Nexus 4 battery bloating - <AUTHOR> http://blog.testmunk.com/nexus-4-devices-are-about-to-explode/ <comment><USER3> "They told us the devices were out of warranty and that replacement (through repair and refurbishing) would cost $153 USD."

This is a common trick attempted by the retail business - to focus on the warranty (where they dictate the terms) rather than your contract (where they often cannot). If you bought the device, you still have a contract of sale with the seller. The details depend on your jurisdiction.

Perhaps in the US the manufacturer can dictate the terms of your contract of sale, I don't know. But here in the UK they cannot - it is statutory.

When I attempted to have a broken Nexus 7 repaired or replaced here in the UK, the store focused on it being "out of warranty". I insisted that I was not claiming under their warranty, but under the contract of sale (the Sale of Goods Act in the UK) where depending on the nature of the goods and the advertised price the store can be liable for up to six years for manufacturing defects. Eventually, after insisting for a while, they made us good with a partial refund to cover the loss of use of the device subsequent to the failure, though it took us a while to negotiate a cash settlement rather than a store credit.

tl;dr: "out of warranty" is not necessarily the end of the story, although I don't know about the US.

<comment><USER4> > tl;dr: "out of warranty" is not necessarily the end of the story, although I > don't know about the US.

In the US, there is no "statute" for contract of sale like you have in the UK. Its entirely what is written by the seller [which is the warranty], so yes, it is the end of the story :P

Generally, if its nearly an immediate loss/failure, you can do something more but that is about the only situation. Months/years later its whatever the merchant & manufacturer stipulated.

<comment><USER5> > In the US, there is no "statute" for contract of sale like you have in the > UK.

Depends on the specific US jurisdiction and the particular kind of sale, but this is _often_ false. See, most notably, the Uniform Commercial Code. [0]

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Commercial_Code](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Commercial_Code)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> This is more common than you might think, particularly on older iPhones. I co- own a repair store in Austin, TX and we get several of these every month-- usually on older iPhones that have been dropped "just right". (Not saying yours was the fault of a drop, but if you leave it plugged in 99% of the time, that was probably your issue.)

Anyway, it's stupid easy to replace these batteries--they're just glued in, usually, so you just buy a replacement battery and back cover, use a tool to pry up the battery, place a new battery in along with some adhesive to hold it down, and pop the new back cover on. One pro tip: Buy at least one more new battery than you need, as some percentage of them, no matter where you buy them from, are defective.

We do these in-store for iPhone 4/5 in under 10 minutes--I don't doubt you can do something similar on the N4.

<comment><USER7> What this guy said, I did so many iPhone 3g/3gs/4/4s. Not fair to call out nexus 4 as the only phone that does this. New battery and back assembly(which is removable) would do the trick.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I just replaced the battery in my Nexus 5 due to earlier stages of the same issue. The battery failure was causing a lot of random device shutdowns that I had initially thought were related to the rollout of Lollipop.

There's a long support thread of people with similar issues at: [https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/nexus/IJSOuc7...](https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/nexus/IJSOuc7gw0w)

Several of the posters there noticed that their battery had started bulging, ordered a new one, and reported that their devices were back to normal. Same issue and fix for my device.

This issue is definitely concerning, and I'm a bit surprised that more hasn't been made of it by now. It seems to be a fairly widespread problem.

<comment><USER9> Ah, the infamous "random shutdown" of the Nexus 4. It has caused me to be 30 minutes late at work a few times that one.

It's annoying really because in the end, there is absolutely NO accountability from either LG or Google that the battery won't work as expected after about two years. Thing is, the price range of the Nexus 4 doesn't exist in the Google mobile lineup anymore, with the Nexus 5 being about twice as expensive. So ultimately, I'll either have to stop buying Nexus phones or spend $400 on a Nexus 5.

<comment><USER10> Yeah it's so frustrating that what I consider the prime price range for mid- range but well built phones existed for awhile, but has since ceased to. Between that and Google Fi sounding great but only being supported by one of these expensive and unwieldy mini-tablets, I guess I'm just outside Google's target market.

<comment><USER11> _Yeah it 's so frustrating that what I consider the prime price range for mid- range but well built phones existed for awhile, but has since ceased to._

Did it? You can pick up a 2014 Moto X for $299. You even get to customize it to your own taste. This phone has nice specs and near-vanilla Android. (Love my Moto X 2014 with cognac leather back :). Though, I bought it when is was still 200 above the current price.)

I hear that the Asus Zenfone 2 is also pretty ok. In Europe it's a little more than 300 Euro for the variant with 4GB RAM and 32 GB storage (there are some cheaper variants as well).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> They ought to cover that unsightly box with some oily rags.

</comment><comment><USER13> I'm a Nexus 4 owner and for the last few months, opening Snapchat has made a really weird analogue clicking noise. The clicking noise has progressed over that time and now my phone will constantly make the same loud clicking noise whenever I touch the screen. It sounds very similar to "sparking" two wires.

I can reboot my phone to make it go away (for about day, but after that the clicking comes back). I've never dropped or scratched my phone.

<comment><USER14> The camera issues on the Nexus 4 are ridiculous. Google has done absolutely nothing to address the issue. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure Snapchat is doing really stupid things with the camera API, since the stability issues are not nearly as pronounced with other camera-using apps.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Although I really like my Nexus 4 as a piece of hardware (generally, it just works) I have run into this problem before. Some googling around the issue indicates that it's fairly common, and may be related to the way the device does a poor job of offloading heat. (Due to the arrangement of the internals, a lot of the heat conducts back through the battery connector instead of into the case of the phone, shortening the lifetime of the battery, or so I read somewhere.)

The heat sink issue can apparently be relieved[1], although I haven't tried this on my own device yet. I did replace the battery, though, after the first one failed and started swelling (not as badly as the pictures, but bad enough to deform the back case noticeably).

[1]: [http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/got-a-hot-nexus-4-heres-a- hack-...](http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/got-a-hot-nexus-4-heres-a-hack-that- will-cool-it-down/)

</comment><comment><USER16> The devices of concern are stored in a cardboard box on a wooden bench? Noting the risk of combustion is low, hopefully that bench is not near any combustible materials in that wall.

</comment><comment><USER17> Interestingly enough, my beloved Nexus 4 just died this past month. I noticed it getting extremely hot, and then one day started a boot loop that I could not fix. I figured some hardware broke. My uncle also picked up one around the same time, and is going through similar problems - overheating and rebooting, though has no boot loop issues. I will warn him of this battery issue.

On another note, I just purchased a Zenfone 2. I accidentally dropped it from about a foot (getting out of the car) and cracked the screen. I noticed most other Zenfone 2 phone that has a cracked screen appears to have it crack in a very similar spot (top right). I guess all phones have their weaknesses. Though, my nexus 4 looked like it went to war and back having been dropped (at excessive heights), and never broke.

<comment><USER18> My Nexus 4 screen started to turn yellow due to the discoloration of the adhesive between the lcd and the digitizer caused by heat. Unfortunately my phone developed a dead sport on the digitizer and no longer registers touch input there.

I just ordered a new screen. I would most likely end up giving the phone to a friend whose phone is dying

<comment><USER19> My Nexus 4 screen started to turn yellow too, and a few weeks later (coincidentally, at the end of last week) the battery bloated like in the OP. So be aware that you might just be covering up symptoms of an imminent death of your phone's battery.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> The video of the battery catching fire is a little distressing knowing that I carry one of those in my pocket at all times.

<comment><USER21> That's actually a cut of a longer video. What's missing is the beginning, where they stab the battery with a knife. Unless you pierce a battery, that kind of combustion is unlikely to happen. If it swells up to the point where the casing fails it could, but you'd probably notice that before it became a dangerous issue.

<comment><USER20> There remains an apparently powerful explosive device a couple inches from my testicles.

<comment><USER22> A battery is very literally power storage. That's its only purpose.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Am I the only one who got confused and though for a second that testmunk.com was the engineering blog of hipmunk.com?

Very similar logo/mascot.

</comment><comment><USER24> I can confirm that this happens regularly. For the team I work with it has been all Samsung S4/S5's that have had this happen. And almost all happened within the first year. Our Nexus 5's though area all good and happy.

</comment><comment><USER25> Why wouldn't you just replace the battery and back cover? A new battery can be had for as little as $6 and a cover is cheap. I've replaced two puffy batteries in my Nexus 4 without any problems and the phone runs fine. It's not having a great time keeping up with the current generations of cell networks but it's still a pretty stellar device.

Some day soon I'm going to really have to try and hunt down a ~4" handset to replace this one... :(

</comment><comment><USER26> Nexus 4 received bad press in the past years after customer disappointment: overheating, camera issue (making the phone crash - warning about this bug in Snapchat), horrible battery life... This article is just another example.

Very disappointed to hear that it happened with a Google backed device - <USER2> hope Nexus 5 and Nexus 6 are more stable better. Not sure if I'll buy another Nexus phone in the future after reading all that.

</comment><comment><USER27> Had the battery on my S4 replaced because of exactly this issue, battery performance was also dramatically affected too.

Aparently this is/was a common issue with a certain batch of Samsung batteries causing them to replace batteries with this problem for free outside of warranty (in the UK at least).

</comment><comment><USER28> I had 8 batteries bloat on my Galaxy S II, I assume it was mostly to the CPU running at 100% heating up the battery while draining it really fast.

Ever since using Cyanogenmod instead of the official ROMs and being more aware of the over heating issue, my battery "consumption" dropped.

</comment><comment><USER29> After I updated my Nexus4 to 5.1.1 the entire device randomly heats up so hot you can't even hold it. Not worth debugging since I don't want it to explode in my face so I junked it.

<comment><USER30> I've noticed worse energy consumption as well, I wonder if this has been reported anywhere.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> It's made by LG. Throughout their long history, they've never really had a reputation for quality. Keep that in mind the next time you shop for any electronics or appliances.

<comment><USER32> Source?

<comment><USER31> Personal experience. They used to be called Goldstar when I was a kid.

You can check out Consumer Reports but it has a paywall.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Sounds like you have a bad battery. This can happen with any device with a li battery. You shouldn't need to quarantine all of the devices.

<comment><USER34> They specifically stated it is happening to all of their Nexus 4 devices.

<comment><USER33> oops, missed that. Hmmm, that is a bit concerning. Wonder if they are all from the same manufacturing run.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> Site appears to be borked for now, archive linky:

[https://archive.is/vmEQW](https://archive.is/vmEQW)

</comment><comment><USER36> I have a Galaxy Nexus with the battery at least 4 times the size it should be. Its in my garage, I will take a photo of it when I get home.

<comment><USER37> Bloated batteries are pretty unsafe, I hope you took proper storage precautions.[0] A garage can be mighty flammable.

[0]: [http://www.tekrevue.com/swollen- battery/](http://www.tekrevue.com/swollen-battery/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> Thanks for correcting the title HN. Lithium batteries bloat, explode, etc... No manufacturing process is perfect, so there is always going to be a small percentage that do this. The only hard requirement is that the failure be contained.

In other words, there's nothing particularly newsworthy here. The fact that testmunk found this significant and specifically paint it as a problem with the nexus 4 does more to show their lack of experience in the field than anything else.

<comment><USER39> So it was just random luck that all their nexus 4 devices demonstrated the same fault ?

<comment><USER40> No, but its a phone from 2012 and its battery has reached or is near EOL by any reasonable metric assuming daily use. Of course you're going to have some battery issues. How many three year old phones work flawlessy? I find by year two they're all fairly roughed up in some way, especially if they're owned by techies who run they harder than most people. Its not surprising considering the age, and perhaps being from the same batch, that they're having issues today.

<comment><USER41> > its battery has reached or is near EOL by any reasonable metric assuming > daily use.

Someone tell that to the battery in my Nokia 6230i from 2007, cause it's been used daily and it doesn't seem to mind :)

Seriously, though, what makes you think that a 2-3 year battery is at or near EOL? Battery life depends on a lot of factors and even then it should lose capacity not swell and explode.

<comment><USER40> Because modern smartphones, unlike your Nokia, work batteries very hard. They discharge more, get charged more often, have more capacity, have less room in the case for cooling, run hot in general, etc.

I don't think its controversial to say that 3 year old phones may start having problems. If this was the new Nexus 6, yes, then there would be a lot of concern, but telling me a budget phone from 2012 is having battery problems in 2015 really isn't saying much.

tldr; the Nexus 4 has a 1 year warranty for a reason.

<comment><USER42> Typing on an n4 here..

I find it unacceptable that the phone's life is now limited by the battery. Where can you buy a new n4 battery now? Nowhere.. Yet the rest of my hardware is fine

At the time of purchasing the n4, I had tried to find another decent smart phone with a replaceable battery but didn't find anything suitable. My next phone won't be with Google and I'll instead be looking for something whose replacement battery will still be around, manufactured and not out of date in 3+ years (a guy can dream)

<comment><USER43> > _Where can you buy a new n4 battery now? Nowhere._

I see a bunch listed on Amazon and eBay. Some of the ones on Amazon have reviews indicating that they are used, but not all of them. You can probably find a new one if you look for it.

<comment><USER42> Many are out of date...

And, what I mean is, given that both consumer and company know that the phone's life would be longer with a new battery, why do they refuse to offer replacements? Phones are fast enough and featured enough for me now. If someone made a decent one with replaceable battery that will be on the market for awhile I'd throw money at them

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> I stopped placing so much brand premium on "Made By Google", at the end of the day, you are at the mercy of the manufacturer.

My google nexus phone was clunky, slow, randomly freeze and restart during phone conversation. When you dropped it the battery and back lid would fall out or not fit properly. I nearly gave up on Android.

Then my asus nexus 7 screen shattered when I dropped it with replacement cost that made it unfeasible to replace it (warranty did not cover it).

Now I have a Moto G, and considering that I paid only 200 bucks for it, it runs extremely light, smooth and reliable, durable, no battery or back lid falling out. Lot of bang for your buck, faith restored in Android.

<comment><USER45> What's funny is that your Nexus phone & tablet _weren 't_ made by Google, but the Moto G actually technically was (Motorola Mobility was their subsidiary at the time).

<comment><USER46> That's a legal fiction though; Google had no effect on Motorola Mobility beyond shuffling finances and patents.

<comment><USER47> Dennis Woodside, Motorola CEO during the Googlerola era, had been at Google since 2003. I can't imagine that Google had nothing to do with Motorola going (near-)Vanilla Android. Also, the "soft" (Googlish?) industrial design of the Moto line marks a rather distinct break from the very angular design of, say, the Droid.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> Click-bait title</comment>


TechStars application now open - <AUTHOR> http://www.techstars.org/apply/

<comment><USER2> Andrew from TechStars here, let me know if anyone has any questions.

I would question the 'rival' tag. I think their is no doubt that everyone here loves startups, and the whole community benefits when there is a vibrant scene.

<comment><USER3> Are you interested only in out of college guys or will you also fund well establish founders with good ideas?

<comment><USER2> Interested in both.

If you look at any early stage investing, you will see it is 99% about the team. We have accepted really solid teams with a very light prototype to fully launched almost profitable apps.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'd be curious to hear what people think about TechStars in comparison to YC.

<comment><USER5> Tough to compare unless you've been close to both. A friend of mine was in a TechStars startup. Just got funded (in this economy!). <http://foodzie.com/>

The advice & support he got was really helpful. Lots of successful people's brains to pick, and enough cash & supplies to build a basic v1.0. I'm not sure what else to tell you...

<comment><USER6> Could you kindly elaborate as to the details of being "funded" in this situation? I am very interested in real numbers. (Obviously you may not be able to provide specifics, but even meta info would be nice, considering the product and the economic climate etc.)

<comment><USER7> They got $1 million: [http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/16/an-online- farmers-m...](http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/16/an-online-farmers- market/) . Always nice to see another vertically-focused online marketplace get funded.

(Interesting note: we started getting a lot more interest once we stopped talking about ourselves as a platform technology that just happened to start off in video games and gear and just kept it simple in calling ourselves a marketplace for video games, systems, and accessories with no upfront mention of the platform. Lesson: tell potential investors the same thing you tell your customers; you can answer follow up questions however you want.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> The scene in Boston isn't as good as New York of SF. I'd imagine the location is the biggest fault of TechStars.

But the model is so good, that I don't really like the "rival" status.

There are positive sum effects from a lots of early stage venture firms, and lots of startups. To illustrate this, just try to ask any YC or TechStars company for advice. You'll notice that they are probably both going to be nice and helpful. That's because that's a characteristic of early stage startups. It's all good.

<comment><USER9> Isn't techstars in boulder?

<comment><USER8> Yes, and I'm sure Boulder ranks close to or behind Boston. Which seems to me a worse location than NYC or SF.

<comment><USER10> The reason Boston and Palo Alto are such great locations are due to the locations of the elite neighboring universities and abundant reverse brain- drain</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Do you carry a backpack? Which one? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> I have a GoRuck GR1 that was an insane gift to myself for 3 years sober. One of my most prized possessions.

[http://www.goruck.com/gr1-rucksack- black-/p/GEAR-000574](http://www.goruck.com/gr1-rucksack-black-/p/GEAR-000574)

<comment><AUTHOR> Congrats! Cool bag -- GoRuck is based in my hometown. Honestly had no idea they were shipping bags all over the world.

<comment><USER2> I live in Washington, DC and I've seen at least five of them here.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> I have a Tom Bihn Synapse 25 ([https://www.tombihn.com/collections/backpacks/products/synap...](https://www.tombihn.com/collections/backpacks/products/synapse-25?variant=17694257863)). I'm very happy with it. Seems like it will last a lifetime. The pockets are well organized and usable.

Cons: it's expensive.

<comment><USER4> +1 for Tom Bihn.

I have the Western Flyer travel bag (the lightweight Halcyon variant, not ballistic nylon) rather than a backpack: [https://www.tombihn.com/collections/travel- bags/products/wes...](https://www.tombihn.com/collections/travel- bags/products/western-flyer)

A present for myself when I scored my first big internship in college. It was amazingly handy when I was in school, and after school when I was traveling a lot for work. Now that I'm not traveling as much and only really take my laptop and a notepad on my daily commute, it's a bit oversized for my needs. But I still love it and use it every day (even with the empty space in it).

The ability to switch between backpack format and messenger bag format is my single most favorite feature. It seems like a gimmick, but there are certain situations or environments where one format is superior or more appropriate than the other, and being able to switch in 30 seconds is really useful in those cases.

I'm harsh on my daily drivers like bags and shoes, and am used to them wearing out quickly because of that. But this bag is still as good as new after 5+ years of being mishandled. Will definitely splurge for another Tom Bihn when I decide to get a more appropriate bag for my current work style/needs.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> A Mission Workshop Vandal

It fits everything I could possibly need for travel and it's comfortable enough to use most places I go. Works _fantastic_ for going grocery shopping. Finish is amazing and it's by far the most durable pack I've ever had. Pricy, but absolutely worth it.

[https://missionworkshop.com/collections/backpacks/products/t...](https://missionworkshop.com/collections/backpacks/products/the- vandal)

</comment><comment><USER6> I got a Peak Design everyday backpack Ash 20L.

It's a good backpack and I'm happy with it. It's a bit different from regular backpacks and the sweet spot is really people carrying tech around.

If you need a backpack for clothes and large books etc I'd get the 30L or maybe another backpack altogether.

Also I think it's kinda of expensive for what it is.

[https://www.peakdesign.com/product/bags/](https://www.peakdesign.com/product/bags/)

<comment><USER7> I have the 30L charcoal Peak Design bag. It is a bit on the pricey side but worth it in my opinion. As a laptop/camera bag I am very happy with it. I bring my camera and a couple of lenses everywhere--ideal for my use. I like the look of it too.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> You might like this subreddit [https://www.reddit.com/r/onebag/](https://www.reddit.com/r/onebag/) (and the related subreddits on the sidebar.

</comment><comment><USER9> I used this LL Bean quad pack [0], but in green. It had good back support and was sturdier than most. Also, LL Bean has a lifetime return policy if you are ever unsatisfied [1].

I now carry this Patagonia Refugio 28L [2]. Smaller, less heavier, and more suited to my needs than the previous backpack.

[0] [http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/513705?nav=ftlink](http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/513705?nav=ftlink)

[1] [http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/91558?feat=816-CL1&page=quad-...](http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/91558?feat=816-CL1&page=quad- pack-heather)

[2] [https://imgur.com/a/SZTsc](https://imgur.com/a/SZTsc)

</comment><comment><USER10> The Côte & Ciel Isar Rucksack. Perfect for daily carry and short trips. The laptop compartment can fit a 15in Macbook Pro and the main compartment can hold a couple changes of clothes and toiletries. Still looks brand new after a couple years of use.

[https://www.coteetciel.com/en-US/isar-backpack-black- melange...](https://www.coteetciel.com/en-US/isar-backpack-black-melange- laptop-bag)

</comment><comment><USER11> Another vote for the Goruck GR-1.

[http://www.goruck.com/gr1-rucksack- black-/p/GEAR-000574](http://www.goruck.com/gr1-rucksack-black-/p/GEAR-000574)

It's been through three rucks and has been my daily partner for three years now.

As a bike commuting New Yorker, I'm frequently carrying my whole life around plus laptop, and it's been perfect. It looks as new as the day I purchased it.

A truly buy it for life item.

</comment><comment><USER12> Last year, I decided I wanted an age appropriate backpack and got a Piquadro: [http://www.piquadro.com/us/bags-backpacs- briefcases/laptop-b...](http://www.piquadro.com/us/bags-backpacs- briefcases/laptop-backpacks/notebook-backpack-with-ipadrair-air-2.html)

Not as rugged as some of the other models discussed here, but very stylish IMHO.

</comment><comment><USER13> Perhaps a little unusual for a programmer, but I hate techy clothing/accessories. I use a [http://www.filson.com/rucksack.html](http://www.filson.com/rucksack.html). $350 now, but I paid ~$200 when I bought it--8 years ago. Even after all this time, it's still beautiful and rugged. I'll probably get another 8 years out of it.

</comment><comment><USER14> I spent 6 months as a "digital nomad" in Europe living out of this bag: [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PAD435A/ref=oh_aui_deta...](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PAD435A/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

I love it. It's great.

<comment><USER15> Did you keep a blog/write at all about being your experiences as a "digital nomad"?

<comment><USER14> I generally prefer privacy over blog posts, but I do plan to do a few write ups.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I've been carrying around this everlane modern snapback for years and love it. [https://www.everlane.com/collections/mens-backpacks- bags](https://www.everlane.com/collections/mens-backpacks-bags)

</comment><comment><USER17> I love this $30 backpack I randomly found at Ikea of all places: [http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/20313571/](http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/20313571/)

It's simple. No overt branding (that can't be seam-ripped out quite easily). Lots of pockets and chambers and expandability. And perhaps most significantly, only $30.

I've considered buying a backup backpack since they're so cheap and also since backpacks aren't likely to be a mainstay product category for Ikea.

<comment><USER18> I love cheap things that are good.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> I have a minaal daybag. [https://www.minaal.com/collections/your-future- gear/products...](https://www.minaal.com/collections/your-future- gear/products/daily-bag)

Laptop pocket, which fits my 15" macbook and an ipad no problem. Also is roomy enough for a small drybag for the gym.

Its accessory infrastructure is nice and thought out well. has a handle and a strap so you can carry it as a briefcase or a messenger bag, and the backpack straps zip out of the way when you want to do that

Also, customer service is top notch.

<comment><AUTHOR> Wow, that's almost exactly what I'm looking for! A bit spendy, but seems worth it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> I carry a Tom Bihn Synapse 25. This bag seems like it never runs out of room, and I couldn't be happier.

</comment><comment><USER21> Mission Workshop Vandal [0]

I've had a number of bags, backpacks. I think this is my last. I've had North Face Recon's (the older models are much higher quality), Osprey, Timbuk2 (before they got popular), Waterfield Muzetto, Waterfield Cargo.

I think I'm content and this is my last one.

[0] [https://missionworkshop.com/collections/backpacks/products/t...](https://missionworkshop.com/collections/backpacks/products/the- vandal)

</comment><comment><USER22> I'd been using a Tom Bihn briefcase (not sure they make the model anymore), which I really liked except that the floppiness of it made it hard to get things in and out of. It eventually started to crunch my shoulder on trips, too.

A few months ago, though, I switched back to a backpack: the Cannae Legion Elite Day Pack ([https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01C05CRI0](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01C05CRI0)). It's a little much around the edges (there's a LOT of MOLLE on there!), and I'm still figuring out the best use for the helmet flap, although I think it'll work well for a jacket when traveling. Lots of pluses, though: the laptop slot perfectly fits my 15" MBP, and the interior is large and roomy with just enough straps and pockets to fit the few small items I have so they don't rattle around and just enough open space to let the rest of my stuff fit without having to play Tetris to get something in or out. There's a small zipper pocket on the upper flap that fits headphones and other important small items, too, and the design of the pack means I can just open the top and slide things in and out without impedance, or open it a lot wider for packing.

</comment><comment><USER23> I love my Osprey Stratos 26l [1]

I use it for my daily bike commute, as well as for hiking, skiing and as day pack for traveling. It combines (almost) all of the features I'm looking for in a daypack:

Mesh ventilation keeps my back dry when riding my bike in summer. Phone, key and wallet fit in the waist strap pockets for fast reach. Rain cover keeps my stuff dry for the occasional downpour. 26l is large enough to fit in a 11" MacBook and basic climbing gear, small enough to not be bulky. CamelPak fits in to keep me hydrated when in the mountains.

The only feature I miss is being able to remove the waist straps, if I so wish. Larger backpacks, e.g. from Deuter, support this.

If I would use my backpack solely for bike commuting, I'd buy a Deuter Giga Bike [2]

[1] [http://www.ospreyeurope.com/gb_en/hiking/stratos- series/stra...](http://www.ospreyeurope.com/gb_en/hiking/stratos- series/stratos-26-17) [2] [http://www.deuter.com/US/us/bike/giga- bike-80444.html](http://www.deuter.com/US/us/bike/giga-bike-80444.html)

<comment><USER24> I have a Stratos 24 (medium I think).

I second the removable waist straps. This would change the character of the backpack entirely.

I've been using it for about 5 years now, and it's a great backpack, but the straps drive me nuts. They are great when on a bike, but they get in the way a lot in other situations.

The other thing is that the vent on the back makes the main compartment a bit difficult to store things in. The back isn't flat, so the main compartment is kind of curved. The back panel is basically a really flat peak, like the roof of a house. I like to keep things in the top pockets, but they make it really hard to get stuff out of the main pocket once they get a bit of stuff in them.

Also, the side pockets don't work particularly well with water bottles. They are tilted a bit toward the wearer, and I've found that this tends to cause them to eject water bottles if you are leaning forward at all while running/jogging/riding a bike.

It looks like bag has been substantially redesigned in the past 5 years though, so they may have fixed these issues.

On the plus side, the bag is very durable, and it is very comfortable when using the straps. The integrated rain cover is nice if you are using it as a commuting bag, since I'd never consciously pack my own rain cover.

The venting on the back does help keep a bit cool, but it's not enough to prevent my back from getting all sweaty if I wear it on a hotter day. It's nice if you want a frame in a small backpack, but I'd avoid it myself next time because it makes the backpack pretty large for a given amount of storage, adds weight, and makes the main compartment harder to use.

<comment><USER23> I bought mine less than a year ago. The main compartment is still curved, I can imagine the 24l version to be too small. Any laptop larger than 12" might get an issue also in the 26l version.

I have a similar experience with water bottles: a typical 1 litre aluminium bottle (e.g. Sigg) hardly fits in the side pocket, so it's always a struggle to squeeze it. Once it's in the pocket, though, the risk of falling out is nil :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> I've been using booq's previous Daypack for almost three years now ([http://sm.pcmag.com/pcmag_uk/news/b/booq-mamba/booq-mamba- da...](http://sm.pcmag.com/pcmag_uk/news/b/booq-mamba/booq-mamba- daypack_wjuw.jpg)).

I bought the current model but I'm not very happy with it, so I'm still using the old one.

</comment><comment><USER26> Northface Recon, bought it outta highschool in 2010, and its still going strong, it sees daily use with a 15incomp/notebooks/books/chargers. I've taken it camping as well. Cant complain.

On a side note, i was in a class where the subject of backpacks came up with the girl next to me, I noted to her that everyone adjacent from her had the model bag. Tried and Tested. :)

</comment><comment><USER27> My everyday carry is the daypack from an Osprey Farpoint 70:

[http://www.ospreypacks.com/us/en/product/farpoint-70-FARPNT7...](http://www.ospreypacks.com/us/en/product/farpoint-70-FARPNT70.html)

Nice laptop sleeve, roomy main area, a couple pockets, it behaves exactly like a day pack should, I never notice it's part of a set.

When I travel, the main pack is my luggage. Three continents and a dozen countries, it's a great bag. The way the day pack can attach either to the back of the main pack or clip to the front for a chest carry is fantastic. Build quality is completely solid. Last set of travel gear I ever expect to purchase.

Edited to add: the way the straps on the main pack can be zipped up into a panel to make the outside shape sleek and duffel-like is a godsend when the main pack goes under a bus or gets checked on an airline. It even has a side handle that gets a lot of use for lifting and carrying. Really well thought- out design.

</comment><comment><USER28> I received a Everki Titan [https://www.amazon.com/Everki-Checkpoint- Friendly-18-4-Inch-...](https://www.amazon.com/Everki-Checkpoint- Friendly-18-4-Inch-EKP120/dp/B005LMWP78/) from a friend of mine after he no longer needed a backback which could hold a 17"\+ laptop. I use it as my mobile office for PC repair. Surface Pro 3, tools, cables, adapters, flash drives, and a Canon PIXMA iP100 for printing invoices.

Everki stopped making it a few years ago and have replaced it with the Beacon [https://www.amazon.com/Everki-Backpack-Console-18-Inch- EKP11...](https://www.amazon.com/Everki-Backpack-Console-18-Inch- EKP117NBKCT/dp/B002WOBBVO/) which I'm considering seeing as how my bag is finally starting to fall apart.

Or maybe I'll go big and get the GoRuck GR1 that was suggested in this thread :)

</comment><comment><USER29> [https://www.incase.com/shop/bags/incase-icon- pack/black/](https://www.incase.com/shop/bags/incase-icon-pack/black/)

Bought my first one in 2007 and the zipper only gave out last year. Bought the current version soon thereafter.

I ride the bus and I love the side pockets that give me easy access to my pass. I pack a laptop, two books on average and a lunch. There are all kinds of isolated compartments for things like legal documents, battery packs, and e-readers without opening the main two compartments. The laptop has its own compartment. There's little pocket on the very top for your phone.

I don't think this bag can compete with others when it comes to storage space, but it will take the best of them when it comes to user experience. The placement of some of these pockets/ compartments is very well thought out.

<comment><USER30> I had a similar model and the zipper broke as well due to putting shoes in the main compartment. It was just barely too small. I did like the bag, but definitely only good if you intend to carry a few things around.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> I've carried a FAST Pack Litespeed from TAD Gear[1] almost everyday for the past 3 years. Before that I was mostly using various larger backpacks and a Timbuk2 messenger. The Litespeed has held up really nicely. I use it for both work and whenever I go hiking or camping. It nicely fits my MacBook Pro 13" and my daily things.

My main concerns with purchasing it were the price, I believe I paid $245 plus an additional $60 for the OP1 pouch[2] to go along with it, which I find quite expensive. Another concern was whether it would look too "tacticool" but I can say that in all black and without a bunch of patches all over it I think it just looks like a normal backpack. I was also originally concerned with the weight, its quite heavy empty, but after having used it for years I can say it isn't an issue at all. The padding on both the back area and the straps, combined with a design that seems to fit my body perfectly along with good adjustability, results in it being extremely conformable carrying even heavy loads (40-50lbs) over long periods of time (7-8 hours). Overall, its just a great backpack.

I've also used some of the larger Osprey[3] camping packs and those have been great too but are too big for my everyday needs.

GoRuck[4] and Mystery Ranch[5] make great packs as well.

[1][http://store.tripleaughtdesign.com/FAST-Pack- Litespeed](http://store.tripleaughtdesign.com/FAST-Pack-Litespeed)

[2][http://store.tripleaughtdesign.com/OP1-Pouch](http://store.tripleaughtdesign.com/OP1-Pouch)

[3][http://www.ospreypacks.com/us/en/](http://www.ospreypacks.com/us/en/)

[4][http://www.goruck.com/](http://www.goruck.com/)

[5][http://www.mysteryranch.com/](http://www.mysteryranch.com/)

<comment><USER32> TAD makes nice stuff, but I think pretty much everyone will immediately recognize that as a tactical style backback, even if it's black.

However, if you don't care then there's nothing wrong with it. My normal backpack finally wore out, so I've been carrying my Mystery Ranch Assault Pack to work.

I'll probably find something a little more civilian looking, but until then it's a great backpack.

<comment><USER31> You're right, I probably should have just said its not too tactical for my taste. It definitely won't be suited for everyone's style though.

I wouldn't mind getting a more minimalist backpack but I've gotten so used to the comfort my current one offers. Many of the more stylish backpacks I see don't seem particularly well made or durable and the strap systems don't seem nearly as comfortable.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Just bought an Osprey Flapjack this week ([https://www.amazon.com/Osprey-Mens- FlapJack-Backpack-Black/d...](https://www.amazon.com/Osprey-Mens-FlapJack- Backpack-Black/dp/B00RZV486O)) and I'm very impressed. It's pretty compact, holds a laptop and a few notebooks very snugly, but still has various pockets for pens, chargers, wallet, phone, sunglasses and other small stuff.

As a Mainer I have been using LL Bean bags of various types all my life, and have several which are great, but they tend to be roomy "bookbags" and it made me nervous that my laptop and things were flopping back and forth in that big space. I'll still use the LL Bean bags for hiking, the gym, and so on.

</comment><comment><USER34> I have a couple of backpacks. My recent favorite has been the Qwstion Simple Bag: [http://www.qwstion.com/en/bags/simple-bag-washed- black.html](http://www.qwstion.com/en/bags/simple-bag-washed-black.html)

It is not fancy - just literally a bag with two almost stringy straps. No fancy compartments except a small pocket type thing inside and a small zip-up pocket outside. The straps also double as a drawstring to close it. I like it because it expands easily to fit everything I need - laptop + charger, synth, gym clothes, lunch, whatever. The strap is also attached in such a way as to let you easily switch carry mode - eg it can quickly go from a backpack to a tote bag.

</comment><comment><USER35> I have a timbuk2 classic messenger large. For work it holds a 15" laptop easily plus charger, lunch etc.

I also walk alot, and use it for errands. I often fit a weeks worth of groceries in there. Have brought it traveling etc. I've had it since 08 and still in good condition.

</comment><comment><USER36> Used to carry a backpack, but picked up the Thule Gauntlet[1] just over a year ago now, and it's terrific. High quality water resistance. Super minimal design that keeps things light and easy to pack. Favorite part is the hard shell that does a great job of protecting my stuff from daily abuse. Comes in 13" and 15". I carry around my laptop, charger, small notebook and pen, hardware wallet, and extra USB wall charger. Have plenty of room to spare.

[1] [http://www.bestbuy.com/site/thule-gauntlet-attache-case- for-...](http://www.bestbuy.com/site/thule-gauntlet-attache-case-for-15-apple- macbook-and-macbook-pro-black/1902096.p?skuId=1902096)

</comment><comment><USER37> What's good and light for a bike but will still protect my precious laptop if I get hit by a car (again)? I can deal with breaking my arm more than disintegrating my laptop.

For walking around, I am disappointed that so many backpacks are so damned heavy!

</comment><comment><USER38> Here is one I recently bought from Amazon Basics ($29.99)

[https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Backpack-Laptops- Up-17-I...](https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Backpack-Laptops- Up-17-Inch/dp/B00EEBS9O0/)

\- Large multi-compartment backpack with a padded sleeve for laptops

\- Holds up to 15.6 inch laptop and some ultra-slim 17 inch laptop

\- Mesh water bottle pockets at side

\- Organizational compartments for pens, keys, and cell phone Internal Dimensions: 12" x 4.5" x 17.5" (LxWxH); External dimensions: 15" x 7" x 19" (LxWxH)

\- Large multi-compartment backpack with a padded sleeve for laptops

\- Mesh water bottle pockets at side

\- Organizational compartments for pens, keys, and cell phone

</comment><comment><USER39> I got a RiutBag, which has no outer zips. It's pretty neat. It's well made and sturdy, and holds more than you'd expect.

[https://www.riut.co.uk/](https://www.riut.co.uk/)

</comment><comment><USER40> I have a booq[1] (not this specific model, my model is older has it is black/red but this is very similar) and I've been extremely happy with it. I bought it like 4-5 years ago, it has served me extremely well, I used it extensively for 3.5 years for nearly everything imaginable under all weather conditions. It was a great product, deserved every penny.

[1] [https://www.booqbags.com/collections/macbook-laptop- backpack...](https://www.booqbags.com/collections/macbook-laptop- backpacks/products/boa-shift-15-inch-laptop-backpack)

</comment><comment><USER41> I've been using the same Axio backpack for the last ~15 years. When I bought it, they gave lifetime guarantee. It still holds perfectly well after all this time, nothing broken. My MacBook Pro 15" fits well into this backpack by the way.

I wonder if they still create backpacks of the same quality with lifetime guarantee. Could be bad for business :)

My backpack looks quite a bit like this one: [http://www.digitalrendezvous.net/2008/06/08/urban- roaming/](http://www.digitalrendezvous.net/2008/06/08/urban-roaming/)

</comment><comment><USER42> SwissGear Valve for the past 3 1/2 years. Got it for $30 from a Newegg Flash deal. It's held up surprisingly well and it fits everything I need without being ridiculously bulky: 15" MBP, ATH-M40x in hard shell case, iPad, stylus, spiral notebook, dot grid notebook, tiny travel router, battery charger, extra AA batteries, and my external trackpad + keyboard when I need them.

[https://www.amazon.com/SwissGear-Valve-Tablet-Backpack- Lapto...](https://www.amazon.com/SwissGear-Valve-Tablet-Backpack- Laptop/dp/B004MF0YFA)

</comment><comment><USER43> I got 3 backpacks.

One large one which I bought for Scouting almost 25 years ago. It still works. I don't know what brand it is. It cost about 150 EUR.

I got two smaller ones. Both can easily hold a 2-3 kg MBP, and a lot more. Ones an Eastpak with lifelong warranty. It cost nearly 100 EUR. Another ones a ThinkPad backpad from around 2007 or so, also cost similar price. Both are awesome. The only disadvantage the ThinkPad one has, it screams 'I contain a laptop' ie. 'rob me!' My gf uses the ThinkPad one.

I bought an e-reader raecently cause I CBA to carry large books around anymore.

</comment><comment><USER44> I've been using an older version of the Swiss Gear Pegasus backpack (the one with the side pockets that stick out [0]) daily for the past ~12 years. I don't know WTF they made this thing out of, but it refuses to fall apart. Interior volume is slightly too small for a weekend trip, but it's more than adequate for going to/from work.

[0]: [http://www.staples.com/SwissGear-Pegasus-Laptop-Backpack- Bla...](http://www.staples.com/SwissGear-Pegasus-Laptop-Backpack-Black- Blue-17-inch/product_634619)

<comment><USER45> I don't use my Swissgear backpack anymore [1], but I actually did wear mine out and sent them a friendly email and they sent me a brand new one, free of charge, and I got to keep the old one, too. Customer. for. life.

I currently use a GORUCK GR1 and it is bombproof. It is my work and play backpack. I drag it through literally mud and over rocks on weekend climbs/hikes/trail runs, wash and dry it in front of a fan in time for the work week. But I do wish it had more affordable organizational options.

1\. Because I often have to climb through tight places for work, and the Swissgear was pretty bulky and didn't compress well.

</comment></comment><comment><USER46> Timbuk2 Classic Messenger bag

[http://www.timbuk2.com/classic-messenger- bag/116-4-3827.html...](http://www.timbuk2.com/classic-messenger- bag/116-4-3827.html?category=best-sellers)

\- Compartment for laptop

\- Loads of room for chargers and Macbook Pro dongles :-)

\- Lots of zippy bits and stretchy cargo nets for sorting stuff

I find the messenger bag config is better for my back. I always used to wear a backpack with the strap on one shoulder, and it was definitely affecting my back & shoulders. This is much better and pretty comfortable, and I carry a ton of stuff in my bag.

</comment><comment><USER47> I have an Osprey Metron 25, which is great for commuting by bicycle.

Their lifelong warranty is excellent. They sent me a new waist strap, free of charge, after I had lost the original one. They also sent me new buckles a couple of times. Of course quality could be better -- why do these buckles keep breaking? But communication with their repair shop was always excellent. The guy quickly managed to find fitting straps and buckles despite the backpack being out of production. Probably they discontinued the pack because of its flawed design that leads to broken buckles.

</comment><comment><USER48> Was using a Tom Bihn Brain Bag. I recently moved to an eBags Professional Slim - it's incredibly versatile and organized. (tablet compartment, pocket for files, zippered organization, crush resistant compartment for charger, stow one or both shoulder straps, luggage handle passthrough both horizontal and vertical, etc)

[http://www.ebags.com/product/ebags/tls-professional-slim- lap...](http://www.ebags.com/product/ebags/tls-professional-slim-laptop- backpack/249582?productid=10454271)

</comment><comment><USER18> I carry the Jansport Night Owl. Jansport isn't a fancy company anymore but their bags are still "buy it for life" and very good quality. In particular this bag has really nice pockets for my laptop and ipad and I've taken it on weeklong trips to conferences as my only luggage (ymmv, I am able to get by on very little).

Link: [http://www.jansport.com/shop/en/jansport-us/night- owl-t70g](http://www.jansport.com/shop/en/jansport-us/night-owl-t70g)

</comment><comment><USER49> I'm currently interchanging daily between the Waterfield Vitesse and smaller Waterfield Cycling Musette.

[http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/our-favorite-messenger- bags...](http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/our-favorite-messenger-bags/#day-to- night-commuter-bag)

Great for subway commuting, and great for casual situations too. Both bags give me good options to fit my 13" and 15" MBPs. No lifetime warranty, but they're well built.

I do have a GoRuck that I use when I need something more robust.

</comment><comment><USER50> I've got a Thule Covert DSLR backpack and it's the bomb. Seriously if anyone is in the market for a backpack with dedicated space for a camera I can't recommend it highly enough.

<comment><USER15> I like this - the issue I have with a lot of dedicated camera bags is that is screams "steal me! I have a lot of expensive things in here!".

This bag doesn't do that (~covert~ gives that away I guess but still!)

</comment></comment><comment><USER51> I have problems with my back and I tend to overload my backpacks which is a bad combination. So I use a backpack big enough for everyday purposes but small enough to prevent overloading. It is waterproof and has an extra "pocket" for notebooks. It can also be worn together with a suit or coat.

[0] [https://www.blackleaf.com/de-DE/Levis-Commuter-Flapover- Ruck...](https://www.blackleaf.com/de-DE/Levis-Commuter-Flapover- Rucksack/bl3340490.htm)

</comment><comment><USER52> After buying a lot of backpacks, I settled on the 5.11 12 hour RUSH as a good compromise in size. It is just large enough for my Dell XPS 13, or probably most 11-12 inch laptops. Plus it has a lot of organizational features and flexibility. I can take all of the organizing pouches out of the bag and attach them to the outside of the backpack if I need extra space.

[http://www.511tactical.com/rush-12-backpack.html](http://www.511tactical.com/rush-12-backpack.html)

</comment><comment><USER53> I carry a "SteeSeries" gaming backpack, made by PORT [0], it is huge, and could fit my large laptop, tablet, books, large earphones and clothes with no problem.

The build quality is above average, but for the price it is great.

[http://www.portdesigns.com/Portal_Upload/Images/catalogue/pr...](http://www.portdesigns.com/Portal_Upload/Images/catalogue/produits/005305/4/202381-steelseries- BP-3.jpg)

</comment><comment><USER54> I have the Lenovo Y Gaming Armored Backpack B8270. Why? It fits any laptop and has a properly padded separation just for my laptop. Water resistant, which is a big plus in London. [http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/itemdetails/GX40L16533/460/D97E...](http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/itemdetails/GX40L16533/460/D97E18F8D28D4E88B89AEB5102F1AF44)

</comment><comment><USER55> I use a Victorinox backpack.

Spacious, water-resistant, separate laptop compartment with plenty of padding.

Can't find the exact model since I purchased it a while ago, but this one comes close:

[https://www.victorinox.com/global/en/Products/Travel- Gear/Ba...](https://www.victorinox.com/global/en/Products/Travel- Gear/Backpacks--Messengers/Deluxe-Laptop-Backpack/p/32388001)

</comment><comment><USER56> The RUSH 12 from 5.11:

[http://www.511tactical.com/rush-12-backpack.html](http://www.511tactical.com/rush-12-backpack.html)

<comment><USER57> Been using the same bag for 4 years. Still looks like its brand new.

</comment></comment><comment><USER58> [http://www.amazon.in/Samsonite-Luggage-Vizair-Backpack- Elect...](http://www.amazon.in/Samsonite-Luggage-Vizair-Backpack- Electric/dp/B007UJ4TJ2?tag=googinhydr18418-21&tag=googinkenshoo-21&ascsubtag=6d520874-881b-4305-b897-3943e433d648)

Special things I found 1\. Lot of compartments 2\. Shock absorbers at bottom part to protect laptop 3\. Color highlighting and design

</comment><comment><USER59> Thule Paramount! (29L) - [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MHNPQ16/](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MHNPQ16/) ($115)

Flap-top with side-access zippers. Carries my 15" rMBP in a padded pocket, has a decent selection of mesh pockets, rubber hooks for attaching a bicycle rear- light, and fits under an airplane seat.

</comment><comment><USER60> Alienware Orion 17.3-Inch Backpack [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001GI5CSA](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001GI5CSA)

I got it mid 2011 when I got my Alienware M11X.

Best backpack I've owned in my life PERIOD

It's still going strong.

Would highly recommend.

I don't use it to carry my laptop though....

That is relegated to an old school thinkpad laptop bag. This thing must be 10+ years old now and still in great condition.

</comment><comment><USER61> The Côte & Ciel Isar Rucksack.

I've been using this daily, traveling abroad and short commutes for the last 3 years and still looks like new and even been complimented by the design which is weird for a backpack.

[https://www.coteetciel.com/en-US/isar-backpack-black- melange...](https://www.coteetciel.com/en-US/isar-backpack-black-melange- laptop-bag)

</comment><comment><USER62> An old 30 litre Alpkit bag that now seems discontinued, similar to this:

[https://www.alpkit.com/products/gourdon-30](https://www.alpkit.com/products/gourdon-30)

I have a large Grid-It inside so smaller items don't get lost:

[https://www.cocooninnovations.com/grid.php](https://www.cocooninnovations.com/grid.php)

</comment><comment><USER63> I started with a Port Designs backpack offered by the company I work for and I cannot imagine living without it.

This is the most comfortable bag I ever had and I can carry my 10" tablet and 15" laptop easily.

[http://www.portdesigns.com/products/houston- backpack-15-6-_5...](http://www.portdesigns.com/products/houston- backpack-15-6-_5114.html)

</comment><comment><USER64> YNOT medium Gulper (made in Canada)

Can fit a lot of stuff in this and has very few straps and zippers. The liner is great - I can keep my wet rain gear separate from the stuff in the main bag. I use it for daily use and travel.

[https://www.ynotmade.com/en/shop/gulper/?sku=5436](https://www.ynotmade.com/en/shop/gulper/?sku=5436)

</comment><comment><USER65> [http://www.carryology.com/reviews-2/road-test/road-test- bore...](http://www.carryology.com/reviews-2/road-test/road-test-boreas- bolinas/)

I carry a boreas bolinas around most days. It works. It's a bit overbuilt for going to and from the office but super comfy when I have to walk across town with a laptop.

</comment><comment><USER66> I've been using a SnigelDesign Specialist Small for a couple of years now. Very high quality, insulated bottom, PALS webbing for adding more pouches.

Using it every day.

[http://snigeldesign.nordicshops.com/product.html/small- speci...](http://snigeldesign.nordicshops.com/product.html/small-specialist- backpack--10/11/12)

</comment><comment><USER67> I use a Chrome Soyuz for its water resistant laptop pocket and tough construction. Unfortunately Chrome no longer manufactures this bag. [https://www.amazon.com/chrome-2011-soyuz-laptop- black/dp/b00...](https://www.amazon.com/chrome-2011-soyuz-laptop- black/dp/b0046bx6fk)

<comment><USER44> I have this bag and absolutely hate it. All of the compartments other than the laptop sleeve are precisely sized to be as useless as possible. It's also ridiculously heavy for its tiny volume.

Just out of curiosity... how do you pack yours? I've tried repeatedly to get used to this bag, and I just can't find a way to use it that works for me. The main compartment is so tight that any sort of jacket or sweater gets wrinkled instantly. God help you if you ever want to throw in a sandwich that isn't in a steel box.

<comment><USER67> I put my laptop and all cords plus maybe my phone in the water proof pocket. The front zip pocket I reserve for bandaids, money, and maybe a notebook. I put small stuff in the front pockets such as earbuds or mice. Inside I pack a jacket, external hdd, soylent, platypus water bottle, and other large items.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER68> I have something like the Ogio Renegade RSS[0]. I'm not sure the exact model but it looks like that one. I received it for free from my last job and it is amazing. The best backpack I've ever had.

[0] [http://ogio.com/backpacks/renegade- rss](http://ogio.com/backpacks/renegade-rss)

</comment><comment><USER69> Approx 7 years ago I bought a cheap no-name backpack in a supermarket. I needed it for a short journey and thought that I trash it after that trip. It turned to be so good, that now I use it everyday, also during walks and cycling.

It's still in good shape, I just had have the zippers fixed. I guess fixing was more expansive than backpack. :)

</comment><comment><USER70> I had a GORUCK GR1 (26L) until my car was broken into.

I'm now bagless, and looking for a replacement.

The Tom Bihn Synapse 25 is at the top of my list.

<comment><USER71> Get the Synapse and with the cache on rails accessory for your laptop. It's an amazing bag.

</comment></comment><comment><USER72> I have used various Marmot bags for quite some time. My current Marmot bag is: [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B0VY4G8/ref=oh_aui_sear...](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B0VY4G8/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

</comment><comment><USER73> Berghaus 24/7 pack: [http://www.berghaus.com/twentyfourseven%2B-30-rucksack/42142...](http://www.berghaus.com/twentyfourseven%2B-30-rucksack/421429.html)

Bought a new hiking ruck/daysack so this one is now my daily laptop bag / carry on for travelling.

</comment><comment><USER74> I use an ARC'TERYX ARRO 22 for years. Water proof. Good for carrying a laptop.

[http://www.arcteryx.com/product.aspx?country=jp&language=en&...](http://www.arcteryx.com/product.aspx?country=jp&language=en&category=Packs&model=Arro-22-Backpack)

</comment><comment><USER30> I use a backpack on an almost daily basis. I currently use the Aer duffel pack. I won't try to sell you on it except to say that I am happy with the bag. Here is the product page.

[https://www.aersf.com/duffel-pack-00001](https://www.aersf.com/duffel- pack-00001)

</comment><comment><USER75> I have several backpacks, none really suited well for my job. I need to carry my laptop through security checkpoints every day. Wish I could find a pack that was minimal (few compartments, zippers, latches and other trimmings). Basically I would like a backpack that can hold a laptop and not much else.

</comment><comment><USER76> I carry the Fjallraven Kanken backpack variant with the laptop sleeve.

These are pretty good bags. They seem to have become ubiquitous in Vancouver.

[http://www.fjallravencanada.com/kanken- laptop-15-inch.html](http://www.fjallravencanada.com/kanken- laptop-15-inch.html)

</comment><comment><USER77> Been using the Patagonia Chacabuco for a long time now. But it's a bit unruly. Now I'm using the Timbuk2 Q - [http://goo.gl/rLxToZ](http://goo.gl/rLxToZ)

Slimmer, much more manageable. Course all I throw in there is a Dell XPS 13 and a book.

<comment><USER78> I'm happy with my Chacabuco/32L and can't even remember how long ago I bought it.

Use it for: \- city use, \- "pack dad" use (carry extra jackets for my children), \- day hikes, \- carry on bag \- ski bag (carry stuff on downhill ski trips)

Have thought about trying to do an UL overnight backpack trip with it for kicks.

Have taken it back once to Patagonia for free repairs, and another time for a free replacement of some plastic gizmo that fell off.

Nit picking: \- The elastic shockcord doesn't work right for me - it seems more cosmetic and doesn't really cover the rare use case of wanting to, say, quickly strap on some sandals on the back and know they don't fall off (they did..).

<comment><USER77> I've used the shockcord netting to hold my bike lock... But then, I've found that the Chacabuco was not my bike bag of choice after a couple trips. Replaced it with a hand-me-down CamelPack for exploration and panniers for daily commutes.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER79> Black Star Bags in Portland, Oregon makes the best backpacks I have ever seen.

They custom-made one for me for my laptop, external monitor, cables and peripherals, cannabis paraphernalia, etc.

They were really, truly awesome. If you live anywhere near Portland (or even if you don't), they're worth checking out.

</comment><comment><USER80> I have a Herschel "Little America" ([http://shop.herschelsupply.com/collections/backpacks/product...](http://shop.herschelsupply.com/collections/backpacks/products/little- america-backpack-navy-1))

</comment><comment><USER81> [https://www.victorinox.com/global/en/Products/Travel- Gear/Ba...](https://www.victorinox.com/global/en/Products/Travel- Gear/Backpacks--Messengers/Vertical-Zip-Laptop)

</comment><comment><USER15> I've been using my Timbuk2 messenger for about four years now and it's bomb proof. It's been through every type of weather, and on every trip I've taken.

The only complaint I have is that it wants to fall forward instead of sitting up rigid/straight.

<comment><USER82> It could be the weight distribution inside your bag or the strap might be a little loose? I use a Timbuk2 and don't have the same problem as you. The last one I bought I learned they're only "water resistant" even though I've taken mine in downpouring rain and everything stayed dry.

</comment></comment><comment><USER83> Have a Swiss from work.

Also have another laptop bag that I've replaced 3 times in 10 years - at no additional cost. Definitely never paid attention to the warranty before.

Also have an Eddie Bauer backpack that I got at Target 10 years ago. Still going strong (not used for laptop)/

</comment><comment><USER84> I have a Trager backpack. I've had it for about 14 years -- originally purchased it to carry all of the pages I was photocopying for my psychology classes. It has outlasted a number of other backpacks that I've picked up over the years.

</comment><comment><USER85> Yes, I have an OGIO backpack and recently bough a second one for my partner. They are durable (looks like new after 4 years of cycling commute under British weather!), practical and they look nice enough.

It feels like they will last a lifetime.

</comment><comment><USER86> The only backpack I own is this:

[https://hakshop.com/products/tactical-edc-bag-for-wifi- pinea...](https://hakshop.com/products/tactical-edc-bag-for-wifi-pineapple)

Fits what I need into it.

</comment><comment><USER87> Chromebags, they've been on my back for over ten years now, and I still own and use the three I've bought over the years. The only drawback is that they never wear out, so you have no real excuse to change!!

<comment><USER15> Have you ever looked into Mission Workshop bags as well?

I was pretty set on a Chrome Bag, but I stumbled upon Mission's bags (iirc they are founded by the same people)

They're all great though!

</comment></comment><comment><USER88> I use a 5.11 Rush 24 Backpack, very useful, so strong. [http://www.511tactical.com/rush-24-backpack.html](http://www.511tactical.com/rush-24-backpack.html)

</comment><comment><USER89> mandarina duck, i cant find the link on their website, perhaps it's a fake as i bought this in china or perhaps it's a regional backpack. i carry both a macbook air 11 and macbook pro 13, i can put all my cables, dongles, and other stuff with ease, sometimes i carry my ipad mini 2. the build quality is great, straps are well padded, the aesthetics are great, italian designed, waterproof, has pockets on both sides so that you can put water bottles. i own a lot of backpacks, but this is my favorite. post here if you want me to add a pic somewhere

</comment><comment><USER90> _Here are list of backpacks mentioned with price and link to Amazon_

GoRuck GR1 $128 [http://amzn.to/2ies4lj](http://amzn.to/2ies4lj)

The Frye Logan $332 [http://amzn.to/2j98jLJ](http://amzn.to/2j98jLJ)

Lenovo GX40L16533 Y $69 [http://amzn.to/2j9dXgF](http://amzn.to/2j9dXgF)

Peak Design backpack $289 [http://amzn.to/2ilwPrN](http://amzn.to/2ilwPrN)

Patagonia Refugio 28L $125 [http://amzn.to/2jl0Ar9](http://amzn.to/2jl0Ar9)

Ibagbar Canvas Backpack $36 [http://amzn.to/2j8hkUL](http://amzn.to/2j8hkUL)

Osprey Strato $105 [http://amzn.to/2j9k2tm](http://amzn.to/2j9k2tm)

Deute $119 Giga Bike [http://amzn.to/2j9ggQW](http://amzn.to/2j9ggQW)

JanSport Hatchet Backpack $69 [http://amzn.to/2j9kNms](http://amzn.to/2j9kNms)

Thule Covert DSLR Rolltop $194 [http://amzn.to/2j9djQs](http://amzn.to/2j9djQs)

Filson Rucksack $350 [http://amzn.to/2ilNNWH](http://amzn.to/2ilNNWH)

Cannae Legion Elite Day Pack $140 [http://amzn.to/2j2qr7j](http://amzn.to/2j2qr7j)

Cote & Ciel $435 [http://amzn.to/2jx7f0D](http://amzn.to/2jx7f0D)

Alienware Orion $70 [http://amzn.to/2j9lrQO](http://amzn.to/2j9lrQO)

Timbuk2 messenger $69 [http://amzn.to/2jl2QPc](http://amzn.to/2jl2QPc)

Ogio Renegade RSS $149 [http://amzn.to/2j9nHYt](http://amzn.to/2j9nHYt)

FAST Pack Litespeed from TAD $149 [http://amzn.to/2j9gqYG](http://amzn.to/2j9gqYG)

Northface Recon $89 [http://amzn.to/2ii3ZVJ](http://amzn.to/2ii3ZVJ)

Everki Titan $169 [http://amzn.to/2j9ulxX](http://amzn.to/2j9ulxX)

Victorinox backpack $120 [http://amzn.to/2jx4tZp](http://amzn.to/2jx4tZp)

</comment><comment><USER91> this one is on my "to get someday" list:

[http://palmerandsons.ca/shop/no-18-rucksack](http://palmerandsons.ca/shop/no-18-rucksack)

or possibly this:

[http://palmerandsons.ca/shop/no-03-s-suitcase](http://palmerandsons.ca/shop/no-03-s-suitcase)

p.s. one of the reason I like them because of their 'ethos':

[http://palmerandsons.ca/company-ethos/](http://palmerandsons.ca/company- ethos/)

</comment><comment><USER92> sea to summit ultra-sil day pack

68g, 20L, silnylon

[http://www.seatosummit.com/product/?item=Ultra- Sil%26reg%3B+...](http://www.seatosummit.com/product/?item=Ultra- Sil%26reg%3B+Day+Pack&o1=0&o2=0&o3=377-36)

Possibly my favourite of my many backpacks. It scrunches up to the size of a clementine, making it an ideal secondary bag to keep in one's main bag when travelling. It can be worn under a jacket to inconspicuously carry a laptop in areas with pickpockets.

</comment><comment><USER93> Goruck GR1 for everyday, goruck GR2 when I travel on airplanes.

[http://www.goruck.com/](http://www.goruck.com/)

</comment><comment><USER94> I have a Pro Limit backpack for 10 years. The same backpack. I'll replace it soon. It has some scratches, but it is really good for the age.

</comment><comment><USER95> I carry an LL Bean Commuter Ballistic. Has some really great organization features along with being able to handle 2 15" MBPs with ease.

<comment><USER32> This is pretty much perfect. I looked at like 50 bags and this one's the one I wanted. Unfortunately, they just discontinued it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER96> Currently a cheap Held MC backpack. I doubt that it will last for long, but there are some good ideas here what to look for next.

</comment><comment><USER97> Switched out my backpack to a briefcase from linjer.co. It's really clean, functional, and the leather is aging really well.

</comment><comment><USER71> Tom Bihn Synapse 25 with their Cache on Rails accessory for my laptop. Made in the US with quality materials and workmanship.

</comment><comment><USER98> An eastpack shoulder bag, enough space to carry a book for the commute and a water bottle during summer.

</comment><comment><USER99> i've got a berghaus dart 40 backpack that i've had for at least 15 years. it still gets use at least one a week to lug groceries. it's starting to fall apart but probably has a few years left in it.

</comment><comment><USER100> A North Face Hot Shot I got at goodwill for $20

</comment><comment><USER101> Various Jansports. Lifetime repair warranty

</comment><comment><USER102> Osprey Daylite for daily use.

For travel, I use carry-on packs that would allow for, say, a 2-week trip to Europe or SE Asia.

1\. Osprey Farpoint 40. All-around favorite. It does everything well, although having slightly less volume. I don't mind because it overpacks well and helps keep total weight in check. Give me a 45L pack and I tend to overpack it and push carry-on limits. Great straps, good suspension, good hip belt (but not quite as good as Tortuga and certainly not better than the MEI).

2\. Tortuga Pack v2 (v3 out now, but think v2 was much better). Until the Farpoint, this was my clear favorite for me. Very comfortable. Not flashy or good-looking, but really effective. v3 is considerably heavier and looks very nice (maybe too nice). I don't want my pack to look like I bought it from a Prada store. I prefer the rugged utility look of Osprey. Best at having quick- access pockets.

3\. PacSafe VentureSafe 45L. If you're going somewhere where there is no safe in your room or you worry about pack slashers, this is the pack. Its basically like carrying an emergency safe that will protect valuables while you're out of your room. Not as supportive as Osprey or Tortuga, though (weaker straps, no suspension, and weak hip belt). Really good pack in every way but a little lacking in comfort and quick-access pockets.

4\. Minaal v1. I hate saying anything bad about this company because I love upstart companies like Minaal and Tortuga. The pack is better IMO than the Patagonia Headway for comfort and support, but its not very stiff. You have to pack it carefully. Put a tablet in the back when overpacked, and you'll worry the tablet is bending. I don't use mine anymore. Totally ineffective hip belt BTW.

5\. I've tried Patagonia's Headway carry-on and the Tom Bihn Aeronaut. While they are nice packs, they don't distribute weight very well and can become uncomfortable pretty quickly. No suspension. Weak straps and hip belts. I wouldn't want to walk long distances with them. Bought both and returned them.

6\. Haven't tried the GoRuck, but I understand they're quite heavy (good materials, well-built). I don't see better storage options than the Osprey. People love them, however. Or at least, they seem to love the company. I place a premium on added weight, so I probably won't ever buy one.

7\. I have an MEI Voyageur, and its without a doubt the most cushioned pack I've used, but its so close to exceeding carry-on limits, you risk overpacking it and having it checked. And if you underpack it, the pack tends to sag and support diminishes. I don't use it anymore.

8\. Timbuk2 Aviator. This pack is so close to excellence. Unfortunately, way too small for me (35L or something), but its a good stiff pack, good straps, good pockets, and extremely well-built. All makes for a very comfortable pack. If this pack was, say, 42L, it would be a very close competitor to #1 and #2.

</comment><comment><USER103> Samsonite Vizair

</comment><comment><USER104> Briggs and Riley.

Best ever.

</comment><comment><USER105> The Frye Logan [0]

Very expensive (~$450) but looks great and is extremely well made, I plan to carry it for many years to come.

[0] [http://www.thefryecompany.com/logan- backpack/d/42724](http://www.thefryecompany.com/logan-backpack/d/42724)</comment>


How to objectively follow news / politics? - <AUTHOR> So I am in the time when I am growing up, making up my mind about what is important to me.. etc.
Atleast in my country I noticed there aren't any "objective" newspapers. Either they are right or left leaning. Behind every news I can see some ulterior motive.
It would also be possible for me to not follow anything and just live my life in my own little bubble? Any tips ? <comment><USER2> In times of crisis and too much information, I tend to just read real "news papers" (well, in a digital format).

The quality difference to online journalism is incredible. That isn't an indictment against online journalists, since it is just the sad state of their industry and I think it just might not be possible to convey accurate news on the same day. If you want researched facts, you will have to wait at least a few days. And it often isn't just facts alone, but you require a larger context to put the info in perspective.

Classical journalism still makes a good job here, although reading different editors is still a good idea.

> Behind every news I can see some ulterior motive.

In online journalism I think that is mostly decided by readers. Especially controversial topics get a lot of hits. Guess which topics are going to be on the table for articles next week? If you think an article is basically just a troll, you shouldn't click it. I often make the same mistake, even if I just want to read the comments.

There are better and worse papers, but I don't have any specific recommendations for the anglosphere.

</comment><comment><USER3> The media is big business and for that reason every avenue tends to follow the preferences of the financiers. You might want to research the principles of "critical thinking", once you have some skills with that you can take news from both the left and right and make up your own mind.

In general, bad news sells, so there tends to be a lot of fear mongering. You could decide on what aspects of life, society and your community are relevant to you and filter out all the non-relevant news.

</comment><comment><USER4> Study history!</comment>


Being Your Selves: Identity R&D on Alt Twitter - <AUTHOR> https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2020/01/23/being-your-selves-identity-rd-on-alt-twitter/ <comment><USER2> I think most people make alt identities not through some sense of exploring self, but to make sure they don't get "cancelled" in real life based on some post that goes viral and generates outrage.

<comment><USER3> I've been thinking similar lines for some months now, and wondering if anyone has setup a "find me here if deplatformed from there" type of site or something?

something like about.me with one nickname, that lists twitter, tube, insta, mastadon, keybase, pgp key, etc etc

I almost think it would need to be available on the main web, but also cloned on a blockchain like history on the dark web in order to be truly useful..

It's gotten to the point where I am avoiding services (like anchor.fm) because building a water cooler crowd is useless when you can be deplatformed in a split second without notice and without recourse..

If we had an unstoppable about.me, maybe append only lists like securescuttlebutt? or something out there, and people knew to go looking there, I think this would be beneficial.

<comment><USER4> > something like about.me with one nickname, that lists twitter, tube, insta, > mastadon, keybase, pgp key, etc etc

Wouldn't that just make cross-service deplatforming easier? "hey, $serviceProvider, that person said $offensiveThing on $differentPlatform. I'm outraged that you provide a platform to such vile individuals"

<comment><USER3> well yes, but I think it's going to make it easier for the not-so-tech-savvy to find more.. the doxxers are going to find all that an more to wage a whine campaign - so might as well make it easier for the non-haters to find other places to engage.. hopefully there will be services that are impossible to shutdown in the list - of course that will vary by region and issues I would think.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> This article does a great job of articulating the principles of identity which I've been teaching to my daughter ever since she's been old enough to understand what a Twitter account is. Even though social media is banned in our household, I've laid out a few ground rules that must remain sacrosanct for the sake of basic safety.

1\. Your "real" identity - the one to which your "real" phone number and Social Security number are linked - is for banking, buying a house, trading stocks, paying utility bills, e-commerce, car registration, life insurance, and so on.

2\. Never do or say anything online that would reveal your "real" identity in any way. There's a surprisingly broad spectrum of activities which might reveal your identity. Don't take selfies next to your (or my) car. Don't take selfies next to home. Better yet, don't take selfies at all. Don't geotag anything. Don't "check into" places. Don't mention your first name. Don't be telling anyone about your real birthday. Build an impenetrable firewall between "the internet" and your "real identity", and keep it in good repair.

3\. All identities other than the "real" one are throwaway. Use a different e-mail address, phone number, and name for each website. Never use the same pseudonym more than once.

4\. Don't tell your real-life friends anything about your "other" identities. Don't use social media under your "real" identity. This way, the two can never be linked.

5\. Don't be afraid to periodically "pull a _why" on your pseudonymous identities. The forest of "yous" will grow thick and lush, and will need a preventive burn every now and again in order to avoid an uncontrollable conflagration later. Delete what you can; abandon what you can't. Move on and move up.

6\. If you ever feel compelled to make an exception to the rule, come talk to me before you make the decision. Chances are that I'll be able to hear you out and make a convincing case against breaking rules 1-5.

Ever since I've come up with these ground rules, I've slowly wound down my own social media presence. I have set up an alter ego under which I'm conducting my open source and other online activities. When asked why I don't use my "real name" GitHub for anything but work, I say that this is my way of keeping things separate for the sake of sanity and safety. People nod their understanding, but they don't really get it, and that's okay. They can't possibly get to know every side of me.

<comment><USER6> Wow, as long as you're ok with your daughter being an outcast among her peers.

And I can't help but feel like an effective serial killer wrote that post.

<comment><USER5> Your "outcast" assertion is unsupported by facts. It turns out that not everything happens on social media. Within a group of friends even a single person who isn't on Twitter/Snapchat/TikTok/etc tends to pull the entire group's narrative away from those platforms and into the domain of a more private tool, such as iMessage or WhatsApp. Within the Gen Z cohort the understanding is crystallizing that social media is toxic, addictive, and leads to nothing but bleak and depressing thoughts. This commonly understood truth enables people like my kid to act as an anchor that keeps numerous others on solid ground and away from the jaws of "big social tech".

And thank you for the "serial killer" comment: I'll take it as a compliment.</comment></comment></comment>


Irrational By Design - <AUTHOR> http://www.commonsense4commonpeople.net/2009/09/irrational-by-design.html

<comment><USER2> It seems to me that in making this into some sort of drama filled, "wow - didn't expect that" story, the simple facts and inherent drama got lost. For me, a simple, straight-forward account of the insanity of the situation would've been more effective.

Simple story telling - a lost art?</comment>


When America Was 'Great,' Taxes Were High, Unions Strong, and Government Big - <AUTHOR> http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/when-america-was-great-taxes-were-high-unions-were-strong-and-government-was-big/407284/?single_page=true <comment><USER2> It's worth noting that Trump has also in the past supported an extra tax for the rich, and he currently seems to support universal health care. Not all of his policies are quite as insane as the image he clearly wants to project.

I'm not saying he'd be a good president (his paranoid racism should disqualify him in the eyes of any sane voter), but there is some room for nuance here.

</comment><comment><USER3> No mention of how Europe was a smoldering ruin and China was basically emerging from feudalism

</comment><comment><USER4> yes and let's dig a little deeper, about how the perpetuation of union activities basically sunk and drove out companies and killed cities and towns as a result. See Detroit and East St. Louis for details.

<comment><USER5> Lol</comment></comment>


Helsinki Tries Self-Driving Buses in Real Traffic - <AUTHOR> http://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-think/transportation/self-driving/helsinki-tries-selfdriving-buses-in-real-traffic <comment><USER2> These "buses" are actually about the size of a minivan (9 persons fit in), they travel on a route with not much frequent traffic at a maximum 11 km/h, and there is always an attendant monitoring them, although he/she shouldn't need to drive.

They were trialed at a housing fair last year; there they traveled in a closed area not open to other vehicles.

Finnish law does not state anywhere that a vehicle must have a driver, so this trial is legally not that challenging.

It might turn out to be challenging technically; the local metro was supposed to be driverless now (like Docklands Light Railway was almost 30 years ago) but that has been postponed indefinitely, and is a partial reason for a delay in the extension of the metro line to the west which even has its own "is it already ready" page akin to BER airport [3] and which messed up e.g. my public transport connections.

The following links [1], [2] are in Finnish but there you have some more pictures of the things.

[1] [https://forumvirium.fi/itseohjautuvat-robottibussit- helsingi...](https://forumvirium.fi/itseohjautuvat-robottibussit-helsingin- kaduille-sohjoa-hankkeessa/)

[2] [http://yle.fi/uutiset/tassa_ne_tulevat_suomen_ensimmaiset_ro...](http://yle.fi/uutiset/tassa_ne_tulevat_suomen_ensimmaiset_robottibussit_kurvasivat_helsingin_liikenteeseen/9099002)

[3] [http://www.onkolansimetrovalmis.com/](http://www.onkolansimetrovalmis.com/)

<comment><USER3> > there is always an attendant monitoring them

I actually highly question the efficacy of this approach. Humans are good at driving (for some values of "good") partly (imho) because it is an active task. As soon as we enter the "monitoring" zone, and not actively engaging in the task, it is very easy to become quickly bored and have attentions wander and miss important details, like getting too close to other traffic, veering the wrong way, etc. This is not the fault of the person doing the monitoring being bad at their job, but rather simply how humans work, and this needs to be taken into account when designing systems that are automatic but "require human monitoring."

Really, humans are better at the active task, and computers are better at monitoring, but we are constantly trying to reverse these roles, sometimes to dangerous effect.

<comment><USER4> Forgetting that this is a bus, it is still a confined space containing members of the public. You need an attendant of some sort to deal with unusual situations (ie fires). Even the most advanced and sensor-filled Disney ride still requires a human being to monitor the behaviour of the other human beings.

<comment><USER3> That is true. I've used the computer controlled metros in Paris often enough and there don't seem to be too many problems but I suppose there are guards around. As for buses, I find there are two cultures, either the bus driver has some amount of responsibility for what happens on board his vehicle, answering commuter questions, announcing stops, checking tickets etc., or he completely dissociates, and just drives, sometimes not even being the one to check your ticket. In the latter case you tend to have a lot more theft no buses. (In my limited experience. I'd love to see data on that, actually.. although the distinction is perhaps a bit hard to define.)

<comment><USER2> There's always the concern about calamitous fellow passengers.

This story concentrates on women suffering from perverts, but I expect that most life-threatening violence is, as usual, experienced by men.

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/will-the-night-tube- pr...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/will-the-night-tube-protect- women-against-public-transport-perve/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> "Their purpose is to supplement but not to replace"

The social behavior where person X lies because it's expected of them, and everyone else pretends to believe the lie is...odd.

</comment><comment><USER6> Do we really need buses that go 7 mph? Bikes, anybody? Walking? (Or are these buses intended for the elderly?)

<comment><USER7> Helsinki can get as low as -30C in winter. I don't know if you've ever experienced it, but if it's -15, -20C or lower, you really don't want to be walking or cycling anywhere, the cold just bites through any clothing and it's really uncomfortable on your face.

<comment><USER2> In -20C, I prefer biking to buses. (I live in Helsinki region).

You generate some heat when you ride, while when waiting for a bus...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Do these need sensors to detect and adapt to icy roads in Helsinki?

<comment><USER9> You would think so, as even snow messes most selfdriving setups right now. Because of legislation, Finland is actually aiming to be the foreground of testing for these kind of environments. "Lapland Proving Grounds" is building a own highway in Lapland, just for test purposes.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> 7 mph is pretty limiting. You can literally run to your destination faster.</comment>