Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile - <AUTHOR> https://slate.com/technology/2019/03/uber-lyft-strike-ipo-los-angeles-san-francisco.html <comment><USER2> So many parallels to the music industry here.

You have a vc-funded company, operating at a loss, commoditizing the "talent" (drivers/musicians), thereby conditioning the audience (passengers/listeners) to expect an unsustainable cost for the service, using that loss leader mentality to drive other solutions out of business, until they argue or take action that the talent should expect even lower rates than they've historically gotten so the company can have a shot at being profitable. When the larger effect is that the company has captured value that used to go to the talent and then instead goes to the investors.

<comment><USER3> Unlike the music industry, there aren't a whole lot of people who would just be a cab driver for free in their spare time even if there was no money in it.

<comment><USER4> I've heard many stories of drivers who do it to help keep drunk drivers of the road. There was a German Rideshare website I used (8+ years ago) that had decent popularity without requiring payment within the website. In this case I think we'd need to define "a whole lot" to try and compare the two.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> My brother works for uber, He is 54 years old smokes a pack day and has had 2 heart attacks. He drives a Cadillac and pays $500-month for commercial insurance and has a monthly payment for his car. He has TLC plates to work in NYC ( fees apply) he makes about $300 a day works like a dog 12-14 hours a day. All of his friends are the same (uber drivers in NYC) Here you have the typical uber driver who does this for a living as his main gig not some side gig while building a start up or some bullshit side thing. These are the left over drivers from when the yellow cab money / industry dried up in NYC. The job is literally killing him. It's the classic frog in boiling water syndrome. The story is often used as a metaphor for the inability or unwillingness of people to react to or be aware of sinister threats that arise gradually rather than suddenly. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog)

<comment><USER6> > He smokes a pack day and has had 2 heart attacks

> The job is literally killing him

I don't mean to be snide or to blame your brother (addiction is a powerful thing), but I'd say that maintaining a smoking habit despite having suffered not one but _two_ heart attacks sounds more like putting a frog in a pot with some water, splashing boiling water into the pot twice, scalding the frog both times, and having the frog decide to stick around and see what happens next.

<comment><USER7> Ive tried to get a plethora of acquaintances and coworkers to try vape, the upfront cost of a good quality reliable one-device system can easily exceed a couple hundred dollars. The majority of people who I discuss this with are upfront-cost conscious above all, they just have $5 a day (or 2 packs a NY day being $14 a day) and have too little money to gamble, in their mind, on will vaping work.

Scholarly articles on nicotine replacement show that for every person who successful quits using that it costs around $7k, magnitudes more $$ than vape. For some people nicotine is one of the only things they have that makes them hate life less and be able to cope better. On some level I find it unfair that people should say 'well you shouldn't do that categorically' when the vast majority of people have their own individual preferences on vice.

<comment><USER6> Thanks for your perspective; I didn't know any of those costs.

Everyone has their own individual vice preferences, but some vices are demonstrably worse for health than others. I'm not one to tell a person to quit smoking, but it seems likely that in this case, the guy's two heart attacks did just that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> The IRS deduction for business vehicle use in 2019 is 58 cents per mile. So they have effectively reduced the per mile payment to the cost of operating the vehicle.

Seems like they are on the verge of turning driving for Uber into a reverse mortgage for your car.

<comment><USER9> And quite frankly the business model might be to just bank on a steady supply of ex-criminals who have a hard time getting other work and may not understand the financial arrangement they are entering into. Exploit them for a while and when they realize they aren't making money, just chalk it up to built-in turnover and on to the next unwitting driver.

<comment><USER10> > Exploit them for a while and when they realize they aren't making money

Between all the happy drivers who you begin to notice are just 2 weeks in, and also knowing they are homeless while they are driving in this area makes it harder to support the service

But there is also a reason they drove 100 miles from Sacramento and turned on the app.

<comment><USER11> You could tip your driver if you believe they deserve higher pay.

<comment><USER10> when I say "support" this is more about imagining whether it is a sustainable business model or not and just enjoying the luxury while it lasts

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> My girlfriend tried out the Instacart gig for a while as she finally got her chronic low energy and fatigue addressed through B12 shots and wanted something to occupy her and give her a little extra spending money outside of what's budgeted.

That experience was absolutely demoralizing in terms of what she was able to actually make. Granted we live in a lower density city in the southeast so that result makes sense. But everything is very skewed toward the company in the case of Instacart...mileage reimbursement is from the store to the delivery...and you can be sent 10-15 miles from your point of origin to the store to purchase goods at.

I'm not surprised at all that Uber (and the gig economy as a whole) are squeezing their "independent contractor labor force" given that for them it's just a stepping stone toward a fully autonomous pipeline. The calculus here isn't toward establishing and maintaining a happy and committed workforce but bridging the gap between funding and profitability through autonomous solutions.

I don't know what the answer is but I couldn't imagine being in a position where one of the few viable options available for any sort of gainful employment was working as part of the "gig" economy.

edit: If that rate is intended to also cover fuel costs then fuel can easily eat up >10% of that $0.60/mi rate. Man.

<comment><USER13> I guess they should form a union and strike.

<comment><USER12> I imagine that would only be orders of magnitude harder to manager in this circumstances than in previous generations.

Especially for Uber who can incentivize payouts in an elastic fashion as the available labor pool shrinks. Service quality might decline a bit as available drivers decrease...but Uber won't even have to explicitly go out and find "scabs" \- they can simply temporarily surge pricing to entice some of the drivers who either aren't striking or who aren't as committed.

Difficult indeed to really cut at the heart of Uber in this case and really swing some leverage as organized labor.

Especially with the setback face in U.S. court.

<comment><USER14> I mean, the surge in pricing wouldn't even be a thing someone has to do. It would just happen automatically.

That's the whole problem with this issue: Uber has made the market for taxis/rides incredibly liquid, which has driven the prices down to pretty much exactly the marginal costs. There are plenty of people who have already sunk the cost of a car, and have nothing else to do, so it still makes economic sense to do this with their time.

If the demand for unskilled labor doesn't increase, this will get worse.

<comment><USER15> Uber operates with a loss. The prices are under marginal cost. The drivers have no scale benefits like ordinary Taxi companies when it comes to buying cars or maintenance.

It only makes economical sense to drive for Uber with the car if you can't sell it for a good price (you know the car is good and not abused, the buyer doesn't) and that you don't plan on buying a new car after the wheels fall off on the present one, or you need to liquidize your assets a little bit, i.e. getting approx. 100USD for decreasing the value of the car and buying gas driving for Uber for 100USD.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I did Uber driving a while ago. I just called Uber support and they told me that my pay in the Bay Area is now 68 cents per mile and 29 cents per minute. In November it was 99 cents per mile and 18 cents per minute. I've randomly pulled up a ride I gave in November in which I took a guy 3.8 miles taking 17 minutes. Back then I was paid 8.5 and if I did it today I would have been paid 9.1. Shorter trips would of course not fare so well. But short trips suck even with higher pay per mile because short trips rack up dead miles — the unpaid miles between trips.

Before, I prioritized miles. Getting the most miles in the shortest amount of time seemed like the best thing to do although I never sat down and thouroughly worked out what strategy would pay the most. There are lots of subtleties that make the calculation difficult. But with this new pay scheme it might actually pay off to go slowly. This would make rides safer overall but might increase incidences of missing an exit when your fare is lost in instagram.

Maintaining a Toyota Corolla costs roughly 20 cents per mile, especially if you do your own oil changes. And that includes depreciation.

If anyone from Uber happens to read this, I have to say that paying for dead miles would do a lot of good. I would happily give up tips for paid dead miles. Eliminating dead miles would allow drivers to drive anywhere and change the equation in a way that would be very beneficial to Uber overall as a service.

Also add a tiny fee for people who cancel ride after ride looking for the shortest eta. On average a driver wastes 20 cents every time someone does that, probably. So charge 20 cents for cancelling even if it's immediately. The small group of people who like to treat Uber like an eta slot machine can do so, drivers won't sit and wait for several minutes to trigger the cancelation fee and the vast majority of riders who don't do it will only see a small improvement in service quality with no increase in price.

<comment><USER17> I think the cancellation fees uber in particular charges are bullshit and I always dispute them with the credit card if uber doesn't give me credit. Every single one has been for a driver taking a trip that's way too far away, estimated wait time of two to three minutes becoming ten to fifteen minutes or more. If the driver who knows they are taking this trip and won't get there for over ten minutes but the eta is three minutes, why should I pay a cancellation fee when I finally cancel after waiting five minutes? That is total bullshit. Often the driver hasn't even finished his previous trip. I don't know whose fault it is, the driver's or uber's. The software should not allow a driver to take a trip with a short eta knowing that it'll take four or five times longer, sometimes before he even finishes his previous trip, but since it does, the driver should be aware of how far away he is and not take a trip he knows he's going to be way over the eta for. In this scenario, everyone loses.

<comment><USER18> Maybe something is wrong with you for thinking you can get a ride anywhere anytime in less than 5 minutes.

Uber is assigning the rides, consistently incorrectly showing 3 minutes away and with a ride to finish sometimes.

<comment><USER19> Its a pretty regular occurance to see plenty of cars orbiting on your map, then the one that snags your request is 5 miles away going the wrong way on the highway with another fare, and you sit on your hands. Drivers tap rides without even looking at them just to get it first and have a fare ready, regardless if it makes sense timing wise. I've seen it from the passenger seat.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> This must impact quality at some point. Either driver competence will decline or vehicle maintenance will be dangerously put off.

<comment><USER21> When I take a Lyft or Uber ride the vehicle is frequently showing some sort of warning light or overdue maintenance indicator on the dashboard.

<comment><USER22> Speaking as a tire/lube shop technician, a large percentage of the general populace has a warning light of some sort on at any time... Maybe %20 (that we see, if course) in our coverage area, which is a 20k population city and the surrounding rural area.

<comment><USER23> How often, would you guess, is it a bad sensor vs. an actual vehicle operational issue?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> [https://www.dailynews.com/2019/03/22/uber-drivers-prepare- to...](https://www.dailynews.com/2019/03/22/uber-drivers-prepare-to-strike- over-25-percent-cut-in-wages/)

Found more context:

"In September 2018, we increased the per-minute rate and minimum fares in hopes of making it more worthwhile to drive with Uber in L.A.," the company said. "Unfortunately, these changes did not have the intended impact."

As a result, Uber said it was increasing the per-minute rate drivers earn but reducing the per-mile rate and minimum fare. The per-minute rate jumped from 15 cents to 21 cents. But the minimum fare dropped from $3.75 to $2.62 and the more crucial per-mile rate dropped from 80 cents to 60 cents.

[https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2019/03/uber-lyft- nyc...](https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2019/03/uber-lyft-nyc-la- driver-wage-strike/585715/)

Organizers with Rideshare Drivers United started planning Monday's action two weeks ago, responding to Uber's decision to reduce per-mile fares from 80 cents to 60 cents—months after the company raised rates from 60 to 80 in September 2018. Uber says it's now reversing the move to put its fares more in line with other ride-share companies, and that it expects the net effect of this 25 percent cut will mean that average driver earnings will return to the same level as before the September increase. Uber also noted that it increased its per-minute rate again on March 11. Lyft, meanwhile, has not changed driver rates in the city of L.A. for 12 months.

</comment><comment><USER25> If I were Uber, or any ridesharing service, I'd be optimizing to pay driver's as much as possible. But that's just me.

<comment><USER26> In what world would that make business sense?

Apparently they already lose money (counting marketing costs and incentives) per ride, how can they expect to operate a going concern by striving to increase expenses?

<comment><USER25> If you need drivers to stay on the platform, and acquiring drivers is extremely expensive, paying them less won't help with driver retention (unless you're making them so rich they retire). If you engage in a race to the bottom on rates with your competition, you'll end up having to spend more on driver acquisition and retention.

If you take care of your drivers, they will want to drive for you more frequently, and your rides will have more drivers available. Sure, the price of rides will be a bit higher, maybe a lot higher, but it'll be sustainable.

And here's me speculating... there's only one case where lowering driver pay makes sense, and that's lowering your prices to drive someone else out of business. If Uber is facing so much competition from Lyft & others, they won't be around once people get sick of giving them money. And by pissing off their drivers, they're creating a spot in the market for a higher end competitor to come in. Once a socially responsible, fair trade competitor gets established, it'll be hard for Uber to raise their rates again, because they have a bottom of the barrel reputation.

Of course I'm not in charge of running a ride sharing company, and there are plenty of people who have good intentions at suck at business. Maybe I'm one of the people that naturally walks the path of good intentions that leads straight to hell. Who knows.

<comment><USER27> I'm going to put an alternative view here.

My guess is Uber has actually done enough legwork and figured out that contrary to these sob stories in the press, there are more than enough drivers that 1) have efficient vehicles that are cheaper to operate and 2) are willing to work for that profit in quantities to cover demand.

If the rates Uber is providing drivers are so dismal they're protesting in the street, frankly, they should quit. No one is forcing drivers into a money- losing proposition. I'm especially unsympathetic given that they're paid on a per-transaction basis and there are alternative ridesharing companies out there.

Those drivers can go work for a company that charges more for rides, and passengers who care about that can choose that option. The fact that passengers currently seem unwilling to pay for that (somehow we never consider it "socially responsible" that passengers are provided cheaper service...) makes me think that will be unlikely in the short term.

<comment><USER28> Right?? So many commenters are acting as if these drivers are somehow obligated to work there. Just. Go. Elsewhere. You are not entitled to the perfect job simply because you are alive. What the hell happened to personally responsibility/accountability?

<comment><USER25> The solution to getting a better job is not simply leaving your current job. A lot of people have a shit job because they can't get a better job. A lot if people are homeless because they can't get a job at all. It's not that damn simple.

Source: white middle class male in San Francisco couldn't get a job for most if 2009, eventually ended up homeless.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> I remember talking to a driver back in the early days of Uber X (probably 2012-ish) who told me he was on track to make $80k driving for Uber that year. Wow have things changed.

<comment><USER4> The trick today or to drive more during surge pricing hours. One of my drivers claimed to be making close to that. I suspect a large factor is also the city you drive in.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> This sounds terrible and I would hate to be a Uber driver who has to digest this news over the coming days and weeks.

</comment><comment><USER31> Its like they see developers and drivers as two different species. For every twenty something dev that makes $132K, there is a fourty something trying to rebuild a life post-trauma, doing their best to net $13K. Since insurance and gas aren't cheaper, the driver now will net $6K next year, while the dev would jump ship to another company if they didn't get a $6K bonus. While my head understands the economic principles that drive that reality, my heart doesn't understand how such a thing needs to happen.

<comment><USER32> Same with canteen workers, janitors and so forth. It's the reality of this economy without any intervention.

>my heart doesn't understand how such a thing needs to happen.

That's why developers, who have the economic leverage, should stand up for everyone working at their companies, including staff that isn't involved in technical work.

<comment><USER33> So would the tech workers cut 10% of their salary and gift it to those working for low pay in other roles?

I think it's overwhelmingly no. The option where the company shareholders take less profit is not even on the table - and that's what needs tackling, and the only way to tackle that is via a mix of govt welfare and unions. But the cultural narrative has shifted to the right so much that even mentioning the word union will cause a chilling effect on your career. No ones' gonna do it.

<comment><USER34> If I gave up 10% of my salary and someone else making much less got to raise of the equivalent of my 10%, I'd do it in a heart beat.

<comment><USER35> Couldn't you easily do exactly that any time you want?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> Sooner or later the us is going to have to sit down and have a long and hard conversation about this "independent contractor" nonsense.

<comment><USER28> Why do you think it's even a remotely good idea to tell people when, where, and how they spend their time and energy?

<comment><USER36> You could apply that kind of thinking to all labour laws. Should the minimum wage be abolished? Vacation time? Overtime?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> [https://therideshareguy.com/uber-lowering- rates/](https://therideshareguy.com/uber-lowering-rates/) is a detailed analysis of these (or very similar) changes. It's more complex than this headline or article makes it seem. The gist is that, at least in the markets covered by TheRideShareGuy's article, mileage rates are going down a little and time rates are going up significantly.

</comment><comment><USER38> I think "in LA" deserves a mention in the title.

<comment><USER39> nah

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> I can't quite understand the economics of this rate drop (which happened only in the LA market, btw). Here's my analysis, please let me know if you see anything wrong with it.

Uber makes 25% commission from the per-mile fee, so the total revenues to Uber and to the drivers is moving in the same direction. I assume Uber wouldn't drop the rate unless their revenue increased. So they must know that (1) the lower fee will be more than offset by the increased demand, and (2) they will have enough drivers to meet that greater demand.

It must be that the total money received by all drivers will go up. So each driver will make more money before expenses (not per hour, but in total).

How will Uber meet the increased demand? Sure, the drivers will be better utilized (less time without passengers), but would that really be enough? Or does Uber expect the drivers will work longer hours? I suppose it's possible that people really desperate for cash will work more even as they are paid (a lot) less. That would be both very sad and very hard to believe (since at this point McDonalds pays better than Uber, after accounting for gas and wear & tear on the car).

Anyway, if somehow the hours per driver stay the same, the gross income per hour will grow. Income after expenses will grow by an even greater percentage.

I really would like to understand whether the increased gross revenue per driver will come from longer hours or not.

<comment><USER41> You're overcomplicating it somewhat by separating things out that could reasonably just be averaged together.

The real question is what the supply and demand curves look like. It's possible for everyone to make more money by reducing prices and making it up on volume, if that's what happens.

If you're a driver and you currently spend a lot of time sitting around waiting for riders, and the lower prices reduce that wasteful idle time, you can end up making more money, even working the same number of hours, by driving more miles in the same number of hours.

But that's assuming the lower prices spur sufficient additional demand to compensate for the lower rate per mile, which is going to depend on the specifics of the local market.

<comment><USER40> I agree with you. I guess I'm asking how likely is the (quite appealing) scenario you describe?

The volume increase will more than offset the price drop -- otherwise Uber would have no incentive to drop the price in the first place. What else do we need to know to predict the outcome on drivers pay?

<comment><USER41> Predicting this kind of stuff is a rabbit hole. Suppose there is a strip of struggling restaurants downtown in an area with insufficient parking, so that your ride service is the best way to get there. If you lower prices by $.10/mile, you just lose money. If you lower prices by $.20/mile, the lower transportation cost allows the restaurants get enough new customers that they can make improvements, and then the restaurant improvements attract even more customers. Those customers are also your customers, and having many customers going to and from the same small area is your best case scenario because it allows you to pick up and drop off in the same place at the same time, so then you make more money too.

It's generally easier to just try it and see what happens, and then deduce the how from the what. Note however that this will not necessarily be the same thing that happens in another area or at another time, because of all the things that can be different and affect the outcome.

<comment><USER40> If Uber was not reasonably confident in their predictive models, they'd be shifting rates by like 1% per week to test the waters, instead of 25% in a day. And if Uber can have good predictive models, maybe independent economists who study this market could make somewhat decent predictions as well.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> I just got back from Brazil. There is a startup ride sharing service called 99 that is interesting.

As a comparison, a ride that costs 40 R$ (~$12 USD) on Uber will cost half that on 99. And, I heard while I was there that incredibly 99 pays the drivers more.

I don't know if this is a technical advancement that 99 hasn't needed to make the massive investment that Uber did now that lots more is understood about the ride sharing market, or if Brazilian VCs are pumping money in, or what. But, I experimented with 99 and it was much cheaper.

I stopped using them when a driver let the fare run for an hour after I got out of the vehicle. Unlike Uber there is no cancel button. I'm not sure if this was fraud or he turned off his phone or what, but the experience was terrible trying to get it resolved for an hour.

The most interesting thing is that there are startups attacking the incumbents (Uber and Lyft). The exciting thing is that Uber demonstrated incredible growth patterns like no company we've ever seen. I wonder if it will demonstrate shrinkage like nothing we've ever seen. I have no loyalty to them but Lyft isn't in Brazil and after that experience with 99 I stopped using it.

Fun times.

<comment><USER43> in Colombia, there's an app that allows the person soliciting the ride to offer a price, then various drivers can either counter offer or take the fare as bid

<comment><USER42> As a foreigner, I would hate that choice. I want to use an app that makes me feel like the parties are aligned on the agreement. When the driver didn't cancel my fare, it made me suspect he was needing to cheat me to make it fair, and I stopped using 99 completely since I started to assume everyone would need to do something like that to make money. A poor marketplace if that is the case.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> My wife and I have had a little different experience. About 1.5 years ago we took up deliervinf food with Caviar/Uber eats to get out and pay for our dates. She and I would go for 2 hours maybe 2-3 nights a week. On average she and I both made ~$26 per hour. Since we rode bikes we paid no insurance/parking/etc. I tried once doing it for 8 hours a day and my earnings went down to like $6 per hour.

</comment><comment><USER45> This seems like a bad idea on the grounds that the backlash is likely to put Uber in a worse position by further making the case for unions and employment benefits. But that will likely happen after the IPO when they've used this to juice their revenue.

</comment><comment><USER46> Naively this does seem like it should be an industry where the take could be small. I don't understand why Uber and Lyft are losing money actually.

</comment><comment><USER47> How does dropping rates make any sense when gas prices are on the rise?

<comment><USER48> More profit for Uber? They don't give a f..k about the drivers.

<comment><USER49> Uber has never made a profit.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> In Chicago traffic I think that'd equate to maybe $3 an hour

</comment><comment><USER51> good. The (car)-sharing industry can't die soon enough

</comment><comment><USER52> Lyft and Uber allow you to tip your driver. If you feel like they're not payed a sustainable wage, why not voluntarily give them more money?

I suspect a significant number of riders are pretty well off. Why not be exceedingly generous? Tip the driver 10 or 20$.

<comment><USER33> I do not like the idea that tipping is required for sustainable pay.

tipping should be a bonus, for a job well done. Tipping is meant to be a reward for extra-mile service. Tipping is NOT for just merely doing the job.

By making tipping part of sustainable wage, you're just subsidising the wages that the employer should be paying. It's both unfair and unethical.

<comment><USER52> I'm paying the person I received the service from. Me handing someone extra cash is neither unfair nor unethical.

If you feel like Uber is doing something wrong there's a trivial solution. Just pay your driver more.

Sure it doesn't solve Uber's problems, it doesn't change the behavior of anyone else, but it does solve your personal culpability. (If you feel you have such culpability)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> > As independent contractors who can't unionize

Anyone can unionise (well apart from military, law enforcement, prison guards, etc).

Even unemployed people can join unions. Whether your employer chooses to have anything to do with your union is another matter of course.

<comment><USER54> Uh, law enforcement unions are huge and very influential

<comment><USER53> Ah must be different to the UK then.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER55> These people are complaining that they're not being paid enough.

Isn't the proper solution to find another job? If more people stopped driving for ridesharing companies the prices would rise to attract them back. I don't see why they are complaining when unemployment is at an all time low and they can find a job easily elsewhere. It sounds stupid.

<comment><USER56> A lot of people turn to jobs like Uber because they can't easily find a job. There are many people who desperately try for weeks or months to find employment. Companies like Uber love to prey on such people.

<comment><USER49> I don't really understand this argument. Uber didn't create the conditions causing these people not to be able to find better jobs. If Uber stopped "preying on" these people, would they be better off? It seems like they'd just be unemployed.

<comment><USER56> A slave owner gives an otherwise hungry man food and housing. That doesn't mean slavery is at all justifiable.

Uber pays people who otherwise might not have a job at all. That doesn't mean paying them incredibly low wages is something that should be free of criticism.

<comment><USER57> > A slave owner gives an otherwise hungry man food and housing. That doesn't > mean slavery is at all justifiable.

Slave by its very definition implies lack of choice by the other person.

> Uber pays people who otherwise might not have a job at all. That doesn't > mean paying them incredibly low wages is something that should be free of > criticism.

Yes, actually, it does mean that. That's the nature of _choice_.

If someone is offering you something you otherwise would not have, you don't get the right to complain that they are not giving you more.

<comment><USER4> I'm not following your logic, are you suggesting you wouldn't ask for a raise?

There are a lot of moving pieces. The abolishment of slavery didn't end slavery and it's conditions. It changed the name and the rules. Many slaves became trapped in indentured servitude without enough pay to cover the cost of housing. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servitude](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servitude) Eventually this became illegal as well, another tactic was paying employees through company credits to buy goods at the company store. Eventually this too became illegal. During all of this Jim Crow laws were made to prevent further integration, schooling, and the advancement to higher paying jobs. The origin of the phrase grandfather clause came about as a way to prevent voting for representatives who could represent them. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_clause](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_clause)

This hasn't ended either, we now deal with gerrymandering.

I don't believe the ability choose a log of last resort means that job can be free of criticism. Yes it provides a vital service: given that service is insufficient to meet basic needs, improvements are needed. That may mean better services to provide jobs or providing a minimum pay with which basic needs can be guaranteed.

<comment><USER49> > given that service is insufficient to meet basic needs, improvements are > needed

Sure, and why is it Uber's responsibility to make those improvements?

<comment><USER56> Is your argument that companies have zero responsibility to pay their employees reasonably?

What is even the purpose of a company? Make unicorn valuation through low wages, write a couple blog posts, then dip?

<comment><USER49> > Is your argument that companies have zero responsibility to pay their > employees reasonably?

Yeah, that sums it up. Companies have a responsibility to keep the agreements they make, and to not _harm_ anyone. They don't have a positive responsibility to _improve_ people's lives -- they're not charities.

> What is even the purpose of a company?

To make some people better off than they were before, by way of voluntary exchange, without hurting anyone.

If they're not doing that, if they're actually making people worse off than they would be otherwise, then that should of course be stopped.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Here's why Bitcoin will be bigger than the internet - <AUTHOR> http://www.businessinsider.com.au/how-bitcoin-may-have-more-impact-than-the-internet-2015-2 <comment><USER2> Saying a subset of the internet will be bigger than the internet is a complete failure of logic.</comment>


Jonathan Abrams (Friendster Founder) live on Namesake - <AUTHOR> http://namesake.com/conversation/brian/right-now-conversation-social-networking

<comment><USER2> Out of curiosity, aside from Friendster which companies has Jonathan built? Also, didn't Friendster falter greatly, enough to make it second-fiddle, due to its inability to scale? Finally, wasn't socializer a flop -- I haven't been back in a really really long time - but, jsut checked it and the site looks like its from '99.

<comment><AUTHOR> He managing partner at Founder's Den in SF & he said he's working on a new project now... gave some funny mock details.

<comment><AUTHOR> he also mentioned that he rarely reads blogs or podcasts but checks Hacker News daily.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Posting on new releases - <AUTHOR> Hi!
I posted a news on HN a week ago about a small project of mine getting publicly released for the first time. No business involved. Audience is limited but helps me to improve the application by submitting suggestions or asking questions following a logic I didn't think about before.
It is a good thing for the project so I would like to keep spreading the word.
Would it be considered as spam if I keep posting here about new releases, say a couple of times a month? <comment><USER2> The rules for "Show HN:" posts say you should not keep posting new versions.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html)

> " _New features and upgrades ( "Foo 1.3.1 is out") generally aren't > substantive enough to be Show HNs. A major overhaul is probably ok._"

<comment><AUTHOR> The question was not much about "new release" posting, more about spreading the word about a new project. And news could be written in a more "creative" way.

I asked the original question because a one shot news will not necessary gets "enough" attention, depending on the time or the day it has been posted for example.

Also I've read that: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11237340](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11237340)

<comment><USER2> I think you misread the comment from Dan (dang); he clearly qualified his statement with, "in about a year." Which is the same as stated in the HN FAQ:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html)

>" _Are reposts ok?_ "

>" _If a story has had significant attention in the last year or so, we kill reposts as duplicates. If not, a small number of reposts is ok._ "

If you want to spread the word about your project, you'll be better served by doing something interesting with it, blogging about the interesting thing you did, and submitting said blog post to HN. As long as you can keep doing interesting things with your project, you'll keep getting plenty of attention here.

<comment><AUTHOR> Fair enough, thanks for taking the time to answer</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Prototype Quadrotor with Machine Gun - <AUTHOR> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNPJMk2fgJU

<comment><USER2> I told them Skynet is real and they wouldn't believe me!</comment>


Riding the Elliot hype rollercoaster: and now what? - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/the-theam-journey/riding-the-elliot-hype-rollercoaster-and-now-what-94878c50560a <comment><AUTHOR> This week Elliot was canceled, leaving us with one of the greatest cliffhangers of the decade, but what can we learn from this? What do we, as a community, do now? I've written a summary of what happened and a proposal.</comment>


What Happens Inside a 100-hop IPv6 Wireless Mesh Network? - <AUTHOR> http://www.thingsquare.com/blog/articles/100-hops-ipv6-mesh/ <comment><AUTHOR> We do so many cool things here at Thingsquare (thus, obvious disclaimer, I'm at Thingsquare), and we want to share it (and brag of course).

It's sometimes better not to go too deep into details in the post itself, but one cool thing I want to point out is in the last gif animation of the blog post which shows radio traffic throughout the mesh network. It shows transmissions over time, and each line from top to bottom is a device in the network. So we see forwarded packets as a diagonal line in the graph, and depeding on how large (how many bytes and fragments) the data is, the diagonal line leans more since it takes longer. Pretty cool, imo.</comment>


My 2015 MacBook Pro Retina Exploded - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@dourvaris/my-2015-macbook-pro-retina-exploded-119ea5ea9d1f#.pgd3f8jme <comment><USER2> I get the whole "cautionary tale" thing, but you should probably contact Apple to remedy both your personal loss and so that they have more information about failing components. In my experience they take this stuff very seriously.

<comment><USER3> Same. I had an issue with a failed charger many years ago, and in addition to getting a new charger, I was contacted by their product safety group for more information on how it was used to make it stronger in the future. Confirmed, they take product safety seriously.

> In fact it could be happening to your battery right now.

Yes, any lithium battery in any device could have this problem. Odds are good that it was swelling before it finally failed, and if the machine hadn't been restarted and instead had been checked, that may have been identified. Would this article be getting the same traction if it wasn't a MacBook?

<comment><USER4> I had the exact opposite experience, I went in to a store with a MacBook Pro (2013) which had morphed by a good 1-2cm's due to the battery expanding over the course of the previous hour. They refused to take it and insisted I book a genius appointment for the following week.

After much insisting (30-40minutes) they finally agreed to take the battery and keep it in their safe for a week, until the first available genius appointment was available. There they said it was out of warranty as its a disposable part and therefore not covered by the AppleCare+ plan I had at the time. Genuinely it was the worst experience I've had in an apple store to date.

<comment><USER5> You might have countered with _I understand it isn 't covered by AppleCare. I suppose we'll found out if it's covered by Apple liability._

<comment><USER6> But then we couldn't have snarky internet posts about how terrible Apple is!

<comment><USER7> True but we'd get snarky internet posts about the cleverness of their in-house legal defense team.

<comment><USER8> "most valuable company on Earth sues man whose testicles they burned off" is about the worst PR possible

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> > _After reading up on the matter it seems that lithium batteries can swell, > and there have been numerous reports in the past about older MacBook > batteries swelling up and catching fire — however with the newer unibody > laptops there is no way you can see this swelling happening._

That's true. Damn, Apple, how about a bloody sensor for such stuff at least to give an early warning?

> _If you have a MacBook be careful leaving it unattended on the bed, battery > fires burn hot and fast with little time to react._

Whereas if you have any other brand it's OK?

 _Millions of computer users were on red alert last night after they were warned that their laptops could burst into flames at any moment. In an extraordinary admission, the world 's largest computer firm, Dell, said yesterday that 4.1 million laptops are at risk. The computer giant was forced to confess that problems with the laptop's batteries, made by Sony, means they are a major 'fire hazard'._

[http://www.nbclosangeles.com/investigations/I-Team- Investiga...](http://www.nbclosangeles.com/investigations/I-Team- Investigation-Battery-Lithium-Ion-Fire-Laptop-Computer-412459303.html)

<comment><USER10> I don't know if it is a sensor or just a timer but my 2012 MBP warns me about my battery nearing the end of my life.

<comment><USER11> I hope your MBP is not warning you about the end of _your_ life ;)

My thinking about what your Mac is doing is in line with rsynnott, it might be based on your battery's current charge capacity vs. its original capacity, I'm more inclined to think the message is triggered by your battery's cycle count. You can find all this information in the System Information application, under Power.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> How much extra space did Apple allow around the battery for swelling? Samsung's problem seems to be that they fit the battery in so tightly that if it ever swells, it's contained by the limited space. Then pressure builds up until it shorts, goes into thermal runaway, and catches fire.[1]

Maybe it's time to require that anything bigger than a phone use lithium-iron- phosphate battery technology, which doesn't have a thermal runaway problem. Most pro power tools already do; it's expected that they will be used hard and abused. So do "Boosted" brand electric skateboards, and many (all?) second generation UL approved "hoverboards". If it's going to be banged around, that seems to be the way to go.

There's a 14% energy density penalty with lithium-iron-phosphate batters vs regular lithium-ion. They're also more expensive. But the "does not blow up or catch fire" feature is worth it. Here's a video of someone driving a 3" nail through a LiFePo battery.[2] Five minutes of heavy white smoke and some runny black stuff, but no flames or explosion. Compare the standard nail test (done by remote control) of a LIon battery.[3]

[1] [https://www.cnet.com/news/why-is-samsung-galaxy- note-7-explo...](https://www.cnet.com/news/why-is-samsung-galaxy- note-7-exploding-overheating/) [2] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMARDvMz62A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMARDvMz62A) [3] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f30fBFitkSM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f30fBFitkSM)

<comment><USER13> That 14% works out to around a billion + per year in the US which is IMO not really worth it for the few actual issues with lithium ion batteries.

<comment><USER14> Can you clarify what you're referring to? A billion what per year? Dollars?

<comment><USER13> Yea, dollars based on approximate US sales. Though I can't find exact figures so that may be low or high.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> The last time I took my 2015 rMBP on a flight with me, TSA saw my laptop on the scanner and the guy at the machine's eyes bugged out while he did a double take. They swabbed the crap out of my laptop, detected nothing and then let me through.

I was confused and didn't understand why, but I wonder if maybe battery swelling is why.

<comment><USER16> Aren't you supposed to put laptops "alone in its own tray"?

<comment><USER17> US: Rule is non-thin laptops go in a separate tray. Tablets and super-thin laptops can stay in the bag. But, this is enforced inconsistently.

Europe (UK, Ireland, Italy, and Iceland): Separate tray every time I've passed through in the last 4 years.

<comment><USER18> I have a backpack where the sleeve for the laptop pulls out completely from the backpack itself but stays attached with "rails" to prevent theft. I've never had an issue with this and never needed to place the laptop in a new tray. I fly once a month round trip in the US.

<comment><USER17> True enough, I forgot about the TSA bags with flip-out sleeves.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Hmm, reading this I think my old Kindle Keyboard has a swollen battery. I googled a bit and found this excellent write-up [0]. It suggests to stop using it immediately. Bummer! I have been using it for 2 years now (I think) in the swollen state...

[0] [https://www.howtogeek.com/244846/what-to-do-when-your- phone-...](https://www.howtogeek.com/244846/what-to-do-when-your-phone-or- laptop-has-a-swollen-battery/)

<comment><USER20> do you prefer the keyboard over the paperwhite or are you just using it because it's good enough?

<comment><USER19> It's still good enough for me :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> I do not know what happened, but given that bed is in the picture, it could happen that the laptop was put on a blanket or a pillow, which closed the air ducts.

Having said that, of course, safety mechanisms should have shut down everything before the temperature goes into the proximity of the danger zone.

<comment><USER22> >>Having said that, of course, safety mechanisms should have shut down everything before the temperature goes into the proximity of the danger zone.

Um, they did. It's literally the very first sentence of the article.

The guy decided to turn it back on, which is when it blew up.

<comment><USER23> I don't know about Macbooks, but my desktop PC will refuse to POST if temps are past the critical threshold.

<comment><USER24> My lenovo laptop sometimes tests if boil-in-bag might be a good idea for laptops _now_ even if it hasn't been anytime before.

I'll notice when I open my bag and find a hot laptop with little battery left.

Oh and burn marks in the screen. Lenovo has already replaced one screen.

<comment><USER25> I have a Dell craptop from the dayjob that sometimes puts itself into hell when going to sleep while unplugged. It gets REALLY hot, probably burning 100% cpu on whatever little nightmare Windows is having, until the battery runs out. If I notice it, pop the lid, and press the power button, it goes right to sleep properly.

To the point of a comment above, this is why the article is noticed when a MacBook is involved, but it wouldn't be if it was, say, a Dell. We just _assume_ that this obviously shoddy piece of generic Windows crap could just catch fire due to design flaws. If my MacBook caught fire, I'd be shocked. If my Samsung Chromebook caught fire, I wouldn't be. If the dayjob Dell caught fire, I'd call it par for the course.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Defective batteries aren't that new to Apple, I remember having to exchange the battery from my white pre-unibody MacBook twice because it was swollen by over a centimeter. There was a recall even IIRC. Of course, back then you could swap it out yourself.

<comment><USER27> _Defective batteries aren 't that new to Apple_

Exactly, happened to me as well like 6 years ago (which in combo with the magnetic power connector made me lose work more than once due to me continueing to use the macbook without bad battery followed by me/cats/wife tripping over the cable). Just searching for e.g. 'macbook swollen battery' gives quite some results.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> There have been a number of stories about laptops and mobile phones exploding due to issues with batteries. Fortunately the author here managed to get the Mac into a reasonably safe place just before it really exploded and he got away with only blistered fingers.

What I'm curious about is, are companies like Tesla able to put some sort of safety precautions into their cars and their PowerWall to prevent this from happening and to alert the user that something in their battery is horribly wrong? An electric car battery is way bigger than a Mac's battery, but at least the car owner has the chance to get out of the car and get away from it. But a Powerwall? If it's going to blow up is it going to burn your house down in the process?

</comment><comment><USER29> If unseen swelling is a problem, couldn't you fix it with a simple sensor, like a fragile paper tape conductor that goes around the battery?

It swells, the circuit goes dead, and that's the signal for the charger to stop charging.

<comment><USER30> Correct me if I'm wrong but these incidents are sometimes triggered by charging, but never escalated by it.

Once the layers of the cell make contact it shorts the entire battery and causes the battery to discharge quickly, releasing the energy in the form of heat.

Just because you've removed the power source from the battery doesn't mean the battery won't stop discharging.

<comment><USER31> Batteries (can, not always) swell quite a while before they "go off", so detecting swelling would be a useful sign that something is wrong and to stop charging to not trigger it.

<comment><USER32> A pressure sensor between battery and its enclosure could be used. Or strain sensors on the pack itself. It should probably just disallow charging completely, as people have a tendency to ignore warnings.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> This really worries me: I own three laptops, use a fourth for work and thus I often have three — and sometimes four — laptops fully-charged at home. What exactly _are_ the parameters under which an unattended laptop may catch fire? Only when the laptop itself is running? Only if running and heat exchange is impeded?

I honestly don't know, and that worries me.

<comment><USER34> I'm thinking maybe purchase a fireproof safe and lock the laptops in there while not in use?

I can't think of much else, really.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> Unsurprisingly even Apple laptops require ventilation; I thought it was common knowledge that you can easily destroy any laptop by running it on a soft, heat multiplying surface like a bedspread....

<comment><USER36> With modern technology, it's completely unacceptable for consumer electronics to _catch fire_ when running it on a bedspread. It should shut itself down when it gets too hot. Worst case, it might break due to being too hot, but it should never catch fire.

<comment><USER37> I don't think anyone disagrees with you on this.

<comment><USER38> Apparently the parent comment does as it appears to be blaming the victim

<comment><USER39> No one knows if this was truly a defective battery before overheating.

The way I read it: CPU gets hot, battery damage from overheating begins, computer shuts off. User turns it on again not knowing the state of the electronics inside. Possibly weakened or damaged electronics cause the battery to blow up.

Bad ventilation weakens electronics and continued use causes catastrophic failure. This is not new.

<comment><USER40> It is highly unlikely that thermal runaway was caused by the computer overheating.

It's far more likely that a defect in the battery caused this. Perhaps the laptop tried to draw too much power from the battery, and it failed.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> Didn't Samsung already patent this feature?

<comment><USER42> They copied it from apple ;) [http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/more- exploding-iphones/](http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/more-exploding- iphones/)

<comment><USER43> Actually the NeXT cube pioneered the prior art of computer hardware exploding into a inextinguishable conflagration of flames. Apple just refined and popularized the technology by making it much easier to ignite, without requiring additional peripherals like a MAP gas torch.

[https://simson.net/hacks/cubefire.html](https://simson.net/hacks/cubefire.html)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> Had a portable bluetooth speaker do the same to me while I was in the same room with it, it was simply charging, wasn't even being used. Also very fortunate to be able to extinguish it right on the spot before it set the apartment and consequently the building on fire. I've grown pretty skeptical of that sort of batteries after the fact, but there's not much you can do about it at this point since there's one in almost every device you can think of. It's like sitting on an explosive device that can go off anytime without any notice.

<comment><USER45> Having higher power density is very convenient, but _not exploding_ is a great characteristic of NiMH batteries. Charging mishaps can happen with those as well, but I've never heard of a cascade failure overtaking NiMH while just sitting there.

I've had young programmers sneer at me about my continued use of NiMH AA and AAA batteries, but there are some advantages.

<comment><USER40> I wouldn't give Lithium Ion-based stuff to kids to play with unsupervised. NiMH for the win.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> Is there some way to tell if a battery is swelling using CoconutBattery? Like some sudden dropoff in capacity?

<comment><USER47> Not sure if there is, but if you click the _Battery Info..._ button, it shows a popup with a field called _Battery failure_ in addition to the normal _OSX battery status_.

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> > There was a bang as I backed away causing the back to pop and smoke kept > pouring out. It kept sizzling for a few minutes and then finally it stopped.

> The house had filled up with smoke everywhere, the acidic stench of melted > plastic made my eyes water.

> After I had opened up all the windows in the house and cleared out the > smoke, ...

Wrong answer. The correct answer was "leave the building and call the fire department". You _really_ _really_ do not want to breathe the smoke from a battery fire.

</comment><comment><USER34> Well, one more thing to worry about. Should I leave my MacBooks in the bathroom sink when going out?

<comment><USER49> If you're going to be worried about everything that has a small chance of failing and injuring you, I'm sorry to say you're currently living in a minefield. But statistically you'd be more likely to break your toe on the coffee table than your laptop exploding and burning down your house.

<comment><USER34> My toe will heal, the stakes are low. My house burning down on the other hand can have fatal consequences for my cat if I'm not at home.

<comment><USER49> Depending on where you live, house destroying disasters like earthquakes, floods, and storms have similarly fatal consequences but are statistically more likely to occur. My point is make reasonable preparations and insure any valuable belongings, but thinking about it too much doesn't make it any less likely its going to happen to you.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> One thing I'm curious about is if the author noticed a budge before the laptop exploded and brought it to the Apple store. I had a similar problem as I noticed the laptop was uneven as I was typing. Noticed there was a bump on the bottom and brought it to the store to have it repaired. Not saying it's ideal, but there might have been a chance it could have been prevented before it got too far out of hand.

</comment><comment><USER51> Just curious if there is a manufacturer+model and/or lot number that is still legible on the battery or an old system report output? Have been having some weird overheating and "hard off" power-issues with my 2015 MBP --- and now am pretty concerned about this.

It is a remanufactured from Apple though. So I know the battery was replaced. But still...

</comment><comment><USER52> This has been a problem since forever. I had one of the first Intel Macbooks and the damned thing blew up 2 batteries. They swelled up to about 4 times their original thickness overnight. Luckily, they didn't explode but after the second incident the Macbook got recycled with extreme prejudice.

</comment><comment><USER53> Similar thing happened to my retina external display the other week and I had to unplug my monitor and run it out to my balcony while I could see flames in the display (though I assume the root of the problem was different as there is no battery). Luckily it suffocated itself pretty quickly.

</comment><comment><USER54> One does not a trend make.

How many were manufactured? How many failed in this way? Is it reasonable to expect perfection? (Hint: Oh hell no.)

p.s. I'm not saying it's right. Simply pointing out that "life happens" and random events are in fact woven into the fabric of the universe.

</comment><comment><USER55> Apple has a page dedicated to batteries

[https://www.apple.com/batteries/maximizing- performance/](https://www.apple.com/batteries/maximizing-performance/)

</comment><comment><USER56> yikes. I have two very swollen lithium batteries in my shed from two old mbps I've been meaning to ditch. I had no idea they could spontaneously combust. I'll be getting rid of them tomorrow!

<comment><USER57> If they been there for a while then they are discharged and there is nothing to worry about.

</comment></comment><comment><USER58> I'd be interested to know how the bathroom tiles look and whether people recommend to do the same in a similar situation.

</comment><comment><USER59> As a shareholder, curious what Apple said and did as a response. Did they offer a brand new MacBook free of charge?

</comment><comment><USER60> If you sit a MBP on a pillow, the fan circulation is significantly reduced, causing overheating. It also depends on your CPU usage...running with a few dozen tabs open while editing videos? Yikes, hot.

One other thing: if you smoke, residue can also reduce the effectiveness of cooling systems and affect system performance.

EDIT: Not suggesting this was the OP's fault, just suggesting there are logical ways to reduce this risk.

<comment><USER61> I'm confused. What does this have to do with the apparent battery failure that OP experienced?

<comment><USER39> Why are you assuming the battery is the source, not the result, of a failure elsewhere in the system?

No one has done a real root cause analysis and research shows humans are really bad at it when relying on intuition alone.

Cascading failure here is possible. I've never seen one actually light a battery on fire. The last encounter was a gaming level video card plowing a capacitor, starting a fire within the entire desktop.

From the article:

> If you have a MacBook be careful leaving it unattended on the bed, battery > fires burn hot and fast with little time to react.

If this person was in a habit of leaving it in a poorly ventilated place, like their squishy bed, the electronics could have become compromised over time.

Also from the article:

> however with the newer unibody laptops there is no way you can see this > swelling happening.

This is not true. Users have reported that prior to discovering battery swelling, their trackpad quit working and in some cases began separating from the top chassis.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER62> Pretty lucky he dealt with it so quickly. A mattress fire is not a trivial thing to deal with!

</comment><comment><USER63> > After reading up on the matter it seems that lithium batteries can swell...

People really need to be educated on battery chemistry when they buy battery operated products. Here's a programmer, so I assume he has some technical abilities/interests, and yet even he doesn't seem to know that some batteries can do this.

<comment> k-mcgrady >> People really need to be educated on battery chemistry when they buy battery operated products.

Or it should be illegal to sell products that can catch fire/explode. I admit to knowing nothing about battery tech but if there were suddenly massive penalties for exploding batteries I don't think it would be long until we had a workable solution. It should not be up to a consumer buying a phone/laptop to learn about how their battery works and how to identify a potentially dangerous situation.

<comment><USER63> > Or it should be illegal to sell products that can catch fire/explode.

You own a vehicle?

<comment><USER64> "during normal use"...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER65> Similar thing happened with my IMac. Heard the hissing noise and smoke started rising up from behind the screen. Quickly switched off the power supply, thankfully it didn't explode but couldn't get it fixed after that. They claimed that they weren't supporting that model anymore.

<comment><USER66> iMacs don't have batteries, right...?

<comment><USER67> Could be from a capacitor?

<comment><USER31> hissing noise and smoke sounds like an electrolytic capacitor, yes.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER68> This is definitely frightening but "exploded" sounds a bit hyperbolic to me. Every time I've read about an "exploding" phone or other device it seems like "caught on fire" would be a more accurate description.

<comment><USER69> " _There was a bang as I backed away causing the back to pop_ "

</comment></comment><comment><USER70> Given the debacle that was the Note 7 (which came from Samsung's obsession with thinness), I'm surprised we don't see more of these super thin devices catching fire. Luckily nobody was seriously hurt.

Next-gen's MPB will be .5 inches slimmer.

<comment><USER71> It came from defective batteries not thinness.

<comment><USER70> The batteries expanded upon use, and due to the slimness of the phone, they had no room. This caused the conductive chemical layers within the batteries to leak through the porous separating layers, and the resulting reaction caused fires.

To me, that has to do with slimness.

<comment><USER72> I don't believe you are correct. No device manufacturer has room available when it comes to internals. They don't leave gaps that aren't physically required for operation. This isn't like an air-cooled desktop PC, it's a device that has no affordances for excess space.

The big problem with the Note 7 was the battery design and manufacture. Nothing within the device itself was the problem. These batteries would have exploded in any device they were placed in (though they were built specifically for the Note 7, like any phone battery nowadays): [https://news.samsung.com/global/infographic-galaxy- note7-wha...](https://news.samsung.com/global/infographic-galaxy-note7-what- we-discovered)

<comment><USER70> > (though they were built specifically for the Note 7, like any phone battery > nowadays)

Samsung requested a battery with the design of the phone in mind. That design was faulty. Under normal operation the electrodes would expand and due to the design of the electrodes and the faulty separators, there was a fire.

The slimness/design of the phone necessitated a battery design which was faulty. I'm not saying that the battery literally had no extra room. There was no extra room without causing a short circuit and fire.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER73> Perhaps Apple can attach a capacitor sufficient to drive the new touch bar, or make the touch bar e-ink, then display an overheat warning and prevent the power button from operating?

<comment><USER74> A capacitor of sufficient size to drive the touch bar (even just a few milliwatts for a minute) would be very large. The application requires a backup chemical battery (which is already something present on the motherboard) not a capacitor.

</comment></comment><comment><USER75> _I removed the back plate to observe the damage and hopefully see if the hard disk had survived._

Apple has solved this problem in the current models. There's no longer any way for the hard disk to leave you in doubt. It's now fused to the motherboard permanently so that it cannot be recovered even if it does survive some kind of trouble.

Keep your backups up to date.

<comment><USER76> I think they have added a port to the mainboard which can be used to try and salvage data if the mainboard is fried.

But it's still unbelievable that they soldered the SSD to the mainboard.

<comment><USER77> You would call it unbelievable if Apple made it tiny bit heavier or thicker by keeping parts more independent but still call it unbelievable trying to keep a minimal structure.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER78> heat/ventilation cause it? Using notebook not on a flat surface is the cause of heated unit

</comment><comment><USER79> > After I had opened up all the windows in the house and cleared out the > smoke, I removed the back plate to observe the damage and hopefully see if > the hard disk had survived.

> Didn't look like it:

I agree. This is the first time I've seen a hard drive transform into (what looks like) an SSD under any condition.</comment>


Found hidden safe, should we crack? - <AUTHOR> https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=295877 <comment><USER2> A lot of people suggesting just to forget about it. Jeez, I couldn't sleep properly until I found out what's inside. I would personally be more disappointed in myself for ignoring it than opening it and finding nothing. At least I would have a safe.

On the other hand, I would try cracking it myself, for fun. If not, call someone.

<comment><USER3> at this point I am so invested in it that I can already not sleepy over it!

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Haha, recently bought a new home which also had a safe embedded in the concrete under the flooring.Place was apparently owned by a dude who had been in jail, a few owners back, to add to the 'story'. Key was present but not the code, which would be useless as the know was rusted in place and wouldn't move.

In the end we drilled a hole through the top plate (did not take very long but made a lot of noise) and stuck a little camera through to find it was empty (as far as we could see).

Cemented over it, new floor over that, left as a surprise to future owners.

<comment><USER5> It would've been fun to put some piece of treasure for the next adventurer. Maybe a time capsule or even a single silver coin (only about $20) would really delight someone. This has me thinking I should do something like this in my house.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I don't know if the mechanism is loose enough to accept multiple combinations as valid inputs but it can drastically reduce the search space. For instance, if the safe also accepts the numbers before and after the correct one the search space is divided by 3^[number of 'digits'].

Feynman was famous for "cracking" safes in his time (more like cleverly trying all possibilities): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Waw11zhaKSk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Waw11zhaKSk)

<comment><USER7> I think you mean de Bruijn sequence [0], can be hard to reach via search if you don't know the name.

> a de Bruijn sequence of order n on a size-k alphabet A is a cyclic sequence > in which every possible length-n string on A occurs exactly once as a > substring (i.e., as a contiguous subsequence). Such a sequence is denoted by > B(k, n) and has length k^n, which is also the number of distinct substrings > of length n on A; _de Bruijn sequences are therefore optimally short_.

That is, it reduces the total number of input symbols required to traverse all permutations from (k^n)*n to (k^n)+n-1. i.e each sequence attempt takes only one extra input symbol regardless of the code length (n) or alphabet (k).

Once I learned this (actually originally ended up figuring out for k=2 since google failed to reveal this page), I started to notice the critical difference between short 4 digit permutation keypads on doors: those that accept a continuous stream of input characters without a reset are vulnerable to this shortened brute force sequence; whereas those that require you delimit sequences with a separate key are not.

Specifically: a non-delimited 4 digit decimal keypad takes at most 10003 input chars to crack, whereas a delimited one with a reset button takes 50000 (~5 times more, n+1 for the reset button). I'm not sure if continuous form are merely cheaper or the delimited form are simply newer and lock makers a little wiser?

[edit]

I suppose in the worst case for the non-delimited 4 digit keypads, if you also figure out the subset of alphabet used (i.e UV light button trick), then it reduces to (n^n)+n-1 = 259 input symbols !! except it adds the requirement of generating the sequence dynamically... but that's hardly difficult for n=k=4... and if any buttons are used more than once it reduces k further! e.g if a button is used twice then (4^3)+4-1 = 67!

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Bruijn_sequence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Bruijn_sequence)

<comment><USER7> Yes i'm replying to myself.

> I'm not sure if continuous form are merely cheaper or the delimited form are > simply newer and lock makers a little wiser?

Found this article [0] on exactly the same thing. Except he goes further to ask the difficulty added by simply increasing the alphabet by one (without adding delimiter key, and remaining vulnerable to de brujin sequences) vs adding a delimiter key. Answer: It depends on whether n > k.

The reduced alphabet attack works equally on both forms as far as I can see.

[0] [https://www.johndcook.com/blog/2019/10/22/hacking-with-de- br...](https://www.johndcook.com/blog/2019/10/22/hacking-with-de-bruijn/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Oh god, it's the Reddit safe drama all over again. I'm not falling for it this time.

<comment><USER9> The Reddit safe drama was predated by Geraldo Rivera's attempt to find treasure in Al Capone's vault.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Once I lived in an apartment with a safe that had been locked open. It was a giant, heavy thing too large to move. The owners simply renovated the apartment around it.

Eventually I got bored and started playing with it. Since it was locked open, it was possible to start taking apart the door from the inside. Once the tumblers were exposed, I figured out the combination.

It was tremendous fun!

If anyone here is in a similar situation, I recommend cracking the safe. Building the robot seems like a nice bit of mechanical engineering:

[https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/building-a-safe- crackin...](https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/building-a-safe-cracking- robot/all)

</comment><comment><USER11> Tangentially related, this was a good article in the Atlantic about a guy who makes his living opening safes:

[https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/12/profe...](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/12/professional- safecracker-reveals-his-craft/577897/)

He's got a good instagram page as well: [https://www.instagram.com/santore_safecracker/](https://www.instagram.com/santore_safecracker/)

<comment><USER12> More than tangential! For those on the fence, the article is fun. It has some technical details about the actual mechanics of getting inside safes but gets a little into the psychology of it as well. For example, families cracking the safe of a deceased loved one may be both excited, sad, and afraid of what they'll find (secrets are like that).

</comment></comment><comment> d--b I bought an apartment and even though there was no safe, I was tempted to remove the flooring everywhere just to see what was beneath it... I wouldn't last a second without opening that safe. I'd probably try and make the robot myself though :-)

<comment><USER13> Same. I own a 100+ year old home, and I often think "what if some rich eccentric stashed gold in the walls?!"

I'd go the brute force method, personally. That safe would get opened . . .

<comment><USER14> We own a 100 year old place that we've been renovating for the last 2 months (when we took ownership). I found a (small) stash of money under the carpet (about £200 in pristine 1990s notes).

That's probably the best thing I found. Less savoury was the discovery that the house was, in fact, owned by rats. They were everywhere. There was a lovely little nest made from a bag of straw and lined with a newspaper from 1938. They'd eaten into the expansion tanks in the loft so they had a fresh supply of water.

<comment><USER15> Based on the couple of houses I have purchased in my life, rodents own a lot of things. Until you bring the cats into your life. Then the rodents don't own as much. You still don't own anything either, because the cats become the new owners, but they are at least preferable to the rodents. ;)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> 90% chance it's empty. Only way it's possibly not empty is if previous owner died.

<comment><USER17> Can't that be tested by banging on the safe to try to set something in motion?

<comment><USER18> It's set into the ground and surrounded by concrete poured around it. Seems like that might not do so good. If I wanted to cheaply find out what was in it I would drill a small hole and use a $20 endoscope. With a Home Depot drill rental you could be out $50 max vs 600-1000 for a locksmith.

<comment><USER19> A Home Depot drill is not going through the walls of any good safe.

Not to mention, just randomly drilling holes in a safe is a pretty bad idea, as it might contain a glass relocker, or any other relocker you might accidentally trigger.

<comment><USER20> Angle grinder and a shit load of disks will usually be sufficient. Takes a while, but unless they have James Bond style poison gas / acid / explosives etc embedded in the safe enclosure you will eventually make it through.

<comment><USER21> Safety tip: wear safety glasses _and_ a face shield. If the disk breaks off, it can get nasty.

Examples:

Sewn up - [https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3319119/man-carves-open- throat...](https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3319119/man-carves-open-throat-with- angle-grinder-diy-accident/)

Grinding wheel still in the face - [https://www.reddit.com/r/Welding/comments/1sq6v7/wear_your_f...](https://www.reddit.com/r/Welding/comments/1sq6v7/wear_your_faceshields_folks_theres_no_reason_that/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> I looked into safe cracking a while back and it seems most of them are sustainable to various attacks. Instead of spending a dime on what's most likely empty safe i would make it a funny family hobby to try to break it. If they have no use of the safe afterwards i would apply more brute force, seeing they are not limited by time. Drilling a hole and inserting an endoscope would be a fast solution, but would ruin the challenge of breaking it :)

</comment><comment><USER23> So now you have something to play with every night before going to sleep :D Just try some combinations for 15 mins per day :)

<comment><USER24> OR make a jig to try combinations, leave it running for the next two years until it opens? Imagine the fun, solenoids and stepper motors and embedded firmware and interface apps!

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> When you place something in a safe it's usually important, so there is no chance you would leave it behind when you move out. Should not take too long to try all the combinations though.

<comment><USER26> From the thread: 90 ^ 5 combinations, that would take quite a bit of time doing it manually ;-)

<comment><USER27> That number of combinations is not consistent with the $300 offer from the locksmith company to have a robot try them all in "up to 3 days".

90^5 / 3 / 24 / 3600 = approx. 23000 combinations/s

That rate seems much too high, for either a mechanical lock mechanism or an electronic keypad (which I guess would have some kind of lockout for brute forcing anyway).

<comment><USER28> If the robot was able to try every possible combination, why would there not be a 100% chance of success?

<comment><USER29> The lock might be broken? Gummed up lubricants come to mind.

No idea if that's a common problem with safes, but it's pretty clear that a safe would not have any outside maintenance access to fix a problem like that (other than drilling it open, which seems to be routine enough given the "yeah, we can make it usable again" offer)

<comment><USER9> The dial spins but the locking mechanism is rusted so you can't tell when you've hit the correct combo.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> they were a few of those on reddit at one time, always ended in disappointment

<comment><USER31> That's what I would do when leaving behind a safe in a house: lock it with a note inside with the combination on it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> If it's just about having a usable safe, it's an easy decision. They just need to decide whether the cost for the locksmith is worth it for them to have a usable safe...

If it's about what might be in there... shouldn't it be fairly easy to drill a small hole (given the right type of drill) and use a miniature/endoscopic camera to take a look?

<comment><USER33> High quality safes have glass drill plates that break when drilled and clamp the mechanism shut.

<comment><USER34> So? You still have the hole and can peek inside to see if is empty or not. And if it's not then get it out and sledgehammer it in your garden, just for fun, then sell it to your local junk yard.

On the other hand, that you want to use it, then design your own robot and try all combinations. There is no time constraint since you're the owner, no need to "finish in 3 days"

</comment></comment></comment><comment> why-oh-why For $900 can't they just buy the required tool to open/break it? Sounds like a waste of money otherwise.

<comment><USER35> For $900 they can have it opened without fully destroying it.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Link to photo of safe on page 2 of thread:

[https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=295877&star...](https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=295877&start=50#p4856165)

<comment><USER36> Direct link:

[https://postimg.cc/QK81zbKC](https://postimg.cc/QK81zbKC)

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> Unknown safes are like unboxing videos for adults.

I'm surprised there's not a TV show yet.

A couple have been faked for karma but since no one has figured a way to make money yet most seem real.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/WhatsInThisThing/](https://www.reddit.com/r/WhatsInThisThing/)

The catch is, if it has anything the person will not follow up, else someone might claim it or the police might take away their new drug stash and weapons.

</comment><comment><USER38> Is the cover plate concealing a backup key lock? Call in the lock picking lawyer. Seems like many safes/locks don't stand up much to experienced attacks.

<comment><USER39> I am glad I wasn't the only person thinking about LPL for this. I wonder how much he would charge for a internet consult and recommendations on tools. Might end up being way less than the try-every-combination-or-we-drill-it locksmiths that are an hour awway

<comment><USER5> Since this is now somewhat famous, LPL will get a lot of views for opening this. As long as he can make a video about it, he should be able to do it free and turn a tidy profit.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> How is the min $600 and the max $1,050?

By my tally, the min is $150 for one days rt travel (assuming rt = back and forth) \+ $300 for combo machine = $450

And max would be $150/day * 4 (3 days combo machine + 1 day drilling) \+ $300 combo machine \+ $600 drilling \- $300 credited from combo machine = $1,200

Not that this is important to the story, but it bugs me when I'm clearly missing something.

<comment><USER41> I think the expectation is that the locksmith would have to travel twice, once to setup the safe cracker, and once to pick it up. ( $150 x 2 ) + $300 = $600

That said: If the safe is old and the locksmith is pretty good, there's a legit possibility that the locksmith could just crack the safe. I had an old safe worked on and the locksmith told me he could open it without the combo just from the feel of the tumblers.

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> I'm wondering if there's any statistical analysis of the value of the items inside any given safe? It would seem as this phenomena happens more and more it would be valuable to have an aggregated list of the number of safes we've tried to open and the eventual value of the contents so we can better asses how much work to put into opening this new one.

</comment><comment><USER43> i've played enough RPGs to know you should be careful in case it's boobytrapped be sure to raise your perception

</comment><comment><USER33> If the safe is high quality, that is a bargain. I was quoted 5x that for a quality tool-resistant safe.

Having a safe in one's home is a useful thing indeed.

[https://sneak.berlin/20191119/your-money-isnt- yours/](https://sneak.berlin/20191119/your-money-isnt-yours/)

<comment><USER44> There's a photo of the safe at [1] revealing it's a Hayman-branded dial floor safe, and the price of a new Hayman dial floor safe is ~$700 [2]

Getting a ~$700 safe for $600 with free installation might be a good deal - but only if you were in the market for a $700 safe to begin with :)

[1] [https://postimg.cc/QK81zbKC](https://postimg.cc/QK81zbKC) [2] [https://www.safesetc.com/brands-hayman-safes-hayman-floor- sa...](https://www.safesetc.com/brands-hayman-safes-hayman-floor-safes.html)

<comment><USER45> Nice find.

It doesn't seem in any way a "safe" safe, it is just a very ordinary low-cost "home" safe, it shouldn't be that dificult to open it, it looks similar to the one that Sparkfun's Nathan Seidle founder opened up with an (el-cheapo, around 200 US$ in parts) self- made robot:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fTz2D6x20U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fTz2D6x20U)

This article details how the actual possible combinations are much less than the theorical ones on these "home" safes:

[https://www.tomsguide.com/us/safecrack-robot- defcon25,news-2...](https://www.tomsguide.com/us/safecrack-robot- defcon25,news-25557.html)

And here is the full tutorial/howto:

[https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/building-a-safe- crackin...](https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/building-a-safe-cracking- robot/all)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> BTW, this site (Bogleheads.org) is an _awesome_ financial advice site.

Lots of smart people, willing to share with you ways to live below your means and invest the difference. Great place.

</comment><comment><USER47> Here's a way to decode it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_lkYQ88kv0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_lkYQ88kv0)

Looks kind of fun.

</comment><comment><USER48> Favouriting this - as the forum thread doesn't have a conclusion just yet...

</comment><comment><USER49> Just do an x-ray to find out what is inside.

<comment><USER50> Ignoring the fact that a transmissive X-ray image requires something to be on the other side of the object to catch the rays that pass through, have you ever tried passing X-rays through metal?

</comment></comment><comment><USER51> Probably just a jewelry box and some old letters.

<comment><USER51> Probably just a jewelry box and some old letters.

<comment><USER51> Probably just a jewelry box and some old letters.</comment></comment></comment>


Inventors and the invention: The Rolling Fluid Turbine - <AUTHOR> https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/inventors-and-the-invention-the-rolling-fluid-turbine <comment><USER2> I think the disruptive aspect is not the efficiency but in how cheap it is (or could be - I'm assuming it will be). It looks like something I could fabricate in my workshop.

The ability to work with low head and with dirty water means installation and maintenance would be way cheaper as well. People who DIY hyrdo power often complain about the constant cleaning and maintenance required. This thing looks like it could easily swallow small sticks and rocks with little to no damage The plug thingy looks like it would be cheap to replace if it was ever damaged. There are no blades to break or nozzle to clog.

The rotation appears pretty slow which I presume would lower the gear reduction needed and make that aspect cheaper as well.

It sounded pretty quiet as well so you could build it closer to your house. DIY hyrdo is often really noisy.

There is a crazy amount of hydro potential near where I live but they have banned dams. Corrupt construction companies were trying to extract money out of the area without giving any of it to the locals so the locals banned them for 'ecology' reasons. Something like this would enable locals to install their own hyrdo generators on the year round streams that run through their properties.

</comment><comment> semi-extrinsic From TFA:

> Typically hydroelectric power requires a huge head of water to function, > relying on blades submerged in high-velocity water streams.

From Wikipedia's page on "Water turbines":

> Turbine selection is based on the available water head (...). Kaplan > turbines with adjustable blade pitch are well-adapted to wide ranges of head > conditions (...), since their peak efficiency can be achieved over a wide > range of flow conditions.

They even provide this handy chart for turbine selection:

[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/Water_Tu...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/Water_Turbine_Chart.png)

illustrating that Kaplan turbines work well down to 1 m head.

This turbine is an interesting concept for illustrating fluid mechanics, but I think trying to spin it as a good alternative for a new hydroelectric turbine type is ultimately misleading. Just from the basic function of the turbine I sincerely doubt it can compete with a more classic type like a Kaplan or cross-flow turbine (e.g. the viscous losses and the un-utilised pressure in the outflow both look high).

<comment><USER3> Disclaimer: I am the inventor's son.

Sure, Kaplan turbine is way more efficient but it is difficult and expensive to use it on such low water head. This bladeless ball is so dumb it can be manufactured in sweatshops and run in dirty irrigation canals from 30cm water head. The potential is huge exactly because we can not build huge river dams any mor. This turbine could utilize micro flows, tidal energy even waste water. By the way it is very efficient as a garden or kitchen cleaning tool on the standard water main.

<comment> semi-extrinsic This is an important aspect, for sure. A similar concept in spirit that a colleague has worked on is the cross-flow turbine. It can be made easily and cheaply by cutting up pieces of steel pipe and welding them back together. There is an organization called Remote Hydrolight that supports the building and maintenance of these for power across rural Afghanistan:

[http://www.remotehydrolight.com](http://www.remotehydrolight.com)

For micro-hydropower in Europe or the US, I believe we are still running into the environmental issue. I understand in most countries, it is illegal to build hydropower even in small streams, and even if you own the land, without a lot of red tape and approval from environmental authorities.

But I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong! I hope your father succeeds in this!

<comment><USER4> When I was staying at a mountain motel in the middle of Sichuan, the power went out. Turns out, they only had power from a stream of water, and the pipe feeding the turbine was blocked. It was all very haphazard, but it worked!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> This effect is well known to old school instrument fitters.. hense the Variable Area Flow Meters are more.commonly known as rotameters , the maths however is buried deep in such devices such as Coriolis Mass Flow Meters and also has much to do with the friction at the counter rotating boundry layers of the fluid between where the fluid is trying to stay laminer at both the vessel wall and the rotating item [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_flow_meter](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_flow_meter)

<comment><USER6> Many effects are already known to different people, but no one thought to use them for some novel application.

<comment><USER5> "Vortex shedding may also occur as a more stable single vortex spiral that has a rotation direction that can be harnessed by a specially designed micro wind turbine energy harvester"

[https://emps.exeter.ac.uk/engineering/research/structures- dy...](https://emps.exeter.ac.uk/engineering/research/structures- dynamics/energyharvesting/research/wearable/vortexsheddingenergyharvesting/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Talk about burying the lede.

No good pictures of the invention, it's only shown around 6 minutes in to the 8 minute video.

<comment><USER8> Visit the website embedded in the article...

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Here's another different take on small-scale hydrokinetic power generation that I found interesting:

[http://leadingedge.engin.brown.edu/wordpress/](http://leadingedge.engin.brown.edu/wordpress/)

...no turbines to get clogged/wrapped with debris, and potentially better for aquatic life. If nothing else, it looks pretty cool in action.

</comment><comment><USER10> If you ever get the chance to visit Prague, don't mess the National Technical Museum.

[http://www.ntm.cz/en](http://www.ntm.cz/en)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Technical_Museum_(Pra...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Technical_Museum_\(Prague\))

</comment><comment><USER11> I've consulted for a prominent SV VC looking at small scale hydro-kinetic energy before.

Two major hurdles:

1\. Section 404 of the EPA's Clean Water Act (aimed at normal dams and protecting fisheries) still applies to smaller scale hydro-kinetic turbines.

2\. We determined the potential market wasn't sufficient after looking at detailed satellite imagery of the US and Canada river networks. It was surprisingly small compared to the potential of solar and wind.

To really solve our energy problem we need to start getting serious about nuclear funding. Including scholarships for master's and PhDs.

It is a great solution if you need off-grid power though.

</comment><comment><USER12> Seems like a cool invention, but unfortunately the writing or editing has been done by someone with no technical knowledge.

> a unique hydrodynamic principle, the rolling fluid principle vortex dynamic

what?

> which can create a large amount of energy

The first law of thermodynamics may want to hear about that.

> an output of up to 10 kWh per day

so ... 417W.

> This is enough power to meet the requirements of 5 European families

[1] gives German usage for one household per day as 9.6kWh

[1] [http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/average-household- electricity...](http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/average-household-electricity- consumption)

<comment><USER13> Fortunately the laws of Thermodynamics are safe, it it converting kinetic energy into electricity. It doesn't appear to be more efficient that existing hydropower solutions but it does seem to be applicable to a wider set of flowing water conditions (which is why, I'm sure, they keep talking about single family homes).

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> What's the torque exerted on the rotor and does it scale and what head of water does it take to produce a useful amount of power?</comment>


Ask HN: Anyone using alternative Android launchers? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> I started using ADW since it first came out on a SLOW Android 2.2 device and still use ADW today.

Originally I was looking for a lightweight home screen replacement but I find it more usable than the default Android launcher. It's one of the first apps I install on a new device.

</comment><comment><USER3> yes, Nova Launcher since 6 years and counting. Everytime I change phone maker, I keep installing it</comment>


In Ukraine, a Malware Expert Who Could Blow the Whistle on Russian Hacking - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/16/world/europe/russia-ukraine-malware-hacking-witness.html <comment><USER2> This is about profexer.</comment>


Is your product solving or seeking a problem? - <AUTHOR> http://alexblom.com/blog/2010/05/is-your-product-solving-or-seeking-a-problem/

<comment><USER2> A very simple tip but one I think lots of people forget!! Thanks.</comment>


In Cloud Software Wars, Mesosphere Bows to Kubernetes – The Information - <AUTHOR> https://www.theinformation.com/in-cloud-software-wars-mesosphere-bows-to-kubernetes?shared=b05a3c <comment><USER2> "Bows" is not the right claim. Read [https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/06/mesosphere-says-its-not- bo...](https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/06/mesosphere-says-its-not-bowing-to- kubernetes/)

> The Information, which broke this story earlier this morning, argues that > this means that Mesosphere is "bowing" to Kubernetes. That's something > Mesosphere co-founder and CEO Florian Leibert and Mesosphere CMO Peter > Guagenti strongly denied when I talked to them earlier today. They both > stressed that the idea here is to give Mesosphere's users — which tend to be > large enterprises — more choice. "Our customers tend to be infrastructure > and operations professionals at large companies who are serving hundreds or > thousands of developers in an organization," Guagenti said. "For them, the > most important thing they provide is freedom of choice."

Also you posted the same thing yesterday. [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15207994](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15207994) I'm not sure why you're very eager to share this somewhat-old-now story.</comment>


Is it wrong not to interview all very qualified candidates? - <AUTHOR>

My department is expanding so I'm hiring another entry-level position -- one that I've hired successfully for several times before. Normally, I struggle for candidates, but this time, I've got an abundance -- including someone who I consider an A+ candidate: Resume and samples are exactly what I've always looked for (never happened before), and a quick phone interview with this person went great.
So I've scheduled this person for an interview early next week, and my instinct is if the interview goes well/candidate passes our in-house tests/references check out, to offer the person the job and move on. But I'm wondering -- what about the 10 or so A-/B+ resumes I've gotten? Normally, I'd be thrilled to have a shot at these candidates. Do I have an obligation to my company/my team to talk to every one of them just in case one of them pans out better? I really don't want to waste anyone's time/get anyone's hopes up if it's a small chance. Also, if this A+ person truly is the right fit, I don't want them to get away.
So I'm wondering, if you were one of the A-/B+  candidates, would you want me to bring you in for an interview on the small chance you might show the other candidate up? And managers, when do you make the cut-off decision when you're hiring? (BTW: This is only my first week of resumes for this position -- normally it would take a month or more to get half as many qualified candidates -- really is bad out there.)
Any/all feedback appreciated. Thanks! <comment><USER2> If you are really sure what you are looking for (which in this case looks like you are) I do not see much value in interviewing others.

On the other hand if someone were not that sure about what exact qualities one is looking for then it would make sense to interview a wide set of candidates.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the feedback -- appreciate it!

<comment><USER3> I'd schedule 2-3 of the others just in case your all-star doesn't pan out. Or these candidates could confirm that they are an all-star.</comment></comment></comment>