36C3 Staff Assaulted Me for Political Reasons - <AUTHOR> https://vc.gg/blog/36c3-staff-assaulted-me-for-political-reasons.html <comment><USER2> I'm the author of this post. What people who are unaware of the layout of the congress center don't realize is that the video starts when we were leaving. The door "inside" is actually to get "outside". I was told to leave in 5 minutes, I stayed where I was maybe 2 minutes and started walking (I'm not leaving anything out, it was just more of the first audio recording), and then was prevented from leaving the event by masked thugs who pretend to be real security guards on paper.

People assume I did something to deserve this, and I can live with that. But in reality it was nothing more than the list of domain names I own. I did my best to describe that here.

<comment><USER3> better context is this tweet: [https://twitter.com/_vecna/status/1211593823866019841](https://twitter.com/_vecna/status/1211593823866019841)

allowing somebody at CCC who hosts and profits from sites like hitler.rocks, nigger.rs, pro-rape and other hate-speech domains can't be tolerated.

edit: His twitter feed is racist drivel too. If you can please also report this account to twitter: [https://twitter.com/gexcolo](https://twitter.com/gexcolo)

<comment><USER4> And this is one situation where you can easily distinguish mature, liberal people from hateful radical anarchists. I know which side I am on, I detest political violence and those who condone it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Yeah, dude, posting a video of you getting kicked out primarily hints that you were being an idiot of some kind. Occam's razor, simplest explanation and whatnot. Feel free and try to elaborate / prove otherwise.

Also, FYI, CCC team has "Hausrecht" and if they tell you to leave you legally need to leave and they're well within rights to evict you.

<comment><USER6> IANAL, but you can't physically eject someone from a space in most civilized countries even if they're doing something wrong. Call the polizei/police.

There are exceptions for immediate threat to life, but you can't go wild and start kicking and punching someone for trespassing. That's assault and the video footage is possible evidence that could lead to charges.

I was a bouncer in a previous life, and there were very strict rules to follow after asking someone to leave.

<comment><USER7> yes, you can. Its called being a bouncer. I did it for 15 years. You don't kick and punch, and the video show quite clearly that the staff were simply trying to eject him.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Does anyone see the alleged political reason in the post? The only thing I seem to see is that he was asked not to come without a message or something, and now got kicked out.

Is that a political thing?

<comment><USER9> His email service, cock.li, has a very lax content policy, only disallowing spam, illegal content, or general abuse. This has attracted many ner-do-wells (in addition to the plenty of legitimate users like myself). Additionally, he offers addresses on domains such as: goat.si, cumallover.me, horsefucker.org, cocaine,ninja, nigge.rs, hitler.rocks, rape.lol, and nuke.africa. All of these are obviously intended to create offense, which, if his recollection of the events are accurate, is indeed what happened.

<comment><USER10> >Additionally, he offers addresses on domains such as: goat.si, cumallover.me, horsefucker.org, cocaine,ninja, nigge.rs, hitler.rocks, rape.lol, and nuke.africa. All of these are obviously intended to create offense,

One of these are not like the others. Who gets offended at cocaine.ninja?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> whatever your stance is on politics, Violence is always the wrong way to resolve verbal conflicts.

<comment><USER12> I don't know any of the people involved in whatever happened. But this statement is simply not true.

You should not tolerate intolerance. "If a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant".

Some people can and will abuse the "you can't use violence against me under any circumstance" rule you just mentioned to do very bad things.

<comment><USER13> I would argue that resorting to physical violence to resolve verbal conflicts is quite high on the scale of intolerable things.

> You should not tolerate intolerance. "If a society is tolerant without > limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the > intolerant".

I have issues with this absolutism. What is "intolerance" or not is dependant of culture and context. Such a thin line that can be so easily moved, and you end up with the moral equivalent of "3 felonies a day". Then before you know it, you get fired because someone deemed that using 'they' indiscriminately is a form of intolerance.

<comment><USER12> I would argue that this line is not thin at all, you are just mixing things.

There is a huge gradient between "using 'they' indiscriminately" and "I believe killing all jews is the way to go".

The point is not "do not tolerate ANY FORM of intolerance", just that tolerance should have clear limits.

<comment><USER14> > There is a huge gradient between "using 'they' indiscriminately" and "I > believe killing all jews is the way to go".

The problem is that the gradient between those is smooth, and there's no obvious Schelling Points to stop at.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> There's video evidence at the bottom. I casually follow CCC but am not familiar with all the sub-groups /clicks, so was a bit hard to follow. I Hope those who did the assaulting are held responsible and banned

<comment><USER16> That video shows that... they evicted some dude that seems to make his personal brand about being edgy and annoying? What exactly am I supposed to be outraged about here?

<comment><USER17> Hard to see a "brutal attack" from the video (although it is unclear). More a fairly typical forced ejection scuffle.

I'd like to know more before forming any view. The poster offers email on domains including one named rape.lol so is obviously a charming fellow.

<comment><USER18> Agreed. Seems like one of those "free speech advocates" that enjoys being as offensive as possible and then howls if anyone tries to take their content down.

The video is definitely not a "brutal assault". If the video is bad or incomplete, after pictures of injuries would easily prove his point.

Attention-seeking behavior.

<comment><USER19> > Agreed. Seems like one of those "free speech advocates" that enjoys being as > offensive as possible and then howls if anyone tries to take their content > down.

In Germany, "free speech" is not so deeply culturally ingrained: in the German Grundgesetz, paragraph 5, there is a concept of "Meinungsfreiheit" (freedom of opinion) ([https://www.gesetze-im- internet.de/gg/art_5.html](https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gg/art_5.html)) which, even though "sufficient for most practical purposes", does not go as far as "free speech" in the USA.

<comment><USER20> You can get convicted a very harsh sentence for using just a single word, and don't you citizen dare to use "hate speech!". There is no Meinungsfreiheit in Europe/Germany, it exists only on paper

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> These events that are identified, are they a local thing in the author's area? Like BSides to Americans, etc.?

<comment><USER16> The congress is a yearly multi-day conference organized at the end of each year by the CCC [0] "Europe's largest association of hackers". Not sure how attendance at bsides style conferences is but I'd figure it's more like Black Hat, somewhere around the 17/18k mark for the last year iirc.

[0] [https://www.ccc.de/en/home](https://www.ccc.de/en/home)

edit: ah yes, DEFCON, thanks. I always get those two mixed up.

<comment><USER22> > but I'd figure it's more like Black Hat

More like DEFCON than Blackhat. Blackhat is a "corporate" conference and expensive to attend, DEFCON and CCC are more community driven and thus affordable.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> For those who are clueless: This happened in Germany.</comment>


Sydney StartupCamp (Oct 8-10) - <AUTHOR> http://sydneystartupcamp.eventbrite.com/

<comment><USER2> Has anyone here been to this in the past? If so, how did you find it and is it worth going to?

<comment><AUTHOR> Negative. However I am going this year and will be very interested to hear someone answer the parent.</comment></comment>


Show HN: An Omegle CLI interface - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/nmaggioni/NodeOmegle <comment><AUTHOR> I spent some time fiddling around with web requests in Node.JS, playing with the endpoints of an online webchat named "Omegle" ([http://www.omegle.com/](http://www.omegle.com/)) that connects you to a random stranger.

In the end a nice little gadget came out! A proper README is on it's way, even if the help screen included in the script is quite exhaustive.</comment>


Ask HN: How do you manage on-prem deployments? - <AUTHOR> I've recently started a little home-lab with a few refurbished dell rack servers, and wanted to ask about other peoples experiences with managing software deployments. Each server runs Debian, and I want to be able to automatically deploy & run new code in a clean, easy to manage way. Ideally, each server would run identical software.
A few ideas I had:
- https://equinox.io is a good option - $29/mo for automatic release channels, deployments, etc.
- Periodic clone from GitHub is another solution here - every x minutes, clone, build and replace if needed. This option works great, but can lead to some annoyances.
- I'd guess the simplest way is to write a small script which copies the binaries over to all the machines, then restarts the servers. This is fine I guess...?
Has anyone else worked on something similar? How did you / do you automatically update the binaries running on your on-prem servers? <comment><USER2> Same way it's done in the cloud. Immutable infra via virtual machine images.

vSphere is the fabric that connects everything, packer builds the machine images, tf/govc deploys.

To be honest though these days it's more for standing up K8S clusters, workloads are managed via kube manifests and less directly on the vm level.

<comment><AUTHOR> I've never been a huge fan of K8s - whenever I've used it in the past, it's always made my deployments harder just because of all the overhead from K8s itself. Perhaps in a micro-service architecture spread across a large cluster it would be great, but probably a little overkill for something like this where I need to auto deploy a single binary onto multiple machines.

That being said, K8s is definitely an amazing technology, and I will continue to follow it and other similar initiatives. Some of Kelsey Hightower's talks with K8s are really well done and do a great job showcasing its potential!

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> > I'd guess the simplest way is to write a small script which copies the > binaries over to all the machines

I do roughly this. custom application is rigged to run as a service on debian , managed by systemd. I.e. path of least resistance, app is run in idiomatic way by the operating system. I have an ansible script to copy over a new version, ensure all dependencies are installed using apt, run admin tasks to update anything that needs updating in database, then restart the service to pick up the new version of application code. It is a bit sloppy & doesn't automate everything but does automate the common path for upgrading an application code change to an existing deployment.

</comment><comment><USER4> Well, Ansible is the kind of software which does exactly that and has been created to address this issue from the start. It's an industry standard. You define how your environment should be configured in a declarative way, and Ansible connects via SSH to your machines and does the job for you; might work like cron does - running periodic tasks. Surely a very useful tool for everyone who has anything to do with bare-metal machines.

You can always go with the Bash / Python scripts, but hey, Ansible is really cool! I'd give it a try even for small things. I use it to get in touch with my home RaspberryPi cluster.

The above doesn't make you free from knowing how your operating systems work, BTW! That's a must.

Have fun!

<comment><USER4> Plus some of what you have mentioned, @OP, craves to be packed into Docker containers!

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I'd recommend you learn to use Debian's ecosystem for packaging and distribution. We build binary packages out of our source tree using dpkg- buildpackage and run our own organization of apt repositories managed by aptly. We control all of our own signing/key infrastructure and install that on machines just like the rest of the OS.

<comment><USER6> We work in a similar fashion. I find the art of creating a debian package from scratch tedious though.

<comment><AUTHOR> Are there any resources you've used in the past to do this? I'm curious what the process is to making / distributing via apt. I've always been a fan of the services which can be installed with a single apt-get, which also automatically setup the systemd service. That's a super awesome combo.

<comment><USER6> We have a Jenkins job that builds our code from github, runs the tests, builds the package and then uploads that to our private JFrog repo. Then we have another job that builds VM images (GCP) by installing the package from JFrog and all its dependencies. One final job starts the rolling upgrade of live machines.

The hardest part is getting all the debian/* files right. Recently, I tried to convert a 3rd party tar.gz into a .deb but failed. The documentation isn't great. I think someone on our team mentioned using fpm, but I've not tried it personally.

I think our command is just 'dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc $@', but like I said, prepping all the required files for that to just work isn't my area of expertise.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Show HN:  What Do You Think Of My Resume? - <AUTHOR> http://on.fb.me/foaQCC <comment><USER2> I was initially curious, thanks to the novelty, but that quickly wore off. There's a cost involved in parsing the chalkboard text that doesn't exist when you're reading computer-generated text. A lot of clicks, too.

At the same time, it's less dull than a standard Word resume template, or something, so maybe you're on the right track.

My suggestion: Tell a more compelling story. You're rattling off a bunch of historical points, which, fine, that's how resumes work, but as long as you're breaking the mold, break the hell out of it. Start with a hook. Start by saying something so wildly compelling I _cannot stop clicking_ until my curiosity is satisfied. Prove your worth by grabbing attention.

<comment><USER3> Telling a more compelling story is definitely a big part of it and another thing to consider is doing something simlar, but not on Facebook. If you can control the surroundings and the interaction mechanism, you can create a much better experience (hopefully with fewer clicks/hopping around).

Being unique and visual is a good way to get "noticed", but you have to weigh that very carefully against being overly taxing on the reader. In this case, the amount of increased interest is not worth the effort it takes to get through it.

Lose Facebook, tell a story, and make me care.

<comment><USER4> I like the Facebook spin because it hints at what they want to see-- social media savvy.

</comment></comment></comment><comment> T-hawk What the naysayers are missing is that it probably IS a good way to get hired. Yes, he's going to get dismissed by a sizable chunk of resume readers for all the reasons listed: no Facebook account, doesn't fit into HR's straitjacketed process, harder to mentally parse the handwritten low-contrast text, the focus on presentation buries the content, or just plain crackpot. But he needs to connect and stand out sufficiently to just _one_ hiring manager to be a success.

He may have lowered his _mean_ perception among readers of the resume, but he blew the _variance_ through the roof. And that's what you need to be picked as the one best candidate for a job hire. Your mean perception has no relevance when you need to be 3 standard deviations above the population mean to get your desired result of being the top 1 out of 300 candidates.

</comment><comment><USER5> i cannot read it. apparently you need a facebook account to see it.

<comment><USER6> I have to log in to some arbitrary thing to know who you are. Why?

<comment><USER7> Perhaps they believe that FaceBook is the Internet? Many people actually think that. I recall the days when Grandma swore that AOL _was_ the Internet. Facebook has displaced them.

<comment><USER6> If that's the thinking, I've seen enough of his resume.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Not sure about the resume, but you should probably put a shirt on in your profile pic if you want to be taken seriously. [http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak- snc4/161257_6809274_...](http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak- snc4/161257_6809274_4546562_n.jpg)

<comment><USER9> And the new one isn't much better: [http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak- snc4/187533_6809274_...](http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak- snc4/187533_6809274_7991877_n.jpg)

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Ignore the haters, this is great. Obviously it won't resonate with everyone, but you're still going to do way better with this than with a traditional resume.

<comment><USER11> In fact, he already has. His resume is on the front page of Hacker News

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> I am much more impressed by the contents than the presentational aspect. It buries the lede that you're a social marketer who _empirically, repeatably gets measurable results_.

<comment><USER13> Yes, please share your secrets!

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> I love how so many people feel the need to point out that they are too cool for Facebook.

I rank that up there with people who love to point out at every possible opportunity that they don't own a TV. Congratulations, here's a cookie.

To Mr. Kleinman: awesome idea :)

<comment><USER15> Because the only reason not to have a Facebook account is because you're too cool for it.

<comment><USER16> Cannot you see the difference between not having Facebook account for whatever reason, and bragging about not having Facebook account?

<comment><USER15> Can't you see the difference between answering the question "What Do You Think Of My Resume?" and bragging about not having a Facebook account? I didn't see much of the latter in these comments.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I'm a a bit curious about "Apple's TextPlus" I don't think Apple has an app called TextPlus.

<comment><USER18> I agree, I found that a bit misleading. I would reshoot that slide with different wording (unless Apple does indeed have some product called TextPlus, then go with it!)

<comment><USER19> I third this. The way you have that slide written is misleading, and frankly, lame. You don't need to make it appear like you "worked at/for Apple" and that is the way it is written. Reshoot that slide.

Otherwise, I like the FB resume deal, this one time. If I ever see anyone else do this, that is a different story.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Thanks for sharing a link only Facebook users can access. In the pure hacker spirit: open, transparent access for anyone.

</comment><comment><USER21> This is a powerpoint presentation written in chalk. No thanks.

<comment><USER22> Yes, but do your presentations have a guy smiling and winking in them?

I thought so.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> What strikes me about this is the positions he is looking at would be great with a creative thinker on board. And this shows his creativity.

It might not be as efficient as some of the other ads for being hired but it does the deal in being interesting and catching your attention. In the end, does anything else matter?

</comment><comment><USER24> You should really run funnel analysis to see how many people loose interest at each successive screen.

</comment><comment><USER25> I like what danilocomaps said. I would also add, put your e-mail address and phone number at the bottom of every chalkboard. No sense alienating someone who likes it but is too busy to get to the end.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the tip. I will throw it in the comments.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> My only concern is that some of your friends have commented on the pictures, and it kinda detracts from it. (example: second picture, comment at 9:30 am) What if someone were to say something negative?

<comment><USER27> Isn't that good though? He's not projecting some type of censored/ideal version of himself like what you would normally get from a resume.

<comment><USER18> Sure he is (though not intentionally, I'd bet). Although logged in, I could not comment on his photos, and I doubt he's connected with people on Facebook that are going to actively criticize him in the comments. So, they'll tend to be more positive than not.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> I don't find the facebook login page a terribly compelling resume.

</comment><comment><USER29> The naysayers below aren't part of your target audience. As someone who is, I think it's brilliant.

</comment><comment><USER30> This method displays personality too often lacking in standard text-based CVs, so I like the idea of breaking the mold, but also agree with comments about not taking the idea far enough.

Facebook just recently changed the way Facebook pages operate, and you can now embed a media within an iframe. <http://developers.facebook.com/blog/post/462>

I say keep FB (because, as you say, people will be checking for it) but throw in an intro video and some links to a CV and past work, and you'll be able to make the experience that much richer.

</comment><comment><USER31> This is a brilliant idea. I wish I thought of it first. Its creative and gets the point across perfectly. Resumes need to be more creative and this is an amazing start!

<comment><USER15> > I wish I thought of it first.

> created: 2 hours ago

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> It utilizes social media and is interactive, while still providing core information to the reader. It definitely catches my attention.

<comment><USER33> Account created 10 hours ago, no other comments or submissions.

So far, that makes two completely new accounts (Leopeptards, Halos04) commenting here to say how good this resume is, plus one instance of someone "else" answering for KleinmanB (shakeshake, see elsewhere in the discussion) ... and the somebody-else in question, with whom KleinmanB "occasionally shares" a laptop, just happens to have submitted a link to the same resume with the title "The Most Creative Resume I Have Seen In A Long Time".

If anyone with HN superpowers is reading this, they might want to take appropriate action. Unfortunately, all that's in my power is to flag it and express my hope that anyone reading KleinmanB's resume stumbles across this discussion and considers carefully whether they should trust someone who engages in such sockpuppetry.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> This is wonderful, but I would have used less words on the chalkboard as danilocampos points out.

Nice and creative though.

</comment><comment><USER35> For a certain type of job; this would be good (but definitely supplement it with a real resume!!)

For most jobs it is useless.

For a certain other type of job it is an instant turn off.

With that said; marketing is one of the only areas I actively advise people to be creative with their CV's because it can pay off. So good idea.

</comment><comment><USER36> Not to be nit-picky, but do you really mean 0.03 cents, or 0.03 dollars on the Slingshot Labs slide?

<comment><USER37> 3 cents would be $7500 for 250,000 people. That seems like a lot to pay for getting visitors to a free site, so I'm guessing he really did mean .03 cents, or .0003 dollars.

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> Clever, but maybe perhaps too clever for people who don't have that much time to look through all those photos right away.

Add a link as a caption for all of those photos to a nicely formatted resume created with LaTeX or something similar and you've got the best of both worlds.

</comment><comment><USER39> well done. This definitely wouldn't work for most people, but it is a creative way to sell yourself as a social media guru, and I think potential employers will respond to that.

</comment><comment><USER40> I like it. Visually interesting. It also helps that you know how to write a resume (use numbers, focus on results) and that you have some real accomplishments to talk about.

</comment><comment><USER41> Nice.

Brilliant way to use Facebook to filter off people you don't want to work for. If they don't have a Facebook account, you probably wouldn't be happy working for them

</comment><comment><USER42> Great job! But I just would have gotten someone with better handwriting to do the board. Also, change that profile picture!

</comment><comment><USER43> I that resume is perfect for applying to Blackboard :) On a side note, I'd forgotten they even still make blackboards.

</comment><comment><USER44> I, for one, believe your resume has worked out quite well for you considering the publicity on HN.

</comment><comment><USER45> Nice, creative. But, Imagineer as an intern for writing a document? I don't think so.

</comment><comment><USER46> I like it. A lot. We actually need someone like this. You should email me.

</comment><comment><USER47> Very creative Bro, if you were a developer/coder you would have gotten lots of offeres for being creative, business/marketing guys do not have much credibility especially in this community, good luck!

</comment><comment><USER48> A M A Z I N G. I was really impressed :).

</comment><comment><USER49> Why is your Facebook profile private?

</comment><comment><USER50> I can't see your resume because it's on facebook.

</comment><comment><USER51> Very impressive credentials, well put together. I think it helps to see your smiling face, in a subconscious level. I have to ask, how did you get from 0 to 250,000 unique monthly visitors per month for linfo?

<comment><AUTHOR> email me and I can talk about it

<comment><USER2> Is "shakeshake" a sockpuppet?

(For context: The above comment was originally authored by "shakeshake",

<http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=shakeshake> )

This, uh, wouldn't happen to be the secret to your social media success, would it?

<comment><AUTHOR> negatory, I share a laptop occasionally and there were different names logged into Firefox v Chrome.

Also HN killed the link the first time.

<comment><USER15> One of which just happened to be created yesterday and has done nothing since? Happens to me all the time...</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Do We Need a New IP? - <AUTHOR> https://labs.ripe.net/Members/marco_hogewoning/do-we-need-a-new-ip <comment><USER2> It's being presented by Huawei.

I'm sure their main problem with the Internet is that it's too hard for the Chinese government to listen to everybody's conversations.

</comment><comment><USER3> The last thing the internet needs is censorship baked in to the protocol

<comment><USER4> yes, it's a cool idea but I wouldn't want something like this from Huawei.</comment></comment>


VC Investment in Internet Deals Did Not Fall Off A Cliff - <AUTHOR> http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/vc_investment_in_internet_deals_did_not_fall_off_cliff.php

<comment><USER2> On the front page of HN right now, TechCrunch has a post titled, "Venture Capital Down 50%. It's Not Just the Recession, Folks."

<comment><USER3> Yes and there's a line in that TC article that goes "VC funding has fallen off a cliff."

This article is in response to that one. And a good one at that.

<comment><USER4> Eh. The data is the same in both articles. They just disagree over the definition of "cliff".

No matter who you ask, a 50% drop in investment is bad news.</comment></comment></comment>


Good And Bad Reasons For Believing (Dawkins letter to his daughter) - <AUTHOR> http://members.fortunecity.com/templarser/dawkins2.html

<comment><USER2> _People who believe even slightly different things from each other go to war over their disagreements._

This is flawed reasoning, while men go to war over religion, they go to war over an assortment of dogma. If religion where eliminated tomorrow, a new dogma would take it's place and the killing started all over again.

I know it is flawed because I was guilty of it. I despised religion for war, but after deep reflection I realized that what I truly despised was human nature. This is hard for an atheist to admit because all their faith is put into humanity. To place the flaw at humanities feet is to admit faith in a flawed pillar.

Blaming religion for war and death is akin to blaming cars (with drunk drivers in them) for death. They are merely a vessel for the actions of humans. How humans use them is a reflection of that humans nature and without religion they would find another outlet for those desires. By blaming religion one is giving credit to the concept of god, for the atrocities instead of just seeing it as a bunch of dumb ass upright primates doing what humans do.

Anything else is holding out false hope that we are more virtuous than that. It is a common falsely held belief by the more intelligent of our species, due to the fact that we reason from our own perspective, those of us with higher reasoning like to hold out hope that the less intelligent will come around, when the reality is their are portions of our species that are only slightly less primal than apes. In some ways more.

The more intelligent project their understanding and their capacities onto the less and are always disappointed when they lack the capacity. This usually turns to blaming some dogma rather than blaming humanity.

I am constantly amazed when I watch the news at the primal nature of much of our fellow humanity, holding out hope of an mass awakening of that portion of humanity is fanciful at best. They lack the capacity to understand the nature of their primal ways. But to blame religion for that nature is to a cop-out at best and delusional.

</comment><comment><USER3> Seems off-topic for HN

</comment><comment><USER4> the funny thing is, this doesn't sound more or less patronizing than anything else that comes out of richard dawkins</comment>


SpaceX takes 40 live mice and beer brewing to ISS - <AUTHOR> https://www.wired.com/story/spacex-will-bring-the-science-of-fire-and-beer-to-the-iss <comment><AUTHOR> Live stream: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfPoUROLw3M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfPoUROLw3M)</comment>


Tarrare - <AUTHOR> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarrare <comment><USER5> Sam O'nella has a great video on him: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYHDj2sB- rc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYHDj2sB-rc)

</comment><comment><USER6> "After being suspected of eating a toddler he was ejected from the hospital." The article is unclear on whether they found the missing tyke.

<comment><USER7> Aw, it was the 18th century: they lost kids all the time.

<comment><USER8> Redundant Array of Inexpensive Descendants

<comment><USER9> _Redundant Array of Inexpensive Descendants_

Here's my evolutionary "Just So Story" for why human kids like to wander away and put things into their mouths. Basically, they acted as food tasters for the group. Makes sense, since the group has invested in them the least, they know nothing important, and in a state of nature, they're likely to die anyways.

<comment><USER10> I suspect eating insects also provided meaningful additional nutrition for toddlers.

<comment><USER11> Not to mention developing the immune system.

They always go for the dirtiest thing in the room. Acquire and share.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I instantly thought of ShoeNice ..that guy with a YouTube channel that eats random stuff

[https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCyuCA6viLm6zsL6LNq67Tjg](https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCyuCA6viLm6zsL6LNq67Tjg)

Be warned, though.. it can be a little disturbing

<comment><USER13> You should look up the LA beast.

<comment><USER14> competitive eaters have nothing on shoe

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> "The fork was never found."

<comment><USER16> Was just going to note that it's a very poetic ending indeed.

On a more serious note, here is a similar case I found on the talk page: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Domery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Domery)

<comment><USER17> And they're contemporaries.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> All that and no mention of food poisoning despite eating offal from the gutters and dung heaps. I wonder if his super-charged metabolism made for a super-charged immune system or it's something we can all get used to?

<comment><USER19> I was wondering about that too.

Seems he still vomited indigestible things (when they gave him the live cat). The autopsy revealed an inner body full of ulcers and pus. Maybe his metabolism was so high, he was burning a lot of it out.

<comment><USER18> Yes it did mention he had a higher than normal body heat, maybe he had a constant mild fever burning the bugs to death.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> A real life shonen manga protagonist.

</comment><comment><USER21> Some friends of mine [0] actually made a puppet opera based on this chap - <USER2> a blast it was too.

[0] [https://www.theguardian.com/stage/video/2017/jan/26/watch-a-...](https://www.theguardian.com/stage/video/2017/jan/26/watch- a-clip-from-the-depraved-appetite-of-tarrare-the-freak-video)

</comment><comment><USER22> Sounds like he had an extremely high resting metabolic rate. Any similar modern medical examples?

<comment><USER23> I'm not sure he was absorbing so many calories from those meals. It sounds more like he had an extremely overactive digestive tract and just couldn't keep anything inside long enough to digest. Think of it more as a permanent case of explosive diarrhea.

His use as a courier suggests that material was going through his digestive tract mostly intact.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> Reminds me of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erysichthon_of_Thessaly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erysichthon_of_Thessaly)

</comment><comment><USER25> very interesting medical case history. i assume that the guy had a metabolic disorder of some kind, although a unique gut microbiome might have been at play too.

<comment><USER26> Or tapeworms, although that would be pretty obvious in his stool, even in the 19th century.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> What a rollercoaster. Can't believe what I just read.

<comment><USER28> I wonder how much of this was borderline normal at the time

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> I thoroughly encourage everyone to learn more about Tarrare on the This Paranormal Life podcast!

[https://soundcloud.com/thisparanormallife/044-tarrare-the- ma...](https://soundcloud.com/thisparanormallife/044-tarrare-the-man-who-ate- everything)

</comment><comment><USER30> Just a theory (not a doctor), a damaged pancreas could cause insufficient insulin, which would cause food energy not to be absorbed (although I don't think it explains the other symptoms)

<comment><USER31> > At the autopsy, Tarrare's gullet was found to be abnormally wide and when > his jaws were opened, surgeons could see down a broad canal into the > stomach. His body was found to be filled with pus, his liver and gallbladder > were abnormally large, and his stomach was enormous, covered in ulcers and > filling most of his abdominal cavity.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> Seems he had trouble absorbing calories from what he ate somehow.

<comment><USER33> That was my first thought, but this line:

>His body was hot to the touch and he sweated heavily, he constantly had foul body odour [...]

suggests an fantastically high baseline metabolism.

<comment><USER34> Makes me think of DNP, a substance which acts to dissipate the protein gradient in our mitochondria, wasting the energy that the mitochondrion would otherwise use to make ATP. The wasted energy is turned into heat, giving its users an elevated body temperature and characteristic sweating. It'd be the perfect dieting aid were it not so toxic.

There are proteins in the human body having the same effect, performing some minor functions. Maybe he had a mutation making those proteins very prevalent, essentially making his metabolism very wasteful. Although I don't know if such a sustained fever wouldn't be deadly.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,4-Dinitrophenol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,4-Dinitrophenol) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncoupling_protein](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncoupling_protein)

<comment><USER35> DNP has a particularly vile reputation in the fitness community, yet many still use it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> Whenever I read articles about things that happened hundreds of years ago, I always think that most of it was made up along the way, so I take it with a boulder of salt.

Does anyone know how accurate these sorts of records are?

<comment><USER37> This thing reads more like a campfire story. I also wonder how much of this is real and how much is the inevitable embellishment added over the past more than 2 centuries.

The funny explanation. [0] [1]

[0] [https://xkcd.com/1235/](https://xkcd.com/1235/)

[1] [https://imgur.com/gallery/akeVeiq](https://imgur.com/gallery/akeVeiq)

<comment><USER36> Exactly, most of these claims read like fanciful fabrications of people wanting to tell a good story.

Eating his body weight in a day? That's pretty outlandish and easily debunked.

<comment><USER38> >Eating his body weight in a day? That's pretty outlandish and easily debunked.

no. I don't understand what you're basing your claim on. As far as i see it is easily possible. Even with anatomically normal gut some stuff can make from mouth to the other end in as short as 30 minutes. So the bandwidth is there (say it takes 1 hour to make through the 7m length of the gut pipe which say of 4 square centimeter section - that is 2.8 liter/hour speed) . The story of that guy says that he had severe diarrhea and overall really suggests that he had severe gut bacterial issues - that is one of the situations when stuff makes it very quickly through the gut.

He is described as of a small weight despite significant food intake - <USER3> again matches the situation of the food quickly passing through instead of thorough digestion. He is described as constantly scavenging and eating - <USER4> 15 hours a day 4 kg/hour (in the ballpark of the above mentioned 2.8l/hour) gives you 60kg. 4kg/hour quickly moving non-stop though the gut does sound like a severe diarrhea.

<comment><USER39> I don't think I've ever heard bandwidth used in this context.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> good luck falling asleep tonight everyone</comment>


Grail, a web browser written in Python (1996) - <AUTHOR> http://grail.sourceforge.net/info/papers/restofus.html <comment><AUTHOR> Some extra links.

Wikipedia: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grail_%28web_browser%29](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grail_%28web_browser%29)

Code on Github: [https://github.com/mdoege/grailbrowser](https://github.com/mdoege/grailbrowser)

CNRI on Wikipedia: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_for_National_Resea...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_for_National_Research_Initiatives)

CNRI about page: [http://www.cnri.reston.va.us/about_cnri.html](http://www.cnri.reston.va.us/about_cnri.html)

<comment><USER2> Trail, a recently enhanced version: [https://github.com/mdoege/Trail](https://github.com/mdoege/Trail)

<comment><AUTHOR> Didn't notice that in my search, thanks!</comment></comment></comment>


Human Connectome Project - <AUTHOR> http://www.humanconnectomeproject.org/ <comment><USER2> The key bottleneck with all connectome projects is still reconstruction. There's on the order of a hundred billion neurones in the human brain; they're connected via 1,000-10,000 times the number of synapses. Current machine learning approaches are decent, but still require massive amounts of proof- reading.

Circuit neuroscience in _Drosophila_ or the mammalian retina suggests neurones and synapses are indeed the level of detail we'll need in order to gain insight into computational mechanisms. So we're a long, long way off -- don't be too impressed by this particular dataset (which is _insanely_ coarse!).

<comment><USER3> Hey if you guys want to help out with the proof reading effort, we've got a cool dataset that has a resolution of 16.5 nm x 16.5 nm x 23 nm at [http://eyewire.org](http://eyewire.org) ^_^

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> This project and particular site have been around, largely unchanged, for many years.

The WU-Minn side of the project is seemingly more active, and their dataset is much, much easier to obtain: [http://humanconnectome.org/data/](http://humanconnectome.org/data/). Their scripts for processing the data are up on github at [https://github.com/Washington- University/Pipelines](https://github.com/Washington-University/Pipelines).

</comment><comment><USER5> What level of detail is available from this data?

<comment><USER6> The resolution is some of the best in the business, so to speak, but the biological interpretation of all MRI-derived metrics are still hotly debated. So the true level is detail is sort of dependent on something we don't know yet.

<comment><USER5> Hmm, is there something like this where they just slice a brain directly rather than using low resolution MRIs?

Edit: oh here's one [http://io9.com/see-the-first-ultra-high- resolution-3d-scan-o...](http://io9.com/see-the-first-ultra-high- resolution-3d-scan-of-the-ent-514395280)

<comment><USER6> Yes, but this does not include any functional data, arguably a huge contribution of the HCP project. The history of neuroscience has taught us that you can only look so far by looking at anatomy alone!</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Use Vue.js with Pure Python - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/stefanhoelzl/vue.py <comment><USER2> I'm looking at this project page with a blank stare. Anyone care to explain why would someone want to do this thing ?

I usually never ask this question, because i often understand developers do things just for the challenge or for fun, but in this case i must say i'm puzzled. I don't even understand what the challenge is since "running python in a browser" is accomplished by a different project.

<comment><USER3> why not? the challenge was to run vue.js using python in a browser. If you, and it seems like you did, accept "running python in a browser" as a challenge, this can easily be another similar challenge. Not the project owner btw.</comment></comment>


Why Does Apple Offer Free Engraving? - <AUTHOR> http://elidourado.com/blog/free-engraving/ <comment><USER2> I thought the main reason was obvious: it's only available if you buy from Apple directly, not from, say, Amazon. Apple makes more money when you buy from their store instead of a third party.

<comment><USER3> I think another point is, that the most people wont buy a used engraved ipod. Maybe they prefer a new one instead a used one.

<comment><USER4> Did you read the article? That was the entire point.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> There's another benefit to Apple as well: engraved products aren't returnable.

<comment><USER6> I've seen this stated a few times previously, but never seen any evidence to back it up. I'm pretty sure that'd be against the law in most countries; if a product's defective consumer laws (almost) everywhere mandate it be replaced

As for someone changing their mind, do you really think that's Apple's motivation behind offering engraving?. I'd guess less than 1% of iPods are sold engraved, and of these the unwanted rate would be in single digits, probably again close to 1%, so (with those assumptions) we're looking at about 1 in 10,000 units.

Instead, I'd put forward that Apple offer engraving for some other reason, and the anti-return policy is simply a byproduct of that, not the driving force; an engraved iPod can't be restocked and would be cost prohibitive to refurbish

<comment><USER7> In Germany, mail-order companies are required by law to offer 14 days money- back service. There are exceptions for among others, perishable goods and custom-made goods.

The mandatory six-month warranty for defects, however, is independent from the money-back guarantee.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> >Apple has a monopoly on iP*ds ... the durable-goods monopolist, Apple. ... durable goods monopolists

Further evidence that "monopoly" has no useful meaning. At best it allows a speaker to hang negative emotion onto a subject, and at worst, agitate for government coercion against the subject.

<comment><USER9> Apple does have a monopoly on devices that use the iPod connector. This monopoly is enforced by patent 7632114 B2.

That being said, the term monopoly doesn't mean much on its own. There is an alternative to everything.

<comment><USER8> The author's misuse is all the more painful for being an econ grad student at my alma mater, GMU. A former professor of mine, Russ Roberts (the man behind the Hayek vs. Keynes Rap video), even used a similar example ("Does Ford have a monopoly over the Taurus? Cars? Means of transportation?") to show how little objective utility the term "monopoly" holds. The more narrowly one defines the market, the more one is likely to "discover" monopolies.

<comment><USER10> Don't forget though, Russ Roberts has an ideological dog in this hunt, and he'd like to recruit more anti-regulation followers, so he'll bend the argument to suit his biases. There is a sorities paradox element to it, but that doesn't mean "pile" is undefined; Ford has a government-granted monopoly - a trademark - on Taurus.

That substitutability is defined in a distributed way isn't a well-formed argument against tying it down in any particular case. Legal courts make these determinations every day concerning the meanings of texts, whose intent can be similarly hard to divine.

<comment><USER11> We should all have a legal monopoly on who we are. Protection from others pretending to be us. That's all a trademark is. Its not at all like a government granted monopoly that enables a company to be the sole provider of phone or automobiles.

<comment><USER12> Which we generally call a patent - in my understaning the only real monopolies are government granted ones - i.e you must use ATT for phones, or no one else can manufacture widget X

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Cynicism aside, it also turns them into phenomenal, personalized gifts.

<comment><USER14> Surely any engraving might detract from the Apple logo, thus reducing the phenominality, fabulosity, etc

By the way, I crave downvotes from humourless Apple devotees.

<comment><USER15> Normal people don't care about the Apple logo, and the vast majority of Apple's customers are _normal_ people — not fanbois.

The engraving makes the gift special, intimate and remarkable.

<comment><USER16> Normal people crave logos. Not just fanbois. They also like to personalise their stuff though.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Could work both ways. If someone receives an iPod with personalized engraving they would possibly be more likely to hold onto the device longer since the object now has some sentimental value. For re-sale the engraved models sell at a lower price which makes the second hard market more attractive to thrifty buyers. I suspect xenophanes is right -- Apple wants people to buy iPods directly from them instead of other resellers who might put competing products side-by-side.

<comment><USER18> >>If someone receives an iPod with personalized engraving they would possibly be more likely to hold onto the device longer since the object now has some sentimental value.

You're right - I still hold on to my old engraved iPod because it was a gift. It's not something I'd want to dispose of, even though it looks terribly out of fashion now (what with new models of iPods releasing every year).

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Does anyone have any sales statistics comparing volume of iPods purchased from apple.com to volume of iPods purchased at retail (including Apple retail stores since they don't offer engraving?)

Because even if what he is saying is true I doubt that the fraction of people that get engraved iPods and then resell can influence the secondary market filled with iPods from almost all technology retailers and Apple's retail stores themselves.

</comment><comment><USER20> It's an interesting point that some personalized gifts are less resellable. Books with the owners name stamped in it have to be sold used with a note there is a marking and it is not "like new". But the same book as a first edition with a dedication signed by the long dead author and dedicated to a US president is worth a lot. So it depends.

This said, I object greatly to the article's outlandish posturing that he knows WHY Apple offers free engraving and it is for the cynical reason he stated - to subvert the customer's future gift giving activities. He knows no such thing and to claim he does know goes is simple BS. Article pointing out interesting effect of personalization, that's a great article. Article pulling out one of many effects of a business decision and claiming that was the primary, or even a considered reason for making the decision, that's totally bogus.

As many others have pointed out here and in that article's comments, there are many business reasons and advantages to offering free engraving. One good one is increasing its perception as a luxury good. Many high end jewelers offer free engraving with a Rolex purchase.

Or how about to help the customer protect his property from thieves? I could note that products that are engraved are probably less likely to be stolen, and then claim that that's the reason WHY Apple offers the service with the purchase - they want to help customers.

Or how about so many people buy iPods that its now a common occurrence for people to mix up their iPods with those of their friends. Engraving helps the customer avoid such mixups. I often get out the dremel tool and put my name on things so they don't get mixed up. Dremel scratches look terrible though and mars the finish. It would ruin the appearance of an iPod. Perhaps Apple noticed customers doing this, and to maintain artistic standards of appearance even after the sale, started throwing it in.

These reasons, as examples only, are not any less likely a sole explanation than the more cynical one, especially with Apple's history of focusing on customer total experience and reducing trouble and increasing happiness for the customers, with even details such as styrofoam packaging being carefully designed by specialized artists.

On the issue of engraving being free or no cost, that is not correct. Apple is not offering engraving service on things you have NOT bought from them, such as Zunes or watches. The cost of engraving is included with the purchase price, which is premium priced. Not everyone uses it though.

Now there's a thought. When you buy your iPod at WalMart or Target you don't get engraving do you, yet you pay the exact same price or maybe $5 less as you would from store.apple.com. WalMart and Target though take around 33% of the selling price as profit. So there's where the engraving can be paid from - every order from the Apple Store means more profit for Apple. Engraving is an incentive to buy direct from Apple at full list price rather than from a reseller.

<comment><USER21> Are you sure about the supposition that retailers make 1/3 profit? I'm not so sure. Game consoles, for instance, are usually sold for only a few dollars of markup and the retailers depend on things like sales of games, controllers, and other accessories to make selling the actual console worthwhile.

I assume that an iPod is less this way, but still a 33% margin sounds a bit high for a consumer electronic device ... maybe it's different with Apple's philosophy, but in general I doubt there's that much profit to be found in MP3 players -- they may depend on the sales of headphones, cases, iTunes/Amazon gift cards or tracks, CDs to rip onto the device, etc. more than on the actual sale of the device.

<comment><USER22> When I worked for Radioshack a couple years ago, they only made a few dollars per iPod sold, it was all about the high margin accessories added on.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Because it makes giving one as a gift even cooler.

I gave my sister her first iPod as a graduation gift when she got her masters in social work after surviving her first bout with breast cancer. Being able to put this quotation on the back of her gift meant a lot:

"Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."

<comment><USER11> I also think Apple does this to impress the shit out of you. I typed the quotation in on Monday afternoon and got a happy call from my sister on Thursday morning. All the way from China in less than 70 hours.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> _as anyone considered product personalization as a way to mitigate the durable goods problem? Are there other examples of firms doing this?_

Scion pushes the idea of customizing a new car: spoilers, rims, paint jobs, removing the logo, whatever else.

<comment><USER24> That's because the market segment for that car is young people who will spend money on foolish stuff like that.

<comment><USER23> Aside from the expense, I don't think it's more foolish than e.g. styling your hair or wearing a tie: both completely useless except for their effect on your appearance. Older people would probably buy modifications to new cars if marketers invented a way for them to be classy.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> It's probably because Apple sees itself as a luxury brand and thus its products are deserving of engraving. This is all about product positioning, even if you don't avail of the engraving, the fact that it is offered tells you something about it: that people love this brand/product so much that they choose engrave their names and messages on them.

That and Steve probably likes to give personalized gifts....

</comment><comment><USER26> Is it just me or is there an unusually high amount of pointless/useless comments in this thread?

Is that what putting "Apple" in the headline does to a thread? It reminds of Digg...

<comment><USER27> Maybe not putting "Apple" in the headline, but simply blogging about something that's bloody obvious.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> How about making customers happy? How about making a personal gift more personal?

I call this baseless speculation.

It's not like you are forced to have engraving. If you want to resell it, don't engrave it. If you want the person at the receiving end of a gift card to be able to reuse the card, don't sign on the card.

<comment><USER29> More like, they already laser etch the back of the iPod. Why, _not_ take a small step further to differentiate your product and make customers feel even more attached to their purchase? And the reason they charged for it before was not to offset the cost of an extra step in production, but to monetize something that the customers want.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> The whole Gruber-school of finding hidden meanings in whatever Apple does read like Talmudic Torah interpretations, pontificating on why a comma is in a certain place in a certain sentence.

If you want to resell your iPod, don't engrave it. Modern Apple products seem to be designed to expire after a few years anyway - see how Apple really doesn't want to let you replace the battery in said iPod, for example.

</comment><comment><USER31> I don't think this is it. Here is why: Almost all Apple products have a "build in" expiration date. And that is the lifetime of the batteries. Maybe someone could proof me wrong and affirm if iPhone Gen 1 batteries are not good anymore. But it's true, Apple pushes generations fast out of the door, so the engraving is not useless.

<comment><USER32> Perhaps, but Apple has some extremely friendly replacement policies that I personally have used (busted iBook replaced with a black macbook!) and have heard of others running into. Just the other day there was a reddit thread about this, actually:

[http://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/eaqm5/its_this_kinda_...](http://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/eaqm5/its_this_kinda_shit_steve/)

The points about directing people to their store over other stores and minimizing the secondary market are probably the main reasoning behind offering engraving.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> Any idea why Dell/HP and others do not offer engraving for their products?

</comment><comment><USER34> Was this not obvious from the start?

</comment><comment><USER35> Caveat emptor. If you plan on reselling you should think twice about stuff like this.

<comment><USER36> I don't know about you, but I plan to resell something only long after I bought it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> I wrote about trying to get my Nexus One engraved, and how I was going to go about avoiding the depreciation in the secondary market. See the section "On Engraving One's Phone" at [http://blog.yafla.com/Android_22_Engravings_and_the_Google_N...](http://blog.yafla.com/Android_22_Engravings_and_the_Google_Nexus_One/)

I think it would be a clever solution for next year's YCers

</comment><comment><USER38> Why doesn't Apple engrave Macbook Pros for free, too?

</comment><comment><USER39> I would suspect that once you engrave your iDevice that it would be harder to resell, thus bumping up the market for new devices. Or, it could be that people are more likely to buy them as a gift if they can somehow personalize it.

<comment><USER40> That's actually the claim made by the original article.

As a commenter there points out, though, if it's harder to resell your old machine you may be less likely to upgrade to a new one. So there is pressure in the other direction.

The real reason? Apple make more money if you buy from them direct.

<comment><USER41> I don't resell, just reuse. Reselling is stupid.</comment></comment></comment>


A man who was accidentally released from prison 88 years early - <AUTHOR> https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/04/07/unfreed <comment><USER2> The insanity of the charges/sentencing reminds me of a passage from _The Hot House_ (which is excellent, Pete Earley somehow got permission to go mingle with prisoners at USP Leavenworth for a year and write about it).

A Bank Robber, 45

 _' They originally charged me with murder, kidnapping, and bank robbery, but I'm really just a bank robber with really bad luck. You see, my buddy and me were robbing this bank, and when we come outside there is a cop waiting across the street and he starts shooting. He shoots my buddy, but I don't know he's dead so I pull him into the car and drive away. When they bust me, they charge me with murder, kidnapping, and the robbery.

I ask my attorney, "How the hell can they do that? All I did was rob a bank"

He says the law says if you are committing a felony and someone dies, a bank teller has a heart attack or something, you can be charged with murder. He tells me they charged me with murder because my buddy got killed.

He says the law says when I pulled my buddy into the car and drove off, I kidnapped him because I was taking a body from the scene of a crime. That's how they got me for kidnapping.

He says the law says that I can be charged with all three even though I didn't kill nobody and I didn't kidnap nobody.

I say the law sucks.'_

<comment><USER3> The deal you get from prosecutors is only as good as your lawyer and good lawyers cost money. This is what happens when the criminal justice system is run by politicking judges and prosecutors elected by a public whose understanding of punitive systems doesn't get any more nuanced than "let's be hard on crime!"

<comment><USER4> > This is what happens when the criminal justice system is run by politicking > judges and prosecutors elected by a public

The same stupidity is on display in states that don't elect their judges or prosecutors.

The problem is that there is no incentive for actual justice. Neither the judge nor the prosecutor pay for the incarceration. Nor do they care for how long the individual is incarcerated.

Might be nice if they were given a limited number of years to distribute among their convicts. A little scarcity might to do the system some good.

<comment><USER5> Holy shit.

That's brilliant!

Calculate the number of judge sentence years based on prison places, want harsher sentences build more prisons, tie the cost of incarceration directly to judges sentencing.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Talk about cruel punishments, locking up someone for two fucking robberies without any deaths for nearly a century is unreasonable, cruel and defies everything our civilization stands for.

But hey, private prison operators need to make money and police/DA/any part of the justice system profits from being "tough on crime"...

Thank God I'm German, even if you end up killing someone you'll at most get 15 years (okay, there are some exceptions, but they're literally exceptions, not like US where exceptions tend to become standards).

<comment><USER7> Another side of this is that the harsher you make the punishments for small crimes, the less you discourage moving up to bigger crimes.

If you're robbing a place and your punishment for being caught is effectively life in prison, what reason do you have _not_ to murder all the potential witnesses to improve your odds of getting away with the crime? All you have is morality, and I don't want to rely on the morality of criminals.

I know that the deterrent effect of prison on criminals is highly debatable, but if somebody is robbing me, I don't want all of the incentives given to him to point towards murdering me too.

<comment><USER8> > Another side of this is that the harsher you make the punishments for small > crimes, the less you discourage moving up to bigger crimes.

Actually it makes it easier ... there is upper limit on how much you could punish a person. And if the penalties for stealing pack of gum and high treason are the same - well ... why bother with only the first.

<comment><USER9> Read that sentence/post again, because the two of you agree.

<comment><USER8> Too many monsters too little sleep :(

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> The U.S. incarcerates more people than China. Not per capita, mind you. More total people. If ever there's a stellar example of the kind of disaster that can result from privatizing a government function, this is it.

Private prisons have a strong profit motive to increase the number of people behind bars until we have the kind of situation we have today in the U.S. These are folks who can afford to pay lobbyists to create the kind of sentencing that leads to 98 years for 2 robberies, and criminalize non-violent or victimless 'crimes.'

Here's a Last Week Tonight segment on the broken prison system in the U.S.: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pz3syET3DY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pz3syET3DY)

<comment><USER11> I don't know that you can directly compare the two judicial systems. Especially when China executes roughly 61 times as many prisoners - often for petty crimes from repeat offenders.

That being said the US puts far too many people in jail, often for far too long of sentences.

<comment><USER12> Still, I think there is something fundamentally flawed with a society where 40-50 % of all men have been arrested by the police by age 23.

I tried to find some comparable statistics and I found that 5-10 % of all 15-20 year old males in Sweden have been -suspected- for a crime. I doubt that all of them were actually arrested.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> > "Plainly said," Orman wrote in his reply, "the Defendant had no business > getting married and starting a family."

Wow. Just wow...

<comment><USER14> I came here to say just that. I can't believe someone who is supposed to represent justice can dehumanize someone to this point.

It's a very sad thing to read.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> The worst part of this, IMO, is how the mistake was discovered. His former prosecutor was looking up his old cases on the state DOC's website, apparently to delight in the damage he had caused decades earlier. You would have to be a pretty depraved person to derive pleasure from unjustly taking away someone's life.

<comment><USER16> I thought that too until the article implied later that they were looking for other clerical errors as a result of a really bad mixup.

<comment><USER15> The state was auditing some cases, but according to the article his didn't come up for an audit. This was just the DA reflecting on his handiwork.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> There was an element of "pre-crime" to the original sentences. Not just this case, but the article alludes to an entire program to sentence young people who have multiple brushes with the law to life long periods. Taking young teenagers off the streets for the rest of their lives purely on the basis that they are likely to continue committing crimes if they were released again and not for actual crimes committed.

The COP program was done away with, but someone should revisit those horrific sentences given to teens that effectively take their entire lives away. Guilty, yes. But 90+ years for a case where no one got hurt? Wow.

</comment><comment><USER18> Sign the Petition: [https://www.change.org/p/john-w-suthers-release-rene-lima- ma...](https://www.change.org/p/john-w-suthers-release-rene-lima-marin)

</comment><comment><USER19> This article was a very good read.

If you are in America, you should try and contact that governor his family is lobbying. I would, but I'm not living in this country.

<comment><USER20> That would be Governor John Hickenlooper, [http://www.colorado.gov/governor/](http://www.colorado.gov/governor/)

<comment><USER21> Send him a tweet: [https://twitter.com/hickforco](https://twitter.com/hickforco)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> What was he incarcerated for? Edit: Two counts of first-degree burglary and three counts of aggravated robbery

<comment><USER23> "Both men received two counts of first-degree burglary and three counts of aggravated robbery, for each of the three employees they made cooperate at the two stores... Then came the kidnapping charges: three counts of second-degree kidnapping, because they'd forced three employees in those two robberies to move from one part of a store to another."

Edit: and edit ninja'd...

<comment><USER24> I really dislike "stacked" charges. Maybe that's the best way to differentiate between "a burglary", "a burglary where an innocent person was involved", "a burglary where 3 innocent people were involved," and "a burglary where 3 innocent people were involved and made to do stuff beyond 'getting robbed'".

But assuming "equal" charges, is involving three people 3x as bad as involving one? Is "forcing people to move" 2x as bad as just robbing them?

<comment><USER25> "... Two clerks were in the store, not just one. Lima-Marin and Clifton brought them both into a back room, forcing one onto the floor and the other to open the safe. "They put a gun to the back of my head and said, 'This is where you're going to die,'" one of the employees, Shane Ashurst, later recalled."

[https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/04/07/unfreed](https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/04/07/unfreed)

A bit more than simply asking them to move to another room.

<comment><USER24> The "mov[ing] from one part of a store to another" was how the article characterized the kidnapping charge. I would imagine that forcing someone to the floor and threatening them with a gun would be part of the aggravated assault charge. Otherwise, what's the difference?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Heh, I found the most ironic part to be where he talks about the simplicity of prison life. Everything is paid for and he simply studies.

Makes you start to think about what the proportionality of these sentences actually work out in the eyes of the victim of the crime.

In some way the victim wants them awarded the biggest punishment possible, but at the same time that punishment comes out of their pocket in taxes that go to keep this person behind bars for an unreasonable amount of time.

I don't know what the numbers are but that sounds awfully expensive to me and if I was an employee at a video store that got robbed I really don't think I would like all that additional burden on the economy as retribution for a few minutes of fear.

</comment><comment><USER27> It's difficult to read stories about U.S. non-concurrent sentences, third strike system, plea bargaining replacing jury trials, and 1% lockup rate for adults, then listen to their people talk about "Freedom in America" and keep a straight face.

</comment><comment><USER28> This is nothing more or less than cruel and unusual punishment.

</comment><comment><USER29> Reading this made me feel sick...

</comment><comment><USER30> Given that the man _had_ changed, and actually moved on to have a more civil life, can anybody explain the point of him going back to a correctional facility? What are they trying to correct?

</comment><comment><USER31> I would like to see clemency for this man but I don't view the european system as being necessarily superior to the USA. In my country there are a lot of avowedly unrepentant murderers walking the streets after 'life' sentences that in some cases lasted less than a decade. The state has decided to show compassion. It's easy to forgive someone when you're not the victim or one of those who loved a victim. Personally I feel that if you premeditatedly take another person's life you should have no expectation of ever being able to live outside a prison again.

<comment><USER32> If this was really an issue, shouldn't the murder rates in European countries be a lot higher than in the US?

According to Wikipedia [0] the "intentional homicide" rate in the US is 4.7, in the UK 1.0 and in Germany 0.8. Shouldn't those numbers be reversed if the European system was releasing "avowedly unrepentant murderers" back onto the streets?

[0] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentiona...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate)

<comment><USER33> European nations should be compared to European nations. American nations should be compared to American nations. Actually just a glance at your wikipedia page makes this clear: different continents simply have different murder rates. I feel this phenomenon is rooted in historical colonization.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> > and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against > the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

And why is he not rubberstamping such when the prison situation in US is cruel, sadly not unusual and definitely unjust.

<comment><USER34> The offenses were not against the United States. This man is in a Colorado prison for crimes under Colorado law. The President has no authority in this case.

<comment><USER8> There are enough federal inmates with good reasons for pardon. And mass pardons of federal prison could hint the governors about their power too.

<comment><USER34> 1) The governors have powers that vary from zilch to equal to the President's. This is determined state-by-state.

2) You are mistaken if you believe all or even a substantial minority of the governors would ever agree with your views in this matter.

<comment><USER33> The Colorado governor may pardon any Colorado conviction other than those for treason or impeachment. The entire point of this thread is that the governors are culpable for the injustice of the system. Their opinions don't absolve them of that.

<comment><USER34> The comment I responded to said _" And mass pardons of federal prison could hint the governors about their power too."_. This suggests two mistaken beliefs:

1) That governors as a whole have these powers.

2) That "hints about their power" would prompt them to act in the manner he wishes.

The governors don't need hints about their power in this area, they are well aware of it. They don't fail to exercise it as he wants them to because they need a "hint", they fail to exercise it as he wants them to because _they do not agree with him_.

I'm not addressing the thread as a whole. I'm addressing this little corner of it. I'm under no obligation to address the thread as a whole in every comment I make, and doing so would be both pointless and tiring.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


An integrated design and fabrication strategy for soft, autonomous robots - <AUTHOR> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v536/n7617/full/nature19100.html <comment><USER2> To me the lost interesting part of this is their breif description of the microfluid logic (see 11) which still makes no sense to me. This all seems to bla breif synopsus of a unique and interesting project with a giant bibliography and a paywall.

Regardless, the people who will use this technology to its fullest are likely to be gov or big companies. Not 3d printer/roboticd enthusiasts

<comment><USER3> Depending on the price I could see movie studios or places like DisneyWorld using this technology to replace existing animatronics

<comment> gene-h So there are issues with using this to replace animatronics. One is that microfluidic logic has low operating frequencies, as in less than 100 hertz. This makes it hard to do fine control. Issue two is that elastomers do not have a great fatigue life. Even if said robot is really cheap, if you have to replace every couple of months, things will get expensive.

That being said, one could do things that would be hard to do with conventional animatronics. One could cheaply produce something with a huge amount of actuators that oscillate or go through some simple pattern. Which would be perfect for making a lovecraftian horror with thousands of writhing tentacles.

Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

<comment><USER2> I appreciate your imagination!</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Early Patches For Kernel Lockdown Mode Set For Linux 4.12 - <AUTHOR> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-4.12-Module-Params-Lock <comment><USER2> Here's the actual request: [http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1705.0/00987.html](http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1705.0/00987.html)

</comment><comment><USER3> Linus hasn't pulled it yet. (And it's doubtful whether he will.) It's just David Howells has requested him to do so.

</comment><comment><USER4> ...is this a BSD securelevel equivalent? It sorta looks like it.</comment>


Direct3D team office has a Wall of GPU History - <AUTHOR> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/directx/2019/01/07/wall-of-gpu-history/ <comment><USER2> Wow, they have Pyramid3D card. Bitboys had such potential and so much bad luck.

Although their legacy did survive in Qualcomm Adreno GPUs, powering hundreds of millions (maybe even more?) mobile devices.

</comment><comment><USER3> The photos are horribly out of focus. Were they taken with a webcam from 1999?</comment>


Russian-controlled telecom hijacks financial services' Internet traffic - <AUTHOR> https://arstechnica.com/security/2017/04/russian-controlled-telecom-hijacks-financial-services-internet-traffic/ <comment><USER2> Here are more details on the AS that's doing the hijacking: [http://ipinfo.io/AS12389](http://ipinfo.io/AS12389)

They have 78 other ASNs too (search for Rostelecom at [http://ipinfo.io/countries/ru](http://ipinfo.io/countries/ru))

</comment><comment><USER3> BGP is extraordinarily vulnerable. The last paragraph of this article does a good job highlighting the risks of the status quo.

"Such hijacks underscore the implicit trust governments and corporations all over the world place in BGP routing announcements. For years, engineers have proposed a variety of measures to ensure service providers can announce only those networks they're authorized to carry. At the moment, however, there is no authoritative way to do so. Dyn, BGPmon, and similar services do a good job detecting when unauthorized announcements are made, but those detections inevitably come after improper redirections or hijackings have already occurred"

</comment><comment><USER4> Whats it going to take it get Russia cut off from the rest of the internet?

<comment><USER5> _Whats it going to take it get Russia cut off from the rest of the internet?_

I would think that the better question to ask would be "What's it going to take to improve BGP" \- but to each their own.</comment></comment>


Proxmox VE 6.1 – Open-Source virtualization platform - <AUTHOR> https://www.proxmox.com/en/news/press-releases/proxmox-ve-6-1 <comment><USER2> Can't say enough about how I appreciate Proxmox. I had tried Xenserver but it didn't play well with my setup. Proxmox is robust from GUI and CLI. I run two small businesses from my home and the setup allows me to efficiently host pFsense, a mail server, multiple web and DB servers.

But even better for me, the ease and ability to pass through a GPU and run Windows in a VM while using modifiable resources makes it so flexible.

I've been a customer for over two years and they provide support with a super reasonable yearly subscription of just $99. The forum is active and the updates are recent and up to speed.

<comment><USER3> > Proxmox is robust from GUI and CLI.

I'm looking through the CLI docs now and I can't even figure out how to launch a VM. At face value, it doesn't look like a good CLI (well actually they list a bunch of CLI tools for VM management). Am I just looking in the wrong place?

I also want the ability to run setup commands (think AWS user-data) at first boot. The docs indicate user-data support though cloud-init, but I see forum discussions that indicate that you can only set up basic things like IP addresses, SSH keys, etc. Is there a programmatic way to inject bash commands at first boot?

<comment><USER4> You might want to consider ganeti. It works great from the command-line. There is a GUI for it as a separate project, but I've never used it. I've been running ganeti in dev/stg for 6-7 years and production for around 4, and it's been extremely solid.

As far as running bash commands at first boot, in ganeti I have customized their "create" script to include a bash script that installs some packages, clones our Ansible setup, and then runs Ansible to set the machine up. We respin our entire staging cluster every other day (even machines one day, odd the next).

[http://www.ganeti.org/](http://www.ganeti.org/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Last year I had applied for a job where we would have to manage Windows servers. Stuff with Active Directory and storage... I'm Linux guy but have extended experience in WinServer 2012. I just set up a server, boot ProxMox, spun up as many as Win Server 2016 instances I wanted to experiment with all the aspects of the new Win Server and guess what? I was second in the job interview. Thank you ProxMox. You is the best.

</comment><comment><USER6> I can't say enough good things about PVE! I started managing VMware in 2003 and ESXi is a wonderful product. I was running ESXi at home on the free license which only gives you eight vCPUs (if I remember correctly). After hitting that limit, I slowly decided to move to PVE. I was able to migrate my machines quite easily and have never looked back. For so many use cases, PVE is just as good as ESXi. If you're looking to virtualize and have relatively straightforward requirements, it's worth a look. Free is great and it's rock solid. I made that switch three years ago and haven't had a single issue.

</comment><comment><USER7> One thing I've never understood with Proxmox is why networking can't be configured host-side. It seems you are expected to go into each new VM and manually set network settings. Why not have a DHCP server on the host that hands out prescribed addresses by VM id?

If Proxmox could do this in addition to maintaining port forwarding to these VMs I would be happy.

<comment><USER8> I've set up Proxmox a couple times. I do exactly what you described, using dnsmasq. There are a few blog posts out there, this is one [1] I used for inspiration.

I too wish it was a built-in Proxmox feature, or at least officially documented...

[1]: [https://blog.jenningsga.com/private-network-with- proxmox/](https://blog.jenningsga.com/private-network-with-proxmox/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I installed Proxmox at a previous job, doing snapshots in seconds on a database container was nice for backups and the UI makes you feel informed and in control

I would recommend it for most businesses honestly

</comment><comment><USER10> Proxmox is awesome. :)

Back several years ago I worked on a project to build a system for making demos of network solutions. We ran Proxmox inside of an ESX virtual machine and then used it to virtualise various pieces of the demo architecture. The ESX image could simply be coped to an external drive for the consultant to use.

Ultimately the company went for a central-lab demo environment instead but it was pretty cool anyway.

The demo itself was stored as a bunch of Ansible playbooks and assorted scrips so it was Git-friendly, to be applied to a generic ESX template.

We built cool things like a canvas-based Visio-like UI that could be used to define VMs / containers / networks and provision at the touch of a button.

Similarly the solution itself would be visualised using a diagram that supported dynamic components like links showing traffic, counters, graphs etc that would show traffic running between the VMs inside the demo.

We also had a central server that would store pre-created demo templates using Ceph that could checked-out for use via a web UI.

Fun times :)

<comment><USER11> _> We built cool things like a canvas-based Visio-like UI that could be used to define VMs / containers / networks and provision at the touch of a button. Similarly the solution itself would be visualised using a diagram that supported dynamic components like links showing traffic, counters, graphs etc that would show traffic running between the VMs inside the demo._

Nifty! What frontend/backend dev stack did you use? Does anything like that exist in OSS, for any virt platform?

<comment><USER10> No, I built it for this project.

The canvas diagram was plain JS and for logos we used SVGs from company official PowerPoint icon pack to make it look consistent.

The backend was Node.js that ran Ansible playbooks that provisioned things via Proxmox API and then configured the VMs as needed.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Love Proxmox. It has its quirks but overall a great platform for home usage (labs etc) and for small businesses.

</comment><comment><USER13> Probably one of the more notable current applications that still use a lot of Perl. The admin interface is mostly Perl, as are many of the command line utilities.

<comment><USER3> Zoneminder uses a lot of Perl still IIRC.

<comment><USER13> Yep. Also, Booking.com is probably the most notable current Perl user.

<comment><USER14> Craigslist.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I've been running proxmox since v3.0 with lots of success. I admit that back then you could break stuff easily if you did not know what you're doing. Over the time I've been running it continuously with every version in my homelab and it just got more awesome. I tried ESXI and Microsoft Server.. But in the end I always went back to Proxmox and the very stable debian that runs it. Now with the latest version ZFS encryption is also native and I have pretty much everything I could ask for. Can only recommend!

</comment><comment><USER16> Proxmox is good with the large exception of high speed interconnects.

If I have Mellanox IB cards in my servers, proxmox fails to handle ipoib without a _lot_ of legwork. Compare that to something like oVirt; that supports it out of the box.

There is very little incentive for me to recommend a proxmox subscription to any of my clients because having >= 40 gbit interconnects is far better than using lags on single gbit. High traffic internal applications, (and migration!) benefit so much from those interconnects.

<comment><USER17> I have run dual 100gb mellanox in it with no problems without the IPoIB. It seems a pretty specific problem that is probably related to the mellanox cards and not to proxmox, as similar bugs show up with mellanox in oVirt.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> The company behind it in Vienna tried to recruit developers for 3200eur bruto/month, I found this super low compared to current standards.

</comment><comment><USER19> I had a brief stint with proxmox a few weeks ago and didn't like it much. I didn't like the nag popup when you don't have a subscription (and I had installed the nosubscription package!). I migrated to it to see if it would be easier to manage than OpenStack, but I honestly found OpenStack easier to deal with, probably due to familiarity.

<comment><USER15> Yeah that nag is my only nitpick with Proxmox. It's a bit too much in the face everytime I login. You can easily disable it with a code snippet, but I think the devs should just advertise the non-subscription model differently.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> I've used Proxmox on my dedicated host and it was working really well, however one problem I've encountered is that it doesn't really play well with guest OpenBSD (guest randomly was hanging, with no apparent pattern). But Linux and Windows worked perfectly.

<comment><USER21> I agree, FreeBSD (FreeNAS) doesn't play well with it and iSCSI did not work well according to a lot of forum postings and blogs. I wanted a robust NAS and doing it through a VM did not provide the peace of mind I was looking.

The only upside is now I can build a dedicated visualization machine or grab some old enterprise hardware from Craigslist. My wife is not so amused.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> I gave proxmox a solid try for virtualizing a mattermost instance. But it was just way too slow compared to bare metal. Chats took seconds to load instead of ms. I'm sure there's some explanation for it but I couldn't be assed to figure it out and reverted.

<comment><USER23> You were probably missing the virtualization flag if it is that slow.

<comment><USER22> Hmm possible. I will give that a try.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Proxmox is pretty cool, but it doesn't make sense unless you're running many machines and utilizing ceph. For a home user, Debian (or some other stable distro) is still going to be the best distro for doing hypervisor stuff.

<comment><USER25> I'd disagree entirely. If you want an extremely easy to use gui that gives you access to KVM and LXC virtualisations, along with easy access web remote consoles, snapshots and backups, then Proxmox has been a fantastic go-to for over 6 years.

My only objection is that it's a 'full-fat' linux distro that needs to run off a real disk (unlike ESXi), however on every other level it's far superior.

<comment><USER26> > _Proxmox is pretty cool, but it doesn 't make sense unless you're running > many machines and utilizing ceph. For a home user, Debian (or some other > stable distro) is still going to be the best distro for doing hypervisor > stuff._

> _My only objection is that it 's a 'full-fat' linux distro that needs to run > off a real disk (unlike ESXi), however on every other level it's far > superior._

Why not Alpine Linux? I use that in diskless mode [https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Installation#diskless_mode](https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Installation#diskless_mode)

<comment><USER27> They mean proxmox requires full debian. Pretty sure its not a choice. In VMs you can run anything qemu runs. Also no Docker. The devs are opinionated, not that that is necessarily an issue.

<comment><USER15> Docker has been on the wishlist for a while but it seems like the developers refuse to integrate it. I just installed docker-ce manually and added portainer as a systemd service. That way I can manage containers with a 2nd webui.

<comment><USER28> What are your thoughts on this setup vs just docker+portainer on regular Ubuntu LTS, or even a dedicated Docker distro like Rancher?

I had a previous home server built around docker, and found it fiddly to get right— most of the services I wanted to deploy didn't already have containers, and there was a lot of outer config stuff to play with, getting the containers to restart properly on reboot, getting DNS to resolve them, getting the right data directories set up as binds.

But that was also in 2016, so it's likely things are a lot better now, and conversely, it's not necessarily clear that a VM-based approach would be a lot better in some of these areas.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> I'm currently using Yunohost, but I'm finding the system a bit brittle for some use-cases, and some choices rather arbitrary (which was also the point, as I initially chose it to spend less time managing my server).

I would like something a bit more fleximble, and was seriously thinking about jumping to Guix or Nix. Does any of you have any input on this? Proxmox is also a candidate, as I could run my old Yunohost side-by-side with Nix, Guix, and others, I guess. I'm just afraid of overcomplexifying my nginx config.

Allso, if I run Guix/Nix on Proxmox, I'll lose the declarative config advantage... Is the opposite possible?

<comment><USER30> I am sure usecases are slightly different for these two. At least for me personally, "plug and play" offer was the key - so I could easily move stuff around and not think about it. And it has browser access so non-tech people can use email/Nextcloud/etc.

But perhaps Yunohost can be used to model what you have in mind, and once solidified, use it as a base to build VM with precise setup.

Ansible is perhaps the closest you can get to declarative config... See "sovereign" on github - I migrated from it to Yunohost, as things kept breaking and I was looking hands off setup (hence Yunohost), but given that Sovereign is ansible-based - perhaps you can leverage it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> Proxmox running on a nuc i7 with 64GB of ram and a fast nvme drive. The system is very fast and takes very little space. Just wish I had an extra nic.

<comment><USER15> The Hades Canyon NUC actually has 2 RJ45 ports: [https://simplynuc.co.uk/hades-canyon/](https://simplynuc.co.uk/hades-canyon/) But it does cost you some serious money. I have a small i3 NUC and would rather plugin a USB3.0 to ethernet adapter.

<comment><USER11> There's a dual (Realtek) NIC ASRock Ryzen Embedded for $410, don't know how well it supports Linux, [https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16856158065](https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16856158065)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> Used proxmox in its earliest iterations within a startup and found it fantastic.

Recently I tried it again when attempting to install Untangle on a system with EFI. Untangle didn't support EFI so I needed to virtualize it.

I found it too difficult to get software network adapters to work with different physical network cards.

Switched over to VMware ESXi and had vswitch configured within minutes.

YMMV and I'd still recommend Proxmox for simple virtualization projects.

</comment><comment><USER33> Just set up Proxmox on my home lab last week. I'm slowly ramping up the learning curve. Sounds like I made the right choice.

</comment><comment><USER34> Would be cool to see an addon for NAS services in Proxmox... I'm setting up a home server when I get the chance and just want it to run a VM, a handful of docker containers and provide NAS storage at home. In the end, will probably add Docker support, run the NAS in a container or vm and leave it at that.

<comment><USER35> Why integrate the NAS?

I run a Synology full of spinning rust for backups, archives, and shared file storage. It works reliably and is stupid simple to maintain.

Adjacent to that is a server running Proxmox, and I'm currently working to add Kubernetes/Rancher as a layer on top of that. The Proxmox server has a local SSD array so the VMs have fast low-latency storage. VMs that touch larger files (media server, etc) have an NFS mount to the NAS.

IMHO the financial/maintenance overhead of a second unit is totally outweighed by the easy opportunity to have two performance and reliability tiers (fast homelab vs reliable slow storage), ability to upgrade/change the two units independently of each other, and ability for cohabitants to use the NAS without having to understand/deal with the virtualization stuff.

<comment><USER34> I have an older Synology NAS, it's really slow, and TBH need more compute for a few things at home... but don't want to spend on yet another box for this. The main role of the new server is NAS stuff, but if I can do a few other things in the background, so much the better.

I'll be running proxmox and VMs off of an nvme drive in a 4x pcie adapter, and the NAS drives using the hotswap bays in the front.. it's a used R710 (iirc), and has 6 3.5" bays (came with 2TB drives, but replacing the raid controller with one that will support larger drives and upgrading to 8TB as time/cost permits).

I could totally drop the home server compute requirement before the NAS requirement as my desktop could handle those chores.

<comment><USER36> TBH FreeNAS is a great NAS/SAN solution. I'm running a 4x4 RAIDZ2 (8TB effective) with a 10 year old quad core AMD and 16GB DDR2 RAM.

If you are okay with the limited VM hosting capabilities of Freenas (headless VMs and containers on the same network as the file server) then you can use it for that as well.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> Proxmox is pretty nice, except it has two glaring issues:

Setting up networks is a pain in the butt.

Setting up storage is even worse.

Both really require the command line, which shouldn't be necessary.

I ran Proxmox in production for a year for a small ecom company, but if I had to do it again, I'd go vSphere. It's worth it.

<comment><USER37> I just read all the release notes and this reduces the biggest issue with networking:

> If the package ifupdown2 of the Debian network interface manager is > installed, it's now possible to change the network configuration and reload > it in the Proxmox web interface without a reboot.

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> What is your experience with major proxmox and OS updates?

</comment><comment><USER39> We use it at work since Proxmox 3.

The only thing I miss is a truly compatible Terraform module that lets you create accounts, machines and infrastructure. That would be cool

</comment><comment><USER40> What's wrong with using plain libvirt tools, like virsh? Is there some other advantage to Proxmox besides having a nice WebUI?

<comment><USER41> Nobody said it's wrong. It's perfectly OK. Proxmox is _precisely_ a nice web UI for that and a lot of stuff integrated, such as LXC, CEPH, HA, Live Migration...

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> I cannot stand the Proxmox software. It's a total pain in the ass to use.

XCP-NG is also a nightmare due to how half baked Xen Orchestra is.

VMWare ESXi is the only type 1 hypervisor that I would ever recommend to a fellow hacker. You can get a free license for personal use.

<comment><USER43> Can you give an example of the half baked-ness please?

<comment><USER42> Have you used it? It's the perfect example of Twitter bootstrap being all the rope to hang yourself.</comment></comment></comment>