Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID - <AUTHOR> http://www.raphaelfabre.com/#cni <comment><USER2> To be fair, his "photo" looks a lot more like him than my passport photo looks like me. It was taken early in the morning with an ancient camera under fluorescent lights at a post office. I am tinted decidedly green and my eyes look half closed. I look more like an extra on The Walking Dead than an international traveler.

He claims the photo is a "fiction". All photos are. The photo's job is to say that _" the person identified by this card looks like this"_ to an official looking at that card. If he modeled his head well and chose good render settings, it might be _truer_ than a "real photo" in this regard.

<comment><USER3> > He claims the photo is a "fiction". All photos are.

That's not true. Your passport photo is supposed to be a snapshot of what you looked like _in person_ at a certain point in time. It is the difference between a registration and a creation.

The likely effect of actions like these is that eventually the passport office will take the photographs to avoid people playing games with the system (such as: replacing the eyes with the eyes of someone else or changing other details that might screw up the biometric passport requirements).

<comment><USER2> >Your passport photo is supposed to be a snapshot of what you looked like in person at a certain point in time.

Then the photo the Post Office official took fails this test. My skin is not green and my hair is not black. They sure look that way in my passport photo.

The likely effect is that my official "photo" will become an amalgamation of AI facial recognition scans at official checkpoints through time. Perhaps closer to this render than any single photo could be.

That's the scary part. The machine will simply learn to recognize me on sight. The 4th Reich won't have to demand my papers, it will already know me by heart.

<comment><USER4> How is minor color distortion comparable to a completely artificial 3d rendering? In the past id photos were taken in completely black and white. But it was still a photograph of that person.

<comment><USER5> A photograph is a model of reality. This 3D render is a model of reality.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> In Sweden an artist painted a self-portrait, took a photo of it, and used that photo when renewing his driver's license. It was accepted. [0] The transport agency, when told about this afterwards, had no problem with it as it was -- in that small size anyway -- indistinguishable from a normal photo (but they discouraged others from trying the same). [1]

[0] [https://www.dn.se/kultur-noje/konst-form/konstnar-har- sjalvp...](https://www.dn.se/kultur-noje/konst-form/konstnar-har- sjalvportratt-som-korkortsfoto/)

[1] [https://www.dn.se/kultur-noje/konst- form/transportstyrelsen-...](https://www.dn.se/kultur-noje/konst- form/transportstyrelsen-bilden-ser-ut-som-vilket-foto-som-helst/)

</comment><comment><USER3> Oh that's cool. Would be even cooler if he had embedded some obvious artificial artifact through steganography in the image.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steganography](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steganography)

I've been messing with the system here by sanding off my prints before applying for a passport:

[https://jacquesmattheij.com/the-belt-sander-and-the- battle-f...](https://jacquesmattheij.com/the-belt-sander-and-the-battle-for- privacy-a-body-hack)

That was a fun exercise but this guy takes it to the next level.

<comment><USER7> I don't see an easy contact method on your website, so here goes. The 'old people' link is dead. Archive: [https://web.archive.org/web/20110121171058/http://www.compas...](https://web.archive.org/web/20110121171058/http://www.compassnewspaper.com/NG/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=73449:inec- machine-rejects-obasanjos-fingerprint&catid=43:news&Itemid=799)

<comment><USER3> Good one, thank you! I'll fix it as soon as my NAS has finished rebuilding (waiting for days :( ).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Hmmmm. Without knowing the details of how the image was created it's hard to say whether this is especially interesting or not.

For example - why would a 3D model based on high-quality photogrammetry be any less "real" than a digital photograph.

It's just a few more stages in a processing pipeline that starts with his real face.

If however - there was no photographic source material - either for geometry or textures - then it becomes much more interesting.

I suspect it's actually somewhere between the two and therefore mildly interesting but not incredibly profound.

<comment><USER3> > For example - why would a 3D model based on high-quality photogrammetry be > any less "real" than a digital photograph.

Because it isn't. It shows that you can get a digital ID based on the photograph of an entity that technically never existed, it's a texture map around human shaped blank, not a photograph of a human. You can bet that to the authorities this is a real problem.

<comment><USER9> It is not. Photo quality is low a anyway.

What's important is a controlled _process_ that attaches this photo to a hard- to-forge token, such as a passport or other identity document. It confirms that some designated clerk looked at the photo and at the person, and also at other documents confirming the identity of that person, and maybe asked questions to make sure the person is who (s)he alleges to be.

That photo is for reference only, and is worth next to nothing without the identity verification process above.

<comment><USER3> You're talking to the guy that pioneered digital photos used for identification purposes in 1985 (Goodsports, Alphabet BV, Amsterdam).

I think I know a thing or two about the processes involved to get a pass on being allowed to use digital imagery as proof of identity, the one thing that everybody involved from the official side was quite clear on was that _any_ kind of tampering with the image content was absolutely forbidden.

So I would expect this piece of art to have some far reaching consequences.

<comment><USER10> There's de-facto and de-jure.

Any tampering is forbidden right? Even the transposition of a pixel is forbidden - it's technically illegal, but as long as it doesn't make a difference then I don't think anybody is going to care - so what if this pixel is cyan in this picture and turquoise in the other.

When things are really going to hit the fan is if you are able to have a digitally altered picture that passes the eye test for visual verification but is useless somehow for facial recognition algorithms (altered facial proportions, etc etc). That's a big if, because I don't know much about facial recognition technologies, I'd suspect they're born from machine learning technologies based for human curated results.

<comment><USER3> Yes, this is correct. And that's exactly what this opens the door to. I suspect this will lead to some changes in the law regarding what route an image should take to be acceptable. It's been converging on this for a long time with ever more strict rules about what can and can not be in the picture. The list of requirements is quite long. It's a small step from there to having the passport office make the photograph.

<comment><USER10> > Yes, this is correct. And that's exactly what this opens the door to.

I don't quite understand what you mean. I get that it's technically illegal to swap pixels, but I don't think anybody can tell/would care if that happened. Only if a digitally altered picture can pass both a visual clerk test and facial recognition software will this be considered a problem.

Also, everything is still pointing towards having the passport office make the photograph. Right now post offices do have picture taking facilities - I think that if you just prevented people from taking their own to the post office, or made them take the picture at a place that never let you take possession of the photograph, that would be roughly equivalent. Hardly anybody takes a passport pic at home now, in my experience.

<comment><USER3> > I get that it's technically illegal to swap pixels, but I don't think > anybody can tell/would care if that happened.

This was an extremely important part of the workflow we set up long ago, to ensure integrity. Even compression artifacts were 'out', this posed some very interesting challenges in controlling the laser printers available at the time to output grayshades (which they really did not want to do), early attempts at dithering did not meet the required standards.

> Hardly anybody takes a passport pic at home now, in my experience.

Interestingly enough, my partner at the company that I worked for in the 80's (and who is technically retired) has just started up a new company to make those pictures with your smartphone.

[http://www.photo4id.com/](http://www.photo4id.com/)

<comment><USER10> > This was an extremely important part of the workflow we set up long ago, to > ensure integrity

I guess I didn't make my question clear enough which is why that sort of integrity matters. Is it just in response to government legislation that has nothing to do with the usefulness of the ID, or is there some sort of measurable impact on the effectiveness of the ID if that sort of integrity is not followed?

A crappy photograph with no compression artifacts is arguably a worse form of ID than a very well taken image that has compression artifacts. And with an extra layer of lamination and holographic images superimposed across the pictures, why is that allowed but discreet photo manipulation isn't? Is it just that the government doesn't fully understand technology so just knee-jerk bans all of it, or is there an actual basis for the suspicion of such things leading to bad identification?

<comment><USER3> The integrity matters because anything other than that is considered a falsification. It's a legal requirement, not a technical one. Of course you could flip a LSB in some grayscale image and get away with it. But from a legal point of view you've just done something that is not allowed.

<comment><USER10> Thank you for answering my question.

It's illegal because the law says that it's illegal, and the law doesn't really have any justification based in fact or actual use-cases, it's just legislation and legislation has a mind of its own.

So this new model might lead to additional legal changes, but the main changes a customer might see is that if the government decides it was wrong and decides on another definition of "falsification" (not likely) or the government doubles down and requires an audit trail of the ID photograph from the taking of the photograph and all devices used to process the photograph.

<comment><USER3> > It's illegal because the law says that it's illegal

That goes for all laws.

> the law doesn't really have any justification based in fact or actual use- > cases, it's just legislation and legislation has a mind of its own.

No, the law is embodying many years of experience with people attempting to forge IDs. So 'tampering' with the inputs to the process is tantamount to forgery, it makes good sense and it draws the lines in an extremely clear and non-ambiguous way. Far better than to leave some vague statements open to interpretation about what manipulation is allowed and what not (fun bit: people asking the service if we can edit out their wrinkles...).

> the government doubles down and requires an audit trail of the ID photograph > from the taking of the photograph and all devices used to process the > photograph.

In some places they do this, you get a certificate of authenticity with your passport photographs that you have to hand in to the officials.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> To me, this is really not that weird. Law enforcement can put up "wanted" posters based on an artist's sketch. So there is already a way that governments rely on a synthetic image for identification purposes.

Of course that is only for preliminary identification, but then this is a more accurate representation than a sketch.

<comment><USER12> A photorealistic color painting might be just as good for identification purposes as a photograph, though it might be easier to tell it was done by hand. As long as it looks "like you" (according to other fallible humans!) then it does its job.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Now we just need a scare story about how two similar-looking men could get a single passport using an "averaged digital composition".

[To bypass a no-fly list, for example]

<comment><USER9> A friend of a friend told me about identical twins that sometimes swapped identities and documents, to circumvent some bureaucratic hurdles.

<comment><USER14> I actually know identical twins that do that... Seems quite common. One managed to board a plane with the ID card of the other one for instance.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> This is a perfect example of the uncanny valley for anyone not familiar with the concept. It's _just_ beyond the threshold enough to make the viewer feel as if something's off.

<comment><USER3> I can't tell. And I _used_ to be pretty good at spotting fake stills but this is beyond my ability to discern, what specifically makes you feel 'something's off'?

<comment><USER15> The eyes look dead, the hair is obviously fake, and blur seems to be used to soften the wrong parts. It is very close though.

I showed it to my wife with no context, and she immediately asked if it was a still from a new video game.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> What people seem to be missing is that this _is_ a photograph. It just happens to be wrapped on a 3D model.

<comment><USER7> Is it? I thought the newsworthiness was that he re-made it. Otherwise, indeed, it is(/would be) just a picture.

Edit: this comment makes a pretty good point regarding that [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14576962](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14576962)

<comment><USER16> > Is it?

Yes - photos of the face will have been used as texture and bump maps.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Is there no confirmation under penalty of perjury that the image provided was a photograph (and not just a likeness)? Or, is it as he claims, satisfactory according to the requisite standards?

"Artist uses a blog post to provide evidence of government falsifying documents."

<comment><USER18> Well he lists the French legal requirements on the post and he seems to match all the criteria.

<comment><USER19> The criteria (online at [https://www.service- public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F10619](https://www.service- public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F10619)) talk explicitly about photos. They also say it has to be taken by a professional or in a photo booth certified by the government. IANAL, but I wouldn't build on that defense.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> I think this is the first time when I almost thought that this is a photograph not 3D model. The facial features are almost life-like, but then you look up and look at the hair line and you realize what you're looking at. Still mind- blowing, at least to me, how close we are to modeling 3D models of humans indistinguishable from real-life.

</comment><comment><USER21> The US passport system has you bring in your own photos as well. I wonder if the various law enforcement facial recognition databases account for the potential of people altering photos...changing the distance between eyes, nose, etc. Of course, end users can't alter mug shots.

<comment><USER22> The problem is that if you do that, you won't be able to use the epassport gates. Not that they are very efficients, but perhaps one day they will be.

<comment><USER23> Maybe this is a feature rather than a bug. Hypothetically you could create a representation of yourself that works for humans to recognize you, but not for facial recognition systems.

<comment><USER7> I tried that, to fool the bus' facial recognition system (they want to keep known assholes out, or at least that's currently the intended purpose (or at least that's what they say)), but you need to go really far before most algorithms don't recognize your face as a face anymore.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> This is too boring. Out here in 'radical' India, we have Aadhar 'unique ID' (tm) for such diverse specimens as trees and cows (and fully equipped with biometrics like fingerprints and Iris).

I wish this was a '/s' but really it's true!

</comment><comment><USER25> As a complete aside, google translate is incredible. Until I started reading the same thing again, I didn't even realize the page was french. And even then, I thought the second section was the translation, not the first!</comment>


America's top export in 2011 was . . . fuel?  - <AUTHOR> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/americas-top-export-in-2011-was--fuel/2011/12/31/gIQAzlvgSP_print.html

<comment><USER2> I'm reading the U.S. Census Bureau report from October [0] and I can't for the life of me figure out where these numbers are coming from, they seem to be flat out wrong.

Using NAICS product categories the "top 5" through October appear to be:

1) Transportation Equipment - 164.79 billion

2) Chemicals - 156.7 billion

3) Non-Electrical Machinery - 118.4 billion

4) Computers and Electrical Products - 102.4 billion

5) Petroleum and Coal Products - 81.26 billion

Am I reading this report wrong?

[0] [http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/Press- Release/current_pr...](http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/Press- Release/current_press_release/ft900.pdf)

<comment><USER3> They could both be correct; it depends on how you slice it.

For example, the article notes, "Aircraft, motor vehicles, vacuum tubes and telecom equipment were next on the list of top exports."

In your list, both aircraft and motor vehicles are are grouped under "transportation equipment," making it a much larger group.

<comment><USER2> Understood, but nothing seems to add up to the given numbers. Nor do the categories used seem to be based on any standard I can find.

Its pretty easy to make almost anything you want appear to be the "biggest" if you can arbitrarily manipulate the category system used.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> _Aircraft, motor vehicles, vacuum tubes and telecom equipment were next on the list of top exports._

Vacuum tubes??!?

<comment><USER5> Makes (a small amount of) sense -- the only high-quality tubes I've ever seen were either manufactured in the U.S., Europe, or in various parts of the former USSR; Chinese tubes have a very poor reputation at least in audio circles.

Perhaps this is because nobody ever bothered to put a serious effort into outsourcing vacuum-tube production, in the same way ICs and microprocessors have been outsourced, leaving the remaining production still domestic?

Or maybe it's just that there are huge stockpiles of the things sitting around in the U.S. and they're slowly being sold off, both for domestic consumption and export, but the net result is an export of tubes? That wouldn't be hard to believe either.

<comment><USER6> According to this:

[http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/big-shift-for-gas- guz...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/big-shift-for-gas-guzzling- nation-fuels-are-top-us-export-oil-imports-still-worlds- highest/2011/12/30/gIQAw0A5QP_story.html?tid=sm_twitter_washingtonpost&tid=sm_twitter_washingtonpost)

we exported $37.1B worth of vacuum tubes last year. I could be wrong but that amount seems wildly implausible. Could the category actually be "Vacuum tubes, etc." where "etc" is semiconductors?

<comment><USER4> The only things I really know of that would still use vacuum tubes are esoteric high-end audiophile amplifiers, and some "old school" guitar amps (Marshall, Hiwatt, etc). Is there really that big a market? Are they used for anything else?

<comment><USER7> You are overlooking things like magnetrons, x-ray tubes, photomultipliers, CRTs (which still have a lot of applications outside of the video display sphere), krytons and so forth. It's not all about diodes, triodes, tetrodes and pentodes.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Oil from the tar sands in Alberta is sent to the US to be refined and then sold so while the numbers might say one thing, the truth is a bit murkier.

<comment><USER9> And the Keystone Pipeline project, which is supposed to "create American jobs" (for a couple hundred temp workers) and "improve America's energy independence" (through oil exports), is designed to help move Alberta oil to US refineries and shipping ports on the Gulf Coast.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> This is a very recent trend reversal. An earlier story I saw in the print edition of the Wall Street Journal discussed some of the background to the very large recent increase in exports from the United States to other countries of refined petroleum products that count as "fuel." Some more current stories

[http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-0103-fuel- expo...](http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-0103-fuel- exports-20111231,0,366760.story)

[http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/story/2011-1...](http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/story/2011-12-31/united- states-export/52298812/1)

[http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2011/12/the-2011-ar...](http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2011/12/the-2011-argus- americas-crude-summit-held-in-houston-last-januarywas-named-life-after- macondo-it-was-focused-almost-entire.html)

[http://www.ogj.com/articles/2011/12/market-watch-oil- makes-s...](http://www.ogj.com/articles/2011/12/market-watch-oil-makes-small- gains-gas-price-continues-decline.html)

give more background on the rise in United States fuel exports and when the trend became apparent to federal government energy policy officials.

</comment><comment><USER11> Are these really exports to other countries, or do shipments intended for or directly to US forces in Iraq, Afghanistan etc also count as exports?

</comment><comment><USER12> We exported a lot of it straight into the ocean!</comment>


Stockfish – open source chess engine - <AUTHOR> https://stockfishchess.org/ <comment><USER2> I use this as my primary chess engine. Most top chess engines are better than any human grandmaster. However none of them use deep learning like Google did with go and I am trying to setup tensor flow with stockfish so that it can see patterns in chess board</comment>


Black Hawk flies, lands and avoids threats - all without pilots - <AUTHOR> http://blog.al.com/breaking/2012/12/black_hawk_flies_lands_and_avo.html

<comment><USER2> Just keep in mind, this is a science project. It's going to be a long, long time (or never) before this is safe from enemy exploitation. I can think of all kinds of wacky ways to crash one of these things.

Autonomy is fine for high-flying, loitering aircraft, not so fine for low- altitude flight relying on easily-exploitable terrain avoidance & positioning technologies.

<comment><USER3> Your right, and I think where this will end up is with 'super aware' pilots. Where the plane does just about everything automatically, but there's a human inside that basically 'thinks' and the vehicle does. Our brains are already better at strategy than the most advanced computers, it makes sense that the vehicle takes care of the easy stuff (like not hitting walls and landing) and the human focuses on the enemy.

<comment><USER4> "Our brains are already better at strategy than the most advanced computers"

\--- for how much longer? and when taken at scale, is the human race really all that great at strategy? We are so much at the mercy of emotions to ever be truly great strategists. What if, for example, given food production and water usage etc the math dictated that the population must reduce, do you really think this strategy would be adopted? Of course not.

i don't really see the point of self-flying helicopters, it's not like there's a shortage of bright young men and women who want to fly these things. The real challenge isn't flying helicopters, but finding ways to resolve situations without blowing shit up. As fun as that might be...

<comment><USER5> _"I don't really see the point of self-flying helicopters, it's not like there's a shortage of bright young men and women who want to fly these things."_

Fewer caskets arriving at Dover AFB for repatriation.

<comment><USER6> While that may be an issue at higher political levels (deaths make wars less popular), young people aren't put off by the risk of death, as armies have know for thousands of years. And given the description of the US military as being Americas social welfare system, is this for the greater good, or not?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I think the Army's self-flying helicopter trumps Google's self-driving car. This is the kind of competition where everyone wins!

Edit: For the people who are still alive...

<comment><USER8> > the kind of competition where everyone wins!

I want to make a snarky comment about the dead (possibly innocent civilian) people not being winners, but I guess a drone is less likely to kill innocent people than shock & awe style bombing and cluster bombing, which tend to harm a lot of children.

It's a weapon of war and so the US is unlikely to release any information for many years. That's a shame, because they've probably got some neat tech which could be used for self driving cars.

<comment><USER9> No autonomous vehicle made by the US has attack / strike capabilities yet. The J-UCAS / J-UCAV was proposed and demo vehicles were made, but they are not even close to operational. I would imagine the blackhawk will be a similar situation where it starts out as a transport vehicle for the foreseeable future.

<comment><USER10> Tomahawk cruise missiles are autonomous vehicles, as are stand-off anti-tank weapons that loiter on parachutes after deployment and choose their own target tanks.

<comment><USER11> Israel have built an anti-radar missile that has cruise capability, allowing it to loiter above a theatre waiting for something to make an active radar lock. I think (but am not sure) that it can even land safely for reuse after a set time frame if unused.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Would it be easier to build one of these systems for a Commanche or an Osprey? I ask because I imagine that control systems are heavily utilized in these two helicopters, meaning that all the necessary feedback loops / transfer functions / frequency responses are already known. Thus, taking those systems a step further into controlling position may be more efficient than starting from pneumatic controls on a Black Hawk.

<comment><USER13> Well, the Comanche was canceled a while ago and never entered service. The Black Hawk is an ideal testbed for this tech because there are so many of them in service and its handling and controls are well understood. It's a pretty conventional design, and would benefit more from being unmanned due to cruising lower and slower (more vulnerable) than the Osprey.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Almost an hour and still no references to SkyNet. Am I just that old? :-)

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skynet_(Terminator)>

<comment><USER15> Is it just me, or is SkyNet's rational intelligence less scary than the people who will actually end up controlling these machines?

edit: I mean no disrespect to soldiers - I refer to the politicians.

<comment><USER6> No disrespect to soldiers? Seen the Abu Ghraib photos? It isn't the fact it was soldiers so much as the fact the people keep doing things like that, year in year out. The problem as I see it is that people will make the machines better at committing atrocities.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> _I can think of all kinds of wacky ways to crash one of these things._

Please do tell. Thanks.

<comment><USER17> Instead, think of ways to hijack it like the Iranians (supposedly) did. After all, you could sell it to the Chinese or Russians for a LOT of money. Go ahead I dare you.

As a countermeasure, we would have a second-channel kill switch and self- destruct mechanism. If you try to hijack it back to an unfriendly location, we blow it up when you approach it with resulting casualties. If you try to use it as an offensive weapon we use the kill switch and/or self-destruct in an area of our choosing.

To overcome the possibility of an external self destruct signal reaching the drone when you hijack it, you'll probably come up with tricks like bathing it in strong spread-spectrum interference or dropping it into a Faraday cage. Either can be detected and trigger the self destruct internally.

Perhaps you can disable the drone by hitting it with an EMP weapon but still recover it. Good luck.

<comment><USER18> > To overcome the possibility of an external self destruct signal reaching the > drone when you hijack it, you'll probably come up with tricks like bathing > it in strong spread-spectrum interference or dropping it into a Faraday > cage. Either can be detected and trigger the self destruct internally.

That seems counterproductive. If you create a self destruct system that can auto-enable based on conditions, the enemy just needs to create those conditions. They may be deprived of the weapon system, but so are you.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Fully Automated Killing, FTW!

<comment><USER20> Scary thought, also when armies can't think for themselves.

<comment><USER21> In America, you think for the Army. In Soviet Russia...

But seriously, in the 80's the Soviet brass still treated tank battalions somewhat like fire and forget weapons. Basically, they'd just mow down everything in front of them until they broke.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> I've seen this episode of Mythbusters...

</comment><comment><USER23> he he....RASCAL...he he</comment>


LaTeX based chat - <AUTHOR> http://www.mathim.com/

<comment><USER2> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/pidgin-latex/>

Adium used to have a plugin for this too, which I used to use, but I haven't bothered to see if there's a current version.

<comment><USER3> [http://adiumxtras.com/index.php?a=xtras&xtra_id=5577](http://adiumxtras.com/index.php?a=xtras&xtra_id=5577)

Last update was a little under a year ago.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> You can also use <http://thewe.net/tex/> to type out equations on gmail (as well as in the gmail chat).

<comment><USER5> Neat. Some time ago I made a little web site that can turn LaTeX into a PNG file for those times when you need a quick equation (or inequality): <http://equationater.com/>

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> How about if we meet/test in room "HN"? <http://www.mathim.com/HN>

</comment><comment><USER7> Note that on <http://www.mathim.com/translate/> when you type anything with a slash in it (eg: "x/2") it tries to go to <http://www.mathim.com/translate/x/2> and fails, presumably because it's trying to interpret the slash as a directory separator.

Edit: cool, looks like you fixed the <http://www.mathim.com/translate/x/2> as I spoke. Though the image at <http://render.mathim.com/x/2> is still broken.

</comment><comment><USER8> I did this a few years back for an independent study in college. Once the semester was over I never touched it again though. Hopefully they'll do a better job.

<http://carnap.cs-i.brandeis.edu/~dlaz/dev/groupmath/chat.xml>, for anyone who's interested.

</comment><comment><USER9> The interface for Mathematica, which typically consists of bracketing special characters with escape characters, is a lot less cumbersome than LaTeX for writing something quickly. For example, the integral of the square root of x is entered

esc int esc ctrl-2 x left arrow esc dd esc x. Shift-enter evaluates the thing to 2/3 x^3/2.

</comment><comment><USER10> Nice. Would be nice if it use MathML (or something like that) instead of images.

<comment><USER11> The point of using LaTeX to render an image is that it preserves the beautiful and precise layout that only the (La)TeX engine can give.

<comment><USER10> Maybe. I have used latex extensively (and is now currently busy typing my dissertation in Latex). I personally think that Latex is a bit overrated.

There can be much better programs and Latex's applicability is fairly limited. It takes hours to get something to look right.

<comment><USER12> Still? Christ it tooks hours when I typed my dissertation-- and that was pushing 20 years ago.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Wow, I'm glad I don't have to use LaTex.

<comment><USER14> Yeah it's OK for typesetting books but very verbose for chatting. Though if you need to chat about integrals and the like I guess you are stuck with it.

<comment><USER15> We're just talking about LaTeX's math mode here. Are there any more concise and easier ways to type math on a normal keyboard and have it display in a pretty way?

<comment><USER16> Maple will take input like

      y=int(x^2,x=0..100)

and turn it into pretty print. That seems more natural than LaTeX. LaTeX is for getting exactly what you want on paper, at the expense of ease of typing.

<comment><USER17> Is that harder than $\int_{0}^{100} x^2 dx$? Your version is only 4 chars less, and mine looks more like the actual math...

LaTeX has the added advantage that most mathematicians have it in muscle memory. (I have latex in emacs muscle memory, so I have a hard time using mathim.)

<comment><USER18> i find the non-latex version better because it has fewer $ and \ and {}

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Needs more tornado. Or, err, twisted.web.</comment>


Google Employee Clarifies Google Photos Announcement - <AUTHOR> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+anilsabharwal/posts/cAYN5wJPcx7 <comment><USER2> I guess that is what you call a PR disaster. To me it looks like Google is shutting down services randomly.</comment>


Bardcore - <AUTHOR> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bardcore <comment><USER2> Huh. That's cool. Medieval music has been a thing in Germany for many years (with relatively few pop covers though). From pure market-music (the kind played at medieval fairs), to versions with metal and/or electro elements.

Ougenweide [0] was one of the earliest in the 70ies, Zupfgeigenhansel [1] from the same time did some covers (Bella Ciao in German here)

Die Streuner [2] are not as close to the pure-medieval style but use a lot of self-built instruments.

Satolstelamanderfanz [3] are mostly instrumental and traditional, Corvus Corax [4] are similar, but far bigger, drum heavier, and also have a few covers.

Tanzwut [5] is an example of medieval electro-metal

Schelmish [6] is party-medieval music with metal influences, In Extremo [7] is probably the most successful medieval metal band.

I could probably go on for hours, but I think this is already a bit much, so I'll stop here ;)

[0]: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95EoHfFGBeU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95EoHfFGBeU)

[1]: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_loaZEwKkc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_loaZEwKkc)

[2]: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOoIHHwjg-0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOoIHHwjg-0)

[3]: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTJkp06x7EE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTJkp06x7EE)

[4]: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWruBwPNBOs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWruBwPNBOs)

[5]: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5fmbSnVQrI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5fmbSnVQrI)

[6]: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIQiSZdX8vA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIQiSZdX8vA)

[7]: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwcde8YTe2M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwcde8YTe2M)

<comment><USER3> And even a Medieval-metal-comedy band ( Feuerschwanz )

<comment><USER4> they are moving away from medieval to more metal-like music tho

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Thank you HN for pointing me to this! It still exists on the internet of 2020, innocent creative brilliance with a nice dose of humor, not spoiled by commercial interests. This almost feels like the internet of yore

<comment><USER6> Isn't it just!

Clear serious commitment on those making sure language is authentic.

Hearing some of the instrumental covers makes me fantasize about all the 'bands' of musicians & the songs they'd play live, never to be written down & back before music could be recorded.

I would love to imagine a group playing a song not quite unlike this in a tavern & people going wild...

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5d8bnvO2JQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5d8bnvO2JQ) (System of a Down - Toxicity - Medieval Style - Bardcore)

<comment><USER7> After watching this video, I now get why this exists. That was pretty cool

<comment><USER8> My personal favourite:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK7olFGxw3Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK7olFGxw3Y)

It brought a rare smile to my face during the stressful times in March when COVID started blowing up.

<comment><USER9> Heres one of my recent finds: [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhn_8OIMWFs&list=OLAK5uy_kEqS_...](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhn_8OIMWFs&list=OLAK5uy_kEqS_tSoax6m3cFM1KMje9I3QYErYu7Zo&index=5&t=0s)

<comment><USER10> Mispaste? That's an Ethiopique piano piece for me.

<comment><USER11> Probably. On the other hand, anything that links to Ethiopian music has my vote.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Hildegard von Blingin' is pretty good too.

[https://m.youtube.com/user/9freakydarling9](https://m.youtube.com/user/9freakydarling9)

Plus their name is unreasonably funny.

<comment><USER13> > unreasonably funny

Why is it 'unreasonable' to be funny?

<comment><USER14> This has all the hallmarks of being terrible, yet it is not. I also felt that it was unreasonably good.

Or maybe you were trying to make a joke?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Not as new, but synthwave [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthwave](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthwave) is a recent genre that has been gaining in popularity. Back before the complete consolidation of radio after the Telecommunications Act of 1996, there were a lot of local DJs who would find bands and promote them. The genres that were part of "popular" music changed over the decades. Now, on the other hand, if you turn on the radio, the music sounds roughly the same as it did 20 years ago.

<comment> barry-cotter > Now, on the other hand, if you turn on the radio, the music sounds roughly > the same as it did 20 years ago.

Twenty years ago rock was a living genre instead of something on life support from old geezers and rap and hip hop weren't default music, rock was. Country has also gotten way less Christian and again, much more rap and hip hop influenced. If you listen to a years worth put number ones from 2002 it does not sound like 2022. The difference isn't as great as 1960-1980 but "roughly the same" it is not.

<comment><USER16> Radio country ('that Nashville sound') is not for me. Everyone has their own tastes, for sure, but radio country is not mine.

The bro-country that has evolved (an iota) into the snaptrack country is basically unchanged since ~2012. The hick-hop influences are much different than Garth and the other 90's influences, of course, but they are unchanging mostly. For example: both Kasey and Taylor got their start in that sound (kinda), but quickly moved on.

For me, internet streaming saved country. The neo-rebel country you can find online is much better than the radio, to me at least. Acid-country, IPA country, Texas music, whatever the hell John Prine is, etc. are all online now and at shows (were, hopefully we can get shows back again). Granted, it's not as profitable (cheap and fast).

The Nashville Sound has been, is, and will be the same: ca-ching, ca-ching, ca-ching.

As for rock, I'm glad that it's been left behind. We're starting to get really good rock again as people looking for a buck have left and the enthusiasts have stuck around. At least, that's my feeling. Rock, as well, is splintering, but in a good way. It's become more international and those influences are fruitful. The artists are smaller, but the good ones that have made the digital transition have a deeper support network.

<comment><USER17> You speak truth. That's all. Living in Oklahoma and Texas I learned many of the flavors - and it was a nice break from my hard rock days in the 90s and naughts.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> On a related note, there's a great trend of high-quality remakes in altogether more recent historical styles. Scott Bradlee's Postmodern Jukebox is a great example.

This Frank-Sinatra-esque "Still Alive" (by "8-Bit Big Band") is really good. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22vbhTi1ieI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22vbhTi1ieI)

<comment><USER19> the subtitles were a nice touch

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Bardcore is arguably traceable to the "What Is Love?" meme which originated in 2005 on YTMND, based on a 1996 Saturday Night Live skit. It consisted of a short, repeated loop taken from the skit of the three "Roxbury Guys" (90s lounge lizards, basically) bobbing their heads to Haddaway's "What Is Love?" in their car. Endless variants and edits of the loop were made -- one of the most memorable being "What Doth Love Be?" which features a medieval- instrumentation version of the Haddaway riff and a Bayeux Tapestry style art work of three men in a boat:

[https://youtu.be/3uHz0KdIbhY](https://youtu.be/3uHz0KdIbhY)

Of course, the song "What Is Love?" on its own makes an excellent bardcore candidate:

[https://youtu.be/Kbj4bulZX2Y](https://youtu.be/Kbj4bulZX2Y)

<comment><USER21> Always happy to see someone else remembering YTMND. I have a soft spot for the endless remixing with different video/audio influences. I guess it is a similar thing that people do now on TikTok, but maybe people were less inclined to use videos of themselves as source material in the early 2000s

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> My favorite of this style is honestly Nothing Else Matters by Algal.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCUx9nOt9u8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCUx9nOt9u8)

He does a great job, plays the instruments on video too.

<comment><USER23> It would honestly be really cool to encounter this (or something like it) unexpectedly in some fantasy type movie. One of my favorite things of the new Westworld series was the Player piano openings of more recent hits.

<comment><USER24> I especially liked the western style of "Paint it Black" from The Rolling Stones: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iZ9JRVmJ5o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iZ9JRVmJ5o)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Interesting that this trend is on wikipedia. Talk discussion about deletion and notability: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bardcore](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bardcore)

<comment><USER26> It's probably safe now after the (lightweight, it's just the entertaining _Pass notes_ column) Guardian article¹.

1: [https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/jun/24/never-mind- the...](https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/jun/24/never-mind-the-ballads- how-bardcore-took-over-pop-music)

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> Hildegard von Blingin's cover of Bad Romance is the anthem of Bardcore:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2zpbcW- h-c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2zpbcW-h-c)

</comment><comment><USER28> [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvAEMz64O9c&feature=youtu.be](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvAEMz64O9c&feature=youtu.be)

You're welcome.

<comment><USER29> Pumped up kicks 1066 A.D Cover in Old English (Anglo Saxon) Bardcore

[https://youtube.com/watch?v=JcKqhDFhNHI](https://youtube.com/watch?v=JcKqhDFhNHI)

<comment><AUTHOR> A few songs sung in Middle English: [https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bardcore+middle...](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bardcore+middle+english)

One commenter described it as sounding like English with Dutch pronunciation.

<comment><USER28> It's not Bardcore unless it's sung in period-correct languages ;-)

<comment><USER30> The slightly more recognisable late medieval English is more fun to play with for laughs e.g. 'I am but a girl, smaller than thee / Allowest me not from thy sight' [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwFQnLwLyec](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwFQnLwLyec) and the 'and she calleth a horse' line in this :D [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIKNi0Pk43c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIKNi0Pk43c)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> The inevitable:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP1QJguEJJc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP1QJguEJJc)

</comment><comment><USER32> The first two albums of Ritchie Blackmore's (of Deep Purple fame) project Blackmore's Night blew me away,

Debut album: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3_Uo3mr30A&list=OLAK5uy_muz...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3_Uo3mr30A&list=OLAK5uy_muzTk_kNikYnLIU9cHAijuvYWhq3hBivA)

Check out Play for me Minstrel play, a duet with the singer of Jethro Tull on the flute. Starts quiet but later they start shredding on flute and guitar unisono.

Second album: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ttqnz- xnwWM&list=OLAK5uy_k7d...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ttqnz- xnwWM&list=OLAK5uy_k7ddy7aWWbWTCdBtFeJg7MBtOORwj4WV8)

Check out Spanish nights.

</comment><comment><USER31> Y.M.C.A.:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl7zqpZBVrc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl7zqpZBVrc)

X-Files theme, discovered in a medley:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t8GFh7Fz5M&t=278s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t8GFh7Fz5M&t=278s)

30 seconds in, Gangsta's Paradise sounds like Anno 1502 background music.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dywM446-vcE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dywM446-vcE)

<comment><USER16> Oh wow, now that cover of Gangster's Paradise could really use some lyrics.

Coolio's original song is a masterpiece. Especially looking back after the death of George Floyd and it's aftermath, that 1995 song resonates more than it has in the last 25 years.

It's words of the street and the oppressed are universal and timeless (unfortunately). Maybe take the bardcore cover and alter Coolio's lyrics to represent the lead up to the Peasant's Revolt of 1381?

<comment><USER11> Reacting to you saying "Coolio's _original_ masterpiece":

Coolio actually sampled/covered the song "Pastime Paradise" from Stevie Wonder

[https://youtu.be/_H3Sv2zad6s](https://youtu.be/_H3Sv2zad6s)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> There is a similar genre of groups doing Indian classical covers of songs e.g. [https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqqiOgzFLmFeo3vB9jW_Suw...](https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqqiOgzFLmFeo3vB9jW_SuwP- cT44Oa7l)

<comment><USER34> I ... don't know ... what to say.

In theory anything that increases exposure to the glories of the Carnatic tradition is a good thing.

Whether or not this actually counts as that is open to debate.

I look at the playlist and don't know whether to laugh or groan.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> Fitting musicke for these times of ye plague.

</comment><comment><USER36> I wonder how much did Netflix's Witcher(or the game for that matter) contribute to the emergence of this genre?

<comment><USER37> Witcher is not the first medieval fantasy show or game.

Memes using the Bayeux tapestry were a reasonably active niche a few years ago, I suspect this phenomenon is derived from that.

<comment><USER38> Pretty sure normies learned about bards from The Witcher and not, say, EverQuest.

<comment><USER37> Has Bardcore reached "normies" at all yet?

<comment><USER39> You're here arnt you.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> [https://youtu.be/I5TB9DT6s-E](https://youtu.be/I5TB9DT6s-E)

A fellow once told me the earth is quite unholy They call me slow of mind 'round the land And a maiden very cruel, wrote out I am a fool In letters spelléd out using her hand

\- What Zit Tooya (in the comments)

</comment><comment><USER41> Not sure if this fits the genre exactly, but here is Smells Like Teen Spirit in Latin: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbEKIW3pUUk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbEKIW3pUUk)

<comment><USER19> Μα Τον Δια: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5fA6dTnyrE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5fA6dTnyrE)

(a musical accompaniment for the Odyssey thread: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24352463](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24352463) )

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> I submit the possible Japanese inverse: Metal with traditional instruments.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ponTbDDMYjw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ponTbDDMYjw)

</comment><comment><USER43> related and similarly fun is the rather esoteric genre of "wizard disco". [https://bandcamp.com/tag/wizard-disco](https://bandcamp.com/tag/wizard-disco)

</comment><comment><USER44> This is great.

I can picture a group of medieval brutes sharpening their blades around a fire listening to the toxicity version, getting amped up before a castle raid.

</comment><comment><USER45> This is the one great thing that has come out from this cursed year.

<comment><USER16> Unfortunately, I think this is just how years go now.

</comment></comment><comment><USER46> Most of bardcore sounds too modern to me, likely because it is being done with modern equipment with certain modern expectations.

Contrast the bardcore version of popcorn: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwLT2fNBSf0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwLT2fNBSf0)

with an version actually played with medieval instruments: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNJ_mUap_2A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNJ_mUap_2A)

Another example is: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAxjH2HCWzo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAxjH2HCWzo) This is a trailer for BBC4's Medieval Season. The music is Jimi Hendrix's Purple Haze played on Medieval Instruments.

</comment><comment><USER47> The one that made me smile the most is: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkpxEezTu4s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkpxEezTu4s)

The main melody and these cliché medieval chords are a fit made in heaven.

I find that most of the stuff on YouTube lacks this kind of cleverness though.

<comment><USER48> My favourite: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxbufWzX1NA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxbufWzX1NA)

I really like the bass.

The pirates of the Caribbean theme fits really nicely as well: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95M9UsQS2HI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95M9UsQS2HI)

Probably helps that the original music was made for and recorded on classical instruments.

If you like vocals in ancient english: [https://www.youtube.com/user/9freakydarling9](https://www.youtube.com/user/9freakydarling9)

<comment><USER49> Hildegard von Blingin doesn't do "ancient english", that's early modern English, c. 16th century. This account is the only one I have found using early medieval dialects: [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbVcb9puAsOhXBT2_XPFf-A](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbVcb9puAsOhXBT2_XPFf-A)

<comment><USER48> I used the term "ancient" as an indication that it was older than the contemporary english because I didn't know which category it fell into, whether it was old english, middle english, or, as you say, early modern english. Thanks for naming the right category.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> Back in 2003, Rondellus came out with "Sabbatum: Medieval Tribute to Black Sabbath". See [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX2y51ixsu8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX2y51ixsu8) for their version of War Pigs, titled "Verres Militares".

In 2006, Richard Thompson included a short (30 second) instrumental riff on "Oops I Did It Again" in medieval style, titled "Marry Ageyn Hic Hev Donne Yt", as part of his "1000 Years of Popular Music" album. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIMJDNQx0B4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIMJDNQx0B4) . He jokingly referred to it as a "medieval ballad from Brittany".

I'm sure there are other precursors.

</comment><comment><USER51> I've made a playlist of the few dozen youtube links posted here: [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL55akf-- 9BvWcN-V7M3z0...](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL55akf-- 9BvWcN-V7M3z0jSMCAPFsNCWs)

</comment><comment><USER52> No mention of Stary Olsa?

Death in Rome does neofolk covers of pop songs.

<comment><USER53> I do believe I actually stumbled across Stary Olsa playing at a Renaissance Faire in Texas. They blew my mind. I kept thinking, "how did they end up in Texas?" Nice folks, also.

</comment></comment><comment><USER54> rather adjacent to bardcore:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_Pjm_yq9V4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_Pjm_yq9V4)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4p_yFsGyfM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4p_yFsGyfM)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3I7wT2U294](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3I7wT2U294)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bdT5Ov- AWQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bdT5Ov-AWQ)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HtvH34CmZY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HtvH34CmZY)

edit: links added

</comment><comment><USER55> When is a genre a -core and when is a genre a -wave?

<comment><USER56> If you just quiet down and listen it's a-core. If you take your hands and wave them like you just don't care, it's a-wave.

Just kidding, I have no idea.

</comment></comment><comment><USER57> I kinda like this bardcore version of Creep by Radiohead.-> [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeFiIjMIlRw&pbjreload=101](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeFiIjMIlRw&pbjreload=101)

</comment><comment><USER58> Youtube hadn't shown me any of these songs yet, so this posting was my introduction. I watched a bunch and it's a fun trend--now I suppose I'll see them recommended.

My observation is that finally those history majors, English majors, and music majors in college (universities in the US) will pay off with a bit of attention. I often see some in the tech crowd dismiss the humanities, suggesting that non-STEM degrees that don't lead to a lucrative career are a waste. Well, I think this shows that having some people who know those things makes life a bit better for everyone.

</comment><comment> chroem- Finally, something to go with my pirate metal.

<comment><USER19> thanks for the genre tip!

drum & bugle metal: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td3c5rNFLew](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td3c5rNFLew)

too far inland to be pirates? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGko10RIGtY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGko10RIGtY)

<comment><USER43> that second song is dope. in regards to the genre of pirate metal this is my understanding to be one of the more popular bands (and a very fun song): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f55CqLc6IR0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f55CqLc6IR0)

<comment><USER59> I'm partial to Storm Seeker, which is more traditional folk metal combined with pirate metal. Their lyrics aren't really humorous, either. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCnttPJHt6s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCnttPJHt6s)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER60> As enjoyable as this is, I still can't help but to worry that it's another imitation of something historical or traditional eclipsing the actual thing it is meant to pay homage to. Let's not forget the original, else we run the risk of forgetting, and the closest thing becomes and imitation of an imitation. I'll search medieval music and so often I find modern, original, creations. It can be great and sometimes I'm in the mood for it, but I want us to have as a culture a memory of our older arts.

<comment><USER6> That's more a search / trending issue I think.

Absolutely the best way to remember things through history and keep them alive is to keep making them.

The commitment some of these artists are showing to ensure the language & pronunciation is as accurate as possible is astounding. Really, this is a hell of a way to get kids interested in old languages when they're being taught at school.

Rather a cynical view you're taking I think.

<comment><USER20> A few years ago, there was a Westerner who got together with a couple of Japanese craftsmen and started producing ukiyo-e -- Japanese woodblock prints -- of Super Mario, Link, Samus, and other video game characters rendered in a traditional style with the hope of reviving interest in the style.

It turns out that ukiyo-e's popularity waxed and waned over two centuries, with art audiences getting bored of it until some new artist found a way to make the medium contemporary and relevant again with new subject matter. So, far from trivializing a great Japanese tradition by associating it with material from his vidya, he was keeping it alive the exact same way Japanese artists kept it alive over the centuries.

<comment><USER61> [https://ukiyoeheroes.com/](https://ukiyoeheroes.com/)

<comment><USER62> Also check out [https://mokuhankan.com/](https://mokuhankan.com/) for the woodblock printer

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER63> Well, I mean, if you were on youtube in the past few months and outside of the default suggestion trashpile, I can't imagine how you'd manage to evade this phenomenon.

<comment><USER64> By having tuned home pages? I never see music suggested to me on YouTube (assumably because I don't listen to music on YouTube)

<comment><USER63> That's a bit of a loss on your part: Youtube has, ahem, a large music library—my favorite litmus test is the presence of Gruuthaagy's output. And secondly, Youtube's recommendations surface some great stuff once in a while, if you manage to teach it that your taste is not quite generic.

One of my musical pastimes formerly was searching for two disparate genres together on YT. (However, apparently either I've reached the limit of that configuration space, at least for now—or it's Google's algo killing the results by becoming too imprecise.)

<comment><USER19> YT is how I discovered techno contradance is a thing.

Still have yet to have had it turn up decent electro bluegrass, but it did find some album-oriented bluegrass: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zLMsvaRWhY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zLMsvaRWhY)

<comment><USER63> Well, if I try to imagine electric bluegrass, I get rockabilly.

My favorite cover of DSotM is the meh-titled 'Jazz Side of the Moon' by Yahel, Moreno, Hoenig and Blake. More specifically, it's the only worthy cover so far imo (though the bluegrass one is a quite strong contender, yeah). Surprisingly 'JSotM' isn't on YT in entirety—which is the greatly preferred mode of listening to it—but some snatches can be had at [https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Yahel%2C+Moreno...](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Yahel%2C+Moreno%2C+Hoenig%2C+Blake)

P.S. As for techno contra dance: I like my techno on the harder side, so expected something in the vein of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep_35FTnYVA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep_35FTnYVA) or [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48laJC8wYl4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48laJC8wYl4). After seeing some fine synchronized pair dancing, of the jumpstyle-shuffle sort, it's quite conceivable for me.

<comment><USER19> Electro bluegrass to me wouldn't be rockabilly[1], but the high lonesome equivalent of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gApq7K78pbo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gApq7K78pbo) complete with glitched hemiolas.

I'm trying to refind some of the better audio/video mashups I've seen, but fighting The Algorithm atm.

\- BLM cupid shuffle video / audio: boot scoot boogie

\- Footloose line dance video / audio: boom boom boom

\- vertically spinning race car crash video / audio: lezginka

At least there's still jumpstyle hopak: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqEtq34dSUo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqEtq34dSUo)

and (not even externally mashed up) bolly[wood] ciao: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2wahu8bDMo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2wahu8bDMo)

[1] even "electric bluegrass" I'd put closer to [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg1AD0GBii4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg1AD0GBii4)

Bonus track: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr7718xoeMI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr7718xoeMI)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER65> Forty Six & 2 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rauFQHnfDLc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rauFQHnfDLc)

</comment><comment><USER66> I have also recently learned about "dungeon synth," which was a pleasant surprise. Plenty of compilations and examples if you do a YouTube search.

<comment><USER63> From just the name, I feel like it should resemble Burzum's prison years.

Edit: in practice, what I hear so far sounds more like a mod-tracker version of Summoning. Really, for actual atmospheric black-fantasy synth stuff, Summoning is the name to look up. (The old albums are greatly preferable: e.g. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JgLFdNSwks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JgLFdNSwks))

</comment></comment><comment><USER67> I really like the "THE REAL SLIM SHADY" Cover from Beedle the Bardcore. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3okjFDo2aSU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3okjFDo2aSU)

EDIT: "WITHOUT ME" ist also great [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiV7hwfLXGE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiV7hwfLXGE)

<comment><USER23> Oh, that top comment[1] for the slim shady one is epic. I want to see that performed now.

1: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3okjFDo2aSU&lc=UgxGPmAFigFUR...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3okjFDo2aSU&lc=UgxGPmAFigFUR- XANcN4AaABAg)

</comment></comment><comment><USER68> This is great!

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbEKIW3pUUk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbEKIW3pUUk)

</comment><comment><USER69> This can make decent ambience for D&D, before the game starts at least. Sometimes in game as well in a tavern or some such place.

</comment><comment><USER70> Interesting about two weeks ago I discovered Bardcore when I was looking for cues to use in online roll d20 games.

I am playing a PF2 gnome bard which is what triggered the search, though I was looking initially for circus style music and things lie the original intro to mack the knife (german version)

</comment><comment><USER71> Oh, I didn't know. Nice genre. My favourite so far: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCUx9nOt9u8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCUx9nOt9u8)

</comment><comment><USER72> This one is quite incredible. System of a Down - aerials Bardcore [https://youtu.be/tAVkuRKwuDI](https://youtu.be/tAVkuRKwuDI)

</comment><comment><USER73> Not bardcore, but I'll throw in some Norton Commander for my HN friends...

[https://youtu.be/qmVeQEysvtk](https://youtu.be/qmVeQEysvtk)

<comment><USER19> The Putin propaganda[1] reply: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fix7P6aGXQ&t=100](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fix7P6aGXQ&t=100)

[1] This clip is a Sotchi submarine. (We're in the alps and therefore don't have a real beach, so not only do we have artificial beaches, we're building an artificial surf pool near our slopes to stay competitive.) Natali's pop propaganda has been even less subtle in the past: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPdxUyUUhes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPdxUyUUhes)

more factory girls in propaganda: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23741907](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23741907)

</comment></comment><comment><USER74> An example of Bardcore for any Code Geass fans out there: [https://youtu.be/-6aUHWI13TM](https://youtu.be/-6aUHWI13TM)

</comment><comment><USER75> Don't forget the oud!

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsHeDpGcZVM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsHeDpGcZVM)

<comment><USER76> The Hurdy-Gurdy would also be interesting to see in such songs.

</comment></comment><comment><USER77> Thanks, now I know what the play on my next remote D&D session!

</comment><comment><USER78> I wonder if someone mistyped "hardcore", and then thought "bardcore sounds like an interesting genre, I should make some".

</comment><comment><USER79> This is great :D

</comment><comment><USER80> Ha! I love it!

</comment><comment><USER81> lit</comment>


ReadyForZero Raises $260K To Help Cleanse Consumers Of Credit Card Debt - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/28/readyforzero-raises-260k-to-help-cleanse-consumers-of-credit-card-debt/

<comment><USER2> congrats to rod and ignacio. lots of opportunity here to clean up this industry.</comment>


Show HN: Beta Users Now - <AUTHOR> http://www.betausersnow.com/

<comment><USER2> I'm wondering how the cash out works. I have completed one beta testing and it shows $5.00 as my available balance.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> We created BetaUsersNow.com with the goal of allowing startups get immediate access to a pool of Targeted users and immediate feedback during their beta phase. During past 7 months of our own beta phase, we have been signing up users from all walks of life and have collected their detailed demographic information - including city, state, country, Gender,Birth Year, Yearly Household Income, marital Status, Web/Computer Expertise, Web Usage on a Typical Day, Areas of Interest and device ownership (iPhone, iPad) etc. This will allow a recently launched startup to directly go to a pool of its target demographics and test products out. In a nutshell, BetaUsersNow will provide you a pool of targeted users, that fall within your target demographics, who will signnup at your website, follow your instructions to use your website, app and give you actionable feedback.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts.</comment>


Ask HN: Is Angular Dead Yet? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> I work for a publicly-traded company and we use it quite heavily, though it's not the only thing we use. I've heard secondhand that there's a lot of AngularJS (aka Angular v1) out there too. Far more Angular 2+, however.

</comment><comment><USER3> Pretty much, yes.

After Angular 2, many users switched to React or Vue.

</comment><comment><USER4> Not yet, but it's getting close.</comment>


Male Chromosome May Evolve Fastest - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/14/science/14gene.html

<comment><USER2> Greater variance in the average reproductive success.</comment>


How Clinton's email scandal took root - <AUTHOR> https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/how-clintons-email-scandal-took-root/2016/03/27/ee301168-e162-11e5-846c-10191d1fc4ec_story.html <comment><USER2> hmmm, keeping all politics out of this...

seems like she at a minimum she doesn't 'get' technology and didn't understand why this was a big deal at the time. seems pretty clear cut at least that she refused to keep communication hygiene although being repeatedly warned. regardless of however you view her intent seems to at a minimum reflect a profound lack of discipline.

without doubt whatever is on those servers is known to every significant power who cares to know. hopefully nothing to important is out there... honestly the biggest risk is probably her being blackmailed left and right with the release of classified information from these servers...

<comment><USER3>
        > without doubt whatever is on those servers is known
        > to every significant power who cares to know

Source?

<comment><USER2> there is no source for this. just seems reasonable.

it was a well used email address by a standing'secretary of state of the united states'... this is definitely a target for world wide intelligence agencies.

couple this with the fact it is known that it was improperly configured from a security standpoint for at least a few months...

just given the value of the target and the lack of security i am making the assumption that the information is out there.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> That was the best timeline on the subject that I have seen. Personally, I doubt that she did anything overtly illegal, but I think she showed very poor judgement.

</comment><comment><USER5> So an average of 5-6 threads per day (assuming ~3.75 messages per thread) now qualifies as an unmanageable torrent of email?

</comment><comment><USER6> > Because Clinton did not use desktop computers, she relied on her personal > BlackBerry, which she had started using three years earlier.

I suppose important political figures have aides to handle a lot of mundane tasks for them, but I still find it hard to believe that a major power player in 2016 doesn't use a desktop/laptop to organize information.

By the way, enjoy this very vaguely related essay: [https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/vl/notes/havel.html](https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/vl/notes/havel.html)

<comment><USER7> Of course, she just doesn't use any PC _owned_ by her because then naturally that is subject to the same disclosure/retention laws.

In the same sense that _Albright and Rice said they did not use email while at State_ for the very same reason; they are not technically illiterate, they just don't want their communication public. There have been many cases of people in power not using technology at all:

[http://www.texaswatchdog.org/2008/09/govs-to-public-stay- out...](http://www.texaswatchdog.org/2008/09/govs-to-public-stay-out-of-our-e- mail/)</comment></comment>


Google Co-Founders Give Up Management Roles – Sundar Pichai to lead Alphabet - <AUTHOR> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/larry-page-steps-down-at-alphabet-sundar-pichai-to-lead-both-alphabet-google-as-ceo-213715829.html <comment><USER2> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21696954](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21696954)</comment>


Show HN: A pure Python implemention of Apache Thrift - <AUTHOR> https://thriftpy.readthedocs.org/

<comment><USER2> Great to see some competition to the official (and slightly unloved) implementation, especially since you're working on accelerated binary protocol, which the official implementation lacks (at least last I checked!). One thing I'd suggest, though:

> Can import thrift file as normal py modules. The sdk code is generated on > the fly.

This kind of thing immediately puts me off using the module. Messing with process-global state just for the sake of convenience really isn't worth the risk, if your intention is to develop serious software, where lives and livelihoods might at some point depend on its reliability. As "import this" puts it, "special cases aren't special enough to break the rules."

Would rather see the module import hook stuff removed, or at least easily disabled. (e.g. have you tried to see how it works in combination with something like py2exe? I suspect it will break)

<comment><AUTHOR> I just updated the code, now the magic import hook is disabled by default, and can be install/remove by func.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> The support for Python3 here is killer; Thrift amazingly has yet to merge a number of patches that would enable py3 support despite many requests.

</comment><comment><USER4> I like the fact that its pure python. This makes it perfect for use on PyPy or Jython. +1

</comment><comment><USER5> This doesn't appear to support TCompactProtocol, which in the official Python implementation uses a different byte-order on the wire than the official implementation in every other language.

[https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/THRIFT-1639](https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/THRIFT-1639)

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, currently only binary protocol was implemented.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Interesting. There is a similar project for Go with an alternative compiler and implementation: [https://github.com/samuel/go- thrift](https://github.com/samuel/go-thrift)

Last I checked, the state of the default thrift Go bindings was very lacking, so I'm using this library instead.

</comment><comment><USER7> No support for SSL/TLS transport? Or am I just not finding it in the sources? :-/</comment>


Lawnmower Parents Are the New Helicopter Parents - <AUTHOR> https://www.weareteachers.com/lawnmower-parents/ <comment><USER2> > Lawnmower parents go to whatever lengths necessary to prevent their child > from having to face adversity, struggle, or failure.

This is pretty much exactly what the term "helicopter parent" refers to, so this just seems to be inventing a new word for a phenomenon which has been well-known and widely complained about—with its own special term—since the 1980s.

<comment><USER3> I thought the same thing, but in another article about "lawnmower parents", "helicopter parent" is defined as parents who rush to help their child when he/she encounters an obstacle. I guess the idea of "lawnmower parents" is that they do the work upfront so the kid never even knew there was an obstacle.

In any case, I tend to agree with you, looks like the same thing.

<comment><USER4> Helicopter parents hover over their children and clear away obstacles whenever they appear.

Lawnmower parents however clear away obstacles beforehand.

<comment><USER2> Sure, that's what all the generalizations say. All the actual _examples_ I've seen cited in articles about Lawnmower parenting are identical to examples I've seen cited in articles about helicopter parenting, and many of them are reactive, not proactive (in fact, the lead one in the article here is reactive to the child's complaint.)

So, to the extent that there is a difference in how the labels are described, it doesn't seem to have any substance at all when it comes to the actual concrete phenomena they are used to describe; if it's not a conscious creation of a new label because complaints about the old one were so well worn as to no longer draw attention (which I suspect it is), it's just a different perception of the underlying thought process behind the same behavior.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Not much content here, just an anecdote. "Don't over-parent"

In particular, there wasn't any evidence supporting the implications by the title that Lawnmower Parents are a new, rising phenomenon.</comment>


Tough love: Linux needs more haters - <AUTHOR> http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=9370

<comment><USER2> LinuxHater's just trying to point out some of the mad stuff we need to fix so that folks who don't want to learn to love the command line can learn to love linux too. Printers have been diabolical to set up in unix & linux forever! (PS: man-in-the-street can't administer any OS that's why they need all the help they can get)

<comment><USER3> Exactly. Linux hater shows the things Linux apps need to fix so that Linux can become a desktop OS for mainstream people (beyond the limited eeePC-type environments), and that everyone else can get the hardware and app support they want as a result.

I love the site, and I suspect the people who react badly to it are those that don't actually know as much about the platform as the author does.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Maybe I should set up a blog called 'FreeBSD Haters', the first post could be on why getting a printer to work is so hard, and the second on why Firefox doesn't work properly...

<comment><USER5> Does FreeBSD try to be a desktop replacement for the everyman?

<comment><USER4> It depends what you mean by 'desktop replacement' and 'everyman'... I'm a programmer, I use FreeBSD at home, and it's great for development. It's also pretty good for multimedia, for example I now much prefer Amarok to iTunes.

The only downside is that a few things are ridiculously difficult when (in my opinion) they shouldn't be, for example setting up printers.

I don't think the average 'man in the street' could install FreeBSD as a Windows replacement, but then they couldn't administer Windows properly either.

<comment><USER6> I use FreeBSD on my desktop, and years of hardware problems has taught me to be very selective in the hardware that I buy.

For example, I only buy networked printers that support Postscript, such as many HP or Kyocera models. Then one line in /etc/printcap is all that is needed to be away and printing.

Similar story for networking devices, RAID cards, etc... you buy the ones you that are reputed to work well and avoid the others..

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> <http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/>

Also, Anyone have a link to the thread were linus talks about the benchmark as a bug report?

</comment><comment><USER8> This article slipped through the cracks a few days ago: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=249387></comment>


"The Self" in the Future - Will it be Extinguished by Neuroscience? - <AUTHOR> http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/pellissier20120516

<comment><USER2> I'm always surprised that a discussion about the nature of the self can occur without any reference to Buddhist understanding of non-self, which seems to have sussed this out over 2000 years ago.</comment>


Ask HN: "I See Dead Comments." - <AUTHOR> Sorry for appealing to your Sixth Sense on this one...<p>What exactly are [dead] comments on HN? I see that I have a setting to turn them on/off, but I don't understand what they are in the first place. Thanks! <comment><USER2> you can turn the dead on or off as youve noticed. with higher karma you can vouch comments that you are sure are not spam, or contribute in a meaningfull ["substantial"] manner.

</comment><comment><USER3> [dead] comments are typically from banned/shadowbanned users. Articles/comments with both [flagged] and [dead] were flagkilled.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! So it's a moderator action as opposed to self-delete?

<comment><USER2> BTW self delete is not good to do on HN. likely has to do with keeping people accountable. potentially someone could post nasty stuff wait until the target reads it and delete said nastiness before it gets locked in thus avoiding accountability.

edit your comments dont delete them., and if you get the "your posting too fast thing" email one of the mods and have a chat with them to find out what triggered it and how to move on from there.</comment></comment></comment>


Facebook begins testing ad-driven polls - <AUTHOR> http://venturebeat.com/2009/01/27/facebook-begins-testing-ad-driven-polls/

<comment><USER2> This is probably a good idea. I can't remember when I last clicked on a Facebook Ad.

Also, this is a little random, but why are Facebook Ads on the right (I know it has been like this since they released the new version)? Don't most people read from left to right? I've found that I notice Facebook Ads now far less than I used to.</comment>


Datadex public beta: Find and exchange data easily - <AUTHOR> https://datadex.net <comment><AUTHOR> Hi Everyone,

We're excited to share with you our first public beta release of Datadex. We're a cloud service start-up that helps organizations and data scientists share data with proper security, privacy and governance. You can make your data findable and evaluate matches based on metadata analysis alone. Then make or approve requests for data exchange with others.

Take is for a spin and let us know what you think!</comment>


A community for NEET/shut-in individuals - <AUTHOR> https://www.neetforum.com <comment><USER2> Glancing thru the posts there it looks like this isn't classical "shut-in"s but for full-fledged agoraphobes.

</comment><comment><USER3> but... there already is a 4chan...</comment>


Steve Jobs: Beauty justifies wealth  - <AUTHOR> http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/08/steve-jobs?fsrc=rss <comment><USER2> So he hasn't given money to charity, yet. He has contributed a ridiculous amount to the world by way of Apple, NeXT, and Pixar. He has created tens of thousands of jobs and brought communicative and creative power to millions of people. Who knows what he's going to do with his money? He's dedicated his life to building things for other people, so what makes anyone think he won't do something that benefits others with his money?

<comment><USER3> I think the major point of the article was that jobs is getting something of a free pass amongst his billionaire peers. I think the last line sums it up pretty well:

"[O]ur intuitions about economic desert and fair distribution are...complicated."

Fair distribution is the real issue. There is a great quote from Warren Buffet on the matter:

"My wealth has come from a combination of living in America, some lucky genes, and compound interest. Both my children and I won what I call the ovarian lottery. (For starters, the odds against my 1930 birth taking place in the U.S. were at least 30 to 1. My being male and white also removed huge obstacles that a majority of Americans then faced.) My luck was accentuated by my living in a market system that sometimes produces distorted results, though overall it serves our country well. I've worked in an economy that rewards someone who saves the lives of others on a battlefield with a medal, rewards a great teacher with thank-you notes from parents, but rewards those who can detect the mispricing of securities with sums reaching into the billions. In short, fate's distribution of long straws is wildly capricious." (<http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Warren_Buffett>)

Basically capitalism aims to drive capital (and thus wealth) towards those members of society who are the most productive. However capitalism has a very limited sense of productivity and thus it may discount some things that matter a lot in human society. So distortions will exist and one could reasonably assume that any one at steve jobs or warren buffets level is the lucky recipient of riding some kind of capitalistic distortion to the top. It's is up to society and culture to decide what is ultimately fair and as the OP said it's complicated...

<comment><USER2> Peers? He ends by comparing Jobs to oil executives. Oil companies are ridiculously subsidized by the US government in many ways, the most egregious being the use of the military to secure major pipelines at the cost of trillions of dollars and many lives. Those subsidies end up not-so-indirectly as the compensation for said executives. Apple is a company that takes raw materials and ideas and manufactures some of the most desirable products in the world. If everyone wants to give him their money of their own free will, what's the problem? Oil companies don't give you a choice. Even before purchasing a single drop of gas, each American has literally given them tens of thousands of dollars by way of taxes and the deficit. They are vilified for a reason. Just because they have similar orders of magnitude of money doesn't mean that the same moral judgements need to be made of them.

The whole article is a disingenuous troll piece.

Another example is the initial appeal to the universal hatred of software patents. Yes, IP laws are horrible when it comes to software, but it is ridiculous to claim that Apple's riches are dependent on them. The author is grasping to associate Jobs with the standard "evils."

<comment><USER3> He also compares jobs to people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett. The oil executives were being used as a polar example of the kinds of opinions that people can have about the very wealthy. I don't believe the author was trolling. He was pointing out simply the variety of opinions that people often have about the very wealthy and the fact that Jobs seems to rise above it.

The main point is not about good/evil, it's about fairness. You may think that it's fair that Jobs is so wealthy because he deserves it for all his hard work (and im not saying that he hasn't worked very hard and done a very good job at that). But the question is if it's fair. Warren Buffett admitted that he didn't think it was particularly fair that he is as wealthy as he is, or (more recently) that he pays as little in taxes as he does.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Why do any stockholders ever allow corporations to choose causes and give away their money? Does that have some kind of tax advantage over putting the money back in the hands of its owners and having them make the decision? Is it a PR thing?

<comment><USER3> I believe it's a morality thing.

<comment><USER4> Why is it more moral to watch corporations I've invested in give away my money, hoping that at least some of it may reach the causes I would have given it to?

<comment><USER3> For one thing you are the investor, so you don't have to invest in them if you don't believe in the same causes they do, or if you don't believe that corporations should be engaging in charity at all.

As for the question of "why is it more moral...?" I'm not sure what you are comparing to...</comment></comment></comment></comment>


The Architecture of Datomic - <AUTHOR> http://www.infoq.com/articles/Architecture-Datomic

<comment><USER2> Datomic is intriguing and powerful but I'd be reluctant to use a proprietary database developed by such a small company. I think Riak has a better model for free/paid usage. There is nothing like Datomic but there are so many excellent open-source databases these days.

<comment><USER3> I agree completely; we are looking at tech choices for a new project and Datomic is an excellent fit for the way we want our systems to work, but we're just not comfortable with the closed/paid model, especially for such a young product. For now we are looking at ways to use an accumulation based system (vs update-in-place) in PostgreSQL. If anyone has any experience with this I'd love to hear about it!

<comment><USER4> There is another database which can be used in the 'accumulation-based' space: <http://geteventstore.com>

It has the same main drawbacks as Datomic - it's young and multi-node deployment comes with commercial plan only, however it's really fast and easy to work with once you embrace the event-sourcing programming model.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Related: presentation on how datomic was written in clojure <http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Datomic>

</comment><comment><USER6> Sorry for going off-topic, but is there any explanation why InfoQ does not have an entry on Wikipedia?

Is it just because no one has bothered to do it yet, or is there some other reason why this quite big, and frequently cited, site is not on Wikipedia?</comment>


Workspace of the Future (teaser video) - <AUTHOR> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMrUlNANPkQ

<comment><USER2> At 1st I thought that this video was just going to be another example of the wadsworth constant.

[http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/kxfxy/and_so_ends_20_y...](http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/kxfxy/and_so_ends_20_years_of_frustration/c2o1cyy?context=3)

But then I checked and saw that I was already about 75% of the way through the video.

Finally at about 90% there was 2 screenshots.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMrUlNANPkQ&t=1m6s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMrUlNANPkQ&t=1m6s)

<comment><AUTHOR> thanks for the compliment, :) so you liked the future workspace screenshots?</comment></comment>


Ask HN: How could search results change so most clicks don't go to spots #1-3? - <AUTHOR> Could they be displayed differently to help people find the right information faster? <comment><USER2> How do you define the "right information"? And if the results are sorted properly, why wouldn't it be in spots #1-3?

<comment><AUTHOR> It could be defined a number of ways. Google, for instance, has said in the past that they strive to provide accurate information but they are not a "truth engine". So the "right" results would vary across many different criteria, which Google already partly does with more personalized results based on things like location.

I'm really just wondering if there's an objective "good" to having the results displayed the way they are currently (a list of links with SERP features added in), as right now the vast majority of clicks go to the top results. (And also to ads, maps, SERP features, etc.)</comment></comment>


Show HN: Why we built Devarist, the developer's diary - <AUTHOR> https://devarist.com/blog

<comment><USER2> The sign up with google button doesnt seem to be working for me.

<comment><AUTHOR> Wow how embarrassing! Thanks for letting me know. It's now fixed.</comment></comment>


How we develop products for 3.2M users - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/swlh/how-we-develop-products-for-3-2m-users-f5ec8895ee47 <comment><AUTHOR> I followed a "work behind closed doors and make big releases" during the first 5 years. It didn't work well. Then, I followed the continuous improvement method for the next 5 years. That also did not work. Finally, I found my own approach to development in the last 2-3 years. And it is working amazingly so far. We have had 900K signups in 2017.

</comment><comment><USER2> Being a trend setter or a trend spotter. Not an easy talent but what it takes to create supply and or demand in the consumer market. Much of that time should be spend on marketing and acquisition.</comment>