Ask HN: What Do You Use for Linux Full Disk Crypto? - <AUTHOR> What do you use to manage Linux full disk encryption centrally (like BitLocker and FileVault let you do)?<p>I know you can do FDE with LUKS but would prefer a more enterprise solution where I can store a recovery key centrally that a user can't remove. <comment><USER2> What problem are you trying to prevent?

\- A novice user fatfingering `cryptsetup luksRemoveKey`? Sounds extremely unlikely.

\- A determined user trying to deliberately destroy information? A lot of things are easier, e.g. `dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda` to `shred important_document.pdf`.

The only thing that would protect against most accidental-destruction scenarios is not giving the users root access, and then you don't have to worry about users removing LUKS keys anyway.

</comment><comment><USER3> I'm using LUKS, with disks being mounted with crypttab.

The keys for the drives are stored on an encrypted USB key, and the key for the encrypted USB key is stored on the root SSD.

I wanted something where i could boot unattended, and at the same time i wanted the possibility to destroy the keys and render the disks useless.

I have an encrypted backup of the keys, stored outside of the encrypted disk arrays.

</comment><comment><USER4> During installation, I tick the box that says 'full disk encryption'.

<comment><USER5> Which distro are you using? The last I tried with Ubuntu, it "just didn't work", i.e. failed with very unhelpful error message.

Bonus points if it's possible to install to a partition in existing FDE container (saves a /home backup-restore external drive round trip).

<comment><USER6> Works well for me on Ubuntu 18.04 and 18.10

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> >what do you use

luks

>what do you use to manage

cryptsetup

>prefer a more enterprise solution...

You have exotic needs, I doubt there is any open source solution that fits, you have to write your own.

You can start by reading this arch page: [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/dm- crypt/System_configu...](https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/dm- crypt/System_configuration)

</comment><comment><USER8> (very soon) ZFS! It's happening: [https://github.com/zfsonlinux/zfs/releases](https://github.com/zfsonlinux/zfs/releases)

The PR started 3 years ago: [https://github.com/zfsonlinux/zfs/pull/4329](https://github.com/zfsonlinux/zfs/pull/4329)

<comment><USER9> Can you explain to me why i should use zfs instead of ext4?

<comment><USER10> You can compare ZFS to BTRFS, Ext4FS belongs to the late 90s. Comparing ZFS to Ext4 is like comparing a Pentium 100 Mhz to a Quad Core, asking why would someone want to use the quad core.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> LUKS with TPM2-backed key: [https://github.com/electrickite/luks- tpm2](https://github.com/electrickite/luks-tpm2)

</comment><comment><USER12> LUKS + Clevis and Tang does all that you want. [http://www.admin- magazine.com/Archive/2018/43/Automatic-data...](http://www.admin- magazine.com/Archive/2018/43/Automatic-data-encryption-and-decryption-with- Clevis-and-Tang) There's no way to prevent a determined user with root access from removing a key, except maybe some kind of locked down trusted boot scenario which will undoubtedly create more problems than it solves.

<comment><USER3> FDE doesn't protect in case someone breaks in.

Its purpose is to protect data at rest, and if you keep it available in its unencrypted form, you're not gaining anything from it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> LUKS can use a central recovery key.

Regular users can't mess with LUKS settings.

<comment><USER14> +1

> a more enterprise solution where I can store a recovery key centrally that a > user can't remove.

The enterprise solution is to not give users administrative privs.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> I have a yubikey, and this[0] tutorial has been open in a browser tab for I swear four months or more. I just haven't summoned the guts to do it -- a voice in my head keeps whispering "you'll brick your laptop, you'll brick your laptop..."

[0] [https://github.com/agherzan/yubikey-full-disk- encryption](https://github.com/agherzan/yubikey-full-disk-encryption)

</comment><comment><USER16> You can probably use luksHeaderBackup and luksHeaderRestore to make sure your recovery key will always work with the volume. Although I've never tried it so don't take my word for it, it should be pretty easy for you to try out.

Not that it will prevent any dedicated user with root rights from locking you out of the data if they wish to. It just raises friction from a simple luksRemoveKey

</comment><comment><USER17> This article gives a good overview of the options and potential threats: [https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Full_Disk_Encryption_and_Encrypt...](https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Full_Disk_Encryption_and_Encrypted_Images)

Use whonix itself and read the privacy guides in its wiki if you are concerned with privacy beyond FDE.

</comment><comment><USER18> Actually, this poses a question. I have disk encryption enabled on my laptop.

Now I want to put in a larger hard drive and clone the current drive on to it. Without disk encryption I could use clonezilla or other tools. With disk encryption enabled I can't seem to do anything to clone.

What is a solution?

<comment><USER19> Why would it matter whether the disk is encrypted? No clue what clonezilla is or does, but dd certainly doesn't care whether a partition you are copying is encrypted.

<comment><USER20> I think clonezilla uses partition specific tools for copying. You could dd to a new drive, but you would not be able to enlarge the partition. You would need to create a larger partition manually an copy data.

You might be able to do a fresh install (same version) and then copy over it with your existing installation. You'd have to mount both partitions.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> In the past I have used LUKS and simply stored a copy of the passphrase centrally. Not very "enterprise" though.

A user who wants to destroy data can do so regardless. Storing a key centrally only guards against accidental loss of the key.

</comment><comment><USER22> I'm using Debian with full disk encryption using the help of Debian Installer. Such a great tool, during installation and setup sometimes you might get confused when messing up with physical and encrypted partitions.

</comment><comment><USER23> I wish it was so easy as on MacOS or Windows - where you can essentially turn it on with one button. I don't think enabling encryption on an existing installation of Linux can be done without reinstalling or a lot of work.

<comment><USER24> Ackchually, enabling full disk encryption via LUKS is rather easy on Manjaro. It's literally a button that states "use full disk encryption" as part of the setup wizard. You then enter a password and that's it.

The tricky bit is if GRUB breaks (hint: GRUB looks for every opportunity to break. If it can break, it will) and you have to chroot into an encrypted LUKS partition. That's where your average user will be SOL. Not sure how the recovery process would work for Bitlocker or FileVault.

<comment><USER25> The parent was referring to doing it after the installation and he is right, it can't be done without serious hassle.

<comment><USER2> I can see why that's useful for Windows or MacOS, where most users get the OS preinstalled when purchasing the machine. But Linux is installed by the user themselves (or a trusted person) 99% of the time, so it's usually sufficient to set it up at install time.

<comment><USER26> For me, not so much. I installed Mint and skipped the step (as to not to introduce more complexity the first time), thinking 'I can do that later'. The disk is still unencrypted... Is there a way to do this and to restore the system state (installed software etc.)? DuckDuckGo didn't reveal anything conclusive.

Could anybody comment on the convenience of Linux encryptions (eg. LUKS)? In Windows, encryption is totally transparent to users (I need only to type the account password). I wouldn't mind typing in two passwords, other users on the systems not so much.

<comment><USER14> > In Windows, encryption is totally transparent to users (I need only to type > the account password).

With transparent encryption, Windows decrypts the disk at boot using the TPM. Prior to login the disk is already mounted (decrypted).

It provides an easy way for enterprise to say, "yes- we have FDE".

<comment><USER26> So there is no protection if the entire device is stolen (or put in a backroom at a border)? You can just boot it up and acess the disk without having a user? The Wikipedia page on Bitlocker does not mention this problem for TPM mode. Or is only a part decrypted until a user logs in?

Edited to add: The best I could find was this discussion: [https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/5fllep/whats_the_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/5fllep/whats_the_point_of_bitlocker_with_tpmonly_mode_as/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Usually just Veracrypt since I can use it on Windows as well..</comment>


Ask HN: What's a "rare and valuable" skill that is not programming? - <AUTHOR> My kids (10,14,15) are all learning programming in school, which is good. It kind of makes me think in the future programming will not be as rare or as valuable as it was 20 years ago.<p>I want to create a list of tangible skills (with your help) I could help them develop, so they have a good future. <comment><USER3> Sales. 2X more important that the rest of this list. As long as there are people and products, sales will be a valuable skill.

The "Trades": Carpentry, Plumbing, Electrical. NOT just as a job... most Americans own houses... knowing these skills can save you tens of thousands, and potentially add massive value to your property. Its a great fallback in case you lose your job.

Contract Negotiation/ Drafting. In the future much of our drafting work will be normal people using templates from the internet. Knowing the basics of drafting will save you a bunch of money and keep your risk levels down.

A Foreign Language. If you are based in the US your top choices should be Chinese (Mandarin , Cantonese) or Spanish.

Bartending/ Cooking The single fastest way to get decent income in case you lose your full time employment. PLUS I would argue culinary skills are valuable in business.

<comment><AUTHOR> What is 'drafting" exactly? (like a Lawyer or more like an Architect?)

<comment><USER3> Legal Drafting

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> The ability to explain the same thing differently to accommodate different people.

I have found that tutoring really helped me develop this skill. It also forces you to figure out what doesn't make sense to the other person and clear that up as well, even if it's not part of the question. Also, sometimes people aren't even sure what they need to ask.

I have worked with lots of people that know exactly what they were talking about, but couldn't convey it to the rest of the team. It can be crippling.

</comment><comment><USER5> I'm a dad who has been struggling with this. I've come to the conclusion that 'helping' just re-enforces the 'wot do you know old person'. I've had great results from emailing things that I find fun - most of which is ignored - <USER2> every so often it sparks an interest. Fan those flames - not your own. BUT remember. EVERY child is different and YMMV on any approach. Be very adaptable. Horrid answer for us prog types I know, sorry.

</comment><comment><USER6> Diplomat level negotiation and mediation. The level of skill that supports work that takes years sometimes. Some of those people can work magic.

</comment><comment><USER7> Cooking, everyone needs to eat and a good cook is popular with friends, at dinners and in the dating scene.

Drawing and Writing. The ability to communicate your thoughts and ideas through sketching or typing is valuable skill of communication that most people neglect. Conveying an abstract idea effectively could get them the job or win a contract.

</comment><comment><USER8> Be good-ish at 2 or 3 different things - one of which is programming which has a leveraging effect on anything else you learn (just trust the default libraries). Being good-ish at 2-3 different things (as a strategy) is rare and if you're actively looking you can translate that into valuable.

<comment><USER9> This is good advice, programming should underlay the other skills, then learning any specialty/domain on top of that will translate into very unique, valuable skills in that new domain. The more I learn the more I see how sooooo many things are in uncharted territory, so many ideas yet to be had.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> 1) Public speaking

2) Body language

3) Basic finance - for which I recommend a no chore allowance. Make them buy all non essentials with allowance. Oh we are at a fair, you want a lemonade? Sure, with your money. Water I will give (buy) for free. Total cost is less than the cost of your 23 year old child calling and saying they need rent money or they are being thrown out. Make the amount age based, and pay them once a month. We do ours on the last Friday of the month.

<comment><USER11> What's the best way to go about improving your body language?

<comment><USER3> Practice! (With video or a mirror) Additionally, if you want to see some of the fundamentals there is a book called "what every body is saying"... pretty good read

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Deep concentration is a rare and valuable skill IMO, especially the ability to do that at will.

</comment><comment><USER13> Panning for gold.

<comment><USER14> lots of youtube videos available for self-study as I have recently discovered

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Outside of the last and current tech bubble programming was never that valuable. And even then and now it's constrained to a few places and a few kinds of "programmers".

Nowadays crypto seems like the a space that could produce hypergrowth while being obvious and underappreciated at the same time.

<comment><USER16> How is programming not that valuable when average programmer makes $150k in US and university students from top colleges with programming can find $100k jobs straight outta college? Being good at programming is almost a for-sure way to mid to high wealth nowadays.

<comment><USER15> What's your source for the average of $150k? According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics the median is $82k [0]. Glassdoor seems to agree [1]. Plenty of jobs in the legal and medical profession command higher salaries and provide better job security.

[0] [https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information- technology/...](https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information- technology/mobile/computer-programmers.htm) [1] [https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/programmer-salary- SRCH_KO...](https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/programmer-salary- SRCH_KO0,10.htm)

<comment><USER16> It's tricky. You'll see different titles like "software engineer", "backend engineer", "fullstack developer", "systems engineer" etc... who are mostly just programmers, so it's not an objective classification.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: What are good resources to learn about protein simulation? - <AUTHOR> Hi,
I am wondering if anyone has recommendations on resources to learn how to simulate proteins.
I was having the most interesting conversation about proteins with a friend who is doing her PHD in antibiotics. She told me she had to run a protein simulation, and how her professor sent it over to some lab with super computers. so definitely interested in learning what the state of the art is with regards to these simulations.
I've done ~4 years of Physics modeling so I am familiar with how simulation in the engineering world works.
I've done cursory googling and found some books - but looking for recommendations before I make a purchase.
https://link.springer.com/bookseries/7651 https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Molecular+Dynamics+Simulation%3A+Elementary+Methods-p-9780471184393 <comment><USER2> You might want to take a look at projects under the World Community Grid which uses distributed computing for protein and other compound simulation

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. Will certainly check it out.</comment></comment>


How We Manage a Million Push Notifications an Hour - <AUTHOR> https://blog.gojekengineering.com/how-we-manage-a-million-push-notifications-an-hour-549a1e3ca2c2 <comment><USER2> We had a similar challenge supporting sending this many notifications at OneSignal, which we solved using Rust.

We recently hit a peak of 850 Million notifications per second, and 5 billion notifications per day. Here's a blog post on how we do it. Written back when we were at "only" 2 billion notifications per week: [https://onesignal.com/blog/rust-at- onesignal/](https://onesignal.com/blog/rust-at-onesignal/)

<comment><USER3> No offence but is this correct?

> We recently hit a peak of 850 Million notifications per second

per _second_?

From your blog "OnePush is fast - We've observed sustained deliveries up to 125,000/second and spikes up to 175,000/second."

I think you may have a typo. The bandwidth would be incredible too, if it were an unlikely 10 bytes per delivery that would be 8.5 GB/Sec.

<comment><USER2> This post is now a couple years old, so we've grown a lot since then. Here's a newer (more marketing-centric) post where we announced our 850k/second milestone: [https://onesignal.com/blog/throughput- record/](https://onesignal.com/blog/throughput-record/)

It's generally under 4 bytes per delivery, depending on the content, and we have several delivery servers. APNS, for example, doesn't support payloads larger than 4 bytes.

<comment><USER4> I think you mean 4kb rather than 4 bytes

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> 1 Million per hour is only 300 per second. On a 1.5 Ghz 4 core raspberry pi, that gives you 21 million clock cycles to deal with each message.

The architecture seems rather overengineered considering a single raspberry pi could do the job, even after 100x scaling!

<comment><USER6> And what happens if the raspberry pi goes down for an hour ?

<comment><USER5> You spend $35 on a spare.

<comment><USER6> And what if you don't want to lose the notifications in the time it went down ?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> lachlan-sneff 1 million events an hour is just 278 a second, which is a much more surmountable number than 1 million.

<comment><USER7> What if you get one push event on the first second, and then 999,999 on the last second? Still one million per hour. Don't assume the events are evenly distributed. I see this a lot on HN. Yes, 1,000,000 divided by 3600 is indeed about 278, but why would we assume it was 278 notifications exactly every second?

<comment><USER8> Then they should have said they can handle a million push notifications a second.

<comment><USER7> That doesn't make sense?

<comment><USER9> I think very few people, even on Hacker News, are so pedantic to argue strongly that someone is lying when they call 999,999 notifications in one second "a million".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I used to have pretty much the same reaction as most of the comments here on gojek engineering posts. Coming from a telco background the RPS figures were quite low while the complexity of architecture seemed completely over the top.

However, I now know more about the company. They have one of the most lean engineering teams of comparable companies here. Their CTO & VP Eng are incredibly practical guys whose advice would resonate with pretty much everyone here (Eg interview here[0] where they repeat the dangers of scaling too fast). They have small multifunctional product teams and the microservices architecture fits to this (as opposed to building it for fanciness / resumes sake). And they did it. Theres dozens of "features" in the app which are entire giant businesses in their own right.

So Id imagine the shortest path to getting this up and running this was definitely considered, would have been nice to go into more detail as to why simpler / outsourced solutions would work but id guess theres a good reason.

[0] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He0XBBfCEVk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He0XBBfCEVk)

<comment><USER11> > but id guess theres a good reason.

Sometimes there are no good reasons, and we should have the ability to question it sometimes, that's how progress is made, in science and in engineering.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> I'm currently implementing a notification system for our network of sites. Aside from the HTTP microservice, my implementation is about the same. Which isn't much of a surprise - I expect this is a fairly common way of doing it.

With that said, I was surprised to learn how complicated it can be to send notifications cross platform. Fortunately we're targeting the web, so I really only have to worry about two push provider implementations: APNs and VAPID. I really hope Apple agrees to implement VAPID sooner than later so developers can stop wasting their time.

We have used OneSignal in the past, but there's something so satisfying about delivering the notification yourself. Also, a word of caution for people new to push notifications: we discovered early on that sending a million push notifications all at once is a really good way of crashing your site, as they have a surprisingly high click through rate in the first minute of sending!

<comment><USER13> Why not use Amazon SNS? They abstract away the differences between APNS and whatever Google are calling their push infrastructure these days.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> I don't mean to discount the work done here, but why would a dev team build this themselves these days? There are many practically infinitely scalable services that do just this with various levels of sophistication.

From the simple AWS SNS ($0.50/million messages) or Google Firebase (free) solutions that do multi-device push messaging whilst managing keys, redelivery and delivery responses to the more managed services like Urban Airship and OneSignal.

The actual Android delivery component has to end up going through Firebase anyway.

The only part of this solution SNS and Firebase don't provide are the user fan-out functionality.

Surely there are other more important features delivery business value to be done rather than re-inventing (and then scaling and supporting) the delivery of mobile notifications.

<comment><USER6> Pretty soon your app is just a bunch of proprietary cloud provider products glued together and now there's vendor lock-in and much less flexibility.

You might want to throttle messages based on user settings or say ML models to avoid too many annoying messages. For critical stuff you might want to switch over to email or SMS.

These are startups that have the funding to do this kind of thing. This is a core part of the stack for any such company.

<comment><USER14> If that's your concern, lean on Firebase.

You _have_ to use Firebase to deliver messages to Android anyway, having it deliver to APNS as well you get for free with that implementation.

Maybe you _do_ want to do those things, but this implementation doesn't, nor do they mention the intention to do that. But if you did, SNS also provides implementations for delivering SMS and Email (preferably through SES).

Startups _shouldn 't_ waste their money on this type of thing, especially if you consider most startups will fail. Vendor lock-in is a pretty stupid thing to worry about for an early-stage start-up (and I argue it's stupid to worry about long-term too if that vendor is AWS, Google or Azure who are all very competitive with each other).

<comment><USER15> Having a middleware to abstract firebases API from the services makes sense if just to minimize the disruption the next time Google changes it. I've always left tokens up to the callers to sort out before calling the notification service, but I see the appeal of centralizing it if you have a lot of small products. I agree there is no longer any good reason to directly target APNS.

Nothing in the article really said how they got to millions an hour. In my experience the notifications are cheap enough to send that that figure is easy to obtain without any special effort on the push side. It's also embarrassingly parallel/easy to scale. How everything else scales around that (recipient filtering, reporting) is the interesting part.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I had a blast using Go-Jek and Grab when I visited Indonesia. It's basically Uber/Lyft, except you sit on the backseat of a scooter rather than a car.

[https://www.instagram.com/p/BZHty8NnTVZ/?igshid=5qg5ndm9r9ui](https://www.instagram.com/p/BZHty8NnTVZ/?igshid=5qg5ndm9r9ui)

Of course as others mentioned it's a super app so they do many other things, but I believe this is one of their main businesses.

<comment><USER17> Go-Jek has been huge for us as holiday rental managers in Bali. But lately there seems to be some sort of racket by drivers:

Example for Go-send (sending a package): "I have motorbike problem please can you cancel".

A minute after cancelling I get a message on WhatsApp: "Hey fixed my motorbike, still need?". Same thing with food orders.

Example for the Go-food: "Hey I'm at the restaurant, the phone is down. Can you cancel order? I will do manually".

Obviously the restaurant and the driver gets the full customer payment this way. Go-jek gets zero. This depends on the customer cancelling as otherwise the drivers rating takes a hit.

<comment><USER18> Wow that's really clever!

<comment><USER17> The average monthly full time salary in Bali for a local is around $270 USD. A Gofood order could easily be $100. Last time I checked Gojek takes 20% of the order value. On a $100 order that could get them $10 (assuming they split the $20 evenly with the restaurant). One a day for a month and you've made an additional average monthly salary. If you think about that in terms of a Western IT annual income (assume $60k) that's an extra $5k a month.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> The title of the blog is actually a click-bait.

The point of the article was more that when you have multiple teams, each owning multiple products, having a single well-defined abstractions over external dependencies provided as a service that you control is important to manage risks posed by those external dependencies and to make overall maintenance easier.

</comment><comment><USER20> This is cool, but I found this things called MQTT protocol and Emitter.io is one implementation of it. You can build your own notification system on top of it for a much cheaper cost.

</comment><comment><USER21> Why is less than 300tx/sec a such a big deal?

</comment><comment><USER22> I appreciate the positive effort to communicate something useful, but this basically came down to "We use RabbitMQ".

</comment><comment><USER23> I've seen a few good example blog posts discussing this scale, the 10 to 500 transactions per second and learned a lot from all of them.

Does anyone know of any description of architectures scaling to the next magnitude? 1000 to 10 000 TPS ? And even higher to say 100 000 to 1 000 000 TPS ?

<comment><USER24> Its difficult to "guess" ahead of the fact how you are going to scale for the next 10x, because you need to know.

a.) Which component is going to start breaking, and that depends on the usage pattern.

b.) Which business/tech compromises are ok to make, and that depends on a.)

Generally speaking though, you'd try to benchmark the system to find the bottleneck component, and based on the nature of it, either try to throw more hardware (horizontal or vertical scaling) or optimize the software.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> I thought this would be about implementing custom notification server and not using google's or apple's.

</comment><comment><USER18> Is that a lot of notifications ?

</comment><comment><USER26> I have done similar like. I think I do much better than those. But, I don't pass their interview haha.

</comment><comment> dis-sys 1 million notifications per hour, or ~300 per second, seriously?</comment>


The Stubborn Genius of Auguste Rodin - <AUTHOR> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/02/the-stubborn-genius-of-auguste-rodin <comment><USER2> Huh. The Walking Man looks like a novice yogi attempting to get into Virabhadrasana I.

</comment><comment><USER3> This article, a puff piece about Rodin (which, really, do we need more of that, 100+ years later?) fails to acknowledge that Camille Claudel was intricately part of Rodin's success and artistic breakthroughs. Some argue that she may have made many of the works he was famous for when she was 18. The author never once mentions her, even though any one with a hint of art history interest in this period would know that at minimum she was his "muse."

He literally never mentions her.

But I and others would argue that Rodin stole techniques and inspiration from Camille Claudel. She was never in her lifetime recognized as a great artist (or at the least, Rodin's equal), even though it was clear to him and many others that she as an incredible talent.

French art society routinely rejected her work and refused to give her commissions.

The narrative is that after their 10 year tryst she "went mad" and was committed to an institute where she died, which might sound like a familiar historical narrative to you, especially about talented women during this time period.

Articles like this wash women in history out of the conversation and are gross. They find the bits of history they want to celebrate and ignore the harder truths that led to a fascinating (but tragic) creative process.

Sources for all the "yeah but source" people: [https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2017/feb/26/camille...](https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2017/feb/26/camille- claudel-rodins-lover-acclaim-sculptor)

[https://www.amazon.com/CAMILLE-CLAUDEL-Life-Odile-Ayral- Clau...](https://www.amazon.com/CAMILLE-CLAUDEL-Life-Odile-Ayral- Clause/dp/0810940779)

<comment><USER4> I agree with much of this. Just to add to the shamefulness of her treatment, she "went mad" in 1905, was committed to a psychiatric hospital (likely against her will by her brother Paul) in 1913, and died thirty years later in 1943. What a waste of a wonderful talent. Her treatment by her brother in particular is despicable. More: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camille_Claudel#Confinement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camille_Claudel#Confinement)

There are attempts to bring some balance though. There was a flawed but wonderful exhibition in Detroit in 2006 which showed their work side-by-side. Aside from a power cut in the middle of our visit this was an astonishing demonstration of how much she influenced his work. (Although the power cut did allow some fun projecting huge shadows from the sculptures onto the walls using our phone torches). [http://www.economist.com/node/5354447](http://www.economist.com/node/5354447)

If you enjoy sculpture, or are even passingly interested, it's very much worth your while to make a journey for any exhibitions within striking distance.</comment></comment>


Things I Never Knew About Las Vegas Until I Ran a High-Roller Suite - <AUTHOR> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-09-04/secrets-of-las-vegas-s-exclusive-high-roller-cosmopolitan-sweet <comment><USER2> >Those are stakes of roughly $600,000 per minute, or $36 million per hour.

This is an odd thing about gambling when compared to drugs, prostitution or other vices. Gambling can scale up to consume whatever amount of money you happen to have.

It is no doubt a lot but there is some upper bound on how much heroin/cocaine/whatever you can consume without outright killing yourself.

Similarly, there is some upper bound on how much any single human can spend on prostitutes.

Gambling has no upper bound. It can scale up infinitely in line with the gamblers financial means.

I don't know what that theoretical cost ceiling is for drugs and prostitution but I'd hazard a guess and say its way lower than $36 million per hour.

<comment><USER3> And gambling addicts are scary because they can ruin their lives in less than a year, digging a hole worth more than a decade.

<comment><USER4> These must be the 'guests' that 'go dark after 2-3 years', according to the article.

Churn must be interesting for casinos, there has to be a continual search for new 'guests' that haven't already been fully fleeced. The out of this world hospitality is probably the best advertising they have.

Although gambling is as old as money and can be found all over the world, the phenomenon of Las Vegas is extremely American. In the rest of the world there is 'pecking order' with a hierarchy where everyone knows their place, whether they like it or not. This is useful as there is no pressure to 'become king' as that position is not open to you. You can be relatively happy with your status even if you are 'just' a school dinner lady. Furthermore you can gamble on a regular basis to improve your situation (in your dreams). There are the 'turf accountants' on the High Street or at the actual races. Sports betting also allows for the gambling interest to be masked, you can pretend that you 'love' horses, football or dogs.

Meanwhile, in the land of the free, where the dollar is king, there is some pressure to show you have made it, that you are eligible for the top table. With this pressure comes status anxiety, so you 'have' to make it or die trying. Since you can't just pop in to the 'turf accountant' to waste some money on horses (America lacks bookies), you have to save up and go to Vegas, to live it up whilst you are there. Interesting 'monopoly' Vegas has going on there.

<comment><USER5> I have a different view of the United States as a foreigner. It seems that people have accepted the lack of upward mobility quite well.

<comment><USER6> As a foreigner in US, I have observed some interesting lifestyle choices at play.

Most popular media propagates "impulsive", "care-free" choices as the way to "live your life". Add an abundance of options to spend money you don't have (credit cards, personal loans, financing options, Lease Vs. Buy, subscription models, etc.) and you have yourself an ecosystem that is highly likely to overspend, run out of money and fall straight into debt.

Throw in social media into the mix and you have cheap, scalable, autonomous marketing campaign that pulls in the masses.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> > _There is one habit that even the brattiest clients tend to avoid: getting > blindingly drunk. When you're gaming at such astronomical dollar values, > after all, it's critical to keep your wits._

The author would be surprised. Besides, those are only "astronomical" for them and their salary, not for e.g. oil heirs. It's not like those people came there to strategically win...

> _Also in the category of demands that can't be fulfilled: hookers._

Yeah, right.

> _Requests for drugs—usually cocaine—are also once-a-week occurrences that > come with a hard "no." (Unless, of course, butlers see a valid > prescription.)_

Or, you know, if a employee working at the casino will make a thousand $ for their middleman role, for little risk.

<comment><USER8> The cocaine one is not true at all hotels. A friend of mine spent an evening with a high roller. This guy literally ordered cocaine via room service phone and it came up on a tray in lines. To be fair it was around 20 years ago so maybe times have changed...

<comment><USER9> It really depends on whether law enforcement is able to barge in there and do a bust. I wouldn't be surprised if the local government keeps an eye closed, given how much the high rollers contribute to local businesses. Don't know if the local government makes much money off of the casinos though (e.g. taxes).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> "Almost all of the clients are men, ranging in age from millennials to 70-year-olds, and they stick around for three to five years before going dark—usually due to bad investments, dips in the economy, or divorce."

This entire article made me sick to my stomach, money can be so terribly corrupting and empty.

<comment><USER11> I think you're looking at it the wrong way. I think it's an extremely positive thing for society that people who are dumb enough to squander their fortunes are given an opportunity to squander it, especially if those fortunes are unearned. It's very meritocratic. I hope Las Vegas is filled with the children of billionaires.

<comment><USER12> I think that if they gave those fortunes for something more worthy like progress of science or charities, it would be much more positive for society. Squandering is just spending money on unimportant things, which DO NOT give benefit to society. Yeah, some of this money will make it into hands of other people, but most of this is just removing value from society.

<comment><USER13> > some of this money will make it into hands of other people, but most of this > is just removing value from society.

I'm not an economist, but... surely near-as-anything 100% of this money is going to other people? Some tiny fraction is paid to the electricity company to keep the lights on at the casino, and some tiny faction of _that_ is the cost of the fuel that is literally burned for that purpose. I think basically the same goes for the various luxury consumables the casinos are comping to these guests. The actual cost of the base raw materials that are consumed is going to be tiny (relative to the huge sums being gambled, anyway).

Sure it would be _better_ if these gamblers gave their money to science/charities instead. If you think you know how to convince them to do so, then go for it.

<comment><USER14> A number of people made a similar comment to yours and that the money isn't lost, it just changes hands. The response that most people are giving is that it's an example of the broken window fallacy.

With gambling, though, there's nothing being broken but the money is still stagnant and it's frustrating for poor folk to watch. If you treat the 0.1% as a single entity, then the transfer of money between those who are extremely wealthy--while nothing is being produced for it--is equivalent to no economic activity happening (effectively the same as a father and daughter handing a million-dollar bill back and forth). The electricity and consumables you mention -- you're right that those are the most broken-windowy of all the expenses, but I'd say the real loss is that the money effectively doesn't move at all. There are billions of dollars changing hands, but the money gets stuck in a small, closed system that it doesn't seem to come out of.

If the rich people who make money from casinos were the type of people to donate to science/charity, then gambling would be an unusual and convoluted way of paying for that science or public well-being. Since they're actually more likely the type of people to hold on to their money or invest in things that only benefit themselves, then giving them more money absolutely is just removing value from society.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> "Guest confuses American and cheddar cheese, so when she orders American please bring her cheddar, but tell her it's American."

<comment><USER16> To be honest, actual cheddar from GB/Ireland is very different from the yellow goop served at most fast food chains. Not surprising that got associated with cheddar instead of the real thing.

"American cheese-like product" is a more adequate description.

<comment><USER17> Could also be because American "cheese" is very close in color to cheddar colored with annatto. They taste nothing alike, of course.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> This line does more than almost anything else I've read to explain the wealth disparity between the 1%ers and the rest of the world:

> "Those are stakes of roughly $600,000 per minute, or $36 million per hour. > (That nearly matches the 2017 gross domestic product of Tuvalu: $40 > million.)"

<comment><USER19> > wealth disparity between the 1%ers and the rest of the world

To make the Global Top 1% you have to earn $32,400. [1]

Being a billionaire puts you in the top .00003% of human. There are ~2200 billionaires out of 7.55 billion people.

<comment><USER20> > To make the Global Top 1% you have to earn $32,400

It always troubles me when people throw this global piece into it. This global number is absolutely meaningless outside of a regional and often even city based economy.

The quality of life someone can purchase for their family with a $34,000 salary if we live in SF is a terrible and incredibly rough quality of life.

When people speak about the 1%, they are typically speaking colloquially about the 1% from any given region.

The quality of life one can purchase for their family with a $34,000 salary in NYC is still just awful when compared to quality of life of the richest people in China or the richest people in India.

<comment><USER21> Anyone living on $34K in NYC has the option of living like a peasant in China, India, or even poorer countries. If you don't want to emigrate, you can do Peace Corps or other volunteer work and have all your expenses paid for, as well as still knowing that your American citizenship and all your assets will still be here when you get back. Relatively few people take advantage of this option. A very, very large number of people living in those countries are willing to risk everything for a shot at immigrating to the U.S. and living on a lot less than $34K in NYC.

That should tell you something about the relative desirability of these lives for most people, even if the dollar amounts are unreliable.

(BTW, the richest people in China and India are _very_ rich, oftentimes richer than their counterparts in the U.S. - the article said that 50% of the occupants of the Boulevard Penthouses were from China. So that's not really a fair comparison. Take a population of 2.5B and compare it with a population of 300M and even if the means of the former are much lower, the outliers are likely to be higher.)

<comment><USER20> > Anyone living on $34K in NYC has the option of living like a peasant in > China, India, or even poorer countries. If you don't want to emigrate, you > can do Peace Corps or other volunteer work and have all your expenses paid > for, as well as still knowing that your American citizenship and all your > assets will still be here when you get back. Relatively few people take > advantage of this option. A very, very large number of people living in > those countries are willing to risk everything for a shot at immigrating to > the U.S. and living on a lot less than $34K in NYC.

Using an entire paragraph to simply restate the old saying "If you don't like the _US of A_ , you can just get the hell out" doesn't make the argument any more compelling than it is as a simple sentence.

Some of us would prefer to rather than point at the worst nations and say "Welp, guess we should stop asking questions because at least we don't have it that bad." that we should look at places who appear as if they _may_ be doing better and ask "What are they doing differently from us? And can we emulate any of their policies to improve our own society?"

Looking for new information in order to possibly optimize systems is logical from my perspective.

But if you believe people should not be allowed to ask these questions unless they're first willing to "get the hell out" I suppose that is your prerogative.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> > Some guests are completely phobic about having anything thrown away, lest > the discarded object be something lucky. Hot winning streaks may be > accompanied by mounds of cigarette ashes, crumpled paper, or random > assortments of trash. It's so common, most butlers know never to remove > anything from a gaming table without triple-checking.

... what is the worldview of these people?

<comment><USER23> It's probably extremely wealthy, highly superstitious Asian guests. The article mentions that more than 50% of the guests come from Asia.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> If you're interested in reading about the darker side of gambling, I recommend this long-form from The Atlantic: "How Casinos Enable Gambling Addicts."

"Did Scott Stevens die because he was unable to rein in his own addictive need to gamble? Or was he the victim of a system carefully calibrated to prey on his weakness?"

[https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/12/losing-...](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/12/losing- it-all/505814/)

</comment><comment><USER25> I worked as a cashier at a riverboat casino in the midwest. Some nights I would be in the little cage in the high limit slot area. About once a month a specific woman would come in and take a whole row of the $10 and $25 slots (around 10 machines) and just walk up and down the row putting coins in the machine, hitting the button, and moving on to the next machine without even waiting to see if she won.

</comment><comment><USER26> Oh well. I don't think any of these "high net worth" clients are actually there to make money.. they're probably there to blow away a few million that they can recover easily from other investments or revenue sources. Re: cheese and sweeping things from hotels.. lol, they're human afterall :)

</comment><comment><USER27> >... not even James Bond could charm his way through the door.

Oww, come on ... James Bond of course could if he wanted to, the issue is that they insist on stirring Martini's:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaken,_not_stirred](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaken,_not_stirred)

</comment><comment><USER28> The part where they talk about denying people spending >$1mm the fulfillment of orders for drugs or sex that amount to $500-1000 is ridiculous farce.

They don't operate in a vacuum, and a casino that won't cater to legitimate and reasonable demands of a high roller will lose them to one who does, duh.

<comment><USER29> If _other clients_ start thinking the casino has a reputation for sex and drugs they'll go elsewhere. You have to balance which guests you want to keep.

<comment><USER30> Oh no, a casino that allows drugs for wealthy people, how dare them, I will stay elsewhere! Said no one ever.

I know several people who worked in palaces in several places and drug is NOT a problem to get. Either it is supplied directly by employees with a reasonably high commission, or the employees just answers something like "oh no we can't do that here. I heard however that there is a guy outside that can fix that for you".

Prostitutes are not a big deal either but you have to keep it classy and do not make scandal (so no screaming or too weird stuff and no cheap prostitute or underage girl, and they should look like fancy ladies most of the time).

Overall it's not really a big deal as long as it's not a client openly asking for drugs in the lobby.</comment></comment></comment>


Demonstration of a new group concept for high score lists in online games - <AUTHOR> http://numbrosia.com/?cmd=leaderboard&type=groups

<comment><USER2> At first glance, It looks like it's using a leaderboard, with teams that people can arbitrarily join.

I'd love to see a text-explanation of what this uniquely brings to the table, or what I'm supposed to focus on. There's a lot going on in the page, but without the context it's hard to see the revolution.

My apologies.

-Colin

<comment><AUTHOR> See [http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/cgi- bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board...](http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/cgi- bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=riddles_general;action=display;num=1203389672).</comment></comment>


GAE or Parse for first app? - <AUTHOR>

<comment><USER2> I use GAE. For the most part it's quite good, but there are these hidden critical flaws littered through it that most people won't run into until they're already heavily invested. If it weren't for them, it would be fantastic. The fact that they have existed for so long without being addressed makes me nervous about GAE's future, but my understanding is that Google are compelled to provide the service for at least 12 months following any announcement to discontinue it.

Examples:

[https://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=1...](https://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=10802)

[https://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=8...](https://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=8848)

</comment><comment><USER3> We use Parse to speed up our development process. We are building the entire app without maintaining any backend for now, and it definitely helps a lot.

But we are probably going to build our own backend very soon. So keep that in mind when you design your code structures if you are only using Parse for a short development period.

I've never used GAE, so I can't comment on any comparisons.

</comment><comment><USER4> Both are lock-in services, where you cannot build out again without significant re-investment into the work already done.

Evaluate both those options widely, and perhaps opt for a PaaS like OpenShift, where you can easily take the open-source version of OpenShift and self-host.

</comment><comment><USER5> Depends on the app. If your app is server-side intensive & should be scalable, GAE is better. If it is client side intensive & time-to-market is important, Parse gives you lot of those out-of-the-box.

<comment><USER6> I am thinking about using Parse for my next mobile game which need a backend to handle request similar to "Brave Frontier" but I worry that Parse may not be able to handle it. Am I worry too much?

<comment><USER5> Yes. I think Parse is good enough for your usecase. Games are client-side heavy and don't punish servers so much.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> www.firebase.com</comment>


How Algorithms Know What You'll Type Next - <AUTHOR> https://pudding.cool/2019/04/text-prediction/ <comment><USER2> this is a really large frustration of mine...they often don't predict what i'll type next, and i accidentally select an option then i'm hitting back to delete some large phrase it selected... argh, this and auto correct... so much time spent hitting delete... I feel like this is something trying to be too 'intelligent' for it's own good</comment>


The high cost of a free coding bootcamp - <AUTHOR> https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/11/21131848/lambda-school-coding-bootcamp-isa-tuition-cost-free <comment><USER2> > Once, a student asked about the difference between JavaScript array methods, > like push versus concat or forEach versus map, the team lead said they were > interchangeable. (They are not.)

Technically, push and concat can be augmented to achieve the same thing. Same with forEach and map. Might not be the best fitted screwdriver but it'll still kinda work.

<comment><USER3> Except that push mutates the array in question and concat returns a deep copy. And forEach returns undefined, while map returns an array. If someone claimed they were the same in an interview I doubt they would get hired.

<comment><USER2> Technically, yes there is a difference in semantics and convenience. pragmatically it depends on the programming style and language features / expressiveness.

Developers were able to map from one list to another list using for loops before functional-style map-like functions. Map is just semantically more concise about what it's doing, rather than how.

As for mutation versus immutable copy behavior, that's for convenience. Developers can also clone collections themselves.

A more charitable means of evaluating the class lead's comment is that the core of an algorithm is not affected by these things.

One could argue multiplication is just repeated addition.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> 30k?! You are honestly better off taking two yeas of night courses at a community college, and it will probably cost you half of that for more classroom time.

Bootcamp programs are really crap. Even in a traditional classroom setting, you only get out of it what you put in. I know CompSci majors who graduated only knowing Java and who were totally lost if they had to replace a ram chip in a computer. I knew others who would try new languages every semester and who probably still keep up with tech news in our industry.

Boot camps are more of a filter to find people who are going to put in that effort anyway. You have to in order to be able to make it. But I feel they're also part of this hustle culture bullshit; you're better off taking your time and learning slowly (and more affordably) rather than trying to cram everything in to 12 to 24 weeks.

<comment><USER5> > I know CompSci majors who graduated only knowing Java and who were totally > lost if they had to replace a ram chip in a computer.

The rest of your post notwithstanding, I don't see why a CompSci major should need to know how to replace a stick of ram.

<comment><USER6> They should know it all: where the cpu and ram is, how the motherboard look like and etc. Nobody expects them to go out there and start fixing computers, however if someone spends 4 years studying the subject and can't even be asked to look inside the box,well then there's not much hope... A couple of weeks ago I was on the sales floor and was about to change RAM on a couple of PCs( it's not my job,just wanted to do it). The sales rep pulled the PC from underneath the desk, took the side cover off,removed the old ram and put the new one in.If sales can do it, I'm confident anyone in CompSci should be able to do so as well.

<comment><USER7> > They should know it all: where the cpu and ram is, how the motherboard look > like and etc.

Why? That's not Computer Science. Computer science is the science of computation, not the science of computers.

> Nobody expects them to go out there and start fixing computers, however if > someone spends 4 years studying the subject and can't even be asked to look > inside the box,well then there's not much hope...

Hope for what?

> A couple of weeks ago I was on the sales floor and was about to change RAM > on a couple of PCs( it's not my job,just wanted to do it). The sales rep > pulled the PC from underneath the desk, took the side cover off, removed the > old ram and put the new one in.If sales can do it, I'm confident anyone in > CompSci should be able to do so as well.

Why? It's about as related to CompSci as doing field-expedient surgery is to Psychology.

<comment><USER8> > In the seven decades he was at M.I.T., Professor Forrester retained an > engineer's curiosity about how things work, and occasionally voiced dismay > that his students were not always so inclined.

> He recalled in 2011 that he once asked students in an engineering class if > they understood how the feedback mechanism in a toilet's water tank > maintained the water level.

> "I asked them, 'How many of you have ever taken the lid off a toilet tank to > see how it works?'" he recalled. "None of them had. How do you get to M.I.T. > without having ever looked inside a toilet tank?"

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Of 20 people I've interviewed who completed a coding bootcamp without prior CS education in the past year or so, I think 1 passed the phone screen (all front end). At this point I outright reject them because of the futility.

</comment><comment><USER10> The article states that the ISA aligns Lambda with the student - but I thought I read that they generally sell off the ISA, meaning they no longer have that alignment....

</comment><comment><USER11> I am not going to hire anybody from a free coding bootcamp or a coding bootcamp for that matter. Seems like they turn out people who know how to hack things together based on shallow knowledge.

<comment><USER12> Maybe it's an opportunity for people who wouldn't otherwise get the chance. I've met lots of young bright folks stuck in mcjobs, sort of at the mercy of circumstance. Maybe trying a coding camp will turn on a lightbulb.

There will be some filtering required.

<comment><USER11> maybe can be suitable gig hires to turn out quick cheap startup ideas.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> People calling out Lambda is what PG's "Haters" essay is about [http://www.paulgraham.com/fh.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/fh.html)

</comment><comment><USER14> The attempt to portray income share agreements as bad is very large stretch:

> These ISAs are the bedrock of Lambda's program. They allow the school to > market itself as an "accessible" computer science education. But critics, > like Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), have warned that ISAs carry many of the > pitfalls of traditional private student loans, "with the added danger of > deceptive rhetoric and marketing that obscure their true nature."

Yeah, except for one massive pitfall that student loans have and ISAs don't: With ISAs you only start to pay once you actually start making money whereas student loans saddle graduates with debt regardless of their job prospects. If the graduates of the Lambda school don't land jobs then the school doesn't get paid. With traditional student loans, the school gets paid even if their graduates are unemployed.

ISAs seem strictly better to me. It shifts the risk burden onto the school, and creates monetary incentives to improve the job prospects of graduates. By comparison, traditional loans put the risk burden on the student and because the university is paid upfront there is not as much incentive to better the job prospects of graduates.

<comment><USER15> "strictly better" and "carry many of the pitfalls of traditional private student loans" aren't contradictory.

ISAs can be, and are, better than student loans. But they're not a universal good, as demonstrated in this article: if you are on the receiving end of a crap course that doesn't help you get a job is it really good that you'll have to pay for it (when you get a well paying job from entirely unconnected means)?

<comment><USER14> > if you are on the receiving end of a crap course that doesn't help you get a > job is it really good that you'll have to pay for it (when you get a well > paying job from entirely unconnected means)?

When the alternative is:

> if you are on the receiving end of a crap course that doesn't help you get a > job is it really good that you'll have to pay for it ( _with interest_ , > even if you're still unemployed after taking the course)?

Yeah, the former is really good.

Sure, it'd be better if the courses were free. But are you going to spend two years teaching computer science without pay? I'm not going to, and I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that most people won't either.

<comment><USER15> > When the alternative is

Your supposition is that there are two options for everyone:

a) go deep into student debt

b) go deep into ISA debt

and no others. I contend that isn't the case. You could do neither. When you're in danger of getting into serious debt via an ISA to a company that doesn't seem to be competently running courses that will lead to employment it's only sensible to question whether it's worth signing up in the first place.

<comment><USER14> There's no "ISA debt". There's no interest racking up. You may not even pay anything if you don't get a well paying job.

Sure, an ISA from a bad program is not good. But at least you're not paying unless you get a well compensated job.

<comment><USER15> > There's no "ISA debt"

?!?! Of course there is! What are you repaying when you get a high paying job?

<comment><USER14> You're paying a percentage of your income, _if_ you're making above a threshold. This is in comparison to _debt_ which has interest that makes the debt increase over time until paid off - regardless of whether you are employed in a well paying job or even whether you're employed at all.

Yes, under both system money is being paid back to someone. But crucially, there's no interest with an ISA. And furthermore, no money is taken until people get a job that pays a certain amount.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Pull up a chair, DHH is going nuts on twitter about this rn</comment>


Young people ignore social media age limits - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35524429 <comment><USER2> The headline invites ridicule. A more descriptive headline would be, "That young people ignore social media age limits exposes them to bullying."

When I was a 6th grader, I played Diablo II online. A player named "I-Dupe" told me he'd duplicate my items and give them to me. I thought he had a program to do this.

I gave him my items, and he left the game. My items were not duped; I was. I bawled, and ran downstairs and yelled to my parents. They offered consolation and advice ("be careful online"). But you can tell my parents couldn't ameliorate my hurt feelings.

If I could wave a magic wand, I'd turn this situation--wherein parents have to cope with the relationship between their kids and the web--to one where parents can do something about it. The ridicule I've seen in HN's comments just now demonstrates that age requirements don't work and appear disingenuous. I'm also skeptical of what someone from UK Safer Internet Centre said, "It's so important that we show children what other things they can do using digital technology that are engaging, creative and age-appropriate. It's about showing them what else it could be and inspiring them with that." When we make things for people "less" than us (young, less-tech-literate, etc), we often make something crappy[0].

[0] [http://paulgraham.com/javacover.html](http://paulgraham.com/javacover.html) relevant excerpt: Like the creators of sitcoms or junk food or package tours, Java's designers were consciously designing a product for people not as smart as them.

This "smart people creating for people less than them" problem is exacerbated with students. You can convince almost any unemployed adult to learn Java by telling them it's profitable, even if they can detect condescension. But students are just as good at detecting condescension, and these "engaging, creative, and age-appropriate" tools are probably made to occupy students' time, not make them money.

<comment><USER3> Reminds me of this exchange when the Hogfather gives a sword to a little girl: [http://m.imgur.com/gallery/DXDvM](http://m.imgur.com/gallery/DXDvM)

You learned two valuable lessons that day on Diablo. 1) don't be too trusting, 2) crying does not fix things in real life

I think kids _should_ be exposed to experiences like that. They should be given guidance, not bans.

Take alcohol for instance: in Europe people start drinking very young (illegally). It's socially accepted as the norm that everyone knows happens. But for kids this is very hard to do of course.

As a result, college is a lot less ... shall we say exciting? By the time we have easy access to alcohol (money+legal) we already know how to treat it with some amount of respect.

<comment><USER4> _> in Europe people start drinking very young (illegally)....

> By the time we have easy access to alcohol (money+legal) we already know how > to treat it with some amount of respect._

I would suggest that early illegal drinking is a dangerous thing. It works as you say for the majority, but for a sizeable minority it causes serious problems both then and in the future. Overall it is a bad risk/reward situation IMO.

 _Legal_ early drinking while young more reliably has the effect you describe in my experience though.

I don't know about elsewhere in Europe, but in the UK while it is illegal to sell alcohol directly to anyone under 18 under _any_ circumstances, or those 18+ if you have any reason to believe they are buying in order to supply a minor except under specific conditions, you _can_ (at your discretion) knowingly sell it to a "responsible adult" who is buying for a minor (IIRC the cut-off here is 14+) _if_ the drink is part of a sit-down meal in a properly licensed premises. This covers having wine or beer with a meal in a restaurant. Furthermore, in your private residence you can give alcohol (again at your discretion) to anyone older than 5. The "at your discretion" part is vitally important here, it is the caveat through which the seller/giver is liable for prosecution under child protection laws if they are seen to allow anything that might be dangerous to a minor or get the "responsible adult" judgement wrong, and is also the caveat that allows the seller/giver to say "no" for _any_ reason (which they do not have any legal obligation to explain, and if the customer gets angry about the situation that is adequate reason for refusal on its own in addition to any other considerations).

<comment><USER5> 10 US states have parental consent exceptions for service in a bar or restaurant:

[http://drinkingage.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=0...](http://drinkingage.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=002591)

(It's an interesting mix, including Massachusetts and Texas)

A good deal more let parents give their kids a drink at home.

I guess social attitudes contribute at least as much to college age binge drinking as legal regimes.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> It's worth noting that a lot of these age limits are a result of COPPA, which is legislation that prohibits companies from tracking people under the age of 14 without parental permission.

When this law was first introduced, a site that I used heavily as a minor required me to get a permission form signed and faxed by my parents before they'd unlock my account -- while I actually got them to do this, it would have been faster and easier to create a new account with a fake age.

I think these laws need to be revamped, although because they only affect kids they're not really on anyone's radar (in the US, the deteriorating and underfunded school system is a more pressing problem). Companies end up tracking kids anyway through their parents, whether it's the "35-year-old female using Angry Birds" (actually their mother handing their phone to their kid on a train) or having your parents upload your baby photos to Facebook hours after your birth.

</comment><comment><USER7> Basically a repost of

[http://www.theonion.com/article/i-am-under-18-button- clicked...](http://www.theonion.com/article/i-am-under-18-button-clicked-for- first-time-in-his-6396)

</comment><comment><USER8> This is a bad title edit, if it was edited. The original title, "Safer Internet Day: Young ignore 'social media age limit'", at least focuses partially on the actual topic of the article, an event meant to raise awareness of online bullying. A better title edit would be "10-12 year olds report seeing, experiencing online bullying in spite of social media age limits".

But, you know what else puts youth at risk for bullying? Going outside. Going to school. Being different. Liking things other kids don't like. Being gay. Being black. Being asian. Etc..

Random trolls on the internet can do orders of magnitude less psychological damage to a kid than their actual peers can by excluding them from activities in the real world and making the state-mandated 9-5 they go to an experience they dread.

This sort of dominance behavior is likely a human evolutionary constant, but so are a lot of behaviors we've as a society decided are no longer acceptable. What will actually stop bullying is enforcing, across society and consistently in front of children, that it isn't acceptable to hurt other people to benefit yourself.

I'm sure virtually every educator knows this, because they're usually trained in child psychology. So if you see an "educator" saying that the thing we _really_ need is an "internet safe zone" "for the children" you should know where their loyalties really lie.

<comment><AUTHOR> > at least focuses partially on the actual topic of the article

Yes, sorry. I thought people would read the article before commenting, and it seems a few people didn't bother doing that.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I assure you, those are not the only digital media/online age limits being ignored.

</comment><comment><USER10> And young people ignore age limits for everything else. Just ask how many people under 18 watch ultra violent movies and what not. Or how many Call of Duty fans are under 17 years old (read, probably most of them).

Or heck, how completely non effective COPPA is on internet forums. Seriously, the amount of people who care about it is maybe... 0.1% of the population?

And practically speaking, you will never avoid this. Any form of tick box or date of birth verification is faked in seconds, any credit card details will just be taken from a parent or friend's account. Just like real life really. If a kid can't buy something on their own, their parents will probably just buy it for them.

As for the claims of bullying and stuff... well sure. At least social media has a way of dealing with the issue (by banning accounts, blocking people from contacting each other, etc). That's ten times more effective than anything a school would ever do, especially given how the latter often just make the situation even worse by uneven enforcement and victim blaming.

And hey, it's at least easier to ignore bullies online than in the real world.

</comment><comment><USER11> Does anyone think something based on something like SMOG readability to check grade level + something like uClassify [or some other machine learning API for age:text correlation] would go a decent way towards fixing this?

For sites that actually care about this sort of thing and aren't doing the legal minimum?

[i.e. Take a 500 word sample from the user over their initial posts, test it against SMOG to see if it meets a minimum grade level. Test it against a machine learning tool to see if it estimates reasonable age. If it doesn't pass, disable the account and ask for ID and/or parental consent form]

</comment><comment><USER12> News at 11

<comment><USER13> Also, minors drink alcohol.

<comment><USER14> and people don't read ToS

<comment><USER13> Well, it's all about plausible deniability. The people who run these sites know that minors are using them, and it would be cost-prohibitive to make it really hard for minors to use them.

So, instead, embed some text in your ToS and pretend to act shocked whenever confronted with direct evidence that people aren't complying with the ToS.

It's the same for porn. An "are you 18?" page isn't going to stop anyone, but it shifts the blame from the publisher to the consumer.

<comment><USER15> > An "are you 18?" page isn't going to stop anyone, but it shifts the blame > from the publisher to the consumer.

That makes no sense, considering that someone under 18 is not able to enter into any contract (with the publisher) in most jurisdictions. compare: It would not be enough to ask "are you of legal age?" before serving alcohol to someone. Proof is required.

<comment><USER16> It's actually very common in Oregon to be asked if you're over 21 before having alcohol served to you (without being proofed).

<comment><USER17> Yeah, but that's not what's _supposed to_ happen. They'd be more diligent if you looked younger.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Shocking

</comment><comment><USER19> the youth are a menace

</comment><comment><USER20> yeah, I've known this for a long time.

On Reddit, for instance, I saw a discussion in /politics (by many, many users at the time) about why a 13 year old can still be just as mature and smart as someone over 18.

I'm in my mid 30s and the only reason anyone would say this is if they are close to that age or they want to have sex with someone that age (and justify it).

<comment><USER21> I disagree (and for the record, not because I want to have sex with someone that age.)

A 13 year old _can_ be just as mature and smart as someone 18+, the reason the law exists is because it isn't the case nearly all of the time, and there's no simple way of judging on a case by case situation, so it's better to protect the 99(.9?)% of 13 year olds who need protecting.

This doesn't justify any adult having sex with a 13 year old, regardless.

<comment><USER20> How old are you?

I only ask because a 13 year old cannot possibly have the experience, knowedge, or wisdom to be as smart as an average 18 year old.

Unless of course, the 18 year old is really stupid or has some sort of disability.</comment></comment></comment>


Apple to Abandon Headphone Jack? - <AUTHOR> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/11/28/apple-to-abandon-headphone-jack-in-iphone-7/ <comment><USER2> i really wanted to read this. but after the second or third thing popping up obscuring most or all of the page, and me trying to find the button to get rid of it or else reloading the page, only to be assaulted again, i gave up.</comment>


Plantoid: An autopoietic sculpture - <AUTHOR> http://okhaos.com/plantoid/ <comment><USER2> Plaintoid would grow a lot faster if its Bitcoin wallet ID could be copied and pasted from its Web site. Just sayin'....</comment>


Panopticlick: browser fingerprinting research - <AUTHOR> http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/01/help-eff-research-web-browser-tracking

<comment><USER2> In public browsing (in Firefox) I'm unique. In private browsing I'm 1 in ~17000.

Interestingly, removing some of the non-standard fonts I have installed made me unique, even in private mode. This surprises me, because I have some pretty unusual fonts installed.

 _edit_ : And actually, now that I test again, it does find one other match even in non-private mode. I guess that it's counting each me as a new person each time I do it, even though I'm connecting from the same IP with the same exact browser configuration.

<comment><USER3> Not surprising given that fonts tend to come in groups---did you remove _all_ your nonstandard fonts? If five people out of a million install the same unusual font pack, and one removes all but one font from the pack, that one will be a unique even though the configuration is "more like" a common one.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I wonder if you can identify people using habitual patterns of mouse moving and pauses between keys when typing.

</comment><comment><USER5> "Your browser fingerprint appears to be unique among the 45,667 tested so far."

I use FlashBlock and Ghostery as well.

</comment><comment><USER6> Hmm, so I understand what they're tracking. But what's the end game for this experiment?</comment>


A new YouTube channel that's helpful - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh1mq_ZF1AQqwPDfCGH5BKw <comment><USER2> TLDR: ZeduHow now has 10 subscribers.</comment>


Gulp.js - <AUTHOR> http://www.webdeveloperjuice.com/2014/01/11/gulp-js-quick-and-efficient-stream-building-system/

<comment><USER2> There are hundreds of awesome articles about Gulp, why is this one (small and uninformative) getting submitted?

<comment><USER3> From the HN guidelines ([http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)): "Please don't submit comments complaining that a submission is inappropriate for the site." \- If you think the submission is inappropriate, flag it, otherwise just let the community decide whether it's worth upvoting or not.

<comment><USER4> Do you need a certain amount of points before you can flag something? I can't seem to find the link anywhere.

<comment><USER3> Yes, just checked and the guidelines do mention there is a karma threshold.</comment></comment></comment></comment>