Major improvements to audio at Zencoder, and why this matters - <AUTHOR> http://blog.zencoder.com/2011/07/20/major-improvements-to-audio-at-zencoder-and-why-this-matters/

<comment><USER2> General nitpick for articles like this: if you improved X about your service by switching from application A to application B, simply say it. Phrasing like that used in this article implies (falsely) that Zencoder wrote their own encoder.

"We made our web server 5 times faster!" might sound amazing, but if you really mean "we switched from Apache to Nginx", it's misleading.

Also, FAAC is widely known to be pretty bad. Even LAME MP3 is quite a bit better at 128kbps, to say nothing of Vorbis, good AAC encoders like Nero or Apple, and Opus/CELT.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yep, we didn't write our own encoder - we evaluated and licensed a third party encoder. Article edited to make this more clear. The problem (at this point at least) is that our software licensing agreement with the third party includes confidentiality, so we can't name the software without permission. Stupid, I know. But you can probably guess, or figure out, what it is. ;)

<comment><USER3> I've seen confidentiality the other way (where a vendor can't say who their customers are) but why would someone not want a customer to tell the world how great their software is?

<comment><USER4> Only reason I can think is that if the customer messes up the implementation and creates a subpar service with it then it reflects poorly on the source provider.

Actually another reason might be that the source provider doesn't want other users to know about each other to compare licensing agreements and such.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I thought it was a well-known fact that FAAC produced very bad output. Or at least well known by anyone who might be working for a company for whom AV compression is all they do.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'd say this is well known with anyone working with open source video tools. And yet it's still in use all over the place, sadly.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> So after all that, what encoder are you using?

</comment><comment><USER7> Which aac encoder does iTunes use? Is it considered pretty good?

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes - iTunes uses Quicktime, and Quicktime has one of the better AAC encoders. Unfortunately, it's not easily executable (or licensable) on Linux.

<comment><USER8> Can you comment on which actual encoder you're now using, or do you consider that a secret?

<comment><AUTHOR> Yep, unfortunately we can't right now. Maybe down the road?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I found the ringing in the new 16kHz sample to be a bit bothersome. It sounds like theres a tonal peak in the frequency response near the upper end of the frequency range. The peak would be less bothersome if it were spread out more.

Edit: is the new resampling done by something like Shibatch SSRC or libsamplerate's SRC?

<comment><AUTHOR> It sounds a bit better outside of Flash, actually. Flash prefers 22050 or 44100 audio and doesn't do a great job of resampling others up to 44100 (which I think is what happens behind the scenes). Give it a listen in Chrome or some such and see what you think.

We aren't using those libraries right now, but we'll check them out. How do they compare to something like SoX?

<comment><USER9> I haven't used SoX extensively since Mandriva was called Mandrake. It looks like the newest version of SoX has a very good converter. The comparison graphs I just found and linked below show that the different converters seem to optimize for different parameters; Shibatch SSRC appears to focus on passband width, while libsamplerate's Secret Rabit Code has better time domain response. If you're using SoX VHQ, you probably can't do much better, unless you find that its time domain response causes undesirable artifacts.

As for the 16kHz sample, listening to the .m4a files directly did give much better results than playing them through Flash.

Anyway, good luck with ZenCoder.

<http://sox.sourceforge.net/SoX/Resampling>

<http://src.infinitewave.ca/>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> This is awesome Jon! What audio processing tricks did you use?

<comment><AUTHOR> Sorry for the slow response. For the most part, it's not tricks, at lest for now - more like using the best available software for resampling, channel mapping, etc. We don't (for instance) automatically mess with normalization/gain, though users can do that though our API.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Can I just have lossless audio, please?

<comment><AUTHOR> Sure. FLAC is great, and it's on our roadmap.

We're in a funny place right now where both higher bitrate and lower bitrate video/audio are becoming increasingly important. Low bitrate because of mobile video and adaptive bitrate streaming, and high bitrate because bandwidth is getting cheaper.</comment></comment>


Being Poor by John Scalzi - <AUTHOR> http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/ <comment><USER2> Being truly poor is not being able to imagine anything else.

Both of my parents grew up with absolutely nothing.

My mother shared a bed with her sisters and wore nothing but hand-me-downs until she got married.

My father never had 3 meals in the same day until he joined the army.

They both tried to explain what life was like to us many times, but every story ended with, "Never mind. You just wouldn't understand."

They were so determined to escape their situations, almost every decision they made as adults was shaped by growing up with nothing. They worked hard almost every day of their lives so that none of us would ever have to experience what they went through. There was never any discussion or debate about what life would be like in our house: we were all going to finish high school, go to college, and build lives of our own. None of us has ever missed a meal or gone without anything essential.

I realize many people are just as determined as my parents were, but still don't escape poverty. There are no guarantees.

I just don't know how anyone can reverse the cycle without imagining that they can. Having no money is bad. Having no hope is worse.

<comment><USER3> This is so very true. I grew up sleeping 3 to a bed, no food, no clothing, and no utilities more often than not. I'd never wish it on my worst enemy's kids. But I would not trade my upbringing at all.

Thankfully that was long ago, but those memories give me the determination, and humility,that i need to advance myself each day.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> _People wondering why you didn't leave_

You can always leave. They're called feet: use them.

I have been very, very poor. And I've made a million bucks in a short amount of time. In fact, I've flopped back and forth about as many times as anybody I know, so I know both sides of this.

I would not idolize poverty as some kind of state of nobility, and I would't spend a lot of time agonizing over it either. It is a thing that happens to you, like cancer. You get to make choices in life, no matter where you are or what your situation. The last day of your life, if you were lying in a ditch somewhere, you can still choose how to confront the end of your existence. These choices are all we own. The only person that can stop you making choices is yourself. It is extremely possible to dwell on all the bad things in life and despair.

If you are poor and reading this, whatever you do, please don't despair. Make some different choices. The only way you're not making a difference in the world is if you've decided that you're not. Don't let others -- no matter how well meaning -- give that to you.

<comment><USER5> "I have been very, very poor."

The key question, then, is whether you were _born and raised_ poor, or did you become poor in your later life. There is a ingrained mental barrier of hopelessness being born into poverty, especially in America where the cycle of poverty consumes communities and perpetuates all manner of things that are easily contested by people on the outside looking in, but is palpable to those trapped within it.

The difference, interestingly enough, can be found in a line in the song "Common People" by the English band Pulp, which follows the story of a rich girl who "slums it" with the poor narrator:

"But still you'll never get it right

cos when you're laid in bed at night

watching roaches climb the wall

if you just called your Dad, he could stop it all

You'll never live like common people"

I was born and raised poor. Like, picking cockroaches out of my cereal box poor. Like, magic block of cheese appearing on the doorstep poor. Like qualifying for free lunch at school poor. Like pink bicycle with sissy bar bought from the thrift shop and handed down from eldest daughter to two youngest sons poor (I broke the cycle of shame with black electrical and silver duct tape).

I never blamed my parents; they were immigrants fleeing an oppressive regime with nothing but a suitcase of hastily gathered clothes, papers, and photos. But, to say it's "just a thing that happens to you, like cancer" doesn't really speak to how stifling poverty can truly be.

My family pulled themselves out of the cycle, but millions don't. MOST don't. Getting out has less to do with "using your feet" and more like pulling an entire base of people out of a mindset that they can't succeed even if they tried their damndest. It's not only cultural, it's systemic.

"The only person that can stop you making choices is yourself.

Not always the case. My wife's family came to this country in 1978. Her father's job for the first five years was to mop the floors and clean toilets at schools, for which he was (legally) paid less than minimum wage because of his immigrant status. Then, the church that promised the family free admittance to their school in exchange for Dad's reduced salary rescinded it upon his offer to take ESL classes by day and cleaning the schools by night. So, he pulled them from that school and into public school, which, because of redistricting and rezoning, was among the poorest and most dangerous in their state. I guess it is about choices, but don't think there aren't people out there who disincentivize you from making them.

Hell, it wasn't that long ago that some people couldn't eat at the same counter equally as others. I mean, could you even make a clear-headed choice in that scenario?

Choices to pull oneself up from a cycle of poverty is as risky as entrepreneurship, perhaps even more so. If you fail at business, you have your firm footing of educational background and network of employees, peers, investors, and family to watch over you and give support. If you fail at pulling yourself from the ghetto, the next stop could be homelessness and the soup kitchen. And, if you have a family, they'll suffer doubly so.

It's almost never cut and dry.

<comment><USER4> Thank you for sharing that. I enjoyed reading it.

I think you misunderstood, however. Nothing is cut and dry. Did I say it was? When I say that you own your choices, I am not promising some kind of magic future if you just get Positive Mental Attitude. This is not a Tony Robbins seminar, and I am not trying to just throw out slogans. I believe most of your reply was based on this premise, and that was not the intent of my comment at all. I am also not trying to get into a "who's the poorest" contest. There are lots of ways these conversations can go off the rails.

As an example, and to specifically counter this idea of quick-fixes, I used the scenario of the person dying from cancer in the ditch. Will proper choices make them any less dead in a day's time? I seriously doubt it, and that's completely not the point.

Any life in any situation can be celebrated and you can use your mind to make choices about your attitudes. People in concentration camps awaiting death can be cheerful. Perhaps you would stop by the ditch an lecture the dying person on the futility of it all, how you knew many people who also died this way, and how painful it was. Perhaps you would go on about the pointlessness of action, and how tens of millions are in the same place and we must do something to begin " pulling an entire base of people out of a mindset" About how few ever make it out.

I would not do this. In fact, I would go so far as to say that those who do this to someone are not their friend.

<comment><USER5> "Perhaps you would stop by the ditch an lecture the dying person on the futility of it all, how you knew many people who also died this way, and how painful it was"

I happily pay my taxes, try to vote with my conscience for those engaged in healthcare reform, and contribute freely to causes to help prevent people dying of cancer in a ditch. It's not self-righteousness or soliciting thanks from poor, sick people or anything else that drives me to do that; it's my belief that we're more than just the successes we've made in this life -- the actions we've managed to perform to get a positive result. There is community outside of the self.

Sometimes people are frozen into a rut because they've never seen what it's like at the top (except for watching those that succeed in nearly impossible scenarios, like sports athletes or heiresses-turned-celebrities), and they likely never will. So, platitudes that "there is a there there" is cold comfort for them. Working hard and still not being able to pass the "first- month rent + last-month rent + security deposit + credit/background check" gauntlet put forth for anyone wanting to break that cycle is oppressive to the psyche.

And, before anyone in this thread ever decides to veer off into blaming "degenerate cultures", I'll cut it off at the pass and say there is about a nickel's worth of difference between being poor in W. Virginia and being poor in Harlem, NYC. It's the same down, with very little upside (aside from working for the mines or for the state, respectively). Makes the sentiment "been down so long, it looks like up to me" even more resonant.

<comment><USER4> I'm not trying to argue, but I believe you don't understand.

My point was that you seem very happy with explaining the systemic reasons for problems, even being very proud of your progressive social attitudes and willingness to pay taxes, but none of that money, explanation, or enlightenment does the actual poor one bit of lasting good. They deal with despair as a primary obstacle. Explaining sociology to them and the systemic nature of poverty does not help them despair less. In fact, and this is critical, for many it may have the effect of making their lives substantially worse. There's a very fine line between explaining a complex problem that you don't currently have the solution to and telling people their life is pointless. In fact they can look and sound like the same thing to an outside observer.

I have no qualm with you -- the things you have said are most likely true -- but there is a difference in talking about a thing from an external clinical standpoint and living the thing, as you know so well.

As a sidebar, why would you even mention that you weren't angry with your parents? It seemed such an odd thing to say. Why would anyone think of being angry with their parents for something like wealth?

I'm done here. Sorry to take the thread so far down. Just sounded like we were talking past each other. Thanks again for the conversation.

<comment><USER5> "none of that money, explanation, or enlightenment does the actual poor one bit of lasting good."

Tell that to Joe the Plumber, who went from growing up on welfare to being the everyman who just wants to run his own plumbing business if it weren't for a then-Presidential candidate taking his money. Ditto Sarah Palin and Craig T. Nelson (who once famously said on the Glenn Beck show, "I've been on food stamps and welfare, did anyone help me out? No!")

I figured you were a "supply-side" kinda guy, so we'll truly never see things eye-to-eye. Fair enough.

Just know that poor people actually _do_ want to know why they're poor, as that kind of sets expectations, pacing, and gives them some wiggle room to strategize solutions to their problem. State support helps them with essentials, education helps ameliorate their thinking, and charitable causes and people give them the helping hand to see through the hardship.

"There's a very fine line between explaining a complex problem that you don't currently have the solution to and telling people their life is pointless."

That's why you give them cold facts and then real solutions based on what you and others have experienced. If you don't want to talk publicly about success, you're essentially telling them, "I'm a millionaire and so can you!" and then leaving. In other words, show don't tell.

"Why would anyone think of being angry with their parents for something like wealth?"

I would be positively _ecstatic_ if I were born into a wealthy family. It would bring no end of awesome, warm feelings. I will never know what that feeling is like, unfortunately, as they were the poorest of immigrants. I was just implying that I didn't begrudge them being poor, as I still had a decent childhood, even in the ghetto.

<comment><USER4> Please don't put me in a box. You don't know me.

Yeah I think there is a deep infection here, but it has nothing to do with poverty. It begins with the idea that if you take social assistance then social assistance must be a good thing. Or that somehow you must support it. As you are demonstrating by your words, this isn't any good at all. For Joe, Sarah, you, or anybody else. This same logic holds that if you don't send your kids into the military, you can't support a war. One supposes that everybody must volunteer at the local fire station or go without emergency support, or that those who took a pencil in second grade must somehow support armed robbery as a way of life. Give a man a fish, and he must support government sanctioned fish distribution for his entire life. It's the one-size-fits-all, if-you-were-touched-by-it-you-must-endorse-it thinking. Not good. Not good for anybody. Let's move past such rhetorical nonsense.

Here's the thing: it's one thing to explain something that you understand and know how to fix. It's quite another to simply cite statistics and general correlations. There are a lot of folks who think that positive mental attitude can lift you out of poverty -- I am one of them. And there are folks that think it is mostly luck. (I also think luck has quite a bit to do with it as well) But I can guarantee you that anybody who thinks that life is pointless will never make it. I also observe that after trillions spent on LBJ's War on Poverty (one hopes it did not involve shooting poor people) we are no further along than when we started. So for all the bluster, we do not have the answer. We have a lot of complex ideas and theories, but we have no answer.

We do not know how to lift people out of poverty. We DO know that hopelessness and despair will prevent folks from succeeding. You can either sit around and dress up correlation as "giving them cold facts" or you can help with attitudes. That's just what every poor person with a poor education needs -- some rich college guy with a $50 vocabulary going on and on about how the system is against them and how they'll never make it.

When I was poor, I knew people like this. Oddly enough, many of them were college educated. It was always pointless, the system was always corrupt, the rich guys always got richer and the poor guys always got the shaft. It's mental disease masquerading as wisdom. Guys who felt that way are either still there, dead, or in prison. You can be in a hopeless situation and still have joy and hope. Unless you listen to some people.

Like I said, you sound more part of the problem than the solution.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> From the comments:

> Being poor is discovering that that letter from Duke University, naming you > as one of three advanced students in your class invited to test out of HS > early into their scholarship program, is just so much firestarter because > the $300 it costs to take the test may as well be $3 million.

Despair is finally realizing, at nearly 36 and with a barely-afforded AA in English from a community college, just where you could have been by now had you had $300, and what that missed opportunity has truly cost you.

<comment><USER7> $300 is 15 lawns mowed, or 2k cans collected, or probably one post on your facebook page asking for donations.

<comment><USER5> "or probably one post on your facebook page asking for donations"

I seriously doubt facebook was around back when this person was in school.

And, how do you mow 15 lawns with no transport, and the people around you are too poor to even have a lawn, let alone have people mow their lawns for them? Hell, where could he even get the lawnmower in the first place?

And, 2000 cans collected is a noble (and green!) act, but there are states where they'll give a big fat nothing for recycling; in fact, the home state of Duke University (NC, USA) doesn't offer money for aluminum like up North, unless you're willing to collect a pound of it and sell it for 20 cents. I guess he could move to another state to get better recycling prices, but then there's moving costs.

Sometimes being poor sucks, and there's NOTHING you can do. Not saying his case was completely hopeless, but it's easy to find solutions when there are zero consequences.

<comment><USER8> There are scrapyards all over the country. See [http://realcent.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=71](http://realcent.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=71) for example.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> >Being poor is off-brand toys.

>Being poor is a heater in only one room of the house.

No... this is being "poor", i.e. still in the top third or more of humanity as far as living standards.

Being poor is what the people I visited in barrios in Ecuador do - living in huts made of corrugated aluminum and scraps of wood, with a dirt floor, no plumbing or electricity, access to education, healthcare or clean water. Oh, and also having almost no way of changing your situation, no matter how hard you try. Surprisingly, these people were in general happier than well-off people in America, because they had a strong faith, strong families, strong relationships with others in their community, and were just plain tough.

I guess after visiting a third world country and seeing how hard the truly poor work every day, how much they care for what little they have, and how thankful they are for everything, I feel a little less sympathy for the "poor" in America. I wish they could spend a few weeks in a truly poor country, and then realize what an amazing land of opportunity they live in.

<comment><USER10> It's an easy argument to make but it isn't quite that simple. I'm sure the poor of the US would _love_ to take a trip abroad, then come back and realise things aren't so bad & make a start on getting themselves out of their situation.

Telling someone to be grateful that they have a roof over their head since most of the world doesn't won't make them any happier about shivering under a blanket because they can't pay the gas bill for heating. Yes, it could be worse, but it could also be a lot effing _better_ , From my own experience, the whole thing tends to dull the mind to an extent where opportunities are no longer so obvious - or so easy to pursue (£5 for a domain name that may not pay off, or £5 to eat for a week and I'm bloody hungry).

True, absolute poverty is horrific and all efforts should be made to ensure that no one has to endure this through no fault of their own, but that doesn't make relative poverty a non-issue where people need to man-up. Of course, you weren't so extreme as to say that, but it gets side quite a lot and I don't really think it helps much tbh.

<comment><USER9> I'm sorry but I can't help but think that my ancestors (5 brothers that came over from Italy with almost nothing) who were poor from the start, had few if any social programs (other than help from other poor people in the community) to rely on, and were openly discriminated against as "Dirty WOPs" in the late 1800's / early 1900's, made it out of poverty and in the process helped make this country great. Generation 1 - low wage factory worker, Generation 2 - post man then small grocery owner, Generation 3 - first college educated one who started a body shop and then a neon sign business, Generation 4 - my dad, partner at a top CPA firm, Generation 5 - successful tech entrepreneur.

It just feels to me that the poor in first world countries have a victim mentality that keeps them from working with the kind of hard determination that not only gets people out of poverty, but builds up the nation in the process.

Do they need more help to develop that work ethic? Probably. Do they need more handouts? I think that is what's keeping them where they are.

<comment><USER11> Being poor is having the child of a partner at a top CPA firm tell you that you don't need more handouts.

<comment><USER12> I think there's something to not giving handouts. I'd prefer a hand. The strange thing is that we look at the poor as if we are a meritocracy. the general distribution of talent, intelligence and ability is likely to be statistically the same for all classes. And since there are more poor people there should be more success stories. Under a meritocracy there would me more processes in place that reached out to the "underprivileged." But what we see is a war on drugs...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Surprisingly, this is the first time this article was submitted to HN.

It's quite interesting. Some of these things happen in all developed nations, but quite a significant number of them only happen in the US. For example, it did not realize just how fucked up health care is in the US prior to reading this article.

<comment><USER14> I'm pretty sure he is not talking about the US.

 _Being poor is knowing you work as hard as anyone, anywhere._

This is definitely not the US. Most of our poor don't work at all (and are not trying to work), and about 90% don't work full time.

<http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpswp2008.pdf>

 _Being poor is not enough space for everyone who lives with you._

In the US, 67% of poor households have 2 rooms per person (compared to 70.2% of non-poor households).

[http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2004/01/understandi...](http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2004/01/understanding- poverty-in-america)

 _Being poor is stealing meat from the store, frying it up before your mom gets home and then telling her she doesn't have make dinner tonight because you're not hungry anyway._

In the US, being poor is eating the meat, the potato chips, the bacon _and_ the ice cream. But it might be a quart of Krasdale rather than a pint of Ben & Jerry's.

[Edit: I'm speculating that the poor get fat off a broad sampling of typical American fatty foods. I could be getting specific food items wrong. Thanks krschultz for pointing out that my comment was unclear.]

[http://www.ers.usda.gov/AmberWaves/February06/Features/featu...](http://www.ers.usda.gov/AmberWaves/February06/Features/feature4.htm)

I really don't know what part of the world he is talking about.

[edit: changed secondary source to original source on obesity. ]

<comment><USER15> I recently found out how much money WIC pays out for "supplemental" nutrition.

$50 a MONTH. In vouchers. For only certain foods. Ice cream would definitely not be one of them. White bread is not one of them. Soda is not one of them.

Get your facts straight.

<comment><USER14> Could you remind me where I claimed the poor were getting fat off WIC supplemental nutrition, rather than other sources of food?

I've edited my comment to reflect the fact that I'm only speculating about specific food items making the poor fat. But make no mistake, the poor are fat - their _average_ BMI is 29, only one point short of obesity. If you ever live in a poor neighborhood, all you need to do is open your eyes to see that everyone has plenty to eat.

<comment><USER16> Ever seen footage from a famine in Africa? All the people appear to have huge bellies, but that is because they don't get a specific vitamin, not because they are fat.

Maybe something like that is the case here?

<comment><USER14> No. Clearly you aren't American. The situation we have in the US is so ridiculous, it needs to be seen to be believed.

Early on during the recession, NPR, an American radio station did a report on people going hungry as a result of the recesssion. Go look at the picture. [http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9259254...](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92592545)

No starving person in Africa or anywhere else had a BMI of 29.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> _Being poor is having to live with choices you didn't know you made when you were 14 years old._

Plus knowing that your kids are likely to ignore your guidance and follow your example, making the same mistakes you did, no matter how much they know it's a bad idea, and that it will be your influence at fault when they do. I mean, everybody deals with this, but I imagine the worse off your situation, the worse the fear is.

</comment><comment><USER10> _Being poor is knowing exactly how much everything costs._

I still have this now!

Of course I was never poor for any real hardcore definition of the word, Third World-style, but I spent a good few years totally flat broke. Money coming in only occasionally covering the rent, utility payments never paid as I couldn't justify spending that much money when I couldn't afford to eat, living off dry bread and instant mash etc etc. It was an experience for sure, and one I never, ever want to repeat! It's only relatively recently that I've stopped dreading the arriving of mail or jumping when there's a knock at the door, or even keeping the curtains closed so no one can see I'm in.

But yeah, I still buy the cheap brands if they are there out of habit. I'll walk down the road to save 10p on a bottle of milk and so on.

</comment><comment><USER18> _Being poor is relying on people who don't give a damn about you._

Most of them are about being financially poor, but this one is about emotional poverty and can happen to the richest of us.

<comment><USER19> "We think sometimes that poverty is only being hungry, naked and homeless. The poverty of being unwanted, unloved and uncared for is the greatest poverty. We must start in our own homes to remedy this kind of poverty." \- Mother Teresa

<comment><USER20> Mother Teresa was no saint: <http://www.slate.com/id/2090083/>

<comment><USER21> Christopher Hitchens isn't exactly an impartial source when it comes to Mother Teresa.

<comment><USER22> He has an opinion, and he states it. It's not like he has some sort of conflict of interest.

<comment><USER21> My point was that Hitchens has an axe to grind. It makes entertaining reading, but should be taken with a hefty dose of salt.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> What can we do to help people who are this kind of poor? Having given a decent bit to charities in the past, I somtimes feel a bit odd not knowing where it really went, or even if it really helped anyone. Or is this just me?

<comment><USER24> Enforce minimum wages that people can actually live on. Most poor people work significantly harder than your typical white collar office worker. The only thing that separates most of the middle class from the poor is that the middle class had a solid foundation from their family on which to build their future.

<comment><USER25> What if minimum wage laws actually perpetuate the problem by preventing low skill workers from getting hired in the first place?

<comment><USER24> I don't think minimum wage laws are a significant cause of unemployment, but there is plenty of dispute about that. Even if you're right, what good is having a job if it gives you nothing more than the ability to spin your wheels and never progress in life or provide your children with some good opportunity? It seems preferable to have a system where workers are paid well and there is higher unemployment, but also stronger safety nets as opposed to a system with lower unemployment, few safety nets, and swathes of working poor that will never make progress.

Also, there is reason to believe that higher minimum wages encourage your workforce to become better skilled in order to compete on the world market at their higher price, as is the case in Germany.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Don't have kids before you're ready to and can afford to. It seems like a lot of these are related to kids.

<comment><USER27> Funny this is being upvoted, seems to me as a completely blind to reality thing to say, telling poor people not to have kids. Sure, that'll work.

<comment><USER26> I meant it more as a mental note for personal behavior, not as a public policy to implement.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> I've never been anything near poor. I was wondering how really hard it is to get out of poverty in today's society, and if people really wants it (i'm NOT implying that they don't want, i'm really just asking myself).

This is more for homeless-poor than just poor: I would really like to try taking someone homeless, let him shave and dress him nicely, get him to an interview even for a shitty manual job, that'd make me feel really useful in this society, I could probably host him in small building we own in the city (no heating but still it's a shelter and it's not that cold here) UNTIL he finds something else.

"Unfortunately" I can't find any homeless guy in my city (smallish northern italy town), let alone the ones that truly wants to change their situation which i suppose are a % of the homeless people

</comment><comment><USER29> I don't deny the reality of poverty, but this discussion leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

The world is full of pain and nastiness, but this particular list accentuates and celebrates it. Can you imagine a similar piece writing about the woes of Terminal Cancer or Business Failure or Having An Autistic Child?

Everyone's got problems, but people who are actually suffering don't write this way. Nobody defines themselves by their problems; ask a poor person if he's poor, and he'll probably say, "Oh no, I'm not _that_ poor, I have an X." Or maybe, "Oh, I'm poor all right, but I'm not unhappy." Or perhaps even, "Yeah, I'm poor, and it _is_ kind of miserable, but X makes it okay."

What you won't get is, "Oh, I'm so poor and miserable, and you have no idea what poverty is like, let me list the ways I suffer, and let me drive home how very impossible it is for you, from your life of privelege, to ever comprehend how much I suffer every minute."

Well, unless you ask an angsty teenager. ;)

Just about everybody has problems, but nobody defines themselves by their troubles. Everyone thinks of himself as a complex person, with some miseries and some joys, some problems and some opportunities, some strengths and some weaknesses.

Think over your own life; you could almost certainly write a piece like this about some problem you've had. Something has been miserable and unjust for you, in a way people who haven't been there would have a hard time identifying with.

But do you define yourself by it? Neither do The Poor.

That gets at the heart of what I find troubling about this piece.

This is not about a particular person's or a particular community's experience of poverty. This is about The Poor, as a monolithic, mythical entity. And anytime you see someone cast a community of people, who are inherently diverse and complex by virtue of _being people_ , as a simple, mythical stereotype, you're seeing intellectual dishonesty in action. Leftists are socialists, Christians are stupid or evil, Hacker News readers are well off, Iraqis approve the occupation, Americans are arrogant. These things can only be said from a distance; those who have spent time with these communities up close and personal would be hard pressed to say anything was true of all of them. People are diverse.

Let me call these sentiments what they are: bigotry. They divide the population into "us" and "them", and say we are this way, and they are that way.

(That's not to say you can't make useful generalizations. You can. But an honest generalization acknowledges that it is a simplification of a complex reality, and welcomes statistics and counterexamples that heighten the clarity of the image. Bigotry says reality is simple, and don't argue with me, dammit.)

Step back a moment and you know that poverty is complex, and poverty is relative. There are transient homeless and chronic homeless. There are ambitious immigrants without a dollar to their names, there are musicians living the bohemian life, there are barely-profitable-but-proud startup founders living on ramen, there are third generation prostitutes who will never know their fathers, there are children sold into sexual slavery before they're even teens, there are women trapped in polygamous, fundamentalist Mormon communities, there are parents who helplessly watch their children starve to death. So what "is poverty"? By what authority does this author say, "Poverty is..."?

This is not a rational attempt to characterize poverty. This is not a reference to studies which say "67% of households in XX neighborhood in 2008 had to go without a meal at least once a week for lack of funds." This is a series of emotional statements. This says, "Poverty is having to hunt squirrels in the park for food and being so hungry that you'll even eat the nasty bits."

And if someone comes back and says, "Actually, poverty isn't that bad," is their diverse viewpoint into a complex problem welcomed? No, the response is, "Clearly you've never experienced _true_ poverty, you insensitive bastard."

What's going on here?

Emotional, self-serving bigotry. These are not poor people talking about contemporary problems, looking for practical solutions. These are people who know what Poverty Is one-upping those who Don't Know What Poverty Is with their superior Social Awareness. It's a race to see who can be the most heartbroken by this emotional Reality of Poverty, criticizing nothing, adding to the tales of woe, acknowledging that yes, by God, it's true, it's all true.

I have no doubt that the anecdotes are true, that they have roots in real experience. People really do suffer despair, hunger, and degrading treatment. But an emotional characterization without any roots in reason, a construction of a mythology of The Poor as objects of pity? I think that's actually destructive.

Impersonal pity is degrading and infuriating. You see it in some of the experiences recounted in the original post and comments. People would anonymously leave us food or presents, one commenter says, and even though we needed them it provoked us to white-hot rage. We were not _that_ poor.

Kindness and compassion are encouraging and uplifting, whether you are going out to lunch with a poor friend or complimenting a rich friend on his poetry. It doesn't matter how miserable or happy a person is; he can be made happier by love, by personal kindness. But depersonalized pity is always degrading. If you do not think of yourself as The Poor, how insulting is it that your neighbor does, that he thinks your life is so unbearable that you would rather have a few crumbs from his table than keep your sense of dignity?

There is a subtle art to being kind. It's all about treating people with dignity, respecting their personhood.

Kindness is your friend, the rich professor, treating you to an extravagent dinner at the best club in town as a thank you for your hard work helping him grade papers. Pity is an anonymous millionaire giving you $200 for the same dinner just so you can "feel like a human being for a night." Kindness is your neighbor, the fit, poor, stay at home mom, offering to help her elderly and disabled neighbor with some chores after chatting over lunch. Pity is $50 in an envelope taped to your door with a note that says, "I can see your living room from the street and feel sorry for you; this is to hire a housekeeper for a day."

The original post provokes pity, and I find that degrading. Here, for comparison, is what compassion sounds like:

[http://jmchoul.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!F04579021E6249A3!143...](http://jmchoul.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!F04579021E6249A3!1431.entry#comment) <http://www.delanceystreetfoundation.org/grads.php>

Poverty is real, complex, and generally miserable, but even the poor are human. Treat them with human dignity and kindness, not with self-righteous pity.

<comment><USER30>
      this particular list accentuates and celebrates it.

It doesn't do that in any objective way: that's your interpretation, which you use as a stool to easily climb on a hobbyhorse.

      Can you imagine a similar piece writing about the woes of
      Terminal Cancer or Business Failure or Having An Autistic
      Child?

Yes I can. Actually, I think I've read those and they were equally inspiring as a reminder of my wealth and health and how small my problems really are. What of it?

      people who are actually suffering don't write this way.

But people who _have_ suffered may. Survivors of any traumatic experience can reflect on their experiences in a wide variety of ways. Your typification of the author in this way is not supported by any evidence.

As to the rest of this piece: I find several of the viewpoints commendable, but you're conflating them by interpreting this list as 'self-serving bigotry'. The problems of generalisations, pity and lack of understanding really don't need to have anything to do with this list. Only the author can tell.

<comment><USER29> _Survivors of any traumatic experience can reflect on their experiences in a wide variety of ways._

John Scalzi is not reflecting on his own experiences. He is just as privileged as you or I; he is merely claiming to be so much more _aware_ of poverty that he has the authority to emotionally _define_ it.

[http://whatever.scalzi.com/about/a-brief-biography-of- john-s...](http://whatever.scalzi.com/about/a-brief-biography-of-john-scalzi/)

<comment><USER31> I believe that Scalzi grew up in a household which was "poor", at least for some years, and that he was simply hard-working and lucky enough to be able to get out of it. See his comment on the OP here: [http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being- poor/#comment-64...](http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being- poor/#comment-64682)

Which is not to say that he isn't doing well for himself now, and it's hardly surprising that this wouldn't feature prominently in his "brief bio".

<comment><USER29> I dunno. In that comment, he describes being the first in his family to graduate from high school or college, and his mom sending him away to live with an aunt so she could work.

In the original post, he described not being able to scrape together $300 for a test to go to college at all, and "not taking the job because you can't find someone you trust to watch your kids". Sounds like exaggeration to me.

I still don't think he's writing from experience. He went to a high school he liked, a nice out of state college, and got a nice job. Just like the rest of us. He hasn't had to "try to think of a way to make the kids understand that the box [of Raisin Bran] has to last." Maybe his parents or friends did. Or maybe it's exaggerated and mythologized.

Who knows?

I'd rather access the reality of poverty through reason than emotion. Practical compassion for the people I know personally (and he is not the only one with friends and family who are poor!); statistics for communities and definitions and trends.

<comment><USER31> _In the original post, he described not being able to scrape together $300 for a test to go to college at all, and "not taking the job because you can't find someone you trust to watch your kids". Sounds like exaggeration to me._

Minor correction: the $300 for college story is from a person called Soni in the comments, not in the original blog post. The bit about not taking a job, I can easily see being observation of his parents; that's how I interpreted a lot of the items in the list, as things he saw his family go through as he grew up. He himself has obviously done pretty good, but that's not to say he couldn't have shared at least parts of these experiences.

In general I agree with the superiority of reason over emotion; but there are a lot of people out there who can't be reached easily through reason, for whom statistics just sit there, meaningless. I think it's useful to have these emotional appeals out there, as it hits at a different level.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Being poor is wanting as much stuff as the people around you.

The article came across to me as a whiny. Being poor is having a car (but not a nice one), having toys (but not nice ones), having shoes, shelter, food (but...).

<comment><USER32> If I have one complaint about the article, it's that his idea of poor, and my idea of poor seem very far apart. My idea of poor makes his idea of poor look like a lavish paradise.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> Interesting looking at the Australian minimum wage of $15/hr ($14.21 USD atm). Whereas from what I have seen of the US one it seems really hard to get by at all with the Australian one you could rent out a nice 2 or 3 bedroom house in an outer suburb but nice area which would only take up about half your weekly wage.

<comment><USER32> I believe the U.S. federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr before taxes are taken out (and it can be less than that if you work in a job that expects to collect tips, like waiting tables), or about $15k/yr for a full-timer. In my area, which is a suburban area, 600 sq ft. single bedroom apartments go for around $900-$1200/mo. Significantly more if you live closer into the city. For reasons of transportation, many poor people live in the city.

Keep in mind most apartment complexes won't let you have the apartment if your credit is bad, or the rent is more than 1/3 monthly income.

You can rent bedrooms or basements though for $500-700/mo.

Supposing you got the $900/mo apartment. That leaves you with around $100/wk to feed yourself and cover _all_ other expenses. Once taxes are taken out, that can leave you with significantly less. No amount of budgeting can turn that into night school + transport + clothes + utilities + anything else you need like furniture or medical insurance or dental care.

Most people trying to get a leg up work two full-time jobs which, while getting you more money (and enough money to qualify for the cheapest apartment possible), it doesn't leave any _time_ for life advancement plans like night school. So it's a vicious cycle and you can only break out of it by being lucky in many areas simultaneously. You have to find the job that pays more than minimum wage, and compete with all the other poor people trying to get that same slot...so you can work only one job...so you can have time to take one class a semester at community college (so long as they happen to offer the classes you need at time that don't interfere with your work schedule and your work schedule doesn't change during the semester to interfere with your classes)...so in 5 or 6 years you can get an Associates degree, which isn't really worth much, but can be transfered to many state schools in lieu of the first two years of a 4-year degree (at much less cost).

Of course many people stop at this point because they can't afford the last two years of school, and the A.A. or A.S. didn't really help them get a better job. So they feel like they've just wasted 5 or 6 years of their life scraping for every penny they had to put themselves through school.

Escaping this kind of life requires so much luck and so many people in so many places to turn a blind eye, or offer a meaningful helping hand, that a person simply can't do it on their own. It's numerically impossible in the U.S. Most immigrants who come here with nothing never escape it themselves, but end up in a better life through their children.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> My grandmother grew up during the great depression. She still hoards food in nooks and crannies throughout the house and when let loose on a piece of chicken will eat every last scrap of digestible item on the bone. She habitually makes soup with boiled beef bones to get every last ounce of nutrition.

My father grew up just post-depression in a very rural area. While he never missed a meal, many meals consisted of only a few slices of bread as a filler and maybe some soup and not much else. I've never seen him eat a meal without eating some bread with it, he said it makes him feel uncomfortable.

My family was pretty low-end middle class growing up, and a couple of unlucky business decisions set us homeless for the better part of a year, with my entire family of 4 living in a single room subsidized motel room (rent 5 days, get the weekends for free) followed by two years of living out of two rented rooms in somebody's basement. We also never missed a meal, but I can tell you that I, to this day, cannot eat a cup of noodles meal without thinking about drug addicts banging at our motel room door thinking we were the room down the hall. We did better after that, and then later in life, as an adult, I found myself in not-quite-so-bad-but-not-great circumstances. A time when I used to decide if I could buy lunch at McDonald's or Taco Bell by counting how many hours extra I would have to work to pay for McDonald's.

Some of the things Scalzi mentions, would have been luxuries at certain moments in my life...like _having_ toys. I've spent time as a child with no toys at all.

People who have never been poor, have absolutely no understanding, cannot fathom, why people are poor and why they stay poor. Being poor is not about having a lack of money, it's about having a lack of wealth. It's a way of life. A person who has never been poor cannot understand why you can't "just go to night school" to improve your lot in life because they don't understand that between two 40 hour a week jobs, and 2 or 3 hours a day of walking between jobs, home, the day-old-baked goods store and the salvation army, you have maybe 4 or 5 hours that night for sleep...every night. And what intense sleep deprivation coupled with intense, dangerous and stressful jobs can do to a person after decades. We worry about soldiers deployed for 18 months, imagine that type of life for 18 years solid.

"Being poor is picking the 10 cent ramen instead of the 12 cent ramen because that's two extra packages for every dollar." This is the type of calculation one has to make all day every day when one is poor. It's very easy to be critical when you see a poor person buy a pack of cigs or a 6-pack of beer instead of a head of lettuce or that month's electricity bill. But I dare anybody to live that kind of life and not be so stressed and so damaged from the constancy of it, that you seek any kind of escape possible and that desire for escape infects all of your decisions. When your eating decisions are down to decisions about pennies, there's really not much worse things can get. Having the lights turned off because you didn't pay the bill does not really make things all that much worse in your day to day.

"Being poor is four years of night classes for an Associates of Art degree." The prime question asked by those who have never been poor, and are unable to empathize with those who are, is this..."why don't you just go to school and make your lot in life better?" There are lots of reasons to be poor in the first place. If you are _lucky_ like I was, it's not because you have a mental disease or a severe learning disability, or are crippled or in some other way handicapped or not raised in a generational environment of poverty where you honestly don't understand that going to class can translate into a house in the suburbs because you have absolutely no life experience for you to understand that. Just in the same way some people don't understand what it's like to be poor, poor people can't understand what life is like to be not poor.

I _was_ able to spend the 6 years in night school to get my 2 year A.S., which brought me up a step in life so that I could spend another 3 years getting the last two years of my B.S. which brought up a step in life so I could spend another 4 years getting my M.S. But at each step, if I hadn't had a person at that time to help me up that step, and give me an opportunity, I'd still be comparing Ramen prices, or figuring out how many meals a 10-pack of tacos from Taco Bell would last. And if I hadn't had the emotional support from good friends, or people who believed in me...well, 10 years is a terribly long time to keep motivated to change your lot in life while also doing all the other things people do in their day-to-day, like keeping down full-time jobs, career advancement, marriage, etc. Basically, being poor _is_ a full-time job on top of your other full-time jobs. But I don't think that every poor peer I knew while I was poor could do the same. I got lucky and had great opportunity, and I worked hard to seize those opportunities when they came along. If nobody ever opens the door for you, you can't ever go through it and _nobody_ is strong enough to carve their path in life to success all on their own.

My friend, who was born with the after-effects of an alcoholic and drug addicted mother, was unable to keep passing grades in his 6 year quest for a 2 year associate's degree and has never held a salaried position. That means he's never had health insurance, which means he's lost 3 jobs because he spent 14 hours in an ER getting basic medical care. It means he's had cars repossessed because somebody hit him and he had no auto-insurance and couldn't pay the repair bill out of pocket. It means that sometimes, to escape the shitty life he has to live every day, he sometimes buys a used book to escape into instead of a head of lettuce. It also means that sometimes, at the beginning of the month, he's just paid his rent, and he has $12 left in his bank account to stretch out till his next paycheck.

And then, after you've been poor for a long time, it shows. There's an aura about a poor person that no amount of hair product and tailored suits can shake. It sits on them in how they walk, how they talk, how they sit, how their skin hangs, what their build looks like, how the hold themselves, where they look in a room, how they behave at a meal. Because of this, no matter how hard they've worked to "make it", they'll always have that stigma attached to them, even by people that never knew they were poor. They'll present like a poor person so they'll interview worse, they'll get promoted less frequently, they'll get scored lower on yearly reviews.

Going from poor to not poor, is not about climbing a ladder. It's about being on the front of a seige engine attacking a fortress while arrows and bullets and hot oil rains down on you.

<comment><USER34> > People who have never been poor, have absolutely no understanding, cannot > fathom, why people are poor and why they stay poor.

It's amazing to me how many of the comments on this thread remind me of how I would describe depression.

I'm not poor and never have been. But I have felt hopeless despair that I don't think people can understand unless they've experienced it. It is an emotional response that is radically disproportionate to the actual circumstances that triggered it.

I won't argue that depression has any of the long-term effects you describe though.

<comment><USER32> Depression is often a result of feeling trapped by life's circumstances. Being poor can often feel like one is trapped. It's not a stretch to say that many poor people are also highly depressed people.

I agree though, it's like describing what color is to a person blind from birth. In some cases (as are represented on this thread) it's like describing it to a blind person who thinks they already know how all the senses work, and a person can just get over the "seeing thing" if they just sniff hard enough.

<comment><USER35> Reminds me of <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness> ...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Jeannette Walls' "The Glass Castle" is a memoir of her poor, nomadic childhood that is at times shocking and heartbreaking.

</comment><comment><USER36> It's often good to remind yourself of just how fortunate you really are... Those lines are so easily blurred.

<comment><USER37> Or not... actually I - AM - fortunate, and I've never been poor, but I can identify with many of the points in the article (many are too US-centric as someone pointed out), and U$ 8 an hour sounds like a good deal even today for me.

Of course, I live in Uruguay, South America, and mostly by choice (I was born here, but I've had my opportunities to emigrate).

It's funny, but many of the "being poor" points, would not be considered "being poor" here in Uruguay (I should write a similar article about "being poor" from the Uruguay point of view - let's say it would be much worse in several parts, a bit better on the healthcare bit.

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> Being poor is buying only Oatmeal and Mac & Cheese because they don't require electric refrigeration, can be purchased in bulk inexpensively, and you just add water to eat.

That brings back bad memories. Granted, compared to many parts of the world it's a walk in the park.

</comment><comment><USER39> I'm sorry, I know this is a serious subject but this thread reminds me of this Monty Python sketch: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo>

</comment><comment><USER40> Instead check _how rich are you_ <http://www.globalrichlist.com/>

</comment><comment><USER41> I had grass growing in my first car.

</comment><comment><USER8> I do understand this article; however I would point out that among the "poor" (in America hardly anyone is poor like in the 3rd world) I have met, TV is present and books are not.

<comment><USER42> TVs are much cheaper per hour, so what's the surprise?

I mean, yes, I know what you're getting at, but a $50 used 25-inch CRT that you use for several thousand hours is going to beat out a book on the price front any day. Even just the effort of going to the library and back adds up to more human capital per book/hour than watching TV. I'm not endorsing it, just observing it.

<comment><USER43> Just a quick comment; most books one cannot even give away. A lot of used books are sold on Amazon for $.01. The local used bookstore won't even take boxes of nearly mint books for free, because they can't give them away either.

I read thousands of books as a kid and paid for nearly none of them.

<comment><USER44> <http://www.bookthing.org/> for instance will generally take those books.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> being poor is not having a blog.

</comment><comment><USER46> Great list.

I grew up in a very poor family (although Canadian poor is global rich by some measure, that didn't comfort me). It's an experience that I seldom comment on because I've discovered that many people simply cannot understand. They really can't.

Being _really_ poor is more about a lack of hope, opportunity and options than the more obvious lack of resources. It's impossible to _play_ poor -- you can't cut your budget as an exercise in restraint and then assume that you've experienced what it's like to be desperately poor.

The few luxuries we did have were grossly irresponsible luxuries.

I remember a period shortly after our dog died of malnutrition -- when the infrequent bath was facilitated by my older brother using a blow torch on the hot water heater, and boiled hot dogs comprised about 80% of our diet -- and my father blew the few dollars he got on a laser disc player.

Here we were living miserably, living in a toxic environment as our only indoor heat was a kerosene heater (that we didn't die of carbon monoxide poisoning was courtesy of the gale force winds that would blow through the uninsulated house), and yet we had a very rare laser disc player for our shitty little second-hand television.

I don't begrudge my father it, though. Life had become such a trial that it was simply an escape and gave him something to feel pride about providing. It was irrational, but it gave me perspective that judging the poor is a fool's game unless you can empathize with the situation.

Being poor was thinking "what's the point" about almost everything, because fate had a way of conspiring against you. Or at least that's what it felt like when every initiative or enterprise relied upon layers of fragile proppings.

Where a flat tire was economic destruction.

Now I sit in the top 1% of earners. Though that is purely a result of natural interests and natural abilities (thank you genetics), and was no herculean motivation to escape the situation of my parents.

</comment><comment><USER47> Every item on the list applied to my upbringing I had to stop half way through to avoid depressing myself too much this morning.

There's two reactions to this. One will be people saying these problems aren't like what's compared to "real" poverty in third world countries. Well, perspective doesn't feed you, pay bills, or support a roof over your head. Because there are people living in situations that is really fucked up doesn't invalidate you. Suffering is not a zero-sum game.

Second, the common thread of being poor is the inherent limitations. You do and behave certain ways because you have no other choice, stuck on a treadmill. Some will never get an opportunity to learn the skills to make better choices. It will take an overwhelming amount of energy and effort to change the momentum of where a life goes. Being full on dollar meals and drunk on two dollar wines doesn't help with that situation.

In all these years I have not been a god-believing man but I have become a faithful man. I have kept hope that things will always be better down the road. That it's up to me given the hand I've been dealt to play it as best as I could. And at the end to let go the bitterness or the awkwardness. There's no choice to be made when you're blinded by your own madness of being hopeless.

</comment><comment><USER48> Being poor means having to constantly worry about money to the point where you're not sure where your next meal is coming from.

</comment><comment><USER49> I attacked this Scalzi post almost five years ago.

<http://tjic.com/?p=1386>

Leftist propaganda on how we comfortable middle class folks have no idea of what money management is, and no idea how hard the poor are oppressed by The Man, with some observations sprinkled in between:

> <http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/003704.ht..>. > > Being poor is knowing > exactly how much everything costs.

Being middle class is knowing how much things cost; being low-class is not knowing and just spending money.

> Being poor is getting angry at your kids for asking for > all the crap they > see on TV.

Being low-class is letting your kids watch TV all day long, when there are free libraries, parks, playgrounds, Boy scout, Girl scout, and church organizations.

> Being poor is knowing your kid goes to friends' houses but > never has > friends over to yours.

Being a low-class is keeping your home, no matter how large or small, in a manner that is embarrassing to you.

> Being poor is coming back to the car with your children in > the back seat, > clutching that box of Raisin Bran you just > bought and trying to think of a > way to make the kids > understand that the box has to last.

Being low-class is buying expensive name-brand cereal, instead of bulk oatmeal, at a fraction of the price.

> Being poor is wondering if your well-off sibling is lying > when he says he > doesn't mind when you ask for help.

Being low-class is getting yourself in a situation where you need to ask folks for loans you won't pay back.

> Being poor is off-brand toys.

Being low-class is caring about the brand of toys.

> Being poor is knowing you can't leave $5 on the coffee > table when your > friends are around.

Being low-class is considering people who would steal money from you your "friends".

> Being poor is stealing meat from the store, frying it up > before your mom > gets home and then telling her she doesn't > have make dinner tonight > because you're not hungry anyway.

Being low-class is stealing.

Being low-class is choosing meat over pasta when you can't afford it.

> Being poor is Goodwill underwear.

Being low-class is not shopping sales at Sears.

> Being poor is not enough space for everyone who lives with you.

Being low-class is having more kids than space.

> Being poor is relying on people who don't give a damn about you.

Being low-class is worrying what other people think about you, instead of just living your life.

> Being poor is finding the letter your mom wrote to your > dad, begging him > for the child support.

Being low-class is leaving your spouse, or settling for the kind of person who might run off.

> Being poor is making lunch for your kid when a cockroach > skitters over the > bread, and you looking over to see if > your kid saw.

Being low-class is leaving garbage around enough that cock-roaches breed.

> Being poor is people angry at you just for walking around in the mall.

Being low-class is shopping at the mall, when your money would go much further at other places.

> Being poor is not taking the job because you can't find > someone you trust > to watch your kids.

Being low-class is having kids with out the spouse or means to support them.

> Being poor is a sidewalk with lots of brown glass on it.

Being low-class is discarding garbage on sidewalks.

> Being poor is people thinking they know something about > you by the way you > talk.

Being low-class is walking in a way that demonstrates attitude.

> Being poor is your kid's teacher assuming you don't have > any books in your > home.

Being low-class is not having books in your home.

Being low-class is acting such that people would assume that you don't have book in your home.

> Being poor is six dollars short on the utility bill and no way to close the > gap.

Being low-class is not budgeting.

> Being poor is having to live with choices you didn't know > you made when > you were 14 years old.

Being low-class is letting your children make bad choices then they are 14.

> Being poor is deciding that it's all right to base a > relationship on > shelter.

Being low-class is whoring.

> Being poor is knowing you really shouldn't spend that buck > on a Lotto > ticket.

Being low-class is wasting money on lotto tickets, then stealing meat for dinner (see way above).

> Being poor is feeling helpless when your child makes the > same mistakes you > did, and won't listen to you beg them > against doing so.

Being low-class is not having an intact family to set a good example for your children.

> Being poor is making sure you don't spill on the couch, > just in case you > have to give it back before the lease is > up.

Being low-class is eating and drinking in the living room.

> Being poor is a $200 paycheck advance from a company that > takes $250 when > the paycheck comes in.

Being low-class is living beyond your means.

> Being poor is people wondering why you didn't leave.

Being low-class is refusing to listen to advice.

I feel bad for the poor, but in a rich, capitalist, free-market place like America, ALMOST ANYONE can become middle-class or better, if they just act like responsible adults.

Yeah, by the time you've pumped out four kids by three different fathers, and picked up $10k in credit card debt, you're reasonably screwed…but the fact that bad choices have consequences doesn't negate the fact that every day people come to this country with nothing but a shirt on their backs, a set of morals, and a work ethic, and end up retiring to a nice air-conditioned three- bedroom in Florida a few decades later.

Enjoy this article about how a 37 year old manual laborer who came to the country at 21 just bought a condo in NYC for $1.4 million.

If you want to work two shifts, and save your money, and eat oatmeal, you can become a millionaire.

If you want to label yourself as a victim, rent furniture you can't afford, buy name brand crap food you can't afford, and watch TV all day, you can live like the white (or other colored) trash that you are.

What this society needs is more accountability, not less.

Poor people shouldn't be spoon-fed aggrieved resentment sauce by middle class leftists; they should be reminded that they wake up every day and face a set of choices, just like the rest of us.

<comment><USER50> "I feel bad for the poor, but in a rich, capitalist, free-market place like America, ALMOST ANYONE can become middle-class or better, if they just act like responsible adults."

"If you want to work two shifts, and save your money, and eat oatmeal, you can become a millionaire."

So let me get this straight -- being a responsible adult is working 16 hours per day, living off of oatmeal, having no disposable income?

I'll be perfectly honest with you. Morals aside, I'd be much more inclined to just rob you. In the off chance I go to jail, my life wouldn't be much worse.

I know in your idealized world people just do as their told. I think I'd make more calculated decisions... and I don't think they're likely to be decisions that you're a fan of.

<comment><USER49> > I'll be perfectly honest with you. Morals aside, I'd be much more inclined > to just rob you. In the off chance I go to jail

As I sit here typing I've got my Sigpro 2340 and 10 rounds of Federal hollowpoint in a concealed holster under my t-shirt.

Poor decision making is another hallmark of people who opt into the low class.

<comment><USER51> I support the second amendment and all; I think its a more important part of the American psyche than most people realize.

Sorry to riff on your meme, but _dude_ , typing at your computer with your gun in your belt, that's seriously low-class. Almost as much as telling everyone about it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER52> Why have kids when poor? Haven't the humanity progressed from "increase the reproduction rate when circumstances are dire" mechanism?

<comment><USER13> (a) Sex is cheap, good entertainment. (b) If you are already poor, children aren't going to make it any worse. (c) For some reason, most people really want to have children. (d) Humans aren't exactly rational creatures.

Free birth control, as well as better sex education (which is, from what I've read, hilariously bad in the US) would probably help quite a bit.

<comment><USER52> >If you are already poor, children aren't going to make it any worse.

And yet considerable of his pain points are about not being able to cater for his child(ren)

<comment><USER53> People don't plan to remain poor forever. Some of them become poor _after_ they have kids, while others hope things might improve in the future, since the life of the poor always fluctuates from bad to relatively better off.

Besides, who are you to tell someone they couldn't have children of their own just because they're poor? It's their right to conceive and adopt children, just as it's yours.

In fact, they could easily afford to feed their children and lead a happy life, wasn't it for the rest of the well off society that's making their lot worse than it is, by comparison. Being poor in a rich town is worse, both materially and psychologically, than being one of a larger poor community.

<comment><USER52> Well, if a person complains about being poor and still have kids, I find the right to point out to that person the obvious planning mistakes in his life, It's not like I am shouting at random poor people now, is it?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER54> I don't know when this was written, but some of the "facts" listed are simply not true.

"Being poor is hoping the register lady will spot you the dime." The minimum wage in California is $8/hr, so $0.1 is equal to only 0.75 minutes of labor.

"Being poor is crying when you drop the mac and cheese on the floor." A burger at McDonalds costs around $1, or only 7.5 minutes of labor.

<comment><USER32> There's only so many hours in a week one can work to earn this money. Once it's spent, it's gone. You can't just add a few more hours onto the day to make up the difference.</comment></comment>


Neckbeard - <AUTHOR> http://37signals.com/svn/posts/3395-neckbeard

<comment><USER2> And here I was, hoping this would be a post with empirical evidence that beard length == intelligence.

</comment><comment><USER3> eps is a format most people without vector can't deal with.

Any change we can get this at 128 * 128 and 32 * 32

<comment><USER4> The Gimp (free, open source) should be able to open it. You can convert it to pretty much anything from there.</comment></comment>