Boston Dynamics shop: Spot Explorer - <AUTHOR> https://shop.bostondynamics.com/DefaultStore/spot?cclcl=en_US&pid=aDl6g000000XdpZCAS <comment><USER2> Dammit, there's a limit on the number of them you can purchase online at once.

        Only two robots may be purchased through the online store.
        Please request a quote to get in contact with a sales representative.

        Spot® Explorer
        Quantity: 101
        Price $74,500.00
        Total $7,524,500.00

Do they come painted in Dalmatian? How much is delivery? Do they deliver themselves?

<comment><USER3> This comment belongs on Reddit, not here.

<comment> blaser-waffle Explain

<comment><USER3> We've gained nothing from this comment. It is a joke about robots taking over the world. $7.4M number was put in the comment deliberately to get attention and then proceeding to inquire whether it comes in Dalmatian spots painted over. Will they deliver themselves? Perhaps I should respond with "haha"? What should I say?

If this isn't Reddit, may be I need to go there again, perhaps things have improved?

I come on HN to get _away_ from jokes, especially of the type in the parent comment. Allow this and then the top comment in every thread on HN is some form a joke. The internet is _filled_ to the brim with entertainment and jokes. It is nice to come here on HN and participate in intellectual, curious and informative discussion. A little humor here and there is fine.

<comment><USER4> I think you _may_ be reading too much into it. I for one found the comment informative because it contained the price tag.

HN may be serious, but we're not entirely humorless.

<comment><USER3> I don't think I am reading too much, I've provided the explanation and my thoughts around erosion of quality on HN.

> HN may be serious, but we're not entirely humorless.

I can agree with that, a little sprinkle of tasteful humor doesn't hurt even thought it doesn't add anything meaningful to the discussion. Totally ok.

<comment><USER5> You cannot realistically expect that all commenters adjust to your particular likes or dislikes. Ironic, because that is exactly how many redditors think.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I remember watching the price of laser printers drop. I was in a computer store once and I was examining a $10,000 model once. A salesman approached and I told him once the price drops below $1500 I am getting one. He actually laughed at me and a nearby customer weighed in I'd be waiting for a lifetime or more.

Truth is I think it was three or four years before I bought a $1495 LaserJet, still have it in fact. So when Spot drops to $7500 I am getting one, just to freak out my neighbors!

<comment><USER7> By the time the price drops to $7500, it would be common enough that no one would get freaked out.

<comment><USER8> Well it depends on what rmason plans to do with it.

<comment><USER6> Where I live people try to one up each other with exotic breeds of dog. I want to just blow peoples minds as I call it with my smartphone, it descends the stairs and then opens the door for me. Then I ask them, can your dog do that?

Secretly I want one so I can write code to teach it 'tricks' :<).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Probably old news but Boston Dynamics' "dog" products were the inspiration for the killer robot dogs in the "Metalhead" Black Mirror episode:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalhead_(Black_Mirror)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalhead_\(Black_Mirror\))

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM3GM299orc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM3GM299orc)

It doesn't often happen but that episode genuinely gave me the heebies.

<comment><USER10> That reminded me of the [https://autonomousweapons.org](https://autonomousweapons.org) short horror film, Slaugherbots[0].

[0][https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CO6M2HsoIA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CO6M2HsoIA)

<comment><USER9> That's very well done, and not unimaginable either.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> One of the strangest things I've ever seen was Boston Dynamics doing a Spot demo at a VC summer party at the same time somebody was demoing their next-gen Twitch-streaming drone that could circle around an object (Spot). Spot strutted about while the drone flew around it and streamed the strut to the internet.

All the VCs were rushing to stream themselves while I was thinking "am I seeing the next-gen war technology?"

<comment><USER12> > I was thinking "am I seeing the next-gen war technology?"

Did you see any coverage of Robomasters?

Some light starter material from The Verge in 2016

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECr4zgK6cPA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECr4zgK6cPA)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RoboMaster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RoboMaster)

>> RoboMaster is an annual _intercollegiate robot competition_ held in Shenzhen, Guangdong, China, founded and hosted by the drone tech giant DJI. First started in 2015, it is the brainchild of DJI's founder and CEO Frank Wang, and jointly sponsored by the Communist Youth League Central Committee, the All-China Students' Federation (ACSF) and the Shenzhen City Government. It is the first _shooting sport-style robotics_ competition in China.

<comment><USER13> There are a bunch of these competitions around the world:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_combat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_combat)

(It looks like RoboMaster is bigger in terms of the number of participants and spectators.)

<comment><USER2> Then there's the Godfather of Robot Combat, Mark Pauline, founder of Survival Research Laboratories.

[http://www.srl.org/](http://www.srl.org/)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Pauline](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Pauline)

>Pauline founded SRL in 1978 and it is considered the premier practitioner of "industrial performing arts", and the forerunner of large scale machine performance. SRL is known for producing the most dangerous shows on earth. Although acknowledged as a major influence on popular competitions pitting remote-controlled robots and machines against each other, such as BattleBots and Robot Wars, Pauline shies away from rules-bound competition preferring a more anarchic approach. Machines are liberated and re-configured away from the functions they were originally meant to perform.

[https://books.google.nl/books?id=AI1sDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT54&lpg=PT...](https://books.google.nl/books?id=AI1sDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT54&lpg=PT54&dq=character+in+cyberpunk+novel+based+on+Mark+Pauline+mona+lisa&source=bl&ots=PvJyNDocEZ&sig=ACfU3U2OGeqLUsEzSTgiqMqUaDrEyt4cxQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjy5oOjuIfqAhVZQjABHXRmBu0Q6AEwAHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=character%20in%20cyberpunk%20novel%20based%20on%20Mark%20Pauline%20mona%20lisa&f=false)

>"With the character of outlaw underground robot maker Slick Henry, William Gibson has immortalized artist Mark Pauline in the novel MONA LISA OVERDRIVE." -Thinking Like a Machine: An Artists Journey into Robotics

[https://books.google.nl/books?id=_riKAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT158&lpg=P...](https://books.google.nl/books?id=_riKAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT158&lpg=PT158&dq=character+in+cyberpunk+novel+based+on+Mark+Pauline&source=bl&ots=ptf5pjrnv4&sig=ACfU3U0po954S5W3s3pq_YQzV8WAskkqkw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwivipu8t4fqAhVVSzABHa1-BUAQ6AEwAHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=Mark%20Pauline&f=false)

>"Pauline builds engines of destruction. He is the founder and director of Survival Research Laboratories, a loosely knit organization which, since 1979, has been perfecting a heavy metal theater of cruelty-scary, stupefyingly loud events in which remote-controlled weaponry, computer-directed robots, and reanimated roadkill do battle in the murk of smoke, flames, and greasy fumes." -Escape Velocity: Cyberculture at the End of the Century

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJFmGu28HVQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJFmGu28HVQ)

>Survival Research Laboratories Live at the Extreme Futurist Festival, LA, California, Dec 22, 2012. This is the public YouTube debut of this documentary, four years in the making. It chronicles the planning, pre- production, and performance of a full Survival Research Labs show, captured by nineteen cameras.

[https://www.youtube.com/user/survivalresearchlabs/videos](https://www.youtube.com/user/survivalresearchlabs/videos)

>(lots more disturbing content in SRL's video list)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> The User Guide is a fun read too. Lots of things I hadn't thought about:

\- pinch points and other safe handling concerns

\- it cannot perceive glass windows or the edge of a cliff

\- "entertainment" is mentioned as a possible application, but you should not operate it near pets or children

[https://www.bostondynamics.com/sites/default/files/inline- fi...](https://www.bostondynamics.com/sites/default/files/inline-files/spot- user-guide-r2.0-va.pdf)

<comment><USER15> Wow, cliff detection... Anybots had that same limitation in 2009. Would have thought it'd be solved by now, particularly in a $70k robobt.

<comment><USER16> My Roomba has cliff detection, but it's probably easier to do in a rolling robot that's right next to the ground.

<comment> amiga-workbench It does, but its tricked by black surfaces that absorb IR. Its why my Roomba refuses to clean my black rug, it thinks its a hole in the ground.

<comment><USER17> Our Bagotta has no trouble with that, if we're comparing brands (not sure if you meant "Roomba: the brand" or "Roomba: any vacuum robot in the USA")

<comment> amiga-workbench I've still got a Roomba 650, I don't know if the newer models handle it any better.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Could a grown man ride it like a horse? This is such a cool, unknown, yet obvious technology but I have no idea what I would use it for. Rescuing people from volcanos? Bringing you a beer? Robot dog races or fights? This is obviously designed for industrial and rescue uses, but I think it could be most successful in the entertainment industry (don't know how ethical that would be though)

<comment><USER19> Some comments here show the max payload is too low. But I've had the same thoughts, so what does it take to scale Spot to the size/max payload of a horse?

<comment><USER20> Like BigDog? Not quite horse capacity, but still rideable in terms of load, although I don't know if it would screw up the balance

<comment><USER21> They had a horse sized payload with the Legged Squad Support system.[1] It worked, but the Marines tried it and it wasn't useful enough. They ended up going with a small ATV for supplies.

(Too noisy, too. A subcontractor was supposed to produce a small, quiet Diesel to power a generator and hydraulic pump, but that never happened. Probably because a small, quiet Diesel is hard. The US military runs on one fuel, JP-8, which works in both aircraft and Diesel engines, so to deploy this, it had to run on JP-8)

[1] [https://youtu.be/LIaXEMOhihw](https://youtu.be/LIaXEMOhihw)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> So the problem they seem to be solving is slowly moving small things short distances across really rough terrain with a power source nearby. I don't see these flying off the shelves.

The bulk of everything else it does could probably be done better with a drone. The only big win for the dog-bot is the 31 pound carry capacity but... I'm not even sure how that is super useful.

<comment><USER23> Indoor environments where a flying creature is a real hazard, especially since you can't have a drone above people (typically) but you can have a dog robot walking around as long as it's not so slow that it blocks stairs/doorways.

Spot with no load (or minimal load) seems to be pretty fast? I could imagine it could do useful checks around a construction area or an empty building and alert someone if something is off - "Hey, operator, a door was opened and now it's closed."

Obviously it's early tech, we're going to see first wave adopters who have an appetite for experimentation.

<comment><USER22> Wheeled robots already dominate indoor environments. They cost a tiny fraction of what this costs, have better endurance, and are safer.

<comment><USER23> Stairs, debris, uneven walkways. Spot does not fall even in really hazardous environments and I have seen some aggressive torture tests.

[Youtube warning] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-PdPtqw78k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-PdPtqw78k)

<comment><USER22> Much like drones are much better at _most_ outdoor operations, wheeled robots are much better at _most_ indoor operations. Yes, stairs, etc etc... but if a company has a big enough need for investing in robotics, it's likely they will be willing to invest in the infrastructure (ramps, etc) to support those robots.

Also, consider for a moment the following from Boston Dynamics:

> Spot should always be operated at least two meters away from people

That alone eliminates something like 95% of workplaces.

<comment><USER24> > That alone eliminates something like 95% of workplaces.

Not currently, as people also operate at least two meters away from people.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Use cases I could think of would include:

\- litter collection in parks, beaches, and ravines

\- job site tool delivery / mobile tool caddie

\- mobile vending at music festivals if those ever happen again

\- archaeological / mineral exploration

\- wildlife conservation and monitoring

\- strawberry, tomato and other low to the ground fruit picking

The quadruped cases are different from the bipedal cases.

The surveillance and security use cases aren't that interesting because to me those use cases are like the woodworking and electronics equivalents of clocks and ashtrays. You could train it to avoid people, and just be a wandering background sensor array for things like volatile chemicals in airport and public transport settings, etc.

Such interesting times we live in.

<comment><USER26> All of those tasks seem much cheaper to accomplish with people.

Also I'd love to meet a workman who would prefer to have a $75k caddy, rather than simply buying $25k worth of new tools and getting up himself to go grab them whenever needed.

The price point matters.

<comment><USER27> As I understand/perceive it, current price point is aimed at R&D of use cases for when that price inevitably drops.

<comment><USER26> I think you may be mistaken; Raibert said in 2018 that there would be commercial availability in 2019. I think this is simply the delayed fulfillment of that commercial availability timetable.

Some of these devices have been with potential customers (including police) for several months now. And the product has been in development in this form since 2016, or far longer if you consider it an extension of other quadruped robots from Boston Dynamics. There's already been a fair bit of R&D.

Perhaps what you mean is that the price will drop when demand grows. I'm sure that Raibert is hoping the same.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> Or get a Chinese lookalike for, supposedly, less that $10000 [0] [1] [2]

[0] [https://youtu.be/2H3dzZEi-qw](https://youtu.be/2H3dzZEi-qw)

[1] [https://www.businessinsider.com/unitree-new-robot-dog- compar...](https://www.businessinsider.com/unitree-new-robot-dog-compared-to- boston-dynamics-spot-robot-2020-5)

[2] [http://www.unitree.cc/product/](http://www.unitree.cc/product/)

<comment><USER29> > The A1 weighs about 26 pounds

That's about 1/7 the weight of Spot, so ~7x the cost seems about right.

<comment><USER30> Spot weighs 32.5 kg (71.7 lbs) according to [https://shop.bostondynamics.com/DefaultStore/spot](https://shop.bostondynamics.com/DefaultStore/spot)

So the A1 is 36% of Spot's weight.

<comment><USER29> Ahh. I must have been looking at the old Spot's weight.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> So amazon could load 10 of these in a self driving truck and do same day/all night delivery 24/7\. They'd only need to figure out a way to get the dogs to pick up and drop the packages. The truck could leave the 'procurement center' loaded with all the packages and make the rounds. The dogs could recharge whenever they return to the truck.

<comment><USER32> You'll likely see these things augmenting expensive skilled employees by carrying their engine driven welders and air compressors around job-sites before you see them doing low margin delivery work. Most technology moves from high margin industries (where the cost per operating hour of an employee is higher and therefore easier to beat) to low margin industries.

<comment><USER33> At 30lb payload, it's not carrying any welder or compressor I've ever worked with. More like fetching a socket from the toolbox that's not quite in reach, but to accomplish those sorts of small and somewhat random tasks is going to require quite a bit more NLP than we've been able to do so far.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> The FAQ has concerning points:

> Are there limits to what I am allowed to do with Spot?

> Spot should never be used to harm or intimidate any person or animal or for > any illegal or ultra-hazardous purpose. Our warranty of Spot becomes void > and we may disable some or all of its functionality upon any such use.

_should_

<comment><USER35> _Our warranty of Spot becomes void and we may disable some or all of its functionality upon any such use._

So Spots are connected back to Boston Dynamics (like Teslas to Tesla) and they can brick your device anytime?

What kind of metrics are they collecting?

<comment><USER2> They don't brick them, they impound them.

For lesser violations they can make it temporarily play dead.

<comment><USER36> "Daddy, where did Spot go?" "He's living on a farm now little girl."

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> From the specs: BATTERY

Battery capacity = 605 Wh

Average runtime (no payload) = 90 mins Recharge time = 120 mins

So you basically have to buy ~4 batteries ($4620 each) to get a 9 hour work day out of them...

<comment><USER38> How do you figure 9 hours? 3 batteries should be a 24 hour day if you are charging 2 and running 1

<comment><USER37> You _might_ get away with 3 (depending on load), but then you would need an additional charger ($1360 each). But there was a reason I use the ~ symbol =). Personally if I were doing this I _would_ get more chargers, but it is really up to the use case. Either way, assuming 5,000 hours/year, you are looking around $20-30/hour of effective cost (depending on what you count for "everything else)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> Someone should tell their web team not to put 25MB png images as product previews :-)

([https://shop.bostondynamics.com/DefaultStore/ccrz__ProductLi...](https://shop.bostondynamics.com/DefaultStore/ccrz__ProductList?categoryId=aCq6g00000000tVCAQ&cclcl=en_US), Spot Enterprise column)

</comment><comment><USER40> I just love robots, and I've purchased a few, but I just never had the time to play around with trying to build my own so I'm a bit naive of what is state of the art and how quickly we can expect it to advance. Maybe when my son is a bit older I will get to build some with him.

I have a robot vacuum which actually does an Ok job on the first floor despite the software being extremely naive. I have a robot lawnmower which, after laying the guide wire, does an _incredible_ job on a fairly complex half acre and was worth every penny, and also accomplishes its task with surprising naïveté.

So far the success of robots seems to be in finding ways to reduce a seemingly complex task into a random walk.

I dream of robots doing all sorts of helpful things. Big robots that help me move stuff around the house (and maybe even up the stairs?). Little robots that can unclog a drain. Ridiculous gyroscoping telescoping robots that scoot around the kitchen and put away the dishes from the dishwasher in perfect stacks way up on the highest shelf.

Specs say Spot weighs 70lbs and can hold 30lbs.

2:1 seems actually... _not bad_. What's the chance the tech evolves to 1:1 in 10 years? Is weight to payload ratio even a reasonable metric?

I feel like the three big things are 1) degrees of freedom, 2) torque, 3) finesse.

I don't really have a good grasp of how much the problem is breaking down at either the software or the hardware level where I've never seen a robot that could really do all 3, even if it was a totally preprogrammed hard-coded action.

</comment><comment><USER41> > U.S. sales only. International customers, contact sales to inquire about > lease options.

Not any business.

<comment><USER42> That may be due to ITAR.

<comment><USER43> I'm sure there is already a Chinese made clone available that used stolen IP.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> So outside of mounting a gun on it or doing basic industrial inspections it's really just a $74,500 toy right?

<comment><USER30> So outside of organizing your recipe collection, this Apple ][ is just a $2000 toy, right?

\-- some pundit in 1977, probably

<comment><USER44> Not sure this take feels right but it doesn't really feel sufficient to say "this time is different" either. It's pretty easy to come up with dozens of military based use cases but really difficult to find commercial ones. Possible use cases for say delivery still rely on human drivers (in delivery vans) or tele-operators for example so it's not clear there's a business case for using them.

<comment><USER30> Sure. There's really no way to tell whether this time is different or not, other than watching what people figure out to do with it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> Okay, I get they need to amortize R&D, but $1275 for a hunk of plastic with two ports and some wires coming out of it? Did they fill it with diamonds or something? _Very_ curious about the BOM on that, given that it looks like it costs less than a dollar to make.

<comment><USER46> I guess if you're already paying $70k for Spot, the adapter's price is negligible.

<comment><USER45> I guess. It still makes me wonder about the margins for other accessories (let alone Spot itself).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> Looks very cool, but what would be common use cases for this robot? Could it carry bags to base camp on everest?

<comment><USER48> Physical security. On a five year depreciation schedule, even assuming multiple units for continuity, you're ahead of labor costs in certain areas.

I could also see Royal Caribbean buying them as novelties to go along with their robotic bartenders on their oasis class ships.

<comment><USER49> Except someone would try to steal/destroy it and it couldn't do anything, so not really. Maybe in a decade or two.

<comment><USER29> A security guard that gets paid $15 an hour can't do anything but call the police either.

<comment><USER50> I mean, they often have guns. So they could do something if really necessary.

<comment><USER51> Depends on the country and what they're guarding. Most places you can only fire on people to protect humans and not property so if Spot is the only one there it won't matter anyway.

Plus it could probably kick the shit out of someone if the software allowed it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER52> The technology is great. But, real honestly, can it do anything that a well- trained German shepherd can't?

Granted it's a hassle maintaining a kennel of well-trained dogs, plus medical, food, etc.

But, for $75k if I had some specific use for a quadruped, I think I'd look into getting a dog.

<comment><USER53> I mean...you can extrapolate this line of thinking to any piece of technology...

<comment><USER52> Well, some technology can't be replicated by living creatures... I could hire 10,000 book-keepers and they still wouldn't be as fast or as accurate at handling my company's finances than an old pirated copy of Quickbooks.

On the other hand, would I spend $7,000 on a state of the art sex doll? I'd probably just head to the bar, spend $50 or so on drinks, and take home a female human.

But, I'm cheap...

Some will spend the $75k to have an automated quadruped robot fetch them their sex doll. As for me, I'll just bring my little chihuahua to the bar, use him to flirt with some girl, and head home with the dog, the girl, and some beer all for much less than $75k.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER54> If you consider that owning a real dog costs roughly 30000$ for 10 years, this isn't that expensive. Of course, the price will drop considerably within the next few years and AI will improve a lot, so in 15 years it may be really common to own a robot dog. Real dogs will be for rich people.

The snake scene of the original Bladerunner movie always struck me as prophetic, where Deckard asks if the snake is real and Zhora replies: "Of course it's not real. You think I would be working in a place like this if I could afford a real snake?"

[https://youtu.be/rmpfavbc7PE?t=116](https://youtu.be/rmpfavbc7PE?t=116) (slight nipple warning)

</comment><comment><USER55> Wow, if you want all the add-on accessories and the service plan it can cost over $50k more!

</comment><comment><USER56> Does anyone know what kind of motor/drive Spot uses? How do they get that precision/torque/speed? Brushless motors + planetary gears + high res optical/magnetic encoders + software for backlash compensation?

</comment><comment><USER57> Why does their video only show 3D animated renderings? I want to see the actual robot, not some Cinema 4D / After Effects mock-up.

<comment><AUTHOR> Check out this video, covers some of the stuff it can do and how it works: [https://youtu.be/iBt2aTjCNmI](https://youtu.be/iBt2aTjCNmI)

</comment></comment><comment><USER58> I wonder what the software looks like. Is it open source? What kind of network connectivity does it need? What kind of training is needed to program the robot?

The price feels low to me, people pay more for cars.

<comment><USER59> Adam Savage over on Tested does a bit of a review of one.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-PdPtqw78k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-PdPtqw78k)

</comment></comment><comment><USER60> I bet we'll see this appear in some Hollywood films!

<comment><USER61> Nah, it's still going to be a lot easier to animate a robot rather than train this one do what you want.

<comment><USER62> It's harder to get actors to respond realistically to an animated robot than a physical one. Depending on what you want, I could well see this being cheaper and easier. At the limit, consider if you only need stuff it can do out of box, and BD will lend you one for promotional purposes or you can resell it with minimal depreciation.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER63> Thats impressive, it runs for 90 min (no payload).

<comment><USER62> See Spot run!

</comment></comment><comment><USER64> Does anyone have any case studies on these being used in an Enterprise Setting?

</comment><comment><USER35> Bolt on a towing winch to pull people from wells and you could replace Lassie.

</comment><comment><USER26> These things are kind of useless in the real world.

<comment><USER17> If you had read the thread, at least half the comments (many of which posted hours before you) say exactly that (like every time when someone says "unpopular opinion but..."), and without any sort of argumentation your comment doesn't really tell anyone anything.

<comment><USER26> Judging by the other comments ("Finally! Something to retrieve a socket wrench from _all_ the way across the room!"), my view that this robot is utterly useless is indeed an unpopular opinion. This is HN and people love the "oh look this is so tech" kind of story. The whole startup scene is about it. I'm not seeing a ton of other people who said the same thing prior to my comment, but to placate you I edited my comment to remove the "unpopular" part. I would ask that you reply to what I say, rather than the specific wording. If I may point it out, your comment critiqued my choice of words while totally ignoring the point I stated.

The argument is: these things are useless in the real world.

This argument is falsifiable: come up with a use case for this robot that is real-world reasonable given the price point and other practical considerations.

If BD is charging $75k for a product that has been in development im one form or another for 10+ years, it seems reasonable that the burden is on BD to prove it's a useful product.

Judging by the history of the product, it seems clear that it's a novelty item. The DoD turned its back on the very loud BigDog, and Google handed BD off to Softbank when they weren't able to answer the question, "so, how do we make money from selling this robot to consumers?"

You can buy three Ford pickup trucks, brand spanking new, for the price of one of these robots.

Boston Dynamics isn't exactly a company that makes products. They are a bunch of researchers who turn money into technology. That technology may involve impressive robotic motion, but not every impressive thing is useful to consumers.

There's a very strong sense among many robotics weenies at MIT that, if you make cool stuff, the DoD or some major corporation will eventually reward you with money that allows you to make more cool stuff. That sense is embodied by Boston Dynamics, in my mind. It doesn't translate to a useful product, whether intended for the consumer, commercial applications, or heavy industry.

And the dangerous bit is that this engineering philosophy of "find someone who will pay us to keep making cool useless stuff" only serves to create tools for the over-funded, which in our society means militaries, police, and other anti-human actors. So the most likely use of this product, if there is any use at all, is a destructive and anti-people application. But I don't think it's very useful even for those purposes, because of price, fragility, need to recharge, light payload, etc.

Be honest. Can you think of any specific application where this product is better than something else (including human labor) that can be bought for $75k?

<comment><USER17> > Be honest. Can you think of any specific application where this product is > better than something else (including human labor) that can be bought for > $75k?

I never said that I could, I wasn't being dishonest before.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER65> I'll just leave this here: [https://youtu.be/y3RIHnK0_NE](https://youtu.be/y3RIHnK0_NE)

google + boston dynamics = skynet :p

<comment><USER14> 1) That's a fake video, made by a visual effects company.

2) Google already bought Boston Dynamics, realized they had no idea what they were doing, and sold Boston Dynamics to another large, wealthy, easily confused organization (SoftBank).

<comment><USER65> I know it's cgi, their channel is pretty cool, check out Bohemian Rhapsody: [https://youtu.be/PJO7bcRVPvI](https://youtu.be/PJO7bcRVPvI)

Had no idea about Google, seems like the perfect moonshot, wonder what they were expecting.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER66> I would like a version of their biped robot

</comment><comment><USER67> I wonder what the employee discount is

<comment><USER68> My niece works with them. They gave her one (or, presumably, loaned it to her).

</comment></comment><comment><USER69> the less-capable Unitree A1 quadruped is priced at <$10k

</comment><comment><USER70> This is daylight robbery.</comment>


Free Server. A free server for testing, learning, experimenting, whatever. - <AUTHOR> https://noupload.com/

<comment><USER2> While page dont load, you can try direct link: [https://noupload.com/start.html](https://noupload.com/start.html)

By following this link you will get free Ubuntu 14.04 64bit 512MB ram 20GB space server for 40 minutes.

<comment><USER3> How do you prevent this: somebody creates machines, then immediately starts launching malicious attacks on other machines?

I run a similar service, and I'm starting to hit this problem. Whoever your network provider is, they might eventually get annoyed when you're hosting attacks that other people complain about...

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> This is very cool. I wish the terms were a little different though. Eg maybe you get 3 hours but you can only make as new sever once a week. I can't think of what I would do in 40 minutes. But with a bit more time I could see this being very useful for testing various things.

</comment><comment><USER5> This is pretty cool! Except, 40 minutes is not very long to get an environment set up, I guess that's where the bitcoin extension comes in.

</comment><comment><USER6> Me too pretty sure it's not a bad link though

</comment><comment><USER7> Getting 404 error.</comment>


The ethereum world is now obsessed with breeding cartoon cats - <AUTHOR> https://qz.com/1144169/the-ethereum-world-is-now-obsessed-with-breeding-cartoon-cats/ <comment><USER2> The guy who invented this is a genius. Taking all the trendiest topic of the internet ( cryptocurrencies, cats and pokemon) and combining them into one. I'm sure this will grow really big.</comment>


Rule #4 From the Manifesto for Agile Development  - <AUTHOR> http://blog.aha.io/index.php/rule-4-from-the-manifesto-for-agile-development/

<comment><USER2> With all due respect, where does this Rule #4 come from?

I feel like this is the most authoritative list of the Agile rules [http://agilemanifesto.org/principles.html](http://agilemanifesto.org/principles.html) and this rule isn't on there.

I saw that OP is the CEO of Aha.io. The ideas that Suzanne is writing about are solid, I'm just wondering where the inspiration for this post came from. Thanks!

<comment><USER3> Hi there - thanks for the response. I'm the author of the article. The link you're looking at states "Principles behind the Agile Manifesto". If you look here you'll see that the fourth item down on the actual manifesto is to what I'm referring. [http://agilemanifesto.org/](http://agilemanifesto.org/)

And the inspiration came from my real life best friend who complains weekly about his product manager.</comment></comment>


HackATL - Startup Weekend / Hackathon for all students in the southeast - <AUTHOR> http://hackatl.org/

<comment><USER2> if anybody would like to join a team, I'm down.</comment>


Unintended Consequences of Sexual Harassment Scandals - <AUTHOR> https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/10/09/upshot/as-sexual-harassment-scandals-spook-men-it-can-backfire-for-women.html <comment><USER2> Is this really a surprise to anyone?

Donglegate really hit home that if you get the wrong people on Twitter mad, they will make life hell for you[1]. You might agree that a dongle joke is inappropriate, but the entire backlash on all sides was massively overblown and led to 3 people being fired.

If you make the wrong statement to the wrong person at the wrong time, you might be on the wrong end of an outrage mob. This doesn't even include the messy optics of a man and woman meeting at odd hours in private settings for mentoring meetings. If a nosy third-party decides to speak up on someone else's behalf all of the above still applies, even if its all above board and neither party has an issue.

Better to just keep all meetings with people you don't know or don't trust entirely professional and kept within the workplace.

[1] [http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/03/pycon-2013-sexis...](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/03/pycon-2013-sexism- dongle-richards/)

</comment><comment><USER3> The men who've gotten into trouble for sexual harassment didn't just share "cabs, travel, lunches, projects or get-togethers over coffee" or have "solo meetings with female entrepreneurs, potential recruits and those who ask for an informational or networking meeting." I can't think of a VC or movie producer who's been accused of sexual harassment because they were a great mentor.

<comment><AUTHOR> But some have been accused for political gain (see: Julian Assange)

<comment><USER4> Really? Who's come out ahead for going public with Julian Assange having raped them? Which of the two women at the center of his swedish rape case has achieved political gain?

<comment><AUTHOR> They both recanted and the prosecutor, looking for political gain, FORCED then to be part of it.

<comment><USER5> Source for that? I can't find one.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> The problem is harassment.

This article is talking about men avoiding being alone with women, to avoid the suspicion of third parties. Not really related to harassment.

It would make sense if the concern was false accusations. They don't come out and say that. Maybe because that would be transparently sexist. Any colleague can accuse you of anything that happens in private. Furthermore, in these high profile cases, it's not a matter of one disturbed woman pointing the finger and ruining an innocent man's life. It's multiple accusers coming forward, showing a pattern of behavior over decades, at great risk to their careers. Are we really going to argue that the pendulum has swung too far?

Side note: the article is curiously anachronistic, talking about "the opposite sex", as if everyone were straight. Also, when you think about it, the root problem is still sexism, this time a stereotype about men (the idea that a man can't have a professional relationship with a woman).

<comment><USER7> > Any colleague can accuse you of anything that happens in private.

Right, exactly. That can be a problem in addition to the larger problem of the actual harassment.

And, the harassment has been such a problem for so long (pretty much forever) that it makes sense to me that a) people are trying different ways of working in order to address it, and b) that those ways have unintended consequences.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> The consequences might have been unintentional, but surely they were foreseeable.

It's not reasonable to expect anyone to accept increased risk for zero increased upside.

And rightly or wrongly, this is what harrassment and assault allegations present.

Sadly, the article, like many others on this topic, doesn't suggest much in the way of solutions or even a path towards a solution, so here's my suggestion -- chaperoning. Or maybe a virtual version, with video cams everywhere, a la the UK.

I know, it sounds like I'm planning a middle-school dance.

<comment><USER7> I disagree, it did talk about ways of fixing it. One idea was to have a designated place for mentors and mentees to meet, so that it's normal for people to be seen meeting at that place one-on-one.

<comment><USER8> Please consider me properly chastised. I still think we should replace one-on- ones with something having better safeguards.</comment></comment></comment>


Radiohead disappoint (but not for the reason you might think!) - <AUTHOR> http://www.iqcontent.com/blog/2007/10/radiohead-disappoint--but-not-why-you-might-think- <comment><USER2> Yeah the web site was crap. I liked the design, but usability was bad. I also resented the input form for my address. How much is an address worth? I wanted to subtract that from the price I was prepared to pay...

</comment><comment><USER3> How do people like this always find something to complain about? Enjoy the brilliant, cheap album and complain about something that matters.</comment>


Surprise, BlackBerry PlayBook Sells More than XOOM & Galaxy Tab at Launch. - <AUTHOR> http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/225935/surprise_playbook_launch_a_success.html#tk.rss_smb

<comment><USER2> The tech reporter in my local paper made a great comment about the Playbook reviews. He just didn't think the issues the reviews were picking on were either relatable or cared for by the purchasers.

The things that I remember about the reviews were that nobody liked the power button, and it didn't have a native email app. The email app thing is strange, and how bad can a power button really be?

I'n keen to hear what return numbers are like in the coming weeks. That would probably tell more about the device than many of the professional reviews.

<comment><AUTHOR> I agree. Hardware-wise, it's a solid device. From what I've been reading, RIM seems on the ball with improving the software experience -- even issuing an update during launch week.

For people like, say, my mom, not having a native email client isn't a problem. She's used to navigating to the Hotmail website.

And for people who are looking at this as a business device, well if they're looking into the PlayBook, they likely have a BlackBerry they can bridge to and have access to native email in that fashion.

In a couple of months, after the issues have been ironed out, I see it as a definite contender.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I admit to being surprised, but maybe I'm just too blind to RIM.

Be curious to see how things shift once the Asus Transformer and the Tab 10.1 hit. I know I'm planning to check them out and see if either feels like it will fit my needs.

</comment><comment><USER4> These numbers are dubious: [http://tomstechblog.com/post/Blackberry-Playbook- Selling-Wel...](http://tomstechblog.com/post/Blackberry-Playbook-Selling-Well- After-All-Not-So-Faste280a6.aspx)

</comment><comment><USER5> Pretty surprising though. With the amount of stick the Playbook got before its release and all the adverts for the other two, didn't see that coming at all.</comment>


FB Busts Israeli Campaign to Affect Elections in Africa, Asia and S.America - <AUTHOR> https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/facebook-busts-israel-based-campaign-to-disrupt-elections-in-african-asian-nations-1.7249342 <comment><USER2> The original link's site is obnoxious with pop-ups and banners. Here's a better link: [https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/facebook-busts-israeli- co...](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/facebook-busts-israeli-companys- campaign-to-disrupt-elections)</comment>


Nokia to developers: no Qt for Windows Phone development - tomh- http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-notifies-developers-that-qt-is-out-for-windows-phone-devel/

<comment><AUTHOR> Well, this shows just how good are these buyouts by big corporations:

      1. create great product
      2. get people on board
      3. success
      4. get bought by BigCo
      5. ???
      6. get crushed when BigCo focuses on something else

<comment><USER2> Where was the success? If Nokias application development strategies were such a success they would not be doing this.

<comment><AUTHOR> The success was at Trolltech, before they got bought by Nokia.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Learning moment: developers can't be wedded to a particular technology. Qt is fantastic but it's not the business. We can't invest ourselves in companies that are floundering and Nokia has been floundering for a number of years.

If you find yourself investing your talents in a company that has multiple directional changes you need to consider the likelihood that the company will ever return to good times.

<comment><USER4> so by that logic:

\- if you develop for Palm WebOS, you're relying on company whose main business is selling printer ink

\- if you develop for Android, you're relying on company whose main business is selling ads

\- if you develop for iOS, you're relying on company whose main business is selling audiovisual content and portable players for it

then Microsoft IS the only company that you can rely on, since it's primary business is selling software?

<comment><USER3> _if you develop for Palm WebOS, you're relying on company whose main business is selling printer ink._

Yes, I would not develop for WebOS at this point.

 _if you develop for Android, you're relying on company whose main business is selling ads_

Yes but you are helping them to sell ads.

 _if you develop for iOS, you're relying on company whose main business is selling audiovisual content and portable players for it_

Yes, but you are adding value to their main product.

 _then Microsoft IS the only company that you can rely on, since it's primary business is selling software?_

I don't think so. In markets where Microsoft does not have a monopoly it has been quite willing to change directions irregardless of its impact on developers. For example Silverlight. In markets where they do have a monopoly well they have a monopoly. You can make money serving that monopoly with consulting but you can't do much with independent products.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Qt Android port: <http://code.google.com/p/android-lighthouse/>

</comment><comment> tomh- So, what will happen?

1) Qt c++ devs will invest in Visual Studio and learn silverlight/XNA

or

2) Qt c++ devs simply switch to c++ development for iOS + Android

<comment><USER6> I thought neither iOS or Android use C++?

<comment> tomh- Android now offers the possibility to create entire apps in C++ using the NDK. On iOS you can also use C++.

<comment><USER6> I did not know that :) So if you can use C++ on iOS, why the hell are people using the horror that is Objective-C?

<comment><USER7> On iOS C++ is generally only used when you don't need to make much use of the Cocoa Touch APIs. If you do, you will be using the hybrid 'Objective-C++' language, and you will still need to use some Objective-C.

See this Stackoverflow answer: [http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3804219/what-is-the- diffe...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3804219/what-is-the-difference- between-c-objective-c-and-objective-c/3804297#3804297)

Basically, it's probably easier and less messy to just learn Obj-C.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Isn't Qt covered under GPL? Could someone else run with it for their development platform? Or would there be patent problems etc?

<comment><USER9> I think Nokia even relicensed it under LGPL (<http://qt.nokia.com/products/licensing>). And Qt is made by a Norwegian company, and as far as I know at least the Norwegian patent office doesn't grant software patents. They might have patented it in other countries, though.

Makes me happy. Would be sad if a nice (commercial with GPL option) product had ended up as unusable for everything but GPL-ed applications.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> I just hope Qt doesn't die.

<comment><USER11> I don't hope so either. Although GTK is starting to look pretty nice with version 3, I've always preferred QT from both a a programming and UI perspective.

Nokia seems truely cluesless.. every day, another strategy

\- Maemo was GTK based

\- Nokia bought TrollTech

\- Maemo was said to be ported to QT

\- Maemo was abandoned for Meego

\- Now they're giving up Meego, and going to MS...

 _sigh_

<comment><USER12> Word to the wise: When you're flailing, that's when self awareness is the hardest. It's also when it's most valuable.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Related discussion, 111 days ago: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1820320>

</comment><comment><USER14> Why didn't they choose Android?

<comment><USER2> SE, Samsung, Motorola, HTC are all heavily invested in Android and are miles ahead of Nokia. They can chose to run an outside lane in that race, or they can lead up Windows Phone 7. All people with WP7 devices are just token efforts, Dell, LG aren't major players like the aforementioned companies are, HTC owe everything they have to Android. Nokia can take WP7 and become the market leader, with Microsoft investing heavily and Nokia providing world class hardware they can provide a point of differentiation as opposed to becoming one of the crowd.

<comment><USER15> I wouldn't say Samsung, Moto, and HTC are "miles ahead of Nokia". They're running essentially stock Android with crappy tack-ons that nobody cares for (when's the last time _any_ OEM's take on Android has received praise instead of complaint?), being glacially slow with updates...

With stock Android as a starting point and, well, a clue, Nokia can easily overtake Samsung, Moto, and HTC. Just by keeping good time with Google's own updates, and developing a customized Android UI that _doesn't suck_ , Nokia can pull ahead.

That being said, I think the WP7 choice isn't a bad one. At MS Nokia would be customer #1. At Google Nokia would be just another OEM.

<comment><USER16> you forget that carriers decide updates, not the manufacturer.

<comment><USER15> Not for Apple. OTA updates are great, but if the carriers don't play ball customers should still be able to plug their phones in and easily upgrade.

WP7 has the advantage of having Apple-style end-to-end integration, giving them a _very_ natural place to issue non-OTA updates.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> No native code on WP7 is for me a major downturn. To port my apps to WP7 I'd have to do a complete rewrite - and that's work I won't do for an unproven market/platform.</comment>


Symbian-Guru.com Is Over - <AUTHOR> http://www.symbian-guru.com/welcome/2010/07/symbian-guru-com-is-over.html

<comment><USER4> I worked as an intern at one of the Nokia's branches (won't tell you where, but it's in N.A.) in a city where there are quite a few Symbian software houses. I talked to a few Symbian developers and they absolutely hate it with passion. We're not talking technology for technology sake but more like "Business wise, it's not worth it unless you'd want your workers to suffer productivity nightmare".

My (short) time at this particular Nokia branch wasn't glowing with roses either; they just laid off several hundreds of their employees and slowly but sure inserting contractors, moving some part of their departments to 3rd world countries.

Their development process was really slow: they'll get their Baseline (I never really sure what it consists of even after I talked to quite a few people but I'm guessing it's the Symbian OS with some standard API/Libraries/Framework toolkits) from Finland once every 2 weeks. Then they would have to merge their code to this Baseline and deal with whatever problems come up.

During the last 2 weeks I was there, some high-level management guy came from Europe. He would gathered everybody to a room to do some sort of All-Hands meeting. In this meeting, he would announce some organization structure "roadmap". I find it strange; instead of talking about the products, this roadmap discussed the company's plan to expand to China and India (DING DING DING!). Of course the guy would immediately told us all that "there won't be any lay-off". But you get the idea...

Here it is... the outcome of such environment: unhappy customers.

It's hard to beat Android that seems to operate in a more Agile way where the workers are far more enthusiastic and passionate.

<comment><USER5> After some 8 arduous years of dicking around with the horribly broken Symbian/S60, Nokia finally realized in 2008 that their software process sucks and is fundamentally unable to deliver a competitive mobile app platform. Their solution was to purchase a smaller, nimbler company with a ready product, and let the subsidiary produce the user-visible framework more or less independently of the suffocating Nokia structure.

After two years, they've finally shipped the first SDK which targets existing devices with the new framework. It's actually pretty nice: <http://www.forum.nokia.com/Develop/Qt>

However, these transitions simply take a long time. Apple purchased NeXT in late 1996, and the first usable Mac OS X release appeared almost five years later.

Nokia has split their "OS X moment" into two separate operating systems: Symbian^4 and MeeGo. But neither is ready yet. Meanwhile Nokia investors are getting very antsy: over the past decade, Nokia's stock has lost over 80% of its value, or something like $200 billion in market cap... If the Qt transition stumbles, heads will roll in Espoo.

<comment><USER4> I never follow the company anymore ever since I left. While I have no bitter feeling since I was there only for 4 months for the fun, name, and to know what's inside, it strikes me that they don't have a very strong grasp of anything. The market, the talent, the process.

I do think that they need to trim down quick. I know that might have hurt their stocks like a kick in the groin, but they've already lost a lot of their stock values. They should do some sort of reboot and becoming an underdog. Slim down that confusing offerings. Back then, they have tons of numbering systems that confuses people who happen to have interaction (reading news, chat, or whatever) with other people that live in different countries.

In Country A, the model might be called E1234, in different parts of the world, the model might be called E1235. The capabilities differ by tiny margin. It just doesn't make any sense. It might be because of regulation or whatnot, but very confusing.

If Microsoft offering is confusing, you should check Nokia's.

Currently, they have nothing other than cheap cellphone to be sold to Asian markets. I happen to be born in another part of the world. Back at my home country, Nokia is still strong because they sell cheap unlocked cellphone (coincidentally, the providers aren't operating like N.A. providers). Having said that, the mid-to-upper level economy population are full of BB users (weird isn't it, not Android, not iPhone, but BB).

BB at least has this "PIN" thing (I don't have a BB so I don't know much about it) where I noticed that most of my high-school friends are exchanging PIN, or exchanging stuff within BB. So I'm assuming there's some sort of ability for BB to have a "soft" vendor lock-in. Nokia has nothing other than cheap price.

I think they're almost done.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I too feel bad for Symbian. I did my first mobile dev on my Nokia N70 phone which I still have (bought my HTC Desire a week ago).

I can only see 2 reasons here...

1.) Too much fragmentation. Fragmentation in android is nothing compared to slaughtering in symbian phones.

2.) No unified app store for developers. And that's probably due to #1

And #1 and #2 made it pretty easy for others to compete after apple showed the way.

All the above is not true for India though. Nokia seems to very popular even today. HTC is almost non-existent. And the BlackBerry only with the executives at corps. Palm is unheard of. iMate was once popular among the rich and classy and it's almost dead.

Nokia, Samsung and Sony can still happily sell their non-Android phones here and people would grab it happily.

Whatever, the nokia label would take a while to fade here in India until Android phones or iphones become goat-nut cheap. We've been having a slew of low cost manufacturers of phones with high-end features (touch screen, accelerometers etc) with products almost half the price of a nokia low-end smart phone. And still a lot prefer Nokia.

IMHO I would surely credit Nokia and Symbian for making some of the first easy to use devices. My mom who's been using a Sony phone for the past 6 months still can't figure it out quickly like she did the Nokia 1100 (!!) a few years ago. And I loved my N70 (S60 2nd edition FP3) when I first bought it. But again I have similar experience as Rick mentioned in the blog post - <USER2> Memory and processor. And when I had 100 songs, the music player took ages to open. Like around 10 seconds.

I'm forced to mention that HTC, which has released the most number of Android phones has a clear website. Clean, simple to navigate and use and no conflicting pages offering different info on the same topic like Nokia's site. Takes only a 2 clicks max to reach the support page of my phone on the HTC site. The same would take a minimum of half a dozen clicks on Nokia's site even after going thru google.

P.S: Offtopic - just check out <http://www.imate.com/> for some fun. I have on idea why iMate has been busy making a phone that meets U.S Military Standards? :P (or am i wrong and every phone in the US has to meet U.S Military standard?)

EDIT: Wikipedia says i-mate is now defunct <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-mate>

<comment><USER7> FWIW, i-mate was never a phone manufacturer, it just resold phones made by others. For most of its existence, the company sold HTC phones under licence in some of the territories where HTC did not have a brand presence. This ended once HTC started selling phones under its own brand.

And a minor nitpick, but Symbian was limited to Nokia's smart phone range, their low-to-mid-end phones run either Series 30 or Series 40 which are far more basic yet far more responsive software platforms that are not based on Symbian, unlike Series 60. To be honest, I've never been impressed with Nokia's smart phones, as I've found their implementation of Symbian to be slow and buggy with a clumsy UI. This is in sharp contrast to their S30 and S40 phones, which quite justifiably have a reputation for performance and no- nonsense ease of use.

<comment><USER8> Symbian wasn't limited to Nokia phones until they took over the whole project and created S60. I had Symbian UIQ3 on my Sony P1i.

<comment><USER7> Which is why I referred to it as Nokia's implementation of Symbian, by which I meant S60. At the time the N70 was released Symbian was not controlled by any one company, with both Nokia and Sony Ericsson controlling the majority of shares in Symbian Ltd, although Nokia had strong control over S60.

Aside from a few half-hearted attempts from Samsung and LG, the only really ambitious attempt by a company other than Nokia to use S60 was Siemens with the SX1. Unfortunately it was not much of a success, due in no small part to the odd keypad layout. So for all intents and purposes, S60 equalled Nokia.

UIQ, similarly, was driven primarily by Sony Ericsson although it was owned (till 2007) by Symbian Ltd. Unlike S60, which was in some ways a scaling up of Nokia's dumb phone interface to a smart phone, UIQ was designed from the start for stylus-based touch input. But both co-existed, with the SE P800 and the Nokia 7650 having launched as far back as the second half of 2002. I always preferred UIQ, to be honest.

Both S60 and UIQ were abandoned when Nokia bought out the other Symbian Ltd partners in 2008.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I worked on a Symbian application a few years ago. Symbian C++ IDE (Carbide C++) costed 1,300 euros in 2007. Some S60 APIs are only available to Nokia partners (costs money). Now combine it with antiquated and poorly documented API, and the most godawful SDK and the simulator known to man.

Is it any wonder that Symbian has stagnated as a platform without any hope of recovery?

I know the IDE is now free and the simulator is about to be replaced with a new QEMU-based one, but it's a little too late.

</comment><comment><USER10> I understand that. I have an N97 and it is a dog. I hate it. 32 Gig E: drive which is plenty, but the C: drive has around 100 Meg or so, around 50 free, and after using it for a week it is straight down to 10, after a month it sits around 5 and you get errors all the time and you have to do a hard reset which takes it back to 50 so you can use it again.

I don't even use it as more than a phone anymore because it is not worth installing anything and using up the c: drive.

I intend to switch to Android.

<comment><USER11> <em> I have an N97</em>

I feel so sorry for you. A few years ago I really wanted one but the people that already had them told me not to do it to myself.

<comment><USER12> Second example of funky italics I've seen today. You want to use _asterisks_ :)

See: <http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I've used Nokia for a long time and I can't remember a phone that didn't have SOME annoyance. My e72 has several.

I'm looking forward to MeeGo, a true Linux mobile computer. Neither Android nor the iPhone cut it for me so far. The iphone is great fun, but too locked up and hyped, I hate hype and fashion. I don't like Android because I think that it's just one more piece in Google's plan for world data domination. Still, they are both compelling pieces of tech.

Ultimately, Apple, Nokia and Google are all corporations. Feeling attachment for them is a mistake.

<comment><USER14> You do realize that being anti-hype and anti-fashion is fashionable nowadays? ;)

<comment><USER13> I dislike hype and fashion because it is not rational, promotes strong emotions over judgement and it is costly for us as a society.

You could almost feel this guy's soul tear while writing this. For what, a phone? A corporation?

When the market slams Nokia in the face, they will feel it, not when a fanboy jumps ship. And Nokia is getting slammed pretty badly right now.

They need to control the Os less they become a comodity producer like Htc and Moto already are. Sony didn't go full-android, but they're a shadow of themselves. We'll see...

Nokia have their hopes set on Qt and MeeGo and that looks fine to me, even if I don't know whether they will ultimately succeed or fail.

<comment><USER14> I agree, the point I was trying to make was that deciding to _not_ buy a phone because it's fashionable is a fashion statement in itself. If the iPhone 4 is good, why not buy it regardless of how (over)hyped it is? Then again, I do see ideological/technical reasons not to buy the iPhone, for instance due to its closed nature.

I think Nokia could have challenged Apple if they had fully focused on Maemo when they first released the 770, and developed a culture of making better, more bug-free software. Now, I'm not so sure. Android has taken the place that Maemo could have had. Steve Jobs was actually right when he said that smartphones had "baby software" during the iPhone introduction - and the mobile industry didn't realize it at that point because _everyone_ were making baby software for their phones until Apple came along.

The people complaining that Apple didn't use the Newton OS for the iPhone doesn't realize that Apple would have been in the same position if they had (regardless of all the innovative features of the Newton).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I had a talk about a year ago with a developer working for Nokia, regarding the future of Symbian. There seems to be some understanding within the company about the issues facing Symbian, which is why we've seen Maemo and Meego. Nokia does, however, seem to lack the nimbleness and daring to really abandon Symbian quickly.

</comment><comment><USER16> People always trash Steve Jobs over the "walled garden" of the iPhone, but this looks like _exactly_ what he wants to avoid.

Of course if all the problems he was talking about came from apps that are part of the phone then I guess my point doesn't apply to this specific article (though I could see this happening if the Nokia apps were good but the downloadable ones weren't).

<comment><USER17> Total false dichotomy, you don't have to become nokia if you open your garden. It may be what he wants to avoid but it's not true that opening the garden will automatically result in customer dissatisfaction (otherwise why would Android market share be growing?)

<comment><USER18> > (otherwise why would Android market share be growing?)

Because it's the least-awful alternative if you don't want to go to AT&T. People will live with bad things or bad situations quite well, if they believe they have no choice.

ETA: Of course, for them to have 'no choice' but to go Android, they have to perceive AT&T and/or an iPhone as unacceptable, as well as the other alternatives.

<comment><USER19> How did you come to that conclusion? I can only speak for myself.

I have been using iphone for 2 years now and I don't see myself getting another one. When I do get another phone (mine working just fine right now) I will move to android based device as soon as my contract is up.

And no I am not leaving because of AT&T, unlike most people my coverage has been fairly good even here in NY. The main reason I am leaving iphone is because I don't like being told how I can use my phone and what I can install, putting artificial limitations. And most importantly, I love having more than one choice.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Symbian, Palm (HP), Microsoft, even BlackBerry. In the long run it doesn't look like these guys stand a chance any more, does it?

<comment><USER20> I wouldn't write of BB. Exchange clients are commoditized: BES clients aren't. BB would never release a phone requiring holding in a particular way - <USER3> take things very seriously. They also know they've fucked up on web browsing and have the brains to scrap their old shit.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> One of the biggest problem with Symbian development is strings. I mean what the @@@@, do the C++ programmers have less string types to deal with that they introduced six of their own? That scared me, only reason why I asked my boss to switch me to other non-Symbian project. It was a complete nightmare.

</comment><comment><USER22> "I also can't continue to support a mobile operating system platform that continually buries itself into oblivion by focusing on 'openness' while keeping a blind eye towards the obvious improvements that other open platforms have had for several iterations."

I could not agree more!

</comment><comment><USER23> _Like watching your favorite sports team lose game after game after game. Eventually, even the most die-hard sports fans have to find a new team._

Apparently this guy is not a Cleveland fan.

</comment><comment><USER24> after reading his piece I did the obvious thing next:

checked android-guru.com

Yep, somebody's running there! Getting a 404 though.

</comment><comment><USER25> Heart filling post. I never owned a nokia phone neither did I read the blog. But something about the two authors losing there passion for something they loved so dearly makes me feel sad.

Its funny that this got posted here. My friends and I were discussing just this morning. Everybody agreed that all nokia phones were sluggish and had ugly interface. My personal opinion is that fastest phones are released by Samsung(this might be biased as I use a Samsung Corby) and the best quality in accessories like camera and music is from sony ericsson.(Remember that we were talking about low budget phones so that rules out Nexus One and iPhone). I have used N97 myself and found it sluggish and ugly. Sure I was first excited by the hinged slider screen, but apart from that there is nothing special about it.

BTW the nokia phone I like the most would definitely be 1108. Sure its black and white but its fast, it has high quality of signal and it so reliable that even if I throw it on the wall and put the pieces back together it would bloody _work_.</comment>


Heraldry Generation Pt. 1: Basics - <AUTHOR> https://www.benovermyer.com/post/heraldry-pt-1/ <comment><USER2> it would be nice to have a full NLP system that could parse and generate coats of arms automatically, having been trained on a large collection of existing coats.</comment>


Are wind and solar and batteries the future for US electricity? - <AUTHOR> https://cloverly.com/blog/does-wind-solar-batteries-the-future-for-us-electricity/ <comment><USER2> I think we're designing for the wrong thing.

We should have nuclear going at 120% of demand and use the exess power to support electricity based carbon capture devices.

<comment><USER3> It's too late. Solar and wind have the popularity and the momentum. They won. The base cost to solar is also much, much cheaper than nuclear, making it easier to practically implement. And solar/wind is a better long term solution anyway in that we don't have to worry about waste management, safety, maintenance, etc. It can also be extremely decentralized.

<comment><USER4> there's no time to ramp up on solar unfortunately. solar requires a massive amount of area and should ideally also be built for purposes of reuse, as they do expire and need to be replaced.

there's not enough solar and batteries that exist today to capture the needed electricity. and we need energy today - not "sort of in the future" \- or else there are likely to be mass deaths starting in 2050 or so when clean water is due to become an issue, assuming status quo until then (which is highly unlikely as well)

<comment><USER5> _" solar requires a massive amount of area"_

The US, for instance, has massive amounts of undeveloped land. The majority of the population live in cities, which only make up a tiny fraction of the land mass (as you can see if you've ever flown across the US).

<comment><USER2> Its undeveloped for a reason, its wildlife habitat. Nuclear needs no such wide footprint.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> In April on phys.org:

"The growing demand for minerals and metals to build the electric vehicles, solar arrays, wind turbines and other renewable energy infrastructure necessary to meet the ambitious goals of the Paris Climate Agreement could outstrip current production rates for key metals by as early as 2022, according to new research by the UTS Institute for Sustainable Futures.

The study, commissioned and funded by U.S. non-profit organisation EarthWorks, shows that as demand for minerals such as lithium and rare earths skyrockets, the already significant environmental and human impacts of hardrock mining are likely to rise steeply as well."

[https://phys.org/news/2019-04-exposes-extent-mineral- demand-...](https://phys.org/news/2019-04-exposes-extent-mineral-demand- renewable.html)

More renewable infrastructure = more mining. I don't know if this is an example of the laws of thermodynamics, but nothing comes for free. I think it's relevant when comparing turbine, solar array and tide capture equipment to nuclear. Also relevant to policy decisions about domestic mining - preventing mining doesn't mean demand drops, it means we source minerals from other nations that may or may not respect clean and responsible mining techniques.

Just because we do less fossil fuel extraction doesn't mean we get away from natural resource development. It's a question of which is preferable, why, and how to do it in the most responsible fashion; but acknowledging the link between messy, ground-dwelling resource extraction and our electronics is not one that captures much public attention today.

And so I think more and more about nuclear power.

<comment><USER7> Yes, but one can make the same argument about nearly anything since nothing comes in to existence without some set of inputs. It's not some unique attribute of renewable energy infrastructure that it requires resources to build. That's just an attribute of anything, be it houses or cars or medical equipment or toilet paper. There is, however, a unique characteristic of renewable energy infrastructure that separates it from all the other crap we build on an global scale, and that is that if we don't built it we are essentially doomed.

<comment><USER6> Right, that's why I'm suggesting it's an element of comparison between nuclear and "renewables". I really don't know which has a greater burden of resource extraction. You need a lot of electronics to build a nuclear plant, but you need a lot of discrete electronic devices to build wind farms, solar arrays and the like. That's an interesting question of environmental cost to me, but either tech there is still resource extraction going on and I just think it's frequently a missing element of the discussion in the context of environmental policy. For instance, people protesting the approval of new mining projects in the US - okay, but where are you going to get the minerals that are in demand? A place where the regulatory oversight is lessened? Is that really the most responsible approach to resource development or just a NIMBY attitude?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> 95% of it according to John Deutch

[https://youtu.be/PA8OzmiP9_4](https://youtu.be/PA8OzmiP9_4)

</comment><comment><USER8> Nice to see a Birmingham based startup - let's hope they're hiring soon!</comment>


Cheap & Good Windows 8 Ultrabook Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga 11S Available at $799 - <AUTHOR> http://wind8apps.com/lenovo-ideapad-yoga-11s-price-availability/

<comment><AUTHOR> I'll buy it if I had the dough!

<comment><USER2> you should, it's pretty good

</comment></comment><comment><USER2> you get quite a lot for $799. great value for your money. thanks for the share

<comment><AUTHOR> My pleasure!</comment></comment>


Hidden gems in Mac OS X - <AUTHOR> http://dtrace.org/blogs/brendan/2011/10/10/top-10-dtrace-scripts-for-mac-os-x/ <comment><USER3> Not sure if it qualifies as a "hidden gem" in OS X itself, but the new Signature management in Preview, using the built in iSight to scan a handwritten sig off a sheet of paper, is an amazing time saver.

// Number 8, bitesize.d, rocks.

<comment><USER4> This article is not like a lifehacker "10 neato things to be more productive on your mac" article. It's specifically about using DTrace to get detailed statistics on processes making system calls.

It's also several months old :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Honestly, so far none of these have been the major performance bottleneck on my Macbook. For me, it's been RAM. Even though I have 4 GB of RAM, I have at least 3 GB wired or active at any given time - Chrome alone takes up roughly 1 GB of it, with all its helper processes. But unfortunately I really have no idea how to bring my RAM usage down.

<comment><USER6> I had the same issue, and seriously: buy more RAM. A 2x4G kit from Crucial cost me $45 shipped.

<comment><USER7> And it's not much more of a financial leap to get to 16gb in a MacBook. 16.

<comment><USER8> I did not know some models were capable of supporting 16gb of RAM. Unfortunately, I don't think I have one of those models (I think I got mine in 2009). This is good to know, though.

<comment><USER7> I didn't know either, I'm actually not sure if 16 is officially supported, since Apple said my Macbook was only capable of 8. Crucial has a tool you can download to check compatibility with their various products and your specific macbook model.

<comment><USER9> Only specific, later generation models of Apple laptops can use 16 GB of RAM. It is NOT officially supported, but it works. The thermal profile likely hasn't been certified by Apple to the point they are comfortable supporting it, but it works at the electrical and logic signal levels.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> One of the features that differentiated Macs from Windows early on for me was how they systemized PDFs. Not only could it read and write PDFs, it was eager to do so.

<comment><USER11> It's really easy to create PDFs from Apple's built-in Quartz 2D drawing engine (of the Core Graphics framework). That probably has a lot to do with it.

<comment><USER12> And the reason for that is because NeXT used PostScript for rendering - <USER2> the same language for displaying on-screen as on paper. When NeXTStep became OSX PDF was used instead (I believe because of a bust up between Steve Jobs and Adobe over licensing)

<comment><USER10> OS9 seemed to have great PDF support if I remember.

Is what you say the reason macs are preferred for desktop publishing?

<comment><USER12> It's going back a while but I believe it was the graphical nature of Macs, coupled with the LaserWriter printer that made DTP important for Macs. Which in turn prompted the use of Postscript in NeXTstep.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Is there anything that lets you view how much network _bandwidth_ an application is using? I've looked before with no luck.

<comment><USER14> Since Lion, nettop ships with the system. Hit d to switch to delta instead of total usage, p for human-readable numbers, and left arrow to collapse into process names.

<comment><USER15> Awesome tip. Thanks!!!

</comment></comment></comment><comment> brown9-2 About "why is my Macbook fan so loud?", has anyone successfully attempted to clean out dust from inside the laptop to reduce the fan noise?

<comment><USER16> I did on my older MacbookPro5,1. It didn't even seem like I dislodged much dust, but it made a huge difference. Now the fans don't go above 3-4000 rpm even with the cpu pegged, which is quiet. Before it would consistently spin the fan at max speed even with modest cpu use. This old beast is far quieter under load than the new MacBook Air 13" I had for a week and returned.

<comment><USER17> I'd suggest downloading smcFanControl. That's what I use on my MB Pro, and it works well. You can set different modes that will keep the fan at or below a certain RPM. If I'm gaming, I let it go up to 6200 rpm. If I'm not doing much (like now, just browsing on the internet and maybe running a couple other programs) I drop it to 3000rpm. That usually puts me around 45* C and keeps it nice and quiet. Then I've got a middle setting at about 4200rpm that makes some noise, but isn't quite as obnoxious as full throttle.

<comment><USER18> +1 from me: smcFanControl is seriously handy if you do any sort of coding on a macbook. Was recently running a genetic algorithm on it and the app allowed me to bump the fan speed up to something ridiculous in order to keep the cpu at a comfortable temperature. I also tend to raise the speed if I'm watching flash video, since that's still ridiculously cpu intensive on a mac...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Excellent list, one of those things that I keep coming back to hacker news for.

</comment><comment><USER20> Nice one. Getting to know DTrace was on my todo list for the next few moths.

</comment><comment><USER21> >> Why Unix? Mac OS X is Unix under the hood: the Darwin kernel

Just beeing pedantic but I think Darwin is the operating system, not the kernel. The kernel is Mach 3.

<comment><USER22> Well if we're being pedants about it, then the kernel is XNU ( <http://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-1699.24.23/> )

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> I once tried to look into dtrace because I was missing strace from Linux. I gave up when I realized I had to learn a whole language just to do what strace did for me on Linux.

Now I'm enlightened to see there is dtruss. It works different than strace and needs privileges, but I'm glad that I've found the strace alternative.

<comment><USER24> dtrace is not supposed to replace strace on Linux. It's allows you track and process all sorts of parameters of your operating system and it's programs. It's essentially a quick way to introspect into your application without tons of printf hacks, and get to the buttom of bugs and performance issues.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> I never knew about this tool--my mind has been blown. Thank you OP!</comment>


AirBnB units drop by 74% due to SF regulations - <AUTHOR> http://m.sfgate.com/business/article/Airbnb-loses-thousands-of-hosts-in-SF-as-12496624.php?t=1be8549d57 <comment><USER2> Vancouver is about to do the same with a new bylaw governing short term rentals. The cause is an unbelievable shortage of actual long term rentals for people who live in the city. But the cause of THAT shortage is not AirBnB. It's rampant speculation by both locals and foreign investors.

Rather than fix the tricky speculation issue, government focused on Airbnb. IMHO this will hurt both cities by making it more expensive to visit.

<comment><USER3> If you own a property, why not just rent it for cash flow? What's the benefit of letting a property sit vacant? So the property owner doesn't have to deal with finding tenants and property wear and tear?

<comment><USER4> If property value appreciation is significant (in SF, about 12% in 2017) the benefit of renting out (AirBnB or otherwise) may actually be minimal - as you said, the overhead of finding and managing the rental. $3k/month on a rental makes you far less than just 12% appreciation on a $1.5M place.

<comment><USER5> Where are you getting 12% appreciation from? Paragon ([https://www.paragon- re.com/trend/san-francisco-home-prices-m...](https://www.paragon- re.com/trend/san-francisco-home-prices-market-trends-news)) shows it at 7% for houses and 5% for condos. That's ~6% after property taxes (assuming recently set cost basis) or $90k/year. Maintenance, HOA fees (if any) further drop this return. (Besides future appreciation isn't something you can bank on..)

A $1.5M home should rent for at least $4.2k (P/R ratio of 30). That's $50k a year, smaller than the appreciation of $90k but still very significant. The only reason I see to not at least hire a rental management company to do the renting for you is if you are subject to rent control and fear not being able to evict the tenant/raise their rents.

<comment><USER4> [https://www.zillow.com/san-francisco-ca/home- values/](https://www.zillow.com/san-francisco-ca/home-values/) \- 12.8% last year and projected lower this year.

The reason I have a lower rent figure is that rents haven't gone up as quickly, as much of the new construction has been focused on rental stock.

<comment><USER5> Thanks for the citation. I'm a bit skeptical of Zillow's numbers; they look pretty volatile (e.g. they show 2016 with 0% appreciation)

Anyway, according to zillow last 2 years is 7% average - and since depth of recession 8 years ago, 8.6%. 12.8% is likely a statistical abnormality. (Of note 10 year average is 5% vs. ~8.5% for SP-500 index funds)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> The most significant points (that weren't discussed ad nauseam in previous discussions over the last few years) from the article:

"About 2,000 people listed their homes but never rented to tourists." The percentage is artificially skewed by the effects of eliminating stale listings, and the real effect attributable to regulation is less significant than the headline suggests.

"San Francisco charges a $250 registration fee plus a $90 business registration fee for all hosts." This is a scarier prospect for AirBnB and other companies. If $340 is really enough to scare off a significant percentage of people, how much are these hosts making?

<comment><USER7> > If $340 is really enough to scare off a significant percentage of people, > how much are these hosts making?

It's not the money. It's the fact that you will be _on record_ and people can check up on you.

All this tells me is that a huge chunk of the AirBnB folks _actually knew_ when they were in violation of something and, now that they might get caught, have decided that AirBnB really isn't worth it anymore.

<comment><USER8> > _It 's not the money. It's the fact that you will be on record and people > can check up on you._

And beyond the compliance checking here and now, it also means you're subject to and pre-registered for any and all forthcoming regulation.

I think, though, it's only fair. If private rentals are gonna compete with hotels then private rentals need to start addressing some of the issues we have regulated mostly out of existence with how hotels used to be. Like having a registered business, or perhaps the right kind of insurance, or the right kinds of fire safety systems that are monitored on a schedule. Business ain't easy, and shortcuts are how we get unthinkable tragedies. It's only fair the economics of AirBnB hosts reflect that.

<comment><USER7> > I think, though, it's only fair.

Oh, I agree. Things like "pest control" are really damn important to people living around you.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> I think one the most impactful parts of the regulation is getting your landlord's ok. God knows how many people were doing AirBnB knowing either their landlord would not be ok with it or their lease strictly forbidding it.

<comment><USER9> I think this will basically kill AirBnBs for any sizable multi-tenant building, which is basically 90% of the inventory in certain areas of the city. I don't know of _any_ condo associations or professionally-managed apartment buildings that allow short-term rentals.

Sure, single family homes or very small condo units (e.g. just a couple units where the owners all know each other) may allow it, but if other cities take this lead it will be a large, significant blow to AirBnB.

<comment><USER10> Well they exist and they list on airbnb. Forget where but I noticed a whole bunch of very similar looking listing and I thought it was spam at first but realized it was just an apartment/condo complex putting their unleased inventory to work. Kinda smart I guess?

<comment><USER11> In many cases, this isn't people renting out unused inventory. It's landlords taking their apartments out of circulation for long-term tenants in order to rent to short-term tenants on AirBnB. Think about it - an Airbnb listing has to be furnished, so the landlord has to make a decent investment in order to put such a listing on the market. It's not like they're furnishing apartments in between tenants moving in/out to get a few night's rent.

This is also really unfriendly to tenants, you now have a bunch of strangers traipsing through the hallways with no relationship or accountability to the neighbors.

<comment><USER12> > This is also really unfriendly to tenants, you now have a bunch of strangers > traipsing through the hallways with no relationship or accountability to the > neighbors.

The root of the problem is that tourists have diverging interests compared to locals, because they don't have to share the same building for many years. In situations where agents have to deal again and again, tit-for-tat works. But not where they meet just once.

It should be solved by good reputation tracking over rentals, so they don't escape responsibility - maybe reputation tracking should be outside the hands of a private company that has an interest in the game, like an independent organisation.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Internet technologies have been constantly disrupting the rule of law for individual interests.

I have no political statement to make about it, but there are so many issues between the internet and the law: content copyright, airbnb, uber, money laundering with bitcoin... If you're a technologist, I can clearly see how a libertarian agenda fits perfectly.

Governments are not following on technologies to take advantage of them, or at least not quickly enough...

</comment><comment><USER14> Would it be possible to clarify the title as currently posted? It's ambiguous whether the _price_ or _quantity_ of units dropped by 74%.

<comment><USER15> I'm actually not sure I saw anything in the article that actually provides that figure - but it looks like it is meant to be the quantity.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Chicago has hard a hard time enforcing its ordinance: [http://www.chicagobusiness.com/realestate/20171218/CRED03/17...](http://www.chicagobusiness.com/realestate/20171218/CRED03/171219896/airbnb- scofflaws-evade-chicago-officials)

Hopefully SF's measure has more teeth.

<comment><USER17> "HOW DO THEY SLIP THROUGH? - The problem: The city has yet to rule on about 1,300 applications that are missing a unit number or specific address. Until the new ordinance required that Airbnb collect that information, most hosts would list their home without an address or specific location, one way to avoid detection if the unit was in a building that prohibited vacation rentals. It's possible that some hosts deliberately filed an application without an address, hoping it would allow them to stay one step ahead of city regulators."

Interesting you brought this up. Unless the listing is unbelievably attractive, a listing without a number or address just seems sketchy to me. Makes me think its the analog of a hourly rented motel.

<comment><USER18> Airbnb usually doesn't show the exact address to the customer before you've rented it, or at least it doesn't make it easy to find. I've always assumed this was to make it a little harder for landlords, neighbours or regulators to see that a property was being listed without their permission.

If you're visiting an unfamiliar city and the place has good reviews, I don't see anything sketchy about only being able to narrow down the location to within a few hundred metres.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> These are not burdensome regulations. And, as was mentioned in this discussion, Airbnb makes the registration easy. So clearly the reduction is from (a) illegals getting out of the act, and (b) activation energy barrier of that registration fee.

</comment><comment><USER20> Glad I'm leaving SF. Way too much red tape and too little freedom. One one hand it touts innovation, and with the other it strangles it. Typical government interference for the bad.

<comment><USER21> "WARNING: This comment contains ideas known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm."

<comment><USER22> I once got a swag-bag at a job interview in Switzerland. It contained a long thin object with just such a Californian warning on it. I was hoping it would be a giant glow stick or a rocket. You something with actual chemicals in it. But it turned out to just be a selfie stick.

<comment><USER23> At this point, we may as well put one of those stickers on the entire State of California.

"WARNING: The State of California contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer, birth defects, or other reproductive harm."

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> I mean not everyone will have a chance right away to register their listings. Give it a month or so, then check back on the numbers.

</comment><comment><USER25> I just read in Amsterdam they are introducing regulation that limits airbnb rentals to max 30 days/year.

<comment><USER26> A friend of mine rents out her apartment using Airbnb and I remember it was a max of 60 days p/y. Are they reducing it?

EDIT: Yea it looks like the city is reducing the legal number of days someone can rent out something via Airbnb [0,1]

[0] [https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/10/amsterdam-to-halve- airbnb-...](https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/10/amsterdam-to-halve-airbnb-style- tourist-rentals-to-30-nights-a-year-per-host/)

[1] [https://www.engadget.com/2018/01/10/amsterdam-airbnb- rental-...](https://www.engadget.com/2018/01/10/amsterdam-airbnb- rental-30-day-limit/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> I'd be interested to understand two things:

1) How has the average price for similar priced airbnb offerings changed pre and post regulations

2) How do vacancy rates for airbnb offerings in SF change following the purge?

I can see trends in both directions. Would be an interesting empirical analysis of how supply changes outcomes.

</comment><comment><USER28> downside: less air bnb

upside: maybe more housing available

<comment><USER29> Almost certainly not. Many people in SF avoid long term rentals very much on purpose, because of the city's comical tenant protection laws.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Hmm... so it used to be just 8453 rentals for a large city. It was a drop in the bucket.

</comment><comment><USER30> Not surprising. Airbnb (and similar services) will lead to such abuse.</comment>


A visual explanation of the Fourier transform with audio and JS - <AUTHOR> https://acko.net/files/gltalks/toolsforthought/ <comment><USER2> VERY well done!

<comment><AUTHOR> Isn't mine :)</comment></comment>


What do you use for Fuzzing (generation and mutation) Peach Fuzzer - <AUTHOR> http://www.peachfuzzer.com/ <comment><AUTHOR> I'm looking into solution for fuzz testing and I'm wondering if folks are using peachfuzzer or just using PREFAST, and FXCop. What are the pros and cons of peachfuzzer?</comment>


Show HN: UrbanOctaves – Pandora for local music - <AUTHOR> https://www.urbanoctaves.com/ <comment><AUTHOR> This is a music player that finds music for all the bands playing shows on a given night. You can use it to discover new bands, and for finding shows when you're in the mood for live music.

Let me know what you think!</comment>


Russian peasant multiplication - <AUTHOR> http://everything2.com/title/Russian+peasant+multiplication <comment><USER2> Schemes like this multiplication technique are fascinating, the patterns one can see are beautiful. The fact they are not taught in schools is scandalous. Their use is actively discouraged.

My Dad bought me a book about the Trachtenberg System of Basic Mathematics[1] when I was a kid, it had all sorts of funky new ways to solve maths problems just like this. My primary school hated it, they marked me down for not showing my working and doing it the wrong way. I was brilliant at maths mainly because of this book, but didn't get the extra marks for doing it the "right" way.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trachtenberg_system>

<comment><USER3> Thank you. I too read that book as a child but I couldn't remember what it was called.

The only beef I had with the idea in it was that it was difficult to understand why they worked, compared to standard multiplication.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I used this a lot while writing a 16bit math system for the NES. A similar trick to this is Egyptian Division (<http://everything2.com/title/Egyptian+division>)

</comment><comment><USER5> This can also be used for powers. Square instead of doubling, multiply instead of adding, and it works for matrices as well as numbers.

<comment><USER6> Of course this also works with bases other than two for your underlying number system. Or with mixed approaches.

In general, there's no known algorithm for finding x^n with the fewest numbers of multiplications in time polynomial in O(log n), i.e. the size of the representation of n.

(I can't remember whether the problem was (co-)NP complete, or even how to construct the certificate to proof that the problem is in NP or perhaps co-NP. Though I'd bet on it being in NP.)

And then you can also think about balancing the number of multiplications and the number of intermediate results you have to store.

<comment><USER7> Is this what you meant: Addition Chain Exponentiation; in general, performs better than binary exponentiation, but it could be very hard to find an addition chain for a given exponent: :-)

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addition-chain_exponentiation>

<comment><USER6> Yes, thanks!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Take a look at Vedic Mathematics <http://www.vedicmaths.org/introduction/tutorial/tutorial.asp>. There are sixteen Sutras or principles that provide interesting hacks for quick "in your head" Arithmetic.

<comment><USER9> As an interesting aside, the algorithm for multiplication is algebraically identical in both methods.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Somewhat related: An elementary method of fast multiplication of large integers:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karatsuba_multiplication>

</comment><comment> Andrew-Dufresne Polish Hand Magic is also an interesting trick to do multiplications: [http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=parents- cor...](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=parents-corner- polish-han) A comic illustrating the trick: [http://www.smbc- comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1914#c...](http://www.smbc- comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1914#comic)

</comment><comment><USER11> looks similar to the method used by the ancient Romans

<http://www.phy6.org/outreach/edu/roman.htm>

</comment><comment><USER12> I've always enjoyed the "Mental Math" section of the "Mentat Wiki": <http://www.ludism.org/mentat/>

It covers 'tricks' for quickly and accurately calculating squares, cubes, logs and roots (up to fifth root). Worth a look.

</comment><comment><USER13> iirc in fourier transforms, covolution of signals in time-domain is equivalent of signals in frequency-domain. thus 12 * 23 can be thought of as convolution of two signals (1,2) and (2,3) which gives (6,7,2)...

<comment><USER14> Yup. And you can then use the FFT to do super-fast multiplication. (I think you omitted something like "pointwise multiplication" after "equivalent of".) This is called "Strassen multiplication"; you can actually do better by doing your Fourier transforms not with complex numbers but with a different algebraic structure; that's called Schönhage-Strassen multiplication. I've seen it claimed that Strassen is actually faster in practice than Schönhage- Strassen.

Your numbers need to be pretty big before the benefits of this sort of algorithm outweigh the overheads, though. For instance, GMP uses naive multiplication up to about 600 bits, various Karatsuba/Toom-Cook schemes (divide-and-conquer) up to about 120,000 bits, and FFT after that.</comment></comment>


Media Temple introduces ProCDN - <AUTHOR> http://weblog.mediatemple.net/2010/12/28/introducing-procdn-content-delivery-network/ <comment><USER2> You gotta love the marketing folks. The blog post has no substance besides the fact that they've hired Edgecast and branded it as their own CDN (ProCDN).

Regards

Joe</comment>