The fifth hyperfactorial: 5⁵×4⁴×3³×2²×1¹=86400000 milliseconds is exactly 1 day - <AUTHOR> https://twitter.com/fermatslibrary/status/996736533511266304 <comment><USER2> It was useful for sailors to be able to divide the day into shifts, so our day is the most divisible number of hours long.

1 x 2 x 3 x 4

That way you could have half days, quarter days, or third of days.

An hour is divided into 60 minutes: 3 x 4 x 5

The word "second" means a "second division by 3 x 4 x 5"

<comment><USER3> This article (from downthread) suggests that 60 comes from the Sumerians, who had a base-60 number system, and 24 comes from the Egyptians, who had a base-12 number system. Although it agrees that 12 and 60 are conveniently divisible in the way you describe, I'm not finding any evidence to connect this specifically to sailors, or even to people dividing up shifts. Rather it seems likely that the civilization's numeric base was chosen first, and then it was applied to timekeeping.

[https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/experts-time- divi...](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/experts-time-division- days-hours-minutes/)

<comment><USER4> Shipboard life was one of the first large scale applications of precise timekeeping. You need it for navigation and for organising shifts and jobs (though I think navigation is the major player here).

For most people at that time there was no need for even hourly timekeeping, much less minutes or seconds. You woke up in the morning and ate your breakfast, milking the cows took however long it took, then you gathered the eggs from the hens, probably around that time you had lunch, then depending on the season you'd do whatever was needed in the fields until the sun started setting and then you ate supper.

But with navigation you had to know how far to sail in any given direction to not get knocked off your course.

I'm certain that the use of 60 and 12 base systems came from the Sumerians and Egyptians, but their application for timekeeping is probably influenced heavily by sailors.

<comment><USER5> It seems like even without precise knowledge of absolute time, precise knowledge of intervals would be useful; you could evaluate a time-trial to know if you're improving as a footman/chariot rider; you could evaluate the maximum speed of a horse; you could measure height by dropping things off of the sides; etc.

So I would expect that, even if we didn't have hours, we probably had second and minutes fairly early on.

<comment><USER6> You don't need any particular units for that, though. Any periodic oscillator you have at hand would work. (And with an analog clock you don't need to name the subdivisions, just look at the clock). You only need standard units with nice divisions for mass-coordinated scheduling.

<comment><USER5> Or mass-coordinated record-keeping for something like the Olympics. How do you know whether this year's best runner beat last year's best runner?

<comment><USER7> > _Or mass-coordinated record-keeping for something like the Olympics. How do > you know whether this year's best runner beat last year's best runner?_

That sort of timekeeping a modern affectation. In the ancient past, it was sufficient to just be the fastest in whatever was the most recent contest. If you wanted to see if this year's best runner could beat last year's best, then you set up a race between them...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> 24 hr per day, 60 min per hour, 60 s per min, 1000 ms per s

        24   : 2 3 4
        60   :   3 4 5
        60   :   3 4 5
        1000 : 2   4 5
                     5
                     5
               </comment><comment>-
       count:  2 3 4 5

</comment><comment><USER9> Babylonian number system was based on 60 (which is why we have 60 minutes in an hour and 360 degrees). 60 is dope because it has divisors 2,3,4,5,6,10,12,15,20,30 which is a lot of divisors.

Bee tee dubs Babylonians were like way ahead of their time math-wise. They were aware of Fourier for example.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_mathematics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_mathematics)

<comment><USER10> Bonus points for combining "dope" with mathematics.

<comment><USER11> But quickly negated by "bee tee dubs" which is a cryptic mannerism that is actually longer than its original ("by the way" via btw). It's like whiskey tango foxtrot, just without the cool spoken alphabet.

<comment><USER11> In reply to ad-hominem's dead comment: word.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> The fifth hyperfactorial: 5⁵×4⁴×3³×2²×1¹=86400000 milliseconds is exactly _24 hours_. 24 hours is approximately 1 earth day.

<comment><USER13> It would be very suspicious if our day was such an even number of milliseconds. It isn't, but still pretty cool! Things like this are what leap years are for, after all.

Or does that count? Is that caused by a partial day in the revolution of the earth around the sun or a failure of a day to fit into exactly 24 hours? Or both? Are we talking solar or sidereal days?

<comment><USER14> How so? Hours, minutes, seconds, and milliseconds are all man-made units. It's the failure of 24 hours not fitting exactly into a day, not the inverse.

Leap years have nothing to do with milliseconds in a day- it's days that fail to fit into a year; days and years are defined by the orbit and rotation of the earth. Leap seconds, however, are another story...

<comment><USER13> I know they are man-made units, but I don't think the men who made the second could measure the length of a day and split it into 86,400,000 units accurately.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Unfortunately, the definition of one second as 9,192,631,770 energy transitions of the Cesium atom factorizes in a less pretty way:

2 x 3^2 x 5 x 7^2 x 47 x 44351

</comment><comment><USER6> Previous discussion from last time the same OP made a tweet with the same content.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15888591](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15888591)

<comment><USER16> 5 months for an exact repost by the same person getting a similar amount of upvotes/comments. That's a new one for me...

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> It's not a pure coincidence. Coefficients used for time measurements (12, 24, 60) were deliberately chosen to have as many (small) integer divisors as possible.

<comment><USER18> I was going to make a comment to this effect -- I think this is by design.

This is a logical alternative to our metric system. We use powers of ten for increasing units because we operate in base-10. Older civilizations created larger units by multiplying a smaller unit by either an existing member of the set, or the next largest factor. So you end up with a sequence like 2, 6 (3x2), 12 (3x2x2), 60 (5x3x2x2), 360 (6x5x3x2x2), 2520 (7x360), etc.

In effect, this is akin to saying a kilogram is 10^3 grams. It's novel to use because we were not taught to think that way. I bet a Babylonian would find this tweet to be kind of obvious.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Ehhhhh, sort of? But more: "surprisingly close to one day", because if you want to do correct time-keeping, a real day (or rather, a sidereal day, the time in which the earth makes one full rotation wrt "fixed" stars) is currently 86164090.7 milliseconds long.

You could also look at the solar day (the time it takes the earth to rotate such that the sun appears in the same place), in which case a day is actually a little longer than 86400000ms.

<comment><USER20> That's basically because our definition of second is no longer based on the rotation of the earth. If it was it would be exactly that.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> An equally uninteresting coincidence is that 10! seconds is 6 weeks

</comment><comment><USER22> And a related mnemonic: The number of seconds per day, in modern programming language notation, is 864e2 (That's 8-6-4-2 with an 'e' inserted before the last digit).

I generally prefer to have a SECS_PER_DAY constant, or write (24 * 60 * 60) to make the value clear, but when code golfing, and as a mnemonic, I remember that SECS_PER_DAY=86400=864e2

</comment><comment><USER23> Well, a civil day anyway. A solar day is 86400002

<comment><USER24> off by 2

<comment><USER25> 4 hard problems in computer science

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Hence, a very poor approximation to pi is given by 365 × 5⁵ × 4⁴ × 3³ × 2² × 1¹ / 10^10.

<comment><USER27> Why would "the number of milliseconds in a year divided by 10 billion" have anything to do with pi?

<comment><USER28> I feel like I was just nerd sniped, but this drove me crazy until I thought about it for a bit.

If we treat Earth's orbit as a perfect circle, then the number of milliseconds in a year would be its circumference. To get to pi then, we just need to divide that by its diameter or 2*its radius. In addition, we have the circumference in ms so we want to convert that into a distance or the radius into ms so we need the speed the Earth is rotating around the sun.

The average radius of the Earth to the Sun is 149,600,000 km so the diameter is 299,200,000 km. Earth's average orbital speed is 30 km/s or 0.03 km/ms. Combining these two numbers to get ms, (299,200,000 km / 0.03 km/ms) = 9,973,333,333.333 ms, which is very nearly 10 billion.

<comment><USER29> This isn't a reason or an explanation, just a statement of the arithmetic.

The siblings comments to yours are right - it's nearly random chance (give or take conservation of momentum during accretion of the solar disk into planets).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> It is a pretty great coincidence, but there are things that helped improve the chances of this:

Numeric bases are often chosen to have many divisors. The numeric bases 60, 12 and 10 are used in time, which have many 2's, 3's and 5's as divisors.

So if you multiply them all, you get exactly such a product. The only coincidence is how nicely the powers line up.

</comment><comment><USER31> Utter coincidence, and it only works at all if you throw in the milliseconds term, which makes it seem forced.

A lot of our numbering systems are inherited from early mathematics that dealt mainly with ratios of low whole numbers. And so selecting bases with many prime factors made the rational math easier. When your base is 60, it's easier to divide by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20, and 30.

You might as well divide up the mean solar day into 10! = 1 * 2 * 3 * 4 * 5 * 6 * 7 * 8 * 9 * 10 = 2^8 * 3^5 * 5^2 * 7 = 3628800 chunks, which are each 1/42nd of a second. Or maybe make the 7 represent the 7 days in a week, and use 518400 chunks per day, each 1/6th of a second. You could divide up your time by _so many_ whole factors.

</comment><comment><USER32> In related news a (typical) year is 10^2 + 11^2 + 12^2 == 365 days.

Also known as 13^2 + 14^2.

</comment><comment><USER33> This isn't much of a coincidence. We have days, hours, and minutes that are designed to be divided into 3's, 4's and 5's, and then there are lots of factors of 10's in the fifth hyperfactorial, getting us down to milliseconds. It's fun that it happens to work out to the hyperfactorial, but if it didn't, it was always going to be just a couple of additional or fewer 2s, 3s, and 5s away.

</comment><comment><USER34> Speaking of factorials, this post I had written a few years ago may be of interest:

Permutation facts:

[https://jugad2.blogspot.in/2016/10/by-vasudev-ram- nicomachus...](https://jugad2.blogspot.in/2016/10/by-vasudev-ram-nicomachus- theorem-3d.html)

It mentions many kinds of factorials and other interesting types of numbers too.

</comment><comment><USER35> 10! is the number of seconds in 7 weeks

[https://duckduckgo.com/?q=10!+-+(60*60*24*7*6)&t=canonical&i...](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=10!+-+\(60*60*24*7*6\)&t=canonical&ia=calculator)

<comment><USER36> 6 weeks? Unless I'm radically misunderstanding that multiplication.

<comment><USER35> Yes, 6 weeks. Not sure why I typed 7.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> Despite being well aware that 60 was chosen to be evenly divisible by small numbers, I find it a really cool coincidence that the exponents fell into place so perfectly.

</comment><comment><USER38> Factoid:

The reason the number 108 recurs in Hinduism and Buddhism is that as the third hyperfactorial it was esoteric knowledge discoverable by sacred geometers.

(3³×2²×1¹ = 27×4×1 = 108)

<comment><USER20> Lol. Its just because its a highly divisible number. Saying basic multiplication is "esoteric" shows how little you expect of ancient civilisations. They estimate the circumference of the fuckin earth and you say its "esoteric" to think 108 is holy.

<comment><USER39> I would say that considering a number as "holy" is esotric by definition.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> And perhaps in our lifetime the next hyper factorial (6^6 * 5^5 * 4^4 * 3^3 * 2^2 * 1^1) will be a lifetime (127.8 years (approximately)

</comment><comment><USER41> So is 5^5 * 4^4 * 3^3 * 2^2 * 1^1 * 0^0

<comment><USER39> There is no consensus for what 0^0 means.

<comment><USER42> That's why they are called emoticons, just conveying emotions ;-)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> 10 factorial seconds is 42 days.

</comment><comment><USER44> And 10! seconds is exactly 6 weeks.

</comment><comment><USER45> It would be impressive if days and seconds weren't defined arbitrarily.

</comment><comment><USER46> You can divide a day in any arbitrary manner. This is just a coincidence.

</comment><comment><USER47> yeah but as other comments explain, this isn't some numeric "property" as such, giving insight into anything. It is by definition.

Furthermore, a day is not even a day. We need leap seconds to sync up the solar day.

</comment><comment><USER48> A "real" day is 86164100 milliseconds (23h 56m 4.100s)

<comment><USER49> And what makes stellar day real, and mean solar day not real? Having day defined in terms of the star Earth is orbiting around has a benefit of having more or less consistent time for noon. Having a day defined in terms of the mean sun instead of the real one has a benefit of having noons at exactly 24h apart instead of variable inter between noons of the real sun (see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equation_of_time](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equation_of_time)).

<comment><USER42> _... what makes stellar day real, ... ?_

It's not really real, just side-real.

<comment><USER50> Oh man this was the pun of the week. Well done.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> almost like the person who thought up time keeping, thought about how it would be most useful.

</comment><comment><USER52> signs of The Architect

<comment><USER53> The Architect was off in terms of the ACTUAL time it takes for the earth to rotate - 86,164,100 milliseconds. What a "stellar" mistake for numerical perfection. Did The Architect screw up the math?

<comment><USER20> Our "original" definition of seconds was in term of our earth's rotation so it is exactly OPs number. We just changed our definition to a more constant second that slightly varies from our old definition.

<comment><USER53> But "milli" implies the metric system's version of a second, which is defined as per the decay of a caesium-133 atom. I doubt very much The Architect wanted us to mix our units of measure, unless The Architect was referring to that window of time where "milli" existed, but we hadn't yet changed the second to a uniform length of time (as opposed to one that would be affected by the variable rotation of the earth). If so, we are already past His golden age.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER54> > exactly

Which day, specifically?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_length_fluctuations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_length_fluctuations)</comment>


124 Swipe to Add Me – A Free Game to Challenge Your Mind and Reaction - <AUTHOR> http://prmac.com/release-id-67909.htm

<comment><AUTHOR> addicting game! I like it!</comment>


Run Windows 2000 in your browser - <AUTHOR> https://bellard.org/jslinux/vm.html?url=https://bellard.org/jslinux/win2k.cfg&mem=192&graphic=1&w=1024&h=768 <comment><USER3> Windows 2000 was a great OS, I preferred it over XP for as long as it was feasible. Back when Windows XP was released, activation was considered quite intrusive in privacy sense and Windows 2000 was the last release without it. Oh have times changed.

<comment><USER4> Actually XP was a slight modification over 2000, specially graphically. Hence the version naming 5.0 and 5.1.

<comment><USER5> I remember Microsoft held back updates to Windows 2000 to force people to upgrade.

I remember USB and wifi support in particular being painful. When I finally had to cave in, I was not happy.

How times have changed indeed :)

<comment><USER4> Still Windows 2000 was more oriented to servers (which btw was the main business for the NT line until XP). You could easily mistake an XP for 2000 if you removed the skinning.

<comment><USER6> I removed all the graphical changes for performance reasons on older boxes. People thought it was Windows 2000 as you said.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> FYI: internet actually works in it. If you start IE in it, you get the network connection wizard, choose lan and let it auto configure, and it works. IE will go to a default msn.com page that it will be unable to actually render, but google.com works. But wikipedia over https not for some reason

<comment><USER8> That's because MSIE uses an operating system component for SSL/TLS, and the version of that component on Windows 2000 has only insecure or weak ciphers, and none of them is accepted by Wikipedia's servers. According to qualys ([https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/viewClient.html?name=IE&vers...](https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/viewClient.html?name=IE&version=6&platform=XP&key=18)), even on Windows XP it knows only insecure ciphers (small key size or the broken RC4 cipher) and weak ciphers (3DES has a small block size, which is now considered insecure).

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Also note there's plenty of other interesting stuff on the site, too:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=bellard.org](https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=bellard.org)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabrice_Bellard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabrice_Bellard)

<comment><USER10> Looks like he's working with business coaching/consulting ... I found this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu241uoLJSQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu241uoLJSQ) The audio quality is bad, but there's some nice stuff in there like what successful businesses does right and vice versa.

<comment><USER11> I somehow do not believe this is _the_ Fabrice Bellard.

<comment><USER12> The title and description say "Fabrice Beillard", so, no.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> This is amazing. Even the web browser works. I wonder how that works since cross-domain AJAX calls are usually not possible.

<comment><USER14> From the FAQ: [https://bellard.org/jslinux/faq.html](https://bellard.org/jslinux/faq.html)

> Can I access to the network from the virtual machine ?

> Yes it is possible. It uses the websocket VPN offered by Benjamin Burns (see > his blog[1]). The bandwidth is capped to 40 kB/s and at most two connections > are allowed per public IP address. Please don't abuse the service.

[1] [http://www.benjamincburns.com/2013/11/10/jor1k-ethmac- suppor...](http://www.benjamincburns.com/2013/11/10/jor1k-ethmac-support.html)

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> There's a few in browsers OSes on [http://copy.sh/v86/](http://copy.sh/v86/) too, it seems to be an independent effort.

<comment><USER16> The one linked here is based on JSLinux [1]. All done by Fabrice Bellard of QEMU fame. If you look at the list, this is the first Microsoft Windows version running in JSLinux. Heck, its the first time a proprietary OS runs in JSLinux. Before, it was only Linux and FreeDOS.

What you linked is also based on QEMU btw.

[1] [https://bellard.org/jslinux/index.html](https://bellard.org/jslinux/index.html)

<comment><USER15> This is why I said it's (seemingly) an independent effort. I've seen JSLinux before and heard of Fabrice Bellard before due to QEMU, TCC and FFmpeg. The one in my comment is done by another person named Fabian Hemmer. I'm not sure what your point here is while I just linked a similar project.

Where did you take the information that what I linked is "based on" QEMU? Its readme only mentions using QEMU's (and KVM's) tests/test cases and sounds like an original work with regards to the emulator itself: [https://github.com/copy/v86/blob/master/Readme.md](https://github.com/copy/v86/blob/master/Readme.md)

<comment><USER16> You're right, it seems not to be based on QEMU code (which is programmed in C) but a full-blown JavaScript implementation of x86-32.

<comment><USER15> Thanks for clearing that up.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Would this possibly run Windows ME? Well, as much ME ever ran at least.

<comment><USER18> To be fair, ME was an abberation. Win2000, WinXP SP2/3 and Win7 were good releases.

<comment><USER4> ME was the last installment of the 9x kernel series (not a surprise the 9x line died...), while 2000 and follow ups were NT kernel.

<comment><USER19> ME was some kind of weird hybrid as best i recall. No that i dealt with it much beyond trying to rescue some failing installs.The main thing i recall was that it booted all the way to the UI layer before getting scandisk going...

<comment><USER20> ME had the new (from NT) WDM driver model, which caused quite a bit of issues when mixed with older drivers. It was an end-of-the-road hybrid.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> How does this work with the licensing? It runs in your browser, so you need a valid license and not the host?

<comment><USER21> Can you even get a license for Win2000 anymore... ? I expect no license from that era would consider a scenario like this anyway.

<comment><USER9> It's a bit of a clusterfuck [1] but you can buy a license to a newer version of Windows and exercise downgrade rights if you've got your old Windows 2000 media and product keys around, or something:

> It is also important to understand that although Microsoft grants downgrade > rights we do not necessarily provide the means (media and product keys) to > downgrade. So what does this mean? In order to downgrade software you will > need the bits of the earlier version or edition and a product key. Microsoft > only supplies bits and product keys to Volume License customers and only for > certain versions and editions of the software. Volume Licensing customers > have access to the Volume Licensing Service Center (VLSC) where they will > have access to the current version and the prior version of the software > they have licensed. We refer to the current version of software as version > "n" and the prior version of the software as n-1. There are also certain > core Microsoft products that we provide n-2 and occasionally n-3 versions of > the software via the VLSC. Software titles where n-2 and n-3 versions are > available can be viewed here. If you have legally obtained physical media > for earlier Microsoft products that your organization is currently licensed > to use through downgrade rights, you may use that media for downgrades.

And in fact, despite it being Windows _Server_ 2000 you can exercise downgrade rights from Windows 10 Pro [2]. All the way back to Windows NT 3.51!

[1] [https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/licensing/2013/02/06/dow...](https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/licensing/2013/02/06/downgrade- rights-explained/)

[2] [https://download.microsoft.com/download/6/8/9/68964284-864d-...](https://download.microsoft.com/download/6/8/9/68964284-864d-4a6d-aed9-f2c1f8f23e14/downgrade_rights.pdf)

<comment><USER8> Isn't Windows 2000 the only one where Microsoft doesn't distribute the media anywhere, because of Java?

<comment><USER22> Right. When I last checked, you can get as low as Windows 3.1 from MSDN.. but not 2000.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Anyone know how this works?

<comment><USER24> It's a full blown x86 emulator written in javascript.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> ntoskernal missing...

<comment><USER26> Maybe your ad blocker is breaking things?

The server also appears to be under very heavy load right now.

<comment><USER27> "I can boot the OS because an ad-blocker prevented download of the kernel."

I guess we really do live in the future.

Insert joke about EA going into the OS business and asking for money to download USB 3.1 drivers here.

Then again, we already had [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Upgrade_Service](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Upgrade_Service)

<comment> 52-6F-62 Hey that's not fair. They would also give you the option of unlocking it yourself by gaining enough points by accomplishing arbitrary challenges. You only have to pay if you don't want to play along, silly.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> how about Netscape 3.01 in a browser?

</comment><comment><USER29> Every time I doubt the myth of the 10x programmer I go look at Fabrice Bellard's site.

Just look at his 2001 winning International Obfuscated C Code Contest self- hosting C compiler: [http://www0.us.ioccc.org/2001/bellard.hint](http://www0.us.ioccc.org/2001/bellard.hint)

He won the year before too, with a program which found the largest known prime number.

In 2009 he wrote a program which he used to calculated Pi to the most digits ever (at that point), on a desktop PC. He broke the previous record _which was set on a 640 nodes supercomputer_.

(Oh yes, original author of QEMU and FFMPEG too)

<comment><USER30> I've always been under the impression that the dismissal of the "myth of the 10x programmer" was more about its use as a general hiring filter rather than whether there exist prolific programmers (examples of whom seem readily available).

<comment><USER31> Perhaps we should split up the myths:

1) myth of the 10x programmer - <USER2>

2) "we hire 10x programmers" \- look at salaries - false (even for companies like Google and Facebook, who hire -at best- 1.5x programmers)

<comment><USER32> Price's Law suggests that the square root of the number of workers in a particular domain constitute half the productivity. This means if a particular office has 100 coders, 10 of them make up half the total productivity. So the top performers are doing ~5% of the total work each, while the regular performers, on average, are doing 0.5%. So statistically every place with 100 developers has ten 10x coders whether that's Google or anywhere else.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> I wonder if there's ever gonna be a day when we'll see Vista running in the browser.</comment>


Making Sense of Dell and EMC and VMware - <AUTHOR> http://a16z.com/2015/10/26/dell-emc-vmware/ <comment><USER2> This a solid analysis and will be a very interesting piece to refer back to in five years. It sketches out the extreme machinations these huge companies need to go through to get their deals structures, and I for one am very curious about the end-game that Dell has in mind.

A couple points stuck out to me; one the comment that Dell's capital cost will be lower in part because they aggressively paid down the debt from going private a few years ago. That has to be one of the most valuable reputations in the world -- probably saved over a billion dollars on this deal, just from having good credit. Yow!

The other that's interesting perspective is noting that EMC alone could pay the debt burden here with what it's been spending on share buybacks.

It's also interesting that we have massive moves from industry participants going both directions right now: HP splitting, and EMC/Dell merging, both looking to unlock extra value.

Something in me tends to not trust the 'break em up' push from activists; I guess I tend to believe synergies are real things. At some level, maybe activists don't disagree, but think they encourage bad or lazy behavior, and break-ups force harder thinking and focus from management teams that are fat and happy.

If that's true, my bet would be on Dell turning this into something good; Michael seems very motivated to me from watching his moves over the last few years.

<comment><USER3> _Dell 's capital cost will be lower in part because they aggressively paid down the debt from going private a few years ago. That has to be one of the most valuable reputations in the world -- probably saved over a billion dollars on this deal, just from having good credit. Yow!_

Yes, its incredible how hard-won that trust is, and how much the market will reward you for it. Basically, investors are saying that they consider Dell to be a safe bet and are willing to charge less for it so that Dell may succeed and give them a great ROI for years to come

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> As someone not terribly well-versed in the jargon of the finance and stock market worlds, this was a pretty good article for helping me make sense of it all. My head is spinning a little, but I've got the gist of it. Kudos to a16z for the good writeup.

I do have one question: can someone clarify for me what "tracking stock" is? I see that it has no voting rights and pays no dividends, but I don't understand how the market sets a price in that case. What is stock if not voting rights and dividends?

<comment><USER5> Essentially tracking stock is a claim on the results of the income statement (revenues & expenses) for VMWare, whereas normal common stock is a claim on the income statement as well as the balance sheet (assets & liabilities).

Another way to think about it is that ETFs are tracking stocks. You do not have claim on the underlying stocks that the EFT holds, you only have claim to the return that holding those stocks would produce.

<comment><USER6> Is that similar to the Google stocks with class A and C?

<comment><USER7> No, voting rights are the difference between the Google (now Alphabet) share classes.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Wow; an excellent piece from a16z! Not only is it the best piece of analysis I've seen on the merger, it's arguably the best piece of (free) analysis I've seen on _any_ merger before it actually closes. One question: Oracle has long been rumored to be interested in EMC, and they have a history with the Sun acquisition of surprising other potential acquirers. Especially with the "go- shop" clause, it seems likely that EMC is being explicitly shopped to Oracle; I wonder if the authors of the a16z piece see an Oracle acquisition of EMC/VMware as a possibility. It seems that Oracle has the cash on hand to make a better offer -- and that a combined Oracle/EMC makes more sense from a product mix than Dell/EMC. (Indeed, I wonder if a combined Oracle/EMC wouldn't be such a menace that there would be regulatory questions.) Are there other potential acquirers here that could derail Dell/EMC?

<comment><USER9> What, you get _two_ large, amoral, incompetent, slow-moving and anti- competitive firms to merge? They'd destroy each other - can you imagine Joe Tucci and Larry Ellison trying to duke it out for supremacy?

Actually, on second thoughts that would destroy both EMC and Oracle. I say let it happen.

<comment><USER8> Well, EMC management is retiring no matter what happens -- so I don't think it would be much of a battle. I also don't think that there is much of a contest between EMC and Oracle in terms of bad behavior: while they might have been similar five years ago, Oracle has distinguished itself with its astonishingly bad behavior in the wake of the Sun acquisition (e.g. Hudson, MySQL, Java, OpenSolaris, OpenOffice, and especially Oracle v. Google) -- and this is to say nothing of their extortion with respect to cloud revenue and license auditing.[1] The big loser here (and indeed, in all of these scenarios) is the EMC customer held hostage by ancient architectures -- and I'm sure that regardless of the outcome, plenty of EMC customers will be accelerating their plans of moving towards open infrastructure...

[1] [http://www.businessinsider.com/oracle-customer-explains- audi...](http://www.businessinsider.com/oracle-customer-explains-audit- threats-2015-9)

<comment><USER9> OK, fair point - that sounds more likely.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I happened to be writing a research paper on EMC before the deal was announced and am still writing it. This article nails my thoughts on the deal in such a way that I'm kind of disappointed - here I was thinking I was going to be saying something unique about the under-rated role of activist investors, and the iffy bet on grow-or-die. Still, I'm totally stealing some of those graphics for my paper.

</comment><comment><USER11> Wow, that was by far the most comprehensive and best article I've read on this subject.

Rivals anything I've seen in the wsj or other papers about the deal. I haven't seen a longform article like this on a16z before, very neat.

</comment><comment><USER12> Awesome analysis! Quite difficult to distill something so complex into a clear and cogent analysis. Someone's MBA education certainly paid off. :)

Oracle would certainly be one of the interested parties for the go-shop. Oracle has been shaking down clients because of ambiguity around how to use virtualization ([http://fortune.com/2015/09/14/oracle-plays- hardball/](http://fortune.com/2015/09/14/oracle-plays-hardball/)) so acquiring VMWare would help strengthen their hand - they could rewrite VMWare license agreements to remove any remaining ambiguity ;)

And kudos to Tucci for buying up VMWare at the right time. This deal is mostly about VMWare and Tucci spotted it at the right time.

</comment><comment><USER13> This piece is awesomely detailed, but if you're looking for a higher-level recap, we wrote up the a16z podcast on the same topic: [http://www.volleythat.com/a16z-podcast/2015/10/18/a16z-podca...](http://www.volleythat.com/a16z-podcast/2015/10/18/a16z-podcast- dell-emc-why-the-python-just-ate-the-cow)

</comment><comment><USER14> The information us excellent for a someone like .e who knows nothing about M&A. However the consipra t theory undertones were perhaps a little too cute; they insinuate that dell colluded with emc to structure the original VMware deal so it would enable a future mega-merger. It does make for good reading...

<comment><USER15> 9341%&$& (mumble)nly the paranoid surv(mumble) ... &%#" (glurb) )/=(/"# [NO CARRIER]

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Great write-up! Even as someone on the inside of one of those companies I learned a lot.</comment>


Ask HN: Best Go Integration with an Editor? - <AUTHOR> I've been using VS Code, but finally realised today that I'm fighting the editor to get it to autocomplete properly, and it's too feature-rich to be usable now. What's everyone using that has good Go integration? <comment><USER2> I use GoLand. I've been writing Go for the better part of a decade now. I started in Sublime Text. Things were good. Then came VS Code. The experience was so good that I dropped Sublime in a heartbeat. Eventually, modules were introduced and language servers seemed to kinda sometimes work. VS Code would routinely not autocomplete or allow jump to definition. I begrudgingly tried GoLand. I didn't like it at first since I was so proficient in VS Code. I would dance between the two editors, only going to GoLand when VS Code's Go module would fail. I gave up fighting VS Code's Go experience and fully switched to GoLand. I should have done it sooner.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. I've had the same bad first reaction to GoLand. I might give it another try and see if I can get over it. Especially since everyone seems to love it so much!

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> For a big project GoLand is the way to go. For small or quick edits I like to use vim with the vim-go plugin[1].

[1][https://github.com/fatih/vim-go](https://github.com/fatih/vim-go)

<comment><AUTHOR> man I love Vim, and it's my go-to for devops. But I can't use it as a regular editor. The number of web forms I've got 2/3 of the way through and then hit "escape" from muscle memory :( web forms don't like it when people hit "escape" halfway through :(

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> GoLand and that's it. Simply the best and the only tool.

</comment><comment><USER5> Another voice for GoLand...

</comment><comment><USER6> #4 vouching for GoLand.

</comment><comment><USER7> GoLand.</comment>


Make Your Own Miniature Linux Laptop for Less Than $100 - <AUTHOR> http://lifehacker.com/make-your-own-miniature-linux-laptop-for-less-than-100-1788535462 <comment><USER2> Actual details: [http://n-o-d-e.net/post/152643238256/how-to-create-the- diy-1...](http://n-o-d-e.net/post/152643238256/how-to-create-the-diy-100-mini- ubuntu-laptop)

I'd be interested in knowing if the resulting Ubuntu installation could be upgraded to something more modern. The instructions seem to rely on a rather old non-LTS version.</comment>


Who is Anna-Senpai, the Mirai Worm Author? - <AUTHOR> https://krebsonsecurity.com/2017/01/who-is-anna-senpai-the-mirai-worm-author <comment><USER2> Previous discussion : [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13428824](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13428824)

Mods, the current url points to somewhere in the middle (contains a #). Consider editing the url to point to [https://krebsonsecurity.com/2017/01/who- is-anna-senpai-the-m...](https://krebsonsecurity.com/2017/01/who-is-anna- senpai-the-mirai-worm-author/)

The article makes for a fascinating read (could form the basis of a Social Network style movie), and also brings up the topic of IoT security. IoT devices in usage are only going to increase in number, so if the manufacturers don't get their act together, multi TBps DDoS capable botnets operated by teenagers will become the new normal.

Links worth mentioning:

AnnaSenpai 5 days ago on reddit (story adds up) : [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/5nqq3c/serious_p...](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/5nqq3c/serious_people_whove_written_malicious_code/dce7rh9/)

Chat between AnnaSenpai and a victim: [https://krebsonsecurity.com/wp- content/uploads/2017/01/annas...](https://krebsonsecurity.com/wp- content/uploads/2017/01/annasenpaichat.txt)

<comment><USER3> I often feel that crimes "committed by teenagers" are a distraction from the real criminals.

Let's look at drugs, for instance: a lot of teenagers are used as street dealers and runners, because they're new to an organization, easily replaceable, and shield key people from liability.

As a youngster online, I found a lot of tools that contained backdoors or takeover methods, and my suspicion always was that older, professional hackers were dangling toys out there so we'd do a lot of their dirty work setting up botnets and providing cover noise so they could hide behind our actions in a similar manner.

<comment><USER4> It's an old trick. In the cybercriminal world there's a service called 'crypting'. It's used to delay or remove detection of malware samples by anti- virus products. It's easy to build one with the right technical skills.

It's one of four things that you need for a succesfull campaign really:

        A viable piece of malware (nowadays probably ransomware, in the past it was banking malware)
        Infrastructure (servers for updates and command and control)
        A speading method (spamruns, phishing, exploits etc.)
        A way for retaining infections (keeping your malware of the radar, updating the binary)

The problem for many newbies in the cybercrime world is that the good crypters (any crypter at all really) cost money. A newbie can't program anything themselves, and don't want to spend money. So they go for one of the 'free' crypters. Obviously the malware obfuscated with one of the free crypters will contain a little 'extra'.

This is a beneficial scheme for all the parties involved, the inexperienced newbies have access to tools to obfuscate their third-rate malware, the more experienced members benefit from some extra spreading of their own malware for free and with minimal ties to themselves.

Perhaps this will become less viable for criminals in the future because ransomware does not play well with any other infection on the system. As opposed to adding some banking malware to a newbies RAT.

All the other free tools are probably full of 'extras' too, with the rare exception of a free tool released purely for reputation gains and vouches.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Because the article doesn't mention it all, and because it's interesting to ponder what fictional dystopian futures are sufficiently of interest to virus authors and the like that they use names from those works:

"In a dystopian future, the Japanese government is cracking down on any perceived immoral activity from using risqué language to distributing lewd materials in the country, to the point where all citizens are forced to wear high-tech devices called Peace Makers (PM) at all times that analyse every spoken word and hand motions for any action that could break the law. A new high school student named Tanukichi Okuma enters the country's leading elite "public morals school" to reunite with his crush and student council President, _Anna Nishikinomiya_.

... After being accidentally kissed by Tanukichi, she develops an obsessive love for him but due to lack of knowledge on "immoral" subjects she ends up expressing her love in extreme tendencies. These include pursuing him relentlessly and attempting to rape him, endangering Kosuri and Ayame when she sees them with Tanukichi, and becoming far more harsh and strict on her surveillance, believing that by doing "justice" and "good things" she will be loved by him."

– [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimoneta](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimoneta)

And that's Anna-senpai, the fictional character.

<comment><USER6> Shimoneta and B-Gata H-Kei are just teen sex comedies. RIP Miyu Matsuki.

"Gate" (not the same thing) is an extreme Japanese right-wing military fetish[1] about how rebuilding your self-defense force into an army and invading fantasy kingdoms would be really cool.

[1] "extreme Japanese right-wing" = "American centrist" as far as guns go

<comment><USER7> I don't know how extreme right-wing Gate is. only in the sense that it portrays JDF sympathetically, and possibly raises a constitutional issue about just how "expeditionary" the JDF is allowed to be. In the Gate storyline it emphasizes really heavily how the heroic virtue of individuals creates positive outcomes. It's an overly simplistic and romantic view of human nature and political realities, but it's really just intended to be some shonen fun.

When I think of extreme Japanese right-wing I think more like Yukio Mishima

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yukio_Mishima](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yukio_Mishima)

ultra-nationalist and imperial restorationist who led a failed coup attempt.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Based on this article, are a majority of DDOS-prevention firms really just hacker outfits who are launching attacks on rival firms?

<comment><USER9> Hasn't it always generally been kinda known or suggested that a lot of black hat hackers actually have information security jobs somewhere? If you have a talent that is well-paid for, it's pretty likely you're going to want a real job where people pay you to do it.

<comment><USER8> I didn't realize that there were DDOS protection "firms" that had less than ten people, operating as security companies. I had assumed that most companies would simply hire Cloudflare or FireEye. Much easier to act as a gang when your firm only has a few people who are all in on it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Let alone the US the security services of nearly any state can take care of this. But no, they want to access and use these services and have plausible deniability and so let them exist and extort others.

I don't think anyone imagines the NSA, the russian or chinese security services do not have the ability to put a stop to this, at least those parts that are in their control.

<comment><USER11> "...at least those parts that are in their control." And there's the rub! In the article, the author notes that Ukrainian command-and-control is used in the attacks on these western services... and if they were attacking Ukrainian services, they wouldn't locate their command-and-control there.

You've identified an obvious solution and presumed that no-one is pursuing it, in dereliction of the facts.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> If i were anna-senpai, i would put my own anti-ddos servers down to avoid suspicion. hence here is a question:

have any of ProtTraf servers been hit by Mirai botnet?</comment>


Ask HN: Am I committing career suicide? - <AUTHOR> I've been working in IT as a software engineer for almost 12 years now. Half of that in Europe with J2EE, the latter half in the Bay Area as a web developer in .NET.
I'm starting to become more and more bored with work. I started to look around for other opportunities, but I feel it's hard to do that while working full time. Also, my problem does not seem to be with that particular job, it's with the whole corporate world. Being forced to sit at a desk the whole day. I'm still motivated to work on my own projects after work and on the weekends. I still like programming. I just don't like coding stuff for other people.
Long story short, I'm preparing to take a time out. Maybe one year, maybe two, maybe only six months. My savings could probably sustain my current lifestyle for 5-10 years, if not more. My plan would be to crank out mobile apps, maybe one every two months, see if any of them can make some money. If it doesn't work, I could use them as a reference to get a mobile dev job, hopefully at a company with a product I can be passionate about.
Am I crazy to give up a six figure salary just because I don't feel like being employed anymore? I'm in my mid-late thirties, will I even find a new job with a gap in my resume like this? Any first hand experiences? I'm single, no kids. <comment><USER2> After a decade at the same employer, I was completely burned out -- I had worked 60+ hour weeks for many years, with nothing resembling a "real" vacation since ~2004. I didn't enjoy the bulk of the work. I wasn't learning anything applicable outside of my employer's niche. I was being given projects that I was completely unqualified to work on (but I was the least unqualified person, so they fell to me).

After one particularly brutal day that didn't see me home until well after midnight, I did some serious soul-searching. I gave my (pretty generous) notice the next day.

I did the math and figured out my vacation payout + vacation time I had lost over the years due to the yearly cutoff was about three months, so I planned to take a three month vacation. Sleep all day, learn a programming language, drive to interesting places, read books, play video games, whatever sounded interesting that particular day. Recharge the ol' batteries. And that's exactly what I did.

After my three months of R&R were up, it was time to start looking for a job. I applied for interesting-sounding jobs that I thought I was qualified for. Silence. I contacted some friends and asked about opportunities, then sent CVs to the few that said, "Yes, we have positions you should apply for!" More silence. I continue(d) to apply for interesting jobs, resisting the urge to just scattershot resumes at everything I'm qualified for. (I think that's tacky, and I'm not that desperate yet. Plus, I don't want another job I'll hate and/or burn out on.)

My three months turned into six months...and then nine months...and now stands at 11 months. I haven't been able to get a single interview -- phone, e-mail, in-person, or otherwise. My savings and expenses are such that I'm okay for another two years or so, but I will need an income of some sort eventually.

Maybe my skill set is crap. Maybe my CV is crap. Maybe it's my employment history gap. Maybe it's karmic retribution. I can't be certain, but my money's on the gap.

tl;dr: Your mileage may vary, but I'm pretty sure I Darwin'd my career by taking time off without doing anything that I could put on a CV to explain the gap in my employment history.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for sharing your story. I remember reading something similar a few weeks ago here on HN.

It may be the combination of 10+ years at one company, plus a gap. It could be something else. Have you asked those friends for an update what happened after you sent your CV?

In my (limited) experience, even though people say there's a shortage of qualified software engineers and it's a great market for them now, it's always hard to find a good job. Key word being "good". Unless you're a "rock star" that has written a book and is being hired to speak at tech conferences. Companies are still being picky, even if they can't afford to be.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Do it. Your savings exist precisely for that sort of situation.

Take time off, and figure out what you want to do. Maybe it'll be freelancing/indie development. Maybe in 6 months you'll want to come back to the tech world. Or maybe you'll just say "fuck it" and go teach high school mathematics or help out with IT infrastructure in third world countries or whatever.

The point is: you only live once, do it.

<comment><USER4> Perhaps good advice for HORRID reasons. Anyone spouting "YOLO" or any such thing should be ignored out of hand.

<comment><USER5> "You only live once" used to be perfectly fine before a bunch of kids gave it bad connotations.

Once upon a time it used to be a way of saying that you only have finite amount of time on earth and you should make the best of it. Somewhat similar to "Carpe Diem" and "Momento Mori".

The fact that a bunch of kids that use it as reasoning to smoke alot of dope and do stupid shit doesn't change the original meaning in the eyes of many folk.

<comment><USER6> The Lonely Island did a parody song/video about YOLO where they made it about living well, but they took it over the top. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5Otla5157c> The YOLO phenomenon isn't limited to getting crazy, but it sure seems to be the most common use of it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> 5+ years bankrolled on savings from working full time? Well done. I mean damn, well done.

You are not crazy to give it up. I can't speak from experience; I am in my early 30's and gave up a lower rate about six years ago to good result, but that's just anecdotal. It seems to me you have a very strong position: You have serious industry experience and, from your description, very strong financial responsibility. It's almost irritating that this should be impressive, but it is: You are a whale among greedy remoras. ;)

It is certainly obvious to you that this is a risk. Being single and without dependents does help, but that also brings to mind the question of priorities. You're in a position, now, where you earn enough to wrap up your retirement reasonably early, if this pace keeps up. If that is what you want, then you might consider that starting a family -- if that's a priority for you -- could actually make your current income sources very, very valuable in a meaningful sense.

If your primary goal is work satisfaction... then yes, I would say this is an excellent opportunity to step out of your current environment (calling it a rut or anything else would paint a biased picture, I think) and potentially do something more rewarding, in terms of personal fulfillment. I would _not_ go into such a venture with the expectation of more lucrative results, though. You seem to be in a good position. There are certainly many startups that succeed, and that won't change. But the reality will always be that more fail.

Be careful. You are in a good position, and you seem to know it. My suggestion would be to try and decide what it is you would be happiest doing, or at least deciding on things you want to accomplish. If you can manage that, then you will at least have something interesting to work towards. If not, then you may need more time before you can do something new and expect it to end well or at least satisfy you.

<comment><AUTHOR> You summed up my inner dialog perfectly.

I used the retirement calculator my brokerage firm has on their website. According to their Monte Carlo simulation, I have about 10 years to financial independence (90% chance that my money doesn't run out before I die), income, savings rate and expenses remaining at the same level. That happens to be around $1 million in savings in today's dollars. It's tempting on the one hand, but on the other hand: 10 damn years!! I don't know if I can do it.

It's weird, I'm hoping that the decision is somehow made for me. My company being acquired or forced to downsize, offering severance packages... But alas, it doesn't seem to be in the cards.

<comment><USER4> Ha! Yes, ten years feels like a very, very long time just lately. ;)

There's nothing wrong with coasting when you know you're moving in a good direction, which it seems clear you are. In your situation, you have the chance to sit back, observe, and carefully consider the environment (in addition to consulting whatever oracles you consider the most wise) and then decide when or whether you should strike out with any given idea.

Unless you're throwing yourself on the mercy of an incubator on the strength of your resume, which in my opinion is a laughable gamble for kids who don't know better, you will want to think long and hard on what you want to do and how you want to do it. Once you can answer those questions for yourself (as you are the only one to whom you answer, and you'll never find a more forgiving situation), you'll have your direction.

Once you take it... well, that's another story. ;)

<comment><AUTHOR> My lease is running out in November, so that's the time frame I've given myself to see if it gets any better. The good thing is that time doesn't run against me. Okay, maybe opportunities for indie devs in the mobile market may be shrinking, and it might be harder to find a job in your forties than in your thirties, but I can wait a few months and carefully consider all the options.

<comment><USER4> Points well taken. Yes, indie opportunity is not what it was, but it's most certainly still there.

I can't speak to ageism in the market, though we all know it exists... hopefully your skills speak for you. My best weapon in the last decade has been the interview; if you enjoy and excel at that, plan on getting most of what you want. :)

I don't know what your qualifications are, but if you are interested in freelance web/Android work, please drop me a line. Info is in my profile. I have nothing waiting at the moment, but I do get a fair amount of leads.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> > My savings could probably sustain my current lifestyle for 5-10 years, if > not more.

You're successful,

> I'm single, no kids.

and you don't have obligations.

Considering these, I'd quite safely say this is a game you are not likely to lose. While it's a decision you need to make by yourself, your worst case scenario is better than lives of most people in the field. Plus, taking a year or two to work on startups as far as I can see is quite normal and even seen in a positive light in many places.

</comment><comment><USER8> I may be echoing others, but I to say to go for it.

As for the "gap", this is simple. Start a business. If you're going to be making and selling mobile apps, you'll want a basic corporate entity behind you anyways. Now, instead of being "unemployed guy building apps" you're "Founder of Mobile App Development Consultancy" or something along those lines.

Given what you stated about not liking the corporate world, that's completely understandable. I certainly prefer smaller companies, even startup, bootstrapping level ones. J2EE and .NET aren't strongly used outside of the big enterprise-y corporate world. Given your experience with Java, I'd say you might find Clojure to be a great move and still be able to leverage your Java past.

Go for it! Get yourself an LLC or similar and build some apps. If you have 5+ years of financial runway, you should certainly be able to find something self-sustaining in that time. :)

Jump and don't look back!

<comment><AUTHOR> That's exactly what I'm already working on. I have a domain name secured, an app in the Android app store, and if I do make the jump, I'll change my LinkedIn to "Founder, <company name> LLC" or something like that.

I could use my C# skills to port the app to WP7/8, and I might even buy my first Apple computer and learn Objective C. Exciting prospects!

<comment><USER9> No advice as to whether you should do it, but if you do, stuff like this will be useful to cast your adventure as "legit" if you want to return to the standard world later. I'd definitely work on leaving a trail/portfolio of your work as you go.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Do it, and come to Malaysia.

Savings that lasts 5-10 years in the states would lasts you at least 20-30 years here. Most people here speaks English fluently, and the startups/hackers culture here are vibrant and growing.

My good friend quit his cozy programming job in Canada and spent a year travelling and hacking in Malaysia + Singapore. He left with more money than when he started (took very very few consulting jobs in between). Oh, and tons of great (food) memories: <http://malaysianfoodporn.com/>

<comment><USER11> I have to agree with Cheng.

Malaysia is probably your best bet for somewhere in between if you are looking for a balance between the developed world and stretching your savings. KL is a pretty laid back place to be with awesome food! And with AirAsia being based in Malaysia, you could pretty much travel anywhere in Asia for cheaps. And if you ever decide you are running out of money or are bored, there are a multitude of companies/startups you can start consulting for!

Btw, bearwithclaws, how did your friend end up with more money than when he started? I'm curious.

<comment><USER12> I occasionally did some consulting jobs. Put it this way, some people make about $500 a month in Malaysia (which is more than enough to survive comfortably on). When you charge $100+ an hour you can make more in a day than the locals make in a month.

<comment><USER13> Having been in Malaysia on and off for the last few years: you _can_ survive with $500 a month. But you don't wanna put a guy in his late 30s in the kind of accommodation you'd have to put up with for that budget.

Let me put it this way. A 1000$ rental gets you much more luxury than the same amount would get you in the west. But a 500$ monthly budget is pretty poor lifestyle in the long run even in South-East Asia, though I agree not quite as desolate and impoverished as you'd be in Europe or America :))

<comment><USER12> I had some super interesting housing arrangements the whole time I was there.

One of the more interesting ones...

[http://richerd.com/2011/09/03/sleeping-on-the-streets-of- kua...](http://richerd.com/2011/09/03/sleeping-on-the-streets-of-kuala- lumpur/)

<comment><USER13> Yeah I heard of your sleeping rough back in the day from bearwithclaws :D

So yeah we're definitely in agreement. You can survive for $500 easily -- if you find a 'bed' that costs $0 ;P

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I only have 4 years of experience in the field. ~3 years at a big social network in europe. We got beaten by Facebook. Then I switched to Consultancy work, yes the J2EE weblogic corporate mangers-all-over-the-place kind of work.

But after a year I stopped and joined a startup in the mobile industry. I coudn't be more pleased.

To you: \- Do it! \- The gap doesnt matter, if you can explain properly \- Dont start working fulltime alone, either have a companion, work somewhere were similar people do the same thing, or have a second job on the side. This is mostly for social reasons. \- If you want to work in the startup world, try to do something apart from j2ee. But I see you want to do mobile dev, good choice!

You should think twice about what your motivaions are, do you want to become an entrepeneur? Or you just want to be happy with your job? Dont make the wrong choices for the wrong reasons.

<comment><AUTHOR> > You should think twice about what your motivaions are, do you want to become > an entrepeneur? Or you just want to be happy with your job? Dont make the > wrong choices for the wrong reasons.

This is a great question. I think my main goal would be autonomy. Being able to go hiking in the morning and then work through the night. I never understood why we're forced to spend the days pent up in office buildings.

The other thing: Since I was a kid with a Commodore 64, I've been wanting to develop games. Just small, quirky, but fun and captivating games. This might be the chance to go after that childhood dream, as silly as it may sound.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> If you are risk averse (assuming you are because you have lived corporate life for 12 years) I'd recommend working for a small company first, for at least 6 months. There are many aspects of running the company and your own product which you don't see in a corporation. This will help you prepare for launching your own enterprise.

</comment><comment><USER16> I'd probably try to emphasize "left to go do a startup" on your resume, whether or not it works out, whether or not you approach it as an 80 (or even 40) hour/week thing, rather than "took time off".

But, otherwise, this is absolutely _good_ for your resume, I think. Assuming there's no huge change in the market, you should be as employable if not more. Maybe try to stay involved in the .NET/J2EE developer community once a month or so, keep in touch with former coworkers, etc. in case you decide to go back to that instead of mobile, though.

</comment><comment><USER17> Neither you are crazy nor you are the only with such feelings. I am a 3x entrepreneur, have sold 2 companies and 25 years old. I am working for the acquirer of my last company for last 14 months and I am already tired of writing code for someone else. I am all set to leave my six figure salary and keep hacking & building products that inner me wants to build. Believe me, getting a job at the same pay scale will never be a problem for you. Go ahead and start working on your own ideas full time.

</comment><comment><USER18> Lets me tell you my story, I was in UK working for a small consulting company as .Net developer, then I decided to come back to Vietnam and started my own company , outsourcing back to the company that I have worked for. The company has started ok with 4 people, but over the last year or so, besides doing outsource, we stated several projects but none of them has gone well so far. Further, the company has been hit by the economic crisis as many other companies, so its finance hasn't been in a good state. Due to my personal financial need since my marriage, I have once again got a corporate company working as PM/Developer with an high pay ( in Vietnam), but at the same time try to keep my business alive. It has been one year since I started working here, and even though I don't think I have done a bad job with the salary increase, but I honestly never have been enjoyed a single day of it. I am determined to quit the job and get back to my business as it has started to pick up again, we also preparing to launch a mobile product shortly.

All in all, I think the stories that you guys have put here is such a good inspiration for me to get back to start up world, enjoying every day of coding and hacking. Hopefully, one day my product will make to the top of hackernews.

</comment><comment><USER19> Do it, and make sure to use your time off wisely. You have enough savings, you're single. If you're gonna do it, now is the time. I'm in a somewhat similar situation. I've been working in the Bay Area as an ASIC validation engineer in a big semiconductor company for the past few years. I'm 30 years old. I've also gotten quite bored with work, so on the side I've been doing some mobile development (Android then iOS). I just very recently (Friday) started interviewing and it seems that the demand is pretty high. (I've gotten several requests on linkedIn before even publishing any apps). The transition for you should be even smoother since you have a background in CS. I feel that you can't go wrong by taking some time-off, work on your own projects then decide whether to join a company or start your own. I don't have as much savings as you, so my goal is to quit my job and find another job in Mobile Development, while working on my own project on the side. In all cases, best of luck!

Here is the app that I released about a week ago (shameless plug): [https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dish./id648176152?ls=1&m...](https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dish./id648176152?ls=1&mt=8)

<comment><USER19> I just gave my resignation notice about an hour ago (no joke). Whatever you decide to do, best of luck!

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Some more data points and thoughts:

\- I have 23 days of PTO per year, which is generous for the US. I did several two week trips the past years, mostly to Asia. My job is fairly low stress, I work less than 40 hours per week. But still, as soon as I set a foot into the office, it feels like all life energy gets sapped out of me. Maybe it's the fluorescent lighting? The crappy HVAC that oscillates between freezing and muggy? The open office plan we moved to last year? The constant sitting? As soon as I'm on my bike on the way home, I feel better.

\- Worst case, if I do it: I get lazy and don't do anything during my time off, and won't have anything to show for at the end. But that's entirely in my control, and I won't have anyone to blame but myself.

\- I read many blogs and comments about this. A recurring theme is people saying "I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to bring myself to go back to work after taking such a long time off." While I can see the point, aren't they implicitly admitting that there is something wrong with their current situation?

<comment><USER20> > The constant sitting?

Try to get a standing desk. It worked wonders for me.

<comment><AUTHOR> I've been talking to my manager about this. The problem is, after moving to an open floor plan, paradoxically we don't have room anymore.

I'm trying to work standing up for a bit. It does help, but of course is far from ergonomic at a regular desk. It probably also looks ridiculous, me doing a semi-split to get low enough to reach the keyboard and mouse.

<comment><USER20> Try using a few reams of copy paper (or books and boxes etc) to prop up monitors and input devices. I had such a makeshift setup at first.

Also, have you tried working from home? Orthogonally, negotiating a four day work week 4x8h (at 80% pay) might help you enjoy yourself more. Managment might not be too happy, but if you insist and tell them that the alternative is 0 day work week at 0% pay (i.e. you leave), they might see the light.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Not sure if this is a popular sentiment, but the Bay Area is expensive. I would probably move to a cheaper area for a while if I wanted to work on cool stuff on my own for a while without taking a nice salary.

<comment><USER22> If you are smart you can live in Bay area with under than $800 per month everything included (rent+food+bills+gas+insurance). That's what I am doing right now and working on my start-up at the same time.

<comment><USER21> I guess you can start by living in one of a three-bed apt. in Sunnyvale!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Would it be possible to make a few apps on the side, see if they get any traction and then decide whether or not to jump? You could try taking a month off (without resigning) just to work full time on this. This way you could figure out if you're passionate about mobile apps without actually giving up your job.

<comment><AUTHOR> I have a line of Android apps that have a few thousand downloads. So far I've made about $30 in half a year with ads. But I'm positive that it would be a different story if I could dedicate myself to that full time.

<comment><USER23> Cool, so it sounds like you know what you're doing and you've got a pretty long runway. Go ahead, jump. This will probably end well.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Oh wow, I'm actually trying to make that decision right now too. Thanks for posting this.

I've been building something in my spare time and between freelance gigs. It's at a good working prototype stage. I just want to spend a solid month polishing, plugging in minimally required data, release it and see what happens from there.

At the same time, I've just been offered a new contract which will put my project on the slow track for a good half year but it's money coming in.

Being able to focus on something that I'm interested in is amazing. My creativity flows and I see results occur at a pace that keeps motivated even more.

Yet, I don't know what decision to make - Financially sound status quo or happy pipe-dream.

but... I'm reading everyone's comments with great interest.

</comment><comment><USER25> No, you don't.

I think it might help to change the way you look at this. It is not only a problem but also a big chance to find something that fuldills you again. I went to the same situation but with lot less savings. It was damn hard and still isn't all sunshine, but i do not regret leaving my boring well paying job at MS for a second. Problems will occur but they are also solved on the way.

Read Books on the topic, make a solid plan, and then learn to trust in yourself and let go. Might sound oversimplified but sometimes you have to make a change in order to get what you really want in the end. You're not alone in this. There were thousands that did the move. Best of luck.

</comment><comment><USER26> People here have given great motivating responses. But In don't think anyone has answered the whether it would be hard to get an job again after a big gap if you decide to get one again. It seems like you want to continue coding in some form, so really there will be no gap of experience in your resume.

If anything finding people who have built products themselves and put them out there is great to see and are hugely valuable to an enlightened organization. Whenever I interview people this is always a fun part of the conversation. I find that those people are very likely to be tuned to building great products and are the kind of people I want to work with.

</comment><comment><USER27> I'm not an expert or anything, so take my personal opinion with a grain of salt. If you aren't happy, do something about it. Otherwise, in a couple years, you will wake up miserable feeling like you have cheated yourself out of the most precious thing we can never get back - time. You are the CEO of your own life. Enjoy your journey, take risks, and don't be afraid of being a little foolish - so long as it is in a smart way. Good luck!

(FWIW I skipped out on traditional job offers after getting my masters to begin a startup)

</comment><comment><USER21> You're definitely not crazy. I am not as far into my own career as you, but I would even say that it seems the crazy thing to do, in your position, is to do nothing. You want more from life? Get it! You _will_ be able to find a job later, guaranteed, especially if you kept hacking after leaving your big-co job! (Do re-adjust expectations, though. A start-up will not pay you nearly as much as your last job did, although you should get stock. You know all this, but it will still be a big change.)

</comment><comment><USER28> Do it. The kind of people who will look down on you for taking risks are not the kind of people you want to work for.

In general, it sounds like you've taken a very safe / corporate path with your career. Pays well, but it's boring. That might be the problem. I did a year in a big company and haven't worked any sizeable since. I know guys who earn six figures a year working at banks, but the crap they have to put up with -- what's the point?

</comment><comment><USER29> So just as everyone else has said in this thread -- sounds like you have enough of a cushion to do just about whatever you damn well please for at least 2 years (taking into the account the possibility that you decided to live as a rockstar at ~5x above your current means)

What I do want to say -- and I'm really unsure that I should be saying it at all (since I'm not your dad, but then again, this is the internet)

Maybe you should start at least considering settling down somewhere? I don't mean settle down somewhere and enter a company you hate for the rest of your life just for job security, but more like pick a place (or search for) a place you want to be in for a long time

With IT/software skills like yours, I doubt there are many people who won't see your value at a technical company, and that will enable you to get a job in most places, but being transient forever (even if you're writing awesome software) doesn't seem like a wholesome plan

I'm definitely assuming too much, and I don't know anything (outside of this post) about you or your goals, but just figured I should at least make the point

Also, your Honolulu-as-a-place-to-live idea sounds amazing

<comment><AUTHOR> Your assumptions go in the right direction. I think the Bay Area is an amazing place to live, not the worst place to raise a family. But somehow I don't have much luck with the dating scene here (living in the South Bay). San Francisco might be a bit better, but it's almost impossible to find an apartment at the moment. And even here it gets a bit too cold for my taste sometimes, which is weird to say for someone who grew up in central Europe. Maybe another move will make me a more interesting, well-rounded person. Maybe an environment that's not dominated by technology might be a good place to recharge my batteries. At the very least it's an adventure and a cool story to tell.

<comment><USER29> Yeah, I've only visited the Bay area & California in general, but definitely finding a place you want to be in is what I was going for -- it seems you're already thinking about that, which makes sense.

Maybe some places that recently had tech booms might be good idea? Though I don't know where you'll find better general weather than California -- Seattle? Austin? New York? Dallas? Chicago?

I live in Texas, but I do have to warn you, it gets cold here from time to time when the wind blows in the winter. sometimes

[EDIT] - Of course, outside America might be a good fit too, there are so many places, and it seems like you've got pretty much free reign -- you've got a pretty rare chance I don't think many people get (though we all decide our daily lives, I don't think many people get as clear a decision point as you have right now), enjoy it

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> I don't think you're committing career suicide. Sticking around indefinitely while you're miserable will not only suck the life out of you, but your drive to do well at work.

Might I recommend a book called Quitter by Jon Acuff? He's done a couple of books about making the leap from the corporate world to a more fulfilling "dream" job. It was a good, quick read.

If you've got the savings and a decent plan, I'd say go for it.

</comment><comment><USER31> If you are a decent programmer, you should be able to find some sort of satisfactory-paying work even with the "gap" you describe. And if you truly have 5-10 years of savings, you have more than enough cushion to try working for yourself for a year. Try to retain some discipline as you go. If after a year or two you're not able to make anything work, consider looking for a boss again.

</comment><comment><USER32> Come live in Asia for 6 months. Cut your costs, have a break.

Word of warning - Its easy to take a break and end up getting nothing done. Set boundaries.

</comment><comment><USER33> I am right now going through the similar stage that I wanna do something for myself. I am just 4 years in this carrier and have no savings. Still I thought to take a chance, but my friends didn't allowed me to do it.

So right now I am working for myself during the nights, sacrificing some of my sleep.

If I where you or have some saving, I will definitely go for it.

</comment><comment><USER34> You're absolutely not crazy. I'm 30 and in the midst of traveling the US meeting with software developers for 5 months. Every minute, both the ups and downs, have been worth it. Check out my site codingacrossamerica.com and shoot me an email if you're interested in figuring out whether this is the right path for you.

</comment><comment><USER35> Relevant:

[http://lionoftheblogosphere.wordpress.com/2013/05/25/sucks-t...](http://lionoftheblogosphere.wordpress.com/2013/05/25/sucks- to-be-an-old-engineer/)

[http://blogaborty.blogspot.in/2013/04/no-country-for-old- pro...](http://blogaborty.blogspot.in/2013/04/no-country-for-old- programmers.html)

</comment><comment><USER36> Ask yourself this- Do you want to work for anyone in the future that would hold this against you?

You don't sound like you do.

</comment><comment><USER37> There will be no gap in your resume as long as you can exactly explain what you have done in these years. Get a business registration and try the self employment. If you fail your new employer will appreciate your "research" time in development and learning.

</comment><comment><USER38> Here's a dude who took a year "off" with his family and cranked out an iPhone app.

[http://www.npr.org/2013/05/20/183910777/seeing-the- northern-...](http://www.npr.org/2013/05/20/183910777/seeing-the-northern- light-a-temporary-arctic-retirement)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for this link! I've been reading a lot of blogs lately, but haven't seen this article. I've seen the TED talk mentioned in the article, and it was an inspiration to my idea, along with the Four Hour Work Week of course.

Quite a few people seem to be able to make a living as indie developers. But I wonder how many fail, without making their story public. People like to read about success stories, but not about failures.

<comment><USER38> I've also read Ferriss. Interesting ideas but I'm not sure how applicable it'd be. I like the idea of work hard for 10 yrs and take "off" a year or two better. :-)

If you ever want to meet up and chat, feel free to ping me. I've been doing indie development for ~3 yrs.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> I can't tell you where to go or what to do, but if you just hate what you do, might as well try to find something different.

Many people in this world do not enjoy their jobs, but you appear to have the resources and the freedom to try to find the job you like.

P.S. Here's an idea. Have you considered going back to school for a Master's, if you don't already have one? That could give you more personal time to explore side projects (as well as hopefully working on something cool for your degree), handily explains 2-3 years of gap in employment history, and you come out with a degree. Thus allowing you to hedge your bets in case you have to rejoin the corporate world later.

<comment><AUTHOR> I applied to SJSU, they have a Master's program with emphasis on mobile development. But after the budget cuts they seem to be really struggling, bureaucratically. I haven't heard anything from them other than "we received your documents, we'll process them within a week". That was two months ago. I haven't really followed up with them and asked what's going on, which I guess is a sign that I'm not really passionate about that idea...

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> Sometimes you have to take a few steps back in order to achieve or figure out your so called dream job. Bare in mind cash is a limited motivator as it will never fulfill the drive and passion you have to achieve more. Don't take me wrong money is important but personally I would prefer having a mediocre salary for a while and know that I am on the way to achieve the "real" thing.

You sound like you are having the usual symptoms of wanting to do your own thing. Remember that if you don't try you will never find out. This is me speaking from experience. Best of luck!

</comment><comment><USER41> Maybe. But if you don't do it now, it'll just become harder and you'll regret not doing it all your life.

I did something similar, but I did it much before 30. Haven't regretted it so far.

Go for it.

</comment><comment><USER42> I think you should go for it.

I'm currently in a similar situation. I started learning how to program about a year ago and even got a job at a startup. I really want to learn iOS dev because just being a RoR dev will limit my career path real soon. I quit my job a few weeks ago and have been spending all my time learning iOS dev. My goal is to find another job after I'm comfortable with iOS.

</comment><comment><USER43> I can't speak to the resume "gap", but I can promise you that this will make you a better developer by a ridiculous amount.

</comment><comment><USER44> > I'm in my mid-late thirties, will I even find a new job with a gap in my > resume like this?

Certainly not at a big company.

</comment><comment><USER22> I'd suggest quitting your job and traveling around the world for a couple of months. Go to unfamiliar countries such as India, China, Japan, Korea, Peru,....

It will open your mind and give you life changing experiences. Stop working on some app...Go for something big. it will come to you

</comment><comment><USER45> If you've got that much money saved, you should be working for yourself, making awesome applications and changing the world.

Don't worry about a gap in your resume, you'll probably make something notable on your own that could carry your career/life into a new direction.

</comment><comment><USER46> Do you think you would fare well at designing and coding app's for the iPhone or Android? It would be a shame to waste your skill, but you could put it to good use and make some $$$ at the same time, at your own pace?

</comment><comment><USER47> If you have 12 years of experience, are in the Bay Area, and can do mobile dev work, you should have no trouble finding a new job paying six digits if your entrepreneurial plans do not pan out.

</comment><comment><USER48> This might help. The Jeff Bezos regret minimization framework: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwG_qR6XmDQ>

</comment><comment><USER49> You know how to code. Take time off if you have savings. You will find a job if you desire going back to work for someone else.

</comment><comment><USER50> if anything, i feel like you should be more employable if you decided to pursue mobile development rather than continue on with .NET.

</comment><comment><USER51> a change is as good as a holiday....also sounds like there is a dearth of stimulating conversation at your current gig.

</comment><comment><USER52> Who, if not you (!!!), should do this?</comment>