Passport Index 2016 - <AUTHOR> https://www.passportindex.org/byRegion.php <comment><USER2> I had citizenship of one most repressive and poor countries in the world - Uzbekistan. Later I obtained Russian citizenship. Now, I'm living in the Netherlands and plan to obtain citizenship of some first world country (NL, SG etc).

So I have first hand experience to live with Uzbek passport and being practically completely isolated from the first world (nobody give you EU tourist visa if you have Uzbek passport and you are not "special" person).

Now, I have Russian passport, it's a bit easier but I'm still struggling to get even tourist US visa (I was refused twice).

Changing passport is very long and painful process. It can significantly change your course of life (like in my case).

<comment> tuna-piano I've often thought of the dollar value of my US passport (/citizenship). It would definitely be my most valuable asset (then again, taxes are by far my biggest expense). Besides almost unrestricted travel - my income is far higher in the US than it would be in any other country I've looked at.

It's easy to forget how lucky those of us in the developed world are and how so many try so hard to gain status here.

Good luck on your journey, and I hope someday you're able to get the US tourist visa to experience the joys of the US: Yosemite, NYC, Disney World and Taco Bell.

<comment><USER3> This is why I think the European Union should be more like an actual union. You should be able to subscribe to it, and your membership would grant you a passport, rights and duties. It would solve the whole Brexit issue, because everyone who wanted to remain a member could do so. It wouldn't even be that expensive - we pay about £185/year each at the moment to be in the EU (£13bn/70m people).

Edit: Obviously this is not a fully worked out idea. What I find disappointing is that no one in the news ever even talks about alternatives, even narrow alternatives.

<comment><USER4> It's not just work and travel, what about all the taxes, consumer protection laws etc.

How would selling goods be like? An "EU-supermarket" next to the regular one where you have to show your membership to be able to buy?

<comment><USER5> Very interesting idea... Maybe some set of alternative services for EU subscribers.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Is there a guide to multiple citizenship power leveling anywhere?

Edit: A bit of munging from the web page later...

For Americans and British/Western Europe, the passports you want are Burkina Faso, Benin and Senegal. They will bring your passport power level up by 13 points to 168 (American) and 170 (UK) and give you visa free access to Cote Divoire (Ivory Coast), Mali, Iran, Congo, Niger, Benin, Nigeria, Liberia, Central African Republic, Sierra Leone, Guinea, Chad, Ghana. In reality these countries may not allow dual citizenship! Benin and Burkina Faso however do recognize dual citizenship while Senegal does not. ([http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/worldsummary.html](http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/worldsummary.html))

The highest power level you can have as a dual citizen is 170. Any combination of these three African countries and Western European nations will achieve this. So the most powerful dual citizens are mostly West African migrants.

Now for _triple_ citizens, the highest possible power is a whopping 178. There are a few combinations that do this, involving those 3 African countries, plus Russian Federation, Singapore, Japan and Turkey. For example, Turkey/Japan/Senegal, Burkina Faso/Russia/Singapore, Japan/Benin/Turkey. So it looks like the path to ultimate power is sadly blocked for those of us in the USA and Europe, and in fact, the most powerful dual citizens cannot become the most powerful triple citizens. On the other hand, Senegal/United States of America/Malaysia will get you 177, nearly as good.

<comment><USER7> yeah, they are called 'second passport' guides.

assuming marriage is unfavorable and you don't want to pretend to be jewish, there are a couple of treaties you can take advantage of, typically old imperialist countries have guilt trips with their former south american or african colonies and have an easy citizenship path for citizens in those former colonies. But then those former colonies have really malleable government officials so you can get one passport and upgrade to EU, in theory.

then next way that is less theoretical requires money, liquid, cash.

Malta is in the EU and lets you buy an EU citizenship and passport. Takes one year, it isn't that expensive though. ~500,000 euros. Any homeowner in the bay area could do it. The majority of the cost is a real estate or bond investment, so you actually still have your principle.

Many first world countries like the US have pay for citizenship programs if you are wealthy and have liquid assets. Malta's is most analogous to the US' EB-5 citizenship investment program, except you get free trade and travel with a bunch of other countries (like if you really wanted to take advantage of Germany's laws or the UK's laws for your next domicile or company)

St. Kitts and Nevis is a federation in the Caribbean, they offer the same thing for like $250,000. The US State Department cautions investment with that country because of some favorable expropriation laws that government granted itself, but it is no different than civil asset forfeiture in almost any US state. The key point in St. Kitts and Nevis being a federation, like the United States, is that Nevis itself is a semi-autonomous state, like North Carolina would be. And has duplicate laws and officials that fly far under the radar for most international purposes. So, just keep that in mind if you ever need to get crafty.

<comment><USER8> > it isn't that expensive though. ~500,000 euros. Any homeowner in the bay > area could do it.

I'm not sure whether to roll my eyes at over half a million dollars being "not that expensive" or the assertion that _any_ Bay Area homeowner has that much liquidity to just toss at a Maltese passport. Unless you're suggesting selling the house to do it.

<comment><USER7> home equity line of credit

the primary distinction I was hoping to make was that you didn't need to be an international spy or an oil baron to achieve the levels of wealth necessary to get these things.

<comment><USER8> Er, you should revisit what having that much spending power, even via a HELOC, would place one in terms of percentile. Your oil baron suddenly isn't far off since that graph is somewhat exponential.

Most area homeowners I know are driving Civics or Jettas and worrying about property tax assessments, so. The comment was just silly in terms of perspective and was silly to come across in a thread that already discussed privilege (for lack of a better word, I know it's loaded).

A HELOC is a monumentally terrible idea for the situation, by the way.

<comment><USER7> Ok. The bay area comment wasn't the only inflammatory hyberbole I wrote so I will gladly concede that I wrote something incongruent with all perspectives.

Alright?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Let's comment on the visual design of passports. These are all basically the same, except two that stand out: Switzerland, and The Vatican. The latter is very typically Swiss, with an attractive, simple, and modern design. The former is sinister and mysterious, but also quite distinctive.

Honorable mention to Brazil and Bosnia for having passports without a coat of arms type of thing on the front.

<comment><USER10> The Swiss benefit from having a flag with a moniker that is simple and instantly recognizable and fits very well in something similar to today's minimalist designs. The others who use coat-of-arms-like designs can't.

To be fair, I had to search for the Vatican and Switzerland, so they didn't stand out to me. The most noticeable was Brazil's with a "design" (at least a line) that fills the whole cover. It might have hurt though that the Vatican's and Switzerland's passports were on the far left side on my monitor size while Brazil's was near the center.

<comment><USER11> As far as I know the cross is technically the coat of arms, which probably has to do with the whole confederation thing. Passports do usually have quite different backgrounds inside, but generally you of course want them to be as recognizable as possible.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Anyone else reminded of Passport Please? Imagine having to recognize a fake passport by a slight difference in symbol/text format :)

<comment><USER13> Papers Please ^_^ and I loved that game, though this is massively hard mode.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Reminds me of [Quest][1] by sailor-philosopher and self-declared citizen of the world [George Dibbern][2], who renounced his German passport in 1940 and created his own with the following declaration:

> I, George Dibbern, through long years in different countries and sincere > friendship with many people in many lands feel my place to be outside of > nationality, a citizen of the world and a friend of all peoples.

> I recognize the divine origin of all nations and therefore their value in > being as they are, respect their laws, and feel my existence solely as a > bridge of good fellowship between them.

[1]: [http://www.georgedibbern.com/aboutdibbern.html](http://www.georgedibbern.com/aboutdibbern.html) [2]: [http://www.georgedibbern.com/quest- dibbern.html](http://www.georgedibbern.com/quest-dibbern.html)

</comment><comment><USER15> Looking at the passports that provide visa-free access to 158, 157, and 156 countries, I wonder why Viet Nam and Rwanda grant visas on arrival to specifically some European countries, but not others.

So for Viet Nam; Denmark, Germany, Sweden and Spain are okay, but not Austria, Belgium and The Netherlands.

Interesting visualisation; the map is missing South Sudan though.

<comment><USER16> It's just a matter of reciprocity. Look for instance at Gambia: it's visa-free to go there for citizens of countries where Gambian citizen can go visa-free too.

this is just how countries managed/refused treaties with each others, based on mutual interests, history, etc

<comment><USER17> This is pedantic, I know, but also interesting (to me, at least): the country is actually The Gambia, not Gambia. They want the article! And yes, I cringe when I hear news announcers say "The Ukraine" too. :)

(They also have an unusually tasteful flag, that manages to represent the geography of the country without looking like a map.)

<comment><USER16> Ho wow, you are totally correct, and I didn't know that. Thanks for pointing that out!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> The consistency of the design between passports is remarkable. They all follow a basic pattern: Country name at the top, centered logo, then the word 'passport' at the bottom. There are only a handful of countries that deviate from the pattern. It's almost like there is a universal passport design language. Does anyone know if there is a official specification counties follow?

Edit: The international Civil Aviation Organization issues the specification. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Civil_Aviation...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Civil_Aviation_Organization)

</comment><comment> tuna-piano In case anyone else was curious as to the difference between "Visa on Arrival" and "Visa Free", check out this Quora thread: [https://www.quora.com/What-is- the-difference-between-visa-on...](https://www.quora.com/What-is-the- difference-between-visa-on-arrival-and-visa-free-entry-for-travel-to-a- foreign-country)

It seems the practical difference is mainly in name only, although it's possible that immigration officers are given more leeway to restrict entry for the "visa on arrival" countries.

<comment><USER19> Most of the time "Visa on Arrival" costs money as well whereas "Visa Free" is free.

<comment> tuna-piano I'm not sure if that's right. Countries all the time have mandatory fees included in Airline tickets. Sometimes those fees are paid at the airport on arrival instead. Many other other Visa Free countries have a mandatory departure tax.

A lot of the "Visa Free" countries have fees (whether they call them visa fees, tourism fee, etc). I'm not sure that any correlation can be drawn between "Visa Free" and "$0".

<comment><USER19> >Countries all the time have mandatory fees included in Airline tickets.

>Sometimes those fees are paid at the airport on arrival instead.

In most cases they apply to everyone though, even people with no visa requirement.

>I'm not sure that any correlation can be drawn between "Visa Free" and "$0".

Not in general, but when looking at the visa costs.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> The passports with a symbol of a circle inside a rectangle at the bottom include biometric information:

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport)

<comment><USER21> Thank you. I have been wondering this for quite some time.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Last time I was checking this index is pretty crappy (as in inaccurate and spotty; for instance it claims that swiss citizens can access North Korea visa free). Henley & Partners have one that is more reliable. I spot checked last year's version of H&P and that website against timatic which is the source for both and H&P was at least mostly correct.

Unfortunately there is no good way to get access to this information in machine readable format. It's all free form text and full of special rules.

</comment><comment><USER23> There's are some multinational passports. There's the European Union laissez- passer.[1] This is issued to European Union officials who travel on EU business, and is accepted as a passport within the EU and by about 100 non-EU countries. There's also a United Nations laissez-passer, for UN officials.[2] That's not as widely accepted as the EU one.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_laissez- passer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_laissez-passer) [2] United Nations laissez-passer

</comment><comment><USER24> If I imagine a completely open world with no visas I think the "first world" would stop being desirable. USA and Europe would be flooded with hundreds of millions of people and would develop giant slums. It would be bad not only for the current people that live there but also for the people that currently want to move to a better place since there wouldn't be a better place to move to.

</comment><comment><USER25> It would be nice for this ranking to be expanded to include employment/work access beyond tourist visits.

I'm working on acquiring an Italian passport not because it will allow me to enter more countries without a visa (an American passport is fine for that) but because it allows long-term working/residence in EU countries. Unfortunately, this ranking doesn't capture that dynamic.

<comment><USER26> It would be interesting to see what other countries have similar free working visa agreements. It may be hard to capture in a number - there's cases like Canadians getting a TN visa at the border to the US.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> Incidentally the Germanic nations (German, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Switzerland etc) always ranks in top 5 in almost every ranking of this kind.

<comment><USER28> OT: Is Finland a Germanic nation? Their language isn't afaik.

<comment><USER29> No. Finland speaks Finnish and Swedish, and they lie within the Nordic region.

<comment><USER28> Well that doesn't really exclude them since Swedes and Norwegians are Germanic. After more research it seems that Finns are a distinct ethnic group though their origins are somewhat uncertain [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finn](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finn)

In any case, it's all pretty irrelevant to the site.

<comment><USER30> Definitely Finish as a language is completely unrelated to any Germanic language.

<comment><USER31> Grammatically you're right but due to the Baltic trade, the Swedish occupation and various other historical reasons there is a lot of Germanic vocabulary in Finnish etymology, though many words of Germanic origin are no longer recognizable. Estonian, a very closely related language, has kept some of those in an earlier form where they are more recognizably Germanic.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> Mildly disappointed that this appears to only be a list of national passports.

It would be nice to see the World[1] and Sovereign Military Order of Malta[2] passports on here, as well as any others that I don't know about

That said, neither of them align well with the purposes of the company running the site - securing multiple citizenships for rich people.

The latter requires rather a lot of effort to get, as you need to work up to become one of the three senior officials of the order (which, I think, requires a vow of poverty).

The former costs as little as $55 for three years, and doesn't have any visa- free arrangements.

[1] [http://www.worldservice.org/visas.html](http://www.worldservice.org/visas.html)

[2] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Military_Order_of_Ma...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Military_Order_of_Malta_passport)

</comment><comment><USER33>
      National borders are imaginary lines on a map that people are
      willing to kill people for; just for the privilege to keep imagining
      the lines [1]

[1] [http://www.kentforliberty.com/borders.html](http://www.kentforliberty.com/borders.html)

</comment><comment><USER34> No mention yet of the very best passport to have - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_laissez- passer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_laissez-passer)

(It's baby blue of course) It's kind of neat to see them in the wild.

<comment><USER35> > It remains unclear what the remaining added value of an UNLP is, in view of > the restrictions imposed by different countries.

What is the value?

<comment><USER36> I'd guess it helps for people with "unwelcome" citizenship travelling for the UN.

For example, someone from Afghanistan working for the UN Refugee Agency travelling to a conference in the USA might receive less suspicion at the border.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> What is it with South American countries not being able to lay out things properly? Peru looks like someone forgot centre everything and by the time they noticed they had already printed hundreds of thousands of passport covers so they just went with it.

<comment><USER38> Whereas Peru's is one my favorites largely because it's one of the relative few that's not all centered. (I also noticed Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Luxembourg, New Zealand, Portugal, Sweden and Switzerland. Iran and Maldives are centered, but off-center.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> Honduras and Guatemala have the worst passport covers in the world. They're both the same political map of central america with with their respective countries shaded in. It looks like they they both farmed this out to some 10 year old that had never seen a passport before. Both countries have perfectly good coat of arms. Why not use that? Instead it's like a geography lesson. ("I've been working in passport control for years, and I don't know where your country is." "Well, sir, it's this one right here." "Oh nice. Thanks. Learn something everyday!")

</comment><comment><USER40> Australia is such an unwelcoming country it's embarrassing. I suspect it's island mentality. At the airport we treat all arriving passengers as criminals - guilty of some terrible crime until cleared with a fully cavity search. To all our visitors - past, present and future - I apologise for our stupid bureaucracy and politicians. Once you get out of the airport things do get a little better.

<comment><USER41> Honestly most countries are like this if you have to speak with customs. The US has been my worst experience and I use to cross into it frequently. At least with epassports these days I generally don't even have to talk to anyone when I arrive in Sydney except the guy that checks if you need to have the dogs sniff your bags.

<comment><USER42> > I generally don't even have to talk to anyone when I arrive in Sydney

I _always_ have to speak to a customs agent when traveling to Australia. My passport and all alternate photo ids are pre-big-bushy-beard, which throws the facial recognition kiosks for a loop. I made the mistake of trying to joke about it to the customs agent one time, and I remember her raising her eyebrows at me and calling over a supervisor.

The grandparent's comment is pretty descriptive of my experience at the Australian border.

> At the airport we treat all arriving passengers as criminals

<comment><USER41> How many borders is that not descriptive of though? The US border even fingerprints people now.

The closest I've come to not being treated like a criminal are borders in SEA where the agents only spoke a few words of English so they may have looked at me like I was a criminal but couldn't really say it in a way I would understand.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> On the map ([https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php](https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php)) Greenland should probably have a "more powerful" colour since they get a Danish passport.

</comment><comment> tuna-piano In relation to passport power - I find Trump's proposed ban on Muslims pretty interesting to think about. Although widely criticized, it seems to me more ethically wrong to base entry decisions on country of origin (not a choice) than of religion (a choice).

Obviously there are many issues with the practicality, unintended consequences, and the blanket nature of a ban on muslims. That said, I'm not sure I see an ethical issue compared to restricting based on country of origin (what this site shows).

<comment><USER44> Reasoning about immigration laws is pointless because the foundation is based on magical thinking. There is no logic at all behind any of it. Citizenship by blood, by birthplace, by religion... then you look into getting a travel visa, or a work permit. There's nothing rational about any of it. Just endless lunacy. I probably shouldn't complain, as I'm eligible for four different citizenships... but when you look into this stuff, there's nothing very logical about it, and it's somewhat depressing that the planet is still this bizarre.

<comment><USER45> There is nothing illogical about it.

If all the worlds borders were open then economies would move to the average. Workers in poor countries would move to rich countries (because they have higher wages) until those countries wages had gone down, and the countries they left would have their wages go up due to the supply decrease in workers.

It's complete logical self interest for country richer than the average to not want to allow this to happen.

<comment><USER46> Economies are not zero-sum.

The flow of capital and education to poor countries would increase their productivity (and thus wages and standard of living) while the increased supply of labor decreases prices in rich countries, and the new equilibrium would be strictly better for both sides.

Find a good economics textbook. (This is an issue where economists are in almost universal agreement, and almost universally opposed by politicians and the general public).

<comment><USER47> I'm sorry but that's transparently bullshit, an example of good on paper but bad I reality. It does very little but line the pockets of a select few in the rich nations. There is no reason for me to give a shit about someone in Africa if it means my own family, my own people struggle.

<comment><USER48> "My own people".

Clearly you use that phrase to mean people who share a nationality with you. Historically, this phrase has been used more often to refer to people with the same skin color, or religion, as you.

You could use the exact words you used to justify systematic exclusion of people of another race or religion from jobs and markets controlled by "your people". I like to think that we'd all consider that appalling.

Like race or religion, nationality is largely determined by an accident of birth. It is inconsistent to hold that racial or religious discrimination is unethical, but discriminating on the basis of nationality is somehow okay.

<comment><USER49> We are all human, we deserve the same opportunities. But when mass migrations happen, they threaten the host country and also don't solve the problem back in the source country. The solution would be to make it better to live everywhere, so that people would not be so tempted to migrate. It will probably happen for Africa and Middle East in this century, as technology advances quickly.

<comment><USER48> And I assume a very similar argument was made in apartheid South Africa, or Jim Crow US.

"We are all human, we deserve the same opportunities. But when [black people move into white neighborhoods], they threaten [white neighborhoods] and also don't solve the problem back in [black neighborhoods]. The solution would be to make it better to live everywhere, so that people would not be so tempted to migrate. It will probably happen for [Cape Town and Johannesburg?] in this century, as technology advances quickly."

Or, in other words, you propose the "separate but equal" solution.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> akita-ken I wonder how countries choose which colour to use for their passports. Black and purple seem to be the rarest colours, with generally no light colour (other than bright red) being used.

<comment><USER50> The general trend that is visible is that Islamic states tend to prefer green, Communist or former Communist countries prefer red, European nations prefer burgundy and the rest have mostly gone with shades of blue.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passport](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passport)

<comment><USER51> > European nations prefer burgundy

Minor bit of trivia: European Union countries[0], with a few exceptions, all use a standardized passport format[1]. The burgundy red color is specified. (This was one of the reasons given by the "Leave" campaign in the run up to the Brexit vote, that the United Kingdom would be able to return to a blue cover color.)

0 - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passports_of_the_European_Unio...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passports_of_the_European_Union)

1 - [http://eur- lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:...](http://eur- lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:41981X0919:EN:HTML)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER52> Did you know Cuba has agreements with individual countries; like for example, for Serbs it's one of the few hassle free countries to travel to.

</comment><comment><USER53> Just opening this page makes me feel like I'm Jason Bourne and a swat team is about to crash through my window. I closed the tab.

</comment><comment><USER54> Chinese passport holders require visa for Hong Kong even though they are visa- free 145 countries!

And visiting Iran is visa-free for 186 countries!

</comment><comment><USER55> This is fascinating but I found myself frustrated by the lack of an obvious key to the acronyms used in the rankings

</comment><comment><USER56> It would be nice if they explained what these scores mean. Or am I missing something?

</comment><comment><USER57> The pope has a cool passport.

</comment><comment><USER58> The ranking isnt true the strian passport hasnt 32 visa free country

</comment><comment><USER59> nationality is segregation

</comment><comment><USER60> You forgot pizza

<comment><USER61> As someone who grew up 100km from Italy.

US pizza sucks. Easily one of the things I miss most about home.

Also good sausages.

<comment><USER9> America is a huge place. There's a pizzeria in San Francisco, California, run by a man who has won the Naples pizza contest 12 times.

<comment><USER62> I second this. I moved temporarily to the Bay Area from Australia. The USA has a reputation for awful food internationally but ... well, the truth is more complicated. It has terrible food and amazing food depending on where you go. As my old supervisor would say, the US has a higher standard deviation in food quality than most countries do.

I've lost 8kg (15 pounds) since returning to Australia, but just thinking about deep dish pizza makes my mouth water. Its really something special. I try to go to Homeroom, Zacharies and Fentons every time I visit.

<comment><USER9> I think it's just the scale of the place. California is larger than Italy, in terms of area, although less populous. If you were going to say that the US has awful food, you can't cherry-pick Italy as your standard. It would only be fair if you lumped Italy together with Estonia and Ireland and took the average.

I've travelled a lot and I've never been to any place where there wasn't good food. The desire to cook and eat delicious food is universal, and the practice exists wherever there is enough wealth to support it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER63> I find it interesting they rate a passport's "power" by where you can go away to, instead of by where you go home to.

<comment><USER64> People get passports to go away, not the opposite.

<comment><USER65> In post-Soviet countries we have 2 types of passports: one internal which is used as id card and second is for traveling. So for most people there, passport is like a synonym for citizenship.

<comment><USER64> Interesting, I'm from Hungary (pretty sure that counts as post-Soviet), and I've never heard of such a thing.

I'm also pretty sure that the internal passports are 100% irrelevant to this site and one would get confused by this only if they really, really wanted to.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: What is the most efficient way to learn mobile app development? - <AUTHOR>

I have experience in ANSI C, C++, .NET (C++ and C#) but no JAVA, and to some extent I'm familiar with PHP and MySQL. I would like to write a mobile app (preferably for Android) and therefore I'm wondering - how do I start quickly? Any tutorials, online courses you can recommend? <comment><USER2> For Android, I suggest going to YouTube and watching videos from the Android Bootcamp (by Marakana). I'm relearning Android and I think this is pretty efficient.

For iOS, the Stanford iOS course was pretty decent. iOS may have changed a bit from when I watched those videos. Not sure if they are current anymore.

P.S. I don't recommend the coursera course on Android dev. I started watching it but it seemed to be going super slow.

</comment><comment><USER3> Based on knowing those other languages, my guess is that you won't have any problem with the actual programming. Rather, the challenge will be learning the APIs that Google exposes in Android for development. I don't have an particular learning resources to point you to, but I'd say do a search and dig in. Good luck!

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for you answers. I have decided to write an app for iOS, can't be bothered to learn java. Got a macbook and my first app is on its way.</comment>


Ask HN - Allowing other sites to embed Your content (eg. Hellobar, Qualaroo) - <AUTHOR>

I've been searching through the source files forever and can't figure how sites like hellobar.com and qualaroo.com allow someone to embed the companies content on the webmasters site(Never was too great with javascript.) Can anyone explain, or point me in the direction of a good tutorial to walk me through this? Eventually I'd like to figure out how to personalize this based on uID (etc.), but I'll  start with the basics for now. Thank you in advance for any help! <comment><USER2> They host a script, and provide an code to place on your website. You'll need to learn basic Javascript before you get to the point where you have a script that changes based on a user ID.

Hellobar (and a service I am working on) provide variable content based on an ID by requesting a "configuration" file from a server with the provided ID.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the quick response. Lets say for the sake of simplicity (and a short weekend project) that I want to have a <div> on my site that anyone can copy a code <script type="text/javascript" src="//www.mycrummysite/mydiv.js"></script> and put on their website so that it shows the my div. Every time i change the contents of the div, it also changes on their site. That seems like a good way to start. Is there a quick way to learn how to do this?

<comment><USER2> You can't do it that way-- once someone copies the code, it can never be changed by you. What you _can_ change is the _contents_ of the Javascript file. For example, when I make an update to my service, I upload the changes to script.js and the _new_ code is run on the sites that embed that script.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: What saas you wish existed but doesn't? - <AUTHOR> What saas you wish existed but doesn't? <comment><USER2> I'd like to see more program that run on my computer and less saas.

Saas is a big part of the bezzle in 2018

[https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/03/25/the-new- bezzle/](https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/03/25/the-new-bezzle/)

because it appeared to solved the problem of "We don't know how to valuate internet companies" by introducing a hypothetical stream of recurring revenues that fits into traditional valuation spreadsheets.

Trouble is that the profitability of those schemes depends sensitivity of the parameters of the model so it is easy to show people something that looks good but change assumptions about customer acquisition costs, churn, etc. and all bets are off.

The coupling of hardware and software also makes saas pricing difficult. About the only concept in saas pricing that makes sense is "have three plans and people will pick the one in the middle". Unless you are charging people 100x as much as is fair for the hardware you will run into cases where you don't make money on some people. There are many interesting services that have never materialized because you just can't make the pricing work out unless people pay for their own hardware when they need it as opposed to sign up for $X a month.

Eventually there will be a crackdown on subscription box and other recurring payment scams. It is a all a maze of dark patterns that contributes to the erosion of faith in institutions, people thinking the system is rigged, yellow-shirt protestors throwing molotov cocktails, etc.

Think about making what people want as opposed to "I want to make a ssas product"</comment>


Broadcast Your Location To Friends With Google Latitude - <AUTHOR> http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/02/04/broadcast-your-location-to-friends-with-google-latitude/ <comment><USER2> Already posted:

Here: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=465458>

Here: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=465359>

and possibly other places.</comment>


When the Education Bubble Finally Pops - <AUTHOR> http://blog.jamtoday.org/post/70265208/when-the-education-bubble-finally-pops <comment><USER2> I'm being attacked by an evil widget on this page. There is a big-ass Javascript popup, apparently perpetrated by something called "PostRank", that obscures the page on initial load (in Safari 3/Mac). It has a list of posts labeled "Top Posts", none of which are the one I want to read. I can't figure out how to make this thing go away -- there is no close box, and clicking inside it links me away to something else -- and when I scroll the damn thing _follows me_ to make very sure that I never get a glimpse of the actual post. I can't see around it.

Words cannot express how infuriating that widget is. It's like Snap.com _only more evil_. Banish it back to the nether regions from whence it came and submit this post again so I can actually read it.

UPDATE: Seriously, I can't get rid of it. Clicking inside it, clicking outside it, the Escape key, nasty words about its mother -- nothing works. I even tried following one of its links, and the resulting page had the _same obscuring widget on it_. Who designs the UI for these things?

I'll try restarting Safari.

FURTHER UPDATE: Nope, it's out of excuses. That is officially the suckiest non-musical widget I've ever seen.

<comment><USER3> Dude, firefox.

Also, Safari Adblock, it's not terrible.

<comment><USER4> Safari Adblock wouldn't help at all with this widget problem.

Also, Safari Adblock's crap. If you really want to block ads, use <http://glimmerblocker.org/>

The site has pretty bad usability with About page as well. You can't even see close/next/previous links on pages.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I believe universities will be back to being a haven for those who pursue knowledge for its own sake, and most professional-related credentials will no longer include a "degree."

One of the harbingers of this is the fact that a lot of employers started giving exams to the folks they hire. The 4.0 gpa start not being enough to prove to them that someone was educated enough to do the job (whoa!).

I can envision the day when passing some sort of qualifier will be accepted in lieu of a degree for most professions. How you come by the knowledge to pass that qualifier will be up to you.

<comment><USER6> The use of universities as a general source of credentials is probably nothing more than inertia from the days when only a select few could attend. There really is no good reason why everyone should get their education from a research institution, especially when they have no intention of going into research.

I suspect that the system is self-destructing right now. The more degrees that universities award, the less it will matter that it came from a university. This will bring about the end of most university education, and hence most universities (because they can't _all_ be doing worthwhile research).

<comment><USER7> What about qualifications that require specialised equipment or infrastructure? If you need to learn about say chip fabrication or radiology it's not enough to just read about it.

I suppose you could just pay for access to facilities and equipment on demand, but in the case of something like a chemistry lab or x-ray machine the institution granting access has to know your level of competance before they give you access and the easiest way of doing that without checking each time is a structured program.

<comment><USER6> I think other institutions will arise to fill those gaps. They will be pure teaching institutions rather than universisites.

<comment><USER5> It could even happen at the universities, if people start attending for classes and programs but not degrees. Some college departments serve multiple masters: a national accreditation organization, which gives the college as a whole accreditation, and some field-specific professional associations which bless the behavior of departments. The professors care primarily about their field-specific status, while the deans worry about the overall stuff. That's part of the reason why you occasionally see a headline that such-and-such univerisity failed to retain accreditation. Often, you can't find a professor willing to take time away from students and research in order to write a report.

After all, they think, if I satisfy the peers in my field, why do I care if I have an acceptable org chart?

I could easily see an employer caring more about getting through a program blessed by a professional organization than about getting an accredited "degree." I actually think this would be a "purification" process for universities.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Uh, I've been spared this doom-widget.

I feel the press is a bit bubble-happy these days, but the scale of the economic depression doesn't make that unmerited. In fact, I welcome it; education costs have gotten more and more out of hand and no one seems to be making a fuss about it except those having to pay. The bubble craze has pointed out areas where things have been going wrong for a very long time, it's sort of like draining a swamp to reveal all the bodies.

I think part of the bubble is an untested assumption, that having a degree will always net you more income in the long run, much like it was assumed that house prices would never, ever, ever fall. It's a core indicator of a bubble, because it's easy for reality to break things if the assumption stops being true. I can definitely vouch for those who have gotten degrees and lead careers that have nothing to do with them; from a career perspective (not a personal or educational one, mind you), a lot of people have just wasted four years of their life.

I was raised by engineers who got degrees to go work in the very specific fields they got degrees in, so of course this flies directly in the face of what I thought was supposed to be the way things work.

<comment><USER9> I don't think it is right to think of this as a economic bubble. Degrees are not a straight investment. It differs from place to place, of course. But on the whole, demand isn't that related to real or assumed future income effects.

Even when it is, it is also related to prestige, ideas about what it's like to be a lawyer/engineer/doctor & other things. It's not unreasonable that the price will outweigh benefits & that people will _pay_ to be a lawyer.

>> _from a career perspective (not a personal or educational one, mind you),_

I don't think you can isolate those two in the long run.

But all that said, the education world can be turned on it's head. There are more ways to learn things now & there are potentially much, much cheaper ways to provide education. Students subsidising research doesn't make much sense.

I once worked out that for a year of full time study, I was only getting about 5-10 hours of dedicated lecturer/tutor time. That includes some classes with low enrolment & some with massive enrolment & doesn't include preparation or marking.

<comment><USER10> _Students subsidising research doesn't make much sense._

I don't think that is very common: the vast majority of the funding for research comes from the government (e.g. NSF, DARPA, NIH), various non- profits, and corporate sponsorship.

<comment><USER9> A lot comes from these sources, but often a lot comes from fees. Also funding is not necessarily research grants. It also includes keeping the physical Universities & their bureaucracies going.

In any case, my point was that the fees charged by elite US schools are disproportionate to the cost of providing the education. Even the costs are probably disproportionate to the what costs would be if universities were competing on efficiency/price.

<comment><USER11> my advisor is charged a significant ~50% overhead on my stipend and a significant percentage overhead on all equipment (e.g. 100k laser systems). This is paid out of NSF grants and it is supposed to cover costs of building maintenance and utilities.

<comment><USER9> Again, I'm not saying that students are solely carrying the burden of research. There are multiple income sources. But many degree programs are run as revenue generating activities.

But there _are_ a bunch of cross subsidies going on. International/Domestic, Across disciplines, undergraduate/postgraduate. Science students get 3X or more the hours, equipment & materials that sociology or accounting students get. An accounting course (8 courses = 1 year down here) might consist of 2X14 lectures (50-150 students per lecture), 1X12 tutorials(8-15 students) & whatever preparation time is paid (I imagine anywhere from .5 to 2.5 to the hour). Tutors are often only paid in the $20-$30 range. It would not be unusual to average a figure that works out at a small fraction of the cost (or potential cost) to deliver that education.

In general, that hints at a possibility of something flying under the current system & undermining it. All these money machines (eg prestigious MBA programs) could go outside the big institutions. You might say these programs are worthless without the prestige of the institution. Well that's another problem.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Having taken online classes, I can say that they are no replacement for being in a classroom and having interaction with a teacher and classmates.

It would be a shame to see all education move online for purely cost reasons.

<comment><USER13> Indeed. Book knowledge at universities is wonderful, but the value of the social experience cannot be understated. In some sense, one's classmates at a university form a giant fraternity. Stephen Leacock put this quite eloquently in "Oxford as I See It":

"If I were founding a university--and I say it with all the seriousness of which I am capable--I would found first a smoking room; then when I had a little more money in hand I would found a dormitory; then after that, or more probably with it, a decent reading room and a library. After that, if I still had money over that I couldn't use, I would hire a professor and get some text books."

<comment><USER14> Yes, but Oxford is still about learning (and suffering for it!) and far less about job training.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> The education bubble is, in large part, a credit bubble. If you have a resource which has perceived value approaching infinite, competition for the resource, and a government policy subsidizing consumption of the resource (especially via loans), you're naturally going to see the price balloon.

It would be like what happened if you subsidized the speculative investment in assets that people irrationally thought would never decline in price, like, I don't know, homes.

<comment> daniel-cussen Genius. I had never thought of education this way.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> In our capitalist society we have a pyramid shaped distribution of income. For a good portion of history, a college education has meant a place in the top triangle. However, there are only so many spots in that triangle. That is precisely why the cost of a college education will no longer (necessarily) pay for itself in future income. Wages are based on a person's relative skill, and if the whole country has a degree, than it doesn't end up differentiating anyone. Which is why the cost is now seemingly overpriced.

If we really need college degrees for everyone, then there is no choice but to go the high school route and fund it publicly.

<comment><USER17> You seem to assume that education has no effect on your (absolute) productivity?

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> One point: If wages are trending downwards, then wages for professors should also trend downwards. This might make tuition trend downwards as well.

(all trends are in real dollars, costs may simply grow slower than inflation)

Other solutions may be a globalization of the educational system. Currently, US institutions are the top. Perhaps that will change, and costs will decrease as suppliers increase.

<comment><USER19> Salaries for professors are _not_ the main expense in a university. In fact, salaries have increased at a much slower pace then tuition. The whole infrastructure of the university is what is expensive: labs, administration, fitness centers, counseling, etc. Real education is just a small part of the package when a student goes to a university.

Also, tuition is not going to research. Most research is payed by the Government and a few non-profit institutions.

<comment><USER20> Let us not forget the salaries of administrators. Administrative bloat is a huge problem at many universities, and a large number of these people get higher salaries than tenured professors. Is this personnel overhead necessary? Why can't professors have more of a direct influence on university policy? I suspect many of them would like to run things more collectively, with more attention paid to the students.

The "corporate university" thing makes me sick. No thank you, Mr. CEO President.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> The advantage of a college degree is not just salary: the jobs available to college graduates carry better working conditions, hours, and prestige. Evaluations using a net present value calculation are missing the point.

</comment><comment><USER22> But isn't it the characteristic of efficient markets when prices approach real value and the characteristic of a bubble if you can realize huge arbitrage gains by investing a bit in your education to get a top job? So the bubble the author is bemoaning is already gone and he is just longigng for it to reappear because he used to belong to the winners.

But then I am from the old world where education is a basic right and never understood why people would frame it as a purely economic question...

</comment><comment><USER23> Foreign Universities (esp. in English speaking countries: Canada, UK, Australia,...) would be the most likely to provide arbitrage and offer the same service at lower costs. It is just fear of living overseas that is stopping this from happening on a large scale now.

</comment><comment><USER24> after credit card bubble bursts</comment>


DIY cellphone - <AUTHOR> http://hlt.media.mit.edu/?p=2182 <comment><USER2> "Cellular connectivity is provided by the SM5100B GSM Module...". Meh. No way a DYI. It's like you assemble your desktop PC from pieces like motherboard and power supply and say that you built a DYI PC.

<comment><USER3> Sure, but it would be a cool project to build up a nice phone environment using this module.

If anything, this would be more akin to saying "I'm using hardware features on my microprocs to do this neat thing". Not amazing engineering.

On a related note, does anyone know if we can get these modules to do data? Or if there's a cheaper version of these modules?

<comment><USER2> I did a quick peek at their electronics schematics. Well, believe it or not, but it looks like designing a laser-cut custom wooden case for this phone took much more effort than the electronics part. So, returning to my analogy: you are building a DYI PC because you laser-cut a custom case for the off-the- shelf parts you purchased. If this is the level of DYI to be amazed of on this site, I'm completely confused.

<comment><AUTHOR> I posted this not so much because I was amazed by the thing itself or thought it represented some pinnacle of "true" DIY, but more so because I like the idea of making things that were once far out of reach of anyone but serious hackers into something that a broader collection of people could feasibly tackle. It isn't quite there yet, but it is due to people like this that it will be, one day. You could nitpick all day about how most anything isn't truly DIY unless you mine/refine all your own materials and create your electronics from first principles, but that starts to get a bit silly.

More generally, I am a believer in the idea I first read from Clay Shirky that as more people get involved in an area average quality goes down but innovation goes up a lot as you get lots of people trying lots of new things, which in the end is only goodness. Except, perhaps, for those that prefered it remain elite so they could feel special (not saying this is you, but I see this attitude in a lot of pioneers in areas that later become more mainstream).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> BTW, the latest files are here:

Hardware: <https://github.com/damellis/cellphone2hw> Software: <https://github.com/damellis/cellphone2>

<comment><USER5> How's the reception and microphone quality? (i.e. how well does the sound of your voice on the phone compare to say an iPhone or Nokia-era candybar phone?)

Also, great work! I looked into building a cell phone before, and it's an awesome amount of work.

<comment><USER4> It apparently sounds pretty good, according to the people I've called. The reception seems pretty standard, although I don't actually display signal strength in the interface yet so I'm not totally sure.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I'm surprised that nobody mentioned OpenMoko so far: The attempt to create a truly open sourced mobile phone: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko>

Sadly, it failed and was abandoned in 2009.

<comment><USER7> Or Silicon Valley Homebrew Mobile Phone Club in 2006. Or TuxPhone or OpenCell (my contribution).

[Edit: Or SparkFun's original claim to fame, the Port-O-Rotary: <https://www.sparkfun.com/categories/96>]

Personally I like the look of cardboard: <http://bit.ly/10K7Qi0> (my first DIY cell phone)

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Didn't a marketing company recently put live messages into a magazine page using a single chip gsm solution?

Yeah here it was: [http://creativity-online.com/work/cw-live-twitter-feed-in- pr...](http://creativity-online.com/work/cw-live-twitter-feed-in-print-- 4/29266)

I vaguely remember people changing out the gsm sim or making calls on it.

Ah nevermind, it was a fullblown android phone, not a single chip solution: <http://mashable.com/2012/10/02/ew-has-smartphone-inside/>

</comment><comment><USER9> My grandmother has pretty bad arthritis. No major carrier sells a handset that is easy for my grandmother to manage. It may be time to put one together for her.

<comment><USER10> In the UK they sell a range of mobile phones with big buttons, particularly for the elderly. Basic features on it only of course, but that's probably all they will use anyway.

[http://easiphone.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1](http://easiphone.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1)

<comment><USER11> _Basic features on it only of course, but that's probably all they will use anyway._

That's a rather self-fulfilling attitude, and I hope that we as an industry try harder really soon.

My parents are in their late 60s, and are quite good with computers. I'm working on a side project with a woman in her eighties who started programming during the Eisenhower administration. And I know a number of tech folks in their 40s or 50s who have one form or another of muscular or nervous problem. None of them should have to compromise on features just because they want a more accessible device.

<comment><USER10> I didn't mean it in that sense, my parent are both pretty old but have no idea about tech. For them this phone was perfect, since all they wanted to do was make calls, a green button to make the call and a red button to finish the call.

With a phone like this, there has to be a compromise somewhere. By basic features I meant by today's smartphone standard, you are never going to get that to that level with an LCD screen and button taking up all the phone real estate. It is really only going to be possible for calls and SMS messages.

Of course, if they need a smartphone with big "buttons" and a big screen then you could always buy them the Samsung Galaxy Fucking Note

[http://techcrunch.com/2012/10/26/behold-the-best-samsung- gal...](http://techcrunch.com/2012/10/26/behold-the-best-samsung-galaxy-note- sales-pitch-youve-ever-seen/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> How to shrink a basestation into a Raspberry Pi. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCcKgrzbix4> It's not the handset, but rather the basestation. But the concept is similar. I saw this working. It works. And there are open-source versions of the handset software too, although not as mature as OpenBTS.

<comment><USER13> Actually what these guys don't mention is that the Raspberry Pi is plugged into a relatively huge USRP, because that kind of blows their whole "Look how tiny it is" PR out of the water.

<comment><USER14> +5. You can run the whole stack on a router. It's basically doing call control for a couple of channels. The heavy lifting is done in USRP.

<comment><USER15> The host part of OpenBTS is not just call control(Freeswitch or Asterisk provides most of the call control part).

OpenBTS is a software defined radio and really does most of the processing in software. The USRP provides the radio interface, up/down conversion between baseband and carrier frequencies and the analog/digital conversion.

The USRP just sends/receives those samples without caring or knowing about GSM. Samples are processed in software on the host, where the GSM stack is implemented.

There's other hacks(<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFjVcxMpA6c>) where you can just use a couple of phones as the transceiver instead of the USRP.

<comment><USER14> Right, call control with asterisk, and GSM stack in software.

As far as I was aware, the GSM processing isn't much more intensive than equivalent: Ethernet packet assembly + TCP/IP + HTTPS?

I thought all the DSP happened in USRP. So out of that, you get a bit stream, that is sliced into frames, and then processed like any network stack?

<comment><USER15> No, OpeBTS does the GSM related DSP. You get a stream of I/Q samples from the USRP, which is more or less just the digitalization of the baseband. OpenBTS carves the time slots and "frames" out of this, does the GMSK de-modulation and similar stuff.

Note that the lower layers of GSM is very different from e.g. ethernet. Once you get past all the very gory stuff up to layer 2, the concepts are pretty much the same though.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Can anyone share any details about one of those laser wood cutters? Costs/Materials/Brands/Issues etc. for a hobbyist?

<comment><USER17> I bought a 40 watt laser cutter/engraver from China via ebay. It cost a little less than $1800. It cuts wood and some thin plastics (acrylic) like this quite well.

Unfortunately, its quality was so terrible, it was little more than a box of parts. I had to build a new stepper driver and run it from MACH3 to get any results out of it. I also had to replace some "greased rail" style bearings with linear ball bearings to get decent accuracy.

The one they've got at MIT probably says "Epilog" on the side and costs somewhere between your car and your house.

Edit: I generally cut "luan" plywood 1/8" or thinner. It seems like about the thickest I can handle. 1/16" veneer gives me the best results.

<comment><USER16> thanks a lot to everyone who replied! Sounds like the 3d printer that i have no use for may come before the laser cutter i have no use for :/

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> With all these open cell phone stacks: what do people do about IMEI? Isn't modifying IMEIs illegal in many countries? Or is the IMEI already programmed as part of some module from the factory and thus there's no need to change it?

EDIT: Whoops. I did mean IMEI and not ESN. I've edited this post.

<comment><USER7> On GSM phones, ESNs don't apply. IMEIs are the equivalent, however. In that case one of the value-adds of an integrated module is that it comes with an IMEI. If you're going into large scale production you can pay CTIA for your own block of IMEIs and reprogram your modules, but typically that's not worth it. However if memory serves (it's been about 5 years) they force you into doing this if you get above a certain production volume, otherwise it becomes difficult tor track which chunk of the traffic is yours, and whether or not you're shipping a ton of devices which haven't passed carrier certification, etc.

I'd imagine it works similarly with ESNs, but I have no experience there.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> <http://hlt.media.mit.edu/?p=27>

This has more possibilities to me. More exhibition with interaction from viewers.

</comment><comment><USER20> Finally, a karma free phone. I wonder if people will start designing cases made using a 3D printer for the next generations of these DIY cell phones.

</comment><comment><USER21> I, Pencil: My Family Tree as told to Leonard E. Read:

<http://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/rdPncl1.html>

</comment><comment><USER22> It's like Raspberry Pi for cell phones...

<comment><USER23> Combine this with the Raspberry Pi base station, and there's HackerNet :) [http://www.newelectronics.co.uk/electronics- news/basestation...](http://www.newelectronics.co.uk/electronics- news/basestation-created-on-raspberry-pi/46960/)</comment></comment>


Introducing Zink: OpenGL on Vulkan - <AUTHOR> https://www.kusma.xyz/blog/2018/10/31/introducing-zink.html <comment><USER2> I suspect that implementing OpenGL ontop of Vulkan is the way of the future.

<comment><USER3> Hopefully if so, without any of the old legacy crap, if it is intended to be actually used to write new code. If it is just a shim to let old OpenGL code run on Vulkan drivers, which appears to be more the point, then I expect that is unavoidable, as long as we do want to be able to keep running older software down the line.

I do feel like there ought to be something for a higher level API that is not a full game engine, is not laden with the historical missteps and anachronisms of OpenGL, and doesn't require the masochism and verbosity of Vulkan. I rather liked DirectX 9, especially with all the built-in convenience utilities in D3DX that were later dropped.

<comment><USER4> Metal is very close to that "perfect layer" in my opinion. I would love to see a portable Metal built on top of Vulkan, rather than the MoltenVK we're getting (an insane idea, in my opinion). Perhaps the Dash/NXT thing that Google is building would be an OK substitute?

<comment><USER5> Not by Khronos given the C++ usage on Metal, as they still keep being too C focused.

<comment><USER4> ? There's no C++ in Metal, it's Objective-C. You can build C or C++ bindings for Metal if you want ( as has been done by [https://github.com/recp/cmt](https://github.com/recp/cmt) ), the binding language is not really a concern.

<comment><USER6> > There's no C++ in Metal, it's Objective-C.

... did you use Metal ? Metal shaders are written in ≈C++14. Says so right here in the first example: [https://developer.apple.com/documentation/metal/hello_triang...](https://developer.apple.com/documentation/metal/hello_triangle)

<comment><USER4> Oh, sure, the shader language. That part doesn't really matter to me, it all gets compiled to some GPU-specific machine code in the end. Write it in GLSL, HLSL, SPIR-V, C++, who cares really. And shader cross-compilers are already _incredibly_ common in the industry (most write in HLSL, then translate with HLSLParser, or glsl-optimizer, or spirv-cross, etc.).

When I talk about "good APIs", I'm mostly talking about the driver and CPU side of things, since that's the common bottleneck we're looking to replace with an OpenGL replacement. GPU compiler is already pretty highly optimized.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> gfx-rs is solving the same problem with a different approach.

[https://github.com/gfx-rs/portability](https://github.com/gfx-rs/portability)

<comment><USER8> Isn't it solving a different problem? My understanding of gfx-rs is that it implements vulkan on top of X, where X is direct3d, metal, opengl, or vulkan. (It also implements a high-level graphics api in rust, but exposes a vulkan implementation to c programs.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Just when I thought we were finally getting rid of old-school OpenGL..

I guess it's probably good for legacy stuff though!

<comment><USER5> Not everyone is willing to jump into low level 3D APIs, the traditional CAD/CAM vendors for example.

Many think that OpenGL with core context is already too low level.

Which the answer is in both cases to have some kind of middleware.

I always considered a mistake that OpenInventor was never part of the standardization deal, because everyone ends up writing their own version of scene graph APIs.

<comment><USER4> Farenheit, Inventor, VRML, every so often one comes out with "the scene graph to rule them all". Turns out writing a high-performance renderer (and you do want that) is quite challenging. There are so many different rendering techniques and the scene graph is really not the hard part...

<comment><USER5> I do agree, the thing is 90% of the API users just want to render a mesh of some sort and not write a high performance render engine able to sustain 90 FPS under all conditions.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Why the iPad Is Going Extinct - <AUTHOR> https://newrepublic.com/article/128577/ipad-going-extinct <comment><USER2> Tablets aren't worthless, but they are niche. The niche is where a phone doesn't have a big enough screen, but a laptop is too cumbersome.

1\. Video and map display for a drone in the field

2\. Reading, you could use a dedicated device, but I don't

3\. Secondary display to watch video(TV) passively while working on a laptop, while not around a TV

4\. Some games for the bigger display, and increased battery life

One of the things has held tablets back is that historically you had to have a second data plan to get your tablet online anywhere. So most people would get the wifi only models. I find the combination of a phone as the mifi like device, and the tablet as the great combination at times.

You can now share data between devices on some plans, but carrier compatibility definitely complicates things.

<comment><USER3> You have four points. One of which involves some conflict in Afghanistan, while the other three involve sitting on one's ass consuming content. That is a huge discrepancy. I don't know if that means tablets are destined to stay around for a while or that they are completely replaceable with a laptop or a "phablet."

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> The headline is a bit overdramatic. The iPad isn't taking off like the iPhone, mainly because fewer people need it and not very many people are interested in replacing it every other year. But it's still _useful_ and bringing in a profit.

The end of the article, however, does make a good point. All of these publications that were betting on jumpstarting sales again by all these new iPad users are very disappointed. No one has managed to keep the bundle + ads business model working and Facebook/Google/social is eating their lunch. So Apple's doing okay with the product, but one of the iPad's "killer apps" turned out to be a dud.

</comment><comment><USER5> I've regretted each tablet I've ever bought. They aren't as powerful as laptops, they aren't as portable as phones, they don't read as nicely as a Kindle or (gasp) a library book.

They end up sitting in a pile. For the odd occasion that I might want to pull one out I barely bother to keep them charged.

</comment><comment><USER6> I've seen it this way for a while: tablets occupy an uncanny valley between a phone and a desktop/laptop. They are too restricted/jailed and limited in UI scope to replace the latter, and they are too bulky to replace the former.

</comment><comment><USER7> Strange nobody wanted to shell out $600 for a device that only let you consume. Also strange to refer to Microsoft's Surface as a hybrid tablet. It's still a tablet, just one with better features and software than Apple's.

<comment><USER6> Surface is a laptop with a detachable keyboard.

<comment><USER8> That is what a tablet is. Most tablets these days run mobile OS. I think that is where the real issue is. Mobile OS are great for consuming content, but not at creating content.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: How Soon Will I Get My OS X Yosemite Beta Code? - <AUTHOR>

I signed up for the beta yesterday, using my developer Apple ID (non-paid). I was notified that I would be emailed a beta code when they were available, but how soon will that be? How are they rolling out the access codes? Have others already gotten theirs? <comment><USER2> Got mine the moment I clicked the button and it launched the Mac App Store App.

Check purchases tab in the App Store app?

(say that 3 times fast)</comment>


Everybody Hates Uber - <AUTHOR> https://lawless.tech/everybody-hates-uber-regulations-outraged-taxi-drivers-and-in-house-scandals-that-ruin-their-business/ <comment><USER2> I remember the nightlife before Uber in Paris... It sucked. The ridiculously rare taxis were always only taking people that accepted to (over)pay in cash. In other words you were basically auctioning a ride home. Also, I doubt that they were declaring that cash as income.

I love Uber and all their competitors.

<comment><USER3> Doesn't Uber do that auctioning too? They call it price surging. Typically only happens during events where there's a spike in demand, like a very popular concert, for example.

<comment><USER4> Sure, but the auction itself is largely hidden away from you, instead of competing with other riders on price. In this case availability + east of use trumps "weird auctioning for rides"

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> It's possible to give riders good, modern conveniences like being able to order and pay with a pocket computer app _without_ breaking taxicab regulations. That is, it's possible to be a cab company with good service, a good fleet, and good app integration. Here in Montréal we have Téo Taxi as an example of this kind of service. As a plus, their fleet is also all-electric.

[https://teomtl.com/en/](https://teomtl.com/en/)

Legally speaking; they're plain cabs. They have the same fares as all other cabs, and follow all the regulations that other cabs obey. The company that owns them has also bought another cab service, Taxi Diamond, which has begun to operate in a similar manner, with a pocket computer app, and the two fleets may even share with each other. During peak hours when a Téo is unavailable, you may get a Diamond instead.

I know similar services have popped up elsewhere in the world. I don't know if Uber is directly responsible for these updates to cab services, but their existence means that it's possible to be better without having to break all existing laws. Laws which exist to protect both consumers and employees.

<comment><USER5> Yes, it is possible. It even happened more than once over the world.

What is also clear is that modern taxi regulations serve much more to create a lucrative market for favored people than to protect common people, promote an economy, or increase the safety of society. The fact that a few times it got distorted into something that was actually good for everybody does not make the regulation good, it's just something that happen to anything that is widespread.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I strongly disagree with this. I enjoy the Uber experience and the customer support that the company provides.

To me, Uber is a great company both as a customer and entrepreneur.

<comment><USER7> I don't understand your comment. Did you even read the article, or did you just read the headline and reactively decided to reply on an unreflected whim? What, exactly, are you trying to say in the context of this article? When you heard about the Equifax breach, was your reaction "But their customer service person the other day was a really nice guy"?

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I'm surprised no-one seems to mention this view;

I enjoy the service. I dislike the Uber company morals.

Personally Ive tried using a local version of Uber (Gocatch) mutiple times and it's just not as good. I really dislike continually immoral behaviour of Uber and would like to support an alternate. But the service has to work and in Australia there doesn't seem to be an option. I feel this is a huge business opportunity if someone can get a competitor right. But I've never seen good marketing to pull people from Uber and it seems to be getting ever harder position to break. I think in my region the guys really missed an opportunity as Uber seem to be cleaning up their act and giving free press to competitors.

<comment><USER9> > I dislike the Uber company morals.

I totally agree with this statement and the one preceding it, but since when did we start (or stop) using a company's products and services based on the company (or individual CEO, founders') moral behavior?

If you did deep enough, you can find plenty of immoral behavior and moral shortcoming on almost every major company and/or CEOs, founders. Even Apple (CEO Jobs was famous for not donating even a penny to charity, being a "d*ck" to his co-workers... etc). Does that mean you stop using iphones? Or stop filling Gas because Chevron and Exxon 'don't care about the environment'?

By that notion -- judging a company or service based on moral behavior and deciding to not use them -- one cannot properly function on a day to day basis in the modern world.

<comment><USER8> > but since when did we start (or stop) using a company's products and > services based on the company (or individual CEO, founders') moral behavior?

Since forever. At the bottom of this comment I've linked a study saying 50% of people will change their purchasing power on a companies perceived moral.

Brand has always been a massive component of a companies value and sales driver. There's a strong reason companies publicise good acts, donations to charities etc and have been doing this since early days of the modern economy. And this is increasing important the more elastic and comparable a product/service.

>By that notion -- judging a company or service based on moral behavior and deciding to not use them -- one cannot properly function on a day to day basis in the modern world.

This feels all or nothing. People act on what they know. Or what they care about. One does not have to be fully informed to have these decisions. Nor stop using a product where you feel let down by a companies morals. Only use an alternate when a person feels the alternate is a reasonable replacement.

The study I found with a quick search. [https://theamericangenius.com/business-marketing/company- eth...](https://theamericangenius.com/business-marketing/company-ethics- actually-affect-purchase-decisions-study/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I've never paid for an Uber, but I have enough non-tech friends who swear by it, including one who spends over $1000/month on it.

For Uber the world is like a big Risk board. They invade territories all over the world and roll the dice. Some they win and some they lose, but they win more than they lose, and the more territories they hold, the more armies they get to play with next round.

</comment><comment><USER11> I love using Uber and am willing to look past their previous corporate offences since their new CEO seems focused on righting the wrongs. Uber's key problem is that their core business is illegal in most countries, since most countries have laws and regulations to protect passengers in taxis. Whether or not those laws and regulations should be changed is up for debate, but I think we need to refer to Uber as a taxi company instead of a ride-share company.

</comment><comment><USER12> Consumers love Uber.

</comment><comment><USER13> Uber rules. From Mexico City, Rome to Lisboa.

</comment><comment><USER14> It's pretty obvious that customers love Uber, which is why they're so ubiquitous. The main opponents to Uber are simply motivated by commercial incentive. It's the same in any industry that's threatened by new business models.

<comment><USER15> I have no commercial incentive to hate them. I'm also not in an area where I'm forced to take them due to lack of public transportation options, fortunately.

Buses run on time. Every taxi I've taken here is clean. Pricing is upfront. An app exists so I can order a cab, but in the center of town, I know _exactly_ where to find a cab if I'm out at a bar. I can also walk the 45-55 minutes home from there, but I don't always want to in winter.

I prefer a system that doesn't screw over drivers. I don't want to be rated by the driver on whether or not I'm a good passenger. It seems trivial. I want someone driving for pay to have a special driver's license endorsement.

I don't want to willingly give money to a company with a culture such as them. If I were in an area where another such service was available instead, I'd choose the one that is willing to work with lawmakers and cities instead of flagrantly avoiding them.

That's not to say that taxi service is good everywhere or doesn't need change. I'm a supporter of public transportation and wish it were expanded. I'd only take Uber if there was absolutely no other option whatsoever, though.

<comment><USER16> Then don't use uber and let others who don't care about these things use it?

<comment><USER15> I do not use them. I'm not even sure if Uber itself exists where I'm at, and have not checked. And No, not really, though it isn't like I'm forcing folks to avoid them. I'm vocal about the dislike, though. I encourage others to use other options when reasonable options exist. I'll encourage folks to talk to their governments to put reasonable options in place. And so on.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I've decided to honk every time an Uber/Lyft double-parks in front of me. These services, while offering some convenience, are also affirmative action for bad drivers. They make everything about driving in the city more annoying, but people who don't have cars and/or don't drive don't seem to appreciate this as they have their driver let them off in the most inopportune places.

<comment><USER18> What you've said relates two unrelated things. Drivers who double park suck, but Uber/Lyft drivers aren't the only ones that do. If it makes you feel better just honk at all cars that double park.

<comment><USER17> Uber/Lyft drivers are the only ones that pull up with their hazards on just as soon as their car is on the far side of the intersection. They're the only ones biding their time in the bike lane waiting for another fare. They _aren 't_ the only ones bouncing between the lane lines checking their phones, but that's a little less appropriate for honking. I _will_ flash highbeams at them if they're truly egregious.

I know what I'm talking about, I drive, bike, and walk in this city, and I pay attention and I know the laws. And I don't know where you get that this is to make myself "feel better," because my intent is to make these cars' presence uglier for the neighborhoods in which they behave this way.

<comment><USER18> The only thing you do by honking your horn at a car in a lane they're taking up is 1) they move if they're not there for a reason or need to be there, or 2) being briefly annoying to the driver, if they're even in the car, which the driver will promptly forget. If you know the laws and see a car breaking a law, then call the police and tell them someone is breaking the law, since it's their responsibility and not yours to police.

<comment><USER17> Like I said, it's not so much about them remembering (though that would be nice), it's about providing a memory for those within earshot.

 _If you know the laws and see a car breaking a law, then call the police and tell them someone is breaking the law_

Do you live in a city with a big gigcar presence? These incidents only last a minute, so other strategies are necessary. FWIW, they are invariably also blocking the bike lane.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Brilliant essay explaining why Arc won't be open source - <AUTHOR> http://infinityis.blogspot.com/2006/04/why-paul-graham-wont-release-arc-paul.html

<comment><USER2> I saw this when it was first published. I remember thinking it had to be a troll because nobody could possibly be that stupid.

<comment><USER3> The other problem with his argument is that the effort to reimplement a lightweight language is often less than the effort required to cope with a closed (read: crippled) implementation.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Most brilliant part: "Even at that, Y-combinator is funding would-be Arc- competitors like Infogami."

</comment><comment><USER5> > (eql (not open-source) nil)

T

></comment>


Ask HN: Review My Startup: Vibe, a Team Morale Meter for Slack - <AUTHOR> Hello, I'm part of a small team in Tokyo, building HR-Tech products powered by machine learning.
For the past 6 months we've been working on a product called Vibe, which is a Morale Meter for teams using slack: https://vibe.work
It would be great to hear your thoughts and feedback about the product. In particular, if you manage people, do you think this could help your decision making? <comment><USER2> The landing page seems a bit long. Users probably don't care about your team. They probably care about your pricing more. Put it at the top. Because the call to action is whipping out a credit card. Then worry about justifying it. Get to 'No' quick. A/B test on pricing will be easier if it's at the top. Putting it at the top casts the light on whatever dubious business case has been made for a free plan. Anchoring the value to zero dollars seems like something that needs significant research to justify.

The pitch seems a bit at odds with bottom up marketing: the bulk of Slack users probably aren't highly enthusiastic about sentiment monitoring and analytics as a feature.

Overall, the design seems more than a bit tuned toward selling investors at the expense of selling a useful product. Fundraising is a means to an end.

Good luck.</comment>


Why SaaS will prevail by 2015 - <AUTHOR> http://blogs.computerworld.com/why_saas_will_prevail_by_2015 <comment><USER2> Being a lawyer specialized in cloud-based services (you know, either defending them against angry users who lost data, or helping the same users sue their services) - THAT will be a heck of a gold mine by 2015!

Come to think of it... Would YCombinator fund a tech-related law firm? :-)</comment>


AWS announces launch of us-east-2 (Ohio) - <AUTHOR> https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2016/10/announcing-the-aws-us-east-ohio-region/ <comment><USER2> Come back! We miss you.</comment>


Elon Musk on Why His Rockets Are Faster, Cheaper and Lighter - <AUTHOR> http://www.pehub.com/74756/elon-musk-on-why-his-rockets-are-faster-cheaper-and-lighter-than-what-youve-seen-before/ <comment><USER2> It's fascinating to watch his life play out in real-time in the limelight. His success and failures with SpaceX launches and Tesla production struggles along with other more unfortunate personal issues.

I know we all feel similar ups and downs with our own products and services.

I watched this Charlie Rose interview with him a few months ago and it turned me on to his ideas of wanting to focus his efforts in three distinct areas - internet technology, space exploration and green technology.

I recommend watching it if you're interested in his career.

Here's the link: <http://www.charlierose.com/guest/view/6716>

</comment><comment><USER3> Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLYD_-A_X5E>

All chuckles aside, it's the imagination that SpaceX is bringing to the launch industry that is able to let them break free from the current status quo. He specifically mentions running the operation more like a Silicon Valley startup then the traditional fare. I hope we all get to ride a SpaceX into the final frontier in the next 50 years. Good luck and Godspeed.

</comment><comment><USER4> Although he doesn't mention the Kelly Johnson Skunk Works at Lockheed, where the SR-71 and other famous aircraft were created, the SpaceX approach is at least as similar to that as it is to a classical Silicon Valley startup.

For those who doesn't think entrepreneurs are risk takers, Elon is a good case study--he appears to have invested every penny of his personal wealth in starting a space company and an automobile company, simultaneously.

<comment><USER5> For those that don't know about it, this book on skunk works is a wonderful read:

[http://www.amazon.com/Skunk-Works-Personal-Memoir- Lockheed/d...](http://www.amazon.com/Skunk-Works-Personal-Memoir- Lockheed/dp/0316743003/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276939618&sr=8-1)

<comment><USER4> That book is by Johnson's protege and successor, this one is by Kelly himself:

[http://www.amazon.com/Kelly-More-Than-Share- All/dp/087474491...](http://www.amazon.com/Kelly-More-Than-Share- All/dp/0874744911/)

Both are amazing stories.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Not to minimise their accomplishments but, once again, the table has been set pretty well by decades of publicly funded research and development. It is actually _possible_ to be vertically integrated again with all the shared know-how.

<comment><USER7> Agreed. I just got back from the National Air & Space Museum where I saw a few rocket engines, and it occurs to me that _somebody_ had to figure out how to build such an amazing piece of machinery once upon a time, and that somebody was NASA. SpaceX is doing an amazing job, but there's no way in hell they could go from a twinkle in Elon Musk's eye to orbit in 7 years without Apollo, Gemini, Mercury, etc. Even SpaceX's location (El Segundo) was specifically chosen because of its proximity to all the SoCal aerospace contractors.

Great example of government priming the pump.

<comment><USER8> I've seen interviews where Elon specifically points this out. The explosion of innovation on the internet was largely made possible by the work of DARPA, and he compares this to the decades of experimentation and research that is enabling this nascent space revolution. (SpaceX, BlueOrigin, SpaceShipOne, etc.)

The real difference isn't the technology, but the mindset with you how you apply it. Big aerospace contractors (Boeing, Lockheed, etc.) do everything from a "one off" perspective - they are effectively the world's largest contracting firms. Their business model isn't making something repeatable and cheaper, it's about building custom things from the ground up over and over again. And they are REALLY expensive.

Elon is simply taking all that collective knowledge and converting it into a repeatable process that can be incrementally improved and drive down cost over time. Making the Honda Civic of Rockets, as opposed to the Lamborghini. :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Seems like a big part of it is actually caring about cost - taking it into account during design, manufacturing, launch preparation, etc. Doesn't look like NASA did that until recent years, and even then only superficially.

<comment><USER4> SpaceX had their big contract with NASA structured as a fixed price contracts. Most other contracts are cost plus, where the contractor gets paid for their costs plus an additional percent for profit.

It shouldn't be surprising that traditional program costs have not come down, since the more you spend the more you make.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> > SpaceX has launched just two rockets successfully in its history

Their three most recent launches were all successful.

</comment><comment><USER11> I haven't followed Mr Musk's career at all and I kind of assume he's an insane ego-maniac. Having said that, this guy's my new hero.

He sounds like he's more Burt Rutan than Richard Branson and the fact that he's seen through an end-to-end design for launch vehicles is pretty mind blowing.

If you look through the photos on his site it kind of has the feel of a boutique bike factory - say Cannondale in the early days - but then you see pictures of them 'spin forming titanium' or something equally exotic. Pretty cool stuff.

</comment><comment><USER12> Can't wait for Telsa's IPO is June 28th

</comment><comment><USER13> For some reason, this title reminds me incredibly of an (approximate) quote of:

Hank Rearden on why his metal is stronger, cheaper, lighter...

</comment><comment><USER14> Musk strikes me a bit as the Howard Hughes of our age. Except without the urine collection. (I think.)

</comment><comment><USER15> Elon Musk is a ZOG agent who bilked his investors. Don't trust him.

</comment><comment><USER16> He should get his car working first

<comment><USER14> The Roadster model has shipped. I saw one parked in downtown Boulder last week.

<comment><USER17> Indeed. There are a fair number of these out there, and they've been out there for several years now. I've encountered four different ones in just Boston's Back Bay. I'm sure if you hunted around you'd find plenty more in just the Boston metro. Though like most exotic and semi-exotic cars, my guess is about 30-60% of all production ends up in Southern California.</comment></comment></comment>