Happy Hues – Curated colors in context - <AUTHOR> https://www.happyhues.co/ <comment><USER2> I love the approach, however, the palettes all seem to be in the same style. A bit more diversity would be cool.

Any other sites HN could recommend for picking colors? I suck at that.

Colourlovers is a classic I know about, but iirc it is complicated with copyright. [https://www.colourlovers.com/](https://www.colourlovers.com/)

<comment><USER3> What do you mean by same style? Like alternating backgrounds and such?

I used Webflow CMS to build it, so I was a little bit limited in the amount of colors I could use unless I wanted to upgrade to the business plan lol.

<comment><USER2> I don't know how to describe it, sorry. Like as if they are all printed on recycling paper, perhaps? They have a touch of grayness? Or perhaps it is "all pastels", as the other comment said? Sorry I am not artist enough to be able to describe it.

<comment><USER3> Ah gotcha. Yeah there is definitely a lot of pastel palettes on there. I guess that's what I lean towards. I'll try to add more, non pastel palettes soon :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> This is incredibly useful for anyone designing a new site from scratch. I think it's quite useful for reimagining the colors of your existing site, too, with one caveat. I'd love to be able to enter some of my own colors - and have your tool suggest a color palette.

Not the easiest feature to add, but would be exceptionally useful. Either way, I love what you do, mackenziechild and have followed your work for years.

You have inspired me over and over to improve DarwinMail [1]. Some of your small design tips have vastly improved the UI of DarwinMail. Thank you so much for all your tutorials, tweets and general design inspiration.

PS: I also love that you were a designer first, and decided to learn how to code too. It's so useful to learn in that order. No wonder your projects are always so brilliant.

[1] [https://www.darwinmail.app](https://www.darwinmail.app)

<comment><USER5> > I'd love to be able to enter some of my own colors - and have your tool > suggest a color palette.

Not sure whether that's possible with this site, since it was built without code.

<comment><USER3> It probably _could_ be, but I'd probably have to build (or hire someone to build) some sort of external app / database to manage all that.

A simpler solution I thought about what recreating the layout in Figma or Sketch, then someone could create their own palette simply by tweaking color swatches (and have it auto update on the mockup).

<comment><USER5> It might be easier to get someone to build you a bookmarklet that uses JS and puts an input on the page.

Do the tools you're using (webflow) not let you put any custom JavaScript on the page?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I really like the idea. If you are promoting stuff like this though, please please please check to see whether your color schemes meets WCAG contrast guidelines. I took a look at one randomly in the firefox developer edition accessibility tab and there were a large number of contracts flags.

<comment><USER7> It's a great idea, but soperj is correct. It's a good idea to make sure that things like contrast ratio and colorblind hues are taken into account.

Possibly have notes on certain palettes, indicating their accessibility score.

Thanks!

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> While I really love the colors and instructive nature of this product, I really dislike the dark oriented color sections. That is to say, I dislike how in a dark mode, it still has large sections of white backgrounds.

If I'm in a dark room, using dark mode and expecting lower light levels, a sudden white backdrop is blinding.

Perhaps these dark themes are intended purely for design, not how best to design a dark mode.. but I'd really appreciate more design around the dark mode.

Honestly, large color changes bother me quite a bit in our software these days. I remember I always hated Slack's light mode because it was a right pane full of white - very bright, and the left pane was a dark mode contact/channel list, very dark. Why? It has always been very distracting to me, and I don't get why people think dark and light modes are so easily mixed.

Perhaps I'm an odd egg. I dunno. I definitely know nothing about style. All I know is I view the brightness of applications to be the foundation and competing brightness bothers me greatly.

</comment><comment><USER9> I forgot my glasses in the hurry to work today, so I might be more susceptible to this than usual, but some of the contrasts are very low. For instance palette 14 the yellow links on white, or palette 10 the yellow links on green, are both impossible to read. Update: Contrast 1.02 according to devtools in firefox.

Other than that I like the palettes.

<comment><USER10> Concur - some of the contrasts would need to be improved for the palettes to be accessible. I found this particularly true with dark backgrounds and light hyperlink text.

Great effort on the site though - was fun to look through to look at some options.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> The design of this website is beautiful. I just wish it didn't reload after each palette change. Also, a toggle for the animations would be nice. They get a bit annoying after a bit.

<comment><USER3> Ahh, thanks for the feedback! I can definitely tone down the animations... Or maybe remove them for everything but the homepage.

I did the reload / separate pages because 1) to make my life easier building it lol and 2) so you could send links to specific palettes.

<comment><USER12> >so you could send links to specific palettes

Check out the pushState/replaceState/popstate API to update the URI without reloading the page, while still sending users with the link directly to that colour scheme.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> It is awesome seeing colours in context. I've so frequently rejigged the palette whilst building the website, so this would stop doing that.

I'd love to be able to pick my own colours and to see how they look, instead of being bound by the pre-set ones... better yet being able to pick a 'starter' colour then having it create a complementary palette and seeing how that appears.

<comment><USER14> May I recommend [http://paletton.com](http://paletton.com) You can start with your base color and introduce variations above the colour wheel.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> I like this idea. Especially as a dev who does a lot of front end work but has little sense of design.

I've seen a lot of color generators but I start to apply them and quickly realized having a grab bag of colors that look good together does not mean I have any clue where to use each one... and the result looks just as bad as one with the wrong colors.

</comment><comment><USER16> Hi Mackenzie, interesting site. I spotted some typos: "This sections hues" -> "This section's hues", "adobe" -> "Adobe", "your designs colors" -> "your design's colors".

</comment><comment><USER17> Great! Love a new set of colors and was just looking for some the other day. There are some other similar websites, but glad there's more! More colors the better.

I've decided on some websites to entirely ditch this color scheme palette and just go with a full-on gradient: [https://sdan.io/](https://sdan.io/) since I couldn't find good schemes at the time.

</comment><comment><USER18> Good idea and well executed, it shows you have some skills and deeper knowledge with colors than most people, and informs, so people are likely to read and learn.

using firedox here, the bottom 5 palettes on the left side are blank, but when you click them, they do work to change the colors..

Your photo, the black and white profile, shows you with a great expression, but I wonder about the clothing too much. I immediately start wondering what the material of the coat(?) is.. thoughts run through, it almost seems like a fur coat and that you have nothing on under it. As I look closer I notice there is a Tshirt under that just blends with the black and white, so the nude effect is likely unintentional.

Then I go back to the coat and keep wondering what this outfit is. Maybe it's more common in SV / Portland etc, but where I'm at it looks very unusual. Perhaps the whole picture looks more common, it's just the shoulders of the item that are perplexing.

Not saying this is bad, just offering a glimpse into what some other peeps may be wondering.

Your black and white photo

</comment><comment><USER19> I'd love to see it become standard practice to use a system like this to define a set of SASS variables that could then be composed in other rules rather than either hard coding the colors in each rule or using utility classes (e.g. ".blue").

You could probably do the same thing with text styles by defining variables for things like headline font, body font, monospaced font, etc.

<comment><USER20> You mean like [https://www.w3.org/TR/REC- html40/types.html#h-6.5](https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#h-6.5) ?

<comment><USER19> The difference that I would see is that most designers probably don't want to be restricted to just the colors that are defined in the spec and it would be useful to have the colors associated with their purpose (e.g. text color, background color) so that they could be changed without having to change them throughout the various rules.

<comment><USER20> Yes, sorry, I was being flippant.

Giving names to colours in a universal spec like HTML5 would be asking for trouble. You'd be on a never-ending treadmill of new colours. Constants (however that's done, e.g. SASS variables) is clearly the way to go.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Cool site.

I notice it says that "A tint is created when you add white to a hue. .... you can create a tint by lowering the saturation value of your hue."

This is true in most paint programs, but shouldn't be. Moving a pure color like red to white is also an increase in value (i.e. brightness). So if you reduce saturation to zero while leaving the value the same, you should get a shade of gray (and it should be a darker shade if starting with purple/blue, as compared to say yellow)

I guess the way it tends to be done is so any combination of hue, saturation and value result in a valid color, but according to traditional color models such as Munsell, that shouldn't be true. (which is why the Munsell color solid is like a distorted sphere, rather than a cube) [https://munsell.com/about- munsell-color/how-color-notation-w...](https://munsell.com/about-munsell- color/how-color-notation-works/munsell-color-space-and-solid/)

</comment><comment><USER22> The timing is great - I am redecorating my home dashboard with new colors.

One of the major struggles I have is with the dark mode - is there a methodology to assign "dark" colors based on the existing "light" ones? Or should I do the design twice, one for the light and one for the dark mode version?

<comment><USER23> > is there a methodology to assign "dark" colors based on the existing "light" > ones? Or should I do the design twice, one for the light and one for the > dark mode version?

You can try inverting the colors used for the light theme to obtain a decent starting point for the dark theme design.

If you use SASS you can use `invert` for that, or `invert` from the CSS-in-JS library "polished"

For anyone curious how the inverse of a color is calculated, read this answer on StackExchange: [https://graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/a/95100](https://graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/a/95100)

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> Show HN is supposed to be for showing your own work

[https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html)

so you might have miscategorized this, m1guelpf.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm sorry for this, apparently I misread the HN rules. Is there any way I can edit it to remove the "Show HN" part?

<comment><USER24> Mods will do it for you when they wake from their slumbers.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> How about black and white, and use color sparingly to get attention?

To me, colors have to be justified to be used anywhere in graphic design. But, I am pretty sure this would be an unpopular opinion amongst designers since color is such an integral part of "the look" today - anywhere and everywhere.

I take a hard lined approach towards design: Follow Swiss/International style for layout, minimal typography, use borders to seperate content, show hierarchy through type size first, and if colors are needed for additional context - use them sparingly.

</comment><comment><USER26> The notorious Millennial Pink somewhat over-used here?

[https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/shortcuts/2017/mar/...](https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/shortcuts/2017/mar/22/millennial- pink-is-the-colour-of-now-but-what-exactly-is-it)

[https://www.shutterstock.com/blog/what-is-millennial- pink](https://www.shutterstock.com/blog/what-is-millennial-pink)

<comment><USER27> Interesting. That sort of pink was also Pantone's color of the year.[1] It's definitely a super popular color in contemporary design.

[1] [https://www.pantone.com/color-intelligence/color-of-the- year...](https://www.pantone.com/color-intelligence/color-of-the-year/color- of-the-year-2019)

<comment><USER28> Coral != 'millennial pink', the Pantone color of the year in 2016 was basically millennial pink though (it was actually two colors that year, the pink and a matching blue) I'm a big fan of soft pinks like that actually, but they are def overused

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Very neat idea! I like the different color palettes available. You can see how a slight change in a shade can have a lot of impact.

I think the experience could be vastly improved by using CSS Variables (Custom Properties): you can update all the colors with JS in a single click (even the colors embedded in SVGs). That way, the color swap would be instant (no page reload) but you could still provide a direct sharing URL by replacing the state of the URL in the address bar.

</comment><comment><USER30> I really like this. As a developer who sometimes has to design, I struggle choosing colors. I will definitely use this in my day to day. Thank you very much.

</comment><comment><USER31> Offtopic: after copying a value, an unrelated emoji is added to a status message. E.g.: "copied ;-)", "copied ;-*" or "copied :unicorn:".

It seems confusing to me and I don't like it. But I see how it could boost engagement.

I wonder how many more emojis we need to see until a "emoji-block" browser plugin becomes mainstream.

</comment><comment><USER32> These all remind me of Bugle Boy clothes from the late 80s and early 90s. I thought I was well gone of these color schemes!

</comment><comment><USER33> Great site! I love playing with colour combinations, but I don't have the colour sense to be able to put together palettes myself.

On the data side, I have often (mis)used colorbrewer [0] to play with colours and see what might work well in visualizations.

[0] [http://colorbrewer2.org](http://colorbrewer2.org)

</comment><comment><USER34> One note I find the heavy emphasis on the black lines in the design a bit distracting. The colors itself become a bit of a sidenote here.

Also I get seasick from the animation when changing colors, would be nice if just the colors were fading and the layout stays constant.

</comment><comment><USER35> There was another example many months ago of something like this which I really liked and I curse myself for not bookmarking it. My search attempts have failed. I love sites that give ideas in color relationships.

<comment><USER36> Did you try HN's own search?

[https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastYear&page=0&prefix=fal...](https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastYear&page=0&prefix=false&query=show%20hn%20color%20palette&sort=byPopularity&type=story)

<comment><USER37> I think its a 3rd party search. Just that the company was funded by HN. Anyways, it could be nice if there was a link in the UI that leads to this search.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> Neat. Possible bug: it took me a really long time to figure out what "Toggle section colors" does because the thing it's toggling is never visible when the toggle button is. :)

</comment><comment><USER39> Really impressive that you can build something like this with Webflow.

<comment><USER40> Actually I wonder if our end is near. Or maybe we become specialists in helping our clients with the Nocode solution they've chosen?

<comment><USER3> I think No-Code is great because it allows anyone to test out and launch their ideas.

I definitely don't think it's the end of developers though. Some of these no- code projects will grow to a point where they need more custom solutions where a developer will be needed.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> Hate to be a critic, but the transitions are distracting. Why can't I just read without things jumping out at me, from all sides. Its a little jarring.

</comment><comment><USER42> I have made this one [https://www.colorsandfonts.com](https://www.colorsandfonts.com)

</comment><comment><USER43> For AI generated color profiles see [http://colormind.io/](http://colormind.io/)

</comment><comment><USER44> These things are great for color/design-challenged folks like me, but I'd also love to see complimentary light-dark mode palettes.

</comment><comment><USER45> I will bookmark this, because I dont have an esthetic sense, and never know wich color to use in my projects.

End up doing everything in black and white.

<comment><USER46> I spent some time finding good colors for my terminal, I usually reuse that when I design some website / webapp. 99% of the time I use monospaced fonts and my interface ends up looking a lot like a CLI application, but since most of my work is oriented towards technical people, end users often tell me they dig the design.

<comment><USER45> Thats nice. This days I work mostly for banks, so the stylesheet is always the same, but for personal projects I endup having to be more criative.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> Cool site - bothers me though that "This sections hues" is missing an apostrophe...

Also, is this a clever ad for Webflow? If so, I'm not complaining...

useful ads >

</comment><comment><USER48> Love this idea! It's definitely something I would use more if I could create my own palettes or view popular palettes

</comment><comment><USER49> I love this. There are obviously lots of color palette tools out there, but this one shows you the colors applied to a theme.

Good job.

</comment><comment><USER50> Simple and nice. Some way to visualize what font color works best with the selected background would be a good add.

</comment><comment><USER20> All of these palates look very trendy 'contemporary big tech'. Something about the pastel colours. They go with the visual design.

But it seems very monocultural. I personally find them really distatesful (and isn't design about taste after all). Give me a nice saturated green any day.

<comment><USER51> > and isn't design about taste after all

As much as software design is about taste. So, depending on what your objective is, a lot or not at all but mostly somewhere in between.

Best practices, industry standards, the-right-tool-for-the-right-job-thinking, psychology, math, trends and, of course, personal feelings will all take part in the design decision making process.

<comment><USER20> It's true. What I'm getting at is there when you take that all into account, there are no absolute universals. There are many axes. So it can pay to accept some diversity.

To quote the site:

> ... by understanding the psychology of color, you can choose a color that > will resonate with your target audience and give off the vibe & emotion you > want.

Within this selection of palates there is no variance in this particular dimension of «pastel-ness». They all seem to lie on the same place on that axis. And that dimension is one thing that seems to unite a lot of contemporary deisgn.

Hence this feeling like another item of conformity with the monoculture.

It's not all that serious — just some colours. But interesting nonetheless. You don't often have the opportunity to talk about contemporary colour palates.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER52> Beautiful :)

You might want to try hosting the JS minified on your own server. As is, it gets blocked by uMatrix and uBlock Origin.

</comment><comment><USER53> Just spent far too long going through the color psychology charts. Well done!

<comment><USER3> Nice :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER54> Please don't mess with my back button

</comment><comment><USER55> the colors are indeed wonderful

</comment><comment><USER56> This is a joke site, right?

> Blue is a very calming color and can actually slow your metabolism (notice > how there's little to no food brands that use blue in their branding).

Best Foods / Hellman's, Kraft, Barilla, Spam, Nestle, Pilsbury, Ocean Spray, Oreo, Quaker ... if this is for real, they've evidently never been to a grocery store.

> Purple thinks it's better than all the other peasant colors.

I guess so.

<comment><USER3> Fast food is what I was referring to

You really don't see blue used in fast food branding, mostly red & yellow.

[https://logodix.com/logo/321649.png](https://logodix.com/logo/321649.png)</comment></comment>


Pseudo Constant Time Implementations of TLS Are Only Pseudo Secure - <AUTHOR> https://eprint.iacr.org/2018/747 <comment><AUTHOR> [https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/08/21/tls_developers_shou...](https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/08/21/tls_developers_should_ditch_pseudo_constant_time_crypto_processing/)</comment>


US has been exposed for funding last year's Hong Kong protests - <AUTHOR> https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3091438/us-has-been-exposed-funding-last-years-hong-kong-protests <comment><USER2> Bill & Melinda Gates and their foundation have been exposed for preventing millions of childhood deaths in Africa and elsewhere.

</comment><comment><USER3> This article is weak on details and claims the story is "Just the tip of the iceberg", seems fishy.

</comment><comment><USER3> This seems to have also shown up on in an oped on RussiaToday: [https://www.rt.com/op-ed/493763-hong-kong-us-funding/](https://www.rt.com/op- ed/493763-hong-kong-us-funding/)

</comment><comment><USER4> "About US$2 million was earmarked for the protest movement in Hong Kong, but has now been frozen as part of a general overhaul and restructuring by a new agency boss."

so the funding doesn't really give out?</comment>


Optaplanner: Red Hat's Business Resource Optimizer - <AUTHOR> http://www.optaplanner.org/

<comment><USER2> I was reminded of JBoss Drools Planner when seeing this; turns out they renamed it some time ago (~March 2013!?)

</comment><comment><USER3> Does anyone know of a similar library in Python?

<comment><USER4> Yeah I'd use the hell out of a python version of this.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Any recommended companies that can do security audits for startups? - <AUTHOR>

I'm wondering whether or not a professional security audit would be a good investment. While we're working hard to build a very secure system, I think an outside perspective could help us identify threats we hadn't considered. <comment><USER2> What sort of price are you looking to pay? I've written a lot of secure software in the past, and I may well be able to recommend a couple of firms who have done a similar job for me but I'm afraid they don't come terribly cheap.

<comment><AUTHOR> Honestly, I don't really know what kind of price is standard (or even the amount of time a audit would take). Can you give me a ballpark number?

Off the top of my head (which is likely to be way off), I was expecting something between $1000 - $3000

<comment><USER2> Oh, OK. The number I was looking for something close to had a couple more zeros on the end of it, I'm afraid. A decent code audit will take about a quarter of the time it took to write the code and its accompanying tests, and is an extremely specialised job. I'm not sure I can recommend anything in that sort of price range.

What is it you're actually wanting audited, and what is at stake if it turns out to be broken?

<comment><AUTHOR> I was imagining presenting our security model to someone (or a team), having them ask questions, and then do some analysis of our systems to make sure we've implemented the model correctly (and don't have other gaping holes). Although a full audit of the code would be much more complete and secure, I was looking for a slightly different risk/cost tradeoff.

<comment><USER2> Generally, this sort of thing isn't worthwhile unless the liabilities you're exposed to by being broken are in excess of about $10M. Anything less than that, and it's a job for a butch insurance policy.

If you're reasonably confident that you've got a decent security model, and you've coded it defensively you're probably OK. I wouldn't stress about it too much at this point.

<comment><AUTHOR> We're certainly under $10M in liability, we're confident in our model, and we're seeking less formal (but free) feedback from friends and peers on it, so I think you're right - we just won't stress about it too much right now.

Thanks a lot for the advice. I really appreciate it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Paging tptacek.</comment>


Ask HN: What would attract you to switch jobs for less pay? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> \- Shorter work week (i.e. the job would be part-time).

\- Projects that are both actually advanced technically and from field that interests me. Big bonus points if they are written in languages I already like or want (would want) to learn.

\- Team from which I can learn plenty of interesting things. Note that this would be very hard to achieve if the team has nobody with more than five years of professional experience.

\- Formal approval of me working in company time, in non-insignificant amount, on an open source project. The project may be, or probably even should be, proposed by the employer, but I should have the final decision on whether I want it or not.

Order of the above points is arbitrary.

</comment><comment><USER3> Nothing. Making money is the only reason why I work so I would never consider a job with a smaller paycheck.

</comment><comment><USER4> Positive career outlook in the future, work-life balance, better benefits that make up for it, etc.

</comment><comment> wu-ikkyu -More job flexibility (i.e. remote work options)

-A more desireable company mission</comment>


Why setting goals can backfire - <AUTHOR> http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/03/15/ready_aim____fail/?page=full <comment><USER2> This article made me realize that goal setting is really a specialized case of "beware of the metrics you set". Whatever you decide to measure is always what people focus on, so you need to be darn sure you're measuring the correct things or you end up with huge distortions in people's behavior.

<comment><USER3> This is something that Joel Spolsky has hammered on repeatedly, regarding employee motivation - [http://www.inc.com/magazine/20081001/how-hard-could-it- be-si...](http://www.inc.com/magazine/20081001/how-hard-could-it-be-sins-of- commissions.html)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Setting the goal was not the problem here: the problem was the way they chose to achieve that goal. Building better cars might, rather than doing everything to sell crappy ones, would have had a much better chance for success.

<comment><USER5> That's a matter of setting the right goal. Perhaps "make better cars" would have been appropriate goal, insetad of "make more money".

<comment><USER6> Making more money is an ok goal, though a bit too general for practical use.

The problem comes from a short-sighted approach to making more money _now_ at the expense of making money later, which is what GM did. If they'd decided to sell more cars by making better ones, it probably would have taken longer to get to that point, but they'd have been in a much better position to compete with the other car makers.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Is this not about setting the wrong goal, as against setting a goal itself?

<comment><USER8> Yeah, but that doesn't make nearly as interesting a headline. :-)

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> The paper referenced by the story, from business professors at Northwestern, UPenn, U of Arizona, and HBS, is titled "Goals Gone Wild". (Since both the Boston Globe and the submitter resisted the temptation to use that as the hed, I had to mention it.)

The abstract and full paper (PDF) are available at:

<http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/6114.html></comment>


Turntable.fm for Android "pretty soon" - <AUTHOR> http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/25/2974536/turntable-fm-co-founder-seth-goldstein-android-app-international

<comment><USER2> Or you could just use plug.dj that already works on newer android devices. And works internationally (unlike TT). And supports multiple playlists (unlike TT). And supports video (unlike TT). And has better avatars (unlike TT). And is translated into German, French, Spanish, Chinese, Japanese, Korean (unlike TT). And is showing a LIVE STREAM of the Sweetlife Music Festival Live (something TT can't do). <http://www.plug.dj/sweetlife-music-festival-live/>

Make the switch today!</comment>


App Store Video Preview Is a Gamechanger – See Why - <AUTHOR> http://blogs.voices.com/voxdaily/2014/09/apple_app_store_video_preview.html

<comment><USER2> cue "Android had it first" posts.

<comment><USER3> While no "Android had it first" post, I just find it interesting that they don't mention Android in their article at all. Google is their main competitor after all.

<comment><USER4> I'd posit that they are blissfully ignorant that it existed somewhere else first and did no further research.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: How Do You Survive? - <AUTHOR> I have a job that costs me upwards of 50 hours a week. I have a partner I love dearly. I have two kids who I cherish. I technically have 119 hours a week where I am 'awake'. I just want to know how you all make it fit. I know I have it pretty good because my job allows me to work two days at home 9am-3pm where I then pick up the kids from school but the rest of the work days I'm completely dedicated to work. I feel pretty roasted by the end of the week. <comment><USER2> _I have a job that costs me upwards of 50 hours a week._

 _I know I have it pretty good because my job allows me to work two days at home 9am-3pm where I then pick up the kids from school but the rest of the work days I 'm completely dedicated to work. I feel pretty roasted by the end of the week._

These statements are in conflict with one another.

If you're working a 50 hour work week, you should _strongly_ consider looking for a different job. There's plenty of research (and company testimonies) showing that human happiness, health _and_ productivity increases when work weeks are smaller (lazy link that I've submitted to Hacker News before on roughly this topic: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/19/work-less- get-...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/19/work-less-get-more-new- zealand-firms-four-day-week-an-unmitigated-success) ), and 50 hours isn't healthy at all.

Look out for yourself, talk it out with your employer (and) or, if they're uncooperative, immediately go job hunting.

<comment><AUTHOR> It's not required of me to do so and I'm happy doing it because of my investment in the work. I guess I just want it all - how do I get that please?

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Are you including commuting time?

Get hired help for mundane chores. Seriously. It's so worth it.

<comment><AUTHOR> Nice suggestion and something we have been looking into more and more.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> The reason why I put in more work is what's keeping me sane. Most times the stress that comes with the job can drive me to the edge of breaking down,but I just keep reminding myself why I even started.</comment>


Procedural content generation: L-Systems - <AUTHOR> http://blog.rabidgremlin.com/2014/12/09/procedural-content-generation-l-systems/ <comment><USER2> If this floats your boat then the inimitable Vi Hart has done a series of videos about space filling curves and related matters:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdyociU35u8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdyociU35u8)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsvLLKQCxeA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsvLLKQCxeA)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc8sWN_jNF4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc8sWN_jNF4)

<comment><AUTHOR> Nice!

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Be sure to check out shape grammars for non-organic procedural content generation; for example, the classic "Procedural Modeling of Buildings" from [http://peterwonka.net/Publications/publications.html](http://peterwonka.net/Publications/publications.html) (as well as many other great publications from that author).

</comment><comment><USER4> I took a class by P. Prusinkiewicz (Dr. P) at the University of Calgary as part of my graduate program more than a decade ago. Still remember it fondly and keep all my presentations and slides from the coursework.

Unfortunately I don't think I did very well as I was very headstrong and rewrote the C++-based L-system generator in Haskell. That didn't get me any extra points :)

</comment><comment><USER5> Relevant: L-Systems Considered Harmful

[http://nothings.org/gamedev/l_systems.html](http://nothings.org/gamedev/l_systems.html)

</comment><comment><USER6> And just because it's Christmas time:

[http://imgur.com/n9f2SnR](http://imgur.com/n9f2SnR)

(created as part of a course about simulation of ecological systems)

</comment><comment><USER7> Would be interested in a simple L-system Javascript example.

<comment><USER8> [http://davmlaw.github.io/ProceduralGraphics/lsystem4.html](http://davmlaw.github.io/ProceduralGraphics/lsystem4.html)</comment></comment>


Recommendations engine DirectedEdge opens up to developers - <AUTHOR> http://venturebeat.com/2010/01/06/recommendations-engine-directededge-opens-up-to-developers/

<comment><USER2> <http://developer.directededge.com/article/Main_Page>

</comment><comment><USER3> Really nice to seem directed edge is 'language agnostic' and has provided a lot of pre-cooked interfaces for their API. PHP, Ruby, Python and Java ready to go.

It wouldn't be a big deal for people competent enough to use the API in the first place to cook something up but it will definitely help speed up adoption and cut down on debugging time.

<comment><USER4> It is definitely a big deal to write scalable, fast and a good recommendation engine. Item level collaborative filtering is easy to write - but anything beyond that will require significant effort.

<comment><USER3> > It is definitely a big deal to write scalable, fast and a good > recommendation engine.

I know, I've invested $30K US in to a dutch company that does this for one special interest field. It took them quite a bit of time to get it working perfectly. One very big reason why I'm so impressed with Directed Edge. And why I think they'll make it big.

<comment><USER4> Yup, providing easy to use API for developers to do recommendations can be a breakthrough. But I believe DirectedEdge has a ton of sales job to do in terms of convincing developers to take it up. They would need case studies and whitepapers where they demonstrate how plugging in their engine increased revenues by X% and engagement by Y and what ROI can they expect.

Nothing sells like numbers!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Just for clarification, we've of course been open to developers in the past, what's new here is that we've created a free developer's plan:

<http://www.directededge.com/signup-developer.html>

And of course all of the stuff about Shopify integration, which we're really excited about:

[http://apps.shopify.com/shopify_applications/e7d74dd9b5d86c9...](http://apps.shopify.com/shopify_applications/e7d74dd9b5d86c9cd9478738abf621bb)

More on that here (which I just posted separately, since that's mostly a separate story):

[http://blog.directededge.com/2010/01/06/directed-edge- shopif...](http://blog.directededge.com/2010/01/06/directed-edge-shopify- easy/)

<comment><USER6> Really awesome stuff and I can't wait to start playing with it. Minor tiny bug report for that second link. Maybe it's just my Safari but where it says:

"Price $9.00 USD per month* Website Directed Edge ExpressRex"

\-- the link is broken, it starts with <http://> 3x before the domain name.

<comment><USER5> Grml, yeah, that's a Shopify bug that I already mentioned to them. Every time you edit the template it adds another <http://> in front of the URL, so they pile up if you forget to remove them with every edit. Just edited it again to remove that.

<comment><USER7> Such a dumb bug, It's fixed now. Sorry about that.

<comment><USER8> No worries and thanks for the quick fix!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> What I'd like to see is sites like HN using tools like this. So that rather than see some kind of popular consensus about what makes a "good" posting, I see (or have the option of seeing) the kind of thing that _I_ want to see.

EDIT: And if done right, it could render questions like this one irrelevant: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1035206>

<comment><USER10> I was thinking of making a clone of hn to do this it wouldn't be that difficult. Possibly a patch to hn.

<comment><USER9> Do it, definitely.

About "wouldn't be that difficult": no, not given a good and appropriate recommendation engine. However, is there one? For example, in context, we're talking about DirectedEdge. It seems to be aimed primarily at product recommendations, not link recommendations. And I'm not sure these are really even the same problem.

<comment><USER10> According to my reading of the documentation I think the recommendation engine operates on the data set that you specify regardless of the content. It operates on link graphs and group recommendations not the data itself. Basically, the data that is represented is invariant. The operations it does is like a group based recommendation service.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I think you guys should have links to some of your customers on your sales page, so that new customers can see how this actually works on other sites(without having to visualize how they'd implement it on their own site)

Something like "________ is using DirectedEdge to recommend _____, "after installing DirectedEdge our sales went up 15%!!!omgWTFBBQ!" - CEO of ______

</comment><comment><USER12> I have an idea that I've been planning. It's got a lot of little pieces, and one by one, I've discovered that someone else is already making them. It's pretty great living in the future.

</comment><comment><USER13> Congrats guys! Very cool!

I'd like to sign up for a trial, but I have to provide my credit card information first. That's awfully annoying. Is there any chance of removing that requirement?

<comment><USER8> I'm afraid there isn't, but the card is only authorized upon signup though and you will only be billed after 30 days.

You could also sign-up for a non-commercial developer plan, Adam. It doesn't require cc info: <http://www.directededge.com/signup-developer.html>

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Just a quick, unrelated question wheels...

How many of you are there at DirectedEdge? I read that the article said 'cofounder' so I assume there is at least one other?

Great work btw!

<comment><USER5> [http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3893767&id=1388630...](http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3893767&id=138863041240)

<comment><USER15> Like how your logo implies a complex network is not just a 2D graph, it has a 3rd intangible dimension.

<comment><USER8> Thanks, we are in fact very happy with our logo and how it all came together: <http://blog.directededge.com/2009/08/10/the-logo-story/>

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Who owns data that companies expose to directededge?

<comment><USER16> On second thought, this may be a non-issue, since a huge dataset that is just product0-29389283923 and customer0-29389238923 is probably not that useful without product names.

<comment><USER8> That's right, while the product info may be in the clear, we do not collect personally identifiable information from our customers' end users.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Awesome news! Congrats Scott!</comment>


A big picture perspective on the flaws of modern computers - tech-whims https://b.xza.fr/htm/the-flaws-of-computers.htm <comment> tech-whims i'm very open to any critiques or suggestions of this post</comment>


Working Remotely in Cafes and Possibly Even Surviving - <AUTHOR> https://zachholman.com/posts/remote-work-cafes <comment><USER2> > Most coffee shops are filled with scum who had previously been > unceremoniously fired from their "real" jobs and are now just floating > through life, living off the graces of wireless internet for the low price > of a single cup of tea over six hours.

There's very little truth in this article.

Plenty of talented people work remote, and good coffee shops that foster a productive work environment are a great place to meet other people who are doing the same thing you're doing. I've made friends, found new people to work with, picked up new contract gigs... just by talking to people who were working in the same coffee shop I was. If the author thinks so lowly of people who work remote, maybe he's just reflecting on his own situation...</comment>


Show HN: Ollert, a Trello Analysis Tool - <AUTHOR> https://ollertapp.com

<comment><AUTHOR> Last year I built a web application called Ollert to help monitor some information about Trello boards. This year I open-sourced it ([https://github.com/sep/ollert](https://github.com/sep/ollert)).

We're always looking for feedback and contributors to help make it better. We've even considered monetizing it similar to Trello ($5/mo for Trello Gold, which is primarily a vanity payment).

Although we've seen a gentle trickle of users find the site through organic search and Twitter, I was curious to see if the good readers at HN had any interest.

</comment><comment><USER2> I actually currently use this at work to help give my boss status updates on what features I've yet to complete and such. #GoodStuff

</comment><comment><USER3> I love Trello but I use it for myself (I don't share it with anyone else). I am using it for personal projects and work. But I wouldn't be really interested by a such analytic tool (probably because of my usage). Not really information that would help me improve productivity.</comment>


Interesting Arc discussion on Lambda the Ultimate - <AUTHOR> http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2643

<comment><USER2> I think the post with the link to how Al Petrofsky implemented a loop macro with syntax-rules was the most interesting thing in that discussion.

[http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.scheme/msg/5438d13d...](http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.scheme/msg/5438d13dae4b9f71)

I'm definitely going to need a lot more free time before I'll be able to fully understand how it works.

</comment><comment><USER3> "...we're going to keep acting as if we were the only users..."

The shortcut to excellence by avoiding the "lowest common denominator syndrome".</comment>


How  to Sniff Out Online Fakers - <AUTHOR> http://gigaom.com/cloud/5-ways-to-sniff-out-online-fakers/

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey, OP here! I work at Sift Science, who provided all the facts for this article.

It's been crazy to see how far fraudsters will go to create fake accounts. We've seen people in the Phillipines use Twilio accounts, for example, to fool SMS verification and look like a U.S. user. People scripting the creation of thousands of accounts. People distributing malware via Chrome extensions to take over legitimate users' accounts.

Are any of you out there are dealing with malicious user behavior -- fraudsters, spammers, account takeover, etc.? I'd be happy to answer questions!

<comment><USER2> Do you also look at - or have a chance to look at - timezones as reported by the user's browser, or as selected by the user?

One of my services, TweetingMachine, used to have a massive problem with spammers going out of their way to abuse it. However, before a user can schedule a tweet, they have to select their timezone.

Problem solved! There are three or four specific timezones always chosen by the bad guys, and every ten minutes a script ran through the database banning users whose timezones fell into this list.

The surprisingly thing for me was that given the effort of constantly trying to get past my other detection scripts, the spammers either never worked out what was happening, or simply didn't choose a different timezone.

In hindsight, it's quite a cute test, and one that it looks like few of the bad guys bother to adjust (i.e. the time their browser reports via JS) or are aware of.

<comment><USER3> This is why legitimate Nigerians and Chinese are banned from half the Internet.

<comment><USER2> It's not ideal, but past a certain point, as a saas operator you're caught between a rock and a hard place. The best I've been able to come up with is a "do you think this is a mistake" button, which spammers tend to not click.

Still not nice to know that I'm treating people like second-class Internet citizens. At the same time, my available time is extremely limited, so lessor or two evils - for me - it is.

<comment><USER4> Users on HN complain every single day about service companies like Google who remove content or close accounts that haven't broken any rules.

Do you have anything to say to those users, as an operator of a large SaaS provider that deals with fraud/spammers daily?

<comment><USER5> That's mostly because Google has zero customer support. They rely purely on their automated systems. False positives by themselves are not the issue.

<comment><USER4> It sounds like the person I'm asking is doing the _exact_ same thing, but they haven't scaled up to the tens of billions yet. I'm asking how he intends to scale his model.

<comment><USER2> _I'm asking how he intends to scale his model._

Heh, as I alluded to in my reply to your other comment, for TweetingMachine at least, I have _zero_ intent of scaling; tt's a small tool, and will remain a small tool (can't even remember if I've done any work on it in the whole of 2012) whilst I focus my energies elsewhere.

So, being quite so harsh was a means to an end. At the same time, if I experience abuse of any of my other services, it'll definitely be a marker I'll use for more manual investigation.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> If you haven't dealt with an elevated fraud risk yet then you are not yet running a successful business.

Dealing with fraud and abuse takes up a good percentage of the time and other resources at any successful online service. If you don't budget for that and automate it as much as you can then you will possibly fail even though the rest of your service is doing fine.

</comment><comment><USER7> I support having better systems for catching fake accounts and sock puppets, but I am concerned about the potential for new systems/profiles/countermeasures to make online life very difficult for innocent users. We've seen this happen with captchas; the zeal to stop bots has made registering for certain sites or leaving comments nearly impossible for a lot of people. Michael Arrington had this problem recently on Tigers.com (1).

As for the criteria named in the featured article, I work late every night, and I use Yahoo Mail for almost all "casual" account signups to catch spam, unwanted newsletters, and other notifications that I would rather not deal with in my other email inboxes. I would hate to see these be used as an excuse to target me for more intrusive registration steps or deny me access to various sites or services.

1) <http://twitter.com/arrington/status/236893640365068288>

</comment><comment><USER8> Fraud detection seem to be a staple of a lot of successful software companies (Paypal and Yelp come to mind immediately). Great to see a SaaS solution for this pain!

</comment><comment><USER9> How do you plan to deal with false positives (guess who is often awake at 3am :) By that I mean are you returning a probability to your customers and they pick their level of comfort/risk or is it some binary answer?

</comment><comment><USER10> Great to see machine learning used in this way. I hope this lowers prices on services now that other companies don't have to do this work in house.

</comment><comment><USER11> I find the statement _Most traffic coming from Nigeria is fraudulent_ to be bollocks. Like many countries, criminals comprise a minority of the Nigerian population and correspondingly, net fraudsters comprise a minority of the Nigerian online population.

Interestingly, the 2011 top 10 countries by # of reported complaints of net fraud are: 1) United States 90.99% 2) Canada 1.44% 3) United Kingdom 0.97% 4) Australia 0.66% 5) India 0.50% 6) Puerto Rico 0.22% 7) South Africa 0.22% 8) France 0.19% 9) Germany 0.19% 10) Russian Federation 0.17%

Source: Internet Crime Complaint Center (FBI) www.ic3.gov/media/2012/120511.aspx

<comment><USER12> _I find the statement Most traffic coming from Nigeria is fraudulent to be bollocks._

I don't.

Criminals are minority of the Nigerian population, but that minority spends an inordinate amount of their energy trolling online and looking for new venues that regular Nigerians are not likely to visit.

Therefore if you're a US based and targeted company, the majority of YOUR Nigerian traffic IS likely to be fraud. It isn't most of the fraud that you've got to deal with, but it is likely to be so ridiculously obvious and easy to deal with that you'd be a fool not to.

(Of course this is widely enough known that Nigerian scammers use proxies to hide their origin.)

<comment><USER13> The jury is still out on this one. Unless you can show some numbers, it's hard to see this as anything but a subjective extrapolation of the facts.

Nonetheless, Sift Science's claim is at best poorly worded because it gives armor to the false and unfair interpretation that the majority of regular Nigerians folks are fraudulent, which by itself begs the question.

<comment><USER12> I no longer have numbers. It was several years ago that I was working for a US-only company that decided to add a customer to customer piece, then got targeted by scammers. But we definitely rediscovered the fact that IPs from Nigeria were entirely scammers, and so were messages saying Nigeria. Oh, and "Western Union" was not a phrase you want to see and so on.

It was a black hole sink. And since it was at best marginal to that business, that piece eventually got shut down.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> If you're interested in fake registration detection, see also this presentation on a 2-day rush development effort to implement fraudulent account detection at Groupon. <http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Bootstrapping-Clojure> It's also about the awesomeness Clojure, but much of the meat is in the fraud detection algorithm itself.

</comment><comment><USER15> This is some good stuff. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what can be done with it and perhaps the spam all over certain phpBB forums, etc, can be fixed. Of course, those are just the little fish.

</comment><comment><USER16> At this point in time, they should probably know it's comcast.net, and not comcast.com which is for their employees.

</comment><comment><USER17> My initial feeling is that the most crud left behind is from professional fakers, aka menial labor from India/Phils/etc. That's where one can buy fake reviews en masse.

That explains point 1, 2, 3, 5 and possibly even point 4. (working time difference, and cheap equipment.)

The key to detecting fake accounts is tractability. That's why FB logins are gold. You can look at the account and - most of the time - it is easy to tell if it's real or fake.

The problem is that many sites want volume, not quality. They just let anyone "add content". This is a an easily solvable problem that most sites do not actually care to solve.

<comment><USER3> Easy to solve if someone publishes a credibility guide to websites, based on this analysis.

<comment><USER17> It's just simple business rules.

Is it really that hard for you to tell a fake FB/twitter account from a real one that you couldn't code the logic?

You don't even have to code it. You just need to link it. If someone is reading the review, they can go back to the person that wrote it and judge for themselves.</comment></comment></comment>


Facebook's Jan Koum Apologizes for Past Restraining Order - <AUTHOR> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-20/facebook-s-jan-koum-apologizes-for-past-restraining-order.html

<comment><USER2> (1) The actual title of the article was quite different, of course:

 _Facebook's Jan Koum Apologizes for Past Restraining Order_

(2) If they were out to "trash" him, they could have dug up, and perhaps pontificated on some of the statements in the court documents. So if anything, they were exercising restraint in choosing not to do so. Being as some of these are quite troubling indeed:

[http://images.businessweek.com/bloomberg/pdfs/Jan_Koum_docum...](http://images.businessweek.com/bloomberg/pdfs/Jan_Koum_document.pdf)

(3) Oh, and one more thing:

 _"Over the years, I have thought a lot about that difficult period of my life," he said. "I have many regrets and things I wish I could go back and change, but I have also worked hard and tried to improve myself."_

Those are certainly nice thoughts. But given his recent good fortune (due in no small measure to pure blind luck), he has an opportunity to make a much more substantial statement of contrition.

Rather than mull over what he could have done differently in the past, he has a very real and definite opportunity to make a difference _now_ : education and training for women's self-defense; campaigns against gender-based harassment, or violence against sex workers (and sexual slavery); working to end female genital mutilation; to name a few. Being as $7.4b is orders of magnitude more money than nearly anyone could realistically even know _what to do with_ (let alone reasonably need, in any real sense).

Are you listening, Jan?

<comment><AUTHOR> _" Being as some of these are quite troubling indeed:"_

It's from 18 years ago. I guess you're proud of everything you did when you were a teenager?

And yes, when you not only report on an 18 year old incident that resulted in no criminal charges, but also post the court documents for all to see, you are trying to trash the person in pursuit of a few extra clicks on your ads.

<comment><USER2> Koum himself issued a statement; Bloomberg and others were simply following up on it.

Posting the court documents is standard Bloomberg operating procedure (they do that for nearly every story the write), though you're right, it may have been uncalled for in this case. But given that Koum himself chose to come forward with a statement, it wasn't exactly yellow journalism for them to write about it.

<comment><AUTHOR> Koum issued the statement _as a result of the story_. No story, no statement. He didn't come out of the blue and say "hey everyone, 18 years ago - as a teenager - I had a restraining order and now that I'm a billionaire I thought everyone should know. Yep, I want everyone thinking that I am a creep. I'm sending the court documents to Bloomberg to post for all to see as I type this.". They gave him a chance to respond to the story that they were going to publish anyway, and he got in front of it by responding. They knew that if they didn't publish it the way they did, it would make them look far worse.

No one should have to explain 18 year old conduct that resulted in absolutely no arrest or criminal charges and took place when they were 19 years old. It's called a smear campaign. Oh and the high-minded reason they did it? Maybe they were fighting for women's rights? Nope. It was so that they could get a few clicks on their ads. It's the TMZ strategy. It's base, classless nonsense. If there is a single false or inaccurate word in that story, I hope he sends a phalanx of lawyers to go in and sue them into the stone age.

<comment><USER2> _No one should have to explain 18 year old conduct that resulted in absolutely no arrest or criminal charges and took place when they were 19 years old._

Depends on the conduct.

What's important is that (extreme) suffering was caused by his actions. Not that the victim chose not to deepen their suffering by asking for a criminal investigation. Or that the local statutes may have simply been too vague at the time to offer any further protection.

As to the other stuff you're saying: either you have some direct knowledge, which we do not, of both the event chronology behind the various journalistic investigations (several outlets were working on the story, not just Bloomberg) _and_ the internal motivations of those involved -- or you're indulging in speculation, here.

Either way, I don't have an answer to it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> I'm really starting to hate these title edits.</comment>


Understanding the BART labor dispute with d3.js - <AUTHOR> http://enjalot.github.io/bart

<comment><USER2> In the "Salary of Every BART Employee" visualization it won't let me hover over the top row of dots.

Using Chrome 29 on Win7.</comment>


Ask HN: I am building an alternative to HN - <AUTHOR>

what features would u like to have? <comment><USER2> I would actually like a site that's identical to HN, except that comments lacking proper capitalization are auto-killed.

<comment><USER3> I expect you're being facetious here, but that's something a coder could make a browser add-on for, if only for the fun of it.

Any takers?

<comment><USER2> I don't want to ignore their posts, or have them invisible from me. I want the people that fail to use proper capitalization to have their posts automatically rejected and, to be _mildly_ facetious about it, repeat offenders should be hellbanned or publicly shamed. It's disrespectful to your readers to make such a show of putting zero effort into your posts, as if you're too precious to use the same shift keys that everybody else bothered to use.

Edit: Okay, I am being slightly facetious in expressing how strongly I care about this.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Substitute popularity (karma bubbling) for relevance (tags+search). I open HN home page 2-3 times per day (seldom I need to click on more). Of all the results, 3-4 are relevant to me but I still need to quickly read all the titles to find them. Build something smart that lists only what is relevant to me and you have a killer app.

<comment><AUTHOR> For example what is it that you find relevant today on HN. I usualy find all links to be pretty intresting.

<comment><USER5> Something like quora where you get to follow topics of your choice.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> We built one - or more like, we're building one. Not a HN clone, but a tool to let you create a HN clone.

[http://postatic.com](http://postatic.com)

It's a work in progress, but there are handful of cool sites that have been created so far.

Examples

[http://tools.robingood.com](http://tools.robingood.com) [http://self.postatic.com](http://self.postatic.com) [http://www.slackchats.com](http://www.slackchats.com)

<comment><USER7> Looks nice and clean...good work. Reminds me of Telescope (built with Meteor): [http://www.telesc.pe/](http://www.telesc.pe/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Make submissions tag-able so i can customize my front page (perhaps only allow predefined tags). There are a number of topic-categories i do not care about and they withhold interesting links.

</comment><comment> Warewolf-ESB notifications for replies and comments that you can adjust as needed.

</comment><comment><USER9> I would like a more powerful search.

</comment><comment><USER10> the popularity of HN

<comment><AUTHOR> i cant make it popular, its on others if they like it, and thats not a feature

<comment><USER11> It most certainly _is_ a feature.

<comment><USER12> Popularity is an outcome. It may arise due to a combination of features (e.g. adding viral 'share this' buttons, or having karma to encourage participation from existing users) but it's not a feature in the sense of 'a piece of functionality you can build'.

It's an important outcome, and the OP will need to figure out what features will encourage/support popularity.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Please do. I am tired of HN BS but keep coming back because it has great links. But some of the commenters are just assholes :)

<comment><USER3> Welcome to the internet?

HN, in my experience, is one of the better communities online. Trolls seem to be few and far between, and when they do show up, they're downvoted into oblivion. If you think HN is full of assholes, you're going to be sorely disappointed by most other sites too...

<comment> Warewolf-ESB Yes I would agree. I've almost always found HN comments to be helpful and useful. At the worst they are neutral/add no value but are definitely not nasty trolls.</comment></comment></comment>


Jury finds protester not guilty in chalk-vandalism case - <AUTHOR> http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-chalk-verdict-20130701,0,1617754.story <comment><USER2> _That the Bank of America contacted the city attorney 's office to reportedly urge prosecution has become part of the dispute._

Make that, they called and visited her office repeatedly over the course of many months to emphasize the _quid pro quo_ established by previous political donations. If any corner store had made a similar ruckus for a one-time chalk- on-sidewalk "incident", the store owner would have been cited for interfering with the duties of the City Attorney.

I look forward to voting for Mayor Filner when he runs for higher office. I'm also glad the jury saw fit to correct the judge's egregious Constitutional error.

<comment><AUTHOR> If I lived in San Diego I would be tempted to organize a chalk-in at BofA branches

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I could not express my elation in words for this victory!

I said it before when this trended on HN, that I hoped he would go to trial and not take a deal. I don't care if BOFA showed video of him doing it, he had chalk on his hands, and posted pictures up online on FB or Twitter...if I was on the jury, I would've said he wasn't guilty.

Ridiculous lobbying of resources and obvious oppression by BOFA!

</comment><comment><USER4> Good, we've acquitted the guy with children's chalk.

Now can we please jail those responsible for the illegal foreclosures?

<comment><USER5> It hasn't happened in the last 4 years and it won't in the next 4.

The only way to bring justice to banks is to cause a run on them. Take your money out and put it in a small, local credit union.

You'll be glad you did, if only for the level of service you'll receive.

<comment><USER6> Another option is USAA. Unlike their insurance, you don't have to be a member of the military to use their banking services. They are an online-only bank and have magnificent customer service. I switched to them from Wells Fargo a few years back and can't recommend them enough.

<comment><USER7> I switched to USAA too. Overall I've been happy, but I must admit it's a pain in the butt to get money in there. The only easy way to get money there is direct deposit.

If they'd fix that somehow, it would be fantastic.

<comment><USER6> You can take a check to a UPS store[1]. If you're a customer of their car insurance, you can also deposit checks directly by taking a picture of them with your phone via their app[2] - I realize that's not accessible to many folks though.

[1] [https://www.usaa.com/inet/pages/usaa_easy_deposits_main](https://www.usaa.com/inet/pages/usaa_easy_deposits_main)

[2] [https://www.usaa.com/inet/pages/mobile_banking_dm?akredirect...](https://www.usaa.com/inet/pages/mobile_banking_dm?akredirect=true)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> jack-r-abbit Where did this guy get a permanent chalk WMD?

Wait... you're telling me this was chalk like my kids use on my driveway nearly every weekend? The same stuff that takes about 2 seconds to hose off? No shit he's not guilty of vandalism. SMH

</comment><comment><USER8> This is why when you are summoned for jury duty, _go_.

<comment><USER9> Assuming your case is one that actually goes to trial as opposed to the tons that settle.

<comment><USER10> More cases like this, and people may become brave enough to forgo extortive settlements.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> In all of the bad news about the system, this makes me feel pretty good

</comment><comment><USER12> Was he actually facing jail time for this, or was the "13 years" line fed to the media by him/his defense?

Jail time for writing in chalk is absurd, but surely he deserved some reasonable punishment for doing this _13 times_. A small fine and/or community service seems appropriate.

<comment><USER13> > _... surely he deserved some reasonable punishment for doing this 13 times._

Write the following, in chalk, 13 times in front of Bank of America:

 _I will not write in front of your premises in chalk._

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Wow... Embarrassing that this guy was ever charged in the first place. I thought it was some kind of joke when reading the title or that there was more to it, but nope, that pretty much sums it up, chalk. :|

</comment><comment><USER15> Here's some discussion of the legal issues, mostly based on _another_ recent chalk-vandalism prosecution: [http://www.volokh.com/2013/07/01/chalking-and- the-first-amen...](http://www.volokh.com/2013/07/01/chalking-and-the-first- amendment/)

</comment><comment><USER3> Just for a reference, the old HN thread:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5948804](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5948804)

</comment><comment><USER16> Dismayed that this is news. This guy should have never been charged. Now we're surprised he wasn't convicted. SMH.

<comment><AUTHOR> It should have been one of those news stories that are saved for the 'look at the absurdity' humor sections of the news. It does seem to illustrate the political fighting that has gripped the nation though. The Mayor and DA hold opposite views and drug this into the open.

My tendency is to agree with the mayor; massive waste of money. On the other hand it does serve as a small legal precedent now so I guess there is some absolute value. Maybe.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> The public should have zero tolerance for graffiti and vandalism of public property. This guy should have been fined and stuck in jail for 30 days. End of story.

I heard they were trying to put him away for 13 years. That is gross abuse by the justice system. If I were on the jury, I would also declare him not guilty, even though he is.

P.S. You do not have a first amendment right to write on public property. People who are too stupid to understand that, don't actually deserve first amendment rights (though I will still defend their rights, anyway).

<comment><USER18> With chalk. He "wrote" on public property _with chalk_. Are you in favor of prosecuting people for "Lost Dog" signs stapled to telephone poles too?

Good grief. Thankfully our courts have historically taken a rather broader view of the limits of political speech than you have. "Too stupid to deserve rights" indeed. That was just disgraceful, stop it.

<comment><USER19> Did he write on the sidewalk, or on the wall or entryway of the bank?

<comment><USER20> From the article: _" (...) on the sidewalk outside branches of the Bank of America."_

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Thank god. Reason prevails!

</comment><comment><USER22> This seems to be a classic case of jury nullification. He was clearly guilty, but the jury refused to find him guilty.

</comment><comment><USER23> Beside the point, but

"a 40-year-old man" "He was a civil rights activist in the 1960s"

doesn't really add up.

<comment><USER2> The former is the defendant. The latter is the mayor, who commented on the case.

<comment><USER23> Oops, that's right.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Jan Goldsmith needs a new job.

<comment><USER25> What exactly is going on in San Diego's voting booths, anyway? A Republican city attorney on a crusade against chalk, and a far-left civil rights activist mayor?

I'm reading through Filner's record, and the guy looks like a much older version of me. I'm left-wing enough that I think Berkeley would be scared of me, nevermind San Diego.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> I respect the jury's decision but have a had time swallowing that anyone who wants to should be able to systematically slander a business in chalk 13 times and it not be considered some sort of crime. Poor precedent. Should have gotten a slap on the wrist.

<comment><USER27> IANAL, but AFAIK Slander involves communicating a falsehood. "BoA stole $10T of lunch money from children in Africa" would be slander (outside of the context of this post and the fact that it is a clearly ridiculous assertion). "No Thanks, Big Banks" (a representative example of what the guy actually wrote) is not slander.

The charges were for vandalism, which arguably has a place in political discourse and arguably doesn't even deserve a slap on the wrist.

<comment><USER26> Fair enough on the slander point, but how does this not set a precedent for people to start spamming political messages all over sidewalks in front of Evil Corporation of The Month? The only real reasoning I could see is that perhaps just the fear of being sentence was deterrence enough.

<comment><USER25> Personally, I'd be thrilled to have such a precedent.

Seriously. It's a sidewalk. When not covered in chalk, it's just a boring surface.

Protests, political slogans, landscapes, ponies, shrines to $deity of your choice, ads for the competing coffee shop on the next street, I'll take it all.

<comment><USER26> Lets break it down logically. I think most people would agree this guy should be found guilty if he had used spraypaint to deface sidewalks 13 times. Spraypaint, like chalk, is removable too, it just requires more effort and cost. Removing the chalk, according to BoA, cost a few thousand dollars. (Probably because they had to hire someone come with a power washer, and weren't going to ask their employees to do it.)

I guess my question is, why is chalk different than spraypaint in the eyes of the law? Is it because the rain will wash it away, or because the relative cost to washing it away with a hose is low compared to more permanent media? What if there is no hose access to the sidewalk in an area where there is no rain for weeks at a time? Where is the line drawn?

<comment><USER28> Other people have discussed and refuted your various arguments. I want to tackle something else.

You are dismissing elements of the case as if they aren't important.

> Lets break it down logically.

Logic dictates that you look at the case at hand, not at all the possible permutations.

It's not as if you can say simply that killing someone is a crime and deserves X punishment, regardless of the details, and driving over the speed limit isn't an instant ticket if seen by a cop.

So, then you ask:

> why is chalk different than spraypaint in the eyes of the law?

First, because they are different. They aren't the same. Not all cases of vandalism are the same, and they shouldn't be treated the same.

We see what happens in cases like that when people use zero-tolerance as an excuse to come down hard on someone who was clearly not doing anything harmful.

> What if there is no hose access to the sidewalk in an area where there is no > rain for weeks at a time?

And what if it was raining at the time? The person drawing _while_ the rain immediately washed it away. One could argue then that the act of vandalism still occurred in both cases. One just happened to happen while it rained.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


These Coloradans say Earth is flat. And gravity's a hoax - <AUTHOR> http://www.denverpost.com/2017/07/07/colorado-earth-flat-gravity-hoax/ <comment><USER2> This was a great read, and especially hit on the human elements of the Flat Earthers. Here's my favorite quote:

> "How are we Flat Earthers supposed to explain to our friends the solar > eclipse in August?" asked one attendee. The room fell silent. "We'll have to > do more research and get back to you on that."

> "I started the same way as everyone else, saying, 'Oh, I'll just prove the > earth is round.' Nine months later, I was staring at my computer thinking, > 'I can't prove the globe anymore.' "

Just because the person trying to prove it can't prove it, doesn't mean it can't be proven. What some people seem to hate is accepting what someone else says, but not having the tools to recreate/understand the proof themselves.

> "They want you to think you're insignificant, a speck on the earth, a cosmic > mistake," Sargent says. "The flat earth says you are special, we are > special, there is a creator, this isn't some accident."

Again, because you're feeling dis-empowered, just ignore everything and make something up. Then you're the authority on it. That's why in the end, they are really a religion. They even talk about their evil nemesis:

> "It's not about money. They want complete mind control," Knodel says after > the meeting in the lobby of the Fort Collins coffee shop. "They want to > create two classes: the ultra rich and servants. At that point they would've > taken over the world, and enslaved the population, and controlled > everything."

Of course, the following line nobody said is "and us flat earthers are the only ones who can stop it!"

</comment><comment><USER3> Watching flat earth videos on YouTube is hilarious. Some of my favorites:

\- they show Hillary Clinton talking about "the highest and hardest glass ceiling" in a speech. They use that as evidence that Hillary is secretly acknowledging the earth is flat and covered by a dome.

-a guy watches at a flight tracker of a flight from Africa to South America. Of course this flight would be much longer if the earth was flat. Well in the video he's watching and the flight disappears from the map not long after it starts crossing the ocean. The guy then says it's proof that the government is fiddling with flight info to hide the flat earth facts. Then I read the comments and one guy notes that you have to pay the flight tracker to track flights over the ocean... so funny</comment>


Ask HN: What tools do you use to prototype web UI? - <AUTHOR> To all front end devs. When you prototype some new web UI component, are there any specific tools you use? E.g. if your UI needs data, where do you get it from? <comment><USER2> I have been using Balsamiq for a long time, you can make something presentable very fast and with very little effort : [https://balsamiq.com](https://balsamiq.com)

I have also used Moqups, which offers also a simple solution but in the browser: [https://moqups.com/](https://moqups.com/)

For UI data:

\- Avatars : [http://pravatar.cc/](http://pravatar.cc/)

\- Placeholder images : [https://placehold.it/](https://placehold.it/)

\- Random names and user data : [https://randomuser.me/](https://randomuser.me/)

\- Arabic names (right-to-left): [https://raed.tn/php/tounsi/random/](https://raed.tn/php/tounsi/random/)

<comment><USER3> I love balsamiq!

I'm surprised to say this, but they use Comic Sans MS perfectly! Most other tools run in to the danger of looking like the final design. If you give less sketch like mockups to devs they might copy them pixel perfect without thinkng a bit or your client might dislikes the ugly "design".

Sometimes you have to copy+paste a lot, but it's worth the simplicity (there is an option to reuse elements across pages, but it didn't seem worth the complexity, so sometimes I paste the new menu bar on every page again for the final design, takes 5 mins and is usually fine.)

Its fast enough to even use it for internal communication of implementation details for UI stuff. Often much easier than writing a lot.

Regarding web: you have to make 2 mockups and do one mobile version, one non- mobile version. Most web stuff is quite simple in structure though, so I often just do it in my head and dive straight to photoshop for the actual design and do the even simpler mobile version just in CSS.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Pencil/paper although I _upgraded " to whiteboard/dry erase recently would like to have a digital drawing tablet though _cough* surface studio haha! Something like a wacom would be nice.

There's that Latin or French thing... For sample paragraphs forget what it's called. Starts with a couple phrases, ellipsis, but it expands to a whole paragraph or more.

<comment><USER5> Do you mean Lorem Ipsum? - [http://www.lipsum.com/](http://www.lipsum.com/)

In MS Word you can generate is by typing the following and pressing enter

=lorem()

you can put # of paragraphs into the method to add that many e.g =lorem(5)

you can also use =rand() to put in some random help stuff text

<comment><USER4> Yeah that's it thanks.

Good filler text there

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I've recently taken a Udacity course " _Intro to the Design of Everyday Things_ "[0] and jotted down a preliminary summary[1].

Here are some of the tools they listed:

\+ Hybrid paper/digital tools to animate paper pictures:

\- [https://popapp.in/](https://popapp.in/)

\- [https://www.flinto.com/](https://www.flinto.com/)

* Apple Keynote

* MS PowerPoint

* Google Presentation

* [http://keynotopia.com/guides/](http://keynotopia.com/guides/)

* [https://balsamiq.com/](https://balsamiq.com/)

\+ HTML5 prototypes:

\- [http://tumult.com/hype/](http://tumult.com/hype/)

\- [http://www.adobe.com/products/edge- animate.html](http://www.adobe.com/products/edge-animate.html)

\- [https://www.google.com/webdesigner/](https://www.google.com/webdesigner/)

\+ Misc:

\- [http://hackdesign.com/](http://hackdesign.com/)

\- [http://www.usabilitycounts.com/2012/08/30/four-ways-to- break...](http://www.usabilitycounts.com/2012/08/30/four-ways-to-break-into- user-experience/)

\- [http://52weeksofux.com/](http://52weeksofux.com/)

\- [https://www.interaction-design.org/](https://www.interaction-design.org/)

[0]: [https://www.udacity.com/course/intro-to-the-design-of- everyd...](https://www.udacity.com/course/intro-to-the-design-of-everyday- things--design101)

[1]: [https://github.com/jhadjar/Notes/blob/master/Design/Intro%20...](https://github.com/jhadjar/Notes/blob/master/Design/Intro%20to%20the%20Design%20of%20Everyday%20Things.MD)

</comment><comment><USER7> Balsamiq Mockups is great for prototyping/mockups: [https://balsamiq.com](https://balsamiq.com)

For random data, you can use something like [https://www.mockaroo.com](https://www.mockaroo.com)

</comment><comment><USER8> [http://draw.io](http://draw.io) is free and is absolutely brilliant. It is one of my favorite tools, it helps me to do all kinds of thinking, and it is extremely good at mockups as well.

</comment><comment><USER9> Html

</comment><comment><USER10> Eve</comment>


A One Parameter Equation That Can Exactly Fit Any Scatter Plot - <AUTHOR> https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2018/05/one-parameter-equation-can-exactly-fit-scatter-plot.html <comment><USER2> Their formula is neat, but the fact that you can fit any finite set of data to arbitrary precision with a smoothly varying one parameter family of functions is easy. Here is another construction. Let P_1, P_2, ... be an enumeration of the polynomials with rational coefficients, let phi_i be a smooth function supported on [i-1/2,i+1/2] with phi_i(i)=1, and let f_theta(x) = sum phi_i(theta) P_i(x) = phi_round(theta)(theta) P_theta(x), where round(theta) is the closest integer to theta. Whatever you mean by smoothly varying one- parameter family of functions, this is surely it, since on any open interval the image is contained in a finite dimensional vector space and the curve of functions is smooth. Since we can hit any polynomial with rational coefficients by picking the right (integer) theta, and for any finite set E, f : E to R, and epsilon>0 there exists a polynomial P with rational coefficients such that |P(x) - f(x)|<epsilon for all x in E, we are done.

</comment><comment><USER3> "[..] the paper also tells us that Occam's Razor is wrong [..]"

I doubt the paper say that, and I don't think it's true.

It seems to me that Occam's Razor is about the quantity of information, not about how many parameters you use to store the information.

</comment><comment><USER4> This paper was really interesting and it's awesome, but I'm tired of everyone saying that this means parameter counting is a useless heuristic for the complexity of a model. The more parameters you add to some ML models (for instance NN and SVM) the higher the VC dimension, and that's that. Many models are simply not constructed in a way that a single parameter can encode all of the necessary information. (And still be a continuous function of that parameter)

</comment><comment><USER5> Heh, neat. Now all you need is to implement that logistic map solver in hardware and write a function that maps other functions into their equivalent "decimal code" and you've got a pretty fun computer going.

The paper notes that these functions are infinitely continuously differentiable. I wonder if they'd have any applications in machine learning?

</comment><comment><USER6> If I created a formula that randomly plotted each "pixel" on or off, there's a seed out there that will plot my name, no?

Is this what the paper is about, or is it something different?

</comment><comment><USER7> Doesn't Gödel numbering already guarantee that kind of function?</comment>


UN experts denounce 'myth' that pesticides are necessary to feed the world - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/07/un-experts-denounce-myth-pesticides-are-necessary-to-feed-the-world <comment><USER2> I'm no fan of pesticides -- far, far, from it -- but this is unadulterated ideological polemic. Reading the actual report, the argument can be summed up as:

      1. Pesticides are bad.

      2. Pesticides are bad.

      3-8. Pesticides are bad.

      9. Oh and they don't even do anything.

The first sections may be entirely true, but are not a cost/benefit analysis. I could easily believe that 200,000 die every year from pesticide toxicity. But if 100 million people are saved from starvation every year due to pesticide use, then that isn't an argument against it. You need to present both sides of an argument in order for it to be anything less then polemical.

The final section is based on misrepresentation of sources. For example, first source they cite[1] does, in fact, state in the abstract that:

      Despite a clear increase in pesticide use, crop losses
      have not significantly decreased during the last 40 years.

And then goes on to state:

      However, pesticide use has enabled farmers to modify
      production systems and to increase crop productivity without
      sustaining the higher losses likely to occur from an
      increased susceptibility to the damaging effect of pests.

      The concept of integrated pest/crop management includes a
      threshold concept for the application of pest control
      measures and reduction in the amount/frequency of pesticides
      applied to an economically and ecologically acceptable
      level. Often minor crop losses are economically acceptable;
      however, an increase in crop productivity without adequate
      crop protection does not make sense, because an increase in
      attainable yields is often associated with an increased
      vulnerability to damage inflicted by pests.

...Which is completely counter to the assertions made in the anti-pesticide article.

This is crap. If you want to see less pesticide use, do some actual science to prove your point; don't resort to polemical nonsense.

1: [https://documents-dds- ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/G17/017/85/PDF...](https://documents-dds- ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/G17/017/85/PDF/G1701785.pdf?OpenElement)

2: [https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of- agricultu...](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-agricultural- science/article/div-classtitlecrop-losses-to- pestsdiv/AD61661AD6D503577B3E73F2787FE7B2)

[edit: formatting]

<comment><USER3> > If you want to see less pesticide use, do some actual science to prove your > point; don't resort to polemical nonsense.

I agree with everything you said, except maybe this. Polemical nonsense _can_ be more effective than science if you are trying to alter policy or public opinion. If that weren't true, global warming wouldn't be controversial.

<comment><USER2> I don't disagree with you as far as the _effectiveness_ of polemic; more the _ethics_ of it. Built on a rational/empirical foundation, a good polemic can engage hit people in both the guts _and_ the brain. That's fine. But _absent_ such a foundation, a polemic is just empty posturing. It might win, but to what end? And if we accept this as a legitimate way of arguing policy, then how what right to we have to object when others use the same tactic against us?

I recognise that all over the world -- and especially in America -- the political sphere is increasingly dominated by people engaging in polemical arguments that consider facts to be essentially irrelevant. And yes, this is working for them. But if we stoop to that level, the contagion only spreads, and politics devolves into nothing more than tribal hooting at one another. Which is usually the last step before civil war.

So we need to be better than that.

<comment><USER3> The ethics are complex. If the use of polemic speech spurs action on climate change, you are potentially avoiding (or mitigating) catastrophes. Sometimes the end justifies the means.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> white-flame Regardless of any real or tin-foil-hatted dangers regarding pesticides, GMO, etc, I believe that biodiversity in and decentralization of our food supply are two vectors of robustness & anti-fragility that we should embrace, as opposed to optimizing outputs for monoculture monopoly farming.

<comment><USER4> Agreed, but why then are the opinion papers such as Guardian then concentrating on denouncing GMO or pesticides, and not monocultures?

<comment><USER5> Not entirely sure, but a couple of thoughts.

Monoculture is a less well-known problem than pesticides for the general public. Its easier to rail against a problem that feels familiar than to teach a somewhat new idea and then discuss the dangers of it.

Additionally, a lot of people like the products of monoculture and the cheap, on-demand, readily-available food business that it enables. It would take a seismic shift for a lot of people to accept discoloration in their mcdonalds french fries, or tomatoes at walmart that aren't all perfectly spherical pinkish orbs.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I try not to use pesticides myself on my hobby farm, they do have many downsides. However, I invite people to go visit their local organic farms, where you will find the following suboptimal approaches to weed control:

\- Extensive rototilling / plowing / cultivation, soil disturbance: damages soil structure, increases erosion, releases carbon locked in the soil worsening global warming.

\- Propane burners strapped to the back of a tractor, torching the weeds.

\- Extensive use of volunteer or cheap manual labour -- look up WWOOF... true- believer volunteer "WWOOFers" make up a significant labour force at organic farms.

Finally, you will find that most organic farms are just growing green vegetables or fruits and some small scale livestock. Which is great, but frankly on a global scale what people eat the most of[but probably shouldn't] is primarily wheat, maize, rice, and casava. You won't find many organic wheat farms.

From my perspective the long term answer is to transition agriculture and foodstuffs away from annual herbaceous crops which require tillage and/or spray-down to perennial crops which over the long term build up soil structure and potentially lock carbon away rather than releasing it. For an example of research in this direction, take a look at The Land Institute's "Kernza" perennial wheat replacement: [https://landinstitute.org/our-work/perennial- crops/kernza/](https://landinstitute.org/our-work/perennial-crops/kernza/)

Agriculture is probably the biggest contributor to global climate change through the combination of deforestation, intensive hydrocarbon usage, and the damaging of soils. It is imperative we figure out a way to get it right, and the discussions of GMO or pesticides are frankly a distraction from this problem.

<comment><USER7> > It is imperative we figure out a way to get it right, and the discussions of > GMO or pesticides are frankly a distraction from this problem

They contribute to our contemporary vision of agriculture, which is intensive, mono specific, high yield, mechanized, subsidized, etc. Short term.

GMO and pesticides optimize our current way of growing stuff but won't change it.

I don't know about scaling progressively the permaculture ideal to world scale but it feels like a good ideal. I would not be shocked if a sustainable system would require us quadruple our effort (which is pretty much what third world is up to).

<comment><USER6> Yes I agree with you. This is my problem with GMO -- not the 'frankengene' pseudo-science crap, but the ecological/economic problems you are mentioning here.

But as someone who ran in permaculture circles for a bit, I am highly skeptical of that ideological bucket, too.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> The original report[0] recommends "agroecology" as the alternative.

So when _Phytophthora Infestans_ led to the death a million Irish in the 19th century, what should have been done? Or are we supposed to forget history?

[0][https://documents-dds- ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/G17/017/85/PDF...](https://documents-dds- ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/G17/017/85/PDF/G1701785.pdf?OpenElement)

<comment><USER9> It was a high reliance on a monoculture which contributed to the devastation. Smart "agroecology" would not forget the "ecology" root, meaning it would design robust, biodiverse ecologies to produce our food.

<comment><USER10> Bad governance also contributed. Ireland was exporting food while the locals starved.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)#Causes_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_\(Ireland\)#Causes_and_contributing_factors)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> > Production is definitely increasing, but the problem is poverty, inequality > and distribution.

Poverty and inequality are symptoms, they aren't problems that can be generically solved independently of production.

> Elver said many of the pesticides are used on commodity crops, such as palm > oil and soy, not the food needed by the world's hungry people

It's 2017, we live in a global market. These are still industries that generate wealth. Poorer countries could (and do) grow/sell these crops and export them to other countries. Then they can take this capital and invest it in more essential items locally.

And if they believe in wealth redistribution as a 'solution' to poverty (as it seems to be implied?) then if this generates wealth in developed countries with plenty of food (even entirely independently of developing countries) then it could create surplus capital allowing them to provide aid and resources to developing countries.

It seems like starting from the perspective that because product/production A doesn't _directly_ benefit hungry people in B country that there is no way it benefits the world as whole by being produced. Which is full of obvious reductionist issues.

The problem/solution is we need to find safer pesticides or technology to grow these foods and reduce the harmful externalities of production. But the connection to not contributing to the global economy (rather than just developed world) is questionable.

</comment><comment><USER12> Denounce is very different from debunked. In fact it is expression opinion vs fact.

<comment><USER13> Debunk implies rational argument. That article is ranting.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> It's not _necessary_. I mean if we use organic farming methods, we could achieve the same thing except not only do they produce more emissions, but because of the lower yield of crops, organic farms require more land.

In the tropics this means cutting down more rainforests, affecting not only emissions but wildlife.

The scientific and technological solution is disease and pest resistant GM crops.

<comment><USER14> In the developed countries food is just to cheap. I know this is controversial statement, but considering how much food is wasted daily, and how much we're overeating it's possible that not subsidizing food production, and getting rid of pesticides would be better for us all.

The only other issue is that poor families would possibly have even less access to food, but if we shuffled subsidies from farmers to the poor, that would probably be enough.

Also, problem with the food full of pesticides, and virtually empty of micronutrients is that this food is not really something we should be eating anyway.

<comment><USER15> I'm glad someone said this!

Like a lot of cheap goods available presently in the west, they often have a low monetary cost but a high social and environmental cost.

IKEA furniture has had a dubious past, for example [1] and, cheap clothing can be horrendous. [2]

Most people don't give a single thought about this stuff though, people even get abusive if you mention it, but I still like to practice what I call "deep consuming", which is investigating the origin of goods before purchasing :)

[1][https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/may/29/ikea- anc...](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/may/29/ikea-ancient-tree- logging) [2] [http://truecostmovie.com/](http://truecostmovie.com/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> My understanding of the issue is framed along the lines of these three statements:

1\. Modern farming practices have increased productivity to the point where it is possible to avoid serious food shortages.

2\. A significant percentage of the world population does not fully benefit from these advances (~10%, according to [1]).

3\. In many systems, increasing utilisation (food productivity in this case) also increases the risks associated with random variability.

Given what I know, point 1 is essentially indisputable. Technological advances (including developments in pest control) have freed large portions of the world population from periodic food poverty.

I feel that point 2 is used to justify increased investment in certain categories of the developments referred to in point 1. That hungry people exist is sufficient to justify expenditure that _could_ address food shortages, but, in fact, does not. This is the main focus of the article - that claims about reducing poverty are cynically employed by businesses to further their economic goals. This should not really be a surprise, because business is largely about making money, not reducing poverty.

Point 3 is something that I have long been concerned with, because I don't see any mechanism in the market to restrain us from attempting to maximise productivity. As described, the move towards maximisation is justified in terms of poverty, and, although it can address that issue, it brings us closer to another danger, which is global susceptibility to large random events. It is for this reason that I feel the true focus should be on reducing poverty, rather than simply allowing the market to attempt to solve the problem. Reduced poverty is, as I understand it, generally associated with decreases in population growth, from which we may be able to maintain a robust global food supply that doesn't leave anyone hungry.

[1] [http://www.worldhunger.org/2015-world-hunger-and-poverty- fac...](http://www.worldhunger.org/2015-world-hunger-and-poverty-facts-and- statistics/#hunger-number)

edit: formatting

</comment><comment><USER17> This may be controversial, but aren't GMOs really the way to go?

<comment><USER4> Scientifically, it's not controversial. The consensus about GMO's being good is stronger than in the climate change case.

<comment><USER18> The EU regulatory bodies are not filled with crystal-waving hippies. Maybe you should look into why GMOs are banned/heavily restricted there (environmental/ecological risks).

"But science" is a good corporate propaganda strategy when the science does clearly say one thing, but not this other thing which is also important. Don't be misled. Look at the entire issue.

<comment><USER4> Huffington Post is filled with crystal-waving hippies, but they still publish this:

[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon- entine/post_8915_b_6572130...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon- entine/post_8915_b_6572130.html)

 _" In sharp contrast to public views about GMOs, 89% of scientists believe genetically modified foods are safe.

That's the most eye-opening finding in a Pew Research Center study on science literacy, undertaken in cooperation with the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS), and released on January 29.

The overwhelming scientific consensus exceeds the percentage of scientists, 88%, who think humans are mostly responsible for climate change. However, the public appears far more suspicious of scientific claims about GMO safety than they do about the consensus on global warming."_

The EU regulatory bodies are governed by elected politicians who in this case listen to fearmongering, not science.</comment></comment></comment></comment>