Elon Musk: artificial intelligence is our biggest existential threat - <AUTHOR> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/oct/27/elon-musk-artificial-intelligence-ai-biggest-existential-threat

<comment><USER2> I always though our biggest existential threat were Nukes and other WMDs. AI could potentially become yet another existential threat (especially if mixed with WMDs).

I would not fret over computers using AI to "see" or "hear" or even learn how to walk. I would start worrying the day computers start formulating judgments, I could not find any research in that direction. Anyone knows if such research exists?

On a more personal note, i can't say i agree with some people picking on Elon for formulating this opinion. Especially that it does not sound so unreasonable, really.

<comment><USER3> Well, there's:

* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicarious_(Company)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicarious_\(Company\))

* IBM's various initiatives led by [http://researcher.watson.ibm.com/researcher/view.php?person=...](http://researcher.watson.ibm.com/researcher/view.php?person=us-dmodha)

* Kurzweil is presumably doing something similar inside Google, as well.

<comment><USER4> IBM's Synapse/True North chip optimizes interconnect, much like synapses do. It's interesting because it's actually a new silicon process, and already it's low-power.

If it can be used to solve optimization problems, like logic minimization in a compiler, it might actually enable practical 'strong'-type AI. This is because IBM has essentially invented a practical hardware solution to NP-complete problems, where theoretical software solutions don't seem to exist.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> As a result of these fears, AIs will be sandboxed:

[http://goo.gl/AUJH4t](http://goo.gl/AUJH4t)

Subsequently having their interactions monitored and restricted for a period of probation:

[http://goo.gl/3XJjHY](http://goo.gl/3XJjHY)

Look familiar?

<comment> benji-york It's too bad sandboxes aren't very secure. See [http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/AI- box_experiment](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/AI-box_experiment)

<comment><USER3> Yeah, since humans of today have been shown to break any/all (?) existing sandboxes, how could we even try to create a sandbox that is unbreakable to an accelerating, self-improving AI?

<comment><USER6> And would it be ethical? Hand Moravec has written disturbingly about this issue: "So is there no difference between being cruel to characters in interactive books or video games and people one meets in the street? Books or games act on a reader's future only via the mind, and actions within them are mostly reversed if the experience is forgotten. Physical actions, by contrast, have greater significance because their consequences spread irreversibly. If past physical events could be easily altered, as in some time-travel stories, if one could go back to prevent evil or unfortunate deeds, real life would acquire the moral significance of a video game. A more disturbing implication is that any sealed-off activity, whose goings on can be forgotten, may be in the video game category. Creators of hyperrealistic simulations---or even secure physical enclosures---containing individuals writhing in pain are not necessarily more wicked than authors of fiction with distressed characters, or myself, composing this sentence vaguely alluding to them. The suffering preexists in the underlying Platonic worlds; authors merely look on. The significance of running such simulations is limited to their effect on viewers, possibly warped by the experience, and by the possibility of ``escapees''\---tortured minds that could, in principle, leak out to haunt the world in data networks or physical bodies. Potential plagues of angry demons surely count as a moral consequence. In this light, mistreating people, intelligent robots, or individuals in high-resolution simulations has greater moral significance than doing the same at low resolution or in works of fiction not because the suffering individuals are more real---they are not--- but because the probability of undesirable consequences in our own future is greater." [http://www.frc.ri.cmu.edu/~hpm/project.archive/general.artic...](http://www.frc.ri.cmu.edu/~hpm/project.archive/general.articles/1998/SimConEx.98.html)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Wishful thinking. In the unlikely event that AI reaches the level of housefly within my lifetime, it will occur at a level above humanity, in the same way that an individual's conciousness occurs at a level above brain cells.

<comment><USER6> Any particular reason why you believe that? Sounds like a bit of a strong statement given our lack of knowledge about how consciousness works.

<comment><USER3> In my experince most/all people who think this way do so because of religion.

<comment><USER6> Well, it sounds more like superorganism talk to me. The possibility of a superorganism "above" humanity doesn't seem to me to have any bearing on the development of AI "alongside" humanity...</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Apple's Judicial System - <AUTHOR> http://inessential.com/2016/10/06/apples_judicial_system <comment><USER2> Well said. I've used and depended on Dash almost every day for years, and I've followed its development closely. I know the developer has absolutely no reason to manipulate reviews, and that this allegation is false and unsupportable. I also know from firsthand experience how impenetrable the App Store review system can be, and unfortunately was forced to leverage a connection to get my Mac app unstuck and onto the Store. I sincerely hope Apple does right by this developer and the many others I'm sure who are being wronged. This has got to change.</comment>


My application to intern at foursquare - <AUTHOR> http://aorshan.wordpress.com/2012/02/20/my-application-to-foursquare/

<comment><USER2> Great initiative; hope you get the internship. I showed it to a friend who hires ~5 interns per summer in Austin (more communication / consulting, less technology) and she loved it.

Good luck!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! I'm glad to hear someone else liked it.</comment></comment>


No problem, we'll adjust the data to fit the model - <AUTHOR> http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~cook/movabletype/archives/2010/03/no_problem_well.html <comment> rm-rf Assume that there are always errors in the data, and that the errors in the data are unbiased - i.e. that half of the errors are biased towards the model and half are biased away from the model.

In cases where the errors are biased away from the model (the errors do not support the hypothesis that the model is based on), the scientist will have a tendency to double-check the data, comb through it and correct the errors. That's certainly what I'd do.

In cases where the errors are biased toward the model however, there is no incentive for the scientists to comb the data and correct the errors. Why would she, as the data re-enforces the model and the hypothesis. Publish the paper, get tenure and take a sabbatical.

It sounds to me like there will always be a bias toward the model - <USER2> because the data will only get the extra scrutiny that it needs to eliminate measurement errors in cases where it disagrees with the model, thereby taking unbiased errors and turning them into biased errors, with the bias always toward the model.

That's my hypothesis, and to make sure it's valid, I'll accept without question any data that supports it, and I'll double-extra analyze and carefully correct any data that doesn't.

<comment><USER3> If the model is very good then random errors will not be "unbiased" in your sense: they will all be "away from the model". In fact, if the model is any good at all then random errors will more often be away from it than towards it.

There _is_ an incentive for scientists to check for errors that make their models look better. You're more likely to get famous for finding an error in a widely used model than for yet another confirmation that it works OK. (Even more likely if you can come up with a better model. More likely still if that better model is different in illuminating ways.)

I expect there still is a tendency for measurements to get distorted towards better fit with models. But it's not as one-sided as you make it sound.

<comment> rm-rf "There is an incentive for scientists to check for errors..."

Unless your career, grants and funding are dependent on the validity of the model, or if the model is highly politicized. In those cases, there is no incentive for finding errors that undermine the model.

Richard Feynmans paper on Cargo Cult Science has a explanation of how Millikans electron charge measurements drifted over time because of measurement bias. In that case, there almost certainly wasn't any politics involved, so the follow on experiments drifted toward a more accurate measurement. But as Feynman indicates in his paper, the fact that the measurements drifted slowly and incrementally, rather than in a corrective step indicates that the scientists who made the follow on measurements were biased towards Millikans' original results - even though his original measurements were not as accurate as the follow on measurements.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> _But when the data are complicated --- by which I mean, there are many different effects that must be accounted for in order to interpret the raw data as a measurement of a parameter of interest --- then it's not necessarily a surprise to find problems with the data, and to find that when those problems are fixed the result is better agreement with a model._

"The problems are fixed" based on what? You can't use the model to "fix" them, since the model has validity only insofar as it tracks data points. In short, this is simply circular reasoning: the model has no validity beyond it's ability to explain and predict data values.

<comment><USER5> You figure out what the problem in the measurements might be and correct for that based on your hypothesis of what the problem might be -- then compare the new results to the model predictions (and _other_ data). The tacit assumption is that model should predict the data, if it doesn't either the data or the model is borked. If other data supports the model, then you're going to look at the _data_ first -- especially if it's new data collected in a new way.

The satellite example is perfect, they didn't take the model output and add a factor based on that. No, they hypothesized that the satellite height was different and that was affecting the data, checked that, found ample evidence for it. Adjusted the data _based on the height_ (not the model) and lo and behold, the data more closely matched the existing model. The likelihood that this kind of independent factor makes all the difference for a bad model is quite small.

Where the bias might come in is that one would have a tendency to only look for errors in data not fitting the model(s) or other data. But no one is suggesting that you readjust the data to match the model output -- what they may be saying is that if your data doesn't match the model -- you better be able to justify it.. and that starts with the data and proceeds to a new iteration of the model as you gain more confidence in the data.

<comment><USER6> Everything you describe sounds fine, but in the aggregate it privileges the hypothesis.

When data supports the model, it is accepted. When it contradicts the model, extra scrutiny is applied. In short, a higher standard of evidence is required when you disagree with the hypothesis. It's kind of like accepting p-values of 0.05 when you agree with the model, but 0.01 when you disagree. It creates a bias in favor of the model.

When huge arbitrary amounts of new evidence are available (e.g., an experimental field), this won't matter. In fields without experiments (climate science, oceanography, economics), this effect can protect a bad hypothesis.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> So how do you tell between options (1 & 2) and (3)?

It's not satisfying to chalk it up to "consensus", I think. Gelman himself recommends very generalized model checking as a philosophy to search the space of underlying theories, but aren't Bayesian methods supposed to let us "put a prior on that"? Why must something like human intuition go unmodeled?

</comment><comment><USER8> I guess it would make sense that the earth is in a _stable_ equilibrium rather than an unstable one.

At the same time, that stable equilibrium may be a local maximum rather than global one, so let's not push it too much.

Climate meteorologists have really done a brilliant job of telling the world they have no idea what they're talking about. I'm not a global warming skeptic, in the sense that I believe we should do something about our production of polluting gases (greenhouse or others), but this seems one of the odd cases where scientists simply cannot be trusted to provide useful information.

<comment><USER3> "Climate meteorologists"?

I think it's more accurate to say: A small number of people, most of whom are not climate scientists, have really done a brilliant job of telling the world that climate scientists have no idea what they're talking about. (The difference between your description and mine is that yours has the climate scientists doing something self-undermining and mine doesn't; so if my description is better, then one actually has to look at the science to describe which side is nearer to the truth. How inconvenient.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> The appropriate xkcd:

<http://xkcd.com/701/></comment>


NodeSource survey reveals developers are slacking on security - <AUTHOR> https://sdtimes.com/nodesource-survey-reveals-developers-slacking-security/ <comment><USER2> Hopefully the initiatives of the Node.js security Working group ([https://github.com/nodejs/security-wg](https://github.com/nodejs/security- wg)) will raise the bar here.</comment>


Gender Stereotypes in Clothes - <AUTHOR> https://www.letclothesbeclothes.co.uk/gender-stereotypes <comment><USER2> Just in case you care about this stuff, Let Clothes Be Clothes is transphobic and spreads misinformation about relevant law in the UK.</comment>


A Fast-Food Problem: Where Have All the Teenagers Gone? - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/03/upshot/fast-food-jobs-teenagers-shortage.html <comment><USER2> I note from the article: "Mr. Kaplow has tried everything he can think of to find workers, placing Craigslist ads, asking other franchisees for referrals, seeking to hire people from Subways that have closed."

it does not say anything about 'Mr. Kaplow has tried offering higher wages'. This relates to an older HN article - "Employers will do almost anything to hire workers, except pay them more" \- [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17506044](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17506044)

<comment><USER3> Well, there's one example of higher wages in the article:

> Tamra Kennedy, who owns nine Taco John's franchises in the Midwest, started > offering $100 as a bonus to new employees who reached 100 hours. She has > started offering merit increases twice a year, and she pays all employees > more than the minimum wage.

<comment><USER4> 100 dollars bonus is risible. That's not even 15 hours of federal minimum wage. Does the landowner not realize that when she goes on the record in the NY Times?

<comment><USER5> > 100 dollars bonus is risible

I don't know of any teenager who would laugh at getting an extra $100.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I find it funny how businesses always complain about not getting the workers. If it's the other way around they're happy to pay bottom rate wages. So in this case they just have to spend 15 or $20 or whatever it takes to get employees.

If they can't pay that then that's the market regulating itself away from too many fast food restaurants.

$10.93/h is still a pittance if you want to live anywhere near Manhattan.

Supply and demand. It's that simple. And businesses always whine around when it's not working in their favor. Suck it, close your Subway if it's not profitable to pay market wages.

<comment><USER7> It feels like if a person can't find a job they are to blame, if a company can't find people the "market" is to blame.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> So they talked about Lower Manhattan and Northern California. This is at least partially a housing problem. Nobody who works in fast food can afford to live anywhere near those places.

If you're a teenager and you're living near those areas, your parents are probably rich enough that they would prefer you to spend more time studying or doing extracurriculars to pad your college applications rather than getting a part time job.

<comment><USER9> Or the parents assist in finding nicer jobs.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> I feel like this might as well have been titled "Where has all the cheap, legal labor gone?"

The answer is probably as simple as they aren't offering enough pay or benefits to attract employees. This is probably an indicator that the average employee is finally getting a little more power in the Employee/Employer relationship, at least in the areas where this is true.

I would love for workers to be able to confidently expect to be able to leave a job that is mistreating them and get a new job right away. As for now, it's relatively common to be asked to work off the clock, not get paid for overtime, or work in conditions that are awful as a low-wage worker.

<comment><USER11> I don't think the average employee is getting more power. I think it's going the opposite way

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> "Mr. Kaplow has tried everything he can think of to find workers, placing Craigslist ads, asking other franchisees for referrals, seeking to hire people from Subways that have closed."

Everything except paying more.

<comment><USER13> I had the same thought. But they do write that "Fast-food wages began rising in 2014, and have increased faster than overall wages since."

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Less young people getting exploited as cheap labor? Seems like a win to me!

<comment><USER15> I dunno...does anyone really believe that the job they had in high school was going to be the start of a lifelong career? For most of us, having a job at that age was more about learning to cope with real life. Learning to work with others, maybe dealing with customers, and allocating whatever wages you earned are all important life lessons that are best learned while you have the support structure of living at home rather than later when it can mean the difference between rent and homelessness.

<comment><USER13> But that's fine: today's young adults can't afford their own homes anyway, so their first job after HS/University still have that support structure.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> If it costs $2,000 to replace an employee, and the award incentive to stay on is $100. Then I would say the employee is getting screwed out of $1,900.

(If the military can get contractors to run a fast food joint in a war-zone then I imagine that an employer can get employees to work in NYC.)

</comment><comment><USER17> Listened to a podcast on similar topic, Planet Money [1]. Journalists were exploring why students don't want to take on Summer Jobs anymore. I was listening to it and it was weird for me to listen why it is such a mystery. Commodities are getting cheaper every year, and meaningful things, like college education, housing prices are skyrocketing. What the point to of getting summer job if only thing you can get with earned money is an extra drink in a club. I'm not saying that this is always the case, but from my experience, this is reason why people around me didn't take summer jobs.

[1] [https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/06/21/622312015/teen...](https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/06/21/622312015/teenage- employment-wasteland)

P.S. I'm not a student for a long time. I teach some kids how to code and talked with them on this topic.

</comment><comment><USER18> Inability to find workers seems to be a very common issue we have here in Utah. There are way too many >$15/hr opportunities that don't require experience or credentials. It's a miracle to keep competent employees at anything less than that. You can also afford to buy a house here for around $15 per hour.

</comment><comment><USER19> It is going to be interesting in the next few years. We are starting to see a lot more push back about wages.

</comment><comment><USER20> I wonder if the underlying problem is that owners are irrational, and the reason they are irrational is because franchising selects for irrational people with capital to invest. I'm thinking that even if owners on average lose money, the company selling franchises can be successful, and as long as there is a supply of such owners, the industry keeps on keeping on.

</comment><comment><USER21> > Since 2010, fast-food jobs have grown nearly twice as fast as employment > over all (sic), contributing to the economic recovery.

That seems like a dubious claim, we're talking about low-paying part-time jobs with no benefits in a volatile industry.

</comment><comment><USER22> "an industry where cheap labor is an essential component in providing inexpensive food"

Guess people have better things to do than to feed late stage capitalism.

<comment><USER23> Every general labor problem like this can be solved by offering more money until an equilibrium is reached.

If that costs too much to be profitable, the business has an unworkable model.

<comment><USER24> Unless they have venture capitalists to subsidize them....

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Why is the knee-jerk response to industry labor shortages always to pay more?

It's stated in the article that it's been tried. One biz owner stated there was a $100 bonus in it for anyone who manages to rack up a hundred hours. I don't know how you were as a teenager but when I was a teen $100 wasn't living it large, but it was definitely motivating. Plenty say they offer above- industry wages, so obviously that won't fix the problem by itself.

I believe what's being asked for is an order of magnitude adjustment, and that would significantly change the economics of the industry. I'll hazard a guess and say that nobody's going to really like the quick-service restaurants that manage to turn a profit in this brave new world.

Then again, I've never seen a Chick-Fil-A understaffed. I'd love to see that become the new normal. _Demolition Man_ got it wrong.

<comment><USER21> If $100 for 100 hours is supposed to be motivating, maybe the business owner should start out by raising the hourly rate by $1.

<comment><USER25> What makes you think they didn't? The article clearly said they tried. Why does everyone assume it wasn't tried?

<comment><USER20> A $1/hr raise seems like strictly more than $100 for the first 100 hours. It doesn't make sense that someone would try something and then when it failed, offer less.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


A Brief History of Lisp Machines (2008) - <AUTHOR> http://www.andromeda.com/people/ddyer/lisp/ <comment><USER2> I was around the AI Lab at the time (working for the EECS department sysop'ing their undergrad Lisp Machines and DEC-20), and the dream was to incarnate Lisp in hardware and surpass the slow, multi-user PDP-10's/DEC-20's in use at the time. Plus, the sheer temptation of running Lisp "all the way down" (well, not in microcode, though that was written in a Lispy assembler) was just too great to resist. Plus it was early in the workstation era (Sun, Apollo, etc) and people were hooked on the idea of personal graphics-based workstations.

Within a few years, though, desktop machines running optimized Lisp compilers were surpassing the raw performance of the Lisp Machines, though of course there was nothing like the whole system (Genera).

In the end, "worse is better", plus "AI winter" happened, which put the Symbolics/LMI/TI LispMs out of business.

But something real was lost--I don't think the world has ever seen a more powerful development environment.

One step forward, and four steps back...

<comment><USER3> There's no _technical_ reason a Lisp processor couldn't have followed the same development path as workstation/PC processors and kept up, but it didn't have the volume to sustain the development effort.

<comment><USER2> Well, being a very CISC-y architecture means they couldn't have kept up with Intel, who spent/d billions on their line.

<comment><USER4> The last CPU that was being developed at Symbolics is actually RISC: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolics#Sunstone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolics#Sunstone)

The competitor LMI was also developing their next-generation Lisp machine RISC processor: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_Machines#GigaMos_Systems](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_Machines#GigaMos_Systems)

More about the latter: [http://fare.tunes.org/tmp/emergent/kmachine.htm](http://fare.tunes.org/tmp/emergent/kmachine.htm)

<comment><USER5> Well, Symbolics did not manufacture the new CPU. That would have been too costly.

LMI manufactured prototypes of their CPU, but these were older technology - not microprocessors, but VME-board sized CPUs.

Xerox mantioned that they were developing a Lisp RISC, but it never surfaced. The SPUR project designed a Lisp RISC Chip: ftp://ftp.cs.wisc.edu/markhill/Papers/jsscc89_vlsi_spur.pdf

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I still fantasize about having lisp "all the way down", but I'm not sure what I mean or ought to mean when I am fantasizing. On the one hand, I mean implementing lisp in hardware as fundamentally as possible (don't really know why this would be valuable, but I'm still drawn to it). On the other hand, I mean having lisp be the foundation at the software level (ie., the kernel and the rest of the OS; I can more easily see how this would be valuable).

Can someone here speak to the notion of a lisp machine in the future? Is there any chance this could happen? Would it be valuable? Does anybody else here have this same dream/fantasy/whatever-you-want-to-call-it?

(edited slightly for wording and clarity)

<comment><USER7> Ever since I found out about Lisp machines I've been a bit obsessed with them. When I got the leaked distribution of Symbolics Genera going in Linux I felt like I was in possession of a crashed UFO. The user experience of the Listener, with its rich output (almost a "scrolling desktop") was exactly what I wanted from a command line. As I imagined what that system would be like if development had continued I started getting so many ideas, it was thrilling.

And at that time I hardly knew Lisp! What excited me was the user experience of the Listener, the notion of programming being a way to use the computer, not just to construct software - and the way each piece of software in the system was practically an API for my own use. This was sci-fi stuff to me, extremely inspiring.

I don't know how we could move towards the creation of modern Lisp machines. Disappointingly for this old Amiga user, we don't really have regular computers that aren't ugly old x86 any more. But I think about trying to work these ideas into my software development all the time. Genera had such an impact on me I can't avoid it.

<comment><USER8> >the notion of programming being a way to use the computer, not just to construct software - and the way each piece of software in the system was practically an API for my own use.

I've never used a Lisp machine, but based on your description, it sounds like the experience of using them might have been somewhat like using the Oberon system created by Niklaus Wirth- or the other way around (based on a BYTE magazine article [1] about Oberon that I read, IIRC - never used Oberon either).

[1] I thought so because this part of your comment:

>the way each piece of software in the system was practically an API for my own use

matched somewhat with something I read in that BYTE article, which was something to the effect that once you had written a subroutine in Oberon, it could be called from anywhere in the OS. IOW, in a sense, the whole OS was like a single program, that you could program. Cool concept.

Though the Oberon system might have been much less evolved, or whatever - as I said, used neither, just interested in the thing.

P.S. From the Wikipedia article about Wirth:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niklaus_Wirth#Humor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niklaus_Wirth#Humor)

[ Wirth has reportedly told the joke that, because Europeans pronounce his name properly, while Americans pronounce it as "nickel's worth", he is _called by name_ in Europe and _called by value_ in America. ]

<comment><USER9> I had access to the Native Oberon version during the 90's.

Oberon was inspired by Mesa/Cedar, there are quite a few Xerox papers about how Mesa/Cedar used to work. This is probably the most relevant one.

Think about a Lisp/Smalltalk environment, but based on a strong typed language instead.

Regarding Oberon, it had similar ideas.

Basically there were no programs, only modules (strong typed dynamic libraries).

Any procedure/function that had a special type signature could be called from the CLI environment, UI action, or after selecting an UI element, depending on the way the mouse buttons were used.

Also the environment was focused on graphics not plain text.

The last version before Active Oberon was introduced, System 3 with Gadgets, had quite nice Amiga style GUI.

You can find tons of screenshots on my site.

<comment><USER8> >Basically there were no programs, only modules (strong typed dynamic libraries). >Any procedure/function that had a special type signature could be called from the CLI environment, UI action, or after selecting an UI element, depending on the way the mouse buttons were used. >Also the environment was focused on graphics not plain text.

Pretty cool. Thanks for mentioning it.

>You can find tons of screenshots on my site.

I googled for your HN username + " site"; is it this one:

[http://www.progtools.org/blog.php](http://www.progtools.org/blog.php) ?

<comment><USER9> Yup

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Most of the links on this page are broken so here are the archived versions (thanks Internet Archive!):

The CONS protoype (AI Memo 444):

[https://web.archive.org/web/20060211063312/http://home.comca...](https://web.archive.org/web/20060211063312/http://home.comcast.net:80/%7Eprunesquallor/memo444.htm)

The CADR (AI Memo 528):

[https://web.archive.org/web/20050411174516/http://home.comca...](https://web.archive.org/web/20050411174516/http://home.comcast.net/~prunesquallor/memo528.htm)

The Symbolics lisp machine museum:

[https://web.archive.org/web/20000605210626/http://kogs- www.i...](https://web.archive.org/web/20000605210626/http://kogs- www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de:80/~moeller/symbolics-info/symbolics.html)

After-the-demise symbolics info:

[https://web.archive.org/web/20060101010104/http://www.abstra...](https://web.archive.org/web/20060101010104/http://www.abstractscience.freeserve.co.uk:80/symbolics/)

P. Tucker Withington's contemporary thoughts:

[https://web.archive.org/web/20040810204319/http://www2.theci...](https://web.archive.org/web/20040810204319/http://www2.thecia.net:80/users/ptw/LispM.html)

Lisp family tree:

[https://web.archive.org/web/20060202000304/http://community....](https://web.archive.org/web/20060202000304/http://community.computerhistory.org:80/scc/projects/LISP/)

<comment><USER5> [http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/LISP](http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/LISP)

[https://www.ifis.uni-luebeck.de/~moeller/symbolics- info/symb...](https://www.ifis.uni-luebeck.de/~moeller/symbolics- info/symbolics.html)

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> About a year ago or so I was bitten by the Lisp and Smalltalk bugs, and since then I've become very interested in Lisp machines, particularly Symbolics machines running the Genera operating system. I'm in my late 20's and thus I wasn't around when Lisp machines were in their heyday; however, I believe that it's sad how the proverbial baby (Lisp OSes such as Genera) was thrown out with the bathwater (Lisp machines) when Lisp machines were gradually replaced with Unix workstations in the late 1980s and early 1990s. It would have been nice had Genera or another Lisp OS been ported to the x86 instead of Lisp users having to switch to Unix. Sometimes I even dream of an alternative history where RMS embarked on a GNU-licensed Lisp operating system instead of GNU.

I wonder what type of legal challenges are inherent in making Genera open source? My limited understanding of the situation is that the IP of Symbolics is held up in an odd manner due to the dissolution of the company, but I don't know all of the details. It would be nice if Genera were open source and ported to the x86-64. Barring that, a free software clone of Genera would be nice, but it may be a substantial implementation effort.

<comment><USER4> John C. Mallery owns the IP of Symbolics right now, as far as I know. Someone mentioned that he had plans to open source it, but it was a long time ago.

<comment><USER12> With my limited (or next to none) knowledge of software copyrights, I am wondering how come the IP of a company ends up belonging to a single person. Is that the case?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I programmed almost all of those machines at one point, both Interlisp flavor (dandelion -- wrote custom microcode for it), dolphin, Dorado; MIT CADR, Symbolics CADR, TI (LMI) CADR, various 36XXs (had two 3650s in my office at one point, used them both), but moved on before the ivory Mac plug in came along. It was a nice spur on the computing road, but ultimately not worth it. The tagging ideals still survive, e.g. in the RISC-V.

Sadly though the philosophy that everything should be programmable has mostly been lost, though partially revived in the browser. But only partially.

<comment><USER3> > The tagging ideals still survive, e.g. in the RISC-V.

I'm not sure what you are thinking of, but there's no such thing in RISC-V. Possibly you are referring the the goals of lowRISC, which will be RISC-V based but have various extensions.

<comment><USER13> Yes, that is what I was thinking of.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I own a quadra Mac ivory (I did just partially want to gloat). Genera is definitely worth the hype. The "present as" system in clim is amazing. Another thing is the cool app icon that is a combination of the famous cons cell but with cdr pointing to an Apple icon! I will hopefully be making some more videos of it shortly. One thing I discovered alread is there was a genera HyperCard API - Imagine the world we could have had!

I did ask the fellow from genera about disaster recovery (failed or borked hdd) and he said as I am a license holder he can send me cds or send the hdd and have him image it. The full source for genera is part of the image so tons of interactive docs and source to explore!

</comment><comment><USER15> When people find out I design Smalltalk computers, they often say something like "oh! You probably don't know this, but in the 1980s some people tried to build a computer to run Lisp and it failed completely". My reply is that every computer except two (PC clones and the IBM 360) from back then failed completely. So it doesn't make sense to claim being language specific was the cause of its demise.

<comment><USER16> Where can we get one?

<comment><USER15> Do you mean where you can get a Smalltalk computer? I still haven't finished though I have been working on it for a long time. But I am getting pretty close so it should be possible to get one in a few months.

Pictures of my previous efforts: [http://www.smalltalk.org.br/fotos/](http://www.smalltalk.org.br/fotos/) (with 68000 and ARM processor) [http://merlintec.com/swiki/hardware/28.html](http://merlintec.com/swiki/hardware/28.html) (with my own processor starting in 1999)

<comment><USER16> Yes, a Smalltalk computer. Very nice. Are you working with SiliconSqueak? I can never tell what the status of that project is. I would definitely pick one up / build one.

<comment><USER15> Yes, SiliconSqueak is what I have been working on since 2009. It is actually based on an idea I had in 2004 but I didn't work on because I couldn't get the Squeak community interested. The latest description is from early 2015 and is missing a lot of stuff:

[http://www.merlintec.com/download/jecel_phd_deposited.pdf](http://www.merlintec.com/download/jecel_phd_deposited.pdf)

Currently I am replacing the ALU Matrix coprocessor described there with an alternative that is more generally useful. I will move the text somewhere public (github, for example) so people can always access the lasted version.

Back to the original topic, it is interesting to discuss what good would a Lisp Machine (or Smalltalk computer) be in 2017? Would it run the language faster than a x86 processor? Lisp Machines tried to be the best possible interpreter, but we now have advanced adaptive compilation technology. A very parallel Lisp could be really fast in a dedicated architecture (see GPUs and similar) but most people are interested in normal, sequential Lisp. In that case it might still have a niche if it could perform as well (or nearly as well) but with far fewer transistors (lower power and lower cost).

In short: a 2017 Lisp Machine should either go beyond the current Von Neumann model or it should do what you can do with Lisp on normal machines but cheaper and with less energy.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> A reference from the late 80s, "Principles of Artificial Intelligence and Expert Systems Development" 1 Jan 1988, David W. Rolston

[https://images-na.ssl-images- amazon.com/images/I/51rCBcebCBL...](https://images-na.ssl-images- amazon.com/images/I/51rCBcebCBL._SX334_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)

</comment><comment><USER18> The page hasn't been updated since 2008 and is full of broken links.</comment>


Cloudflare has a plan to never censor again - <AUTHOR> https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/cloudflares-ceo-has-a-plan-to-never-censor-hate-speech-again/ <comment><USER2> I appreciate what he's saying, but of course the proof is in the pudding. I hope that Cloudflare sticks to that course the next time the pitchforks come out.

It's pretty crazy too how Cloudflare came almost out of nowhere to now have power over, what 15% of all internet traffic? One hopes that events like this push development towards better resiliency and more decentralization separate from third party players like Cloudflare.

</comment><comment><USER3> Are they going to apologize and offer service again to Daily Stormer?

Otherwise, this just looks like a PR piece without any substance.

EDIT: It looks like CloudFlare is being sued for copyright infringement. [https://torrentfreak.com/cloudflare-fails-to-limit-scope- of-...](https://torrentfreak.com/cloudflare-fails-to-limit-scope-of-piracy- lawsuit-170610/) They would like to try to hide behind "we don't do censorship." However, that whole Daily Stormer affair showed that they do. So they are trying to disavow that decision.

<comment><USER4> It's the sole reason they're suddenly changing their stance. Legally it'll destroy their business the more they actively censor. They'll get buried rapidly under that vast responsibility.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> IMO, this is the critical issue for internet freedom, not so much the Net Neutrality change. How can we say we're for free speech for all content providers when we excuse shutting down a disagreeable site because of a virtual lynch mob?

They say it's Nazis today, but I see the arguments they use to excuse this action, and how easily they can be applied to any number of other sources in the future. We need to be better than Nazis, not just stronger than them. If we don't care about being better than them, then we risk not being stronger than them for long.

</comment><comment><USER6> > The problem was that other Cloudflare customers started calling and > threatening to cancel their service if Cloudflare didn't cut the Daily > Stormer off.

This is not the excuse they used back in August. Back then, the CEO said "The Daily Stormer site was bragging on their bulletin boards about how Cloudflare was one of them and that is the opposite of everything we believe. That was the tipping point for me."

</comment><comment><USER7> Cloudflare has a plan to never censor again - until one of their customers says something their CEO doesn't like. Just lol.

</comment><comment><USER8> > Prince is working to cultivate a social consensus that infrastructure > providers like Cloudflare should not be in the censorship business—no matter > how offensive its customers' content might be.

Good luck. I agree that they should be neutral, but I still wouldn't want to give my money to a company shields neo-nazis.

<comment><USER9> That's not really agreeing to be neutral

<comment><USER8> The term I used wasn't really the point.

<comment><USER9> I'm missing the point then, I thought it was half of your statement. Could you explain it further?</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Somebody help me - I want to be "Analytical" - <AUTHOR> Hi HN community,
Quick question - I want to be more analytical - that is, want to be very sharp with numbers - perhaps like a McKinsey consultant or a Goldman Sachs banker. Can someone direct me on a step-by-step process to climb the number ladder. I am willing to start at the bottom (foundational level) and take it from there. Idea is to be mathematically fluent enough to run a start-up - where every decision is pulled out from a SQL query off a database. "SQL > Raw Data > Excel > Insights > Decision"
Thanks in advance,
-Anita
P.S. Please add me on hangout or email me directly if you can help - email: firstname.lastname@example.com <comment><USER2> I suggest a shortcut:

"SQL > Transform Data > Insights > Decision"

I don't think you need Excel, you can do whatever you need in SQL: pivots, medians, averages, aggregates and transformations of all kinds. In terms of speed and flexibility, you should be able to shame all those "Excel experts". After all, that Excel data probably came from a database to begin with.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you for replying. That's great to know. But I don't know SQL, as yet. Can you help me with steps to learn and master SQL to your suggestion.

<comment><USER2> Start with where you work, find out what brand of database your company uses: PostgreSQL, Oracle, SQL Server, MySQL etc. If this is not your current situation, then you are on your own. There are more than enough free resources online to get you moving in the right direction, motivation not included.</comment></comment></comment>


Crabgrass: Communication tools for grass-roots organizing - <AUTHOR> https://we.riseup.net/crabgrass/about#crabgrass-web-application <comment><AUTHOR> Code is here: [https://0xacab.org/riseuplabs/crabgrass](https://0xacab.org/riseuplabs/crabgrass) (readme is quite lackluster)

Live instance can be found here: [https://we.riseup.net/](https://we.riseup.net/)</comment>


T-Mobile plaintext password data breach thought to be imminent - <AUTHOR> https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/8aem4n/tmobile_plaintext_password_data_breach_thought_to/ <comment><USER2> Great job by T-Mobile allowing a social media rep to make claims about their security. No doubt they'll be grateful for the free pen-testing that followed.

Just now I see tweets on my feed in which people claim to have found XSS vulnerabilities[0], so I don't doubt they're doing security wrong. How big is their GDPR fine going to be I wonder?

[0]: [https://twitter.com/fabricio_giglio/status/98236273592413798...](https://twitter.com/fabricio_giglio/status/982362735924137984)</comment>


Romanians are Smart or How to Change the Google Autocomplete Suggestions - <AUTHOR> http://www.seomoz.org/blog/romanians-are-smart-or-how-to-change-the-google-autocomplete-suggestions?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+seomoz+%28SEOmoz+Daily+Blog%29

<comment><USER2> The moment this campaign started, I felt it was unnatural. Just drive through the center of Bucharest once, and you'll see just how smart Romanians are. I'm not one of those that feel like that they don't belong to this country, but we still have a long way to go.

Funny thing is that even romanian searches would yield 'Romanians are rude' and similar suggestions. Cause we are, just like other nations around us from the former communist countries. After aprox. 50 years of living under constant pressure that what's yours will be taken away, now everyone sees everyone as a potential threat. It's our/their blood. And it'll take a while until things will change. They're changing, but I'm not sure campaign like these will make a big difference.

<comment><USER3> The problem with Romanians (imo) is low self esteem and negative self image. Like you said, after many years of psychological abuse it's hardly any surprise. If they could only see their potential ... unfortunately, most times you have to be unplugged from negativity to see the positives.

<comment><USER4> > The problem with Romanians (imo) is low self esteem and negative self image

Hmm interesting. I always thought them to be smart and persistent, rather than having "low self esteem". Romanian programmers are one of the best out there. But they also create some of the worst viruses as well. Maybe years of being bullied and managed by everyone creates a distrust of any laws or authority. But I still don't see the negative self image thing though...

<comment><USER3> My comment was about the population in general. They focus on the negatives (perceived poverty, perceived lack of culture, perceived mediocrity, etc) while ignoring the positives. Similar to how an above-average looking girl beats herself down because her nose is not perfect, or something else trivial, while ignoring and downplaying anything nice or even extraordinary she may have. Programmers, working usually in a global market, are more aware of their standing, and hence have a better self image.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> My favourite was when it used to complete "chinese people are" with "aliens." extremely odd.

I also enjoyed it recently when the top result for "define an english person" was the wikipedia article "cunt." That one smacked of deliberate organisation.

Anyway, aren't the search autocomplete suggestions based on the distribution of n-grams in google's index, as much as in the search terms?

<comment> jim-greer > I also enjoyed it recently when the top result for "define an english > person" was the wikipedia article "cunt." That one smacked of deliberate > organisation.

The funny thing about some of these is that they become victims of their own success - the bomb doesn't work now because all the results are for blogs, reddit, etc talking about the bomb.

> Anyway, aren't the search autocomplete suggestions based on the distribution > of n-grams in google's index, as much as in the search terms?

My wife would know for sure, but I believe it is more based on search volume. When you type "hacker news" you get:

hacker news search

hacker news mobile

hacker news api

Pretty clear that it's getting those from search volume, not n-grams.

<comment><USER6> I regularly do a Google search for "Ofcom MCA maps", a rather specialist subject that takes you to the following page that's impossible to find on the website itself: [http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/radiolicensing/mcamaps/MCAs.h...](http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/radiolicensing/mcamaps/MCAs.htm)

When I first searched on this, Google didn't suggest it at all, and the page itself was half-way down page 1. Now, it's up there at the top (even when logged-out). I can't imagine very many people search this term--so I can only assume my regular searches have pushed it into the search engine's consciousness.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I tried with a bunch of nationalities and every one returns equally negative results for "[Nationality] are". I don't know why people get so upset about stereotypes. I bet almost every one is stupid/lazy/ugly by the opinion of random strangers in the world.

<comment><USER8> In order to understand why romanians take this so seriously, you need to understand the context. Romania is widely regarded by the western Europe as backward, poor and corrupt. On top of this, Romania has the largest Roma minority in the region ~500.000 according to wikipedia.org/wiki/Roma_(Romani_subgroup). The average westerner can't distinguish a romanian from a roma/romani/gipsy although they are quite distinct. In the last 20 years there were several waves of romanian immigrants hitting the western europe, including the Roma minority which are highly nomadic by tradition and very visible in the west because they beg and steal aggressively and live in slums in very primitive conditions. This lead to the association romanians = gipsies, thiefs, primitives etc. The current campaign is a response to these stereotypes, which unfortunately are easily promoted in western europe especially since western massmedia can't pick on blacks and arabs anymore cause that's clearly racist and open racism is not trendy anymore.

<comment><USER9> I'd say that in my experience, the Roma don't beg and steal particularly worse than any other marginalised or impoverished group. There may be a culture of theft among some of the poorer groups, but that is hardly unique, a culture of theft is extremely common in a lot of widely varied communities around the world, from energy companies to impoverished slums.

<comment><USER10> My experience contradicts with yours.

First of all I'm not trying to paint all gypsies with the same brush. I actually know a couple that are very educated, very honest and very hard- working human beings. But within all the "Roma" minorities, there are sub- groups and not all of them are created equal.

In general in Romania there are many gypsies that are definitely not marginalized and impoverished.

Some of their culture is also part of ours (e.g. many people like their music), their children go to the same schools as Romanians, some of their words became a part of our language, interracial marriages are not at all uncommon (up to the point that for some people their origin is not at all visible) and they also receive lots of subsidies from the government ... they definitely are NOT marginalized. If anything, some sub-groups of this minority are marginalizing themselves.

Also, there are many gypsies that are filthy rich. Come down here sometimes and I'll show you entire villages of villas (i.e. big and luxurious country residences) that are inhabited by gypsies. Those villas come paired with luxury cars too. And some of them still steal, still beg for money on our streets or in other countries, some of them still live in tents in their own backyard.

<comment><USER9> My experience is it varies site by site, family by family and individual by individual. Stereotypyes can fit cultures but they become fairly destructive (and sometimes even self-fulfilling) when you start applying them to individuals or treating them as rules.

I know quite a few travellers, roma and irish gypsies and the one thing I do know is all three groups are tight and fairly insular, especially from each other. And like any tight groups they are very good at reflecting the attitudes they percieve to be directed towards them.

For the record, I am not from any of these groups and have had relatively few problems with them, when compared to other groups I have interacted with. Drunk anglo-saxon football fans, for instance.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> The problem with this is that, unlike traditional Googlebombing which relies on lots of links to a certain page, "Romanians are smart" will quickly drop off the search suggestions as soon as this campaign loses popularity. Gaming search suggestions requires constant upkeep effort.

<comment><USER12> Is this really a problem though? It would seem "Romanians are ___" is a rare search term as it is--the negative terms are likely old and low-frequency, especially in comparison to this recent surge in positive queries.

<comment><USER11> This specific instance might not be, but search suggestions could become as problematic as search results. Try "Rick Santorum is ____".

<comment><USER13> That's if you're competing in your own niche. What if you wanted to _positively_ influence the search results that came up for your company? "igul222 i buy so much in a year that i want a discount" "igul222 write testimonial" "igul222 frequent buyer program" "igul222 secret promotion"

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> For what it's worth, "romano" means Roman in Spanish. As in, an inhabitant of the city of Rome, both in the classical and modern senses. The proper Spanish term would have been "rumano". I guess the guys over at the Italian capital are happy about the free compliments

<comment><USER15> "People called Romanes, they go, the house?"

<comment><USER16> For those who don't get the reference: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIAdHEwiAy8>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Also interesting is that the campaign chose "Romanians are smart", when they could have used much more positive phrases like "Romanians are friendly". Typically being "smart" is a stereotype already well-covered by too many other ethnicities (primarily Asians).

</comment><comment><USER17> Obviously no "people" are smart or stupid or anything else. You can only generalize like this if you don't know many of them, and so such generalizations are always a mark of ignorance, never of true knowledge. This is not only true for human users, it seems also true for the current state of the net.

It should always be remembered that the internet doesn't encompass the entire world, far from it, it is still a playground for a very limited elite, with certain views and perceptions (just recall for example how many people around the world don't even have a bank account, they are many, but are seldom heard on the net). I've googled certain cultural terms from different societies, and at times couldn't find anything or could only find extremely limited information, because these themes were outside the scope of the usual demographics of internet users.

This of course is rapidly changing, with net use going the way of mobile phone use. And I guess a general adoption of the net will also mean English will lose its hegemonic place.

</comment><comment><USER18> I'm going to ask the dumb question that the article doesn't explain: why do people hate Romanians so much? I've never found Romanians awful people. Is this just more ethnocentric rubbish and typical hostility toward Eastern European immigration?

<comment><USER19> In the UK at least, they get a bad press.thanks to the criminal element who find lucrative pickings in Britain.Go to a popular newspaper such as the Daily Mail, search and count the negative stories and you'll soon have your explanation.

<comment><USER20> Please don't go the Daily Mail for anything more than an idea of what small minded scared bigots we English sometimes can be.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> First of all, as dgquintas pointed out, los romanos son (Spanish) is wrong, as this means Romans are. The correct term is Rumanos.

Secondly, google autosuggest is not necessarily smart... try writing "I hate it when".

Finally, I think prejudices against romanian people are based on the fact that an important part of romanian inmigration into european countries is composed by gipsy romanians, which sadly tend to beg for money, steal or perform other crimes (not all of them, of course, it is a generalization based on what people see and perceive themselves). But of course, only a small portion of romanian people are romanian gipsies...

<comment><USER22> "The stereotype that (group) is (bad) is completely incorrect! You see, only (subgroup) is (bad)."

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> One thing I'll say about Romanians is that I noticed they distrust each other, or they are just not friendly towards each other. For example I've noticed how the immigrant community acts and while other communities opt to stay together, mingle and be friendly with each others, Romanians abroad don't give a hoot about other Romanians, they are willing to integrate into the local culture as fast as possible and forget about other Romanians.

<comment><USER23> As a Romanian myself, yes you are mostly right. But another thing to notice is that most of the Romanians that leave the country aren't well... the cream of the society so to speak :).

<comment><USER24> That's not an accurate view, brain drain is a real problem for Romania. While the phenomenon of Romanian manual labourers crowding Spain and Italy is well known, and oh so stereotyped by local media, there's a lot of emigration of highly trained (or soon to be highly trained) engineers and researchers to Western Europe and the US. But these people tend to be cosmopolitan and blend in extremely well, so they don't raise awareness of Romanians among foreigners.

And precisely this is the second focus of the campaign: raising awareness that there are a lot of emigrated high-achieving Romanians, quietly blending in.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> This campaign doesn't change the reason why peoples are searching for bad things about Romanians. It's just fixing a symptom but not the source of the problem.

<comment><USER26> Yes and no - I'll often note what Autocomplete prompts when I'm doing a search. Negative autocompletes may impact my perception of something when doing a related search (say, "Romanian holidays" and at "Romanian" autocomplete throws up some of the negative terms in the OP).

So it lessens the spread of those negative terms. As you point out, of course, it doesn't change the (far more important) source issue of people believing those stereotypes before going into Google.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> It is interesting that none talk about this being spam, the "suggestion box spam". Would spamming the web with "romanians are smart" actually change something? Isn't this the actual non-working method that spammers use? Instead of building good "content", they just pretend to...

<comment><USER24> This is supposed to correct a perception problem. Of course Romanians are not perfect, but we're working on that :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> I had no idea Romanian looked so much like Latin, at least for that trivial "Romanii sunt" clause.

<comment><USER29> Romanian is a latinate/romantic language, like Italian, French, Spanish, or Portuguese... but for some reason it never gets listed with the others.

Relevant linguistic map: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Romance_20c_en.png>

<comment><USER30> cause people have been exposed to spanish, portuguese, french and italian all their life and noticed the similarity, while few heard spoken romansh, romanian or ladino. Romania (and moldavia) were behind the iron courtain until yesterday.

Also, as an italian, while i find it possible to understand written romanian, it's much harder to understand it spoken, as the slavic pronounciation is very different.

<comment><USER31> On the other hand, Romanians often find it very easy to understand Italian, more so than most other latin languages. I know I do, I can watch Roberto Benigni films and mostly understand everything, without ever specifically learning italian (but Italian/English subtitles do help).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> [Ukrainians a] gives a few negatives. But, weirdly,

[ukrainians are] autosuggests [iranians are] in the first few positions with ukrainians down the list.

I didn't submit feedback.

</comment><comment><USER33> Typing "google is" brought up "google is evil", "google is watching you" and "google is racist" ... among "google is awesome" and "google Israel".

</comment><comment><USER34> I was born in Moldova. When searching for "Moldovans are" I get...biggest drinkers. Maybe I should start a similar campaign...</comment>


Fedora 31 Released - <AUTHOR> https://fedoramagazine.org/announcing-fedora-31/ <comment><USER2> So if Python 2 is officially out, does that mean Calibre won't run on Fedora 31? Or will it pull in Python 2 as a dependency if necessary?

Kind of a moot point for me, I switched to the flatpak once it became available. I'm just curious.</comment>


Let's Build a New Borough - <AUTHOR> http://www.theawl.com/2015/08/lets-build-a-borough

<comment><USER2> Well, I'm not a New Yorker, and I don't know if I ever will be, but I'm a big fan of national projects. Bridges, high-speed rail, moon/mars projects, artificial islands!

Yeah, it makes some people a lot of money, but it also makes a lot of jobs and maintains the idea that America is a country of people who build great things. I'd gladly see some money diverted into these sorts of projects.</comment>


Scientists discover that our brain waves can be sent by electrical fields - <AUTHOR> http://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-discover-new-method-of-brain-wave-transmission-electrical-fields <comment><USER2> This is a pretty cool new finding, and I'm pretty sure that it represents a new mechanism for neuromodulation, which is a Big Deal. I bet that this research still needs to be reproduced by third parties.</comment>


Update on Firefox Send and Firefox Notes - <AUTHOR> https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2020/09/17/update-on-firefox-send-and-firefox-notes/ <comment><USER2> Sad! Developer of `ffsend` here.

I've built `ffsend` as CLI tool for Send to securely share files from the command line. It has been a great success! Thanks Mozilla, for building and providing this amazing service!

For the interested: [https://github.com/timvisee/ffsend](https://github.com/timvisee/ffsend)

I'm currently hosting a public Send instance myself to ffsend keep working. Let's see how long I can keep this going (and funded).

<comment><USER3> Your tool is very useful for me. Have used it since a long time.

First transfer.sh and now Firefox Send are closed. What service should I trust to send file quickly and securely.

<comment><USER4> I've honestly fallen back to HTTP/SFTP.

I just rent a VPS, temporarily host the file on there, and give whoever it is a link.

Edit: If my threat model were to include protecting the contents of the file from the VPS provider I would probably encrypt it client side with GPG or something similar.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Looks like Mozilla is becoming VPN company shifting it's previous focus which was on browserware.

Mozilla VPN seems to be just rebranded resell of Mullavad VPN with Mozilla Goodies.

Mozilla Monitor seems to use [https://haveibeenpwned.com/](https://haveibeenpwned.com/) (also as seen in Firefox desktop)

Mozilla Firefox Private Network looks like another Cloudflare Warp's rebrand (with litte good additions maybe?) seeing that it uses Cloudflare .

Mozilla Firefox is also losing it's usershare and Management division may force in future to ditch Gecko and adopt Webkit/Blink in the hope that it could bring more userbase (just my thought) to lessen maintainance and focus on revenue.

If it brings revenue for them doing this,then it is absolutely good for them , but we are slowly loosing the Original Mozilla as Company based on Philosophy.

<comment><USER6> >and Management division may force in future to ditch Gecko and adopt Webkit/Blink in the hope that it could bring more userbase (just my thought) to lessen maintainance and focus on revenue.

They laid off most people working on Servo, so the adoption of WebKit/Blink seems rather likely.

<comment><USER7> Servo was never actually the heir-apparent to Gecko.

<comment><USER8> You sure? [https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2013/04/03/mozilla-and- samsung...](https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2013/04/03/mozilla-and-samsung- collaborate-on-next-generation-web-browser-engine/)

> Servo is an attempt to rebuild the Web browser from the ground up on modern > hardware, rethinking old assumptions along the way.

<comment><USER9> 1) That was written in 2013

2) It was an attempt to rebuild a browser _engine_ up from the ground up on modern hardware - and large parts of that work landed in Firefox.

I've tracked their progress for quite some time. There was never a concrete plan to replace the DOM handling components of Gecko with the DOM handling components of Servo.

<comment><USER10> It was written in 2013... when Servo was announced. Servo was originally intended to replace Gecko. Anything else is a retcon.

Saying "large parts of that work landed in Firefox" is misleading. A browser engine is a huge thing, and most of Servo is _not_ in Firefox. If you just want to replace a few parts, creating an entirely new engine from scratch is far from the most efficient way.

Why does this matter? Well, because decisions have consequences. Way back in 2013, they were feeling pressure from Chrome, and decided the best way to compete was to rewrite the browser engine (in a brand new language to boot). The original engine stagnated, and here we are 7 years later. What a colossal failure.

<comment><USER9> > It was written in 2013... when Servo was announced. Servo was originally > intended to replace Gecko. Anything else is a retcon.

Here is a quote from the Servo wiki from 2014, which is the earliest snapshot present in the WaybackMachine archives.

>Servo is explicitly not aiming to create a full Web browser (except for demonstration and experimentation purposes). Rather it is focused on creating a solid, embeddable engine. Although Servo is a research project, it is designed to be "productizable"—the code that we write should be of high enough quality that it could eventually be shipped to users.

[https://web.archive.org/web/20140718030420/https://github.co...](https://web.archive.org/web/20140718030420/https://github.com/mozilla/servo/wiki/Design)

The words "Firefox" or "Gecko" do not appear a single time in the blog post you cited originally. This is because there were no plans to replace Gecko with Servo at that point in time. They did plan for that _possibility_ , and it was probably a minor goal, but the primary goal was research, as they stated in both the blog post and the wiki entry. They were hoping that they _could_ replace parts of Gecko, I'm sure, but it was never a given.

<comment><USER10> Thanks for taking the time to reply!

In your quote, they didn't want to create a full _browser_ , but they did want to create a full _engine_. And it was designed to be "productizable." I think it supports what I'm saying.

Servo was the last big plan from Mozilla to turn things around. Since then, we've just gotten Pocket, random bundled add-ons, etc. It seems like they are mostly just content to slide into irrelevance. And I am very sad about that. I do honestly wish Servo had succeeded, although I thought it was pretty obvious it wasn't going to.

Also, while I'm airing grievances, I think it's very likely that having a few big chunks of Firefox/Gecko be written in Rust is going to be a maintenance burden that will slow down development even more. Now that Mozilla has laid off the Rust and Servo people, what are they going to do?

<comment><USER9> >Here's the thing though: What this Servo dev thought of as "production ready" and what the Gecko team thinks is "production ready" are very different things. In Gecko-land, it's not enough to do best-practice things like continuous integration, regression tests, error handling, etc. For Gecko, it's also about compatibility -- both with 25+ years of web content (much of it malformed) and a wide range of supported combinations of operating systems and hardware.

>If you're working on Servo, you can be much more strict about what hardware combinations you support and what kind of content renders well. Look, there's a reason that the lineage of all widespread web engines go back 20+ years: it's much easier to incrementally improve that engine while ensuring that you're not breaking anything than it is to start over from scratch.

>I would also like to point out that you don't have to take my word for it: It has taken at least 3 years (probably closer to 4 years) to get WebRender ported over to Gecko from Servo and get it running well enough to the point that we can start saying that it will likely reach 100% deployment within months instead of years.

>My point is that, while Servo was great for demonstrating new ideas and producing eye-popping demos, it was not going to replace Gecko anytime soon, regardless of what those few Servo developers thought. In all the time I've worked at Mozilla, I have never once heard anybody in charge of Firefox say that we were going to do a wholesale swap out of Gecko with Servo.

[https://web.archive.org/web/20200815135321/https://tildes.ne...](https://web.archive.org/web/20200815135321/https://tildes.net/~tech/ra8/i_am_a_mozilla_employee_amaa#comment-5gxm)

<comment><USER10> Thanks for that link!

We might be arguing past each other. He says this:

> Unfortunately a narrative kind of built up around all this stuff that Gecko > developers were a bunch of bumbling idiots who were just maintaining a bunch > of outdated bloatware, while the Servo project was where all the action was.

This is precisely my complaint. Firefox really did need some sort of strong direction to save it, and Servo was all they came up with. I don't think it was just a few self-important Servo devs, I think (at least part of) management was in on it too. In fact, the blog post above was signed by Brendan Eich, which I find really disappointing (I thought he, at least, was smarter than that...).

Anyway, once Servo sucked all the other oxygen out of the room, Firefox was really doomed. Now Servo is dead and we have... a few incremental improvements to Gecko to show for it. I definitely feel bad for the guys working on Gecko the whole time. That said, they could've came up with some "response" to Servo, but they didn't.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Calling a service that launched only 17 months ago "legacy functionality" is troubling. Why should I engage with any new Mozilla product or service if they're going to cut it off at the knees after a year?

<comment><USER12> And this is why we all should have shouted louder when Google set this precedent five years ago. This is going to become the status quo.

If Google can do it why can't we?

<comment><USER13> It's absolutely amazing how some people can find new ways to blame Google for something they had nothing to do with. Just Incredible. Additionally, if it had not been for the money given to Mozilla by Google the development of Firefox would have severely been in decline and possibly abandoned.

>And this is why we all should have shouted louder when Google set this precedent five years ago.

Do you also shout loud when Microsoft set a precedent for shutting down products and services? Of course you don't. You just confine your rage to Google. Let's have a look at all of the products and services Microsoft has cancelled:

[https://pastebin.com/PMQwd8Q0](https://pastebin.com/PMQwd8Q0)

Let that sink in next time you do a drive by on a Google related topic and post one of those lame "I wonder when it will be cancelled" worthless posts.

<comment><USER14> Microsoft is the anti-example. They discontinue something and then support it for years. Sometimes way longer than they should.

<comment><USER12> I took it to include the EEE era, probably because the question doesn't track unless you do.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Hm, been spending a while creating a 'Firefox Send' copy, attempting to host files. Check out a new verison at:

\- [https://v2.femto.pw/](https://v2.femto.pw/)

Looking for some help if anyone can, :)

\- [https://github.com/femto-apps/web-file-uploader](https://github.com/femto- apps/web-file-uploader)

The old copy ([https://femto.pw/](https://femto.pw/)) has been used over 100 million times and sent over 13PB of data!

<comment><USER16> Check out this project as well: [https://github.com/kern/filepizza](https://github.com/kern/filepizza)

<comment><USER17> Last time I looked, FilePizza failed on large files, seemingly because it wanted to pull them entirely into RAM. Has that changed?

<comment><USER16> I don't believe so. It's definitely still got some stability issues.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Why not create a Firefox+ subscription service (for like $10 per month) and then make Send, Notes, VPN, and more exclusive to that service?

Some people over here are dying to start paying for Firefox.

(Mozilla donations go to the much smaller non-profit part of Mozilla and are unrelated to Firefox.)

<comment><USER19> Mozilla's deal with Google is worth 500M per year. For Firefox to be independant of Google, you'd need around 4M people subscribing to Firefox, with your $10/mo suggestion.

Now, whether Firefox NEEDS 500M per year is a different matter, but the whole idea of 'some people want to pay for Firefox' seems rather naive as a suggestion for how Firefox can be viable without Google.

<comment><USER18> I didn't suggest that the subscription could replace the Google deal. I merely said, why not make the services paid instead of closing them.

<comment><USER19> Perhaps because of opportunity cost. Compared to how dependant on Google they are currently, maintaining a comparatively low-revenue service whose existance must be justified to a board, may be worse than doing the 'startup' thing of just pivoting _again_ and using those same developers to try and find something that _can_ sustain Firefox; something that can be a core offering and keep Firefox relevant in the market, rather than a small add-on subscription service.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Wrong title, Mozilla; title should have been "Firefox Send and Firefox Notes to be discontinued soon", or something like that.

Don't hide behind the fact. Tell the fact in the title.

<comment><USER21> It was "Mozilla gives up on …" before IIRC, the mods probably over-corrected the editorializing

<comment><USER21> Actually was "Mozilla give up Firefox send and Firefox notes"

[https://hackernewstitles.netlify.app/](https://hackernewstitles.netlify.app/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Why couldn't they make send work _and_ make money while [https://wetransfer.com/](https://wetransfer.com/) is flourishing?

<comment><USER23> I'll bet they got gunshy dealing with abuse and illegal uses of the service. A real shame as it's a no-brainer service to have in their software suite, and a great complement to the browser

<comment><USER24> True but I'm not sure if when I think about the various ways to send a file on my computer that my web browser really comes to mind.

Super neat service, makes total sense in Mozilla's portfolio but I don't see it as a natural part of the browser.

<comment><USER23> I feel like that might be true for a technical audience who may be more aware of alternative transfer avenues, but i think for regular users it's a frequent use case during the course of business, online learning, etc. especially with the rise of web apps

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Yea, for easy github forking! :) Firefox Send was such a great and simple tool for sharing those >10MB (anything that won't fit in an email) files with literally anyone.

Now that we'll be maintaining our own fork ([https://github.com/plyint/send](https://github.com/plyint/send)), if anyone has any thoughts on features or fixes you'd like added I'd love to hear from you. Just send us a message from our website ([https://plyint.com](https://plyint.com)), open a github issue or contact me through my HN profile. I can't promise will implement it, but we'll definitely give it a serious look.

<comment><USER26> The value of firefox send for me was that 1) it was hosted 2) it was free 3) I trusted mozilla

As a developer, I am already aware of similar open-source packages like magic- wormhole. The code/tools themselves don't solve the problem, though. I had my non-techincal mom exchange sensitive documents through Send but I'm never going to get her to use magic wormhole, and self-hosting is too much hassle for one-off documents.

I'm aware of dropbox etc but if my both me and my mom don't already use them, there's friction to create an account and pay.

I'm not sure whether there's a business model for a standalone hosted version if Mozilla themselves couldn't make it work (and I presume they gave it thorough thought)

<comment><USER27> I wouldn't presume they gave it thorough thought.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> Getting rid of Send is so disappointing. That was a hugely useful tool.

Why not add a Report button and start charging for the service?

<comment><USER29> The implicit problem is you have to know the download is sketchy in order to report abuse. For your average consumer, that will be after they downloaded it.

Having a consumer download a sketchy file from what should be a trusted service (it's firefox! they're the good guys!) is not good for your company image, either.

And unfortunately, charging for a service is no guarantee that these issues will go away. I have seen fraud links from many b2b services presumably caused by credential misuse. If you operate a file sharing service, please be sure that there is a way to report a file either on the download page or on the contact us page. I'm the guy with too much time on his hands and actually follows up on reported phish emails and I've seen many services with no reporting mechanisms. Also, give your customers their own subdomain so I can selectively allow them in the palo alto.

<comment><USER30> > Having a consumer download a sketchy file from what should be a trusted > service (it's firefox! they're the good guys!) is not good for your company > image, either.

I just don't understand this kind of logic. I can send mail bombs with the trusted postal service and people will open them. Does anyone blame the postal service?

<comment><USER31> > Does anyone blame the postal service?

Yes?

Do you think the USPS does nothing to detect bombs in the mail?

You can't earn trust by saying "that's not my problem."

<comment><USER30> Ok, fine, they scan for bombs. So people shift to mailing sealed anthrax envelopes (which has happened). A public service is also going to be used by criminals, yet we do not expect the service to be shut down.

<comment><USER31> > So people shift to mailing sealed anthrax envelopes (which has happened).

Which they also scan for?

The USPS does try to keep the mail safe, and generally does a good job.

Mozilla cannot make the same guarantees about Send so they shut it down.

<comment><USER30> Ok, I googled a bit. According to this[0] they're running PCR tests on samples from the air around the mail processing. I.e. _outside_ the mail. In a sufficiently sealed package/enveloped that wouldn't be detected.

Well, and with encryption the files going through mozilla are always properly sealed and they can only rely on external indicators such as reports or IP blacklists. So they're doing no worse than USPS.

[https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news- perspective/2003/06/postal-s...](https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news- perspective/2003/06/postal-service-test-anthrax-detection-systems-14-sites)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> Charging a nominal amount for send seems like it would solve the malware problem and help their finances...

<comment><USER33> A Freemium model seems like the way to go for Mozilla. Is there any reason it wouldn't work that I'm not seeing?

<comment><USER19> Firefox gets 500M/year from Google (whether they _need_ that much is a different question). You'd need basically the entire current Firefox userbase to pay some amount monthly, or have a smaller subset donate massive amounts, to enable Firefox to operate independantly from Google. That seems wildly unrealistic to me.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> Another disappointment from Mozilla. Some of the tools that were kinda of unique from a browser and company that values privacy. I actually thought one of the strategies from Mozilla was to actually build an ecosystem around the browser to bring new users and to have something unique to fight chrome. It seems they have lost completely all focus have no strategy after killing the Servo and Rust Team. What is next killing the Gecko Team and use Blink ?

<comment><USER35> Unfortunately, that seems like exactly the direction things are heading. What is the point developing arguably the single most complex type of application when not even an entity with the resources of Microsoft can't make the numbers work?

A few months months ago I would have argued that there were clear non-monetary motivations behind Mozilla and Firefox. I don't think that is as true today.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> That's progress. I just want the browser, not a "cloud service".

Now to lose "Pocket" and bring back a bookmarks toolbar that lets you find things locally.

<comment><USER24> Everyone in tech circles keeps saying this, and I agree, but until Mozilla finds a killer app Firefox's only value is as an ad for Google Search.

Which is honestly super depressing so I will applaud any attempt they make at an actual sustainable income stream.

<comment><USER37> There are so many service that Mozilla could charge money for that tons of people would use because we are paying someone for those service already so it might as well be Mozilla because they are trustworthy and open source. Stuff like file hosting, photo hosting/sharing, password management, blog/site hosting, etc etc. I just don't understand how Mozilla can be this bad at monetization while sitting on top of a gold mine in terms of reputation, developers and organization.

<comment><USER27> I completely agree about this, but arguments about how we should be more like a public utility and less like a vc funded startup fall on deaf ears in management. I just don't get it. Providing essential services in a trustworthy way is just too boring, I guess.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> I'm crushed to see Firefox Send go away. It was an amazing tool.

In the "This is why we can't have nice things category" it's sad to see yet another encrypted file-sharing service that is inevitably shut down when someone starts abusing it to host malware or child porn.

<comment><USER39> It's the one service of the new wave of Mozilla products I actually liked.

Well, maybe lockwise might be ok, but I already have a password manager.

<comment><USER40> I use Lockwise since I'd been using Firefox Password manager for years. I keep my important passwords (Financial, etc) in Keepass, but for the myriad websites I use that require logins, Lockwise is a great solution. I'm also very impressed by it's iOS integration.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> I used Firefox Send for deliverables on a commission. It was so _easy_. I could send updated versions and set a date for the download to expire to make sure both sides were on the current version. That was worth money. They could have charged for it.

<comment><USER27> Yes. Yes, we should have charged money for it.

Sigh.

<comment><USER42> Do you still work for Mozilla?

I see you worked on Send, and am surprised that you'd comment on here in such fashion about the decision-making to not charge for Send.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> You can always send files using the WebTorrent protocol, over at [https://instant.io](https://instant.io)

No file size limit.

<comment><USER44> encrypted and private?

<comment><USER45> Sort of; the underlying WebRTC protocol WebTorrent uses encrypts the data in transit, and the data never hits the server.

Downside is that the sender, or someone else who has completed the torrent download, must keep the page (or their WebTorrent client) running for the share link to work.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> Hate to say it, given that I've been using Firefox as my browser since before it was called Firefox, but I think Mozilla is done if they can't find a way to monetize these services. There's just a complete of leadership. I hope there's a non-Mozilla fork of Firefox that keeps it going. A big challenge I know but Google gets all your data once Firefox is dead.

<comment><USER47> We have Edge from a major vendor, and it's good. We also have Vivaldi which has the features I want but is from a much smaller vendor but is also very good.

A couple of good options.

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> Send was the only reliable tool I'd found to date. I'm really disappointed by this. Hopefully, they'll have better luck finding a profitable product.

</comment><comment><USER49> they were using s3 for file storage. This was likely just burning incredible amount of cash and had absolutely no monetization angle in play.

<comment><USER27> We had the monetization angle in place from before Send shipped. Charge a small monthly fee. Management didn't care.

<comment><USER49> What was the angle they were after then...people will use it so much and love it that they will use FF?

Was there any angle at play other than releasing it? It was a great feature and even a small fee would've been more viable than freemium only.

<comment><USER27> No, it was just fumbled through three generations of management changes.

<comment><USER50> It's a shame to hear that. Send was a very good product that saw adoption in my circle, especially among creatives. It was used to share files with clients and replaced WeTransfer for some. I believe a monetization strategy among those lines could have been successful.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> And in nearly the same breath they announce a net nanny service to help people maintain their YouTube recommendations bubbles.

I like Firefox, but I worry about the direction the Mozilla Foundation are taking. At least it's Free Software.

<comment><USER52> Keep in mind the YouTube work is from the foundation, and Send and Firefox are from the corporation.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> I've been bookmarking point-to-point file transfer tools. These are not file hosting services like Firefox Send; both endpoints must be online at the same time. Nevertheless, I suspect they might be useful to some other folks here. Please post corrections or more detail on any of these if you have it. I haven't had time to try most of them yet.

WebWormhole: WebRTC encryption, direct data transfer, large file support, browser and command line. Looks more versatile than the others. Has not undergone security review yet.

[https://github.com/saljam/webwormhole](https://github.com/saljam/webwormhole)

[https://webwormhole.io/](https://webwormhole.io/)

Magic Wormhole: Data relay required (public relay is often slow), mainly command line.

[https://github.com/warner/magic-wormhole](https://github.com/warner/magic- wormhole)

[https://magic-wormhole.readthedocs.io/](https://magic- wormhole.readthedocs.io/)

croc: End-to-end encryption, data relay required (I think), command line only.

[https://github.com/schollz/croc](https://github.com/schollz/croc)

[https://schollz.com/blog/croc6/](https://schollz.com/blog/croc6/)

File Pizza: WebTorrent, seems to load entire file into RAM, browser only.

[https://github.com/kern/filepizza](https://github.com/kern/filepizza)

[https://file.pizza/](https://file.pizza/)

Snapdrop: WebRTC encryption, local sharing only (I think), browser only.

[https://github.com/RobinLinus/snapdrop](https://github.com/RobinLinus/snapdrop)

[https://snapdrop.net/](https://snapdrop.net/)

</comment><comment><USER53> While sad to see Notes go, I've been pretty impressed with the continued support of the free Simplenote [https://simplenote.com](https://simplenote.com) from Automattic. It's basic but nice, and I've actually gotten help from them the few times I've had issues.

<comment><USER54> Be sure to backup those notes. Heard some horrorstories back in the day about unrecoverable notes. simplenote is nearly integrated in nvalt.

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> I'm glad Mozilla are focusing more on their core product (Firefox the web browser) instead of trying to compete in overcrowded markets like file transfer (WeTransfer, MEGA, Google Drive, Dropbox, ...) and notes (Notion, Workflowy, Google Drive, Microsoft OneNote, ...).

<comment><USER56> The announcement doesn't mention the browser but does mention focusing on Firefox VPN, Firefox Monitor and Firefox Private Network.

<comment><USER57> Yes. Quite an omission. :-/

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER58> Seems pretty clear by now that Mozilla is on a path to just slowly transform Firefox into Chrome or try to abandon it 'to the community' like they did with Thunderbird. Either way they've clearly signalled that they could not give a shit about Firefox any more.

Since Edge is basically Chrome with Microsoft's telemetry baked in that means that your browser choices will either be the one made directly by an ad company or Chrome repackaged by some other company that just wants to pipe the browser telemetry back into their already egregious OS telemetry pipeline.

It is definitely time for a fork or a fresh start with actual privacy, security and simplicity in mind.

</comment><comment><USER44> I suggest we all write to Firefox and suggest charging $1/month for Send.

<comment><USER27> Yes, please do this. This was the proposal from the engineers behind it (I had a small part) all along.

</comment></comment><comment><USER59> Services relevant to data sharing are going to be abused. This should have been expected. On the other hand Notes is being deprecated because isn't used much? It can be handy as an extension.

</comment><comment><USER60> If you want a minimal setup that does similar job with all encryption done in browser and absolute no plaintext, password send back to server, i just wrote [https://www.relaysecret.com](https://www.relaysecret.com) earlier this week. It is opensource, with minimal footprint on aws (1lambda, 1 gateway, 1 s3), deploy using terraform and should be very cheap to run. It's a pet project so i limit the filesize to 30mb but you can change that easily if you roll your own. :)

<comment><USER54> Looks nice!

</comment></comment><comment><USER61> I've build cryo for end-to-end encrypted p2p file transfers without cloud or signal server components.

Imho all solutions which require a webserver somewhere are doomed to fail at some point, or as in this case can be discontinued.

P2P tools should be client only with no servers at all to survive time and provide independency. Tools on their own don't matter either, but protocols like BitTorrent do.

[https://cryonet.io](https://cryonet.io)

</comment><comment><USER44> I LOVED Firefox Send. This saddens me...stupid malware abusers

</comment><comment><USER62> I've started using [https://transfer.sh/](https://transfer.sh/) as a replacement

<comment><USER63> > As of October 30th 2020, Storj Labs will discontinue support for the > transfer.sh service.

Popup on the website

<comment><USER62> [https://github.com/dutchcoders/transfer.sh/](https://github.com/dutchcoders/transfer.sh/) fork and works just as fine

<comment><USER64> It's very confusing. The README there says:

> This project repository has no relation with the service at > [https://transfer.sh](https://transfer.sh) that's managed by > [https://storj.io](https://storj.io). So far we cannot address any issue > related to the service at [https://transfer.sh](https://transfer.sh).

But the popup on transfer.sh suggests emailing email@example.com.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER65> This is inevitable. Mozilla should focus on their browser tech and monetization, instead of creating competing services to other consumer focused startups.

Listen to the developers and implement API. Firefox web API implementation is so far behind from Chrome. It is saddening.

Sell and bring values to developers. They are your most likely customers, not the general public.

<comment><USER66> Weird that they mentioned three products this helps them focus on, and Firefox wasn't one of them... I'm afraid that internally, they've already given up on Firefox.

</comment></comment><comment> harrier-lcc There are some good alternatives out there like [https://encl.io/](https://encl.io/) , pretty much a faster Firefox Send alternative for sending 1GB files for 7 days

</comment><comment><USER67> At GoSecret.io you can use our upload feature (similar to Firefox Send). We haven't open sourced our code but we definitely are considering it in wake of Firefox Send getting shutdown. Please ping me if you're interested

</comment><comment><USER68> I worked on blackhole.run as a more advanced version, but it is sad to see such a cool and secure service shuts down; there is a need to have more secure tools, not less. Thanks to the Mozilla team for a great job.

</comment><comment><USER69> As a Firefox notes user, baiting me in with an "Update" title is cruel.

</comment><comment><USER70> Oh man, send was great. I think I would have paid to use the service just fine.

</comment><comment> m-p-3 Sad to see Firefox Send being discontinued, it was a great service.. In wondering if they'll keep updating the source code and simply stop hosting an instance? Because I wouldn't mind hosting my own.

</comment><comment><USER16> Damn, I didn't know they already taken Send offline. I don't use it much, but it's great in a pinch for just getting a file to a stranger quickly and without much fuss. I'll have to explore the alternatives.

</comment><comment><USER71> Darn, Firefox Send was excellent. end-to-end encryption, user-friendly, backed by a reputable privacy-focused company.. Anyone know a decent alternative?

</comment><comment><USER72> [https://send.tresorit.com](https://send.tresorit.com)

</comment><comment><USER73> SendGB.com is good way for file transferring up to 20GB. No needed registration or verification.

</comment><comment><USER74> They are dropping things I might actually pay for to focus on products I never will...

</comment><comment><USER75> 118 comments at this point, at least 5 complaining about Mozilla management. Hmmm

</comment><comment> the-dude ~ $500M funding a year.

</comment><comment><USER76> man that sucks I loved send. I generally used magic-wormhole with people who were comfortable setting it up but as far as ease of use went send was great.

</comment><comment><USER77> Still true: [https://xkcd.com/949/](https://xkcd.com/949/)

</comment><comment><USER78> Now do Pocket integration! :D

</comment><comment><USER79> >Unfortunately, some abusive users were beginning to use Send to ship malware and conduct spear phishing attacks.

Isn't it absurdly incompetent of them not to foresee this?

<comment><USER27> Yes. The engineers that worked on it foresaw it, but for some reason management didn't care.

</comment></comment><comment><USER80> That's good.</comment>


The Sex Profile: iOS app to log motion and encourage condom use (in Sweden) - <AUTHOR> http://vimeo.com/32788295

<comment><AUTHOR> The QR code in the ad points to this address, which appears to be the main site: <http://kondom08.nu>

(<http://kondom08.nu/app> is the actual code, but it is a broken link)

Anyone have any more information about this campaign?</comment>