Stripe in Japan - <AUTHOR> https://stripe.com/blog/stripe-in-japan <comment><USER2> I evaluated stripe for a French company here in Europe, having heard lots of good things about them, and I have to say that while the integration was top notch, they were vastly inferior to local bank competitors in two areas : no support whatsoever for 3D secure (once you've started using it, you never want to go back), and way higher pricing. National banks (CIC, Caisse d'Epargne) both offered % way, way lower than stripe (under 0.5% per transaction, stripe being almost 3* that for European card and 6* that for non European card).

Even including the small monthly fee and the harder / higher cost integration, it made no sense to go with them.

Was a bit surprised, mostly by the good terms that could be obtained in locally national banks once you sit with someone. Company I was representing wasn't very large (12 employees). I wonder what others here have experienced? Is it a special scenario that never happens, is it usual?

<comment><USER3> > 3D secure

As a customer, I hate 3D secure. When I get that shit thrown at me, I often just head over to Amazon and buy the same item there. Even if it is more expensive.

Reasons:

The 3D Secure form always looks so unprofessional it makes me shiver.

It often is loaded in an iframe so it could come from god knows where.

Often it plain out does not work. It aborts the transaction with "Transaction aborted" or something like that with no further info. So I sit there thinking "Uhm.. what now? Is my password wrong or what?".

Why would I input even _more_ of my data into your damn form? The more data I give you, the easier you can mess with me. Now my CC card number and verification number is not enough anymore. Now you want my 3D "secure" password. What do you want next?

<comment><USER4> I've used it via "verified by visa" with two banks in two countries.

In both cases, there is a custom phrase that I provide the bank, which is then provided on the 3D-secure page where i enter the sms OTP.

Honestly so long as they show me the phrase I gave them, I couldn't give two shits if it looks like it was designed in 2002, at least that keeps it consistent with the rest of their online banking page styles.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> We (at MakeLeaps) integrated Stripe as an option in our SaaS product for small businesses in Japan pretty much as soon as it became available in beta. Our users can send Japanese invoices and have them paid through Stripe. We just flipped on multi-currency support when they launched it in beta and it was done in a day.

They've been rolling out features to close the gap in functionality with the US product and working really closely with us. Daniel and their team has been great to work with and having local support staff is really important in this market. So yeah, we're fans.

Compared to how difficult it can be for our customers to get up and running with other payment providers and how quickly they can get paid out, Stripe has the potential to be a big influence on the payments space in Japan.

BTW, if you know anyone running a business in Japan and want a bilingual back- office that is easily integrated with Stripe, just look us up!

</comment><comment><USER6> Quick stats about credit card usage in Japan for people interested.

In Tokyo, most shops and restaurants accept credit card. In other cities (including Kyoto and Osaka), only about 30% of restaurants or smaller shops accept credit card. Chain store and department store usually accept credit cards, it's just the small mom and pop shop that are taking some time. The situation is improving fast though.

Online, I have a friend managing an ecommerce there with about 400 million dollar sales per year. Right now, 40% of the orders are cash on delivery. It was 60% of the orders three years ago.

Credit card is hard to get for foreigners (like usual) and for young people without stable jobs (banks tend to be rather risk averse).

I'm happy that Stripe is in Japan because the existing credit card providers are mostly incompetent and have really stupid apis.

</comment><comment><USER7> When will it be 2 day settlement in the EU like it is in the US. I don't get how competitors can do it and yet stripe still holds off.

<comment><USER8> Can't you request them to do that anyway? That said, I still don't understand why this is so relevant to a business?

<comment><USER9> Getting your money later means that your you are effectively giving out a free loan to whoever is holding your money. For you that's an opportunity cost because you can't reinvest the money for some period of time.

If your expenses have to be paid before you get your money this can also be a cash flow issue (or make a cash flow issue worse), when a peak in demand leaves you very profitable but unable to pay your bills because you're waiting for your money to arrive.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Isn't Japan mostly cash-based? Seems like an interesting location to expand to.

<comment><USER11> Japan is mostly cash-based for face-to-face transactions.

Online, users are extremely comfortable paying electronically. You have to remember that paying via mobile was a thing here several years before the rest of the world, so people have had longer to acclimatize.

As a reference point, Japan spent around $8B via mobile phones in 2006 (i.e. before the iphone launched).

<comment><USER12> Best i recall a large part about this was that the carriers had their own banks that could issue credit cards that was linked to the phone.

<comment><USER11> They may well have done for legal reasons, but the point for consumers was that you could find a product in a web page and hit purchase, and the cost would just show up as a line item in your phone bill, without any signups or credit card numbers.

Similar deal with NFC payments. They launched here in 2004, and were fairly widespread by the time smartphones arrived. It used to be very common for people to move "up" to a smartphone and then be surprised to find out how many features they'd given up.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> > ANA (the largest airline in Japan)

Just nitpicking here but for marketing-wise, I think this is a rather unwise wording.

ANA is one of the two biggest airline companies in Japan, but they only became so in 2014, and it's fairly questionable if they can stay that way forever. The two companies are fiercely competing. By stating one of them "the largest" you're giving people an impression that you are being too pushy or not careful enough. I dunno in the US, but this is bad for potential customers in Japan who would expect certain prudence from financial companies. And apparently they just translated this into Japanese straightforward, which they shouldn't if they really care about marketing in Japan. Hope they learn these subtleties soon.

<comment><USER14> ANA is the largest airline in Japan though.

<comment><USER15> I've always thought of it as playing second fiddle to JAL. That's changed after JAL had to go through a lot of restructuring, but it's mostly been these two companies. There could be some numbers out there stating that ANA is the largest, but I'd guess there wouldn't be much of a margin.

<comment><USER16> 2015 revenue from air transportation:

        ANA - 1,484,600 million yen
        JAL - 1,205,200 million yen

That's pretty clear lead, and it's increasing year by year.

[1] [https://www.ana.co.jp/group/investors/irdata/annual/pdf/16f/...](https://www.ana.co.jp/group/investors/irdata/annual/pdf/16f/16_F_11.pdf)

[2] [https://www.jal.com/en/investor/library/finance/pdf/fy2015q4...](https://www.jal.com/en/investor/library/finance/pdf/fy2015q4_en0428.pdf)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> When is the rest of EU coming up? Same regulations everywhere I can't understand the hold up.

<comment><USER18> Braintree doesn't ignore the EU like Stripe. Use Braintree.

<comment><USER19> How does Stripe ignore the EU? It's available in quite a lot of countries here. Perhaps you mean 'ignore my specific country in the EU.'

<comment><USER18> I am glad it is available in your specific country in the EU :-)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Well done on the Japan launch.

Any plans to add South Africa soon?

It would be great to have Stripe on African soil.

<comment><USER21> YES PLEASE! ive beeeen waiting for stripe to come to South Africa, alot of other developers i know too are terribly frustrated of the unstable payment gateways we have down here. Stripe would be a much needed breath of fresh air.

<comment><USER22> I'm in the process of evaluating payment gateways for a Saas app that's currently using Stripe in the US, but needs to move to South Africa in the next few months. The closest I've come to something similar to Stripe is 2Checkout, but the lack proper of support for subscriptions (trial periods, product id's) is very dissapointing.

<comment><USER21> Yea, im considering using PayU while waiting for Stripe. Just really dislike the fact that they use soap services

PayU([http://payu.co.za](http://payu.co.za))

PayU subscriptions:[http://help.payu.co.za/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=8553425](http://help.payu.co.za/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=8553425)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> So happy about this, I've been on the stripe beta here for a while, and the support has been amazing. Keep up the good work!

</comment><comment><USER24> Does this mean Stripe Japan users can now accept USD, or is it still only JPY?

<comment><USER25> This does mean that Stripe users in Japan can charge in USD, or our other supported currencies. You put the currency in the API call based on whatever logic you want; we charge the user's CC in the specified currency; we credit your bank account JPY at the appropriate rate. (I work at Stripe, in Japan.)

As is typical for Stripe, this involved an ungodly amount of offline work to enable an extra query parameter that most of our customers will never have to think deeply about the implementation of.

<comment><USER24> Great news!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Just a reminder:

In Europe the main competitor is Adyen, which is basically the exact same thing, with a lower commission.

There is a truckload of marketing and news about Stripe, but really, it's nothing we didn't already have on our side of the Atlantic ;)

</comment><comment><USER27> Congrats! Great to see the growth.

</comment><comment><USER28> A feature that would make Stripe even more awesome would be the possibility to withdraw $USD to $USD bank accounts located in Europe without the need of losing 2% or more on conversion fees (or lower those fees!).

</comment><comment><USER29> Looking forward to Stripe's availability in Malaysia!

</comment><comment> FLUX-YOU Damn, patio11 got busy. Launching stuff in a whole new country for Stripe.

<comment><USER25> The Japan team was very, very busy for the last several months preparing for launch specifically and the last year getting the groundwork in place for servicing Japanese businesses. I literally arrived back in Japan the day before launch, got my business cards, and just had to do some minor translation and utility salarymanning.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> Good God does this mean I can actually buy something from Japanese online shops without being hassled by international payment problems?

Great!

</comment><comment><USER31> I like the Mt Fuji graphic.

<comment><USER32> Isn't this way too steep to be Mt Fuji?

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> Interesting! Japan hasn't had many startups come in for a while.

</comment><comment><USER34> Next stop, Korea?</comment>


Inbox 2.0: Yahoo and Google to Turn E-Mail Into a Social Network - <AUTHOR> http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/11/13/inbox-20-yahoo-and-google-to-turn-e-mail-into-a-social-network/ <comment><USER2> Me 50 days ago ( <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=59218> ):

> If google leveraged the gmail user base to make orkut bigger and integrated > it with igoogle widgets, it'd be something approaching facebook.

They should totally hire me to tell them things they already know. Actually thats pretty much the definition of a consultant already...

</comment><comment><USER3> Does anyone know if Xobni patented any concepts they use in their application? It will be interesting to see how this plays out and if it affects them at all.</comment>


Sweden to to start housing new asylum seekers in tents, - <AUTHOR> http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/swedish-pm-says-asylum-nu/2180880.html <comment><USER2> To draugadrotten, I found it odd that someone would link to an Asian news source for information about Sweden, rather than a more local source like [http://www.thelocal.se/20151009/tents-to-provide-shelter- for...](http://www.thelocal.se/20151009/tents-to-provide-shelter-for-refugees- in-sweden) which also gives more context.

So I looked at your history, which is more odd since I can't figure out why a Scandinavian like yourself would post a link to Channel NewsAsia.

As it turns out, the text is from Reuters, which is a news service that provides content to many newspapers and news sites. A better source for this Reuters piece is therefore [http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/10/09/uk- europe-migrants-...](http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/10/09/uk-europe- migrants-sweden-primeminister-idUKKCN0S30YI20151009) .

I see from your history that you've done this before. [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10095517](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10095517) considers your link to an FT article as "blogspam", because of FT's paywall policies, and instead suggested you link to the original Reuters article. Indeed, I cannot read the FT page you linked to, but I can read the one from Reuters.

So as a suggestion, when you want to link to a Reuters piece in the future, link to the actual Reuters one.

Regarding the topic, we need mandatory quotas for all European countries, now. And the US should feel itself morally obligated to take in many more refugees as well.</comment>


Ask HN: Tools to evaluate scientific claims? - <AUTHOR> What statistical knowledge and training do I need to evaluate the legitimacy of scientific papers, esp. in the medical field?
Whenever I read about any scientific claims, I ignore the press and go straight to the original paper cited (if there is one, often it is misquoted). I then read the abstract and the testing methodology. If I can spot any issues in the methodology I usually stop reading, e.g. small sample size, obvious confounding variable, blatant causation/correlation errors. But if all seems well, that still doesn't tell you if the study's claims match the test results or if the threshold parameters make sense.
Given a basic stats background, how can I obtain a deeper, intuitive understanding  of things like p-values (which seem to be outdated anyway) and other sample sizes. Thanks, HN. <comment><USER2> Get a good book on statistics?

About p-values: they aren't exactly outdated, but they are the subject of a pretty fierce controversy. Many, if not most scientists still use them when doing statistical analyses because they are simple to apply and to understand and provide a quick metric for measuring the significance of a study's results.

Other scientists say that they are _too_ simple and don't convey important information about the actual data (such as the spread). Apparently, there are more modern statistical procedures that do a better job than p-values do. (I'm not a statistician though, so don't ask me what these procedures are...) Also, p-values are all too often subjected to "p-hacking" \- massaging the data until you get a statistically significant result (p <= 0.05). In fact, the very concept of significance is problematic. Originally, the p <= 0.05/0.01/0.005 significance limits were just approximate guidelines to help scientists interpret their data. Nowadays, they are often treated as definite boundaries of "truth". ("If my data gives a p-value of 0.049, the result is significant therefore my hypothesis must be true. If p=0.051, it is not significant, therefore my hypothesis must be wrong - or I must tweak my data until I get p=0.05.") This is obviously nonsense, yet a surprisingly common attitude (though not always as extreme as in my example).

As far as I personally am concerned, the real problem is not the actual p-values as such, but perhaps a lack of understanding of statistics by many scientists. (Coupled with the pressure exerted by journals that only want to publish "significant" results and so indirectly encourage p-hacking.)

<comment><AUTHOR> Can you recommend a good stats book?

<comment><USER2> Sorry, I'm afraid I can't :-/

I got my own statistics knowledge from a lecture series, a book on R, an ecology textbook and various articles...

Check your local university library if you can or google around. I'm sure you'll find something.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Just curious, isn't this kind of basic legitimacy verification supposed to be done by the peer reviewing process? Are scientific journals really publishing papers so obviously illegitimate that laymen with a bit of statistical knowledge can spot obvious errors or problems?

<comment><USER4> Things like a small sample size and confounding variable, doesn't in any way invalidate a paper. Especially in fields where collecting data is difficult (only a small number of people have a certain obscure disease for example, or it's practically impossible to isolate one variable from another) those are simply facts of life that you have to deal with. Sometimes you all you can do is say I only managed to find 4 cases of X, but they all had Y. Was not able to control for Z, still I wasn't expecting that and found it kind of interesting. As long as you aren't faking data (like you actually found 12 cases of X but threw out the ones that didn't fit your conclusion), then that is absolutely worth publishing.

It's always worth getting results out there even if they don't/can't live up to statistical certainty one might hope for. Every paper doesn't have to stand on its own and come to some undeniable ground breaking conclusion. Over time you'll hopefully collect enough published data to be able to do some more statistically powerful and useful meta-studies down the road.

<comment><USER2> Absolutely. Especially in the life sciences it can be very hard to get statistically solid data.

None of which means there isn't a lot of statistics crap floating around, though.</comment></comment></comment>


In 2013 "Year of Linux Desktop" Will Stop Being a Cliché - <AUTHOR> http://www.slashgeek.net/2013/02/13/year-of-linux-desktop/?hn

<comment><USER2> Note that ... "The good news is that Linux is already a dominant player in the mobile market, thanks to android."

Microsoft has been utterly crushed globally by Android in the mobile market, both phone and tablet. And what kernel does Android use? - The Free Software Linux kernel. And who makes code patches now for Linux? - Samsung!

If smartphones are considered as personal computers, then Microsoft is _toast_.</comment>


Healthcare is a competitive disadvantage for the United States - <AUTHOR> http://criticalthinking.tumblr.com/post/37196482515/healthcare-is-a-competitive-disadvantage-for-the-united

<comment><USER2> I thought of this during the last Presidential Election. To create jobs, the USA should offer some kind of non-job-related health insurance. That would free people from having to keep a corporate drone job just because those are the only jobs that have good health insurance these days. Small businesses wouldn't have to worry about health care issues when hiring. I'm sure a number of other follow-effects, not all good, would follow.

Remind me again why the USA doesn't have some kind of nationalized health care? Is this so that MDs can mint money or something?

<comment><USER3> It's probably because we think "socialized" anything is a dirty word. And because we are a young country with a lot of stupid ideas.

It's complicated, I am sure.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I find the cognitive dissonance of Americans commenting on such things while still claiming silly titles like "the greatest country in the world" fascinating.

This one has a "besides Canada" footnote disclaimer. Why, because Canada does have a decent health care system? Sort of like... almost every single other first world nation except the USA?

<comment><AUTHOR> A bit of an explanation.. I wrote this and I'm a Canadian (living in the US). Hence the tongue-in-cheek footnote.</comment></comment>


Pipeable Ruby - forget about grep / sed / awk / wc ...  - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/grosser/pru <comment><USER2> Very nice indeed, but I think a lot of the appeal with grep/sed/awk/wc/etc. is a. they are (somewhat, with irritating differences in some cases) cross- platform and available in every unix-y environment and b. people are simply very used to them, not to mention that there are going to be circumstances where a single interpreter reading a command is not going to be as succinct/powerful/flexible as a series of piped commands. As an alternative to perl -pe it is very interesting indeed.

</comment><comment><USER3>
      # grep --- all lines including current date
      ls -al | ???
      ls -al | pru 'include?(Time.now.strftime("%Y-%m-%d"))'

Unless I'm missing something, that would be:

      ls -al | grep `date +"%Y-%m-%d"`

<comment><USER4> This works too:

        ls -al | grep $(date +%Y-%m-%d)

<comment><USER5> This particular example can even be shorter:

        ls -al | grep $(date +%F)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Admittedly a nice tool for ruby users. But for 'grep/sed/awk' users? Forget and learn a new syntax?

I don't quite see the benefit of pru from the examples for 'grep/sed/awk' users, memory and speed issues put aside.

Even the 'number of files by date' can be realized with, eg., awk:

      ls -al |awk '{++a[$6]} END {for (i in a) printf "%s: %d\n", i, a[i]}'

</comment><comment><USER7> "forget about classic unix filters that have been used for 30 years"

no thanks, link-bait!

</comment><comment><USER8> a few years ago, i proposed a -x switch to ruby that would run a "puts $_.instance_eval { ... }" over each line of ARGF, but matz didn't care for it. wouldn't have done as much as pru does, but it would have had the advantage of being available by default with just a standard ruby install.

</comment><comment><USER9> Very cool - but never ever ever forget about grep/sed/awk/wc...

</comment><comment><USER10> I think the consensus is, a neat project and perhaps will be adopted by some but not a replacement for the tools that have been crafted and tuned over years.

</comment><comment><USER11> A nice property of grep is that it's fast. I'd like to know how this compares on the speed front

<comment><USER12> Probably not even close. ([http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd- current/2010-Augu...](http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd- current/2010-August/019310.html))

grep/sed/awk are highly specialized programs optimized to do one thing very well.

A tool like this one might pick for reasons other than performance perhaps (maybe you're a Ruby programmer and can't grok grep/sed/awk?)

<comment><USER13> Most people these days have a utf8 locale; basically nothing from that email applies when that is the case, and grep runs much slower.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I though Ruby was an answer to Perl but yet it does not support the equivalent of "perl -pe"? Or did I miss something?

<comment><USER15> Many people (including Matz) discourage Ruby's Perlisms (or Perlish roots?), but at least for now, they're still there. (I say at least for now because Matz has said that they may go away at some point.)

Check _man ruby_ and you'll see familiar (if you're used to Perl one-liners) command-line switches: -p, -l, -n, -F, -a, -i and so on.

See also here for some familiar friends: <http://www.zenspider.com/Languages/Ruby/QuickRef.html#19>

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> One could consider PyLine to be the Python equivalent to Pipeable Ruby:

[http://code.activestate.com/recipes/437932-pyline-a-grep- lik...](http://code.activestate.com/recipes/437932-pyline-a-grep-like-sed- like-command-line-tool/)

Or funcpy:

<http://www.pixelbeat.org/scripts/funcpy>

<comment><USER17> Also check Pyliner: [http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577075-pyliner- script-to...](http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577075-pyliner-script-to- run-arbitrary-python-code-on-the/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Seriously? People still do this?

      ps -ef | grep foo | grep -v grep

This always works:

      ps -ef | grep '[f]oo'

And, if you're running a modern operating system:

      pgrep foo

<comment><USER19> I use both, but 'grep -v grep' is far easier to type.

And I almost always want the full ps output, or I'm searching for a commandline argument rather than the process name, so pgrep is out.

<comment><USER18>
      function psg () { [[ -z "$1" ]] && return ; local _first=${1:0:1} ; local _rest=${1:1} ; [[ -z "$_rest" ]] && _rest='[^]]' ; local _com="ps -ef | grep '[$_first]'$_rest" ; eval "$_com" }

<comment><USER19> Wow, that's certainly one way to do it. I'm still not seeing an issue with 'grep -v grep'.

<comment><USER18>
      ps -ef | grep foo | grep -v grep

Will fail if foo="grep"

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Funny, just yesterday I was wondering what a shell would look like if it was an interpreter for a modern language. The important thing about the commands is the composition, not the language they are embedded in.

I think to make something as instantly usable as the the shell is quite hard, but to make an environment that is suitable for harder tasks that just get messy in the shell in a better language, but which still inherits a shell like way of doing things could be an interesting project.

<comment><USER21> This is not that kind of shell. "Pipeable Ruby" does mostly the same as the "perl -pe" switch with some additional syntactical shortcuts

</comment></comment><comment><USER22>
      # seq $((2**32)) | pru "/find me/" >/dev/null
      gems/pru-0.1.3/lib/pru.rb:13:in `[]': failed to allocate memory (NoMemoryError)

Guess I'll try to not forget about grep and sed just yet...

<comment><USER18> Out of curiosity, I tried this and it worked fine:

      seq $((2**32)) | perl -ne '/find me/ && print'

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> There isn't much of a point to this because it doesn't change the fundamental type of data that is being piped around. You're still dealing with strings or lists of strings. The advantage of something like PowerShell, an OS built on Common Lisp, or SmallTalk is that objects can be passed around rather than just strings.

</comment><comment><USER24> Similar project for C++: <http://github.com/lvv/scc>

<comment><USER24>
      # --- print second column
      ls -al | awk '{print $2}'
      ls -al | pru 'split(" ")[1]'
      ls -al | scc -n 'F(1)'

      # --- count and average of all integers on second position
      ls -al | awk '{ s += $2; } END {print "average" ,int(s/NR);print "count ",int(NR)}'
      ls -al | pru 'split(" ")[1]' '"average #{mean(&:to_i)}\ncount #{size}"'
      ls -al | scc 'int c=0; WRL c+=F(1); FMT("average %s\ncount %s") %(c/NR) %NR'

      # --- count lines
      ls -al | wc -l
      ls -al | pru -r 'size'
      ls -al | scc 'WRL;NR+1'

      # -- replace a 5 with five
      ls -al | sed 's/5/five/'
      ls -al | pru 'gsub(/5/,"five")'
      ls -al | scc -n 'RR(line,R("5"),"five")'

      # every second line
      ls -al | pru 'i % 2 == 0'
      ls -al | scc -n 'NR % 2 ? line : ""'

      # sum up df's used-space column
      df | awk '{n+=$3;};  END{print n}'
      df | pru  ?????
      df | scc 'int n=0; WRL n+=F(2); n'

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> How fast is it?

<comment><USER26> A valid question, but a counter-question is: which is more expensive: development time, or run time?

The answer is usually (but not always) developer time.

<comment><USER25> I'm using grep/awk/sed all day long, I need never more than 10 seconds to build a command group...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Interesting tool, but not really a replacement. Most of the examples can be written much more simply with grep/sed/awk, etc.

</comment><comment><USER28> No, I don't want to forget about no damn grep, sed, and the like.</comment>


Ask HN: Cheap way to drive 2x 4K displays? - <AUTHOR>

I bought 2 4K displays on Black Friday to replace my existing 1080p displays.
My current card doesn't support 4K. However, even the really expensive cards only have one displayport output. I don't do much gaming on this machine and just use it for work (web apps development etc), however I don't want absolutely terrible 3D performance.
Any recommendations of a way to get both monitors driven at 60Hz? I can see options for doing it at 30Hz but not both at 60Hz. I'm surprised this is such a complicated thing to do considering 4K displays are so cheap now. <comment><USER2> [http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129...](http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129274&nm_mc=KNC- GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Desktop+Graphics+Cards- _-N82E16814129274&gclid=Cj0KEQiAwPCjBRDZp9LWno3p7rEBEiQAGj3KJi5GXaB63N26T8vlpqkw08Mma3Mr8ChyeG3it0TXaesaAiZC8P8HAQ)

[http://www.amd.com/en- us/products/graphics/desktop/7000/7700](http://www.amd.com/en- us/products/graphics/desktop/7000/7700)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! Very helpful.

Edit: it turns out the newer gen cards all drop the 2nd display port. I'm having trouble finding stock on these cards at non-comical prices.

<comment><USER2> I wish AMD comes out with an APU motherboard with 4 displayports.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Bottom of what's usable would probably be the GTX 770 bump it up to the 4G vram model and you'll be fine.

<comment><AUTHOR> I can't see any GTX 770 cards with 2x DP output though. If you run them through HDMI the refresh rate on 4K is capped at 30Hz which totally ruins the point of spending extra on a graphics card.</comment></comment>


Meet Model X - <AUTHOR> http://www.teslamotors.com/modelx <comment><USER2> Okay.. I'm a Model S owner and I love Tesla and I chuckled at the whole Insane mode and gave a bit of an amused snort at Ludicrous mode.

This, however, really makes me wonder WTH is going on there:

HEPA Air Filters "There are three modes: circulate with outside air, re- circulate inside air and a _bioweapon defense mode that creates positive pressure inside the cabin to protect occupants_."

EDIT: Very fair points about driving by skunks or nasty smells. The naming is what gets me though. If it was called Noxious Smell Defense Mode or something, that would make perfect sense. Looking at Wikipedia, a "medical grade HEPA filter" can filter out 99.97% of particles at least 0.3 micrometers in diameter. Dunno if the Tesla filters are also using UV irradiation, and I also couldn't find any documentation of the particulate size of skunk odor, so it will be interesting to see documentation on what exactly it can filter out.

EDIT2: Watched a bit of the intro event video. Looks like it has a specific set of activated charcoal filters for sulfur type particulates, so certainly seems like it could be a skunk odor killer. :)

<comment><USER3> > bioweapon defense mode that creates positive pressure inside the cabin to > protect occupants

Ever drove past a skunk corpse ? Only happened to me a few times when I traveled in the USA - still have PTSD...

<comment><USER4> " To qualify as HEPA by US government standards, an air filter must remove (from the air that passes through) 99.97% of particles that have a size of 0.3 µm."

That means bacteria (1-10 µm) and spores (~1 µm) but not virusses (~ 100 nm +/\- a lot) and certainly not molecules emitted by a skunk corpse.

<comment><USER5> Its activated charcoal filter has the primary layer, a secondary layer that filters sulfur gases, and a tertiary layer that filters alkaline gases.

Skunk spray is made primarily of thiols and their acetate derivatives. Thiols (the main ugly smelling ones are both thiols) are organosulfur compounds, and would be filtered by the secondary chemical filter.

The gases that make the decaying corpse smell are acidic (AFAIK), so would be filtered by the tertiary layer.

<comment><USER4> Ah, I didn't catch that, good comment.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> > $132,000 for the P90D Signature and $142,000 for the P90D Founder edition > [0]

[0]: [http://www.engadget.com/2015/09/30/tesla-model-x-electric- su...](http://www.engadget.com/2015/09/30/tesla-model-x-electric-suv-luanch- price/)

<comment><USER7> That is pretty amazing pricing. Most premium families would be looking to the Land Rover Evoque ($41K), BMW X5 ($54K) etc But Tesla is pricing it not to compete with the baseline Porsche Cayenne ($58K) but around the Cayenne Turbo S level ($157K). I guess they aren't planning on building a lot of them.

<comment><USER8> > premium families

For a second I thought you are referring to 'premium family' as some kind of a social category.

<comment><USER9> Of course he is, where I live in the US 142k could buy you a nice 1400 square foot house.

<comment><USER10> I wish I could buy a nice 1400 square foot house where I live.

<comment><USER11> In central London that buys you .. a garage.

<comment><USER12> It wouldn't buy you a fifth of a garage: [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2813958/Tiny-shed- pa...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2813958/Tiny-shed-patch- scrubland-tucked-row-terraced-houses-sold-550-000-s-three-times-average-price- home.html)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Roughly estimated carbon production of manufacturing (I got these numbers from a german discussion, one source for battery carbon production is: [http://www.focus.de/auto/experten/duennes/oekobilanz-von- ele...](http://www.focus.de/auto/experten/duennes/oekobilanz-von-elektroautos- besser-als-benzin-oder-oekologisches-feigenblatt-so-sauber-ist-ein- elektroauto-wirklich_id_4914399.html) ):

\</comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment>

VW Polo GTI: 2 tons

BMW M5: 2,5 tons

BMW I3: 4 tons

Tesla Modell X 13 tons

Manufacturing + 100.000km:

\</comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment>--

BMW I3 -> 9,6 tons

VW Polo GTI -> 18,6 tons

Tesla Modell X -> 25,3 tons

BMW M5 -> 26,3 tons

Tesla isn't as green as many think. Building heavy cars isn't the solution.

Also the new infrastructure for superchargers does raise carbon production.

<comment><USER14> It's not fair to compare the Model X to a Sedan. Do you have numbers for other SUVs? Remember the idea here is that it's assumed you'll be buying a car already.

Also, even if the total lifetime carbon was equal, it's still better to buy a vehicle that produces all that carbon in localized places where it could possibly be captured instead of all over crowded urban areas.

<comment><USER13> I just want to mention some facts. EVs are interesting and the future for sure but thinking EVs are the holy grail is just stupid.

[http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/hold-smugness-tesla- might-...](http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/hold-smugness-tesla-might-just- worse-environment-know/)

How do you can capture carbon?

<comment><USER15> I think what jedberg meant was that if you are producing the electricity at a centralized place (like even a coal-fired power plant) you could theoretically capture carbon using massive scrubbers on the exhaust towers. Developing similar technology and installing it in all of the individual gas-burning cars would be near impossible.

My 2c: The real "secret plan" here is that converting us to electric vehicles paves the way to develop (and creates structural demand for) 0-emission ways to recharge them, like:

\- resurgence of large nuclear plants

\- self-contained micro-nuclear reactors that you could bury in your yard

\- solar on your garage (paired with a Tesla Powerwall to recharge your car at night)

<comment><USER13> These 'scrubbers' and nuclear plants are already in my calculations of battery manufacturing C02 production. Base of the CO2 production calculation is the energy mix of germany. In the US it would be even higher(?).

Source is an independent german energy research institute btw.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I look at all the little motors in those doors, and other robotic gadgets, and just see reliability issues. Their 8-year warranty on the drivetrain is great, but you are still stuck if the rest of the car doesn't work. I guess it's a fact of life now that cars, especially high-end cars, are not really built for more than two lease-lengths now. So how much embodied energy does that represent? Has anyone seen a full-lifecycle analysis of Tesla cars? Probably no worse than other luxury cars, but still.

<comment><USER17> Rest of the car has a 4 year warranty that can be extended to 8 years (at least thats how it works on the Model S)

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> "Model X is the safest, fastest and most capable sport utility vehicle in history."

From any other company I would roll my eyes at the ridiculous hyperbole. Here, it's probably just a statement of fact.

<comment><USER19> Safest and fastest seem possible, but I'm rather doubting its off road capabilities. Unless of course being capable of driving off road isn't something we expect from an SUV these days.

<comment><USER7> You can tell from the photos you won't be taking this off road.

It's more akin to a people mover with the 7 seat option and the ground clearance being limited. If you look at the most popular SUVs i.e. BMW X3/5, Mercedes M, Land Rover they have a lineage in proper 4WDs.

But let's be honest almost nobody who drives an SUV actually takes it off road.

<comment><USER20> Right. SUVs in this category are going after the need-a-van-but-want-a- sportcar market.

<comment><USER21> The irony is that a van will often handle better than a SUV with a car based platform and a lower center of gravity.

My wife has a BMW X5 and it drives like a piece of industrial farm equipment. We also own a Honda Odyssey which IMO handles significantly better - it's basically an Accord with a taller roof.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Those jeering idiots in the audience are so cringe-y. There is no need to cheer at literally everything Musk says. For example, showing you can get into the car is something I would expect.

<comment><USER23> Funniest part was when he talks about creating a new ultrasonic sensor that works through metal -- silence. You can see Elon sorta motion as in "hey... this was a bigger accomplishment than the seat design" but no one really catches on.

Reminds me of the Apple launch event for ApplePay where the presenter showed the current "bad" way of paying with cards. The crowd went wild and he sorta looked at them like "uh, that was the bad scenario... don't clap."

<comment><USER22> I think the people were clapping because they agreed that it was an annoying way to pay.

[https://youtu.be/0pmwR1SrK-Q?t=2648](https://youtu.be/0pmwR1SrK-Q?t=2648)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> [http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/midas/ee4d25fc09c13298fde2d6...](http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/midas/ee4d25fc09c13298fde2d68e881513fa/202724231/modex.gif)

I'm glad this is a car that Russ would like.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJIAOosI6js](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJIAOosI6js)

</comment><comment><USER25> Doors that open like THIS - not like this!

<comment><USER26> I see what you did there ;)

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> >> 5,000lb towing capacity

Curious as to what happens to the range when you're towing a pair of jetskis.

<comment><USER28> Ski resorts already need access to some heavy electricity (ski lifts), I wouldn't be surprised if they would start offering chargers for electric cars in the near future.

<comment><USER29> Umm, jetskis aren't really for use at ski resorts.

<comment><USER30> Says you, they make decent bobsleds with enough powder on the ground.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Cool as this is, the only thing that sketches me out is the "automatic braking" feature. If I go to avoid something and it slams on the brakes, isn't that going to totally change my trajectory possibly causing an accident? Or a false positive causing heavy braking which someone could be surprised by and overcorrect for causing an accident?

<comment><USER32> My Volvo does this. Not sure if it's the same thing, but stops you if you're about to collide with something. I've never experienced it (as I've never yet needed the feature), but have heard good things. Here's a really impressive video of it in action on a semi-truck:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ridS396W2BY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ridS396W2BY)

Counterpoint (with the model I have, unfortunately):

[http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/self-braking-volvo- fai...](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/self-braking-volvo-fails-test- drive-slams-onlookers-article-1.2238171)

<comment><USER33> Volvo claimed that the driver hadn't paid for the pedestrian detection upgrade which costs an extra $3,000. That said, it seems like a feature that shouldn't be confusing as to whether your car has it or not. But then again, its not a feature that non-professionals should be testing/showing off on living beings...

<comment><USER34> That video has been shown many so times and debunked equally many times. If you know how it looks like, it's obvious from the video that the car does not have the system installed, you should be able to see a small plastic box-like shape embedded in the grill which is one of the sensors, they blend in but if you know what to look for you do see them easily.

Whether installed or not, testing a safety-net feature like this qualifies for darwin awards.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> What happened at the start of the presentation when Musk was just about to start talking about safety features when suddenly, quietly, and slowly, a Model X drove up onto the stage. A random guy stepped out, left the door open, and handed Musk the keys.

Musk: "..Right, so about those safety features."

Did the guy go up to early? Or was he late? Or was that planned? So confused...

</comment><comment><USER36> The 'bioweapon defense mode' is great naming. Gets fantastic PR and consumers know that Tesla's air is market leader.

When was the last time that a car's air filtering for so much good PR and became a unique selling point?

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I love the falcon wing doors but what about when it's raining? That might be a stupid question but...

<comment><USER37> also what about when someone parks too close to you? Malls, for instance, put parking spaces tightly next to each other, so either you park like an asshole diagonally across two of them, or run the risk of someone else parking just a little bit too close to you and then your doors can't open, whereas in a standard vehicle, you'd be able to squeeze in. They should have made them slide laterally like on a minivan.

<comment><USER38> The site says the minimum distance required is about a foot which is reasonable given that the protruding rear view mirrors would be close to half of that.

<comment><USER39> I certainly cannot get out of either of my cars with just 12 inches of space. The door thickness alone in around 6 inches. No way is my body squeezing through a 6 inch opening in anything short of an emergency and it's very unlikely even then.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> If it's an "SUV" where do I strap my kayak and bike?

Mercedes did it better in 1955.

<comment><USER41> It can tow 5000 pounds - maybe stick the kayak on a small trailer? Or, if you can afford a Model X, buy a used Subaru just for your kayak.

<comment><USER42> Trailers are a real pain to deal with. A lot of SUVs really aren't but this is an extreme case. I find it a bit ridiculous to call a vehicle an "SUV" if you can't put a roof-rack on.

<comment><USER43> Eh, SUVs are the new minivan and everyone knows it. If you really want to strap a kayak to the top, buy a car with a roof rack regardless of what it's called.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> All it takes is a billionaire genius with twin kids and a car company to finally engineer a real solution to the hassle of having room to put kids in the car seats.

I sure hope some of these ideas come in a slightly more affordable version. Amazing how many of the innovations are just everyday things like crash safety, air quality, blind holster your phone, trailer hitch that doesn't suck, and easier to get kids in their car seats - yet they have me drooling as even after 100+ years of mass auto production there are so many daily frustrations with cars.

<comment><USER41> In all seriousness, how does the Model X improve buckling your kids over a sliding minivan door? Never had trouble with this, I've owned a car, truck, SUV and minivan with young kids.

Biggest headache? The kids buckling themselves. The seatbelt always locks (they pull too fast), the buckles get smushed into the seat bench, and before you know it I have exited the car, just to help them put it altogether.

<comment><USER15> Out of curiosity, how tall are you? I think he said a big part of the problem with minivans is that you can hit your head on the roof while trying to lean in to snap the buckles. With the falcon wing doors, the roof flips up too. Obviously if you are blessed to be average height, that may not be a problem for you.

As a tall person, I am excited that Elon is tall and getting them to consider the problems of not being average height =)

<comment><USER41> 73 inches - owned a 2006 Honda Odyssey, don't remember bashing my head ...or maybe I did and can't remember because of said bashing.

Most everything in my world was designed for someone 3-4 inches shorter than I. I kid with my wife if I ever build my own house (post kids), everything will be taller.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> I am confused by the fancy doors. The driver door seems to open as usual, no? Doesn't that mean that in a tight space I am no better off than with a regular door ?

</comment><comment><USER46> How is that an SUV?

<comment><USER43> "SUV" doesn't mean anything specific. Look around you on the road: SUVs are the new minivans. People buying new cars today grew up in minivans, and the last thing you want to drive is the thing your mom drove. Give it another 20 years and I bet we see the minivan come back in style as kids growing up with SUVs now think of them as the soccer-mom-mobiles that they are.

<comment><USER47> It is a marketing term that means "we're going to sell you something you'll probably think of as a big car, but which only has to meet light truck standards". There was a time when something like a Jimmy or a Bronco was distinctly downmarket and likely to have utilitarian rubber floor mats rather than carpeting. (Yes, there were some "gentlemanly" vehicles in the general class, like the Range Rover and the Wagoneer, but most were all business.) CAFE regulations didn't include trucks, so we were sold trucks instead of cars. Now people want trucks that look like cars from the inside.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> The first thing I notice is the seats.

The same very, very unadjustable, very sparse seats that the model S has. I won't provide reference [1][2][3]'s here, but there are absolutely much, much better seats with many more adjustments available in the lower end 3 series / A4 / C class cars ... and this is a car with a 6 figure price tag.

The seats. I have never understood the seats in the model S (and now X).

edit: OK, so another thing ... the stick-on spoiler has always annoyed me on the model S. Very cheap and lame. I see that the new Model X has a retractable spoiler ... when will that arrive on the Model S ?

</comment><comment><USER49> Model S owner here. Love the new X but two things disappoint, in terms of design: the new front-end is ugly, especially the white version of the car. And the long straight wire that runs from the top of the car to the auto-pilot hardware and rear-view mirror, planted in the middle of the windshield's sea of glass, is hideous. I can't believe Elon let that slide. Jobs would never in a million years have allowed that stupid wire to obstruct the view. Worst case, hair-thin electric conductors embedded in the glass, something. But that wire's got to go.

</comment><comment><USER50> Really like the car. Just a tad concerned that the huge front window will break/shatter a lot if you hit some debree (or there is just a lot of junk on the roads where I live).

</comment><comment><USER51> I'm mostly wondering if you can open the falcon doors by hand or if it has to be done by computer. Seems kind of slow to me. Not to mention emergency situations.

</comment><comment><USER52> If I had a family, and disposable income, this would definitely be my vehicle of choice. That said, I liked this bit: "There are three modes: circulate with outside air, re-circulate inside air and a bioweapon defense mode that creates positive pressure inside the cabin to protect occupants."

Funny regardless, but insane if true.

<comment><USER53> Warships and armoured vehicles have used internal overpressure since the 1950s, it's a basic aspect of NBC defence. And it was one of the reasons NATO warships were so sparsely equipped with portholes, no point having overpressure if Seaman Jones can leave a window open.

Anyway, it really shows to me what a completely pointless vehicle this is. Yes it's a technical tour-de-force, but it does nothing to move EV adoption forward. The people buying it will primarily be existing Tesla or Cayenne Turbo owners, not lower-middle-class wage-commuters who produce our daily pollution. Only slightly more useful than car-show concept vehicles in that regard.

If Tesla were to attack the low-end, where the majority of car sales occur, then I'd pay attention. But the proft margins are razor-thin there. Low-end being Fiesta / Polo territory, looks like we'll have to wait for the Chinese manufacturers to move in there.

<comment><USER54> > If Tesla were to attack the low-end, where the majority of car sales occur, > then I'd pay attention.

Then you are not paying attention. Tesla strategy is to start at the top, with higher margins and lower volumes (meaning lower costs) and gradually move down. According to Musk the Model 3 will be available next year and cost $35k.

<comment><USER55> Not sure they can deliver. Their house-battery product was relatively cheap. But it was also ill-conceived and impractical. Largely because of capacity. It was more of a UPS than a house-power-plant, because of the extremely limited time it could run the whole house.

Consider: a large fraction of the Tesla car cost is the battery and associated systems. There's a minimum range that's considered acceptable, and even their current models barely achieve that. Using smaller/cheaper batteries to make the car cheaper will violate the minimum-range requirement. No-win here, so far.

<comment><USER54> Perhaps, but both the Model S and the Model X are very heavy cars. I guess there are possible savings there.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER56> Man, this looks awesome as fuck, if only I had money for something like this

</comment><comment><USER57> I don't think I can open those falcon doors when parked inside my garage. Which is a pity because it is damn cold in Canada half the year.

<comment><USER58> The doors actuate on two hinges and have sonar to detect both horizontal and vertical clearance during all movements. They will adapt to both low ceilings and low side clearances, and need only about a foot of space on either side of your car to open. In the video, Musk talks about garages with small ceilings and then shows a video of the doors opening in one. If there's enough space for you to pull in and get out of your car now, there's almost surely enough space to open the doors in this one too.

<comment><USER59> I wonder how they adapt to having snow on the roof.

<comment><USER60> Are you driving your car with a large mass of snow on the roof? Please don't, it's dangerous.

<comment><USER59> I don't, but I see many people who do.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER61> I thought SUV's had larger rims than standard cars, they look the same as the model S , Any information available?

<comment><USER62> The Model S already has unusually large wheels for a sedan

</comment></comment><comment><USER63> I guess Tesla isn't going to get around to making a car that normal people can afford anytime soon, then.

<comment><USER64> They already announced it. It's called the Model 3.

From Elon Musk's Twitter: @elonmusk $35k price, unveil in March, preorders start then.

<comment><USER63> 35k is not something normal people can afford.

<comment><USER65> The average new car price is $33,560:

[http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/05/04/new- car-...](http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/05/04/new-car- transaction-price-3-kbb-kelley-blue-book/26690191/)

$35,000 should be a pretty great deal for an above-average car that uses inexpensive fuel and requires little maintenance.

<comment><USER63> Normal people don't all buy new cars, and they don't buy the average new car. They either buy used or they buy an entry-level new car, say in the 25k range at most. You can get a freaking Audi for 35k. Audis are not entry-level cars for normal people, they are luxury cars.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER66> Are there any advantages to the gullwing doors compared to sliding doors other than "sliding doors aren't cool"? They say "minivan style sliding doors open at most halfway", but there are plenty of minivan doors that open quite wide.

<comment><USER67> It should give more clearence for getting into the car; and better access to the third row

<comment><USER66> Looking at the video, it's quite clear that accessing the third row of a full size minivan is quite a bit easier than accessing the third row of a Model X.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER68> What is the pricing? Also does anyone know what the gross weight is?

</comment><comment><USER13> Can anyone explain me why Tesla as a silicon valley company is lagging behind in autonomus driving? BMW, Daimler and many more have already working things in much cheaper cars.

Edit: can't understand the down voting. Criticizing Tesla isn't endorsed here?

<comment><USER69> Explain how they're lagging? They have v7 of the software in beta testers hands and the auto pilot features are a step above all other manufacturers.

<comment><USER13> As i mentioned there are many car makers which have these things since years. And they are much cheaper. Just look at the websites what you can buy from BMW, Daimler etc.

<comment><USER54> Because they also have cars for much longer too?

Tesla had (and has) to solve a difficult problem. The manufacturers you mention are all using standard internal combustion engines. Is it surprising that the can focus their attention elsewhere?

<comment><USER13> I think autonomous driving is first priority for Tesla. So I wonder.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER70> price? what is the price? how come they don't have the price on the web page? is it secret? is it "if you have to ask ..."?

</comment><comment><USER71> Now those are the doors of a billionaire.

<comment><USER72> Does it come with a free bottle of Tres Commas?

</comment></comment><comment><USER73> Pretty cool station wagon.

</comment><comment><USER74> Tony Stark strikes again! Worth noting that no emission 'issues' are expected ...

</comment><comment><USER75> how tall/wide does your garage have to be?

<comment><USER76> That's the thing that first came to mind when I saw the pics of those doors opening... sure they look cool, and probably work ok if you're outside away from anything, but seems like there are plenty of situations in which they just wouldn't have the space to open enough to allow exiting (at least without crawling on the ground).

Examples might be a small garage or a parking space hemmed in by other vehicles.

Sliding doors take almost no extra space to open fully, and even normal swing doors can be used when partially open (the exact degree of course depends on how skinny you are...).

<comment><USER58> The video shows it opening when parked so closely to two vehicles that a person can barely squeeze through, and when parked in a garage with a low ceiling. One of the cars they parked it next to is a minivan with sliding doors, which you couldn't get into when open, while you could get into the X. As Elon puts it, paraphrasing, "this is the best aperture possible".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER77> Gull-wing doors!!

</comment><comment><USER78> Great, bioweapon defense mode so the Masters of the Universe can all hop in their cars and safely leave a big city under bioweapons attack, while the rest of us lie gasping on the sidewalk...

<comment><USER79> Bioweapon defense mode in luxury vehicles is the first step towards bioweapon defense mode in commodity vehicles.

Also, it's really for polluted cities, skunks, and driving past freshly fertilized farms. I don't think anyone expects to active bwdm for an actual bioweapon threat.

</comment></comment><comment><USER80> Now _everyone_ will have gull-wing doors.

</comment><comment><USER81> fugly

</comment><comment><USER82> shutupandtakemymoney

</comment><comment><USER83> Seven seats car seems to address a very small niche.

<comment><USER84> Most SUVs are seven seaters. Even most minivan's are now 7 seater.

<comment><USER42> "Most" is a bit of an overstatement. (Fortunately) many SUVs still don't have third-row seating. To be honest, I find the shift from minivans--which do a much better job of seating a bunch of people--to SUVs that consume a lot of interior space with seats a bit unfortunate.

<comment><USER84> "Most" as in the direct competition to the Model X. Yes, some manufacturers have large 8 seaters (Yukon, QX56, Pilot, Sequoia) but those are all massive vehicles and I don't think the Model X is competing with those. I think the competition is the smaller SUVs such as the Q7, SRX, MDX,GX, X5, GL550, and XC90, all of which are 7 seaters.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER85> Sweet if I start saving now I'll be able to afford one in 10 years!

</comment><comment><USER86> I can't wait to see how well they do in the Paris-Dakar Rally, because of course they'll back up all their hype by going out and handily beating the competition, just like the Tesla Model S completely dominated Touring Car racing and showed the GT class at Le Mans what innovation is all about. /s

<comment><USER87> Not exactly the intended use case, though, is it? Do you expect your mother to play NFL football? No? Not everything is built to compete.

<comment><USER86> What I'm talking about is the long-running automotive tradition - a useful one - of subjecting an automobile to competition by which to identify weaknesses, opportunities for improvement, and publicly showing that the vehicle is capable of rising above every-day use scenarios through its engineering prowess.

Using your logic, why is Aston Martin in GT / ALMS racing? Why is Mercedes Benz in F1 racing? Why is Volkswagen in off-road racing?

The list goes on and on and on. The only time Tesla has gotten to a podium is because Elon Musk paid for it to be there for the press. I suppose it makes sense not to take Tesla endurance racing, because it'd be embarassing.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER88> So with the falcon wing doors you couldn't open up passenger seats in your standard garage. I'd suspect people who could afford this wouldn't have a standard garage anyways though.

<comment><USER89> A standard garage seems to have quite a bit over two meters in height, which should be enough to open the doors. They also have sensors and adapt both hinges to obstacles next to and above the car.</comment></comment>


Our Discovery of Cramming (2017) - <AUTHOR> https://blog.twitter.com/engineering/en_us/topics/insights/2017/Our-Discovery-of-Cramming.html <comment><USER2> > Currently, a certain range of Unicode blocks, including Basic Latin, are > counted half as much as other blocks, such as CJK Unified Ideographs.

Has anyone made a Twitter clone where the "character limit" is simply a limit in the message's UTF-8 byte size? Seems like approximately where they ended up anyway. (Except, I guess, with Emoji being unwontedly cheap.)

<comment><USER3> Expensive, I guess you mean.

<comment><USER2> Nah, I meant that Twitter's current logic is like counting UTF8 bytes, but that they Twitter's scheme gives an emoji codepoint a cost of 1, whereas it "should" have a cost of 4.

<comment><USER3> Ah, got ya.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


The #1 UX Failure of New Products - <AUTHOR> http://www.stephaniehay.com/the-1-ux-failure-of-new-products/

<comment><USER2> Agreed completely. Not showing or telling a first time user in clear, concise language why the $&*% they're on the site is a great way to have a sky high bounce rate. If you worry about boring existing users employ tools like "don't show this again" buttons, cookies to know when they're returning users and present them their dashboard(tumblr does this very well) etc but don't alienate first time visitors if you want new users.

<comment><AUTHOR> YES, exactly! Perfectly said.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Great point. I see so many sites making this mistake. If you have cool functionality or content that you can show without a login then show it right away! If I can't figure out if I like it within 20 seconds, then I'll probably leave.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> A buddy of mine suggested I post to HN, so here goes. I'd love to hear your thoughts -- or other examples of new products that had/have a UX optimized for the first-timer...

<comment><USER4> Hardware makers seem to have come around to this idea. Apple is obviously strong. I think the experience of getting a Kindle in mail that is already set up with your Amazon account is pretty great. I was a fan of the first time experience of the Doxie scanner as well. Simple, informative and cute/stylized.

For software, I was impressed with Ableton live. It would be a very daunting app to learn without built in tutorials and a module in the bottom left of the app that gives a great explanation of anything you roll over. Adobe sucks at this stuff, but they are the industry standard, so people slog through it. 3D modeling software could also benefit from some first timer love.

<comment><AUTHOR> Great points re: hardware (especially Doxie, which took scanning to a friendly, one-button experience). I'll check out Ableton live. Thanks!</comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: my 1st web app, a p2p rental marketplace. Thoughts? - <AUTHOR> https://www.rentything.com/

<comment> j-m-o I have no idea whether your business case is sound or not - it looks cool, so best of luck.

Your call to action button is hidden in the bottom right, well below the fold. I'd recommend hiding the main form completely on the landing page and replacing it with that. Use A/B testing to see for sure, but in general, 1 easy button = conversions.

The layout and design flow look great, though I'd drop the 'PlaceIt Screenshot' byline with something else, even though they're super useful ;). Ideally if you can get a video in there, that'd be excellent, but I know that gets pricey...

I'm also in the 1st webapp startup boat, and as a fellow Canadian, I wish you best of luck! You can check out my startup at <http://wwww.tryringo.com>

Good luck!

<comment><AUTHOR> thanks for the feedback and the well wishes. Do you have any suggestions for A/B testing tools? Everything that is on the landing page is deliberate (except the PlaceIt byline, which I hope to replace with a real photo) but haven't been testing landing pages like I should be.

Ringo looks cool. Interesting that you put the Terms and Privacy in the header navigation. I don't think I have seen that before. Any reason in particular why?

</comment></comment><comment><USER2> Super impressive for a first web app. can you tell us a little about the stack and what resources you used to get it going?

<comment><AUTHOR> wow, thanks for the kind words! Stack, sure:

The back end I am using Yii only because I played with PHP years and years ago. As for as PHP goes, Yii has been a joy to work with, but I am definitely weening myself off of PHP for my next project(s). I use MySQL as the db, and hosting is on AWS (SES, EC2, ELB, S3, and so on).

As for front end. I am using backbone w/ marionette. Very awesome combination but I think I'll move away from backbone going forward. Analytics I use segment.io, payments I'm using Stripe Connect, and Bootstrap as the UI toolkit. I think that's it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Looks cool! How do you compare against say craigslist ?

<comment><AUTHOR> thanks. How do I compare? hmmm, good question. Aside from being completely irrelevant compared to them in size, I guess with craigslist you are anonymous and dealing with the other side which is also anonymous, but here that would not be allowed. Both parties are required to have some form of verification.

There is a trust system which encourages users to get more verified and to participate more in the community, which further builds trust. I'd like to continue to add trust cues, such as integration with trustcloud and other services eventually.

tl;dr: trust is important on Rentything and not so much on craigslist.</comment></comment>


I put all my personal data on eBay - <AUTHOR> http://olifro.st/blog/data-on-ebay/ <comment><USER2> Context: this fellow (Oli Frost) is something of a social media satirist, having previously built LifeFaker ([http://lifefaker.com/](http://lifefaker.com/), a place to buy your way to Instagram fame), and Flopstarter ([http://flopstarter.com/](http://flopstarter.com/), a Kickstarter clone for terrible ideas).

I found the latest idea pretty funny - actually trying to monetize your data instead of letting companies do it for you is kind of a cute turnabout. In any case, please do view this project as an artistic endeavour - a work of satire.

<comment><USER3> There are a couple companies that are working in that space:

[https://datacoup.com/](https://datacoup.com/)

[https://datawallet.com/#protect](https://datawallet.com/#protect)

A more detailed reddit thread about them:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/beermoney/comments/8btjah/16_passiv...](https://www.reddit.com/r/beermoney/comments/8btjah/16_passive_data_collection_apps_comparison_make/)

<comment><USER4> I am quite interested in the BAT (Basic Attention Token) project. Using the Brave browser you can either block ads normally or choose to view Brave ads, and the difference with Brave ads is that the viewer gets paid--- in tokens, that is. They can then use the accumulated BAT tokens to send micropayments to platforms and content that they like or peruse frequently. Pretty cool incentive system. And Brave is a really nice browser, at least for mobile.

<comment><USER5> Yeah, but it begs the question, why would anyone want BAT tokens?

<comment><USER4> AFAIK, you can't even withdraw the tokens currently. The idea being, you use the BAT tokens to send micropayments to your favorite sites, and then they can do plenty of things--- re-use that BAT to advertise, cash it out via fiat gateway, etc.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I just finished reading Radical Markets ([http://a.co/7cNafHl](http://a.co/7cNafHl)) and it's funny to see this HN story because the last chapter was about "data labor" where the authors claim that we're all working for FB/GOOG/etc to generate data to train the AIs that makes profit for these companies. And that it's time for "data workers of the world to unite" into a "data labor movement" so we can get paid for our work (I found it kind of silly but worth thinking about). This assumes that a single unit of data (say a person's personal data as in the OP) is worth something on it's own.

The counter-argument to that, which is also presented in the book, can be summarized as the resolution to Adam Smith's "diamond-water" paradox (roughly, why is it that while water is more useful, in terms of survival, than diamonds, diamonds command a higher price in the market). The answer is that the price is determined by the marginal value of the last unit of good available rather than the average value gained by its consumption. So while the average value of personal data is high (you can build a service like Google or Facebook) the single unit value (as in the OP) is low. I'm more convinced by this side of the argument.

<comment><USER7> > I found it kind of silly but worth thinking about

This was my reaction to 95% of the book. Until Radical Markets, I'd never read a nonfiction book that I found so absurd and detached from reality and yet provoked so much useful thought. I worry that others may not realize how detached it is, and that the net effect may not be positive, but we'll see.

<comment><USER8> > A nonfiction book that I found so absurd and detached from reality and yet > provoked so much useful thought.

This is a really interesting category. Makes me think about other books I've read that are a bit like that. I'd probably put Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance in there. Maybe Understanding Media by Marshall McLuhan as well.

<comment><USER9> Gregory Clark candidly prefaces his "Farewell to Alms" with the admission that the arguments he presents in the book will most likely be proven "oversimplified, or merely false" but excuses his fallibility quoting Darwin:

"false views, if supported by some evidence, do little harm, for every one takes a salutary pleasure in proving their falseness: and when this is done, one path towards error is closed and the road to truth is often at the same time opened."

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Selling your personal data as an individual is not going to work (yes, I understand this is a joke posting).

If your data has to be re-imported into the various systems that normally exchange consumer profiles (advertising platforms for instance) it will be a net loss, besides that the chances of you hitting one of the properties is nil. So without the association between your profile and your online presence that data has little value on its own and as a single profile.

But in bulk, with a correct association between your profile, your recent online queries, expenditures, location and so on it becomes valuable.

<comment><USER11> With a current bid of £113.00, it's working fine.

<comment><USER12> The first time is always a special case. This reminds me of "the million dollar homepage". It worked once. It will never work again.

<comment><USER13> Also the potato salad kickstarter[0]. Raised $55,000 to make a potato salad. Lots of clones appeared and made about $10.

[0] [https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zackdangerbrown/potato-...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zackdangerbrown/potato- salad)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> irregular-john Absolutely a serious question here: what is the big deal with companies e.g. Facebook and Google using your data for profit?

These companies provide services that _you_ , a user of their platforms, want. Providing those services is not free, and yet the prevailing sentiment across the internet seems to be, "Wow, I can't believe FB was using my data to sell me ads!"

<comment><USER14> Just one example: Imagine a group of people where you are one of the few people without a Facebook account. Then there is some group pressure to push you into becoming a Facebook user and since they don't offer a paid service, you either have to convince a lot of people to use some other medium, sell your personal information or accept missing a lot of communication.

<comment><USER15> > Just one example: Imagine a group of people where you are one of the few > people without a Facebook account. Then there is some group pressure to push > you into becoming a Facebook user and since they don't offer a paid service, > you either have to convince a lot of people to use some other medium, sell > your personal information or accept missing a lot of communication.

This is peer pressure and has nothing to do with the way Facebook monetize its product.

<comment><USER16> > _This is peer pressure and has nothing to do with the way Facebook monetize > its product._

Sure it does. Facebook relies on the concept of peer pressure and people's desire for a sense of belonging to continue to monetize its product. They know that human connections aren't fungible, so they can gain adoption through local monopolies.

<comment><USER15> > Sure it does. Facebook relies on the concept of peer pressure and people's > desire for a sense of belonging to continue to monetize its product.

Every single social network relies on this concept; the way it's monetized is independant of that.

<comment><USER17> Sorry I kind of missed the independence part - in the main, no social network has value unless it has most of the target audience on the network.

So monetization _results_ are entirely dependent on having those people subscribed.

Thus all the emphasis on techniques to get people hooked/attracted/addicted etc.

That's sort of an operating cost/basic imperative to the social network.

So when you say it's independent , what do you mean?

<comment><USER15> > So when you say it's independent , what do you mean?

We agree that "monetization results are entirely dependent on having those people subscribed". What I'm saying is the _way_ Facebook does that monetization (with ads) is independent of that. If Facebook were a subscription-based service, it'd still rely on those "techniques to get people hooked/attracted/addicted etc". So you can't complain about Facebook's ad- based model by saying it encourages peer pressure because the latter would still exist even if there weren't ads.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> There are quite a few new blockchain projects[1] aiming to directly remunerate users for data. They're essentially trying to shift the middleman share of the data market into the pockets of the actual data owners – the people.

Advertisers typically aren't interested in single person (personal) data. The minimum size aggregate audience is 1M people to have any advertising value.

[1] [https://datum.org/](https://datum.org/) [https://wibson.org/](https://wibson.org/) [https://datawallet.com/](https://datawallet.com/)

</comment><comment><USER19> > Loads more, like who I vote for, my boss's name, and where all my family > live.

So their selling other people's data too?

<comment><USER10> Every time someone on FB shares a picture with other people in it they are doing just that.

<comment><USER20> TIL when I tag a friend on Facebook I'm also tagging their political beliefs, work history, favorite food, and venereal disease status.

<comment><USER10> > So their selling other people's data too?

I was answering that particular question. Either you didn't get it or you pretended to not get it, hard to tell the difference from here.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Somewhat related: [https://marketplace.streamr.com/](https://marketplace.streamr.com/)

Streamr is a marketplace to sell your data streams (vs static data in this case).

</comment><comment><USER22> Jaron Lainer - Who Owns the Future is a great read on the topic of owning and monetising ones data.

</comment><comment><USER23> > Condition: Used

Very nice touch.

</comment><comment><USER24> > "Permission to steal my identity and open a sweat shop."

What if I just do one of those things? This guy needs a lawyer.

<comment><USER10> No, then _you_ will need a lawyer.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> If you tried to sell your on ATM number and PIN or SSN# and Credit Card Credentials, your Ebay account would be shut down in less than 24hrs. You would be guilty of "identity theft" for not adequately protecting your own identity. (i.e. credit worthiness)

</comment><comment><USER26> Didn't know Ebay suddenly allowed digital goods again

<comment><USER27> He could probably be putting it on a CD, DVD or USB drive and mailing it out. But looks like only shipping to the UK... Says "May not post to United States" for me.

<comment><USER28> He's supplying it on a one time USB drive and only offering collection in person from London, UK.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> This is going to get interesting only when someone offers a good sample of blood with no strings attached (that is, you're free to clone me or even use my DNA to plant evidence for a crime). I admit an extremely generous offer would make it tempting to me.

</comment><comment><USER30> That reminds me of a (satirical) personal data exchange website [1] which criticized a lot of personal data exposure incidents in Korea. Most amusingly, the website, which had absolutely no actual personal data or functions (and clearly indicated it's a joke in the first click), was blocked by the South Korean government.

[1] [http://trademyinfo.libsora.so/](http://trademyinfo.libsora.so/) (in Korean)

[2] [https://libsora.so/posts/trade-my-info-warning-or- kr/](https://libsora.so/posts/trade-my-info-warning-or-kr/) (in Korean)

</comment><comment><USER31> Whoever wants it already has it.

</comment><comment><USER32> Hey @olifrost, presumably this contains personally identifiable information of several individuals connected to you - are you seeking their individual consent too?

<comment><USER33> Why should he? I don't have a Facebook account and yet people post pictures of me without my consent.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> damn..it's starting to hockeystick. and these are pounds so it's like $400 now. Reminds me of the the million dollar homepage and other gimmicks that get a lot of money and attention initially and then fail when replicated.

</comment><comment><USER35> A comic that I assume was inspired by this stunt: [https://www.smbc- comics.com/comic/free-love](https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/free-love)

</comment><comment><USER36> This type of data typically had low individual and high collective value.

</comment><comment><USER37> The idea of selling information you choose directly to advertisers, intentionally, is much healthier than Facebook / Google etc spending tons of time inferring shit about you.

</comment><comment><USER38> Yes: [http://jenniferlynmorone.com/](http://jenniferlynmorone.com/)

</comment><comment><USER39> I actually think this is going to be the next big thing. Some sort of data broker app that helps users market their own data for a commission. Like an app that can look at the data and basically say, "okay, so judging by your data, we think you are a big fan of Nike products? Is this something you would like us to market on your behalf and if so would you like to make this data more valuable to advertisers (and yourself) by filling out a survey that provides a better understanding of how important this product is to you?

<comment><USER2> OK but why wouldn't you cut out the user as a middleman, and just market to the user directly? If I knew you were a fan of Nike, I could just sell that to Nike directly instead of asking you to in a roundabout fashion.

As many people have observed, the current digital economy really already facilitates you monetizing your data, by allowing you to have access to innumerable resources for free. Those resources don't cost zero to operate, but you pay for them with your data.

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> A good reference in this context would be www.datacoup.com, which allows one to monetize their data in a safe manner.

</comment><comment><USER41> Spin off the classic joke: Identity theft? I've had my identity on eBay for a year and no one wants it!

</comment><comment><USER42> This is an interesting thought experience. What is all this data actually worth ? How can you monetize it ?

</comment><comment><USER43> *Facebook data

</comment><comment><USER44> It's considered an infringement of GDPR. eBay should take it down

<comment><USER45> How do you believe this is infringing the GDPR?

IANAL, but...

Ebay are processing the data as instructed by the data subject (Art 6. 1a) for the fulfillment of a contract to sell the data (Art 6. 2b).

[https://gdpr-info.eu/art-6-gdpr/](https://gdpr-info.eu/art-6-gdpr/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER46> I want oreo update s7 adge for free please help me

</comment><comment><USER47> I am planning on doing this with my medical record.

<comment><USER48> Why stop there? Let's see someone auction their whole genome sequence.

<comment><USER49> There are already hundreds of people sharing their whole genome sequence publicly.

[http://www.personalgenomes.org/](http://www.personalgenomes.org/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> we're being comoditized. Either as becoming end layer in a tech stack, or a supplier to an aggregator.. all the same.

</comment><comment><USER51> @olifro do you ship internationally?

</comment><comment><USER52> Over $100 so far with five days left

</comment><comment><USER53> Raw data? No value in that.

</comment><comment><USER54> behind this is the question of morality,I think.

</comment><comment><USER55> It's scary how much information we actually have out there without knowing.

</comment><comment><USER56> Seems to be self aggrandizement/someone who wants to market themselves...I'll just move on.

<comment><USER57> Aside from the fact that it's a joke... Isn't that what social media is for in the first place?

</comment></comment><comment><USER58> Let's normalize our exploitation with humor.

<comment><USER59> I wouldn't say it's normalizing the exploitation. It's putting it in perspective. My first thought when I read this post was "Why would you do that? That seems really stupid!", but then remebered, this is what we are already doing essentially. Only on a larger scale, and hidden from view.

<comment><USER58> And to think - if you didn't have such a good memory, metaphors like this would be lost on you!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER60> How do I know you are not keeping the money to yourself? Also data without government official id is not convincing enough.

</comment><comment><USER61> Staying with the 'I'm just making a point' aspect, what portion of the proceeds are you sharing with your family for disclosing their addresses? Or have they all signed waivers?</comment>