Ask HN: What books can teach me engineering management skills? - <AUTHOR> I was recently promoted to an engineering management position of a tiny team. I'll be expected to contribute code while we're still small, then gradually fill my hours with more managerial activities as we grow.
I've never managed people, let alone an engineering org. What books can teach me solid principles for maximizing our team's impact? I've read so many horror stories about "We switched to X software development philosophy and it was a disaster: News at 11" I'm wondering if there are classic instructional books/resources that still ring true today, cutting through the latest fads.
Is the Mythical Man Month still a good start for the software/project side of things, for example? <comment><USER3> Managing engineers is a new career, that is separate from being an Engineer. Many engineering skills don't transfer to management, even when you think they do.

As a manager, one of the most important things you can do is schedule regular 1 on 1's with the people who report to you. Both "The Manager's Path"[1] and "Behind Closed Doors"[2] stresses this.

In about 4 months, it'll be helpful to review PG's essay, Maker's Schedule, Manager's Schedule[3] Right now, you'll be coding most of your time, but you'll soon have more and more meetings. MSMS names the feeling of frustration around meetings, and describes how to handle so many meetings.

[1] [https://www.amazon.com/Managers-Path-Leaders-Navigating- Grow...](https://www.amazon.com/Managers-Path-Leaders-Navigating- Growth/dp/1491973897)

[2] [https://www.amazon.com/Behind-Closed-Doors-Management- Progra...](https://www.amazon.com/Behind-Closed-Doors-Management- Programmers/dp/0976694026)

[3] [http://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for these. I've got Behind Closed Doors on order from a previous recommendation in this thread, but The Manager's Path appears to be especially apt!

I've read the MSMS essay a few years ago, but had completely forgotten about it. The scheduling problem is actually something I've been struggling with the past few months in the run-up to this new role. When everything is urgent and you're the only one who can fulfill certain data requests, it's difficult to maintain progress on your own projects.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> High Output Management, by Andy Grove. It's not specific to engineering management, but still rocks.

Second, First Break All The Rules. Again, not about engineering, but better than most all other books.

And then also of course Mythical MM and PeopleWare. Those _are_ specific to managing engineering projects/people.

<comment><USER5> Seconding Peopleware - read it some years ago - it is great.

Edit: So is MMM.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> You shouldn't really be getting 'promoted' from engineer to engineer management. I know it always happens but it shouldn't, being a good engineer does not mean they'll be a good people manager.

If you're just starting this new job (and it is a _new job_ ) and you're considering 'maximizing the teams impact' it assumes that you'll in be a good manager and be able to run a team at any efficiency at all. Which is putting the cart before the horse.

You need to start from the basics of people management, just start reading _everything_ and anything you can regarding people management, definitely including non-tech people management.

You WILL make mistakes, you will grow massively and you'll find yourself dealing with problems you might not want to; such as a dev team member missing meetings, or you trusting a team member to deliver something and they tell you 5 mins before the deadline that it won't get done (despite them saying it was all going well), or someone asking why they aren't getting promoted as they've been there for years (but you know they aren't quite cutting it). Or someone wanting vacation during a deadline period. Or in yearly pay reviews you have to choose who gets what and you know that that actually affects their lives....all these things can weigh emotionally on you. Or you needing to recommend that someone gets fired. Or how do your organise a morale event for your team which is inclusive as possible given everyone on your team but also people actually like and increases morale/celebrates your team.

Listen to your team, accept that you're learning, use data to guide your process decisions, be open and honest to your team, learn how to communicate up and down, find a mentor. Decisions you make now affect people as well as code.

It's fun and enjoyable, if not a tad stressful (just think that your job is now debugging people rather than code...and people have wayyyyyyy more race conditions....).

But It Is A New Job Not A Promotion :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for this. You're absolutely right, of course, this is A New Job, not a slight re-spin of the old position.

       Decisions you make now affect people as well as code.

This is critical to keep in mind, thank you.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Pragmatic Programmers have a few titles on that: Behind Closed Doors, Manage It!, and Ship It!. They are all pretty good.

</comment><comment><USER8> Peopleware by Tom DeMarco and Timothy Lister

The book is old, from IBM's heyday but most of the principles have remained unchanged.

One thing you'll find different is that they recommended offices for everyone so that each person could work in a quiet environment where they could focus as opposed to today's open area. I'd argue the open area has it's merits but everyone wears headphones so the current trend may not be all that great. Promoting a team that communicates is the goal, having an open space is merely one way to try and implement that.

</comment><comment><USER9> Kim, Behr and Stafford's "The Phoenix Project" isn't half-a-bad start. Follow it up with everything referenced.

<comment><AUTHOR> Interesting! I've read The Goal before and found it fascinating, but difficult to tie some of the prescriptions to our roles, in particular. It encouraged me to view more of, well, the goal of the company and how we're a machine that processes raw materials (sales leads) and turns it into profit, as well as the different drop offs in the funnel (conversion rate, failure to collect, etc.)

I'll definitely read The Phoenix Project and see if it can better connect the dots for me, thank you.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Just read this, highly recommend it: [http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920056843.do](http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920056843.do)

"The Manager's Path: A Guide for Tech Leaders Navigating Growth and Change"

It's the book I wish I'd had when I was in your position 4-5 years ago.

</comment><comment><USER11> Check out Managing Humans by Michael Lopp. Or, as @jennyp mentioned, check out his blog - rands in repose. His book is basically a collection of blog posts.

Another book that was recommended for new managers is [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1118911954/](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1118911954/) -

Your First Leadership Job: How Catalyst Leaders Bring Out the Best in Others by Byham and Wellins

Radical Candor by Kim Scott

Not books, but other resources that might be useful:

[https://www.tombartel.de/#blog](https://www.tombartel.de/#blog)

[http://softwareleadweekly.com/](http://softwareleadweekly.com/) \- also comes as a weekly email with links to different articles

[https://medium.com/the-year-of-the-looking-glass](https://medium.com/the- year-of-the-looking-glass)

</comment><comment><USER12> The Essential Drucker: The Best of Sixty Years of Peter Drucker's Essential Writings on Management

[https://www.amazon.com/Essential-Drucker-Druckers- Management...](https://www.amazon.com/Essential-Drucker-Druckers-Management- Essentials/dp/0061345016)

</comment><comment><USER5> My 2c (as a developer who has done some engineering / project management earlier, in companies):

The informal technique of Management By Wandering Around (MBWA) can help. I've used it in projects that I handled. It is known to have been used at HP (Hewlett-Packard), and has been written about in books on management (I read it in one such book, and applied it some), but since it is a somewhat obvious thing (at least in hindsight), it's likely to have been known much before.

The basic idea of MBWA is: instead of only relying on formal reports such as weekly status reports and such, to track / monitor how things are going, and to be able to take corrective action, walk casually, now and then, around the work area of the team (whether cubicles or individual offices for team members, the same concept applies), and chat with them (not all at the same time, maybe one or two at a time), and/or be there a while at their desk and watch what they are doing, for a bit. You can learn a lot about good and bad or potentially not so good things that are going on, with the team's (individual's) work, some of which might not surface via the regular / formal reporting mechanisms.

Worth a try, IMO, and can also be fun, since you get to interact with your team members in more casual settings. In fact, if you observe a team member doing something not quite right, or something that can be improved, telling them about it informally in such a setting, can be taken by the team member in a better spirit, than if given as a lecture or reprimand in a formal one-one- one or team meeting.

Edit:

>and/or be there a while at their desk and watch what they are doing, for a bit.

Of course, you have to do this in the right way. It should not come across as though you are watching over their shoulder as they do their work - <USER2> would feel uneasy with that. Can do things like talk with them, ask "how is it going?", "having any issues?", ask pertinent questions about some piece of code or some output or test or design point, etc., and offer suggestions for fixes or improvements as appropriate (both on the specific point and any small process or technique that can help avoid such issue in future - good examples (for junior devs) would be the kind of things that are discussed in books like Code Complete.

Update:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Management_by_wandering_around](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Management_by_wandering_around)

Also relevant:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemba](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemba)

<comment><USER5> >one-one-one or team meeting

Typo, should be: one- _on_ -one or team meeting

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> rands has some good stuff on management, I liked this one in particular on 1:1s [http://randsinrepose.com/archives/the-update-the-vent-and- th...](http://randsinrepose.com/archives/the-update-the-vent-and-the- disaster/)

</comment><comment><USER14> I'm reading some of the books here in the comments. Last two weeks I finished the books:

The Phoenix project

The goal

High output management

These were insanely good. I actually bought some of these to my three siblings.

I'd recommend these books because these books opened my eyes on how management can really help if done right

</comment><comment><USER15> Lots of great suggestions. I'd add Leading Snowflakes: [http://leadingsnowflakes.com/](http://leadingsnowflakes.com/)

</comment><comment><USER16> Anything specific you want to accomplish for maximum team impact?

For example, are there metrics you're trying to hit, or are you trying to ship as many projects on time?

<comment><AUTHOR> Great question. Mostly the latter. We are using GitPrime to track some basic metrics, but don't have anything structured that we're tracking outside of their measurements.

We have trouble estimating how long projects will take, which seems to roll up into failing to adequately spec or appropriately chunk the projects we take on.

Improving my project management skills and revisiting our processes for how we prepare for a project are both high on my "to figure out" list.</comment></comment>


How do you work with Designers? - <AUTHOR> As a developer on a variety of small teams within small companies, I've never 'clicked' with a designer in a consistent way.
There are two buckets in my head. Visual designers simply want to make things look pretty, often with little regard to usability or implementation. UX designers take responsibility for understanding the users, and all the tradeoffs present in the entire interaction. UX designers answer "What?" Developers answer "How?" Visual designers answer "am I happy with how this looks?"
Likely pissed some of you off so please understand: don't intend to demean visual design. My frustration is spilling into the definition. In the projects I've worked on the designers produce work that looks pretty but isnt usable, or has no regard for implementation. Feel frustration at the emphasis put on the visual part because I feel like its coming at the detriment of putting out useful, intuitive software
Noticed the designers in each org slowly become someone that nobody else wants to work with, so they get silo'd off into their own projects and at some point cut out. Honestly a lot of the time I feel like I can't talk with them without deeply offending their ego, and so I'm left dedicating a lot of time and energy to communicating the "right" way with them. I feel like we should be discussing, we should be arguing, talking about stuff. But its silent, deadline comes, and I've gotta put something there so I do and thats what sticks. But there's no thought behind it, just me getting to functional.
Want to be able to lean on the designer to think the things I can't (even if it makes implementation considerably more difficult!). Looking for: explanation why, how they got there, and have some input along the way (ideally to judo down a complicated implementation to a simpler and still be good). On occasion collaboration will happen and usually these are the best parts of the projects.
Beneath it all, here's my real question: Is it me? What can I do better? <comment><USER2> UX person here. I can do the spectrum of work from BRD and research through to wireframes and prototypes, but I stop before visual design.

You've enough detail in here that it's probably not entirely you, but rather your organization. The org has probably hired _artists_ not _designers_ and doesn't know how to make them properly accountable.

The simplest difference between an artist and a designer is who they work for. An artist works for themselves, a designer works for a business goal. An artist wants to be personally satisfied, a designer has metrics.

I've never met an artist I would trust to also do research or usability design, however, so wanting to push them be UX people instead of artists is probably not going to work.

However, you might be able to exert pressure by giving them design constraints.

A visual designer isn't designing a UI for themselves, they're designing a UI for the users of their application, so their business goals are things like user satisfaction, user comprehension, and user efficiency. Do the _users_ like the look and feel (measured with things like desirability tests)? Do the _users_ understand what they are looking at and finding what they need on each screen (measured with comprehension tests)? Do the _users_ get their activities done as fast or ergonomic as possible (measured with usability tests)?

The last one you can directly influence on the engineering side. Chapter four of _The Humane Interface_ explains how to quantify usability. You can literally measure the usability of a UI and establish standards for performance, just like you establish standards for your code's performance. You can mathematically determine the minimum amount of input required to accomplish a task and measure the UI against that, with goals of improving the UI a certain amount over time. You could create test suites that measure a click path to see if a UI change improves or regresses it.

Putting these design constraints in place and then making the designers responsible for hitting them are a good way to see whether they're really designers, or just artists.

<comment><AUTHOR> This is a great reply and strikes the heart of my question. Thank you! Just ordered that book.

haha. therapists will tell you to use "I feel" language. Seems like the similarity in communication here is "The users." This is a great way to leave no ambiguity for them to interpret as me commenting on their worth or identity as a person or professional, which I never am. Now that you've pointed this out, I can't believe I haven't been intentionally doing this forever.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> It's a tough problem and it goes beyond visual design and has to do with the difference between a "group" and a "team".

In a group everybody thinks their responsibility starts and stops in a narrow scope and they get defensive when people push on them to rethink that and the last thing they want to do is slow down working on their little piece to help somebody else or get consensus on something.

In a team there is a sense that we are pulling together to attain a greater goal and people do what it takes even if it goes outside what they think their job description here.

Often teams are created by a real or artificial crisis. At one place I worked, I got gelled into a team right away because they put me on a project that was horribly behind schedule and that meant getting a huge amount of support from everybody in the office to get it ready. I worked at another place for about 4.5 years and it turned out the crisis that got me integrated into a team with (one of my overlapping) workgroups was also the one that got me (and my other workgroup) fired.

Military training of course works this way, and so do "team building" exercises.

<comment><AUTHOR> Military books on human organizations are some of the most effective I've ever read. Any specific exercises that you lean on?</comment></comment>


Poll: How do you spend your time in the bathroom? - <AUTHOR>

<comment><USER2> Reading my current book

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Reading magazines

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Checking emails

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Watching TV

</comment><comment><USER3> Sudoku

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> iPad</comment>


Tom Lane joins Salesforce.com - <AUTHOR> http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PgCon_2013_Developer_Meeting

<comment><USER2> Those of us at another arm of Salesforce ( <http://postgres.heroku.com> ) are incredibly honored to have Tom join the family. The team they've put together there is doing some really exciting work.

</comment><comment><USER3> Tom Lane is a hero. Guy worked on TIFF, did a ton of PNG, then organized JPEG, and now does seriously awesome work on postgres, and has for some time.

He also responds to a ton of postgres mailing list emails <http://www.citusdata.com/blog/57-postgresql-full-text-search>

<comment><USER4> Seriously! Most of what I know about relational databases, I learned by reading Tom Lane's emails to pgsql-hackers and -performance.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> For a little more context on why this might matter: [http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/10/salesforce- orac...](http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/10/salesforce-oracle)

</comment><comment><USER5> I always look forward to reading Toms stuff on the pgsql-hackers mailing list - I hope this move means Salesforce is making a big push into Postgres core development.

BTW, the linked page also has some interesting notes on what the PG developers are planning to work on in upcoming releases, and is well worth a read.</comment>


On depression, privilege, and online activism - <AUTHOR> http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2014/06/on-depression-privilege-and-online.html

<comment><USER2> This guy is completely innocent and has done no wrong, yet he feels so guilty and tip-toes around everything, just because he has white skin and a penis. That's can only be the result of a movement that is sexist and racist. That's the issue people have.

But I hear you. "He's privileged!" The thing is, he has no control over the privilege that others give him. And no one should feel guilty for something they do not ask for, do not do themselves, and do not have any control over.

The fault with privilege is in the people who give it to others. The only way to fix such a thing is for all of society to stop giving favors to people based on their gender, race and sexuality. What a fucking shame it is that these SJWs are doing exactly the opposite of that.

This is how the status quo of "social justice" has transformed:

Past: "No one should receive positive or negative treatment based on superficial factors, we are all of equal worth"

Present: "White men are all better off, therefore let's treat them like shit and do lots of favours for everyone else to even it out"

If that sounds like a positive transformation, and not a regression, then I am quite concerned. One seems to be an enlightened response, the other seems to be at the level of a teenage middle child.

<comment><USER3> The privilege of entering the lifeboat last...

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> It's a lesson that doesn't seem to get learned, even after decades of research saying that people start internalizing negative stereotypes, 'reasons' they have been abused, and statements indicating low expectations of them. When people hear 'math is hard', many people don't even try to learn it. When people who consider themselves part of 'group X' hear 'group X is bad at whatever', they don't do 'whatever'. And when 'group Y' hears that they won't amount to anything, many just give up trying. It's destructive, it's horrible, and it is real.

There are a few important things to realize here. Some of those who say these horrible things often don't understand the topics very deeply. As a former, and still peripheral member of various social justice 'communities' (and I quote that because the 'communal' part is often centered around unfocused anger), I see and have seen so many people come to discussions with only talking-point-level understanding who run with it (or are simply running on 'cached thoughts', rather than situational ones.) The other thing, which the author likely knows well, is that in the Oppression Olympics, the author is in the biggest loser group, so is going to be cared about the least. Despite endless blog posts and pleas to end the OO, internecine attacks, ally-bashing, purity tests, knee-jerk responses, and all the other wonders of the SJW world, it goes on. I don't blame the author for exiting. It's part of what made me sideline myself, and many other former dedicated members of these communities.

</comment><comment><USER5> _At least I 've mostly stopped using Twitter._

This is absolutely a good idea. As a gung-ho advocate for Twitter for several years, the service has become a cesspit of mud slinging, public shaming, and rapidly bringing together people for crusades rather than somewhere opinions can be discussed sensibly and processed over time (140 characters + real time == ripe for gut reactions and basal instincts, unlike blogging or video).

A 'lite' alternative I've adopted in the past week is to only read and post but to totally ignore the "Notifications" tab (so you see no @replies). That way you get the best bits but without exposure to most of the toxicity.

<comment><USER6> The company you keep...

I follow mostly academics, researchers, and people who tend to ascribe to the "talk is cheap, show me the code" mentality. My Twitter experience is very positive (and when someone gets a little too happy with inflammatory tweets, the "mute"/"unfollow"/"disable retweets" buttons are very easy to find).

<comment><USER5> This is very true. Unfortunately a lot of the more prolific open source/Web people I need to follow due to my work like jumping onto bandwagons or raise pitchforks on social matters. The people I'd follow if I were just using Twitter for fun would be very different (and indeed, having realized that, I started a new account last night that's entirely for my own gratification :-)).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I think a big part of the problem is that when people are angry, they resort to shame as a tool of retaliation. Instead of saying "Dude, what you said was uncool." they say "Dude, you are a piece of shit."

I think Brene Brown explains very well the importance of guilt vs shame and I'd like to see greater awareness of this distinction in conversations about "isms":

[http://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_listening_to_shame](http://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_listening_to_shame)

<comment><USER8> But in resorting to shame as a tool of retaliation, they become the problem that they are angry about.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> The author is suffering from unreciprocated empathy.

After a while of noticing the shades of grey, you come to realise that those at the extremes see things as purely bivalent. i.e by their definition if they're 'white' and your white has the merest hint of black in it, you're against them Q.E.D.

Getting involved leads to a lose-lose self-reinforcing situation. Even opining whilst on one's own turn will get you dragged in if you're noticed by one of the extremists.

</comment><comment><USER10> Getting depressed by hanging around with assholes is not very surprising. If these are the people you get to meet in your online activism, it probably helps to stop thinking of them as partial to your cause, especially if you truly believe that there are more constructive ways for the movement to manifest itself.

</comment><comment><USER11> extremists on my side of an argument make me far more unhappy than extremists on the opposing side.

<comment><USER8> I'll go a step further. Extremism on my side of an argument is more likely to damage me (albeit unintentionally) than extremism on the opposing side.</comment></comment>


Becoming a high performing software developer working from your bedroom - <AUTHOR> https://zephony.com/remote-software-developer-productivity <comment><USER3> As someone who developed their career from the comfort of their bedroom, I always find it very interesting to see people all over the world from different cultures experiencing the same basic issues with this kind of work set up.

I absolutely loved working from my bedroom for years. It was great (despite the common down falls like the ones listed here). My family used to make fun of me at parties and seasonal celebration "OH YOU'RE NOT IN YOUR PAJAMAS TODAY", but joke was on them after a couple of years - I was making 5 to 10 times what they were per year, and I was waking up at 8:50am with no commute.

I eventually ended up investing in building my own "detached" office in the back yard - a dedicated space set up for working. This was by far the best thing I ever did. It created a visible boundary between home and work life, and I still didn't have to commute or work in any clothes other than my pajamas the majority of the time.

I couldn't image going back to a bedroom now. But even more so, I can't imagine how painful it is for people to sit in traffic every day, stressing they might be late, burning money on fuel and their car, and waking up earlier than they really should.

It's pretty reasonable to think you might spend $100 a week on a commute straight out of your own pocket. That money is gone forever. Now consider if you invest that money over 30 years in some low to medium risk areas and average 10 - 15% per year. That's a healthy addition to your retirement fund of around $1,500,000, plus a good amount of extra sleep.

EDIT: Okay 15% is maybe a bit hopeful and lucky. But still 7 - 10% will make a difference in your retirement.

<comment><USER4> > low to medium risk areas and average 10 - 15% per year.

Where can I get this return reliably at "low risk"?

<comment><USER5> There are places in the US where this is the rate of appreciation on real estate. While there are periodic setbacks (see: 2008-2012), real estate is remarkably stable across the country, especially in major cities. The small, somewhat rural area I live in had an average appreciation of 13% last year, which is not sustainable for this area but still indicative of the overall trend.

<comment><USER6> and you know lots of real estate deals that are low risk, pay 10-15% and available for participation @ $100 / week?

>> an average appreciation of 13% last year, which is not sustainable for this area but still indicative of the overall trend.

not sustainable but indicative of the overall trend? What does that even mean?

<comment><USER5> It means we aren't going to see 13% every year in my localized market, but we will see a continued upward march - where the data from the past 30 years bears that out. Other markets like Seattle, given the geography and current restrictions it isn't much of a jump to think you could average a 10% appreciation for the next decade.

I don't recall anyone saying anything about participation @ $100 / week, so don't be flippant. The comment was made about low risk at 10-15%. If you had $100/week to spend, I'd put it in a drip and buy pharma stocks because there are many paying a sizable dividend, but I'm not your broker so get your own advice.

<comment><USER7> Ah real estate: the rent keeps going up and there's no easy way for individuals to benefit from it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> > Buy a whiteboard and write the goals for the day on it, for instance

As a solo dev the biggest productivity booster for me, from a physical and mental aspect, was purchasing a whiteboard. It honestly feels like some sort of hack. Prior to having one I would use pen and paper but that didn't quite scratch my itch - if I made a mistake I would have to scribble it out and that space was now wasted. I can't quite explain why but on a whiteboard my brain juices just flow. Made a mistake? Wipe it off. Need more space? Wipe it off (or purchase additional whiteboards).

My high school maths teacher once said something that has stuck with me since - "When you're stuck on a problem, start fresh on a blank piece of paper." \- he must've meant a whiteboard ;)

<comment><USER9> The Frixion pens they sell in Japan are incredible for this. They're truly erasable, not like the shitty ones I remember from my childhood. The multi- color pens are especially useful. All the fun of brainstorming and erasability, without the bad smells and imprecise lines of whiteboard markers.

[http://www.frixion.jp/lineup/work.html?pid=product_ball-3-sl...](http://www.frixion.jp/lineup/work.html?pid=product_ball-3-slim)

<comment><USER10> I would never use those to write something important in a notebook. I did this and left it in my bag, the sun shone on the bag and because of the heat most of my notes got erased. Well because friction = heat, so it was the same thing.

<comment><USER11> You can get it back by throwing it in a freezer, at least I was able to when I should prove someone wrong... :-)

(pilot frixion, blue, bought in Norway)

<comment><USER12> Here's[1] a proof I recorded a long time ago. Enjoy my notes on virtual memory.

[1]: [https://youtu.be/hM4-4G36H7U?t=31](https://youtu.be/hM4-4G36H7U?t=31)

<comment><USER13> Yea, but if you reuse the paper, it becomes an accidental palimpset with all the layers visible.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> When people envision working from home, it seems that "wearing pajamas" is a common trope.

That is not a good idea.

The thing about clothes is that they're part of a routine. I.e. I wake up, make some tea, put some fresh clothes on, turn on my computer, and now I'm in work mode. Ideally. In practice it doesn't always work like that, but it's still far better than waking up and just sitting down in front of my computer. Having a routine is really important for not getting lost.

They don't have to be business clothes or whatever, but just something fresh for the day. I'm the sort of nerd that wears chinos and a button up shirt even though I work from home and don't have video calls.

\---

In addition, blurring work and personal life isn't good. You ideally don't want to work in the same room that you sleep, but this can't be avoided sometimes.

Variety is also key. Sometimes I go out and get work done from a local cafe for a change of pace.

<comment><USER15> As a woman the opportunity to wear clothes just for their warmth and comfort is something I will never turn down. Being able to wear pyjamas was definitely one of the top things about working from home. Men don't have the same issues of unpractical clothing and being judged on their appearance.

<comment><USER14> This misses the point I was making. Wearing pajamas is fine, I was referring to the clothes that one slept in. Changing to something fresh is what I meant.

I'm male but my legs get cold from time to time, also, so I keep a small blanket near my desk and a space heater during the winter.

<comment><USER16> Ah right. I got it.

I'll invest in bed pajamas, work pajamas, breakfast pajamas and lunch pajamas & dinner pajamas.

I'm not at all being snarky here. I haven't decided if I'm being serious. I would happily wear flannel clothes EVERYWHERE given the chance. Being naked has never really appealed to me but wearing soft, fragranced, soft, woolen clothing every where?

Sign me up!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Sometimes I have unproductive _weeks_. It can be hard to overcome the miasma by refactoring code or picking favourites.

I have found the easiest way to get out of the funk is to start making Todo lists of my life. Get the things out of the way that are bothering me or need to be done as a priority and then slowly chip away at it.

Productivity isn't something you can hack. There is a maximum that you can do without sacrificing the quality of your work, and your goal should be to maximize quality, not to plan your day out in five minute intervals, that's a great way to burn out.

<comment><USER18> You might be interested in the dynamic described here: [https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200130-the-life- hack-...](https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200130-the-life-hack-to- reduce-admin-and-carve-out-downtime)

I can attest to the efficacy of scheduling life things with respect to mitigating the ambient cognitive load of life. Otherwise, you can fall prey to what feels like boredom, or the next best thing, which is cleaning the house/doing chores as a form of procrastination.

Beware: getting things out of the way first is a common mindset leading to never achieving long-term goals. There are always important tasks in life that aren't the most important at any given moment (and perhaps never are.)

<comment><USER19> The most important things are long-term, and therefore don't seem urgent. The days may be long, but the years are short, and unless you specifically make time to work on important long-term things, they just won't get the attention they deserve.

That said, people often use less important things as a way to avoid dealing with the big ones. I often get to the end of the day and know I got a lot done, but also know I was avoiding something bigger all day.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> I have switched from working in bedroom, to working in a dedicated office, to working in a co-working space, to working from home in a dedicated office.

1\. Working from the bedroom is hell. It's fun for the first few months but then you are likely to have severe eye strain and become very sleepy.

2\. Working from a real office sets boundaries and forces a schedule. You have to wake up at xx:xx time and drive to office. But traffic for a downtown area is hell, so is finding a parking spot, finding a reasonable place to eat, etc... After a while, I got bored of the fact that there is little human communication since I was alone in the office. Also, I thought about all the time I wasted commuting to the office.

3\. Working from a co-working space was a boost for the first 2-3 months then downhill. I need multiple monitors, my own whiteboard, where to put stuff, etc... It's not very sustainable. And everyone seeing what you were working on was not really for me.

4\. Working from a dedicated office in my apartment was a good change; but after 1.5 years, I feel like I have become super-lazy to do any going outside and more likely to instead go to the bedroom for a quick nap.

I'm thinking now of renting an office but instead in the residential area I live in (think 2-5 minutes drive, 10 max). That should be the best of both worlds; though my only concern is that the residential area is super sleepy and it might affect my mood.

<comment><USER21> The best for me was working out of co-working space BUT not the one you imagine. It was actually from an office of a company I worked for before. About 5 people, modern, spacious, 15 minutes walking distance from my home. Literally not a single con. I just paid for my old desk space and that was it. I always suggest people to do the same - don't go to dedicated co-working space. I never understood that concept. Try to find a company that would rent you out a desk, in a walking distance from your home. Ideally with 24/7 access ass well. I had my screen there and only carried my notebook. Unfortunately after years, the moved to smaller space and there was no space for me, which sucks. I haven't worked outside home since :(

<comment><USER22> > It was actually from an office of a company I worked for before. About 5 > people, modern, spacious, 15 minutes walking distance from my home. > Literally not a single con. I just paid for my old desk space and that was > it.

I have always felt like there is a market here. I work remotely, but want somewhere to work from consistently for a few days a week. I've tried coffee shops, coworking spaces, etc, but none of them replicate the social aspect of working in an office (which is something I somewhat miss). I'd love to find a local company that has some extra space that would rent me a desk, but I'm not really sure how to approach it short of cold calling a bunch of places.

<comment><USER21> i made a website for renting and selling real estate - worldwide. visually close to airbnb(ie. big map on the screen) and quite unique filtering mechanism for the ads(i've yet to see anything close to it). essentially the point was to connect buyers and sellers directly because i think real estate agents are just leeches that have no place in 21st century. it was completely free and the goal was to sell ad space. it had not only homes and flats but warehouses, offices and anything else you can think of. one of the things i made point of having was exactly what we are talking about - a rentable desk space. unfortunately, these days, these types of projects live and die with how much money you are willing and able to put into advertising. it is not like in early 2000s or 2010s where a good idea could make it. today, everything has been done and everything has top players(whether service or software). so innovation won't do shit anymore. your success is solely based on ads and getting the name out there(essentially brute-forcing your way to the market). so in the end i killed the project.

though one thing i began working on was my own map tile rendering. i had a free provider(since google and others are insanely expensive for this specific type of project) but i wanted to make my own, for fun. and recently i quit working on a one of my big projects so with a ton of free time on my hands i am thinking of trying again and relaunching the project.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> > You would think that the more time you spend working, the more results you > produce.

No, if you are a remote worker who sits at a desk and forces yourself to work at specific times solely because you feel you should be working, you are doing it wrong.

Go the other way. Figure out what times naturally work best for you, and work at those times. If you are sluggish in the afternoon, take breaks. Work early mornings, late nights. Go spend time with kids if you have them. Then sit down and work while they spend an hour at a friends house after dinner.

If you are remote, you should not be spending more time working. You should be working less hours, but more effectively.

<comment><USER24> I don't know about this to be honest.

I don't feel like I'm being more flexible than when I was working in an office, because I worked in a company with a "get stuff done, butt-in-chair doesn't matter" attitude. Hence I could just go to the dentist in the middle of the day or arrive at 11.30AM if I wanted to.

But now that I work from home, I actually like having a predictable schedule. Plus on top of that, even when you work remotely you still have meetings so that limits the flexibility a bit.

I don't think I'm doing it wrong. But it might not work for everyone.

<comment><USER25> I would tend to agree with this. I might be working from home but that doesn't mean that I want work to bleed into all of my waking hours.

Nobody at work would mind if I needed to pop out during the day or do something, but equally, I think it's important to have some boundaries where I can turn the computer off after a certain time and not think about work. I certainly wouldn't want to be going back to it at 9pm unless there was a good reason to.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Probably echoing something that's already been said here, but my number 1 advice to being high performing from your bedroom is _don't_ work from an actual bedroom. There's a psychological baggage of being in the room that you sleep in that shorts circuits the part of your brain dedicated to being up an active. It's not always possible but if there is another room with a flat surface in your home, do anything to make that your distraction free workstation. Did wonders for my productivity.

</comment><comment><USER27> I personally hate working from home, and will only do it if there are reasons I can't work somewhere else, such as needing to be home for a plumber or being sick. I'd rather work anywhere else, whether that's an office, a library, or even a cafe.

My house is my sanctuary, it's my safe space where I can retreat back to after a day of work. I put a high priority on keeping my work life and my personal life separate. I won't work on weekends unless it's an emergency (I'm also usually not sober enough to work for those 48 hours anyway, even if the called).

<comment><USER28> > I personally hate working from home, and will only do it if there are > reasons I can't work somewhere else, such as needing to be home for a > plumber or being sick.

Why are you working if you're sick?

<comment><USER29> You mean you actually get sick leave in your country? _cries in American_

<comment><USER30> While lots of American companies have utterly shit sick and vacation policies (I have friends who lose vacation days if they use up sick days which is fucked up), the company I work for has been very good at this. If you are sick, stay home. If you feel like working, eh ok, but you are encouraged to rest up. There are better companies out there.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> > And most importantly, turn off your WhatsApp and Instagram notifications on > your phone.

This one thing will make you high performing software developer working from anywhere in the world.

<comment><USER32> Jokes on you, I hardly get one Instagram notification a day.

<comment><USER31> hahaha,They are Great Time Killing Machine. They take time away from you before you even realize it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> I've been a remote employee for 10 years now (plus 4 being a freelancer) and I've tried every productivity hack under the sun and the only thing that has worked for me is: do meaningful work.

<comment><USER34> And be ready to catch that wave of productivity when it hits. Personally I can't work 8 hours straight. I try to make work a part of life, and it's not bad since it's a creative job. Have some structure to fall back on but take advantage of the flexibility when it is useful. Get Excersise in during the day, your mind a body will have more energy. Go to a coffee shop/library and get around other people. Get in your 8 hours in the most comfortable way possible.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> > Refactoring usually is not going to be as tasking as working on a new > feature

Maybe if you wrote the entire codebase yourself just a week ago so everything is still fresh in your memory.

In most real-world situations that is not the case, and refactoring becomes a careful task that leads to regressions even with testing in place.

<comment><AUTHOR> I agree with you. Refactoring some one else's code, or even your own code after a few months is definitely not going to be a no-brainer.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> For me 2 things helped to overcome the "drag" work:

\- I only work from one place in my house, and it's not the bedroom. It's a dedicated desk. I do not work from anywhere else, and I don't do anything other than work at that desk.

\- When I need to work on something boring, I set the time on my Apple watch to 1 hour, and get to work. When the timer is done, whether the work is done or not, I take a break.

In rare cases where I need to keep track of a ton of stuff, I haven't found anything better than a spiral bound notebook.

</comment><comment><USER37> I'm single dad with 3 young kids and I would never change from working from home. After leaving the kids at daycare in the morning, I come home and quickly clean up the house. I do stuff like meal prep and laundry in pauses during the day. I spend quality time with my kids in the evening instead of doing chores. When they go to bed, I can relax, read a book and workout. I don't know how I would do any of this with 1-2 hours of commute.

In term of productivity, I'm more productive at home without the distraction of a workplace. I don't have any special setup. Just a laptop really. Not even headphones. I have a nice office space setup in my basement with a whiteboard and an extra monitor but I rarely use it. I'm more often working from the kitchen or living room.

I still love going to the workplace (or another place) from time to time. There's no substitute to interacting with people in real life.

</comment><comment><USER38> > _The best thing to do in that situation is to accept the fact that you are > not feeling in the zone. But the solution is not to give in into that > feeling and start binge watching NetFlix either_

Ah I disagree, as a sample side of one.

I tried pushing through for a while and doing a small amount of work / refactoring, but it didn't really click.

Finally decided to try not working on the days I wasn't in a groove, and have found that if I do, I have much better ideas and crank out a massive amount of work over the next couple days until I wake up feeling out of the zone.

Most people would probably benefit from not having a 2 day block weekend, but rather having downtime on say Sunday and Thursday. In the same way athletes have staggered rest days.

I'm lucky enough to have a job where I can do this, but it was also a semi- requirement during my last job search.

</comment><comment><USER39> What are some good ways to avoid distractions? I often find myself watching YouTube/Netflix or on steam for endless hours before realizing it

<comment><USER40> I find that reducing the number of decision making events by relying on a routine helps. When and where are you endlessly watching Youtube or Netflix? Is it the first thing in the morning after you grab your phone or is it happening at your desk. Depending on the answer, you want to establish a routine so you don't have to think about what you want to do next.

Let's say it's your phone first thing in the morning that is causing this problem. You could put your phone and charger far away from your bed. Then establish a sequence of actions that take you from bed to desk, without getting anywhere near your phone.

This is not an all-or-nothing method, where you fail even if you miss one step in the sequence in your routine. You start by making one or two adjustments and then build on your success.

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> I work remotely and I agree with everything here except the title: don't work from your bedroom, have a dedicated space for it at home even if it's part of the living room. If you can afford a separate room for it, do that instead.

</comment><comment><USER42> The author's spelling of "NetFlix" bothered me a lot more than it should.

<comment><USER43> More than the lack of padding on mobile?

</comment></comment><comment><USER44> To those who have invested time in making a "task breakdown table":

Have the benefits of contextualizing your short-term goals outweighed the cost in time it takes to make the table for small tasks?

<comment><USER45> Yeah I wonder.

Seems optimistic to be able to breakdown a project into 15 minute intervals.

Personally I do keep Todo lists, but it's more like scratch that I append many notes to.

I don't see the advantage in guessing how long each task will take down to the minute and then writing that into a table.

</comment></comment><comment><USER46> High-paid developers do not typically do "Finalize the columns of the Users table" kind of tasks. Typically, you have a set of complex products, and spend your days in reviewing designs and defining product requirements. The kind of tasks in this article is for beginner devs, and these rarely work fully unsupervised, hence pajama work is off the table

<comment><USER47> If finalizing the data scheme for a core concept like "users" is a junior task, I fear for your ops team. At any rate, they're example tasks...

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> Working from home is my natural mode for the last 20 years. I use basement so privacy/distraction is not a concern. So far works just fine for me. I own/co- own couple of companies but no other employment. I mainly develop and maintain/sell/lease my own products and do the same thing as a consulting gigs for other companies.

</comment><comment><USER49> For years I have worked remotely. And I think that I was more productive these days than when work regulary. All these advices I saw here, in my opinion are rubbish. Just sit down and do your work, all you need is your PC , pen and notebook. If you have difficulties to work in such manner change your job.

</comment><comment><USER50> I like the concept of working on your favorite part of the project when you don't feel like it.

Great trick!

</comment><comment><USER51> The API example seems a bit weird once you learn about API generators such as API Platform (Symfony), which basically generates the whole thing the author talks about in a couple of commands.

Learning the right tools is an important part of being a high performing dev.

</comment><comment><USER52> Nowadays I find it more important to define what "high performance" means to me and enjoy it when it happen by itself instead of forcing myself into a scheme while destroying my health and happiness.

Sometimes for me the KPI is digging deeper than anybody else can and solve a real root cause issue. Sometimes it means simply not being in zombie mode in the evening (i.e. yes, actually working less). Sometimes it means finding something that may be less efficient but everybody can agree and do together.

In each of these cases having the right kind of tea and tea cup at hand is much more important than training the best scheduling techniques. ;-)

</comment><comment><USER53> This is very unrealistic. Real life is, I will be constantly disturbed by slack, email, meetings, people petting on my shoulder. Other than all these, I probably can have 1 or 2 hours a day to concentrate on the actual development

<comment><USER53> but yeah, working remote could avoid some of that, but only some

</comment></comment><comment><USER54> I'm a college student and do most of my work from my dorm room, which is also where I sleep, eat, and socialize. For me, lighting is the main thing that helps me differentiate "work mode" from not-work mode. I have a video light mounted above my desk and a couple of bright 5600k plant lights in my window, all of which are on a light timer, in addition to my desk lamp. When I do work during the day, my desk is very well-lit. At night all of these get turned off (sometimes I turn the video light back on but set it to a much warmer color temperature and lower brightness for ambiance).

</comment><comment><USER55> Everyone is different so this is only a "maybe think about this" tidbit and not advice:

I carved about 100sqft out of the corner of my bedroom for an office. And it worked well for a while. But I eventually found that I needed complete separation between home and work. I found myself always kind of at work and not sleeping as well.

So I moved my office into a basement room. The view isn't as nice but there's a concrete concept of leaving the office, shutting the door, and that's that. And now my bedroom is for sleeping (or sometimes building a fort).

</comment><comment><USER56> I have been very lucky in that I'm completely flexible for working at home (in my study) or the office. I can say with certainty that I'm more productive (on average) at home than in the office. However, something I never imagined would be the case became reality:

I enjoy going into the office more. I simply miss the social aspect and the ability to chat about difficult problems in a break out space.

There's definitely something to be said about the desire or dream of working from home and the reality of what your personality prefers.

</comment><comment><USER57> I experienced a dramatic positive impact changing my home work environment from a dark, cramped area to a bright, sunlit room. Similarly I found that my productivity is significantly better standing (queue standing desk.) What's remarkable in this story is how long it took me to realize how important the environment is to how successful you are.

</comment><comment> cbm-vic-20 Is there a reasonably priced VESA-monoitor-arm attachable whiteboard out there? Something like this[1] that's cheaper, or should I just build my own?

[1] [https://www.ergotron.com/en-us/products/product- details/98-4...](https://www.ergotron.com/en-us/products/product- details/98-408#/)

<comment><USER58> No idea, but if you can't think of anything else there's bound to be an iPad mount and a whiteboard around that size you could combo up

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Any home office post that doesn't mention leafblower noise mitigation is unprepared for the rest of society =(

<comment><USER40> Indeed. I have these for yard cleanup days and garbage days:

[https://twitter.com/danialranjha/status/1212991364142551041](https://twitter.com/danialranjha/status/1212991364142551041)

</comment></comment><comment><USER59> I'd love to work from home but can't seem to find any remote gigs. I've applied to quiet a few with little to no response. I get tons of responses from non-remote / relocation opportunities. Any secrets? this article doesn't mention how to find one effectively.

<comment><USER60> Have you checked the "Who is hiring?" threads? There are several remote positions listed each month. [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22225314](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22225314)

<comment><USER59> Yes I have. Put in a few applications for remote positions but never hear anything back. I hear back from others though. Maybe I need to be less picky

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER61> I always have a blocnote next to me which is basically one continuous checklist. New tasks that I think of go to the bottom with an empty checkbox on the left. Whenever I finish something, or a task becomes irrelevant I cross the checkbox. Works well for me.

</comment><comment><USER62> This article had many good ideas for improving remote work, but I had to laugh at this:

> That is why funded startups and companies spend millions of dollars in a > really good office environment.

The proliferation of open offices says otherwise.

</comment><comment><USER63> Quote: "5\. A snow-white owl to bring you your posts (just kidding)."

Here is the non-kidding no. 5 item: a rubber-duck (who knows, knows)

<comment><USER64> I have a very nice home office, but still sometimes work at my local library. Change is rejuvenating.

re: snow-white owl: I have a parrot and when he is being a good boy, I let him hang out in my office. Cheerful background presence.

</comment></comment><comment><USER65> This is a great write up that has the potential to save many beginners the headache of discovering these methods the hard way.

</comment><comment><USER66> Can you get a FAANG salary working remotely (without somehow negotiating after working at FAANG for a few years?)

</comment><comment><USER67> Why are we sharing such click-baity articles that do nothing to accomplish what they promise? At best, it should be titled "2 self-evident tips for increasing productivity". Either way, anyone who has reached the age of 20 would have learned these from experience. Quite honestly, reading this goes counter to what the title promises. Not sure why this is ranking so high...

</comment><comment><USER68> I'm more curious how a 12 year self taught programmer can make 6 figures.

My Engineering job pays too well to jump into software

</comment><comment><USER69> off-topic: I like how that agency is selling "Faster pages" / "just like this website hence resulting in lightning fast websites."

But sending 1.3MB over the wire for a super simple website :D

<comment><AUTHOR> I just checked the bundle size and it's around 70KB, not 1.3MB. I guess you summed up the images being loaded as well?

And "Faster pages", since it's an SPA. And SPAs usually have the whole website bundled into a single JS file and an optional CSS file - hence bigger than a static website rendered on the server :)

PS: I designed the website.

</comment></comment><comment><USER70> Not high performing enough to make sure your website shows something with javascript off? That's a freaking blog and all I see is a white blank page. Using React for a blog is kinda over-engineering it nope?

<comment><USER71> > Using React for a blog is kinda over-engineering it nope?

No? Use what makes you happy as an engineer. If that's react, use react. Sure, you might miss some viewers who haven't enabled JS, but if the above comment is representative then they weren't going to give constructive feedback anyhow.

</comment></comment><comment><USER72> Here's another angle - not saying it's correct, just different. Why would you want to perfect working from your bedroom? It's ok to WFH for a while, but i would not recommend perfecting it long term. As a human being you should be looking to interact and socialize with other humans, in person, as well - <USER2> makes us better humans, more empathetic, more understanding to the needs and pains of others.

<comment><USER73> During my worst commute I was spending 4.5 hours traveling to and from work each day. A long day at work meant doing nothing but work, travel, and sleep and still being deprived of sleep. I didn't last six months, and I have no family or anyone to depend on me.

When I worked from home I lived in a difficult climate which became overly pleasant. The worst snow storm didn't bother me in the slightest, if I didn't feel like going outside I just didn't. When bearing the cold became optional, it was a pleasant luxury going outside instead of a chore.

The human interaction you are talking about is real, but so is losing a large chunk of your life getting to work.

<comment><USER72> 4h daily commute is horrific. the alternatives to your solution would be to get another job, closer to home or move closer to the job...just saying.

<comment><USER73> I could also have just won the lottery, just saying.

There are other realities to contend with, like how it looks bad to have a six month job on a resume, or leases that are expensive to break, or how moving when your lease ends to somewhere better to commute to a job you've lost confidence in, or waiting for a vesting cliff and promised raise, or moving far enough away that your friends might as well be in another state...

Not to mention if you have a family or partner.

In the long commute case, much of that was true. I tried to stick it through hard times after they moved offices to be significantly further away and burned out. It happens.

Life isn't always so simple and you can't always optimize your life around your job.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER74> > working from your bedroom

If you read your contract as a remote worker, they often say that you must work from a dedicated work room in your house, so not working from your bedroom. Not sure if there's some specific legal reason for that.

<comment> globular-toast It's pretty unhealthy to spend 90% of your time in one room. For me, the bedroom is for sleeping and sex only. No work happens in there. When I work from home I get dressed like normal and go to my study. Then I'm in work mode.

<comment><USER74> I guess some young people don't have any other space - perhaps literally if they share a house.

<comment><USER75> Studio apartments aren't a thing anymore? Pretty common in Europe and AFAIK not entirely unknown in high-rent Metropolitan areas worldwide (NYC, Tokyo etc.)

<comment><USER74> > Studio apartments aren't a thing anymore?

Where did I claim that? I think you've misread.

I said _some_ young people. How have you expanded that to think I was writing _all_ young people?

Not everyone can afford a studio to themselves. This does not imply studios do not exist.

<comment><USER75> I was more talking about _not just_ young people. Studio apartments/small "bachelor pads" exist outside of pure age brackets or even affordability. Something bigger might not be available if you want to live close enough to work/city centre/etc. and/or it might be more common in your culture (Japan/Europe vs. US).

In other words: I don't see why a one-room situation should be restricted to young people.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: How we reduced our Twilio costs 80% by switching to iMessage - <AUTHOR> https://usebalto.com/developers <comment><USER3> Hi, I've actually tried to run a similar (and now completely shut down) service a few years ago. If you look at my github I have several public iMessage-related projects. The biggest thing I ran into was getting my services rate limited or even blacklisted from iCloud for large periods of time when attempting to scale up. At low scale things worked fine and I am still running some iMessage bots (similar to classic IRC bots) for group chats with some friends without issue.

The only way I was able to mitigate rate limiting and black listing was to use actual physical Macs, only host a low number of users on each Mac, and put each Mac on its own physical internet connection. I also had to rate limit users and prevent them from sending the same message to many recipients as that would cause the machine to get blacklisted. Because of this I determined it would be nearly impossible to scale up without charging exorbitant amounts of money, which you seem to have avoided with your $20/mo rate which seems very reasonable.

Can you share answers to any of these. Totally understand if some of these are secret sauce and you can't answer:

\- how you are preventing or mitigating blacklisting and rate limiting?

\- what are you doing to detect when you are blacklisted?

\- what is your remediation once you've detected that you are blacklisted?

\- how are you handling scaling up your numbers of users?

\- how are you sending/receiving the messages? (I'm curious: did you write your own solution that talks to iCloud services or are you abusing Messages.app and its corresponding SQLite database?)

\- has anyone from Apple contacted you? are they okay with it?

Anyways, cool service, good luck!

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Hi all! Like many people here we wanted to reduce our monthly expenses given the time, and found Twilio to be one of the highest line items. When we dug into the data, we found that 80% of our users were iPhone users and thus could receive iMessages.

Thus we built Balto - an API to send iMessages, and were able to transition our entire customer list successfully (as well as take advantage of iMessage features like unlimited messaging, read receipts, apple pay, etc.)

Would love HN thoughts/feedback! We also have a customer facing version if you're not a developer ([https://usebalto.com/](https://usebalto.com/)) and wrote a blog documenting the journey for those interested ([https://usebalto.com/blog/balto-origin- story%20](https://usebalto.com/blog/balto-origin-story%20)) :)

<comment><USER4> Have you run into any rate limiting on iMessage? We usually see bulk messaging (eg: appointment reminders) getting silently dropped by carriers if over 100 messages are sent from that number in a day.

Additionally, what stops Apple from breaking your service, like so many other unofficial chat APIs?

<comment><AUTHOR> Yup great callout, something we think a lot about. We haven't run into any rate-limiting yet, though are aware that it's a possibility. iMessage returns the date_delivered which has been valid and we send an SMS in those cases.

As for Apple shutting us down, it is a valid concern, although right now the service looks no different than if one were to type out a message on their own device.

Happy to share more details and go through any concerns you might have - <USER2> there's ways we can help with appointment reminders!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> What happens if user has disabled iMessage, does your API notify your enterprise customers with an error?

I can see this useful if the following is possible:

send iMessage, if fail then send text via twilio

But otherwise couldn't see the use case (at least for reliable delivery rate)

<comment><AUTHOR> You're spot on - iMessage returns a date_delivered so we know if it's successful or not, and send an SMS backup via Twilio.

<comment><USER6> Note that the "delivered" indicator in iMessage just tells you when it was delivered to the network, and not the recipient. It's entirely possible to still lose the message after it gets delivered to the network.

The only way you could know for sure if the recipient got the message is if they have read receipts turned on, so that you know when they've actually read the message.

And plenty of people have had problems where they took their cell phone number with them to a non-iPhone device but can never receive iMessages, but they also can't receive regular SMS messages to that number.

There still be plenty of dragons here.

<comment><USER5> > Note that the "delivered" indicator in iMessage just tells you when it was > delivered to the network, and not the recipient. It's entirely possible to > still lose the message after it gets delivered to the network

Is there any reason to believe that in the USA for example iMessages would be 'dropped' at a higher rate than SMS? Put another way, is an iMessage 'delivered' less valuable than an SMS 'delivered'? Curious to hear your thoughts.

<comment><USER6> There is a low limit to the maximum size of an SMS message. Small enough to fit the entire thing plus all meta data easily into a 512 byte UDP packet. Sure, UDP is unreliable, but everyone knows that and you build additional reliability mechanisms on top of that. The SMS protocol is different, but still shares a lot of similarities.

With iMessage, the messages themselves can be much larger, and the larger the message the more likely it may run into packet fragmentation which could easily result in it being silently lost down the road.

With SMS, once the network has accepted the message, I think you have a higher probability that it will actually reach the recipient.

Another factor here is cost — precisely because you pay for SMS messages, the carriers are going to aggressively maximize the delivery probability, because they don't want to lose a single red nanocent. But iMessage is free, so why should anyone care to optimize that for maximum delivery probability?

Then you also run into the other issues noted above, e.g., where someone previously used a given number with an iPhone and then moved to Android. The number is still detected as being iMessage capable, but you can't actually send an iMessage to them on Android.

I guess all I'm really saying is TANSTAAFL — There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.

Oh, and be careful what you optimize for. You may optimize yourself out of a job.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Amazing work! I have been selling a product using a WhatsApp chatbot for some time now. iMessage would be a great addition to this so I will definitely get back to you once I find some more time to work on the project. Great work in getting this setup!</comment>


123-Reg and NamesCo registered millions of .uk domains without asking customers - <AUTHOR> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/09/16/123reg_namesco_uk_domains/ <comment><USER2> Sounds like fraud to me. Charge for something similar to what you're already billing and hope people don't notice.

Around where I live, courts decide differently based on the nature of the enterprise. If a company gets an invoice and pays up, they basically agreed to the charge. That's because companies are expected to understand and check invoices. For private individuals, if they pay an invoice and only later realize that they didn't in fact wanted to pay, the contract that came into being based on their payment can be annulled. And in some cases it leads to charges of fraud. That's not to say that companies can't be illegally defrauded, just that the bars are higher.

In the .uk case, this means companies would have to make sure they didn't pay. But consumers could in fact claim they were tricked and demand restitution even after paying. I don't know how such cases are handled in the UK however.

In any case: Transfer your .co.uk to a reputable registrar. Don't do business with outfits who pull shit like this.

<comment><USER3> Who do people recommend for alternative UK/global registrars? Security is high up my list of priorities, and Cloudflare looks great, but doesn't offer .co.uk domains currently.

<comment><USER4> [https://www.gandi.net/](https://www.gandi.net/) I belive at some point in the past when you ordered a weird TLD on AWS it was fulfilled by gandi on behalf of AWS.

<comment><USER5> Plus one for Gandi, these guys are amazing and follow a clear no bullshit policy [0].

[0] [https://www.gandi.net/en/no-bullshit](https://www.gandi.net/en/no- bullshit)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> We were told that because we had a .co.uk domain with 123-reg, we would get a .uk domain for free for two years. I think there was an option to opt-out but we got the domain.

So clearly emails didn't go out to all customers, customer didn't read the emails or forgot about them.

123-Reg would send a 30 days to renewal email and 7 days to renewal email, maybe they were not sent this time?

</comment><comment><USER7> It seems to me that some of the darkest patterns in the technology field are related to domain name registrars.

<comment><USER8> Low cost of entry maybe Ofcom should have to approve all .uk registrars.

And ICANT should clampdown of some of the dodgy stuff they allow crappy registrars.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> This affair is also bad for any people who would actually like to use .uk domain names: in many cases where the current owner of foo.co.uk doesn't want foo.uk it's effectively increased the period for which the name is reserved from five to seven years (or more if the current owner drops the ball and lets the scummy registrars get away with the autorenew).

<comment><USER10> That explains what's happened for me.

I have a .me.uk domain, and I'd like the .uk. I attempted to register it, and I was charged, but then refunded a few days later. It's currently pointing to a 123-Reg parking page.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Damn thanks for pointing this out! Just canceled the auto-renewal of the two .uk domains they added for me.

</comment><comment><USER8> I wonder what Ivan Pope's (I used to work with him at poptel) thoughts on this are and it does seem that Ofcom have been asleep at the wheel here.

</comment><comment><USER12> Stuff like this will happen as long as Nominet is a for-profit company.

<comment><USER9> Nominet is officially a non-profit company.

The problem is that (like many non-profits) it's being run by people who see the world the way for-profit companies do, and think that it's their job to maximise their surplus rather than act as stewards of the .uk namespace.

So you see the chairman's statement in the annual report saying « In addition to pursuing organic growth, we have a prudent approach to possible acquisitions and investments that will accelerate our strategy and lay the foundations for future growth. »

even though there's nothing in the company's official objectives that says growth is an aim.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Fittingly reported by The Register

</comment><comment><USER14> As much as I dislike 123-reg, they weren't the only ones who did the 'auto- registration' thing. I don't feel like dropping my registrar in it but they did the same (only it was at the end of the .uk reservation period - I gained 2 domain names, both of which ought to belong to clients of mine). I haven't ever checked if they set them to auto-renew in fairness, my account settings are to NEVER auto-renew so I suspect they followed that.

</comment><comment><USER15> > _But, rather than seek to persuade their customers why they should pay for > two .uk domains instead of one, they have simply stuck those domains on > auto-renew._

None of the .uk tld's that were registered on my behalf are set to auto-renew (and I have quite a few .co.uk - and thus .uk - domains too).

Reading past the El Reg's hyperbolic writing style, I suspect what's actually happening here is they were set to not auto-renew _unless_ the customer started altering the settings of the .uk tld. Since I left them alone, they'll just expire. It's still a frustrating anti-pattern and worth reporting on but not the literal scam El Reg are reporting it as.

<comment><USER16> Did you read the comment section? There're examples therein of people confirming the practice, as too at least one person on HN here.

El Reg's house style is very much love it or loathe it, but I think it's unfair to accuse them of being misrepresentative. The Reg has been one of my daily go-to websites since the early 00s purely because I find it trustworthy and not wont to sit in the pockets of the industry it reports on.

<comment><USER15> > _Did you read the comment section?_

There wasn't any other comments when I typed mine.

> _El Reg 's house style is very much love it or loathe it, but I think it's > unfair to accuse them of being misrepresentative._

Why? They have been on other occasions and their writing style is intentionally designed to be exaggerative.

> _The Reg has been one of my daily go-to websites since the early 00s purely > because I find it trustworthy and not wont to sit in the pockets of the > industry it reports on._

I've found in their effort not to "sit in the pockets of the industry" they're bias has shifted too far to the other side where they too quick to pass judgement. Combined with their inflammatory tones, it creates a feeling reminiscent of those armchair critics that claim everything is shit while failing to appreciate the detail of the problem.

<comment><USER16> That's curious. I'd read the Register article before it was posted here and there were comments to that effect - did you too read it before it was posted on HN?

Their writing style is intended to be a bit tabloid in its reading, sure, but i've always figured that's to make otherwise dry reading a bit more engaging. The sum of their analysis is essentially on point. Their cousin, The Inquirer, by contrast is probably less 'exaggerative' as you put, it but is painful to wade through.

As I say - it's a love it or loathe it rag but I don't see them as being overly negative, except where due. I suppose the tone does encourage armchair critics in the comments sections, but then their comments section is second only to HN, I feel, for worthwhile input from people who Know Their Shit.

<comment><USER15> > _That 's curious. I'd read the Register article before it was posted here > and there were comments to that effect - did you too read it before it was > posted on HN?_

Sorry, I was talking about HN comments. To be honest I didn't even realise El Reg had a comments section (though I wouldn't have read them anyway - HN is the only site's comments I read)

> _As I say - it 's a love it or loathe it rag but I don't see them as being > overly negative, except where due._

Their comments regarding OpenSSL weren't. Back when Heartbleed was announced El Reg were heavily critical (as many people were) but they then ratchet up the tone by recommending people use other, largely unproven, cryptography libraries. They've also reported other vulnerabilities as being disastrous - using the same language as they did for Heardbleed and ShellShock - but for vulnerabilities that are purely theoretical and extremely difficult, impractical or even out of scope for 99.999% of consumer devices. El Reg have often been amongst the worst for misrepresenting the real world implications for vulnerability announcements and that's entirely down to the tabloid nature of their reporting.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


After 10 years, this significant Team Fortress 2 bug has been fixed - <AUTHOR> https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/02/after-10-years-this-significant-team-fortress-2-bug-has-been-fixed/ <comment><USER2> Consider this headline. Imagine replacing the word "this" with "a":

After 10 years, a significant Team Fortress 2 bug has been fixed

With "this" it feels like clickbait. With "a" it feels like one of the more boring articles I've seen. Huh.

<comment><USER3> I dunno, it's pretty funny to think that this scenario coexists with millions of bugs whose turnaround was one day, and that was still considered unacceptable by users.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> If there's one thing Valve knows how to screw up, it's hit-boxes.

Playing most of their games at a somewhat competitive level up to 3-4 years ago, I've learned that only too well.

<comment><USER5> Man, hit-boxes in Valve have been wonky since HL1DM.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAP7JqyJwOc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAP7JqyJwOc)

LEAD DANG IT LEAD!</comment></comment>


Mr. Jaynes' Wild Ride (2013) - <AUTHOR> https://meltingasphalt.com/mr-jaynes-wild-ride/ <comment><USER2> I was intrigued by the reputation of this book (The Origins of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind), thinking that it would be "crazy but just might be true". After reading it I'm just baffled by reviews like these, it's as if other people had read a completely different book: it wasn't even really about the nature of consciousness or anything like that, the book's main thesis instead is a very bizarre claim that - and I'm quoting the book here - "according to our theory, we could say that before the second millennium B.C., everyone was schizophrenic.". Literally schizophrenic. And then the writer tries to explain every cultural phenomena of the Bronze Age with hallucinations in a way that is reminiscent of the 'alien astronauts' books of Erich von Däniken. I have a longer review here: [https://mzntrp.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-bicameral-mind- how-i...](https://mzntrp.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-bicameral-mind-how-is-this- still.html)

<comment><USER3> I think you're viewing the book's thesis through a very limited, modern lens.

True or false, I'd frame the hypothesis as "first came language, then came consciousness". Language was shared, something "arose" when people were together. So "the gods" were to point of origin of language.

The reason that kind of hypothesis is appealing is that consciousness and modern thinking had to arise _somehow_. Going from animals with no language to a modern human with self-consciousness and language is a _big_ , a huge step. We need an intermediate step between these. An "everyone is generating language but _not self-consciously_ " period is such a hypothetical step.

None of this is to claim Jaynes' thesis is true. But it's a reason it's appealing and generally not put on the level of Erich von Däniken. The way that pseudo-scientists like von Däniken fail is they explain simple phenomena with more complex, more unexplained phenomena. Jaynes, whatever his faults, is _trying_ not to do that.

<comment><USER2> My impression was very different: to me it seems that the modern fans of the book close their eyes to the blatantly silly parts that make up the vast majority of the book and pretend that it's only really about the 'consciousness as a software' idea that makes up a tiny fraction of it. This quote from Daniel Dennett is very revealing: "Now you might think that if you throw out his account of hallucinations you haven't got much left of Jaynes theory, but in fact I think you would, although he would probably resist throwing that part away" If you throw out the hallucinations part and the stuff built on top of that then 90% of the book is gone, and he kind of admits this. This is like saying that I want to build on Darwin's work from the Origin of Species, but throwing out his account of natural selection.

The Däniken comparison comes from the way in which the writer shows you some ancient painting or statue and then claims that it "obviously" depicts how the king or his servants were controlled by hallucinations. I was having flashbacks to when Däniken was doing the same thing with similar artifacts from the same era saying that it must depict "aliens". And I would argue that the theory of a society where everybody is schizophrenic and sharing a collective hallucination of the king while the king is controlled by a hallucination of the previous king, is more complex and creates more unexplained questions than what it's trying to explain - just like saying "the aliens did it".

<comment><USER3> Basically, you're really still only arguing from "that's ridiculous".

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Ahhh, yet another article about the 20th century book having the most captivating title ever - "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind"!

In all honesty I must admit to a brief period in my early life when I severely doubted that my father exhibited true human consciousness. While never fully resolved, that question opened my mind to the possibility of Jaynes' hypotheses. And so I read the book but found it of little use.

In my middle years copies of "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" became commonly available in used bookstores at the lowest of prices. I bought every copy I found merely for the beautifully-displayed and elegant title and with the growing awareness that perhaps it might serve yet another purpose than display someday.

These days I use the book mostly as a tool, an impediment of sorts, with which I burden the back and mind of unwelcome and overly-inquisitive visitors to my workplace. I feel no qualms in giving them a copy of the book, charging them with the responsibility of giving me a full and detailed review before or upon returning again. To my great delight no one sent away with Jaynes' tour-de- force in hand has reported back!

</comment><comment><USER5> In "The Master and His Emissary", a (usually described as deeply flawed but fascinating) book by Iain McGilchrist about brain organization, the author had an alternative interpretation to address the essential timing problem of JJ's notion, where events around the Iliad are several thousand years too late for the process he describes.

The fascination with JJ's idea is not about his theory, it is about the problem he tried to solve, and that we still have not solved. He offered one idea, and supported it as well as he could with what he had, but discarding his idea takes you no closer to a solution.

Note that the events of the Iliad are around the beginning of the Iron Age, near the time of what historians call The Catastrophe, of c. 1190 BC when all the coastal cities around the Mediterranean (except in Egypt) were sacked, and written records dry up for four centuries. The Iliad was written down sometime after the end of this period, coincidentally around the time coins were first minted. Civilization had already existed for 2000+ years, and had money all along, just no actual currency. The Great Pyramids were already ancient, but still much more impressive-looking than today, because their white facing had not yet been stripped off to build mosques of. But I Digress.

</comment><comment><USER6> Jaynes' book is cited as a major influence on Snow Crash. This article reminded me of the mental note I made to read it when I heard that.</comment>


Feeling Good About the Future of Computer Science - <AUTHOR> https://www.cray.com/blog/feel-good-future-computer-science/ <comment><USER2> My big fear is in our rush to optimize labor/workers for computer science we will make them obsolete soon like most of the other workers in the face of automation and ai.

I feel good about what technology can do, but not for the next generation of computer science or tech workers.

<comment><USER3> I imagine, though, that other workers already displaced by the fruits of our efforts will bask in a little schadenfreude. Live by the sword...

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Because a lot of focus now has been on STEAM programs around the country supporting the fields of science, tech, engineering, art and math. These programs are targeting our children from an early age to gain more interest and attraction for up and coming students. [https://latechnews.org/raymond- ealy-founder-steamcoders/](https://latechnews.org/raymond-ealy-founder- steamcoders/) [https://latechnews.org/stem3-academy-open-house- november-4/](https://latechnews.org/stem3-academy-open-house-november-4/)

</comment><comment><USER5> I don't understand why this is in HN.</comment>


Show HN: We'll help you land that next-level job. No cost until you're hired - <AUTHOR> https://talemark.com <comment><USER2> Interesting, but at a _very_ high cost in my opinion:

 _3% of your first year 's salary only when you get hired. _To celebrate our launch, we're offering 50% off for a limited time only! _

<comment><USER3> IMHO they're offering you help to increase your yearly salary and get a job that you enjoy more, basically risk free. For example, if they increase your salary from 80K/year to 90K/year, they'll get $1350 (1.5%). From a value based perspective, they've more than delivered of solid return on investment. That's more than a 7X ROI in the first year alone. Not to mention the subjective value of enjoying life more from a job you like more.

<comment><USER2> Maybe I'm wrong but it appears to me you tell them what job you are applying for:

"Fill out a form with details about yourself, your background, and the company/position you're applying for. All your information is kept safe and confidential."

Then they create a custom landing page for the job application, give you some tips, and if you get the job they take 3% of your _gross_. If that job is $100k you pay them $3k, after taxes.

On top of that, I do wonder if they are or will start double dipping on the other side, typical recruiters will charge up to 15% of gross salary to the company.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey there, thanks for the comments!

I'll be sharing a post in the near-future that outlines our process and tool/hosting stack so that anyone can put together a website with all our details (sans design and creative direction). Even if you've never built a site, you can copy our procedures directly. If you design/develop/build sites, you don't need us. If you are technical and/or have impressive credentials, you probably don't need us.

Talemark isn't a replacement for recruiters, brute force networking, and LinkedIn Premium. It's for when you're applying for a stretch company or if you're having trouble hearing back from any companies. Some people simply aren't the best candidates in the resume stack, and a unique-domain targeted- content microsite is super useful in provoking a response.

We talked with early friends/family users, and we ended up with 3% as a fair given the ROI for all parties. Not everyone will get the job, and that's factored in. We don't take recruitment fees from employers. Talemark lets you offload the stress to us (free upfront / no risk) and saves you time (you just have to provide the content).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> There seems to be a lot of startups in the hiring place just now. I got contacted the other day, wanting me to a technical test or interview, but they only offered jobs that I was already aware of. No point in using them if I am not getting any extra value as its just another middleman to pay.

</comment><comment><USER5> Assuming you make $100K, $3,000 is your opportunity cost. Oh, plus $10.

That's ~100 coffee meetings (say $20 because it's fancy coffee and bread pudding) with managers and lead engineers at companies you want to work at, including gas and a LinkedIn pro account.

In 100 meetings, you're bound to at least find someone to mentor you, if not hire you right away. Plus make some real connections.

You could also drop a couple hundred on a resume designer if you like, but being detailed on your LinkedIn profile is probably more effective.

Full disclosure: I'm a software consultant who also does recruiting/staffing. But an exceptionally ethical one.

</comment><comment><USER4> How is this any better than a LinkedIn profile? I don't need to pay them $10 to cover domain expenses.

</comment><comment><USER6> Nice service! I've been looking for something like this</comment>