New Dropbox Homepage - <AUTHOR> https://www.dropbox.com/?home

<comment><USER2> Looks great, absolutely. My concern is why websites like this tend to "hide" or de-value the login link.

I regularly have to access the Dropbox website, but with every change they make the login button seems to get smaller and smaller. I get that they're a business and need new customers, but it feels like existing customers "just aren't that important."

<comment><USER3> Because that's not the primary access point. You normally log in through the app. For cases where you want to use the website, the app provides you a link to it that automatically logs you in.

It's de-valued because the majority of people that see this page are looking to sign up, learn more about Dropbox, or download the app. This page is optimized for those common use cases.

<comment><USER4> There's a perfectly valid use case for using the Dropbox site to get to your files. A huge benefit of Dropbox is the ability to access your files anywhere, including a computer that does not or even cannot have the client installed. I'm thinking of a library machine at your university, your grandmother's computer, a friend's computer where you don't want to sign them out of their own desktop client, a work laptop where you're not allowed to install your own software, etc.

<comment><USER5> yea, and it's pretty clear where to log in.

<comment><USER2> Certainly is. The problem is that the link seems to get smaller and more hidden with each update.

Even without seeing the numbers I think it's obvious why they're doing it, I'm just wondering: is there a better way to callout the login for existing users without interfering too much with the process for potential customers?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> The download button is where the signin button should be. Having login in the upper righthand corner is a long seated UX pattern - there is very little logic to messing with it. Now every time I go to signin, I'm going to accidentally download dropbox.

This is going to confuse the hell out of non-technical people like my dad, a dropbox user, but not a very patient one. I'm sure I'll get a confused call from him in a few days... Plus, I'll have to go into his downloads folder several times a year to remove all the dropbox install files that were inadvertently downloaded.

<comment><USER7> I don't want to judge your dad, but does he actually read links before clicking them?

<comment><USER6> That's a good point, a lot of people don't. That's why its prudent to use good UX patterns.

Everybody knows that signin is the upper righthand corner.

Breaking the mold to progress a pattern or for a specific project is fine, but the login? There's 0 reasons for this.

<comment><USER8> Wait, what?

You have literally three links on that page. Each at MAX two words.

If there's a person who wouldn't even read a total of five words when they see a new interface then I really don't want them to be my customer. They sound like far more trouble than they're worth.

<comment><USER9> How about instead of looking at the people who take exception to the position of the download link in the right top, we look at why you're so dead set on having it there?

That's the same kind of logic.

People who expect the login link at that spot might as well reverse that attitude on you, and think to themselves: "if there's a person who insists on putting the download link where the login button usually resides, then I really don't want to be their customer. They sound like far more trouble then they're worth."

I guess the both of you will be happy, but also, the both of you will miss out.

Not a great attitude in business or UI design.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Note for "international" users (including myself): set English from the language chooser. Otherwise, it'll just show the (translated) old version. If you're logged in, you should also open the site in incognito mode (or log out, eh).

</comment><comment><USER11> Looks great! Considering how the concept of a web + desktop app can confuse some less savvy users of the internet, these animations do a great job of conveying what Dropbox does. They're concise, expressive, and apparently very efficient in terms of performance. (frame data says the animations ran consistently ~60fps)

I haven't got the chance to see how the site looks on mobile, however. Anyone seen this on a phone or tablet?

<comment><USER12> On my S3 [http://dropbox.com](http://dropbox.com) redirects to [https://www.dropbox.com/login?display=desktop](https://www.dropbox.com/login?display=desktop) \-- [https://www.dropbox.com/?display=desktop](https://www.dropbox.com/?display=desktop), however, does display this new lander and it works just fine. Animations and everything. Looks great to me.

<comment><USER13> Thank you. I was trying to avoid being the who asks what's different. iPhone 4 IOS6 redirects me too (and I couldn't tell as my HN app doesn't display the URL) I see the new and like it now.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I'm sometimes a skeptic of flat design, but the flattened Dropbox icon looks awesome on the new site.

<comment><USER11> Not entirely flat design on the new homepage (the buttons have form), but the new wiki design[0] does seem almost entirely flat without bandwagoning. Confusingly, the old logo is still present in the new wiki.

[0][http://new.dropboxwiki.com/](http://new.dropboxwiki.com/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Instead of a home page I want to see a status page with actual updates that happen when an outage occurs. Dropbox has the worst response time of any host I know, and their reactions are lethargic at best. When my contract is up I'm moving to something else.

<comment><USER16> have you considered that maybe when dropbox SREs get paged they get busy fixing the site, not updating the status page?

<comment><USER15> It takes 10 seconds to tweet "Experiencing and issue" and then another 10 seconds to explain why after they figure it out. It's not rocket science.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Great job! Small nitpick that's bothering me: The 'Sign up' & 'Download' text inside the bottom buttons is not vertically centered. (This is on Chrome 27.0.1453.110)

</comment><comment><USER18> Interesting. My question is why is this setup like a landing page of a pre- funding startup?

Or am I missing something?

<comment><USER19> What do you mean by that, exactly? That it looks simple?

<comment><USER18> It's aimed at displaying value propositions to a new user - something that startups usually focus on. I suppose Dropbox must be looking to expand their market share.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> This is nothing special. Just a few animations and sketched graphics.

Edit: curious why the downvotes? Usually we hold ourselves to high standards on this board. We bash all the little guys, but Dropbox doesn't have to be held accountable to inspiring design?

</comment><comment><USER21> It's probably a coincidence, since they'd have to have started the redesign a while back, but I wonder if we'll start seeing a bunch of "super-sparse" design now that iOS7 is out.

<comment><USER22> "super-sparse" was a bandwagon joined by apple, not the other way around...

<comment><USER23> A bandwagon joined by Apple, sure, but one that now has considerably more momentum & exposure because of their joining.

<comment><USER4> I've been seeing it massively for much longer than the past couple of weeks. Think of things like Flat UI for Bootstrap.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Unique CSS Sliding Background Buttons - <AUTHOR> http://createstopbecreative.com/2015/04/15/unique-css-sliding-background-buttons/

<comment><USER2> If this is CSS, why isn't it working in my browser?</comment>


Messages start-ups should send to their users - <AUTHOR> http://blog.intercom.io/does-your-app-have-a-message-schedule/

<comment><USER2> Great actionable insights. A good heads up to have another critical look at our own messaging schedule. I especially like the message anatomy examples. Timing messages on specific event triggers, instead of just session counts would even make more sense.

</comment><comment><USER3> Thoughtful article. Well done.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks John.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Interesting post, and interesting blog generally: well written, nicely presented, and informative with it. My compliments.

At the risk of going off-topic, I'll share some hopefully constructive feedback on the main Intercom site. This was my experience (as someone who is working in what appears to be your target market):

1\. Read "Intercom is a next-generation CRM and messaging product. It helps web businesses build relationships with their users and turn them into loyal customers."

2\. It's all empty buzzwords but the blog post was interesting, so I'll take a look.

3\. Look at mostly illegible slides on home page.

4\. Read jerky scrolling thing on home page until literally feeling sick (less than one minute).

5\. Still have no idea what Intercom actually is (app? web site? back office tool?) or what it does (empty headlines are empty; how does it actually work?).

6\. Can't find any more details. Not going to sign up or try anything out without way more than this.

I suspect you have something really interesting in there, and possibly even something one of my colleagues (who deals with marketing and customer relationships) might be interested in investigating. But for a company that seems to be all about messaging, your messaging is... lacking. :-)</comment>


The Intimacy of Crowds - <AUTHOR> http://aeon.co/magazine/living-together/crowds-show-us-working-together-at-our-best

<comment><USER2> > Thousands took to the streets of London and other English towns in the UK's > worst outbreak of civil unrest in a generation. When police finally restored > order after some six days of violence and vandalism, everyone from the Prime > Minister David Cameron to newspaper columnists of every political persuasion > denounced the mindless madness, incredulous that a single killing, horrific > as it was, could spark the conflagration at hand. The most popular theory > was that rioters had surrendered their self-awareness and rationality to the > mentality of the crowd.

The most popular theory? This is the first time i've ever heard of it.

The most popular theory i heard was that a lot of people realised that they could loot some shops without getting caught. The more people who joined in the looting, the thinner the police were stretched, and the safer it was to join in.

<comment><USER3> I believe it is subverted anger and perceived injustice that causes these types of riots. I don't think people think "hey, I can get some free stuff", but I do think they have the "man, this pisses me off" in mind when they leave for the gathering.

Look at the Watts riots in the 60's. I think everyone, at this vantage point in time, believes that was caused by the deplorable conditions there and the state of civil rights for blacks, and not because people wanted stuff for free.

The 2007 financial crisis had far ranging effects, and some of them take a while to percolate down and cause problems. My city is next door to a poorer one, and the first thing I thought of was, eventually, the crime in my neighborhood would go up. It took 3 years, but it happened.

<comment><USER2> I think injustice fed into these riots, but more indirectly. I don't think people were driven to rioting by anger at injustice ("man, this pisses me off"). But i do think that injustice had eroded restraints on their behaviour, because they no longer felt part of the society which owned the shops ("screw the rich guys who own this place").

Which was ironic, because the shops looted were almost all in the rioters' neighbourhoods, and many of them will have been owned, outright or as franchises, by local people.

I don't know much about the Watts riots, but my impression is that they were quite different. There, most of the participants were attacking the police or any white people they came across, rather than looting their own neighbourhood. The Broadwater Farm and poll tax riots in London were the same - battles between the authorities and people angry at the authorities. The 2011 riots were quite different.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Sadly it's not just the sciences that are grossly misunderstood by the public (and this misunderstanding exploited by politicians).

I find this quotation in the article the most interesting:

"'What the rioters appeared to be seeking was fuller participation in the social order and the material benefits enjoyed by the majority of American citizens,' it concluded. 'Rather than rejecting the American system, they were anxious to obtain a place for themselves in it.'"

We see this time and again: demonstration and revolt come from those who have something to gain (or lose), not from the truly wretched. From the French revolution to the 60s in Europe and the USA, to Korea in the 80s/90s to Venezuela today.

Yet my kid was still told in school this year that the French revolution was the peasants rising up. It's not like that theory is believed by any academics but still it hasn't filtered down to school.

Likewise, as this article describes it, the idea of "the madness of crowds" is well established in the popular mind, even though it's thoroughly discredited by academic research.

Yet policy is made based on crazy beliefs. I am still a fan of democracy, but when the kids are fed a rasher of discredited bullshit in high school it's hard to see how it can function.

<comment><USER5> Years ago I heard/read a quotation (that I cannot find a source for now) to the effect of: "Revolution is the upper and middle classes trading places"

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> The crowds I've got caught up in made me lose much of my inhibitions and sense of self. The things I did, I would not have done alone through rational action. I think the article overplays its hand.

</comment><comment><USER7> I'll borrow this... straw man? to make a simpler point:

> social psychologist Gustave Le Bon, tried to explain crowd behaviour as a > paralysis of the brain; hypnotised by the group, the individual becomes the > slave of unconscious impulses. 'He is no longer himself, but has become an > automaton who has ceased to be guided by his will,' he wrote in 1895. > 'Isolated, he may be a cultivated individual; in a crowd, he is a barbarian… > a grain of sand amid other grains of sand, which the wind stirs up at will.'

One could just as easily say that individual behavior is paralysis of the brain, hypnotized by the culture.

If someone is more 'cultivated' as an individual, it's simply because he's had much more practice in that form- a group of people who act as one is not only possible, and quite impressive, but it takes work- willpower and practice.

This kind of article, making all kinds of guesses based on little bits of psychology research, and presenting them as facts...

This is supposed to be an illuminated tech community, so I'll say it straight: When psychology meets up with the other sciences in the form of ai research, bs like this will finally be recognized as grossly oversimplistic garbage.

I give the article a C-minus: trying to sound knowledgeable without promoting much useful information.

</comment><comment><USER8> "Drury explains that a crisis, even a minor one such as a train breaking down in a tunnel, creates a 'psychological crowd' out of what was previously an aggregate of strangers. You suddenly share a common fate and your sphere of interest ramps up from the personal to the group."

___

I wonder how this fits into a scene [1] that happened last week in Sao Paulo when bus drivers started striking and the metro became overcrowded. It wasn't due to a crisis, per se, and the metro didn't break down but sensibility surely went out the window.

My own assessment of the video below is that no one saw themselves as part of a crowd/group, but as individuals.

1 - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXycKeyDKXk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXycKeyDKXk) (btw, I shared this as an 'aside' on HN a few days ago)

</comment><comment><USER9> A very nice book on the topic is Elias Canetti's Crowds and Power (Masse und Macht). Canetti won the Nobel Prize in Literate and writes very well.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowds_and_Power](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowds_and_Power)

[http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masse_und_Macht](http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masse_und_Macht)

</comment><comment><USER10> This is a well studied field. For instance, relevant scientific literature: "How social influence can undermine the wisdom of crowd effect"

[http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2011/05/10/1008636108](http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2011/05/10/1008636108)

</comment><comment><USER11> There's a gender element too. Women have been found to be more aggressive than men in crowds. [http://psp.sagepub.com/content/20/1/34.abstract](http://psp.sagepub.com/content/20/1/34.abstract)

<comment><USER5> Incorrect: Women have been found to be _as_ aggressive than men in crowds:

> men aggressed more than women in the individuated condition, but this > difference was eliminated in the deindividuated condition.

<comment><USER11> Oh, sorry about that. I was either thinking about a different paper, or I misremembered this one.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> It reminds me of the G20 protests in Toronto, where there was a crowd of protesters and a crowd of police. According to this theory, the police did all of the abuses of power because of their society. Creepy!</comment>


Anyone have any marketing or SEO expert recommendations? - <AUTHOR>

Finally released a site I'm happy with for our new product - http://www.heroframework.com - and am looking for some recommendations for people/teams who can spread the word and build some search engine rankings up in the tough world of content management system software.<p>Anyone worked with someone they would recommend?  Someone who got results? <comment><USER2> Moz maintains a recommended list here - <http://www.seomoz.org/marketplace/companies/recommended> that might be helpful.

Wish you luck!</comment>


Intel knows it's no longer inside - <AUTHOR> http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/31/11817818/intel-computex-2016-keynote-report <comment><USER2> Have there been studies on the relative software utilization of client hardware over the years?

If clients are reduced to consumption terminals where special purpose IP blocks (e.g. video decoding) neutralize the difference between x86 and ARM, there is less justification for the price premium of a powerful general purpose CPU.

If powerful clients have large local storage and compute-oriented apps that are optimized for low-latency human interaction on large desktop monitors or VR workspaces, then there would be good reason to pay for a general purpose CPU.

A powerful desktop can also serve as a cloud to mobile devices, but a cloud server cannot offer the low-latency response of a local desktop. Why discard the one form factor that can serve both roles?

Is the problem Moore's Law or the lack of desktop software innovation and business models? If Hollywood can promote business models via PC hardware DRM (e.g. SGX), can the software industry support hardware for client-oriented business models?

<comment><USER3> The i7 from 2010 still runs fine in my gaming PC. Unlike a Pentium 3 from 2000, there have been no major speed advances in the past 6 years. True, today's i7 can push 16 threads instead of 8, but even with a full screen game, YouTube, Twitch, Chrome, and 2 game servers, it barely uses 6 threads.

The devices aren't necessarily disappearing; we just don't need new ones anymore.

<comment><USER4> I have been looking around for a replacement laptop. Historically I have primarily looked at 3 numbers. RAM, hard drive size and CPU speed. It is just for running one or more IDEs so I don't have any particularly special requirement.

I feel like CPU speeds have plateaued. Not so long ago getting a new machine after a few years meant getting a new CPU that was vastly quicker whereas all of the laptops I am looking at are only marginally faster than my ~3 year old laptop.

My hard drive requirements are not huge so it looks like I am essentially buying a new laptop just to get more RAM.

<comment><USER5> The most important speed up you can currently get is changing to an NVMe SSD running at 3 times the speed of a SATA SSD.

However, for many devices it difficult to wade through specs working out if you are actually getting NVMe (or whether you are just getting M2 SATA at the slower speed instead).

<comment><USER6> That is an important speedup if you access a lot of data compared to what your DRAM can cache, or often do a full reboot (which means cold re-reading a lot of executable images from storage). Max out the RAM first.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Anyone else think this VR stuff is going to crash and burn hard? I'm really not sure why there is so much optimism around this area, it seems way too niche to drive general trends in computing.

<comment><USER8> I'm on the fence because I'm biased against something that requires changing user behavior, like wearing headgear.

With rehashing of 3D tv in the last few years, it was obvious that it was more of a product gimmick with manufacturers than real value.

With VR, you're seeing big companies pushing into the space from a spectrum of angles, ranging from re-imagining the workspace to 3D gaming. The bigger question is whether or not VR will become commonplace before augmented reality advances enough to replace it.

<comment><USER9> Other than for gaming and watching certain kinds of videos, I can't see VR (or AR) being a huge deal. I can think of all kinds of neat things that could be done with it, but the production costs are just too high and the equipment is too clunky.

Even in gaming, I expect VR games will be only moderately successful.

<comment><USER8> I can see AR taking over the workspace, where you put on an ergo headset and see a digital overlay of multiple screens.

<comment><USER9> I'd be surprised if that became a thing outside of specialized cases like doctors seeing a patients vital signs and AI advice while they operate.

One thing I've expected to see more of is Second Life. I thought for sure all the VR hype would reinvigorate Second Life for things like online classes and virtual meetings.

<comment><USER8> No way! I can totally see replacing monitors with AR glasses. Six monitors costs $1,000+, which a headset would probably be cheaper than.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> There is one important additional fact one ought to keep in mind when reading something like this:

 _Intel derives much of its competitive advantage from its ability to manufacture._

This means that a lot of Intel's advantage will only express itself when the market grows really large. There have been a number of times when other companies beat Intel to a new technology (introducing, say, the 64 Bit chip several months ahead), but when the market took off and the cycle began, only Intel was able to deliver in sufficient quantity.

I don't know what the total market for a particular chip is likely to be, or how fast it will get there.

<comment><USER11> This just isn't correct.

Intel's big advantage has been their ability to reliably and continually improve their manufacturing process, and for this to reliably and continually deliver performance improvements (the tick/tock strategy).

 _There have been a number of times when other companies beat Intel to a new technology (introducing, say, the 64 Bit chip several months ahead), but when the market took off and the cycle began, only Intel was able to deliver in sufficient quantity._

This is entirely untrue. AMD delivered a better consumer-focused 64bit architecture, and for an entire generation the Athlon outperformed the Pentium4. Yes, Intel sold plenty, but AMD did too.

That was the last time Intel made a misstep in their x64 product line.

Nowdays, desktop chips are facing some challenges. TSMC, Samsung and other are able to deliver plenty of ARM chips to market for the phone and tablet chips. Nvidia is increasingly eating the compute market.

<comment><USER10> You've said this isn't correct a few times but nothing you've said in between contradicts anything you seem to disagree with.

<comment><USER11> I read your point as being that they can manufacture large volumes ("only Intel was able to deliver in sufficient quantity").

This wasn't the case during the x64 transition, which was the example you used. To quote Wikipedia:

 _In commercial terms, the Athlon "Classic" was an enormous success not just because of its own merits, but also because Intel endured a series of major production, design, and quality control issues at this time. In particular, Intel's transition to the 180 nm production process, starting in late 1999 and running through to mid-2000, suffered delays. There was a shortage of Pentium III parts.[citation needed] In contrast, AMD enjoyed a remarkably smooth process transition and had ample supplies available, causing Athlon sales to become quite strong_[1]

However, that was during the early 2000s. Since 2007, Intel has continually improved their processes and architectures on a reliable timeline[2], and haven't had any significant problems delivering those continual improvements.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athlon#Athlon_.22Classic.22](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athlon#Athlon_.22Classic.22)

[2] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tick- Tock_model](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tick-Tock_model)

<comment><USER10> Yes, that is what my point was. And yes, your most recent response clarifies your counterargument.

I assume you meant to say "Since 2007, AMD has continually improved..."

So I stand corrected in that I didn't realize AMD had closed the gap.

However, my point was about the relative manufacturing ability of Intel and its competitors. Am I to understand your claim that AMD's manufacturing is (approximately) as good as Intel's at the moment?

I don't have any new information, but its a very, very hard problem. And a brief google search seems to indicate that AMD has faced more recent challenges: [http://www.wired.com/2012/03/amd-global- foundries/](http://www.wired.com/2012/03/amd-global-foundries/)

<comment><USER11> _I assume you meant to say "Since 2007, AMD has continually improved..."_

No, Intel is the one with the reliable continual improvement process. That is their advantage, not ability to manufacture large volumes.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I wonder if there will soon be room for a non-x86 PC due to the rise of mobile devices. Don't think there's been one available since the demise of the Power Mac.

<comment><USER13> Apple have smoothly changed processor architecture twice before, they could do it again. Maybe they'll go ARM everywhere at some point.

<comment><USER14> Is ARM objectively better than x86?

<comment> old-gregg ARM is better for <5W applications when performance is secondary to power consumption, but Intel is beating them at performance/watt ratio everywhere else.

<comment><USER15> So why not use both? Just like iPhones use a M9 processor for some dedicated computations, why can't MacBooks offload some less intensive computations to an energy efficient ARM processor.

This in no way eats the x86 market but in fact grows the ARM market.

<comment><USER16> If they bring TouchID to the Mac maybe that is what they'll do as it uses the secure enclave inside the A series processors.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> >Brian Krzanich said the company's focus was on moving to the cloud, with data centers and the Internet of Things considered primary growth drivers

Cloud, servers.. I get it, Intel is well established there, but IoT ? Do they have a foothold in this area ? When I look on their page I don't see anything promising.. and when I think of IoT, I imagine some low power ARM SOCs like Raspbery Pis combined with Arduinos rather then anything Intel sells today.

[http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/internet-of- things/pr...](http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/internet-of- things/products-and-solutions.html)

<comment><USER18> Wind River (Subsidiary of Intel) has a large foothold in the IoT market with their VxWorks and WR Linux OSs that play in the embedded/MCU market. Also see their free new open source OS, Rocket, which is being developed as the "Zephyr Project" in collaboration with the Linux Foundation.

<comment><USER19> Which are mostly running on ARM and PPC. Intel screwed up by dumping Xscale and their legacy embedded lineup. Windriver isn't going to save them.

<comment><USER18> WR is aggressively building out its Helix Cloud platform. Silicon is useless without the services/app dev/data management backend. If WR can migrate OS users up to Helix Cloud they can (somewhat) offset losses on Intel hardware and giving the newer OSs away for free.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Since the transistors in chips are becoming smaller and smaller, heat is an increasing issue. This is why ARM chips for smartphones and IoT are booming, because their requirements of small chips are compatible with the shrinking size of the transistor. Now Intel tries to get a cut of the market, but they are too late.

Anyway, I think they should keep focussing on making the computer chips and focus on the temperature problem.

<comment><USER21> >Now Intel tries to get a cut of the market, but they are too late.

It's really more complex then that.

x86_64 has a lot of backwards compatibility. Even low power chips made by Intel typically consume 2-5x the wattage of ARM counter parts. Intel's very low power line (matches ARM) doesn't actually have the 64bit extension and is functionally a i586 chip from circa 1999-2003. Modern x86_64 chips have a whole section of die space dedicated to emulation, re-ordering, re-naming, and caching for us to pretend x86 is fast.

Then you have monopoly. Intel is the only company making x86_64 chips (Yes VIA/AMD exist, but collectively they have <10% of the market). They are the only show in town, it's their prices. While ARM simply licenses it's IP to other companies, who then compete with one another and drive prices even lower.

<comment><USER22> I don't know why the argument that x86_64 has some affect on efficiency keeps coming up. All modern OoO chips microarch is decoupled from the instruction decoders. All the "strange" x86 instructions are effectively microcoded, which doesn't affect the execution performance of the instructions actually contained in high performance code. In many ways the ability to easily spill/operate against memory/stack provides instruction density advantages, and simplifies certain dependency calculations.

So, whether ARM64 has an power efficiency advantage isn't clear at all when one tries to actually compare them fairly. I frequently see people linearly scaling power/performance curves, or comparing cores that contain ECC, significantly more IO, etc against cores that don't and claiming that the core with 10x the IO bandwidth is somehow less efficient computationally because it consumes 5 watts more to power a PCIe bus.

So, lets get this out of the way, performance is not linear to power. Simply having a clock rate 50% faster has a large impact on power given the rough P=CV^2f equation because often the voltage goes up to support the higher frequencies. Worse designing for a target top end frequency of 4Ghz may entail extra pipeline stages/etc than one targeting 2Ghz in the same process. The result is significantly higher power draw at the same frequency due to the fact that higher frequencies are supported. Then there is leakage current/etc, which will be proportional to the number of transistors, so a design with 15MB of cache is going to waste more on leakage than one with 1MB. The extra 14MB of cache may only contribute another percent or two to the bottom line in many workloads, but frequently the difference between a processors at X performance and one at 1.5X is not due to a single factor but dozens of design tradeoffs that individually only net small percentage gains.

Bottom line, its better to compare implementations, and when ARM vs x86 chips are compared on similar grounds, they are a lot closer than you hear in glib remarks on forums like this. Intel's handicap in mobile (lack of native x86 android apps) and ARM's handicap in desktop/server all really come down to the software (and maybe in the case of some ARM products what one might consider alpha/immature products).

<comment><USER23> None of Intel's or ARM's very low power chips for IoT applications are OoO - uses too much power. Intel have actually resorted to using subsets of x86 on some of them, and even then they're mysteriously unwilling to release proper power usage information.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> > if Intel's vision comes to pass then that device — the smartphone — will > constantly be communicating with Intel-powered data centers

So Intel and Microsoft want to go where IBM and Oracle are withering?

</comment><comment><USER25> @Intel: how about thinking about 10GHz single core CPUs? And where is Atom? Why are we stuck in 2006 era CPU singe core performance?

@nVidia: how about thinking about affordable high end GPUs? The GPUs got 400% more expensive since 2011.

It's a pitty that AMD bought ATI, and now they can't compete with Intel and nVidia. And we all have to suffer and pay higher prices and get less performance - because no real competition exists any more.

<comment><USER26> > @Intel: how about thinking about 10GHz single core CPUs?

They tried that -- the Pentium 4. The key design goal was to push clock speed as high as possible, and they used some crazy tricks, like 30-some-stage pipelines, a really long instruction scheduling loop with a pretty long lookahead, a double-pumped ALU with staggered 16-bit half-adds, etc. Fascinating from a microarchitecture perspective, but the big lesson was that high clock speeds sacrifice efficiency. The tricks needed to get there cause a lot of performance outliers/bad cases too -- e.g. the instruction scheduling replay system on lookahead conflicts was notorious for "tornados" which would kill IPC. And the branch prediction of the day was somewhat suboptimal for the pipeline lengths involved.

> Why are we stuck in 2006 era CPU singe core performance?

We aren't! The core microarchitecture teams at Intel and their competitors have made a lot of incremental progress -- Intel gets about 15% single-thread performance per generation, for example. No one is evilly scheming and holding back from turning a knob higher. There's just a lot of really hard engineering. Clock speed has topped out due to power limitations so we're at the point of looking for better branch prediction algorithms, cache replacement algorithms, and lots of little tricks everywhere to optimize bad cases. It's hard work (this was my job for a bit).

I'd recommend looking at, e.g., the proceedings of ISCA and MICRO conferences in the 2000-2006 timeframe -- this was when the industry and associated academia figured out that chasing clock speed was a losing battle after a certain point.

<comment><USER27> What does it mean to have a "double pumped" ALU? Google is failing me.

<comment><USER26> The ALU performs an operation on half of the machine word (16 of the 32 bits) each half-cycle, i.e., one on the rising edge and one on the falling edge of the clock. Basically they split the carry chain across two (half-)pipe stages and then run it twice as fast.

See Hinton et al., "The microarchitecture of the Pentium 4 processor" [1] for all the nifty details -- pp 8-9, and Fig 7 in particular.

[1] [http://www.ecs.umass.edu/ece/koren/ece568/papers/Pentium4.pd...](http://www.ecs.umass.edu/ece/koren/ece568/papers/Pentium4.pdf)

<comment><USER28> That also makes for some very interesting timings, where the instruction runs faster in the case that there's no carry between the two halves.

From section 2 of this:

[https://gmplib.org/~tege/x86-timing.pdf](https://gmplib.org/~tege/x86-timing.pdf)

"Pentium F0-F2 can sustain 3 add r, i per cycle for -32768 <= i <= 32767, but for larger immediate operands it can sustain only about 3/2 per cycle."</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Čezeta e-scooter: The rebirth of the chicest communist-era scooter - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/nov/18/cezeta-electric-scooter-rebirth-of-communist-era-bike-chic <comment><USER2> £11,000! I can buy an electric scooter here for $700.

Unfortunately, the article is really just a Press Release. So it doesn't go into any detail about what you get for all that money and whether it is worth it.

Where I live (not the US) there are a growing number of electric scooters. I'd guesstimate maybe 20-30% of vehicles on the road now are electric scooters.

It is amazing how much quieter it makes...everything. Internal combustion engines are so noisy yet we've become so accustomed to them.

<comment><USER3> For $700! This is the stand up push style pedestrian scooter. What they are selling is the larger motoscooter (I wish the English language had a better way to indicate the difference). Similar to a Vespa which is far more than $700.

<comment><USER2> No, $700 is not a push style pedestrian scooter where I live. That would be an insane amount of money to spend on something like that here.

$700 gets you something that you can drive on the city streets & highways with a range of 100km and can carry 2 people.

[https://www.pega.com.vn/product/Aura/images/aura- xanh.png](https://www.pega.com.vn/product/Aura/images/aura-xanh.png)

<comment><USER4> I can't see any product info on the page you link (it's just a static image; iOS 12 + Safari), but it appears to have a 50cc engine. $700 is still a pretty darn low price point, but I doubt it can go the advertised 95mph the scooter FTA claims. I've never seen a stock 50cc anything with claimed top speed above 50mph, so these are entirely different classes in both engineering and safety requirements.

<comment><USER5> If you kill everything but the root in his url you get here [https://www.pega.com.vn/](https://www.pega.com.vn/)

Which lists scooters for up to 15,700,000 Vietnamese dong = 675 USD.

I don't speak any Vietnamese, but looking at the specs listed at the bottom of [https://www.pega.com.vn/pega-trans.html](https://www.pega.com.vn/pega- trans.html) I'm guessing top speed 50 km/h range 100km.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> We have something similar in Germany.

The Schwalbe scooter was built in Easter Germany from the the 60s to the 80s and has achieved a sort of cult status. One still sees them today, even in the west. [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simson_Schwalbe](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simson_Schwalbe)

There is now a new electric scooter that looks just like the original: [http://www.myschwalbe.com/en/](http://www.myschwalbe.com/en/)

<comment><USER7> 80 kg, oof. I bet you could crash that into a tree at 30 mph/50 kph and once you got out of the hospital you'd only need to hammer the dents out.

<comment><USER6> Wait until you hear that the new electric one weighs 120kg (one battery) to 135kg (two batteries).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> > It's always struck me as odd that scooters, with their pragmatic step- > through design and fogeyish upright seating position, so easily outscore > motorbikes when it comes to pure panache. They pack more sass and sex appeal > into their dinky two-wheel frames than almost any other vehicle

That's a very bold statement.

<comment><USER9> This article caught my attention and I started reading. However, I got to this point in the article (the _very start_ ) and stopped reading. There's just no way I could bring myself to take anything after that seriously.

Comparing one entire class of vehicle to another so offhandedly is both brash and peculiar. It'd be like saying SUVs are much classier than sports cars. Which SUV and which sports car? Sure, that statement will absolutely be true in some cases, but it's a wicked generalisation. Particularly when the subject matter is inherently so obviously subjective.

<comment><USER10> Haha I enjoyed it very much. I love when the passion and impulse shines through like that.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> It is very long, at 2 meters. I can't see that size being easy to maneuver or park. In Germany for example, scooters and motorcycles can be parked anywhere on pavements. This would be harder to park and more conspicuous (just by size, leave alone the looks!).

I'm all for e-scooters replacing ICE scooters though, for the noise and air pollution benefits. I bought an ICE scooter to putter around in the city mainly because the cheapest e-scooter was almost 3x the price and could only be serviced by the manufacturer. I hope the next scooter I buy will be electric and have a good range.

<comment><USER12> You can park any motor bike on the pavement (sidewalk) - even a Goldwing ?

<comment><USER7> I have not spent much time in Germany, but I believe it is not technically allowed except for specifically marked (signage) sidewalks. It's just accepted basically everywhere. A Goldwing is very nearly as big as a Smart FourTwo, I would suspect that if someone complained you would get a ticket. Best case, a bemused policeman laughing and asking how you managed to get it up over the curb.

Germans are surprisingly relaxed about rules, despite the reputation. If nobody will get hurt, then it's usually not a big deal in my experience. This is the country of the autobahn and Oktoberfest. Compare that to Switzerland (where I have spent more time); there the police will give you stern warnings even if you haven't broken the law. They are very "just-so".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I think it looks rather clunky compared to a modern e-scooter like the new Schwalbe for example.

Say what you want about those modern city scooters but the design is nimble and relatively small. The Čezeta seems like a tractor version of a scooter.

</comment><comment><USER14> Looks cool, but £11,000 is almost twice as much of a similar scooter...

<comment><USER15> > Looks cool

That's the whole point. It is marketed as being _chic_. People will pay the premium in to _look cool_.

<comment><USER16> Not in Czech Republic. We don't have money for that.

And non-Czech people who want chic will probably just wait for Vespa to make one.

<comment><USER17> Yes, Vespa Elettrica is pre-booking for $7,500.

[https://prebookingelettrica.vespa.com](https://prebookingelettrica.vespa.com)

<comment><USER18> Different class. This thing has a 10 kW motor.

<comment><USER19> 10 kw motor doesn't cost 10 times the 1kw motor.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> >Power comes via a patented two-way "Sway" throttle. Roll it back as usual to accelerate, then roll it forward to brake

as novel and non-obvious as they come...

</comment><comment><USER21> Silly question, but how does that keep from falling over when you stop? It looks like your legs can't touch the ground?

</comment><comment><USER22> The word _chicest_ doesn't seem right to me; I keep reading it as a typo for _choicest_ or something like that. Should it maybe be _chic-est_? _Most chic_? I'd have avoided the problem by saying "The rebirth of a chic communist-era scooter". Maybe even "a chic Czech scooter".

<comment><USER23> I didn't figure out what that word was supposed to be until I read your comment.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> I really want a scooter, but I'm really afraid of how vulnerable it makes me. I walk and bus most places I go (in Seattle) and I've wondered how much more dangerous it would be to ride a scooter than walk.

</comment><comment><USER25> It doesn't look like the headlight can swivel.

</comment><comment><USER26> > _rebirth of the communist-era_

Look like it started from 2014...</comment>


Cloud.gov - <AUTHOR> https://cloud.gov/ <comment><USER2> I'm the product lead on cloud.gov... Thanks for noticing us! There are other Cloud Foundry deployments, but what makes cloud.gov special is the focus on ensuring federal agencies are actually able to use it. Federal compliance for a cloud service provider is a tough bar to clear, and without it most agencies are simply unable to take advantage of capabilities the rest of the world now takes for granted. That in turn impedes improvements in the many services the government has to offer. We've just reached the "FedRAMP Ready" status, which is a signifier of confidence that cloud.gov will make it through the exhaustive auditing process to come. Best of all, everything were doing is open source, including all the compliance work, so others will be able to follow in our footsteps. AMA!

<comment><USER3> What sorts of jobs are available there and what's the salary like? I currently do devops at a large Internet content company near Dulles and I've got federal government experience from many years ago.

<comment><USER2> We're recruiting actively across many disciplines. 18F employs a huge range of amazing people with diverse histories from both inside and outside of government. Everyone is an impact junkie. Salary is competitive with industry through a special hiring authority although capped at government levels without bonus, stock, etc. There are intangibles that come from actually being able to improve the way government approaches technology and adopts user- centered design, agile culture, and DevOps that are totally unique. [https://18f.gsa.gov/join](https://18f.gsa.gov/join)

<comment><USER4> For what it's worth, I applied to work with 18F late last year. I'm a web developer with a wide array of skills - front-end, back-end, and even UI/UX design, product design, and some marketing and management - with about 8 years of experience, mostly doing independent consulting with a couple years at a SF startup in there. I'm also very civic minded, doing a bunch of pro-bono work and (since) getting involved in community activism.

I had two phone interviews in which both interviewers asked almost the exact same questions (which struck me as odd). Then I had a _third_ phone interview in which the interviewer - who had a law background, as I recall - seemed very disappointed that I had not worked on Google-sized teams before. Maybe he was having a bad day, but his tone made it sound like I was wasting his time. That was the last I heard from them.

Sorry, this probably isn't the right place to comment on this, but I just wanted to share my experience with you. I was somewhat disappointed in the process, even though I LOVE the mission of 18F. I was prepared to up and move to DC, and honestly take whatever salary you offered - I was in it for the mission, not the money.

<comment><USER5> What is a Google-sized team?

<comment><USER4> My experience has all been with teams and companies < 15 people, and he seemed unhappy about that.

The startup I worked on had 12 people at its height (before it was bought by a large tech company), and I was the first employee hire so I was in a position of some leadership.

He kept asking me strange questions that presupposed I knew how to negotiate with large entities like government agencies... as a developer.

That interview - plus the other two "groundhog day" interviews - were the strangest interview process I've ever experienced.

<comment><USER6> > He kept asking me strange questions that presupposed I knew how to negotiate > with large entities like government agencies... as a developer.

Perhaps that's part of the skills that are needed to succeed at 18F. It sounds like these folks are in a sort of consulting position where they help other government agencies with technical projects and policy efforts. Take a look at the 18F Innovation Specialist GS-14 and -15 roles: [https://pages.18f.gov/joining-18f/pay- grades/](https://pages.18f.gov/joining-18f/pay-grades/) \- based on your background, they might have expected you to fall somewhere around, I'm guessing, GS-14 (1). Some of the qualifications required are:

> Knowledge of and expertise in driving and implementing technology solutions > that overcome significant challenges resulting from complex or bureaucratic > environments, or technically difficult problems

> Skill in oral communication to present sensitive recommendations to higher > authority, to obtain compliance with policies from activities nationwide, to > articulate positions/policy of vast technical complexity, and to represent > the agency on task forces

> Comprehensive knowledge of and expertise in all stages of product or > business development, and ability to lead complex technology and policy > initiatives from inception to implementation

Bureaucratic environment is right there in the job description :-) More seriously, this sounds like a reasonably senior technical role in which one would likely interface with other agencies in the way you're describing. GS-15 is even more demanding. While it's disappointing that the interview expressed condescension at your lack of expertise in this area (and expressed anything other than professionalism), I can understand given these qualifications why they'd probe into those skills. It appears they're looking for technical leaders, and not exclusively heads-down individual contributors -- this makes sense to me given their mission. These positions seem to be about influencing the government through policy and technology initiatives, and influencing other government agencies (which is harder than influencing one's local environment), not just delivering technical projects.

I am not trying to excuse the interview experience that you had, just to be clear. I'm just making an observation about the kind of challenges they appear to have, and the kind of qualifications they might be looking for in candidates to tackle them. Innovation Specialist GS-14 and GS-15 sounds like pretty interesting roles. I am personally glad that they expect such leadership from technical specialists; this kind of broader influence is key to career growth as a technical person past a certain point. Organizations that _don 't_ expect this and foster this in individual contributors are organizations where you need to move into management in order to keep moving up.

However, it sounds like they could have done a lot better job communicating with you respectfully and professionally, as well as conveying what they're looking for.

(1) I know nothing about 18F beyond what I've read on these sites, nor about government pay grades. I'm just taking a guess based on your industry experience, and by comparing the 18F job role levels to the qualifications expected of candidates with similar background in private industry.

<comment><USER4> Thanks for your thoughts, I think you have a decent point there.

My experience does include running front-end at the startup I worked at, and even being part of the three-person group that decided on the direction of the product (with the two founders). My communication skills are battle-tested from years of contracting (and a liberal arts university background), but I do lack experience dealing with huge bureaucracies and I lack experience with business development. So maybe that was it.

That said, if your theory is right that they were slotting me in as a GS-14, they could have communicated with me about that difficulty. I would have been totally fine with whatever role they wanted to give me - which I made clear in the "groundhog day" interviews - because I just wanted to help. :-D

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I'm about to join 18F (in a few weeks), working on cloud.gov.

I worked on the Google Cloud Platform team around the time Compute Engine and Big Query were launched (but spent most of my time on App Engine).

A few weeks ago at the Cloud Foundry Summit the folks from cloud.gov.au gave a keynote. Cloud.gov got some nice shoutouts - the Australian counterparts reused a lot of the cloud.gov work, thanks to the transparent open-source approach.

Listing of cloud.gov related Github repos: [https://docs.cloud.gov/ops/repos/](https://docs.cloud.gov/ops/repos/)

<comment><USER8> > Australian counterparts

Could you elaborate? I'm an Australian but I haven't heard about anything 18F/Cloud.gov-like back home.

<comment><USER9> [https://www.dto.gov.au/our-work/cloud/](https://www.dto.gov.au/our- work/cloud/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I work in GSA as well, and I have a lot of trouble getting software approved that you use all the time, even getting nginx approved took a long time. Forget about vagrant, virtual box, recent versions of python, etc...

How were you able to get ATOs to operate most of your systems and work through these policies?

<comment><USER11> They cheat.

Edit: they ignore a lot of the rules that GSA (among others) mandate the rest of the government follow. One great example is cloud.gov, operating on the public Internet without finishing the fedramp approval process. It also doesn't comply with the TIC requirements GSA pushes on the rest of the .gov.

The hard problems in government IT are being able to pay enough to attract top talent and dealing with all the authorities and oversight that parent refers to. If you remove those two legally-required obstacles, you're cheating. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but comparing GSA's pet project to normal government is disingenuous at best.

<comment><USER12> Hi Godel -

I'm Noah Kunin, the Infrastructure Director at 18F/GSA.

While the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) owns the Trusted Internet Connections (TIC) policy and controls ([https://www.dhs.gov/trusted-internet- connections](https://www.dhs.gov/trusted-internet-connections)) we've been working hard with DHS teams to clarify and improve implementation guidance.

We hear you - loud and clear - and understand there's a lot of frustration.

Check out our updates with one of our pilot partners, Amazon Web Services:

* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikm5XsUuWR4&t=10m11s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikm5XsUuWR4&t=10m11s)

* [https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/publicsector/fedramp-trusted-in...](https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/publicsector/fedramp-trusted-internet-connection-tic-overlay-pilot-program/)

Also please sign up for updates to our blog - hopefully you'll see more news on this soon, but feel free to contact us directly as well.

[https://18f.gsa.gov/blog/](https://18f.gsa.gov/blog/) firstname.lastname@example.com

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> This is really cool. 18F has been doing a lot of amazing work, it seems like the possibility of government tech not totally sucking may be on the (somewhat distant) horizon.

<comment><USER14> :) Thanks! I also work at 18F, but not directly on cloud.gov. Govtech is a huge market, and I wouldn't expect any individual effort to turn the entire ship. Hopefully, though, we can provide a space to experiment and build with modern solutions and practices to make them more "normal."

I'm especially a fan of developing in the open - you can see our commits and issue discussions and keep track of how we're doing as your civil servants. The other thing I love is that all of our work is in the public domain or CC0.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> As someone who develops for a Gov't agency, this is the wrong move. So much money has been spent on mimicking the private sector innovators. Millions and millions of tax dollars spent on these type of projects.

The focus really needs to be on building a process to better integrate private cloud services and gov't applications. I mean they already are for the most part: [https://aws.amazon.com/compliance/fedramp/](https://aws.amazon.com/compliance/fedramp/)

[https://www.microsoft.com/en- us/TrustCenter/Compliance/FedRA...](https://www.microsoft.com/en- us/TrustCenter/Compliance/FedRAMP)

[http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20160229005262/en/Serv...](http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20160229005262/en/ServiceNow- Gains-FedRAMP-Certification-U.S.-Government)

Seriously this is just another wasteful program. The Gov't and 18F will hype it up, but don't be fooled.

<comment><USER2> You listed two IaaS provider and one SaaS provider. cloud.gov is a PaaS provider. There is no FedRAMP PaaS available to agencies, and PaaS is the level of abstraction needed to accelerate delivery of services the government itself provides.

We also leverage the fact that AWS GovCloud already has FedRAMP status as an IaaS to accelerate our delivery of cloud.gov (which sits on top of it), so we're piggy-backing on the money and effort already spent and eliminating the millions we would otherwise spend by having the government run the IaaS layer.

In other words...

> The focus really needs to be on building a process to better integrate > private cloud services and gov't applications.

...that's what we're doing!

<comment><USER16> Actually, there are several FedRAMP PaaS' available to agencies. A quick look at [https://www.fedramp.gov/marketplace/compliant- systems/](https://www.fedramp.gov/marketplace/compliant-systems/) lists several compliant PaaS offerings, including one (Autonomic Resources LLC – ARCWRX) based on OpenShift. It's great to see activity in this space.

<comment><USER17> Correct - Multiple PaaS providers have reached FedRAMP already:

[http://www.fedramp.gov/marketplace/compliant- systems/blackme...](http://www.fedramp.gov/marketplace/compliant- systems/blackmesh-securecloud/)

[http://www.fedramp.gov/marketplace/compliant- systems/autonom...](http://www.fedramp.gov/marketplace/compliant- systems/autonomic-resources-llc-arcwrx/)

Both built on Red Hat OpenShift

<comment><USER18> Acquia is FedRAMP accredited as well. Acquia is optimized for Drupal. Drupal now powers 40% of .gov sites in the US (and growing). It's a fully managed and supported platform, which offers not only the CLI integrations that developers appreciate but accessible, responsive GUI DevOps tools and 24/7/365 application support.

[https://www.fedramp.gov/marketplace/compliant- systems/acquia...](https://www.fedramp.gov/marketplace/compliant- systems/acquia-acquia-cloud/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Hi Bret, long time fan-first time commenter! In the govFresh excerpt that led me here you state the 'Federal compliance for a cloud service provider is a tough bar to clear'. Have you discovered the data policy map is in line with US corporate standards (e.g. Microsoft data security) or separate and distinct? I'd like to understand to what degree.gov innovation into the cloud is at parity with existing, more public facing standards or rewriting what we know and observe today.

Haven't read every comment but a quick ctrl+f didn't find any keywords on the topic;) thanks for the insight!

firstname.lastname@example.com

</comment><comment><USER20> I'd love to use them. Going to the source will reduce latency because the mitm is removed. Now it's just the man. Seriously, I'd switch from DO.

<comment><USER7> You can certainly host it yourself on AWS, GCP, Azure etc.

The general services administration is restricted to only assist federal government agencies, so you wouldn't be able to use the version being managed for the federal government.

<comment><USER2> Are you positive about that? :) [https://books.google.com/books?id=bWI7AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA10&lpg=P...](https://books.google.com/books?id=bWI7AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA10&lpg=PA10&dq=105-50.000+gsa&source=bl&ots=h1zlSWQRZb&sig=noMZZDZNiY3iZZwcD21v1xbTy58&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi7of7dhPHKAhXFWz4KHdsiDOgQ6AEIKTAC#v=onepage&q=105-50.000%20gsa&f=false)

<comment><USER7> :) I remember having that discussion with you in person. You'd definitely know it better.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> This is the only government website I have seen that does not look like it was designed in the 90's. It is pleasant to look at.

</comment><comment><USER22> Isn't the the "Platform-as-a-service" logo the Amazon AWS logo?

[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Am...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/AmazonWebservices_Logo.svg/2000px- AmazonWebservices_Logo.svg.png)

<comment><USER11> Look the domain up in domaintools, they run on top of AWS govcloud.

[https://whois.domaintools.com/cloud.gov](https://whois.domaintools.com/cloud.gov)

<comment><USER22> I wonder if they are just reselling: [https://aws.amazon.com/govcloud- us/](https://aws.amazon.com/govcloud-us/)

<comment><USER2> We are using AWS GovCloud for our base IaaS layer, but we run a PaaS layer on top based on Cloud Foundry... That's the actual cloud.gov service being provided, the location on AWS GovCloud is just an implementation detail.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> I apologize but browsing first thing in the morning, was I the only one who assumed this was a joke?

<comment><USER24> You are not alone. I Still question how much of a good idea that is. It certainly makes it self a popular target for attacks by default.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> What is such a fabulous cloud made of? Broccoli? Or maybe still only _a datacenter_?

</comment><comment><USER26> at first I was going to make fun of them for choosing "Cloud" half a decade after that buzz word reached its peak, but then I looked at the service and it is pretty cool</comment>


In 2004, Mark Zuckerberg Broke into a Facebook User's Private Email Account - <AUTHOR> http://www.businessinsider.com/how-mark-zuckerberg-hacked-into-the-harvard-crimson-2010-3/?IR=T <comment><USER2> Should be labeled (2010).

Facebook has turned into a big evil corporation by now, but there is little sense in reminding everyone of 8-year old findings about its founder's wrongdoings of 14 years ago.

<comment><USER3> Double-plus goodthink there.</comment></comment>


Google, a 'school official?' A regulatory quirk can leave parents in the dark - <AUTHOR> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2015/12/30/google-a-school-official-this-regulatory-quirk-can-leave-parents-in-the-dark/?postshare=2671451564669854 <comment><USER2> Yes, if you use software to work on some sort of information, this software will have access to this information.

Yes, if you use SAAS software, this information will be processed by remote servers.

Yes, if you use proprietary software, you will not know exactly how is this information processed.

And finally, if you have someone who is willing to work as school clerk, given how much do these jobs pay and how interesting they are, this person will likely not understand the complexity of these issues and will be a little bit lazy with their job, so she probably will not present parents with all the relevant information.

Now, every single one of these facts seem obvious; how is combination of these facts warrant an article in one of the biggest newspapers all of a sudden?

<comment><USER3> _And finally, if you have someone who is willing to work as school clerk, given how much do these jobs pay and how interesting they are, this person will likely not understand the complexity of these issues_

I think that is naive -- the general population understands perfectly that Google tracks users and uses that information to display ads. The GAFE apps are covered by different terms of service that restrict the collection of information, but Google draws the line in plain English in their GAFE/GAFW copy:

 _We do not scan for advertising purposes in Gmail or other Google Apps services. Google does not collect or use data in Google Apps services for advertising purposes. The situation is different for our free offerings and the consumer space._

I think the reason why schools go for GAFE is clear and simple: the choice is between having personnel on staff for maintaining servers, computer labs, and troubleshooting students' devices; or outsource it nearly for free to Google.

<comment><USER4> > for advertising purposes

Which neatly leaves out non-advertising purposes. The statement even admits to collecting data _for other purposes_ in the negative - otherwise the would simply say they "scan ... collect or use" the data at all.

This is just like the word-games the NSA likes to play when they insist they aren't collecting data "under _this phone records program_ ".

Both Google (for collecting and aggregating data) and the schools (for giving the data to a 3rd party) should be held liable for anything that happens from this data collection.

<comment><USER5> Well, presumably Google scans the e-mails for search indexing, for virus detection, and for spam filtering; and collect the e-mails for when the user asks to search or retrieve them.

<comment><USER6> Exactly! I want to support stronger privacy but this just smells like someone wants one big payout for themselves. IF it were found that Google were sharing student information with anyone, including the government, things might be different (well not the government anymore thanks CISA) but I could understand if they were caught selling the information to others or snooping on their users' emails and using that in a court case (looking at you, Microsoft you can't undo that).

Articles like these hurts privacy because they cause noise where none is deserved and people just get tired of hearing things like this that they ignore legitimate worries like CISA.

<comment><USER7> > IF it were found that Google were sharing student information with anyone, > including the government

Well, Snowden has shown us exactly that. Google participating voluntarily in PRISM.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> What I find far more... something than FERPA being described as "an obscure law," is how brazen and obvious Google is about breaking it.

If Google is a "School Official," their FERPA obligations do not stop at any point short of/when operating in that capacity.

Further, the idea that they can somehow "switch hats," and somehow maintain discrete sets of both FERPA and non-FERPA behaviors is at best naive, and at worst a conspiracy to commit various felonies.

The money shot of the article: EPIC didn't have standing when they filed their lawsuit, not that they were wrong with regard to laws being broken. With that, I hope entire school districts of parents with school age children file suit.

<comment><USER9> The judicial branch's abuse of "standing" to refuse to hear cases is one of the great injustices in USA.

This was a huge deal in the USA PATRIOT domestic spying cases, where courts refused to hear lawsuits about spying, because plaintiffs couldn't prove they were being spied on before they won the right to collect evidence, because it was illegal for libraries/banks/IT companies disclose the spying!

<comment><USER10> I completely agree. In civil suits it may make sense, but when someone brings up a possible violation of federal law by another party, they shouldn't have to be harmed directly, they're helping prevent their fellow citizens from being harmed by someone or something breaking established law.

It's really sad.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Related: [https://www.eff.org/issues/student- privacy/](https://www.eff.org/issues/student-privacy/)

As a parent with a child entering Kindergarten this upcoming school year, and as an avid privacy and free software advocate, I'm not looking forward to the types of discussions that I'm likely going to have to have with our schools. The reality is that these aren't systems that are easy to roll back---it costs a lot of time and money to implement, and then you have vendor lockin.

So while I can hope for a receptive district, action is probably going to be more difficult. My hope is that they haven't ddone anything too disagreeable yet.

Does anyone else have any personal experiences working with their schools?

<comment><USER12> Is there anything that a kid could install on a school owned Chromebook, that would protect their privacy? Tor?

<comment><USER13> _school owned_

If it's the school's, then I would just say no. It's theirs, they can do whatever they want with it. How about giving your chid a real general-purpose computer instead, running completely free software:

[http://minifree.org/product/libreboot-x200/](http://minifree.org/product/libreboot-x200/)

Just as Google et al. are trying to get kids conditioned to their ecosystems at a young age by pushing their product, those who advocate against them should do the same.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I'm as adverse to reinterpretations like this as anyone but what might be more interesting or actionable would be evidence of what data Google are collecting and how Google are using this data.

<comment><USER15> How is that gonna work? You can't just sniff the traffic between Google and the students(SSL & stuff), and I very much doubt that Google itself will let you take a look in their datacenter.

<comment><USER16> You most definitely can sniff traffic between Google and students, this is widespread and completely normal behaviour at schools and also on many corporate networks. School computers have a MITM certificate installed which allows decryption and re-encryption, usually for the purpose of content filtering and malware detection.

<comment><USER15> Oh. I haven't thought of that :) Yeah, given that the school has root on those laptops, they definitely can do that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> "Trust us. It's OK. We won't use it for evil purposes, because one of our corporate goals is not to be evil."

</comment><comment><USER18> All we want is your firstborn child.</comment>


Congo looks to insect farming in fight against hunger - <AUTHOR> http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/15/us-congodemocratic-insects-idUSKCN0PP11U20150715

<comment><USER2> I tried caterpillar when I was in Congo, it was even more disgusting than you might imagine. Most people there do seem to like them though, so it sounds like a viable solution.

</comment><comment><USER3> How safe is insect consumption, compated to fish and meat consumption?

</comment><comment><USER4> Great idea, and I have even seen protein bars made from cricket meal ... but still .... bleh no thanks!</comment>


How We Built a Blazing Fast Audio/Video Platform with Just a Team of 4 - <AUTHOR> http://stackshare.io/speak/how-we-built-a-blazing-fast-audio-video-platform-with-just-a-team-of-4

<comment><USER2> Pied Piper?</comment>


Run Haskell on Xen - No Operating System Required - <AUTHOR> http://www.readwriteweb.com/cloud/2010/11/haskell-virtual-machine.php <comment><AUTHOR> I would love to see this for Erlang!</comment>


Ask HN: What is the most disappointing technical skill you possess? - <AUTHOR> I'm hoping to get responses from a programmer's perspective.
The emphasis here is on practical usage/benefit (productivity, efficiency, simplicity, etc.).
By disappointing, I mean what has shown you the least returns, even though it has tremendous emphasis in a curriculum or hiring.
It could be a language or a tool, just something technical that you thought was really important, but you find that you don't use much, or not at all. <comment><USER2> I learned flash/action script once.

It was the first programming I ever did and not the best thing to start with (strange mix of js-like syntax and whatever macromedia came up with before), but a rather gentle transition from graphics in to programming and UX.</comment>


Show HN: TypeSmart.js - javascript to bring typographic smartness to textareas - <AUTHOR> http://sujeetgholap.github.io/typesmart.js/

<comment><USER2> I like it, maybe will use it some day.

I'm having some kind of problem with ":)", it shows quotes with a square inside.

<comment><AUTHOR> How does "😊" show up in your browser? I am guessing it is the square again. I have simply lifter the unicode characters from wikipedia : [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoticons_(Unicode_block)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoticons_\(Unicode_block\))</comment></comment>


Vinton Cerf: Soaring oil prices could boost Internet - <AUTHOR> http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hMMOyED1Cw0mlN_v1l05AoqilVPg <comment><USER2> Nothing too new here. There has been a lot of talk of how the high price of travel and commuting will encourage people telecommuting and video conferencing. I, for one, can't wait for this to happen.

The legalization of the virtual corporation in Vermont is a sign of this.</comment>


Ask HN: What do you make of an NDA for a job interview with a startup? - <AUTHOR>

I went for a job interview on friday with a startup that sounded impressive. About 5 minutes into the interview a VP rushed in with a two way NDA for me to sign. I immediately knew that this was not a company I wanted to work with. My impression was, too many processes too soon. I did sign. The rest of the interview, I had lost my will to join. Am I right in making my judgement call? Or is this NDA practice quite widespread? <comment><USER2> I don't think it's a good sign for several reasons:

1\. It's impolite to just drop a document on someone and say "sign this now." If they're serious about this, they should have given it to you in advance of the meeting so you could have your attorney review it and could propose changes to the terms, etc.

2\. It's stupid to use a 2-way NDA in this circumstance - now they're opening themselves up to claims from disappointed applicants that the applicants disclosed some magnificent secret which was misappropriated by the company, so the disappointed applicant ought to get $/equity from the company, even though they were never hired.

3\. It's stupid to figure out that they want/need an NDA after you've already started the meeting.

From what you've described, I would pass on interacting with this organization in the future. However, I say that with the understanding that I've done, and companies I've worked for/with, have done stupid things, and it can be a mistake to judge an opportunity on the basis of a single brain fart. Maybe the VP was having a bad day, or totally misunderstood the situation.

<comment><USER3> I have to agree with the surprise and dropping it on you after the meeting had started. At a minimum, that rather puts one "on the spot".

As for the interview / candidate position itself: Is that what working for them is going to be like?

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> > _Am I right in making my judgement call? Or is this NDA practice quite > widespread?_

It is not widespread, but it is very much possible that the NDA was in fact required if you were discussing certain sensitive subjects that were vital to their business plan / product development / marketing / etc. It is also quite possible that they do discuss such subjects with other interviewees, and the VP didn't really know if you'd be included or not, so he made you sign it as a precaution. Just imagine yourself in VP's shoes.

In any case, it's not a big deal assuming the NDA was reasonable, and you are likely off in your negativity.

</comment><comment><USER5> Why did you sign it?

<comment><AUTHOR> I did it because I was unsure and had no idea how to react. I am asking HN so I know better for the future.</comment></comment>


Linda: Multi-platform, highly configurable conference bot - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/kpashka/linda

<comment><USER2> Any plans to support IRC in some form?

<comment><USER3> Thanks for the idea. I will try to fit it my current plan, which consists of improving current adapters and implementing ones for HipChat and Twitter (not sure if the last one is good thought).</comment></comment>


Apple's HomePod Has Arrived. Don't Rush to Buy It - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/06/technology/personaltech/apple-homepod-review.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Ftechnology <comment><USER2> I don't understand this article and I guess I can just add it to the list of biased crap about Apple. Why would you expect the HomePod to be successful in tests of features that it's not advertised as having? It's like giving a car a crappy review for not being able to fly when comparing it against an airplane.

The HomePod is a speaker, first and foremost. Apple has planned to add Siri features. I don't think it's reasonable to test for features that haven't been released just because competitors have them. If you care about the features that the competitors have, buy those. If you care about the audio on the speaker, buy the HomePod and then be pleasantly surprised when they add those features. Seems silly to me...

Example:

>I figured a week should have been enough.

Based on what?</comment>


Why do we hate wasps and love bees? - <AUTHOR> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-45566304 <comment><USER2> I can answer this.

Besides the obvious honey advantage, bee stings hurt much much less.

This week I have had the fortune of having been stung by both. The bee was accidental, I swatted my neck absent mindedly, and basically stung myself. It hurt, and mildly throbbed for hours afterward, and was slightly tender for a day or so.

The wasp stung my ankle while walking in the grass, having inavertently walked on an underground wasp nest. They signaled and all exited the nest and chased me. They were still stinging my clothing as I stripped, yelling like a hellfire preacher. Somehow I only got stung on my foot, but that did not stop a whole body alergic reaction, and some of the most intense local pain I have ever experinced. It subsided after about a day, after which all swelling was gone. I read wasps are a 3(out of 4) on the biting pain scale by the nutjob that gets posted here yearly.

That is my own, highly biased, but fresh, opinion on this matter.

However, lest I leave readers hating wasps, many are prolific bug killers. I think one species is one of the few to attack boring beetles. If they would only drive off the invasive ground squirrels whose holes they often inhabit.

</comment><comment><USER3> It's common knowledge that wasps are far more aggressive than the bees commonly found in Europe and North America. Maybe that common knowledge is wrong, but AFAICT the paper doesn't dispute that. It does admit that wasp stings are more painful, but then waves that away by arguing that most wasp species can't even sting, which is irrelevant.

Also, you're far more likely to find wasp nests (of the stinging variety) in very inconvenient places, like under an eave near your front door. This makes them far more of a potentially dangerous nuisance than bees.

</comment><comment><USER4> Wasps are jerks. Bees make honey.</comment>


Finding the Four Month Bug: A Debugging Story (2015) - <AUTHOR> https://www.evanjones.ca/jvm-mmap-pause-finding.html <comment><USER2> I had a similar experience with Node, which took months to track down.

I noticed something was blocking our event loop for between 200ms to 2 seconds at a time. I assumed it was GC and optimized everything off-heap but the issue remained. It turned out Node's async spawn() is not async, and blocks while it copies the page table. For processes with large RSS, this adds up.

[https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/14917](https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/14917)

</comment><comment><USER3> It reminds me of a story that came out a few years ago, of how an OCaml developer tracked a thorny issue all the way down to a processor bug [0]. It took them 5 months - and a lucky break.

[0] I found a bug in Intel Skylake processors ([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14686277](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14686277))

</comment><comment><USER4> In addition to the mentioned book "Debugging" by David Agans there is also "Why programs fail" by Andreas Zeller:

[http://www.whyprogramsfail.com/](http://www.whyprogramsfail.com/)

The author of the latter book is a Professor from Saarbrücken and former maintainer of GNU DDD.

</comment><comment><USER5> If the author is here, have you tried the new ZGC collector? I've tried it experimentally and verified that pause time are indeed 10ms or less in every case with a couple of our apps.

I also heard Twitter is a big adoper of Graal but apparently not everywhere. How is that going? I'm deeply upset that Oracle is segmenting the CE and EE version by performance (to the point where I think a fork is likely), wondering what your experience with it was

</comment><comment><USER6> Nice catch. Demonstrates how important a holistic view of the whole stack can be for debugging. How many developers even know how I/O works with the kernel? How the JVM implements GC?

</comment><comment><USER7> Great blog post!</comment>


Show HN: A World Cup 2018 CLI dashboard – Watch matches in your terminal - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/cedricblondeau/world-cup-2018-cli-dashboard <comment><USER2> Prolly best suited for people working in office and are afraid of watching a live stream or open a tab to search for score</comment>