Is Flipkart CEO Kalyan Krishnamurthy Moving Out? - <AUTHOR> Flipkart's CEO Kalyan Krishnamurthy may move from the company's top post, according to two sources aware of the development. While it's not clear when he will move out, sources indicate that his transition will be materialized over the next two months. <comment><AUTHOR> [http://entrackr.com/2017/12/flipkart-ceo-kalyan- krishnamurth...](http://entrackr.com/2017/12/flipkart-ceo-kalyan- krishnamurthy-moving-out/)</comment>


GitHub to replace "master" with alternative term to avoid slavery references - <AUTHOR> https://www.zdnet.com/article/github-to-replace-master-with-alternative-term-to-avoid-slavery-references/#ftag=RSSbaffb68 <comment><USER2> How far can we take it? Can we ask CEO Nat Friedman to rename himself to Nat Peaceman, because Milton Friedman allegedly had close ties to Chile at the wrong time?

People can be triggered by that name, and dual meanings obviously do no longer exist.

</comment><comment><USER3> Back in the mid '90s we went through this, primarily with the IDE specification. Master/slave was renamed "Device 0, Device 1" to break the association with slavery.

Perhaps there's some better nomenclature that people will really connect with to prevent this from resurfacing again?

<comment> ian-g I like primary/replica as a base replacement

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Will they stop accepting MasterCard?

</comment><comment><USER5> I guess the change is unnecessary because it never referenced human slavery to begin with

<comment><USER6> Whether or not the etymology of the term is derogatory or racially insensitive is missing the point.

The point is that some words are particularly emotionally charged for some readers. In this case that's not irrational, and rational or not, in this case that's probably observable.

In the context of technical writing and source code, there's no particularly good reason to use a term that makes a sizable chunk of the readers uncomfortable.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Previous discussion: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23500093](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23500093)</comment>


Apple Pay Faces Challenge as CVS, Rite Aid Reject System - <AUTHOR> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-26/apple-pay-face-challenge-as-cvs-rite-aid-reject-system.html <comment><USER2> I like how the article never mentions the reception that the competitor, CurrentC, has received. [https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/currentc/id912922036?mt=8](https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/currentc/id912922036?mt=8)

Design fail:

        Why should anyone have to grant access to
        their personal checking account, health data
        and allow tracking of their purchases!?

I wish I could give less stars:

        This app would only provide me with less
        security and less convenience.

Horrible mobile payment:

        you think Target and Home Depot breaches
        were bad? Wait until those hackers got a
        hold of your bank account and drain it!

<comment><USER3> Oh but it gets worse.

Apple Pay is very accessible because of it's design, but CurrentC isn't. [http://stevensblog.org/apple-pay-rejections/](http://stevensblog.org/apple- pay-rejections/)

But don't worry the CurrentC app is horrible for people without any accessibility issues. They want your driver's license _and Social Security_ numbers. [http://twitter.com/hasanahmad80/status/526551322523623424/ph...](http://twitter.com/hasanahmad80/status/526551322523623424/photo/1)

TechCrunch walked through how this terrible app works and what data it wants including: location (OK), health & medical (WHAT?), browser history, phone & text logs.

And who needs security? Its privacy policy only shows that it may share data with carriers, ad networks, consumer data resale, analytics, government, and others.

[http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/25/currentc/](http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/25/currentc/)

<comment><USER4> Financial account providers are required to ask for personal identifiers as a result of the USA PATRIOT Act. You have to provide your SSN when you apply for a credit card or bank account, as well.

As for the rest...yeah, seems a bit much.

<comment><USER3> I'd forgotten about that. Are they actually providing an account though? I thought they were just storing a card on file, the way Amazon does. Is it because they're using ACH?

<comment><USER5> Yeah, you're providing checking account details, not credit card details. The system is intended to "cut out the middleman", where the middleman is those nasty credit card companies taking their cut of every sale.

Perhaps they'll start their own bank so you can open a checking account with CVS and use that account for your high risk CurrentC trading (NB: there's already an app on the iTunes App Store called Current C which is a currency conversion calculator).

<comment><USER3> I guess if they have ACH access they have everything they need to launder money so the rules would apply. The only ACH thing I have setup is my paycheck and it wouldn't have phased me to give my SSN at that time.

This whole thing is just so amazingly tone-deaf of a move. They don't want you to use Apple Pay, they want you to use something that doesn't even exist outside private beta, so they take away your choice.

On the other side of the equation, Wells Fargo is offering $20 for trying Apple Pay with their cards.

[http://www.macrumors.com/2014/10/27/wells-fargo-apple-pay- cr...](http://www.macrumors.com/2014/10/27/wells-fargo-apple-pay-credits/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> So the CurrentC people are trying to assure CurrentC's future by pissing off the very same companies that they need to authorise their app? That seems like they're shooting themselves in the foot.

What are they going to do if Apple in particular rejects CurrentC as an app? Do it via HTML5/WebKit? Cannot see the user experience on that being particularly good.

Plus as people on Reddit pointed out, with Apple Pay/Google Wallet, the liability for fraud is still with the banks. With CurrentC you MIGHT be liable for any fraud in the US (because of how credit and debit fraud is handled).

PS - The name "CurrentC" is just terrible. Least memorable name ever. They should have just called it "Vanilla."

<comment><USER7> > So the CurrentC people are trying to assure CurrentC's future by pissing off > the very same companies that they need to authorise their app?

And also the very people who are most likely to be first-adopters for a new payment platform...

<comment><USER8> ^^^ This

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> In order for Apple Pay to be facing a "challenge", wouldn't there have to be, say, an actual competing product, as opposed to some unwise executive at RiteAid deciding to unilaterally disable NFC readers that they already have paid for (amazingly childish) and placed in their stores, along with mumbling about some maybeware solution that they might ship in 2015?

</comment><comment><USER10> Anyone that's been around a while for things like DivX (no, the other one that the now-bankrupt Circuit City backed) and Plays for Sure (until we yank support) knows how this is going to end. Though disappointing that those backing this can't read those same tea leaves, what's really disappointing is that consumers are just going to have to wait while this plays out to the inevitable conclusion.

Look retailers, we understand why you're trying this, but snowballs in hell stand a better chance. Save us all a lot of waiting, and save yourselves some expense, own up to the inevitable and put the NFC readers back. In the meantime, expect not another dime from me, as I will actively go out of my way to avoid you and will actively seek out your competitors who have NFC readers.

EDIT: oh, wait, is it just CVS, RiteAid, and Walmart? So much for my boycott, as I'm willing to just do without before shopping at any of those three, NFC readers or not.

<comment><USER11> I think the consortium would be much better off asking Apple (and Google) to work with them on figuring out a way to automatically tie purchases from a particular store with that store's rewards program. If I don't have to think about it, I'll gladly pay for my items, opt in to rewards (maybe once per company) and let them track me at only that company in exchange for the crappy coupons. They probably don't need my entire bank information, SSN, and DL # to do that.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Why don't they just call CurrentC "ZuneBucks" or "PaysForSure" so we can get this over with?

</comment><comment><USER13> Apple faced the same sort of defection with the iTunes Store. Not every music publisher allowed its music to be sold there at first. Music publishers also put together competing consortiums to distribute emusic through companies they controlled. It's perfectly rational for them to want to do this (it's been said that while more music is bought than ever before, recording industry revenues have been cut in half) but it seems unlikely that a CVS/Rite Aid consortium will release a product more popular with consumers than Apple's might be.

But it still might take several years for other competitors to give up and join in. And, of course, anything can happen in that time.

</comment><comment><USER14> This sucks. I don't know why the mobile payment space is so competitive. It would make more sense to me that any retailer would accept as much different sources and methods of payment as possible to make the purchasing user experience as seamless and easy to use as possible.

<comment><USER15> That makes sense on a small scale. But with big retailers, the calculus changes a bit. The data a big retailer gets from my purchase history: when I come in to the store, what I buy, etc., is potentially very valuable.

CurrentC would allow my purchases to be tracked across multiple major retailers and aggregated. The value there is _incredible_. Possibly worth more than the merchandise I buy? Very possibly, I'd think.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Apple Pay worked last week. Google Wallet worked for years. This is really not looking good for their competing product. Boycotts are starting to trend on Twitter, and for good reason.

</comment><comment><USER17> This is a shitty situation for consumers and I think the retailers are making a big mistake, but it is also somewhat amusing to see so many Apple fans white-knighting for Apple considering they are a company that has routinely rejected (on their walled-garden App Store) apps or app updates to already existing apps because they "duplicate functionality" (read: "compete with our stuff").

My reaction is similar to when Apple gets sued for patent infringement on dumb patents -- it still makes me dislike the current patent system for abuse, but at the same time a part of me thinks it couldn't happen to a more deserving company in a "live by the sword, die by the sword" way.

</comment><comment><USER18> "The deadline for merchants to make the switch is October 2015; so far about 220,000 U.S. stores have done so, out of more than 10 million. The upgrade costs $500 to $1,000 per checkout terminal, according to Javelin Strategy & Research."

Why not just go to your local office supply store and look up that you can get a iCT250 for about $200 and from the ingenico website you can read that specific model "Gives options to accept all forms of payment including MSR, EMV, contactless and mobile NFC." "credit cards with chips" to the general public are "EMV" to retailers. I think I saw an ad for Staples for $250 for this exact terminal. Its a top of the line device and its only $200 to maybe $300 depending where you buy it. You could probably pay less.

I volunteer part time as treasurer for a non-profit and part of my "volunteer" work as the local IT expert was researching alternative payment methods for our fundraisers, none of which we (aka I) decided to implement. Partially because when you have a bazillion volunteer workers its a miracle if they can just get the name right on personal checks, there is no way in hell I'm personally training 50 people to accept 25 different digital payment methods. Also we keep more cash with our no fee non-profit checking account, so why make some middleman "rich". Our (edited: fundraiser event) cashflow is barely in the 5 digit range, and I can imagine orgs much bigger or smaller, or profit instead of non-profit, might have different end results.

(Edited to add, theres a new alternative digital payment method released roughly every 3 months, its very trendy. So next fall, that would be roughly 29 possible payment technologies for 50 people thats almost 1500 training sessions all of which have to be perfect. No thanks!)

</comment><comment><USER19> Until there's a system that works for consumers 98% of the time or more, consumers will continue to reach into their wallets for a plastic card. Proprietary software vendors are never going to hit that rate of acceptance, and for the most part, they're all wasting their time with these half-baked implementations. As soon as a universal open standard of payments becomes accepted by the big merchants, that's when these mobile payment space will take off. No one wants to embrace Bitcoin for all the obvious reasons, but there is no other competing solution, so it'll clearly be the inevitable, if not reluctant, winner in this market.

<comment><USER20> More likely, Apple and Google will cooperate if they have to. Or Apple will revert to their old policy and remove Bitcoin apps from the App Store.

<comment><USER19> ISPs in the 90s never cooperated to form a neutral standard for content design and layout because there was never a standard that could possibly serve any one of their interests without coming at an expense to every other member in a coalition. This early mobile payment space is highly comparable to that industry. Further, there's a lot more providers in this space than Apple and Google. Those two have already merged onto a fairly similar NFC standard, which is about as far as they could go without support from merchants. Meanwhile, merchants are fairly rapidly adopting Bitcoin.

<comment><USER21> > ISPs in the 90s never cooperated to form a neutral standard for content > design and layout because there was never a standard that could possibly > serve any one of their interests without coming at an expense to every other > member in a coalition.

Could you explain this further? What standard would ISPs be developing in the 90s for content and layout?

<comment><USER19> There never was one, which is the point. Compuserve had a weird compiled binary format. AOL had a similarly weird proprietary format, Prodigy was a vector based system that could never work with anyone else, and there were countless others (Genie, etc). Meanwhile, HTML came along over PPP, and that's when the entirety of corporate america, and residential dial-up users joined the network. The same thing is happening now with the mobile payments industry.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Ok, time to shop at Walgreens.

</comment><comment><USER23> The digital payment dam is about to burst open. These companies are plugging holes in the dam with their fingers. There's no stopping the digital payment river.

<comment><USER24> Retailers want nothing less than universal digital payments. I'm not sure why you would think that they wouldn't. This is about Apple's solution vs. their own solution.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> How dare the retailers have their own system that tries to cut out the credit card middleman.

<comment><USER26> I don't think the issue is that customers don't like competition, its the fact that they are being hostile towards the ones trying to give them money, restricting consumer choice and forcing a sub-par solution that is not as convenient at best and downright insecure at worst.

I think you'd see a similar backlash if CVS decided to take cash only because they wanted to cut out the credit card middleman.

<comment><USER27> At least that would be defensible, and a superior solution to this abysmal "CurrentC" app!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> Basically Walmart has had a vendetta against Visa/MC interchange fees (~2%) for years and is now at the point of acting irrationally.[1] They sued them to the tune of billions of dollars and of course that didn't kill them. They got the Durbin amendment passed and that didn't kill them. And the reason is simple: Visa/MC actually have consumers allied with them, thanks to things like purchase protections and reward programs. Consumers like paying with their existing Visa/MC cards.

So they got a bunch of other big retailers to sign exclusivity agreements to try to force customers to pay by direct checking account withdrawals (ACH), bypassing Visa/MC, in order to get mobile pay functionality. It's silly.

They hate Apple Pay because it further entrenches Visa/MC, their nemesis. Much of the criticism around this has focused on privacy and crappy app design, which is fair, but really the main motivation here is to kill Visa/MC.

I expect the more rational merchants will adopt Apple Pay once their exclusivity contracts expire.

On privacy: CurrentC does collect more customer info than Apple Pay (similar to signing up for a store card), but to be clear, merchants can still track your purchase behavior with Apple Pay. Apple Pay swaps in a device account # for your real account #, and that # can still be used to track your purchases over time. It's primarily a security thing (that # can only be used for TouchID-authorized payments).

When Apple talks about privacy it's mainly in comparison to other payment intermediaries (e.g. Google Wallet), i.e. _Apple_ doesn't track your purchases. With respect to merchants, Apple Pay does hide your real name but tracking and those annoying register coupons based on your past activity are still very much possible. And if the merchant ever collected your email at some point, they could associate it with your device account # just the same as your real card #, just like before.

This is all a way of saying that MCX's main objective is not to bypass all the privacy protections that Apple Pay is putting in place against merchants, because Apple Pay doesn't really do that (apart from your real name). I'm sure MCX wouldn't mind grabbing more info -- we'd have to scrutinize the privacy policy -- but the main, longstanding, simmering motivation here is to try to kill interchange fees.

Unfortunately they are so irrational and short-sighted that they are willing to make life worse for consumers in the process, even though it has no chance of succeeding.

[1] "I don't know that MCX will succeed, and I don't care. As long as Visa suffers." \- alleged Walmart CEO quote as reported by [http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/25/currentc/](http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/25/currentc/)

<comment><USER3> Is the Apple Pay pseudo-card number constant for each device/merchant? I wondered if it changed on a regular basis or per transaction (sort of like one time use card numbers).

I don't blame Walmart for wanting an extra 2% profit, I object to having things shoved down my throat. Apple actually improves CCs for the first time in decades and MCX is trying to push a system with less privacy, protections (direct ACH access? Never), and no actual benefit to me.

Everything they want to do (for me) they can do with the little barcode loyalty cards or their own app and let me use Apple Pay.

Instead they play cartel.

<comment><USER29> I do blame Walmart for wanting that extra 2% profit because they want to have their cake and eat it too.

Remember the time when gas stations charged more for credit card transaction? Well no more. Rather than fight the uphill battle, gas stations slowly raised their prices cover credit card transaction fees.

Same thing happened with most retailers. Many used to have $20 minimum for CC transaction years ago. That slowly went down to $0 for most places. Now you have people pay for soda with their debit cards.

People forget that retailers benefit tremendously from credit cards because studies have shown that people spend substantially more when they charge things on card, versus when they pay cash.

Well, now that Walmart business is hurting, they want to squeeze credit card companies. Even if they were able to cut CC companies out, the extra profit would eventually go away through competition.

<comment><USER28> > the extra profit would eventually go away through competition.

That is a nice belief but proven false in practice. In Australia where they regulated away cc fees, prices did not decline. Merchants kept the margin. Economics is funny sometimes.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Headline is misleading. First paragraph makes it clear that these companies are not "rejecting" Apple Pay (and google wallet for that matter) but are excluding support for them because they are part of a competing consortium.

<comment><USER26> Im unclear about the difference - how is turning off support for NFC (and with it apple pay and google wallet) not rejecting it?</comment></comment>


Orbvious Interest (aka chromeril) sneaks in adware - <AUTHOR> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/orbvious-interest/bkikpncfbjndhfkipijhdoddiadaipaa/reviews?hl=en

<comment><AUTHOR> This happened to be about a week ago (that I noticed) - nasty popover 'you might be interested in buying this stuff because you're viewing this page'.

Interesting that the repository has been locked up, too: [https://code.google.com/p/chromeril/](https://code.google.com/p/chromeril/)

Money-grab by the creator, or a hijack?</comment>


How to fix low self esteem? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> 1\. Pretend / fake it Say things to yourself like "I am nature's greatest miracle!". This is from a Simpsons episode but I find it makes me feel good to say it. Wear nice freshly cleaned clothes when you are in social situations. Spend a lot of money to get a decent hair cut and maintain it by going every month. This will make you look more confident and people will respond to you like you have a dominant personality (an alpha). You are not, but they will treat you like one.

2\. BE confident. Clearly and politely state what you want. Be prepared for rejection -- in fact seek rejection out to condition you to not care. Learn to call people by their name. It is music to their ears and they will enjoy your company more.

3\. Do something that you feel is risky (but safe), like sky diving or entering a boxing tournament. Hopefully you will survive and you can draw strength in the future from this experience.

One of the "secrets" of life is we can pretend to be anything, and the longer we pretend, the more we actually change. Society will reflect back to you what you put out. Look at people and smile, they will start saying "hi" in return.

<comment><USER3> nice one

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> This TED talk may be useful. (piggybacking on lifeguard's ideas): [http://www.ted.com/talks/amy_cuddy_your_body_language_shapes...](http://www.ted.com/talks/amy_cuddy_your_body_language_shapes_who_you_are.html)

</comment><comment><USER5> Try Rejection Therapy <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rejection_Therapy>

I find it the most difficult but at the same time the most efficient solution for low esteem issue.

</comment><comment><USER6> Low self esteem is often rooted in a disconnect between perceived ability and actual ability. Seeking some kind of objective measure which gives a clearer idea of where you really stand can be very helpful for some people.

</comment><comment><USER7> I think this may help: <http://paidtoexist.com/limiting-beliefs/>

</comment><comment><USER8> Fake it til you make it. Delude yourself into believing you can do something and you will become capable of doing it.

</comment><comment><USER9> Work out. Sign up for classes in kickboxing, Bikram yoga, anything that will kick your ass.

On top of what the other commenters said!</comment>


Introducing Quip - <AUTHOR> https://quip.com/blog/introducing-quip <comment><USER3> It's always surreal to read Hacker News threads about the stuff you make. Harsh, but realistic. Anyway, I am Bret Taylor, co-founder of Quip. I am here if you have any questions, etc. (Also posted responses on the existing thread already).

Just to clarify a couple of points I have read:

1\. We do support desktops. We have a really nice web app. It is Chrome/Firefox only right now.

2\. We have an Android app. It is a "preview release" because it is not feature complete. We released it because it is pretty close, and you can download it at [https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.quip.quip](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.quip.quip). It is early, but it exists.

<comment><USER4> App looks great Bret. One question - given the focus on collaboration and mobility and the very minimal formatting feature set, why the positioning as a word processor rather than a OneNote/Wiki/Collab note taking tool?

<comment><USER5> I had the same thinking. I think Microsoft OneNote is the example to follow in mobile. Microsoft had tried to port it to mobile devices but that is not the real desktop OneNote.

Back in the iPhone 2g era I was developing a personal wiki with a WYSIWYG UI but I stopped because I needed to use a lot of hidden UITextView/WebView object methods that were not approved by Apple policies or write my own editor engine. Many years later I don't see this kind of wiki in the App Store (no, it's not EverNote).

<comment><USER6> > (no, it's not EverNote).

Amen! I've run desktop wikis, Evernote, OneNote, plain text files, Markdown files, Workflowy, Delicious, Diigo and more, and not fit exactly. Evernote is so easy to dump things into (esp web page clippings) and oh-so-hard to find/retrieve information. I've come to the conclusion tags don't cut it, as vocab I used 4+ years ago may have changed by now - heck even terms I used 3 weeks ago change as my knowledge improves.

A wiki with structure, like the Leo Literate Programming Editor used IIRC has come closest. But the space of PIM is ripe for a killer product that takes semi-structured data and allows us to run with it.

Filemaker for the web, with a bit more flexibility.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> This looks awesome.

When I installed it, the first thing I am greeted with is a screen asking me to enter my email address. Given that my email is a Gmail address, it notifies me about wanting to manage my contacts and something else (that was the first off-putting step in my experience). I just met you, and your hands are already going down my pants.

Then once I got in, the 1st or 2nd screen inside is about adding friends because it is better when you collaborate.

The only reason I saw the 'Skip' in the top right is because I was really looking for a way not to do this.

So I think the issue I have with this workflow is that the expectations that the landing page set are one thing (i.e. awesome document creation on mobile devices) and then the experience is pushing me into a "hand-over-your-address- book-and-get-to-sharing" experience right off the bat.

I get the whole "viral loop" thingy, and baking it into the product experience, but I feel like it would leave a better taste in my mouth if I was nudged into it - rather than broadsided.

That being said, I am likely to continue using it and playing with it (because of the potential value that a word processor made for an iPad can have).

I was just put off by that digging into my address book experience...that's all.

<comment><USER8> Sadly, I think this suffers from one of Facebooks greatest and worst issues: "WHO WOULDN'T WANT TO SHARE THIS, NOW!!!"

> __ _" Uhm... because; Fuck You, that's why"_ __

I would suggest a much more clever way to virility; Help me actually MAKE something I WANT to share...

How about a tutorial on how to build an utterly awesome [document] thaat I just must share!

An invite, a how-to, op-ed...something!!

Here is an app that is looking to re-define how word processing is done, with a social context built-in - yet fails to provide a compelling reason, way, example, on how that should be done.

If word procs are so broken, give me an exciting example of how you fix it.

<comment><USER7> _I would suggest a much more clever way to virility; Help me actually MAKE something I WANT to share... How about a tutorial on how to build an utterly awesome [document] thaat I just must share! An invite, a how-to, op- ed...something!!_

This is actually pretty clever.

Bret and Team...not to be presumptuous to offer you guys advice, but I think this could be very useful.

Picture this....the way make/consume documents has changed drastically since Word was initially created.

There could be a VERY powerful viral loop in here somewhere, but I don't think it is on the surface.

If you guys built it into the document type being created, e.g. you made some nifty tools that allow me to make 'wedding/party invites' from scratch (with some sexy templates or features that add significant value to the creation of an invite) - then you add the address book/viral element built into that process, once it is done - it makes total sense.

Once they create an invite, they want to share it.

The same is likely true for other document types - e.g. Resumes, Basic Flyers (say for Yard Sales, etc.), article that needs to be proof-read before submitting (like an op-ed), a school paper, certain legal documents, etc.

So, I guess what I am saying is....if you take a step back and think about different document types that people might want to create. Then you build tools to make the creation of each of those documents easier, than say using Photoshop, Word or Google Docs - then you build in the viral loop into the appropriate document types that make sense for you to share it.

I think THAT would be revolutionary.

<comment><USER9> Think VistaPrint and their free business cards... free as long as you let them print their logo on the back. :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Great stuff. Never easy tackling such an entrenced market.

I have a few suggestions though as someone that not only actively uses Google Docs but practically forces people I work with to do so too.

1\. How do I make this appear in my existin Google Docs folder? I really do not want to have another place for my documents.

2\. The pricing of Google Docs makes it really hard to beat. How does quip plan to fight that?

3\. Still early days but people create different types of docs e.g Spreadsheets and slides for the same projects. How does it work with them without putting one type of doc in a differnt location from another? Especially when they are fr the same project?

4\. My biggest issue when using Google Docs is that of formatting. The format does not play well with Word (we have to accept Word I'd boss for now and a monster number of people still use it ). Does the formatting work well with Word?

From my very limited knowledge, I have a few suggestions

1\. Be the best at something and come inthrough the flanks. E.g the best way to edit your DropBox documents (I actually thought Dropbox would have launched a document processor by now). Coming through the flanks will remove the weight of expextation and at the same time allow people to

2\. integrate you into an existing workflow for a large number of people. Eg. Sync with Google Doc.

3\. Understandably, 17million is not a lot these days so you need to start earning money. But consider almost everyone will already have away of processing docs. I would find it hard to pay for something I have already paid to do. And does far much more work for me. You need people to start geting used to you and your pricing will limit adoption

The above is my feedback. I am sure you must have thought of it and more. I wish you all the best.

<comment><USER11> >> 1\. Be the best at something and come inthrough the flanks. E.g the best way to edit your DropBox documents (I actually thought Dropbox would have launched a document processor by now). Coming through the flanks will remove the weight of expextation and at the same time allow people to

What's a DropBox document? I have Word documents in my Dropbox, PDFS, photos, spreadsheets. I don't have Dropbox documents.

<comment><USER10> As Wilfra stated, I mean documents stored in DropBox (Word, PowerPoint, Excel(Spreadsheets) etc)

Sorry for the confusion and the one billion typos. I was typing on a mobile first thing this morning.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Quip is Bret Taylor's new company.

Bret founded Google Maps and FriendFeed. Then he was CTO of Facebook for 3 years.

So this should be interesting.

<comment><USER13> According to [https://quip.com/about/](https://quip.com/about/) he seems like an underachiever on the Quip team.

>>Ryan's resume intimidates small children and household pets. After co- founding Google App Engine with Kevin, Jon, and Bret, Ryan boarded his hot air balloon and ascended to low earth orbit. He then won a Nobel peace prize, seven Olympic medals (all bronze), three Oscars, and the jackpot at Caesar's Palace. Since landing, he's cured cancer, penned the sequel to Ulysses, and achieved nirvana. That was on Tuesday.

They've evidently already raised $15 million as well. This should be really interesting.

<comment><USER14> Should add self-inflicted boners to the list...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Definitely "not for my mom" product, at least not yet. I logged on using my Google account and it needed permission to _manage_ my contacts and among other things! Why a word processor needs to manage my contacts? Interface on desktop Chrome is filled with undiscoverability issues like Windows 8 UX. For example, it took me forever to figure out that there was a "+" sign on the bottom right to start creating new doc. That was in fact only way to create new doc. I still can't figure out where is the button for making text bold or italics. After few minutes I gave up trying to figuring out how to change font.

</comment><comment><USER8> Nice subtle "Professional" marketing with the Quip Business screenshot for the desktop NOT being on a Macbook. :)

However, this says nothing of compatibility with existing docs. What if I have a ton of content trapped in .docx? What about Tables in docs? Are they supported?

How do you send a document to a non-Quipper? Does it PDF? Export to ODF? DOCX?

Or are we to expect an email "Hey, I sent you this awesome document! All you need to do to open it is install this app and reate an account!" type of spreading?

Finally, while the UI is definitely beautiful, the collaboration part looks like it suffers from Facebook's one-scrollable-column...

Ill definitely give it a try - but if the app is just a vertical data-silo into which my content is trapped... then I don't see it being very useful for me. Looks nice - lets hope its useful.

EDIT: I am really interested in the UX of creating a nice looking document without a mouse! The speed with which I can type and navigate on any phone or tablet is fractions of that of my desktop... I guess some people like producing on a phone/tablet - I personally HATE it - so I'd love to hear how people deal with it on this...

For example, there is no Search function for text on my iOS devices. They'd better implement search and replace. Highlighting SUCKS on any touch based device as well...

I am wondering if these UX issues are overcome by well built software?

Basically I see phones and tablets as almost exclusively data/content ___CONSUMPTION_ __devices - not because of size or form - but of the HID /Input.

<comment><USER3> Right now, we natively support PDF export.

We also support "high fidelity" copy and paste, i.e., if you paste a doc from Quip into Word or similar products, it preserves all the formatting correctly. Not awesome and we will improve in subsequent updates, but it actually does most of what you'd need in the meantime.

<comment><USER8> One of the best word processing docs I have ever used was Page Maker 5.0... Everything you put into it was treated as an object. Tec: Object box. And they were extremely precisely controllable. None of the god-damned app trying to auto snap/move your stuff around.

You had a "page" which was actually just a backdrop on top of which your content object hovered - and you had very very fine control.

If you have the ability to treat each piece of content as a discrete object - and move, size and shape them precisely - that would be fantastic.

<comment><USER16> Then you might like Office Publisher. But this seems like an entirely different use case. In this case, writing/editing/collaborating is the primary purpose, and formatting and style is only there for those purposes. This is not a design tool - this is a writing tool. When I'm writing, all I want to have to do is write (I might want to do some basic formatting, but that's still within that purview). I don't want to design the document; I want to write it. It seems that this is the main purpose of Quip, as it is the main purpose of Word (despite that application being bloated and horrifically misused by many).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Is it just me, or are a lot of startups borrowing each other's value props? It's like a Mad Lib that everyone just fills in:

"[Product] is a [app category] that enables you to create beautiful [output]."

Everything's about "enabling the creation of beautiful" XYZ. Nothing against these guys in particular, I just happened to notice it while reading the site, and am thinking back to the N other new product announcements I've seen here recently.

<comment><USER18> Well, it's pretty well known that using "beautiful" in your headline makes for a weak value prop, but it's also a hard concept to argue with. No one wants to make an ugly anything.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Meh, MS Word is a horrible piece of software, but it does its job, how is this different? Collaboration? Good luck convincing the business world only with that, they have been emailing files for 20 years and they have been reading paper for over a century. Really, good luck.

Then, format? Open, closed? Are we again proposing creating documents on proprietary formats after all the issues we saw with .doc and friends?

<comment><USER20> One of the problems I have with word is that the paper paradigms still dominate everything there.

An word processor that is more rooted in the digital age have a fair shot if executed correctly.

<comment><USER19> But guess what, people actually do use printers.

On top of that, I am doing my case here for "business use". If you are targeting business, you have to look at Power Point, not MS Word. Most of the business rules, presentations, information, are in a .ppt. Guess why. People like graphs and images to convey information, they prefer 1 line of text and 1 image instead than a dense paragraph.

And the good thing is that there is something super tested that is already great at that... the browser! Also, html, css and friends are a good open, tested, vetted, format! Why do we keep reinventing the wheel? Why don't look at making great use of web technologies?

What you want is a good alternative to Power Point, with presentations that run into a browser and that can be easily saved as a .pdf. That's it. That's a great product.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> The signup process is totally screwed up, in an infinity loop kind of way.

I signup: email, name, password. Sends me a confirmation email. I click on confirmation link. Sends me again to the same signup page, only this time the fields are completed. The only available next step is to click on "Next" again, and the email verification is sent again, sending me to the same completed fields page...

It happens on both web and iOS. I guess I'll have to stick with Google Docs and Pages.

<comment><USER22> If you email me your account information ( firstname.lastname@example.com ) I can investigate this.

<comment><USER21> Thanks for offering to help, but I've gone ahead and deleted the app. I'll stick with Pages and Google Docs, a signup process to use a word editor isn't for me.

<comment><USER23> Didn't you signup for google docs as well?

<comment><USER21> I signed up to Gmail in 2004, but not to Google Docs. At least voluntarily, you know what I mean.

<comment><USER24> So you prefer to use a product that signs you up involuntarily? Interesting.

<comment><USER21> It would definitely be _interesting_ if that were what I meant. Unfortunately it isn't.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Who likes typing on a tablet or phone? They are for reading, not composing.

<comment><USER26> I love typing on a tablet. The tablet is actually a great form factor for writing, and, more importantly, focusing on only writing.

<comment><USER3> The best part of Quip is portrait on the iPad - just a blank sheet of paper with no toolbars. It is a really nice writing (and reading) experience.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> This looks great and I'm hopeful that it will do well.

Having said that I can't help but think how strange it is that the launch of another word processor is novel enough to reach the front page of HN.

I understand that the co-founders are big names in the valley but a word processor? Perhaps I'm missing something but the technology here seems anything but front page worthy.

<comment><USER28> It's a novel way of implementing a word processor and from the screenshots looks like a good start.

I'm getting pretty tired of these "how does this belong on HN" posts. Face it, most things in computer science have been invented before. The interesting thing is how well a product has been executed. Should we not have linked to the announcement of Facebook or Dropbox when they were announced, just because social networks and file syncing products were around before them?

<comment><USER27> > Face it, most things in computer science have been invented before.

It'll be hard to convince me that in only 400 years of its existence we've managed to exhaust the majority of our capacity to expand computer science.

<comment><USER28> Good because I'm not trying to convince you of that. If you only want to read about novel research, please go read computer science journals instead of complaining on Hacker News when new startup launches get coverage.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Kinda looks like OneNote for people who haven't seen OneNote. A few cool new things in there, like the @mentions. Neat.

</comment><comment><USER30> Yet another company making Android a second class citizen? Pass. When you send me that message early, all I can say is thanks. I know I will be disappointed because other devices are a priority. At least you are honest.

</comment><comment><USER31> Criticizes word processors as being from another era with old concepts. Then goes on to show a skeuomorphic interface based on even more elderly analogies, such as "desktop" and "folders."

Minor nit aside, the diffs do seem very helpful to the folks who pass around Word docs and such. I guess either technology or the tech world has only now caught up to this need with things like this and Draft.

<comment><USER32> >> Criticizes word processors as being from another era with old concepts. Then goes on to show a skeuomorphic interface based on even more elderly analogies, such as "desktop" and "folders."

Without dropping the notion of a 'document' altogether I can't really think of a better way to convey a 'group of documents' than a folder. I feel like these metaphors aren't going away anytime soon. What would be better, do they need to be more abstract so as to not be _skeuomorphic_? A 'group', a 'set'? Having a single long list of documents and _tagging_ them could work, but I've always felt a large proportion of users prefer actual 'folders' to tags, (probably why Gmail offers both).

I was really impressed with the UI. And it synced between my iPad and Chrome desktop very nicely. Look forward to playing with this more.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> Boy, Hacker News has gone in a strange direction. Killer new product from legendary engineers. Let's all get together and shit on it!

<comment><USER13> ^^that's Marc Andreessen FYI, those of you downvoting him.

<comment><USER34> So? If his argument for why this is good is that it's "killer" and from "legendary engineers" then he deserves it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> Looks awesome. I especially like the conversation column showing diffs and messages together -- it seems like an elegant way to collaborate.

Congratulations Bret and team!

</comment><comment><USER36> Compliments on the thing as a whole, but one thing stuck out to me (negatively).

When I read about 'tablets' and 'interaction' and saw the screenshot of how interfaces haven't changed much, I got rather excited about the idea of a word processor that _truly_ tried to change the way we 'process words' on touch devices.

Instead, it seems you've mostly focused on the stuff _surrounding_ word processing. Which is a noble goal, but not what I was hoping/wishing for.

I'd like to see someone reinvent the word processor, or update it for touch interfaces. In the same way that the mouse greatly changed the way we work on 'normal' computers, surely touch should give us similar new advantages.

I've been following a number of projects that try to do this, but they are hyper-focused on just that text-input part. I'd love to see the best ideas from those experiments find their way into Quip.

(This is just a general observation, not an attack on Quip. I can understand that you have chosen a specific focus that doesn't happen to be what I care about.)

<comment><USER37> Could you share links to those projects that you are following and elaborate on the ideas that has you excited?

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> Played with the web version for a bit. Nice looking app, but doesn't really do anything I need that I can't do with Google Docs, which my company uses for a lot of collaborative writing. We still eventually publish the docs out to Word and PDF because that's how they get consumed, but for the collaborative writing part it's Google Docs all the way, so I see value in refining the collaborative writing market.

Having offline mobile is "nice" but not totally necessary for my use case, mostly because the number of people I know who car write decent sentences on their mobile devices are few.

</comment><comment><USER39> I don't understand why do all (and I mean ALL) screenshots have to be on an Apple device? Are you selling iPads or iPhones? Shouldn't your focus be on your product and not on Apple's product?

Perhaps in the beginning somebody could be fooled that if you like awesome Apple products your product will be awesome as well. Or that because iThingies near perfection your service is also going to be highly polished. Obviously, that is more often false than true - you're a damn startup and the products on the screenshots are sometimes little more than MVPs (not in this case, I guess).

What is wrong with just a screenshot?

<comment><USER40> Doesn't look as nice. Apple sells. You don't reinvent the wheel when it's running well.

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> Interesting though this sounds, I get irritated whenever I read about someone changing the existing paradigms of [insert topic here], and then continuing to use all the existing metaphors from the existing paradigms, e.g.; 'desktop', 'inbox', etc.

And despite my rant, I'm not sure if there's a solution to this. You need customers to understand how you're asking them to change, and without reference to the old terminology this is damn near impossible.

<comment><USER8> Honestly, this wont change until we drop the skeuomorphing of paper...

Someday, someone will build something where "documents" may look like little blocks, with little indicators on them as to which data-streams they connect to live and how much social activity is happening about them - <USER2> popularity, their rated completeness, how many links to that info, security level, capabilities etc.

Take the whole idea of an entire stack and call it a "document" when you open it - it may contain whole DBs, connect to N other things and be able to produce X based on Y input from you or others. They may be intelligent enough to know to ask you to input a certain set of content before they can move onto the next phase of becoming complete, even with training information inside telling you how to enter into them the info they need to realize completeness.

Compressed abstraction and virtualization into a single finite functional datablock that can be moved sent secured monitored etc... just as much as any other stack/cluster....

/daydream...

<comment><USER42> It's not a skeuomorphism. Some people actually print out these word processing documents onto actual paper, so they need to be able to see what the document will look like on paper before they print it.

As an aside, I typically use word processors in "Web Layout" (as MS Word calls it) mode until I get to the point where I'm starting to think about print layout. Only then do I switch to "Print Layout".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> To me this feels like a group of friends that are already financially stable deciding they're tired of working in a corporate juggernaut and just want to "get the band back together".

Maybe quip works out, maybe it doesn't, maybe it's just giving these guys and gals something to do for the next year or two... and that's just fine. Not every product has to shake the foundations of society and life as we know it.

</comment><comment><USER44> From the privacy policy;

 _" Information that we collect from our users, including PII, is considered to be a business asset. As a result, if we go out of business or enter bankruptcy or if we are acquired as a result of a transaction such as a merger, acquisition or asset sale, your PII may be disclosed or transferred to the third-party acquirer in connection with the transaction."_

Honest.

</comment><comment><USER45> First, great work. Second, please put something on your landing page that addresses Google Docs. Address the top X document tools and explain to my why I should use Quip. That was my initial question, and I had to scan through HN to find my answer. Other than that... it looks great and I hopeyou guys rock it!

</comment><comment><USER46> A bit off topic, but every time i see document-making apps, i wonder about the lack of file manager.

My workflow is almost always, open the app, start typing, then ask myself "i'd like to add a picture here". Now, on desktop that's simply a matter of clicking "import image" and browse my hard drive to find the picture. It's a pull workflow.

What's the worflow for that on an iPad ? Android has file managers, but iOS definitely needs something more convenient than "export this image to".

EDIT : and that could be really easy to do from an API / UI perspective : just create a system UIViewController like mail composer, that present the list of apps (or app groups), and let me pick files that the apps put in their "shared" folder (read only).

</comment><comment><USER47> Very interesting project.

Just a couple of feedback and a suggestion for a feature

1\. when editing a document, the left arrow works as opposite as one would expect: instead of sending the editing fullscreen, it brings the toolbar in foreground. In this case I would put a right arrow.

2\. I would put the graphics/table menu together with the paragraph/heading/list

As a LaTeX user (and as a editor of many BS/MS thesis of non-technical friends) I have always thought that defining the structure of a long document before starting to write was fundamental. Therefore I would love a WYSIWYG editor that forces (or at least guides) users to define the structure of the document before and in a different place than where they write the content.

</comment><comment><USER48> Nice. Seems very similar in focus to other document based collaboration services, perhaps most notably these folks: [http://www.collaborate.com/](http://www.collaborate.com/)

Quip seems closed, no links to Google Drive or Box that I could see, but they include private links to hosted document storage and PDF export. It's like the Asana[1] in that way, but Quip has a solid focus on documents not tasks.

Some strange UI artifacts on my iPhone 4s iOS7b4, text insertion didn't work; wonder if this is due to a proprietary attributed uitextview?

[1] [http://asana.com/product](http://asana.com/product)

</comment><comment><USER49> How your website looks when accessed over my 3G connection:

[http://imgur.com/fD2dC7f](http://imgur.com/fD2dC7f)

Annoyingly, all your images are loaded first (and judging from the load times, they're not that small).

</comment><comment><USER50> Lost me at 'To create an account'

</comment><comment><USER40> Hmmmmm

I'm personally not a tablet-typer and connecting a BT keyboard to an iPad with a case is basically a laptop, so I'd rather just use an Air (wouldn't you?)

Quip looks nice, but from reading this thread, their and playing with the app myself I have a few observations. After all, this is a thread where we come to comment, so why not throw five minutes of my life into some writing, using my BT keyboard, on a big heavy iMac.

First, saying that there is "barely a laptop in sight [in the Bay Area]" is just rubbish - there are _plenty_ of laptops in and around the Bay Area, the Valley, Southern California, California, the United States, the world. Startups - your users are not all in San Francisco. It's like Tim Cook saying "there are no Android phones at BJ's Grill."

I appreciate the forward thinking of this app in a very "post-PC" era kind of way, but showing a screen of MacWrite from 1984 in the app page is just ridiculous - there have been _plenty_ of great mobile-based word processing applications in the past few years, in case you have not noticed. From Pages to IAWriter to Textilus to Evernote, the list goes one. Saying the "software that we use to get work done has not evolved over the past thirty years" is just utter nonsense. It has evolved, quite a bit. As much as I don't want to praise Microsoft, they've been improving Word (sure, Office for iOS is terrible) slowly but surely over the years. It's a solid WP and you give credit where credit is due.

With regards to this application, the "thread approach" to document sharing and collaboration is an interesting notion. That is if you share a lot of documents with other social-based users a la FB style, but I highly doubt you're going to see attorneys redlining agreements in a feed - although it would be nice to see people chatting regarding a document, pitch, brief, agreement in real-time - but hey, world doesn't work that way (especially at $500 an hour). I don't think a lot of users "enjoy" word processing. We do it do get work done!

Editing document also appears to be a little strange (although I don't have anyone to collaborate with yet) but the concept of including "documents edits" in the activity feed makes no sense really. WP's such as Word (and WordPerfect in the past) have always been known for a rich set of features, tools for various professionals, the people who use WP's all the time. Formatting options, graphics, tables, charts, margins, etc. These are all very important features for the bulk of users. So while I understand the product and the "modern word processor" buzzword, it's important to define what a "modern word processor" is/should be and how you're going to get the majority of the world (95%) or a small chunk (<10%) to shift away from Word and to this modern design.

I get it - it's a social thing, the buzzwords are there, the skeuomorphism is flowing with the manila folders, but Word Processors have in inherent attribute that is tough to rewrite with graphics and sharing and @mentions: it's functionality. And that's all the matters.

Best of luck to you guys.

Edit: I wanted to add that it's important to test, use, and discuss [new] applications with an open mind. This is their first release, so things will undoubtedly improve, user feedback is so important to a new startup/product. Your users are everything - and certainly those outside of SFO (sorry had to). I think Quip can learn a lot from comments here on HN, no matter how long you work on a product and polishes the edges, it takes someone from the outside looking in to really give you some great direction at times.

<comment><USER38> "I'm personally not a tablet-typer and connecting a BT keyboard to an iPad with a case is basically a laptop, so I'd rather just use an Air (wouldn't you?)"

Yeup, exactly. And now that 10 Hour 11" Airs will be coming....

</comment></comment><comment><USER51> The messaging challenge Quip is going to have is that they have to call themselves a "modern word processor" so we have context to understand what it is.

But from the landing page this looks / feels drastically different from any word processing / document creation tool I've used in the past.

It might be interesting to test a variant that starts with a screenshot that centers visitors around what this has in common with today's word processor, and then hammers home the "awesome" part after that.

</comment><comment><USER52> Great tool which solves several practical problems. Especially I like the ability to edit documents offline.

After looking at it briefly I came up with these points:

\- I'd like to have an easy integration of multiple accounts, like a 'combined inbox', so that I can use quip for private and professional purposes at the same time

\- For the desktop I'd like to have an app instead of editing text in the browser.

EDIT:

\- In order to make a really great product, add LaTeX support, esp. for maths

<comment><USER52> Maybe I should expand about why LaTeX is so important to me. I use it as my main text processor, not only because it produces nice maths. It allows to abstractly structure a document (e.g. by defining environments that give meaning to a paragraph, like summary, conclusion, proposal etc), it allows you to define new commands (like functions), variables, conditionals and much more. For me, LaTeX is something in between writing and programming, where content is strictly separated from the layout. That's why I especially like to use it for any creative activity, where a lot of ideas are floating around, which can not (yet) be forced into a consistent document. And alone the possibility to add comments in the source is indispensable.

</comment></comment><comment><USER53> I find inexact that word processing hasn't evolved since 1984. I have personnally been working at Atlassian and I can tell:

Confluence has seemlessly replaced Word in the company.

The "share" workflow is pervasive in a corporate communication tool, and the rich text editor makes it possible to build bigger, richer documents. The reason word processors per se are being side kicked is they're only useful to layout a letter.

</comment><comment><USER54> The danger in building a product like this is that you can try to be everything to everyone and end up being nothing to anyone. They've combatted this by positioning it as a simple word processor.

After playing with it, the product is much more than just a simple word processor. It's really well designed, especially considering how complex some of the ideas it tackles are.

Excited to see how things play out.

</comment><comment><USER55> No doubt, this is very hard to get right, it's amitious, and maybe these guys do get it right.

I wonder, though, whether it is a good idea to sell the product as this completely disruptive rethink of word processing as we know it. The "What Quip does differently" section certainly doesn't make it clear to me what that revolutionary difference is suppsed to be.

</comment><comment><USER56> All devices, except your laptop. Who actually wants to write more than a few sentences on anything but something with a keyboard?

<comment><USER57> > Today, we are extremely excited to launch Quip. Quip is a modern word > processor that enables you to create beautiful documents on any device — > phones, tablets and the desktop. If you haven't already, download Quip to > try it out.

Literally the first paragraph on the linked page.

</comment></comment><comment><USER58> Why doesn't this support external hyperlinking yet? That's what I don't get. It's like creating an epic meal and forgetting to offer a fork.

EDIT: I figured it out. I had to paste a URL in and then type over the hyperlink. That's far from intuitive. It's too bad, because it mars what appears to be an interesting product.

</comment><comment><USER59> Download as PDF skips all people/document mentions. I expected some alternative text or link, but it skips.

Screenshot of the Introduction to Quip PDF: [https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14308170/quip.png](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14308170/quip.png)

</comment><comment><USER60> Looks like a pretty great service, assuming markdown export/import is coming!

Also, every time I open the app (on the web), I am asked to link facebook or twitter for a profile picture. I'm happy to upload a profile picture, but I'm very upset about being constantly pestered to link social accounts!

</comment><comment><USER61> I wish developers would experiment with new ways of "typing" on touch-screen devices. And I put typing in quotes because maybe writing on touch-screen devices should take on a new form. This "disruptive shift" would not be complete without a better way of working on tablet.

</comment><comment><USER62> how is this wildly different than evernote? is it support of multiple types of documents (spreadsheets etc)? i was looking at the bullets under "what quip does differently", and i feel like evernote addresses all of those things. what am i missing?

</comment><comment><USER63> "We are starting with the word processor, but our mission is to eventually build the productivity suite for the mobile era." -> Intriguing!

Basically, google doc for mobile. That's not a bad idea seeing how google are closing products that people love.

</comment><comment><USER64> Are there really more users who own tablet + external keyboard, than those who own a laptop? (Even if it was for Apples only?)

I think writing documents, or doing any kind of work for that matter, on an iPad with external keyboard looks ridiculous.

</comment><comment><USER65> One suggestion I would like to see is a public permissions mode where anyone I share a link with can create an account and then be able to edit the doc. Looks great, very clean UI. I have been waiting for something like this!

</comment><comment><USER66> I'm curious as to how they were able to line up the NYT coverage [http://t.co/qCFneXpJwV](http://t.co/qCFneXpJwV) with the launch announcement. Any idea who reps them, PR-wise?

<comment><USER67> it's the former CTO of Facebook. My guess is no rep needed.

<comment><USER13> No rep needed if all they want is coverage. If they want to craft the message, they still need PR. The job just changes from selling the story to getting the right people to cover it in the right way.

That's why Apple still takes PR very seriously even though the media are going to cover all of their product launches anyway.

<comment><USER68> I think he meant "No rep needed [to get NYTimes to publish to their schedule]", not an overall piece of business advice

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER69> If you use gmail but don't want to use your google account for auth:

1) Enter email@example.com and try to sign up.

2) The form will now ask you for your name and password. Fix your email address and sign up.

(edit: first impression = google docs for mac users)

</comment><comment><USER70> I'm curious about the business features listed on the site -- what exactly do they mean by Remote Device Management? MDM, or app-level management from devices?

</comment><comment><USER71> I tuned out when I read "beautiful". If only writing something beautiful were as easy as picking the right word processor.

I'm amazing that anyone would enter the word processing space when we already have dominant players with years of experience doing the same.

I'm sticking to Google Drive. I don't see any advantage of Quip and like that google drive has many other features beyond Quip.

</comment><comment><USER72> finiteloop: Can you talk about the UI at all?

Are you using any open frameworks/tools to emulate the iOS interface & animations, or is it all homegrown? Will you be updating the UI when Apple releases iOS 7 (and your UI suddenly looks out of place)?

</comment><comment><USER73> It bothers me that it is free. What is the business plan? Are they going to sell my documents to advertisers in a few months?

</comment><comment><USER74> This is without a doubt the niggliest point ever: Your Twitter app description just says 'Quip application'.

</comment><comment><USER75> what's the elevator pitch for why users should look at this instead of iWork?

</comment><comment><USER76> sooo... trello meets google docs?</comment>


Balance – hold, trade, and use a basket of cryptoassets as cash - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/balance-now/balance-introduces-a-novel-way-to-buy-trade-and-use-a-diversified-basket-of-cryptoassets-as-cash-de86b84ff846 <comment><AUTHOR> A few more details around why we're building this. The last 3 years have shown that cryptocurrencies can successfully work for storing and exchanging value across the world. Yet despite increased consumer interest as crypto is breaking into early majority stream awareness, merchant integration has been severely lagging behind primarily due to high volatility and transaction fees. Most attempts at lowering volatility and creating a viable stablecoin, whether fiat or crypto-backed, with a centralized or decentralized issuance model, or based on seigniorage shares, have so far been unfruitful. We believe the future of digital money isn't using a single currency, but rather holding, trading, and using a diversified basket of cryptoassets. Buyers and sellers hold diversified, personalized baskets of cryptoassets which get moved in and out of an extremely high velocity medium of exchange at transaction time. For consumers, this eliminates the need to distinguish between investment and chequing accounts, enabling them to use their diversified portfolios as cash. For merchants, this enables them to mitigate volatility as much as desired, while bringing high velocity with virtually zero transaction fees. This is a new approach that hasn't been tried yet. Let us know what you think.</comment>


Ruby syntax for Objective C - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/supermarin/ObjectiveSugar

<comment><USER2> i don't want to be the buzz killer but there's rubymotion :)</comment>


Chinese Citizen Convicted of Stealing Saw and BAW Filters Technology – US DOJ - <AUTHOR> https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/chinese-citizen-convicted-economic-espionage-theft-trade-secrets-and-conspiracy <comment><USER2> What was unique about a saw filters? Or was it some secret improvement of them?</comment>


API is the future of marketing - <AUTHOR> http://www.businesseviaitaly.com/en/etiquette-/api-is-the-future-of-marketing.html <comment><USER2> GigaOM's article on API: "The Building Blocks for a Successful API Strategy" [http://gigaom.com/2011/03/19/the-building-blocks-for-a- succe...](http://gigaom.com/2011/03/19/the-building-blocks-for-a-successful- api-strategy/)</comment>


Ask HN: Best Post-NSA debacle Dropbox Alternative? - <AUTHOR>

BitTorrent Sync? Other options? <comment> workhere-io [http://www.jottacloud.com/](http://www.jottacloud.com/) \- Norwegian company. I don't know whether or not they have servers in the US, but you could always ask.

Edit: Their FAQ ([http://www.jottacloud.com/faq/](http://www.jottacloud.com/faq/)) says data is stored in Norway. Which AFAIK is better than the US in terms of privacy.

</comment><comment><USER2> [http://www.wuala.com/](http://www.wuala.com/) \- Swiss company. 5GB free storage for client-side encrypted data. The product offers backup and sync options for arbitrary folders and is supported across OSX, Linux, Windows, and Mobile. Backed by a big company (Lacie) who make USB drives. I have just switched to them from DB and have loved the experience so far.

</comment><comment><USER3> [https://www.tarsnap.com/](https://www.tarsnap.com/) usually comes up when talking about Dropbox alternatives, I have not used Tarsnap myself but I've seen many who have been pleased with it.

I am not sure if there are any big Dropbox competitors operating from outside the US (if NSA is your concern). There should be but I am not aware of any.

<comment><USER4> I use tarsnap and like it but it really isn't a dropbox alternative.

If you want client side encryption with close to dropbox functionality use spideroak, if you want snapshot/dedupped/backup + encryption use tarsnap.

<comment><USER3> Hmm, yes you are right.

Spideroak's functionality seems closer to Dropbox. Spideroak does seem more practical to use.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> [http://git-annex.branchable.com/assistant/](http://git- annex.branchable.com/assistant/) is still in active development. It is not exactly a Dropbox analogue, however it can easily fulfill the role of a synchronization agent with a cloud service (S3, Glacier, or similar).

It supports strong encryption.

</comment><comment><USER6> I've got encfs running on both MacOSX amd Linux, storing encrypted partitions on Dropbox, gDrive and BTSync.

What that isn't giving me yet is Dropbox style iOS integration. (though there's a promising looking BoxCryptor iOS app,mi haven't made time to test it yet)

</comment><comment><USER7> [https://mega.co.nz/](https://mega.co.nz/) ?</comment>


JDK 9: Pitfalls for the Unwary - <AUTHOR> https://www.azul.com/jdk-9-pitfalls-for-the-unwary/ <comment><USER2> Curious as to why, out of all the hundreds of deprecated calls in the JDK, it was those six methods that got removed.

<comment><USER3> If I recall correctly, those methods had dependencies that crossed the module boundaries in unpleasant ways, so that keeping them would mess up the module boundaries.

<comment><USER4> Correct. The parameter of those methods use(d) a class from the Swing desktop UI toolkit, and logging can't depend on that.

Parameter class in question: [http://download.java.net/java/jdk9/docs/api/java/beans/Prope...](http://download.java.net/java/jdk9/docs/api/java/beans/PropertyChangeListener.html)

<comment><USER5> Why java.beans.PropertyChangeListener is from Swing UI? Looks like part of Java Bean standard which is supposed to be just high-level reflection API. System thing, nothing wrong to depend on it.

<comment><USER6> > Why java.beans.PropertyChangeListener is from Swing UI?

Well the java.beans package and Swing UI are in the same module. Why? Because java.beans depends on AWT. Why? Because of interfaces like this [https://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/api/java/beans/BeanInf...](https://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/api/java/beans/BeanInfo.html) Could AWT und Swing still be split into different modules? Maybe. Does that mean that almost every Java application will have to deploy two UI toolkits, PLaFs and sound even if it's just a web service? Yes because almost every Java application at least indirectly depends on java.beans. Does Oracle or Java 9 / Jigsaw marketing care? No.

<comment><USER7> What's the use case for java.beans in a non-GUI application? Why do you say almost every Java application depends on it?

<comment><USER5> It's hard to imagine an application without getters and setters. Now if you want to read/write those beans in a generic way, you need to use reflection. And correct approach is to use java.beans classes instead of rolling your own low-level solution.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> if you are interested, these are the slides of the talk referenced in the article [https://www.slideshare.net/SimonRitter/55-new-features-in- jd...](https://www.slideshare.net/SimonRitter/55-new-features-in-jdk-9)

</comment><comment><USER9> Cached version: [https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Pkk2OK...](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Pkk2OKf6IgYJ:https://www.azul.com/jdk-9-pitfalls- for-the-unwary/)

</comment><comment><USER10> One wonders what the point of working so hard for backwards compatibility is if they're just going to introduce breaking changes anyways.

<comment><USER11> Really? Getting rid of a few rarely used and deprecated APIs (for the first time EVER) in a 21-year-old ecosystem is enough to discount the value of those 21 years of backwards compatibility?

<comment><USER10> Literally? Yes. I can understand maintaining backwards compatibility, and there's nothing wrong with it, but if the design commitee is willing go back on that now, why limit themselves to such tiny changes? The difference between these APIs existing and not existing is miniscule - what's the point of removing them at all? They've made a breaking build for no benefit, and it just smacks of laziness.

<comment><USER12> There really is a reason though, and it's described in one of the sibling comments to your original comment. Why would you assume that the developers are just being "lazy"? Do you really think they would just delete the functions for no reason?

<comment><USER10> > Do you really think they would just delete the functions for no reason?

What part of my comment suggested that? I'm just asking why "backwards compatibility above all" is no longer being followed as a principle if it's cost the language so much in the first place? The developers have clearly worked hard in the past to introduce new features without breaking changes, but if the API is going the break, then you might as well go whole-hog - "we can't make this highly-anticipated new feature" seems like a great reason to justify a slew of other changes that Java sorely needs. It's a job half-done.

<comment><USER13> what would purity in this instance serve? this is the real world, we don't have to be all-or-nothing for the sake of it. tradeoffs are a legitimate path, and this is a terribly small one

<comment><USER10> It would maintain actual backwards compatibility, since that is the hill Java has been dying on for 8 minor versions.

This tradeoff is between two principles which really shouldn't be compromised on - there is no halfway for backwards compatibility where you can only break _some_ APIs and get away with it. If the designers are willing to sacrifice rarely-used parts of the language to make way for new features, then there are plenty of other places that are begging for a nip and tuck as well. They don't have to overhaul the language completely, but it's not like there aren't areas in need of improvement where change wouldn't affect 99.999% of existing code, as is the case with these APIs. Abandoning purity for this little of a modification is practically an insult to all the people who have demanded change in the past.

This has brought about what should be Java 2.0 (or however you would represent that in their strange version counting system) by right, and it's been botched.

<comment><USER14> 1) It is a major revision: it's called Java 9.

2) This is a very mature, professional, thoughtful, low impact way to break backwards compatibility. It is also a break for a very good idea: core library modularization.

3) Emotionally, it sounds like you've staked out this hill that you're set on dying upon. I think you're prepping yourself for some unnecessary suffering. Your words sound incredibly binary. Real world engineering is about finding balance: all solutions are trade-offs because we're optimizing many variables.

<comment><USER10> Java numbers work differently - presumably to build up the hype of new releases. Java version x is in fact version 1.x, a minor revision from Java 1.0. This started with Java 5, and is still visible if you do `java version` today since it correctly displays the 1.x version - in my case, 1.8.

>It is also a break for a very good idea: core library modularization.

I understand perfectly well the justification they have for breaking backwards compatibility, and that's not the point - the question is why this justification is now accepted above the principle of backwards compatibility in such a way that they've permitted no other changes which would have a similar impact on users. The designers have made a major change - why go halfway?

<comment><USER15> > _The designers have made a major change - why go halfway?_

Because you're not supposed to slide head down on the first slippery slope you encounter...</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Will stdio outlive us? - <AUTHOR> http://elliotth.blogspot.com/2008/12/will-stdio-outlive-us.html

<comment><USER2> some of these are legitimate complaints. but i'm having trouble working up any outrage, because i like the stdio interface. personally, i paper over the defects by not using stdio directly. i write wrappers around it, then write tests, neither of which has to be revisited very often.

i guess the most pressing issue is shaky support for anything but ascii. that's dealt with in the short term via utf8, and in the long term by expanding the size of 'char' to 32 bits, i hope.

</comment><comment><USER3> If you learn C from a text that is worth anything (K&R comes to mind) you learn how to address this so called 'EOF error' from the beginning. If I remember right, K&R does not even introduce the character primitive until after it introduces getchar(). All of the examples use an int.

</comment><comment><USER4> For my money it is the only IO API one need ever learn.

Good point on signed/unsigned. I think in most cases char is unisgned, i.e., in most environments, so this is not a problem. But can't you do something like:

char c

while( (c = getchar() & 0xff) != EOF) { //Do something }

if you are in a signed environment?

I think really stdio is rather like my experience with mexican food. I live in Austin, Texas now, and I love mexican food, the hotter the better, but as a kid I lived in eldritch New England, not far from the Miskatonic river, and felt I didn't "like" spicey food, being more used to lobster, clam chowder, and so forth. Now they can't put enough jalepenos in a burger for my liking. Similarly, being 27, and thus living in the "java age", I first taught myself to program with the Java SDK, which spares one from alot of these "pitfalls". But now I like the control, and also the relative simplicity of the API, that stdio gives one, arguably more intuitive and easier to remember than in Java, and given a choice between Java and C, I would go with the later. It is an acquired taste.

To paraphrase Charleton Heston:

"They will take my [stdio] away out my cold, dead hands!"

:-)

<comment><USER5> From K&R:

      We also declare 'c' to be an int, not a char, so it can
      hold the value which getchar returns. As we shall see in
      Chapter 2, this value is actually an int, since it must be
      capable of representing EOF in addition to all possible
      'char's.</comment></comment>


Facebook Data Collected by Quiz App Included Private Messages - <AUTHOR> https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/04/10/technology/facebook-cambridge-analytica-private-messages.html <comment><USER2> Why is it surprising or even remotely controversial that an app that people explicitly authorized to access their messages (informed consent) then proceeded to access their messages? The app didn't have access to friends' messages, so I don't see what the issue is here, other than yet another clickbait headline.

<comment><USER3> Why is it even possible for an app to request your Facebook messages though?

<comment><USER4> There are a lot of valid uses. Why would it be better for your data to be locked up and unexportable?

<comment><USER5> False equivalence. Exportable doesn't mean acessible to the world.

<comment><USER6> The commenter didn't make that "false equivalence." Their point is that there are valid reasons a user might want to allow an application to access their messages.

For example, reddit's API allows applications to access messages, which is useful for third party clients.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> What's scary is that Cambridge Analytica is probably only one of hundreds, maybe thousands, of companies that had access to this type of data from Facebook. This is just the one we know about.

<comment><USER8> Cambridge Analytica didn't pay to access this data. They got users to give it to them for free though Facebook's developer platform.

<comment><USER7> Thanks for the correction, I thought CA paid for access to the data the test collected.

<comment><USER8> My understanding is the "quiz app" was more of a phishing scheme to get users to share their Facebook data with Cambridge Analytica (including data that user had access to about their friends).

<comment><USER9> I believe they also paid users a small fee to install the quiz app via Mechanical Turk.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> The headline is misleading. The article isn't about Cambridge Analytica:

"Because of an editing error, an earlier version of a headline with this article misidentified the entity that improperly harvested the personal information of up to 87 million Facebook users. The information was collected though a quiz app developed by the researcher Aleskandr Kogan, not by the consulting firm Cambridge Analytica."

"It is not clear whether the direct messages were among the data eventually provided to Cambridge Analytica. In an interview on Tuesday, Mr. Kogan told The Times that the private messages were harvested from a limited number of people, likely "a couple thousand," as part of a separate academic research project and never provided to Cambridge Analytica."

<comment><USER11> It's all part of the CA story:

"Aleksandr Kogan, a Moldovan-born researcher from Cambridge University, admits harvesting the personal details of 30 million Facebook users via a personality app he developed.

He then passed the data to Cambridge Analytica who assured him this was legal, he said. "

From [https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/21/facebook- row...](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/21/facebook-row-i-am- being-used-as-scapegoat-says-academic-aleksandr-kogan-cambridge-analytica)

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Cynical me feels that it's a hell of a coincidence Facebook is acknowledging this data leak just over a month before the GDPR legislation (and fines) drops on 25th May.

<comment><USER13> This wasn't a leak, it was a feature that existed on Facebook for several years before being removed.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> yet Zuckerberg is testifying as I write, denying, dodging the responsibility and questions. I can't believe it, instead of laying down and confessing, he is trying to justify and blame everyone but Facebook.

<comment><USER15> He accepted blame for quite a bit, and apologized (as he usually does)

The part I don't understand about all of this is that, yes somewhere along the line someone made the decision that giving developers access to that data was ok...but they REMOVED access to it as soon as they realized what sharing that data meant. That's how startups are trained to behave, shoot first ask questions later.

They made a mistake and corrected on their own, what more is there to ask? I guess it's more of an issue because of the nature of their business?

<comment><USER16> >what more is there to ask?

(1) Make an ernest attempt to use ML, algorithms to identify _their_ customers who are using those _leaked_ datasets Facebook _negligently_ exposed and help devalue the data, instead of eagerly selling them targeted advertising services? I don't know if they did this, but it sure seems doubtful.

(2) Quickly and openly disclose the extent of the _leaked_ data

(3) Stop using manipulative and deliberately opaque TOS to enable ever more data collection

I'm not being sarcastic or insincere, this is my honest opinion of that they _could_ have done. I am continually surprised at how many people making $$$ in ad-tech/PII data mining and brokering seem niave to the fact that this type of behavior would inevitably result in exponential growth of user outrage

<comment><USER17> > (1) Make an ernest attempt to use ML, algorithms to identify their customers > who are using those leaked datasets Facebook negligently exposed and help > devalue the data, instead of eagerly selling them targeted advertising > services? I don't know if they did this, but it sure seems doubtful.

How could they do that? The cat is out of the bag and FB aren't going to have any knowledge about where that data is now. Have there been reports of it getting out from CA?

> (2) Quickly and openly disclose the extent of the leaked data

I think some caution is a good idea, they don't want to get the numbers wrong - although they are making steps in the right direction with the message to 87 million on their news feeds.

<comment><USER16> True, it's not easy to do, and maybe it's not feasable to determine who is using the data. I don't know, maybe someone from Facebook will chime in on the issue, or leak some more info about company behavior.

>I think some caution is a good idea, they don't want to get the numbers wrong - although they are making steps in the right direction with the message to 87 million on their news feeds.

Totally agree with the second part, but ~4 years (only divulging the info when forced to during PR damage control mode) is well past being cautious. It's being cautious with the amount of damage the disclosure does to your profits, Equifax doesn't even wait that long.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Facebook has already updated the numbers from from 47 million to 80 something million. This is going going to go bigger than Yahoo scale: "all accounts and all data" pretty quickly

<comment><USER10> The data accessed here was from a smaller unrelated research study. The only thing it has in common with the larger CA leak is that it was done by the same researcher.

<comment><USER18> That's a pretty significant aspect. I'm sure he stole plenty more data in other unrelated studies

<comment><USER19> This data wasn't stolen.

<comment><USER18> Just borrowed and used inappropriately. Not "stolen"

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> oh-kumudo Private messages? There is ZERO excuse for such leak. It is either utterly incompetence or intentionally malicious. Facebook needs to be hold accountable, period.

<comment><USER20> By leak you mean people giving consent when presented with the list of permissions the app / quiz requested?

I think the outrageous part is that app developers could get data of their users' friends - those are the people that never used the app or agreed to its permissions.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> It's amazing that FB is up 4.5 percent.

<comment><USER22> He's not under oath, [from what I've read] the majority of the committee members have received campaign donations from FB, and some committee members own FB stock. In other words, the market knows that this is a charade.

<comment><USER23> Watching pretty much every hearing for last 8 years, it was shocking to me how nice, friendly and understanding they were. Other than Cruz, they all turned from daily wolves to sheep.

Either it is campaign contribution or perhaps without understanding technology, most are afraid what Mark can learn about them running queries on their personal messengers.

Never ever seen them so nice, including questions if he wants a break now to which crowd laughed; they treated him like he is 8 years old. Incredible! No wonder he shook his head smiling for more questions!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Around 2011+ we saw not only quiz apps but also offerings such as "See who views your profile" that would result in an OAuth authorisation. How long were those authorisations active before being revoked? How much data was exfiltrated, then and since, and to whom?

If it wasn't for recent changes to authorisations being suspended after a period of time these tokens could be seemingly worth something to the right person.

The root problem being, average users don't know what they're giving access to and know why its important to be critical of such access.

</comment><comment><USER25> How was this possible? I don't recall ever having access to private messages in the FB API. Was this ever available to developers?

<comment><USER26> Apparently, v1.0 of the Facebook Graph API could access users' private messages via the 'read_mailbox' API request [1]. This was deprecated when v2.0 launched.

" _Version 1.0 of the Graph API launched on April 21, 2010. It was deprecated in April 2014 and closed completely to legacy apps (ie, existing apps that used the API before April 2014) on April 30, 2015._ "

[1] [https://medium.com/tow-center/the-graph-api-key-points-in- th...](https://medium.com/tow-center/the-graph-api-key-points-in-the-facebook- and-cambridge-analytica-debacle-b69fe692d747)

<comment><USER27> But why? Why would anyone set up an API access to PRIVATE messages. That's crazy :o

<comment><USER28> On one hand it's actually a fairly reasonable API. Imagine using third-party AIM clients a decade or more ago. Same kind of thing.

<comment><USER29> They never provided ability to send messages. This is a useless thing for AIM clients.

<comment><USER30> You used to be able to connect to facebook messenger via XMPP. Combined with this permission, it would have let you retrieve historical messages and add persistence among alternative clients.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9266769](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9266769)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> "Private messages" as in those sent via Facebook Messenger, right? Not Secret Conversations, Facebook's allegedly e2e messaging product [1]?

[1] [https://www.facebook.com/help/messenger- app/1084673321594605...](https://www.facebook.com/help/messenger- app/1084673321594605/)

<comment><USER32> I don't think Facebook's e2e messenger existed at the time this took place.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> Title should be: "Whoops, looks like you gave that one quiz app all your private messages too, you idiot!"

</comment><comment><USER34> Unfortunately for startups, I think that the only solution is to make it too expensive and complicated for the businesses to collect any unnecessary data. Like dealing with credit cards, no devs in their right mind would want to process CCs by themselves because it's such a huge risk and pain in the ass to be fully PCI compliant. We all outsource that part of the work to 3rd party processors because of the regulations. Why not do the same for the personal data, make it a very high risk for the business to process it directly and the majority will avoid dealing with anything that is not absolutely needed by their business model.

</comment><comment><USER35> The alternative is open source and decentralised: [https://diasporafoundation.org](https://diasporafoundation.org)

</comment><comment><USER36> Do they mean "wall posts" or "messages"? Did Facebook ever produce an API that let any developer see private Messenger messages?

</comment><comment><USER37> When it comes to "social media" I'm not easily stumped, but I had to do a double take at that headline.

</comment><comment><USER38> A neutral discussion on surveillance and adtech cannot happen here because of the makeup of the audience.

It's undeniable too many people from the SV tech community are deeply vested in the business either as workers of Google, Facebook or part of the large multi billion dollar ad ecosystem.

The fact is tech people made pompous claims about liberty and freedom and then sold out the moment they had personal gain. This is not their fault, the history of ethical posturing consistently plays out this way and capitalism incentives leaves little room for ethics making regulation the only workable option.

The default reaction is thus to minimize accountability, blame others, apologism, hand waving or deny the issue altogether. Every discussion gets mired in the same basic first principles of freedom and privacy.

If you can't behave ethically you have no basis to expect ethical behavior from others, or for an ethical society. You make the bed, you lie in it.

</comment><comment><USER39> I am afraid the details and extent of breach may never come out</comment>


A refrigerator that runs without electricity - <AUTHOR> http://business.rediff.com/slide-show/2010/jun/10/slide-show-1-fridge-that-runs-without-electricity.htm

<comment><USER2> I'd be careful calling it a refrigerator. It's a box that is well insulated.

<comment><USER3> Basically it's just an old fashioned icebox without the benefits of actual ice. He also talks about his other "invention" which is a water filter made from clay. Clay water filters have been available in India for a long long time. I recall seeing them 30 years ago. I suspect that they might be effective for some larger parasites but certainly not something I'd want to entrust my health to.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> A better refrigerator that runs without electricity: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_refrigerator>

</comment><comment><USER5> Same thing on 1 page ? I hate feeling controlled by the content I read…

</comment><comment><USER6> Clay pressure cooker? I'll watch from a distance, thanks.</comment>


Ask HN: Learning DSP witha software development background? - non-entity I notice that DSP is something normal taught in an electrical engineering background, however I see it in job listings for lower level software development roles.
I'm a software develope, both professionally and as a hobbyist for years. I have no formal education whatsoever, and am weak on mathematics, especially in subjects you would find in an engineering program as prerequisites to signals courses.
Is there a good way for someone with a software background to learn DSP, like a course taking that background into consideration? Would I have to work through the full equivalent of the math taught in a university setting? I don't mind paying for something as long as it's not several thousand dollars, but I dobt want to purchase something and realize in way over my head with no hope. <comment><AUTHOR> I would like to recommend _" The Scientist and Engineer's Guide to Digital Signal Processing"_ by Steven W. Smith. It is free to read online or download at [https://www.dspguide.com/](https://www.dspguide.com/)

It is suited for the reader that does not possess a heavy mathematical background; in fact, the author writes:

"This book was written for scientists and engineers in a wide variety of fields: physics, bio-engineering, geology, oceanography, mechanical and electrical engineering, to name just a few. The goal is to present practical techniques while avoiding the barriers of detailed mathematics and abstract theory. To achieve this goal, three strategies were employed in writing this book:

First, the techniques are explained, not simply proven to be true through mathematical derivations. While much of the mathematics is included, it is not used as the primary means of conveying the information. Nothing beats a few well written paragraphs supported by good illustrations.

[...]

Second, complex numbers are treated as an advanced topic, something to be learned after the fundamental principles are understood.

[...]

Third, very simple computer programs are used."

</comment><comment><USER2> Alan Downey's Think DSP : [https://greenteapress.com/wp/think- dsp/](https://greenteapress.com/wp/think-dsp/) Free, python, code examples in Juypter notebooks.

</comment><comment><USER3> _however I see it in job listings for lower level software development roles._

Is that the only reason you're interested in DSP?

<comment> non-entity Nah, I've done some audio related challenges in the past that were cool. I added that note because I find it interesting that development positions want the skill despite it not being a CS thing.

<comment><USER3> _I 've done some audio related challenges in the past that were cool_

Focus on that. Cool projects is the best way to learn DSP (or anything else for that matter).</comment></comment></comment>


Save Arm - Arm is being sold to Nvidia. Help Stop it - <AUTHOR> https://www.savearm.co.uk/ <comment><USER2> I'm a U.S. citizen, and to be honest I think this acquisition is a terrible idea to approve. The tech world does not need _more_ consolidation, and if nothing else, I don't like the idea of the seeming big push of the U.S. toward trying to get a stranglehold on semiconductor designs, direct or indirect, regardless of our national interest in doing so.

Until our country reacquainted itself with the importance of the importance of firm anti-trust and monopoly breaking again, please folks, as tempting as it may look, don't bloody sell to us.</comment>


My Mental Health Story: Depression, Plagiarism, and Analysis - <AUTHOR> http://blog.zactownsend.com/my-mental-health-story-depression-plagiarism-and-analysis/

<comment><USER2> Very deep and interesting story! I really like the way you accept facts from your life,it may affect other people's life in a good way - made me think about alot of mistakes I did before and motivated me to try thinking your way! Really appriciated your story! I'm interested in motivational,inspirational and useful videos and articles,if you're into that too,check my site hardquotes.com ! Have a positive day!</comment>


Ask HN:What are the lessons of the Demonoid downtime? - <AUTHOR>

Why is the whole thing dependent on one mysterious person? And where are they? <comment><USER2> I second that friend! I thought these p2p sites made money from adds so whats the deal? Pirate Bay is like a diseased ghetto in comparison to Demonoid.

<comment><AUTHOR> I agree. I really miss the books and comics.</comment></comment>