How to Contribute to Open Source Software - <AUTHOR> https://killalldefects.com/2020/01/26/how-to-contribute-to-open-source-software/ <comment><USER2> If you want to contribute to OSS, the Code Shelter would like your help maintaining abandoned OSS projects: [https://www.codeshelter.co/](https://www.codeshelter.co/)

Disclosure: I started this.

<comment><USER3> Why are you calling them "abandoned"? On the site, you say it's for projects that need some help. I don't think people looking to contribute to OSS want to find "abandoned" projects to contribute to.

<comment><USER2> Some just need help, some are completely abandoned. Maybe people don't want that, personally I contribute to less-maintained projects I find useful.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I would like to know Why I should contribute to Open Source when Microsoft is a massive company that has plenty of resources to fix its own bugs.

Sure if you are at Uni, Just starting out or something that not likely to be commercial (console emulator, hobbyist projects etc) it might be a good way to get some experience and something to put on the CV. Otherwise you are just giving your hard work away for free to companies that have plenty of money to to put plenty of developers to work on it.

<comment><USER5> I've watched with great interest over time how Microsoft has evolved from closed source to open source. IMHO, Much of their motivation derives from huge demand from the community to open source their software. Developers benefit in several ways by being able to quickly fix bugs, possibility (depends on project) of adding a feature, and desire to contribute to the community on software they like. There has also been several products that Microsoft has decided to stop providing, but have lived on through community adoption, which is huge if developers have dedicated their own time to learn and integrate the software with their own projects over time. Open source also gives developers a say in the development of products, watching it being built in the open, influencing direction/features, and making it easier to understand what the code does under the hood. Additionally, Microsoft has embraced and supported 3rd party open source for a number of years, building on their relationship with the community.

<comment><USER4> This reply is total buzzword salad.

> I've watched with great interest over time how Microsoft has evolved from > closed source to open source. IMHO, Much of their motivation derives from > huge demand from the community to open source their software.

I am not a Microsoft hater but that is half true. The fact of the matter is that in 2010-2012ish their tech stack basically wasn't cool anymore and back then if you had cut me I would have bled Microsoft blue. The fact of the matter is that newest Juniors don't like working with the old Microsoft stack. Outside of .NET core everything release (including the newer versions of Visual Studio since 2010) hasn't really been adopted.

> Developers benefit in several ways by being able to quickly fix bugs, > possibility (depends on project) of adding a feature, and desire to > contribute to the community on software they like.

Is this a copy and paste answer of the "benefits of open source"?

The point I was making was that these huge companies (all of the large companies) have taken open source software and put most of the useful bits to tie it all together and put it behind pay walls (PaaS).

If a patch or a set of patches is not in <insert big companies interest> it probably won't be allowed in the project. Forks of these projects generally die because there isn't a dedicated resource unlike <insert large company can provide>.

> There has also been several products that Microsoft has decided to stop > providing, but have lived on through community adoption, which is huge if > developers have dedicated their own time to learn and integrate the software > with their own projects over time.

Which ones? Almost everything that isn't officially in the Microsoft repos for the most part is dead. The few things that are .NET that have survived are quite small tbh.

> Open source also gives developers a say in the development of products, > watching it being built in the open, influencing direction/features, and > making it easier to understand what the code does under the hood. > Additionally, Microsoft has embraced and supported 3rd party open source for > a number of years, building on their relationship with the community.

Gives how much of a say. Not much I would reckon.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> A huge chunk of OSS work that always needs to be done is the thankless task of grooming the backlog of issues.

Project management is indeed an important skill.

</comment><comment><USER7> Open source and Microsoft Corporation.

I expected something different like the kernel, the Linux kernel, or a Java package, python tool, or something. Not vs, .bet (yes .bet) and Microsoft.

Funny how Microsoft is bring pushed everywhere still.

<comment><USER8> I thought it was odd, too. But I'm very glad to see this. Open Source is a powerful and good force, it's awesome to see new people jumping in.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I'm looking for tips to make this project public usable.

[https://github.com/imvetri/ui-editor](https://github.com/imvetri/ui-editor)</comment>


Get started with FreeBSD: A brief intro for Linux users - <AUTHOR> http://www.infoworld.com/article/2858288/unix/intro-to-freebsd-for-linux-users.html

<comment><USER2> Whats the advantage of using 9.3 instead of 10.1?

I have about 20 yrs linux experience and a couple months freebsd (10.0, and now 10.1). Here's my diff against the pretty good article:

I set up everything in /etc/rc.conf.d in separate files and don't touch /etc/rc.conf. I have automation, you see, and its WAY simpler to CRUD an entire file at a time than to automate editing the innards of one file. If only sysctl.conf had a sysctl.conf.d directory... I like how PAM is set up on freebsd which is yet a third way to split (or not split) config across files in the filesystem. Perhaps that directory feature was added for rc.conf.d sometime between the authors 9.3 and my 10.1.

I haven't found a reason/interest in using ports, I'm just pkg all the way. So far. I haven't even begun to look into automating ports for puppet. I'd be interested in anecdotes about that.

The article specifically lists not discussing the linux compatibility layer. I assure readers that you get a most fascinating error message when you don't have the linux layer installed (at least if using nvidia driver). Google saved me of course. Something about the elf format not having a handler, which is kinda a giveaway if you know nvidia driver runs under linux compatibility. If you don't know freebsd has a linux compatibility layer, or that the nvidia driver uses it, then its more entertaining.

Another pity is the article mentions ZFS but not why. Holy cow ZFS is cool. I used LVM for many years (decades?) on linux for volume management (makes physical drive upgrades trivial, snapshots, etc) and my mind was somewhat blown at dynamic allocation. So at the pool level your space isn't allocated until you actually use it. Very cool. Also very fast. Of course everything is fast on a SSD...

Whats missing from the article is tricky stuff for current/former linux admins.

Tricky stuff like my passwd comes from ldap and on the legacy linux boxes I use /bin/bash as a shell so you can guess what happens the first time you enable ldap on freebsd, where it doesn't keep bash in /bin. For better or worse at least short term I put a symlink on the freebsd box. As the conversion proceeds I will end up changing ldap to the freebsd home of bash (/usr/local/bin/bash) and symlink the remaining linux boxes LOL.

Another tricky filesystem path amusement is there's some non-intuitive funkiness like you install openafs so naturally the /etc/rc.conf.d file needs to be named afsd or something like that. You can name the file openafs all you want or whatever, it just won't work. There was some other aggravation.

Other symlink amusements, I had xmonad config with hardcoded paths to xmobar or something (or was it trayer?) and seeing as all my machines have root on AFS that made life entertaining for awhile.

PAM is close enough to linux to make you really complacent but beware, there be dragons. Linux style PAM can have weird results on freebsd. For a good time try ending a stanza (?) with a _sufficient and then try logging in with any random password... it'll let you in. Its similar enough for you to let your guard down, different enough to really shoot yourself in your foot. I suppose if you're not doing LDAP / Kerberos / OpenAFS then you don't touch PAM so it doesn't matter. (Oh and you know whats not fun about PAM on freebsd? No libpam-afsd-session functionality... I want aklog run when I login, so I can access my afs provided homedir. I believe the fix is something with the redhat provided pam krb5 package which I haven't invested the time to fix.)

I jammed my pkg system nicely somehow awhile back and it refused to download new package lists (pkg update did NOT download a new file although the old one was valid, I can't install vim-5.18 or whatever when the archive only has vim-5.40 avail, or something like that) I believe I moved the archive file outta the way forcing it to download a new one and then all was well. So that was interesting.

pkg also acts "weird" if you partially download a file, then control-C or whatever and try to restart. apt-get on linux notices the length discrepancy and redownloads. pkg freaks and won't try downloading a new copy of the truncated pkg. I believe I fixed this with 'pkg clean' and trying a reinstall.

I installed 10.0, tried to upgrade to 10.1, crazy endless kernel panics. Well, that was annoying. A bare metal reinstall of 10.1 worked. 5 or so minutes of automation doing its thing, and everything was set up on the new 10.1 just like it was on 10.0 to my surprise nothing really changed. I don't think I've ever, in 20 years, experienced a debian upgrade failure other than hardware related or systemd related... so that was "interesting" although harmless.

Sound "just works". If you're used to the linux style where either sound doesn't work or a fresh install always sets the mixer volumes to all zeros, you'll be pleasantly surprised with freebsd where it just boringly works.

It makes a heck of a great desktop. I've got my xmonad, my urxvt/bash, my emacs, and my chromium and I need nothing else for a perfect desktop environment. I'm looking forward to my conversion project for the server infrastructure and everything is proceeding nicely so far...</comment>


Tools & Frameworks for Responsive Design - <AUTHOR> http://fuelyourcoding.com/10-tools-frameworks-for-responsive-design/

<comment><USER2> How is zurb's foundation not included? Very promising, responsive alternative to Bootstrap

<comment><USER3> Agreed. I just converted my blog (a trivial example) to Foundation with an intention of spending time supporting tablets and mobile browsers. I spent maybe 10 minutes adding in the media queries and css tweaks and everything else fell into place.

I'm looking forward to using Foundation on bigger projects.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Paravel's jQuery plugins that make text and video flexible and responsive are definitely worthy of inclusion:

Lettering.js: <http://letteringjs.com/>

FitText: <http://fittextjs.com/>

FitVids.js: <http://fitvidsjs.com/></comment>


ValidatorJS/A quick validator implementation - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/pharzan/validatorJS <comment><USER2> If it meets the guidelines and want feedback, this might make a good "Show HN".

Guidelines: [https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html)</comment>


Tesla Strikes Deal To Keep Dealerships In New York - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/28/tesla-strikes-deal-to-keep-dealerships-in-new-york/ <comment><USER2> Just goes to show you - it's sometimes better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

Imagine if Tesla hadn't opened stores in these locations - they would be indefinitely, unconditionally barred from doing so unless they had flouted the auto dealer rules and went forward with the stores regardless. Now they have a foothold. When you realize that the stakeholders (in this case, New York State Politicians) have a political interest in you flouting their rules then the rules just don't seem that rul-y anymore.

It's also what's going to get their foot in Texas, as well.

Elon Musk is one smart dude.

<comment><USER3> I agree. It's like this fred wilson blog post. The genie is out of the bottle.

[http://avc.com/2013/10/the-genie-and-the-bottle/](http://avc.com/2013/10/the- genie-and-the-bottle/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> How is requiring a car dealer to sell through a dealership beneficial to anyone besides the dealership lobby which spent millions of dollars in getting that law in place? This is why I freely support any company attempting to disrupt any industry that uses the US gov't to create laws limiting direct competition (Healthcare for example).

Politicians who stand up for this kind of nonsense should be ashamed.

<comment><USER5> These days, it's not.

Originally, it was beneficial to the manufacturers to let franchisees take the risk of opening new storefronts. The franchise laws were put in place to stop manufacturers from undercutting their own franchises once the market was established.

<comment><USER6> That sounds so odd. If franchisees were worried about that, then the manufacturer could sign a contract agreeing not to operate. Why does it need to be coded into law?

<comment><USER7> And when the manufacturer undercuts you and you're already bankrupt by the time the court case that the manufacturer's spendy lawyers will drag out long past your ability to pay...what then?

<comment><USER6> You're basically arguing that any contract between power-imbalanced parties needs to be written into law.

<comment><USER8> That's generally the case, yes. As one example technologists seem to like: California invalidates noncompete clauses at the level of state law, not through requiring every engineer to individually attempt to negotiate the noncompete clause out of their contract.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Certainly no one should expect this status quo to last for long. The dealers will keep lobbying to kick Tesla out, and Tesla will keep lobbying to lift this restriction.

In that light, this is an interesting long-term strategic move on Musk's part. It arms him with a "we've been selling in this state for X years with Y thousand satisfied customers, so how can this be so problematic that it needs restriction?" argument for his lobbying efforts a few years down the line.

</comment><comment><USER10> Wow so this seems actually worse than outlawing Tesla because what they are doing is giving Tesla major privileges over any future competition. Seems very monopolistic.

<comment><USER11> Well, as is often the case, they got theirs. They cleared the hurdle, now barriers to entry help instead of hurt them.

<comment><USER12> With Communism, a person's job is determined by an external power. How is the dealer network telling Tesla that they can't sell their car in NY not an example of communism?

Put down that microscope citizen. I've already told you, you are a cashier, cashiers don't use microscopes. Microscopes are for scientists. You can't be a scientist. Get back to your station. Don't make me taze you.

<comment><USER13> "With Communism, people breathe air. Since people breathe air in New York, how is New York not Communist?"

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Can someone with more knowledge of the (outdated) franchise law explain why Tesla can't/hasn't created their own dealerships (that officially aren't Tesla owned), but sell only Teslas?

<comment><USER15> Because, under the same state laws, that's illegal as well.

"It shall be unlawful for any franchisor to ... acquire any interest in any motor vehicle dealer in this state ... or to use any subsidiary corporation, affiliated corporation, captive finance source or any other controlled corporation, partnership, association or person to accomplish what would otherwise be unlawful conduct under this article"

\-- NY Vehicle and Traffic Laws, Article 17A, Franchised Motor Vehicle Dealer Act, S 463 Unfair Business Practices by Franchisors

There'd be little point to having the rest of the law on the books if it were so easy to work around.

Note that "franchisor" as defined in that law includes all manufacturers, whether they sell franchises or not. IANAL.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> These laws are crazy. They work for Tesla currently, but what about the future and future direct-to-customer sales models by other companies?

When Tesla grows, they will need more than 5 dealerships in order to reach more of the population.

When a new competitor tries to sell direct, these rules will make it impossible for them to compete on an even playing field with Tesla and therefore have to revert to the old dealership model. Win for Tesla, loss for free markets and competition.

</comment><comment><USER3> This is a great compromise for Tesla. The dealerships don't fear Tesla, they fear their manufacturers will start selling directly over the internet and cut them out of the loop. This should pacify their fears but still allow Tesla to operate. Long term, I suspect, this will be overturned, but for now it's a great compromise.

</comment><comment><USER17> As a bemused European looking at this situation. Did a new U.S. manufacturer, just agree to sell cars in mob town?

<comment><USER18> It is interesting that the US -- a champion of Laissez-faire in many other areas -- is the only country in the world with such laws.

[regardless of whether one likes the idea of Laissez-faire or not, the contrast is interesting]</comment></comment>


"I for one welcome our new computer overlords" - <AUTHOR> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2_fM6e9AiA

<comment><AUTHOR> Part 2 where that quote is actually found: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHGu0-p-3QQ></comment>


iPhone's "Field Test" debug screen: Dial *3001#12345#* for real signal strength - <AUTHOR> https://ma.ttias.be/iphones-field-test-debug-screen-dial-300112345-for-the-real-signal-strength/

<comment><USER2> if you want to keep the numerical signal strength, just press the sleep wake button until the "slide to power off" appears then press and hold the home button to force quit the application and it will remain on the screen.

</comment><comment><USER3> Feels as good as "discovering" *#06# on old Nokias!

</comment><comment><USER4> Does anyone know if this works in the USA? The article is from a domain in Belgium. Plus, any brave Guinea Pigs? I'm reluctant to muck with my iPhone.

<comment><USER2> yeah it works on all iPhones.</comment></comment>


How do you look for jobs? - <AUTHOR>

Just curious on some discussion about how the HN community goes about searching for a new job. Whether it is via networking, linkdedin or various job boards I was just curious how everyone went about it. <comment><USER2> 1\. The best way to get a job is through your own current network. Even if you have never done 'networking,' realize you already have a network. Your classmates from high school and college, parents of your friends, friends of friends, people from your community, your neighbors, your professors, your professors friends, etc. They are all part of your network. See what they are all up to and see if they can recommend you to a job or introduce you to someone who can. Companies love to hire people that they already know. I'd love to see someone argue against this claim. 2\. If you exhausted your current network, then maybe you should build your network. Make a list of jobs/companies you'd want to work for, and instead of blindly applying to those jobs, try to meet up with someone who has the job you want, or works at the company you want to work at. It's best to get an intro, but cold-calling also works (although you're probably going to get a lot of no responses, you only need that one person who can help you get a job). Tell them that you want to know more about their job/company, and ask them if they could possibly spare some time to give advice. Offer to buy them coffee. You'd be surprised how many people are willing to help people who want advice. Once you have built a relationship, its much more likely they can recommend or refer you to a job.

Can you get a job by simply applying to a job? Of course, it happens all the time. But networking always improves your odds.

</comment><comment><USER3> I don't know how others do it, but I would rank it in this order:

Personal network - recruiters - apply directly

You (and others) are welcome to contest this order, as I am typing it in a bit of a rush.

<comment><USER4> What is your experience with recruiters like? I'm about to move to a new city and got hooked up with a recruiter through a friend. He seems very well connected and professional but I'm a little nervous about putting my job prospects in his hands. Anything I should be wary of?

<comment><USER5> I'm not the poster you replied to but I've worked with a couple recruiters. A good recruiter is a useful tool in your job hunt. They have a lot more info than you will. At most you'll be looking for work every few years. They're constantly dealing with the recruiting process at different companies. They can help time things to get you multiple offers at the same time. This puts you in a good negotiating position. They can also do the negotiating for you. They usually get paid a percentage based on your salary so it's in their interest to get you a good rate.

You should also continue to look for work on your own. I wouldn't just use a recruiter. Keep them informed about where you're applying. They should always ask before sending your résumé out but this helps them know where to focus their efforts. If you don't like working with them or lose trust in them just stop working with them. Good recruiters get a lot of business from referrals (that's how they got your business) so they want to get a deal that'll make you happy even if it doesn't make them quite as much money as another position would. In my last job hunt I ended up taking the lowest paying offer I received because it was a better fit in other ways. That cost the recruiter money in the short term but I'd recommend him to people I know if they're looking.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> So far, I have got all my previous jobs through contacts and friends.

However, I am trying to get a remote job now, and since I don't know anyone who works in these organizations, it is turning out to be my first real job search.

<comment><USER7> Have you tried weworkremotely.com, or searching for "remote" in the monthly HN "Who is Hiring?" threads?

<comment><USER8> There's also wfh.io

<comment><USER6> Ah, I haven't heard of this one before. Thanks, I will have a look.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Real life networking will produce you the jobs fastest. When I increased my presence at local events, even events not at all centered around recruiting / hiring, there was a huge increase in job chatter.

</comment><comment><USER10> What is your best chance if you lack a personal network or your personal network is in no place to help? Assuming there are no local events or they are out of reach (geographically or time-based)

</comment><comment><USER11> [https://news.ycombinator.com/jobs](https://news.ycombinator.com/jobs)</comment>


Ask YC: Feedback on our new app. - <AUTHOR> http://www.facebook.com/apps/application.php?id=39596755041

<comment><AUTHOR> Given what we learned from our last app and what we gathered from the many of you we've talked to who built them before, we decided to try another. Your feedback was helpful last time, so I thought I'd ask once again.

It's a football game in which you build up the best team. Any thoughts would be very much appreciated.

<comment><USER2> MUCH BETTER! Using Mob Wars as a template was a wise choice.

Still the invite component needs to be pushed harder. You aren't enforcing team size requirements for running missions and you aren't rewarding people for building rosters of real players.

OH, and you forgot to put in Offerpal. This is a great game for Offerpal. :)

<comment><USER2> I see you do reward $10 per hour per fan when you buy a hat logo deal. Not very obvious though and encouraging them to get more "fans" when they buy the hat deal would good. :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Ah, good thinking. You also get paid more when you play games, which I should also make clear. Maybe I'll put a description in the fan page, and also in the challenge page.

Thanks for the advice.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Seems cool. It does get a bit repetitive after a while though. I also see a blank screen when I click on "Fans" and "Front Office"

How does having a higher level affect anything? I can train players and get more equipment but in the very end all I have to show is my level and standings?

Some thoughts:

\- If you create your team from your friends, let them contribute to their "player" somehow

\- Potentially have some type of tournament/playoffs

\- Potentially have actual games that can be used to upgrade skills. Pay a certain amount of your money to play a game that can increase your QB passing either 1 or 2 points depending how you do. That will add some more interaction. Or you can have the user just opt for the safe approach and get the minimum or average.

<comment><AUTHOR> Are you still seeing blank screens? That shouldn't be happening at all.

Higher levels unlock more items. You can see that on the Office page, but maybe we should make that more noticeable. We'll have more things too once we integrate some future features.

At the very end, much like Mob Wars, you'll have various virtual items and such. We'll probably mix in achievements and trophies and the like you can win. I should think more about that stuff.

Interesting thought about the friends, I'll try to think of that. Might be a really good idea if we can come up with a good implementation.

Tournaments are in the plans.

We've got some other unique forms of training coming up. I'll think about that though.

Thanks for all the great ideas.

<comment><USER3> I'm able to see all the pages now although I wasn't able to over the weekend. I could see the unlocking feature now but without the office page I wasn't able to see anything - only what the other teams had bought.

I've got another idea for you that may make things pretty interesting and may not be too hard to implement depending on the way you are handling the game simulation now:

Display the results of the game (similar to a game cast type of feature). It would be interesting to see how well the various players performed and how the skill investment has paid off.

I have no clue how you handled the simulation but if it's using standard football rules I imagine you randomly choose a play, then randomly choose the player, then randomly calculate the odds of success based on the player's skills (as well as QB if passing play) and the skills of the opposing defense.

I tend to be more data driven than most but this seems like a pretty interesting feature to me. It will also get people to stay more on the app instead of going somewhere else while the energy/stamina regenerates.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I like the concept. If it does whats advertised and without too many bugs it sounds like something a LOT of sports buffs would like. So it looks like a good idea with a lot of potential... beyond that I have not yet tried it myself, but I intend to.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. Please tell me if it lives up to its promise.

The hardest part is the game mechanics, pricing stuff, payouts, etc. Making it so people can advance, but not so fast that they get bored. Making them want to come back, but still giving them some stuff to do now.

It's a tightrope and has made me appreciate Mob Wars and other video games more.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I'm curious - at what MAU level will the game "break even"?

<comment><AUTHOR> What do you mean by that?

<comment><USER5> Monthly active users, what level do you need to reach to meet your revenue goals, if you have any. You don't have to answer, I'm more interested to know how you've thought about it.

<comment><AUTHOR> Oh, I don't really know. It's too soon to tell what expenses will be like for it, but they should be pretty low, and I think that if the game becomes popular we can monetize fairly well. I've heard some revenue numbers typical for a game that make me think 100k of them would be pretty profitable.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Aircraft Carrier USS Enterprise to Be Decommissioned - <AUTHOR> http://www.forces.tv/05981801 <comment><AUTHOR> "If I were human, I believe my response would be ..." [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGMObdYRJHs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGMObdYRJHs)</comment>


Gophercon 2014 Talks - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/gophercon/2014-talks

<comment><USER2> Opening and closing keynote slides:

"Hello, Gophers!": [http://talks.golang.org/2014/hellogophers.slide#1](http://talks.golang.org/2014/hellogophers.slide#1)

"Go for gophers": [http://talks.golang.org/2014/go4gophers.slide#1](http://talks.golang.org/2014/go4gophers.slide#1)

</comment><comment><USER3> Are there videos anywhere?

<comment><USER4> I believe they will be posted in a couple of weeks</comment></comment>


Glowforge launches consumer-grade laser cutter - <AUTHOR> http://glowforge.com <comment><USER2> This looks like a decent laser but I thought I'd post a few thoughts about this package which might give a potential buyer pause.

First, the main unique feature I see is the built in camera which apparently gives you a preview of cut/engraved finished part on your computer screen with the material as it's positioned inside the machine. This also (apparently, it's not clear), allows you to correct for misaligned material inside the machine. These are nice features, but it's perfectly possible to cut and engrave without them.

One big problem with operating this inside your home is the fumes. Now, they do mention that the base unit needs to be vented to the outside. What this means is that your neighbors (and you, if the wind is right) will have to smell the exhaust from this machine. It's not a nice smell if you're cutting acrylic. Though I personally got used to the scent of vaporized acrylic over time, your neighbors might not be so inclined.

So they also offer a $500 add-on ($1000 regular price) to filter the air so you can exhaust inside. The add on is smaller than the already small laser cutter. This is quite a feat and I would really like to know how they got it to work. You see, the fumes/smoke from a laser cutter can really clog up a particulate filter pretty quickly. Wood produces wood smoke, and acrylic vapor is quite sticky when it settles. So you have to have a powerful pump to draw the fumes through the filter. Then you need a good amount of activated charcoal to get rid of the smelly stuff.

If you look at the professional model air filters, they're $2000+ and you have to buy filters and media regularly.

Laser cutters get messy inside, so if you buy one, be prepared to clean it out regularly to keep the optical and mechanical components clean.

Problems with operation can START A FIRE, so be prepared to watch the machine 100% of the time while it's cutting.

<comment><USER3> (founder/CEO here) I vented a 60W chinese laser out my window for a year in the suburbs, but I've learned never to underestimate what neighbors may complain complain about. The air filter is definitely a good idea. If you do the math on the volume, and compare it to the actual volume of the filter of e.g. a Purex, you'll find it's similar. Almost half of the volume of the Purex is in the fans or open airspace; we have the advantage of a ton of airflow from the Glowforge itself, so the filter needs proportionately less. We also have a sealed (basic) or almost-sealed (pro) case so it's easier to build up negative pressure and move the exhaust through.

Cleaning stinks, and wrecks alignment - the tube and turning mirrors are completely sealed, including the tube output, so there's just one flat window to wipe clean (and it unscrews for easy replacement). The head has a window and purge air to keep it clean too.

We're mitigating a lot of the risk of fire by avoiding trouble situations in software (e.g. not cutting a piece of material where the dimensions make it an effective wick, detecting obstacles on the bed, accelerators to detect problems quickly) but you're right that you don't want to run it unattended.

<comment><USER4> Is it true the machine requires connection to internet or your cloud to cut or engrave? I was about to order a Pro until I read this in the comments. I expect to be able to use this machine with my laptop running some program and "send to laser", no internet connection required.

<comment><USER3> Cofounder/CEO here, just finished with Makercon and catching up.

The Glowforge does require a cloud connection to operate. We use cloud vs. local a host of reasons including the motion planner, alignment, image recognition, and faster feature development.

But based on the excellent point made here that nobody wants a paperweight if we fall off the globe, we decided to make a change. We're going to do a GPL release of the firmware so people can do whatever they want, including porting offline functionality. You buy it, it's yours, you should get to do what you want with it.

[http://glowforge.com/gpl-licensed-open-source-firmware- for-g...](http://glowforge.com/gpl-licensed-open-source-firmware-for- glowforge/)

Thanks for the great feedback.

<comment><USER5> So, further questions:

1\. When you mention planner, etc, does this imply the cloud service is involved not just in a prep phase, but actively during the control loop while the device is cutting? The latter would be worrisome to me.

2\. Will you be able to elaborate at all on the functionality of the firmware (and/or provide protocol documentation for it) prior to ship? I'm not sure how comfortable I am pre-ordering without understanding just how much work there is between the device as delivered and an actual, functional, standalone cutter.

I see on the blog that modifying the firmware invalidates warranty coverage. This seems like another argument for protocol docs and/or ability to usefully have at least one cut path that does not tie you to an online service or nuke your warranty.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> It's not just cloud connected, it's cloud dependent. It requires internet access and their cloud services to function at all. That's kind of disappointing.

<comment><USER7> It's not just disappointing, it's stupefying. Why would my drill (or my compressor or my band saw) need to be on the Internet in order to function ?

Also, there's a lot of overlap between people who have the extra space/building/shop to properly run equipment like this and people that have spotty rural Internet.

<comment><USER8> It probably has to do with how people/VCs don't see selling hardware alone as a super profitable model on it's own, and want a cloud dependence to sell you more stuff or to sell your data.

<comment><USER9> The things that they show (running a web site with lots of UX, slicing, image processing, materials data, catalog of customizable designs, etc.) fit pretty well into a powerful web site/service with a small CPU in the laser cutter. Adding a powerful CPU, etc, would add to cost and complexity - it is much easier to run a web site than to support thousands,of users' local installs, etc. Though i agree that makes the device dependent on their service, that's becoming a pretty common tradeoff these days.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I have a 40W hobbyist laser cutter. It's fun, and a great tool for various projects, like making board games[1,2]. That said, sometimes materials inside the machine catch fire, and sometimes the beam reflects or dwells on a section of the metal enclosure. It's interesting that they've chosen to make the entire (?) enclosure out of plastic, itself a combustible material. I get why they went with plastic (cheaper to fabricate once you have the molds, lighter to ship, perhaps better dimensional accuracy than cheap sheet metal), but it does not seem particularly safe. The also seem to gloss over the need to ventilate the machine. Plastic fumes are nasty to breathe, glue-bonded wood (think thin plywood) can release formaldehyde fumes, leather may be dyed with heavy metals. What the laser doesn't cause to combust cleanly, it vaporizes. You don't want those emissions in your house of office, and you want them vented away from the optical components as quickly as possible so there is no deposition onto mirror or lens surfaces.

Another benefit of metal enclosures is shielding the power supplies of these things. High-voltage laser power supplies are noisy, and when you PWM them, they can cause quite a bit of interference. Metal enclosures at least help to attenuate RF emissions.

The "macro camera" is a clever addition for closed-loop optical control (if it is being used for that). Reminds me of attaching an optical mouse sensor the the lens sled.

1\. [https://igcdn-photos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak- xfp1/t51.28...](https://igcdn-photos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak- xfp1/t51.2885-15/e15/10549813_673074649438401_1078246007_n.jpg)

2\. Make your own Carcassonne tiles! [http://dev.tia.io/carcassonne_shading/](http://dev.tia.io/carcassonne_shading/)

<comment><USER11> What unit do you have? I've been thinking about getting one.

<comment><USER10> I have an older one from Full Spectrum[1], from when they were adding their own control PCBs to generic units imported from China. The newer ones they have look nicer. There are a few other options on the market now, so it's probably worth shopping around. Larger cutting areas are nice, if for no other reason than that they limit the number of cuts you have to make on raw materials to get them to fit into the machine.

I made my own recirculating laser tube cooler using desktop PC water cooling components[2].

Beyond board games, they're useful for making tools for other projects. Need a drill guide with precise spacing? No problem, cut one out on the laser cutter. Need to prototype a coarse-pitch circuit board but don't want to wait for OSHPark or pay for a quick-turn fab? Ablate black paint off a Cu-clad board and chemical etch. Want to de-cap IC packages? You can, with some care. Interested in prototyping microfluidic structures? Sandwich some cut sheets of double-sided tape between acrylic sheet. Need to make a quick enclosure for a project? Design a box [3,4]. Cut the sides out of acrylic, and bond with dichloromethane (with ventilation!). It's great for making fixture components for things like robotics since you an easily include holes for machine screws.

They're also fun for cutting leather, cloth, etching aluminum laptops, making gifts, etc.

If you don't have access to nice commercial CAD software, DraftSight is a free AutoCAD clone that works fine for 2D drawings[5]. Otherwise, Inkscape works well for 2D, and for 3D, Rhino[6] has an affordable educational license that permits commercial use.

1\. [https://fslaser.com/Products/Lasers](https://fslaser.com/Products/Lasers)

2\. [https://github.com/tomkinsc/Laser- Cooler](https://github.com/tomkinsc/Laser-Cooler)

3\. [http://boxmaker.connectionlab.org/](http://boxmaker.connectionlab.org/)

4\. [http://www.makercase.com/](http://www.makercase.com/)

5\. [http://www.3ds.com/products-services/draftsight-cad- software...](http://www.3ds.com/products-services/draftsight-cad- software/free-download/)

6\. [https://www.rhino3d.com/](https://www.rhino3d.com/)

<comment><USER12> I have their 5th-generation machine (now just called their "H-series" machine) with the 45 watt upgrade, and am pretty happy with it so far. Their software has a few quirks, but nothing I can't work around.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> In the video, at about 13:40 they reveal that to print you have to use the web interface which runs "On Googles Cloud".

I would not like the interface to my own printer to be "In the Google cloud". Does that mean when the company goes out of business, the printer is bricked?

And right after, they admit that they plan adding paid services. Oh oh. How will thesed paid services be announced? I can imagine how. Whenever I want to print, this thing will bug me to pay for some fancy addon.

And privacy? Goes right out of the window. Everything I print would go through all kinds of hands. The manufacturer of this printer, Google, my carrier and who knows who.

And what about security? This is probably a full blown computer they want me to give access to my lan and internet connection. Who guarantees it gets security updates?

<comment><AUTHOR> Good question, I _think_ the ideas is the exact opposite -- you're not depending on Glowforge UI to be backed by a startups servers, the software runs on google cloud instead. Pros and cons, obviously, but I think the main pro is (like a Tesla) the machine's performance and usability can be improved without you installing any new software. As far as dependencies go, google's probably the best possible choice.

<comment><USER14> > you're not depending on Glowforge UI to be backed by a startups servers, the > software runs on google cloud instead.

What? Who is going to pay that bill? For example, Glowforge goes out of business... Google isn't going to continue to host and maintain that software out of the kindness of their hearts.

> but I think the main pro is (like a Tesla) the machine's performance and > usability can be improved without you installing any new software.

What does the UI being web-based, and "in the cloud" have to do with it's firmware?

For example, if the UI wasn't hosted on some google server, instead existed within the device accessible via WiFi (like a router) nothing you've said here would be any different... other than the user being able to decide themselves if they _want_ their device updated.

<comment><USER15> A bit off-topic, but you gave me an idea: What if Google _did_ guarantee to host stuff forever when startups go out of business? It would eliminate customers' reservations in cases like this, and hence eliminate business reservations about going all-in on cloud services. The increased business could potentially more than cover Google's cost.

The trick would be the care and feeding of the software. But as the industry moves to more immutable infrastructure -- especially stuff like AWS lambda and JAWS -- this will become less of an issue.

<comment><USER16> >It would eliminate customers' reservations in cases like this

No it wouldn't. I still don't want to depend on a remote service to use an alliance this expensive. Internet connections can be unreliable.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Dan's story about making a wallet with the laser is amusing:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=292&v=0R3mMUsHFvU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=292&v=0R3mMUsHFvU)

"No, I have a laser!"

<comment><USER18> I feel like that's almost the answer to anything.

<comment><USER19> Only true if you have a laser and don't fully understand what's possible with a hammer.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> I was very interested until I saw this blog post:

[http://glowforge.com/our-new-advisor-jennifer- lawton/](http://glowforge.com/our-new-advisor-jennifer-lawton/)

If you have been following the whole Makerbot Industries (and then Stratasys) debacle, seeing the name of Jennifer Lawton might give you pause.

I think I'm going to sit this one out.

<comment><USER21> > If you have been following the whole Makerbot Industries (and then > Stratasys) debacle, seeing the name of Jennifer Lawton might give you pause.

For those of us who haven't been, can you give a TL;DR version of why this is significant?

<comment><USER20> The TL;DR is that she was part of creating a toxic environment within the company, shipped a product they knew was defective (Makerbot fifth generation), misled the shareholders (of Stratasys) and ultimately cost Stratasys hundreds of millions.

For the slightly longer version the class action lawsuit conatins a lot more detail: [http://www.adafruit.com/pdfs/makerbot/classaction.pdf](http://www.adafruit.com/pdfs/makerbot/classaction.pdf)

You can also check out Glassdoor reviews: [http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Makerbot- Reviews-E480203.ht...](http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Makerbot- Reviews-E480203.htm)

I can confirm that the Makerbot 5gen is a defective product. We have one at the office gathering dust after trying to make it work for a few months. It is beyond hope.

<comment><USER22> _... shipped a product they knew was defective (Makerbot fifth generation) ..._

Yikes. Clogged extruders and many software problems:

[http://nicklievendag.com/makerbot-replicator-5th- generation-...](http://nicklievendag.com/makerbot-replicator-5th-generation- review/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> dlowe-net Is there some strategy for customers once the cloud servers shut down? The company doesn't have to go out of business - perhaps five years have passed and you've moved on to more awesome models. While your business might feel that customers should upgrade to the newest, it's not great that they would be forced to.

For instance, when Steam was first released Valve promised that should the authentication servers go down, they would ensure that the games would stay functional without them. This was an important point that contributed to its success.

<comment><USER23> Open sourcing local backup server software would be a cool move.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> So in a followup, Glowforge offered to release the firmware of this 3d printer as GPL. That is a ballsy and incredibly great move. It also helps negate the issues of their cloud service going away, I have an expensive paperweight issue.

See: [http://glowforge.com/gpl-licensed-open-source-firmware- for-g...](http://glowforge.com/gpl-licensed-open-source-firmware-for- glowforge/)

<comment><USER25> The thing is that their firmware is ultra-lightweight. One of the things they're proud of is that the firmware is _extremely_ thin and basically shunts control signals directly from the cloud service. The cloud service does _everything_.

The expensive paperweight issue still stands.

<comment><USER9> I am not sure that this would be the case. If all the firmware has to do is process G code, that's oh well understood problem, and runs on Arduino's, and whatever is grilling this printer has to be at least as powerful as we oh well understood problem, and runs on Arduino's, and whatever is grilling this printer has to be at least as powerful as Arduino, and he clearly has four more storage since it can buffer print streams coming across the Internet which is a lot harder then coming in local connection. The only limitation I see is that the device does not have a USB port, which means that even if you're printing off-line you're going through Wi-Fi. If the company went under, I'm wondering if the answer wouldn't be to reverse engineer enough of the server-side to print, and run a copy of that locally, without having to change the printer's firmware.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> I am surprised it can cut paper without causing ignition.

I wonder how many of the projects shown were created using the "basic" ($2K) version and how many were produced using the pro ($4K) version?

I will say their early bird prices make these compelling for small business/etsy setups. However once they go to full price, I don't know if that will remain as true. It would take a LOT of wallets to break even at a $4K buy-in for the "basic" version.

PS - We live in an exciting world. Between 3D printers and these, you really can do more at home than ever before. And this type of technology is bringing tooling prices down massively even if you have it fabricated.

PPS - Looking at the material costs on their page, and looking at how much these items sell for on etsy right now ($39 inc. free postage), you'd have to sell over one hundred hardback skins for a Macbook Pro just to break even (and that's ignoring many of the hidden costs of running a business, like accountant, licensing, your salary, etc).

<comment><USER27> > I am surprised it can cut paper without causing ignition.

As a kid, I had a lot of difficulty trying to ignite paper with lenses under the sun (white notebook paper). I then gave up and used the lenses for cutting instead. So I'm not that surprised.

To this day I wonder what would be the correct set of conditions that would make it easier to combust. I remember trying black paint - that only made the cutting part easier.

<comment><USER28> I had really no problem using a magnifying glass to burn printer paper as a kid, as long as it was the summer, trying to do that in the winter was for some reason impossible.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> It's a very polished product, and the "pen" mode is a cool idea. To me, they're targeting an odd demographic, Makers who can afford expensive toys / tools, but also want a very friendly, hands-off interface. I would have expected the Maker camp to be ordering ~ $700 40-50W laser cutters from Shenzhen. I suppose the Glowforge would be pretty great in a school setting, though.

<comment><USER30> I'm a maker. Tell me more about this $700 Shenzhen laser cutter? I googled it and I'm coming up with a few things, but only very small $400 units and very big expensive units.

<comment><USER31> You can also get a membership to techshop.ws where they have cutters among MANY other items.

[https://www.noisebridge.net/](https://www.noisebridge.net/) hacker space on Mission in SF also had a fairly large 40W cutter... It was not setup for a while - but I think its working now... and you can use that one pretty much free (donate to the space though is a good idea)

<comment><USER32> Laser cutters are by far the most popular tools at tech shop. Reservations typically fill up 2-3 weeks in advance. Having a hobby machine at home for smaller or recurring jobs could save a lot of time.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> @danshapiro - Thanks for giving a fantastic resolution to the issue of the cloud software. I think that was a big hang up for many of us.

Can you expand on the benefits of the Pro model? The usefulness of the included air filter and pass through slots have been explained on your site, but the laser and cooling upgrade aren't really ever discussed.

5W more power doesn't seem like very much of an upgrade (12.5% more power for 60% more cost). What does the Pro model's upgraded laser and cooling specs mean in terms of "usefulness": cuttable material thickness, cutting times, duty cycle, etc?

Also, what's the expected life span of the charcoal filters, HEPA filters, laser tube, and any other consumables? Are replacements for these available only through Glowforge, or are they industry standard / Over The Counter parts?

</comment><comment><USER34> Laser cutters generate smoke (with possibly toxic particles). They have air extraction attached to them for that reason. No air extraction on this model?

<comment><USER35> I came to say the same thing.

My lab uses an industrial laser cutter a lot, and perspex fumes stink. We have a large extraction unit to capture the fumes.

Filters only capture a limited range of compounds too. Important to always check whether the filter can handle the material before cutting.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> One of their sample images appears to be of the "Below the Boat" series.

[http://www.belowtheboat.com/](http://www.belowtheboat.com/)

I've given those maps as gifts, and they're very nice quality. Is there any relationship between your companies? Are they using your laser cutter?

<comment><USER3> (ceo/cofounder here) There are lots of folks doing bathymetric maps with lasers; I don't know who was first to it. We generated ours from scratch from NOAA data, but owe them (or whoever did it first) a debt of inspiration.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> It calls itself a 3D laser printer. It's a 2D laser cutter.

<comment><USER38> It doesn't just cut. It has variable focus of 13mm, allowing it to carve out any desired shape within that range.

<comment><USER25> Fine, cutter/engraver.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> I want... NO.... I NEED this! The price seems surprisingly reasonable for the amount of household items you could create that you "Forgot to get from the store."

<comment><USER3> (cofounder here)

Thank you! I was lucky enough to have an industrial laser in my garage for a few years and was amazed at what it could do, and how miserably hard it was to do it. Hopefully we'll let lots of folks experience the first and none the second.

<comment><USER39> I hope so! As a kid, this would have realized so many dreams! Going on my list of tools to get!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> After watching that video I feel like they should do a promo with Etsy. Also can't help but think about Cory Doctorow's "Makers", sci-fi being slowly ushered into our lives :)

</comment><comment><USER41> Someone please connect this with a Microsoft Kinect and build a robot turret on treads for eliminating pests such as mosquitos.

<comment><USER23> You'd like this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU2kbghz85I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU2kbghz85I)

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> I'd be interested to hear the benefits over the successful Kickstarter[1] LazerBlade[2], which looks much simpler but is less than half the price at retail.

[1] [https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1537608281/lazerblade-t...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1537608281/lazerblade- the-affordable-laser-cutter-engraver)

[2] [https://darklylabs.com/emblaser- overview/](https://darklylabs.com/emblaser-overview/)

</comment><comment><USER43> This is a pretty neat product. I especially like the continuous-feed idea.

I'd really like to do stuff that involves stainless. What would be the cheapest option capable of doing some reasonable sheet stainess? My wallet is cringing at the mere concept, but maybe I could talk a local hackerspace into doing it or something.

I've been meaning to build a CNC mini-mill for a while. I think that seems like a more practical option for stuff that doesn't require intricate cuts. And definitely more affordable.

<comment><USER44> A CO2 laser will not cut stainless - it won't even mark steel unless you coat it with a special ceramic.

You're looking at a very very large fiber / YAG laser to cut it. A low power YAG laser can engrave steel - commercially these start at about $30k

<comment><USER45> Technically, the statement "CO2 laser will not cut stainless steel" is not accurate. Stainless steel is commonly cut by 500W-5kW CO2 lasers, see:

[https://www.coherent.com/Applications/index.cfm?fuseaction=f...](https://www.coherent.com/Applications/index.cfm?fuseaction=forms.AppLevel2&AppLevel2ID=62)

[https://vimeo.com/106264555](https://vimeo.com/106264555)

But it's true that sub-100W CO2 lasers are not even remotely capable of cutting steel.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> Looks like a great toy until you go through comments here. Honestly would have bought this for my woman, since she's into crafts and stuff, but cloud-only cutting/engraving, comments on fumes and filters + dealing with customs (if they even shipping int) quickly changed my mind. I've seen laser engravers on kickstarter before, hope to see more machines that do not require clouds to cut/etch a damn thing.

<comment><USER47> I really feel like if there are enough of these out there and the company somehow decides to brick all of them (not that likely IMHO) that someone will be able to come up with an open source solution for controlling it. I'd like to know what their privacy policy is but I'm not particularly worried about it becoming a multi-thousand dollar hunk of plastic.

I do wonder why the pre-order price is SO much cheaper than the actual price. At pre-order it's a still. At regular price it's kinda a bit meh.

<comment><USER48> They want to motivate interested buyers to pre-order. The "actual" price is FUD.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER49> How is a 40W laser Class I, but the 45W laser is Class IV?

<comment><USER50> You can get Class I by preventing human access, I'm guessing the Pro can't have the same interlocks for some design reason.

<comment><AUTHOR> I think the pro is 'feed-able', wonder if that's it.

<comment><USER50> Yeah, I just saw that on their youtube video; the sides can remain open during operation to allow etching/cutting of materials larger than the enclosure. That means human access is possible, so therefore the class IV.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> @danshapiro Questions : 1) Why could you not have done this with a quad core i7 box running ubuntu? The amount of time it will take to ship information from my box to google cloud is longer than what can be done on my box. What exact monetization strategy made you keep software/data in the cloud? 2) Any ETA on when the machines will start shipping? Assuming you now know how many people ordered already.

</comment><comment><USER52> With the leather satchel they show, isn't the difficult really in stitching it?

<comment><USER53> The laser cuts the holes perfectly-- so you do have to stitch it, but there's no skill involved-- just time. :-)

</comment></comment><comment><USER54> Disappointed in the pricing tactics, and doubt the "50% off" is anything but typical sales bull.

Back in Feb in an interview with Shapiro in the NYT it was stated "desktop laser cutter that it plans to sell for around $2,000". No mention of this being a special 50% off price.

And in May this year on geekdad.com, Shapiro "wants the price to be under $2,500".

Now it emerges that this is actually the "50% off" price for 23 days only, and the actual full price will be $4000 for the basic model?

It begs the question: what happened between May and now that the price of the basic unit has doubled? What happened to the planned "$2000 laser printer"???

Or is the "50% off" just a lie to generate more initial sales, and later we'll see "new fantastic discount slashed from $4000 down to an unbelievable $2000"?

I see a lot of this sales tactic in online tech products. Permanent discount prices, there's always a "deal" happening. The RRP is some mythical price that is never actually reached.

</comment><comment><USER55> I can't count the number of times a fire has started in my university woodshop because of smoldering debris and general lack of safety knowledge with laser cutters. I would assume this is something to be aware of with the Glowforge but I don't see any safety information on your webpage. Is this something to still worry about with 40W and 45W lasers?

</comment><comment><USER25> This is going to be _epic_ for schools and print-shops. I think only hardcore enthusiasts will want a home-home version of this tech, but I've spent enough time with paper-cutters and cutting out letter shapes that this is really cool.

Also, the boardgame industry can prototype cards much better with this - printing out Catan-like hex-tiles and the like.

</comment><comment><USER56> That's a nice unit, and adding a camera is a big step forward. More CNC machines should have cameras to aid in alignment. I'd really like to have a camera with high magnification on a CNC mill, rigidly mounted a known distance from the spindle, and cross-hairs on the monitor.

</comment><comment><USER57> There's a (golang) gopher hidden in the promo video at second 42: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysCaqh38JVQ&t=42s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysCaqh38JVQ&t=42s)

</comment><comment><USER58> Thanks for the great discussion, I learned a ton of good info from this thread which cotributed to me deciding to take the plunge and preorder the basic Glowforce. I had hoped to go pro but between the poor US/CAD exchange rate and the rather high price of shipping to Canada I could just not budget for it. If anyone who is ordering wants to save us a $100 each, order through this referal link :) [http://glowforge.com/referred/?kid=H5xzt6](http://glowforge.com/referred/?kid=H5xzt6)

</comment><comment><USER59> $954 shipping cost to UK. Isn't it a bit high?

Also UK regulations says I need to be supervised to use a class 4 laser since I can point it to somewhere I shouldn't. I wonder if that's still valid for an enclosed product.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I ordered one, wish I could pick it up in person instead of paying the shipping. Particularly interested in seeing what one can do with just a pen and skipping the computer design stage...

</comment><comment><USER50> So I've seen danshapiro reply to a lot of comments here, but not a single one asking about whether the cloud access is necessary for this to operate. Does anyone know the answer?

</comment><comment><USER60> It looks like vaporware to me. What gives me pause is the sneaky way they present it as if it were a KickStarter project, but it's not. So all those people shelling out for the early release are not protected if they close up shop and disappear it seems to me. So many glowing promises, but will they be able to follow through on all of them? I dunno. I am skeptical. (I hope they do though, I seriously want this to be real).

</comment><comment><USER61> I'd like to quote a german comedian here:

"Never look into the laser with your remaining eye"

</comment><comment><USER62> Here is $100 off if you use this link to order: [http://glowforge.com/referred/?kid=QNUjZz](http://glowforge.com/referred/?kid=QNUjZz)

</comment><comment><USER63> Can this device cut metals and if so which ones and of what thickness?

<comment><USER64> A 40W CO2 laser will not cut metals, period.

Save yourself the wait and spend $395 on eBay to get a much more sturdy version shipped to your door. It's not perfect but at that price, imperfection is forgivable.

<comment><USER63> OK. We have a laser cutter at work that will cut very thin metal stock but I don't know what its power is or anything else about it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER65> Awesome! I hope laser cutters (which IMHO is one of the most magical DIY tools there is) start getting the same sort of attention that 3D printers have been.

</comment><comment><USER66> Could you use this for single sided PCB printing?

<comment><USER17> In theory this process should work (it still requires etching as you can't cut copper with this laser):

[http://www.instructables.com/id/Custom-PCB-Prototyping- using...](http://www.instructables.com/id/Custom-PCB-Prototyping-using-a- Laser-Cutter/)

<comment><USER63> That seems like a lot more effort than traditional photoresist printing that you can do with an inkjet printer (or just freehand with a marker).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER67> Whats the purpose of the big button the device? I would have thought starting a print from your computer would turn it on.

<comment><USER68> It's the "the cloud can't activate a 40W cutting laser in your home by itself" button.

At least that's how it's explained more-or-less in one of the videos. Makes sense to ensure that the operator is in front of the machine and has everything properly loaded before firing the laser. Who knows how much of that is really intended as a security process...

</comment></comment><comment><USER47> Wonder what they are prepared to do for their initial run?? Looks like there has been /quite/ a response so far!

</comment><comment><USER69> Looks very nice, but I was a little disappointed that the sample gallery items did not have links to actual projects.

</comment><comment><USER70> Fuck, I hate not living in the US when things like this appear.

<comment><USER71> Worst part is that if I try to buy something like this in Brazil, it'll probably get apprehended by customs as a dangerous item.

<comment><USER2> If there are no importers/dealers in Brazil, this is a business opportunity to import machines from China.

<comment><USER27> An opportunity? Let's see.

There are lots of customs fees involved that are not considered taxes per-se. But let's ignore them and look at taxes:

You get a 60% import tax right off the bat (this applies over the product cost, the aforementioned fees AND shipping). Then, there's ICMS, which varies by state (let's say, 12%). There's also IPI, which is variable according to the product and I'm not sure where a laser cutter would fit in. Also PIS (1.65%), COFINS (7.6%) and IOF since it probably involves currency exchange (0.38%).

Speaking of that... there's the unfavorable exchange rate. Today, the real hit a high of BRL 4.23 for one USD. It was 2.50 something one year ago, and then the economy blew up.

I'm not going to the trouble of trying to calculate the final price, without the importer's markup, but it will be HIGH. Good luck marketing this thing to anything other than medium businesses. And that one year from now. You'll spend like an year incorporating your company and navigating the customs law mess.

There are other options, of course. Manufacturing locally would bypass a lot of taxes (and generate others). But then you could negotiate deals with local authorities in exchange for job creation and some strategic dinners. That sort of stuff. The opportunity cost of doing that is just huge and, by the time you managed all that, you'd be profitable in several other countries already.

Then you'll have to deal with the crappy transportation infrastructure. Forget shipping things by train, you'll have to use trucks. Delivery estimates of 30 business days are not uncommon at all.

My advice? Stay away from Brazil. Even more so this year. There's a reason investors are pulling money out of the country.

Disclaimer: I'm Brazilian.

<comment><USER71> > There's a reason investors are pulling money out of the country.

Fun fact, they mostly aren't anymore. (Go figure. I guess the country is so crazy that nobody knows what to do.) That isn't stopping the Real from falling anyway.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER72> It looks really amazing, but until it gets shipped and reviewed, it is just a video. I don't doubt they have prototypes nor I doubt their ability to ship, but once you do, then it is a real product.

</comment><comment><USER73> I spend a lot of time playing with a laser cutter (120w generic from China). A lot of the things that they talk about are quite cool, but I think that they do not show all the other parts that also require time and effort - although I do imagine that one of their value propositions is that they remove and/or simplify a lot of the processes and their complexities. One of the biggest issues I currently have is to generate a file that the laser cutter will like - it has to be a dxf with no sub layers or any linked files, or a old illustrator file (.ai version 8). Each "settings layer" has to have it's own distinct color, and sometimes if the colors are too close, they get merged into one. It can also be difficult to set the correct distance between the things that you want to engrave and the things that you want to cut - say you want to engrave a round logo on a round beer coaster: getting this perfect would take a lot of tweaking, as there are minor (yet visible) gaps and mis- alignments.

Next, to get the laser to cut properly also takes some tweaking. It's almost impossible to get a repeatable cut, since there are so many different factors that you need to take into play: the location of the item you're cutting on the bed, the temperature of the laser, the thickness and quality of your material, the accuracy of the auto-focus, and the settings themselves. If we look at the location for example, there is a huge difference between the top left corner - where the laser mirror is - and the bottom right corner. On one side your material will catch fire, on the other, it will only cut half way through. The material is also an important factor - if the material is even 0.2mm thicker on the top compared to the bottom (especially true for acrylic), then the laser will go through on one side, and won't go through on the other. For wood, tiny differences in it's quality can have a significant impact on the cut and especially on any engraving you do. With wood and similar, easily smudged materials, you also have this sort of 'caramelisation' after you cut and engrave - the degree of this effect depends on whether you used the right power or not (for which you also have to take into account the location, temperature, material quality,...). If you try to clean it off by hand or with a dry tissue, you will smudge it further and it will be difficult to remove. Instead, you have to painstakingly clean every piece you cut with an alcohol soaked cloth, which will remove most of these smudges - however it won't remove any burn marks. As per the burn marks, you get a lot more of them when you use a honeycomb bed compared to one which has a number of thin pieces of metal that stretch across with a few cm interval. The glowforge laser has this honeycomb bed, so expect your wood, cardboard and paper cutouts to have some of these burn marks if you don't pay very close attention to the power/speed of the cut. With plastic, getting a cleaner cut is a bit easier, but the fumes are horrendous. Also, if you don't cut through the whole thickness of the plastic the first time, and do another pass, the edges which you cut will have these 'micro-cracks' that dont' look very professional. Similarly, if you cut with too much power, your plastic edges will just melt and look quite bad. However, an advantage with plastic cutting is that you can clean it without too much difficulty, if you use sufficient alcohol you can get most burn marks away.

Engraving looks really nice when done with a laser cutting, but it does take some time until you figure out the correct settings for each material. I particularly _love_ engraved plastic and wood, the result (especially from genuine, extruded plexiglass) is beautiful and vey professional. A local public figure has had a picture of him holding a laser-engraved logo that I made him as his profile picture. Personally, I made some laser cut business cards, and they have absolutely blown away a lot of people - one person even told me that he stuck it to his wall for inspiration. I've also worked on laser cut tags/tokens that I give out as a promotional gift to people, and then they can use it as a fidelity card when they order things through my startup. I'm still working on perfecting these tags, but they required a lot of testing (over 30 different attempts just to get the QR code to engrave in a readable way), and I still haven't been able to generate them through software (right now they have to be put into illustrator before exporting them to the laser cutter). Lastly, engraving paper will likely incredibly difficult. On their page they have a sheet of paper that they engraved - I want to know how many attempts it took them before they got it to work - especially since the paper gets very easily caramelised. Maybe they had to use a special coating or used yellow/blue painters tape?

Despite all of this, laser cutters are extremely cool. The one we have cost $4000, and people have done lots of amazing things with it. Nowadays, you can get a 40w laser from ebay or aliexpress for a few hundred dollars, but do expect to spend weeks figuring out how to use it. The Glowforge looks like a pretty cool idea, however I don't know if they'll be able to survive at this price point + with the technology being at the state it is today. Their software (minus the part where it's cloud based), looks really powerful and very useful.

</comment><comment><USER19> Aaaaand we're done here.

<comment><USER74> Please don't post unsubstantive comments. That, combined with snark about new work, is something we try to avoid on HN. Of course, there's a legit point about cloud-connected products here too and you're welcome to comment about that substantively.

Edit: We detached this subthread from [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10273316](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10273316) and marked it off-topic.

It's true that there are other unsubstantive comments in the thread, and many more elsewhere on HN, but we can't reply to them all. Our intention is absolutely not to pick on anyone personally, but to provide signals to the community about the level of discourse we're all going for here.

</comment></comment><comment><USER75> I've worked with Laser cutters and, unless they have fixed things, you really don't want to be cutting items--especially paper and cardboard--without industrial "shop" ventilation. And many times I've set my work on fire.

</comment><comment><USER76> Still waiting for a lightsaber for taming my jungle of a yard. Is that so much to ask?</comment>


Mirror of OpenStreetMap databasefiles on IPFS - <AUTHOR> https://ipfs.io/ipns/ipfs.placebazaar.org <comment><AUTHOR> I've dedicated a server to download the openstreetmap database files weekly and push them on ipfs. The server then keeps the pins for that batch active and seeded.

Since the server is limited and it would be costly to enlarge it, I cannot keep seeding older versions, at the moment.

I've written a short reasoning and tooling article on steemit on how I'm managing this: [https://steemit.com/ipfs/@berkes/mirror-files-from-the- web-t...](https://steemit.com/ipfs/@berkes/mirror-files-from-the-web-to-ifps- with-wget-to-ipfs)

<comment><USER2> Please add a link to the mirrors list on [https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Planet.osm#Downloading](https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Planet.osm#Downloading) as well.

<comment><AUTHOR> Will do. Thanks for the reminder!</comment></comment></comment>


Finland capital city turns itself into a CaaS product to attract developers - <AUTHOR> https://helsinkiasaservice.com/ <comment><USER2> Okey this is the coolest thing I have seen in a while. As a proud Finn, I would say that everyone should try the demo! An experience not to miss! ;) And the Mayors comments in the video, hilarious. So on point! Welcome to HEL! [https://helsinkiasaservice.com/apply](https://helsinkiasaservice.com/apply)

</comment><comment><USER3> I love this idea. As someone currently living in Helsinki but having been an expat before, having support in finding the way at the beginning is so valuable.

I hope this will evolve into a one-stop shop at finding information about paperwork, apartments, bank/phone/utilities etc that are always different in every country and lots of work to be figured out.

If there's a city-provided service that reduces stress on that level, it would be super attractive to me.

<comment><USER4> Yeah definitely something like an easy step-by-step way of actually moving to the country and settling down. Its surprising how scattered such information can be in some countries.

I guess the Nordics are doing quite well in this regard though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> So basically they are offering a free trip to Helsinki for 4 days?

If you click the link for the "demo" [1] you get some more information, but still it's not super clear.

What are the application requirements? Do you have to be a developer to get accepted? Would appreciate to know more about this project.

[1][https://helsinkiasaservice.com/apply](https://helsinkiasaservice.com/apply)

</comment><comment><USER5> I live in Vantaa which is right next door while commuting every day to Helsinki. Only criteria seemed to be that I can't be a resident of Helsinki... Might have to apply for the fun idea and surprisingly great program.

</comment><comment><USER6> I think "city" was the final thing not yet turned into "as a service", haha!

Cool idea and a great execution, shoutout to HEL!

</comment><comment><USER7> Awesome video! I can attest, Helsinki is a cool place to live in :) right up there with san francisco.

</comment><comment><USER8> Haha, been to Sweden before not Helsnki. Maybe now should go to finland as well. CaaS lol though :D

</comment><comment><USER9> Ooh, this such idea! I wish I was living back in Helsinki <3

</comment><comment><USER10> There's a form to submit bug reports... classic

</comment><comment><USER11> Cool!

</comment><comment><USER12> CaaS lol

</comment><comment><USER13> Cool idea!

</comment><comment><USER14> Brilliant</comment>


Feed me data - <AUTHOR> http://www.scribd.com/doc/17460297/Feed-me-data <comment><USER2> Minor word of warning. Scrolling through that document caused major cpu usage and my browser to lock for about 20 seconds. (Opera on Windows XP)</comment>


US east coast may face prolonged power outages - <AUTHOR> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203335504578086914191695142.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTTopStories

<comment><AUTHOR> <http://google.org/crisismap/2012-sandy> has realtime data on the progress of the storm. It's expected to be especially devastating because of both additional weather systems in its path, and because the full moon means tides are at their monthly height. If utility tunnels under Manhattan flood then NYC may be 'offline' for several days, if not longer, even though the city is not in the direct path of the storm.</comment>


Is there an automated way to gague Facebook vs. Website performance? - not-john-stamos

Looking to see if there is a way to take the data from Facebook where it says "number of people who saw this post" and take that number and compare it to site visitors to measure your social media vs website performance ideally to ballpark how many people saw the post on Facebook and followed through to your website. <comment><AUTHOR> If you install web analytics on your website you can track how many of your visits have come from Facebook (or any other site) easily! No further code required.

If you trust Google and want a simple, well supported solution I recommend the free [http://google?com/analytics](http://google?com/analytics)

If you don't trust Google or another business with your data, there is an open-source analytics tool named Piwik that you can install on your own server and use to track your sites.

Both of these solutions should provide traffic source for you and can also be configured to automatically send you reports on a regular schedule.

Hope this helps!

<comment> not-john-stamos I am using Cloudflare right now. The issue with Google Analytics for me is Ive had it in place for 3 months and it still only says I have one visitor. I am not sure if that's Cloudflare's doing or if i put the google code in the wrong spot but its strange.

<comment><AUTHOR> I haven't used cloudlfare but from what I understand there's no way it should interfere with that.

If you load a page on your site and 'View Source' in your browser, do you see the google tracking code showing up on your site? Another thing you can cheque it on the Google Analytics side of things you can see if they are having difficulty crawling your site!</comment></comment></comment>


Net Neutrality Fans Rejoice: The FCC Will Reclassify Broadband - <AUTHOR> http://gigaom.com/2010/05/05/net-neutrality-fans-rejoice-the-fcc-will-reclassify-broadband/ <comment><USER2> for anyone unfamiliar with the classification part, it determines how much power the fcc has in regulation. they went into appeals because comcast claims the fcc is overstepping their authority (comcast won, and they're going to go back to throttling like they were before). according to the Telecommunications Act of 1996, a "telecommunications service" is:

 _offering of telecommunications for a fee directly to the public, or to such classes of users as to be effectively available directly to the public, regardless of the facilities used._

and an "information service" is:

 _the offering of a capability for generating, acquiring, storing, transforming, processing, retrieving, utilizing, or making available information via telecommunications, and includes electronic publishing, but does not include any use of any such capability for the management, control, or operation of a telecommunications system or the management of a telecommunications service._

a telecommunication service sells the ability to use the coaxial cables. an information service is responsible for everything beyond that. the loophole is when an ISP is considered both, in which case they can't be regulated the way they were meant to be. so comcast, for example, is really a telecomm service, but enjoys the advantages of an information service (a small ISP called Brand X started this whole thing by saying ISPs should be considered both, and that's when the network neutrality debate heated up in 2003).

when ISPs are classified as both "information services" and "telecommunications services," they cannot be regulated the same way and the fcc can't do much when they do stuff like deep packet inspection/injection, port blocking, price discrimination, double dipping, etc.

my personal opinion on the topic has always been this: comcast and other telecomms own the cables in the ground. they are simply moving bits from point A to point B, but they can never manipulate any of those bits. they should never charge you more money to access your bits from youtube, for example. and they should never slow those bits down, for example, if you're using a non- comcast application (whether it's youtube, itunes, google search, bittorrent, or whatever).

<comment><USER3> When their throttling they are not changing the bits, however... they're simply changing the how and when those bits are delivered. So by your logic, they should have the right throttle traffic however they want?

My argument: Comcast operates as basically a public utility. They don't completely own those cables. They dug them in public right of ways with a lot of help and subsidies from all levels of government. The people have a legitimate claim to ownership, and thus they have a legitimate claim to not be screwed by Comcast. They're abusing what is effectively a monopoly and should be regulated as such.

<comment><USER2> throttling is effectively slowing the bits down. in comcast's case, they have been shown to block p2p transfers entirely via packet forgery (comcast pays sandvine to do this).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I am in favor of net neutrality but not sure handing more control to the inept FCC is the answer.

Look how the effect of the previous attempt at government control/regulation (1996 Telecommunications Act) led to rapid consolidation of the ISP industry such that most users have only the choice for highspeed between DSL from the incumbent phone company or cable modem from the cable company.

Further, in spite of Comcast's costs for bandwidth, etc. dropping in the last 5 years, my price for their service has stayed the same or gone up (most would consider that evidence of there not being any competition).

<comment><USER5> The 1996 Telecommunications Act repealed regulation which was creating an artificial secondary market. That's simple deregulation, which is vary different from what your implying.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_Act_of_1996>

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Let's face it, flipping the script to make net neutrality happen is just sneaky. I know this Congress is fairly vitriolic right now, but this is like the bureaucratic equivalent of Apple vs. Flash, with some judge somewhere ready to pull out a "thoughts on net neutrality" card on these jokers.

If you're gonna do it, FCC, do it the right way.

<comment><USER7> It's weird to flip it, I agree, but it's at least a reversal from an incorrect to correct position: the original decision to classify ISPs as not providing a "telecommunications service" was pretty hard to support.

The Supreme Court nearly said as much in 2005 in the _Brand X_ case: they ruled in favor of the FCC's classification, but essentially only on the grounds that it was plausible enough that under existing agency-deference doctrine it could stand, even if wrong, as long as it wasn't totally insane. And even that only got a 6-3 vote, with 3 members of the court thinking the classification was _so_ plainly erroneous that it shouldn't survive even a deferential review. And one of the six who did vote to give its rule deference, Breyer, admitted it might be "just barely" plausible enough to pass. (And it wasn't even some sort of pro-regulation liberals who dissented; Scalia wrote the dissent, on the grounds that the FCC's decision was simply plainly wrong, by the text of the statute.)

So it seems overall we've at least gotten to a more plausible interpretation of the statute, which should've been the one the FCC adopted initially.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Not smart, IMO. The supreme court will slap them down again. They should just take net neutrality to congress. I know the telecoms have many congressmen in their pockets, but it is an election year and nobody likes their cable company, so it will at least make many congressmen mighty uncomfortable.

</comment><comment><USER9> Court tells FCC: you don't have this authority under the laws passed by elected officials.

FCC says: we'll grant ourselves the authority by bureaucratic fiat!

No committee of 5 partisan appointees -- guaranteed by formula to be 3 members of the president's party, and 2 from the opposition party -- should have this much power over something as fundamental as "communication".

Would we let the FCC reclassify printing presses as a "transport service", and thus subject to their regulations about ownership, subsidized access, suitable proportion of "public interest" content, and naughty words?

Do we want the internet to be as diverse as unregulated books and magazines, or as pandering to the-powers-that-be as FCC-regulated broadcast TV?

<comment><USER10> You are noising the point. The court doesn't want the FCC regulating info seevices like transport services, which makes sense. So, the FCC is saying "you're right" to the court and is treating broadband as a transport service, which it is. Broadband is more like a telephone call than a stream of ticker updates.

<comment><USER9> Interactive any-to-any broadband is more like speech itself, or a free press, than it is like either a telephone call or a TV station.

<comment><USER7> A provider of retail last-mile internet service is much more like a provider of retail last-mile telephone lines, though. Often it's even the _same_ physical line!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Trying to think what would do more for democracy on the Internet than this?

Imagine Facebook as an ISP.

Shiver.

</comment><comment><USER12> Before they rejoice perhaps they should consider that the main function of the FCC since its inception has been to censor the airwaves.

<comment><USER10> That is a nice story, but it isn't true. The FCC has largely been the police of the electromagnetic spectrum. Certifying people and devices, regulating transmission power and frequencies, the FCC has taken care of the limited public property of the spectrum, attempting to promote the public good. While the definition of public good controversially includes notions of decency, that is a small part of the job.

<comment><USER13> What you say may be true, but that doesn't mean that the FCC isn't a one stop shop for lobbying groups who wish to censor speech.

Imagine how HTML6 adoption will be blocked because the FCC will want to get its burocratic oomph into a spec that requires webmasters to specify whether a site is G, PG, PG13, NC17, etc.

Just google for Michael Powell quotes and you'll see that the FCC should be feared.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> The FCC should be renamed the NSP (nipple slip police).

</comment><comment><USER14> This whole matter should be left to the marketplace and to contracts. If you don't like the way a service is run, get a different one.

Regulations try to get a more optimum combination of costs and features given current conditions, but often what they do is prevent alternatives from developing.

<comment><USER2> sounds intuitive, but it's actually the opposite. when telecomms like comcast don't have to lease their lines out to other ISPs, there's nowhere else to go. the end-result is that any given person, if lucky, has only one or two places they can get high-speed internet from (att, verizon, comcast). and the redlining practices alone decrease broadband penetration, so a lot of people can't get to it.

to go one step further, telecomms will sue any municipality that tries to install their own fiber optics network as if it were a public utility. even if an entire city supports it and is willing to pay for it, telecomms will ensure that it can't happen, as was the case with monticello.

there are cases where regulation is necessary to prevent an oligopoly and encourage competition. right now, the tables are tipped favorably (imo unfairly) for the telecomms.

<comment><USER14> I think there's ATT and satellite, so not sure they are no other options.

When I think of the free market, I don't mean the present situation. This is not a free market. Cities set up exclusive contracts with cable providers like comcast.

In a free market, people would be banding together to negotiate for better terms and to lower infrastructure costs, but not at a city-wide level where they are frozen into the solution negotiated by grafty politicians.

I don't pretend to know how a truly non-coercive free market would play out, but I imagine condo home owner associations being able to choose from a variety of options.

They already do so for other services and would probably do the same for utilities if we didn't have the current system of regulated monopolies.

In a truly free market, the type of suits you refer to wouldn't work. Municipalities wouldn't even be involved.

We can add more coercion to the system, but I think undoing the coercion we already have is a better long term approach. Of course, its not often easy to see that path, especially when it looks so politically impossible.</comment></comment></comment>