Documents Reveal TSA Proposal To Body-Scan Pedestrians, Train Passengers - <AUTHOR> http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2011/03/02/docs-reveal-tsa-plan-to-body-scan-pedestrians-train-passengers/ <comment><USER4> You know how country musicians remind us that "freedom ain't free?"

Well, it ain't. But it's not under assault by people with different-colored skin in foreign lands.

The people who want to fuck us out of our freedom are people _we keep electing_ , or are appointed by the same. Can't believe no one's ever written a country song about _that_.

People want to rag on OWS for being unfocused or whatever. But you know what? I'm glad to see a few comfortable first worlders step up and provide a sustained cry that they're _not comfortable_ with the status quo.

I don't know what the long-term solution is for this power- (and genital-) grabbing nonsense. But I'm pretty sure it starts by getting pissed off and is continued by saying so, out loud, in public, in numbers.

<comment> T-hawk > The people who want to fuck us out of our freedom are people _we keep > electing_

A big part of the problem is that, no, they aren't elected. Not a single position in the TSA is elected. Nor the EPA, or OSHA, or IRS, or any of twelve dozen other agencies who heap mounds and mounds of their own productivity- sapping laws on everybody. Who votes for that garbage? I didn't and nobody else did.

Electing Congressional representatives is too far indirectly removed from this process. Each vote for a representative is the amalgamation of dozens or hundreds of other issues. Congress functionally has free rein to do anything it wants with the TSA and all the other bureaucracies, because they just aren't important enough to cast your precious single vote compared to hotter- button and directly life-relevant issues (abortion, Social Security, immigration, take your pick.)

How can we vote down a TSA action like this with such an indirectly removed vote? What if I like the rest of my representative's opinions but abhor the TSA, how can that be expressed in a single vote? It's a frickin year until the next election, do you think even 1%, never mind 50%, of voters in my district will remember and care about this then?

In some sense, representatives are obsolete. The technology certainly exists now for a much more direct form of interactive democratic government, where we could individually vote on things like the TSA. But how would the current system of elected representatives ever yield to direct democracy? How would even one, never mind 220, representatives ever be in favor of eliminating their own power and positions? Remember that the districts themselves are drawn by the two parties in power (there's no difference) to keep those two parties in power. It's 1984, the governmental structure has created and warped the system to keep itself in power for perpetuity. Overturning it is literally not possible. The system itself, like Newspeak, prevents even the expression of doing so: How do I vote to not have a Congress anymore?

(Dang, I hope this isn't one of pg's honeypot karma-eating politics threads.)

(Edited a few times to phrase myself better, especially about those indirect votes.)

<comment><USER5> I think you don't need to go to the level of individually voted items - <USER2> though the technology would actually make it reasonably simple.

Just having recall elections on all elected representatives and recall referendums on specific issue should be enough. I realise some states like California have something like this.

Case in point : my local representative just switched political sides because the current government threw them some inducements to do so. This ends up so I voted for a person who now supports the people I explicitly didn't want in power. There is nothing I can do about this except wait for the next election. If I had a recall vote I could organise a recall election - but, more importantly, it's unlikely they would have even contemplated the move if they knew a recall was a possibility.

Similarly for the TSA if sufficient opposition was found via petition (say, 10% of registered voters) then an online referendum could be undertaken - <USER3> Disband TSA, yes/no.

This type of thing is dangerous because you could easily end up with deadlock and inertia, but hopefully the mere threat of being overridden or recalled would prompt more representatives to think about representing and listen more.

But I think the key is to lower the cost of voting. But then I'm also very wary of electronic voting systems, so it would have to be extremely secure. Probably two-factor authentication secure.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> _Update: A TSA official responds in a statement that the "TSA has not tested the advanced imaging technology that is currently used at airports in mass transit environments and does not have plans to do so."_

This is false and I have photo evidence.

One year ago I noted that the TSA was doing naked scans (looked like mm wave) on everyone in the tunnel between the Chicago subway and the O'Hare airport, just outside the train platform in a non-sterile area and hundreds of yards away from any actual airport terminal (if you have ever gone to O'hare via the train, you will know once you get off the train it's about another quarter mile walk through a tunnel to get to the airport). I spoke to an agent that was there on site and he confirmed they were "doing tests." Told me they were not stopping anyone that day based on what they saw in the scans, but I would have guessed they would radio intelligence to the airport personnel if they saw anything suspicious.

Here's the photo[1] I took of the scanning station- there were two set up on either side in the tunnel such that you could not exit or enter the subway station without passing in front of it.

[1]<http://twitpic.com/35njtt>

<comment><USER7> Here's another story about the vans from the year before: [http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2010/08/24/full- bo...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2010/08/24/full-body-scan- technology-deployed-in-street-roving-vans/)

<comment><USER8> _On the topic of roving backscatter vans:_

"From a privacy standpoint, I'm hard-pressed to see what the concern or objection could be,"…says [Joe Reiss, Vice President of Marketing at backscatter developer American Science and Engineering, Rensselaer '85, Northeastern MBA '91].

In that case, Joe, it sounds as if you're a bit too ignorant and/or selfish to be making that call.

<comment><USER9> > "From a privacy standpoint, I'm hard-pressed to see what the concern or > objection could be,"

I'm sure thousands of peeping toms have said the same thing to a judge and got a jail sentence anyway.

IMO if a "vice president of marketing" says _anything_ about a product, then the opposite is the truth. It's very easy to claim there's not a problem when you have a six figure paycheck and will never have to walk through one of these machines in your life.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Just discovering this thread...I'm the author of the article linked above, and I actually wrote a follow-up to the story a couple of days later.

[http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2011/03/09/tsa- nev...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2011/03/09/tsa-never-tested- full-body-scans-for-mass-transit-except-when-it-did/)

The DHS was totally dishonest with me in their comments on the initially story, and less than fully honest even in their subsequent follow-up response to my questions. I was disappointed that only a fraction of the readers who read the first post noticed the second, so I'm glad hammock below was able to point out the DHS's contradictions.

Thanks to everyone for reading.

<comment><USER11> Thanks for updating us. Can't you update this article?

<comment><USER10> Done.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> This is what we get, as a society, for not insisting that "Homeland Security" be shut down back in, say, late 2001, once it became clear that it could do absolutely no good for society, and would certainly cause great harm to Constitutional rights.

The permanent fear culture of security theater is now far too entrenched among moneyed interests. It will take a massive effort by the public and by Congress to even begin to uproot it.

<comment><USER13> The rule in American government is that only solutions that will be considered to any political problem must involve spending more money. If you want to shut down Homeland Security, I would suggest proposing replacing it with a new agency that can spend more money than Homeland Security is currently spending.

<comment><USER14> Wouldn't that be the same as just renaming the agency? It's going to be comprised of the same career people and contracting companies anyway. There needs to be hard restrictions on their powers.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Hey, Americans. This whole mess is truly unbelievable from over the pond. Aren't there legal procedures in place to stop this unconstitutional, incredibly annoying, intrusive and expensive fearmongering campaign? Yeah, it was introduced at precisely the right moment by people in positions of trust and power, but haven't you had quite enough already? The head honcho, Pistole, is a deranged veteran of War on Terror. There isn't a yota of evidence in support of their paranoid fantasies. No one is out to get you. Just back down before you've found yourselves living in a police state without a legal recourse.

I know, this has been said time and again already, but venting your frustration on the internet is counterproductive — it assuages an urge to actually _do something_ — and do something you should, because TSA won't dissolve by itself. But there's another side to the endless discussions on the Internet — by illuminating legal specifics of the situation you could effect a slow, incremental progress in public awareness.

<comment><USER16> I once made the mistake of expressing this opinion (i.e., that airport security is pure theatre, completely irrelevant, and isn't making anyone safer) on a shuttle for a high-tech software company.

I guess I kind of assumed that software engineers would be natural skeptics, and predominantly liberal to boot.

Well, nope, that wasn't a safe assumption at all. I had 2-3 people agree with me enthusiastically, 4-5 argue passionately about how the terrorists would win if we let up, and the rest of the bus just stared like me like I just transmogrified into Osama himself for daring to suggest such a thing.

So yeah, if the a supposedly scientific, data-driven, skeptical population broke down like that, I'm not surprised that this sort of thing is happening without much resistance. And it's for this reason I hold nearly no hope that any of these abuses will ever be curbed.

The only question I really want answered is: when did America turn from being such a badass, never running away from a fight, to such cowards, willing to do anything, give up anything, for one iota of perceived safety?

This was in 2009 FWIW...

<comment><USER17> I want to move to your dimension. In my dimension, the bad-ass America of yore imprisoned the entire Japanese population of the west coast during WWII. Compared to HUAC, the TSA is positively rational.

It is not remotely hard to see why we have the TSA and it has nothing to do with cowardice; it has to do with rational actors and their incentives. To wit: there is no incentive whatsoever for anyone in authority to dial _back_ airport security. It's the same reason you have to "turn" "off" your iPod at takeoff and landing.

This isn't some scary new trend. Our whole system of government is designed with the assumption that stuff like this is going to happen. The Constitution isn't an electric fence. It is the constraints provided to a stochastic and inefficient algorithm to get it to _eventually_ converge on an answer John Locke might have approved. 10 years is the blink of an eye in historical terms. Give it another few decades.

Meanwhile, it is simply people's job to hypothesize about "harmlessly" "scanning" mass transit passengers. I guess it's good that we freak out about it, to quash it earlier in the process than later. But nationwide deployment of strip search scanners at train stations isn't imminent.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> But the TSA (and Homeland Security) is now a full-fledged government bureaucracy, complete with a power structure, employeees with statutory rights, and inter-agency links, and no doubt pocket congress members with 'TSA creates jobs' talking points.

The job of the people at the TSA will always to be to ensure the TSA not only continues to exist, that it continues to grow and become more important. Any actual security outcomes will be a side effect, not the primary goal. At no point will the management say 'know what? We're actually wasting money here, let's recommend to congress that we be disbanded'.

It's madness when creating these institutions not to put a self-destruct clause in them. Ie, In when created in 2001, it would be decreed that in 2011, a review will be organised to see if the TSA has actually materially affected terrorism activities.

Of course, the review would be a whitewash, but at least it would keep people remembering that this was a temporary solution to a temporary problem.

<comment><USER18> _> It's madness when creating these institutions not to put a self-destruct clause in them. Ie, In when created in 2001, it would be decreed that in 2011, a review will be organised to see if the TSA has actually materially affected terrorism activities._

Better yet, a sunset clause, where the agency is automatically disbanded 10 years later unless explicitly renewed by Congress for another ten years. Slightly better chance of it getting disbanded then.

<comment><USER19> The Post Office seems to keep getting funded...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> As long as people will irrationally fear "terrorism" and will be willing to let anything pass in the name of fighting terrorism, this will go even further. They'll let them even do random check-ups in your home. TSA wants to go much further, just like any Governemnt agency would. By going further and expanding their territory, they will get more funds.

</comment><comment><USER21> I wonder if North Korea is open to sister city treaties?

</comment><comment><USER22> Imagine if scanners were everywhere, but rather than scanning for weapons they were scanning for tumors and other health problems (and since this is fiction, also imagine that the ionizing radiation dose is negligible).

<comment><USER23> Given that this is fiction, can we imagine that the scanners also find malfeasance by businessmen, government officials, and all other echelons of the powerful?

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> I don't know whether they were referring to intercity passenger rail (Amtrak) with this, but what's rather surprising is that now Amtrak, at least in North Carolina, has just about zero security. You line up on the platform, you show the conductor your ticket when you get on the train (or say that you need to buy one), and then there's a random chance that your ID will be checked after you sit down and the train gets underway (mine never has been). Checked baggage is probably checked (not sure), but they don't even run your carry-ons through an X-ray scanner or ask you to walk through a metal detector.

At most stations the platform is at least locked most of the time (even if it's only with a gate and a chain-link fence), but at some (like Raleigh) anyone can walk up to the platform at any time. Yet despite all this I can't recall ever hearing of a violent act of terrorism being committed on a train.

</comment><comment><USER25> Side-stepping the obvious civil liberty issues, where exactly does the "Transportation" Safety Administration derive its authority to screen people who aren't using public transport?

</comment><comment><USER26> Greyhound buses too.

</comment><comment><USER27> This is from March 2011, I haven't found any newer articles on the same subject. It seems no new news on this front since then?

</comment><comment><USER28> It should say "Documents CONFIRM TSA Proposal To Body-Scan Pedestrians, Train Passengers". I mean, it's not like it's a secret.

</comment><comment><USER29> Seems like tin foil hats, jackets and pants are going to be in fashion

</comment><comment><USER30> Pretty soon they'll be scanning us to get onto freeways...</comment>


Missed call - <AUTHOR> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missed_call

<comment><USER2> I wonder if the success of that "yo" app is based on this concept (even though I think using missed calls are way more effective than using the internet).

</comment><comment><USER3> It's interesting that SMS piggybacks off the handshake part of connecting a phone call - making it actually less data intensive than utilising missed calls, I assume - yet phone companies make a killing on SMS packages and costs.</comment>


Three Strikes of Injustice - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/09/opinion/three-strikes-of-injustice.html?_r=0

<comment><USER2> It's very sad that these _convicted criminials_ could have committed much more hurtful crimes for their _3rd offense_ and received the same penalty: life in prison.

I don't feel sympathy for those people who are _twice_ convicted of felonies and get caught again.</comment>


Ask HN: Review my startup, reasons2.com - <AUTHOR>

http://www.reasons2.com<p>We'd appreciate your feedback on the concept and on it's ease of adoption. Thanks a ton. <comment><USER2> I can see the potential here.

I guess the barrier to signups would be how useful is the site for visitors. Is the site useful in functionality? (the way quora.com is) Or more of a fun way to read light-hearted content? (the way 9gag is). To get the first 1,000 users, it might be useful to target a niche segment, rather than a catch-all segment.

Also, this site seems similar to quora.com. People ask questions on quora, whereas you are soliciting reasons. Yes, I can see how there is a slight differentiation here. So it might be useful to actuall really make it more explicit, probably through sample posts, what kind of content are you trying to capture here that makes you different from asking a question on quora.com.

Probably the content can be more compelling. Asking questions like "why I should exercise?" may not really interest the average visitor. I probably already expect more than half the answers there. More compelling content could be questions like "why are people allowed to carry guns in the states?". And then users can try to frame these questions in the reasons2-esque style: "Reasons for allowing guns in the states". Such content sounds a lot more compelling, and might motivate users to sign up and participate in such a 'forum' of sorts.

There certainly is potential. But the differentiation from websites like quora has to be deliberate here. That's my two cents, hope it helped.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you for the feedback brendanchua.

There are a few key differentiators in my mind but I agree it isn't clearly communicated to the end user yet. As for the content, I thought that among what's posted so far there would be something that peaked someone's interest, enough to sign up. obviously a bad assumption and I'll rework that part.

All comments have been very helpful. Appreciate everyone making the time.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I like the community feel of this, and the focus on reasons "to do" something rather than not.

Like any community site, there's challenges getting the group to a point where it has traction.

There's also the 'will this actually help?' question in my mind. Specifically, if someone is thinking about doing something (like writing a book) hard enough to post it here, then they probably have enough good reasons to go for it. There's just something stopping them - fear of time, not knowing how etc. Perhaps threads would evolve from Why into How - knowing Why to do something is essential, but not knowing How kills a lot of great ideas as well.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks JacobAldridge.

Linking the how is something we want to consider for sure. I'm particularly interested in the getting traction part. Finding the early adopters who will try something new and who will contribute even if the site is still in a pretotype or MVP state. Any suggestions/comments/best practices you recommend for user seeding and adoption? Cheers.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> So, are you supposed to create a topic, and explain why it's worth pursuing, or are you supposed to create a topic and other people are supposed to give you reasons why it should be done? I can't quite tell.

You may need to seed it with people who are good at motivating others. Most of the motivations I read for many of the topics seemed somewhat, um, non- compelling.

<comment><AUTHOR> You post something that you want to do but are on the fence about and solicit reasons why you _should_ do it. You can add reasons of your own too, but having others contribute may give you added perspective, humor, you name it. Agreed in needs to be seeded with users for more compelling content. What would you say is the biggest barrier to signing up?

<comment><USER4> Well, there isn't a barrier to signing up, it's just that there isn't a compelling reason to sign up. I perused a number of topics, and none of the reasons (the name of the site) were interesting, funny or motivating. Without insightful or meaningful reasons for the existing topics, it just doesn't draw me in to be a member. Since the site it supposed to provide reasons to do something, and the current reasons don't strike me as persuasive, then it seems the site doesn't quite serve its intended purpose. Therefore I wouldn't feel like it would be useful to sign up. I don't feel like I'd be missing out on anything.

If the topics had reasons for doing things that were insightful or uncommonly interesting, such that I found them at least interesting points to consider, then I'd feel like I'd be missing out if I didn't join. But since the answers to most topics were rather trite or banal, etc, then I didn't feel I learned anything new. For something like this it would seem paramount that the reasons provided (or at least, the top reasons) were original and very likely not the commonly provided or well known reasons for doing that particular thing.

Maybe you guys should rank or measure originality (or motivational quality) of answers. Or solicit the help of bloggers or other folks who are good at thinking of "why".

<comment><AUTHOR> Got it. So as I understand it, based on your feedback, thus far its a content issue. If the content were there the concept could possibly hold. It's a matter of finding the early adopters who are willing to see beyond what's currently there and help build out the content/community. Thanks for your feedback.

<comment><USER4> You are welcome.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I don't get the revenue potential immediately, what model do you thinking will work?

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks verelo for making the time to check it out. Without going into too much detail yet, there are options. Would you have any feedback on the user adoption part? Cheers.</comment></comment>


Honest We's Just Funnin' – serious work viciously parodied - <AUTHOR> https://billwadge.wordpress.com/2020/02/06/honest-wes-just-funnin-serious-work-viciously-parodied/ <comment><USER2> > The faithful are therefore faced with a terrible but unavoidable dilemma: > they can choose to be virtuous and write programs that are correct but > inefficient, or they can choose to be wicked and produce programs that are > efficient but bug ridden. "Why," the Preachers must ask themselves, "does > the Devil have all the fast programs?"

Timeless</comment>


BEST PRACTICES GUIDELINES FOR AD NETWORKS TO ADDRESS PIRACY AND COUNTERFEITING - <AUTHOR> http://2013ippractices.com/ <comment><USER2> I USE LOTS OF CAPS BECAUSE I THINK IT HELPS ME GET MY POINT ACROSS BETTER.</comment>


Rosetta probe set for comet collision - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-37511861 <comment><USER2> > Physicist Dr Paul Coxon has helpfully condensed the decade-long mission into > a single tweet.

Well I guess that's how you get kids attention these days

The tweet: [https://twitter.com/paulcoxon/status/781785896513314816](https://twitter.com/paulcoxon/status/781785896513314816)</comment>


Ask HN: Do you know your rights? - <AUTHOR> All of them? How would you filter among the corpus of rights to keep ones that apply to your persona's current situation? <comment><USER2> Based on reading a Los Angeles parking sign array, no, I'm not clear on whether I even have the right to park somewhere.</comment>


How the Berlin startup scene is wasting its potential - <AUTHOR> http://www.thelocal.de/20160729/how-the-berlin-startup-scene-is-wasting-its-potential <comment><USER2> Here's to the mittelstand. Here's to the businesses who dare to think small, who dare to do one thing well. Here's to stability, to continuity, to low debt and high margins. Here's to quality over quantity and 20 year plans.

</comment><comment><USER3> Would have wished for more concrete arguments. For example saying the startups there live in the past but not explaining the sentiment or giving examples really does not help me understand the situation in Berlin.

</comment><comment><USER4> Should we link to this post here?

"Berlin Is Now Home to 2,500 Startups"

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12196101](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12196101)

</comment><comment><USER5> Doesn't SoundCloud count as a Berlin startup? I don't know if they are top-100 but they are pretty cool.

<comment><USER6> It's mentioned in the article. They are originally from Stockholm but moved to Berlin because it costs less.</comment></comment>


Daring to reimagine the panhandling economy - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/startup-portraits/445afd2afd0

<comment> Jackson-Solway Photographer here...

So I was just thinking: when was the last time a founder conducted a UX interview with a panhandler? Looking back on reporting this story, it strikes me that I don't know any startup people involved with the homeless community (besides the HandUp team). I hope I'm wrong on this, but I suspect it'll be a while before I see another CEO chase down a panhandler to talk about a text message user flow.

</comment><comment><USER2> As we move more and more into a cashless society, ideas like this are just going to get more important. It's also very interesting explicitly turning giving money to the homeless into a personal donation, which seems to me has a different connotation than just giving somebody a couple of bucks.</comment>


Ask HN: Why do go apps have to live in $GOPATH/src? - <AUTHOR>

I don't get why GO projects need to live in $GOPATH, i know this is at least a requirement of Go deps but it seems dumb. <comment><USER2> They technically don't. The "go" tool is a programmatic wrapper around the compiler and linker - which live in your Go installation under pkg/tool/$platform The compiler for 64bit Linux is named 6g and the linker is named 6l. The "go" tool wraps usage of these two tools into a program that uses the convention of the GOPATH to figure out where dependencies should be found. If you wanted to do everything without a GOPATH you could. Go find your 6l and 6g tools and play with them a bit.

/usr/local/go/pkg/tool/linux_amd64/6g mygofile.go -o mygofile.a /usr/local/go/pkg/tool/linux_amd64/6l mygofile.a mygapp (disclaimer - this is off the top of my head - haven't manually compiled and linked in years because the go tool makes that unnecessary)</comment>


No More Entrepreneurial "Struggle Porn" - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@nateliason/no-more-struggle-porn-202153a01108 <comment><USER2> GaryV sucks. He really is the worst. Dude was born on third base but pretends like he grew up homeless. His #1 skill is bullshit LinkedIn-style "inspiration" which inspires people who shouldn't be entrepreneurs to make stupid decisions and negatively impact their lives.

I don't really feel like adding more than that.

</comment><comment><USER3> > _"maybe my difficulty getting traction is a sign that I need to try > something else"_

This is definitely the highlight of the post for me.

I've seen way too many people pontificate: "things are hard but if you keep pushing then everything will work out" which is exactly as generic and non- helpful as it sounds.

Some pursuits are worth it. Many are not. We have to learn to drop the failed projects early.

"If you don't like the results, change the game" \-- or something like that. Heard it in a movie long ago and liked the quote.

<comment><USER4> Statistically, when people want to give up, is that typically a rational reaction to new information? Or is it typically an irrational reaction to adverse conditions?

<comment><USER3> Valid remark. Many people have been way too pampered and gave up very easily -- in my (apparently very negative) bubble. So building resistance to plain adversity (which might be so plain as to kill you sometimes, hehe) and recognizing when something is just not working is extremely important.

In the end, there is no universal advice.

<comment><USER4> I'm not asking it rhetorically, I genuinely don't know the answer. Do agree there is no universal advice.

<comment><USER3> I really can't tell you. It mostly depends on your environment. Where I live most people are quite badass and strong but were put down by life way too many times so they started quitting earlier than they should. On the other end of the spectrum, I knew quite a lot of people who (as I mentioned above) were pampered and couldn't handle any adversity.

And then you have the people who somehow thrive on the adversity. I couldn't understand them even back when I was full of energy and motivation.

That being said, there are behavioral signs that distinguish people. I believe you should be able to quite easily discern them if you have even basic interaction with them.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> It's not just @GaryV, but the culture in workplaces everywhere in our country. People take a lot of pride in staying up all night to finish presentations, working 80-110 hour weeks etc. So if you're a person not doing this, you'll be labeled unambitious, lazy, somebody who likes to chill etc.

<comment><USER6> Its an unfortunate symptom of whats its like to work in tech today. As an Engineer, twitter makes me feel guilty for not blogging, tweeting, attending meetups, learn new techniques after I clock out from my day job. Are people really working that hard?

<comment><USER5> A lot of people around me pretend they are working hard. They either stick around at work till late (taking 6 hours to do the thing that should've taken 3), keep replying to emails from clients/bosses/"ambitious" coworkers no matter the time, and schedule pointless meetings and phone calls. It's all about optics. These people are also the ones who constantly complain about work and how stressful it is.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I really don't think "struggle porn" is the best term to use, since there is actually such a thing as "struggle porn" that is in the category of consensual, kinky, BDSM porn... The kink.com people made porn of people tied up and tickled, etc.

<comment><USER8> So? I can't see anyone reading this article being confused because they assume it's about actual porn.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> This would go farther and be less click-bait if it was titled "entrepreneurial struggle porn"

Testing to see what walls can move is part of the hard work. I think most people miss that fact that they have to experience less frictional paths to find success.

<comment><AUTHOR> I changed the title following your suggestion.

<comment> jf- Looks like the discussion has been derailed and the thread buried. You might want to take the word struggle out just for the sake of avoiding this again. For what it's worth I think you make a valid point, frankly people need to know when to quit and what's a healthy level of investment.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> My main issue with it is that since struggling to succeed has become a desirable thing, everyone inserts it in their backstory.

Plenty of people that I know have not really struggled at all, yet when you ask them how they did it, there's always a nod to the struggling meme.

It's particularly annoying if you know someone who's made their money in a shady way, because then not only are they hiding the real way they did it, they are also pretending to have persevered by the rules.

There's a few ways this humblebrag comes about:

\- One guy had all the pieces of a business ready, owned very similar profitable businesses in other countries, had invested most of his wealth before moving abroad. So he leads with "I came here with no money to my name".

\- Another guy was blatantly doing illegal things on the side of another business in the same field. So of course it's not like he's starving while waiting for the business to pick up, and for the lawyers to set up some things for him. But the story is again "we had such a hard time until things picked up".

</comment><comment><USER11> Struggle porn is a very uncomfortable term to use, perhaps you can think of something that doesn't invoke thoughts of rape? (Sincere comment, I'm not trying to shame the author).

<comment><USER12> When did porn become synonymous with rape?

<comment><USER13> I didn't even know that "struggle porn" was a particular type of actual porn simulating rape and I had no problem with the inference that the word pair invokes rapey imagery on the face of it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Actually, Gary is very real. A lot of people are trying to be entrepreneurs where they shouldn't. they overthink, trying to be the next facebook, when they just need to make a few thousand to pay their rent.

I've been watching a lot of his stuff lately - my bullshit detector is pretty sensitive. He's not full of bullshit. He's got a LOT of great advice and ideas. Maybe his "ego" is a turn-off for some, but he's doing a lot more good than harm.

You don't get anywhere by talking smack on others, and this post is little more than a bitch that Gary is successful, has a large and engaged audience, and has a message that resonates with people. All things I'm sure the author would LOVE to have.

What worthwhile thing has the author said or done that runs counter to what Gary is about?

</comment><comment><USER15> I would use the simple term "martyrdom".

Christian martyrs made suffering the goal, because there was a reward for this suffering after life.

With startups doing whatever nobody has done before is going to involve suffering. No doubt about this, just study the lives of Eintein or Newton, Steve Jobs or Elon Musk and you see constant fighting and suffering.

In fact, if for creating value you must clearly suffer, odds are that less competence to do it than in areas that people identify with pleasure like singing, dancing, fishing or playing footbal. This lack of competence can make your life happier than most people in the middle and long term.

But it is easy to confuse the part with the whole and believe that just because we are suffering, we are creating something of value.

</comment><comment><USER13> I have mixed feelings about this post. My background is as a "gifted and talented" student and I did some pro bono professional work for an organization working in that area called The TAG Project. I did so while homeschooling my twice exceptional kids.

So, I have a lot of expertise in such things. And one of the things you see with really bright or talented people is they often don't have the patience and similar character traits of the average person. If it doesn't come easily, they throw in the towel. They tend to not think "Maybe I need to try harder or work at this."

I tutored math when I was a member of Mu Alpha Theta in 11th grade. One of my students was a 10th grader who was mentally slow who somehow managed to get into algebra. This person worked harder for their Cs and Ds than I ever worked for As and Bs. And she never got all mad and frustrated like the "smart" kids did when they couldn't understand something.

As an adult, someone I was tutoring in math actually threw their pencil across the room after I told them to put in a number to resolve the algebraic equation, use 10 because it's easy to work with and found that I was right and they were wrong. I told them "Yeah, I'm not the reason you are frustrated. You can behave or find another tutor."

So I think there are people in the world who legitimately need to hear that some things involve struggle. Not everything will come easily.

Having said that, he's right that fetishising it is a bad thing and this is a poor metric. When I struggle, I don't use the struggle per se as a metric. I always am measuring it by something else and concluding it is worth continuing in spite of how miserable I am.

I began making money online while very ill and homeless. I absolutely couldn't work a regular job. Making money at all was a kind of success. "Just go get a full time job" was simply not a viable option.

So I continued to work at it, though I didn't make much. Over time, my income gradually improved.

I'm still struggling to make ends meet. I still have to sit down and spell out the metrics that actually matter and that make this seemingly failed path actually make sense. This is largely rooted in "I have an incurable medical condition. I am getting well when the entire world says that simply cannot be done. (and I am routinely called _crazy_ for talking about that at all)" So I am looking at vastly improved health and moderately, painfully slowly improving finances.

But the medical stuff is supposed to cost millions over the course of my life. If I am simply not running up millions in health care costs, I'm doing a helluva lot better than I am supposed to be doing in all metrics, never mind what a shitty life I have.

There can be reasons people are pursuing something entrepreneurial that they aren't spelling out. Maybe they don't think they need to talk about those elements. Or maybe they know the rest of the world won't understand and will give them a hard time about it, so they keep it to themselves.

The vast majority of what is going on in a person's life is not their business. If they think it is, then they have good health, energy and lots of other personal assets they are taking for granted. Some folks are working at moving other issues out of their way. This can take years to sort out. Taking years isn't necessarily evidence they aren't doing all in their power and making things happen as fast as possible.

So while I agree that you shouldn't be using struggle as a metric to prove you are successful, I think there are some things the author is missing that have real value here.

Also, bullshit metrics like "I'm working so hard" as bragging points for social situations are generally a lot safer than talking about something substantive, like just how much money you are really making. That can make you vulnerable to predation, it can make your supposed friends hate you, etc. Complaint-brags are often the best way to make small talk and not alienate your acquaintances.

</comment><comment><USER16> Jason Fried said something related: [https://signalvnoise.com/posts/1555-learning-from-failure- is...](https://signalvnoise.com/posts/1555-learning-from-failure-is-overrated)</comment>


Who saved The Old Reader? - <AUTHOR> http://scripting.com/2013/08/05/whoSavedOldReader

<comment><USER2> Probably Digg seen as their reader missed the boat a bit</comment>


Show HN: My Evening Project - Our (Digital) Yard Sale - <AUTHOR>

Hi Hacker News! We live in London, but are moving (to the Bay Area!) and have to sell all of our stuff so I made this last night.
What do you think?
http://bit.ly/amazing-yard-sale (redirects to a static Dropbox site) <comment><USER2> Very nicely done, and you seem to be selling almost everything - and strangely you're mirroring our plans. We're planning to move to the bay area in March, also from N1!

How did you create the page? I'm sure I'll be needed to do the same in february!</comment>


Misfire: Fighting Fire with Fire on Tinder - <AUTHOR> http://www.misfire.me

<comment><AUTHOR> Should you perform a quick internet search using the keywords "Tinder Troll," the immediate results document the exploits of men as they prank women on the popular matchmaking app. Interestingly enough, there are extremely few instances of men themselves being pranked over the network.

Until now.

In an attempt to give Tinder women a reprieve, a team at SB Hacks decided to give the men of Tinder what they want most... themselves.

When two men match with the female Misfire account, the Misfire bot redirects all of the messages it receives from each man to the other--thus engaging the two unwitting men in conversation.

The men who take interest in their partner usually discover the deception. The men whose aim is focused elsewhere tend to misfire.

The ensuing hilarity is recorded on their website (misfire.me) for the rest of the internet to enjoy.

</comment><comment><USER2> On iOS I get a big banner, a tiny roumd photo and the name "Sam", then a big white gap with a footer with a fame message text box and a fake send button, with a real "random" button. Clicking that just brings the same page back.</comment>


Ask HN: What was your worst personal financial mistake? - <AUTHOR> I'm curious what traps smart people have fallen into that I should avoid, perhaps because you weren't informed or perhaps because you got to confident in some way. <comment><USER2> Not changing my fundamental mindset about money. 99% of the time, it's better to focus on the long-term goal of increasing your income, rather than saving a small amount of your current income. Extreme frugality is almost always a waste of time and earning potential.

For example: 15% of $150,000 is more than 40% of $50,000. This is also why living in a HCOL but making proportionally more money is financially smart. If you can only save 10% of your income, that 10% number will be far higher if your total salary is higher.

<comment><USER3> I second this. Spent so many years turning down jobs in London. Took the plunge about six years ago. earning over double what I did before but more importantly got so many more opportunities and levelled up my game

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Negotiating against myself, and accepting the negotiating "frame" of the bidder when I had a monopoly/monopsony asset.

I sold a four-letter common-noun .com domain to a major corporation back in the '90s when they were scooping up domains, and fell for the "name your price" trick: I asked around and named a number I thought was high and they said "that's acceptable" – I'll never know how much they might have paid if I'd tried to find another bidder and made a market.

Did I learn my lesson? A few years ago I sold a long-term residential lease to a private-equity developer after bidding them up to "enough to buy an equivalent apartment" – but really the value of the lease to them may have been much higher. I negotiated as if I were selling them my apartment, rather than pointing out that what I really held was their ability to freely develop a very valuable property into which they'd already sunk $40 or $50 million.

I can't really complain, both "mistakes" were only failures to maximize windfalls. And I'm not embarrassed – they were professional negotiators and I'm just a lucky programmer. But I do sometimes regret not being greedier!

</comment><comment><USER5> My worst financial decision was to choose to be an academic as my "first" career. The pay wasn't terrible in my case, but it wasn't anywhere near my potential.

The other side of that coin, however, is that it was probably one of my best life decisions — I am a much better and happier person because of it.

Answering a slightly different question: I can definitely say that I know several people for whom getting married and later divorced was extremely expensive for them on many levels. I imagine that some folks will be reluctant to state that for themselves in a public forum, but it definitely happens. It can be a very tricky topic in terms of what constitutes a reasonable division of assets.

</comment><comment> jon-wood Dismissing Bitcoin as vapour in the very early days (back when you could feasibly mine on a CPU). I still think it's nonsense, but it's nonsense that's made the people around me who bought into it very comfortable!

</comment><comment><USER6> I am making mine right now - I spend too much money and save too little. I'm working on it, but it's proving difficult to get out of the habit. When I was a freelancer saving was easy because I didn't have the illusion of a consistent paycheck. But now I'm in a full time, stable job in a country where employee rights are good and job security is high, and I'm not prioritizing saving as much as I know I should. This is something I'll be working hard to improve.

<comment><USER7> Right there with you. One trick I've been using as of lately is pre-paying my rent by paying for 2 months each month. That way the money isn't available for me to spend uselessly. I'm still spending it, but on a bill that I'd hav to pay anyways. I'm up to 3 months of pre-paid rent and feels good to know that if something happened to my job, at least I won't lose my apartment.

<comment><USER8> This is good but you are better putting this in a GIC instead and then pay rent from there. Ladder GIC's or a HISA account.

If you pre-pay rent, which is good to have it paid and not worry about, you aren't earning interest with that money which can add up, suppose you get to saving 12-months rent in advance.

<comment><USER7> Good point, very true. The issue I struggle with is discipline - if I have any way to access the funds, I will end up spending them, doesn't matter how many accounts I have to transfer through. Hence why I went with the pre-pay rent route - it's technically already "spent" and I can't simply take it back or acccess if after that. The goal is to recalibrate my spending habits after paying double rent for some time, and then begin to reallocate that monthly budget to better investments as you have mentioned.

<comment><USER8> Get a savings only account at a bank far from you. Throw the bank card out. Set automatic withdrawal to that account. This way you have to go to the physical bank to withdraw money. This may work for you. Good luck, it is really a challenge.

<comment><USER7> That's a solid idea, thanks for the tips!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Not starting retirement savings till I was 41

Ps I just started this year. Would like to see how I can understand what I have lost so far and what would I need to do to "make up"

<comment><USER10> [https://www.daveramsey.com/smartvestor/investment- calculator](https://www.daveramsey.com/smartvestor/investment-calculator)

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Not starting to invest sooner. I should have started at 18 but I didn't know. What I would give to have those extra years of time in the market.

<comment><USER11> Without time to build _not afraid to lose_ capital?

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> My Worst mistake was to give too much of my personal gains to close family out of sense of duty only to realize very late that they were simply playing me to accumulate wealth for themselves and whomsoever they considered dear.

Another big one was to invest in real estate without research.

Both were teachable moments this year.

<comment><USER13> "only to realize very late that they were simply playing me to accumulate wealth for themselves and whomsoever they considered dear."

As someone starting out a pretty successful career with a not so wealthy background, I also feel that I will soon need to give of my personal gains to my close family out of a sense of personal duty. Which doesn't really bother me, as I am very grateful for what they have done for me and they would have probably done the same for me if the roles were reversed. My question is why do you feel that they played you? They asked for too much? They asked too often? They were not grateful? You were expecting things that they did not do for you? Could you please elaborate more on this?

<comment><USER12> Yes they asked for too much and demand increased as my income levels grew so watch out for this behaviour. I would say decide what you want to share and keep the boundaries clear.

I don't mind giving at all. It's getting fooled part which pinches.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Investing about $5k into starting a cafe. Low risk businesses are actually surprisingly high risk in that the margins are really poor, sometimes even negative once you count inflation.

Also heavily underestimated inflation of developing countries - if it has high growth, it probably has high inflation. In SE Asia, prices will double every 15 years, if not faster.

If you know tech, invest in tech, because your odds are likely above average.

</comment><comment><USER15> Waiting until 2008 to invest savings dating back to 2003.

</comment><comment><USER16> Too frugal with money, too wasteful with time.

</comment><comment><USER17> Taking 3 years to move from my first job, as I was underpaid and didn't realise how much until getting an offer.

</comment><comment><USER18> 1\. Shooting too low and not taking enough early career risk.

2\. Wiping the hard disk that contained 5 BTC from 2008 :)

</comment><comment><USER19> Buying a lot of domain names, unfortunately selling them is a lot harder than expected.

</comment><comment><USER20> Investing in under-construction properties in developing countries which never got completed due to builder fraud and losing a large amount of money :(

</comment><comment><USER16> \- Quitting my job

\- Traveling full-time

\- Not selling my ETFs (I'm down 20%-30%)

<comment><USER21> I guess you did (1) in order to be able to (2). How was that a mistake? You did not have savings or a plan? (considering doing the same here...)

<comment><USER16> I am frustrated by the state of the world, and I have a urge to fix it. I can't tell if it's a legitimate concern, or if I'm being delusional. The delusion and frustration could be explained by undiagnosed depression and ADHD.

I'm traveling to force myself out of the routine I was stuck in for the past few years. I hoped it would allow and motivate me to act upon this urge to change the world. Something else must be missing, as I'm not making the progress I expected.

I'm currently trying to figure out what's preventing me from making progress. I'm doing a lot of introspection, meditation, eliminating distractions and time sinks, organizing my values, goals and commitments, using a task manager and calendar, building new healthy habits.

I'm trying to fix myself before I can fix the world.

My personal finances are currently taking a hit, but I hope it will turn out to be a good investment.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Leaving around 20 btc in my silkroad account.

</comment><comment><USER23> Not cashing out some options as soon as they vested at a large corporation that then went into decline.

</comment><comment><USER24> Short selling the S&P 500 in 2005. I saw trouble coming but I missed what the trigger would be entirely.

<comment><USER25> What would you say was the trigger?

That was actually my favorite thing about The Big Short—the author did a good job of showing how the traders first to short the market earned the least and experienced the most distress.

<comment><USER24> My theory at the time was something I called "The Syndrome" which was based on the idea that the business cycle is based on the balance of "solving problems" vs "creating problems" and thus a homology between the events surrounding 1929, 1968 and 2000.

In the "syndrome theory" there is a crisis of the private sector creating problems faster that can solve them that then leads to a change in the governing philosophy that improves matters for a time, but then we run into the limits of that regime and it happens again.

This theory called the top in 1999 (I remember watching a football game on Christmas day and the ads were for stocks and bonds and not beer and I went home and sold)

In 2005 I thought the 2nd Iraq War would lead to a government crisis (analogous to Vietnam/Watergate) but that didn't happen.

Interestingly there was no real "regime change" after 1999 but instead SOX and other regulatory changes seemed to cement a culture of rent seeking and inpunity.

Milton Keynes, the great trader, said that "Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent" and that is quite true.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> None, I'm quite savvy with money since very young. But I surely did lost a lot of opportunities.

</comment><comment><USER27> Buying Facebook stocks

<comment><USER28> fb isn't going anywhere. Don't worry. Everybody needs fb for data.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> Staying in academia</comment>


Show HN: Failpulse, simple HTTP and TCP uptime monitoring - <AUTHOR> https://failpulse.com

<comment><AUTHOR> I've been working on this for a while between bouts of procrastination. Any comments, suggestions and questions would be very welcome!

<comment><USER2> I'm working on one, too. It's basically done, except for some miscellany—other projects are taking precedence.

I hope it's a big market. Best wishes! :)

<comment><USER3> > I hope it's a big market.

It is.

There are a lot of these kind of sites out there, with the (probable) leader being pingdom.

Writing something basic is pretty easy for this, with a decent work-queue and a few worker nodes around the world checking from multiple locations.

The hard part is the notifications via SMS, billing, and dealing with failures that are en route from your testing-agent to the real site. (i.e. False positives where you think things are down when actually they're not.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> clickable - [http://failpulse.com](http://failpulse.com)</comment>


Fog Computing - <AUTHOR> https://techradar.cisco.com/trends/Fog-Computing

<comment><USER2> I'd love to visit but the TLS Error: sec_error_unknown_issuer a.k.a. IDK who signed this cert isn't a welcoming thing to see.

<comment><AUTHOR> Interesting. I am not getting that error message, tried with Safari and FireFox on a Mac.</comment></comment>


Convert Experiments New Google Website Optimizer? - <AUTHOR> http://www.convert.com/convert-experiments/

<comment><AUTHOR> Google Website Optimizer will be killed August 1st and migrated to Google Analytics... but they removed lots of features. Thats why we stepped in.</comment>


Infographic: Which Countries Own America's Debt? - <AUTHOR> http://computationallegalstudies.com/2009/12/07/which-countries-own-americas-debt/

<comment><USER2> China has been buying the U.S.'s debt since the mid 90's, when they pegged their currency to the dollar, in order to maintain their peg and keep the yuan from appreciating. From 2005-2008 they abandoned their peg for a managed float and let their currency appreciate about 21% due to pressures from the U.S. because their currency was artificially undervalued which negatively affects the global trade balance and the global economy. In 2008, however, they went back to the peg to protect their export sector and to stabilize their economy and have remained with the peg since.

China has actually dug themselves into a large hole with their monetary policy. The yuan is grossly undervalued and needs to appreciate, however, if they let it appreciate, their U.S. denominated holdings, mostly U.S. Treasury Securities, currently valued at $2.4 trillion, will lose value. It is also in their interest to keep buying our debt because it allows us to keep interest rates down and consume more, and the U.S. is China's largest export market. But on the other hand, if China tries to sell their securities, this will lead to increased supply in the market which will drive down the price of the securities, which will in turn decrease the value of their holdings.

The financial crisis has led to the depreciation of the dollar, and the yuan along with it since it's pegged, compared to most other currencies. This has greatly impacted the emerging and developed countries' economies that rely on exports for growth because they simply cannot compete with China's artificially low export prices.

This is an interesting issue and it will be interesting to see how it plays out. To get a great summary of the current situation, this is a great, quick read that sums it up nicely: <http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RS21625.pdf>

</comment><comment><USER3> Note that this graphic only accounts for ~25% of total US debt - the foreign- held portion.

The majority is owned by US institutions (mostly the fed):

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Estimated_ownership_of_tre...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Estimated_ownership_of_treasury_securities_by_year.gif)

<comment><USER4> True, although when one part of the state prints money to "lend" to another part of the state, I'm not sure how useful it is to include that as part of a total "debt" figure. It's just an artefact of the way the US chooses to implement its monetary policy.

Any economists feel like weighing in on this?

<comment><USER5> The Fed is a private institution, though a small stake is owned by the US government. So it's not really one part of the state lending it to another part of the state.

<comment><USER6> <http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqfrs.htm#5>

"It is not 'owned' by anyone and is 'not a private, profit-making institution'. Instead, it is an independent entity within the government," however for our purposes this quote is probably more relevant, "the Federal Reserve must work within the framework of the overall objectives of economic and financial policy established by the government."

So, independent, but founded to enact government policy.

<comment><USER7> While your summary is technically correct, just look at any of your bills. What does it say? "Federal Reserve Note". Your money is not printed by your government. With all the implications that carries, including your government lending it from FED on interest.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> The title of the image says "who owns America's debt" (the total amount of bonds we've sold), but the caption, and the dollar amount, suggest that it's actually about the deficit (the total amount - in a given year - by which government expenditures exceed the amount of money taxed from citizens).

</comment><comment><USER9> how about a better link/image? [http://www.usfst.com/media/media- news/infographics/usdebt.pn...](http://www.usfst.com/media/media- news/infographics/usdebt.png)

<comment><USER10> ... or maybe an accurate one? [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Estimated...](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Estimated_ownership_of_treasury_securities_by_year.gif)

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Wow, Japan has more US debt than I thought. Anyone know how that happened? US companies don't tend to build stuff in Japan, do they?

<comment><USER12> Remember how before all of our consumer electronics became Chinese they used to be Japanese. Also remember how most cars that work in america are also Japanese. We have been running a huge trade deficit with Japan since the 80s.

In fact I am surprised that China overtook Japan already.

<comment><USER13> They've overtaken Japan only in deficit (i.e. the derivative of debt); Japan could very well still have more debt.

</comment></comment></comment><comment> Asa-Nisse According to this USA owes me $6.5, I accept cash, visa and hot chicks.

</comment><comment><USER14> This chart seems to be off. China only holds over $2b? According to this: [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Foreign_H...](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Foreign_Holders_of_United_States_Treasury_Securities.svg) China holds almost $800b of US Treasury Securities.

<comment><USER13> The chart is for deficit, not debt (see the inky dinky text at the bottom of the infographic)

<comment><USER15> I don't think that's correct. The text at the top refers to "Holders of Treasury Securities" and the legend on the side says each $ equals 10m of Treasury Securities. I.e. debt.

In addition the graphic seems totally screwy. There are 32 rows of 35 dollar signs (total of 1120) which means that $11.2 billion are represented. Which bears no resemblance to either the number at the top nor the one at the bottom.

In addition, the number at the top ($3.4 billion) seems quite small in relation to the one at the bottom.

Seems screwed up.

<comment><USER13> Perhaps it's just a completely fucked graphic then? If it takes this many HNers to try to decipher its meaning, I doubt there's any hope for the average population.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> How much of the debt of these countries does the US own?</comment>


NYC Based Technology-Powered Vertical Farm Is Top Chefs Favorite Supplier - <AUTHOR> https://microgreenology.com/farm-one-interview/ <comment><USER2> I would be interested to know how to make a mini version of this.

Also of interest would be how to cultivate the plants in a way that they would continue to grow after you utilize some of the plant. A garden expert at a local store mentioned doing this, but he was short on details.

<comment><AUTHOR> This might not be possible with microgreens. At least I never heard of anything like that so far.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Paige Carter Sharing The Amazing Story of Farm One: Urban Chef's Farm of The Future</comment>


My very own cloud music player's library - <AUTHOR> http://ymitrimusic.appspot.com/share/5ef46

<comment><USER2> That's pretty cool. Where are the songs hosted?</comment>


Polymaps - A JavaScript Library for Image and Vector-tiled Maps  - <AUTHOR> http://www.polymaps.org/

<comment><USER2> Nice thread guys. In terms of a couple of other alternative mapping libraries, I can point towards a couple in addition to Polymaps. By alternative I guess I mean something that is not currently ready for mainstream consumption - unapologetic disregard for no IE6 (nor IE7 or IE8 in reality) support or attempting to support browsers that aren't adopting forward thinking standards such as SVG / HTML5. I will preface this by saying I am actually pulling one of these together so I might be a little biased in how cool I think tech like this is (Polymaps included).

First off you have a library called Cartagen (<http://cartagen.org/>) which is a very ambitious project indeed and does move towards what simon below suggested in terms of actually rendering without the need for image tiles. Well worth a look.

Next, you have the project I have been working on (opensource, MIT licensed, etc) which I have called Tile5 (<http://tile5.org/>). In terms of GIS feature completeness, it really doesn't compare with the Polymaps or more mature technologies such as OpenLayers - yet. My focus has been to date to create a really nice feeling library for web mapping (mobile touch support, inertial scrolling, easing animations, etc) as my goal was to compete with native maps on mobile - ambitious, I know.

I'd certainly welcome feedback and input regarding Tile5, but would also recommend checking out Cartagen as well to see what else is possible using the likes of Canvas and SVG.

Happy to talk more about this, but obviously don't want to spam the thread.

</comment><comment><USER3> The word "maps" on the start page is actually a map. :)

You can zoom and drag the map around, in the letters.

</comment><comment><USER4> How does this compare to OpenLayers? Does it follow the OGC specs such as WMS, WFS, etc?

Edit: okay, it does vector tiling. That's very nice. OpenLayers' vector support scales badly so this might help.

<comment><USER5> I have another question on that regard. How do you "put it all together"? Specially if you want to host your maps locally. Mapserver, Openlayers, OSM data, QGIS, ... I don't know where to start.

Any good references? (I tried google. I will myself check out <http://trac.openlayers.org/wiki/MappingYourData> , but the more the better.)

<comment><USER6> Here is a nice tutorial on how set up a server to render tiles with Mapnik:

<http://weait.com/content/build-your-own-openstreetmap-server>

If you want to serve tiles you would then have to take a look at mod_tile: <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mod_tile>

<comment><USER5> Great. Thank you for the pointers.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I especially like the tiled approach to data streaming that Polymaps implements, though I wonder if it's inefficient if you have really large polygons and a small grid (I'm assuming that if a polygon intersects the grid it'll be streamed rather than being chopped up).

Get ready for all these client side 2D mapping libraries to get a big speed bump with the onset of HW-accelerated Canvas/SVG rendering.

The online mapping world currently dependent on tiling to get literally _anything_ done. It would be nice to see some variety.

Maybe the ability to handle more data faster will spur innovation in lightweight GIS data messaging formats.

</comment><comment><USER8> > Polymaps is a free JavaScript library for making dynamic, interactive maps > in modern web browsers.

Is the browser support documented somewhere? I can't find it.

<comment><USER2> Native SVG support would be required, so the likes of Chrome, Safari, Firefox, Opera and IE9 would all work. On mobile any webkit based browser should also work quite nicely.

<comment><USER9> Testing on my iPod Touch in Safari, it does not seem to work.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Nice project! We put something similar together earlier this year using GSV and Raphael, but this is pretty sweet (too bad it wasn't around 9 months ago :)

Although it does feel like SVG/images are still not quite as snappy to drag when compared to just regular images in the browser DOM (which is why we did a hybrid).

</comment><comment><USER11> I'm surprised ESRI doesn't show up more often. Their tools are de factor standards in many many markets.

<comment><USER12> OT but the phrase you're looking for is the latin _de facto_ .

<comment><USER11> ha! typo. Thanks for the correction. That's what I get for typing without coffee.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Really good! Somebody knows if there's a more simple implementation to exhibit something like a building project? (limited space with a great zoom possibility).

The maps implementations don't seams to fit for this purpose.

<comment><USER4> Excellent remark. The demos are things that typically work just fine with tiled (e.g. WMS) raster images rather than vector data. It would be more interesting to see the vector aspect come to life.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> I've been doing quite a bit of work with SVG maps in Raphael and I have to say that relative to that, building maps is dead simple with this (and renders amazingly quickly).

However, I'm having a pretty tough time getting this stuff to interact dynamically. Do you have any examples where you're interacting with the maps with javascript (i.e. changing colors, etc.)

All in all, awesome work, though.</comment>


Ask HN: Taking a sabbatical to somewhere in Asia. How can I make the most of it? - <AUTHOR>

Hi, I'm a 23 year old recent graduate and I posted this last week (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2649888). After a combination of burnout and reading the encouraging comments, I've made the definite decision to head to somewhere in Asia for 3 months starting August (considering Thailand, Indonesia or Singapore) and budgeting around $3000-$5000 towards it. During that time, I plan to do some photography, re-learn front-end development, learn the local language and try out mediation and yoga.
For those who've done something similar:
- What were things you took into account / took care of before making the move?
- What else would you do besides what I listed to make the most of the time-off?
- For those in the region, any tips on how to make the most of what I've budgeted?
- What can I do while I'm away to prepare the best for when I get back?
I've never done anything like this before, and right now, I'm feeling what can only be described as a combination of extreme excitement and nervousness. Appreciate any recommendations and insights, particularly from frequent and long-time travelers. Thanks! <comment><USER2> I'm currently for 1 month in Hanoi, Vietnam (after 4 months in Indonesia/Philippines/Vietnam). Life is dirt cheap here - you can find an apartment for $400 (or much less if you get some local contacts or go to some smaller city), food $3/day (eating out). Vietnam is also booming at the moment and many companies are looking to get a foot there. Laos and Cambodia are other exotic destinations in the region. You should not go to Singapore except if you like big westernized cities. I've been several times in Indonesia and lived 2 months in Jakarta, but would not recommend it. Meditation and yoga are big in Bali though, check it out. to answer your questions:

\- I made sure somebody would take care of my incoming mail at home. Also make sure your financial situation,tax etc is handled.

\- learning the local language + spending time on your own stuff sounds awesome

\- 3 months for $5000 should be definitely doable. Renting an apartment beats moving around from hotel to hotel, however you might be interested in checking the country too :-) Mostly, avoid restaurants that serve western food and touristy neighborhoods, as your money will not go far there.

\- doing web dev work would help you keep up to date. You can also see whether locals need help with their website/design needs (for example hotels, travel agencies etc.)

Relax. I know it sounds daunting when you're at home, but it's really not as dangerous or complex as people say. Don't forget to pack light. I have a 35-liter backpack and that's been enough for 5 months traveling/living in SE Asia, including laptop for work :-)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the tips toumhi, it seems like a general consensus that Signapore will probably be too expensive.

Thanks also for that last part, its been weird discussing it with friends/family cause they think its crazy taking the trip without a plan of what I'm going to do after; but that's just something I'll have to live with.

Besides housing and food, do you have any other big expenses? Also, you mentioned you've moved between Indonesia, Philippines and Vietnam, how easy and expensive is it to move around? I'm considering being in Thailand and taking a few weekly trips to visit the surrounding regions.

<comment><USER2> Yeah, I know something about the family doubting of that kind of plans :-)

As for expenses, it depends of your lifestyle of course but it should cost $25/day for basic expenses (housing + food + beers) . If you want to travel around it will cost more. Also language courses you have to pay, yoga classes etc. But everything is much cheaper. I go to a salsa class here and it's $2.5 for 1 1/2 hour.

There are lots of cheap flights between countries, check Air Asia or Cebu Pacific Air for Philippines. Or from Thailand, you can take the bus/train to Laos/Cambodia.

Thailand is more expensive than Vietnam, although it's still much cheaper than most western countries.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Hi, why not going to China? It is the place where you will have the most interesting experience IMHO. Better go to inner China (i.e. not Shanghai or Beijing), to see the real thing. I think a fair part of the planet's future is played in places like Chongqing or in China's countryside, it is worth having a look. Disc: if you are hygienist (can't bear dirty toilets), better drop my advice.

<comment><USER4> If the _future_ is played in such places, that isn't a great reason for him to visiting them _now_ \-- not to mention the huge language barriers in undeveloped or rural areas. I think his time will be more beneficially spent in Shenzhen, if it's to be spent in China. I do agree though that China will be a better option than Thailand or Indonesia (with some assumptions made of what will be attractive to those with a hacker mentality).

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm still considering China too; definitely not out of the question. Curious to know more about why you think it will be more attractive than Thailand or Indonesia?

<comment><USER4> Because Thailand or Indonesia isn't the future, China is.

Your time and experiences as a whole will be more valuable in many aspects if they're spent in China.

Consider:

1) Exposure to the Chinese language -- Mandarin, the _most spoken_ in the world - [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_numb...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speakers)

2) Shenzhen is the "technology hub" of China.

3) The biggest, most successful companies in China are headquartered there, or are planning to establish their headquarters in Shenzhen (Baidu, Skyworth, Hasee, Huawei, etc.)

4) Lots of emigrants there already -- more people in Shenzhen understand English than anywhere else in China

5) A bustling nightlife, and availability of 'luxury services' should you so desire them (as mentioned by someone else, it is the norm there for restaurants to be open until late)

<comment><USER5> Good points, but Beijing is the internet startup hub of China.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> If you have not done it already, you must visit India. India has got an excellent mix of the old and the new. There are a wide array of languages you can chose to learn from. India is the cradle of Eastern philosophy so you can explore yoga and meditations in different forms and flavors. A strong tech community in the tier 1 cities and yes to plenty to capture in your camera!.

</comment><comment><USER7> What else would I do? _Move around_ the region. Transport here is cheap and you'll meet many other people of a similar age doing the same thing. South East Asia is reasonably compact despite the limitations of the transport system, and the subtle differences between countries (and regions within countries) are interesting.

Take a netbook with you and you'll find free wifi in cafes and hotels everywhere (except maybe rural Laos/Cambodia) but the rest of the time you'll be distracting yourself with more varied things than Hacker News.

Rule out Singapore on the budget you've mentioned, unless you plan to live in a dorm and avoid alcohol. Otherwise, it should be reasonably straightforward to live on ~$1000 per month if you're not partying or moving around all the time. You'll find more interesting and much cheaper food served from market stalls and informal roadside eateries than restaurants.

(posted from Saigon, Vietnam)

<comment><AUTHOR> Forgive me if its a n00b question, but how easy is it to meet new people; and are there particular destinations expats frequent?

One of the things I'm slightly nervous about is not knowing anyone or the language; and thereby finding it hard to do even the most basic things like finding a nice cheap place to crash.

Thanks for the tip about Singapore, that seems to be a general consensus. I'm also planning on taking some weekend trips around the region if flights are cheap, and may relegate Singapore to that leg of the trip.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I have never been to the parts of Asia you mention, but if you don't stay right in Tokyo, Japan is doable on $5000 for 3 months. I had an (extremely small) apartment outside of Machida for $300/m. I would guess that outside of Tokyo, Japan might be cheaper than Singapore. The towns near the beach are chill, inexpensive and have many amenities compared to american small towns. I spent less than $8000 over 9 months and went on many trips, bought random electronics and clothes, etc. The most expensive part of my stay was train fare.

</comment><comment><USER5> Singapore is pricier than other countries, but might be a god starting point, given that it is English-speaking, very modern and has a startup community (hackerspace.sg).

As for Indonesia, I think Jakarta is not that pleasant to walk around... but there might be other cities that are better.

I would also put in a suggestion to visit Taipei.

<comment><AUTHOR> After reading the comments, I'm considering doing Singapore as more of a smallers trip (not suggesting that you can experience all of it in a few days). Curious to know more on why you suggested Taipei?

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> You should watch a ted talk by Stefan Sagmeister on Sabbaticals.

He nicely explains the often overlooked value of time off and shows the innovative projects inspired by his time in Bali.

Hopefully , it would help you getting a perspective for focusing on what can be done in sabbatical & help you choosing a place based on it.

</comment><comment><USER10> Feel free to come to Shenzhen, China. I'm the only HNer there as far as I know but the rent is low and the women love foreigners :) I'm about your age and working on a startup here.I can help set you up, find an apartment and maybe we can collaborate on some stuff as well. I swear you won't want to come back home! Contact in profile.

<comment><USER4> > I know but the rent is low

The rent is low in _Shenzhen_? That comes as a surprise to me, I'd been led to believe that it was in fact the most expensive city in China. Can you please expand on this? Perhaps share some numbers relating to rent, food, etc.? I'm considering moving there right after my graduation.

<comment><USER10> Well, I was comparing to Hong Kong and North American cities. That being said, you can easily get a nice 300$/month apartment here. Food can be as low as 1$/meal. Taxis are very cheap. For 10$, you get a SIM card with a phone number and 50 minutes of calling time. Of course, if you have a lot of cash to spend, you can also be served. There are luxury apartments, luxury shopping malls, expensive nightclubs, etc. But if you live as a regular middle class Chinese, you can get by with quite low expenses.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the cost information, definitely within my budget.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Given your budget, you'll likely want to avoid Hong Kong. It's generally considered a great intro to asia given how westernized it is...but hotels will kill.

<comment><USER10> Yep, Shenzhen is a 40 min ride from HK airport and the rent is 1/5 of HK.

<comment><USER11> Shenzhen isn't the safest place to go though (for a tourist)...not the worst either.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Dude, $5K would be living like a king in SE Asia. I travelled to Thailand, Cambodia and Myanmar for a month in Feb, and I spent $1,500 total including my air fare. But I am an airline employee so I saved about a $1,000 worth airfare.

And I was staying on $8/night guesthouses, or if you want to update, maybe $15-20/night room, but if you want to splurge, $5K can easily be wiped out in a week :)

Yes, Singapore is on the higher end, and I love the food there! Not that I don't like the food in Cambodia, Thailand, Myanmar, well, let's just say I'm a foodie :) Food is one of the reasons why I travel.

Ok, about meeting people. If you don't have a Couchsurfing account yet, then I suggest you shd sign up at couchsurfing.org

You'll surely to meet other travellers and they do have local meet up and yes, they can also host if that's your cup of tea, on your first few days. It's a great way to meet a local right away! Talk about cultural immersion.

Once you've signed up, join CS groups in the city where you'll be visiting. Just send a message, and let them know of your interest -- 'would like to meet CSers who also do front-end dev' etc etc. If not, people will direct you to people who knows other people who's doing the same thing.

Each Couchsurfing city (say CS Singapore, CS Bangkok) has its own sub groups. See if they have Expats group where you can connect with. Cambodia has an active expat group in Phnom Pehn. But I tell ya, I love Siem Reap, $.50 cents beer!!

Thailand is tourist friendly, very easy to travel there that I find no challenge to backpack, but that's just me :) The beaches are fantabulous! You can rent a bungalow for a month within your budget. I was in Krabi in 2009.

And 20,000 expats living in Chiang Mai could not be wrong. Chiang Mai is cooler with its proximity to the mountains. I was just there in Feb.

I've never lived there (other than in the Phillipines) but had been vacationing the past 2 yrs to SE Asia. Happy travels!!. Send away your questions to me if you have.

There's nothing you can do to prepare when getting back except to savor the memories and prepare to tell stories about your adventures.

And beware, you may not want to come to back to the US though :) And that's not a bad thing either.

Rowena</comment>