When America Tried to Deport Its Radicals - <AUTHOR> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/11/11/when-america-tried-to-deport-its-radicals <comment><USER2> > In 1919, alarmed by the growing presence of "peoples of Asiatic races," the > Anti-Alien League called for a constitutional amendment "to restrict > citizenship by birth within the United States to the children of parents who > are of a race which is eligible for citizenship"—i.e., whites. Senator > Wesley Jones, of Washington State, promised to introduce such a measure—a > proposal not unlike today's calls to end birthright citizenship.

The majority of countries don't have birthright citizenship, and Ireland and New Zealand got rid of it in the 21st century. Yet in the view of the New Yorker, that common rule is "not unlike" a rule that would limit citizenship to a specific race.

(I'm a big proponent of birthright citizenship. But the New Yorker's framing of it devalues it by making it seem like the baseline, instead of an example of American exceptionalism.)

<comment><USER3> >"to restrict citizenship by birth within the United States to the children of parents who are of a race which is eligible for citizenship"—i.e., whites

White was also not considered a race in the 20's. There were Nordics, Jews, Irish, Eastern Europeans, and Southern Europeans. American eugenicists also were very much into "building" a race. They would have family breed competitions at fairs where families would compete like dogs or livestock for who were the best breeding stock. It wasnt a white vs colored, it was a tall, intelligent, hard-working, disease-free, group of mostly northern europeans vs anyone short, stalky, diseased, epileptic, mentally deficient, criminal, promiscuous, obsessed with art, etc. For instance, Irish were considered a problem because they didnt work hard, were obsessed with art and music, were short, and susceptible to tuberculosis. Mind you, this is not scientific fact, this is just the nonsense they spouted at the time. They also believed in a thing called "Germplasm" which roughly translated to gene pool, but of course even today we're not exactly clear on what's genetically inheritable and what isnt.

I should also mention, this is the deeply disturbing origin of the progressive movement in america. Using what they thought was superior scientific understanding of the natural world, the IQ test, birth control, the gifted student program, the use of performance metrics in school and workplaces to justify glass ceilings, firings, mass deportation, and mass sterilizations of anyone deemed deficient in any way by society. The work americans did to create a legal framework for eugenics would be borrowed by the Nazis to create their own legal framework for the deportation and final solution of the jews.

<comment><USER4> > White was also not considered a race in the 20's.

Yes, it was.

> There were Nordics, Jews, Irish, Eastern Europeans, and Southern Europeans.

The existence of those groups, and the fact that then-current concepts of whiteness would exclude some or all of them, doesn't change the fact that "White" was the identity of the dominant racial group, and had been for quite some time by the 1920s.

> I should also mention, this is the deeply disturbing origin of the > progressive movement in america.

No, it wasn't. Oh, deeply disturbing it was, but it wasn't the origin of the progressive movement in America. It's true that the eugenics movement occurred within one of many (often overlapping in time) movements that took the name "progressive" in US history, but it wasn't the first, nor one historically strongly connected to any of the modern groups with the name.

<comment><USER3> I respect your decision to be completely and utterly wrong. The progressive movement was the movement of eugenics. We were going to improve the human race through science, technology, and industrialization. Rockefeller Foundation funded eugenics research. Carnegie and Stanford created the scientific studies that would help support hundreds of new eugenics laws. UC Berkeley, Harvard, Columbia, etc would teach eugenics to students. We wiped the history clean of all this during WWII, but if you do some keen wikipedia'ing, or go oldschool and read some books, it's all there for you.

And no, there was no group of white people saying white people are all great, stick together, etc. That wouldnt happen until the 60's and 70's, after eugenics was taboo.

<comment><USER4> > I respect your decision to be completely and utterly wrong

That's hilarious but...

> The progressive movement was the movement of eugenics.

There, again, have been a number of separate "progressive" movements in US history, eugenics was a minority view within one of them. But, while you are wrong here, it's not nearly so flagrantly wrong as:

> And no, there was no group of white people saying white people are all > great, stick together, etc. That wouldnt happen until the 60's and 70's, > after eugenics was taboo.

I don't think it ever happened; even white racists don't tend to think white people are all great. But, no, white racists that saw the race they favored as the "white" race did not first show up in the 1960s-1970s, as evidence by the Cornerstone Speech in which Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens laid out his view of the central case for the Confederate cause in _18_ 61: "...Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. ..."

<comment><USER3> The progressive era was between the start of the industrial revolution and the start of WWII.

>even white racists don't tend to think white people are all great.

You are so committed to this modern liberal partisan revisionist historiography that you are willing to admit the narrative doesn't make any sense, and yet equally willing to keep at it. That's commitment.

Irish, Italians, russians, and other "inferior" whites were always considered white. "White" has never and will never be the barrier to entry into this country or into the american hierarchy. Looks, charm, stature, sharpness of mind, focus on meaningful pursuits like work, not being too interested in "meaningless pursuits" like art and music. Not being promiscuous, no criminality, no epilepsy, no "feeble-mindedness" or imbecility. This is what race was about. Virginia aristocracy, the Boston Brahmins etc, were spurred on by the leading science and technology of the day, to believe these attributes were genetically inherited and "selected" by nature, which meant they could also be selected with Mendelism. We were not interested in a "white race." Since race was something you could control, we were interested in a "superior american germplasm" a genepool of the best of the best while the rest were sterilized, aborted, deported, or imprisoned in jails, asylums, or reservations. American eugenicists were interested in "building a race." A concept Hitler adopted and was quoted talking about fairly often.

Racism was not white vs black. Its nowhere near that simple

<comment><USER4> > Racism was not white vs black.

Racism _was and is_ more complex than _just_ white vs. black, but that wasn't your claim upthread that I have been arguing against.

What you claimed previously was that _white was not considered a race_ before the 1920s. It absolutely was, and there are copious prominent invocations of white racial identity in US history prior to that time—as I've shown with the Cornerstone speech—and while racism is more complex than _just_ white vs. black (and ideas of just who is white have evolved), white vs. black has been a key racial divide for the whole history of the country.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> "We say that if America has entered the war to make the world safe for democracy, she must first make democracy safe in America. How else is the world to take America seriously, when democracy at home is daily being outraged, free speech suppressed, peaceable assemblies broken up by overbearing and brutal gangsters in uniform; when free press is curtailed and every independent opinion gagged? Verily, poor as we are in democracy, how can we give of it to the world? "

Emma Goldman, one of the deported radicals, wrote this 1917.

<comment><USER6> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Goldman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Goldman)

>>She and anarchist writer Alexander Berkman, her lover and lifelong friend, planned to assassinate industrialist and financier Henry Clay Frick as an act of propaganda of the deed. Frick survived the attempt on his life in 1892, and Berkman was sentenced to 22 years in prison

<comment><USER5> She also did not condemn the murder of president McKinley. So? Does that invalidate anything of what she wrote?

<comment><USER2> Without delving deeper into the facts, it raises the possibility that what she's portraying as suppression of free speech and independent thinking is actually a legitimate reaction to someone engaged in criminal activity.

<comment><USER5> Individually there were indeed quite some anarchists and communistsengaged in criminal activity. But not at all, all of them. And this is the point: Radical people do want to change the current system completely. But there is a big difference between working on peacefull opposition and organizing in unions for example, than active terrorism. Those raids in the article were targeted on radicals, no matter the criminal activity of them - they targeted simply political opponents. Did raids, beatings and torture without warrants. Eventually deporting. Not really democratic.

And when you have the state doing this, than it is hypocrisy for this state to go to war for democracy.

And this criticism is valid, even if the person expressing it, did engage in criminal herself earlier in her life.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> The British empire essentially deported many of its criminals to Australia. The USSR banished their radicals to Siberia... I'm sure others have done similar.

<comment><USER8> Yeah but none of those claim to be the "land of the freedom" and other platitudes as loudly as the Americans

<comment><USER9> This seems to be written in mean spirit, but is essentially true. America is supposed to be founded upon an ideology, and deserves scrutiny whether this ideology is upheld. (Incidentally, USSR, albeit not Russia, was also this way.) I'm not American, for example, and my sympathy for that country tends to be proportional to how much free and constitutional I find it.

The article is somewhat biased, but includes enough information to invite some reflecting on those problems. It paints an image of how many people might have been actually fearing a violent revolution, for example. It also shows how such fears can interplay with how law is executed.

<comment><USER10> > This seems to be written in mean spirit, but is essentially true. America is > supposed to be founded upon an ideology, and deserves scrutiny whether this > ideology is upheld.

This is why I admire China, and think they will win, even if they had to tie one hand behind their back. This Western notion that we have to uphold certain principles, without actually upholding them, is one of our many Achilles heels. We have to struggle with all this theoretical and historical baggage that people take soooóooo seriously, regardless of whether it really matters, sowing social discontent, and they just continue to do what's pragmatic, sowing social harmony over time as those slighted see that it is for the greater good.

The ego of the Western mind is a force to be reckoned with, for the West.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Amusingly, a question today is what to do with people who left their country to fight with the Islamic State? Take them back? Keep them out? Send them to re-education camps? Turkey has a lot of them, and they're not Turkish. Turkey wants to unload them. "There is no need to try to escape from it, we will send them back to you. Deal with them how you want." The UK doesn't want theirs back. France has decided to take theirs back. Sweden is taking theirs back but sending them to re-education camps. The US only has a few, so they can be dealt with individually.

</comment><comment><USER12> This kind of thing is why it's important to challenge the framing of people as "illegal"; citizenship is an administrative category, and abusive governments can find all sorts of excuses to end or revoke it.

<comment><USER13> They committed a crime (crossing a border illegally). What should you call it if not illegal immigration?

What do you call robbing a bank? Undocumented withdrawal? No, it's a crime.

<comment><USER14> People that smoke Marijuana have also committed a crime. As well as people that jaywalk, or violate any of the obscure laws the various states have on the books. They're all criminals, wouldn't you agree?

We should call them illegal citizens. Then we can start working towards deporting such criminals as the article demonstrates.

<comment><USER13> > We should call them illegal citizens. Then we can start working towards > deporting such criminals as the article demonstrates.

Well international law prevents you from making someone stateless so they get thrown in jail instead. But yes, non-citizens who commit crimes are generally deported.

Also, the US classes crimes as either felonies or misdemeanours (possibly more categories?). In Canada we have indictable crimes, summary offences and things like jaywalking aren't even crimes, just ticketable offences. It's disingenuous of you to compare something like jaywalking to actual crimes.

<comment><USER14> International law hasn't stopped the US before. So why bother? We can just deport these illegal citizens to the place that best matches their heritage. Problem solved.

And in the US, jaywalking is a crime. A crime is a crime, which makes jaywalking a crime all the same. If they decided to jaywalk, then they deserve to be deported for their criminal actions.

For reference: Crossing the boarder illegally is a misdemeanor just like jaywalking.

<comment><USER15> Crossing a federal border to enter a sovereign nation is nothing like jaywalking. Crimes have levels of seriousness, and non-citizens have more serious consequences from committing crimes including deportation.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Fascinating thread. Would be interesting to see the racial and socioeconomic breakdown of its participants.

</comment><comment><USER17> judging from title it sounds interesting. But I wish it was written more in wikipedia style, without book-like descriptions of shackles etc</comment>


Fossil fuels advocate replies to Massachusetts AG subpoena: "Fuck off, fascist." - <AUTHOR> http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexepstein/2016/06/16/first-the-government-went-after-exxonmobil-now-theyre-going-after-me <comment><USER2> Or: First the Government Went After ExxonMobil. Now They're Going After Me.</comment>


The Thing About Git - <AUTHOR> http://tomayko.com/writings/the-thing-about-git

<comment><USER2> The more I use git, the more I like it. It's like a treasure trove of great features but still feels lightweight and close to the metal.

</comment><comment> meat-eater The article did a real good job of explaining what makes git different from the other popular VCS. I used to use git as a more flexible subversion, just bundling adds and commits. But after I had this concept figured out, I realized there is more to git than being distributed and more flexible than svn.

</comment><comment><USER3> Interesting comparison of the tangled working copy problem, i'll have to dive into Git and see what all the fuss is about.

On a side note: Am I the only person that couldn't see the site in firefox on linux? It crashed my browser every time I opened it and I ended up using lynx to view the article.

</comment><comment><USER4> Is there any GUI clients for GIT, or is it command line only? If there is no good visual client, then that would really suck. I use perforce at work, and its visual client is pretty decent, but I have a co-worker raving about git all the time, so I wanted to give it a try.

<comment><USER5> there are a few: giggle (developer.imendio.com/projects/giggle) git-gui (packaged with Git, at least on my distro) gitk (same as git-gui)

and probably a few more

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I just started using git at the end of last week and after the initial bit of "Well it doesn't work like svn it's a pain" cursing I'm finally starting to get the hang of it. More tips like this are greatly appreciated as I am still very much a 4 commands git user.

<comment><USER7> I'm a big fan of Mercurial just for this reason. Mercurial offers most of the benefits of Git without the steep learning curve and poor documentation.

For instance, git add --patch can be done with hg record.

<comment><USER8> Hg misses some of the most key features. For example, most people find git's robust inline branching support to be an incredible boon for their workflow. Hg's implementation of this feature is poor by comparison.

<comment><USER7> Inline branching would be nice...

I think they do away with this for simplicity. Inline branching doesn't make that much conceptual sense a lot of the time. That said, I wish Hg had it.

<comment><USER8> Forgive me, because this is not an insult, but this "doesn't make conceptual sense" argument I hear so much is so much nonsense and excuses to me. Git supports multiple workflows and allows you to either directly resolve tainted- working-copy situations directly or avoid them.

By allowing for local branches you enable multiple parallel lines of development in one repository. It saves space, it saves effort, it saves time, and it's a cleaner way to organize your projects (all in one place rather than scatted across a directory listing). It also means you can evade the tainted- working-copy problem entirely by keeping short-lived, private, parallel branches of current feature development. Personally, I much prefer this mode of operation when I have the foresight to do it.

<comment><USER9> Incidentally, Mercurial does this now too. (for the archives)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I don't get it...

svn commit file1 file2 somemorestuff

Surely you just commit the files you want, and leave out the ones you're still working on :/

What am I missing?

<comment><USER11> You're missing that you may have made not one, but multiple substantive changes to file1, and you want to commit those changes separately.

<comment><USER10> Then you have a mess whatever revision control system you use. You have to manually decide which changes you want to commit in the file, and which you don't.

I still say it's better to avoid that mess in the first place.

<comment><USER11> From whose perspective is that a mess? From the perspective of a source control system which cannot deal with how I choose to work?

Honestly, no offense meant, but I'm starting to wonder if Subversion is the Blub of source control systems.

<comment><USER10> For me it's a mess.

If I start to fix bug B on top of a half implemented feature A, I end up with a mess.

I don't understand why you would work that way, and don't understand what git solves that svn doesn't. You still have to untangle the mess yourself.

<comment><USER11> You've seriously never looked at a file and said to yourself, "These changes belong in two separate commits"?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> okay, call me a luddite, but even after reading about this supposed solution to the tangled update problem, i'd never use it. too complicated for me.

<comment><USER13> So what do you do for version control?

<comment><USER12> we use svn at work, and i like it okay.

i suppose it has happened that i've got two sets of updates in progress that are tangled up somewhat, but i try to avoid such things, and usually succeed.

<comment><USER13> If you haven't already, watch Linus' Google tech talk about git.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> This is great! This was the one big thing I knew how to do in darcs but not in Git.

</comment><comment><USER15> Nice article, I learn something new about git everyday.

</comment><comment><USER16> wow, i did not know about git add --patch. that seems very very powerful.

</comment><comment><USER17> Sold.

</comment><comment><USER18> Needless to say, Git is not for people who are bothered by lack of heavy structure. Sorta like dynamic languages.</comment>


Ask HN: I've got a sleep problem, I always wake up at night - <AUTHOR>

Hi, I hope someone here will really help me with a hack or a tip from their own experience. My problem is, that I can't sleep through the night and it ruins my whole next day. Say, I go to bed at midnight: then I sleep 3, maybe 4 hours at best and wake up feeling thirsty and what's worse - hungry. I obviously can't fall asleep again with that (I tried), so I have to go make some food and then it's really hard to force yourself to sleep again and I only go to bed at 8-9am and sleep through the whole day then, because I simply can't get myself to wake up. Then the next day I manage myself to go to bed at midnight again and then I wake up at 4-5am and can live the next day normally, because I had enough sleep the day before. But then the cycle continues.
I work at home on my own projects. I do my runs almost everyday on my treadmill for 25 mins and go to the gym. Recently I discovered how exercising positively influences the brain, the ability to learn and the mood, I've even written about it: http://romansnitko.posterous.com/how-exercise-makes-you-smarter This book I'm talking about in the post also suggested that exercises should normalize the sleep process, but I guess that's the only effect I haven't managed to achieve so far. I also tried to google it, but only found a list of well known advices that don't work for me and posts about such problems in infants.
I've also ordered this book http://www.amazon.com/Promise-Sleep-Medicine-Connection-Happiness/dp/0440509017/ but it would take time to read it, so I decided to ask if someone had similar problems with sleep here and how they managed to defeat them.
Would highly appreciate the advices. <comment><USER3> I've had this problem in the past and continue to have it occasionally. I'm not usually thirsty and/or hungry, but usually my mind will wander and I'll start getting excited about some project I'm working on or (worse) start worrying about something that at 3 in the morning I can't begin to do anything about.

Here are a couple of obvious things to try (granted, they were only obvious to me in retrospect):

\- No caffeine (not even tea/soda) after 3 in the afternoon. Better yet, no caffeine at all is best. Counterintuitively, your body will totally wake you up when it wants a caffeine fix.

\- No alcohol if you have to get up at any particular time the next day. It will put you to sleep, but meanwhile your body is trying regulate itself and will release adrenaline, which will wake you up once the alcohol wears off.

\- Likewise, no sweetened or starchy foods in the evening. This is basically the same effect as alcohol, except that it's the sugar/starch crash that's putting you to sleep.

\- (Never done this, but) keep a journal of when you eat, drink, caffeinate, and sleep and see if you notice a pattern. You might find that, say, eating a late dinner screws with your sleep.

</comment><comment><USER4> I don't know about your weight/diet, but if I wake up hungry, it's because I really skimped on dinner. Maybe your meal isn't big enough?

When I used to wake up early, the general reason was because of medication I was taking - ironically to sleep (Ambien in this case). What medicines do you take? Do you

It's also possible, as other posters have noted, that you might have any number of conditions. Sleep apnea was a factor in my problems, but can only be diagnosed/treated by a doctor.

And finally - though it doesn't sound like your case - it's possible you might be trying to get more sleep than you need. Now 3-4 hours is almost certainly not enough, but if you sleep 8+ hours some days - and you always shoot for 8 - that might be more than you need. Try reducing your "goal" sleep time, until your "sleep efficiency" increases (this is a classic treatment for insomnia)

</comment><comment><USER5> When you work out your burning energy (calories) and losing water through sweat.

      1. Try eating an extra healthy snack like a cup of yogurt and a piece of fruit before you go to bed every day, like a ritual even if you're not hungry.

      2. Your body seems to need more water to replenish what you sweat out, that's why you're thirsty. Try hydrating yourself more by drinking "a lot" of water starting when you get up in the morning and sipping all day long like bodybuilders do.

Maybe that will help.

</comment><comment><USER6> You wake up thirsty and hungry in the middle of the night? Sorry for the silly question but are you having proper dinner at the proper time?

<comment><USER7> It is well known that you can't sleep if your blood sugar drops too low - <USER2> is why a mug of hot chocolate and a biscuit before bedtime works (the casein in the milk slows the digestion of the carbs in the chocolate lowering the GI). Athletes trying to make weight only having a protein shake before bed often report insomnia.

The key to sleep I found is to always wake up at the same time, but only go to sleep when tired. It takes about a week to rebalance yourself. Just don't throw it away by partying too hard at the weekend ;-)

<comment><USER6> Yes clear but if the guy is having dinner at 6pm and a bunch of salty popcorns before going to be bed, no wonder he'd wake up thirsty and hungry.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Go to a doctor. Not the most exciting answer, but there's any number of sleep conditions you may have that a doctor can diagnose and treat.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm certainly considering this, but I would also like to hear from anyone who also experienced it. Besides, It's been times, when I managed to wake up at 8am and go to bed at midnight for almost 2 months. So, I guess, there should be something I haven't noticed yet, that influences me most and feeds the abnormal condition.

<comment><USER9> A) Go to a doctor

B) It sounds like you're chronically dehydrated. How much water do you drink a day? Tea, coffee and soda don't count.</comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: H34t.io (No VC funding, no startup, I just wanted to build it) - <AUTHOR> http://www.h34t.io/ <comment><AUTHOR> I built h34t.io because I wanted to see where everyone was around me. I wanted to go to the places where people like me were at (age, sex, interests, etc) and avoid the other places.

I built the app over 6 months, submitted to iTunes along time ago, and am finally getting around to writing my first post about it.

I'll need more diverse expertise getting it to the next level, so anyone who is interested (especially marketing-growth-hacker-types) hit me up and we'll see if we have fun working together.

shaheen.ghiassy @ g.m.a.i.l c.o.m

<comment><USER2> Cool idea!

Any plans to share your experience creating the app or to show off the code itself?

Anything worth working on for 6 months is likely interesting to learn more about. Plus, it's always nice to find out how others tackle ambitious personal projects.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> All I get from the link is a webpage giving me the ASCII finger. Not exactly marketing that speaks to me.

Good luck.

<comment><AUTHOR> The marketing is geared for 21 year olds and younger. If you're older than that and offended, then the marketing is on message ;)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I am interested in the app functionality .. So is it like we need to check in when we visit a place ? How exactly is data coming in ?

</comment><comment><USER5> Cool app! Where does the data come from?</comment>


Show HN: Word Assistant – Take research process out of your writing - <AUTHOR> https://seotify.com/word-assistant/ <comment><AUTHOR> TL:DR; I made an app that makes you write 10X faster. It basically takes the research process out of writing and tells you everything you should write about, in an organized way.

So, let me tell you the story of the app quickly.

4-5 month ago, I was hopelessly thinking, how could I make a news site I own compete with the big players in the industry but at the same time, keep operational costs as low as possible.

Creating enormous amounts of content daily was the issue, of course. To solve that problem, I first needed to understand the content creation process. So I've setup screen recorders both on my and a few editors' PCs and we've started writing news/reviews articles as usual.

Soon after I watched the screen records, I realized an odd pattern, instead of actually writing, 80% of our times were being wasted browsing through tabs and reading what others have said about the topic that we're writing about...

At that point I knew I was onto something, because, if there's repetition, there's a room for automation.

With those findings in my mind, I came up with a hypothesis; Anybody could write great and in-depth articles without banging head on the keyboard, as long as s/he knows what to write about! So, long story short, I made an app that scans the web for you, finds relevant articles, extracts key points , important events and feeds you with new angles in an organized way as you continue your writing. So you never get distracted and waste precious time browsing through the tabs to see other people's point of view. My hope is that, it'll help each one of you by taking your content costs down and freeing up your time! So, here you go;

[https://seotify.com/word-assistant/](https://seotify.com/word-assistant/)</comment>


On Android innovation: How temperature & humidity sensors made it into the S4 - <AUTHOR> http://opensignal.com/blog/2013/06/12/the-story-of-how-temperature-and-humidity-sensors-made-it-into-the-samsung-galaxy-s4/ I'd love to know if anyone has any other stories of changes that were adopted by Android following submissions to the Android OpenSource Project by third parties. <comment><AUTHOR> I'd be interested to know of other stories of submissions to the Android Open Source Project buy 3rd parties that were adopted and became part of core Android. Anyone?</comment>


Micro Python – a lean and efficient implementation of Python 3 - <AUTHOR> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2014-June/672994.html <comment><USER2> It was just pointed out to me that micropython starts an order of magnitude faster than both python2 and python3:

        $ time ./micropython -c 'print(1)'
        1
        ./micropython -c 'print(1)'  0.00s user 0.00s system 0% cpu 0.002 total

        $ time ./python2 -c 'print(1)'
        1
        python2 -c 'print(1)'  0.01s user 0.00s system 52% cpu 0.019 total

        $ time ./python3 -c 'print(1)'
        1
        python3 -c 'print(1)'  0.03s user 0.00s system 85% cpu 0.035 total

<comment><USER3> Yeah this is one of my longstanding annoyances with Python... the interpreter is quite slow to start up because every import generates a ton of stat() calls. Moreover, there is a tendency to use a very long PYTHONPATH, which increases the number of stats.

It's basically doing random access I/O (the slowest thing your computer can do) proportional to (large constant factor) * (num imports in program) * (length of PYTHONPATH).

When you can use it, a shebang of

#!/usr/bin/python -S

can speed things up substantially.

Perl starts up an order of magnitude faster too (more like 3ms than 30ms). Ruby seems to have the same problem as Python.

<comment><USER4> What are you doing that you are noticing this routinely and finding it to be a large annoyance?

<comment><USER5> Any command-line script in Python that uses a significant codebase or a significant number of libraries. For me the main example is Mercurial -- it takes about 200ms (on my Mac) to run even a trivial command, and that's plenty long enough to get in the way.

It's about 60ms on my other laptop (Linux), and that's just at the threshold of noticeable and annoying.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> > Supports almost full Python 3 syntax, including yield (compiles 99.99% of > the Python 3 standard library).

What parts of Python 3 syntax are missing? Which parts of the library don't compile?

<comment><AUTHOR> It's discussed some here:

[https://github.com/micropython/micropython/wiki/Differences](https://github.com/micropython/micropython/wiki/Differences)

But I guess they are still in the process of writing that/filling it out.

The biggest difference listed is probably no Unicode. Another significant point is that lots of library functions are only partially implemented.

<comment><USER7> > The biggest difference listed is probably no Unicode.

Funny, considering that was the core reason for Python3 in the first place (though I can't immediately come up with a reference).

<comment><AUTHOR> This is sort of the design document for Python 3:

[http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3100/](http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3100/)

Along with this one:

[http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3000/](http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3000/)

(Of course there was lots and lots of thought and discussion that is not reflected in those documents)

I would characterize the Unicode/bytes change to simply be the most visible and disruptive change, it didn't really stand apart as far as being a reason, it was one of many.

<comment><USER7> From what I remember from various posts, most other changes could be done gradually on the 2.x branch. Unicode couldn't.

I may be mischaracterising it :)

That said, I suppose it's wise to base MicroPython on the "live" branch of Python (3.x), not the legacy one (2.x), even if Unicode support is too costly for them.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Slowly gaining traction it seems. Has been posted before without even getting comments ([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6763123](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6763123)) and then some comments ([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6996692](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6996692)) but already has more points now :]

<comment><USER9> The kickstarter for the controller boards got a few votes too, but didn't get much traction: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6727326](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6727326)

Glad to see people getting on board now, it's pretty awesome. Fitting Python onto such a resource limited microcontroller is a great achievement.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> WOW!! I see this as a serious competitor to Lua. I think lua because so popular because of its small footprint and easy embedability... Perhaps this is the first step to a Python revolution...

I expect to see a lot of interesting devices and software embedding Micro Python.

<comment><USER11> It's still well over an order of magnitude bigger than Lua. MicroPython is ~200k non-blank-non-comment lines of code (as reported by cloc), while Lua 5.1 is 12k.

<comment><USER12> Actually, most of that SLOC is in the stmhal/ port, of which ~100k is the ST library.

The true count comes from the py/ directory, for which cloc gives only 25k. And there are a lot of extra bits there, eg the inline assembler, the Thumb and X64 assembler helpers, etc.

EDIT: without the additional assemblers, cloc gives 22k. Remember that Python has ints, floats, complex and bignum, and these are all included in Micro Python. So that 22k SLOC includes complex arithmetic and a 1k bignum implementation.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> It always strikes me, that the things that parts of python that create problems for people trying to optimize it, are all things of relatively small importance. Like __new__, __del__ semantics and changing the stack by inspection. I wish Python3 had just let go of the slow scripting-only parts.

<comment><USER14> The problem is that often while regular users are not directly using those features, they are using libraries that do use them. As a concrete example, people writing webapps with Django probably (often) aren't using some of the crazier class metaprogramming, but they are using Django's models, which use lots of it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Attn: Kivy can really use this for mobile deployements, but we use Cython and almost everyone needs cpython C modules. We need to investigate making drop-in replacements for Python.h and other cpython headers to stub out reference counting etc, which micro-python doesn't use. The compiler will just skip the calls entirely in some cases.

If these drop-in replacements are technically feasible, not only does Cython magically work, but so does a lot of the Python ecosystem. There's probably more work to get linking and other aspects working, but this might also be a model for moving to alternative Python implementations in general. As long as straight Python "just works" and the headers are available for compiling C modules, we're very close to having a sensible alternative to cpython that can grow without being wedded to it.

Please comment on technical requirements. Issue opened here: [https://github.com/micropython/micropython/issues/658](https://github.com/micropython/micropython/issues/658)

</comment><comment><USER16> The project's website, from the linked post:

[http://micropython.org](http://micropython.org)

Apparently, there's a kickstarter for a dev board that runs this version of python. Looks interesting.

<comment><USER17> Got one!

Haven't fired it up yet.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> There is a talk about it here from a few weeks ago [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmGISrwPtyA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmGISrwPtyA)

</comment><comment><USER19> This project provide a so-called pyboard. It is interesting! The board's design can be found here [https://github.com/micropython/pyboard](https://github.com/micropython/pyboard)

</comment><comment><USER20> Does it strike anyone else as odd that garbage collection is used in such a resource constrained environment?

Also tangent question, what is it about languages like Python and Ruby that make it more amenable to reimplementation than Perl?

<comment><USER21> To take a stab at the second question, I think BNF that fits on one page [https://docs.python.org/3.4/reference/grammar.html](https://docs.python.org/3.4/reference/grammar.html) vs [http://perldoc.perl.org/perlfaq7.html#Can-I-get-a- BNF%2fyacc...](http://perldoc.perl.org/perlfaq7.html#Can-I-get-a- BNF%2fyacc%2fRE-for-the-Perl-language%3f)

This basically means Perl is very complex and its grammar can be self contradicting, such that behavior is undefined. C++ has a similar problem to a lesser extent.

<comment><USER22> To expand on the non-syntax, perl has an incredible amount of language-level features, which may appear very weird to people who have only seen it from afar.

For example, perl formats[0] are language-level support for generating formatted text reports and charts, which is basically a whole sublanguage (much like perl regexen).

[0] [http://perldoc.perl.org/perlform.html](http://perldoc.perl.org/perlform.html)

<comment><USER21> That's pretty crazy. I used Perl a lot, but haven't seen that feature :)

<comment><USER23> Printing nicely formatted reports was one of Larry Wall's original motivations for Perl.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Is this a route to a good Python stack for mobile?

Any interest from the Kivy team or related projects?

<comment><USER4> People are constantly running Java on mobile and that's very heavy. With phone storage into the gigs. There's no reason Python couldn't have been used before Micropython, except that vendors didn't want to allow it in.

<comment><USER24> It's about:

a) executable size (packaging a large runtime with every app b) RAM usage

Python suffers on both counts on mobile.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> This is pretty neat, I'm gaining an appreciate for microcontrollers and using high level languages is attractive.

That said, the alternative I'm exploring is to upload a standard Firmata firmware to the microcontroller, then drive it remotely, say from python on a full computer (like raspberry pi).

i think the interestng area comes when you can actually put a fairly "smart" microcontroller firmware on the device (GRBL) and then program it remotely, say with a scripting language. At that point, the boundaries between a firmware that is a dvice controller, and a firmware that is an open-ended remotely drivable VM starts to break down. Interesting area.

</comment><comment><USER26> If someone is wondering what's going on with unicode support:

> No unicode support is actually implemented. Python3 calls for strict > difference between str and bytes data types (unlike Python2, which has > neutral unified data type for strings and binary data, and separates out > unicode data type). MicroPython faithfully implements str/bytes separation, > but currently, underlying str implementation is the same as bytes. This > means strings in MicroPython are not unicode, but 8-bit characters (fully > binary-clean).

<comment><AUTHOR> This was linked in a later post to the mailing list thread:

[https://github.com/micropython/micropython/issues/657](https://github.com/micropython/micropython/issues/657)

They plan on improving the Unicode support.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> Just got my board (kickstarter backer). Can't wait to take a few hours to play with it!

<comment><USER28> Could you share what projects you can imagine this being great for?

I'm excited by the idea of it all but I can't seem to come up with a project that I'd want to mess with enough to purchase one.

Maybe I just need more coffee....

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> This is pretty cool. Could it run on something like an Arduino?

<comment><USER30> If you're talking about the traditional 8-bit AVR Arduinos, the answer is almost certainly no. The AVR boards like the ATmega328 (on the Uno) only have a few kbyte of RAM available. But MicroPython apparently can run on some pretty tiny and inexpensive boards: namely the Arm Cortex microcontrollers.

They are a bit more expensive than the chip in the Arduino, but well under $20 per chip. You can buy very nice evaluation Cortex boards for ~$10 from ST and Freescale[1,2].

Incidentally, Arduino now makes a board that uses the Arm Cortex chip: the Arduino Due[3]. I believe it's around $30.

1\. [http://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-46626/l/element1...](http://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-46626/l/element14-presents- freescale-kinetis-l-based-freedom-development-board)

2\. [http://www.st.com/web/catalog/tools/FM116/SC959/SS1532/PF252...](http://www.st.com/web/catalog/tools/FM116/SC959/SS1532/PF252419)

3\. [http://arduino.cc/en/Main/arduinoBoardDue](http://arduino.cc/en/Main/arduinoBoardDue)

<comment><USER31> It appears from [0] that the chip of choice is the STM32F045RGT (datasheet [1]). This is from the Cortex M4f series, which includes such wonderful things as a hardware floating-point unit. That is wonderful news, although, this board appears to have no external memory, so it would be limited to 128kB.

[0] [https://raw.githubusercontent.com/micropython/pyboard/master...](https://raw.githubusercontent.com/micropython/pyboard/master/schem.png) [1] [http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet- pdf/pdf/510587/STMICRO...](http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet- pdf/pdf/510587/STMICROELECTRONICS/STM32F405RG.html)

<comment><USER18> You can get versions with external memory.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> Anyone know the "scale" of this re-implementation? Is it simply a fork of CPython with some performance tweaks, or is it a primarily new code-base? Regardless it's pretty cool.

<comment><USER33> It'd definitely be a new code-base. In terms of comparison, I'd guess this uses "cheaper" algorithms, that use less memory, and don't scale as well. There are many things that CPython does behind the background that most people don't fully appreciate.

Edit: Here is a good document on the differences [https://github.com/micropython/micropython/wiki/Differences](https://github.com/micropython/micropython/wiki/Differences)

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> I am truly very happy that he was able to fund this cool project. The funding went very well it seems, more more than 6x the initial proposed funding!

I might just quit my job and do something similar!

</comment><comment><USER35> Is there a way to try it on windows ?

<comment><USER36> [https://github.com/micropython/micropython/tree/master/windo...](https://github.com/micropython/micropython/tree/master/windows)

> This is experimental, community-supported Windows port of MicroPython. It is > based on Unix port, and expected to remain so. The port requires additional > testing, debugging, and patches. Please consider to contribute.

<comment><USER8> It works ok though: all tests pass both for msvc and mingw

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> So upset that I missed this kickstarter. I've been obsessively refreshing the homepage to see if I can buy a micropython board yet.

</comment><comment><USER38> Nice! How much of this optimization can be ported back to CPython, keeping compatibility but improving memory usage and speed?

<comment><USER12> A lot of the internals are significantly different, and would be difficult to back port. Eg, a Micro Python object is a machine word which might be a pointer to a real object, a small integer, or an interned string. By stuffing small integers (and strings) into the unused bit-space of a machine word, Micro Python can do a lot of integer operations without allocating heap RAM. This is in contrast to CPython where all integers are on the heap (although the ones below 257 are cached).

Another example: calling a function in CPython requires a heap allocation of the call frame. In Micro Python this is generally not needed (unless the function call is significantly complicated).

<comment><USER39> So never mind back porting. Can the implementation be extended to 100 percent compatibility without losing the benefits? In other words, could it replace cpython?

<comment><USER40> I would rather have pypy replace cpython than this. Seems like a better bet too due to the design goals.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> i got one of the dev boards like a month ago, i was part of the kickstarter.

this thing is amazing, it took me a week to stop using arduino.

</comment><comment><USER42> we use a lot of python on the windows platform - especially the win32 and multiprocessing modules. Would love a variant of micropython on windows that can support them.

There a large number of embedded Windows CE devices that run in retail.

</comment><comment><USER43> any benchmark vs cpython avail? (not startup speed). just curious.

</comment><comment><USER44> Anyone else read that as "Monty Python"?</comment>


How to bootstrap in The Valley/San Francisco for 3 months - <AUTHOR>

Me and my startup co-founder are planning a 3 month business trip to the States where we are going to live in The Valley and/or San Francisco. We are from Denmark and of cause want to get as much out of the trip as possible.
We are both in our 30's with a couple of startups behind us already. We are outgoing and would love to meetup with fellow hackers and entrepreneurs.
We have a place to stay in Palo Alto for the first week or so and we have a few friends in The Valley in other startups that we hope(!) can set us up with desks for some of the time. But we are also more than willing to get to know new people, work from cafes etc.
The official purpose of the trip is to network, bootstrap and ultimately meet with a lot of investors to pitch our project.
I'm writing here in hopes of getting some good advice of how to survive 3 months in The Valley or San Francisco. I of cause have a huge amount of questions, and I bet you can tell me stuff I didn't know I needed to know. But to get the started here are my most burning questions:
- Where should we go to meet and hang out with other cool startups? - How do we get internet? - How do we get SIMs without a contract for our iPhones and iPads? - Do you know of a friendly startup with one or two extra desks that we can use for a limited time? - How do we get around cheaply (transport)? - And of cause, do you have a spare bed or couch? ;) <comment><USER2> I was in a similar situation.

\- For the sim cards. Any monthly prepaid plan like the $50 T-mobile 4G with unlimited data, text &talk is fine.

\- For internet try check verizon, att, t-mobile or timewarner. I currently have time warner. It's a bit expensive. FIOS with 20mb/s for $45 a month.

\- For the event checkout <http://www.eventbrite.com> & <http://www.meetup.com> and search for the events.

\- Fro the transportation, get a cliper card. You can take the bart and the bus with it. Unfortunately a car is a must have for the bay area if you are planning to driving around palo alto, ...

And, it's a good idea, we should setup an hacker news meetup !

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for your quick feedback :)

I've been thinking back and forth about if we should get a car, but couldn't figure out if it was a headache if we where to stay in SF for some of the time (I've got no clue if it's hard to find parking or anything like that).

Since it's for a long period (3 months), would you sugest rental or should we buy a cheap old model and sell it before we leave?

Btw. In regards to internet, I wasn't thinking about a DSL line (since we don't have fixed place to live) - I was more thinking if it was worth considering some WiFi hotspot plans if that sort of thing even exists (don't know if Starbucks or cafes have stuff like that)

<comment><USER3> If you were from US, Id recommend you get a zipcar/getaround account or rent a car for those few times you will need to drive down to Palo Alto/Mountain View etc.

However since you are foreigners, I have no idea how the insurance aspect would play out. If you go the rental route, try to see if you can get a credit card in Denmark that would cover car rental insurance overseas, otherwise you would have to pay daily car collision insurance which sometimes costs as much as the car rental itself.

<comment><AUTHOR> Great feedback! I'll defeantly look into that. Zipcar or the like would be fun to try

<comment><USER4> If you don't have US drivers license, Zipcar requires a piece of paper from the Danish chief of police that you haven't caused vehicular mayhem recently. It's pretty easy to get.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> As far as places to stay and network, take a look at Chez JJ (<http://chezjj.com/>), a "home for itinerant hackers". I haven't stayed there to do a startup, but I've been there several times and I know the folks running the houses; they're good people, and everyone who stays there seems to enjoy it.

<comment><USER6> Seconded on Chez JJ; stayed at all three, and got an excellent amount of networking done with the most awesome individuals. Also pretty cheap as far as BA accommodations go.

San Francisco and "the valley" are very different and far enough apart that you don't want to make the commute between them any more often than necessary. Plan on multiple consecutive days in one before you visit the other.

It's nearly pointless (and a huge hassle) to have a car in SF, and it's useful if not essential to have a car in the valley. Zipcars are cute but they end up being far more expensive than regular rental cars if you need them for more than a few hours. They also require a significant amount of up-front planning, as you have to obtain additional hardware before being able to drive one away.

Best place to meet and network are meetup.com, and other entrepreneurs' pitch sessions. Hacker Dojo and a few other co-working places are pretty good too.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Hej! Always great to see Danes down in the valley. I lived in CPH for three years, interned at Podio for some time, and have been rooting for the Danish startup scene since. While I can't offer much in the way of networking or a place to sleep (new to the Valley myself), I'd love to meet and get mocked for my Danish again ;)

<comment><AUTHOR> Hej :)

Sounds great! The Podio guys are awesome. You can get in touch with me on email@example.com. We'll arrive on the 28th of August and leave on the 25th of November.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I'd be interested to know what kind of visa you have to enable you to work over here in the US?

<comment><AUTHOR> Since we are both from Denmark we are included in the Visa Waiver Program which "allows citizens of specific countries to travel to the United States for tourism or business for up to 90 days without having to obtain a visa" -<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Waiver_Program>

We will not be working for anybody during our stay. It's simply a business trip so we can network, pitch for investors and hopefully raise money.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> you might wanna link up with other startuppers at <http://www.hackersandfounders.com/>

<comment><AUTHOR> Wow! Looks very interesting - Thnx :) People should also check out their new website: <http://beta.hackersandfounders.com/></comment></comment>


Show HN: Ajaxable – helps your forms degrade gracefully - <AUTHOR> https://ajaxable.js.org/ <comment><AUTHOR> It's pretty simple library but I hope can helps someone. I'm gonna make also a wrapper for React applications</comment>


Ask HN: Cheaper alternative to productboard? (A trello for product design) - <AUTHOR> I really liked using the design of productboard, which is task-management web SAAS.
So well done for them.
However, the pay-plan is too expensive for us as bootstrappers ($50/month/user, looks like it is targeted at larger corporations).
Can someone recommend similar products ? <comment><USER2> How much would you pay for the product?</comment>


ISS HTV Docking Simulator - <AUTHOR> https://ssl.tksc.jaxa.jp/htvgo/smartphone/ <comment><USER2> Expected this to be like the spacex docking simulator but its completely different and deals with more of the orbital mechanics rather than assuming that the acceleration due to gravity is constant.

<comment><USER3> also it seems to run at 10x speed that makes it so hard

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Pc version: [https://ssl.tksc.jaxa.jp/htvgo/pc/](https://ssl.tksc.jaxa.jp/htvgo/pc/)

</comment><comment><USER5> Just WTF... maybe if I understood Japanese :D This is nothing like the SpaceX sim, KSP or ISS streams.

</comment><comment><USER6> For the first part, basically have to thrust up and left to keep the path going up the middle line.

</comment><comment><USER7> Aw, it ends when you grab it with Canadarm. I would've liked to actually dock it to the ISS

</comment><comment><USER8> Its a berthing simulator

</comment><comment><USER3> This was much harder than the spacex sim - took me 1 failure to get it right</comment>


Ask HN: How do you overcome perfectionism? - <AUTHOR>

How do you overcome the feeling of perfectionism?
I've always wanted to learn more about software development. However, whenever I try, I self-criticize myself into giving up -- the icon sucks, the app is not innovative, the UI sucks, etc.
How do I stop the self comparisons? How do I find enjoyment in something I'm not "wonderful" at?
I'm 27. I know that's not old, but it feels like it when people half my age are 6x better.
Help? <comment><USER2> It's funny you post this. I published a post on my blog about not being able to release my personal projects because my self-expectations are so high I never end up releasing anything. [http://ilikekillnerds.com/2013/06/jfri-just- fucking-release-...](http://ilikekillnerds.com/2013/06/jfri-just-fucking- release-it/) — I don't mean to spam my post, I think it's pretty relevant though. I feel your pain and I'm 25, I fear I won't ever release anything but I am learning to embrace the mantra of, "just release it" even slowly.</comment>


H2O – an optimized HTTP server with support for HTTP/1.x and HTTP/2 - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/h2o/h2o <comment><USER2> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8342131](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8342131)

</comment><comment> zaide-desmarets What's the purpose of benchmarking HTTP requests to a 6Bytes contents? HTTP contents are more between ~50KB on the web no?

The difference is not so obvious when file size increase compare to nginx.

<comment><USER3> While I pretty much agree with you that microbenchmarks are always suspect, it's also worth noting that HTTP2 will change the landscape a bit. All those bundles of icons in fonts and sprites can be loaded in parallel going forward...so, lots more very small files.

Further, I rarely worry much about web server performance, because I have so many other pieces in the stack that are the bottlenecks. In fact, almost everything in my web application stack is slower than my web server...so, I don't sweat the web server, except in cases where I can find a good argument that it matters. So, a benchmark of one very fast web server against another very fast web server (and most of the major players are very fast, at this point) is not going to convince me to change.

<comment><USER4> > All those bundles of icons in fonts and sprites can be loaded in parallel > going forward

The protocol offers to push files indeed, but AFAIK we're yet to see any application side support for that. So I doubt it will matter anytime soon.

I'm not even sure how it could be integrated to the current rack /WSGI / etc model. Maybe with X-Send-File type headers?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I find a performance-based sales pitch much less appealing than one that told me the primary focuses were security and predictability of configuration. Too many hours spent pulling my hair out with Nginx config

</comment><comment><USER6> How does it compare to lwan?

[https://github.com/lpereira/lwan](https://github.com/lpereira/lwan)

</comment><comment><USER7> Does it support websockets? And I'm hoping for an interface to the Go language.

<comment><USER8> poor CGO performance would kill the benefits imho

<comment><USER7> I guess it depends. For example, not if the Go interface would be used merely for the websocket part, while the raw content is still served by the C code alone.

<comment><USER9> Just curious, why would you use this instead of the server in net/http?

<comment><USER7> Speed :)</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: My startup that makes any existing website collaborative in real time - <AUTHOR> http://www.sugarbox.io/

<comment><AUTHOR> Some use cases would be: a. QA recording bugs instead of writing tedious instructions for repo, since you can use the inspector on the recording. b. Developers making changes instantly showing it to multiple people. c. Office food ordering - one person signed in, send the link around and people can pick their hard to pronounced Thai food. d. Collaborative travel planning e. Pair programming with an online editor of your choice

A sample recording of us using it on Codeacademy [http://www.sgrbx.io/#/play/sHMVrO1jg8](http://www.sgrbx.io/#/play/sHMVrO1jg8)

We are currently in beta, look forward to your feedback!

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> This is a shared control, interactive collaboration, similar to shareJS but WITHOUT developer integration. Not just add chat to any website. That would be lame. Had to clarify, as some people expressed confusion.

</comment><comment><USER2> I've been using this to test the usability of our internal management with the team and figure out bugs. It's fun to send recorded snippets of future functionality too. Love it!

</comment><comment><USER3> Wow, content sharing and collaboration via url only; no fuss, no mess. Sounds like a great way for digital agencies to review and solicit client feedback. Sweet!

</comment><comment><USER4> This is so much better than Go-to-Meeting and Google Hangouts screenshare! Looking forward to trying this out for client demos. Good work Jessica and Chris!

</comment><comment><USER5> Jess (one of the founders) showed me this in early beta a month ago and it was already super slick then! Congrats on the launch!

</comment><comment><USER6> I would love to try this. I would hate to have to sign in with g+ only.

<comment><AUTHOR> That was an attempt at not having to make people sign up and make it super low friction. So an option to sign up for a different account is preferable? Also curious as to your reason for not liking that?

<comment><USER6> Low friction sign ups that require just an email address and pw are preferable to me. I use disposable emails unique to each site and besides remembering passwords, I don't worry if one site gets hacked because they won't have access to any others.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks, this is very helpful. We will consider this in our next iteration.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I'm getting a 400 error on upgrading the websocket connection.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the note. What system are you on and what browser? We are taking a look at it right now. Can you try refreshing?</comment></comment>


Ask HN: How do you get senpai in a field (e.g. Haskell) to notice you remotely? - <AUTHOR> Let's say you have 10~14 hours of free time a week outside of work to commit to any project you want.
And let's say you have the basic knowledge of things in a particular field (e.g. you know a monad is just a monoid in the category of endofunctors!) and the determination to get senpais (先輩) in the field (e.g. Haskell) to notice you, which may take a couple of years but you are determined to make acquaintances with senpais because they are really cool! And you want to really good in the field. Someday you want to be like senpais.
So here is my "Ask HN":
Without attending on-site meet-ups and events and conferences and meeting senpais in person, (and supposed you don't have any mutual connections with senpais), how do you go about getting senpais to notice you i.e. in a remote setting and without through a reference?
Is it even possible?
It has occured to me that "meeting" people online (or "e-meeting" in general) is often kind of a come-and-go thing, espeically if there isn't anything off-site that "meaningfully" holds the connection e.g. institutions like universities, or through an organisation, etc. <comment><USER2> No one notices people with only basic knowledge. Everyone has to spend time learning and producing good work to be noticed.

As Naruto said, no shortcut to being Hokage.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Ship, ship, and ship.</comment>


Survival of the Friendliest (2017) - <AUTHOR> http://nautil.us/issue/75/story/survival-of-the-friendliest-rp <comment><USER2> I had a friend once who saw a real-life situation as Prisoners Dilemma and his take-away was that cooperation was unlikely. My opinion was that prisoners dilemma shows us that two parties who communicate and cooperate in such a situation would quickly develop an unassailable advantage.

There is a real failure in how individualism is promoted. We should promote the freedom of the individual _because_ the optimum strategy is to cooperate; which means a free individual poses little threat to the collective but massive upside if they think of a better way of behaving.

This is also why authoritarianism is a bad idea - if the natural equlibrium position is cooperation, and cooperation massively outperforms the alternatives _and then_ the situation is forced away from equilibrium, what exactly is going to happen? Nothing good.

Just look at modern human society. There is no way that cooperation isn't the superior strategy. There are nearly no arenas where an individual can effectively compete with a team without people agreeing to artificial rules.

</comment><comment><USER3> Is this the common view? I always saw "fittest" as that which is more fit for a niche regardless of what power trait was implemented. I mentioned this elsewhere in this [1] comment, being surprised that someone assumed "fit" was defined in a more malicious manner but I guess this day and age, the definition seems to be more biased towards competitive manners rather than socially inclusive.

[1] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20615981](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20615981)

</comment><comment><USER4> Related, "The Evolutionary Dominance of Ethnocentric Cooperation": [http://jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/16/3/7.html](http://jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/16/3/7.html)

</comment><comment><USER5> The confrontational approach is an archaic holdover of a Victorian worldview.

</comment><comment><USER6> Biggest ass kisser wins

</comment><comment><USER7> Don't go to war, stay behind and mate.</comment>


I go to school and work 4 days a week, how do I make money in the rest 3 - <AUTHOR> I am often bored during the weekends and a day off I get once in a while during the week. I need the money, for tuition and all, so how would I go on about making money with my free time.
I only have some programming experience. Right now I teach at InstaEdu (Now Chegg tutors) at $20 an hour but it is VERY UNSTABLE. I sometimes can manage $100 in the same day and somedays only $20 for 4-5 hours of work. Pointers?
Also, I can't get a second job because of some government-aid restrictions on me :/ I live in the USA.
Thanks! :) <comment><USER2> What's your major . . . if you're bored think about learning something related to your major or something that could earn you money in the future.

If you have some programming experience think about learning more if you're interested in it you can make money with those skills.

You can learn how to create websites and offer that as a service to friends/classmates and/or local small businesses.(html/css, buying domains, setting up hosting).

Maybe learn how to setup develop and customize wordpress sites and offer that service as well. (setting up wordpress on hosting, pointing the domain, installing themes, customizing, plugins).

You will need to report this income on your taxes so make sure you don't go over limits affecting your financial aid for school.

You can get an EIN number for employers to send you 1099s so you don't have to use your social.

</comment><comment><USER3> Tutoring, Uber/Lyft, Amazon Flex, Online store, dog walk, day care... there are lot of things you can do.

</comment><comment><USER4> easy way - campus job (not sure gov will restrict that as well, you may want to double check)

harder way - there're many other ways out there that you could make money, think outside of box and not just things around your major / school, you can sell things on ebay, you can programming for others for profit, you can install & setup security camera systems for others for profit.

Generally you want to take advantage of things / information that you know but others don't and transit it into profits. In my own experience that really works, I used to flip things on ebay and made ~$100-300 per day which only required 1-2 hours of work each day. I paid all my tuition and my living expenses with that. Yes, I also did other things to generate profits so don't limit your imagination.

It was hard for me to make the first move (afraid of lose initial investment, uncertainty, afraid of change, working on things I don't have domain expertise, etc), but as long as you are willing to get your hands dirty, you will find ways to make nice money.

</comment><comment><USER5> Why not create your own courses about what you teach and put them up on Udemy? You can make some extra money on the side and learn a new skill of developing courses.

Another option is to start a blog about something you are passionate about. Building an authority site takes time, but you have a few options to make money from it.

</comment><comment><USER6> [http://writepay.blogspot.com/](http://writepay.blogspot.com/)</comment>


Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at San Francisco airport - <AUTHOR> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/04/02/us_customs_mozilla_cto/ <comment><USER2> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19558161](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19558161)

</comment><comment><USER3> His 3 hour detention story sounds awful, but think of the things that didn't happen:

* he wasn't arrested or imprisoned * no cavity search or exercises in humiliation * no mention of his devices being taken out of sight without explanation or simply seized indefinitely

<comment><USER4> The original source is here: [https://medium.com/@andreasgal/no-one-should- have-to-travel-...](https://medium.com/@andreasgal/no-one-should-have-to- travel-in-fear-b2bff4c460e5)

TLDR; The traveller has Global Entry, a privilege for low-risk travellers to skip some customs and immigration procedures.

\- Traveller got selected for a random check.

\- CBP asked generic questions about job history of the person.

\- CBP asked permission to the traveller to unlock laptop and phone.

\- Traveller refused and decided to stay silent and to not comply to any procedures.

<Nothing happens>

\- Traveller released and has to follow standard procedure next time instead of Global Entry (traveller's risk increased, as non complying).

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> My posture has been that you have no more right to keep your devices locked when crossing the border than your briefcase. You have a reduced expecation of privacy when you are crossing international borders. T Courts have repeatedly upheld violations of privacy at the border as legal despite their illegality elsewhere. Assume the government has a legal right to violate your privacy to inspect what is crossing their borders. Even if they don't they will act as if they have that right.

If you transmit data into the US digitally the NSA has a mandate to do whatever they can to snoop at what you're doing. Border security has a similar mandate. This story happened to a CITIZEN who merely lost their express entry pass and was inconvienced and intimidated. A non-citizen can get in a lot more shit than what happened in this case. Especially if they're Arab.

It's generally easier to move encrypted information across borders digitally rather than physically without government interference. It's easier to blend in with the torrent of data moving across the border than it is to fight the law in regards to your right to privacy at the border.</comment>


End of road for trucking startup Palleter - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@MartKelder/end-of-road-for-trucking-startup-palleter-523a4a906fe9 <comment><USER2> > Hypothesis #3: Trucking companies offer competitive pricing for such last > minute offers since available space in a moving truck is a perishable good — > if you don't sell it out the opportunity is forever gone.

Is there a parallel with free seats in airlines? If yes, then the solution is the exact opposite of discounted pricing for last minute offers.

</comment><comment><USER3> _Trucks have much less available space than the Eurostat data leads to believe. Firstly the data only considers cargo weight. So lightweight cargo skews the data. Secondly reporting the data to Eurostat is an annoyance for the trucking companies — so who knows what's in those reports._

To a first approximation, the limiting condition for shipping is bulk not weight. Governments track and regulate weight because weight correlates to wear and tear on infrastructure.</comment>