Set-top box maker TiVo exploring options, could go private - <AUTHOR> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tivo-restructuring/set-top-box-maker-tivo-exploring-options-could-go-private-idUSKCN1GB314 <comment><USER2> It's too bad they're destorying themselves. I say this as a LONG time subscriber (over 15 years) who only has cable to keep my TiVo working.

The new software update they released last year that overhauled the UI completely is a total disaster. Change for the sake of change.

It takes more button presses on different/additional buttons to navigate the menus. You can't just use the d-pad and select. The menus aren't hierarchies anymore, they're just a mess you have to memorize. Fitts law doesn't work as there are things at the top of some menus you don't want to select so you can't wuickly get to the top without then pressing down two or three times.

Their fantastic guide has been replaced by a generic one and a new... thing... that's confusing as hell and worse than the old and new options.

Also, the guide data has been getting noticeably worse in the last two years or so.

I can't go back to the old interface, and even if I could I imagine I'd be shoved forward again at some point.

I'm really questioning why I'm paying so much for cable and TiVo if my TiVo keeps making me mad and they've shown ZERO sign they actually understand the issues.

Sunk cost fallacy. Time to give it up guys and course correct. You pissed off all the loyal fans and aren't drawing anyone new in.

<comment><USER3> I haven't tried the new UI yet. I saw the preview on their site and I wasn't impressed.

The guide data is bad now because Rovi bought them and switched to using their guide data.

They broke "push to tivo" functionality for their TiVo Desktop software and haven't fixed it for almost 2 years (if you trace the network traffic you'll see it tries to login at mind.tivo.com and gets a memcache error—sigh). This breaks my favorite usage of pyTivo, where I can ship stuff up to the TiVo that I've downloaded elsewhere.

Which leads me to…

This month I spent a solid week researching every option I could find to replace my TiVo+Cable and _none_ of them were very attractive. Pretty much every legit streaming service has unskippable commercials (IE, every iOS network app). And they also tend to get episodes the day after they air (I could live with that but some, like DirecTVNow on-demand, get episodes _weeks_ after they air). And the services that _do_ get it right (Netflix, Amazon, maybe Hulu) only have a small subset of the TV shows that I watch.

I came away very frustrated that the _only_ solution I could find that was a better experience than my TiVo+Cable was piracy. Torrents of practically every TV show exist, come out quickly, have the commercials pre-stripped, and don't have restrictive DRM.

I don't understand how people cut the cord. They must either not care about unskippable commercials, or they don't watch as much TV as I do, or they pirate (I was trying to avoid it, but man it's enticing).

<comment><USER4> I've been pirating everything I can for as long as I've been watching TV. My wife and I still have a box of CD-R's labeled in marker with our favorite late 90s - early 00s movies on them. Back in the day we've leeched off private FTP servers. Now we run a torrent box in EC2. Weirdly enough, AWS neglected to send us warnings in almost a decade.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

<comment><USER5> How much does it cost you to use an EC2 instance for torrenting? Doesn't that eat up a lot of bandwidth? Any guides you recommend following?

...I am asking for a friend.

<comment><USER4> At the minimum, you would need a t2.micro instance with enough disk to store files before you've copied them to wherever you're going to do the watching. I've tried doing this with a t2.nano, but the memory there simply isn't enough.

There are dedicated torrent box packages out there, but I have no personal experience with them, as for me tmux + rtorrent + nginx has been sufficient for years. It used to be that only certain versions of rtorrent supported magnet links, but the latest Debian stable ships with one that works just fine, so there's no longer any need to compile anything from source.

I do recommend reading through rtorrent's configuration file because the settings can make a difference in how long it takes to download something. Also, be sure to adjust your security to allow BitTorrent traffic.

As for cost, it's never been a problem: I haven't seen an AWS bill above $60, which includes a bunch of EBS volumes, the instance, the bandwidth, and my various encrypted long term backups in S3.

<comment><USER6> What's the advantage in using an EC2 instance as opposed to a box sitting in your house behind a VPN? VPN services cost about $6 / month or less.

<comment><USER4> I can (and do) use the EC2 instance for other things. It often pulls quadruple duty. The available bandwidth also allows me crank up rtorrent to aggressively seek other peers, such that a typical 45 minute episode takes about 15 minutes to download in 1080p. I then feed the https URL to VLC and watch the file. Torrenting directly here always takes longer. I've never tried a VPN, but it wouldn't make the bits travel any faster.

Additionally, in my household everything with a CPU and a network interface ends up getting cannibalized for some project or another. There must be a name for this phenomenon.

<comment><USER6> >I've never tried a VPN, but it wouldn't make the bits travel any faster.

No, definitely not; its purpose is only to hide your true IP. Fair enough, if I had other things running in EC2 I'd probably consider this as well.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> It is worth noting that guide data/patent company Rovi (not Roku or Rovio) bought Tivo in the summer of 2016, then took their name.

<comment><USER8> As a former employee at Rovi EMEA before the TiVo acquisition. I can't imagine any company improving from being acquired by Rovi...

<comment><USER3> Well, the guide data has only gotten worse since the acquisition.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Tivo's decision to require a large up front purchase in addition to requiring a large recurring monthly fee was always the thing that kept my friends from buying one after hearing me rave about mine.

They could have been much more successful than they were.

</comment><comment><USER10> Can someone explain the big appeal of TiVo to me, or at least what their appeal _was_? The set top boxes I've gotten from different providers are always a bit hit or miss, but never so bad I felt a need to purchase external equipment. It's been "good enough" and I never heard of a good enough reason to invest in TiVo. Was it the UX? For example, I purchased an Apple Extreme to use as my interface for my routers because there was a convenience to keeping all of my devices on the same wifi credentials, and only having to switch the ISPs hardware to bridge mode.

But I could never see the value proposition with TiVo hardware, though everyone who had it seems to have adored it.

<comment><USER11> I'm a fairly new TiVo user and have never experienced any other DVRs. The appeal of TiVo for me is a few things:

\- skip mode: while watching certain shows that were previosly recorded(mostly prime time) you can skip commercials at push of a button

\- ability to stream or download shows onto mobile device. We download kid shows onto the iPad and they'll play offline, and you can even delete the original off the TiVo

\- ability to manage recordings and setup one pass from mobile device. (One pass is a feature that lets you record all episodes of a particular show)

\- user interface: I never used the old interface, and have not used other DVRs, but the latest interface is really nice. I rarely use it to manage recordings but when I do it works quite well.

I'm probably an outlier in that I never had cable my entire life. I recently got cable and watch quite a few shows regularly. I never watch commercials and get to enjoy TV on own own schedule.

Long form TV, like sports, or live shows, and things like the olympics olympics are great to speed through the boring parts and watch what you want.

<comment><USER10> This is a bit late, but re-reading your post gave me some thoughts.

> skip mode: while watching certain shows that were previosly recorded(mostly > prime time) you can skip commercials at push of a button

This to me it's nice, but most DVR's now a days will do the same in 1-3 button presses, which is not the ideal experience, it's an inconvenience that does have a financial value attached to it.

> ability to stream or download shows onto mobile device. We download kid > shows onto the iPad and they'll play offline, and you can even delete the > original off the TiVo

This is amazing, and if my dog needed access on his iPad (he's my only roommate, ATM), I'd subscribe just for that.

> ability to manage recordings and setup one pass from mobile device. (One > pass is a feature that lets you record all episodes of a particular show)

This one is tempting me in spite of the status of this article.

> I'm probably an outlier in that I never had cable my entire life.

I would say an insanely valuable outlier. You lacked biases of DVR experience, whick is crazy hard to find. Thank you for sharing your viewpoint :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Considering the general shift among TV watchers to increasingly popular VoD services which are ad-free and do not need time shifting I'm surprised TiVo is even still around.

<comment><USER13> TiVo provides access to these VoD services as well through apps, so it makes a very nice one stop shop for accessing all of your media sources.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> I have a lifetime subscription and somewhat reluctantly got a Weaknees replacement drive after a failure near the end of last year. It was mostly to avoid making various decisions/changes related to cable service. I don't get OTA where I live so decisions weren't all that straightforward even though I watch very little live TV. However, I can't imagine ever buying a new TiVo and subscribing to the service.

</comment><comment><USER15> My TiVo Roamio plus Minis is such an awesome setup though. I have cable because of Tivo at this point. Such a great system.

<comment><USER16> I disagree. The hardware is extremely underpowered for the price and the interface is clunky.

<comment><USER3> If you know of anything that even remotely compares to a TiVo, I'm all ears.

<comment><USER6> Every computer I own demolishes a TiVo.

<comment><USER17> And that does what for a wife, the kids, visiting parents, etc?

<comment><USER6> They all use it. My son has been able to mostly-sorta-kinda work the wireless keyboard since he was two and my wife has no issues using her laptop or our theater PC which remains hooked up to the TV.

Visiting parents? Sure, I have to remind my Mom how to use it every time. That happens once a year, not a real concern given the thousands of dollars I have saved. Also, you may find that you watch less TV with a setup like this assuming your someone who typically has it on in the background nearly all of the time.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> I've used TiVo's since their Series 2 devices (started with a second-hand Sony TiVo which I replaced the HD) and have always had the lifetime subscriptions. Easily worth the cost.

However my current HD TiVo with cable card is starting to get flaky. Changeless will go black even though they should show a broadcast. Weird UI glitches. A reboot fixes it so I'm hoping it's the cable card and not the TiVo but cable companies seem hostile to cable card users so I'm not sure how to diagnose the origin of the problem. Unless things have changed I'm not sure they'll let me return and replace my own cable card and I'm reluctant to schedule a service call if the problem is my hardware since they'll charge me.

Anyone with an HD TiVo experience similar behavior before and know how to resolve?

<comment><USER7> If you haven't already asked over at [http://www.tivocommunity.com/](http://www.tivocommunity.com/) in the Help Center forum, I would.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. Had forgotten about that site.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I recall the fun of hacking the cheap TiVos (the Sony branded ones especially for some reason) to get a shell, upgrading the disks and so on. This was long before they had Canadian guide support, so that was the only way to hack in guide data.

But, once HD TV became the norm, the writing was on the wall for them. Frankly I'm amazed it lasted as long as it did.

</comment><comment><USER19> I love my TiVo HD 652160! I have five of them (stockpiled) on lifetime subscription with the 2TB hard drive upgrade.

My provider (WideOpenWest) fortunately has dodged the MPEG-4 low bitrate bullet that Comcast fired (which I was I left Comcast) on its subscribers.

I'll keep riding these TiVo's into the sunset, then I'll probably get YouTube TV.

<comment><USER20> Be aware YouYube TV plays unskippable commercials. Someone used to a TiVo will probably find it intolerable.

<comment><USER19> I really only watch live sports anymore, I torrent everything else.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Huh. TIL TiVo was still a thing. Are they just relying on past subscribers to stay alive? I don't recall seeing _any_ advertising, news, or otherwise about TiVo in probably 10 years.

<comment><USER7> Really, their big source of money is licensing, both software and patents on DVR technology. Well, now that Rovi bought them (and took the name) it's also selling guide data.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> It would be nice if they made their online (browser-based) streaming service actually work. Or at least work for more than a few days before they break it again.</comment>


Labor board rolls back employee email rights after Google recommendation - <AUTHOR> https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/18/21028033/google-labor-board-employee-email-block-organizing <comment><USER2> Google's position here is utterly disingenuous. They have been one of the leading forces blurring employees' home and work lives, and have reaped the productivity benefits thereof. But now that it's negatively impacting Google, they're advocating for a strict separation between the two. (Limited to organizing, of course — you're still free to push commits from home or stay late to play foosball with your coworkers and talk about work.)

<comment><USER3> What does organizing have to do with 'blurring ... home and work lives'? Union organizing seems like a focal case of a workplace activity.

I feel many commenters didn't take the time to read the NLRB decision or understand it properly. The NLRB's position (now, and also prior to 2014) is that companies should not be _compelled_ to allow organizers the use of corporate IT if other non-business use is not permitted.

That doesn't mean that companies are allowed to have discriminatory policies that permit some non business-related IT usage but ban use for organizing. This puts email back on the same footing as employer-provided telephones, bulletin boards and photocopiers etc.

<comment><USER2> I agree that organizing is a workplace activity. But if that's the case, why should companies be allowed to prohibited it on corporate IT? What other job- related activities are outright _banned_ on company-provided equipment?

Google's position is clearly that organizing is _not_ a workplace activity. That's why the point about breaking down the boundaries between home and work is salient. They are happy to blur those lines when it means their employees donating their personal time and equipment to benefit Google, but when it means employees organizing they try to prevent what they see as "personal" use of company property.

<comment><USER3> _I agree that organizing is a workplace activity. But if that's the case, why should companies be allowed to prohibited it on corporate IT? What other job- related activities are outright banned on company-provided equipment?_

It's a _workplace_ activity; but it's not a _business_ activity. By definition, companies are allowed to make rules about employee conduct and, in most cases except workplace safety/conditions, restrict activities that are not business-related when employees are working.

Imagine a company has a policy that says "company mobile phones can only be used for business purposes". So if you're making a sales call or rescheduling a meeting, that's fine - it's a business purpose.

On the other hand, chatting with colleagues about plans for the weekend would not be permitted; nor would calling overseas relatives and so on.

The NLRB has _always_ held that if a company had such a policy on telephone usage then it was also acceptable to restrict the use of that company mobile phone for union organizing purposes. That is because the policy is _non- discriminatory_.

If the policy said, on the other hand, "company mobile phones should be used primarily for business purposes but reasonable personal use is permitted, but you cannot use the phone for labor organization purposes", then that policy would not be acceptable because it's _discriminatory_.

The question is whether policies are discriminatory in treating labor organization less generously than other non-business usage.

The case in 2014 created a special case for email, where even if the employer didn't permit non-business use of email, then they still had to permit use for labor organizing. The recent decision simply undoes that special case and puts email back on the same footing as (e.g.) company telephones.

Given Google seems to have a vastly permissive policy on the use of company IT, it seems very unlikely they'd ever be able to restrict use of that same company IT for labor organization purposes; and there is _nothing_ in this ruling that suggests otherwise.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> That's fairly interesting, as employers then benefit from the progression of tech over time.

For example, building entrances and break rooms used to be significant places for unions to spread messaging.

With campus sprawl, "work from home", globally spread workforce, etc...that doesn't work.

The equivalent of the physical entrance is now often an employee portal. And break rooms / water cooler chat might now be company email or MS Teams / Slack.

<comment><USER5> > the Obama-era standard "should be overruled" and a broader, pro-employer > ruling reinstated

Yes, you can never have enough pro-employer ruling. I wonder if the fact that this is Google had any influence on the decision. Would Walmart have convinced the labor board of the same?

<comment><USER6> Kinda weird they didn't mention which "Las Vegas casino" it was. I didn't read the case, so for all we know it might have been decided the same way without the Google petition.

Still, rather a surprising decision...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I imagine the next best thing would be setting up a site/mailing list outside of the company. But I also imagine the company would take action to shut that down anyway. A very absurd situation.

<comment><USER8> Instead of trying to take it down they'll just make it very difficult for employees to even find out about it. Organizers are going to have to contact people one by one now.

<comment><USER9> And if you're an organizer relying on obscurity instead of NLRB protections, would you really feel safe starting that process by telling prospective members "hey, PM me your personal email" over a corporate channel?

If your company is too big or remote to talk in person, establishing wholly- external connections is not going to be an easy task.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> So would this apply if a Google employee used their personal Gmail account?

<comment><USER11> No, it's about email provided by the employer to the employee _qua employee_.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Google doesn't want its employees organizing. Why? One of the most crucial things about organizing is being able to contact your fellow employees. Yes the equipment is Google's, but also I would contend that conversing with your fellow employees is in service to the company, in service of making the company better.

If I am trying to organize I would just send a blast asking everyone to add their personal emails to list. Could google call that organizing and penalize? What if I just wanted a personal email so I could schedule getting a beer.

<comment><USER13> In many companies purposely sending an all employee email such as that would potentially be grounds for dimisal. I know of people that have been fired for accidently sending all company emails too many times.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Everyone has a smartphone and a dataplan now. This ruling won't stop anyone, it will just drive them underground. Secret WhatsApp groups are the future of social networking.

<comment><USER6> With all the talk about tech trying to unionize, and people being fired for unionizing at Google... Why haven't we actually seen any... you know... unions?

I keep seeing news about this, but I have a lot of trouble buying the argument that it's union busting behavior when I don't see any evidence of anyone actually trying to form a union in the tech world.

(That said, yeah it makes sense that Google and other tech companies would want to prevent it).

<comment><USER15> I'm not sure I follow your logic. You present as evidence that we see no unions forming. Wouldn't that equally well support the hypothesis that there is union busting behavior going on (to great success)?

You are also ignoring that Google is enlisting a union-busting consulting firm[1]. This seems like furher evidence that union-busting is happening.

[1] [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/20/technology/Google- union-c...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/20/technology/Google-union- consultant.html)

<comment><USER6> Not so. I don't present it as evidence, but I present it as a startling lack of evidence.

Take the other news story in the news today, about someone at Google who made a notification about something to do with labor organizing I guess. I read the blog post and the news article, and I'm just not convinced by the union- busting argument.

I keep seeing things like "X behavior is _like_ posting a flyer on a public bulletin board". So where are the articles talking about people getting fired for _actually putting up flyers on a public bulletin board_? That's the thing I don't understand. There is a startling lack of unionizing going on in these supposed cases of union busting.

To bring it back to this article, do I think the ruling is bad? Yeah I do. I disagree with the ruling a lot. Maybe there should be some kind of organization where workers could fight against that sort of thing... Hmmm...</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: How to recover from accepting low pay (UK)? - <AUTHOR> I'm in the position where I have accepted a low paying job offer straight out of University as a  Software Engineer. I should have negotiated but personal circumstances at the time lead me to accept the offer quick.
I enjoy my job, the workplace is good and my colleagues are great. Ideally would like to stay at the same workplace. There are good opportunities for advancement in the future and I'm learning more each day.
I've been given a substantial percentage pay rise today that still leaves me underpaid. I'm not sure where to go from here. <comment><USER2> Tell them. A good manager will appreciate your honesty; if they can't afford to pay you more right now for whatever reason then at least it's an opportunity to discuss it and you can decide what to do from there. But if they can afford it and don't want to lose you, then you'll get a pay rise. #win.

</comment><comment><USER3> I'd say if asking for a pay rise doesn't pay off hang in there until you have around 6 months+ under your belt then move on. An alternative can also be to keep looking, you can still leave on very short notice in your probation period.</comment>


How Twitter Became Home to the Teen Status Update - <AUTHOR> https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/07/how-twitter-became-home-to-the-teen-status-update/564404/?single_page=true <comment><USER2> This article feels out of touch, as if it was written 7 years ago. I even looked for a published date to verify, but to my surprise, it was published this month! Instagram and snapchat have already dethroned Twiter for the de- facto social platforms of teens. Twitter continues to be a thriving community of activists (on either side of the spectrum) and media types.

Edit: I also recognize that my comment may also already be out of date, with a new platform having dethroned insta/snap.

<comment><USER3> I've heard quite a lot about musical.ly lately, I wonder if that's the next cool thing among soon-to-be teens.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> My favorite thing about human interest articles like this is that they only exist because journalists spend so much time on Twitter. The whole take is a meta commentary on communications bubbles without realizing it.

<comment><USER5> Right; there's an implicit assumption that their (the journalist's) bubble is my bubble, and that what they're observing is interesting in some way.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Maybe I misread the article, but I only see tweets commenting on (read: making fun of) local Twitter. I don't actually see any examples of it besides two or three quotes from people who are allegedly "on local Twitter." And there's no indication of the size of this audience, or that it's larger than a similar audience on Facebook or Instagram, which I'd imagine to be more popular.

What an odd article.</comment>


Ask HN: What blocks you when learning a new language or framework - <AUTHOR> I'd like to ask you what are the challenges you face when learning a new language or framework. Is it time, learning material or something else? <comment><USER2> poor documentation and insufficient examples</comment>


Shodan: The World's Most Dangerous Search Engine - <AUTHOR> http://www.mikecarthy.com/offensive-security/shodan-worlds-dangerous-search-engine/ <comment><USER2> As soon as that subscribe overlay goes up I close the browser tab, every time.</comment>


Joel: How Hard Could It Be?: Lessons I Learned in the Army - <AUTHOR> http://www.inc.com/magazine/20080301/how-hard-could-it-be-lessons-i-learned-in-the-army.html?partner=fogcreek <comment><USER2> Great read. When managers lose touch with workers, morale suffers.

I would even take it a step further. When managers lose touch with workers, they lose touch with HOW the business operates. They know the WHAT, but not the HOW. I see it over and over. Maybe they forgot how to do it, maybe things have changed, maybe they never even knew. But as soon as a manager tells you HOW to do something and you know he's wrong, time to plan your next move. It's inevitable.

<comment><USER3> I agree that managers need to stay in touch with workers and the nuts-and- bolts of the business, but I disagreed with some of the examples he used in the article. There is no evidence that the brigadier or the CEO failed because of a quip about sleeping in a limo or picking up the phone at the pool.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> As an independently wealthy individual, due to family inheritance and MS stock options, even before starting Fog Creek, I don't think Joel is in much of a position of authority to discuss the average corporate employee's economic perspective.

This article would be far more credible were he not posting on his $10k Sonus home audio system and written by someone who had overcome real economic hardships in life. Fog Creek's first offices were in his grandmother's New York brownstone. Most start-ups in New York can barely afford a closet-sized office.

<comment><USER5> I find it amazing that he still takes the subway, apparently.

<comment><USER6> Why? In New York, and most livable cities it's often the best way to get around... faster, no parking hassles, no traffic, etc etc.

<comment><USER5> I thought the rich investment banker people had cars. Like, I read an article about a new BMW dealership strategically placed near Wall Street.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Excellent piece. He could not be more right.

I think there is more in that story than was argued. The equity structure in startups, in my opinion, could see a change similar to what is happening to venture financing.

Here is the current problem: if you hire an employee, and give him .1% of the company, what happens if that employee's actions significantly increase the value of the company? Maybe this person makes a key innovation that pushes the product over the chasm. That .1% looks like an unfair reward. In general, the greater the contribution, the worse the equity allocation becomes.

My guess is that market forces will find a way to solve this problem. Companies that can give employees variable equity based on contribution will find it easier to attract top talent. Legally, I have no idea how this would work, but the market forces are there nonetheless.

<comment><USER8> Make them sub-contractors? (And if they do not like the risk you can offer to cap the down-side (as well as the up-side).)

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> A personal pet peeve: I can't stand it when the bosses bring outside people around, give them a tour, point at you, explain what you do, and never once mention 1) that there would be visitors, or 2) who the heck they are. It's degrading.

</comment><comment><USER10> How hard can it be? Surprisingly not that much. My time in the Marine Corps was similar. Training-wise it's all pre-planned by officers for staff NCOs to execute but when push comes to shove all that gets thrown out of the window at a minute's notice. Because of the escalation of the war in Iraq our training schedule was "lost" and we began an accelerated infantry course whereby all weekends were taken out, humps amped up, and classes extended.

What's always been amazing to me has been the ability for people to adapt. The weak ones weeded out from boot camp end up in infantry training capable of handling quite a lot of stress and workload. You'll _feel_ tired but when the entire platoon has been asked to practice drills for another hour you simply push through and do it.

When boots are on the ground, however, it's not so similar. There's so much downtime in between missions. And in time that's when accidents happen and people get careless. Maintaining discipline and order has paramount and that's when the hours and days of reflex drilling snap to and you stay alive for yet another day.

</comment><comment><USER11> I think the important lesson here is the sense of ownership, whether emotional (passionate) and/or financial (founder), that someone who works at a (usually startup) company feels. If you're not invested in something, what do you care about making things better or the symbolic act of saving some of the startup funds by traveling on the cheap?

</comment><comment><USER12> What is the legal status of serving in a foreign army?

At any rate, if you read accounts of the various wars Israel has been in, one of the deciding factors has always been the sloppy preparation on the Arabs' side.

<comment><USER13> Outside of taking up arms against the United States, you can pretty much do whatever you please.

[http://www.uscitizenship.info/en_US/faq/citizenship/ans/g60....](http://www.uscitizenship.info/en_US/faq/citizenship/ans/g60.jsp)

<comment><USER12> People are focusing on citizenship, which is not the issue. The Selective Service board may have something to say on the matter, for instance.</comment></comment></comment>


Dinosaur find: Velociraptor ancestor was 'winged dragon' - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-33510288 <comment><USER2> In ~2005, any scientist that had proposed this was silenced and not taken seriously because it went against the mainstream science community. This sounds very similar to things happening now.</comment>


Ask HN: Got my Peek today, any one got theirs? - <AUTHOR>

Hi,<p>Today i got my peek delivered, looks nice small model (http://www.amazon.com/Peek-Pronto-Mobile-Messaging-Device/dp/B001VN2KBM). I switched it on and it was asking for activation. Not sure how to. Any one got theirs and able to start hacking with it, please provide more details here. <comment><AUTHOR> more detail can be found here: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3544237> and <http://peekhack.posterous.com/>

</comment><comment><USER2> what is this peek you speak of?

How much does it cost/month and can I hack it?

<comment><USER3> They are leftover old blackberryesque hardware that Peek is giving away for free in the hopes that someone will be able to hack them into something useful.

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3544237></comment></comment>


Show HN: An audio only social network - <AUTHOR> http://currentlyapp.io/ <comment><USER2> Couple things:

1\. The sexual abuse story is unrelated to your app and feels like you're trying to guilt the customer into using it. The best way to support victims would be to donate directly to the NGO not use your app, and therefore this story seems like a disingenuous marketing strategy.

2\. The problem with audio only social network is there's no way to "skim" things. There's no guarantee that the audio story a user clicks on will be interesting, and by the time the user figures out its not, you've just wasted 60s of his life and he's angry and wants to delete your app.

<comment><AUTHOR> So for #2, I think that this is where you need to be selective on who you follow. It won't be a Facebook where you have hundreds of people. Rather more like 15 or 20 people you really care about and like their stories. I think that's the niche that an audio only social network could fill.

<comment><USER3> So... podcasting but with shittier content?

<comment><USER4> In the same way that Tumblr is like blogging but with shittier content, or YouTube is like cinema production but with shittier content

<comment><AUTHOR> I just started clapping when I read this. Thank you ovibos for a good Tuesday night chuckle. :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Man, while I admire your story, this is not how you advertise your app.

"I'm building this because I want to fight sex trafficking"?? It just confuses potential users what the hell this app is for. I actually read the whole story, it's a good story, but in the end i was left puzzled (Is this app for reporting sex traffickers to the authorities in audio messages?) AND kind of annoyed that I spent the time reading the whole thing thinking that it would describe what the app is for.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for this feedback. I'll switch which of the 2 stories shows up at the front (as opposed to which one you must click on in order to read).

Sorry for the unnecessary frustration!

<comment><USER6> > I'll switch which of the 2 stories shows up at the front

Good call. Maybe back off a little more than that, even. So I'm reading your page and liking what I see. I would like to know more. Here's a thing that might have more information, so I click it. Now I'm reading a surprisingly affecting comic about a kid who's been sexually abused and the fight against sex slavery. My mental and emotional associations with your brand are suddenly a great deal more complex, and quite a bit darker, than they were. Your app suddenly has a steeper hill to climb toward making me happy enough to feel that using it is worth my while. If it fails to do so, and I don't use it, your efforts toward your honorable cause are impaired thereby. Is telling me about it really as important as maybe getting me to contribute to it in a material way?

Don't get me wrong. I like why you're doing what you're doing. But maybe "not what you want to lead with" understates the case on that one just a hair, is what I'm trying to get across here.

<comment><AUTHOR> may I ask if others feel this way? My sharing this is because I think it's an important part of the story and why we created Currently, but I don't want it to have a "dark aura" around the app by any means.

Does anyone else agree with the above sentiment?

<comment><USER7> Honestly, it was a bit jarring to read a comic portraying you as some kind of 'anti-rape hero' at the bottom of a page about a weird app.

You didn't even tell us what happened to your friend! It seemed like you were just using her story to aggrandize yourself. What happened to her? How would she feel if she read this comic? Is she getting a slice of this pie too?

It just seemed kind of exploitative and in comic form...

<comment><USER5> It's also a very weird narrative.

If he is really so passionate about fighting sex trafficking, he should be building something that solves that problem, not just another social networking app and using that story to get attention.

I finished reading the cartoon and was like "wtf did i just read?" It felt like one of those viagra ad spam schemes you find in various comment sections on the internet where the commenter starts out writing something that sounds very relevant to the story, and in the end somehow segues the narrative into "buy viagra and cialis here [https://blahblah"](https://blahblah")

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Here in germany I have never seen anyone using the audio feature of their instant messenger until I moved to Berlin. I now see people in the subway using WhatsApp to just send voice messages back and fourth, all the time. So as a vim-user-kind-of-guy, I don't get it - but there seems to be a demand for this kind of communication. Oh, right - and there is snapchat. Also don't get it. Maybe I'm just getting old...

<comment><USER9> As a counterpoint of sorts: I have no idea how hard it is to type stuff in Asian languages but voice chat messages seem to be very popular in many parts of Asia (specifically China with WeChat).

<comment><USER10> Voice messages are massive everywhere in Asia though, even in places where they mostly use latin alphabets or English like Malaysia, Singapore, Philippines ...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> What? You built an app so you could 'rescue' people from prostitution because your friend was sexually abused at home? I don't see the connection.

If you want to help prostitutes then listen to them, and support decriminalisation, not 'rescue'.

What you do with any profits are not my business, but this is a real turn off. Just leave it out.

</comment><comment><USER12> Not to be a jerk, but as a video guy, this promo video needs some work.

1\. The Premiere Pro "Morph Cut" doesn't really work that well and can easily be spotted. See :38 for an example.

Morph Cut Overview: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOvDwiE0qSo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOvDwiE0qSo)

2\. The tracking/compositing of the app on the phone screen is very crude. :59

3\. The audio needs a lot of work. I'm on a laptop with no headphones, and I hear the bad ADR work. "Your stories" at 1:28 stands out the most.

<comment><USER13> On a related note I was expecting to see you guys using the app in the video, it would be nice to see examples of real life use of it, Im not totally sure how/if I would use it

<comment><AUTHOR> Would you prefer this video instead? It's more serious which is why I didn't use it.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91mt9ZRLGpI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91mt9ZRLGpI)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Built something very similar for the web using widgets back in 2006-7, along the time twitter was taking off. iPhones were just coming on the scene and there was no app ecosystem yet so we built one of the most advanced flash widgets ever. It worked amazingly well, but we just couldn't get the traction needed at the time. Overall, i think the timing was off. I've seen many similar ideas over the years ,but yours is the closest to our original. I have years of thinking about this type of service under my belt so if you want to chat about some of the ideas we implemented beyond what you have now, let me know.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'd absolutely love to! email@example.com is my email. I appreciate the offer

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> This is awesome. Although the Android app has some rough edges it gives off a very personal and connecting vibe. I think the shades of blue and green you chose feel too cold for what the platform is supposed to be, the app feels very cold initially... but then this amazing thing happened: I started to listen to the Ocean. The Ocean to me feels like something from the movie "Her" (2013): these are other peoples stories and lives I'm listening to, and that is both really odd and really cool. It feels very personal, and I think this might be exactly what many people are missing nowadays: just taking 5 minutes out of your day to empathize with others, and since it's audio only you could do that while in the car, or while working, or while cleaning your house. I haven't yet tried this with family or close friends, and I think it might feel too personal at that point. Then again, I'm not that socially capable, so that might be just me. Perhaps it takes some getting used to.

As I said before though, there are some rough edges. The written text in the app feels... unprofessional, which might not be a bad thing necessarily. I think you tried to find a light tone to connect with users, but you haven't yet succeeded in striking that light hearted balance between connecting with your users and talking with the confidence of a business. The colors look somewhat cold for what feels like a very warm app. And on the tech-side there could be some improvements, like detecting 'empty' waves: apparently people happen to accidently send out a wave without any meaningful sound whatsoever into the world, and I imagine detecting that is something that could be done automatically. By the way, sound quality is okay, but make sure you don't neglect it. This idea will only work if you forget that you're listening through a device, if it's anything like a phone call I think that might be to robotic.

Something I just thought of: how do you plan to tackle the language barrier? Is the Ocean going to consist of English-only spoken text, or are you going to tag waves with a language and filter based on what the user is using?

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks so much for the feedback. I'm asking the developers about automatically removing blank waves. That seems like a big win. Otherwise we might have to have it as an option under "report" and rely on the community (at least initially) to mark a blank wave as blank.

As for the language barrier. Yes, we're going to be english only to begin with, then I think we'll make versions for other languages.

I'm trying to think of the best way to simply message this right now. Let me know if you have any great ideas.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> This seems like a much saner social network.

Also, the comics at the end of the page are great, the drawings, the narrative, everything.

<comment><AUTHOR> thank you :) those were very difficult to get created.

<comment><USER16> Oh, it wasn't you?

<comment><AUTHOR> Thoughts, mapping, idea, verbiage: all me

Actual design work: no way in heck I could ever make something that looks that good ;)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> watching that promo video the value proposition is you get to hear about all the dick moves your friends are pulling on each other.

edit- read the comic, I'm even more confused.

<comment><USER18> Well, there's one comic that is his motivations for building the app, which while admirable, but I'm not sure if appealing to my pathos makes me want to use the app any more than I would have otherwise. The other comic is better directed at why I/you might want to use it.

<comment><AUTHOR> So in your opinion, I should make the "What is Currently" the front one, and the "Why I Built It" one as the background/secondary?

Does anyone else have thoughts on this?

<comment><USER19> Nah it has flair. I find it charming, and the comic about sexual trafficking really got me. Keep it up!

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm thinking I'm going to change it, because some others have pointed out that, if you come at the comic thinking you're going to get the reason behind the app itself, it's misleading. But I'll keep it as the secondary one you can click on :)

Thanks for the great feedback guys! You all rock! As I've said before, tshirts all around! (to those who want them and use the app) ;)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> It's called Ham Radio. ;)

<comment><USER21> When my Ham buddy passed away two years ago, I was unable to hear our local club's last call discussion for him. I wasn't able to get to a radio at the time. I wish someone had been willing to step up with some technology and at the very least, record it.

Point being, sometimes more modern technology can be better than the old stuff. If he had instead had social circles interested in a more modern platform, then maybe I could have been a part of it. I'm all for people like the OP here trying to innovate in the audio space. I think the medium has a lot to offer.

<comment><USER22> You could have used AllStar Link or EchoLink to connect to your club's net via the internet or mobile device.

Also, many clubs record their nets and post the archives online. (Mine does.)

[1] [https://www.allstarlink.org/](https://www.allstarlink.org/) [2] [http://echolink.org/](http://echolink.org/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Remember when people used to visit the people they care to listen to, and would actually sit down, and physically listen to them? But now our lives are too busy and filled with non-stop schedules so we just don't have time anymore. And even if we did have time, we'd feel like we were wasting time. We're missing something vital in life with all this technology running it for us. I think this app is inspired by the developers realizing we need that basic human need, but without fully realizing what it is. So they came up with a way to sort of do the exact same thing, but asynchronously, and as a social media app.

<comment><USER24> Many of the people I care to listen to live far enough away from me that to 'actually sit down, and physically listen to them' is a multi-day endeavor.

<comment><AUTHOR> exactly. This isn't to replace real friendships / community, but to help you stay connected with those you can't speak with / visit regularly

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Reminds me of a very cool paper I heard about at ACM Dev 2014.

"A Mobile Application for Interactive Voice Forums:Design and Pilot Deployment in Rural India"

[http://research.microsoft.com/en- us/um/people/thies/dev14-cg...](http://research.microsoft.com/en- us/um/people/thies/dev14-cgnet-app.pdf)

Researchers built a landline/cellphone based social network. It could be especially useful for rural areas with low literacy rate.

</comment><comment><USER26> The idea of an audio-only social network got me clicking. I was imagining something music-based. But, IMHO, having read about it on your site, I am much less interested.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, we're going after the "stories" angle right now, but if we ever pivot I'll let you know ;)

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> Maybe I'm wrong, these are just my observations:

1\. Millennials prefer text to voice. My millennial friends don't answer phone calls, but promptly reply to texts 2\. Voice is an older generation mainstay. But their affinity to social networks is low.

In my estimate, the target audience is rather small in ℅. However, since the planet has 2B smartphone users, there might be a play.

<comment><USER28> I think #1 can easily be fixed with automated transcription on all audio messages.

<comment><USER29> If you're just going to transcribe it, why not just use Siri/etc in the first place?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> This is something I would definitely be interested in, but like some others I am instinctively put off by the back story. There is no doubt it is an important story, but its role here, especially on a product homepage, feels very ambiguous. If this was a blog post somewhere else talking about your motivation then sure but here it definitely feels like marketing.

</comment><comment><USER31> There used to be a social network called Audioboo that did just this. It was really cool, and in the early days of smartphones it was really novel to hear from people.

Now it's just a podcasting platform, but I'll definitely be trying this out because I miss the old days...

EDIT: The 'boos' are still online, you just need to know the URLs [http://boos.audioboo.fm/attachments/1543/Recording.mp3](http://boos.audioboo.fm/attachments/1543/Recording.mp3)

</comment><comment><USER32> I had finally listened to my last voice mail some time ago. What's old is new again.

</comment><comment><USER33> I was immediately reminded of the fiction podcast LifeAfter (or lif-e.af/ter as they like to style it, making it hard to search for). An audio-only social network is a major plot device, though obviously slightly contrived to give them an excuse for most of the action to happen verbally to make a good podcast. [https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/lifeafter/id1045990056?m...](https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/lifeafter/id1045990056?mt=2) Even your marketing is similar to that in the show.

</comment><comment><USER34> problem.. most people aren't good story tellers.. people are ok decent of at least taking pictures of something to create a story without words.. hence snapchat and instagram stories.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, I've thought about that. But I'm hoping on two things. First, that if you are just sharing it across friends, it doesn't matter the "skill level" of the sharer. Second, that there will be enough value even if you're just a listener, getting to listen to a personal podcast of your friends' stories. But this hinges on there being enough sharers in the first place, not all just listeners.

I appreciate the thought here!

</comment></comment><comment> gm-conspiracy Could this be further segmented into types of audio?

For instance, have a social network specifically for user-generated/recorded farts?

Rank them in multiple dimensions (geolocation, time, genre)?

Thoughts?

<comment><AUTHOR> I've thought about a tagging system for topic, but to begin we're trying to keep everything as streamlined as possible (shortest amount of time between creating the story and having it out there).

<comment> gm-conspiracy Ah, I see.

I was thinking more along the lines of re-branding the same app multiple times for different genres.

I like the tag concept.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> This is one of the best app landing pages I've seen in a long time. Though I have to admit I haven't even watched the video at the top, the rest of the page gets straight to the point clearly explaining and demonstrating the app, and the comics at the end are wonderful.

Also, I can't believe I haven't seen this social network idea executed before. Seems at least like one worth exploring.

<comment><USER36> Well, WeChat supported group chat with Audio over a decade ago. It wasn't exactly a "follow" model but you could be apart of multiple groups with varying members and post audio messages, GPS coordinates (eg when meeting up), text, video, etc.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> I've wanted to build something like this for a while, down to the 1-minute length restriction and follow/reply interaction. (And to go with it, a small low-power smartphone without a screen!) The main thing that stopped me was that I was working at Facebook when I came up with it.

However, I probably won't be using this for one reason: waves are ephemeral, deleted from their servers after a week.

<comment><AUTHOR> May I ask why having the waves deleted after a week is such a disappointment to you? (And if anyone else thinks the same?) I'd love to know your thoughts / reasonings behind this statement.

<comment><USER38> I screenshot and save just about every Snapchat between my girlfriend and I. A lot of them are great pictures of our dogs, memories from vacations, a lot of junk but sentimental junk. At least have a feature to save your own waves, then maybe something enabled to allow your friends to save your waves. Maybe your friend tells a great story, you save it, they pass away, what a great memory to have of someone.

Edit: Just downloaded it and see that you can save waves. Nice.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, right now you can save a wave and it'll stay for I think 6 months, but I'm talking to my devs to see if we can get it to save to the users phone for the long term (not limited). We'll see what happens with that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> The landing page is really great, and the effort shows, the concept will also work for a number of people.

However, this is not for me as I find audio intrusive, where I would either annoy people around me to record/listen to something, or fetch earphones every time.

Even if it is not for me, I'm sure that there are a lot of people who would enjoy this and put it to good use. Good luck!

<comment><AUTHOR> I greatly appreciate it! If you know anyone specific who would enjoy it, please feel free to send them to us ;)

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> Sounds nice - hope I don't get stuck in a recording loop to get it just right - like the perfect answering machine message

<comment><AUTHOR> As of now (maybe in 2.0) we actually don't have a way for you to listen to your wave before you submit it in order to fight this "perfection anxiety". We want to try to be organic in this hyper filtered / photoshopped world as possible. It bothers some people but seems to be freeing to others :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> Next to the comments made by other users, it seems like the app just uploaded my address book without explicitly asking me. This was a really scary situation and resulted in an instant uninstall to hopefully stop it from uploading.

Not the way to handle this.

<comment><AUTHOR> Were you on android or iOS, I was pretty sure it requested access for both, but I'll look into it for sure!

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> Reminds me of party lines and voice bulletin boards, perhaps created without awareness of them?

<comment><AUTHOR> I haven't heard of these, (so you're right, created without awareness of them ;)

Could you send over some links so I could get further ideas and have a better understanding of the competitive landscape?

Thanks!

<comment><USER42> At this point, they're historical rather than part of the current competitive landscape, but in their time they were vibrant communities. Studying them is useful much as studying IRC would be useful for someone creating something like Slack.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> Dude, remove the rape shit from the web site for a mobile app. Why you would think putting that stuff up there was a good idea is beyond me.

I am guessing you put a lot of effort into that comic and feel bad discarding it, but just do it. Sunk cost.

</comment><comment><USER44> After discovering Discord and having a large group of Facebook friends who are on the other side of the country or out of the country, I'm intrigued... but that could just be the intriginol I took this morning.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'd love for you to try it out and let me know how it goes. My personal email is firstname.lastname@example.com

</comment></comment><comment><USER45> Hey, Just trying out your app, is there a place you would prefer your feedback and bug reports or would you prefer to still use the email mentioned in the play store?

<comment><AUTHOR> please use the email mentioned in the play store, or send them to me directly at firstname.lastname@example.com

</comment></comment><comment><USER46> I watched the video. Are they selling waterproof phones ?

</comment><comment><USER47> Who do I hand this $40 to save someone from their pimp?

<comment><AUTHOR> I've never found the source of that statistic, but a non-profit I work closely with is called The Exodus Road. Through them it takes $3000 to fund the investigative work leading up to a brothel raid. They then estimate that for every pimp they take down from that raid (they often take down multiples as well as saving young girls), they save 200 girls into the future. So doing that math it comes out to $15 per girl saved from entering the industry by taking down a pimp.

Figures change as do metrics. But I think at the time that figure might have come from IJM (International Justice Mission), but I can't be certain.

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> Quite similar to [http://ense.nyc/](http://ense.nyc/) from Venmo founder Iqram Magdon-Ismail ...

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for this! I'll definitely check it out! Are there any features that ense.nyc has that you wish we had?

</comment></comment><comment><USER49> I was hoping that the interface would be audio as well

<comment><AUTHOR> Unfortunately not, but we're working very hard right now so that iOS's voice over works flawlessly throughout the app. That way the blind and visually impaired community can use it as well.

</comment></comment><comment><USER50> Also, before I could even listen to one story your app tried to force me to watch a 20 second ad. Needless to say it is now uninstalled.

<comment><AUTHOR> Weird, that shouldn't have happened. You're not supposed to get any ads until you've listened to at least X amount of waves. May I ask what platform you were on?

</comment></comment><comment><USER51> Add Instagram-style fancy audio filters and it might take off. But beware, the new ICQ is already doing this and much more.

</comment><comment><USER52> Wow. That's a genuinely neat idea. Not sure about the delivery because I don't have an IOS device anymore.

<comment><AUTHOR> we're hoping to do a web-based version. Would this work for you?

<comment><USER52> I would be interested in giving it a try, sure. Are you going to have a pseudonym policy or is it real name only?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> Very cool! Reminds me of Voxer

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! Appreciate it!

</comment></comment><comment><USER54> There was another app launched in India with a lot of fanfare 2-3 years ago ([http://bubbly.net/](http://bubbly.net/)). Though I have never received an invite from a friend or someone on it. (Just sharing)

</comment><comment><USER55> Is there a web-based version too? Or is it Android and iOS app only?

<comment><AUTHOR> At this point only Android and iOS app only.

Is there a reason you need web-based?

<comment><USER55> I would rather use the device I've assembled from my choice an almost infinite combination of parts, permanently hooked up to a hifi-grade 5.1 system with a subwoofer that's bigger than my head, and a boom mic and pop filter.

As opposed to a device picked in no small part (excuse the pun) because it's small enough to fit in my small hands. It has a speaker the size of my fingernail and a microphone that's even smaller again.

I use my phone when I can't use my laptop or workstation. It's a compromise device, and while I love and heavily use my phone, it's not a replacement.

Everything on my PC is better than on my phone. The screen, the input devices, the audio input, the audio output.

Plus a decent web client is always going to be more portable and will let you catch people on whatever device they want to use. You can get it on Windows phones and tablets, Linux devices, PCs, Macs and consoles.

A web-based version may also enable me to hack in a convenient workflow. Heck, I'd be tempted to hook it up so I could use it while stuck in traffic. And maybe if I get addicted to the platform even add a Twilio number so I can use it if I'm stuck without mobile data somewhere. Not a proper substitute for an API, but good enough in the beginning.

<comment><AUTHOR> That was an amazing response. You've put me over the edge, i'm getting on this right now :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER56> Sounds like VoiceTree from LifeAfter (a fiction story podcast).

</comment><comment><USER57> Looks interesting. Have you gotten this submitted to Product Hunt?

<comment><AUTHOR> I haven't yet. It's on the to-do list though. I might try to do it tonight.

</comment></comment><comment><USER58> I would use this, if it was available on Windows Phones.

</comment><comment><USER59> How do you make money/finance this app?

<comment><AUTHOR> It will be an advertising based revenue model.

<comment><USER60> Just a side remark: there are a lot of boring jobs where looking at the screen isn't allowed, but voice communications is possible(and maybe using earphone buttons).

For them a voice-based social network sounds like a great idea.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER61> Very cool! Super stoked about this.

<comment><AUTHOR> Austin, if you (or anyone else on here) sign up and send me your tshirt size and address (firstname.lastname@example.com) I'd love to send you some swag for checking us out and repping the product. :) (oh and these are nice Tee's, not Gildan ;)

</comment></comment><comment><USER62> Have you checked out sparemin.com?

<comment><AUTHOR> I haven't. I'll look into it!

Is there anything specific they do that you wish we did?

</comment></comment><comment><USER63> this is SO AWESOME. can't wait to use it!! incredible story behind it too.

</comment><comment><USER64> Irony in an audio-only app using a full-size video hero on their website.

</comment><comment><USER65> Anchor?

<comment><AUTHOR> Can I just say, when I found Anchor on ProductHunt I nearly died. Their theme and even some verbiage was the same.

But in reality they're going after more of the podcast audience / angle. I'm trying to position currently as between friends with stories as the backbone.

I think Anchor is awesome and fully support them, but I think there are a lot of key decisions that have and will continue to be made that will push us further and further apart :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER66> This is a cool idea. I see people on youtube recording themselves painfully while driving and stuff, and the entire video is just them in the front seat driving. With this, you can rant while doing activities that require your entire visual field (washing dishes, laundry, errands, etc.)

Edit: hellban, post invisible. (content good). classify bad content vs. good content, hellban bad content specifically. possible improvement to an umbrella hellban</comment>


Bitbucket experiencing major outage for repositories connecting via SSH - <AUTHOR> https://status.bitbucket.org/ <comment><AUTHOR> [https://twitter.com/BitbucketStatus/status/78802476201441280...](https://twitter.com/BitbucketStatus/status/788024762014412804) They've posted on their Twitter account with essentially the same content as well.

It's been down for almost 40 minutes for us, completely blocking a scheduled release. Didn't realise until now how much of a dependency Bitbucket was to us - definitely lessons to be learned here.

</comment><comment><USER2> Note - HTTPS git methods still work; it's git over SSH that's having a problem. You can switch a repo like this: [https://help.github.com/articles/changing-a-remote-s- url/](https://help.github.com/articles/changing-a-remote-s-url/)

<comment><AUTHOR> As far as I know, people using bitbucket's 2-factor authentication are unable to connect to their repositories using HTTPS, is this still true?

<comment><USER3> You can set up an application-specific password and limit its scope: [https://blog.bitbucket.org/2016/06/06/app-passwords- bitbucke...](https://blog.bitbucket.org/2016/06/06/app-passwords-bitbucket- cloud/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> As someone who is effected by this:

Are there any good ways to push/pull from multiple upstreams for whole teams? That also works with your whole CI workflow?

So that you for example can have copies of the repository available on both Bitbucket, GitHub, and GitLab at the same time.

<comment><USER5> You could set up some "failover" upstreams that are mirrored using git's post- receive hooks. Or, you could define a particular git remote to have multiple URL's.

This post explains in greater detail:

[http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6882017/git-hook-post- rec...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6882017/git-hook-post-receive-and- remote-repository-git-pull)</comment></comment>


The Deadliest Jobs in America - <AUTHOR> http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-dangerous-jobs/

<comment><USER2> This is a very good presentation of data.

Many people say that police officer is not that dangerous of a job (12th over all), but if you look at only deaths caused by violence, they are the second most dangerous job. I personally would not really want to be a police officer in the US patrolling the dangerous neighbourhoods.</comment>


Reasons Not to Start a Company - <AUTHOR> http://bostinno.com/all-series/so-you-want-to-be-a-founder-3-reasons-not-to-start-a-company/

<comment><USER2> Spammer Detected: <http://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=dmcgregor></comment>


Tesla Is Snatching Apple's Stars to Make Itself the New Apple - <AUTHOR> https://www.wired.com/2017/01/tesla-snatching-apples-stars-make-new-apple/ <comment><USER2> Didn't Elon previously say people they reject go to apple?</comment>


EA Open Source - <AUTHOR> http://gpl.ea.com/ <comment><USER2> Before anybody gets excited, it's just a lousy collection of WebKit forks with some custom additions.

It's also been up since 2009, seemingly.

</comment><comment><USER3> Nothing terribly interesting here, just their internal forks of WebKit and Qt. They're clearly only publishing these to satisfy licenses (both those projects are LGPL).

I love the idea of open-source games, but EA is probably the last company I expect would ever jump on such a movement.</comment>


Hackers in Orange County - <AUTHOR> Is there a hacker community in Orange County? Particularly around the Tustin area would be nice :) <comment><USER2> if you know perl, [http://oc.pm.org/](http://oc.pm.org/)

There were a lot of Meetup,although not as much as Bay Area.

I used to be there, and now in Bay Area, really miss OC.</comment>


Is it ethical to keep a copy of the code or designs you did for your employer, for your reference? - <AUTHOR>

Please comment on the two:
A) Extreme case:
[deleted]
B) Normal Case:
You keep a copy of your work and designs so you can reuse the ideas and perhaps even snippets of code. It is also a record of your work. This is for 'normal' work that took lots of thought and effort, not patented stuff.
 Qs: How many of you regularly do B? Please also comment on A <comment><USER3> OK, I was contracting in my previous life so I've seen these issues pop up many times before. Here's few words.

A) is illegal. You have no ownership of ANY code or IP that you work on at the company that employs you. That's what they're paying you for, after all.

B) is also illegal. Unless the company in question has open sourced their code and allows anyone to use it under some kind of a BSD-like license, you have absolutely no right to use that code or IP.

Not only are both of these cases illegal, they're also highly unethical. Also, if you're forming a company around someone else's IP, you're gonna crash and burn.

When I worked as a contractor, I would use my own libraries to save me some time but before I used them, I notified the management that I was using them and told them that I own the code and that I give them full right to use it without any licensing fees and I also told them I would use them on my other contracting jobs. They always accepted these stipulations an I've never had any problems. They loved the fact that I was not wasting my time and their money re-implementing the wheel and that I was solving their problems in record time. The key is to be open and put it all on the table before you start working.

Also, after I'd finish working on a project and if I was using my own computer, I'd wipe my computer clean of all of their code. I would do that on the last day of my job and I ALWAYS made sure that someone from the management was there to witness it. Sure, that might be going overboard but trust me... it's worth it. It shows them that you care about these sorts of things and it also makes sure that they won't have a strong case if they ever decide to sue you down the road because you end up inventing something amazing that's in their marketspace or you end up working for competition.

<comment><USER4> You are totally wrong. In a contracting situation, the CONTRACTOR owns all the code he or she produces unless the contract specifically states otherwise.

<comment><USER5> The contract almost always states otherwise though. Unless maybe you're working in an area where the companies doesn't care about their IP or are just simply ignorant.

<comment><USER4> I've worked on over 20 software contracts and never once did the contract contain a clause that forced me to assign copyright agreement to the person paying for the software. Note that this only applies to contractors, not exempt employees.

[http://www.developerdotstar.com/mag/articles/daniels_softwar...](http://www.developerdotstar.com/mag/articles/daniels_softwarecopyright.html)

<comment><USER6> Interesting...at the places I've worked (as an employee), it was considered a dealbreaker if a contractor wanted to own the source code they produced. We passed up some really, really good contractors because they wanted to own the product.

<comment><AUTHOR> please also comment on A) since the person is likely to become an investor in my product in the near term.

<comment><USER6> I'm not actually commenting on either A) or B), just on menloparkbum's comment that it's common for contractors to retain ownership.

I don't really want to get into the ethics of it, because I don't think ethical debates are particularly fruitful. (I took a course in meta-ethics in college, which makes me particularly suspicious in attempts to ground ethical judgments in factual statements or logical debate.) I'll tell you that _I_ wouldn't do it; it sounds dodgy enough that I wouldn't really want to get involved with it. Ultimately, most ethical judgments come down to gut feelings about right or wrong.

I will say that right or wrong, I think it's _stupid_. You're opening yourself up to big legal liability. If acquirers or investors find out about it (and they will - that's what due diligence is for), they _will_ nix the deal. Heck, I'm spending about $1K to have a lawyer draw up a release to make sure all IP I developed for my startup while employed belongs to me, and I _didn't_ take any source code from my employer (I'm using a completely different technology platform and am in a completely different area of business.) It's just something I don't want to fuck around with.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> if the code is a crystallisation of their business idea then using it again is equivalent to re-using their business idea and i think that is highly un- ethical. if you are talking about reusing some CSS templates and changing the colors - meh. personally, i err on the side of caution and never take work with me from one company to another - often i can condense 6 months of learn- by-doing into a couple of weeks of do-over since it is the overall direction and knowing what is definitely wrong that saves time. /note: i'm a scientist not a programmer but i think the same situations apply

</comment><comment><USER4> It may or may not be illegal or ethical, but it is rarely useful. I used to keep most of the code I've written for employers over the years, but I never once looked at it.

<comment><USER8> Same here. My feeling is that being ethically compelled to re-implement something you've done before is a blessing in disguise.

<comment><AUTHOR> please also comment on A) since the person is likely to become an investor in my product in the near term.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> What agreements have been made with the employer? Hire an intellectual property lawyer to read and discuss the implications of any written contracts and agreements made with the employer.

<comment><AUTHOR> its not about legalities.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Perhaps you can use your ideas but certainly not your code.

I managed to open-source some parts of my code (basically some generic libraries) under a very liberal license and to reuse it in other companies. Not without agreement with the employers, of course.

</comment><comment><USER11> well it is certainly illegal ... ethics are fudged... using the source code or work derived from the code is certainly unethical (i think) because your code was paid by the employer..

but the actual idea? well where would you guys classify this? i think the actual idea unless protected by a patent is open.. also a lot of companies put a no-compete clause forbidding working for another company in the same domain ... (even though in some countries thats against the law)

<comment><USER11> regardign the "idea being protected by a patent", i meant if worded carefully with the necessary legal mumbo jumbo... (eg in australia, software patents are usually titled - a way using a COMPUTER to do steps explained in algorithm X)

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Both are unethical and NEVER acceptable. Run, don't walk, the other way from those who rationalize this behavior.

(Why is it that when it comes to ethics, what was once clear cut is now "fuzzy"?)

<comment><USER13> I commend you for your firm sense of ethics, but what exactly are you saying is unethical?

For example, once in a while I will come across a problem that I know I have solved before, so I will refer to code I had previously written for someone else to remind myself of how I first solved it. I don't see any ethical dilemma in this.

<comment><USER12> Let's see if I have this right. Someone paid you to provide them with something for competitive purposes (if it's business, why else?). Now you're using their IP to provide someone else (who may be their competitor) with something for competitive purposes. It's NOT up to you to determine who is competing with whom, how important someone's IP is to them. or whether or not "it's a big deal". I've seen multi-million dollar deals terminated and careers sidetracked when there was even a hint of impropriety in the air. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE how important most business people feel about this issue.

Of course, no one owns what's in your brain, but that's all you own. Move on.

<comment><USER13> Again, I respect your sense of ethics and I think the world would be a better place if everyone paid half as much attention to ethics as you do.

That said, I still think that there are occasions where referring to past code is entirely ethical.

Say for example I forgot the mod_rewrite flag to do what I need, but I used the same flag for a client in the past and I still have a copy on my server. Instead of Googling around for it, which might take a couple minutes, I could look at the copy from before in a matter of seconds. That is the kind of thing I would do, and I certainly am not violating anyone's IP or copying any code. Would you still say this is unethical?

<comment><USER12> I don't want to debate fine points of ethics (I know, too late), but I thought I'd share a little more background, and then shut up. OK?

Believe me, I'm not holier than thou - you should hear me in traffic. But I really think that this is a black and white issue. I don't see any difference between illegal downloading and walking out of Walgreen's with a CD in your pocket. Or putting that extra chicken leg from the buffet into your purse. "They'd just have to throw it away, anyway." I don't care. Right is right and wrong is wrong.

I don't ever want anyone to get the impression I'd employ situational ethics in business (or anywhere else, either). And I do not want to knowingly conduct business with anyone that does. It's simply not worth it, period.

I once had a partner that drew the ethical line where it was most convenient for him. First, he copied software from one account to another. Then, he went through a client's employee's drawers looking for something to "save us a lot of time". Before I realized it, he was making back door deals with clients and vendors because he "didn't think I'd mind; it was money I'd wouldn't have ever seen anyway."

I'm certainly not suggesting that everyone progresses down that path, or that reusing tidbits of code is the same as murder. It's just that when it's time to draw an ethical line in the sand, my position is clear and firm.

Just a few antecdotes to give you an idea of how strongly some business people feel about this issue:

\- An acquintance of mine was earning $150 per hour advising a Fortune 1000 company which multi-million dollar enterprise package to buy. As an aside, he brought in a buddy to sell printers to his client and split the profit. He was immediately fired and black-balled. The CEO's reasoning was, "I would have never known if we made the right decision."

\- A vendor was presenting their software package to my client. They said, "We already know your industry. In fact, we sold a system to XYZ Company." My client immediately dismissed the vendor. He later said, "That's all I need. For one of his programmers to accidently say what I'm doing to an XYZ employee over coffee."

\- My client went bankrupt. Their assets (including all IP) were acquired by a third party in the settlement. Imagine their surprise when they had to compete with my client's ex-employee who set himself up in a software maintenance business at 1/2 industry rates. How did he know who to call on and what software they had? The case is still in litigation, but that guy's name will forever be dirt in this town.

\- A contractor at one of my clients accidently left a thumb drive on a desk he was using. It had 70,000 social security numbers on it. What were they to think?

I could go on and on. They are some real slime balls out there. There are also plenty of good people who make stupid decisions to save a little time because "it doesn't make much difference anyway". How are people supposed to know the difference?

And when it comes to technology, many business people are doubly in the dark. Sometimes, TRUST is all they've got. It's so ridiculously easy for many of us to earn a nice living (try digging ditches instead), why would you ever jeapordize that over something so trivial?

<comment><USER13> I hope it doesn't feel like a debate, I am just trying to see your side of this because if I felt that what I was doing was unethical or even in a "grey area", I would not be doing it. The reason I keep coming back to this thread is not because I want to win an argument, but because I might be wrong.

I agree with you that drawing the ethical line wherever it is most convenient is bad. In fact, I have discussed or debated ethics online a few times in the past, and I was always in your position, saying that the issue is black and white no matter how convenient it would be otherwise. Perhaps this is why I am so interested in this thread, now that I am on the other end of it.

Anyway, thanks for your insight. Although I am still not convinced that anything I did was unethical, I will think twice before looking at past work again.

<comment><USER12> It hasn't felt like a debate. Just a real interesting topic. And, who knows, maybe we got one of those chicken leg buffet people to thinking here - <USER2> discussion may save someone a whole bunch of trouble years down the line.

Every once in a while, it's nice to say that which goes without saying.

<comment><AUTHOR> well :)

which is more unethical?

the restaurant throwing away perfectly good food into the trash when there are hungry people in poorer countries (or even a few blocks away in the same city) who haven't eaten chicken in months because they cant afford it? (I know people like that).

OR

the "chicken leg buffet" person. He paid full price for his buffet, only his stomach can contain 2 legs, and he does not wish to greedily stuff himself with 6 legs.

or what if he took 4 legs on his plate, and out of a good conscience, cannot throw 2 uneaten legs away?

point: it is hard to judge other people.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>