Show HN: Imgix.js, a JavaScript library for responsive imaging - <AUTHOR> http://www.imgix.com/imgix-js

<comment><USER2> I wonder why are there so many services that work with this kind of business model. while I would be willing to pay for code I can own, I would never invest in something in something where I can't predict it's future.

<comment><USER3> I can't speak specifically about this responsive image feature, but as for imgix's core business, I have mixed feelings.

It's pretty trivial to write on-the-fly image processing using an existing graphics library. And given that the image can be cached and served from disk and a CDN, it can scale incredibly well.

Having said that, the features that they support is impressive, the API is intuitive, the speed is great, and you can stick your own CDN infront of it (or use theirs, which is actually Fastly, I believe). The founder, Chris, is wicked smart...this is really more than just a wrapper around GM.

<comment><USER4> I just had to write an image server for work and found it incredibly hard. What's your on-the-fly image processing setup look like?

<comment><USER3> I'd break it down into two parts. The first is the image transformation. For this we use graphics magic, and based on the params in the querystring, we'd crop, resize, alter the quality, anchor the image to a focus point and so on. Not copy and pastable, but [1] should give you a rough idea. Also [2] is code we use to get the file type and size of the image (gm identify can be painfully slow).

The second part was a bit more "fancy". There were two really slow parts to this (a) fetching the origin (from S3) and (b) applying lossless compression (for a large image, it can take 10+ seconds). Fetching from origin is easily solved by caching the origin to disk. So if you ask for goku.png?w=90001&h=9001 and then goku.png?w=2393&h=43433 it's only going to be 1 origin fetch. For the lossless compression, we just used the filesystem as a queue. We'll serve up the umcompressed image with a short cache header (maybe 10 minutes) and store it in /storage/uncompressed. The filesystem is monitored and when a file is added, we compress it and them move it to /storage/compressed.

So, when you serve an image, the flow is:

\- check for the file in /storage/compressed/ and serve that with a long cache header (this is a fully transformed image (hash the querystring parameters))

\- check for the file in /storage/uncompressed/ and serve that with a short cache header (this is a fully transformed image (hash the querystring parameters))

\- Check if we at least have the original in /storage/original

      - if not, fetch the original, put it in /storage/original

\- Transform the image, store it at /storage/uncompressed and serve it up

\- In the background, compress images and move them from /storage/uncompressed to /storage/compressed

It might seem like overkill when you consider that, despite serving thousands of images per second, the CDN handles almost every request. The problem is with the lossless compression. We found it impossible to do it on-the-fly for too many of our images, so you absolutely need that available and ready to go for the 5% CDN miss.

[1] [https://gist.github.com/anonymous/8f328359f07f6c5d142e](https://gist.github.com/anonymous/8f328359f07f6c5d142e)

[2] [http://openmymind.net/Getting-An-Images-Type-And- Size/](http://openmymind.net/Getting-An-Images-Type-And-Size/)

<comment><USER4> I have heard anecdotally that graphicsmagick and imagemagick both have awful memory leaks. Did you run into this? We serve ~400 reqs/sec from our image server _after_ putting a CDN in front of it, so we couldn't work with memory leaks.

File size was a problem for us too, as was file format. We needed a solution that would work with pngs, jpegs, gifs and tiffs.

<comment><USER5> I worked for a company that used ImageMagick for compositing images together and resizing them to one of ~60 sizes (different page locations, device types, etc.). While it worked, and it was at the core of the company's technology, it was truly the worst software I have ever had to wrangle into a production service.

You name it and ImageMagick could do it:

      - Leak memory
      - Perform terribly until you find the magic incantation that is 10x faster
      - Output wildly different images after a minor patch release
      - Remove / change options after a minor patch release
      - Enormously degrade performance after a minor patch release
      - Have numerous security vulnerabilities all the time, which require frequent upgrades
      - Dump core more often than you might like

It took us upwards of 3 months to simply move from one ImageMagick release to another (a few minor versions ahead), and we had to do all sorts of workarounds and A/B tests to ensure the images would look right.

I heard that GraphicsMagick was superior in that it maintained some consistency of behavior between versions, but it doesn't have all of the functionality of ImageMagick. So we couldn't switch to it.

Another company that I worked for had a fleet of several thousand servers running constantly just to thumbnail user uploaded images, and it was not unheard of for it to fall behind.

IM / GM are the stock answer to process images, but from my experiences they have no place in a production system. I think this is an area that is pretty poorly served by open source software; there are lots of libraries to handle different image formats, but no good infrastructure exists to tie it all together (that I'm aware of).

<comment><USER4> Eep. Thanks for the writeup. I'm really glad we didn't go with imagemagick.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> This is nice, but it does not put a valid img tag in the document source without javascript execution. That might be fine for things that don't face the public internet, but if you do any type of public publishing, you should care about having markup that describes your content independent of scripts or css.

This is why standard markup-based responsive images (picture and srcset) are such a big deal.

<comment><USER7> There is nothing stopping you from setting the src tag. But you are just adding another request. Our base service works perfectly with src set and picturefill. This library is for cases where a different result is desired.

<comment><USER8> Why isn't there an img-tag in the default example? Why are you promoting bad practice by not having images in img-tags? You solved one problem but created a much bigger problem. Bots, screen readers and non-javascript client should see an image, not a div with some attributes.

<comment><USER9> They're welcome to target whichever type of users they want to - it's 2014, most average internet users have javascript enabled. Besides, you can add a title/aria-* attribute for bots and screenreaders (perhaps not semantically correct but gets the job done).

<comment><USER8> Yes it is 2014 and we should be able to follow simple standards that has been around for quite some time.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> What would the advantage of this be versus using the picture tag with your own image sources hosted on a CDN? (Let's assume picture tag is widely supported for now)

<comment><USER7> It is possible to easily target thr picture element using imgix's URL API directly. However, with picture you are limited to a set of image sizes and predefined dprs. This library allows the containing element to recieve an image at any size necessary with any DPR multiplier (up to 5, I believe) with the added bonus of conditional image manipulation overrides. In the example, we are baking in textual image information. Other edits like image quality and sharpening or midtone adjustments could be conditionally set as the image crops larger or smaller.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Title is "for responsive images", not "imaging".

Imaging is completely different!

<comment><USER7> What is your definition of imaging? Our use of imaging is in reference to imaging in technology. "The production of graphic images from digitally generated data." Our service processes images on our servers and produces new image data with each request when necessary (if not cached already.) The Javascript library is just a way to interface with our infrastructure and generate these requests.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> where did they get the yeti image in the demo?

<comment><USER7> I'm not sure what "yeti" image you are referring to. All images were purchased royalty free images from iStockPhoto.</comment></comment>


A Scheme Interpreter for ARM Microcontrollers - <AUTHOR> http://armpit.sourceforge.net/ <comment><USER2> Cool project. The eLua link in the footnotes is dead the new eLua link is:

[http://wiki.eluaproject.net/FrontPage](http://wiki.eluaproject.net/FrontPage)

Two interesting "waves" to watch in traditional very small microcontrollers, its fun to think about which wave will hit first and have more long term impact, unix on a microcontroller like the retrobsd project to put BSD on something as small as a PIC, or high level language on very small chips like these scheme/lisp/forth/lua projects.

<comment><AUTHOR> I was aware of uCLinux but had never heard of retroBSD :)

I've some embedded projects ideas that in the future I might want to try out. A midi sequencer or a groovebox.

I'm looking at this $4 arm board - [http://www.cypress.com/documentation/development- kitsboards/...](http://www.cypress.com/documentation/development- kitsboards/psoc-4-cy8ckit-049-4xxx-prototyping-kits)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Great project! I think Espruino is in the same niche. However Espruino looks much more "user-friendly" \- it has tutorials, it explains how to build an interpreter for certain developer boards, it has lots of hardware-specific modules with documented APIs and it has a shiny IDE for newbies.

Scheme could have it all, it even fits better, since it's a smaller language and presumable a faster one. However this project looks abandoned. Also, and interpreter written in assembler would be oh so hard to debug I think.

Do you know if there are other projects with alternative languages for STM MCUs except for eLua and Espruino?

<comment><USER4> I don't think Armpit is abandoned. There was an update just before Christmas. It's not developed in the open, sadly.

Also, being written in assembler means it could become self-hosting. I think it's a very interesting project for it and have been looking for things to do with it for a while.</comment></comment>


Report: Apple building its own servers to prevent snooping - <AUTHOR> http://9to5mac.com/2016/03/23/apple-cloud-infrastructure-servers-snooping/ <comment><USER2> Apple might want to talk to IBM about OpenPOWER. The POWER8 chips and chipsets lack known internal micro controllers that have their own flash unlike Intel's chips that have the Intel management engine. Consequently, there is nothing there to flash with malware. Also, all of the system firmware is open source. That is the motivation behind the Talos workstation board, provided that they get enough interest for an initial run:

[https://raptorengineeringinc.com/TALOS/prerelease.php](https://raptorengineeringinc.com/TALOS/prerelease.php)

If Apple is concerned about tampering enroute, they could have the flash chips for the system firmware provided separately by a trusted party and transported like a bank shipment. Then flash and install them at the datacenter. That should thwart adversaries who cannot do their own manufacturing runs of modified versions of the chips, which is just about everyone. I guess the manufacturer/fabrication plant could do a custom compromised chip, but given that the costs involved are prohibitive, I doubt that would happen.

Apple could do the same with the firmware and flash for every other component in their datacenter that has a microprocessor such as the hard drives, the NICs, etcetera. They are large enough that part manufacturers would likely turn over the source code for their firmware in order to secure their business along with anything else that they need/want.

<comment><USER3> Doesn't the management engine exist as part of the BIOS on the same NAND? Couldn't Apple simply have Intel give them a custom BIOS that is signed?

<comment><USER4> Groups more powerful than Apple tried to convince Intel to give them the opportunity to run only their own custom code on those Intel-signed areas of the processors they buy. What seems possible is running code on top of and in addition to the existing system, see CompuTrace.

This isn't "simple" except perhaps for some US (and US only, by virtue of Intel being head-quartered there) agency with huge procurement budgets and persuasive legal instruments, and I'd expect push-back even then.

<comment><USER2> Why would they need to convince Intel when they could infiltrate them for what they want?

<comment><USER4> If you infiltrate, with luck you get a half-assed data sheet.

If you coerce them (with those persuasive legal instruments) you get minimum compliance to keep people out of jail.

If you actually get some cooperation established, I'll guess that gives a much better support experience.

<comment><USER2> If you are willing to throw resources at deciphering things, infiltration could be all you need.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> "Apple has long suspected that servers it ordered from the traditional supply chain were intercepted during shipping, with additional chips and firmware added to them by unknown third parties in order to make them vulnerable to infiltration, according to a person familiar with the matter."

I feel like the entire world has gone insane, and every boundary is being pushed to its limits ... and then pushed beyond those limits. Where does this end?

<comment><USER2> The world was that way long before you realized it.

<comment><USER6> No, this is post-9/11\. It only started with the PATRIOT Act. I vividly remember the Clipper chip debates in Congress. This is that on steroids, with no disclosure what-so-ever. In the communist block, that was different, of course. But in the West, you used to laugh and sneer at Stasi and Soviet "papers, please!".

<comment><USER7> >No, this is post-9/11\. It only started with the PATRIOT Act.

you must be kidding. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG#Compromised_machines](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG#Compromised_machines)

<comment><USER8> The Crypto AG case is a stronger argument for his point than yours: the targets were foreign, which is to say legal for the NSA to spy on, and it was done with the involvement of the company.

In the current era, the targets are often domestic and they're willing to compromise U.S. companies on a large scale to do it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> ___" Apple has long suspected that servers it ordered from the traditional supply chain were intercepted during shipping, with additional chips and firmware added to them by unknown third parties in order to make them vulnerable to infiltration"_ __

Wow, so this is very interesting given, pretty much, everything that has been going on.

Will apple actually be the bastion of freedom (both in market and privacy) that the US supposedly stands for??

Google makes its own machines, as does facebook (actually more interested in FB's fiber switches/routers, but thats beside the point)....

But Apple has made "servers" for years... I guess they didnt consume them in their own DCs?? So I basically take it that they are effectively joining their take on Open Compute (mobos that can be mounted in controlled environments, where controlled now also means they can ID if anything was modded/changed in shipping?)

 __ _EDIT: I would really like to know how long "long" is from "apple long suspected"....

I was informed of NSA back-doors in Cisco gear in 1997 - WTF is Cisco's stance on any of this -- I haven't heard anything from them at all (or I missed anything they said)_ __

<comment><USER10> Sounds like NSA's Tailored Access Operations[0], and other equivalent agencies. When you're a big enough target, state actors bring the full force of the state's espionage tools to bear.

[0] [http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/how-the-nsas- secre...](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/how-the-nsas-secret-elite- hacking-unit-works/)

<comment><USER9> Exactly!

How many machines have you purchased in your career? I've purchased THOUSANDS - which of these have been intercepted and compromised?

I have no clue.

<comment><USER11> I don't know about spy agency compromise, but I have definately caught suppliers "accidentally" sticking counterfeit memory into devices.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Is Apple saying anything about what they found? This is a big deal. Who put something in their servers? NSA? The PLA? Samsung? Did they have any strange chips analyzed? There are companies that can take an IC apart and see what's inside.[1][2] It's not cheap, but Apple could afford it.

[1] [http://www.siliconinvestigations.com/](http://www.siliconinvestigations.com/) [2] [http://www.istgroup.com/english/3_service/03_01_detail.php?M...](http://www.istgroup.com/english/3_service/03_01_detail.php?MID=43&SID=86&ID=251)

<comment><USER3> The PLA?

<comment><USER12> People's Liberation Army. China's military.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Why not just contribute a few designs or some open source software and join OCP?

[http://opencompute.org/](http://opencompute.org/)

Last time I checked, Apple was not in the business of making data center equipment, so it's not like they would give up IP that is central to their business model.

</comment><comment><USER14> When will we get secure PC architecture for the consumer market?

<comment><USER2> When consumers start paying for things like Talos:

[https://raptorengineeringinc.com/TALOS/prerelease.php](https://raptorengineeringinc.com/TALOS/prerelease.php)

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> No company is static, what will Apple look like in 10 years? What would happen with my data they recorded today should company policy take a shift?

I'm quite uneasy regardless of who holds my data.

</comment><comment><USER16> I don't know how Apple's servers security fares now, but I took a quick look 4 years ago and it was notoriously bad. They were responsive and solved the exploitable bugs soon after I notified them. No bounties though.

If their software and network security is similar now.. then they should spend resources there rather than care too much about modified hardware by a governmental agency.

<comment><USER17> Wouldn't it be completely separate teams ? I can't imagine the hardware team's efforts taking away engineers from teams handling software security.

<comment><USER18> An issue at very large companies like Apple is that while they can be superb in one area or in one core product does not translate into being adept in other areas under different teams with different management styles, demands budgets, etc.

So unless Apple are going to put their best and poach other industry bests, their result will likely not deliver on premise or promise.

<comment><USER19> Judging by their rhetoric and their recent win (can it be called that?), there is certainly widespread interest in them locking themselves down. They would look a little foolish if not.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> In theory, does a backdoored firmware run slower? If yes, then can you detect a backdoor by building one yourself and benchmarking?

Or are the margins of error on repeated benchmarks larger than any performance hit due to a backdoor, or can something be backdoored without any performance hit?

What about power consumption?

<comment><USER21> Practically, backdoored firmware doesn't necessarily run services and communicates to the mothership all the time, nor does it communicate using conventional protocols. It creates invisible hole in the system beyond OS's reach to detect and repair it. Furthermore, the hardware (or chip based) backdoor is way more sophisticated, typically have been in use in the servers of foreign governments of interest. This chips can be used to take full control of a server, and the whole network when places strategically.

In another note, hard RTOS are not used in servers, so performance cannot be compared with benchmarking tools.

<comment><USER22> >> In another note, hard RTOS are not used in servers, so performance cannot be compared with benchmarking tools.

It may seem surprising, but performance is easily determined by side channel attacks.

[https://www.google.com/search?q=blackhat+side+channel+web+ti...](https://www.google.com/search?q=blackhat+side+channel+web+timing)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> If this is a trend I guess HP wishes it would never have so readily worked with the NSA bugging servers.

</comment><comment><USER24> "[23:06] <ATPtipster> we've gotten Cisco equipment, Supermicro servers, and Seagate hard drives that have been tampered with [by the NSA]"

</comment><comment><USER25> This is one of the faultier parts of having to answer to share holders. Apple is finding it more difficult to justify having their own entire supply chain rather than relying on other companies (i.e. Intel, IBM, Samsung, etc...)

If they didn't make that horrible mistake of their recent multi-billion dollar purchases, they'd have extra billion atleast towards a fab plant.

I'm laughing at Apple right now. Idiots. You Apple board... are stupid.

<comment><USER26> What? Why would they care about a billion dollars? They're sitting on around $200 billion cash.

<comment><USER25> They are seen as throwing away cash, and throwing away 1% of cash holdings is very bad.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> if the NSA is doing this in the US against a US company isn't this illegal?

<comment><USER28> "Legality", in this context, went out the window long ago. Power relentlessly weaponises "legality". Power uses it to attack its enemies and to shield the unethical activities it wishes to protect.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> So Apple is supposed to safeguard our data now? If you really want privacy don't expect big corp to keep it for you.

</comment><comment><USER30> Url changed from [http://daringfireball.net/linked/2016/03/23/apple-data- cente...](http://daringfireball.net/linked/2016/03/23/apple-data-centers), which points to this.

</comment><comment><USER28> Like the FBI vs Apple case, this looks like marketing hype to me. Apple is increasingly selling on "security" they can't deliver.

(I mean, I'm sure they'll try to action something, but we all know security is a compromise not a guarantee).</comment>


People Don't Actually Want Equality, They Want Fairness - <AUTHOR> http://evonomics.com/people-dont-actually-want-equality-want-fairness/ <comment><USER2> As interesting as Frankfurt can be, this semantic quibbling is unhelpful. When most of us progressive types speak out against "economic inequality", we are not saying we want everybody to have equal wealth. The concern is about _rising_ inequality, of increasing wealth concentrated in an increasingly tiny percentage of the population, while millions struggle to get by, often one bad month away from financial ruin.

And yes, of course we care about fairness. There is nothing insightful about presenting it in contradistinction to concerns about inequality, as though it's the thing we are "really" concerned about. Fairness alone does not guarantee a society where the outcome for the unwealthy is tolerable (unless you're John Rawls). Hence, we care about both.

<comment><USER3> The assumption there is because the rich have something the poor must have less. In a monetary economy where bitcoins are mined by running a computer that is of course nonsense.

Its perfectly possible to leave the rich with monetary wealth that they can show off to their friends about while the poor have material sufficiency - which is what they care about because they are more interested in their communities than coin collecting.

The problem is the assumption that there is a one to one relationship between money and stuff. There isn't.

<comment><USER4> Wealth will help the rich win zero-sum games against the poor. The most important zero-sum games being political power and social status and desirable land.

<comment><USER5> I agree with both statements. It's not because a rich person has more, that poor people have less.

If we were to start from scratch and redivide all the wealth in the western world between the people, it wouldn't take long for some individuals to rise to the top again and build up their net worth.

However, with wealth also comes power. There's just so much more you can achieve with good money in the bank. One simple example: a wealthy person with the good lawyer will almost always end up receiving a lighter sentence (if any) in comparison to the poor person with the shitty lawyer (if he even has a lawyer). That is clearly unfair, yet the way it is.

<comment><USER6> > However, with wealth also comes power.

This is certainly true. What's not clear is whether that power can be redistributed equally or if addressing it just leaves a vacuum of power and the risks that entails. More concretely, there hasn't been a form of campaign finance regulations that has actually achieved its goals in the U.S. At least so far.

If the rich couldn't fund their unfair legal teams, would the justice system be more fair? Or would it just give more power to prosecutors who wouldn't have their actions challenged and appealed as often?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I've never thought of "equality" as having identical sized piles of money, and I don't know anyone else who does, nor have I read anyone proposing such a thing, after a very modest amount of study in economics and inequality the US.

The main goal in my mind is equal _opportunity_ , not equal wealth. Equal opportunity may require a minimum amount of wealth, but need not limit the maximum nor require that people have similar amounts.

<comment><USER8> >The main goal in my mind is equal opportunity, not equal wealth.

There are a significant number of people who want to go beyond equality of opportunity. Look at the hiring programs of Google, etc. that attempt to hire larger ratios of minorities than the ratios graduating from CS programs.

<comment><USER7> I would understand this type of affirmative action as an attempt to provide equal opportunity by correcting for the existing inequality of opportunity. The ratios graduating are disproportionate to the general population ratio, and may be a sign of a perceived lack of opportunity. There are advantages to a diverse workplace too, so opportunity aside there are good reasons to prefer diversity over the ratios coming out of school.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> It's a pretty simple concept, people don't like getting screwed by someone else, and equality of outcome is impossible. Frankly, most people don't give a damn how much some actor / CEO / athlete makes if they can pay all their monthly bills and have some money to enjoy themselves. Envy really isn't in the national character until our lives are sucking.

<comment><USER10> > if they can pay all their monthly bills and have some money to enjoy > themselves. Envy really isn't in the national character until our lives are > sucking.

I know a few people that cry poor despite the fact they own a horse, or paid $2,000+ for a child's cubby house, or own a quad bike, or own a jetski.

Low level envy, or "keeping up with the Jones'", is raising the level of what people feel entitled to as basics for "enjoying themselves".

<comment><USER9> Those people have some mental problem. Anytime you combine busybodies with envy you get a bad combination. Not to be confused with people who just suck at managing their own finances because that is a whole different problem.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Interesting article, and Frankfurt's _On Equality_ is on the reading list. I enjoyed _On Bullshit_ after I got through the first section. Certainly in 'water cooler conversations' the feeling that someone else has got a promotion or higher salary without (visible) extra work is deeply resented, even though it has no direct effect on the participants.

What I'm finding in UK at the moment is the lack of a linear response in terms of quality of life to income level. There is a definite 'knee' or threshold. Below that income you have problems, above that income things get easier quickly.

As usual here, my impression is that it comes down to housing costs: we don't have rented accommodation that is small and cheap any more. You can't find somewhere 20% or 30% cheaper below a certain rent level. Not sure if that is the whole story but I think it is a factor.

<comment><USER12> >>As usual here, my impression is that it comes down to housing costs: we don't have rented accommodation that is small and cheap any more

You can, it's always a question of how much you want to sacrifice for it. A friend of mine is renting a room in a 5-bedroom house for 350/month, all bills and council tax included. I pay about 950/month for a 3-bedroom house with a double driveway and a garden. To me, the reduction of utility is not worth the 600/month saving, but it's absolutely not a problem to find a house to rent for 500-600/month, you just have to move further away from the city.

(unless, of course, you are talking about London - then this entire conversation falls apart)

<comment><USER13> that works for people living on their own, but people with families/children can't live in a room in a 5 bedroom house for 350/month. You also presumably can't go any lower than 350/month (which is the 20-30% cutoff the parent mentioned) - 300 quid a month might be nothing to someone who can afford a grand a month, but to someone whose income is 6-7 hundred a month, it's a massive chunk.

There are also costs associated with living outside of a city. If I live 5 miles out of a city, and work in a city, I have to travel there and back every day. Depending on where you live, this can be very cheap or very expensive. Public transport as a method of commuting is also not suitable for many people (in particular the people who would be affected by low wages who work awkward shifts). The alternative I assume is car ownership, which is definitely not cheap, and if you are driving into a city is probably going to cost you more in parking than you'll save in rent.

<comment><USER14> _but people with families /children can't live in a room in a 5 bedroom house for 350/month_

You can, and people do all the time. People live in slums with 7 kids in a corrugated sheet metal shack the size of a garden shed with sewage flowing past their front door.

So then, what is the difference with a country like England? People are _not allowed_ to live in such conditions. This is not the same thing as _can 't_. We set minimum standards of living because we don't like the idea of people living in squalor. We rarely give a thought to the adverse consequences of such policies. A family that might have been able to afford a tiny apartment is instead forced into the street to fend for themselves.

<comment><USER11> I'm not advocating a return to conditions that I have a dim recollection of (I am _just_ old enough to remember my parents having an inside toilet fitted and Jack Frost on the windows looked lovely to the 7 year old me but the 60 year old me really likes his central heating thankyouverymuch). However, I _think_ there is a case for some _careful relaxation_ on what kind of buildings can be used for housing. Still regulations, but allowing (say) bedsits for single people &c

No return to slum landlords, they weren't cheap mind you but often very expensive.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Since current systems do not provide anything resembling equality of opportunity and fairness a lot of the narrative is made up and propaganda. We must recognize the system for what it is and not what it claims to be.

Children brought up in less privileged environments cannot compete with those born in privilege. Cherry picking exceptions by those in privilege to make a point is extraordinarily exploitative and self serving.

Because exceptions usually cannot see any truth beyond their exceptionalism as a core value their narrative is often self-grandiose and are ripe picking for entrenched interests to pass off exception as rule.

Just like blacks who did not have rights till 1965 and land and thus no opportunity to truly build generations of wealth cannot be expected to compete with their white counterparts who have had generations of wealth creating background. If you then claim wealth is not important for equal outcomes then the logical response is let's take it away.

The ones lecturing loudest about equality are those who start a 100m race at 90m. For the privileged the world always seems fair. And others simply do not recognize all the things that had to come together to get them where they are.

The elephant in the room is inheritance. And I am certain all the loud uncompromising advocates for the 'best should win' would not mind a systemic reset for children every generation so the truly best ones can shine irrespective of background, but of course not. We have never seen any initiative to make this so. This is the nod nod wink wink part of capitalism. We all allow and gloss over these cracks in our worldview.

</comment><comment><USER16> If people respect pay for work, then they despise the opposite, including wealth earning income for no work. That saidd...

This is consistent with believing owning less wealth is better than owning more wealth. Then that justifies groups with less wealth as better than groups with more wealth because they earn less income without work. Which then means the gender gap, racial gap, poor social immobility, etc are thus _preferable_ because they imply not getting as much undeserved income. Only the belief that income without work is a priori bad forces this conclusion. The idea "compensating individuals honestly for their work produces a sufficiently fair world" isn't consistent with wanting to produce a fairer world. [0]

[0] [http://mattbruenig.com/2017/07/22/some-opponents-of-ubi- nece...](http://mattbruenig.com/2017/07/22/some-opponents-of-ubi-necessarily- believe-the-racial-wealth-gap-is-good/)

<comment><USER9> > If people respect pay for work, then they despise the opposite, including > wealth earning income for no work.

That logic doesn't follow. Respecting something doesn't always require despising it's opposite. Plenty of hard workers hope for wealth earning with no work for themselves, check the local lottery.

<comment><USER16> I apologise that despise was a little harsh for what I was hurriedly trying to say but the very uncompressed idea is that IF the belief "a man's hard work alone determines my respect of them" is a fairly common justification of income from work AND income without work exists THEN people earning income without work goes very much against that belief that only hard work earns approval. The 'respect' part was intended to mean 'respect exclusively' like as might be exemplified in the particularly intense conviction some might have against 'lazy poor people living handouts', as well as the rich living off of capital gains. This black-and-white perspective belongs a fairly vocal minority.

Although people who sanctify work do elevate it to a question of toil, why wouldn't gambling (of any kind) just be a really expensive (albeit fairly toil-free) side-gig? No matter how different their hopes are from what is statistically likely, nor compelling the possibility that the lottery ticket could actually be a kind of masquerading windfall, the thinking isn't "this is my investment vehicle" but more "if I 'try hard enough' [by buying enough to win] I will eventually succeed."

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> A contrary Idea:

People need society to be unfair, not to blame thenselves for their lack of success.

Especially in times of self-exploitation (or optimization) I find it an interesting perspective.

<comment><USER18> "I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, 'wouldn't it be much worse if life _were_ fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them?' So now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe."

-Marcus Cole, Babylon 5

<comment><USER19> Well, free will is an illusion and the world is pretty much deterministic on the large scale, so the concept of "deserving something" would itself not be fair to begin with.

<comment><USER17> But the illusion is trong enough and you could just reframe this problem avoiding the free-will problematic.

Someone who puts all his energy in to getting somewhere should be able to get there (within the reasonable). No matter the underlying origin of his motives or circumstances.

I still see your point though, but I'd say that's a further step: to acknowledge that nobody should be held responsible for himself. (EU-law is a bit further here than the US though, no retaliation by law like the death penalty)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Something that came to mind in this article is that when children were concerned with fair distribution, it was with regard to two other people. When younger children were shown to be more willing to give themselves more while others got less, it was with regards to themselves. Makes me wonder how much self involvement affects these types of attitudes. It wouldn't be surprising, to me, if people are generally satisfied with inequality when they themselves are the ones with more.

</comment><comment><USER21> In Australia this concept is widely recognised as 'fair go'.

</comment><comment><USER22> Well, in most cases those two simply cannot be separated though. If you have a hugely influential elite class they'll naturally skew the fairness of the society so that they keep their benefits the most.

</comment><comment><USER23> Please link to original article: [https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2015/10/people-d...](https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2015/10/people- dont-actually-want-equality/411784/)

</comment><comment><USER24> Monkeys want fairness too - I stuck up an amusing edit of Frans de Waal demoing that which got 400k views to my surprise [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dMoK48QGL8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dMoK48QGL8)

</comment><comment><USER25> With all the discussion of meritocracy and how it doesn't actually exist, at most I can believe _some_ people want fairness.

</comment><comment><USER26> If you value equality for its own sake, you're likely a computer scientist or mathematician.

</comment><comment><USER27> Fairness is super subjective, so in reality people just want preferential treatment.

</comment><comment><USER28> They don't want fairness either, they want "fairness".

The difference between fairness and "fairness" is that "fairness" works out a little better for people like yourself than fairness does.

<comment><USER29> > "fairness" works out a little better for people like yourself than fairness > does.

Because the CEO of a company fairly worked 100-300 times harder than the person on the packing line?

<comment><USER30> Maybe gp worked really hard on that comment; should you really criticize it?</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Are there developers that work remotely that use a single language? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> I work remotely and I only read and write English.

</comment><comment><USER3> By language you mean like PHP or Ruby or C++ or something like that?

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, I meant programming language, but the title restricts us up to 80 characters.

Apologies for not being obvious in the first place.</comment></comment>


$1 of every $5 in US wallets in 2010 came from programs like unemployment & SS - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/11/business/economy/as-government-aid-fades-so-may-the-recovery.html?_r=2 <comment><USER2> Well as I said when Northern Rock collapsed, the best financial stimulus would be to refund everyone the income tax they paid for the last 12 months.

<comment><USER3> What exactly does that do for the people who've been out of work? 100% rebate on 0 is still 0, right?

Not to make a political statement out of things but you're saying you'd prefer they didn't get their unemployment, giving that money back to me and you as tax rebates instead? Trying to see how your suggestion is relevant to the article.

<comment><USER2> In this scenario, anyone who'd just lost their job would have a lump sum of 40% of their previous salary, _plus_ whatever entitlements they had for unemployment. Anyone still in a job would have that cash to either pay down their debts or to spend on goods and services that would sustain/create more jobs. It's a win/win scenario.

<comment><USER4> Sounds like a fine idea to me, but not very stimulative. More money would be returned to high income individuals who are more likely to hold onto the extra cash.

I'd personally rather it go to infrastructure projects -- faster cheaper internet access, high speed rail, space elevators ;) -- and basic research.

<comment><USER5> "hold on to extra cash" is intuitive but it is not how our economy works. Anyone saving money has that money circulated into the economy, through stocks, bonds, or bank lending. In fact, it is the wealthy who have the surplus capital available to invest in ventures like those you mention. It is extremely stimulative.

<comment><USER4> I guess we should define "stimulative." I was talking about it in a job- creation sense.

Yes, wealthy individuals will put the money into stocks, bonds, or bank accounts - not under the mattress. But public companies' market cap rising a bit has a much less direct effect on jobs than creation of demand for local goods and services. Putting extra cash in a bank account is even worse -- a much simpler way of getting banks to lend is to reduce the prime rate, not to increase the savings rate.

<comment><USER6> Oh my I'm afraid your understanding of economics is very poor. Infrastructure funding can only come from tax money. Tax money can only come from the private sector. The private sector makes by money by using capital (savings). That is how it works. That is why savings are good and taxes are bad.

<comment><USER7> If his understanding of economics is poor, yours is even worse. All he saying is you get a better multiplier by giving it to people who will spend the money first on goods and services then on people who will put it directly into savings. And he's right, which should be obvious.

<comment><USER6> That is not true. That is redistribution wealth. You are taking the money away from the people are are making and giving to the people that are spending it. That makes no sense. Savings is what drives the economy. Without savings there would be no capital. omg.

Please tell me where this multiplier comes from? If money was multiplied through taxes the USSR would still be around and booming as they had an effective tax rate of 100%. So do tell please.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> How many dollars in wallets came from programs like the Department of Defense and the TSA? And how many came from programs related to research and teaching?

</comment><comment><USER9> so is this why my $10 only has $8 of buying power?

</comment><comment><USER10> So liquid cash, not assets, not investments? Seems pretty good to me, during a terrible recession.

<comment><USER11> Actually the article is talking about income. The current HN title is wrong. According to the linked article:

"Close to $2 of every $10 that went into Americans' wallets last year were payments like jobless benefits, food stamps, Social Security and disability, according to an analysis by Moody's Analytics."

I do wonder what the figure would be for actual assets. Surely much lower than 20%, but I guess that would be hard to even calculate.

<comment><AUTHOR> I tried to use: Close to $2 of every $10 that went into Americans' wallets last year were payments like jobless benefits, food stamps, Social Security and disability

But it was still way too long, so I had edit the title down to fit it in.

<comment><USER11> I don't know, maybe "20% of 2010 U.S. income came from..."?

I don't have editing powers, though.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> With a growing poor population via the influx of immigrants getting out of our financial crisis will be an even slower process. This population is the 2nd largest and the fastest growing. They currently have minimal buying power. Case in point go to your local state park and witness America's future. The face of America in 30 to 50 years and the language we speak will be remarkably different.

Im sure this will be downvoted as it's totally NOT POLITICALLY CORRECT. But for me Im all about assimilation vs a massive population changing American culture. We are a melting pot and that's great but one who speaks English.

I dont view myself as a racist(im sure this sounds otherwise) ... but if you go to one of your local US state parks you just might get the slap in the face I did(i live in PA). Again this new culture currently has no buying power just sucking off our systems and it will be years before they have buying power as a population to help our economy.

<comment><USER13> _as a population_

Racism is a form of collectivism, and that phrase is indisputably collectivist: <http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/racism.html>

I agree that America should be a melting pot once again, but if you're going to champion American culture consistently, you must wipe collectivist ideas from your mind. We are all individuals, independent from one another, and we must be judged and thought of individually.

Edit: to those that voted this down, why?

<comment><USER14> I'm not one of the downvoters, but my guess:

1\. It's really irrelevant political squabbling. It's annoying, but even worse, that kind of sidetrack can _ruin_ sites by bringing in people who seek nothing more than to argue. I've seen it on other sites. Probably a lot of people want to avoid that kind of slide.

2\. Your apparent argument is illogical. "Racism is a form of collectivism, and that phrase is indisputably collectivist [and thus that phrase is probably racist]" reduces to "X is a form of Y, and Z is indisputably Y [and thus Z is probably X]," which can be substituted with "A murderer is a form of human, and you are indisputably human [and thus you are probably a murderer]." And if you didn't mean to imply that the phrase was tinged with racism because it was collectivist, then it's an irrelevant reference to Ayn Rand, and many people find Ayn Rand references annoying enough when they're on topic. It doesn't demonstrate anything either way.

<comment><USER13> "and many people find Ayn Rand references annoying enough when they're on topic"

That doesn't mean they should vote it down. It's a legitimate point of view. It's mainstream enough to the point that her views are now taught in major universities. We're not going away.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> The article says "Close to $2 of every $10". No need to editorialize it.

<comment><USER16> God forbid anyone reduce a fraction!

<comment><USER17> The fraction reduction seems inflationary.

<comment><USER18> Reading this thread you'd think the difference between 20% and 19% is as great as life and death.

<comment><USER15> you're right, it's probably only a couple billion dollars.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


MakeSpace – Virtual Spatial Chat - <AUTHOR> https://makespace.fun/ <comment><USER2> Super cool! Having spent so much time in Meet in the last months really makes me think about the future. We should have technology that outperforms face to face meetings, rather than just getting as close as possible to the "real thing". Why can't I do the following:

\- see who's who (bio)

\- have pre-determined roles in the meeting (Mary is here as technical specialist on x.y.z.)

\- have a set goal, agenda and timers per section

\- have a feedback form after/during the meeting

\- have stats about the meeting (who was actively participating, maybe via gaze tracking or seeing whether the tab is in view). We're they speaking aggressively, friendly, etc.

\- give automatic feedback about your own sound quality (hey, you should really invest in a good headset)

\- allow in-system meeting notes, such as decisions made and actions to be taken. Maybe even automatic?

\- have voting / polls

\- give audible feedback (claps) rather than the wall of mute icons

\- have a button to add participants to the call if they are late (it would call their phone, pull rather than push).

\- sub-rooms and spatial audio are also a great idea

But no, instead we get virtual backgrounds and the never ending "sorry, I was on mute".

My prediction: In 5 years, online meetings will be so much better than they are today.

<comment><USER3> > \- have stats about the meeting (who was actively participating, maybe via > gaze tracking or seeing whether the tab is in view). We're they speaking > aggressively, friendly, etc.

This is one's dangerous. I'm actually finding it hard to think of a use case for this where it isn't abusive and oppressive.

<comment><USER2> Here's one: If you see high disengagement, you know you have to improve as an organizer or that the person should not have been invited.

<comment><USER3> The context for my point is that we already have authoritarian countries (i.e China, Russia) already using the internet for mass surveillance (and selling the technology to other countries), we have Trump (who has to be considered at least a quasi-authoritarian at this point) purging civil servant who are insufficiently loyal to him.

And these are not power that will have intrinsic knowledge or care about things we may understand intuitively: the error rate of a prediction model, false positives/negatives in classification, the difficulty of producing a reliable model of human emotion, how easy it is to build bias into a ML model, etc.

<comment><USER2> Agreed, the feature could be used for bad purposes. Does that mean we shouldn't build it? That's a tough question.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Is this an idea or a product? The site is wordy, dense and has no link to a download. I can't find a release date, pricing, a business model -- anything worthwhile except very fancy mockups.

</comment><comment><USER5> The same thing as [https://spatial.chat/](https://spatial.chat/)?

<comment><USER6> Also [https://www.highfidelity.com/](https://www.highfidelity.com/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Looks interesting. Been trying out spatial.io that does feel like where this is heading. You hear people differently dependkng where they are in the virtual room - like you would in the real world - also when avatars got close to each other it felt awkward (in a cool way).

<comment><USER8> That doesn't sound terribly difficult to do with 2 channel audio and a handful of participants. I imagine you just assign each person a location around a circle and do the 2-1/2 D sound mixing, eh? Why don't current group conference things do this out of the box?

[https://ask.audio/articles/creating-a-3d-mix-with-two- speake...](https://ask.audio/articles/creating-a-3d-mix-with-two-speakers)

<comment><USER6> It's a somewhat limited approach. For more convincing positional audio you can use a HRTF; [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head- related_transfer_function](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head- related_transfer_function)

Example: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDTlvagjJA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDTlvagjJA)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> It was surprising to find Aza Raskin involved in the project, but it seems they are not really after users at this point given the whole complicated Get Involved thing. Very nice and interesting landing page though, I would love to use it right now!

</comment><comment><USER10> Looks so awesome. The spatial audio feature would be a game changer if implemented correctly. The hold caps lock to broadcast your voice globally seems like a super power that should be limited to the admin or something though :O

</comment><comment><USER11> Is this less a videoconferencing system, and more of a first draft of a shared multiuser (and given Aza Raskin's previous tech demos, hopefully also multiscale/zoomable) desktop environment with videoconferencing built in? Because that would be super cool.

</comment><comment><USER12> Really liked the idea of the "room" metaphor over using mute buttons. Also using the CAPS to broadcast your voice at full volume to get attention (a feature best reserved for respectful teams).

</comment><comment><USER13> I loveee the concept of drawing rooms with a mouse to enable spontaneous conversations. the site is incredibly wordy and doesn't drive a CTA, but that is really nice. when can I use it?

<comment><USER14> No everything on the internet needs to be about pixel trackers, A/B testing, micromanipulating users, conversion rates, ARPU, analytics and all that boohoo. Can we just pause for a second and be honest with our users? May be respect them? Try to make insanely great products that people have no other option than to _fall in love_ with them?

In fact, I want to go to sites that don't lie to me and backstab me, treat me like some kinda of a ephemeral datapoint consuming their giant wad of VC cash.

I call these people sales-assholes or salesholes.

<comment><USER15> A/B testing is in fact often used to make insanely great product, how would you otherwise know what your users actually want

<comment><USER14> Perhaps understanding the problem deeply, thoroughly and putting yourself in the shoes of the customer insteading throwing a bunch of semi-random iterations over the fence and squeezing every last bit of data from the customer's private behavior?

Imagine if I buy tomatoes from the grocery store, but they run an A/B testing on me to see what the customer wants - may be I prefer the 85% ripe ones over 95% ripe ones, the farmers watch the reaction of their users as they cook and taste tomatoes in a live video stream from their customer's home. WTF, get out of my house (browser). It is my private property. I just want a goddamn tomato (send an email or post a photo or read news).

What happened to user's privacy? That last mile optimization is bothering me as a user.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> We are developing a similar idea, but in 3D instead of 2d [https://laptopsinspace.de](https://laptopsinspace.de)

(No mobile support yet)

<comment><USER17> This is super cool, though I get stuck on "waiting" after giving the website access to the camera and mic (and reloading)

<comment><USER16> that normally only happens if your webcam is already in use, but we surely need better user feedback for that... I'd be happy to trouble shoot it with you on twitter, dm me at @neeshstudio

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Resembles trember.me/video/

<comment><USER19> Yeah, know this one too. Easy to gather people there. They keep on adding features.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> How's the performance?

I'd love to use it, but I'm afraid my low-end MBP will turn its fans to 1000%</comment>


iPhone Uber-Hacker Comex Is Out At Apple - <AUTHOR> http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/10/18/iphone-uber-hacker-comex-is-out-at-apple/

<comment><USER2> Rewording of [http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/10/18/iphone-...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/10/18/iphone- uber-hacker-comex-is-out-at-apple/)

</comment><comment><USER3> Breaking news: 20 year-old is irresponsible. Loses job. More at 11.

</comment><comment><USER4> So does this mean a jailbreak for iPhone 5 will be coming soon?

<comment><USER5> No, his employment contract establishes that he has been exposed Apple trade secrets and is thus legally forever prohibited from jailbreaking. Hiring him for a few months to get him to sign this and then firing him over the first thing they could, and now having him beholden to a contract in which he agrees never to jailbreak was much cheaper than suing him for jailbreaking and likely losing in court. When he was hired I had predicted this would happen and it did since it's all a rather logical thing for Apple (or any company) to do in such a situation.

<comment><USER4> Maybe there will be a new anonymous jail-breaker on the scene?</comment></comment></comment>


Trying to find part time eng work - <AUTHOR> Hi HN!
I'm a full stack web dev from Ireland and I'm based in the Bay Area. I recently left my job at a startup and I need to find part time work (21 hours per week) to satisfy my OPT visa.
I have 3 years experience building web apps (Rails & Django) and some experience managing a small group of engineers.
I'd appreciate any help/advice you have for me to find work. <comment><USER2> I'm been, unsuccessfully, trying to do the same so I can scale back my work commitments and refocus on some personal/academic goals. Job boards and recruiting doesn't seem to be helpful in this regard; you'll get plenty of bits but part time turns everyone off. I've spoken to some of my colleagues and they think the best bet is establishing yourself as a contractor. This however has quite a bit of associated legwork and I'm not sure how that will fly with your work requirements.

As a more general question to HN, what's with all the apprehension to part time work in tech? I remember a time where everyone loved the idea. Or maybe I was more fortunate than I realized.

<comment><USER3> I've hired a decent number of engineers for a few different companies, so I'll take a stab at this based on what I've seen.

\- Fixed costs for hiring for PT and FT are the same, but the company gets more output for FT, so they focus on that

\- Similarly, external recruiters who take a % of salary get paid much less for the same amount of work, so you're not worth it to them

\- Fragile processes require lots of interaction. Having someone unavailable slows down the team

\- PT employees are perceived as less committed. Enough ink has been spilled about companies wanting dedicated people, so I'll leave that one alone

<comment><USER2> This is in line with what I hear but there are a whole host of lowered costs as well that are often overlooked in these types of breakdowns. Most notably, equipment costs, benefits, and space reuse. Especially for places that are not fully established I would have thought such trade-offs would be very enticing.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> 1\. Talk to former colleagues and friends; much more likely to hire you for shorter period since they already know you.

2\. If you're willing to go for more like 32-30 hours, you can apply to normal jobs, then ask for shorter workweek once you get offer ([https://codewithoutrules.com/2019/01/25/4-day-workweek- easy-...](https://codewithoutrules.com/2019/01/25/4-day-workweek-easy-way/)).

3\. Staff augmentation / contracting is another option. E.g. via companies like [https://www.randstadusa.com/](https://www.randstadusa.com/). In some cases staffing company will hire you as employee to make things legally easier for the company you're actually working for.

</comment><comment><USER5> If gig work is acceptable, this list might help:

[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JfNAbUX_lN9K3MCNHO15...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JfNAbUX_lN9K3MCNHO15GJtJ5qpk7H9Cl3xTBwv2FR8/htmlview)</comment>


Giving up beef is a key to global stability - <AUTHOR> https://www.greenism.com/giving-up-beef-is-the-key-to-global-stability/ <comment><USER2> Is this composed by the poultry lobby?</comment>


Samsung ends mobile phone production in China - <AUTHOR> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-samsung-elec-china/samsung-ends-mobile-phone-production-in-china-idUSKBN1WH0LR <comment><USER2> Samsung already makes most of their phones in Vietnam. Not a huge difference, other than the lack of tariffs.

[https://www.economist.com/asia/2018/04/12/why-samsung-of- sou...](https://www.economist.com/asia/2018/04/12/why-samsung-of-south-korea- is-the-biggest-firm-in-vietnam)

<comment><USER3> I wonder why more producers haven't made this move? If Vietnam is there as far as infrastructure goes and they have the skilled/unskilled labor why is this not a more popular move.

Also when we say "make" I assume we mean "assembles".

Somewhat anecdotally I recently purchased a laptop and tried to find one that _wasn 't_ made in China and it was nigh on impossible.

<comment><USER2> I'm a tech expat living in Vietnam (from Bay Area) for the last 4 years. This is a really loaded question. You have to look into the politics of the VN govt, especially related to the fact that it is on the northern end of VN, closer to Hanoi... which has different politics than in the south.

I've been to Hai Phong, which is the city in the north near the China border where most of this commerce happens. It is fascinating to see how big the houses are there. If you drive along the road to the airport it is literally filled with old men riding their nice shiny new bicycles and exercising by the side of the road.

The tariffs definitely have people looking into Vietnam a lot more. I've driven (motorbike) the dirt backroads near the Chinese border where there is nothing but trees and mountains. There are literally trucks brining goods into and out of Vietnam (illegally) on hastily constructed dirt roads. You can see it in google maps even. I've seen how people have strung cables over rivers between China and Vietnam to ferry goods back and forth. So yea... it is happening, it just isn't hitting the news much. It is also happening in Cambodia and Laos. Look into the roads China is building and how Sihanouk is a literal Chinese eco disaster.

Fascinating times...

<comment><USER4> You can pay something like 50 RMB for them to motorbike you through the jungles into Cambodia or Loas (illegally) without any questions asked.

There are also illegal but protected casinos near the Vietnam-China border entry, that only allow in Chinese nationals.

<comment><USER2> I did it myself. Even stood on the literal border of Vietnam and China. ;-) That is China in the distance and VN is building a wall of some sort. The road that you see is filled with trucks carrying stuff. Last picture is one of the dirt border backroads I was driving on... pretty epic trip.

I also drove into Laos near the north side and all through it as well. The amount of Chinese influence in Laos is overwhelming.

[https://imgur.com/a/WGWv9kr](https://imgur.com/a/WGWv9kr)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Note - Vietnam has an FTA with India (unlike China), and so this also helps it fight back against Chinese smartphone players that are currently dominating in India AND it also works as a bargaining chip with the Indian govt. for tax incentives. IIRC they moved their television assembly back to Vietnam in retaliation for some failed deal last year.

Might be a good idea too, the Indian state is a moronic rent-seeking state whose sole purpose it'd often appear is to run a leaky incompetent "welfare state" simply in order to support of its political masters.

<comment><USER6> They have 1 billion people, they are a market who can do whatever they like, in their own right.

<comment><USER7> Debatable. Money is just as important and right now India's GDP is comparable to UK's GDP. And the UK only has about 65 million people.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> If you are interested, here are some background articles about Apple's assembly plant in Zhengzhou, China [https://www.scmp.com/economy/china- economy/article/2188162/f...](https://www.scmp.com/economy/china- economy/article/2188162/foxconn-tale-slashed-salaries-disappearing-benefits- and-mass) [https://www.businessinsider.com.au/apple-iphone-factory- foxc...](https://www.businessinsider.com.au/apple-iphone-factory-foxconn- china-photos-tour-2018-5?r=US&IR=T) [https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/29/technology/apple- iphone-c...](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/29/technology/apple-iphone-china- foxconn.html)

Why my interest? I taught Maths (in English) in Zhengzhou for a couple of years and constantly wondered where my students could find employment, so I recently searched online and found these articles about the iPhone assembly plant there. Some things I learnt: assembling iPhones is boringly repetitive, basically just install the same one screw all day, so workers only last about a year; the impetus came from Terry Gou, the Taiwanese billionaire founder of Foxconn; and, in the past, to be purchased by the Chinese, such "foreign goods" had to be shipped to Hong Kong, then turned around and imported back into China, whereas Foxconn negotiated virtual export/import at the touch of a button. The iPhone story, by putting my former Zhengzhou students in the "centre" of the US, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong tensions, made those tensions more "engaging" for me.

And yes, I am concerned about the plight of the Uighurs. I think the repression of that group is directly linked to the 2014 knife killings at Kunming railway station, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack). Immediately after that attack, metal detecters were set up at railway stations in Zhengzhou. And I noticed some Muslim businesses disappearing from the streets.

<comment><USER9> This was originally a reply to [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21143687](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21143687).

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Didn't China encourage consumer boycotts of South Korean products after South Korea agreed to put an anti-ballistic missile system into place on their soil?

Samsung very quickly went from a popular product with consumers to an also ran.

It seems odd to ignore this as a factor in Samsung's decision making.

<comment><USER11> Overall, the rise of domestically-made Android phones are probably the biggest reason of their demise. But if we have to point at one specific instance, arguably it's the Note 7 debacle. Samsung completely mishandled the situation - they refused to recall the devices in China despite doing so in other countries, and when some customers posted pictures of their burned phone, Samsung threatened them. And of course consumers voted with their wallet, and nowadays it's rare to see Samsung phones in China.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> "Rising labor costs", what happens in the future when the world is fully developed and these co's run out of developing countries with cheap labor to exploit?

<comment><USER13> By exploit, do you mean offering them jobs that pay higher than local average? Or that developing countries have weaker institutions for labor laws?

<comment><USER14> Not OP, but probably just the dictionary definition of the word "exploit", to use a resource for one's own benefit. If there are business models that cannot function without this particular resource, what will become of them?

They aren't paying "higher than local average" out of the goodness of their hearts. If they were, shareholders wouldn't be too happy.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Apple should too

<comment><USER16> Apple just recently announced their making macbooks in texas, perhaps its a start. Even mexico could be a good place because prosperity there helps the US as well.

<comment><USER17> Not macbooks, mac pros - a much smaller market by unit size, with a much greater markup, so much easier to move to the US than most of their other products.

<comment><USER18> And they were already manufacturing the previous generation of Mac Pro there since its introduction at the end of 2013. Presumably they will continue to use Flextronics for their American manufacturing of the new Mac Pro. Also, as far as I can tell, this American manufacturing and assembly relies on automation to an extreme extent.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Maybe this is a stupid/naive question but why doesn't Samsung make their phones in Korea?

<comment><USER20> Why doesn't Apple make their phones in the USA?

<comment><USER21> Labor costs, unions, and ..well..it's just not profitable for them. Apple is in business to make money, by any means necessary. Helping the American economy and labor force is not a priority.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> In addition to tariffs, they were effectively training their competitors in China. Manufacturing in China just accelerates the rate of IP theft.

<comment><USER23> Isn't that how Samsung grew during the 90s?

Japanese companies outsourced to them, and basically trained their competitors.

Manufacturing in Korea during the 90s just accelerated the rate of IP theft.

It was like that in Japan during the 80s too.

I wonder which country will be after China.

<comment><USER22> This reeks of whataboutism. IP theft is problematic and nobody has ever engaged in it to the extent that China has. The Chinese intelligence apparatus is actively engaged in IP theft as well.

<comment><USER24> The entire US Industrial Revolution was kicked off by Francis Cabot Lowell stealing the designs of British power looms. Alexander Hamilton, as treasury secretary, adopted an actual policy of stealing technology and sent spies to Britain as well.

This is how it works. Countries without technology steal it from those that do. It's basically a market force- if you don't make it available at something approaching a reasonable cost then it will be duplicated through research or just directly stolen.

<comment><USER25> Context:

The two countries were still enemies at the time and on the verge of war. If I recall my history correctly, the trade routes collapsed when Britain stopped selling America textiles, stopped buying American cotton and then tried to blockade the entire country.

Yes stealing the loom filled a void in the American market, but in this case Britain isn't exactly blameless.

It wasn't really the same market forces that we see today, unless I'm missing something. China's not stealing IP to fill any market void.

<comment><USER26> [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enercon](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enercon)

See Patent Dispute.

I'm not saying US does this as much as China. It would be hard as US is the tech leader in many fields.

But whenever US is not a tech leader they happily engage in government sanctioned industrial espionage (Not Officially Officially sanctioned but wink and nod whoopsie kind of). Thus the complaints about what China is doing ring hollow.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Reading this site on iPad and chrome activates an ad/dialog that sends me to luckyguys-dot-top, which locks my iPad in a never-ending series of "Congrats lucky iPad user!" dialog boxes.

<comment><USER9> Ok, we switched to Reuters from [https://www.anandtech.com/show/14930/samsung- stops-productio...](https://www.anandtech.com/show/14930/samsung-stops- production-of-phones-in-china).

<comment><USER28> Dang, this is the second time today an Anandtech article has been causing ad issues. I commented earlier about it happening to me but on a different article.

<comment><USER29> That happened to me as well. I was worried I had a virus or something. Glad to know it's not me.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> China can do without Samsung phones, the market is a political stake against Samsung and Korea, but their OLED and RAM are needed there, at least for now.

<comment><USER30> It doesn't matter if China doesn't need the phones. The phones were made there for other markets...

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> Not even President Trump can make Apple do that

<comment><USER15> Apple should do it because it's morally right.

<comment><USER32> Why?

<comment><USER33> I'll try it without citations :)

Because China is an authoritarian regime that imprisons, and sometimes kills, people for their opinions.

Because China systematically destroyed one of the oldest and most peaceful cultures the world has ever seen in Tibet.

Because China put 100's of 1000's of Muslims in concentration camps. A program which is still happening by all (non Chinese government) accounts.

And so on.

Not that Apple makes decisions based on moral considerations.

<comment><USER34> Beyond your last point on concentration camp, the US isn't a shining example of "imprisons, and sometimes kills," and "systematically destroyed peaceful cultures" either.

And the bail system where poor people can be held for not having money to post bail is akin to decentralized concentration camps around the country. That you can say is a stretch, but you get the point.

<comment><USER35> "Only the US is allowed to mistreat Muslims and only when the Muslims are foreigners" is a thermonuclear take of mine that I mostly keep to myself, because it doesn't really help anybody and just makes people mad, and because (most importantly imo) _two things can be bad at the same time_.

<comment><USER36> The big difference between the situation in Xinjiang and the US's treatment of Muslims and illegal immigrants, IMO, is China's censorship of any opposition to the government's actions. Prominent politicians and members of the media openly criticize and report on the US's unethical actions - any such speech in China is strictly controlled and punished.

<comment><USER35> >The big difference between the situation in Xinjiang and the US's treatment of Muslims and illegal immigrants, IMO, is China's censorship of any opposition to the government's actions.

Sure. And the Chinese govt's surveillance apparatus is that much scarier for operating in such (relatively) plain sight. We are getting into actual specifics now, which is not the purpose of the thermonuclear take I posted above. As I said, two things can be bad at the same time. It seems I'm better- informed than the average person about the various Badnesses of the Chinese government, but that probably says more about the people I hang out with than anything else. That said, the sudden uptick in the last few months of China- as-boogeyman in media and the conversation of Westerners has me watching with a kind of sick fascination.

I save the thermonuclear take for when someone appears essentially misinformed and is just repeating whatever Bloomberg article they read last. Spratly Islands? Meh, it's called the South China Sea for a reason.

Sometimes you just want to hit the big red launch button and point out that in fact, the Chinese and US governments can probably find some common ground. Where? Well, in their prolific torturing, maiming, and murdering of innocent Muslims over the last decade or two... ^^;

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> We need to distant cellar business from China, expect their Government to spy and others to steal.

</comment><comment><USER38> Samsung has lost the Chinese market. It's all Apple, Huawei, and the other Chinese brands.

This what this piece of news highlights, really.</comment>


Summus: Basic compiler front end using LLVM as back end - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/igor84/summus <comment><USER2> 'A basic compiler...' not a 'BASIC' compiler!

<comment><USER3> Good catch :). Changed description to "Simple compiler..."</comment></comment>


Is YCombinator News the new DIGG?  (i think so) - <AUTHOR>

<comment><USER2> <http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=8301>

This is on the same sort of topic. PG isn't looking to make it a DIGG but to stick to the startup crowd.

</comment><comment><USER3> Somehow I don't see YSN devolving into 'check out this r0x0r pic that will change your life' type of submissions. Thats probably because it appeals to a comparitively narrow demographic.

</comment><comment><USER4> God, I hope not.

</comment><comment><USER5> I hope not.</comment>


Ask HN: What is better than TypeScript - <AUTHOR> Is there any compile-to-javascript language that is overall better than TypeScript in terms of type strictness and has reasonably good tooling? <comment><USER2> Yeah, BuckleScript (and ReasonML if you prefer your OCaml with a JavaScript- like syntax). OCaml's type system is sound, unlike TypeScript's. This means you have a guarantee that (with a couple of known exceptions), typechecked code will not give you runtime type errors.

</comment><comment><USER3> TypeScript is quite a bit ahead of everything else when you add up its good design, good typing, good tooling, and large community.

But if you are looking for alternatives, check out flow. [https://flow.org](https://flow.org)</comment>


WebGL Tutorials - <AUTHOR> http://learningwebgl.com/blog/?page_id=1217

<comment><USER2> That you don't see a crate until lesson 6 must mean Old Man Murry's Crate Review System has to apply to this in some sense.</comment>


The Corrosive Downside of Acquihires - <AUTHOR> http://www.bothsidesofthetable.com/2013/05/13/the-corrosive-downside-of-acquihires

<comment><USER2> How profitable is the typical acquihire for founders? This article cites $5-15 million exits but I've also read about circumstances where the purpose of the acquihire is largely to get the VCs something greater than zero for their investment and for the founders to save face.

Is it really common for founders to walk out of an acquihire with millions in the bank, as this article suggests? If founders can walk away with millions for just competently attempting entrepreneurship then there is little doubt the incentives are misaligned. But if founders earn little to nothing and VCs get some cash returned to their funds, it's a more reasonable exit.

<comment><AUTHOR> That entirely depends on how much VC money they took</comment></comment>


Windows Mobile 7 Series - <AUTHOR> http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/15/windows-phone-7-series-is-official-and-microsoft-is-playing-to/ <comment><USER4> The UI makes both the iPhone and Android look incredibly dated. I have a few questions about discoverability and usage in practice and it looks a tad laggy in places, but on the whole it looks very nice.

The downsides are that it shares many of the problems with the iPhone - <USER3> lack of multitasking, no Flash, and I bet it requires iTu--the Zune Software. There's also unknowns on WM7 as a development platform, and whether it requires you to use the App St--Windows Mobile Marketplace. That said, from what has currently been shown I think the good massively outweighs the bad.

One feature I'm particularly happy to see is Wi-Fi Sync. I hope this gives Apple the kick up the backside they need to include it in the iPhone.

<comment><USER5> That's a really interesting interface... my first impression is that it looks really cool. Finally someone is _not_ cloning iPhone.

One thing that is interesting is the comparison between (Mac, iPhone) and (Windows, Windows Mobile). On the Mac, it's unusual to have a window maximised, but on the iPhone that's the only mode of operation. On Windows, it's unusual to have more than one window on screen at a time, but WinMo7 seems to have completely abandoned the concept of windows. Interesting...

<comment><USER6> I'm going to second this, in a way. Some parts of this look nicer than my iPhone (e.g. bringing up a list of letters to skip around in your contacts), and the entire interface is their own creation (i.e. they're not aping Apple or Android in the visual style).

The contacts thing I don't know how practical it would be (it interrupts the flow of skipping to a contact vs. the iPhone's index sidebar), and I don't like the interface (compared to the Pre or the iPhone), but I have to give them credit for being original at least.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Because of the side scrolling nature of the UI you've got some content on the right side that isn't relevant to what you're doing right now. (It takes away from what you're doing.)

The UI appears to lack any boundaries, rather relying on typography. It's interesting. I don't know how I feel about it, I'll reserve that kind of thing for the experts. It's certainly refreshing.

I see they've also created depth by having certain object scroll slower (or less.) Further removing the boundaries. (By boundaries I mean gradients, lines, blocks and buttons - I believe these objects give a UI a form of tactility?)

[http://www.youtube.com/watchv=MdDAeyy1H0A&feature=player...](http://www.youtube.com/watchv=MdDAeyy1H0A&feature=player_embedded)

<comment><USER8> There's a question mark missing in you link. Hopefully it will work this time. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdDAeyy1H0A&feature=404](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdDAeyy1H0A&feature=404)

<comment><USER9> How did _that_ happen...?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> "...the first handsets are supposed to hit the market by the holidays of this year."

Kudos to Microsoft for realizing they need to be bold here and re-invent things. I'm encouraged by the lack of the "Start" bar. They have an incredibly brutal hill to climb if the handsets are only available at the end of the year. They should really have had a device out the door at the same time as the Palm Pre. It has taken Android a considerable amount of time to get to where it is today, and that took a no small amount of effort from Google. RIM, Google, and Apple are not going to be sitting on their hands this whole time milking their lead (well, RIM might ;)). Assuming the time frame holds true (a _big_ assumption), by the time any appreciable number of users have these devices in their hands (early 2011), Apple alone will have released a major new OS update as well as hardware update, and be halfway to the next one. I expect Google will be similarly aggressive.

</comment><comment><USER11> With regards to the interface I have to vouch for Windows.. I have a Zune HD. I love it. The UI is anything but limiting and amazingly intuitive.

My girlfriend would ask "How do I do XXX" and before I could remember how I would accomplish the objective, she had explored her way to the solution.

Obviously a phone will have more strenuous requirements, but the interface I'm using on the Zune seems like it may be the exact outlandish interface that changes the way we think about buttons, and menus for interactive portable devices.

</comment><comment><USER12> About time too. As .Net developer, I've been frustrated watching the Windows Mobile car crash develop in slow motion. Let's hope they get the ecosystem right too

<comment><USER13> M$ can do a SDK. The question is whether they'll stomp 3rd parties as they've done in the past. If they just get the things right that Apple got really wrong, they could even come off as heroes.

<comment><USER14> Funny how a lesser villain can look like a hero...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> 1) There is no phone yet. This was just a very superficial first look behind the curtain. Right now it looks like a modified Zune.

2) Delivery of devices by the end of the year seems a very tight schedule. That gives them basically 8 months to get to RTM. They haven't announced developer tools yet. I would expect a very basic 1.0 release this year if they make it at all.

3) It would be good if they succeeded. It's to no one's benefit to replace one 800 lb gorilla (Microsoft) with another (Apple). A counterweight is needed and Google Buzz has caused me to do a complete re-eval of that firm's worthiness.

</comment><comment><USER16> I hope I am not one of the few who didn't like the interface. It looked too much like "flash interface" you see on some websites. Not a big fan of sideways sliding.

I applaud having more choices in interface, but I am more interested in better choices as opposed to having just another choice. Hard to draw any solid conclusion just by watching that video, but not very impressed so far. IMO YMMV

<comment><USER17> You won't be the only one. However, I know a lot of Zune owners (mostly that won them, not bought them) that thought they would hate the interface and ended up liking it a lot. I don't know if I would like it until trying it. I thought for sure I would like the iPhone UI but it often drives me crazy.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> _[Microsoft is] dictating rigid specs for 7 Series devices (a specific CPU and speed, screen aspect ratio and resolution, memory, and even button configuration), and doing away with carrier or partner UI customizations such as Sense or TouchWiz. That's right -- there will be a single Windows Phone identity regardless of carrier or device brand._

So all Windows phones will look the same and work the same. I'm skeptical that hardware manufacturers will be enthusiastic about Microsoft turning their products into commodities again. Unlike the situation with PCs, this time they have a viable alternative in Android.

<comment><USER19> The partners are probably just happy that they didn't get fucked over by a 1st party Zune Phone.

Microsoft has had several such projects in their recent stable of inept Mobile OS + hardware dev teams (along with several non-phone Zunes, WM6, WM6.5, several reboots of WM7, the Sidekick, etc.).

Google's doing a ton of meddling with their hardware partners, as they can withhold their apps (Maps, Gmail, Voice, etc.) to get their way, but even then they keep getting fucked on basic stuff like putting the hardware buttons in the same order, much less the insane issues with backporting software updates! It looks like MS is trying to dodge all of that up front.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> I'm no fan of Microsoft in general but it looks like they made some good choices here. It's refreshing to see a GUI that's not just an iPhone clone or yet another awkward facelift on a dated product. I think it will be successful. SmartPhones don't have the same level of legacy baggage that prevent users from jumping to another platform easily so I don't think Microsoft is out of the game at all. It'll be interesting to see where their market share comes from. I'm thinking RIM & Nokia more than Apple & Android.

</comment><comment><USER21> What I would have really liked to see in the video was any new capabilities of Mobile Internet Explorer. Is it going to have the capabilities that we're used to from the iPhone, webOS, and Android? The web browser is probably the most important part of these phones since almost everything has a web interface. The XBOX Live and Facebook apps look nice, but there's no guarantee that Windows Phone 7 Series will take off and get lots of developers on board. However, a good web browser means that I can still get what a lot of what I want without apps.

<comment><AUTHOR> From [http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/15/live-from-microsofts- wind...](http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/15/live-from-microsofts-windows- phone-7-series-windows-mobile-press-event-at-mwc-2010/)

 _"Here's a look at the browser. This is a much more advanced browser then we've ever shipped. It's based on the desktop version of IE, so it's highly compatible with lots of webpages."_

And there's a few pictures.

<comment> tomh- That browser better has to support the exact same features as webkit for android and Iphone else I don't think this phone can match up against the iphone and android phones due to the lack of developer interest in developing for this browser.

Developers are fed up for years with Microsoft's browsers and here they can safely ignore it because it doesn't have a huge market share.

<comment><USER22> If it's based on the rendering engine in IE8/7, then pretty much everything on the web already works for it. No mainstream sites are "safely ignoring" Internet Explorer.

<comment> tomh- Well regular mainstream sites aren't, but mobile web applications/sites are making use of css3 and html5 features not present in IE8/7. In the mobile industry Microsoft has such a large marketshare that it will be safe to ignore the browser of Windows Mobile 7 (for now).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> The phone does not seem simple. My mom was able to figure the iphone out. I doubt about this one.

<comment><USER24> Is your mom the target audience for this phone/os? I don't know, but my point is that not everything should be geared towards people who aren't interested or can't keep up with tech.

<comment><USER25> Android's already got the geek market. And it's a small market, so who would be silly enough to fight over the Apple scraps like that? Besides, how could this be a geek phone with no multitasking? And, that UI looks like it was designed by an impressionist painter with no regard to actually using the damn thing, so no normal phone user is going to like it. Way to exclude both user bases, Microsoft.

<comment><USER23> Again, Android is not in the Geek market. It just happens that their aesthetics seem to appeal to geeks. Google would love my mom to be using an Android Phone.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> I love my Android but I have to say I'm impressed with Windows 7.

I have a Zune and I dig the UI a lot. Adding XBox Live games is definitely a big plus. The games give it a big advantage over Android.

Apps will again be key and this is where Microsoft strengths lie. Microsoft has the best developer tools on the market and they have legions of engineers on the .Net platform.

My only worry is that it may be a year or two late for Microsoft. I don't really want to count them out because of what they did with the XBox versus the Playstation.

However, the phone is a tougher market. It would be harder to convince people to switch phones. Phones are much more personal than gaming consoles.

<comment><USER27> People switch phones much more often though, maybe even once a year.

Consoles is something you buy for a five year period of time.

<comment><USER26> True. I would switch phones but very likely it will still be an Android phone.

I don't know that many people switching from IPhone to Android and vice-versa.

My online life is tightly integrated with Google's services so it will be tough to switch to a new platform.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Steve Balmer from the press conference:

 _"...the innovation of developers is important. We build a new foundation with a rich set of development tools which we'll discuss at MIX next month. [...] we want to take a very big step forward on [development tools]."_

I wonder if this is just WPF/Sliverlight.

This seems a lot like the Palm WebOS announcement; similar reboot/new platform and breaking of backwards compatibility (unconfirmed).

<comment><USER17> With how much they've been talking about taking Silverlight mobile since last year's MIX (at PDC most notably) I would almost guarantee that it will be Silverlight.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> It will be very interesting to see what XNA support is like on the final model. There's a strong community of developers accessing these tools for free, which would allow Microsoft to roll out a full and lively app store quickly. I would be highly optimistic about Microsoft's ability to run an app store service, based on experiences with Xbox Live, Xbox Indie Games, and Rock Band Network. Since they're building from scratch, they could analyze and avoid legacy issues present in Apple's iTunes App Store ecology.

Converse to their potential strengths at running an app store, Microsoft has a difficult decision posed by marketing. There are a lot of people out there addicted to Xbox Live Achievement points. If MS allows you to earn achievement points via games on it's new mobile phone, it will get a _tremendous_ boost in market share.

The risk present here is that the achievement points system requires additional overhead and review by MS, in order to prevent system breaking games. There's no feasible way for them to populate their app store with indies _and_ approve achievement points for all of them.

In order to have their cake and eat it to, MS needs to be able to differentiate achievement point games from indie games, but without turning indie games into an unshopped ghetto (see Xbox Indie Games). My best resolution would be to offer a small differentiation to icons on the store, specifically take those icons for games with points and apply a smaller logo to the corner, much like on a shortcut icon. Perhaps make it a little gold medal with a green ribbon falling in an X shape ;)

</comment><comment><USER20> Wondering how it effects the SmartPhone industry...

RIM/Nokia: Should be worried. They're jockeying over last place in the SmartPhone modernity contest these days. Hasn't hurt them much yet but it's hard to see how that lasts forever. Nokia is probably in better shape than RIM here.

Palm: Good try. Consider Open Source and/or licensing before it's too late.

Apple: Probably not much to worry about for now but they shouldn't get complacent with the iPhone platform. My biggest question here is how big of a distraction the iPad was for Apple internally. Do we have a major iPhone revision and a strong software update in the works or another minor hardware bump with a merely evolutionary OS update? If they stay off Verizon for another year (at least) it could really start to hurt iPhone sales. The iPhone is no longer so far ahead of the pack that you'd suffer with bad coverage to use it.

Android: Not much for Google to worry about but I think a lot of third party handset makers will put some resources back into Windows Mobile devices. Even more so with the existence of the N1.

</comment><comment><USER9> I must say, that's surprisingly clean and not in-your-face. A nice change for Microsoft. I've seen _very_ similar styles of interfaces (concepts) for a few years, but they're certainly the first big-player to back it with a product. We can hope it won't be that slow-scrolling (largely seen in other videos). People get annoyed with shiny things that slow them down.

One thing that's bugged me about the touch line of iProducts is the amount of wasted space around the icons (though I understand the reasoning behind it, and it would encourage an entire icon remake if changed).

</comment><comment><USER29> I'm curious to see how it handles emails and .doc and .ppt files.

Whether we like it or not, a lot of day to day business activities happen through word, outlook, and now, powerpoint. If windows mobile displays those files types cleanly, I assure you it will be a success. Blackberrys let you open those filetypes but I think they handle it pretty clumsily.

For me it would be a huge plus if I could go through a deck or read a long word document without having to always be at my desk.

</comment><comment><USER14> Funny how it looks like <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPDT21oEhW0>

<comment><USER30> I would still like to use that interface.

<comment><USER14> All we have to do is to convince the Gnome Foundation. Or the KDE folks.

But would we have to use Spice Girls (is it?) music to go with that?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Refreshing user interface yes.

But did we forget all the lessons of the "readwriteweb facebook login debacle" of last week?

This UI seems substantially less user friendly than iPhone or Android for your average end user.

Who is now, incidentally, trained on the "iphone clone" UI if they've had a smartphone in this generation.

<comment><USER32> I think they've struck on something that Android has been ignoring: fun. The original iPhone was _full_ of fun, interesting usability tidbits - <USER3> momentum-based flicking, the bounce you get when you hit the bottom of a list, the turning of album covers... etc.

How "fun" your UI is directly contributes to discoverability. Android's UI is very dry, and IMHO it makes the UI harder for a novice to pick up and learn. You can inject a lot more features that aren't immediately obvious, and must be learned - but you must make your platform "fun" enough for users to actually bother discovering these things.

Given what I've seen so far, I think MS has realized this also, and I think they're on the right track.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Seems like M$ has re-prioritized. Backwards compatibility is no longer sacred. Now it's alright to forge ahead and tack-on backwards compatibility afterwards. (I'm also thinking of Vista and Windows 7 here.)

<comment><USER33> Backward compatibility with their absolutely massive install base of WinMo 6.1?

<comment><USER13> Good point. But why were they carrying the suckage forward for so long?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> Hmm not sure what to make of this.

The interface looks very limiting.

For instance where do I overview my apps?

<comment><USER35> I get the impression they don't want it to be app centric - presumably "apps" now add functionality to the "hubs" - of course that assumes everything can be neatly categorised

<comment><USER34> Yeah you might be right.

Then again, they can call it what they want. People still need to get to those "hubs" of functionality.

Don't seem to well suited for a store let alone any ecosystem thinking.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> A couple of things I noticed that haven't been mentioned here: Wi-Fi syncing will be great, the animated XBox Live icon is a little annoying.

</comment><comment><USER36> Microsoft got the memo.</comment>


Source Wireframes – library of 537 pixel-perfect blocks for Sketch and Figma - <AUTHOR> http://source.forpeople.studio <comment><USER2> Looks useful! Does it work with version 54 of the Sketch App?

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! It works with the Sketch 53+ version.</comment></comment>