Show HN: Burner, for temporary phone numbers - <AUTHOR> http://blog.burnerapp.com/introducing-burner-temporary-phone-numbers-fo <comment><USER2> Am I wrong in guessing this is a Twilio-powered service?

If so, this is a _brilliant_ pricing model for adding value on top of someone else's API. One-time App store pricing of $1.99 gets $1.39 to use on purchasing a short-duration Twilio line and then in-app purchases can be used to refill extra numbers/minutes, all presumably with enough margin to make money on top of the basic "reserve and use a Twilio number" functionality.

Just checked and Twilio phone numbers are $1/mo. and 1-2 cents a minute for calls. There's definitely headroom to make money here.

<comment><AUTHOR> We proudly work with Twilio -- though there's a lot of work that's gone into managing the user-facing aspects of the service and the UX.

<comment><USER3> Are you pushing voice through data or using call forwarding?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'm disturbed by some of the "chill effect" responses here, in the crime/law enforcement space. Why does an anonymizing product, one designed to protect the user, get so many questions about use by criminals and ways for law enforcement to get around it?

Frankly, the job of law enforcement is up to people in law enforcement. We're not responsible for them. Their physical inability to do certain kinds of harm is part of the balance between civil rights and law enforcement.

Most people who benefit from Burner won't be criminals. It'll probably end up reducing crime by protecting potential victims. Most people are good, so when this thing is doing it's job, it's mostly going to be protecting good people. The additional safety will encourage people to have a better feeling of safety in their lives, as they'll be taking smaller risks when using their phone and interacting with other people. In single life, this thing is frankly a godsend, and can really make a substantive improvement in many peoples lives... Especially for those who've previously been victims.

Worrying about whether to protect people, versus easing the jobs of the people who protect people, is absurdly myopic.

<comment><USER5> I conceptually agree with you but this service is called "Burner", they have couldn't have picked a worse name for a 'legit' service. They have metaphorically written "for criminals and wanna be spys" on their back and are carrying around a 10 foot sign saying "Department of Justice, come and get me!".

Everyone looking at this service is completely justified in being skeptical and asking questions.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> So, the term "Burner" is associated with temporary cell phones used by criminals to avoid wiretaps. Presumably that's the inspiration for the name and the concept.

What happens if your app indeed becomes a salvage for criminals? What's your policy around government requests for information about the person who used the number during a duration? Would you cooperate with subpoenas, or is this really only private on a social but not legal level?

<comment><USER7> This app probably isn't useful for avoiding wiretaps unless they've gone through the hassle of building an encrypted VOIP client (not likely?).

Also this is the same moralizing question asked about everything ever that could possibly be used for nefarious reasons on this site.

Aren't you bored seeing the same questions over and over about mostly interchangeable subjects?

<comment> jack-r-abbit to be fair, I don't think the parent comment was trying to moralize anything. I think it is a legitimate question to ask about their policy regarding handing info over to law enforcement and what not. A question worthy of an answer.

<comment><AUTHOR> It is certainly a fair question, one that deserves a clear answer. Our first principle in thinking about privacy is to be clear to our users in what we are and are not doing with their information.

We designed Burner explicitly and thoughtfully around _user-to-user_ privacy and anonymity. Burner enables users to communicate by voice and text without exchanging their "real" (ie permanent, or even semi-permanent a la Google Voice) numbers, while still using the familiar form factors of phone calls and SMS, and without requiring their counterparties to download apps or join a network.

Burner can be used for anything from dating and craigslist transactions to posting publicly on twitter, to pure entertainment and other things we haven't thought of yet.

The way Burner works, very explicitly, is as a bridge between your phone and others. In other words, calls run over your mobile carrier and your counterparty's carrier, via a bridge that we manage, so that your counterparty doesn't see your callerID endpoint. SMS messages are slightly different technically, but effectively similar. Presuming your counterparty is not on Burner, on their end it's just like a regular phone call or SMS -- ie on their mobile or wireline carrier, on their phone hardware, etc.

It should be obvious given the above that we have no control over these 3rd- party carriers, and we certainly aren't in a position to direct their policies and procedures. We also work with 3rd parties like Twilio for other parts of the number issuance and telelphony process, rackspace for hosting, and so on. It should also be obvious that we have no control over hardware, software, or 3rd-party apps (or malware) on your counterparties' phones.

Given all of the above, Burner was explicitly _not_ designed as a product that's for or meant to be marketed for encrypted or otherwise absolute, leakproof anonymous communication channels. (There are other services available for this, like Tor and Silentcircle, and many very legitimate uses for them, as I'm sure many HN members know.)

We've tried to be thoughtful and clear in our communications, terms of service, and privacy policies about our service, both in terms of what we don't say, and what we do say (various specific uses, for example, are very explicitly against our TOS). We would also be happy post more clearly about our processes (at least to the degree we can), if that would help users make more informed decisions about whether to use Burner.

We are a U.S. corporation operating in the U.S -- in case it's not obvious, we are obliged to and intend to comply with U.S. laws and valid court orders that apply to us. That said, as a company value and personally, we _strongly_ respect the principles of free speech and have lots of concerns about the current state of affairs with respect to wiretapping and the laws that apply to it. We will do everything we can to ensure that any laws or law enforcement requests are indeed applicable and valid, to take as "pro-user" a privacy position as possible within our legal and privacy framework, and to continue to communicate clearly with our users about what we are and aren't doing.

I hope this helps answer the question.

<comment> jack-r-abbit Perfectly clear. Thank you. I think in a case like this having it explicitly stated that you'll protect our _user-to-user_ privacy AND fully comply with applicable laws and LEO requests removes most of the doubt. And that makes it pretty obvious that if we are the 1% that uses this service for evil doing, we are not to expect much in the way of privacy. I think that actually makes things better for the other 99% that have no plans to do evil. I don't think your average Craigslist seller or online dater is going to be that concerned over it. A drug dealer might be... should be. And that makes things better for everyone. I can think of a few uses cases I could apply to this service. The rates seem reasonable to me (having done zero comparison shopping). Unfortunately, I don't do iOS... so I'm unable to be a customer at this time. But best of luck to you.

<comment><USER8> FWIW, I have seen mentions in some of the coverage that they plan an Android version (if that indeed would help you). Given the deep integration with the phone dialer and other device hooks as well as the in-app purchasing model, I can understand why they wanted to start with a single mobile platform (whatever it may be).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> This was the first idea I came up with when I thought about the Twilio API, so I'm glad someone has done it.

I just projected so far down the line that I would have requests from the FBI every day for who was behind particular phone numbers due to nefarious use of temporary phone numbers.

<comment><USER2> Government information requests are a _huge_ potential revenue stream, up to $1000 a pop:

[http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/04/03/these-a...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/04/03/these- are-the-prices-att-verizon-and-sprint-charge-for-cellphone-wiretaps/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> This got a chilly reception when I proposed it almost a decade ago: ;)

[http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/One-time- use_20phone_20number...](http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/One-time- use_20phone_20number#1052586000)

<comment><AUTHOR> Good ideas come in cycles. At that time, though, 50% of the world wasn't mobile-only, and there were no smartphones. We think this is really relevant right now.

<comment><USER10> The phrase I've heard is that being early is the same as being wrong. Trying to make Burner in 2003 would be like trying to make YouTube in 1996.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> So I'm wondering how you don't eventually run out of numbers if they're burnt and then go to an out of service message.

Do they get reused eventually with the hope that the time since burning is long enough for the old usage of the number to have died off?

[edit] Sorry, didn't see PanMan had asked virtually the same question already.

<comment><USER12> From my personal experience I think some numbers do get reused. When I first got my Google Voice number I kept getting a bunch of calls asking for some other person, so I guess Google just reused someone else's old number.

<comment><USER13> Numbers do get reused. I live in Paris and last year a friend freshly arrived from my hometown in Portugal was attributed the cellphone number (major French operator) from a german acquaintance of mine that had moved out of Paris a year before. She still gets text messages in German all the time.

</comment></comment></comment><comment> jack-r-abbit I assume this is incoming only? or can a Burner number be used to make calls and send texts? Either way, I see huge value in something like this (too bad you are iOS only). But the value is even greater if the Burner number can be used for out going communication.

<comment><AUTHOR> in-bound and outbound, calls and texts. and you can turn the ringer and/or message notifications on and off as you like.

<comment> jack-r-abbit So I create a Burner number and then I can make calls against that number and the recipient would see the Burner number in their Caller ID? Nice... that has huge value! Also open for abuse but anything can be abused.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> This is a brilliant idea. I had this exact same one myself a few months ago and never moved forward with it because I had no clue how to execute it properly. Without having installed the app, from the way it's described it sounds like Burner nailed it. Well done guys. I really hope this gets ported to Android so I can use it myself.

</comment><comment><USER15> Great idea: I assume app + backend + twillio API?

The only think that might confuse people is if you start to recycle numbers (because you don't want to keep paying for them), and the call gets connected somewhere totally unrelated.

<comment><AUTHOR> Definitely an issue we've been mindful of and designed for.

<comment><USER16> How did you design for this?

I thought you might be using caller ID, so the number is only relevant to people with a specified phone number. (Similar to how Rebtel works.) But it doesn't seem to be the case here, as I think numbers can be shown publicly.

<comment><AUTHOR> All phone numbers have some ambient activity -- wrong numbers alone account for at least some randomness, though some obviously have more than others, and even very established carriers sometimes distribute numbers with a "legacy". So it's sort of a known problem.

For Burner, each number goes through a quarantine and is monitored for activity before we use it.

EDIT: Also worth noting that SMS seems to be more popular than voice calls, at least initially. "Wrong number SMS" doesn't seem like an actual problem as of yet.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> This looks like a great concept- but I have to question the one time purchase price.

Right now, Burner is top of mind for me, but I don't have an immediate need to use the app. If it were free, I would gladly download it right now, and simply pay for a number whenever a use case arises.

As it stands now, I probably won't download the app, and when a potential use case does arise, who knows if I'll remember (and be able to download on the fly) this app.

Great concept, and love the rest of the pricing model built on Twilio. I just think the Burner team might be missing out on potential additional distribution.

<comment><USER18> Why do people treat buying an app with the same amount of deliberation as buying a new car? The price is less than a large coffee at Dunkin Donuts.

I don't mean to be picking on you quintendf because I do exactly the same thing and your comment made me realize it. I am going to download the app just because of your arguement - I am going to need it sometime in the next few months and not remember the name.

There must be some cognitive bias about buying an app. I will blow $2 on a Diet Coke when I fill-up with gas with barely a second thought. But ask me to download a $2 app - Whoa! this is going to take some thought, research...

<comment><USER19> <http://theoatmeal.com/blog/apps>

<comment><USER18> Yep, that is exactly me.

Are we hardwired to not spend when we get nothing (physical) in return?

Do movies "hack" this behavior by handing you a ticket?

Will my 6 and 8 year old daughters not have this behavior "tick?" They already see no problem with asking to spend $50 on a chest of gems.

<comment><USER20> If most apps were $5 and $10 instead of free and $.99, you would probably buy the $5 apps and wish the $10 were $5. For better or worse, people expect mobile apps to be <$1 or free.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> "You can use a Burner for dating, Craigslist, short-term projects, side businesses, bands, and other times when you need to be in touch but want to maintain a little privacy." -- Such as when I want to be a royal pain in the ass towards ex-girlfriends, and people that I generally dislike. How have you planned to reduce angst caused by the misuse of your app?

<comment><USER22> This explains why they are ex girlfriends! Why on earth would the app get involved in how the app is used, that's th responsibility of the user, just like when you buy a kitchen knife, the designer wasn't giving much consideration to reducing angst caused by its misuse.

Please let's stop with the nanny state nonsense. As others have pointed out its no different to pay phones.

<comment><USER23> You have access to infinite payphones just outside your door?

More seriously: what's wrong with asking developers to think about what their creations are enabling?

<comment><USER24> Nothing wrong with asking developers to think about what their creations are enabling. Let's not confuse the root cause though. The technology brings our shadow side out into the open. That same shadow side may itself allow for positive changes in society.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> That's perhaps not the name/positioning you want when you get the (inevitable) abuse complaint.

<comment><AUTHOR> When we tested out other names, people kept saying, "you mean like a burner?"

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> Craigslist is able to block all google-voice numbers, I am sure they will be able to block these based on some routing identifier.

<comment><USER27> What do you mean "block all google-voice numbers"?

As in automatically removing them from posts? That would be very stupid because some people use their Google Voice number exclusively, and it shouldn't be up to them to decide how I should be contacted.

<comment><USER26> Sorry to clarify I mean for posting verification.

It's very annoying, they do it to combat spammers but as an innocent user I get hit all the time with the phone verification.

 _Craigslist requires that your number be identified as "Fixed Line" or "Mobile" (not "Non-Fixed VoIP" or "Prepaid Mobile") by their provider, ReduceFraud.com, in order for you to be able to complete phone number verification and post in certain sections on CraigsList._

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> If it's Twilio, then numbers will only cost 50 cents in volume pricing so this could be a nice model. I'm skeptical about handling dead numbers though. Either the service hangs on to them which will cost them $.5/month in perpetuity or they release them to Twilio in which case other apps can use them.

I recommend checking out Plivo btw. They're cheaper in every way and I've heard the voice quality is better.

My company uses Twilio now and just made up my mind to switch to Plivo as soon as I have some free time.

<comment><USER29> Oh, I'm curious to here about Plivo. I've seen quite a bit of Twilio (they promote a lot at our events) but I've never heard of Plivo before. Are there any downsides to Plivo vs Twilio? If not, I may use Plivo more often.

<comment><USER30> Hey Leland, This is Venky, One of the cofounders of Plivo. Would love to have a chat to explain what we do. Mail me up at email@example.com and we can catch up :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> It'd be interesting if this was VOIP. Then you'd be able to get a temporary (or pseudo-permanent) U.S. number from outside the U.S.

<comment><AUTHOR> Agree!

<comment><USER31> Even better: if you would be able to choose the country the number should be from… :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> Wow!! We hacked up something similar few months back as a side project. Nice validation :). You have some real nice UX and figured out the pricing as well. Best wishes.

<http://www.getroller.com>

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4076883>

<comment><AUTHOR> nice! what happened with it?

<comment><USER32> We have been getting some consistent traffic, but need more push to market ourselves. Got real good feedback from both users, friends and HN, but getting the real consumer to use it is the key I guess. You guys figured out the pricing, which is great and being an iphone app you can use the in-app purchasing. We were more web focussed. Also, not generating real phone numbers as you did.

I might still add some more features to it, but thinking about the direction right now :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> I wonder if they keep track of who had what number and when?

Just thinking about whether law enforcement or the courts can get details.

<comment><USER27> I'm hoping they do, but it would actually get tricky.

Law enforcement wants info on a phone number -> it goes to Twilio -> Twilio links this number at that time to Burner -> Burner links this number at that time to a user account. At this point, I'm not sure how they can link it to a real person. I'm guessing the credits are from in-app purchases, which means Burner itself might not have any real personal info on you and the buck then passes to Apple.

That means three different privacy policies involved and most likely a pretty long delay.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> Greg, Wouldn't it be a better idea to release the app for free and then use in-app purchases for the numbers? That way you would not scare away the people who just want to download and see what it does. People may argue that $1.49 is nothing, but why lose potential customers.

<comment><AUTHOR> Per above, we considered that but didn't want to create bad will with a "free" app that didn't do anything until you added more money. (It's also against Apple TOS, though widely flouted.)

In the future we may consider something more along the lines of a free sample.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> Neat idea. A couple of thoughts:

1- They better have a very large pool of unused numbers - otherwise it's likely my phone will be randomly ringing due to the many past users of the number I just bought... who knows where and how many times they would have posted the number at.

2- Personally, I don't immediately see how I'd go away from Google Voice, which is free, to a paid service. Because of the above, I prefer to have one or two fixed private numbers which I can always remember. If the number becomes a problem, I can always block the annoying caller or switch to a new number - for free. (I still haven't had to replace my year-old private number, btw).

That being said, it'd be neat to see what people end up doing with true throw- away numbers.

</comment><comment><USER27> I like that the video on your homepage shows most of the functionality pretty quickly, but I realized that I spent the whole demo with my head tilted to the right. There's no need for that tilt.

(somehow, it now says "this video does not exist" right now)

<comment><AUTHOR> you could always tilt the screen? ;-)

(there was a brief outage as we switched video hosts)

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> RingCentral, a more established player in this space, has been providing a similar service since last year

<http://mashable.com/2011/09/12/ringcentral-new-numbers/>

<comment><AUTHOR> Been gone from the app store for months. RingCentral, along with lots of other players, are focused on small business IVR types of service. Quite different.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> I don't know about iPhones, but can't you just set your phone to appear as 'unknown caller' (so, no phone number is transmitted)? Or is this not really invisible?

<comment><USER37> This app gives you a new number for _incoming_ calls and messages.

<comment><USER19> Their iTunes page says you can make outbound calls and messages: [http://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/burner-disposable-phone- numbe...](http://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/burner-disposable-phone- numbers/id505800761?mt=8)

<comment><USER37> You're right. You can see it in the video, as well.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> Google search for "disposable phone number" turns up a number of offers, sOme already out of business. What makes you think you have a business here?

</comment><comment><USER39> Please open up an API or provide a webpage to allow non-smartphone users the opportunity to use it. I'm not sure how the internals work with your app, and I hope they are not too coupled to iOS.

I have a very basic cell phone, since I prefer using a laptop to do my browsing/email/development. I like to disconnect at least half my day, and not be at the beck and call (excuse the pun) of a smartphone.

<comment><USER32> Hey, give this a try. Let us know if your feedback. Its web based and free right now to try.

www.getroller.com

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> Any particular reason why the app is only available in the US store, seeing that Twilio has international coverage?

</comment><comment><USER41> How long does the initial $2 last? Where is the cost to durations credit table? Can't find this info anywhere.

<comment><AUTHOR> you get one number, good for up to a week or 20 voice minutes / 60 messages, with the initial purchase. after that you can get more burners on a similar basis.

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> Is this coming to Android at any time?

</comment><comment><USER43> So this presumably should allow registering anonymous Gmail accounts?

<comment><USER44> Yes, so if law enforcement (for example) were trying to find out the phone number for a Gmail account, they would then have to go to Burner or Twilio to get records for the Burner phone number account. I guess it depend on what level of anonymity or privacy you're going for.

<comment><USER45> Wait, does Gmail ask for a phone number when signing up these days?

<comment><USER46> It did sometimes. I think a cookie/IP limit kicked after it detected "you" had created a few accounts.

<comment><USER47> It is extremely easy to create an anonymous number already, let alone a gmail account. A friend of a friend daisy chains anonymous numbers with physical burners for a "proxy" effect.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> Really wonderful job on this app. Just tested it out (ios6b4 on a 4s) and all worked really well and very fast. Would love to see some usage data as you grow. Congrats on shipping!

<comment><AUTHOR> thanks -- so glad u like it!

</comment></comment><comment><USER49> Awesome idea. You don't seem to be listed in non-US app stores (Canada, in my case). Any plans to be available internationally, or at least in the same countries served by Twilio?

<comment><AUTHOR> The app is available in Canada. If you have trouble finding it in the iOS app store there, let me know.

<comment><USER49> I eventually found it by searching "burner phone". Fyi, your iTunes link on the site is broken for me, giving a generic "can't connect to iTunes Store". Thanks :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> LOVE this idea. actually thought of something like this a few months back, but never got around to doing anything on this. you should post what the costs are for numbers etc.

<comment><USER32> That would be too much to ask, isn't it :). But you can figure out some pricing from the twilio's website

</comment></comment><comment><USER51> Very clever idea. Any plans on an Android version?

<comment><AUTHOR> Nothing to announce yet, but we are looking at this.

</comment></comment><comment><USER52> Did the founders watch The Wire - love the name!

</comment><comment><USER53> Does anyone know if they plan to launch the same service in Europe soon? Or does a similar service exist?

<comment><AUTHOR> We are definitely looking at expanding our international coverage as soon as we practically can. Nothing to announce formally yet though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER54> Abso-f*cking brilliant. (downloading)

<comment><AUTHOR> :-)

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> Pricing seems a bit steep for what you get, especially since it is not obvious before you buy the app.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for sharing that feedback. We can work on making it more obvious, at least. (It's meant to be and our SKU's are also made visible by apple in the app store, but I'm sure there's more we could do.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER56> You, sir, win the award for best product name. And shame, HN, for not complimenting him sooner.

<comment><USER57> Shouldn't it be called "Burnr"?

</comment></comment><comment><USER58> Bravo, man. This is so brilliant.

</comment><comment><USER59> does burner support short codes for sms? and is there an android version planned?

<comment><USER60> why would you want to use a shortcode with this?

</comment></comment><comment><USER61> Currently making one right now.... At least I have some nice competition.

</comment><comment><USER62> Technology + freedom. The opposite of GoogleWorld

</comment><comment><USER63> Please bring this to the UK app store. Please.

</comment><comment><USER64> You should get Wendell Pierce as a spokesman

</comment><comment><USER65> Looks great, but why is it an iphone app? Seems like managing and configuring a bunch of numbers would be easier in a web interface.

<comment><AUTHOR> Making outbound calls via a Burner number requires knowing where the call is originating.

</comment></comment><comment><USER66> Is there any good use of this app that is not basically to annoy people?

Because I can't really come up with any.

<comment><USER67> Watch "The Wire."

<comment><USER67> Seriously though there are lots of licit uses:

-girl goes out to to pull. Gives her number freely knowing that it's only good for a few days.

\- enter online competitions that might be spam. Advertise a job without getting onto a HR spam list

\- Sell a used monkey online without fear of monkey spam

\- Put up an MVP for a salsa lesson in Denmark. Get a local number using the app you already know about from the monkey business

\- Set up sales meeting with your competitors (define licit..)

\- Inform on your boss

\- Call your uncle in Iran

I'm sure there are lots more. Who doesn't have some temporary/secondary email addresses?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER68> A drug dealers dream...

</comment><comment><USER69> Is there a reason you chose to do this as an app instead of a webapp?

</comment><comment><USER70> does this service work with MMS ?

<comment><USER27> No, since it's not supported by Twilio at this time.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: What hobbies do you have outside tech, and how do you start learning it? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> Woodworking. Got started by just doing. Learned a lot from YouTube and r/woodworking, and refined my skills by doing more projects.

<comment><AUTHOR> Interesting, I've always thought about it. How much did it cost you to get started?

<comment><USER2> It doesn't have to cost a lot to get started. I just had a Dewalt and Ryobi beginner power tool kit to get started (they're almost identical—both were gifts).

Unless you go the hand-tool-only route, the necessities are a good speed square, a drill, a good set of drill bits and a circular saw. Together, those three things (cordless Ryobi are great for beginners and not super costly) shouldn't cost more than $150? From there, spend as you like to make projects a bit easier. My shop has gotten a lot bigger over the last year or so... I've spent quite a bit.

My first real project was a series of planter boxes made of cedar 1x3 boards and cedar fence posts. Considering the cost of the fence posts (cheap), it was a great project to not have to worry too much about material waste.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Musical composition - all self taught and by no means good at it, but I enjoy doing it. Started off as making short pieces on the piano. Others enjoyed them so I started doing more.

<comment><AUTHOR> Have you started playing in open mics?

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Beer brewing. Bought a kit. Forced my friends to drink super-sweet partially- fermented wort. Bought THE book and kept making batches until I can produce better beer than some of the local brewpubs (or so I have been told - I still throw out the odd suspect batch).

Classical guitar. Bought a guitar. Took lessons for a decade or so and then just kept playing.

</comment><comment><USER5> Motorcycle.

<comment><AUTHOR> How long from when you've started led you to become part of the motorcycle community in your local area?

<comment><USER5> My journey was a little atypical. I rode in college decades ago because the parking situation in my college town was dire. After college the need was gone so I stopped riding. I recently picked it back up for recreation and joined two motorcycle discussion forums BARF (bay area riders forum) for general/local riding info and stromtrooper.com for information about my specific bike. The community is very open and friendly but I don't hang out too much with other riders (my personal preference). I almost always ride alone and I ride for recreation (so I do not commute or use it as transportation). I find its a great way to clear my head because when you ride you have to be "in the moment" and put a hold on all your thoughts and troubles for a few hours. Its therapeutic.

If you want to get started look into the rider training program for your state to get licensed, insured and to buy a bike. Even if you aren't in the SF Bay Area, BARF is a great place to start and get your questions answered. Cost is up to you but you can get into the hobby for less than $5000.</comment></comment></comment>


Understanding Bitcoin Transactions - <AUTHOR> https://www.jonathanotto.com/bitcoin-transactions <comment><USER2> I would love to see a tutorial on how to create a bitcoin address (a private + public key pair) with nothing but command line tools that are available in a standard Linux distribution.

<comment><USER3> The book "Mastering Bitcoin" by Andreas Antonopoulos steps through this. You can find the code here [https://github.com/bitcoinbook/bitcoinbook/blob/develop/code...](https://github.com/bitcoinbook/bitcoinbook/blob/develop/code/key- to-address-ecc-example.py)

<comment><USER4> I'm not too hot on Python, where do I find the imported libraries so as to interpret eg `bitcoin.encode_privkey(decoded_private_key, 'wif')`.

<comment><USER5> Based on the `import bitcoin`, it looks like it is using this library: [https://github.com/vbuterin/pybitcointools](https://github.com/vbuterin/pybitcointools)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> For a long time this article [0] was my go-to when explaining Bitcoin transactions to others but this submission is more recent (has SegWit, etc.)

[0]: [https://curiosity-driven.org/bitcoin-contracts](https://curiosity- driven.org/bitcoin-contracts)

</comment><comment><USER7> This is one of my favorites

[https://cryptominded.com/](https://cryptominded.com/)

<comment><USER8> Nice</comment></comment>


High Availability at Braintree by Paul Gross - <AUTHOR> https://speakerdeck.com/pgr0ss/high-availability-at-braintree

<comment><AUTHOR> Notes on how Braintree handles planned maintenance, unplanned failure, and people mistakes to support processing transactions at the rate of $22k/min or $12 billion yearly.

\- PostgreSQL was a win for them over MySQL

\- Custom built load balancers

\- Automation to reduce human errors</comment>


Factors associated with Covid-19 deaths in records of 17M adult NHS patients - <AUTHOR> https://twitter.com/bengoldacre/status/1258372975004389379 <comment><USER2> Here's a link to the paper: [https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.06.20092999v...](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.06.20092999v1.full.pdf)

This is interesting data. I want to see Vitamin D status included in a large population study like this because I've been following two smaller studies covering about a thousand cases total that shows Vitamin D deficiency has a risk ratio of 10 to 20 (more even than being age 80+ in the above study). The studies:

[1] [https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3585561](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3585561)

[2] [https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3571484](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3571484)

Table 1 in each of those papers show Vitamin D status vs Outcomes. The correlation between Vitamin D status, where Normal is >30 ng/ml (or 75 nmol/L), and death rates is stark.

From [1] (which had n=780 cases) here is the punchline: "98.9% of Vitamin D deficient cases died while only 1.1% of them were active cases. 87.8% of Vitamin D insufficient cases died while only 12.2% of them were active cases. Only 4.1% of cases with normal Vitamin D levels died while 95.9% of them were active cases."

From [2] (which had n=212 cases) here is the punchline: "Of the 212 (100.0%) cases of Covid-2019, 49 (23.1%) were identified mild, 59 (27.8%) were ordinary, 56 (26.4%) were severe, and 48 (22.6%) were critical (Table 1). Mean serum 25(OH)D level was 23.8 ng/ml. Serum 25(OH)D level of cases with mild outcome was 31.2 ng/ml, 27.4 ng/ml for ordinary, 21.2 ng/ml for severe, and 17.1 ng/ml for critical."

Note: the classification for outcomes was "(1) mild – mild clinical features without pneumonia diagnosis, (2) ordinary – confirmed pneumonia in chest computer tomography with fever and other respiratory symptoms, (3) severe – hypoxia (at most 93% oxygen saturation) and respiratory distress or abnormal blood gas analysis results (PaCO2 >50 mm Hg or PaO2 < 0 mm Hg), and (4) critical – respiratory failure requiring intensive case monitoring."

I want to see a dozen more studies like [1] and [2] to see if this holds up to replication with larger populations.

<comment><USER3> The critical question remains though- is vitamin D the causal factor, or instead an indicator of something else?

<comment><USER4> Sun exposure is far more likely to be the causal factor.

<comment><USER5> and/or a diet deficient in D (or whatever gets converted to D with sunlight exposure)

<comment><USER6> There's nothing particular that is required in the diet to synthesize Vitamin D3 from the sun.

Without sun exposure, you'd have to be eating several pounds of fatty fish every day to get to "healthy" levels from diet alone. You need a supplement.

Keep in mind, non-severe Vitamin D deficiency doesn't cause any significant evolutionary pressure, so migrating humans just rolled with it - to this day.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> It seems like a lot of people are interpreting this data as causal. I've already had people tell me they were surprised to learn that smoking protects against Covid!

Here's a fantastic explanation of why you should not let your brain tell you that you're learning about things that cause Covid complications and death:

[https://twitter.com/EpiEllie/status/1258607277357006849](https://twitter.com/EpiEllie/status/1258607277357006849)

<comment><USER8> The thread is good, but a possible link with nicotine has been observed before. This might just be the unlikely case where smoking does indirectly confer some health benefit.

<comment><USER9> Maybe because it could cause you to go outside, increasing exposure to the sun.

<comment><USER10> Or kill you before you get to a vulnerable age.

<comment><USER5> it might work like a mask if you always inhale through a filter and an inferno.

It might even purify your second-hand smoke.

but yes, you have a very real point. I remember reading about some drug that seemed to give people heart attacks, but it actually cured what it was supposed to and heart attacks were the next statistically likely thing to get you.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Notably, this research is being publicized by Ben Goldacre of _Bad Science_ (among other accomplishments). Goldacre also gets last author on the non- alphabetized list of authors on the preprint, suggesting his primary involvement.

<comment><USER12> I wasn't familiar and looked him up. This might save others the effort.

[https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Ben+Goldacre+of+Bad+Science&t=fpas...](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Ben+Goldacre+of+Bad+Science&t=fpas&ia=web)

<comment><USER12> Down voted for helping others. HN...you've lost your mind. Your sense of community is an embarrassment.

<comment><USER13> A copy-paste of the bio from Wikipedia would be more helpful than a DDG search link.

<comment><USER12> For you perhaps. But I didn't see value in imposing my will on others. In fact, I looked at a few of the articles in that DDG SERP.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> The title / headline is overstating it a little. The sample only contains 5,683 people who died of the virus. The 17M is the sample of hospital patients in general. I don't know if this is on purpose, but it makes the study sound artificially more significant. Every study could claim the "17M" figure by this practice.

<comment><USER15> As far as I understand it, they are comparing the statistics of the 5,683 sample to the 17M in order to determine whether anything stands out. If Covid-19 deaths had no associated factors, then we shouldn't see much of a difference between the two.

However, we are seeing differences, for example with diabetes.

<comment><USER14> Yes that's true, but the 17M figure isn't the interesting / groundbreaking thing. At least it shouldn't be made out to be as if that's the significant thing.

17M just provides the baseline of "normal". Tons more data isn't needed to get that right. 170M wouldn't make a difference. I bet 1.7M wouldn't make a big difference either.

What we really need to know right now is how the Covid deaths behave. All that this offers is the 5,683 sample, but the title inflates it to emphasize the 17M. We need the 5,683 sample to be merged with other samples to reach 56,830, etc. _That_ is the significant thing.

<comment><USER15> I have to admit, the title does sound misleading in this regard, and (to me) even more so the tweets advertising the paper as per the submission.

<comment><USER16> You misunderstand. The only reason the study has enough power to make statements about the relative risk of, say, obesity _independently of_ age, sex, and ethnicity is because there are 17 million patients to use as "controls".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I think one of the key takeaways is in the abstract:

> People from Asian and black groups are at markedly increased risk of in- > hospital death from COVID-19, and contrary to some prior speculation is only > partially attributable to pre-existing clinical risk factors or deprivation

<comment><USER18> Deprivation equals poverty.

Asian in Britain will primarily be Indian/Pakistani descent.

I wonder if this is vitamin d related? Darker complexion of black and Asian could cause higher risks of vitamin d deficiency in UK.

<comment><USER19> But Indian/Pakistani aren't dying at much higher rate in their own country or are they? I've no data.

<comment><USER20> I would imagine that the sun is hotter and shows itself more often in India and Pakistan - hence the darker complexion.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> From the paper:

> The overall cumulative incidence of COVID-19 hospital death at 80 days from > the study start date was <0.01% in those aged 18-39 years, rising to 0.35% > and 0.17% in men and women respectively aged ≥80 years, with a trend by age.

How do those rates compare to the seasonal flu in the UK?

<comment><USER22> It is not very useful to compare them with flu because people are much more likely to have flu than to have covid. These rates seem very small but remember that the study started in the beginning of february, when there were likely only a handful if any covid carriers in the uk.

If you could preselect a group of people that you know had covid and measure their death rate, the numbers are likely to be much higher. This study did not do this. This is probably because this would require that all patients are tested for covid as they visit their doctor and this was obviously not happening.

<comment><USER23> Also flu deaths have been greatly exaggerated. Which explains how with a supposed 50k flu deaths in a year in the USA, it has never inundated hospitals like this.

<comment><USER24> 85k coronavirus deaths haven't inundated hospitals in the US either, except in the absolute epicenter in NYC, and even then not to the point originally feared. It's very easy to imagine 50k flu deaths geographically spread evenly not overwhelming US hospitals, especially given that they'd be spread over something like 3x the current coronavirus epidemic timespan. I'm very skeptical of the sudden "oh those flu deaths aren't real" narrative.

<comment><USER23> Ok, bad word choice with inundated, although NYC got pretty bad.

You can be skeptical, but it does seem to be the case that flu deaths is actually a made up number.

[https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/comparing-...](https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/comparing- covid-19-deaths-to-flu-deaths-is-like-comparing-apples-to-oranges/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> The whole paper is here:

[https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.06.20092999v...](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.06.20092999v1.full.pdf)

Obesity, of course, is a major factor. It's hard to pull apart Type II Diabetes and breathing disorders from it, too, so a realistic assessment of disorders that would be mitigated if the patient lost weight might show it as the absolute major contributor.

Even Vitamin D deficiency is linked to obesity: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3705328/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3705328/)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> [https://www.economist.com/science-and- technology/2020/05/14/...](https://www.economist.com/science-and- technology/2020/05/14/the-pandemic-has-spawned-a-new-way-to-study-medical- recordshttps://twitter.com/bengoldacre?lang=en) [https://t.co/j1n12eyz7Y?amp=1](https://t.co/j1n12eyz7Y?amp=1) Datamining 17 million NHS records to find Coronavirus factors.

<comment><AUTHOR> Sorry my links seem to have gone wrong try [https://outline.com/YNRSgm](https://outline.com/YNRSgm)

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> Judging from the chart at p. 11 age is really the dominant factor. Moving the "hazard ratio" from 0.25 (<50) to 10+ (>80). Completely dwarfing other factors such as sex, obesity, and various health problems (that the study has categorised).

</comment><comment><USER27> Full paper - [https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.06.20092999v...](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.06.20092999v1.full.pdf)

</comment><comment> 0-_-0 Interesting that being an ex-smoker increases the risk, but being a current smoker decreases it. Seems like there is some short term benefit to smoking that outweighs its long term negative health effects.

<comment><USER28> As someone who relatively freshly started smoking 1.5 years ago, I find it insidious. After stopping for a day or two, I actually feel better as tension goes away and I sleep a lot. Shortly, however, I start randomly getting sneezes, runny nose, and slight ill-like feeling in my head.

Part of what makes me start again is the desire to avoid spooking others with those flu-like symptoms in the middle of an epidemic, since I live in a densely populated area.

I don't have a clear idea of what mechanism is at work here, my hypothesis is that the withdrawal somehow suppresses my immune system.

Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, nicotine patches aren't as good (or useful at all) at reducing the respiratory symptoms in short term. I suppose it's not purely nicotine withdrawal that's causing this.

<comment><USER29> This is a real effect. Smoking paralyses the cilia; about 4–6 days after cessation, the cilia become active again and start to bring up mucus from the lungs.

The good news is that these symptoms are temporary.

Public health communications on the benefits of cessation don't usually mention this. I wonder if that's a mistake. I would have thought it puts a lot of people off quitting, and maybe if they knew what was happening it would be easier to deal with.

<comment><USER28> This is definitely useful to know. I reckon some smokers suffering from this upon withdrawal would suspect immunosuppression, and choose to continue.

When I have a week or so apart from the crowds, I'll see how long it takes to push through those symptoms.

(I thought if withdrawal causes immune system suppression, this effect could explain the apparent COVID statistic correlation mentioned by 0-_-0 in parent comment, but from your information it's unlikely to.)

<comment><USER29> I think the leading hypothesis is that nicotine may have a protective effect against COVID-19, which is strong enough to more than counteract the negative influence of the lung damage caused by smoking.

(This would explain why former smokers are worse off, since they have residual lung damage but no protective nicotine.)

Of course this is all quite hypothetical, and may turn out to be wrong, but I gather it's biochemically plausible.

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7192087/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7192087/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> What is "Deprivation" in this context?

<comment><USER22> I was wondering about that too. After some research it seems to be something like poverty. I.e., being deprived of decent living conditions, education opportunities employment opportunities, etc.

In the paper they used this index which measures deprivation by living location in the UK: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_deprivation_index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_deprivation_index)

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> What is a hazard ratio? Ie if the hazard ratio is 1.25 (for severe asthma), what does that mean concretely?

<comment><USER32> A hazard rate can be thought of as a patient's one day probability of mortality. A hazard ratio is a ratio of two hazard rates, so 1.25 would mean that people in one group were dying at a 1.25x rate relative to a comparison group.

<comment><USER33> I'd quibble slightly with the interpretation of the Hazard Ratio (or rate) here and say that it's more like "the instantaneous relative risk (or probability, if you like) of the event of interest [in this case mortality but not necessarily] between those with confirmed coronavirus and those without it, given that both groups have survived until time _t_ and holding [set of covariates of interest, e.g. race, age, etc] constant."

Don't mean to sound like a pedant here even though it totally reads that way. I figured with enough epidemiology in the news these days, people may see a lot of "Hazard ratios" or "Cox regression" or "survival analysis" and be at risk of some confusion. I work with these concepts and I get tripped up myself sometimes.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> > Deprivation was also found to be a major risk factor

What does this mean? Sleep deprivation?

<comment><USER35> Indices of Multiple Deprivation use a bunch of factors to measure how much it sucks to live somewhere. Other people are saying "poverty" but that's only _part_ of the problem.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_deprivation_index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_deprivation_index)

For example suppose you are very poor but you live where I grew up in Metroland. Lack of money sucks pretty badly, but in Metroland other deprivation factors are mostly low.

There are jobs in Metroland. The schools are pretty good. There's a hospital, and a nearby doctor with a friendly manner (remember Britain has universal healthcare, but universal does not mean universally excellent). You can't afford private rent here, but local government can find you somewhere to live, and not in six months but maybe six days.

The local crime isn't too bad. Vandals, maybe the odd burglary you suspect a neighbour is on the game (prostitution), but you don't fear for your life. The surrounding space is nice, there's a play park, rolling hills, fresh air if you like that sort of thing.

So in Metroland even the poor aren't very deprived.

In contrast, in some deprived Northern cities in particular, even the middle class suffer pretty badly, and will strive to get out.

<comment><USER34> I always forget that "poor" over there doesn't also mean "unable to get healthcare" and "living in a tent under the highway".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> > being male (hazard ratio 1.99..

It's an interesting counter factual to imagine how differently the media would be covering the situation if the genders were reversed and women had about twice the chance of dying from COVID-19..

<comment><USER37> I'm surprised they even mentioned this, considering how often my wife has told me to shut up about my "man cold"

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> Obligatory, "Fucking Twitter thread" complaint. I dread reading

\- Bullet point

\- After bullet point

\- In the form of a tweet per bullet point

\- Trying to skip the bullshit

\- And find the conclusion

(I'll stop now) ...and having the anxiety to be disappointed that I'll read so much bullshit and end up with nothing. Yes, in the end he links to the abstract which has the (unfortunately harder to parse) meat, but also yes, the Twitter thread disappoints, because he ends up tooting his own horn that they were the first, "this [study is] extremely important" and how he needs a sandwich... and seemingly that's where the thread ends? (TBH, thank god for that).

<comment><USER39> I fully agree with you, and therefore:

a) the thread, in readable form [https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1258372975004389379.html](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1258372975004389379.html)

b) the full publication [https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.06.20092999v...](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.06.20092999v1.full.pdf)

<comment><USER40> ProTip: DDG bang !thread <twitter url>

So:

      !thread  https://twitter.com/bengoldacre/status/1258372975004389379

...at [https://duckduckgo.com](https://duckduckgo.com), or in your navbar (if DDG is your default search engine) goes straight there.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> Given "AI's" inability to understand time and temporal relations, and given the incredible amount of hidden dynamics and game theory in economics, just going to go ahead and facepalm

<comment><AUTHOR> Sorry, what are you saying? This is Epidemiologyists doing statistical analysis of a vast data set. Where does the ai come in?

<comment><USER41> Oh, it looks like fat fingers on a phone. I'm not even aware of this OP

<comment><USER41> This is the one I meant to comment on [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23192492](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23192492)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> It's not surprising that historically plague-ridden Europeans would be less susceptible to a new blight then other ethnicities. Disease resistance has been selected for.

<comment><USER43> Asia got all the same plagues as Europe

<comment><USER40> The two regions often responded very dissimilarly. nKyle Harper'sb _The Fate of Rome_ looks at this in depth.

TL:DR; civilisation's patterns (cities, trade, travel) co-evolve diseases. Populations tend to evolve resistance to local endemic disease, but are susceptible to novel agents, including foreign infections. Rome infected China and vice versa.</comment></comment></comment>


U.S. courts consider legality of laptop inspections at the border - <AUTHOR> http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/07/america/legal.php At the end of the article:<p><i>There are all sorts of lessons in these cases. One is that the border seems be a privacy-free zone. A second is that encryption programs work. A third is that you should keep your password to yourself. And the most important is that you should leave your laptop at home. </i> <comment><AUTHOR> Best excerpt from the end of the article:

 _There are all sorts of lessons in these cases. One is that the border seems be a privacy-free zone. A second is that encryption programs work. A third is that you should keep your password to yourself. And the most important is that you should leave your laptop at home._</comment>


Tell HN: Use.fortawesome.com is serving an invalid certificate - <AUTHOR> Just noticed this: https://use.fortawesome.com/ serves an invalid certificate which means that for example on fontawesome.com icons aren't displayed.<p>I'm guessing other sites are also affected. <comment><USER2> Why is this something that everyone on HN needs to be aware of?

Did you (attempt to) report this to the site?</comment>


Makeitopen.com – new Open Source learning site from Facebook - <AUTHOR> http://makeitopen.com/ <comment><USER2> Does anyone know why Facebook never followed through with open sourcing Haystack, the photo storage tool which I believe is now powering inbox attachments as well?

<comment><USER3> Had never heard of Haystack before. A few relevant links in case anyone is interested (It is the system powering facebook's photo storage infra):

\- [https://www.usenix.org/legacy/event/osdi10/tech/full_papers/...](https://www.usenix.org/legacy/event/osdi10/tech/full_papers/Beaver.pdf)

\- [https://web.archive.org/web/20140906020211/https://www.faceb...](https://web.archive.org/web/20140906020211/https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=76191543919) (The note is not up anymore)

\- [http://www.niallkennedy.com/blog/2009/04/facebook- haystack.h...](http://www.niallkennedy.com/blog/2009/04/facebook- haystack.html)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Lots of great and thorough content here, and I'm really happy that it uses Parse Server! [https://github.com/parseplatform/parse- server](https://github.com/parseplatform/parse-server)</comment>


Ask HN: What should I do in Silicon Valley? - <AUTHOR> It may feel like a dumb question to some, but it's real.
It's going to be my first time visiting San Francisco and Silicon Valley, and I'm completely overwhelmed.
I want to visit startups and co-working spaces, but there are so many options that I'm just stuck.
Could anyone point me to the right direction with this? <comment><USER2> You should start a startup, launch, get funding . . . and become a legend.

Don't think for a second that I am joking— I'm dead serious.

<comment><USER3> Came to SF for 3 days to see the area, left with a startup and 3 million in seed funding...

<comment> kuro-kuris Is it because you knew the right people in SF? I am going to be visiting soon and I would love to get some insight into the startup culture.

<comment><USER3> Hah no idea don't live there

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I wrote this for some ideas: [http://thestartupconference.com/tips-for-first- time-attendee...](http://thestartupconference.com/tips-for-first-time- attendees/)

</comment><comment><USER5> I will be visiting SF Bay Area in 10 days :D</comment>


Why do we accept bullshit from Android/ios? - waqas- Imagine, on your laptop, linux, win or mac, as soon an you connect to internet a bunch of apps start downloading stuff from the internet in the background and you have little or no control over it, and that is the default behavior. There would be riots. But we accept the same from Android and IOS. Requiring so many intrusive permissions that were unheard of in desktop apps and starting without user initiative. For example whatsapp, as soon as you connect data or wifi, it starts downloading shit and you cannot stop it. The apps start without the user asking for it. Same goes for the facebook app, and so many others - sometimes slowing and crashing older devices. I just dont understand why it is accepted on your phone where the privacy is arguably more important, and not accepted in desktop - which does not allow apps to have so much control over when they start or stop. Specifically i want to know what is being done about it? Is there a mobile OS being developed out there that will respect the user and device owner more than the manufacturer? <comment><AUTHOR> The assumption is that since those devices lack (convenient) input devices, the user has a hard time controlling them and therefore they get a free run.

In a unix system, a runaway program is very close to a kill command. It's so ingrained int the ecosystem that it's actually one of the easiest command to give, in any UI provided: C-c in the terminal, C-a K (or close button) in window managers, etc.

But on handheld computers, there's no key, no button to kill a program. The best you can do on iOS is a double-click on the home button, then a long-press on the icons, and then a click on the delete button on the icon. On Android it's similarly convoluted.

This is also the reason I guess, why originally no programming (or scripting) system is provided on those computers.

But it is more from a lack of imagination on the part of Apple and Android, than a real limitation of the input devices. You have to remember that those devices and their software is not designed by programmers, but by fashion designers. The purpose is to make them beautiful, not practical, so they may sell a lot of them thru pure peer pressure and keeping-up-with-the-joneses. My golden iPhone is better than your silver iPhone.

So basically, there's space for whole new OSes running on those devices. Probably easier done on Android where the hardware documentation might be obtained more easily, but you could also replace iOS on rooted Apple devices.

<comment> waqas- a kill button comes later in the process. on android apps start in the background without being initiated by the user. windows had the simple "msconfig" to change that, linux doesnt even lets apps get startup permissions without asking user to enter their password and agree. but on android its the opposite. every app will start whenever the app developer wants it to. it will start and it will use your internet and send your location and your messages and the name of your grandma to the developers server and google and whoever the developer wants it to. and i dont see any escape from this.

</comment></comment><comment><USER2> Agreed. Android's all-or-nothing permissions is horrendous and causes me to avoid most apps.</comment>


Europe heatwave breaks more temperature records - <AUTHOR> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49108847 <comment><USER2> I think the thing that's hard about European heatwaves is the relative lack of air conditioning. In the US, it's been my experience that far more houses have an aircon than is typical in Europe.

We just broke down and bought an airconditioner for the office, we're working out of the library today. It's too hot to do work effectively right now.

</comment><comment><USER3> Same topic (also bbc.com) discussed yesterday [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20521102](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20521102)

<comment><USER4> Yeah but in Germany the record was broken again. Yesterdays record breaker was 40.5C, today's is 40.9C.

<comment><USER5> Also France, Belgium, Netherlands noticed record highs today.

[https://www.france24.com/en/20190725-europe-france- germany-h...](https://www.france24.com/en/20190725-europe-france-germany-heat- wave-global-climate-change)

But Warsaw is 27C, Minsk 21C, Smolensk 18C, Moscow 22C. So not entire Europe is baking in heatwave only the Western part.

[https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/500hPa/o...](https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/500hPa/orthographic=30.27,48.78,1459)

The same circulation is responsible for chilly summer in Eastern Europe. So, not all bad.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Heres an official flightplan from an some acutall atmospheric programs. The last on the list just startet at 22.july. If they test tropical aerosols, then its no wonder, why its so hot. Theres the list [http://www.halo.dlr.de/](http://www.halo.dlr.de/)

And its actual and last program: [http://www.halo.dlr.de/science/missions/southtrac/southtrac....](http://www.halo.dlr.de/science/missions/southtrac/southtrac.html)

<comment><USER7> What are you insinuating? That atmospheric research causes heatwaves in Europe?

<comment><USER6> If they do research with tropic aerosols, yes. But if you klick on it, page not found. So, ant say it for 100%. There was a NASA takes it to the MAX jetfuelresearch, started Jan. 2018 over germany. They did nothing else, then testing different fuels, with different effect on atmosphere. [https://www.nasa.gov/aero/nasa-takes-international- aviation-...](https://www.nasa.gov/aero/nasa-takes-international-aviation- research-to-the-max) I dont like these things, because they can cause unpredictable consequences.

<comment><USER8> Is there any more to this analysis than a correlation? I.E. That there was something that happened in the general area some time period ago?

I'm talking about things like thermodynamic carrying capacity, total mass of the test, prevailing wind patterns with estimates of where the aerosol might be now?

A simple bayesian analysis for the current facts: what's more likely to have caused the warming - a test that generated injected a small amount of mass into the air, or the massive increase of CO2 over the last several decades?

Based on these two comments, it seems like you're putting too much emphasis on correlation, and not enough analysis in to some actual thermodynamics.

If you do have access to deeper analysis, please post them. I would be interested in learning something new.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Free version of Brightback helps subscription businesses reduce Covid-churn - <AUTHOR> If you work for company with subscription model and loosing customers because of COVID - we've just released free version of Brightback to help reduce churn and retain customers that want to leave due to COVID related reasons.
https://brightback.com/free-cancel-page-for-covid19
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/subscription-businesses-seeing-more-churn-right-now-we-guy-marion/ <comment><AUTHOR> [https://footwearnews.com/2020/business/retail/brightback- sub...](https://footwearnews.com/2020/business/retail/brightback-subscription- service-retention-cancelations-1202954569/)</comment>


Show HN: Captain, a Docker menu bar app for Mac - <AUTHOR> https://getcaptain.co/ <comment><USER2> Alas: "Docker not available"

<comment><AUTHOR> Captain only works for the recent "Docker for Mac" packages. It doesn't detect Homebrew or "Docker Toolbox" installations yet.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Dealing with multiple internship job offers - <AUTHOR>

I'm expecting a job offer from Company A sometime this week, and I also have my first interview with Company B.  There's a second interview after that before they make a decision.  I'm not sure when the Company A will expect me to get back to them on the offer.  I like Company A, but Company B has some significant advantages that I cannot ignore.<p>What should I do if the Company A expects a response before I get an answer from Company B?  I informed Company B that I would be dealing with another offer, but they didn't directly address that when they scheduled my interview shortly after that.  I feel like I have to wait for Company B, but if it goes on too long it's possible that I could end up with neither job. <comment><USER2> In every interview you must be clear about when you will make your decision, and when they will. It's basic politeness not a negotiating tactic. When A calls you back, tell them thanks and that you will let them know by X. When dealing with B, tell them that you will make your decision by X as well.

If A want an answer now, be firm but polite. If they want you they'll wait. If they think you are a dime-a-dozen they won't. Better to find that out now. In the future make date X clear from the getgo.

</comment><comment><USER3> You may find this an interesting reading : <http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/11/26.html></comment>


$35 Atomic Pi Cherry Trail Linux SBC - <AUTHOR> https://www.cnx-software.com/2019/04/26/buy-atomic-pi-cherry-trail-sbc/ <comment><USER4> I've never been keen on SBCs using "Pi" in the name to ride on the Raspberry Pi's coattails. I'm surprised the Raspberry Pi foundation aren't more protective of it, if I'm honest.

At least in the case of the Banana Pi etc the board is the same form factor and fits into existing RPi cases, and even runs on the same architecture. This thing has literally nothing in common with the RPi apart from being another SBC.

<comment><USER5> Totally agree, though reminiscent of the early days of PC's with IBM (the OS and PC name..) and again naming conventions with Intel (they wanted to trademark 386 etc and was told they could not do that with numbers - <USER2> they started using the Pentium brand they could trademark along with a massive campaign of Intel Inside...).

Lucky the more savvy consumer see's right thru this tailgating and more so in the realms of arm SBC's.

But equally, Raspberry could not trademark "Pi" or indeed "Raspberry", though they could trademark "Raspberry Pi" \- [https://www.raspberrypi.org/trademark- rules/](https://www.raspberrypi.org/trademark-rules/)

Though, as they wanted to recreate the early fun days of computing, this whole `plagiarism` angle sure does rekindle some nostalgia.

<comment><USER6> _> But equally, Raspberry could not trademark "Pi" or indeed "Raspberry"_

One very close counter example would be "Blackberry". You absolutely can trademark common words for use in specific markets. Another infamous example is "Apple" as both a computer company and a music label. Had there been other computers already using "Raspberry" or "Pi", they likely would have run into issues using "Raspberry Pi".

<comment><USER5> Yes, though in Apples case they fell foul of Apple records and eventually settled that they would not do anything music related. That changed, though they financially better placed to handle and settle that issue than the initial conflict.

Just checked for a wiki entry and good to see my memory of that era not that bad: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> The price to performance is crazy. If this had an extra ethernet port it would be the go-to router.

What is really lacks is a easy power supply option. No barrel jack and it needs up to 20w so more than regular usb can supply. The breakout board, which I assume as a barrel jack, is not for sale on amazon yet.

I don't think antennas are included, and I don't know if they are absolutely required.

Edit: I don't see any sata or pci interfaces which is disappointing. Also the power breakout board has screw terminals not a barrel jack.

<comment><USER8> It's an attractive offer. The Pine64 RockPro64 (RK3399 based) may offer even more bang for the buck if you're ok with spending $60.

<comment><USER9> Keep in mind that all the Pine64 hardware has a 3 month warranty [1] that requires shipping the faulty device back. This made me very hesitant to buy any of their stuff.

[1] [https://www.pine64.org/?page_id=443](https://www.pine64.org/?page_id=443)

<comment><USER10> Not sure if this applies as the country it's purchased from or purchased in. I thought if they take a payment from a european and ship to europe then this law applies [https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/gua...](https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees- returns/index_en.htm)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> The consensus in the comments seems to be that these boards were designed for another product that was scrapped and now being sold off as a SBC. So stock is likely to be extremely limited.

<comment><USER12> Wasn't that true of the SoC on the original Raspberry Pi, too? There is a pattern of "offcuts" becoming productized if they stumble into a niche.

<comment><USER13> Videocore 4 processors were also used in a bunch of phones and media boxes. The fact the Raspberry Pi was built on it was more because Eben Upton had worked on it.

But it is fair to say they wouldn't have fabbed anywhere near as many had it not been for the Raspberry Pi.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VideoCore](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VideoCore)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I got one of these as an emulation box because a retropi couldn't handle the N64 games I wanted to run, and for that purpose it's worked brilliantly. It's pretty cool that it's x86-I plan to try and do some WINE gaming on it as well which isn't possible on, say, a retropi. I haven't tried the official images, but it runs fine with the standard Ubuntu image.

Setup notes: [http://blog.eamonnmr.com/2019/04/atomic-pi-emulation- setup-n...](http://blog.eamonnmr.com/2019/04/atomic-pi-emulation-setup-notes/)

<comment><USER15> WINE will run on the Pi albeit you need to run it on top of x86 emulator. I've seen examples using qemu but there are guides online using other tools too. I've not tried it myself but from what I've read it's still fast enough to run some Windows games.

Obviously if you have an x86 box then that would be better suited. But the above is worth mentioning just in case anyone else should read your comment who doesn't have any besides a Raspberry Pi but still wants access to retro games for IBM-compatible machines.

<comment><USER16> Performance should totally suck when doing that, doesn't it?

<comment><USER15> You would expect so but I haven't tried it personally because I had a spare NUK laying around anyway.

I think the real question is how old or recent are the games you're wanting to play? Games consoles would have to be emulated too and the Pi can still pull of some N64 and PS1 games.

<comment><USER14> Some N64 games are too much for the Pi, which is why I got one of these things. I imagine other games from the 90s/very early 00s should run on it. Will probably update the post if/when I do.

<comment><USER15> > _Some N64 games are too much for the Pi_

This is why I said "some" in previous post :)

> _Will probably update the post if /when I do._

Please do. I'd be interested to know

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> What about power consumption? I have a RPI 3B+ at house that runs Docker containers, these would be a major step up in terms of image compatibility, but I'm worried about a major step up in terms of electricity cost too.

<comment><USER18> Reading the comments . It seems almost half the power requirement is needed to power the amps for the audio . So if ur not using it u won't reach that power use

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> ... and it's gone already from Amazon lol.

</comment><comment><USER6> Just a fair warning to anyone thinking about backing anything on Kickstarter: _You have absolutely no legal recourse to against a company that doesn 't deliver your goods_. You pay Kickstarter, Kickstarter pays the company. Kickstarter is the only one who can enforce their terms against the company, and they're notoriously famous for refusing to do so. There is a long list of Kickstarter campaigns where the founders just took the money and ran. Even ones where the founder appears to have all of the best intentions fall apart.

Not saying to never back any croudfunding, but know what you're getting in to. From what I've seen, you get better odds at a casino.

<comment><USER20> I wouldn't put kickstarter odds THAT low... I've backed dozens of campaigns now and so far had exactly one that has totally failed to deliver (the company went flat out bust after getting royally screwed by all of their supply chain - Next Thing Co, the people that made the C.H.I.P and pocketCHIP - <USER3> themselves successful KS projects) and one that is in forever development - Star Citizen, but at least they drop regular alpha versions... For everything else I have alt least gotten my product eventually. though I do pick my backs very carefully. I admit there is a lot of obvous vapourware though, but it's easily balanced out by genuine people trying to get a product off the ground, and are usually smaller in scope with much more realistic targets. They don't usually make headlines though ;)

<comment><USER6> I actually got my CHIP, though I ordered it on their website and not Kickstarter. I got screwed on the Peachy Printer. While I technically didn't get screwed on the M3D Printer, it was delayed so long, cheaper and better printers where available by the time I got mine. The closest I came to backing another was the "ABC of Connection" book. It was supposedly a book that was already done, and just had to be printed, so how could that fail? He never delivered the printed material, but eventually delivered a PDF. The PDF showed it was far from complete, and the dates in it showed he hadn't done any real work on it since taking the money. The whole time he was claiming issues with the printer, when it was no where near ready for printing.

<comment><USER20> It wasn't the actual CHIP... I got my CHIP and a pocketCHIP. I had a great e-mail relationship with one of the founders prior to pCHIP release, and the community was excellent. I was actually talking about voder though which was mid development when the financial rug was pulled out and NTC just quietly vanished with all the cries of "where's my CHIP?" in the forum... That's unfortunate about your printer and book. I've backed book (Bitmap books visual commpendium series) and music projects (Chris Huelsbeck Turrican anthology and SIDologie - Sidology took a while to complete but the end result has been stellar) and to date they have all been excellent.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Would these things be grunty enough to play x265 10bit encoded video?

<comment><USER22> Not x86, and no idea how the driver support is, but the Jetson Nano has a pretty "grunty" GPU for a $99 board: [https://developer.nvidia.com/embedded/buy/jetson-nano- devkit](https://developer.nvidia.com/embedded/buy/jetson-nano-devkit)

<comment><USER23> The jetson nano is an interesting device: with Windows 10 on ARM and Parsec, it could provide a great terminal server.

I'm not aware of any remote desktop supporting H265 or VP9 encoding on Linux, and offering a matching low latency (cf [https://flickstiq.com/2018/05/nvidia- gpus-outperform-amd-for...](https://flickstiq.com/2018/05/nvidia-gpus- outperform-amd-for-game-streaming/) )

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> I've always been curious - having a x86 chip in a this form factor - is this a big deal? Hasn't ARM already saturated this segment of the market?

<comment><USER25> I've got a tablet[1] that uses almost the same CPU. When I got it they were $80 and it's better than it has any right to be at that price, but it performs about like a 2002-ish Pentium except with hardware video acceleration. If I wanted maximum performance for the dollar I wouldn't go with an Atom.

[1] [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MYZEPGP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b...](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MYZEPGP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

<comment><USER26> The Atom C3000 series is a beast with 10G Ethernet, up to 16C and support for ECC DDR4.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Official product page: [https://digital-loggers.com/api.html](https://digital- loggers.com/api.html)

<comment><USER28> Thank you! The Amazon listing is gone.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> Hell yes. This is a cheaper looking latte panda... though the panda you can get 4GB RAM (~$149)... I'm really hoping to see more x86 based single board computers. The ARM manufacturers I think have gotten a bit lazy and could use some competition... plus running x86 chips does make life a lot easier for more complex applications.

</comment><comment><USER30> Is there a similar thing, but with more RAM? 4GB seems to be the minimum for what I'm thinking about :/

<comment><USER22> There are, like the UDOO x86 or LattePanda, but they get fairly expensive.

A used Asus Chromebox is often a better route. You can flash the bios and run regular Linux. Then you get a nice case, power supply, and regular dimm slots.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> I've never seen a real Raspberry Pi with such an enormous heat sink.

</comment><comment><USER32> 6000 units max apparently.

</comment><comment><USER33> I have an itch to cram as many as possible into a 2U or 3U rack case just to get a massive cluster of compute going. It would certainly be an interesting project.

</comment><comment><USER34> have somebody found a PSU that can power this board? 5v 4amp is not something available cheap. also, custom power connector?

<comment><USER35> Mean Well RS-25-5 is $10 and it's a good quality manufacturer [https://octopart.com/rs-25-5-mean+well-3991989?r=sp&s=rB_LI6...](https://octopart.com/rs-25-5-mean+well-3991989?r=sp&s=rB_LI6HhS5Gaxds2FNaimg)</comment></comment>


When tech startups == closed restaurants - <AUTHOR> http://blog.scoutapp.com/articles/2010/02/19/tech-startups-restaurants

<comment><USER2> Why do people in the software business feel the constant need to compare it to other fields? I don't know of any other profession that does.

I think the restaurant analogy is flawed because the accounting for fixed and variable costs doesn't jibe. You can bootstrap a software company with minimal investment - as YC itself proves, but restaurants require a building, cooking equipment, tables, chairs, dishes, etc. Plus, you can start a software business in your spare time - something I doubt too many restaurateurs attempt.

<comment><USER3> I agree that the software business is new, but it's still business, and the laws of business still apply. You need to have revenues greater than costs and steady cashflow to keep the doors open and the lights on. Lots of us in software forget things like that.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> The article is is too vague and its advice unbalanced. Sure, you don't want to JUST be ticking off programming related todo list items. Yes, you need to do your marketing (adwords,blogging,emailing,etc.) and you need to watch your burn rate (fiscal management). However, the best marketing is having a great product. The users you do get to sign up you need to keep and in turn have them then do word of mouth. How do you do that with not-so-special software?

I don't like the analogy either as there are not enough details. A lot of restaurant startups I have noticed that tank think quality is everything. The have a two-month burn rate and need to be smash hit by the third (I am speculating). I don't want to contradict what I just said about web application quality but you got to balance and hang around for at least certain duration. I like this article on the subject of duration [http://www.dshen.com/blogs/business/archives/lasting_two_yea...](http://www.dshen.com/blogs/business/archives/lasting_two_years.shtml).

IMHO 30% Marketing. 30% Fiscal management and creativity. 40% Continued application development and enhancement.

</comment><comment><USER5> Great stuff. Next time someone demands you code something for free, ask them to feed you for free. Quite an apt analogy.

<comment><USER6> Restuarants regularly give away free samples to gain "word of mouth" reputation.

<comment><USER5> That's the fremium model, yes. I was referring to people who demand that all software is easy and should be free.</comment></comment></comment>


Root EM Using CSS3 "rem" Units for "Elastic Pixels" - <AUTHOR> http://jsbin.com/acide4/8

<comment><USER2> This was true a few years ago. Haven't all major browsers made it so that when you zoom in, it does actually zoom px (as well as images, etc)? (example: <http://cl.ly/1O2d3s1Y3R213O1B0U1x>)

Meaning that, basically, you use the following rules:

      px = you want it to be x pixels when not zoomed at all
      em = you want it to be relative to the parent div (ex: parent is 10px + child is 1.1em = child is 11px)

Personally, I find em to be a bit too susceptible to breakage since they're relative to the size of the parent (which is relative to the size of their parent, etc).

Using rem is interesting, however I disagree with most of what was said in this post.

</comment><comment><USER3> I don't get it. This technique "succeeds"... in that trying to zoom in/out of the page is broken, so pixels are truly staying pixels.

But that defeats all the principles web sizing is based on. You should virtually never write CSS that is dependent on the physical pixels of the device. I can't even think of a case where you would want to.* Write code for logical pixels ("px"), and let the browser/device do all the zoom/dpi/retina/etc. calculations to give the user the size that makes sense for their display.

This is regression, not progress. The author says "px unit's don't scale"... No, they _do_ scale, that's the whole point. The author's solution maps logical pixels to physical pixels, which is a bad idea.

* Sole exception being resolution of images (normal, retina, etc.), but that has nothing to do with "rem" units.

<comment><USER4> The broken zoom-in/out is probably a bug and should be fixed soon. I think you're confusing rem with vw/vh, rem has nothing to do with pixels AFAIK. 1em is equal to the font-size of the element you're applying it to while 1rem is always equal to the font-size of the root element i.e., <html>.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> 'px' are already not defined in terms of actual pixels by CSS. I don't see why this is necessary or interesting.

</comment><comment><USER6> This doesn't work at all in my Firefox: <http://i.imgur.com/O1gUL.png>

<comment><USER7> What is it supposed to look like? Because it looks like that to me too, and I figured it was supposed to.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Should this be in production? Is anyone using this on production?

</comment><comment><USER9> If I try to zoom the screen on chrome/increase font size the boxes/buttons stay the same size. This looks like accessibility issues.

</comment><comment><USER10> and a JSFiddle (not mine) to play around with rem units

<comment><USER11> You forgot the link.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> I like the rem unit, but for a different reason. If I want to change the font size of everything at once, just change the size of the root element. Everything follows from that.

<comment><USER7> When would you ever want to do that?

If you have a specific segment of the page sure - but then you can just use percents.

But your entire site? I don't think you'll ever have to do that, certainly not often enough to need a whole new unit.</comment></comment>


Hive Mind A.I. Forecasts Tech Trends (TechCrunch) - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2016/06/09/unu-set-to-forecast-tech-trends-after-accurate-oscars-kentucky-derby-predictions/ <comment><USER2> How is this AI? Sounds more like a prediction market?

<comment><AUTHOR> Most A.I. technologies emulate the biology of Neurological Intelligence. This A.I. technology emulates the biology of Swarm Intelligence.

A swarm is unlike a market and has been shown to outperform. The reason is that a market is sequential, subject to momentum and bubbles. A swarm is parallel, all the participating agents converging on answers in synchrony.

As I understand it, that is why biologists look at swarms as "emergent intelligence" that acts like a super-organism. The UNU technology creates such a system for humans, by enabling the real-time feedback loops artificially.</comment></comment>


Apply HN – GoKrazee "Rewards Every Challenge" - <AUTHOR> GoKrazee connects brands with people through gamified selfie & video challenges making it fun, interactive and rewarding for a user and a brand.Let me give you an example: Dogspot set a challenge for our users "Take a cool selfie with your pet" win $2 to shop with dogspot (no terms & conditions:)). <comment><USER2> I'm having trouble visualizing the economics of this. Why would I spend maybe 30 minutes trying to earn $2?

Could you do this with much larger rewards for fewer advertisers? eg CocaCola will reward $1000 to somebody who makes a great coke-drinking selfie video. The incentives are aligned for creators and for the advertiser. For only $1000 they get a bunch of user-created content and the user gets a nice little windfall.

<comment><AUTHOR> Great question Buss. We do both. We help brands to pick from our curated list of challenges or they come up with their own. It takes less than 30 seconds for a user to complete the challenge and win the reward.Brands can also buy the content created by the user by paying them for it. We end up getting a % on the reward and if the brands want to buy the content we get a cut as well. It's a win-win for the user, brand and us.</comment></comment>


Containerisation tool without daemons in Rust - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/tailhook/vagga

<comment><USER2> [http://vagga.readthedocs.org/en/latest/vagga_features.html](http://vagga.readthedocs.org/en/latest/vagga_features.html) hits the nail on the head. It explains very well why vagga is an interesting option compared to Vagrant and Docker for developer environments.

EDIT: reading more of the docs, it really shows that the author is familiar with all of _my_ use-cases. It really looks fantastic.

EDIT2: it seems like it's missing the docker "link" functionality.</comment>


MoBeers - Mobile Development Talks + Beers in Waterloo - <AUTHOR> http://blog.vidyard.com/event-review-mobeers-mobile-development-beers

<comment><USER2> MoBeers was also mentioned in this Globe and Mail article about RIM:

[http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/in-rims- waterl...](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/in-rims-waterloo-the- stakes-have-never-been-higher/article2271951/)

</comment><comment><USER3> I wish I could have made it to this, but by the time my availability opened up it was sold out!

</comment><comment><USER4> will there be another one next term? Missed this one due to being away on Coop term.

<comment><USER5> yep, mobeers 3 is currently being planned right now. very big names are on their way to waterloo ;)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> that's awesome</comment>