Catalyst: a new front-end developer training program - <AUTHOR> http://catalystclass.com/?ref=hn

<comment><USER2> It's like the movie Ratatouille: Not everyone can be a good coder, but a good coder can come from anywhere.

While they may receive an impossibly large number of candidates, in the end, they will boil it down to roughly 15 students. That means that as long as their application process is sane, they will have found 15 good candidates who are going to be 'coding for the right reasons', whatever that means.

This is different from codecademy, which says that anyone and everyone should learn to code. Instead, they're claiming that you don't need a CS degree to be a professional programmer. That doesn't mean they're also saying you don't need to be dedicated, and analytical. Ultimately, the people who enter these programs are the kinds of people who would have made it on their own, albeit on a much longer timeline. I don't see any problem with jumpstarting it with careful curation and guidance.

</comment><comment><USER3> I shed tears for the companies that hire the "graduates" of this "start to finish plan."

I don't care how good of an instructor you are, you cannot make a programmer remotely efficient in HTML5 (primarily the countless APIs involved), CSS3, AND JavaScript in only 12 weeks.

I don't know how that job placement is going to work -- but unless these learners start as interns, I don't know how beneficial this would be for them.

There's "jumping into the deep end" and then there's "jumping into the Atlantic." I get a sense of the latter with this program.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey there -- I'm Shawn, a cofounder at Catalyst.

I have to admit that I was also skeptical when I heard about this model, but empirically, it works. (We're not the first program of this type -- there are several others.) Learning goes really fast when you have a lot of smart, dedicated people in a room, and employers see value in graduates.

Meanwhile, consider the alternatives available to our potential students. My buddy JP is probably going to be one of our first students. He had the most popular Harry Potter fansite in the 90s, and has run websites for most places he's worked in the last several years. He's gone through codecademy, but his last job was as a delivery guy. Do you really think this is going to make his future worse?

<comment><USER4> Can you share the empirical evidence that it works? There is a lot of talk about these programs but not many resources on the outcomes that I know of.

<comment><USER5> Not sure if this counts as empirical evidence but I was a Dev Bootcamp graduate. Working full time now. I recognize the deficiencies in my knowledge and experience before anyone else does, and there are many, but I am stil learning and loving what I do.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> In response to the "There is NO way a person can become a productive programmer in 10 weeks"

Programming and software engineering are about solving complex problems. Most of the people who get into these programs, start with the skills required to program, ie, curiosity about solving problems with technology. Also, the goal of the program isn't to graduate soloist-rock star programmers, it is to graduate super smart well grounded personalities who can be super- atmospherically-high quality apprentice's, which is totally plausible. There is like a 10:2 engineering to all other jobs ratio that probably won't go away. Spending a small chunk of time/money (I spent 10k for DevBootCamp) versus getting a traditional 4year CS degree, which is in no way shape or form proven to be a great path to becoming a solid engineer, is a no brainer.

Tony who is one of the teachers at Catalyst taught me a bunch at devbootcamp. He is incredibly smart and patient, does an extremely good job of instilling in people that they can themselves solve complex problems. I myself did devbootcamp this summer, it was a great experience and forever increased my impact as a person and technologist.

</comment><comment><USER7> Congratulations to Shawn and Tony for launching this new venture! I know you guys have taken big personal and professional risks to follow this dream (you know, quitting your jobs, putting up your life savings, professional reputations on the line, etc). From the hard work and pure hustle I've seen so far, I've got great confidence that you will be successful. Huzzah!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks Doug :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> This is cool, but somewhat ironically your site doesn't render too well in my browser. It (specifically the nav) flickers, and doesn't render fully when scrolling long distances. It also could use some padding. I'm on Chrome latest for iOS on an iPad.

Anyways, rendering aside, I love more resources, so I'll keep an eye on this.

</comment><comment><USER9> Perhaps check the source and remove/correct some things like:

      !-- janky continuation of loop -->

      <form method="post" action="/" onsubmit="console.log('asdf')">
      Interested?

Basic stuff like adding image alt attributes and image dimensions, semantic mark-up, descriptive page title etc.

I like the idea, but consider creating a cool front-end to present it, not this Wordpress theme. I think it would add to your credibility.

<comment><USER10> Thanks for the suggestion, but actually I totally disagree. Spending time coding Javascript and spending time teaching or preparing to teach Javascript are two different things.

If I were a student, I would want a group of guys to get a wordpress theme and reinvest all the time they saved into making the program better for me.

<comment><USER9> You disagree with the suggestion to clean up the code? Because teaching how to code and writing code are two different things, I agree.

It is great you saved time by using a theme and hacking it a bit for your purpose. Perhaps now there is some time to make your site accessible, credible and adherent to standards, like you teach your students?

You know best where to invest your time. This shouldn't take too long though.

      <meta name='robots' content='noindex,nofollow' />

Is that supposed to be there? You are already indexed, but lack a snippet, due to this. Google substituted your page title in the results with your first
 ("Learn to code. Get a job.")

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> This is really a great initiative, too bad most of these programs require moving to SF for a few weeks, which puts working adults / parents / anyone who wants to do a career change practically out of the picture. I wish there was something like this here in Atlanta, I know many people that would have signed up

<comment><USER12> It's not just the move that puts this program out of the reach of people with kids or other commitments -- it's the entire schedule. 12 weeks of 10am to 9pm, Monday through Saturday? This is basically a way of saying (whether intentionally or not), do not bother to apply if you are not young. Do not bother if you place too high a value on spending time with your spouse, or your kids, or your girlfriend, or your boyfriend, or your aging grandmother. Do not bother if you've already committed some of your waking hours to serving your community or your church or a part time job that you use to pay the bills.

Don't get me wrong: Tech training is incredibly valuable, and is increasingly critical to the economy. And I believe intensive training has merit. This program may well produce some stars. But why can't it do the same on a 9-6p M-F schedule? What's less intensive about that?

So I hope this doesn't become a model. Because we don't gain much by reinforcing the stereotype that technology is just for young single people who would rather spend the night in front of their computers than with their friends and families. If you want to broaden the appeal of Web development, let's start training real people.

<comment><USER13> I would guess that the major alternative for most of the applicants for this program would be studying on their own. You can take as long as you'd like to learn. Doing that, you can spend as much time as you'd like with friends/family, doing community work or anything else you choose. If you're motivated (and possibly unemployed), doing whatever it takes over a 3 month period to learn how to do front-end development might make sense. But like any other decision, there are tradeoffs. This "all-in" boot-camp style takes a lot of dedication. I don't think there's much risk of it becoming the primary way people learn to code, and even if it does, one can still learn on their own as easily as they could before.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Name conflict: <http://www.catalystframework.org/>

</comment><comment><USER15> I often am very sketchy on the merits of Coffeescript, but how does it have a position on a 12wk crash-course? We can't even expect a competent non- programmer to jQuery-programmer in that span of time; much less great competency in JavaScript; and now another level of abstraction? Why?

<comment><AUTHOR> I actually agree that there are great reasons to write plain JS, but Coffeescript is an awesome teaching tool (to explain compilers, the difference between syntax and programming, etc).

<comment><USER15> OK, that sounds like a fantastic use of Coffeescript, as it is probably rather dry with standard, "lower level" curriculum of the same subjects. Speaking of which, is there somewhere to find "the curriculum?" I obviously made a mistake in assuming this might be another case of pushing Coffeescript for all the wrong reasons.

Kudos, nonetheless, as this would be a superb addition to what is really lacking in our education with younger crowds. What is the expected out-reach to those just out of High School or in pre College-Degree status?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> The Phillips Bros. (Tony & Marcus) are fantastic. I can't wait to see the front-end engineers this course produces.

If you're looking into an accelerated development training course and are confused by the many courses similar to Dev Bootcamp, Catalyst seems like the best option for front-end development. I'd wager that starting salaries of Catalyst grads will confirm this.

</comment><comment><USER17> Who are you trying to market this program to? I feel like the group of people who are willing to dedicate 3 months and have $10k-$15k sitting around is alarmingly small.

I think I could benefit greatly from attending this, but only being a few years out of college and still in debt means I would be crazy to attend.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, we're keenly aware of the catch 22 here :/ We're working on some creative solutions, but it's very expensive to put on a program like this, and many of our students will need to draw on help from friends and family. It helps that this kind of program can lead directly to a high-paying job.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> How is this different than Dev Bootcamp (<http://devbootcamp.com>), other than the front-end focus?

The homepage says Tony, one of the four staff, used to work there.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey there -- I'm Shawn, a cofounder of Catalyst.

Our experience is that students and potential employers are asking for a longer program, so ours runs for 12 weeks instead of 9.

We think class size is a big determinant of educational outcomes, so we think students might be interested to know that we'll have 15 students in our cohort (vs 60 in DBC's if I recall correctly).

Our hours are longer -- 10-9, six days a week. We're asking you to take time off of your normal life, and we think it's important to provide a very immersive environment for you to make the most of that period.

We're going to put a lot more effort into helping you with your job search process. Our hiring day is after week 10, and weeks 11 and 12 consist of preparation aligned with the jobs that you'd like to get, practice interviews, etc.

Hope that helps!

<comment><USER19> Hey Shawn,

Jesse, here. For those just tuning in, Shawn & I know each other and I help run Dev Bootcamp. Tony Phillips, one of Shawn's co-founders, was a teacher-in- training at Dev Bootcamp for 5 months and before that a student in our first, 8-week cohort.

A few corrections:

1\. Our current cohort has 54 students. Starting January 28th, we'll have 48 students in the space at a given time. Although it's been challenging, we've so far been able to increase group cohesion as we increase class size.

Below a certain size it's very easy for students to feel isolated if they can't find at least one other student to identify with.

2\. Although our core hours are 9AM-6PM Monday-Friday, most students are here 12+ hours per day, 6-7 days per week. 75% of the class was here last weekend, for example. We keep a tight container on core hours and give students flexibility on off hours.

The average student is working for about ~750 hours over the course of Dev Bootcamp.

Also, about 50% of each cohort comes from out-of-state, and about 20% have families and children. Trust me, they're "tak[ing] time off [their] normal life."

3\. We've worked with around ~100 companies over the course of our hiring days and none of them are asking for a longer training period. If an employer is skeptical, there's little difference between 9, 10, or 12 weeks.

Twitter hired one of our summer students as an intern, for example, and their initial skepticism was more along the lines of, "How could 10 weeks compare to a 4-year University CS education?" That's a rough paraphrase from a conversation I had with a head of their head of college recruiting in April.

On the flip side, virtually all employers return for future hiring days and about half send employees to become mentors for students in the following DBC class. I'll grant you that we might be talking to different employers.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> I don't think the issue here is whether this works or not. The point is that there aren't enough devs. That several programs like these are starting, and that companies are willing to hire, gives you a glimpse of the demand for developers these days.

I believe this trend will continue in the near future, and people with the capacity to become hireable programmers will transfer from other professions.

</comment><comment><USER21> Jeez, 11 hours a day, 6 days a week? I guess a masochistic streak is an asset in web development, but this borders on unhealthy.

</comment><comment><USER22> Awesome, congrats to Tony and Shawn for launching. Wishing you the best! Feel free to check out <http://www.hackbrightacademy.com> for a software dev training program for women.

<comment><USER10> Thanks a bunch. I've been reading good things about the new class in blogs. Keep up the good work!

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> I notice that you don't have a client-side framework (e.g., backbone) listed under "The Program". Is this just an omission or something that you have consciously done?

Good luck with your course!

<comment><USER10> Thanks so much for the kind wishes. We haven't decided on a client-side framework yet (though I do like backbone), so we were holding off until we had decided what we wanted to include in the curriculum.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> This looks very interesting but why is the start date november? Its a little inconvenient. Why not make it January to start at the beginning of the year?

<comment><USER25> They also mention there's a new class starting every month. What I was curious about and didn't see mentioned specifically was the cost of tuition if any?

EDIT: Well I need to read more closely as well, I found the answer: _Tuition: We're still deciding on the total price, the payment plan options, and scholarship details._

<comment><USER10> We are still figuring out the details of our pricing scheme, but one thing we are committed to is not letting finance problems stop us from accepting a good applicant. If you are at all worried about the price, I would suggest applying and we will try our best to find a way to make it possible to attend.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Oh man... come to NYC. Dying here. (If anyone knows of anything in NYC, let me know. I'm out of the loop and search stinks these days...)

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey Mike! We'd love to, sounds like fun. In the meantime, try our buddies at <http://flatironschool.com/>

<comment><USER26> It seems to diverge from my goal, which is to really learn JavaScript (learning HTML5 and CSS are bonuses). Seems to focus on Ruby on Rails and hardcore web development.</comment></comment></comment>


One heck of a bio - <AUTHOR> http://worrydream.com/Bio/

<comment><USER2> I've always had a few ideas to explore in the back of my mind, hoping I'd get to them once I retire or "have more time (tm)":

* Understand the EE (lowest-level) part of computing. Work on embedded devices.

* Getting rid of the nagging feeling there is something I'm missing about differential equations (this despite acing the respective uni math courses on solving them).

* Explore cognitive science (the intersection of math/computing/psychology/NLP/communication).

* Learn proper design, create a personal website I can be proud of.

* Explore the low-frequency heartbeat of civilizations (cyclic patterns by which social structures act and react).

Bret already did all that and much more. Plus he polished, published and (sometimes) sold it. This guy is phenomenal. His KillMath project is something I would actively support, if I better knew how...

Btw, does Bret Victor have a HN account?

<comment><USER3> "* Getting rid of the nagging feeling there is something I'm missing about differential equations (this despite acing the respective uni math courses on solving them)."

Bret talks about this here (scroll down to 'A Possibly Embarassing Personal Anecdote'):

<http://worrydream.com/#!/KillMath>

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Long-Term Goal (paraphrased): Wants to destroy consumer culture and corporation's oligarchical control over employment, entertainment and creativity.

Worked at: Apple.

<comment><USER2>
      keep your friends close, your enemies closer :-)

Seriously though, his experience at Apple seems to have left him somewhat jaded: <http://worrydream.com/#!/Apple>

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Honestly though, the text in the left column is kinda unreadable.

</comment><comment><USER6> The rest of the site is even more impressive, especially the reactive documents: <http://worrydream.com/TenBrighterIdeas/>

</comment><comment><USER7> Mr. Victor's personal site is one of the most impressive I've come across. It's borderline magical.

Hate that he broke my back-button, though.

<comment><USER8> Seems to work for me. Where's it broken?

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I remember using Lloyd radio in early 1999 and thinking, "WTF, why doesn't this just stream mp3s?". At that point, he was still 1 year behind being 2 years ahead of the times.

</comment><comment><USER10> It's cute but what you didn't learn is that ~10% of the world have issues with vision and therefore will not see or hear any of your admittedly nice words...

<comment><USER11> And 63% of the world doesn't speak english!

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> missing; quantity of carbon you absorbed and emitted, amount of dopamine you segregated..

</comment><comment><USER13> worrydream.com has become an old friend around HN - [http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=worrydream....](http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=worrydream.com)

(Not w/o good reason.)

</comment><comment><USER14> Very cool, but I have no idea what he does exactly. Programmer? Designer? Scientist?

<comment><USER15> It's not his CV it's a biography of the stuff you don't put in a CV.

(his CV is on the site.

<http://worrydream.com/#!/cv/bret_victor_resume.pdf>

He's a Hardware Designer + Programmer + UI Designer + Scientist + Electronics Engineer.

Oh, and he designed the original UI for the iPad)

<comment><AUTHOR> lol @ the sublime way you replied to the parent query .. it is his journey that is truly remarkable.. rare to see someone this multiskilled. The man's a diamond. Reminds me of Pavel Florensky[1] strangely.

[1] - <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Florensky>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> does anyone know what he used to generate those graphs/graphics? Page looks great, too bad almost nothing is clickable (i.e. few links to about/contact/blog/etc.)

<comment><USER17> It looks good, but what exactly do I get out of that page as someone who wants to know who this guy is (which, as I understand, is the purpose of a bio)? It doesn't even say his _name_.

<comment><USER18> Seeing that he categorizes income as "bound" vs "free" tells me far more about him than his name would. And that is just one of many such details.

<comment><USER17> I don't think such details are not mutually exclusive with the generally useful information.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Hey Bret!</comment>


The Copyright Bubble - <AUTHOR> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1504130&cid=30708172

<comment><USER2> I wish I had written that. It's really good.</comment>


Another neo-Nazi site, Stormfront, is shut down - <AUTHOR> https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/28/another-neo-nazi-site-stormfront-is-shut-down/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29 <comment><AUTHOR> I am no fan of stormfront.org or any other racist organization, but this is not acceptable.

When a person registers a domain name, they become the owners of that domain name. It does not belong to the registrar they hired to procure it, and they are not "leasing" the name from the registrar. A lease would suggest that the registrar owned the domain name prior to registration, which is not the case. And if you extrapolate, it suggests that some entity owns all unclaimed domain names de-facto, which is also not the case.

When you purchase a domain name, that does not award the registrar the status of "Actual Owner" of that domain. They are providing a technical service, nothing more.

ICANN should probably get involved and punish Network Solutions for this action.

Network Solutions might be within their rights to choose to no longer 'host' the domain name themselves, but in that case they must be obligated to arrange for a transfer to a different registrar. What they are not allowed to do is simply steal the domain name from it's actual owner because they disagree with the content of the owner's website, thus preventing a transfer.

It is important that we do not allow corporations to steal control or property from the open internet by using these politically charged circumstances as their theater of operation.

<comment><USER2> if they became the owners, they wouldn't have to re-up every period of time.

<comment><USER3> This is a good point, but I think you could still make the case that you own it. Is the yearly registration fee analagous to a subscription, or to property taxes?

I don't have the answer here; curious to find out what everyone thinks.

<comment><USER4> It's not a matter of what people think it's a matter of law. When you register a domain name with NetworkSolutions, you do not own that domain name.

<comment><USER5> What law are you referring to?

<comment><USER4> Contract law.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I've always considered extremists as "canaries" \--- you may not agree with any of their views, but their existence serves as a "buffer" of sorts, to show where the current boundaries are. Thus, when they disappear, what is next considered extremist will gradually edge closer to normalcy.

In denouncing racism and other forms of extremism, we have to be careful not to turn society into a heavily normalised monoculture that, ironically, many of these extremist groups are themselves proponents of.

<comment><USER7> Sorry, but this is nonsense.

Eliminating racism doesn't turn society into a monoculture--it permits lots of different cultures to coexist without threat of violence.

The world would be better off in every way without racism (except for those who directly benefit from racism--but fuck those guys.)

<comment><USER8> Yes, absolutely we should try to eliminate racism and society would be better off in every way. But there are many methods to eliminate racism. Do we want to persecute them and turn them into martyrs? Or do we want to educate them and change their minds?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Sounds about right. Registrars have been taking down jihadist forums for a very long time merely for discussing violence; white nationalists must have realized they were living on borrowed time.

The article makes it sound like the Southern Poverty Law Center's findings were key in Network Solutions' decision. I wonder if the same will apply to other groups the SPLC tracks as hate groups. The Nation of Islam's domain remains with Network Solutions.

</comment><comment><USER10> Ugh, I don't have a problem with saying that you no longer want to broadcast details, but I don't think you should get to park.

I say this with a wife that they actively advocate murdering (it's weird that everyone focuses just on the white supremacy and not the literal "we must kill the Jews" horror).

So as much as I hate them and all those people that wish that the USA (and England, etc) lost ww2 I still don't think you get to take over their domain.

<comment><USER11> That's an important observation. If people were free to read their website, it wouldn't be easy to forget how repugnant they are. People are starting to forget the past because it's being censored. And when we forget the past, we repeat it.

<comment><USER4> Stormfront helped organize and promote an event in Charlottesville, Virginia that saw a man they radicalized use his car as a weapon injuring 35 people and killing Heather Heyer. Let's play the video of that, juxtaposed with their editor's comments supporting it, on loop at their newly parked domain.

That accomplishes the goal of demonstrating how repugnant their ideas are without a company having to give them a platform to radicalize more people.

<comment><USER12> Fields, the driver, is Jewish I thought?

Where are you going to stop... will you turn off all the Berkeley Antifa domains also (whatever they are), since they directly radicalized Eric Clanton and his 7 assaults with a deadly weapon in 1 day, four of which he is currently charged with?

Or is 4 counts of assault with a deadly weapon not enough, and the bar should be set at say, 10?

Or is only murder, justification? What if Fields pleads to criminal negligence causing death, a lesser charge - will you give stormfront back their domain?

<comment><USER8> Is there any evidence that he is Jewish?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I've no interest in, or support for, Stormfront, its members or its message but I absolutely do not support this and other recent actions from members of our industry.

The constant censorship and de-platforming is one thing, the support from otherwise intelligent and rational people (such as those on HN) for these actions is another, and vastly more worrying, thing entirely.

It's unfortunate to see society rapidly devolving to a far more basic, ignorance driven tribal culture driven by identity politics.

Time to go down to the Winchester, have a pint and wait for this all to blow over from a safe distance.

<comment><USER14> [https://i.stack.imgur.com/5MaQm.png](https://i.stack.imgur.com/5MaQm.png)

Web 2.0 will become a stale walled garden with increasingly throttled traffic. OTOH, Web 3.0 will flourish.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Mixed feelings about this.

It sets a bad precedent IMO, but the positive aspect is Web 2.0 will soon be dead.

Bring on Web 3.0, a decentralized, censorship-resistant platform.

<comment><USER15> It would be tragic if, as the rest of society has ignored the issue for years, privacy tech gets its next real foothold with hate groups.

It would be far more tragic if the general public started associating privacy tech with hate groups, if using Tor became akin to wearing a pointed white hood.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> I'm not sure why this article has been flagged. I hope it's not an attempt to censor information about censorship.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I question the reasoning for changing the 'title' of this submission. The article title which is what it was altered to match, is vague. The actual meat of the story is the action that Network Solutions took. The heading now is unclear, who shut it down? Was it the host? The registrar?

How does changing the title from a detailed summary to something vague and politically charged benefit the HN community or the dissemination of worthwhile information.

The original title was, approximately, "Network Solutions disables and parks the stormfront.org domain".

</comment><comment><USER17> The problems in these people's lives, that caused them to turn to hate and aggression, will not be solved attempting to excommunicate them. In fact, I suspect it will exacerbate them.

<comment><USER18> I disagree. Having a place to go where likeminded people encourage you to do bad shit isn't a good thing. Stormfront was an echo-chamber of hate that normalised their members evil thoughts and actions.

<comment><USER19> If you think it's an echo chamber now then wait until they have their own video streaming sites, twitter clones, etc.

Then wait for people who are conservatives, alt-righters, or anyone else that's no longer PC enough to start sharing these spaces because they've been chased off mainstream sites. It's the best recruitment tool stormfront could hope for.

<comment><USER18> I'm not sure what your point is. Stormfront was their home base.

> Then wait for people who are conservatives, alt-righters, or anyone else > that's no longer PC enough to start sharing these spaces because they've > been chased off mainstream sites.

That's what just happened. They were chased off all mainstream sites and could only spew their hatred on SF. Then that got taken away from them.

<comment><USER20> Stormfront was somebody's home base but not everyone's or even significant fraction of so-called "alt-right". In terms you hopefully understand it is as same as saying slashdot is the home base of "computer geeks".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> If this stands as-is, it could set a precedent enabling registrars to hijack domains, which is frightening.

Netsol absolutely has the right to no longer provide them DNS and/or registration, but they cannot simply place the domain on hold indefinitely due to their own capriciousness.

How is it acceptable to let a corporation arbitrarily decide, after taking your money, that they no longer wish to provide you with that service AND block your ability to use what you paid for?

</comment><comment><USER22> Are there any existing registrars out there that have a policy of non- intervention on the basis of legal content?

</comment><comment><USER23> Using the moral high ground to justify intellectual censorship...

</comment><comment><USER24> I lost a domain I owned for 17 years because I was unemployed when renewal came up and missed the email.

My sympathies for storefront are not strong. Domains are no more concrete than a street address you don't own it. The sooner you realize this the better. If you have a better system, present it.

Registrars could give a fuck about you. You are a monetary item. If you don't produce they will find a way to make your domain produce.

</comment><comment><USER25> This is encouraging and a step in the right direction.

We've let the internet become the a terrifying hate indoctrination tool and this is just the tip of the iceberg. It took a person driving through a crowd of protesters to wake people up. Racist thoughts are common as a function of biology, in regular society we have checks against it growing to insidious levels. Online it's been open season for the hate groups to take advantage of modern marketing tactics to recruit and spread hate with alarming efficiency leading to violence.</comment>


Mundaneum - <AUTHOR> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mundaneum

<comment><AUTHOR> It's recent reopening was heavily featured in the media.

[https://twitter.com/Mundaneumasbl/status/453978841820962816](https://twitter.com/Mundaneumasbl/status/453978841820962816)

NYTime article on it: [http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/17/science/17mund.html?pagewa...](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/17/science/17mund.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0)

<comment><USER2> Well it must be the first time I see Mons featured here (I'm living in the area and moving there soon). The media coverage is probably due to Mons being the european capital of culture this year.

I went to the mundaneum 10~15 years ago (highschool visit), but unfortunatly I didn't pay much attention to it at the time, might be time to visit again.

<comment><AUTHOR> At that time Google wasn't the massive thing it is. Wikipedia was just born. Time to see things in a new light.

[http://rue89.nouvelobs.com/2015/06/26/1895-belgique- invente-...](http://rue89.nouvelobs.com/2015/06/26/1895-belgique-invente- internet-version-papier-259938) (french)

The pictures in this article are touching. It's naive and yet it's what the world is today. A new spin on the SF drive discoveries.

<comment><USER3> Is it worth traveling to Mons for?

It seems it's mostly a wall of little drawers that one is probably not allowed to rifle through. And some posters explaining things. Now we have the web it's easy to learn more about this stuff from home, perhaps?

<comment><USER2> Yes I doubt it's worth it only for the Mudaneum, but you can probably plan a interesting day if you combine with a few other activities: [http://www.mons2015.eu/](http://www.mons2015.eu/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Anyone else think of the Encyclopedia Galactica?

 _Less is known of "The Mule" than of any character of comparable signifigance to Galactic history. His real name is unknown; his early life mere conjecture. Even the period of his greatest renown is known to us chiefly through the eyes of his antagonists and, principally, through those of a young bride (Bayta Darell)..._</comment>


Show HN - My side project: Thingist - <AUTHOR> http://www.thingist.com

<comment><AUTHOR> Originally this was supposed to be a way for my sisters and I to make and then keep track of christmas lists for each other (there are 6 of us kids, so it's a lot of lists to make).

I thought it would be fun to be able to list more than just stuff I wanted for Christmas, and it just kindof grew from there.

<comment><USER2> It's a fun idea. One thing that I immediately wanted was, when you click a list, a short form of the list. I found I had to scroll a lot to see the list in its entirety.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hmm... That's a good point. I think listing _all_ of the information about all of the items when you're viewing one of the lists does take up too much space.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> You get an upvote for initiative. But, I don't see the use of it in its current state. Maybe you could turn it into a wishlist app or something and monetize it by affiliate sales (referrals)? Even better if you incorporate game mechanics. Good luck.

<comment><AUTHOR> >You get an upvote for initiative.

Thank you :)

>But, I don't see the use of it in its current state.

Eh, that's okay. It's not a hammer, it's a television; it's just fun, and it doesn't really _have_ a point. Just kindof a neat way for my friends and I to exchange little thoughts with each other.

>Maybe you could turn it into a wishlist app or something and monetize it by affiliate sales (referrals)?

Not sure if you saw this in other comment or not, but it _is_ a wishlist app, that is what it started out as. Here is my Christmas List: <http://www.thingist.com/t/list/1/>

And it _is_ using affiliate links via <http://www.viglink.com/>

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Love the idea, shouldn't require logging in (Maybe it doesnt? Wasn't clear from the UI), but it could use a designers touch.

Very early-twitter.

<comment><AUTHOR> Agree 100% on the "needs a designer's touch".

Hmm...not requiring a login. Do you mean how stack overflow does it? I think that would actually be pretty doable. Give somebody a session, let them post things as much as they want, then offer them the option to merge that session with a real username.

<comment><USER4> I suggest two things:

1\. Remove login crap. No one needs to password protect a twittery-wishlist, however cool.

2\. Instead have a field for name. Make it wordy, like: [name field with grayed out random name, like John] likes/hates [empty field with grayed out random thing, like football figurines]. Once someone hits submit, ask them if they'd like to make an account (possibly with a password). Then just have them use that name. Very similar to Instapaper.

I could probably work on something real quick to show you what I mean.

<comment><AUTHOR> Without the logins, how do you prevent people from posting things to each other's lists?

For instance: I have a list called "Good Bars in Phoenix" (<http://thingist.com/t/list/65/>), which is a list of bars that _I_ like...without the logins, what is to prevent, say, user "Aaron" from posting to that?

One of the use cases is my friend Dave. When he retired from his corporate job, he got a new blackberry. Over the several years that he had had that blackberry (likely that account on exchange, actually) he had been keeping a list of wines that he had tried and liked. When he gave up his old blackberry, he lost his list of wines. How would Dave keep it as "Dave's" list of wines without having logins?

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you're saying...sorry. I looked at instapaper to see if I could see an example of what you meant, but it seems to act just about the same. If I click on "Read Later", it prompts me to either login, or create an account.

>2\. Instead have a field for name. Make it wordy, like: [name field with grayed out random name, like John] likes/hates [empty field with grayed out random thing, like football figurines].

If you've registered, this is what you would see: <http://i.imgur.com/TwPwb.png> (The title is picked randomly from your group of lists). I think this is actually even simpler and more specific than what you're saying.

I really _really_ appreciate the criticism, honestly. I'm not trying to say "durr hurr, my way is best!", I hope what I just said doesn't come across as that.

>I could probably work on something real quick to show you what I mean.

If it's not any trouble, that would be hugely appreciated, thank you. :)

(Now I just wish I had a lot of users so that I could A/B test the two)

Again, thanks.

I think one thing I could improve right now (well, as soon as I get home, actually), is including both the registration form and the login form if you click "add" without being logged in...

<comment><USER4> It'd be easier to talk via email, so feel free to contact me at email@example.com

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> This is similar to one of my side projects called #want: <http://www.hashwant.com>

</comment><comment><USER6> What's it for?

<comment><AUTHOR> Eh, it's just kindof fun. I was playing trivia the other night, so I updated it to say "Ryan added 'trivia' to 'things I love'".

Or, some jerk stole my friends bike the other day, so I updated it to say "Ryan added 'people that steal aaron's bike' to 'things I hate'"

Kindof like status updates, but categorized.</comment></comment>


Web Applications that Scale Forever and Upgrade Seamlessly [video] - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtfbQJGQj0Q

<comment><USER2> I don't know that much about Haskell and I don't consider myself strong enough to make judgement calls on the theory side of systems architecture. That being said, here is what I was scratching my head about:

1\. ("form over content comment", sorry) Not necessarily a criticism of the speaker as this is mostly a typical room mic issue, but the volume differences made this rather hard to follow. But in the delivery, it often seemed like the filler language was very loud and more in-depth details were mumbled into the screen.

2\. I keep wondering "why?". It was just brushed over in the beginning, but I did not hear a compelling reason being presented on doing everything in Haskell. I do get that it is questionable to build this ever-growing API that does nothing but glue the client (javascript app) and server side to eachother. But isn't that what the internet is about? Having contained nodes that communicate?

And how is basically automatically generating the same sort of API... but now instead of a growing list of named end points (paths and maybe even GET variables), you have an RPC style protocol that _directly adresses the internal code via the tree it sends back as part of the request_ ... better?

Later (around the 48 minute mark) the very valid question is brought up - isn't binding UI updates to server interaction very, very expensive? Expensive in such a way that encouraging it as a basic part of the systems design is a bad idea. And the speaker kind of makes a joke of it and says we can just throw more servers at it. Well maybe, but that seems to be a rather substantial error in the entire system design. It might solve some other problem and the problem created may have a simple solution, but... I just don't get how all that sums up to being a great idea.

3\. Is this, in some sense, about avoiding to write an application in javascript? Because I have found a lot of people doing that - building the most incredibly colorful systems only to avoid to finally let go and just build a javascript application already.

In this particular instance, it seemed to be about trying - as much as you can - to do everything in Haskell. I have also seen people build frameworks on the idea of writing everything in XML files and interpreting them at runtime in PHP. It's possible and you can conjur up advantages, but at the end of the day, it's still not a good idea.

Nor is it compelling to other devs to join in, which brings it back to the LISP problem: an incredible potential for flexibility, but at the end of the day, it's just not very social. And thus, no matter how much nerds despise that conclusion, doomed to obscurity.

4\. How can this ever "upgrade seamlessly"? It seems like this pushes the syncing issues down to the code level. I'm not sure that is an advantage to having syncing issues on the data level.

</comment><comment><USER3> I watched it, it reminded me a lot of opa [1].

The problem with opa was it generated a gigantic load of code and when I tried running a basic app I made (to learn the language), it set off alarms on dotCloud's system (as if I were bitcoin mining or something) even though I was the only person using it for 5 minutes.

I foresee similar problems with any other system that attempts to make the client and server a system on continuations.

Secondly.. yeah, creating disjoint systems can be frustrating to maintain _together_ , but thinking a web browser is the only platform that will be supported can be really limiting in future developments.

[1]: [http://opalang.org](http://opalang.org)

</comment><comment><USER4> seems like this would work with react[0] since react manages its own virtual DOM and its components combine js and html into a single unit.

[0] [http://facebook.github.io/react/](http://facebook.github.io/react/)</comment>


How to find security holes - <AUTHOR> http://canonical.org/~kragen/security-holes.html <comment><USER2> From the article:

"Note: I haven't found any security holes, so take this with a pillar of salt."

<comment><USER3> For what it's worth, I have found a few since I wrote the article, and I still think the article is okay (although kind of outdated in some ways). I've fixed a few, too. Hopefully I've fixed more than I've created.

<comment><USER2> That's good to know, I would suggest for credibility, stating these instead of the sentence you have.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Wow, when I click this link I get

opera:fraud-warning:

 _The page you are trying to open has been reported as fraudulent. It will likely attempt to trick you into sharing personal or financial information. Opera Software strongly discourages visiting this page._

I don't know why, so I'm not continuing... I've only seen this message once before.

<comment><USER3> Wow, holy shit. Is there someone we can talk to at Opera about that? Would you be willing to get me a screenshot of the message and tell me what version of Opera you're running? I'd like to find out who reported that, and why. The page in question doesn't contain any scripts or interactive features of any kind. (I just looked at it on the server with _less_ to make sure nobody had, say, injected some script tags since the last time I looked. Nope.)

<comment><USER4> it's the same as what happened as reported here, same image as well [http://www.joycebabu.com/blog/google-being-reported-as- fraud...](http://www.joycebabu.com/blog/google-being-reported-as-fraud-site- by-opera.html)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> :-) Somewhat related: Bruce Schneier's "Self-Study Course in Block Cipher Cryptanalysis," <http://www.schneier.com/paper-self-study.html>

<comment><USER6> This paper is pretty cryptic and (I think) unhelpful, for a couple reasons, not least the fact that protocol breaks kill far more systems than block cipher analysis. But it is still an interesting challenge.

Worth mentioning here is that there may be 5000 full-time vulnerability researchers worldwide, and fewer than .1% of them will ever even do protocol crypto. Not that that those 5 people aren't awesome.

<comment><USER5> Correct. At the same time, even trying to break a protocol is an interesting activity and improves the fertility of mind. That would help in the areas like identifying security holes in a system.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> This is a fine way to get started looking for vulnerabilities, but a very bad yardstick for testing software by.</comment>


Linux kernel 3.10 is going to be the next longterm release - <AUTHOR> http://www.kroah.com/log/blog/2013/08/04/longterm-kernel-3-dot-10/

<comment><USER2> For those wondering whats in 3.10 - [http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_3.10](http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_3.10)

</comment><comment><USER3> I wonder if this means RHEL7 will use 3.10.

<comment><USER4> Greg's original post on the topic said " the enterprise distros are off doing their thing with their multi-year upgrade cycles, there's no real need from the distros for a new longterm kernel release." This, on the other hand, is aimed squarly at the CE "consumer electronics" area - see: [http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/consum...](http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/consumer- electronics/ltsi-overview).

To me the interesting thing is the juxtaposition of "Long Term Stable" with "expected to be stable in quality for the typical life-time of a product, i.e., 2-3 years."

<comment><USER5> I'm guessing he means phones and laptops rather than TVs, game consoles etc... at least I hope he does!</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: How do you lead teams? Let's exchange team management culture hacks - <AUTHOR>

I want to learn how to lead effective teams and encourage a positive culture. Are there any pearls of wisdom or utilities to help with this?
How do you motivate a group to take ownership, be creative and produce their best work?
Unfortunately not everybody is awesome and I've not been lucky enough to choose the people I have to work with -- in fact I've taken the worst employees to see whether I can turn them around. When dealing with less motivated or incompetent developers, how do you treat the organisation problem created by scaling the micro-management that appears to be required to get them to produce useful work? Is there a laissez-faire way of doing this... Can I empower them to be more conscientious? If in the worst cases I have no choice but to try to get them fired how is this done in the least negative way?
HN, please give me your team management culture hacks! :) <comment><USER2> Team communication - Make sure there is a way for all developers to brainstorm easily, we did this by setting up an IRC channel. But it needs to be used obviously, which is the hard part.

Give credit - If any one even mentions an idea in passing, etc and it is later discussed, that mention should be attributed. 'A few weeks ago Mike suggested RabbitMQ, we did some research and we've decided this is the best solution'. Of course for obvious good work praise should be given.

Celebrate team effort - There is a problem in production, your developers are working hard to pinpoint. Once the dust settles and you are sending out your final status email, be sure to praise the team effort, include names (be sure to include anyone that even had the slightest impact, seeing their names together reinforces the team)

Other obvious ones - sufficient funds for tools, hardware, training, books etc. code reviews, personal growth plans, frequent employee performance reviews (6mo).

motivation is tough, sometimes people need a little peer pressure. Give an unmotivated developer a visible high priority, small(!!), project. Something you know is a homerun. Email the stake holders and CC the developer explaining the developer is on it and it's their #1 priority. Give them plenty of time, but just knowing that people are depending on their work helps some people with motivation.

</comment><comment><USER3> First of all you should know what they are doing, each day should begin with them answering 3 questions, in SCRUM meeting or in writing:

1\. What you did yesterday?

2\. What you'll do today?

3\. Are there any impediments in your way?

<comment><AUTHOR> You wrote less than the others, but these three questions codified were of immediate use when I came in this morning. Thanks! :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I was a tech lead for many years, but I also have a background in psychology and the self-actualization movement. In my first and only role as a project manager I took over a team that had had it's spirit crushed. I took almost a month of working with them through their emotional problems before they were battle ready again. My biggest surprise and a significant disappointment was the amount of psychological counseling that it took to keep my workforce running with their heads on straight.

Loyalty is everything. The first team that I took over was a team that I was promoted from within. The team I was working on was stalled because bluntly they were not very good candidates for the job they were doing. I was the one person making progress and I was making significant progress at that. This was the first software development contract my company has obtained, everything rode on it and the president/owner of the company worked in the programming pit with us, which is how he knew I was making progress. So I ended up managing a group of people who were my close friends and I desperately wanted things to work so that we could all keep our jobs. I extended major loyalty to my team members and was amazed at the depth of loyalty and even fanaticism they returned to me.

Projects are like jigsaw puzzles, they need the right technology and people to fit together to make a greater whole. During the interview process and the continuing during the job I was always working to have a greater understanding of what my employee's goals were and what their path to self-actualization was. When I inherited people who has no interest in self-actualization, in being greater than they were I let go. If you can understand how to plug people into your project in a way as to provide them with a path to their self-actualization your team will follow you into hell.

Be heroic. Through away your job description because it doesn't mean crap. If you are a manager, particularly a technical manager, you personally own the entire project. Your employees are there to help you out. Do what ever you need to make things work within the bounds of ethics. If the team needs you to personally wash their cars in order to maximize the progress of your project then you get off your ass and you wash their cars.

Be a friend and ally to everyone. Most projects have not only technical bottlenecks but political bottlenecks. Even if you are the god of software development, it is not enough. Often being a god of social engineering will get you much further. Be Santa Claus and freely shower the people and organizations you interface with with your technical gifts and screw the fact that this is never a part of anyone's job description. Great managers only care about overcoming the barriers that are in their way. The fact that those barrier are bullshit is irrelevant, the fact that the domain of those barrier are not with your job description is irrelevant. When every single person inside your team and interfacing with your team sees you as a powerful ally and a friend then you can make miracles happen.</comment>