How to increase your chances of finding a hidden camera - <AUTHOR> https://sixfortwelve.wordpress.com/2019/04/06/how-to-increase-your-chances-of-finding-a-hidden-camera/ <comment><USER2> I've been helping a friend update their rental listings online this week (airbnb, homeaway, etc), and after seeing this issue come up, I told him I would specify that there were no cameras in the house. His response "that make's it sound like I have camera's in the house", but I convinced him honesty was a better policy in this regard.

But when we weren't updating the listing, we were installing all kinds of smart home crap. There might not be any camera's, but every room has a google hub / speaker, a thermostat sensor (which looks suspiciously like a camera, particularly after reading this article) & wifi switches.

I don't see a need for any of this stuff. The barely find the 'problems' it solves inconvenient. And when balanced against the privacy implications, I have no interest in a smart home.

But I'm realising now that's going to make many Airbnb's unsuitable. Adding the hidden camera element... it just becomes impossible. If you really care about this issue, are you going to book an airbnb, then unplug every smart device, check for camera's, disable them somehow, and then re-connect everything when you leave?

<comment><USER3> Do you also introduce yourself like:

Hi! I'm Bob, not a murderer.

Otherwise, how people will know that you haven't killed anyone?

<comment><USER4> No, I don't introduce myself that way - that would be crazy.

There is a popular theory that the handshake originated as a way to show your hand wasn't holding a weapon.

I think the evidence for this history is shaky at best, but it's been repeated because it's somehow a compelling idea -- what were people thinking many hundreds of years ago when crime was so common that you genuinely wondered about whether you could trust a casual acquaintance not to hurt you? What did they do to protect themselves?

It doesn't seem unreasonable to wonder about how to present yourself as "safe" in the deeply untrustworthy home-sharing privacy landscape where casual home surveillance is ultra-common (and where neither landlord nor tenant knows how much they can trust the other). I'm not sure there is a good answer and it's not crazy to try to look for one.

<comment><USER5> That sounds very unlikely.

If strangers don't trust each other they show their hands to each other. Till today.

When you get close enough for a handshake the hand can allready hold a knive and is close enough to hurt.

Handshake tells you more about a person after you trust them not to kill you (right now)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> A couple weeks back we were on vacation in Hawaii, and one night at dinner the table of San Diegans next to us was having a rather loud and animated conversation. It seems they had rented out their property back home on Airbnb and they very clearly talked about not disclosing the cameras they had onsite to the tenants.

The tenants had discovered at least the doorbell camera and covered it up, to which the owners were not pleased and were debating calling the police on the tenant.

We were aghast at their complete lack of knowledge regarding undisclosed video surveillance of tenants and the violation of airbnb policy. My wife badly wanted to interject but we let it go. We did talk about how to mitigate these threats, made for some interesting vacation dinner conversation though.

<comment><USER7> If the doorbell camera was facing into the outside, then I am not sure what grounds the tenants have to complain. Hotels and apartments can and do monitor public areas.

<comment><USER8> I'm not sure what grounds the renters have to complain about this either.

Is there some sort of law or rule obligating tenants to keeping the view of cameras unobstructed?

<comment><USER7> Well the camera aren't the tenants property so putting something on top of them like tape would be simple vandalism. They can always obstruct it without touching it.

<comment><USER8> I can't imagine that a tenant temporarily obstructing the view of a security camera qualifies as simple vandalism in my country but maybe you live in a different place.

If that's the case then merely standing in view of the camera would qualify as vandalism as well because you'd be obstructing the view of what is behind you.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Relevant article: How to Find Hidden Cameras and Spy Gear [1] and HN discussion [2].

[1] [https://www.senteltechsecurity.com/blog/post/how-to-find- hid...](https://www.senteltechsecurity.com/blog/post/how-to-find-hidden- cameras/) [2] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18926264](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18926264)

</comment><comment><USER10> I always run the fing app to scan the WiFi at any rental I stay at. It's neat to see what all is connected. I assume if someone is smart enough to properly segment the network or enable AP isolation to hide devices, they've put in the time to do it right.

I also run a rental, and that's has lead to a creep in new smart home devices. It came with a smart Lock and thermostat. I added a zwave card to control the lock remotely. Added motion sensors, doors sensors, leak detectors. It is nice to have such things when random people are staying in a place you own. I use a wyze cam in the basement (locked to renters) to monitor for fire alarms and keep and eye on cleaning folks. But would never install a camera while the unit is rented. I do have one in the off season...as the home sits mostly vacant for 6 months.

</comment><comment><USER11> Besides owners, what about creeps that rent a place then leave devices behind? This affects hotels as well. That's my big fear.

<comment><USER12> Another option is to choose not to be afraid. If one really care, get good at sweeping a place for cameras & remove the fear. If one is too lazy to sweep for cameras (like me!), decide to accept there's a low, non-zero chance that I'll get taped and move on.

"You've got a tape of me? Congratulations! Send me a copy. It's a good thing there wasn't a camera covering all of the apartment. I had a little digestion shenanigans going on, I'm glad there's no evidence I am the one who left that floor. I tried to clean it up, but I didn't have any industrial chemicals."

<comment><USER13> Being secretly taped, esp in intimate moments, is a valid fear that many women have. It has long term repercussions on their life esp when the videos get shared.

I don't actively sweep rooms but I'd be lying if I didn't say I inspected something that looked out of place when staying with the family at hotels and rentals. When I am by myself, I am less paranoid about these issues.

<comment><USER14> a fear isn't made more urgent because a woman has it.

<comment><USER15> No one said it was. It's a fear that men don't as often have (to the same degree) - that doesn't make it any more, _or any less_, urgent.

<comment><USER16> The implication was there though. I suspect that most men simply aren't vigilant about these issues, and so they don't fear it. I'm sure it would bother them too.

<comment><USER17> You also have it backwards.

Men don't fear it as much as women, so they aren't as vigilant.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> The easiest way to find a hidden camera is with a thermal sensor. You can get a used FLIR for around $100. Everything electronic gives off heat...

<comment><USER19> Or just turn off all the lights in the room and use your iPhone camera in live mode - hidden cameras (and their IR emitters) will light up like a Christmas light.

<comment><USER20> Is this an iphone specific thing ? Have you tested it.

<comment><USER21> It's not actually. Most digital cameras pick up infrared light, especially cheaper ones. Maybe not professional cameras, which might have an IR filter for better color accuracy. The filters are not cheap and IR doesn't affect the image quality all that much.

Try it out; point your TV remote at your smartphone camera and push the buttons. You might be able to barely see the light with your eye in dark conditions, but the blinking pattern should be bright and easy to see through your phone.

<comment><USER22> I've tried this; you can definitely pick up the IR light with the front camera of your phone. Rear camera has an IR filter in modern cameras or something.

<comment><USER12> Can confirm. Just saw red light on my TV remote w/ my LG G5. Pretty interesting!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> There is no way I am staying at another Airbnb if there is a hotel.

<comment><USER24> I don't really see the value of AirBNB anyway. At least in Europe it takes hours to find a nice one, then you rate them and they rate you so hardly any rating is very accurate, the places never match exactly the description, and you need to book well in advance to not need a credit card.

My hotel experiences, on the other hand, are usually much nicer. On arrival I look at the maps app on my phone to find hotels near where I want to be at, I see ratings and price ranges, I walk in and can ask to see the room, talk to someone who's always polite and often speaks good English, and pay with debit card and have 0 emails or texts or accounts from anyone about my stay.

AirBNB might be nice if you want a ton of space or for long durations. This is purely as a comparison to hotels. Does anyone have different experiences?

<comment><USER25> AirBNB needs to show rating percentages, i.e. the % of people who _do_not_ leave a rating. Most people do not like to leave negative ratings.

AirBNB (Amazon too) also need to enforce normalized ratings. Another five star review? Either adjust all ratings to an agreed average (e.g. 3 stars) or let users "use up" their 5-star ratings allowance.

<comment><USER26> > Either adjust all ratings to an agreed average (e.g. 3 stars) or let users > "use up" their 5-star ratings allowance.

This doesn't take into account people who are really picky about choosing accommodations and so only stay in listings that are worth of five stars, vs people who are very budget conscious and only stay in listings that are worth 3 stars.

If you normalize these two people's ratings that will give the same 3-star average rating to both marginal and great listings.

<comment><USER25> Depends how you normalize doesn't it?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> AirBnB should require hosts explicitly list the locations of all cameras in plain text in the description and renters should have to explicitly accept that they consent to the surveillance

<comment> munk-a I disagree, they should have a dedicated section for hosts to list out all their cameras and classify them by location. Add some legal nonsense and AirBnB could, at the very least, get all bad acting hosts via a breach of contract if they're caught and local laws don't allow any better prosecution.

And it's absolutely to their benefit, AirBnB has enough publicity problems without being known as a source of scummy videos.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> The article is nice, but some comments look strange:

 _Your experience, and informative blog post is a strong reminder to remain vigilant and aware._

That's... just weird?

Or it's just me being a paranoic with low empathy score?

<comment><USER29> Notice the name of a commenter links back to their blog. It's just not-so- subtle advertising. Post comments on popular blog posts, and maybe someone will click through to look at your stuff. Also often automated.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> What then is the proper response upon finding a hidden camera in an airbnb?

<comment><USER31> Something like this: [https://youtu.be/wyx6JDQCslE?t=133](https://youtu.be/wyx6JDQCslE?t=133)

<comment><USER32> Just gonna add the "kinda NSFW" tag here. Hilarious nevertheless.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Did any HN reader ever find a camera. I typically do a half-hearted scan but never found anything suspicious.

<comment><USER34> Same. Much like card skimmers at ATMs and gas stations. I know they are out there, but I've never found one.

<comment><USER35> Here's a hacker who found a skimmer and reverse engineered it. [0]

[0] [https://trustfoundry.net/reverse-engineering-a-discovered- at...](https://trustfoundry.net/reverse-engineering-a-discovered-atm-skimmer/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> >...or a clear substrate to see through.

Not always. An infrared filter could be used. Silicon sensors are quite sensitive to such wavelengths. So any shiny black surface could be a camera. Sometimes in the right light the filter might look sort of reddish.

<comment><USER37> If this is the infrared sensor I think you mean, you can see these if you point a camera lens (like on your phone) at the surface; it will show up in red. You can try this with TV remotes that use infrared.

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> If the camera is streaming or recording video, then it is likely to be significantly warmer than ambient; a thermal camera (they're not super- expensive these days) should easily reveal hotspots.

</comment><comment><USER39> You could also buy a FLIR device on Amazon (about $200). These devices give off heat. For instance, a smoke detector with a camera would give off a lot more heat than a normal smoke detector.

</comment><comment><USER14> Amazing how seriously people take their privacy when it's AirBnB violating it, but simply accept the systematic privacy violations done by their government.

</comment><comment><USER40> Creepy

</comment><comment><USER41> Scanning isn't going to work if its an IPv6 network. I would just use wireshark and the busy device would probably be your camera it it's on the network.

And probably don't use an IPv6 network if you're the host unless you want to hide a device on the network.

</comment><comment><USER42> Perhaps we should just learn to live with being watched. The corollary is we have to learn to accept others normal human behaviours, so that images of us scratching our arse and then sniffing our fingernails don't really seem remarkable and aren't limiting in job prospects and such ...

Only half joking.

There's a aphorism "if life gives you storms, learn to dance in the rain". If life gives you voyeurs learn to dance naked and not care???

<comment><USER43> That's all well and good until they decide to blackmail you, or post the video on the internet.</comment></comment>


What are Bloom filters? (2015) - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/the-story/what-are-bloom-filters-1ec2a50c68ff#.x11blygds <comment><USER2> Whenever considering a bloom filter also look at cuckoo filters. There are pros and cons of each approach.

See [https://bdupras.github.io/filter- tutorial/](https://bdupras.github.io/filter-tutorial/) and [http://11011110.livejournal.com/327681.html](http://11011110.livejournal.com/327681.html) as well as the corresponding HN discussions [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12124722](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12124722) and [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11795779](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11795779)

<comment><USER3> For that matter, cuckoo hashing [1] in general is an interesting topic. Take a look at its application to cache oblivious dictionaries [2]. They work quite well in practice, especially for space constrained hash tables (e.g. caches).

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckoo_hashing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckoo_hashing)

[2] [https://arxiv.org/abs/1107.4378](https://arxiv.org/abs/1107.4378)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I read about halfway into this article, and when the author started talking about Javascript, the "this" keyword, and the politics about the job, I stopped.

What does that have to do with bloom filters? Get to the point!

<comment><USER5> the post is how he's returning a favor, which he explains in the post, in the "returning the favor" section

<comment><USER6> But that doesn't tell me how Bloom filters work. I don't care about his dinner or what favors he owes, unless he's planning on turning those expository details into a clever metaphor later in the article, or if they really are something that's important for me to understand.

I'm all for educational pieces that are told through a conversation between characters - you can get some creative writing out of that. However, the bug that he's asked to fix, the Polish typographer friend, and the dinner scene are barely connected to the subject. We don't even get a nice technical explanation of why the bug is impossible to fix or what that means with regards to the trade-offs in using Bloom filters.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> There is cool and very quick explanation of bloom filters:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SuTGoFYjZs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SuTGoFYjZs)

</comment><comment><USER8> Bloom filters are beautiful and highly underutilized.

I used a Bloom filter in an interview and they looked at me like it was some form of arcane sorcery.

Isn't this standard in algorithms and data structures courses? Does anyone know if it has been removed from the curriculum?

<comment><USER9> Bloom filters have a lot of problems for critical processes in practice. They are best used when being wrong is a non issue or as a type of cache, but preforming a hash is generally _really_ slow. Also, the way virtual memory works looking up an answer often makes storing the new value much faster.

So, while cool they have generally been replaced by far more useful and less complex topics.

One example is if your looking for duplicates among huge data sets. You farm out your Filter to 1,000 machines merge them, then re run to get a list of possible collisions. Then compare that list. But, well merge sort can do the same thing a little slower, it's a rare problem, and the pathological case for Bloom filters is really bad. So, even if you know about Bloom filters you may go with the simpler idea and be done sooner.

PS: In that example hash speed might mean sorting is actually faster.

<comment><USER10> The place where bloom filters really shine is doing lookups on data where most of the time the data isn't there.

For example, when you load a page on reddit, it has to check for a vote on every single comment on the page to see if you voted on it. Chances are 99% of the time you didn't vote on an item. Using the built in bloom filter in Cassandra, it can very quickly tell if you voted on an item without having to hit the data store most of the time, which saves a ton of time.

(As a side note, there is an extra optimization that makes things even faster -- reddit tracks the last time you voted on anything as an attribute of your user, so if the page is newer than your last vote, it just assumes you couldn't have possible voted on it, skipping the lookups altogether).

<comment><USER9> A list of votes per user per page would also work. ~90% of the time that list would be empty, if it's not your likely going to eventually need to know which specific items where voted on so might as well just load them all.

Further, voting records are just not that big a data structure. Sure, it's much better than a poor implementation and might be a great optimization to bolt onto a different design, but again it's niche with minimal befits when starting from scratch.

Edit: Now, I really want to know how they actually do this.

<comment><USER10> > A list of votes per user per page would also work. ~90% of the time that > list would be empty,

Not really. People tend to vote on one or two things on a page. So you'll have a long list of people who voted on one or two of the 1000+ items, and now you've had to do an extra lookup.

It's a lot faster to just go straight for the votes and take advantage of the bloom filter.

<comment><USER11> You work(ed) at reddit, d(o|idi)n't you?

<comment><USER10> Worked, yes.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Bloom filters originally upset me because I expected the word "Bloom" to refer to an action of the algorithm. Not so someone's name.

I'm fond of Concierge filtering as an easy description of how they work. I view them as a brief conversation with the front desk staff at a hotel to determine if someone is there. "Is anyone here wearing a hat? Is anyone here over 6'? Did anyone come in carrying a briefcase?"

<comment><USER13> >Bloom filters originally upset me because I expected the word "Bloom" to refer to an action of the algorithm. Not so someone's name.

I thought Canny edge detection had to do with the fact that the edge detector was canny.

<comment><USER14> There ought to be a list of surprisingly-eponymous things like Page rank, Killing vector, Poynting vector, ...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> If you like hash functions and Bloom filters, you'll also enjoy Jon Bentley's description of the original UNIX spell(1) utility, which ran in 64KB by representing its dictionary as a sparse bitmap.

<comment><USER16> Is this in programming pearls? Otherwise where?

<comment><USER15> I saw it in a column in Comm. of the ACM a long time ago, sorry.

<comment><USER17> McIlroy's "Development of a Spelling List" (1982) paper is doi:10.1109/TCOM.1982.1095395 available at [https://web.archive.org/web/20120324185456/http://unix- spell...](https://web.archive.org/web/20120324185456/http://unix- spell.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/McIlroy_spell_1982.pdf) . I found it from [https://code.google.com/archive/p/unix- spell/](https://code.google.com/archive/p/unix-spell/) , which also says:

> It is interesting to note that one of the world's best compressor (paq8l) > can compress the 250kb word list down to 48.5kb, less than the space taken > by the lossy compression methods proposed in the paper! For comparison, > regular modern compression methods (such as gzip, lzma etc) only achieve > twice that size (85-90kb).

Bentley's commentary is in "A Spelling Checker", CACM 28(5): 456-462 (1985), doi:10.1145/3532.315102 , behind the paywall at [http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=315102&dl=ACM&coll=DL&CFID...](http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=315102&dl=ACM&coll=DL&CFID=803658785&CFTOKEN=18698707) and in the book "Programming Pearls", Second Edition, according to [http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3846](http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3846) .

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> He takes a long time to get to the point, doesn't he?

</comment><comment><USER19> OpenAM uses bloom filters to blacklist sessions. Neil has a nice write up here:

[https://neilmadden.wordpress.com/2016/02/25/stateless- sessio...](https://neilmadden.wordpress.com/2016/02/25/stateless-session- logout-in-openam-13/)

[Disclaimer, I work for ForgeRock]

</comment><comment><USER20> I also have researched this topic lately. You can look at my scientific results. [https://github.com/m00dy/BloomFilter](https://github.com/m00dy/BloomFilter)

</comment><comment><USER21> Brilliant! I never anticipated Bloom filters would be so simple. What comes to my mind is that for "forgetful" Bloom filters, one could remove a hash from the table, also erasing all equivalent entries from the memory. Is this a useful trade-off in practice?

<comment><USER22> No, it isn't.

The problem here would be that you'd be essentially invalidating arbitrary hashes from the table with each operation where they share the same "row" (or address in a bitmap) with other hashes.

Suppose we have a table such that "foo", "bar", "baz" all have overlapping entry -- if we attempt to remove any of them, we'd remove the rest also.

This being said, you might be interested in `Counting filter' instead, which support delete operations.

[0] - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom_filter#Counting_filters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom_filter#Counting_filters)

<comment><USER21> Thanks. That's what I meant with deleting "equivalent entries", I was wondering if there are cases where that would still be a net gain. But it makes sense that there are more specialized versions for such things.

PS I don't understand why my comment was downvoted, is there something wrong with asking such questions here?

<comment><USER23> _I don 't understand why my comment was downvoted, is there something wrong with asking such questions here?_

Not AFAIK, but sometimes people downvote questions that are based on misunderstandings or false premises. Give it some time and you'll probably be voted back up to where you started.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Understanding Bloom filters helps you understand Count-min sketch. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Count%E2%80%93min_sketch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Count%E2%80%93min_sketch)

</comment><comment><USER25> This was a god-awful pain to read. Meanders around the point of bloom filters endlessly.

</comment><comment><USER26> Fyi... the previous discussion about venison glazed in honey (or was it bloom filters? I can't remember for sure):

(July 2015) [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9918365](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9918365)

</comment><comment><USER27> Ah, another article about Bloom filters on HN.

That reminds me, does anyone know if Windows 10 uses bloom filters? Specifically, if I have a folder with a lot of files inside and I paste a file into it, if the file name is different from all the names of the files in the folder, it is nearly instant (true negative, no further testing needed) but if the file name matches one of the names, it takes significantly longer (true or false positive of bloom filter -> check all files manually for a match).

It's just something that's been going through my mind lately when I moved files.</comment>


From Linux to Windows 10: Why did Munich switch and why does it matter? - <AUTHOR> https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-to-windows-10-why-did-munich-switch-and-why-does-it-matter/ <comment><USER2> Earlier discussion:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15779226](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15779226)

</comment><comment><USER3> To be honest, without a strong political or ideological motivation to do so, it's hard to see why any government organisation would use Linux on the desktop, or how they would justify it. Cost, perhaps, but that's always going to be difficult to really quantify, because what you save in licensing fees, you might end up spending on the migration process, hiring expert contractors, retraining users, etc.

Since you're funded by taxes anyway, you're inevitably less motivated by purely economic concerns than by the quality and efficiency of the service you can provide. While I frequently see people defend desktop Linux and LibreOffice against hyperbolic claims about their inadequacy, I don't often see people promoting them as _more_ usable for the everyday user than Windows 10. Other than the Windows 8 debacle, Microsoft keeps the happy-path of a typical business-user workflow in decent shape.

Of course, a plan to migrate every computer to Windows is just that: a plan. And IT plans have a bad habit of colliding messily with reality. It seems more likely that, by 2023, Munich will have a lot of computers running Windows 10, a lot still running LiMux, and a lot still running old versions of Windows. Or maybe the political landscape will have shifted again, and they'll be in the middle of a switch to Apple, Chrome OS, Ubuntu, or who knows what?

</comment><comment><USER4> I believe the one sentence about ms moving its german headquarters to munich last year should have been expanded.

I wonder if ms moving its hq and everything that comes with it sped up someones decision making.

<comment><USER5> Is it really that hard to believe that a Windows-based infrastructure is better for a city government?

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> "...obsolete, partially unsafe, usually extremely cumbersome IT, leading to lots of wasted time and productivity".

That is an excellent short description of Linux. The kernel is fine, but the distros and application software are mostly garbage.

Linux needs an absolute asshole to take charge of everything other than the kernel. His/her favourite word must be "no", as in, "No you shrinking violet, your code is crap and it needs to be totally rewritten. Get outta my distro."

A Steve Jobs of Linux to tell people to make it "just work" and point out the parts that are pure garbage (over 90% at this point.)

It is not clear whether a benevolent dictator can exist in an open-source world. But someone needs to try.

<comment><USER7> That's just bullshit. The design committee of the major DEs/distros are already that benevolent dictator. What have you tried that you found it was mostly garbage? I used Unity just fine for about 5 years until the recent switch to GNOME and then I went to Fedora KDE, and was surprised at how solid it is. Maybe its just you/your hardware?

<comment><USER8> KDE and GNOME are over-engineered, there's too much complexity in the wrong places and this leads to confusion.

More specifically, KDE has too many configuration options, while GNOME is dictating how one has to do things.

As an example:

> "Documents is a document manager application designed to work with GNOME 3. > It's included in the default set of core applications since GNOME 3.2."

The file system has been used for decades as a document manager, why is this in the set of CORE applications ?

<comment><USER9> The complexity you denigrate in KDE is the result of its massive configurability. The average joe might find it offputting, but I like being able to completely control my environment. I suppose that mirrors Linux in general.

If Linux had to be dumbed-down to make it a generally acceptable desktop environment, something else would invariably arise in its niche. I think things are just fine as is with MacOS as Unix for the masses, and Linux as unix for hackers.

<comment><USER8> Do not misunderstand me, I do not want to denigrate anything, as I appreciate the potential of configurability, but this is not the average case of a public employee.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Open source is good for things programmers like writing. Kernels, databases, game engines, etc. Fails completely when it comes to UIs.

<comment><USER11> I disagree with this. Take a look at KDE Plasma, I think it has one of the best desktop UI out there.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> LiMux? Did these guys make their own distro specifically for the city?

<comment><USER13> Yes: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiMux](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiMux)</comment></comment>


We make the world - <AUTHOR> http://micho.biz/we-make-the-world/

<comment><USER2> Great words. I really loved reading it :) . What kind of stuff are you building?</comment>


Ask HN: New site to help with "where to go for dinner?" - <AUTHOR>

Cooked up Eatbite (http://www.eatbite.com) to help me decide on "where to go for dinner / what to order."  Taking a slightly different approach than Yelp, Zagats, etc in focusing only on pictures of food.  NYC-only for now, but I'd be interested to hear any suggestions and ideas!  Obviously an early prototype... <comment><USER2> Nice photos but where's the information about the restaurants? Until you add that, it's pretty but not useful.

<comment><AUTHOR> buckpost -- great point. the site's actually all about providing restaurant info (i.e. when you click "bite"). however, I have it as a feature that's only enabled after you've signed up... my bad for not making this apparent.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> like the idea.

i'm definitely a believer that the "restaurant/food reviews" space is underdeveloped. Yelp and Citysearch have great reach, but I feel like its not giving me what I want.

Check out: <http://www.dishola.com/></comment>


Database of last words of Texas execution victims - <AUTHOR> http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/executedoffenders.htm

<comment><USER2> Wow, that's some powerful stuff. Just scrolling through and clicking randomly, it seemed like half of them maintained their innocence until death.

I don't have any strong opinions about the death penalty but it seems like executing even one innocent person would make it worth thinking about getting rid of it.

<comment><USER3> I'm in favor of the death penalty, though not rabidly so. I do think we should strongly scrutinize how these verdicts are arrived at. In trying to research whether they are fair, I've found people arguing statistics both ways.

I don't think I agree with your statement, however. It IS terrible to execute an innocent person. However, you're assuming that bad outweighs whatever good may be done by executing the guilty. Whether there IS any good done is arguable, but until you determine that, you're saying "Pros - Cons < 0" without knowing the value of the pros.

The fact that prisoners maintain their innocence is really not surprising. I think this is a basic fact about human nature: we are frequently dishonest, especially when trying to maintain a positive view of ourselves. This quote from "How To Win Friends and Influence People" gives a striking example to make that point:

<quote> When Crowley was captured, Police Commissioner E. P. Mulrooney declared that the two-gun desperado was one of the most dangerous criminals ever encountered in the history of New York. "He will kill," said the Commissioner, "at the drop of a feather."

But how did "Two Gun" Crowley regard himself? We know, because while the police were firing into his apartment, he wrote a letter addressed "To whom it may concern." And, as he wrote, the blood flowing from his wounds left a crimson trail on the paper. In his letter Crowley said: "Under my coat is a weary heart, but a kind one -- one that would do nobody any harm."

A short time before this, Crowley had been having a necking party with his girl friend on a country road out on Long Island. Suddenly a policeman walked up to the car and said: "Let me see your license."

Without saying a word, Crowley drew his gun and cut the policeman down with a shower of lead. As the dying officer fell, Crowley leaped out of the car, grabbed the officer's revolver, and fired another bullet into the prostrate body. And that was the killer who said: "Under my coat is a weary heart, but a kind one -- one that would do nobody any harm." </quote>

<comment><USER4> <http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/cases/usa-troy-davis>

I think your point on human nature applies equally to those executing a justice system. Capital punishment shows arrogance.

<comment><USER3> Yes, judges and juries are also flawed humans. But by that logic, executing a justice system _at all_ shows arrogance. If you have convictions, try as you might, you will have some false convictions.

Imagine you have convicted someone of multiple cold-blooded murders and believe they would murder again. You realize that it's possible the conviction was in error, but you've done your best to investigate, present and argue the evidence, and the jury was unanimous.

What now? Imagine you keep this person in jail for 70 years until their death. Was that kinder than executing them? Is it worse to die, or to live every day in captivity for 70 years? Yes, you retained the ability to reverse the conviction while they were alive, but that ability has an expiration date. Once they're dead, you have given them a life of suffering instead of death. Even if you reverse the conviction during their life, you may have deprived them of decades of free life. You can't give that back.

This issue is tricky. I can respect opinions on both sides. And I don't think it helps to say "my opponents in this debate are arrogant."

<comment><USER4> My bad.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> The term "execution victims" strongly implies that these executions were wrongful (or that all executions are).

"Executed inmates" would have been a factual description.

<comment><USER5> All executions are murders as are war casualties.

The definition of murder was "manipulated" around the time of the second world war to include the world "unlawful".

Find an old dictionary (circa 1930) and look up the definition of murder. It mentions only a "premediated killing".

This is an unpopular opinion, especially with the "perpetual war" that we have to endure, but if you kill another person regardless of the justification, even if it's your job, or they wronged you, then you are a murderer. That includes the people who perform the executions and all soldiers. Putting a label on it or changing semantics doesn't make it ok.

(This was downvoted immediately obviously by a supporter of murderers)

<comment><USER6> That is interesting, but "murder" has a clear definition in 2011, and I don't think that using the 1930 definition in 2011 clarifies communication.

Of course, there are valid moral points to be made here, but if you want to make those you should make an ethical argument, not just play semantic games. (Please don't, it's way off topic on HN.)

<comment><USER5> I won't go further than to say that when semantics are change by politics, we all lose. Legitimising murder in the name of war and justice is a slippery slope.

"An-eye-for-an-eye-for-an-eye-for-an-eye ... ends in making everybody blind." (Ghandi).

<comment><USER7> It's sometimes necessary to use violence in order to create disincentives for it, and discourage others from engaging in it.

Ghandi is a good guy and all, but he isn't always right:

 _I would like you to lay down the arms you have as being useless for saving you or humanity. You will invite Herr Hitler and Signor Mussolini to take what they want of the countries you call your possessions...If these gentlemen choose to occupy your homes, you will vacate them. If they do not give you free passage out, you will allow yourselves, man, woman, and child, to be slaughtered, but you will refuse to owe allegiance to them._ \- Ghandi, 1940

<comment><USER8> As a side note, it's spelled Gandhi, not Ghandi.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Man. I'm all teared up reading those, and I haven't even left for work yet. Definitely bound to be a depressing day.

<comment><USER10> Yes ... they're very powerful words knowing that the person that uttered them chose them as the last thing they'd ever say. I'm also surprised at how many of them mentioned that they could "feel it coming".

I don't think I'm going to get much done today either.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I'm the only one amused by the fact that out of 475 exections there are only 2 women?

</comment><comment><USER12> powerful.

it brings me tears to see people express their love to the same person, twice, three times...

i just don't know...</comment>


Show HN: No Code Founders – Slack Community - <AUTHOR> http://www.nocodefounders.com <comment><AUTHOR> Hi all

I had been struggling to connect with other founders building without code and decided to setup a Slack group to see if there is anyone else out there in the same position.

So I've set up a Slack group called No Code Founders with the hope of it being a place where like-minded business owners and makers who are building products without code can come together to share tips, questions, best practices and support each other's launches and growth. While there is a channel for technical questions, a lot of the chat will be about "everything else" related to building products without code. e.g. launching, marketing, scaling etc. The community has grown very quickly and it would be great to connect with more no code founders and makers.

To start with, I've just added a few channels for discussion. These are: \- Introductions - for saying hello \- General - for talking about anything no- code related \- Lets-Work - for sharing work progress, to-dos and questions \- Showcase - for showing off and helping others get their product out there

New channels can be added as we go. Are there any more that could be useful initially? If so, just let me know below.

I've built this on Slack to keep things simple as I know a lot of us already use it.

Let me know if there is anything else you would like to see added.

Thanks

</comment><comment><USER2> Awesome! I just signed up</comment>


Demystifying Data Science - <AUTHOR> https://thisismetis.com/demystifying-data-science <comment><AUTHOR> You have to register to watch the recordings, unfortunately.

Edit: And even then, they aren't yet available. October 6 is the guarantee. I regret posting this.</comment>


ACMEv2 beta (v0.2.1) now available - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/hlandau/acmetool/issues/322 <comment><AUTHOR> For me, great news, because of the End-Of-Life plan for ACME v1 for LetsEncrypt: [https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/end-of-life-plan-for- acm...](https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/end-of-life-plan-for-acmev1/88430)

> In November of 2019 we will stop allowing new account registrations through > our ACMEv1 API endpoint. Existing accounts will continue to function > normally.

> In June of 2020 we will stop allowing new domains to validate via ACMEv1.</comment>


Breaking carpal tunnel syndrome - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@tygertec/breaking-carpal-tunnel-syndrome-8339b576b309 <comment><AUTHOR> For those without a Medium subscription: [https://www.tygertec.com/beating- carpal-tunnel/](https://www.tygertec.com/beating-carpal-tunnel/)</comment>


Run your own job board - <AUTHOR> http://www.jobberbase.com

<comment><USER2> aren't all of these separate job board sites diluting the results for employers? if i were to post a job opening, i'd want to expand my reach for candidates, not shrink it by only posting to a low-traffic niche site.

maybe someone should make a service that can spam a single job opening to the dozens of new job boards popping up (jobs.37signals, crunchboard, jobs.joelonsoftware, etc.)

<comment><USER3> Niched job boards are good if they are run by professionals from those niches -- and jobberBase aims to help those people start such job boards. Large recruitment websites can be too general and it becomes very hard to filter out the noise they bring.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Jobberbase are belong to us?

(What? It's not like any real discussion was happening in here.)</comment>


What Happens When You Drop A Magnet Inside A Copper Tube [video] - <AUTHOR> http://digg.com/video/what-happens-when-you-drop-a-magnet-inside-a-copper-tube <comment><USER2> Yup, it's pretty cool. This was one of the most impressive demo's my physics professor did in our freshman physics class. The point is that as the magnet is falling through the copper tube it creates an electric current which then creates a magnetic field in the opposite direction of the magnet's movement. In other words, this is the practical application of the Right Hand Rule [1].

Two fun facts about it: first, if you cut a small notch along the length of the tube, this will not happen as the current cannot go around the tube.

Second, imagine a superconducting tube with an extremely powerful magnet right in the center of it. Now, try to get the magnet out without cutting the tube.

[1] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right- hand_rule](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-hand_rule)

Edit: Of course, there's nothing special about the tube being made of copper. Any conducting substance will do.

<comment><USER3> Could this be used as a kind of elevator tech? I'd love to ride one of these down a gigantic copper tube.

It'd be completely impractical, of course, but a whole lot of fun.

<comment><USER4> You could probably use eddy-current brakes as a safety system for elevators. Many roller coasters use eddy-current brakes.

It would take a hell of a lot of magnets to strap to a person to allow them to jump down a copper pipe though.

<comment><USER5> Another fun example of braking are the electrodynamic tethers [1], in which you (a satellite) are the copper tube and the entire earth is the magnet!

[1] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrodynamic_tether](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrodynamic_tether)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Original link: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keMpUaoA3Tg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keMpUaoA3Tg)

This digg page is blogspam.

<comment><USER7> The problem with the youtube link however is that any video with 'magnet' in the title brings you uncomfortably close to thousands of youtube nutters posting about perpetual motion machines.

<comment><USER8> s/problem/feature

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Lenz's Law in action, lots of good demos online, or take any strong magnet and move it rapidly while in close proximity to any non-magnetic conductor (brass, copper, aluminum, etc.) You can feel the force exerted by the generated field. Automobile speedometers used to operate on this principle.

</comment><comment><USER10> Here is a much more informative video: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqdOyxJZj0U](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqdOyxJZj0U)

<comment><USER11> He has a bunch of really good videos

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> be very careful when handling such powerful magnets - if you have something metalic on you, they might jump off the table and smack you really hard. bones will be broken.

<comment><USER2> Fingers will also be pinched and possibly broken.

<comment><USER13> The latch on our clothes dryer broke; the door would no longer snug up and maintain the seal or necessary pressure for the safety switch. I now have a 2x2x1" rare earth magnet holding the door shut against the dryer frame. Its strong enough to keep the door snug, but I can still open the dryer door with a good tug.

I'm not sure why I had a 2x2x1" neodymium magnet laying around, but I'm glad I did.

<comment><USER14> > I'm not sure why I had a 2x2x1" neodymium magnet laying around, but I'm glad > I did.

The same reason why there's beer in the fridge, condoms in the night stand and a guitar pick in your pocket: just in case.

<comment><USER13> You live a far more exciting life than me. Although mine might be more surreal.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I can only begin to imagine how much a piece of copper tubing that thick costs. That's a _lot_ of copper.

<comment><USER16> A kg is about $7 at the moment it seems, so suppose that's 5 kg then $35.

<comment><USER15> That's it? I was under the impression that copper was far more expensive and is the reason why expresso machines are as expensive as they are.

<comment><USER17> Copper compared to many metals isn't particular expensive per KG, it is just _relatively_ expensive in the class of metals that we use a crapload of (for example aluminimum is around $1.8 per KG) it is still much cheaper than tin at ~$22.

The main reason that copper is so valuable is it has so many uses and is very easily recycled(I saw an estimate that said 80% of all the copper ever mined is still in use) so holds it's value (You often get 90-95% of its commodity value for recycling).

<comment><USER18> This.

Copper is always in demand, has a bajillion uses, and can be scrapped and reworked very easily. This is why you hear about meth heads stripping copper wiring out of old homes. It's not that the copper is incredibly precious. It's that the copper is so easily liquefied into cash at any number of one-stop, no-questions-asked destinations.

Copper is expensive as a building or product material, not in and of itself, but in relation to many of the alternatives in any given application. Small differences in component costs, scaled over large supply chains, add up to huge differences in margin at the macro level.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Yet another demo: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s9I8OI82Ag](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s9I8OI82Ag)

<comment><USER20> The interesting part is that NMR magnets often have a second magnet within them that creates an opposing force _outside_ of the bore of the NMR (or at least they used to do it that way).

If you notice on the video the yellow chain which keeps ferrous metals away from the instrument isn't really that far away. Also, when he drops the aluminum disc, it actually starts to accelerate after falling only a foot.

Because of the "counter" magnetic field produced, NMRs have a much small/weaker _external_ magnet field that you'd expect.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> This effect gets used in modern trains and roller coasters in the form of linear eddy current brakes. In practice, this looks like an electromagnet that's held just over the rail.

More reading: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_current_brake](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_current_brake)

<comment><USER22> With electromagnet and iron rail the same effect is used for almost an century on streetcars under the name "electrodynamic brake". Idea is that single assembly combines this for small braking strengths and friction braking for complete stop (the electromagnet is on springs and can come into complete contact with rail, which is used as equivalent of parking brake).

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> So it's ok to post links to third party instead of the original content now ? here's the link to the video instead of this portal profiting from it: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keMpUaoA3Tg](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keMpUaoA3Tg)

</comment><comment><USER24> Another cool physics experiment: What happens when you wring out a wet cloth in space?

Here's the answer: [http://youtube.com/watch?v=KFPvdNbftOY](http://youtube.com/watch?v=KFPvdNbftOY)

<comment><USER25> As much as i like that video nothing will top his special version of Bowie - Space Oddity

This might also pique you interest [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dQJBBklpQQ](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dQJBBklpQQ)

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> He had the large square magnet and the large round one within arms reach of each other so that he could swap them with one hand without walking away. That kind of freaks me out a little.

</comment><comment><USER27> most impressed by the fact that someone actually got people to click on a digg link

</comment><comment><USER28> I am impressed that Digg has gone through no less than 2 facelifts since v4.

</comment><comment><USER29> What I want to know is where did he get that freaking awesome copper tube??

<comment><USER30> Agree. I'd love to have one of those.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> If you think that's cool you should have a look at this frog:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1vyB-O5i6E&list=PL8E7ED16454...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1vyB-O5i6E&list=PL8E7ED16454FE1C63)

The physics behind this are explained here: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_levitation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_levitation)

</comment><comment><USER32> Where can you buy something like that. A magnet is around 150$, but I have no idea where to get a copper tube of that thickness.

<comment><USER2> You really don't need anything as fancy. A small magnet and a narrow aluminum tube will do just fine. It won't be quite as impressive, but drop a pebble from the same height not through the tube and watch the delay for the magnet dropping. A four foot length of tube about 1/2 to 3/4 inch in diameter would do nicely.

Edit: try cast iron if you must have a big pipe. It's likely to be much cheaper. The thickness shouldn't make much of a difference either, so maybe even a cooking pot with a cut off bottom would work.

<comment><USER33> Iron is ferromagnetic, so the magnet will stick to the tube and not fall through.

<comment><USER2> Ah, but of course you are right. Then aluminum it is!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> If magnet was not rotated when dropped through the tube, would it simply stick to one wall in case of slightest imbalance?

<comment><USER35> I can't clearly remember my psychics class, But I think I'd fall a bit faster, as the movement through the pipe is considerable as well.

<comment><USER36> I don't think the spinning should have any effect on the speed. Only the vertical movement would create eddy currents. It could be he does it to keep the magnet stable as it falls (like spin on a football).

<comment><USER37> In the last drop he doesn't spin it and it seems to fall at the same speed, it also wobbles and hits the side, so I think you're right

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> Eddy currents are also used in exercise equipment with "magnetic resistance".

[http://www.bicycleman.com/recumbent-exercise- bikes/images/Ma...](http://www.bicycleman.com/recumbent-exercise- bikes/images/Magnetic-recumbent-bike-ECB.jpg)

</comment><comment><USER39> For a similar effect using an MR scanner see the link below. I have done similar with an old door stop. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxC- AEC0ROk](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxC-AEC0ROk)

</comment><comment><USER40> I wonder, with a tube that is of sufficient thickness and a magnet of sufficient strength, would it be possible to levitate the magnet inside the tube?

<comment><USER41> The best way to do it is with a superconducting magnet.

And no, it doesn't quite levitate, but it takes a very long time for it to fall through. I think the video we watched in high school physics class had it take about fifteen seconds to go an inch and a half.

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_current](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_current)

</comment><comment><USER43> Hey, would it levitate there if the tube was spinning? It falls back and forth when he rotates it...

<comment><USER44> > Hey, would it levitate there if the tube was spinning?

If the tube were spinning, the magnet would begin spinning also, but it wouldn't levitate.

</comment></comment><comment><USER45> Is that The Orb playing in the background? EDIT: or maybe Atomic Skunk? It sounds familiar.

</comment><comment><USER46> Wonder for how long the magnet needs to fall until it is completely demagnetized.

<comment><USER47> Why should it. The energy is supplied by gravity.

<comment><USER46> As magnet falls, it is slowed down, this drag is created because magnetic forces are resisting gravity. So after some time, magnet loses that force, I just wonder how long does it take. It can't fall slowly like that forever.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> All I could think of was the cost of that copper tube. Wow that is thick.

</comment><comment><USER49> Ooh eddy currents!

</comment><comment><USER50> The slinky trick is better [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCMmmEEyOO0](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCMmmEEyOO0)

</comment><comment><USER51> Spooky.</comment>


Hacking iOS Camera in Objective C - <AUTHOR> http://blog.denivip.ru/index.php/2012/07/handling-camera-in-ios-applications/?lang=en <comment><USER2> Not much "hacking" involved in TFA. I'd call it more an overview of using the iOS-device camera via the standard SDK.</comment>


Ask HN: How to develop software that could be run on a spaceship? - <AUTHOR>

How to create a software that is so reliable and stable that it would use very limited processing power and recover from all(most all) failures. So I thought the one true challenge for software is when it has to run on a spaceship!<p>What tools and development strategies could one use today to achieve such a goal?<p>(Note: This is not about spaceship software in particular but how "lessons learned" from spaceship software development could be valuable for non-spaceship software) <comment><USER2> Food for thought : [http://spinroot.com/p10/](http://spinroot.com/p10/) (2006)

From people who are actually writing code for spaceship and exploration robot.

However, I am not sure how applicable are these kind of advices to other domains. I am working on critical medical devices, so we are already following most of these recommendations, but if you are designing a website managing millions of users, the advices would look totally different. It would be silly to write everything from scratch in C without any kind of dynamic memory allocation.

I am not convinced the former is necessary _better_ or more challenging than the latter, it is just a different context.

<comment><AUTHOR> The criteria for software quality that this is mainly about are reliability and efficiency ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_quality#Measurement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_quality#Measurement)). I think these are important for all software domains.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Margaret Hamilton [0] coined the term "software engineering" to describe the standard to which for Apollo had to be designed, written and tested. It was a high standard because her team was embedded in a larger engineering culture of engineering excellence where shortcuts and being in love with one's own ideas meant people might die needlessly.

Adopting that attitude may be a place to start.

Good luck.

[0]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Hamilton_(scientist)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Hamilton_\(scientist\))

</comment><comment><USER4> Around 26 years ago, I developed firmware for geosynchronous satellites in a "safe" subset of Ada87. I still think it's a wonderful language and wish there were more opportunities to develop with it. Since then, I've worked solely in C and assembly.

</comment><comment><USER5> Money. Time helps.

Creating reliable software-intensive systems is something we know how to do, we have repeatedly done it in the past, and we are doing in the present. Only problems are it ain't cheap in terms of money or time, so to be cost effective, the costs associated with failure or malfunction must be high.

Safety critical systems (where human health can be endangered by system failures and malfunctions) are one such system. They're usually developed under some sort of regulatory oversight (e.g., FAA, FDA). There are a set of minimal government standards that must be met, much of these related to documentation, and much of the documentation relating to risk analysis and quality management. There are also standards administered by industry groups ---often, these are "voluntary" in name but for liability reasons practically required (in my experience). There's going to be some sort of (mandated) monitoring of the product after release (which feeds into the quality system) to correct design flaws, defects, etc. You have regulatory affairs people on staff to handle this area. The safety critical system itself is developed under some sort of formal product lifecycle management system. There will be a formal set of requirements. Early in the process, there will be a risk analysis (continually updated) of the design. There will be an a priori development plan, timeline, and cost estimates. As for development models, the waterfall model is alive and well, in part because it coöperates with the demanding documentation requirements; waterfall does seem to be on the decline in favor of more agile models (but not too agile!).

The software itself may be assembler if you're really resource constrained, but more likely, it will be C or C++ with a restrictive coding standard, or real-time Java, or possibly Ada. If you're fancy (and progressive), there might be a system model with automatic code generation. The tooling you adopt (e.g., from Atego) will assist with verification and validation, as well as requirements traceability. Most people, I think, find software work under these conditions to be boring and frustrating---it's certainly limiting. You're maybe generating 100 SLOC a day? The system is almost certainly running on some sort of real-time OS like vxWorks or QNX, and the hardware, software, and any associated libraries are (as much as possible) validated for use for your application. You can, given the right circumstances, use COTS software (a.k.a. SOUP, software of unknown pedigree), but then the validation becomes your responsibility.

The HN crowd hates it, but in my experience on these sorts of projects, degrees and certifications are required and expected except at perhaps the very lowest level of employees. Electrical and mechanical designs are probably stamped by a real engineer; depending on the nature of the software portion (and where it's being developed) the software design might get stamped too, but more likely, it's being supervised by someone with a bunch of industry- relevant certifications.

I've glossed over a ton, and skipped even more.

In my opinion: I think that the most important lesson to learn from safety critical projects (and good engineering practice in general) is that tools are not the major driver of quality: proper engineering processes and quality management are the driver of quality. A "right-sized" product lifecycle management plan, including a "right-sized" quality system are critical and necessary to predictably and reliably produce a quality product. All else being equal, I'd predict that a C application developed under a lightweight PLM and QMS will be superior to one developed under Agile and Rust, or Scrum and Haskell, or whatever the du jour fad might be.

<comment><USER2> I agree on 90% of your post and detailed description.

However, on the conclusion, I am fairly convinced that the process is necessary but not enough to produce reliable system. I would say the most important parameter is "People".

If you have a team where people trust each other, where you can report odd issues without fear of reprisal, where people really want to deliver something safe, it will work, otherwise, with a dysfunctional team, using the exact same process, you'll get a terrible mess.

<comment><USER5> I did neglect people and am wrong in doing so; I think what you say is absolutely correct.</comment></comment></comment>


ASK HN: Feedback on my 9,356th attempt at a niche business. - <AUTHOR> http://aplanofattack.com

<comment><USER2> A. Fewer words, more action or pictures. You've heard this already.

B. Wordsmithing. You need a copy editor, with a degree in English or its moral equivalent, to go over every line of this with you. Let's take apart just the third sentence:

 _Probably depends on how good of a designer you are!_

"How good of a [X]" is a very awkward phrase in print. It might work in very casual spoken English, but in print it looks amateurish. Starting a sentence with "probably" is likewise too casual. Your customer base is made of designers. They often care about such details.

You should also consider avoiding the exclamation point. Heed the words of Elmore Leonard: "You are allowed no more than two or three exclamation points per 100,000 words of prose."

Now, having marginally improved the sentence by changing it to something like:

 _It probably depends on how talented a designer you are._

...you should delete this sentence altogether, because it is an _awful_ sales pitch. You are, literally, questioning the skill of your prospective customer. Let me translate this opening:

 _If people aren't paying you $200 to $500 to design simple things, you probably suck!_

Guess what? Your prospective customer is probably _not_ currently being paid $200 to $500 for custom Facebook pages. If your customer already knew how to build these pages, he or she would not be shopping for your product. So your opening pitch can be further distilled to:

 _Dear customer: You suck!_

Ouch. Get the whole thing off the page and replace it with something more like this:

 _Customers will pay you $200 to $500 for custom-designed Facebook pages, and you can build them in minutes with this tool._

Only with fewer words.

C. For a product that offers to simplify a complicated process, the home page looks awfully complicated. Too much technical jargon. Don't write things like this:

 _Forget about learning XFBML, FBML, FBJS, FQL._

You are trying to convince your customer that they need not learn or even _think_ about these acronyms. So don't name-drop them. That's like trying to sell a Caribbean vacation by saying:

 _Forget about sharks, food poisoning, skin cancer, or pickpockets._

Make the prose on the page be as easy and soothing as the product is meant to be. Speak to your audience. Don't use any technical terms except those that your customers need to know: "HTML" and "CSS". If a subset of your customers needs to know about the XFBML, put it in the FAQ.

D. The name. I hate to have to say it, it's like picking on someone's kids, but "A Plan Of Attack" is not a good product name. It doesn't suggest Facebook, it doesn't suggest design, it doesn't sound like the name of an application or product, it contains too many words, and it starts with an "A" which will turn your word-of-mouth recommendations into an Abbott and Costello sketch:

      A: "What should I use for my simple Facebook pages?"
      B: "'A Plan Of Attack'"
      A: "Which plan of attack?"
      B: "No, that's a spreadsheet. Use 'A Plan Of Attack'"
      A: "Did you even hear my question?"
      B: "Third base!"

E. A/B testing. Clearly you should not accept my word for any of this. I have no idea how to sell your product. All I have are hypotheses. So be sure you have a method for testing and winnowing hypotheses.

Good luck! If I ever need a custom Facebook page I will be sure to try your product.

<comment><USER3> Most English majors cannot write copy, unless they are trained to. Advertising and promotional copy are very different beasts than English. Find a copy writer instead and not some random English major.

<comment><USER2> Hee hee. No sooner did I press "submit" and head out the door than I thought "oops, someone is going to take me literally about that 'English major' line which I tossed off half-seriously. Maybe I should have phrased that differently."

I agree with you, of course.

Moral: everyone could use a copy editor. ;)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> One of the things that I've noticed is that you have too much text on your home page. The fact that I had to scroll down isn't a good thing. You have to make a sale FAST to an internet user. Trust me they have extremely short attention spans. How about this?

Are you a designer forced to dance to FBs tune? Use aplanofattack to deploy hassle free and concentrate on what matters the most; beautiful, seamless design.

Wanna learn more? Check it out.

I would chip away those lines again and again until it sounds like the voice in their head is saying it to them.

Also, have you thought of making it an intermediate thing? As you've replied in the comments something like this already exists for non-technical users, and you want to target developers, but why don't you target them both?

It's a matter of UI design. You can just about recess the less commonly used, and more complex functions out of sight, or make different views like WP has a visual compose mode and a HTML mode that works pretty well. Also, it would be awesome for a developer short on time to jump into modes for that good enough mockup.

<comment><AUTHOR> _Are you a designer forced to dance to FBs tune? Use aplanofattack to deploy hassle free and concentrate on what matters the most; beautiful, seamless design._

I like that! Thanks for your input. I definitely hear you on the "show don't tell" aspect. Ideally I'd have a catchy line like the one you made and then a slideshow of beautifully designed Facebook pages with a link to the actual live FB instance.

My goal here is to validate the core concept, hopefully gain some useful contacts/help and of course get some beta users.

As for the intermediate thing, definitely. If I can grab a couple of interested users, it would not be too difficult to build upon the functionality. My concern as of now is just to laser focus on my own unique angle. Pagemodo is really not something I'd want to emulate personally, but having easy wysiwyg templates is definitely useful.

I appreciate your feedback. Do you mind if I try to implement your phrasing?

<comment><USER4> >>>I like that! Thanks for your input. I definitely hear you on the "show don't tell" aspect. Ideally I'd have a catchy line like the one you made and then a slideshow of beautifully designed Facebook pages with a link to the actual live FB instance.<<<

Don't do a slideshow either. It takes too long to load on a slower internet connection and people tend to lose interest by that time. Instead photoshop something like coverflow with 3 beautiful pages. I am not telling you to rip off coverflow. Don't do that. Your customers are very sensitive to such things

Make a draft layout on paper and play with it. Cut out pieces of paper and move it around on your desk.

>>>My goal here is to validate the core concept, hopefully gain some useful contacts/help and of course get some beta users.<<<

I can understand that, but they are humans too and humans tend to get bored if they aren't engaged within those first 20-30 seconds. I am not asking you to make a fluff piece. No, I am asking you to make a hook to pull users in.

>>>As for the intermediate thing, definitely. If I can grab a couple of interested users, it would not be too difficult to build upon the functionality. My concern as of now is just to laser focus on my own unique angle. Pagemodo is really not something I'd want to emulate personally, but having easy wysiwyg templates is definitely useful.<<<

That sounds wise, but be careful not to box yourself in. I wish I could advise you more, but I haven't done any serious software development. So, I have no clue what challenges it brings on this side.

>>>I appreciate your feedback. Do you mind if I try to implement your phrasing?<<<

Of course not! I'll be honored if you do so. :)

If you think that I can help you in anyway at all then don't hesitate to contact me at yesthisisananonymousid at googlemail

P.S.- Do I get a free account? :p

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> This is what I see:

<http://www.uploadscreenshot.com/image/91811/1706063>

Are the boxes intentionally gray placeholders that you'll replace with screenshots or the like?

<comment><AUTHOR> Sorry, you are correct, they will be samples of Facebook pages made by the service. Sorry that it is unclear, I just felt it important to get feedback. Everything works though, the admin is functional and you can use the demo account provided on the sign up page.

<comment><USER6> I clicked out of the page and didn't even try it when I couldn't find an example page created by the service. Screenshot/examples are essential.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks, that is surely first on my list: "show don't tell." Since I probably couldn't make compelling enough designs, I'll have to find some designers to work with.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Instant impressions: Page loads too slowly. Too much text. Dislike the name.

The text in the yellow is hard to read, why are certain words in an even more yellow background?

The secondary marketing line isn't quite english:

"Probably depends on how good of a designer you are!"

I'd change that top bit to say:

> Create facebook pages for your clients with our WYSIWYG editor.

> A simple one page promotion page on Facebook is easily worth $500 for your > clients. Design and sell them with A Plan of Attack today!

The problem with _your_ text is that it's challenging and instills doubt. Am I good enough of a designer? Maybe not, oh well lets not bother. You want to say: Is a simple one page promotion page worth $500 to your clients companies? _fuck yes_ \- and we let you make them trivially!

"sell" is a bad word - especially to designers. Maybe "earn $500 by making your clients facebook landing pages" if that doesn't sound too dodgy.

The images on the right are just grey boxes, the login link should be top right. Let me create a page without signing up. (make the demo account auto login and obvious)

The sign up button should probably be on the right hand side of the page, i dislike how it turns red (too jarring)

The "Aplanofattack is in beta..." paragraph should be added on the sign up page, if not later. Sounds too sketchy on the first page.

Reiterate the service is free - on the sign up button.

Stick a contact button more obviously on the home page.

Kudos for saying "benefits at a glance" and not "Features at a glance" but now remove 80% of the words below that header.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Any and all feedback is welcome.

Hacker News has pretty much been my cofounder, investor, mentor and friend all rolled into one. So as always, thanks everyone.

If you like the concept please feel free to "Like" my application here: [http://www.facebook.com/apps/application.php?id=129421017095...](http://www.facebook.com/apps/application.php?id=129421017095211)

This will help me do some customer development and also get my Facebook url (without the identifer).

</comment><comment><USER8> If this really is your 93th attempt, I must commend you on your persistence, yet at the same time urge you to learn a little about lean startupping. It might save you another 100 failed attempts ;-)

</comment><comment><USER9> First off, and most importantly: the business idea itself is sound. I'm saying that as a guy who's transitioning into doing a lot of stuff on FB, and it's a frustrating process. This factor is more important than anything else.

The homepage is a good start, but could be slimmed down and needs to be more visual, as others have already said.

The actual admin though (I signed up) is a bit chaotic. The list of widgets is only one widget and I don't really understand how it all works together. The code editor looks great: I'd suggest having some sort of drag and drop interface that pulls the widget UI and the code editing UI together.

</comment><comment><USER10> Serious question - what went wrong with the other 9,355 business attempts?

Where did things not come together - unable to get traffic, to get conversions, to get sales, to monetize...? How much did you work at it in the past before giving up and moving on? If you've had problems at a similar area each time , there might be a blind spot or mistake in how you do things around there that needs specific refinement, as opposed to general feedback.

<comment><AUTHOR> It's not exactly "giving up" per say, the path is more like continuous seemingly unrelated (but really related) iterations for the sake of finally gaining traction (with something, anything) but more concretely becoming a better and better and better developer in the meanwhile.

I have tried a lot of times not _only_ because nothing worked (to my liking) but _overwhelmingly_ because I learn by doing. So here goes.

I used to print t-shirts. I learned the entire t-shirt printing process from studying online. Not just hobby stuff, I actually grew to a warehouse with professional-grade equipment.

I decided I would try and create a website for my t-shirt printing business.

1) I built a complete back-end php/mysql system to manage and process orders. My dream was to have it fully automated on-line but that was pretty damned hard. So I just used it internally.

2) I decided to make an ecommerce website that sold my own t-shirt designs. Thinking I could design, produce, and fulfill tshirt orders from my own custom-made ecommerce system (not to mention actually marketing it online to you know ... get sales) is pretty damned hard.

3) A while later I realized it would be great if I could sell custom "tackle twill" hoodies online because most people don't realize how insanely great a tackle twill hoody can look. Everyone is used to seeing boring solid color College type hoodies. (i also did embroidery). I set out on building this great system that let customers design their hoodies online from a set of pre- defined fonts, colors, patterns, and apparel choices. It was GREAT for the level of developer I was at the time, but needless to say... it wasn't that great. Never finished it because it was too complex and not nearly on par with the competition.

I was doing all this as a hobby since I spent all my time printing shirts. Then after a couple years I decided to go full-time web developing.

4) Took a year to _seriously_ learn how to code, learned kohana and jquery and built a website that created websites. Pretty much like weebly, but a thousand times more complex (which is really bad!). It works pretty well and powers <http://larasgift.com> (I have a couple of clients). But all in all, making websites for people is a huge pain in the ass.

5) Created a website that was to be an improvement to wikipedia. It is/was a cool idea, but obviously who the hell am i kidding with that idea ... (how do i make money?)

6) Created <http://pluspanda.com> because through building the weebly clone, I realized local businesses don't really _need_ whole entire websites. The internet is about word-of-mouth, referrals, and ... testimonials! (that's still live, just having trouble finding an acute market)

Here I learned that my coding was getting better but my productivity was suffering. Too much time wasted on stupid things. So after some deliberation I commited to learning Rails. I couldn't get Rails to work in Windows so what the hell, installed Ubuntu and become a command-line zen-master.

So now I'm riding the Rails on Ubuntu, source-controlling it with git so that i can deploy via capistrano and loving life chilling with the Linode production server.

7) <http://tastyink.com> was my first rails app that I built to learn Rails. I think this is a SOLID idea that I'm still working on but it's too complex of an idea to sell so I figured I needed a more dead simple IN to these local businesses which led to ...

8) <http://aplanofattack.com>

These are the main projects that I've actually commited to trying, there are a handful of other projects not worth mentioning and of course freelance work every now and then.

      The point is ......

I know I have an endless journey to become half as good as lots of people here on HN, but at the same time, I think I'm a pretty damned good developer nowadays =). I can sit inside a command line, configure a VPS, understand git, ruby, php, mysql, javascript, css etc. Not bad ...

Everyone tells me all the time "just stick to one project and stop abandoning everything"! I know that is sound advice. I know it! I just don't think of it as abandonment. I think of it as refinement. All of my projects have actually been perfectly inline with a core concept: Helping local businesses leverage the interent. It started at as some massively and painfully overcomplex website building engine 2000 (never make your apps complex!!) and slowly, slowly, I've iterated to very core and very simple "services" that business can use and understand quickly and easily.

I'm getting there!

Hope this helps.

<comment><USER11> Funny thing about most niche businesses is that they are about 10% software and 90% "the rest" (distribution, honing funnels, etc). Many/most software entrepreneurs fail because they really (when it comes down to it) just want to build stuff.

Nowadays (as an entrepreneur between projects), I'm pretty ruthless about avoiding any idea where I don't have 2-3 GREAT ideas on how I'm going to get customers for free/cheap.

If you're concentrating on small businesses, you have a tough road. They are notoriously hard to reach in a cost-effective way (many investors run away screaming if you say that your target market is SMBs-- with good reason).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I can't really comment on the viability/marketability of your product concept, but I will offer this very important, if not somewhat trite, piece of advice. If you are going to try to sell something to designers and use words like aesthetics in your sales copy, you will most likely fail if your own presentation is not aesthetically pleasing. Others have given some great suggestions below. I just want to emphasize that before you work to send any traffic to your site you should greatly enhance the look.

</comment><comment><USER13> the page needs to be designed better

you are trying to sell design services...your sales page should show the high quality of your product

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. I am not a designer per say so if anyone can help out with designing a couple sample facebook pages (for local businesses possibly), email me with a rate and/or we can work out some other agreement!

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Not exactly the same service, but worth a look : <http://tigerlilyapps.com/>

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks, that is helpful as I didn't find that one during my research.

I know of <http://northsocial.com/> which is nicely done.

Also this writeup on <http://pagemodo.com> @ [http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/04/facebook-tab-creator- pagemo...](http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/04/facebook-tab-creator-pagemodo/) lists some services in the comments.

The services I've seen focus on freemium and "ease of use" relative to non- developers/designers. Specifically pagemodo is a template generator.

I'm positioning aplanofattack as a service for designers/developers to use on behalf of their clients as a means to add to their product offering.

Pretty much exactly what <http://campaignmonitor.com> is for email newsletters. It gives freelancers and extra product to offer, without the infrastructure headache.

Thanks for your help.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> pretty good. I am wondering what are the three grey boxes doing in the sidebar? I am also interested in your other 92attempts.... that sounds a lot!~

</comment><comment><USER16> Seriously? You've failed 92 times? If so, perhaps you should try something else?

<comment><AUTHOR> Haha, I would have thought 93 was an outrageously big enough number so as to be an obvious exaggeration.

What I mean is that I am an aspiring web developer that happened to come from a non-related previous background. I chose not to go to college and after deciding to be a web developer, I just taught myself by building and building and building and building. I learned how to program horribly in PHP, and then I found Kohana and jquery which helped me code decently, and about 2 months ago I committed to learning Rails, built 3 Rails apps (including this one) and now I'd like to believe I'm pretty good!

Don't feel bad for me, because I love it! Thanks

<comment><USER16> It's not high enough, change it to 930th and it would be an obvious exaggeration.

<comment><AUTHOR> You know, I think there is a lot of value in what you are saying. I mean literally what you are saying... "93 is believable". And you know what, you are right! I think that's a great startup lesson... 93 is believable!

I like that! I will take your advice.</comment></comment></comment></comment>