Intro to Node on AWS Lambda for S3 and Kinesis - <AUTHOR> http://eng.localytics.com/taming-aws-lambda-for-s3-and-kinesis-at-localytics/

<comment><USER2> Is there a way to automatically kill Lambda if the cost is going out of control because of an infinite loop? As a solo dev I cant be willing to bet hundreds or thousands of dollars potentially lost because of a bad piece of code I wrote. If thats possible it seems like a nice service that will save a lot of time not having to worry about doing server administration.

My ask HN post from earlier today basically asking the same thing [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9520964](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9520964)

<comment><USER3> Lambda functions can execute for a maximum of 60 seconds.

<comment><AUTHOR> But, if you have more than one Lambda working on a single S3 bucket, for example, it's possible to trigger executions infinitely.

Edit: my mistake - you still can't have multiple lambdas operating on a single S3 bucket. I had triggered an infinite loop by manipulating files in the same bucket that it was triggered on (triggering another execution, infinitely).

<comment><USER4> Last time I checked, you could only have one Lambda function attached to bucket events at a time.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yep, but if your lambda creates a new file in that bucket, it'll get called again (as an example).

Edit: realized my mistake in the wording of my comment above - _how_ I made the infinite loop had escaped me for a moment.

<comment><USER5> I believe when you upload your code it will throw an error that your source and destination bucket are the same, which will prevent this type of looping.

<comment><USER6> This is not the case. I've written a Lambda which quite purposefully writes to a different path in the source bucket.

I have a Lambda for processing large files; the first phase is a single Lambda splitting the file into chunks which can be processed within the 60 second limit, and then the second phase is a bunch of the same Lambdas processing those chunks.

(Disclosure: I work with nicksergeant at Localytics.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I wish Lambda could listen to arbitrary TCP ports and respond e.g. to HTTP requests or MQTT messages. In the current form it seems pretty limited for any scenarios where generic clients initiate the requests, such as collecting device data and metrics. As I understand, currently the clients have to speak AWS-specific protocols to submit events / data.

<comment><USER8> The impression I get is that it is not really realtime, I am guessing all requests get queued and then scheduled on to a suitable host soon, but perhaps not within the time to respond to a TCP request.

(Although custom events [http://docs.aws.amazon.com/lambda/latest/dg/walkthrough- cust...](http://docs.aws.amazon.com/lambda/latest/dg/walkthrough-custom- events-invoke.html) suggest its pretty close to real time; should measure the latency).

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I really wish AWS would open up Lambda to more events than just S3 uploads and SQS / Dynamo queues. There are so many workloads I could move to Lambda if I could just invoke it via an API call.

<comment><USER10> You mean this? [http://docs.aws.amazon.com/lambda/latest/dg/walkthrough- cust...](http://docs.aws.amazon.com/lambda/latest/dg/walkthrough-custom- events-invoke.html)</comment></comment>


Samuel L. Ipsum - <AUTHOR> http://slipsum.com

<comment><USER2> Reminds me of Gangsta Ipsum: <http://www.lorizzle.nl>

Sample:

 _Yippiyo ipsizzle dolizzle fo shizzle amizzle, break it down ghetto get down get down. Nullizzle daahng dawg velizzle, aliquet volutpizzle, suscipizzle bow wow wow, izzle vel, get down get down. Pellentesque eget tortor. Sed eros. Phat izzle dolizzle check it out turpis tempizzle gangster. Maurizzle pellentesque crazy et turpizzle. Break it down own yo' tortor. Fizzle eleifend fo shizzle my nizzle break it down. In sheezy ghetto platea dictumst. Fo shizzle dapibizzle. Owned get down get down fo, pretizzle eu, mattizzle shizzlin dizzle, eleifend vitae, nunc. Izzle suscipizzle. Integer sempizzle velit for sure fo shizzle._

<comment><USER3> Or hipster ipsum: <http://hipsteripsum.me/>

_Banh mi cillum shoreditch in. Assumenda pitchfork scenester chambray, cliche commodo mollit etsy. Readymade enim VHS single-origin coffee, brunch brooklyn cupidatat put a bird on it. Voluptate enim officia dreamcatcher 3 wolf moon sunt. Irure beard fanny pack, excepteur sapiente minim terry richardson bicycle rights PBR stumptown mcsweeney's reprehenderit. Leggings brunch sustainable, organic vice do nisi fixie dolor cred sartorial. You probably haven't heard of them mcsweeney's tofu laboris keffiyeh vegan fap, four loko tumblr +1 wolf ullamco._

<comment><USER4> Or the Bogan Ipsum: <http://www.boganipsum.com/> (Which is randomly generated)

Stands out like a show pony bloody come a ratbag. Get a dog up ya yakka mate flat out like a amber fluid. Built like a metho mate as cross as a skite. Mad as a hit the turps piece of piss as stands out like down under. Lets throw a rage on with shazza got us some mates. Gutful of longneck mate we're going lizard drinking. He hasn't got a metho heaps mad as a barbie. She'll be right shag on a rock where he hasn't got a freckle. Shazza got us some bounce bloody mad as a spag bol. Shazza got us some fremantle doctor also shazza got us some doovalacky. Lets throw a bottlo he's got a massive smoko.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I was expecting copy like "lorem fucking ipsum" but this is even better.

I like it for the cheeky service it is, my only concern is that with Ipsum you can tell its fake copy at a glimpse. If you start using dialog it may be easy to over look it and have it make it to a live version. Still, cool service none the less.

<comment><USER6> I agree. Also, keep in mind that the other point of the Lorem Ipsum is that it is nonsense. It is more or less gibberish even if you can read Latin, so when you look at it, you see the text for how it looks, not for its content. With something like this, you are more likely to actually read the text, and thus not notice the spacing, positioning, etc.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Creating a Lorum Ipsum generator seems to be on of those projects a lot of people try at one point or another. I recently created Guttenberg Ipsum <http://guttenberg.templaedhel.com/> which pulls sentences from Project Guttenberg books for random content. Currently have some small kinks in the parsing, but in general it works fairly well.

</comment><comment><USER8> Font rendering looks a bit off. The Buttons are somewhat hard to read. (I'm on Ubuntu - Chrome dev. & Firefox)

<comment><USER9> Looks off on OS X FF6 as well.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> I don't care what the service is, or the actual contents of the page, but the content it generates would be really bad to use in any placeholder text that could potentially be shared to a customer or other department within your organization; for example:

        Look, just because I don't be givin' no man a foot massage don't make it right for Marsellus to throw Antwone into a glass motherfuckin' house, fuckin' up the way the nigger talks. Motherfucker do that shit to me, he better paralyze my ass, 'cause I'll kill the motherfucker, know what I'm sayin'?

</comment><comment><USER11> I was hoping that it generated SLJ-esque text at random (Markov chain!), but it looks like it just chooses from a set of 10 paragraphs :( .

</comment><comment><USER12> This reminds me of Fillerama: <http://chrisvalleskey.com/fillerama/>

(filler text from a couple different shows/movies)

</comment><comment><USER13> This may be one of the greatest things I've ever seen. It's both productive and hilarious. That being said I would be horrified to either send or receive anything with this in it.

</comment><comment><USER14> Great job collecting paragraph-length quotes from the movie! I love it.

</comment><comment><USER15> This is motherfucking awesome!</comment>


Make with Ada competition winners announced - <AUTHOR> http://makewithada.org/ <comment><USER2> It's not immediately clear to me if there is source code published for these projects. EtherScope looks to have source code available. To me, having source code for the projects would be effective for promoting the language.

<comment><USER3> It isn't clear to me either. The rules make it sound like it's judged based on being "open", "collaborative", "dependable", and "inventive".

Projects get 0-5 points for each of the 4 criteria. I guess you could be a top project without being completely open source..

Edit: It also seems as if EtherScope is an old project with a commercial product. I think.. I can't even tell.

<comment><USER4> [https://github.com/stcarrez/etherscope](https://github.com/stcarrez/etherscope)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I would have expected these to be links to the projects?</comment>


The Risky Eclipse of Statisticians - <AUTHOR> http://blog.hackerrank.com/the-risky-eclipse-of-statisticians/ <comment><USER2> In my experience, Data Science isn't replacing statistics, it's replacing Business Intelligence. And a lot of that is driven by PR and marketing departments that saw that business intelligence was boring and trapped them in the IT department, so they needed new buzz words. You can see the relationship on Google Trends as well, and it's stronger than comparing it to 'statistician', which looks flat more than declining:

[https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=data%20science%2C%20...](https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=data%20science%2C%20business%20intelligence&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT%2B4)

<comment><USER3> This is spot on. It's another name for BI, which was another name for reporting, albeit with fancier tools. But fundamentally the job is about querying, aggregating and representing data -- the methods by which these are done may be more complex, but the goals of the data are the same. It's just that with so much more data available, there need to be a lot more people to build the reporting systems.

But yeah, you're right, nobody wants to do reporting because it's tedious and doesn't pay particularly well. And really, most suits are just looking for data that fits the story they want to tell, so the quality of the analysis that many "data scientists" do is irrelevant. This isn't the case at every company, but I've seen it happen enough to know it's not a rare occurrence.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Initially I was in the camp of reluctant to associate myself with "data science" because it might be just a passing fad. It still might be, but for now I have started using that label.

I started in industry as "an applied or pragmatic statistician" that is someone trained in social science research with a strong quantitative methodology bias. As I went along I added focus group moderation, in-depth interviewing, competitive analysis, ROI analysis and strategy consulting... so I stared calling what I do "Research-based Consulting."

But that label doesn't seem to quite capture building taxonomies and text indexing systems or doing latent semantic analysis. Nor does that "Research- based Consulting" capture teaching myself web development in order to create data-focused web applications. And, what about all the database work that I do in operational systems? Or, how do I fit in things like managing and validating data collection and aggregation systems that track prices for ~10K sku's across multiple retail websites, combine them in a weighted algorithm that reflects my client's business priorities and drives thousands of automated transactions every day?

So even though I came from a background with a lot of grad level statistical training and even at one point somewhat identified as a statistician it feels like current definitions of "data scientist" captures more of what I actually do. So I have come to be at peace with the term.

I totally agree with the points in the article about a mult-disciplinary team. I would love to recruit people who are better than me at each sub-discipline and figure out how to help them work together.

<comment><USER2> A large number of my clients have been research companies and consulting firms, and one thing I've seen is that 'research based consulting' is a phrase that research companies frequently use to sell themselves as more than researchers, but that is completely unimportant to clients. On the client side, it's assumed that most consultants will use research in some form or another.

<comment><USER4> It seems that there is a class of consultants that are essentially gurus. Their advice doesn't come out of fresh primary research on the client situation and current market dynamics. Instead they speak from ongoing expertise and keeping their finger on the pulse of a particular market. I know that I used "Research-based Consulting" phrase sometimes to set apart my methodology - that is the client is paying for fresh research customized to their unique situation with a consultative type interpretation and advice to tie it all together at the end. But as I was saying even that phrase doesn't really capture stuff like text analysis, web scraping, web development and operations analysis - some of these are very much development and systems oriented.

Data science isn't a perfect label but it seems to be currently defined in a way that fits pretty well with the mix of things that I do - so I am willing to use it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> The joke that I think I saw here first:

A data scientist is a statistician who lives in San Francisco.

<comment><USER6> "I heard a couple of definitions: a data scientist is 1) a data analyst in California or 2) a statistician under 35."

[http://blogs.gartner.com/svetlana-sicular/data-scientist- mys...](http://blogs.gartner.com/svetlana-sicular/data-scientist-mystified/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> It's just a name. "Data science" still requires statistics and anyone who calls themselves a data scientist were (hopefully) trained in statistics at one point or another, whether formally or not. For those who don't use statistics properly, well, they aren't doing data science properly either. It's all statistics.

<comment><USER8> I think the name means something, data science to me means you're more focused on the tools and less on the theory. And that a VERY dangerous attitude to take in statistics. It's really, really easy to apply tools and get a model that looks quantitative and explanatory and good but is actually trash. It's really hard to tell the difference between good work and bad work. Statistics is very, very complicated and finicky in theory and practice and I think we'll need a better way to tell the charlatans from the experts. Maybe the title will work as a general rule of thumb as people self-select -- data scientist = knows how to load a data set into R and type 'lm', statistician = actual expert

<comment><USER7> People who attempt data science without validating the statistics should eventually end up with a pretty bad track record and leave the "data scientist" job market. My perception of what data scientist currently means is a statistician who knows how to program machine learning algorithms and manage large data sets. Based on what you are saying, there are a lot of impostors out there, which is most likely true. However, every time I see a job posting for a data scientist, it almost always requires some formal math or statistics background.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Rob Tibshirani at Stanford had a funny slide about the this phenomenon when all the ML researchers started getting more grant funding than statisticians:

[http://statweb.stanford.edu/~tibs/stat315a/glossary.pdf](http://statweb.stanford.edu/~tibs/stat315a/glossary.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER10> What does the job title actually matter where the t-test hits the SQL query? Nobody is morally opposed to well-educated professionals who can actually code to save their lives.

</comment><comment><USER11> The guy quoted as saying "massive datasets ... has not yet become part of mainstream statistical science" has been teaching a statistical computing class[1] for PhD's for about 10 years now.

It's worth reading the president of the American Statistical Association's take[2] on the stats - data science divide as well.

[1]: [http://stat.wharton.upenn.edu/~buja/STAT-541/](http://stat.wharton.upenn.edu/~buja/STAT-541/) [2]: [http://magazine.amstat.org/blog/2013/07/01/datascience/](http://magazine.amstat.org/blog/2013/07/01/datascience/)

</comment><comment><USER12> \>___> I'm going for a master of statistic and thought the premise in the beginning was weak at best.

And then toward the middle of it, it basically said data science is a marriage between stat and comp sci.

Congrats I have comp sci as an undergraduate.

I think it's weak at best. Data science is a jack of all trade and master of none.

I disagree that it's just cs and stats, I know it might be pedantic but it also ML which involve math that is a bit more than stats. Math it's either right or wrong. Stats you can kinda bend that in such that it's close enough.

Some may say what's the difference. This article doesn't address the difference but from what I've gathered Neural Network will tell you or categorize stuff likewise with KNN, but you won't gain insight into the WHY it is categorized that way and this is where statistic can tell you why. From lurking in the subreddit /r/statistic, Bayesian will tell you why but NN will not.

You still need statistic. It's just that this is a new field and many people don't have the depth to grasp what's important.

It's like hyping up a nosql database and promising many things and get people to adopt it. Eventually they'll realized that it's just broken promises and they're stuck with it. In this case, the industry can just get smarter and have better idea of what they really need.

<comment><USER13> I was hoping your comment would address GIGO

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> > Why Didn't Statisticians Own Big Data?

Because they could not translate their sense of entitlement to actual results.

> pure statisticians often scoff at the hype surrounding the rise of data > scientists in the industry

> some statisticians simply have no interest in carrying out scientific > methods for business-oriented data science

Statisticians are often too careful. They let tests decide if they should continue on a certain path. Machine learning researchers run blindfolded and trust cross-validation. The latter, though reckless, gets more impressive results.

You can perfectly be a data scientist coming from a statistics or physics background. Adapt to it and use your knowledge to your advantage. You can't keep calling yourself a statistician and own data science at the same time. Start automating yourselves, like the rest of us are.

</comment><comment><USER15> Reminds me of this talk at SciPy 2015: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGGGDpb04Yc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGGGDpb04Yc)

<comment><USER6> Really interesting video. Thanks for sharing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> There's a mistake in the infographic-like table named "Big Data Quantified".

It says "72 hours of new video uploaded to YouTube every _day_ ".

Actually, "300 hours of video are uploaded to YouTube every _minute_ ".[1]

The source of the infographic got the "minute" part right. (And probably the matter of 72-->300 is growth since the original infographic was produced... Web citations are hard!)

      1. http://www.youtube.com/yt/press/statistics.html

<comment><USER17> >Actually, "300 hours of video are uploaded to YouTube every minute".[1]

That's simply an incredible amount of data. The storage for all that must be huge.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Data science needs statisticians. Big data and machine learning courses do not teach about such things as endogeneity, confounding variables, sampling bias etc. and how to deal with them. Data scientists that do not understand these things could end up making big mistakes: [https://youtu.be/0cizsKDn3TI](https://youtu.be/0cizsKDn3TI)</comment>


Ask HN: what is the best way to read HN via Twitter? - <AUTHOR>

Do not want to refresh HN homepage repeatedly and waste HN resources. <comment><USER2> I RSS the front page, and only when I want to "do HN" and nothing else do I spend time on the homepage.

</comment><comment><USER3> <http://twitter.com/hackernewsbot>

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks!

It works. The problem with this bot is that it shows the original URL submitted, but not the HN URL, which includes the interesting and valuable comments.

<comment><USER3> <http://twitter.com/hntweets>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> There's also <http://twitter.com/newsyc20> and <http://twitter.com/hackerlinks>

</comment><comment><USER5> Why do you need to refresh the homepage constantly?</comment>


Ask HN: Should Microsoft Buy TikTok and Make Kevin Systrom CEO? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> No. TikTok is social media and the only real business of social media is data harvesting and advertising. Social media is slowly but continuously becoming more of a toxic business due to revenue growth pressues, potentially increased regulation, and increased political sensitivity.

Financially the only way this makes any sense for Microsoft's business is to directly integrate TikTok data collection into Microsoft's existing media products like MSN, Bing, and related third party advertising.</comment>


Ask HN: How to quit a side job that became too much work? - <AUTHOR>

I've spent the past two years as a solo sub-contract developer building a custom ERP system. It's become too much work for me to do on my own and side work no longer fits into my work/life balance (now with 2 kids in 2 years).
The project started off with minimal requirements and sounded like a 3-4 month project. I've been working on it around my day job, around 10 hours per week. It seems to be in and endless "beta test" cycle and constantly changing requirements without before even going live. Eventually it's going to be a live system with over a hundred people using it for their daily operations. I was not aware of this at the time. I have no interest in maintaining it and need to find a way to get out.
I am working without a contract. I submit my invoices to another contractor who then submits his time and presumably my time with any applicable markup. I bill by the hour for tasks. I don't have a direct relationship with the end client. I've been doing side projects for the main contractor for the past 4 years. I have never signed anything other than an NDA about 4 years ago.
I mentioned to the main contractor that I don't want to do this long term and he doesn't seem to be in any hurry to replace me.
How can I step away from this work without completely leaving them in the lurch? Do I have any liability to complete the partially finished work which likely has bugs in it?  I've intentionally operated as much as possible as a straight coder without wanting to take on any additional responsibility since it was side work. <comment><USER2> You have no contract binding you to any terms, so I don't see what liability you have to complete the work. With no contract it sounds like you have no obligation to give any notice, but if I were in your shoes, I'd give 30 days courtesy notice, after which point you will no longer take on that work.

I can understand why they don't seem to be in a hurry to replace you -- "I don't want to do this long term" doesn't convey the same sense of urgency as "I am going to stop doing this after $date, so find someone else."

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you. Good advice. I was worried that there may be some unwritten liability. For example, how likely will I get sued if something breaks. If I was still actively involved then I am sure I would be able to just fix it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> "How can I step away from this work without completely leaving them in the lurch?"

A. Announce a date in advance that you'll be leaving. That will make the contractor serious about finding a replacement. Let the contractor know that if they can find a replacement before you will help get the next coder up to speed.

If you're nice you can make that exit date a reasonable amount of time to find and train a replacement.

Also there's nothing wrong with actually saying that you didn't expect a 4 month project to turn into 4 years.

<comment><AUTHOR> I was originally going to tie my exit date to some period after it went live. That has been delayed far too long. You are right, I need to just put a firm date out</comment></comment>


Repl.it Multiplayer - <AUTHOR> https://repl.it/site/blog/multi <comment><USER2> Really cool, Repl.it is the best online bite-sized programming platform I've ever used. The breadth of languages offered is surprising (Brainfuck and Scheme?!), and things I would have thought wouldn't be supported were supported.

I say this in spite of an excruciating experience I had a few weeks ago where I led a Python for absolute beginners day-long workshop. I had tried Repl.it before writing the course materials and was mind-blown at how everything just worked, including the filesystem, which I needed for downloading NLTK modules. I decided to design the materials around Repl.it, letting me spare the class the possibly excruciating and definitely not fun experience of downloading and configuring Python and an IDE. Unfortunately, on the day of the workshop, Repl.it just didn't work for half the class, and for most of the rest, it was really, really slow. Hopefully this was just a hiccup.

<comment><USER3> "letting me spare the class the possibly excruciating and definitely not fun experience of downloading and configuring Python and an IDE"

Aren't you afraid that class participants will have a hard time configuring later Python and IDE by themselves? Wouldn't be beneficial for them to spend some time setting up their own environment during the class?

BTW I am curious in what way installing Anaconda and starting Jupyther notebook is "excruciating". Last time I did that it went kind of smooth, but maybe there are some gotchas I've missed (it was MS Windows machine, I had a admin privileges, etc.)?

<comment><USER4> For absolute beginners, I'd even prefer something like this:

1\. Hit install on Python and accept the defaults.

2\. Install a simple text editor with syntax highlighting.

3\. Open a file right on your desktop and type two commands in it and press F5 or something to run it.

Anaconda and Jupyter are great tools, but even they add complexity you don't need when teaching absolute beginners how accessible this can be.

Here's Python. It's installed. Tell the computer what you want to do inside a file. You understand text files and how to store them where you want, use your own conventions for that. Shove it in documents or whatever. We'll learn about project management and version control later, when you're writing programs more than 20 lines long.

<comment><USER2> Yes, that might be what I would do if I did the workshop again. I still like Repl.it because I think the distinction between the REPL and the file/editor is much easier to grasp there than with IDLE and IDLE's REPL, but running code locally is necessarily going to be more reliable than running code on a remote platform.

<comment><USER4> Repl.it is a pretty neat solution too, don't get me wrong.

And IDLE has always left me unimpressed relative to the terminal... but using Unicode on Windows, suddenly code pages get involved, which no one should ever have to know. There is a long series of subtle, unpleasant tradeoffs.

Writing short Python scripts when I traveled with a Chromebook was messy, I leaned on repl.it as one option... It was super easy to dive in.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I wonder what technology Repl.it is using for the multiplayer. VS code has a live coding plugin, is this what is used?

Disclosure: I'm the CEO of GitLab and we're looking at live coding ourselves as well.

<comment><USER6> It looks like Repl.it is in this thread, they might provide an exact answer.

But, if they don't, here's my take. To me it seems like this is something that would be built in-house with the ability to leverage repl.it's existing application infrastructure. I'd imagine this would simplify the development compared to the vscode plugin. (stand-alone desktop app)

Also, long-time gitlab-CE user here. I'd love to see multiplayer as a feature.

<comment><USER7> What would multiplayer look like in a gitlab like app?

<comment><USER6> I imagine I could edit a file in a web-based editor and my collaborators would be able to see those edits in real time. Maybe it wouldn't be a full-fledged IDE, but I could imagine building development workflows into gitlab's CI/CD pipeline to facilitate semi-rapid pair-programming/prototyping.

<comment><USER8> I can readily see how that would pan out in GitLab's Web IDE[0].

[https://about.gitlab.com/2018/04/22/gitlab-10-7-released/#we...](https://about.gitlab.com/2018/04/22/gitlab-10-7-released/#web- ide-is-now-open-source)

<comment><USER5> Yes, this is about live coding in the web IDE and I listed some technologies to look at in [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab- ce/issues/51116#note_12...](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab- ce/issues/51116#note_123299057)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> This is really cool.

Bit of an aside: I used to take notes and share code using SubEthaEdit which pioneered this sort of collaborative editing over a decade ago. While it's now pretty normal to see students taking collaborative notes in classes using Google Docs (and etherpad before it was acquired by Google to improve the experience in Docs), it was astonishing a decade ago. I recall spontaneously loading it up at an early Rails conference and taking notes with a bunch of strangers (it advertises open docs over the LAN). It was a noteworthy enough experience that one of the collaborators blogged about it. [1]

It was heartening to learn that SubEthaEdit was made free and open-sourced a week ago. [2]

[1] Alas, the coloured formatting didn't survive the blogrot [http://www.zenspider.com/ruby/2006/04/canadaonrails- day-1-sh...](http://www.zenspider.com/ruby/2006/04/canadaonrails-day-1-shared- notes.html)

[2] [https://subethaedit.net](https://subethaedit.net)

<comment><USER10> There is also gobby and infinote that have been around for as long, if not longer. I've used them to great effect to pair removing when teaching simple softEng concepts.

<comment><USER10> *remoting

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Way to go, repl.it team!

Hard to believe 7 months have already gone by since I was working with you on this prototype! I took a peek at some of the websocket messages, and I'm glad to see its come a long way since I last saw it :-D

This launch seems to perfectly cover the vision of collaborative coding that the repl.it community has been clamoring for!

<comment><USER12> Hey Eric! I won't forget our brainstorming session. Multiplayer covers the needs of repl cast, and man oh man we went through so many iterations!

I hope you like it and I hope it's helpful to you and to the people you teach. Let us know if you have feedback or ideas, I would love to hear them.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> > The fact that everyone shares the same compute infrastructure means they all > see the same errors and the same output — this is crucial for collaboration > and something that we've found to be lacking from existing IDE's that > support "collaboration".

What does this do that VS Live Share [1] in VS Code doesn't? Seems like port sharing + tty sharing has this covered.

1\. [https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/services/live- share/](https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/services/live-share/)

<comment><USER14> Works in a browser and has the environment set up to run the thing you're making.

If you go the vs coderoute everyone needs to set up there system to match. Using node? Which version of node? Or which version of python.

And everyone sees the output of the program when anyone clicks play.

<comment><USER13> That's not true. The only setup required is installing vscode and the live share extension.

The host shares their TTY and ports, all the clients see everything that happens in the host's TTY (read-only) and ports (r/w on localhost.) Code editing syncs in real-time to the host machine P2P.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Awesome! A few times I've had to code together with my girlfriend and went for repl.it as a reflex, checked if it supported this feature or not because it seemed like it could! (Great (free??) product!) We would then use cloud9, but now it seems like that won't be necessary!!

<comment><USER16> Just as early as a year ago there was almost no good solution, but that's been changing very quickly.

I really like Colab[0] by Google for a web based one, and if you have VSCode installed, their Live Share extension is pretty solid [1]

[0] [https://colab.research.google.com](https://colab.research.google.com)

[1] [https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=MS- vsliv...](https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=MS- vsliveshare.vsliveshare)

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> This is really cool! I oftentimes use repl.it to explain a concept or something to friends learning programming, this will be really helpful!

Since people are recommending other multiplayer-stuff I'll recommend Live Share for VS Code [0]. It is so useful that I've shifted to VS Code (with my teammates) for some projects just for the live sharing. I've tried Floobits (to be able too keep my regular editor), but that seems much more elaborate with persistent "projects" which is not really a fit for my more casual use case.

[0]: [https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/services/live- share/](https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/services/live-share/)

</comment><comment><USER18> Cool to see these pair programming products coming out recently. Party Reply is very cool as well.

<comment><USER19> What's Party Reply? Is that another tool of Repl.it in autocorrect? Googled but didn't find much

<comment><USER20> I think it's a reference to multi-player clojure REPL in Atom. I haven't looked too deeply but from what I can gather it uses Atom Teletype for the editing and they figured out how to connect to the same Clojure REPL server.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18574284](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18574284)

It's pretty cool and it addresses a need that we've found missing as well -- live code editing is half the feature, what's also important, is that the REPL state be synced. It's a coincidence that we both picked the same name!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> This is really cool. I dreamed of something like this back when I first started coding in college, but there wasn't really anything available that could do the job.

<comment><USER22> Well, you could always have multiple people connected to the same desktop with VNC. If you prefer terminals, tmux and screen support multiple simultaneous clients.

Obviously not quite as good for many reasons, but possible.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> I just signed up because I wanted to be able to clone a git repo into a repl and pair program as needed. There doesn't appear to be an easy way to do this, I figured it would be the obvious feature especially with the GitHub login option.

Apparently it is do-able with a little effort, but man I'd love for this to be a standard feature. "Hey Jim, I just pushed to the funky-broken branch, can you take a look and help me solve it?"

[https://tra38.github.io/blog/deploying-github-repos-onto- rep...](https://tra38.github.io/blog/deploying-github-repos-onto-repl-it.html)

<comment><USER20> GitHub clone coming real soon. And a full-on GitHub integration will follow :)

<comment><USER23> Awesome, I can't wait!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Been using repl.it for so many years, glad to see it's finally getting the attention (and new features) it deserves!

<comment><USER12> Thank you for your support and kind words. We value our users and early adopters. I would love to learn more about how you've been using Repl.it and why? Please feel free to email me at email@example.com

<comment><USER24> Mostly just running code on the fly, most times to show small snippets of code to people over the shoulder. Nothing glorious

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> This is super-cool tool for performing tech interviews. I've used a coderpad.io in the past (as interviewer) but they have way too high prices for the amount of interviews I've performed.

So when I've run out of free pads I've switched to repl.it + screen sharing, but it's not the same as simultaneous editing.

Really happy with it.

<comment><USER20> Awesome! Thanks for the feedback. We've been using it for interviews for more than a month and we've been really happy with it.

It's worth noting that excellent folks at Coderpad have a lot of features that complements the editor too -- I've used it while at Facebook -- so we're not trying to compete with that.

<comment><USER25> i can confirm that we are excellent

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Here are some online programming sites similar to repl.it (not for the multiplayer part though) that I had come across, blogged about, and mentioned on HN some weeks ago:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18277513](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18277513)

</comment><comment><USER27> This is really cool! I've always dreamed of something like Google Docs for programmers.

<comment><USER28> I remember a few years ago I shared a Google spreadsheet among a few coworkers so we could all see and edit the same thing.

The amazing utility of being able to see the location of everyone's active cell, and seeing each person as a different colour, was just wonderful. Combined with a voice channel and it was more useful than a face to face meeting in a conference room.

This inspires me to try to get the editor sharing running for my tiny DevOps team.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> Very cool. This looks almost perfect for having a shared environment for teaching my nephews how to make browser games. Only issue is it appears the multiplayer sessions are not persistent? ie what I really need is a shared project where different participants can log in and hack on it as they have time, but also pair if someone runs into a problem and needs realtime help fixing it. I think cloud9 works this way. @amasad Any chance of repl.it supporting this case in the future (or maybe it alread y does and I'm missing it)? This is something I would gladly pay a subscription for.

</comment><comment><USER30> It's funny that I had just used it in class 2 days ago. It's such a great way to communicate and work on a project without actively disrupting a lecture that is actually unrelated to the code we were writing.

<comment><USER12> How did you hear about Repl.it? how did you end up there?

<comment><USER30> I was giving a talk about Python at a club in school and I wouldn't be able to have everyone install an IDE or Python on their computers at the moment. So in the planning phase a fellow club member suggested Repl.it, so that they could run and test the commands we showed. This was a few months ago and it didn't have the multiplayer feature then. I found myself using it recently because I wanted to help a friend with a program idea that was unrelated to the class we were in, I remembered Repl.it and it turned out to have 'multiplayer' in beta, making it easier to talk in class without repeatedly chatting though inline comments.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Very cool to see this launch! I beta tested Multiplayer a few short weeks ago, and it looks like it's improved quite a bit since then

<comment><USER12> Thanks for your support. Yes, we like to test and improve our features, and we try our best to listen to our user's needs. Please keep us posted with your feedback and if you have thoughts or ideas to improve Multiplayer.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> I wish there was a service which allowed collaborative code editing without registration/an account. Some years ago I used Gobby/Sobby [0] for such use- cases but using a website would make the whole thing much easier than having to install some software first.

[0]: [https://gobby.github.io/](https://gobby.github.io/)

<comment><USER32> I just created a repl.it account and tried the multiplayer feature. In fact, not every participant requires an account, just the host. So not as bad I as I expected and kinda reasonable. I am confident I will try that feature with some friends in the future.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> This is so good! Since codeshare turns too unstable and cloud9 it's a little cumbersome to use, having this alternative is amazing.

<comment><USER12> Absolutely, making it easy to share and use is a core part of our mission. We would love to see you around Repl.it and let us know if you have any feedback.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> What is the text editor behind repl.it? Is it custom made or does it use any open source browser editor? It's really good.

</comment><comment><USER35> I got inconsistent state that never resolved: [https://user- images.githubusercontent.com/772305/49634210-52...](https://user- images.githubusercontent.com/772305/49634210-52bd1b80-f9fc-11e8-813c-1f3b362456e5.PNG)

This was on the first try. :-(

<comment><USER20> That's weird. We'll debug, but I think it might be that the right-hand side isn't logged in. Try logging in with a different user.

<comment><USER35> Thanks. It happened more than once in that session.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> I am excited about all those bugs everyone will add in real time. This is going to be fun.

</comment><comment><USER37> I wonder whether there's ever been much momentum within google to add programming language modes to google docs. It must have been suggested plenty of times internally. I mean, I hope not, for the sake of smaller companies like repl.it.

<comment><USER12> We're really good friends with Google and they already use Repl.it. Thanks for your kind words.

<comment><USER37> Thus spake the lamb to the wolf.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> I've been using Repl.it's Multiplayer to teach people Python, I recommend it!

<comment><USER12> Nice! We value the word of mouth so much! if you have feedback for us or feature suggestions please let us know, we'd love to hear from you.

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> Heh, I don't know how this keeps happening, but I literally just had this idea today. I almost sent it to a friend who's looking for project ideas, but I'm super glad repl.it is building it. This looks great.

<comment><USER40> Same here! I love seeing ideas I've had independently being built by others (although this idea is pretty obvious; hence, it being built by multiple parties). It's validating. I'm working on evolving from just ideating all the time to actually building rapid prototypes. Dreaming up ideas is really fun, but so is manifesting them (with the exception of tedious minutiae, but that's where most of the work occurs).

<comment><USER20> We're also hiring if you want to come work on it (and we're a pretty small team -- 6 people -- so it's sorta in the founding stage) [https://repl.it/jobs](https://repl.it/jobs)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> This is cool. By the way I just tried it and ran a simple infinite loop (in Python) and the whole page goes unresponsive and I don't seem to have a way to terminate the process?

<comment><USER20> So it's not the loop -- it's the printing of a lot of data really fast. Here's an infinite loop with a small sleep with no issue in it: [https://repl.it/@amasad/forever](https://repl.it/@amasad/forever)

It's funny, it's both a regression and an improvement. We started using XTerm.js with a PTY[1] and we stopped throttling output[2] which reintroduces the "browser locking up from too much output" bug. We'll need to introduce backpressure.

[1]: [https://repl.it/site/blog/stderr](https://repl.it/site/blog/stderr)

[2]: [https://repl.it/site/blog/infinite- loops](https://repl.it/site/blog/infinite-loops)

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> I wanted to build something like this for a long time, but I never figured out the best tech & architecture to make it. I'm looking forward for a technical post :)

</comment><comment><USER43> I like Repl.it, but recently some of my files got mixed/lost. Be sure to backup. Would be cool if files were automatically mirrored to git.

</comment><comment><USER44> This seems like it might be useful for hackathons, especially when working with team members who aren't well-versed in git or virtualenv.

<comment><USER12> Absolutely, it can be useful for online hackathons and irl hackathons. Do you usually contribute to hackathons?

</comment></comment><comment><USER45> Congrats, Amjad. I enjoy seeing Repl.it continue to pop up on HN years later. Keep on keeping on.

</comment><comment><USER46> How is this implemented?

<comment><USER47> Good question. I searched around, but could only find this about Repl.it being closed source -- [https://repl.it/feedback/p/open- source](https://repl.it/feedback/p/open-source)

<comment><USER20> That answer is a bit outdated because we open-sourced one of the core pieces of our infra: Prybar [https://github.com/replit/prybar](https://github.com/replit/prybar)

We'll be open-sourcing some more. As for how Multiplayer is implemented, we'll be doing a blogpost on it soon.

<comment><USER48> [https://github.com/replit/prybar/blob/master/languages/nodej...](https://github.com/replit/prybar/blob/master/languages/nodejs/repl.js#L4)

Sorry to be the license police, but I think that the attribution for embedding another project like that is a little unfair to the original authors, especially since this project is the more restrictive GPL 2.0.

[https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/2183...](https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/218331/what- are-the-requirements-for-attribution-in-the-mit-license)

"The fourth paragraph says that the copyright notice in the second paragraph must be reproduced. Users of the license [sic] substitute the [fullname] with their actual name. That is what constitutes "proper attribution" in the mind of the MIT: every user of the software can find out who wrote it if they want to."

<comment><USER20> Thanks -- I'll make sure to let the team know to fix it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER49> Super cool. Really wish Dart is supported on Repl.it

<comment><USER20> If you add it to Prybar[1] that's half the battle. We're also working on open- sourcing more parts of the system to make it easier to contribute languages etc.

[1]: [https://github.com/replit/prybar](https://github.com/replit/prybar)

</comment></comment><comment><USER50> Best app for private lessons ever!

</comment><comment><USER51> Can my team run Godot on this ?

<comment><USER20> What's Godot? Is it an ML thing?

<comment><USER51> Godot is a FOSS IDE for making games

[https://godotengine.org/](https://godotengine.org/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER52> coder.com is a similar tool.

</comment><comment><USER53> what server architecture was used for the real time collaboration ?

</comment><comment><USER54> Fuck yeah

</comment><comment> black-tea Cool. Something that has been possible with GNU screen for decades.

<comment><USER28> Yes, but the usability was pretty poor as it had very specific requirements that far-flung people would have trouble meeting.

Needing SSH access, valid user accounts, and various permissions meant it was always viewed as a hassle rather than benefit.

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> Cool. Most likely it will only be used for technical interviews.

<comment><USER20> How so? There are a bunch of anecdotes in the post beyond interviews and if you go to our feedback boards you'll see that people are using it in schools and all sorts of different scenarios.</comment></comment>


SF JavaScript Meetup - lots of hackers, YC people, JS experts - <AUTHOR>

Hey all,
We're getting together a JavaScript meetup in downtown San Francisco at 7PM on April 16th. Specific location TBA but it will be somewhere in or near SOMA. We've got a number of YC companies represented, other startups, lots of awesome front-end hackers, and some huge names in the JS community.
It will be a lot of fun and you won't want to miss it so register and RSVP here:
http://javascript.meetup.com/4/
We'll have food, drink, a few awesome speakers, and lots of great networking and hacking.
See you then! <comment><USER2> Great idea, I'm so there.

Douglas Crockford is coming.. didn't he invent JSON?

<comment><USER3> Yup: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Crockford>

Which YC companies have been doing cool JS stuff? Any of them going?

<comment><USER4> Heh, I remember playing Day of the Tentacle a long time ago.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Great idea. I'd like to see what new stuff people have been doing with js. I built <http://ninjawords.com> and <http://jjot.com> about a year ago.

I feel like 200 would be too many. with 40, you can meet most everyone there and remember faces.

</comment><comment><USER6> What perfect timing. We just solved some graphing problems with JS in our webapp, and the results so far have been great :) We'll be there.

</comment><comment><USER7> When does it end? If I went, I would fly over from Chicago for the afternoon/evening, so I have to know.

</comment><comment><USER8> I recommend putting events on Upcoming and Facebook Events, too, if you want big attendance.

<comment><USER9> I actually hope they don't. Having a small, core YC crowd there would be much nicer than seeing all the Web 2.0 party hoppers you normally see at events on Upcoming.

<comment><USER8> Cozy for insiders can be good too!

In which case, I suggest posting a fake _decoy_ event on Upcoming to draw away all "the Web 2.0 party hoppers". Put it at 111 Minna.</comment></comment></comment>


A Brief History of Online Terra Mystica - <AUTHOR> https://www.snellman.net/blog/archive/2014-11-27-history-of-online-terra-mystica/ <comment><USER2> Can anybody explain the trademark and IP issues with making an online version of a commercial board game? Actually I'd like to know how the author addressed that.

<comment><USER3> In this specific case, I have permission from the publisher to implement the game, as long as I put in the appropriate trademark notices and don't use the original graphics.

I got that permission in a bit of a roundabout way though. The system didn't start off as a full implementation of the game but just as a tool for making it a little bit easier to manually moderate a play-by-email/play-by-forum games, and the publisher was clearly implicitly ok with (in fact one of the first uses of the tool was for an exhibition match of sorts with one of the designers of the game). Once it became clear that this had slowly morphed into a full implementation of the game, I asked for formal permission and exactly where the limits were (e.g. on the graphics). So there was a bit more "asking for forgiveness rather than permission" involved than I'm really comfortable with. In general you should always ask up front.

This area is a bit of an interesting balancing act for the publishers of hobby board games. On one hand it's almost certain that a free online implementation gives the game a lot more longevity and thus drives long-term sales. It means the game continues to be played a lot more by the existing players, which means they continue discussing it. This in turn attracts new players to the game, and sells more physical copies. It also means that people are excited for any new expansions, since they've played the base game enough to want the variety.

On the other hand free online implementations do probably make it harder to license the game for a commercial digital implementation. For example tablet implementations of board games looked like a big deal a few years ago. But my feeling is that it didn't actually turn out to be a viable business in the long run. Making the tablet implementations is just too expensive and outside of a handful of games with massive pre-existing mass market appeal (talking of the Carcassonne / Ticket to Ride tier of games) the sales just aren't there.

<comment><USER4> Thanks for your efforts!

Terra Mystica is the current king of board games in our family. If there was a commercial, multiplayer iPad version, I'd buy it in an instant.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> As I read this, I can't help but think it might have taken a fraction of the time if implemented in Meteor.</comment>


A skill set everyone: computational thinking - <AUTHOR> http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~wing/publications/Wing06.pdf

<comment><AUTHOR> AKA learn to code; even if its Excel or DrScheme.</comment>


Im a finalist for Intel Innovators - "Invest in me" - <AUTHOR>

ok Hacker News I need your help.
The inaugural Intel Innovators program has just launched and our new startup is a finalist to win 100k.
here's the problem. It is basically a popularity contest to get in the top 5 from the 20 finalists. So I need your "investments"
The facebook app gives you "Social Capital" and asks you to invest in the idea of your choice.
Our idea is Medmonk, and we are changing healthcare for the better. We plan on driving down the cost of healthcare by piecing together existing sources of funding (Foundations, Manufacturer Coupons, Co-Pay Assistance programs and even insurance company funds) to drive down the cost of prescription medications.
Please go check out the Intel Innovators link and vote for Medmonk
http://apps.facebook.com/intelinnovators/pitch <comment><AUTHOR> clickable link

<http://apps.facebook.com/intelinnovators/pitch></comment>


The 2008 financial crisis completely changed what majors students choose - <AUTHOR> https://qz.com/1370922/the-2008-financial-crisis-completely-changed-what-majors-students-choose/ <comment><USER2> "humanities majors don't make much less than people who choose to study computer science and finance" Uh...that's not a true statement, computer science majors make substantially more than humanities majors: [https://sappingattention.blogspot.com/2018/08/some- prelimina...](https://sappingattention.blogspot.com/2018/08/some-preliminary- analysis-of-texas.html)</comment>


Amazon recalls eclipse glasses - <AUTHOR> http://www.kgw.com/news/eclipse/amazon-recalling-some-solar-eclipse-glasses-week-before-event/463899601 <comment><USER2> I ordered the top-rated eclipse glasses on Amazon a few months ago and they were counterfeit.

If you put them on during daytime you can see indirect sunlight and even my kitchen light. They were shipped from China despite having "Made in the USA" markings and all the proper ISO certification fine print.

I haven't received any communication from Amazon, so people who haven't heard from them should not assume their glasses are safe (contrary to Amazon's statement). I contacted Amazon support and they were quick to initiate a refund. For some reason Amazon rejected my review warning that items from third party sellers may be counterfeit and explaining how to tell.

Here are a couple photos of the counterfeits: [https://goo.gl/photos/1XRKw8KBgo3hjHx6A](https://goo.gl/photos/1XRKw8KBgo3hjHx6A)

<comment><USER3> I just checked my "Soluna" glasses - I can see a high watt bulb in a lamp, previously I couldn't see any lower watt bulb :/

<comment><USER4> I am not an expert, so take this with a grain of salt: but you cannot visually check whether it blocks ultra-violet or infrared. So, this visual inspection seems bogus to me, since you cannot be sure whether all wavelengths are blocked.

Be careful!

<comment><USER2> This is correct. Visual inspection can't verify glasses, but it can identify clearly fake ones. Being able to see a house light through these glasses is a bad sign IMO.

<comment><USER3> This has happened for 2 brands of glasses I've ordered, 1 from Amazon & 1 from manufacturer directly.

Guess I won't be looking at the sun :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Reading the comments here, I wonder if folks have read the article? The problem seems to be not that Amazon has recalled counterfeit items but rather they have recalled legitimate product, blaming the legitimate seller for the fact that Amazon can't keep straight where their safety-critical inventory came from. It is as if they have a bin for "Viagra" in the warehouse into which they put shipments from Pfizer, along with whatever comes in from their eBay-grade sellers. Then they blame Pfizer for the eBay drugs not being properly traceable and tested.

Source: I received the emails, read the article, and at least one of the products I received is certainly not counterfeit.

<comment><USER6> The article does not say Amazon commingled glasses from multiple sources.

Before I purchased eclipse glasses from Amazon, I first checked with NASA for approved brands, purchased an approved brand, and have not received a recall email from Amazon.

The fact is that we don't know what happened at Amazon, whether they commingled inventory or incorrectly included legitimate suppliers in the recall or if there were real issues with the products provided by the supplier in the article.

<comment><USER7> Short of an elaborate test apparatus, there is actually no way for a consumer to independently confirm they have safe glasses.

It's easy to make fakes that look _exactly_ like the real thing. So a printed ISO code or brand name is only sufficient if the supply chain is secure.

And unfortunately, there have been plenty of stories lately about seeming lax stock management at Amazon that makes it hard to know exactly what you're going to get.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> > "Customers may have purchased counterfeit versions of legitimate products," > an Amazon spokesperson said when asked about the issue.

Does this have to do with Amazon's practice of commingling goods from various sources together? I imagine in some warehouse, a big box of Panjwani's legit goods all mixed together with some not-so-good-goods.

<comment><USER9> I didn't know Amazon did this. It'll make me think twice next time I purchase certain items.

After a quick search I found this: [https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...](https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200243180)

 _Even though inventory tracked using the manufacturer barcode is commingled within the network, the source of the inventory is tracked by our fulfillment systems and is taken into consideration if inventory problems arise._

Given the article, it seems they're not completely sure what was sent where. It would seem that using the manufacturer barcodes in Amazon's network opens you up to an unexpected risk.

<comment><USER10> Never buy an Apple USB charger from Amazon, 90% of them are fake.

[https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/20/13343682/fake-apple- char...](https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/20/13343682/fake-apple-chargers- amazon-lawsuit)

<comment><USER11> Never buy _any_ Apple product from Amazon. I've been burned several times. Didn't realize it until I had already bought several products.

<comment><USER12> I've been pretty pleased with my MacBook air, for big ticket items like iPod/iPhone/Macbook do you think there's significant risk of counterfeit?

<comment><USER13> You're more likely to get a brick or clay than you are an actual counterfeit.

<comment><USER14> Funny you got donwoted the exact last time amazon inventory practices were under scrutiny here at hn there was plenty stories of people getting empty boxes and ipad cardboard cutouts

edit: dug out that discussion [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13924546](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13924546)

but there are plenty similar.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Interesting... the real issue here is Amazon's long-standing implicit tolerance of counterfeit goods from disreputable suppliers. I wonder how many more incidents like this it will take before Amazon finally does something.

<comment><USER16> They won't until consumers wise up. I've stopped using them completely, not worth the gamble.

Their price advantage has eroded anyways. I don't see any advantage to buying from them relative to straight from the manufacturer most of the time.

Amazon has done a great job squeezing shipping costs and margins. I doubt I pay more than 5% more on anything but I know I'm not getting any fakes

<comment><USER17> Amazon is de-facto a monopoly. The "invisible hand" does not apply here.

<comment><USER18> No, Amazon is not a monopoly, they are a very large and influential player. You can still buy eclipse glasses (and practically all other products) from other vendors, both physical and online. It may not be as smooth, cheap, fast or convenient as Amazon, but that's pretty damn far from the bar for a monopoly.

There was never any guarantee that the invisible hand would fix badness overnight, merely that it will nudge them in the right direction. Which it does.

<comment> y-satellite Not anymore, you can't. Just about every supplier on the Internet is sold out at this point.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> This isn't limited to glasses. I purchased a 12x12 sheet of solar filter film from a seller on Amazon, manufactured by Thousand Oaks Optical (who are listed on the American Astronomical Society's list of reputable vendors), and I'm also being refunded.

I checked the Thousand Oaks Optical site and they have a list of legitimate resellers of their products, and the Amazon seller I used is listed. I'm surprised Amazon didn't do the same basic checks before e-mailing me.

When I was searching for more information after receiving the e-mail, I also found someone on an astronomy forum[1] who is being refunded for a telescope that appears to retail for around $1199.

[1] [https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/587658-amazon-eclipse- gla...](https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/587658-amazon-eclipse-glasses- refund/)

<comment><USER20> > the Amazon seller I used is listed

If it was "fulfilled by Amazon", it doesn't matter what seller you chose, you could have been sent a counterfeit item from another seller.

Sellers using fulfillment-by-Amazon send their stock to Amazon's warehouse, where it gets thrown in the same bin as all the other stock of that item from everyone else selling it. When it gets pulled to ship to you, there's no guarantee you get one that came from the authorized seller, versus a counterfeit someone else sent in with the same SKU.

Sellers can opt-out of commingling inventory at extra cost but most don't. Given you got a proactive refund, that seller probably has commingled inventory with everyone else, and Amazon is worried they sent you a fake that'll get someone injured and cause them liability.

<comment><USER21> Are they actually liable? If so, we should have seen class acts by now no?

<comment><USER22> Mandatory binding arbitration. You may not sue amazon in a court of law.

<comment><USER23> Binding arbitration is generally not allowed with respect to product liability suits, except in the Eleventh and Fifth Circuits.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Not only are there massive amounts of counterfeit products on Amazon, they also encourage it by letting the sellers fake reviews. Here's how they do it:

* Collect positive reviews on a cheap article.

* Change the product, but not the article ID. The new article then has the reviews of the old one.

* Finally, they lock the reviews by setting the article to "not released yet", even though the product is for sale.

That way, you get positive reviews for a shitty product and customers can't add negative reviews.

Amazon don't do anything about this, even though it's clearly deceptive and, at least here, against the law.

</comment><comment><USER25> Buying any PPE from Amazon is probably a bad idea. Counterfeit or not, the barrier to entry is just too low.

eg, there are specialized climbing harnesses on Amazon which confuse the CE EN standard and the concept of notified bodies. (Which certify conformity.) Leads to hilarity like a climbing harness claiming conformity with the standards for intubation tubes.

Or, climbing equipment which is mislabeled as to its country of origin, with basic specs like dimensions being inaccurate.

The sellers just don't care, and Amazon doesn't care enough to stop them. It's barely one step above ebay for a lot of items.

<comment><USER26> > It's barely one step above ebay for a lot of items.

Is it, though? At least with eBay I know who the product I ordered came from and whom to blame if something goes wrong. If I'm ordering from the manufacturer's official account on eBay I know I'm not getting sent a cheap Chinese knock-off by some other random eBay seller.

With Amazon I apparently don't have that luxury.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> Here's the email I got, the last sentence had me chuckling. We hope to "see" you soon.

\</comment><comment>-

Hello,

We're writing to provide you with important safety information about the eclipse products you purchased on Amazon (order #---- for TOLOCO Solar Eclipse Glasses,CE and ISO Certified Safe Solar Shades Filter for Solar Eclipse Viewing (3-Black)).

To protect your eyes when viewing the sun or an eclipse, NASA and the American Astronomical Society (AAS) advise you to use solar eclipse glasses or other solar filters from recommended manufacturers. Viewing the sun or an eclipse using any other glasses or filters could result in loss of vision or permanent blindness.

Amazon has not received confirmation from the supplier of your order that they sourced the item from a recommended manufacturer. We recommend that you DO NOT use this product to view the sun or the eclipse.

Amazon is applying a balance for the purchase price to Your Account (please allow 7-10 days for this to appear on Your Account). There is no need for you to return the product. You can view your available balance and activity here:

[https://www.amazon.com/gp/css/gc/balance/](https://www.amazon.com/gp/css/gc/balance/)

For more information about safely viewing a solar eclipse please see the NASA and AAS websites.

If you purchased this item for someone else, please pass along this information to the recipient.

We hope to see you again soon.

Sincerely,

Customer Service

<comment><USER28> "We hope to see you again soon."

Fairly poor choice of words..

<comment><USER29> They'll see you, but you may or may not see them.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> What kind of piece of shit makes these things? It's one thing to make a crappy knockoff phone charger. It may be less efficient and even less safe, but you can probably rationalize it away since they mostly work OK.

But this is a piece of safety equipment with a single function, and people only buy it to use it in one way, which will cause direct and immediate harm if the product fails. How can someone live with themselves after doing this?

<comment><USER31> While I have no experience with sellers in this field, I once had a conversation with a vendor who sold 2GB FIFO USB sticks as 64GB USB sticks. This does not exactly blind people, but customers who use these for backups are in for a rude surprise.

The seller confessed to the fraud, but was utterly unrepentant.

I'm trying to have the same conversation with "Microsoft Support" callers trying to install ransomware in my computer. Not much luck getting answers out of that crowd, but no pangs of conscience either.

<comment><USER32> You should listen to the latest episodes of Reply All podcast. They go pretty far to investigate one of those tech support call centers.

There is a part two as well.

[https://gimletmedia.com/episode/long- distance/](https://gimletmedia.com/episode/long-distance/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> >'Amazon said customers who did not receive an email purchased glasses that were safe to use.'

Or they did receive an email and it went into their spam/junk folder. In a situation like this it might be better to email _everyone_ if only to say your glasses are safe. Although that would open them to legal liability if they're wrong.

<comment><USER34> This. Even before the collapse of email as a writing medium, it was never a life-critical system.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> Is there anything particularly dangerous about viewing the sun directly? When I was dumb and young I'd look at the sun for seconds at a time without any problems developing so far. Is the danger that an eclipse encourages you to stare at the sun without encountering any pain?

<comment><USER36> I stared at a partial eclipse as a child without eye protection for several periods of about 10-12 seconds (remembering that I used to occasionally look at the regular sun for 3-4 seconds without apparent injury). Unfortunately, this gave me an afterimage of the eclipse in one eye that lasted for six months (!) -- although I was fortunate that it didn't last even longer than that.

The optometrist I consulted the day after the eclipse said that there didn't appear to be significant permanent damage to my eye, but the subsequent six months of the afterimage, and not being sure whether or not it would last my whole life, were certainly no fun. Overall, I feel like I got very lucky, and I wouldn't have been surprised if the afterimage had lasted for decades rather than months. Maybe it would have if I had continued looking for just a few more seconds!

My impression is that the risk of different kinds of damage is complicated, but there are several things that can go very wrong. One is that the sun during an eclipse is much more _interesting_ than usual, so it's so much more tempting to look longer than momentarily; another is the UV exposure that people have mentioned (where there may still be enough UV to cause damage even at times when the visible light is weak enough not to cause significant discomfort). UV is a big factor that means that we shouldn't trust our intuition about whether something may harm our eyes. In industrial settings, too, people sometimes get significant eye injuries because they're staring at UV (or IR) sources that don't subjectively feel dangerous or painful.

(Edit: taneq in this thread also mentions a problem about dynamic range where your pupillary contraction may not be enough to protect you.)

While permanent damage might not happen quite as quickly as some people may have been led to believe, and some risks may be slightly exaggerated in certain accounts, there's just no reason to take the risk of not having proper eye protection, especially when you can't really judge from the level of discomfort or lack of discomfort whether damage may be happening. As far as I know, every eclipse leads to emergency follow-up optometrist visits, and I can testify that it's no fun to be the patient in one of those visits waiting to hear the news about whether the aftereffects are likely to be permanent.

<comment><USER37> > although I was fortunate that it didn't last even longer than that

It's likely that some of the afterimage is still there but your brain has been rewired to eliminate it.

<comment><USER36> I've definitely considered that possibility, and I figure there's probably no way to know!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> zzalpha predicted this a couple of weeks ago:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14877216#14877731](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14877216#14877731)

</comment><comment><USER39> Instead of risking my vision on some goofy glasses from an unknown supplier, I'm banking on recreating a small camera obscura setup that I did in elementary school. [1]

[https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/make-pinhole- projector.h...](https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/make-pinhole- projector.html)

</comment><comment><USER40> Does anyone have good recommendations for getting a pair as of today (before next weekend)? I'm in the bay area, if that helps.

<comment><USER41> To be honest, it isn't that impressive unless you see the totality, in which case you need no glasses. Completely worth the trip out of the way if you can go see it.

<comment><USER42> Even in totality, the coolest part for me (1999 eclipse) wasn't the visuals - it was the way you could feel the cold/shadow set in during the eclipse.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> What goes around comes around. Amazon has been turning a blind eye to counterfeit products for a long time, it's been getting worse, not better. And now that they got a clue this particular fraud could CAUSE WIDESPREAD BLINDNESS, they have to take responsibility for their own cesspool.

<comment><USER44> Yeah I hope the discovery resulting from the lawsuit from this issue will be explosive enough to force Amazon to change. If it surfaces that they've been knowingly selling counterfeit products... Wow.

</comment></comment><comment><USER45> How do we still have issues with counterfeit products in 2017? There should be electronic records with audit trails for every shipment into the US. This ordeal is probably going to bankrupt several small businesses.

<comment><USER46> This problem specifically could be easily solved by not allowing any random seller to sell the same item on Amazon without the purchases having any idea.

<comment><USER47> I'm not sure what you mean. They do track everything, otherwise they couldn't match up your payment for the product with the vendor it actually came from in order to pay them.

The question is what else are Amazon willing to do with that information, which turns out to be very little or nothing because as soon as Amazon gets humans involved in the transaction making actual decisions, their costs shoot up.

<comment><USER48> > I'm not sure what you mean. They do track everything, otherwise they > couldn't match up your payment for the product with the vendor it actually > came from in order to pay them.

They don't, though. All the same-SKU items go into a big box at the warehouse. When you order from a particular seller, they pick one out of that box and send it to you. There's a good chance the specific one they picked out didn't come from that seller's inventory, but another's.

[https://www.wsj.com/articles/on-amazon-pooled-merchandise- op...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/on-amazon-pooled-merchandise-opens-door- to-knockoffs-1399852852)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER49> If you don't trust Amazon's vendor commingling practices, be sure to test the film:

[https://www.space.com/37698-solar-eclipse-glasses-safety- che...](https://www.space.com/37698-solar-eclipse-glasses-safety-check.html)

<comment><USER50> This page seems to imply that you can tell if your glasses are safe by seeing whether they block out all but the brightest lights (direct sun or perhaps a LED flashlight).

But another page from the AAS seems to say you only get a negative result: if you can see anything other than a very bright light through the glasses, they're unsafe. But that doesn't imply the inverse, that if you can't, they're safe, because of UV protection. [https://eclipse.aas.org/eye-safety/iso- certification](https://eclipse.aas.org/eye-safety/iso-certification)

Can anyone confirm if I've understood that correctly?

<comment><USER51> That's about right, we can't see (with our eyes at least) if the infrared or UV is being filtered.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER52> > "We want customers to buy with confidence anytime they make a purchase on > Amazon.com"

That's a bit rich, what with the 2nd hand camera lens scam the other day and all.

<comment><USER53> I once took for granted that that was in Amzn's best interests and thus their goal, but it really just seems like they're hoping to bank on consumar ignorance/apathy and being the biggest game in town.

It sucks because I recently picked up an amzn gift card from a change conversion machine (my bank now requires you roll your change yourself and I discovered those machines are fee-free if you use them for a giftcard), but I've fewer and fewer needs from Amzn now.

</comment></comment><comment><USER54> I'd say about 50-60% of the electronic items I buy from amazon end up being counterfeit. For this reason, I avoid amazon unless it's unimportant stuff.

<comment><USER55> Yup for me I would say over 30%. I'm sure Consumer Reports will do a study soon and find that near 50% are counterfeit and the stock will drop like a rock.

</comment></comment><comment><USER56> I was always taught to never view an eclipse directly with any kind of filter/glasses.

Use a simple lens, or even a pinhole, to project the image onto another surface and view it that way.

<comment><USER57> That's what we did in elementary school last time it happened in our area years ago. I believe we used a shoe box, took off the lid, poked a pin hole on one side and viewed it.

Here's a link to it's construction.

[https://www.livescience.com/33906-solar-eclipse- viewer.html](https://www.livescience.com/33906-solar-eclipse-viewer.html)

I'd say the box the glasses come in from Amazon is probably more useful than the glasses in many cases. :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER58> How dangerous is it to watch a solar eclipse without proper dark glasses? I recall a Feynman story where he watched the first nuclear bomb test without eye protection, just through the window of a truck. Under the theory that normal glass filters most UV light.

<comment><USER59> Well, Feynman was one of the most brilliant scientists in history, but he was also quite insane. (As one of his students, I say this with a great deal of love and respect for him!)

To answer your question, though, we need to distinguish between a partial eclipse and a _total_ eclipse. You had best use eye protection for a _partial_ eclipse, or even better, use a pinhole projector as I described elsewhere in this thread. (Search the page for my username.)

But a _total_ eclipse is perfectly safe to view with the naked eye, and even with binoculars! You could use a telescope, but binoculars give you a better field of view. Either way, you're not looking at the sun any more, you're looking at the solar corona.

During totality, the sun is completely blocked by the moon itself. This is a much more substantial filter than anything you could ever buy on Amazon.

<comment><USER37> > But a total eclipse is perfectly safe to view with the naked eye, and even > with binoculars!

But one must be careful. As soon as the moon stops blocking the sun, there are sun rays concentrated in a tiny point. Like looking at the point of a powerful laser, it doesn't feel as powerful as it actually is. Esp. regarding invisible wavelengths.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER59> You don't need eclipse glasses.

If you are traveling to (or live in) the zone of totality, don't bother viewing the partial eclipse at all. It's not what you are there for. You are there to experience the total eclipse in all its glory, and you can't use eclipse glasses for that.

Your best viewing tool for the _total_ eclipse is your own eyes and a good pair of binoculars. Yes, plain, unfiltered binoculars. _During totality_ you can look directly at the solar corona. Not only do you not need eye protection, but you'll miss the whole thing if you use any kind of filter.

This is true _only during totality_ , of course.

I recommend doing what hundreds of us did on an Oregon hillside in 1979. During the first partial phase, we put on sunglasses (just ordinary sunglasses) and looked _away_ from the sun. The purpose of this was to get our eyes a bit dark-acclimated, so when it went total we would have an even better view.

By looking away from the sun, you also have a chance of seeing the other interesting effects on the ground: the wavy ripply patterns that appear just before totality, and the shadow of the moon as it rushes toward you at thousands of miles per hour!

As soon as the eclipse became total, people started yelling "totality!" and we took off our sunglasses, turned around, picked up our binoculars, and enjoyed the awesome experience of seeing the solar corona.

The only danger here is that you have to _stop looking_ as soon as the first bit of the Diamond Ring or Baily's Beads appear. Then you're back into the partial eclipse and must use eye protection.

But at that point, most of us just cheered and got ready to go home. After totality, the partial eclipse is not much to get excited about.

If you're not in the zone of totality, then of course you _must not_ look directly at the sun _at any time_. But if you don't have quality eclipse glasses, you still have some other good options.

One is a piece of #14 arc welder's glass. Another that you can improvise on the spot is a pinhole projector. There are various ways you can make one; at the simplest it can just be two pieces of paper, one that you punch a small hole in with a pin, and the other on the ground or a wall. Hold the paper with the hole so that the sunlight goes through it onto the other. You will get a nice image of the partially eclipsed sun projected onto the other paper.

A pinhole projector is the safest way to view the partial eclipse: you are never looking directly at the sun at all, only its projection.

There are numerous plans for building slightly more elaborate pinhole projectors. This page has some good tips:

[http://www.skyandtelescope.com/astronomy-news/how-to-look- at...](http://www.skyandtelescope.com/astronomy-news/how-to-look-at-the-sun/)

Or search for "solar eclipse pinhole projector" to find more.

There is a lot of misinformation going around about eclipse viewing and eye safety. Everything above is true and correct to the best of my knowledge, speaking both from personal experience and extensive research. And I've tried to make very clear the difference between the partial and total eclipse. Of course, if I made a mistake or left anything unclear, please let me know!

There are two main dangers regarding eye safety. One is that someone may view the partial eclipse without proper eye protection and will destroy their vision. This has happened many times, and it is a real tragedy.

The other danger, albeit of a lesser sort, is that many people who travel to the total eclipse zone will mistakenly believe that they need some kind of eye protection _during totality_. As a result, they will completely miss the awesome, life-changing event they went to so much trouble to see.

<comment><USER60> I think they are useful to wear in the last minute before totality, simply as a safe way to determine when totality arrives. Without them it is too tempting to keep glancing up st the sun to see if it is total yet.

<comment><USER59> That is an excellent point; thank you for mentioning it!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Poorly handled by Amazon because the _absence_ of an email (there is no other way to tell, for example from the order page on the amazon web site) signifies that the glasses are safe. So if the email get spam filtered or otherwise doesn't reach the appropriate person, they have no idea that the product isn't safe. The order page should say "not safe" or "safe" so people can check themselves.

</comment><comment><USER61> American Paper Optics made a page showing the differences between their glasses and some knock offs. [https://www.eclipseglasses.com/pages/safety](https://www.eclipseglasses.com/pages/safety)

This doesn't mean the shape can't also be copied perfectly though, so I'm not sure if it's helpful or just doing even more harm.

</comment><comment><USER62> Selling "eclipse glasses", or anything else cheap that encourages people to look directly at the sun, is a terrible idea to begin with. All it takes is some muppet to misread (or ignore) the directions and the next thing you know, they're blind and you've got a lawsuit on your hands.

<comment><USER53> Talking out of your ass aside, ignoring directions and then suing gives you no recourse. If it did, Mcdonald's would not sell hot coffee.

</comment></comment><comment><USER63> This is one of the serious problems with FBA and serious problems with FBA's co-mingled inventory.

When I was selling inventory on Amazon, I actually paid the extra cash to have my inventory placed in a separate location so that I didn't have to deal with other seller's stock/quality issues. It was worth the additional cost (from my point of view) and it worked quite well in ensuring that Amazon's customers who sourced from my stock got the correct product and that I didn't have to deal with angry customers or unexplained returns.

</comment><comment><USER64> So our metro library system (well respected) is promoting an eclipse education event, with free viewing glasses. Should the sourcing be suspect? (95% viewing area)

<comment><USER19> Many libraries have received glasses for free from the Space Science Institute, which is a reputable organisation funded by NASA, the National Science Foundation, and others.

There's a map of libraries on their website:

[http://spacescience.org/software/libraries/map.php](http://spacescience.org/software/libraries/map.php)

If yours is on that list, you should be pretty safe, I think.

</comment></comment><comment><USER43> A viable safe test would be a clear (unfrosted) incandescent or halogen bulb on a rheostat. Glasses on, bulb off, turn up the brightness somewhat slowly. You should be able to look directly at the filament comfortably if you have good glasses. If you have fakes, as long as you ramp up brightness slow enough, your natural response to squint will kick in before you wreck your retinas.

You definitely do not want to test this on the sun.

<comment><USER65> How does it test the fact that glasses block UV part of the spectrum? That is where the damage is coming from not from the the visible part.

</comment></comment><comment><USER66> I posted 32 days ago asking how to tell if they are real [1]. Amazon informed me that they are fake. Unfortunately I have no way to buy glasses now and will use the pin whole method, but its pretty dissapointing. I hope no one gets hurt

[1] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14755020](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14755020)

<comment><USER67> I've got some extras that I'm willing to share. E-mail me your address and I'll mail you a pair. I'm in SoCal so they should arrive in SF in time for the eclipse.

I got mine directly from one of the NASA-approved suppliers, precisely because I don't trust Amazon anymore. Had to order a small batch, even though I only needed a few: I figured not going blind is worth ~$30.

<comment><USER66> Wow, thanks! What is your email? Mine is in my profile.

<comment><USER67> Hmm, I don't see it. Maybe my karma's not high enough? Looks like my e-mail's not visible either; sorry I'm not too familiar with HN's system.

Anyway, my e-mail is [HN account name] at x0.ms.

<comment><USER66> I just saw this. I appreciate you offering, but I missed my window as I will be out of town for a wedding. I appreciate the offer!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER68> I bought a set of 15 supposedly iso certified and tested them all when I got them. Couldn't see light bulbs or anything else but the sun. I wonder if they seller sold a mix of counterfit or just wasn't able to get the certification to amazon as a bulk seller?

<comment><USER69> > Couldn't see light bulbs or anything else but the sun.

Are all the harmful wavelengths visible? What you don't see can hurt you (for instance, see the table at [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_safety#Damage_mechanisms](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_safety#Damage_mechanisms)), and depending on the material it could filter some wavelengths but let other wavelengths pass. Testing just with visible light is not enough.

<comment><USER68> That's not really something I could test readily at home. Additionally, the light bulb test is what the local news was saying is a good quick and dirty test to check for counterfeits. I obviously can't certify them. [https://eclipse.aas.org/eye-safety/iso- certification](https://eclipse.aas.org/eye-safety/iso-certification)

E1: I'll probably end up getting new ones; I guess you're right.

E2: Because everyone cares about my saga, of course, the seller appears to have sold blatantly fraudulent ones as well. Apparently lowes has certified ones, so I'm going to pop in there tomorrow.

E3: in classic "pay attention to me" style, but also in the hopes of helping someone else out: [https://www.eclipseglasses.com/pages/safety](https://www.eclipseglasses.com/pages/safety) my glasses look like the counterfeit version listed on the mfg website.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER70> I hope this is a wake up call for Amazon and they start cleaning up and cutting back the third party sellers.

It's to the point where I don't bother checking Amazon for a lot of things because I know it will be too hard to find a legit seller.

</comment><comment><USER71> Better now than the 22nd. Bravo Amazon.

The walmart i know still has them for $1.

<comment><USER44> Bravo? Amazon sells counterfeit shit all over. They're panicking and trying to avoid a tiny bit of the inevitable damage. I bet they'll settle quickly versus risk the full extent of their malicious behaviour become public knowledge.

<comment><USER71> Well... Bravo in the sense that by recalling they admit they have counterfeit problem.

It is not too late ever for a company to admit they made a mistake. Look at the catholic church

<comment><USER72> I don't think you're helping your case there with that comparison.

<comment><USER71> Yeah. Do over. I was trying to think of an organization that didnt admit to a problem until confronted and obvious.

My bad

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER73> >"Safety is among our highest priorities...

That's an odd way for Amazon to put it. Presumably not injuring your customers is priority number one in most businesses?

</comment><comment><USER74> So how long can I safely look at the eclipse WITHOUT glasses.

Can I take like 5 second glances?

Is there some minimum rest period between them?

(I ordered glasses but will assume they are fake).

<comment><USER75> If you look at the eclipse at all without glasses, you will cause permanent eye damage. It's worse than looking directly at a sun NOT during an eclipse.

Don't do what you suggest. Seriously.

<comment><USER74> OK.. I just assumed it was the same at staring at the sun... except without the blinding light that normally forces you to look away due to pain.

On further research looks like something about your eye having a specific point to focus on which gets damaged immediately.

Thanks.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER76> Use an old floppy disk to see the eclipse. I'm serious

It seems opaque, but it is transparent enough to see the sun

<comment><USER77> That is horrific and likely dangerous "advice".

The mylar composite used in floppy disks seems opaque... to visible light. 54% of the Sun's energy output is in other wavelengths. There is no certification that a floppy disk cookie will block those. Plus it has a big hole in the middle, danger of inadvertent viewing.

This is like the argument I have with other photographers _every_ eclipse when they try to use their 'super-dark' neutral-density filters. Sure they block ten stops of _light_ , but the IR and UV just sails on through.

Unless it's designed and certifed as a Solar viewing material just don't even contemplate it. You're better watching the eclipse on TV in that case.

<comment><USER76> > Unless it's designed and certifed as a Solar viewing material just don't > even contemplate it.

People have been using dark pieces of photographic film to see eclipses since ever. I wonder if there has been studies on its UV transmissibility

Thought you're right about the super-dark film and I don't think those are dark enough even on the visible range

Though I do agree if you want to stare at it directly your best choice is to get solar viewing glasses (preferably not a fake one)

This page has some tests: astronexus.com/gatfaq/solar-filters besides poor optical quality floppy disks allow wavelenghts > 800nm to pass (this is IR range)

A good suggestion that seems easy to obtain: welder's glass

<comment><USER78> > People have been using dark pieces of photographic film to see eclipses > since ever.

Fully exposed and developed _black and white_ film is safe, color negative film, however, is totally unsafe, regardless of how dark it might seem. The film has to contain real silver particles, not color dyes.

Beware of monochromatic film that looks black and white but it's really a color negative film developed using C41 process. It has to be _real black and white_ film.

[http://www.mreclipse.com/Totality2/TotalityCh11.html#Film](http://www.mreclipse.com/Totality2/TotalityCh11.html#Film)

[https://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEhelp/safety.html](https://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEhelp/safety.html)</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Fan Bi, Blank Label, and the case for the Founders Visa - <AUTHOR> http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2009/12/17/invent-a-cool-clothing-site-now-leave-the-country-fan-bi-blank-label-and-the-case-for-the-founders-visa/

<comment><USER2> This article is not a clear cut case for a founder's visa as the business model isn't at all clear it should be operated from the U.S. Quality control from Shanghai is a critical element of this business. Boston does not provide enough of an edge to addressing their global market than many other cities. Shanghai would do well for a headquarters for all aspects of the business, possibly better than Boston. The only thing I get from this article is the founder likes the vibe in Boston and wants to stay.

</comment><comment><USER3> The problem is such visa issuances invariably involve working closely with IRS (to ensure the person actually runs the business, makes enough money, employs all the people he/she claims, etc). And I don't think these two parts of the government have great communication or the infrastructure to have a good communication.

<comment><USER4> eh.. it's called an "audit", and they've had that infrastructure forever.</comment></comment>


New RStudio Beta Available - <AUTHOR> http://blog.rstudio.org/2011/06/14/rstudio-beta-3-v0-94/

<comment><USER2> For such an early project, RStudio is _extremely_ impressive. I really like the interactive plotting: <http://www.rstudio.org/docs/advanced/manipulate></comment>