Tech Industry Really Needs Professors and Teaching Talent - <AUTHOR> https://insights.dice.com/2018/04/30/tech-industry-really-needs-professors-teaching-talent/ <comment><USER2> As has been pointed out before, statistics like these "for every five open faculty positions, only one is filled" are incredibly misleading. The reason only one in five is filled is not because there's a shortage of qualified teachers. It's because the thousand faculty searches going on at any one time are only interested in competing for the same hundred people.

Universities aren't trying to hire someone who can teach undergraduate CS courses. They're trying to hire someone who can build a lab capable of bringing in a steady stream of seven-figure grants. You need to have a PhD from a top-five (ish) school, with an excellent publication record, and an existing network of collaborators to be competitive for the vast majority of open positions.

<comment><USER3> They should also publish the statistics for number of PhDs looking for a job per faculty position open. That would tell the full story.

<comment><USER2> I haven't been on a search committee in years, but in the mid 2000s, I think 3-500 was about the norm for a mid-range state school. Not all those people were qualified, but I think you can assume you'll have somewhere on the order of 2-300 qualified applicants for most jobs.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4>
      It takes five years to mint a Ph.D in computer science,
      and schools such as Stanford need more faculty now.

Looking at [https://cs.stanford.edu/jobs](https://cs.stanford.edu/jobs) I see two job ads - both saying applications are no longer being accepted.

I guess they must have solved their faculty problems since the article was written!

</comment><comment><USER5> Part of the story is new assistant professors in Business are paid an average of about $110K, while new assistant professors in CS are paid and average of under $90K. [https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/03/28/study- finds-c...](https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/03/28/study-finds- continued-large-gaps-faculty-salaries-based-discipline)

The OP is based on this report: [https://www.nap.edu/read/24926/chapter/1](https://www.nap.edu/read/24926/chapter/1), which is starting/pushing the conversation. They write:

"RECOMMENDATION 2.1: Institutions experiencing a computer science enrollment surge should seriously consider an increase in resources to address the rising workload on faculty and staff in computer science and related departments, and the limitations arising from inadequate facilities."

"RECOMMENDATION 2.3: Institutional leadership should engage directly with computer science departments or programs to develop appropriate faculty hiring and faculty size targets, and develop strategies to improve faculty retention. Increasing the number and enhancing the role of academic-rank teaching faculty should be given serious consideration."

"RECOMMENDATION 2.4: Larger institutions—in particular, research universities—should reevaluate the organizational placement of the computer science department and other departmental units with a computational mission."

Basically, "Give CS a better deal"

<comment><USER6> It's hard to fire someone or lower their salary when economic conditions change, so it makes sense for academia to be a bit conservative here. What happens if interest rates rise, VC funding goes down, and there are lots fewer tech jobs in the future? You're stuck with a bunch of high paid professors and low CS enrollment.

There could be a structural change that from here on we'll need a larger number of CS professors, but I can see why the universities are being conservative.

<comment><USER7> I don't think "assistant professors" have tenure do they

<comment><USER8> True, but raising assistant professor's salaries puts pressure on associate professor salaries, and they are tenured.

Not to say the whole lot of them shouldn't get raises; one thing missed in this discussion is that CS programs are counter-cyclical, when there's a downturn in the tech industry and it's hard to find a job, more candidates opt for getting a masters in CS instead of going into industry/finding a new job after a layoff.

<comment><USER9> There's a stupid amount of variation in academic compensation. I think a lot of it comes down to people early in the pipe having ludicrously low expectations, after many years of PhD stipends turning into a kinda laughable postdoc salary. People coming back from industry (eg, to business schools) know better how to negotiate and have higher expectations. But might have a harder time getting in the door from industry in STEM areas, because it's still pretty easy to get cheap kids from the postdoc pipeline.

Here's the transparent california list of UC salaries: [https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/2016/university-o...](https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/2016/university- of-california) The highest salaries are for surgeon profs, which, ok, sure, why not?

Here's 50 prof's in the PROF-AY job with total comp >$450K; lots of them in econ, based on some light perusal. The very-tenured math profs I worked with seem to be in the range of ~$150K total comp, by comparison. [https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/search/?q=PROF- AY...](https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/search/?q=PROF- AY-B/E/E&y=2016)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I would also say that the tech industry desperately needs a better understanding of what constitutes the professional practitioner skill set, and how to teach and measure it.

Many or most of the individual contributing practitioners I've encountered in my varied career across companies big (Microsoft, Google) and small (startups early and mid-stage) consist of individual contributors who either fall up into management or otherwise happily and unwittingly peak out in their skill set.

The typical "high-quality" Senior Engineer is "smart and get things done" (Junior) plus a little bit of experiential knowledge peppered in with cold hard years on the resume.

But there's a craft and skill set to this work that takes (1) a very focussed (presently, self-) training effort and value system and (2) takes years to master, but where the payoff is enormous (i.e, where the 10x/Nx productivity gain is found.)

That last statement is theory only inasmuch as it challenged by those that don't want to believe that they're far from (the, or their) peak; I know it to be true.

As a hint to what that skill set is, it's fairly simple to talk about descriptively...the end result being building systems from composable, contract-based abstractions of course respecting and knowing the current available tools and how to wield them. The problem is able-to-describe and able-to-do are miles apart; it takes many, many years of _conscious, directed effort_ to perfect the craft. The few people I encounter that have that ability had to care about it and muscle through it on their own. We need something closer to an organized pedagogy and training and _measurement_ around this particular skillset to produce much more of it in the industry.

The problem is that any given business rightly has no interest in the kind of long-term investment required. And, at large, academia for many reasons doesn't have the practitioner context/focus/awareness to deliver the skill set, either.

There's a hole to fill here somewhere...

</comment><comment><USER11> Tenure-track faculty positions are hard to fill in this tech market no doubt. However, with multi-billion endowment at top schools, couldn't they pay competitively at least for part-time lecturers with PhD and some teaching experience, who might be working in the industry, to fill in requisite teaching needs?

I guess if the above is adopted, there could be issues with part-time adjuncts getting higher hourly rate, by some measure, than tenure-track faculty. Thus, a market-based bonus which could fluctuate with market conditions of each field for tenured or tenure-track faculty members should be considered.

Added: By hard-to-fill, I meant hard-to-fill to the qualification threshold of research universities implicitly referred to in the article.

<comment><USER12> >However, with multi-billion endowment at top schools, couldn't they pay competitively at least for part-time lecturers with PhD and some teaching experience, who might be working in the industry, to fill in requisite teaching needs?

No. That could result in CS people (esp. non-tenured ones) making more money than beginning business professors, and that simply cannot be tolerated. Instead, they need to just keep salaries for CS people low, and then whine to the press about how they can't fill all their CS positions.

A lot of corporations do the same thing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> _Possible solutions include a program that takes Ph.Ds in other disciplines and runs them through a yearlong course in computer science, which gives them a Master's degree. That qualifies them to teach CS courses, Roberts explained, and sets them up in a department where the prospect for tenure is greater. "We need more of those," he added. "Universities are in a bind. Market forces will not solve this problem."_

This is interesting. Depending on admissions standards for that program, I could see a ton of people from other disciplines jumping at it. The issue, of course, is that people would have to have a strong background to be competent to teach any kind of CS in a year. And the people with that background probably aren't the people looking for a career change.

Just thinking about myself for example---I'd probably be better qualified than most people with phds in another discipline for such a thing, since I'm moderately quantitative and semi-decent at coding, but I don't think I would be qualified to teach college-level CS on the basis of a year of transition education.

</comment><comment><USER11> As someone who could be interested in teaching part-time, how much is the workload (in hours per week) one needs to spend when teaching an undergrad/grad course?

Would a good 4-year university accept an adjunct who holds a Master's degree from a top-10 CS program, but not a PhD, to teach an upper-level course (that does correspond to the person's area of specialty)?

\---

Added: Thank you for all the ideas and esp detailed explanation from tom_b. It sounds like more work than I can allocate time for in the near term. Perhaps in the future.

I thought up an alternative: Join/organize meetups and occasionally give talks or participate in panel discussions about recent/latest research sounds like more fun and less work than teaching in a formal setting. (Posted here in case someone would like to make use of the idea.)

<comment><USER14> >Would a good 4-year university accept an adjunct who holds a Master's degree from a top-10 CS program, but not a PhD, to teach an upper-level course (that does correspond to their area of specialty)?

They may, but adjuncts are poorly paid, and often have fewer benefits, than faculty members. Many adjuncts often have no real guarantee they'll have a job the following semester/year. They are the first to get axed when there are budget problems.

And frankly, having spent time in academia, they do have a significant ego problem. Adjuncts will be treated poorly by professors. Many lower level courses will have a "director" who is a professor, and he will usually treat the adjunct poorly. Rarely do adjuncts have freedom in what homework is assigned and what the syllabus will be.

<comment><USER15> > Many adjuncts often have no real guarantee they'll have a job the following > semester/year. They are the first to get axed when there are budget > problems.

So pretty much like every job I've ever had in the private sector.

<comment><USER14> >So pretty much like every job I've ever had in the private sector.

Yes, but with a lot higher pay, and often with better insurance, etc. And your work experience in industry has more weight. I don't know how employable a person is if their only experience is teaching.

Just looked up two of them in a nearby university. 12 month salary is $75-80K. No stocks, bonuses, etc. Both have MS degrees.

It is a decent salary if the job is not stressful, and you are in a dual income family. But job security is likely poorer than in industry.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> So like the supposed STEM shortage? Is there really a lack of qualified candidates? Or is there simply a lack of applicants because the pay is too low or the requirements are too stringent?

<comment><USER17> So much to unpack here. The STEM label itself is extremely misleading. There are opportunities in TE (technology and engineering) but not in SM (science and math -- well unless you get a PhD, but even then maybe not).

So people hear STEM shortage and go major in chemistry or biology and then find out there are few and poorly paid jobs so they have to accept that or get an advanced degree. Some simplification here, and individual exceptions exist of course.

<comment><USER16> That's a fair point. I've always heard it in the context of "STEM", but I think it was more referring to the technology area (primarily programmers, etc.). And even then I want to say it was about companies wanting cheap developers or specialists. So there's only a shortage if you're unwilling to pay the common rates.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> is it possible for something like this to happen: a huge shortage continues, and the demand for CS goes up, so the salaries for CS professors goes up thus making this position enticing once more?

<comment><USER19> That's basically how the market works, but how much that happens depends on the extent to which universities are actually willing to pay more for things they think/say they don't have enough of.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> I thought they were building AI for that</comment>


RIP: Robin Milner - <AUTHOR> http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/pipermail/types-list/2010/001478.html <comment><USER2> For anyone that uses an ML (e.g. OCaml), Haskell or Scala, Milner was responsible for the Hindley-Milner type system and inference algorithm that sits at the foundation of these languages.

It ignited a wave of research into type theory that continues to this day, yet in many ways, Hindley-Milner is still the most significant contribution to the field.

I remember reading his original paper on polymorphic typing for my qualifiers and being struck by the elegance and approachability of his writing.

Well worth a read.

<comment><USER3> Any chance you could post some info about the paper? I've been itching to learn more about how type inferencing (especially polymorphic type inferencing) works.

EDIT: I don't know if it's the paper you were referring to, but I did find this: [http://groups.csail.mit.edu/pag/6.883/readings/p207-damas.pd...](http://groups.csail.mit.edu/pag/6.883/readings/p207-damas.pdf)

<comment><USER2> Milner, Robin (1978), "A Theory of Type Polymorphism in Programming", Jcss 17: 348–375

I don't know if there's a free copy online anywhere.

The Damas-Milner paper is the sequel; it presents an alternate algorithm for type inference.

Benjamin Pierce's "Orange Book" is one of the best references now.

<comment><USER4> [http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=A+Theory+of+Type+Polymor...](http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=A+Theory+of+Type+Polymorphism+in+Programming&hl=en&btnG=Search&as_sdt=2001&as_sdtp=on)

First link.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> It's almost impossible to over-state his contributions to computer science, particularly within programming languages, theorem proving and concurrency theory. I never met him, but I have followed and admired his work for some time, and this is a real loss to the community.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> More information on his incredible contributions to computer science: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Milner>

<comment><USER6> One of the references in the Wikipedia article is this long interview covering the major points of his life and work:

[http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/users/mfb21/interviews/m...](http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/users/mfb21/interviews/milner/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> I purchased 'Communicating and Mobil Systems: the Pi-Calculus' last week. [http://www.amazon.com/Communicating-Mobile-Systems-Robin- Mil...](http://www.amazon.com/Communicating-Mobile-Systems-Robin- Milner/dp/0521658691/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269273606&sr=1-11). This is the first computing theory book I have read. It's quite readable and very well written.

<comment><USER8> Is it so that CS-books face an increase in value when the author have a passed away? Kinda like with art, where the author/artist never sees the pleasure of economical benefits during his/hers lifespan. But when death occurs -- that will be the ultimate marketing effort as we can take the time and sum up a person intellectual contributions....hmm..does this wanna make you work harder or what?

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> From Wikipedia .. Doctoral advisor None, as Milner never did a PhD[1] Doctoral students - about 19

</comment><comment><USER10> Robin Milner was indeed one of a kind. One of the Great Masters of Computing, for sure. I'm currently taking a class on models for Concurrent Computing, and the first subject is Milner's CCS: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculus_of_communicating_syste...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculus_of_communicating_systems)

The way he thinks about processes, communication and synchronization is just beautiful. When I was able to "prove" that the implementation of a two-bit buffer as a chain of two one-bit buffers actually behaves as specified, it was as enlightening as when I first saw a higher order function in Scheme.

</comment><comment><USER11> That is sad news.

I guess the annual lecture at Edinburgh will be a memorial lecture now <http://www.lfcs.inf.ed.ac.uk/events/milner-lecture>.

</comment><comment><USER12> How very, very sad! He gave us a lecture just two years ago...

</comment><comment><USER13> Died from sorrow, not from old age.</comment>


Show HN: A game site for programmers - <AUTHOR> https://pointatinfinity.com/eight <comment><AUTHOR> I put out my first game on Point at Infinity. My long term goal is to have a lot of games that are playable via API. I started with the classic slide puzzle. Feedback is appreciated!

<comment><USER2> Games playable by API sounds really interesting.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Why can't Google determine ownership of copyright - <AUTHOR> I have recently submitted multiple DMCA requests to Google re a new site plagiarising the entire contents of a site which has been in existence for over 12 years.
I have provided archive.org URLs which clearly show the content has been in existence for multiple years (since 2006).
However, in some instances Google are stating they can not determine I am the copyright owner and have rejected, so far, 2 instances despite accepting more than 50 similar examples?
What is more galling though is that the offending site is currently ranking #1 in search for the titles of both offending pages. My own pages are nowhere to be seen.
This isn't the first time this has happened and I am beginning to wonder if it just isn't a simple reverse seo strategy that anyone with a bit of time on their hands can implement?
I should add that I am in the UK and the other site's host is US based. They are not being helpful either, thus far their response has been to say 'get a lawyer'. <comment><USER2> Because they don't want to respect copyright law.

You might not be able to find any given song or movie on a given day on YouTube but it is close. Sure they will take down a music video i make it it starts with the first few bars of a pink Floyd song but that is just to prove they do something.

</comment><comment><USER3> Are you filing DMCA requests?

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes</comment></comment>


Cognito as the Worse AWS Product? - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/aws-amplify/amplify-js/issues/3495 <comment><USER2> OP, while I agree that amazon has done a bad job on this case (and possibly the whole product, I never used cognito), your manners are completely unacceptable regardless of your frustatrion.

There are polite ways of complaining and your behavior is simply unprofessional.</comment>


Ask HN: Are Udactiy, Coursera, Udemy taking advantage of students? - <AUTHOR> Are these companies taking advantage of students? They show big dreams to student that after their degree completion they get jobs. But in reality only very very less students is getting jobs who already have some background in that field.<p>Udacity is creating fascinating nano degrees to just grab the students and they are charging huge  amount of fee from students. Is these degree have some worth. <comment><USER2> Absolutely not and I'm sorry you feel that way. Graduate success (either moving into a new career or moving up in their current career) is one of our company OKRs that we measure, track the data on, and one of the ways we determine if we're doing a good job or not.

If you're one of our students, and not seeing that success, we have a lot of services to help you. I encourage you to take advantage of our resume reviews, the alumni community, the mentors, and the mock interviews we offer. It definitely takes practice and hard work to land these jobs, they are very competitive, but we're here to make sure you're a top notch candidate when applying and interviewing.</comment>


Ask HN: Are there any HN-style web sites with mechanical engineering content? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> Nothing really _HN_ style but:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/Skookum/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Skookum/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/machinists/](https://www.reddit.com/r/machinists/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEngineers/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEngineers/)

<comment><USER3> How is Reddit not HN style except for how it looks? (You also can make it look like 2004, i do that, its just a setting, not even an extension or some BS)

I mean the Sub system maybe, thats it. I think theyre pretty similiar

<comment><USER4> The top post in /r/machinists is a picture of a rubber glove with a face drawn on it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> As a tangential point, I run a tool that lets you manage a HN style community - hellobox.co - would love for you to try it out if you like!

[https://www.hellobox.co](https://www.hellobox.co)

<comment><USER6> Just signed up! I've been annoyed with how Meetup.com is treating forums and their new "discussion" feature and I want to move communication/knowledge sharing for my local CSS Meetup to an alternative platform. Am also looking at Discourse as well.

<comment><USER5> Hi Navs. Thanks. Do let me know if you need any help! :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Well I do a hell of a lot of mechanical engineering (or maybe you'd call it mechanical design, idk) on my robotics community site, [http://reboot.love](http://reboot.love)

See this post I wrote yesterday on how to 3D print the gearboxes. [http://reboot.love/t/guide-getting-started-building- rover/17...](http://reboot.love/t/guide-getting-started-building-rover/178)

Not sure if that is the kind of thing you're looking for.

</comment><comment><USER8> There are occasional mechanical engineering articles on HN, and I would welcome more.

</comment><comment><USER9> I'm not aware of one, but the Lobsters codebase with very similar functionality is available if you'd like to start one: [https://github.com/lobsters/lobsters](https://github.com/lobsters/lobsters)

You can get help in #lobsters on Freenode. If you know Rails, deploying to Heroku is an afternoon job; using the provided ansible scripts on a bare VPS is a day or two.

</comment><comment><USER10> The [http://www.eng-tips.com](http://www.eng-tips.com) engineering forums are okeish in that sense, with a good mix of academics and practitioners.

</comment><comment><USER11> You spelt "google" wrong on your sign up form [https://www.hellobox.co/a/hello/home#/register](https://www.hellobox.co/a/hello/home#/register)

<comment><USER12> Wow, compared to the rest of the sleek site, that is so incredibly obvious.

That makes me think it was an intentional typo.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Not _HN_ style either, but lots of content: _Library Genesis_.</comment>


Why the end of scarcity will change the economics of everything - <AUTHOR> http://mashable.com/2011/04/28/scarcity-economics/

<comment><USER2> Not to detract from the significance of this incredible revolution in technology we are all a part of, but it begs mentioning that the majority of commercial activity is divorced from this paradigm. Regardless, the headline is sensationalist, even if you limit your sample to "digital content."

It's still the wild west out there, so people approach the production of (commercial) digital content without enough economic realism. When this domain is more established, I don't believe (commercial) digital content will be such a commodity.

I mean, use common sense: aren't YOU suffering from an inability to differentiate between what is and is not worth paying attention to online? Wouldn't you "pay-to-play" if someone got it really, really, really right? I know I would.

</comment><comment><USER3> When you say "the end of scarcity", most of us think of unlimited energy and raw material. The OP is really just talking about information (which is significant, but truly in a different league).

This echoes the "Information wants to be free" mantra/movement/slogan/whatever. While this movement is quite old (relatively speaking) and widespread, I find that Wired is still one of the more on-the- ball publications with respect to this (they talk about it a lot, and generally cover it well).

<comment><USER4> _Information wants to be free_

I have personally always thought that argument to be entirely BS. A piece of software can be considered information; it's just bits in order. Therefore, it should be free. Music can be considered information for the same reasons. It's a convenient argument, because it gets us all the things we want, for free! But EVERYTHING is information. YOU, YOU are just information, and so is that computer in front of you, and the chair under you. Are you also free (as in beer)?

Information requires effort and/or investment to create, and personally I feel the "information wants to be free" folks like to simply wax over that to further their own interests.

<comment><USER5> It's not that it should be free, it's that it will eventually be free.

You seem to be looking at this from a kind of moral point of view, but "information wan't to be free" is not meant to be a value statement. It's meant to be an observation about information.

<comment><USER4> If it's an observation, why is it pushed like an agenda and used like a justification?

<comment><USER6> Any time any concept is reduced to a pithy sentence it will be appropriated by people to use as an agenda.

Something about these types of clever sayings shortcuts our brains. People use that fact to take advantage.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Scarcity is still there..even with digital content. Can anyone create Adobe Photoshop with a few mouse clicks (not a digital copy, but an original)? If not, then there is a scarcity: in the talent that creates such content.

Sure, anyone with a computer can start a blog..but only the people with quality, original, content will get continue to get the traffic.

What's changed is people's mindsets..which I predicted would happen back in '99. Piracy advocates claim there is no direct correlation between piracy and loss sales. This may be the case on a 1-1 case, but in the long-run, if you do nothing about pirated content, the value in people's minds slowly starts to approach $0. This is because all digital content is just like currency: it's value is only what people think it's worth. If know you can easily download something for free, why bother paying for it?

This is why I no longer write applications, only services. Any apps that I release are directly tied to a monthly service and are useless without it.

<comment><USER8> Do people really think the value of something is 0$ just because they can get it for free? That is cost. The cost of me watching the latest blockbuster on my computer may be 0$ but I don't honestly believe it's value is 0$. You are right in saying that value is only what people think it's worth but I don't think people who pirate actually believe the content is worth nothing. The real mindset people have is if cost < value then screw value all together. This has always been the case.

Cost is becoming less of an issue online though, with simpler payments, content priced appropriately, and an increased "lock you out" if you try to get stuff for free.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> This article is a bit facile and ignores data that disprove their point.

They hold Twitter as a model for the "end of scarcity" and yet Twitter has put the kibosh on new tweet clients?

If anything, scarcity is even more abundant with all this abundance. Scarcity of user attention/memory isn't going away. Scarcity of IP with an increasing patent minefield; We still might be looking at coming bandwidth restrictions as the ISPs lower their thresholds to tax the internet services and users.

This article reminds me of the original dot-com bubble and how Wired and other tech-saavy digests were crowing about DOW hitting 40k and the abundance economy, the long boom... that didn't end well.

</comment><comment><USER10> The arguments about universities are based on flawed assumptions, ie that you go there to "get" knowledge from professors. In fact, the knowledge has always been there to get, should you wish. Universities are there to put like minds together and allow them to develop wider skills and give them the resources to extend our collective knowledge. We've had public libraries with easily available educational content for over a century.

</comment><comment><USER11> For this to happen, we need the replicators from Star Trek. At that point, it WILL change everything

<comment><USER12> Scarcity will end when both these Star Trek ideas come true:

1) Every trinket can be produced en masse with a precious mingling of magic, unicorns and nanotechnology

2) Consumerism ends. One could argue there are enough resources and means of production on the world for everyone. It's just that the "haves" want more and more, and then throw it away and want even more.

Otherwise -- A Star Trek replicator would just speed up the treadmill of consumerism. You can have any toy you want instantly. In our current society, this would probably mean that fashions change every three minutes, and the rich part of the population will use so much energy that the have-nots will still be deprived of even basic living conditions.

<comment><USER13> It would speed up the consumerism but only for a short time until people find a new way to signal their social standing.

<comment><USER12> You might be right. But, looking at history, I'm always more conservative about predictions as to changes in human nature than in level of technology.

On the other hand, consumerism as we know it really only exists for about 100 years. It might be a passing fad.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> There's a lot of talk about this from time to time, but it's nothing new. For example, the book _Free: The Future of a Radical Price_ by Chris Anderson discussed it extensively in human-readable language. 1st edition was July 2009.</comment>


Pedal Power Generator - <AUTHOR> http://www.los-gatos.ca.us/davidbu/pedgen.html <comment><USER2> > _30 minute average output (back when I was in shape) 150 Watts_

So in Australia, electricity is relatively expensive at around 30 cents per kWh. This means 150 Watts for 30mins is worth 30c * 0.5hr * 0.150kW = 2.25 cents... for 30mins of vigorous exercise...

The reality is electricity is incredibly cheap to buy in most countries and human powered generation is completely infeasible for practical use...

[1] [https://www.canstarblue.com.au/electricity/electricity- costs...](https://www.canstarblue.com.au/electricity/electricity-costs-kwh/)</comment>


UK Royalty Group Wants Piracy "Cap and Trade" ISP Levy - <AUTHOR> http://www.zeropaid.com/news/89911/uk-royalty-group-wants-piracy-cap-and-trade-isp-levy/ <comment><USER2> I will buy into a proposal like this when it comes with a commitment to using a specific methodology - one biased in favor of maximizing revenue to small content creators rather than high-profile ones who already derive economic benefit from celebrity.

However, I do think this is a step in the right direction and worth reading, because it eschews the usual 'OMG pirates' for a more pragmatic economic analysis, cautiously endorses the economic benefits of 'fair use' and non- commercial reuse, and abandons the adversarial approach in pursuit of a more stable equilibrium.

[http://www.prsformusic.com/creators/news/research/Documents/...](http://www.prsformusic.com/creators/news/research/Documents/Will%20Page%20and%20David%20Touve%20\(2010\)%20Moving%20Digital%20Britain%20Forward%20without%20leaving%20Creative%20Britain%20behind.pdf)</comment>


Raiders of the Lost Web (2015) - <AUTHOR> https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/10/raiders-of-the-lost-web/409210/?single_page=true <comment><AUTHOR> notes:

1) I didn't mean to submit this URL, really; I thought I'd be redirected to the existing submission. That can be found here (2015): [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10387071](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10387071)

2) Ironically, the lost-and-resurrected journalism series that this article opens with describing, "The Crossing," appears unavailable once again. [http://thecrossingstory.com/chapters/index.html](http://thecrossingstory.com/chapters/index.html) responds with a 503. It's possible this is temporary due to increased interest in the topic due to today's story about Joy Reid: [https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/04/the-e...](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/04/the- evidence-is-not-with-joy-reid/558935/)

3) Luckily, the Internet Archive does have a copy of The Crossing today: [https://web.archive.org/web/20151127150800/http://thecrossin...](https://web.archive.org/web/20151127150800/http://thecrossingstory.com/chapters/index.html)

Major props to the folks at the Internet Archive <3</comment>


Ask HN: YC Fellowship, was it succesful? Will it be repeated? - <AUTHOR> It's been a few months since YC Fellowship ended.
https://fellowship.ycombinator.com/apply/
I wanted to know if possible if it worked out for all parties involved (Y Combinator and the startups), and especially if Y Combinator is thinking about bringing it back in some form (maybe applying some lessons from the first batch) :) . Should we expect an announcement or lessons learned article any time soon? <comment><USER2> > We're going to continue doing YC Fellowship (!), and Kevin Hale is going to > be the managing partner of that.

\-- 4 days ago, [http://blog.ycombinator.com/yc-updates-and- additions](http://blog.ycombinator.com/yc-updates-and-additions)

<comment><AUTHOR> Awesome, thank you :) . My bad, I did a Google search but I didn't think of looking at the source.</comment></comment>


Artificial Brain Has Grown from 256 Neurons to 64M Neurons in 6 Years - <AUTHOR> https://www.singularityarchive.com/ibms-artificial-brain-has-grown-from-256-neurons-to-64-million-neurons-in-6-years/ <comment><USER2> I don't believe any of the claims that this article makes.

<comment><USER3> Well. You're at least half right - the article is based off a recent press release talking about a computer that IBM "will" be building. So no, it does not exist yet.

[https://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/52657.wss](https://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/52657.wss)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> "Just like a biological brain the system is designed for extreme energy efficiency, It requires only 10 watts to power all 64 million neurons and 16 billion synapses."

A real human has 100B neurons and the whole body is only 100W, with the brain estimated at around 20W; theirs would require 15kW.</comment>


Startup Cheat Codes - <AUTHOR> http://www.ecquire.com/blog/startup-cheat-codes/

<comment><USER2> Bonus tips:

\- Save space on your bookshelves by tearing all the pages out

\- Hire actors to be your friends and family

\- Wear a suit once and return it

\- Wine tastings help you forget

</comment><comment><USER3> Fucking hell that's an awful post.

Lean Startup is great but you should realise the value of investing in good design. Don't go down a rabbit hole of 'big vision' design perfection straight away, sure (a $50k set of Photoshop comps before you've got product-market fit isn't a great idea) _but_ you're not going to get very far with a fucking Unbounce template.

Hire a good designer—one who knows how to do 'early stage startup'—and flourish.

<comment><USER4> I tend to agree. The "start-up"-term has become so bloated that it hardly make any sense any more. To churn out hundreds of generic landing-pages based on templates, built with "start-up generators" wont create anything of value.

"Don't have a product - no problem!" Get your idea out there and get that seed-round running - then you can surely hire some eager developer-monkeys to do the implementation.. wrong. IMHO a start-up is a game-changing idea; unique and ahead of it's time. Developing it should take time, and it should be risky - if not it will already have been done.

<comment><USER5> > The "start-up"-term has become so bloated that it hardly make any sense any > more

> IMHO a start-up is a ...

Ironic. :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I'm a single founder. Even though I know I must delegate, I still have difficulty putting it in practice.

I'm told that I must focus on the business side of things, and outsource (some parts of) development. Being a programmer myself, I always think that "good programmers are expensive, and cheap programmers are not good", so it hinders me from hiring my peers.

How do you guys handle this situation? Esp. if you're perfectionist (I believe many programmers are).

<comment><USER7> To quote the old adage, "Quality, Speed, Cost: Pick any two."

Quality is possible without cost, but the speed at which you will acquire those developers is low. You will need to hunt from the bargain bin of inexperienced and/or overseas developers. You will choose poorly and you have to be ok with that. Create a process where you can let go the developers who don't work out and retain those who do easily. Parallelize this process if possible. Your local college, local programming user groups, and online contract work websites may be good places to stat looking.

<comment><USER8> Shouldn't that be Good/Fast/Cheap? Basically means the same and is known as the Trilemma :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> The things that irked me most about this terrible article have to do with the absence of any real product that "startup" has to offer, and when it does talk about making a product it's more a cumbersome afterthought than anything else.

 _Don 't I need a product? Nah, let's not get ahead of ourselves here._

 _Hey, just outsource that onerous coding task to some monkey, it 's not important._

Don't get me wrong, not every founder needs to be able to do technical stuff. But I believe _some_ understanding of what it is that you want to build is essential. If I had a cent for every time some "ideas guy" asks me to think through his entire product for the first time and then build it for a couple hundred bucks I'd have ...more than 20 cents I think. For some reason the same cheapness showcased in the article always coincides with the most clueless people.

<comment><USER10> >Hey, just outsource that onerous coding task to some monkey, it's not important.

I don't think that's a fair characterization of the author's advice about outsourcing, which I think is pretty clearly a relatively smart way to do outsourcing. They are not saying to outsource all of your coding, but to pick well-encapsulated units with a clear spec, and outsource those.

That makes sense, because doing it that way means that you can completely tear out that component and rewrite it later if needed.

<comment><USER9> You have a point. Maybe it's not quite fair if you just take the paragraph about outsourcing, but it all slides into place if you look at the entire article. Of course, having clearly-defined components is a good idea, and maybe _I am_ somewhat weary from experience with these people. But the overall impression this article leaves just conjures these images up for me.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I'm thinking of creating a startup, but I'm a busy guy. Can I pay someone else to make it for me? I'd still collect the profits of course.

<comment><USER12> I've not even got time to coordinate outsourcing my impending fortune. You can forward those profits to my checking account.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> A much better, more useful article than I guessed from the title.

The author signposts fast / cheap ways of getting (the things that take ages/money) done. Mostly this consists of paying someone to do it. I hadn't come across (or though of) a lot of the services he links. Very useful.

</comment><comment><USER14> I assumed this article is some kind of a joke but after reading the comments, I seem to be wrong?

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I found some of the resources in this article very helpful, such as Stylate, which looks like it can quickly provide value for a specific aspect of your startup. In terms of making mockups before diving into making the actual product, the author is advocating doing that for gauging customer interest in the product. You wouldn't sell mockups of a product in place of the actual product itself.

</comment><comment> johnx123-up List is good. But, I'm not sure why the author is recommending costly HTMLBoutique instead of cssilize ($35 + pms + w3c standards)

</comment><comment><USER15> How did this get on the front page of HN? Following those steps if you want to go out of business before starting :)

</comment><comment><USER16> > You can get fantastic [design] work for the price of a beer – definitely for > under $20.

Bullshit.

<comment><USER17> Your evidence-based, nuanced response is most helpful, thank you. Are you a designer by chance?

(Someimes good enough is good enough)

<comment><USER18> > > fantastic [design] work...

> (Someimes good enough ...

Can you see the problem here?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> That's a solid advice. It's all about MVP + fast release cycle these days.

<comment><USER20> absolutely , for example i didn't knew stylate which is pretty cool imo.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Out of curiosity I checked out ecquire's homepage and without watching the video, I had no idea what the product actually was. The supposed 'great headlines and content' are non-existent.

</comment><comment><USER22> ...because we all know the way to make your start-up successful is to begin by looking for the easy way out for every possible decision...

</comment><comment><USER23> Don't worry about thinking carefully or critically! No time for that! Get a website up now!

</comment><comment><USER24> I guess the thing to take from this is dont waste energy on shit thay doesbt really matter

</comment><comment><USER25> Use two phones without ringtones so you're always on the offence, never defence.</comment>


Feynman on Science vs. Religion and Why Uncertainty Is Central to Morality - <AUTHOR> https://www.brainpickings.org/2015/05/11/richard-feynman-science-religion/ <comment><USER2> One of the most brilliant thinkers of the past century

<comment><AUTHOR> Most definitely, his works in literature are brilliant even for non- scientists!</comment></comment>


Show HN: A "Flat UI"-style color scheme for your text editor - <AUTHOR> http://toychesttheme.com

<comment><USER2> simply beautiful!</comment>


The Story of PDP-1 (1998) - <AUTHOR> https://gordonbell.azurewebsites.net/digital/timeline/pdp-1story.htm <comment><USER2> It's also a bit of a tragic story. The PDP-1 was designed by Ben Gurley, an engineer at DEC. He took just 3.5 months to build the machine. Tragically, Gurley was later murdered in 1963 while eating dinner with his family, when a co-worker fired a rifle through the window of his house. The co-worker was later admitted to a hospital of the criminally insane, where he died.

<comment><USER3> Wow. Here is a story about that story:

[https://www.informationweek.com/desktop/updikes-passing- reca...](https://www.informationweek.com/desktop/updikes-passing-recalls- brush-with-murdered-computer-designer/d/d-id/1076620)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Maybe interesting: A log of implementing a video game (Computer Space) for the PDP-1 over a month, a project for RetroChallenge 2016/10:

[https://www.masswerk.at/rc2016/10/](https://www.masswerk.at/rc2016/10/)

(The experience was great and the instruction set is a joy to use. The single time, I felt somewhat hindered, was due to the limit of just up to 3 characters for any names to be used for assembler variables, notably not the PDP-1's fault. BTW, the games runs at 60 frames a second.)

<comment><USER5> I was at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View yesterday and got to play Spacewar!, the game that inspired Computer Space (amongst other things), on their restored PDP-1. Stephen Russell and Peter Samson were on hand to chat about it.

Sounds like something they do at the museum regularly, worth a visit

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Here's another interesting read in a similar vein... "The Soul of a New Machine", a Pulitzer Prize winning book about the creation of a new computer at Data General Corporation.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Soul_of_a_New_Machine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Soul_of_a_New_Machine)

<comment><USER7> This is an incredible book, largely worth a read or two.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> My first Data Processing job (pre-IT) was an operator on DEC PDP-11/45\. Later we upgraded to a DEC PDP-11/70.

In Australia, we had 10% of the world's Pick systems. I have use Wang OIS, Data General RDOS, IBM System AS400 and a few others as well.

I threw away an original DEC Flea Circus (Field Service) leather toolkit as the Australian Computer Museum does not have any more room.

</comment><comment><USER9> Core memory from this era is elegant and beautiful.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic- core_memory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic-core_memory)

<comment><USER10> I once heard a story about how Brazil used to manufacture magnetic-core memory. When production stopped, lots of people lost their jobs and somehow this shaped Brazil's computer policy (they basically closed the market to foreign companies). But I haven't been able to find any proof of this.

<comment><USER11> The reserved market policy was created in 1977 specifically to keep IBM from launching their minicomputer, which would have preemptively killed off the effort by the government owned company Cobra (which would only launch their 530 mini in 1980)

The relation with jobs was that the policy had full support from academics who were upset that foreign companies would hire their engineering students only for sales, with all design work done in their home countries. I am not aware of any big stink about factory line workers losing their jobs.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Those were he days: "the computer is available in word lengths of 18, 24, 30, or 36 bits". You can do multiplication using an instruction or via subroutine (why?)

<comment> nils-m-holm Early PDP-1's had the MUS (MUltiply Step) operation, which had to be applied repeatedly in order to perform multiplication. Singe-step multipy (MUL) was first available as an extension, later it became the default.

<comment><USER4> More on the multiply and divide subroutines at [https://www.masswerk.at/spacewar/inside/insidespacewar- pt6-g...](https://www.masswerk.at/spacewar/inside/insidespacewar- pt6-gravity.html#excursus) – automating these subroutines in hardware meant adding a special clock, which would take over control in order to perform the according steps.</comment></comment></comment>


YCNewsers: Help me create better online bookmarking - <AUTHOR> http://ninua.wufoo.com/forms/help-me-create-better-online-bookmarking/ <comment><USER2> I don't use social bookmarking, it has never appealed to me. Browser based bookmarking has always been sufficient for me, and I don't spend much time "browsing" the internet, I am typically trying to find something specific, so a general search engine is usually sufficient for me.

Some features that might make me more likely to use social bookmarking: OpenID accounts, really simple and good search, RSS for tags (no doubt this already exists), syncing with my bookmarks on all the browsers I use and aggregating them in one spot, letting me save my bookmarks to a bookmark file readable by Firefox... thats all of the top of my head, although fundamentally I don't think they fit in my life flow :/

<comment><USER3> I'll second the syncing across browsers. What I read and search for at work is drastically different from what I read and search for at home so I've ended up with two distinct sets of 'marks and my del.icio.us account is chaotic beyond hope of simplifying the problem.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I use the new one in the Google Toolbar as it's a single button press (star) to add it. No dialogs or anything. I can't be bothered with tagging or confirmation dialogs. I just want to press a single button and have the browser remember it.

[http://www.google.com/support/firefox/bin/static.py?page=features.html&v;=3](http://www.google.com/support/firefox/bin/static.py?page=features.html&v=3)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. So, I understand the convenience of the one click, but how do you organize your bookmarks? Isn't it hard to find things when you it's a long list? Especially if you have many bookmarks?

<comment><USER5> Now you mention it, I am not a big fan of the "flat list" organizing principle, as popularized by iTunes. If you can think of anything to better organize bookmarks, you might be on to something. However, I also usually prefer to keep them on my local computer and not to share them with the world.

<comment><USER6> database tables are a flat list, but that doesn't mean that the they aren't organized. I usually search my flat list of bookmarks chronologically and by searching for some keywords.

<comment><USER5> I guess you could map the whole universe to a flat list, that wasn't my point ;-)

With iTunes or thousands of bookmarks, I find that I can't "stumble upon" things anymore - I have to know what I am looking for, so that I can search it. I used to have my music simply organized in folders, and it was so much easier to browse (and still searchable).

Of course the iTunes style allows for new ways of stumbling across music, like "all songs that beginn with the Letter A", but I prefer the "old way" so far.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Most people I talk to (outside of the Web2.0 crowd) have never even heard of social bookmarking, so I think there is a great opportunity here waiting to be discovered. I want to hear from you guys what you like and dislike about what's available today. Especially from those of you who don't use an online bookmarking web site. Why don't you?

<comment><USER7> Are your interests in social bookmarking (a la delicious/clipmarks..) or social annotation (diigo/fleck/stickis/trailfire ...) ?

The scene is pretty crowded and traction will be very difficult unless you have significant differentiator.

Based on my prior experience getting friends/family to use a social bookmarking service , most folks don't use any because organizing bookmarks never gets elevated to problem from a mere inconvenience. They have to shown thats it's really really easy before they become converts. Your trick is going to be how to reach this audience.

<comment><AUTHOR> That's exactly my problem, and that's why I'm searching for new ideas. The market seems large and waiting for something new to unlock it. After all, almost everyone keeps bookmarks one way or the other, and most people use more than one computer, so they would need to sync them somehow. And, of course, we'll need a viral hook to help with the marketing.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I applied with a "mainstream bookmarking" idea for YC about a year ago or so. PG sent me a one liner, which I'll forward along to you:

"how is this different from reddit?"

</comment><comment><USER9> CoReap is one service that I've started using more frequently off-late. It combines social search and social bookmarking with a no-frills browser sidebar for bookmarks management and a browser extension for social search integration. See: <http://www.coreap.com>

</comment><comment><USER10> how far are you into the planning of this application? and where are you based?

i've been somewhat following this space. i agree there is lots of room for improvement, and i even think it's not saturated yet, that is if you have a flexible definition of a bookmarking application.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm close to releasing a private beta in a few weeks; but I'm flexible with the concept and will continue to tweak it until it fits. I'm based in Redwood City, CA. I'll drop you an email to discuss this further.</comment></comment>


Ableton Live Redesign - <AUTHOR> http://nenadmilosevic.co/ableton-live-redesign/ <comment><USER2> Unrelated to the quality of the redesign. I would advise other designers to not follow this method exactly.

Talking to users is great, it's what separates a designer from someone who just pushes pixels, but it's not a good idea to ask users what they like or what they want.

"Does ____ look like a helpful feature to you?" "Does ____ work for you?" "Is this better than before?"

What's the response going to be? "Sure, sounds good to me". Or "nah, I hate that kind of thing".

What you should do instead is observe user behavior. Watch how they interact with the tool/site/etc. and what they do. What are they trying to click on, what are they looking for, what is confusing. Ask them to talk out loud and share their thought process as they're going through the design.

Granted, the designer here may not have had time or access to do this, but then the questions should be more along the lines of what goals the users are trying to accomplish, and what helps or hinders them.

There's the old adage attributed to Henry Ford, "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." Through observation, or task/goal-oriented questions, discover what people need instead, and design for that. My explanation here is very simplistic, but I hope it gets the idea across.

Source: Am designer, and review portfolios and conduct interviews. We look at process as much as we look at quality of output.

<comment><USER3> OT. Can I contact you to review my portfolio?

<comment><USER2> Sure, my email is in my profile

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I like that he followed a process of gathering suggestions from real users and then testing his solutions with them. It's a big step above the typical "I redesigned X!" posts that look really pretty but probably aren't very usable.

I wonder what kind of job one would expect to get from this. These tasks (gathering user feedback, doing visual designs) are probably divided between several people at Ableton already. Does he want to replace the whole team? Is he asking to be their boss? Would he be OK with a junior position that lacked authority to make all the changes he's proposing here?

<comment><USER5> yeah... are their any success stories with regards to these kind of post? all the ways i play it out in my head don't seems great...

1\. someone at exec/board/mgmt-level somewhat detached from product development process sees it and comes in with the "see! _this_ is what it should look like, this looks way better, _this_ guy gets it and he doesn't even work here! you should hire him / do this." which doesn't tend to be received too well from the people doing the actual work, who for right or wrong have all sorts of reasons it doesn't look like that.

if they are forced to bring him in or do it they probably aren't going to like it / him.

2\. someone on the team sees it and goes "well, this dude doesn't understand the massive complexities and risks involved in something like this but hey that one piece is not that bad of an idea, let me re-work some stuff", but it doesn't seem like it would help them much to bring him on-board... "uninvited" has a negative connotation for a reason.

of course if could play out very differently, but responses along those lines (if any at all) seem most likely from my experience. it seems like a good approach to rally _community_ support for something, but the community is not the people building the product by definition.

<comment><USER6> Phillip Sackl landed a design-job at Mozilla by doing something similar. It wasn't as complex as a full redesign, though.

The application: [http://readyformozilla.com/](http://readyformozilla.com/)

The design-work: [http://readyformozilla.com/panorama/](http://readyformozilla.com/panorama/)

<comment><USER7> Panorama was one of the most promising features Firefox had, but they killed it. There was a guy who maintained a plugin version and even did some cool improvements to it [1], but he abandoned it because of Mozilla killing their older, but more featureful APIs - even those that are e10s compatible. I still use this thing sometimes and I'm quite sad to see it go.

[1]: [http://fasezero.com/addons/](http://fasezero.com/addons/)

<comment><USER8> Such a sad story, shared by many who supported Mozilla for so long. RIP Firefox Addons.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I don't really have a problem with the UI; I want Ableton to fix the other annoyances first:

* Saving the project resets the undo history. A someone who frequently saves, this is super frustrating.

* No normal zoom controls. You have to use the "minimap" at the top.

* Only a single project can be open at once, which makes copying from old projects tedious unless you shuffle files around into your current project.

* Tracks can only be grouped one level deep, i.e., no subgrouping. Most DAWs give you arbitrary grouping depths.

* No way to overlay multiple tracks in the piano roll. I end up starting in one group and extracting to individual buses afterward. This doesn't work well the other way around.

My biggest wish for the next version is project versioning. It's an absolute nightmare managing so many save "checkpoints", especially, as I mentioned, you can only have a single project open at once.

<comment><USER10> Have you tried Bitwig? I haven't but I believe it does address a few of these things

<comment><USER11> I've been using Bitwig and really like it. It still has a few bugs here and theee but I think the productivity gain over Ableton is good. I haven't come across anything Ableton does that Bitwig can't either.

<comment><USER12> I want to switch over to Bitwig completely, but I've also been learning Max/MSP. Bitwig would make me more productive IMO, but Max/MSP is a creative goldmine. I can't really take Max/MSP with me to Bitwig, I don't believe there are any efforts at integrating the two... and Ableton just bought Cycling '74 last week.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> An Ableton thread made it to the front page of HN?! YES. Awesome work. +100 on the expanded dedicated mixer view. I like Live because it's so music and the Push 2 is epic, not because I make electronic music.

I noticed metering was on the survey. I really wish that within a device rack (along the bottom) the metering between devices had settings that let you see Peak, RMS, and a numbered meter. You could do it all with lines... one meter for RMS, peaks that sit at the top, and tick marks for 0, -6, -12, -18. Most people don't fully appreciate gain staging and it's so important. I use a lot of vintage Waves plugins (CLA-76, LA-2A, API 550/2500) and I'm always having to insert Klanghelm meters, Utility effects, or observe the In/Out reading on those plugins to make sure I'm driving them right. The device area becomes messy just because a simple lack of metering and gain staging.

Sadly, I think most EDM music makers don't understand this. Maybe I'm stuck in the acoustic 70s using these vintage-style plugins. =)

My other beef is lack of Arrangement View features on Push 2, but alas, this isn't a hardware redesign. =) NICE WORK.

</comment><comment><USER14> Your design is very nice, and has much to recommend it. But in my opinion, it kills the advantage Live has over many of its competitors. It takes up too much space, and is too busy.

Live's UI is busy, but not as busy as many other DAWs. It is just enough to get the job done without using up screen real-estate needlessly. This is one of its many strengths.

Electronic music production needs efficient workflow. A utilitarian, but efficient UI wins over a better-looking but less efficient UI. This is why Live hides so much functionality in small buttons which toggle additional sections of the UI. Yes, it may not be obvious to someone coming into Live cold. But it makes working with the enormous complexity of a professional DAW a breeze once you learn where all the bits and pieces are, and lets you git the bits you don't presently care about out of the way so you can focus on the current task.

<comment><USER15> Nenad does account for this a bit in the _Display Zoom_ and _Detail Level_ sliders. Presumably moving the detail level up would present the single-click options which make Ableton a useful product, without necessarily exposing everyone to those at all times.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Best. Job application letter. EVER. When I'm hiring I'd love to see this kind of passion and attention to detail. I hope he gets a call from Abelton

<comment> ryan-allen Me too! If this UI landed in an Ableton update I would be so happy.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Truly enjoyed this re-imagining of Ableton's user interface, with sketches, detailed diagrams, and thoughts behind each design decision. It was educational to see the process of improving visual organization for such complex software with hundreds of controls.

To implement this design, I imagine it would take a lot more than switching color schemes. I don't know anything about the internals of Ableton, but it would have to be made very modular, with public low-level APIs..

<comment><USER13> Interesting side note, Ableton actually has a really interesting low-level API for music makers called Max for Live that lets anybody create interesting instruments or effects and share them with others. I'm not a pro at it, but it seems super powerful and complex (I try to keep it simple when it comes to music, heh): [https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/programming-in-max-for- live/](https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/programming-in-max-for-live/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Ableton, hire this guy!

I like how you treated track groups. That's definitely one of the biggest missing features for me.

I also really like the level-of-detail sliders, what a cool concept, would really add lots of flexibility to the UI.

</comment><comment><USER19> If I was a UX student looking for something to redesign Ableton Live is one of the last programs I'd ever look at - it's a classic of UI design. If you want to show off your UX chops, choose something that's broken e.g. 95% of the software in the world.

<comment><USER20> It's much harder to make changes to an already good design. I don't think he was throwing out the baby with the bath water, they were fairly subtle changes overall.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> I hope this guy gets the job he's after! But imo the biggest thing missing from the ableton ui these days is touch support, and this design doesn't address it.

<comment><USER22> > But imo the biggest thing missing from the ableton ui these days is touch > support

Or a full featured iPad app. TouchAble seems to be rather successful but it's a remote control surface rather than a stand-alone audio solution. Plus, there's only so much you can do as third party developer.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> First: what a phenomenal approach to a company. Shows a personal connection to the company and product that I'd bet is lacking in some current employees.

Second: I like the design but: is it just me or does this look a whole lot like Logic?

</comment><comment><USER24> I'm really not interested in a flat UI from Ableton, this looks cluttered to me. What I want is proper modulation system, rather than the hacks you currently have to go through with Max for Live to achieve a result.

<comment><USER25> I only dabbled in Ableton Live a little bit many years ago, so I'm not familiar with some of the terms you mentioned.

Can you describe what a modulation system is - what's your understanding?

Also any examples out there that illustrate this, other apps that do it well?

It's not like a node based shader system like in Houdini or like Fusion's compositing system?

<comment><USER26> Not the person you asked, but I believe he is referring to the lack of arbitrary modulation mapping in Ableton, where modulation is typically one parameter on a synthesizer, effect or other device being changed over time by an external source such as a Low Frequency Oscillator (LFO).

Many Ableton devices have features such as this on specific parameters like filter frequency but, without Max for Live, you can't map custom modulations from arbitrary sources.

Here is an example on one such Max for Live device, pitched as a 'general purpose' LFO: [https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/lfo-20-free-max-live- device-...](https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/lfo-20-free-max-live-device- robert-henke/)

<comment><USER25> Thanks for explaining - that makes sense.

Also did some research online before I saw your answer and found an answer after watching a video about Bitwig Studio's unified modulations system [0].

[0] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_mQUV2iwiI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_mQUV2iwiI)

<comment><USER24> Yes, exactly. If you're creating electronic music then the key aspect is how you modify the sound over time, so a flexible modulation system is crucial.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> So in the end this story came to an unfortunate ending. The guy didn't even get a proper interview from Ableton. Quoting him from his website:

"EDIT: Unfortunately, at the end, I didn't get the job nor an interview where I could have commented on or explained my design decisions. However, after I got the email saying that they don't want to hire me, I did get a chance to talk with their head of design, Ed Macovaz. Ed and I discussed my unsolicited redesign and he gave me his and team's feedback as well as some useful insights on how to improve as a designer."

To me, it's quite a strange turn of events. I would at least call a guy to have a proper interview.

</comment><comment><USER28> This is one hell of a cover letter.

</comment><comment><USER29> Please consider people who don't have perfect vision.

Grey text on a grey background is just not high contrast enough to be accessible.

</comment><comment><USER30> Big Ableton Fan here and using it for more than 5 years, even though recently I purchased Logic Pro X too. I like that he added a scale feature to Ableton in his draft (one thing I love about Logic). To me this theme is not so easy on the eye and lacking contrast.

I am currently using this theme by PureAV (UI designer of Serum Plugin) [http://pureav.deviantart.com/art/Ableton- Live-9-Skin-5893383...](http://pureav.deviantart.com/art/Ableton- Live-9-Skin-589338351) but it also is not too easy on the eyes and sometimes I switch back to the default one.

Concerning UI language I also like this Ableton Redesign Concept: [https://dribbble.com/shots/2255100-Ableton-Live-Redesign- Con...](https://dribbble.com/shots/2255100-Ableton-Live-Redesign-Concept)

</comment><comment><USER31> Nenad great design man. You really nailed the colors and I dig the flat UI, similar to what you'd see in a RAW editor like RAW Therapee or Lightroom. It's consistent, professional and carries a certain logic through all of the elements. Hope you get the gig!

</comment><comment><USER32> The worst UI flaw of Ableton is its atrocious piano roll. They need to make it more like FL Studio's piano roll - left click to enter a note and hold it down to adjust length, right click to delete (yes there's draw mode, but it doesn't let you do that)

<comment> ryan-allen I find myself swapping from draw to regular mode with B a lot, and using the arrow keys to adjust things. It's a bit annoying... I thing piano rolls are pretty antiquated in general, most people aren't writing chromatic pieces, so I'd like to see something that was more of a guiding force in programming within certain bounds of western music theory.

I'm a programmer so I guess I could make it happen!

<comment><USER33> You could use a wavetable LFO with Autotune to quantize the pitch (if necessary or desired) to whatever mode you like.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> But what will the arrangement window look like. That is where I get most of my issues from when using Ableton (and I use it a lot). Really Glad to see that newer plug-in setup though - very similar to one of the things I love in ProTools.

</comment><comment><USER35> Really awesome project and research. I haven't used any music software for ages, but I think it'd be awesome if the author talked with some open source similar projects and actually got an interface implemented in some system.

</comment><comment><USER36> Just a minor side note and I don't know if it's just something you did during the data display or if it is actually reflective of how you surveyed, but if you're surveying for comparitive purposes you probably should keep the descriptors and options as similar as possible (ideally identical). Having multiple different 'yes' and 'no' variations can introduce subtle distortions to the data.

If your goal is to actually deal with users and their feedback, this is probably more important than it is for anyone who just wants to show their design clout.

</comment><comment><USER37> I am surprised with what the author could infer from questionnaires.

I feel questionnaires are stupid. I do have ideas on how stuff I use often could be made better and I share it with the creators if there is a way to reach out to them.

I don't mind sharing a video of my typical usage and maybe some annotations with it but that's it. I don't think I can answer questions like "Do you like this" or "Do you think this screen is useful" objectively or accurately in any manner that could be useful to the designer or implementor.

</comment><comment><USER38> Great work! Tough to tell if I would _really_ like it without spending some time in use, but the one thing that really jumped out at me was the various Clip types and states. Very nice.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Hey guys, thanks for all the comments! If my site is down please head out to medium [https://medium.com/@nndmlsvc/ableton-live- redesign-26efebe73...](https://medium.com/@nndmlsvc/ableton-live- redesign-26efebe73bfc) or behance [https://www.behance.net/gallery/53789531/Ableton-Live- Redesi...](https://www.behance.net/gallery/53789531/Ableton-Live-Redesign)

Cheers! Nenad.

<comment><USER39> Since you have a pretty "flat" design, could you imagine there being preferences settings for adjusting the contrast?

I love the yellow indicators. However, I find gray text on gray background to not be very readable. Yes, I'm getting old.

<comment><AUTHOR> There's actually a brightness, saturation, and hue options in Preferences > Look & Feel > Color. Try playing with them and you'll be able to adjust the contrast a bit. Cheers. N.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> I'm curious where the list of users to survey came from. For the company, this should be easy, but for a guy making a cover letter, probably much more difficult.

<comment><USER41> From the article (not reposting the links):

 _I have used different online communities to get to the Ableton Live users (thanks again guys, this was super helpful). If you're interested in these conversations, feel free to check out the links or screenshots below.

Ableton Forum Part 1 (link) and Part 2 (link) Gearslutz (link) Ableton Live Facebook Group (link) Ableton Addicts Facebook Group Ableton Subreddit Part 1 (link) and Part 2 (link)_

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> Sadly the website is down and Wayback Machine did not save the picture. I am really unhappy because I was really looking forward to be amazed.

Edit: Found a sneak peek on Nenad's Dribbble: [https://dribbble.com/shots/3564223-Ableton-Live- Redesign](https://dribbble.com/shots/3564223-Ableton-Live-Redesign)

<comment><USER43> [http://i.imgur.com/dfCte32.png](http://i.imgur.com/dfCte32.png)

There are tons of more detailed images on that page, but it would be too much work to save them all.

<comment><USER42> Yeah its up for me now. Looks great.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Just a point of quibble: are 16:10 laptops or displays that prevalent now? The usefulness of this would go way down at 16:9.

</comment><comment><USER44> <3 Abelton, even for it's flaws. Absolutely an essential part of making live music these days.

</comment><comment><USER45> A+ for effort, but this re-design looks way cluttered and busy compared to the current Ableton UI.

</comment><comment><USER46> Really don't like the loss of the majority of the clip color into tiny little bars on the side of the clip. It may look prettier, but it is far less functional -especially for those who use Live "live" in addition to studio production.

</comment><comment><USER47> Nice job! I like how easy it is to see the metering between devices on your effects chain

</comment><comment><USER48> I miss my ableton and fruityloops experimenting days I'm sure people who get to play with this stuff everyday love their job.

</comment><comment><USER49> Very cool stuff.. Support for Nenad.

</comment><comment><USER49> Very cool stuff. Support for Nenad.

</comment><comment><USER50> This UI looks like the control panel of a commercial aircraft.

Not sure if that's a good sign or not.

</comment><comment><USER51> Nice work, hope you get the job!

</comment><comment><USER44> Request: please do a mainstage redesign!

</comment><comment><USER52> Burning Man OS</comment>


Getting Buzz: From 0 to (maybe) Forbes in under a week - <AUTHOR> http://kyro.posterous.com/from-0-to-maybe-forbes-in-under-a-week

<comment><USER2> Personally, I liked your article. It was informative and showed some of the interesting ways in which you use the medium to generate interest. Some of the methods are questionable, but you achieved your goal, and were kind enough to share it with us. A follow up post about the money generated from sales would be interesting.

</comment><comment><USER3> Where you crossed the line: "Most of them were along the lines of 'Breaking: cure to swine flu found [link to shirt]".

This is spam, black hat, whatever you want to call it.

You got 90% of the buzz machine figured out. Now you need to learn how to play it ethically.

Compare with my version of "0 to AP under a week": [http://blog.fairsoftware.net/2009/02/27/make-your-way-to- the...](http://blog.fairsoftware.net/2009/02/27/make-your-way-to-the-top-dont- take-the-stairs-use-the-elevator/)

Good Hackers have ethics.

<comment><USER4> Spam? Black hat? Do you even use Twitter? I'd advise you to go conduct a Twitter search for any given trend, and return with an assessment of the value those results carried. I'm wiling to bet that you'll find a good 99.9% of what you find to be 'spam.'

What I did was no different than what you see on television when you hear 'the cure to weight loss is here!' It's tapping into the human psyche and appealing to a very irrational part of the human mind. Just like how Apple markets their products as 'these will make you look hip instantly!' Sure, you could argue that because it was swine flu, I was dealing with a more sensitive and morally weighty issue, but I'm sure more people die every year of obesity, etc. And to be fair, the name of my account, flushirts, and the shirt linked, shirts that said 'oinkment' or 'theraswineflu,' did provide some context to those tweets.

You are more than justified in arguing that other things I did can be perceived as unethical. My use of Twitter, however, was not. I used it to directly communicate with those who were discussing a topic I happened to be catering to. And the 'Breaking:..' tweets were just a way to grab attention amidst a society in an irrational and unnecessary panic. That's how some marketing works. That's how Apple conducts its marketing, believe it or not, as subtle as it may be.

<comment><USER3> The use of twitter to interact directly with users that are interested in your space, I approve and recommend completely. It's one of the highlights of your post.

I'm objecting very specifically to announcing a cure for swine flu. I couldn't care less if 99% of the world uses those sames tactics. In my book, they are wrong.

And yes, I have been exposed to Apple marketing for quite a while now (~1985) :-)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> So to get buzz I have to post hidden links, tweet sensational headlines, and lie to popular blogs?

Count me out.

<comment><USER4> Like I mentioned, this was really nothing more than an experiment. I certainly would not have done that if I was trying to generate buzz for a legitimate company. These were the efforts of a broke college student who thought it interesting to see if he could ride the swine flu hysteria. And to a certain extent, I was able to ride it. It was a great learning experience.

<comment><USER6> Please, just say the dollar figure already.

If it's in the hundreds, you don't have to be too embarrassed.

<comment><USER4> I'm afraid you'll have to wait for the Forbes article.

<comment><USER7> ...Which may involve "embellished" numbers right?

<comment><USER8> That's a bit cynical. The _only_ reason he'd do such a thing would be to increase buzz.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I'm pretty sure having links with the same color as the background can get your site penalized. Just put your link in your signature. Or edit the post a day later.

<comment><USER10> surely all forum links are no-follow?

<comment><USER11> There's a surprising number that aren't no-follow.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I think this is the power of twitter - to be able to _hear_ word of mouth, and influence it. Like any communication, it doesn't need to be done in a misleading way.

This might be partly why twitter gets so much mainstream press/TV: it is a good thing for their advertisers.

</comment><comment><USER12> The fellas from Heyzap seem to have timed their SwineFighter similarly and were mentioned in that same Techcrunch post. I wonder how much their marketing experience parallels that of kyro.

</comment><comment><USER13> The tactics employed in that post are pretty much the reason I hate "search engine optimizers", "search engine marketers", et al. They're also the reason I end up on Hacker News instead of Digg and Reddit; people who expend so much energy trying to game the system end up ruining it.

While the author may have made a quick buck, they did so at the cost of their customer's trust and their own credibility. Once lost, they're impossible to regain. I think the author should follow Seth Godin or Gary Vaynerchuck for a while and learn the value of honest, permissions based marketing.

</comment><comment><USER14> Interesting article. Even more interesting are the reponses with regard to your 'black hat' tactics of generating the buzz. There's no such thing as 'bad publicity', right?

I myself have been wondering how to generate some buzz around my own fun side- project: <http://www.tjetter.com> \- a site that allows you to chat with random strangers, as well as _read_ (and replay) all conversations that take place at that very moment... Not sure whether applying your tactics should be the way to proceed. Suggestions?

<comment><USER15> <http://www.tjetter.com/#3jsK>

<comment><USER14> Are you the one complaining about the 'godawful red'? :)

Anyway, suggestions on how to generate some buzz around this concept?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> It's extremely sad to see how much investigation effort is done nowadays behind stories. More stories is not always better.

</comment><comment><USER17> Blog comments almost certainly don't help with SEO, since every major platform uses the rel=nofollow on them. Forums may not have that, but most of them are poorly indexed by search engines (if at all) so those likely weren't much help either.

</comment><comment><USER18> I'm not sure entirely fabricating a 'leak' is what Arrington meant when he said 'create a story'. Such advice from journalists (and I've been one) usually means 'give me some angle, give me some reason to write about you' not 'make stuff up'. :|

<comment><USER4> Sure, and I'm not saying he was advocating that. I'm just trying to show that I took his advice, fabricated or not, in giving them an interesting story - something beyond your usual 'hey, we made this cool site, please write about us.'

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Why aren't there any women's t-shirts on the site?

</comment><comment><USER6> I thought this was going to be a really interesting article leading to some amount of dollars. Unfortunately, it climaxed with a call from a (nameless) Forbes reporter.

I suggest you delete this post, and stop telling people about the secrets of SEO you learned from a t-shirt site.

Better yet, write a follow-up post saying how successful you were.

<comment><USER4> Well, firstly, I didn't submit this. Secondly, I thought this might serve to benefit some people who have trouble with marketing by explaining my own story and how I utilized every day resources. And thirdly, I could have very well posted the name of the reporter, but wasn't sure if that was proper etiquette.

<comment><USER6> You clearly knew what your readers were interested in knowing... so why choose not to say the amount, and instead say you got a call from someone in Forbes? Can you please tell me why the last sentence in your article says you made a nice sum of cash, instead of listing a dollar figure?

Call me a cynic, but I'd guess that the dollar amount you made would have seriously detracted from the veracity of your article. Maybe after Forbes covers your shirts, the figure will be worth sharing...

In the mean time, let me offer some words of advice to the entrepreneurs who might be misled by this article. The way to a successful product isn't a sham- wow with a trendy swine flu t-shirt site - the way to success is to focus on serving your users, and making your product better.

Tell me... did Posterous get to the level of success it has today with the tactics of making swine flu shirts? Maybe you have a more interesting story to share.

<comment><USER20> I don't think anyone would argue with the fact that success ultimately depends on having a great product and providing great customer service.

I think this highlights an important point: the best product in the world will fail without customers and awareness. This point is clearly fundamental but one easily missed by hackers living inside their products.

I've intentionally put zero marketing and promotion into my startup as I'm completing a full-time undergraduate degree and can't provide high quality customer service to a large customer base. The product is great in so far as those that use it (about a dozen) love it. But since no-one knows of it, the customer base barely stays in double figures.

The end result is interesting and the process is worth noting. The tactics used to generate the buzz may be questionable in places. Change the implementation as per any ethical concerns and you have an interesting buzz- generating framework starting point.</comment></comment></comment></comment>