The User Is Drunk - <AUTHOR> http://theuserisdrunk.com/ <comment><USER2> Love it -

How about this as an alternative: The user is stuck in a very (corporate/government/sluggish) environment. I will review your site/app from a major bank's / federal government's offices and report back!

Or maybe this: The user is a 65 year old dad whose son doesn't come around often enough to ensure his father hasn't installed countless malware that he blames "internet" on. I will go to my dad's house and use his computer to browse your site/app and report back!

This list really should get longer, HN, I turn to you.

<comment><USER3> The user is a woman: standard UX testing, only you're forced to confront your own preconceptions for having assumed it would be otherwise.

<comment><USER4> > The user is a woman

Nothing changes.

Downvoters are sexist.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> The comments are suggesting that this is niche. I don't think it's niche at all. On products I've worked on, I've frequently declared that all usability testing should be done when you're exhausted and grumpy. You don't tolerate

        * pointless process,
        * extraneous fields,
        * improperly labeled things,
        * poor ordering,
        * sloppy UX flow,
        * excessively accurate controls,
        * super-tiny buttons,
        * things when you're like that.

In a similar way, when you're drunk, you can't /do/ process like that.

I think it's a lovely idea and more systems should be designed with that in mind.

Drunk, I might be able to operate a computer as well as my grandmother; so, if it can support me drunk, it can support my grandmother.

<comment><USER6> > * super-tiny buttons,

He includes a link to his website, which has a very tiny and fairly condense header bar but plenty of white space. Perhaps he should hire himself?

<comment><USER7> Plus it works with 6 colors.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> "The User is Drunk" is explained better in video by Will Dayble of Squareweave: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2CbbBLVaPk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2CbbBLVaPk)

Also, OP's post seems more like "The UX Consultant is Drunk".

<comment><USER9> And the discussion of that video: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7655281](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7655281)

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> If you're concerned about your drinking habits, you should probably not check out aa.org. There is little solid evidence that AA is a particularly effective treatment for alcoholism. Various types of therapy with real trained and certified therapists have good success rates backed by actual scientific evidence, as do certain prescription drugs. Combining them likely has an even better success rate. Talk to your doctor.

[http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/10/26/alcoholics-anonymous- mu...](http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/10/26/alcoholics-anonymous-much-more- than-you-wanted-to-know/)

<comment><USER11> Definitely talk to your doctor.

It's not true to claim that there is no solid evidence suggesting that AA is not effective. There is a lot of shitty evidence both supporting and discrediting 12 step programs, and the author of the linked article has found plenty of shitty science to wave his hand at. Look through the dates of the studies referenced - 1967, 1981, 1985, 1996. The most recent paper there is almost 20 years old, with the exception of Project MATCH (2006), which the author appears to have not read very closely.

The Project MATCH paper which the author above dismisses as "showing everyone does the same with or without AA" actually shows that "12-step treatment had more than double the number of patients who were continuously abstinent at one year after treatment and about one third more at three years after treatment." That does not strike me as being "the same". The latter interpretation of the results comes from Harvard Medical School professors, the former from some random anonymous dick on the internet.

An article on the topic from the aforementioned Harvard Medical School professors (who are addressing a particularly well known "debunker" of AA, who also coincidentally has his own method he is trying to sell) can be read here - [http://commonhealth.wbur.org/2014/04/defense-12-step- addicti...](http://commonhealth.wbur.org/2014/04/defense-12-step-addiction). It references many recent, randomized, controlled studies that directly contradict the assertion that AA has no effect.

My own personal experience is that AA, when stripped down, is very strongly reminiscent of CBT (which I have also been on the receiving end of), mixed in with a strong social support network. I also have seen that AA in practice varies wildly from place to place, so my own experience is likely not the same one that you'd have in the Bible Belt or elsewhere.

If you're struggling, by all means check out a meeting AND talk to your doctor. If you hate AA, don't go anymore.

I tried and failed repeatedly to get sober on my own and with medical treatment for about 8 years, from 26 to 34. Since I have started going to AA, I have been sober for the longest period of time since I was legal to drink (19).

If I had read that smug, halfassed article you posted, I probably wouldn't have gone, and I probably would be either drunk or quite possibly dead, given my intake and behaviour. Addiction is no joke. If you don't know what you're talking about, keep your ignorance to yourself.

<comment><USER11> I realize the above post may come off as rather angry. I'm already anticipating a few "cult member identified!" replies.

I'd like you to reflect on the fact that you are suggesting people avoid the primary form of treatment suggested by the National Institute of Health, the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, the American Psychiatric Association, the Department of Veterans Affairs Health Care System, and many other large organizations. You are recommending against a successful mode of treatment for people who have a problem that is potentially life-threatening, that destroys both their lives and that of their families.

<comment><USER12> For what it's worth I thought the post was fantastic until the last paragraph, which was a valuable anecdote (and obviously a very personally significant one), but very confrontational. Understandably so, but the tone probably makes it less likely that a person on the fence would come around to your point of view.

<comment><USER11> You're right, that last bit was a bit of uncalled-for ranting. I would edit it to remove it, but I think doing so would mess with some of the discussion that has gone on since my post.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Well, it is a curious idea, and a very peculiar niche for a business! But... "Your website should be so simple, a drunk person could use it" is kind of arguable. For some sites (eg. hacker news...?) the desirable outcome is that a drunk person should probably not use it. Still, I suppose the tester can test for that as well.

</comment><comment><USER14> I'm assuming this is just attention grabbing for this guy's personal brand.

Always interesting to see what kind of marketing stunts get you to the front page.

If this were to be taken seriously, a guy regularly getting drunk is just sad, as alcoholism is a real problem that this seems to be brushing aside.

<comment><AUTHOR> As soon as I get a certain amount of clients, I'll cut this off. I'm not interested in drinking professionally.

<comment><USER15> So you're not interested in a sales job?

<comment><AUTHOR> Nope.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I just wanna give you props for how good this site looks on a vertical monitor. Full screen background images generally tend to break HARD, and sites are always either going into mobile mode or look ugly as hell. This looks like it was made for my monitor, though.

[http://i.imgur.com/DZBvync.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/DZBvync.jpg)

<comment><USER17> Is that i3 and surf?

<comment><USER16> i3wm and vimb

[https://fanglingsu.github.io/vimb/](https://fanglingsu.github.io/vimb/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Instead of testing it myself, I will go to the clubbing district of Hong Kong, and pay drunk users to test your website. You can tell me how many users you want to test. Starts at 3USD/user.

P.S.: This way I stay away from alcoholism, too.

<comment><AUTHOR> If you're going to be in Hong Kong this weekend, ping me. I'll be around. :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> I think there's also an opportunity here to crowdsource UX testing to our moms. They're the ultimate litmus test when it comes to being able to use technology.

<comment><USER20> how about instead of 'mom' we use 'inexperienced user', and don't make a bad assumption?

<comment><USER19> It's not a bad assumption, you've never tried to explain how to use the iPad to my mom.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> hacker news is now singlehandedly responsible for this guy being completely wasted for the next month.

well done, everyone.

<comment><USER22> the system works!

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> This is why it's immensely sad that Unix "won".

Unix's developers just didn't grok usability. At all. As a result, Unix is very sensitive to even small mistakes. It's like the OS was not intended to be operated by humans, with faulty memories and clumsy fingers.

VMS, on the other hand, was much more tolerant of drunk users, or just tired sysadmins who haven't had enough coffee. These considerations were baked in from the start, resulting in a far more robust command line environment.

</comment><comment><USER22> well, i threw my $50 in. looking forwards to the results! (mathbreakers.com)

<comment><USER24> Same here, for [http://transitfeeds.com](http://transitfeeds.com)

<comment><USER25> Why is "Sign in with GitHub" not a button? (Also, what value is there in doing that?)

<comment><USER24> Many of the features required sign-in previously, but now they don't. Some still do (e.g. API), but good point, it need to be better documented

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Well, that's what I have experienced for the past four years. I've been suffering from extreme brain fog due to very high copper and mercury levels which I'm getting detoxed, and that's more or less what I'm going through. It will be quite interesting to hear his thoughts.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I added a note about alcoholism. It is very serious.

Please check out AA if you or anyone you know relies on alcohol. aa.org.

<comment><USER27> AA has a bit of a reputation for spending more effort trying to get you to see God than to stop drinking.

<comment><AUTHOR> I highly suggest Dharma Punx if you're in California. Have some friends who have gotten a lot out of it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> "I'll get very drunk, and then review your website. I'll send you a document outlining where I thought the website needed help"

When you are drunk, would you be actually in the state of mind where you can document the issues ?

Even if you record your observations, will you remember the thought process that was happening in your mind while you did the review? Which is the most critical part of Usability Review.

Assuming the core idea is to test when an intoxicated person has effects like problem with muscle co-ordination and lack in decision making...

Probably a nice marketing trick...

<comment><AUTHOR> Let's find out! I doubt I'll remember the thought process.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> Hilarious. :) In case you want to catch common usability problems on your site, before he tests it, use [https://userium.com/](https://userium.com/)

</comment><comment><USER30> The user is left handed. As if there weren't enough left handed products websites should be too. Login/logout on the right side? Talk about equality. (It is a joke)

<comment><USER31> It is decided, all menus should be on the center!

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> haven't seen the similar Three Sheets Research mentioned yet: [http://threesheetsresearch.com/](http://threesheetsresearch.com/)

</comment><comment><USER33> This is actually kind of funny IMO. Definitely don't try this at home, especially if you're worried about your liver. Some people who ought to be worried about their liver aren't. [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9602154/Middle-a...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9602154/Middle- aged-drinkers-unwittingly-risking-their-health.html)

</comment><comment><USER34> Not a new idea. I used to follow: [http://threesheetsresearch.com/](http://threesheetsresearch.com/)

Unfortunately their last review dates from 2012 (ThreeSheets, if you hear me .. please come back !)

E.g., Check this hilarious Microsoft Surface drunk review: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cMVKW- fR1M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cMVKW-fR1M)

</comment><comment><USER35> I like that concept :).

I also like your `easy on the eye` site. I peeked at the code and found this little tiny typo:

        <meta property="og:url"content="http://theuserisdrunk.com/" />

A space is missing between url" and content.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! Fixed.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> This would be safer with a set of alcohol impairment googles ... you can at least simulate the blurry vision part of the experience - [http://www.lifeloc.com/goggles.aspx](http://www.lifeloc.com/goggles.aspx)

</comment><comment><USER37> [http://ux.stackexchange.com/questions/42026/could-user- tests...](http://ux.stackexchange.com/questions/42026/could-user-tests-with- impaired-drugged-tired-people-lead-to-better-interface)

</comment><comment><USER38> Been using this exact UX testing approach for years. Has served me well, no joke.

</comment><comment><USER39> This is an awesome idea. The example I'm most passionate about of web design I hate is an online pizza ordering site, because when I was intoxicated it was super confusing to just order a pizza.

</comment><comment><USER40> lol love this idea... but my target audience is teenage Asian girls who like anime. If OP's current thing is successful, will you be willing to do a theuserisajapaneseschoolgirl.com ?

<comment><USER41> _my target audience is teenage Asian girls who like anime_

I knew quite a few guys at uni shooting for that same target...

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> I like how I could't get anything out of this guy's personal website while drunk. Start to get your own stuff together before selling advices for other.

</comment><comment><USER43> Rajesh Koothrappali can do it with better with Non-Alcoholic Beer.

[https://youtu.be/aHtSD4oU2Ro?t=26s](https://youtu.be/aHtSD4oU2Ro?t=26s)

Kidding.

</comment><comment><USER44> Seems like a fantastic way to get someone to pass the bill on their drinking. Who knows if this will help any of their customers?

</comment><comment><USER45> So what prevents me from saving $150 and getting some homeless guy at the shelter to do this same shit for the price of a bottle?

<comment><USER46> Well, the homeless guy probably isn't a trained UX guy, for one, so you're not getting the same value. And you're probably enabling the substance abuse problem of a person in real trouble, so I mean there's an added moral weight here.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Maybe you can get drunk with Baby Boomers and let them test the website. Hilarious idea though! I think I will try it out soon.

</comment><comment><USER47> Interesting idea, but I think he should ask for at least 10 times what he does, given that he poisons himself for the job.

</comment><comment><USER48> Wonder if the author dog-fooded his concept, that would provide some real life use cases to serve as reference.

<comment><AUTHOR> I did. Wasn't an ideal real life case, though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER49> Love it! Here is the follow up? oneloveux.com Get your project reviewd buy stoned developers and creatives

</comment><comment><USER50> The price seem to be going up at some rate. It was $75 earlier, and now it's $80.

<comment><AUTHOR> Just trying to limit customers. I don't want to have to get drunk, if I can help it - here and there is better.

</comment></comment><comment><USER51> PEBCAB could be an issue.

<comment><USER3> Problem exists between chair and beer?

<comment><USER51> Ah, my people.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER52> hey! thats crazy that matt took the photo - i work with him.

<comment><AUTHOR> +1 for matt

</comment></comment><comment><USER53> Not surprisingly, TheUserIsHigh.com was registered today...

</comment><comment><USER54> I'll do the screencast for the beer only. :)

</comment><comment><USER55> Well, time for "theuserisonacid.com".

</comment><comment><USER56> Getting paid to be drunk. Kudos to the idea!

</comment><comment><USER57> Were you drunk when you created this?

</comment><comment><USER58> AKGs are decent headphones. Those look like 701s maybe? Or the discontinued 272? They're comfortable at least.

<comment><AUTHOR> 271s, iirc. Lost them a couple of months ago, sadly.

<comment><USER58> oh, good! the k2xx series is really bad. I had k272s. they're overpriced with really disappointing frequency rolloff [http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&gra...](http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID\[\]=2901&graphID\[\]=3281&scale=30) also poor build quality / really plasticy / no detachable cable

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER59> I've been very thankful that I couldn't navigate some websites drunk in the past.

</comment><comment><USER60> > Is this your only job? No. I have a full-time job changing the world.

dude, you do frontend development for a social network. how self-aggrandizing can you be. just say you work for a social network ffs.

<comment><USER61> Social Networks changed the world. Building one, even a small part can be rewarding. Maybe not everyone in the same position will feel the same way, but you should definitively not criticize him if he does.

Good for you, I also believe I'm changing the world, and I'm not here building rockets or anything like that.

<comment><USER62> I mean, by that broad definition, everyone is changing the world, it goes along with being a sentient being that exists in the world.

Although I can't tell if his "changing the world" comment was tongue-in-cheek or not, the tech industry does have a problem with self-importance... or at least, that's the broad perception of the industry, to the point that it gets parodied in media (see: HBO's Silicon Valley).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER63> Why not just post as show HN? If there's a nit, it'll be picked.

<comment><AUTHOR> I don't hang out on HN much. Can I post to show HN?

<comment><USER64> Typically you prefix "Show HN:" in the title, if showing your own product. Maybe because this is a place for news, primarily, and so it's not humble to link your own product as a news, but you can ask for community feedback with the prefix.</comment></comment></comment>


Major Hacker Conference Organizers Accused of Ignoring Harassment - <AUTHOR> https://gizmodo.com/major-hacker-conference-organizers-accused-of-ignoring-1821631895 <comment><USER2> The title is intentionally misleading; ignoring harassment is not the same as choosing not to mainstage the discussion through already limited presentation blocks. At the end of the day, someone's job is to schedule topics that interest the segment of their target market. Why? So that they can sell tickets, so they can pay for the venue, etc. etc. If you force topics that don't interest the HackerCon market, they don't come back, even if the discussion is 'for their own good'.

</comment><comment> nv-vn >Appelbaum denied the allegations at the time, calling the accusations "a calculated and targeted attack."

I think it's worth noting that no proof has been presented publicly, and to the contrary, 2 of the alleged victims have denied there being any sexual assault. So at least to a certain degree these are targeted attacks. Whether he was targeted because he sexually assaulted someone else is an open question, but there were some false claims.

<comment><USER3> I like the article of the zeit.

[http://www.zeit.de/kultur/2016-08/jacob-appelbaum-rape- sexua...](http://www.zeit.de/kultur/2016-08/jacob-appelbaum-rape-sexual-abuse- allegations/komplettansicht)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I always found this Code-of-conduct stuff ridiculous. Can you just go to the organizers, finger-point at somebody else and yell "muh feelingz are hurt" and the accused person will be kicked out? Does it really work that way?

Germany has laws on harassment, and so does probably every other western country. If you've been harassed, it is your right to go to the police and press charges.

And ffs, don't do fingerpointing on Twitter. We don't live in the dark ages, we don't burn witches anymore.

<comment><USER5> In the US, one can fill out a police report, but that doesn't mean that the police will opt to press charges. If one contacts the police to report a crime, they still need probable cause to press charges.

As for witch hunts, folks do get burned in the digital age, whether as result of posts on a public twitter feed, or worse yet in some cases, privately via other social media channels or other (digital) communication mechanisms. Publicly outing someone or a group is perhaps a last resort, but necessary in some cases.</comment></comment>


On Lisp - <AUTHOR> http://www.paulgraham.com/onlisp.html <comment><USER2> Instructions for printing it with lulu: [http://www.lurklurk.org/onlisp/onlisp.html](http://www.lurklurk.org/onlisp/onlisp.html) . I did this about a month ago and the copy I received was great.

<comment><USER3> Just tried to do this, and found that the cover image size doesn't seem accurate anymore. What did you do for the cover?

<comment><USER4> Really? I just made the book and ordered it last night and the cover (the 13MB png) looked like it lined up exactly. The first cover-uploader had a 10MB limit but the other worked fine (not the design-your-own, the 1-piece-cover- designer).

<comment><USER3> Turns out I was trying to get a hardcover. It worked just fine with a paperback.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I've been meaning to read this for quite some time, but I've been told that the idioms and coding style is outdated, or not very good. This isn't going to stop me, but I'd like to know from some experienced lispers what problems I might encounter. Especially as I'm pretty inexperienced myself. I definitely won't know what to look for.

<comment><USER6> It is written to a prior version of the Common Lisp standard, and with a very old-fashioned style. You'll see calls like (REPLACA pair val) instead of (SETF (CAR pair) val) and so on. That will irk you if you are a Common Lisp hacker already. If you're not, just keep in mind that good CL style results in somewhat prettier code than that in On Lisp.

<comment><USER5> I tried reading this back when I started writing lisp- and it's been a year since. I know I got stuck when I couldn't find functions in slime with C-d C-h, and just assumed that they were defined by the book. This is much more reassuring.

<comment><USER6> REPLACA and its cousin REPLACD are part of the Common Lisp standard, but they are indeed something you should probably never see. Even for mapping across a structure or something I'd prefer to write my own inline function. They along with TERPRI (newline) are the ugliest function names of CL.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Any advice or link for someone new to Lisp like me? Also, is there any good open source project using Lisp that I can fork/download and tinker with? I'm still having problem wrapping my head around Lisp. Even implementing some simple algorithms in Lisp took some time for me.

I think this is due to the fact that I learned to program in C. Nowadays I work mainly with python/ruby/javascript, but I got the feeling that I could improve myself as a programmer by learning Lisp.

<comment><USER8> You could have a look at the software below Hacker News. It's written in the Arc Lisp dialect (which itself is implemented on top of the Racket Lisp dialect).

Apart from Racket, Clojure is also a nice Lisp to get started with. It runs on the JVM.

I'd advice against learning Common Lisp as your first Lisp these days, even though Common Lisp is what On Lisp is about.

<comment><USER9> I'd advise exactly the opposite. While clojure and racket are excellent languages, they are very different from one another and CL. Telling someone to learn python or ruby if they ask about learning lua isn't a good advice, is it?

<comment><USER8> Oh, if your goal is to learn one of the Lisps, then don't spend any time on Common Lisp. It's old and ugly.

Similar, if someone asked about a modern scripting language, I'd send them away from Perl in favour of Python or Ruby.

If they goal was explicitly Perl (or Common Lisp) that would be a different thing, though.

<comment><USER10> >>Oh, if your goal is to learn one of the Lisps, then don't spend any time on Common Lisp. It's old and ugly.

why?

I don't find that at all, and a large reason for learning common lisp is as a learning exercise to become more intimately familiar with lambda calculus and s-expressions. The increased expressivity of clojure (for example) may hinder the very thought processes that make lisp a dialect worth learning. Of course they are both fine languages, but most people now advocate the learning of a LISP not for practicalities sake, but rather just to demonstrate real life things that those sets of languages do differently than nearly every other language, and to allow the programmer to take from those experiences and apply them to their language of choice.

From THAT standpoint, i'd advocate CL first, if not only for forcing the user of the language to experience the follies of certain practices, such as the namespace issues that Clojure tried to fix about CL.

<comment><USER11> > as a learning exercise to become more intimately familiar with lambda > calculus and s-expressions

Any Scheme implementation will be better for this. Much less primitives, one namespace for everything, hygienic macros, immutablity by default/encouraged.

CL is exactly the opposite of that - it's complicated because it wants to be practical. And for the most part it is. It supports procedural, functional and OO programming, probably logic programming too with the right library. It's designed as a real system for solving real problems - and as such is not the best tool for learning about lambda calculus. Actually you could program imperatively in CL for the long time before ever feeling awkward.

Scheme, with it's mandatory TCO and encouraged immutability is much better for learning lambda calculus... and about Lisp in general.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> What percentage of the techniques in this book are also applicable to Clojure programming? I don't know a lot about how the two macro systems differ.

<comment><USER13> A fair amount of the examples involve mutation; a practice that Clojure discourages. A lot of the macros are very instructive, however.

<comment><USER14> Indeed, _On Lisp_ has an excellent discussion of mutation and its use in programs written in a functional style. In discussing destructive functions, Graham describes the ways in which they can be used with reasonable safety - e.g. immediately mutating a list newly created by a mapping function.

The reasons one might do so in Clojure are likely to bear similarity to those provided by Graham - speed and memory - despite the vastly greater resources of today's computers versus those of 1991.

<comment><USER13> Very good point. Mutation is extremely useful when _birthing_ a new data structure; this is a time when it's not yet visible to the rest of the system so the danger of sharing intermediate state does not occur. Clojure has a very elegant facility for dealing with this particular scenario:

[http://clojure.org/transients](http://clojure.org/transients)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Also take a look on "Let Over Lambda" by Doug Hoyte about advanced macro techniques:

[http://letoverlambda.com/](http://letoverlambda.com/)

It's a pretty enjoyable book if you don't mind its preachiness. :-)

</comment><comment><USER16> Great book, but not if you are just starting out with Lisp. For that, see PG's other book:

[http://www.amazon.com/ANSI-Common-LISP-Paul- Graham/dp/013370...](http://www.amazon.com/ANSI-Common-LISP-Paul- Graham/dp/0133708756/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1377483440&sr=8-1&keywords=ansi+common+lisp)

Also make sure you check the errata for On Lisp, there are a few examples that you will really need the errata for.

<comment><USER9> Actually a much better place to start is Practical Common Lisp:

[http://gigamonkeys.com/book/](http://gigamonkeys.com/book/)

Or if you are now to programming in general:

[http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/](http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Cheers to PG for making this available.

</comment><comment><USER18> Wowza, it has been 20 years since this book was published. Time goes by too quickly :-(

</comment><comment><USER19> I thought 'oh, is this a new book'?

Then I looked at the date. It seems as though all 'classical' sources on lisp or functional paradigm are either two decades old, or just-out-yesteryear. What happened in between?

</comment><comment><USER20> Did someone try (and possibly succeed) converting it to epub, by chance?

<comment><USER21> [http://www.mbishop.name/post/4113599512/on-lisp-by-paul- grah...](http://www.mbishop.name/post/4113599512/on-lisp-by-paul-graham-an- epub-for-your-ipad)

<comment><USER20> thanks! although the diagrams don't seem to work for me, unfortunately

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Has anyone every tried to visualize lisp with a treemap? Maybe that would take care of the massive indentation problem that makes lisp so hard to read (for me).

<comment><USER23> It's 2013, and the top comment on a story about Lisp (on HN, a site written in Lisp) is complaining about syntax? Seriously, how much time did you actually spend learning/using Lisp before giving up because it had a "massive indentation problem"?

<comment><USER24> Surely expressing personal issues with Lisp's syntax is valid, especially if a possible solution is offered. If you see at least some of the larger codebases written in Lisp, it is natural to be overwhelmed by the level of indentation, which will cause the code to wrap under many editor setups.

<comment><USER23> I've heard people complain about parentheses, but _indentation_ isn't usually the issue. I challenge you: I looked at your personal website, and you seem to claim experience in Java and C. Show me a large codebase in Lisp and a large codebase in Java or C where the Lisp codebase is dramatically less readable than the Java or C codebase due to indentation.

<comment><USER22> You seem very upset. Calm down. I just had an idea that it might be fun to represent lisp code in a treemap. Or rather a zoomable treemap like this:

      http://bost.ocks.org/mike/treemap/

<comment><USER25> Perhaps like these?

[http://foldr.org/~michaelw/emacs/](http://foldr.org/~michaelw/emacs/)

<comment><USER4> I very much like the mwe-color-box.el example. Is something like that possible for backquoting? The quoting-levels would be much easier to see with nested background shading. I'll have to try it at home.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> I think I should read it in emacs ...running on an ec2 instance

</comment><comment><USER27> I look forward to reading this, however I object to the first reviewer comment: "The first book that really explains what Lisp is all about."

No, I think the first book to explain that was Godel, Escher, Bach.

</comment><comment><USER28> OT

how is arc progressing?

<comment><USER29> The Clojure inventor (Rich Hickey) took most of the good ideas from arc and all the arc enthusiasts have pretty much changed horses long ago to Clojure.

I think arc still has some good points related to code brevity that noone else has fully duplicated yet.

<comment><USER30> No. Clojure's first public release was before Arc's first public release. Rich was also working on Clojure for two years before release.

<comment><USER29> I stand corrected.

(and besides, most of the best ideas of Clojure are certainly due to Rich's insights)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Lisp is a dangerous language that shouldn't be taught or used these days. There are plenty of superior programming techniques.

Mathematical programming - linear programming, finite domain constraint programming, constraint logic programming, logic programming, relational programming

Static functional programming - ml, haskell

A good modern introduction to programming is Concepts, Techniques, and Models of Computer Programming, by Peter Van Roy and Saif Haridi. It's far superior to the commonly mentioned lisp book Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs.

<comment><USER32> What kind of argument is this.

> constraint logic programming, logic programming

The book you comment on actually implments a logic programming system.

Both common lisp and clojure have implmentations of high performance logic systems.

> Static functional programming

Both Clojure and Common Lisp have type systems that can do most things ml and haskell can do. Its arguable that some of this (in the CL) are even more powerful then what haskell has.

Im not sure on what the other types of programming are but the do not at sound like things that a library can not do. Can you give a example of something that you can not do in clojure or commen lisp that is possible without in these other languages that you have not actually provieded.

> Concepts, Techniques, and Models of Computer Programming

It is a very good book. However 99.99% of programming today are not done with these modern concepts. It are actually langauges like clojure that push some of the technics like constraint logic programming more into the mainstream. Check out core.logic.

<comment><USER33> > Both Clojure and Common Lisp have type systems that can do most things ml > and haskell can do.

I don't know about that, Haskell has quite a few very non-trivial extensions in it's type system that I have yet to see replicated outside of research languages. ( Rank-N Types, GADTs, Kind polymorphism, etc).

<comment><USER32> See things, like this [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi_%28programming_language%29](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi_%28programming_language%29) or [https://github.com/clojure/core.typed](https://github.com/clojure/core.typed)

<comment><USER33> Both of those projects implement fairly simple type systems, they both even look simpler than even ML. Having at least outer rank-1 quantification is what I consider a "modern" typing system.

<comment><USER32> Im not a expoert. But I think at least Qi is as advanced as haskell or ml. The clojure one is relativly new and not jet full featured.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Silicon Valley's Tech Culture: 'We Just Want to Be Alone' - <AUTHOR> http://www.cio.com/slideshow/detail/126277/Silicon-Valley-s-Tech-Culture---We-Just-Want-to-Be-Alone--

<comment><USER2> Wrong. Silicon Valley's tech culture is rooted in idealism. Not isolationism. The people who thrive in The Valley are those with the conviction to change the world, and, who choose technology to implement that change. No doubt, many of us idolize Elon, Larry, Mark and Steve because they have changed the world through conviction, determination, intelligence and deep understanding of technology. They attract like-minded people. The worlds we envision are the worlds we want to live in because in some way, we see them as better than the world we do live in. More fair. More equal, more free, more just, less pain. That is idealism.</comment>


How Millennials are reshaping health and wellness - <AUTHOR> http://www.quirks.com/articles/2015/20150209.aspx

<comment><USER2> _That said, Millennials have a complex relationship with insurance that long predates Obamacare. In many ways, health insurance epitomizes the tension between childhood and adulthood. It represents so much that's scary about being an adult – responsibility, complexity, expense, life's harsh realities – and Millennials don't want to grow up._

I'm getting pretty tired of reading broad, sweeping generalizations like that. Every time I read something that says "millennials are still acting like children" next to some stat about how many are still living with their parents I usually let out a giant yawn. Maybe that's just me, but we have to put everything in context here. Previous generations were brought up in the aftermath of large ground wars. Of course their cultural zeitgeist was a little more, shall we say, independent.

The other thing that struck me was the vaccine issue, though I'd suggest that that's because millennials haven't seen the real terrible effects of preventable diseases because they've been, well, prevented.

</comment><comment><USER3> I've read through this article twice and I can't put my finger on it, but there is something about the "sample population" that is bothering me. No mention of where those sampled are from, no mention of profession, but an emphasis on a couple of online groups. This just seems like a poor sampling to make a study off of.

If you were to take a mix of millennial and older technologists in the bay area, you would likely find some interesting overlaps (probably way more in tune than the study is showing) that are completely different if you took a sampling of a general popular somewhere in middle america even if both groups were "active online".

</comment><comment><USER4> _Millennials are known for their YOLO ("you only live once") attitude and this is generally true of their health care behaviors as well._

Ooooooooof.</comment>


http://ai./ - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> HN seems not to have generated the link properly -- maybe there is a URL filter that (like many!) parses this domain improperly?</comment>


Interactive explanation of the quantum Bell test - <AUTHOR> https://peteshadbolt.co.uk/chsh/ <comment><USER2> Thanks for this. I was confused at the end of the essay as to what the Bell test was actually looking at. To wit, what's the 'rule' used to turn the rotating crystal photon result into a statement?

The wikipedia page here [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_test_experiments](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_test_experiments) has a coherent explanation of the Bell test, and a bunch of history on how scientists have tried to rule out the question of 'locality' confounding these tests.

I seem to recall another related quantum explanation recently with graphs showing photons 'choosing' an open path, even when the 'closed' paths are down very long fiber optic cables, but I can't find the link right now.

</comment><comment><USER3> [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuvK- od647c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuvK-od647c) is a good overview that I really like for Bell's inequality. Worth a watch if you have the time.

</comment><comment><USER4> Just minor comment: I could not find a way to stop the "autoplay" of the games.

Is there an "advanced" followsup with more technical details and the calculations? I can do them, but I'm slightly lazy.

In case I decide to make the calculations, what are the angles between the polarizers? The graphic shows something like 45° but IIRC it was more interesting to do the experiment with smaller angles.

<comment><USER5> The angles are off by a factor of two. The difference between the two should be either 22.5° or 67.5° not 45° and 135°.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHSH_inequality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHSH_inequality)</comment></comment>


Ask HN: How Are the Play Store and the AppStore Not Monopolies? - <AUTHOR> I keep reading horror stories about developers having their apps removed from these stores and I still fail to understand how they're not legally considered as monopolies largely abusing their dominant position...
I get that neither Android nor iOS are monopolies on the smartphone market, but why aren't Android and iOS themselves considered as markets of their own, on which the Play Store and the AppStore are monopolies?
Why don't they NEED to propose alternative stores on install as it was the case with browsers on Windows in the past? <comment><USER2> The Play Store has alternatives, you can install alternative app stores on Android devices very easily and buy or configure devices that don't include Google services, install those services yourself etc.

[https://f-droid.org/](https://f-droid.org/)

[https://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=sxts_snpl_1_0_d21...](https://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=sxts_snpl_1_0_d21eee80-7245-41a7-9c31-ec53f2499655?docId=1000626391&)

</comment><comment><USER3> Apple's marketshare of global smartphone sales is around ~20%.

Would you still argue "monopoly"?

If you want access to Apple's customers (yes they are Apple's customers, not yours) then you have to play by Apple's rules.

This framing one of the arguments against monopoly characterization.

<comment><USER4> But they have most of the premium market. If you look at app revenues they're 2x android: [https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/16/apples-app-store- revenue-n...](https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/16/apples-app-store-revenue- nearly-double-that-of-google-play-in-first-half-of-2018/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> They are. It's just that no one wants to piss off the store owner by saying so.

See also: Spotify.

The EU will eventually break up the App stores. It's only a matter of time.</comment>


Show HN: Instantly generate 50 bite-sized flashcards to help you learn any topic - <AUTHOR> http://jugglr.org/?juggglr <comment><USER2> I was able to try some topics, but now the flashcards gone and I just see the random fact page. Anyway, I like it!</comment>


FBI worries Facebook's privacy first policy will be a 'child predator's dream' - <AUTHOR> https://sociable.co/social-media/fbi-worries-facebooks-privacy-first-policy-will-be-a-child-predators-dream/ <comment><USER2> > I can understand director Wray's frustration.

The surveillance state is growing daily, cell-phones and license plates and faces are getting increasingly tracked, and even with encryption, they'll have access to all the metadata of who contacted who, when, and how often (based on which the US military say they kill), so I really don't see what he has to be frustrated about. Even without message content, he has vastly more data available than at any point in history, including under the Stasi!

Of course I'm assuming once there is not an epidemic of terrorism and child molestation after Facebook implements encryption, all of these intelligence agencies will apologize and stop pushing for more surveillance powers.

</comment><comment><USER3> This is essentially the same "but what about the children" argument the government has been using for decades to keep people from using effective cryptography.

I'm pretty sure the Clinton administration used it to justify the Clipper chip.</comment>


Show HN: Git.io/memes – Meme up your README.md file with some emoticons - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/strayptr/memes

<comment><AUTHOR> I wanted to do something completely useless, so I did this. Though submitting a pull request with ![]([https://git.io/kapow](https://git.io/kapow)) turns out to be quite satisfying.</comment>


Turndownforwhat.js - <AUTHOR> https://nthitz.github.io/turndownforwhatjs/ <comment><USER2> Should be using HTTPS for imgur.com, to prevent "mixed (insecure) display content" warning.</comment>


Patrick Leigh Fermor: A Life in Letters - <AUTHOR> https://www.barnesandnoble.com/review/patrick-leigh-fermor-life-letters <comment><USER2> I have previously posted this on HN to good response, my Father (83) has been transcribing publishing his letters written over a 10 year period (1956-1966) traveling the world while in the navy, a diplomatic courier, and the consulate in Saigon leading up to the War.

[https://www.amazon.com/Dear-Mom-Odyssey-World-Travel- ebook/d...](https://www.amazon.com/Dear-Mom-Odyssey-World-Travel- ebook/dp/B01MR2ZQ5W)

<comment><USER3> Ah, I was actually wondering what became of that project :)

I first saw it when you posted a couple of letters to gauge interest. Looking forward to read it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Fermor is part of a whole cast of adventurers, like Richard Halliburton who lived life to the hilt. They lived in a certain time in place, where technology, access, risk, and the unknown nature of the world made classical adventure possible. Really good stuff.

</comment><comment><USER5> More details on the kidnapping of General Kreipe: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnap_of_Heinrich_Kreipe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnap_of_Heinrich_Kreipe)

<comment><USER5> And if you want some ideas on how they managed, it fitness-wise: [http://www.chrismcdougall.com/buy-natural-born-heroes- from-t...](http://www.chrismcdougall.com/buy-natural-born-heroes-from-these- sellers/)

(Written by the author of Born to Run).

<comment><USER6> The amazing thing is that Paddy himself (the leader of this daring raid) was just a normal English schoolboy, until he set off on his walk across Europe at age 16 or so...</comment></comment></comment>


Is Twitter Really Worth $10 Billion? - <AUTHOR> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323384604578328303487784818.html

<comment><USER2> HN guide: no.

Seriously, I do think Twitter is a great company, but one tenth of Amazon? The same as Nokia? Not to mention comparisons to non-tech companies...

I really don't get these valuations.

</comment><comment><USER3> How much would it take to replace it?

Considerably less than $10 billion.

From that perspective, the largest component of its value is good will. (Its users continue to use it.)

In a world where setting up a new account is 5 minutes' work, spinning up and effectively connecting new servers is challenging but increasingly a commodity service, and where a relatively loose and dynamic social dynamic of "following" is the model...

(And where advertising is significantly externalized and transferable.)

I'm no analyst nor expert, and I don't particularly wish Twitter ill, but...

I still view such valuations as short-term metrics. They may not be... but I don't think this has yet been demonstrated.</comment>


Django Query Inspector - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/dobarkod/django-queryinspect <comment><USER2> For those interested, here are a couple of differences between this and django-debug-toolbar (an excellent, widely used utility that also provides SQL inspection).

1\. django-debug-toolbar can be difficult to enable if you aren't serving from localhost (for security reasons, because your settings are included in the UI). This project looks much simpler to enable, as you just set DEBUG=True in your settings.

2\. django-debug-toolbar provides its information through a UI component embedded in your own UIs, but it doesn't help you with profiling HTTP APIs that don't have a UI. In contrast, this project puts some profiling information in the response headers, and SQL logs are sent to a logger. I think this use case is where Django Query Inspector shows a lot of utility.

<comment><USER3> I don't understand #1. You can have DjDT show up only on a condition, e.g. when someone is a superuser. Isn't it the same as this project?

<comment><USER2> What I meant is that getting the toolbar to show up when you aren't serving from localhost isn't as trivial as setting DEBUG=True. It requires other settings ([https://github.com/django-debug-toolbar/django-debug- toolbar...](https://github.com/django-debug-toolbar/django-debug- toolbar/blob/f1a30456cf2a85bf45e5bc0d8c95fd2ac3fc23a7/debug_toolbar/middleware.py#L26)) which can be annoying to configure.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Always nice to see more tools, and the X- headers idea is pretty neat. I've been using a mix of django-debug-toolbar (mentioned repeatedly in this thread), and django-devserver[1], which is more useful when writing non-html serving APIs and suchlike where a toolbar doesn't make sense.

[1] [https://github.com/dcramer/django- devserver](https://github.com/dcramer/django-devserver)

</comment><comment><USER5> This is a nice tool, although I really like the Django Debug Toolbar, which does that and a bit more: [https://github.com/django-debug-toolbar/django- debug-toolbar](https://github.com/django-debug-toolbar/django-debug-toolbar)

<comment><AUTHOR> I love DjDT, but it doesn't detect duplicate queries and can't be used for non-HTML responses (eg JSON APIs).

<comment><USER6> I have a hack for that!

[https://gist.github.com/leetrout/ab136dbfb97f8ee1d309](https://gist.github.com/leetrout/ab136dbfb97f8ee1d309)

;)

Edit: After install appending `?dbg=1` to a JSON returning view will inject the html wrapper. e.g. [http://foo.com/bar.json?dbg=1](http://foo.com/bar.json?dbg=1)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Shameless self promotion: Here is a decorator I wrote to help me inspect performance issues using Django's DOM. The nice thing about this over Django- Debug-Toolbar is that it runs single function rather than the whole view helping you narrow down an issue. You can also add filters to remove unwanted noise during your analysis.

[http://pushingkarma.com/notebook/django-decorator-print- sql-...](http://pushingkarma.com/notebook/django-decorator-print-sql-queries/)

</comment><comment><USER8> Theres also silk ([https://github.com/mtford90/silk](https://github.com/mtford90/silk)) which was posted recently. It doesnt seem to do the duplicate detection as yours does but does provide a UI and works with APIs. Also gives you a history.

</comment><comment><USER9> I love tools like these.

The developer probably wasn't aware of it but there's an opensource project which is trying to get a standardized profiler going for all web dev platforms: [http://miniprofiler.com](http://miniprofiler.com)

It would be good to see projects like this done on top of the miniprofiler base.

</comment><comment><USER10> Probably nobody is looking at this thread now, but just in case... I've had similar code I use in Flask apps for awhile now and this project inspired me to turn it into a legit Flask Extension:

[https://github.com/noise/flask-queryinspect](https://github.com/noise/flask- queryinspect)

</comment><comment><USER11> This is very cool and light, I also love not having to bob, back and forth between terminal and browser.

</comment><comment><USER12> Looks good, Debug Toolbar stopped displaying for me recently (not been able to work out why) and this looks useful for standalone SQL debugging.</comment>


Boston: Amazing Tech Witho the Misogyny - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@amyspurling1/boston-amazing-tech-w-o-the-misogyny-3d72cc2ec26d <comment><USER2> I find dubious the idea that these issues are less severe in Boston (or any other city), but I have no experience with the matter. Either way, I thought this was a really good point:

> Those same VC jerks that are losing their jobs right now — do you think they > invested in a bunch of nice guys? Of course not — they invested in guys just > like themselves.</comment>


GIVE HN: I will convert your designs into Facebook landing pages. (free) - <AUTHOR>

The Offer:
I would like to convert your HTML+CSS designs into Facebook-compatible code free of charge. Your designs can include javascript interactions like slideshows, image galleries, tabs, show/hide effects, etc but you don't need to actually code it since I'll have to do that in FBJS.
Some possible uses are: 1) Your startup's Facebook page. 2) Your branding page or personal profile as a freelancer. 3) A page for one of your client's companies.
How it Works:
Just email me a link to a page that you've mocked up as your Facebook page. You can include jquery effects such as slideshows etc, and I'll try my best to recreate everything in Facebook-compatible code. I'll let you know if I can't recreate a certain effect. When I'm done, I'll send you the fully rendered code ready to drop into Facebook. It's 100% yours to keep and publish as you wish. Easiest way would be to embed it via the FBML application. (I can instruct you on how to do this)
Why?
As per your permission I'd like to include your pages as sample pages that were produced with the web service I am currently working on. You can find more information about that here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1524019
No strings attached, I just want to use my service to improve upon it, find out what interactions users want in their pages, and above all: get some nice looking samples! So if you are a designer, please take me up on my offer. Your beautiful designs + my development time = win/win
Post here and/or email firstname.lastname@example.com to take me up on the offer. <comment><USER2> Cool! I just passed this on to a client. I'll ping you if they're interested.

</comment><comment><USER3> Can i take a rain check on this?

<comment><AUTHOR> No problem, just get in touch with me so I can put you in the queue. This is a very casual offer, as helping others is essentially helping myself be a better page creator. email is in the bio!</comment></comment>


Mustermenschen - <AUTHOR> https://mish.co/essays/mustermenschen/ <comment><USER2> Nice text but Muster in german also has a positive conotation. A Musterschüler (Musterstudent) is basicly a flawless student.</comment>


Ask HN: Examples of excellent technical writing - <AUTHOR> Does anybody have any examples of what they would consider <i>excellent</i> technical writing (preferably paragraphs or small examples over books or larger projects)? <comment><USER2> Raymond Chen's writing: [https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/](https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/)

Joel Spolsky writing: [http://www.joelonsoftware.com/](http://www.joelonsoftware.com/)

</comment><comment><USER3> John R. Ellis' doctoral thesis - Bulldog: A Compiler for VLIW Architectures ([http://www.cs.yale.edu/publications/techreports/tr364.pdf](http://www.cs.yale.edu/publications/techreports/tr364.pdf)) is an example of excellent technical writing.

</comment><comment><USER4> CLHS [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Lisp_HyperSpec](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Lisp_HyperSpec)

<comment><USER5> Example of egregiously bad technical writing:

"22.214.171.124.1 Splicing in Modified BNF Syntax"

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Martin Fowler - [http://www.martinfowler.com/bliki/](http://www.martinfowler.com/bliki/)</comment>


VPN over VPS in VM shell (Running my own VPN server) - <AUTHOR> Hello,As we know no VPNs even the safest VPNs like AirVPN or ProtonVPN? are really safe, in fact there is always the problem that none of us users really know if they keeps logs.My solution would be to host running a VPN on a rented VPS server in order to personally manage it.To do so I do not want to limit at something pre-compiled, such as "digital ocean", infact my plan is to run it in Softether host inside a VPS.The scheme should be so:
Within a Windows Server VPS placed in some data center run VMware emulating another operating system, within this guest run Softether host app.Then connect via VPN tunnel from Softether host app to my real domestic PC.
I just wonder if the VPS server owner or the VPS internet operator itself could actually trace the source back to my real PC even though ill establish a VPN tunnelling from softether to my actual pc.
PS: The idea of running everything inside a VM instead of into just the VPS itself  is to make the Softether logs inaccessible to a potential attacker protecting them in a shell, plus mask the imei and the operation system.I look forward to understand if they (NSA or potential attackers) would have some way to track back the encrypted VPN connection from Softether to my current PC <comment><USER2> Is your question:

"Can law enforcement determine the real source IP if I use a VPS as a VPN gateway?" If so, the answer is yes. Either with a scary email or a warrant, they can dump the memory contents of your VM. In some cases they can live migrate a copy and do forensics on it. They can also capture traffic flows to and from your VPS node.

If your question is: "Can the average internet server determine my source IP?" The answer is no, provided that you force all traffic, including DNS queries, over your VPN. There are sites you can use for simple leak detection. [1] [2]

[1] - [https://ipleak.net/](https://ipleak.net/)

[2] - [https://browserleaks.com/](https://browserleaks.com/)

<comment><AUTHOR> Are you sure the VPS ISP won't see the destination IP of the softether tunnel? (My real pc) I knew that they won't for sure see what's inside that tunnel but what about the destination?

<comment><USER2> When you say "destination IP of the softether tunnel (your real PC)" Do you mean that you have 2 PC's tunneled to each other over that VPN? If so, the VPN provider would of course see both ends of their tunnel.

<comment><AUTHOR> No, only one pc, mine. But I think is the same they will spot the destination of the vpn tunnel. What about chaining more than one configuration like this? I mean, if so, the VPS Provider will see in the ending of the softether vpn tunnel another vps provider chained so may this configuration help me in terms of anonimity? Maybe chaining 3 or 4 configuration like this could increase a lot the time one potential attacker will spend to resolve all the node. In your opinion chaining VPN (VPNinception) could give me more anonimity?</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: General hosted solution for server logs/monitoring/analytics/errors? - <AUTHOR> I've been trying to find a good hosted general solution for my company's server logs. Either my google-fu is failing me, or this is a surprisingly untapped market, or both.
Some features I'm looking for:
- Easily pipe arbitrary logs into the service
- Analyze common log formats, make them searchable/create analytics out of them
- Bonus points for nginx log analytics
- Traffic/hit rates/error rates visualizations over long periods of time.
- Big bonus points for sentry-like error
Here's some apps I tried:
- Cloudwatch (https://aws.amazon.com/cloudwatch/). I'm on an AWS stack but I really not a fan of it.
- Papertrail (https://papertrailapp.com/). Great for system logs but not much else.
- Currently trying Server Density
(https://www.serverdensity.com/). Liking it a lot, but seems to be very centered around monitoring rather than general-purpose.
- Huge fan of Sentry (https://getsentry.com/welcome/). Will likely be using it regardless.
- Piwik supports log analytics (https://piwik.org/log-analytics/) but the hosted version is very pricy
What I'm basically looking for is a hosted version of papertrail+sentry+SD+piwik. Does this really not exist or am I completely missing something? <comment><USER2> Have a look at [https://logentries.com/](https://logentries.com/) and maybe [http://www.splunk.com/en_us/products/splunk- light.html](http://www.splunk.com/en_us/products/splunk-light.html) for searching and analytics. Splunk started with a knowledge base of common errors, not sure if they still have that.

Personally I'm exploring [https://www.hostedgraphite.com/](https://www.hostedgraphite.com/) for the graphs and alerting.

</comment><comment><USER3> A proper logging solution:

ELK - elasticsearch - logstash -kibana

A docker image will have you up and running in minutes.

If you're looking for open-source, mature "analytics" solution, then checkout Snowplow analytics</comment>


Show HN: Exwog – Simple Document Generator - <AUTHOR> https://exwog.com/ <comment><USER2> Looks interesting but the name is unfortunate.

[https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/wog](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/wog)

<comment><AUTHOR> Sorry. I did not know such a word (my native language is Russian).</comment></comment>


BadaBingle = BingGoogle² - <AUTHOR> http://www.badabingle.com

<comment><USER2> Google is still king of freshness:

[http://knowyourcode.com/badabingle/results.php?query=badabin...](http://knowyourcode.com/badabingle/results.php?query=badabingle)

(At the time of posting, Bing returns no results. Google already indexed it)

<comment><USER3> Although interestingly, as I post this, Bing returns the one (correct) result while Google attempts to redirect me to a Sopranos Wikipedia page and clutters the main results with a few irrelevant links.

<comment><USER2> I suspect that Google's results will correct themselves over time, if Badabingle proves popular or even just has an interest spike.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Yawn. I might as well have two browser windows open. This should ferret out duplicates and merge the two sets of results. Like a metasearch engine.

<comment><USER5> There are tons of sites like this that aggregate search engines in frames, so is definitely nothing new. He just happened to pick the two popular search engines of the time.

Yeah, tabs for the win.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Am I the only one tired by all those two-frame tools that "compare" two search engines which are being published at news.yc?

GoogleAskYahooBing... that's enough to compare, we can do it ourselves.

(In fact, I used to do that kind of things when I was eight, using frontpage. Not now)

</comment><comment><USER7> I've found bing results to be comparable to google so far (mostly identical), but bing just lost a lot of respect from me:

search: "learn you a * for great good"

Bing returns no results .. it doesn't respect the wildcard.

</comment><comment><USER8> Interesting. I see bing fixed, at least partially, their very partial "Why is windows so expensive" embarrassment.

</comment><comment><USER9> I hope your legal team is on standby.

</comment><comment><USER10> oBYCFactoid: Bing finds my posterous page, Google doesn't.

</comment><comment><USER11> This is very useful. I started this new blog a couple of days ago and it's already first in Google but not listed in Bing yet. But Bing had other related good links. Would it be possible to combine them in one window but with a little G and B identifier next to each link?

[http://knowyourcode.com/badabingle/results.php?query=habit+h...](http://knowyourcode.com/badabingle/results.php?query=habit+hacking)

</comment><comment><USER12> that's pretty cool I must say</comment>


Drive-through lane pipelining and parallelization - <AUTHOR> https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2012/09/05/order/ <comment><USER2> Starbucks will do this if the line is getting long - one barista goes down getting orders and creating a queue of tagged cups, the other charges you at the head of the line.

(Hasn't yet happened that the coffee has arrived before payment but ...)</comment>


Dish to Close Boost Purchase from T-Mobile After Months of Talks - <AUTHOR> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-17/dish-to-close-boost-purchase-from-t-mobile-after-months-of-talks <comment><AUTHOR> For those who have trouble with the link:

[https://web.archive.org/web/20200617231901/https://www.bloom...](https://web.archive.org/web/20200617231901/https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-17/dish- to-close-boost-purchase-from-t-mobile-after-months-of-talks)</comment>


Furor on Claim Women's Choices Create Gender Gap in Comp Sci - <AUTHOR> https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2018/06/25/lecturers-explanation-gender-gap-computer-science-it-reflect-womens-choices <comment><USER2> "Now a new manifesto against diversity efforts in technology has been published..." I hate this style of leading the reader into what to think journalism.

Stuart Reges does nothing of the kind, inflammatory blogger.

It's a blog article where he simply talks about the situation, and they says he thinks women don't code is simply because coding is unappealing to them, just like pink and dolls are unappealing to boys. He's asking for discussion; he's not declaring anything. This type of journalism is why we can't discuss gender in development.</comment>