Please get an ergonomic computer desk - <AUTHOR> http://deskfair.com/ <comment><USER2> My treadmill desk, built from a $400 walmart treadmill, pieces of my former Ikea 'Jerker' desk, and a $30 metal shelf from Costco.

<http://letterblock.com/images/treadmill_desk.jpg>

So obviously I can do walking at various speeds and inclines (usually 2 mph at 4 degrees) or standing. I have an ergo standing mat that I put on top of the treadmill if I'm going to be standing for a bit. Whenever I get the rest of this office cleaned up enough, I'll look for a small easy chair for occasional resting or iPad use. Off camera there's also a stand fan, which you may need if you walk for hours and your office window faces south in Florida. (My office has always been hot, and I find that moving actually makes it more bearable.)

<comment><USER3> How do you find coding while walking? It seems like one's body would jostle too much to be able to concentrate well.

<comment><USER2> I often pace while thinking. An ongoing frustration for me has been having to sit down or otherwise stop to record what I'm thinking about. If you can't relate to that at all, then the treadmill desk might not be a good fit for you, or at least not for the same reasons it is for me.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Another cheaper option is a standing desk with a high office chair. I used one of these for about two years and it did make a positive difference. You can stand or sit and it costs no more than a regular desk. (My workplace uses desks from Ikea, they are cheap and comfortable)

Unfortunately, I like to switch between 'sit', 'stand' and 'slouch'; slouch being reserved for when I'm really "in the zone". I missed that option and eventually went back to a sitting desk. I'd love to try one of these mechanical ones.

<comment><AUTHOR> The slouching when in the zone is true for me as well, which is why the pure standing or standing / tall sitting are not a good option for me personally. They just kill certain types of productivity.

Adjustable sit-stand desks are just unbeatable in terms of being least disruptive. Whether the cost can be reasonably written off as an investment in better health and productivity really depends. Long term, I think it's very worth it, but the initial cost does sting somewhat.

<comment><USER5> What about standing desk + high bar stool style seat to rest your ass on?

My dad's drafting table setup was similar to this.

<comment><AUTHOR> I've played with that setup as well and it works ok, but not great.

One problem is that the bar stools are hard to get on and then move to be positioned properly.

Another problem is that leaning against the edge often doesn't work well, because a) the chair keeps slipping back and b) you rest your butt on a narrow edge which presses on nerves, blood vessels and bones, making it very uncomfortable.

I've tried lab stools, ironing chairs, bar stools, etc. and the problems are similar. Drafting chairs could work, but are too short for me - made for tall sitting desks (drafting table), not standing height.

I can think of two potentially comfortable solutions I haven't really tried yet:

1\. A thick, padded round bar like they have on the London tube and other trains to lean against. This could be mounted on a wall, which eliminates the sliding away problem.

2\. There are (expensive) saddle chairs - where you sit upright on a wide and split bicycle type seat that puts you at ergonomically healthier angles (135 degrees from thigh to back instead of 90 degrees of "normal" sitting). No leaning/slouching possible on those though. Further problem: Sitting on your reproductive organs for long hours may be uncomfortable and unhealthy.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> I made this site, trying to build a useful buying guide.

I'll be in and out, but feel free to ask any questions here or through the contact form on the site. I'll try my best to get back in a reasonable time frame.

I'd also appreciate any feedback on the technical/marketing aspects of the site.

Thanks! Ben

<comment><USER6> I think the products are too expensive. This guy made his own standing desk for $0.00 (reusing stuff lying around the house) and then added sit/stand capability by adding a drafting chair from Staples for about $120...

<http://www.flickr.com/photos/paul_houle/4681895723/>

<comment><AUTHOR> I agree, they are expensive, and I'm actually planning on adding a do-it- yourself section with solutions like the one you've referenced.

Some people pay a lot of money for fancy office chairs though (Aerons for example), and I'd always advise to go with a sit-stand desk.

Drafting chairs with a tall desk are certainly worth a try, but it can be difficult to impossible to get the same relative height sitting on the drafting chair and standing up - this can put your wrists at a very uncomfortable angle when typing for example. (I'm pretty tall, maybe that's why this hasn't worked so well for me).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Yup, another maserati problem at hand judging from the prices. But, yeah an ergonomic workstation does make all the difference.

</comment><comment><USER8> Can anyone recommend something that can be ordered in Europe (Germany) without paying a fortune in shipping costs?

<comment><AUTHOR> The brand situation in Europe is very different. One of the cheaper ones that looks decent (haven't seen it IRL though), is the below for 499 Euros.

[http://aktivshop.de/catalog/elektrisch-hhenverstellbarer- sch...](http://aktivshop.de/catalog/elektrisch-hhenverstellbarer- schreibtisch-p-4706.html)

The following page has a listing, but I can't say anything about quality/credibility of products/suppliers:

[http://www.bueromoebel-werksverkauf.de/inwerk_bm/steh- sitz-t...](http://www.bueromoebel-werksverkauf.de/inwerk_bm/steh-sitz- tische_seite_1.htm)

If more people are interested I can investigate European options as well.

If you find anything, it would be nice if you could share it with me via the contact form on my site, so I can look into adding it.</comment></comment>


New List of Americans Tracked Without Needing a Warrant - <AUTHOR> https://www.newsweek.com/trumps-secret-new-watchlist-lets-his-administration-track-americans-without-needing-warrant-1504772 <comment><USER2> Note that the inclusion of "information activists" on this list makes the scope extremely broad.

</comment><comment><USER3> This website is pretty awful without an Adblock (on mobile). Couldn't even get through 3 paragraphs.

</comment><comment><USER4> The road to authoritarianism is always an easy one-way street. The road back is hard, uphill, and soaked with blood.

<comment><USER5> We've asked you many times to stop posting unsubstantive comments to HN. Cheap ideological warfare complete with a call for political violence? and a tedious cliché at the same time? Obviously not what this site is for. No more of this please, regardless of what you're for or against.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

<comment><USER4> that was not a call to anything! It is a historical analysis. I am happy to cite my sources.

Isn't assuming best intentions one of the rules here?

<comment><USER6> It sounded more like an accurate historical observation.

Weird comment...

<comment><USER5> Maybe so, but that isn't enough. It also needs not to be trite and shallow. Note this guideline:

" _Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive._ "

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

There's tons of previous explanation if you skip over the trivial bits in [https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...](https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20generic%20ideolog&sort=byDate&type=comment).

Also [https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...](https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20generic%20discussion&sort=byDate&type=comment) more generically.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Even graphene has weak spots - <AUTHOR> http://news.rice.edu/2013/03/28/even-graphene-has-weak-spots/

<comment><USER2> _> The kryptonite to this Superman of materials is in the form of a seven-atom ring that inevitably occurs at the junctions of grain boundaries in graphene, where the regular array of hexagonal units is interrupted. At these points, under tension, polycrystalline graphene has about half the strength of pristine samples of the material._

 _> The lines in polycrystalline sheets are called grain boundaries, and the atoms at these boundaries are occasionally forced to change the way they bond by the unbreakable rules of topology. Most common of the "defects" in graphene formation studied by Yakobson's group are adjacent five- and seven-atom rings that are a little weaker than the hexagons around them._

Honestly, the findings seem pretty standard and are in line with material properties of more traditional polycrystalline or even amorphous materials. With all sorts of material failure modes, it's these "pressure points" that are the first point of failure.

(Note: I've done Carbon Nanotube research in the past and hence I'm familiar with this kind of material, but I'm by no means a materials science or mechanical engineering expert)

I've done these kinds of CVD depositions (used to make these graphene sheets discussed in the OP) myself, and imperfections (which are visible under TEM microscopy) are the norm.</comment>


Ask HN: Give me your used laptop (and a book) - <AUTHOR>

SHORT: I want your used laptop (and a book), will you give it to me?
I think I could I just you the simplest reason why I need it.
I am currently learning to program, and I don't have a computer of my own. Up to now, I am just renting computer since six months ago when I started learning to code. Renting is costly and computers have a lot of restrictions. (Not to mention setting up the computer, automation will do the job).
I've already learned the basics of programming. Many recommends Python for complete beginners, so I did. I want to focus and spend more of my time learning/programming without worrying about the cost, restrictions, and setting up the computer.
So, will you help me guys? I'll make it clear that I am NOT asking for your money (nor I am letting you give me some so I could just buy my own, NO.). What I asked is your soon-to-be trashed laptop. Maybe you have recently bought a macbook, and there's no place for the old one. Maybe, you don't need it anymore and want to trash it already. Or maybe, you're just too generous and you want to help a stranger. You can donate it to me. That's already a really big help to me. :))
I am serious. I want to learn.
(And also, if you happen to have a book about programming, maybe you could donate it too. :) )
Send me an email:

    email@example.com
 THANKS A LOT!
(Sorry HN, you can delete this post if inappropriate :) <comment><USER2> A used laptop that would be sufficient for Python programming really isn't going to cost you much.

</comment><comment><USER3> <http://hackershelf.com/browse/> has enough free books covering a range of subjects to get you more than on your way.

</comment><comment><USER4> Where are you located?

<comment><AUTHOR> Manila, PH

<comment><USER4> Do you have any kind of hardware already? Things like a keyboard, a mouse, a monitor, etc. That makes a huge difference when shipping stuff out.

<comment><USER5> Laptops traditionally come with some form of all of those items integrated into them.

<comment><USER4> _I know_. Just want to know if this person has any sort of hardware that would allow use of a tower and/or raspberry pi.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Japan's Rent-a-Family Industry - <AUTHOR> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/30/japans-rent-a-family-industry <comment><USER2> This is a repost of [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16927649](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16927649) from two weeks ago.

So in that vein, here's my comment on that one:

Getting a little tired of these showing up. Yes, these services exist, yes some people use them, and yes, it's totally "weird Japan."

But no, they're not anywhere NEAR mainstream. I think using the word "industry" really makes the reader think it is and imagine a huge, dysfunctional society. I do appreciate the paragraph or so where they point out that this kind of thing has existed and does exist in other countries, as well -- I just don't understand why people always insist on pointing at a minor subculture in Japan and writing entire spiels about it as if it were a common thing.

Imagine a Japanese writer talking about the "greased pig chasing industry" in America.

<comment><USER3> I'm not sure how that's relevant. As others pointed out, even if it's very niche, it still exists. Yes, there are a number of articles fetishizing all of the "weird" aspects of Japan and perhaps in some way making them seem pervasive to people who haven't visited, but this article is doing absolutely none of that. (And even if it were, that's not the point.)

I'm going to gather you didn't make it past the first few paragraphs, because the entire point of the article, particularly in the last third, is an analysis of reality and what constitutes real relationships. The author tries to use this subculture to evaluate the context of families, unconditional love, and how money may or may not change the equation. For that reason, I think it's one of the best articles I've read recently, as it's a thought- provoking insight into human needs and the realities of modern relationships.

Give it another read. Just because the story takes place in Japan, doesn't mean it's about Japan.

<comment><USER4> I think adding perspective is extremely relevant.

If I did not read sdrothrock's comment, I really would have a completely different view of Japan and Japanese society.

I often feel a lot of these Western articles on various Asian cultures to be quite disingenuous.

The point of the article is entirely different if this was a common occurrence in Japanese society versus it being based on a tiny, niche, that affects less than 0.1% of Japanese people.

As an analogy, imagine a Japanese article talking about "American family relationships" based on child beauty pageants and Honey Boo Boo.

<comment><USER5> > _I often feel a lot of these Western articles on various Asian cultures to > be quite disingenuous._

Half of it is people that haven't lived abroad, and are not familiar with different cultures (or are only shallowly familiar) not being able to image a different way of life and set of values as "normal".

Another half of it is media wanting to paint a story such as that is larger and more impressive than it actually is.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> > "She was acting as a rental daughter, but at the same time she was telling > me how she felt as a real daughter," he said. "And yet, if it was a real > father-daughter relationship, maybe she wouldn't have spoken this honestly." > ... Yūichi Ishii, the founder of Family Romance, told me that he and his > "cast" actively strategize in order to engineer outcomes like Nishida's, in > which the rental family makes itself redundant in the client's life.

> I thought about my missed shrink appointment, and about a psychology > professor I met, Kenji Kameguchi, who has been trying for the past thirty > years to popularize family therapy in conflict-averse, stoical Japan, where > psychotherapy is still stigmatized. He said that he thought rental relatives > were, in an unschooled way, fulfilling some of the functions of group- > therapy techniques such as psychodrama, in which patients act out and > improvise one another's past situations or mental processes.

From this reading, it seems to me that Japan's fake relatives are the equivalent of counselors and psychiatrists in other countries.

<comment><USER7> If truth be told, the ersatz family, in some form or another, has been an important function in society since time immemorial. We're just not always honest with ourselves about it, and it's much easier to see it and comment about it from the distance of another culture.

I am reminded of the sad story from this Dar Williams song, where young partiers and the stock photos from picture frames serve this function for a Peter Pan syndrome man.

[https://g.co/kgs/oM3hCR](https://g.co/kgs/oM3hCR)

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I cannot help but get irked at the pity-projections that the western media has on Japan.

The structure of the article itself is made to sound how the war has damaged the social aspects of Japan - and how the numbers prove so. It starts with the story of a person using these services, till a point you realize the satire. Then the downfalls of such services while gracefully pushing in some irrelevant history.

In reality, showing this article to any average Japanese person in Japan, they would feel this is absurd. No such industry exists, there are a couple of weird companies popping up everywhere across the globe. Heard about the fake social media pictures company in the USA?

These articles need to stop! Every publication is increasingly posting these uncanny ideas about how strange this country is, too much western obsession.

</comment><comment><USER9> This sounds pretty wacky at first blush...then I remember a time post-college, post-divorce where I would go to hibachi restaurants because they would seat me with other people.

It wasn't a long period of time, but loneliness can be a real and powerful thing. Everyone is happy to offer solutions, but few actually acknowledge how it feels while you're trying to get a solution to work.

</comment><comment><USER10> If I pay extra, will they make awkward politically-charged comments in front of my friends, just like the real thing?

<comment><USER11> I'm not racist, but...

<comment><USER9> I think that was a comment about families in general, not about these particular people.

<comment> eric-hu I think that comment above yours was alluding to how many family gathering trainwreck conversations start: "I'm not (racist, sexist, homophobic, etc), but..."

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I think something like this could work in the U.S. ...esp. tailored at introverts, but add a bit of psychology to the mix, instead of hiring 'relatives' ... hire people to basically help you not be so 'lonely', and also help you to come out of your shell, maybe you struggle talking to women, they might be able to help you with that and help you become a good conversationalist -- etc... I get the grandma ordering up grand children though, it can be really lonely when everyone you know is dead, or gone off to start their own families.

A niche someone could start if they were so inclined might be: 'Big in Japan' .. take some of these weird Japan customs/business ideas and make one umbrella company that does it all--so anyone moving to US from Japan can continue those customs, etc... but it's broader so it's not so niche as to not have a place.

</comment><comment><USER13> Something strikes me as odd about things like this. There is regular discussion here on HN about how lonely some people are, depressive isolation, and so on. And yet here people view this as 'well that's weird' for having a company, however obscure, that would provide a product that could remedy this solution.

I see it as little different than prostitution. Somebody wants something that's fulfills a need that's generally provided for free * , yet if those unwilling, unable, or uninteresting in fulfilling this desire are willing to pay for it then why in the world aren't there more companies offering it? I don't think this would even _inherently_ entail a denial of reality. It's just a way for people to fulfill another psychosocial need.

</comment><comment><USER14> What a sad world we live in where there are people who need this sort of thing. The worst part is, I get it.

<comment><USER15> Totally, at first I thought it's weird also but after reading Kazushige Nishida's story, it's understandable. I may use this service if I were in his shoes.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> There is a Greek movie based on the exact same idea. Its the "Alps" by George Lanthimos (later known from "Dogtooth" movie).

I don't about Japan, but that movie had a quite depressing ending (not to mention that the whole thing was kinda creepy and unsettling).

<comment><USER17> There is also, unsurprisingly, a Japanese movie based on that exact same idea. More than one, in fact.

It plays a part in _Noriko 's Dinner Table_.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noriko%27s_Dinner_Table](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noriko%27s_Dinner_Table)

This is referenced in the plot summary: _[...] As it turns out, however, Kumiko has no real family, and the people she introduced Noriko to are paid actors working for Kumiko 's organisation, I.C. Corp. The organisation offers paid roleplay services to interested clients, allowing them to fulfill their fantasies of a happy family life._

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> "I thought I was a strong person,"But when you end up alone you feel very lonely."

BOOM right there... Loneliness and isolation causes people to do weird and desperate things. If you're lonely and isolating it might be time to join a group or get a pet. There are thousands upon thousands of groups everywhere and online (though meeting in person is preferred to combat the isolation part).

Personally I see these types of "industries" as predatory... they are no different from the snake-oil salesman selling a dying man a cure for cancer.

</comment><comment><USER19> I have always been seeing this as a solid need especially in Japan. I know several people in japan who recently divorced that experience loneliness, they would host dinners and meet-ups like every week or so. Plus young people are dating less and less here, Plus Plus there are a lot of socially awkward people who will have a hard time trying to build a family.

<comment><USER20> "Plus young people are dating less and less here" \- I keep seeing this a lot. Why are people dating less and less?

<comment><USER21> The short answer is money. <50 people now work the same amount as their parents generation for much less money and benefits.

People are more interested in spending the money and time they have on hanging out with their friends or their hobbies than dating.

Basically all of Japan's "problems" boil down to society cutting inputs then acting shocked that the output has dropped, then choosing to blame the younger generations instead of helping them. Cf. avocado toast in the west

<comment><USER22> When it comes to life in Tokyo in particular, people really do not have time for anything outside of work and a small slice of time on weekends (if you even get that--overtime is even more crushing if you're a man since you're born to work). When you factor in the overtime and 45-90 minute commutes each way, that really doesn't leave any time to do anything else. In smaller cities, the commute isn't nearly as bad as Tokyo so that provides a little more breathing room, and that's why I chose to live away from Tokyo despite fewer job options and being in a fairly "boring" town.

And when it comes to money, it's primarily based on age and nothing else. A 59 year old thumb twiddler counting down the days until he can retire and chug some beers from morning to night will easily be getting paid more than double a 28 year old engineer whose work is the backbone of the company.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Here's an interview with the founder of the rent-a-family agency mentioned in the article: [https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2017/11/paying- fo...](https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2017/11/paying-for-fake- friends-and-family/545060/)

<comment><USER24> Link to previous HN discussion on this article: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15651510](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15651510)

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> [https://hn.algolia.com/?query=Japan%E2%80%99s%20Rent-a- Famil...](https://hn.algolia.com/?query=Japan%E2%80%99s%20Rent-a- Family%20Industry&sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=story&storyText=false&prefix&page=0)

</comment><comment><USER26> Every culture has their own "weirdness". It might seem weird to some us, but hey, who are we to tell them how to cope up with their lives if we can't even fix our own.

<comment><USER27> Don't worry, it's _very weird_ in Japan too.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> That story brought tears to my eyes.</comment>


The Effect Of Sleep On Happiness - <AUTHOR> https://www.trackinghappiness.com/effect-sleep-happiness/?hn <comment><USER2> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17558542](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17558542)

</comment><comment><USER3> I read Why We Sleep and it's eye opening to discover the crucial part of us we take for granted.

I also recently bought Oura Ring to track my sleep and it has been great to see the analysis of my sleep.

I used to wake up at 4:30AM with an alarm now I wake up around 8:00AM without an alarm.

No coffee or nap required throughout the day.</comment>


Boeing hit by WannaCry virus – could cripple some jet production - <AUTHOR> https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-hit-by-wannacry-virus-fears-it-could-cripple-some-jet-production/ <comment><USER2> FWIW, the headline of the article has been changed by the Seattle Times. The second clause is now _" but says no impact on jet production"_; originally, it was: _" could cripple some jet production"_.

(it's about 1 hour since the original submission)

<comment><USER3> paging dang

<comment><USER4> Send them an email (firstname.lastname@example.com? not sure, on mobile, check site), as they claim to only see comments like this by chance.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Anyone know for sure this is WC? Anyone seen actual samples? Is this just a case of people that would not really know the differences seeing something like what they think WannaCry behaves like and jumping the gun. I would hope this is something new.

edit: It's all overblown

[https://twitter.com/GossiTheDog/status/979133770921017347](https://twitter.com/GossiTheDog/status/979133770921017347)

[https://twitter.com/GossiTheDog/status/979134886467526656](https://twitter.com/GossiTheDog/status/979134886467526656)

[https://twitter.com/GossiTheDog/status/979140927813046273](https://twitter.com/GossiTheDog/status/979140927813046273)

<comment><USER6> I've worked at a large company similar to Boeing. Our IT providers are the same (CSC). Backups are regimented and any virus activity is dealt via, as the tweet puts it, remediation. If a computer is detected as having a virus/suspicious activity, etc, it is carted off immediately and wiped (they possibly do forensics, dunno). The system is reimaged, backups are checked and restored.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> >Once the news broke, some on social media raised the "nightmare scenario" of the virus infecting an airplane's control software and possibly triggering a ransomware demand while in the air.

>"The plane would have to have been connected to an infected system.," he said. "The chances are pretty minimal."

If they can't confidently say the chances are guaranteed 0% then they need to actually look in to it and not just dismiss the idea.

<comment><USER8> Well, aircraft avionics do not run Windows. Thankfully. Though some of the diagnostic and maintenance equipment almost certainly does. So there's probably a path for malware, though likely not mainstream Windows ransomware.

<comment><USER9> I've worked on (non-safety critical) airborne systems that ran Windows Embedded, as freightening as it sounds.

<comment><USER10> And there's evidence the "non-safety critical" airborne systems are not nearly as well isolated from the flight control systems as most people assume:

[https://www.wired.com/2015/05/feds-say-banned-researcher- com...](https://www.wired.com/2015/05/feds-say-banned-researcher-commandeered- plane/)

"He obtained physical access to the networks through the Seat Electronic Box, or SEB. These are installed two to a row, on each side of the aisle under passenger seats, on certain planes. After removing the cover to the SEB by "wiggling and Squeezing the box," Roberts told agents he attached a Cat6 ethernet cable, with a modified connector, to the box and to his laptop and then used default IDs and passwords to gain access to the inflight entertainment system. Once on that network, he was able to gain access to other systems on the planes."

That one might just be a security researcher big-noting himself, but combined with this next one, I do not have a great deal of confidence in Boeing (or any of the airline industry's) software security teams...

[https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2017/11/15/dhs-says-it- remo...](https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2017/11/15/dhs-says-it-remotely- hacked-a-boeing-757-sitting-on-a-runway/)

I wonder what we'd find if Tavis Ormandy were seconded to Boeing for six months? (And can I have a heads-up if that happens? I've got some stock I'd like to short...)

<comment><USER11> That bullshit story being pushed by this bullshitter for years does not constitute evidence. There was no way for him to send data to any of the safety critical systems.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> For a company that is so well funded and familiar with paranoid engineering, how is it that something as basic as data integrity (offline backups) isn't implemented?

<comment><USER13> Lots of F500 companies raid the infrastructure budget to fund application development because it drives revenue. It's rare to find one that funds infrastructure the way a software company would.

Crap like 10+ year old servers, operating systems, etc, is rampant.

Similar for desktops. There's pressure to hold back on Windows version upgrades because _" we can't divert app team resources to test if the app runs okay on that..."_ Or just plain raiding the refresh budget altogether. Or, _" the app/business team needs admin logins because reasons, so back off infrastructure guy"_.

Fortunately, cloud seems to be a good solution to the mess. You're forced to deal with (at least some basic) tech debt.

<comment><USER8> I think the assessment of the risks needs to be looked at again. It may have made sense at one time to be conservative with system updates and do a lot of testing before rolling them out. In earlier days, OS updates were typically not security patches but new versions or major service packs. Behavior and APIs changed. But these days, what's worse: Dealing with some production issues due to an OS security update (really rather unlikely, and the patch infrastructure supports rolling back), or having your entire company taken offline by malware like WannaCry?

<comment><USER14> Huh? The risks are way worse than they once were. Microsoft ships a lot more broken shit than they did in the past, plus everything is bundled in such a way that it's easy to reinflict wounds.

Wormable stuff like Wanacry is usually identified and can be addressed as an emergency. Otherwise, rolling out patches in production quicker than 30-60 days is just unwise in a big or complex environment.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> They deserve it, for:

1) having mission critical systems on the internet and

2) not patching mission critical systems for vulnerabilities that have been (extremely) public for nearly a year now

<comment><USER16> Indeed. Which department of 'management level' deserves this is another question, but somewhere, someone (probably C-level) decided that it wasn't important enough and now got bit by it.

I'm pretty sure someone else will get the blame for it, for about 6 months 'improvements' will be made, and next year, we're going to see something like this just repeat itself.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> And they said I was crazy when I was warning about ransomware for self-driving cars (especially given carmakers mostly continue to ignore the software security issues). Their time will come.

<comment><USER18> To be fair, self-driving cars don't need any help in endangering people's lives. At this point Uber is basically malware in company form. Or maybe that's Facebook.

<comment><USER10> No need for "or" \- there's space for more than one malignant company form...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Wow, late bloomers :)</comment>


The first independent tests of the EmDrive suggest a mundane explanation (2018) - <AUTHOR> https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/05/nasa-emdrive-impossible-physics-independent-tests-magnetic-space-science/ <comment><USER2> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17096175](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17096175)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17137995](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17137995)</comment>


U.S. tech inventors are highly clustered because of idea spillover - <AUTHOR> https://www.citylab.com/life/2019/10/technology-inventions-where-work-patents-agglomeration-data/599089/ <comment><USER2> I'm very suspicious of these conclusions based on the dataset. Equating number of patents with "productivity" is questionable and leads to a lot of confounders. For example, most patents are filed by large companies like IBM, which filed 2,000 patents on cloud computing in 2018 alone.

Large companies like IBM value patents more than startups and have dedicated teams that help employees make tons of filings. I would bet this is part of why NY-NJ-PA, where IBM is headquartered, does better than you'd expect. And, Boston, which has no very large patent filers, does worse than you'd expect.

The 12% gain in "productivity" from moving maybe more to do with inventors joining companies that encourage them to file more patents than any real increase in their output.

<comment><USER3> I dont recall if it was an official policy or more of a guideline, but when I interned at IBM in college if you had less than ~15 patents to your name you'd never be promoted to manager.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I am shocked by how low Boston ranks and how well Austin does (note: I have worked on both but live and prefer it in the Bay Area). I know patents are being used as a proxy so are an imperfect standard but Austin isn't a huge place and Boston really is a powerhouse.

I'm also surprised, though less so, by NY's ranking -- but it's a huge diverse economy, plus has a lot of lawyers :-).

<comment><USER5> Austin is the 11th largest city in the US, now (quite a bit larger than Boston, for example). That's kinda big.

<comment><USER6> That's just not true.

Austin Metro is 2.17M people, Boston Metro is 4.88M. Boston is also part of the broader "Bos-Wash" chain of 50 Million people, while Texas has about 29 Million people.

Sources:

1\. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Austin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Austin)

2\. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Boston](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Boston)

3\. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_megalopolis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_megalopolis)

4\. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas)

Disclaimer: I'm from Austin. My friends and family really think it's a big deal... but, it's only a medium deal :)

<comment><USER6> Related: if you want to see how different urban areas stack up, this is the best list to use: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_urban_ar...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_urban_areas)

By that list Boston is #10 and Austin is #37 in the US, which matches how different the two cities "feel" in my experience as well.

<comment><USER7> Those numbers are from 2010. Austin has grown a tremendous amount since 2010.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Going by patents is kind of a weird metric, when so many technology patents are such complete garbage. And what is not garbage is almost entirely corporate-driven.

It's not like people are inventing things in their back sheds and filing patents like they were 100 years ago.

<comment><USER9> To be fair, the idea of patenting a lot of what we call "tech" these days is probably clustered for the same idea: most people wouldn't think of patenting software unless they're at or around companies that glorify patent recipients and incentivizing more. Still "idea spillover". But for real, that's probably as close as they can get to studying this with easily obtainable, easily quantifiable data.

<comment><USER10> > that's probably as close as they can get to studying this with easily > obtainable, easily quantifiable data

The abstract (I didn't try scihub, but the paper isn't available from his berkeley page either) worryingly blurs "inventors", patent creation, and "[US] macroeconomic benefits".

Approaches to patents vary _greatly_ with industry and business plan. Both of which vary with region. And their correspondence to national benefit is even more diverse.

Number of researchers might serve as a useful cross-check. BLS Occupational Employment Statistics has categories like "Medical Scientists".

But what portion of software innovation is done by "Computer and Information Research Scientists"? What portion is patented? One might easily imagine innovators shifting from dispersed general industry, to concentrated regions and companies emphasizing patents, with an associated increase in patent productivity, but net innovation and economic loss.

Number of IP lawyers per million population needs a lot of correction to serve as a proxy for the economic benefits of innovation.

At a time when we're in a big trade war, in no small part from trying to impose our industrial policy, I wonder if software engineering as a profession is fulfilling an obligation to clearly communicate its experience of just how sensitive impacts are to all the knobs and dials of patent law and policy, and how easily it goes severely net negative. When I encounter economists assuming a general connection between patents and societal innovation across very dissimilar industries, I wonder which of us is failing the other.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Will the existing Bay Area juggernaut ever claw north to Sacramento or south to Monterey, then San Luis Obispo, I wonder.

<comment><USER12> that could happen with the right investments in public transport infrastructure...

so... no.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I'd like to see this analysis for just independent inventors. From my experience, what really drives patent production is being employed by companies that prioritize patent production... and the places where these industries are concentrated will tend to dominate patent production by volume.

</comment><comment><USER14> I can't believe the census bureau thinks Bogalusa is part of the New Orleans metro area. The last anyone here heard about them was either the state taking over their finances or water system or that scandal where some reasonably ranking cop had KKK robes in his barn.

</comment><comment><USER15> It sure feels like they are implying causation where we just really see correlation.

</comment><comment><USER11> Wondering why the Research Triangle isn't on this list.</comment>


Nike fires majority of FuelBand team, will stop making wearable hardware - <AUTHOR> http://www.cnet.com/news/nike-fires-fuelband-engineers-will-stop-making-wearable-hardware/ <comment><USER2> Even more amazing is that it was first reported on Secret a week ago: [https://www.secret.ly/p/uxaztevdcicghcabkkczuzkpkz](https://www.secret.ly/p/uxaztevdcicghcabkkczuzkpkz)

<comment><USER3> So funny. I was at a conference just two weeks ago where RGA was talking about their success with the Nike FuelBand. In reality, nobody used it and the whole team got fired. Brilliant.

<comment><USER4> The Fuelband is always lauded by the whole advertising / digital creative agency business as proof they can move beyond campaign work and actually make product. Which they all desperately want to do, but their business model is poorly set up for.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> It's surprising to see it so early, but they probably see the writing on the wall. Once Android Wear and Apple wearables start rolling out, it's going to be a slaughter out there.

Apple and Nike teaming up for the iWatch launch is probably a safe bet now too.

<comment><USER6> How certain is everyone that Apple will launch a wearable? I just don't see it personally.

<comment><USER7> It's certain, they're working on it, and have hired some of the best people in the world for things like skin sensors (blood glucose, etc).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Update: Nike confirmed a small number of layoffs but denies FuelBand shutdown, according to re/code:

      "The Nike+ FuelBand SE remains an important part of our
      business," the company said in a statement emailed to
      Re/code. "We will continue to improve the Nike+ FuelBand App,
      launch new METALUXE colors, and we will sell and support the
      Nike+ FuelBand SE for the foreseeable future."

[http://recode.net/2014/04/18/nike-denies-fuelband- shutdown-b...](http://recode.net/2014/04/18/nike-denies-fuelband-shutdown-but- layoffs-could-reveal-new-cracks-in-wearables-market/)

<comment><USER9> All: should we change the url of the post to this one? It's not clear which is better.

Edit: there are arguments on both sides. Since the Cnet article seems to be the original source, let's stick with it.

<comment><USER10> I would say yes. Fixing misinformation (even honest misinformation) on the front page is a good thing.

<comment><USER11> i don't think it's clear that there's any misinformation in the cnet article. Nike is officially denying killing the product, but they aren't denying that they've laid off the majority of their hardware team.

<comment><USER10> It says they will stop making wearable hardware in the title, which Nike is flatly denying.

<comment><USER12> not really. They said they will continue to sell the current device and support it with software. They make no claims to possibly making any new hardware as far as I could see.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Is it just me, or does anyone else think the term "fired" is improper in cases like this? I think the more appropriate term for when a company is changing direction, leaving a market, etc. is "laid-off". To me, "fired" denotes wrongdoing on the part of the employee. Of course, when you're trying to get page-views, Fired is likely to get more readers at the expense of the terminated employees.

<comment><USER14> It's at the expense of credibility, but it's CNet. These terms have actual meanings, "laid off" when the position is being eliminated, "fired" when it's not.

<comment><USER15> Having a US head-office I'm frequently bemused / confused as to why companies in that country so readily lay-off the staff of canceled projects, instead of redeploying them internally to fill other vacancies.

Particularly in large corps there's nearly always some other division crying- out for staff with hands-on knowledge of their industry and product, instead of spending $50,000 to hire someone out of college and then train them.

<comment><USER16> Because American companies don't do any training.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> These gadgets might make a nice 'halo' product for a big Nike Town store, however, from a general retail perspective these fairly standalone electronic gadgets are a pain to stock, sell and process when they come back as returns.

They just don't sell the units to justify the floor space or the capital for the stock. Plus there is always someone online that can sell them cheaper without the hassle of a customer cluttering the shop for an hour whilst they evaluate the purchase. Staff are not knowledgeable on such items and, in the time that one gadget is sold, that member of staff could help untold other customers on products that are core business.

I am sure that Nike could take on all comers with 'first mover advantage' with wearable gadgets. They could even do a Facebook and buy out the likes of 'strava'. However, these gadgets don't sell too well through the normal retail channels that Nike rely on for most of their sales.

</comment><comment><USER18> I'm surprised by this. To me, it makes a lot of sense that Nike, as a fitness company, produces a wearable device for exercising.

It must be a failure of my imagination, but I don't see a smart watch (in the next couple years) being both attractive to the general consumer _and_ solving the same problems as the FuelBand does. That's partly because I can't imagine what features would make me want to buy an iWatch. So I expect that Nike's going to be forced to compromise functionality to fit the limited capabilities of general-purpose devices.

For example, Craig's proposed iRing doesn't even mention tracking motion activity: [http://furbo.org/2014/03/13/wearing- apple/](http://furbo.org/2014/03/13/wearing-apple/)

Also, maybe it's the specific app I use, but using the M7 kills battery life on my 5S.

<comment><USER19> > I'm surprised by this. To me, it makes a lot of sense that Nike, as a > fitness company, produces a wearable device for exercising.

I'm not surprised -- they've been pouring money into marketing, and yet not coming within a mile of the leader (FitBit) in the activity tracker market.

> It must be a failure of my imagination, but I don't see a smart watch (in > the next couple years) being both attractive to the general consumer and > solving the same problems as the FuelBand does.

They aren't getting out because of the possibility of future smartwatches, they are getting out because they are getting killed by what's on the market and popular _now_.

<comment><USER18> Does that jive with their stated plan to do software only? Does the FitBit hardware have an open API that Nike could integrate with?

Or are they stepping back and waiting for Google, Samsung, Apple, etc, to make a successful hardware device? Whether that's things like the M7 in smartphones or an extra device.

<comment><USER19> > Does the FitBit hardware have an open API that Nike could integrate with?

Yes: [http://dev.fitbit.com/](http://dev.fitbit.com/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Hmm, so nobody has brought up the possibility of some sort of Apple + Nike collusion (for lack of a better word) here?

Cook sits on the Nike board. Who's to say he didn't let the folks at Nike in on what Apple were working on and the two companies decided to make some sort of deal seeing as the two products would have areas of overlap.

I can see a scenario where Nike features prominently as a partner for Apple's wearable products.

<comment><USER21> It's possible that there won't be an Apple iWatch as such, but instead a platform like Google Wear for others to develop on. But such a thing is hard to keep secret once you've told a dozen partners about it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Not a fortuneteller but my guess is they're giving up way too early. One of the few mass-market, non-tech companies that actually had a shot in wearables.

<comment> k-mcgrady With the iPhone having the M7 built-in is there any need for the Nike FuelBand? I find data from the M7 to be quite accurate. Seems like they can just create the software and let Apple (and eventually Android device makers) build the hardware.

<comment><USER23> The iPhone's still a heavy, bulky, expensive and fragile thing to take with you to the gym or out running, as are other smartphones. The screen is also not easy to interact with while you're exercising seriously. However, smartwatches or smartglasses with 5s-level-or-better motion sensing and the capacity to run apps independently of a smartphone do have to the potential to make dedicated fitness trackers mostly obsolete, though expense and fragility will still be concerns.

EDIT: This Gruber reaction [http://www.cnet.com/news/nike-fires-fuelband- engineers-will-...](http://www.cnet.com/news/nike-fires-fuelband-engineers- will-stop-making-wearable-hardware/) heightens my suspicion that this is an early omen of an Apple smartwatch launch.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Nike Denies FuelBand Shutdown, but Layoffs Could Reveal New Cracks in Wearables Market

[http://recode.net/2014/04/18/nike-denies-fuelband- shutdown-b...](http://recode.net/2014/04/18/nike-denies-fuelband-shutdown-but- layoffs-could-reveal-new-cracks-in-wearables-market/)

</comment><comment><USER25> Not sure I'm totally convinced of this software only argument.

I think of Nike as a brand that stands for high performance equipment.

Shoes, T-shirts, Golf Clubs, etc.

The software they have built around Nike+ has always felt second rate compared to software focused companies like Runkeeper.

I enjoyed my Nike Fuel band and was always hoping to see more innovation on this front from them.

I suppose they had to pick one or the other. This move allows them to have a fitbit software integration which will be big.

I would have stuck with high performance health monitoring hardware and integrated with every software vendor.

</comment><comment><USER26> I'm seeing this from the bottom up in other areas. The general question being asked is "Isn't this actually just an app? Do we really need the device too?" And very often the answer is it's just an app.

The Google coming in factor is not to be underestimated, however, what appears to be going on there is Google effectively ensuring no one (except Apple) gets to make money on wearable hardware. Apple will steal the premium sector, again, (mix of iOS compatibility, prestige branding and likely a couple of out there features) but because Google seem to view it as a way to attach Google Now to your wrist first and potentially profitable app ecosystem very distant second they'll drive the price of the hardware down to the point Nike's decision here looks very wise indeed.

The ad/search business is to Google what Windows is to Microsoft, and in order to create new profit centres they really need to forget it.

<comment><USER27> You're reasoning is completely off. Google's Android wearables ensures nobody makes money on wearable OS i.e. _software_. Google has actually opened the door for companies to now make money on the wearables hardware since the software is standard. While Google launched wearable by focusing on the Now integration, there are still hints that fitness apps will be there at launch of the smartwatches. This is the first time Google and Apple are launching in a new category at the same time, it's a bit premature to conclude that Apple will capture the high-end (although they do have iOS customer captive in their ecosystem)

Nike doesn't figure into this at all. The fuelband never even worked with Android devices (Tim Cook holding a spot on the Nike board for the past 9 years might do something with that). Mike's play is to get out of the wristband business before Apple jumps in while keeping their Nike+ integration with Apple via software and SHOES (Nike's real business) as done previously. However if this new upcoming Nike+ API can be used by Android devices it would represent the first real shift in Nike's strategy

<comment><USER28> Honestly, Google does prevent almost anyone from making money off the hardware as well. I was at an Android OEM when Google first started sourcing their own Nexus line at cut throat prices and Android hardware projects were definitely canceled because we just couldn't compete with Google. Samsung is about the only one that can since they have massive economic advantages due to making most of their own parts. Other Android OEMs make very little numbers or profit.

<comment><USER29> Hardly any consumers know about the Nexus line. I'd say that's the last thing an Android OEM should be worried about. The biggest problem is consumer awareness (the same problem the Nexus line faces), especially when the carriers are in control, like in the US.'

Unfortunately, using Samsung's approach of overwhelming the public conscious with advertising isn't feasible for a lot of smaller OEMs, who don't have the sort of capital necessary to do that. However, signs of hope are developing, if you take an ultra-lean approach to producing and selling the phone[0].

0: [http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/01/moto-g- boo...](http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/01/moto-g-boosts- motorola-mobile-smartphone-sales)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> My wife finds the FuelBand so ugly she almost finds it offensive. She's a pretty normal woman, and I'm not suggesting all women feel that way, but it bears reminding that anything worn on a wrist is actually a fashion accessory for a lot of people.

</comment><comment><USER31> Shame too, as it was a nice piece of hardware.

You can see a great teardown and explanation of the internals from mike at mikeselectricstuff here: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xdajSS_cOU](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xdajSS_cOU)

</comment><comment><USER32> Interesting timing isn't it, Apple is rumoured to be making a wearables push and Nike has a cosy relationship there. Maybe they've realised they don't need to make the hardware to further their aims.

Or, maybe Nike want to refine their product base and the Fuelband isn't a big enough seller to justify the ongoing cost. I think the wearables market is some what saturated at the moment and to stand out from the crowd Nike would need to make a large push. Shame as I liked their purposefully chunky aesthetics.

</comment><comment><USER33> _stop making wearable hardware_

...including shoes?

</comment><comment><USER34> Tim Cook is on Nikes board...

<comment><USER22> Where's Carl Icahn when you need him?

<comment><USER35> "Help us Carl Icahn, you're our only hope." has a nice ring to it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> I went to a meetup this week where the senior director of this program spoke. It was a little surprising to see that his bio had changed from his Nike affiliation to "innovator at large" when I got to the event, but I didn't think too much of it at the time.

</comment><comment><USER37> I'm guessing Nike isn't abandoning the FuelBand (or Nike+), just their in- house hardware team. Wristbands are commodities now, so someone in management might have decided to outsource.

</comment><comment><USER38> I returned my FuelBand once Nike broke their promise of developing an Android app. It seems like there was a lot of confusion on the team.

</comment><comment><USER39> I liked the FuelBand, but never bought one. Hopefully Nike either partners with Apple or they make an App.

<comment><USER40> Me too.

I've yet to find a wearable device I can take to the gym and extract the data from myself. Most of them use online sites and proprietry/undocumented storage formats.

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> Damn these people for executing the "vision" of some inept executive.

</comment><comment><USER42> Total market / large number of players = unsustainable business.

<comment><USER43> Or maybe the first wave of the next set of things becoming smart. $12 phone [http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=3040](http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=3040) means maybe we get shoe-phones after all.

</comment></comment><comment><USER44> This is my biggest nightmare. Consumer choice being limited due to corporate politics and killing innovation for bottom line because of old school corporate thinking.

Imagine working on a product, getting bought out, and seeing your hard work being dumped in the garbage because that was already their plan. Sure, you might have millions, but did you really make a change in the world? I think it would be an empty experience.</comment>


Distilling knowledge from neural networks to build smaller and faster models - <AUTHOR> https://blog.floydhub.com/knowledge-distillation/ <comment><USER2> In case might help anyone, found that the graphics on this TDS piece were very helpful for intuiting the principles of teacher / student distillation discussed in the link. [https://towardsdatascience.com/knowledge-distillation- simpli...](https://towardsdatascience.com/knowledge-distillation-simplified- dd4973dbc764)

</comment><comment><USER3> Could a researcher chime in: is it possible that smaller models have a higher potential for mapping activations to abstractions that are present in our own language understanding and if so, could we use these makings to make our models more transparent and explainable?

<comment><USER4> Distillation would not meaningfully help make a model more transparent or explainable.

I imagine you're thinking about bottle necking on a really tight latent space. This would require a different architecture which would be more difficult to train and would probably suffer in accuracy.

Often it's better to re-frame the training as a multi-targeted problem with an explanation component.

<comment><USER5> I'm curious about the "explanation component" approach you've hinted at... are their any publications you can point to with this approach? If not, can you maybe describe it groso modo?

<comment><USER6> Say you want a model that takes in a picture of a person and tells you what emotion they are feeling - sad/happy/disgusted/whatever.

But you also want to know why it classifies a person as sad/happy/etc.

Then you make the model have 2 outputs. The first is just a classification of the emotion as you'd have normally. While the second is which parts of the image contributed most to the classification - e.g. a heatmap over a smiling mouth in one case or over the squinted eyes in another.

You can do this with pretty much anything.

<comment><USER7> Could you give a link to a paper?

I could take a unet and plug a classifier to it hmm. I tried something like that before but it did not work that well. Maybe what I did sucked and there is a better way

<comment><USER8> [https://jacobgil.github.io/deeplearning/class-activation- map...](https://jacobgil.github.io/deeplearning/class-activation-maps)

Not sure how that would work with a segmentation algorithm like Unet though. It makes more sense in showing where in an image that the network was activated to give the image a label. AFAIK Unet gives ever pixel a label so I don't see how you could do what the parent describes.

<comment><USER7> That is activation mapping. I understood that what he was suggesting is using another objective that is optimized to define why network decided what it did. But need loss function for that

For let's say identifying a car we could come up with a labeled dataset that not only has classes but also different parts of the car labeled that we think differentiate car from a motorcycle or a whatever. Then model has to output both class and also segmentation or bounding boxes of the parts

Then we combine both losses from these outputs and train.

I tried using unet by attaching layers to it in different ways to interpret the segmentation. I could not get it to work well though

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Why a BiLSTM instead of just a smaller Transformer?

<comment><AUTHOR> That is definitely the next thing I would try :) mostly the reason why I started with a BiLSTM is that it's much easier to implement/debug, also afaik the time complexity of RNNs with respect to the sequence length is O(N) but it's O(N^2) for attentional models like a Transformer. Although it probably doesn't matter much on the scale of the SST-2 dataset.

<comment><USER4> Ah, you're the author. I missed that. Cool work by the way.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Are distilled models as effective for generalizing? Can they be pretrained as effectively as Bert for other tasks?</comment>


France Launches French Tech Ticket, a Startup Visa for Foreign Entrepreneurs - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/29/france-launches-french-tech-ticket-a-startup-visa-for-foreign-entrepreneurs/ <comment><USER2> As an entrepreneur in Europe I avoid France at all cost, even when it is a big market for us, we develop for them outside.

Great place to live, bad place for working. Worse if the people that decide on your visas and conditions are Communist people. Central planning(communism) is the opposite of startups.

In the US people(the culture and society) admire people that makes money, in my opinion too much. When Americans talk about people they say things like "he is worth X thousands dollars", implying that people is worth the money they have in the bank.

In France it is the polar opposite, the culture hates successful people, envy is endemic and taxes are on the roof, and will only grow higher when the German money stops flowing.

France is one of the natural wealthiest countries I have ever lived, but French people are not very efficient at exploiting it. They believe in eternal rights, but not on duties.

The same way than when you live in China you feel the Cultural revolution, in France you feel the French Revolution at every corner.

</comment><comment><USER3> Having lived in France for four years trying to start a company, I can say, without question, this would be the worst idea for anyone who is serious about starting a company.

Most french LEAVE france because of how byzantine and insane the laws are towards companies (let alone startups).

<comment><USER4> Can you elaborate on this? I had this idea lingering in the back of my head to move to France for 3-6 months to build out my concept/prototype and then move back to the US when I am ready to leave the "pre-revenue" stage of the startup.

<comment><USER3> if your plan is to just vacation in France for 6 months and hack on a prototype, do it. But that probably applies to anywhere in the world.

If you want to set a business up and live in France forreals, then don't do that, and read below.

tl;dr - france is not a culture celebrated for its high risk profile. it celebrates its past and culture, things it wishes to preserve. everything else suffers because of this.

Moving from US to France all of your costs are going to go up. It's really hard to get French people to adopt the latest trends. Historically things are very conservative with the benefit of the doubt erring on the side of the status quo.

Any legal, gov't, or bureaucratic issues you think you have in the US, you can multiply by 20 if you set up in france.

The whole taxation system in France was never designed to deal with risk-heavy entreprises. If you employ someone, you must budget for paid vacation. To employ them at all, you need to draft either a CDI (Contract Duration Indeterminée)which means basically that you're employing them for life, or CDD (Contract Duration Determiné) which means you employ them on short term contract only. So either you marry them or you can't promise them much upside.

<comment><USER5> Serious questions: are not these types of contract a standard in almost any west-EU/north-EU country?

<comment><USER3> I dunno about anywhere else, but in America these are definitely not standard. In CA most tech employees are at-will.

<comment><USER5> Yeah, you have to consider in west Europe is valued very high by everyone the "stability of work" because it allows you, as a employee, to live with less stress and with more chances to make long-term investments (family, children, buying an house, etc) and so keeping the economy and welfare up and stable.

Basically US is very employey/corporation-centric, while EU puts a lot more importance on employees (that are the majority of people by the way)

<comment><USER3> Yep, I don't disagree with this. I don't know what the answer is. My dream is some mix of US risk taking coupled withe European humanism... but that got us the UK and that's not my idea of a good time either.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I can't really believe this is a serious idea. Or maybe it is a serious idea from people who have no idea how startups work.

As one of the other commenters said, the primary reason I wouldn't start a company in France is the "Byzantine and insane laws" that you have to deal with. For starters, how about all of the employment laws that make it difficult to fire poor performing employees.

But beyond that, look at the tax rates. As someone who has been through starting a company before, it's just not worth it without the chance of a good return in the future. A quick internet search reveals that as a non-French citizen, I would be liable for around 56% in taxes if my company ever exited. Compare that with the qualified small business rate of about 15% here in the states...

It's almost offensive to me that the French government thinks that the only thing standing between a successful tech scene and where they are now is the ability to get a visa and some seed capital. Hubris much?

<comment><USER7> Regarding taxes, you're comparing two _very_ different things. The 15% you're talking about is, as you said, qualified small business rate, which means you have [..] to hold it for more than 5 years. The 56% you're talking about in France is an over simplified number. My company just got acquired (i'm a co- founder), and I can guarantee you I got a better tax deal in France than you will ever get in the US.

I'm not even going to get into the laws debate, but just keep in mind, just like the taxes, it's not at all how you think it is :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> After the dailymotion debacle France would not be top of my list if I considered doing a start-up.

[http://venturebeat.com/2013/04/30/sacrebleu-french-pride- kil...](http://venturebeat.com/2013/04/30/sacrebleu-french-pride-kills-yahoo- dailymotion-deal/)

</comment><comment><USER9> Not sure how to feel about this considering the recent Uber events in France. (Uber France Leaders Arrested For Running Illegal Taxi Company / [http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/06/two-uber- executiv...](http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/06/two-uber-executives- in-france-detained-for-questioning/))

As an entrepreneur, that is not enticing to me.

<comment><USER10> There are, of course, other lines of businesses for start-ups to get into.

It is probably true that if you're looking to disrupt how employment markets function, France is probably not a great place to focus your initial efforts. But there are lots of ways to make money outside of that.

<comment><USER11> Lots of ways to make money without breaking the law.

<comment><USER12> That's only true until your business threatens a competitor with more political influence... in countries where the laws are written that way. (The USA counts as such a country, though we don't do it as much as france- look at how much protection the cable and wireless companies have.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> _They need to work on a startup, speak English and stay at least six months in France._

Interesting. I expected _speak French or English._.

<comment><USER14> Think about it this way. Expecting foreigners to speak French may be a bigger hurdle to attract interest compared to expecting foreigners to speak English which is spoken the most in the world.

Yes french could still be mentioned but it may not make much difference.

<comment><USER13> It would make the difference to a small group of people who speak French fluently but little to no English, but that is not what I find interesting. I find interesting that France, notorious for protecting its own language, will put a foreign language above it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I wish they would decouple the money from the visa; so they can hand out more visas. I would be interested to live some time in France while I bootstrap a business. I don't need money from the government, actually I will bring my own...that's why countries should be more lenient with visas for entrepreneurs

</comment><comment><USER16> This program might appeal to digital nomads. It is a good way to work on your projects for 6 months in a country and then move on to someplace else. I am guessing the program may have some restrictions in this aspect. Nevertheless, interesting program to attract entrepreneurship if conditions are not onerous.

</comment><comment><USER17> Interesting, the same Startup Visa program for Italy got the same negative reaction[1]. I wonder which European country has the best conditions to start the new high-risk Internet company? Finland? Poland?

1\. [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8890952](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8890952)

<comment><USER8> It very much depends on where you are coming from. If you're from the USA or Canada the UK would be your first choice, Germany your second.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Is there anything similar in U.S.A ?

<comment><USER19> No, but Canada has one: [http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/start- up/](http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/start-up/)

<comment><USER20> Awesome! I didn't realize Canada had a startup visa!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> after seeing the anti-Uber protests, why would anyone in their right minds go do a startup in France?

<comment><USER22> Because there is very good tech talent with much less competition and lower costs than in the US - in part because schools are mostly free.

<comment><USER23> Lower competition - my favorite lie that I hear told in every EU country. EU is not lower competition from the entrepreneur's perspective. Anywhere in the EU is vastly higher competition.

\- Unless you're doing a hyper-local product, you're competing on the global scale.

\- The ratio of active investors versus serious entrepreneurs is far, far worse in France than in Silicon Valley.

\- Getting good people in France to join your startup is very easy. Getting the absolute best people in the world, that's tough. Not because they don't exist in France. It's because the absolute best people want to leave France. Top talent wants to move to the #1 best place in the world for their industry, no less.

The lifecycle of a (non-lifestyle) startup anywhere in the EU is far harder than it is in Silicon valley, at every stage.

If the government continues to add serious benefits, and many other changes happen though, the balance could maybe start to shift.

<comment><USER13> _It 's because the absolute best people want to leave France._

 _Top talent wants to move to the #1 best place in the world for their industry, no less._

Are those definitions or observations?</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Client did not pay? - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/kleampa/not-paid <comment><USER2> Is it me or this kind of "Easter eggs" are completely unprofessional? If you have clients then should have basic contracts, agreements, etc. Isn't this what courts are for?

<comment><USER3> With cars having increased connectivity, I wonder how much drama it would cause if the radio stopped working, fuel efficiency started going down, etc, when you were late on a car payment.

<comment><USER4> Reminds me of a Barnaby Jack Defcon talk about medical implants, and the idea that they could stop functioning properly if you miss your payments.

I'll try and find it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Does stuff like this actually work? Never done anything like this before. Seems very unprofessional.

Get a 1/2 deposit upfront. This clears out most of the scrubs. Only commit your time when the client has committed money.

<comment><USER6> 1/2 or 1/3 deposit upfront and then other payments of maybe 10-20% when certain milestones are completed.

And never start work without a contract which has been reviewed by a lawyer and that clearly states payment terms and repercussions for non-payment.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> What you really need is some kind of Angular/Webpack plugin that add obfuscated code to call out to some 3rd-party escrow/broker service to check if a flag has been raised and if so refuse to load. If you only had access to the final bundled code it might be hard to find what part to rip out (think like the "Preview" or "Sample" slightly opaque text on images. Then you could deliver the final product sans "DRM" after payment.

I think this could be thwarted with a CSP policy? Not really sure.

</comment><comment><USER8> Bonus points to load and inject all the HTML markup via ajax from a server you control, so even if they pay some kid to remove the opacity you can still time-bomb the site underneath them.

I did this once for a client that didn't pay (15 years ago when I was practically still a kid). It did not go well and I still did not get paid, but at least it was kind of fun.

<comment><USER3> Then they really wouldn't own the site, and have an even better case for not paying you.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Original here which was on HN 2 years ago: [https://github.com/andreapaiola/F-D-/blob/master/fade.js](https://github.com/andreapaiola/F-D-/blob/master/fade.js)

</comment><comment><USER10> Really easy to rip this out. Some of the greensock demo libraries were designed to break except on certain domains, I remember I thought those were pretty clever. Also if the code is server-side rendered and you withhold the source it makes it even harder.

</comment><comment><USER11> everytime your client makes a payment, a certain portion of your code becomes local rather than served, from your infrastructure, when the payments are finished, all the code segments will be local and integral to the clients copy. if the client refuses to pay they no longer have server access.

in other words, they continue to recieve updates if they continue to pay.

</comment><comment><USER12> just schedule the cron job: -rm -rf /

</comment><comment><USER13> Haha, Genius :p</comment>


Ask HN: Why do most Hack/Security websites have a black background? - <AUTHOR> Does this have to do with the dark side. Even  thogh some of this websites are legal and have nothing to do with black hat, they still use a black backgrough. I've seen this since the 90's and always wondered why? <comment><USER2> Because it looks "cool".</comment>


The Encryption Meltdown - <AUTHOR> http://on.wsj.com/1ZuzJHA <comment><AUTHOR> I don't often agree with the WSJ, but they got this one right. FBI director James Comey is a loose cannon and needs to go.</comment>


Show HN: Are you an old school demoscene programmers? Come take a look - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/victorqribeiro/radio <comment><AUTHOR> I just added WebGL support.</comment>