E-Cigarettes Bring Smokers Back Inside, For Now - <AUTHOR> http://www.npr.org/2013/04/27/179490799/e-cigarettes-bring-smokers-back-inside-for-now <comment><USER5> Good luck keeping people from using them anywhere. They don't smell, so non- smokers aren't going to complain (I've been using e-cigs at work for two years and never received any complaints, in fact one person who sits five feet from me wasn't aware that I did it). The only people who've ever asked me to stop using them in restaurants and bars are staff (and only two instances in two years of regularly going out with e-cigs), and they're only doing it because they're afraid of getting into trouble with whatever regulators might crack down on them.

Electronic cigarettes should be left the hell alone. I've never seen a more successful smoking cessation tool. Trying to heavy-handedly 'regulate' them so they aren't as easy or affordable to use will only ensure that people keep smoking regular cigarettes. Of course, the more paranoid side of my brain reminds me that a lot of tax revenue comes from old fashioned cigarette sales, and perhaps governments will want to protect those revenues.

<comment><USER6> a- e-cigarettes do smell. The fact that you have had few complaints may reflect the fact that people are courteous and do not like to get into arguments. I have very much liked to complain several times about e-cigarettes myself.

b- they almost certainly harm people around you although the harm may be less than that of secondary smoke.

c - your last argument obviously does not apply to the present situation. If you ban e-cigarettes in places where cigarettes are already banned, then this ban would not cause an e-cigarette smoker to start smoking ordinary cigarettes. In fact, the contrary is true -- if smokers can smoke e-cigarettes in places in situations where they cannot smoke ordinary cigarettes, that very well may result in an increase of smoking.

You can smoke your e-cigarettes in places and situations where cigarette smoking is allowed.

<comment><USER7> A - You sometimes get a whiff of the smell. 90%+ of the time a nonsmoker is going to like the smell because people vape things like cake and fruit flavors. Even smells people might find objectionable dissipate quickly. The stench doesn't hang on the users' clothing at all like regular cigarettes. I'm not sure what sort of situation you would have to be in to be bothered...

B - Got some proof that secondhand vapor causes harm? Here is reference to a published indoor air quality study showing:

"Comparisons of pollutant concentrations were made between e-cigarette vapor and tobacco smoke samples. Pollutants included VOCs, carbonyls, PAHs, nicotine, TSNAs, and glycols. From these results, risk analyses were conducted based on dilution into a 40 m3 room and standard toxicological data. Non- cancer risk analysis revealed "No Significant Risk" of harm to human health for vapor samples from e-liquids (A-D). In contrast, for tobacco smoke most findings markedly exceeded risk limits indicating a condition of "Significant Risk" of harm to human health. With regard to cancer risk analysis, no vapor sample from e-liquids A-D exceeded the risk limit for either children or adults. The tobacco smoke sample approached the risk limits for adult exposure."

<http://www.ivaqs.com/>

There's more and more very positive research all the time. Ecig users shouldn't have to prove that it is 100% safe. It is pretty clearly far safer than smoking and a great benefit to the health of people who are unable or unwilling to quit.

C - "that very well may result in an increase of smoking."

Pure speculation on your part. "

<comment><USER8> > Got some proof that secondhand vapor causes harm?

Why is "harm" needed? If I am next to you I'm not interested in you forcing me to take drugs. I don't need to demonstrate harm, I just don't want you to send me drugs.

At least put a filter on the thing so no nicotine comes out of it (i.e. you breath both in and out of it, through the filter).

<comment><USER7> "I'm not interested in you forcing me to take drugs."

You have got to be kidding me. Whatever amount of nicotine you are getting from secondhand vapor is TINY. You are not getting drugged. It has no psychoactive effects or addictive potential at that level.

Since that whole line of thinking is ridiculous, we consider harm. Being near cooking food, say your neighbors having a BBQ, exposes you to volatile N'-nitrosamines, similar to one of the groups of compounds shown to have some carcinogenic potential in smoking.

These types of things are not found in ecigs (or only in incredibly tiny amounts). There is no burning, carbon monoxide, etc. You are getting more harm from stuff like cleaning product fumes or other air pollution from cars/industry.

<comment><USER9> With almost no independent studies being done on e-cigs and their impact on the environment around you almost none of the claims you just made can be substantiated as either true or shown to be false.

We need more reliable data.

In general e-cigs should be restricted until they're proven safe. Basically treated like any other kind of cigarette. It is clear from this thread and elsewhere that smokers have zero consideration for others.

<comment><USER7> There's tons of credible evidence out there that ecigs do not contain most of the carcinogens in burning cigarettes. Even studies done by scientists with big pharma funding will at least mostly acknowledge this.

Ecigs are clearly not "100% safe" but the same goes for the food you eat and all other types of things you put in your body. it isn't about proving 100% safety. It's about showing a vast reduction in harm for people who are addicted to and dying from smoking.

Speaking of "zero consideration for others", anti-nicotine zealots take a quit or die stance. You would rather ban ecigs and force people back to smoking?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> E-Cigarettes are are excellent litmus test for the prohibitionist brigade - <USER2> shows clearly that it's not about safety or health, it's about control and some misguided puritan ideal.

<comment><USER6> How do you know that it is not about safety or health? Do you have any study that says they are safe? It is amazing how many delusions a little marketing can create.

<comment><USER11> I agree with you.

But the reason cigarettes are banned is because they affect other people.

American rules/regulations aren't built around the concept of proving something is safe. Tobacco is different from the norm because of how much evidence exists to prove its harm

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> "Local governments are already taking steps to limit e-smoking in places where traditional smoking is banned"

For no health reason, but for governments to demonstrate their power and how they are doing something - a bit like the pre-flight security theater.

The fact that we have a technological replacement better than the original (ie no tars or carcinogens) while giving the sample pleasure (nicotine, inhaling) should be ground enough to change the laws in the other direction - <USER3> allowing e-cigarattes wherever they are possible..

But this is not about logic. The new habitus sees tobacco as low class and bad [http://www.powercube.net/other-forms-of-power/bourdieu- and-h...](http://www.powercube.net/other-forms-of-power/bourdieu-and-habitus/)

Why I am not surprised the government will fight against it, regardless of the scientific facts or the right to pursue happiness?

EDIT: From the original article "The FDA has said that it plans to assert regulatory authority over electronic cigarettes" - just like every government agency looking for a piece of the cake, while consumers will suffer.

There is another good article on e-cigarettes on [http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21573986-world- should-...](http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21573986-world-should- welcome-electronic-cigarette-no-smoke-why-fire)

"Smoking tobacco is the most dangerous voluntary activity in the world. More than 5m people die every year of the consequences. That is one death in ten."

Want to save human lives? Don't regulate e-cigarettes- in fact, it might be a better idea to GIVE THEM AWAY in poor countries instead of spending the same amount to procure them with expansive drugs that may help at best a hundred people per year (cancer drugs are expansive, and except in specific cases their efficiency is limited. we still have a lot to learn).

Since people will consume tobacco products anyway, we might as well give them the good stuff that won't give them cancer, our last technology - that's e-cigarettes, instead of exporting the old foul smelling plant.

We are talking about the potential to save 5'000'000 humans _every year_.

It _should_ be about _helping_ people, not just subsidizing the agricultural industry or making _feel good_ but ultimately counter-productive actions.

But reason won't prevail. It will be a sad thing to watch.

EDIT2: I originally said "it is about", which is an incorrect formulation since it could be interpreted as a statement on how current systems work. It was ironic, and may not have been very clear.

<comment><USER13> The FDA should most definitely regulate e-cigs in some way. If not the vaporizers, then certainly the fluid. At the very least, I would want my country's regulatory body (Canadian here) to at least enforce labeling and quality standards (if you claim your fluid is 95% propylene glycol, and 5% nicotine concentrate, then you better be selling that). As a customer, I do not have the expertise, equipment, nor funding to do this testing myself, just as I do not have the expertise, equipment, nor funding to determine if ibuprofen actually has the stated amount of active ingredient, that my free range chicken actually is free range chicken, that my nicotine patches contain nicotine, etc.

<comment><USER14> I believe he means the FDA will impose restrictions that will reduce the use of e-cigarettes. Not precisely what "regulate" means, but a common connotation.

<comment><USER15> Is there any indication that the FDA will actually do this?

<comment><USER14> There are already FDA regulations which severely restrict their advertising, FTA:

 _"The companies are not allowed to market them as smoking cessation devices because that would put them in the category of other nicotine replacement products that are regulated by the FDA, such as nicotine gum or patches," Felberbaum says._

Certianly this slows down their adoption. This is his point: FDA restricting something harmful without regard for harm reduction. This kills people, in the net.

<comment><USER15> I think you are quite confused about the issue. This is not a restriction imposed by the FDA, this is a restriction manufacturers impose on themselves. There would be no problem marketing those cigarettes as smoking cessation devices, they would then just fall under the same rules as other such devices (nicotine patches, gum) and manufacturers don't want that.

That's the issue. Surely, if those cigarettes are marketed as smoking cessation devices they should have to follow the same rules as other such devices have to follow.

As to why those devices are more tightly regulated? Well, duh. They claim to have a medical effect. If you want to claim that you better, well …

This seemed perfectly clear from this passage in the article. You seem to be quite confused about it.

<comment><USER14> _There would be no problem marketing those cigarettes as smoking cessation devices, they would then just fall under the same rules as other such devices (nicotine patches, gum) and manufacturers don't want that._

If they are being deterred, then maybe the FDA regulation is too burdensome.

<comment><USER15> Well, that's a nice get-out-of-jail-free card for those manufacturers, isn't it?

I'm sorry, but if you want to claim that something is a smoking cessation device you better back it up with solid evidence. If you don't want to, you can still sell it, but don't claim it's something you didn't prove it is.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I quit smoking 1.5 packs a day about 120 days ago, and started out with 36mg nicotine/ml e-liquid, and have cut down to 6mg/ml e-liquid. In another month, I should be off nicotine completely.

I use a eGo Twist/iClear16 (w/ iClear30 heads) at work, and CCTS/IGO-L at home. The variety of flavors are endless, and none smell up the office, my home, hands, or clothes. Even if they did stink as bad as regular smokes, who would really complain about smelling Watermelon, Pear & Honey, Ecto Cooler (yes!) or Swedish Fish when they come to visit me?

After switching, I don't: 1\. Smell like an ashtray 2\. Lose my breath walking up a few sets of stairs 3\. Take several 15 minute breaks at work 4\. Spend $300(!) per month 5\. Have fears of emphysema and/or lung cancer in my future.

My doctor is happy with the results. So am I.

<comment><USER17> are there any completely nicotine free e-cigarettes? I'm tempted to start using them just for the fun of inhaling and exhaling smoke and having something between my fingers to fiddle with...

This is half in jest, but I used to be a smoker, and one aspect I really enjoyed was the whole ceremony involved with smoking. The habitual aspect of it (something to do when you're waiting for somebody, something to twiddle with...) was perhaps stronger than the physical addiction when I quit.

<comment><USER18> <http://www.mtbakervapor.com> is dirt-cheap, very good, and has a zero nicotine option for all their juices. I recommend Orange Dream Bar, Hot Chocolate, or Ecto Cooler.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> The rush of moral righteousness and overall feeling of superiority that non- smokers must get when they are agitating are obvious very addictive and I think that should be regulated.

It's amazing how far the brainwashing have gone in regards to anything remotely smoking related. Otherwise sensible and thinking people throw out all sense of consideration, respect and balance and start repeating "Smoking is bad, smoking should be banned", no matter what the consequences are.

And when we are talking about e-cig it is very clear to me that none of the objections are about health or genuine care for those affected, at all. At best, the supporting arguments for that are severe exaggerations - <USER4> should be obvious with minimum of critical thinking.

</comment><comment><USER20> As an asthmatic, e-cigarettes induce my asthma just as well as normal cigarettes, it only takes a longer time to have the same quantitative effect. I do hope they get regulated, and soon, because this is seriously going to hamper my ability to enjoy social activities.

The lack of odor is actually problematic. I was not able to quit a place before the inset of an asthmatic attack in a couple of restaurants because I didn't smell anything until it was too late.

I'm actually used to that (several substances do the same), but it's only in the last year or so that I increasingly attributed that to e-cigarettes because people feel "it's ok".

Even if I wasn't asthmatic, I would still be pissed as hell to be sniffing nicotine just for the addiction of somebody else. It's not a drug powder that you can contain and keep it to yourself.

<comment><USER21> Maybe I should lobby for the regulation of flowers indoors because pollen upsets my hay-fever.

> _I would still be pissed as hell to be sniffing nicotine just for the > addiction of somebody else._

Don't worry, even sitting right next to someone who is using one, you are almost certainly not "sniffing nicotine".

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> I'm as anti-smoking as they come, and it enrages me that Greece is stuck in the middle ages in that regard. People smoke everywhere, inside and out, and you can't go to a bar without inhaling loads of smoke. I would like nothing better than to see smoke-free indoors environments, but smokers here have a huge sense of entitlement, their mindset being "if it bothers you, go somewhere else".

All that said, there's no reason to ban e-cigarettes. They don't smell, they don't make my eyes/throat hurt, they aren't obtrusive in any way, unless you're trying to inhale the other person's smoke as it comes out of their nose. As long as it doesn't bother other people, it shouldn't be banned, and e-cigarettes don't bother other people.

<comment><USER23> Some of them don't smell (or at least the odor isn't nearly as much of an issue). There is at least one that my boss uses all day long that make it so that anyone within 40 feet of him knows it. I have no idea what kind he's managed to find though as it has no labeling and some bizarre cartridge.

<comment><USER24> I'd be happy if you asked him what he smokes for me. I stopped smoking a pipe half a year ago (earlier I was smoking cigs) and I sometimes miss that heavy, but quite good smelling smoke from the pipe.

<comment><USER23> I will next time I remember, but he's notorious for being hard to find when you want to ask him something. It looks ALMOST like this[1] but is larger. The cartridges are about like this[2] but the body is that thick all the way down. Given the fact that he's said before he goes through a cartridge a day I suspect he's gone and found whatever the largest capacity one there is, possibly from outside the US (at least I wouldn't put that past him).

[1] [http://www.info-electronic- cigarettes.com/images/ManWithEcig...](http://www.info-electronic- cigarettes.com/images/ManWithEcig_3.jpg) [2] <http://www.ecigsbuy.com/images/l/201211/13535904500.jpg>

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Love love love my e-cig. No one has a clue in the office.

I quit smoking quite a while back, but I still had cheaters from time to time. I really think nicotine has a much more permanent effect on the brain than we are led to believe.

If you don't smoke, don't go near the stuff, but if you do, you really should try it.

<comment><USER9> Nobody has a clue you're exposing them to toxic, carcinogenic chemicals in the office you mean.

Maybe you should show some consideration to others and smoke outside.

<comment><USER21> Please stop spreading baseless information.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> For what it's worth they now make smokeless hookah. It's basically stones that are pressure injected with flavored vegetable oil, and they're free of tobacco and nicotine.

[https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&hl=en&q=...](https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&hl=en&q=smoking+stones+hookah&revid=1520962025&sa=X&ei=Lo58UfCXG4no0wHiyIDwCw&ved=0CG8Q1QIoAQ&biw=480&bih=268)

I've never tried them, though there are a few different brands you can find on Amazon, some of which actually have pretty good reviews.

<comment><USER7> It isn't vegetable oil. Hydrocarbon oils would be dangerous to inhale potentially. This would be closer to ecigs than a regular hookah and hookah is safer than cigarettes because you are vaporizing versus burning. Still this is probably a bit mroe dangerous than ecigs because you still have burning coals.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> They're an interesting one in terms of 'should you use them around non- smokers', as there's no statistics on exhaled contents of nicotine (that I've seen) so it's quite difficult to make a call in terms of second hand health risk. First hand health risk? It's your body so do what you want.

There's other issues, do they smell? Yes, some do, they have flavourings in that will impart a smell. However it's quite faint in a lot of cases, it bothers my girlfriend in the car but not at home. Is it anti-social? Depends on the social group you're in, I generally hang around with smokers (maybe there's some selection bias inherent in social groupings due to the smoking ban) and a couple of us have shifted to e-cigarettes (traditional style and vape style) and no one minds. I wouldn't use one in a restaurant but I would in a pub or nightclub.

Hopefully they'll avoid regulating them for a while, but there's rumblings of regulation on the horizon in the EU.

</comment><comment><USER28> These things were a godsend to me quitting BUT they do need to be studied to find out if they also have long term harms.

</comment><comment><USER29> >The FDA warns that more research needs to be done on the health risks of inhaling liquid nicotine.

> "The FDA has said that it plans to assert regulatory authority over > electronic cigarettes. And that could lead to them being regulated in the > same way as cigarettes as far as marketing is concerned," Felberbaum says.

This is odd. For one, we know the health risks of nicotine patches, and we know the health risks of the _alternative_ to e-cigarettes, which carries very large known risks. For that reason alone we should celebrate these little devices.

Further, what the hell is the FDA doing? I thought this would be for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF).

Edit, some dates:

Since 2009 the FDA has had the authority to explicitly regulate tobacco too, not just nicotine: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_tobacco_by_the_U....](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_tobacco_by_the_U.S._Food_and_Drug_Administration)

Since 1998 the FDA has been allowed to regulate cigarettes as nicotine delivery devices: [http://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/8846773/Szubin.ht...](http://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/8846773/Szubin.html?sequence=2)

<comment><USER30> Nicotine isn't an alcohol, tobacco, firearm, or explosive. It's a drug.

It's also fair to request additional research into an inhalant version of a drug. I wouldn't _want_ an FDA that immediately celebrates a product without properly researching it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> These electronic cigarettes are pretty cool, nicotine without all the other downsides. There's no point in banning _that_.

Could this be used for ganja too?

<comment><USER32> You can get vaporizers for pot. From uh, what I have heard... they are pretty good.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> I cannot believe how many people still buy cigarettes and smoke though. Stand and watch at your local drugstore how many people come in within 15 minutes to buy cigarettes.

If they are addicted then the industry failed at helping them quit and the government needs to force the industry to provide direct free assistance to quit. It's not a game where they should be able to keep making profit off known death.

<comment><USER34> Why is it the industry's responsibility to help them quit? Also, why is it the government's responsibility?

<comment><USER35> Because they are knowingly selling people an addictive and fatal product but have tried to hide this fact.

<comment><USER36> Have you ever met someone who didn't know cigarettes are addictive and dangerous?

They print it all right there on the box, and at the bottom of every advertisement (are there even still cigarette ads? I never see them around), and you can't complete school without being told over and over how dangerous they are. I think these days the cigarette companies don't even need to do anything. Cigs are there, if you want them they're easy to find, everyone knows what they do, some will still choose to smoke them.

<comment><USER37> Yes, my grandfather. Back then, the dangers of smoking were not well known by the public. In fact, the tobacco industry pushed bogus research to attempt to throw the conclusion that smoking causes cancer into doubt. Once it was apparent that smoking was harmful, my grandfather quit smoking cold turkey.

It was too late. He spent more than a decade coughing up his lungs only to finally succumb to cancer, weakened by the steroids keeping him alive to the point where he broke his back picking up a gallon of milk.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> Do they stink like regular cigarettes? The horrible stench of regular cigarettes is worse than any possible carcinogens to me, ugh!

<comment><USER39> Not by a long shot. I've been a smoker for more than half my life, and while I still am, since I've moved to another city that frowns upon smoking in your own apartment, I've become far more cognisant of the smell - not that I was completely ignorant to it.

Nicotine vaporizers have no scent that I've ever been aware of. I've had a couple myself, and they have found quite a bit of popularity in my neighborhood very recently. You can't even tell someone is smoking one unless you see them take a puff. As far as I've been able to tell, there is no scent.

<comment><USER8> > As far as I've been able to tell, there is no scent.

You said you still smoke. Smokers have a terrible sense of smell. You would have to ask a non-smoker if the e-cigs smell.

If you wonder: They do. Not anywhere near as bad as a real cigarette, but they do smell.

<comment><USER24> Of course they smell. Nearly everything has some smell, me and you included. It's just that you happen to dislike this particular smell. I know how it is - the smell of raw meat makes me puke almost instantly. But... It's my problem, you know? I'm not going around trying to ban making meals from raw meat (really, I can smell even if the kitchen is quite far away). Disliking e-cigs smell - which one? there's tons of them... - is your problem. I think mine is more serious - think of what I feel when I have to feed my dog! - and so I don't think your moaning about is needed or even worth listening.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> Wow, I miss smoking, maybe this is how to get that clear lucid feeling back but without the health risks. I know it would be regulated, the government needs to make its two cents too. Right?

<comment><USER41> That clear lucid feeling is your brain being relieved of its addiction withdrawal. Non-smokers never have that feeling because their brain has never been exposed to it. Read Allen Carr to help you never want a cigarette again.

I think long-term smokers have a permanently-affected brain, it will be interesting to see future studies.

<comment><USER42> I'm interested in how that compares to the effects of S(S|N|SN)RIs.

<comment><USER41> I have no experience with psychoactive drugs but I don't think it's anywhere as near as drastic. It's pretty easy to deal with psychologically as smoking is a lifestyle so quitting successfully mostly involves changing your lifestyle. Nicotine leaves your system completely fairly quickly with no side affects except for what I believe is a lingering sensitivity to the memory of it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> What I don't understand is how are they allowed to put ads on TV?

<comment><USER32> We allow alcohol advertisements on TV; why should we ban e-cigarette advertisements?

<comment><USER44> I have no idea how the alcohol industry gets away with it tbh...I guess they have some serious lobbying power, in fact I know a lot of the anti-drug campaigns are driven by the alcohol industry, one of their biggest threats is probably cannabis!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> I want to see the excuse for banning these from being used indoors. It'll probably be along the lines of "children will be influenced or something". Gotta love the nanny state - not!

<comment><USER46> More likely along the lines of other people not wanting to breathe your second-hand nicotine / whatever the hell else might be in this vapor, because the jury's still out on their safety.

<comment><USER21> Here's a study[1] that concludes there is "no significant risk".

[1]-[http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/08958378.2012.7...](http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/08958378.2012.724728)

<comment><USER9> That one was funded and conducted by the e-cigs industry, of course it is going to come to that conclusion.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: ShowList – Share Bands You've Seen Live, Discover New Bands - <AUTHOR> http://showlist.io <comment> slice-beans Looks cool. Very similar to a service I built a few years ago: [https://lanyard.fm](https://lanyard.fm) which has setlist integration and even generated Spotify playlists of the setlist using live versions of tracks at one point. If you'd like to chat about any of the problems we faced let me know.

The site was never monetized, it was a side project between me and a couple of other guys. We struggled with data until it eventually dried up completely last year. To remedy that I've been working on a live music version of musicbrainz.org in my spare time although progress is slow. If anyone is interested in getting involved in that hit me up

<comment><AUTHOR> Lanyard looks impressive. I hadn't heard of it until today, but I will take a look around. I'll drop you a message through the site, would be good to talk.

<comment> slice-beans Looking forward to it. I'm on twitter @slice_beans or you can find an email address on [https://slicebeans.com/contact](https://slicebeans.com/contact)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER2> Nice work. I've registered, though unfortunately I don't attend many concerts. Just a couple of suggestions:

\- Your dataset seems fairly good (it found a bunch of concerts of a band only known in my country), but inevitably it'll miss a bunch of amateur and/or obscure bands. I know this has the danger of muddying your data and ending up with fifty versions of AC/DC, but if I need to keep track of certain concerts off-site, it loses much of its appeal.

\- Please, please implement an export feature. Regardless of your intentions your site will eventually close, and it's not fair to your users if they lose all their data. A simple CSV with the band/venue/date would suffice.

Good luck!

<comment><USER3> Thanks for the suggestions, the export feature is something that wasn't on our roadmap, but is now.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Though this isn't a service I'd personally use, it seems useful.

One suggestion though, as hated as it might be, would be to make a mobile app. My experience with outings and shows is that you tend to forget stuff like this when you get home. You drop your bags on the floor and your body into bed.

Best of luck to you!

<comment><USER5> I'd also love another feature in a mobile app: set lists. I love to look back on the sets I've enjoyed, and a way to easily track those and associate them with my favorite concerts would be fantastic. By the time I'm home, I've forgotten most of the list.

<comment><USER6> Do you know about [http://www.setlist.fm](http://www.setlist.fm)?

<comment><USER7> Didn't know of this website. So damn useful!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> As others said, more explanation of the functionality on the home page would be nice, so you don't have to create an account to see what the site can do. In particular I'm wondering if you pulled in a catalog of past concerts the user can choose from, or if they have to enter in the date and location themselves.

Also, nitpicks:

\- The registration page has an "Already have an account? Login" link, but there's not a link to the registration page on the login page.

\- There's not a link back to home page from either of those pages either.

<comment><USER3> Sorry we're just finishing up the MVP and the polish isn't quite there yet, I've added the link you suggested and made the logo a link back to the homepage.

Temporary fixes until we can make something better for the long term.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Awesome, had been planning to make something like this myself to keep track of all the gigs I get to. Nice simple UI, does exactly what I want it to. Keep it up!

Edit: Ok, two minor annoyances. Firstly, if gig details aren't found or listed for an artist, I can't manually enter the date/venue myself. Secondly, I'd like to be able to click the heading on my gig list to sort it by date/artist. Also getting errors pretty much every time I add a new artist, presumably just from overload.

<comment><USER3> Thanks for giving the site a try.

As Jonny mentioned this is very much an MVP which we just finished yesterday. We do have plans to allow you manually add event details if we don't have them in the database.

Sorting of the show list is also something we have on the roadmap.

Sorry about the errors, yeah we're hitting the API limits pretty hard.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Great experience all up (besides a few understandable timeouts fetching Date/Venue data today). Good focus and execution, I hope you reach the success you're after!

Couple of personal thoughts:

\- When I've seen the same band a few times, it would be cool to choose cover photo (album art of their current album at the time? The song preview could also be their most popular song at the time?)

\- Most of my concerts are in my hometown, where most of my friends are from. I'd love to feature the venue name on my showlist (In Brisbane, Australia <3: The Tivoli, Riverstage, The Triffid :D hehe)

\- Integration with Songkick?

\- I like the manual sorting, my natural preference seems to be oldest to newest, but with repeated bands grouped. I wonder if this is possibly a pattern of others too, and because having an awesome showlist to share is close to your product's core/focus it could be worth designing for this?

Awesome work!

[https://showlist.io/@danfo](https://showlist.io/@danfo)

<comment><USER11> Another integration I'd like to see is with Facebook events. Really the only reason I have a Facebook account is to keep track of concerts I'm going to. All the info and tickets are in the same place and I can follow certain events / groups and get notifications when new concerts pop up. If the events I'm "going" to could automatically be added to my Showlist I'd be completely sold!

Also I've noticed that this is geared toward there being 1 artist/band at each show. This might be different for different genres, but here in NL the Drum & Bass scene has like 5-6 names playing at each event so it is a bit tedious to have to enter each one manually. Again I think Facebook event integration would be a great solution to this issue because the official events have all the information about the concert if you can manage to recognize the relevant information in each post.

I think Facebook probably has the most complete summary of events across all genres if you can find a way to parse out the non-concert related events. This is probably pretty hard to implement well, but might work out with a smart enough spider crawling Facebook.

[https://showlist.io/@JeeCeeBees](https://showlist.io/@JeeCeeBees) :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Facebook Events is a damn good idea. I am going to be looking into this and see if it is at all possible to do. Thanks for the feedback.

[https://showlist.io/@jonny](https://showlist.io/@jonny) ;-)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Made this "top 100" album chart generator last December and it took off on 4chan earlier this year:

[https://www.neverendingchartrendering.org/](https://www.neverendingchartrendering.org/)

<comment><USER2> That deserves its own Show HN post. I'd upvote it!

<comment><AUTHOR> I would too!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Good times remembering every concert I've attended (or trying)! Hope you'll get the UX smoother with time.

I wonder where the shows database come from?

Good luck!

<comment><AUTHOR> We will definitely improve the UX -- just went live yesterday, so bear with us.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Couple of points/ideas (some mentioned by others)

* Social auth * Export * Sorting shows by date, location, acts * "I was there" \- finding other users by what shows they were at (exact shows or nearby via geo or date, which are usually near each other) * Larger data mgt via something like handsontable

Nice idea - good job so far!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the points/ideas.

The 'I was there' idea is one that I really like. And yes, discoverability by what shows other users were at is a feature we are working towards.

Thanks again.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Neat. I currently use setlist.fm's "I was there" feature for this; an import feature could be cool.

<comment><AUTHOR> This is a great idea. We will get on this.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> I just registered as @darkvibration and put in all the concerts I have been to. Is this a purely personal journal kind of thing or have you been thinking of adding some social feature to it as well?

I would love to know your vision/plan with the site.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for registering and adding your list -- I'm kind of jealous that you've seen David Gilmour!

Since we just launched 24 hours ago, it is currently a personal journal that you can organize and share with friends on Facebook and Twitter.

The vision is social and discoverability. We will enable you to follow other users that like similar bands to you, and see everyone that has been to the same shows as you. This will help you discover new bands and find shows in your geo area.

<comment><USER7> I am a big fan of Floyd and his solo stuff. He is not very difficult to see these days, he has been touring non stop for an year now. Maybe you can still catch him.

I was wondering if the show discovery space is crowded because of Songkick (which I already use), Bandsintown etc. What is your thought on that? On the other hand, Songkick at least has little to no social aspect, which kinda sucks.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I really like this. My wife keeps a list of shows we've been to in a Google Sheet and I try to post a picture from each show on Facebook, so I think we would definitely use this. Right off the bat, I'd like to be able to add multiple shows for a single artist at the same time. I'd also like to add multiple artists for a single show. You might already have these things in your roadmap, but it's making data entry take longer than it should for me. I'll keep my eye on the site to see where it goes.

</comment><comment><USER17> I don't get why this isn't part of MusicBrainz bootlegs, or is this just a view on it?

[https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Specific_types_of_releases...](https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Specific_types_of_releases/Live_bootlegs)

<comment><USER18> Bootlegs are specifically "releases" that fans record, whereas this site is just for marking your attendance, not providing your recording of it. The more relevant MusicBrainz entity would be an Event: [https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Event](https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Event) – which even has a setlist attribute (a feature that was suggested elsewhere in this thread).

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Nice, good idea, this has potential.

Some feedback:

I like the logo.

Would get rid of the dull grey background, make it closer to white. And change the bands of the first screenshot to something a bit more accessible then the Dead Milkmen, so it doesn't look too niche for a broader audience. As that first screenshot is their first impression.

</comment><comment><USER20> Please show something useful: screenshots, a list of features, something. I have no idea what your web site does. The only actionable thing for me to do is register and give you my email address. Yeah right.

<comment><USER21> You can give critical feedback without being so dismissive. For example:

> Please show something useful; maybe screenshots or a list of features. Right > now I'm not sure what your web site does. The only actionable thing for me > to do is register and give you my email address, but I'm not likely to do > that without more information.

Do you see the difference in tone, empathy, and guidance here? If I were to show off my work to this community, I would hope for a little bit of that kind of consideration.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks, Josh. I appreciate you saying this.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Laravel, nice. :)

<comment><AUTHOR> We think so too. ;-)

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> I'm in Australia, does it include a local Aussie dataset or is it possible to add bands ourselves?

<comment><USER10> I'm in Australia too, seems to have an awesome dataset. Back to the first The Living End concert my brother took me to when I was in primary school.

A few obscure bands were missing (especially if they no longer exist: Rookie, Fatis Valour, Holland, ...), but I'm honestly not surprised. Not possible to add bands ourselves yet

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> Finally! I've waited for something like this forever! Thank you!

<comment><AUTHOR> Awesome, I hope you dig it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Nice. Just a heads-up, Bandsinstown[0] are probably not going to like your logo.

[0][http://news.bandsintown.com/home](http://news.bandsintown.com/home)

</comment><comment><USER26> Any option to delete your account?

</comment><comment><USER27> No facebook login, seriously?

Implementing it should take about 2h using modern libraries and frameworks.

<comment><AUTHOR> Seriously. Everything takes about 2h, so choices have to be made in order to launch. It's coming. ;-)</comment></comment>


Empire of Code – Space Strategy Game from CheckIO - <AUTHOR> http://www.checkio.org/blog/empire-code-space-strategy-game-checkio/

<comment><USER2> I know it doesn't matter but it strangely bothers me that the example code defines a function's keyword arguments as __kawargs.

<comment><USER3> That is the standard python convention.

[https://docs.python.org/2/faq/programming.html#how-can-i- pas...](https://docs.python.org/2/faq/programming.html#how-can-i-pass- optional-or-keyword-parameters-from-one-function-to-another)

<comment><USER4> That's not what they meant. They were referring to the typo: kawargs

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Since we're talking games and code: 'tptacek, I have a question for you, and you already know what it is :).

<comment><USER6> You will perish in flames!

<comment><USER7> By which he means "Development on Starfighter's first game continues apace. It's, like every development project ever, slower than we expected it to be, and has involved some going down dead alleys as we explore how to make fun core game systems. We've got some of the core systems built and are firming up the other ones, and starting to build levels on top of them. We optimistically think folks will have a lot of fun with this when it launches, which will be when it launches -- we don't want to jinx ourselves by committing to a ship date."

<comment><USER6> You will perish in flames!

<comment><USER5> Thank you both for detailed and comprehensive answers.

Next reminder due in one month, context allowing :).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I do not like these types of posts when I can't actually see, try the product and it is kind of annoying since I kind of got hooked but will have to drop my email to some company that hopefully won't sell it to some ad company :(

<comment><USER9> Hi! CheckiO community manager here.

We're about to begin sending invitations, just subscribe on empireofcode.com and you'll get your invitation really soon!

<comment><USER3> You responded to a complaint about the website providing insuffcient information about the game and simply asking for an email address... with no information about the game and a request for an email address.

I hope the game itself is more logical than this.

<comment><USER9> Have you tried scrolling landing page? There's more info on the bottom of the page :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I love CheckIO and can't wait to play with this!

I'm an elementary school teacher, and this past semester I taught programming to 4th and 5th graders. We progressed through Code.org to independent Scratch projects to writing Python. Taking that last step from graphics to text/Scratch to Python was a hard one for the kids. I'd been thinking about using something like CodeCombat with them next year, but I'm excited to see if Empire of Code could be a viable option!

<comment><USER11> What are your thoughts on scheme vs. python for teaching programming grades 4-8? UC Berkeley switched from SICP to (SICP - Scheme + Python) and I love both scheme and python but haven't the foggiest idea which is _actually_ better for the student. I grew up on Simply Scheme (by Brian Harvey and Matt Wright) and SICP. In the mid 90s, python wasn't available as an option for me. After using HyperTalk '92-'95, learning Scheme was enlightening, and it was my language of choice '96-'04\. Then I found python in '04, which addressed the "thicket of incompatible implementations" problems Scheme had and provided more powerful data structures (list and dict) out of the box. Python code is easier on the eyes as well; the human eye is not designed to quickly differentiate six ")" in a row from five ")" in a row.

The added syntactic readability of python comes at the cost of increased complexity of the parser, complicating the design of the meta-circular interpreter (SICP ch. 4).

The added power of the built-in data structures (list and dict) comes at the cost of increased complexity of the implementation of the built-in library, complicating the design of the explicit control evaluator (SICP ch. 5).

What are your thoughts? Is there any hope of adapting the ideas of SICP for 4th-8th graders?

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> The original Empire - [http://www.classicempire.com](http://www.classicempire.com)

I had often thought of making the computer strategy pluggable, so that players could build their own bots and have them compete. It would be fun, and an enormous time waster :-)

<comment><USER13> I grew up playing this as a kid, and I still have a copy installed. It is a simple, unassuming game, with the curious property of erasing large blocks of time from memory

<comment><USER12> I also keep thinking I should port it to javascript, so it can be run in a browser. Just think on those interminable waits at the airport you could be playing Empire!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I hope it's not programming puzzles tacked on to a strategy game. I much prefer the programming part to be an integral portion of the gameplay.

</comment><comment><USER15> Looks awesome! I would love to start playing the beta =)

</comment><comment><USER16> Wow, that had to be fastest and least I had to question whether I wanted to know more. Yes...Yes I do.

</comment><comment> drew-y Am I the only one getting an empty black screen on the signup page?

<comment><USER17> No, I'm getting it too.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> When is that going to come?

<comment><USER19> July 16</comment></comment>


Is working on Outsystems platform good for developer's career? - <AUTHOR> I accepted a job offer where their project requires using Outsystems platform, and will be starting soon. At the same time I received another offer working as ReactJS developer, which is my top choice. I am in dilemma now, I am afraid working as Outsystems is going to bring down my career. What should I do? Need experienced ones to give me advise. <comment><USER2> Working with Outsystems you will discover the enterprise world, discover RAD tooling for doing Web applications (low code framework) and get a skillset that is usually in demand by big corps, similar to SAP, because one only gets into OutSystems working in such kind of environments.

[https://www.featuredcustomers.com/vendor/outsystems](https://www.featuredcustomers.com/vendor/outsystems)

It is not something to learn during long nights and weekends, rather with conferences, projects and certifications.

OutSystems is in business since 2003.

ReactJS, well everyone is doing it, it is a cool kids Facebook framework, and open source.

It boils down to which kind of work environments you want to be on.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you for your input. Very helpful indeed.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> You'll find that knowing different systems helps your career. Every new bootcamp grad knows React. You can learn React on your own, and know React + Outsystems, making you more unique.

It is counter-intuitive, but knowing non-trendy platforms makes you more valuable. When projects come up needing to integrate with the newer platforms, or if they drop Outsystems to move to node/React, you would be one of the few people who know both sides.

I've spent most of my career on platform transition projects, migrating Lotus Notes to .NET and SharePoint, and building web front-ends over them to replace their old UIs. Now, I am modernizing older .NET MVC and jQuery apps to React running in cloud environments. The tech list I work with would make most people run away screaming, yet I'm extremely valuable to my team because I know every piece of tech on both the old and the new platforms.

<comment><USER4> > It is counter-intuitive, but knowing non-trendy platforms makes you more > valuable

Yes, but knowing only non-trendy platforms (especially if they're not really in demand and have a large diaspora such as PHP) is a good way to struggle to find work - except in the later phases of your career as you can leverage your experience in consulting, if you have managed to make the right connections.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you taurath :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I have worked for a RAD platform similar to Outsystems. As I was building the platform I had the best of both worlds:

1) engineering with general purpose frameworks and programming languages on the platform and

2) the RAD toolset itself as we were eating our own dog food.

Today I'm not doing anything with RAD. But the experience is invaluable and I know what enterprise is like.

Bottom line is, I don't think this harms your career. It's all a learning experience and worse case you find a new challenge if you really don't like it.

I think it's worse to stay comfortable over exploring what else is in the world.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for your opinion. Much appreciated :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Knowing a little bit is good, building your entire career around it is bad except you work for it as a consultant.

</comment><comment><USER7> Once i too got opportunity to work on Outsystems but i refused to do because you won't gent in-depth knowledge in language instead you just learn their product. Better to go for ReactJS.

</comment><comment><USER8> > working as ReactJS developer, which is my top choice

Why didn't you go for it?

<comment><AUTHOR> I have accepted the offer and starting soon. I dont want to back out because it will ruin my reputation.

<comment><USER9> I think you have taken the better job opportunity. You'll be more valuable with that sort of tech than the usual stacks, although there may be fewer of those jobs.

<comment><AUTHOR> Are you saying this because lesser people know Outsystems than the usual tech stack like react, and it makes them look vaulable?

<comment><USER9> Yes and enterprises have more money to spend on their staff. In general. SF tech bubble excepted!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks a lot quickthrower for your comments. Much appreciated.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: AI grammar checker - <AUTHOR> https://www.agrammar.com/ <comment><AUTHOR> Hey there, I wrote a simple AI grammar checker. Research on AI applications in the field of Natural Language Processing (NLP), including grammar errors correction, is growing quickly. However, despite this progress, easily accessible tools are still missing on the web. With this project, I'm trying exactly to cover this gap, a web app with an easy-to-use interface, powered with an artificially intelligent algorithm and trained on common errors made by not native English speakers. Would be nice to get some feedback from you! Thanks,

<comment><USER2> I find the suggested texts in the dropdown hard to read with the strikeouts.

What type of model is behind this?

<comment><AUTHOR> if you stay with your mouse over one of the suggested texts, a tooltip box will show you the proposed text without the edits

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> This is really well done. I'd love to know how you built it and what data it is trained on. The suggestions are totally on point. It even adds extra words sometimes, which are uncannily well fitted to the context.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hi, thank you for your feedback. You can find all the details about data and tools used on the about page: [https://www.agrammar.com/about](https://www.agrammar.com/about)</comment></comment>


Ask HN: What has the highest cost per megabyte? - <AUTHOR> I was just thinking, the product that my company makes costs roughly $8/Megabtye (shipped binary), what has the highest cost per MB that you can think of? <comment><USER2> "304a554a310c7e546dfe434669c62820b7d83490" (160 bits) was reportedly worth millions of dollars [https://blog.ethereum.org/2016/06/17/critical-update-re- dao-...](https://blog.ethereum.org/2016/06/17/critical-update-re-dao- vulnerability/)

</comment><comment><USER3> Intel 3101s (64 bits of storage) were $99.50 (in 1970 $).</comment>


Lightning and MicroUSB Startup Offers A New Perk - <AUTHOR> http://www.techiediy.com/lightning-and-microusb-connector-startup-offers-a-new-perk# <comment><USER2> Thank you for the support! I wish I could realize it and share the honor with you soon!</comment>


Introducing Realm Xamarin: A Reactive Database for .NET - <AUTHOR> https://realm.io/news/introducing-realm-xamarin/ <comment><USER2> Couchbase Mobile is also available for .Net here: [http://developer.couchbase.com/documentation/mobile/1.1.0/ge...](http://developer.couchbase.com/documentation/mobile/1.1.0/get- started/get-started-mobile/net-mobile/index.html)

In addition to the reactive features that Realm offers, it also supports offline synchronization and works with a server component that offers fine grained acces control.

</comment><comment><USER3> I played a bit, but there are 2 things that annoys me: the footprint is really huge, for iOS, Realm.dll has 103 MB, so it means my app will instantly have 100MB more!!!. The second thing(even more important for me) is about the fact that all my storable objects have to be derived from RealmObject, so no POCO support. This is pretty important because I will need to carry Realm dependency everywhere I pass my objects.

<comment><USER4> Realm itself only adds less than 1 MB extra in your final app :-)

On Xamarin.iOS the Realm static libraries for all the iOS platforms and architectures we support are embedded inside the Realm.dll assembly. During build, Xamarin extracts the static libraries and links the app against them.

We should be more explicit about the size implications to avoid that chocking misunderstanding! We will update our FAQ.

Re. POCO support: We expect to support that going forward - you can follow the issue here: [https://github.com/realm/realm- dotnet/issues/529](https://github.com/realm/realm-dotnet/issues/529).

Let us know if you have other questions or concerns! Github issues is a good place to suggest features or ask questions.

Thanks!

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> What's meant by a reactive database vs a non-reactive one?

<comment><USER6> Hey, Yavor on the Realm team here. A reactive database allows you to structure your code so that you "react" to changes in your data layer - you don't have to re-run queries to get updates, because Realm updates all your data objects to point to the newest version of your data. Check out the sample code in your blog post: [https://realm.io/news/introducing-realm- xamarin](https://realm.io/news/introducing-realm-xamarin)

<comment><USER7> I don't get it. The sample is re-running the Count() call. A reactive design would post an event.

<comment><USER6> The core of Realm tracks writes across different threads and processes and that's how we know to update the result objects without rebuilding the query or rebinding the model objects. There is a PR to actually expose this as a high-level notifications API and we'll roll it out in our next Realm Xamarin release: [https://github.com/realm/realm- dotnet/pull/502/commits/f4169...](https://github.com/realm/realm- dotnet/pull/502/commits/f4169276e3c197a875f2aca259c24e80700344ab). Using that it will be possible to implement INotifyCollectionChanged and IObservable directly on top of Realm.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> When will UWP be supported? Kind of important for me.

<comment><USER9> Kristian from Realm here. We don't have a specific timeline for it, but it's being planned. See [https://github.com/realm/realm- dotnet/issues/509](https://github.com/realm/realm-dotnet/issues/509)

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> in case anyone else didn't notice this at the top of the page "Realm is a mobile database: a replacement for SQLite & Core Data"

</comment><comment><USER11> Hadn't seen Realm before, looks pretty sweet. Do you know of anybody using it with Appcelerator Titanium?

<comment><USER12> I have added an issue to request this support. Please comment and vote there [https://github.com/realm/realm-js/issues/429](https://github.com/realm/realm- js/issues/429)

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I wish they would focus more on getting Realm to version 1.0.

<comment><USER12> None of the effort in adding C# and Xamarin support distracted anyone from getting the core product to 1.0. We are an entirely separate team hired specifically for this project. If you follow the Java, Swift or Objective-C products you will have seen a steady set of releases in the last year. I can't comment on our closeness to 1.0 shipping.

I'd like to think that the C# team has also contributed by setting a high standard for API usability and ease of use but we're standing on the shoulders of the giants who wrote LINQ and Fody (thanks Simon Cropp).

Realm also keeps growing all its other teams and people are welcome to apply [https://jobs.lever.co/realm](https://jobs.lever.co/realm)

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> This is super cool.</comment>


Three Years on Rikers Without Trial - <AUTHOR> http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/06/before-the-law

<comment><USER2> I've lost track of the number of examples showing how fundamentally broken the US justice system is. Corruption, abuse, and just plain bureaucratic incompetence abound, and at any time any one of us could get swept up in it with little to no recourse.

And the worst of it is that there's no sign of it stopping. No efforts to fix the system, only the occasional story of one or two particular cases getting the chance they should have got years ago, and only because of a massive publicity campaign.

It's little wonder Aaron Swartz took his life. Staring down the massive barrel of the United States judicial system, which makes up rules it never holds itself to. It is a system designed to instill hopelessness and despair upon anyone it turns its gaze to.

</comment><comment><USER3> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8403451](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8403451)

</comment><comment><USER4> Follow up article: [http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/kalief-browder- and-a...](http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/kalief-browder-and-a-change- at-rikers)

Efforts are being made to quicken this, but little can be done to reverse the damage done to this young.</comment>


How to put your logo in a QR code - <AUTHOR> http://hackaday.com/2011/08/11/how-to-put-your-logo-in-a-qr-code/

<comment><USER4> Shameless plug, but I coded up <http://www.crimesagainstcode.com> a little while back as a learning exercise that lets you manipulate QR code pixels like this. No logo image injection but you can "draw" whatever you want As long as you keep it within the error correction you can do whatever you want.

(it's admittedly not very robust, I have a lot more ideas for it, but my time is scarce and my site metrics haven't really shown there's enough interest to put a bunch of time into it -- feedback is welcome though).

<comment><USER5> Do you have Github for this project? I'm interested in building my own QrCode encoder in JavaScript, what resources do you recommend to get me started?

<comment><USER4> The entire site is up at <https://github.com/mattsgarrison/CrimesAgainstCode>

The RQRCode gem does all of the QR Code generation magic. I manipulate all the code with some CoffeeScript and jQuery. RQRCode itself is a port of a JavaScript library: <http://www.d-project.com/qrcode/>

I've written some stuff locally that'll render the QR Code into canvas and provide a download link using a dataURI but it's fundamentally different than the table/css manipulations I'm doing right now...and well, I have an infant at home, so the site's being neglected ;) PM me on github if you want that chunk.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> An interesting counter-point here:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2800022>

This was my reasoning _not_ to do this when I put a QR code on my business card - too much risk of it becoming unreadable as the card got damaged/degraded over time.

<comment><USER7> That comment is a bit harsh. You don't have to use the same QR image everywhere and can choose where it makes sense to have one with logo and where it does not.

<comment><USER6> Agreed, but recognizing that the context matters is important. The comment (which wasn't mine - btw) was a bit harsh, but it did put clearly into words one half of what I was thinking at the time.

As is so often the case, cool is not _always_ the best option, and context matters more than we'd like, and more than some people realize.

<comment><USER8> Agreed. We've been doing this with our MogoTix QR codes for some time. It's a branding opportunity, as well as a small indicator that someone's ticket is genuine.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I created an Android app that let's you create customized QR codes like this on your phone. Check out [https://market.android.com/details?id=com.rabidgremlin.andro...](https://market.android.com/details?id=com.rabidgremlin.android.mecodelite)

<comment><USER10> Awesome app. Can I get in contact with you - i'd really like to talk about what you are doing with QR codes in more detail. If you get a moment - <USER2> drop me an email: firstname.lastname@example.com

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I wonder how feasible would be to compute/brute-force QR code that actually has the data looking like a picture, not merely picture overlaid on the code.

<comment><USER12> I Imagine it could be done if you don't mind having a URL that looks like <http://example.com/?x=ug893hig8*g>

<comment><USER13> Your example URL looks like a typical short URL. Sounds like an opportunity for a service that provides custom QR codes with a short URL redirect to your real URL.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> QR codes is another one of those developer/designer driven fads (IMHO). I'm not aware of any stock camera application that does QR detection. This combined with the time it takes to open the application and scan it, seems more convenient to place a well thought out url instead. That's not to say it can't be the future. But having bad QR experiences now is not going to help QR codes grow.

<comment><USER15> QR codes are EVERYWHERE in Korea. It's on just about every outdoor ad, in the subways, on buses, fliers, newspaper/magazine ads, often with colorful designs integrated into it. I went to a photography exhibit this week, and even the artist tag next to every photo had a QR code on it. Compared with launching your browser and typing in the URL, launching the QR scanner and snapping a picture is much easier.

<comment><USER16> > QR codes are EVERYWHERE in Korea.

And Japan. You can't see an ad or a flier without a QRCode in it.

<comment><USER17> I must admit, I think they're pretty popular in the UK now as well. Every time I go through the underground or flick through a newspaper/magazine I see them.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> We did small 2x2 flyers to promote our Android music player at GoogleIO and SF MusicHackDay.

On the back we had a QR code with our URL on each side and our logo in the middle:

<http://cloudtv.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/promoflyers.png>

</comment><comment><USER19> What's with the QR obsession? A new post about QR codes on HN every few days.

<comment><USER20> [http://blog.queaar.com/post/8811809234/infographics-the- rise...](http://blog.queaar.com/post/8811809234/infographics-the-rise-of-qr- codes)

<comment><USER21> It's worth noting that besides "11 out of 50 Fortune 50 companies" there are no raw numbers here, just percentages. "Increased 4549%" Increased from what? To what? This doesn't demonstrate that QR codes are popular, just that they're more popular than they used to be.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Is there any iPhone code scanner that shows the result in an overlay on the camera feed, instead of screen jumping the second it detects something? The latter behavior is obnoxious when playing with QR codes.

</comment><comment><USER23> I just tried to read those QR codes off my screen and my phone refused to recognize the IBM and Firefox ones. The hackaday ones however where no problem

</comment><comment><USER21> Can someone explain the error correction a bit more? How exactly is it that you're blanking out 1/3 of the code and it still works? Does it matter which bits you disrupt? Couldn't your design, if comprised black and white squares, inadvertently BE readable QR data that screws up your message?

<comment><USER24> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_Solomon>

<comment><USER25> Somewhat off-topic, but this reminds me of those 'why math is gibberish to laymen' posts a couple of weeks ago.

I know my math background sucks _and_ I'm stuck with the German version (i.e. the field suffers much more from being localized than CS. There are lunatics that try to create German words for everything from motherboard to stack - <USER3> I think we locked all of them up by now).

This article is unreadable without clicking on every other link in there and starting from scratch for me. Embarrassing.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I tried doing a similar thing for a fairly short URL. I had to add some padding on the end ("?SourceID=QR") in order to make the QR big enough to fit my changes in.

Does the QR standard allow for arbitarily high levels of error correction? (More than the "H" level.)

<comment><USER4> No, see here: <http://www.denso-wave.com/qrcode/qrstandard-e.html> (Denso-Wave created the QR code)

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> Since it's relying on the error correction to interpret those bits as smudged / etc. - couldn't you just slap your hi res 4 color logo down on top of the center of the code and get the same effect except without the pixelation?

<comment><USER15> Yes. I think the pixelation was his attempt to make the logo blend into the QR code as one design. There are lots of QR codes out there which has no

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> Very cool. Had definitely been wondering about how possible this was or wasn't, but too lazy/busy to read up on the standard and give it a go. My hat is off to everyone involved in these bits 'o trickery!

</comment><comment><USER28> I received an image from a co-worker recently which demonstrated the redundancy powers of QR codes: <http://i.min.us/ij9Yjs.png>

(Try scanning it)

</comment><comment><USER29> By abusing the error-correcting encoding, you are now relying on your QR code being perfectly rendered and scanned in order to work. You've removed most or all of the error-correcting safety margins.

</comment><comment><USER30> You can do this with datamatrix codes as well. Semacode has been doing this for years: <http://semacode.com/>

</comment><comment><USER31> The QR Codes have built in levels of error correction, anywhere from 10% to 30%.

<comment><USER16> Which is exactly the feature he's abusing here: he's introducing error in the form of non-QRCode data in the middle of his QRCode, which eats away (significantly) at the error correction in order to look pretty.

<comment><USER8> "Abuse" is a relative term. Denso may not have introduced error correction for the use case of inserting aesthetic elements into the barcode, but hey, it works.

MogoTix inserts its logo into QR codes as a form of branding and identification, and we have not encountered any error correction issues whatsoever.

<comment><USER16> > "Abuse" is a relative term.

No, it's not.

> Denso may not have introduced error correction for the use case of inserting > aesthetic elements into the barcode, but hey, it works.

Error correction was introduced because the physical media degrades and even in the best case capture is not ideal. Therefore error correction is a requirement to correctly round-trip digital information printed on an analog media. By abusing error correction mechanisms for cutesy purposes you increase the chances of complete digitalization failure significantly, sometimes (if you use all available error correction) to the point where the tag can only be scanned under absolutely perfect conditions.

<comment><USER8> You seem to be making the argument that because full use of error correction can sometimes make a QR code unreadable, no non-QR code data should ever be inserted into a QR code.

Seems like a sweeping generalization, that's all.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> The BBC did that YEARS ago.

<comment><USER33> Indeed: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2798973>

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> 1/ Stop trying to make QR codes look pretty

[http://blog.collins.net.pr/2011/04/stop-trying-to-make-qr- co...](http://blog.collins.net.pr/2011/04/stop-trying-to-make-qr-codes- look.html)

2/ If you must do QR code "enhancement" please use Overlay and not embedding. Overlay positions the QR code "within" a logo and builds a surrounding design.

Want to see some examples of what that means - check out www.Cognation.net/QR particularly the IronMan2 example from Warbasse design.</comment>


[Wikileaks] US Military Custody Procedures and Policies for Detainees - <AUTHOR> http://wikileaks.org/detaineepolicies/

<comment><USER2> Are wikileaks alive again?</comment>


Ask HN: Websites similar to HN but regarding EE - <AUTHOR>

Hi,
I'm an EE student and although I love reading HN I would like to know if anyone knows any websites similar to HN but focussed on EE. I only know about hackaday(focus hobbyist's) and I receive the IEEE magazine, but have failed to find others like HN.
Thanks in advance. <comment><USER2> Check out element14.com

<comment><AUTHOR> thanks so much</comment></comment>


What's the most frustrating problem in IT? It's us - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20130924-the-biggest-problem-in-it-us

<comment><USER2>
        BBC Future (international version)

        We're sorry but this site is not accessible from the UK ...

Anyone care to provide a summary?</comment>


Castor: Get tech giants data discovery tools in a click - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/castor-app/castor-get-tech-giants-data-discovery-tools-in-a-click-c0ca7e1f5a61 <comment><AUTHOR> Have you ever dreamed of a Google search engine for your enterprise data?

As data scientists and software engineers, Tristan Mayer, Daniel Velasquez, and I have spent hours trying to find the most relevant datasets to do our analysis. Once we found the right one, we couldn't understand how to use it, or if we could trust it. This is painful but unfortunately too common.

We interviewed 150 companies at the end of our studies to search for solutions. Every one of them faced the problem. We worked hard for 6 months to build a solution and released the first version of our product.

Go check it out www.castordoc.com and give us feedback!</comment>


Sweden asks to meet Julian Assange inside Ecuador embassy - <AUTHOR> http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jun/20/sweden-meet-julian-assange-inside-ecuador-embassy-wikileaks <comment><USER2> Sweden's long-standing refusal to interview Assange in Ecuador's embassy was most probably due to pressure from the US. I wonder what element could have changed that.

Edit: Or nothing at all has changed and the aim of the visit is purely "discovery".

<comment><USER3> Nonsense. If you are wanted for a crime there is no country on Earth that lets you dictate to the police when and where they can have a word with you.

<comment><USER4> That's not what happened though. He dictated where the police were _capable_ of having a word with him, and they chose not to do so there.

It's totally possible that there are legitimate reasons for that (if you already have enough evidence to convict, there would be no reason to 'interview' someone except in an arrest-friendly setting), but it's still a worthwhile distinction. This isn't someone calling up the police and going "I'll talk to you, but only if you agree to meet me at Starbucks." It's someone leveraging international law to leave the police with only one option.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> For the longest time I had my philosophical issues with WikiLeaks so stayed away. Sure, I'd read stories via mainstream reporting, but getting into the actual 'effort' or 'movement' wasn't (and still isn't) my cup of tea. From a distance, things seemed rather dramatic as well.

I'm rather certain the article "Ghosting" by Andrew O'Hagan is something I found through HN, and it was an eye opening long read: [http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n05/andrew- ohagan/ghosting](http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n05/andrew-ohagan/ghosting)

It certainly influenced my perspective of Assange's decisions, or choices, regarding himself (past, present, future). The story continues, as this article shows.

</comment><comment><USER6> I wouldn't be surprised if Assange is found not guilty by the Swedish authorities and then Assange thinks he is free and leaves the embassy (which he plans to do). (I think the US could get Sweden to do that on the promise they have a worse sentence for him.) Meanwhile, the UK suddenly finds the UN's ruling as fair and extradite him to the US. If we're honest, the only reason the UK hasn't so far is because they are worried about the circumstances of doing so. If not for that, they really couldn't care and would probably use the favour with the US at another time.

What's really horrible here is that the UN seems to exist to serve the US agenda. I wonder whether if push come to shove, if other Countries in the UN would get help at all? After all, they turned a blind eye to Ukraine because they didn't want to deal with Russia.

Whilst there are still so many games at play, I think Assange is much better off where he is. I think Assange needs to find some funding from somewhere (shouldn't be too difficult) and upgrade that internet connection. Until all the cards are revealed he's probably going to be there a while.

<comment><USER7> What is never clear in these convoluted conspiracies is why the United "yes we'll go to war with Irak with you US" Kingdom would not extradite Assange so that it would be necessary to ask Sweden to do it.

<comment><USER8> I heard it was because he was a (high-profile) British citizen.

<comment><USER9> He's Australian.

<comment><USER8> I though Australians were British. Seems I am wrong though. Anyone care to enlighten me?

<comment><USER10> Simple: Australians are not citizens of the United Kingdom. Neither are Canadians, French or Germans. What additional enlightenment is necessary?

<comment><USER8> That was enough : )

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> Pirate-of-SV I tried to find some more information about this. Seems like the article is referring to a request that was made in March 2016 [1] by the Swedish Prosecution Authority.

Their timeline of "The Assange Matter" in Swedish is a bit more detailed [2]

[1] (English) [https://www.aklagare.se/nyheter-press/for-media/the- assange-...](https://www.aklagare.se/nyheter-press/for-media/the-assange- matter/)

[2] (Swedish) [https://www.aklagare.se/nyheter-press/for- media/assangearend...](https://www.aklagare.se/nyheter-press/for- media/assangearendet/kronologi/)

</comment><comment><USER11> Finally! Hope this finally moves ahead. The guys has been stuck there in 'house arrest' for years.

</comment><comment><USER12> "the internet collapses the whole time" ? I really wonder what's going on from a layer 1/2 perspective their with last mile connection and ISPs. I'm assuming the british authorities haven't tried to stop the Ecuadorians from ordering ordinary internet service, though of course anything going into/out of there is subject to a great deal of scrutiny and signals intelligence attention.

In that part of London they _should_ be able to obtain a fairly ordinary VDSL2 17a profile last mile connection which will be anywhere from 55 to 85 Mbps symmetric depending on how shitty the POTS phone wiring is, and how close the DSLAM is to the premises.

</comment><comment><USER13> Could the timing of this somehow be Brexit related?

<comment><USER14> Probably not. The ECHR is formally part of the UK's law; simply exiting the EU won't revoke it. Brexit would mean that no part of Assange's case would be appealable to the European Court of Justice while Assange was in the UK, but that seems like less a big deal.

This probably has more to do with the UN working group findings from earlier this year, and with the fact that Assange has imposed on himself a longer period of house arrest than he probably would have faced even if he'd been found guilty in Sweden.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> He'd still be in breach of his original bail conditions if Sweden dropped the charges and risks being arrested for breach of bail conditions if he were to leave the embassy.

</comment><comment><USER16> How likely is this to be some kind of bait'n'switch? Scenario: Swedish diplomats enter negotiations – raising delusive hope in Assange and everyone in the Embassy – with the intention to never follow with any feasible agreement in order to make Assange give up so he can deal with his health issues.

<comment><USER17> It seems to me that it's the Swedish police that agreed to talk to Assange in the embassy. Not Swedish diplomats.

<comment><USER18> And to expound on that, the foreign minister is not allowed to influence the police in Sweden ( [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministerstyre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministerstyre) ). Although there have been cases where this has happened (IIRC the US cable leaks revealed there was ministerial interference in the Pirate Bay case)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> For how long has he been in that embassy? Versus how much sentence would he get from a possible conviction?

</comment><comment><USER20> So well timed after the 5th(?) anniversary of Assange moving in to the embassy it sounds like this was the plan for a while: "if we can't make him leave in 5 years, we might as well interview him there before any case becomes invalid."

<comment><USER21> Does Sweden have a statue of limitations on rape?

<comment><USER22> "Some in the Foreign Office fear a permanent impasse between the UK and Ecuador, and that Assange will stay in the embassy until 2020, by which time a statute of limitations applies under Swedish law on the rape case."

Its implied 10(?) years in the article

<comment><USER21> In that case, he's more than half-way there. That doesn't have anything to do with his ailing health, but it's interesting to note.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> It surprises me that HN is so full of conspiracy theorists. Assange is stuck in the embassy of a less than ideal country regarding freedom of press etc because of his own actions, and he's free to leave at any time. When he does, he will get arrested by English police, extradited to Sweden, and questioned regarding alleged rape. If the prosecutor thinks he's guilty he will get arrested, and he will stand trial in Sweden.

Nothing in this case supports any of the scare tactics he himself and parts of the Internet is using. Sweden isn't a better country to extradite him to the US from than the UK. Sweden isn't legally allowed to extradite him after he's been extradited from the UK. He was in the UK for months before he started hiding in the embassy. He is not in house arrest, he's fleeing the justice system of two well developed western countries. Sweden's government can't give any guarantees that he's been asking for, because it's against Swedish law for the government to interfere in legal matters. It's all a bunch of FUD, and people seem to eat it up because it fits their narrative.

<comment><USER24> Possibly. However, if it was your life on the line, wouldn't you want assurances? I know I would. Especially if you look at what happened to others.

You state that Sweden can't extradite him to the US. Given the fact that most of the laws created in most western countries (ranging from tax law to civil law) are often not extremely well defined (or frankly not even well thought out / put together), and can often easily be interpreted in very different ways by different judges, I can totally understand his point of view.

At the end of the day, as long as Ecuador doesn't kick him out, all he has to do is wait for the statute of limitations to expire. He's got leverage. If Sweden really wanted a solution to this, they would've done this years ago.

<comment><USER25> "You state that Sweden can't extradite him to the US. Given the fact that most of the laws created in most Western countries (ranging from tax law to civil law) are often not extremely well defined, and can be interpreted in different ways by different judges, I can totally understand his point of view." => It is not a matter of justice system (common law vs civil law) or law definition, but a matter of independence. And when it comes to independence, Europe has shown a strong will not to extradite people to the US. Add the media pressure around Assange's case and you get a good assurance that he won't be extradited to the US

<comment><USER26> Then again this actually happened:

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition#Swed...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition#Sweden)

<comment><USER25> It happened for alleged terrorists no one knew about - apart from people working in security/intelligence/military services - and Sweden felt extremely shameful. Not sure they want to do that again with somebody almost every has heard of and who hasn't been a threat to Sweden

<comment><USER26> To paraphrase grandparent, if it were you, would you be willing to risk it? It won't be much consolation to you if it happens and somebody in Sweden might feel ashamed about it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> It appears US and allied governments have achieved much of what they wanted to anyway by immobilising Assagne in a small building with limited connectivity. This is possibly more valuable than highly publicised trial etc if he were in fact actually extradited.

</comment><comment><USER28> "Assange is suffering deteriorating health, he has a small space and little light. It is an embassy under siege. It is very difficult to make a phone call, the internet collapses the whole time, pictures are taken as people enter and leave the building"

Unusual that an embassy would have internet problems. Sounds like GCHQ have a van in the street...

<comment><USER29> Maybe they route all traffic through a VPN to Ecuador or something like that?

I doubt that GCHQ would be the reason for internet problems; even if they have "a van in the street", they'd have no incentive to impact the quality of the connection that they monitor.

<comment><USER30> Unless incompetence. Or malice.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> It's terrifying that Assange's self-preservation might put Trump in the Whitehouse.

<comment><USER32> It's terrifying that Clinton might get into the Whitehouse. I mean... are there really THAT many stupid voters?

Trump... faaaaaar from perfect. But the reason he's made it as far as he has? Because people are sick of career politicians (Jeb, Marco, Cruz, etc) who make promises then proceed to fuck the voters.

Hillary is the worst of the worst examples of Corrupt Rich White Bought-And- Paid-For Politicians.

<comment> vertex-four Trump is, as far as I'm aware, just as bought and paid for. He's just also not a career politician, but that doesn't mean he's not figured out how things get done at that level. Although best case scenario, all the career politicians decide they don't like an outsider and prevent him from doing anything he wants.

<comment><USER33> Hillary donations from corporations dwarf that of Trump. Trump does also not have JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, etc as donors. [1] [https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cid=N000...](https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cid=N00000019&cycle=Career)

<comment><USER34> Trump funds himself, so that comparison is disengenuous

<comment><USER33> My comment was primarily in response to: _Trump is, as far as I 'm aware, just as bought and paid for._

<comment><USER34> Fair. But being one of those we fear are doing the buying and selling, I'm not so sure its any consolation.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> Pardon Chelsea Manning !

</comment><comment><USER36> I would put money on Assange putting some sort of road-block in the way to prevent this from happening.

He has done it before.

He wants to present himself as being a co-operative victim whilst simultaneously being as un co-operative as possible!</comment>


The Case for Making Stuff - <AUTHOR> http://www.fastcompany.com/3039499/most-creative-people/the-case-for-making-stuff-what-happened-when-two-engineers-stepped-away

<comment><AUTHOR> Every desk in our SF office was handmade by Roland (Cofounder) at Olark. Kind of crazy, but kind of awesome, by the end we had a pretty efficient system. Of course our patio became completely coated in saw dust.</comment>


Kaggle Datasets – Discover and analyze open data - <AUTHOR> https://www.kaggle.com/datasets <comment><AUTHOR> Our goal with Kaggle Datasets is to provide the best place to publish, collaborate on, and consume public data.

As a data publisher, you have an easy way to publish data online, see how it's used, and interact with the users of the data. You can create the dataset via a simple web interface, and update it through the interface or an API. We automatically version these updates under the hood.

As a data consumer, you can browse the data online and download it (through the web or an API). You can see the code and insights others have generated on the data through Kaggle Kernels (hosted, versioned IPython notebooks that run in Docker containers). You can fork their code to get started on the data, or start coding from scratch on your own analysis. If you find improvements that could be made to the metadata (dataset/file/column-level descriptions), you can make those directly.

We're rapidly iterating on this product and expanding it's functionality, and would love any feedback and suggestions.

<comment><USER2> First of all, this looks like a great tool for datasets, thank you.

Do you have plans for adding file hashes to the datasets, e.g. sha256? This would make it a lot easier to integrate with other systems.

<comment><USER3> Sorry for a noob, could you please explain how adding hashes would help in better integration?

<comment><USER2> They mainly help in four ways:

\- avoid data corruption when downloading/transferring/copying datasets

\- notice changes/updates in the original dataset

\- dataset versioning (think how e.g. git turns directories and files into hash trees -- also called content-addressing)

\- most importantly: stable names without a naming authority

<comment><USER4> How does this apply when you can filter / conditional exports? Is the idea that the csv has a fixed hash and if you trust that, you can trust anything else?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> How about you let me download them without creating an account before calling them "public"?

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the feedback. This is likely a "not quite yet" vs. "never".

Definitely understand the motivations from a user standpoint for not needing to login to download.

There's some non-obvious benefits we get as a small team by requiring login, in addition to new user growth. Bandwidth for hosting data can be large, and it's easier to reason about and prevent abuse in the context of authenticated users.

We do enable previewing the dataset while logged out, and the preview functionality will become more full-featured.

<comment><USER6> I disagree with the parent. You've taken the time to organize and host these datasets. The least we can do is create an account to download them.

<comment><USER7> Sure, but then maybe don't call it "public" as people will think it can be downloaded without creating an account. Calling something public but require account creation is misleading.

<comment><USER8> I'm not sure I'd agree- the data is accessible to anyone who wants it for free. There's no restrictions on creating the account.

Radio is free, but you hear advertisements. Probably better to create an account than to have product placement in the actual data.

<comment><USER7> The restriction I'm talking about is creating the account. "Public" (at least for me) does not mean that I need to agree to some lengthy "terms of service", "privacy policy" and create an account. Public means it's public and can be accessed from curl or my browser of choice without signing a contract.

Not sure were you are from, but where I'm from (Sweden), public radio (not free but public) and public TV is free of advertisement and does not require me to sign up for an account to be able to listen to/watch it. That's what I call public.

\- [https://www.kaggle.com/terms](https://www.kaggle.com/terms)

\- [https://www.kaggle.com/about/privacy](https://www.kaggle.com/about/privacy)

<comment><USER6> When Kaggle is saying "public" dataset, they're implying the origin of the dataset is public. Meaning, the datasets were created by various groups/companies/institutions and made available for the general public. Kaggle is simply hosting them again. They're doing us a service by organizing them all into one location and eating the bandwidth costs. My argument is that in return for that service to us, the least we can do is create an account with them.

<comment><USER7> I have no problem with them offering datasets to the public and just requiring to sign up for an account. But call then Kaggle-Public, Semi-Public or anything else, public data has a meaning that is not what they are doing.

For example, the government where I live (Catalunya) has public data. So I can go to the website and click download, no account required. If that data was distributed via Kaggle and requires account signup to get, I would not consider what they are providing public.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> This is gold. When I wrote the NeuralRedis module I had so much fun downloading a few random datasets from Kaggle and wrap it in a few lines of Ruby script to check what the results were in terms of predictions. Normally the data is very high quality, the format well documented, and so forth. However make sure to check the license for the details depending on what use you plan to do.

</comment><comment><USER10> What happens when the company changes direction? If there's a shift of priorities, an internal restructuring, a "strategic startup pivot", an acquisition?

Not to assume bad faith on Kaggle's part, but we got burned one too many times with private companies pushing their proprietary ("open") platforms for gobbling up data. The "it's free! just create an account — data lock-in — gap after project death/monetization" pattern leaves me a little cynical.

It's awesome that resources like these exist, but I'd be more comfortable paying attention if this was hosted as raw data somewhere (Github?), with a clear licensing and access model.

<comment><AUTHOR> We joined Google via acquisition one year ago, and Kaggle Datasets has grown from 450 datasets to over 13,000 in that timeframe. We are firmly committed to supporting and growing this platform.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> The Awesome Public Datasets Github repo [1] also constitutes a good effort at organizing all of the open data out there that people can play around with.

[1] [https://github.com/awesomedata/awesome-public- datasets](https://github.com/awesomedata/awesome-public-datasets)

</comment><comment><USER12> Wonderful, thanks for sharing this! It's useful that the kernels people have submitted are there as well and that there is a HN-style upvoting mechanism.

As an aside – I'm really curious to explore the datasets with "fake" in the title :)

[https://www.kaggle.com/datasets?sortBy=relevance&group=publi...](https://www.kaggle.com/datasets?sortBy=relevance&group=public&search=fake&page=1&pageSize=20&size=all&filetype=all&license=all)

</comment><comment><USER13> It would help if the datasets were categorized by data type. Timeseries, multilabel, etc...

<comment><AUTHOR> Not all the datasets are ML specific, but hopefully this helps:

\- [https://www.kaggle.com/tags](https://www.kaggle.com/tags)

\- [https://www.kaggle.com/tags/linguistics](https://www.kaggle.com/tags/linguistics)

\- [https://www.kaggle.com/tags/multiclass- classification](https://www.kaggle.com/tags/multiclass-classification)

\- [https://www.kaggle.com/tags/text-data](https://www.kaggle.com/tags/text- data)

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Is there an announcement of some kind of change? Are they still owned by Google? Or is this the thing where sometimes existing solutions will hit the front page of HN? :)

<comment><AUTHOR> I shared this because another public data portal that I don't think has changed in years ended up at the top of HN. Kaggle Datasets has grown by over an order of magnitude in the past year, and jumps in scale fundamentally changes the utility of community products like this

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Any plan to share same data/files using IPFS?</comment>


Crowd-funding meets open-source - <AUTHOR> http://alexbcoles.com/code/2012/04/02/crowd-control.html

<comment><USER2> I don't know where to start for funding. We are a small company offering Environmental/Eco friendly promotional products. 17 years in business. Need $15,000 short term to wherther this past recession. Can you help me.</comment>