Ask HN: What mistakes did you make when starting as a consultant/freelancer? - <AUTHOR> What was the specific mistake, what did you learn from it, and how did you change the way you do business as a result?
For example, I was told by someone who started a project without taking an advance, only for the client to decide not to pay. So he now refuses to take on a project without at least 30% advance.
What lessons did you learn the hard way?
I'm setting up my own consulting practice: kartick.org and would like to learn from other people's mistakes rather than repeating them myself. <comment><USER6> Longer write-up here: [https://www.gkogan.co/blog/how-i-learned-to-get- consulting-l...](https://www.gkogan.co/blog/how-i-learned-to-get-consulting- leads/)

Some things I learned through mistakes:

\- Charge more.

\- Travel like a professional and bill the client. For my first business trip I used airline points, stayed at an Airbnb on my own dime, and even refused the client's offer to reimburse me. Stupid. (Full story here: [https://www.gkogan.co/blog/stupid/](https://www.gkogan.co/blog/stupid/))

\- If I'm not enjoying the work, request a change or move on. Don't just "tolerate" it and chug along. One of the greatest benefits of consulting is the freedom to chose whom you work with... Take advantage of it.

\- Remember who the client is, and don't get too involved with their subordinates.

\- If you don't feel "Hell yes!" about taking on a project or prospect, just skip it. It's not going to get more interesting over time.

\- Find a great accountant. Fire bad accountants fast (and lawyers, and other service providers).

\- Tell the client the hard truth.

\- Impostor syndrome is normal. Get over it.

\- Stop trying to go above-and-beyond all the time. Do what you were brought in to do, and do it exceptionally well. If other opportunities come up, suggest them as follow-on projects instead of just doing extra stuff for free.

\- If you're clashing with an exec at the company, tell the client, instead of just backing away from the project.

\- There are hundreds/thousands (depending on specialty) of potential clients out there, you just have to find them. So don't worry if a deal falls through, don't envy other consultants, and don't take on bad projects out of desperation.

<comment><USER7> How do I get over the mental barrier of charging more than $100 per hour?

\- I'm a junior developer and I mostly freelance for larger companies.

\- I feel like $100/hour is the industry standard and if I charge 150-300 I need to do work that requires managerial work.

\- 300+ comes from charging a percentage of revenue increase or creating such a narrative, which often requires additional business and strategic consulting.

\- On the flip side, I enjoy coding and want to avoid additional managerial and business consulting as much as possible.

<comment><USER8> Do not think in hours. You are not a worker in a factory. Consider the value you deliver. When you deliver twice the value in the same time you did a year ago charge twice as much.

<comment><USER9> It does depend. When I was a consultant, we tried to charge based on value (by engagement). OTOH, clients often still thought in terms of hours. If we were on-site for one engagement that was only going to take half a day, they'd often try to hook us up with some other group as well given we were there and had the time. (Typically we'd go along as these were long-time clients.)

And some areas like law are very hourly-based. The one time I did some legal work it was strictly based on time. (At a very good hourly rate including travel time.)

<comment><USER8> Yeah, true, that may happen. Ideally you get a combined payment by hours with a bonus for performance. That is often a bit complex or tricky though.

You mitigate the risk of getting paid not enough in case the hours spiral out of control while still getting paid a lot when you outperform expectations.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Setting my rates too low.

Here's what I figured out those many years ago. Clients who are cheap are also really into wasting your time and trying to micromanage the project. Clients who will pay a lot more also give you latitude to do your job (after all they're paying you to be the expert).

Keep jacking up your rates with each new client until you hit a ceiling. Whatever you're charging now, without even knowing what it is, I'm certain it's too low.

When I got started I billed $35/he. When I ended 5-6 years later I billed $300/her. Now in what very limited ad-hoc consulting I do, I bill significantly more than that.

<comment><USER11> Is it better to charge per project or per hour?

<comment><USER12> Per project is dangerous. Consulting clients will change their minds frequently and you'll want to give them the latitude to do so, which means you simply can't estimate the time needed to complete a project without adding X00% on top to compensate. No one wants to have the "this is out of scope, I'm happy to do it but we need to talk about an amendment..." conversation.

Per hour is not adequate for this type of work; you're delivering a product or service that will increase your client's bottom line, you're not a seat-filler who punches a clock. I charge in the smallest increment of time that I believe I can provide a meaningful impact or deliver a complete solution. When asked for a quote I translate my billing into weeks, as in $X000 per week. Accounting for admin tasks and paperwork, back and forth emails and phone calls, plus showing off the work completed and waiting for approval/notes, a week often seems like not enough time (I can't count the number of times a client asking for a simple font change took literally a week to order and get approval on). There are very rare instances where I know I can accomplish a task in days instead of weeks and if the client asks, I will bill in days instead.

"My rate is $X000 per week and my initial estimate is that this will take XX weeks to complete. I require an up-front retainer of X weeks to get started and I bill every two weeks after. Who should I address the initial invoice to?"

I would typically never reveal this tip, but here it goes: "I bill weekly and my normal rate is $X000. For you I would be happy to reduce that to $X000-20%." The client is told up front that they are getting a discount without having to ask for it and the Discount line item on the invoice(s) very much help in getting that invoice paid faster. The secret is that the rate quoted is always 20% higher than what my ideal number is. I make it rain discounts on everyone.

No one wants to have the rate conversation but I've noticed that clients who don't shy away from that talk or flinch at your rate will not be a problem. Clients who complain that you cost too much will be a problem. Politely suggest you are not a good fit for their project and end the call, you're better off. If you get to the point that your non-flinching clients say yes a little too fast to your rate, increase it. You want a little resistance, but not much. Saying yes too fast means you need to charge more.

And lastly, this is not about what work "costs" or "market rates", this is about what your completed solution is worth to your client and how much it will increase their bottom line. You're playing a different game so stop charging like you're mowing lawns or digging ditches. Charge more.

<comment><USER6> Strongly agree with this, over hourly or project-based. I do monthly instead of weekly, but idea is the same.

One thing I disagree with is the automatic-discount thing. Firstly, I think it's cheesy. Makes me think of street vendors saying "...But just for YOU, I have a SPECIAL price!" Secondly, I think it cheapens the perceived value. As in, "Why is Joe throwing around 20% discounts? Is he desperate? Is he not confident in his abilities?" Etc.

<comment><USER13> "My ordinary rate is X000 per week, HOWEVER I'd love to work with you/this project/this stack/this industry so how does a 20% discount sound?"

<comment><USER14> I think I get what he was saying. I would say the discounted number instead of saying anything about percentages. Round up whatever that number is to nearest hundred. Saying $x748.35 is your weekly rate does sound kind of sad versus $x800. As an example. Still sounds professional.

<comment><USER15> Or $750, for that matter. (Mind you, if they take $800, good for you!)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> super-serial I tried freelance and realized I hate it more than any other type of programming work.

I can tolerate being an employee where I do what I'm told. After a month I get a feel for the environment so it becomes low stress and then I can keep my head down programming. Or I can tolerate selling software or having a SaaS. If I'm CEO I decide the direction of the product and then just have to handle customer support.

But the BS and stress of dealing with clients, contracts, undefined specs and getting paid... I have no f-ing idea how people tolerate it. So good luck with that. It took me way too long to figure out that I absolutely hate working as a contractor.

<comment><USER16> You should only have to do that in the beginning and strive to earn more so that you can hire an accountant or a firm to keep the booking and calculate your taxes for you. Invoicing is a matter of minutes and some apps even do it for free. Once you've set up your templates for each type of contract and document, you should be good to go. The only true problem in freelancing is generating new (good) leads. That's it. Admin stuff is a piece of cake with today's technology.

<comment><USER17> > Admin stuff is a piece of cake with today's technology

Do you mean something like deploying every client with the same stack which is easy to admin? I noticed I started this freelancing thing not giving a second thought about how I would mantain systems running for my clients. I should at least include some kind of monthly fee... (otherwise documentation so they can admin it..)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Didn't charge enough.

Didn't market. Didn't network.

Didn't constantly hustle for clients.

Didn't outsource scut work.

Didn't down tools when clients were slow to pay.

Didn't develop/maintain a backlog of client work.

Didn't reject fixed price contracts.

Didn't renegotiate when projects changed beyond contracted scope.

Didn't filter free consults against probability they'd turn into a contract.

Didn't have my heart in it (and have since stopped).

<comment><USER19> What did your hustling for clients consist of? Like I get the pounding the network pavement, everyone recommends that, but beyond that I never really get what it is that people do. Like do you just cold call people or do you entirely go through your network? What specific situations do you place yourself in where you can hustle up work?

<comment><USER20> Maybe a couple examples would explain what I think people mean. You're getting dinner with a friend, and they mention their new friend just started a company and is looking for some people who do X. You don't really do X, you do Y, but a lot of people who do X also need Y.

On the 0 to 10 scale:

0: "I don't really do X, thanks for thinking of me."

3: "Hey, I don't really do X, but he may need Y. Let him/her know if they need Y they can call me."

5: "Oh, that's neat. Why don't you introduce us, I'd love to meet them. "

8: "Oh, cool, what's their name/email? Can I mention your name and reach out? "

10: "Cool, let's invite them to grab a drink with us after dinner. What neighborhood do they live in so we can go somewhere convenient?"

<comment><USER21> Important to note that implicit in this example is that you're meeting with friends/acquaintances who are in positions to refer you to this kind of work on a regular basis. That's the other side of networking - if you're not a naturally outgoing person it means putting in the effort to socialize with the right kind of people regularly and make sure they know what kind of work you do / skills you have.

<comment><USER22> If people don't like doing it,then they need to make sure the entire internet knows about them: bligs,articles, etc. This is one of the ways for introverts to deal with it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Hire a good tax person immediately. Maybe hire 2.

A significant amount of your income earned is gained through having someone walk you through handling taxes & health insurance. I'm not suggesting cheating on taxes. There are common practices such as knowing how to best incorporate your business for your situation. How to best pay yourself (dividends vs income) & how to handle your personal & company expenses. This can easily make a difference of between 20-30% of your income.

By a good person, I mean someone willing to sit with you for over an hour & understand you family situation, what expenses you have & what expenses you plan to have as a business. Someone who will also sit down with you once or twice a year & re-discuss as well.

<comment><USER24> What country are you basing this advice on? I think it's good advice, but if your income can increase by 20-30% as a result of optimising your business structure for tax purposes, that's a dysfunctional tax system. I'd like to believe that in some countries this advice is not necessary.

<comment><USER23> Apologies. I should have clarified. United States of America.

I don't believe it's dysfunctional for this particular reason. There are for sure trade-offs between simplification & trying to optimize for the best outcome. A simpler tax code would be nice but then people on all sides of the political aisle would start saying we should really give X a break for Y reasons and that's how it seems to get complicated.

There is literally a 20% tax break for most small businesses this year in the US.

Healthcare can be cut in half if you are below certain requirements but make a $1 more & you pay the whole bill. This one I agree seems silly. Though it's maybe to simplified & should be more complex with a sliding scale.

A popular move for freelancers is to start an S-Corp LLC where you pay yourself a fair wage compared to others in the industry. This money gets taxed hard. Harder personally for you than if you worked for someone else. You can pay yourself dividends though with any extra money your earn as long as it's less than your wage income. This money gets taxed much less.

How you invest your money is also taxed all sorts of different ways.

Note - I'm not a tax professional & the above is just my understanding. Someone who is a professional or has more experience would give better advice hence my original post.

<comment><USER25> It's not a crime if they don't catch you. But ensure that your taxation system does not have rules about transfer pricing to expressly prevent tax avoidance.

The cheaper (with AI and automation) it gets for IRS to chase for transfer pricing violations, the more likely it is to get a fine.

<comment><USER15>
       It's not a crime if they don't catch you.

With that mentality, you're as good as caught, anywho.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> My biggest mistake working as a freelance consultant and truth be told still one of my biggest weaknesses is under estimating the the amount of work a job will require. I now tell myself any time I plan a project, whether for myself or someone else to double my estimate of the work required.

Many times it wouldn't even be my underestimating but rather the clients changing their plans halfway through and I would end up losing out rather than risking having them give me a bad review.

It is always better to estimate high then charge less than the other way around.

If you don't get a job because your too expensive don't be too upset, don't sell yourself short. IMHO it's better to not get the job than to work your fingers to the bone, miss out on other jobs and get burnt out only to go broke in the end.

<comment><USER27> This is a great point. I've slowly started to believe in the planning fallacy [1] and that humans just aren't that good at estimating the time that it takes to do a given task.

The freakonomics podcast had a good episode on the topic this year [2]. There's an amusing quote by Daniel Kahneman in the episode that brings me some comfort: "If you realistically present to people what can be achieved in solving a problem, they will find that completely uninteresting. You can't get anywhere without some degree of over-promising."

[1]: [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planning_fallacy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planning_fallacy)

[2]: [http://freakonomics.com/podcast/project-management- rebroadca...](http://freakonomics.com/podcast/project-management-rebroadcast/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> I thought "I'm a great programmer so I'll be a great programmer-consultant". In fact they are two separate sets of skills, and if you don't have the soft skills around consultancy like networking for clients, dealing with payments, and smoothing things over when they occasionally go wrong, you'll need to acquire those skills.

Also get a good accountant. There are lots of terrible accountants. Literally I had one who forgot to file my tax return - _you had one job!_ \- and I ended up paying a huge fine for his incompetence then trying to sue him to get it back.

</comment><comment><USER29> Everyone's talked about charging more but let me add a vote specifically for dealing with credit risk - it's real.

I worked with a lovely but cash-strapped startup who really needed my help, and I made absolutely certain to collect payment up front as a condition to working with them. I billed on the 1st of the month for the upcoming month and it took away all stress around (their) cash flow.

It ended up being a really fun engagement that lasted 6 months, and when they told me they were really tight on cash and had to stop the engagement in 2 weeks, it was zero stress on my part (because they'd already paid for those two weeks).

Chasing a client for money is one of the worst aspects of consulting and I've just decided not to let it happen again. I've been on both sides — the consultant trying to get paid, and (unfortunately) the client who didn't have enough cash, and it's agony for everyone involved.

</comment><comment><USER30> Just a few hours ago I saw this post on Product Hunt: "Freelancember is a collection of 31 gifts for freelancers, one for each day. Templates, checklists, guides how to get better clients, raise your rates, etc." Might be helpful! [https://www.producthunt.com/posts/freelancember](https://www.producthunt.com/posts/freelancember)

Some other folks mentioned taxes -- I highly suggest reading the book Profit First and implementing the system. I'm not a freelancer myself, but I'm solo & self-employed, and it's such a relief to have a pre-destined pile of cash to be sent off to the appropriate authorities each quarter.

<comment><USER31> Freelancember has listed most of the mistakes indeed, along with the solutions on how to solve or avoid them.

Example: [https://freelancember.com/excuses-for-not-raising-your- rates...](https://freelancember.com/excuses-for-not-raising-your-rates/) \- how to deal with raising the rates and not ending up stuck at the bottom level.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> Staying too deep in tech.

As a consultant your number one thing is making money. Find high paying clients, establish good relationships, do good work but don't get too far in the weeds of tech stuff. From everything I've read and experienced, deep technical work doesn't pay well or market well. Dumb stuff like setting up Magento is where the big money comes. People who are mainly technical seem to do better at companies. There are of course exceptions.

My business did not succeed. I still enjoyed the three years I spent on it. I got to work with lots of different things that I would never have had much chance to do otherwise, and get paid for it. I ended up going back into industry though once my primary client had to pull back my hours, and so far am happy enough with that decision too.

<comment><USER33> I am sure Magento pays well but I don't think it has to do with being more simple.

Ex: wordpress developer vs react / frontend dev, who makes more? React / frontend.

This being said, for really high paying consulting gigs, i think that its definetely not in tech but in sales / marketing/ strategy.

<comment><USER34> Stephanie Hurlburt talked on the IH podcast about doing 7-figure contracting deals for C++ graphics work (math, C++, GPU optimization and various technical work).

[https://www.indiehackers.com/podcast/044-stephanie- hurlburt-...](https://www.indiehackers.com/podcast/044-stephanie-hurlburt-of- binomial)

<comment><USER32> Like I said, there are exceptions. To do this you have to be a well known expert in a highly valuable skill. I'm sure Troy Hunt does fairly well in security consulting on Azure for instance. Being an expert in something challenging but that doesn't make the client money (say Haskell, or whatever the distributed DB flavor of the month is) doesn't pay beans. Nor does knowing 50 languages or web frameworks: the client only cares that you know _one_. Determine up front what you want to specialize in, if you go this path.

<comment><USER34> > _Nor does knowing 50 languages or web frameworks: the client only cares that > you know one_

I 100% agree with this. Specialization is worth it. Nobody cares if you're fairly close to workplace competence in ten things, but people will beat a path to you door (or inbox) if you're world class at one.

I'd also add that when you add to your skill stack, make sure it's complimentary skills you can use with your existing strength, not alternative skills that accomplish the same thing.

[https://youtu.be/bIpgUmn5yK8](https://youtu.be/bIpgUmn5yK8)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> Not when I started, but after I'd been contracting for five years I ended up in a contract where the client ran out of money so couldn't pay me. I figured that because I was hired through a recruitment agency I was safe, but apparently not.

For those who aren't aware 'contracting' in Europe refers to what is effectively a short term employee who charges X/day. Clients usually pay net 30 - 60 and often you work through a recruitment agency. The agency is supposed to vet the employer and provide a good source of candidates, but for the fees they charge clients (10-30%) IMO they don't provide anything near that value.

This led to mistake after mistake on my part and now the client owes me £40k. I ended up working with a soliticor, and we have now agreed on terms for then to repay me, but I ended up with a pretty bad deal (it's effectively an interest free loan to them).

I've learnt quite a lot of lessons though:

\- Under no circumstances work for free, if a client asks you to, it simply means they do not value your time. There's plenty of businesses who are willing to pay you so it's not worth the hassle. The only exception I'd say is if you are getting founder level equity (10s of %) in a startup you believe in.

\- I had a bad feeling about this contract from my first week when I got in the office, guess I should have listened to my gut feeling :-)

\- If a client is putting a lot of stress or pressure on you, fire them. There's plenty of good clients out there.

\- Do not ever work for free [https://youtu.be/jVkLVRt6c1U](https://youtu.be/jVkLVRt6c1U)

<comment><USER36> > Clients usually pay net 30 - <USER2>

What do you mean by this?

<comment><USER37> You'll also see terms like "2/10 net 30", which means if the client pays in 10 days, they get a 2% discount. Otherwise payment in full is expected by day 30. Your accountant would have a "Sales Discount" account to record it as an expense if they get you the check early.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> Over a decade, I went from doing grunt work freelancing — data entry, HTML conversion, etc — to charging about $500 an hour as a true consultant.

Freelancers do what they're told. Consultants advise the client on what _they_ should do.

When you start out, it's natural to think you're Doing A Thing (whatever skill you have & want to charge for) rather than Running A Business. I started out thinking "I'm here to make web pages and get paid for it!" and that made it very easy for people to take advantage of me. I would do exactly what the client asked for and then they would complain about it.

By the end of my consulting career, VPs would come to me with their ideas and I'd feel free to say "I'd love to work with you, but that idea won't fly. Here's what you SHOULD do." And they would go with it!

I realized that I could have positioned myself as the expert much earlier on in my career, and saved myself a lot of stress of trying to do every little thing the client asked, no matter how foolish.

The business mindset also means service agreements with initial deposits, work schedule with intermediate payments, kill fees and more.

I now run a product biz — the star being a time tracking SaaS for freelancers [http://nokotime.com](http://nokotime.com)

Turning my catch-as-catch-can freelance business into a real consultancy is what made me able to charge more, work fewer hours, and have less stressful projects (bc I was the actual boss rather than a tool to be used by the client) and build the SaaS on the side.

Someone else mentioned Freelancember. Guess who made it? Me! Based on all my mistakes and years coaching others to level up like I did. [http://freelancember.com](http://freelancember.com)

I highly recommend the book The Secrets of Consulting, which is like "the inner game" rather than explicit stuff like contracts, taxes, etc which are covered elsewhere.

</comment><comment><USER39> Don't charge per project - charge for your time. The only exception I'd make on this rule is sweat equity and that's because I'm well aware of the gamble I am making with my time. Still charge a token amount of actual $$ for sweat equity unless you are a co-founder.

Do not overengineer anything.

Charge for your time - 3.6x what you are currently charging ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ no idea what that is. Don't work for clients that blink at that price at all.

Take the high road in every possible situation and never burn a bridge - <USER3> life blood will be repeat business and referrals. Your community and network are tighter than you realize.

At least 20% of your time will be networking, sales, and meetings - <USER4> your estimates an extra 30% with that in mind plus whatever other buffers you already told yourself you'd do.

Be over enthusiastic, be your own hype person and the hype person of the project you are working on, still under promise and over deliver though.

<comment><USER36> > Charge for your time - 3.6x what you are currently charging

Don't you think 3.14 would be more scientific?

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> Many (still do some) -

\- Not booking myself in advance. \- Taking rush jobs. \- Not limit myself to a set no. of hours \- Absolutely no systems in place other than a Calendly meeting link that I set up very recently. \- Not able to estimate the time I need to complete a task. \- Not producing enough content so that I could get pre-sold, inbound leads.

e.g. I'm a direct response email copywriter and I've been told by many gurus & coaches to write emails on a daily basis and publish on the web. Yet, I've been slacking off.

Result? I've to reach out to prospects and try to sell them on myself. Not an easy thing to do.

</comment><comment><USER32> Got too attached to my project.

Your project isn't yours, it's your client's. I turned down better paying work because I had become so invested in the code. I was afraid to ask for a raise for the same reason. Finally my client stopped needing more features and that was that.

Your code is just a means to an end. Don't get attached to it or to a client. You are running a business. Keep good relationships, but be ready and able to cut ties.

</comment><comment><USER41> Embarrassing but honest:

Pay your taxes on time (quarterly), assuming you are US based and on a 1099. Put that money away as soon as possible with ea. payment - just like an employer were withholding it.

I managed my finances poorly, and it gets increasingly difficult to catch up. All good now but was the most expensive lesson I learned.

Edit: seeing other replies here, I would meet with a tax/financial person from the start.

<comment><USER42> How do you know how much money to put away until you're at then end of the tax period and know the total tax amount? Do you just estimate based on what you expect to earn?

<comment><USER43> > Do you just estimate based on what you expect to earn?

I echo the advice to get a good accountant, but "estimating" is what I've been doing for the past 5 years. I had an unexpectedly good year a few years ago and wound up underpaying on my quarterly taxes. The IRS and the State of NY both charged me a small fine and I just sucked it up and paid it. It's quite a racket they've got going on considering income tax was supposed to be a temporary measure to get us through WWI.

<comment><USER42> Interesting, do you have a link to more reading on this? The Wikipedia page on the 16th amendment doesn't seem to mention WWI as the reason.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> Never work for free.

I had a guy contact me and con me into developing a feature for him and then disappear.

The other way to put this is, get paid upfront. Estimate your price, triple it, then demand 1/3 upfront before you start to code. That way if the client flakes out on the rest you're at least covered. (Heh... I wrote this from just the headline, before reading the blurb. Your friend who "refuses to take on a project without at least 30% advance" is spot on.)

Which brings me to the next gem: Charge more. The A-#1 mistake most people in every business make is to charge too little. (Flip it over: don't compete on price. Not as a freelancer/consultant.)

What else? Don't work for liars or incompetents.

Also, just because a client has money and is willing to give it to you doesn't mean that you should take it.

Sometimes the right thing to do is sit Gil down and tell him: your project is the Winchester Mystery House and I have better things to do with my time.

(Ah, Gil... what a client. He would come in to discuss the project, and we'd say, "Well, there's A, B, or C?" and he would say, "What about D? And E? Could it also F and G?" and the PM would smile and say, "Sure Gil! We can do all that!". It was the only project I ever worked on that had 100% code coverage. No, really, 100%. Every line. Every single line. Because Gil wanted it. :-)

So yeah, charge more, and brook no bullshit. It helps if you're good at what you do, or at least dedicated.

</comment><comment><USER45> The common rule around here is to charge more. This is also promoted a lot by patio11 on HN and on Twitter.

I would counter this with the fact that sometimes it could backfire. Just like in a job negotiation, a contract negotiation might end up with no contract at all.

So while it's nice to hear about this, applying it in practice generally works for new customers while the original/current customers are paying your bills at the normal rate. Trying this with your current customers might lead to no customers.

There are a lot of glass ceilings out there and mental blocks on both sides of the negotiating table. Even a deal that works for everybody might not happen because people are not entirely rational when talking about money.

<comment><USER43> "Charge more" is rhetoric[0]. If you look closely at those posts where patio11 advocates charging more, his reasoning for doing so is that most _highly skilled_ developers undercharge for their services. His advice simply doesn't apply outside of that context.

[0]: If you don't know the difference between Rhetoric and Dialectic, I urge you to read Rhetoric by Aristotle. It will help explain some of the problems you may or may not have when talking with non-technical people.

<comment><USER45> > his reasoning for doing so is that most highly skilled developers > undercharge for their services. His advice simply doesn't apply outside of > that context.

Being highly skilled is a personal auto-evaluation. One might (perhaps wrongly) believe this and still not manage to raise rates.

> I urge you to read Rhetoric by Aristotle. It will help explain some of the > problems you may or may not have when talking with non-technical people.

This is an interesting piece of advice. You think this would be a common trait among technical people?

I never did read Rhetoric, perhaps I'll find time over the holidays.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> Have a rate card that encourages clients to pay on shorter net terms, and to pay on time.

Structure it as a discount instead of a penalty, but have the fully discounted rate be the figure you wanted in the first place.

Helps in initial negotiations if they want long net terms. You can just say, "sure...here's the rate for NET 45".

And, helps with slow payers.

So, in month 2, if they have paid on time for month 1, present an invoice with the discount applied. If they are late, then don't apply it.

</comment><comment><USER47> Don't be afraid to say no if a client looks shitty.

Don't say no to a good client. Quote them an atrociously high price instead. What's the worst that can happen? They pay it.

</comment><comment><USER48> 1\. Not making it clear to the client up front that I'm charging for the week whether they have enrolled me in their IT systems or not!

2\. Not making it clear to the client up front that if they wanted me to do the work the following week I've also have to charge them extra for having to reshuffle my schedule.

With big companies this stuff is very hard to fix after the fact, it has to be part of the initial negotiation.

</comment><comment><USER49> Here're mistakes I _didn 't make_:

\- Insisted on payment once contract is done and ignore "could you also do that and then i'll pay you for everything together.

\- Did not race to the bottom with developers from poor countries.

\- Did not take startup stock/shares/options to sacrifise salary.

\- Realized that 5% of customers are responsible for 95% of revenues and prioritize attention to their requirements accordingly.

</comment><comment><USER50> Not billing often enough. Send a bill every 2 weeks. If they miss one, stop working. No negotiations.

<comment><USER51> I think this is very bad advice. I had great clients who overlooked a payment. Just let them know and everything was fine.

It also depends on what country you live in. Where I live it is 60 days by rule unless it is in a contract signed by both parties.

<comment><USER52> My wife is an accountant, and here's a protip on how to make sure that a client never "overlooks" a payment: put a penalty clause in your contract that says the client is to pay 1.5% of the balance every month after the payment is due, and the client is responsible for any recovery fees. Your invoice will always be paid on time. If the client does not agree to this, walk away. It's a laughable amount of money, but their accounting department will front-load any "penalty" contracts nevertheless.

All this "overlooking" is bullshit anyway. Nobody would "overlook" you not doing any work for a couple of weeks. So why should it be any different when it comes to payment?

<comment><USER53> Penalty clauses are not always enforceable. Early payment discounts are...

I mentioned it in my post, but the number one reason a reasonably sized company doesn't pay is that your invoice is not on their ledger. Call their accounts payable dept up after a few days, check they have the invoice, ask them when it will be paid. Don't be shy, this is what they expect!

<comment><USER52> Doesn't matter - they work anyway. Nobody in accounts payable is going to get into the details of whether things are enforceable or not. They'll just pay your invoice instead.

<comment><USER54> This is not a universal truth. Discount incentives work much better.

The clients who pay late will pay their invoices without the late fees anyway, in my experience. Now you're tracking down payment for your work and the fees.

<comment><USER52> >> This is not a universal truth.

Nothing is.

>> Discount incentives work much better.

This is not a universal truth. See what I did there?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER55> The problem with consulting as a developer is that you can't charge as much as it costs to fix shit properly. Endless fucking story. Developers are mostly crap which treat their work as any other working man.

You are there on the floor with these men, lowest in the hierachy, selling your time which you can't scale.

You can't set a price on your time, it's something you will never get back, but if you absolutly must sell it, sell it expensively and to people you values your time.

Fuck doing work with lousy people and companies. It's not worth it.

Time doesn't scale

<comment><USER43> > You are there on the floor with these men, lowest in the hierachy, selling > your time which you can't scale.

What's the alternative? Being an employee is the same thing, but with better benefits and worse pay.

</comment></comment><comment><USER56> Charge more. If you can't find clients, the answer is to get a job and build your experience/network, not to lower your rates.

</comment><comment><USER42> Related question (especially to those saying you should've charged more): how do you _start_ consulting in software engineering? Like where do you advertise and expose your talent to potential clients who would pay at a rate that you think is worth it?

<comment><USER57> In my case, I start by telling my friends and people I was working with that I'm now available for consulting gigs. Eventually, one person (who know my works) recommended me to their friends. I did some projects for them, and they like my works so they recommend me to their friends, and so on.

My wife also like to talk about what I do to her clients (she was a consultant working on a big consulting company, different field), leading to more projects.

</comment></comment><comment><USER58> 1) Not charging enough. This is harder than it sounds. First time I significantly increased my price was when I didn't want any extra work, so I asked for double my rate. After closing that deal I started aiming higher.

2) Not creating content sooner. There hasn't been one thing that influenced my career as much as my blog - If there would be one thing I would do different it would be this: I would have started blogging earlier.

</comment><comment><USER59> Trying to find work through gig sites.

I've spoken to multiple freelancers to learn that the best way to actually find good clients that pay well is through word of mouth. There is inherent trust in the relationship when someone comes in as a referrals vs when they don't.

And that trust really changes the game in terms of how much more comfortable they are in terms of how they engage with you. They'll trust you with the project because they trust the referring source.

The alternative is spending a significant amount of time showing your skillsets to clients that don't know about you. Which means you may have to warm them over a few projects before they actually fully trust you. While starting off job sites maybe the only way to build a portfolio but we believe that everybody inherently has a professional network of good relationships they can tap onto, like old colleagues or friends from college that work in a similar industry.

[1] Here's a post I wrote about the ways different ways experienced freelancers find clients and most of them said that their best work came through word of mouth [https://freelancefish.com/things-we-learnt-about- finding-cli...](https://freelancefish.com/things-we-learnt-about-finding- clients-by-speaking-to-10-freelance-consultants/)

[2] If you want to bootstrap your referral network, a friend and I are working on a tool that helps freelancers find work through word of mouth by reminding you to stay in touch with people and helping them in meaningful ways. It also encourages you to clearly articulate what you do and how the same people can help you in return. We just launched the beta a couple of weeks back and are slowly adding people onto the platform [https://clienttree.io](https://clienttree.io)

<comment><USER60> Interesting. Will like to give this a whirl. Just curious - a) if there is an option to import my existing network/contacts from LinkedIn or some CRM that I maintain.

b) are you also building tools to help me showcase my consulting portfolio? (Like Dribble is for designers, but something more generic to encompass all types of freelancers/consultants). I would like to have a portfolio page on the platform - that I can easily create with some (no-code?) tools - and then something my referral network can easily point to - to their next level connections - as Proof of Work.

<comment><USER59> We haven't worked on a) yet but its on the roadmap. We want to import it from gmail as of now but linkedIn is on the list too.

We have a very basic services page that gets set up. More than portfolio we focus on how you can help your potential client. So really trying to showcase a very specific problem that you're dream client can relate to.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> 1) I thought that getting clients would be relatively easy, but getting new ones is more about trust than anything else. I moved back to my home town after spending two years away and noticed that my professional network there was quite poor so it took awhile to find a gig (~2 months and it's not in my home town).

2) When looking for opportunities (any kind really), the 80/20 rule applies. Try to focus on the 20% that produce 80% of the results. In our case we started by cold contacting, with quite poor results. Instead, we've been pretty successful using local freelancing networks/sites ran by larger consultancies to outsource the work they don't have the resources to do. Granted that's just subcontracting but it's a decent way to start out. I'd imagine the way the 80/20 rule applies when building direct client relationships is to focus on large-ish corporatios with decent financials that are already using contractors.

</comment><comment><USER61> I've been freelancing for ~20 years.

One of the biggest mistakes was not charging enough early on, which lead to taking on work from questionable clients.

I think it was easy for me to fall into that trap because I started really young (pretty much right out of high school). I had no mentors or anyone to talk to, and this was in the late 90s so there weren't thousands of blog posts and Youtube videos on this topic.

Your rates make a big difference and it's not just related to your income, it's also heavily tied into the type of clients you'll be working with. On average after many hundreds of gigs at varying price rates I find the more you charge, the more easy going your clients are. They tend to trust you to do your job instead of trying to micro-manage everything with unrealistic expectations. Of course this comes with more responsibility, but that's a trade off I'll make every time.

</comment><comment><USER62> Not making the client pay specifically and separate for travel. It should cost them more to have you come over to their office. That way incentives are aligned. That way they'll book all weeks meetings in one day, instead of having you come over to their office every day.

And ensuring travel hours, despite being paid, are not working hours. Working on a train or plane is fine, if you feel like it. But it should be your choice, a courtesy. Not something they can expect. "I'll get that report 9:30 tomorrow. Tomorrow? But you still have two hours of travelling. Yes. Which is why I cannot finish it tonight."

</comment><comment><USER63> I think there are three mistakes I'd make:

1\. I wasted a lot of time as a freelance web designer trying to get clients and convince them to go with me. I think someone would tell me they wanted a website. Without taking any payment at all, I'd setup a demo website. It wouldn't be a whole lot, but I'd setup at least half the pages with lorem ipsum, only to have them tell me they'd get back to me... or take forever for us to get the website done.

2\. I always undervalued my work thinking that they would go to another client. To this day, I still am a culprit of making this mistake. It's not that I should overcharge a client, but for a lot of the bullshit they put you through, back and forth, meetings... etc. I was giving away a lot of free time.

3\. A lot of times I'd have clients going into their website and making their own mistakes.. nothing that was my doing.. nothing that even required me, but oftentimes, I'd rush to fix everything for them. Soon as I stopped rushing.. I realized a lot of the time, clients figure it out themselves, especially the usual minor mistakes they'd make.

</comment><comment><USER64> Here is my way of doing it, after 20+ years of experience in the field. Be sure to watch the video in the "article".

www.trollandre.com/rent-me/

</comment><comment><USER65> Those were the errors I made for a project I was a consultant/freelancer:

\- Not charging the right price per hour, because "I was starting, this was an opportunity". \- Not putting boundaries on client limits, as in, "no you can't call me whenever you want" (especially if you live in a different timezone) I personally understand they need to have an answer, but they can do perfectly fine by e-mail and you'll have to set to them a deadline for replies, for example "I will call/or reply you as soon as I get the e-mail" on the contract. \- I didn't bill them for every cost they make me do like travel meetings and other general costs, so at the end my profits were even low. \- I didn't had a contract, that was completely solid, so, get a lawyer who can draft you a solid contract with all your needs. \- I was so overswamp of work that I couldn't manage all the expenses, or other time that I didn't bill to them, so also, get an accountant if you are charging them with something that might be funky.

<comment><USER66> I generally disagree with the "charge more" recommendation in the beginning. The reality is that until you have a sustainable client base, taking lower rates is often a necessity. In time, though, you should raise your rates to be market center.

One more mistake I would add was that I didn't specialize at first. I marketed myself as a general full-stack software developer and that was the wrong move. Now I specialize in a particular area that I focus on and excel at and that is something companies are willing to pay for. The value proposition is clear; they're paying for a specialization that they won't ever have (or need long- term) in-house.

Edit: I own and run a very profitable consulting company, among other things.

</comment></comment><comment><USER67> As a junior software engineer I wonder, how do you get started with contract work, and how do you keep getting clients? Is it all networking?

</comment><comment><USER68> 1) Setting my rates too low

2) Not saying 'no'

3) Not making contracts and accepting changes mid project

</comment><comment><USER69> Not full time freelancer, but I made many and still make some those includes

-Not charging enough.

-Spending less time to find client

-Not specifying Time required to complete task

-I have micro-experience of many platform and business specific task, but despite knowing its is rare to find such developer I always forget to charge enough.

-Taking fixed price for project with ambiguous scope like firing on own leg.

-Not to know when to refuse to do something

and many more.

</comment><comment><USER70> My top-three biggest mistakes were, in order of severity:

1\. Taking on and continuing to work with asshole clients. 2\. Setting my rates too low (I didn't account for taxes, paying both halves of FICA, and healthcare as much as I should have). 3\. Not finding a good balance between finding clients and actually doing the work.

</comment><comment><USER71> Constantly update expectations based on how the work is actually going and based on evolving requirements. If you are T&M or Fixed Fee, you need to always give people your best expectation of progress and where you think (even with a lot of uncertainty) you'll be when the budget runs out. If you do this constantly and early clients feel empowered to make choices (including adding more budget). If you just work until the money is gone either you eat the overage or the client is blindsided and pissed off.

The short version of this: Never, ever, go over budget - always ask for more money or a cut in scope and always do so as early as humanly possible.

If you and/or the client aren't clear on scope or if the budget is enough, don't sleep at night, confront and squash the uncertainty and resultant misalignments or you will get bitten!

</comment><comment><USER72> Everyone here covered 99% of the things I would say so I'm going to add a few important ones that people missed.

\- Estimation. Devs are notoriously bad at it... so don't think of it as an estimation of the amount of time something will take, think of it as a negotiation with the goal of getting them to agree to the most amount of time something could take. If your estimation doesn't seem ridiculous to you then you did a bad job of negotiating.

\- Asshole tax. If you get a client that you think is going to be an asshole tax them for that privilege. +20% at least (make sure you're charging more to begin with as previously mentioned). Now this may seem wrong but if they turn out to be not an asshole (which happens a lot), but to make this right with the universe just do more work and don't bill for it. The idea here is that you still end up being mentally happy to do the work even if working with them is painful.

\- Use options to negotiate better. There is a bunch of advice saying "don't charge by project"... hogwash. If you can make more money by leveraging a customer's desire to know ahead of time what something will cost you can make money on that. You can clearly define ahead of time exactly what the project entails, charge a 2X or 3X what it would cost in hourly, and then charge for scope changes (which we all know there will be a ton of). Similarly, when you present a proposal, give at least 3 options: "cheap-ass", "normal", and "deluxe"... you will be surprised how many people will spend extra money because they can (you can do this even if the project is billed hourly). Furthermore... people that head into "cheap-ass" land give you valuable information on how to deal with them - most of the time this means you do the same thing but need to itemize your work more heavily (more on this).

\- Itemization. Better Negotiation and billing higher amounts are improved by itemization. they say the person that comes to the negotiation table with the most bullet points to negotiate over will win the negotiation. Billing is just a different negotiation.

\- Getting content is a nightmare for web clients. Charge for that... but as mentioned elsewhere make the charge in the form of a discount elsewhere. If the content is delivered by XX-XX-XXXX the project is discounted $XXX. THIS INCLUDES BASE ECOMMERCE PRODUCTS.

\- Don't try to hire people to do part of your work until you are REALLY efficient at it.

\- Exercising is part of your job if you are 100% on your own. Seriously.

\- If a tool will save you time buy it immediately. Avoid free tools - <USER5> will pay for them later and it will cost you more.

<comment><USER73> > Estimation. Devs are notoriously bad at it

I wouldn't say devs are bad at it. It's more that software development is very hard to estimate. Unless you're doing exactly the same type of work with an identical setup every time - like billing people to install a Wordpress site, it's often impossible to estimate the exact amount of days or hours something will take, especially if you're being paid to fix a bug or a problem to which you don't yet know the solution.

</comment></comment><comment><USER74> Too cheap and not sending early enough invoices, because it felt hard to do while we were still working together. Now I'm more expensive and send invoices right away. If there are troubles with payment I have a better lever and can also stop working with a client.

</comment><comment><USER75> When you're starting out, it can be easy to think that you'll just undercut your competition - if not for the experience gained.

No, here's the truth: When you undervalue your work, you'll attract the types of clients you don't want to work with. Scammers, misers and bargain hunters, etc.

You're also signaling that you're inexperienced - even though you may have a legit reason for charging less. I know consultants that work from home, and live in extremely cheap areas, or simply don't have many expenses, compared to consultants living in high COL areas.

So yeah, charge more. It's a good filter that you don't need to actively work on.

</comment><comment><USER76> Lots of advice to raise your prices, which I agree with, but just be careful if quoting for a dream project or something in an industry you want to move into.

I recently quoted for such a project, with a higher price than usual but not unreasonable at all. Heard nothing back from the client for weeks now when discussions were previously going well. I feel like they have taken offence at my quote or something.

I am a bit of specialist in the particular area so pretty sure they won't find someone else to do it for less, which was part of the reason for my slightly higher quote.

Any advice on how to follow up in a situation like that?

<comment><USER77> Something as short as "Have you given up on this?" might work

</comment></comment><comment><USER78> Here's some solid advice for consulting: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YF0_N7DuwA&t=1254s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YF0_N7DuwA&t=1254s)

</comment><comment><USER79> From a business perspective - regardless of the content of consulting/freelancing:

People respond to incentives and everything that matters to you and to the client is up for discussion.

I do a mix of project work, training, and team/design coaching. I have a graduated rate schedule. If we're doing a long-term project, I'll typically price work out at the week level and bill at what comes out to be a lower effective hourly rate. This is fine, because these things are planned in advance and I can schedule around them. For customers that want to be able to get an hour or two of time nearly on-demand, I bill a much higher effective hourly rate and bill at 15 minute intervals.

I value my time, and I value being able to plan for things. I incentivize clients to do this by charging them more for things that are relatively inconvenient.

I like being paid on net30 terms - this is how I plan my cash flow. If a client has a blanket rule for net60 or something else, I'll discuss with them my preference, and will typically offer early payment discounts, something like a 2.5/30 net60. Again, incentivizing my preference. I'd rather have a predictable cash flow.

Regarding the second item - it's always worth discussing something. I've never had a customer issue with schedule or scope when we've talked through what's happening. Your work matters to your customer. Keep them apprised of what's happening.

I will typically have active work with 3-5 clients at a time. I have a mix of remote clients and those that prefer on-site presence. For much of the last month and a half, I worked out of one client's office, but had daily standing commitment from 12-5 for another remote client. The on-site client was fine with this, because we discussed the schedule. They prioritized the on-site presence and immediate availability.

I typically won't work full time for a single client. I consider full-time to be 40hr/wk for more than two consecutive weeks. This doesn't mean I have no long term clients, just that we work out schedules that work for both of us. This is because I value my schedule flexibility and don't want to be beholden to a single client. My clients get this.

</comment><comment><USER80> This is going to sound basic: not charging enough. It's worth an entire blog post. Between imposter syndrome and economics, you probably won't value your experience enough.

</comment><comment><USER81> Took a project as a whole price. As a result, the client asked for a lot of changes and paid only initial price, of course. What was supposed to be a short 2 days project blew into a full month. Learned my lesson, never worked on a fixed-price project again, only hourly. Now I welcome clients with gazillion of change requests and new features since I get paid by the hour. Also allows me to be at hand maintenance guy after project is done. This way pays the bills quite nicely.

<comment><USER82> I outsource a lot of game dev related work. Usually I give the requirements, ask for an estimate from the contractor then I increase it 25% and ask if they'd do it at that fixed price. Does that seem fair? So far it seems to have worked out over a few tasks but curious what objections you or others reading might have to this?

<comment><USER43> > I outsource a lot of game dev related work.

Do you mind if I ask what kind of game dev related work?

My experience in the industry involved only hiring companies to do completed bits of work. This included programming, art, sound and level designs all in one. Basically, whole playable levels and/or mini-games from scratch. Not ideal jobs for a single programmer.

<comment><USER82> Working on a first person shooter in Unreal Engine 4 so tasks include stuff like weapon inventory systems, bullet penetration, AI bots, server hosting, modding tools, in-game VOIP. I also do a lot of programming (~75%) but outsource modular tasks where ever I can to try to buy some time.

<comment><USER43> I bet that kind of work is more interesting than CRUD work. Thanks for the info!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER83> Starting work before I had a written purchase order in hand (or at least a verbal purchase order number with the promise of getting me the written purchase order soon). if you're working before you get the purchase order there's no need for them to actually make this a priority. It always eventually turns into a problem. Also having a purchase order shows that everyone in the company is on the same page (between engineering and the finance department).

</comment><comment><USER84> Like most of here pointed out, I didn't charge high enough. When I started I was afraid if I charge too much, they will leave.

But still, I haven't learned from my mistakes. I charge way too less compared to what people posted here. I don't increase the price continuously. PLUS I don't market myself much. I heard word of mouth marketing is best for freelancers but I am yet to get a gig from word of mouth marketing.

</comment><comment><USER85> When a customer makes a new request or tries to modify a requirement, don't be afraid to say no if you don't think it's reasonable

</comment><comment><USER86> Reading many replies here I now understand why prices go from $2 to $200. The work often gets easier but the intermediaries increase.

</comment><comment><USER87> Lot of good comments here. The /r/freelance subreddit is also a good place to ask questions & discuss issues.

</comment><comment><USER88> What's the appeal of being an independent consultant?

Why would you do this versus any other business or job?

Genuinely curious what the appeal is.

<comment><USER6> For me:

\- I get to work on something new every few months. New company, new people, new challenges, etc. This keeps things interesting.

\- I get to do what I think is best for the client, rather than taking orders from someone.

\- Pays much better than salaried positions (for me, at least).

\- I get to define my own job. If next year I decide to switch from marketing consulting to, say, operations consulting or sales consulting or illustration work or some narrow marketing thing like site conversion optimization, I just update my website headline it's done.

\- Experience the joy of running a business. Project cash flow, close deals, scope out projects, deliver results, collect feedback, track invoices... Love it.

\- Ultimate flexibility. Last year I took a month off to travel, and this year I took a month off for paternity leave. All it took is advance notice to my clients, and a return date so they know when we can pick back up.

<comment><USER89> Can you share what you consult on?

<comment><USER6> I'm an engineer-turned-marketing-consultant for enterprise software startups. I help them attract and convert more enterprise customers in a repeatable way.

<comment><USER90> Interesting

How long is your average engagement, if you don't mind asking.

Also I suspect this requires a lot of travel (and time away from home), correct?

<comment><USER6> Starts with two months, usually, and on average goes for over a year. As the startup grows there are always new challenges that pop up.

Actually I barely travel even though most my clients are in the Bay Area and I'm on the east coast. Everything is done remotely with email, slack, and zoom. I go there once a quarter but even that is just for some face-to-face time and not out of necessity.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER91> Do not work extended periods without getting paid. Especially if it's something approaching 40 hours a week.

</comment><comment><USER92> Bring the client in to ask them what to do when something unforseen happens in a project. Even if you know what should be done, having them make the decision with you means they can't come back 6 months down the line and complain about the project not being delivered on time.

</comment><comment><USER93> If you are in the US, make sure you are up to speed on any county/local regulations and tax laws about running a business. Even as a freelancer and depending on your area, you may need to obtain a business license, pay gross receipts or any other such legal obligations.

</comment><comment><USER51> The thing that most forget: it is impossible to estimate. So don't do it. Charge by period and keep communication to the client what you did in that time. Give them confidence that you provide them company value for the time they pay you.

</comment><comment><USER94> Get a retainer and start work when check clears. Invoice client against the retainer. When the retainer low, ask for more money. When the retainer is spent, stop work until additional funds are deposited.

</comment><comment><USER95> As freelancer or as a consultant? As a freelancer i once didn't stop working for a client who didn't pay for a month. Because we cooperated for a year and good contact with him. I never got these money back.

</comment><comment><USER96> Also, there is this advice from Mike Monteiro (explicit language):

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVkLVRt6c1U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVkLVRt6c1U)

</comment><comment><USER97> Not sufficiently understanding my own brain. If I'd known then what I know now about ADHD, things would have gone very differently.

(OK, I don't really think of this as a mistake, but still...)

</comment><comment><USER98> There is an excellent book that I would suggest called "The Secrets of Consulting" by Gerald Weinberg.

I also use a tool called FreshBooks that has been killer as far as invoicing and tracking time.

<comment><USER99> Happy ex customer of Freshbooks (ex because I am no longer consulting). I will say if you are disciplined and want to save every penny, you can get by with Excel and word for invoicing, but once you get your first client or two, Freshbooks is real nice to have. Easier, invoices look better, you get reporting.

And the Weinberg book is top notch. Anyone who wants to solve problems in business should read it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER100> For B2C, get 100% upfront. For B2B, 50%. I am willing to walk away from all business when my payment terms are not met. Life is so much less problematic.

</comment><comment><USER101> Don't be afraid to fire the client. Be conscientious but don't allow your priorities to be kidnapped.

</comment><comment><USER102> Would you take company options/shares as part of the compensation if they can't afford to pay more?

</comment><comment><USER64> Here is my way of doing it; www.trollandre.com/rent-me

Based upon 20+ years experience.

Be sure to watch the video listed in the doc.

</comment><comment><USER103> Underestimate time needed, and I didn't communicate often enough.

</comment><comment><USER104> Not charging enough. Not spending enough time looking for new business

</comment><comment> awinter-py Don't forget to withhold quarterly taxes if you're 1099

</comment><comment><USER105> Undercharging. Double your rate to get better clients.

</comment><comment><USER106> Didn't buy errors & omissions insurance.

</comment><comment> o-__-o \- Not forming an LLC: first gig was done as myself, in hindsight i could have been sued and had a judgement or bankruptcy hang over my personal head for 10 years (no assets back then, but you could lose your home if you own one. don't do it). Get an LLC, get a registered agent, get a PO box, get a bank account and a bank ledger. Money you want to spend from the business goes into the bank account as a deposit and comes out as a business check or business credit/debit purchase. If you spend on a personal CC, reimburse yourself from the business bank account. Don't pierce that veil.

\- Closing the deal / Asking for the sale: Gave away waaaay too much work for free thinking it's advancing us to the point of the sale. Don't give away your work for free, not only does that lower your value in their eyes (people care when they pay for things) but you are ultimately,

\- Undercharging: left money on the table like a fool not billing for "small things"

\- Using my own ERP: no one uses whatever system you found on github, they use quickbooks. get that, export to whatever format your erp understands

\- Paying taxes quarterly like a fool

\- Forgetting I am a contractor: got a migraine? no meetings or deliverables? found a hot lead? DON'T GO TO THE CLIENT SITE

\- Self-hosting the wrong tools trying to save a buck: Opensource gitlab is nice. Opensource gitlab is not nice when you need to troubleshoot why Postgres is spewing vacuum errors.

\- Going SaaS with the wrong tools and hemorrhaging money between clients: Paying for heroku to host an app I can run in docker locally, paying for dropbox when google or onedrive is free, paying yearly on something only used twice a year.

\- Not billing 2/10NET30 and not charging late fees: Get your money faster if you offer them a 2% discount if paid in 10 days instead of 30. If they pay after 30, they will be fees that will continue to be added until they are considered deliquent and then collections. I've also offered 5% on higher $ contracts

\- Not having a contract or blindly accepting the clients contract: My business insurance discounts me if I execute using my contract. Without a contract spelling out requirements change procedures, it becomes a back and forth negotiation game in the middle of project crunch time. Don't do it, have an outlined process agreed to at the start of th engagement and use a bugtracker.

\- Enforcing the contract consistently: If you require something in writing, make sure there is a paper trail. If you end up in court it makes your lawyers job that much easier and that much lighter on your pocket book. I just watched $200k fly out the window because writings were saved on the client controlled G Suite and there were a lot of verbal face-to-face handshake agreements. Always in writing, summarized from your regular business email address.

\- Not growing: I'm in profit from this client. I should have another client lined up or two or three executing at the same time. I should hire someone to help me with that fourth client or to find the fifth client.

\- Thinking you can land a USG contract: don't waste your time. Unless you want to suffer through the GSA, try to partner through an established firm instead. YMMV, but i'm done with the US public sector.

<comment><USER36> Can you elaborate on the "DON'T GO TO THE CLIENT SITE" point?

<comment><USER107> Probably that if you show any weakness - anything from physical discomfort, being sick, not being 100% mentally, the customer may end up losing confidence in you. It's better come to delay and come back fully prepared.

<comment> o-__-o I like to use the plumber model to describe this. When you have a major problem in your house you hire a plumber. He or she will show up as necessary to fix the problem, probably every day, but what about when that part needs to come in. They are going to come to your house, pull out a laptop and sit at your table while they talk to other suppliers about other jobs and direct their workers at other sites? No, they are going to give you a summary and head off to make money somewhere else.

Now if you don't have anything else to do, sure go in and network.. find leads. But if your contract is 6 months and you're just extra hands on site... go try to make more money!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER108> Charging too little.

</comment><comment><USER109> Charge by the hour.

</comment><comment><USER110> Few things:

\- Get your accounting in order. Pay a professional to do it; don't try to do it yourself.

\- Take care of yourself. You'll probably be flying a lot; don't take the cheapest routes, tell the client it's business at >4 hours in the air, etc.

\- I unfortunately get brought into a lot of situations where a CEO / VP is looking for justification in firing someone or making a big structural change. In these cases, it's important to keep in mind that you're working for the person who is paying your fee and to not get hung up on trying to fix the situation. It sucks.

\- Charge a lot. Think up the largest number you believe would be reasonable for your services and multiply that by 1.5x. Consultants are supposed to be expensive.

\- You'll be amazed by how many people reach out and want to take phone calls to go on fishing expeditions / mine you for free value. The way I deal with this is: A) I ask very pointed questions about what, exactly, they're looking for in an engagement via email before I take a call. If they don't have a compelling need, I decline ("I don't think this is a good fit for me." -> be blunt) and B) I have developed a 6th sense for whether a company can afford me / the project sounds viable. If you have enough inbound, don't be afraid of false positives in turning down phone calls.

\- Don't bill hourly. I charge per project on the basis of value; if a potential client fights you on this, reject them.

\- Try to get work on a retainer basis. You're being paid to not only do work but to be available -- you're a service provider. This is nice because the revenue "stacks" up and you also get more integrated into the team this way as it frames you as a source of insight / wisdom. If you're using consulting as an entry point into a new role, this is very effective.

\- Build something proprietary: an Excel model, some tech, an audit framework, a taxonomy, whatever. Brand it. That's now "your thing" and you can set a market price for it that is divorced from incremental work.

\- Build out a proprietary funnel for business: a blog, Twitter presence, whatever. If you have to go find business on your own / do sales, you can't charge as much as when people come to you.

\- In general, I think it's good to be skeptical and to err on the side of telling people "no." There are a ton of lightweights / window shoppers / sleazy people out there; get good at detecting them and rejecting them quickly.

\- NOTHING IS FREE. You don't pitch, you don't do exploratory onsites, you don't give samples, you don't take "no-agenda meetings," you don't let people "pick your brain." You are a consultant and if people want your insight, they need to pay you for it. Internalize this phrase: F __* YOU, PAY ME.

</comment><comment><USER111> I am a management consultant, so field of work might be different from yours, but general rules are probably the same. Also, I am not a freelancer, though i have worked often with them. My two pence:

\- Always have a Scope of Work (SOW) agreed BEFORE you start working: Clients are often bad at explaining what they want in detail, and consultants are equally bad at being realistic at what they can offer in the amount of time available.

\- Always (ideally) have a contract signed before you do any substantial work. The contract and the SoW are your main protection against scope creep. And usually it is the consultant who drafts them first, not the client, so it is your best chance of driving the project details.

\- Rates vary with client, length of the contract, stage of client relationship (lower rates for first project), but ...

\- Rates tend to be sticky. If you work for Xusd/h for the first project, many clients will expect that rate to stay for the next one too. So your first negotiation is the more difficult and the more important at the same time.

\- Rather than offer a low rate, state your full rate and the discount you apply and why (e.g. first project, long project, maybe the client is putting some resources and tools on the project...)

\- Preferably charge by hour, day or week. The proposal or contract should have an estimate of total price, based on estimate of duration, but it should clearly state that it is an estimate and you will change based on time units.

\- However, it is very likely that yours is not the only offer they receive, so they will compare them on the same basis, based on a fixed amount of hours per day, and the duration of the project. A consulting firm staffing a team has more leeway with the composition of the team (junior consultant to Partner), and comparisons among firms are slightly more difficult (usually done on the basis of blended rate). The quotes of freelancers are very easy to convert and compare.

\- Expenses are always on top (travel, hotels; meals are a question mark)

\- Try to find out hourly or day rates of consulting firm (in you field of activity) in your country: they are likely a lot higher than what you think of charging, partly because they have higher costs, but also because they factor in a % of idle time of their resources during the year. You should do the same. Your rate will probably still be lower then theirs as there is a real value in being part of a firm with established methodologies, expertise, examples... (this may be less applicable in other fields of consulting )

\- Think about why they need a consultant: is it because their resources are too busy or because they do not know how to resolve the problem they have? The latter gives you more leverage on the rate.

\- Remember that every client is different: some impose work based on a fixed total price, some do not want to reimburse expenses (and may be fine with a % markup on the rate). Often it is due to internal procurement rules and guidelines, which will be difficult to change.

\- Bill often throughout a project (frequency depends on project duration: weekly for short assignments, monthly for longer).

\- A good practice is to send a fee tracker weekly to the client, showing hours worked and incurred fee. This avoids surprises. It is best if you have some deliverables or progress report to show as well.

\- If you feel that the project is taking longer than expected, be open about it and explain why (it may be because some input from the client was delayed, and they usually do not object to additional compensation, or at least they will push to accelerate on their side; it may be because things are more difficult than expected: this may become a difficult conversation, so be prepared to explain why it is so, what can be done, etcetera).

\- Your project is also the best occasion to get another project with the same client (as a follow-on activity or maybe because while working on it you get to know they have other problems that you can help with. It is BY FAR the best form of business development.

</comment><comment><USER112> My most regrettable mistake was not doing it earlier in my career.

<comment><USER13> This. If I had started back in '11 or '12 instead of '18 I wouldn't have a mortgage right now.</comment></comment>


Hackers & Founders Co-op, The Accidental Incubator - <AUTHOR> http://hackersandfounders.posterous.com/hackers-founders-co-op-the-accidental-incubat

<comment><USER2> Those who have met Jonathan know that he has a heart of gold. This is a guy who just wants to help those that deserve it. I'll be supporting the Co-op as much as I can and watching closely as this first set of startups grow up.

Keep up the good work!

And see you all at the next H&F meetup...

<comment><USER3> H&F is the only meetup I've found that's worth going to -- from when it was 20 people at St. John's Bar and Grill up to it's current several thousand form where we need to take over Pedro's Cantina. And like Jonathan said, he wasn't doing it for any selfish reason (unless you count hanging out with geeks). Silicon Valley could stand to use a few more like him...

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Just left this comment on the post itself, but extremely proud fo you Jonathan and Laura!

So excited to see this take shape guys. Kudos to all the great work to our friends and colleagues out West. You guys will always have a network to come into here in NYC!

</comment><comment><USER5> Proud to see H&F building so much traction and keeping things innovative. - Asher Bond

</comment><comment><USER6> This is something that people like me really need. A genuine help is always welcomed!!

Wish I could attend the Thursday Meet-up...can I?

</comment><comment><USER7> I've met amazing people at H&F. The co-op is a great initiative. We need more of these. +++

</comment><comment><USER8> +1 to all good tidings.

</comment><comment><USER9> this is an awesome initiative. keep you the good work

</comment><comment><USER10> +1</comment>


Lithium will fuel the clean energy boom. This company may have a breakthrough - <AUTHOR> https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2019-10-14/california-lithium-geothermal-salton-sea <comment><USER2> I don't know about clean energiness of lithium mines.</comment>


Samsung Z is the world's first commercial Tizen phone - <AUTHOR> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/06/the-samsung-z-is-the-worlds-first-commercial-tizen-phone/

<comment><USER2> Beyond Android, we now have quite a few alternatives with hardware coming. Tizen, Sailfish, FirefoxOS, Ubuntu.. Are there any hopes for a 5% market share for any?

</comment><comment><USER3> Please no... Samsung needs to stick behind Android, and stop trying to be a singular ecosystem like Apple.</comment>


qpm, a package manager for Qt / QML - <AUTHOR> http://www.cutehacks.com/blog/2015/10/5/say-hello-to-qpm-a-package-manager-for-qtqml <comment><USER2> > qpm is a command line tool for installing and managing dependencies for your > application. It is based around Qt's .pri file support so everything gets > compiled into your application binary. No libraries, no plugins, no qt.conf, > no deploying QML/JS files. Everything gets rolled into your app for easy > deployment. The tool itself follows the same principal. It's a single static > binary executable with no dependencies, no config files, and no environment > variables.

This sounds great. I know the file will actually be larger but I still think that we have the tendency to think everything should be smaller.

In Linux I think we need to deploy applications not sharing libraries past the basic frameworks (I don't know where the line should be drawn). Everything in a folder would make Linux just Linux and it would just work. Uninstalling an application would be deleting a folder.

This is a platform dependent on Linux, OS X, and Windows with everything included in a single binary.

<comment><USER3> When I upgrade OpenSSL, I want to upgrade one package and have everything get the benefit. I _do not_ want _anything_ I think is secure to be insecure because its encryption code wasn't actually upgraded.

That goes for other packages, too.

<comment><USER2> Well how does Containers work?

<comment><USER4> They don't -- at least they don't really do anything substantially different. Depending on the container implementation, they either work by using the system library, which have all the downsides of shared libraries, or they bundle their own which have all the downsides shipping a potentially old or insecure version that won't see updates.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> This seems like something the qt.io guys should be taking up.

<comment><USER6> Exactly, I've been thinking for a while that the lack of a package manager is really holding back qml adoption.

<comment><USER5> I recently spent some time with npm. Holy fuck, that is a gorgeous piece of shit.

It's gorgeous because it does exactly what it's supposed to do, exceptionally well.

It's a piece of shit because every little thing you use has 3 billion dependencies which you have to validate and verify n some manner.

<comment><USER7> > It's a piece of shit because every little thing you use has 3 billion > dependencies which you have to validate and verify n some manner.

If you mean to prevent breakage, shrinkwrap lets you lock down dependency versions: [https://docs.npmjs.com/cli/shrinkwrap](https://docs.npmjs.com/cli/shrinkwrap)

If you mean something else (security?) then I'd probably just not use npm, because as you said your dependency tree is going to be deep and reviewing all of that code is impossible.

<comment><USER5> I think that's a consequence of its success. Every little library that anyone thought of building is up there.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


It's Done I'm Shipping It - <AUTHOR> http://www.brettkwarner.com/its-done-im-shipping-it/

<comment><USER2> Really looking forward to seeing what it is you will be shipping tomorrow! I myself have been working on an idea for about a couple of months now, and I can relate to what your are going through! I just hope that I can ship my product pretty soon as well! Once you ship, you'll gain much more insight on your product through customer feedback, which I believe is the most valuable part of your product once you have shipped!

<comment><AUTHOR> My advice, set a hard deadline and announce to your clients and partners that could potentially send sales that you'll have it in their hands on that date. No excuses.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Sweet, what are we shipping?

Seriously though, you're on the front page of HN, seems like a good opportunity to promote your product.

<comment><AUTHOR> Wow, first time I've ever submitted anything as well. I'm insanely happy but this wasn't an attempt at promoting it. I'm trying very hard to keep my blog and my business interests separate.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Guess you changed your mind? 404..

<comment><AUTHOR> Still not quite sure why you got this. Couldn't replicate. I'll be checking error logs, etc to ensure whatever it was doesn't happen again. Only receive 3 404's for something like 2k visitors yesterday.

<comment><USER4> Did you change the post title? I figured since your URLs contain the title then that's what must have happened. Works now though :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Sort of... I had the post open in two tabs, one tab with the original title, one with the title I posted here. A few seconds after posting I noticed a sentence I didn't like, tweaked it in the wrong window, hit save, saw the title change, switched it back. You must have hit in that few second time frame.

<comment><USER4> Ah yep that'll be it, congrats on shipping!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I wish I knew what "it" was...

<comment><AUTHOR> It's essentially a program that trains attorneys on how to run their businesses. My partner is really the face of it and the person that designed the curriculum, but I put together all the tech, members area, sales pages, etc.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Congrats - do tell us tomorrow what it actually is. But congrats!</comment>