Ask YC: Do you mention that your service is free? - <AUTHOR>

Let's say you're developing a web application for a problem space where, until now, people have come to expect some kind of pricing model. And you've developed a way where you can do it for free.
When you're in this kind of disruptive position, how much attention do you draw to the "free" part of your service?
Is it cheap to mention that you're free? Is it informative? Would it be confusing if price is never mentioned at all? <comment><USER2> I have gone similiar route, but I would suggest to not go totally free. Having something for a fee in the outset with a free version is better because your users will sign up knowing that not everything is free. If everything is free they could even end up resenting that at some point you have some add-on for a fee that they are not getting, regardless of there ability to pay.

</comment><comment><USER3> _Is it cheap to mention that you're free?_

No.

 _Is it informative?_

Yes.

 _Would it be confusing if price is never mentioned at all?_

Yes. There are many companies which don't publish their pricing -- rackspace is the first example which comes to mind -- and nobody would presume that their services are free. In most cases I'd make the opposite presumption -- that the pricing falls into the "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" range.

<comment><AUTHOR> Gmail doesn't mention that it's free, but Facebook does.

It does have a lot to do with expectations, so I agree with you.

<comment><USER4> Gmail does mention that it's free. From the sign-in page:

Lots of space

Over 7256.934852 megabytes (and counting) of free storage so you'll never need to delete another message.</comment></comment></comment>


Life of a Sql Query - <AUTHOR> https://numeracy.co/blog/life-of-a-sql-query <comment><USER2> This is clearly a primer on SQL and meant for those looking for an introduction. If you're one of those people, then you would also be interested in this deck on the evolution of SQL. [https://www.slideshare.net/MarkusWinand/modern- sql](https://www.slideshare.net/MarkusWinand/modern-sql)

</comment><comment> munk-a I'm a bit sad this article didn't go into the life cycle of prepared queries with bound arguments at all, as that gets a lot more complicated and (given the way we should all be writing queries) is much more applicable.

<comment><USER3> Is it a lot more complicated? Conceptually, prepared statements are ASTs with "holes" in them, right?

<comment> munk-a Yes, and some people use prepared statements as one offs where a prepared statement will be registered and then some values will be sent to fulfill those "holes" and then we're done with the query, but prepared statements are reusable and pre-cacheable so it'd be interesting to know how communication from an application to a DBMS notes which statement it is talking about and what parts of the query plan a DBMS will reuse when re-executing the query.

It's quite interesting stuff, but because it's almost all details about the weeds a lot of abstract overviews of how DBMSes process queries skip over it as "implementation details" this particular article goes pretty deep into those details for regular queries so it'd be neat to see those details for prepared statements.

<comment><USER4> Hi author here. I actually just learned this from you. [https://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.6/sql- prepare.html](https://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.6/sql-prepare.html) will be my lunchtime reading. Thanks!

<comment><USER5> Yeah, parameter sniffing is also a concern and a thing you have to manage on the SQL Server side - it's led to probably the most venerable article on the topic in that community - [http://www.sommarskog.se/query-plan- mysteries.html](http://www.sommarskog.se/query-plan-mysteries.html)</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Gender-spotting tool could have rumbled fake blogger   - <AUTHOR> http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20581-genderspotting-tool-could-have-rumbled-fake-blogger.html

<comment><USER2> But how is this affected by sexual orientation? Now I don't actually know about this mind, but sometimes I drink in a bar that is a local hotspot for lesbians, and there are definitely some that are more masculine and some that are more feminine (clothes, haircut, choice of drink, etc). Whether that's just fashion or carries over to writing too I don't know.

</comment><comment><USER3> What they should do is apply these sort of algorithms to detect sock puppets and "personas" used by powerful interests to astroturf the internet.

</comment><comment><USER4> ...or not. Article notes that blog post came out as only 63% likely to be male.</comment>


Feedly coughs to cockup, kills Google+ login as users flee - <AUTHOR> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/08/feedly_kills_google_plus_login/

<comment><USER2> You'd think all the complaints about Youtube's forced Google+ integration would have given them a hint that it was a bad idea.

Also a company that basically got a second wind because of people fleeing Google's Reader decide they want to force integration with Google even more?</comment>


Hot property: A spacious missile base as your new home...  - <AUTHOR> http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=070924072636.vfa1kw6m&show_article=1 http://www.themissilebase.com/ for pictures.  This is in Washington State.  Not a bad base of operations after the Bay Area. <comment><USER2> Photos: [http://www.k7aea.net/Titan%20Missile%20Site/Titan%20Missile%...](http://www.k7aea.net/Titan%20Missile%20Site/Titan%20Missile%20Site.htm)

The location: [http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q...](http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Batum,wa&ie=UTF8&ll=47.233557,-118.811646&spn=1.314802,3.669434&z=9&om=1)

I'm from near that place. Note that the nearest town of significance is Odessa, WA. For some reason the seller is being cagey about the precise location.

More details here: [http://www.k7aea.net/Titan%20Missile%20Site/Seattle%20Times%...](http://www.k7aea.net/Titan%20Missile%20Site/Seattle%20Times%20Article.htm)

The seller bought it for $275,000 in 1998. This isn't the first time he's tried to sell it on EBay, either: [http://www.columbiabasinherald.com/articles/2004/04/08/news/...](http://www.columbiabasinherald.com/articles/2004/04/08/news/news03.prt)

</comment><comment><USER3> since i'm not a missile expert, the only thing I'm wondering is whether living in one of these things can either make you sterile or give your offspring birth defects

</comment><comment><USER4> This is over a year old.

<comment><AUTHOR> It is available again on eBay and for 1.5 million it seems a real bargain.

[http://cgi.ebay.com/Titan-Missile-Base-Central- Washington_W0...](http://cgi.ebay.com/Titan-Missile-Base-Central- Washington_W0QQitemZ190132455924QQihZ009QQcategoryZ1607QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

If I were to get into YC and become rich, I would buy this. Granted it would need a lot of repairs but it is so big you can just take one section and make it really nice. Maybe do a little server colocation in one section, a couple of apartments, school tours during part of the year, but otherwise just keep it peaceful.

I don't want to load up YC Hacker news with questionable articles, but I think this is some pretty hacker worthy property.

<comment><USER5> I joked on reddit that it was cheap compared to UK house prices. But you'd probably spend more on getting the place liveable:

At best it's empty inside, at worst, it's flooded, covered in years of graffiti and crap, the doors and stairs have rusted away and it's full of asbestos and other toxic materials.</comment></comment></comment>


Want to AUTOMATICALLY create infographics under 60 seconds? Be Early Bird - <AUTHOR> http://infograph.ly/

<comment><AUTHOR> We are launching startup on next week so get in as Early Bird! I'd be happy to answer any questions here. ;)</comment>


Y combinator, X chromosomes - <AUTHOR> http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21720621-venture-capitalists-are-bright-clannish-and-almost-exclusively-male-silicon-valleys-sexism <comment><USER2> I agree that an equally qualified woman should be compensated the same as a man. What I fail to understand is why anyone cares that the tech industry has more males than females. If more males are interested in working with technology than females are then of course there will be more males in the industry. Why do people see this as some kind of problem that needs to be fixed? I understand that having a diverse team brings different viewpoints that might allow for solutions to be found that may not have been found without that other viewpoint. Is that all that this is about? (besides pay differences)

<comment><USER3> > If more males are interested in working with technology than females

You put the "If" at the beginning of that sentence. It's a big "If". Imagine if that's just not true. Then just keep imagining that.

<comment><USER4> ? imagine if it's not true? the numbers say that it is true...

<comment><USER5> Don't you agree that the numbers are the way they are because of cultural stereotypes? If there were more female tech role models that females with a budding interest in tech can look up to, that would move the needle. I don't think you can simply say "look men are more interested in tech than women" and wipe your hands of the situation. We have to change our culture in order for more women to excel and therefore become role models for the next generation.

<comment><USER6> > Don't you agree that the numbers are the way they are because of cultural > stereotypes?

 _Partly_ because of cultural stereotypes. And partly because there actually are differences between males and females. The part that's because of cultural stereotypes, yes, we should fight. And the part that isn't, we should accept.

<comment><USER4> +1

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Ah, what assholes. I may yet have to write that piece about Jessica Livingston -- you know, the sole female co-founder of Y Combinator. (I keep hesitating to write it because I am concerned about it being seen as gossip and as saying not nice things about people. Oh, ha ha. Compared to tripe like this, it would likely amount to ass kissing.)

The piece that everyone seems to fucking miss is that Jessica Livingston and Paul Graham were the original two and he soon brought on his previous cofounders from Via Web. So, really, a woman is about one half of the success story here. And everyone just ignores that while they bitch endlessly about sexism.

I will just leave this here for now:

[http://paulgraham.com/jessica.html](http://paulgraham.com/jessica.html)

Can we talk about something else for a change? I am really tired of this old saw. My mother used to say "When you point fingers, three more are pointing back at you." I would like to know what constructive thing this article, its author and the publication it is in are doing to actually fix this while closing their piece with _Silicon Valley is a remarkable place. But it is time for the boy's club to grow up._

You first, dumb ass.

(So I did go ahead and clean up that draft about Jessica and posted it here: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14102279](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14102279))

<comment><USER8> > everyone just ignores that while they bitch endlessly about sexism

the economist is probably aware of the existence of female partners/co- founders; from the article:

> 6% of partners at venture-capital firms are women

> 40% of the top 100 venture-capital firms have a female partner charged with > investing

<comment><USER7> Title: _Y combinator, X chromosomes_

Sounds like a great lead in for "Hey, didja know that one half of the original team that actually founded this is really a woman who kind of isn't getting the credit she really deserves while people run around talking overly much about Da Menz."

Furthermore, Y Combinator seems to do a fair amount of stuff in terms of promoting female founder conferences and participating in them, and they have a regular thing here on HN here lately where they do something like "Ask a female engineer." So the title is basically smearing Y Combinator for what all of SV is doing instead of actually recognizing what is going on here.

It is sort of like saying "We are going to hang the only guy in town who is not a member of the KKK because he is white and we need a scapegoat."

<comment><USER9> > Title: Y combinator, X chromosomes

That's the title on HN. Where does it appear in the Economist article?

<comment><USER10> It's a section heading near the end. Obviously it still shouldn't have been used as the submission title.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> The economics behind women earning less just don't add up. If I'm a CEO and know I can hire women who do the same work as men for 20% (or whatever the figure is) less money, I'd only be hiring women. If the pay discrepancies are that great, why isn't this happening?

<comment><USER9> You assume economic actors are rational, when all the evidence shows that they aren't.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Since Uber won't punish Travis Kalanick, I want the marketplace to punish Uber.

<comment><USER4> what if the marketplace doesn't care? they only care about cheap rides</comment></comment>


PornViewer 0.0.1 - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/shenanigans/PornViewer <comment><USER2> Come for the witty README, stay for the actually pretty nice NW app structure</comment>


Show HN: Hacker News Night Mode – A Firefox Addon - <AUTHOR> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/hacker-news-night-mode/ <comment><USER2> Curious why the plugin does not use Electrolysis/e10s/webextensions because this will be required for Firefox add-ons in 2018/Firefox 57.

<comment><AUTHOR> I developed it a while ago and haven't taken the time to migrate it. It's on my to do list to migrate it and my other Firefox plugins.</comment></comment>


Interactive GPU Programming, Part 1: Hello CUDA - <AUTHOR> http://dragan.rocks/articles/18/Interactive-GPU-Programming-1-Hello-CUDA <comment><USER2> From the perspective of a CUDA beginner, this doesn't seem simpler than writing CUDA with C(not C++, just C). If you're going to pick up CUDA, starting with C means you get the best tooling support and community docs. Not to mention that managing pointers and explicit types in C will genuinely help your understanding of how CPU-GPU works.

If you already know Clojure, this is probably the best chance to extend something you already love using. If you don't, you're probably better off learning either CUDA or Clojure rather than both at the same time. Debugging CUDA errors are already painful, I wouldn't add a new host language on top of that.

For context, I'm currently taking my school's GPGPU course. We've just started actually writing non-trivial code.

<comment><USER3> The development feedback loop is _incredibly_ tight when using a clojure (or lisp in general) repl. The interactivity lets you interactively develop your code, including ( it appears) the C/cuda code since you can call out to compile it at the repl and then upload it to the GPU for execution.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I was irritated that it took 8 paragraphs to reveal it was clojure. And it was extra annoying that the vagueness was entirely deliberate.

</comment><comment><USER5> The obligatory links to the GitHub of the libraries used: [https://github.com/uncomplicate](https://github.com/uncomplicate)

</comment><comment><USER6> I hope CUDA will get replaced by Vulkan merged with whatever core OpenCL features it still needs.

Looks like Khronos are looking into converging them in some way: [https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Follow-Neil- Tre...](https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Follow-Neil-Trevett-and- Tom-Olson-Khronos-Group-Discuss-OpenCL-and-Vulkan-Roa)

CUDA unfortuantely is Nvidia's lock-in, so not a good way forward.

<comment><USER5> FWIW, all my libraries work with _both_ CUDA and OpenCL.

While I agree with your sentiment, unfortunately Nvidia is the only vendor that pays considerable number of people to develop the ecosystem. AMD basically says "get lost" by refusing to put more than a handful of people on the job of providing OpenCL libraries. And, BTW, they change their minds every few years. I hope that HIP won't be abandonware...

<comment><USER6> _> unfortunately Nvidia is the only vendor that pays considerable number of people to develop the ecosystem. AMD basically says "get lost" by refusing to put more than a handful of people on the job of providing OpenCL libraries. _

Vulkan itself is developed and supported well, and it already can be used for compute as far as I know. But apparently there are some features that come from the OpenCL world that need to be filled in. It wouldn't be AMD's exclusive effort. So hopefully things will start moving.

<comment><USER5> The language and basic platform is not a problem. OpenCL was and is OK. However, the _libraries_ are far and between. CUDA offers cuBLAS, cuFFT, cuDNN, cuSolve, etc. For OpenCL, even the decent BLAS library (CLBlast) had to be written by a guy who did it for free, while AMD's clBLAS is more or less stalled (and I never managed to build it on Linux in the first place), and that's it...

<comment><USER7> The ability just to swap in the cuFFTW header for FFTW3's making calls execute on GPU (even though it doesn't give the best performance) is also nice for beginners.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Followed along until I had to compile a kernel, now I'm facing a java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: Error while loading native library "JNvrtc-0.9.0-windows-x86_64" This seems to be a dependency of ClojureCUDA, but I don't see anything about it in their installation instructions. I have the CUDA Toolkit installed. Everything worked up to this point.

</comment><comment><USER9> Why do things using CUDA often require older versions of compilers?

E.g. ccminer. Try to make it, but it finds my modern gcc or clang too modern :(

<comment><USER10> The cuda compiler itself (nvcc) is far behind the features of more recent compilers. For instance, c++11 is supported, but not the full standard. It will take a while before 14/17 are supported.

<comment><USER9> how does that stop it from using the latest version of clang++ or g++? they are backwards compatible with older C++ versions. The context is linux and a makefile failing with a message that your g++ or clang++ must be a version older than something

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Are there similar resources/tutorials for GPU programming/CUDA/openCL for pure Java?

<comment><USER12> (Disclaimer: I created and maintain this library which is now apart of the eclipse foundation):

[http://nd4j.org/](http://nd4j.org/) \- in built GPU garbage collector and everything.

If you want raw cuda primitives (not generally recommendended and hard to do right) - you can take a look at our javacpp based (we also maintain this) cuda bindings: [https://github.com/bytedeco/javacpp- presets/tree/master/cuda](https://github.com/bytedeco/javacpp- presets/tree/master/cuda)

Unlike jcuda (which people typically recommend despite not being updated as often) we actually depend on this for the nd4j and deeplearning4j projects.

These cuda bindings are meant to be a 1 to 1 mapping to the cuda api as well. Hope this helps!

If you want a fairly small and minimalistic look at the underlying c code which uses cuda take a look at: [https://github.com/deeplearning4j/libnd4j](https://github.com/deeplearning4j/libnd4j)

All of this is published on maven central for you and runs on linux, windows and even mac. It's also the same api. All you do is switch the backend.

<comment><USER11> Thats great, thanks.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> In Polish, "cuda" means "miracles". Always cracks me up!

<comment><USER14> In Hindi it means garbage (not trying to be a jerk here, this is what it means).

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> I'd love something like this with Python and ctypes.

<comment><USER16> PyCUDA is more of a wrapper type, performance won't be good compared to native cuda.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Okay, so it's easier then directly using the the CUDA, etc., C toolchains, perhaps, but why not compare to Python + Numba, which has been available with GPU support for quite a while, and likewise avoids direct exposure to the underlying C toolchains, provides interactive compilation, can be used with a nice REPL (or, Jupyter Notebook), etc.?

<comment><USER18> The author wrote the tutorial as he pleased. Nobody stops you from submitting a better link.</comment></comment>


What Does A Small Start-Up Like Us Need To Do To Get Noticed? - <AUTHOR> http://blog.getyouram.com/what-does-a-small-start-up-like-us-need-to-do

<comment><USER2> If it's a widely useful startup and a genuinely good idea, it won't be as hard to get noticed. For something more technical/niche oriented, it's going to be harder.

I'd recommend Seth Godin's "Unleashing the Ideavirus" for a good outline on how to make your product viral.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the book referral.</comment></comment>


Functional Programming Is A Scam - <AUTHOR> http://swannodette.github.io/2013/06/10/porting-notchs-minecraft-demo-to-clojurescript/ <comment><USER2> This post seems to be a scam. The rather sensationalist claim in the title has nothing to do with the post, nor is it referenced at all. The post is mostly about reimplementing Notch's 'Javascript Minecraft Rendery Hack Thingy' in clojurescript; and the niceness of applying the Closure Compiler to reduce the size of the output.

At best, the author will later explain that they were conducting an A/B test of post titles and will later share with us the results of their experiment. As it stands, however, this seems to be simple link-bait.

</comment><comment><USER3> _Any headline which ends in an exclamation mark can be considered sarcasm._

</comment><comment><USER4> Total link-bait title. Better: "Porting Minecraft to ClojureScript". That's better, but still not entirely accurate since this is just a demo, not the full game.

</comment><comment><USER5> It's a pretty good post, too bad about the title. I should give Closurescript a try. I don't necessarily agree with local modifications though, not unless it's absolutely obvious.

</comment><comment><USER6> Anybody else wants to ignore 4 other comments already about the "linkbait title" and add his?

</comment><comment><USER7> What's with the click bait title?</comment>


Ask HN: How many side-projects did you start but no longer want to work on - <AUTHOR>

I started two last year, and gave up one of them. I am feeling/seeing that other people have a similar situation, so I started another project (ex-prj.com) few days ago to collect project people no longer want to work on. <comment><USER2> One. A google maps mashup with adds that would show you every trout fishery in the UK, and let you have directions to it.

I got it more or less functional, but gave up when I a) realised I didn't fancy typing in all the addresses, and b) found other sites that already did similar.

Still, it was a good learning experience.

</comment><comment><USER3> At least you tried. That is a good start. It's normal that startups/side- projects fail fast, the successful ones are only few of them, so keep trying and think more about what you will be building.

<comment><AUTHOR> Here is what I did: 1) build something useful, at least, to myself. Even no one uses it, it's ok. 2) try not to spend too much (time, money...) on the project unless it's needed. ex-prj.com is powered by tumblr. I couldn't believe that I can achieve that without coding.

<comment><USER3> there are some apps by which you can build some mock apps. You can show your mock apps to friends to get some ideas. If enough people say it's not that great, probably you can stop.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I started two, and now working on third. Previous two are closed. This time I am hoping to continue. I am not marketing guy. Getting problems in dealing with people.

</comment><comment><USER5> Made newsinamap.com A google maps mashup with RSS feeds from reuters. Stoped working after finding other similar projects

<comment><AUTHOR> would you mind submitting it to my ex-prj.com? hopefully people interested in your prj can contact you.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> All of them haha

</comment><comment><USER7> ex-prj.com is a cool idea, I like it.</comment>


Sprayprinter – A graffiti robot startup - <AUTHOR> https://sifted.eu/articles/the-graffiti-robot-startup-thats-turned-down-millions/ <comment><USER2> This seems like a good moment to remind about Jürg Lehni & Uli Franke's Hektor (2002): [http://juerglehni.com/works/hektor](http://juerglehni.com/works/hektor).

<comment><USER3> This one is so much cooler. Linear controlling is the obvious solution, but this does the proper approach angles which is awesome.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I can't help but feel that in some ways, an "artistic" ad is even worse than one that doesn't try to appeal so strongly to aestheticism for the sake of beauty. It's somehow more deceptive and insidious to me. I don't think the founders adhere to much of an ethical code if they are commissioned for any ads.

<comment><USER5> Elevating advertising with art cheapens the art. Mona lisa would be ugly garbage its intention was to sell insurance.

<comment><USER6> _La Jaconde_ /Mona Lisa it was funded to promote the glory of François 1er.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> If you're into robots watch one of the FirstInspires events on Twitch. Sitting in the stands at the Greater Pittsburgh Regional ATM ... It's pretty amazing what high school students can build!

<comment><AUTHOR> Is this the right link? [https://www.twitch.tv/firstinspires/events?filter=past](https://www.twitch.tv/firstinspires/events?filter=past)

<comment><USER8> I don't think that will get you a competition livestream. Most competitions this week haven't started yet (they're usually ~Fri-Sun). The game changes every year, but here's a sample match from last year: [https://youtu.be/jYjztOCT79M](https://youtu.be/jYjztOCT79M)

You might also be able to find something at a week 4 event today or tomorrow here: [https://www.thebluealliance.com/#events](https://www.thebluealliance.com/#events)

The _FIRST_ Robotics Competition is really cool (it turned 30 yesterday!), and if you like the look of it you should consider checking out or even mentoring a nearby team. They exist in many US high schools, and in some other countries as well.

<comment><USER7> It will get you a live stream of the practices I our region ...equals are all day Friday and Saturday morning and the finals are Saturday afternoon (about half an hour from now).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> The definition of graffiti pretty much includes property destruction. I don't get why that's ok with so much of Western culture.

I think street art is great and with permission have zero issues but going around trashing other people's property seems like a net negative to society as a whole. It sets a precedent. If you can trash my stuff then it should be okay for me to trash yours. That seems like a bad direction to me.

<comment><USER10> Is it your understanding that non-Western cultures would be more or less okay with graffiti? Seems like everyone else is if anything _less_ absolutist about private property rights.

I'm sorry you think that what I did to your stuff trashed it, but I think I enhanced it/everyone else thinks I enhanced/I didn't think you cared? It's on your outside wall, everyone else in the world has to stare at it/pass by it too, whereas from inside you can't even see it.

Sure, strictly speaking, legally no one has any right to do anything to it but you. But like, if you're asking why societally, culturally, it's socially acceptable to do stuff to that wall, I don't understand why that's hard to understand? No harm no foul; like, if I _set fire_ to your building, no one thinks that's harmless or acceptable. But if I paint something on your ugly outside wall, why would anyone be up in arms about that on your behalf?

<comment><USER9> then maybe you should grafitti the Sistine Chapel. You claim you're making it prettier but why is that up to you? If want to paint it make a proposal and ask for permission.

Besides beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 95% of the graffiti I see is just someone's name/callsign/initials. It's not remotely pretty. It's just blatent selfish self promotion

<comment><USER10> > then maybe you should grafitti the Sistine Chapel. You claim you're making > it prettier but why is that up to you?

Of course it's not up to me? You asked how it could be "ok with so much of Western culture". If we _collectively_ think it's prettier, like those Banksy pieces that were going to be removed but were instead made permanent due to public outcry, then we're okay with it. If we collectively think it's dumb/ugly/meaningless, like tagging (which is what it's called when people just write their name or initials or gang sign or sports team is apparently really common, too), then no one minds if we remove it, and there's certainly not much respect for it. If someone destroyed priceless cultural heritage like the Sistine Chapel by spray-painting over it, do you really believe that would be "ok with much of Western culture"?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> This is a wire robot but operating in a plane (or curved plane on the side of the water tower).

[https://www.researchgate.net/figure/A-spatial-wire-robot- a-C...](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/A-spatial-wire-robot-a-CAD-Draft- of-WiRo-b-Geometry-and-kinematics_fig1_200556782)

I would use a single pivot at the top and two wheels in contact with the plane, the path of the robot would then be an arc around that pivot point. The rest of the mechanism is analogous to an ink-jet printer.

The other option would be to construct a large [https://reprap.org/wiki/CoreXY](https://reprap.org/wiki/CoreXY) like mechanism, forming a large etch-a-sketch. I have also seen devices that used venturi suction to drive on vertical surfaces. Or suction cups mounted on pivoting arms that could walk across the surface.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you for these insights.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Have you seen Maslow? An open source large format CNC machines? It may have some ideas that you could apply:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60q6U7NjTQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60q6U7NjTQ)

</comment><comment><USER13> I thought a lot about a similar concept, using drones (maybe even swarms). Has this ever been attempted? I guess the energy and posioning constraints would be much tighter, but it would make for a fun project.

One advantage I see to using strings and wheels is that there is no strict requirement for spray painting, as it can be done with regular rolls. I was a bit disappointed to see that it used spray painting here as well (and quite a bit of sprays bottles per painting).

</comment><comment><USER14> I would imagine it's stepper motors and rotary encoders turning the pulleys, with perhaps some solenoids or servos to push the tops of the cans.

<comment><USER15> Along with some kind of Z-axis calibration to validate height (GPS or barometer based) since drift due to slippage or weight changes is quite possible

<comment><USER16> Or markers on the wires.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Some time ago I was brain storming about something similar but with a different tech stack to be able to plot from the distance. I wanted to mount a spray can on a quad-copter and keep the power supply external initially. The ultimate goal was to mark an area of wall using a separate device (mobile phone maybe) and the quad-copter would then fly there and do its work.

<comment><USER18> Check out GRL's old `l.a.s.e.r. tag` project. Projector based but used machine vision to draw on top of a laser pointer mark.

[https://github.com/LeonFedotov/L.A.S.E.R.-TAG- GRL](https://github.com/LeonFedotov/L.A.S.E.R.-TAG-GRL)

</comment></comment><comment> mark-r It's just an ink jet printer, scaled really large. The print head moves via motors and pulleys in steps along two dimensions. Unless there are patents that specifically apply I think just about anybody could do it.

Their dedication to art vs. advertising seems doomed to failure once somebody replicates the device.

<comment><USER19> > _It 's just an ink jet printer, scaled really large._

Yeah, just like Dropbox is basically an FTP account, mounted locally with curlftpfs, and then SVN or CVS on the mounted filesystem. Not to mention that from Windows or Mac, this FTP account could be accessed through built-in software.

<comment> mark-r Before the post title was changed it contained a question, "any idea how its hardware works?" That's where my comment was directed.

<comment><AUTHOR> I haven't changed my question - don't know why it's been edited or how?

<comment><USER20> The guidelines admonish us to "...please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize." [https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> there are several versions of this basic robotic design available for purchase both diyish and fully fledged products (neither one I'm about to list is spray paint based though, but in the case of the diy version, it could be hacked in with a redesign of the 'shuttle')

Sandy Noble's Polargraph (diy and very hackable) : [http://www.polargraph.co.uk/](http://www.polargraph.co.uk/)

the Scribit (buttoned up product with multiple pen support) : [https://scribit.design/](https://scribit.design/)

This looks like the exact same system but because of the pendulum effect when you "turn a corner" these guys wen't with just running it up and down in vertical lines and only moving a bit to the side when the line is done.

</comment><comment><USER16> Cool. Now please cover lots of ugly concrete walls with L-System fractals!

</comment><comment><USER21> You can see the cabling in the video on the official site: [https://www.sprayprinter.com/](https://www.sprayprinter.com/)

</comment><comment><USER22> Interesting as I just watched last night on Netflix, "Love, Death & Robots Episode 14: Zima Blue" which is a story very similar to the robot from the article.

</comment><comment><USER23> Looks like it crawls up and down wires

</comment><comment><USER24> consider Grafitti Markup Language [http://www.graffitimarkuplanguage.com/](http://www.graffitimarkuplanguage.com/)

</comment><comment><USER25> The technical aspect is cool for sure but I think the more important point is the anti-advert/commercial art stance being taken. It is extremely refreshing and inspiring.

<comment><USER26> Except they took the Nissan commission. The aren't anti-commercial, they're just commercial averse. Like Google is evil averse. If you're neutral you get to do bad things without being bad.

A lot of people want to be good as long as they don't have to sacrifice anything for it. Really, as long as they don't see themselves as actively engaging in the other direction, they sleep really well at night. They aren't good, they're just normal, but it's enough to maintain the illusion of their self image as a good person. If I'm not an asshole then I must be a good person.

Which I think is why we have so much trouble changing our peers. The moment we bring something up we've already challenged their identity. We've issued an existential threat. We might as well be brandishing a knife.

From the other side, when I give up things for philosophical reasons, some people characterize this as self-destructive behavior. A sign of naivete. Of immaturity. I only know two things. They probably sleep better than I do, and I'll sleep even worse if I don't do these things.

I begin to wonder if it's the case that the only people who _are_ good people will tell you that they aren't. Kind of depressing if true. Think of your favorite person and imagine that you like them better than they like themselves. Harsh.

<comment><AUTHOR> Being averse is still a good start though? - I was just wondering how long it would take for someone to replicate the technique and sell out...

<comment><USER26> In any other industry.

Maybe I'm getting sucked in by stereotypes but it seems like the art community is much more concerned with 'selling out' than most.

On the other hand, a plot device from a scifi book (Tad Williams I think?) has stuck me with the idea of creating slowly evolving graphics. If I were an artist I might get pretty excited about a robot who can paint and repaint a mural for me as many times as I want. Being able to change with the seasons or local events might entice me, regardless of how many ads have done the same thing.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> These guys aren't anti-advertising as much as they are protecting their bohemian "too cool for capitalism" brand.

</comment><comment><USER28> Graffiti !== Spraypaint

</comment><comment><USER29> Raster lines, nothing special.

<comment><USER30> Do you remember when you became bitter and jaded?

<comment><USER31> When I clicked this the title was asking how this was working. I think that's what this user was answering

<comment><AUTHOR> Hi yes this is what I was asking. I don't know why the title has changed!

<comment><USER32> Moderators change titles when they break the site guidelines. The relevant guideline is " _Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don 't editorialize._"

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

The submitted title was "Wall-climber robot spraypaints big murals, any idea how its hardware works?", which is actually more baity than the original (wrong direction!). It's also the sort of thing that will strike HN readers as transparently promotional, prompting them to flag a submission.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Strange Russian Spacecraft Shadowing U.S. Spy Satellite - <AUTHOR> https://time.com/5779315/russian-spacecraft-spy-satellite-space-force/ <comment><USER2> Discussion: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22207683](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22207683)

Other sources for the story:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22204838](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22204838) : thedailybeast.com

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22200881](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22200881) : Extended Twitter discussion

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22229130](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22229130) : interstellarspecies.blogspot.com

Other submissions:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22209705](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22209705) : theverge.com

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22196710](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22196710) : twitter.com

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22287833](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22287833) : technologyreview.com

</comment><comment><USER3> _at times creeping within 100 miles of it._

OMG! Within 100 miles! Oh the humanity!

Wake me up when it gets to within ONE mile.</comment>


2045 Initiative - <AUTHOR> http://www.2045.com

<comment><USER2> This has been around for a while and doesn't really inspire confidence in me, particularly as the page has been dead for a couple years.</comment>


Drawing Parallels Between TCP/IP and Blockchain - <AUTHOR> https://blockchain.works-hub.com/blog/Drawing-Parralels-between-TCP-IP-and-the-Blockchain <comment><USER2> It's possible that this underestimates blockchain slightly but yeah overall I think she makes a reasonable connection between the two technologies.

<comment><AUTHOR> blockchain is still very embryonic, if it has half the impact that IP had in everyday life then it has a long way to go!</comment></comment>


Universal Rules for Fooling Deep Neural Networks Based Text Classification - <AUTHOR> https://arxiv.org/abs/1901.07132 <comment><AUTHOR> "Here, we go beyond attacks to investigate, for the first time, universal rules, i.e., rules that are sample agnostic and therefore could turn any text sample in an adversarial one"</comment>


Flickr redesigns web and mobile apps to create a powerhouse in photo storage - <AUTHOR> http://www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/8562387/flickr-camera-roll-uploadr-mobile-redesign

<comment><USER2>
        "Gone are the days of having to create albums,"
        says Aditya Kashyap, the product lead for Camera
        Roll. "We're doing the hard work for you."

I guess Flickr really is abandoning pros and pro-ams. That's a pity, especially given that 500px still feels really cliquey.

<comment><USER3> ^This - as summed up in more detail here [1]

And these changes don't do anything for me personally.

1) Uploadr - as a semi-pro user, i.e. still using real cameras and lightroom (with plugin) to sync to flickr this means nothing.

2) 1TB of online storage, again as a semi-pro user, and i assume like a lot of other semi-pro users, i'm perfectly capable of running my own backup solution and wouldn't trust an online 3rd party online with hi-res versions of my pics anyway, so again useless.

3) Albums, search - again perfectly happy with the way these were before, i have a workflow that includes creating an album to sync to flickr which isn't cumbersome and i can guarantee the pics i want will be in it.

Flickr used to have a great community of people in it's groups (often pros), with great discussions with threads that were reasonably easy to navigate and search (much better than facebook has ever been) but that whole social side has died.

All these changes, just smack of dumbing down for the sake of smartphone users, but without any social side to it, i can't see why anyone, who already uses facebook or instagram (bizarrely considering the terms and conditions), would switch?

[1] [http://www.shutterphoto.net/article/the-flickr-debacle- what-...](http://www.shutterphoto.net/article/the-flickr-debacle-what-we-can- learn-from-flickrs-mistakes/)

<comment><USER2>
        i'm perfectly capable of running my own backup solution
        and wouldn't trust an online 3rd party online with hi-res
        versions of my pics anyway, so again useless.

I'd actually be happy to, if Flickr was willing to back up RAW files. But, since they're not, their 1TB is worthless to me.

        dumbing down for the sake of smartphone users,
        but without any social side to it

Yep, totally agree.

<comment><USER3> That's a very good point about RAWs, in my haste to dismiss it out of hand, i hadn't realised it doesn't backup RAW. But then just another sign of where it's target demographic is.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Does this read like an advertisement to anybody else?

<comment><USER5> I find myself wary of these types of articles.

As people become desensitized to clicking on ads, these articles seem to be the new ads.

<comment><USER6> Perfect example right here, which is an Ars Technica "article" from their new UK site, brought to you by a certain Microsoft product which just so happens to be worked in to the story. [http://arstechnica.co.uk/features/2015/05/ken- fishers-travel...](http://arstechnica.co.uk/features/2015/05/ken-fishers- travelogue-i-came-i-saw-i-launched-ars-technica-uk/)

<comment><USER7> ArsTechnica has always been a leader in sponsored articles. You can pretty much tell what any new product article will say, based on the company behind it. Most of their authors have a pervasive pro-Apple bias, with the notable exception of their resident Microsoft fanboy, Peter Bright.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I was never a flickr user, but I was always impressed by the devotion of those who were. I rarely encountered passive flickr users — they were always deeply in to it. The growing frustration with the neglect of the service seemed logical with such a devoted core userbase.

I'd be really curious to hear from someone who was part of that loyal following. This really doesn't grab me — but how does it look to someone who used to be a core user?

<comment><USER9> I've been using Flickr since their very early days, way before Yahoo. Part of my devotion is the fact I have this beautiful photostream which I have cultivated over almost 10 years, and represents the cream of the crop of photos that I took and chose to share. There have been times when I thought carefully about which photos I want in my photostream and in what order. Looking back is always a "memory lane" kind of experience, in a much more profound way than looking at my old facebook timeline. A picture says a thousand words, and all that.

Flickr was not, to me, a place to dump photos. Rather it was a showcase of a kind, where my most meaningful photos could be put on display. Maybe picassa was a dumping ground, but not Flickr.

The initial refresh was appreciated but confusing, and my use of Flickr declined. It took ages before any decent app at all was available for the Android and iPhone platforms. They fumbled the Facebook app.

Recently my use of Flickr has picked up again, but I've started to consider other services. With this new breath of fresh air perhaps that consideration will be stalled, maybe indefinitely. It's a competitive landscape.

I'm not at my photographic peak these days, but the photos are still meaningful and become more so over time.

[https://www.flickr.com/photos/slr/](https://www.flickr.com/photos/slr/)

<comment><USER10> I definitely curate what I upload to pretty much the same degree as I did for "slide shows." But I've long wished for a "gallery stream" that let me flag the photos I really want to show off versus those I want to retain for myself.

I'm generally fine with flickr even if I don't really love it. I use the jfriedl Lightroom plug-in and that lets me use flickr pretty effortlessly as an online repository and sharing site for all the photos I really care about. (And in so doing, serve as a really worst case backup although my raw files are backed up in a few different ways.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> This is the photo I see in about 80%-90% of the cases: [http://prntscr.com/72r7h8](http://prntscr.com/72r7h8)

At some point I was even a paid flickr customer. Last uploaded photo was from 2009 I think. Or 2011? Can't remember now because when I want to check I see the photo mentioned above.

<comment><USER12> I assumed this was a joke post; that's all I've seen in the last 45-60 minutes.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Still super-slow and I'm getting a lot of "Bad Panda" errors.

I've been a consistent Flickr customer (yes, I paid for Pro) since March 2005. I have about 9000 photos (I don't upload all my photos, just those I want to share) with over 2M views. The last UI update (last year?) slowed things down significantly and it seems its been getting worse. I'm crossing my fingers that this new UX will lead to perf wins too.

There's just nothing else out there that fits my use model... and I don't understand how Yahoo! can afford to keep it running.

</comment><comment><USER14> No matter what the Flickr redesign does, Yahoo cannot resist putting their purple toolbar on top, even if it completely clashes against the rest of the website's design. Have some respect for your own property.

<comment><USER15> The "Camera Roll" beta removes the "scarlet letter" of a purple bar, but I don't have the full update yet.

I'll be honest, their last update turned me from a power user into a once-a- month-at-most user, and I haven't uploaded a single picture since. I'm hoping this new update recaptures my interest, because the old flickr wasn't perfect, but it worked very well.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> I'm excited to see this. My big outstanding wish is reliable reduplication. My flickr is a mess of duplicate uploads from various attempts at organization and upload.

</comment><comment><USER17> It's one thing to see image recognition as a research project, a very different one to see it work on your own photos. I really like the "magic view".

</comment><comment><USER18> I use flickr to upload my photos to share with Facebook friends and colleagues:

1) I dont want my workmates all on my Facebook account

2) The Facebook album uploader fails 100% of the time if I do more than like 10 photos.

3) Easy presentation of camera/exif with location tagging if I used my DSLR is great for me.

For those wondering, the new app update still has my existing albums, it hasn't deleted anything that I can see

</comment><comment><USER19> I mostly hope they are fixing the terrible performance issues. Seems like I'm always waiting for photos to load properly.

<comment><USER20> The web site is agonizing, been slow for weeks, and today I've been seeing the bad panda a lot. The iPad app is screaming fast, which makes it more painful since I really only want to use the web UI on a desktop.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> I feel as though it is too little, too late. Flickr were in a fantastic position to dominate the online photo space (they did for quite a while) and then a little known app by the name of Instagram came along. Even the pros are using Instagram to showcase new photos, it has supplanted Flickr as the dominant online photo sharing platform.

That is not to say that people don't use it. Flickr is still quite popular, I use Instagram and Flickr to show off my photography (all of that space), but I think they need to start innovating and moving quickly again or risk neglecting their devote users for a third time.

Anyone else feel as though this new interface looks like the Google Plus Photos interface, like a scaringly close copy of it? Even the interface seems to act in similar ways to Google+

<comment><USER22> Facebook Photos contributed to the kill as well. To an extent, WhatsApp is doing the same to Facebook Photos.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I know a few people that upload all their photos to flickr. Browsing albums is great and sharing them except for the occasional "Forbes style ads" that come up.

But for 1 TB free space, a few ads seem to make sense.

I personally use icloud because it's seamless and I don't have to think about it. My photos get uploaded to Dropbox as well. But still I don't feel like there is one authoritative place I can go to access all my photos.

Most people i know still store their photos on their local PC with no backup.

It's a problem people have but not pressing enough to address it immediately.

</comment><comment><USER23> I have been using Flickr for almost 10 years. I got the 2 years of Pro Account for free in a event, and since then I have being paying a pro account, mostly as a backup service. Recently they changed their pricing and I was said I should not be paying anymore. It was very strange being a happy pro account customer and then being said I don't need to pay anymore, usually is the opposite happens.

<comment><USER24> Interesting. I just noticed the credit card attached to my 1 year Pro account expired in 2013. Still seem to have all the privileges of Pro.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> I was a pro user for many many years and was really happy to pay. But I have basically stopped using it after they made the 1 GB for free. I don't need more so it felt a bit weird to pay for the remaining pro features. But without paying for a service you're the product as we know so I moved my photos to my own website instead and basically stopped uploading anything to Flickr.

</comment><comment><USER26> What would you use instead of flickr? My usecase is uploading a bunch of photos to an album to share with friends/family.

<comment><USER27> If you don't care about privacy then Facebook or Dropbox Carousel.

If you do care then self host using OpenPhoto or Lychee.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> _" On Flickr.com, a new feature called Camera Roll organizes them into a reverse-chronological timeline."_

10 years on flickr in September.

Retarded idea. Where does the time information come from? The upload time (user & flickr controlled) or EXIF (camera controlled). My bet it's the EXIF which relies on a camera having the correct date. With 20K+ images a lot without correct dates. That's why I generate the dates in tags and titles for own search. Yahoo search is a joke.

 _" Using Yahoo's image-recognition technology, Flickr will generate dynamic albums for you across 60 categories including people, animals, landscapes, panoramas, and architecture."_

I don't want Yahoo's stupid idea of organisation of images. This isn't for users, people who pay. It's for viewers who search, don't pay but consume and so Yahoo makes $$$.

 _" But the real opportunity is in helping people manage and browse their smartphone photos"_

Nope, still like my choice of camera, pre-processing and manual uploading.

 _" What's impressive is what it's doing for free:"_

One of the great things about the web is you can put a face to the words. Casey you missed the chance to ask why the site is un-usable to show a page, why the front-end is rendered at the client and poor user design decisions like reducing the screen usage area. Flickr screen clutter has increased over the years making it harder to view and use.

Flickr never recovered after the departure of Butterfield, Fake and Henderson.

Read:

How flickr started: _" This Story About Slack's Founder Says Everything You Need To Know About Him"_

[http://www.fastcolabs.com/3026418/open-company/this-story- ab...](http://www.fastcolabs.com/3026418/open-company/this-story-about-slacks- founder-says-everything-you-need-to-know-about-him)

Technology behind it: Cal Henderson, _" Building Scalable Web Sites"_

[http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596102357.do](http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596102357.do)

Slack: Latest Company by founders:

[http://www.fastcolabs.com/3026418/open-company/this-story- ab...](http://www.fastcolabs.com/3026418/open-company/this-story-about-slacks- founder-says-everything-you-need-to-know-about-him)

</comment><comment><USER29> I'm excited to see Uploadr, which shares a name with Aaron Swartz's uploadr.py and does much the same function (syncs a bunch of files from my local computer to Flickr).

It's great that Uploadr does local duplicate detection (do not push the same file twice) and it's great that it automatically creates albums based on the folder name or iPhoto event name that contained the imported pictures. This is good. Super excited that I can pause and resume sync of folders to Flickr; this is way better than the old iPhoto connector.

But there are some problems:

* It looks like Flickr Uploadr, unlike uploadr.py, does not preserve the original filename in a metadata field. It's super hard for me to trivially prove that file DSC_9470.JPG or whatever got uploaded correctly because I can't just search for it.

* I don't love that Flickr Uploadr tries to auto-import stuff from my Desktop; I've got a bunch of screenshots there that were interesting at the time but are not photos I'm trying to preserve.

* Flickr Uploadr does not really do duplicate suppression, although its messaging suggests otherwise. If I run this program from my two laptops which both have some subset of my photos, it will push all the files from my local computer (but the same file no more than once) to the remote location. I have already carefully imported 5 of 11 albums exactly once into Flickr, and Flickr Uploadr is now carefully pushing all the photos from all 11 albums again (but is at least doing it exactly once!).

I have some utility code for de-duplication which hits the Flickr API to (1) download each photo that does not yet have a "checksum" tag, (2) compute its checksum, (3) set that checksum metadata. Then, in a second step, I have some utility code that (1) grabs each photo's checksum tag and (2) deletes all but the oldest version of each "duplicate" photo (same checksum tag).

I was hoping not to have to run this code ever again; I was thinking it was great that Flickr had finally started doing this work in the back end, and I figured that the 2-3 minutes of startup when Flickr Uploadr started doing work was time it was spending downloading checksums to compare against files on my disk. Evidently they have not done this although they have auto-added tags like "food" and "indoor" to my photos…

I'm now looking at files "sorted by upload time, newest" and seeing lots of exact dupes (fairly clear if I then "sort by date taken" and scroll down to the recently uploaded areas) and it looks like Uploadr does not actually do the duplicate suppression I was hoping for.

So Uploadr is currently busy pushing thousands of exact-duplicate copies of photos I already have in Flickr, which differ only in that they lack a checksum tag and all have title "Untitled" vs. the filename-as-title I got with uploadr.py.

I'll have a bunch of junk to clean up, which I am used to doing…

The messaging that Uploadr gives, which gave me a lot of hope, is like

""Of the 10844 photos found, 2643 are new and ready to upload, 4110 are duplicates, 3987 have already been uploaded to Flickr, and 104 are either too small or in the wrong format to upload with this utility.""

Also, it looks like this is currently a very popular tool! I got to see this adorable "fail panda" when I use the Flickr Web UI to click on photos and try to see the photo page: [http://i.imgur.com/YomGPfq.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/YomGPfq.jpg)

</comment><comment><USER30> Too little too late.

<comment><USER31> Can you (or anyone else who feels the same way) elaborate on that?

<comment><USER30> Instagram?

<comment><USER32> I feel like it's quite a stretch to compare Instagram to Flickr, they have totally different purposes.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Uploadr doesn't work with Snow Leopard (10.6.8). That's a dealbreaker for me.</comment>