Ask HN: What do you want to see in a resume / GitHub profile? - <AUTHOR> I've been out of the hiring game for 7 years. I love my job, my company but, unfortunately, COVID has affected it more than we would like to believe and layoffs are going to happen soon. I want to be prepared when that happens, so I'm asking my fellow HNers: what do you want to see in a resume and GitHub profile? I'm a Principal Software Engineer.
I see all the cool kids with side-projects: libraries, applications, etc. I also see plenty of fancy resumes. I have a 2-page thing in Helvetica, nothing fancy, listing my achievements and skills. I tried to reduce as much as possible since I've been told that the more I put there, the worse it is since it makes me look old and "you can't teach an old dog new tricks".
I know a lot of people, and I'm sure I won't be in a pickle. But I don't want to rely on my soft skills or work connections to set me up in the future: what is it that the market is currently looking for and how to adapt myself to it?
ps.: Oh, is ageism a thing? I'm 35. <comment><USER3> Let me give you a slightly different take. There are no specific things I'm looking for. But here are a few red flags that have proven to be good indicators of who NOT to hire. Don't

\- Use high-level vague marketing speech like "helped reduce customers acquisition cost by $X" \- The world is complex, who knows what that means in practice.

\- List MOOCs, certificates, or free online courses on your resume. 99% of these require no commitment and don't teach you anything. Listing them signals that you care about cheap credentials more than learning. If you wanted to learn, you would've created a project out of it, tried to implement something, or written a blog post, etc. I'd rather see "I privately read books about X in my free time" than cheap MOOC credential signaling. That'd be more impressive and I could ask about it in an interview.

\- List software like Excel or Google spreadsheets. I mean, if you're an engineer I'm assuming you can use a computer. Listing this means that you're living in a different world.

\- List fluffy soft skills like "I am a good communicator" without any backup. Results speak louder than words.

\- Too many spelling mistakes.

These are the things off the top of my head, I may add to it later.

<comment><USER4> > List software like Excel or Google spreadsheets. I mean, if you're an > engineer I'm assuming you can use a computer. Listing this means that you're > living in a different world.

I'd take this with a grain of salt. Excel is a very malleable tool that can do marvels in the right hands.

<comment><USER5> Yeah spreadsheet wizardry is as valuable to a business as being able to do the same thing with Python and Pandas

<comment><USER4> Yes.

Excel has the usual advantage to be immediately communicatable to others outside IT: just send the excel file.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Unpopular opinion, but as an old person, I am starting to look down on having too many technologies / frameworks on a CV these days. Some developers need to try something new every project and never learn anything with style or get deep into a tech, they are busy jumping on the next trend and learning things at a very shallow level.

It's not a definite "no", but it's a red flag for me as to why you would need Flask for one project when you have used Django for another and PHP for something else. If you can convince me that you that you had a good reason for changing that doesn't appear to be resume driven development, then I'll listen.

Also I am starting to value team players over technical skills. Provided you are of a reasonable level of ability it's more useful to have a team player than a diva genius. Most of us are doing a variation on CRUD that doesn't require superior levels of algorithmic ability.

My 2 cents having done this for 20 years and getting a bit bored of the bullshit .

<comment><USER7> I think you're not being fair to assume people who try out different technologies are looking to catch more buzzwords for their resume.

Using cutting edge technology can be fun and interesting. It may not be optimal, but these are personal projects--they're not intended to be optimal, but rather something more hobbyist.

<comment><USER6> How many web frameworks is it useful to know? Is it more useful to know one in depth or many at surface level?

I don't have a problem with people trying out things, but I have worked with developers that appear to need a new tech for every project. These people are doing it on work time.

It's like when you see a tutorial learn python in 8 hours. That means you have 8 hours of experience in Python, you don't know it in the same way as someone who has used it for 4 years.

<comment><USER8> > How many web frameworks is it useful to know

You're almost there. It's probably not useful to know every framework inside out, but there is a lot of value in being familiar with trends, which often means trying out a small project in a new tech to get a feel for it and then moving on.

What sort of value? Every programming tool (not just framework) requires you to learn different concepts to use it. Each requires you to think differently, which strengthens your toolbox in all frameworks, and learning new things often makes it easier to learn.

There is the potential for professional value. You never know where the community will go or what job listings you will see. For emerging tech, a little side project could mean the difference between getting or not getting a job that uses that tech.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> As someone who has conducted a lot of interviews and read even more resumes, there is no single good answer here.

Some of my peers would pour over resumes for hours. Others would look for specific items (a technology, a company, a school). Others would almost completely ignore the resume. Some companies I've worked at would have HR pre- vet resumes, getting rid of ones that didn't have some magical combination of keywords.

Sadly your resume is going to have to survive encounters will all of these people.

I will list one personal pet peeve: do not put anything on your resume that you cannot have an intelligent five-minute conversation about. "That was a long time ago, I kind of forget the details" doesn't cut it--if you forgot the details, it doesn't feel like it's part of your current skillset and thus doesn't belong on the resume.

</comment><comment><USER10> ...when did 35 become old?

Am I the only 30 yr old who feels like he only just got to grips with the basics of how to write software like an adult?

If we're past it by 35 what happens for the other 35 years of working life?

<comment><USER11> +1 on having the feeling of FINALLY understanding wht the whole hoopla is after age 30. :D

BTW, based on the currently common lifestyle choices, most tech folks who are 35, likely do not have another similar 35 yrs left in them :-)

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> I'm a a hiring manager at Uber. All I want to see is your profile being relevant for the position. The second best thing you can do is choose a clear format [1], be clear about the results you've helped happen, and customize your resume for that specific job.

The best thing you can do is get a referral. Still with a referral you'll want a relatively relevant resume.

And to your point on what you can _do_ to be relevant. I say keep track of the impact of what you ship. How much $$ per year does your project generate? How many users? How many RPS? How many engineering hours saved? Whenever I see people with resumes who have done more impactful things than I'm hiring for, I think: I need to talk to this person. It's exactly the type of expertise we need. And so few resumes have any of this.

I'm also writing a book exactly on this topic, which is at 115 pages and lots of visuals, and examples, including advice for experienced people like yourself. As I don't trust myself only, I'm having tech recruiters and hiring managers across the industry help me out. You can check out the beta of the book [2] and I'd love feedback on what you might feel is missing there.

I'm planning to make the book free for any software engineer who have lost their job due to COVID when it launches.

[1] [https://twitter.com/GergelyOrosz/status/1279431439914762240?...](https://twitter.com/GergelyOrosz/status/1279431439914762240?s=20) [2] [https://thetechresume.com/](https://thetechresume.com/)

</comment><comment><USER13> Hiring manager here.

In a resume, I want to see where you've worked, how long you were at each job, and your major accomplishments at each. Those can be technical and non- technical -- perhaps you made some excellent people process improvements you can showcase. I don't want to see your hobbies or where you went to high school, keep it professional and relevant to work. Personally, I use LinkedIn as my resume. If a recruiter wants something different, they're welcome to use print mode or format it in Word / PDF themselves.

I don't care about your GitHub profile. It's a small value add, nothing more.

Ageism is not a thing I've seen. I've worked at a trendy unicorn and was involved in hiring multiple people 30+ and at least one 50+. I'm in my mid 30s.

At your level, I really want to know how you work with others and influence teams across an organization. Your tech skills are now secondary to your people skills, but you still have to be up to date on tech since you'll be one of the driving forces at the company.

Why don't you want to rely on your network to set you up in the future? It's one of your biggest professional assets and will open doors to jobs that aren't publicly advertised.

<comment><USER14> > I don't care about your GitHub profile. It's a small value add, nothing > more.

I think this sentiment may be unfortunately common. It used to be that having a good github profile was golden. I got my first two jobs probably as a result of my github activity. Lately I get the sense that no one even bothers to look. To me this signals that the company itself doesn't value technical matters as much as how good the candidate is at answering canned behavioral questions.

For example, if as a hiring manager you are convined that "Tell me about a time you had a disagreement with a coworker" is more valuable than a decade of open source contributions to relevant projects, that's a problem IMO.

<comment><USER13> > I got my first two jobs probably as a result of my github activity.

That makes sense. You're showing small contributions which is what's expected of a junior engineer. It showcases that you can actually write some code. However, as you advance in your career, the expectation is that you will work on higher level concepts. Github profiles aren't really a place I've seen used to showcase architecture and design skills, nor how candidates work with others, and those things matter significantly more than a 20 line patch in an open source library for a Lead+ engineer.

The parent poster was asking for advice as a Principal Engineer. At that level, they aren't going to be writing much code on a daily basis, so their Github profile is not very relevant to the job at hand. That level is VP equivalent or higher at most companies, and most engineers will not achieve it. It comes without the people management, but is most definitely a leadership position.

<comment><USER15> Also, a principal engineer is more likely to be older and have a family and other commitments outside of work. They're therefore less likely to be able to spend all their free time working on side projects or contributing to open source. If you have a robust github profile with lots of contributions that's great, especially for a junior, but I dislike this expectation that candidates should be judged on whether or not they spend their free time coding outside of work. When I get home I want to log off and spend time with my friends and family, get outdoors, exercise, cook, read, participate in other hobbies etc etc. Not all of us are 22-year-old startup kids whose lifestyle consists of work-party-code 24/7 - and that's okay (no shade to those kids, I used to be one but I'm old and boring now...and a much better engineer). Nobody judges lawyers on how many case briefs they read in their free time or asks doctors to spend the weekends treating their friends and family for minor ailments. It's silly.

<comment><USER14> > whether or not they spend their free time coding outside of work

I would argue that candidates should absolutely be judged on whether they have significant portfolio work available to view publicly. Of course, this is dependent on the hiring managers' being competent.

Candidates shouldn't necessarily be judged on _not_ having any public portfolio work though. I'm an advocate for take-home challenges. I think these give the best representation of actual work.

<comment><USER15> What do you mean? They should be judged on whether or not they have something that they should not necessarily be judged for NOT having? That doesn't make any sense. But yes I'm in favor of take home challenges as well. I know a lot of people hate them but it's the best way to get an idea of how someone will work under normal constraints (i.e. not during a timed hackerrank exercise).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Do you have $120? If so, hire a resume consultant like The Muse ([https://www.thebalancecareers.com/the-muse-resume- review-484...](https://www.thebalancecareers.com/the-muse-resume- review-4846277)). Landing a good job affects your mental health as well as your financial security, so this is a really cheap and easy investment in your future.

From my own experience, I can tell you that there's two basic kinds of resumes: an "attractive to recruiters" resume, and an "attractive to a single employer" resume.

The former is what you post on job boards to get recruiters to notice you. It's full of buzzwords and designed to cast a wide net. It doesn't need to look great, but it should provide lots of information about your last few jobs and highlight all the tech you've worked on as well as different industries, roles, etc.

The latter is what you send them as your "latest updated resume" that will get passed on to a real hiring manager at a real company. It should be trimmed down, attractive without looking ridiculous, and only showcase the stuff that matters to the one company and what they're looking for. You want the person who hires you to think that you were born to fill that role, and that you will be an "easy hire".

And yes, ageism at 35 is a thing, but you can use it to your advantage. Younger people might get overlooked for some positions for "not enough experience", whereas an older person can talk up their proven effectiveness and ability to solve problems and manage complex work and soft skills.

</comment><comment><USER17> I've talked to a few different hiring managers and recruiters about for the sake of my own project[1] this so I'll share what I've learned here (this applies more to GitHub/portfolio than resume):

\- Projects should have a clear README explaining what it is and why it exists. Some hiring managers will dive into the code properly but others simply won't have the time and are looking to get a good overview. Both groups want to see a clear README that explains what the project is about and ideally provides a link or some screenshots if relevant. Things like installation instructions should be there as a component of good documentation, but don't expect them to actually go to the effort to do install and run things, most won't.

\- Curating your GitHub profile a little can make their lives easier. Simplest way to do this is by pinning your best repos. Consider removing (or making private) things that might be considered "clutter" like e.g. forks that you haven't done anything with.

\- Having good, atomic commit messages, and clear, helpful comments on issues, prs, etc. is good, but many simply won't go into this much depth.

\- Having detailed, well-written blog posts about technical issues can definitely be impressive. As with your code, a hiring manager may often just skim this, but all they need to come away with is the impression that "this person knows their stuff".

\- As said in another comment, things like typos and grammar mistakes are a big no-no, especially on resumes.

[1] - [https://profiled.app](https://profiled.app) (tool for generating a portfolio site from a GitHub account)

</comment><comment><USER18> \- Show respect for the reader's time. Sometimes we scan 10-15 resumes a day and can see clear patterns, repetitive marketing pitch, lofty unsubstantiated claims. Unserstand that others applying for the job have very similar resumes and you need to be more direct and stand out from the pack. The job poster's BS detector is fairly finetuned and can quicky pick out BS from true merit.

\- What draws my attention is humility and the resumes that speak directly to me. Like a resume narrating a coherent career story.

\- Show some solid experience in the core technologies requested in the job posting.

This much is usually enough to prompt me to give someone a call and then know their story and cross reference it with what the resume said and also know more about them.

</comment><comment> notsag-hn Hi, jakearmitage. As a senior engineer that was able to get jobs/visa sponsorship abroad more than once I feel I can give you the following pieces of advice:

\- Start with what kind of job you would love to have. Do you want to work for a blockchain startup? maybe a gaming one? Or fintech? It may be something you never did, don't limit yourself.

\- If you don't have a Github project related to what you want to do, create one. Put a lot of emphasis on the README of the project and on code quality.

\- Read a relevant book before starting looking for the job. That alone will give you a lot of stuff to talk about and it's going to be really fresh in your mind. People that read books have much more chances of standing out.

\- Create 2 or 3 generic CVs and do customize them when applying for a job. I used to customize mainly the top paragraph(s) of the CV I use to introduce myself. Describe your skills and interests from the perspective of that particular job.

\- Regarding CV style, I'd prefer a sober and minimalistic one. Google "best fonts for CVs 2020" and pick up one you like.

\- Highlight keywords so it's much easier to understand your skills at first glance.

\- Don't just list technologies but also explain in a higher level what you have achieved.

\- Nowadays there are ML-based tools that analyze and even discard your CV before a human takes a look at it. Glassdoor had some time ago a CV analyzer that literally gave me hints that allowed me landing a job, after simply changing a bit its wording my CV got much more visibility. Find some of those tools and give them a try, if the feedback you get is reasonable edit your CV accordingly and see what happens.

\- Have a lot of interviews! If it's difficult for you to get them (which I doubt if you are a principal engineer already), apply for jobs that you would just take in an emergency situation and sit those interviews. At some point I was having like 2-3 interviews a day. That helped me be sharp on selling myself after some weeks and that is crucial!

And that would be it, I hope this helps. Good luck with your search!

</comment><comment><USER19> Honestly I'd consider hiring you based on the combination of confidence & humility in this post. It's rare.

I'm not sure if linking to this post from your resume is a great idea... but it could be.

If you're in Chicago, reach out.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you for the kind words, really uplifting! Unfortunately, I'm in FL.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Some tips:

\- Decide first what type of role would you be interested in ? And this is not always driven from your current experience but most likely, your current experience will be the most relevant. You said you are a Principal Software Engineer with at least 7 years of experience ? Do you want to be ready for a similar job or are you interested in a different role that you know you are capable of.

\- based on your determination from above, you then need to work on your Resume and online presence. Do you need a github ? Not really. There are lot of github profiles out there that are basically just a fork/clone of other projects without any new work being done. Instead, create a 1-2 page website about you with your Resume on it. Make it easy to learn about who you are and if you are worth a second look on paper. Focus on "accomplishments" instead of technologies especially as you become more senior over the years. I couldn't care less if you are a Python or PHP developer if your Resume talks about solving real problems at work that are similar to your prospective employer.

\- I highly suggest starting a blog. It is hard I know. It is difficult to write. But talk about things you have learned. Not only tech but general stuff. Things that gives a prospective employer indication about the type of work you like to do. For the right employers, it will help. No one knows who you are until you show. This is an old saying "Show, Don't Tell". Figure out what works for you to show who you are and then let people find you hopefully.

\- Ageism is absolutely a thing. But there are plenty of good companies/hiring teams that look for experience and value it. Because they need it. Find those teams. Ageism becomes a bigger issue when you are that guy with 1 year of experience 7 times instead of actual 7 years worth of experience. Which one are you ? Challenge yourself and find out.

</comment><comment><USER21> There's nothing that piques my interest more than a way too long and well- documented rant about an extremely niche and inconsequential topic (tabs vs paces, variable naming conventions, whatever). I do not really care about the specific option taken, but about the raw passion on its defence. Mostly, I appreciate people who can write an engaging argument.

</comment><comment><USER22> In the service of keeping my resume as dense as possible while remaining readable I've moved specific technology keywords from the body of my line items to the end of each job's body.

So instead of this:

      Weyland Yutani Corp, Sea of Tranquility, 2318-2320
      - increased foo by bar with blockchain, ml, vr, k8s, GIMP
      - did baz with COBOL, webassembly, graphql, react

I'd just have this:

      Weyland Yutani Corp, Sea of Tranquility, 2318-2320
      - increased foo by bar
      - did baz
      (ml, blockchain, big data, k8s, GIMP, react, etc)

I can't comment on if it's something hiring managers and recruiters prefer but I can say that I think it looks nice and I am currently employed.

</comment><comment><USER23> Totally different take . Nobody cares about your github or has time to click that url.

Instead get a referral and leetcode like crazy. Target all the leet code questions that are tagged by your target company and CTCI

</comment><comment><USER24> 1\. Clean resume. Programming is 100% communication, both with yourself and others. If your resume doesn't communicate well, you probably don't code/design very well. Emphasize important parts, and it matters what exactly about yourself you're emphasizing, and that you don't follow a "default" template.

2\. Seniority. It's said that a person's second project will be their worst, overengineered and bound to fail. Someone who has done three projects can solo. Any less needs a mentor who has done at least three projects. Someone who's working on their first production project will underengineer it, but that's fixable by bringing a senior in later. There are people who have years of experience but never the opportunity to do a project from scratch - <USER2> will still go through those phases.

3\. Fill in gaps. If they're a break, why? Many people are embarrassed of gaps, because they're a phase of experimentation and failure. But if you've taken a couple years off to become a monk or try a startup, say so. Dealing with burnout says a lot about your experience and how tough you've grown too.

</comment><comment><USER25> For the last couple of jobs (lead and senior) I've had a resume focused on business achievements that I helped lead. I'll put some relevant technologies but it's not a huge focus area. This helped slim down the resume naturally because my first few jobs had less notable "big deals", later jobs more.

Not that you asked for advice on this part but — ageism isn't a thing (at 35 imo), but what is a thing is interviewing from position of strength. There is a world of a difference between being a principal who is seeing the writing on the wall and getting out, versus waiting for the layoffs and now being a former principal. It's gonna make the interviews harder, you're going to have more stress, companies may play comp games. If you think it's going there I'd strongly consider expediting your search.

</comment><comment><USER26> Whatever you do, keep your CV short, one page. Highlight your impact to the business. Don't list Word, Excel since you're applying to a software dev job. Highlight personal projects if any, and clean up your github profile to show your most starred repos if any (play the game).

</comment><comment><USER27> This post reminded me of the generator (English, Danish and pirate-english is supported) that I used to write cover letters when hunting for jobs. I sent the same CV for each job.

I was usually called in for an interview for 2 out of 5 times. The CV just lists the different places that I worked and what I worked on. At the end I have a table with the tech that I know. Listed most recent first. I have a picture in the CV and some bullshit about what I do in my spare time. I have kids .. so no spare time of importance.

</comment><comment><USER28> Here's my tip for kickstarting a career search from a cold start:

\- Look at N job descriptions for job(s) you want

\- Flush out your LinkedIn profile to make it look like you can do the jobs you want

\- Set your LinkedIn profile to being open to new opportunities

\- Engage with any recruiter who comes along for the practice

\- If you get a lot of attention, refine your pitch, and if you don't get any attention, look into why that is

\- If a recruiter asks you to send them a resume, and you don't have one you like, use a PDF of your LinkedIn profie

<comment> non-entity > Flush out your LinkedIn profile to make it look like you can do the jobs you > want

Could you expand on what all this involves?

<comment><USER28> Say you want to be apply for a Lead Frontend Engineer role @ GlamourCo. They're asking for experience w/ React, UX, training junior devs, and customer facing experience.

Now let's say you've been working on as a Fullstack Engineer @ BlandCo. You're confident that your recent work experience has prepared you for the frontend position at GlamourCo, but it's not an obvious fit.

Would a recruiter @ GlamourCo look at your work experience from BlandCo and think "holy moly, this person looks has the CV that makes me wanna call them first!" If not, why not? You need to make your application a package that the hiring team wants to open sooner than later.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> The best advice I ever got regarding how to write a technical resume was all cribbed from Gayle McDowell's "The Google Resume".

The most salient piece of advice: Use a "what-how-what-impact" format in your work history's line items.

To modify an example given elsewhere in the comments, instead of

> helped reduce customers acquisition cost by $X

prefer

> Streamlined customer acquisition by building a self-serve customer > onboarding web app using Python and Django, reducing acquisition cost by $X > yearly

</comment><comment><USER30> I wouldn't personally look at someone's work on github and take this as an indication of they type of code they would write for a production system. Not unless they provided their profile as a showcase specifically. I play around with ideas and experiment with stuff on github. If I thought someone was going to use that to judge the quality of the code I would write at work I would delete it as it's not what I would produce professionally.

<comment><USER30> For what it's worth, I've never once been asked to provide a link to my github profile during a job application. If I was asked I'd think they company were being pretty short sighted if using this as a way to filter applicants.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> I am a mainframe Db2 DBA, after having 5yrs of experience, I had a resume of almost 4 pages. I was asked to interview a person with 20yrs experience his resume was 2 pages. His resume had all works he did in that 20yrs and tools he used. That day I decided if I am sending out an resume it's not going to be more than 2 pages. I can still remember his resume, it was simple to read.

</comment><comment><USER32> To answer the headline, the main thing I'm looking for in a github page is "can the applicant code"

So what I want to see is a project repo that the applicant has made in a language that I can read. That's pretty unfair, as github decides which repos are listed on top, so they might be forks or similar stuff that is not helpful in evaluating an applicant.

</comment><comment><USER9> > I don't want to rely on my soft skills or work connections to set me up in > the future

Maybe don't _rely_ , but please don't feel _bad_ about using work connections.

And it's not necessarily a matter of "set me up": If you work well with someone at one company, you'll probably work well with them at another. It's win-win.

</comment><comment><USER33> * Bullet points.

* Concise bullet points.

* Easy-to-scan bullet points.

There is a style of resume I sometimes encounter: huge blocks of paragraph text including scattered bold statements about _React Native_ and other _Super Buzzwords_. There's a whole story crafted about the applicant and their _AWS_ skills.

It's incredibly hard to parse. Don't do that.

</comment><comment><USER34> I just bought this book by Gergely Orosz and it was extremely helpful:

[https://thetechresume.com/](https://thetechresume.com/)

</comment><comment><USER35> ageism is a thing once you're past 40, for sure. Not so much at 35, I think.</comment>


Show HN: a minimalist HN reader built using only JavaSciprt - <AUTHOR> http://matysanchez.com/hn-reader/

<comment><USER2> When clicking on the comments link I get an "Unknown." message.

Looks like you have extra forward slashes in the comments link. "[https://news.ycombinator.com//item?id=7111627"](https://news.ycombinator.com//item?id=7111627")

<comment><AUTHOR> Fixed. Thank you!

<comment><USER3> I'm still getting them...</comment></comment></comment>


People spend on average more than 50 minutes a day using Facebook - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2016/04/27/facediction/ <comment><USER2> This is why I'm a fan of projects like Minium and at least one other "minimal phone" type deal. There's got to be some way to be connected but also more present.</comment>


Major features of PostgreSQL 9.6 [pdf] - <AUTHOR> http://momjian.us/main/writings/pgsql/features.pdf <comment><USER2> I really would like to see bi-temporal table support eventually come to PG

[https://wiki.postgresql.org/images/6/64/Fosdem20150130Postgr...](https://wiki.postgresql.org/images/6/64/Fosdem20150130PostgresqlTemporal.pdf)

Is anybody aware somebody working on that for PG?

<comment><USER3> > I really would like to see bi-temporal table support eventually come to PG

> Is anybody aware somebody working on that for PG?

Not that I am aware of.

Postgres is a fantastic database, and with zero licensing headaches, but when people ask why companies are still paying for commercial DBMS engines, some features that they have which Postgres does not have, and which I often miss are :

1)"temporal" / versioned tables / time consistent views of data . Oracle has a lot of "flashback" related options at the DB and table levels which can be really useful.

2) Easy, built-in partitioning for large datasets. (This is being worked on and will probably start to be released in Postgres 10).

3) Better backup options for large databases, such as incremental/differential backups.

In the Yandex migration from Oracle to Postgres I recall that this, ie incremental backups, is one of the things they mentioned it would be great to have.

4) Along with backups, the built-in recovery options in Postgres are fairly basic compared to what you can do regarding single table recovery, corruption repair etc that other DBs have.

<comment><USER4> > incremental/differential backups

What's wrong with WAL backup? Postgres can run your script and pass it path to newly created WAL chunk, that you can ship off anywhere.

Or run `pg_start_backup`, rsync data directory, `pg_stop_backup`.

<comment><USER5> > What's wrong with WAL backup?

I use PG for 10 years and I never needed incremental backups. But if someone asked me about it then I would respond that the PG has no incremental backups.

So WAL backup is not well known or documented in my opinion. An average db admin needs a tool which will generate incremental backup as a single file named like dbname_20160926.sql

<comment><USER6> Barman[1] gives you something better than incremental backups actually. It sets up the backup server as a database slave via PG's built-in replication. It gives you point in time recovery with the nicest CLI of any backup tool for any DB I've ever used.

If you think backup tools are a minus for PG, I guess you've never used barman. Easy as pie and has saved my bacon several times when CASCADE DELETE wrecked a few dbs for me due to coworkers futzing around.

[1] [http://www.pgbarman.org/](http://www.pgbarman.org/)

<comment><USER5> > If you think backup tools are a minus for PG, I guess you've never used > barman

You are right, I've never used barman. But I have streaming replication configured manually. Generally I am quite happy with PG backup tools.

However this discussion made me to think about pg_dump deficiencies. WAL backup is for whole db cluster. But how do I incrementally update one db? E.g. one prod db to my dev environment.

<comment><USER6> Indeed, that is something that WAL files don't work for. There aren't a lot of great answers for that. I generally will restore a point in time snapshot somewhere and then dump out that entire db to restore via sql or whatnot.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> > _Parallel execution of sequential scans, joins and aggregates_

This confuses me—I thought a sequential scan was slow because it was limited by disk I/O; why is it faster to hawe multiple threads waiting around for the same disk?

(I guessed maybe that it was running _different_ sequential scans in the same query in parallel, but no, pages 3 and 4 of the PDF show parallel workers being used for a single scan of a single table)

<comment><USER8> It is worth checking out the wiki on the details of the parallel query for how and when it works: [https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Parallel_Query](https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Parallel_Query)

<comment><USER9> or read this chapter (the wiki page's content made into the official documentation): [https://www.postgresql.org/docs/devel/static/parallel- query....](https://www.postgresql.org/docs/devel/static/parallel-query.html)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Wow the Version 10 feature's are exciting. Really.

<comment><USER11> Where did you see those?

<comment><USER12> the (second) last slide were 'possible 10 features'

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I am really glad to see "searching for phrases" feature for Full-Text Search, as doing that with POSIX was really painful operation for long text area fields.

<comment><USER14> What does 'doing that with POSIX' mean? I have read this many times but I do not have a clear understanding.

<comment><USER13> I meant using something like t.long_text_field ~~ '\mexact phrase\M' in actual sql statement - [https://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.5/static/functions- matchin...](https://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.5/static/functions- matching.html)</comment></comment></comment>


Saudi Arabia arrests one of tech's biggest investors - <AUTHOR> https://www.engadget.com/2017/11/05/saudi-arabia-arrests-major-tech-investor/ <comment><USER2> It's part of consolidation of political power within the ruling class of Saudi Arabia. They are arresting people who are not onboard witglh their 2030 vision to modernize their society and diversify their economy.

The fact this guy was a large tech investor is inconsequential compared to his resistanc and opposition to the 2030 plan.

<comment><USER3> If he's into tech and stuff, why isn't he on board with their 2030 plans if it's about modernizing society?

<comment><USER4> Modernizing Saudi Arabia is more about religion than tech.

<comment><USER3> Thank you. At the time I didn't want to go down the rabbit hole of looking all this up.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> At least one of the billionaire Princes was reportedly funding the antifa 'riots' on Nov 4. They have been locked up for corruption, and the money for the riot never appeared, thus people stayed at home. Saudi Princess have been buying up media for a while, most recently 'the independent' and 'Twitter'. They have been pushing their own ideological goals.</comment>


Pope Francis to parents of LGBT children: 'God loves your children as they are' - <AUTHOR> https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2020/09/17/pope-francis-parents-lgbt-children-god-loves-your-children-they-are <comment><USER3> I hope that the church will change with the times, similar to the way their practices and beliefs with respect to racism have changed since the 60s [1].

However, I wouldn't take the pope's words as a sign of that change. I have friends who are gay or lesbian and formerly part of the catholic church. When he says that god loves them, I assume it is in the sense that god loves everyone, even sinners. From what I understand, gay people are seen kind of like drug addicts by the church. People who are worthy of pitty, but are still considered "sick".

Being told that you are sick from your earliest memories because of who you are attracted to, something you don't have control over, leaves lasting scars on a person. All of my gay friends who left catholicism grew up killing that part of themselves and pretending to be someone they are not for like the first two decades of their life. The rest of their life has been spent trying to rebuild themselves from that. From literally being taught to hate themselves for what they are.

The one friend I have who did come out as a teenager was dissowned by her parents and had to move in with a relative. She spent two years living out of a cousin's house and people like her who are less fortunate are out there without a home right now for the crime of being gay.

I really hope that the church will adapt and recognize the real damage they are inflicting on children, but like I said, I'm not very optimistic.

[1] [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_race](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_race)

<comment><USER4> > From what I understand, gay people are seen kind of like drug addicts by the > church. People who are worthy of pitty, but are still considered "sick".

This is not at all the case in Christian doctrine that I'm aware of. "Gay" is a sexual orientation, and Christians including Catholics have no objection to sexual orientation _per se_. However it is possible to object to disordered sexual _practices_ , such as heterosexual fornication that inherently denies the true human dignity of those who are objectified by such practices, and also to other practices that are similarly objectifying and involve victimization and denial of human dignity.

Separately, Christian doctrine also objects to those who "put a stumbling block in the blind's path" by promoting destructive practices e.g. via ideology or lifestyle, and unfortunately a sizeable part of so-called LGBTQ+ social activism has not clearly spoken out against objectifying and disordered practices, and in many cases has promoted them quite irresponsibly. However this is always a critique of some highly-visible social _activist movements_ , never of sexual orientation itself!

<comment><USER5> > unfortunately a sizeable part of so-called LGBTQ+ social activism has not > clearly spoken out against objectifying and disordered practices, and in > many cases has promoted them quite irresponsibly

Eh? What on earth are you talking about? The morality of the various gay people I know is, not coincidentally, the morality of everyone else. If you're talking about BDSM then if it's consensual it's fine (and if not, it's a crime of violence). If you mean other than BDSM then I've no idea what.

and btw what does 'disordered' mean.

<comment><USER4> > then if it's consensual it's fine

So, you're saying that consent is always fully informed, freely given and involves deep awareness of every aspect or possible consequence of even strange and unusual sexual practices such as BDSM? Because this is what it would take for consent to be truly ethical. I don't believe this is what always happens. And yes, I do worry the BDSM community, by and large, is significantly understating the risk that, e.g. some self-defined "doms" and "tops" might engage in behavior that _is_ in fact grossly unethical by any sensible standard. And other parts of the LGBTQ+ community can be similarly problematic. Let's face it, rape culture has existed for thousands of years and it can still be a huge problem today.

<comment><USER5> > So, you're saying that consent is always fully informed, freely given and > involves deep awareness of every aspect or possible consequence...

Mostly, yes, and where it is not, if a person is new to this stuff they always has the right to say stop. Always.

> even strange and unusual sexual practices

'strange and unusual' is weaseling. Whether they are or aren't 'strange' or 'unusual' is irrelevent. If consent is given between adults, consent is given. And it can be withdrawn at any point. If you don't understand this about BDSM you should find out more about it (NB. it's not my thing either, but I'm not going to judge).

> some self-defined "doms" and "tops" might engage in behavior that is in fact > grossly unethical by any sensible standard.

this is pure emotive projection of you not liking this stuff. 'grossly unethical', lord, if it has consent, it's fine. Let people get on with what they wish; don't judge, and if you talk of 'sensible standards' you need to nail this down.

> And other parts of the LGBTQ+ community can be similarly problematic

So you throw in more claims of badness but carefully don't say what.

> rape culture

I presume this exists in heterosexual culture too? It's just as wrong there.

Your post feels more driven by a kind of homophobia than understanding - <USER2> any desire to understand.

Like I said, I'm not into it but that doesn't make it wrong by my standards.

Edit: I'm hetero and for the life Of me I can't understand why a bloke would fancy a bloke. But they do. And that makes no sense to me, but I'm not going to condemn it, and when I see 2 people liking each other, of any gender, I just feel happy for them.

<comment><USER4> > if a person is new to this stuff they always has the right to say stop. > Always.

While this is hopefully the case, surely you must be aware that this does _not_ in fact absolve the other person from needing to know what they're doing, and to truly care for the person's well being. After all, a victimized person might often be too shocked, scared etc. to even say anything. Or they might assume that what they're experiencing is "normal" even when it's not. Sexual ethics is _really, really_ complicated, and more problematic practices like those in the BDSM spectrum only add to the complexity. "Consent" alone just doesn't cut it, true love and care for others is essential.

<comment><USER5> Of course you must care for the other person's wellbeing. Which includes consent freely given. BDSM emphasises that. Go and read stuff.

> After all, a victimized person...

In such a case consent has not been freely given. Therefore this would be classed as assault. Edit: there's nothing specific to gays or BDSM in this either, exploitation of vulnerable people can occur in plain hetero relationships with plain vanilla sex.

> Sexual ethics is really, really complicated

I don't agree. It _can be_ \- not _is_ , it _can be_. Difficult corner cases of ethics always exist eg. treating a person against their will because that person hasn't the ability to consent so someone else must, and the treatment is given without consent (I was in hospital in the next bed to a guy, a child in a man's body, where this happened. Not a nice experience). In most cases things are straightforward. Most adults are adults.

> Consent" alone just doesn't cut it, true love and care for others is > essential.

Freely given consent does cut it.

The stuff about true love, I reject. That's a christianised view of sex. People can and do have sex while liking but not loving each other, and you have no right to judge them for it.

...care for others... Obviously

<comment><USER4> > exploitation of vulnerable people can occur in plain hetero relationships > with plain vanilla sex.

Of course, and Christian ethics rejects such exploitation. The term is fornication, which directly derives from the Greek and Roman terms for their widespread practice of prostitution. But overly "casual" sex can also be similarly objectifying and exploitive.

And Christian ethics says that we must _always_ care for our neighbor with the same love we have for ourselves. Surely this must be all the more true in inherently complex and problematic matters like sex. This is the care for others that is asked of us.

> I don't agree. It can be - not is, it can be.

Given the grievous consequences that can be involved in sexual victimization, it seems safe to say that sexual ethics is _always_ a complicated matter. Not because of weird "corner cases", but because of the extreme level of maturity - and indeed of human self-dignity, self-actualization, autonomy etc. - that's required of us to avoid even unwittingly victimizing others. The case where two people are genuinely and happily in love with each other is not a "christianised view" that we're insisting on for the sake of being judgmental; it's just basic sexual ethics on easy mode.

<comment><USER5> > and Christian ethics rejects such exploitation

You recognise no other ethics? You abrogate all ethical judgements to your narrow viewpoint, apparently leaving none for others - of all other religions and in my case, atheism. So I am amoral? immoral? You haven't learnt from the horrors that christianity inflicted upon so many. In not learning, you are willing to perpetuate them.

> But overly "casual" sex can also be similarly objectifying and exploitive

'overly'? define 'overly' here. It's just a causally slapped-on label. You disapprove of casual sex, well that's your view, not mine. Any sex is fine if it's consented to, including degrading sex, which is loathsome to me but some like that - I will not tell others how to live their lives. But some christians will, it seems.

> Given the grievous consequences that can be involved in sexual > victimization, it seems safe to say that sexual ethics is always a > complicated matter

Heck, this sentence is a mess:

"...that can be involved in sexual victimization" as opposed to other victimisation?

"it seems safe to say" Does it? You need to justify this - again without presumptive weasel wording.

"...it's just basic sexual ethics on easy mode." More weaseling, implying that my position is 'easy mode' therefore childish and wrong.

If we assume adults can give consent freely by dint of being adults and not in exploitative circumstances, that's enough for me and covers the vast majority of encounters. You're just wrapping up an uncharitable (but christian!) view of what's right and wrong saying others should obey it. This caused eg. gays to have a miserable time for centuries. Shall I mention the treatment of jews, the crusades, the inquision.

I reject anything that leads to a rerun of those, I reject your value system (at least on this aspect). I reject your judgement of others. I reject your intolerance.

Some words from the bible I do like: Judge not lest you be judged.

<comment><USER4> > You recognise no other ethics? You abrogate all ethical judgements to your > narrow viewpoint, apparently leaving none for others - of all other > religions

The rule of reciprocity is part of many ethical traditions, as is general respect for temperance and self-control in sexual matters. So I'm not sure how christianity is alone or even 'narrow' in this respect. Of course we should not be judgmental of people for what they do in private, since they're not involving anyone else and can be assumed to act with at least basic responsibility. But those who actively promote lifestyles and ideologies in the public sphere can be fairly criticized.

Like it or not, promoting a lifestyle or ideology such as LGBTQ+ means making very specific claims as to how "others should live their lives" and we all should be free to choose whether or not to further promote these claims and values.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Samsung just unveiled the widest computer monitor you can buy - <AUTHOR> http://www.businessinsider.com/samsung-qh90-super-ultra-wide-329-monitor-photos-2017-6/ <comment><USER2> Wow, if they could just make it a little taller. I can't give up 2nd monitor in portrait mode for my code window.

<comment><AUTHOR> I wonder if you can use this monitor in portrait mode?

<comment><USER2> Lol, I seriously doubt it!</comment></comment></comment>


Valve is bringing Steam to your TV Today - <AUTHOR> http://kotaku.com/5941793/valve-is-bringing-steam-to-your-tv-today-watch-out-consoles

<comment><USER2> The most interesting part of that article for me is the "lotus" approach to using a controller to map to a full keyboard. Event at first glance is looks incredibly elegant and indicates that they have some serious thinking talent in there which bodes well for the bigger picture (if I can use such a pun).

<comment><USER3> I am trying hard (and failing) to recall a game which had a mechanism like this for entering names etc.

I _think_ it was Killzone on PS2, but can't be certain.

<comment><USER4> I can't find a reference, but there was a PSP homebrew app that had a keyboard very similar to this. In addition, I saw a similar keyboard at a CS fair at my university last year. It's not new, just not particularly widely used.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I love this idea, and it is definitely the right way to go. Unlocking the TV- playing audience is something that made Microsoft and Sony a lot of money over the years. It will put Valve miles ahead of any other competitor out there (though, the competitors will just copy the idea -- which is fine). The next hurdle for Valve is how to get their Big Picture service to the customer on their TV.

One way to do that is a game streaming service, but OnLive is floundering and Ouya is too far away for that. If Valve goes the other way and ships a set-top computer, that might help but now they're in the same race that MS and Sony are in with their console lifecycle.

<comment><USER6> A small note about Ouya: it isn't a game streaming service. You will be able to run OnLive on it - no different to how you can run OnLive on a PC right now (maybe slightly different if OnLive is installed by default, but still..) - other than that, Ouya has nothing to do with game streaming.

Would you mind sharing why you think of Ouya as related to streaming? It's not an uncommon thought, I know plenty of people who work in the games industry who have the same misconception about it, so I presume something sometime caused this?

<comment><USER5> Sure thing. And thanks for calling me on that, because I was completely wrong about the Ouya for some reason.

I think of Ouya as a game streaming device because:

(a) this seems to be the direction a lot of companies are headed in;

(b) the device itself is so small[1] that it seems like it can't run a powerful game, so I just mentally jumped to the conclusion that it is a streaming device; and

(c) the pictures I keep seeing on news websites and such are of the game controller, not the device itself, so I assumed that it was similar to the OnLive service (I recall their ads only showing the game controller as well).

[1] It has the same footprint of an Apple TV or Roku box.

<comment><USER6> Thanks - I wonder if this was cleverly misleading marketing or accidental, whether many people thought the same as you or just a small minority, and if many whether that will help / has helped or hinder/ed Ouya sales...

Food for thought, anyway.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> This looks good. So, what's the status quo on capable living room PCs? I have been using Macs and a PS3 for years now, but if there was a small and good looking box that could handle modern games this might be an option for me. Any recommendations?

<comment><USER8> I recently built a few living-room/gaming PCs which was pretty cheap, and a great learning experience for my 10-year-old son, who is delighted to talk about building his own computer. Most gaming graphics cards these days have HDMI out, which is all you really need.

The folks at Dell/Alienware have made a small box to fit exactly the need you're thinking about, I decided not to go with it because it wasn't available with an SSD, but it's an impressive little bundle. <http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-x51/pd.aspx>

<comment><USER7> Thanks - I would probably put something together with individual parts, as I already did back when we needed to connect PCs to our not so flat TVs via VGA, Component or SCART Adapters. However that box you linked to has a nice form factor and price tag. Not a fan of the Sci-Fi design though, but I just looked for some cases and there's some good stuff available - seems like a performant and A/V-receiver-seized PC is easy to pull off.

<comment><USER8> I used this case for my buildout. It's small, but supports full-size graphics cards and multiple internal hard drive bays. It's more or-less invisible on my bookshelf next to other components. It also doesn't have any drive bays, which looks very sleek and I just download everything from Steam (or similar) these days anyway.

[http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112...](http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112339&Tpk=PC-Q25B)

<comment><USER7> Yes, that's exactly what I already had in mind. To be honest until yesterday I didn't even realize that Mini-ITX could handle the newer sockels and a decent PCIe graphic card. But with knowing that, this is a very good alternative to a console.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Sounds interesting, I just wish I had an adapter for my 360 controller so I could test it out on my TV. I'll play with it on my PC for now.

I'd definitely be interested in building a PC that's small enough to fit under my TV, but powerful enough to run any of my steam games. I wonder if there might be a market in producing those for people. I assume that's what the steam-box is going to be, but apart from this I don't see any hints of that coming out soon.

<comment><USER10> Small computer under your TV depends on the games you play. If like to play Valve's games then it's a tough call because most likely that little box will have fan noise you may not care for. You can make such a box that can play most of the games on Steam just fine without requiring a robust cooling system. You just may not be playing the latest and greatest high-end 3D games; based solely on how much fan noise you are willing to accept.

If you look around there's already a somewhat healthy market of pre-built computers for that purpose. Most of them are HTPC types but some of them can be upgraded enough that will play games nicely.

<comment><USER11> > If like to play Valve's games then it's a tough call because most likely > that little box will have fan noise you may not care for.

I think a lot of gamers including myself can tolerate the fan noise, especially if you have a good sound system. The earlier generations of Xbox 360 were really horrible for fan noise, and most people needed an extra 3rd party fan to keep it from becoming defective; which adds another level of noise (it took me four years before I had a red ring problem). I don't think this was even fixed until the latest gen in 2010.

<comment><USER10> Oh, it's quite true we can tolerate it when more than likely your setup involves your speakers being closer to your ear than the fans in your box. I'd have to imagine most PC gamer's setups are like this. But for a PC hooked up to a TV is not the same unless you are using a surround sound system of some type.

Plus, depending on the games, many PC gamers use headphones.

But that's PC gamers though, I see your point about your 360. Your example is basically what I'm saying, I don't think many people would care for that very much. When it comes to electronics connected to the TV the most common experience is that they produce no noise.

Most HTPCs are built to perform their duty with little to no fan noise but putting in a proper discrete video card can ruin that. You can get accustomed to it over time but you have to get over that initial unfamiliar white noise coming from the general direction of your TV.

The reason I feel that this is important is that if Steam were to start being used on a typical TV environment it will expand beyond games. They've already tested the waters with one movie, granted it was very relevant to their market. Steam is already well suited to be an iTunes and/or Netflix type service.

<comment><USER11> > I'd have to imagine most PC gamer's setups are like this. But for a PC > hooked up to a TV is not the same unless you are using a surround sound > system of some type.

My Xbox 360 along with the 3rd party fans sounded like a leaf blower. You don't need a good surround system, you just need to turn the volume up on your TV or get a cheap sound bar. With PC's it's even cheaper to get a 2.1 speaker system that does the job for like $20.

> But that's PC gamers though, I see your point about your 360. Your example > is basically what I'm saying, I don't think many people would care for that > very much.

People still care but many either tolerate it or work around it based on the games.

<comment><USER10> Turning up the volume to cover up the white noise is not an ideal solution and in many cases not a solution at all. A neighbor in an apartment building may not care for the extra noise coming through the wall. I feel your 360 example is supporting my thought, fan noise is an issue that different people handle differently. You accepted the additional level of white noise in the situation but it's not reasonable to assume every else will too.

> People still care but many either tolerate it or work around it based on the > games.

Of which I totally agreed with. My point is that it's an issue because I expect Steam to expand beyond games. If the box is not built with this in mind then it's a potential issue. To expand into the TV audience market you'll need a box that won't make noise that people who are not accustomed to may not like.

<comment><USER11> > If the box is not built with this in mind then it's a potential issue. To > expand into the TV audience market you'll need a box that won't make noise > that people who are not accustomed to may not like.

I think there's a bigger problem than noise if they want to expand beyond techies and gamers. Ease of installation comes to mind. It's hard to compete against the Apple TVs, Rokus, PS3's and Xbox 360s on that end.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Mobile. This is just screaming for mobile. Please let me dock my 2013 mobile phone with 4 GB RAM and 4 Kepler-PhysX cores with my HDTV and let me play Crysis on it.

You dont even need to port Crysis to be a "mobile" game (touchscreen, etc.). You just need to make it run on the hardware using Android/ios.

I'll bring the Dualshock.

<comment><USER13> >let me dock my 2013 mobile phone with 4 GB RAM and 4 Kepler-PhysX cores with my HDTV and let me play Crysis on it.

Hahahaha, no. (I love the non-gamers on HN. So optimistic. Go look at the current state of emulation and hardware power, it's a bleak situation.) Current desktop graphics technology is still only sorta able to run the Cryengine at full speed, and they're pumping out on the order of 1000(mid- grade)-2500(high-end) GFLOPS.

An iPhone is somewhere between 5 and 15 GFLOPS. So unless we're going to have a 100x leap in graphics bandwidth, I wouldn't expect to be able to play desktop quality PC games off of a mobile phone anytime soon.

Even my CPU (2500k) has higher throughput than the iPhone GPU, at 50-100 depending on the benchmark.

Should be able to run a poker game or Farmville though.

<comment><USER14> I think your definition of "gamer" is different from mine. We don't all play the AAA titles.

I write 3D code for mobile devices, and I'm continually astonished by what these things are capable of, i.e. your comment about poker and Farmville is a bit too much snark. Besides, it seems you're equating game quality with poly count. There are a lot of visually stunning, intelligent games that run great on phones that would be perfect on a larger screen.

<comment><USER15> Honestly, if they can just get TF2 running on an Android phone with HDMI output at over 30FPS, I'd be happy.

<comment><USER16> Did any of the mobile GG2 attempts pan out?

<comment><USER15> As in Gang Garrison 2?

Not really. A Python port, PyGG2, is currently in development, and that _might_ have a chance of mobile support, but I don't expect so. The current GG2 is written in Game Maker. While GM has cross-platform Mac/HTML5/iOS/Android support, we use a custom-built windows-only networking library, so this isn't really an option. Also, we've been meaning to migrate away from GM for quite some time, due to its performance and limitations.

(I used to be a GG2 and PyGG2 dev...)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> > No, this new "Steam TV" isn't going to make our video game consoles go away. > It's not going to turn your Xbox into a doorstop or obviate your PS3

Not by itself, but summed with mobile it will: [http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/when-the-consoles-die- wha...](http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/when-the-consoles-die-what-comes- next)

</comment><comment><USER18> This is something that Zynga should be concerned about. It could be very disruptive to their model. When I saw Gregoire's 'HDMI Dongle' [1] I thought, hmm, here is a way to add value to a TV in a way that doesn't require getting permission from TV makers first. All you need is a decent UI and a social network and all sorts of things are possible.

No idea how Valve is implementing their vision but the idea of having casual games be available like this on a subscription service can be really nice if done well.

[1] <http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/products/hdmidongle.htm>

</comment><comment><USER19> Many people already have HTPC's with Steam to run games on their TV. The only thing this enables (or simplifies) is the use of a gamepad. It still requires an HTPC physically connected to your TV .

</comment><comment><USER20> So I connect my PC to the TV to use a Steam UI, thereby limiting what I can do with the PC...okay

Basically it's just a UI for using a controller while lounging.

</comment><comment><USER21> What I'd like to see now is an integrated XPadder-style system to allow for playing games.

XPadder works OK, but it's kind of a pain to use. It would be nice if you could set up a configuration for a game once, and Steam would remember it every time you played the game.

It would also be nice if people could share their configurations, and maybe when you buy a new game, it would default to the highest rated game-pad configuration.

</comment><comment><USER22> Time to see how well this will work on my tiny diy Llano-based HTPC. I can play Portal smoothly via Steam on my 5-year old Opteron desktop running Ubuntu so I hope I will have no problems with the A6.

</comment><comment><USER23> <http://pastebin.com/73QHDqm4>

For those of us who don't want to give Kotaku pageviews.

<comment><USER24> Why don't some of us want to give Kotaku pageviews?

<comment><USER23> Owned by Gawker, most of their articles are poorly written and with little substance. Not the kind of journalism I want to encourage.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> After using Windows 8 for awhile, I wished there was a way to interact with it through a controller - I think it would work quite well.

<comment><USER26> This has to be one of the biggest mistakes MS has made with Windows 8. They've added the store to (theoretically) make it simple to purchase and play games (and apps), but left out support that many people would prefer when playing these games.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> I'm always confused about Steam news from Valve. In this case it seems to actually be what I expect when I read something about Steam: the clientside application of their game distribution tech.

So many times people talk about Steam when it seems they are really talking about the Source Engine. It's almost a shock to see an article about Steam that really is about the client app.

</comment><comment><USER28> This looks like it might twist the arms (myself included) of the console generation back to the PC.

<comment><USER29> Why? From what I can tell it's just a 10-foot interface shoehorned into the existing version of Steam. I don't think anyone was waiting for this. Why would they be? It doesn't solve the principal issues, like why would I game at a crappier second PC that I have to separately maintain just to have the benefit of the couch?

Why would I put my good desktop in the living room just so I can use a controller in a more traditional environment? I can use a KB/mouse and a controller at my desk or in bed. Steam isn't going to magically be able to bring the graphical quality and versatility of the PC (which are it's primary benefits) to the living room without being forced to sacrifice most of it.

The dev time spent on this would have been much better used as an investment towards a home streaming technology. The Steam box should be an OnLive mircoconsole that uses your desktop PC running Steam as the server. It's perfectly possible, Apple does that exact thing via AirPlay except it uses your iPhone as the server. Try Real Racing 2 on a 1080p AppleTV, your doubts about the technology should vanish.

As it stands, this isn't notable news for anyone unless you're the type to be willing to build and maintain two gaming PCs just so you can play in two different rooms. If you are that type, something tells me lack of a 10-foot interface wasn't the obstacle in your way.

Either that, or be willing to compromise on graphical quality and versatility pretty heavily to get a cut down PC with standardized specs that you can put in the living room for cheaper...

...Wait, isn't that just a console?

<comment><USER30> _I don't think anyone was waiting for this._

Did you mean to say "This doesn't fit my particular use case."? I can name a dozen people off the top of my head that will be excited about this.

General purpose computers are general purpose enough that your attempts to predict the shapes people have their setups arranged in falls flat on its face.

 _As it stands, this isn't notable news for anyone unless you're the type to be willing to build and maintain two gaming PCs just so you can play in two different rooms._

Or keep the beefy computer in the living room as thats the only place they play PC games (as I do).

Or have a TV in their bedroom / want to point their monitor towards the bed and lay back to play (think kids living at home/dorms).

Or don't completely shit their pants over the idea of moving a box from one room to another.

Or are OK with using this box for some not-top-of-the-line games on the couch. The exciting indie titles don't have the budget necessary to make graphically demanding titles. And No, that isn't just a console. Releasing onto a console (even to XBLA) has monetary and certification requirements some developers can't meet or are unwilling to compromise their game to meet.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Is there any word on when the Mac beta will roll out?

</comment><comment><USER32> they could release steam for xbox and ps3 which would stream steam from the pc to that console.

<comment><USER33> Good luck trying to get Sony or MS to allow a third party app store on their closed platforms.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> Big Picture + Raspberry Pi?

<comment><USER35> too underpowered for Steam games

<comment><USER36> Nah, there's plenty of low end games on Steam. A larger issue is that neither Steam nor any of the games sold through it will run on an ARM processor.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> I personally envisioned this to come with hardware (wireless HDMI) [[http://www.chrisnorstrom.com/2011/02/creation-the-steam- cons...](http://www.chrisnorstrom.com/2011/02/creation-the-steam-console-no- its-not-another-set-top-box/)] so that you wouldn't have to have another box next to the TV but instead could keep your PC in your room and just transmit it's audio/video/controller input over to your living room.

From what I've heard wireless HDMI is not at that level of stability and reliability yet.</comment>


The anti crunch hours license - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/996icu/996.ICU/blob/master/LICENSE <comment><USER3> In the best job I ever had in my life, my boss basically told me that she didn't care about the hours I kept or how long I worked every day as long as I got my job done. I usually showed up to work at 12pm and left around 4pm. It ended up being one of the most productive times of my life. I created products that had hundreds of millions of dollars worth of impact on the company bottom line. In my immediate next job I had to keep long hours and for some reasons I wasn't nearly half as productive.

 _Atleast in my life, shorter work hours tend to heavily inversely correlate with my work output._

<comment><USER4> Does this work best if your work is well-planned by someone else? E.g., you have a list of prioritized tickets with requirements complete, and can just code down the list?

I work 32h/wk (mon-thu), and I feel happy with my productivity, but also recognize that I spend tons of time in meetings, clarifying requirements, helping other devs, etc. These aren't all really my role, so I could theoretically optimize them away and hope the invisible tasks get picked up successfully by someone else, but I know we'd have worse outcomes if I wasn't involved and "just" did my explicitly assigned tasks.

Can someone with team lead/management responsibilities optimize for 'job done' this aggressively?

<comment><USER3> _Can someone with team lead /management responsibilities optimize for 'job done' this aggressively?_

I will have an answer for you in a month because I am going to start trying this strategy out in my current job starting this week. :)

<comment><USER5> Please rope me in on this as well, I am interested to know your findings :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I live in Brazil. Under Brazilian labor laws, a work week is defined as 44 hours, with each work day having up to 8 hours. So you just excluded companies that have ever had anyone do more than one hour of (paid) overtime any week. Which is basically every company in my country, considering (occasional, paid) overtime is normal and predicted in the relevant laws.

Here, 12 hour shifts with 36 hour rest periods is also the norm for security guards, etc. (So that 4 can provide 24h security) That results in more than 45 hours every other week.

The license also doesn't specify how to remedy the situation in case it's ever violated, which feels very draconian and not very pragmatic.

<comment><USER7> It's a bit worse than it seems, because lunch breaks are not included, so whereas an American would call his 9-to-5 job a 40 hour work week, it would be equivalent to a 35 hour Brazilian work week. A Brazilian work day is usually 8h30 to 18h18 so that 44h will fit into 5 days. You can see how adding a commute of at least and hour (could easily be 2h or 3h in São Paulo or Rio) will simply eat up your whole day.

I think a reduction of the 44h week is long due in Brazil and I don't understand why there isn't more pressure from workers. They probably don't have the time to protest.

<comment><USER8> >8h30 to 18h18

Can you explain this notation?

<comment><USER9> It seems fairly self-explanatory to me, but the second result of a Google search for "time h notation" gave me this (the first was documentation for the time.h header):

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_and_time_notation_in_Fr...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_and_time_notation_in_France)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> I-Iuw Before this comment section gets any more toxic, please understand the context.

The org on GitHub that developed this license is called 996ICU ([https://996.icu/#/en_US](https://996.icu/#/en_US)). It is a (very large) group of Chinese developers that are upset with the common practice of working 9am to 9pm, 6 days a week.

Please be mindful of the fact that lots of developers around the world work under genuinely awful conditions, and that your (x times y) work week is a privilege earned by a long history of labour activism in the Western world.

(P.S. This is a protest, not a legally binding license)

<comment><USER10> > your (x times y) work week is a privilege earned by a long history of labour > activism in the Western world.

You have no proof of this. The (x times y) work week _for manual labourers_ was earned by a long history of labour activism.

Good working conditions for highly-skilled in-demand work arise naturally through supply and demand.

<comment><USER11> I would love to have examples of good working conditions being arrived at naturally. Given that there are many programmers of various talent levels throughout the industry I have noted a number of dark patterns in programming work: long hours, pay that refuses to follow value of work (Apple makes 400k profit per employee), reduction in workspace quality, etc.

We can all pretend that we have more economic power than our highly paid blue collar peers that worked in highly unionized work forces in the past, but the programmers that make the kind of money for that to be true are very rare. Nearly 30 years ago my father made 70k as a union welder. It is highly unlikely that I will be able to match that salary street inflation, and the world is more expensive: education and health care could eat us alive at any moment.

I don't know how much of our effort the capital owning class needs to strip from us before we take advantage of the massive productive capacities we have before we make it fair again, but I assure you, it will be organized, not natural.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> This license excludes any company that practices a 10x4 (10 hours for 4 day a week) work schedule which positive things have been said about previously. Also excludes companies with hourly jobs that work more than 45 hours but get paid 2/3x for extra hours. A lot of government agencies with unions have employees that love doing that since it gives them a lot of money.

edit: Hospitals as well since employees work odd shifts such as 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off for ER doctors, or 6 days in a row for lab technicians (with more days off every other week), etc.

<comment><AUTHOR> It's a hard problem. To cover all such cases, the license would essentially have to be as complex as a developed country's labour laws. But adding complexity adds loopholes that could be exploited, for instance if a rule just allowed "working more than 45 hours for 2/3x overtime pay", a company could just reduce the main pay by two thirds for non-overtime work. Countering this might require some reference to local minimum wages or average wages, which makes the license significantly more complex to apply across jurisdictions.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Overworking is a problem on a national scale, because it leads to the decay of every aspect of society that is not work. The most critical aspect is that it leads to the decay of families. It can lead to a big problem where the population is much lower and the people that do exist have had little invested into them as children. It also leads to a decay of the civil duty to shepherd your government, although the Chinese would consider that a good thing. It is tempting to eat the cake today but the price will be paid in full in one generation.

</comment><comment><USER14> Similar comments made about the "No Evil" license apply: [https://wiki.debian.org/qa.debian.org/jsonevil](https://wiki.debian.org/qa.debian.org/jsonevil)

</comment><comment><USER15> Ah, yet another "open-source if you follow my principles" license. It should be an uninteresting fact at this point that yes, you can in fact put whatever clauses you want in your software license.

Note that this is a license restriction addon, not a standalone license. To use, ammend to and reference by another license. Note that this removes "open- source" status from the original license if it is open-source, according to OSI's "No Discrimination Against Persons or Groups" definition.

<comment><USER16> Well of course, because open source is about ignoring the ability of software developers to do good in the world, their abilities to change things, so instead companies can make money off the backs of software developers who are almost always working for free in their spare time. All in the hope that a software developer might get hired to maintain a project that they thought up.

The point of open source is to not be political, but that is an inane statement. Choosing to 'not be political', is itself a choice for the status quo. Choosing to 'not discriminate against any particular group, either positively or negatively' in a world where there is implicit, mostly-unspoken discrimination, is an implicit choice to continue that forward.

So why should those values be something to aspire towards? The status quo is a world in which the majority of people are not being payed what they are worth, so the people doing the paying can further inflate their ridiculously large bank balances.

I am probably the last person to quote MLK in common conversation, because a lot of his quotes have been misused or mispurposed to argue for something that he personally did not support. But, right now this one feels incredible pertinent:

"" I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; ""

<comment><USER17> Right, but MLK would not have identified himself as a "white moderate except ___," nor said "I like order, but also ___". His point was he had a different worldview from the white moderate, and tacking on to the white moderate would not have accomplished his goals.

Open source is definitely political, but it's also a very specific political movement. There can be other political movements with other goals. The reasons that open source advocates dislike licenses with restrictions on use are not just "we don't want to be political" or "we don't want to rock the boat." Some have a moral/ethical opinion that you should not restrict use via copyright, usually that you should not be _able_ to restrict use via copyright. Some have a pragmatic opinion that attempts to restrict use will lead to worse outcomes.

The 996.ICU folks seem like they would be better served with their own movement that doesn't go by the name of "open source." We don't need to add that label to them.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Labor tech is the future. Next up block chain mutual aid networks.

</comment><comment><USER19> I support the general idea of not having to work 12 hours a day for 6 days. That's crazy. But there are other venues for labour activism than changing the license. And in other Chinese industries that aren't related to software at all, labour activism is quite successful as well. So there is no need to resort to license changes. As for your PS, there is no indication that it's a protest and not just a license.

<comment><USER20> Uhm... of course there is?

[https://github.com/996icu/996.ICU](https://github.com/996icu/996.ICU)

[https://996.icu/#/en_US](https://996.icu/#/en_US)

Even on HN: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19507620](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19507620)

The link just shows you one particular file in the repo, but that should be obvious to anyone who ever used GitHub.

<comment><USER19> From the github page:

> The purpose of this license is to prevent 996-style companies from using the > software or codes under the license, and force those companies to balance > their work schedule.

Doesn't sound like protest to me, but like extortion. Either you do what we want, or you can't use our software.

<comment><USER21> That's not extortion. If you don't like the terms don't use the software.

<comment><USER19> Well then what I-Iuw said above in the PS is bullocks.

> (P.S. This is a protest, not a legally binding license)

It is a legally binding license and not just mere protest. That's all I claimed.

<comment><USER20> Yeah, that was poorly worded. It's still a protest though, and that license is simply a one way to protest.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> so hospitals can never use this? their doctors and nurses, who are "employees" regularily work 12 hour shifts. the same goes for first responders

<comment><USER23> I hope so. Hospitals make their staff work counter-productive hours, as if they couldn't function with 8 hour shifts.

And you don't need to put double quotes around employees. They are employees and deserve to work in a good environment like everyone else

<comment><USER24> Those long shifts are there to protect patient safety - they reduce the number of dangerous handovers. Part of being a doctor or in something like the military is putting other people first rather than having a comfortable short day.

<comment><USER25> Handovers are dangerous, but making decisions that need your full attention after hard working 11:30 hours is also dangerous. And sometime doctors have even longer shifts.

It's an insane culture.

My guess is that it is easy to spot error in handovers (X didn't say/write this, Y didn't hear/read that). But errors due that you have worked 11:30 hours are more difficult to isolate.

<comment><USER24> Why do you think the hospitals do long shifts then? Just for fun?

They don't do it for people who aren't doing handovers, like general practitioners who can work half-days just a couple of times a week if they want, or administrations. So we know it isn't inherent for doctors or for the staffing of the hospital. Only for those doing handovers...

<comment><USER26> > _Why do you think the hospitals do long shifts then? Just for fun?_

Because the culture of US medical training was initiated by a coke addict, and it's extremely conservative and slow-moving.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Stewart_Halsted](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Stewart_Halsted)

<comment><USER24> But medical shifts are like this the world-over.

<comment><USER26> Why do you believe that?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_resident_work_hours#EU...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_resident_work_hours#EU_regulation)

<comment><USER24> That's exactly what I mean - <USER2>

[https://www.theguardian.com/society/2009/nov/05/nhs- confiden...](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2009/nov/05/nhs-confidential- patient-care-study)

In the UK they always worked long shifts because it's safer. They're trying to stop them, and it's less safe.

Why do you think the reason the UK has always worked long hours is due to a drug addiction in the US rather than experience in safety?

<comment><USER25> > _Two case studies involving teenagers who died highlighted the failures to > consult senior medical staff early on._

It looks like they are not hiring enough senior staff, not handover problems.

<comment><USER24> > shortening rota hours had led to more shift changes between medical teams > and greater chances for mistakes to occur

<comment><USER25> It may be true, but for some reason they decide to select two cases where the problem was nor handover but lack of senior staff.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Is this kind of lisence enforcement possible? Any prior art?

<comment><USER28> This _type_ of license? Maybe. Depends on jurisdiction.

_This_ license? Probably not.

Making your own license is hard. The best advice is probably don't try unless you're a licensing expert or have unlimited access to one.

<comment><USER29> [https://github.com/kattgu7/996-License- Draft/](https://github.com/kattgu7/996-License-Draft/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Copyright license only covers copying the software or source code. This seems like a "terms of use" that they tried to shove into a copyright license which I don't think would hold up in court. This license would cover the package distribution site/provider/github, not the person/entity using the package. The entity/person using software would only trigger the copyright license if they distributed the package(eg: putting the package into a mobile app or selling the software).

</comment><comment><USER26> How is business structured in China? Are there impediments to programmers operating as consultants and setting their own hours?

</comment><comment><USER31> People should be careful what they wish for. Far too many Americans are trying to survive on part time jobs.

</comment><comment><USER32> As a consultant, I have a 50% rush fee. But for that, I've at times worked ~20 hours per day.

<comment><USER33> I think you technically aren't affected by that license, as you are not an employee.

<comment><USER32> I know. I'm just arguing that asking for more work is OK, if you're willing to pay for it. Many years ago, I worked a union job (chemical plant) and we got 1.5x wages for overtime, and 2x wages for working legal holidays.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> Free software (free as in speech) means you accept that others will build on your ideas in ways that you don't control.

</comment><comment><USER35> You have no clue why someone is working more than 10 hours consecutively or more than 45 hours a week. Maybe that's something they're being paid quite well to do, and maybe they want to do so. This type of restriction just screams "I want to feel like a good person."

You're within your rights to use this restriction, but it's equally as ridiculous as a restriction forcing employees not to eat toast on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, or Thursdays.

I hope this doesn't catch on.

Edit: If the main target here is China, how much do you really believe Chinese companies care about Western copyright laws?

<comment><USER17> Right, this is perhaps the fundamental objection to social-good software licenses: how many people who don't engage in social good do respect copyright?

The GPL works because it's pretty unambiguous about what exactly your obligations are, it's pretty unambiguous when there's a violation of those obligations, and because there are entities that do care deeply about copyright (like, oh, Microsoft and Oracle and IBM) that you'd like to affect.

Any license of the form "You must not use this code to wage war." is not going to get respected. The military doesn't care if you sue them.

Any license of the form "You must obey laws" (like this one, " _The above license is only granted to entities that act in concordance with local labor laws_ ") is not going to get respected. Either the entity was going to obey laws, in which case it's redundant, or they weren't, in which case what do they care about copyright.

Any license that's five lines long and tells a US court they have to decide whether a Chinese entity is complaint with Chinese labor law is just ... not going to work the way you want it to.

Any license that restricts _use_ and not _distribution_ has the practical problem of being difficult to enforce. If your code runs inside Palantir's systems or on a Patriot missile or as part of the PRISM backend, how will you ever know? The AGPL skirts this line by retaining the "distribution" concept and just defining networked use as distribution (and I think even that is questionable) but anything where you're not actually seeing the infringement is not going to be feasible to enforce.

<comment><USER33> > Any license of the form "You must obey laws" (like this one, "The above > license is only granted to entities that act in concordance with local labor > laws") is not going to get respected. Either the entity was going to obey > laws, in which case it's redundant, or they weren't, in which case what do > they care about copyright.

What about companies that see respecting laws as a tradeoff between having less profits and getting fined? If breaking the law implies an additional fine due to this license, it may tip the balance the other way.</comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: Kmdr.sh, CLI tool for explaining commands from your terminal - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/ediardo/kmdr.sh <comment><USER2> Sure I'll put in my command into a tool that doesn't make it clear that it's using an api to do what it does. Why can't this all be done locally and the options found through manpages?

<comment><AUTHOR> Noted. We have to add more details as to why kmdr cli today doesn't pull from your system.

The biggest obstacle for doing that is parsing manpages. Kmdr uses explainshell.com's parser for extracting options from manpages, but the parser fails to detect many options and subcommands' options. Kmdr's repository of definitions extends past man page parsing thanks to human verification and additions that help us to explain commands with subcommands, e.g. docker, kubectl, docker, git, npm, yarn, pip, etc..

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Hi, you can check the demo website at [https://kmdr.sh](https://kmdr.sh) with no installation required.</comment>