I'm burning out and I can't tell anyone - <AUTHOR> I'm the cofounder of a startup that really needs me right now. I suspect I may be burning out or have already burnt out.  Despite things going relatively well, I'm somewhat depressed all the time, easily irritable, resentful of my cofounder and constantly think to myself that I need a break.
My work isn't really getting affected (yet?). I've taken half days off before, but they weren't enough.
Anyone had the same problem? What did you do about it and what happened afterwards? Thanks. <comment><USER3> Talk to your co-founder and tell him that your startup's current schedule is unsustainable. Depression, irritability, and resentment are not positive qualities in producing working code or customer engagement. Make such changes to your work environment as are required like the responsible adults you are.

Personal life hacks:

1) All the folks telling you that diet and exercise will magically make things better are _actually right_ in micro scale. (You can't pushup your way out of being a salaryman but it is very hard to not get a QOL boost from reguar exercise.) Blew my mind to experience this since I had always assumed it was social signaling.

2) Your startup will _always_ send signals that it really needs you. Consider making a commitment to maintaining family/friendship/church/whatever ties so that you can maintain perspective on how much the bat signal going off really matters.

3) You'll tend to end up like the folks you hang around with. If you steep yourself 100% in startup culture, you'll tend to pick up its cultural pathologies. I mean, do your five closest friends all overwork? That might be why seeing half days off as a luxury item became your new normal. Consider reconnecting with old friends or broadening your social circle.

<comment><USER4> #3 is such a biggie. I was a Marine for 10 years, steeped in those rich, deeply ingrained cultural pathologies. It wasn't until I started making good friends outside of that culture that I realized how insane some of my life habits really were. It just so happened my new friends were programmers.

<comment><USER5> That's interesting. Give some examples of Marine Corps cultural pathologies.

<comment><USER4> Honestly there's almost too many to name.

edit: Ok, well prominently there's the "zero defect mentality" that was supposedly eradicated from the military in the past 20 or 30 years but is still very much present. Obviously this varies from command to command, but... anyway that's probably more big-picture than you're thinking of.

One small way (small as in every day life for people not big Marine Corps issues) is this notion I'd guess I'd describe as "maximal accountability" for your actions. Which is good up to a point but when coupled with the zero- defect thing, tthen suddenly you're living a life where there's no such thing as "not a big deal."

This also translates into being treated like a child when you're not in a combat zone, with curfews, checking in, signing in and out on your own personal time, and so forth. I get why it happens but as a 30-year-old guy when I got out, I was getting a little too old to be THAT accountable to someone else.

Ironically, when it came to my professional life as a Marine (all easily verifiable btw if you google my name in case you're wondering if I'm another poser) there was no simpler time than being in Iraq or afloat. Bullshit levels were at a minimum because there were real things to accomplish. That's coincidentally why I love being a programmer. :)

<comment><USER6> From an outside observer it seems that "zero defect mentality" has a negative influence on reporting and treatment for PTSD.

<comment><USER4> Yeah, of course it does.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Here's the incident (and litmus test from my cofounder) that permanently changed my workaholic thinking:

cofounder: Hey Ed, it's 6:30. Finish up. Let's go next door and get a beer.

edw519: No, I have to finish <Task X>.

cofounder: Do that later. Have a beer with me.

edw519: No, I have to finish this now.

cofounder: Have a beer with me, then do that tomorrow.

edw519: No, this has to be finished tonight.

cofounder: Then have a beer with me, and come back after the beer and finish it tonight.

edw519: No, I have to finish it first.

cofounder: If you have a beer with me and don't finish that, how will our Annual Report be different?

edw519: What?

cofounder: You heard me. If you have a beer with me and don't finish that tonight, how will our Annual Report be different?

edw519: I don't understand.

cofounder: Listen one more time and answer the fucking question! If you have a beer with me and don't finish that tonight, how will our Annual Report be different?

edw519: It won't be.

cofounder: Good. Then let's have that beer now. OK?

edw519: OK.

<comment><USER8> Incidentally and completely off-topic, unless your mental associations are as loose as mine, but I was recently rather shocked to find out that alcohol is a neurotoxin (<http://het.sagepub.com/content/26/3/251.abstract> \- just google for a mountain worth of references). This is plain scary.

<comment><USER9> Alcohol is toxic to virtually every kind of tissue in your body. They say drinking enough to feel drunk is much worse for your long-term health than a moderate dose of recreational powder cocaine. But it feels good, it's legal in most countries so you don't have to risk contaminants on the black market, and lots of people pretend it's not even a drug, so Christian fundamentalists and old people won't even look down on you!

<comment><USER10> A lot of Christian fundamentalists will look down on you. That's sort of the point of fundamentalism - extreme adherence to some principles. "No alcohol" is a pretty common one in a lot of Christian churches. Many will perform their communion with grape juice, not wine.

<comment><USER9> I was under the impression that Christian teetotalism, at least among the predecessors of present-day social conservatives in America, became much less common after the prohibition of alcohol in the U.S. ended. I guess that's not the case. But there are certainly lots of people, many but not all being religious Christians, who define alcohol as something other than a drug (as can be seen from the phrase "drugs and alcohol," which in my view is even harder to defend than "humans and animals" or "doctors and dentists," but I digress yet again...), which allows them to drink while simultaneously criticizing other recreational drug users. Oh the wonders of cognitive dissonance.

<comment><USER11> The Presbyterian church I grew up in used grape juice instead of wine. In other ways, it was fairly progressive - especially in the kind of music played/performed during services. And the teachings were fundamentalist in a completely different way than most folks think of fundy christians.

<comment><USER12> they put the "fun" in fundamentalism?

:)

<comment><USER11> Not...quite. ;)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Tell your co-founders you need a week off. They should probably take one too. Go find a beach and read a book there every day. Don't think about work.

Despite how it may _seem_ there's _no chance_ your company will die or suffer any irreparable harm in a week. Just do it.

When you come back have a discussion with your co-founders. Try to talk through (calmly and without resentment) the problems you see. Focus on finding the best _solutions_ to the problems. Don't get into arguments about the past. Everything before is water under the bridge. You will have to accept that certain things probably can't be fixed, and that's okay. Fix the things that hinder your company's ability to succeed.

Also, make sure you sleep enough every day. Don't skimp on sleep at all. Nothing will make you burn out faster than chronic sleep deprivation. Everyone can get 8+ hours of sleep per night if they make it a priority.

<comment><USER14> I would like to point out meditation. I got started with meditation because someone recommended it as cure for burnout here on HackerNews and I feel like I need to return the favor. Meditation is like taking a week off compressed into 30 minutes. The idea is that you do nothing for some time - not even think. I know it sounds wierd, but if you do it corrrectly you fell more balanced, less agitated and happier in general afterwards. You will get a fresh view on your problems and be able to put them into perspective. Just like taking a week off meditation won't fix your problems for you, but it will get you into the right mindset to do so or for accepting that curtain things can not be fixed.

There are different kinds of meditation, but I am talking about mindfulness meditation in the Buddhist tradition. When people hear the word meditation, they often associate it with some kind of new age non-sense. This kind of meditation has nothing to do with that. It also does not require to convert to Buddhism either. If you are interested I would recommend the book Mindfullness in Plain English. It's also available for free as an e-book on the internet.

<comment><USER15> I'm the kind of guy who would immediately think of meditation as some hippy activity, but i've actually found my own way that works for me which is to go and do a repetitive task that required no brain power, it helps clear my mind and makes me much more productive.

<comment><USER8> That's actually what meditation is mostly about. With a breathing meditation, you just pull your focus back to your breath every time you get distracted. That's it. All the stuff about having to close your eyes, or sit with your knees behind your head while a guru throws a bucket of water at you is just dogma. So, funnily enough, you already do meditate.

<comment><USER16> I signed up so that I could post that I strongly agree. I'm the CTO at a startup that depends way too heavily on me, and I use Tai Chi to stay sane. Tai Chi is about a lot of things but the part that keeps me sane is the meditative aspect of running my body through a "program" of movements, which requires a specific amount of attention. If your mind wanders during a Tai Chi form then you'll screw it up. And if you focus too MUCH then you'll also screw it up. So Tai Chi becomes a tool for practicing the mental state known as "flow".

Aside from it being a form of moving meditation for the mind, it helps the body, especially for a tech nerd. I began studying Tai Chi, I came near burnout partly because my body was always in a similar posture all week. I developed RSI in my neck and my shoulder from constantly tensing muscles to use a mouse or trackpad. If I worked through a weekend, or two in a row, then I might spend 20 or 30 days in a row with my shoulder tight. Tai Chi is not intense exercise, but it moves all of your muscles through their full range of motion. Simply having that "program" that I can run with my body eliminated my RSI. Even though I still have to spend way too much time at the keyboard.

<comment><USER8> Nice timing with this post. Yesterday my thumb was twitching uncontrollably for half the day due to what looks like RSI and I was wondering what my options were. Thanks for the tip!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I've had that feeling once, standing on the edge. And I know some people that burned out.

There is only one working solution. Get professional help.

If your servers crash - you ask an expert. If your car makes funny noises - you go to a garage, were there are professionals. If you have an infection - you consult an M.D.

But we tend to ignore psychological conditions and we tend to ask others (amateurs) for an opinion. But this is really nothing more than a physical illness in respect to the way it has to be treated - by an expert.

So do yourself a favor and ask your favorite search-engine for professionals, that know their stuff, when it comes to burnout. And then make an appointment. You are no good to your startup, if it crashes around you, because you crash and burn. You are no help to anybody, if your condition affects your work (and it will do that soon).

You have the responsibility for everybody, who's paycheck depends on the success of your startup - and that depends on your well being.

And: You owe it to yourself to heal.

 _just my two cents_

<comment><USER18> Throwaway here and I completely agree.

Consult your primary care physician first. They are best equipped to diagnose somatic problems and will refer you out to a psychiatrist once you check out okay physically.

I for a couple of years dealt with depression and just being damn tired all the time. I actually had to go to a few doctors before I found one that was able to help me.

Turns out I had a goddamn tumor in my parathyroid gland. I'll paraphrase a bit of Dr. House, "unsquint [sic] your eyes when you take a look at your labs"

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Greetings from a fellow hard-charger.

I've experienced burnout a number of times in personal and professional contexts and I _think_ nearing 30, I've got a pretty good handle on myself finally.

1\. You can ALWAYS and should ALWAYS talk to SOMEONE. My advice is find a great therapist. If you can't afford one, you need to find a friend, confidant, or family member that's away from the action. Talk through things and see if you can wrap your head around what's bothering you.

2\. Exercise. Seriously. Exercise helps sleeps, weight loss, anxiety, depression, add--it's a pretty awesome medication. Read "Spark" by John Ratey.

3\. Sleep. The times in my life I've felt most burnt out corresponded with awful sleeping patterns. (also see 2)

4\. Reflect. After trying to talk through things and getting your body back on track think about your work. Are you happy doing what you're doing? Do you want to do something else? (some might recommend doing this first--I wouldn't; only because in my judgment I've made decisions I regretted because I felt like I wasn't in the right place--not because I really didn't like the opportunity)

This is obviously a reader's digest version, but it took me probably 5 or 6 iterations before I could identify, prevent (or treat) my burnout.

<comment><USER20> I'm always surprised by how effective #2 can be.

I had a particularly rough Friday last week and so I decided to skip coming home in favor of a long bike ride.

I was fully expecting to go home, mope around, and fall asleep. Instead I came home - clear headed - and had a great weekend.

\--

I'd also recommend biking as a great form of exercise. Personally I don't like the gym, memberships can get kind of pricy, and for some reason I always feel uncomfortable at a gym.

Biking however gives you access to tons of free trails, it's great for your cardiovascular system (you won't get ripped biking, but you will feel _fantastic._ )

Plus being out on a scenic trail does wonders for your mental health.

Just my $0.02

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> * Workout like a horse. Best cure for depression, ever. The feeling I get when running is so liberating that it usually manages to alleviate 99% of the mood problems.

* Sleep like a rock, when you get the chance. Lack of sleep, among alcohol abuse are the most common causes of depression (at least from my personal observation)

* Hang out with friends, family as much as possible, when you get the chance. They'll constantly remind you why you work so hard. Also try to explain them why are you doing certain tradeoffs in your relationship with them.

* Swallow a boatload of Magnesium + B6. IMHO it's the biggest source of happiness one can buy for little money. It keeps your stress levels in control and your heart condition in shape.

* Meditate. I cannot stress this enough. Constantly talk to yourself when you're alone and seek thoroughly for things that cause distress in your life. Debug yourself. You _have_ to like yourself for others to like you!

* Get a girlfriend that understands you or dump the one that doesn't get it (unless you're already married)

<comment><USER22> What about getting a boyfriend?

<comment><USER8> Nothing in his post indicates homosexuality.

<comment><USER23> Nothing in their post indicates heterosexuality.

<comment><USER24> Nothing in her reply indicates she's a man.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> A lot of great advice here. Diet, exercise, sleep, minimizing alcohol, and talking to a therapist are all good advice. Burnout or depression is different for everyone though, and it can be quite complex. Let me propose another angle.

Who was it that said if you can't take a month off without telling anyone you don't really have a business? Yes, yes, I know that a startup is not yet a true business, but one of the most important things in a startup is letting go as you grow. It's very easy to convince yourself that you are absolutely essential, but in reality your job is to build a money-making machine where you are _not_ essential. One cause of burnout is being overworked because you are taking on too much personally. When you build something from the ground up, you have a lot of knowledge that others might not have, which makes it psychologically difficult to delegate, but nevertheless you have to find a way to let people make their own mistakes or your own treadmill will go faster and faster until you flare out spectacularly.

</comment><comment><USER26> I had a burnout once and continued to work for 6 months afterwards to maximize my unvested options.

The options turned out to be worth a lot, by I couldn't enjoy work for 3 years, so I am not sure continuing to work was a good decision.

In my case the reason for a burnout was personal (relations with my boss) and I suspect that the reason is always personal.

I would distill it to 2 advices: ask yourself the 5 whys about the burnout and don't continue working in this state.

<comment><USER27> I wish your comment was higher on the page. I would say you made the right choice to keep working for that extra 6 months post-burnout, because post- burnout takes minimally 2 years to recover from if you're going to recover at all. For you it took 3, I would bet those extra 6 months factored in, but I'm assuming you didn't have to worry about finances so much during those three years so it may have been a good tradeoff.

I second the advice to uncover the causes that are pushing toward burnout, because if they are left to fester then burnout becomes inevitable and post- burnout recovery takes even longer. Exercising more isn't going to fix it. A week vacation isn't going to fix it, a month vacation isn't going to fix it, because when the vacation is over nothing will have changed. The best a vacation can do is delay.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> I'm doing a startup and I've gone through some really rough times, like going for 5 days without sleep because of anxiety due to cashflow problems. My wife gave me sleeping pills (she's an M.D.) and was generally supportive. I didn't get professional help from a psy*. It passed in 2 weeks. I learned a lot from the experience and grew as a person. I have faced similar situations since and now can handle them without losing sleep.

I would recommend to take some time off and _travel_, ie. active vacationing. If you just sit around at home that's probably no good. Also, if you can't sleep, take some pills.

This may sound odd, but I found reading books from the Dalai Lama also helps to handle issues like this on an intellectual level, ie. remove the negative emotions and just figure out what's bothering you.

[http://www.amazon.com/Art-Happiness-10th-Anniversary- Handboo...](http://www.amazon.com/Art-Happiness-10th-Anniversary- Handbook/dp/1594488894)

If you're startup is doing good, then thank the Hacker News Gods and don't worry!

Best of luck! Cheers =)

PS.: if you need someone to talk to check my profile for contact info.

</comment><comment><USER29> Take time out of your day to relax or exercise or simply take a week or two off. There is no shame in that and I think the 20 hour work days have been overly glamorized. Talk to your co-founder, I'm sure the startup can manage or you will work out a solution that will. There is no shame in feeling this way, it is perfectly natural and you are not alone.

</comment><comment><USER30> Address problems now, while they're still relatively easy to tackle. Leaving them means they will build up and be harder to face.

Adjust your work life balance. This means doing things like (as have been mentioned) getting more exercise and getting better sleep. Both of these will not only help your mood, but they will make you more productive.

You need to talk to your team. Explain what's happening.

You have awareness and insight - you say "despite things going well I'm somewhat depressed" - that's good. Try some cognitive behaviour therapy techniques. A good book is "Mind over mood"; a good website is the Australian "mood gym". You could see a therapist.

Luckily this kind of stress / low mood responds excellently to interventions.

</comment><comment><USER31> Its interesting, no one told you to quit.

I'd check on sleep deprivation first. Take a week off, sleep 10 hours every night, exercise every day lightly (long walks listening to music are good), read a book. If you do all this and you still think you're at the end of your rope then you need to talk with your cofounder.

You also said it isn't affecting your work yet, but people are smart and social signals are sent without even realizing it. Its impacting your work already, in little ways, and will only get worse. Deal with this now, don't wait.

</comment><comment><USER32> As a startup founder that recently sold my company, I can totally relate. Right up till the moment I signed the final SPA I thought I would crash and go crazy. Some of the things that helped me through:

1) You are not alone. Most founders will completely sympathize with you and understand your feelings. There are a growing number of founders that are coming out with their stories. Remember pg's articles about the highs and the lows? Also check #3 of YC's survey here: <http://www.paulgraham.com/really.html>

2) It's normal. Knowing that everybody hurts. It's normal that things are hard. If you can acknowledge this one simple fact, things become much easier.

3) Openness. Talking to friends and family and being open about it. The hardest thing I found was to be vulnerable wit those I feared might abuse it (investors, spouse, co-founders). In the end it actually improved everything about my relationships with most of those (and some that it didn't - it showed their true colors). For example with my gf - for her it was an instant revelation how I was feeling and she understood why I was cranky, tired or otherwise distant. After telling her how I felt - it was like instant intimacy.

4) Time out. Taking constructive time out and feeling happy are correlated immensely. Constructive time out is not watching the newest Walking Dead, but for me an effective time out was writing lists of my thoughts down. Taking the time out meant I would feel more in control. Feeling in control directly leads to more peace and happiness.

5) Doing GTD. The other items in the list are somewhat softer but this is one that has made the biggest practical impact. I religiously follow zero inbox and for me it is a something I pride myself in too -> feel better about things and gives me the brainspace to think about the higher level stuff.

Hope that helps. Feel free to email if you want to discuss more. There's much more back story to this than can be public. ;-)

<comment><USER33> What does SPA stand for?

<comment><USER34> Share Purchase Agreement

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> Check your vitamine D levels.

I was also feeling exhausted and feared the worst, but it was all related to that. If you don't see the sun very often, you will build up a lack of Vitamine D.

</comment><comment><USER36> stop alcohol, caffeine for a while, go to the gym. talk to your cofounder, be open. work less or stop working BUT keep something doing (very important; dont do just nothing, THAT makes you more depressed, start a simple side project, learn skiing or whatever)

for every problem there is always a solution, talk to your cofounder, your view on life and your peers is toxic now but this will change very quickly

dont rush into any decision now, wait until you see clear again

</comment><comment><USER37> Get the fuck out of there. Do it with class. They'll understand. Your life and your health are far more important. Fuck the romanticism of startups, do your own thing. You're posting on here looking to hear this because you know it's true. GTFO.

I just got laid off from a douche bag boss (who knows, you may have been that boss, for all I know). He was pretty much in your shoes. I imagine in another life he'd be a good guy but his negative attitude was infectious and as a result his protégés are now professional douches and everyone around him is miserable. You're going to become THAT GUY if you don't get out.

</comment><comment><USER38> Everyone is afraid to take some vacation who have a startup. I think that this situation makes things even worst and then you think that you had enough but in the opposite site you afraid to leave for some vacation and put yourself in an endless loop. Depression is coming...

Take some days off. Soon you will understand that everyone respects your vacation. Don't afraid to pick up the phone and give solutions where it's needed while you are in the middle of your holidays. Picking up the phone will make you feel comfortable.

And always remember: Everyone respects your vaction. Don't afraid to leave for some days and relax.

<comment><USER37> He works for an asshole. He won't leave because he's being a pussy.

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> It's hard to tell from your post how much of this is about you and how much is about your startup's culture. For each case, figure out what you can do to improve the situation.

You: I completely agree with patio11's diet & exercise point. Strenuous exercise (over 30 min) releases endorphines that act as both analgesics and sedatives, and are shown to reduce depression, increase self-esteem, etc. You owe it to yourself and your startup to do this life hack no matter what the cause of your current unhappiness.

Of course, diet, sleeping well, and taking time off/socializing are also great ideas. The important thing is to take action now before it affects your life/startup any more than it has.

Your startup: If you think some of your resentment or depression is due to dysfunction in your startup, then come up with ways you can improve it. Focus on actions you can take rather than on ways other people/the group could change. I also find that people are more likely to change when asked to do something than when asked to "not do" something.

For example, if workaholism is an issue, it's easy to fall into outward/"don't do" thinking like this: telling the group that the amount of time required is making you unhappy, and that it should change. Instead, try saying something like, "I think I'll work better if I take a whole day off every two weeks and I'd love it if people joined me. My first day off will be x day, and I'm going to go hiking, let me know if you want to come." People love to join a good idea.

Good luck!

</comment><comment><USER40> Talk to your co-founder. It sounds like you're pretty sure that the problem can be resolved by taking a break. Try taking a week off. You're no good to your startup is you're burnt out and unable to work. Not taking a week off to rest now could cost you many weeks in the future.

If you take some time off to rest and you don't feel any better seek professional help. Mental health is just as important as physical health and isn't something that you should feel ashamed about.

</comment><comment><USER41> Related question from a different perspective: HOW DO I MAKE MY CEO TAKE SOME TIME OFF?

I'm not a confounder, but the CEO-founder is a friend and hired me on as soon as he cleared his A-round funding. (We've been confounders before on a project that flopped and he knew I wasn't in the risk position to be a dayjob-quitting early employee this time.) He's a serious workaholic -- claims to enjoy being so -- and the company is doing very well. That said, he's CLEARLY burning out.

He's talked for the last year about taking some time off, but between the birth of a new child, fundraising, strategic partnerships and the continued burden of success, his "week in Florida" kept being pushed off, shrunk to "three days in Florida" to "a day off" to "I'll take some time after this next funding round. Maybe."

Setting aside the fact that he's my CEO (and a ragged chief exec is bad for everybody), he's also a friend. I don't want to see him burn out. This will almost certainly NOT be the last company we work on together, and I'd like to see him survive -- mind, body, marriage and social circle intact -- past our current endeavor.

So, again, how do I convince my workaholic CEO to take some time off?

<comment><USER39> Taking a day off is much harder than doing something in particular that's fun. I rarely "take a day off" -- frankly, it's boring. But doing something in particular is much easier. He's your friend, so you probably know what he likes -- suggest something. An all-day hike, paintball, star-trek marathon, you could even toss around romantic ideas he could do with his wife. Give him something specific to do that's compelling, and I bet he'll be more likely to do it than "take time off."

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> I was in a similar place about 18 months ago with a digital agency I founded and ended up selling it about a year ago. I don't regret the selling part but I know now that I could have made my own life a load easier if I just stopped and looked at things objectively.

It sounds to me like you need to get some perspective on things so I would suggest:

1) Talk to your co-founder. They probably see you in ways you don't realise and they should understand that for the sake of the startup it is best to give you a bit of support. If they don't then seriously think about whether you want to continue with someone who won't support you (and the startup) when you need them to.

2) Take a break. By this I mean a real break where your cell phone is off for at least a week if not two. Where you do as little as possible and try not to even think about work. It might take a bit of time to get yourself a chance to do this but you have to.

3) Learn to meditate. It will totally change the way you look at things. The feeling of suffering and pain you have comes from your mind being out of control - you know rationally that it isn't as bad as it seems and said as much above. Learning to calm your mind and get rid of the fog will help you look at what really is important and you will feel more in control and positive.

3) Remember that you are only human. There is nothing wrong with making mistakes and things getting on top of you. You must learn to not be perfect and be happy that you are as you are. There is no shame in needing help.

5) If the above don't work for you go and see a doctor. Depression is a real and sometimes very severe illness. For some people (but only some) medication is the right answer.

Hope that helps.

</comment><comment><USER43> Get a break, something that lasts longer than half a day. Go somewhere where you don't have internet, maybe even no phone connection. Knowing that you actually can't do anything really helps me to wind down and relax. It still needs a day or two, but it's worth ten times as much as a day where I'm supposed to be off but I can constantly check emails and have to actually restrain myself from doing so.

</comment><comment><USER44> You can tell your co-founder. You've got a duty to let them know. I'd be furious if a co-worker told me that they'd been nursing a huge problem on their own, and not let me in on it until it was too late, and it put the whole project in danger.

I'd time-box it - tell them you are feeling burnt out, and want their help for 2 months. No reasonable person would be annoyed at a co-worker taking it easy for 8 weeks. If you feel better at the end of it, then the crisis (for them) is averted. If not, you can consider your options. Note - I'm not a therapist, and I don't know if that's the best way of handling it. There's plenty of people who are better qualified than me to come up with a good plan for this.

> startup that really needs me right now

You should really re-consider that. No startup needs 100% of your ability. A slightly inferior feature-set won't kill a viable startup. You aren't in a 100m sprint in which you need to do everything that's humanly possible to beat the other guy. It's more like a dance competition, in which strategic decisions are more important. That's assuming you have a ton of competitors.

<comment><USER37> Your boss is a dick, so he's making it clear they shouldn't need you. Get that shit out of your head that the sky will fall for these people if you leave. It won't.

It's hard to believe, I know, but they WILL find a replacement and life will go on.

If I'm wrong, your boss should've learned not to work you like a whore.

I can feel the OP's pain man. GTFO. Quit.

<comment><USER44> I don't think the OP's boss is necessarily a dick. The OP may be putting the pressure on himself (he is a co-founder).

But my point is, no company needs you to be give 100%. Ever. Even if you are the only person who can do your job.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> Talk to your cofounder about it! Be honest, there is a solution for every problem.

</comment><comment><USER46> I suppose it is also important to find out why are you burning out? Is it the amount of work? Is it something your co-founders do or something that didn't turn out as expected?

I suppose there are several reasons why someone can burn out, and as well as getting some rest to clean the mind it is also important to find out why that's happening. Otherwise it would happen again.

My first and best manager I had, once told me, that jobs are a bit like relationships, the more you try different ones the more you find out what you _don't_ like. I have found that to be a great piece of advise. So I guess my advise to you would be find out what it is not working for you. Talk to someone outside the whole situation that can have a clear picture of what's happening to you, either a therapist, an old pal or just a family members I guess would be able to help you.

I hope this helps :) I have been there and I was miserable for family and friends.. but having them close to me was a huge help to get back to my old self once again :)

S

</comment><comment><USER47> Hey, I've been in the same boat before and let me tell you about my experience.

I started a small business that worked in conjunction with title companies. We basically recorded on our own servers deeds, notice of defaults, and other real estate documents and sent them to the county recorders office.

We didn't have much competition because this concept was relatively new and not popular back then. So everything was going great except my partner and I were two completely different people when it came to managing.

He was a strict by-the-book kind of guy that alienated potential clients due to his stubborn nature and unwillingness to compromise. On the other hand, I was too lenient and was letting clients take advantage of us. At the time we didn't know that maybe we could complement each others weakness, so we were constantly arguing.

So we both went to a mediator that suggested we go on a recreational trip together and not talk about business at all. So we did and at first argued about minor stuff, but finally came to a realization that neither of us were going to succeed if we kept it up. How could we run a business together if we couldn't even come to an agreement to which car to rent? We started compromising little by little and eventually it was easy to see the other person's point of view.

We turned the business around, made it even more successful and sold it making both of us very happy. Now we have a new company that we started together and it is also doing pretty well.

My advice would be to take some time off. Maybe spend some time with your co- founder in a non-business way. Get to know him if you don't really know him well. And don't sweat the small stuff.

Knowing your problem is the first step, and I think you've already got that down.

If you still feel down, don't forget you have a growing user-base that is cheering you on.

</comment><comment><USER48> Pause, Relax & Recharge.

This happens and in a way it is good that your co-founder is going strong and doesn't need a break too. You badly need to recharge yourself & this has to be time well spent cautiously and consciously chalking out what you do during your break. A hackathlon or doing some sales for a friend can charge you back it need not be necessarily travel or rest. In effect you need to do something very different from the type of thinking that you do everyday (note different in thinking not the work type).

Also give yourself a break from all the headaches on your current startup - consciously keep away from talking to anyone on the team or checking out updates (positive updates are probably fine)

If you are the type of person for whom physical exertion works free up the mind - go for a hard trek or run or swim.

As far as your depressed nature, cofounder resentment etc - you might be blowing it out of proportion right now given you are not able to contribute effectively or thinking too much.

</comment><comment><USER49> I think this is happening to my co-founder (though I don't think he's the OP). We've been working on our SaaS company for several years, have a good number of paying customers, have hired half a dozen employees from revenue (never took funding), and are building a great company with a product our customers love. But it's still a struggle every day, and there are always more things to do than we have time for.

I can tell he's tired - he comes in to the office later and later, seems more easily irritated, has worked crazy long hours for years with hardly any days or weekends off. I think the daily stresses are just starting to wear on him. (Me too, of course, but that's a subject for a different post!) If I recognize what the OP is going through in my own co-founder, how should I bring it up?

For those of you who have or are going through this kind of thing, any thoughts on the best way to talk to someone who is struggling with this? I really want to help.

</comment><comment><USER50> > _somewhat depressed all the time, easily irritable_

It took me several years to pin it down, but in my case getting more sleep _completely_ solved above problems. Try and take a full day off and sleep in. Pull full 9-10 hours of sleep and assess if your irritability level is the same or not.

</comment><comment><USER51> You can tell someone, and you have.

The biggest issue from a business standpoint is your resentment of your cofounder [I'll leave healthcare diagnosis to the professionals].

Basically, you and your cofounder are married. The startup is your baby. I expect [based on personal experience] a marriage counselor would focus on improving communication between the two of you.

I'd ask what the particular resentment is in regards to, but the details don't really matter.

What matters is:

1\. Are the causes of resentment something which can be rectified either directly between the two of you, or with mediation?

2\. How can the level of trust between the two of you be strengthened to the point where you can work through these problems together?

3\. Is there someone who could help both of you work through the issue together?

</comment><comment><USER52> Something that's helped me, without having to resort to smart drugs, or anything like that, is increasing your vitamin intake from natural sources, I get the natural vitamins (made from real fruits and vegetables, not manufactured ones in a lab, you have to look for them as they don't sell them everywhere and they are more expensive) and also drink a lot of vegetable juice or the veggie / fruit juice mixes (look for the light ones or sodium free ones if you want to keep it as healthy as possible). I don't know for sure if is a placebo effect or if it really boosts energy short term, but I feel like it can sometimes give me a boost and just feel healthier and more awake overall.

</comment><comment><USER53> You _can_ tell someone. Tell you co-founder if you have a strong relationship.

The "end-game" for burnout is complete dysfunction and possibly worse for an extended period of time. If this happens the first thing your co-founder will say is "Why didn't you tell me?"

</comment><comment><USER54> If your startup really needs you and your colleagues know that, everyone will understand if you are under too much stress and I think their reactions (while possible sad (which you might interpret as disappointment)) will be understanding.

</comment><comment><USER55> Check out Leo Babauta: <http://zenhabits.net/> Lots of great posts about creating habits everyone is suggesting, like sleep, rest, meditation, to find balance and letting go of stress.

<comment><USER56> zenhabits is definitely a resource everybody should turn to. I've been practicing some of the advices I've red there and I can say that the outcome was very positive for me.

</comment></comment><comment><USER57> You have to give your brain a break. That doesn't necessarily mean doing nothing but it can be doing something more along the lines of a hobby - <USER2> as creating music, doing graphics, gardening etc...

One of the most common overlooked things with developers is the fact that your brain strives for equilibrium. Tipping the scale too long can really have disastrous side-effects if you aren't doing some of the things you love doing. I broke down for nearly 2 months unable to code at all but it was the last time that happened since these adjustments.

</comment><comment><USER58> Get out of the situation NOW, before the damage is too big to handle. Take a week break and go somewhere far from email and phone, and use the time to think how to restructure your work so it doesn't happen again when you get back. You need serious restructuring and lots of delegation. Nothing is more important than your well-being, and your company will suffer more in the long run, if you're down.

Daily exercise helped me, try getting your pulse up, if you do this regularly you will get much better mood, more energy and things will lighten up.

</comment><comment><USER59> Get to a yoga class every day. That's your break away from the world, once per day. That's how I first broke the cycle - I wasn't giving any actual time to myself. Second part is if there are thoughts and feelings coming up you can't find a solution to yourself (eg: cognitive dissonance because of the results you see happening) then you need to talk to different people to get new perspectives that help you get through the cognitive dissonance. Easier said than done, but that process works for me when I am aware it's needed..

</comment><comment><USER60> Take a break.

Become one of the inspiration junkies. Go to the gym. Work on another side of the business. Schedule your day, leaving time away from your startup. Don't let what's urgent mascarade around with the set of things that actually _need_ to get done. Start taking legal "smart" drugs like Piracetam, Aniracetam, Pramiracetam, Noopept, Acetyl-L-Carnitine, Lion's Mane Mushroom, Magnesium L-Threonate, etc.. in addition to helping you get "smarter" and increasing your productivity/proficiency they'll give you motivation and a serene feeling.

Meditate.

</comment><comment><USER61> Nothing is worth risking burnout for (well, maybe saving your child or something like that). It takes _ages_ to recover (roughly as long as you've spent building it up, which may be years), and I'm not entirely sure if it might leave anything permanent (wrt dealing with stress or pressure) preventing you from crawling back up to your previous 100%.

So, think about that and act.

How exactly to break it, I'm seeing loads of great advice in the rest of this thread so I'm not going to repeat it all. It's a different struggle for everyone.

</comment><comment><USER62> Interested to read all the remedies to figure out how this can be prevented. I'm a first-time founder starting to display some of these symptoms - the main one for me being this feeling in my stomach every time I wake up in the morning. A feeling of I'm not doing enough to move the ball forward combined with a a feeling of there's too much to do, I don't even know where to start. Sometimes it results in me laying there for another half hour, not wanting to face anything. Finally, I'll get up and face it.

</comment><comment><USER63> I went through something similar last summer. Others have mention therapy and medication, both of which I second. Also, look into whether you have adrenal fatigue. I had it and the cure has been to take several supplements, notably DHEA and rhodiola rosea.

I was good about exercising even at the depths of my burnout, but I nonetheless still felt tired all the time. The dietary supplements have made a profound difference. I've never felt so energetic in my life (I'm in my mid forties).

</comment><comment><USER64> Sleep enough. Eat well. Don't forget the fitness. You can't let the body go, he's essential to mind.

I'd recommend some sort of mind training... just relaxing doing what other people says is relaxing almost never helps (beach, book, etc).

Check this out [english audio]: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHjyMq6eZB8>

This one is good too: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogH3KAge6zw>

</comment><comment><USER65> Depression is bigger than work. Watch out for changes in diet or sleeping patterns. Half days off are a possible indicator. What's the cost of seeing your dr. and having a conversation? Not much.

Don't think it can happen to you? Read about Ben Huh at Cheezeburger. [http://www.geekwire.com/2011/cheezburger-ceo-ben-huh- details...](http://www.geekwire.com/2011/cheezburger-ceo-ben-huh-details- personal-struggles-depression/)

</comment><comment><USER66> Have a fun night with your team. We just had a video game, March Madness, pizza hangout. Lot's of beer was consumed, people had a great time. The next day our company morale was noticeably higher.

Take a step back, try to spot areas where you and your cofounder butt heads, it most likely comes down to two things: 1) Communication 2) Expectations.

Manage your communications and expectations proactively and you'll be a much happier company.

</comment><comment><USER67> I had the same problem three years ago. I started meditating a lot, and I've realized that my thoughts are the source of all experiences.

<comment><USER68> I found HoloSync a very good introduction to meditation if you need assistance to get 'into it'. The middle way or transcendental meditation might not always be the solution if you already have a massively erratic and consumed headspace.

</comment></comment><comment><USER69> I have been there and crashed and burned in the process. Two things that have completely changed my perspective that I suggest is reading two books, "The Secret of Letting Go" by Guy Finley and "The 28 Laws of Attraction" by Thomas Leonard. You have to make a mental shift and let go of the baggage that you feel is forcing you to do things you resent.

</comment><comment><USER70> Two things come to mind that might be your cause:

1) Not enough sleep and exercise. Get at least three consecutive days of solid sleep and go work out. See how it changes your mood and thoughts. 2) Your co- founder is dominant and you have no say. You don't feel ownership. There's an imbalance of power and you're in the second seat. A lot of startups operate this way.

</comment><comment><USER33> I hope some of the advice people have given here is helpful to you. It would be a lot easier to advise you effectively if you gave us some more details about specific experiences which have triggered the irritation, resentment and desire for a break. Any suggestions made without that information are at least a little speculative.

</comment><comment><USER71> It's more common than you realize. I haven't necessarily found a cure all, but talking about it... helps. Find yourself a professional mentor because this is a career issue.

On a personal note, I was (is) feeling the same thing for a long time. You have to decide what your life is going to look like. Pay attention to compromising decisions.

</comment><comment><USER72> Good luck. I had a similar experience but with nothing as important as a startup. I simply slowed the rhythm of everything. I still am dealing with this situation but so far it ain't bad. Of course my case was not-time dependent so that was not a problem. I think it was a mistake (cost option wise). We'll see.

</comment><comment><USER73> "The 4-Hour Workweek" could help: [http://www.amazon.com/The-4-Hour-Workweek- Anywhere-Expanded/...](http://www.amazon.com/The-4-Hour-Workweek-Anywhere- Expanded/dp/0307465357/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1332251810&sr=1-1)

The author has __some __really good points and ideas.

</comment><comment><USER74> Go see a doctor. Now. Don't put it off.

</comment><comment><USER75> Take a complete change of scene for at least two weeks. Go away and spend the time doing something that takes up your attention (rock climbing, skiing, visiting old friends, whatever). This should make you feel human again. Then you can hopefully at least see things in perspective.

</comment><comment><USER76> I've been there. Why do you feel burned out?

P.S. If you are my co-founder, take a vacation already. You work too much!

</comment><comment><USER77> My exprience of this kind of situation is that one or more things are sucking all your energy. What I mean by this is that it's not just about getting a rest. What you should do is take a step back and try to see what is sucking all your psychological energy. If you are resentful of your cofounder, then something is not right there.

What happens in such situation is that we naturally and often unconsciously start to think about it trying to find a way to handle it, understand what is going on and how to solve the situation. This is going on 24/24 7/7 and this is what is sucking your energy.

Taking a week off is an emergency protection measure you should indeed apply. But this just puts a spatial distance between what is harming you and yourself. Soon or later you'll have to come back to your startup. You probably know it and you may spend this week off continuing to burn your energy thinking about the problems.

So taking a real step back and a week off requires that you completely switch off from the harmful context. This requires will power but you are aware that your health is in danger now.

The second thing to do is become aware that apparently you are failing to solve the problem by yourself the way you tried so far (probably unconsciously with intuitive methods). So you have two options now. One is to take the step back and, after a recovery time, reanalyse the situation rationaly by trying a different approach you tried so far. The second is to get help from someone who know what you are going through and can help you sort out the solution. In both case it is only you that can identify the problems and the way out. The help is just to help you make a difference between what is important, what is not, what are automatic negative ideas and what is truly positive.

You got aware that something is wrong and you asked for advise. That is great because you've done half of the way to get you out of this situation.

Last point. As other people tell you here. Take this problem very seriously and tackle it NOW, ASAP or get the hell out of this situation if you can't handle it. This can kill you by suicide if you don't handle it. This may sound completely stupid and unbelievable to suicide one self, but you may get into a depression state where the pain you feel is so strong and unbearable, the situation seaming so hopless that sucide will look like a very rational and logic way to stop this. You are apparently far from this stage, but this is what you'll find at the end of the road if you don't solve the situation. I don't want to scare you. It is just to show you what is in the balance and why you should react and take it very serioulsy. The earlier you detect it, the easier you can adjust your course to avoid the dead end.

</comment><comment><USER78> Redhat, people care about you. Focus on those who take care of you the most. For many of us that is family, but if not family, your friends away from startupland. If not them, we'll help. You never forfeit any option, especially when you keep yourself healthy.

</comment><comment><USER79> Depending on what stage you are guys are in your startup should be able to survive a week without you. What if something happened that forced your or your cofounder to be gone for X amount of time? You need safeguards up to protect against the unexpected.

</comment><comment><USER80> Sounds like it's time for you to move on. You need to take care of yourself before everything else. If your cofounder has any common sense at all, s/he would've told you to take as much time off as you need to fix yourself up.

</comment><comment><USER81> I burned out late last year after finishing our accelerator program. I took some time to reset and then came back with a vengeance. I'm happy to grab a drink/talk on the phone and share what worked for me: email@example.com.

</comment><comment><USER82> A half day isn't enough. You need to have at least one night where you go to sleep not thinking about work. Whether that's a 4 day weekend or a week of vacation, you need it.

An ounce of prevention...something something.

</comment><comment><USER83> I drive a startup with a Bipolar cofounder and confess ins't easy task. I am learning how to get self control and focus on our target.

</comment><comment><USER84> Yes, you can talk to someone. You can talk to me, FWIW. I've been there. Feel free to contact me anytime, email is in my profile.

</comment><comment><USER85> Start exercising.

</comment><comment><USER86> If they need you and you don't take care of yourself to prevent burnout, then they'll be let down.

</comment><comment><USER87> advise i would prefer to give has already been communicated.

so I would just say you are not alone!

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> wow. I had no idea I'd get such a response - thank you all for the support, I'm making my way through all your comments and will try many of the things suggested.

</comment><comment><USER88> Try out all the suggestions mentioned here. All of them.

</comment><comment><USER89> Take time to celebrate what you have achieved so far.

</comment><comment><USER90> I take walks :)

<comment><USER91> I second this. Especially with coding, I've found the answers to my philosophical questions, and my logic quandaries more than a handful of times.

Also, make sure you're surrounded by motivating people, or atleast people that get you thinking. I lack this sometimes in the work environment and it's a drag...

</comment></comment><comment><USER92> This type of fatigue is usually caused by selfishness and excessive thinking about yourself.

Also, if you are motivated entirely by making money and are not inspired by what you are doing, this could be a cause.

Find out why you're doing what you're doing, reaffirm it, and it will inspire you again. Stop sulking. A physical break is not going to help if you don't sort yourself out mentally.

I know it's hard to swallow, but try it.

<comment><USER30> Is English your first language?

You could have worded your post much better than you did.

> _This type of fatigue is usually caused by selfishness and excessive > thinking about yourself._

"There's evidence to show that patterns of negative thinking, about yourself or about the situation you're in, can cause depression".

> _Stop sulking._

I can't rewrite this and keep any kind of meaning. Maybe "Use Cognitive Behaviour Therapy to learn to stop negative thoughts, and create positive thoughts".

> _I know it's hard to swallow_

Yes, it was pretty offensive and not helpful.

<comment><USER93> Sometimes, a metaphorical slap in the face is the right prescription. Not from a stranger on the internet, though.

And usually not when the person has already acknowledged that he's got issues and is asking for help.</comment></comment></comment>


Machine Learning: a Love Story (video) - <AUTHOR> http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Machine-Learning

<comment><USER2> Took me till 4 minutes in to realise the slides are shown below. (I have a small screen)

</comment><comment><USER3> Where's the promised math? Very little technical content here. Off to find a book..</comment>


Introducing the Qt Lite project – Qt for any platform, any thing, any size - <AUTHOR> http://blog.qt.io/blog/2016/08/18/introducing-the-qt-lite-project-qt-for-any-platform-any-thing-any-size/ <comment><USER2> The amount of editorial in this post is mind blowing. Am I the only one who found it extremely hard (yes, extremely) to sift through all the blurb of text. In the end, I am not even sure what is being released.

<comment><USER3> Skimmed it.

TLDR: will be able to configure smaller subsets of Qt modules so you don't have to deliver the whole package on small systems.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> _The new configuration system in Qt, allows your define the content you need from each module in much more detail for your project and easily allows for feature based tailoring of the Qt modules. We are starting with enabling this fully for Qt Core, Qt Network, Qt GUI, Qt QML and Qt Quick. You can now fine tune which features from these modules you want to include in your project. There is no longer any need to include unnecessary features._

To be clear, this potentially reduces binary sizes, but it does not by itself change run-time performance.

 _No Open GL Requirement ... The Qt Quick 2D renderer can work in software only, but it is also designed to utilize accelerated 2D operations, for devices that packs a little bit more punch, but still doesn't have full OpenGL support._

I wonder what kinds of devices this is intended for? Presumably, they are a very important market for Qt to have implemented this? And these devices have graphics displays but they lack GPUs? What device could that be?

CPU software rendering seems like a step backwards for performance. GPUs and OpenGL must be more energy efficient at this task than software rendering, and I would imagine that important embedded devices with graphics displays must all have GPUs or will in the future?

I would have thought that "Qt for any platform" would include web browser (WebAssembly / Emscripten / WebGL) but no such luck. Based on the title, I thought this was going to be some drastic optimization of Qt's GUI. It doesn't sound like that's the case.

I haven't used Qt on embedded devices, but I've looked at several demos of Qt compiled to JavaScript with Emscripten [1] and the results seem very slow. Part of the reason seems to be that these Emscripten demos have Qt falling back to software rendering, instead of using WebGL accelerated rendering ... I don't think that another software rendering backend for Qt solves this problem.

[1] [http://vps2.etotheipiplusone.com:30176/redmine/projects/emsc...](http://vps2.etotheipiplusone.com:30176/redmine/projects/emscripten- qt/wiki/Demos)

<comment><USER5>
       I wonder what kinds of devices this is intended for?

This: [http://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/evaluation- tool...](http://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/evaluation- tools/product-evaluation-tools/mcu-eval-tools/stm32-mcu-eval-tools/stm32-mcu- discovery-kits/32f469idiscovery.html) ARM Cortex M-4 architecture, 800 x 480 full color display, 16MB of RAM and 16MB of flash on this demo board and the part includes a 2D bitblit unit (ST calls is ChromArt(tm)) which can do fill from constant, memory to memory region copy, memory to memory copy with alpha blend, (and all three with pixel format conversion options)

Put a keyboard and a VGA monitor on it and you've got a PC that is at least as powerful as the ones from the late 80's early 90's.

<comment><USER6> What are possible use cases for a device like this? (I didn't downvote you and I don't know why anyone would)

<comment><USER7> Certainly, why would you want that vs. a $5 Rapsberry Pi Zero which _does_ have an actual GPU, media acceleration, etc., more RAM, a more powerful CPU, etc.

<comment><USER8> E.g. because of much longer guaranteed support/supply life, which is a must if you are trying to run a serious production. There might be some other reasons too.

<comment><USER7> > _because of much longer guaranteed support /supply life_

The underlying components in the Pi Zero also have a long "guaranteed" support/supply life. You don't have to rely on the Pi foundation for your components, or the board itself (as I pointed out in another reply in this thread).

My primary point is that the cost of a GPU these days is very close to zero, so I see little benefit in picking a platform that doesn't have one _if you need that capability_.

<comment><USER9> Uhhh have you ever _dealt_ with Broadcom? The BCM2835 chip powering the RPi zero isn't something you can buy without negotiating with Broadcom directly and a minimum order size in the tens or hundreds of thousands. That is a far cry from STM parts you can order off of Digikey or Mouser. Even some of my bigger clients won't base products on Broadcom chips for that reason alone.

And no, even in the best of cases where you have great software support from the vendor (ha! as if) and a great reference design, adding a GPU to a design is expensive because of both software and hardware R&D. unless you have an integrated CPU/GPU combo but then you're back to the problem of dealing with Qualcomm/Broadcom.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> What is the benefit over static linking and letting the linker remove unused symbols ? (without considering licensing rules)

<comment><USER11> Mostly the new software render, which can run without OpenGL.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> "At least for now, the configuration tooling will be a part of the Qt for Device Creation product, and not open source."

I do wonder how a lot of companies's dual license model is going to interact with the IoT / embedded world.

<comment><USER13> I'm thinking about avoiding it for my IoT device node work.

I'm prototyping a node project right now for a large customer (>50K deployments) and while Qt helped me get code running quickly there won't be a way to comply with the dynamic linking model on my final hardware. Can't afford the Qt license in my BOM (probably would be 25% of my bill) so out it goes.

<comment><USER12> Any idea what you are going to replace it with?

<comment><USER13> A lot of my smaller devices uses FreeRTOS, it's got a nice simple scheduler and it's easy to work with.

I've also used the uEZ application later from FDI on top of FreeRTOS when I need a more robust application.

Although I'm looking at the Kinetis M3 line for upcoming work, so I might use mbed.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I wish they had done this few years back. I've wasted waaay too much time trying to minimize and cram down Qt to the small devices.

</comment><comment><USER15> Is it out anywhere? I looked through it and never saw a download link or check out the code here... something.</comment>


Ask HN: Open Source Horror Stories - <AUTHOR>

Hello.
We know positive success stories about people open sourcing their product.
I would be very interested in finding counter examples.
Who had regrets afterwards? Any horror stories?
Background: I would like to convince my investor and myself that we should free the core of our application and have an additional commercial license. The application is mostly targeted at bigger enterprise level customers and I do not see that the people who have commercial licenses, would even consider to go with the free version. But I might be wrong.
Thanks for your time. <comment><USER2> Think about it pragmatically - most early startups (it sounds like you have an angel) don't have the cash to properly support an open source project in addition to trying to have strong growth. You either focus too much on the OSS offering and limit yourself as a result, or you don't give it enough attention and it languishes which results in no one using it and you potentially looking like an asshole.</comment>


Ask HN: What are the best resources for learning Maths and Physics? - <AUTHOR> I'm trying to teach myself the foundations of Maths and Physics, University year one stuff. What resources have helped you? <comment><USER2> For Calculus, there's an OSU/Coursera class:

[https://mooculus.osu.edu/](https://mooculus.osu.edu/)

I've been going through that for a refresher and it's been pretty useful. Not sure I'd rely on it alone for learning calculus, but luckily there are some other really good resources, like:

1\. MathBFF's Youtube videos. [https://www.youtube.com/user/mathbff](https://www.youtube.com/user/mathbff)

2\. Professor Leonard's Youtube videos: [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoHhuummRZaIVX7bD4t2czg](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoHhuummRZaIVX7bD4t2czg)

3\. Gilbert Strang's Calculus Lectures: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcWsDwg1XwM&list=PLFW_V3qDH5...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcWsDwg1XwM&list=PLFW_V3qDH5jRyfpD9uiq6aKVTWIxpbIm3)

Also, Khan Academy.

For Statistics, I've been going through the Duke/Coursera "Statistics with R" sequence, as well as the Johns Hopkins Data Science specialization.

For math higher than Calculus... well, I haven't really gotten there yet, but Gilbert Strang also has a series of lectures on Linear Algebra on Youtube which are very well regarded, from what I've seen. Also, there are Youtube videos on pretty much everything you can think of, all the way up to Abstract Algebra and what-not. How good they are, I cannot say.

For "pre calculus" review stuff, Khan Academy is pretty good.

Some other good resources are the Math Stack Exchange site (note: math.stackexchange.com, not mathoverflow). Homework'ish questions seem to be allowed, although with the usual caveat that you're kinda expected to have at least made some effort before asking.

There are also several sub-reddits dedicated to learning math. I forget what they all are, but look for stuff like

/r/cheatatmath /r/learnmath /r/mathhomework etc.

I think if you just hit /r/math there's a list of such sites in the sidebar.

For Physics, there are more stackexchange sites, and there are the forums at [https://www.physicsforums.com/](https://www.physicsforums.com/)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you so much for this! Going to look at everything now.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I haven't tried this site myself, but it looks helpful: [https://netmath.illinois.edu](https://netmath.illinois.edu)

My short book on this in case you want to go farther: [https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asin=B01N2XC56E&preview=new...](https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asin=B01N2XC56E&preview=newtab&linkCode=kpe&ref_=cm_sw_r_kb_dp_HTtyybGDRR86E)</comment>


Many devs don't like new VS Code Logo - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/35783#issuecomment-335688011 <comment><USER2> Of all the things to worry about in an electron app, they don't like the _logo_?</comment>


Flying Passenger - <AUTHOR> http://blog.phusion.nl/2013/07/03/technology-preview-introducing-flying-passenger/#hn

<comment><AUTHOR> This is a new feature in 4.0.6. Unlike what the article says, it has already been released.</comment>


Athletes Don't Own Their Tattoos – a Problem for Video Game Developers - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/27/style/tattoos-video-games.html <comment><USER2> "Lawyers generally agree that an implied license allows people to freely display their tattoos in public, including on television broadcasts or magazine covers. "

Seems to me that the digital representation of someone is just another way of displaying themselves. If it's legal to do it in photos and videos, it's legal to do it in 3D models.

But even without that, I think it's unethical to claim ownership to any part of someone else's body and tell them what they can and can't do with it. (Laws are an obvious exception to this.)

<comment><USER3>
      If it's legal to do it in photos and videos,
      it's legal to do it in 3D models.

Perhaps it _ought to be by extension_ but apparently it's far from a settled matter.

I mean, our copyright laws are full of weird seeming-contradictions. Games companies pay to license an athlete's likeness, but photographers don't? Photographs of a sculpture are copyright-protected, but photographs of tattoos aren't? Architecture with an expired copyright can be lit up with lights to regain copyright protection?

Copyright law isn't really amenable to deducing that one thing is legal just because another very similar thing is legal.

<comment><USER4> Not just copyright law. Look at the difference in laws being recording a video of a person and recording sound of the same person. I would love for law to be consistent, but as of yet there is no such requirement.

<comment><USER5> For more headfuckery, try to work out if you can record a video of the soundwaves.

<comment><USER4> You can. You record a high definition video of items and can possibly determine the sound waves from the movement of the items. I've already seen demos of this tech where you can restore the majority of a transcript of a visually recorded conversation.

<comment><USER6> You technically can, but then it becomes illegal in most states.

<comment><USER4> Is there any case law on this? Given it is a recording of video, not audio, how does the law treat the ability to convert video into audio? This would make most video recordings where audio is illegal to also be illegal, if it is so directly applied.

Another fun legal question is what happens if I add fake audio to a video where the video is legal but the audio isn't, but I use legal audio recordings to fake the voice of the person I videotaped? Does it matter if the injected audio is close enough to what was originally said (say I remembered the words while I recorded the video)?

<comment><USER6> I assumed the post I responded to discussing _actually_ converting it to audio rather than merely recording something that could theoretically be converted to audio. In that case, it's just a different type of photo-microphone, which is well established as audio recording.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Disregarding the insanity of being able to wave your rights to a commissioned piece of artwork, that you paid for, that's attached to your body...I think we really need to rethink how video game content licencing works in the context of copyright law. This is just the current iteration of a debacle that has been ongoing since the first days of video games. Depictions of everyday things are suddenly the property of the original creator of those things, even if they are commodity items or very simplistic depictions. A good example is when video game developers have to pay gun makers to depict their weapons in games. I love FPS games but I would rather not have my money ultimately funneled into the NRA lobbying machine.

<comment><USER8> Yea, I'm really frustrated with this situation as it relates to racing games. Apparently it's ok to shoot photos and movies with real cars in them, but you need to get a license to sell a game that models real cars? Nnngh. I think it's insane. And these games vanish from stores as licenses expire.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Lets get weirder. Can a plastic surgeon own the rights to someone's nose? It's basically a sculpture.

<comment><USER10> It's almost like intellectual property is an absurd injustice.

<comment><USER4> Especially since it escapes taxation. If you taxed IP like you do real property, we would see quite a different system form.

<comment><USER11> I wrote up a proposal for just that and sent it to Dianne Feinstein. I'm still waiting to hear back.

<comment><USER12> She'll hold onto it until it's convenient to expose, just like she did with the Blasey-Ford allegations.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> The whole point of copyright protection was to prevent someone from freely duplicating a work and thereby depriving the original artist of profit, but in the case of a tattoo, I'd argue that every artistic tattoo is so slightly different from each other and labour-intensive to create that it should really be treated as "work for hire" and the human who owns the skin also owns the tattoo on it.

<comment><USER11> When I got a tattoo, I literally hired an artist to take my general design, make it look nice (and tweak it for the medium), and apply it. There's not part of that process that _isn 't_ work for hire.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Honestly if I'm playing a Basketball game the last thing I care about is the detail on tattoos, just parody them...

This isn't such a crucial issue at the end of the day, I don't think you should be able to copyright a tattoo, the design may change as the person ages, or gets into a crazy accident, or whatever. Heck, when they die and decompose / get cremated it's all gone.

<comment><USER15> > "My tattoos are a part of my persona and identity," Mr. James wrote in a > declaration of support for Take-Two and 2K Games. "If I am not shown with my > tattoos, it wouldn't really be a depiction of me."

It comes down to how realistic you want the game to be. With games that pitch themselves as the pinnacle of being realistic with improvements made every year, not having the correct tattoos would break the realism. Especially when the most important athlete of his sports generation says that too.

<comment><USER14> That's a bit crazy to me, but if that's how he feels, it's not like any other game will get any closer to it, that or they can blur the tattoo can't they?

On another note, if I buy a canvas painting from another artist, and then I sell it for millions, but only paid $500 for said painting, can the painter sue me for copyright despite the painting being my property? If not... why are tattoos any different?

<comment><USER9> Because you aren't copying it. First sale doctrine, you're allowed to resell your copy.

<comment><USER14> Ah right, so it would only be an issue if I were to start selling copies of the painting that I forged, stole or something.

<comment><USER16> No, what's happening here is the same as if you had a painting in your house, but for some reason pictures of your house were very popular and seen by millions of people - and they all included the painting. You never made a copy of the painting, but it's now featured on a lot of different media that the original author never agreed to.

I still think it's BS, the tattoo on your body is _YOU_ \- not a separate thing to you.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> "He is just poaching on artists"

This is silly.

No game developer or otherwise is including an athlete's Tattoo as a selling or differentiation point for a game. Said another way, nobody is buying a game in order to see Lebron's Crown tattoo. If the artwork was original and not- player specific such that a user could purchase it as DLC or something similar to place on a custom character there would certainly be a case.

Seems like the legal construct of body artwork not being owned, but rather licensed to the person who it was tattooed on is the problem.

<comment><USER18> >No game developer or otherwise is including an athlete's Tattoo as a selling or differentiation point for a game. Said another way, nobody is buying a game in order to see Lebron's Crown tattoo.

There seems to be an appreciation of it by those who play the game. The linked video in the article showing Mike Evans tattoos seemed to be newsworthy.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvzTrtXXJ5I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvzTrtXXJ5I)

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> This sounds ridiculous to me.

So if someone snaps a photo of him or he is on TV the tattooist is going to get royalties? That goes for anyone else that is tattooed as well.

<comment><USER20> No idea, but it seems like the news is allowed an exemption from royalties because of "fair use" or whatever they call it in Europe now (maybe "protected use" or something).

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Seems to me the only logical thing to do in a digital world is to abadon the idea of intellectual property?

<comment><USER22> This with the other article doing some troll logic mental gymnastics trying to convince us that dance moves/choreography should be copyrightable[1] (or intellectual property) really brings out the point how absurd the notion of IP/copyright is.

When will we see that the whole thing is a sham and needs to be abandoned?

[https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/20/18149869/fortnite- dance-...](https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/20/18149869/fortnite-dance-emote- lawsuit-milly-rock-floss-carlton)

<comment><USER13> _When will we see that the whole thing is a sham and needs to be abandoned?_

Never, as long as there's enough people getting $$$ from it (and have the power to influence such decisions.)

<comment><USER23> To be fair they could also push it far enough to lead to a collapse by competitive disadvantage from choosing stability over progress.

That has happened before at very least once when Commodore Perry came a-knocking with a gunship to Japan.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> I'm old enough to remember when players were a few blocky pixels... the notion of tattoos mattering is pretty amazing.

</comment><comment><USER25> "What many people don't realize, legal experts said, is that the copyright is inherently owned by the tattoo artist, not the person with the tattoos."

Now this will be my argument against having tattoos :)

</comment><comment><USER26> If I hire someone to paint a portrait, and pay him it's mine isn't it? $5 or $5 million, that was the price agreed.

Why is the tattoo any different?

<comment><USER27> No, that's not typically the case. Mostly copyright remains with the artist that made the painting.

[https://www.thoughtco.com/who-owns-copyright-of-a- painting-2...](https://www.thoughtco.com/who-owns-copyright-of-a- painting-2578104)

The reality of copyright law is that strictly applied pretty much everyone breaks it. Some infractions are worth enforcing, most are not.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> If you hire an artist to paint a landscape for you, do you have total ownership of that painting? Could you recreate it digitally and sell it? Assume no extra rights were explicitly transferred, just a standard commission of a piece of art, whatever that entails.

I would have assumed that the answers to these were both yes, but this article makes me think not.

<comment><USER29> You don't. It's a common topic in game development that if you hire a contract artist that the contract needs to explicitly state that you retain the rights of the work they produce for your project, otherwise they can yank those rights should you have a falling out.

<comment><USER30> At least here in BC, something like this applies to code as well. It's considered written work in the same way as a novel, so any developers hired or contracted need to explicitly sign over their "moral rights" to the work.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> I feel intent should matter, is the intent to show the tattoo art? or to make a likeness recognizeable? Mike Tyson has a tattoo on his head, is the intent to convey a likeness of Tyson? or to sell the tattoo as a brand in itself(t shirts and such as a logo)? I mean is it fair use?

</comment><comment><USER32> It seems like it might be a gray area (and, unfortunately as such, something the courts need to resolve) but it's disappointing that NYT did not at least broach the topic and possible applicability of the Work for Hire exception.

</comment><comment><USER33> By this line of reasoning, companies don't own the code their engineers write either. Art collectors don't own the art they paid for. Etc. What a bunch of bullshit. Have these people not heard of work for hire? The artists were paid for their copyright (in addition to the actual manual work). They no longer own the copyright. That's the whole point of the transaction. That's the only reason money was exchanged. No one in their right mind would get a tattoo they couldn't display; something the artist could really demand if they held the copyright. Does something this obvious seriously need litigation? That is some serious misinterpretation of copyright law. As bad as our copyright laws are, they can't possibly be this bad to allow these obviously bullshit cases to stand, can they?

</comment><comment><USER34> I'm just hoping DannyBee posts something to this thread! (He's a lawyer).

[https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=DannyBee](https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=DannyBee)

</comment><comment><USER35> [https://www.gq.com/story/jr-smith-supreme-tattoo- nba](https://www.gq.com/story/jr-smith-supreme-tattoo-nba)

</comment><comment><USER36> What about a surgeon that alters a person's appearance?

</comment><comment><USER37> Shouldn't purchasing the tattoo transfer the rights to the person being tattooed?

<comment><USER38> purchasing a work of art usually does not give you the rights to reproduce the piece.

<comment><USER4> But purchasing the time for a person to create a work for you generally does give you the rights, as a work for hire. Thus temporary tattoos would be copyrightable, but permanent ones that are created only once should not.

<comment><USER38> > But purchasing the time for a person to create a work for you generally does > give you the rights, as a work for hire

AFAIK, this still needs to be explicitly stated in the agreement/contract. by default the creator always owns the IP they create (in the US). this is why software companies have to explicitly state that they will own the product of your work when they hire you.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> First world problems indeed.

<comment><USER40> My favorite kind of problems to have.

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> One of the problems is that a lot of athletes are massively tattooed currently.

Tattoos were used since thousands of years for a particular job (apart of decorative purposes): They excel hiding needle marks. Tattoos with a pattern of multiple repeated x6 or x5 darkened areas arranged in a star or a circle could be particularly useful to mask a weekly routine of steroids delivered around some point of interest. In that sense some designs could be better than other and became equivalent to any other industrial secret for their owner.

And this is only a part of the history. Tattoos showing trade marks or copyrighted art are another problem.</comment>


Dropbox.com blocked as a malware site - <AUTHOR> http://dropbox.com/

<comment><AUTHOR> Dropbox claiming not hacked, mistagged by Google: <http://twitter.com/Dropbox/status/5610900563>

<comment><USER2> seems like its sorted now.. no warnings when i just tried it.</comment></comment>


Web Application to convert Java code to Scala - <AUTHOR> http://www.java2scala.in/

<comment><USER2> I'm just learning Scala (and don't know Java), but seeing as Scala is built on top of Java, what is the value of this tool?

That may be valuable to say on the page Shekhar.

<comment><AUTHOR> There can be multiple use cases. Couple are mentioned below.

1) If you are a Java programmer trying to learn Scala, then you can easily check how a piece of Java code will look in Scala. This can help in learning Scala.

2) In case you want to convert Java application to Scala application this might help.</comment></comment>


Show HN: How to Eat That Frog - <AUTHOR> https://blog.zenkit.com/how-to-eat-that-frog-2c9f0765237a <comment><USER2> It's a good blog post, but that really shouldn't be a "Show HN:"</comment>