Kik Messenger App Debuts Own Digital Currency Amid Bitcoin Boom - <AUTHOR> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-25/kik-messenger-app-debuts-own-digital-currency-amid-bitcoin-boom <comment><USER2> Am I the only person who finds this kind of depressing and scary? I thought cryptocurrencies were supposed to be about democratization and decentralization. Now if you want to make money on Kik, you apparently are going to get paid in Kin, a currency Kik controls for which there is no standard conversion to USD. How is this different than getting paid in Walmart Dollars.

<comment><USER3> This _is_ democracy and decentralization -- allowing private entities to issue their own currencies. It is much better than the single monopoly of the government-issued money.

<comment><USER4> > allowing private entities to issue their own currencies. It is much better > than the single monopoly of the government-issued money.

Please elaborate on this.

Why is it better for the people to have dozens of currencies that they can only use for a very limited selection of stores and have to trade for other uses?

The only incentive for "private currencies", that I heard of, is to confuse customers and make them forget that they are, in fact, using real money and not only digital tokens.

<comment><USER5> > Why is it better for the people to have dozens of currencies that they can > only use for a very limited selection of stores and have to trade for other > uses?

It isn't necessarily better to have dozens of different currencies, but it is better to have the ability to issue your own currencies rather than be dependent upon a single monopoly which may (and does) abuse its power.

Second thing is, there is no real way to determine how many currencies/tokens are consumers ok with, other than to really try it out in the market. Let me use an example.

Today if you have Amazon prime TV, then they have a whole section subscriptions for channels where you can subscribe to Prime, Netflix, Hulu, Crackle, CBS, Showtime, Scifi, History Channel etc, services. Initially it started out with just Prime, Netflix, and Hulu, but now there are so many options, you can't just watch Homeland if you have these three subscriptions. The problem isn't just that you need to pay more, but rather that you have to subscribe to so many services.

This is too confusing, but this also means that this is a problem to be solved. In future (and I think some company has already started) to build a package subscription. Maybe another solution would be to have every show a pay-per-view basis (which Amazon already does).

The idea is, that the reason why different subscription services exists because of some other, unavoidable business reason. But this can be solved from the user experience point of view differently without resorting to a govt monopoly on entertainment.

Same thing goes with these cryptocurrencies. They exist for different, unavoidable business reason, but it is also annoying to have to deal with different currencies, so I believe in future there will be more basket of currencies solution (like ICONOMI) which allows people to hold 2-3 cryptos at max, and from their POV, the conversion and payment to the native currency happens seamlessly.

<comment><USER6> The problem is volatility. If the amount of people that are speculating >>>> than people willing to sell other things to buy "your coin" in a bad market. You could collapse the currency.

<comment><USER5> But that's the whole point. We have solved this problem for over 2000 years now using financial derivatives.

A farmer in ancient Rome did not want to undertake the volatility of grain prices when his crop eventually comes to the market, so what he did is sells his future crop to a fixed current price to someone who wants to undertake the risk of price fluctuations, and this way a speculator got the profit which came out of correctly predicting the future grain prices and farmer got a fixed predictable price.

Same goes with these currencies. A speculator might provide enough liquidity to your crypto, in return he gets a better deal for your coins.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> At what point does a premium virtual asset become a "currency"

For example, if Clash of Clans has gems that you purchase to purchase items and such inside the application, is that a currency?

'...sells tokens that can be used to buy services on its platform. The idea is that as more and more people use Kik, the value of those tokens, called "Kin", will rise in value.'

But how is this different than buying premium currency in a free to play game? The "Kin" can only be used inside Kik, how does the value increase?

<comment><USER8> Respectfully, I think you and others in this thread defining "Kin" too narrowly by thinking of it exclusively a premium virtual token for use inside of Kik.

Yes, that's obviously the first use-case. But thinking bigger, the combination of anonymous identity / mobile messaging + bona fide cryptocurrency can lead to something way more significant for Kik's users (who are primarily teenagers & pre-teens - people don't have access to credit and find it difficult to participate in the economy).

Assuming some level of mass adoption / easy FX to Bitcoin or traditional currency... Kin could represent a new way in which these users could meaningfully participate economically.

Kin will be tied to their anonymous Kik identity; it's managed through Kik which is always-on always-with-them (smartphone); it's the lingua franca for buying stuff inside of Kik with their friends & fav brands. And if they can eventually use Kin outside of Kik (either directly or via simple FX mechanics) - could be a game-changer.

So from Kik's POV it's definitely worth the extra headaches and effort to try to do this as a cryptocurrency vs. just internal tokens. Worst case, it doesn't really work and they've over-engineered a token system. Best case, they're a major player in the next-gen of cryptocurrencies.

<comment><USER8> Note: I just came across this: [http://avc.com/2017/05/kin/](http://avc.com/2017/05/kin/)

Much better detail on the what's / how's / why's. Including link to the whitepaper.

<comment><USER9> This makes much more sense. I thought it was just currency that needed to be exchanged from real USD. You can earn it as a reward. It just might be a game- changer.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Kik is launching their own digital currency as a token on the Ethereum network. Multiple tokens run on top of Ethereum. One of these tokens is called ETH. It's Ethereum's native and most widely accepted token. Why is Kik launching their own token instead of using ETH? Typically the answer to this question is about creating additional features that the native token ETH doesn't have (Ethereum tokens can be programmed to follow arbitrary rules). No, Kik's token will not have any additional features. The sole reason they are creating their own token instead of using ETH is to have a money printing machine that they control. It's in their white paper after several pages about decentralization and fairness. Search for "Kin Rewards Engine".

<comment><USER11> ETH is not a token that runs ontop the network, it is the asset that powers the network.

<comment><USER10> ETH is a token just as Kik's Kin will be a token. You are correct that it is built into Ethereum, rather than on top of Ethereum. I tried to make that distinction by calling it "native".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I have nothing good to say about Kik. I just want to remind anyone who is thinking about giving them money that they are the same litigious assholes who forced node and npm to give them (and not just deactivate) the namespace kik.

They are obviously shitty people and everything they touch is shit.

<comment><USER13> IIRC, it was npm (not node) that rolled over and gave it to kik just because they felt like it would be "confusing."

[http://blog.npmjs.org/post/141577284765/kik-left-pad-and- npm](http://blog.npmjs.org/post/141577284765/kik-left-pad-and-npm)

[https://medium.com/@mproberts/a-discussion-about-the- breakin...](https://medium.com/@mproberts/a-discussion-about-the-breaking-of- the-internet-3d4d2a83aa4d)

<comment><USER14> This ^

Arguably one of the best things to come out of that whole incident was NPM's realization that the (then) entire system of dependencies had a huge issue; that is, the fact that one pissed of developer could break a massive amount of production codebases.

IMHO the incident was a good learning experience for the JS community as a whole and really shouldn't be framed so negatively all the time.

<comment><USER13> I think a lot of it was much ado over nothing, but I agree that if you didn't already mistrust tiny, anemic modules written by single developers in your production code that it was a good lesson.

<comment><USER14> Exactly :)

A lot of larger companies affected needed a wake up call regardless.

<comment><USER12> The issue to me isn't the deletion of modules but rather the reassignment of modules. I'm completely ok with deleting modules. I am not ok with taking a name that used to exist and just giving it to someone else. That is the crime here not the deletion of modules. That should be the wake up call.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> There is a reason why you shouldn't adopt the e-mail address or phone number your cable company _could_provide to you: it ties you closer to their network and increases your dependence on it. I doubt that Kik's "core competencies" are anywhere near what it would take to launch and maintain a digital currency.

So, don't call it a digital currency and call it for what it really is, a "customer loyalty" program where hard money and attention is traded for scrip that never... ever... leaves the "company store."

</comment><comment><USER16> Why does Kik need a decentralized cryptocurrency to handle payments for digital goods? They can do it with virtual credits on their own servers a million times more efficiently.

<comment><USER8> Because doing it as a decentralized cryptocurrency would allow it to one day be more significant than just an internal token systems. There is power in the combination of anonymous identity / messaging + bona fide cryptocurrency.

<comment><USER17> But, and this is the important thing, how does that help kik make more money?

<comment><USER18> By owning 90% of a digital ecosystem

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> This is all starting to feel awfully similar to the time shortly before the last major bitcoin crash.

I've had 2 people who know absolutely nothing about technology tell me of their plans to take out 401k loans to buy in over the past couple weeks. Both refused to hear it when I pointed out how bad this decision could turn out. Both had fully bought in to the stories being pushed by "$100k by the end of the year!" type crazies/pumpers on reddit.

</comment><comment><USER20> Are any of the cryptocurrencies out there with a "monetary policy" aim of fised exchange rates, IE a digital derivative of USD or EUR? I know this is sort of heretical in that it abandons some of the lofty, revolutionary goals of digital currency but...

Currencies like e-pesa or the simpler share-able phone credit pseudo- currencies, give their users stable values. It's hard to imagine a neigborhood shop in Manilla dealing with bitcoin's volatility.

I think you need either (1) very fast, cheap & easy ways of converting to hard currency or (2) price stability.

I was hoping that bitcoin would develop the first. That way bitcoin could work as a sort of infrastructure, with most people thinking in fiat currencies but the actual transaction taking place in bitcoin. That hasn't really happened.

^Oh, and I generally like the idea of bootstrapping up to full fledged currency from an embedded, toy currency base. Good luck Kik.

<comment><USER21> a group called "MakerDao" is working on a token on Ethereum called Dai, which is backed by collateral in the form of a variety of different tokens, and is set up so that the price will target some multiple of something called "Special Drawing Rights", which is a basket of national currencies.

I think eDollar is (was?) going to be (is?) something backed with Dai, which would target the value of USD . (I have not kept up with it, so I don't know what the state of eDollar is.)

<comment><USER22> There is also Digix which plans to issue Gold backed tokens. [https://www.dgx.io/](https://www.dgx.io/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> I'd guess they probably kept a few thousands or million coins for themselves. This way if this takes off, they'll have millions of dollars worth of coin to trade for real money.

Or else they'll act as an exchange, which seems to be a good business too, as long as you have enough capital to get it going.

<comment><USER24> Someone should work through the mechanics of doing this as a form of IPO, without running afoul of applicable regulations.

<comment><USER25> The is already happening en masse. Look up "initial coin offerings" (ICO's)[0]

[0] [http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/initial-coin-offering- ic...](http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/initial-coin-offering-ico.asp)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> For clarification, Kin is a token using the Ethereum blockchain. There is a straight forward tutorial how anyone can create their own currency/rewards program/token.

[https://www.ethereum.org/token](https://www.ethereum.org/token)

</comment><comment><USER27> Not sure the cryptocurrency boom and gift certificate utility are super- correlated -- Target has been trying to trap me and my USD with those checkout cards for ages. Usually the incentive is social shame for not just giving straight cash to my friends as gifts -- here, I'm not so sure?

I guess it's about as viable as Dogecoin.

</comment><comment><USER28> You know "ML" throw that word around. I've seen some _ehem_ sites where you get paid a fraction of a cryptocurrency for explicit photos.

I was thinking for training an ML to recognize "acts" in explicit videos, you'd need a lot of data haha... so you'd need a way to pay people for their photos... but also the whole age thing... and why not regular money. But Kik... their own money... I don't know. Easier said than done obviously... I was also thinking about running a bitcoin node, watching transactions and providing an API analyzing sales for "patterns' but not sure... ahh...

I wanted to cry when I bought Amazon gift card to convert my bitcoin to a "safe currency" and a few days later it grows by $700 whyyyy oh well.

</comment><comment><USER29> HN threads on anything related to Ethereum (not Bitcoin) seem to really stir up a lot of junk and hate comments. So weird.

I'm just a web dev that thinks Ethereum is really cool technology (and have made some great money from ETH), but there are a lot of naysayers here.

</comment><comment><USER30> Educated guesses when regulators will comment on ICOs, and the impact of that on the crypto market?

</comment><comment><USER31> Kik releases interesting features about every 6 months, then promptly abandons them. They had a cool 'webapp' feature with a JS library for people to write browser apps that ran and integrated inside of kik. They dropped that and launched the bot store. Before this they had Kik Games, which were dropped for the browser.

Not sure why they do this. They still haven't monetized bots (I'm guessing this is how they will). Games and webapps could be monetized from the start as embedding ads was easy. I don't know what Kik is doing.

<comment><USER32> Maybe they don't either? Looks like a lot of test pivots?

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> Not a single ICO has delivered its promised product or service. The only returns have been from new investors or speculation.

I think it's still early to completely write them off as _just_ pump and dumps

<comment><USER34> Have you ever heard of Ethereum? These Kik tokens run on top of Ethereum which had an ICO a couple years ago.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Here's the whitepaper that actually discusses what they are doing (much better than this article IMO):

[https://kin.kik.com/Kin%20Whitepaper%20v1.pdf](https://kin.kik.com/Kin%20Whitepaper%20v1.pdf)

Also here's Fred Wilson's write-up (he's an investor in Kik): [http://avc.com/2017/05/kin/](http://avc.com/2017/05/kin/)

</comment><comment><USER2> The whole 'earn points for this' system seems like a good idea in general, but I wonder how appealing it will be for advertisers to buy coins that wind up having such an unstable price. By the time they make it to the consumer they could be worth half of what you paid for them. I imagine a simpler system would be more practical but the prospect of making tens of millions off of an ICO was just too appealing to pass up.

<comment><USER18> This system is designed to make advertisement obsolete

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> Please see [https://kin.kik.com](https://kin.kik.com) for more info, [https://reddit.com/r/KinFoundation](https://reddit.com/r/KinFoundation), and [http://slack.kinfoundation.com](http://slack.kinfoundation.com) for discussion.

</comment><comment><USER36> Why did the submitter add "amid bitcoin boom" to the title here? Or did Bloomberg change it?

</comment><comment><USER37> Aren't these the guys behind the npm fiasco? Wouldn't use them.

</comment><comment><USER38> Here's a short video that explains what Kik is doing:

[https://vimeo.com/218866968](https://vimeo.com/218866968)

</comment><comment><USER39> this is hilarious, Facebook can just launch their own coin if needed if you want to compete with them that way by giving users coins which will give them monetary incentives to use your service, hell Kik is laying the playbook for FB to copy them

</comment><comment><USER40> Why not just use bitcoin?

<comment><USER41> 10-minute block times make Bitcoin unusable as a transactional currency in it's current state (don't shoot the messenger).

<comment><USER42> What currency isn't transactional? I'm not following; are you suggesting bitcoin is not well suited for any purpose?

<comment><USER43> Believe it or not, Bitcoin isn't actually transactional these days. A new feature called "replace by fee" was introduced that allows coins that were used in a transaction which is still in queue for processing (hasn't yet been included in block by the miners) to be spent in a different transaction as long as the spender pays a high enough fee to jump to the front of the queue.

<comment><USER44> I was under the impression that that had always been allowed by the protocol, it's just an implementation detail on if a node will relay the tx and which tx the miner will choose.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> Not booming today, dropped 500+

<comment><USER44> Over a 24 hour period it's down 1.2%

</comment></comment><comment><USER46> Silly.</comment>


The year of desktop Linux, or Rapture, whichever comes first - <AUTHOR> http://karmcity.com/post/69900463735/the-year-of-desktop-linux-or-rapture-whichever-comes

<comment><USER2> I'm hopeful for 2014. SteamOS has the potential to bring a lot of new attention to desktop Linux from both consumers and hardware vendors.</comment>


Why Women Don't Apply for Jobs Unless They're 100% Qualified - <AUTHOR> http://blogs.hbr.org/2014/08/why-women-dont-apply-for-jobs-unless-theyre-100-qualified/

<comment><USER2> I'm not sure this article either supports its title or the claims the author makes within it.

The "women don't apply" finding comes from an HP study that's been widely quoted.

The author states:

 _Men and women also gave the same most common reason for not applying, and it was by far the most popular, twice as common as any of the others, with 41% of women and 46% of men indicating it was their top reason: "I didn't think they would hire me since I didn't meet the qualifications, and I didn't want to waste my time and energy."_

 _In other words, people who weren't applying believed they needed the qualifications not to do the job well, but to be hired in the first place. They thought that the required qualifications were…well, required qualifications. They didn't see the hiring process as one where advocacy, relationships, or a creative approach to framing one's expertise could overcome not having the skills and experiences outlined in the job qualifications._

Based on a survey of 1,000 men and women ... the results for why people don't apply for jobs are pretty similar. I haven't checked for statistical significance, but what I'm _not_ seeing is wildly divergent rationales by gender.

Of course, there's an obvious experimental design failure here: the question asked was " _if_ you decided not to apply for a job...", which fails to capture any real sense of what response rates amongst candidates of roughly equivalent qualifications actually were.

And yet the author continues to describe the HP study as "useful".

I'm left questioning the validity of both HP's research and the author's own analysis.

</comment><comment><USER3> False premise. Women apply for jobs they aren't qualified for all the time.

<comment><USER2> If you RTFA, that's pretty close to the author's point: that _both_ men and women tend to not pursue opportunities at pretty equivalent rates, for rather similar reasons.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: How Would You Design A Doggie IQ Test? - <AUTHOR>

I take care of two really cute street dogs (see: http://imgur.com/6sNPA.jpg ) and one thing that continuously surprises me is just how intelligent they are. One of them in particular is quite fascinating in this regard.
She has taught herself how to open doors with her paw, and she plays complex mind games with me. For example, once she invaded the space of the other and provoked him, while he was growling she just stood there observing my reaction to the situation. After I stepped in and defended her only then did she trust me enough to stay around me. Another time she started playing the doggie equivalent of hide and seek with me. She would watch me approach from underneath cars and then run off to conceal herself, while keeping track of my movements.
This is something really incredible.
I don't think that anyone has ever expected a dog to develop and test a complex theory of mind. Her behavior is just too complex to explain otherwise, and herein lies a very interesting problem. How do we know that she actually has one? How can we tell if she is as smart as I assume? To decompose the problem a bit, how do you judge what constitutes intelligence in the narrow framework of a dog's existence?
This is perhaps one of the most interesting problems I have come across in a long time. Even though it's doubtful that I'll discover something Earth shattering, but I want to at least make an attempt at solving it and perhaps we will learn something really fascinating about the mind along the way.
So, how would you go about it? What experiments would you perform? How would you set about in creating a doggie IQ test?
The best part is that I am in the position to execute the experiments as long as it doesn't hurt them (see: http://imgur.com/7O1xA.jpg )
Thanks in advance. <comment><USER2> Here's a description of a nice experiment that implies dogs do have a "theory of mind": [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp- dyn/content/article/2007/06...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp- dyn/content/article/2007/06/03/AR2007060300960.html)

In a nutshell, many dogs will vary whether they use their mouth or their paw to perform a task, depending on the circumstances under which they witness another dog perform that same task with either its mouth or paw.

A simple explanation of the difference is that the witnessing dog "explains" the other dog's way of doing things in terms of the decisions the other dog made.

You might look at books by Patricia McConnell, in particular "The Other End of the Leash" and "For the Love of a Dog". Stanley Coren also has some decent books on dog intelligence. These books focus on trying to understand the sorts of experiences you've described. More generally, Temple Grandin's "Animals in Translation" and "Animals Make Us Human" talk about some of these sorts of issues, not just in dogs, but also in cats, horses, pigs, and so on. I think you'll find there's a lot of research going on these topics-- a lot of it very fascinating.</comment>


Did you ever get a job you didn't apply for? - <AUTHOR>

No I don't mean solicitations. Here is my situation.
I recently started at a new job in the same company that I have been working for 4 years now, where I have realized that the job I am doing (technical interface to clients) has nothing to do with the job that I was hired for (systems design is what I applied for and what the interview was about). I really like the company but can't come crawling back to my old job, nor can I find another position since it's at least 2 years before I am allowed to transfer, and I'm not really ready to move to another company...but it looks like I have no choice. The manager tells me we have a need for someone doing the interfacing then the design right now, but maybe in +1 year we can see whats the situation then. My gut feeling is telling me hes lying and I am stuck there. Oh yeah, there was no salary increase – common practice in the company when you move jobs unless its clearly a promotion.
1. What would you do if you were in my shoes ? 2. Have you ever seen this happen to you or others around you ?? I mean...thats the whole reason behind the job responsibility tasks...to clearly define it so that you know what you are getting into!! <comment><USER2> It looks like my situation when I joined my current job.

My situation:

Took up a job that I was not looking for(didn't really think I would enjoy it and that I would have to 'bear it' for 18 months, but it satisfied some of my other criteria including my wanting experience in a very large company so that I could observe the culture) (the 18 month thing is the min duration at a job before one can change jobs at this company)

Opinion:

Without alluding that I am better of than if I had gone with what I wanted (project engineering/product development - in line with my previous experience) since I will never that know for a fact, it has been a great learning experience.

The things that I learnt, that I had to do at this job were completely different from what I had done previously, and exactly for that reason it has increased the breadth of my skill set in a very good way. Now, I consider them as invaluable additions in my attempts to achieve my future goals.

Companies spend massive amounts to know what the customers want, domain experts are forced to interface with customers so that they can use the feedback in designing better products or systems.

Your new role can be a treasure trove if you use this opportunity to get inside the customers' minds and give you that added edge if you were to get back into systems design later.

About the 'job responsibility' that you mentioned, this would be my suggestion for you:

By all means, use the fact that you were given responsibilities that you didn't apply for and were not looking for as a negotiating point for better assignments, favors or whatever..

But, if you really try to limit yourself to 'job responsibilities' you will be shorting yourself, closing yourself to new learning experiences that can actually enrich your knowledge base.

Dive into it and learn all you can. That is, if you really can't change the jobs and get what you want.

Good luck. (Make lemonade when life gives you a lemon :))

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks dude, I will try to use that as inspiration. But I will try to tough it out for one year, and then I guess re-evaluate my cards then...

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I have clearly had this happen a few times, and the results in either direction were not good.

You might just be happy that it's a good company and leave it at that.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks, I still feel duped, but at least it's recomforting that this actually happens to others.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> This is called "bait and switch" and is extremely common. There's a reason all those sales jobs are advertised as "management" positions.

</comment><comment><USER5> Talk to your boss. You can't just let this things sit and wait, be upfront about the issue and work it out together.

</comment><comment><USER6> When I was young I never had to apply for jobs. They would come and find me. Come to think of it, that's how it still works today, with a difference. Now the jobs are very brief. I get a phone call and quickly respond, get paid OK. Back then I would work for a year or so after each phone call. Job applications? Sure, done dozens of them. Results? Nil. The only way I have ever gotten decent jobs was by knowing someone who knew someone offering a job, or by walking in the door and speaking with the owner about why I want to work for him/her.</comment>


Former President George W. Bush, Live At Facebook HQ [video] - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2010/11/29/facebook-bush-facebush/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29 <comment><USER2> Is it just me, or is the stammering I remember from his presidency entirely gone now? He was perfectly eloquent before becoming President as well:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvknGT8W5jA&t=0m18s](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvknGT8W5jA&t=0m18s)

 _edit: he did say "colonializer" in this video_

<comment><USER3> He's a lot more relaxed--he doesn't have to watch what he says anymore, since pundits aren't analyzing his every word.

Though I didn't like him as a president, Bush always seemed to me like a guy you'd want to hang out with and have a couple of beers.

<comment><USER4> I never got that analogy considering Bush said he doesn't drink alcohol.

<comment><USER3> In my head he does. Regardless, the point stands: he seems like a fun guy to hang out with and I think he showed it in this interview.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Say what you will about G.W.B. But the man has charisma and he's damn funny.

</comment><comment><USER6> On Wikileaks: "I think loyalty ... to the greater good, not to a person ... is of utmost important" (my paraphrase of what he said).

Yep, I still don't like him.

Actually, this was really the only part of the interview where I really didn't like him.

</comment><comment><USER7> [http://www.livestream.com/facebookguests/video?clipId=pla_0d...](http://www.livestream.com/facebookguests/video?clipId=pla_0da9c42f-9499-4c60-8069-e306dd089fc3)

</comment><comment><USER8> Linking to a URL with Feedburner args may not be the best idea.</comment>


Asynchronous Learning - <AUTHOR> http://www.andjosh.com/2015/02/01/asynchronous-learning-bookmarking/

<comment><USER2> I don't have any statistics to back this comment up but I think it's quite common these days for people to bookmark stuff to read later except few do and the list grows insanely larger by the day. This is base on what I've heard roughly from Marco Arment off handed once and I believe I've read the same or similar comment from one of the competitors to instapaper.

The issue then would be how much actually ever gets consumed and even if they do, how much "actual" learning takes place simply by following up on reading stuff. I'd argue most people bookmark stuff of interest, less so for real educational value which in of itself is subjective at this point</comment>


Show HN: Create challenges and compete against your friends - <AUTHOR> https://outduo.com/?hn=2 <comment><AUTHOR> I'm Peter, the solo dev/founder behind Outduo.

Feel free to ask me questions (after you've signed up) and I'll give you a hand if I can :)

<comment><AUTHOR> I should probably mention that it's still very much in beta, so some features (like deleting challenges, password resets, and account preferences) are still in dev.

Your traffic boost has encouraged me to get my game on though!

</comment></comment><comment><USER2> Related blog post: [https://medium.com/@outduoapp/introducing- outduo-69fec10820b...](https://medium.com/@outduoapp/introducing- outduo-69fec10820b1#.m5u8gjusn)

</comment><comment><USER3> I see this post here everyday.

<comment><AUTHOR> I've only posted the link to the site twice (this being the second time), and the Medium post once :)

Just got lucky this time around and that's why it's still at the top of Show HN.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: For side projects, do you Git from the start, or at an MVP stage? - <AUTHOR> I'd say I experience some sort of writer's block when it comes to side projects. One key point is I am a bit of a perfectionist, which means if I don't think I'm going to do something optimally or close enough to it, I will end up not doing it at all.
A common problem I run into is I set up a GitHub, TODO on the README.MD, etc, and get 10 or so commits in. Then things get muddy and unclear, and when I'm stabbing in the dark trying to hack things to work, I really really really don't want to commit it without having a clear plan in mind. That also means I can't go ahead and use/ test the implementation (which might be necessary to test the validity of the implementation, and whether a refactor is required), so I get stuck and just stop working on the thing entirely.
Another thing is I always dilly-dally with frameworks, etc. I've put off building a personal website for about a year because I've bounced between Elm, Mithril.JS, Blazor, Laravel etc. I'll start up with one, run into a wall, and give up because I don't want to do things 'suboptimally'.
Anyone else experiecne this? How do you overcome it? <comment><USER2> For the version control, i personally put EVERYTHING on git. Literrally. I have my OS "installer", my desktop env files, my home files, projects, really everything but video/audio/pics because of the size. I do this because having commitment for a project means -for me- beeing able to work on it from everywhere when i have time. I don't have to worry if i want to change computer, reinstall OS or anything else. all what i've done is somewhere on git.

For a project, i nearly always start by writing a document to explain myself what i want to do, if the project is for learning or prod, etc. when the project is enough defined to stat producing something, i git it.

For your other question, I think it really depends on your goals. If you do not want to create anything but test/learn a bit/move to something else, it's fine. If you want to focus on something it's fine too. i'm not sure you have to overcome anything, it really depends on "why are you doing side projects ?"

</comment><comment><USER3> You've mentioned at least two problems with your side projects here.

The first one seems to be a lack of version control hygene? just work the way you normally would at work, if you know you're doing exploritory coding then make a branch, commit the WIP if you have to and rebase / squash clean up the history later.

The second problem you can overcome by deciding what you want to get out of a side project, if it's purely for learning a new framework then approach it with that goal in mind, explore the tools the framework gives you for solving common development tasks, compare with other frameworks but don't expect to have a fully working functional side project from this process. If you want to make a new personal website then approach it with that goal in mind, which usually would mean using a stack you're familiar with.

As for your initial question, yes I always use git, for everything. I've been burnt in the past and learned my lesson the hardway.

<comment><AUTHOR> The version control part is a very good point actually!

For personal projects I just use the master branch for everything, which I just realised might be the cause of a few of the problems there.

To be honest, I haven't done much front-end/ user facing stuff even, aside from a few Android apps and some uni assignments. There's so much to learn and I try to stay away from JS/HTML, to an irrational degree maybe.

Do you start with git straight away though, or once it's reached a decent size where you wouldn't want to lose the progress made?

<comment><USER3> I would generally initialise a repo when I start the project. I would grab a gitignore from [https://gitignore.io](https://gitignore.io) and not think to much more about it. You don't have to be super formal with your commits as you would when working with others.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> > I really really really don't want to commit it without having a clear plan > in mind

This is the core of your problem. Having commits that show exploratory work you've done is useful, _especially_ having a record of paths you went down that you later decided against. Do whatever it takes to change your mindset. Maybe make a toy repo and do a bunch of ridiculous commits to loosen yourself up.

</comment><comment><USER5> When I start a new project and have a lot of dirty commits, I just commit to master branch all changes without worrying about "cleanness" of commits. When I notice that I started adding features instead of prototyping I squash all previous commits and start adding "clean" feature commits</comment>


Poll: Do GitHub Stars Affect Your Decisions? - <AUTHOR> https://twitter.com/davidcanhelp/status/1027329860363071488 <comment><USER2> It's about the community first, then how frequently it's updated and last it's GitHub stars.

<comment><AUTHOR> When you say community first, what do you look for?</comment></comment>


Heathrow Airport recreates departure day 4x a year for young man with autism - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-23989422 <comment><USER2> Wow.

The cynicism and essentially self centered criticism of this story is nothing short of stunning and deeply depressing. If this place were the commentards section for a US right wing radio station or the UK Daily Wail, then OK. Be here? The community that threw a thoroughly reasonable collective fit when a depressed IT hero commits suicide? All those decent human threads about depression and other mental illnesses? All that concern for Chinese and child workers making Apple and other products? And then I read this crap when a massive busy international airport does a really decent thing?

Ok, now i finally understand why our governments treat us like filth. If we cant applaud this sort of thing, we have zero right to refer to our selves as "humanity", we are just selfish nasty scum.

I don't care what this costs. I don't care if the evil communist BBC didn't write a book, but instead wrote a quick article. I don't care if it inconveniences some arsehole arrogant businessman. I see no relation to between this and our stupid racist security arrangements.

What I care about and respect is a simple act of human decency. This is one such act, and I applaud it.

If is that is too much for some "people", kill my karma, I dont give a f __k.

<comment><USER3> Heathrow airport sucks for everyone, not just `businessman`.

This is not 'decent thing' but PR stunt. Similar way when cat on tree is rescued by three fire cars and police squad.

Just try to travel with someone who has serious mental condition and does not have 'connections'. Nothing makes flight smoother than saying 'I will kill you' to an officer.

<comment><USER4> A PR stunt that's been going on for 5 years and this is the first mention of it? Heathrow is generally a pretty miserable flying experience but you'd think that they'd be able to get it in the press a little sooner if it was just PR.

<comment><USER5> > Heathrow is generally a pretty miserable flying experience

Am I the only one who (so far!) hasn't had any issues with Heathrow? Every single time I've been it's gone smoothly and on time. Last time I went through there wasn't even a queue at passport control(!)

I just thought it better to speak up because otherwise there's a bias with only people who have complaints commenting :)

Good on them for doing this for this kid though. Definitely not just a PR stunt if it's been going on for 5 years...

<comment><USER3> Let me guess: usually travels alone with just cabin luggage. No children or friend who needs assistance. Most 'dangerous item' is laptop. Always has a return ticket. Never visited Belarus, Iraq or other 'dangerous' country. Does not work with chemicals or other 'dangerous' items which leaves traces.

<comment><USER5> Edit: Actually, I've decided I'd rather not share random details about myself with someone I don't know on the internet, but needless to say about 50% of your assumptions are incorrect.

And even if they weren't, I'm not arguing with nor excusing anyone else's experiences, just providing a counterpoint that not all experiences with Heathrow have been bad.

<comment><USER3> Sorry, that might sound sharper than I intended.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I'm genuinely curious and it wasn't addressed at all in the post - how did he make his first trip? Wasn't ALL of it novel the first time? Yet subsequent trips ALL of it has to be same or his stress level goes up?

I have a friend whose son is mildly autistic, and each new thing in his life has to be introduced in a specific way. For example, a new shirt will be brought into his room for several days for him to look at and touch. Once he's used to that he'll try it on, but he'll almost immediately take it off for the 'right' shirt that day. This can go on for several weeks, before he'll wear it in the house, but he still won't leave the house without putting on the 'right' shirt. He actually has a job, but it took almost six months from when he was hired until he would wear the full uniform for the job, because each piece of the uniform (and of course the job itself) had to be introduced in this fashion.

My friend's son is only considered 'mildly' autistic. I simply can't image going through a major airport the first time with someone like this. Once the pattern is established, yes, it's a challenge to keep it going ... but what about the first time?

<comment><USER7> One of two reactions from my experiences.

1\. You explain over a long period of time (weeks/months?) that you'll be travelling and what you'll be doing. The person is able to slowly come to terms with a change in routine before it happens. You set up a "new routine" for that particular day. Curiosity is engaged, and you have a relatively painless experience.

2\. All of the above, but you do it really tough, with lots of screaming and distress.

Once a routine is learnt, it's really difficult to break. But you can create new routines for different environments. Preparation is generally key.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Logistically, this is a pretty big expense; there must be a significant number of people involved to make this happen, considering the likely FAA regulations concerning flight numbers.

Hats off to both the airport staff for being willing and able to make this as seamless as it sounds like it is, and to the parents who realized the importance of making this a priority for their child.

<comment><USER9> FAA regulations in the UK? You're thinking of the ICAO or CAA.

I'm also pretty sure that there aren't many regulations on flight numbers. As long as ATC knows who you are, the government doesn't care what you tell your passengers you are.

<comment><USER10> > I'm also pretty sure that there aren't many regulations on flight numbers.

And generally there are so many flights airborne in UK airspace that the published flight number isn't the one given to ATC.

For example, EZY26FR currently overhead my location is published in the timetables as EZY602, but that number can be easily misheard, misquoted or subject to namespace collision on the radio so the airlines are encouraged to use alpha-num callsigns instead.

It really annoys me as someone who likes consistency. Why not just publish the actual callsign in the timetable instead of maintaining two systems and cross- referencing between them?

<comment> bulte-rs This is only because "regular people"/travelers are not used to alphanumeric flight "numbers". As highlighted in this article: change can be hard.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> This story is woefully incomplete. Where is the kid flying to? Boston, I imagine. Who takes him through Customs and Immigration there?

Since he flies out of LHR 4 times a year, one can only presume that he flies back also. What happens in the return flight? Who helps him at the departure airpost (BOS?)? Who helps him in Immigration at LHR, which is a nightmare even for non-autistic travelers?

<comment><USER12> It is a fun little story meant to balance the other harsh news of the day. It is not a biography on the poor chap.

<comment><USER11> I understand that it's a fun little story. But, for god's sake, at least make it somewhat believable!

<comment><USER13> What's unbelievable about it?

Why get so outraged?

<comment><USER11> I apologize for sounding outraged; I wasn't outraged at the actual events, but the story telling. It's as if someone leaves out critical parts of a story, and you're so engrossed in it that you think: wait a minute, how did that happen? I want to know more, dammit! :-)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Little things like this restore my faith in humanity :D

<comment><USER15> not mine. This is a big waste, what about all the other people in the world that LHR could go to a little extra trouble to help instead. The cost would pay for more ground crew, or maybe even train baggage handlers to not lose luggage quite so often.

I'm all for being good to fellow humans, but as Spock said, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

<comment><USER16> And what do you suggest we do for Aaran Stewart? Tough luck? People can handle losing their luggage once in a while. I doubt putting the money it costs to do this (how much is it anyway? Just paying for staff and a couple rearrangements made well in advance?) would improve baggage handling anyways. Aaran obviously can't handle flying differently, and it sounds like an important flight.

<comment><USER10> > And what do you suggest we do for Aaran Stewart? Tough luck?

[http://www.netjets.com/](http://www.netjets.com/)

<comment><USER17> Are you offering to pay?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> The key behind this would be strong anti-discrimination EU legislation [1] which means both the airport and the airline are responsible for disabled passengers. [2]

[1]: [http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/transport/air_transpo...](http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/transport/air_transport/l24132_en.htm) [2]: [http://www.reducedmobility.eu/20130730347/The- News/airline-l...](http://www.reducedmobility.eu/20130730347/The-News/airline- liable-for-passengers-with-disabilities-at-eu-airports-dot-reminds.html)

</comment><comment> cupcake-unicorn I wonder if this would at all be even considered in a US airport. I have also an unusual condition that falls under ADA protection, and have gotten into the position of having to ask for (what I thought was very reasonable, but unusual in so far as accommodation requests go) accommodation and was basically red- taped for 6 months before someone finally told me nothing could be done, short of me bringing in someone to sue them. I wonder if the UK is better about disability accommodation in general or if I was just incredibly unlucky?

</comment><comment><USER19> On the one hand, this is a wonderful and heartwarming tale.

On the other hand, the Heathrow staff (many of them of Indian origin themselves) treat every brown international traveler like a probable terrorist.

Heathrow could and should do a lot more to make travel a better experience for the many, rather than (only) for the special one.

<comment><USER20> There was a hint in the post about the real solution: he should've been pushed in via wheelchair on his first visit to avoid his having to be accommodated in a different way in the future.

My daughter is "on the spectrum" and we try very hard to not create situations that require us to jump through hoops to avoid her autistic meltdowns. If she makes unreasonable requests, we have to say no and steer her away.

For instance, at one point she asked us to remove the tags from her stuffed animal. Then it became a requirement to remove all tags. It's taken a while to cure her if that trigger.

On the other hand, if we ever need to know the name of a particular dinosaur, she has us covered.

<comment><USER19> _On the other hand, if we ever need to know the name of a particular dinosaur, she has us covered._

How did you communicate the "demise" of the brontosaurus?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> I'm curious if things like Google Glass or any kind of AR device will help with people like this in the future.

For example, if the store is a Dixon's.. modifying the signage before he walks in as to make him believe it's the HMV?

<comment><USER8> I think this would do a bit of a disservice to the disabled person. I'd think creating a somewhat dishonest alternate or augmented reality is a recipe for disaster. (What happens when he takes the glasses off and realizes that everything he has come to know is suddenly different?)

If the person can fully grasp the differences (and realizes that what they are seeing isn't reality), then I could completely be on board with that.

<comment><USER21> >I'd think creating a somewhat dishonest alternate or augmented reality is a recipe for disaster.

In some ways, they already are by recreating his previous experiences.

AR could in effect just enhance the carefully crafted reality and help out this person.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> I'm glad they are working on this for this kid because otherwise its the worst airport ever:

\- 20 minute bus rides between TERMINALS \- Then its time for the queues from hell.

\- Also, a landing card is required for transit to Ireland. (But no where else.)

\- Time for another queue. Just cause.

\- You must take a subway to get anywhere in Terminal 5.

\- Making a connection? Be prepared for total confusion on where to go, which terminal your flight is in, and which gate its at.

\- Terminal 5 is nice looking, the rest are claustrophobic ghettos.

\- Watch the movie Brasil.

<comment><USER23> > Also, a landing card is required for transit to Ireland. (But no where > else.)

I don't want to defend Heathrow but you need a landing card in this case as it is your entry point to the Common Travel Area [1].

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Travel_Area](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Travel_Area)

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> In the meantime, in Australia our permanent residence will be blocked because we have a child with autism... Same if we try Canada.

<comment><USER25> It's all about money, I guess. Probably they think you'll cost the country more than you'll contribute. (Not saying I like it).

<comment><USER24> It is, and I could even understand it, but then why do you go and ratify the UN convention for the rights of people with disabilities and the optional protocol on top of it? Including Article 18 on Liberty of movement and nationality. It is very pretentious. Why preach on inclusion? It is like saying whites were discriminating against blacks not because of racism but because of the additional cost for extra "colored" toilets! Also I have contributed like 100k in taxes in around 2 years and I am an asperger's myself. Sorry for the rant, I am frustrated...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> I wonder how accommodating Logan is in Boston. Or JFK for that matter. Flying internationally via JFK (in my completely subjective assessment) is actually less painful than flying between destinations in the U.S. Flying locally can be a nightmare and a half for most able-bodied folks.

</comment><comment><USER27> While this level of human kindness and consideration is amazing, I am curious what would happen if there were hundreds of people they would have to do this for or if the cost was in the millions of dollars?

I mean there is no other alternative?

Will virtual simulations one day help calm and treat people with these disorders?

</comment><comment><USER28> What about the return flight?

</comment><comment><USER29> This might be the most heartwarming story I've ever heard. I think even if I'd stopped working at the airport, I'd show up to do my job for 4 days a year.

</comment><comment><USER3> ... and people with mild autism are classified as 'normal' and get treated as shit, if they do not fit.

</comment><comment><USER30> Who paid for this? I frequently fly from Heathrow and it's a horrible airport, run into service problems almost every time. Yet they can do all this for one person.

<comment><USER31> So unfair isn't it? Clearly disabled children and their parents have had it too good for too long.

<comment><USER26> Actually Heathrow is a terrible airport. I had a connecting flight through there and swore I'll get on a scrappy prop plane via Djibouti first before doing that again.

The security "might" be impressive, but often there's no real coordination so I've felt this is largely theater. I was wandering around while looking for the security office and not once was I stopped and asked where I was going.

No one knew where the security office was. One of my travel companions got lost and wound up there and I had to ask 6 different people (I don't know if they were security, but had uniforms and radios) and all of them gave me the "try over there" treatment.

Gate announcements are invariably late so you either make it barely on time or not at all. I know this is something we have to keep an eye on, but tired people tend to fall asleep.

It also doesn't help that it's one of the most confusing airports I've ever been through. Probably only second to Charles De Gaulle. The language used on most sign posts is English, allegedly, but of no dialect I'm familiar with and with no obviousness at a distance.

I don't know if they've changed these things since the last time (it's been a couple of years), but it was really quite terrible.

<comment><USER22> nope - that's right on. you only missed the 40 minute bus rides between terminals.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> Well, if he were from Syria, he'd be even better off. He'd have a dictator and a bunch of terrorists recreate the worst day of his life every day for him. Also, his privacy would be protected, he'd never have to fear getting on the BBC website with his name and a picture.</comment>


AMD Poised for Explosive CPU and GPU Sales Growth in 2019 - <AUTHOR> https://hothardware.com/news/amd-poised-huge-cpu-gpu-sales-growth-2019-zen-2-navi <comment><USER2> Direct quotes from the article:

| If the next-gen CPUs live up to the hype ...

| if Navi ends up being a worthwhile solution ...

| [a] 24 percent year-over-year [decline] ...

| single-digit percentage revenue growth [...] could end up being conservative ...

| depending on how things play out ...

| It's all speculation at this point ...

| though that bit is less clear ...

| There are plenty of "ifs" ...

... there is nothing BUT ifs in this piece.

<comment><USER3> Yeah it's just speculation, sounds even like they're trying to hype up AMD stock...

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> CPU sales, sure. The value per core is through the roof. Nvidia is just too entrenched with gamers and CUDA users for Navi to have a chance. It would take a silicon miracle for Navi to be good enough to convert team green fanboys.

This piece is fluff.

<comment><USER5> > _Nvidia is just too entrenched with gamers_

No reason to think that. Ryzen showed that despite years of neglecting gamers (FX really was horrible for games) they come back as soon as the offer is better. Maybe less in the first generation, but in the second of just having the better offer they do (with the Ryzen 2000 series).

AMD is already still popular in the RX 570/580 segment, if Navi were competitive AMD would be fine there.

CUDA might be a different story, that depends on the software and if tensorflow etc is even still relevant then.

<comment><USER6> Ryzen is still worse for games though, it just doesn't have the single- threaded performance.

<comment><USER5> I'm collecting benchmarks and creating a global one in [https://www.pc- kombo.com/benchmark/games/cpu](https://www.pc-kombo.com/benchmark/games/cpu). The best Intel cpus are faster because they have a higher clock. Where the clock is equal Ryzen is minimally slower, and they are cheaper then while having more threads. Regardless, the Ryzen processors reach very good FPS in current games, look at the FPS of the Ryzen 5 2600 for example ([https://www.pc- kombo.com/us/benchmark/games/cpu/compare?ids%...](https://www.pc- kombo.com/us/benchmark/games/cpu/compare?ids%5B%5D=AMD+Ryzen+5+2600)).

<comment><USER6> Looks to me like the i5s have lower clock, lower tdp same price but perform better than the ryzens.

<comment><USER5> Well, that's kind of true. 2600X vs i5-8400 is the goto comparison for that, since they both are at 4 GHz (4.1 vs 4.0), see [https://www.pc- kombo.com/us/benchmark/games/cpu/compare?ids%...](https://www.pc- kombo.com/us/benchmark/games/cpu/compare?ids%5B%5D=Intel+Core+i5-8400&ids%5B%5D=AMD+Ryzen+5+2600X) for that. Yes, the i5-8400 is a bit faster while having a lower tdp and being at the same price, depending on the game of course.

But the 2600X is unlocked and comes with a better cooler. And the Ryzen 5 2600 is cheaper than both while also being unlocked, and the cooler is still better than that of the i5. The 2600 especially is really attractive, even more so if you factor in that AM4 is the better supported platform (it will run on the board you bought for the Ryzen 3 1200 when that series was released, and it is supposed to run the Ryzen 3000 series).

There now is the i5-9400F which is again a little bit faster than the i5-8400 while being cheaper. If that one had a cheaper board than the Z390 chipsets supporting it out of the box it would be a real reason for AMD to lower the price of the Ryzen 5 2600(X).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I love AMD, own stock in AMD, but I hope someone can flag this article. There's no content here, just speculation.

<comment><AUTHOR> Sorry. It seemed an interesting read.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I feel like every year for the last decade I've been reading about how AMD is just about to make major strides in the CPU and GPU markets. It feels like it never comes. I would welcome it, but it doesn't feel like enough to catch up to perceived Intel performance; at this point, it seems like they need to really exceed it.

</comment><comment><USER9> Can't wait to get my hands on a 64 core Threadripper, but I am not sure about Navi; I'd rather pair it with Titan RTX or whatever is next from NVidia on 7nm. Intel is now interesting only for NUCs to me (their quad core little ones are as fast as 4790k, which is unbelievable, and perfect for eGPU setups).

</comment><comment><USER10> I'm very bullish on AMD continuing to make gains in server land and workstations but I do wonder what the laptop situation is going to be like in the next generation. Intel put a lot of work into power efficiency not just at a chip level but at the chipset and driver level too. This has brought large gains for battery life and while I expect AMD to catch up eventually I'm not sure that it'll happen in Ryzen 2.

</comment><comment><USER11> I really hope they don't screw up GPU drivers at launch...

</comment><comment><USER12> To really get growth, they need far more OEMs shipping their hardware, surely?

</comment><comment><USER13> Again?</comment>


Bank of America Cut Off Finance Sites from Its Data - <AUTHOR> http://www.nasdaq.com/article/bank-of-america-cut-off-finance-sites-from-its-data-20151109-01585 <comment><USER2> The US banking system has not adapted to the modern world at all. Anyone who has worked with ACH will tell you how bad it is from a payment processing point of view - for those who don't know - you only receive negative ack, i.e., when a transfer failed and it's nowhere close to being instantaneous. It's common elsewhere to have a "read" password and a "write" password. Basically, you'll be prompted with additional security measures when you are doing a transfer. Also, the details I give out to somebody to receive money is the same details someone needs to take money out from my account. What the US banks have is a "digital" cheque processing system and not a digital banking system.

It's antiquated.

<comment><USER3> Gusto did a great blog post series about this, I highly recommend taking the time:

[http://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer- persp...](http://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-perspective- part-1/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Banks have been purposefully limiting customers' view of electronic data for years, first by eliminating running balances about 10 years ago and then by limiting online data to 90 days. They do this because confused customers are more likely to pay fees such as overdraft fees, which is where retail banks make most of their money.

Mint complied with the banks' demand to not display running balances but they do display data going back indefinitely in time.

What Mint has shown the banks is how valuable the data is to advertisers. The data is so valuable that Intuit is shutting down their popular $50/year semi- subscription Quicken software in favor of advertising to people via Mint.

In an ideal world a government regulator would step in and ensure data access and privacy. But we do not live in a very ideal world.

<comment><USER5> > In an ideal world a government regulator would step in and ensure data > access and privacy.

No, in an ideal world there would be much more competition between banks, forcing them to offer better services in order to keep their customers.

<comment><USER6> Given that I think everyone here wants banks to give us better data access and privacy, why is the more-competition ideal world better than the government- regulation ideal world in this specific regard?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> This leads to an opening for either a challenger to Mint that has better relationships with the banks, a bank with a better UI than the existing banks, or a bank that explicitly supports Mint.

The existing banks burying their heads in the sand when there is obvious consumer demand makes the area much more ripe for a new entrant. I'm not sure how it will play out, but I would consider switching banks in order to have a better UI on my money. Supporting something like Mint or Personal Capital is basically a requirement for me to put my money in your bank.

Note that I'm not even particularly happy with Mint, I just can't imagine not having some form of aggregation of my financial life. I probably check it at least 1-2x a week and have been for 5+ years, it's a critical piece of software for me.

</comment><comment><USER8> I don't use the aggregators because I want to, and they don't use my passwords and screen scrape because they want to. I just can't have being aware of my finances take all fucking day.

I wish there was a standard and secure format and protocol for collecting balances and transactions built into the FDIC or NCUA rules or something.

<comment><USER9> For a secure protocol just use HTTPS. Secure formats don't really exist for data interconnects, since you'd have to send across enough information to decrypt it, and now we're in the "security through obscurity" territory.

It might sound horrifying but JSON or CSV over HTTPS is the most likely to work and the least work for financial institutions to implement (thus giving them less ammo to fight it on cost grounds).

Services interconnecting is largely a solved problem in general. Banks might have needed better security historically, but these days these services are all fairly secure, so there isn't much bar raising that needed. Heck Apple Pay is basically this system.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Remember when Simple was going to offer an API and provide a path forward for this problem [1][2]? Never happened [3], speaks to challenges of financial data still I guess.

[1] [http://www.programmableweb.com/news/banksimple-banking- servi...](http://www.programmableweb.com/news/banksimple-banking-service-api- and-all/2010/09/07)

[2] [https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/simple- api](https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/simple-api)

[3] [https://www.simple.com/api](https://www.simple.com/api)

</comment><comment><USER11> (Mins involved over 6 months logging into 8 different banking websites/apps) > (Mins for me to just move my money to a bank that supports aggregators)

The banks' ship has sailed on the presentation front. They need to concentrate on strong read APIs and novel ways for authentication.

</comment><comment><USER12> Fuck it, I am going to build an open source project with the sole goal of automating access to all of these sites with selenium or something.

Get ready for war(in the nice, data science-y way)

<comment><USER13> That's what these "finance sites" already do. That's why you have to enter your bank username and password to use them - they just scrape the website.

Incidentally, I have never used one, because that requirement is completely insane.

<comment><USER14> Why is that insane? It's inelegant, but it's not functionally different than having an API and a system for registering API keys. Either you trust the aggregator or you don't; if you don't you shouldn't give them access to your data either way. If they do something they shouldn't with your data, they'll be ruined if it becomes public.

(Of course there's a huge gray area of things they could do that you wouldn't like, but that would't ruin them. But there's a clear difference between questionable things, like selling your data to advertisers, and completely not-ok things, like stealing your money).

<comment><USER15> > Why is that insane? It's inelegant, but it's not functionally different than > having an API and a system for registering API keys.

Because there is such thing as a read-only API. But logging into the banking site as a customer permits the aggregator to take actions as the customer, like wire transfers--which are not reversible, and not typically covered by fraud protection.

Sure, I might trust Mint not to do that, but what if Mint gets hacked? By definition, Mint can access my bank creds in plain text, since it must paste them into my bank's website. That is worse security than even my own bank's website, which undoubtedly stores only the hash of my password.

My bank is not going to indemnify me for fraud caused by Mint's security problems. Bank agreements usually say "don't share your account creds," so if you do, and then lose your money, the bank is not likely to make you whole.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> > Banks said they are within their rights to block or slow customers' access > to their own financial data.

I find this mindset incredibly disturbing

</comment><comment><USER17> Reminiscent of taxi companies vs ridesharing companies. Trying to fight/shut down these services vs working with them (or even developing your own competing solutions) didn't end well for taxis.

</comment><comment><USER18> Wait a minute. From _ITS_ data? From Bank of America's data? I think they mean from the _customer 's_ data. Data that the customer specifically authorized these services to access.

<comment><USER19> The way it works here in the US is that data belongs to the bank and not the customer.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> My credit union has an article on their FAQ on how to connect to mint :)

</comment><comment><USER21> There are solutions out there that the banks could use to allow their customers to have programatic access to their transactions (i.e. an API). OAuth 1.x and 2.0 both have ways to provide access to your data without you having to turn your password over to an aggregator (i.e. Mint). Banks have no incentive to evolve, the barrier to entry is so large (regulatory barriers) that there are not startup banks who could truly show the world what is possible.

</comment><comment><USER22> Couldn't banks and aggregators just implement OAuth, so the aggregator gets just the level of access they need, and you never have to give them your password?

</comment><comment><USER23> Is this just for bank accounts (checking / savings)? I have a credit card account with BoA, and Mint isn't having any problems accessing it.

</comment><comment><USER24> The crazy thing is that this problem has been solved a long time ago. MS Money had the ability to download from different banks and then you had all the data on your hard disk. Worked like a charm ,but as it seems to be the trend these days with things that worked well, MS abandoned it.

Mint is so primitive in comparison.

</comment><comment><USER9> We're on Wells Fargo who are also doing this.

Does anyone have an alternative banking solution? We aren't eligible for USAA. I'd love to keep local free ATM withdrawals, and I have no idea how depositing cash works for online only financial services.

<comment><USER25> EDIT: This is all wrong: _I think USAA checking and other financial services are open to most people now, not just military and relatives of current members. Insurance and perhaps retirement accounts, I think, are all that are still restricted._

This either used to be true and its switched back, or they were discussing it and decided not to implement it. Sorry for the mistake.

Also, yeah, as my sibling reply says, you can't deposit cash easily. I think you can technically mail it, but I would never do that. I used to get paid rent by a roommate in cash, it was a few hundred a month. I'd just pay for my meals and groceries with it instead of depositing it.

<comment><USER9> When you try and open a USAA Checking account, they ask you for your military affiliation, if you say none they say:

> Sorry, we can't open this account for you.

> USAA Bank products are only available to military members, veterans who have > honorably served and their eligible family members.

People keep saying USAA opened up the door to everyone, but their website says nothing like that.

<comment><USER25> Yeah, I tried to make a new account and saw the same message, that's why I edited it. A google search revealed a Reddit post from 2013 of people discussing it. Apparently that's when they closed it to non-military affiliated folks.

<comment><USER9> Oh sorry, I read your edit backwards.

<comment><USER25> No worries. I haven't been the best communicator this week.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Chase has been doing this as well.

[http://www.wsj.com/articles/big-banks-lock-horns-with- person...](http://www.wsj.com/articles/big-banks-lock-horns-with-personal- finance-web-portals-1446683450)

</comment><comment><USER27> I'm with BoA and have a mint account. This happened months ago. I pretty much knew what was going on, but didn't pursue the matter. I was always a little leery about letting mint into my account anyway.

</comment><comment><USER28> Can someone recommend a bank with accounts for small businesses that is unlikely to do this in the future? I'm on BofA now and refuse to hand reconcile transactions in 2015!

</comment><comment><USER29> They'll never disclose what the security issue is, I assume?

<comment><USER23> I suspect they mean that handing out your password is a security issue. It's not like these sites are new, though, so I don't trust that "security" is the main motivator.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> I stopped using mint a while ago since there was no way to get it to work with my Bank's two factor authentication. read only password would make things a lot easier.

</comment><comment><USER31> Why don't banks implement read-only passwords?

<comment><USER32> USAA does, but it's not implemented as simply as app passwords. There are two major issues with aggregators: 1) authentication and 2) data access mechanism. A read-only app password would solve #1, but aggregators commonly implement #2 by screen-scraping, which is the bane of everyone's existence. I wouldn't be surprised if half of the reason BoA cut off aggregator access was because most of the aggregators were screen-scraping, and BoA got tired of the support calls whenever they made a site change and people's accounts stopped syncing.

Last I heard (um, a couple of years ago), USAA's solution was a proper API, but Mint was still screen-scraping. I have no idea if that's because Mint is lazy or USAA'S API is too limited for what they want, but my money would be on the former.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> The solution is to stop using institutions like BoA and Chase that actively fight against your interests. Let your money talk.

</comment><comment><USER25> BoA used to have its own aggregator, have they removed it?</comment>


Show HN: A simplified weekly calendar to record and share wasted time - <AUTHOR> https://theslackertracker.com/ <comment><AUTHOR> Hi everyone, Max (the creator) here, I just wanted to note that previously submitted results can be revisited with their unique pages, e.g. [https://theslackertracker.com/bsoaztceyfjd/](https://theslackertracker.com/bsoaztceyfjd/)

I'm still trying to address some confusion that might come out of having the cumulative hour amounts shown in the week view, rather than a daily average or percentage of waste for that week as the value shown. I'm likely going to see how it starts to look with real submissions and will adjust accordingly. In addition, still challenged with activity + company name normalization, and general approaches to gamify and make more fun (without sacrificing submission legitimacy).

The idea started from Peter's line in Office Space, "I'd probably, say, in a given week, I probably do about fifteen minutes of real, actual work."</comment>


Show HN: Konkourse – Taggable group discussions with anonymity option - <AUTHOR> http://konkourse.com/

<comment><AUTHOR> konkourse.com is a side project of mine. My goal in creating this application is to provide a simple way for people to create public or private discussion groups that are easy to find (tagable), where users can choose to contribute under their identities or anonymously.

I've also provided a simple tool to combat trolling: the group owner can identify anonymous comments and block users from posting anonymously in the future.

I would appreciate any feedback on the overall site design, experience using the application, and general thoughts on it's usefulness.</comment>


Companies want MBA's who can code - <AUTHOR> http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-07-11/b-schools-finally-acknowledge-companies-want-mbas-who-can-code#r=read

<comment><USER2> "Coding is hard. HBS students who took the university's introductory computer science course said that they spent 16.3 hours a week on the course, which is "2-3 [times] more time than they would spend on an MBA elective that yielded equivalent academic credit," wrote Eisenmann in a Harvard Business Review blog post last fall."

This speaks volumes to the quality of the education an MBA provides. I wonder what the ratio of MBA candidates who want to put in that level of effort are to those who would choose "easier" paths?

</comment><comment><USER3> I often wonder how many CS undergrads go onto getting an MBA - would be an interesting statistic that I imagine must be available somewhere.

</comment><comment><USER4> I think they actually want MBAs that can make good business decisions.</comment>


Daring Fireball: Viber - <AUTHOR> http://daringfireball.net/2010/12/viber

<comment><USER2> Under the bad he lists:

        When you sign up for Viber, they send
        a push notification to everyone in your
        address book who has already signed up for
        Viber. I'm not sure it's right to call this a
        privacy issue, per se, because it's only sending
        notifications to people whose phone number you
        have and who have your phone number, but I'm
        opposed to any service that sends notifications
        to others on my behalf without my consent. And
        there is no way to turn this feature off.

I'd say it is a privacy issue per se, because it is NOT true that everyone whose number I have in my address book has my number. There are people in my address book who I am careful to only call from my office phone, specifically because I do not want them to have my iPhone number. I also have numbers of people who I have never called from any phone, and who do not have my number. I have them there for certain emergencies.

<comment><USER3> Simple fix here.. allow the end user to choose (maybe default to not sending)</comment></comment>


Google's fired engineer: James Damore's claim against search giant revealed - <AUTHOR> http://www.siliconbeat.com/2017/11/03/googles-fired-engineer-james-damores-claim-against-search-giant-revealed/ <comment><USER3> These cowards don't link to the original: [https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-I...](https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles- Ideological-Echo-Chamber.pdf)

Instead, they link to the heavily edited Gizmodo hit piece, that has the sources removed. Dishonest

<comment><USER4> Looking at the poster's history, I imagine this was "laziness" rather than "cowardice".

For an example of cowardice, take note when this thread is almost certainly flagged and buried within the next hour or two.

<comment> aaron-lebo That's such an unfair way to paint your opposition.

This is how Damore does "evidence" and proves sources:

 _De-emphasize empathy - I've heard several calls for increased empathy on diversity issues. While I strongly support trying to understand how and why people think the way they do, relying on affective empathy—feeling another's pain—causes us to focus on anecdotes, favor individuals similar to us, and harbor other irrational and dangerous biases[0]. Being emotionally unengaged helps us better reason about the facts._

Right because Damore is so objective and the people he is trying to engage are emotional cripples. Here's his "source" for that:

[https://bostonreview.net/forum/paul-bloom-against- empathy](https://bostonreview.net/forum/paul-bloom-against-empathy)

This is not what objective research looks like.

<comment><USER4> I'm not sure if you're addressing me, OP, Damore, or just yelling into the aether. I certainly haven't said anything TO address regarding the content of Damore's original paper.

For the record, I found Damore's reasoning to be terribly flawed. However, I happen to also believe that squashing all public discussion in its wake is foolish, cowardly, and entirely counterproductive from a practical standpoint.

If you're afraid to pull bad reasoning out in the open and cleanse it with the sunshine of better reasoning, then it just festers and grows in the shadows.

<comment><USER5> The problem is you're implicitly assuming this (and other recent "culture war topics" is actually about reasoning and legitimate attempt at debate. It isn't. This is about controlling narratives and _reframing_ offensive goals so they become a legitimate political opinion.

Most of these calls for a "debate" are not trying to actually debate anything. They are trying to make enough confusing noise and repeat their talking points as often as possible.

For a much better explanation of how this works - and why it's a trap which educated, well meaning, politically-interested people seem to be particularly vulnerable - see this short video essay:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaPgDQkmqqM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaPgDQkmqqM)

<comment><USER6> > _It isn 't._

That's not something that you may simply unilaterally declare. I don't recall anyone appointing you final judge of what peoples' motivations are.

Remember " _I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it._ "? Authoritarian liberals are trying to grab the authority to dictate what we may and may not discuss and we mainstream liberals must prevent that at all costs, lest we lose the soul of the liberal movement itself.

<comment><USER5> I didn't "simply unilaterally declare" my point - I included a link to a video that provides a much better explanation than I can give in a short post.

> appointing you final judge of what peoples' motivations are.

I not claiming such authority. I'm a stranger on the side of the road who thought it would be a good idea to offer warn you the bridge you are about to9 drive over is unstable. You have the freedom to heed my warning and find another route, or you can ignore me and drive over the bridge. Maybe it's time to use Bayes' Theorem if you like that kind of inference?

> [general appeal to emotion using platitudes about free speech]

Is someone's speech being banned? Free speech does not mean you are guaranteed an audience.

This is a nice example of the reframing technique I was talking about. Nobody's speech is being restricted, but countering your points would mean arguing about the subtleties of free speech doctrine, instead of what my post was actually about: the current tactic of endlessly calling for "debate" that never actually becomes a debate.

No, I don't have a lot of evidence on hand at the moment. All I can offer right now is the conclusions from my firsthand observations of this technique over the last ~20 year. You have the freedom to use this information as you wish.

<comment><USER6> > _I 'm a stranger on the side of the road who thought it would be a good idea > to offer warn you the bridge you are about to9 drive over is unstable. You > have the freedom to heed my warning and find another route, or you can > ignore me and drive over the bridge._

Note the verbal sleight-of-hand pdk95 uses (and I don't mean the obvious false dichotomy): he presents his behavior as a kindness to others, the hidden assumption being that his viewpoint (assessment of the bridge's instability) is an unassailable truth that we should not question. Ironically, he is using the same sort of rhetorical trickery as the kind he condemns his opponents for using.

I don't know about the rest of you but the more frantically someone assures me that their statements are totally correct and that I need not verify them for myself or listen to differing opinions, the more suspicious I get. What exactly are pdk95 and people like him so terrified of? Is it that we are not clever enough in their opinion to recognize bad ideas and reject them ourselves?

Take the third choice. Inspect the bridge yourself and make up your own mind whether it's stable.

> _Is someone 's speech being banned? Free speech does not mean you are > guaranteed an audience._

Odd, I don't recall mentioning banning anywhere in my post.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> So sad to see yet another article linking the version of memo edited by Gizmodo, instead of the original one.

Just imagine: You write "X". A malicious website writes "he wrote Y". Somehow it becomes an important topic for the whole planet. And almost all newspapers link the "he wrote Y" document.

Is this an exceptional incompetence, or a standard in journalism? Is it a new standard of the clickbait era, or was it always like this?

</comment><comment><USER8> I work in the UK. It's much, much harder to get rid of someone without losing a case than it is in California. You know what? If someone's disruptive, aggravates his co-workers or embarrasses the firm in public, they're gone. They can get taken to industrial tribunal, they lose and just chalk it up to the cost of doing business.

Google took a few days to think about it before firing Damore. I'm sure they worked out the cost/benefit.

Yeah, they'll fight this (and the line of argument sounds like a reach) but even if they lose, it's just the cost of doing business. They might tighten up their process for firing people to avoid the particular vulnerability, but they won't stop doing it.

</comment><comment><USER9> This article mentions that in California there is no protection of freedom of speech in employment (i.e. a company can terminate you for voicing an opinion it doesn't want voiced), but this seems to be the premise of Damore's unfair dismissal claim?

On that basis, I can't see him having much of a chance.

<comment><USER10> _> This article mentions that in California there is no protection of freedom of speech in employment (i.e. a company can terminate you for voicing an opinion it doesn't want voiced), but this seems to be the premise of Damore's unfair dismissal claim?_

Uh, no, actually, it's been reported many times in many other places that Damore's claim is that he was speaking out in an effort to improve working conditions at Google, and _federal_ law prohibits the dismissal of an employee for engaging in that sort of activity.

[https://www.usnews.com/opinion/op- ed/articles/2017-08-22/why...](https://www.usnews.com/opinion/op- ed/articles/2017-08-22/why-fired-engineer-james-damore-may-have-a-federal- case-against-google)

<comment><USER11> > effort to improve working conditions

I'd assume the bar for this, though, is far higher than just claiming it. Obviously we're not not dealing with a clear cut poor working conditions like no restroom on site, or constant verbal abuse, etc; the meat of the contention seems to be that he wasn't allowed to discuss company policy with coworkers in regards to a politically sensitive subject, and that people with political views that don't cleanly align with that policy feel ostracized. That seems pretty close to "my freedom of speech wasn't protected".

Regardless, it feels like the litigation is somewhat lacking in merit unless Damore can cleanly tie it back issues that made his day to day job difficult to perform (i.e. bona fide poor working conditions).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I hope Damore wins.

<comment><USER3> Me, too. Just so ironic how the responses of Silicon Valley/Media proved his point exactly.

<comment> aaron-lebo He made sizable list of claims, criticism of any of them is not evidence of what he was saying.

My belief that you are wrong about Damore doesn't make you right. This should go without saying, but you made a new account to say that.

<comment><USER12> > This should go without saying, but you made a new account to say that.

...due to fear of the consequences of publicly holding a non-mainstream opinion in a culture-war subject, I assume. While I agree that merely being contrarian doesn't make the GP right, I also believe that calling them out for trying to protect themselves isn't very helpful.

<comment> aaron-lebo They've got nothing to protect themselves from. It's not hypocritical for that same poster to accuse others of cowardice and then hide in anonymity?

<comment><USER13> They were criticizing a media outlet for not posting an original source, they used the word cowardice but its very different from the sense you use it - <USER2> a label of a personal behavior rather than a company. So it doesn't seem particularly hypocritical to me. When Damore is being tried in the court of public opinion, it matters a whole lot that the media publishes something different from what he wrote.

Many people such as Damore, have had their careers destroyed over saying things that are not "correct". Those on the "correct" side face no such consequences. So yeah hiding in anonymity makes a whole lot of sense for one side and is completely unnecessary for the other.

<comment> aaron-lebo If you can't accept the unintended consequences of your actions, don't take action.

Most jobs will fire you for being a nuisance. James was at Harvard and Google, he should be fine landing on his feet.

<comment><USER13> Yeah, well they didn't take the action of posting publicly to avoid said consequences just as you suggest, which you then criticize them for.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Interactive Poster Sizing Chart - <AUTHOR> http://justhang.me/

<comment><AUTHOR> I was buying posters yesterday and got fed up trying to figure out what size I actually wanted.</comment>