Behind the Pixel: Google's First Real Threat to Apple's iPhone - <AUTHOR> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-04/behind-the-pixel-google-s-first-real-threat-to-apple-s-iphone <comment><USER3> And yet not a single hard detail in the article as to why the headline might be true. For going on ten years we've seen the "iPhone killers" come and go, and this article does nothing to tell me why this time it will be different. Perhaps because it won't be.

Of what very few details the article outlines, they just go on about nifty hardware. Have we not learned by now that cool hardware still sucks when hamstrung by crappy software? (A Samsung logo popped in my head while writing that, don't know why.) Now, Google is no Samsung, but they're a long way from Apple or even Microsoft on the UX front.

(EDIT: the Pixel phones could be all that, but I wouldn't know it because I'm currently content with iPhones and have paid no attention to Pixel. Point is, this article does nothing to relieve my ignorance, which is why I clicked on the thing to begin with.)

<comment><USER4> >Now, Google is no Samsung, but they're a long way from Apple or even Microsoft on the UX front.

Not sure I agree with this. I've been on android for a while, so I'm sure I'm biased, but stock AOSP Android is pretty much perfect for me. Very minimal and aesthetically beautiful, but still powerful and customizable.

<comment><USER5> Honestly, in terms of staff UI design cred Android is in better place than iOS right now.

With the Sidekick, PalmOS, and then Material Design, Matías Duarte has been consistently at the forefront of mobile UI design.

Jony Ive is probably the most brilliant consumer electronics hardware designer in the world, but I have yet to see any indication that he has any idea how to lead a platform UI design project. I had issues with Scott Forstall's style, but he was at least leading the charge _somewhere_.

In my opinion, force click, Siri, 3D wallpapers, etc, have not been major coups in terms of UI finesse. At best Apple is in a holding pattern right now, I haven't seen any indication that they're pushing the state of the art outside of the hardware. The animations keep getting flashier and smoother, but that's not really UI design.

I thought Ive's strong understanding of design methodology would be enough, but I think maybe software design requires a different way of thinking. I don't know.

<comment><USER6> iOS is in a tough position, the road of incremental changes is coming to an end. The icon-based home screen is showing it's age and will need a revolution rather than an evolution. You can kinda see Apple dipping it toes into the widget arena with the notifications area, yet they're probably hesitant to remake the whole home screen and risk alienating their current users. Tech savvy people won't mind a new home screen concept but for the "dad's and mom's out" there it might be a tough sell.

Apple's leadership in UI design the last couple of years has been a little lackluster. While they seem to be able to iterate, with a few missteps, I'm less sure about their capability to get a whole revamp done right.

The talent is surely there but the question is whether the leadership and willing to take the right risks is. It's going to be interesting going forward, I'm guessing they will have to introduce something widget/tile -ish in the next phone

<comment><USER7> > The icon-based home screen is showing it's age and will need a revolution > rather than an evolution.

Why? It is easy, intuitive, and used by millions of people.

Change for changes sake?

<comment><USER6> Glanceable information on the home screen is useful so users don't have to open every app, it also changes the home screen from being just "an launcher" to potentially provide useful information that you might need rather then being "just a launcher". It's just "one step less" in some scenarios.

Notifications are great for things that need your attention but the home screen becomes a little more of a seredipious view of app information that can increase the usefulness and engagement with an app

<comment><USER8> I think right now using the notifications screen for this 'at a glance' info and using the home screen for launching full apps, accomplishes the goal you are seeking.

I would love to see the iPad interface evolve a bit and not look so much like my phone. I don't feel like they are using all that space as elegantly as they could be.

<comment><USER9> It's getting there, but it's not ideal yet. At a glance means I don't have to do anything but glance. To see the widgets now, you have to wake up the phone and then swipe right.

<comment><USER10> On recent iPhones, waking up the phone just means picking it up. The swipe right is still an issue, though; it'd be nice if they could get rid of that. (Maybe default to the widgets view if there are no notifications?)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> What is the draw here?

I have been running my Nexus 5 into the ground (soldered on a new power button when the original broke) in anticipation of the next Nexus phone. Pixel is no Nexus.

Seriously, what does this have that the year-old Nexus 6P and 5X don't, other than incremental hardware improvements? And a massive price hike? Why should I buy this?

(Seriously, Google? You want $650 for a phone with a 1080p screen? I know there's benefits to a lower resolution but then why not drop the price? It's ridiculous.)

My perception is that Google no longer knows what it's doing. Reference Allo for an even better example. The company can coast on their existing products but only for so long.

<comment><USER12> > what does this have that the year-old Nexus 6P and 5X don't, other than > incremental hardware improvements?

As someone who owns a 5X:

\- The Pixel is a premium 5" phone, not a budget one. It has a flagship SoC rather than a mid-tier SoC.

\- The camera is better and more responsive (the camera on the N5X is slow and annoying).

\- The body isn't plastic, which means there will be less issues with heat and CPU throttling than on the N5X.

\- I can finally get a phone with a reasonable amount of storage and no bloat. The 5X only went up to 32GB and had no expansion. Alternatives from Samsung etc. are mostly carrier locked, unrootable and stuffed with OEM overlays.

\- There's no camera bump, so it can sit on flat surfaces less awkwardly.

\- They actually mentioned this phone during the announcement, unlike the 5X last year. They might actually pay it some attention in the future.

<comment><USER13> As always the most compelling thing about the phone is Google's support - <USER2> releases and minimal carrier bloat. You have a nice list of positives and I'm not disputing them.

But the feature list for what is now Googles _top_ phone is underwhelming. 4 GB of RAM is barely adequate - it should be 6 GB like the other Snapdragon 821 flagship. No water proofing? That's the new black. Bottom-facing speakers? Complete regression from the Nexus 6. Including a smoking camera but no optical image stabilization? Make up your mind - is it a digital camera competitor or not?

And frankly since there's no waterproofing there's no excuse for a fixed battery and no sd-card slot. Even some waterproof phones offer those features now. Google needs to blow Apple away with features rather than aping the latest iphone.

<comment><USER12> > 4 GB of RAM is barely adequate

I'm not disagreeing with you but what makes you say this? I've never owned a phone with more than 2GB of RAM and I'm not sure what I'm missing out on.

> no optical image stabilization

I trust a software company like Google with EIS, particularly given their work with HDR+. I owned an iPhone 7 for about a week and loved the stabilisation Google's app did on my Motion Stills.

> Google needs to blow Apple away with features rather than aping the latest > iphone.

The impression I got from the announcement is that that's what they see their assistant being. Personally that doesn't win me over at all but we'll see how it goes. I could see my mother and her friends all wanting the phone that can talk to them (and it looks more impressive than Siri).

<comment><USER13> > I've never owned a phone with more than 2GB of RAM and I'm not sure what I'm > missing out on.

It's Linux under the hood which will always make use of more memory, but our phones are slowly migrating towards service platforms. When my phone is fully kitted out playing Ingress with friends I'm running Slack, Glympse, Zello, team-specific app(s), Ingress and maps. I want the device snappily switching between and/or giving cycles to all those apps as needed without being forced to save state off to my flash storage which is a wasting asset.

I would imagine VR apps will be even more hungry with the large and complex objects and interactions modeled and displayed.

On EIS yup if that replaces OIS I'm fine with it. The assistant may be really cool but it won't remain a google-exclusive for long and it doesn't justify a (in my mind) $200-$300 premium for the phone.

I'll probably pick up the pixel XL when the sales start but as someone who has been an Android acolyte since my developer's edition G1 came in the mail this is not a compelling upgrade for me from the Nexus 6, particularly at this price.

<comment><USER14> >> I've never owned a phone with more than 2GB of RAM and I'm not sure what I'm missing out on.

> It's Linux under the hood which will always make use of more memory,

Linux won't really be the beneficiary of all the extra RAM in this case. The motivation behind the extra RAM is Java.

It is well known (i.e. researched) that garbage collection system performance is heavily dependent on free RAM. You typically want around 4x the amount of your peak memory usage to keep the garbage collector speed reasonable. The more free RAM, the better the performance.

[http://sealedabstract.com/wp- content/uploads/2013/05/Screen-...](http://sealedabstract.com/wp- content/uploads/2013/05/Screen-Shot-2013-05-14-at-10.15.29-PM.png)

But having 4x has been a real challenge for mobile and Android over the years, especially as people want to do more and more with the phones. It also didn't help that Dalvik and ART are new ground-up implementations of the Java VM which means a lot of optimizations for garbage collection needed to be reimplemented from scratch.

The lack of needing to support a garbage collector is a big reason Apple can get away with shipping far less RAM in their phones which in turn helps keep their profit margins high.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I think it is just me but I find this 'book me a concert and fancy dinner' schtick rather boring. May be well off people are so busy and book these things so often that these virtual assistant really save time if price is of no concern to them.

<comment><USER16> Does anybody actually use these virtual assistants? They seem like the bluetooth dongle of the mid-2000s - friends wouldn't let friends use them. Is it just for people who drive? Or will there be a tipping point when it won't seem so arrogant barking commands on the subway or in a quiet office?

<comment><USER17> Every alarm, timer, and reminder I set (on my phone), are set by voice.

I chose it because "Set an alarm for 8am" really is the best interface to interact with that subsystem.

<comment><USER18> I think parent is talking more about:

"Please buy tickets to concert"

"Front row tickets to concert purchased for $500"

"Wait no, buy the cheapest tickets!"

"Cancelling order! Purchased last row tickets for $10"

"Only $10? Well maybe I can spend a little more an not be in the last row"

etc

<comment><USER19> This is exactly the kind of exasperating dialogue I've had with underwhelming organic assistants too. It is not a problem confined to machines. Ergo, the next step in virtual personal assistants is learning your preferences and being able to apply them. It's not hard to imagine the following exchange:

"Alexa, book me a flight to Sydney for Wednesday"

Alexa knows that I'm in Melbourne, that I always fly economy class on flights under three hours, have a strong preference for Oneworld airlines, fly direct whenever possible, and like to fly in the mornings except between 8am or 10am on weekdays.

"I found three flights on Wednesday that match your preferences. On your kitchen screen now. Which one shall I book?"

The next development after that would be intermodal transport scheduling and calendar awareness: "Alexa, book me travel for the Sydney board meeting". "Here's an itinerary that matches your diary and preferences."

<comment><USER20> That would be lovely, but there's no way that's the next step. The next step is "I booked a flight with our GreatDeal™ Partner [and you're paying more than if you had used a discount booking site]"

<comment><USER19> I'm not so cynical, in large part because I think you could develop an Alexa skill _right now_ that does most of what I described.

However, that is besides the point. This was just an illustration of what is possible if your VPA is a preference-aware negotiation agent.

Of course you are free to choose a closed platform, but it doesn't have to be that way.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> I don't like Google because they're gonna use my data against me.

I don't like Apple because it's a walled garden and millions other reasons.

I don't like Samsung because they bloat Android.

I don't like Huawei because I don't trust the Chinese government to not do stuff to it.

I don't like LG and HTC because the smartphone market is slipping away from them.

Am I just getting old?

<comment><USER22> I'd kill for an actual linux phone. I hear good things about Ubuntu's phone, but I've yet to try it.

<comment><USER23> Purism are working on a Debian phone! [https://puri.sm/](https://puri.sm/)

(I wish them luck...)

I bought the BQ Ubuntu tablet. I hate to say it, but it's terrible. You have to set up a cloud account with Canonical to download or update apps (no reason given). Most of the apps are pretty bad. It's constantly pinging YouTube and news websites to show me stuff I don't care about, and can't turn off. No easy way to set up a VPN. No CalDAV, CardDAV. Difficult to imagine Shuttleworth himself using one.

Fine for watching films on airplanes, but very little else.

<comment><USER24> > No easy way to set up a VPN.

That's not true, it's right there in the network settings. I use it. Maybe it just doesn't support the type of VPN you want to use?

<comment><USER23> I stand corrected!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> The corporate structure of Alphabet does not make sense to me.

Nest was broken out as a peer to Google, but now apparently hardware is using Nest staff and expertise, but hardware is part of Google.

And apparently this new hardware team is going whole-hog after the smartphone market, which is WAY larger than thermostats and web cams. But Nest is an Alphabet sub, and hardware is under Google.

And Android needs a "firewall" to protect existing hardware vendor relationships from the new hardware team. But both Android and hardware remain under Google, with YouTube and Search.

And there are 2 separate Alphabet subs for biosciences, and 2 separate subs for finance.

It doesn't look like it's implementing any sort of coherent strategy. Aside from company politics, why are some programs peers to Google, and others are subsidiaries of Google?

<comment><USER26> I recall news that many of the developers at Nest were basically moving to Google Hardware. There's a valid question on whether or not Nest will even produce anything going forward, or if they're legacy support for products that eventually will be replaced by Google Home equivalents.

<comment><USER25> Good thing Nest got broken out from under Google! Just in time for all its resources to get sucked back into Google.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> "The difference with this device is that we started from the beginning," says Dave Burke, who runs Android engineering.

Started from scratch, yet the end result looks like a iPhone knockoff from a random Chinese shanzhai company?

[http://i.imgur.com/LlqaAPO.png](http://i.imgur.com/LlqaAPO.png)

<comment><USER28> Reminds me of the original iPhone - it was an LG Prada ripoff. I'm sure you call all phones with a white front iPhone knockoffs.

<comment><USER29> totally!

i mean look at it, what is the difference? [http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/06/iphone...](http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/06/iphone- prada-touch-01.jpg)

<comment><USER20> The iPhone looks way chunkier and chintzier

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Last week we tried to launch an Android-first app at a major startup conference with 5000 visitors.

95% of the visitors (startups, entrepreneurs, investors, executives) had iPhones. We later confirmed this by looking at the network stats and couldn't believe it. In a country where Android statistically has 80% marketshare. The Android users loved the product, but we failed because we couldn't generate word-of-mouth.

For the target audience of the Pixel, this is an uphill battle.

<comment><USER31> Actually that shows a big opportunity exists for startups in Android space. Clearly the startup world is not where the customers are due to various reasons.

Go where the customers are, observe what they are doing and make something they can use.

I truly see a big opportunity. Launching at startup events is wrong unless your customers are them.

<comment><USER30> Sure, but potential partners and investors want to use your product and try it out. If you have Android-first the only thing you can do is you lend them an Android phone. And then you get 80% feedback on general Android topics and they boot the phone just to try the app and can't determine all its implementation and integration potential.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> The price makes me a bit sad tbh

One of the best things about the Nexus range was they offered the Google vision of android at a reasonable price. The Nexus 4, 5 and 6 were affordable.

I purchased my Nexus 5 for a shade below £300 when it came out, which I thought was excellent value for money in comparison to how much I had paid for a Samsung previously.

This Pixel line seems to have abandoned that ideal to compete directly with the iPhone.

Personally I'd feel very uncomfortable walking around with a £600+ phone.

<comment><USER33> Absolutely agree. I know there are other cheap android phones but Nexus was always a good bang for your buck. This is like Toyota discontinuing the corolla to compete with Maserati.

<comment><USER34> the phones were great because they were universally unlocked (rare). the camera on my nexus 5 is trash, however.

<comment><USER35> Just order your favourite phone from outside the US. We have all of them unlocked for sale at any major retailer across the pond.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> "Their debut signals Google's push into the $400 billion smartphone hardware business and shows that the company is willing to risk alienating partners like Samsung Electronics Co. and LG Electronics Inc. that sell Android-based phones."

You mean not including the time they bought Motorola?

<comment><USER37> Google is a like an ADHD kid, one minute they want to conquer Android hardware market with Motorola, and other days they are so annoyed by hardware that they sell Motorola to Lenevo.

<comment><USER38> They bought Motorola for the patents, and sold off the rest.

<comment><USER39> That's what they are saying now that they sold it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> It blows my mind that there's not a single positive top level comment yet. Seriously, guys, what's up with the culture of entitlement and complaining?

We're hackers, let's get fucking excited about the new cool gadgets! This phone is _awesome_.

How about, before nitpicking and criticizing, we take a moment to appreciate and celebrate the new technology developed by our colleagues?

<comment><USER41> The Nexus 5 was amazing, the 5X was acceptable, this.... makes me want another option.

Maybe you care about the camera, but I barely use mine except as a scanner replacement when sending documents.

All of the interesting announcements were about everything except the hardware, which IMO was extremely boring, and they've discontinued their mid- range line of phones so it's not even clear that you can get the software on other phones. You could argue this is exactly what Apple does, but that's the reason I refuse to buy Apple products.

I'm expecting and hoping a flop that causes a return to the spirit, if not the name, of the Nexus line.

<comment><USER42> Except, mobile phone photography is one of the fastest growing use cases: [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/23/arts/international/photos-...](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/23/arts/international/photos- photos-everywhere.html?_r=0)

Even look at Flickr's top camera usage: [https://www.flickr.com/cameras](https://www.flickr.com/cameras) (which has a selection bias towards people who take and upload certain pictures to Flickr)

Think about the number of other places images are taken (and shared!) Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Snapchat, etc. etc. I think you might be in the minority when it comes to images.

<comment><USER41> I believe it, I'm just sad that there's no option for those like me who are satisfied with the shitty 5X camera.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> I'm saddened by the continued fragmentation.

"Google Assistant" replaces the Google search bar... but only on the Pixel? So this is yet another Android device that behaves differently from every other.

The exclusive carrier is Verizon. Why not Google Fi?

The default video app is Duo. Why not Hangouts?

Does "Google Now On Tap" get replaced by the assistant for the Pixel? Is that _just_ for the Pixel?

I don't get it. I don't understand how Google can think this produces a cohesive, meaningful experience for their users when they keep changing things or fragmenting their platforms.

Edit: Full disclosure, my only smartphone is a Nexus 5X. I like it, I don't like Google's platform chaos.

<comment><USER44> I see this too. And I have stopped watching I/O yearly due to the incessant changes of UI every year, undoing what the recommended the previous year (position of buttons, menus, slide out menus). It is wearying. Nobody would accept that kind of stunt on other platforms, eg. PC.

They are in a difficult situation though - if they don't announce new stuff, the short-sighted industry will think they are stagnating, instead of being robust and reliable and having mature APIs that you can count on not to change.

<comment><USER44> BTW I must say I am happy with Android as a platform and phone (got a Wileyfox Swift with update ROMs from Cyanogen) but as a developer I find the ping-pong changes tiring. I'm not here just to bash Android.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> _"Google is now the seller of record of this phone,"_

And who is the servicer of broken phones? Is there a warranty? Can I get a customer service agent on a real voice line?

Given Google's track record of hardware they could have answers for all of this and I _still_ wouldn't own one.

<comment><USER46> I've bought a Nexus phone every year since the Nexus One (and a few tablets as well) and throughout those years have received a few warranty replacements. One was even a free replacement of a replacement more than a year after the initial purchase. I always get a human in a chat or phone call without any effort, and I always get free next day shipping. I bought Nexus protect on my current phone, and although it is through a third party, when I damaged my phone the replacement process was basically the same (except I had to pay $79). I personally think their hardware support is awesome.

</comment></comment><comment><USER47> > Burke says the company will eventually be able to ship its own custom > "silicon," a buzzword for customized processors that make devices work > better.

Silicon is not a buzzword. It is the element with which the processors are built. Perhaps it's colloquial or jargonistic to refer to processors as silicon, but it's not a buzzword.

<comment><USER48> It's synecdoche.

<comment><USER49> I didn't realize that's what synecdoche meant.

Adds some depth to the title of the movie "Synecdoche, New York"

<comment><USER50> I'm not sure depth is the thing that movie lacks. But tack on some more, sure, why not?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> I'm sorry, I just don't trust Google hardware efforts anymore. Nothing they've done indicates that they won't completely abandon this in a year and a half. It would probably end up in my Google Graveyard sooner rather than later, right next to my Google TV and Galaxy Nexus with Google Voice.

<comment><USER52> Iphones are released at pretty much the same clip as Nexus devices, so I don't understand that particular complaint.

<comment><USER53> iPhones receive OS updates for like 4 years after release where as most Android phones seem to be forgotten as soon as the next model comes out. As an Android user, this is one thing that I have to admit Apple wins at.

Not to mention the fact that Google seems to have a habit of deprecating their own apps for seemingly no apparent reason.

<comment><USER54> I've owned iDevices, and they have this curious ability to 'age' themselves into the dumpster after two years of iOS updates. The latest iOS versions run incredibly slow (or not at all) on older devices and you are left with something you can't even flash a custom ROM on.

<comment><USER53> True. I often wonder if it is intentional or if it is just a result of running software which was designed for faster hardware.

Either way, non removable lithium batteries usually take care of the obsolescence issue anyway. After two years, devices seem to barely hold enough charge for an hour.

This is the most frustrating thing for me. I have a three year old HTC M7 which works beautifully (running a stripped down ROM and I avoid all app updates). However, the battery is starting to get weak, and I'm afraid to take it apart.

I wish the LG G5 was more competitive. The removable battery is a huge deal to me, especially now that everything supports rapid charging, which I'm sure wreaks havoc on batteries.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER55> The camera doesn't stick out the back of the phone and become the main contact point for all surfaces. This is true innovation :)

<comment><USER56> I don't get these recurring jabs at Apple. Why bother? It comes out as some sort of inferiority complex.

<comment><USER57> This is actually a jab at Nexus 6P's "visor":

[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b2/Front_and_bac...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b2/Front_and_back_of_the_Nexus_6P.jpg)

Note the large black bar at the top.

It is glass and there are incidents where it cracks, causing unpleasant damage that is difficult to fix.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask, but has there been any information released regarding whether the bootloader can be unlocked or not?

I guess what I'm really asking is if I will be able to flash a custom "ROM" and kernel to this. I've heard rumors of Google taking a more aggressive stance on locking down their hardware, so I'd like to know if there's been any new information regarding this.

If I can't flash custom software to this, I may get the iPhone or HTC 10 instead. The main attraction to Android phones to me was the fact that you can flash modified kernels to do things like force fast charge on USB data links, etc…

<comment><USER58> And imho, the main appeal to the Pixel is that it's Google-controlled and provides the same benefits as Apple-controlled iPhones do: timely updates, strong security, things that "just work", tight 1st party ecosystem integration, etc.

You may or may not be able to flash custom ROMs to you Pixel, but if you choose not to, you'll probably have a fairly optimal stock Android experience. If you absolutely have to have custom everything, there are hundreds of other Android handset options, which is a boon for everyone.

</comment></comment><comment><USER59> I'd like someone to save me from Apple's garbage cloud services, but I just can't get away from their hardware. It's just too good.

So... Can anyone convince me that this thing is going to be different from the iPhone killers that are reported on every year in these regurgitated press releases?

<comment><USER60> I use all of Apple's cloud services and am perfectly happy. Can you elaborate? I'm curious.

My only problem with Apple right now is they won't sell me an unlocked iPhone7 Plus. Every single person I talk to at Apple gives me a different story on how to buy one, but if I show up at the store with money, they won't sell it to me, or even reserve it. I even offered the store to just hold on to my credit card for a week or whatever and mail it back to me. They thought I was crazy! ;)

<comment><USER61> I have an unlocked iPhone 7 Plus in my pocket. I bought it from Apple. I gave them my credit card info and they mailed me a phone. It wasn't really that complex.

Are you trying to buy a "sim free" phone? I believe those are expected to go on sale soon.

<comment><USER60> Can you please go with me to the Seattle or Bellevue Apple Store and help me make this transaction? I went to both over the weekend and things did not go well. They didn't seem to understand the basic process you outlined above.

<comment><USER62> All phones sold at Apple stores are unlocked, but they come with an unactivated carrier SIM. I purchased an iPhone 7 (t-mobile), then popped out the SIM and put in my old AT&T sim. No problem. I suggest just buying the t-mobile device and doing the same, if you're looking for a GSM device.

<comment><USER60> I just want a phone that works. All of those words are confusing.

Seriously though I showed up at Apple with a credit card and a SIM card 48 hours ago and they were not able to sell me a phone. To make it even weirder, I had the (unopened) phone I wanted in a bag, but it is a "locked" one from TMobile. I thought that was ancient history.

One day Apple will want my money!

<comment><USER61> What carrier do you want to use the phone with? If, say, you want to use it with AT&T, just go in and buy an AT&T phone. It will be unlocked. Just swap out the SIM card in the phone with the one you already have if you don't want to activate the provided SIM card for some reason.

<comment><USER60> I thought I could do that but s/AT&T/TMobile. 3 TMobile retail stores have refused to unlock my phone. It's still unopened in a box. I paid full retail price for it and have never had a TMobile account, which is where they get confused.

<comment><USER61> Did you buy your phone from Apple or from TMobile? If you bought it from Apple, it should be unlocked already. You should be able to drop in your SIM and go.

In fact, I did this two years ago with the 6 Plus. I bought a T-Mobile phone from Apple because they were unlocked (at the time the others weren't, even if purchased directly from Apple) and used it with my AT&T SIM.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER63> Let's not go into a fight about Google vs Apple, but consider the landscape.

1) It is interesting to note that, different from the desktop market a decade ago, there is no monopoly by a single provider for smartphone tech. This means that the upcoming challengers try to challenge using the same tech rather than come up with something really innovative. That there is no monopoly in this space, might actually reduce the speed of innovation! These parties are happy to compete with each other on familiar grounds. To me this comes across as a gentlemen's agreement in which knights establish the boundaries of their fight. Google says: it's gonna be phones, don't be afraid we come with weapons that you're not anticipating.

2) If we limit ourselves to smartphones, what would real innovation look like? For me it's twofold: a) getting rid of the other things in my pocket. I currently carry: keys, a wallet, a public transport card, a customer loyalty card, a squash subscription card, and a driver license mainly as ID. b) never worry about charging. The former can solved by actually making use of the existing technology. The latter needs a wireless charging infrastructure that works on a distance and a few R&D years ([http://www.wi- charge.com/](http://www.wi-charge.com/)).

<comment><USER64> a) getting rid of the other things in my pocket

As an incremental step, I'm seeing more cell phone cases with a slot to store credit cards, cash, and ID.

I know, ideally they'd be gone though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER65> The actual product announcement page [https://blog.google/products/pixel/introducing-pixel-our- new...](https://blog.google/products/pixel/introducing-pixel-our-new-phone- made-google/)

</comment><comment><USER66> I think the most unfortunate thing about this being so expensive and underwhelming is that now there's no good alternative for people that don't want to spend that kind of money on a phone to have an Android phone without an OEM skin and with quick updates to new Android versions. This premium phone is only guaranteed updates for two years, and the update situation in Android land is still appalling. Why isn't anyone working on a better driver model for smart phones like for the PC? I want the latest version of Android without any kind of skin, but I don't see any real alternative for me anymore. How can the company behind Android be satisfied with this situation?

</comment><comment><USER67> Why, in 2016, is anyone still talking about "iPhone killers" or threats to the iPhone?

Outside the US it is not the dominant platform. Sure, it has a good share of the market, but it's not like Apple even outsell Samsung's Galaxy range.

<comment> V-2 Not just the US, it dominates in other Commonwealth/Anglosaxon countries as well, plus Japan, France, Scandinavia - quite a chunk of the world, and in a great many countries both platforms are roughly head-to-head

</comment></comment><comment><USER68> One thing I like about the iPhone is the strong emphasis on security. Many features in the iPhone are built around it such as password inputs eventually stop working after a certain amount of tries, plane tickets show up on home screen without needing to unlock the phone and default encryption. I like knowing that if I lock my phone, not even the FBI can get into it. This gives me confidence to use services such as Apple pay. How does the Google Pixel compare in security?

</comment><comment><USER69> So far, aside from the camera (apparently excellent), everything I've heard about why the Pixel is so great comes down to software.

So far, of everything software that people have enthused about with the Pixel... none of that software shines if you only have Google Apps accounts.

Aside from the camera, why would anyone with a Google Apps account buy this?

(I'm referring to the Allo AI assistent, etc which only has limited functionality for Google Apps users, as does Now, Trips, Spaces, App Sharing, Play Music Family, etc.)

<comment> saiko-chriskun I run copperhead and don't even have google anything on my android :P

<comment><USER70> Sadly getting onto copperhead now is gonna be expensive...

<comment> saiko-chriskun You can get an unlocked 5x off amazon for $300.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER71> The graphic showing rating of camera's is super disingenuous [0]

The gap from 88-92 is actually shorter than the gap between 86-89.

[0] [https://www.dropbox.com/s/ehp0sn8w04fpf2q/Screenshot%202016-...](https://www.dropbox.com/s/ehp0sn8w04fpf2q/Screenshot%202016-10-04%2015.57.32.png?dl=0)

<comment><USER72> I really think this is grasping at straws. So you think they placed the 'Pixel' data point a little too far to the right? I didn't really get the impression that this was supposed to be super accurate and quantitative chart of their comparative performances - just a little graphic showing which phones it scored ahead of.

<comment><USER71> I'm not saying the whole presentation is null and void I'm saying that graphic is plain wrong. You don't get to lay out data on a line like that and plot every other phone the correct relativity apart and then put your phone out further than the +4 gain when your phone only has +3 gain. This presentation wasn't slapped together by some intern there is no excuse.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER73> The interesting part will be for how long will the Phone + Software be supported. Now that the price is the same I think it's fair the support should be the same as the iPhone.

<comment><USER74> Specs page [1] states 2 years for OS updates and 3 for security patches, so not even close.

[1] [https://store.google.com/product/pixel_phone](https://store.google.com/product/pixel_phone)

<comment><USER75> That's really weak.

<comment><USER76> It's weak but i think it's probably there to cover their ass. In reality, support will probably continue for much longer period.

<comment><USER77> Nexus 5:

\- First released: October 31, 2013

\- Last feature update: Marshmallow: October 5, 2015

\- Last security update:

According to Google[1]: Nexus devices get security patches for at least 3 years from when the device first became available, or at least 18 months from when the Google Store last sold the device, whichever is longer.

So, worst case scenario: October 2016 is the last security patch. We might get more, depending on when the Google Store last sold the Nexus 5, but I don't know when that was.

[1] [https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705#nexus_device...](https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705#nexus_devices)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER78> The pricing has been copied 1:1 from that of the iPhone 7. Whether in USD, CAD, GBP or EUR: exact same figures.

<comment><USER79> Good note. Funny how many users are mentioning price as their main reason for dismissing the Pixel

<comment><USER80> > Funny how many users are mentioning price as their main reason for > dismissing the Pixel

It's easy to make an excellent phone to retail for $700.

It's much less easy to make a _good_ phone to retail for $300.

This means that a lot of people, probably the majority, have to make-do with sub-par, or second-previous-generation from eBay, or order something from the Chinese market.

Hence the cynicism when Google unveiled yet another $700 phone. It's like another 200 mph supercar from Bugatti, pretty to see and technically fantastic but irrelevant to the market as a whole. Next time Google, how about taking-on a challenge?

<comment><USER76> I think Google is forced to charge $649 because of their relative experience in hardware, which exacerbates their already high labor cost. Perhaps they could've charged $499, but it would've resulted in an accounting loss.

Perhaps the next iteration of Pixel will be cheaper as they ramp up on hardware expertise and reign in on cost.

<comment><USER81> > relative experience in hardware, which exacerbates their already high labor > cost

But everyone in the thread is saying Google didn't really manufacture it and it's just a rebranded HTC device

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER82> It's a real threat to handset makers who use Android. Their OS supplier is now competing with them.

Look for a third ecosystem to come out of China.

</comment><comment><USER83> The camera on pixel is the killer. The low-light photos + the image stabilization is amazing.

<comment><USER84> They worked pretty hard to whoop Apple in the camera department. The HDR looks great, 4k video, unlimited online full-res storage through Google photos, it's the quickest camera ever, and yeah, I can't wait to play around with image stabilized video- I've been waiting to see that in a camera for a long time, it addresses a huge problem.

<comment><USER39> The iPhone 6S Plus had OIS for videos last year. I'm sure it wasn't the first either.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER85> With the trend of bigger smartphones I'm really surprised by the sizes of 5" and 5.5".

<comment><USER86> I'm not. My nexus 6 was fun when it was new, but I've kinda grown tired of how enormous it is. I feel like 5.5 would be perfect for me.

<comment><USER87> I have a 5.2" (Nexus 5X) and I still want something smaller.

<comment><USER88> I switched from a Z3 Compact to an iPhone SE and the 4" screen is great.

<comment><USER89> I was starting to think i was the last person alive that wanted this. Please keep making noise. I really hope the next lineup has a 4".

<comment><USER90> I'm really hoping the 'tock' for the iphone 7 will include an SE version of it

<comment><USER88> My hope is for an alternating fall/spring release schedule. New flagships for the large and extra large market every September/October, and a new medium sized phone built around the same innards in March/April.

"Small" designation deliberately omitted. That's what I'd call the iPhone 1 through 4S, but it doesn't seem likely that we'll get any new ones.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER91> They both locked enough people in an ecosystem where they control the competition well enough that they can justify asking twice as much as their device is worth...

I was hoping to upgrade a nexus 5 I paid 399 CAD and this year they want to charge 899 CAD for the base model!

This is insane and I just ordered a OnePlus 3 (519CAD) hoping that we'll see more competition instead of reliving the 90s desktop OS situation...

<comment><USER92> I just ordered a OnePlus 3 today too (was upgrading also from a Nexus 5) after being disappointed by the Pixel's price. Funny coincidence.

(BTW the LeEco Le Pro 3 also seemed good, has slightly higher specs that OnePlus 3.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER93> Now that the nexus is gone what alternatives exist for developer friendly phones ?

<comment><USER94> Haven't heard/read about this aspect, yet. Pixels are more locked down?

<comment><USER95> One of the things that makes a phone developer-friendly is how accessible it is from a price perspective, i.e. not a £599 price tag.

<comment><USER96> Is that true? Usually developer friendly means not-carrier-locked, which has always commanded a _higher_ price tag.

Meanwhile, iPhones have no cheap developer option either. When has developer equated with cheap?

<comment><USER95> You're right, not being carrier-locked is another attribute of a developer- friendly phone. I wasn't saying developer equates with cheap, but typically "developer" phones are secondary devices that people feel comfortable hacking on without risking destroying their daily driver. Therefore it wouldn't make a huge amount of sense to pay for a top-of-the-range phone when it will likely be a secondary device.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER97> You cannot be serious Google? $1079AUD for Google Pixel when it's $650US....At current conversion would be $853AUD. Of course there is shipping, projected volume of sales in Australia etc... but $226 in shipping is a bit much... [https://store.google.com/config/pixel_phone](https://store.google.com/config/pixel_phone)

<comment><USER98> You are forgetting taxes which puts it to $981AUD, and the cost of customer protection requirements (warranty periods etc) which are more onerous in Australia than US.

</comment></comment><comment><USER99> _" The Pixel phones will also be the first to run the next version of Android, Nougat 7.1 […] Everyone is treated the same, including Rick's team"_

Treated the same, to a limit, I guess. If everyone is treated the same, they wouldn't be able to guarantee to be the first ones out with Nougat.

Let's see how short or long the lead start is they will give their own phones.

<comment><USER54> Interestingly, during the presentation today, the woman said "running Nougat", no mention of 7.1

<comment><USER100> 7.1 is a maintenance release of Nougat.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER101> All sounds good on paper (or video) but £599 entry price?! Now that is _courage_.

<comment><USER102> Also, US buyers get a free Daydream VR headset (worth £69) if they pre-order, whereas UK buyers don't. Very annoying especially since a 128GB Pixel XL costs £819!

<comment><USER101> Yeah I fail to see why I would get this over a Galaxy or iPhone (if OS doesn't matter). They claim the best phone camera yet it doesn't have OIS so it isn't going to be the best for video I doubt.

<comment><USER102> > They claim the best phone camera yet it doesn't have OIS

The video stabilization looked really good in the demo at the Google event [1] despite using the smartphone's gyroscope [2] to do what the camera would do if it had OIS.

[1] [https://youtu.be/q4y0KOeXViI?t=55m20s](https://youtu.be/q4y0KOeXViI?t=55m20s)

[2] [http://www.theverge.com/a/google-pixel-phone-new-hardware- in...](http://www.theverge.com/a/google-pixel-phone-new-hardware- interview-2016)

> Though there's no optical image stabilization, Google tied the camera to the > gyroscope to eliminate the hand-shake "jelly" effect in video.

<comment><USER101> A neat trick but it won't be as good as proper OIS. Considering the price I can't believe they were unable to put in a camera with OIS.

IMHO it is a damn shame to see the Nexus line replaced with such high end devices. I can't see them selling that all that well. They are priced way too high.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER103> Is the new phone water resistant? I can't find anything in the details

<comment><USER104> Not as far as I could tell. I'm sure they would have included it in their ad copy if it is.

</comment></comment><comment><USER105> For a "threat to Apple's iPhone" article the content is pretty low on camera specs. Not to mention a comparison to the rest of Apple's extremely integrated and streamlined hardware/software.

</comment><comment><USER106> So does this come without tracking and more privacy because for that price you can't play the "they need to recoup the costs through user data" card.

Apple it seems can do it for devices in those price range.

<comment><USER107> I'd be interested in being corrected on this but here's my understanding.

Assuming you don't use actively use Google services (i.e. use someone else for search or email) and you say 'no' to every question about tracking during setup then as far as I'm aware the only tracking that remains is the use of the radio to collect anonymised wifi and cell location data to use for A-GPS. And I think it's possible to disable this too (although it's probably not immediately obvious where the setting is).

I guess the Play Store tracks usage but you could use F-Droid.

I'm sure there is some residual tracking after the above is taken into account but the devil is in the detail. Is it anonmymised or personal? Can you view and potentially delete it via your Google profile?

I'm genuinely interested as my privacy is a cost/benefit tradeoff and I want to make an informed decision rather than accept hand-wavey "everything you do is tracked" claims.

</comment></comment><comment><USER108> Biggest problem with this phone is how it looks, and it looks like an iPhone, which for me is not a good looking phone. Why the bottom is so big? Why does it have all those rounded corners?

</comment><comment><USER109> Features on phones seem to have plateaued.

I can't justify spending $650 on the newest phone for a slightly better camera.

My current iphone 6 is just fine, the battery is waning but not unbearably so.

Does the pixel offer anything that justifies the price? Or would a consumer be better off just purchasing an older generation smartphone?

</comment><comment><USER110> This is such BS. Android fanboy here and this phone is junk. Everything they showed off can be done on every Android phone out there

</comment><comment><USER111> What kind of privacy features can you expect from a Google phone?

</comment><comment><USER112> All it needs to have in order to be a threat is a 3.5mm port.

</comment><comment><USER113> The thing people often overlook is the value of iMessage. I switched to Android for a few months and using plain SMS with my friends was a definite downgrade. True, we could use a 3rd party chat network, but everyone seems to prefer a different one.

Also, hard to quantify, but there was an element of social cost in that every knew I no longer using an iphone because the texts weren't blue. HN tends to dismiss such things but branding/advertising are important to perception of value, like it or not.

</comment><comment><USER114> Preorder is available: [https://store.google.com/product/pixel_phone](https://store.google.com/product/pixel_phone)

<comment><USER115> Minimum £600 is quite insane. I think they will drop the price rather quickly.

<comment><USER116> No, they won't.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER117> It seems roughly equivalent to a fairly recent iPhone. I see nothing like being officially water resistant like the iPhone 7, and seemingly no now widely lauded portrait mode thanks to dual cameras and its depth perception. The iPhone 7 also seems to use an (in normal use) more powerful CPU.

So maybe it's more like a premium priced iPhone 6s or so. Outside of Apple's ecosystem. How in the world would that be a "real threat"? The 32 GB Pixel is expected to land at $650, the (now finally) 32 GB iPhone 6s will cost you $550. It'll cost you $100 more and it'll make you lose your ecosystem!

It looks like a method for Google to stop the drain to Apple through an alluring Apple design at best, not something that will do much in the other direction.

As an iPhone user, this doesn't interest me in the slightest, other than an "academical" interest where it's interesting to see Google finally seeing the light. Now let's see if Google will introduce a certification program so people can look at a label in the specs of any Android phone and know that the smartphone will not be loaded with crap. Let the OEM's be still free to do it, but let people have an easier time to vote with their money.

</comment><comment><USER118> Big time Nexus fan (and owner or N5, 6P) here. One thing that is of big concern for me now is that previously (until the Nexus line) their only OS was Android AOSP, and making it better was their sole motive. Now, it's in Google's best interest to market their exclusive Pixel phones, and differentiate Pixel Android from the 'other' Android, the AOSP. The whole Android community might suffer because of this.

</comment><comment><USER119> Aren't they playing right into Apple's hands by pricing it like an Apple product?

Google will never, and I mean NEVER, be able to compete with Apple on fit and finish as well as the all round user experience with which Apple are able to justify their seemingly outlandish pricing.

If anything, people will now scrutinize fit and finish even more closely at this price range and that's the last thing they need.

</comment><comment> m-p-3 I don't think Google is a threat to anyone but themselves with these prices.

</comment><comment><USER120> That price though.. :(

If pixel is completely replacing nexus, then it's a complete bummer, as one of nexus' best points were very good hardware in reasonably good package for half the price as flagship competition (galaxy, iphone). OTOH, it's maybe a good business move if they manage to take galaxy users to buy pixel, Google will make a good buck for it.

</comment><comment><USER121> The main reason I see/hear people coming across from Apple to Android is they get a quality handset at half the price. Given this pricing is inline with Apple, I cant see as something that will seriously threaten other than crowding the market a bit more.

I still dont understand why Google didn't keep pushing the mid-range nexus. They were onto such a sweet spot.

</comment><comment><USER122> Whether it's a nice phone or not, I'm not tempted. I left Android due to an inability to get o/s updates. Android depends on the cell carrier (Bell Canada, in my case) for o/s updates, a model that doesn't work well, in my opinion. With Apple the o/s is always up to date.

<comment><USER65> Not true for this phone.

<comment><USER123> Do you have a source for that? It doesn't have a track record (for obvious reasons).

Has Google promised the carriers don't get to interfere this time?

<comment><USER65> "Pixel ships with the newest Android operating system, Android 7.1 Nougat. Phones will get software and security updates as soon as they're available, directly from Google. " [https://blog.google/products/pixel/introducing-pixel- our-new...](https://blog.google/products/pixel/introducing-pixel-our-new- phone-made-google/)

It's the same as Nexus phones, carriers did not interfere with them.

<comment><USER124> But they still did. The "Verizon" Galaxy Nexus was basically a completely different phone from the other Galaxy Nexus versions and didn't get the same support or updates.

<comment><USER65> Yea that Verizon Nexus was the least Nexus-y of them all. One of the reasons I swore off Verizon for good. But that was 4 years ago and hasn't been an issue with other Nexii since.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER125> Hm, same price as iPhone7, according to Wired (will have to see). I'm interested in leaving iOS but on a more mid-tier smart phone level. Very compelling design and size though in my opinion, would definitely be in the market if budget was available. Well, pending some reviews.

</comment><comment><USER126> The bottom of the article says the phone is assembled by HTC. I suppose the difference between this and the Google Nexus phones is that Google is no longer doing hardware design in collaboration with outside manufacturers. However, collaboration in hardware assembly continues.

<comment><USER58> Yes It is moving from an ODM/JDM relationship to Google being the OEM and HTC being the EMS.

<comment><USER127> You managed to use 5 acronyms in one sentence. Unfortunately even though I have been an programmer for a while I was unable to understand any of them, also googling is not that helpful. Could you elaborate?

<comment><USER128> ODM: original device manufacturer

JDM: joint device manufacturer

OEM: original equipment manufacturer

EMS: electronics manufacturing service

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER129> The reference to Nest isn't a big plus in my book.

I've only heard bad things about it - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpsMkLaEiOY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpsMkLaEiOY)

This phone isn't going to kill the iPhone - in fact it would take a big screwup on the part of Apple for people to start migrating away from its products. Not that Apple is incapable of screwing up, but so far they've sailed their ship pretty well.

Apart from the hardware, there's the whole ecosystem of app developers, programming environments, cloud services.. Ultimately it's about who can attract the more talented developers - and that is a lot more difficult than snapping a faster CPU or better camera in your phone.

</comment><comment><USER130> Apple manufactures fashion items which also facilitate communication. You can't threaten a fashion item. It doesn't work that way. Technological comparisons also don't apply. Only some truly epic fail on Apple's end would threaten them.

</comment><comment><USER65> The product announcement page [https://blog.google/products/pixel/introducing- pixel-our-new...](https://blog.google/products/pixel/introducing-pixel-our- new-phone-made-google/)

<comment><USER114> Info on how to preorder is vague. Says it's available to preorder today, doesn't say where or how.

<comment><USER131> > Pixel is available for pre-order today starting at $649 in the U.S., U.K., > Canada, Germany and Australia. Pre-orders in India will begin October 13.

In the Google Store.

However, availability in 5 countries? Google, you want to take on iPhone with that? Apple phones are available globally. Even with previous Nexuses, they were available in many countries because the manufacturers did sell them, not because Google. Google sold them only with few countries; even in EU, they bothered only with about 14 of 28 (depending on product).

<comment><USER104> I'm really bummed that this thing is $899 in Canada. I wish they would have actually competed on price with the iPhone...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER132> Anything to put more competitive pressure on Apple to release a VR implementation is good IMO.

</comment><comment><USER133> They finally did it! The $1000 smartphone!

Thankfully, for only $649, you can get the 32 GB version, which has the same storage capacity as the Nexus 5 released in october 2013. Oh yes, the Nexus 5 was sold for $150 less.

</comment><comment><USER93> Now that the nexus is gone what alternatives are for developer friendly phones ?

<comment><USER134> OnePlus? I think that the Nexus 6P will age well if you can get it for cheap soon.

There isn't any indication that these phones will be any less developer friendly than the Nexus phones, if you don't have a problem with the price.

</comment></comment><comment><USER135> Still sad it doesn't have a hardware keyboard.

I really, really, really want a good phone with hardware keyboard.

Even better if the dialer is not a common app, and is something you can access immediately even if the "user OS" crash.

<comment><USER136> Hardware keyboard is never, ever coming back. Ever.

<comment><USER22> [https://www.yahoo.com/tech/one-blackberry-upcoming- smartphon...](https://www.yahoo.com/tech/one-blackberry-upcoming-smartphones- classic-215438332.html)

<comment><USER136> Remind me when it's available in stores. We'll see.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER101> Camera doesn't have OIS. That is a disappointment considering the price.

</comment><comment><USER137> I see several references to good video stabilization, but never mention if it's 1080p or 4k, since I didn't see any mention to OIS and sensor resolution is almost the same as 4k (at least the width) how can it effectively compensate to electronic video stabilization in 4k video?

(comment copy-pasted from [https://www.dxomark.com/Mobiles/Pixel-smartphone- camera-revi...](https://www.dxomark.com/Mobiles/Pixel-smartphone-camera- review-At-the-top))

</comment><comment><USER138> It looks like a good device, but is it that special?

At $649, it's in iPhone 7 and Galaxy S7 territory.

It doesn't have an impressive curved display like the Galaxy S7 Edge so the 5.5" Pixel is likely to be larger than a 5.5" Galaxy S7 Edge.

The Snapdragon 821 is probably the best processor they could get, but it doesn't stand up well against an iPhone 7 (or even older iPhones on common tasks like web browsing). So, that doesn't bring anything impressive to the table that I couldn't get before.

Google has just said that the display is "Hi-Definition" in their presentation slide. Looking at one of their videos, it looks like 441ppi on the 5" which means 1080p and 534ppi on the 5.5" so the 5.5" matches the S7 Edge, but the 5" is a lesser display than the Galaxy S7. Not sure it makes much of a difference, but it doesn't best a competitor at the same price.

The Galaxy S7 and many other devices come with 4GB of RAM.

There doesn't seem to be anything in this device that's so exciting with the possible exception of the camera. But how much of that is software? The DxOMark review notes that "Pixel's biggest innovation is an enhanced version of Google's HDR+ multi-image capability. . .the Pixel pushes the capability further than we've seen before". So, is this simply software that Google is going to keep proprietary in order to sell its device? That's certainly fair game, but it points to exclusive software, not hardware being the draw.

Unlimited photo and video storage is nice, but that really doesn't have anything to do with the device. That's just google offering an exclusive service with purchase.

To me, it mostly looks like what I can get in competitive phones, maybe with some exclusive software. It's not faster (constrained by the best Qualcomm can muster). The camera is marginally better than an iPhone 7 (though no word on the iPhone 7 Plus). The display is competitive with or worse than a Galaxy S7 [Edge].

I think Google has a better chance if they start developing their own chips as the article alludes to. Apple has a large single-code speed advantage that's particularly noticeable on the web ([https://twitter.com/codinghorror/status/775777790494846976](https://twitter.com/codinghorror/status/775777790494846976)).

The Pixel looks fine, but it doesn't have something amazingly impressive. It's good, but nothing that truly makes me think that Google has outdone itself. If I were in the market for a new Android phone, I'd consider it. But the OnePlus 3 seems to have most of the same in a much cheaper package. The Galaxy S7 Edge seems to have a cooler package for much the same equipment. Plus, I guess my concern is whether Google is going to care about the Pixel phone 9 months from now. Maybe this is a huge new push. But OnHub seems to be abandoned for this new Made By Google thing after a very short time and generally Google has a bit of a history of not caring about things that don't immediately gain traction. So, maybe a couple years from now it'll look more attractive.

EDIT: looking at the specs, it's 8.5mm thick at the thickest which is how they avoid the camera bump compared to an iPhone 7 at 7.1mm thick.

EDIT 2: I'm very glad that Google is getting into the hardware game. I think they can create great devices and help push the industry forward. I think competition will be great for consumers. I think there are lots of areas (like WiFi) which need to be made better. But it's hard to beat the best smartphones with your first model. I'm glad Google is creating a phone, but smartphones aren't low-hanging fruit to create something remarkably better.

<comment><USER139> The unlimited storage is linked to the device in that for many people that is the biggest storage hog. Stuff it in the cloud and 128GB goes MUCH further.

</comment></comment><comment><USER140> Why do they presume there is a risk of alienating other Android device makers? Those non Apple device makers are too deep in the Android universe with no viable alternative.

</comment><comment><USER141> Before owning an iPhone, I was very happy with an (at the time) expensive Samsung Galaxy Nexus.

But then... Google dropped updates for this phone after just 18 months and the microUSB crappy plastic connector started to fall apart and don't charge. It seems that now Google is selling premium hardware (finally), but what about software updates? I get about 4 years of updates on an iPhone now, who knows what are the plans for this Pixel.

</comment><comment><USER142> Pixel's "integrated assistant" just smells too much like Internet Explorer embedded into Windows. I like Google Now, but I don't need something like an AI interface and everything clumped together. There are some things I don't use, and I'd like the choice to have it not get in the way.

</comment><comment><USER143> Google's business model is based on gathering data from users and hence by definition will not be as secure to use as Apple which derives their income from the high margins on the phones they sell instead of gathering data on us to monetize. Hence, no matter what you say, Google software based phones will not be as secure as Apple ones nor will they protect your privacy as well as Apple does.

</comment><comment><USER144> They have a live presentation now:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4y0KOeXViI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4y0KOeXViI)

</comment><comment><USER145> After using a phone with stereo speakers ( [http://cdn01.androidauthority.net/wp- content/uploads/2015/08...](http://cdn01.androidauthority.net/wp- content/uploads/2015/08/Moto_X_Style_Black_Front_Back.jpg) ) there's no way I'm going back to mono. What's frustrating is that the bottom part looks perfect for a second speaker.

<comment><USER108> What's the benefit of stereo speakers if they are centimeters from each other? Aren't those going to sound like mono one?

<comment><USER146> Sound travels slowly, and your ears are very sensitive to inter-ear phase differences.

It won't sound like mono.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER147> Given that Samsung, LG and others are now competing with Google directly, maybe Firefox OS was too early.

Maybe we'll actually start seeing Tizen headsets from Samsung.

</comment><comment><USER148> My theory is the only reason people switch from iPhones is that they no longer want an iPhone. There are plenty of other options but unless someone is driven to it by flaws from the iPhone then they are not going to switch. For me it was battery life, lack of customization, and my iphone/itunes not playing nice with a windows pc.

</comment><comment><USER149> Stock Android is pretty broken in China.

A lot of things like connecting to a public WiFi (which tries to connect to a Google page which doesn't work), Google PlayStore, Google Maps, email apps, etc.

In China you need an Android that doesn't come preloaded with Google stuff or an iPhone which just works fine incl the AppStore.

It's very strange that Google doesn't offer at least basic support there.

</comment><comment><USER150> I think this doesn't make sense from a business perspective. The cell phone like the PC will become a commodity item. Why get into a business with a lot of competitors. No real differentiation. Google should be trying to get google search into every phone which they are already doing. That is where they make their crazy margins and strength.

</comment><comment><USER151> Android has already won. It is the hardware that has not managed to challenge hardware. But then Android's key selling point has always been about "choice". Blackberry like Android phones ? check. Android phones that feel like Windows UI ? Check, $30 phones? check, phones that look more like gaming devices ? check.

<comment><USER152> I'm a dedicated iOS user and don't own any Android devices, but you're quite right. Google's objective with Android was to ensure that there would always be an open mobile platform with a standard browser and access to Google services without a platform gatekeeper getting in the way. Mission accomplished. The mere existence of Android keeps Apple honest in a lot of ways.

Because their goals are different, Apple and Google can both win in Mobile. Android's success hasn't stopped Apple becoming the most valuable company in the world and Apple's success hasn't stopped Android serving many market segments Apple has no interest in addressing. As consumers, regardless of which platform we prefer, we've all won.

</comment></comment><comment><USER153> The first reaction of a friend of mine, Android developer, was like "Maybe I'm buying an iPhone 7 on leasing, because the Nexus are dead and the Pixel costs so much". Then he realized that the iPhone costs even more. He's not buying anything at the moment. He's got plenty of phones after all.

</comment><comment><USER154> Anyone knows if this is gonna be the "prime" phone of choice for Project Fi in replacement of the Nexus 6P and 5X?

<comment><USER155> It's going to be the only phone in replacement of the 6P and 5X. It seems they aren't interested in mid-range devices anymore.

<comment><USER156> That's crazy. $650 buy-in for what is for most people a somewhat risky wireless service proposition. Given their past track record of 86ing products this can't bode well.

<comment><USER157> The Pixel isn't locked to Fi. It can be used on any carrier. Fi is also pay as you go which means you can leave at any time. It's really not risky at all even if they shut it down tomorrow.

<comment><USER158> I think the parent was stating that Pixel phones will soon be the only way to actually get into Fi. For now, you can start service if you bring a 6p or 5x but who knows how long they'll support that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER159> Besides the obvious economic benefits to the companies that make these phones, is there any real benefit to the user of not having a user replaceable battery? I feel really comfortable keeping an extra battery on standby for emergencies, especially since their charge capacity usually greatly diminishes in about a year or so.

</comment><comment><USER81> Surprised they went with a form factor so similar to Samsung and the iPhone 6, just looks pretty dated really.

Think now would have been a good opportunity to go for something less rounded. An iPhone 4 style sharp design would probably end up looking futuristic next to all the faceless rounded blobs the market is full of.

</comment><comment><USER160> So will it come with non-removable carrier crapware or not? That's the main selling point of the iphone for me.

<comment><USER161> nexus phones never did AFAIK

<comment><USER162> I've had the 4, 5, and currently the 5X. Never had any crapware, always got updates within a week or so of releases. Insofar as I'm aware it's totally stock.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER163> From the pricing, and the fact that the blue version is available only in the US, this seems to be an "iPhone for Muricans that don't want an iPhone" (for whatever hissy fit). Now they have a choice, _exactly_ like between Republicans and Democrats. Enjoy your HTC Pixels.

</comment><comment><USER164> I am just hoping for a smaller phone like the iPhone SE. I never understood the drive towards huge screens that prevent proper single handed usage. I'm still using a Blackberry Q10 because it's a productivity monster - no time for games.

</comment><comment><USER165> Probably the wrong time to say but.

Is or has there been any way I could purchase a new phone assign it my number and have 2 phones ringing at same time? I would have a side by side comparison in each pocket?

Like I buy pants. But 4 at the store and return 3

<comment><USER166> Hangouts dialer + Google Voice / Project Fi. That's my setup. Got 4 phone numbers, all buzz all of my devices including my computers.

<comment><USER165> Text too?

<comment><USER166> yep

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER167> No wireless charging is rather disappointing for me. Other than those from Samsung, are there any options left for a recent flagship with built-in wireless charging?

Maybe I'll just hold out on my Nexus 5 for a couple more years...

</comment><comment><USER168> I'm liking my Nexus 6 but it feels a bit big at times so I think the trend towards 5 or 5.5 is a good thing. Not sure about the price though, my 6 would have to completely croak before I upgrade from it.

</comment><comment><USER169> I would get this phone for the fast charging and automatic OS updates alone.

</comment><comment><USER170> An autoplaying video with sound and a broken pause button? No thanks.

</comment><comment><USER171> What Google need to do next is to finally get out from under Qualcomm. They're a big part of the reason why older hardware can't be supported by newer versions of Android.

</comment><comment><USER172> The hardware isn't really that impressive. iPhone still has the best hardware in my opinion. I'm not even talking about performance, battery, etc, I'm talking about usability.

</comment><comment><USER173> My killer feature for the iPhone is seamless upgrades. Until Android has this (Play Services don't count), it's not going to be a real threat IMO.

Vertical integration FTW.

<comment><USER107> Just to quibble - Android upgrades are fairly seamless. It's just that they are rarer than hen's teeth. :-(

</comment></comment><comment><USER93> Are they keeping the nexus line or is this a replacement ?

<comment><USER41> It's a replacement, which leaves me wondering what I will do when it comes time to replace my 5X since these are almost double the price.

<comment><USER174> my first thought was to buy a spare 5X soon.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER175> Can't find any info about Google Assistant requirements (Android version, Phone model). I hope it won't require Nougat or even Android M.

</comment><comment><USER176> I'm seriously disappointed in this.

Fortunately, I'm not feeling the need to replace my Nexus 5X yet. Maybe next summer when the Moto G5 comes out, I'll see if it's worth switching -- or maybe I'll wait until 2018 and get a Moto G6, but I'm not getting a Pixel.

And if some key apps I use ever end up getting ported to Windows 10 Mobile, I'll consider Microsoft for my next device. But that'll be a ways off: I rely on Lyft to get around, so I can't use a phone that has no Lyft app.

<comment><USER177> Even though you'll probably do not get much support? Microsoft seems to have abandoned the mobile. As far as I know, they won't make any new phones themselves. And I'm not sure other manufacturer will go on making Windows 10 phones as they don't seem to sell well.

</comment></comment><comment><USER178> As an iPhone user, this doesn't look as an attractive option. For half the iPhone price - maybe, but right now - nope.

</comment><comment><USER179> I've been using a BLU R1 HD with Amazon lock screen ads and if I were Apple I'd be _very_ worried. It's a very nice, fast phone with a solid camera.

After using Android for a few weeks I would be pretty happy using it instead of IOS. Among top tier apps and Google provided apps it's definitely now on par with IOS. $59 for a phone is unbelievable.

I just got my iPhone 7 and while it's a great phone and has a slightly higher build quality, it's more than 10x the price.

</comment><comment><USER180> From: [https://blog.google/products/pixel/introducing-pixel-our- new...](https://blog.google/products/pixel/introducing-pixel-our-new-phone- made-google/)

> Pixel comes in two sizes, 5" or 5.5", and three colors: Very Silver, Quite > Black and our limited edition for the U.S. only, Really Blue.

What's your problem Google? You keep being the only big company still pulling this "U.S. only" stuff.

<comment><USER49> Is this a US politics thing? Blue = Democrats?

<comment><USER181> definitely not, just a special color

<comment><USER180> Which makes me wonder what's the business case behind it.

I bet Americans don't care much if blue is available in other countries or not, for the rest of the world is a tiny "because fuck you, that's why".

I'm happy now that the prices are too high, otherwise I might be giving them my money :-)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER182> Had it been water resistant/proof, it would have posed a serious threat to iPhone. Other specs are quite good.

</comment><comment><USER183> No unlockable bootloader for Verizon. Dang...

<comment><USER184> Google is three times the market cap of Verizon. I think I know how to solve this.

<comment><USER185> Since Verizon seems to be transitioning to an advertising company, I doubt regulators would let Google buy it.

<comment><USER184> You're probably right - look at the value such regulatory concern (in its infinite wisdom) brought to Yahoo shareholders by complicating concerns of Microsoft's (non)acquisition of Yahoo oh-so-long-ago.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER186> I realise that not everyone is in the US, but Verizon Exclusive, really?

Edit: Ah, I was mistaken. Contract exclusive, still outright.

Oops!

<comment><USER187> Exclusive for a contract. Outright on the google store is an option.

<comment><USER188> I'm with verizon anyway.. but just switched to a 6p about 6 months ago, so will hold off a while... nice to see a Verizon option out of the box... getting my 6p setup with Verizon as a byod wasn't fun.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER189> Google CEO: At the heart of these efforts is the goal to build a Google assistant. Yes, an assistant!

</comment><comment><USER190> Snapdragon 821 means it's slower than grandmother's iPhone 6 from a few years ago.

</comment><comment><USER191> I've never owned an android but I'm happy to see a first party google phone.

</comment><comment><USER192> MY SMALL HANDS REJOICE!

Sorry I'm so absolutely excited.

</comment><comment><USER193> That basement conference room tho...

</comment><comment><USER194> > Google's First Real Threat to Apple's iPhone

That's funny, I thought all the ones before it were "iPhone killers". Hmmmmm.

</comment><comment><USER195> one word: EXPENSIVE

</comment><comment><USER196> Apple innovates while other companies imitate. This looks exactly like an iPhone without a home button. I'm sure the hardware is fast and it's probably a very good phone. But what does it do _better_ than iPhone? Unless it runs iOS, there's no way Android will ever catch up to iPhone.

<comment><USER107> You can't stretch your imagination to think of _any_ reason someone might prefer another mobile OS to iOS - even if you disagree?

So all non-iOS users are either deluded, misinformed or purchasing solely on price?

</comment></comment><comment><USER197> <vaguely off topic rant about Android 7.1 - but relevant as they control the hardware and specs here>

Why is Google still insisting (with 7.1) that the 3 navigation keys (menu, home and back) need to be on screen - either wasting real-estate or annoyingly hidden - requiring a swipe to expose them?

Old Android phones used to have hardware or software keys that were off the bottom of the screen - and in fact my Xiaomi Mi Note Pro still does - it frees the entire screen for content. If the '3 keys' regularly changed meaning I could see the need to have them 'on screen' but they don't.

<comment><USER198> To turn this around: why did the old phones insist that the hardware buttons take up valuable face space that could be used for more screen, where the buttons could be dynamically drawn and repositioned based on the content and orientation of the phone.

<comment><USER197> But is the giant black bar across the bottom of this screen a good use of screen> [https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/d1FGcK- lOXmwvt9UR7OYJwaOSTg...](https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/d1FGcK- lOXmwvt9UR7OYJwaOSTg=/cdn0.vox- cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/6974889/Screenshot_20160822-064854.0.png) ?

<comment><USER199> Not in all cases. Which is why apps have an API where they can turn it off if they want to reclaim that space for their own use.

Interestingly, no on ever figured out how to implement this trick when apps wanted to use their hardware buttons for extra screen space. I suspect this is a big reason for this particular compromise.

<comment><USER197> Maybe, but look at the bezel at the bottom of the Pixel, plenty of room for software buttons, we just don't have full edge to edge screens yet in all directions. So with plenty of room we are choosing to waste screen.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER200> I'd have thought that with innovation and greater availability of components, smartphones would become cheaper. Instead, I experience quite the opposite with all these new devices.

<comment><USER201> Using this as evidence for that view is sort of like saying you're surprised at the relatively increasing expensiveness of cars after the press release about the new BMW 7 series, or Tesla Model S. Big sexy press releases are for high-end products. Consumer grade, cheaper offerings generally don't get as much media since they are lower margin products, but they do exist[1].

1: [http://www.androidcentral.com/best-cheap-android- phones](http://www.androidcentral.com/best-cheap-android-phones)

<comment><USER202> Seriously. You can get a decent smartphone, new and unlocked, for like $50 now. The market has just expanded hugely so of course entries like this, which vie for "best phone in the world" status, are going to be higher price.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER203> No threat to either iPhone or Note 7 and incredibly overpriced. Pixel is basically a mid-range phone for high-end price. OnePlus 3 for $400 in mid- range or Meizu M3 Note for $140 in lower end are much better deals.

<comment><USER204> Note 7: Huge screen. 5" is a practical limit for me.

iPhone: I want direct filesystem access and 3rd-party app stores, app sideloading, etc. Also, to not have to re-purchase the apps I already have.

The smaller Pixel is more interesting to me than either the Note 7 or iPhone 7. Of course, I've got a weird combination of requirements for phones, and they go against the direction that most of the market is headed, so I'd have to agree that these aren't likely to make a huge dent in the market. They're phones I'll be considering for my next upgrade, though.

<comment><USER203> In that case you should consider Galaxy S7, it has somewhat smaller dimensions than Pixel, but has a bigger screen.

BTW, this is another con for the Pixel a 5" is a DOA for most users these days.

<comment><USER204> Do you remember the Duke controller on the original Xbox? It was usable but not comfortable, and a year or two after the console's release the market pressed for smaller controls. Microsoft started shipping the model sold in Japan.

I feel the same way about phones. 5"\+ is usable, but only with an uncomfortable degree of strain in my hands. I honestly don't see why the "bigger is better" mindset rules the market. I just see that every decent handset out there is a usability compromise.

Thank you for pointing out the S7, though. It's only slightly larger than my current phone, and it would be near the top of my list if I were to go out and buy a new one tomorrow.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER205> > _Google's First Real Threat to Apple's iPhone_

Haha, what? Google already thoroughly beat the iPhone: they made Android. This is just a ridiculously overwrought way to say "Google is making a new phone".

</comment><comment><USER206> The new Raspian update is also called Pixel, I wonder if Google cares enough to sue the hell out of whoever decided on that name.

<comment><USER207> It's confusing enough that they recycled their own product name, the Chromebook Pixel.</comment></comment>


Student Debt's Subprime Problem - <AUTHOR> http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/09/29/2140234/student-debts-subprime-problem/ <comment><USER2> Insanely irritating, had to make an account. What's the world coming to?

</comment><comment><USER3> Pay / authwalled. Google the URL to bypass.

<comment><USER4> I couldn't get in, even after starting an incognito session and googling either the headline or the URL.

<comment><USER3> Strange. I would assume it lets you through based on the referer; you may want to make sure that you allow that when clicking through the link from Google.

<comment><USER5> For FT.com to get around the paywall search for the title on news.google.com. They're more restrictive than NYT and WSJ which let you in through normal Google search.

<comment><USER6> Just sign up for the free account:

[https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2015/09/14/hacker-news- faq-1-ho...](https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2015/09/14/hacker-news-faq-1-how-do- i-read-an-article-behind-a-paywall/)</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Government Tracking How People Move Around in Coronavirus Pandemic - <AUTHOR> https://www.wsj.com/articles/government-tracking-how-people-move-around-in-coronavirus-pandemic-11585393202 <comment><USER2> Hate to be tin foil, what was that thing about an app "if you have symptoms" or something. Seemed ridiculous to have a full app for something that sounds like a form/questionnaire. Anyway probably can just look at your search history.

<comment><USER3> for the most part the government could just ask Google and cover majority of people

<comment><USER2> and look at that... haha

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Of course they will need control data as well to understand how movement during a pandemic differs from normal movement.</comment>


Why Airplane Food Is So Bad - <AUTHOR> http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/05/the-evolution-of-airplane-food/371076/

<comment><USER2> Airplane food? You mean the bag of pretzels and half-can of soda? Can't say I've been on a flight with a full meal in well over a decade.

<comment><USER3> That must be because you're only flying short-haul, dare I say, likely within North America.

Can you imaging being on a flight for more than 6 or 7 hours without anything to eat? The flight from Sydney to LA is 14.5 hrs. They have to feed every passenger. I would be surprised if flights from the Eastern US to Hawaii didn't also have meals service included in the ticket.

<comment><USER2> You're right, I was making a lame joke about food _not_ being served anymore on these short-haul flights. Yes a 6-7 hour flight with no food would be ... hard but I wonder what % of flights actually serve meals anymore.</comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: cubeduel (our side project) - <AUTHOR> http://cubeduel.com/

<comment><AUTHOR> This was a fun side project I built with Adam Doppelt (co-founder of UrbanSpoon). Pretty interesting data so far-- we're trending to having pretty solid reputation data on hundreds of thousands of folks after our first week. 50% of users do 50 or more duels and 20% do 100 duels or more.

The goal of the project was to get an opportunity to work together a bit, explore some new technology (RackSpace Cloud, MongoDB, beanstalk, bluepill, HAML), and do some fun design work.

<comment><USER2> How did you get enough folks to sign up (without any prior announcement) to get reputation data for hundreds of thousands of folks? Just from sending it out to friends?

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Fun project. But highly concerning if it gains real traction -- As a general rule, people are only on my LinkedIn profile if I already think they are good to work with. This site makes me turn half of them into losers. That is not a fair assessment.

Also, when I deactivated my account, it said that coworkers would no longer be able to see me. So... people who have never ever seen this site are visible, but ex-users are not? Something feels sketchy there.

</comment><comment><USER4> Talk about sowing the seeds of discord.

Running your coworkers, particularly if they're your friends through a series of forced choice tasks and then displaying the results publicly is probably a good way to hurt feelings and alienation.

Ask yourself whether you'd do this for your facebook friends.

</comment><comment><USER5> Also, as tptacek noticed on twitter: CubeDuel wins "Best HTTP URL Argument Of All Time" badge for "utf8=✓".

Agreed!

<comment><USER6> But see his latest comment about it: <http://twitter.com/tqbf/status/25785161895383040>

Quoted below:

 _CubeDuel was hilarious for a couple minutes. Then: horrifying. Deactivated account. Advise you to do same. Teamicidal._

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Adam Doppelt (co-creator) here. Feel free to chime in with technical questions and I will attempt to answer them. That's half the fun of a side project!

<comment><USER8> It looks like you project just made TechCrunch, what kind of traffic did that drive?

<comment><USER7> TechCrunch drives a bunch of traffic, generally, especially something like Cubeduel that plays well to that crowd. We're somewhat insulated in that many people lack LinkedIn accounts and bounce off the front door.

The first system to fall over was our message-queue that talks to LinkedIn for logins and refreshes. I had to spin up a separate machine at Rackspace just to help logins along. Hopefully that'll hold things steady for a bit.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> It seems a bit interesting, but I see a couple of points.

1\. I have a small pool of people on my linkedIn profile, so I don't think there are a lot of relevance to my results. IE: I will run out of battles very soon 2\. How well does this scale to people that have a huge number of people on their profile, for example a recruiter? They probably aren't qualified to give their opinion.

<comment><USER10> If you have a small pool of people, doesn't that mean you haven't worked with very many people?

They're not going to be able to manufacture co-workers for you to rate.

<comment><USER11> Or, it means that you worked in industries where LinkedIn use still isn't widespread, and/or places where even if people have an account, they don't accept connections.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Suggestion: ratings should be based on some kind of logistic model (like Elo ratings for chess) instead of the percentage of duels won. e.g., feed the scoring history into Bayeselo or something to get a ranking.

<comment><USER13> I've heard Microsoft's freely published TrueSkill algorithm is good. There are some libraries to calculate it out there already.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> My future career may depend on what's on my LinkedIn profile. It terrifies me to think of logging in to a 'game' with my LinkedIn ID.

<comment><USER15> Your future career may also depend on how well you score in cubeduel.

<comment><USER16> And what a frightening thought that is.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Ha! A politically correct hot or not. I found it incredibly easy to get started and quite addicting actually. Before I knew it I had voted on over 30 co-workers.

<comment><USER18> Same here ... very easy to get started ... and kind of addicting ... not "Angry Birds"-addicting, but addicting none-the-less. Get some ads up there and monetize!

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> This is a small detail, but this checkbox:

        <input checked="checked" id="s" name="s" value="1" type="checkbox">
        Save your name and work history.

could use a <label> so that it works when one clicks on the text as well as on the box.

</comment><comment><USER20> It's Facemash for the office.

</comment><comment><USER21> "No Cookies

I'm really sorry. I wanted to show you cubeduel, but it looks like you have cookies disabled. Please turn on cookies and try again!

Try Again"

No Cookies

I'm really sorry. I wanted to take a look at what this was about. It would have been nice to see some sort of description without having to let you mark my computer.

Try Again!

</comment><comment><USER22> I had a lot of fun with this.

That being said, I do wonder if LinkedIn is the right venue. The premise is very similar to something like "hot-or-not," and I'm just not sure that the "professional" crowd on LinkedIn is going to take to it.

Maybe you can consume another social network's API with a younger audience though.

</comment><comment><USER23> This could be a goldmine for HR and recruiters to help vet someone's likability before sending them on an interview.

Any plans to roll out a ranking badge that people can embed on their sites/resumes/linkedin page that gets dynamically updated as more votes come in for each person?

</comment><comment><USER24> The interface and mechanics of the site looks like an emerging pattern in data collection to understand the relations between nodes on the social graph. Seems like a throwback to the days when psychologists would show physical cards and ask us to choose one.

Reminds me of this family of card games I used to play when young - [http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/377365/top-trumps-some- good-...](http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/377365/top-trumps-some-good-and- some-bad-)

</comment><comment><USER25> I know it was just meant to be a little fun thing, but that said it sometimes asks absurd questions like, "Would you rather work with the marketing intern or the CEO?"

<comment><USER26> I'm not sure that's such an absurd question, depending on the CEO and the intern.

I can right away think of one intern I've worked with that I would really like to work with later on, and I've worked with one CEO that I would never want to work with again... (only _one_ intern and _one_ CEO because I haven't worked with that many of either in fact)

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> I think this has huge implications, not just in this space, but in others (which restaurant? which vacation? other facets of favoriting co-workers? ways a person could improve) -- ties in very well with Jon Bischke's article on Reputation Graph:

[http://jonbischke.com/2011/01/07/reputation-graph-one-of- the...](http://jonbischke.com/2011/01/07/reputation-graph-one-of-the-webs- largest-opportunities/)

</comment><comment><USER28> What's the gaming algo you are using to decide who to duel against whom? I'm assuming your not simply randomly displaying pairs from the same company N number of times? Do winners get pitted for more duels then losers?

</comment><comment><USER29> You need to make the level after 100 high and have some power.

Also, could you have a nice-rank algo that weights votes by the nice-rank of the voters? Or is that how it works?

</comment><comment><USER30> I like the concept - easy to start playing, and it kind of sucks you in - especially when you start contemplating coworkers that you haven't seen and worked with in ages.

</comment><comment><USER31> I am having an issue where CubeDuel thinks that I only have 2 connections, and keeps bringing them back. Not sure why this is happening, or if you've seen this before.

<comment><USER7> That can happen if we can't find good overlap between your work history and the work history of your LinkedIn connections. We make reasonable attempts to normalize the resumes, but we can't account for variations, or even plain ol' typos. Double check your work histories and see if you can line them up better.

<comment><USER32> Still, wouldn't it be better to not do repeat votes? Easy enough to do a query to see if a duel's already been done between 2 folks, though I wonder if that would cause too much of a load increase on your database for you then?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Hmm, it seems coworkers might be able to infer who voted against them if only one person in their office has voted. What sort of protections do you have against this?

</comment><comment><USER34> Absolutely fantastic welcome page, I got it immediately

</comment><comment><USER35> "Whom would you rather..."

<comment><USER31> "With whom would you rather work"

:-)

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> When voting on duplicates, how many people end up switching their vote the second time around?</comment>


Japan to leave International Whaling Commission, resume commercial hunting - <AUTHOR> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/japan-to-leave-international-whaling-commission-resume-commercial-hunt/2018/12/26/2c32fb20-08c9-11e9-892d-3373d7422f60_story.html <comment><USER2> The article itself is really quite good, but for those who come to the comments to find out what this is all about, here is an attempt at a dispassionate summary on an emotionally charged subject:

It's been a fight between those who were seeking to create a sustainable whaling industry, and those who wanted to end the practice completely. As written in the article, the IWC was founded in order to be the former, and brought (largely by global consensus) to become the latter.

After the disaster that was the historical whaling industry, Japan tried to move back to commercial whaling within a framework of scientific consensus based on population levels and a sustainable catch limit, but was blocked by the wider international community.

It has been obvious for years that it would come to this. The two groups are at loggerheads. It's the natural outcome of two different opinions on the ethical standing of whaling as a practice.

In one way, we are lucky that it is Japan that is resuming whaling (joining Norway and Iceland), since they will probably do a decent job of policing their domestic whaling industry, but of course it is unfortunate that a global consensus could not be reached over either acceptable limits or a permanent end to the practice

</comment><comment><USER3> TLDR;

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's constituency includes the whaling port of Shimonoseki, and he has also come under pressure from lawmakers in his Liberal Democratic Party whose electoral districts include whaling or dolphin-hunting communities.

As a move from environment loving developed nation, this is quite repulsive.

<comment><USER4> The whales that don't get whaled will get starved, sharked, or killer whaled.</comment></comment>