MIT moves all classes online for the rest of the semester - <AUTHOR> https://web.mit.edu/covid19/update-from-president-l-rafael-reif-to-the-mit-community/ <comment><USER2> I think large decisive moves like this may seem to some to be an overreaction, but it will prove to be the correct decision in hindsight (like the early travel bans). Exponential growth is real, and anything we can do to slow the rate of infection will save lives.

As a current undergrad at UC Berkeley, they've moved all classes here online [1], and exams are either being postponed or converted to take-home assignments. I'm currently accessing lectures through Zoom.

[1] [https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/03/09/as-coronavirus- spreads-...](https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/03/09/as-coronavirus-spreads-uc- berkeley-suspends-in-person-instruction/)

<comment><USER3> Actually, I think it's likely going to be seen as an overreaction in hindsight by the general public (even though it may not be).

If these actions are successful in curbing the virus' spread, most people won't appreciate how bad things could have really gotten.

<comment><USER4> It's a common thread in Incident Response & "Resilience Engineering" that preventative measures that reduce the blast of incidents are always blamed, especially if they work. Whatever ends up working to fix the incident, you should have done it sooner or it was too drastic a response. (No matter the fact that it _did_ fix the incident, outsiders will blame you that way).

One example is the Knight Capital trading disaster, where they eventually noticed (I don't remember the exact number) X minutes after the runway trading bot had been put into place, and shut it down, but got blamed for not shutting down the trading soon enough.

Can't find any links about this right now though :(

<comment><USER5> I'm reminded of year 2000. Yes complete overreaction, but I'm also certain it would not have been such a non-event if it weren't for that extreme attention it got.

<comment><USER6> Most of the bad things predicted by the media wouldn't have happened even if no effort was spent. However there would have been a lot of things not predicted by the media that would have been bad. The bad things the media predicted were easy to put into a sentence, while the bad things that would have happened would take books to explain. They would only really be bad because of the sum total happening all at once.

<comment><USER7> This.

Everyday people in the leadup to y2k assumed it meant that every computer would somehow explode. Almost nobody stopped to actually reason through the real life consequence of a program getting the date and time wrong.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> One of my coworkers daughters is affected by this.

The big question this begs:

If there is no refund being offered for the content shifting online from in- person, why have in-person at all?

Is room and board going to be refunded?

If courses being taught online is an acceptable substitute, why have caps on admission at all? Edit: Understood that infinite sized classes aren't workable for human intensive grading, interactions, etc.

<comment><USER9> I don't think anyone believes online is an acceptable substitute to a traditional MIT education, but it's a lot better than nothing, and better than continuing the in person teaching.

I'm an MIT grad and know the benefits of being on campus. In fact I spent more time in the lab than I did in classes or my dorm and that just isn't possible online.

My son's school (Courant) has sent everyone home too, with online substitute, but like MIT that only really works for undergrads.

<comment><USER10> I went to MIT too and with the exception of about three classes, every single in-person class was a waste. The value the school offers is, in order:

\- the people you meet \- the brand name on your resume \- the psets and structured guide to learning hard things

Notice that the last two still work over Zoom. If I were in the hard sciences this might be different but as a professional Software Engineer, the classes were almost entirely irrelevant to me.

<comment><USER11> I disagree.

Maybe your specialty is a different case, but there's no way on Earth that I would have gotten access to the equipment I used without the lab. Doesn't have to be MIT's lab, but someone has to have the ridiculous amounts of money necessary to construct and outfit advanced research labs if a student is to replicate that experience.

And that hypothetical, "someone", would have been unlikely to allow me to use it simply because I taught myself a bit about, say, nanomaterials online.

Let's be frank, if you need a lab, you're screwed.

<comment><USER12> That seems like the most difficult situation. I also assume that there are a lot of people who are/were on track to graduate who need to finish an undergraduate thesis. (I assume those are still required for some majors.) There are only two real choices at this point I would think: Pretend everyone completed the current semester's coursework/projects satisfactorily or require a summer session or some other form of make up time.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> > Undergraduates who live in an MIT residence or fraternity, sorority or > independent living group (FSILG) must begin packing and departing this > Saturday, March 14. We are requiring undergraduates to depart from campus > residences no later than noon on Tuesday, March 17.

This is strange. Isn't the travel they are forcing quite possibly a cure worse than the disease? And are they really expecting students (many of them international) to go home within a week, seeing that flights are getting cancelled all over the place?

They do seem to have reasonable exceptions for students who "have concerns that they would not be allowed to return to MIT due to visa issues" or who "will have difficulty returning to their home country if it has been hard-hit by COVID-19" or who "do not have a home to go to, or for whom going home would be unsafe given the circumstances of their home country or homelife". I'm wondering how reasonably these will be implemented, though.

In what way are dorms worse than personal homes for diseases anyway? Are they not trusting their students to prepare their own food? Why don't they just close the dining halls instead?

<comment><USER14> >In what way are dorms worse than personal homes for diseases anyway? Are they not trusting their students to prepare their own food? Why don't they just close the dining halls instead?

The dorms have shared bathrooms, often shared _rooms_ with doubles, triples, and quads, and shared living spaces (lounges, study rooms, laundry, etc.) in addition to the dining halls. Moreover, in our dorms, we have effectively no way to eat if the dining halls close down. Since mine has a dining hall for us to eat, it has only one kitchen for the entire dorm, which is ~500 people.

Edit: It's also worth pointing out that MIT students are at very low risk right now. Sending us all home _before_ we're at a medium/high risk level is the right move, so students aren't bringing it home with them. Nobody on campus has tested positive yet (as far as we know), and once it reaches the campus it would spread like crazy. Better to preempt it and send us away now.

<comment><USER15> >Moreover, in our dorms, we have effectively no way to eat if the dining halls close down.

That sounds crazy to me, in Poland there's a multitude of cheap restaurants full of students close to every university campus. There's a big demand because universities are packed with students that don't cook for themselves. Why hasn't the same happened to the US then?

<comment><USER16> There are plenty of fast food places/corner stores/restaurants/groceries in Cambridge within walking distance of MIT dorms. So the "no way to eat" part is a bit dramatic.

<comment><USER14> The closest grocery is Target in Central square, which is extremely limited or maybe Trader Joe's, which also isn't the same. The Star Market that was right behind campus closed a couple years ago. It's not so easy, in my opinion.

<comment><USER16> That Target is less than a mile from all of campus, and a quarter mile from the closest dorms. That's easy walking distance. What am I missing?

<comment><USER17> That Target barely has any groceries, it's a small general department store. But yeah there is Trader Joe's, H-Mart, and Whole Foods. Market Basket is a bit further but more like a real grocery.

<comment><USER16> Yeah, the point is there's a wealth of options for food within a an easy hour round trip of walking (not just specifically the one Target). And a lot more if you have access to a bike. People are not going to starve to death when the alternative is walking 15 minutes to a grocery store. Let's be real. Downtown Cambridge is NOT some food desert like what exists in other parts of the US, where you could walk for hours and not reach the nearest grocery store (this is particularly prevalent in rural areas).

<comment><USER18> This is the point though, if things deteriorate none of these options will be viable.

<comment><USER16> They can't shut down the grocery stores for long periods of time for the simple fact that people will start starving to death, which has a mortality rate strictly worse than any pandemic disease. The only retail businesses still open in the worst-struck parts of China and Italy are the grocery stores and pharmacies, because they _have_ to be open. They are essential. Some of my relatives are Italian and they have to book a specific time slot to go to the grocery store, and that and the pharmacy/doctor/hospital are the only things they can be on the roads to do.

These options will continue to be viable unless society completely collapses, which doesn't seem in the cards here.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> I can see why the university is taking the actions that it is doing, but on the other hand, if I were still and undergrad, and suddenly told that I had to pack up all my stuff and move within the next 3 days, I can only imagine the chaos that entails. Every student on campus now has to suddenly not only find a place to stay, but also a way to move everything on short notice.

<comment><USER20> They're providing packing materials and helping with the move.

Financially, they say:

> We understand that being asked to leave campus may pose a serious financial > hardship for certain individuals. Students will receive a follow up > communication on this matter.

It's unclear what their solution is, but they seem to have thought about it...

<comment><USER21> It would be nice if they had thought about it enough to offer some sort of concrete solution. I can only imagine how stressful and infuriating the situation MIT is imposing on its students must be for many of them.

<comment><USER22> To be fair, MIT tends to handle this sort of thing pretty well, and informally. I expect it doesn't have clear policies, but that it will try to do right by people on a case-by-case basis based on people's individual circumstances. I wouldn't take this quite so cynically.

That's not to say the Institute isn't corrupt, evil, and horrible in other ways, but this is not one of the ways in which it's evil. The badness mostly starts with higher-ups and schemes in the many millions of dollars.

<comment><USER23> >The badness mostly starts with higher-ups and schemes in the many millions of dollars.

That kind of badness tends to corrupt entire organizations if left unchecked.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> The "empty out campus" bit seems a bit overmuch to me. What's the epidemiologists' take on something like this?

I can see asking students who left for spring break not to come back. But asking students currently on campus to leave, and even demanding that they travel internationally, seems like it might just increase everyone's risk of exposure, and spread it around. Especially considering that, at least according to the stats they post on their website, about 75% of their international students are from Asia or Europe.

<comment><USER22> Not an epidemiologist, but a Boston resident. Generally, people under 30 completely ignore anything about the coronavirus here. You have people hitting a different nightclub each night, going to parties, and that sort of thing.

A college town full of students who see their risk as 0.1% is not what you want right now.

Now, a more sensible thing might be to close the nightclubs, bars, and parties. But the city hasn't done that. Patient zero will probably infect hundred here.

And the people who will die will be the elderly (which includes a lot of faculty too).

<comment><USER25> So you have tens of thousands of people, who all have been in close proximity, now exposing their risk to their family. And if these college students have any elderly family members, that could pose a serious risk.

By forcing people to go home, rather than shelter in place, everyone has increased contact with others and public infrastructure where the virus could be.

<comment><USER22> Now here, you have to consider who is making the decisions.

The president of MIT was born in 1950. The Chairman of the Board was class of '73\. Virtually everyone in senior leadership are in categories with 10+% mortality rates.

I'm not cynical about everything about the Institute (see my other comments, correcting cynical theories), but this is a place where I know many of the personalities involved personally, and I'm definitely very, very cynical.

<comment><USER25> High-risk individuals should be quarantining themselves. It'd be a far more effective strategy than any other measure.

<comment><USER26> But then in this situation, who is going to teach the classes?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> I never understood why US universities have so many more rights over their tenants than other landlords. Why do they have the right to terminate what's effectively a rental agreement with only a week's notice?

<comment><USER28> I don't get it either. It was especially irritating at my university because the dorms were several thousand dollars a semester more expensive than larger, better apartments nearby, but they were the worst landlords I ever had. They would kick me out all the time, while still charging me rent. During finals week you had to be gone within 24 hours of taking your last final or be fined. If schools in the US aren't going to be free, they should at least be held to the same laws that other institutions that provide the same services are.

<comment><USER29> Be fined? Is that in a contract? Seems odd with private companies being able to fine people.

<comment><USER28> Public university

<comment><USER29> Oh I guess that gives more power if state ran but someone below this thread mentioned even regular apartments will fine you... and I assumed by regular apartments they mean private then.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Sensible precautions. Multiple cases of people arriving from the USA to Australia with COVID19 suggest the virus is much more widespread than admitted by the government[1]. Large gatherings of any sort should be curtailed to prevent a similar crisis to what is occurring in Italy.

[1][https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-11/coronavirus- infection...](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-11/coronavirus-infection- prompts-closure-of-melbourne-school/12044594)

</comment><comment><USER31> From that link: "Undergraduates should not return to campus after spring break."

Harvard have announced the same thing: [https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2020/3/11/harvard- coronav...](https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2020/3/11/harvard-coronavirus- classes-cancelled/)

</comment><comment><USER28> Isn't it way worse to make everyone travel? If any of the students had contracted the virus wouldn't it be better to keep it contained at the University rather than bringing it to where they're from?

<comment><USER32> From what I understand the mitigation strategy has moved from "containing the virus" to reducing peak transmission rate — spreading out.

In your scenarios:

1\. "keep it contained at the university" would probably look like: thousands of students, staff, businesses get the coronavirus rapidly over the course of the next two months (possibly overwhelming local hospitals), proceed to spread across the other densely populated area universities, Boston, NY, Spring Break, summer internships, travel everywhere happens post-mass-infection phase. Many deaths attributable to the campus being open likely.

2\. Single person brings it to where they're from - same effects of a single sick person traveling we're seeing in the US every day (including what brought it to Boston). Unless they're going to another densely populated university or conference, which if more measures like this take place they should not be, the impact will be far less.

At this point they aren't aware of any students who have it, so a likely scenario if nothing is done is that the student population GETS it from the Biogen outbreak in Cambridge, AND spreads it at a much higher rate across the local area, country, world.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> Same at Harvard, undergrads have to leave their dorms [https://dso.college.harvard.edu/coronavirusfaq](https://dso.college.harvard.edu/coronavirusfaq)

</comment><comment><USER34> And now Massachusetts has several buildings ready to serve as makeshift hospitals should the need arise.

</comment><comment><USER35> Kind of missing some historical context here:

* Has MIT ever suspended a semester before?

* Have they ever run a shortened or extra class year? I seem to remember something unusual happened during WW2?

<comment><AUTHOR> I believe the Kent State shooting caused a similar cancellation of classes.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> I expect to see this at more and more universities in the US over the next couple of weeks. I have friends who work in the higher education technology space, and they mentioned that many schools are starting to plan for this.

</comment><comment><USER37> At my university, Syracuse University, we just learned that school will be online preliminary for one week after our spring break ends. (Finish this week of school, spring break, then online for a week after)[0].

Not sure that all my peers going home is the best idea. Also, we on campus have watch those from the Florence Abroad Program come back to campus and attend events. Not too likely to have been infected, but I'm worried about all our parents and grandparents.

I wonder, what will my Korean or Chinese friends do? If they are expected possibly to have to be back on campus in a month, they can't go home and come back, they can't stay here, so they have to pay for an apartment for a month?

[0] [https://www.waer.org/post/syracuse-university-cancels- campus...](https://www.waer.org/post/syracuse-university-cancels-campus- classes-thru-march-30-over-virus-concerns-moving-online-ed)

</comment><comment><USER38> My college is doing the same right now. It's a small residential college about an hour's drive from the nearest confirmed case. Campus mood is indescribable. I think the move is for the best but as a graduating senior it's a very emotional time.

</comment><comment><USER31> Stanford just announced they are doing this too.

Email sent out 20 minutes ago says "SPRING QUARTER CLASSES: Stanford will begin the spring quarter on time, but we will use virtual learning, rather than in-person classes, until further notice."

</comment><comment><USER39> This sucks, but it's better to get the students out now before it becomes impossible due to travel restrictions. They must've thought about this carefully, weighed the pros and cons. This is just getting started in the US.

</comment><comment><USER40> Tremendous respect for MIT but I am dismayed that one of the world's leading institutions just told students to ship out with what appears to be little regard for the difficulties. Arranging for transportation, alternate housing, storage, etc runs into real costs which many don't be able to bear on top of tuition, board, and other fees that schools routinely charge.

MIT's research enterprise does not seem to be affected, however...

</comment><comment><USER41> Not directly related, but the Caltech rumor mill says that we'll following suit soon: since second quarter finishes in ~1 week, they'll probably make third quarter virtual somehow. As it turns out, there's actually a potential case _on campus_ (which is, not gonna lie, kinda scary), so the affected individual's test results will probably influence what happens in the next couple days.

</comment><comment><USER42> The "problem" with all of these precautions is that, if it's successful, it will look a lot like an over reaction when all is said and done. Which I suppose is better than the alternative, but I worry that successful prevention in this case will, the next time there's an issue like this, make people a bit less likely to take appropriate preventative measures.

<comment><USER43> or vice versa. When the crisis does not escalate others will attribute the success to the decisive actions of leaders! "See? We should do this more often to save lives"

Of course who knows what would have happened without the response.

</comment></comment><comment><USER44> This seems like its likely to have dramatically more serious consequences for the less privileged students.

Lots of people don't have a place other than school they can live & be successful.

<comment><USER45> Do you mean less privileged MIT students? I though MIT is pretty good about giving scholarships and grants to those who are admitted. If your family income is below some threshold they fully cover the costs.

<comment><USER46> Flights may be reimbursed to go home for low-income students, but not all students have a safe home to go back to. A common issue could be homophobia or transphobia. Some students are also highly reliant on on-campus jobs for income that makes gives them a living wage. This whiplash relocation may make finding new sources of income really hard for certain geographies/students.

The list of complications just goes on... and let it be known that there are still some classes that haven't canceled exams or other large milestones through this Friday.

<comment><USER45> Okay didn't realize they have to leave the dorm also when I first read it. But it looks like they can make exceptions for...

> Students who do not have a home to go to, or for whom going home would be > unsafe given the circumstances of their home country or homelife.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> All lost in the upheaval is that you can't "just take" a course in a classroom and make it online - especially not on a two-three days notice.

Online courses are surprisingly difficult to get right.

Here is what I predict this ad-hoc online teaching will be like: professors will take their slides and put them on a webpage. There you have an online course.

<comment><AUTHOR> Most classes already post lecture videos, slides, review materials, and problem sets online. Yes, the quality of education will be degraded, but not severely so.

Lab classes are a different matter entirely.

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> I am skeptical of these things. I would have cancelled classes but left everyone in their dorms. All the travel is no good, and high density but young and healthy people (watch their health improve with no crushing amounts of homework!) I wouldn't expect to speed up an epidemic as long as they aren't traveling.

<comment><USER49> There's a multitude of good reasons to close the dorms. People are sharing bedrooms, common areas, bathrooms and kitchens with far more people than they would be in the average private domicile. The network effect of communal living, combined with the generally more lax sanitary/hygenic standards of a younger population, makes any dorm highly at risk for becoming a hotspot, of any infectious disease (and indeed it's quite common for colds, flus and even more serious diseases to cause epidemics in college dormitories).

</comment></comment><comment><USER50> Sidestepping for a moment the illness itself, and whether you call this panic or caution, or whether the panic/caution is well-founded, or how inconvenient it is... I love this and all the other examples of it. Greatly increased numbers of people, companies, schools and conferences etc. are suddenly exploring the possibilities of remote meeting & working technologies, some for the first time. Many will inadvertently demonstrate to themselves certain truths they might never have discovered otherwise. And when the epidemic is over, a certain number of them will be much more amenable to letting me, rdiddly, work remotely, which of course is always a plus, because commuting out there sucks balls and so do noisy offices!

</comment><comment> an-allen Imagine paying $50,000+ a year for education that provides no labs, no campus experience, and no personal interaction with other students and professors.... Now imagine that 50k a year landlord telling you to pack your shit and get out in 2 weeks.

<comment><USER51> I have a feeling that many of the students aren't paying anywhere near that $50/year.

</comment></comment><comment><USER52> Where will students go?

1\. Students with financial difficulties or out of state students

2\. International students

<comment><USER53> The letter says contact administration and it will be handled on a case by case basis.

 _shrug_ , probably the best thing to do.

</comment></comment><comment><USER54> My university (UC Santa Barbara) just cancelled all in-person classes minutes ago. I would expect students to start leaving campus soon, but it's not required so I guess it's better than this…

</comment><comment><USER55> We got similar news at Cornell today, with professors being advised to go online asap but will be forced to in early April which is also when students will be sent home. The problem here is that most upperclassmen live off-campus and can't be forced to disperse. Furthermore, many students are from NYC where they'll visit during spring break and then come back to Ithaca. The atmosphere on campus is very nonchalant; most are more upset by cancelled events than the possibility of encountering the virus.

</comment><comment><USER56> Imagine how cool it would be if MIT would make "read only" transmissions of these sessions freely available.

(I know that MIT has already made many courses available on yootoob. Those are wonderful, I've watched many myself.)

Upon re-reading my lecture notes from long ago, they are sadly incomprehensible without the lecture that went with it. It would be great to be able to review those lectures and refresh my memory. I remember attending one given by Feynman for which no record exists.

<comment><USER57> Have you tried OpenCourseWare from MIT[1]? Tends to have more stuff than YouTube :) lecture notes, and typically assignments as well. Also, some professors from MIT have courses on edx.org. [1](ocw.mit.edu)

<comment><USER56> The Roku box had an OpenCourseWare MIT channel which I enjoyed watching, but they let it die of neglect. :-(

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER58> What's going to happen during the next pandemic if these measures are successful? I could easily see a few months from now people complaining about how we shut down everything, took a big hit to the economy, and it all turned out to not be a big deal. Next time, some people will say "oh we did all that stuff for the coronavirus and it was just a big hoax. We don't need to do that stuff again."

</comment><comment><USER59> As other commenters have mentioned, Harvard has also enacted a similar policy.

I'm currently not in Boston, but I received an email this morning essentially instructing me to not return to campus for the foreseeable future. A family member of mine is also a graduate student at UCLA and they were also informed that all coursework would be conducted online for the next month.

</comment><comment><USER60> I guess it will help to make MOOC platforms like Coursera[1] and edX[2] much better. It did help to improve online education platforms in China already.

[1] [https://github.com/coursera](https://github.com/coursera)

[2] [https://github.com/edx](https://github.com/edx)

<comment><USER61> I can't seem to find a source, but I thought I'd read that MIT and Hardvard and others were either pulling out or removing old courses from edX due to some accessibility laws. Does anybody know what I'm talking about?

</comment></comment><comment><USER62> Similar action was taken by Johns Hopkins University a couple hours ago. [https://hub.jhu.edu/assets/uploads/sites/2/2020/03/jhu_covid...](https://hub.jhu.edu/assets/uploads/sites/2/2020/03/jhu_covid_guidelines.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER63> I wish more schools would do this and lower tuition significantly. I completed Georgia Tech's online M.S. in information security some years ago and it was an incredible learning experience. After having done college both ways, for me at least online was absolutely the best method, it's not even close.

</comment><comment><USER64> I'm at Cornell and the admin just announced online learning for all undergraduates for the rest of semester.

</comment><comment><USER65> The focus has all been on colleges and universities announcing that they're closing face-face-instruction for the month/quarter/semester but we're scrambling trying to find something that works for K-12 schools.

        * Students at the college level can be counted on to self-study /to an
          extent/ if you make accommodations and provide the resources they need
        * Internet access can be taken for granted when dealing with college
          students
        * Colleges are largely beholden only unto themselves, a college typically
          doesn't *actually* need to have students complete the curriculum
          before x date because they can shuffle things around and make
          provisions internally, whereas high school students taking
          standardized exams, applying to colleges, etc. don't /necessarily/
          have that luxury.
        * Kids are slovenly and have poor hygiene,
        * Schools need to factor in National School Breakfast/Lunch programs
          and other welfare programs that absolutely rely on having all the kids
          corralled in a single place for x hours a day
        * Imagine the mess if suddenly every family without a stay-at-home parent
          suddenly had to arrange for someone to watch their elementary school
          student
        * Pretty much all colleges/universities have *some* online component to
          their education, even if it's just a portal where assignments can be
          posted. A lot of schools have no such system in place whatsoever, and
          now have to not only find such a solution but also train their faculty
          on its use and migrate/import/create the virtual classrooms, etc.

The biggest issue is that we simply don't know how localized any school closures would be or how long any closure would last. If we're the only ones to close our HS, colleges won't be very accommodating to our juniors when they're applying in the fall without having completed some class or the other. If we're the only HS closing down, the CollegeBoard isn't going to reschedule any AP exams. For all other grades, if a self-imposed closure is only a couple of weeks long, we can just take an early and extended spring break, but if it's longer than that then setting up some sort of distance learning is a must. But if it's shorter, then there's no point in scrambling about trying to reach an at-best 60% coverage of the curriculum with younger students that need considerable face-time to grasp concepts and require more interactive lessons.

It's a very tough call all around.

<comment><USER66> Yep, this. The US public school system is in no way prepared for remote education, or any solution to supplement the impact we're facing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER67> Is there any blogs or interviews with people who have the virus and aren't over 60 years old?

I tried to find some things on Google but shockingly I can't find anything. I want to know what it's like to have it (from the perspective of someone who is young and healthy)

</comment><comment><USER68> Gonna suck for foreign undergrads, or anyone who doesn't have a "home" to return to. I think student loans or similar would pay/contribute to dorm living and eating, but living out on the economy might not. ?

<comment><USER69> maybe go back and read it in full where it talks about that?

</comment></comment><comment><USER70> Duke just suspended all classes until further notice (moving online); also adding a one week extension to spring break (which is this week... probably to prepare for the online setup) and asking people not to return to Durham.

</comment><comment><USER71> Also Politecnico of Bari (Italy) made this choice but wasn't on Hacker News

</comment><comment><USER72> Maybe they could finally offer graduate-level classes online like what Stanford does with SCPD or Georgia Tech with OMS CS... So far one had to be in Boston physically.

</comment><comment><USER73> My current company is stating they "don't have a work from home policy." Very frustrating and conflicts with my try not to get sick policy ...

</comment><comment><USER74> Welp, even my university will go down this route now!

</comment><comment><USER75> Schools could undercut one of Bernie Sanders' major platforms by using this as an opportunity to start offering free/low-cost, LIVE courses online, reserving networking and on-campus support opportunities for formally-accepted students. I'd be surprised that this wasn't happening, if not for the cluelessness and/or callousness the moneyed set that make up the constituency of America's top schools seem to be approaching everything these days. As a disabled acquaintance bemoaned about similar developments in teleworking policy: "They've always been able to do it, they just didn't care until their asses were at risk."

<comment><USER76> Sorry to be flippant, but:

[https://www.edx.org/](https://www.edx.org/)

They already do that. It's not quite "LIVE", but it's close. When you sign up for a certificate, you take the course along with a cohort of other students during a preset period of several weeks. There are staff and other students available to talk and answer questions in a shared forum, your work is graded, and the lectures/homework/exams/etc are spaced into weekly modules.

Sadly, the quality varies wildly between institutions and it doesn't seem to work as well as an in-person education for most people. But the affordability and availability make them excellent for helping to expand equality of access and get people started down the road of becoming proficient in specialized topics.

<comment><USER75> If it's "not quite live," then they don't "already do that." There is value to being part of a first-class experience as it plays out, even as a second-class observer, that's over and above dealing with a glorified educational DVR and meaningless certification. But the point is that MIT et al. have lost a credible rebuttal to anyone floating the notion of, "Why not?"; to anyone wondering why the live academic lectures of old, that were ostensibly open to the public but that were limited to people who could afford to be in a particular building at a particular time, haven't seen their progeny truly open to the public as the accessibility of mass communication has grown.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER77> How the world has changed. 100 years ago governments glorified war and sent their youth to their deaths. With what narrative did they blind everyone to the common sense that killing is bad.? Today, the possibility of illness closes entire schools and nations. Maybe the world is coming to its senses. But then again, may be the narrative is rooted in an era of phobia that will transform the world. Are we becoming Niven's puppeteers?

</comment><comment><USER78> I guess they will have to, otherwise they'll be sued into oblivion if anybody catches so much as a cold.

</comment><comment><USER79> Maybe they want them empty to be able to convert them to makeshift hospitals

<comment><USER80> You would use elementary schools for that purpose, they are much more evenly spread; not universities.

</comment></comment><comment><USER81> Hopefully students make recordings of their classes, for future reference.

</comment><comment><USER82> Wait but they're gonna fly home that doesn't make sense either

<comment><USER83> probably MIT administration tries to CYA by "Doing Something" "out of abundance of caution". After all if people get infected while on campus some creative lawyer may probably sue whereis MIT would bear no responsibility for whatever happens as result of all those people forced to spread around the country and the globe.

Some commenters mentioned that that is a preparation for possible outbreak there. Well, i'd think that preparation for outbreak would be making sure that various resources are stocked up (e.g. masks, handheld non-contact infrared thermometers, etc.), necessary personnel brought up and trained, "civilians" educated and all the travel and mass gatherings canceled/discouraged, quarantine procedures and checkpoints are established and ready to be activated, etc... That of course cost money and other resources. An alternative is to kick the can out to somewhere else.

</comment></comment><comment><USER84> No results in the page for "refund." They're not refunding students prorated dorm, credit, etc. fees? I hope there are lawsuits coming on part of the students.

<comment><USER85> You seem to be jumping to conclusions without any supporting information. You've done it twice in this thread already.

I understand that the world can be an ugly place right now, but filling in your lack of firsthand knowledge with negativity from your imagination doesn't benefit anyone.

That also seems like an exhausting way to operate.

<comment><USER84> Coming to the conclusion there will be no refunds based on the article not saying anything about refunds is jumping to conclusions how?

<comment><USER85> Yes, coming to the conclusion that they're screwing the students out of money, accusing them of crony capitalism, and hoping there are lawsuits all based on your own conclusion with no supporting information is definitely jumping to conclusions.

You're being disingenuous now, so there's no point in paying any further attention to you.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER86> Tufts also, after an extended spring break.

</comment><comment><USER87> is this move to protect the students or the faculty?

<comment><USER88> this is to protect the health care system and all of the residents of the region, by reducing the density of a very large very dense, externally densely connected and high travel community in advance of a serious epidemic that may (likely will) require more intensive care beds than the region has to provide.

</comment></comment><comment><USER89> There are an overwhelming number of comments here assuming this policy is enacted in such a way that it ignores the challenges of underprivileged students.

Who are these commenters. Why do they assume this.

What is going on.

MIT (and many other higher education providers) seem to be trying to preempt the spread of a disease.

If someone has specific, concrete, information about someone who is harmed by this and whose difficulties are ignored by administration, of course, comment!

But all this hypothetical speculation feels mean spirited.

<comment><USER90> At least one Harvard undergrad has pointed out concrete flaws in implementation of this policy, and how it affects him personally [1].

That said, I also sympathize with administrators, who had to pick a course of action in a chaotic environment and make it work.

[1] [https://twitter.com/hakeemangulu/status/1237367253374398465](https://twitter.com/hakeemangulu/status/1237367253374398465)

</comment></comment><comment><USER91> > _to slow a spreading virus like COVID-19_

The naming of this thing is such a disaster, even MIT can't get it right.

\- the virus is called SARS-CoV-2 (like HIV)

\- the disease it causes is named COVID-19 (like AIDS)

\- pretty much everyone calls both the virus and the disease coronavirus

<comment><USER92> That's because COVID-19 looks like a JIRA ticket, and people shudder a bit when they type it out.

<comment><USER13> If it's also as slow as one, we're not in danger.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER93> It's interesting that Harvard and MIT have done this. UW makes a little bit more sense, but the scale of the known outbreak in Cambridge isn't nearly as large at the moment (I live in Kendall Square and work next to MIT).

Interestingly, UMass Boston still hasn't done this despite having a student confirmed with it a few weeks ago. I wonder if the administrations believe Columbia/Stanford/MIT/Harvard students deserve more protection or something - that sort of attitude wouldn't surprise me.

<comment><USER54> I think it's interesting that private schools made this decision earlier.

<comment><USER26> Cynically, I wonder how big a role the fear of lawsuits is playing. Private institutions might be more sensitive to that possibility than state-run schools.

<comment><USER93> They also have more resources than most state run schools.

Which reinforces my original thesis

<comment><USER94> Yes we all want ivy leagues to be protected first.

<comment><USER93> I can't tell if you're being serious...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER95> Can the headline be improved? I opened it as the title gives no impression of being temporary or linked to COVID-19.

<comment><USER96> I've added "for the rest of the semester", which is explicit about being temporary and I suppose implies enough about covid-19.

(Submitted title was "MIT moves all classes online, requires undergraduates to leave campus".)

<comment><USER31> As a non-US national I never really know what a "semester" is with respect to US universities. Not sure what a better title would be though. The key information here in my opinion is that students are being told not o come back in a few weeks following spring break.

<comment><USER97> U.S universities typically have two sessions per year: the "fall semester" (usually September-December) and the "spring semester" (usually January-May). Each course (e.g., Introduction to Chemistry) typically runs one semester. A full-time student usually studies 3-4 courses per semester.

Many universities also offer a small number of courses during the summer break. Some universities allow certain courses to be only a half-semester in duration.

<comment><USER98> Many universities (but not MIT) are on a quarter system. I honestly don't know which one is more prevalent.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER99> I am not a doctor but I honestly do not see why the current state warrants such drastic actions.

Is it, objectively, so much worse than usual seasonal flu epidemics? An honest question, any scientific/quantitative pointers appreciated!

<comment><USER100> [https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-compared-to- flu-...](https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-compared-to-flu- mortality-rates-2020-3)

</comment></comment><comment><USER101> I think they might have to normalize closing campuses and dorms every flu season (All of winter semester). I don't know why we tolerate the lackadaisical attitude towards a theoretically preventable or slow downable communicable disease.

</comment><comment><USER102> Speaking of the underprivileged kids. Here in S.F where we have some really high rents, I heard a story from a friend that there was a student who was living in a van and spent most of his time in the lobby of the student center. I wonder if the MIT gang will start living in their cars. This could be the beginning of a new hyper mobile tech road warrior culture... Like all the MIT kids will meet up in random spots around the country and somebody will drive up a box truck with whatever laser or experiment they're working on. Total Bruce Sterling novel in the making here...

<comment><USER103> /notfunny. Student homelessness is real, as is student food insecurity.

</comment></comment><comment><USER104> This kicking students out of dorms by MIT is insane! They are a being a terrible landlord. How is having thousands of students packing up their stuff better than them just staying put? Won't this make passing on the virus easier?

Those dorms are going to be sitting empty after the students move out. Seriously, what is the logic behind this mess?

</comment><comment><USER105> The real reason behind such a move is the culture of litigation in the US. Someone made your coffee too hot? Sue them. Someone stepped on your toe? Sue them. In this case, everyone is ducking for cover because they don't want to be the focus of a lawsuit that claims they didn't do anything to prevent the spread of the disease. The people who make these decisions at MIT are not unintelligent. They have all the resources and risk models at their disposal. They have obviously found that the financial risk to the school is greater if they don't send all the students away vs if they do.

<comment><USER106> > Someone made your coffee too hot? Sue them.

I don't necessarily disagree with your overall sentiment here, but I always feel the need to point out that this is a really bad example of a frivolous lawsuit. That lady's car didn't have cupholders, which was pretty common on '90s cars, and the coffee was hot enough to fuse her labia together. You can look up pictures; it wasn't pretty. She also only sued for medical damages and nothing more, if I remember correctly.</comment></comment>


What is a poison pill and why have so many companies adopted them recently? - <AUTHOR> https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/04/26/what-is-a-poison-pill-and-why-have-so-many-compani.aspx <comment><USER2> It's interesting to me that a corporation, which is inherently just a fake legal entity, has a multitude of ways to escape negative outcomes while individuals get fucked every time they lose their job or other negative outcome. Basically, we protect the fake legal entity a hundredfold times more than a living, breathing human.</comment>


Is two to the power of infinity more than infinity? (2014) - <AUTHOR> http://igoro.com/archive/is-two-to-the-power-of-infinity-more-than-infinity/ <comment><USER2> The article can be summed up as "yes, it's more".

The article cites continuum hypothesis (or rather, links a Wikipedia article for formula), but that one _is not about whether it 's greater or not_, as the hypothesis assumes that there is inequality.

All in all, the article doesn't even mention how to prove this inequality.

Also,

> So, is it true that that 2^∞ > ∞? The answer depends on which notion of > infinity we use. The infinity of limits has no size concept, and the formula > would be false.

Not really. The "infinity of limits" is not an object you can compare to, it's just a notion that the sequence behaves in certain way. On this ground the formula "2^∞ > ∞" is ill-formed.</comment>


Review of Balsamiq, Mockingbird and MockFlow - <AUTHOR> http://devgrow.com/review-of-balsamiq-mockingbird-and-mockflow/

<comment><USER2> I must be getting old and curmudgeonly because yesterday I was arguing against CRM in favor of spreadsheets and today I'm arguing against mockup tools in favor of pen and paper...

Again: we tried several tools including Balsamiq, Mockingbird, Photoshop, PowerPoint, Keynote, and others. Ultimately, what worked best was a combination of a whiteboard and paper.

1) Gather a few team members in a meeting room

2) Give each person their own color marker

3) Go nuts on the whiteboard, draw whatever comes to mind.

4) Make lots of revisions. This is the best part: It's a whiteboard! Erase with your finger. Get over it, get dirty, mix colors, make a mess. Who cares?

5) When you're ready, let your best "artist" redraw it on the whiteboard nice and big so everyone can make even more revisions.

6) On paper or a laptop or whatever, take notes of any edge cases or things you simply didn't think of earlier.

7) Repeat 3 to 6 until you're happy.

8) Transcribe to paper. This is vital! Do not just take a photo. You need to have every single screen on it's own piece of paper, so you can thumb through them later.

9) Write the name of the screen on the top edge of the back of the page. This is so you can quickly skim through the stack backwards to find the page you are looking for.

10) Write any notes about the behavior of the page on the front as callouts or on the back as commentary.

11) Photocopy the whole stack and hand out to the team.

12) Encourage everyone else to write all over them in red pen

13) Bring the notes to the next meeting & start all over until it's close enough to go to implementation.

Note: this advice is for NEW UIs. I still haven't quite figured out the best way to handle changes to EXISTING UIs. There seems to be a mismatch in our brains when you try to draw stuff on top of print outs of real screens. The resulting markups look out of place next to polished features, so they don't get the same thought process as a completely hand drawn mockup. I've got to do more experimentation here...

<comment><USER3> You could call that advice old and curmudgeonly, I suppose. You could also call it lightweight and agile, and still be right. That's the power of marketing!

(Seriously though, I think this is a good approach, and thank you for putting it so clearly.)

<comment><USER2> Maybe I should write a book, title it "Lightweight Agile Engineering By A Not So Old, But Still Quite Curmudgeonly, Hotshot Full-Stack Developer, Ninja Rockstar"

In addition to the chapters "Spreadsheets Are Pretty Much Always Better Than Writing Code" and "Love Thy Whiteboard", there could be chapters titled "How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Command Line", "Visual Debuggers Are For People Who Can't Read", "Big Oh-My-God It's Not That Hard", and "Seriously Guys, Someone Already Did That Way Better".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'd speculate that if this review were done in 6 months, Balsamiq would be the hands down winner given the writer's criteria.

The balsamiq team is working on a new project: myBalsamiq <https://www.mybalsamiq.com/> . It looks like it will make both sharing and collaboration dead easy. You can even get a sneak preview of how the Balsamiq team are using it. <https://our.mybalsamiq.com/projects/>

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm the author of the post. I did actually come across their comparison table, which states that a web app is in the works, just I totally forgot to mention that in the post. I just played around with the project you linked to though and I must say, it is pretty amazing. Depending on the pricing scheme they end up with, I would definitely reconsider my choice.

<comment><USER5> email me at email@example.com, I'll see what I can do about getting you early access to myBalsamiq... ;)

Re: pricing, here's what we're thinking: <http://www.balsamiq.com/buy?p=myb>

<comment><USER6> Hey! I want early access. I even asked for it months ago...

(eagerly waiting...)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I've been really impressed with LucidChart recently. I'm on a trial account and will probably sign up. It's not limited or specifically focused on wireframing, it's something closer to a lightweight OmniGraffle or Visio.

</comment><comment><USER8> you forgot iplotz! intuitive, lots of controls (+more), easy sharing (png or html), collaborative features, desktop version, import images etc.</comment>