A Teenager's View on Social Media - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@thatswattsup/a-teenagers-view-on-social-media-1df945c09ac6 <comment><USER3> This is weird; the author possibly met with the CEO of Snapchat more than once recently:

[https://twitter.com/thatswattsup/status/546018511902867456](https://twitter.com/thatswattsup/status/546018511902867456)

> Can't wait to visit my friends at @Snapchat again tomorrow :D

[https://twitter.com/thatswattsup/status/545326840940740608](https://twitter.com/thatswattsup/status/545326840940740608)

> Loved hanging out with @evanspiegel yesterday, he's one of the nicest and > more genuine guys I've met. Thanks for having me @Snapchat!

...influencer? Hope not :(

<comment><USER4> I was teaching a lesson on cryptography to a bunch of twelve year olds this morning, and with reference to https, I asked how many had used Facebook before school - no hands, how about Instagram - no hands, how about Snapchat - half the class put their hands up. It's definitely the most popular network amongst teens in my (UK) school.

<comment><USER5> Uh.. Could it be that people under 13 are not allowed on Facebook?

<comment><USER6> People under 18 also aren't allowed to watch porn, and people under 21 definitely can't drink.

<comment><USER7> There's a pretty big difference between grabbing content off some site and establishing a social media presence, surely?

<comment><USER8> No? In one case, you click a button and/or check a box to confirm you are of a certain age to see porn, in the other you enter a wrong number into a specific field during account creation.

In then end, people desire something (access to content and/or interaction), and all that prevents them from having it is being completely truthful in one spot about a question that really doesn't seem that important.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> This is filled with gems that old farts like me (I'm 30) don't have any idea about.

 _If I don't get any likes on my Instagram photo or Facebook post within 15 minutes you can sure bet I 'll delete it._

Super interesting take - it's as though they are posting not to show people stuff but to get people's approval for what they are posting. Simple but critically different in my opinion.

 _Facebook is often used by us mainly for its group functionality._

Got it, so make a better group service and bring everyone to that.

One big thing I took away is that, assuming this is representative of the demographic, they seem to not mind using multiple applications for communications. So there really is the ability to pretty narrowly specialize with functions - something I think the older generation does backwards; we want to consolidate and make services a "one stop shop."

<comment><USER10> _it 's as though they are posting not to show people stuff but to get people's approval for what they are posting_

Yes that's what lives pretty strong in that generation - and on social media in general, I have the impression. For some that goes really far, maybe too far, and people become unhappy or even depressed if they are not seen/approved by others.

Which is like in real life, but also at the same time not quite: in real life conversations etc you show a lot of yourself because it's impossible to hide. Facial expressions, body language, meeting pople early in the morning when you're not at your best, on one of those days where the whole world is against you, and so on. In virtual life however you try to make sure that side of you doesn't show. You could call it a lie. I'm not sure if that is good, bad or neither.

<comment><USER11> I think that's more a quality of young people, not just "this generation."

I was probably like that once, even though I think I wasn't. I remember everyone around me being concerned with being "liked."

More importantly, Mean Girls and Fast Times at Ridgemont High and Wonder Years all seem that way.

Who know with kids, they make no sense in any generation. :)

<comment><USER12> Spot on. I've since forgotten about this, but at that age I do remember caring way too much about being liked and what others thought.

It was not that I was so vain - it just seemed like a reality to me. Reality seemed to be, you have to be cool like these guys / that guy / whoever or else you will never have a girlfriend and never have sex and die alone.

In hindsight, that's stupid, idiotic even. But back then that was my life. And it's still like that for teens now. Explains why I can talk to a teen and they seem like perfectly reasonable people, except 10 minutes later they go off and do something unimaginably stupid.

Maybe it's a sort of random mutation of our social genetic makeup - teens must do stupid, senseless stuff, and some, randomly, discover something great (while lots of others just embarrass or injure themselves).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> _many have nailed this on the head. It's dead to us._

The next few paragraphs then go on to describe Facebook as essential social plumbing. I think an FB product manager would be delighted to hear that Facebook is "dead" in this way.

This is _precisely_ why the most successful social network of its generation was built, first and foremost, to be a platform rather than a cocktail party.

<comment><USER14> So were Yahoo and AOL. If specialized apps start to show up, people may start ditching FB altogether.

<comment><USER15> Not too sure about that. All of my friends (I'm 23) have FB and while we all more or less hate it we wouldn't dream of not being on FB. It's the best way to connect with someone you meet (through friends, at a bar, etc) and you don't have to ask for a number. Just friend request, chat a little bit and if it works out swap numbers and move to SMS.

Like your parent said I see FB as "essential social plumbing", not the most glamorous or best but a necessity and way to connect to people before you go "off FB" to another app or SMS to chat/interact. The only reason I "post" to FB is b/c my Twitter posts to FB. I rarely use Twitter except from trying to get companies attention after having them ignore support requests or not having any other support at all. Multiple times I've used a websites/app's built in ticketing system only to get no response. A pissed tweet a couple days later and I've got a response within the hour... The squeaky wheel...

<comment><USER16> > we wouldn't dream of not being on FB

And 10 years ago I wouldn't dream of not having my ICQ friends. Your dreams are not the /most/ relevant.

<comment><USER17> And just because it's happened in the past does not guarantee that it will happen again. People have been predicting the downfall of Facebook for years, but it keeps growing.

<comment><USER18> It will, I can think of a ton of services I've used in the past that one day you just stop logging on. You don't even remember the last day of using them, just one day you stop. Then slowly everyone stops. (E.g., AOL, AIM, Geocities, IRC^, MySpace, and most recently Path & Instagram).

I assume the same will happen in my life for Facebook, Reddit, Twitter, etc. One day I will just stop.

^I use IRC for dev stuff now, but there was a good 5 years where it was no longer a part of my life. I was a gamer who played CS in the early 2000s.

<comment><USER17> Obviously nothing stays around forever. But there is a big difference between a trendy app that everyone uses for a couple years and then stops, and Facebook, which many people don't use on a daily basis but still keep it around because its usefulness outweighs the effort required to keep your account. I have friends who have deleted their Facebook accounts, only to come back a month later with a very basic account just because they need to keep in touch with some circle of friends that they otherwise wouldn't be able to.

<comment><USER16> Not at all obvious to the investors who value these companies at tens and hundreds of billions of dollars. They don't expect them to dissapear in 5-10 years

<comment><USER17> Seeing as how Facebook has been around for over 10 years now, I don't see how that's relevant in this case.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Here's another teenager's view on social media.

I don't have an account for any of these, and I don't want one. I have, let's see, HN, GitHub, and Stack Exchange. Those accounts are my online identity, which I make sure is separate from my real identity. If you want to contact me, you can email me, or if you know me in real life, you can text me. I don't feel smug about not having those accounts, but I'm not embarrassed either. Maybe it's just because I don't socialize with the "normal" people my age, or something else, but more people than you might expect understand when I say I don't have an account. I don't want them because they would be more of a time suck than the Internet already is, and no one really has trouble finding me.

<comment><USER20> I mean, you sound like a pretty typical hacker kid... which is to say, not a typical kid that people care about when discussing things like market share or teen trends.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> 20/m/europe

>In short, many have nailed this on the head. It's dead to us. Facebook is something we all got in middle school because it was cool but now is seen as an awkward family dinner party we can't really leave.

What?

>Snapchat is where we can really be ourselves while being attached to our social identity. Without the constant social pressure of a follower count or Facebook friends, I am not constantly having these random people shoved in front of me. Instead, Snapchat is a somewhat intimate network of friends who I don't care if they see me at a party having fun.

I use snapchat to send funny images of myself to my girlfriend

>WhatsApp- You download it when you go abroad, you use it there for a bit before going back to iMessage and Facebook Messenger, you delete it. I know tons of people who use it to communicate with friends they made abroad, but I feel like Messenger is beginning to overshadow it. For international students, however, WhatsApp is a pivotal tool that I've heard is truly useful.

Back here we use WhatsApp exclusively almost, fb messenger when we must

>Tumblr is like a secret society that everyone is in, but no one talks about. Tumblr is where you are your true self and surround yourself (through who you follow) with people who have similar interests.

To me, tumblr is a place where hipsters post images from the internet, back on the internet

edit: added location, might be very relevant

<comment><USER22> WhatsApp has far fewer users in North America than every other region of the world. It's not surprising that an American teenager studying at an American college would have no use for it.

[http://www.marketingprofs.com/charts/2014/24497/whatsapp- by-...](http://www.marketingprofs.com/charts/2014/24497/whatsapp-by-the- numbers-where-its-used-most)

<comment><USER23> I now know quite a few whatsapp users put I was patient zero for the local epidemic - and I only noticed its existence because a friend of mine from .sg introduced me to it.

(disclaimer: am in UK, am 31, don't have a lawn)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Pretty much nailed it on the head:

 _If I could break down a party for you in social media terms, here's how it would pan out:_

* _On Snapchat, you post you getting ready for the party, going to the party, having fun at the party, the end of the party, and the morning after the party._

* _On Facebook you post the cute, posed pictures you took with your friends at the party with a few candids (definitely no alcohol in these photos)._

* _On Instagram you pick the cutest one of the bunch to post to your network._

I said it then and I'll say it now, FB screwed up when they pivoted to copy Twitter. FB was fun when it was more private. Zuck should've realised that once there was a critical mass of news reports of teens getting in trouble for stupid FB and Twitter posts, teens would dump the service.

</comment><comment><USER25> Also noteworthy that Google+ didn't even get a mention, even if to mock it.

<comment><USER26> Are there people who actively use G+? To me it seems to have turned into this weird thing that tries to offer a lot of functionality but doesn't really make it clear what it actually is. It was supposed to be a social network and now it's Google's "social layer" \- whatever that may mean. I personally don't even know anyone who would describe G+ as relevant.

<comment><USER27> The only reason why I "use" G+ is for photos - and that's only because Google got rid of all the Picasa albums. But the interface is so horrible I can't believe it's actually made by google. Once you got to photos it opens the most recent album by default(why??) and the option to switch to albums view is not where you would expect it(on the 3-stripe option icon that every other product got us used to), but instead it's hidden away. It makes absolutely no sense and I hate using it as a product. The only reason why I have to visit it occasionally is that Picassa(the actual tool) is fantastic for backing up and managing pictures.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> People's take on Twitter is always fascinating.

I didn't really get it at all either, until I followed people relevant to my interests. Now I can't live without it - it's an amazing source of material.

Not sure if that translates to industries outside of tech or not. It's both a source of learning and revenue. Having an audience on twitter literally™ makes me money on eBook sales and other things I do. It's a great place for "organic targeted marketing", so to speak.

</comment><comment><USER29> Piggybacking off bcRIPster (now down voted) post, I'd be curious to know the race of the teen author and if the preferences he observed are the same across others with different ethnic and racial background. Among my 30-something and 40-something circle I've noticed that most of my white and Asian friends tend to utilize Facebook more while most of my black friends tend to use Twitter more. Instagram seems more evenly split.

<comment><USER30> This is only anecdotal of course, but I taught in a 99% African-American public high school and it seemed like most students were on Twitter. Most of those former students are obsessed with Snapchat now -- I do get a lot of the "I'm so bored" messages from them via My Story. I guess when you have to opt- in to see someone's Story it doesn't feel like you're spamming someone if you post a bunch -- your friends control the spigot.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> I have never felt so old reading a post :D

What I find interesting is the stark contrast to people's predictions from years ago. I can recall the speculation about how in a world of facebook our lives will be documented forever, and the problems that will cause. That very real concern seems to not only have been well received, but they seem to be taking precautions. Unexpected, but very encouraging!

<comment><USER32> Feeling old too. I do_not_get the need to post the highlights of your day throughout the day. It reeks of narcissism. I feel sorry for them, in my oldness.

<comment><USER33> Well, lets put it this way, you never told your group of friends while in school about something cool that happened and would make you look good? Many social media interactions are that type of chatter, nothing more, but over a different medium than speech.

<comment><USER32> Sure I do that. But not a dozen (actually mundane) things daily, like the teen's "I'm about to go to this cool party". Among my friends we might mention the highlight of the week by email.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> > In this part Facebook shines- groups do not have the same complicated > algorithms behind them that the Newsfeed does. It is very easy to just see > the new information posted on the group without having to sift through tons > of posts and advertising you don't really care about.

That part resonates with me, and I'm not young. I was an early Facebook user (2003-2004 when I was a college freshman) way before the news feed existed, and way before it starting "algorithmically" filtering and sorting. I've always hated it.

<comment><USER35> Facebook wasn't even founded until February 2004, and at that time it was limited to only Harvard University. [https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=when+was+facebook+creat...](https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=when+was+facebook+created)

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> _The content on Instagram is usually a higher quality. People take time to edit their photos with filters, different brightness /contrast settings, etc. ... This means the content on Instagram is normally "better" (photo-wise)_

That's the OP's personal experience of course, mine is sort of the opposite: facebook has all sorts of crappy pictures, instagram has those as well but made even worse by having applied all kinds of filters most of which appeal ugly to me. Tumblr on the other hand I consider as a source for decent/pro material (as in, actually beautiful pictures taken with proper cameras). Maybe all this is because of who I'm following though.

</comment><comment><USER36> For another single data point I asked my 15 year old son a few months back about what social media platforms he uses and was rather surprised to have him answer "Facebook is for old people" \- which probably means over 20.

<comment><USER37> What else did he say?

<comment><USER36> Some evasive mutterings about Snapchat.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> Really interesting views on people disliking but still using Facebook. I was walking around my college's campus a few years ago and overheard a girl saying "well, he doesn't have a facebook, so thats kind of a huge red flag to me. I dont think I'm going to keep talking to him" Funny what an animal social media has become...

</comment><comment><USER39> Am I in the minority by thinking a 19 year old college student is not what people think of when they hear "teens?"

<comment><USER40> I felt the same way but his take seems pretty spot on for me, in Chicago all college students use yik yak and groupme when I mention whatsapp they don't understand why I'd want to use it over text or groupme.

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> Okay, I'm 22, that's not much older than this guy. I know a lot of 18 and 19 year olds. How does it look to me?

Facebook: most people use this primarily, but about 1 in 5 people does not because they object to pervasive surveillance/got frustrated by the newsfeed reordering/dislike Zuckerburg personally/are just asocial. Facebook Messenger is the main way of communicating with people who have it. You also use it to communicate with people who don't have Facebook Messenger by the indirection of using Facebook Messenger to talk to someone who might have their phone number. Instagram: I know a total of maybe two people that use this at all, and they have their content copying to Facebook which is where most people see it I think. Twitter: Not a lot of people use this, with the curious exception of the Facebook objectors, who mostly use this. Snapchat: I know a few people who use Snapchat but I don't think anyone takes it seriously. Of course that's kind of the point. General assumption is that snapchat users are trading dickpics and just not sharing with the rest of us. Tumblr: A lot of people are tumblr users but in sort of a "guilty pleasure" way, you don't discuss it with people you're trying to win the respect of. Perception is that it's mostly [furry]porn and SJWs. Admittedly this is roughly correct. Yik Yak: Took the campus by storm. Most people use it exclusively to either complain about faculty, ineffectively try to find a date, or to make fun of the former two. Openly mocked, but in the way that makes other people install the app just to see what's being joked about, so I guess that's a social strategy. Medium: Maybe a handful of CS majors even know what it is.

Yeah, I go to a small engineering school and my social group is primarily in CS. I'm sure this impacts my experience a lot. This is exactly my point: I think social media/application/etc usage is far too specific to social groups, institutions, and even geographical areas for it to be remotely useful to work off of anecdotes. Here Facebook is absolutely king, but I can imagine a "trendier" population (not Engineering students) might have a certain ire for it. I think Instagram isn't widely used just for lack of having achieved critical mass in this particular student body, there may (and probably will) come a day when that changes.

This is probably part of why "what teens are into" reporting seems so ridiculous. It's based on a shallow look at one group of people, and behavior varies far too much between groups. Broad statistical data would be far more useful for marketing purposes, but the results would still ring hollow for many specific peer groups.

<comment><USER42> Not surprised insta isn't popular among your engineering group. It's like twitter but for photos.. it's very visual-based. a lot of artists and celebs are on it.

also seems to be the home of pretty girls posting selfies and getting validation from that.

it's like a cooler, more upscale version of facebook. Insta is hugely popular from what I'm seeing

</comment></comment><comment><USER43> "Facebook is dead to us but we use it for X,Y, and Z." I found this kinda funny. Obviously it's not dead to you if you use it for a variety of purposes. Seems like friends I have with teenage kids are mostly on Facebook. Now it may not be their primary outlet. But "dead" seems to be a bit of an exaggeration.

<comment><USER44> "its dead to us (as a means of expressing ourselves)" is how I read that particular quote, and it certainly resonates with me as a twenty something male. I'm sure it's even more true for younger people. It's necessary because of how ubiquitous it is but I'm not sure that (in the context of social media) is necessarily good news for Facebook.

</comment></comment><comment><USER45> I wonder if the teens who favour Instagram and Snapchat today will nevertheless age into people who get more out of Facebook as they get older.

When you're young, most of the people you know and think about are still right there around you and you see them almost every day. You haven't left too many people behind yet. But that changes quickly over time and an increasing proportion of the people you know and care about, the ones you met at a particular place and time in your life, are no longer close by. Being able to keep in touch with those people's comings and goings and relationships and family lives to the (relative) depth afforded by Facebook probably becomes more attractive and more valuable.

So although Facebook may be losing its original stomping ground to simpler, more targeted alternatives, perhaps both Facebook and its active user base are maturing together.

</comment><comment><USER46> > I only know a handful of people (myself included) that believe Snapchat does > delete your photos. Everyone else I know believes that Snapchat has some > secret database somewhere with all of your photos on it.

It takes a special kind of stupid to even consider the idea that the photos are _really_ deleted.

<comment><USER47> Well, then I guess you're calling a majority of the population (including doctors, lawyers, artist, musicians, etc) "stupid".

What you really mean is someone who doesn't understand how technology (and tech companies) work.

This could easily be mitigated if we enforced privacy laws saying that if you tell someone something is deleted, then it must actually be securely deleted. They might even be on the books already, just enforce them.

<comment><USER48> If something goes online, it stays online. Proxies, long term caches, archives, you name it. Relying on privacy laws of secure deletion would be the same mistake.

Delete buttons should really be labelled as "hide stuff from everybody except us."

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER49> When I heard 'teenager' I was thinking 13/14\. Like a middle school or young high schooler, not a college freshman.

</comment><comment><USER50> Why is everyone seemingly falling over themselves in a rush to discredit this guy?

<comment><USER51> Most people on here refuse to incorporate any non-objective knowledge into their world view. An anecdotal article like this causes malfunction.

</comment></comment><comment><USER52> He uses facebook as a directory service occasionally, the same way us "old people" use linkedin.

Observationally my kids are a little younger than him and facebook is dead to them. My wife is still addicted. They used to complain about family tagging them in pix (especially embarrassing-ish such as anything from when they were little) and now they don't even care, nobody uses it.

"Not too many people talk about it." \- thats not pinterest, thats reddit and 4chan. Everyone is on baconreader and clover, and just like fight club, rule one is no one talks about fight club (or 4chan or reddit).

</comment><comment><USER53> 17/M/Argentina

I'm not really into Social Networks, I guess you can tell by the fact that I'm on HackerNews. However I can provide some insight in what's the panorama in the other half of the world.

Facebook is still king, everyone uses it, everyone has it. I use it exclusively for groups (school group, friends group) since it's easy to post questions or info in there and make sure everyone reads it. I also use it to chat with people (although via Pidgin, I barely go to facebook.com). I do see however a huge ammount of traffic in my feed. So I guess it's not going anytime soon.

Whatsapp is __hugely __popular. Everyone uses it, even for work related stuff. I 'm not sure why it's not as popular in the US/Europe (I guess because of iMessage?) But calls/SMS are barely a thing, everything is Whatsapp now. Sadly, I'm not a big fan of it, it's great for sending quick messages and talk something in a group, but people here use it for __everything __which means I have to get my hands off the keyboard and type in a tiny touch screen to talk with someone. You usually get randomly added to Whatsapp groups too, where you get invited to parties and stuff like that, I 'm not a big fan of this either, since it's really easy to miss a message. However, I reckon my social life has improved considerably since I got Whatsapp because of all the invites I get now.

Twitter has gotten very big lately too, I started using Twitter about 3 years ago, and I mostly use it to follow tech people and get news, probably the same way most of you use it. However, my friends use it as some kind of Facebook. They tweet __everything __they are doing, and they also maintain conversations using it. I think this is silly, I don 't know why they do it, you can know everything about someone by just reading his Twitter feed.

Instagram is not huge but it's catching up. It's mostly used by girls and hipster/cool/popular guys (not sure how to describe them). I never go there and I really don't care.

Snapchat/Tumblr/YikYak are not even thing, heck, I don't even know what YikYak is supposed to be.

I wish more people would start using IRC, but well, I guess that's not happening.

</comment><comment><USER54> I wonder if I'd have a Facebook if I was a teenager today.

It's hard enough not having one now, and even though I was never one to give in to social pressure, I wonder if it would be simply unbearable.

<comment><USER55> I went through college without a Facebook, but I made one shortly after graduating and I've been using it more and more (about 3 years).

I now realize that in retrospect it was a huge mistake as I missed out on a _lot_. I think on a certain level, if you don't have a FB, people won't make the extra effort to try and contact you. Its most important social function is turning acquaintances into friends

So just as a PSA, please please use Facebook. Even if you don't like it and you think they're a horrible company, you won't appreciate how much you're hurting yourself till it's too late

<comment><USER56> I never had a FB account. I'm 39 and married. Exactly what am I missing out on?

I use email and text message for most correspondence, and have LinkedIn mainly as a virtual Rolodex so I can get in touch with old friends and colleagues.

I don't get what I'm missing. Maybe I'm just in the wrong demographic?

<comment><USER52> I made an account back when it was popular, and used it hard for about six months, then evaluated if it did anything for me. Answer, no, so deleted.

The kids had a fad of facebook about a year ago, they guilt tripped me into rejoining, they used it hard for a couple months, now its dead. It was weird because all the people who used to use FB, stopped. Its very quiet...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER57> 22/m/europe here

\- Facebook

Everyone uses it and there is peer pressure for you to have it. Everyone talks about deleting their account but never does. I rarely use the website or the app but I use Messenger everyday to talk with foreign friends (mostly in the US)

\- Twitter

Used to have an account a few years ago, but it just wasn't my thing. Extremely popular though its ux seems to have dropped a lot

\- Snapchat

Not really a thing, most people I know barely know it exists. Used it for a while a year ago but it was a fad for me.

\- Tumblr

Not really a thing anymore for me, but it seems to be really popular for people between 12-16

\- Instagram

I might be the minority here but I mainly use it for photography. Has replaced Flickr and Tumblr for me

\- Whatsapp

#1. SMS charges were too expensive until a few years ago so it exploded (I think we are the biggest market in europe now, so you might guess where I'm from). Biggest downside is the lack of group control, you can get added to any group without your permission and it is 'poor form' to leave. I have a couple of them on mute and rarely read them.

\- Telegram

Seems to be gaining some use since Whatsapp got acquired by Facebook though I personally don't use it. Seems redundant to have two IM apps when everyone is on Whatsapp anyway

</comment><comment><USER58> Models most of my use, however I like WhatsApp a lot. I used it when I still had a Windows Phone (iPhone 6 now) and I needed a better messaging app that went over the web than facebook because I had horrible service on campus. It's a very capable, simple, reliable (or used to be anyways), and feature filled messaging app which I wish more people used. iMessage does most of what WhatsApp does though for talking to iOS users and it has a desktop app so I use that more now.

I almost refuse to use facebook except to share select photos/videos privately (only me + tagged people) and message people who I haven't talked to in a while. Groups are usually never useful and I use other things.

Twitter is great, tumblr is good but not for me, snapchat isn't for me (too obvious you're taking a photo of your self), and instagram still makes me feel the facebook "it'll never die on the internet once uploaded" scary feeling.

</comment><comment> X-combinator _Many of those younger than me (10–16 years old) who I 've talked to about this matter don't even have a Facebook — Instagram is all that they need._

As a 15 year I totally agree, but Hacker News is one my favorites site because I just love discovering new things on the web(That's the only reason I visit HN)

Also Facebook simply "Stinks"

</comment><comment><USER59> While an interesting article I'd take it with a grain of salt and not try to make generalizations about others' social media use.

The author seems like he's on the high end of social media use.

As a 22 year old male I check Facebook occasionally to see what my friends and family who live in different areas are doing, and that's about it.

</comment><comment><USER60> I'm amazed how many people here say "everyone is on facebook". Edit: Maybe it's like that because you've molded your social circles to fit those of your own socioeconomic status?

From my closest 20 friends (all of them I've known for 5+ years), 7 use facebook, most of them use IRC and the rest are on WhatsApp. I've never made any new friends through facebook, as a matter of fact, the posts made by people on facebook push them further away from me, because I'm a cynical bastard and their shameless self-promotion is disgusting to me and I see through their bullshit.

To me, facebook always seemed like a public display window of your life, to show off those old high school classmates that nowadays you live in the cool downtown hipster district and you've gotten laid. Nothing to do with actual friendships or socializing.

24/m/finland

</comment><comment><USER61> > "Another point: tagging. I don't have to constantly check Instagram to make > sure I wasn't tagged in any awkward or bad photos. That's because you can't > see them on my profile, making the whole experience seem way more private."

The fourth tab on every Instagram profile allows you to see just this...

<comment><USER62> That's true. They do give you more control than Facebook though. More privacy settings, and restrictions on who can tag.

[https://help.instagram.com/186952328121982/](https://help.instagram.com/186952328121982/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER63> Is NOT sharing even an option with a dozen social networks to chose from?

I wrote a response to bring up some important questions that Andrew's article brought up.

[https://medium.com/@sozh/the-sunset- question-1855a3ed80d](https://medium.com/@sozh/the-sunset- question-1855a3ed80d)

</comment><comment><USER64> As a slightly younger teen (17), I have a completely different view of Twitter. I'm not sure if it's unique to my specific area, but quite a significant number of the people around me are on Twitter and use it to communicate funny things they see, or just share opinions (I guess the author approaches this with "complain/express yourself"). To me, I go on twitter to see what people are saying about any given event, especially sporting events. At other times, I will find memes or jokes or just anything that is somewhat funny. Overall, the three groups that Andrew brings up aren't really complete.

</comment><comment><USER65> To be fair he did say these were all just anecdotes. He just phrased the descriptions in a way that seems "matter of fact" and everyone seems to be taking that and running with it.

For example, as someone else in here mentioned, this is more like "A North American Teenager's View of Social Media".

I bet he hasn't even heard of QQ, which has over 1 billion users. His lack of understanding of WhatsApp says a lot because as someone else mentioned WhatsApp has the least penetration in North America, but everywhere else it's the lifeblood of online social interactions.

</comment><comment><USER66> > WhatsApp- You download it when you go abroad, you use it there for a bit > before going back to iMessage and Facebook Messenger, you delete it. I know > tons of people who use it to communicate with friends they made abroad, but > I feel like Messenger is beginning to overshadow it. For international > students, however, WhatsApp is a pivotal tool that I've heard is truly > useful.

Perhaps the title should have been 'A North American Teenager's view of Social Media'

Edit: Minor re-wording

<comment><USER67> Fair, but probably true for predominantly all articles posted on HackerNews. Especially in the startup culture, I feel it's pretty much assumed.

</comment></comment><comment><USER68> I really don't like these "Teenager's view of social media' type posts. All of them make the mistake that teens only have time for two or three apps and that the teen demographic is very homogenous. I get a little disappointed when a post like this then gets reported as the demise of Facebook, because that's not really an accurate observation.

Looks like I better write a response post.

</comment><comment><USER69> I'm 30 and I use GChat/Google Talk/Hangouts (they're all the same thing) all the time. So does almost everyone I know. Haven't seen it mentioned here.

We don't really care if that data gets exposed to/by the NSA. It's mostly like "I'm off today whats up" or "Want to hit the bar after work?" type stuff.

</comment><comment><USER70> In Germany I got the feeling that most younger people rather use WhatsApp for its group functionality, than Facebook.

</comment><comment><USER30> > "I have yet to ever hear of a hot post on Secret that everyone's talking > about"

I get the feeling Secret's redesign strategy is just being Yik-Yak for the post-college crowd. I'd imagine the location data is more valuable/marketable for working people in big metro areas than incomeless students.

</comment><comment><USER71> >The only time I ever hear this application is for the joke, "Aye you got Kik?", normally seen as someone trying to "spit game" to attract a partner. It's really difficult for me to describe it here but it isn't super relevant.

This paragraph is mystifying. Can someone explain what he's talking about here?

<comment><USER72> The only time the author hears about Kik is in the quoted joke. In the joke, the admirer asks the object of their affection if they are a user of Kik, rather than asking directly for their contact information. Kik is really difficult for the author to describe on Medium. Luckily, Kik isn't super relevant to the author.

</comment></comment><comment><USER73> I wonder how the usage progresses as you age. What's important at 15,20,25, and beyond are different. Not different demographics but the same people as they age through the different demographics. In other words how consistent would the diffeent media options change with time....

</comment><comment><USER74> Another anecdote for file: I spoke with an early-twenty business student, also studying in Texas. Snapchat and GroupMe were their preferred chat programs.

I personally prefer WeChat for its Group Voice chat. This was developed in Shenzhen; Mandarin is notably tonal so voice is a selling point.

</comment><comment><USER75> I can see why group service is popular among teenage crowd these days. One of my friends who is in school has college wide fb group to ask questions about classes, etc. I have seen her mostly being active in groups when logged into fb.

</comment><comment><USER76> My response:

A 1980 Teenager's View on Social Media [https://medium.com/@brianstorms/a-1980-teenagers-view-of- soc...](https://medium.com/@brianstorms/a-1980-teenagers-view-of-social-media- eaf8a5fdbf6c)

</comment><comment><USER77> This is actually a really refreshing post. I have to give Yik Yak another try. Secret didn't do much for me. But its always important and interesting for peeps to see what's going on, even if we're getting old :)

</comment><comment><USER78> It is interesting to see that for example in Germany WhatsApp is really the most important chat and group discussion instrument -- ahead of all other messengers. I wonder where this difference comes from...?

<comment><USER79> For teenagers in Europe, WhatsApp is #1. As FB is used by their parents and grandparents, it got uncool.

But recently Snapchat is heading to get #1 as now their parents are using WhatsApp too.

The same happened with MySpace. FB is like the late MySpace, everyone is on it, mainly some late adopters still regularly post new baby & cat pics - <USER2> difference is FB might be too big to fail, and can innovate or buy new services (Instagram, WhatsApp).

</comment></comment><comment><USER80> Wow, this is the truth! I hope the product guys at these places are reading.

</comment><comment><USER81> I'm surprised that with all those less popular social networks listed, Google+ was not. I'm pretty sure Google+ has a higher user 'population' than YikYak, WhatsApp, GroupMe, etc.

<comment><USER82> WhatsApp has over 700 million users and I'd bet a much higher percentage of active users than G+ (although that is just a guess).

I have not even heard of the others though until now.

</comment></comment><comment><USER83> The Twitter point doesn't make much sense.

As a senior in high school, I see nearly everyone having a twitter account and using it pretty often. It's pretty popular.

</comment><comment><USER84> Reading this article makes me feel old. I'm just on my twenties and the only service mentioned in that article in which I have an account is WhatsApp.

</comment><comment><USER85> Just tried Yik Yak after reading this. In SF's FiDi, appears to be mostly dudes looking for gay hookups. Am I doing it wrong?

<comment><USER86> It just takes posts from 10 miles around your location. If you are in a location with primarily homosexual population, I'd imagine you'd get mostly posts like you did.

I live near a university, so all I see is drinking, smoking, classes, roommate drama, and hookups.

<comment><USER87> SF doesn't have a "primarily" gay population. It might be higher than other cities on average, but it's by no means the majority and certainly not in the financial district.

My guess is here there's isn't much for office workers to be sharing with strangers -- it's kind of a weird premise unless there's some specific city wide event like a parade or a terrorist attack. Thus the next logical reason for (gay male) strangers to interact is to hookup.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER88> Just shows how shrewd Zuck was in acquiring Instagram.

This post is exactly in line with what I see my daughter and her peers doing.

</comment><comment><USER89> I am curious that if they don't write things about them on FB, how could they find out who one is on FB?

</comment><comment><USER90> An _American_ Teenager's View on Social Media

There, much better now.

<comment> Anthony-G A _North_ American Teenager's View on Social Media

Even better. Though I'm sure someone from North America could improve on that title.

FWIW, I thought it was a very well-written piece which outlined some of the subjective pros and cons of various social media. As someone who doesn't spend any time on any of the social network sites and who barely uses a smart-phone, I found it to be quite informative.

Edit: After posting this comment, I used a search for the word "North" and saw that quite a few other commentators had already made the same observation.

<comment><USER91> American is predominantly used to mean a US national or more generally "a person born, raised, or living in the U.S."

Canadians, who are "North Americans," are predominantly culturally similar to Americans.

Mexicans, who are also "North Americans", are not culturally so similar to Americans.

So your deliberate "confusion" about the word American produced an even sillier result: "A North American (excluding Mexicans) Teenager's View on Social Media"

<comment> Anthony-G Fair enough. I tend to consider Mexico as Central America so I was thinking of Canada and the US as North America. For what it's worth, I live on the other side of the Atlantic - and it's been a long time since I did geography in primary school.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER92> While it's an interesting article, I think he's being a bit hyperbolic in translating his local experience out to a generalization.

This isn't simply a 19 year olds experience. It is a white, suburban, middle- class, male attending a conservative university in a culturally regressive state. If nothing else, he's about as radically distant from an urban minority as you could get to the point where I'd imagine it is really impossible for him to have any perspective into other demographics and how they use these tools. I value his opinion, but it's important to take it into context.

Atleast he attempts to hedge his lack of experience in his opening statement.

<comment><USER92> Ok mods, I'm concerned that I have made some valid criticisms on this article as have others in their comments, yet mine is being down modded into negatives.

I'm left feeling this is immature and punitive for a joke I made on a prior news posting where I complained about the down modding.

Would someone like to explain just how my criticism is so much more severe as to warrant attack over the other criticisms?

<comment><USER93> > attending a conservative university in a culturally regressive state

I didn't downvote you, but I feel like I could have without any guilt. Have you _been_ to Austin? Or any urban center in Texas? They are probably more conservative than Berkeley, but they're definitely blue areas. Especially Austin. I mean, Houston's mayor is a lesbian! See if you can pick out Dallas, Austin, and Houston on this map:

[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/be/2004_US_e...](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/be/2004_US_elections_purple_counties.png)

And substance aside, terms like "culturally regressive" are unnecessary and inflammatory. And your post has an overall dismissive attitude of someone who is just expressing himself. He makes it extremely clear that it's just his opinion.

So maybe there is a downvote brigade, but I'm not in it. And they're redundant if you ask me.

<comment><USER92> No. Honestly I haven't been to Austin and I have heard good things about it but I did spend a few years living in the DFW Metroplex area (Arlington and then later in Plano). I have on the other hand have had bad personal experiences with UT graduates being rather full of themselves clueless about the real world. As well as white middle-class 19 year olds thinking they're social media experts because they posted a blog post.

Texas in general has always left a bad taste in my mind and their political and religious exports don't do much to change my opinion.

I always love how Austin get's thrown out as some amazing counter to excuse the rest of the state.

<comment><USER94> >As well as white middle-class 19 year olds thinking they're social media experts because they posted a blog post.

From the article: >That being said, I'm not an expert at this by a long shot and I'm sure there will be data that disproves some of the points I make, but this is just what I've noticed.

He clearly states otherwise.

<comment><USER92> All that proves is that his Journalism instructor told him to be sure to include boilerplate CYA to deflect criticism of his article. If he really felt this way he wouldn't be so declarative of his opinions.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER95> 20 year old college student in the US here. He got a lot of things very right, but also from my experience some things very wrong:

Instagram: No one uses it. Maybe 10% of students have one and those that do spend little time on it.

Facebook: It's not as uncool as it sounds. If anything it's had a resurgence lately. Maybe people post less content to their profile these days, but post on each other's timelines and use the messaging system more than ever. As smartphones and connectivity continue to improve, there's less and less incentive to use texting over Facebook. Also, I don't know what he's talking about with groups. No one uses those.

Snapchat: I would say it is currently the biggest one. (People spend more _time_ on Facebook but _care_ more about Snapchat.) However it seems to be losing momentum at this point. Since introducing the story feature, there has been a constant and continuous shift away from the original, more personal uses and towards a more Twitter like document of daily occurrences through stories. Less back and forth dialogue, less creative art, etc. People are also fed up with ads and gimmicks like messaging and sending money (???).

GroupMe: Never heard of anyone using anything but Facebook for this purpose.

Venmo: Not sure if it really qualifies as a social network but it's trying to and it deserves mention. Everyone loves documenting their restaurant expenditures and there seems to be a strong culture of wittiness in generating the captions.

</comment><comment><USER96> This kid doesn't even know that when he uses WhatsApp or Instagram, he's using Facebook.

<comment><USER97> Facebook the product vs. Facebook the company.

</comment></comment><comment><USER98> I find this all exceedingly strange - why should we care about a teenager's opinions, right or wrong? Kids don't make money, and they spend relatively small amounts of parent/student-loan money. Moreover, all signs point to a difficult job market for new graduates, kids moving back home for extended periods, etc, so the argument that they will _soon_ spend money doesn't resonate. Why then is this demographic so coveted? Heck why do these kids have smartphones at all?

I begin to suspect that youth-obsessed culture is actually a temporary phenomena. The reason it happened in the 90's and 00's was that this was the dawn of the consumer internet, and college kids were the first adopters (a fact that is itself a confluence of educational theory and the enthusiasm/capability of computer science academics)

Against this, we could say that college kids are a better demo for this stuff because they are so _pure_ , in the sense that they aren't constrained by jobs or other income production - so they are at a magical junction between _articulate_ and _irresponsible_ , like having a society of our own "id"s running around. If we can please them in their primordial state, then surely that will have resonance in the hearts of the middle-aged who's youthful lusts still exist under rocky layers of life's harsh requirements.

</comment><comment><USER99> I like that he's less concerned with a company storing his Social Security Number (or credit card, name, address... things governments/companies ALREADY HAVE) than the photos and thoughts he's choosing to share only with his closest friends.

Dunno how to quote: I only know a handful of people (myself included) that believe Snapchat does delete your photos. Everyone else I know believes that Snapchat has some secret database somewhere with all of your photos on it. While I will save that debate for another day, it is safe to say that when photos are "leaked" or when there's controversy about security on the app, we honestly do not really care. We aren't sending pictures of our Social Security Cards here, we're sending selfies and photos with us having 5 chins</comment>


Things I'm not allowed to do anymore - <AUTHOR> http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1193

<comment><USER2> Somebody(geek) please reassure me that these 'changes in behavior' are not paramount to becoming a parent because this premise seemed pretty implicit throughout most items in this list. It's hard enough for me to grow up as is; it's especially harder if you still love being immature (yet playful) towards your peers and are older than twenty-two.

EDIT: I've been fired from a marketing firm for forgetting to remove my test word 'Poopy' from a Fortune500 company's web-site (running on WebLogic, yikes). No one knew the word was there for like a week since 'Poopy' was not an actual product it only showed up in their glossary. A week later I told my boss after releasing the next update and removing the test word: she flipped out, told the client, and fired me that following Monday because word got around their (the client's) IT department resulting in someone digging up a cached copy of their web-site's glossary and passing it on to someone higher up the corporate ladder. I'm an idiot for using such a _vulgar_ test word but I had no business working there (in a marketing firm), let alone no business editing 14,000-20,000 lines of XML. (seriously, there were about 3-4 XML files that long) In retrospect though, I'm glad it happened because now (then) I finally had a reason to learn Mercurial (or why version-control is important and how branching could have saved my ass) :P

<comment><USER3> Opposite - having kids IMHO keeps you young, and in touch with your playful side.

One of the reasons I had kids early was to do that. I didn't want to be one of those old parents who has already "grown up" and lost all touch with fun.

<comment><USER4> > having kids IMHO keeps you young

Let me guess, you think having a mortgage keeps you thinking independently and on your toes, too?

It's amazing the conclusions people will arrive at to rationalize their fucked up thinking.

<comment><USER3> I'm not seeing the parallel there.

Having a mortgage is pretty much the most efficient way to save money for the future. But I've no idea why that's related to having kids.

And what's fucked up about having kids young in life? It makes a ton of sense when you think about it.

<comment><USER5> The problem with a mortgage is it tends to increase consumption. Most people are fine renting a fairly small apartment relative to their needs, but as soon as they are buying a place they start thinking about having an extra rooms just in case etc.

<comment><USER3> I don't think that's the case. Mortgage is just borrowing against your future worth. If some people over estimate that then it's their own problem.

The problem is usually silly people borrowing far more than they can afford, and lenders trying to push people into borrowing more than they can afford. But that's not a problem with mortgages per se.

Renting is ok if you like throwing money away, or need to move often.

<comment><USER6> I don't understand the throwing money away idea about renting. Are you anticipation appreciation (good luck for the foreseeable future)? Is it the home mortgage deduction you're so excited about? For most people, unless they're _sure_ they're gonna be in their home for a long time (10+ years maybe?) I'm not sure how purchasing is worse than renting.

<comment><USER3> In the UK house prices have risen well. And personally I like staying the same place for at least 5 years.

<comment><USER6> I think a desire/plan to stay in one place for an extended period of time _is_ a good reason to purchase a home. The best reason really. But I think if you're pretty uncertain about whether you'll want to spend 10+ years in 1 house it makes more sense to rent. And I really don't understand so many people have bought into this meme that renting is "throwing money away". The facts just don't seem to support that conclusion.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> "I shall not place a supply of "Sharpie" permanent markers in any whiteboard trays."

Sharpies are _fun._ People take the "permanent" label much too seriously. At work we have picture badges, at one point I was drawing mustaches on other peoples badges and watching them freak out.

Alcohol will erase Sharpies as long as the surface is non-porous. (as they say in manuals, try in an inconspicuous place first ;-).

One of my victims ran over to the computer room after I clued him in on the alcohol trick. (This was quite a while ago when we had tape drives and there were squeeze bottles of alcohol laying around for cleaning tape heads.) He grabbed the first bottle, squirted his badge, rubbed it, and _nothing happened._ Then he sniffed the liquid and realized he had grabbed a bottle of water instead of alcohol. Bonus.

</comment><comment><USER8> "I will not dial someone at random and conference them in to the building's intercom system." LOL

Thanks for the laughs. Congratulations on being irreplaceable enough to be able to build such a list. From the sound of things, the list will grow, too.

</comment><comment><USER9> For a lot of these I was reading and thinking "oh please tell me more".

<comment><USER10> A few years ago someone gave me a stash of self-adhesive metal labels intended for vending machines. They are imprinted "INSERT 25 CENTS" and have coin slots cut into them. I'm sorry to say I have as yet not stuck them inside the elevators and sent round a company-wide memo: "Due to new cost-saving initiatives and in an effort to promote physical fitness..."

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Possibly got the idea from this book. (Depending on how old his kids are.)

[http://www.amazon.com/17-Things-Not-Allowed- Anymore/dp/03758...](http://www.amazon.com/17-Things-Not-Allowed- Anymore/dp/0375835962)

We have it and it's mildly funny, there is one line that makes our kids erupt into hysterical laughter everytime.

<comment><USER12> It made me think of 'The 213 things Skippy is no longer allowed to do in the U.S. Army' <http://skippyslist.com/list/>

<comment><USER13> Excellent link :)

 _129\. The Microsoft ® "Dancing Paperclip" is not authorized to countermand any orders._

:)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> The list was a _lot_ shorter when I started:

* Don't eat the dirt

* Don't piss on the chief's tent (when he's home)

* Don't sleep under the horse.

* The brown pills are not specifically good.

</comment><comment><USER15> Likely the ancestral inspiration: <http://skippyslist.com/list/>

<comment><USER16> This was what I thought the link would be from the title :)

Completely and totally off topic, but the first time I read that I laughed so hard I was crying.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Too bad about the cuckoo clock. We have one right outside our meeting rooms.

</comment><comment><USER4> > cow-orker's

Grow up.</comment>


Wanted: An Honest Debate About Trade - <AUTHOR> http://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2016/07/30/wanted_an_honest_debate_about_trade_1677.html <comment><USER2> Biggest barriers for trade, like tariffs and import fees, were dramatically cut in trade agreements decades ago. They are not significant barrier for trade anymore.

Modern trade agreements like TTIP are mostly about rules, regulations and property rights. Countries must give up sovereignty and harmonize their governments if we want to marginally increase international trade. We are paying higher price for smaller gains.</comment>


Predictions Scorecard - <AUTHOR> http://rodneybrooks.com/predictions-scorecard-2019-january-01/ <comment><USER2> > A flying car can be purchased by any US resident if they have enough money. > - No Earlier Than 2036

I'm pretty sure you can already buy a helicopter or even a private jet.

<comment><USER3> Helicopters and jets aren't street-legal wheeled vehicles.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> A few of my own, from various notes jotted down over the years (adjust to to reflect present realities):

A new smartphone form factor -- most likely a smaller, thicker (but less dense) palm-fitting form factor with rounded edges and surfaces: 2020

First commercial lab grown meat product: 2022

First detection of free Oxygen or other signs of life in an extra-solar planetary atmosphere: 2024

Major social upheavals against income inequality in the US and western Europe, with possible economic depression: 2024

Electric vehicle sales overtake gasoline vehicles: 2025

Last coal plant in the world decommissioned: 2030

Next manned lunar landing: 2040

First man on Mars: NIML (due to worldwide socioeconomic decline)

<comment><USER5> JUST was hoping to have lab-grown chicken nuggets for sale by the end of 2018, "subject to regulatory considerations."

[https://www.just-food.com/news/just-planning-to-launch- lab-g...](https://www.just-food.com/news/just-planning-to-launch-lab-grown- chicken-product-this-year_id140252.aspx)

Regarding Mars, I think at this point it depends more on SpaceX internet satellite profits than on overall socioeconomic conditions.</comment></comment>


By Extension, Chrome Battles Firefox - <AUTHOR> http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/12/10/chrome-firefox/ <comment><USER2> I wrote a Firefox extension that has (significantly) more than a million downloads. I turned over maintenance to another developer because the Firefox extension platform is so difficult to work with. If Google has really made extension development comparatively easier, it will be a great boon for Chrome.

I have only glanced over the docs, but I suspect that the Chrome extension APIs don't have comparably extensive access to internal browser code as Firefox extensions do. For most extensions this won't matter, but for certain uses Firefox will probably stay ahead in this area, at least for a while.

<comment><USER3> XUL is a double-edged sword. It allows deep integration between extensions and the browser, but you pay for it in performance.

Chrome has positioned itself towards performance at the cost of extensibility. Thus I expect it will be difficult for them to allow true extensions in the way Firefox does without giving up some of their trademark speed.

<comment><USER2> In addition to XUL, Firefox exposes many internal APIs to javascript extensions via XPCOM. These hooks allow for powerful modifications to browser behavior.

So this also shows a trade-off with Google simplifying extension development at the cost of lowering the degree of customization that is possible.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Another big win for Chrome is that there is no approval process to get on their addon site as opposed to Mozilla. Mozilla can take weeks to months to get out of the sandbox (although to be fair, Mozilla is trying quickly to better the experience with a new self hosting option and making it somewhat easier for users to find sandboxed addons), and unless your addon gets some secondary approval, you need to go through the process again to push up updates.

</comment><comment><USER5> I don't know how easy this would be in Chrome, but with Firefox + Jetpack, you get a full fledged Image Editor in 14 LOC.

However, the extension review process is the real pull for me. I've waited between 2 weeks and 2 entire months for my Firefox extension to get accepted, so I'll take instantaneous anyday.

</comment><comment><USER6> The only thing they haven't nailed is the Extensions site: which isn't wonderful to navigate quite yet.

<comment><USER7> They haven't got extensions working on mac yet either.

<comment><USER6> They are, just disabled for the moment due to a security risk

Try: [http://asia.cnet.com/blogs/sinobytes/post.htm?id=63015336...](http://asia.cnet.com/blogs/sinobytes/post.htm?id=63015336&scid=rvhm_ms&y=1)

<comment><USER8> Not due to a security risk, just a release management mistake.

[https://groups.google.com/group/chromium- extensions/msg/6247...](https://groups.google.com/group/chromium- extensions/msg/6247d2b4e89f2bc9)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Chrome's TOS states that Google retains the right to uninstall any extensions in the clients' computers.

</comment><comment><USER10> I'm amazed there isn't a single mention of Jetpack in the article.

Neither does it mention how ultimately gimped Chrome extensions are. UI modifications like vertical tabs, for instance, would be _impossible_ in the Chrome model.

Ultimately, I think a combined full-fledged extension mechanism + Jetpack is the best way. Provide the ease for those that can do with a limited API, and the power for those that need it.

<comment><USER11> Yes. I've dabbled a bit with Jetpack and I think it has incredible potential. Mozilla's plan is for Jetpack to eventually replace the current extension mechanism once ir reaches full functionality.</comment></comment>


Visual Guide to NoSQL Systems - <AUTHOR> http://i.imgur.com/VsqWW.png

<comment><AUTHOR> From Nathan Hurst's Blog: <http://blog.nahurst.com/visual-guide-to-nosql- systems></comment>


Ask HN: IDE versus Text Editor? - <AUTHOR> My question is this: if you invest the time in getting very proficient in a Text Editor like Emacs or vi, what type of return do you get? Please include an estimated number in your answer(ie. I am 10%, 50%, 500% more productive developing Python/Java/Ruby/other using Emacs versus IDLE/Eclipse/Arachno/other).
I continually go back and forth between using an IDE versus using Emacs/vi. I keep giving the latter two a few hours each here and there but haven't invested the time it takes to make it worthwhile. Most of what I write is Python, followed by PHP, JavaScript & SQL.
EDIT: Also if you've written your own editor/IDE, please mention that(it's one option I've been prototyping with). <comment><USER2> It depends on the language. With Java, I get a huge return because the IDE can take care of so many mundane things like getters and setters. Java also sometimes has odd names used in its standard library (for example, you use queue.offer() and queue.poll() to add and remove things rather than something like 'enqueue' and 'dequeue' or the standard push/pop. An IDE prevents me from having to deal with looking it up constantly.

With Python and Ruby, I find a text editor sufficient and usually I'm doing web work with those languages which is perfect for vim/emacs over SSH.

PHP tends to have a huge library of builtin functions and it uses positional arguments (you can't call a function with arguments out of order denoted by keyword like python). I've found an IDE to be helpful for PHP in the past. SQL isn't a big language. As such, I can't see an IDE helping. JavaScript, with libraries becoming the preferred way to code, doesn't seem like an IDE could do much unless it understood the library.

<comment><USER3> I agree too. It really comes down to what helps you the most and what the best tool for the job is for you.

I've seen people use Eclipse for Perl, which make very little sense to me. Sure, you can use it, but personally I'm at least 10x - 15x more productive if I use vi.

But for Java, Eclipse is awesome. The ability to find what methods are available and other great tools Eclipse provides blows a lot plugins/extensions out of the water.

There is no one editor to the rule them all... :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> First: If you think you want to write your own editor, you've answered your own question. You need to learn emacs, vi, or TextMate immediately, because these are editors that make it very easy to change their behavior by writing your own custom extensions.

I wouldn't write my own editor until I had learned _all three_ of those editors. After that... I still wouldn't write my own editor. ;) Spend your energy on a problem that urgently needs solving.

Now to your question: First, I can't answer it, because I'm not really a user of any IDE. Second, I think it is ill-posed. It's like asking which is more productive: using emacs, using Ruby, or using Excel. If you're an expert in one of these tools, you can use it to replace the others to some extent (I just encountered a programmer who was using Excel to compose hundreds of SQL queries. I have to admit that it works, although it would never occur to me to do this; I'd reach for emacs instead or, failing that, Ruby or Perl.) But, in general, these three tools are designed for different problems, and each tool has its sweet spot.

There are languages for which the vast majority of programmers use an IDE. (I'd probably use one if I had to do any Java programming; Mac development in Objective C might tempt me to use XCode to write code; I'm pretty sure .NET programmers use Microsoft tools.) But you become a different kind of programmer when you use something like emacs instead. For one thing, your text editor can be used to edit _anything_ that is made of text: Python, PHP, Javascript, SQL, C, Ruby, Perl, Lisp, Haskell, Erlang, Java, shell scripts, config files, HTML, CSS, LaTeX, directory listings, version-control logs, long emails, documentation, outlines, to-do lists, blog entries, Wikipedia articles... _ad infinitum_. If you improve your emacs skills, your skill at editing _all of these things_ increases. If a new language comes along, or a radical new way of using an old language, you needn't be one of those tiresome people who sits on the sidelines, complaining, because the New Thing _lacks IDE support_ : You've got an editor that works fine with the New Thing, and which you _already know how to use_ , and you can incrementally improve that editor by teaching it some New Thing macros, and before long someone (maybe you!) will write some emacs modes to support the New Thing.

Meanwhile, emacs skills do not become obsolete. The editor is quite possibly older than you, and will almost certainly live as long as you. It's cross- platform and open-source. Because it is not tightly tied to one language, platform, version-control system, workflow, or vendor, it has transcended and outlived all of these things.

<comment><AUTHOR> >For one thing, your text editor can be used to edit anything that is made of text:Python, PHP, Javascript, SQL, C, Ruby, Perl, Lisp, Haskell, Erlang, Java, shell scripts, config files, HTML,

Yes, I get that. Funny, I actually do use Excel a lot to edit a lot of these things and don't think I could improve my productivity in any of them more than 10 or 20%. My real question is how much it would help me in the language I spend 80% of my time in(Python now), versus an IDE that was built specifically to help people writing Python.

But you make a good case and I'll probably go harder into emacs(I do use vim a fair amount now, and will try TextMate when I get that mac.

<comment><USER5> > Funny, I actually do use Excel a lot to edit a lot of these things

How is that even possible? I'm not trying to be snarky or anything, I seriously want to know what your workflow is. It never would have occurred to me to use Excel for editing SQL queries; and as for Lisp or config file or HTML... how?

<comment><AUTHOR> A lot of what I do is taking data from one source(ie an HTML table) and throwing it into a database. Sometimes cutting/pasting into excel, then quickly formatting it, is easier than writing a regex to get it done.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> The bottom line is that you need to work with something that you can extend. To suggest that the IDE/Editor designer is going to be able to anticipate all of your needs is silly. Instead, learn something like Emacs which you can extend with Emacs Lisp. Heck, Eclipse is fine if you take the time to learn how to write Eclipse plugins. Eventually you will reach a point where you start running into unique situations for which you require a unique solution. Being able to code your own is the only way to go.

</comment><comment><USER7> Vim for the win!

I'm not a vim expert, I actually know the minimum you need to do work, and I've found it very good, but I hove almost no experience with other editors or IDEs. I do mostly python and I don't really need an IDE for that. Despite its learning curve, I've found vim to be really easy to use, once you get used to it, your muscle memory does all the work for you. Considering the time you work in an editor/IDE, i suggest just sticking to the one that makes your hands hurt the least.

</comment><comment><USER8> I'll put in another vote for Vim, but I'm biased, as I'm a systems guy by trade. Losing my skills with vim would be death, because it's often the only working editor on a truly hosed machine.

<comment><USER5> Nope, that would be ed :) I had to use ed to rescue an OpenBSD VPN endpoint a year or so ago.

<comment><USER8> Point. I've had to use ed as well, but generally speaking, in all but the most dire of circumstances, vi will run -- I think on Solaris that vi is still statically linked. Even so, ed works very simmilarly to vi (including movement, search, save, and so on), so it's a lot easier to fix something with ed if you're a vi user. :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I used to develop in emacs/jbuilder now I am fully in eclipse. I miss multiple copy buffers and good keyboard shortcuts. To me, the value added by the IDE - autocomplete, extra method, generate getters and setters, find references completely, utterly and totally blow text editors out of the water. I wouldn't waste my time reinventing the wheel on a new text editor. If I were super motivated, I'd write eclipse plugins to do whatever I needed. However, I work on an eclipse RCP based project to pay the bills so I already had the learning curve financed by my job. That being said, I find vanilla eclipse sufficient for most of my needs.

</comment><comment><USER10> I use vim and do R, ruby, and python mostly. Still, recently I've spent more time with IDEs and now I can appreciate them. Netbeans is a very good RoR IDE. I'd prefer it over Vim. for Python, the IDE that I like (and current favorite) is IDEA. Basically it's a matter of how big your project is; with 10s of thousands lines of code, I prefer an IDE, and also when you are learning the language or reading someone else's code.

Often, I don't have but a terminal, and there vim shines.

</comment><comment><USER11> I always bounce around between Emacs, Vim and TextMate I've tried IDEs but their typically not native code, have shitty keybindings, are slow as dog crap and need to be custmized with entire plugins rather a few lines of elisp, python or whatever.

If I had to choose between the 3 I'd go with Emacs and I don't know how much more productive but well in the range of "enough". We code everyday in mostly the same place so learn your tool and enjoy it.

</comment><comment><USER12> Two main issues come to mind:

1\. Project size. It's usually easier to get an IDE to build your project, parse any errors, and show the right lines of code in a debugger, than it is to get a good compile/fix/debug cycle setup in Emacs.

2\. Language complexity. There's a lot of variance between languages on what your text editor will support in terms of parsing, symbolics browsing (e.g. a class browser, function popup, etc.), and what you need for that language.

<comment><USER13> emacs's integration with C/C++'s compile/build/debug cycle is insanely good. M-x compile and M-x gdb work perfectly.

Integration with Common Lisp (SBCL at least) and Python are both also excellent.

I can't speak about other languages/systems but all the ones I use extensively have really tight emacs integration. Perhaps Java integration is weak?

<comment><USER12> Compared to how well you're coddled in something like Netbeans/eclipse, it's tough to be satisfied in Emacs. They'll search the entire classpath (not just the classes you've written) and find every match that could be usable in the given situation (according to your import declarations), using your project definition for class file resolution.

On C++, it's harder when you start using templates. Seems only systems with tightly-integrated compilers do a decent job here.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I know I'm on the outside with this, but I don't even think I'd want to program without an IDE anymore. Not only do they save time, but I find they also save MISTAKES which one of the most valuable things out there. For example, how many times have you had that one variable or reserved word misspelled by one character and it took you how long to find it?

</comment><comment><USER15> I use IDE's that have vi keyboard mappings so I get the best of both worlds. Visual Studio and Eclipse both have vi plugins.

<comment><USER16> Same here. I highly recommend WingIDE for Python development. The vim mode is pretty complete and they have been responsive to any bugs I report.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> If you are interested in text editors, you should read The Craft of Text Editing (available at <http://www.finseth.com/craft/>). In spite of its Emacs- centric seeming subtitle, it discusses a lot of the basics of representing text and implementing an editor.

<comment><USER12> Interesting read, but I _have_ to quote this part:

      2.4.4 Fancy Modems

      High-speed modems (9600 bps and higher) are starting to become quite common.

<comment><USER18> someday... that 14.4 US Robotics modem will be _mine_!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> to increase productivity, you may need to 'do without'

do without mouse and hard-to-reach keys (F1-12, arrows, numpads)

i found ide is about using mouse and using those keys (like F5? to run) etc ... but i didn't use much ide _shrug_

in vim, you can take those keys plus backspace, alt and even esc (i map it to ^C because ^] hurts, not because of emacs) ... also xmodmap caps to ctrl

emacs still requires at least a meta key so that adds complexity. vim cheats by using modes :D

with fewer keys, the intensity = (strokes / #key) is high and that may lead to higher productivity

oh and of course, touch typing really helps especially the often untrained part like numbers and symbols.

i used 'typing tutor for mac' and trained streams of letters, numbers and symbols ... like 'aJ8@9)x|W,~2'

<comment><USER9> You can setup keyboard shortcuts to be whatever you want in eclipse.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> I am 10x more productive developing Java using IntelliJ IDEA versus anything else :-)

<comment><AUTHOR> its funny how this is the only response that included a hard number estimate. i take that to mean the improvement from a text editor versus an ide is not an order of magnitude.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> emacs's "keyboard macros" feature is something I've not seen in any IDE and when you master it and start getting creative with it you can save insane amounts of time. Basically any time you need to make a bunch of changes of the same pattern to a file you can teach emacs how to make the change and then tell emacs to make the change X more times to the file. When you are accustomed to this feature and you need it and it's not there it's INSANELY frustrating! But then you remember you can just start up emacs so it's not really a big deal at all. :)

<comment><USER21> I could have sworn that most "programming" editors support macros, just not to the extent that emacs does.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Does anyone compile Android from source? - <AUTHOR> I have a HTC 626s and I absolutely hate the HTC sense for this phone. I really want to put stock Android on it but I don't have a machine capable of building it and also no experience compiling large projects.
1.) would anyone be willing to build M or N for a 626s?
2.) if not, what's your experience been building Android? <comment><USER2> Build it on some cloud server.

I built my own images for the emulator and an Odroid mini computer, but never for any phone. The source tree is some 9 or 10 GBs, and I realized somewhere around the 2 GB mark that cloning it on my home connection is a waste of time and bandwidth.

So I built them on a Linode 4GB server. Network and hard disk speeds were magnitudes better than anything at home. Took around 4-5 hours of reading and understanding the process (see links below) + 2-3 hours for each build.

Removing vendor apps from the image is a simple matter of removing them from the correct config files. Since HTC seems to be a good open source citizen and makes their source code changes available, removing vendor apps and rebuilding an image is probably not very difficult.

[1] [http://source.android.com/source/index.html](http://source.android.com/source/index.html)

[2] Building Custom ROM (2 videos): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_H4AlQaNa0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_H4AlQaNa0)

[3] Karim Yaghmour's Embedded Android series (4 videos): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLUXPxxJc5c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLUXPxxJc5c)

</comment><comment><USER3> I don't think you understand what you're asking someone to do.

You don't just download the Android source, type "make," and get something that would work on a HTC 626s. The biggest hindrance is finding the hardware drivers for newer versions of Android. That's why a lot of devices fall out of support, the hardware manufacturer never updated the driver to the latest version of Android.

Best case scenario either the old drivers are still compatible with newer versions of Android (but you lose functionality) or the hardware manufacturer has updated drivers (which you can normally get from a different phone's flash dump).

You may want to ask over at forum.xda-developers.com for your device or manufacturer. But what you're asking for is a lot more involved than you seem to think it is, and has little to do with being able to compile Android.

</comment><comment><USER4> I plan to build - at least once in my lifetime - Android from scratch. I think this article[1] could help a lot.

[1] [http://xda-university.com/as-a-developer/getting-started- bui...](http://xda-university.com/as-a-developer/getting-started-building- android-from-source)</comment>


The Annoying Site - <AUTHOR> https://theannoyingsite.com <comment><USER2> Yeah didn't expect to get internet mugged on hn but there it was.</comment>


Shezhen: The Silicon Valley of Hardware (Full Documentary) - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY <comment><AUTHOR> This is different from the 17min Part 1 documentary that was submitted some time ago. It is about an hour long

<comment><USER2> First part was slightly disappointing (all the usual stuff), the full one turned out great though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> This should be front page.</comment>


Parts of New Orleans Are Flooded. Worse Is on the Way - <AUTHOR> https://slate.com/business/2019/07/new-orleans-is-flooded-in-some-neighborhoods-and-a-storm-surge-is-coming.html <comment><USER2> New Orleans is always under the danger of flood, and it basically depends on pumps out to Lake Pontchartrain to survive. This map ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans#/media/File:New_Or...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans#/media/File:New_Orleans_Levee_System.svg)) Wikipedia shows how danger the situation is.</comment>