"Lifefaker.com makes faking perfection easy" - <AUTHOR> http://lifefaker.com/?=HackerNews <comment><USER2> Note that this is itself a fake site. It's put up by [https://sanctus.io/](https://sanctus.io/) and clicking on any Buy button will redirect you to this Medium post: [https://sanctus.io/social-media-mental- health-b1803b6b475f](https://sanctus.io/social-media-mental- health-b1803b6b475f)

<comment><USER3> The best satire is the one where you can't immediately tell. This nailed that.

<comment><USER4> Even the logo is spot on. This is dark satire indeed, predicting the near future where someone out there actually will offer such a service, and millions will buy into it. This would be a perfect fit in the world of _Black Mirror_.

<comment><USER5> As both a speculative fiction author and an entrepreneur, new ideas sometimes have me on the fence for whether I should make them into businesses, or into dystopian novellas.

<comment><USER6> this would be hard to scale as you would probably need to generate new images for each client, but if you could auto-generate imagery per client that would help (still the subscription needs to be priced higher)

<comment><USER7> The "influencer" would just have to take a lot of pictures for each event. Maybe the same from different angles...

Could easily generate hundreds of photos from one "session".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Having been at the tail end of the age group that missed the normalization of 'likes' as a legitimate asset to accumulate, I'm curious what the turning point was when people no longer felt self conscious to openly admitting to collecting these virtual assets? Startups, media campaigns etc, we understood why they were doing it, money. But for most social-media users, that's obviously not the case.

I'll admit, when I had a facebook account I felt vulnerable when a post of mine didn't get too many likes but it was considered 'lame' to worry about it. Just a few years ago, it was considered a personality flaw to be preoccupied with likes and follower counts. Now it seems it's a primary and openly admitted pre-occupation of many users if not a whole generation, from average Joe's to celebrities.

Were there a set of key events that led to this normalization of what used to be a frowned upon behavior? Or was it merely a grinding away of cultural norms through persistent gamification mechanics?

<comment><USER9> The key development was growing up with an always connected smartphone. There was a period between the early 90s and the mid 00s where kids grew up with a concept of the internet, but not everyone had it, it was hard to get access to so you treated your time in it preciously, and because of this you had several other methods of communicating with friends (like actually calling their landline and actually asking their parents if they are free to talk on the phone.)

Kids who grew up in the 80s were too early to have had the internet at all. But kids who grew up in the 00s, notably after the iPhone came out in 06, grew up very differently. The internet wasn't a precious resource, but an always available utility ready to be consumed at will.

This generation is growing up in a never ending onslaught of advertisements and peer pressure the likes of which we didn't experience. They are all guinea pigs for the Facebooks of the world, subjects of the A/B psychographic targeting grind. Their dopamine receptors have been primed since birth to go crazy at the sight of a like.

Anyway, that's my take on it as someone who grew up in this tiny golden era of the internet.

<comment><USER10> Wouldn't all the overstimulation _harden_ them to dopamine attacks? Normally if you're exposed to something you get used to it, especially if it's a pleasure.

<comment><USER11> That's a common misconception of how dopamine works.

[https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/women-who- stray/2017...](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/women-who- stray/201701/no-dopamine-is-not-addictive)

<comment><USER12> Is your name short for Pavlov?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Wow, they used a picture I took of my remote office for the 'Yeah My Job Lets Me Travel' section. I don't know if I feel good or bad about that...

<comment><USER14> Did they have your permission? Because they explicitly say that the difference between them and catfishing is that they have permission...

<comment><USER15> Satire is protected by fair use.

<comment><USER16> I'm assuming you're talking about US Copyright law.

Satire isn't protected by Fair Use. Parodies are.

Satire will make a more broad point--in this case, the damaging effects on mental health that social media plays. Any use of copyrighted works won't likely be protected.

Parody would be something smaller--like creating a website that looks similar to Instagram, using humor to criticize it.

<comment><USER17> It actually can be protected by fair use -- it's ruled on a case-by-case basis: [http://www.newseuminstitute.org/first-amendment- center/topic...](http://www.newseuminstitute.org/first-amendment- center/topics/freedom-of-speech-2/arts-first-amendment-overview/parody- satire/) (scroll to end) You're right in that there is no BLANKET protection, but it has been used for protection before and continues to be.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I lol'ed at the:

Why has my girlfriend turned into a boyfriend?

There was a common issue that has since been fixed where boyfriend photos were accidentally posted instead of girlfriends. We have since corrected the issue and removed all posts made in error.

<comment><USER19> It's the only thing on the page that gives away it is satire wo/ clicking a link

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> I use the Face app to enhance my face/dating profile pics especially the goatee which changes your skin tone and adds a furrier goatee. It's not a huge tweak to how I look so those who I go on dates or hook up with haven't said anything and our subsequent dates or hook ups continued.

Overall the Internet is and slowly becoming less of a trustworthy source for much of anything. Thus dating apps that force u to take a pic of yourself thru the app no outside pics is probably going to become a thing.

<comment><USER21> Not really. You just don't have enough integrity to roll with your actual look. I wouldn't be so quick to blame that on anything but yourself.

In fact, it's in your best interest to be as honest as you can upfront so a woman's first impression of you isn't "hmm, he looked better in his photos :/"

<comment><USER22> >You just don't have enough integrity to roll with your actual look.

Everyone I know touches up their dating pics somehow. Let's not even get into how your statement relates to makeup, I'm talking about actual modifications to the picture through filters or even straight-up photoshop.

<comment><USER21> So what? I'm not talking about women and make-up. But I'd say the same about a man wearing foundation to round out his blemishes.

The truth is you're really doctoring your images to satisfy your weak ego. And the sooner you acknowledge that, the healthier.

Trying to rope in other people with "but others do it" only demonstrates even weaker integrity. Though I guarantee you're overestimating the number of touch ups using something like Face App. Not really the same as some 80s VHS Instagram filter or whatever.

<comment><USER22> >The truth is you're really doctoring your images to satisfy your weak ego.

I don't think this is true if everyone is doing it. It's like an arms race, you have to do it just to reach a baseline, as opposed to doing it to stand out.

Something similar that occurs in online dating is that guys add 1-2 inches to their height. The vast majority of men do this. I'm somewhere between 5'10 and 5'11, and most people my height list themselves as 6'+, so I started doing it too, and there's been a noticeable difference in the number of matches I get.

If I put my actual height, women will assume I'm under 5'9, because every guy who is 5'8 is listing themselves as 5'10.

You can claim that I'm being "insecure", but I've never been dishonest about my actual height in person. I used to just round down and put 5'10 because I really didn't care, and I'd always get remarks about how I was taller than they expected. Funnily enough, lots of people who are the same height as me really do believe they are 6' because this exaggeration has become so common, and the average adult doesn't measure their height properly and just goes off what everyone else says.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> This is brilliant satire but I feel like a real service like this may already exist, or will exist soon. It's the next logical step.

<comment><USER24> [https://www.selfmade.co/](https://www.selfmade.co/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> What if you do have the money and could indeed make time and also want to do a lot of travel, have awesome friends, eat nice dinner, do weekend partying, and own all those things, but you are simply too lazy?

A lot of the social media personas are made to impress, a proof that fun was had and life was liven, but nobody can really prove those things unless they're also eye witnesses, and people probably wouldn't question the authenticity of someone's social postings unless they do not match the financial or social status of such person.

Say you do want to maintain this "perfect" social image and are just lazy do all the things yourselves, then would it make sense to hire someone to do the things you want to for you and post it on your behalf, or photoshop yourself into every image, and tell you that you totally could have done exactly that?

Is faking a unpractical life style different from faking a practical one?

<comment><USER26> > What if you do have the money and could indeed and also want to do a lot of > travel, have awesome friends, eat nice dinner, do weekend partying, and own > all those things, but you simply do not have the time?

That makes it ethical... right?

<comment><USER25> Updated my comment to make it a bit more clear. I guess I was wondering about what it all means to cast a "real" image on social media anyway.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> My coach said something like: Focus on yourself. Don't care what other people think. If someone laughs at you, then great, it means they are not focusing on themselves and you will have an advantage. If someone thinks you're a looser, it doesn't matter, you can still have a happy life, while others are occupied on trying to look good, you can spend that energy on improving yourself to reach your own goals and desires. In my own coaching I try to make sure goals have intrinsic motivation, not based on what other people think. For example a bad motive is "I want to have big muscles so others will respect me", vs a good motive is "I want to have big muscles so I will feel better about myself". So don't have a party just to show off on Facebook how a good life you have, instead, forbid cameras and enjoy yourself.

</comment><comment><USER28> Hmm,

Buying photos probably isn't a sustainable way to maintain a profile. On the other hand, the transformation of ordinary photos into "perfect instagram photos" seems plausibly doable by some form of generative neural nets (akin to the style transfer and fake celebrity apps). Obviously, such photos would need to be also human vetted but this could open up a lot of possibilities.

And sure, this site is fake but I don't think instagram insanity is going away just with site pointing to mental health considerations. You'd need to change society, how people relate to fame and so-forth.

Letting literally everyone fake perfection actually seems more plausible as a way to escape the insanity of everyone wanting to be celebrity compared to links to psychologists talking about problems. It would be great "raising awareness" could help problems but I think history shows awareness raising does nearly nothing especially compared to giving someone a tool operate differently. For example, there's at least claims that most plastic surgery patients really do feel happier long term - at least for simple changes.

<comment><USER29> > Letting literally everyone fake perfection

The reverse of _Harrison Bergeron_? Somehow more humane and workable.

[http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html](http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html)

<comment><USER30> One of my favourite short stories. Short, punchy, and it makes a poignant observation.

<comment><USER31> it sums up the objection to equality very well. is there a "socialists' response" to this?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> I know it's a parody, but it's not a horrible business idea, and some agencies do similar with their clients. Many models etc you may follow in Instagram really have an agency that schedules posts that aren't even from that day to keep social engagement up, they have post scheduler and mix in day to day content. The pictures of people with their feet hanging out of a helicopter or tent, etc, are largely compositions. It's a big business. CNBC, I believe, did a special on this. It was fairly mind blowing.

<comment><USER33> Exactly. Its's not that by now anyone believes any of that s#%t is real. It's more like, you have an audience and they want to be entertained. You posting things is acknowledging that and demonstrating you do the best you can to deliver top notch entertainment. Social media representing actual reality would be abysmally boring. You can get boatloads of reality just by walking out your door. But where would be the fun in that?

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> This is brilliant. What's worrying is that this could quite possibly be a valid, profitable business idea. Maybe even using deep fakes to put your face on a moving jetski or something. It would probably impress a lot of people while the tech is still fairly esoteric.

<comment><USER35> Deep fakes to get genuine look positive reviews from previous dates. All you need is a few seconds of video and audio of their face.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> Are you only half-way through the JS course at Code Academy? Afraid of being rejected for coding jobs? Do you know the posted requirements are BS, and you're confident you can grow into any developer role?

For the next 30 days, you can buy a "JobHunter Special": listing as "current employee" on a corporate website, live email replies from 2 "former" companies in case of a reference check, and 30 commits on a Github "project".

We also offer the "Personality Special" Wordpress vanity blog package! Choose between the "team compassion" ( two photoshopped weeks of volunteering at a children's hospital in Southeast Asia) or the "risktaker" ( a photoshopped 10 day canoe tour in the Amazon). All photos include valid EXIF data for dates and locations.

(/notreal)

</comment><comment><USER37> In the video, the first girl interviewed is shaking her head "no" while talking. I see that often in people being interviewed like this. It's just extra obvious here. Another typical example is someone being interviewed like "we're investing a lot in this project in our school which is great for the students [shakes head no while saying so]" or e.g. a kickstarter video like "this product is going to revolutionize the ..... [shakes head no while mellow guitar music plays in the background]"

What does the no shake mean? Does it mean what they're telling is not true? Or is there some other reason why people instinctively shake no while talking in interviews?

<comment><USER38> I think it's a pretty common gesture, maybe meaning roughly "you won't believe this," or "I'm slightly breathless with amazement." My four-year-old actually does this gesture when describing something amazing, and I don't see myself or my wife doing it.

But gestures are so hard to translate. I grew up in Italy, famous of course for its gestures. One of the most common is making an "OK" symbol with your fingers and drawing little short straight lines downwards with it. What does it mean? I doubt many of the people using it could put it into word, precisely. But we learn it the way we learn language, the same way we use intonation to turn a statement into a question, without it ever being taught.

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> The real version of this can be found here: [http://www.theinstadream.com/](http://www.theinstadream.com/)

<comment><USER40> Unfortunately the real version doesn't have the videos to convince me why I need this.

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> For those who don't want to download the 15.0 MB presskit zip file at the end, but still want to know what it contains:

      .
      ├── ~$fefaker.docx
      ├── lifefaker-pressrelease.docx
      ├── lifefaker-pressrelease.pdf
      └── Screenshots : Banners
          ├── lifefaker site 1.jpg
          ├── lifefaker site 2.jpg
          ├── lifefaker site 3.jpg
          ├── lifefaker site 4.jpg
          ├── lifefaker site 5.jpg
          ├── lifefaker site 6.jpg
          ├── lifefaker site 7.jpg
          ├── lifefaker site 8.jpg
          ├── lifefaker site 9.jpg
          ├── longbanner-lifefaker-1.jpg
          ├── longbanner-lifefaker-2.jpg
          ├── longbanner-lifefaker-3.jpg
          ├── squarebanner-lifefaker-1.jpg
          └── squarebanner-lifefaker-2.jpg

The pdf gives a basic overview of what the site pretends to do, then says:

> "However, anyone who tries to use Lifefaker.com will learn the real purpose > of the project. They'll receive a message from Sanctus, a mental health > start-up. The site reminds us that we've all felt the pressures of social > media – with 62% of people feeling inadequate comparing their lives to those > online. The site users can click through to Sanctus.io for a film exploring > the unhealthy behaviours on social media that impact our mental health, and > what we can do to change them.

> Download Stills | Download Film "

</comment><comment><USER42> This pretty much summarized 90% of IG accounts.

They just need a "Look at all the famous people I know" option :)

<comment><USER43> The "I'm an influencer" package

</comment></comment><comment><USER44> I have one credit card that I pay off every month and never charge more than 20 percent of its limit. My house, vehicle, etc. are all paid for. I spend very little as I need little. I have been frugal all my life and now I find a credit score of 500. I contacted a credit scoring firm to figure this whole thing out for me but got turned down several times not until I read about a well recommended credit repair firm. He is all over the internet and nobody has ever spoken negative of him , I took a leap of faith and gave him a try..He boosted my scores, removed all my negatives . Now I am living a standard life and I can't thank him enough..He's blunt and honest. You can give him a try for your credit score boost.. send him on email email@example.com PHONE:+1 321 256 3670

</comment><comment><USER45> Great satire site. I also remember this video which I thought was really well- done about social media versus real life: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxVZYiJKl1Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxVZYiJKl1Y)

<comment><USER46> Wow that video was great, funny yet poignant. One of the comments was eye opening as well. Cassandra Smith says '"The reason we struggle with insecurity is because we compare our behind-the-scenes with everyone else's highlight reel" \- Steven Furtick' I think that correlates well with what lifefaker was trying to point out. Our amateur 'lives' aren't necessarily comparable to post-edited big studio 'lives'.

</comment></comment><comment><USER47> What I'd really encourage people is to try acting classes. It's a weird form of therapy whereas the focus is not you, as when you go to a therapist, but inadvertently the things you do there work on yourself.

Here's an excerpt from a book on the actor's craft. "You asked me a question," Bill says, looking at Jon. "You asked me, 'How can we get better at processing our emotions?' You should all turn off your cell phones. Shut down your computers. Click off your iPods and your televisions and everything you listen to that isn't human. Modern society has surrounded us with these things and they're killing us. We're beginning to forget what it is simply to breathe and eat and laugh and watch and wonder and listen and experience one another. We're forgetting how to be human beings with actual opinions and genuine feelings and originality. And if we can't be human, how can we ever hope to be artists"

This guy who taught acting classes for 30 years, is able to see clearly what technology has done for human contact.

If you think about it, it really makes sense that there's something really fundamental for us humans in acting. It's an art that has been with us for thousands of years, and has withstood the test of time.

<comment><USER48> and yet ironically, one of the goals of acting + writing is to transform this human contact and emotional experience into a form that can be consumed with computers, ipods, televisions and cellphones.

</comment></comment><comment><USER49> Does it not only provide you with the content but also schedule the distribution like Buffer?

For better or for worse I feel there is definitely a market for some version of this.

<comment><USER50> This is not a real service. Try to buy one of their packages and it brings up a page that says:

You're not alone. 62% of people feel inadequate comparing their lives to others online.

Then links to some mental health article on social media.

<comment><USER3> I'm apparently #blessed to have grown up in that middle era remembering before and after the internet where I think it's less likely to have this type of insecurity.

I wish i had a crystal ball to see if were social media is going, for me, away is the only answer. For everyone else... I really can't tell when it will peak.

That black mirror on the topic episode was so good!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> Is it just me that doesn't have any of the images loading up?

<comment><USER52> Looks like a hug of death. Many resources aren't loading at all on that site anymore

</comment></comment><comment><USER53> Some friends and I joked about something similar as a service - We would run secure Android VMs to spoof GPS coordinates & camera inputs, which would allow you to checkin & submit content to social media apps - all to achieve unprecedented levels of humble bragging.

</comment><comment><USER54> I really want to do a Whois search and have it say George Costanza as the owner of this site.

<comment><USER55> Really it needs to say "Art Vandelay"

</comment></comment><comment><USER56> This feels like a GTAV radio ad.

<comment><USER57> Totally. Wasn't the satirical version of facebook called lifeinvader in that game? very similar :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER58> I wished it was a real service. They should have scheduled uploads and some kind of travel package so it look like you are on a back packing trip or something. You could add this as sabbatical on your resume.

<comment><USER3> Just got back from a trip around Asia, man, it's a lot of WORK posting photos with little blips about them. I refuse to use Facebook or Instagram, but Flickr was the same process and still took time away from the trip.

I seriously don't understand how people with selfie compulsion snapping hundreds of photos a day make time to sort through them.

<comment><USER5> Now there's a service: you take the photos; we'll curate them, caption them, and post them on the right social channels at the right times for maximum reach. Like a consumer-level PR agency.

<comment><USER3> Whoa. That's actually something! Hand selected at first then machine learning to find photos with good light and focus, repetition of face angles you like, then filtered for a human for final approval.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER59> Hope they release a "My Startup is Killing It" package.

<comment><USER60> This sounds like a perfect LinkedIn premium tier

</comment></comment><comment><USER61> Posted with a straight face by a startup with no actual qualifications for talking about mental health, but with an Instagram full of smiling people and pithy quotes.

</comment><comment><USER62> Because the road to perfection begins with money.

</comment><comment><USER63> Also relevant (tangential), the Center for Humane Technology[1]. Their "This Panda is Dancing"[1] video explains the problem and their mission.

[1]: [http://humanetech.com/](http://humanetech.com/)

[2]: [https://youtu.be/tf9ZhU7zF8s](https://youtu.be/tf9ZhU7zF8s) (3m49s)

</comment><comment><USER64> My life is far from perfect and I don't try paint a perfect version on Instagram.. but my photos could be in these packages.

<comment><USER3> Just went to Borneo jungles by long boat. If i used fb/insta I might post those pics knowing but also not caring if someone else compared themselves to me. The dopamine hit from likes is real, I think it's best to avoid even if you do cool things.

Really, if you do cool things and are an actually cool person, you don't need to broadcast it.

<comment><USER64> When I do cool things I often meet new people. I connect with them through Insta and enjoy seeing their photos of the cool thing. I get to see their perspective and things I might not have done/seen.

I would enjoy seeing someones experience of the Borneo jungles because I haven't been and from a quick google it looks like something I would enjoy.

You do have a point about the hit from likes and I have to admit that I have taken photos with the mindset "this will go on Instagram".. but maybe that is not so bad. Insta and the people who post on it are like a community and once you approach it right you can get a lot from it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER65> As someone in their 20s I'm always amazed (and i'm sure my peers in the same age group are) by how many people become somewhat famous on Instagram. The people doing it usually don't have jobs that could find the kind of lifestyles they portray, so where do they get this money from?

<comment><USER66> Debt possibly. I personally knew a few people that would spend money they don't have just to show off IRL before social media was a thing, and I can see doing it to a larger audience being much more efficient.

</comment></comment><comment><USER67> My coach said something like: Focus on yourself. Don't care what other people think. If someone laughs at you, then great, it means they are not focusing on themselves and you will have an advantage. If someone thinks you're a looser, it doesn't matter, you can still have a happy life, while others are occupied on trying to look good, you can spend that energy on improving yourself to reach your own goals and desires. In my own coaching I try to make sure goals have intrinsic motivation, not based on what other people think. For example a bad motive is "I want to have big muscles so others will respect me", vs a good motive is "I want to have big muscles so I will feel better about myself". So don't have a party just to show off on Facebook how a good life you have, instead, forbid cameras and enjoy yourself.

</comment><comment><USER67> My coach said something like: Focus on yourself. Don't care what other people think. If someone laughs at you, then great, it means they are not focusing on themselves and you will have an advantage. If someone thinks you're a looser, it doesn't matter, you can still have a happy life, while others are occupied on trying to look good, you can spend that energy on improving yourself to reach your own goals and desires. In my own coaching I try to make sure goals have intrinsic motivation, not based on what other people think. For example a bad motive is "I want to have big muscles so others will respect me", vs a good motive is "I want to have big muscles so I will feel better about myself". So don't have a party just to show off on Facebook how a good life you have, instead, forbid cameras and enjoy yourself

</comment><comment><USER68> A twist on "We Can Remember It For You Wholesale" by Philip K. Dick in 1966.

</comment><comment><USER69> This has never been more relevant: [https://www.unexplained- mysteries.com/column.php?id=143352](https://www.unexplained- mysteries.com/column.php?id=143352)

</comment><comment><USER70> Given that a huge percentage of social media behavior is manufactured, staged, and almost always aimed at social signaling, it's only a matter of time before this moves beyond parody and into reality.

</comment><comment><USER71> "Lifefaker.com is a fictitious website" Clearly, it isn't.

</comment><comment><USER72> I'm not a very active contributor here, but the only points I occasionally find myself paying attention to are the ones on HN. It actually means something to get a few replies.

</comment><comment><USER73> Darn, I was hoping to buy some of these and create a fake account to see how many followers I could accumulate, kind of like "Ultra superficial".

</comment><comment><USER74> All images broken for me on Chrome/Android mobile.

</comment><comment><USER75> Sadly, I already thought of this at some point; it was probably when I was looking at my totally unimpressive Facebook wall.

</comment><comment><USER76> This is a great marketing idea! Congrats. I haven't heard of Sanctus before

</comment><comment><USER77> Seems to be hugged to death, the photos are sporadically broken URLs.

</comment><comment><USER78> Maybe someone is testing a hypothesis. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

</comment><comment><USER79> Is it a YC company? Just curious. :)

<comment><USER33> I'm sure there will be several applicants this winter, pitching an idea like that. You've got to sell that shovel before the gold rush is over.

</comment></comment><comment><USER80> Let's fix that title, please :)

</comment><comment><USER81> Fantastic! Great job faking faking!

</comment><comment><USER82> I'm so unhappy that this isn't real. The amount of competitive trolling I could do with this...

 _Sigh_

<comment><USER83> Real services like this do exist though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER84> add some deep fake ai to still images and make a business out of this

</comment><comment><USER85> Great parody bringing attention to the fact people only share the best moments of their life

</comment><comment><USER86> where's the vertical scrollbar? :<

</comment><comment><USER87> Cool

</comment><comment> paulperry-wc just great!!!

</comment><comment><USER88> I would like an enterprise version of this. Say I want to rewrite my entire career, the service could build up an entire resume and educational background that turns me into a perfect candidate for a company I'm applying to, or makes me look like a big shot that everyone wants to network with or invest in my companies. And if people want references there could be live operators waiting to take calls and give a glowing review. Yes!

</comment><comment><USER89> One of Peterson's rules for life: If you have to choose between being seen doing something, and doing something, choose the ladder.

<comment><USER90> Sounds like a rule for being a master thief

</comment></comment><comment> paulperry-wc just great!!!!

</comment><comment><USER91> I like this satire, it's making a fun statement. I was mildly surprised though by the images they chose for "my unachievable body" for men. The women's examples were definitely absurd, but of the two dudes one was just a guy with unremarkable arms deadlifting, and another was just a dude with low bodyfat. Why didn't they go with like a mr Olympia or something? Maybe it's a statement on how much easier it is for men to be considered to have "a hot bod" than woman?

<comment><USER92> "Unremarkable arms"? "Just a dude with low body fat"?

Not sure what circles you're in, but I know exactly one person that looks even remotely as good as those two guys. For about 95% of the world population, these are unachievable bodies.

<comment><USER93> I also take issue with the idea that these are "unachievable", as if it's physically impossible for all but 5% of the genetically gifted, and there's no point in the rest of us trying because we weren't born that way.

The reality is that most could achieve these physiques if they wanted to, it's just that nobody wants to put in the effort of lifting at least 3x a week for at least 30 mins a day, strictly counting calories, (I would say taking anabolic steroids but those pics definitely look achievable naturally).

So I'd say it's not an issue of "can't", it's an issue of "won't". And that's totally fine to not prioritize that, but don't discourage those who might otherwise want to.

For anyone reading this who wants to try strength training, I can attest that it's worth it. Regardless of where you start, if you follow the process you will look better and be healthier than you began. Many see noticeable changes within as little as 3 months. Within the circles I know, people look better and get stronger every year, and building strength helps with so many other activities, so it'll give you a leg up when you're trying indoor climbing, or yoga, or paddleboarding, etc.

<comment><USER29> Concur that strength training is worth it, but it doesn't automatically give you anything like those appearances even if the amount you can lift goes up substantially.

Calorie counting that strictly seems to be psychologically gruelling for most people. (This will start an argument in comments, but I'll just point out that telling someone that something they find extremely difficult is something you find easy has never in the history of education enabled anyone to do anything)

<comment><USER93> I don't find it easy either though, it was a huge pain and I could only pull it off for a tow years because I obsessed over it: I lived and breathed fitness until I could find a new weight to maintain. I spent my free time reading fitness forums, watching fitness channels for fun, etc.

With that same amount of time I could have put serious work into my other hobbies like electronics or made more career moves. I probably sacrificed that for fitness, but I don't regret it.

These days I've dropped the obsession to work on other things. I still go to the gym twice a week for maintenance, and my weight fluctuates more around my new goal weight, but I've gotten used to my metabolism.

All-in-all I'm very thankful to be healthier, and I hope others find a similar joy in strength training or physical exercise. It's a lot of work, but it's so worth it! No matter where you start, you can make progress.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Tracing Business Acumen to Dyslexia  - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/06/business/06dyslexia.html?ex=1354597200&en=bb1d155da82e2bb1&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

<comment><USER2> "She attributed the greater share in the United States to earlier and more effective intervention by American schools to help dyslexic students deal with their learning problems."

Couldn't the reason dyslexic people become entrepreneurs rather than "corporate managers" just as easily be because they don't do well in school, and thus don't have the same risk/reward profile due to fewer opportunities being available to them? Same thing with immigrants, they don't have the credentials to get the jobs they're qualified for so they end up starting businesses in hugely disproportionate numbers. I think something like a third of all new jobs are created by immigrants.</comment>


Google-Landmarks: A New Dataset and Challenge for Landmark Recognition - <AUTHOR> https://research.googleblog.com/2018/03/google-landmarks-new-dataset-and.html <comment><USER2> Looks like we here in picturesque New Zealand may have more landmarks than Africa and the Middle East combined!

More seriously, I didn't see anything about the providence or license of the pictures, or how they ended up in this collection. The Kaggle competition data doesn't seem to contain the actual photos, just links.

<comment><USER3> The photos might be from contributions on Google maps, which users grant rights to Google.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> When will they release their recaptcha datasets, and their voice datasets? I'm really happy to see this, but I feel like we're being tossed crumbs here.

</comment><comment><USER5> I wonder if it is data from Ingress?

<comment><USER6> If there are trash bins marked as landmarks then it's Ingress.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Does anyone really love their job? - <AUTHOR> I had someone tell me recently, "do what you are passionate about and you will love your job." As I sat there and reflected... I wasn't sure if I am "that" passionate about anything... Anyone else in this boat with work? <comment><USER2> I do. As founder of Tech in Asia, I admit I struggled a little initially because I kept thinking about money. But as time passes, I learned that there are things much more important than money. Don't get me wrong, I still think $ is important, I do want to be rich (who doesn't?). But money isn't as important as building a company with great culture, values and mission that is worth pursuing.

Life is too short to chase for money. Enough is good, more is better. Live within your means. I don't crave for a luxurious life. Money is an item to allow us (the company) to keep doing what we love doing. Valuation is a measure of how much the company has grown but I'm not obsessed with it. I rather spend my time being happy. Building a company with good culture, values and worthy mission makes me happy. If you're interested, our culture code can be found here: [https://www.techinasia.com/culture/](https://www.techinasia.com/culture/) :)

<comment><USER3> Thanks for starting Tech In Asia. It's been a great source for me to keep track of all the innovation that's going on in the region. I'm very impressed by what's going on there. I was originally born in Malaysia but moved to Canada many years back. However, I've always had a soft spot and its sites like yours that help me stay connected. Thank you!

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I would say I love my job. However, I'm not enthusiastic about it. From what I am able to infer, it seems similar to most long term marriages/relationships and the way spouses/partners feel about each other.

Meanwhile, I am passionate about being my best self. I get great satisfaction when I know I've done my best at something. In that regard work, whatever it is, definitely gives me tasks to accomplish, and be my best at. Outside of video games (and maybe religion?), its the only place in life that gives you both a task to do and motivation(money) to actually complete it.

I also know what I hate, I hate doing the same thing over and over. I definitely avoid that. I am very fortunate though. My job doesn't involve a lot of repetitive tasks. I think that would get on my nerves. I don't think I'm psychologically built for that.

</comment><comment><USER5> Paul Graham writes about this in his excellent book 'Hackers & Painters' ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hackers_%26_Painters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hackers_%26_Painters)).

There often is a big difference between doing what you love, and doing what must be done in society, like calculating mortgages for some stupid bank with corporate policies and everyone wearing the same boring blue-ish shirt. I do it to, have an excellent paycheck, which gives me freedom to do things I like in my own time.

Most creative persons need a day job. It is very rare that customers are willing to pay for precisely the thing you like to create. Even Van Gogh goodn't make a living from his paintings...

<comment><USER5> (and I don't hate my job btw, there is a lot of technical challenge in what I do. Creating a wel performing system for milions of customers is a big puzzle to be solved.

I just can't stand corporate environment with way to much untalented people in to expensive suits acting being busy and important :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Oh my goodness, yes definitely... I love my job, love my work, the bosses are fantastic... I am living testimony that it's possible. Don't know how common this is though.

I work crazy long hours because the work is so much fun, and because I care about getting a bunch of things done even when there isn't enough time in the workday.

Yep, call me in love.

<comment><USER5> "the bosses are fantastic"... you guys have openings for a good c# dev? :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> I love programming in general, but I've struggled through my last few jobs. I'm pretty close to hating my current job, despite that fact that I work on a well-known product with millions of users.

The analogy that comes to mind is a pro race car driver who is forced to only drive on an obstacle course, never exceeding 20 mph. The driver has skills that enable him to drive successfully on the obstacle course, but he yearns to do what he loves, opening up on a proper racetrack. In the same way, I have the skills to do tedious debugging of a large, absurdly complex system with tons of technical debt, only making minimal changes to avoid the whole pile of spaghetti collapsing. But I wish every day that I was designing and implementing systems instead, and I'm good at that, too.

Ironically, it was early in my career that I had the most autonomy to implement new features and write a lot of code, even if it was on obscure products. In the latter part of my career, I guess my mistake was allowing myself to be lured into working on "famous" things at big companies, even though it amounted to being mostly a maintenance programmer on sprawling, spaghettified legacy software.

I guess that next time, I should be more diligent about trying to find out what the day-to-day work will be like (which I find very hard to get an accurate idea of in the interview process. obviously the interviewer is going to paint a rosy picture), and at this point I would rather work on something totally obscure, if it meant I got to do more design and coding.

</comment><comment><USER8> I know for me, there are times and projects where I really do love my job. The other day I got to code in C for the first time in a long time; I mean, it was something that would have been far more efficiently done in a regex against the output of a shell program, but the boss wanted it done using the API, so C it was. and... there's something really satisfying about writing something that works in C. That, and the novelty of writing something in C. Novelty is big for me.

There are other times where, as they say, "that's why they call it work" where I have to visualize that paycheck to get me through the day. Hell, today I had to reboot like ten servers and change bios settings by hand. Oh my god, it's like the attention deficit disorder tests the shrink gives you. "Press Delete or F12 when the screen tells you to press delete or F12, but not before it tells you, or else you have to start over and wait an additional 180 seconds." \- and ten is so few that it didn't justify busting out expect and writing a script. (I mean, if I was feeling my oats, that's what I would have done, and it would have been really fun, but I haven't touched expect in years and it would have taken rather longer to come back up to speed than to just do it.)

Now, obviously, if I have too much of the latter, I start thinking about changing things, but I think it's not realistic to think that you'll love your job all the time.

In general, I think how much I enjoy it has as much to do with me and how I think about it as it has to do with the work. - Certainly, I'm not saying it's got nothing to do with the work, the work is part of it; but how you approach that work, how long you've been doing that work, and what your perceived alternatives are all have a big part to play in your level of satisfaction, in my experience.

You can mostly ignore the people who crow too much about "passion" \- Most of the time, if the job ad talks more about passion than about qualifications, that actually means they want to pay you intern salary and just don't want to tell you up front. If that's your thing, go for it... but the big corporate jobs that actually let you operate at scale and/or actually pay decently are going to be more concerned with qualifications than with "passion"

I'll show up and do the job. And yes, sometimes I will enjoy it. but I'm not in sales; I don't have to pretend like I'm always happy- and if that's what you want out of your employees? I thank you for letting me know ahead of time so that we don't waste oneanother's time.

</comment><comment><USER9> The trick is not doing what you love (working on something you are passionate about) but loving what you do (being passionate about whatever you have to do). This idea is discussed in the following books

A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy

So Good They Can't Ignore You: Why Skills Trump Passion

</comment><comment><USER10> I've been developing software for 25 years. There are often projects that drag, and slogs through tedious parts to implement and difficult parts to debug, but for the most part I do love my work. Making stuff work is a joy to me. Solving tricky engineering problems and fixing bugs is fun. Writing code for a product that actually ships and which people enjoy using, that is a great feeling. The meetings and HR and spreadsheets and reviews and office politics, not so much, but I've been fortunate to work for a number of startups and startup-like groups where that kind of stuff can usually be minimized.

</comment><comment><USER11> I've been working on my business for 5 years part-time (on the side while holding down a full-time job) and full-time for the past half year. My first full-time employee started working with me on-site at my client this week after two months of study (at my expense) - I'm training him almost from scratch as a sysadmin. (He's had one year of QA experience with exposure to bash/perl scripting.) It's very gratifying to watch my creation (my company) come into existence, and I love training and mentoring, so yeah, I love my job.

It's not roses and rainbows every day but I'm moving in the right direction, I feel, and I'm happy about that. Makes it easier to bear the drudgy aspects of the job. =)

Good luck!

EDIT: While I was working full-time at my regular job, having a side project kept me inspired and energized.

</comment><comment><USER12> I tend to be more enthusiastic about my job when I leave something for tomorrow. Like a "To be continued" episode that gets you hooked, if I leave at the end of the day with something to finish the next morning, I look forward to it much more than if I push through and get it done before leaving.

I also find I'm more interested in my job when I take a little time each day (15-30 minutes) to read a programming book about a technology I'm working on. Learning is something that I value highly and it makes me more interested in the work when I learn something new that I can apply or know that I'm getting a little bit better.

</comment><comment><USER13> I think it's sufficient to love doing a good job, i.e., to take pride in your work. I doubt my dentist's staff is passionate about removing tartar from teeth, but I would guess they enjoy doing the work correctly.

And even if you're doing what you love, you won't necessarily love every moment. Nothing has the potential to rob something of its enjoyability quite like a bad boss or soulless company.

Further, "passion" isn't really applicable to wide swaths of jobs. And many people's passions have no chance to be profitable.

I think more practical advice is to do work that makes you happy.

</comment><comment><USER14> I love developing software. I even do it for recreation. If I could choose, I would want to work on stuff that is good for everyone. At the moment I'm working on something "neutral to good" so it's okay I guess.

I'm working remote so besides meetings there isn't much difference between coding for fun and coding for work. So it's easy money. I wouldn't say I _love_ the specific job I'm doing right now (I just like it), but I love being a developer :)

</comment><comment><USER15> At some point I really loved my job because it allowed me to spend lots of time doing what I really love (outside of main job). Without being restrictive in any way.

</comment><comment><USER16> There have been some experiments where researchers paid people to do something they loved. Once the person was paid, their reward response to that activity diminished. In some cases, it disappeared entirely, and that once-enjoyable activity became only "work".

</comment><comment><USER17> I think that you can be passionate about what you DO without loving your job. I've had jobs I hate, but I've never stopped loving building things.

As an aside, I do love my current job. When you can get both hang on to it!

</comment><comment><USER18> You may find some answers in pg's essay How To Do What You Love [http://www.paulgraham.com/love.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/love.html)

</comment><comment><USER19> I love doing a good job. Sometimes nobody tells me whether I am or not.

</comment><comment><USER20> I do.

I recently made a switch from a non-technical role to a technical role and couldn't be happier. I keep waiting for someone to come over and tell me to knock it off and come do some actual work.

</comment><comment><USER21> things can get boring or drag on depending on the project. I have a side project outside of work that keeps me going.</comment>


How the convergence of automotive and tech will create a new ecosystem - <AUTHOR> http://www.mckinsey.com/industries/automotive-and-assembly/our-insights/how-the-convergence-of-automotive-and-tech-will-create-a-new-ecosystem <comment><USER2> Just 118 AI engineers in automotive industry?</comment>


Software as a service for pentesting - <AUTHOR> https://penteston.com <comment><USER2> I would never run a website that I own through a third party vulnerability scanner whose page was so unprofessional. The number of typos makes me feel very wary of your product, which I'm sure is nice. How do you compare to Network Detective[0]?

[0] [http://www.rapidfiretools.com/](http://www.rapidfiretools.com/)

<comment><USER3> [http://www.proactiverisk.com/](http://www.proactiverisk.com/) is almost as bad.. or maybe worse depending on if you like the agressive red colors.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I like it</comment>


Showing the world how real soy sauce is supposed to taste - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.com/travel/gallery/20190225-a-750-year-old-japanese-secret <comment><USER4> A lot of food is like that.

E.G: most people never tasted balsamic vinegar, only a mix of regular vinegar with a bit of grapes dust, plus some caramel and flour added to it. Real balsamic vinegar is hard to find and bloody expensive, because the process of making it reduces an entire barel of wine to a bottle.

But we don't need to go that far. I regularly meet children that have never tasted a vegetable or fruit that tasted very good.

It's not their fault they prefer the kit kat. The kit kat taste WAY better than the red plastic clown nose people told them are tomatoes.

But good fruits and vegetable taste awesome. A proper tomatoes can even be eater as-is, like an apple, with nothing on it. A quality olive oil is a feast in itself with some bread and pepper. A nice pomelo has no need to get added sugar to compensate for excess bitterness.

Generally, as more people have access to more food, we also managed to diminush the taste and nutriment it provides.

P.S: this slider format is terrible. I didn't get to the end of the article because of it.

<comment><USER5> > A lot of food is like that.

I swear people in America have never tasted a real, juicy, succulent tomato. I know why we distribute our tomatoes the way we do, but we should stop, because they are shit. It's always these tasteless, bland red things I don't even bother to call a tomato. Every time I go to Europe, it's weird, but one of the things i absolutely crave is real tomatoes.

<comment><USER6> Huh? Anybody in America who grows tomatoes in their garden or who goes to a farmer's market where local tomatoes are in season has.

True that supermarkets don't carry them, but if you want one and live somewhere where they're grown, it's not too hard.

Also, supermarket cherry tomatoes and grape tomatoes tend to be pretty good, at least compared to the larger ones. Sure they're not the same as fresh from the garden, but they're still hugely more flavorful.

<comment><USER4> > Also, supermarket cherry tomatoes and grape tomatoes tend to be pretty good, > at least compared to the larger ones. Sure they're not the same as fresh > from the garden, but they're still hugely more flavorful.

That's what tells me the parent is right. Those are not _bad_, but they can't be considered as very good products, I swear. Sometime I wish I could just send gift tomatoes by email to random people.

<comment><USER5> Please send them to me. My "farmers markets" here are just selling the same boxes of produce the grocery store gets.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> It's amazing how many foods in their highest quality state are just two or three ingredients plus _time_.

Balsamic vinegar - Grapes, stored in wooden casks, allowed to age for 12-15 years, gradually moving the fluid to smaller and smaller barrels as the fluid evaporates and concentrates, until the final product fits into a small bottle.

Parmeggiano Reggiano - Unpasteurized cow's milk, with a little bit of lactic acid and rennet, packed, brined, and allowed to age for at least 12 months.

Whiskey - Distilled grain, stored in a charred oak cask and allowed to age for however many years.

Whenever we try to cheat the time factor, we inevitably introduce substitutes, additives, or agitators that result in a worse product at the trade-off of being faster to produce and more widely available.

<comment><USER8> That (JFYI) is Parm _igiano_ Reggiano.

Vinegar (balsamic or not) does need some "mycoderma aceti":

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_of_vinegar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_of_vinegar)

for many vinegar producers it is a "family treasure" often more than one century old.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I know nothing about soy sauce or brewing in general, so naturally I will now prescribe improvements to the process from my perch on HN:

Why not get rid of the ridiculously complicated (but truly beautiful) barrels, and instead use pieces of kioke wood, maybe from actual kioke barrels, in stainless vats? In other words, brew the soy sauce in stainless vats, but seed the cultures using pieces of wood that harbor the microbes. Why does the wood need to take the form of a barrel?

This would be similar to how I make traditional kefir, or how my mother makes kombucha. We just put the stuff in a glass jar (milk for kefir or tea+sugar for kombucha), and add bugs. In this process, a big piece of koike would serve the same purpose as kefir grains or a kombucha baby; it would supply the biology, and the brewing process in turn would feed the microbial colonies in the wood, the same way making kefir feeds the bugs in the kefir grains so you can keep using them indefinitely.

To anyone who actually knows about brewing: does this sound remotely plausible?

<comment><USER10> >Why not get rid of the ridiculously complicated (but truly beautiful) barrels, and instead use pieces of kioke wood, maybe from actual kioke barrels, in stainless vats? In other words, brew the soy sauce in stainless vats, but seed the cultures using pieces of wood that harbor the microbes. Why does the wood need to take the form of a barrel?

I do a lot of beer homebrewing, including long term lambic-style sour beers in barrels, which actually shares a lot of similarities with shoyu brewing.

Surface ratio is the big thing here. It affects not only how much of the flavor comes from the wood itself, but also oxygen ingress, etc. With shoyu it's open air, so a bit different compared to beer or wine which is usually aged in a sealed barrel, but it does affect the total amount of oxygen in there, even with an open fermentation. Oxygen will get in through wood, it won't through steel. But in general with chips or rods/spirals, you are imparting the wood flavor very quickly in comparison to a barrel, especially an old one. Depending on the biological interactions taking place, the organisms might not be able to process all of that in the same way they would over a longer period of time - they might have different reactions when some compounds are present in higher numbers, than if it is smaller. With beer brewing, if you are using brettanomyces strains of yeast, they produce entirely different flavors if the brett is used as the primary fermenter when there's tons of sugars available, or secondary/co-pitched fermenters where saccharomyces takes care of most of the sugars.

I expect you get different flavors from new kioke barrels as well - <USER2> microorganisms can eat the sugars in wood, so you're likely to have a different bioflora profile in something fermenting in a new barrel vs. one where it's all already been digested. And there's other processes that'll bring in flavors from fresh wood vs. old. It's a lot harder to maintain something like chips or even rods or spirals over the multiple decades of use you can get out of barrels.

It's not that I don't think all of those variables are possible to account for, in the theoretical sense, but no one has so far. Cantillon, a brewery in Belgium that is quite famous for their lambic beers has a sign in their brewery that translates to "Time does not respect that which is done without it", and in my experience, it's been true so far.

(Interestingly enough, there's other parallels with Cantillon here - <USER3> story talks about the microflora living in the eaves, etc. When expanding their barrel aging program to a new facility, they went and sprayed the whole thing down with their beer to try and jumpstart the microbes being in the environment.)

<comment><USER9> Fascinating. I see what you're saying: these thick pieces of wood, perpetually saturated for decades but open to the air on one side, with the gas diffusion that entails, are possibly homes to whole ecosystems. A world of microflora in each plank, and probably very complex chemical dynamics between the wood walls and the stuff inside. I think the article said there are differences in taste even between the different barrels. Also that Kikkoman was unable to replicate the process. Makes perfect sense now.

That thing you said about the brewery trying to transfer their microbiome to a new facility -- I've heard something similar about sourdough bakeries: that each is colonized by a unique population of bugs that results in a unique character of bread. It's a wild, wonderful idea to me.

Thank you for your comment; I learn so much here.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I have a bottle of traditionally made shoyu... and it tastes like.. soy sauce. Yes it's nicer than your average soy sauce — it has more complexity, but it's not magically something totally different.

<comment><USER12> I'll chime in too but about balsamic vinegar since someone else mentioned it. I've purchased store bought massed produced balsamic vinegar, American produced balsamic vinegar made in Napa, and DOP regulated balsamic vinegar aged 24 years from an acetaia in Modena. The difference between the first two is enormous. Massed produced balsamic vinegar is quite runny and quite "shallow" in favor. But between the latter two, the difference is much, much more subtle. For some things I honestly prefer the Whole Food purchased, produced in Napa balsamic vinegar I picked up for about $10 because I can really be a little indulgent. The Modena balsamic vinegar is almost too precious to use because the bottle is TINY and costed almost $50 (price I paid in Italy; double that if in the US). I mainly use it for special occasions or to flatter dinner guests. Also, Costco's IGP regulated balsamic is pretty comparable but I've found that their quality actually differs quite a bit between brands despite being regulated. But it's like $14 for a big bottle.

<comment><USER11> I also have some fancy balsamic aged 30+ years in this small town in Italy where I bought it at a food expo in Florence blhablhab... and it's AMAZING. And really expensive (like 80+ euros for the tiny thing). But it's also so thick you'd never use it the way you'd use most balsamics. There's a huge range in how balsamic can taste, and I believe you generally get what you pay for here.

The nice soy sauce is a bit more of diminishing returns for me personally.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Samin Nosrat visited this soy producer as part of her Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat show... the Salt episode is dedicated to Japan, where she also tries traditional miso (which is apparently similarly complex in its original form). Very interesting to watch if you haven't.

Joining the fray of the discussions above, I think we can acknowledge both the pros and the cons of the mass-availability of things that used to be hard to come by. It's true that the $150/bottle, traditional balsamic vinegar, in its special glass bottle (aged for a minimum of 15 years), is pretty far removed from even the good balsamics that can be found in most grocery stores. If you have a chance to try it, you'll gain a deeper understanding of what made balsamic vinegar special to begin with, and a better idea of why _some_ version of it is now available to everyone.

But, as others have said, that's not to say that commonly available balsamic vinegars are uniformly _bad_, either. There certainly _are_ bad mass-produced balsamic vinegars, but also plenty of mass-produced good ones that are perfectly appropriate for cooking or dressing a salad (or even having on their own, though for me they tend to me a bit too acidic-tasting to really enjoy, whereas the $150 bottle isn't) without breaking the bank.

I think the lesson we can learn from top-quality traditional balsamic, top- quality traditional soy sauce, and the like, is that these ingredients did use to have a deeper, much more complex flavor, and that we have traded some of that away -- out of necessity -- in order to make them available to a larger number of people at lower cost. I think there's a place for both versions, but also that we should acknowledge that they are _not_ the same; they're just optimizing for different goals.

</comment><comment><USER14> I'm not sure if I loved or hated that presentation format.

I had no idea there was anything so complicated to soy sauce! Apparently you can buy the good stuff from this article on Amazon, Yamaroku, it's $42 for 18 ozs.

So often I find when I try something that is supposed to be the BEST version of something (like wine for example) I just end of thinking "Well it's different, but I can't say it's OMG great", but I know I don't have "super taster" powers.

Can anyone comment on just how different this tastes from the usual stuff we get at the store or the usual stuff from the restaurants? Is it that much better?

<comment> gingerbread-man $42 on Amazon is a huge ripoff. I think it's about $20 a bottle at my local Asian grocery store. I like it, but I don't have "super taster" powers either so take that for what you will.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Is it just me or did the article play up the "the art of making kioke was almost lost forever" angle a little too much? The world as a whole has certainly not lost the art of making wooden fermentation barrels, as they are still widely used in many other industries, so the worst that might happen is needing to fly in some foreign coopers to examine the kioke and then start making copies using indigenous wood. I get that the Japanese might not count that as entirely authentic because they're heavy on tradition, but the results would be the same. Bacteria are the same everywhere.

<comment><USER16> Narrative is at the essence of what makes something premium, whether that narrative is true or not.

This is like the story around Yemeni coffee/Port of Mokha, Chinese companies buying defunct Japanese camera brands, etc. This happens with watch brands, clothing companies, motorcycles, etc.

That said, I'm a sucker for this bullshit and bought both of the 4-year aged sauces they sell. And yes, I bought Port of Mokha (which wasn't much different from other high-end coffee beans but at 2-3x the price) too

<comment><USER15> How was the "real" soy sauce? I'd totally buy some to try it. I definitely like soy sauce and can eat it on a lot of things.

And you're right about the narrative, but the BBC is in theory an impartial news organization, and shouldn't be playing into the narrative advertising requirements of the company being profiled. The fact is that even if the knowledge of making wooden barrels had been lost in Japan entirely, it could still be restarted by bringing in experts from abroad with no material differences in outcome. Fermenting for longer in wooden barrels definitely does affect the end result; exactly where the knowledge to build those barrels comes from so long as they're made of the same materials does not.

<comment><USER16> I won't receive it until April.

<comment><USER15> This article at least I'm sure will be good for their sales; too bad it's so hard for them to scale up production!

<comment><USER16> Yeah there were a few sources online where it would have been half the price but was out of stock.

I vastly overpaid Amazon. It's worth it to me though, because my approach to cooking is to take as few shortcuts as possible and start from the best, most- basic ingredients I can get my hands on. I tend to stick to Japanese, Korean and Mexican cuisines. Started doing my own fermentation this year with things like sauerkraut, hot sauces, miso...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Soy Source isn't from Japan. It originated from China. And if _real_ Soy source meant it is fermented in the old fashion, non industrialise way, there are actually a few Hong Kong brands still doing it and they are very much affordable.

The best one I tasted however came from South Korea, and it isn't available in any Retail Store as the Restaurant ( Or more like a Palace ) made it themselves.

<comment><USER18> Funny how so often gatekeeping involves rewriting history to ignore anything older than modern nation states :)

<comment><USER10> The article is about traditional Japanese soy sauce, or shoyu.

An article about traditional Chinese soy sauce, or jiangyou, would be very different. And the products are quite different as well.

Most of the Western world is thinking of Japanese style soy sauce when they just see 'soy sauce', though, and the BBC is targeting a western audience. They do explain in the article that it was originally imported to Japan from China.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> If you're in the US want to treat yourself to some good barrel aged soy sauce without any hassle, Kishibori Shoyu is on Amazon. It's at $20 for a small bottle, which is about 50-100% more than what it'll cost in a store (typical markup for Amazon specialty food products). I have seen it on store shelves in the US too.

Anyway, it's absolutely delicious and has a lot more complex flavor than your generic Kikkoman or whatever. For use only as a seasoning, cook with something cheaper. [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005GQYXTC/ref=oh_aui_sear...](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005GQYXTC/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8)

An article about this particular soy sauce: [https://www.epicurious.com/expert-advice/this-is-the-best- so...](https://www.epicurious.com/expert-advice/this-is-the-best-soy-sauce- article)

</comment><comment><USER20> Shouldn't it be possible to store and grow the bacteria at an industrial scale, just like large breweries grow and closely guard their secret yeast strands? If the wood is an essential part, why not line the steel vats with cedar?

<comment><USER21> Most breweries maintain a couple of different yeast cultures, each of which is a single strain of saccharomyces. Every organism in each sample is genetically identical, to the extent that's possible.

This is much more akin to sour breweries. They will have some samples, and they may even buy different fermenting organisms from yeast companies, but part of their appeal is the spontaneity and variety that comes from a mixed- culture fermentation. These kioke look like open-top foeders. Coolships are another tool used for wild and spontaneous fermentations.

Adding wood to steel vats might be possible, but you have to worry about the surface area to volume ratio.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> This little national geographic video is cool too - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMmyamL4VGw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMmyamL4VGw) 'A 750-Year-Old Secret: See How Soy Sauce Is Still Made Today'

</comment><comment><USER23> Most wasabi sold in the U.S. is green-dyed horseradish.

<comment><USER24> Yeah, because the real deal costs $130 per pound: [https://firstwefeast.com/eat/2014/09/real-wasabi-is-one- of-t...](https://firstwefeast.com/eat/2014/09/real-wasabi-is-one-of-the-most- expensive-crops-on-the-planet)

<comment><USER25> It's apparently not that hard to grow in a hydroponic setup, it needs flowing water though. wonder why no one has done that.

<comment><USER26> Everything I've heard is that it's incredibly difficult to grow commercially. That said, there's a company in Half Moon Bay that's doing it. I can't say I've tried enough authentic Japanese wasabi to make a reasonable comparison with the locally grown version, but I can say that both are worlds better than the green goop you'll find in almost all Japanese restaurants. I know people who can't handle the spice level of "normal" wasabi but have no problem with the real stuff - there's more flavor there than just "spicy", although it still carries a fair amount of heat. The grated version also has both texture and aromatics that you won't get in wasabi from a tube.

<comment><USER25> At $100/lb I think you could probbably do quite well doing it in small batches at home as a hobby.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> When I click through, the actual article title is "Is Japan losing its umami?"

I think that's probably the better title to use.

When I clicked through to the posted title "Showing the world how real soy sauce is supposed to taste", I was fully expecting the article to be about soy sauce in China, not in Japan.

</comment><comment><USER28> This educational programme from Japan shows the whole process [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmUoC10X_A0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmUoC10X_A0) understanding a little Japanese helps, but is not required.

</comment><comment><USER29> theres an anime called moyashimon - tales of agriculture that does a nice job of teaching you all about the fermented foods mostly japanese but some others as well. Its not a serious show by any means but it was interesting nonetheless!

</comment><comment><USER30> I remember being surprised when I discovered that most truffle oil is not made from truffles. Real truffle oil (e.g. olive oil infused with actual truffles) is a bit harder to find.

</comment><comment><USER31> funny instead how in the west we come full circle to use yeast to create that taste, so that the product label can claim 'no glutammate added'

this italian video goes to some length into it, and it has english subs [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-HDL2g4HYk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-HDL2g4HYk)

</comment><comment><USER32> Now I really want to try some traditionally brewed soy sauce.

</comment><comment><USER33> One thing I don't understand: there is a market for high-end soy sauce, balsamic vinegar, and olive oil.

Certain people will pay for food sold in the right context. Why is it so difficult for these producers to find that market?

<comment><USER34> It's not hard at all. That market is high end restaurants. Especially when I was in fine dining, we'd have farmers, importers and foragers showing up at the back door all the time with various vegetables, bottles of oils and vinegars, truffles, vanilla beans, etc... The market for individuals trying to buy these things is very small, but for restaurants, just look up rankings in a guide and show up at the top restaurants.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: What have you used to document your public API? - <AUTHOR>

Self-explanatory.<p>What tools/resources/docgens/services have you used to provide documentation for your public facing API services that you are providing to customers. <comment><USER2> I prefer hand-written. But other people like Swagger [https://developers.helloreverb.com/swagger/](https://developers.helloreverb.com/swagger/), I/O Docs [https://github.com/mashery/iodocs](https://github.com/mashery/iodocs), Daux (although this is just a style framework) [http://daux.io/](http://daux.io/) and [http://apiary.io/](http://apiary.io/)

</comment><comment><USER3> We use a wiki (Dokuwiki) for internal docs, probably going to either make it public or perhaps switch over to Daux.io once I'm satisfied it doesn't hate America.</comment>


Trump to sign executive order on social media amid Twitter furor - <AUTHOR> https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/27/trump-executive-order-social-media-twitter-285891 <comment><USER2> Despite longstanding illegalities of trying to bully social networks, Trump's executive order to kill Twitter's fact-checking will probably be waged through the FCC.

I suspect he'll grant new draconian powers with NO congressional approval whatsoever. "His" FCC will comply, WTF lawsuits will be filed, Twitter shuts up, and he amps up his mail-in ballot propaganda!

<comment><USER3> My read of the article is that the idea is to remove protections granted by Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act from social media companies if they engage in "editorializing" user content.

If that really is the case, to pretend that this is straightforward feels somewhat disingenuous. Surely there is a boundary somewhere at which a media platform is no longer simply a provider of an interactive computer service-- though I won't pretend to know where it is.

In my view, the problem with Twitter's action isn't that they engaged in a form of editorializing, it's that (as far as I can tell) they have no explicit policy on how and when they apply the fact-check label. Absent such a policy, it is impossible (ok, maybe just very difficult) to gauge what level of reporting bias is present. If such a policy existed, one could imagine processing a data set matching the policy to determine how closely their actions align with the policy. Absent such a policy, it become a he-said she said argument about bias-- the right will contend Twitter applies the label to them more than the left, and the left will counter that the right lies more and that's why.</comment></comment>


Introducing Action Messager: Dead simple IM notifications for your app! - <AUTHOR> http://jamesgolick.com/2008/4/7/introducing-action-messager-dead-simple-im-notifications-for-your-app <comment><USER2> FTFA

"Caveats

Currently, only jabber is supported. It is possible to access other IM services over jabber, but I'm not 100% clear how it works, and I don't yet have need for it, so that may or may not come later."</comment>


Show HN: I launched my first self-promoted Lifetime Deal - <AUTHOR> https://simvoly.com/a/hn-lifetimedeal <comment><AUTHOR> Hey HN,

I'm Stan, Co-Founder of Simvoly and this week we launched our first Lifetime deal that we promote on our own. Before I continue, in Simvoly we are building a different type of a platform combining funnels, websites, and e-commerce with a 100% white label program (meaning that anyone can promote their own version of the platform).

Why we decided to run a Lifetime deal to promote our new Funnel Academy to change how businesses are selling or generating leads online. The idea is not to appeal to the Lifetime deal community because they are really hard to upsell and a lifetime deal is not great for growth.

First, we created this super easy flow with a funnel on our platform. The landing page explained the platform well and make it super simple to capture one of the 3 deals. Yes, we released 3 lifetime deals and surprisingly for us, not the middle one but the top (10 funnel deal) is our best-seller.

We decided to target people who are already paying for other funnel or page builders to help them make a quick jump and test our product. We know that one they try it, they will most likely convert to us as we are superior to the competition.

Ways to promote you may ask? We, of course, targeted LTD groups as a jump- starting community but we also made it SUPER simple to share the deal with others and earn 35% affiliate for every customer. We got people sharing in all sorts of groups and websites to create a viral effect. We are also doing remarketing in google and facebook + more ads in facebook focused on entrepreneurs, funnel communities and similar.

The deal is still running (until Cyber Monday) if you want to check it out.

To summarize, it is so much better to run your own lifetime deal to promote a new release to an existing audience and finding new customers similar to what you have because you know who you are targeting. You know that they can bring value and the LTD is just a way to attract attention and noise around your product. Platforms like Appsumo and similar are great for just starting companies to find best testers and get some traction but for a growing company - do your own promos and targeting.

<comment><USER2> Is this like Amway or Herbalife or Scientology?

<comment><AUTHOR> No, this is a Website/Funnel building tool that helps business, freelancers, marketers, agencies to build super fast and easy to sell online, generate leads or promote their products/services.</comment></comment></comment>