HN Salary Survey Results, Fall 2014 - <AUTHOR> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Mr201gfDoOTe5ONLS6LYJi1wQbtT26srXeSwUjMK0A/edit?usp=sharing <comment><USER3> Great work! It would be interesting to have a yes/no column as: "Do you think you are being underpaid?" or "Are you happy?"

It gives a different perspective on $$ / quality of life.

</comment><comment><USER4> This is nicely put together - however, for future versions it might be nice to include a column on years of experience. Labels like "Mid" or "Senior" mean different things at different companies.

<comment><USER5> Yeah this would be a much better metric. I'm a "senior" developer who only has 3 years experience.

<comment><USER6> Similarly, until very recently I was "senior" with 15 years.

At my company it actually means "senior", there are places I've worked where people have the senior title who would be multiple rungs lower on the ladder at my current company.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Results were gathered in August 2014 by Cameron Moll. The sample size (471) is rather small and therefore should not be construed as indicative nor representative of the entire HN audience.

<comment><USER7> The sample size doesn't indicate how representative a sample is, the polling method does. In this case, it's almost certainly not representative - <USER2> polls rarely are. But even a sample of 5000 wouldn't be representative.

You may be thinking of statistical significance. 471 is actually often a pretty good sample size, you would e.g. need <100 responses to have a fairly significant estimate of the mean salary of HNers (assuming a representative sample).

<comment><AUTHOR> Excellent point.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> So the takeaway here is that in the hot/big markets (LA, SF, Boston, NYC) a decent engineer can earn 90-140k without much hassle and a bit of luck to get the job in teh first place. In the secondary markets, an engineer can earn 60-100k. Not at all surprisingly, secondary markets now includes what would have been developing countries ten years ago. Europe still lags the US overall, and software is undoubtedly a global economic force doing much good in what are still developing countries.

</comment><comment><USER9> Is there a xls file export link too? I find the read only interface a bit harder to deal with.

<comment><USER10> I made a copy of it, I don't know how I managed to do it anymore, but you can get a copy yourself using my copy:

[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Y6yI- MSD6DgNjiVIuweS...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Y6yI- MSD6DgNjiVIuweSvDzO2s2hKB69aRXQYtR2_ks/edit?usp=sharing)

<comment><USER11> I made a local copy: `curl "[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Mr201gfDoOTe5ONLS6L...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Mr201gfDoOTe5ONLS6LYJi1wQbtT26srXeSwUjMK0A/htmlview?usp=sharing&sle=true") > salary.html`

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> To the Sr dev in texas making 65k you seem underpaid to all the rest in tx. Are you the only employee? I work in DFW and SR's make 90-110k.

</comment><comment><USER13> Nice work. Now just waiting for someone to normalize (currency) & throw it on a map :)

</comment><comment><USER14> I cleaned it a bit, and converted everything to USD

[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nMraZeE33lnGNO8m0Bn0...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nMraZeE33lnGNO8m0Bn0uimPBhlPc9SesKKYxMy7Z7I/)

</comment><comment><USER15> Here are some stats and crappy bar charts:

[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1504Sy29t1uUw_B8zTbeLIPCH...](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1504Sy29t1uUw_B8zTbeLIPCHFhleZkgGF-3KO96Do7Q/edit?usp=sharing)

</comment><comment><USER16> I found it unusual a number of Directors had reported their salaries in the $120,000 to $150,000 range. I used to assume that most people at that level might be making more.

<comment><USER17> Titles tend to be a very poor indicator of actual responsibility or skills.

<comment><USER18> And don't forget company size.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Will Objective C and iOS continue to be desired, high paying skills? Seems like Android is taking over the market.

</comment><comment><USER20> Salaries in CAD aren't impressive.

</comment><comment><USER21> This is great, and I hope it becomes a regular thing.

</comment><comment><USER22> Is that engineer reporting the $750,000 salary statistically significant? I feel that based on the averages excluding this salary it would be best to view that data point as an outlier.

<comment><USER23> The natural way to discount outliers is to use medians instead of averages.

<comment><USER18> Yup. What pisses me off is that they're so expensive to compute :-)

Not in this data set of course, but if you do any kind of image processing ...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Can we get an exportable version of this?

<comment><USER10> here is a copy I made: [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Y6yI- MSD6DgNjiVIuweS...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Y6yI- MSD6DgNjiVIuweSvDzO2s2hKB69aRXQYtR2_ks/edit?usp=sharing)

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> You forgot the company I work for. We have 1000 employees and everyone makes exactly one billion dollars a month. This data, while nicely summarized, is heavily biased and I doubt it can produce meaningful results.</comment>


Fonts Used by US Court of Appeals in Opinions - <AUTHOR> https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/ge0o5j/fonts_used_by_us_courts_of_appeals_in_opinions/ <comment><USER2> I really appreciate this research. Serifed Fonts make sense for legal briefs. The fact that so many judges are drafting documents in monospaced Courier is rather surprising, though I guess the skeuomorphism may have some appeal to typewriter nostalgia. The thing that I immediately think of when I see this are the old threads on programming fonts here on Hacker News: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1058946](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1058946) There was a ton of variety, but everyone was using a monospaced gothic font.</comment>


Self-driving cars will have to pry the steering wheel from our cold, dead hands - <AUTHOR> http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/28/13076948/self-driving-car-poll-autonomy-kelley-blue-book <comment><USER3> I love driving. I love cars; the engineering behind them; the luxury; the design; high end ones are works of art by skilled craftsmen and very bright engineers.

And I 99% welcome self driving cars. Every single day on my short 5 mile / 10 minute commute to and from work, I see no less then someone cutting someone off; someone texting while driving / on the phone; someone slam on their breaks to stop for a yellow light; someone eating or drinking something, etc...

Humans are getting worse at driving. Distractions are everywhere. Young drivers are inexperienced; old drivers have slower reaction times and everyone in the middle is to busy worrying about what to do for dinner, or getting to their doctors appointment on time or whatever then to actually focus on the act of driving.

The 1% where I don't welcome self driving cars is when I'm out for a drive on any given Sunday in a nice sporty car and am driving purely for the thrill of driving. That 1% of the time, I want to be in control. I want to feel the road through the steering wheel; the sound of the engine and if weather permits, the breeze through the windows.

Every other time - on my way to work; grocery shopping; running errands - <USER2> ahead, drive me. But give me the option to take control when I want to.

As much as everyone says this is right around the corner, I still think a car driving itself will be limited to nice weather. No one has yet to address how a self driving car, drives, when theres 3 feet of snow on the ground, visibility is < 1000 feet and even lightly touching the breaks causes sliding. Not everyone lives south of the snow belt.</comment>


Ask HN: What mistakes should one avoid as a new freelancer? - <AUTHOR> If you could go back in time and start all over again, what would you do differently ? What are the hard lessons that you learned throughout your career as a freelancer ? <comment><USER2> I'm actually writing about this exact thing: [https://kirubakaran.com/blog/consulting- outline/](https://kirubakaran.com/blog/consulting-outline/)

But to answer your question:

It seems obvious that you trade the low variance pay of a salaried job for higher variance but generally higher expected value of consulting pay + other lifestyle benefits. But it is hard to actually internalize this.

That is, you're happy when your pipeline is full and you're making a lot of money. But you can't work at this pace for ever. So, when there are natural lulls and you aren't making any money for a bit, instead of being miserable, you should know that it is a part of how it is and be thankful for the break and catch up on all the sci-fi books you've been meaning to read.

It took me a while to not stress too much about these lulls and instead make the best of it.

</comment><comment><USER3> Don't charge too low for the sake of getting a freelance project. I recall my first project was a travel site, I quoted way less than I should have ($700) and I thought it was fantastic. I only charged so low to compete with overseas freelancers. Once you take away tax and the fact the project took me 3 months, not so great after all.</comment>


Music For Coding - <AUTHOR> http://www.henriquebarroso.com/music-for-coding/

<comment><USER3> I can't work in complete silence, I'm easily distracted at the best of times. I agree with a lot of the selection there, the rest... I'm going to have to try out as I've never heard them before.

A good source for working I've found is Stoner/Doom. It's so washed out and not in your face with insane tempo changes.

Dead Roots Stirring - Elder, Dopesmoker - Sleep, Eternal Season - <USER2>

Also for some ambient stuff take a look at:

Dredd Soundtrack - Paul Leonard-Morgan, 2nd Disc of The Awakening - Send More Paramedics, Mass Effect Soundtracks

</comment><comment><USER4> I'm there with you. I have to have music while coding. Thanks for the list of new (to me) music.

<comment><AUTHOR> You're welcome :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I personally find that I cannot code when I have music playing, because music distracts me and I find myself listening to the music instead of being able to think about the problem. I concentrate best in silence.

</comment><comment><USER6> Youtube has a huge list of "Chillout Ambient Mix" which is quite good to program or read books with. There's also classical music.

</comment><comment><USER7> I'm a fan of Music for Programming. <http://musicforprogramming.net/></comment>


What are the best ways to grow my email list for email marketing? - <AUTHOR> I want more email subscription on my Magneto 2 eCommerce store. Is there any technique, process or extension which can help me regarding this. <comment><USER2> [https://optinmonster.com/9-lead-magnets-to-increase- subscrib...](https://optinmonster.com/9-lead-magnets-to-increase-subscribers/)</comment>


Zoox, a Robo-Taxi Start-Up Taking on Google and Uber - <AUTHOR> http://spectrum.ieee.org/transportation/advanced-cars/meet-zoox-the-robotaxi-startup-taking-on-google-and-uber <comment><USER2> And i though self driving car is a hard technological problem.

Silly me. It's a design problem.

<comment><USER3> Yup.

We don't even have "cruise control" that is usable in the wintertime -- but we just placidly believe every yahoo who claims to have solved the problem of completely autonomous driving!

Have we ever heard of Unit Testing? It is unlikely that my 10-line function is 100% correct. But, I just _know_ that any random company's Autonomous Vehicle is certainly able to handle black ice in a white-out. What could possibly go wrong?

<comment><USER4> Unlike a privately owned autonomous vehicle, a taxi has very little need for environment flexibility. The article says they're planning to start in a "sunny city like Las Vegas", where there's unlikely to be much black ice... and even if they operate solely in such sunny cities for a decade, there's still enough market for them to grow huge. Of course, anyone who _can_ make a vehicle that can handle white-outs will have an advantage, but I haven't heard even Google claiming to have a handle on that.

<comment><USER2> Let's be more realistic here. In any weather condition - this thing will live and die on reliability.

To get to the needed reliability(say 10x better than humans, i.e one accident per 2.5 million miles you need to drive at least 25 million miles, but considering the variety of situations this needs to be tested against , maybe more than a billion miles). To solve this google has built a simulator simulating all the roads of california(4 million miles) with a variety of situations and is lobbying to get this approved as a way for testing. And that's just for testing. You still have to solve problem!

Another data point - hyundai will be investing $70 billion in the next few years and wants to hire 7000 new engineers to work on their self driving car project.

This is not startup land.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Here is some concept art from Zoox, I'm not sure if they have pivoted from this idea or not though.

[http://ideas.4brad.com/world-goes-gaga-cool-concept- prototyp...](http://ideas.4brad.com/world-goes-gaga-cool-concept-prototypes)

I'm glad autonomous and electric vehicles are quickly becoming a thing, this will be great to have.

</comment><comment><USER6> I notice they're using 8 of the smaller Velodyne VLP-16 LIDAR units. Those things have finally come down in size. The previous $100K version was too big, too clunky, and too fragile.

Google is moving to that, too. I saw two Google self-driving cars today, of different designs. The newer one has smaller Velodyne VLP-16 units at the corners, and some big scanner, probably an HDL-32E, under a dome at the top of the vehicle. The older one has the clunky old HDL-64E spinning around on top.

The LIDAR industry needs better designs and more volume. These are experimental units produced in tiny quantities. They're not suitable for a volume product yet.

<comment><USER7> Lidars need to get cheaper - so do decent RTK GPS receivers and IMUs. They're all expensive at the moment because the economies of scale are so limited.

But you know what industry is great at economies of scale? The car industry. You'll be able to get a sensor that outperforms that $100K sensor for $100 when they're fitted as standard on every car.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> So in ten years LA will be a sea of crawling autonomous vehicles.

Where are the mass transit startups?

<comment><USER9> Yes and no. Each individual won't have the need or financial incentive to own an individual vehicle like today. There should be less vehicles overall.

Regardless of that, Uber is a mass transit startup, and so is this...

<comment><USER10> Or people will own one for status and call upon another for various routine tasks...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> If there will be fully automated city taxis and automated rental of cars similar to car pools for long distance travel then I think the car industry will be in trouble. It will be more economical in the sharing industry to share a newer car with others than to own your own depending on utilization rate.

</comment><comment><USER12> "At the moment, mobility is crushing the soul: Don't speed, don't drink, don't text. [...] What inspires me... is giving back people their lifestyles, so they can do what they want to do: texting, vegging out, drinking."

Texting, vegging out, and drinking: truly the heights to which the soul would soar if not crushed by the villain of driving.

<comment><USER13> > Texting, vegging out, and drinking: truly the heights to which the soul > would soar if not crushed by the villain of driving.

How about, "Providing efficiencies that would allow us to reduce the work week from 5 days to 4, thereby providing more time for people to actually live their lives"?

Whenever another self driving car or truck article hits hacker news, I cringe at the inevitable post from someone who says "Ahh! Now they can code why the vehicle drives itself! They can be even more productive!"

That is not what life is about. To _you_ , it might be, but the purpose of life is not work. Work is simply a means of supporting yourself while you experience life.

<comment><USER14> We are getting off topic but I agree advances today are a massive opportunity to introduce a standard 4 day week. I feel this is much more short term achievable social advance than the often mentioned basic income. I've had this discussion a few times and the majority of people say a 4 day week is impossible/unrealistic. I enjoy pointing out ~80 years ago we had a 6 day work week and people were saying all the same excuses why we couldn't do a 5 day week. And given for most of us corporate types, the work day is typically going far beyond the 9-5 hours of a traditional day. Now our 40 hour week is easily covered in the 4 days.

On a more personal note I'm wondering if your European. I find most Americans are very work obsessed. The idea life is for living and a job is a means to fund that is very foreign. I've found generally withing the first 10 minutes of conversation with someone from the states Ive not met before, they will say this phrase: "I love my job". I'm Australian and while we are heading toward the US view we have a history of life is for living and I'd hate to see that go.

<comment><USER15> There was and still is a very big push in the States to find your life's fulfillment in your work first. Its very ingrained into our culture these days. I think it stems from the old cliche "if you love your job, you'll never work a day in your life".

Doing work that you hate is maybe not frowned upon, but if you have that sentiment people will strongly advise you to switch career paths to something that you would find more fulfillment in.

<comment><USER14> From the "I love my job" I get the feeling it's almost a career obligation to have this view. The view good employees think like this and you're no good at your job if you aren't passionate.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Question: Would you rather be in an autonomous car or in a car driven remotely by someone else?

<comment><USER17> I'd 100% rather be in an autonomous car. I wouldn't trust a car driven remotely by someone else for a number of reasons:

1\. Latency

2\. Signal quality

3\. Driver attention (are they thinking about their bladder or stomach? Is someone else talking to them? Did their phone ring? Unlike a real driver, I can't tell.)</comment></comment>


Clang is the next Webkit - <AUTHOR> http://kickingbear.com/blog/archives/531 <comment><USER2> If you like Clang, I hope it's not the next WebKit, because WebKit is down to ~10% share[1].

As was noted[2] at the time, Google probably forked WebKit because it was too bloated for mobile and they wanted more power to cut things out. I don't know if that will happen to Clang, but it's worth noting as long as we're using this analogy.

1\. [http://gs.statcounter.com/#all- browser_version_partially_com...](http://gs.statcounter.com/#all- browser_version_partially_combined-ww-monthly-201504-201504-bar)

2\. [http://www.zdnet.com/article/the-real-reason-why-google- fork...](http://www.zdnet.com/article/the-real-reason-why-google-forked- webkit/)</comment>


adobe is going to make an online photo editor - <AUTHOR> http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9588_22-6163015.html <comment><USER2> I read this sort of pre-announcement as a sign of panic. "Wait! Don't use any of those web-based Photoshop replacements. We're going to write a web-based image editor ourselves."

</comment><comment><USER3> ...to the dismay of snipshot?

http://snipshot.com</comment>


Ask HN: When will we reach the limits of scientific or industrial progress? - <AUTHOR> It seems there are a finite number of ways to do something well or to make a process more efficient. When will we run out of ways to improve things? What will society look like when that time comes? <comment><USER2> Humans will reach their natural limits, but machines will take us higher.

<comment><USER3> > _machines will_

They already are, and they also have their "natural limits" \- everything does.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> > _improve_

Depends on the meaning of the word, but it may vary from society to society and from person to person. Some would say that we are already in a phase where we are "improving" things that are not in need of improvement. (For example, not everyone likes having a touch-screen in their car.)

</comment><comment><USER4> Never, our tech will advance but our needs/wants change too. So we can never reach the end.

</comment><comment><USER5> I think at a certain point everything will be digitized, and the only inefficiency will be humans themselves. Eventually we will be replaced. So "our" innovation will end when we end and the next phase in evolution will continue.

<comment><USER3> The idea behind the perceived need to seek perfection (and the hope to find it) is flawed: the only thing that that cannot be perfected any further is the Void. The idea of replacing everything with the Void (i.e. of total destruction) is not all that different, as it might seem, from the idea of replacing the humans with something "more efficient."</comment></comment>


What it feels like to drive a Tesla on autopilot - <AUTHOR> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/02/01/what-it-feels-like-to-drive-a-tesla-on-autopilot/ <comment><USER2> Somehow, I imagine the "take control" alarm sounding just like the red alert klaxon from Star Trek TOS.</comment>


IBM Contributing A2O Processor Core to OpenPOWER Community - <AUTHOR> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=IBM-OpenPOWER-A2O <comment><USER2> Is this the most capable open-source core we've seen? Not sure how it compares to BOOM. Are there any other out-of-order designs which have been open sourced?</comment>


When You Don't Make the Front Page of Hacker News - <AUTHOR> http://blog.interviewsy.com/post/75118833004/when-you-dont-make-the-front-page-of-hacker-news <comment><USER2> ...Write A Blog Post About It That Makes the Front Page of Hacker News Instead?

</comment><comment><USER3> I can almost 100% guarantee you that having an automatic slider killed a lot of upvotes for you. I'm not trying to be a dick, I've actually seen this over an over, and I experience it as a user - if I see a Show HN, I'm upvoting unless I have a reason not to. I despite automatic sliders, and yours is particularly egregious. Long term, it's a tiny mistake in what seems to be an otherwise interesting project, so I'd do a way with it immediately to avoid the distraction.

<comment><AUTHOR> Fair point. I'm actually not a big fan of the automatic sliding either. I just didn't think to take it off. I'll definitely do that now.

<comment><USER4> The upside is that people have to be quick to spot the typos, e.g. "miriad" ;).

<comment><USER5> Made that teeny bit worse by the following 'of'.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Don't take not making the front page on HN as product validity as 99% of posters here are not the target market of 100% of the 'Show HN' posts here.

btw: You summed it up pretty nice in your blog post!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! It can be a little disappointing not making a big splash but I just hope that little post helps others in similar situations remember to keep the longer view.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> I am interested what happens when you don't initially make it to the front page, but then your postmortem does, and it links you to your original project. What is the conversion % of people who then check it out?

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, I think that will be an interesting followup post.

<comment><USER8> I'm even more interested in the conversion rate for the front page HN generated visitor boom, and actual long term gain. But that might be too hard to measure.

I myself always visit the sites but I cannot remember I have been using one for longer than a day.

<comment><USER9> If he's using Google Analytics it should be fairly straightforward to tie conversions back to the referral source.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Aside from just having a good article/project, it takes good timing, good luck, and sometimes some good upvotes from friends to make the front page. I've had a few things which I was sure would take off not make the front page, including a combined ruby and rails security vulnerability, as well as a project with plenty of publicity and 50,000+ views on XDA.

</comment><comment><USER11> Wow, you hacked HN whit this post to be on the frontpage congratz you made it and now i will check interviewsy.com.

</comment><comment><USER12> Upvoted for the irony!

My 1st two start-ups made the front-page.

My current and I think best yet hasn't had the same good fortune.

good luck to you!

<comment><AUTHOR> Haha, I know, right?? What's your current project? I love checking out what people are passionate about.

<comment><USER12> Thanks

Our web app turns a crowd & their devices into a huge stereo system; all devices play same audio in sync.

[http://SpeakerBlast.com](http://SpeakerBlast.com)

We think it's cool, but maybe people don't see it being useful? We use it at home to fill our house with audio.

<comment><USER12> Thank you!

Hmmm so do you think we should use images of the supported platforms/browsers instead of all that heavy text?

<comment><USER13> Potentially, depends how it would look visually I guess. You could just display a little message saying the platform isn't supported yet and linking to the FAQ perhaps.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Your landing page is not the thing. And you get the right feedback to tell you that: no votes. So why complain about it instead of working on it? You seem to have spent a lot of time on your tool. Landing page is were you have to work on now!

</comment><comment><USER15> It's name has a spin-off air about it.

</comment><comment> d-k irony at its best...

</comment><comment><USER16> That's what you get when a bunch of virgins decide what gets to the front page.</comment>


Log Wizard – Make Your Logs Look Pretty (Windows Only) - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/jtorjo/logwizard/blob/master/src/docs/v1_8.md <comment><USER2> Could you warn that this is unusable on anything but Windows?

<comment><AUTHOR> Updated the title. Thanks!</comment></comment>


Why Silicon Valley Is So Bad at Politics - <AUTHOR> https://newrepublic.com/article/143770/silicon-valley-bad-politics <comment><USER2> The deepest failure of Silicon Valley in politics is it's own.

Facebook and Google want to build 10,000 housing units in mountain view and it gets hung up because (i) people don't want more traffic (easy don't build parking spaces) and (ii) Mountain view doesn't want to bear the burden of building housing for the bay area on it's own (but if they built it in Oakland and drive to Mountain View there will be more traffic.)

On the other hand, Google has been staggering effective at making sure copyright laws don't apply to it. It seems like the only place where it is easier to find any pirate music or video you want than the Pirate Bay is YouTube.

As for supporting the Democrats you've got to realize that the Democrats play the role of the loser in a professional wrestling match. The U.S. political system gravitates to a two party system. If we didn't have the Democrats, we might get a real left-wing party.</comment>


An Adversarial Review of "Adversarial Generation of Natural Language" - <AUTHOR> https://firstname.lastname@example.com/an-adversarial-review-of-adversarial-generation-of-natural-language-409ac3378bd7 <comment><AUTHOR> Yoav's response to general criticism [https://email@example.com/clarifications-re- adversar...](https://email@example.com/clarifications-re-adversarial- review-of-adversarial-learning-of-nat-lang-post-62acd39ebe0d)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Accompanying response by Yann LeCun on FB:

[https://www.facebook.com/yann.lecun/posts/10154498539442143](https://www.facebook.com/yann.lecun/posts/10154498539442143)

<comment><AUTHOR> Yoav's response to Yann [https://firstname.lastname@example.com/a-response-to-yann- lecuns-...](https://email@example.com/a-response-to-yann-lecuns- response-245125295c02)</comment></comment>


Tell HN: Elsevier Stores Passwords in Plaintext - <AUTHOR>

Just did a password reset and got back my original password... it appears they don't read the papers they publish. <comment><USER2> PlainTextOffenders doesn't have it yet, you should submit it. [http://plaintextoffenders.com/submit](http://plaintextoffenders.com/submit)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks, I submitted it.</comment></comment>


Defeating Quantum Algorithms with Hash Functions - <AUTHOR> https://research.kudelskisecurity.com/2017/02/01/defeating-quantum-algorithms-with-hash-functions/ <comment><USER2> > Furthermore, we know what the quantum collision-finding algorithm is > optimal—no faster algorithm can be found.

There's two problems with this:

First, I'm not aware of any proof that Brassard et al.'s algorithm is optimal. Grover's algorithm is optimal, but it is optimal for searching for a _specific_ output value given an _arbitrary_ function. Obviously this optimality doesn't carry over to collision finding because Brassard et al.'s algorithm is superior to a naive use of Grover's for that purpose!

Second, even if Brassard's algorithm is optimal in the usual sense, it would be optimal if given an _arbitrary_ function. Specific weaknesses in specific hash functions could still result in methods that would beat it.

If you could prove it was the best method for finding hash collisions, even against algorithms designed for specific hash functions, you would have to conclude that the best way to break MD5 on a quantum computer is Brassard's algorithm. That would be a big problem, since we already have better classical methods, and classical algorithms transfer trivially to quantum computers (with the same asymptotic properties). Someone's proof would have to be inconsistent, or ZFC would have to be inconsistent or something crazy like that!

<comment><USER3> "First, I'm not aware of any proof that Brassard et al.'s algorithm is optimal."

Also, it's really not clear from this post why you can't play the same kind of parallelization game.

(IE if the underlying thing it provides is a faster way to do x, why can't you parallelize that x in the same way)

Actually, it looks like bernstein points out you can do this, so the author of this post is essentially comparing a crappy technique to a good one, and saying "The good one is better".

It turns out they are the same in the end and it's just cheaper to build normal machines than quantum ones. That seems more reasonable to me than "this technique is slower than the best classical one". It's not. It's just cheaper. That's all.

He also says bernstein brilliantly explains why even better quantum algorithms will never win, but actually, bernstein just conjectures that :)

" there are several obvious ways to combine quantum search with the rho method, but I have not found any such combinations that improve performance, and I conjecture that—in a suitable generic model—no such improvements are possible."

That's a pretty easy conjecture to always make - "i haven't found a way to make this faster, so i conjecture a way to make it faster doesn't exist". These types of conjectures are often very wrong, which is why we have proofs ;)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> While quantum computers are of limited use in inverting a hash function (which remains infeasible for 256-bit hash functions), they would be a tremendous boon for cryptocurrency mining on a Hashcash proof-of-work system, such as the one used in bitcoin. In fact this is an obvious application of Grover's algorithm [1] that can find an input x satisfying a predicate P(x) in time O(sqrt(N)) where N is the domain size of P. The predicate P in this case is just that SHA256(SHA256(x)) < difficulty_target, while N is about 2^70 at the current difficulty level.

This gives a nice speedup, even if the quantum computer cycle time is a million times slower. As a result, mining would centralize to outfits having the most advanced quantum hashing chips.

Of course this ignores the bigger issue bitcoin would have with its signature scheme being completely broken on quantum computers, rendering all exposed public keys unsafe (addresses, being hashes of public keys, remain safe until spent though; hence the recommendation against address re-use).

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover's_algorithm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover's_algorithm)

<comment><USER5> > they would be a tremendous boon for cryptocurrency mining

Only for the miner's short-term self-interest. If quantum computers become practical (e.g. a few states and organisations have one, of sufficient size/speed to beat contemporary classical setups on some problems), then I would imagine a sharp drop in value for any cryptocurrencies whose proof-of- work is vulnerable to known quantum shortcuts.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Is this all still totally hype? Anything close to practical? Wikipedia[1] shows:

       year 2001: factor 15
       year 2011: factor 21
       year 2011: factor 143

At that rate of progress we might be able to factor something useful before we reach the heat death of the universe. But I guess the topic is good for lots of scary headlines.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_computing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_computing)

<comment><USER7> We are a very long way away from having quantum factorization of integers. Quantum computers will be more useful for things like chemistry problems in the near term.

<comment><USER4> Although articles like this

[https://phys.org/news/2017-02-blueprint-unveiled-large- scale...](https://phys.org/news/2017-02-blueprint-unveiled-large-scale- quantum.html)

make it seem we're getting much closer...

<comment><USER7> It will be physics papers demonstrating stability that should get your hopes up, not signal delivery "blueprints", unfortunately.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> shameless plug, a 4 parts blog series on hash-based signatures: [http://cryptologie.net/article/306/hash-based-signatures- par...](http://cryptologie.net/article/306/hash-based-signatures-part-i-one- time-signatures-ots/)</comment>


A Solar Power Plant designed to deliver 100% of the electricity after sunset - <AUTHOR> https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2019/10/08/the-sun-shines-only-at-night/ <comment><USER2> For those not reading the article, it's battery storage. Specifically "Samsung SDI batteries". This is a great use case to see how well grid-scale battery storage will perform at the point of power generation in comparison to things like pumped water or thermal.

<comment><USER3> How do those batteries fare in terms of capacity loss over time ? My li-ion rechargeable sanyo eneloops AAA batteries seem useless after a couple of years.

<comment><USER4> It depends on the depth of discharge and heat management.

Laptops, phones, etc have a poor lifespan because they are frequently discharged from 100% to almost 0%. It is better to discharge them from 100% to 50% and then recharge.

Batteries generate heat during charging and smart phones can get hot during heavy use. Without good enough cooling the lifespan of the battery drops.

<comment><USER5> Usually the best case scenario is 80 - 20 as far as I know.

<comment><USER6> I've heard the opposite! Any piece of information that you can share to back it up? Highly interested.

<comment><USER5> Sorry I have studied this in other language and I not even sure how these things called in English. There is one graph that I remember called Woehler curve and there is another one that shows how much is the life expectancy operating between different charging levels (which I cannot find the name for).

[https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Woehler-curve-for- lithiu...](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Woehler-curve-for-lithium-ion- battery_fig2_275258416)

Update:

It is called SN curve:

[https://www.researchgate.net/figure/SN-curve-applied-to- batt...](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/SN-curve-applied-to-battery- lifetime-estimation-Number-of-cycles-in-function-of-depth-of_fig7_249322820)

It shows a bit different picture for Li-ION that I remembered.

<comment><USER7> The reading I did years ago stressed that you should definitely cycle batteries to as close as Zero as possible, but if you want to do long-term storage keep them at 40%. Seems like there is a lot of myth around how batteries work and proper practice. A unified resource on this would be great!

<comment><USER8> Depends on the battery chemistry. NiCd and NiMh batteries which were very popular 10+ years ago do have a memory effect: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_effect)

LiPo batteries do not have a memory effect, and you should avoid deep discharges.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I'm not a huge fan of the format of the article, but I _am_ a huge fan of a solar plant that has sufficient storage (and mindset) to provide power when the sun isn't shining. The more like this, the better, imo.

<comment><USER10> It might be more robust, cheaper and lighter on resources to just build a global electricity network, so there's always daylight powering the grid somewhere. Although for small, remote islands, batteries are probably a reasonable alternative.

<comment><USER11> The Pacific Ocean is pretty vast. When it's noon in Hawaii, there's not a lot of land area condusive to solar generation.

A global grid would be an immense coordination problem with tremendous costs. Some form of storage local to each grid is likely to be more cost effective. There are so many storage options, something should be appropriate as the need becomes real: pumped hydro / other mechanical, battery, synthgas (maybe), heat, pressure.

<comment><USER12> We have gone at most 580km/360mi with an undersea cable 95.8% efficient, €600m, 700 MW capacity [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NorNed](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NorNed)

Repeat that cable 9.6 times over 3,459 miles from London to New York would be 66% efficient and cost €5.8b.

If energy is $0.05/kwh in London and you can sell it around the retail rate of $0.12/kwh in New York, your cable will make around $20k/hour ($0.028/kwh,after cable losses). Your cable will pay for itself after 33 years of complete capacity saturation.

With free energy at one side and retail prices on the other, the payoff time narrows to less than 8 years.

This calculation leaves out so much but it was a fun thought experiment.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Note that the cost per MWh is less than most fossil generation, and far less than the cheapest nuclear (per Lazard's most recent LCOE analysis).

It's clear that solar and battery storage can now provide affordable base load power, and can be deployed rapidly (this project is set to turn up in 2022).

[https://www.lazard.com/perspective/levelized-cost-of- energy-...](https://www.lazard.com/perspective/levelized-cost-of-energy-and- levelized-cost-of-storage-2018/)

<comment><USER14> LCOE is a poor measure of whether something can deliver baseload power cost effectively because it assumes all MWh are created equal.

What would make it clear whether solar + battery at this proportion is a viable source of baseload power is output volatility figures for a few years of operation (though one year would probably give a reasonable indication).

Tangent: The industry has a metric, availability factor, to describe what proportion of the time a plant can supply energy - but conventionally it only considers maintenance-related downtime and ignores periods where no energy is produced because of lack of 'fuel', giving figures of 99 and 100% availability for wind and solar respectively. That needs to change if we're going to measure whether renewables can provide suitable baseload power. The alternative, capacity factor, doesn't ignore periods of no generation in the same way, but it penalises dispatchable sources for having excess capacity so it's not great either.

<comment><USER15> Most power plants we use today can't deliver baseload cost effectively if you add in the externalized costs of climate change.

<comment><USER16> >Most power plants we use today can't deliver baseload cost effectively if you add in the externalized costs of climate change.

Like it or not tacking on the cost of climate change to power generation is so far from current reality that adding that hypothetical constraint is meaningless. The people making these decisions have real tangible costs that matter right now that they will prioritize in their comparison.

<comment><USER17> I'm not so sure about this. I wouldn't be surprised to see European countries introducing carbon taxes soon.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Here's the vendor datasheet for the batteries: [https://www.samsungsdi.com/upload/ess_brochure/201902_Samsun...](https://www.samsungsdi.com/upload/ess_brochure/201902_Samsung%20SDI%20ESS_EN.pdf)

It doesn't say the specific chemistry but it shows a chart estimating 6000 100% charge/discharge cycles at 1C until it hits 80% capacity.

So for this system that'd be 16 years of full cycles till it wore down to being "only" a 240MWh system.

In reality they'll probably cycle it less aggressively than that (95/5 or 90/10) to meet the expected 25 year lifetime of the overall system.

</comment><comment><USER19> I'd just like to point out that there are solar plants that can generate power after sunset too. Solar thermal plants can store their heated working fluid in an insulated container and use that to power their heat engines later on.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentrated_solar_power#CSP_w...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentrated_solar_power#CSP_with_thermal_energy_storage)

<comment><USER20> CSP is no longer cost-competitive with PV for raw energy cost because it relies on the same steam turbines that coal and nuclear stations use. PV is now cheaper than those turbines in much of the world—in some cases, so much so that even with batteries, it can beat CSP.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Layman Science Wizard recently explained to me that pumping water up into a storage tower (using solar-based energy) and then using the gravity-drop to generate electricity again (when the sun is gone) was also very effective. A natural battery of sorts. No batteries to wear out, neither. Feasible?

</comment><comment><USER21> Just to point out a subtle distinction I hadn't caught reading the headline: the station is designed to only deliver its power at night. That's the 100% in the headline. The battery storage apparently lasts 7 hours, so there's still a good five hours of the average night not served by the plant.

</comment><comment><USER15> Great. Let's build a million of them.

</comment><comment><USER22> > Engie says that the Samsung SDI batteries which it has chosen for the energy > storage solution will be able to deliver electricity for up to seven hours

For anyone who whats to know what SDI stands for it is "Samsung Display Interface".

[https://community.cadence.com/cadence_blogs_8/b/breakfast- by...](https://community.cadence.com/cadence_blogs_8/b/breakfast- bytes/posts/samsung-battery)</comment>


Debian Diversity Statement accepted - <AUTHOR> http://mid.gmane.org/%3C20120603211849.GA14010%40roeckx.be%3E

<comment><USER2> For those that might be confused, the actual vote page is <http://www.debian.org/vote/2012/vote_002> and goes into detail about what is being voted on.

I don't think Debian has a problem with diversity; as an example, the Debian Women group has been around since 2004: <http://women.debian.org/home/> Maybe this is more about getting non-programmer/sysadmin types involved in Debian. (There's an interesting interview with the proposer, Francesca Ciceri, here: [http://raphaelhertzog.com/2012/04/06/people-behind-debian- fr...](http://raphaelhertzog.com/2012/04/06/people-behind-debian-francesca- ciceri-member-of-debian-press-publicity-teams/))

<comment><USER3> If you care about the discussion that occurred before a voet was proposed, it took place at <http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2012/03/msg00048.html>

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> quote:

The Debian Project welcomes and encourages participation by everyone.

No matter how you identify yourself or how others perceive you: we welcome you. We welcome contributions from everyone as long as they interact constructively with our community.

While much of the work for our project is technical in nature, we value and encourage contributions from those with expertise in other areas, and welcome them into our community.

<comment><USER4> At some point these things become so broad that they exclude any non-technical discussion. If Debian welcomes everybody, they also welcome white supremacists, nazis, murderers, hippies, polygamists, and other groups which the West views as undesirable.

Under a literal interpretation of their statement, I can make practically any statement and any ostracization would violate their listed principles. What if I say I engage in sending 1000 spam emails to the Debian list every day, and that I believe this will make God happy with me? Debian will be contradicting their statement if they do violence to my spam messages, because they will not be respectful of my religion.

Here's a less disruptive scenario in terms of the ability for the list to function: What if I believe it is my religious responsiblity to broadcast the message "God Hates Fags" to the Debian list, as the WBC in the US believes it is their religious responsibility to broadcast this message to the US populous via street protests? Debian would contradict their statement if any ostracization occurred on their list, if my messages were banned, if I were asked to change my sig, or if any other direct negative consequence was perpetrated or assisted by a Debian developer because of my post.

If Hans Reiser ever writes a Debian list, I expect him to be treated like any other contributor based on that statement.

What is this supposed to mean or solve? I don't really get it. If the intention is to stop any politically incorrect speech, a literal reading of that statement surely does not do so. Why do we want to stop all politically incorrect speech in the first place?

EDIT: Note, this has been edited. Some upvoters may have upvoted when less incendiary language was in use.

<comment><USER3> What part of "We welcome contributions from everyone as long as they interact constructively with our community" did you miss?

<comment><USER4> And who determines what represents a constructive interaction? Is it something that upsets people? If so, doesn't that mean that Debian does _not_ respect religious or ideological beliefs that are interpreted as threatening by the mainstream WASP (as Debian is mainly comprised of WASP contributors)? If so, what was the point of this statement, again?

<comment><USER3> I believe the point is well-expressed at <http://lists.debian.org/debian- project/2012/03/msg00061.html>

"You can't have an open and welcoming environment if you're open to people who work to make the environment non-welcoming to others. It is, like most things in life, a balance.

There's an old saying: the problem with an open mind is that people throw all kinds of crap into it. Neither one's mind nor one's community should be _too_ open. Inclusivity does mean telling people who are not willing to allow others to be included that they should find a different project to be part of.

The point of a diversity statement is not to accept all behavior of any kind. It's to make a positive statement about what sort of behavior we're actively seeking out and want to align ourselves with."

<comment><USER4> And the given diversity statement certainly does not reflect any meaningful definition of the "sort of behavior [Debian] is actively seeking out".

Do you not see the contradiction in the message you quoted?

>Inclusivity does mean telling people who are not willing to allow others to be included [to leave].

This is self-contradictory unless there is no party that is "not willing to allow others to be included". You necessarily exclude someone. Is the line then, "We allow anyone who is not actively trying to get us to disallow someone else?" And if so, wouldn't that make anyone pointing out WBC-esque signatures an excluder who would have to be excluded to remain ideologically sound? What about people who are not specifically trying to exclude people? What if they say saying "God is OK with [group I dislike] contributing to Debian, but that group is still evil"? Is this tantamount to exclusion because it makes the individual feel ostracized, and if so, how do we tell when a statement is sufficiently likely to cause a feeling of ostracization in a person such that we have to stop it?

What about divisive political issues? Surely there are Debian contributors who oppose gay marriage on primarily religious grounds and surely there are Debian contributors who support it. Wouldn't any advocacy of either position be "non- welcoming" to some significant and contributory group? Isn't saying, "Yeah, but people who [oppose|support] gay marriage are not worth my energy anyway" exclusive?

The statement is so broad that it means nothing.

<comment><USER3> > the given diversity statement certainly does not reflect any meaningful > definition of the "sort of behavior [Debian] is actively seeking out".

Sure it does. The project seeks behavior that welcomes others. You might even say that Debian is encouraging Ubuntu [0] from its contributors. :-)

[0] which as a philosophy has been summarized as "humanity towards others", and as a linux distribution has a code of conduct that asks members to "Be respectful. The Ubuntu community and its members treat one another with respect. Everyone can make a valuable contribution to Ubuntu. We may not always agree, but disagreement is no excuse for poor behaviour and poor manners. We might all experience some frustration now and then, but we cannot allow that frustration to turn into a personal attack. It's important to remember that a community where people feel uncomfortable or threatened is not a productive one. We expect members of the Ubuntu community to be respectful when dealing with other contributors as well as with people outside the Ubuntu project and with users of Ubuntu." - <http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about- ubuntu/conduct>

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I wonder if Debian is the only Linux distro prominently named after a woman. The 'Deb' is from Debrah Lynn, Debian's founder's girlfriend (and Ian from the founder, Ian Murdock).

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian#1993.E2.80.931998>

</comment><comment><USER3> From the FAQ:

Q: What is a diversity statement?

A: A diversity statement is a document expliciting something really important: that everyone (regardless of whatever thing people may usually be discriminated for) is welcome to join our project.

Q: Which will be the consequences of adopting it?

A: A diversity statement is _not_ a Code of Conduct. We are not adding new rules. As Russ Allbery said [4]: "It's a statement of ideals. Statements of ideals don't generally change things in the way that, oh, code or even enforced policies change things. The influence is at best subtle. But I think statements of ideals are useful things to have because they help people think about ideals, and remember that the ideals are important, and that we can all do something to live up to those ideals. And that that can be as significant of an action as fixing a technical bug."

Q: What about hateful ideologies? Do we welcome them as well?

A: Here the relevant bit is: "We welcome contributions from everyone as long as they interact constructively with our community". In addition, let me borrow again some words from Russ [5]: "The point of a diversity statement is not to accept all behavior of any kind. It's to make a positive statement about what sort of behavior we're actively seeking out and want to align".

[4] <http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2012/03/msg00060.html>

[5] <http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2012/03/msg00061.html>

</comment><comment><USER6> What exactly was the motivation for this?

Was there actually a problem?

<comment><USER7> There does not need to be a problem, it can be a good idea for a person or a project to express their ideals and values anyway.

That said, Debian has very few female developers (1-2%?), and is generally skewed towards white, ethnically European males who are sysadmins or programmers and who mainly work on packaging software. See for example the group photos from the yearly Debian conference (debconf.org).

There's room for a lot more diversity: various genders; ethnic backgrounds; technical interests and skills; lingistic, social and cultural backgrounds; personalities; etc. There is fairly little overt rejection of those who are different from the majority of Debian developers, but there is definitely some inadvertent systemic preference to recruit more of the same.

I don't know about recent intentional pressure to exclude those who divert from the traditional mainstream: I am a privileged white European male, I would not even notice if someone else does not feel welcome for whatever reason. I would like to notice, and I would like everyone to be welcome.

The diversity statement is one step in making sure Debian is welcoming, and becomes more welcoming in the future. It doesn't make any active changes, but it changes the mindset of the members of Debian.

These issues are not, of course, in any way restricted to Debian. Free software development in general suffers from them.

(Disclaimer: I am a Debian developer since 1996. I am a supporter of the Debian-Women project. I am biased.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Related: [http://www.osnews.com/story/26005/Women_in_IT_don_t_need_spe...](http://www.osnews.com/story/26005/Women_in_IT_don_t_need_special_treatment)</comment>


Ask HN: Domain Dispute - <AUTHOR> I have a domain since 2005 with solid plans to use for a venture. But, like most of us, we have day jobs, families, and many ideas; not just one.
Suddenly, one loan shark registered `${name}capital.com` domain, the `${name} Capital` trademark, and, also, the pretty broad term of `${name}` as a trademark as well, and I missed the deadline to appeal the trademark as, obviously, I don't actively monitor the USPTO publishing, nor I pay dearly for trademark monitoring services and the like.
Before applying for the trademark, he asked me if I have the domain for sale, but I did not reply. He later texted me asking if I'd take $200 bucks for it, and I replied that I have plans for the domain.
Today, he's sending threats that he'll file a UDRP against me.
Can you, please, advice?
Edit: The trademark is registered for financial services and I have no plans to use the domain for that.
Edit 2: According to the responses so far, the advice is: Don't buy any domain you're not having a trademark on. And I can't agree with it! We all have many domains we want to use for future ventures. <comment><USER2> The domain in question is sitting unused for past 11 years. Although, trademark is recent and you are holding the domain from very long time law should favour you. But because it is just sitting there without any use will make things complicated.

What I can understand from the facts you posted is they made a fair offer. They are is need of domain name and you are not using it at all. 11 years is a very long time and you are, willingly or unwillingly, blocking it for others. It will be good you not take this this to court and negotiate on a fair price.

Another alternative is, register the trademark in another category. In my country, there are 40 trademark categories. So making registration in any valid category should give you shield to protect the name.

<comment><USER3> Do you know of any cases where a person was using a domain and someone grabbed the trademark and tried to take the domain?

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> 1) If he's only willing to offer $200 I'd seriously doubt he'd lawyer up. Any rational person would offer the lawyer/time cost first if they were serious to try and avoid it.

2) Could you transfer the name to another holder/company if they apply? According to ICANN " disputes must be resolved by agreement, court action, or arbitration before a registrar will cancel, suspend, or transfer a domain name." If they lodge a complaint sell it to a friend/company structure for $1 and suddenly they are chasing the wrong person. You can tell them you dont own it and to stop harassing you. Rinse, repeat.

3) u/ankitaggarwal had what seemed the good suggestion of registering a trademark in another category.

4) Tell him your price. Consider a new domain/name if price is met.

</comment><comment><USER5> It is possible to win a UDRP case but I don't know if it's worth it. The following cases come to mind:

[http://domainnamewire.com/2007/02/07/mgm-loses-bid-for- warga...](http://domainnamewire.com/2007/02/07/mgm-loses-bid-for-wargamescom/)

[http://www.finnegan.com/publications/updatenewsletters/pubde...](http://www.finnegan.com/publications/updatenewsletters/pubdetail.aspx?pub=08588bc7-bcdf-4512-a443-9885be95eabd)

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, it is possible, but the above are slightly different cases. And, yes, it's not going to be easy, but should we let the crooks win? Because this is not about somebody liking a domain name and willing to buy it - this is about someone liking the name and feeling entitled to get it for free. I am surprised that now two hackers are advising just to give up.

<comment><USER6> See it the other way round. It costs him $1.5k plus lawyers' fees to bring it to court, and the burden of proof is on him to prove you registered it in bad faith or are using it in a manner likely to benefit from confusion with his trademark. He probably wouldn't win even against a letter drafted by you that simply states that you registered the domain prior on $DATE prior to his registering the trademark, your development plans for the domain involve are in $INDUSTRY and there is no realistic expectation of confusion with his newly registered service mark. So you can probably interpret the threat as a bluff, and if he actually did follow through with it, it would cost him a lot more than the $200 he's offered so far.

That said there's probably little reason for you to turn down a less insubstantial offer for a name which generates you no revenue and presumably isn't integral to your development idea if you ever choose to pursue it.

I'd have thought that calling his bluff was the right response, along the lines of "I registered the domain X years prior to your decision to adopt a variant of that name for your own purposes. My development plans for this domain in $industry do not involve financial services in any way and thus no possibility of confusion with your financial services firm exists. Any move on your part to pursue this via UDRP would therefore almost certainly be a waste of your money and time. I have invested my own money and time in the domain and my development project for it, and have no intention of changing my business plans unless it is financially worthwhile for me to do so."

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Setup a site on the domain name and start using it (static site, some content, a contact detail, explanation of the service you're providing that doesn't relate to financial institution). Sit back and watch this guys head explode.

If it's not confusing with whatever service he's got you should be safe but IANAL.

Finally I rarely worry when someone threatens me. Serious people don't threaten - they act.

</comment><comment><USER8> You'll have to talk to a lawyer for legal advice; You could do it preemptively or just wait. To properly pursue a UDRP they'll have to file a complaint in court, at which point you'll need a lawyer anyhow.

Personal opinion - is it really worth the hassle? You've not launched anything in 11 years, why not just set a fair price and re-brand your un-launched venture?

<comment><AUTHOR> What this guy does is not right. Yes, we can let crooks and sharks get what they want, but should we?

This is a daylight robbery. A trademark != domain name. You know the Dove trademark being used for both confectionery, and cosmetics, and there's no confusion in the marketplace even with such widely popular brand - how can there be an issue with som awkward loan shark company?

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> You might want to post on NamePros or WebHostingTalk — there are many more experts there who deal with this kind of stuff and see it every day.

[https://www.namepros.com/](https://www.namepros.com/)

[https://www.webhostingtalk.com/](https://www.webhostingtalk.com/)

</comment><comment><USER10> IANAL, but it sounds like his case would be very weak. You clearly had the domain name before he filed for the trademark, you have not been actively trying to extort money from the trademark owner (you've not responded to his requests to buy it), and you're not trying to export customer confusion to his name.

If you really care about this, hire a lawyer.

If you care a little bit, but not enough to pay someone, then it would make sense to put something on the site to make it clear that you're using the domain name for something productive that is non-competitive with the trademark registration. As you correctly point out, trademarks are for business domains (or geographic domains, but that seems really quaint these days, right?) so a legit use outside his trademark domain would mean his complaint was null and void.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> On a side note: I talked to ICANN and, to my surprise, they really answer the phone now, and try to provide help. A couple of years ago I reported a domain registrar that didn't offer any mean to pay for a domain renewal, and they told me that they don't deal with customer support issues.

</comment><comment><USER3> You got me thinking. I have owned a website name since 2003, and I put up a website a couple years back. So I have been actively using the name.

I just checked and someone registered the trademark in May 2016 for `${name}` since I own the .com I am wondering what sort of issues I will get into.

It seems there is a board you can petition to have a trademark cancelled. I wonder under what circumstances a trademark would be cancelled.

[http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks-application- process/appealin...](http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks-application- process/appealing-trademark-decisions/trademark-trial-and-appeal-board-ttab)

</comment><comment><USER11> OP: the guy who is trying to take your domain name needs to eat a bag of dicks. I could, maybe, see him having a valid case if the trademark predated your domain name but given the chain of events you related, I have no sympathy for him.

People need to realize that having a trademark isn't a license to fuck people over.

</comment><comment><USER12> If you're not using it, I think you should sell it to him. It will be easier on both of you.

You probably don't want to go through the hassle of a legal fight, and if he's correctly advised, neither does he (especially since he has a nontrivial chance of losing).

</comment><comment><USER13> Just setup a wordpress blog and fill it with aggregated data remotely related to the domain name. Since you've had it from before, you have the upper hand.

Read about Nissan's domain name. If a company that powerful couldn't get their hands on it, you shouldn't be worried.

</comment><comment><USER14> I don't understand why you want to keep it...if you haven't used it for 11 years are you realistically ever going to? Sounds like you should just sell it to be honest and avoid the hassle.

</comment><comment><USER15> Wot? Is the SOS emoji a new precedent for HN? Any question where you are in trouble to be marked as SOS?

<comment><AUTHOR> I am not the first one using them, but they help grab the attention. I'm sure they will be filtered out pretty soon!

<comment><USER16> We've removed it from this title.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Maybe do something with it immediately? Something totally unrelated to the trademark owner's business.

I think if you do some research on this i.e. read some UDRP decisions you may find that if you have it parked and it's showing ads that relate to the trademark owner's business then you may be at risk of losing in UDRP. But I could be wrong.

</comment><comment><USER18> #1 Do not entertain any offer. Flatly refuse or just don't reply.

Entertaining an offer can have consequences...just don't.

#2 Put up a simple page "Coming soon" that is clearly nothing to do with financial services...put up a blog...</comment>


Show HN: TwLng – Buffer for content - <AUTHOR> http://www.twlng.com <comment><AUTHOR> TwLng is Buffer for Content with six main features:

1\. Post content to Twitter that is longer than 140 characters 2\. Add content to a queue for posting later. 3\. Add content to a 'circle' for posting later. 4\. Schedule post times using a calendar. 5\. Follow users / favorite tweets based on a query from a calendar view. 6\. Save drafts.

A circle is a queue where items are not popped - when the pointer reaches the end of the queue, it is reset back to the first element.</comment>


Do you like the website? - <AUTHOR> http://www.shakebee.me/

<comment><USER2> Nice website but doesn't explain how the product works very well. I'm still not exactly sure. I understand it has something to do with shaking but not sure how the messages are actually created. Seems like a nice idea though.</comment>


Popular Django Apps from DjangoCon 2010 - <AUTHOR> http://jeffammons.net/2010/09/popular-django-apps-at-djangocon-2010/

<comment><USER2> And a few days ago I've found this on Reddit: <http://djangopackages.com/>

</comment><comment><USER3> Great list Jeff. Thanks for putting it together.</comment>


Ask HN: Do you know other regional startup maps like this one? - <AUTHOR> http://withlove.sk/

<comment><USER2> I've listed 25 start-up maps that I know about here. I'm sure there are many others.

[http://googlemapsmania.blogspot.com/2014/03/25-start-up- maps...](http://googlemapsmania.blogspot.com/2014/03/25-start-up-maps-from- around-globe.html)

</comment><comment><USER3> BDNT has probably the closest replica of this map. It is for the front range of Colorado, USA:

[http://bdnt.org/](http://bdnt.org/)

</comment><comment><USER4> Montreal

[http://ohmtl.com/#map](http://ohmtl.com/#map)

</comment><comment><USER5> [http://mumbaimade.net/](http://mumbaimade.net/)</comment>


Collecting Unrecognizable Beings from the Stratosphere - <AUTHOR> http://nautil.us/blog/this-astrobiologist-is-collecting-unrecognizable-beings-from-the-stratosphere <comment><USER2> Noted crank [1] [2] [3] who is associated with noted crank Chandra Wickramasinghe [4] continues to act like a crank.

Dust and tiny micro-organisms are found in the Strat. This is not news.

[1] [http://www.skeptical-science.com/tag/milton- wainwright/](http://www.skeptical-science.com/tag/milton-wainwright/)

[2] [http://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2013/09/20/debunked...](http://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2013/09/20/debunked_aliens_in_earths_atmosphere_106681.html)

[3] [http://news.discovery.com/space/alien-life- exoplanets/invasi...](http://news.discovery.com/space/alien-life- exoplanets/invasion-of-the-high-altitude-alien-130920.htm)

[4] [http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/09/20/et_claim...](http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/09/20/et_claims_of_alien_life_in_earth_s_atmosphere_are_unfounded.html)

</comment><comment><USER3> Pictures begin here in the video: [https://youtu.be/cpXVVuFgYqA?t=1820](https://youtu.be/cpXVVuFgYqA?t=1820)

Here's "the famous one," showing a titanium ball with carbon and oxygen contents spilling out from impact: [https://youtu.be/cpXVVuFgYqA?t=2297](https://youtu.be/cpXVVuFgYqA?t=2297)

And the "snail particle," which is stuck to a crystal of sodium chloride: [https://youtu.be/cpXVVuFgYqA?t=2359](https://youtu.be/cpXVVuFgYqA?t=2359) "This is comin' in from somewhere, and it ain't comin' up from Salt Lake City."

</comment><comment><USER4> He shows the images he got in the video at 30:40.

The most sensible explanation is that in each launch they got hundreds of carbon dust dots, and he cherrypicked the most symmetrical and biological like, and then proclaim that they are "biological entity"s.

Some back of the envelope calculations: Let's guess that they have a team of 5 members, and each one looks at the microscope one day each week for 8 hours, and to select and focus a dot they need 1 minute. If they do this for a year they'd get 60x8x5x52 = 1 million samples.

The problem is how to design a control group. Perhaps someone can look at 1 million sand grains and find the more interesting. (This looks like an interesting blog post.) The chemical composition is very different, and the size is very different, but I guess it can test the human filter part.

(Bonus points: Repeat this 1 million of grains of other materials. Salt grains a too cubic to look organic. Soot particles seams more interesting and can be a possible contamination. How does flour looks under a microscope?)

</comment><comment><USER5> Neat, but I wish he had explicitly stated that he controlled for kit contamination. It doesn't sound like he did. Perhaps the collectors had bacteria on then when they went up, then the combination of low pressure and UV light made them look weird, and voilà: "alien" microbes. Claiming that you work in a clean room and are careful isn't enough, you have to have negative controls.

<comment><USER5> Correction: according to the actual paper they did do a control flight, though it was separate from the experimental flights. This makes it somewhat more interesting though it would have been better if it was done simultaneously in the same device.

<comment><USER6> I would like to know the reasoning behind the hypothesis that earth based life can't reach into the stratosphere?

<comment><USER7> Watch the video. He explains that exact question in great detail.

<comment><USER8> Although he forgot about satellite and launch vehicle contamination bringing particles into orbit.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> It's Wainwright time again? Well, here is a debunk, in German

[http://scienceblogs.de/astrodicticum- simplex/2013/09/21/lebe...](http://scienceblogs.de/astrodicticum- simplex/2013/09/21/leben-im-all-entdeckt-nein/?all=1)

Key points:

* link to known cranks Chandra Wickramasinghe and Fred Hoyle

* publishes in shady magazines

* specimen is too similar to other life forms on earth

* just because we don't know how they got up there means they come from outer space

</comment><comment><USER10> In Crichton's _The Andromeda Strain_ [1], we collect something from (sub?)orbit and it does not end well.

[1] www.michaelcrichton.com/the-andromeda-strain/

</comment><comment><USER11> If this life is DNA based they just need a PCR (+) and sequencing, to see if it is from Earth. Does anyone have a link that discuss if they tried that? (Edit: Listening to the interview, sigh.)

(+) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymerase_chain_reaction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymerase_chain_reaction)

<comment><USER12> Yeah, in one of his papers [1] they did a DAPI stain and said it was positive for DNA. They really need to do sequencing. It's cheap enough to do sequencing of microbes now that some lab could simply offer to do it without funding.

Ignoring the idea of "alien life", whatever they find out would be interesting. Craig Venter sequenced the ocean, Wainwright should do the stratosphere.

[1] [http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/21672857.2015.10...](http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/21672857.2015.1087751)

<comment><USER13> "We've done tests and it's human, and apparently...our lab technician."

Wasn't there a case of a lady being implicated in thousands of crimes based on DNA evidence because of contaminating the samples she was working with?

<comment><USER12> There's a lot of stories like that caused by sloppiness. If you blast ([https://blast.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Blast.cgi?PAGE_TYPE=BlastSear...](https://blast.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Blast.cgi?PAGE_TYPE=BlastSearch)) the sequence of essentially every organism with a sequenced genome, you'll find long stretches of the human genome.

Even worse are the genomes coming out of one specific lab... there are always stretches of the Chlamydia genome. I wonder if that tech knows?</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: How to start learning React and React native? - <AUTHOR> I am a novice developer. I am currently learning Javascript from Udemy. I want to learn React and React Native to get a job in these technologies. So can anyone guide me about some courses or walkthrough about how to become a Reactjs and React Native Developer??<p>Thanks. <comment><USER2> Learn React from Udemy?</comment>


An explanation of the CSS animation on Apple's iPhone 4S webpage - <AUTHOR> http://johnbhall.com/iphone-4s/

<comment><USER2> It looks like this is an oversimplification. The graphics and text are doing stuff independently of each other -- this illustrates that the graphics and text are moving together, and they're not.

I would be curious to see how that -- the graphics and text moving independently -- really works.

<comment><USER3> Of the five sentences on the page, the "oversimplification" aspect is specifically mentioned by one of them. "In the real version, the caption for each slide animates separately and the site degrades well in older browsers."

<comment><USER4> Not just the caption though - the images too are on separate tiles. Watch carefully, they don't all rotate about the same axis or at the same time.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> A bit off topic - I find it surprising that the animations don't work in IE9. I'd've thought that the Microsoft user base is one Apple wants to get buying Apple products, and the iPhone is a good entry point.

<comment><USER6> It's really not Apple's fault that this animation won't work in IE until IE 10.

<comment><USER7> You missed OP's point. He is not bashing IE9 for not being able to run this animations and then blaming Apple for that.

He is wondering why Apple didn't make the animations with something that would also work on IE9 considering that that are the users they want to get.

<comment><USER6> Spoilers:

~ IE 9 users don't get a broken box that says "upgrade to Safari to see the animation".

~ They get an animation that's supported in IE 9.

~ When they get IE 10 they will probably see the slightly cooler one that Firefox/Chrome/Safari can see because they support it today.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Are you explaining how it could be done in a simpler and less compatible way? Why do you just explain how they've done it.</comment>


Stephen Colbert at RSA Conference 2014 – Full Audio - <AUTHOR> http://blog.austinheap.com/stephen-colbert-rsa-conference-2014-full-audio <comment><USER2> Very funny and I'm impressed at the number of in-jokes, he must have really taken some time to get acquainted with security culture. His joke about "exchanging private keys" was hilarious.

Also here is an abbreviated video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsaXEKtLehs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsaXEKtLehs)

<comment><USER3> Protip: have a writing staff.

<comment><USER4> Having a writing staff may get you part way there. Colbert is really smart and equally thoughtful and passionate, and I think these are the qualities that lead to his work never appearing "phoned in."

[disclosure, I guess: I once interned at The Daily Show and absolutely loved my experience, so I'm probably biased toward Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert]

<comment><USER5> Now that we've got you here, prepare for my one question AYA (ask you anything).

So Colbert has tried several times in the past to run as a presidential candidate, etc. What is your take on this, knowing him? How serious are these attempts, if he was to gain traction? In the alternate universe where all voters were college kids that actually voted, and he won, what do you think would actually happen?

<comment><USER6> He wasn't really trying before. It was a joke. To me activities like the RSA speaking are political activities. And they do not simply represent Colbert's personal views. This is probably the extreme edge of the leftish faction that still has influence and is connected to power. It is extremely critical of existing power and yet stays within "mainstream" parameters. If that group can see a realistic path towards political office that would provide more influence than the TV show and is likely to succeed in Colbert's person then he will be encouraged and quite possibly actually pursue a political office. That's my outsiders guesstimate of this.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Despite the "rivalry" between me and Colbert for the title "Greatest Living American". I have a lot of respect for Colbert. He is an entertainer but he is a political activist. John Stewart who is more famous and better paid is a Comedian Journalist, but Colbert is a Activist Comedian.

Colbert is the kind of critical thinker we need more of in politics.

-Brandon Wirtz (Former Greatest Living American)

[http://blog.sfgate.com/techchron/2007/05/11/the-greatest- goo...](http://blog.sfgate.com/techchron/2007/05/11/the-greatest-googled- american/)

</comment><comment><USER8> "We have solid proof that this program has saved zero lives, that's more then I can say for our drone program" lmao

</comment><comment><USER9> I was disappointed to see so little support for Edward Snowden by the crowd.

Colbert's view is that Snowden is a criminal.

<comment><USER10> Stephen Colbert plays a character that satirizes conservative jingoistic "patriotic" mouthpieces of the Republican party, the kind typically found on Fox News and some talk radio stations.

<comment><USER11> With that said, the fact that he rips NSA doesn't mean he (or his alter ego) supports Snowden: [http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57619771-83/colbert- turns-h...](http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57619771-83/colbert-turns-his- funny-gun-on-snowden-in-rsa-keynote/)

<comment><USER12> Ah, yes. Satire may survive dictators in totalitarian regimes intact, but it perishes in the webpages of CNET News.

<comment><USER11> I assume that means you didn't actually read to the end where the Q&A was discussed...

<comment><USER12> He was still in character as any Colbert viewer could tell by his responses.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> The link to the HD version should be: [http://www.austinheap.com/assets/rsaconf2014/Stephen%20Colbe...](http://www.austinheap.com/assets/rsaconf2014/Stephen%20Colbert%20%40%20RSA%20Conference%202014%20%28Full%20Audio%29%20%5BHD%5D.mp3)

<comment><USER14> Well, yeah... but the difference between 320kbps and 96kbps is fairly negligible with all of that background noise.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Video (phonecam, no Q&A):

P1: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7gGtVScrQo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7gGtVScrQo)

P2: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3QH4d4qNOQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3QH4d4qNOQ)

</comment><comment><USER16> You've got to credit these guys for going the extra mile to keep you from finding out what their conference is about. Between this site and the conference website it links to, they use the acronym "RSA" twenty six times without ever once defining it.

Note that googling "RSA" gives a dozen contradictory definitions, from various things that call themselves the RSA. The conference here makes the list about halfway down, but again, without any explanation what the acronym stands for or what it is.

And of course, wikipedia just gives a two page list of RSAs for one to choose from:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA)

<comment><USER17> RSA is named after its founders: Ron Rivest, Adi Shamir, and Len Adleman.

<comment><USER18> Probably more accurate to say the company was named after the RSA algorithm that was named after its inventors.

<comment><USER19> It was founded by the inventors.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Apple Inc. Patent #9059950 "Delivering and tracking viral invitational content" [pdf] - <AUTHOR> http://www.freepatentsonline.com/9059950.pdf

<comment><USER2> Wow, what an innovation. Putting unique IDs in an invite and keeping track of them in a database. It's hard to get more novel than that, isn't it?

Thank God they filed a patent. Now future generations will know this technique.</comment>


RISC-V port accepted for inclusion in GCC - <AUTHOR> https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2017-01/msg00148.html <comment><USER2> Given the momentum of Coreboot and Libreboot for having completely "free and open" architecture, how many years away are we from having commercial laptops available using RISC-V processors?

<comment><USER3> Probably many: the processor has to be made by millions (per model, not in total) to become reasonably priced, and it will still be slower and/or hotter than an offering from Intel who have spend untold man-years honing their architecture. Think Talos and IBM Power8, IBM being a serious force behind the Power architecture, with companies like Google among its customers.

RISC-V should have a key advantage and exploit it. IDK if the advantage of openness would be key for general-purpose laptops. Special laptops would probably be available but pricey; compare to other niche laptops, like highly- protected ones.

<comment><USER4> It's completely unreasonable to expect some underdog architecture to get anywhere close to the big ones, which have pured dozens of billions of dollars into research over _decades_ to optimize their designs, tooling and fabrication.

A reasonable expectation is to get some low-end-ish CPUs out that might be on the same level (in terms of efficiency) than older, not really optimised ARM designs.

The biggest incentive RISC-V can offer is less legacy bullshit (like AArch64) and the fact that you don't have to pair royalties to ARM. Perhaps better standardisation of peripherals compared to ARM, so less time/money spent on integration, BSPs and stuff like that.

(And even then: Looking at recent POWER one can see that they can outperform related Intel offerings, while being drastically less efficient.)

<comment><USER5> This is a fallacy that I see repeated about the quality of open products all the time.

It's true, Intel spends more money on R&D than RISC-V is likely to ever get. But that means next to nothing. When a huge, monolithic, management-driven company spends billions of dollars on something, a lot of those billions of dollars aren't being used very effectively.

Consider Linux versus Windows. My suspicion is that Microsoft has spent more money on Windows dev than has ever been spent on Linux dev. Does that mean Windows is better than Linux? No; in fact, many people who have to use both would probably say the opposite. Why is Linux the OS of choice for many production applications in tech-savvy industries? It just works better and easier than the high-budget closed competition.

That's not to say that Linux is starved for funding; many large companies volunteer serious man-hours towards Linux development, because they want an open system that competes with (and beats) the crappy license-uncumbered alternative they would have to use otherwise. I expect the same thing to happen with RISC-V.

You also have this phenomenon in the open-source world where you have grad students, researchers, and enthusiasts embarking on ultra-high-risk projects that would never get funded at most companies, but pay off in a big way when they work. Now that we have an open ISA to work with, I fully expect a huge outpouring of automated synthesis software based on clever new ideas that beats the clunky stuff available in industry. We've already seen this happening on the HDL side of things; open-source, research-driven efforts like Clash and Chisel are orders of magnitude better than the crap that industry has been using for years (VHDL and (System)Verilog). Give it some time for the silicon side of things to improve as well.

<comment><USER6> "We've already seen this happening on the HDL side of things; open-source, research-driven efforts like Clash and Chisel are orders of magnitude better than the crap that industry has been using for years (VHDL and (System) Verilog). "

As someone in the industry, I would have to disagree. I question this every time someone claims it's so awesome. None of those solutions can run simulations on the back annotated netlist . How do you design without a simulation tool that can work at every stage of the design flow?

RTL is a behavioral model. Post synthesis is the physical model. What do you think synthesis engineers do? Just sit around watching the tools run?

<comment><USER7> > What do you think synthesis engineers do? Just sit around watching the tools > run?

Can you explain briefly for someone not in the industry why it's not that simple? This seems like it should be a 100% automatable process.

<comment><USER6> Things don't just work automatically. Some idiot can throw a design in that doesn't just synthesize.

After synthesis, your RTL becomes a gate level representation. You then place your logic i.e. Your memory logic near your memories, I/O logic near your pins etc. You then make clock trees for your various clocks. You don't want related logic clocked by different parts of the clock tree. Once you have stuff physically located, you back annotate and do your static timing analysis.

You generally run simulation on the different stages of synthesis. Someone has to debug all these simulations. They never just pass.

There is a big difference between RTL and gate level simulation. A test passing in RTL is only the 1st stage. RTL doesn't have any wire models so no delays are in there. Gate level sims can run with delays in there.

Synthesis tools can also tell you it doesn't pass timing through static timing analysis but asynchronous parts of the design can't be analyzed. You need simulation there!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13381070](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13381070)

^ Related discussion from when this port was submitted.

</comment><comment><USER9> I remember hearing something about there being problems with RISC-V+GCC since FSF wanted copyright assigned to them. [1]

RISC-V did make it to llvm[2], with there being healthy development there. I remember Fedora running on RISC-V successfully.

Anyone know what happened with the whole copyright assignment problem?

[1]:[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12633037](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12633037)

[2]:[http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm- dev/2016-August/103748....](http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm- dev/2016-August/103748.html)

EDIT: I found a comment[3] in the old submission which answers my question.

[3]:[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13385968](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13385968)

</comment><comment><USER10> How important was it to get support into gcc? llvm wouldn't have been enough?

<comment><USER11> Can you compile linux with llvm?

<comment><USER10> I don't know actually, clang/llvm doesn't compile linux?</comment></comment></comment>