Why can't I down mod? - <AUTHOR>

I have 160 karma.  I can't find the rules anywhere. <comment><USER2> I think that nowadays it needs to be 200.

<comment><USER3> i'm at 250 and can't downmod.

<comment><AUTHOR> I think there is also a time limit. Like 200 karma in the last yr or something.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> What's the hurry?

<comment><USER5> Maybe it's just curiosity.

I've discovered I can downmod some comments (though I haven't yet), and not others. That gets me thinking about things like "What are the rules? At what point do I get the ability to downmod articles? Is it all relative to the karma other users have?"

. . . but it's just idle curiosity (for me, at least). The only time I've honestly, earnestly wished I had the power to downmod submissions was when the front page was full of the most banal possible Erlang articles, to the point that even good Erlang articles couldn't get to the front page. The rest of the time, the fact I lack the ability to downmod submissions just makes the place feel a lot more laid-back than other places, even while the fact I know the HN members with the most activity over the longest time can downmod submissions makes me feel better about the ability of the community to police itself than places that only allow upvotes for _everyone_.

I think, if I were to implement something like this, I'd probably try grading on the curve. Maybe the tenth percentile would be able to downmod comments, and the second percentile would be able to downmod submissions -- or vice versa. Maybe I'd make comment downmodding a privilege based on relative karma, and submission downmodding a percentil cut-off. I'm not sure. I'd want something that grew organically with the community, though, rather than eventually being 98% of the community because most people have been there long enough to have 200 points and the remainder are newbies and lurkers.

edit: That ended up being much longer than I expected (thanks to rambling off into speculation about what I'd do with a new discussion Webapp).

<comment><USER6> You never get the ability to downmod articles. I've got 8000+ karma and still can't.

I believe that you can't downmod comments that are on a thread that you've responded to. This is to prevent pile-ons, where debates get so heated that people just downmod all opposing POVs that they don't agree with. Similarly, you can't downmod comments that are more than a day old from the user page, to prevent people from downmodding all comments of a person they don't like.

<comment><USER7> I wonder if there's any provision against first downvoting then replying - I'd rather not downvote someone just to the this and I couldn't find any trace of that in the source code. But then again, my Lisp-fu is far from perfect, I might have missed it.

<comment><USER5> Actually, I appear to have the ability to downvote both this comment of yours (which is in discussion following my comment above about "curiosity") and the comment just before my "curiosity" comment, so I don't think the "can't downvote something in a subthread to which you've replied" hypothesis holds much water. It seems, however, that I can't downvote the immediate response to my comment by the guy with 8000+ karma. This may mean that immediately following responses and/or people with 8000+ karma aren't within range of my downvote capabilities.

<comment><USER6> It's probably immediate responses. I can't downvote either yours or DrJokepu's responses, but I can downvote this comment.

<comment><USER5> Excellent! I think we've figured out the mechanism for prohibiting comment downvotes.

. . . unless it's more complex than it at first seems. I don't really have the LISP Fu yet to figure it out from the source.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


A $5000 Chair - <AUTHOR> http://battlehardened.wordpress.com/2012/02/07/a-5000-chair/ <comment><USER3> It wasn't the chair that cost $5K. It was the lack of the most basic possible written employment agreement.

<comment><USER4> Who was going to write that agreement ... The lawyer they were hiring? Please, their biggest mistake was doing business with an attorney at all. I've made that mistake before and had the same experience where the "big deal" was always one meeting away. 3 years later and this d-bag lawyer was in my office letting me go (I hired him). Lawyers are like hired killers, unless your hiring them to kill someone else, your the one who's gonna get axed.

<comment><USER5> The fact that you hired _and then failed to fire for three years_ an employee of a given profession does not translate in any way to a general advise to never do business with lawyers.

It DOES, however, translate to a general advise to think hard about what skill sets your startup needs, and when.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> "How can you honestly not remember this guy's name" - A commenter from the original post.

This comment makes me think about whether this story is even true. I'd say it probably isn't based on that one statement alone. How can the guy not remember the lawyer's name? He has emails exchanged and the guy supposedly stole money from him. I like to forget negative stuff, but I can assure you I would remember this guy's name.

<comment><USER7> It could just be a way to side-step calls to 'out' the guy.

<comment><USER8> Why lie? It doesn't obfuscate the story any more than just saying 'not his real name'.

<comment><USER7> Well, it could be a combination. Maybe he doesn't recall the name off the top of his head, and he's not going to dig it out of old emails because he has no intention of 'outing' the guy.

<comment><USER6> It could be but it isn't likely.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> At first, I read this and thought to myself -- "charming, but they didn't really pay $5K for the chair, so much as for their lack of proper legal documentation."

Then I thought on it a bit more and realized -- it _was_ the chair that cost them $5K, because if they hadn't established the paper trail via the e-mail chain about giving the chair back, they wouldn't have had the hangup on 'without prejudice'.

Be careful with email, folks. In the end, that _is_ your paper trail.

<comment><USER10> Isn't there something about email not being strong evidence in a trial because it is way too easy to fake? At least in Euroland, a lot of things still run on fax for that very reason.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> One of the lessons I've learned in my startup life (2 years) was to never deal with people who aren't competent with execution - what's the right thing to do, how to reason about it in a logical way, how to do it, how to finish it, contingency plans, etc.

"Try him out for the junk drawer job in the startup — CEO" is a terribly easy mistake to make, when you're still at early stage with nothing to show. I've done this for almost all the positions in my previous companies - programmers, "product" guy, all the way up to the CEO and investors look-alikes, and I regretted it every time.

When my CEO was still a business school student of a certain prestigious university, I thought he's well connected and would be a valuable partner later. The company did well for a time - but mostly besides him. Once he took over the reins, everything went downhill and the company never came back to its former glory - despite the CEO's claims of "funding is near", "I'm good friends with <insert big name here> and he'll cough up $50k without a blink" for a full 2 years. Every time I called him out for non-performance, he plays the "CTO is not a team player" card. But I believed him, for 2 years - all the way until he badmouthed his partner - me - to his friends right in front of my eyes. And for quite some time I actually thought I should keep the company breakup somewhat secret. Silly me.

Bad "product" guy... got him because he's a friend and he looked somewhat experienced. Ok.. now we've agreed the product would do this and that, now draw me something please? Uhh... wtf is that? He stayed for a few months, was fired, but caused the company some trouble after that.

Bad programmers.. went through quite a few of them, mostly contracted. Some even from big named universities with very impressive looking resumes. Again, hired them because of a sense of urgency (e.g. need to demo X to VCs soon!), so I lowered my bar to what I thought I could get. Wrong - those ended up wasting time rather than contributing.

At the end of the two years, I think I must have went through 2 dozens of people, co-founders included. Of the 2 dozens, only 2 of the choices were right - one programmer, one junior product guy. The others are all a waste of time.

If I were to do a startup again, I'd be super careful at picking who I work with. PG's advice at getting a co-founder? Yes it's definitely needed. But trying to do something investors like while sacrificing quality? That's the #1 startup mistake to make, IMHO. Don't do that.

<comment><USER12> > Bad programmers.. went through quite a few of them, mostly contracted. Some > even from big named universities with very impressive looking resumes

This is baffling to me. We hired some graduates from big named universities and I am constantly amazed at their incompetence. Now they don't lack enthusiasm and are good talkers but not great doers.

We also hurried and hired because we had large contracts coming up and management has slipped and fell into the trap of "well one experience programmer left, we can hire 3 graduates to replace him for about the same salary!". I don't mind that we grow and train our own but these are not a replacement for a experienced engineers.

<comment><USER13> >We hired some graduates from big named universities and I am constantly amazed at their incompetence.

I experienced the same exact thing due to my ignorance of programming. I wanted to launch an idea that a friend and I came up with, but neither of us knew how to program. A friend of a friend attended a top university for CS so we assumed he competent. Two-three months after joining us he had not done much except write code full of bugs and didn't understand the concept of OOP. He had some half-assed PHP scripts written; that's about it. When I confronted him he said "it's too hard, I can't do what you guys want." Well, needless to say we were both upset because we pretty much wasted 3 months. I was so frustrated one day that I decided to look up some PHP tutorials and see if I could fix his code. Well, after a couple tutorials I felt pretty comfortable and said "screw his code, I'll write my own." Three months following that (puts us to about a month ago) and I finished nearly 75% of the coding for our website and I feel pretty good knowing that I was able to do what this guy said couldn't be done (also knowing he has a CS degree and I don't).

I learned that you can't pass responsibility to anyone during crucial times unless you truly know that person's abilities , or if you know the basics well enough to keep tabs on that person (who hopefully knows more than you).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> They got rid of an asshole for a mere $5k. I've seen people pay 100x more than that in extreme cases.

A great bargain!

<comment><USER15> I see no reason whatsoever to suppose this guy was an asshole. He may have been mistaken about what he could bring to the table to be a part of this startup, but that doesn't make one an asshole.

As 'wheels' says in another comment: he did some work and now that there is money, he thinks it is reasonable he gets some payment for that work. The amount he asked for is reasonable as well.

<comment><USER16> The article says they "bounced ideas off him". That usually has a cost if a lawyer is involved.

So he did do some work as you say, it ended up costing them.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> To anyone more familiar with the law: is this the type of thing that could be recovered later?

I think the lawyer was smart enough to ask for an amount that he'd be okay with, but kept it small enough to make paying it easy enough to not warrant the startup being distracted.

But say the amount was more and the amount was low enough to pay the guy off, but high enough to be concerned about. Maybe you still pay it right away because you have to in order to get your funding, but is there any case law that supports recovering this money later on because the startup was essentially held hostage by the lawyer?

It seems fairly reasonable that a contract made under duress could not be enforced, or could at least be brought up at a later date.

<comment><USER18> As a general rule, money paid pursuant to a settlement agreement is gone for good. The bar for duress is pretty high--specifically, it usually (always?) requires a threat of bodily harm.

And, even if you could somehow prove a settlement agreement to be unenforceable, what would be the point? For one thing, you'd cancel the release of liability you obtained. And secondly, you already performed your part of the agreement (paying the money). In general, I wouldn't see any benefit in this course of action.

<comment><USER19> This is right, I don't think duress is relevant here.

As a hypothetical, if the company hadn't already paid the $5k, just agreed to do so in the future, they could have some legal arguments for not actually paying after the round closed. See <http://www.lawnix.com/cases/alaska- packers-domenico.html>.

(Of course, that's talking about whether or not there's any tenuously- supportable legal argument. Back in the real world, they should obviously just pay him.)

IANAL. TINLA.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> It's interesting that saying "without prejudice" is a keyword for "I'll sue you later if it's worth my while". It seems like lawyers get a lot of power purely from that fact that our legal system makes no sense and they can just warp it against you at any time.

<comment><USER21> The legal System does make Sense, it's just too complex to be completely consistent.

Good lawyers are basically hackers of the legal System who work with (or around) These inconsistencies. Some use this power for good, others for bad ends.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Their real mistake was dealing with a lawyer in the first place. My dad told me years ago that you want to avoid dealing with lawyers at all costs, because most of them are vicious selfish sharks. Sure there are exceptions, but there are few, if any, occupations with as high a percentage of people like that in it.

<comment><USER23> "Of course I've got lawyers. They are like nuclear weapons: I've got em coz everyone else has. But as soon as you use them they screw everything up."

[Danny DeVito]

The problem is that an awful lot of people and companies will always involve your lawyers - if you don't get your own lawyers in those circumstances then you _will_ be screwed.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> Can someone please enlighten me on how to avoid this kind of situation? Is this because these guys didn't have any papers signed with the guy about him being a temp until they decide later?

<comment><USER25> Yes, that is the entire problem in a nutshell. They hired a lawyer and then completely failed to use him in a legal capacity.

On that note...they could potentially have a malpractice suit against him for his failure to advise them on something as basic as an employment agreement. We'd really need to know a lot more to know if this is the case.

<comment><USER26> I thought they hired a CEO who happened to have a legal degree and the ability to practice law in their state.

<comment><USER27> He filed their incorporation papers for them. Assuming he continued to do various legal things for them (they presumably didn't get an actual lawyer later) wouldn't he be effectively their counsel?

There are a lot of unknowns here, but I'm curious if you hire an employee who has passed the bar in your state, and they perform legal work, does that make them effectively your lawyer?

<comment><USER23> Even if it did it would presumably make them the companies lawyer - <USER2> "yours".

<comment><USER27> Sorry, by "your" I meant the company's.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> $5000 is a gross understatement of the actual costs at play. Drafting a full release can sometimes cost thousands of dollars, and the emotional toll and time-sink of negotiating the terms of release should also be considered.

The author was lucky it only took one phone call and that he didn't mention the cost of drafting up the release perhaps signifies it didn't cost him too much.

</comment><comment><USER29> I thought this was going to be a story about the Eames lounger or Le Corbusier haha. Know one too many Facebook designer friends that have them..

</comment><comment><USER30> I think the investor's lawyer was being overly cautious. Anyway, small price to pay for peace of mind. Always get a release!

<comment><USER31> Well, he has to prove his worth. If everything sails smoothly, people won't notice his value. If he caught something however small, he can justify his bill.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> Something I have come across when dealing with frustrated investors. I have heard it said since and it still gives me butterflies :/

Some more background on the term: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejudice_(legal_procedure)#Com...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejudice_\(legal_procedure\)#Common_law)

</comment><comment><USER33> Interesting story with a lesson to remember. But can anyone comment on how did his or investor's attorney find that email? Is it common practice to give attorneys full access to all your company's email accounts and then have them search through for any land mines as part of due diligence? Seems a little extreme and very labor intensive. And who pays for it?

<comment><USER34> In the comments he wrote:

Our lawyer was concerned about the possibility of prior claims against technology and the company. As we were relatively young he asked for a copy of correspondence that might fall into that category. So it wasn't that he went through every email in our in our inbox. We prescreened and the email from Bill was one we included in the package which we forwarded.

<comment><USER33> Thanks. I should have scrolled down to the comments before posting.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> I was expecting an interesting nugget of info. Too many companies employ someone to do something vague because they like the person. It rarely works out and then someone has to deal with the fallout. As loads of others have said, that was a relatively cheap lesson. People pay hundreds of times that amount to learn things sometimes.

</comment><comment><USER36> The "without prejudice" is phony storytelling. It sounds like they got a legal threat letter and ignored it.

Also, if this lawyer was good enough to get $5k for nothing, maybe they should kept him on. Or paid him a fair wage or equity for his work.

</comment><comment><USER37> He sounds prejudiced to me :-p

</comment><comment><USER38> Only three things are certain in life: death, taxes and lawyers behaving like a __holes.

</comment><comment><USER10> > _Damn. That chair just cost us five grand I remember thinking._

The chair was still only 99 bucks - what cost you only measly 5k was a lesson in "swimming with sharks" and why you do not frakk around in business matters and why a lot of things in business (sadly) work and run the way they do...

And chances are he understood the situation and was nothing but an opportunist and took advantage of it, so you woke those sleeping dogs - but your lesson should be: make sure such things cannot happen, make sure everyone knows and understands the terms and get things IN WRITING.</comment>


ArXiv vs snarXiv - <AUTHOR> http://snarxiv.org/vs-arxiv/

<comment><USER2> Nobel Prize Winner ( aka Ed ) goes to:

$("a:contains("+arxiv['title']+")").click();

<comment><USER2> Oops: Was going for the high score...

OperationalError: (1203, "User #### already has more than 'max_user_connections' active connections")

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Kind of like the Sokel hoax, but cross-bred with hot-or-not.

</comment><comment><USER4> Very easy, I got 8 out of 8 correct. Just choose the most boring sounding one.</comment>


Buzz Aldrin Is Evacuated from the South Pole After Falling Ill - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/01/world/buzz-aldrin-is-evacuated-from-the-south-pole-after-falling-ill.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fscience&action=click&contentCollection=science&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=sectionfront&_r=0 <comment><USER2> I saw that story earlier on the BBC website and considered submitting it, but thought it wasn't really relevant to HN.

Still, now that it's here I can recount a story. I mentioned the headline to a friend who replied: "Who's Buzz Aldrin?"

They were serious, so I was wondering - consider the general populace in a Western country. What proportion would you expect to know who Buzz Aldrin is?</comment>


Responsive Mode and Layout View in Firefox 15 - <AUTHOR> http://paulrouget.com/e/devtoolsupdate/

<comment><USER2> Interesting, but not sure how this is different than resizing the browser (save for the ability to see the current dimensions and jump to various breakpoints). Would love to see things like a resource calculator that could run a simulation of wifi, strong 3G, and weak 3G and let me know which resources are potential bottlenecks. Cool to see FF trying out dev tools like this.

<comment><USER3> _"Interesting, but not sure how this is different than resizing the browser..."_

I'm pretty sure it isn't any different, but it's great to have this built in to the Web Developer tools instead of having to use a bookmarklet/website/resize the whole browser window to do this.

<comment><USER4> Perhaps this only resizes one browser instead of every tab. That way the other tabs are still in the size you prefer browsing in.</comment></comment></comment>


Why startup founders should stop reading business books - <AUTHOR> http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2010/08/05/why-startup-founders-should-stop-reading-business-books/?utm_source=feedburner

<comment><USER2> I read this a little while ago (maybe on HN?) and I think that it is pretty spot-on, and applies not just to founders but to others as well! This said, the one thing I do really like out of some of these books are stories ABOUT founders, the kind of stories that capture the grit and work involved above and beyond and inspiration. Those kinds of examples as inspiring and encouraging - especially when detailing people who come back from failure to succeed!

</comment><comment><USER3> Title should be "Founders shouldn't read business books unless the books are highly likely to contain actionable insights regarding their business"

That's not very catchy, but very true.</comment>


Ask HN: How do I help my Indian coworker get a raise? - <AUTHOR> I have an Indian colleague who is smart, articulate, and very technically capable. His work products are excellent, and he's a delight to work with.
I recently learned that he has not gotten a raise in the time he has worked for our present employer, in spite of his increasing responsibility and consistent good results. When I probed him on why, and why he hasn't been negotiating for one, he explained to me that he is dependent on our employer for his visa. My understanding is that it's very challenging to both change jobs and stay in the USA under this visa due to the burden placed on the employer to get this visa.
Strategically, that puts him in a really bad negotiating position: ultimate leverage over your employer in this scenario stems from the threat (implied or not) that you might leave. This appears to be a trump card he doesn't have in his hand, as he wants to stay in the US.
What can I do to coach him to getting paid more? What sort of strategy can he use to show his value and demonstrate his leverage? <comment><USER2> Since you mentioned he is on a visa, there might be a few cases here:

a. He is on an L1 visa, which is highly restrictive (cant change employer). Here, there isn't much you can do to help until the company converts him to H1B (after L1 runs out).

b. He is on an H1B visa. If this is the case, ask him if his I-140 is approved. If it was approved for more than 6 months, he can safely change jobs without visa running out (new employer needs to sponsor for an H1B, but you can get indefinite 3 yr extensions). See if you can refer him to your friends working in other companies, or encourage him to apply for other jobs (since you think he is good at his job). Once he gets a competing offer, he will have the leverage to negotiate a raise or move to a new position.

c. He is on an H1B, without an approved I-140. If the company isn't filing one for him yet or delaying it, he needs to leave ASAP, or he will have to leave the US after 6 years on his H1B runs out. This is a very stressful situation to be in. The best you can do for him here is to refer him to another job where visa workers aren't being exploited.

As another Indian on H1B, I really thank you for your concern for your colleague. There are so many Indians out there stuck in bad work situations due to their perma-temp work visa status.

<comment><USER3> Wait that doesn't sound right. Unless H1B legislation changed drastically since I had one, you cannot change jobs "safely" on a H1B. You can change job if your new employer files a petition to hire you. This petition is almost always approved and not impacted by the CAP, but you need it to work for them.

Again, I'm not a lawyer and I was on this visa more than 10 years ago, so maybe a lot has changed since then. Can you link to official documentation explaining this?

<comment><USER4> > This petition is almost always approved and not impacted by the CAP, but you > need it to work for them.

I'm confused what you mean by "safely". The only way it could be safer than that is if there were no approvals required from anyone to transfer.

<comment><USER3> While a petition for a worker already in the H1B status is almost always accepted, there is still a chance that it doesn't work. There is a chance that it takes a long time to go through (usually a month or 2, but we're talking about the USCIS here :) ).

I changed employer twice with an H1B, and both times I made damn sure that the petition was approved before giving a notice (also, back then there was no official grace period, but I would have done the same).

<comment><USER5> My team hired a Chinese engineer a little over a year ago. It took almost 4 months for them to join after my lead first mentioned giving her an offer.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> This happened to a really talented Indian engineer on my team who was dependent on the company for her visa. Her work was stellar and she often worked 60+ hours when the rest of the team worked 40-50 regularly. Our manager was kind of a jerk who wasn't particularly fond of showing appreciation for ones work. Eventually I and several other people went to a new manager who was also Indian (I'm white, fwiw). She moved over a short time later and was promoted quickly. Obviously not everyone has this option so I would suggest you do everything you can to highlight your coworker's contributions.

Thank them for their help in standup, highlight their work in your 1-1s with your manager and tell them that you think this person deserves a raise or promotion. Tell higher ups that you think this person has been doing really well, etc. One thing that can be helpful is showing how much work that person did. In this case she compiled the numbers of how many stories, incidents and defects she closed relative to other people on her team, which showed her at almost double the average. Of course this is an imperfect metric and can be gamed, but having data is valuable. Good luck

</comment><comment><USER7> You should probably realize how unfair of a position your friend is in due to how poorly the H1B program is (assuming that's what he's on). Your company can send him back to India - make him leave the country entirely - on nothing but a whim. It hurts you, because you are in the same labor pool as him. Buy him a beer and watch cricket with him. That's about all you can really do. Vote for candidates who want to end this.

<comment><USER8> > Your company can send him back to India - make him leave the country > entirely - on nothing but a whim.

That is not true - h1b holders can switch jobs and transfer the visa to the new employer

<comment><USER9> Assuming the worker can find a new employer willing/able to handle the transfer.

<comment><USER10> And H1B/Visa Transfer getting approved.

<comment><USER11> This can be done confidentially. The old employer won't ever know you are trying to transfer jobs. Source: I was H1b in semicon.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I'm sorry if the below sounds harsh, but even in the best of circumstances, I can't come up with a better angle on this.

I don't think you are in a position to help your colleague. What you are suggesting would be a complex task even without the colleague having Visa.

Not complex in the sense that asking raise is complex, but complex in the sense that you would affect 1. the behavior of your colleague 2. how your employer values your colleague 3. how your employer assigns raises.

Your message does not give enough context to verify you could "coach" him. Coaching generally requires the experience of successes and failures in similar situations. If this is an unfamiliar situation to you, then you are in no position to coach him.

It's well-meaning, but at the same time a bit condescending to think that you can assist him by some techniques picked up at an internet forum.

In addition, based on what you told, you don't know if he already has asked for a raise, and been denied.

<comment><USER13> "but at the same time a bit condescending to think that you can assist him by some techniques picked up at an internet forum"

I don't think it's condescending to show empathy for, and attempt to learn how to help a colleague.

At worst, it's naive, because OP may not understand what a complex circumstance it can be - but I've worked with a number of Americans who do not understand work visas at all and have no intention of learning more. It's good to see OP asking; this industry could use more people looking out for each other.

<comment><USER12> I think you are correct, naive would have been a better word.

I was not trying to shame empathy, but I felt it would be cruel not to point out the difficulty of the situation. "Move fast and break things" does not apply when you have only one shot.

There are some situations (for example medical conditions) where a simple checklist approach can provide tremendous value. These are situations where most of the variables are fairly known, and none of the steps are likely to have bad consequences.

I don't think there is a good checklist unless someone has been in the exact position as the friend (same industry, same skill base, same visa, etc) and can come up with helpfull pointers.

<comment><USER13> Maybe OP's use of the word "Coach" instead of "help" is not great here, but I read this as a coworker trying to help an under-appreciated colleague.

I do not think promotions or raises are a "one shot" situation, and I don't think having an advocate on your team is going to result in bad consequences, not unless they force the issue or management is truly awful.

As to coaching/checklists - I don't think someone has to be in the exact same situation to help. Every good coach starts from zero coaching experience, and it's easy to advocate on behalf of a teammate. I've had a lot of help from lots of people with different backgrounds, skills, etc. in my career - I would hate for them to think they couldn't help me because they haven't been in the exact same position.

<comment><USER14> I think we're trying to avoid a situation where OP's advice to his colleague will be bad because OP has little experience with the myriad of things that need to be considered when dealing with job switching on a visa in the US. In that case, no advice and no coaching would be better.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> You don't say what type of visa your friend has, but if he's on a H1B, he (and you) should be aware of the reasons for its existence, and how it's abused.

"The H-1B visa program should help U.S. companies recruit highly-skilled aliens when there is a shortage of qualified workers in the country."[1]

"Examples of H-1B fraud indicators may include:

..There is a wage disparity between H-1B workers and other workers performing the same or similar duties, particularly to the detriment of U.S. workers.

..The H-1B worker is not performing the duties specified in the H-1B petition, including when the duties are at a higher level than the position description. "[1]

The H1B visa was designed to fill talent gaps but has been used to keep wages down. Your friend isn't the only one getting screwed.

[1][https://www.uscis.gov/report-fraud/combating-fraud-and- abuse...](https://www.uscis.gov/report-fraud/combating-fraud-and- abuse-h-1b-visa-program)

</comment><comment><USER16> Actually this is by design. If he has his I-140 approved, that means that the company has applied for his green card .

Now if the company gives him a promotion and that results in material change to his job duties, then the company has to restart his green card process .

Usually that implies trying to find an American for the job and convincing the government that they could not find a suitable candidate and they need to sponsor him at the newly promoted position.

Also that process for new Gc takes from 6-15 months and about 5-10K USD that no company wants to spend again for each promotion

<comment><USER17> I'm confused, couldn't you increase pay without changing the job duties?

<comment><USER16> Usually companies have bands for pay structures like Jr. Engineer - 80-100K, Engineer 100-120K. If they need to jump to a differnt band, you need to give him a promotion.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I'm sorry to say this but this is how business operates. When an engineer comes to his manager requesting a raise, they will think how likely the employee is to leave the company and how much they are willing to increase his salary to keep him there.

If he is on H1B he will be exploited because his bargaining power is low. If you are a citizen your leverage is much higher and you are more likely to seek more.

However, if your friend has not pushed for more, it is his fault. Sometimes, we must ask for more because honestly it is in our interest. Some businesses are better at giving raises to their top performers, others are hoping to save money because some employees will stick around anyway and maybe become lifers. If an employee delivers and negotiates aggressively during reviews, the employer knows this and might be more likely to give them annual raises. It is a game.

<comment><USER19> H1 is bad but if the visa is L1 this situation is worse. You don't even have the option to switch employers.

<comment><USER8> But it's a different intent visa. L1 is for workers of multinationals being brought to the US for a specific period of time.

You were already employed in a foreign country and get transferred to the US division

<comment><USER20> "the specified period of time" can be upto 3 years and can be extended for 3 more years.

It is significant enough to make a difference.

I have a colleague on L1 visa in US. His visa is from Capgemini and so, he can't even change project due to Visa restrictions

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> I'm on a H-1B visa, which sounds like the same visa your co-worker is on.

H-1Bs are permitted to change jobs, and if they are laid off from their current job they have 60 days to find new employment before having to leave the United States. Even if they have to leave, they can continue to job hunt remotely (really hard, I know) and if they get an offer they can return to the US on the same H-1B (no lottery). In NYC at least, medium to large employers are very happy to process the H-1B transfer paperwork because good engineers are in such high demand.

If your co-worker is as good as you claim he is, he should start looking for a new position. It's not as hard as many people think it is on this status. The main thing is to get beyond the mentality that you're beholden to your original sponsor - you aren't.

<comment><USER3> You also need to find an employer that understands how trivial it is to file a petition for a worker who already has an H1B. It is cheaper than paying a recruiter and the success rate of getting the candidate is much higher.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Can't help, just happy to hear that you care about your coworker, such a nice thing to do ;)

<comment><USER23> I won't be so sure. The post reads like someone's describing his own problem in 3rd person.

<comment><USER24> You're a delight.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Unfortunately this is very common when you're dependent on employer for Visa - I was once in his position myself... even found out that I was the lowest paid engineer in the team. My direct manager raised hell and I got a little raise but the damage was done. I moved on as soon as I got my green card... and founded my own company, never to be employed again.

<comment> 100-xyz I was also in this situation 25 years ago. I was 25% under the market. During the green card process, the visa official reviewing my application made the comment and they raised my salary! That's the world - people will screw you if they can.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> It largely depends on the actual visa your colleague is one. I suggest you learn more about his situation - it might be informative in understanding his worldview.

If he's on an H-1B there's only one thing _you_ can do for this particular coworker. Help him prepare for interviews and get a better job offer. He should be able to have his work visa transferred over to the new company in 5-6 weeks. There's no reason he can't ask for a raise too. I've done it, on an H-1B, and sometimes I've gotten it. No one's going to fire a good performer for asking for a raise, especially if the job market is good. But some people find that too confrontational - getting a better offer is easier, in that case.

(BTW, if the company is underpaying him, I'd encourage you to shop around a bit too. Maybe you aren't at market rate either?)

If he's on an L1 visa (i.e. transferred from an overseas branch of your company, rather than being hired directly) then I don't know if there's much you personally can do for him. He has to find a new job that pays more money, applies for an H-1B for him, and is willing to wait until October, which is when it starts. Or he can ask for a raise - see above.

If he has an I-140 in process, it's possible he wants to stick around until that's done (although what's the rush really? Indians applying today won't get a green card for 40+ years at current rates). If the company isn't doing that for him, or if it's already done, he has no real reason to stay.

<comment><USER3> > There's no reason he can't ask for a raise too. [...]. But some people find > that too confrontational - getting a better offer is easier, in that case.

Wait what? That's an interesting take because I think the exact opposite. I find that showing up at your manager's desk with an offer in hand is way more confrontational than just asking for a raise. Asking for a raise is cheap, it takes 15 minutes. If it's denied you can start a conversation around goals, how to get there, etc.

Showing up with an offer means that you already spent hours finding a new job and you're basically coming to the table with an ultimatum.

<comment><USER4> I think that means "get a better offer and leave". Ultimatums are considered a bad idea regardless of what your visa status is. For a person on an H-1B it's basically impossible because they can only make demands after their visa transfer is successful. But if they were to stay at their current employer after having a visa transfer approved, the other company is going to be (rightly) pissed off - not a smart move.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> I would think the person should ask for a raise or maybe what would need to be done to get a raise. I don't see how the visa status needs to play in to good old expectation setting. The boss might say "never" or they might surprise both of you and have a real reason. Something wild like, we barely meet payroll obligations now and we know we can't lay you off without you getting booted from the country so we pay you less to ensure your long-term employment here... not sure but as a general rule don't pretend to know why someone else doesn't get a raise. The reality can be surprising (good or bad)

Next you should advocate for the outcome you really want. "Fair and equal treatment of our visa employees". This you can champion without getting ahead of yourself. I tend to find that pushing for the principle can be better than the specific instance. If you win, you accomplish more than your original intent and you've done humanity and your workplace a good deed. If you lose, you can sleep at night knowing you tried.

</comment><comment><USER28> One thing that I don't see in the comments so far is pushing for collective bargaining or unionization. If workers are all looking out for other workers, you can establish salary minimums and make this sort of behavior unacceptable. Standing up for your coworkers is noble, and collective action is a great way to achieve that.

</comment><comment><USER29> Frankly, he needs to just ask for one. If denied, he should ask what milestones he should hit to get one. All this pontificating about unionization, visas, etc is noise as it pertains to the core of your question.

<comment><USER30> That's easy for you to say. Essentially, his ability to stay in the country rests on being well-liked by his employer. We have no idea if they're in any way vindictive or otherwise looking for a reason to push him out.

<comment><USER29> It's not easy for me to say. It's predicated on decades of going through the gauntlet myself.

You're correct. We have no idea where the employer stands, because he hasn't taken any action to find out.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> L1B and H1B are restrictive visas. When you change jobs life is difficult.

This gives employers a lot of leverage to overwork and underpay.

I feel sorry for your friend because I was in that position in Microsoft. Once I got my green card, I got a 75% raise by going somewhere else.

My advice would be for him to talk to his boss and explain his case. If the company really wants him then they'd give a raise.

It's really hard to get raises at an existing job. That's been my experience. Sure they'd level you up, but % increase is pretty meh. Switching jobs usually results in a higher % compensation.

</comment><comment><USER32> He needs to find a leverage. Start looking out and find a job which will transfer his Visa. That will help him to know his market value and gives options to ask for raise or join new company.

</comment><comment><USER33> Ask him if he has even asked for a raise. A lot of people negotiate in their heads against themselves to the degree that they don't even ask. In a lot of companies you won't get a raise if you don't ask but you will get a raise if you just ask. He won't get fired for asking. Worst case that can happen is to hear "no".

</comment><comment><USER34> There might be managers reading this thread who want to help, but can't offer a higher salary/different position for visa reasons.

Compensation does not have to be financial. As a foreigner, simply getting to live in the country I chose is already a form of reward.

Other things that would make a huge difference to the lives of immigrants like me are payments for things like children's education, healthcare, or permanent contracts. If money is too short, consider allowing them to have more time off to spend with family, or on side projects. Many people move country for more important things in life than money, and therefore some immigrants don't even perceive getting a "raise" or having "career progression" as a goal: instead, it's all about providing a better, stable, future for a family.

</comment><comment><USER35> Asking for a raise in a tactful way is something only your friend can do, best you could do is coach him.

That said, if you think that's never happening at your employer, then they have some options IF they're here on an H-1B. IANAL & I don't know anything about other visas either.

If your friend has a degree from a reputable US school and your employer is also reputable, they should have no trouble finding a new job and transferring their visa. GC applications may be redone as well, with the caveat that you don't hit H1 renewal after your previous employer revokes their application and the new one is approved. You could help coach them for interviews and with referrals, but that's about it.

There are risks involved in all these steps of course, so weigh the current salary with potential rise.

</comment><comment><USER36> The best chance you have to help him is if you become involved in the hiring process. Is your company currently having trouble finding quality workers? Do they they pay through the nose to recruiters for new placements?

If your colleague were to ask for a raise and imply that he'd be willing to leave the company without one (no need to commit to anything in a negotiation), and your company cannot identify the value he is providing then they may be persuaded by considering the cost of replacing him. If you are involved in the hiring process and explain how difficult it is to find quality candidates and how expensive the good ones are then that might help the company see that giving him a raise is the cheapest and lowest risk option.

</comment><comment><USER37> I would suggest that you talk to your manager and point out the excellent work your colleague has been doing and what a valuable team member he is. Tell the manager your colleague deserves a raise even if he's reluctant to ask for it himself, due to circumstances.

</comment><comment><USER38> \- He should understand his position carefully. There is a 60 day grace period between leaving an H1B and not needing a job. There are further tricks to get even more time. Push him to _really_ understand his legal situation by reading the law carefully or talking to a lawyer who understands this stuff well.

\- He can always search for a better job while employed.

\- Leverage is like poker. The facts are only half the game.

\- Although he can minimize the impact, it will always hang over his head as a migrant unless he gets a citizenship. It might be worth seriously considering other countries that offer much faster & secure routes to green cards/citizenship.

</comment><comment><USER39> Your coworker can and should ask for a raise. Your boss may say no, but no one gets fired for asking for a raise.

Either way, you should limit your helpfulness here. I understand how you feel, but your coworker's pay and your boss's desire to pay him are not your responsibility.

You will work with many underpaid and overpaid people in your career. Underpaid people will teach your kids and pick up your garbage.

If you want to help your coworker, put the energy into systemic change (donations, political activity, voting) rather than trying to take the steering wheel of his career. It may be less welcome than you assume (or he lets on).

<comment><USER40> Strongly disagree with this attitude, enough to think you may be trolling or playing devil's adovcate - please explain if not.

> _Your coworker can and should ask for a raise. Your boss may say no, but no > one gets fired for asking for a raise._

H1B visa abuse does result in people getting fired and their visas dropped for asking for a raise. No one will say that outright, but other reasons can be found after someone disturbs a stable situation.

> _Either way, you should limit your helpfulness here. I understand how you > feel, but your coworker 's pay and your boss's desire to pay him are not > your responsibility._

People should absolutely work together to help each other. If someone is being harmed because they lack protections or abilities that you possess, and you have the ability to remove or reduce that harm, I feel strongly that you have a moral responsibility to help.

> _You will work with many underpaid and overpaid people in your career. > Underpaid people will teach your kids and pick up your garbage._

Don't confuse the way the world is with the way the world ought to be.

> _If you want to help your coworker, put the energy into systemic change > (donations, political activity, voting) rather than trying to take the > steering wheel of his career. It may be less welcome than you assume (or he > lets on)._

Do both. It's true that this local situation is the result of larger systemic factors, but and individual has little power to make systemic change and great power to make local changes. You can't "Take the steering wheel of his career" but you can assume your coworker is being honest if he's asked for your help and be intentional to publicly compliment the good work he's done with the goal of being his advocate where he cannot do that.

<comment><USER33> "H1B visa abuse does result in people getting fired and their visas dropped for asking for a raise. No one will say that outright, but other reasons can be found after someone disturbs a stable situation."

I have never seen such a thing and never heard about it happening. I have only heard about people being afraid of it. But if your company really does this kind of stuff it's time to look somewhere else. it will be a miserable with H-1 or without. And it's very possible to change jobs H-1. Especially in big companies it's not a big deal.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> 1) first of all thank you for even thinking about this. In an environment of general negativity you even thinking about this is greatly appreciated.

2) the best course of action is for that person to look for a job, get an offer and then decide if they want to stay here and negotiate. If they have green card in processing, there are kinda SOL

3) as some others said, he should still ask. I'm a strong believer in: if you don't ask the answer is always no.

</comment><comment><USER42> Next time you're offered a raise, ask your boss to give it to him instead. Raises aren't quite a zero sum game, but there is a shared budget for them.

</comment><comment><USER43> There is a lot of discussion on the visa aspect, but not as much on the general advice relating to raises and promotions. Is he currently under paid for the position and responsibilities relative to others in the company? Or more generally to the market at large?

Another tip is to take credit for the work that makes a difference to the company, and in the bigger picture to be doing work that matters.

</comment><comment><USER44> Does your friend already have a master's degree? I understand the visa situation is somewhat better (though still not great) if you have an advanced degree. If he could pick up his master's degree on a part-time basis, that might help some, both with the current employer and with potentially getting work with a different one.

</comment><comment><USER45> I appreciate your effort and I am just sharing a piece of information I have, in the hope that it will help you strategies a good plan of action. I don't mean to discourage you with my comments.

I was speaking to an Indian guy who now has is US passport & good job in NYC. He came to US on an on-site assignment with TCS. He said that this is how TCS & all Indian companies work, IT companies in general.

When hiring fresh graduate(beginning) in India, the first requirement to start working is a passport. Then the chance of on-site is the carrot that they (company) uses to squeeze. If the managers sense that you are close to giving your papers to resign, they will say that you are in the top list. Plus these companies flood the h1b system with applications of all their employees. Basically the companies need a carrot to whip the employee and the ultimate is a green card, after which the employees are free and is a matter of time before they quit. If you are that valuable to them, then you they pay you well to keep you. So, the companies do everything to delay the green card process.

So, this is the system that he gamed to get his freedom and now his brother is close to getting his green card at Infosys.

This is the game.

</comment><comment><USER46> It depends on whether the person is on L-1 visa or H-1 visa. If L-1, I can't help. But if its H-1, In all probability, the guy is just afraid of interviewing outside. As someone mentioned below, changing job is tough but not very tough.

Please tell them to seek outside jobs.

</comment><comment><USER47> Very happy to share what worked for me, when I had a close Indian colleague who I felt was underpaid/under-appreciated.

Context: This is a technology company (3k+ employees) which offers a SaaS product to enterprise customers. I was part of the customer-facing account team (think: sales person, solution engineer, professional services team, and support team). The support team was often located in "low-cost centers" (such a euphemism!), such as India. My Indian colleague was on the support team, where often they would spend long amounts of time diagnosing customer issues. I was a solution engineer / "CTO for the customer" / technical account manager-type role.

After some informal phone calls & chats with my Indian colleague, I found out that he wanted to work more closely with the customer as a solution architect capacity, instead of just performing a more reactive support role. I was really excited to help him pursue this dream.

Here's some of the the advice I'd offer to others on how to help "level up" an undervalued overseas colleague:

* Have regular 1:1s with people you find valuable, from all over the organization. In this case, I spent several 1:1 meetings with my Indian colleague, getting to know personal information (what area of India he was from, what the food's like, what's the work-life like, what do you do for fun - soccer, etc). This helped ME build up empathy for who he is, who he wanted to be.

* Find out unrecognized skills — I found out that my colleague used to tutor other students on math & science when he was in university, and loved mentoring people, and was pretty good at ad-hoc presentations. I found out that our company often performs customer-facing classes about our products, to teach customers how to get the most out of the stuff they bough. My colleague was already so familiar with the product at a technical level, so I just had him practice presenting to me in a coaching session, where I'd pretend to be the customer. Later, I had him present a very focused topic to one of my trusted customers (it was something like, "Top 10 diagnostic tips, tricks & tools for Product X" \- showing off the various debug tools, logs, etc available). The customer LOVED it, and actually recorded the session to share around the company. I asked my customer to send me email containing feedback about my colleague's presentation. I got glowing feedback from the customer, which I forwarded to a large internal distribution list - "Check out this awesome presentation Support Engineer X did for Big Customer Y!" (+cc'ing my colleague's manager). The email thread got lots of good attention from "high visibility" people like sales & management, who are happy to see examples of people "delighting the customer". If you think about it, these people are 99% of the time dealing with the fall-out from issues, support escalations, and so on. Positive vibes are a welcome refreshment!

* Develop & be recognized fro subject matter expert (SME)-like skills: Several of my customers were concentrated in a specific customer vertical (e.g. "Media", vs "eCommerce"). My colleague didn't recognize it at the time, but he worked primarily with several large customers which were all in the same customer segment. As a result my colleague was very knowledgeable in a couple product areas specific to that customer segment, and that segment's challenges. I setup some internal "lunch & learns" where 2 people would present some of the use cases for which their customer is using a product, and share out any advice, gotchas, etc. For my presentation - instead of traditionally having the customer-facing solution engineer discuss the technical parts of the presentation - I asked my Indian colleague to co-present with me. When presenting, I would deliberately defer to my colleague for certain areas - to reinforce credibility & trust - but I also had him present the "advice & lessons learned"-part. Afterwards, he got SO MUCH positive feedback from internal folks. I made share to socialize & forward on this feedback around - greatly increasing the visibility of my colleague's name, way outside of his immediate group. From that point on, my colleague was known as an expert in that area, and would commonly be hit-up to answer questions, do presentations for other customers, etc.

* Be recognized as a human being. This might sound obvious, but the unfortunate truth is that in many USA-based technology companies, overseas colleagues can be pretty invisible to the "home office". They are often deliberately hired because their salaries can be lower; they are not physically present in the main offices where informal chit-chat occurs; culturally, there may be barriers like English language fluency, or even the spelling/pronunciation of their names. I made a point to learn how to pronounce my Indian colleague's name (and he even offered a "Westernized" nickname which he liked, which sounded like a cool rapper's name, so we just rolled with it!). In our team, we often had to go onsite with customers ("customer business reviews) - what we're working on, how the product is being utilized, etc. I made a point to include a "Your Team" slide - and it included the names AND PHOTOS of the members of the team aligned with the customer. Instead of boring corporate photos, I included photos with actual personality (e.g. my Indian colleague scaling a rock wall, or him and his family at a birthday party in India). These photos would always invite questions & comments from the customer, and my colleague would get some air time to talk about themselves. Really helped the customer get to know them (and avoid the pejorative, "get me someone who actually speaks English" attitude), and built trust both ways.

* Get endorsement from the people with the money. There were times when there were staffing changes, which might result in a customer-aligned support person to be moved to another customer. I would often give my customer a heads-up that there might be changes to the staffing - and I'd tell them, if you feel strongly about keeping Person X on the team aligned to you, please send me a "strongly worded email" asking to keep the person on your team and why. This would often result in the customer explaining how important person X is to their company, the impact they had to their business, etc. Very good stuff for internal managers to see.

THE RESULT

OK, so I've accidentally written a novel here, and you might be able to te tell I feel strongly about helping raise my colleague up. So what actually happened?

* I asked my Indian colleague to help out with a small professional service project for a customer, paired with a senior person advising along the way. This was outside of his typical role, and was OK'd by his manager (I made the sales person ask it, so it was more "unrefusable"). The project went very well, and again got great feedback from the customer.

* An "associate" solution architect role req opened up. Originally it was just for employees located in USA, not remote-friendly. I successfully petitioned that we TRY to do it as a remote-only position, and have my Indian colleague try it out for 6 months, and work with customers who already know & trust him. It worked great. As a result, my colleague got a job title change and a very SMALL pay increase. But since he was on the "revenue generating" team now, he got tons more visibility around the organization - his name was tied to various "high-five" emails and such.

* About a year later, a solution architect position opened in Boston - again, not remote-friendly. I asked my colleague if he'd be interested in the job & relocation - he said VERY INTERESTED, but that from his experience in India, it was nigh unheard of for the company to do that kind of transition. I made a point to speak to some of the highest level people I could find - basically telling the story of this skilled person who's personally recommended by some of our most strategic customers, who's looking to relocate for this role. "What can we do to endorse this move and make it happen?" I actually challenged an executive, I bet you can make this happen. It turns out, we got attention from enough of the right folks, and we were able to hire him in (along with all the legal / H1B stuff required for that) to the Boston slot. He got a huge salary increase, moved to Boston with his wife. I don't work at the company any more, but I stay in contact with my former colleague. He's super happy, and just checking out his Facebook photos, it looks like he's really into snowboarding & microbrewing now :)

</comment><comment><USER48> You can't do it. If your employer raises the wage, they'd rather hire an american, because it's easier. You can advocate for sensible immigration reform or for a stop to the H1B program which creates a permanent underclass of workers.

<comment><USER49> Is it still easier after they've hired the person?

</comment></comment><comment><USER50> Individual initiative doesn't go very far because business isn't a worker's meritocracy. What would go further would be you and your coworkers walking out until your colleague gets a raise. Watch how fast it happens.

</comment><comment><USER51> H1Bs are no different than [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slaves](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slaves)

</comment><comment><USER52> He doesn't have any leverage, that's the point of his visa.

</comment><comment><USER53> Is that a faang company? How about greencard status, is thst underway? Different companies offer help for transfer, so if you are in the bay area getting a competitive offer might help still.

<comment><USER54> Are you aware how long a Green Card application takes to be approved, and that you cannot switch employers once the application is underway? Take some time to talk to your colleagues from abroad and learn how fucked up the system really is.

<comment><USER26> You can switch employers 6 months after the I-140 is approved, which may take 6-18 months start to finish. A new employer will have to file a new application but can reuse the priority date (the "place in line") from the previous application.

<comment><USER54> You mentioned the rub yourself, the new employer will have to file a new application. HR will use the fact to their advantage.

<comment><USER26> For Indians it doesn't matter that the new employer has to file a new application. Indians starting the employment-based GC process face a 40+ year wait to get a GC. If this company doesn't file, the next one you work at will. Or negotiate the filing as part of your job offer.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER55> I guess the obvious needs to be stated:

If he hasn't even asked for a raise, that is the first thing to try.

Until that conversation has been had, nothing else matters, and he/you know nothing about the situation.

<comment><USER56> It's usually good to have some leverage to ask for a raise. If they don't normally give raises without anyone asking, it's unlikely they'll approve it. It also flags to the employer that this employee may be unhappy and to start looking for a replacement.

</comment></comment><comment><USER57> Hey you know what you can really do to help your friend? Work hard and become his boss, then give him the compensation he deserves.

</comment><comment><USER58> I don't think you can. The entire point of h1b is for employers to bring in cheap labor.

</comment><comment><USER59> you are assuming his visa issue is a bug, its a feature of h1b.

</comment><comment><USER60> Why does it matter that hes Indian?

<comment><USER61> It's very relevant because he's dependent on visa sponsorship by the employer and being Indian makes his visa sponsorship more challenging than if he were from another country with fewer people emigrating to the US.

<comment><USER62> It also makes the difference in the sense that the wait list from H1B to Green card is the toughest for Indians (and probably Chinese) compared to other nationalities due to the 7 % limit per country in terms of granting Green cards.

I think the wait for the lowest priority EB3 is like ~150 years as of now ?

I came back to India after working in USA on an H1B for 6 years due to the uncertainty. I do miss working there but not much can be done unfortunately.

We cannot do much that we are 1/6th of the world population , hopefully Green card limit will be raised at least to the proportion of the country's population (or some other logic that makes more sense). I have known a few people from Nepal and Bhutan working in easier jobs who are well settled there now. They got the green cards because they are smaller countries. Nothing they do is really high skilled but then these things can get subjective so i do not want to wade in that debate.

It took me 2 years to really negotiate my first salary raise and it was not a lot either.

<comment><USER63> Could you please talk more about your experience of moving back especially after 6 years of tech in US?

<comment><USER62> Not exceptionally good, now thinking of migrating to Canada. But that is because i do not have a big social circle, finding it difficult to get married in India too and just love nature and clean air a lot. It is the small things that make it difficult for me, the driving, the commotion but some people thrive in that scenario.

It is really a YMMV situation though. I know rich folks have some advantages in India (nannies, drivers, social status etc.) that they do not get easily outside. I do not think it is easy for someone who is introvert to adjust although big cities have changed a lot.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER64> I think the best option is to switch to a high paying company. Also, as an H1B visa holder, I don't think I'm underpaid according to levels.fyi. So it depends on the company.</comment>


Hacking Word-of-Mouth: Making Referrals Work for Airbnb - <AUTHOR> http://nerds.airbnb.com/making-referrals-work-for-airbnb/ <comment><USER2> "Before we coded any product, we built mechanisms to track and report our progress on our success metrics."

Fun. If all you care about is charts, this is basically an integration testing framework (kind of).

<comment><USER3> Sounds more like test driven market development</comment></comment>


Now you can find out if GCHQ illegally spied on you - <AUTHOR> https://www.privacyinternational.org/?q=illegalspying <comment><USER2> Misleading, because you're not going to find out now. This is clearly just a mailing list building effort. The button says "Sign the Petition", and the small print says "While these few details are all we need from you now, we may need more information from you in the future."</comment>


Your Credentials Are Holding You Back - <AUTHOR> http://blogs.hbr.org/cs/2013/02/your_credentials_are_holding_y.html <comment><USER2> I think university credentials are holding all of society back. For a thousand years, universities had little to do with making a living for most people in society. They were for training academics, churchmen, and lawyers, and for the scions of rich families to get to know each other. The majority of households became able to support themselves by mechanisms other than going to college.

It is only in the last generation (VERY recently in the thousand year history of the system) that universities have become almost the monopoly source of employment qualification. How ironic is it that as economic activity diversifies, qualification for entry narrows into a single queue?

One result of the university being the only door into the entire economy is that people assume that the way to do the best in the economy is to do the best in the university system. Get the most elite degree possible, and you'll have your pick of elite careers.

But it doesn't work that way. The university and the economy are two different worlds. People with PhDs in Etruscan history from Harvard are elite in the university system, and for every ten of them, there will be one academic job available. The other nine will have to leave the system and be no more qualified than people with far more ordinary degrees to be of value in the real economy.

But they'll think they deserve more because, after all, they were the winners of the system that everyone has to go through to qualify for a job. What a mess.

The sooner we can diversify the training and credentialing system to match the diversified economy, the better.

<comment><USER3> Maybe another way of looking at it: most Americans now get the university experience, something you note used to be reserved for social mixing of wealthy families. In other words: the masses are now experiencing a quality of life only the wealthy once had. Instead of seeing this a problem, I see it as the tip of the iceberg.

What is the college lifestyle? It's essentially the dream: do what you want, don't worry because everything is taken care of for the most part. It's like socialism: the good and the bad. You don't have to work very hard and there's little payoff for being the hardest worker. But at the same time, there's plenty of experimentation, outside the box thinking: everything is questioned.

Many of us suggest that machines do more and more of the heavy lifting, as humans are allowed to be the 'artists' (or whatever you want to call it) that they want to be... We hear this a lot: that we're on this kind of a trend and it'll continue until we need to make major political changes (a la distribution of wealth and ownership of production) to ensure harmonious society is possible. Well: I suggest that we're already part-way here. It's just that most of us experience this for only 4 years...or roughly 8% of our adult lives.

I suggest that this 8% will only grow and our societies will need to change, politically, in order to let this happen.

There are the credential-obsessed individuals on college campuses, but they're actually a small minority. Most are just living the life of freedom for a few years before learning what work is like. Wouldn't you go back and live college over again if you could now? awesome!

<comment><USER4> Unfortunately the "dream" lifestyle you described runs at a significant financial loss :(

It's a bit less idyllic if you have to try and break even.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I think people seriously over-estimate how much marginal happiness (if any) that expensive graduate degree will bring. Many people seem to continue studying out of inertia and through encouragement of academics who have a vested interest in maintaining a large number of graduate students.

I'd suggest they take their undergraduate degree and go test the waters of where they think they want to work. Spend a couple of years in the field, even at a lower level, pay off a little of the debt they already have, and then if they like the field, and want to continue in it, they'll have a much clearer idea of the benefit/cost ratio of an advanced degree, and a better idea of which school and program will give them the best value. And if they decide the whole field is wrong for them, it's much easier to start afresh somewhere else. Undergraduate degrees are much more transferable from field-to-field than advanced degrees.

<comment><USER6> I went through grad school once (PhD, dropped out, left with a MSc), am now doing the startup thing, and intend to go back for a PhD because I do love some things in research and academia (and I have some R&D-type ideas I'd like to work full-time on which require me to be in an university setting).

What I suggest to friends asking me for advice re:grad school is to go to grad school IF AND ONLY IF they get an assistantship of some sorts (those usually come with a tuition waiver).

When I applied to grad schools, I didn't get in my top 2 programs of choice; I did get in decent programs, but which wouldn't pay me (or not enough to cover my various expenses). I ended up choosing a lesser program, but one that gave me full tuition waiver + a teaching (and later, research) assistantship.

Grad school is a great experience, and I believe most people will get something from it. But it's not worth getting in debt for it (even if it's your top choice- you wouldn't pay Google/Apple/[insert your favorite company here] to go work for them).

Now of course, this advice is easier to follow for the scientific fields; but I have friends who got into liberal arts programs with full tuition waiver + a decent assistantship. The bar is just much higher for these (as it should be).

<comment><USER7> _> What I suggest to friends asking me for advice re:grad school is to go to grad school IF AND ONLY IF they get an assistantship of some sorts (those usually come with a tuition waiver)._

I think this is key. Every professor I ever had said "if you have to pay for a grad degree, don't go."

Which I would have, which is why I didn't!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I personally think #2 (Rubber Stamp Syndrome) is the most problematic long- term, since it doesn't have a readily-visible, actionable way to fix it (our entire upbringing and society around us reinforces it).

I hoped that this HBR article would have addressed ways to resolve rubber stamp syndrome. Alas, no.

I am consistently disappointed by the (poor) quality of ideas presented in "HBR Blog" articles. I stopped following the HBR twitter account after a few weeks since all the links I was clicking were links to HBR Blogs and every single one of them disappointed me.

<comment><USER9> HBR, like many orgs, uses "blog" as its down label brand, like Gap uses Old Navy and Intel uses Celeron.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> So the author's point is that debt is restrictive and stifling? And his advice is to just "eliminate your debt load"?

Is this supposed to be satire?

<comment><USER11> People sometimes need to be told. Right now, countless college students with $X0,000 of debt are considering law school and masters degrees without a clear idea of how the added credential will improve their prospects.

I tend to think that almost all good advice is cliche for most and a revelation for some. We all have different blind spots.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> As a developer (These days, DevOps engineer) without a uni degree I can tell you absolutely that for better or for worse you're probably still better off with a degree. Note that I'm saying this is how it should be, but just that to say "your degree is holding you back is absurd".

You may choose to do stupid things to justify the money you spent at uni, but in the last 24 months:

* I was unable to secure a badass job as a pen tester, due entirely to an upstream policy of not hiring people without degrees. I was told that an exception could be made, but I'd already been screwed around for 2 months by them and needed work.

* The process of working or moving over seas is diabolically complicated already, and made borderline impossible if you don't have a piece of paper to prove that you do what you do well.

My take on the article as that any barriers that a degree imposes are psychological and self-imposed, whereas there are still realworld issues you can't get past without one.

<comment><USER3> I'd be curious to hear your perspective as someone who didn't do college: do you feel you missed out on anything (other than the credential piece)? For me the experience was probably more valuable than the credential... at least in terms of values that this article is espousing: 'finding myself' etc. My degree was valuable in terms of money too...but for me the quality of life I had in college became a real ideal, an almost idyllic vision of cooperative living, good and bad, that has stayed with me. I'd never give up that experience, not for the world. In fact my feeling is college is the beginning of a trend whereby we're going to all start living lives of greater freedom and less hand-to-mouth... that is if we can find a way to share in the plenty that our times have created.

<comment><USER12> Not really. Some odd stuff you don't think about like how to structure a meeting or how to write a research paper.

Generally speaking, I spent the equivalent time a) gainfully employed and b) writing fucktons of code. This certainly isn't general advice and I don't know that I'd recommend doing this to other people, but for me specifically it seems to have paid dividends.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I would argue that debt holds most people back. It's easier to change jobs when you don't have unnecessary debt. The only debt that I would consider necessary is mortgage debt. Car loans, credit card debit, etc. are all things that can be managed and eliminated.

<comment><USER9> Mortgage debt, or more precisely, home ownership, locks you into expensive maintenance on an asset that is expensive to get rid of. You can't just downsize your house -- all the benefit gets soaked up in transaction fees.

<comment><USER14> Agreed. While my student loans have constrained my options, my home ownership has constrained my options by many more orders of magnitude. I hate my student loans, but don't regret them. I hate AND regret my home ownership.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> > First, eliminate your debt load.

Need money?

1\. Make money

Now here's my guide to happiness in life:

1\. Become happy.

Voilà. Problem solved. Enjoy.

<comment><USER16> The irony is that your guide to happiness in life is basically exactly how it works. If you want to be happy, the solution is...become happy, and there's no other trick to it.

It doesn't work so well for money because there're at least some external constraints on wealth, but for happiness, it really is purely mental and your "guide" will work perfectly well for most people. Well, the ones who're willing to take enough of a leap to follow it.

<comment><USER15> For happiness, I agree, although often a significant lack of money will hinder happiness and render unhappy.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> It's amazing how few supposedly educated people understand the concept of sunk costs. What's the best time to stop flushing money down the toilet? Do you think we should continue longer because we have been doing it for so long, or would it be better to stop now?

</comment><comment><USER18> So true. Grab a couple of beers with an ex-consultant when he's out of the system, open up about your BS experiences first and before you know it you end up spending all night sharing all the BS either of you had to go through. Worked every time so far.

</comment><comment><USER19> _"You're not the XXX, you're the product"_

Oh boy that one we're going to hear for a long time apparently :(

I know lots of people who paid $$$ for MBAs. And then they went on to make more $$$ than they would have without their MBAs. In a matter of two to three years they'd have make back what they paid their MBA.

How are they the "product" of the business school? To me they're the customer: they paid $$$ for the opportunity to then get $$$$$.

But it's sooooo easy to try to knock people down by repeating that "you're the product" mantra as if people were merchandise and the web is so full of people who just love to try to diminish others that I'm pretty sure we'll keep reading "you're the product" for a long time...

<comment><USER20> The motto is, "if you're not the customer, you're the product". This applies to colleges and universities as much as anything else. The entire discourse is muddled by the vast chasm between reputable MBAs and diploma mills.</comment></comment>


Watch_Dogs E3 2012 graphic effects found in the game. Downgrade is evident. - <AUTHOR> http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=390114

<comment><AUTHOR> OP here. While I understand that downgrades from trailers and promotional material is normal (and I can understand why it happens), in this case the effects don't appear to be unstable. In fact, some users report better performance with the "mod".

Now, the main conspiracy theory around is that console manufacturers asked Ubisoft to downgrade the game as their machines couldn't achieve a result as good the PC. Which is particularly bad as they are barely one year old.

I don't aim to start a flamewar or a a global outrage, but I want to know HN's opinion and what you think is the reasons behind this.</comment>


Ask HN: Best Hackathon Swag/Prizes? - <AUTHOR>

So, hypothetically, if someone were thinking of planning a virtual hackathon akin to a Rails Rumble or something like that, what sort of stuff would make the best prizes?
Let's assume this person/entity doesn't have a whole lot of budget for this project but still wants to be able to offer cool swag - so, think more O'Reilly store credit for animal books, less 17-inch MacBook Pro.
What kinds of goods/services would be the coolest, most exciting incentives? <comment><USER2> A Heroku gift certificate wouldn't be that exciting, but it would be really useful and you could probably get it highly discounted or free.

These MacbookPro sleeves (<http://www.colcasac.com/original.html>) are nice, pretty cheap and would definitely be usable for the winners or their friends.

If the hackathon benefits charities, you could probably get sponsors to provide cool stuff. Legitimate copies of Photoshop from Adobe, one of those incorporation packages from Intuit, etc.

<comment><AUTHOR> Legit software that we'd usually just torrent/crack - that's a great idea! And an incorporation (or LLC?) package is such a fantastic idea. Thank you very much!</comment></comment>


Show HN: Cedreo is officially available to American and German users - <AUTHOR> https://cedreo.com/en/pricing/ <comment><USER2> Yes but can I remove the ladder from the swimming pool while people are swimming?</comment>


Let's All Go to Mars: Books about the Wright Brothers and Elon Musk - <AUTHOR> http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n17/john-lanchester/lets-all-go-to-mars <comment><USER2> Has anyone read McCullough's new Wright Brothers book?

<comment><USER3> Yeah, it's good. Well written and not too long.</comment></comment>


Did Steve Jobs just sacrifice Phil Schiller? - <AUTHOR>

I just read the MacWorld Keynote on TechCrunch, and maybe Phil just isn't the showman that Jobs was, but I'm thinking that Jobs didn't host the keynote because there wasn't anything to say?<p>What do you think? Was there just nothing news worthy? or was it that Schiller just didn't carry the event? <comment><USER2> Did you _watch_ the keynote?

* A 17" MBP with an 8 hour battery.

* iWork.com for document sharing

* New Pages, Keynote, and Numbers; Pages links with Numbers now, which is huge

* Garageband has guitar and piano lessons built in (!)

* iMovie stole a bunch of features from FCP and has real camera stabilization

* iPhoto has face detection

* And oh yeah they _got rid of DRM on iTMS_

This keynote is bigger than any number of Stevenotes. Snow Leopard didn't even _rate_.

<comment><AUTHOR> I didn't watch it, I read the TC coverage after it was finished. This is the reason I asked the question. I'm not convinced that any of these items are ground breaking, though very cool features.

The coverage didn't seem exciting which is why I was asking the question did Steve Jobs not do the keynote because there was nothing worth reporting? or was it just not carried off with his panache and excitement? The coverage made it seem quite ho-hum.

And I still believe that none of these things are really news worthy. _An 8 hr battery on 17" device is pretty cool

_ iWork gets document sharing - about time, and they aren't going to become a leader with that product as a result

*Getting rid of DRM on iTMS means now they can are equal to amazon and everybody else

again, I don't see this stuff as really exciting and ground breaking. Cool, yes. Good business decisions, sure. Amazing! no.

<comment><USER2> Most of the Stevenotes aren't amazing.

'08: * The Air * Time Capsule * Movie Rentals

'07 * The iPhone (ok, ok)

'06 * Intel Macs * iWeb

'05 * Tiger, potlight * iWork * Shuffle

'04 * iLife * The iPod Mini

'03 * New iMovie, new iDVD * Safari * Keynote * 17" and 12" TiBooks

Was '09 as big as '07 or '06? No. But it's bigger than '03 and on par with '08 and '04. iPhone and iMovie are a big deal, the 17" MBP is their flagship computer (and some of the thunder from the MBP was stolen by the Q4 MacBook refresh --- which was a big deal), and the iTMS DRM thing is the biggest news on iTunes since Video.

<comment><USER3> 07 iphone - yes that was huge (sorry if I sound like a fan !). Mobile computing went mainstream (lots of attention).

06 - intel Macs - that was a big one (macs platforms went "mainstream" in their source of components).

I remember in 06 the world flipped - Apple went to intel. Microsoft went PowerPC for XBOX 360 !

So I think those 2 years kind of lifted the bar - so 08 and 09 seem like a relative let down.

<comment><USER2> In other words, '09 fits kind of right in the middle of all the MWSF's, and Apple is transitioning out of MWSF and into WWDC and its own special events. I don't think they phoned this in.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> A lot of people (myself included) were expecting to see a revamped Mac Mini. Instead, about the most exciting thing was the non-glare screen option for the new 17" Macbook Pro.

<comment><USER2> You think the Mac Mini, a product that accounts for a tiny sliver of all of Apple's revenue, rates a slot alongside a new rev of Apple's flagship computer?

<comment><USER5> Yes! It's the cheapest entry into owning a Mac at a time when people are looking to spend less money (e.g. netbooks).

<comment><USER2> Portables do almost double the amount of revenue as the whole desktop category for Apple; the Mini is accounted for alongside the Mac Pro and iMac lines --- either of which surely dwarf the Mini. However important you think it is, I don't think Apple thinks it's as important as the MBP, or the 3.3Bn iTMS, or even the 2.2Bn Apple software line.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Steve didn't sacrifice him. Apple is having less to say. . .because their products are speaking for themselves. You have to have a lot to say anytime you're on the edge. You have to rile people to a cause that isn't popular. Apple is popular and strong. They are constantly rolling out new products as they become ready. It's wonderful! Before, they had to do big demonstrations of how the G4 could do gigaflops or how they were going to change the world. Now, they can stand up there and say, we've made a better 17" laptop and walk off stage knowing that they aren't a hard sell like they used to be.

I'm not bashing what Apple was. I've been a Mac user from the LC and Quadra days, but I'm much happier with the company now. They aren't some counter- culture scrappy thing. They're big, stable, mainstream, and consistent. And I love it!

</comment><comment><USER7> iTunes going DRM free is a big deal. I'd say it marks the beginning of the end of DRM, at least in music (Amazon MP3 was first big store, but iTunes is the largest)

<comment><USER8> I think it's the end of DRM on music. It's going to be a lot harder to lose DRM on video- it's still making lots of money.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I think a LOT of the things they said were newsworthy.

Jobs said yesterday on Apple.com that he was spending the time recovering with his family. I think that's the main issue here, nothing else.

<comment><USER2> If he's been losing weight continuously since the last keynote --- where his appearance scared the press --- you can imagine the reason why Schiller did this keynote instead.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> That you personally don't find any of it interesting does not mean it's not newsworthy.

</comment><comment><USER11> You've had it too good for too long. Consider Apples innovation in the last three years compared to any (or all) of their competitors... even the glorious Apple can't deliver at the rate they're expected.

The batteries better perform as well as Apple is claiming or this could be a major fail.

</comment><comment><USER12> He, he.. That's what I was thinking.. Picturing El Jobso talking about the battery for half hour, .. nah. Better call in sick.... :-)

</comment><comment><USER13> You all can debate the merits of the keynote goodies but let me tell you why the answer to the question "Did Steve Jobs just sacrifice Phil Schiller?" is "Uhhh, no."

When the original clamshell iBook was introduced, Jobs did the keynote. And Phil Schiller's role in all this was to jump off a ladder into a stunt bag, holding the candy orange purse-looking thing, to show its sturdiness.

Do you think Steve Jobs would ever do such an undignified thing himself?

And this was what... 8, 9, 10 years ago?

Schiller is considered a joke. He always has been considered a joke. He looks and sounds more like he should be a cast member on Full House than a presentation guru.

Jobs claimed they were pulling out of MacWorld years ago, but went back on the idea for whatever reason. He doesn't have to "sacrifice" anyone. He's Steve Jobs, for crissakes.

Y'all don't have historical perspective on the man and the company. You can't make these kinds of assertions without it.

Note: Schiller has a tough row to hoe and he clearly works very hard to do a good job. I don't personally think he's a joke, but he's treated like one. "He's no Jobs" is hardly a damning statement.

</comment><comment><USER14> The new Macs with their new software will make some thing easier than they were in their previous versions. They have added to their products innovations that have already showed up (better) other places: Lenovo's W700, Dell's "all day" laptops, image stabilization from video cameras, Office Live/Google Docs/Sharepoint document sharing, Picasa's face recognition, Amazon's DRM-free music, Geotagging from everybody associated with photography, their previous laptop designs. It is hard to make any of that second-comer stuff seem earth- shattering, even if they implemented and packaged it better than the companies that brought those features to market before them.

If they wanted to make me excited about their products then they need _major_ first-to-market innovations. How about a 13" laptop with a 15" screen?</comment>


A-levels and GCSEs: Predicted results to be used for Welsh exam grades - <AUTHOR> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53807854 <comment><AUTHOR> "An announcement is expected in England later and Northern Ireland has already said it will use predictions for GCSEs."

If UKGOV is good at nothing else when it comes to technology, they've still got backtracking nailed down (assuming they follow suit which seems likely.)</comment>