am the only one that is overseas, I am unable to meet up with them frequently. And within that circle I do have a couple of close friends who I message on a weekly basis, and who I would call lifelong buddies. No way will the new friends I make over volunteering/hobbies/meetup groups ever become closer to me than these lifelong buddies I have - so how how can I expect the same for them?

<comment><USER45> I'm sorry to hear this is such a painful experience for you. Perhaps some of us are just so accustomed to moving around that the depth of friendship you seek is a foreign concept. Some of this is just an aspect of modern society -- we lack strong ties to our place of birth and we don't all share similar values.

The only concrete advice I can provide is to try finding a romantic partner. You would be less lonely, any sexual frustration you're experiencing would be relieved, and you may develop friendships through your significant other. In many cases, finding such a partner would be easier than happening upon a person who is looking for the kind of friendship you seek. Dating is common, setting out to develop friendships not so much.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> Hi. You seem nice. I'm nomadic but don't have a problem making friends that feel like siblings. I think this has to do with the fact that I try to be completely open about who I am and my many short comings from the start. For whatever reason you are more likely to get the same response. Maybe you are a very open person and this is an unhelpful suggestion. But I'll make it anyway, because you seem nice:)

</comment><comment><USER47> So I just read down to the bottom waiting to see the answer - common interests - but didn't.

It's that easy. Find something you love doing, and you'll inevitably find and meet like-minded people. You'll naturally gravitate to one or more in that community and the seeds for friendship awesomeness are yours to nourish and grow.

Personal experience has yielded 20+ year friendships by skydiving, scuba diving, radio control, and martial arts.

<comment><USER48> Joining a Dojo (any kind of group practicing some kind of Martial Art, not necessarily a Japanese one) is a good idea - in my experience the sense of camaraderie is a good way to make friends outside of training hours. Also, there are many different martial arts, more or less ritualized, more or less strenuous, so there is a good chance you may find something that appeals to your own preferences.

<comment><USER49> Speaking of Dojo. Why not mentor at your local Coder Dojo? (Or start one) I've found it a great way to meet people and have made some good friends with other mentors and the parents of the ninjas (kids).

[https://coderdojo.com/](https://coderdojo.com/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> Get a hobby. Join a club. Mine hobby is riding a motorcycle. I've seriously met people and made friends through reddit by PMing them saying "Hey, we live pretty close, wanna ride?".

Making friends and building relationships, like everything else, requires work. You won't get it for free, except at school/work where you're basically forced to be around the same people all the time.

</comment><comment><USER51> Read the book by Dale Carnegie ([http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends- Influence-People/dp/06...](http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence- People/dp/0671027034)). Joining events on [http://www.meetup.com/](http://www.meetup.com/) can be helpful too.

<comment><USER51> To the OP, if you do not have time to read or if you are not sure whether it is worth reading, you can read the summary at [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influen...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People)

First impression is very important when you are meeting anyone. One of the most important takeaways from the book is "be genuinely interested in other people".

<comment><USER52> I've written another summary, focused only on a few points, but a bit more flesh, not just bullet points: [http://www.2uo.de/how-to-win- friends/](http://www.2uo.de/how-to-win-friends/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> Great idea for a website or app!

Here in france, we have a website called On Va Sortir (We Are Going Out: [http://paris.onvasortir.com](http://paris.onvasortir.com)) that allows people (mostly newcomers from the rest of the country) to schedule meetups.

It's a bit like meetup.com, just more local and tuned to french people.

Maybe Canada needs its own Meetup?

</comment><comment><USER54> A lot of cities have meetup groups (www.meetup.com) for whatever interests you might have. I am in Barcelona, and there are a number of expat groups, practice spanish groups, as well as tech meetup groups (as well as a ton more - the ones I mentioned are maybe more relevant to a newcomer in the city).

</comment><comment><USER55> "deep and meaningful connections or friendships"

You mean a wife or husband? Or a dog? Maybe find a church you like?

</comment><comment><USER56> Social groups are good way of meeting new friends, tech meetups, karate, tennis..

</comment><comment><USER57> I always tell people who move to a new city to join a meetup, class, or some type of group that will force you to repetitively be around the same group of people. If you have basic social skills you will make friends.

</comment><comment><USER58> Pursue your interests, skydiving, wargaming, poetry, dance, futbol, religion, politics, whatever. This is somewhat likely to lead to meeting people with a shared interest. That's the basis for community.

Good luck.

</comment><comment><USER59> Were you successful making such friendships earlier in life?

<comment><USER60> This raises a good point. If he wasn't good at making such relationships earlier in life, he may be a bit challenged. I think part of his problem is also that he's looking for deep friendships. They don't come easily.

You don't have to be someone's soul mate in order to enjoy time with them. Those things will come naturally (Or not - but at least you did go out and socialize.)

<comment><USER59> To me deep friendships are the distilled product of having many shallow ones. One does not go out to make deep friendships, one goes out to make friends or acquaintances and some of those contacts will deepen over time.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER61> Join a local facebook group. I joined a local music/partying facebook group and have met tons of new people after that through regular meetups.

</comment><comment><USER62> Join extreme-ish outdoor activity group.

Nothing bonds people faster and stronger than helping each other to survive in a wilderness.

</comment><comment><USER63> get a hobby - preferably one that requires you to be outdoors (sports, hiking, photography etc). you can't believe how many people you meet, some of them are bound to be good friend material.

</comment><comment><USER64> There are ways to make deeper relationships faster. The key is to become an irreplaceable existence in each others' lives. People fall in love and become closer than any childhood friends (in several aspects at least) even if they meet late in life, right? You basically need to create that kind of relationship with whoever you choose to cultivate a deep friendship with.

You can certainly overcome the time condition with practice on getting closer faster. I spent 2 years as a nomad traveling through and living in ~8 vastly different cultures where I didn't even speak the language and had no local friends before I got there. Before that, I was born in India, grew up in the Middle East, studied on the East Coast, and worked in California. During all these transitions I went through lots of periods of incredible loneliness and missing out on the long-standing relationships others had, which is I guess how I learned most of this. Some general tips based on that experience.

\- Cut the chitchat. Skip the "where do you work? where did you grow up? what's your favorite color?" bullshit when you meet someone. It isn't enriching, and it's more often than not forgettable for both people. You will learn these things about each other over time if you become closer, so save it for later. Don't initiate these questions, and find ways to segway out of this into the other stuff (see below) if the other person initiates it.

\- Forge a mentor/padawan relationship. If you know more about something they're interested in, or vice versa, go for this, and do it in a respectful manner whichever side you're on, but also be willing to treat them as a peer. This instantly makes you irreplaceable as a friend they can and want to learn from (or teach to), when it's something they're embarrassed to do with their other friends.

\- Be a good conversationalist. Listen to what they're saying, ask interesting questions, always prioritizing making them feel comfortable telling you more stuff and think more, rather than just making smalltalk. Try to relate to what they're saying but with as little talking about yourself. Direct the conversation towards interesting aspects of the topic rather than mundane superficial details. E.g.

Them: Ugh rough day at work

You: Good challenges or stuff you wish you didn't have to deal with? (rather than "tell me about it")

Them: I guess good challenges, but I wouldn't want to face this too often. We were having a crisis deciding which one the core feature of our new product is, and I and the director of product had somewhat conflicting opinions. (rather than what he would have said "oh, argument with my boss")

This provokes thought, and they associate talking to you with having more meaningful conversations, rather than just regurgitating the same words they'd used with their mom or the bartender who said they looked down.

\- Practice under semi-artificial constraints. As someone else suggested, couchsurfing (or living in dorm-style AirBnBs). You will meet other solo travelers or hosts who would like to get to know you. Practice these with them. The time-limit on when you'll depart will encourage everyone to have more fun with you before you go.

\- Break down your walls. Be open. Talk about deep topics and expose your flaws and vulnerabilities and things you care about. Talk about things like this, your loneliness and jealousy over other people having deeper friendships. You make yourself vulnerable, but it'll appeal to human empathy, and people will want to help [NOTE: Don't get needy or whiny. Just explore your internal workings together with people]. This draws them in faster and they will want to understand you at a deeper level. They don't see you as that guy who's sitting across the table from them, but as a fellow human being who is in need of their company. People love feeling needed.

\- Live together, travel together. Don't live alone. When traveling, don't get a hotel room, go dorm-style. When renting, get a house with a shared kitchen and living room. Carpool. Do a sport with your housemates, work on home decor together (furniture shopping, etc). Go hang out in their room.

\- Play games. Sports are not always easy to coordinate, but football/basketball/tennis with colleagues or other friends is a great way to get closer. If those aren't feasible, play video games together. Have a video game party evening now and then for console people, or just play online while voice chatting in a Hangout/Skype call. Make non-game-related conversation when between games. Or if you want to be away from the computer, play board games. With your housemates, a nearby board game meetup, coworkers, etc. Gaming brings out a lot of personality aspects of people, and they don't waste energy on chitchat.

\- The above can be summarized as don't just talk to people, but have _experiences_ together. Suffer something together (sport/school/gym), build something together (work/cooking/housekeeping), enjoy something together (concert/games).

The part I didn't talk about much is how to meet people. I'll leave that to you. I hope this gives you an idea on what aspects of your human interaction to improve upon so that you can make the most of the pool of people you _do_ get to meet, and get deeper and closer friendships overcoming the aspect of duration.

</comment><comment><USER65> Volunteer.

</comment><comment><USER66> how about trying some tech meetups?

</comment><comment><USER67> Find a counsellor.</comment>


Visual Studio 2017 What's New Poster - <AUTHOR> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/visualstudio/2017/03/13/visual-studio-2017-poster/ <comment><USER4> The "web infographic" version is much more readable... in a web broswer: [https://vs2017poster.azurewebsites.net/](https://vs2017poster.azurewebsites.net/)

<comment><USER5> Yeah, when they say "poster", they're not kidding. I imagine the one-pager is gonna be impossibly hard to read unless you have a printer that can handle 24"x36" or larger.

<comment><USER6> Back when they had the first SQL Server version after the Sybase deal, I think it was version 6.5, we got a full wall poster containing a description of all metadata tables sent to us, along the usual pile of MSDN CDs.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Glad to see their graphic design internship program is alive and well...

<comment><USER8> serving pdfs to the web like no other

link to the gigantic image (displayed quite tiny on the site and after a slow load just linking to the pdf): [https://msdnshared.blob.core.windows.net/media/2017/03/Visua...](https://msdnshared.blob.core.windows.net/media/2017/03/VisualStudio2017_ProductLaunchPoster-1.png)

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I use Visual Studio every day these days.

Honestly, I wish it would do less, but a lot better. Rather than adding new features, I would love to see the following addressed:

\- 64-bit by default. I am developing for Windows 10, make the entire C# toolchain emit 64-bit binaries. Make devenv.exe 64-bit, make the default build/compile 64-bit

\- Make the XAML editor work without bombing out in not-that-unreasonable scenarios.

\- Make it faster. Everywhere. Make project startup faster, make static analysis faster, make the compiler faster.

I don't use probably 90% of what it does. You're never going to convince me VS is a better tool for deployments, managing databases, or the approximately 50 other things it tries to do, better than purpose-built, scriptable tools. Just make a fast, purpose-built code editor with good static analysis capabilities, and get out of my way. FWIW, I'm really liking Visual Studio Code these days, it's more in line with what I want.

<comment><USER10> On the "faster" claim, you may miss it with all the visual noise but on the blog posts they boast noticeable speedups, although I didn't see any quantification.

<comment><USER11> Item #9 from an earlier release announcement says "starting up, loading projects and building": [https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/uktechnet/2016/11/29/vis...](https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/uktechnet/2016/11/29/visual- studio-2017-rc-new-and-improved-features/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Visual Studio release system requirements with every version (I believe):

[https://www.visualstudio.com/en- us/productinfo/vs2017-system...](https://www.visualstudio.com/en- us/productinfo/vs2017-system-requirements-vs)

But it would be good to know what their actual developers use - as I see people complaining about Visual Studio lag all the time. Perhaps if they simply stated: SSD recommended, or our developers use XYZ in their builds - <USER2> would help individuals and organisations know what hardware is key to perfect performance.

I can't imagine devs at MS put up with lag when developing their software - <USER3> assume it's well known what hardware matches well with VS.

<comment><USER6> The interesting part is that this lame 2012 laptop, dual core with 8 GB and HDD, can execute VS 2015 without any major issue, but I get the fan full speed when using Android Studio instead.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> They've also gotten rid of the ISO installer which is making enterprise deployment a real pain.

<comment><USER14> How does such a deployment scenario work? Are there devs out there who would agree to _not_ set up their IDE themselves? The VS installer has one million optional components, and every dev needs a different set...

<comment><USER6> Yes, typical enterprise IT.

You get a development workstation configured by IT with the standard tooling allowed inside the company.

Regarding Visual Studio, it usually means a full install of professional version, or with luck the enterprise version for those with architect role.

Getting any software for development not configured out of the box by IT, usually means opening a ticket requesting the installation, alongside the reason why it is required and occasionally the corresponding cost center as well.

<comment><USER14> > Yes, typical enterprise IT.

I thought that didn't apply to devs - even in a 10k people org. Doesn't this just create a massive overhead?

Aren't people going to require modifying this setup regularly? (oh now I need the .NET 4.6.2. targeting pack, tomorrow it's the MsBuild 12.0 tools and next week it'll be the SDK for Win10 developers update (They release one SDK update per Win update!).

> Getting any software for development not configured out of the box by IT, > usually means opening a ticket requesting the installation, alongside the > reason why it is required and occasionally the corresponding cost center as > well.

It feels like a massive administrative overhead if you have to raise IT support tickets in order to modify a VS installation. This all feels like a maintenance nightmare. I can't imagine the alternative being worse (1000 devs maintaining 1000 different types of computers themselves).

I thought I was in a large "enterprise-y" situation - but apparently I'm not. I'm at least trusted to face the VS installer on my own.

<comment><USER6> > Aren't people going to require modifying this setup regularly? (oh now I > need the .NET 4.6.2. targeting pack, tomorrow it's the MsBuild 12.0 tools > and next week it'll be the SDK for Win10 developers update (They release one > SDK update per Win update!).

No, because you are only allowed to do that if project requirements do actually need those updates.

You never do that alone, it is done for all devs working on that specific project.

> I thought I was in a large "enterprise-y" situation - but apparently I'm > not. I'm at least trusted to face the VS installer on my own.

Well, I work on consulting for large enterprises Fortune 500, DAX 30, and similar corporations.

The level of freedom we get on the computers assigned to us, depends pretty much on the customer, their security processes, vendor management processes, and how their internal IT is set up.

Not all customers have such tight control.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Sweet Jesus that thing is borderline impossible to read.

<comment><AUTHOR> Try the web infographic version here: [https://aka.ms/vs2017infographic](https://aka.ms/vs2017infographic)

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Let me guess, C++ performance (especially when it comes to loading really large projects) decreased again. And it's probably even more sluggish than before. That's been a trend since Visual Studio 6.

<comment><USER17> [https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/visualstudio/2016/10/11/sho...](https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/visualstudio/2016/10/11/shorter- solution-load-time-in-visual-studio-15/)

Also: [https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/visualstudio/2016/10/13/fas...](https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/visualstudio/2016/10/13/faster- c-solution-load-and-build-performance-with-visual-studio-15/)

<comment><USER16> Thanks for the links, I'll give it a try. Not holding my breath though.

<comment><USER18> I'm recommending we don't move to VS2017 at work. It's much slower to open and it's laggy. 2015 compiles about 5 seconds slower but there's no lag in the IDE for me. Hopefully the issues get resolved in update 1.

It doesn't mess with project files tho which is great.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Aww, I was wondering why they chose an unambitious C# pattern matching example and the really cool stuff didn't make this release. Looks like a solid set of improvements in the IDE and C# though, nice!

<comment><USER20> The use of pattern matching on types in an object oriented languages scares me. It's like a too easily wielded extremely powerful dependency magnet.

<comment><USER10> > It's like a too easily wielded extremely powerful dependency magnet.

The equivalent if statement is not?

<comment><USER20> Most people can be brought to realise that they are going somewhere dark when they're using typeof in an if statement. This is a whole language construct built and communicated around this (dark) idea.

I understand that general pattern matching is A Really Nice Thing and that Mads misses it from SML (or something like it), I just can't see the value for all the dangers from an OO perspective.

<comment><USER10> > Most people can be brought to realise that they are going somewhere dark > when they're using typeof in an if statement. This is a whole language > construct built and communicated around this (dark) idea.

I'm really confused by your statement on multiple levels.

For one, Scala has been doing this for some time and it's one of the less controversial and mostly well-loved things it does. For two, Clojure's been doing it on the JVM and that's hardly Clojure's problem. F#'s been doing it in the .NET interface layer as well.

Maybe get specific with your problem rather than saying that there are invisible dragons that only your legendary intelligence can perceive.

Because pattern matching and deconstructive binding saves a lot of code and often has a powerful "say what I mean" factor for developers. Comparing it to a typeof conditional chain (which is considerably more awkward to maintain because of the general awkwardness of conditional cascades) seems to me like a very weak argument.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Also be sure to check out all the on-demand videos we have up now (including two training courses we did at RTM launch event), its all up on our developer network for free: [https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Visual-Studio/Visual- Studio...](https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Visual-Studio/Visual- Studio-2017-Launch)

</comment><comment><USER22> Seems to have some troubles opening large old solutions. I tried it and it just hangs and never responds with an error or anything. This is on an old aspnet solution with around 40 projects. Googling seems similar issues, but I haven't found a fix yet. I guess that's why you wait for revisions.

</comment><comment><USER23> I made the switch from vim to visual studio code for php coding. Is it worth switching to vs2017 ?

<comment><AUTHOR> There's an extension to Visual Studio that adds rich PHP support, here: [https://www.devsense.com/](https://www.devsense.com/). It's pretty good.

You might watch this video to get a sense of what the full Visual Studio IDE offers for a PHP developer: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up4bEMPktzU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up4bEMPktzU)

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> This is almost as bad as the Blender one I saw on reddit a few days ago.

<comment><USER25> I bet this is the one you refer to:

[http://giudansky.com/images/articoli/2016/11/blender- infogra...](http://giudansky.com/images/articoli/2016/11/blender- infographic-1280-SM.png)

At a glance it looks quite bad, but if you actually learn Blender it's probably useful.</comment></comment>


How to be creative - <AUTHOR> http://www.gapingvoid.com/Moveable_Type/archives/001760.html <comment><USER2> That's strange, I was just revising a few of those points myself. I'm a huge fan of that post or whatever you want to call it.

"The sovereignty you have over your work will inspire far more people than the actual content ever will. How your own sovereignty inspires other people to find their own sovereignty, their own sense of freedom and possibility, will change the world far more than the the work's objective merits ever will."

Priceless.

</comment><comment><USER3> Besides web 2.0, we can see some creativity in the games industry as well. For a more recent example of creativity in games, see:

<http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=1299927595688205543>

Maybe one might even find ideas from computer games that can be adapted to a web 2.0 context.

</comment><comment><USER4> heh, i remember seeing those business card cartoons on the internet like a LONG time ago, maybe 4-5 years at least.</comment>


Picking Rust for Web - awinter-py https://abe-winter.github.io/wisdom/2019/08/26/rust-for-web.html <comment><AUTHOR> This reads a bit like having (maybe unconsciously) picked Rust first and then coming up with arguments to rationalize that choice. Which is completely fine, especially for a small personal project. It's just weird that the article spends so much time discussing the pros and cons of various languages and then says "oh BTW, no GC'd language is acceptable".

</comment><comment><USER2> I think backend web development except for protocol and server is inherently a text processing work:

1\. Parse http request map them to language data structures.

2\. Do some processing.

3\. Convert data structures to json or HTML or blob as response.

Given this paradigm language stronger in text processing like lisp, perl, python, Ruby are easier and more productive. Rust and Go in my view are still not strong in this area, therefore might not be as strong in backend web programming.

But people have built very powerful web application in C++, Go, C and some even in Rust. So it is possible and I will be very happy that development of web application in Rust might develop powerful libraries for text precessing, which will make it more productive with memory safety.

So go ahead, if possible share your development experience.

I am still busy learning lisp, hope can find time to look into other languages.

<comment><USER3> I personally don't see it that way. Usually the bottleneck is the database.

<comment><USER2> Probably you might be right, in my view database is just for persistence, most of the time text processing happens in the application or framwwork. Database is a very well understood system so reading and writing to it using language drivers can be optimized. Indeed go and rust both have excellent drivers for PostgreSQL, but still developing web application in them is not easy due to inherent text processing requirements and dealing with http request/response in json, html, xml, protocol buffers, blobs and various mime-types.

<comment><USER4> What text processing? You mean templating? Those a rather well solved problems, although the Go templates are a bit odd.

But Go, Rust, Scala and the like blow those dynamic typed languages out of the water when it comes to APIs.

For example. If you want a number to be a positive integer you would write a Go struct containing a uint. That's all.

Want it to be optional Rust or Scala have an optional Type.

If someone submits a negative number or a float the framework automatically generates an error message.

In ruby for example you would have to write a bunch of validations per hand and a bunch of tests too, to check if those work.

Writing APIs in Go is like half the work compared to Ruby or god forbid PHP.

Have not tries Node yet but i assume it to be on a level with Ruby.

<comment><USER2> It's not a solved problem in rust or go. It's still easier to write understandable text processing code in Python, Perl, Ruby, lisp than in Go or Rust.

Also for web backend Go, Rust cannot close the gap with Python or Ruby or lisp easily. Rust and Go are strong in their own domain writing web backend is not one of them. It does not mean one cannot write, it's just a lot of work.

When dealing with MIME types or REST or HTML or XML etc. dynamic typed languages are still easy, readable with reasonable performance. Only when one wants high performance, will go through the path of writing API in go or rust.

<comment><USER5> Go is already being used in lots of microservices.

<comment><USER6> If you've got 300 engineers and performance problems then that's a great idea.

If you have 3 engineers and a little seed funding then building Go microservices to serve a web app is probably just pissing away VC money.

Just because people do it doesn't make it a good idea.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> How exactly were you planning on using C++ for web? I have looked into this before, and concluded it's basically impossible. No matter what you do, you have to end up implementing a lot of the HTTP protocol because there aren't any off the shelf frameworks like Spring and Rails.

</comment><comment><USER8> In January I built a personal project on the web with Rust and had the positive experience I was hoping for. The efficiency of execution plus the cleanliness and memory safety of a modern language was the draw.

It took me a week of battling with the compiler to understand what I was doing, but afterwards it felt fairly natural.

My biggest hurdle was I went all in on async (the bikesheded, nightly feature). But a pet peeve of mine is that desktop apps were all async in the 90s and here we have webservers hoarding processes and threads, simply waiting on IO.

I quickly ran into the limits of Rust's async ecosystem. Hyper is an excellent library but there wasn't a webserver framework on top of it at the time. Now there is warp, so I intend to switch over to that from having rolled my own, but I hear some rumbling on reddit that it can lead to compiled size explosion, so gonna watch out for that.

For sql, I'm using mysql-async, but it seems like a single persons passion project. It's quite painful because even with the good libraries (serde) it feel broken to do so much hand writing of sql given the rich type information available in my structs. Everyone seems to use diesel but afaict it's incompatible with the async approach. This is my only real pain point right now.

The whole async ecosystem is still nightly and in flux all the time. Though, amazingly, it's worked quite well. It's clear the community has rallied behind it as most projects are on the bleeding edge. But hiccups happen such as mysql-async not yet supporting the new, nearly-stable version of futures.

Another pain point i've run into is there aren't great crypto libraries. Some very incomplete pure rust stuff. Some poorly documented wrappers of c stuff.

Finally, a third party web api I'm interfacing with doesn't have a rust library so I had to roll my own.

For other random needs I've been surprised by how often I find a great library. AWS libraries, for example, are surprisingly good.

My conclusion is that for web backends rust isn't plug-and-play yet (especially if you want to go all async). But it's pretty darn close.

And yeah, it's crazy fast. Like working in Modern C++ but with iron clad memory safety.

</comment><comment><USER5> Go is as performant for web backend CRUD as Java and .Net in my experience, despite being compiled. I am auditing Rust's performance but in the meantime changing the system architecture through things like message queues and/or in memory databases makes the performance increase by leaps and bounds.

</comment><comment><USER9> Here is also a very thourough perf test of a lot of web frameworks: [https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r18&hw=...](https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r18&hw=ph&test=fortune)

</comment><comment><USER10> \- async IO \- fast and safe parsing \- JHipster style end to end code generation off a data model

My wish list. Been noodling at making a Python port of JHipster, swapping in Rust parsers.

All libraries need to make async IO a priority.</comment>


Ask HN: Review my startup - TwitterGrep.com : NY Times of Twitter - <AUTHOR>

Hi Guys,
Just launched TwitterGrep.com - twitter + wefollow + disqus mashup
Aim: present the best of twitter in a clean and simple nytimes.com style with disqus.com to handle discussions
Target audience: people who don't twitter but are interested in twitter and the great info coming out of twitter
## PR breif ## Twitter Grep: Twitter powered news and discussion service
What TwitterGrep.com is
- Twitter Grep is a simple way to see and discuss all the latest news coming out of Twitter.
- TwitterGrep.com aims to be the New York Times/Bloomberg Terminal of Twitter. There's so much great information in Twitter, we're here to bring this information to you in the simplest form.
What TwitterGrep.com is NOT
- Twitter Grep is not some new fancy Twitter client
- Its not an Adobe AIR app
- Does not require you to have a Twitter account
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated
Cheers
Justin <comment><USER2> I like how the pics page lets you see larger amount of data (pictures) at once than is possible just using Twitter, although you might want to check out the layout on that page in Chrome -- some of the text gets covered by ads.

Other than that, I'm not sure what the site offers me. Are the News / Tech / Gossip pages simply custom lists of people that are followed? Why do I want to use your lists instead of using my Twitter account, which I've already customized to include the people I'm most interested in following?

If your target audience is people don't twitter but might be into it, they're either going to end up moving on to actually using Twitter, or decide it's not for them. In either case, they won't keep coming back to your site.

<comment><USER3> _Are the News / Tech / Gossip pages simply custom lists of people that are followed?_

This - you don't seem to explain exactly what news/tech/gossip actually _is_ or how you define breaking. Maybe for a non-twitter user they don't care but as a twitter user, I do. If that's your secret sauce, I still think you need to find some way of helping visitors understand just why your 'news' etc categories/lists are authoritative.

I like the idea of a lens on Twitter though.

<comment><AUTHOR> thanks jlees for the info!

i'll add some details to what breaking/gossip etc.. all define

basically - breaking - is the latest news from the top x many twitters for given tag

each tag - ie. news/gossip/etc.. is the top x twitters for given tag

re lens on twitter \- thats my main goal - just need to refine to display the best news to attract a userbase

cheers

justin

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> It would be nice to click on the links in the individual tweets.

<comment><AUTHOR> agreed

thats a work-in-progress at the moment - should be out in a few days

just wanted to launch asap

cheers

justin

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> <http://TwitterGrep.com>

<comment><AUTHOR> thanks adityakothadiya

cheers

justin

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> lots of ads.

<comment><AUTHOR> the add placement of <http://TwitterGrep.com> has been toned down

just one slot on the right in between user comments

thanks again for the input

Cheers

Justin

<comment><USER6> nice one. It's a nice site.

<comment><AUTHOR> thanks pclark!

I'm a big believer in twitter (and socially created news) as news services - and created this startup to prove it can work

let me know if you have any thoughts or suggestions

Cheers

Justin \- <http://TwitterGrep.com></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Kindle for Android now available - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2010/06/28/kindle-android/

<comment><USER2> Does anyone know why this app needs to read the Phone state? According to the Android documentation it's used for location, monitoring incoming calls, and SMS. I can't think of any reason Amazon would need that information to let me read books?

<comment><USER3> I would guess they need it to call TelephonyManager.getDeviceId as part of their DRM device authorization scheme: [http://developer.android.com/reference/android/telephony/Tel...](http://developer.android.com/reference/android/telephony/TelephonyManager.html#getDeviceId%28%29)

Or maybe they change their sync settings (for "Whispersync") based on your network status.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Good, glad it came up here. I was looking forward to this, but I'm getting total corruption on all of my books. I tried uninstalling and re-downloading the books and tried more than 10 different books. All come up scrambled and crash the app like so:

<http://i48.tinypic.com/fcmmq8.jpg>

<comment><USER4> Apparently this is a bug in Cyanogen mod - [http://code.google.com/p/cyanogenmod/issues/detail?id=1663#c...](http://code.google.com/p/cyanogenmod/issues/detail?id=1663#c35)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I'm interested in this, since my phone is my favorite book reader. The best app I've found so far for reading on Android is Aldiko ... and it's quite good: I'd be interested to see a comparison. The linked article is not particularly enthusiastic.

(Min version is 1.6 -- I'm going to have to upgrade my phone somehow before trying it out.)

<comment><USER6> It's a rather incomplete app at this point on Android. They clearly didn't anticipate how quickly Android would grow.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Not available for some countries, had to switch with a global sim so I could download. Also for Project Gutenberg books you have to search for them by name (meaning you can't browse free books) and on top of that you actually have to purchase them for $0. I'm not that much into buying ebooks but this crappy UX definitely won't help on me becoming one. Luckily there are other options on the Android Market.

</comment><comment><USER8> It's great to finally have this available but I've gotten pretty comfortable with Aldiko and epubs while waiting for this.

<comment><USER9> Aldiko is one of the best around, on any platform.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Anybody knows why you newspapers, magazines and blogs are currently not available? I own a kindle, and the only reason i would really need a mobile reader is for the magazines.

<comment><USER11> It seems like a licensing issue. Periodicals aren't available on any of the non-Kindle device platforms, IIRC.

<comment><USER12> I've observed this on my laptop and iPad. Subscription content is only available on the Kindle hardware.

Sadly, this means I'll probably be canceling my NY Times subscription next month, as the free iPad app offers enough content to make the $20/month Kindle-only sub pretty unappealing.</comment></comment></comment>


Popcorn Time for music is here - <AUTHOR> http://thenextweb.com/apps/2015/10/13/popcorn-time-for-music-is-here/ <comment><USER2> _...is an interface that makes searching through the sea of legally hazy music files easier._

Matthew Hussey, don't be a fucking disingenus asshole and/or moron. Unless it only searches for orphaned works, those which have copyrights that have expired, or are licensed under Creative Commons, then it's a piracy tool. Full stop.

Trying to frame it so politely is a total dick move, as if I took your whole article and reposted it in block quotes, slapped ads all over it and kept the income for myself.

<comment><USER3> The author is absolutely right though, if torrent sites only hosted music that was legally allowed to be redistributed then that's all that would appear. By your reasoning every search engine is a piracy tool, wget is a piracy tool, hell the internet is a piracy tool too.

Why is the burden on the developer to implement software to detect whether the work you're downloading is copyrighted in your country when it's the user who is in control and makes all the decisions.

<comment><USER2> I read closer over at Billboard Biz - this author did a shit job of getting into the technology.

"Legally hazy" is still a terrible overview.

The guy readily admits he's using public APIs to pull files. Do I think he's violating Terms of Service by leeching content this way? Absolutely! It may not be "throw him in cuffs" kind of rule/law breaking, but I do feel that he's relying on loopholes that were not intended when rights holders and service providers (ex: YouTube) allowed the YouTube API to function.

Also, the developer claims that the service will allow "editing of audio" and that opens a whole new dimension of violating copyright by creating derivative works. Even if they're not saved, they're being "performed" when the sound comes out of the speakers.

I'm really, really big on wanting to see copyright reformed and updated to suit modern technology and user habits. Absolutely! But this guy over here says the only reason he created the service was because Pandora didn't work one weekend and he didn't like Spotify's ads. What a cheap, selfish little person.

<comment><USER4> Well, there are countries (for example Romania), where Spotify/Rdio/Pandora/Netflix/Hulu, etc are not available at all due to copyright licences.

There is no other option to stream music/videos legally, even with a paid service.

<comment><USER2> Right, I do understand. I think the point I was trying to make is that "rights holders" made legally binding deals with certain entities, and trying to use those entities (YouTube) in a work-around violates a different kind of binding deal - how a system uses an API. It's pretty hard to describe, but I have a really bad feeling about the approach being shown off and asserted as legitimate.

<comment><USER4> I remember that streaming from Youtube on your own website/app is not prohibited by Terms of Service as long as the website/app developer adds the youtube video as embed. If this app shows the embed video in bottom corner (I don't know if it does, it fails to run on my Mac), I don't see it breaking the ToS.

<comment><USER2> I sincerely doubt that the video runs in the bottom corner, and I'm not going near the program at all. I'm criticizing from far, far away. I like to think I'm on the high ground, metaphorically speaking, after reading what he says it does.

He's just been sued by 3 majors, immediate injunction type of case. My guess? He'll be toast by the end of 2015.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> First "Airbnb/Yelp/other-big-startup for ______" now "Popcorn time for _____". Its like we are starting to highlight black hat startups</comment>


Ask HN: How do you transition your projects to use newer technology? - <AUTHOR> I've worked at a number of startups and usually, once the technology is picked for the initial stage project, it takes a monumental effort to ever upgrade it. Obviously, there is no reason to upgrade to the "next hot thing"; however, there are lots of situations where it seems like the way to do it.
For instance, moving from Angular 1 to Angular 2 or React. Using libraries like Redux to deal with data flow. Or using TypeScript for type safety.
Even larger jumps are moving from one language or platform to another. <comment><USER2> It really, really depends on the technology. Moving JavaScript to TypeScript or PHP to Hack is easy by design. The new technology is built specifically to allow you to migrate the old technology gradually.

Angular 1 to 2, on the other hand, wasn't designed to be an easy transition. They're very different frameworks.

So to answer your question, I use a new technology that allows gradual transition (when possible), or I use "free" time to do a full rewrite. If I find enough time to make something stable enough to move into production, great; otherwise, I've demonstrated empirically that we don't have enough time to invest in a transition.</comment>


AutoScraper: A Smart Automatic Web Scraper for Python - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/alirezamika/autoscraper <comment><AUTHOR> This project is made for automatic web scraping to make scraping easy. It gets an url or the html content of a web page and a list of sample data which we want to scrape from that page. It learns the scraping rules and returns the similar elements. Then you can use this learned object with new urls to get similar content of those new pages.</comment>


Announcement of the Nobel Prize in Chemistry 2016 - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfB4NHDI83Q <comment><AUTHOR> Watch the cool Molecular 4-wheel drive 'car' at t=15m27s

[https://youtu.be/DfB4NHDI83Q?t=15m27s](https://youtu.be/DfB4NHDI83Q?t=15m27s)</comment>


Show HN: Eskéndereyya – Learn How to Read and Write Arabic in Latin Script - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/samihasan/eskendereyya <comment><USER2> I'll play devils advocate here. Their solution is too complex and tries to fix a non-problem.

For someone learning Arabic the letters are the first of many challenging steps. I learned the Arabic letters in 1 day with flashcards. That single day was easy compared with everything that came afterwards. Using a romanized scripts makes all these subsequent steps with grammar and accents much harder.

I can see how this would be helpful in accurately learning new accents, but accents are notoriously inaccurate and flexible, the Arabic letters leave that flexibility, outside of academic text Romanized letters would require so many exceptions that it be like nailing jello to a wall.

It would be useful for news organizations if this system was applied across many languages so that we can always spell and pronounce names correctly.

The use of non-english keyboard letters creates complexity. I much prefer the use of number replacements for letters that teens use when texting. sa7?

<comment><USER3> >Using a romanized scripts makes all these subsequent steps with grammar and accents much harder.

This is the _exact_ problem with learning Japanese using roumaji (rouma ji = roman character; ローマ字), because you of course start to read the latin script with your starting accent (assuming of course your first language is written using the latin alphabet).

However some textbooks persist with using it, despite being excellent otherwise (Japanese: The Spoken Language being one). I can't stress enough the need to move off reading Latin characters. It is also useful to learn the characters by sound rather than their roman equivalents. i.e instead of learning that ロ is "ro", you could learn it by listening: [https://youtu.be/aLEtZ2CRoho?t=1m53s](https://youtu.be/aLEtZ2CRoho?t=1m53s)

The mental association is everything.

<comment><USER4> Except romaji isn't used to teach pronunciation, it's meant to help the student read while they are still getting familiar with kana; much like furigana for kanji.

Japanese characters have one pronunciation in all circumstances (excluding diacritical modifications). Respectively in romaji, consonants and vowels will always have the same pronunciation. Compare that to American English where accents have been removed and even native speakers can have trouble pronouncing new words.

<comment><USER3> >Except romaji isn't used to teach pronunciation

I know, but students will continue to treat it as a pronunciation guide anyway, unless told specifically how to pronounce otherwise. It's especially bad when the Japanese is supported by romaji way into the course, which fosters laziness in the student.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I was going to ask "why?" before I read in the overview the reason being helping non Arabic speaking learners of the language. It still defeats the purpose of learning a language to be able to read literature written in original script and communicate in writing with the language readers. The only case where I see this useful is when verbally communicating using words memorized using this Latin script as tourists do when visiting a foreign land.

As an Arab I also hope that the motivation behind this is not ideological. Like how the Turkish language was transformed to use a Latin-based script system.

Edit: As of the claim of it being useful to Arabs, please no! Arabs when use "Arabish" tend to use it badly with no vowels making pronouncing words hard and sometimes ambiguous. The "Arabish" trend was popular in the 90's (in the infancy of Internet or at least Internet penetration) and has declined dramatically in the 2000's. Arabs lazy enough to not write in Arabic script would also be lazy enough to not learn the proper usage of this Latin script.

<comment><AUTHOR> Author here.

Thanks for the feedback.

Regarding the concern of this substituting the Arabic script, I addressed this in the intro section of the project where I laid it out plain and clear that the target is novice learners of Arabic as I noticed that they suffer with pronunciation and reading skills and I wanted to help them overcoming this gap to make the transition to the Arabic script smoother and less painful.

As far as I can tell, the project was not ideologically or politically motivated but to be honest with you, the Turkish language was an influencing factor on the development of this project whether which parts to use and which parts to pass but I am not sure if you know that Turkish throughout its history was not written only in Arabic script but in other scripts like for example Armenian but the Ottomans adopted the Arabic script for their official communications until came Mustafa Kemal and introduced his reforms and switched to Latin which was a good idea since writing Turkish in Arabic script was a nightmare.

Re your last concern, like I said in that part, it's for regional languages/dialects not the standard variety and I outlined the reasons for that.

<comment><USER6> Hi. I applaud your motivation, but to be honest, when I was learning Arabic, the only trouble I would regularly run into would be with the tashkeel, which I find difficult to memorise. On the other hand, it was much easier for me to associate each letter with their respective sound(s).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> This is a good idea, and one that I could certainly have used when learning Arabic— but its real utility is not for Modern Standard Arabic- it's for 'amiya/3amiya (spoken Arabic), which, to those not in the know, differs from region to region and is vastly different from both written and spoken forms of Modern Standard Arabic.

As someone suggested above, learning Arabic script is the first-- and _smallest_ \--of many challenges for those trying to learn formal Arabic.

There are few good systematized sources available for people trying to learn spoken Arabic, particularly if they're not particularly interested in reading the news or classical texts. I'm thinking of aid workers, diplomats, vagabonds, whatever.

A system such as this has great utility to these people— except it already exists in much of the Arabic-speaking world, particularly the Levant and Egypt, where numbers are used to represent sounds not found in the Latin alphabet.

For example: "You will speak Arabic soon" (Levantine) - "إنت رح تحكي عربي قريبا" \- can also be rendered as "inta ra7 ti7ki 3rabi 2areeban". This makeshift system is used widely in texts in Lebanon and elsewhere. Utilizing this existing method will be easier and have wider applicability.

</comment><comment><USER8> If you are Turkish and opted-in for religion classes in the school, you learn some parts of the Qoran reading them in Latin alphabet. Because we don't know arabic alphabet, but Turkish one (Latin alphabet with 3-4 extra letters). Actually one of the letters in "extended Eskéndereyya", "ş" is a Turkish letter, created for Turkish language. I don't understand why Eskéndereyya is different than the alphabet we used to use in high school.

</comment><comment><USER9> This is not a good idea. From a language learning perspective, it is essential to become immersed in the sounds and shapes of a language as soon as possible. Approximations will not do. Arabic is equipped with sounds that foreign speakers are not able to produce without significant effort and coaching.

This will make it more difficult to become proficient.

</comment><comment><USER10> Why not [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_31635](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_31635) or [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_233](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_233)?

</comment><comment><USER11> Super slick and exicitng. Since this is my wheel house I will check it out later and report back something more constructive.

Thanks for the work, sami. I love to see people bringing Arabic to the open source world. It needs love.

People might also like Qalb (heart or template, not sure which romanized as tired, validating comments later in this thread), which was an awesome idea to me.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qalb_(programming_language)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qalb_\(programming_language\))

</comment><comment><USER12> I like this idea. But I am not sure about its ease of use. There is a much less precise but significantly speedier way to convey Arabic words using the Roman alphabet on a QWERTY keyboard using the Arabic chat alphabet. [1]. The more difficult sounds in Arabic are conveyed with numbers. For example ح is 7 - and ع is 3. In both cases the Arabic letters are visually similar to the character that represents them.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_chat_alphabet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_chat_alphabet)

<comment><AUTHOR> The problem with this system, besides the appearance and inherent ambiguity to name a few, is that it doesn't cover essential parts of the language like "stress" and "tonality" where other writing systems do.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> This should certainly be adopted by official/serious projects (such as albums, movies, events, etc.) with Arabic names written in Latin script. The use of the "chat" form (e.g. "7" for "ح" and "3" for "ع") is just horrid and makes any serious work look childish.

</comment><comment><USER14> Trying to explain glottal stops with English examples is pointless - "Apple" doesn't begin with a glottal stop in English; "fear" and "ear" differ only in the absence of /f/.

German does introduce a epenthetic glottal stop before word-initial vowels, but not English.

Also, attempting to explain /ɪ/ as "Fin" -> "fen" is also unhelpful.

<comment><USER15> I've seen it described as the sound or throat action in the middle of "uh oh!".

I found that kinda useful.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> For anyone interested in this space one of my buddies made a site / apps for helping write Arabic transliterations: [http://www.arabictypist.com/](http://www.arabictypist.com/)

Not sure if he's active on HN so posting it for him and forwarding Eskéndereyya to him. Great work OP!

</comment><comment><USER17> Has anyone ever tried writing English in Arabic script? From working with complex text layout, I know Arabic letters have 4 forms (isolated, initial, medial, final). It would be kind of cool if I could spot check the shaping engine is working properly by testing with English in Arabic script...

<comment><USER18> Come to the middle east. Plenty of English words written in Arabic. McDonald's and subway immediately come to mind.

<comment><USER19> Always got a chuckle when Canadian tourists would take pictures of Tim Hortons written in Arabic: [http://cdn.torontolife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/tim- ho...](http://cdn.torontolife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/tim-hortons- oman.jpg)

<comment><AUTHOR> I prefer to write Tim Hortons like this "تِم هُرتُنز" in Arabic but that's just me.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> This looks a lot how many Arabs write using Latin keyboards.

Example : "أهلاً بكم", becomes "ahlan bekom"

I find it a cook 'quick-an-dirty' trick to start speaking/writing with locals without worrying much about proper grammar (which is EXTREMELY complex)

<comment><AUTHOR> Well, "أهلاً بكم" which means "Welcome" for second person plural in English is transliterated into "Eskéndereyya" as "ählan bekom".

Note the umlaut mark on the letter "a" as it's a Hamzat Qaŧў همزة قطع and should be pronounced with glottal stop. Of course, in colloquial speech across many dialects, it softened to just a plain "a".

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Some discussion from a month ago: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12956885](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12956885)

</comment><comment><USER22> You may also like this universal script, Shwa. [http://shwa.org/](http://shwa.org/)

</comment><comment><USER23> That sounds like "Alexander". Interesting.

<comment><USER24> ... not sure how well this system will fare, given that "Eskéndereyya" is 'literally' the arabic name of the city of Alexandria.

<comment><AUTHOR> Just a minor correction, "Eskéndereyya" is Alexandria in Egyptian Arabic not MSA. In MSA, it's "al Iskándareyya" using this writing system rules.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Your case endings in the exercise are wrong, it should be "Rȃbbi assamáu," "ära alħayáta"

<comment><AUTHOR> That's right in abstract but in the context of poetry, the case ending can change arbitrarily and rules are bent to serve the medium, and that's what exactly Shakira did in this song. :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> So cool! Language translation standardization projects are great teaching tools</comment>


Which blog reader do you like most / use most often? - <AUTHOR>

<comment><USER2> Newsblur.

It does everything I need and has not let me down. I have renewed once after a year and have every intention of continuing to renew it.

I wouldn't just call it a 'blog reader' though. It's an RSS reader.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thx for being my lone reply :).</comment></comment>


The Leaning Buildings of Santos, Brazil - <AUTHOR> http://www.amusingplanet.com/2013/04/the-leaning-buildings-of-santos-brazil.html

<comment><USER2> It must be a struggle to keep the buildings connected to water, sewer and gas lines as they keep shifting.

 _" Ideally, the foundations of buildings should reach bedrock, which in the region is about 50 meters deep. But these buildings in Santos' waterfront has foundations that are only 4 or 5 meters deep. After the leaning in the first building became visible, there was realization that the practice of placing tall buildings on shallow footings could not continue, and a requirement was added to Santos building code to use deep foundation for tall buildings."_

This reminds me so much of software development: we ignore sound engineering practices that have been known for a long time, then scramble to prop things up when they start to fall apart.

</comment><comment><USER3> Putting in some self-leveling concrete in your apartment would only be a temporary solution, without correcting the foundation. And it has a tragedy- of-the-commons aspect to it as well. If all your neighbors also did it, the additional weight would tilt the building even faster.

<comment><USER4> I don't really see the problem with having tilted floors compared to the risk of, oh _dying in a structural collapse_</comment></comment>


Google AdWords Can Now Track iOS App Downloads - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2012/10/24/google-adwords-can-now-track-ios-app-downloads-in-addition-to-android/ "Google announced today that marketers and advertisers promoting iOS applications can now monitor conversions – meaning app downloads – using Google's AdWords. (...) However, there is a caveat: Google says that for iOS applications, it's only able to track downloads driven by ads served within mobile apps – it can't track iOS app downloads that originate from ad on Google Search or its Google Display network. That limits the level of insight Google can provide into the Apple ecosystem, but at least it's a step in the right direction in terms of understanding which campaigns are most effective." <comment><USER2> Nice work by Google. I'll have to keep this in mind.</comment>