Show HN: live video rap battles, running on node.js/opentok - <AUTHOR> http://rapt.fm

<comment><AUTHOR> Here's a doc describing the basic architecture: [https://docs.google.com/a/rapt.fm/document/d/1EpiKZG7MTNgc4_...](https://docs.google.com/a/rapt.fm/document/d/1EpiKZG7MTNgc4_ZLagiPaObfVqN9F6XHMpq7m9dzLhU/edit)

Battlestar Raptica is more distributed than described in this doc, though (some prominent local rappers visited us tonight).

<comment><USER2> Really informative write-up, thanks for posting that!

One thing I didn't see is how video is encoded and routed, although perhaps this is all decided by your using opentok. I assume video goes from rapper to your opentok server and then out to each client. Does opentok handle multi- bitrate encoding and that sort of thing to support a wide range of clients? Would love to hear more about how much work it was getting the video to be "good enough" versus how much went into the rest of the functionality (matching, voting, UI, JavaScript)

Can you give any broad idea of what you're spending on infra and how many battles/viewers you can host at that cost?

<comment><AUTHOR> Opentok is really the best way to do this right now, if you're small and trying to build something creative with real-time video. I am guilty of treating their system as a black boxen though. I know it from the API which gives you a lot of flexibility about how video streams are shared, who gets to publish, and who can record.

We've been putting in various optimizations to reduce our costs (now that we got it basically running well enough to elicit a suspension of user disbelief). Without revealing too much, it is running in the low dollars per hour range to support users in the hundreds per hour range.

Also, I built a way to manage amazon EC2s using perl and rex. Definitely check this out, it is really easy to deal with. [http://rexify.org/api/index.html](http://rexify.org/api/index.html)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER2> Cool site. I'm not your target market, but I'm curious if you could reuse heavily to do the same thing for online debates, perhaps even training and support.

Does opentok give you the option of archiving the video and playing back "epic battles"?

Looks like this uses flash. Unfortunately iOS Safari doesn't support WebRTC and Apple isn't saying anything about their plans, if any, to add it.

OpenTok does have an iOS SDK so you could make a native app to connect to the video streams. Would that interoperate with the flash clients you are currently using, or would you have to switch to WebRTC in the browser at that point?

<comment><AUTHOR> Going native is a great idea that we've been considering, it would make support easier for sure!

RE: ios... getting this to work for the web was an epic struggle, but we're out of the thick of it and it would be cool to have a simplified version for when you want to rap at a random spot.

Opentok's webrtc is not working well enough for us to use in primetime yet. We have been testing it out a lot though, and it is amazingly good stuff when you have your ducks lined up -- looks a lot better, connects a lot faster.

<comment><USER2> "Epic struggle" is sort of what I expected you would say. The world would benefit from a detailed writeup of how you got video working to your satisfaction, please tell us about the missing functionality you wish was there, what were some of the trade-offs you had to make, and maybe even some open source? :-)</comment></comment></comment>


Alabama Lawmakers May Reach into Pockets of Pornographers - <AUTHOR> http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/09/11/alabama-lawmakers-may-reach-into-pockets-of-pornographers <comment><USER3> _[A store owner says] "I would say it like this, man: If you talk to anyone who owns an adult novelty shop, they will tell you they've been taxed out the ass double or triple before any other business[...]"_

It's like a new genre coming into exitence before our very eyes...seriously though, the reporter is right in observing that this could have complex and far-reaching consequences, eg leading to the classification of goods by the identity of the seller rather than any inherent _qualia_ of the goods themselves, a principle which could be generalized into other fields - <USER2> the unforseen consequence of operator overloading in OOP, for example.

It's not an obvious HN story, but I think it is of interest due to these potential second-order effects.</comment>


XBMC and TuneIn on the Ouya - <AUTHOR> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ouya/ouya-a-new-kind-of-video-game-console/posts/283033

<comment><USER2> Most android developers try to ensure that their apps work with popular devices whether or not there is an official partnership. I can appreciate the PR value of all these 'an existing android app will work with Ouya' announcements, but I thought that ecosystem compatibility was part of the original value proposition.

<comment><USER3> Ouya adds a couple of other requirements to the "will work with Ouya":

1) Controller Support 2) Must have at least a free demo, if not another free component.

Also it looks like they won't be having the Play Store, meaning that for many (most?) Android title won't work with Ouya.

<comment><USER4> The Android UI toolkit actually already handles controllers relatively well thanks to the use of trackballs and D-pads on first and second generation Android hardware as well as Google TV; non-game apps such as TuneIn and XBMC[0] shouldn't have many issues adapting, if any. (2) is a business model issue, not a technical one.

[0] XBMC is mostly custom, but happens it hails from a controller-based platform to begin with.

<comment><USER5> Well, pedantically speaking, providing a free app is also a technical issue and not only a business one. Many of the paid apps have no in-app payment set up at all. For the OUYA, you'd need to implement that. Which is easy, but there's still some engineering and design time to invest to adapt (some) apps to the OUYA.

Tho, as an IAP advocate myself, I'd argue that every game dev in their right mind should have that already by now. And I applaud OUYA for "forcing" developers to do the smart thing. But unfortunately, some will still need to adapt.

But you're right, I'm just pointing a detail.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> They got it running on Apple TV, I'd hope it would end up on Ouya...

<comment><USER7> Yeah, but the navigation and UI paradigm they've inherited from being an X-Box project originally kinda sux...

It's really hard to use on apple tv with the remote. So very unintuitive. And they are also heavily invested in their theme engine - we'll have an "android- looking theme" at best, not native UI...

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Great news. I really hope the ethernet port is gigabit..

<comment><USER9> Why? 100mbit will do HD content even from a Bluray M2TS file.

<comment><USER8> I'm skeptical that the Ouya will be able to decode h.264 Level 4.1 (up to 50 Mbps). Xbox 360 can only handle up to 10Mbps peak of Level 4.1. Thus, the only solution is to transcode to MPEG-2 using something like PS3 Media Server. A 100mbit connection is insufficient for high-quality transcoded MPEG-2 in my experience

<comment><USER10> Probably the OUYA is a bit too light duty for what you'd like to do. It's primarily an indie games console.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Download and Mail Service for Canadians - <AUTHOR> http://canadiandownload.com

<comment><USER2> 1\. Rent server in a U.S. datacenter

2\. Download and zip up multiple things via ssh and wget

3\. Use service to mail large amount of data.

The plausibility of this depends on how much down/up bandwidth costs in a datacenter.</comment>


The Python Way (1991) - <AUTHOR> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/1999-June/001951.html <comment><USER2> Hopefully the guy has given up on the constant <wink>ing, heh.</comment>


Show HN: Low cost CO₂ monitoring (your office) with Prometheus and Go - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/larsp/co2monitor <comment><USER2> This is another way to do IoT wrong - collecting data but just displaying it.

The idea is to use CO₂ levels to control your HVAC system. The HVAC system should be able to draw fresh air from outside or recirculate air from inside, depending on CO₂ level. This is a standard option on modern HVAC systems, and there are standard sensors for it. Better systems sense temperature, CO₂, CO, humidity, and smoke. This is a huge win for rooms where the people load varies widely, such as hotel function rooms and classrooms. Such control systems save money, because, when nobody is using the room, they detect that CO₂ is low and cut down the ventilation rate. When the room fills up, the CO₂ level goes up, the fans speed up and the outside air intakes open until the CO₂ level comes down.[2] There are smart control units which manage heat, fans, vents, and air conditioning compressors. The hardware pays for itself in power consumption.

And yes, you can get this stuff Internet-enabled, although that's mostly for remote maintenance. The HVAC works just fine without connectivity.

Surprisingly, this technology is a tough sell. Except for convention hotels. They get this. They're in the competitive business of keeping large numbers of people comfortable and coming back. They have big rooms where the people load may go from zero to a thousand in minutes, and go back down an hour later. It's a huge win for them.

[1] [http://www.airtesttechnologies.com/support/reference/CO2SeqO...](http://www.airtesttechnologies.com/support/reference/CO2SeqOfOperation.pdf) [2] [https://buildingcontrols.honeywell.com/literature/Advanced_R...](https://buildingcontrols.honeywell.com/literature/Advanced_RTU_Retrofit_Solution_Program_Sell_Sheet-01-00041.pdf)

<comment><USER3> > _Surprisingly, this technology is a tough sell._

Well, in the Office for regulating CO2-vs-O2 it's competing with the timeless, very-low-maintenance and low-cost combo of keeping-plants-and-occasionally- opening-a-window.

<comment><USER2> If the windows and the HVAC aren't talking, you end up trying to heat or air condition the outside world. This is both futile and expensive.

Also, it takes about eight trees to absorb the CO2 emitted by one human. The contribution of houseplants is tiny. Especially since they usually don't get full sunlight.

<comment><USER4> >>> If the windows and the HVAC aren't talking, you end up trying to heat or air condition the outside world. This is both futile and expensive.

That's an argument to be made to the hotel or office owner. The user has no control on the HVAC and is forced to open the window or turn on electric heaters to cancel it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> If you're interested in a hardware solution, I've used the MH-Z19 CO2 sensor to great results. It's an NDIR (read:not electrochemical) sensor with a UART interface and temperature compensation. It will report up to 5000ppm and comes factory calibrated.

It's also $20 in singles from China. Coupled with whatever microcontroller you want, it's totally possible to have a distributed net of CO2 sensors for a low cost per node.

That being said, it's a ton of work and this is an excellent solution with much quicker results.

<comment><USER6> Just wanted to add that Tasmota[0] (one of the open source firmwares for ESP8266 controllers) seems to already support MH-Z19 sensors.

This cuts down on the work if all you want is to measure your CO2 level: you can get a $3 Wemos and a sensor, (solder pins, figure out the sensor connector), flash Tasmota, and you'll have it already reporting on MQTT over wifi. I would argue it's even easier than installing and maintaining Linux on a RPi.

[0] [https://github.com/arendst/Sonoff- Tasmota](https://github.com/arendst/Sonoff-Tasmota)

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> I was looking in to a indoor quality monitor, and seems like for $80, you could just buy this which connects to homekit [https://www.amazon.com/Elgato- Eve-Room-technology-Bluetooth/...](https://www.amazon.com/Elgato-Eve-Room- technology-Bluetooth/dp/B01M2YTIBC/)

<comment><USER8> Came here to say something similar. I expected an actual circuit build (of which there are many), but this is just plugging in a USB data logging CO2 monitor (which is $116 on Amazon right now, but apparently the normal price is ~$70 USD) and using it with Prometheus. I've done something similar wrapping [https://github.com/merbanan/rtl_433](https://github.com/merbanan/rtl_433) to pick up temp / humidity monitoring data from sensors around my home, then stuffing the results into InfluxDB and using Kapacitor for alerting (sends me an email when my freezer gets too hot) + Chronograf for graphing. It took an evening of reading docs and messing around to get it all working, and I'd recommend Ding I Y if it sounds cool -- you'll very likely learn something. Note that you could do the same with an ELK stack or Sensu or Nagios or whatever you want to play with.

<comment><USER6> What kind of 433MHz temperature+humidity sensors are you using? What kind of battery life do you get from them in the freezer?

<comment><USER8> They're all Acurite sensors with lithium batteries (Energizer ultimate lithium, available at Target on sale sometimes and other places). The one in the freezer is a "00592TXR" and lasts ~9 months in there IIRC (lithium cells do much better with cold temps than alkaline). I also have a few model 06044 which are small temp + humidity sensors with a display. These also have good battery life. Lastly, Acurite makes a smart hub to log to their cloud, model 09150M. I haven't set it up yet, but it basically does the same stuff: [https://www.myacurite.com/#/login](https://www.myacurite.com/#/login)

Here's the kind of stuff it can do: [https://www.acurite.com/access-my- acurite-remote-monitoring....](https://www.acurite.com/access-my-acurite- remote-monitoring.html)

I've also had an Acurite display with some segments of digits that looked funky depnending on viewing angle. It was usable but kind of bugged me. I contacted them and they RMAd it quickly and easily for me (they just sent a new unit). For this reason, their easy availability on Amazon, the reliability and battery life I've had with half a dozen of their sensors deployed in and outdoors, I'll keep buying them when I need this type of thing in the future. They don't ever lock up or need fiddling with, so they're kind of boring in that they just keep working until the batteries go flat. The widespread open source support is also certainly nice :)

<comment><USER6> Thanks, that's encouraging! I was worried they might not last that long, especially at low temperatures.

I am using a Sonoff RF Bridge[0] to talk to 433MHz sensors. It is also supported by Tasmota[1].

[0] [https://www.itead.cc/sonoff-rf- bridge-433.html](https://www.itead.cc/sonoff-rf-bridge-433.html) [1] [https://github.com/arendst/Sonoff-Tasmota/wiki/Sonoff-RF- Bri...](https://github.com/arendst/Sonoff-Tasmota/wiki/Sonoff-RF-Bridge-433)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I'm sure it's just a coincidence, but Amazon just bumped the price of that sensor up by almost $40. Perhaps that is a proxy for how popular this article is and how quickly Amazon notices the trend.

</comment><comment><USER10> Honest question - Why would one want to monitor CO₂ in their office?

<comment><USER11> Elevated CO2 levels have a noticeable impact on human cognitive ability. Indoor environments obviously have higher CO2 levels vs outdoor, but certain offices may have worse than typical indoor levels due to poor ventilation.

[https://thinkprogress.org/exclusive-elevated-co2-levels- dire...](https://thinkprogress.org/exclusive-elevated-co2-levels-directly- affect-human-cognition-new-harvard-study-shows-2748e7378941/)

<comment><USER10> Interesting, I had no idea. Do you think it's worth getting a CO2 monitor for a home office? I don't usually have the windows open since it's cold out. Is one person enough to elevate a small 10x10 office to cognitive impairing levels?

<comment><USER12> It's a small investment and probably worth it if you already suspect bad ventilation. Within seconds of plugging a CO2 monitor into my bedroom outlet, the monitor was registering 1200ppm — and that was without any humans in it prior.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Do the huge corresponding drops in CO2 and temperature at 11pm and 9am mean that the "solution" was to open a window or door for ~15 minutes a couple times a day?

Seems like a simple solution, other than there's a good half-hour of sub-17 degree temperatures right at the start of the workday, which isn't exactly a great motivator to start working. Unless you are skilled at typing with winter gloves on, I guess.

</comment><comment><USER14> Well $80 dollar is affordable but certainly isn't low cost to me. Why are all Co2 Monitor cost so much?

And on the subject, do we have O2 level monitor as well?

</comment><comment><USER15> What do you guys think about ozone? I know its banned in California from what I've heard. But I hear it kills a lot of bad compounds like mold. I could be wrong though, would love to hear you guys opinion on it.

</comment><comment><USER16> In almost every office I was there was a poor ventilation. I have extremely high co2 ppm in my university labs. I try to always open windows where it possible.

</comment><comment><USER17> > we were now able to optimize HVAC settings in our office (Well, we mainly > complained to our facility management).

Time to go shop some plants?

<comment><USER18> A random google link says that you would need hundreds of plants per person to get sufficient oxygen production [1].

And during night, the plants would just produce CO2, which would presumably get accumulated, making the whole situation worse.

[1] - [https://io9.gizmodo.com/5955071/how-many-plants-would-you- ne...](https://io9.gizmodo.com/5955071/how-many-plants-would-you-need-to- generate-oxygen-for-yourself-in-an-airlock)

<comment><USER19> Another random google link says it could be as little as four shoulder-height areca palms: [http://www.secrets-of-longevity-in-humans.com/oxygen- produci...](http://www.secrets-of-longevity-in-humans.com/oxygen-producing- plants.html)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> i am looking for something similar but for particulate matter instead of co2 like PM2.5. I am also looking for a solution that would work mobile, eg. on a bike. Any help greatly appreciated!

<comment><USER21> There is a project in Germany which monitors particulate matter. They provide a guide how to build a sensor using a SDS011 and a ESP8266: [http://luftdaten.info/en/construction- manual/](http://luftdaten.info/en/construction-manual/)

Not sure if/how this would work mobile, though.</comment></comment>


Developers who can build things from scratch - <AUTHOR> http://www.aaronstannard.com/engineers-from-scratch/ <comment><USER2> I think most commenters misread 'from scratch'. The author is talking about ideas not about code.

So even developers who can build things from scratch use frameworks when needed.

<comment><USER3> Author here - yep, that's exactly right. Didn't occur to me people would read it that way (whoops!) - I meant implementing ideas from scratch.

This was inspired by a lecture I gave to some entrepreneurs on Friday (I put a link to the slides in the post) - these folks are people with business / design backgrounds who are trying to figure out how to realize some idea they've been working on. It was part of a larger course they were in - my role was just to give them the CTO / technical co-founder's perspective on what to look for in building their early tech team, picking a technology stack, etc...

I ended up really having an intense discussion with them on "finding the developer to implement an idea from nothing" and tried to capture that in the blog post.

<comment><USER4> I think most people first think about developers who can not build from scratch. Those who require frameworks, and can only fill the gaps.

So one trait a from scratch developer must show, is being a toolsmith. Most startups do not have the time to build everything from scratch. Instead they have to pick tools to solve their problem. A toolsmith can quickly validate if a tool is suited for the task, and is able to create new tools if necessary.

So there are few things one can check before hiring a developer: A toolsmith published his tools, frameworks or libraries. A bughunter contributed to 3rd party projects. ...

Or in short: A developer who did things from scratch, will be proud showing them. An this will show where his strong and weak points are. ( e.g. my weak point is design )

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Giant hunters. Not giant slayers, but the guys who have been around long enough that they have a pretty good idea of which shoulders to stand on if they want to reach something.

</comment><comment><USER6> I must have been stuck in the HN bubble too long because I'm really surprised that there's non-technical entrepreneurs trying to start technical startups. How does that even work?

<comment><USER7> Almost every company will eventually need great salespeople.

A great salesperson with a great idea, can recruit developers to implement the idea. It's rare, but I've seen it happen.

<comment><USER8> But how does the salesperson tell the good developers from the bad?

That's hard enough even for us _in_ the game.

<comment><USER9> I've seen a bunch of products that were initially built by developers who were totally inexperienced at the time and not particularly good even after all of that - the codebase was a total mess, but if that initial version had the core features and somehow works by magic of ducttape, babysitting the production code and manually fixing data when it gets broken, then it can get rewritten more or less properly after the concept is proven and the business can hire better (and more) technical people.

<comment><USER8> But who hires the better people?

Presumably the previous not-so-great programmers, who are now VP of Engineering. Or do you fire those guys?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Actually, in my experience most developers would prefer to build something from scratch, instead of taking over some codebase.

<comment><USER11> Yes and it's easier too. Well, until your project reaches a certain size, than it's actually very much like working on someone else's code...

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> The article seems to be about building routine web and phone apps. There's no reason to build those "from scratch", and many reasons not to. The tools, libraries, and frameworks in that area are plentiful. Why re-invent the wheel?

A decade ago I wrote most of the software for a DARPA Grand Challenge autonomous vehicle. Now that was "from scratch". Almost every file was 100% new code. There were no libraries for that stuff back then. Unless you're doing something exotic like that, or have severe performance requirements, or are producing something for very high volume production, working "from scratch" seems pointless.

<comment><USER13> > Unless you're doing something exotic like that, or have severe performance > requirements, or are producing something for very high volume production, > working "from scratch" seems pointless.

Maybe. Platform limitations are a thing. And you started out your comment with the observation that not everything is a web-app.

Way (way!) back in the day, I had to implement SGI's new OpenGL spec on SunOS. Because it didn't exist, and we needed it for some internal semiconductor CAD programs. Which is to say: the CAD program developers had SGIs and the rest of semiconductor design had sun boxes.

You might be doing embedded, or robotics, or process control or field- monitoring or flight systems, or ... In many (most?) of those, you make a new directory, fire up vi on a main.c file and go from there. If you are lucky (and luck seems to improve w/ time, I will admit), you have enough headroom (space, performance) to do a lot of it in Python. Often not, though...

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> i'm not sure these guys are so rare... sounds pretty normal to me. :/

<comment><USER15> Maybe you are one of them! :-)

It's truly rare to find techies who are _more_ excited to see the end result in the hands of productive and happy end users than they are about the technology used to build said solutions.

The trait is more a mindset, a philosophy of empathy than it is a technical skill of building software.

<comment><USER16> I'd like to ask you something.

When working on a project (that may sound boring like a stock-management system), and during the endless development of this (keep adding functionality the employer asks for) starting to want to use this system yourself for daily stuff (hey I have a lot of electronics that could and would profit from a stock-system to find all my shit).

Oh and on top of that constantly keep having thoughts about how I could improve the flow and stuff.

Does that fit into that description of "techies who are more excited to see the end result in the hands of productive and happy end users than they are about the technology used to build said solutions"?

<comment><USER17> At one time I worked for a marketing guy who was not a coder nor an engineer really. What he was really good at was closing the loop by talking to people and asking questions. Because any project you have a bunch of different groups and white marketing is about getting them to reason collectedly to solve problems.

So the 'from scratch guy' is a technical person that cares about closing the loop instead of working on technical puzzles inside his comfort zone.

Me I have two things. I hate working on anything and then have it not ship (What I could have spent the last three months in Costa Rica working on my tan? Seriously?) And I like when I see people using the stuff I worked on. Nothing better than to see that customers are ordering your product and the company is shipping it and making money without having you to be involved.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> It's not that it is hard to build stuff from scratch, it's just that it is easier to use a tool to do it.

I worked on a project where we had to remove jQuery from the page, and it was a nightmare for all the developers that had never written vanilla JavaScript.

These days, I don't use jQuery or bootstrap, or lazy loading libraries because I can just add the functionality I need by myself.

<comment><USER19> Be cautious removing and/or avoiding jQuery. I was once using it for something very small in a project and I figure what the heck I can just use vanilla JS for it so I removed it. I then had several bugs because every browser has its quirks even with very basic JS. I mostly use jQuery not because I can't do it in vanilla JS, but just because thousands of hours have gone into making code that will work across different browsers and browser versions.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> actually, nearly all developpers like to build things from scratch. The real difference is, as noted in the article, the one who will use the right tool for the job and the one who take "from scratch" literraly.

I see many people, doing 'from scratch' the same things for years just for the sake of it. Without realizing they are wasting time and introducing the same bug/mistake because they can't learn anything new. And when you present them framework, library or snippets, they are reluctent to learn or simply discover them. I find the lack of curiosity and self questionning very disturbing, for a community that introduce themselves as rockstars and elite of society.

So a developper that can from scratch is for me, actually less interesting than a developper that know how to reinvent himself.

<comment><USER21> Generally, I agree with what you are saying. However, there is one example of someone speaking to the opposite view which I also agree with: Marcus Zarra: [https://vimeo.com/97058344](https://vimeo.com/97058344)

I think the key there is that he is in somewhat of a niche: client-side iOS programming. By limiting the set of problems which he is reimplenting "from scratch" again and again, he has some hope of getting very efficient at the "from scratch" approach (he becomes an expert in that approach). I also think this approach is probably only realistic for very small slice of people (top- level talent whom are also lone-wolf contractors (no oversight, no collaboration)).

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> A little off-topic, but has anyone else found that a lot of Haskellers fit into that "pet technologists" category? I've worked with a number of them, and seen them sneak Haskell in, despite it not being the best choice for the project.

<comment><USER23> The really weird thing is that the couple of people I've encountered this problem with weren't very _good_ at Haskell. A big ol' mess of code mostly in IO, scattered willy-nilly with a lot of code duplication (in Haskell of all languages!). No pipes, no lenses, unnecessarily partial functions, manual implementation of things the type system is supposed to do, just bad in every way. (Not saying you "have" to use pipes or lenses, but you ought to know what they are and choose not to use them, not have your choice forced by ignorance.)

And, uh, quite tetchy if I even hinted at the possibility there were better ways to write that stuff. These people also expect to be the only ones who know Haskell in the area and are, ahh, unprepared to be wrong.

For what it's worth, don't judge Haskell by these people anymore than you'd judge any other language by its worst adherents. It may not be The Answer To Everything (TM) but it is worth some study at some point by any developer interested in progressing their skills.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> I am definitely 'from scratch' and looking for interesting projects, so if you need someone who fills this void please do get in touch. What motivates me: social value, technological boundaries, no bullshit hard and fast artificial business-technical lines in the business, and remote capable teams (meaningful contributions and communicative value over idle presence).

</comment><comment><USER25> Well in a sense you're rarely building from scratch, in that you're using frameworks and libraries, but what he is talking about is someone who can build out your MVP. Its really pretty hard I'm in the process of building an MVP from "scratch", I'm using Meteor so not as gruesome as building a first product in bare metal C lol but one thing it takes is a manic level of dedication, forget about balance, the reason this is difficult to find is that most people expect this level of dedication for like $60-70/hour. If you want a coder to work that hard be prepared to be offering that person a CTO role, the work they're doing is so important to offer anything less than that is an insult, really. But if you're working this hard to own something then the amount of dedication it takes balances out the equation. Its not so much about problem solving as it is about dedication and tenacity, problem solving is a part of the tasks you do, sure but the central requirements are dogged tenacity and dedication in the face of adversity.

<comment><USER26> I'm in this exact position. Brought up in a startup with CTO role to build a complex piece of visual storitelling software.

A thing that miss from the list of competency is to fight thoot and nail feature creep.

We just released our mvp within a week of the estimate and it was hard to fight back all the 5 minutes types of addition that came to mind to everyone on the project.

A mvp is also an idea factory and over excitable folks will be gmtempted to add loads of stuff before user validation which kind of defeats the whole scope of it

<comment><USER27> Feature Creep means you've got a broken development process - most likely in the area of writing and approving requirements, and reviewing requirements, and so on. Never work on a project where the requirements aren't written, using a standard form and language - and never, ever, accept a verbal request for a feature - get it into a tracking system so that it can be formalized.

<comment><USER26> Doesn't really apply to my position tho. I'm the one helping defining and shaping those. Heck the whole thread is about starting from zero at the point the mvp is slight more than an idea.

<comment><USER27> But that's the point: going from zero (idea) to implemented (software) requires a few steps along the way, and imho one of those very important steps is the proper administration of requirements specifications in such a way that feature creep doesn't happen. I know its not easy: thats why its important.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> Building everything from scratch is a bad idea.

What you should be able to do is look at the needs, break them down, and communicate (and eventually develop based off such) different approaches based in the business need.

Honestly, every new project rest api or below, I look at problems as a clean slate and then weigh other team members, long term plans, quickest path(as needed), Eric.

I would think most schooled software engineers would have the acumen for such.</comment>


Why I quit Netflix - <AUTHOR> http://threads2.scripting.com/2012/november/whyIQuitNetflix <comment><USER2> They just need more relevant streaming content.</comment>


Show HN: Hl – syntax highlighting for the command line, powered by Atom - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/bcoe/hl <comment><USER2> I honestly don't understand the purpose of re-inventing every existing shell tool using NodeJS. I'm certainly _not_ against re-creating (as opposed to re- inventing) a better/more fit-for-purpose/whatever "wheel". But this is getting to be ridiculous - I'm convinced a large portion of them are created by people who somehow didn't manage to search for "<basic task> command line (linux|osx|whatever)".

To add to the confusion, it can hardly even claim to be a _better_ solution.

This: 6 languages supported, who knows how many dependent NPM modules required, can't even handle basic stuff like checking if STDIN is a TTY or not. (seriously wtf "\--pipe" ??)

Pygments: 230+ languages supported, has literally 1 requirement on Debian (python).</comment>


Google/Samsung event streamed today - <AUTHOR> http://www.tmonews.com/2011/10/watch-tonights-samsung-google-special-event-live-on-youtube/ a bit quieter than the stir that precedes an apple 'show' I'd say. <comment><AUTHOR> not that i thought it would get apple'esque hype, but surprised that the buzz on this has been pretty quite today.</comment>


Well, we're profitable, time to scale... - <AUTHOR> http://blog.200nipples.com/2008/08/a-new-design-every-two-weeks-starting-monday/

<comment><USER2> Congrats, guys. Is this paying-yourselves-market-salaries profitable, or ramen profitable? :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Ramen, if even that. (Hence, the scaling) We've all three got day jobs, which we'll be keeping for a while. (We've also got mortgages and such...)

<comment><USER3> Honestly, startups here referring to themselves as profitable that aren't paying salaries rubs me the wrong way. Salaries are the major cost in a startup. Up until that point you're just finding ways to not lose money on your hobby.

<comment><USER4> In bricks-and-mortar businesses that have real overheads (rents, wages, taxes, utility bills) and need real customers paying real money in order to sustain them, you could never say you were profitable unless your balance sheet is consistently in the black (otherwise your bank/accountant/CFO will disagree and you would be out of business).

As I work on my startup, I would never call it profitable until the total income it produces exceeds the outings and includes payment for the time I spent working on it at market rates (i.e. remuneration if I had been contracting/working for others, or a realistic payday at the end of it).

I appreciate for many, doing a startup is a passion and they work insane hours (as do I) and anything that gets publicity is good (hence, saying I earnt X in Y or was profitable after Z days/months to seek attention), but want to see people be more realistic about what being profitable actually is.

If your startup is a hobby and something you'd do anyway that generates some spare cash, then fair enough. However if you are looking at it as a serious business model, and something you want to do full time, then you should account for the time spent on it.

Can you sustain your family on the income you generate? Can you grow the business using the cash flow it creates? If not, then you are not profitable. Sorry.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I love what you guys did here! Simple idea, but brilliantly executed.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Context: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=232958> | <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=241296>

Thanks, Hacker News! You were extremely helpful in our beta.

<comment><USER6> save to say 200N has

irb(main):014:0> (1..52).to_a.sum+(1..36).to_a.sum+(1..53).to_a.sum => 3475

revenue so far (that's the least minimum), in reality, it should be higher since $100 and lower tees are getting bought out.

congrats!

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> "two-week design cycle"

Fortnightly then ;)

</comment><comment><USER8> Is the next step up the scale 1 week cycles?

I like this idea. Any ideas on how to scale past 100 shirts a week?

<comment><USER9> 101 shirts, 102 shirts, 103 shirts...

<comment><USER8> ah

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> late-comer here. I felt quite hesitant visiting a domain named 200nipples, but congrats, guys.

</comment><comment><USER11> Your server's really slow from here - some pages timeout when loading. Is everything OK?

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, we've had more problems, than I'd like. (I'd say we get great load times 80% of the time. the rest of the time it can be a little slow.) We're currently with Dreamhost, eying Media Temple.

<comment><USER9> Media Temple Grid Server had uncomfortably high latency for me. Really terrible latency, in fact.

Go VPS and never look back: Slicehost.com (best service/documentation/been on the same virtualization architecture longer than linode) or linode.com (also very highly recommended and slightly cheaper than slicehost)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Congratulations guys. Keep up the good work.</comment>


Nuster 220.127.116.11 released – A web caching proxy server based on HAProxy - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/jiangwenyuan/nuster/releases/tag/v22.214.171.124 <comment><AUTHOR> [nuster]([https://github.com/jiangwenyuan/nuster](https://github.com/jiangwenyuan/nuster)), A web caching proxy server based on HAProxy released v126.96.36.199

Added more cache purging methods, by host, by path, by regex and their combinations.

### Added

\- Purge cache by host

\- Purge cache by path

\- Purge cache by regex

### Changed

\- Incorrect host and path of cache.entry</comment>


What a hunter-gatherer diet does to the body in just three days - <AUTHOR> http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/05/health/hunter-gatherer-diet-tanzania-the-conversation/index.html <comment><USER2> "The Hadza seek out the same animals and plants that humans have hunted and gathered for millions of years."

That's quite difficult, given that humans haven't _existed_ for "millions of years" yet.

</comment><comment><USER3> "The Hadza seek out the same animals and plants that humans have hunted and gathered for millions of years"

In other words, 'whatever was in reach that could be stuffed into the pie- hole.'</comment>


Apple Developer Indifference - <AUTHOR> http://blog.forecast.io/apple-developer-indifference/ <comment><USER2> >We shot off an email to Apple Technical Support — one of the two free emails Apple allows developers to send (after which they cost $99 for a 2-pack).

Wow, this statement is such drama.

There is no "allowance" for how many emails you can send to Apple. The Apple developer evangelist email is public and emails to it are not limited. The author is confusing emails and TSIs (Technical Support Incidents).

You can also call the developer support line, which picks up after a couple rings with a live human. And you can file bugs. And you can tweet to the developer evangelists, which may be the fastest, most effective way to get an urgent problem like this on their radar.

The two TSIs that are free with your developer account (and then cost after that, if you ever even use your first two) are for code-level support, meaning "how do I accomplish this with code." This is clearly spelled out (see [https://developer.apple.com/support/technical/submit/](https://developer.apple.com/support/technical/submit/)).

They will get your question answered, if an answer is possible. Apple pulls out all the stops to get these resolved, and it's a huge misunderstanding of their purpose to use them for an outage report, and further to claim that you can only send two emails to Apple without paying.

Far from being indifferent, the Apple developer relations team is hitting it way out of the park. Yes, outages happen, and that's unfortunate. But there's no need to make something out of it that it's not.

</comment><comment><USER3> A similar problem exists on the Android Platform. The Geocoding (forward and backward service) is non-reliable, sometimes requiring a device reboot. But, at least there is a public issue tracker!

[http://developer.android.com/reference/android/location/Geoc...](http://developer.android.com/reference/android/location/Geocoder.html)

[https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/list?can=2&q=geocod...](https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/list?can=2&q=geocode&colspec=ID+Type+Status+Owner+Summary+Stars&cells=tiles)

</comment><comment><USER4> I'm not a developer, but I think it's clear that as a developer you should expect your relationship with Apple to be similar to Google's relationship to users. They rely on both to be successful, but their bread gets buttered by someone else. In Apple's case that's consumers, so you're not going to get the love that consumers would get.

<comment><USER5> Actually, Apple's one of the main selling points is the apps(remember "there is an app for that" ads?). Apple definitely wants to make developers happy but I imagine this is very hard thing to do on scale.

I don't think that Apple would risk to lose it's developers to other platforms, they should have witnessed how Windows Mobile desperately tries to boost it's app numbers and how Android pushed hard to reach big numbers of apps for everything. Their Mac platform also suffered from "everybody supports Windows" situation.

Apple also tried to stop cross platform apps getting in the AppStore by banning apps made with 3rd party tools(I believe they rationalised it by saying that it's about the app quality but later they got less stricter on this).

So yes, Apple wants to make developers happy so that IOS platform gets the best apps but it's just hard thing to do.

However it would have been better if Apple had a competitor on the premium apps business, Google's money comes from advertisement which probably keeps them unmotivated to transform their store to more premium marketplace. If Android becomes serious money-making platform this probably would push Apple harder to solve developer problems too.

<comment><USER6> > _" Apple definitely wants to make developers happy but I imagine this is > very hard thing to do on scale."_

The downtime isn't the issue, it's the lack of communication during the downtime. Things go down, it's inevitable, even Google suffers outages from time to time - but we've collectively been doing this web API thing for a while now, and there's are certain best practices that should be obvious by now.

Have a status page that's up to date. Post updates to the status page. Give ETAs when you have them, or state you don't have a ETA when you don't. I shouldn't have to waste customer service resources calling or emailing someone about this - if your service is down you should know it before I do, and should keep the status page up to date as needed.

I don't think this is really about Apple's care (or lack thereof) towards their developers. This is about Apple simply sucking really hard at anything related to the web. Despite this being the year 2014 they still have to take their store offline to make major product additions. iCloud was a veritable disaster for the first year of its existence. Their Maps data is still a cruel joke. And, evidently, their core OS web APIs can go down silently with no spokesperson or page to inform anybody.

This is, IMO, the weakest point of Apple, and where Google is most able to eat their lunch. The smartphone market is maturing, and IMO the innovation forwards will be less in the hardware side (where Apple is good) and more in the software services side (where Apple is atrocious).

<comment><USER7> > _This is about Apple simply sucking really hard at anything related to the > web_

Like having the #1 app and music stores? I'd like to suck like that!

> _Despite this being the year 2014 they still have to take their store > offline to make major product additions_.

I don't think that's any technical issue. That's how the want to present new products.

> _Their Maps data is still a cruel joke_

That are OpenStreetMap, not theirs. They just put a face on it. And its comparable with Google Maps, depending on where you live.

> _And, evidently, their core OS web APIs can go down silently with no > spokesperson or page to inform anybody._

Yeah, because if there was some spokeperson to tell the usual corporate BS we get from other web API vendors ("we are working to locate the problem" (well, duh), "seems to be an issue with our West Coast facilities" (well, duh), etc, it would really make a difference.

<comment><USER8> >>This is about Apple simply sucking really hard at anything related to the web >>Like having the #1 app and music stores? I'd like to suck like that!

How do you access the app and music store from the web?

<comment><USER7> That's beside the point. It's all web services, just with a native front-end. You might not be able to access it from a web browser (though you can see app info in one), but it's still http all right.

Besides, OP also mentions Apple Maps as an example at "Apple sucking hard on anything web related" and you can't access that from the "web" either.

The web != just the ole HTML "world wide web". We know also have native clients. We still call services with native consumers "web services" after all.

And in fact iTunes is just a glorified browser view (albeit with a custom format now IIRC, used to use plain HTML at some point).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> So why not develop your app for Android first (Dark Sky isn't available on Android)? I'm starting to see this too many times. Developers developing for Apple first, and then complaining about how badly Apple treats them. Maybe if iOS wasn't the default platform for all the hipster developers, Apple would start giving a damn about small developers.

<comment><USER10> Even with Apple-related headaches, developing for iOS is far simpler than developing for Android. You don't have to worry with making your application compatible with thirty different version/device combinations—more like eight. Additionally, iOS development is more profitable than Android development, despite having a lower userbase.

Your use of the word hipster is unclear. Does that word even have a meaningful definition anymore?

<comment><USER11> Here we go again.

What apps have you developed on Android lately?

Or your opinion is just based on what you read on the internet?

<comment> k-mcgrady I have developed for both recently. Developing for iOS is significantly more simple. I found trying to support many screen sizes on Android a nightmare. Also doing something simple like letting my app take a photo, save it, and display it was unnecessarily complicated.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> This has been Apple's way of 'working' with developers for over 20 years.

</comment><comment><USER13> I don't have a product on the market so perhaps I'm being incredibly naive, but why didn't the OP throw Apple under the bus? It seems to me a better response than panicking, using up all your free support e-mails (to no avail), and etc.

<comment><USER14> Telling your users that it's Apple's fault is not a solution. The app is still broken.

<comment><USER15> There isn't really anything they could do. Even if they switched to a non- Apple geocoding service, it would still take over a week to get the new version of the app approved, and by then the Apple service was working again. Such a service might even cost money, hurting their ability to keep working on the app, and might even be less reliable than Apple. Then you'll say they need to write support for multiple services, but that may not be worth it to save 3 days location search down time a year vs. some new feature users will use every day.

<comment><USER16> Rereading it, it is ambiguous, but their wording ( _" I awoke to a deluge of user emails alerting us to this fact, and we quickly identified the culprit: Apple's forward geocoding service was returning a 500 error code"_) gave me the impression that their app does not put up an informative error message, but instead "just didn't work", thus forcing the developer to spend time to figure out what was wrong.

If my original impression is correct, there is something they could have done: code more defensively, and give precise error messages ("the server is there, but..."). It is a little thing, but it can mean the difference between a deluge and 'just' a large flow of emails.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Seems odd they have a Developer System Status board, but not an API System Status: [https://developer.apple.com/system- status/](https://developer.apple.com/system-status/)

<comment><USER18> You mean this one? Or are you talking about something else? [http://www.apple.com/support/systemstatus/](http://www.apple.com/support/systemstatus/)

<comment><USER17> Good point, it should be on there.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> While we're on the subject - any personal recommendations for a fallback Geocoding service?

<comment><USER20> Google's is nice (unsurprisingly) but I'm not sure what the free tier limits are. If you want to try out a bunch, I recommend GeoPy:

[http://geopy.readthedocs.org/en/latest/](http://geopy.readthedocs.org/en/latest/)

I used it for a personal project recently and it really easily allows you to switch between geocoders, which was useful for the edge case that Google didn't get.

<comment><USER21> Google says:

> Using client-side Maps API services (JavaScript and Flash) in the browser is > rate limited per map session. That means that requests are distributed > across all your users and scale as the number of users grows. Therefore, > client-side APIs should be always preferred and used whenever possible.

(pretend the document wasn't written for like 2007) [https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/business/ar...](https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/business/articles/usage_limits)

Their API limits are pretty amazing for free, if you're able to distribute the load across all your clients, which on iOS is the name of the game.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> > when it comes to small developers, Apple just doesn't give a damn

I don't understand the connection to the geocoding problem. Did it only impact small developers? Was the problem fixed faster for large developers?

</comment><comment><USER7> > _How does that happen? How does such an important service — the geolocation > of addresses — just stop working for three days? And as of the writing of > this post, five days after the fact, we have yet to get a response to our > support inquiries._

It's not like there could be any other response than "It will be fixed as soon as we can". So, what exactly were they expecting to hear?

Regarding their customers, I'm not sure if this is an American vs Europe thing, but I never, ever, contact software companies for support. Nor do I know many (if any) people that do. It's 2014. You can read the manual or search for help online. And if a service is down, you wait it out and assume it will get back up. It's not like they don't know it's down, or telling them will make it go up faster. That's just like honking while on a traffic jam. Just adds noise.

Were those users really that dependent on a $1 dollar weather app that they had to "deluge" its developers in a 3-day service disruption?

I would either wait it out, or download another comparable app.

<comment><USER23> There are absolutely responses beyond "it will be fixed as soon as we can".

For clients of network services, it can be useful to know details about the scope of the outage (when did it start? who is affected? are there workarounds?). Yes, during the initial investigation there is often little to say, but even just opening up a communications channel signals to your clients that you take the outage seriously. Once a root cause has been identified, it is often possible to provide an ETA on the fix, which may take hours. Again, being able to say simply "it will be fixed in N hours" and delivering on that statement shows your clients that you know what you are doing.

Three days of outage of a externally-facing service with no communication shows that it's still amateur hour at Apple as far as network services are concerned. Full disclosure: I work for another tech company that specializes in network services, among other things.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> This has happened to me before many times, we were working on a large app recently that used in app purchases and the sandbox was down for two whole weeks. Try explaining that someone who is paying you by the hour..

The only reply I ever really had was on an forum with "We're looking into it" and that was a few days before a fix was made

</comment><comment><USER14> It's unfortunate that Apple was so slow to respond to this but since it's not a money making service for them, I'm also not surprised.

This more underlines the fact that, as others have pointed out, Dark Skies should have better fallback behavior.

</comment><comment><USER25> Rather than indifference, could also be a sign of how far Apple has to go to become great at networked services. The processes you need to maintain quality (including uptime) for a service with variable load, potentially frequent releases, actual racks of servers to keep humming, etc. is much different from the way you ensure quality in yearly hardware and OS upgrades. It's not counting Apple out or discounting the strides they've already made to note that Google and other Web-native companies still have a leg up on them here.

</comment><comment><USER26> I've had a bug in Apple's bugtracker open since February 2013. I just rechecked the behavior of the bug and while it seems like it's no longer causing a crash, it is now messing up OpenGL's state.

</comment><comment><USER27> A server being down is not a bug -- the app should expect 500 is a possibility and deal with it. In this case, why does Dark Sky need to geocode? My Lat/Long is enough to know my weather.

<comment><USER28> Even though I think this is kind of a snarky comment (and they said lat/long worked, the issue was with searches), I do agree with the underlying premise. As other folks in this thread have said, just letting people know Apple is having a problem is _not_ an acceptable solution...Location search would still be broken, and they would still be sad.

Anyway, again, I agree with the underlying premise. It seems like overkill to need to have a fallback geocoding service, but I've use Geocod.io in the past and it seemed pretty cool. I have to say though, for a single application it seems like implementing 2 of every external service you use is a ridiculous thing to expect.

<comment><USER29> You bring up an excellent point against all the folks on here saying Dark Skies should just have had a fallback geocoding service in place. By that logic every application that uses a third party service should code in a primary and a fallback. That is unrealistic!!

<comment><USER30> Why is it unrealistic? For most common services, more than one alternative API provider exists. Why not think about "what would happen if that service I do not control goes down?" and have a plan B ready for that?

That's like saying deploying a service on more than one machine in different data centers in case one of them goes down is unrealistic. We've long past that and long recognized that it is not only realistic but necessary once you're on certain scale.

<comment><USER29> The argument is for a smaller business not for a business at a certain scale. You can argue that at a certain scale you can build out your own solutions and not rely on third party APIs, at a certain scale you can purchase the absolute premium platinum support package so you can be sure your email is answered within minutes. At a certain scale you can do a whole lot of things but this is about when you're not at that certain scale. so let's think about context here.

<comment><USER30> There's a big difference between using 2 existing geosearch APIs and building your own geosearch API. I'm saying the first one is feasible even for a smaller business.

<comment><USER29> yes if it was only geosearch API that one had integrate with. It would be manageable to maintain API changes for 2 providers for 1 service. As soon as you increase the number of services you use your solution soon becomes non- trivially complex. Consider a travel app that uses a geosearch API, a mapping API, a weather API and a enroute data points API (attractions, gas stations, hotels, etc.) Would you suggest the app developer to code 8 API integrations, a primary and secondary for each of the services and maintain them for API changes?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Forecast!!

</comment><comment><USER32> Concluding that Apple doesn't care about developers has become a vogue statement to make partly because Marco has taken to saying it routinely.

It's not totally unreasonable to needle at Apple because there are lots of things they could do to improve developer relations, and openness about service status and reliability is clearly one of them.

On the other hand, taking it as true that they are actually indifferent takes a bizarre leap of logic, given how much effort they put into the tooling, the documentation, WWDC itself, making WWDC content available to those who can't attend, etc.

It's obvious that they are overloaded and are having problems scaling support for their developer community. It's far from obvious that they are indifferent.

[edit: downvotes - of course, because I'm not vehemently attacking Apple. Bear in mind that I don't think it's bad to needle at Apple, but I think it's only because people know that Apple _does_ care about what developers think that it's worthwhile. Meanwhile let's not get things out of perspective.]

<comment><USER33> It feels indifferent because talking to apple is like talking to a wall. You never get a real response, ever. And if you do, it can be the height of laziness. All of those things also benefit apple internally for their own development work.

<comment><USER32> I don't deny that it feels bad. I have filed radars and had them trivially closed or marked as duplicates.

However, you are flat out wrong to say it's "Lazy", because that implies that they have the time and resources to devote to a more thorough handling of these cases. I'd prefer that they spend more time fixing bugs and improving the software than handholding developers.

Now this doesn't mean that I think they are doing it all perfectly. They certainly should have a service status dashboard for their backend, so that the forecast.io guys could have pointed at Apple as the culprit with authority.

<comment><USER2> Apple counts every duplicate radar as a vote for getting the issue fixed, so at least your filing of these wasn't wasted, assuming they were good issues.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Without technology, you'd be dead in days - <AUTHOR> http://www.howtoflyahorse.com/without-technology-youd-be-dead-in-days/

<comment><USER2> The assimilation, via evolution, of tools as an extension of our physiology is pretty easy to contemplate and understand. Not so straightforward is the evolution of emotions. I believe that love, anger, awe, longing, etc. are not learned emotional responses. They are also passed via DNA and therefore, evolved attributes. If one accepts that our emotions are evolved and that, for us, evolution has been suspended by our use of technology (basically since adoption of agriculture), then our emotional response patterns are the same as our prehistoric ancestors. But the inputs that drive those response patterns are not.

This is a weighty discontinuity, since we are not living in a prehistoric world. Considering this discontinuity helps a great deal in understanding the, many times, illogical behaviors of myself and others. Take the affinity for team sports, for example. It is a huge business, but why? I've spent many Sunday afternoons screaming at the TV as the quarterback throws yet another interception. Why do I get so worked up? Why do I react so much like I am participating in the team's successes and failures?

My theory is that, emotionally, being part of a team of people that accomplishes tasks that individuals could not accomplish is key to my survival. With a team, I can take down a mastodon, kill a marauding saber tooth tiger, fight off enemy clans. Alone I'd have little chance. So evolution selected for teaming behaviors by using emotions to provide both the reward (elation when the team succeeds) and punishment (despair when it fails). Couple that with the need to belong to a group of people (loneliness if I don't), and you have 'fanatics' or 'fans'.

There are many such thought experiments. So when I get some free time (ha, ha) I want to take a course in evolutionary psychology:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_psychology](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_psychology)

</comment><comment><USER3> I believe the examples of animal tool-using are instinctual, not planned. So yes they use tools, and I guess the sea snail that sticks rocks to its shell is using 'tools' as well. But there's something qualitatively different in honing your tool and inventing new tools. Like we do.</comment>


Smaato UI Framework - <AUTHOR> https://smaato.github.io/ui-framework/ <comment><USER2> Wow this awesome! The integrations section really shows off the power of react:[http://smaato.github.io/ui-framework/#/grid- view](http://smaato.github.io/ui-framework/#/grid-view)</comment>


Introducing word lens - <AUTHOR> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2OfQdYrHRs&feature=player_embedded

<comment><USER2> That should be _word_ lens, not _world_ lens.

<comment><AUTHOR> corrected. thanks for the catch.</comment></comment>


SoftBank, Grab in talks for potential investment in Indonesia's new capital - <AUTHOR> https://www.techinasia.com/softbank-grab-talks-investment-indonesia-capital <comment><AUTHOR> Not often that cities are built from scratch. The new city doesn't even have a name, apparently.</comment>


Rosetta ends its mission - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/science-environment-37499184 <comment><USER2> They apparently got photos down to 5m (or maybe only 51m) above the comet. Here are images on the way down.

[https://www.cieletespace.fr/actualites/dernieres-images- de-r...](https://www.cieletespace.fr/actualites/dernieres-images-de-rosetta- avant-son-contact-avec-la-comete)

[https://twitter.com/C_et_E_Photos/status/781809777370423296](https://twitter.com/C_et_E_Photos/status/781809777370423296)

[https://twitter.com/ESA_Rosetta/status/781808178048696321](https://twitter.com/ESA_Rosetta/status/781808178048696321)

[https://twitter.com/elakdawalla/status/781809255443673088](https://twitter.com/elakdawalla/status/781809255443673088)

[https://twitter.com/C_et_E_Photos/status/781819361241817088](https://twitter.com/C_et_E_Photos/status/781819361241817088)

[https://twitter.com/ESA_Rosetta/status/781825922647355392](https://twitter.com/ESA_Rosetta/status/781825922647355392)

[https://twitter.com/elakdawalla/status/781834822583017472](https://twitter.com/elakdawalla/status/781834822583017472)

<comment><USER3> just wanted to add that I highly recommend following @elakdawalla on twitter - she tweets lots of great things about the various space missions that are in progress.

<comment><USER4> She is an absolute treasure. Her longer-form blog posts are also fantastic reading [http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily- lakdawalla/](http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I found this FAQ very informative:

[http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/Rosetta/Rose...](http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/Rosetta/Rosetta_s_grand_finale_frequently_asked_questions)

Also, the per-instrument bitrate breakdown for the last minutes:

[http://blogs.esa.int/rosetta/2016/09/28/science-til-the- very...](http://blogs.esa.int/rosetta/2016/09/28/science-til-the-very-end/)

Goodbye Rosetta!

</comment><comment><USER6> Can anyone explain why they would (a) crash, rather than attempt to land the probe on the comet's surface, and (b) turn the power off at the moment of touchdown?

Everything I've read (admittedly, not much) says they will get more data from crashing it, but that makes no sense to me. Surely landing it as intact as possible and leaving it running means it could send data whilst it has any remaining power, and maybe again in the future whenever it gets enough sunlight? Even if it was just a semi-intact archaeological curiosity for future generations, surely that would be better than wilfully destroying it?

<comment><USER7> They "crashed" it at a walking pace, at worst it's a bit twisted, definitely still an archeological curiosity. Why do that? Probably to try to get close- approach data that the detachable probe failed to. Why crash? I don't know if the vehicle even has the capability to retro-thrust itself to a stop but trying would be a fiddly maneuver and would likely mess up the science (puffing up an opaque cloud of dust, blasting the landing site). So approach- and-keep-going makes sense. But then the vehicle will lithobrake with predictable smashy consequences. So it's toast one way or the other; turning it off is probably just tidiness.

All the above is guesses but seems to make sense to me.

<comment><USER8> > …lithobrake…

Thanks for adding this to my vocabulary.

<comment><USER9> Seconded, "performed a lithobraking maneuver" is now on my list next to "rapid unscheduled disassembly".

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I'll know rosetta has "landed" when the XKCD has been updated: [https://xkcd.com/1446/](https://xkcd.com/1446/)

<comment><USER11> And indeed, it has: [http://xkcd.com/1740/](http://xkcd.com/1740/)

<comment><USER12> And Earth is saved!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Our little trouble seem so tiny, when you see something like [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ctk7stYWEAA10jf.jpg:large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ctk7stYWEAA10jf.jpg:large) and ponder on one of our vessel landing on there.

(Don't astronauts feel a very strong version of this when they look back at the blue globe from space?)

<comment><USER14> I felt something similar while using a VR headset with space simulator. It really changed me.

<comment><USER15> I would like to experience this. Could you elaborate - what space simulator was it and which VR headset? Thank you!

<comment><USER14> It was at a conference. The software was part of a suite of an edtech library. I don't remember the company. The headset was a Vive.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I love Paul Coxon's tweet of the Rosetta mission told in emoji:

[https://twitter.com/paulcoxon/status/781785896513314816](https://twitter.com/paulcoxon/status/781785896513314816)

</comment><comment><USER17> I've only been following this news very lightly - but it is fascinating. This gave me more detail on the 'why' it was being crashed: [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/rosetta-mission-what-is- it...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/rosetta-mission-what-is-it-and-when- will-it-crash-into-a-comet/)

</comment><comment><USER18> I wonder why they uploaded a special software which disallows any communication prior to the impact [1]. Why don't they just let Rosetta impact and have a look if it still works? Why is it necessary to shut it down to disallow command instructions from earth?

[1] [http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/Rosetta/Rose...](http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/Rosetta/Rosetta_s_grand_finale_frequently_asked_questions)

<comment><USER19> The antenna is incredibly strong (or would be if it got some sunlight) so it's important to not interfere with communications in deep space that we may want in the future and even sensors on earth. These scientists—I imagine—fell in love a long time ago from staring at the deep beauty of space; it'd be quite a shame if we drowned it out with our petty no-longer-useful noises.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Wait a second. With every other probe or rover story the experts talk about how there is no "shutdown" command, that there is no need and that having one only creates a risk of inadvertent use.

Is this just PR to cover the fact that this probe will be sitting alone in the dark but still 'alive' should it get enough power? See [https://xkcd.com/695/](https://xkcd.com/695/)

</comment><comment><USER21> feel strangely emotional about the end of the mission :(

</comment><comment><USER22> GMT is deprecated, please use UTC instead: "GMT is no longer precisely defined by the scientific community" \- [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time)

<comment><USER23> Trying to tell the Brits not to use GMT is like trying to tell the HN audience that there are exactly 1000 bytes in a kilobyte ;)

<comment><USER24> Or getting Americans on the metric system.

<comment><USER25> You start by making gun calibres metric. Then they either start using the metric system or stop using guns. Win either way.

<comment><USER26> No then we just end up with two standards, like a 9mm caliber which is the same as the .380 ACP and others (diameter wise)</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Free Angry Birds for Android - <AUTHOR> http://www.amazon.com/mobile-apps/b?ie=UTF8&node=2350149011 <comment><USER2> US only.

</comment><comment><USER3> Forces you to provide credit card.

Auto starts at boot.

Purveyors of the worst android app: amazon mp3 store that can't be installed or stopped!</comment>


Show HN: Super smash TV game clone with online coop - <AUTHOR> https://smushtv.io <comment><USER2> This is pretty fun; as someone who played a lot of SmashTV as a kid in arcades (once, a friend and I managed to crash the video processor), this is great to see. I love the 8-bit chunky graphics.

Will there be sound added later?

Also - you need to add something to stop "clumps" from forming; when you die, then start again - you can land inside a clump of enemy and basically "insta- die". Maybe have them disperse when you die (IIRC, the original game did this).

Will source be released?</comment>


The Inside Story of the Facebook Movie - <AUTHOR> http://wired.com/magazine/2010/09/ff_thesocialnetwork/all/1

<comment><USER2> This sums it up beautifully...

"From a plot standpoint, you could've told the same story about the invention of a really good toaster," Sorkin says. "The fact that it's Facebook just makes it ironic, that the world's most successful social-networking device was the work of a socially awkward guy."

<comment><USER2> Mezrich says. "Mark found out he was talking to me and made it part of the settlement that Eduardo couldn't speak to me again." (Saverin wound up with a reported 5 percent of the company, worth roughly $600 million. He didn't respond to an interview request.)</comment></comment>


How to live large in a tiny house - <AUTHOR> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/where-we-live/wp/2015/04/06/how-to-live-large-in-a-tiny-house/ <comment><USER5> I love the idea of tiny houses (and not-so-tiny houses like this one) clumped around a much larger shared space. I love it so much that I'm part of a (currently) seven party consortium trying to find rural acreage in unincorporated parts of the outer SF Bay Area to build such a thing. What we've discovered is that zoning ordinances in every county of California are openly hostile to the idea. The general rule is basically one ginormous single-family home (with a single kitchen) per parcel. Sometimes a second, but that's pretty much it.

It might be possible to get variances or special permits from friendly planning departments, but it's hard to convince a group of people to make large $ investments in dreams which could be destroyed arbitrarily by changing political winds. We may take the risk anyways, but our problem has gone from practical matters of structure and finance to a fundamentally political one.

This is really a shame. I suspect that a lot of people, like us, would be perfectly happy in low-footprint small (<500 sq ft) homes as long as they had easy access to a fancy kitchen, home theater, storage, etc in a space shared with a dozen of their friends. I always wondered why this isn't common - <USER2> the answer is, at least in California, it's effectively illegal.

<comment><USER6> Your idea is basically a smaller version of a Kibbutz (excluding the shared finances). Interesting to see that kind of approach pop up in the US.

<comment><USER7> Utopian communes in the US predate the Kibbutz by almost 100 years. They mostly died out by the early 1900s.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_Utopian_commun...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_Utopian_communities)

</comment></comment></comment><comment> design-of-homes I live in the UK, and the tiny house movement appears to be a uniquely American phenomenon. The US is lucky to have so much open space which lets people build their own homes. The reason these tiny homes don't feel cramped is because they're surrounded by nature, with beautiful long uninterrupted views out of the windows. No noisy neighbours or traffic nearby either.

But take away the countryside location of these homes and could the tiny house work in an urban environment? I'm doubtful. The future for housing for most people on the planet (including the US) is in cities and urban environments. Can you live in a tiny home where you don't have long, uninterrupted views out of your windows? Or where you only have windows along one side of your dwelling (e.g. single-aspect apartments). Do you feel you have enough privacy when your apartment or house is joined with your neighbours' home?

Millions of people already live in homes like this and have to contend with these issues. The challenge for homebuilders and architects is to design housing to address these issues: homes that give us light, space, privacy, quiet and comfort in a noisy urban setting. Sadly, if I look at the new build housing going up in the UK I'd say architects and house builders are doing a pretty poor job of it. Are things better in the US in this regard?

Also, space can be 'modest' in size rather than micro or miniature and still be sustainable or amenable to high density. For example, London has it's own housing design guide that recommends new one bedroom apartments for _two people_ to be a minimum of 50 square metres (538 square feet). That's still less than space standards in continental Europe but it's enough space to live comfortably even if it doesn't count as tiny by Western standards.

<comment><USER8> > The future for housing for most people on the planet (including the US) is > in cities and urban environments.

I agree. Skyscrapers would provide the best bang for buck in terms of space. You could fit a lot more people into a city like San Francisco.

<comment><USER9> As a general rule, skyscrapers _don 't_ increase density much, as most of the space is taken up by elevators, plumbing, electrical, and so forth. A block of five-floor walkups is almost as dense as a 50-story tower-with-empty-space- around-it, and much less expensive to build.

Walkups, not skyscrapers, are the best bang for the buck.

<comment><USER10> How much space around the skyscraper? Surely at least half of each floor is usable, right? I can't find any normal tower floor plans that differ.

Ten times as many floors is a lot of floors...

<comment> design-of-homes This is an excerpt from a book called _At Home in the City: an introduction to urban design_ which explains how the same plot of land can accomodate different types of development and different densities. Medium-rise blocks can match and exceed the density of high-rise blocks - see the attached pic in the excerpt below for an example:

 _" In 1972 Leslie Martin and Lionel March published a cogent analysis of the key forms of urban development. They postulated that on any given site development can take three basic forms which they called 'pavilion','street' and 'patio'. These forms cover different proportions of the ground area.

If developed with buildings of the same height and depth the pavilion form would provide the lowest density and the patio form the highest. On the other hand, constructing a given amount of floorspace would need buildings of different height depending on which form they took. Figure 2.2 illustrates this principle [see: [http://imgur.com/LmJ1tTg](http://imgur.com/LmJ1tTg) ]. It shows that the same amount of floorspace could be built on the same site as a fifteen-storey tower block, five-storey linear blocks or a three-storey perimeter block."_

<comment><USER10> Interesting, but they seem to be keeping the floorspace constant on purpose there. With such a narrow tower you could fit four on that plot!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I have a project that I eventually want to get off the ground. It has to do with improving how we build houses by making all interior structure modular.

I don't necessarily think "small" is the way to think about it. Instead if a family lives in a house for decades their priorities / needs change. So, for example, the retired couple who still live in the house with 2 bedrooms for their children when they first bought the house.

Or what about the house that's available and in an ideal location and has all the right things, but it's a one-bedroom with plenty of square feet, but where will the kids sleep?

If you had a modular way of reconstructing the interior of the house, and they redo the walls using inexpensive modular components, all of a sudden maybe now their master bedroom is twice the size it was, or maybe that space becomes a loft / sitting area instead.

Suddenly it makes sense that a family could reasonably expect to live in the same house over long periods of time comfortably, if it suits them, no matter the changing circumstances that life presents them.

EDIT: And make far better use of the space they have over time as circumstances change.

<comment><USER12> A place here in town builds modular office environments that have snap- together walls, etc. Sort of like huge cubicles that are grown all the way up instead of slapped together. They have giant metal base plates that you install on the exterior walls of the floor and then you click your "fake walls" into them at right angles. You can even get sound deadening panels or colour inserts that slide inside the walls.

I asked one of the guys on the tour why they don't do it for houses. He replied that the problem with houses is that it's rare to find houses that are actually built with enough precision to have perfectly square corners and perfectly vertical walls. It doesn't really make sense to go to that extent for a narrow-margin stickbuilt 2- to 3-storey dwelling that doesn't support the immense weight of an office building.

The modular idea could still work. You'd just have to add this little hacky layer in between to adapt the out-of-plumb house bits to the injection-moulded modular walls or whatever. I dunno what that layer would look like and still be cheaper than making changes to a home the traditional way.

Good luck if you do it, I can't wait to buy it.

<comment><USER13> USM, a Swiss modular furniture company built a modular building platform back in the late 60's. It was based on the same idea as their furniture - <USER3> scaffolding+panel design.

Unfortunately it didn't take off then, only a few buildings were built with it. It's a shame because it looked very modern, very cool, and frankly I'd like to own one of those buildings.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> "(why the standard ceiling height in this country is 8 feet is a concept I will never understand)"

One word: efficiency

Tall ceilings create a heating and cooling nightmare. In my area a number of builders over the last two decades came into the valley from warmer climates like Arizona and built a bunch of homes with very tall ceilings. People loved them and they kept building, then a cold winter comes along and people complain about their $800/month+ heating bills in what was claimed to be an energy efficient home.

<comment><USER15> Two words: ceiling fans. :)

My house has a tall main room that spans two floors. People ask me why I have the fans on in the winter... and I tell them that it keeps our heating costs down. It's counterintuitive, but true.

<comment><USER16> Wow, eye opening, and actually quite logic given that warm air travels to the top.

<comment><USER17> Ceiling fans actually have a little toggle on the side to switch from 'blow' to 'suck'. Doing so circulates the air without the direct 'breeze' across your skin which may chill you.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> tuna-piano A couple more pictures here: [http://www.caswelldaitcharchitects.com/mountainhome/uvoyzzub...](http://www.caswelldaitcharchitects.com/mountainhome/uvoyzzubo4twa7ero1203qz54svuh6)

</comment><comment><USER18> ITT bay area people that can barely afford to buy a studio apartment cause prices be cray and they can only dream about having a tiny house.

This is how it's done in Europe:

[http://humble-homes.com/heijmans-one-affordable-tiny- house-a...](http://humble-homes.com/heijmans-one-affordable-tiny-house- amsterdam/)

<comment><USER19> To be fair, Europe is packed with barely liveable spaces being rented/sold at exorbitant prices

Yes, I'm talking about the UK (and Ireland)

<comment><USER20> is the uk really that bad though? i feel like most flats outside of london are reasonably priced. london z1/2 on the other hand... ;)

<comment><USER21> This could be an entire discussion on it's own :) , if you are in the U.K. then see what Crossrail is doing to property development and prices. Wherever a building/construction company find's permission to build, they are building blocks of flats. That should have an expected outcome of price dilution due to availability BUT doesn't seem like that's happening. The worse thing I fear that may happen is that areas which have houses at the moment may start converting into areas with flats. There already are more than one examples of that happening in the area I live. Decent areas of London are out anybody's price range. Too many straight out cash buyers wanting to park their monies :-/

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> That's pretty cool. For better worse, a pre-condition for living in a tiny house is having the land to build one on. For my family, an amenity of our somewhat larger house happens to be its location, among nice neighbors, near public transit, and within walking or biking distance to all of our daily destinations such as work and school.

<comment><USER23> So, you _can_ build portable tiny homes, though that constrains the tininess even more so.

Another pre-condition is being in a city with tiny house-friendly zoning regs.

As someone who frequently entertains the notion and novelty of tiny living, I keep up with it, and know more than a few folks who have been evicted from their tiny homes.

D.C. has actually been making it harder to live in tiny homes, as they are non-conformant structures in which you can "camp", temporarily, but cannot live, so there's this shell game going on of tiny home dwellers rotating out their dwellings just frequently enough to be on the right side of the law.

<comment><USER24> What laws or regulations have caused the people you know the most trouble? I remember some stories in the past about sewer or water regulations causing problems, but not for tiny houses.

<comment><USER25> A lot of towns have minimum square footage requirements that are too high for tiny homes to be legal

<comment><USER26> That's slowly changing; stop by [https://www.reddit.com/r/tinyhouses](https://www.reddit.com/r/tinyhouses) for details.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> This is my idea of _tiny house_ :

[http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/products/cypress](http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/products/cypress)

</comment><comment><USER28> While it's not nearly as small as the one in the article, my house is on the smaller end of many Bay Area homes (1600 sqft on a very narrow lot). But nobody who visits believes that it's only 1600 sqft - they all think it's closer to 2000, probably because the architect vaulted the entry/living-room ceiling to 15ft, and the upstairs bedrooms to 13 ft.

What's harder about living in a small house as your primary home (not a vacation home like the article) is storage space, especially when you have kids.

There are also clever ways of doing built-in storage in a small home that minimize the use of living space. Of course you also can't be a packrat.

I recommend Dwell magazine as a great source for small living space design ideas.

<comment><USER29> I find it ironic that you call 1600 sqft "small". Here is a pretty standard 700 sqft house in the UK that a family of 4 would comfortably fit in - <USER4> wouldn't really call this small:

[http://m.zoopla.co.uk/for- sale/details/36576725?search_ident...](http://m.zoopla.co.uk/for- sale/details/36576725?search_identifier=ebac26e1115e16a6599b7e27c778c8c2)

<comment><USER30> It isn't surprising, the US is relatively empty compared to the UK. California is about 40% the density of the UK, the citified regions of the east coast are denser than the UK average, but that is about it.

There are also substantially different histories in play (when was the last time the UK government was giving 65 hectares to anybody that asked? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_Acts](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_Acts) ).

<comment><USER31> _when was the last time the UK government was giving 65 hectares to anybody that asked?_

I think it was a bit after 1066, if you had the good luck of being Norman and if William was feeling generous that day.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> If I were to buy something like one of these tiny houses on a trailer[1], is there a place to set it up in the bay area for a reasonable cost?

1\. [http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/](http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/)

</comment><comment><USER33> And here's how to live large in an actual tiny house: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQM7a5Yjp9g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQM7a5Yjp9g)

<comment><USER5> I thought you were going to post this link: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6pj3jVgeh8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6pj3jVgeh8)

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> It's a vacation home that looks fairly secluded, has big windows and nice furniture. Am I just too paranoid? This seems like the sort of thing that's due for an inevitable burglary. That's one attraction to me of the cargo container homes, despite the terrible aesthetic. If you need to go on an extended trip, you can just throw a cargo lock on the front door and be done with it.

<comment><USER35> >Am I just too paranoid?

Pretty much :-) Not really different from just about any other house in a more or less rural environment.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> This is one of my favorite tiny houses:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSzgh3D7-Q0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSzgh3D7-Q0)

</comment><comment><USER37> *vacation house

<comment><USER38> Which therefore they're not "living in" in the common sense of the phrase but are "holidaying in". Rich people, pah.

"I work my office job from a toilet cubicle. You guys paying for offices are schmucks. Here's how I do it, I go to the toilet for free right next door to my office space I rent for $5000/mo. I'm working in entirely cost free space for the whole day. Then for the other 8 hours 45 minutes of my 9 hour day I work from the office. See, it's easy; can't see why people don't do this more!"

/tired, bad humour

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> This is a good manual for hackers. I live on tight budget and it's preety tought to have a room by myself with a lot of space

</comment><comment><USER40> "Tiny house"

A vacation house bigger than most people I know can afford for their actual home. And than the author speaks of "making sacrifices". Makes me want to throw up.

<comment><USER41> How can you say that? I don't actually see the square footage of the house mentioned anywhere, but it doesn't appear to be overly large (once you account for the optical tricks the author used to make the space appear larger than it is). My estimate would be somewhere around 800 sq. ft., which isn't unreasonable for a vacation home.

<comment><USER42> We're a family of four living in 550sq foot. Maybe I should write an article.

<comment><USER43> House? You're lucky to have a house. We used to live in one room, all twenty- six of us, no furniture, half the floor was missing, and we were all huddled together in one corner for fear of falling.

<comment><USER42> Glad someone got the irony. Where I grew up we couldn't afford irony.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>