GoToMyPC has been hacked, all customer passwords reset - <AUTHOR> http://status.gotomypc.com/incidents/s2k8h1xhzn4k <comment><USER3> This is not a good suggestion on their part, and has long been proven ineffective:

       Substitute numbers for letters that
       look similar (for example, substitute
       "0" for "o" or "3" for "E".

<comment><USER4> > This is not a good suggestion on their part, and has long been proven > ineffective:

Agreed; that is bad advice.

I tell people: If you think of a trick then the attackers, who have expertise and think about these issues all the time, have thought of it long ago and have written it into their password-cracking software. That applies to visual substitutions (such as GoToMyPC recommended), phonetic substitutions (e.g., AmeriKa), patterns on your keyboard, etc.

In a more technical sense, that applies to tricks that can be defeated with an algorithm and affordable computing resources.

<comment><USER5> But if the trick you are using results in sufficient entropy, it shouldn't matter that the enemy has thought of it too. I'm still a fan of linking common words together as this results in easily-memorized passwords with very high entropy. "Catrunningfishhostagelaptop" is a good password these days. it is easily remember but also difficult to brute force even if you know the trick by which it was constructed.

(And yes, by putting it out there I realize it is now a bad password.)

<comment><USER6> Couldn't I write a bruteforcer that instead of 5 * letters, tried 5 * dictionary words and get your password easily?

<comment><USER7> The way to compute the amount of possible brute-force combinations:

For a normal 5 letter (alpha-numeric only) password:

36 factorial, which is (36 * 36 * 36 * 36 * 36) = 60 million possible combinations.

However, for a 5-word password, the calculation is as follows:

Assuming the number of possible words in the English language is 1.025109 million, then:

1,025,109 factorial, which is (1,025,109 * 1,025,109 * 1,025,109 * 1,025,109 * 1,025,109) = _A really big number_.

So, granted, the amount of possible words is much smaller than that. But the attacker can't know that for sure. To put the number above in scale, just 69 factorial is equivalent to 1.711224524 * 10^98.

<comment><USER4> I agree with your general point, but I have just a couple of mathematical points:

> For a normal 5 letter (alpha-numeric only) password: > 36

With the "normal" recommendation of numbers, uppercase and lowercase letters, and punctuation, it's up around 100.

> factorial

The calculation is X^Y, where X is the number of possibilities per element, and Y is the number of elements (letters or words in these examples). So using only only lowercase letters (26) in an 8 character password would be 26^8. It's not factorial because you can reuse characters (e.g., your password could be X92m-sXp/)

> the amount of possible words is much smaller than that. But the attacker > can't know that for sure

They will search the more likely words first. I read someplace that 10,000 words covers most people's vocabulary. That's still 100 times better than numbers + uppercase + lowercase + punctuation.

<comment><USER7> >" _The calculation is X^Y, where X is the number of possibilities per element, and Y is the number of elements (letters or words in these examples). So using only only lowercase letters (26) in an 8 character password would be 26^8. It 's not factorial because you can reuse characters (e.g., your password could be X92m-sXp/)_"

You're absolutely right, not sure why I got ahead of myself with using factorial so incorrectly.

<comment><USER8> You were probably thinking about the fact that picking, in order, 5 elements taken from a set of 1000 elements yields (1000 factorial) / (995 factorial) possible combinations.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> It's sad that this is a service instead of just free software. Did that never evolve to be user friendly enough? Do ISPs not let you run your own web server anymore? Maybe it's because of changing IP addresses and domain names? The cost of this service seems to be slightly more than the cost of maintaining your own domain name.

<comment><USER10> I run my own web server with a residential ISP and they don't seem to mind. But in places like an office or with really crappy ISPs you just don't have a public IP. I've searched for services that just let you forward out a few ports over SSH but these don't seem to exist. Right now, to get to my laptop I have a raspberry pi "jump box" that sits on the book shelf and my laptop connects to it over SSH and forwards out port 80 and 22 so I can get to it from pretty much any network.

<comment><USER11> Is it still the case that for most ISPs the uplink is much slower than the downlink speed? That was one reason running anything other than limited-use servers from your home wasn't feasible.

<comment><USER12> With the advent of streaming TV and movies, for many of us now the _reverse_ is true.

<comment><USER13> How do streaming movies make your uplink faster than your downlink?

<comment><USER12> Other subscribers in the cell consume more downlink than uplink, in a steep ratio.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Lame excuses ("a very sophisticated password attack") with no details so that we can estimate the risk.

<comment><USER15> What risk is there to estimate? Assume that the attackers have the clear text of your password, and know that it's your password.

<comment><USER16> What you're saying is more drastic then what they wrote here. If you used the same password somewhere else, then you're going to have change all those passwords.

<comment><USER15> Of course you do. That's why you don't reuse passwords.

Why would you trust your other accounts to their internal investigation + PR interpretation anyway?

<comment><USER16> Because I'm human and can't maintain 30+ passwords?

<comment><USER17> > Because I'm human and can't maintain 30+ passwords?

The original question was about GoToMyPC providing more details so someone could "estimate the risk".

If you're already reusing passwords, that becomes rather easy: Your risk is dominated by the fact that you reuse passwords across services. No amount of details from GoToMyPC is going to affect that very much--whether you even used their service or not.

Seriously, just start using a password manager. It's not that much effort, even just for the peace of mind that you're finally setting passwords with the desired strength that you already know is necessary, but couldn't afford to maintain / memorize.

The hardest part for me was trying to decide which one to use :) I settled on KeePassX, because it's free and open source, has an Android app, doesn't store your stuff on their servers (just one encrypted database-file you can safely keep synced between devices via whatever method/cloud storage you prefer). I've been keeping an eye on the pro's and cons between various password manager options, and as far as I've seen the biggest downside to KeepassX was that one security researcher didn't like the user interface (it's fine, IMO) whereas the others either keep your stuff on a server somewhere, are not open source, or both.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> As these hacks are becoming more common place, I'd love to hear fellow HN reader's take on their password strategy/management. Many thanks in advance!

<comment><USER19> A unique password, 2FA, AND a unique email address.

I use [https://lastpass.com/](https://lastpass.com/) for generating passwords. $12/year and works on Linux & Android. Would prefer open source, but nothing else comes close. I tend to generate 32 char passwords with a mix of upper, lower, number, and special. Only a few websites insist on shorter passwords - or have character restrictions.

For 2FA I use either SMS or Authy [https://www.authy.com/](https://www.authy.com/) Take a look at [https://www.turnon2fa.com/](https://www.turnon2fa.com/) to see which sites support 2FA.

It _does_ make logging in to some frequently used sites a bit of a pain (looking at you PayPal!) but I think it is worth it.

On to unique email addresses. I do this for two reasons.

1\. Allows me to easily see where an email has come from & filter if necessary. I can tell if your company has leaked / lost / sold my address.

2\. If I have reused a password, a database leak doesn't compromise other sites. An attacker doesn't know the login details for LinkedIn based on my GoToMyPC email.

I tend to use something like lnkdn@ mydomain / gtmypc@ ... / twttr@ ... - <USER2> if your mail provider lets you use a catch-all, it can be anything you like.

One word of warning - it _really_ confuses people when you give the email over the phone! I usually say "I'm creating a unique email address for you so that the message doesn't go into spam. Ok? _sound of me hitting random keys_ It's yourcompany@ ...."

<comment><USER20> > I use [https://lastpass.com/](https://lastpass.com/) for generating > passwords. ... Would prefer open source, but nothing else comes close.

On a linux/unix system, one could use /dev/urandom:

      tr -dc '[[:alnum:][:punct:]]' < /dev/urandom | head -16c

would generate a 16 character long _password_.

One could even put the following function in $HOME/.bash_profile or such

      genpw() {
        tr -dc '[[:alnum:][:punct:]]' < /dev/urandom | head -${1-16}c
      }

Now invoking it by saying _genpw_ would generate a pseudorandom string of 16 characters length. You could specify the length by passing a parameter to it, e.g. _genpw 8_.

<comment><USER21> Are you implying this comes close to the convenience of LastPass?

<comment><USER20> Sorry, haven't used LastPass myself. But as far as generating a random password goes, this would be pretty effective.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> They don't really say it has been hacked, just that being a target of an advanced password attack.

It might mean attackers are using password lists from previous leaks (linkedin), so they decided to force a pass reset to everyone. Or maybe they got hacked. Who knows, not very clear.

<comment><USER23> As has been proven many times before, "very sophisticated", "advanced", "highly complex" etc. actually generally means "our staff was humiliatingly negligent" in some regard. i.e. they were spearphished and the attacker pulled a password database from their internal network. It seems very odd that they resorted to resetting all passwords instead of just affected or potentially affected accounts as Github did recently.

<comment><USER24> Well since its a botnet that is trying to login with lots of different passwords and lots of different accounts its fairly obvious what the attack vector is. That's also why its safer to force a password reset than to just continue to reset passwords after they get compromised.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> It doesn't sound like they have been hacked directly. This looks like the same things as TeamViewer where hackers are using password lists from other breaches to attempt to compromise the high value remote desktop targets.

</comment><comment><USER26> There are two things that are rapidly becoming negligent not to offer:

\- 2FA (mobile, yubikey, duo)

\- basic monitoring and notification when login patterns change

These are both relatively simple and effective. You needn't _force_ 2FA, but please offer it.

A password I shared across a couple of test accounts for various services was compromised when one of the sites storing cleartext passwords was popped.

A Microsoft account was the winner of the day - they notified me that a login from $home followed by a login from Brazil looked suspicious, and they were correct. This is basic and often effective.

</comment><comment><USER27> Why do people keep recommending these incredibly insecure passwords... replacing vowels with numbers will do little...

Ugh

<comment><USER20> Such recommendations leave little to imagination when they say:

      ... service has been targeted by a very sophisticated password attack

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> The best part about running a cybersecurity company: lots of easy, free marketing. It's a really good time to be in the industry. It is unfortunate that people are trusting companies to protect their information and it ends up being really hard to do properly. Every able-bodied security engineer really should get in the game since there's money to be made as well as good to be done.

<comment><USER29> In a way I'm glad they got hacked. They'll learn the lesson by losing customers and $$$$. I'm guessing there was someone who said they should invest in security but management decided to save money.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> What worries me is that this product is owned by Citrix.

Our company uses other products by Citrix extensively like GoToMeeting, Citrix applications etc. And if those products get compromised, then it will be a huge enterprise level financial loss.

<comment><USER31> I used to work on the security team at Citrix. It's a very competent team that does proactive security auditing, threat modeling, pen testing and developer training as well as response.

However, the "Go To" products (until a year or two ago) were part of Citrix Online, which operated independently of the rest of Citrix.

So I don't see this as a reflection of the security of Citrix's core products.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> Aren't these remote access solutions primarily on demand and therefore coupled to a one-time password generated each time it's started? Isn't Chrome's remote access otp only? Maybe it's time to ask friends/family to use that instead.

I mean, if I want permanent remote access, then I'd set up a reasonably secure VPN solution that also required client side certificates, without the use of a trusted intermediary/proxy.

Interactive access to remote servers seems also to get less important with push/pull of configuration/deployment recipes and immutable deployment.

<comment><USER33> Yes and no.

Teamviewer, for example, has a few use-scenarios, one of which is the unattended access, which is what appeared to be compromised. Essentially there was an always-on agent process running on the target machine that you could access with a Teamviewer account you set up; said account could manage any number of PCs that had always-on unattended access.

Teamviewer also has a "Quick Support" option, in which the application spawns a computer ID number and a theoretically one-time use password. The complexity of the password could be set within the application. Their QuickSupport tool, meant for a one-off support session, generates a unique session ID (in the past they had a static computer ID and a semi-unique password generated per client) which can be given to a support rep with the full version of Teamviewer to access.

I have not yet followed up on the Teamviewer issue so I cannot say exactly what was compromised there, though last I remember Teamviewer was insistent their service had not been compromised, but that the unauthorized access was the result of reused passwords.

GoToMyPC appears to be the former, an agent you install with the intent of unattended access on a whim. While server access is certainly one use scenario, access to non-server PCs for whatever reason is also a major part of these. Barring a breach of the software accounts or incompetently designed security for the remote access tools, it's probably okay for most people. Unfortunately, it seems like a breach is exactly what happened here with GoToMyPC, though as has been noted in the discussion already, the details are extremely sparse.

<comment><USER32> re Teamviewer: [http://blog.trendmicro.com/trendlabs-security- intelligence/u...](http://blog.trendmicro.com/trendlabs-security- intelligence/unsupported-teamviewer-versions-exploited-backdoors-keylogging/)

It's our responsibility to not configure hard to secure and easy to exploit remote access on friend/family computers but use on demand solutions instead.

If you need always-on remote access, then it's a requirement to secure it properly, and I will argue there's no need for always-on remote access on friend/family machines. Those aren't usually online anyway, so there's no hurdle to know beforehand and exchange the access token.

That said, I don't understand why anyone would trust an intermediary with access to their computer. Do they have a contract in place to expect a certain level of support and security? If not, there's no explanation I can think of.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> The headline seems a bit inaccurate. It looks like someone is trying to hack their customer accounts rather than GoToMyPC itself.

</comment><comment><USER29> I'm so glad I dropped gotomypc and went with rdp gateway. Their customer service is subpar. I tried reporting bugs and no one ever got back to me. I contact them on Twitter and email. Chirps! One day I had it enough and completely cancelled the service. There are better alternatives out there.

</comment><comment><USER35> I wonder if this is the same group which targeted the other remote desktop service a few weeks ago?

</comment><comment><USER36> How user friendly is guacamole? Anyone have any experience setting it up for non techies?

<comment><USER33> While I have not set it up personally, it seems if you were to get it up and running for them and have a relatively easy to remember domain, it shouldn't be too hard.

However, not having used it for a prolonged period, I don't know what the time investment for maintenance will be.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> If you do it right, you don't need to reset all customers' passwords.

</comment><comment><USER38> Of all the things to be hacked...

<comment><USER39> Just wait until IFTTT gets hacked. That has to be a huge target. Think of all the other services and physical devices on the network they'd potentially have the keys/access to.

Future Ouch.

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> Amen

</comment><comment><USER41> Gee, we have to wonder if some good anomaly detection

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11880593](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11880593)

would have detected that intrusion?</comment>


Have scientists discovered a fifth force of nature? - <AUTHOR> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/23/have-scientists-discovered-fifth-force-nature/ <comment><USER2> Duplicate of this post. [0]

I have the same comment as over there:

> It's important to keep in mind that there are _always_ plenty of outstanding > experimental anomalies in physics. At the moment, this is one of ~40 roughly > equally credible hints towards new physics, and it's more likely than not > that all of those hints will fade away over time. That isn't anybody's fault > either: it has always been like this, and it happens because experiments are > difficult and subtle.

0: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21616084](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21616084)

<comment><USER3> Why do they fade away? Because the experiments have been misinterpreted?

<comment><USER4> I'm a physicist and I've experienced this on the small scale of my own humble work developing measurement equipment. When you observe a surprising effect, you try to make it go away. First, you check to see if it's reproducible under a variety of conditions. Then you search for sources of bias and error that you might have overlooked. You remove things that you think should be extraneous to the purported effect.

At some point, you're satisfied enough, and you publish. Then the rest of the community goes to work trying to do the same thing, with more care, possibly more money, and more minds working on it.

<comment><USER5> Decades ago, when doing physics and programming together, I discovered the parallel between my experiment revealing an anomaly unexplainable by the current scientific theories and my code revealing a bug in the current version of the compiler. The most likely eventual outcome was not fame and glory but more likely, "Oh! Oops. Never mind...."

<comment><USER6> It's never a compiler bug, but when it implies new physics, it is more probably a compiler bug

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> This article makes the same mistake as the CNN one. It's "protophobic, meaning 'interacts with neutrons instead of protons'", not '"photophobic, meaning 'afraid of light'".

<comment><USER8> Thank you, that makes much more sense.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Only article I can find that actually seems to have information:

[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/dark-matter- parti...](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/dark-matter-particle- hungary-atomki-nuclear-research-force-nature-a9210741.html)

With link to not-yet-peer-reviewed paper:

[https://arxiv.org/abs/1910.10459](https://arxiv.org/abs/1910.10459)

<comment><USER10> [http://archive.is/YfVzW](http://archive.is/YfVzW)

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> "No." \--Law of Headlines

<comment><USER12> Someone should write an article: "When a headline is a question, is the answer no?"

<comment><USER13> [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headli...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines)

Any headline that ends in a question mark can confidently be answered no.

<comment><USER14> Reread parent's comment, the joke is that making a headline asking if that's true would be instantly answered no, making the law false by being true. It's a paradox. Sort of like Pinocchio saying "My nose will grow now!"

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> >The discovery is seen as taking us one step closer to the Holy Grail of physics: "unified field theory". This is a single theoretical framework which succinctly explains all the forces of nature.

how would this help. if anything it would make it harder, especially if there other forces, by calling into doubt preexisting assumptions about how physics works

<comment><USER16> If we were trying to figure out the logic behind a series of numbers and only were given the first four, and had no luck, wouldn't we want to know the fifth?

<comment><USER15> yes except that fundamental forces are not at all like numerical sequences generated by a function. gravity and electromagnetism couldn't be more dissimilar.

<comment><USER16> If such a grand unified theory exists (analogously, if there is a "logical" function that generates the sequence rather than (pseudo)-random numbers) then gravity and electromagnetism couldn't be more similar, right?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Evidence of a 'Fifth Force' Faces Scrutiny (2016) [https://www.quantamagazine.org/new-boson-claim-faces- scrutin...](https://www.quantamagazine.org/new-boson-claim-faces- scrutiny-20160607/)

TL;DR: authors have a long history of discovering new particles at various masses, but these discoveries disappear on later studies with no explanation.

<comment><USER18> If the lab has made every attempt to be honest, this may suggest they need to calibrate their equipment.

<comment><USER19> The credible measurements of new physics that are later ruled out are generally made at the edge of what is technically possible. Limiting and estimating all sources of systematic uncertainty is _our job_ , but it is a difficult one. It is generally possible to make uncertainty estimates that are so conservative as to be beyond reproach, but to do so also makes progress almost impossible.

I haven't yet had a chance to dig into this particular anomaly at 17 MeV, so what follows is speculation: It is a surprising mass range for anything new to emerge. The coupling constant, or its mechanism, must be so weak that it would avoid discovery in a century of other nuclear-physics and particle-physics experiments that have access to that energy scale. I am surprised that there hasn't yet been a devastating constraint on this thing from the electron- positron collider world.

<comment><USER18> I don't disagree at all! Tripping over rare findings are, in of themselves, rare events -- so much so that healthy skepticism is definitely warranted.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Can someone point to the article in PRL, I couldn't get more than moonshine from the linked news article.

</comment><comment><USER21> Until it's replicated authoritatively, no they haven't.

An in depth discussion from last time at The Reference Frame (guest blogger for those who don't like Lubos himself):

[https://motls.blogspot.com/2016/08/the-delirium-over- berylli...](https://motls.blogspot.com/2016/08/the-delirium-over- beryllium.html?m=1)

</comment><comment><USER22> Honestly, this makes the news media's handling of the BICEP2 announcement look like hard hitting investigative journalism.

</comment><comment><USER23> yeah, right - the telegraph is going to break this news to world.

</comment><comment><USER24> Mods please change the linked telegraph article it is awful.

[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/dark-matter- parti...](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/dark-matter-particle- hungary-atomki-nuclear-research-force-nature-a9210741.html)

is better

or the Arxiv

[https://arxiv.org/abs/1910.10459](https://arxiv.org/abs/1910.10459)

</comment><comment><USER25> What is more likely: the discovery of a 5th force, or a lab error? But hey, by all means make lemonade.

</comment><comment><USER10> [http://archive.is/j6dIG](http://archive.is/j6dIG)

</comment><comment><USER26> I don't know, have they?</comment>


Isn't Apple's announcement bad for society? - <AUTHOR>

I would think that creating a locked in format that will be incompatible with everything would be the worst thing to do, and that creatives wouldn't stand for it. Graphic and Multimedia designers that I know of are still feeling the effects of Adobe's problems with Flash, why should we support another non-open, non-standard format? Won't we in the future be complaining that we have to find someone who still has an iPad in order to get this material into a usable format? <comment><USER2> It's all about the form-factor. That Apple recognizes this and is attempting to capitalize on it is fully expected.

<comment><USER3> It's actually all about the DRM. Dynamic textbooks in that form factor could be done using open standards, but it's Apple's locked in proprietary format that Apple is selling to textbook publishers.

<comment><USER4> I'm sure the publishers are demanding DRM. I doubt Apple cares much, and going DRM-free would simplify things for Apple.

<comment><USER3> Apple cares _because_ the publishers care. Apple realizes that the customers (the students) are locked in to the schools, which are in turn locked in to the publishers, which are now locked in to Apple.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


The FIFA Bump: How a Video Game Makes Music Go Viral - <AUTHOR> http://blog.socialrank.com/2014/12/04/the-fifa-bump/

<comment><USER2> I used to turn on FIFA '06 on the background just to hear the soundtrack.

<comment><USER3> I'm all about Franz Ferdinand

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> fifa 99 is what started it all. fatboy slim</comment>


African firm is selling pepper-spray bullet firing drones - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-27902634 <comment><USER2> I am surprised that anyone would be caught off guard by this sort of thing. After all it is going to be much more effective to fly over a crowd and shoot at them than to try to hit them from behind a riot shield.

The Union outrage is interesting too, mostly because I agree that as your government (or companies) acquire tools for crowd control it certainly has a chilling effect on peaceful assembly. That said I don't see why these folks don't have drones of their own. They were used to good effect to document some of the protests in Turkey. As the drone is probably efiltrating its video during operation it is much harder for a repressive regime to shut it down and suppress the video.

<comment><USER3> >> That said I don't see why these folks don't have drones of their own

There's some important historical context here. The client was a South African mining company (I assume - it said mining company, and the company is in South Africa). There were recent riots in South Africa between a miner's union and the mine, and the miner's got slaughtered (literally). Most likely not the same company, but miner's in South Africa have a long, unfair history and it's getting worse. They're extremely destitute and there's no way I see them showing up to future protests with their own air support.

See: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marikana_miners'_strike](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marikana_miners'_strike)

<comment><USER4> The use of UAVs for commercial use, including this application, is at present illegal in South Africa. So it's not at all certain that the client is a South African mining company.

You're oversimplifying the events at Marikana, which were somewhat more complex.

The shooting itself was preceded by days of violence in which striking miners armed themselves with pangas (machetes) and guns and massacred two police officers, two mine security officers and six other miners accused of not participating in the strike.

It was the South African Police Service, not the mine, which shot 34 miners on that horrible day. They did so after an operation to remove the miners from the hilltop went horribly wrong, causing armed miners to run towards a line of policemen who panicked and opened fire.

It also does not appear that the miners' union involved, AMCU, is negotiating in good faith. Their non-negotiable salary demand of approximately US$1170 in base pay plus another US$470 in benefits takes them into the upper percentile of all South Africans and is more than a software developer with a three-year degree earns on entering the workplace.

Moreover, each time the government and the mines reach an agreement with AMCU on wages, AMCU has added additional demands not previously mentioned. It's clear their main desire is to extend the strike, already the longest in South Africa's history and responsible for two successive quarterly declines in GDP this year.

Those types of wages aren't sustainable, so we're starting to see the mining companies adopt the same techniques used in Australia and elsewhere which are more automated and require far fewer workers.

In the end those who suffer will be the miners and their families, most of whom live in dirt-poor rural areas and have no other income options. They've been abused by the mining companies and their own union in equal measure and let down by an incompetent government. There's no good outcome for them now.

<comment><USER5> > _Their non-negotiable salary demand of approximately US$1170 in base pay > plus another US$470 in benefits takes them into the upper percentile of all > South Africans and is more than a software developer with a three-year > degree earns on entering the workplace._

Well, miners in general create more value for their country and the world than the average "software developer with a three-year degree". Without modern computers you'd live in a 60s - 70s kind of society -- not very advanced technologically but tolerable. Without mining we'd live in a 1000 B.C. kind of environment (actually worse -- they still mined stuff back then).

Heck, without miners there wouldn't even be computers for the software developer to work on (CPUs, batteries etc materials very much tied to mining)!

> _Those types of wages aren 't sustainable_

Says who? The mining companies? The same companies who used child labor ("coal breakers") and paid miners a pittance while making a killing throughout the 20th century, especially taking advantage of immigrant and black miners?

<comment><USER4> No, they don't. As with most manual labour work, mine workers produce a relatively small amount of absolute monetary value per person compared to software developers and other skilled occupations. Wages are determined by those productivity levels and supply and demand. In general, the more people who can do a job, the lower the wage.

It goes without saying that this doesn't mean those with lower productivity are worth less as people, which is something many forget. All people should be treated with the same amount of care and dignity.

Your argument about us being perfectly ok without modern computers is odd, to say the least.

As for the wages being sustainable, the mining firms are public corporations, publish their financials openly and are audited by both private firms and the government. We are not merely taking their word for it.

<comment><USER5> > _No, they don 't. As with most manual labour work, mine workers produce a > relatively small amount of absolute monetary value per person compared to > software developers and other skilled occupations. Wages are determined by > those productivity levels and supply and demand. In general, the more people > who can do a job, the lower the wage._

Miners ages are mostly determined by supply and demand.

What monetary value they produce doesn't come into play. It's not like the mine owners share their huge profits with the miners.

> _Your argument about us being perfectly ok without modern computers is odd, > to say the least._

Well, I lived in an era without "modern computers" and it wasn't that bad at all. In fact in several respects it was better than today.

What does "perfectly OK" mean? I like my gadgets, shopping online, instant communications and everything. In fact, I'm one of those "programmers" (though with a better than 3-year degree).

But none of those things are indispensable. We managed without those, not in antiquity, but merely 40-50 years ago. And even 25 years ago mostly geeks had computers. The eighties, seventies are not some medieval dark ages of humanity. Much less so the sixties.

<comment><USER4> > _Miners ages are mostly determined by supply and demand._

> _What monetary value they produce doesn 't come into play. It's not like the > mine owners share their huge profits with the miners._

Of course productivity matters, as that's what determines how much profit is created and thus how much money is available for higher wages.

Since 2007, the wages of South African mine workers have increased by about 12% per annum on average, well above inflation, while productivity per worker has declined by 35% and total output has shrunk. For instance, during the commodities boom of 2001-2008, South Africa's mining sector shrank by 1% per year as opposed to a global average increase of 5%, largely caused by the cost increases of labour and electricity. As it is, labour costs are about 60% of the total costs of an average South African mine, compared to a global average of around 25%. And while Australian mine workers earn on average three times more than their South African counterparts, they produce 10 times more value per person.

So your assumption that mining firms in South Africa are making 'huge profits' off of their South African operations is incorrect. They used to, but that's no longer the case. South African gold and platinum mines are nearly all marginal in terms of profit and face a future of decreasing output and increasing input costs. That's why there's zero meaningful investment in new mining operations in the country, as all the mining multinationals have gone elsewhere in the world to find high-margin and high-profit opportunities. It's a dying sector.

The only way South African mines can remain sustainable is for costs to be dramatically cut, which is going to mean mechanising operations the same way as has been done in countries like Australia, allowing for the work force to be reduced massively and for higher-skilled workers to produce more. Those who remain will earn far more than even the highest union demand at the moment, those who are let go face certain poverty and suffering.

> _Well, I lived in an era without "modern computers" and it wasn't that bad > at all. In fact in several respects it was better than today._

> _What does "perfectly OK" mean? I like my gadgets, shopping online, instant > communications and everything. In fact, I'm one of those "programmers" > (though with a better than 3-year degree)._

> _But none of those things are indispensable. We managed without those, not > in antiquity, but merely 40-50 years ago. And even 25 years ago mostly geeks > had computers. The eighties, seventies are not some medieval dark ages of > humanity. Much less so the sixties._

We coped with that situation decades ago, the world has changed with the advent of better technology and thus the idea of us turning back the clock and suffering few consequences is what I find odd.

In any case, it's irrelevant. The software developer's salary was just an example of what a highly-skilled worker in South Africa earns, so it applies far more broadly than just to software. A country can certainly not do without a highly-skilled work force, its engineers, mechanics, scientists, etc.

What it comes down to is a simple calculus: The South African mining industry cannot afford to pay its 500 000 mostly-unskilled employees higher wages than the market is able to bear for even highly-skilled workers. Something has to give.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> The problem with the tools we are currently seeing created is this:

Nigeria (for example) doesn't derive its power from the people; but from its oil, currently being pumped by Western oil companies. The populace are simply an expense. The source of their money comes from Exxon and Shell; their military might from foreign weapons manufacturers. I know a number of people who work for said manufacturers.

</comment><comment><USER7> Surely these won't be too effective. They'd be easily brought down by getting anything at all (fishing wire, string, etc) fired from a makeshift catapult caught up in the rotors.

High tech crowd control that can be defeated with stuff you've got lying around in the kitchen doesn't seen too useful.

<comment><USER8> Provided someone brought the kitchen with them, sure.

Though I think you may underestimate how easy it is to dodge relatively slow moving things in the sky. I could see that sort of thing being defeated by the operator flicking the drone up sharply when people start throwing stuff.

<comment><USER9> How about a cheap little suicide drone launched by the "protesters"?

But ya, it seems some sections of rope with weights on the end (or improvised rope launchers) might be standard protest equipment if these things become widely deployed.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Side note: I'm always a little bothered when people attribute something from "Africa". Africa has 54 countries, c'mon people

<comment><USER11> What about when they attribute it to "Europe"?

Africa is a place, and the countries there are more similar to each other than to other countries, so combining them is natural.

<comment><USER12> > the countries there are more similar to each other than to other countries, > so combining them is natural.

That seems like a very inaccurate generalization. If you think, say, Egypt is "similar to" Madagascar, Malawi, or Mozambique, that's difficult to agree with.

They're in rough geographic proximity, if that's what you meant. But downtown Manhattan and Ecuador are also the same distance apart and they're pretty different.

<comment><USER11> I had a feeling someone would mention Egypt. But despite where it actually is Egypt is usually called Middle East, not Africa.

And you didn't reply about people combining Europe - to someone in Europe France and Germany could not be more different - to someone outside Europe they are more similar than they are different.

<comment><USER12> That's precisely my point -- that it's important not to succumb to our internal biases. Just because we think they're "mostly the same" doesn't mean they are.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> WTF. Blinding lasers aren't even allowed in combat during war, they're considered inhumane and banned under international law.

</comment><comment><USER14> Unfortunately, I can imagine militarized police departments all over the U.S. getting excited about these kinds of anti-crowd weapons.

<comment><USER15> A few drones plus an 'armored riot-control vehicle': [https://inkasarmored.com/armored-riot-control- vehicle/](https://inkasarmored.com/armored-riot-control-vehicle/) with a built in water canon and those evil protestors won't stand a chance.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> For a mining (or any) company to buy this to control workers is reprehensible, and it's rather shocking that they would publicize this as their first order. They could have just as easily said that an undisclosed buyer has purchased the first 25 of them. It's as if they are trying to market this as a slave- control copter.

However, this makes me wonder why we don't have small military drones with guns on them. It seems like they only have the large missile carriers and tiny surveillance drones. Something in the middle that is armed would eliminate most soldier-to-soldier battlefield confrontations. They could just send several small armed drones out and fire at their opposition with near perfect accuracy for every bullet since a computer would control the aiming and firing.

<comment><USER17> Define 'small'? Recoil and weight are the primary factors, I assume, in why no such beast exists.

Anything in the size of the average quad-copter is going to have to manage the fact that its flight trajectory would be significantly altered with each shot. The guys at Red Jacket invented something like that, and the way they mitigated the recoil was to have the barrel pointing straight down, which limits the effectiveness dramatically.

You're right, clearly, in that there's a lot of room between the missile and surveillance drones, but big enough to fire a rifle round might be a bit bigger than you suspect.

<comment><USER16> Agreed that a quad-copter wouldn't be able to handle the recoil, and that weight is a factor - bullets are (relatively) heavy. I was just saying that something the size of a Predator drone isn't necessary for close combat. I'm sure that there is some engineering magic that could be done to manage both of these issues in a relatively small package.

<comment><USER18> A swarm of small drones with photographic flashers could give one side of a gunfight a huge advantage.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> _" Desert Wolf's website states that its Skunk octacopter drone is fitted with four high-capacity paintball barrels, each capable of firing up to 20 bullets per second."_

If they sell this in the US our company paintball outings might get a little more interesting.

<comment><USER20> Take a look at this...

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vICfKPoCubw#t=258](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vICfKPoCubw#t=258)

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> If I were a manager at the mining company that purchased the drones, I would be worried about retaliation in kind by workers who obtained a similar drone.

<comment><USER22> Why drones - invest in smart ground based flak cannon manufacturing.

If we can't fly -- we won't let anyone else either - old anti aircraft moto.

<comment><USER23> Indeed. Here's something somewhat related, from PyCon 2012. It deals with using computer vision to fire a squirt gun at squirrels. The principle is basically the same.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPgqfnKG_T4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPgqfnKG_T4)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Technical solutions to people problems.

<comment><USER25> All solutions are technical. Only some are the wrong ones.

<comment><USER26> > _All solutions are technical._

What does this mean? When employees are on strike, one solution is to increase wages. How is this a technical solution?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> While I'm absolutely against using this kind of technology on peaceful civilians, I think it would be interesting to see autonomous non-lethal or less-than-lethal weapons deployed against actual terrorists. Not only would it virtually eliminate the risk of collateral damage, it would also allow us to capture and interrogate them.

</comment><comment><USER28> Fuck that and fuck you assholes who are excited about this torture weapon, it's gonna be used against people! The first order was probably for a mining company in Amazon, to torture the locals who defend their land against fucking mining companies. And soon, it's gonna be used everywhere in the world against people protesting for rights.

Lots of people lost their lives, lots of people lost their eyes by pepper gas bullets this year, including this 15 years old kid: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Berkin_Elvan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Berkin_Elvan)

See this documentary: [http://www.worldpressphoto.org/multimedia- gallery/2014/witne...](http://www.worldpressphoto.org/multimedia- gallery/2014/witnessing-gezi)

</comment><comment><USER29> They should send the drone to defcon this year to compete in defconbots (defconbots.org).

</comment><comment><USER30> I can't wait until someone builds a working ManHack. Only a matter of time at this rate.</comment>


DEA regularly mines Americans' travel records to seize millions in cash - <AUTHOR> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/08/10/dea-travel-record-airport-seizures/88474282/ <comment><USER2> _It is a lucrative endeavor, and one that remains largely unknown outside the drug agency. DEA units assigned to patrol 15 of the nation's busiest airports seized more than $209 million in cash from at least 5,200 people over the past decade after concluding the money was linked to drug trafficking, according to Justice Department records. Most of the money was passed on to local police departments that lend officers to assist the drug agency._

Rather than "concluding", it would be more accurate to say "nakedly fantasizing."</comment>


Everyone Hacks Everyone: Stop Assuming All Hackers Come From China - <AUTHOR> http://www.techinasia.com/hacks-stop-assuming-hackers-china/ <comment><USER2> I'm sure everyone knows very well that this "I was hacked by China" is just a convenient excuse, and nothing else.

Think of it: Even in the rare case that your logs actually show that the attack came from a Chinese IP address, that machine was almost certainly cracked, too. Or, does anyone really think that a serious attacker would run attacks directly from their own system?

So the story goes like this: Someone failed to secure their systems and were cracked by a more or less complicated attack. Since they don't want to admit that it was some cheap security, they point to the evil genious Chinese attacker, against whom no super-secure system whatsoever would have had a chance.

It is quite similar to the argument of "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM equipment". This is not about the quality of IBM, it's about being able to say "I have done everything as good as possible".

<comment><USER3> I tried to say just the same thing on previous posts. The Hacker News community does not tolerate differing opinions.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Just got let go, what now? - <AUTHOR> Worked in sales as an engineer, automated our POC builds (used to take weeks now takes a few minutes) but unfortunately the product struggles.<p>I don't know what to do! <comment><USER2> Let yourself grieve. Cry if you need to. Feel sorry for yourself. Go ahead. It's OK to do that.

For a day, maybe two. Then put it behind you.

You had some concrete accomplishments in that job. That's evidence that you can do things that will help other companies. Don't look down at yourself because you were let go. You can do good work, and you proved it. Use that proof. Use it, when you get down, to remind yourself that you've got genuine ability and talent. And use it in job seeking to demonstrate that you have something to offer.

</comment><comment><USER3> Some practical next steps -

1) Take care of yourself first, workout daily. This will greatly help your mental game.

2) Punch-up your Linkedin profile and formal CV.

3) Define where you see yourself next? Another Sales Engineer role with a tech firm? Something else?

4) Start researching players doing interesting work in your market; then reach out to them.

5) Network; attend conferences, meet-ups, & events. Great way to stay social and uncover opportunities.

</comment><comment><USER4> Take a short breather and let your mind clear. Right now you likely are feeling a lot of emotions and want to figure out what actions to take - instead you need to allow the emotions to simmer down and instead think through next steps.

I don't know your situation so I can't tell you what to do after that, but for now you need to make sure you act on rationality, not impulse :)</comment>


Bricolage: Doing More with Less - <AUTHOR> https://sidewalkandverge.wordpress.com/2015/05/01/bricolage-doing-more-with-less/

<comment><AUTHOR> Interesting exploration of models for innovation across different cultures. Key paragraph:

What bricoleurs, DIYers and tinkerers have in common is that they are inventors – improvising solutions without obvious or sophisticated tools. They know how to make the most of what they have and muddle through. Where there are no high tech research and development labs, the street is the lab. In India for example, the improvised fix (or Jugaad as it is known in Hindi-Urdu) is not about making do but making things better.</comment>


Zetes: A lightweight cross-platform GUI application framework for Java - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/bigfatbrowncat/zetes <comment><USER2> People are complaining about how bad SWT is, and I definitely agree. It's a product of systems engineers, not the modern hipster-designer breed of developers.

If you fall into the latter category and want to work with Java, I highly recommend JavaFX Webview. It's essentially webkit as a UI layer, so you get to work with HTML5/Bootstrap/whatever. Surprisingly, its interface from Java to Javascript is quite well designed.

<comment><USER3> I second your JavaFX Webview recommendation. And if you are using JavaFX, you can always use its built-in native packaging tool

[http://docs.oracle.com/javafx/2/deployment/self-contained- pa...](http://docs.oracle.com/javafx/2/deployment/self-contained- packaging.htm)

Not to say everything else is perfect in JavaFX world but I think if you want to deploy a JavaFX application that is cross platform, the only major missing piece now is auto update support/framework for these self contained applications

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> This actually looks intriguing. Some links to screenshots or sample programs would be nice.

<comment><USER5> Zetes Examples: [https://github.com/bigfatbrowncat/zetes- examples](https://github.com/bigfatbrowncat/zetes-examples)

<comment><USER6> Low-res and you can't really see the control elements.

Color me skeptical.

<comment><USER4> Indeed, apps consisting of cat pictures in otherwise empty windows don't inspire me.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> > Zetes is a crossplatform lightweight framework which allows the user to > develop console or native-looking GUI programs, written in Java, that could > run on a machine without any JVM installed.

Awesome, sounds great.

> And in addition it has a beautiful GUI (based upon SWT).

Hm, I had a bad experience with SWT (which was over 10 years ago, so probably irrelevant). But what annoyed me is that if Windows could do X and Y, and Linux could do Y and Z, then SWT could only do Y. I found its lack of features a problem. I felt like I had to create my own components by hand a lot of the time. Swing, on the other hand, would let me do X, Y and Z and make sure they look decent on both OSes.

> The main feature of the library is that it makes a thin wrapper on SWT and > basic system libraries that makes it possible to make an app which has a > native look-and-feel under different platforms. For example, the "Exit" item > is in system menu on OS X, but in "File" menu under Windows; about box has > "OK" button in Windows, but doesn't have any on OS X and so on...

Mind, it's been over 10 years, but how is this different from plain SWT? Is it just that it can run without a JRE?

<comment><USER8> A lot of effort went into this obviously.

How does it compare to JavaFX -- the new GUI toolkit built into the standard JRE now?

(I have not used SWT, but I do love JavaFX)

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> JVM is a sticky affair by itself.For concurrent and per-formant GUI applications in java that grow over a given expectation,it would need very specific VM tuning like GC behavior,native profiling etc.Most of it comes packaged in a decently stable manner for Oracle JVM, how about a new JVM vendor like in here?

Also am i the only one or is JVM packaging a really big affair?Cant we use netbeans platform pack200+MSI installer or pack200+linux+native_installer or similar for packaging as app?

<comment><USER8> You mean to bundle a jre into your application?

There is:

\- install4j

\- exe4j

\- AdvancedInstaller

etc...

All will bundle your jre into an exe, msi, .sh (auto-unpacker), etc. You can even do .dmg's if you want.

I actually find packaging my java apps pretty easy. :)

Also... there are a LOT of JVM vendors. Oracle's JRE/JDK just so happens to be the most well known. Besides OpenJDK/JRE, many other companies make their own such as IBM, BAE, BlueSystems, etc.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> From supported os section:

> Ubuntu 12.10 or any compatible (x86_64)

Is it gtk compatible or what? Why just 12.10? Some specific gtk version? I don't get it.

<comment><USER8> You are interpreting this wrong I believe.

I think the intent was to say:

Linux, on any x86_64 architecture, is supported.

For some reason... people like to list Ubuntu instead of "Linux" when stating they support Linux. The 12.10 is probably just to ensure you have a relatively recent disto.

<comment><USER11> I tend to think when people specifically claim to support "Ubuntu" (instead of "Linux") it means they actively tested it with Ubuntu and have determined that it is compatible with Ubuntu. I guess it's easier to just assume everyone uses Ubuntu rather than put in the time/effort to confidently assert that it works with any distro you throw at it.

<comment><USER8> Probably a fair assessment. However, it should "just work" on any Linux disto provided any dependencies are installed on the distro and/or packaged into the toolkit.

If there are system-side dependencies... I'd like it more if they just listed those... then I can determine if my Fedora system, for example, will work or not... and I know what I need so that it will work instead of just guessing.

Looking at the toolkit... well.. it's Java... so it will "just work" provided java is installed on your machine (a given if you are writing or running a java program). There is some native C in there, likely for hooking into the OS and making windows, etc.... that _could_ be system specific... but probably still does not require any external dependencies. So... this toolkit... probably "just works".

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> There is a blog post in russian: [https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev...](https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fhabrahabr.ru%2Fpost%2F225187%2F&edit- text=)

<comment><USER12> The screenshot for the TinyViewer on Windows shows why this sort of thing is difficult to pull off well. The File drop-down doesn't align where it should, it hangs off to the left. The Window drop-down is far, far worse.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Not a Java guy. Not sure the differences between JDK 1.7.x and JDK 8 (8u5 is the current version in the link). I assume it's JDK 1.8.x, but am not sure. Is JDK 8 okay or do we need an older version?

</comment><comment><USER14> i think it's very telling that someone built a GUI framework but didn't feel the need for any screenshots. If it's a GUI tool and it ain't worth showing screenshots, then it ain't worth using IMNSHO.

<comment><USER9> Examples: [https://github.com/bigfatbrowncat/zetes- examples](https://github.com/bigfatbrowncat/zetes-examples)

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> To see the difference between Swing and SWT just look at Intellij and Eclipse.

Intellij (use the darkula theme its beautiful), looks great and responds very quickly in both the editor and when performing asynchronous operations. (I have issues with some of its functionality but thats a different story). Intellij is Swing.

Eclipse, is a 2 second push to pain IDE and always has been. Its SWT. As a 15 year java developer I really believe anyone building on the eclipse/SWT framework needs to stop. There is no benefit to the user or the developer at this point to using it except to support a dead fork of the language. In fact there really are no (as in almost zero) SWT apps out there, so why would you think its even a good idea 10 years later? Go work for IBM submit a patch to eclipse. YAY.

I have built personally beautiful apps using Swing, and if Intellij can pull it off so well, clearly swing has gotten a bad rap.

My last nit pick is the exe concept. This is utterly moronic. Its a more or less straightforward concept to bundle a JRE with your app or use an installed local copy. People have only been doing this for oh I dunno, 13 or so years??

The Windows-ification of Java gets infinite down votes from me. The SWT part is merely a waste of time.

<comment><USER16> Yeah. Swing is so easy to use and you can make it do anything you want. I don't know why people complain so much. I got used to using layout managers and not specifying x,y locations and widths and heights that I just don't like JavaFX.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> After my horrible experience building a desktop cross platform app in Swing GUI, I vowed to never use Java. I wonder how Zetes addresses the problems with Swing.

<comment><USER18> Any concrete example of issues with Swing, or just general discomfort?

<comment><USER19> The font rendering for Linux is terrible. Just look at Intellij IDEA in ubuntu for example.

It's a wonderful editor but I can't use it since it is almost not readable.

<comment><USER20> >> The font rendering for Linux is terrible.

Ubuntu fonts are great, which Linux are you talking about and is this recent as in the last 5 years experience or is it qualified non-sense on your part?

>> Just look at Intellij IDEA in ubuntu for example.

I have, I'm not impressed overall though on Ubuntu the fonts are fine. I stick with Eclipse because SWT was and is a brilliant idea, the widgets don't just look native, they _are_ native.

That bears repeating, with SWT, the widgets don't just look native, they _ARE_ native.

<comment><USER21> Swing does its own font rendering, so the fonts look wrong[0] on every platform.

[0] Where "wrong" means "different from what is expected on the platform" – until we get higher-resolution screens font rendering is a compromise between sharpness and correctness-of-shape; different platforms make different choices; users adjust to the specific choices their platform has made. To observe this in the wild, read any discussion of Safari on Windows.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Why is 80 characters the 'standard' limit for code width? - <AUTHOR> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/148677/why-is-80-characters-the-standard-limit-for-code-width <comment><USER2> Relatedly, github insists on this width in both their language style guides and code windows on the web site. The VT100 had a 132 columns and was released 34 years ago!

Why are we still limiting code to 80 characters per line?

<comment><USER3> I find 132 columns is too wide for code (Good for tabular data, but not for code.) I want something I can read by running my eyes down the code. For me, this means no more than about 90 characters. A width of 132 cols means I have to stop and read back and forth, making it impossible to scan for something. Of course, YMMV.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> The highest-rated answer doens't explain anything... he just says that IBM's punch cards had 80 colums. What does that have to do with conventions for entering text in an editor?

<comment><USER5> The card puncher _was_ the editor.</comment></comment>


iBooks 2? How Ethernet frames work. Simple and fun. - <AUTHOR> http://www.wisc-online.com/Objects/ViewObject.aspx?ID=CIS6508

<comment><AUTHOR> I don't know how I came to this site, but has hundreds of short interactive presentations about many different topics.

Can't be compared to iBook 2 in terms of UI, but the simple content explanation and the way it's disposed (not linear like a normal book) is excellent.</comment>


Show HN: TheMovieBro, a movie recommendation app based on a few simple questions - <AUTHOR> http://www.themoviebro.com <comment><USER2> Lost me at "Sign in with Facebook".

You can't do a demo without trying to slurp up my social network?

<comment><AUTHOR> We put the login with Facebook as the only option because we use the information about movies the user liked to provide better customized results. We realized that this was potentially going to lose us some users, and we kind of put it here on HN as a test, to see if somebody was going to complain.

Anyway, we are going to have a "normal" registration/login feature very soon and both options are going to be available.

Thanks for taking the time to comment!</comment></comment>


Microsoft abandon Metro name due to legal challenge - <AUTHOR> http://www.loopinsight.com/2012/08/02/microsoft-ditches-metro-now-using-windows-8-style-ui/ <comment><USER2> "Windows 8-style UI"???? Did their legal team pick that name? This says so much about the state of Microsoft.

This new name has a totally different persona and sends a confusing, unsexy message about Microsoft's vision for the future. It shows no competent person/team is in charge of maintaining a unified, consistent brand, but I guess we already knew that. The name "Metro" must have been an accident. Is "Windows 8-style UI" even really a name? It's more of a literal description. I don't know how you could pick something more lacklustre.

The experience formerly known as "Metro" encapsulates all of the innovative, risky developments Microsoft has been making on the UI front, with mostly positive responses (at least regarding the appearance). Metro was the word for Microsoft's sex appeal. Changing the name to something so unmemorable and vanilla is like deleting the word and its definition from the dictionary.

While this could have been a great opportunity to fuel the hype for the new UI with a slick new name, instead they choose to wet blanket the whole thing, making "Metro" not even really a thing anymore.

Microsoft needs help, they're clearly very, very sick.

<comment><USER3> "If Microsoft had invented sushi, they would have called it 'Cold Dead Fish'"

<comment><USER4> Windows Chillfish, Enterprise Plus Edition

[Edit] I take that back. Judging by how their legal department utterly dropped the ball in making sure "Metro" was a usable name, they probably would have gone with a name like "iFish", or "Fishoogle", or "Wal-Mart".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Just some facts for those that don't understand how Metro AG can strong-arm Microsoft into changing their brand name: Metro ows Media Markt ( <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Markt> ) and Saturn ( <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_(store)> ), both of which are huge electronics stores in Europe all the way to Russia. Media Markt is the second largest electronics retailer after Best Buy _worldwide_. Both already have an agreement with Apple about store in store. The worst thing Microsoft could do is piss them off, even if they would win the trademark dispute in court.

Also, it would lead to the strange situation that you could buy "Metro" (the UI) products in a "Metro" store, which could lead to actual confusion.

<comment><USER6> Metro AG is not a brand recognized by the public. People only know the names of its retailers. I live in an area with those stores, and if you asked any random passerbys what "Metro" is, they would come up with references to public transport, not Metro AG.

This is also not the first time Metro AG pressed other brands that _are_ interacting with the public into a name change. It did the same thing with the free european commuter's newspaper "Metro", resulting in a name change in at least one country (Switzerland). [http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2008/sep/22/europ...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2008/sep/22/europe2) <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_International>

<comment><USER5> Sorry, but thats no true. Metro does have stores called METRO which are well known and they do have electronics departments (hence the reference to being able to buy "Metro" at "Metro"). Not internationally maybe, but in Germany, everyone knows Metro as a cash and carry store as well.

<http://www.n-tv.de/img/67/674025/O_1000_680_680_metro.jpg>

And as I said: even if Metro AGs claim is not valid, they are not one to piss off as someone who sells electronics or software.

<comment><USER6> Interesting. So close and I've never heard of them.

But it's a wholesale retailer, e.g. it's targeted towards registered professional customers rather than end consumers. My point still stands, the large majority of the public does not interact with them.

Source: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Cash_and_Carry>

<comment><USER5> Close to a Metro store, having access to a Metro card is like having a driving license: most people have it or they don't want it. I would say that most of the customers there are not "professionals". I live close to one and use it as a supermarket. Also, Microsoft does also sell to professional customers, so it is still a conflict of interest.

And, my point also stands: I don't care whether Metros claim is valid or not. They are a major distribution partner and Microsoft is depending on them. This is why they can strong-arm Microsoft rather than having to go to court. I don't care the slightest about the "normal people"-argument, because it doesn't matter.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Before it came out, the best guess for the name of an Apple phone was "iPhone." But Cisco already produced an Internet phone called iPhone.

Apple called their phone iPhone anyway and told their lawyers to work out the price with Cisco.

On the one hand this makes Apple look like jerks, but on the other hand there is no question who is in charge of marketing: the marketing guys. Not the lawyers.

This decision by Microsoft seems in sharp contrast. Here the lawyers are telling the marketing guys what to do. And the result is laughably bad. It's too bad because "Metro" was a great brand name for a new user interface.

<comment><USER8> iPhone was just an abandoned product line of Cisco so Apple could license it easily. Metro is fifth largest retailer in the world that incidentally sells consumer electronics. It will be like Apple naming one of their products Walmart and asking the lawyers to get the rights because the marketing team wouldn't budge.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_AG>

<comment><USER9> I'm sure they could have worked out a deal... this is _Microsoft_ \- did they not want to invest in a key brand? How typical. Microsoft shedding brands like a snake molts. How is anyone supposed to trust their platform?

<comment><USER10> Metro isn't a key brand. Its a brand targeting developers. The adds for windows phone 7, and presumable Windows 8 will never, have never mentioned Metro.

Really I don't understand why you're so angry, if they'd stopped using Windows, or Microsoft or Office you might have a point, but Metro?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Huh. The Metro Group is much, much bigger than I imagined when I saw it was a German store. Wikipedia says they're the 5th biggest retailer in the world, 67B Euro in revenue in 2010.

Surprised this American, that's for sure. I can imagine why Microsoft would rather just let this one go.

edit: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_AG>, naturally.

<comment><USER12> I am not sure about American equivalent, but in here (Czech), it operates under the name "makro" and it is these kind of hypermarkets for smaller and middle sized bussinesses and they have everything in smaller prices and bulk sizes/bigger boxes, that don't make sense for individuals but do make sense for, say, a small restaurant.

from wikipedia: "Core customer groups are hotels, restaurants, caterers, traders and other business professionals."

<comment><USER13> According to Wikipedia "makro" also exists in the UK:

> In 2009, Makro is the third largest cash & carry wholesaler in the UK with a > turnover of £1.1bn and a portfolio of 30 depots nationally.

I've not heard of them before (lived in England all my life) , it makes me wonder how many other giant companies fly under the layman's radar.

<comment><USER14> Speaking off the record as an employee of a (seriously) gigantic US/Canadian distributor of things, I can tell you a couple facts.

One, if you're in the US or Canada, you've seen our trucks and our stores and probably have no idea what we actually do for our money. And two, that's the way we like it. The company actually has customers sign a contract saying they won't advertise their supplier, and on one occasion refused shipment to a _charity_ for breech of contract when they put our name on their list of sponsors. We made $60,000 off the lawsuit.

There are mega corporations who like to be known. And there are mega corporations who would prefer that only their customers know they exist (and even then, only reluctantly). I would guess that there are more of the second kind than of the first.

<comment><USER15> Not allowing your name to be used is quite normal. Company I know doesn't allow other companies to show that they have that company as a customer.

Reason for that is branding. The other company is basically advertising using the name of another company. That is a big no. It is sort of saying "company X buys from us, so you should too".

<comment><USER14> We found out a vendor was using our name to pimp their products to other distributors. That vendor was then caught with bad policies that allowed their product to become infected with malware. As we were dealing with that issue, we got a call from one of our competitors asking if we were infected as well, as they knew we used the same product from the same vendor.

You're absolutely right, keeping your brand carefully under your control is absolutely critical.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> But how can there be trademark confusion between a retail store and an OS interface?

I'm really surprised at this. Or was Metro just a codename all along, the word never used in the Windows 8 product itself? In which case, not worth a fight?

<comment><USER17> Yeah and how can you trademark a word like 'Apple.' It beggars belief. How about Microsoft Metro?

<comment><USER18> Oh the history of Apple vs Apple records (setup by the beatles - music group some heard of) is a realy good read.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> They should just tweak the spelling to Windows Metwo. Then they could market it as Windows Me 2.0.

I know that's a ridiculous, non-HN type of comment, but really it's no more ridiculous than someone confusing a software UI style with a retail store.

<comment><USER20> MS also has retail stores though.

<comment><USER19> That's a valid point. I don't think the brick and mortar store would be a factor, but if Microsoft's app store had a Metro app section, then Metro AG would have a legitimate claim to defend their trademark.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> I loved the suggestion _They should condense it to the "W8" or "wait" UI._ I wish _I_ had thought of that! I know what I'll be referring to Win8 from now on. :-D

<comment><USER22> As nice as that may sound, I don't think Windows 8 is a 'wait' UI. Once you learn how to use it properly it's actually significantly faster than Windows 7.

<comment><USER23> What does 'properly' mean? Does that mean it must be tweaked and optimized to run fast?

<comment><USER24> Vanilla Win 8 install on a bootable vhd on my notebook runs noticeably faster than a vanilla install of Win 7 on the same machine. Also, once you come to terms with the start screen just being a full screen start menu (less than an hour of use), the whole thing just kind of makes sense. I don't use Win 8 differently than Win 7, when all is said and done, other than small productivity increases from everything seeming to be quicker to find/access.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Why not submit the more substantial link from ars technica?

The Loop link we have here is basically the same one liner Gruber made but 30 minutes later. {this decribes a lot of posts from The Loop}

</comment><comment><USER18> Class, not the first time a company have publicly announced a product before launch, rolled with it for a year then then just before launch got pointed out there nicking somebody else's name. Metro is also a free newspaper in the UK, name of a subway system....

RIM had the same level of snafu recently as well with the whole BBX branding they went on about and then got told it was somebody elses.

Microsoft could just add another M infront and call it MMetro, but whatever they call it, it's putting a mobile phone interface onto a desktop, so what do they call it on there mobile platform?

ALso why did they pick Metro - what did it stand for Microsoft Enormous Tile Royalty Option(!) Meaningless Enviroment To Ride Obscurity(!) I don't know and I don't think they did either.

Still at least we have more faith in them testing thre software than we do there naming, don't we.

<comment><USER26> Could it be that newspaper and subway system that were named Metro are both operating locally so there's no brand confusion while Metro AG has worldwide operations?

<comment><USER18> More than likely, but it is understandable that nobody would want to be associated with what microsoft is pushing out as a UI.

I also wonder though that it is this late stage that perhaps Metro AG is not that big of a global brand that the only confusion would be non existant. Especialy as there business appears as unrelated as any paper or tube train.

Still its PR for Metro AG and given the late stage maybe some potentual pay off from Microsoft, why else leave it until now.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> It's actually a good thing for them. Generic bland names, such as "Metro", "Live", "Color", "Slide" do not work. "New iPad" is better.

<comment><USER28> Have you forgotten how much everyone hated the iPad name when it was first announced? "New iPad" only sounds good because people have come to the love the iPad.

<comment><USER29> Remember when Nintendo anounced the name "Wii"? Everyone was ridiculing it and web cartoonists had a productive work day. And then everybody moved on and today it is just normal.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Maybe changing the name of the product when it is finally released to the public is a good idea?, they basically remove the link between the early reviews and the final product. So the public might not even see the these initial bad reviews etc.

</comment><comment><USER31> According to the zdnet article linked by recoilednsake:

Update: A spokesperson is now saying the reason for this Metro de-emphasis is not related to any litigation. (I asked if it is related to any kind of copyright dispute that hasn't yet gone to litigation and was told there would be no further comment.)

The spokesperson added:

"We have used Metro style as a code name during the product development cycle across many of our product lines. As we get closer to launch and transition from industry dialog to a broad consumer dialog we will use our commercial names."

<comment><USER32> Their earlier literature makes this harder to believe:

> Metro is our design language. We call it Metro because it's modern and > clean. It's fast and in motion. It's about content and typography. And it's > entirely authentic.

At some point, trying to spin something obviously related to legal issues makes you look silly. Why not just say they respect the established brand and gain nice-guy points?

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> Why not just call it Urban?

</comment><comment><USER22> I doubt this will have a lasting negative impact on the Windows 8 platform, because I suspect that the majority of mainstream users haven't really encoded the 'Metro' name into their minds yet.

Still, if this is true, it's not great news for MS.

(And neither for those who have already registered sites like metrodev.com)

</comment><comment><USER34> I think I'll wait for a more trustworthy confirmation of this rumor to get worked up about it.

</comment><comment><USER35> Microsoft might abandon it, but as a name for a certain visual style, I suspect "Metro" will live on. (Consider Ajax. Also a brand of cleaning products.) It's too distinctive a style to either lack a name or be tied to one product (like Windows 8).

</comment><comment><USER36> Same thing happended with Windows Workflow Foundation in 2005.

[http://blogs.msdn.com/b/scottwoo/archive/2005/10/13/480676.a...](http://blogs.msdn.com/b/scottwoo/archive/2005/10/13/480676.aspx)

</comment><comment><USER37> This is rather silly, I wonder if this is also why Longhorn was changed to Vista. I for one hope the use of Metro sticks around just to spite Metro AG.

<comment><USER38> Longhorn wasn't changed to vista, it was always a code name and never intended for release. Just like windows whistler and windows blackcomb were never intended to be release names.

<comment><USER39> For those curious, those names came about because there is a Longhorn Bar in the Whistler-Blackcomb ski resort in British Columbia.

Here is Wikipedia's list of Microsoft codenames: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Microsoft_codenames>. Strangely, the article lists Metro as the Windows 7 UI. Also, the XML Paper Specification (XPS) had previously also used the Metro codename.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> I'm not sure how much of an impact this will have. I'm guessing that the name 'Metro' will stick around, even if Microsoft doesn't officially use it.

</comment><comment><USER41> Someone really dropped the ball on this. They should have had this figured out before they used the name "Metro" for the first time.

</comment><comment><USER42> But everybody is going to call it "Metro" anyway!

</comment><comment><USER43> A legal challenge has never stopped them before. Also you'd imagine they could always come to some compensation agreement.

</comment><comment><USER44> Apple would have kept the Metro name and settled out of court later. Its a shame that Microsoft is too risk-averse.

</comment><comment><USER4> Metro is just about the only thing Microsoft has going for it these days, as far as I'm concerned. What a blunder.

<comment><USER9> Kinnect is a winner, too.

<comment><USER4> Indeed. When I say "just about", I'm referring to the Xbox division. Some good stuff happening there too.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> This is truly a shame and probably explains why Microsoft chose Windows Phone OS instead of Metro OS. I wonder why they didn't attempt to license the name or fight it (since it's unlikely that using the same name for a UI style and a retailer would cause any consumer confusion).

<comment><USER46> That doesn't mean picking "Windows Phone" isn't still a blunder. "Windows" is not a great brand to begin with and it already had a worse reputation after Microsoft abandoned Windows Mobile. Unfortunately, all of the WP7 shenanigans have only made this worse.

At this point, they really should go with something like "Xbox Phone" and I half-wonder if they'd do better with "Bob Phone" (it was at least a long time ago).

</comment></comment><comment><USER47> How come this is coming up only now? Didn't WP7 release in 2010?

</comment><comment><USER48> MS is like the Keystone Cops of the tech world sometimes.

</comment><comment><USER49> Seriously, "Metro"? It's a dictionary word, and they are completely in different branches. I wouldn't expect Microsoft to give up just like that..

</comment><comment><USER38> I like this. 'metro' is unnecessary jargon, a design language does not need to have a trademark name. Just referring to it as what it is makes a lot more sense.

<comment><USER50> Why can't a design language have a name (not necessarily a trademark)?

It can be used to differentiate it from what it's not. Programmers use names for everything, why can't a design have a name?

Apple had the aqua visual style, that is no longer with us.

<comment><USER51> Wouldn't this be more akin to Cocoa and Carbon in the Apple world? Metro goes a bit deeper than _just_ the UI layer, as I understand it.

<comment><USER52> Not quite. Cocoa is really just an Objective-C API, though it's coupled with Aqua through Xcode and recent innovations like AutoLayout, whereby HIG policies are enforced by code. Metro seems to be more than that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> I call bullshit on this one. Metro is a dictionary word so it cannot be trademarked as it is. I don't believe Microsoft would give up so easily.

<comment><USER54> Broadly speaking, any word can be trade marked if it is distinctive/not descriptive. Apple is distinctive for computers, but not for actual apples. As a result, I couldn't get a trade mark for 'Apple' for apples, but I could (or at least Apple did) for computers etc.

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> Better story than the blogspam linked:

[http://www.zdnet.com/is-metro-now-a-banned-word-at- microsoft...](http://www.zdnet.com/is-metro-now-a-banned-word-at- microsoft-7000002052/)

This is actually a good move, since the Metro design philosophy was getting confused with the WinRT environment. You can make a WinRT app that's not Metro looking, and you can also make a Desktop app that's Metro (see MetroTwit [http://www.metrotwit.com/wp- content/themes/MetroTwit2012/ima...](http://www.metrotwit.com/wp- content/themes/MetroTwit2012/images/mtwindows8_screen.png) ).

So the two different app types in Windows 8 will be WinRT apps and Desktop apps. Not a big fan of the 'Windows 8 style UI' terminology though, maybe they should come up with a different name to represent the design philosophy.

<comment><USER56> I think this is a demotion for desktop apps. The phrase "Windows 8 style UI" implies that the colorful rectangle look is _the_ style for Windows 8. The classic desktop environment, by implication, is not Windows 8 style.

<comment><USER57> The Metro look is supposed to be ported to the desktop experience (see: office 13, github for windows). Their intention is for normal desktop applications to adopt his theme.

The classic desktop environment is windows 8 style. Apps that are not developed for it, certainly are not Windows 8 style.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER58> How did this not come up before?

</comment><comment><USER59> Oh zune.

<comment><USER60> I love short jokes.</comment></comment>


Los Angeles Just Proposed the Worst Use of License Plate Reader Data in History - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@nselby/los-angeles-just-proposed-the-worst-use-of-license-plate-reader-data-in-history-702c35733b50#.kv106ahwo <comment><USER2> Also submitted at:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10640989](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10640989)</comment>


Ask HN: Notion or TiddlyWiki for free a * personal * wiki? - <AUTHOR> A bit of backgroud, I have been searching for a well suited personal wiki for some time. I am a programmer and I am well versed with linux and open source. Over the course of searching for the perfect software for my purposes, I came across Notion and TiddlyWiki. Notion(www.notion.so/) and TiddlyWiki(https://tiddlywiki.com/) both look super good for a personal knowledge base. Looking at the feature sets, both of them look highly customisable. For my purposes, I have been fascinated by Zettelkasten and hence, I was trying for a software which can be linked to it, to Roam or Obsidian or something else. I plan on keeping a personal wiki and then taking out core ideas from them into my zattlekasten.
Notion being great out of the both wihtout the need to do many things to make it useful. Great sync feature and unlimited storage for a free Personal plan.
TiddlyWiki on the other hand also has great features and amazing customisability. It's open source, so it's more flexbile if one knows how to code. But setting up TiddlyWiki has a learning curve.
So, what's the take of the HN community over Notion or TiddlyWiki, which one do you prefer and why so ? Here I am trying to especially look for a software for keeping a personal wiki.
If you have some other alternative to the following two, please feel free to share. <comment> Maha-pudma Zim Wiki[1] is amazing as a personal wiki. Loads of good official plugins and unofficial. Everything stored as text and organised in folders. Supports code highlighting, pasting images, tasks, journal, links (internal and external), back links, version control, etc. Just an all round brilliant piece of software.

1: [https://zim-wiki.org/](https://zim-wiki.org/)

<comment><AUTHOR> Definately like zim, it's amazing and I can use it with vim also. Only con that stopped me for using it is that it doesn't have cross platform support, as I would also like to keep my wiki accessible on my android device. Thank you so much for the suggestion ! :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER2> In the same boat myself. Been using Notion for a decent bit now. I like it for a great many things, but wiki-style knowledge management just isn't one of them.

TW, on the other hand, excels at this.

You're right on all accounts. Notion is a slicker experience right out of the box. TW takes some fiddling to set it up in a way that you really enjoy using. And, it still has pain points. The editing experience is not my favorite, switching in and out of edit mode.

But, it absolutely shines at Zettlekasten and networked thought. In addition, several recent TW projects have really upped the value for this. Check out the Krystal theme to essentially recreate Andy's Notes. Then, add the Streams plugin to get easier outlining functionality for quick creation. I like this much better than what i was attempting in Notion. Backlinks and transfusion are crucial to networked, non-linear thinking, in my experience.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, as a programmer TW makes much more sense to me as I am not locked in by what I get, I can add additional functionality as and when I require.

There's also some things about notion that are starting to bother me, like the startup times of the application are insane, even if i want to just save a quick link, I cannot add tags to it. The out of customisability and freedom are great and definately appreciate what they have done to make it so much simpler to use for just about anyone, but sometimes the lock in just annoys a bit too.

Thank you so much for the Krytal theme!!!

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Since you're a programmer and value customisability & open-source, have you thought about trying emacs org-mode?

I was also in a similar position trying to decide between TiddlyWiki, Notion, Evernote, OneNote, Confluence, etc, for a personal knowledge base, but eventually settled on org-mode. Lots of people use it for managing TODOs, planning, and organising things, but I use it as a personal knowledge base.

org-mode out of the box supports hierarchical note taking with headings and links to other files or headings. You can also use org-roam ([https://github.com/org-roam/org-roam](https://github.com/org-roam/org-roam)) to get something like a Roam or Zettelkasten workflow (with backlinks etc) without having to use separate software (since you said "I plan on keeping a personal wiki and then taking out core ideas from them into my zattlekasten" maybe you will find this useful). If your notes include references/links to academic papers, then you'll love org-ref (bibtex integration).

If you're interested, I'd recommend having a play about with vanilla emacs and the Doom Emacs configuration ([https://github.com/hlissner/doom- emacs](https://github.com/hlissner/doom-emacs)).

It's definitely more work to set up than Notion, but much more customisable and you're in full control of your data (and can store everything under version control!). I've not used TiddlyWiki enough to form a useful opinion though.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you very much for suggestion but as much as I respect emacs and have always seen org-mode as something really really amazing out of the box, I still haven't decided to switch or start using emacs yet. There's a plugin in vim which replicates similar functionality but it still is not as good as emacs. I don't mean to say anyone editor is better, but for practical reasons I am not trying org-mode now.

I really appericiate your suggestions and will keep it in mind when I might give emacs a shot.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> If you want to self host, use a Tiddlywiki (the Node server). I advise starting by grabbing someone else's plugins. My setup is here: [https://lesser.occult.institute/an-opinionated-approach- to-t...](https://lesser.occult.institute/an-opinionated-approach-to- tiddlywiki)

If you like the convenience of not self hosting, Notion is good!

That said, you probably want your wiki and zettelkasten to be the same thing.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you so much for sharing your configuration!

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> since you mentioned Zettelkasten ,apart from Zettlr, if you are on mac, you can try this [https://zettelkasten.de/the- archive/](https://zettelkasten.de/the-archive/)

<comment><USER5> Try this as well [https://www.zotero.org/](https://www.zotero.org/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> take a look at fsnotes, it looks like it hits a sweet spot amongst many other apps, but it may be apple only, but uses plain text or markdown so I imagine easily flexible

</comment><comment><USER7> I'm using Zettlr. I'm liking it.</comment>


Ask HN: How do it explain Bitcoin to my dad? - <AUTHOR> Out of the blue, my dad called my yesterday to know more about bitcoins. I did my best but I am pretty sure I fell short of explaining it clearly. I used the standard buzz words: crypto-currency, mining, 21 M coins limit, asset vs currency, etc but fell far short of sustaining his interest after the first 2 mins of my monologue.<p>How should I explain like I would to a 10-year-old? <comment><USER2> It depends a lot on _why_ he wants to know, what he wants to do, and how much detail he's looking for.

Look, I did a search for you:

[https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bitcoin+eli5](https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bitcoin+eli5)

Since I have an irrational hatred of Reddit[0] I then followed it up with this:

[https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bitcoin+eli5+-reddit](https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bitcoin+eli5+-reddit)

This seems to be the best explanation.

[https://medium.freecodecamp.org/explain-bitcoin-like-im- five...](https://medium.freecodecamp.org/explain-bitcoin-like-im- five-73b4257ac833)

Here's another with a different slant:

[https://medium.com/@suchconor/eli5-how-does-bitcoin- work-29e...](https://medium.com/@suchconor/eli5-how-does-bitcoin- work-29eadc989369)

Hope that helps. Will you return and tell us how you got on?

</comment><comment>==

[0] It's irrational - don't try to understand it or convince me otherwise.

</comment><comment><USER3> "It's like Paypal"

</comment><comment><USER4> maybe this is easier [https://medium.com/@shiyan/bitcoin-in-comic- ded553a57dfb](https://medium.com/@shiyan/bitcoin-in-comic-ded553a57dfb)</comment>


Alma spots most distant dusty galaxy hidden in plain sight - <AUTHOR> https://www.nsf.gov/discoveries/disc_summ.jsp?cntn_id=299706&WT.mc_id=USNSF_1 <comment><AUTHOR> Thanks to ALMA's sensitivity, the team has now been able to determine the distance of this galaxy: MAMBO-9.

"We found the galaxy in a new ALMA survey specifically designed to identify dusty star-forming galaxies in the early Universe. And what is special about this observation, is that this is the most distant dusty galaxy we have ever seen in an unobstructed way," Dr. Casey said. [1]

[1] [http://www.sci-news.com/astronomy/mambo-9-merging-pair- dusty...](http://www.sci-news.com/astronomy/mambo-9-merging-pair-dusty-star- forming-galaxies-07898.html)</comment>