Ask YC: Software That Makes a Difference - <AUTHOR>

Let's face it: working in business software typically means writing code to line a few peoples' pockets (and sometimes not even your own).  Much of Web 2.0 and social software is merely a distraction and only really helps communication among a technological elite, and does not substantially improve the quality of life for those who use it.  This is a personal dilemma I have faced for some time now.
How do you work in software that has a meaningful impact on peoples' lives?  What sort of software can generally help lift up humanity?  Embedded software for devices has the ability to act on our physical environment.  Games have the ability to give people joy and escape.  Creative software allows people to make good things.  What else is there?
Have you found a way to write software that has a real, tangible, positive net effect on society?  This is a major factor in my startup decision.  I might be too idealist. <comment><USER2> Work for GreenMountain Engineering. We work solely on renewable energy, which I believe to be a more crucial concern than social networking.

We're mostly mechanical engineers, but we do a lot of embedded systems programming for photovoltaic manufacturing equipment. We're currently working on a solar tracker controller that uses YUI, Python, and Debian on a small single-board computer. One of our employees was a YC guy from a few cycles back who had the same desire as you.

Or start a renewable energy company that competes with Fat Spaniel-- they seem to have missed the web 2.0 thing. Or compete with us. We could use some hungry competition to keep us from getting lazy.

</comment><comment><USER3> How did you decide that social networking is "merely a distraction", and yet games "have the ability to give people joy and escape"?

> I might be too idealist.

Are you really?

If you really and truly want to have a net positive effect on society, write some open-source software and contribute it to the FOSS community. Aim for things that will help others, e.g. for the 100$ laptop program.

<comment><AUTHOR> > write some open-source software and contribute it to the FOSS community

The only problem I see with FOSS is that a very _very_ tiny portion of people, as a whole, will ever actually use it. Perhaps if it lead to cost savings for municipal governments that helps to pay for social programs?

> the 100$ laptop program.

I was going to mention that, but it has been usurped by Microsoft and real benefit has yet to be seen.

<comment><USER3> > The only problem I see with FOSS is that a very very tiny portion of people, > as a whole, will ever actually use it.

Or more precisely, only a very very tiny portion of the people will ever actually __knowingly __use it. How much of the internet utilizes the linux kernel? or Apache? Or MySql? or gcc/gdb/glibc?

The impact of a single significant gcc change reverberates all over the computing world.

<comment><USER4> I'd say people that uses Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice or eMule does know what they're using.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Phil Greenspun's writings (e.g. <http://philip.greenspun.com/panda/better- living>) make me think that if you want your software to "make a difference" you should keep your mind focused on the actual difference you want to make instead of trying to just outdo whatever technical or business competition you may think you have.

</comment><comment><USER6> Write some software that gives voters a way to monitor what their representatives are doing and how they are voting.

Perhaps it could provide a means of informal electronic voting. Perhaps it could standardize the way government officials communicate with their constituencies. Perhaps that would lower the barrier of entry so more people would be involved in their government.

</comment><comment><USER6> Write software to help people communicate without being spied on by their government.

</comment><comment><USER7> Business applications can allow people to deliver more value for less cost (time and money), which has a flow on effect to their clients' clients / end users.

I disagree that Web 2.0 social software is "merely a distraction". 1) Enhanced communication has substantial benefits, and 2) even glib developments can later form the basis for meaningful impact on lives - the telephone was probably a distraction at first, but where we would be without 911 ?

</comment><comment><USER8> Well, our vision is pretty idealist. We do intend to have a real, tangible, positive net effect on society.

We want to do it in different ways. Our first way is through <http://bug.gd> where we do everything in our power to be sure no one ever has to solve error messages that have already been worked-around.

We have long-term plans to grow this into local system resources, embedded in your OS and included in software-- when there's a system fault, you always have access to how others solved the problem.

If we eventually make money on it, great-- but really I was just sick and tired of this endless waste of human resources, repeating the same things over and over again.

Anyone who feels the same should install the Firefox extension in my profile-- if you don't, well everyone else's solutions are indexed by major search engines so you get the benefit anyway.

</comment><comment><USER9> Yes! Software can and does make a difference in people's lives. Think out- side-in. Start with people and look at their problems and then decide what software will solve their problems. Don't start with 'social-software' and look for a problem. Two cases: Look at how you local fire department uses mobile computers to deliver maps, CAD drawings, medical information to firefighters on the way to an emergency. BIG IMPACT! Look how social software - yes, even social software - drives activism for Obama. BIG IMPACT! I'm an idealist too. :)

</comment><comment><USER10> _Have you found a way to write software that has a real, tangible, positive net effect on society?_

Yes. Everything I do.

I (along with many others) write lots of software to help small and midsize businesses compete more effectively. They, in turn, provide value to their customers, jobs for their employees, and pay taxes to their communities. If that's not a "real, tangible, positive net effect on society", I don't know what is.

Not everyone has to find a cure for disease or discover how to provide clean air and water for the masses. You don't have to change the whole world, just a little piece of it.

A mentor once suggested I think of it like a football team. Some pass, some catch, some run, some block, and some tackle. All you have to do is "your job" well, for the team "the rest of us" to succeed.

Please don't be such an "idealist" that you never find your calling. Just pick something close enough and go for it.

The real heroes are in the pits every day, helping others do their thing. You oughta join them.

<comment><USER11> Modding this up.

From the original post:

 _working in business software typically means writing code to line a few peoples' pockets..._

You're talking like a person for whom earning money is some kind of _option_. In most of the world, "lining your pockets" is a necessary precondition for things like "eating" and "paying rent".

Perhaps you need to get a job in a factory. (Not that this is always an easy thing to do, in the 21st-century USA.) I used to work in a factory, as part of an engineering team that was desperately trying to get a brand-new class of product to market. We were acutely aware that, if our product turned out to be unmanufacturable, everyone in our division -- from the local senior management to the hundreds of hard-working blue-collar folks who ran, fixed, and cleaned the equipment on the night shift -- was at risk of being laid off. In fact, just to inspire us, many of the folks at our local site got laid off anyway, thanks to the dotcom bust and the resulting slump in telecom.

I'm proud of the software I wrote for _that_ project. Not because it was particularly elegant -- which it was not -- but because it helped keep the fabs alive, the products alive, the company alive, and hundreds of American and Malaysian workers alive.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Google the keyword "ICT4Dev".

I think it's pretty much what edw519 already said: Build something of value and you are already making a difference.

I think the step one for you is to figure out what community (target user) you feel connected and want to serve. Then, step two is to find a solution that A) you can realistically build; and B) it is sustainable (resource-wise)

The world is full of problems for you to solve. Just pick one and do it!

</comment><comment><USER13> I submitted this earlier today, but I think software like the package mentioned in this article meets your criteria: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=226883>

</comment><comment><USER14> Yes, I used to work for a biotech startup, writing bleeding edge scientific software.

The startup tanked, but I don't regret anything, and I plan to get right back into bioinformatics.

<comment><USER15> What's the best way for a business software programmer to get into bioinformatics?

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Write software to help people protect their privacy online.</comment>


Payloads - <AUTHOR> http://xkcd.com/1461/

<comment><USER2> I always forget how giant the Saturn V was.

Also I appreciate Atlas-Centaur being one centaur.</comment>


Show HN: Klout Feed - get your daily Klout Score via RSS - <AUTHOR> http://klout-feed.jupo.org

<comment><AUTHOR> Long time Django guy new to Ruby. I put this together to get a bit more familiar with the language and landscape. It's a baby Sinatra app hosted on Heroku. Hope someone finds it useful.</comment>


Steve Jobs Told Top Employees No To Television - <AUTHOR> http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-no-television-2014-3?op=1

<comment><USER2> A-players don't watch TV.</comment>


Wearable gadgets that can read your mind - <AUTHOR> https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/10/ces-2020-mind-reading-technology-lets-you-control-gadgets-and-games.html <comment><USER2> I had the idea the other to day to start a list of hackable cybernetic devices. I'm thinking things like the sub-vocalization we saw earlier in the week, the latest brain activity scanners (MEG, fMRI, EEG), brain stimulation stuff (tDCS), anything that could let you interact with a computer in subtle and more integrated ways than a keyboard/mouse.

Does anyone know of a similar list already started?

<comment><USER3> I started to compile a list of Human <> Digital I/O a while ago. This wasn't written up as a real article, more for my own notes, but I wanted to publish it for (a) sharing and (b) to be in the public domain so none of my employers can call dibs on my high-level thinking & resources.

link - [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oBe27BKbpvts7UNANxv9...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oBe27BKbpvts7UNANxv9ZgIUA5QyFdx9Bppj7GQuYaw/)

I design consumer electronics, mostly focused on early stages including concept / design / enclosure / HW component & feature architecture. My job is to build digital stuff that is intuitive, useful, and buildable.

I figured that it would be a useful exercise to survey a relatively complete a landscape of "I/O" available for both humans and digital technology.

If we start with the (imperfect) premise that humans are machines, then we can look at all the sensory apparatus we have to determine what access we have to the doors of perception. What are the different types of the nervous system's inputs? Repeat the exercise for electronic machines, to see what tools we have that can interact with body and material. What are the different types of tech's inputs and outputs? Human I/O and Digital I/O.

The overlap of those two sets maps the possible ways human physiology might interact with digital technology. To be clear this only covers the most physical & materialist levels, but it's a start and a useful tool for me.

I have a separate list of actual companies and products that have shipped consumer-facing biosensor tech, but I haven't added it to this doc yet. One more thing on the to-do list...

<comment><USER2> That's very cool! Thanks for sharing.

I was thinking of a list of hardware devices with some notes on how hard they were to repurpose and experiment with. Could be a tough field to stay on top of though.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> So could we have a relevant ads this way finally?

<comment><USER5> And they can feed a stream of your dissident/criminal thoughts to the state thought police. Win-win.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Is mind-reading the same thing as measuring electrical activity in the brain?

<comment><USER7> Far from it. Reading electrical activity is just the tip of the iceberg;

<comment><USER6> Where does the _mind_ come into it? Calling what these things do _mind reading_ feels a bit overblown to me.

<comment><USER8> Very overblown. The trick with the color-changing lamp is more of a hack than a true BCI. It's reading your brain, but not something occuring in your conscious thoughts.

If it's implemented like I think it is, there's an observable signal in the brain from looking at a high frequency oscillating light source. What's not happening is an analysis of signals to recognize you're _consciously thinking_ about green or holding the concept "green" in your mind.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: What are some great resources to build a secure website? - <AUTHOR> Worried about the security of my application.
Is there anything you recommend that helps one ensure that all holes are filled and the site is hacker-proof?
Something that basically enumerates the vulnerabilities that you have to be aware of and what they stem from. And then possibly some type of tutorials that shows you how to implement them? <comment><USER2> For the client, there's ScanJS [0] which is implemented as a set of eslint rules [1] if you're using eslint.

It's a good first pass which will point out the most obvious / common security mistakes in JS in the browser. Though be warned that it will likely raise a fair few false positives. It's probably most useful as an informational dev- time tool. I wouldn't fail builds on it unless you want to be adding eslint- ignore comments everywhere :-)

[0] [https://github.com/mozilla/scanjs](https://github.com/mozilla/scanjs)

[1] [https://github.com/mozfreddyb/eslint-config- scanjs](https://github.com/mozfreddyb/eslint-config-scanjs)

</comment><comment><USER3> [https://cheatsheetseries.owasp.org](https://cheatsheetseries.owasp.org)

</comment><comment><USER4> Pen and paper</comment>


Salary history: Just say no - <AUTHOR> http://corcodilos.com/blog/224/salary-history-just-say-no <comment><USER2> This comes down to negotiation theory. Is it better to make the first offer, or wait for the other person to make the first offer? I used to think "The first person to mention a number loses", but after taking a negotiations class and applying some of the concepts, I learned the power of anchoring the negotiation by mentioning the first number. After the first number is mentioned, you are now negotiating around that range. This has proven to be very effective for me.

<comment><USER3> You can't "anchor" a corporation. It doesn't have feelings or emotions -- it has a big table of pay ranges for people with X years of experience and/or education.

Your strategy works if you name a "negotiable" number that is higher than what you really want to make, but near the employer's upper bound for the position. Guess right, and you'll be negotiated down to a number that is mutually acceptable. Guess too low, and you'll be under-paid. Guess too high, and you'll be bounced without further negotiation. No matter what you do, the onus is on _you_ to guess correctly the numbers on the employer's sheet. That's why saying the first number is bad when you're negotiating with a more knowledgeable opponent.

If you've had a lot of success with the "anchoring" method, it's likely because you're not coming close to the upper bound of the pay range that your employers had pre-determined for their positions.

<comment><USER4> > Guess too high, and you'll be bounced without further negotiation.

This hasn't been my experience. My experience has been if they want you then they'll find a way to make it work.

If you don't fit in one grid then they'll just bump you up to the next grid.

<comment><USER3> Most HR people are staffing for positions. They don't have the authority or the incentive to "bump" you to another job (and most likely, another recruiter).

<comment><USER4> I'll have to take your word on it as far as what HR people will do.

The people I was thinking of were the team leads and managers.

These are the people I've dealt with and I am. We do, at least in every company I've worked for, have the ability to say I want this person, lets make it work wrt salary.

Now obviously this has limits; a developer can't come in and expect to be the highest paid person in an established company:). But if the person's demands fit anywhere on the salary grid, and their abilities match, then they are almost assured of getting hired at their desired salary.

We don't create a salary range when we create a position.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I've been hiring in the valley for the last 12 years, starting off in the interview chain at Netscape in '96, and moving into management at my current organization in 2003. Since I moved into management, and end each interview chain (with a candidate that I am the hiring manager for, and have a candidate that I think we will bring on board), I have always ended the interview with three questions: Do we have your application filled out, When can you start, and "what did you make at your last company."

"What did you make at your last company" is a valid question, and I know of no employer (at a Silicon Valley Company) that has instructed their employees to _not_ tell future employers what they make. It is, of course, considered good taste not to discuss compensation (Stock or Salary) with coworkers - but it's remarkable that there aren't typically company policies against that. (There are exceptions, I'm sure)

The thing is - you _need_ to color that answer. Don't just say "I made $150K/year as a Sysadmin at my prior company", it's fine to say "They were paying me $150K, but that was probably an outlier, and I'd be very comfortable making $115K." Or, "I was making $90K/year, but I'm looking to make $115K at my next engagement" - You probably know (through salary.com, your colleagues at other companies, etc..) what the market will pay for your skills - and that is the number you need to communicate during the interview, what you are _worth_. It is as destructive and harmful to a career to be paid more than you are worth, than it is to be paid less than you are worth.

The employees being overpaid are always the very first ones to be laid off, while their less skilled, but more appropriately compensated colleagues, are kept on. And, when you aren't being laid off, if you aren't delivering to your compensation level - you are never receiving positive performance reviews - even if you are performing at a much higher level than someone less well compensated - makes for a stressful work environment. (There is more to a job than money.)

Speaking only for myself, any candidate who starts going down the road of "I won't fill out employment application until we are interested in each other", "I won't discuss previous salary", "I won't provide references until there is an offer letter", etc... - just screams "Prima Donna"

That strategy might work if you are a very strategic hire, with very specialized skills, in a very tight job market - but in general, life is too short to have to manage those type of personalities, and I'd rather just take a pass and bring on someone who is willing to work _with_ me, and not _against_ me.

<comment><USER6> I'm not sure your post deserves to be downmodded -- it seems honest and on topic. I can see how one bit in particular could come off as slightly offensive:

'Speaking only for myself, any candidate who starts going down the road of "I won't fill out employment application until we are interested in each other", "I won't discuss previous salary", "I won't provide references until there is an offer letter", etc... - just screams "Prima Donna"'

This is a matter of trust. Salary history, a detailed employment history, and references are private. In the case of references it would be down right rude, to repay the people who are willing to vouch for you by spamming their contact info to anyone who asks. There is nothing unreasonable about withholding that info until both sides clearly serious about moving forward. If anything, I wonder what your cavalier attitude screams about you?

<comment><USER5> So, In a world of Networks that need to be built, customers that need to be deployed, ticketing systems that need to be improved, Post Mortems that need to be completed, and Network Architectures that need to be visioed - I simply don't have time/energy or, even the _ability_ to deal with someone who isn't going to throw themselves 100% onto the team. And that starts at the interview. Perhaps it's a reflection on how I perceived the employer/employee relationship.

The interview is a (very poor) proxy for what the work relationship will be like with the candidate in the future. Firing people is such a major, major hassle (particularly as you get bigger) - that unless the person is grossly incompetent or breaches company policy in an unambiguous manner, you typically have to wait for the next round of layoffs to get rid of them, even if they are difficult to work with.

What this means, is that you are looking for all the danger signs you can during an interview - and hiring someone who is going to "Stand up for their rights" or "as a matter of principle, not share detailed employee history", is fraught with risk. Both of those actions are entirely reasonable in and of themselves, but, for better or worse, they portend, for the potential employer, risk.

And I guess that's what I was trying to get across (from the perspective of an employer) - that rightly or wrongly, your actions in holding back information or challenging the employer in an interview, will be sending clear signals.

If you are a strategic hire, or if the job market is tight, or if you have some very, very specific skills - then you can probably afford to negotiate hardball, and be as difficult as you want - they aren't hiring you for the person that you are, but the things that you can do - but, in the 95% of the time a hiring situation is taking place, that is not the case.

[added: And as far as spamming references - ask anyone who hires; actually getting around to calling references of people you are _hiring_ is hard enough - I don't know if I have _ever_ contacted a reference unless a salary, start time, and position where pretty much agreed upon. And I'm better than most at getting around to that task. ]

<comment><USER7> Do you always tell the people you're interviewing what the maximum budgeted salary is for the position?

If the answer is no, then withholding their previous salary isn't hardball negotiation, it's simply negotiating on the same terms you are.

<comment><USER5> "maximum budgeted salary" is probably a more relevant concept to large 1000+ employee company. I typically only know what the _minimum_ budgeted salary is - that is, the lowest skilled employee I can justify bringing into a position. At the top end, sky is the limit - if you can justify $200K/year based on contribution, we'll be lucky to bring you on board.

And yes, I immediately tell all applicants at the conclusion of the interview process precisely what I think they can command in the peninsula economy, and at our company (65th percentile), based on what I know about their experience, the listed (and back door references), the local economy, and what our needs are. I don't negotiate salary - that's the number we offer them, and they can either take it or leave it. The information they provide on their salary, and the reason they are leaving their last position, just happen to be two pieces of information that feed into that final number.

The difference, of course, being that I know very little about how smart they are, and how much they can get things done, whereas the candidate knows almost _everything_ about themselves. And having the candidate hold back that information just makes my job more difficult, rather than easier. Certainly not what I'm looking for in an employee.

They should be able to walk into the interview and tell me to within $5K precisely what they should be making.

Remember - I'm a hiring manager, not an HR staffer. I see my job in life to maximize my employee's compensation, ensure that they are making more at my company than they would anywhere else. Every single day consists of me trying to increase what my employees make by giving them more training, more tools, more projects, more guidance, more time to focus on what interests them.

Also remember - it hurts an employee just as much to be overcompensated as it does to be undercompensated.

<comment><AUTHOR> _Also remember - it hurts an employee just as much to be overcompensated as it does to be undercompensated._

Why? Can you expand on that?

<comment><USER5> As a manager, when we do both our employee reviews as well as rankings, we always take into account what an employee is making. Ideally, an employee is performing slightly above their pay grade at all times, so their is a consistent track record of pay increases, punctuated every so often by significant changes in job responsibilities.

On a technical track, the typical valley growth pattern is from a low level helper, to a developer/technician, to an engineer/sysadmin, to an architect/Sr.Sysadmin.

But, from time to time, something gets out of whack, and either an employee was poorly interviewed, lied about their previous salary, or was grossly overpaid, and they come into a job with far higher expectations than they are going to be capable of delivering on.

Let's say that a solid Jr. Sysadmin, who's comfortable working around DNS zone files, configuring startup scripts, placing IP addresses on interfaces, and writing rudimentary scripts to automate all of this, should be making around $80K/year in the valley right now.

Now, let's say they got hired into a Sr. Sysadmin role, at $120K/year and, in their first couple months, were expected to architect/engineer/deploy a global loadbalancing DNS architecture, complete with performance and redundancy capability, documentation, etc...

This isn't unreasonable to expect of a $120K/year performer, so, when the individual failed to accomplish this, they are placed on a performance improvement plan, seen as an underperformer, and are taking up a valuable head count where someone else could have been performing those functions. They are mostly likely the first people to be laid off, and will be very unlikely to see a repeat of that salary, and will need to adjust to that fact. In a worst case scenario, it takes them 9-12 months to adjust to the fact that their next job will include a $40k/year pay decrease.

On the flip side, if they had come in as an $80K/year Sysadmin, and performed well, they would have been seen as an asset to the team, and would have continued to have enjoyed both career as well as salary growth. Ideally they manage to dodge layoffs, and then, 3-4 years later, they are making $120K/year based on merit.

<comment><USER8> Obviously it's a good thing if an employee gets what he's worth, and it's nice if you can actually accurately determine that.

But what's his previous salary got to do with what he's actually worth, now?

If you tell a potential employer what you're currently getting, doesn't it set an upper limit on how much you _can_ get from the new job?

If no one knows what you're getting now, you could get a 50% 'raise' when changing jobs, and still happen to be worth just that.

Is there any way that a potential employer knowing your current salary can work to your advantage as an employee? I seriously doubt it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> What a bizarre concept. Both HR and the applicant should have done market research and come to similar conclusions about the appropriate salary range. If the applicant is qualified, what on earth does it matter if he was lowballed by his previous employer? Similarly, if the applicant did his research properly and is still applying for the job, clearly he is indicating that he is prepared to take a pay cut.

Also, the self-righteousness of claiming "privileged information" is patently absurd. I'll tell anyone who asks what I make. More transparency gives power to employees. Companies want you to keep your salary a secret for their own reasons.

<comment><USER10> Because:

(a) HR's job is to hire you for the lowest possible price.

(b) By telling them your previous salary, you've conceded a great deal of information about what your negotiating floor is.

Two very basic rules of salary negotiation, which process _could not be further from market research_ :

* Don't name a number first (whatever number you give is the highest number that will occur during negotiation, even if their range went higher).

* Don't give up your "invoice price" --- the cost for them to move from your previous job without you taking a pay cut, or, worse, if you're unemployed, the price at which you'll think they're still doing you a favor.

<comment><USER6> You're first point strikes me as incredibly jaded. That may be the case at poorly run companies, but hasn't been my experience. As in most business relationships, the goal is not to screw the other party. The goal is to arrive at a win-win, where both sides can be happy.

Let's look at what I can expect if I screw someone over with the lowest possible salary:

* An employee who can justify doing the bare minimum it takes to get the job done, because after all, he's being paid the bare minimum

* Low morale. Can I not expect the individual to bitch about how poorly the company treats its employees?

* High turnover / no loyalty. How much money am I going to waste bringing people up to speed, only to see them hop to the next job as soon as possible? How can I expect to retain valuable employees when I don't treat them as valuable from the start?

It's a poorly run business that screws over it's employees, customers, and / or partners just because it _can_. I like to think most good business people recognize that that sort of approach does _not_ yield the best results over the long term.

Frankly, I have no concerns about revealing salary requirements or providing salary history. If a company doesn't treat me fairly during negotiations that's a huge signal that it's not the sort of company I want to work for.

<comment><USER10> I agree with all of the things you've just said in principle, but none of them apply in the real world. A company that loudly embraced just one of those bullet points you just gave would top the "best places to work" lists.

The problem isn't top-down corporate strategy; it's the concept of HR departments. When you:

* establish an entire business unit apart from the real work of a company,

* give it a mandate to meddle in the affairs of every other business unit in the company, and then

* measure its performance in raw numbers,

you get the systemic inefficiency almost every large company sees. It's not the people or their ideas that are messed up, it's the system.

However, apart from all that --- if you think what I'm saying is "jaded", try being a vendor to large companies sometime. Prospective employees deal with HR. Vendors deal with _Purchasing_. At least HR tries to pretend to be nice to you. Purchasing departments (for consultants, or for products) are overtly intended to screw you.

Finally, this isn't about whether you _feel_ like you're being treated fairly. It's about whether you're _best representing your interests_ during negotiation. The idea is not to lose leverage by conceding an advantage in information to your counterparty.

An HR person would be fired if they revealed the salary history of the last 20 people hired into your group in the company. Under no circumstances would a company ever reveal that kind of information. But you concede it willingly. Why?

<comment><USER6> I think our opinions are informed by very different "real world" experiences. I've worked mainly at small companies where HR had very little power over staffing or other important decisions. When I have had hiring responsibilities, I worked very hard to balance the interests of the company with the interests of the future employee. I care deeply about the happiness of both parties, because I think happy, successful employees are the foundation of a healthy, successful company.

It sounds like you've worked often (mostly?) with larger companies. Companies staffed with people who think life / business is somehow a game. That in order to win, someone else must lose.

I don't doubt that such companies exist. They may even represent a majority. But, not every company is run that way, and I hope you are fortunate enough to work for a _better_ sort of company someday.

<comment><USER10> You still shouldn't cough up your salary history to a startup hiring manager.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> The problem with this is that it's mainly a disadvantage to disclose your current salary if you're earning below market rates.

If you're earning above market rates you want to disclose your salary both to show the company how much your previous employer values you and also to get you a higher salary at the new company.

Hence the people who aren't disclosing their salary are implicitly informing the company that they're currently being paid below market rate. While it might not be true for everyone who refuses to disclose salary, it's true for a large enough percentage of applicants that it's safe to assume.

</comment><comment><USER12> It's always wise to put a number out first. As an employer, I try to do that. As an employee, I've also always done that.

It sets the dynamic and expectations. Obviously if it's crazy, it also provides an immediate opportunity to correct an unreasonable expectation.

<comment><USER13> Yeah, I've never understood all of this salary secrecy crap. Just tell them what you want to be paid! If it's way more than they can truly afford, at least you won't waste any more time.

If you know what the market is paying and are comfortable with a particular wage, what the hell does it matter if you're under everyone else?

<comment><USER14> If an hour of negotiation gives you $5k more money per year, you just got (effectively) $5k for an hour of work.

<comment><USER13> I'm not suggesting you don't negotiate. I'm suggesting you ask for that extra $5K up front.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> bold tags: just say no

</comment><comment><USER16> The concept here is great. But if those people laid off from Sun Micro and other companies divulge past salary in a tight job market, are they more likely to get a job over those who don't?

</comment><comment><USER17> Nick's Ask The Headhunter column was a great source of job hunting strategies when I first read him on EETimes (I think) back around 2001.

</comment><comment><USER18> could the author have used bold any more?

</comment><comment><USER19> [http://weblog.raganwald.com/2006/08/three-tips-for- getting-j...](http://weblog.raganwald.com/2006/08/three-tips-for-getting-job- through.html)

What a hypocrite! When he's interviewing, he asks for salary history. When you're interviewing him, he just says no.

</comment><comment><USER20> When I left finance, I hid my pay for the opposite reason of most people. I knew that most tech companies wouldn't match the absurd compensation I'd earned at a hedge fund, so there was no point in divulging it.

I'd never say, though, that I refuse to divulge pay based on a company policy. That makes the position seem weak. "I'm not telling you, because I'm not allowed." I'd make it clear that I'm not divulging it because I don't want to, and any company that wouldn't respect that desire on my part is a place where I wouldn't want to work.</comment>


GoogleIO easter eggs (and how I got them) - <AUTHOR> http://zakelfassi.com/2013/03/08/all-googleio-eater-eggs/ <comment><USER2> Google Chrome Developer tools has a nice "Pretty Print" feature. It makes the JavaScript readable without the need for an extension.

<http://imgur.com/e51Hk1o>

<comment><AUTHOR> Never noticed ! Thanks for the hint ;)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Can the Mods update the URL... it is <http://zakelfassi.com/2013/03/08/all- googleio-easter-eggs/> instead of <http://zakelfassi.com/2013/03/08/all- googleio-eater-eggs/>

<comment><USER4> And the title: "All the Google IO Easter Eggs (and How I Got Them)"

<comment><AUTHOR> I updated the title. The URL redirects to the new one.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Points to the author on that.

Personally I just did a depth first search.

</comment><comment><USER6> +10 points for introducing me to Sight. This is amazing.

</comment><comment><USER7> Wonder if there are any Easter eggs for free tickets...

</comment><comment><USER8> Very cool! thanks for sharing</comment>


AskHN: How do people write novels these days? - <AUTHOR> I typically write on paper, with a wonderfully smooth, permanent pen. Oddly, having no option to erase or edit results in generally improved writings.
I suppose it's phycological. Without the the ability to backtrack and edit earlier paragraphs, there's no temptation to optimization preemptively, and I can focus on larger concepts, rather than minute details. However, it does result in grammatical hell, and I normally resort to MS Word-based refinement before distribution of any kind.
Graduation is next week, and I've decided on a potentially-indefinite gap instead of college. With newly available free time, I plan to continue hacking away, but also to write at greater length. There's a story that I've begun developing, which I'd love to put into full form.
At this point, I've done a large amount of writing, but most of my experience is in short (<10 page) journal entries. I seriously doubt triple-digit page-counts are handled on straight paper, or in MS Word for that matter. That said, how are novels written these days? Are there any GitHub-like services that specialize in prose?
I dunno. Thoughts? <comment><USER2> I dunno, either, when has that ever stopped someone on the internet? Thoughts:

The critical efficiency issue in writing a novel is writing a novel. Selecting novel writing software is not writing a novel any more than selecting novel writing shoes is and if you're like me shoe shopping might be more fun.

Yet it [software shopping | shoe shopping, take your pick] is distinctly not writing a novel. On the other hand, pen and paper in hand, you could have fifteen or twenty wads of paper in the trashcan in a couple of hours and maybe one or two in...what's the best file folder for writing a novel? I best find the right file folders to properly keep the pages I haven't written once I write them and this box of 100 folders shows that I am serious about my writing even though they are all empty].

 _War and Peace_ was written without computers or Google. I once had a boss who wrote his business letters in Lotus 123. It was better than DOS edlin. Tolstoy might have killed to get vim but only because Org-mode had not been invented.

The serious point is that software has a learning curve, and learning novel writing software is not writing a novel either. What's the best HN comment writing software? Certainly not the browser on my touch screen phone, but sometimes I use it anyway. But not for this comment.

Consider turning on noprocrast.

Good luck, have fun.

</comment><comment><USER3> If you're going to use a program, you need to be _very_ familiar with it. You can't have to think about driving the program, so that you can think about the words you're trying to put together. If you have to shift your thoughts to "how do I do this in this program", you've broken your writing train of thought.

For the same reason, you also need to be a touch typist.

On the other hand, writing on paper... can you type faster than you can write longhand? Do you dislike having to write by hand? If that's breaking your train of thought, then it's not the answer either.

Use whatever you have to think about least, moment by moment, as you use it. Writing is hard enough without being distracted by your tools.

</comment><comment><USER4> I have heard a lot of writers say good things about Scrivener: [http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener.php](http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener.php)

I have only just started using it myself, but i am liking it so far.

</comment><comment><USER5> I'm a fan of Scrivener for organizing a novel. I collect snippets of prose, research, character studies, motifs, meta thoughts on where I'm going, the actual draft in Scrivener's binders and folders.

For actual writing, I find that my best prose comes from putting pen on paper and using the transcription as an excuse to edit. I've thought about this a lot, and I think the reason is that going analog removes so many temptations to get online to check some detail and then wasting 15 minutes by not writing.

With software, I think it is mandatory that you isolate yourself, out of WiFi range (or at least with WiFi turned off) and to stare at blank pages long enough to let the words flow.

</comment><comment><USER6> I've heard good things about Leanpub[1], which recently announced Github integration[2] as an option alongside Dropbox and web-only.

[1] [http://leanpub.com/](http://leanpub.com/)

[2] [http://blog.leanpub.com/2014/04/github- integration.html](http://blog.leanpub.com/2014/04/github-integration.html)

There's also Gitbook[3] which encourages you to write in Markdown using the Git/GitHub workflow. They did a Show HN recently[4].

[3] [http://www.gitbook.io/](http://www.gitbook.io/)

[4] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7524956](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7524956)

</comment><comment><USER7> I have written two novels (unpublished) and about to start a third.

These days I use a minimal writing app called iA Writer. The file is saved to DropBox automatically and I also push commits to GitHub everyday as a way to keep track of revision history. A nice clean system that provides backups and no distractions from the writing itself.

When I am working on a novel I do a few things that help me immensely to keep the momentum going, which is really important:

1) I don't revise anything as I go. 2) I have a min/max daily word quota. 3) I write at a specific time each night (for routine).

Before I discovered those practices I started so many writing projects I never completed.

Good luck to you!

</comment><comment><USER8> George RR Martin uses Wordstar, a dos based word processor:

[http://grrm.livejournal.com/198534.html?thread=12461446#t124...](http://grrm.livejournal.com/198534.html?thread=12461446#t12461446)

</comment><comment><USER9> Whatever works for writers...

In the 90s early 2000s I knew a couple who were pretty set on their Commodore 64/printer setup, one had a particular daisywheel printer she liked and asked me a couple times to help look for parts.

From reading many writers don't like to change their writing medium, it could break their "flow" having to deal with new things to handle other than putting the right words out.

So even today, if a writer gets into their zone while plying on a 50s manual typewriter, there's a good chance that typewriter will be under their hands for the rest of their career.

</comment><comment><USER10> I think you are productive on pen and paper mostly because there is no internet connection. (Probably why GRRM is so productive on an old Wordstar).

Whatever you use, just disable wi-fi before starting.

Scrivener also focuses you on a process. You can think about characters, locations, events and how they fit together in word or notepad if you want.

</comment><comment><USER11> I like Scrivener but tend to work in hand-written bursts of a few pages which then get typed up and re-arranged in software.

I always think the formatting should come way after the content is nailed down. Starting with a blank Word doc it's tempting to waste time trying to format whilst writing.

</comment><comment><USER12> What is HM? hacker moose? :)

IMO writing varies widely among people, usually across different media and different categories. Regardless of purpose, feedback seems to help a lot. I've seen textbooks on Github but not novels. A google search reveals promising results.

<comment><USER13> Hacker's Musings.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> i've developed a system. should be out "real soon now".

but if you want something that's been out for a while, and has been shaken down pretty well, try leanpub.com.

there's also pressbooks.com, and penflip.com, and more.

-bowerbird

</comment><comment><USER15> I've had some success using Q10 on windows and leanpub.com on the web.

</comment><comment><USER16> cut and paste</comment>


Fear And Loathing OF Silicon Valley - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/18/no-sympathy-for-the-devil/

<comment><USER2> OK. I know it's the usual fluff-quest, the usual navel-gazing. TechCrunch raised to the power of TechCrunch. Gotta write your 500 words. I get it. You wake up and think:

"Lots of people are discussing X, Y and Z and I can't think of anything to write today. I guess I'll write about how people are writing about X, Y and Z and slap a thick sauce of world-weary ennui on top to hide that the fish has turned."

But I must regretfully derail the entire conversation, because I am unable to let this one aside pass without comment:

> _But they also let people numb emotional pain rather than face it, quiet > their children rather than teach them._

Let's just leave the psychiatry to the psychiatrists, shall we? And admit to ourselves that perhaps watching _Garden State_ isn't a substitute for earning a medical degree _and_ a psychology degree _and_ doing research _and_ taking supervised placements.

Looking down on pharmaceutical treatments for depression and ADHD because it's fashionable to hate Big Pharma is more than annoying. It is harmful because it perpetuates inaccurate stereotypes about the treatability of difficult, potentially life-threatening illnesses.

Please, all holders of poetic license. Stop doing taking this rhetorical shortcut. You are hurting people.</comment>


Open Payments – search your doctor's pharmaceutical payments - <AUTHOR> http://openpaymentsdata.cms.gov/

<comment><USER2> Can someone in the know please explain the importance of this?

<comment><USER3> It's a federal, searchable database to see which companies have given money to medical/dental (and other?) providers. The idea being to allow people to understand that there could be influence from that company on the provider.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: What's the best writing you've ever seen online? - <AUTHOR> If you had to point to one thing as "Something Everyone Else Should Read", what would it be, and why? <comment><USER2> None of these are to be taken super seriously, but they are nonetheless very brain tickling.

Three Worlds Collide

[http://robinhanson.typepad.com/files/three-worlds- collide.pd...](http://robinhanson.typepad.com/files/three-worlds-collide.pdf)

The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect

[http://localroger.com/prime- intellect/mopiall.html](http://localroger.com/prime-intellect/mopiall.html)

The Last Question

[http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html](http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html)

The Last Answer

[http://www.thrivenotes.com/the-last-answer/](http://www.thrivenotes.com/the- last-answer/)

Let's Help Germinate This Seed

[http://www.thrivenotes.com/lets-help-germinate-this- seed/](http://www.thrivenotes.com/lets-help-germinate-this-seed/)

The Egg

[http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html](http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html)

<comment><USER3> It seems your link for The Last Question is dead, which is a shame because it's surely my favorite out of the ones you listed.

An alternate mirror can be had here: [http://www.thrivenotes.com/the-last- question/](http://www.thrivenotes.com/the-last-question/)

<comment><USER2> Good call. I just yanked this comment from an old reddit comment I made on a similar post.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> The first thing which came to mind is Spiderweb Software's role playing video games. I've been playing them since the 90s. On the surface they're just another turn-based isometric CRPG, but once you start playing, you're drawn into an excellently written tale of intrigue and conflict and fictional politics which is never boring. For me, the writing is just as good as a book which cannot be put down.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I'll start. My personal submission is The Information: How the internet gets inside us, by Adam Gopnik, for The New Yorker.

When I read this piece I got overwhelmed with jealousy at the this guy's ability to navigate ideas. It encapsulates all the perennial arguments for and against technology, with most if not all of its nuance, and I finished it feeling "full" and more clear-headed, which is something I rarely encounter when reading online.

[http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2011/02/14/110...](http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2011/02/14/110214crat_atlarge_gopnik)

</comment><comment><USER5> George Orwell, "Politics and the English Language," 1946

While it's nothing new, it offers context into writing well that is as sophisticated and thought provoking as i've ever seen. English/American prose have changed dramatically in the last century and it's important to understand why.

[https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm](https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm)

<comment><AUTHOR> Oh wow, this was precisely the sort of thing I'm looking for. Thank you so much!

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> [http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/ghost.html](http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/ghost.html)

</comment><comment><USER7> __why's guide to ruby. It's like if Vonnegut was a programmer.</comment>


The Future of Kenai.com (it lives on java.net) - <AUTHOR> http://blogs.sun.com/projectkenai/entry/the_future_of_kenai_com?not_dup

<comment><AUTHOR> They reused the URL from their closing announcement (old discussion here: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1095424> ) presumably to correct the "wrong impression" people might have got from the old text.

What are these people playing at?

<comment><USER2> Airbrushing their previously stated decision to terminate with extreme prejudice the domain Kenai.com and all non-Sun projects hosted on it? (Which got a lot of people upset if for no other reason than that Kenai had Netbeans support you couldn't find elsewhere; read the earlier comments, which they didn't touch).

They told everyone they had to evacuate by a date certain (end of March as I recall), that the tools to do so were incomplete but that they were working on them, etc. etc.

Their old position was unequivocal: if you don't work for Sun evacuate. And from the Sun Maxine project (a metacircular JVM) I know this was also going to be disruptive for internal Sun project.

I guess they got so much push back they're now doing something semi-smart (changing the terrible brand of kenai.com (what does that mean???) to java.net).

I can live with that, I don't expect the merger to be entirely smooth, but if they can reverse stupid initial decisions (however they decide to save face), it's a _very_ good sign.</comment></comment>


Show HN: Plainflow – simple behavior-based customer journeys for SaaS - <AUTHOR> https://www.plainflow.com/ <comment><AUTHOR> HN, we built a simple way for SaaS companies visually create behavioral based customer journeys.

Some examples:

\- Send specific emails when certain products events are performed

\- Send a Slack alert to your #customer-success team when there is a new churn-risk customer (low product usage)

\- Send a Slack message to your #sales team when there's a new demo request event

Here's a public example (no need to signup) [https://app.plainflow.com/workflows/recipe-slack- notificatio...](https://app.plainflow.com/workflows/recipe-slack-notification- for-churn-risk-customers)</comment>


Process: Aesthetic Engine 2 – An art project in ClojureScript - <AUTHOR> http://brutalism.rs/post/process-aesthetic-engine-2/ <comment><USER2> Thank you for this. In your note on tools, I notice this line:

"I have chosen an obscure toolchain which lulled me with its elegance and iteration speed, while the actual runtime performance and capabilities suffered."

This always seems to be the faustian bargain, when going into the deep deep world of graphics programming and generative art. Not that these tradeoffs are unique, far from it, but it is exquisitely obvious and painful in this discipline. I commend the effort.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you. I am yet to focus my efforts on a specific toolchain, so that I can start giving back to the community via libraries. So far, I've mostly done a project or two on any given toolchain before I decided to switch. The most I've done in this regard has been my assorted collection of helpers for Unity – [https://github.com/BRUTALISM/Alat](https://github.com/BRUTALISM/Alat)

But more than that (and this is mainly the reason I'm writing these things), I'd like to raise awareness of the process of creating meaningful procedural art. I'm seeing lots of people visualizing very simple mathematical transformations and settling there, which is a shame really. Maybe because the discipline is so technically demanding, I'm not sure.</comment></comment>


Show HN: RDPY–MITM Proxy, Honeypot, Play with Microsoft Remote Desktop Protocol - <AUTHOR> http://lc.cx/LhY

<comment><USER2> Short URL points to [https://github.com/citronneur/rdpy/](https://github.com/citronneur/rdpy/).</comment>


YouTube livestream Bitcoin scams getting out of control - <AUTHOR> https://support.google.com/youtube/thread/45628868?hl=en <comment><AUTHOR> Example here, they have a ton of these already with different people on them

[https://youtu.be/eNaT3_mpGt4](https://youtu.be/eNaT3_mpGt4)</comment>


Post-Agile: A Summary - <AUTHOR> https://riskfirst.org/Post-Agile <comment><AUTHOR> It seems to me that the buy-in isn't so much about hype-cycles, but just wanting to say the right things to get developers to sign on and work.

So many things in life are about pulling the wool over the eyes of the young and idealistic.

Agile seems to have turned into one of them.</comment>


FOIA request for NROL-39 surveillance satellite logo - <AUTHOR> https://twitter.com/palewire/status/1181611182882353152 <comment> deep-root From a previous FOIA request[1] explaining the logo:

 _" The secret origin of the patch is initially from [redacted] where the problem during the test stage in the thermal vacuum was traced to a large piece of cabling called an octopus harness. The running joke for the crew was that the octopus harness had taken over the world."_

[1] [http://www.paglen.com/download/octopus.pdf](http://www.paglen.com/download/octopus.pdf)

<comment><USER2> Apparently some NRO folks got smacked down on another mission when they tried to use a quote from the Ricky Bobbie movie as the slogan "If you ain't first, you're last"

[https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of- america-10/rec...](https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of- america-10/records-concerning-the-nrol-76-logo-37622/#file-154942)

<comment><USER3> Ha, yup you're right! They even tried to preemptively get around that by putting it in Latin, but that failed.

Quote:

I have the solution: "si non primus es novissimi". It is Latin and roughly translates to "If you ain't first, you're last" according to Google Translator. Someone can check this translation, but it should solve the copyright issue since Ricky Bobby doesn't speak latin. It will also be more mysterious for the average, non-latin literate observer.

This Latin approach has worked before and allowed one of my previous organizations to have the slogan "Doing God's work with other people's money" fly right through the approval process.

<comment><USER4> > It is Latin and roughly translates to "If you ain't first, you're last" > according to Google Translator.

Google translate is not up to the task of translating more than an isolated word without serious errors. I can't actually check your translation, but I can point out some issues:

\- The verb, es, and the word "first", primus, are both singular. They match! And they're supposed to. But novissimi is plural. In the sentence as given, novissimi plays no role, much like the "cabbage" in the sentence "this sentence contains cabbage six words".

\- Novissimi means, literally, "newest". (Heck, it doesn't just mean "newest", the two words are etymologically identical.) It does metaphorically refer to the rear of something, since the back of the army is where the least experienced (newest) troops get placed. A better word for "last" would probably be postremus, meaning literally "last" and metaphorically "worst".

\- There's only one verb. (Compare "if you're not first, you're last".) That isn't the problem in Latin that it would be in English, but I flag it because the final two issues require careful thinking about what verb to use where...

\- This is a conditional statement using a present indicative verb. The strong implication is present that, as described, you _really aren 't_ first. If the statement was meant to be hypothetical or counterfactual, you'd probably use subjunctive mood.

\- I cannot guarantee that the _concept_ "to be first" is best expressed by combining the verb "to be" with the adjective "first", as you've done here. It's quite possible that there's a verb that describes winning a race or a competition or whatever, and that verb would be a more idiomatic way of expressing this meaning. I have no knowledge of whether that's actually true, but it's the kind of thing that comes up a lot when you're trying to translate between languages. (This sort of thing is why it's much safer to translate things _into_ your native language than _out of_ your native language, even if you have near-perfect command of the other language.) English is very free with "be + adjective" constructions; many languages are more prone to specialized verbs. (Compare the Latin verb rubere, "to be red". Expressing the concept as _ruber esse_ , "to be" \+ "red (adj.)" is an error.)

<comment><USER2> Interestingly, I just plugged it into Google Translate and got a somewhat different translation that makes more sense to me (granted my Latin is a bit rusty):

si non prius, postremo te

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> It may be sinister, but its a damn fine design (interesting, and intimidating in a thriller movie kind of way), isn't it? Beats the crap out of boring bureaucracy.

Wonder what other cool logos / unit patches / etc I am not aware of.

<comment><USER6> Nuke commands have had some good ones throughout the years. Some funny, but mostly just extremely eerie.

Death wears bunny slippers:

[https://media.wired.com/photos/5932c01d95879f6d0c009e10/mast...](https://media.wired.com/photos/5932c01d95879f6d0c009e10/master/pass/patch_bunny_slippers.jpg)

Politically incorrect:

[https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/bLwAAOSwaEhZHz9u/s-l300.jpg](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/bLwAAOSwaEhZHz9u/s-l300.jpg)

Satisfaction guaranteed:

[https://encrypted- tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTiB52Y...](https://encrypted- tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTiB52Y-HTES5GCiydIdD5tssV7hFdlT2lT9WRYOAca_24H-Xrx-g)

Central heating:

[https://www.airforcecollectables.com/images/USAF%20Patch%20S...](https://www.airforcecollectables.com/images/USAF%20Patch%20SAC%20337%20Bomb%20Squadron%20B%201B%20WPCH%20Warsaw%20Pact%20Central%20Heating%20Nuclear%20Dyess%20AFB%20PI.jpg)

<comment><USER7> Some of those are great, especially the Warsaw Pact Central Heating one.

It's always a bit reassuring to know that dark humor is allowed to exist somewhere within these faceless organizations. They're still allowed to be human. Being a secret agency and protected from the Twitter brigades always helps!

<comment><USER8> > They're still allowed to be human.

Are they, and are they, by extension, allowed to see "the enemy" as humans, too, or are these stickers part of the rituals of compensation?

> _[Hobbes] foresaw the necessary idolatry of power itself by this new human > type, that he would be flattered at being called a power-thirsty animal, > although actually society would force him to surrender all his natural > forces, his virtues and his vices, and would make him the poor meek little > fellow who has not even the right to rise against tyranny, and who, far from > striving for power, submits to any existing government and does not stir > even when his best friend falls an innocent victim to an incomprehensible > raison d 'etat._

\-- Hannah Arendt

In light of that, "tough and mischievous", variations of which 99% of these patches seem to be, doesn't have quite the luster. On the extreme end we have stuff like calling children "fun-sized terrorists", which is _clearly_ not dark humor that expresses humanity, but cartoonish dehumanization.

> protected from the Twitter brigades

Covering one's ears further removes any semblance of luster.

<comment><USER9> >In light of that, "tough and mischievous", variations of which 99% of these patches seem to be, doesn't have quite the luster. On the extreme end we have stuff like calling children "fun-sized terrorists", which is clearly not dark humor that expresses humanity, but cartoonish dehumanization.

yes, i suppose when you bring up something totally unrelated to the subject at hand spoken in a different context by unconnected people, it does seem pretty bad

<comment><USER8> It's not "totally unrelated" or "unconnected", it's the container these stickers are made in. You failing to see that doesn't change it, and "seems pretty bad" is just saying nothing.

<comment><USER9> i think what we can all agree on here is that you are morally superior to the funny patch slogan people

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Wow nice one. What a logo.

I am stopping by to mention Trevor Paglen's work who helps uncover and popularize some of this junk. You can watch his full presentation "Seeing The Secret State: Six Landscapes"[0] for background on this unclassified unit patch as well as surprising photos and TLEs and much, much more.

What a time we live in!

0: [https://media.ccc.de/v/30C3_-_5604_-_en_- _saal_1_-_201312282...](https://media.ccc.de/v/30C3_-_5604_-_en_- _saal_1_-_201312282300_-_seeing_the_secret_state_six_landscapes_- _trevor_paglen)

</comment><comment><USER11> My dad worked at the Skunk Works for 20 years, and Northrop Grumman for almost as long. He has a billion of these mission patches in boxes and/or framed in his home office. I love them. Wish there was a big online repo of them to browse.

<comment> et-al Sounds like you could start one!

<comment><USER12> many of the patches themselves will be classified, his dad could get into trouble if they were documented.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> These logos are awesome! I've seen lots of military and IC logos, and they all have relatively similar art styles. Who actually draws these things? Are these by ordinary members of the community who work on the project, or is there an art department that works on these?

</comment><comment><USER14> It baffles me that in order to request a file from some database you need to write a letter to a person who then responds back after a month. Did you end up incurring fees of $48/h for searching and per-page fees as well? I thought that a major benefit of the internet is that we don't have to do this anymore.

<comment> kube-system If you can write a program that can automate this, then you're a better programmer than most of us.

[https://www.justice.gov/oip/blog/foia-update-freedom- informa...](https://www.justice.gov/oip/blog/foia-update-freedom-information- act-5-usc-sect-552-amended-public-law-no-104-231-110-stat)

<comment><USER9> the request end is automated at least: [https://www.muckrock.com/foi/create/](https://www.muckrock.com/foi/create/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I don't quite have the time to find them right now, but there was a series of quite hilarious internal emails that were sort of exasperated about how there should never be a repeat of the octopus logo from now on

<comment><USER16> You may be referring to the document linked by 'Rebelgecko here: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21217671](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21217671). On page 17, I found the following quote from a chain of e-mails:

"[redacted] said after the octopus logo, the White House threatened to require presidential approval if the NRO approved any more menacing logos."

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> I can't be the only one who cringed at the "release the swag" comment. You won't catch me dead wearing/carrying something with something spy agency- related on it.

<comment><AUTHOR> The parodies are pretty funny:

[https://twitter.com/sli/status/1181736342063108096](https://twitter.com/sli/status/1181736342063108096)

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Is there a site with all of the available logos? Surely, someone is aggregating these. Appreciate the already linked logos!

<comment><AUTHOR> There appears to be a handful of NROL logos (and related documentation) FOIAed on Muckrock: [https://www.muckrock.com/search/?q=nrol](https://www.muckrock.com/search/?q=nrol)

edit: Check out the wikipedia list of NROL launches [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRO_launches](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRO_launches)

<comment><USER19> A handful of those look like they're asking for memes.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Batman (1966), Joker, Penguin and Catwoman were part of the "United Underworld"... always wanted to get this logo [1] on a t-shirt but never got it cleaned up enough to scale.

[1] [https://i.imgur.com/KP6Gf7e.png](https://i.imgur.com/KP6Gf7e.png)

</comment><comment><USER21> _" The enemy has nowhere to hide"_

Love the logo, but damn if that isn't ominous and intimidating.

</comment><comment><USER22> Interesting that the PDF was created 2019-01-03 10:34:05 and modified 2019-10-04 10:35:22, assuming the metadata is in any way accurate, considering that NROL-39 was launched in 2013.

</comment><comment><USER23> Reminds me of the book "I Could Tell You but Then You Would Have to Be Destroyed by Me". It's all about various patches from secret projects.

</comment><comment><USER24> Damn, I'm totally having this logo professionally printed and framed.

</comment><comment><USER25> Krakens on globes. I still find the similarity to the propaganda drawing from a 1938 Stürmer (Nazi propaganda publication) unsettling: see e.g. "World domination" section at [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitic_canard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitic_canard). Sure, it's been used before as well, but it's what I feel reminded of. In many different classes in (German) school we talked quite a lot about Nazi Germany and propaganda, where we also talked about this image and all the messages it transport. A similar logo was also used in the ACTA protests 2010 and found itself criticized for its similarity, e.g. [https://taz.de/!5101105/](https://taz.de/!5101105/).

Apart from that, thanks for this FOIA request! It's great that the original vector graphics are now available.

<comment><USER26> It should be noted that there's an extensive history[0] of octopi being used in propaganda posters dating back to 1877, depicting countries such as: Russia/USSR, England/Britain, Prussia/Germany, Japan, America (by both the Nazis and various communists), not to mention more abstract things like imperialism, landlordism, oil companies, company directors, etc. The Nazis didn't even coin the depiction of Jews as octopi, as there's a late 19th century example depicting the Rothschild family as such[1]. Hell, the same year as the crude and anti-semitic Nazi example you have Americans publishing books calling Hitler an octopus in both title and artwork.[2]

It's understandable that a German class on Nazi propaganda would focus on the anti-semitic element, and I sympathise with those that are going to have a stronger emotional reaction to such images, but it's important to remember that it's minority of anti-semitic examples compared to numerous examples without such connotations. Perhaps especially so when it's an org depicting itself as the octopus.

[0] [https://hyperallergic.com/375900/the-map-octopus-a- propagand...](https://hyperallergic.com/375900/the-map-octopus-a-propaganda- motif-of-spreading-evil/)

[1] [https://atlanticsentinel.com/2017/08/the-octopus-in- politica...](https://atlanticsentinel.com/2017/08/the-octopus-in-political- cartoons/)

[2] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/120380035@N05/13567332414](https://www.flickr.com/photos/120380035@N05/13567332414)

<comment><USER25> Thanks for links, there were quite a few images I didn't know. I was certainly aware of uses before the Nazis, but what I tried to say was this cartoon in particular has a similar composition and overall layout. Which is probably the main reason I felt reminded of this particular image.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Note that this is nothing new. The logo was already public.

<comment><USER28> Was the vector version public?

<comment><USER29> no

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Shoutout to Muckrock for powering that FOIA request!

</comment><comment><USER31> Can we get one of the alien logos next?</comment>


An API for your personal finances - <AUTHOR> https://ironmoney.com/api/

<comment><USER2> If this was an open-source project, it might be interesting. As it is, users have no idea what the core code is doing, or what it might do in the future.

There has never been a more eloquent argument in favor of open-source than a closed-source project like this one, that tries to portray itself as a harmless, useful library for everyman.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hm, interesting. I've thought about making Iron Money open-source, but I've never thought of a really compelling argument. Other than the transparency of what's going on behind the scenes, what makes for an eloquent argument for making it open-source?

<comment><USER2> > Other than the transparency of what's going on behind the scenes, what makes > for an eloquent argument for making it open-source?

First argument: people will be willing to use it. Consider what you're offering -- a closed-source library that manages people's financial transactions. You may or may not be surprised to hear that people are reluctant to trust closed-source libraries that process financial transactions, account details, and patterns of economic behavior.

Second argument: open-source libraries are more likely to be successfully scrutinized for security flaws, and repaired in advance of exploitation. An irony of open-source is that over time it becomes more secure, not less, indeed one often-heard explanation for Windows' notorious insecurity is that it is closed-source, so the first revelation of a vulnerability is, not when errors are noticed by routine scans of source code, but when they're exploited in the wild.

Third argument: people will be able to see how your code works. This isn't a license to steal, it's a way for people to find out if your code meets their needs and behaves as they expect (or as accounting standards require).

I once debugged an accounting package that had a weird error -- two runs on the same transaction database never produced the same outcome. After a lot of back and forth, I got the developer to open the source, and discovered that his way of rounding off to the nearest penny was to generate a random binary number -- if 0, round down, if 1, round up. It was breathtakingly stupid, and we would never have solved it without seeing the source.

Fourth argument -- you can't arbitrarily shut down users of your library. An open-source library survives the extinction of its source or a change in policy. A closed-source library can't do that in any meaningful sense.

That should do. :)

<comment><USER3> "people are reluctant to trust closed-source libraries that process financial transactions, account details, and patterns of economic behavior."

Lots of people trust closed source _applications_ though. QuickBooks, Turbotax ..

Your point is still valid, though I don't know what the exact differences between Iron Money and (say QuickBooks) are.

<comment><USER2> > Lots of people trust closed source applications though. QuickBooks, Turbotax > ...

No, they don't _trust_ them, they use them because they have no choice. And the problems caused by Intuit's closed-source business model are legion:

[http://www.consumeraffairs.com/computers/intuit_turbotax.htm...](http://www.consumeraffairs.com/computers/intuit_turbotax.html)

The above sounds like a recitation of distrust, not trust.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Linux Seeing Kernel GPU Driver Support for Matrox G200 Graphics Cards - <AUTHOR> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Matrox-G200-DRM-Driver <comment><USER2> That's amusing. Linux is great :D</comment>


[Ask HN] How To Prepare For Google/Facebook System Interview? - <AUTHOR> I am talking about Linux/Unix based system internals interview. Currently, I am focusing on two parts.
1. Theoretical Questions - Like the process, mmu, CPU etc. 2. Troubleshooting Questions - how does ls work?, Unable to create new process etc.
Can someone recommend me any books or blogs to prepare for my interview? Currently, I am following Robert Love's Linux Kernel Development book. <comment><USER2> Textbook you should read: Computer Systems: a Programmer's Perspective, 3rd edition

[http://csapp.cs.cmu.edu/](http://csapp.cs.cmu.edu/)

</comment><comment><USER3> Grokking the System Design Interview [1] is also a useful resource. Good luck in your preps.

[1] [https://www.educative.io/collection/5668639101419520/5649050...](https://www.educative.io/collection/5668639101419520/5649050225344512)

<comment><AUTHOR> This is not a question for system design interview. I am talking about systems. The interview-based on Linux/Unix Systems internals.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I recommend going through IntervieBit System Design Course:

[https://www.interviewbit.com/courses/system- design/](https://www.interviewbit.com/courses/system-design/)

<comment><AUTHOR> Please read the question properly before writing your answers.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I have heard good comments about Cracking the Coding Interview

<comment><AUTHOR> "Cracking the Coding Interview" The name itself suggesting a book to prepare for coding interviews. I clearly mentioned System Interview.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> YouTube, there are a bunch of channels with actual examples now.

<comment><USER7> Any specific ones in mind?</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Can we get funded by Y Combinator without a prototype? - <AUTHOR> We have a team and an idea but no prototype (it's a hardware company and we don't have the money to build a prototype) can we apply for YC this way? If not, how should we raise funds for our prototype? <comment><USER2> It's very common for YC-funded hardware companies not to have a working prototype. But I hope you and your team are working on something! Working out the details of the design, and showing sketches to customers doesn't require money.

</comment><comment><USER3> "Whenever someone tells me that they can't figure out how to raise the first $25,000 they need to get their company started I stand up, walk over to the cereal box, and tell this story. It is a story of pure unadulterated hustle. And I love it."

[https://avc.com/2011/03/airbnb/](https://avc.com/2011/03/airbnb/)

Edit: if you were to create something really capital intensive like rockets, Boom is a great story for that. [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11346947](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11346947)</comment>