Lifehack: Cleaning the house more efficient - <AUTHOR>

Get a huge bag. Go one room at a time.
1) Put every loose item in the bag, even garbage, everything goes into the bag.
2) Vacum, wipe dust, and swab.
3) Take the bag outside the room. Sort the items in the bag and put them where they belong.
I tried this today and have never been so efficient.
Before I used to: "a pen - belongs in the office, a clip, also to the office, a screwdriver - to the garage, a hairbrush - to the toilet. And just lifted up items to wipe under them.
By taking the bag out of the room, I only move back the items that needs to be in that room. This new cleaning method is like refactoring code, but as easy as copy/pasting.
By putting Everything in the bag I do not have to waste time or mental cycles thinking about where it belongs and transporting it there. And it frees up surfaces for easy wiping!
Feel free to share Your cleaning hacks! =) <comment><USER2> I have small hack for cleaning/sorting cloths in closet:

1) Put everything on the ground (pile #0).

2) Start sorting pile #0 by 2-3 piles at once. Like pants pile #1, shirts pile #2.

3) Then repeat step 2 as long as it makes sense for each pile.

It is fast and not boring to do.

<comment><USER3> So what you're saying is you quicksort your clothes.

<comment><USER2> Exactly!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I really like this idea. I'm relocating long term to a new country in 4 weeks and I need to downsize my collection of things. Thankfully i'm only looking at a one bedroom apartment but it still seems like a daunting task.

The biggest non-starter has been my wardrobe, taking on that challenge inside the bedroom isn't getting anywhere. I think i'm going to move everything out into the larger living room and hash it out there.

Then i'll have a clean an organized bedroom I can use to leverage cleaning other parts!.

</comment><comment><USER5> _1) Put every loose item in the bag, even garbage, everything goes into the bag._

I would never, ever, ever do this. Things I want to keep do not belong in a bag with _garbage._ I value my health. If things go in a bag with _garbage_ , they become garbage and all those items would promptly be taken out to the trash and thrown out.

But then I am big on "When in doubt, throw it out" anyway. Most Americans simply own too much crap.

<comment><USER6> Just grab two bags. One for items and one for garbage.

<comment><AUTHOR> I tried that, but having just one bag was much faster. And saved me the mental processing of what goes into what bag.</comment></comment></comment>


Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Requests Pardon - <AUTHOR> http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-founder-peter-sunde-requests-pardon-120511/ <comment><USER2> I don't understand. Its only 8 months. While i don't agree with the verdict, his peers found him guilty.

"I can't go to prison because my new company needs me." is surely not a reason to avoid prison. I am sure the prison has doctors and can treat the majority of ailments and illnesses.

<comment><USER3> I find locking people away from their life for more than a day or two absolutely barbaric. I'm surprised a country often rated most democratic in the world locks people away for non-violent offenses.

<comment><USER4> So what should the punishment be for non-violent offenses?

<comment><USER3> There are many options. Charge them money (and ensure you can force them to pay it back, e.g. wage garnishing), public service was suggested, etc. Looking them away from their life seems incredibly excessive.

<comment><USER5> I'm totally in favor of mild punishments and I do think that imprisonment is barbaric and should be avoided if at all possible, but money as a punishment, for example, is not without problems.

It basically gets rich people of the hook. If there is a flat rate to pay, that's the case anyway, but even if the punishment is a percentage of someone's income, this disproportionally hits poor people. Poor people need all their money to survive – pay rent, pay heating, pay food – there is nothing extra, no money to save. Once you are making several dozen times that money, a monetary punishment hits you disproportionally milder.

It's funny that you seem to be worried about the poor for which this type of punishment is probably absolutely devastating and not very likely to have any positive results at all. The poor are a problem, not because they might not pay, but because the punishment might be excessive and not lead to a positive outcome for them (i.e. it doesn't prevent repeat offenses).

Preventing repeat offenses and being a deterrent seem like the only two legitimate justifications for punishment to me, and I'm not sure whether money can do that.

<comment><USER3> It depends on what we're talking about. If a person stole money then they should have to pay that back with reasonable interest. So that wouldn't be tied to how much money the person has, they're basically giving back what they took.

If it is some other crime that can't be handled by simply giving the money back you could just scale up the costs, for example. E.g. if you make $1m/yr, then the penalty is 90% of your earnings. If you make $10m/yr, it's 99%.

Just brainstorming. I don't know what the proper solution is, but looking people in a cage seems crazy to me.

<comment><USER4> _If a person stole money then they should have to pay that back with reasonable interest._

What if I attempt to steal money, but fail? Do I get to walk away unpunished?

 _they're basically giving back what they took._

What incentive is there then to not try to steal? Best case scenario I retire on a tropical island with tens of millions in the bank. Worst case scenario I end up more or less where I started and can just try again next week.

 _if you make $1m/yr, then the penalty is 90% of your earnings. If you make $10m/yr, it's 99%._

What if I make $50k/yr according to the IRS, but have millions stashed away in hidden bank accounts? Do I simply pay $5000-10000 and move on to my next crime? You're basically describing a system where there is essentially no downside to white-collar crime unless you are monumentally stupid.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I can't help but wonder: What is the point of the 11$ million debt? He'll obviously never be able to pay even the tiniest part of the money, so why bother?

How do they calculate the monetary "damages" any way?

<comment><USER7> Sure he can. He (and probably is still doing) made lots of money through advertisements on thepiratebay.

<comment><USER8> Actually, I don't think that's at all probable. See the comment on the Torrentfreak thread about all that. There is a tremendous amount of expense in running TPB.

<comment><USER9> A tremendous amount of expense where? Servers are cheap, bandwidth is cheap and they don't do trackers or even serve torrent files now, and they don't produce content.

The only thing there's a tremendous amount of is ad impressions.

<comment><USER8> Like I said, that's all dealt with on the OP thread. Did you not read it? No? Let's review then:

1\. Legal costs. 2\. Operators for each mirror. 3\. High prices for server costs. 4\. Multiple residences. 5\. Difficulty in attracting large advertisers.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I find the idea of openly pardoning people based on business interests extremely disturbing. Is this a thing outside of Sweden too?

<comment><USER11> He has requested pardon, not been granted it. I find it _highly_ unlikely he will be pardoned, at least using the business interest argument.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> He should be happy that he is not going to prison atleast! (electronically tagged in his apartment)

</comment><comment><USER13> > _After being found guilty of copyright offenses in connection with the > operations of The Pirate Bay_

Did Sweden fundamentally change their copyright laws or how could the piratebay guys be found guilty, in detail?

<comment><USER14> They downloaded copyrighted material illegally?

<comment><USER15> They may have, but the charges were "assisting copyright infringment" and not copyright infringement. (Medhjälp till upphovsrättsbrott).

<comment><USER14> I stand corrected. I was under the impression that the charges were unrelated to TPB since TPB is still in operation.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


PR2 Very Close to Completing Laundry Cycle - <AUTHOR> http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/home-robots/pr2-close-to-completing-laundry-cycle#.VG4Xc9W3_E8.hackernews <comment><USER3> Fun for parents: replace every mention of the robot in this article with your teenager's name and see if they are doing better or worse.

We could be facing the teen laundry equivalent of Deep Blue defeating Kasparov!

<comment><USER4> Just making an attempt, however futile, would outmatch many teenagers. Build a little three wheeled thing that bumps into the nearest washing machine and you've already beaten that game.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Innovation I have been waiting for - and would love to build if set free from endless employment is an automatic laundry solution: takes clothes from dirty bin, places in washer, then dryer (or combo) and then folds or hangs and puts away. The reality is that the home laundry systems are not well built for automation which is where a lot of the challenges are introduced. It might need to be something integrated into the closet or drawer system. I like to think of it as encapsoluted. I would put my dresser and hamper so that I have access and behind it is the robot which would grab the dirty clothes and refill the clean drawers.

The other one is pretty analogous - dishes are a giant waste of time. One awesome hack is having two dishwashers and then never using your cabinets, but its pretty hacky. The clean way is to integrate the output of the dishwasher with the cabinet.

I would pay serious money for this simply because of how much of my life is wasted dealing with clothes and dishes. The collective man hours world wide of these tasks is actually probably pretty insane.

<comment><USER6> I completely agree. Another bad design is bathrooms. I think they should be designed and be sealable like the inside of a giant dishwasher, and then just turn on a cleaning cycle to clean the entire bathroom.

<comment><USER7> I once read about a system that works like that. I believe it was a self- contained unit that was intended to be deployed out in a public place, outdoors, like a "port-o-potty" but more high-tech. Japan? Europe? Somewhere like that.

(On a related note, I have way too many specific ideas about how to do restrooms right. I've literally written documents about it, made checklists, done designs, etc. Most public restrooms Fail in one or more ways, usually several. Feels like should be a solved problem with best practices in place everywhere. Not rocket science.)

<comment><USER8> Various public restrooms in San Francisco work like that. I have heard of people trying to stay inside to watch the washing happen by tricking the occupancy sensors. I'm not sure if this ends well ever.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> This is what I've called The Third Machine for a while now.

      The First Machine - Washer
      The Second Machine - Dryer
      The Third Machine - <USER2>

I want to be able to buy The Third Machine.

<comment><USER10> It exists: [http://www.foldimate.com/](http://www.foldimate.com/)

On a commercial scale, big laundries have automatic folding machines. Clothing plants have folding, bagging, and sealing machines.

<comment><USER4> That one looks fairly weak. The video implies fairly strong requirements on placing the clothing to be folded on the machine. Do other machines exist which just accept a bundle of crumpled up, undifferentiated clothes?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Seems like this would be drastically simplified using a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combo_washer_dryer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combo_washer_dryer) such as these [http://www.homedepot.com/b/Appliances-Washers-Dryers-All- In-...](http://www.homedepot.com/b/Appliances-Washers-Dryers-All-In-One- Washer-Dryer/N-5yc1vZc3ot)

<comment><USER12> This was my exact thought and it would be even simpler if Monotub[0] or Orbit[1] existed/worked.

I know this is really about AI challenges rather than washing clothes, but the list of steps seems more complex than it needs to be. For example, I already put my dirty clothes straight in to a laundry basket. I don't think I'm ever going to need a robot to scoop them off the floor for me, I can't imagine my time being so valuable that I can't put my shirt in the basket.

[0] [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1740246.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1740246.stm)

[1] [http://www.coroflot.com/tiffanyroddis/orbital](http://www.coroflot.com/tiffanyroddis/orbital)

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Having a robot use a washing machine is awesome, but couldn't we cut out the middleman and just have the robot "hand" wash the clothes? I like the idea of replacing most special purpose appliances with general purpose robots. Instead of having a separate washing machine, clothes dryer, dishwasher, stand mixer, blender, cuisinart, toaster, trash compactor, icemaker, breadmaker, rice cooker, and garbage disposal, your general purpose robot could handle it all with a few tools.

</comment><comment><USER14> Despite the awesomeness of the robotics achievement, I can't help but be mildly disappointed this isn't about cstross' works: [http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog- static/2011/01/laundry-...](http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog- static/2011/01/laundry-reading-order.html)

</comment><comment><USER15> Please add "empty pants pockets" to that list of a complete laundry cycle. Otherwise the only thing PR2 is close to is ruining all my clothes. :-) Lip balm, pens, crayons, etc.

And while we're at it, it also needs to treat any stains, otherwise you may make them worse. :-)

<comment><USER16> In my household (with my wife and I doing the laundry), items in pockets are considered to be unacceptable input for the laundry chute, with undefined behavior. I imagine that many other households are similar. It'd be a bit unfair to hold the robots to a higher standard.

Similar for stains: They need to be treated before they go into the normal laundry cycle, and are often given special treatment for the entire process.

<comment><USER15> Garbage in, garbage out, eh? :-) Well then the robot needs to stop picking up clothes off the floor. ;-)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> This is really fantastic progress. I've always wanted to build a fully automated home, which would include a laundry robot like this.

</comment><comment><USER10> That's great! I thought that effort died with Willow Robotics, but it continues.</comment>


This Will End Well: Our greatest daredevil stares down middle age - <AUTHOR> http://thewalrus.ca/this-will-end-well/ <comment><USER2> "Our greatest daredevil" is quite the claim, and I don't see it backed up in the article (skimming) either.</comment>


Show HN: HTML5 webcam pics to email with motion detection - <AUTHOR> https://pixeltwenty.com/picstoemail.html <comment><USER3> Somewhat unrelated, but on the topic of detecting motion, I have a Nest Outdoor camera and subscribe to Nest's "Nest Aware" service for $10 a month, which enables me to save a week's worth of video and also is supposed to give me "intelligent" alerts when motion is detected, and is supposed to use "advanced cloud algorithms" to let me know when important things are happening and whether or not I should be notified.

I'm honestly really disappointed in it because 99% of the alerts I get from this camera are false alarms. The most frequent offender is light from passing vehicles. It is worse when it has rained and the reflection of headlights can be seen in the "zone" I have set up to send me alerts. You would think Google would be able to drop false alarms down to nothing for the common things like everyday street traffic, but apparently not.

They also have a weird rule where you can only get 1 notification within a 30 minute window. So if I take my garbage outside and the camera sees me, it will send an alert. If an axe murderer comes onto the property 20 minutes after that, the camera won't alert me.

<comment><USER4> I've never been more disappointed in a product than the Nest Cam. Nest's lack of panning and zooming, and a subscription service PER camera? False alarms so frequent that i ignore them now, which defeats the purpose? I don't know if it was marketed as a security device or i just assumed it would be, but its far from a good security device in my case.

I used to have 3 Foscam's (now rebranded to Amcrest) recording to a local central server, backing up to an offsite location, and tried with some success to get imageMagick to weed out any duplicate false alarms. Thought the NestCam would be make things more friction-less, but its worse. (I lost the old setup but am probably going back to the new ones soon).

OP: to get around your notification rule, you can try IFTTT. I've had various levels of success: it always seems to work fine for a week, and then something changes (android update? ifttt update? nest app update?) and it breaks until i notice it again.

<comment><USER3> Thanks for the IFTTT recommendation, I'll have a look. This is my first camera. My first instinct was to go with something like a Foscam/Amcrest on a more "DIY" route but the thought of having something plug-and-play was nice too, especially with Nest playing up their "we use A.I. and algorithms to make this all work perfectly" angle, which I feel misled by.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> The motion detection takes place in the browser with JavaScript which analyzes and quantifies RGB value differences. HTML5 takes care of the camera. An email server is still required - HTML5 doesn't cover that of course. This works with up-to-date Firefox, Chrome, Edge, and Opera browsers on Windows, Mac, and Android (the OS specific browsers running as applicable on various platforms). I am currently aware of just Safari and iOS on iPhone/iPad not working - <USER2> camera view shows all black and I have not yet attempted to solve.

<comment><USER5> What if js could handle sending email via Mailgun, Sendgrid etc.? Then it could be self-hosted (though you may not want it to be, of course).

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the ideas. One thing I have wrestled with in the past is how to prevent exposing the third party site email credentials (credentials the page would utilize for accessing Sendgrid, etc.) if the emailing code were hosted in the local and observable JavaScript. With the current server solution, at a minimum the browser and CORS enforcement take care of attempted cross domain access ... which is probably just slightly better than nothing at all.

<comment><USER6> Let end users provide their own third party site email credentials.

<comment><AUTHOR> I like that idea. It could be an alternative, an additional option.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Be careful with exposing an open sendmail feature on your website. If it gets highjacked to send spam your domain could get blacklisted by google, yahoo, etc.

<comment><USER8> Sendmail is pretty much blocked everywhere anyways.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> This is great! Any chance you can open source this?</comment>


Microsoft VC Summit - <AUTHOR> http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2007/03/microsoft_vc_su.html <comment><USER2> Ever wonder why a big co like Microsoft would have a "VC summit?" Traditionally the point was to explain where Microsoft planned to expand, in order to frighten VCs out of investing in companies in that area. VCs being what they are, that kind of thing works surprisingly well.

<comment><AUTHOR> That's funny. Steve's probably a good guy to do it, too. I met with him at a small roundtable when I was leading a consulting firm (Microsoft gold partner). He was great--spoke 200 words/minute about all of the products they had right around the corner. I wrote them all down and then checked about six months later. They delivered on the Office Live stuff (about 50% of what he'd said), but then everything else was pretty flat.

He was fun to be around though. :)</comment></comment>


What happened to GitHub's status page? - <AUTHOR> https://status.github.com <comment><AUTHOR> It used to be transparent - tell me about response times for various services, etc.

Right now, we believe that Github is having an issue of some sort. The GH News Feed doesn't reflect recent issues and commits. Yet the status page says "All systems reporting at 100%" as of 00:00 PST, updated 7 days ago.

For a service we use to do our most important work, this is disappointing.</comment>


How to protect your cryptocurrency: An in-depth guide - <AUTHOR> https://blockgeeks.com/guides/paper-wallet-guide/ <comment><USER2> This site is banned for using a well-known upvote-selling and comment-selling service. Obviously this is a capital offence on HN.

I wish everyone would realize that when they do this, it is obvious in the data and not worth the risk. Perhaps someone could communicate to the upvote- and comment-sellers that they're wasting their time?

All: Spam votes and spam comments will get your accounts and sites banned on HN, so please don't.

<comment><USER3> Out of curiosity, how do you establish the identify association between the person who submitted the story, the person who manages the site, and the person who engages with the seller that you mentioned?

To me it looks like they could be unrelated different parties or even competitors.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Just what I wanted, a modal that blocks the entire page after you've read the first paragraph, asking me to sign up for something vague.

Surely the conversion on these can't be good?

<comment><USER5> I browse without cookies enabled most of the time. A very large number of blog-style sites like this one have become nearly unusable because of these damned popups. I'd guess I'm seeing them on 2/3 of these sites now.

I'd love to see a uBlock Origin block list for these elements. Hell, I'd pay for it.

<comment><USER6> The Fanboy Annoyances list blocks a lot of these. It should already be in your 3rd Party Filter's list. Just enable it.

Edit: Though it didn't block the one on this article...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> A great example of why the whole 'be your own bank' feature of cryptocurrency is not so great a feature after all.

These 'how to protect your coins' guides get longer and longer each time another weakness in the system is found. Next month's security guide will have even more steps, and you'd better follow them too...

<comment><USER8> I agree that it's complex for the layman, but in reality it's really simple for anyone familiar with how crypto works. Even if they didn't, I usually just explain it like this:

Your account number is made up of two parts - one part lets you view and deposit, the other lets you withdraw. You can give the first part of your account number to anyone (if you don't mind seeing how much money you have), but you should keep the second part you keep very safe.

In fact, once people hear that the second part (the private key) allows you to withdraw, they don't even need to hear the rest.

For many people though, they don't like the idea that people who can deposit can also view amounts and transactions. I guess that's why cryptos like Monero are worth looking into.

<comment><USER7> Understanding the difference between private and public keys is not the whole story. Users need to know about backing these up, but they also need to know how to clear them off of their computer in the first place.

You can go as far as having your private key carved into a metal plate so it'll never get destroyed, but if a copy of it happens to still be sitting on your hard drive, your coins are still at risk. Very few people will know how to securely purge their computer of this critical data.

Even worse, the 'offline' approach in this guide means downloading random javascript from different web services that you are just meant to trust with your private key. It's a disaster.

<comment><USER8> I was referring to the idea of a "paper wallet". I don't know of many (any?) people who store their Bank PINs on their PCs, so I don't see how anything you mentioned is relevant.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> The main issue I have with wallets, which is not really addressed in the article, is that the wallet formats seem to be continually changing. Will the software work with your wallet format in 10 years time when you finally want to cash in your coins? What do you do if it doesn't?

<comment><USER10> Your private keys will always work.

<comment><USER11> Assuming no crypto vulnerabilities are discovered.

<comment><USER12> While yes it's prone to various known/unknown attack vectors, and each crypto has a different surface area (like ethereum's smart contracts) The public/private key being one of them is unlikely. Computationally, cracking that takes a monumental amount of computing power that doesn't exist yet.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I think its fitting that blockgeeks.com has a modal block.

To add insult to injury, filling it out and submitting, it took a good 15 seconds for my submit to be processed and their modal to autoclose.

</comment><comment><USER7> So protecting your coins relies upon trusting the websites WalletGenerator.net and MyEtherWallet.com ?

<comment><USER13> You download and unzip files from those websites and then run them with the Internet turned off. You can inspect the source code to make sure it's ok. This article is targeted at non-technical users so a solution that relies on downloaded software is good enough. If you'd like a better solution, then I'm sure some research would serve you well.

<comment><USER7> Realistically, we both know that hardly anyone will check the source code, let alone be capable of spotting security problems or backdoors. Unplugging your machine from the network doesn't protect you either - who knows if the software leaves some temp files around containing your private keys?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Excellent piece of work.

</comment><comment><USER15> I've been trying to get a hold of one of those cold storage thumb drive wallets for a month. Everywhere I look is sold out. I guess people really are catching on to all the advantages you point out in favor of them. Great write up.

<comment><USER16> Best I know of, is to just make a Tails linux USB drive. It comes with a bitcoin wallet built in.

<comment><USER17> That's an excellent tip, thank you!</comment></comment></comment>


The Playbook for Poisoning the Earth - <AUTHOR> https://theintercept.com/2020/01/18/bees-insecticides-pesticides-neonicotinoids-bayer-monsanto-syngenta/ <comment><AUTHOR> This is about neonicotinoid pesticides, and their promotion in the US despite studies showing their toxicity towards non-targeted insects. Some highlights yanked from the article:

\- the American landscape has become 48 times more toxic to insects since the 1990s, a shift largely fueled by the rising application of neonics.

\- Studies have tied neonics to the disappearance of native bees, butterflies, mayflies, dragonflies, amphipods, and a range of waterborne insects, as well as earthworms and other insect invertebrates.

\- migrating songbirds suffered immediate weight loss following the consumption of only one or two seeds treated with neonics

</comment><comment><USER2> What an incredible and disturbing read. It's sad to see how willing we are to let bribery win out over science but thankfully the EU are on the right track.

I would love to see a follow-up on other countries as well - based in Australia at the moment means we didn't even get a mention but I imagine it's closer to the US than the EU on strategy and listening to solid science.

I've just setup a recurring donation to the intercept as well, this sort of thing is truly worth supporting</comment>


Amb - <AUTHOR> http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Amb <comment><USER2> By the way, SMT solvers are (sometimes) able to do this in a non-brute-force way. That is, they will actually make logical deductions to avoid exploring impossible parts of the space. I think logic programming languages will also commonly implement efficient searches for satisfying assignments so that you're not exploring the literal Cartesian product of the variable's domains in every case.

I've heard repeatedly about the interesting discovery that Boolean satisfiability is "hard in theory, but not in practice" because most constraint solving that we want to do inspired by real-world problems apparently has structure that software can identify.

But I also think this is an interesting challenge in its own right for thinking about polymorphism, even without getting into how to find opportunities to make the search non-exhaustive.

</comment><comment><USER3> I am not sure this really is "amb" in all its glory. The incredible power of amb comes from the fact that some of the computations involved may be crashing or diverging. Crashes or non-termination are avoided by amb in favour of the successful computations. Otherwise is just the nondeterminism monad.

<comment><USER4> C/POSIX permits a simple (albeit wildly inefficient) implementation that handles crashing:

      #include <stdlib.h>
      #include <unistd.h>
      #include <sys/types.h>
      #include <sys/wait.h>

      // Return an integer in the range [0, n) which
      // causes execution to succeed.
      unsigned amb(const unsigned n)
      {
        if (n == 0) _exit(42);

        for (unsigned i = 0; i < n - 1; ++i)
        {
          const pid_t child = fork();
          if (child < 0) abort();
          if (child == 0) return i;

          int wstatus;
          if (waitpid(child, &wstatus, 0) < 0) abort();
          if (WIFEXITED(wstatus) && WEXITSTATUS(wstatus) == 0) _exit(0);
        }

        return n - 1;
      }

You could of course parallelize this to handle nontermination, at the expensive of potentially many concurrent processes for a high _n_.

You can make other fun time-traveling functions following the above pattern. My favorite I call the "Groundhog Day" function, or "Cause and Effect" for Star Trek fans: when first called, it returns zero; if the program later fails, it is restarted from that function call, which returns the exit code. (I'm not really sure how useful this is.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> As I read this I thought "That's about one line in Prolog." I was wrong; it's two.

<comment><USER6> By that logic, it's zero LoC in the Python list comprehension version.

<comment><USER7> And zero with Haskell too.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> This is analogous to the shift and reset operators from delimited continuations. It's also analogous to branching and cancelation from Chu spaces or the idea of adjoint and norm.

I've been thinking about this a bunch. I put together a brain dump that I improve over time

[http://github.com/adamnemecek/adjoint](http://github.com/adamnemecek/adjoint).

</comment><comment><USER9> It took me a good 15 minutes trying to figure out what this was but it looks like a really neat way to solve certain problems. The example provided makes it appear that Amb is a way to build a solver of a defined problem. Is the efficiency of this totally up to the language?

It reminds me of riddles "what ends the first and starts the next for each"

<comment><USER10> Too me a bit too - this explains it better I think: [http://www.randomhacks.net/2005/10/11/amb- operator/](http://www.randomhacks.net/2005/10/11/amb-operator/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> The pattern of some code calling a function (amb) causing the original code to get called again later with the function returning different values makes me think of React hooks. It's a very convenient pattern for some use-cases.

</comment><comment><USER12> The C# solutions while solving the problem in a generic way creating an Amb class are far too verbose for me... I just added a .csx version that uses LINQ query syntax that it's quite more compact (and probably readable).

<comment><USER13> Your solution is more concise and I like the way it reads, but I'm not sure it actually fulfills the problem definition:

As the page explains:

 _The goal of this task isn 't to simply process the four lists of words with explicit, deterministic program flow such as nested iteration, to trivially demonstrate the correct output. The goal is to implement the Amb operator, or a facsimile thereof that is possible within the language limitations._

<comment><USER12> I completely agree, but it's an almost generic way of solving that problem in C#. It's pretty much equivalent to the F#, Haskell and python list comprehension solution listed in that page. The only difference is that the F# and Haskell solutions are kind of cheating creating an amb function that is just id (the identity function) while the python solution is more honest because you don't really need amb to solve that problem with list comprehension (or the list monad). My solution is not completely generic just because of the limitations in C# LINQ query syntax that requires you to use the equals keyword and you can have the second argument appear only after the equals keyword, so for example I had to cheat using b / 8 in the solution (instead of the more obvious a*b == 8) to find the number that multiplied by themselves give 8. So in that case it will explode if 0 is an element of the second array, and it's easily solved just by adding a where clause in the definition of the second array, but I didn't want to overcomplicate the solution because it doesn't add anything useful about the general problem. If I wanted to cheat like the F# and Haskell solutions I could have added just this line:

      T[] Amb(params T[] l) => l;

and I would have defined the arrays in this way:

      var w1 = Amb("the", "that", "a");

But i thought that it was an unnecessary gimmick just to have the Amb operator appear there even if it's not needed (0 lines of code Amb definition as some comments in here suggest).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> About last year, this [1] article on the Amb operator was featured in HN, so back then, I grabbed the Rosettacode Go example and wrote a blogpost[2], going through such an example. Feel free to check it out!

[1] [http://www.randomhacks.net/2005/10/11/amb- operator/](http://www.randomhacks.net/2005/10/11/amb-operator/)

[2] [https://tpaschalis.github.io/golang-amb- operator/](https://tpaschalis.github.io/golang-amb-operator/)

</comment><comment><USER15> I think this just flatmap / bind over lazy lists in languages that support it.

<comment><USER12> Not exactly. I had to use SelectMany (flatmap) in my .csx solution, but the core of the solution is the join (or the for-if in the python list comprehension solution and the if-guard over the list monad in the F#/Haskell solutions)

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Got to love the Perl solution that uses fork(). TMTOWTDI!

</comment><comment><USER17> Look how nice and concise and readable the F# or even the Pure Basic examples are compared to Rust.

<comment><USER18> The PureBasic and Rust versions don't seem valid to me. They each have a so- called "Amb" function that can _only_ process lists of words that start and end with the same letters. And if they can't even get the prompt right, I wouldn't trust how well they act as examples of their respective languages.

The F# version... it's _okay_ , I guess, but the fully-functional "declare all variables at the start, then filter" style is definitely easy mode. It's not really comparable to an 'Amb' that properly supports imperative code, letting you declare ambiguous variables, compute things with them, then use those computations to declare more ambiguous variables.

<comment><USER13> The F# version doesn't really implement Amb either. It's similar to the PureBasic and Rust versions in that it can only work on sequences by checking that the last item in sequence #1 is the same as the first thing in sequence #2.

If I'm reading the page correctly, the task is to create a general Amb implementation and merely demonstrate it using the data provided, and _not_ to create a solution that _only_ works on data similar to the sample data.

So I don't believe any of the PureBasic, Rust, or F# solutions meet the requirements. Though since it's a wiki, someone might have gone in and edited/added to the solutions after I wrote this. :)

In comparison, the class-based C# solutions are a _lot_ more verbose but appear to actually solve the problem that was defined.

<comment><USER18> The F# version isn't _that_ limited. You can replace the 'if' with arbitrary logic, and that 'if' is outside of the amb 'implementation'. It can do lots of different computations with that structure. But there's no straightforward way to do things more complicated than a series of amb declarations followed by a series of amb asserts.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Hmm, many of the solutions are in fact invalid. Is the list moderated somehow?

<comment><USER12> Which ones? The ones that are returning an invalid result or the ones where an Amb operator is not really needed and just don't use it (or just cheat defining it as the id function)?

<comment><USER19> Take, for example, Tcl brutforce, Clojure and Wolfram which is written to only solve an example with words. Implementation in D does not seem to be right: they just define a function that takes list of lists and a function, which is not exactly what is required in problem statement.</comment></comment></comment>


The Math of a Hit TV Show - <AUTHOR> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703864204576315240324571266.html

<comment><USER2> Where's the math?</comment>


Do our pets ever love us – or do they just stick around for the food? - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jul/16/do-our-pets-ever-really-love-us-or-do-they-just-stick-around-for-the-food <comment><USER2> This looks like yet one of another silly articles along the lines of "do animals feel emotions".

The interactions between humans and cats/dogs are complex, we've evolved together. We don't have a chemical definition of _love_ in _humans_ , the species we understand best, so why bother with measuring serotonin levels an other such nonsense in cats?

All I know is that when my aunt and uncle left the country, their cat waited at the door for their return each day, every day for _months_. And when they were finally reunited, the first thing the cat did was sit on my uncle's lap.

Nearly every cat/dog owner can tell you a story of a deep personal attachment their cat/dog showed towards them, a story of how these animals depend so much on very specific humans they bond with. (There's one in the article!)

Why then seek for more "proof" in chemistry? You aren't going to measure vasopressin and oxytocin levels in your partner to know whether they love you. And it's not them telling you the three words that makes you know for sure anyway.

So stop doubting love. That works great with humans, too, after all.

</comment><comment><USER3> The behavior the author described has been called 'milk treading', and is thought to be originally the way that kittens coax milk out of their mother cats, but later in life can be a regression to a trusting kitten-mother like relationship between a human and a cat who trusts that human.

If your cat milk-treads you, your cat likes and trusts you, at some level, at some times.

<comment><USER4> I always heard it called kneading in the US. Perhaps a regional difference?</comment></comment>


Toronto area sent nuclear alerts by mistake - <AUTHOR> https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2020/01/12/emergency-alert-reports-no-abnormal-release-of-radioactivity-in-unspecified-incident-at-pickering-nuclear-generating-station.html <comment><USER2> I wonder how many people are killed per alert?

These alerts (usually AMBER alerts) are sent to millions of people, accompanied by a loud and startling siren.

You can imagine all sorts of "one-in-a-million" events. The surgeon woken in the middle of the night, who can't get back to sleep and makes a mistake the next day. The startled roofer falling off a ladder. Etc.

<comment><USER3> Not even that, the deaths and injuries are immediate for drivers. Canada implemented this in the worst way possible so that _any_ alert gets the highest alert setting possible (Presidential: what would normally be reserved for an imminent attack) - bypassing silence, do not disturb, and any volume or device setting. So Imagine a truck driver at 3 am being suddenly startled by the blaring alert and then scrambling to shut up the noise.

This will almost certainly be one of those things that future generations will look at us and wonder "wait they did what?".

Unfortunately the current dialog in Canada about this is "why do you hate children?" if you do anything but genuflect towards our AMBER alert system.

<comment><USER4> In the US, I assumed most people turn AMBER alerts off on their phones. Some people seem to get mad about people disabling them but some people get mad at just about everything.

<comment><USER5> I highly doubt "most people" even know how to do this.

<comment><USER6> Most people I know forget about their existence but disable them as soon as they get one on a new phone.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> It's pretty clear that the current Ontario emergency alert system doesn't have enough checks.

They need to pause the whole system and add in an external approval before messages are sent out.

Also everything is sent out at the "Presidential Alert Level". Presumably because someone gave the contract to their cousin.

<comment><USER8> Until the time its needed and there is a delay on sending out the message because the person(s) with the second set of auths isn't available and there is even more press about alerts to the public were delayed because of red tape in the alert system.

As someone who recently sent out notifications to a ton of people by mistake (accidentality set a number of twitch streams to live instead of just testing so sending out a ton of "X just went live" notifications for a handful of channels) a simple "Are you really sure you want to do this action? It will do this..." confirmation message goes a long way without the need of a 2nd person to auth the action. Just don't do the confirmation message unless its needed to prevent training people to just click though it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Reminds me an accident which was caused in Hawaii by bad UI and following rather funny examples of how can bad UI screw things up: [https://gfycat.com/blog/hawaii-missile-gifs-alert- terrible-u...](https://gfycat.com/blog/hawaii-missile-gifs-alert-terrible-ui/)

</comment><comment> 52-6F-62 Because of this alert I actually learned that Ontario Power Generation and the city of Toronto offer free Potassium Iodine pills to anyone living within 50km of the reactor in case of a radiation leak:

[https://preparetobesafe.ca](https://preparetobesafe.ca)

<comment><USER10> > How many pills should I have on hand?

> Each adult in the household should have 4 pills available, and each child > should have two pills available. This is enough for 2 days supply.

Is this enough? The radioactive half life of I-?131? is 8 days. Or is the dose so high that you won't uptake any from the environment for a while?

<comment><USER11> Or are they counting on their ability to distribute more pills within 2 days.

<comment><USER10> Seems like a strange situation to hope for the best and cut costs.

Maybe I underestimate the cost of iodine.

I suspect they were worried about people getting free iodine for their meth labs and nuclear safety somehow lost to that battle...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> The initial alert happened at 7:24 aim.

Between 8:06 am and 9:12 am a number of government officials, starting with the Pickering Fire Chief via CP24 [0] started announcing that the alert was sent in error.

At 9:12 am we were told the alert was sent by mistake via the alert system.

At 12:55 pm we were finally told that there actually was no nuclear incident, and the alert was sent by accident during training [1].

Why the hell did it take 42 minutes for _any_ sort of public information to be broadcast after the initial alert.

Why the hell did it take an additional hour and 6 minutes to realize they should send that information through the official system, instead of letting people wonder what information is accurate and what information is caused by the fog of war. Note that the same places we were told it was a mistake were previously telling us people were responding to an incident [2].

Why the hell did it take an entire 6 hours after the alert for the authorities to inform us that there hadn't actually been a nuclear accident, instead of a nuclear accident that was contained enough they didn't feel the need to alert us via emergency systems?

[0] [https://twitter.com/CP24/status/1216345708971929600](https://twitter.com/CP24/status/1216345708971929600)

[1] [https://news.ontario.ca/mcscs/en/2020/01/statement-from- the-...](https://news.ontario.ca/mcscs/en/2020/01/statement-from-the- solicitor-general.html)

[2] [https://twitter.com/CP24/status/1216337813957947393](https://twitter.com/CP24/status/1216337813957947393)

</comment><comment><USER12> Even if it was not a mistake, why would they send a presedential alert to the entire province just to tell them that people 10km away from the nuclear plant are in no danger? Pretty absurd, wish I could fully disable these alerts until the government is actually competently using them.

<comment><USER13> i am not sure i understand the reactions here... why are people mad?

the first message was very reasonable. it even said there is "no danger". to check with media and authorities. the second said the first was human error.

if i were driving, i would stop the car, call 911 and ask if anything was going on. they would probably say no, then i would be on my way. instead there is now an investigation, and someone who is already having a very bad day for their mistake is going to get punished even harsher...

should we start having trainings about these so people realize the possibility that these will become useful one day instead of getting mad?

<comment><USER11> > if i were driving, i would stop the car, call 911 and ask if anything was > going on. they would probably say no

They weren't saying "no", they were saying "we have no idea". If everyone called 911, they would be totally swamped, please don't do that.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Pickering area -- 40 km away from Toronto. Nonetheless, training exercise that erroneously issued a provide-wide alert.

<comment><USER15> It's strange that this article says "Toronto area" \- it was sent to the entire province of Ontario.

<comment><USER16> I'm in Gatineau, Québec and we got it too, so it even got broadcast to neighbouring provinces.

<comment><USER17> I was wondering about this today. How granular are the 'zones' used for these alerts? Is it just by political boundary? For something like Pickering, it would be useful to have a more geographical zone -- including parts of the US. Could the alert be sent out and limited to cell towers within a selected zone? Is the current system using tower location?

<comment><USER10> They have the ability to geotarget them, but fail at it regularly.

From what I understood from spectrum auctions, Gatineau Quebec is a part of the Ottawa area, so they're probably a part of Ontario side when it comes to cell system back-end.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> why-el Reminder to check out this amazing, heroic story of this man: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov)

</comment><comment><USER18> This was pretty freaky.</comment>


3M Tech Bulletin – Respirators and Surgical Masks: A Comparison [pdf] - <AUTHOR> https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/957730O/respirators-and-surgical-masks-contrast-technical-bulletin.pdf <comment><USER2> In case someone's planning on hitting the home store for something like a P100 you might find there, here's a little decoder.

> Modern filter media uses a built-in static charge to attract and retain > particles as they are pulled through. Some grades of filter can have this > static charge ruined when in contact with oil mist. The letter in a mask's > name tells you whether or not the mask can resist oil: N masks are not oil > resistant, P masks are oil proof, and R masks are oil resistant.

> The number in a rating tells you the minimum amount of airborne challenge > particles the mask protects against: an N95 mask keeps out at least 95% of > particles but isn't oil resistant, and a P100 mask is oil proof while > protecting the wearer from at least 99.8% of particles.

[https://pksafety.com/blog/respiratory- basics-n95-vs-p100/](https://pksafety.com/blog/respiratory- basics-n95-vs-p100/)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> In light of Surgeon General tweet [1] demanding Americans stop buying masks because they're not effective, to save them for healthcare workers who need them, here is some info from the manufacturer:

> _In conclusion, surgical /procedure masks are intended to help put a barrier > between the wearer and the work environment or sterile field. They may help > keep spit and mucous generated by the wearer from reaching a patient or > medical equipment. They can also be used as a fluid barrier to help keep > blood splatter from reaching the wearer's mouth and nose._

> _However, surgical /procedure masks cannot provide certified respiratory > protection unless they are also designed, tested, and government-certified > as a respirator. If a wearer wants to reduce inhalation of smaller, > inhalable particles (those smaller than 100 microns), they need to obtain > and properly use a government-certified respirator, such as a NIOSH- > certified N95 filtering facepiece particulate respirator. If the wearer > needs a combination surgical/procedure mask and a particulate respirator, > they should use a product that is both cleared by FDA as a > surgical/procedure mask and tested and certified by NIOSH as a particulate > respirator. Such products are sometimes called a "medical respirator," > "health care respirator," or "surgical N95."_

Includes decision tree highlighting potential considerations for the selection of respirators verses surgical/procedure masks.

1\. Tweet text:

        Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS!

        They are NOT effective in preventing
        general public from catching #Coronavirus,
        but if healthcare providers can't get
        them to care for sick patients, it
        puts them and our communities at risk!

[https://twitter.com/surgeon_general/status/12337257852839321...](https://twitter.com/surgeon_general/status/1233725785283932160)</comment>


Ruth Bader Ginsburg on Technology - <AUTHOR> https://www.ontheissues.org/Court/Ruth_Bader_Ginsburg_Technology.htm <comment><AUTHOR> Interesting resource. Clicking around on there, I was surprised how few tech issues have made it to the Supreme Court.</comment>


Take Naps at Work - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/23/smarter-living/take-naps-at-work-apologize-to-no-one.html <comment><USER2> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14651287](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14651287)

</comment><comment><USER3> I've never been able to nap. I'm one of the people who takes an hour to fall asleep, always have been. Even if I meditate and shut down my active mind, I can lay there for an hour with a completely blank mind, completely at peace, and completely awake. So I tend to just take 5-10 minutes during the day and do a full mediation session. It's enough to take me out of the day briefly and send all of my stresses somewhere else, which is what the point really is about, right?

<comment><USER4> If I "nap", it's either staying awake or going full sleep for hours. I found that just laying down for 15 minutes still provides a good rest. The body still rests a bit and the mind is more fresh.

<comment><USER5> This is a critical part of taijiquan practice, laying down meditation. It's amazing how many places your body is in pain and tired but you won't hear it till you lay down and relax into the ground.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Napping at work is a great idea if you want to be more productive, learn faster and improve your cognitive ability. It's also a neat way of making your colleagues and management think you're lazy.

<comment><USER7> You most definitely need better colleagues and management.

<comment><USER8> I think the parent lives in the real world.

<comment><USER9> First mistake-- need to take a nap to live in the dream world

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I NEED naps. It's just how I'm built. I can feel my I.Q. going down when I need a nap. After a quick nap, my I.Q. feels much improved.

Storytime: I once interviewed for job in Delaware. It was exhausting. I did great in the interviews, but my mind was burned out after all the technical questions. So I asked if they had a spot where I could nap for a few minutes. They were a bit puzzled, but showed me to a spot where I could sit in a chair and lean back to nap. It was great and I got the job - it wasn't till months later that they mentioned they almost didn't hire me because of the nap incident during the interview!

So, I do recommend naps at work, but I'd say not everyone will understand if you nap at your first onsite interview. YMMV ;)

Fortunately attitudes seem to finally be changing about sleep and brain optimization.

</comment><comment><USER11> I worked in a New Zealand shop that had a "quiet room" .. not everyone knew about it. You get a buddy on day one to take you around the building and not everyone covers it (don't think it was on the sheet). It had two recliner chairs a single mattress and .. a sink for some reason (We think it may have been a dentist's office once from the layout).

Other places I've sometimes found places under stairwells on bottom floors or used one of the phone rooms. 10 ~ 15 min is all you need really. Then just inject yourself with two more cups of coffee, put on your headphones and code monkey away.

I realize the IT field is kinda unique in that people can get away with this, at least with good managers who care more about your output and deliverables than the amount of time you're at your desk.

</comment><comment><USER12> I'm a grandmaster napper. If you can't nap at work, go on a coffee break and take a nap in your car. People will jawdrop at your effectiveness. Ask Spain.

<comment><USER13> Are the Spanish known for their effectiveness?

I'm sure I'm being stereotypical but I just known them as _taking_ long naps and lunches. Not necessarily boosting their effectiveness or country wide GDP as a result.

<comment><USER14> Food and drink in Spain is very effective at being delicious -- some of the best in Europe. I think it depends on the industry.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Apparently in Japan napping at work is honorable because it proves you are working hard and late. Funny that the idea of "slacker" isn't the first thing that crosses their mind. East Asia is a different land.

<comment><USER16> Except don't they actually work really long hours? I visited recently, it seemed like falling asleep on the train (etc.) was normal and they just looked so exhausted, i'd assumed it was the only way they were getting enough in.

<comment><USER15> I didn't mean to say they are slacking, just that it's funny over here the first thing we would think is 'slacker', but the idea of interpreting it as slacking just doesn't cross their mind.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Napping aside, when (or where) did "leaving your desk for lunch" become taboo? Is this an American thing?

In most places I've worked it would be unusual to stay at your desk for lunch, and in many places it would be discouraged. People really need to use their lunch time, however long or short, to actually take a break, not just from work but also from sitting in front of the computer, and maybe get a few minutes of fresh air and natural sunlight.

<comment><USER18> On a trading desk, it's unusual for more than one or two people to leave their seats at a time for lunch. And often, the team will order delivery and one of the junior guys will go downstairs to pick it up.

Once, I left my seat to go to Starbucks for about twelve minutes. In that time, the AVGO/BRCM merger was announced, and my BRCM position made $500k in my absence.

So there's at least one major industry in NY where it's generally discouraged for people to leave their desks.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> I'm interested in making it easier for people to nap at my company, but I'm having some trouble figuring out the logistics. I don't mind people taking naps, but I don't want to end up dealing with cleaning sheets, blankets, etc.

Any suggestions on how a small office (~15 people) can have a napping area without taking on any additional custodial work?

<comment><USER20> We have an unofficial napping area at work which consists of a beanbag under a staircase next to a warm window. I think a comfortable seat (i.e sofa/beanbag) is enough to encourage and support power napping.

<comment><USER19> Makes sense. I was worried that something like a beanbag would get gross over time, but I'm probably overthinking it. We already have a couple in non-quiet areas and they're fine. Thanks for the response!

<comment><USER21> a nice comfy couch could do

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Where I live it's law that a workplace with a certain number of workers must have a resting room where you can take a nap.

Sure enough my workplace has one. There was a big thing when it was discovered that another branch, smaller but still above the threshold of employees, did not have a resting room. Not sure how that played out but essentially you have an "employee safety officer" that handles the case with the union until the requirement is met.

I go in there around 15:00 and nap for about 30 minutes, apologize to no one. It's nice and dark, you put a note on the door so no one disturbs you.

<comment><USER23> And where would this wonderful place be?

<comment><USER22> Sweden. We have an agency called Arbetsmiljöverket, which translates to the agency of work environments.

They say that any workplace with over 50 employees needs a resting room.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Yet another reason not to punish your employees with an open floor plan office.

<comment><USER11> I use to hate the cubical, until I was in various open floor plan jobs for six years. Open floor plans are the next circle of hell. I know this because they make you miss the cube.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> I have noticed that taking a brief nap, 20 minutes or so, or going for a midday walk leads to an afternoon productivity boost. It's hard to do this in an office environment though, especially if you don't have quiet space. My closest office equivalent is a walk to the coffee shop. It's not even really about the coffee (or tea), just a mental lull to recenter my mind in executive mode and reconsider what priorities are important vs being immersed deep in code.

<comment><USER7> Sometimes just lying on a bean bag for 20 minutes, without any expectation of even light sleep, is enough to get me through the rest of the afternoon. This is even more true now that I have an 8 month old son.

The alternative is sitting at my desk pretending I'm not spacing out, which is good for exactly nobody.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> Several of my previous employers have been nap-friendly. At one we even had a hammock on a frame in the office; I used to lie down in that with a timer set for 15 minutes and nap when necessary.

My current employer has a 'pool room' with couches, plants and nature sounds. Great for a brief nap.

In my experience, this sort of thing is _especially_ helpful for new parents :)

</comment><comment><USER27> Their perfect guide to napping says to aim for 20 minutes and no more. This is really tricky because you can't just set a timer for 30 minutes because the time it takes to fall asleep is variable. Are there any wearables or techniques to solve this problem of starting a timer when you fall asleep?

</comment><comment><USER28> I can't risk taking naps, especially in an open space. I'm a loud snorer. I learned that the hard way back in college at an afternoon course, where, for some reason, I decided to sit first row in the lecture hall. My lab has nap boxes. However, I can't even use those since they are made of cupboard and are in the library of all places.

</comment><comment><USER29> This was one of the awesome things about switching to Soylent for lunch. I'd sip it at my desk around my lunch break, and close my door during lunch for an hour of glorious shuteye.

</comment><comment><USER30>
      Napped at my desk.
      Napped under the desk.
      Napped on the couch.
      Napped in my car.
      Napped in a meeting.
      Napped in the nap room.

</comment><comment><USER31> Good luck with that. No really, I like the idea, and I wish nappers luck. They're gonna need it.

<comment><USER32> There's an hour lunch break around all europe. Most napper could fit a 20min rest there without being reprimanded.

<comment><USER33> Not really. Lots of places here (Norway) use just 30 minutes for lunch.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> Although this may be true and effective. 80% of the folks reading this are just going to use it as an excuse to be more lazy.

<comment><USER35> because most non nappers are spending every hour of their day outputting world changing products, and the people who don't are lazy.</comment></comment>


IEEE Spectrum 2017 Top Programming Languages - <AUTHOR> http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/software/the-2017-top-programming-languages <comment><USER2> More useful is their focus on jobs side:

[http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/software/top- programming-...](http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/software/top-programming- languages-2017-focus-on-jobs)

<comment><USER3> No fun in that. Every list has Java at the top followed by C, C++ and Javascript. Maybe Python or C# next (cuz Microsoft). Every Job oriented programming language list for the last few years.

<comment><USER4> I have focused on JVM, CLR and C++ the last 20 years.

Of course I also used many other programming languages throughout my studies and career.

The fun is more what we build, not with what.

For example, the cool thing in a recent project was taking measurements from medical data readers used by health care laboratory robots.

The programming language wasn't relevant for the experience.

<comment><USER3> The fun part is about the list not the languages themselves. Benchmarks, reviews and rankings are just the perfect time killers for me but job oriented lists have nothing new to say for now.

<comment><USER4> Ah, sorry for misunderstanding it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I am surprised that R is so high up.

<comment><USER6> I had the same thought. It's surprising to me that R is above JavaScript.

<comment><USER4> Currently doing some projects on the life sciences industry, most researchers I have met are using straight Excel, VB.NET when VBA macros aren't enough or R.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> D did surprisingly well, methinks: Two places below Rust is odd, considering the vast chasm in (online: reddit/HN) mindshare between the two.

What is the definition of enterprise here? Matlab seems a bit too high up, or is there a use for Matlab that I'm not aware of?

<comment><USER8> A lot of engineers (MechE, EE, and so forth, not software) learn Matlab in school. They take that skill with them to the workplace.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I tend to be very skeptical of a list that puts python into #1 spot. R also so high? Again this makes little sense.

[https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2016](https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2016)

</comment><comment><USER10> Any list putting Python on top makes me happy. It still is and remains my favorite language and, even if the metrics of the list are highly selective and not a general representation, it's nice to see it represented.

</comment><comment><USER11> Any jobs list which has Python above Javascript and Java has to be flawed. Dice.com is hardly the oracle either. Indeed.com would have been a better source. I also think it's better to search job postings by title.

<comment><USER12> >> Any jobs list which has Python above Javascript and Java has to be flawed.

What data are you looking at to backup this assertion?

<comment><USER11> Indeed.co.uk by title search.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> How is C used in mobile? Do people write something in C and then cross compile it to Java?

Sorry for the newb question.

</comment><comment><USER14> Embarrassingly bogus, just click and see for yourself.

<comment><USER15> I clicked it and read it, and I see no reason to believe such, could you point out what is wrong to me?

<comment><USER14> In mobile, the top are: C, Java, C++, C#. C and C# aren't used for mobile...

In enterprise, JavaScript isn't even top 10 ??? and R is #6?

In embedded, the top are C, C++, and Arduino which isn't even a "language" ???

In web, top are Python, Java, C# then JavaScript -- nevermind that virtually 100.0% of all web apps include some amount of JavaScript...

I'm a big fan of Python... but not this way...

<comment><USER16> C# (Xamarin) is probably #4 in mobile after Java, Swift and Obj-C. But yes, putting C in #1 is pretty absurd, although it's based on a survey of IEEE Spectrum readers, who maybe are disproportionately working on drivers, 3D games or the mobile operating systems themselves.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> More ADA than Clojure? ha ha ha

</comment><comment><USER18> This list is a biased joke. The "12 metrics from 10 carefully chosen online sources" must be very bad chosen.

</comment><comment><USER19> I filtered by "Mobile" for both the "IEEE Spectrum" (which I guess means overall) and the "Trending" and Kotlin was nowhere to be found.

So I have to question the list in it's entirety. I know I"m a Kotlin fanboy and that it's not a "gigantic" language, but still, you'd think it would at least show up as trending for mobile in a 2017 list.

<comment><USER3> "So what are the Top Ten Languages for the typical Spectrum reader?"

This is survey on top programming languages among spectrum readers. So maybe spectrum readers are not into Kotlin.

<comment><USER19> Actually I was looking at the larger 40-some list, not the top 10, should have mentioned that in my comment.</comment></comment></comment>


The Dubious Sources of Some Supreme Court 'Facts' - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/02/us/politics/the-dubious-sources-of-some-supreme-court-facts.html <comment><USER2> The article glosses over an important distinction between the two kinds of "facts" implicated in a Supreme Court case. On one hand are the "facts of the case." These are the details of the specific dispute under review as formally developed in the trial record. These are the "facts" to which the Court applies its interpretation of the law. Applying the law to any other facts than these would be unsound.

Then there are "facts" which give the Court a broader context in which to place policy arguments. These facts are often not developed in the trial record, but are also not central to the disposition in the first place. When the Court makes a policy argument, potentially relying on "facts" cited by amici, they almost always do so in a way that is ancillary to a rationale based on a more concrete interpretation of the law and precedent. All of the examples cited by the article are ones where a dubious "fact" in an amicus brief is mentioned only to add color to the opinion.

The article, while it quotes Scalia, also misses out on a key aspect of his judicial philosophy. If you eschew nebulous policy or empirical arguments, in favor of concrete statutory or legal interpretation, as Scalia tends to do, you are naturally insulated from reliance on dubious "facts" (and let's face it, even many assertions appearing in properly sourced and cited "studies" are dubious). It's only when you venture out into arguments like "the law should be this because X% of Americans do Y" that you open yourself up to reliance on questionable facts and interpretations.

This is particularly true because the lower courts tend to eschew such heavily reliance on policy arguments, and so don't develop a record that includes the facts necessary to support them. Thus, the Justices that favor such policy arguments often have no choice but to rely on amici.

<comment><USER3> Okay, fine, but doesn't that mean the Court should have a staff of policy researchers to verify these claims?

<comment><USER4> A tiny minority of all significant cases get cert at SCOTUS. So really, you're suggesting an even larger staff of policy researchers covering all the federal courts. Note, when you consider that, that those courts can barely keep up with their caseloads as it stands.

Really, the reason this doesn't already exist is because as far as the Article III courts are concerned, it does: it's called the legislature. The constitutional design of our government assumes that legislatures are far better fact-finding bodies than courts are.

Our balance of powers is especially sensitive to the issue that the courts, built up further than they are now, would in effect be a panel of unelected lifetime-tenure philosopher-kings.

<comment><USER5> >So really, you're suggesting an even larger staff of policy researchers covering all the federal courts. Note, when you consider that, that those courts can barely keep up with their caseloads as it stands.

I don't understand why you wouldn't throw more resources at something that seems under-resourced. Am I missing something?

<comment><USER2> The problem isn't the resources. It's the avoidance of creating an unelected bureaucracy with a lot of power. As it is, the judiciary is really quite lean. The Justices have a secretary, and four clerks, usually recent grads that only spend a year on the job. And that's really it in terms of staff, discounting court administrative staff. The lower courts are all just as lean. If you add a staff of researchers, you're adding a whole new class of people with influence.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> As a layperson, this story could use a LOT more context. Over-reliance on amicus briefs may be bad, but having one law professor complain and then writing a story around it isn't much of a news article.

Some things I think I know about this subject. 1) SCOTUS is given broad latitude on how to do their job. Like complete latitude. One justice says publicly that they looked to foreign courts for guidance in resolving matters. That sounds totally whacked to me, but what do I know? 2) If you get the impression that the justices are sitting around the laptop, surfing the internet for blogs to agree with their preconceived opinions, you missed it. Each judge has a team of clerks whose job is to stay on top of both the case law and facts of the case. Justices are notorious for working the crap out of these folks and they're expected to do their work flawlessly 3) AFAIK, the amicus briefs are never used to determine the outcome, but can be cited as supporting material. That means, by definition, that they could go away and it wouldn't change the results. So the courts aren't certifying some off-the-wall facts; they're deciding based on the law and then citing all sorts of other things like the amicus briefs in their long-form opinions. Who knows if the same decisions would be made without those briefs? It is beyond arguing about, since it's a counter-factual.

All of these points should have either been discussed in the article or referred to by the article. Dear Mr. Writer. It's called context. Get you some of it.

I really wish the NYT would do a little more quality control. Hell, find some old cranky guy and run some of this stuff by them. Speaking from personal experience, the internet is full of assholes who would be happy to help. It shouldn't be the case that they run with it and then get taken apart so easily. And for the record, even though I took a potshot at the writer, I do not blame them, I blame the system they have. They could easily do a better job than they're doing. It's called editing.

</comment><comment><USER7> Shouldn't it be considered perjury to knowingly submit faulty information in an amicus curiae brief?

</comment><comment><USER8> The supreme court simply does not have the capability to perform fact finding like a legislature or executive can. A legislature can subpena witnesses, etc. It's designed to create law. It's designed to decide policy. The supreme court should stick to what it was designed to do. It should stick to the law and avoid policy.

</comment><comment><USER9> Professor Larsen's work on this subject goes back quite a way. [http://www.virginialawreview.org/sites/virginialawreview.org...](http://www.virginialawreview.org/sites/virginialawreview.org/files/1255.pdf)</comment>


Will.i.am and Simon Cowell have teamed up to find the new Steve Jobs - <AUTHOR> http://www.entrepreneur.com/blog/224542

<comment><USER2> I'm amusing myself with the thought that Steve Jobs _and_ Andy Warhol are somewhere in the great beyond and have just flipped a table at the notion of trying to find the "next" Steve Jobs via what's so erroneously called "reality" television.

But I'm just projecting heavily.

</comment><comment><USER3> Showbiz hype. Even Steve Jobs wasn't Steve Jobs -- his story is at least as much the outcome of the times and places in which he lived as his personal traits.

It's just a way to attract an audience to a modern myth -- in this case, that there are people who succeed regardless of the random circumstances in which they find themselves. There's precisely no evidence for this idea, and plenty of counterevidence.</comment>


Transform Your Bitcoin into Cold, Hard Cash - <AUTHOR> https://hackcabin.com/post/transform-bitcoin-cold-hard-cash/ <comment><USER2> Yeah, the Bitpay card is nice except for the dormancy fee. If you don't use it for 90 days they start charging you $5 a month. No thanks.

<comment><AUTHOR> 3 months without use seems like enough time to cancel a card should you decide not to use it. Any other insights to share?</comment></comment>


Hopscotch Hashing - <AUTHOR> http://mcg.cs.tau.ac.il/projects/hopscotch-hashing-1

<comment><USER2> This sounds good. Upvoted cause hashing could always use better/faster solutions.

Downloaded code and will look at it more.</comment>


How Qualcomm Tried and Failed to Steal Intel's Crown Jewel - <AUTHOR> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-20/qualcomm-s-bid-to-chase-intel-in-servers-fell-victim-to-broadcom <comment><USER2> >> However, Chandrasekher had earlier brokered a deal with the Chinese province of Guizhou to fund part of Qualcomm's server chip work. In return, the local government demanded the transfer of chip designs and exclusive rights to sell the processors in China.

This is common and the reason people say we don't have free trade with China. Many companies have made such short sighted deals which will be the death of US economic strength if it's allowed to continue.

<comment><USER3> China is not banning Qualcomm from selling chips in China if Qualcomm doesn't give up its design, but simply offers a deal that Qualcomm can choose to accept or not. One may argue whether the deal is good for US economy strength, but it is still free trade.

<comment><USER4> Would it still be free trade if all your design and IP you give up to not the Chinese JV but "Chinese" in general, and they then uses all all those learning into something of their own?

And no, you cant sue them.

<comment><USER3> It's a breach of contract, and it's wrong. However, when Qualcomm sells its tech, it should factor in this counterparty risk and decide if it is still worth it.

I'm not defending this kind of inexcusable behavior; I'm just suggesting free trade means Qualcomm or any private business can make its own decision.

<comment><USER5> As long as I'm not misunderstanding you, it seems you are confusing free trade with free to make a decision or not. Free trade means you are able to sell (or buy) things across borders free from government intervention. In this case, the government says you can only sell if you pay a form of tax (paid by IP rather than money).

In particular, what people believe is unfair is how these barriers are applied unequal. If Chinese companies want to sell to the US, it's free of such hinders. The other way around, on the other hand, it's not. (obviously this is not true considering the latest tolls and what not, but that's the core premise anyway).

Btw. Compare this to a situation when somebody is asking you to kill someone, or they'll kill you. You're free to make a decision, but not necessarily free as what people usually refer to when talking about freedom.

Source: [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_trade](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_trade)

<comment><USER3> I do agree with you on the general notion of free trade. But in this particular case, there is no mention of any barrier imposed on qualcomm products; the deal is about jointly creating a new product. What I disagree is claiming free trade while suggesting qualcomm should not do certain deals for national interest reasons.

<comment><USER2> >> But in this particular case, there is no mention of any barrier imposed on qualcomm products; the deal is about jointly creating a new product.

There is no mention, but often what happens is a company wants to do business in china and is told no while being presented an offer like this.

>> What I disagree is claiming free trade while suggesting qualcomm should not do certain deals for national interest reasons.

I agree with you that a company is free to make decisions any way it wants within the law. This is why we have ITAR to protect against weapons tech going to the wrong places. But if the US took a similar position with regard to other tech besides war-making, these deals wouldn't be legal. I wouldn't suggest we're having an economic war, but all nations are in economic competition and the stakes are potentially very high.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> It's a shame because the Centriq[0] was objectively an excellent and very fast chip. Last year I was doing make -j46 kernel builds[1], but even single core performance felt better than Xeon. And then they dropped it out of the blue in about May this year.

[0] Codenamed Hawker and Amberwing, based on the Falkor core: [https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/qualcomm/microarchitectures/fal...](https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/qualcomm/microarchitectures/falkor)

[1] [https://rwmj.wordpress.com/2017/11/20/make-j46-kernel- builds...](https://rwmj.wordpress.com/2017/11/20/make-j46-kernel-builds-on- qualcomm-amberwing/)

<comment><USER7> Did they actually publish the data sheets for this one? Is there mainline kernel support?

<comment><USER6> There is mainline kernel support. I don't know about how much is published as data sheets but it's basically an ARMv8 processor with GICv3 which boots using completely standard SBSA/SBBR. It currently boots using a standard Linus kernel.

They gave out a bunch of servers to many companies including Red Hat (where I work), but I don't think they ever made it to retail. That's a shame because they are/were spectacular CPUs.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Bizarrely breathless and short-sighted article when Intel has fallen so far behind in process shrinks and AMD multi-core is on the rise.

<comment><USER9> This is an objectively bad article. I'm still trying to figure out exactly which November the author is talking about. But I do think there is an interesting story in there if it was written by a better journalist with some/any actual insider information.

<comment><USER10> Agreed.

I'm still trying to figure out which Qualcomm product the author is talking about. Does it exist? Was it bad? Did people buy it? If not, why?

I don't believe the author's justification as to why Qualcomm was in the best position to make a success of an ARM server chip - there's a quote from a Gartner analyst and the assertion that you need a product road-map. What? Is that it? Surely the important thing is to make a good chip, make it cheap and produce enough to meet demand. Do that consistently for two years and the big cloud vendors will start buying. I don't think you need to be Qualcomm to achieve that.

Why couldn't a startup company break into this market? For example, this one [https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ampere-e...](https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ampere- eMAG-32-Cores)

<comment><USER11> Maybe this:

"the Qualcomm Centriq 2400 features up to 48 Qualcomm Falkor cores—our custom Armv8-based CPU core"

[https://www.qualcomm.com/products/server- processors](https://www.qualcomm.com/products/server-processors)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Qualcomm has been facing multi-front battles in the past few years: Apple Lawsuit, NXP deal nixed, Broadcom hostile take over, China problem, Regulator problems, Board In-fights, pressure from activist investor to "cut cost"/split the licensing business... etc, etc. Making the arm server business from 0 to a commercial hit would be too much to ask. Although it did have the best chance.

</comment><comment><USER13> I was disappointed to hear about QCOM shuttering the team building the Centriq, it seemed really promising. At least there's still (on the ARM server frontier) Cavium ThunderX2, with which GigaByte recently started rolling out ARM servers and workstations. (Of course, there's still also AMD, OpenPOWER, etc. in terms of data center competition for Intel.)

<comment><USER14> Yes, Cavium has been kicking ass. There's also Ampere's new eMAG thing. And HiSilicon server chips exist… somewhere. ([https://www.worksonarm.com/cluster/](https://www.worksonarm.com/cluster/) apparently has some)

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> >Qualcomm President Cristiano Amon said the company has "right-sized" the server business for the market opportunities.

I hate this corporate speak. 100% of the time this means that they fucked something up and they're going to can the entire thing because they've re-set their expected market share to 0. The only reason they don't state they've canned it is so that schmuck investors and engineers don't realize the project is dead.

The size they are now isn't "Right-sized" for the opportunity, it's "right- sized" for a project that missed the opportunity, and to pretend that the original investment wasn't the right size is just white washing bad management decisions.

</comment><comment><USER16> Seems like the tides have turned on this one, with Intel stealing Qualcomm's breadwinner modem business, thanks to the help of Apple of course. It's funny how things can change so quickly.

</comment><comment><USER17> Cavium is actively competing with Intel, offering ARM for the server space. You can rent cavium CPUs from [http://Packet.Net](http://Packet.Net) for a lot cheaper than Intel

Qualcomm's server unit demise has more to do with management than tech - Cavium built it's processors with fewer dollars than Qualcomm.

</comment><comment><USER18> More examples of teenage engineering discipline. OpenPOWER is the one you want.

<comment><USER19> OpenPOWER will never gain traction outside IBM. They are kept on life support by Google et al in order to have pricing leverage over Intel. That's it.

<comment><USER18> And ARM in the datacenter has a really stellar trackrecord huh? Everything changed post meltdown. Gmail is running on OpenPOWER.

<comment><USER19> They did it to show that they COULD switch away from x64 if needed to. Have they continued buying OpenPOWER systems at the same rate as they buy x64 hardware?

<comment><USER18> I don't have any FP&A details, only technical public and private. They are vocal about using it for GPUs. It's a much cheaper and more balanced way to glue Nvidia GPUs versus Nvidia DGX on x86 which also has severe bottle necks at the host bridge point. The private is gmail, which happened much later than the negotiating tactic point. It fits into a number of other goals including a completely open firmware stack. You only have to have cursory headline knowledge of the news for the past 2 years to understand why this is no longer about initial procurement cost.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


"Learn to Code" Is Strictly Better Than "Tech Bros Should Learn Humanities" - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@byrnehobart/learn-to-code-is-strictly-better-than-tech-bros-should-learn-humanities-379fd4e7601c <comment><AUTHOR> Ironically, the author does not seem to be aware of C. P. Snow's "The Two Cultures":

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two_Cultures](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two_Cultures)</comment>


What is the best way to learn Java? - <AUTHOR> I have currently no programming experience. I really would like to learn the Java programming language, but I feel like the resources out there are too overwhelming. Also, people are too busy to help me on a 1 on 1 basis. Any tips on learning a programming language effectively? <comment><USER2> First two questions: 1. Do you understand the difference between Java Nd JavaScript? And if you do, 2. Why do you want to learn Java?

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes I understand The difference. JavaScript is client-side. Java is back-end. JavaScript is interpreted through the browser, and Java is compiled using a JVM.

But the reason I wan't to learn java is because it's a common programming language that can help me think like a programmer. My goal is to become a software engineer.

<comment><AUTHOR> Specifically, I don't know exactly what I want to build using it. I just want to learn a language, that will help me think like a programmer. I want to learn languages, and then figure out where I want to specialize later on once I have all the necessary tools.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> If you have absolutely no programming experience I would not recommend Java as a first language.</comment>


Google Wave to be opened for federation today. Yes, for you to host. - <AUTHOR> http://thenextweb.com/appetite/2009/10/30/breaking-google-wave-opened-federation-today-host/

<comment><USER2> Now all we need is a reference implementation for the web front-end...</comment>


Gigapixel science - <AUTHOR> http://www.sciencemag.org/content/330/6005/748.full?sid=b5141267-192e-43bb-a599-cedcf062afd1

<comment><USER2> You have to sign in/pay to read the article.</comment>


Vape Regulation Is Coming - <AUTHOR> http://motherboard.vice.com/read/vape-regulation-is-coming-and-it-just-might-kill-the-industry <comment><USER2> From articles and interviews about the health effects of vaping, I've gathered that there are basically two distinct groups of people: 1) ordinary people, who hold views ranging from skepticism to enthusiasm, and 2) anti-smoking activists who are sure that vaping is as bad as smoking, no matter what.

The extreme anti-tobacco people don't believe in harm reduction. They also battle snus, which is far healthier than smoking and is _probably_ far less harmful than other forms of "chewing tobacco" due to the way it's processed. Rather than seeing fewer health problems from tobacco related products, these people would will stand on principle while people continue to smoke.

<comment><USER3> A lot of people get this idea of "poison, therefore avoid at all costs" in their head about a lot of things. For instance, my local makerspace does a "teach people to solder" table at public events to get folks into making things. So many parents upon learning that solder has lead, decide to take their kids away, because lead will probably kill them right now. Several times they have tried to get us shut down _because we have lead_.

It doesn't make it ok, just how some people seem to think.

<comment><USER4> This mentality is also present with food. "Genetically modified food is bad because the word genetic is dirty and I don't know what it means, even though every type of food ever has been genetically modified! Won't someone think of the children!?!"

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I really hope regulations don't go that as far as this article describes. I realize that formal review of drug delivery products are important for safety, but the deadlines they're imposing will hurt what vaping has done for public air quality.

I don't vape, but I wish that everyone who smoked in public spaces would just switch to vaping because of how much better it is on everybody around them.

There's a way to getting to what regulators want, but demanding things happen on a timeline that not even they can keep up with is ridiculous and needs to be rethought.

<comment><USER6> >I realize that formal review of drug delivery products are important for safety

Can we be certain of that? How do we define safety? The FDA focuses on ensuring that no one is harmed by the use of a product, but they pay very little attention to those who are harmed by the lack of access to a product. The institutional incentives that exist encourage this conservative approach to drug access.

There are also many forms of regulation outside of governmental regulation. No bureau is needed to verify the quality of my Uber driver, but they still tend to be better than most taxis I've ever taken. 10 years ago you could have said "formal review of taxi drivers is important for safety" and most people would have agreed with you, but fortunately some entrepreneurs realized there was a better form of regulating driver quality.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Vaping is clearly less harmful than cigarette smoking, and shifting from cigarettes to vaping is a great move. But somehow the most gullible vapers have convinced themselves that vaping is utterly harmless, and they should be able to do it everywhere the way they did when omnipresent secondhand smoke was taken for granted. So we get all this clear propaganda about how harmless it is, and how the nonsmokers are bunch of unreasonable fascists for not letting people do it all over the place.

</comment><comment><USER8> This "grandfather" date is so dumb and such obvious pandering to an existing large business faction: this kind of law should apply to everything and everyone. "We now require all food to be tested for contamination with [insert newly understood poison here], unless it was marketed before we discovered the poison... in that case, have fun!" :/

</comment><comment><USER9> This is so fucking stupid. People aren't going to give up their nicotine addictions; giving them a cheap and convenient alternative that is many orders of magnitude safer for themselves and their families than smoking is the single best outcome that could happen.

It's really simple: Make vaping less accessible, continue to destroy the lungs of children and others with secondhand smoke.

<comment><USER10> Exactly. I switched from smoking to vaping a few months back, and I haven't looked back. My lungs don't hurt when I wake up in the morning, I don't smell like cigarettes all the time, and my landlord has, based on some industry research or something, decided to let me vape inside.

I'm always trying to cut back and quit, but I'll switch right back to smokes if I can't vape.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Probition should be prohibited.

</comment><comment><USER12> I dislike vaping.

People thinks it's ok to blow those things in your face or near people.

It's basically spitting to me.

I also think Vape is bad for you and is up there with smoking. Just cause it less bad than smoking doesn't mean it's not harmless, it's just an excuse to not quit a harmful habit.

It's a free country but still I wish they can't vape in certain area or have a designated area so they can vape.

<comment><USER13> Do you drive? You realize you are pumping extremely harmful smoke into the air in large quantities?

I'd rather take a puff of someones second hand vaporizer smoke then to breath in the shit that comes out of your tail pipe.

<comment><USER10> Wat.

<comment><USER13> What was hard to understand?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Good. These e-cigarettes are the worse thing to happen to health in a long time. Just as smoking rates started to decline, out come vapor cigarettes which are in some cases more dangerous (exploding in peoples faces). I've seen too many people "vaping" on buses and trains for something to not have been done about it.

<comment><USER15> It's all pretty ludicrous even on the surface. A lot of vaping proponents try to argue the relative safety of water vapor to smoke, but in the end it's still just a delivery method for various chemicals including nicotine. Not to mention the vapor is just as obnoxious as smoke.

<comment><USER9> It's not water vapor, it's glycerin and propylene glycol, primarily.

You'd be right, except that the vapor condenses in seconds and the effect on others nearby is below the threshold of measurement, whereas secondhand smoke lingers for minutes or hours and is extremely measurably harmful to anyone in proximity of a smoker.

Nicotine itself isn't that harmful.

<comment><USER16> Propylene glycol? That doesn't sound good: [https://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/19870.htm](https://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/19870.htm)

>"Skin: In case of contact, flush skin with plenty of water."

>"Inhalation: If inhaled, remove to fresh air. If not breathing, give artificial respiration."

I remember in the mid-1990's, there were many articles pointing the finger at propylene glycol in personal care products for increasing cancer rates. Even to this day I use Thai salt for deodorant as I don't want to be slathering propylene glycol all over me.

I quick google search for 'propylene glycol' doesn't turn up too much for health risks. But still, I don't want the stuff touching, and I wouldn't want it in my lungs either....

Edit: and to the down voters, I am not anti-vape or anti tobacco. I think both are pretty cool. But as a neat freak, I don't want all my stuff smelling like smoke. And as a health conscious person, I don't want my last days on this earth ending with me on a hospital bed gasping for air from a failed respiratory system.

<comment><USER17> Why did you quote the generic 'first aid measures' section? The 'health effects' section is far less alarming:

>Skin: May be absorbed through damaged or abraded skin in harmful amounts. Allergic reactions have been reported. A single prolonged skin exposure is not likely to result in the material being absorbed in harmful amounts. Prolonged contact is essentially non-irritating to skin. Repeated exposures may cause problems. Negative results have consistently been obtained in guinea pigs studies for sensitization. 1,2-Propylene glycol is not considered an occupational skin sensitizer. (CHEMINFO)

>Inhalation: Low hazard for usual industrial handling. Inhalation of a mist of this material may cause respiratory tract irritation. Material has a low vapor pressure at room temperature, so exposure to vapor is not likely.

<comment><USER16> To each their own I guess. Those sound even worse personally.

"Inhalation: Low hazard for usual industrial handling." <\- Industrial handling probably doesn't include smoking it....</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Seth Godin on marketing - <AUTHOR> http://blog.businessofsoftware.org/2009/07/seth-godins-talk-from-business-of-software-2008.html <comment><AUTHOR> The talk is ok, he talks about how to sell a product (that may solve a problem that noone knows exists, so people may not know that they want) by integrating marketing into the product (using the product means spreading the word).

I wonder whether the Business of Software conference is worth my 2K.</comment>


Ask HN: What are some underrepresented open source projects that need support? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> [https://standardebooks.org/](https://standardebooks.org/)

</comment><comment><USER3> [http://opensimulator.org](http://opensimulator.org)

</comment><comment><USER4> Www.openearthview.net

<comment><AUTHOR> Is there some place I can learn about this project? The website isn't very illuminating.</comment></comment>