Windows 10: New study shows Home edition users are baffled by updates - <AUTHOR> https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-new-study-shows-home-edition-users-are-baffled-by-updates/ <comment><USER2> To start with I am super unhappy with the content and execution of recent windows updates. Its not okay to keep resetting my preferences and it's not okay to rip out control dialogs that worked very well the past decade with some demented metro app (rip display and sound device setting).

But I have not had a single unexpected reboot on my win10 install. It's because I always update at the next time of convinience. Updating is required maintenance of any software system and you can't afford to ignore it. I also see some consequences of questionable behavior blamed on windows. You should never have hours worth of unsaved work open. NEVER. Don't blame windows or whatever, just dont ever do that or at least bear your shame quietly.

Also, please for the love of god, stop lobbying for OSes to faithfully restore your open apps on reboot. The only way to solve a lot of problems is to be able to really reset the state of everything which is not worth trading for your ability to better compulisvely hoard chrome tabs. That shit is not healthy btw.

Finally, reboots are necessary on all major operating systems, even linux. Remember Windows user used to be free to apply updates when they wanted but you, yes you, MS hater of yesteryear kept blaming MS for the large number of unpatched and therefore insecure Windows systems. So they don't give users the freedom to postpone indefinitely and of course it's also not right. So what can they do?

<comment><USER3> > You should never have hours worth of unsaved work open. NEVER.

How about running long compilations, video decoding, etc

Seems to me that Windows is unsuitable for real work.

<comment><USER2> how about you do pending updates and set your work time? I think planning is still allowed for real work yes? This is why I don't believe that all these complaints come from super productive future steven spielberg level content producers because people like that wouldn't even need to think about planning around such an utter triviality.

<comment><USER4> What if I'm about to go to a concert, running late and I need to print tickets last minute, and suddenly windows needs to spend 30 minutes updating, without giving me a choice? The fact that you can't stop it in the moment is infuriating. Also, you can't expect the user to manually configure system updates.

<comment><USER2> what if on your way to the concert your car breaks down because you kept putting of the required maintenance for months and months? This is exactly analog to your example. "Car users can't be expected to initiate an oil change at their convinience". Oh please.

<comment><USER4> My computer wouldn't break down without updates. I previously had windows 7 for years and never updated. And had consecutive months of uptime. You don't get it.

<comment><USER5> People like you are the reason we have to make system updates mandatory. Can you imagine if someone important kept an out-of-date primitive OS from updating for years? We have to be able to patch bugs in software whether you care about them or not. We are in climate change denial levels of discussion here.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Win 10 Pro -> Start -> Search -> "firewall" -> "allow an app through Windows Firewall" -> "Change settings" -> uncheck apps and features to disallow access to internet.

I turn nearly everything off. ... Check again and find various apps are allowed. (especially after a Windows Update, but seeming at random as well) WTF.

This is bad security.

In the past week the following apps became re-enabled in Windows Defender Firewall: "Xbox Game bar", "Windows Maps", "Windows Calculator", "Movies & TV", "MSN Weather", "Microsoft People", "Groove Music".

<comment><USER7> Why does Windows Calculator need network access??

<comment><USER8> To get the latest rates for currency conversion: [https://www.windowslatest.com/2017/07/23/calculator- windows-...](https://www.windowslatest.com/2017/07/23/calculator- windows-10-updated-currency-converter/)

<comment><USER9> Then it should ask for network access the first time and remember what you said.

I didn't even know it _had_ a currency converter.

These days I just do "200 GBP in hungarian forint" and google does it for me.

Though in fairness I'm a linux user who does some software dev on windows (in a VM) and that's about it.

<comment><USER8> Frankly, I didn't know it had one either. I took a guess at currency conversion being one calculation where the results would need to be looked up daily, googled and found the above article.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> As somebody who has experience with live updating software on windows while its running with no downtime, Windows updates has no excuse.

You can use symlinks to blue green deploy the software, swap the symlink over, and restart the software to have the new version take effect with little downtime. You can do this with dlls and having the software manually unload and reload the dll for the same.

locks on symlinks apply to the target, not the symlink, this is piss easy to implement, and heres the kicker! _Windows already uses symlinks for all of its dlls and exes as part of the winsxs store_ , so they could already use this to update without restarting, and even when a restart is needed, they could just stage it in the background, and do a normal reboot without the need for a pre shutdown and post startup stage.

This exists, right now, as something you can do in windows, windows 10, windows 7, windows xp. It works for all of them.

Microsoft has no excuse.

<comment><USER11> This! The pre shutdown and post startup stages are infuriatingly slow, and the message that says 'Please Don't shut off your PC' makes me want to strangle it with its power cable.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> I was at my CPA the other day. One of her two monitors went blank due to a h/w issue and so per instructions from her IT guy she had to reboot. Windows decided it had to apply updates as part of the shutdown sequence and she was unable to decline. So we had to sit there and wait 5 minutes for it to apply the updates, then reboot. (Maybe there's a way to override applying the updates and yes, she should get her second monitor fixed. I'm her client, not her IT person, so I wasn't going to intervene. And we had a nice conversation while waiting, so there's that.)

FTR, macOS has also become increasingly annoying with how it applies updates, and my iOS devices never seem to auto update at night like they're supposed to. As in industry, we suck at this. Is Linux the only OS making an effort at patching without rebooting? And does it actually work?

[https://linux-audit.com/livepatch-linux-kernel-updates- witho...](https://linux-audit.com/livepatch-linux-kernel-updates-without- rebooting/)

<comment> crooked-v > and my iOS devices never seem to auto update at night like they're supposed > to

Do they have alarms set? For whatever weird reason there's no way to get it to auto-update overnight if there's an alarm.

<comment><USER13> I imagine they'd rather you go unpatched than run the risk of not waking you up for an appointment?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> It's unbelievable how badly Windows has gone downhill since 7. Settings have become nonsensical and split across different panels, application search in the start menu is frequently worthless, and all sorts of shit you don't want is advertised or installed to you. Despite having paid well over $100 for it I feel like I'm being subjected to a freemium model.

I get that Microsoft no longer makes most of their money from Windows, but that doesn't mean it needs to become terrible!

<comment><USER15> "I get that Microsoft no longer makes most of their money from Windows"

Is that even true? I thought it's still the cash cow.

<comment><USER14> There's some figures here: [https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/06/29/how- microsoft-corp...](https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/06/29/how-microsoft- corporation-makes-most-of-its-money.aspx)

Windows revenue is well below Office and Cloud revenue, and even below Xbox revenue. This makes sense; a typical user is probably only paying an average of $100 on Windows, and infrequently at that. The last time I bought Windows was many years ago, when 7 came out. I took advantage of the free upgrade to 8 and then 10 since then.

<comment><USER15> Maybe Google should learn from them how to get away from ads. It's pretty phenomenal that they have been able to shift their main revenue from OS to other things like Cloud. I know people like to sh.t on MS but I wonder many of the current tech stars will be able to stay alive and healthy during several major technology changes like MS has done for decades now,.

<comment><USER14> Seems kind of like a tangent, but, advertising is a field that has existed for many hundreds of years. It's not the same kind of thing as Microsoft Windows, which is a specific type of software product. I'd say the fairer comparison is that Microsoft is still completely dependent on selling software, just like Google is still completely dependent on selling advertising.

<comment><USER15> I just think from an ethical point of view I much prefer Microsoft's model over google's which depends on sucking up more and more information about people. Give it a few years and Google and Facebook will have worldwide surveillance of everybody on a level that never existed and most people probably can't imagine. Even companies with a bad reputation like Oracle are better. You give them a lot of money and they give you a product but don't need to know every move you ever make.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> As a contractor I spend considerable amount of effort and money to have my work tools in good shape. I buy top-notch hardware and am not afraid to buy software if it helps my life just a little bit.

I can't understand how Microsoft thinks it is okay to force updates on me and then not even bother to make sure those updates work.

After having couple of high-cost delays due to my laptop deciding reboot while doing important analysis or deciding not to boot at all due to Windows update failures I was forced to drop Windows and a dozen Windows-only tools I have used along with it.

Macbooks are non-starters. The laptops are barely usable. I am heavy keyboard user and touch-typist and I can't envision using a laptop without physical function keys. A laptop that can die due to dust speck? Apple, please make a laptop for people that actually work and need reliability and usability more than shedding another half millimeter of thickness.

I don't want to say Linux is perfect. It is extremely irritating to spend hours trying to get basically anything working.

I just want a machine that works and that I can rely to work next day when I open it to start my work day.

Why is it so hard in 2019?

<comment><USER17> > I don't want to say Linux is perfect. It is extremely irritating to spend > hours trying to get basically anything working.

If this is a machine for work, why are you not buying one with linux preinstalled? For instance the dell precision models:

[https://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/555/campaigns/xps-linux- lap...](https://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/555/campaigns/xps-linux-laptop_us)

<comment><USER11> Sure that helps you with the initial cruft of drivers and stuff, but later on down the road there will be many obscure things that don't work right on your specific distro w/ some weird specific fix/workaround that can only be found after googling for hours.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Windows 10 updates are SUPER fun when you are running the N version and have the media pack installed. Usually the updates fail, so you get 6 reboots every few nights until you uninstall the media packs.

Finding the new media pack that's compatible is another exercise in insanity. They ALL install without error, but only one actually works. People who think Windows is simpler or easier than Linux are wrong.

<comment><USER19> > People who think Windows is simpler or easier than Linux are wrong.

Or they don't do anything crazy.

<comment><USER20> It's odd your comment is in gray. In my experience, Windows 10 (Pro) works fine, as long as you don't go looking for crazy (cause you'll find it of course).

It's like those people running custom Linux kernels complaining about IO latency on their standard laptop running Firefox. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

<comment><USER18> Being the "IT guy" of the family has shown me that it happens even without looking for crazy.

My wife's grandparents bought a nice Dell all-in-one desktop, running Windows 7, despite 8 being out. Then Win 10 came out just a few years later (less than 3), and Microsoft _force updated_ them. Well, Dell didn't have drivers to support Win 10 (and still don't), so I had to do all sorts of crazy gymnastics to get their monitor back. Content updates regularly break these fixes, of course.

<comment><USER21> You know, I remember back in the day when this law called the CFAA made "unauthorized usage" illegal.

So.. Ive seen it used against a number of individual hackers. Why not companies?

<comment><USER22> By simply being in the same room the machine is in, you have agreed to the EULA and you can take it up with MS in forced arbitration.

<comment><USER21> EULA eh?

Show me:

         1. Where it was signed (show me the document)
         2. The wording of the agreed EULA
         3. Who agreed to it
         4. If theyre even able to make it.

Because I know at my workplace, a computer was provided to me. Windows 10. I never clicked on a EULA. Ive also made VMs on AWS of Windows server 2016 for testing - again, no EULA. No clickthru.

<comment><USER23> Until the courts say otherwise and an enforcement body hands out penalties, none of that is necessary. You used the software, therefore you've implicitly agreed to the EULA.

It may not be fair. It may not we right but that is the world we live in today.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> This isn't a problem if, like me, Windows manages to corrupt itself and is unable to perform a Windows update.

A little over a year ago the automatic update failed, I've tried all sorts of ways to get an updated version of Windows, but they have all failed. My research seems to point me to a full reinstall of Windows.

But my computer hasn't restarted arbitrarily in over a year!

<comment> mark-r I had that problem with Windows 7. For years my media center PC was free from unexpected restarts. Finally I had to give in and reinstall Windows because some software needed VS2017 redistributable, and it refused to install on the borked system.

Decided to upgrade to SSD at the same time since prices have dropped so drastically.

<comment><USER25> The need for windows update to be working to install the VS2017 redist was a super annoying move by microsoft.

It wasn't required for previous versions of visual studio.

Because windows update is non-functional for so many windows users (mostly due to piracy) we we basically forced to change to static linking to avoid the need for the redist.

Of course, after we changed to static linking we started to run into a bunch of virus scanners giving false positives with their heuristics because all viruses are statically linked.

<comment> mark-r Thank you for that info, I didn't realize it was a deliberate move by Microsoft! Luckily my Windows installation wasn't pirated; I never did figure out why the updates stopped working.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> It's hilarious how terrible Windows updates feel compared to MacOS updates.

Windows insists on making users stare at an endless blue screen while admonishing them "don't turn off your computer."

Meanwhile, MacOS completes the upgrades during boot up, and then has the courtesy to restore your apps - a trick that still makes me smile every time it happens. It probably takes about the same amount of time to apply the update, but feels much faster.

Update on shutdown is a bad policy. It's disruptive every time. Getting off the plane? Don't turn off your computer! Running late for an appointment? Don't turn off your computer! Going to sleep? Don't turn off your computer! Just lost power in a windstorm? Don't turn off your computer!

<comment><USER27> Counterpoint: Booting my Mac is when I'm going to work on something and seeing delays due to an pending update feels like an inconvenience. Shutdown is the time to do those tasks that block me from using my computer.

I'm sitting at my Mac right now and see an update notification popup in the upper right corner - it has been nagging me for days and every time it returns I wish it would remind me on shutdown when I don't intend to use my computer for a while. I click on on "try again tomorrow" although I know that there's no way I'll interrupt my work when the notification returns the next day. This continues until I actually remember to start the update instead of shutting down my Mac.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> Windows update reboots come up on HN every so often, and I still don't understand the problem. Windows is my daily driver, and updates force me to reboot my laptop 2 to 3 times a year. _oh no!_

Plus, usually I can just schedule the reboot to happen at night when I sleep. All I have to do is click an "restart tonight" button in a notification and then not shut it down that evening. TBH I don't understand why this is considered bad design, especially by the HN crowd.

I suspect that the people who complain about this on HN are mostly people on mac/linux who run windows in a VM 3 to 4 times a year and therefore think that it needs to update-reboot all the time. I felt the same about Firefox (which has relatively noisy updates) before I switched to it as my daily driver.

<comment><USER29> I have two pet theories on why this subject comes up as much as it does on HN.

1\. Windows Updates were a known quantity for years. Patch Tuesday and so on. Now there are various short-lived concepts like CB, CBB, LTSB, SAC, LTSC, Active Hours - it's almost as if some middle manager MBA who recently graduated said to themselves "how much technical jargon can we throw at 'em?" To what end? I'm not sure. The tin foil hat crowd (which I've been somewhat forced to join) would say that 1. dovetails into 2.

2\. Increasing disrespect for the users, which many of we on HN see and hate (see rest of this paragraph), and the vast majority don't see. Privacy invasions which cannot be stopped (minus 'hacks') a la quartering of the kings solders, settings reverting themselves in willful violation of the user's express wishes, and the biggest insult of all, denial of user-control over updates, a feature that has been with Windows for decades. Update control being yanked away from the users, in addition to the telemetry and setting reverting themselves are viewed by many as Microsoft machinations aimed at turning the users into the used.

<comment><USER30> >Now there are various short-lived concepts like CB, CBB, LTSB, SAC, LTSC, Active Hours - it's almost as if some middle manager MBA who recently graduated said to themselves "how much technical jargon can we throw at 'em?"

Controls how often/whether you get feature updates. They're not applicable to home users as they only have access to CB.

>Active Hours

Controls when your computer will auto-reboot

what's so confusing about this again?

<comment><USER31> >Controls when your computer will auto-reboot

>what's so hard about this?

It's not hard. It's that I am out of control of when my PC gets to reboot. It is a small inconvenience, but it should be something I don't have to put up with at all. I've had file updates cut short over "inactive" reboots. 10+ GB downloads that I was hoping to use the following day that never finished due to a restart.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> I'm off windows for good. Automatic updates which reboot my machine and cause the occasional breakage are one thing. There's also just too many UI/UX WTFs (two control panels with completely different interfaces, that f __ing ribbon in office, etc).

Just bought a new (well, refurb) XPS 9370, wiped it, and installed Fedora. I have to run Windows at work (corp policy), but they let me install Virtualbox (so I do all of my work in a Xubuntu VM), so, at least there's that.

</comment><comment><USER33> I find it ironic that Windows was long derided for being unstable and in constant need of reboots, and now they're basically deliberately reducing uptime.

Unwanted "new features" and the aspect of silently changing behaviour aside, the technology to patch files in memory and on disk without having to restart or otherwise disturb unnecessarily the entire system has been around for a _very_ long time (and amusingly enough, malware is probably the biggest application of those techniques today); and sending only diffs instead of entire files which may be 99% the same as before would probably save a _huge_ amount of bandwidth.

<comment><USER34> I was discussing with a friend on solutions on how to make your PC being 'never idle'. As he told me, if the PC is never idle, then Win10 won't enforce any updates/reboots.

I do not know how true is that, but when I suggested he use MouseJiggler [1] he thanked me and told me 'it worked'. It is a stand-alone/portable .exe that 'does exactly what it says on the tin'. I use it to keep away screensavers/screenlocks (on machines I don't 100% control).

[1]: [https://mouse-jiggler.en.uptodown.com/windows](https://mouse- jiggler.en.uptodown.com/windows)

Edit: I keep away from W10 so I don't know to what extend this would help. I assume it would delay unwanted reboots, but I don't know the W10 update- forcing mechanism, and on the diagram depicted on the article I don't see any 'idling' criteria.

<comment><USER35> There is a nice little tool to stop the reboots:

[https://www.udse.de/en/windows-10-reboot- blocker](https://www.udse.de/en/windows-10-reboot-blocker)

It changes the active hours every hour so that you will never be outside of active hours.

<comment><USER36> Years ago I followed a guide I found online [0] which involves renaming the "Reboot" scheduled task file and creating a folder with the same name in its location, so that the OS fails to re-create the task file. Haven't had an unexpected reboot since.

This technique was familiar to me from the Kindle jailbreaking scene, in which creating a directory with a certain path would cause the Kindle's auto-updater to error out when it tried to `rm` what it saw as a preexisting partially- downloaded update file (the Kindle's OS is Linux-based, so the file-delete operation fails on a directory).

[0] [https://www.windowscentral.com/how-prevent- windows-10-reboot...](https://www.windowscentral.com/how-prevent- windows-10-rebooting-after-installing-updates) (including the "Additional Steps")

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> Updates make using Windows 10 as an occasional dual boot on a laptop a pain. I usually use the machine with limited or no internet and no power handy, so if I accidentally let it update I'm SOL. As a result I found myself reaching for Windows less and less.

<comment><USER38> Do you need to dual boot? I switched to using Linux full time, and running Windows in a VM when needed. It also simplifies the workflows because you don't need to reboot to switch between the systems

<comment><USER39> If you're running Windows to play games, you need your virtualized Windows to be able to take 100% control (or close to 100%, anyway) of the GPU to get equivalent performance to playing the same game on Windows running directly on the hardware. This "GPU passthrough" turns out to be complicated to do, particularly on VirtualBox, which ('cuz it's free) is the virtualization platform your average hobby user is likely to be using.

(Which is too bad, because I would _love_ to be able to stop dual booting just to be able to play some games.)

<comment><USER40> Apparently a eGPU will solve this. Plug the eGPU into the host machine/laptop, pass through into the windows VM, and itt'l work (apparently) without having to mess about with, well, anything. Would love to hear if someone has actually had any success with this approach.

<comment><USER41> This sounds cool except eGPU passthrough setups generally cost more then the GPU people want to use no?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> What I don't understand is why, once a restart has been initiated, the update process is so slow, taking sometimes north of 10 minutes on a powerful machine using only SSDs.

<comment><USER43> What I believe is going on is that for small updates it's issuing a lot of IO to create a restore point; meanwhile for large updates it's essentially issuing 16-30GB of IO to do a complete reinstall of Windows. I base this assumption off the fact that an artifact of these large feature updates is a `Windows.old` directory they use to power their 10-day rollback feature.

For the smaller updates turning off system restore helped immensely on my NVMe-based system, however I've noticed MS seems to re-enable it after every major feature update. (Of course, they muck up a bunch of my other settings as well, so I guess that shouldn't be surprising.)

The only solution that worked for me, long-term, was installing Linux.

<comment><USER44> They really should replace NTFS with something that supports snapshotting.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> On one hand as a user it's annoying to come back to my machine in a freshly rebooted state because of updates.

On the other as a technical support person, both for pay and free, the pain of dealing with non updated windows is the worst. The only way Windows can possible stay secure is to update a lot.

I actually like their new strategy of doing a "feature update". They do them too frequently (once a year would be better) but it prevents the Windows 7 problem where they never rolled updates together after SP1. Last time I installed 7 SP1 on something I had another 100 updates to install.

</comment><comment><USER46> The big question with Windows updates today is "what are they doing to screw me over this time?" From forced installs of Candy Crush to the Big Brother features of "telemetry", every update is a probable hostile code install.

<comment><USER47> I don't understand why everyone is tolerating (nay, engendering!) the level of invasion and subjugation that's baked into all the modern operating systems, linux aside. I want to spend $99 on a perpetual license and not be monetized any further! It's gone way too far now, and there has to be a way back to sanity. I suspect laws will be necessary and the industry will need to shrink. Some will lose their pointless jobs, but so be it. It's a dystopia you're building anyway.

<comment><USER48> I mean.. it costs money to continue to develop software.

The idea of paying for an OS is different from the idiocy of Windows-forced updates.

I understand people think of an OS as a static thing but when hardware changes you need to rewrite some of the stuff that sits on top, plus security updates.

<comment><USER47> Then just price in the cost of security updates into the up-front price. Done and done! This "innovation" in tech business plans to maximize perpetual revenue from users is (obviously) anti-consumer and dystopian. It's disingenuous to say that you can justify what's happened solely based on the cost of updates.

<comment><USER48> Price in the cost of all future security updates? Why would I want to buy software updates for life? That sounds incredibly expensive. And if a company were successful at selling this model, they could be taken over by some greedy businessmen who cut costs in order to get short term profit.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER49> My biggest issue with the restarts is that programs with unsaved state aren't allowed to block it. Even if I'm asleep and not using the computer, I often leave half-finished work up to continue in the morning. This works ok most of the time, but if I don't notice an update coming through it can wipe out hours of work.

In many ways, it'd be better for Windows to force a restart on a more frequent, fixed schedule to prevent bad habits from setting in.

<comment><USER50> I try never leave anything unsaved that I might care about. Past problems have hammered that lesson home. I don't trust _anything_ with unsaved information. _Any_ OS. But Windows in particular - in the past because of instability, more recently due to it being _designed_ to reboot without permission or adequate warning sometimes three times in a month.

It isn't just unsaved content though: you lose other context too. Browser windows spread over different desktops, open windows with things selected or scrolled into view, open apps that don't restart, ... Also, any long-running processes are fair game to be killed, as of course are connections to external resources which might respond in an unhelpful manner.

<comment><USER34> Not a problem for me, because I am using Win8.1, but...

I run simulation/optimizations for bots that trade forex. Basically trying different combinations/permutations in their parameters, and getting anything between 25 and 1500 results so I can select the optimum result/configuration. This saves time, because I don't have to run one-set-at-a-time-for-30-mins.

Those optimizations can be running for days. I have literally gone away for a weekend and on Monday it was still running the simulation(s). There is nothing 'active' at that time, 'just a software running'. If the PC restarts, all the work is gone, and optimization needs to begin all over.

I can fear that it wouldn't be the only case that a Win10 user would be impacted by a forced restart.

I do understand Microsoft's standpoint, but as the mighty Steve Gibson says (paraphrasing), I want the operating system to NOT take initiatives :)

<comment><USER50> Aye, I've had long-running performance analysis experiments running against SQL Server killed because the dev machine orchestrating the tests was rebooted without warning. That was some time after the normal "patch Tuesday" window. IIRC it was due to an update in Flash for Edge. A feature I don't use in any browser in a browser that I don't use (but can't uninstall or otherwise disable) caused a delay to my work. I was not best pleased.

"Windows Subsystem for Linux" amuses me. A tool for when you want Linux, but would feel lost without random reboots!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> > _How annoying are Windows 10 's automatic updates?_

About as much as websites that autoplay videos.

<comment><USER52> At full volume while you're wearing headphones.

</comment></comment><comment><USER53> Updates on macOS require restarts too. But when I restart, most applications restart exactly in the state I left them.

<comment><USER54> And most of the time macOS updates don't happen once or twice a month.

<comment><USER55> And we can postpone updates forever on macOS, or disable them completely.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER56> It's obvious that Satya Nadella IS NOT USING these Microsoft products (Windows 10 Home)! Bill Gates used to use Windows and complained about it, so it got better before it was sent out to the public.

How can one use Windows 10 Home, when all CPU + Memory + Network work all the time performing updates, updates, updates... If you are not using a computer for 2 weeks, you will not be able to use it for the first 30 minutes, because Windows will need to... update... Updates make Windows an unusable product!

</comment><comment><USER57> As anybody who's been using Windows since the 1990s knows, you have to save your work to a floppy every 5 minutes if you don't want to risk losing it.

</comment><comment><USER58> Does Windows 10 updates still have the Focus stealing problem ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_stealing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_stealing)) ?

<comment><USER59> Yep. And when corporate IT has installed some batch script that runs periodically and flashes a console window that steals focus while you're in the middle of typing, and then after it disappears 0.1 seconds later, for some reason nothing is in focus, that's super awesome.

If I didn't develop software, geek out on building my own IT infra, or play PC games, I'd really try to stick to an iPad. :-(

Edit: Could anyone suggest any tools for finding the culprit here? It's over way too quickly to catch in Task Manager. Like, I'd love a little live view of all the UI windows that have been created in the last 60 seconds, with a snapshot of the process tree that started each one.

<comment><USER60> I've never once experienced focus stealing during Windows 10 updates. They don't give you any indication that they're occurring in Home, Pro, or Enterprise.

<comment><USER58> I know a fullscreen focused pop-up occured on its own asking to select a time to "apply updates and reboot" on Windows 7. I was wondering, since it occured last during a very time sensitive task at my work and was the breaking point when I decided to switch OS. If it's not happening again I might consider going back to Windows.

<comment><USER60> There are no longer Task Bar notifications in Windows 10. Windows 10 has an Action Center which is similar to the Android Notifications Panel. Anything pushed to the user shows in there and doesn't steal focus. It can however briefly obscure part of the screen with the notification toast.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER61> Windows: Updates are absolutely critical for the safety and security of your laptop.

Me: Is this a security update?

Windows: No, it's an UI update.

Me: Please don't install this update.

Windows: Restarting...

Back in the Windows XP days you could install security patches without updating Windows to use the new UI, settings or other random things that the dev team decided to change. Wish Windows 10 brought that back.

</comment><comment><USER62> Solution: 1\. switch to Windows 10 LTSC 2\. block all outgoing traffic (Windows firewall advanced settings) except core networking and apps that you need to access internet (Firefox)

This will block all updates. If you want you can get manually download updates from Microsoft: [https://support.microsoft.com/en- us/help/4464619](https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4464619)

I have this setup running for my family (elder parents that first came in contact with computers 10 years ago) under full admin account (autologin) since Windows 7 times. Browser is Firefox+uBlock Origin. No security issues encountered till now.

Updates happen only when Microsoft releases a new service pack (Windows 7) or releases a version (once I switched to Windows 10).

<comment><USER63> > switch to Windows 10 LTSC

[https://www.computerworld.com/article/3250464/faq- windows-10...](https://www.computerworld.com/article/3250464/faq- windows-10-ltsb-explained.html)

"Microsoft changed the support rules for LTSB since Windows 10's debut ... in a way that makes it difficult, if not impossible, to widely deploy the edition."

</comment></comment><comment><USER64> These baffling updates are exactly the reason I dropped Windows like a hot potato over 2 years ago. I am a pretty serious hobbyist musician and used hugh-end DAWs for years on anything frim Win 98 to 7. As soon as 10 rolled around, constant unexpected forced updates would severely impede my workflow. I do indeed understand the need to update, but ok call me a control freak ...but I need to be in charge when and yes, IF that happens. Updating am OS could break a carefully configured machine that took lots of time and money to accomplish. I gave up snd tried Linux but quickly found that it's useless for serious music production. I moved to Mac and it's great except that you're locked into a pricey walled garden, which is a price I'm willing to pay for stability and control.

On a related note, I know professional producers (and I am friends with one of them) that maintain very old OS X systems for this very reason - these highly integrated systems can cost upwards of $15-20k and absolutely cannot be updated for fear of breaking something. They usually don't have internet connections, so they're not vulnerable to external threats anyway.

</comment><comment><USER65> Direct link to the study (without autoplaying video!): [https://www.ndss- symposium.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/us...](https://www.ndss- symposium.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/usec2019_02-5_Morris_paper.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER66> Microsoft needs to stop treating Windows like a scrappy start-up's single-page app that is constantly shifting its UI with the latest A/B test results. This is supposed to be a mature product with an expectation of stability and consistency--especially in the corporate environment.

</comment><comment><USER67> I read once that all OS code callable from a process begins with a NOP instruction, allowing an update to drop in a jump to the new version of that function by replacing the NOP.

I had to wonder why given that is available, why reboots on updates are required at all.

<comment><USER68> Shared libraries - dlls - are not reloadable like this. In fact they usually can't be deleted at all if they're in use, renamed at best, and that is risky if it's something that is dynamically loaded and is part of a dependency graph.

I'd expect the majority code covered by an update to be in shared libraries.

<comment><USER69> Isn't that just a deficiency of Windows' filesystem implementation, though? On Linux, you can absolutely overwrite libraries that are still used by running applications. The OS will just not reclaim the disk space until all those processes end (e.g. by means of reboot), but new processes will start using the new libs immediately.

<comment><USER70> _On Linux, you can absolutely overwrite libraries that are still used by running applications. The OS will just not reclaim the disk space until all those processes end (e.g. by means of reboot), but new processes will start using the new libs immediately._

Which if you're not careful could lead to undetectably unpatched systems - installed version is up to date, files on disk match if you check to verify, but some process that didn't get properly restarted is still using the (effectively) undetectable old version. Combine that with taking pride in triple digit uptime days and you could have something sticking around for a _long_ time.

<comment><USER71> It's not undetectable; just run "pmap [pid]" and it will show the loaded libraries with "(deleted)" at the front if the original file no longer exists: [https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4786975/what-is-a- delete...](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4786975/what-is-a-deleted- segment-in-linux-pmap-output)

<comment><USER70> That's both a correct and useful answer and one that proves my point in practical terms. If you know enough to run pmap over the process space of the server to look for issues like this, you also know enough to force restarts of the affected services post-update.

I could see this being something to add to automated monitoring tools run on a schedule, but I don't know enough to estimate the viability or usefulness of actually doing so - would it end up being a rule that in 99.999% of cases would only actually match if it happened to fire as the server was in the process of shutting down?

<comment><USER71> Tooling around that already exists: if you install the needrestart package on Debian, it will check every time apt upgrades something, so that you can restart daemons and such.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER72> Never have hours worth of work open? Why not? It's unsafe but I always save frequently, and have never lost progress. However, my issue is that the computer should behave THE WAY I WANT IT TO.

It shouldn't close everything I'm working on just to restart and perform an update.

My issue is that Windows constantly performs unintended actions. Wiping away my background services configurations, performing updates when I have work open and leave for 10 minutes, or run data telemetry services and spike my CPU usage.

If it weren't for the native office 365 suite and touchscreen support (I use a stylus) for my school work, I would have switched entirely to a Linux distro as a daily driver.

</comment><comment><USER73> Updates only breaks my window. I was about to throw my laptop last time. I have just turned off the updates, but MS start them again, so I turn off updated regularly from services, task scheduler.

<comment><AUTHOR> There's a hidden option to automatically reenable services after failure - uncheck it.

There are also tools that make permanently disabling Windows update a one click affair.

</comment></comment><comment><USER74> Strangely enough that MS has not yet applied some sort of ML algorithm to finding the times for updates "best" suitable for each user. I thought that's the thing currently

<comment><USER75> They have.

Thing is, that's not solving the root problem though.

The real issue is Windows doesn't give users enough control, and still takes an inordinate amount of time to install the updates during the offline stage (shutdown/restart) on typical home PC hardware.

Merely shifting _when_ updates occur won't help in the long-term, and might encourage Microsoft to keep ignoring the fundamental issues with Windows Update...

<comment><USER76> You can go to Group Policy and select the desired level of control. No problem with that whatsoever. These control points are not present in conventional UI nowadays, but they are there in Group Policies, and it's a piece of cake to tune them up to your preference.

<comment><AUTHOR> Do Home users have group policy?

<comment><USER77> No, that requires Pro.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER78> At this point, Microsoft will need to re-write Windows to get it to any level near an acceptable user-friendly OS. It'll never happen though.

</comment><comment><USER79> Automatic updates can be disabled with 2 clicks of a mouse. That's it, 2. I can't believe we are still in a culture that only hates Microsoft while pretending that Apple, Alphabet, Ubuntu, and others don't practice the same questionable behavior on a daily basis. This article and the so-called study are narrowminded garbage.

</comment><comment><USER75> Pro edition users are too.

<comment><USER77> AFAIK you can easily disable updates with pro using group policy.

</comment></comment><comment><USER80> Not all updates are the same. I run Enterprise LTSC which only gets security and bug fixes every few weeks. These are small and have limited impact on your day to day use. Its the old static Windows model.

Its the feature updates that are the problem. And you literally can't defer those on Home.

</comment><comment><USER81> It amazing me how unprofessional the software industry has become. Users have had what they're willing to tolerate so steadily pushed against that they've all just become this industry's beta b----es. But hey, we get to drink beer and play games and get free food.

</comment><comment><USER82> Those forces an automatic restart while I'm working and have windows open... it closes all the windows and loses all my work. This is such a wonderful feature.

</comment><comment><USER83> I've twice lost my WSL Ubuntu installation after an update. Poof, just gone after the reboot. Has anyone else experienced this? (Win 10 Home)

</comment><comment><USER84> The fundamental issue here is simple:

1) In 2019, in order to be secure, a computer needs some bare minimum of sysadmin. 2) Computers are like people -- herd immunity helps a lot. Unmaintained PCs are not merely a threat to their owners, but can be used as part of botnets for all sorts of things that jeopardize security for lots of people. 3) Most users are incapable of being their own sysadmin, and there are a lot of people who either don't understand that they even have such a need or suffer from a lot of Dunning-Kruger.

So, with the switch to Perpetual Windows, Microsoft has taken on a lot of things that people either ignored or did poorly before, and they want to know why they can't go back to ignoring them or doing them poorly. A not insubstantial part of the reputation Windows 10 has for being user-hostile is because of the difficulty of doing this at scale combined with the fact that some users act pretty hostile themselves, from a herd immunity perspective. Those are the Windows equivalent of anti-vax parents who complain about the school system being hostile to them just for bringing back measles.

Windows is never going to be as secure as Android/iOS, with their ability to bring a new security model to things. But Windows 10 is a lot more secure than any Windows before it, and a lot of the reasons people think Microsoft are "ruining" Windows are part of why it's getting more secure.

<comment><USER85> > In 2019, in order to be secure, a computer needs some bare minimum of > sysadmin.

That is true _only of security patches_.

> So, with the switch to Perpetual Windows, Microsoft has taken on a lot of > things that people either ignored or did poorly before, and they want to > know why they can't go back to ignoring them or doing them poorly.

No. Prior to Windows 10, users weren't forced to install feature updates on MS's aggressive schedule. They were given _much_ more software stability.

I don't think anyone would be complaining if all MS did with Windows 10 was force home users to install security updates regularly. The problem is that in addition to that, Microsoft decided to _also_ aggressively force half-baked feature updates on them _and_ simultaneously draft them as release testers for professional editions.

</comment></comment><comment><USER86> The metered connection setting is a must. Windows 10 is a tremendous OS once you tell Microsoft to back off.

[https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4028458/windows- met...](https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4028458/windows-metered- connections-in-windows-10)

</comment><comment><USER87> Archlinux updates operating system, all drivers and all installed programs with one command. Takes 5 minutes. Windows update is a joke.

</comment><comment><USER88> They're right to be baffled.

Windows 10 is a schizophrenic mess of half-baked ideas and abusive telemetry collection, which is a shame because the performance boost it gave to games wasn't insignificant.

</comment><comment><USER89> I'm baffled by videos that autoplay on websites.

<comment><USER90> The browser deserves equal blame. If yours doesn't give the option to disable it, know that there are ones that do.

</comment></comment><comment><USER91> While this is true, I see a lot of comments recommending "better" operating systems like Linux based distributions... but try getting the general public to use Linux based OSes and you'll find more problems than just automatic updates.

<comment><USER92> It's ok when more companies switch over to linux aswel you'll start to see ordinary users more accepting of ditching windows 10.. MS has turned windows into complete garbage.

</comment></comment><comment><USER93> I think they miss one important point: the fact that Microsoft even needs to do a restart at all.

It is very rare for a Linux district to require a restart. Even some kernel updates don't need a restart. But Microsoft needs a restart regardless of what they are updating. It's ridiculous.</comment>


IFrames - Why?  How do we stop the madness? - <AUTHOR>

google.com gmail.com (logged in)
And other sites utilize iFrames?  Why?  I try to explain to devs that I deal with that iFrames are worse than table based layouts for presentation.  I make the case that iFrames should only be utilized for tracking/ads/etc.  The response I get is, "Google uses them."
What are legitimate and illegitimate uses of iFrames?
How do you use them?  What lengths did you go to get rid of them?  Was it worth it? <comment><USER2> I find iFrames messy, and only will use them as a last resort.

To answer your question, I have used them in instances where security or lack of an API makes it impossible to do otherwise (an example was for a chamber of commerce site using web widgets from a company that provided them as an add-on to a PC based SaaS product).

I have also used them when there was not a budget to recode a a stand alone web gaming application that needed to be placed into Facebook.

In a perfect world, I would never use them when starting from scratch and would search for an API or other alternative.

</comment><comment><USER3> I used iframe in two yet-to-be-released security products. Both uses iframe to displays site-specific information to user securely. Neither are used for tracking users.</comment>


A proposal for a service to make random people famous - <AUTHOR> http://mindrosity.blogspot.com/2007/07/making-random-people-famous.html

<comment> mark-t How many people host their websites where they could handle a lot of traffic? I sure don't. Up until last year, mine was running on a 586 with 32 MB of EDO- RAM (remember that stuff?), from my parents' house.

I think you'd have to stick to myspace pages, and, well, I think we both know that's a bad idea.</comment>


Benchmarking Tableau's S-1: How Key SaaS Metrics Stack Up - <AUTHOR> http://tomtunguz.com/tableau-s-1/ <comment><USER2> Incredibly insightful... but doesn't address the main question the analysis raises: How long does this train keep running? When does this tap our its market since growth of the market is the key to revenue?

That question is beyond the scope of the S-1 analysis, but that's the bet in investing in this company.</comment>


Coronavirus Genome Xkcd #2298 - <AUTHOR> https://xkcd.com/2298/ <comment><AUTHOR> I wonder how much truth there is in this cartoon. Can anybody point me to actual state-of-the-art software for genetic research?</comment>


What would a UK flag look like without Scotland? - chestnut-tree http://www.creativereview.co.uk/cr-blog/2014/august/what-the-fuk

<comment><AUTHOR> _As he conquered countries, Napoleon replaced their 'old' flags with the new tricolore. Belgium, the Netherlands, Italy... I imagine he had a plan to reflag all of Europe. Several countries in Europe have subsequently adopted a tricolore._

I'm not sure how much research was actually done into flags here. It's well- known that tricolour flags spread as a symbol of revolution and republicanism. The UK most certainly does not fall into this category.

For those with access, this was actually quite informative on the matter of what happens to the rest of the UK if Scotland left.

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04dr69k/scotland- votes...](http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04dr69k/scotland-votes-whats- at-stake-for-the-uk)

</comment><comment><USER2> Here's my take on the redesign of the flag after Scotland's departure:

[http://www.creativereview.co.uk/images/uploads/2014/08/union...](http://www.creativereview.co.uk/images/uploads/2014/08/unionjack_0.jpg)

It's the same, the part of the flag that was once representing Scotland is now just a blue background; case solved. In fact, I would wager that most folk view that "Scottish part" as nothing more than a background color anyway.

In all seriousness, the idea that the UK would have/need to redesign it's flag, w/ an independent Scotland, just seems preposterous and just plain sad.

To me it's one of the most beautifully designed flags out there -- and let's not forget the $millions in sales it has generated (think Union Jack pillows, dresses etc.) in the pop culture and fashion worlds -- since it (arguably of course) symbolizes that Sixtes "cool factor".

</comment><comment><USER3> A number of countries that incorporate the union flag would also need to consider changing: Australia [1], New Zealand, Niue, Tuvalu, Fiji, The Cook Islands, Bermuda. Also assorted states and provinces: British Columbia, Hawaii, Manitoba, Ontario, Queensland.

[0] [http://www.news.com.au/national/could-the-scottish-vote- for-...](http://www.news.com.au/national/could-the-scottish-vote-for- independence-lead-to-a-change-in-the-australian-flag/story- fncynjr2-1227030134078)

<comment><USER4> No, because those union flags are copied by value into the flags in question. (just trying to bring it back to programming)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> It's fun to have fun with flags, but the flag of the UK (they'll keep the initials) will be the Union Flag. It's an iconic design and the last thing they'll want to do is emphasise that some big change has occurred.

Also, the red saltire component of the UF represents Ireland, which became a proper country last century, resulting in no alteration to the UF ;)

<comment><USER5> This is all assuming Scotland will actually vote yes-the polls would seem to be iffy on that. And I think it makes sense that people, when faced with a momentous decision like this at the polls, will probably play it safe when they actually vote.

<comment><USER4> This is fair comment, although a new poll just came out showing the gap narrowing from 14 percentage points to 6.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> The Horizontal and interpretative vertical Spanish flag are wrong. The Spanish Constitution stipulates the yellow band to be twice as tall as the reds [0]. That is 25% Red, 50% yellow, 25% red.

[0][http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandera_de_Espa%C3%B1a](http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandera_de_Espa%C3%B1a)

</comment><comment><USER7> What a nightmare it would be to update the UK flag in language selections everywhere...

</comment><comment><USER8> I wonder if this will once spark debate back home in Australia about changing the Aussie flag.

[https://www.google.com/search?q=australian+flag+new+design](https://www.google.com/search?q=australian+flag+new+design)

Same goes for NZ, Fiji and Tuvalu... not to mention many states, provinces and cities....

</comment><comment><USER9> According to ISO, Wales is a Country[1], not a "Principality".

[1] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-2:GB](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-2:GB)

</comment><comment><USER10> Very funny post with clever insights (especially Kevin's!)

Go fUK! ;-)

</comment><comment><USER11> For the benefit of anyone who's shocked/surprised/amazed that Scotland could be about to leave the UK...

Only one opinion poll, out of 82 conducted since the beginning of 2012 has suggested that the vote would be in favour of independence. See [http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/scottish-independence- referendu...](http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/scottish-independence-referendum)

So dinnae fret! Sco'land isnae gae'in' naewhir!

</comment><comment><USER12> This might be pedantic, but the union jack was designed to combine the flags of Ireland, England and Scotland (back in 1606 originally it seems: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Jack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Jack)). So when Ireland left the union, it didn't drop off the flag (I don't know the logic exactly, but there was a period of disagreement about the relative independence of Ireland, so that might have influenced).

<comment><USER11> Only part of Ireland left the Union. Northern Ireland remains a part of the UK.

<comment><USER13> That may be true, but it's also a pretty contentious statement as for all intents and purposes Ireland wanted to separate from Britain.

<comment><USER11> I'm Irish. I _have_ to be contentious. It's the law (on _both_ sides of the border).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Uhhhhhhhhhh...a red cross on a white field? Maybe with a little dragon somewhere - until Wales breaks away?</comment>


DoorDash will change controversial tipping model - <AUTHOR> https://techcrunch.com/2019/07/24/doordash-changes-tipping/ <comment><USER2> I have and have had regular conversations with the delivery folk about this topic, and even as recently as last week they still don't see any difference in their tip. As a result I switched to putting in 0 tip and giving cash when I have it, and have significant confirmation that a large number of people in my area do something similar.

</comment><comment><USER3> One question I had from the beginning is, how much of this problem was cultural? That is, would this same policy have met with similar resistance in other countries, or does America have a singular belief in the fact that one ought to be explicitly rewarded for ones effort? The issue as quoted in the article seems to be that users were outraged that their tips did not go directly to the drivers. However, they did not accept the explanation that this system paid more drivers more money (at least according to the company's statements). It seems almost selfish that we would value our individual contributions that highly that we would risk punishing drivers. What do others think?

<comment><USER4> I'm American born and raised. I find tipping as it has become in America to be abhorrent. It's purported to be a bonus for good service, but if I'm given poor service, the social expectation is that I still add at least 15% in tips or I'm stingy and rude. It's never even considered that perhaps the one paying my waiters is the stingy, rude one. Hiding an additional mandatory fee and enforcing it through social dynamics between two people who experience it as something entirely different from what it is purported to be while continuing to insist it's just a bonus is simply rotten. Tips should not be an expectation, and if it takes doing away with them entirely to separate ourselves from that expectation, so be it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> 1 So it looks like DoorDash still hasn't done anything about it.

2\. " __The company isn't releasing all the details yet __, but the key change is that "Dashers' earnings will increase by the exact amount a customer tips on every order." "

Why does it take months to strategize this out. If it were as simple as, "we're not doing our previously crappy behavior" it seems like they'd announce it in that presser. The fact that there are "details" leads me to think they're just looking for another weasely way to keep the same behavior.

</comment><comment><USER6> This article is from July...</comment>


Notch programming a Doom-like in Dart - <AUTHOR> http://www.hitbox.tv/notch <comment><USER2> I'm so impressed watching Notch program in realtime. "Last Minute Christmas Chopping" was an eye opener for me. ([http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/ludum- dare-28/?action=preview...](http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/ludum- dare-28/?action=preview&uid=398)). I was totally baffled when he started to draw the ascii character map pixel by pixel in an 48h competition, but the result was usable and actually quite simple.

My takeaway is this: Doing something quick and dirty for a first draft and improve it later on often leads to better results in the long run than planing and over-engineering a solution beforehand, because you can start refining details much earlier or throw away bad approaches without investing too much time.

What I don't get is, why he seems to like Dart so much. Don't get me wrong: I love Dart as an language. The syntax looks very familiar to someone coming from c#, adds syntactic sugar and the editor, with line step debugger, is great. But in the end it's still javascript which makes it hard to create native and mobile builds. Wouldn't Haxe be more suitable?

<comment><USER3> Your takeaway reminds me of this quote from John Carmack:

"Focused, hard work is the real key to success. Keep your eyes on the goal, and just keep taking the next step towards completing it. _If you aren 't sure which way to do something, do it both ways and see which works better_."

I wish I followed it more :)

<comment><USER4> that's an amazing quote. thanks for sharing!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Watching Notch hacking on the Ludum Dare competition is such a comforting experience - to me he is the Bob Ross of game development. He also seems to end up developing the same thing over and over again with different shades of green on the leaves.

Even though you may don't like his style, you have to admire his pragmatism, productivity and humbleness.

<comment><USER6> That's so dismissive, Bob Ross was the running ironic joke of the painting world.

<comment><USER7> I would say that Bob Ross being the running ironic joke of the painting world says a lot more about the painting world than it does about Bob Ross. Every episode I watched contained a man with the calm manner of Mr. Rogers guiding his watchers through the process of creating something, providing them constant reassurance that they possessed the ability to create art and that they weren't making mistakes but merely going through the process of creation.

A quick trip over to reddit will reveal dozens, perhaps hundreds, of posts from people who have followed Bob Ross' methods and create a piece of art that brings them joy and satisfaction despite possibly a lifetime of doubting that they had the ability. In that sense I rank him up there amongst other great teachers who have been able to find methods that allow people to get past the initial stages of self-doubt and embarassment and begin participating in a fulfilling activity. Think "The Inner Game of Tennis" or "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain". Anyone who can let the everyman participate in the satisfaction that comes with creating something is pretty darned ok in my books.

I am not sure if Notch quite lives up to that legacy, but it is a comparison that I think anyone should be flattered to receive.

<comment><USER8> interesting fact, Bob Ross was a drill sergeant:

"I was the guy who makes you scrub the latrine, the guy who makes you make your bed, the guy who screams at you for being late to work. The job requires you to be a mean, tough person. And I was fed up with it. I promised myself that if I ever got away from it, it wasn't going to be that way anymore." [1]

[1] [http://www.military.com/veteran-jobs/career- advice/military-...](http://www.military.com/veteran-jobs/career- advice/military-transition/famous-veteran-bob-ross.html)

<comment><USER9> There is a reason the military limits how long a person can be a drill sergeant for. 2 years, iirc, with an option for 1 more. My step father was a drill sergeant.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Notch uploaded the code to GitHub:

[https://github.com/xNotch/dark](https://github.com/xNotch/dark)

</comment><comment><USER11> I'm amazed how much of editing he actually does by hand (like growing/shrinking indentation) and mouse. That sort of switching between actual coding and lexical editing would kill my flow.

<comment><USER12> Yeah, he's switching eclipse tabs by using the mouse! Another reminder to not obsess over development tool choice, and just get things done.

<comment><USER13> I think I spend most of my time reading, navigating and debugging code.

IDE developers should do more heavy lifting to support these use-cases imho.

I really like what the SourceGraph people are doing ([https://sourcegraph.com/](https://sourcegraph.com/))

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Notch's Ludum Dare video for Metagun ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV- AFnCkRLY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV-AFnCkRLY)) was inspiration for a series of scripts I now use for clients and my own entertainment purposes (for some loose definition of "entertainment").

It's a series of shell scripts I use that screencap videos of coding and set them to music (so, for example, rendering a 48-hour coding competition to a 5-minute song, or as I more typically do for clients, render the development process down to a few minutes for them to watch in fast-time how their development was done).

It's called watchmecode ([https://github.com/choptastic/watchmecode](https://github.com/choptastic/watchmecode)) and I just have to do

      ./make-av-video.sh /path/to/video.mpg /path/to/song.mp3

And it does the rest, and outputs it to "done.mp4"

The result is something that looks like this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hwn7mfmo0SQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hwn7mfmo0SQ)

(disclaimer, I've plugged this before on HN: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5685859](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5685859))

<comment><USER15> Chronolapse can do this on Windows for those looking for an alternative: [https://code.google.com/p/chronolapse/](https://code.google.com/p/chronolapse/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> I found these hilarious: [https://github.com/xNotch/dark/issues](https://github.com/xNotch/dark/issues)

<comment><USER12> My favorite: [https://github.com/xNotch/dark/issues/13](https://github.com/xNotch/dark/issues/13)

Note the username.

<comment><USER17> Looks like John opened an account just to file the issue: "Joined on Aug 25, 2014"[1]

[1]: [https://github.com/jcarmack](https://github.com/jcarmack)

<comment><USER18> John - or a random guy/troll that thought that username would be funny?

Did the real John Carmack endorse this account somewhere (Twitter, elsewhere)?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> So how does his process work? Does he start with the original C engine source and start porting to Dart? Does he do some of the work beforehand?

<comment><USER20> It does it mostly all in his head. He's built a fair amount of rendering engines so he knows all the basics of how to do it.

<comment><USER19> That is impressive if true. Does he also figure out how to read the WAD files himself too for level geometry and textures? I just find it hard to believe he isn't referencing the original source at all...

<comment><USER21> Well, the title is "Notch programming a Doom-like in Dart." So, it doesn't sound like it's a port of Doom, just a game that's like Doom.

<comment><USER22> Was watching and the level he loaded was definitely a Doom one. Looked like the WAD was in his assets.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> For me personally it is interesting to see that Notch seems to prefer Dart Editor (Built on the Eclipse platform) over something like Intellij IDEA or Webstorm ([https://www.dartlang.org/tools/webstorm/](https://www.dartlang.org/tools/webstorm/)).

<comment><USER10> He doesn't seem to like it: "Argh! This editor pretty horrible" \- Notch (Aug 25 2014 19:37 UTC)

<comment><USER3> Also something like "Argh! This doesn't let me use the mouse... I have to wrestle this" \- Notch (Aug 25 2014 19:49 UTC)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Each time there's a Ludum Dare or someone prolific livestreams themselves coding (usually Notch) I get all excited and want to do the same but I can never find a website or platform which really caters to coders. Am I alone in this? Is there somewhere? Is there actually any demand for this?

Either way, I've created a quick landing page to see if anyone would actually be interested in a live streaming site specifically for coding - [http://devv.tv](http://devv.tv)

It's nothing pretty but some validation or feedback before I jump head first into this would be amazing.

<comment><USER24> I've had this idea as well. It would really scratch my own itch so I definitely hope someone makes it!

Focusing on live coding would open up a lot of possibilities as well. How about hooking up the source code next to the stream in real time? The ability to paste snippets to the audience etc etc.

<comment><USER23> Yes! These are definitely the sort of features I'll be looking to build as I think they'll be key to gaining attention by offering something not available as seamlessly elsewhere.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Maybe it's time for me to quit the VIM/Emacs addiction.

<comment><USER26> People are addicted? News to me.

I've been using VI/VIM for decades. If I am looking at a piece of code, I don't think too much about how to move around, or delete lines, or such. It mostly happens while I'm thinking of higher level issues.

Fixing indent issues is just a couple keystrokes, so that reduces my distraction too.

Practice, practice, practice with the tools you are going to use every day.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> I think it's great to see some live programming, with all the goofs and dead ends. While I appreciate the prepared demos that are common at conferences and elsewhere, they are more of a quick way to provide an intro to something new, and I feel they can give beginners the wrong idea about how real programming works. Seeing the whole development process, warts and all, live like this is amazingly educational. Props for doing this Notch!

</comment><comment><USER3> Btw, this is 2014 and I feel like we would already be able to play a simple game like Doom in the browser, just like the real thing. But no..

\--edit--

...multiplayer with several people, of course.

<comment><USER28> You'd think so, wouldn't you?

[https://wiki.mozilla.org/Legal/Infringement_Notices/3_June_2...](https://wiki.mozilla.org/Legal/Infringement_Notices/3_June_2011)

<comment><USER3> :(

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> I missed the livestreams due to opposite timezones. Are there archives of the videos? Can't seem to find the button on hitbox.

</comment><comment><USER30> I can't change the streaming quality? Is this a bug?

</comment><comment><USER31> It sucks that hitbox doesn't work on mobile.

<comment><USER32> I haven't ever heard of hitbox before - are there other streaming sites out there that are popular other than twitch?

<comment><USER33> Twitch is in the middle of a media fiasco resulting in policy changes.

Hitbox and other twitch like platforms already existed but are enjoying people mass moving from twitch.

:.:.:

>What happened?

Twitch introduced a new service to flag copyrighted music, and. The problem is a lot of games have copyrighted music inside of them, so a lot of music was cut out of footage simply because you couldn't stream the music, just the games footage.

Valve actually had most the sound removed from their "The International" DotA2 tournament. Because in-game music was owned by Valve. As an example. Even twitch's own podcasts were flaged and muted due to this.

Twitch started enforcing a 30second + stream delay, which angered both Users and Streamers. Since it removed the instant feedback/conversation from the stream.

Twitch also deleted terabytes of recorded video on a policy change.

You can get the long version from the AMA Twitch.tv's CEO did during the middle of this _shit storm_ [http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2cwfu2/i_am_twitch_ceo...](http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2cwfu2/i_am_twitch_ceo_emmett_shear_ask_me_almost)

<comment><USER34> So basically they got big enough that they had to start taking copyright seriously, then users switch to other services causing them to grow....

<comment><USER33> The issue wasn't so much that, they were taking copyright seriously. Its how they handled taking copyright seriously.

Their practice was Draconian, even if _the streamer_ owned the copy right, they still have to appeal to have their content posted. Even twitch took down their own videos explain how this system works, due to copyrighted music.

This has been going on for >2 weeks without much change.

<comment><USER34> Isn't this similar to youtube? It seems that all services end of with draconian policies when they get big enough.

<comment><USER35> The difference is YouTube is on at least a couple magnitudes larger scale. Furthermore, YouTube doesn't create content and host that, it only hosts the content, allowing for a much easier way to share copy-written material. On Twitch, the things they are muting are recorded videos of streams of their own site. Note the difference here. There's not an easy way to take say a movie and upload it to twitch VoDs in a reasonable amount of time. Lastly, the entire VoD is muted, even if its background music, game music, etc. and most of the time the key sound element is the streamer himself/herself, which is completely lost with muting system. Also why can they not just respond to DMCA requests? There is nothing that has been shown that they are receiving an inordinate amount of DMCA requests that would be impossible to handle with a more refined approach.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> It has now ended.

</comment><comment><USER36> Hey Notch, why Dart?

<comment><USER34> Is notch a HN member?

<comment><USER37> he just said on the stream he "likes HN but doesn't hang out on HN because there's too many nerds"

<comment><USER38> It's funny when nerds don't like other nerds for being nerds. But so typical of human nature...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> Clicked, watched someone's screen reading the same messages I was reading with "Bubble butt" in the background for 1 minute, then closed and commented this...</comment>


Access your music from anywhere without uploading - <AUTHOR> http://www.jukefly.com/

<comment><USER2> I'm a student and was working on this exact idea, except I didn't want to force the user to download a desktop app, e.g., upload through your browser.

Competition is a good thing, though, I guess.

I need to kick it in the ass.

<comment><USER3> Can you write something like this using a shoutcast server on your desktop and a flash shoutcast client? Both are basically freely available (seems like writing a shoutcast server is the new hello world application).

<comment><USER2> Well, it seems to me to be simpler to just have the user upload music to the website. Why force users to download an executable? I should be paying attention to my computer architecture class, instead I'm frantically working on the uploader for my site :-D

EDIT: I see your point. That seems to be a desired feature, but it isn't the priority. I think the priority now is to make it easiest for the most users. I think uploading is the best way to do that.

<comment><USER4> I see no point to the upload method, at least for myself. I would not want to upload gigs of music, I would rather just stream it like this service. I used to do this with FTP but this looks like a more elegant solution to running an FTP server.

<comment><USER2> I can understand that. However, my target audience is not the hacker news readership :-D

My target was people who don't want to set up a streaming server from their desktop computer, so they can upload the music.

I wasn't actually aware of anywhere.fm. It seems to be written all in flash (or flex) and I really don't like that. So mine is mostly javascript and css/html.

<comment><USER3> Can you actually stream music in pure Javascript? Or are you planning to keep the UI in HTML and just use a small flash plugin for the actual streaming? I like that idea, I'll volunteer as a beta tester for when you need some.

<comment><USER2> I was planning on using a small flash player for the music, and a small flash uploader. The player actually works fairly well, but the uploader is causing problems.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> If you go down a couple songs down, you can hear an acoustic version of "Baby got Back" Oh, does it bring back memories.

</comment><comment><USER6> Please throw an iPhone compatible interface on top of this

</comment><comment><USER7> are these guys a YComb startup?

<comment><USER8> nope

</comment></comment><comment><USER2> is this your site?

<comment><AUTHOR> no, not my site. A great idea though.

<comment><USER2> I'm working on the exact same idea. Good to see competition, but bad because I have been slacking off.

Time to kick it in the ass.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: How to distribute wildcard subdomains to different servers - <AUTHOR>

I have a list of subdomains pointing to one server (18.104.22.168) right now.
1001.example.com 1002.example.com 1003.example.com 1004.example.com 1005.example.com 1006.example.com
I want to run the next set of subdomains on a different server (18.104.22.168):
2001.example.com 2002.example.com 2003.example.com 2004.example.com 2005.example.com 2006.example.com
I don't want configure each individual subdomain. I'd rather do configuration for a range, like:
[1000-1999].example.com => 22.214.171.124 [2000-2999].example.com => 220.127.116.11 [3000-3999].example.com => 220.127.116.11
I tried to search for answers to this problem but I'm not even sure for what to search. Has anyone done this kind of thing? <comment><USER2> I don't believe DNS supports regex and in fact a comment thread from 2010 on OpenDNS specifically states they do not support it [1]. A very simple solution for this is a load balancer. Nginx [2] works quite well and routing is a breeze. The downside is maintaining the instance on which all of your traffic flows. You'll likely need a hotswappable fail over hosted in a different data center to be safe.

[1] - [https://forums.opendns.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=8440](https://forums.opendns.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=8440) [2] - [http://wiki.nginx.org/Main](http://wiki.nginx.org/Main)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Daddy, what's "tax"? - <AUTHOR>

My daughter just asked me this.  I could only laugh. <comment><USER2> Take half her toys away, and say "I just taxed you."

<comment><USER3> This is an absolutely beautiful way to define it! Made me laugh. Thank, you.

Now, give her a toy she doesn't like and say this is what you just paid for.

But before you let her get too mad, tell her to go ride her bike and inform her that the toys she gave up helped pay for the streets/sidewalk on which she rides her bike.

Not perfect, but could be worse.

<comment><USER4> And that it also pays for your friend's cigars. Because the banksters have to be represented in this analogy too.

<comment><USER4> I'm surprised I'm downvoted for this, perhaps someone would explain why -- a significant percentage of budget goes to fund politician's friends and supporters. Specifically, the $700B bank bailout of 2008 went to pay for reckless bets by bankers. (Which were all too happy to take the profits, when they were there, to themselves)

How is that not part of the tax system?

<comment><USER2> I was down-voted quite a bit for my original, short, un-opinionated comment, which really surprised me.

I think anytime you touch on a politically relevant topic, a lot of people will dislike it, no matter what it is. Unless its like a human rights issues like current Egyptian affairs.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> "It's like trying to eat, but before you can bite, someone takes some of the food off your spoon."

<comment><USER5> "It's like trying to eat, but before you can bite, you have to pay for your share of the spoon."

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I know most of the people here did not take this seriously, but in an ideal world this is how taxes would work (I am no economist so take this with a grain of salt, this is what I think should happen).

"Government needs money to run. They have to develop infrastructures and pay salary of public servants. Also they have to provide welfare to under privileged and subsidies to student communities and such. They cannot just print infinite number of notes so they have to take money from the current cash flow. The cash flow here means things like purchases, salaries, revenue, real estate etc. Now, to do that they have to decide how much to take from whom. They cannot take a fix amount as not every mode of cashflow would be viable with that fix amount. So they decide how much to pull from where. Thus on income we have income tax. But that too is not fixed. You pay depending upon the size of your income and nothing else. Thus ideally, the rich pay more and poor pay less. On the other hand, you have things like sales tax, where the government takes a fixed percentage of all the sales made by a company.

In short the government takes some amount of your money each time you make a transaction... well most of the times. But rest assured, your money comes back to you. The government gives it back in terms of infrastructure or services or carnivals or social security or things like that."

I know this is not perfect, nor is it what happens in the real world. But this is what should happen I think.

<comment><USER7> _They cannot just print infinite number of notes_

Actually, they could. Printing say 1 note for every 9 notes in existence would lead to an inflation of around 11% and is equivalent to a uniform property tax of 10%.

The reasons we don't do things that way I can think of are:

\- it would make inflation huge (government spending typically is over 30% of GDP; that would give over 50% inflation)

\- it was not possible under the gold standard.

\- people would feel it as unjust that one's cash and bank accounts are 'taxed', but e.g. houses one owns are not.

\- because of the former, it would tax the poor way more than the rich.

It would be a really good way to stimulate consumer spending, though.

<comment><USER8> Also, people would eventually stop using the government's currency, the bank notes it printed would then be worthless, and the government would have to start explicitly taxing again. Only now it would have an economy denominated in a foreign currency.

<comment><USER6> In short, _They cannot just print infinite number of notes_</comment></comment></comment></comment>


'Airbnb for Film' Links Homeowners and Location Scouts - <AUTHOR> http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2016/05/31/airbnb-for-film-links-homeowners-and-location-scouts/ <comment><USER2> Queue porno outrage article in 3..2..1..</comment>


Ask HN: Furlough + Overtime, is this legal? - <AUTHOR> My company has put us on two furlough weeks over the previous 6 months.  Now I've heard we're going to have another one this quarter.  The catch this time is that we've been asked to work 7 days a week this month to finish a release.  It feels crazy to me that I'd have to work -significant- overtime one month and then be furloughed the next. Is this legal?<p>(Rant: Obviously this is a retarded business practice. Who wants employees that are only profitable 48 out of 52 weeks of the year?) <comment><USER2> For a question like this, you should say roughly where you are. Employment laws vary greatly by country and state.

Also, even when you have a technical violation of law, unless you are relatively powerless without other options, you may be best served by exercising your right to find other employment.

From what I know of jurisdictions where I've worked (US, California and Texas), I can't think of a specific law the practice you describe would violate, as long as each of the furlough period, and the overtime sessions, are individually done legally. (Having them in rapid succession doesn't seem a relevant factor.) However, IANAL.

</comment><comment><USER3> Well, you've "been asked" to do it.. employment is always "at will" ;).

Assuming you are an exempt worker (non-hourly), they obviously don't have to pay you for overtime, but you do have to be off a "full week" for a furlough week to count. If you do any work during the furlough week you will have to be paid, as far as I know.

You might want to check your employment contract or employee handbook and see if there are clauses about what they expect from a "typical workweek" or anything like that. Otherwise I don't think it is necessarily illegal. You can always call your state or federal Department of Labor and ask, or take it up with your company's HR department. Though if I were you I would fervently seek other opportunities ;).

</comment><comment><USER4> It happens all the time in manufacturing. Run double shifts to meet a customer's deadline, then lay 60% of the staff off. Same with construction. Not necessarily the best way to build a stable workforce, but in as far as IANAL, completely legal in the US unless it violates an employment contract or industry specific Federal regulations.

On the other hand, forcing people to take time off after an extended push probably has some benefits on productivity. A month of 7 day work weeks will turn rank and file production staff into zombies.</comment>


Web - Hadoop - Pig - Excel Connector - <AUTHOR> http://rjurneyopen.s3.amazonaws.com/CloudStenographyDemo1.mov

<comment><USER2> This is a .mov file !

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, nothing else would compress worth a crap and retain the pretty. Not acceptable, I know.</comment></comment>


Ward is doing it again - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/WardCunningham/Smallest-Federated-Wiki

<comment><USER2> There was a submission about this yesterday:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2892085>

That links through to demonstration videos by Ward himself:

<http://wardcunningham.github.com/>

Comments over here - <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2895342> \- suggest that some HN participants don't actually understand what a wiki really is, or its history.

Don't know why, but I find that a bit sad. A bit like not knowing about _why.</comment>


Google Terminal - <AUTHOR> http://elgoog.im/terminal/

<comment><USER2> I think it would improve usability to accept only spacebar to scroll, that way if you see a result you like on the first page, you can just enter its number without scrolling through the rest.

</comment><comment><USER3> Not as good as [http://goosh.org/](http://goosh.org/).

</comment><comment><USER4> Don't waste your time.

<comment><AUTHOR> What's wrong? Bad day? Have a coffee.</comment></comment>


Gary V: storytelling, without it, even the best startups fail - <AUTHOR> http://delvenews.com/wonklens/gary-vaynerchuk/

<comment><USER2> No mention of failure? What things has Gary V failed at?

<comment><AUTHOR> I think he would say he hasn't failed at his ventures because he's so tirelessly engaged with his users.</comment></comment>


Man died in a burning Tesla because its futuristic doors wouldn't open - <AUTHOR> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/10/23/man-died-burning-tesla-because-its-futuristic-doors-wouldnt-open-lawsuit-alleges/ <comment> m-p-3 AFAIK, with the newer Model 3 you have to push with your thumb on the larger part to make the handle pull out, in a kind of lever action.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObhEPkJPBNc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObhEPkJPBNc)

Having an entirely electronic door handle seems dangerous to me, you don't want it to fail at a critical moment such as this one.

Maybe the lever one is the way to go in the future, even though it's not intuitive. First time I had to go in, I wasn't sure what to do so I couldn't blame a first responder not to know what to do on their first encounter with that kind of handle.

<comment><USER2> > Having an entirely electronic door handle seems dangerous to me, you don't > want it to fail at a critical moment such as this one.

I thought the same when it comes to entirely electronic steering. Although maybe they're not doing that yet.</comment></comment>


SpaceX asked to pay $50M after losing a satellite - <AUTHOR> https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/04/spacex-asked-for-compensation-after-incident/ <comment><USER2> ??

It was insured or it wasn't.

I don't get it. Obviously this was a possibility. What's there to ask?

You just do exactly what the contracts say in the exact manner that was pre determined years ago during the risk analysis from both sides.

<comment><USER3> It seems there was insurance on the satellite but not on the rocket. The insurance didn't cover it blowing up during the prelaunch testing phase. The third article states they are getting insurance monies and having SpaceX launch another rocket instead of taking the $50m. So, take your guess as to what the real story is at this point.

[http://time.com/money/4478053/musk-spacex-rocket- insurance/](http://time.com/money/4478053/musk-spacex-rocket-insurance/)

[http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-02/when-a- com...](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-02/when-a-commercial- rocket-blows-up-who-pays)

[http://www.spaceflightinsider.com/organizations/space- explor...](http://www.spaceflightinsider.com/organizations/space-exploration- technologies/spacecom-to-claim-compensation-from-iai-spacex-for-amos-6-loss/)</comment></comment>