Ubuntu 17.10: Return of the Gnome - <AUTHOR> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/11/ubuntu-17-10-return-of-the-gnome/ <comment><USER3> This certainly brings back some memories. This is what I wrote in HN when I first encountered Unity.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2504972](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2504972)

HN tells me this was 2402 days ago. Oh how quickly the kilodays fly by. But I am glad that after a mere twenty four hundred days Canonical finally listened to my advice.

I have been using mostly Xubuntu during the unity years so this thing did not affect me much. So I can look at the unity mistake not with anger but with interest and curiosity.

And when you look at the whole thing dispassionately and with perspective, you have to admit that this was not a mistake that Canonical made exclusively. It was a mistake the entire computing and software industry made. It was one of those strange turns into dead ends that happen to industries sometimes.

After the first ipad came out, the entire industry was absolutely certain that the future was tablets. Everyone started changing their user interfaces for tablets. And they did not care how much their customers complained, they just forced it down their throats because that was the future darn it.

But it turned out that the tablet future never happened. Even now I had to pay extra for a touch screen laptop because there was no other choice, when I "use" the touchscreen option only inadvertently.

The good thing about linux is that they can never railroad you into anything. So I switched to Xubuntu and that was that.

<comment><USER4> The problem is, Gnome 3 is way more of a "tablet" operating system than Unity turned out to be. I'd take a halfway point between Gnome 3 and MATE.

<comment><USER5> I've used Cinnamon, MATE, Gnome 2, and KDE before making the switch to i3. I highly recommend switching to a tiling WM.

<comment><USER6> I am looking for tilling window manager for Wayland. Sadly I couldn't find any stable one yet. But SwayWM seems promising.

<comment><USER7> I'm using Sway on my notebook, but I still have Plasma as a fallback. General window management works reasonably well, but some particular Wayland protocol extensions are missing (for example, relative pointer motion, without which games like Minecraft don't work).

<comment><USER8> This. It's easy to just hit C-M-F2 and start an Xorg server if necessary. And, until now, I've had to do that way more often because of bad GUI applications that ignore the possibility of there being a tiling WM instead of problems with wayland...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Absolutely not for me. When Gnome and Canonical both went crazy (Gnome 2 -> 3 and Unity even existing, respectively) I stayed with Gnome 2 for a while, switched to Mate for a bit, and eventually found that KDE 4 had settled down and was just as customizable as KDE 3 was (for my purposes, at least), and have been using Kubuntu ever since.

I don't mind them experimenting with new ways of doing things at all, I just really don't understand why this needs to be done in a way that _prevents_ people from doing things the way they've done it before if they decide they don't like the way you're doing things.

I switched from Konqueror to Dolphin after it handled what I needed. I switched from Virtual Desktops to "Activities" after it was also good enough for my needs. I never used widgets in their original usage (placed seemingly at random on the desktop) but use them inside of the task bar. I use sloppy focus follow mouse and mouse raise only on titlebar click so I can use windowed applications in actual nontrivial ways.

It doesn't matter if you glossed over that run-on paragraph above. tl;dr: KDE can have opinions, so can I. At least KDE respects that.

<comment><USER10> _I don 't mind them experimenting with new ways of doing things at all, I just really don't understand why this needs to be done in a way that prevents people from doing things the way they've done it before if they decide they don't like the way you're doing things._

Same reason it happened with Firefox: trying to attract more users. The broader you want your user base to be, the less customizable you have to be. Regular users can't handle heavy customization: it's too complicated and they freeze up.

Power users interested in extreme customization of their environment will always be a tiny niche. Add to that the Anna Karenina Principle [0] and it makes even less sense to try to compete for such users.

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Karenina_principle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Karenina_principle)

<comment><USER11> >Same reason it happened with Firefox: trying to attract more users.

The thing is that Linux users are self-selected power users. If you want something to just do your work, you'll stay with Windows or macOS (or whatever your computer came with).

And while I don't need the power of i3, I don't see why my desktop can't have a maximize button

<comment><USER12> > The thing is that Linux users are self-selected power users. If you want > something to just do your work, you'll stay with Windows or macOS (or > whatever your computer came with).

Not always, I had my dad using linux for years because he got a new lease of life out of an old machine and this was a time when windows would get random malware installed just from regular web browsing. The default solitaire that came with Kubunutu alone satisfied 90% of his computing needs. The configurability of KDE was a constant issue though, even when I locked the the taskbar/desktop he found a way to screw it up.

The problem isn't configurability, just the way it's handled. KDE (at least in my terribly outdated experience) adds all kinds of options in things like right click menus or application menus, this confuses and scares ordinary users. I find the gnome approach of having a dedicated app (tweak tool) for configuration is much better for ordinary/casual users, it moves all the clutter to a dedicated place instead of stringing it out everywhere. For power users there is nothing wrong with putting the config in a dot file or scripting language.

<comment><USER13> I too have installed Kubuntu for many, many people. Literally every week I would have to reset someone's borked KDE settings because they accidentally clicked or right clicked or dragged in the wrong place. After install I would simply ` cp .kde{,.BAK}` and set up SSH to restore it when needed.

For one user I even added `cp .kde{.BAK,}` to their login script. I wish that I remembered how, actually, because there seems to be only one way to get that to run before KDE reads it and I can't remember now.

I love configurability and everything from my fountain pen to my car is heavily modified. But normal people cannot seem to deal with the ability to modify their surroundings.

<comment><USER14> If accidentally clicking or dragging results in messing up their settings, I'd say the problem is a brittle user interface, not normal people having problems configuring their surroundings. If normal people cannot use the user interface, then the user interface has a design failure ("bug"), by definition. (Unless the intended audience is not normal people, but if that is the case for Linux, we shouldn't be installing Linux for normal users.)

<comment><USER13> I agree 100%. KDE 4 was terrific, and it came _so close_ to being great for normal users. But the settings were just too easy to set.

<comment><USER15> What you're saying is actually an age old UI error, related to this: [https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/12/choices/](https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/12/choices/)

Search in the page for "half the screen was grey" :)

<comment><USER13> I remember that page well. Joel was probably the first "blog".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> For the past, oh, 10 years or so, it feels like every time I try a new release of one of the prominent Linux DEs, I keep going back to Xfce after a short while, because it "just works", can be customized exactly how I want it to be, and doesn't try to break my flow with every major release, because someone in UX has a new Grand Unifying Theory of What Users Really Want (Even if They Don't Know It).

<comment><USER17> I'm actually somewhat concerned that in the move to Wayland those of us who just want the window manager, and not a desktop environment will be forgotten. To me it seems silly to use a lot of processing power on a desktop environment that want be seen or used most of the time anyway.

Evilwm still seems like the window manager that got thing mostly right to me. It draws the windows and there's a keyboard short cut for opening an Xterm (and for moving and resizing the windows), you don't really need much more than that. Sadly it seem that the focus for the simplest window managers is tiling, which I also to like.

Hopefully a non-tiling, dead simple window manager for Wayland will appear in the future.

<comment><USER18> You should see if any of these fits your needs:

[https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Wayland#Window_managers...](https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Wayland#Window_managers_and_desktop_shells)

I too have been longing for an Openbox port for Wayland but have sticked to Sway in the meanwhile.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> I upgraded to 17.10. I use an old small screen Thinkpad and Gnome 3 used the top third of the screen for menus! I tried all of the plugins to no avail. I switched back to Unity because I like to see my screen. I hope to see a gnome 3 extension to mimic the unified top bar thing

</comment><comment><USER20> What I find really useful in (default?) Unity:

* Ctrl + Alt + left/right/up/down to switch workspaces

* Ctrl + Alt + Shift + left/right/up/down to move the current window to a different workspace

* Alt + Left mouse button to drag windows

* Alt + Middle mouse button to resize windows

* Drag a window to the left or right edge to resize it to that half of the screen.

No idea how much of this is Gnome/remains in 17.10. Or how easy it is to set up. I guess I need to give it a try.

<comment><USER21> How it works on Gnome (since "shell"/3.x IIRC):

* Super + Alt + up/down to switch workspaces

* Super + Alt + Shift + up/down to move the current window to a different workspace

* Super + left click to drag windows

* Super + left/right to resize to half screen

* Super + up/down to maximize/restore

* Drag a window to the left or right edge to resize it to that half of the screen.

hth

<comment><USER22> > * Super + Alt + up/down to switch workspaces

> * Super + Alt + Shift + up/down to move the current window to a different > workspace

These are pgup/pgdown, I believe?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> I really like Ubuntu 17.10 sans Ubuntu. I'm running the default gnome-session. Its fast and Wayland has made Gnome feel really ... fluid? It doesn't _feel_ like a Linux machine anymore. Compositing _feels_ better than a Windows or OSX machine.

Highly recommended.

</comment><comment><USER4> I'm holding out hope for an Ubuntu 18.04 Unity Remix. Unity 7 just handles so many things expertly when you compare it side by side with Gnome.

</comment><comment><USER24> FTA : "The last few Ubuntu desktop releases have been about as exciting as OpenSSH releases"

I felt the same with the last Debian stable. But I was kinda happy about that. Because it means it's reaching maturity.

<comment><USER25> I wholeheartedly agree. What I really want is a super conservative LTS system that keeps the core - OS, window manager, file manager, network, etc - <USER2> super stable and old versions, and my apps - Firefox, Emacs, Spotify, ... - updated to the latest release. I'm tired of "new" desktop environments, and rewrites that means I'll now have to live with years of bug fixing until I get a stable system.

I'm hoping that Ubuntu slowly becomes this, especially with the move to the very stable Gnome 3.

<comment><USER26> Then use CentOS?

<comment><USER25> I should add that I also want to use the most standardized desktop environment I can find. Which these days seems to be Win10, macOS, Ubuntu, and maybe a KDE based one?

My argument is the same as what Linus points out in this rant (5:33): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PmHRSeA2c8&feature=youtu.be...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PmHRSeA2c8&feature=youtu.be&t=333)

I want life to be easy for app developers, having to target a gazillion different Linux based platforms kind of sucks.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> I was hesitant to switch from Gnome to Unity. Interestingly, I'm now nervous to switch back. I guess one grows accustomed to and fond of what one uses.

<comment><USER28> I felt the same way, been along for the ride since Ubuntu 10.04. I just switched to 17.10 a couple weeks ago and I'd say it's my favorite Linux desktop I've ever used.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> "Stagnation had turned Ubuntu into just another distro; now it's interesting all over again."

Jesus, wtf. I hate popular tech press like this and wired so much

<comment> yjftsjthsd-h Yeah, it seems like a stretch to call the biggest distro "just another distro".

<comment><USER30> MATE has been by far the biggest distro for last 4 years

<comment><USER30> Pfff it was MINT, not MATE

<comment><USER31> Also, no evidence that it was ever the most popular one, other than in Distrowatch clicks.

<comment><USER30> I disagree, even without DW, Ubuntu should have an advantage in many many polls, and in automated measurements. Ubuntu has a non-insubstantial corporate install base that should've been registered in user agent statistics, while MINT is a wholly community driven project that don't even have an official "default" browser.

<comment><USER31> I think you've misunderstood me. Mint is #1 on Distrowatch. That's pretty much it. Everything else suggests that Ubuntu is more popular.

So my parent "no evidence other than DW clicks" is aimed at Mint, not Ubuntu.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> I don't understand why everyone seems to think Gnome 3 is a tablet UI. I had a touchscreen laptop for a couple of years and my experience is that it really isn't.

It's actually not bad as a keyboard-driven UI, though: it's a rare event that I'll trigger the overlay with the mouse, or even interact with it at all with the mouse beyond dragging windows into different workspaces or dragging workspaces around (the latter being the one thing I don't think you can do with the keyboard).

<comment><USER33> Because of the big toolbar? When I first saw it I assumed it would be mobile oriented.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> I use Ubuntu daily, so I ended up stepping onto this land mine. Overall, I don't think Gnome is completely unusable, but some little things made me jump back to Unity (which can be chosen when logging in).

<comment><USER4> In 17.10, Unity has better desktop scaling, performs better when doing a menu search, makes better use of screen space, has more advanced virtual desktop capabilities, has the best global menu on any linux desktop, and while isn't bug free is fairly predictable.

Gnome is very customizable, is more attractive looking on Ubuntu 17.10 out of the box, has better notifications, and doesn't generate the questionable error messages that Unity does.

That being said, it feels like replacing a Toyota with a Buick.

<comment><USER35> Yeah, just don't try to disable one extension or your desktop will freeze for a few _minutes_.

Damn, I love javascript on the desktop.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> Gnome3 is much worse than Unity ever was.

The difference is that Unity was getting better while Gnome is getting worse. The people at Gnome are lacking even the most basic knowledge when it comes to UX. The whole DE is a clusterfuck.

</comment><comment><USER37> Can someone explain to me what HUD means in this context? They say HUD is gone, and GNOME developers are strongly against ever having one. The screenshots show something looking like an overlay with global search. To me, that's what a HUD is.

<comment><USER38> [https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ubuntu+unity+hud](https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ubuntu+unity+hud)

<comment><USER37> Ahhh they mean the per-application HUD. That is indeed tremendously useful, like the OS X searchable menus and Sublime's command palette. I can't see why anyone would be against that functionality.

<comment><USER7> If I had to guess: Because GNOME devs pursue their religious quest for simplicity ^W dumbing things down so far that they cannot acknowledge anymore that an application might have more than 5 menu items.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> I switched to Gnome for 17.10 (Gnome proper, not Ubuntu Gnome) and it's been amazing.

<comment><USER40> I've had the exact opposite reaction to the change. So many common actions seem needlessly difficult. Take –for example– joining a wifi network. In Unity, you'd click on the wifi icon in the upper-right, then click on the network you want to join. Two clicks. In Gnome, you click in the upper-right, then click on the wifi icon to expand options, then click on "Select Network", then click on the network you want to join, then click "Connect". Five clicks! It's absurd.

The story is similar for things like power settings or selecting sound input/output sources. I wish the Gnome team would imitate macOS or Windows instead of coming up with their own uniquely frustrating interfaces.

<comment><USER41> That's... odd.

It's been a long time since I've used a full desktop environment, but back sometime around Ubuntu 10.04 it was by default the two-click Unity version you described. Even nowadays (on 16.04) if I start nm-applet, it's just two clicks.

<comment> yjftsjthsd-h Yes, if you use nm-applet, with a tray icon (which GNOME threw out), as opposed to what they've baked into the panel, then it works.

Progress! /s

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> I gave a chance to GNOME 3 times in last couple of years with Fedora 24, 25 and 26 and it was equally bad everytime. Memory Leaks reduced it to a crawling mess in a few hours of uptime, the desktop would freeze up permanently while doing even most basic task like switching windows or bringing up their _Expose-thing_ , mouse will start jittering and lagging anytime icons/textures were being loaded, extensions and themes broke again and again. Who would have though putting a Javascript interpreter in the critical pipeline of (what was supposed to be) a reponsive animation-guided GUI would be a bad idea?

Gave KDE a shot and beside all the bloat ans slowness, the damn thing kept crashing on my lock screen. Seriously?

I have switched to Sway now which itself is far from perfect (GTK3 apps keep breaking now and again, visible tooltips in XWayland windows prevent workspace switching) but at least it doesn't hang up my machine every couple of hours or prevent me from unlocking it.

How the hell did we got here? What exactly are the priorities of people working on this stuff? Here's hoping that XFCE gets ported to Wayland soon enough.

<comment><USER43> Well, have you reported the bugs, or helped debug them?

<comment><USER44> it's a nice theory, but in my experience most open source projects don't pay too much attention to bug reports.

edit: sounds like bug-fixing nowadays in gnome may be better than i remembered / have experienced.

<comment><USER45> Anecdotal and late to the party, but I once encountered a bug in the Fedora installer. The installer guided me through the process of reporting the bug, including screenshot taking, including and uploading. It told me helpful tips on writing the bug report itself. I believe it even guided me on how to create an account, and so I got frequent updates in my spam account on how the bug got fixed and when and what happened with it.

Recently I tried out their new Fedora 27 release, did the same steps to reproduce the bug, and no bug encountered! I was extremely impressed, being totally new to open source and the development of it.

Your experience may have been neutral at worst, mine was super positive. I highly recommend you try! I got a fun experience out of that little tech adventure.

<comment><USER44> Wow, that's a really nice experience.

I should note in fairness that many bugs I report into Apple's black hole of a bug reporting tool also don't end up fixed. Maybe I just report weird bugs :-)

(An example of one I reported against Mac OS that got emailed as fixed, but still happens, though less frequently: Sometimes when alt-tabbing, the system will act as though the tab key were never released.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> I love it. I'm back on vanilla Ubuntu.

<comment><USER47> Glad to see an actually positive comment - I've just installed on my desktop after being mostly a mac user for the past few years (before that unity/gnome 2), and I'm seriously impressed. Everything is so smooth and the UI is both beautiful and functional.

Great job, Canonical!

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> Last time I've used Ubuntu was about 5 years ago. And it seems to look the same now. I wonder if anything meaningful was achieved during that time in terms of UI/UX besides switching desktop environments back and forth.

<comment> castle-bravo Out of curiosity, what did you use in the meantime?

<comment><USER48> Well, I'm with Apple now.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER49> I upgraded from 17.04 to 17.10. The widget in my Gnome Terminal window that shows me how many columns and rows the terminal has (if I change them) disappeared. I posted this to the Ubuntu forums, they said Wayland kills this feature, but if I fall back to Gnome over Xorg it would work. Which it does. I hope they don't deprecate Xorg because I'm sure there are a lot of things like this which work in X but don't work yet automagically with Wayland.

</comment><comment><USER50> "It's worth noting that in my testing, GNOME uses slightly more RAM and CPU than Unity on the same hardware doing the same things. The increase is only about 10 percent more on the RAM, and, let's face it, neither of them are lightweight desktops. If you want something light, try i3."

Best advice in the article ;) I did try i3 and like it a lot. I have it running on a Chromebook now as my main machine.

</comment><comment><USER51> I just wish Gnome 2 was left as is and Gnome 3 would named Gnome Tablet Edition with those big useless buttons on a 27" screen where I click them with my mouse instead of my big fingers. When Unity was introduced, I learnt to use AwesomeWM (similar to i3) and even manually configuring it was a better experience then both Unity and Gnome 3. Alternatively, I used LXDE, which is simple enough for me.

</comment><comment><USER52> One I never understood why people complained of Gnome changing their UI until 3.26 where they removed support for tray icons. Apps like deluge and megasync became a mess(megasync refuses to work) because there's no tray icon. Unfortunately I have been unable to find any DE that has the same navigation style

</comment><comment><USER53> The article says that Ubuntu 17.10 is exciting again.

I don't want exciting.

Particularly when they drop nice features like the HUD and the integrated global menu and title bar.

And that's coming from a MATE user who never got on with Unity. I will hang on to my useful places menu, my functioning file explorer and refined taskbar thank you very much!

<comment><USER54> Removing global menu and placing the clock in the middle was a mistake. Now I have 2-3 lines less code in my editor, so why was wasting space considered a good idea?

<comment><USER55> I can think of having to ship in time for a "test run" 17.10 release (the one before the 18.04 LTS) as the only justification. I hope it will be worth it and they will be able to prepare 18.04 LTS all the better because of that. You don't have to update the OS every 6 months, anyway.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER56> Ubuntu won't succeed on the desktop until it starts shipping with cinnamon as a default

<comment><USER7> Poe's Law at work.

</comment></comment><comment><USER57> All distros "look" the same to me, because I use a tiling window manager. I don't see a desktop, I just see what I'm working on. The gnome2/gnome3/unity silliness was partly why.

</comment><comment><USER58> I've tried Gnome in the past, didn't get it, and moved back to either Mate or Unity. Then I heard that Ubuntu would move to Gnome, and I decided to make an effort. It turned out that the default settings make Gnome into something I really don't like, while it's really customizable into something that resembles Mate close enough. I haven't gone back since.

The Gnome project should add two shortcuts on the desktop with scripts to set Gnome to mimick Mate or Unity, so users get their old desktop back with a few clicks.

</comment><comment><USER59> I accidentally my whole Fedora-installation yesterday, so I guess this is a good a chance as any to try out how Ubuntu feels on the desktop these days.

I guess that's life :)

<comment><USER25> I switched from Fedora to Ubuntu for this. All I want is a canonical (no pun intended) Linux distro so that app developers doesn't have to target a gazillion variations. So I really want to see Ubuntu succeed.

So far, I've had my laptop freeze completely 3-4 times a week, fans spinning, not responding to any input in any way shape or form. This didn't happen in Fedora. Other than that, it's basically Fedora with different colors.

</comment></comment><comment><USER60> I have read most of the comments. I find myself chuckling at the memory of people telling me that using cwm with X is too...whatever. I haven't had to change my workflow for something like eight years and it's still being developed with incremental improvements. I don't understand the desire to constantly mess with the dashboard when all I want to do is drive the car.

</comment><comment><USER61> This must be the ugliest OS of the three main user-focused ones.

I mean even the colors are ugly, why put dark orange colors, who thought it is a good idea?

<comment><USER17> Look is subjective, but I not going to argue that the default Ubuntu colour scheme isn't absolutely horrible. A new colour scheme could make the default Ubuntu desktop more approachable to new users.

</comment></comment><comment><USER62> "Ubuntu's developers have put considerable effort into making GNOME cosmetically similar to Unity". I am a "ubuntu gnome" user since the start of unity (I have used it 2 weeks, it was unusable for me). Do you mean that I will have to accept the defects of gnome plus the ugly misbehaving unity dock combined ? Should I leave for fedora ?

<comment><USER26> It's more like Gnome + Extensions = Look of Unityish. I used to use Gnome 3 Vanilla + Extensions and didn't like Unity either.

Now I am using 17.10 and this new Ubuntu Gnome thingy and I am enjoying it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER63> After ubuntu announced the return of gnome as it primary DE I started looking for another distro/ubuntu variant with a good DE. So far ubuntu MATE and ubuntu budgie have been the better ones. So if you are in the market for a new ubuntu flavor you should try both.

</comment><comment><USER64> Kde3 was the best environment ever.

</comment><comment><USER65> Anyone tried it recently? How stable is it? Particularly, does it support multiple external displays with different scaling properly on Intel with Wayland?

Unfortunately the live USB allows to test only on Xorg, Wayland is not available.

<comment><USER7> As a rule of thumb, if your GPU is AMD or Intel, then if OpenGL applications work under X11, then Wayland is going to work, too.

If your GPU is Nvidia, tough luck: [https://drewdevault.com/2017/10/26/Fuck- you-nvidia.html](https://drewdevault.com/2017/10/26/Fuck-you-nvidia.html) (this is from the lead developer of Sway, a Wayland-only window manager)

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> I hope feature parity with the Unity Ubuntu is a priority. [https://youtu.be/gdX606Hjt04?t=5m24s](https://youtu.be/gdX606Hjt04?t=5m24s)

</comment><comment><USER66> I tried do-release-upgrade on 17.04, and it failed. Maybe they should work on that first?

(The reason it failed was that I have the arm64 architecture installed to get cross tools, and those repos somehow return 404.)

</comment><comment><USER55> Can we still use 32-bit Ubuntu? Is it just 32-bit _iso_ that has been discontinued?

I find it dodgy to discontinue 32-bit Ubuntu, as I remember it has been promised to exist until 18.04.

</comment><comment><USER67> Can't one just get a paid version without the amazon search? I know it can be uninstalled, but still, feels better that no such thing exists in the first place.

<comment><USER68> It's literally just an affiliate link.

<comment><USER69> It's not though.. because of how it works. When you enable online searching, it sends those searches off to Ubuntu's servers and 3rd parties.. and Ubuntu explicitly says they will collect and store everything you type into the dash along with your IP address.

And because of how central the dash is to Ubuntu... it's a huge piece of spyware.

 _Depending on whether you have opted in or out (see the "Online Search" section below), we may also send your keystrokes as a search term to productsearch.ubuntu.com and selected third parties so that we may complement your search results with online search results from such third parties including: Facebook, Twitter, BBC and Amazon. Canonical and these selected third parties will collect your search terms and use them to provide you with search results while using Ubuntu._

 _By searching in the dash you consent to:

        the collection and use of your search terms and IP address in this way; and

        the storage of your search terms and IP address by Canonical and such selected third parties (if applicable).

_

[https://www.ubuntu.com/legal/terms-and-policies/privacy- poli...](https://www.ubuntu.com/legal/terms-and-policies/privacy-policy)

<comment><USER70> The key words here being " _when you enable online searching._ " The Amazon affiliate integration has been off by default since Ubuntu 16.04.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER71> it is worth of note that gnome 3 only now is getting to 90% of what it was during gnome 2. what was that? six years too? I have no idea. I am a KDE user now.

</comment><comment><USER72> I can't get why mate/kde is more usable/user friendly that Gnome. While Gnome have have Redhat & GNU behind them

</comment><comment><USER73> "sudo apt-get install xfce4" has worked awesomely so far.

</comment><comment><USER74> Yay!!! I have always hated Unity (No offence to the devs behind it) but it was always a PITA. I am glad that Gnome is back!

But that being said, Gnome3 has a lot of chrome space.

</comment><comment><USER75> I just want to say that the music in the video is _horrible_. I cannot believe they went with it. It sounds like a scammy kickstarter page!</comment>


Ask HN: Calling all "foodies" – how effective do you find Yelp? - <AUTHOR>

As an individual who typically eats out on weekends (only) - I've found in a number of cities - NYC, San Francisco, Philly, etc. restaurants having 100s, or 1000s of reviews with 4 or greater stars...leaving the restaurant scratching my head wondering "how the heck was that rated so well"?
I'm wondering how effective you find Yelp's reviews / rating system in your city <x> ?
What DO and DONT you like about it?
Thanks! <comment><USER2> Don't. Use the primary newspaper's food critic's list. For Los Angeles, I use: [http://ballots.latimes.com/lists/101-best-restaurants- jonath...](http://ballots.latimes.com/lists/101-best-restaurants-jonathan- gold/)

</comment><comment><USER3> I like yelp and use it a lot. I think it has replaced the menu. I'd like to see the actual pictures of the food when ordering.

but I did see some highly rated restaurants provide junk food and bad services. not sure if we can trust reviews.

</comment><comment><USER4> I've started using FourSquare more and more recently for reviews. I just don't trust Yelp anymore.</comment>


The Handwritten Report of Mindmaps on how to Start a StartUp - <AUTHOR> http://handwritten.posterous.com Hello YC Crowd.Mindmaps are a note taking method that envisions information visually and attempts to instead "draw" a story instead of force feeding readers with a pre-set and rigid sequence that is a block of text . This design form is a great learning aid and is used in some medical schools by students to assimilate course material and make it reference-able. Each page is meant to describe an individual concept but all merge into an individual story, flow and narrative, which is in this case today, a perspective that every new startuper must take up inorder to "win" at this business of building and making of a new digital world.
While this book is targeted for everyone who comes to this parts (i would call them digital pyramid-makers), those who "get it" will have some artistic sensibilities to fully appreciate the marriage of message and design that is this report.
Imagine an exam-cheating app that is an improvement from the scraps of paper that people carry into exam rooms which are noisy and can be repossessed as evidence by the administrative bureaucracy.
The idea being to cheat exams digitally with scanned "cheatsheets" made in advance on A4 paper and then scanned them into .JPEG files. The app should also "pool" this cheatsheets globally, the course work across universities to be relatively standardized and so what one individual uploads for a certain course code/name is useful to any student, anywhere in the world to cheat with. The idea is to help students compress course material into smaller, digitized and zoom-able scraps accessible via a mobile app. Users should be encouraged to upload their own "work" on different course material. This is the true value of the idea, a database of cheat-sheets, while mobile phones are the hardware to run the Cheating-as-a-service app.
/end monologue/ <comment><AUTHOR> Hello YC Crowd.

Mindmaps are a note taking method that envisions information visually and attempts to instead "draw" a story instead of force feeding readers with a pre-set and rigid sequence that is a block of text . This design form is a great learning aid and is used in some medical schools by students to assimilate course material and make it reference-able.

Each page is meant to describe an individual concept but all merge into an individual story, flow and narrative, which is in this case today, a perspective that every new startuper must take up inorder to "win" at this business of building and making of a new digital world.

While this book is targeted for everyone who comes to this parts (i would call them digital pyramid-makers), those who "get it" will have some artistic sensibilities to fully appreciate the marriage of message and design that is this report.

/end monologue/</comment>


World's Simplest Note App: Atomic Note - <AUTHOR>

www.atomicnote.co Hello everyone,<p>I build a beta version of my product. I want to build a note app which focus on simplicity. What you think about it? What feature should be build on it? <comment><USER2> After using your app for a few days, Here's what I found:

Pros: -The notes section loads immediately, before all other elements.

-Note updates are almost instant.

-Site feels responsive on mobile.

Cons: -Background image is large and takes a while to load on any device. Image is also busy looking.

-The ability to re-size the note pane is nice on my desktop by _horrible_ on my tablet. One mis-swype later and I lost the margins of my notebook. Perhaps consider using a device detection scheme and disabling this feature on mobile.

-Lack of a _settings_ page is annoying. I want to be able to change my password and email associated with my account. The inability to reset a password is also problematic.

-The UI is inconsistent. Once you have the back-end figured out, perhaps consider bringing in a designer (this is _minor_ IMO; keep up your focus on the responsive UI).

Keep up the good work. Can't wait to see your product mature.

</comment><comment><USER3> I tried to login without giving my Facebook / Google details and I got an error dump which includes your database url amongst other information.

Also why isn't there an option just to write without having to login (doesn't that add to the complexity of the app?)

<comment><AUTHOR> Hello,

I fix the error page.

I think about just writing notes but in the case of with out of user login the notes can't saving.

And if you want to just write, close and everything be deleted, some chrome web app can do this. So i don't think about that.

</comment></comment><comment><USER2> Seems pretty nice so far. The first thing(s) that come to mind are: 1) The ability to make multiple notes 2) The ability to tag notes 3) The ability to search said notes

Is the site optimized for a particular platform? Best of luck to you.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you for nice comments.

I think about much about multiple notes. I have to solve how can i make this is the "simplest". For now, i can't find a way to make it.

tag and search also so important and make it to after multiple notes.

For now it is responsive but i'll improve mobile ui. Now, there is some issue for mobile devices.

<comment><USER2> The reason I see the wonky errors is because DEBUG = True in your Django settings file

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you so much. I fix this.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Verify your DNS provider settings. When going to [http://atomicnote.co](http://atomicnote.co) you land at GoDaddy parking page.

<comment><AUTHOR> This is so important. I forgot it. Thank you..

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Thanks for everyone! AtomicNote reach first one hundred users! We got a lot of helpful feedback and exciting to building world's simplest note app!

</comment><comment><USER6> Your background image is so big. I am connecting to internet with my mobile phone and it seems unfriendly. You should optimize background image.

<comment><AUTHOR> This is also important. I want to make different theme for mobile user. Thank you for feed-back.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> funny thing is, i was working on a simple note taking app too. just for fun of course, but i guess this makes us competitors aha ;). i'll see if i can post something within a few days.</comment>


Big Problem: Which ISP do I choose? - <AUTHOR>

I've been using At&t Uverse, 1 of only 2 options available in the building where I live: the so hot San Francisco, SOMA neighborhood.  There are other ISPs in the area, but not for this building.
At&t Uverse has become increasingly unreliable, requiring multiple router resets almost everyday and their support are unable or unwilling to fix the problem and the bandwidth is 3x less than advertised.  My only other option is Comcast, but all the Yelp reviews say it sucks just as bad as At&t Uverse.  And comcast, will require a 12 month contract, which makes that rather risky.  Currently, data plans seem to be too expensive for streaming videos, and what if my computer decides to update itself.
Are there any other options I haven't considered?  Google balloons?  Maybe, I need to move to another location with better ISP options. <comment><USER2> Take a look at [http://www.broadbandmap.gov/](http://www.broadbandmap.gov/) and plug in your address to see what your options are.

I'd suggest Monkey Brains ISP: [https://www.monkeybrains.net/wireless.html](https://www.monkeybrains.net/wireless.html)

It's not on the national broadband list, but they claim SOMA is on their coverage map.

Or also try WebPass, based in SOMA: [http://webpass.net/residential](http://webpass.net/residential)</comment>


Why are we so quick to scrutinise how low-income families spend their money? - <AUTHOR> https://digest.bps.org.uk/2020/06/16/why-are-we-so-quick-to-scrutinise-how-low-income-families-spend-their-money/ <comment><USER2> >In the first couple of studies, participants read about Joe, who was described as having either a low- or high-paying job. They learned that Joe had won a $200 gift card which he spent on a flat screen TV. They then rated five statements which measured how "permissible" they thought his purchase was (e.g. "He made a responsible purchasing decision" and "He deserves to buy what he did"). Those who read that Joe had a low income rated his purchase as less permissible than those who read that he had a high income, or who were given no information about his income.

I have no right to make a value judgement on how Joe spends his money in this example. However that is what the study asked participants to do. claiming that people scrutinized low income families based on that part of the study is incorrect. They simply tended to look differently on a spending decision to buy a luxury item based on income. Something the study required them to do.

That said if a friend asked me for on advice on how to spend $200 my answer would depend on their financial position. If they had plenty to spend it doesn't really matter how they spend it. If they have very little I might recommend they spend it on a necessity rather than a luxury. That is not a judgement. It is simply the wiser choice. I suspect this could have been why people answered the way they did.

<comment><USER3> If you read the original study, participants were only asked about one version of Joe, not asked to compare. In another version of the study where an additional third framing, where Joe's income was not mentioned, rich Joe and neutral Joe were rated the same, and poor Joe more harshly.

They also did another version of the study where the thing being bought was a backup camera for a used car, and the study was 2x2: along with the income framing, there was also a framing of convenience vs safety (backup cameras are now required on all new cars since 2018 because they significantly increase safety, especially for pedestrians). Participants _still_ rated the permissibility of a _safety feature_ higher for a rich person than for a poor person, and rated the "convenient" camera for a rich person just as permissible as a safety camera for a poor person.

[https://email@example.com...](https://sci- firstname.lastname@example.com)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Interesting article. If a country has some kind is social net for low income folks, (most developed countries do, even the US) then the assumption is that the whole society is helping them, and some of your own money is going towards that help via taxes.

If a low income person is spending money on things that are not necessities it might feel like their are miss-using the help they get.

I think it is almost a tribal/low level human reaction to that. It might make you feel like you are being taken advantage of, and the feeling of unfairness might come out.

It that person is low income, but not receiving any support, then another feeling is just sheer jealousy or inadequacy, where this person is dressing better/and has better phone/car than you.

<comment><USER5> I've heard that this is one of the reasons that obesity is a much bigger problem in the US vs. Europe.

The way it read was that European countries have much more homogenized cultures where people are more openly shamed for having an unhealthy lifestyle; due to the fact that the healthcare costs are more visibly distributed to everyone.

<comment><USER6> Thereis probably some of this butthis would not be the first thing which comes to mind.

At least in France, children are faced with healthy food since primary shool. Sodas distributors are forbidden up to and including high school. They are also given the opportuinty to do sports (my children, 14 and 16, routinely go to play football with their friends in an open field - in the subrbs of Paris)

Then there is not much tolerence for fat people. Surprisingly, this equals fatness to having a disease.

The company restaurants are very affordable and usually healthy.

One of the things which also help a lot that it is traditional to drink water at meals. This is also what you get at school (and nothing else), and at the office (some would buy something else but this is unusual.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Fascinating research! I wonder where it was conducted and whether or not the result would vary between countries. I think in the United States there's a pervasive belief that the wealthy deserve their wealth because they earned it through hard work and/or personal merit. The counterpoint to this must be that poor people are undeserving because they don't work hard or because they lack merit.

<comment><USER8> Odd, I've seen a pervasive belief that the wealthy did not gain their wealth through hard work/merit and either somehow stole it or inherited it. And I've also seen pervasive beliefs that the poor are only poor because of things such as: lack of education, evil capitalism, lack of opportunities, hunger, systemic issues, racism, etc.

Perhaps each group has some level of both and we shouldn't generalize to entire strata and population groups too much. Instead maybe we shouldn't be so quick to measure outcomes and just fix the problems. Instead we're using outcomes as a (I would argue) poor measure of how well we're fixing the problems we should be agreeing are problems on their own worth fixing. That's where a lot of the argument/debate gets lost, quibbling over correlations instead of just solving bad things.

<comment><USER9> Not sure why you're being downvoted for sharing an opinion/observaton, but in my experience, opinions are changing slowly from the parent comment to your comment.

Obviously, all of the following is a generalization, but I think it's fairly accurate...

There is/was a pervasive belief in the US that the wealthy pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and that they provide more value to the world. 1980s Wall St boom, Yuppies, etc. Up until perhaps 30 years ago, this might have even been accurate. It's only recently that economic mobility in the US has started to noticeably lag behind similar western nations.

However, starting with Gen-X and perhaps accelerating with Millenials, public opinion has started to shift. Three decades of failed Neo-liberal government (and GOP and Democratic leadership both largely fall into that category) has left the average person disgruntled and seemingly unable to find any bootstraps at all.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> > And when deciding whether to gift a low-income individual either a $100 > grocery voucher or a $200 electronics voucher, only a quarter of > participants went for the latter, even though it was worth twice as much. > More than half said they would give a high-income individual the electronics > voucher, however. "Paradoxically, the result was that participants > effectively allocated more money to higher-income people than lower-income > people," the authors note.

This is a ridiculous contrived situation. $100 for a lower Maslow-level need or $200 for a higher level need? Why was giving $200 for the lower level need not an option? Maybe I'm missing the point here, but all this proves is that people are aware of Maslow's hierarchy.

When you create such strange scenarios, expect strange results. If a person struggling financially is servicing their higher level needs before their lower level needs are met, they deserve scrutiny.

<comment><USER11> It just says the person has a low paying job, it doesn't say they are struggling financially. People know that food is more important, but if you already have enough for food the $100 grocery gift card just becomes a $100 you can spend on "luxury" goods.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> I'm disappointed that the article doesn't take into account opportunity cost. One of the questions was "He made a responsible purchasing decision" when buying expensive or luxury goods. That's clearly going to have a different answer for low or high income people

<comment><USER13> Bingo!

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> In most countries with a welfare state, "low income" means using government money. Joe spending $200 on a TV means the state kicked in an extra $200 for rent/food that he didn't truly need.

</comment><comment><USER15> I think it's often appropriate. People need to understand-- financial skills are acquired skills, and they have everything to do with your own fiscal fitness.

It's not how much money you earn-- it's the delta between what you have coming in and what you spend. There are countless stories of low-to-middle income savers who grow to be wealthy through the power of safe, slow investing and compound interest. There are likewise countless stories of high-income individuals who spend all they make and more, ending up broke.

The world needs more clarity. More education. These are bedrock, basic skills, but they are woefully underpresented.

</comment><comment><USER16> Related, social dominance orientation:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_dominance_orientation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_dominance_orientation)

</comment><comment><USER17> I judge low income families in my circles for two reasons:

\- they complain

\- they tend to be jealous of others and judge them. Even sometimes of people who don't even spend as much as themselves

Honestly, most low income families I know of make poor money choices (cigarettes and alcohol being the poorest). I actually believe a big part of poor people are poor because they make bad choices, even though it's a somewhat unpopular opinion.

</comment><comment><USER18> Surely the just-world fallacy is at play at here. We tend to attribute fault to those unfortunate in order to preserve a belief that the world is just; we get what we deserve. Of course that's ridiculous, but we think it anyway.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just- world_hypothesis](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis)

</comment><comment><USER19> I have been on a low income, had a wife and child when my wife was unable to work and we saved as much money as possible. We had a cheap phone and internet package, made do with a second hand a TV set and microwave. When we had enough money to get a car, we bought a low end car seat and I got my first iPod when I won it in a competition.

Now we have a lot more money, so we can afford better goods. When we were less well of, a better internet package, child car seat, electronic goods were less necessary COMPARED TO OTHER FINANCIAL PRIORITIES. We had other things to use that money for, like saving up for a deposit on our first house. if you're not saying necessary compared to what, you're not evaluating necessity.

</comment><comment><USER20> Uh, because there is endless discuss by do gooders on how to help the poor and endless comments by the poor that they're poor and can't make ends meet.

</comment><comment><USER21> Keep the poor focussed on each other and they won't see the excesses of the rich.

It's why the Tories are so focussed on people who claim benefits: if the public are angry about "scroungers" grabbing the crumbs then they won't be paying attention to the hands which are taking all of the cookies out of the jar.

<comment><USER22> Working class people have been ingrained with a crabs-in-a-bucket mentality. Meanwhile, we've allowed 1% of Americans to sit on over 50% of the wealth, and people still ask "but how do we pay for it?" when it comes to actually improving the material conditions of the working class.

<comment><USER23> It seems like you're using one metric to shit on the 1% (net worth) while you're using a different metric to discuss impact on the middle class (material conditions)

It's important to be consistent here. The 1% may have a lot of the wealth financially, but they don't have anywhere near 50% of the things that matter to Americans. Homes, cars, food, healthcare, etc. is much much more evenly distributed.

'Material conditions' and wealth aren't directly correlated.

<comment><USER24> The point is that would be more and better houses and other things that would benefit more people if some of that net worth were redirected toward building them.

<comment><USER25> In a sense it already is. The ultra-wealthy own and run the businesses which supply everyone else with all those things, and their wealth is largely just the nominal paper value of a whole bunch of successful attempts to supply society with things. What doesn't and cannot happen is redirecting their wealth in the sense that a lot of the American left imagine, where we can just take their billions and turn them into billions of dollars of healthcare or housing or anything else that would benefit the less wealthy.

The reason this isn't possible is that their wealth doesn't represent actual resources they're claiming. When we say that someone like Jeff Bezos is worth $150 billion dollars, that doesn't mean they're personally using $150 billion dollars worth of land, materials, equipment, people's time, etc that can be redirected into houses or healthcare, whereas someone who buys a $200 TV is making use of something like that amount of actual resources that cannot be used for anything else. Houses and healthcare need land, materials, and lots of workers' time, which then cannot be used for other things, and it fundamentally has to be the people who'd have those other things who ultimately pay for this.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> > Now a new study in PNAS provides some clues as to the origins of this bias. > Across a series of 11 studies involving more than 4,000 participants, Serena > Hagerty and Kate Barasz from Harvard Business School find that we tend to > believe lower-income people need less than those on higher incomes,

This phrasing of "need" does not seem accurate here, it's more about priorities

If you don't have enough to buy food, pay the rent or emergency savings then securing these are the top priorities, doesn't matter if you are rich or poor

</comment><comment><USER27> Nobody would mind how they spent it if it was actually theirs to start with. When you give out free money it becomes everybody's business.

<comment><USER28> SpaceX gets lots of money from governments as incentives to expand their production facilities so should all their spending be subject to such scrutiny as well?

<comment><USER29> If SpaceX gets a contract to provide X in exchange for $Y from the government, and delivers on their contract, the government has no further business scrutinizing SpaceX's spending.

If the government gives SpaceX money with no strings attached, just a vague "expand production facilities", then the government would be right to be upset if SpaceX spent it on keggers.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> If poor people can't be trusted to make rational market decisions, what does that imply about capitalism as a system?

<comment><USER31> ...that it's a utopian ideology, a false idea which can ultimately never be fulfilled, but which develops a "false consciousness in people about the world, how it works, and their place in it".

> As an example, in Medieval Europe, religion was used as an ideology to > support the structure of society. Serfs were told that the people in charge > were put there by God and that the way the world worked was the only > divinely ordained way it could work. No wonder people who were essentially > slaves didn't rise up; they were told God wanted them at the bottom.

> According to Marx, other ideologies like capitalism or liberalism work the > same way. They are created, work to help sustain a particular social > structure, and ultimately fall out of favor when a new idea comes to force. > When this happens, the whole structure of society can change in a hurry as a > new ideology fills the void.

Source: [https://bigthink.com/culture-religion/slavoj-zizek- ideology](https://bigthink.com/culture-religion/slavoj-zizek-ideology)

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> A couple reasons come to mind:

1\. Whoever pays the bill calls the tune. Meaning if someone wants charity, the giver is going to want to know that the recipient is going to spend it wisely, otherwise would be disinclined to give.

2\. People in financial difficulty often consult with a planner to see how they can adjust their spending habits so they are more effective.

<comment><USER32> Several scenarios described in the article made no mention of someone else paying the bill or providing funding to the person but the results showed the same scrutiny of their purchasing decisions.

And I would have thought this goes without saying but a person generally cannot financial-plan their way out of poverty. Poverty isn't from lacking financial discipline it's from lacking financial resources and opportunities. It's impossible to fund a savings account when your income is just barely enough to keep a roof over your head and food on the table.

<comment><USER29> > Several scenarios described in the article made no mention of someone else > paying the bill or providing funding to the person

"These last findings have worrying implications when it comes to thinking about charitable donations or how resources are distributed to the less fortunate, write the authors."

> Poverty isn't from lacking financial discipline it's from lacking financial > resources and opportunities.

My father (Air Force) once told me that the AF had difficulties with the privates living on the base, in that half of them couldn't pay their bills. He was ordered to investigate and fix it. He said the problems were due to how they spent money - they'd spend their paycheck as soon as they got it on steak and booze, then would have to beg, borrow, etc., towards the end if the pay period.

The guy who taught the accounting class I took used to be a used car salesman. He said poorer people invariably took the worst (most expensive) financing option. He'd explain to them over and over why it was bad, and they'd just accuse him of trying to cheat them.

Frontline (I think it was Frontline) ran an episode a few years ago about a company that offered a 401K plan to all its employees, from the janitor to the CEO. They found that the investment percentage returns for the employees varied by their salary - the higher income people got better results from the company plan. This is despite everyone got the same plan, some were better at investment choices.

A colleague of mine at work years ago complained bitterly that the company had him over a barrel, salary-wise, because he could not afford to change jobs because of his bills. He was wearing expensive clothes, had a new car, a new house, etc. His chains were of his own making.

And lastly, the primary buyers of lottery tickets are poor people. Lottery tickets are probably the worst investment out there. (They'd do much better buying fractional shares from a discount broker.)

It's a tragedy that the public school system teaches nothing about accounting, budgeting, how to run a simple business, etc.

<comment><USER32> There are many opportunities to volunteer helping low-income people with budgeting and finances. I would encourage you to sign up as a volunteer for one of those programs. I've done work with the IRS VITA program to counsel low-income families on tax planning and budgeting how to "best" spend their EITC. You might need a legal and/or tax background to volunteer solo with VITA but there are lots of opportunities to sit in on client intake and budget planning/coaching. You'll see first hand that poor people aren't stupid when it comes to how they spend their money and they aren't making irrational financial choices.

It's comforting for those of us who are financially secure to think that we'd be able to use our superior knowledge and business acumen to get out of poverty but I can assure you that comforting thought isn't based in reality.

And in the exceedingly unlikely event that you are as skilled financially as you believe yourself to be then you should be sharing your knowledge far and wide with those in need.

<comment><USER29> > You'll see first hand that poor people aren't stupid when it comes to how > they spend their money and they aren't making irrational financial choices.

My father would work with the insolvent privates making a budget for them to get them on a sound basis. They rejected his help 100%.

My accounting teacher would explain how compound interest worked to the car buyers, and they accused him of trying to cheat them.

The Frontline episode shows they were making poor investment decisions.

And lastly, buying lottery tickets doesn't auger financial judgement.

> in the exceedingly unlikely event that you are as skilled financially as you > believe yourself to be

At least I've never bought a lottery ticket, only lost pocket change in Vegas, and only buy cars I can pay cash for, so there's that :-)

> you should be sharing your knowledge far and wide with those in need

There are plenty of excellent books on the topic, nothing I can add to that. "The Millionaire Next Door" is a good one if you're interested.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Lonely programmer detective uncovers the Mozilla JavaScript coercion conspiracy - <AUTHOR> http://stackoverflow.com/a/38677222/984780 <comment><USER3> Something about how JavaScript coerces numbers to objects and back again, filled with clickbaitesque sensationalist sentences. I stopped reading.

<comment><USER4> Minus the writing style, explanation of a 'wat' in JS which turns out to be the equivalent of boxing in Java/C# (behavior which looks odd and comes from cases where the operations involved convert a primitive type to an instance of its wrapper object type and back again).

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> > Mozilla tried to bury by putting it where they knew nobody would look - <USER2> > documentation.

If they really wanted to hide it, should have tried the EULA.

<comment><USER6> The joke seems to be that the docs are exactly where you would expect to find this info.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> I actually had no idea there was a difference between number values and number objects. Definitely one of the more confusing areas of Javascript.

<comment><USER8> Similarly, there is a String object for string values as well... Sometimes the behavior can seem weird, but for the most part, it works.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> shitty design != conspiracy

<comment><USER10> The author of that answer does not actually think there is a conspiracy. He has written a detailed explanation of what is happening in the form of a lighthearted parody of a hard boiled detective thriller [1]. It's witty.

Someone who got it was Seth, who left the comment referencing the famous line from the noir thriller 'Chinatown' [2].

[1] [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HardboiledDetecti...](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HardboiledDetective)

[2] [https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-meaning-of-the-line- Forget...](https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-meaning-of-the-line-Forget-it- Jake-Its-Chinatown)</comment></comment>


I wanted good laptop stickers, so I made some - <AUTHOR> https://gumroad.com/l/JGiJ <comment><USER2> US shipping only.</comment>


Matters – single observation-publishing scientific journal - <AUTHOR> https://sciencematters.io/ <comment><USER2> The vision of a web of triple-blind, peer reviewed scientific observations, published independently of the "story" behind the research is audacious. But it's not clear what incentive researchers would have to publish this way -- especially the tantalizing, breakthrough observations. And it's also not entirely clear that observations have an independent existence outside of the scientific stories that give them context.

</comment><comment><USER3> If this takes off, I can see this being a way for frontier-edge research being scooped. I'm not sure I see the new value-add beyond that.

What does this offer over arXiv?

<comment><USER4> I guess peer review, which arxiv doesn't have, and their LEGO model - you (and others!) can go back and add new data to your first data point, thereby slowly arriving at the "story" by linking several data points from you and others. You can only replace arxiv papers with newer versions, and then only by you.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I did not see where this will be indexed and archived. Without it, it won't take off. I have many old data sets that did not really fit into a nice story and have been sleeping on my harddrive. I would love to have an easy way to dump those figures out on the internet.

<comment><USER6> Check out osf.io, it's run by a non-profit called the Center for Open Science, and is dedicated to hosting scientific data and papers. You can even link your github / Dropbox, and choose at any point to register your project, which will copy all the files with the hope of freezing it in time.</comment></comment>


Show HN: Coherence API – Modern Serverless Code. Pass a func and it runs online - <AUTHOR> https://www.coherenceapi.com <comment><USER2> The entirety of the docs talk about how easy it is to set up a job, run job, have a recurring job and then pricing is in compute Gb hours. I've literally no idea how those two things relate to each other in real world use. Its a bit of a cognitive disconnect that I'm sure makes a lot of sense having built it but not to me as a possibly interested developer.

Some examples of how many job iterations would use 1 Gb hour would help, or maybe I'm missing them?

<comment><AUTHOR> This is great feedback, and initially I had a calculator for this. We removed it because we felt it would be intuitive but you're right we built it and it's easy to lose that outside perspective.

It's really just the running time of your program (you control this) plus a less than a second of setup / tear down time. If your job is set to consume 1GB that's it, you've consumed that many GB-seconds. If it's a 128MB job, then you've only consumed 1/8th of that many GB-seconds.

Let me know if this example is getting it across, it's a simplified version of the pricing of other serverless platforms.

<comment><USER3> Any plans to have pre-paid credits?

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey, we could do this but I'm curious why you would prefer this? More solid payment expectations?

<comment> xkcd-sucks For me to evaluate something, the amount I'll be billed _must_ have an upper bound that I control. So yes, more solid payment expectations.

<comment><USER4> Same ^

I really need to guarantee controlling unbounded costs. I would think most people have similar expectations.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Hey HN, I've been eager to share this with you. I've finally released and I think this is going to be very useful for a lot of devs who are like me.

Coherence API is a twist on serverless that lets you deploy and run code the same way you call a local function. It integrates with the programming language so you can just pass a func and it's getting run. No need to change your workflow or toolset.

I'll be here to answer any questions.

<comment><USER5> If I build 92 of these things and they communicate with each other over sockets, files, streams, or messages, how does Coherence (a) help me visualize and debug that network, (b) transition the processing graph to a new state safely (blue/green deployments to one or more collaborating components)?

The problem that I have with these Serverless stacks is that they all demo pretty well for the trivial case of "it sends emails / transcodes video / puts files in S3" but then jump to "run your entire business on this" without clearly showing how its possible to do that with a complex system.

Is your solution different?

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey, help me understand how you envision Coherence could help you debug that network.

I'm moving over some of my own services to Coherence so it's very much intended to "run your whole business".

<comment><USER5> There is so much more to running a cloud system than running a function - monitoring the function (billing, errors, throughput, latency), scaling the function, moving data between two functions, storing data, signaling a function, upgrading a function, downgrading a function, upgrading the stored data, authorizing the function to run, upgrading and downgrading stored data and functions while taking customer traffic with zero downtime without data loss.

"Backend-as-a-service" businesses need to check all of those boxes.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm going to decompress part of your comment here:

\- scaling the function

This is where we've invested most of our effort. We're envisioning a load test demo soon.

\- monitoring the function (billing, errors, throughput, latency)

This is something which we will need to invest more in. Great feedback here. We don't have much in the way of monitoring yet, but everything is there and we just need to expose it to the users.

\- moving data between two functions, storing data

Traditional solutions like Redis and Postgres seem like a good solution here. You can't host them on Coherence yet, but it's something that we're working on.

\- signaling a function, upgrading a function, downgrading a function

Versioning is particularly interesting here. A lot of time we've thought of these functions as ephemeral.

Send me an email (bryan at coherenceapi . com) I'm really interested to talk more about the use cases you're envisioning.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I've made this comment before (and was subject to public ridicule and mass downvoting for it) - I'm reluctant to try new products and services if it requires me to enter CC details. This is not a rant, I know you have a business to run and it'd better sustain itself. I really want to try this service, yet I won't.

And, btw, I don't even own a CC.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm aware this is going to turn a significant number of people away.

The fact is in the early stage, this will help restrict fraud and bring in more engaged customers to ensure their expectations are met.

It's not something we plan to require forever.

<comment><USER6> Sure, the reasoning is clear, we're in a "fraud first" world. Still yet, if there was some sandboxed setup I could use, I'd happily do that. And if it works, I'd happily hand in (my employer's...) billing info thereafter.

<comment><AUTHOR> Can you describe what are the limitations you might be willing to live with on a frictionless sign up?

For example, if you only had 2 compute hours, would it be enough for your evaluation?

<comment><USER6> Absolutely! 1 hour would suffice, and any computing/IO resources could be limited to a near zero.

<comment><AUTHOR> This is common feedback I'm getting for those interested in hobbyist tier.

I'm thinking we'll put something in place for free frictionless small evaluation after we think about fraud management a little bit.

Thanks for the feedback here everyone this is really invaluable!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Congrats on shipping!

I see that you worked on .Net at Microsoft, + supported languages at present are Python 2,3 and .Net Core.

So.... How different is this from Azure Functions? [https://azure.microsoft.com/en- us/services/functions/](https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/services/functions/)

Cos I can create a Serverless API using Azure functions also, right? [https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/azure- functions/funct...](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/azure- functions/functions-create-serverless-api)

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey Thanks!

This is the most common question! Other FaaS solutions require your code or your workflow to be structured in some way to fit in with their system, not to mention requiring you to use their tools.

Coherence integrates with the programming language to make it a lot simpler on the developer. Just pass a func and it's getting run. Structure your code however you like and use your favorite tools!

EDIT: One example, it's going to be a lot easier to run your web crawlers on Coherence.

EDIT 2: Yes I worked on .NET Core and am a python enthusiast for over 9 years. This is why they are the first supported languages.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Congrats on the launch!

I'm curious what your cold-start times are like (knowing that build sizes and languages affect that too). Also, any plans to support Go?

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks!

Our cold-start times have a way to go, they're around 1 minute on the first invocation of some set of binaries and less than 20 seconds on subsequent invocations.

We've done a lot more work on optimizing the subsequent invocations time, including even running a forked version of docker (it reduces docker save time by 100x or more)

This is a primary scenario for us though and there's a lot of room for further optimization. We'll be posting figures and progress regularly post-launch.

EDIT:

I missed some of your questions, we need to upload your project's binaries only (not package manager binaries). So languages with larger binary sizes will have longer cold start times. Overall this comes down to the factoring of the project though.

We should be able to support Go since the binary is static linked, but it has less portability than other managed languages so we've targetted those first as lower hanging fruit.

<comment><USER8> Awesome, thanks for the detailed reply!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Once there was picloud doing the exact thing just for python. I'd always dreamed of a .net port. Well done!</comment>


I have to move back to PR, what should I bring? - <AUTHOR> https://www.reddit.com/r/PuertoRico/comments/77zu64/i_have_to_move_back_to_pr_what_should_i_bring/ <comment><USER2> This is pretty heartbreaking:

 _> > This gave me a thought, a bit off topic - your situation makes me more optimistic in the short term / next couple of months. If the school is insisting you come back, then they have achieved a "good enough" level of operations._

 _> Not really. The building has no light and classes are being taught in hallways. The ceiling is missing and there is water still in the classrooms. There is no a/c, so the rooms are suffocating in the heat. It is difficult for many to come to school or get access to internet to do homework. Many have complained about starting school in these conditions, but the school doesn't care. They are opening because they do not get any funding if the school is closed._

</comment><comment><USER3> Definitely a multitool like a leatherman. I wish there was a check-in just for multitools on a plane since thats the only thing I can't bring with a carry- on. Obtaining a quality multitool in some countries can be hard/expensive.

<comment><USER4> This is maybe the thing I hate most about flying.

I carry my Leatherman everywhere, and it's helped me more times than I can count. Maybe it's just me, but I feel better knowing that I have a pretty complete toolkit on me at all times.

And no, it's not a security risk. In the post-9/11 world, passengers know that cooperating with hijackers is a potential death sentence and will fight for their lives. Cockpit doors are kept locked.

A group of people armed with pocketknives isn't going to be able to do much.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> The title confused me for a second because there's no indication this is /r/PuertoRuco. I initially read the title as someone going back into public relations.

<comment><USER6> This is why abbreviations should be avoided as much as possible, unless the writer can be almost certain that every reader will know the abbreviation.

<comment><USER7> Well, it was posted to /r/PuertoRico, so the abbreviation is pretty unambiguous _within that context_. It should have been expanded when posting this to HN, though.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> This has all the signs of a failed state. A government (US) that won't and can't provide the basic recovery assistance after a major natural disaster.

</comment><comment><USER9> In Puerto Rico's case, would a centralized or decentralized power grid have worked better? When the power went out for my street a couple weeks back, I thought that decentralized grids would result in more redundancy and be less vulnerable to outages.

<comment><USER10> According to [https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2017/10/23/16501164/puerto-...](https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2017/10/23/16501164/puerto- rico-hurricane-maria-power-water-sewage-trump) the main problem right now is that the power lines run through inaccessible places. No one wants to live next to a power station, and investing in better access roads would be really expensive.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Portable Pedal Power Generator: [https://www.amazon.com/Generator-Emergency- Portable-Lightwei...](https://www.amazon.com/Generator-Emergency-Portable- Lightweight-Polycarbonate/dp/B00EZS8VQS)

<comment><USER11> We used something like these at a festival in Denmark to allow people to charge their phones.

That one you found look very sturdy from the picture, but the ones we got would easily break. The most fragile part of it was the gears, they would break, and then we would have to replace it.

So please find a model that have easy obtainable spare-parts.

<comment><USER6> I did use this model exactly for 5 days power was out in Atlanta due to the hurricane prior to the one that hit PR. It didn't fall apart in those 5 days of using for 2-4 hours each day.</comment></comment></comment>


Grimy, Glorious, Gone. The Divergent Paths of 7 Train Stations - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/29/us/train-stations-photos-middle-america.html <comment><USER2> I really hope something good happens with "The Tank" Union Depot in Joplin, MO.

<comment><USER2> fwiw, I'm retweeting a bunch of stuff referencing the Joplin Union Depot with #saveJoplinUnionDepot

¯\\_(ツ)_/¯</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Mailinglist provider for your MVP/Startup - <AUTHOR>

What do you guys use to collect user/customer interest for your MVP?<p>Some sites I saw use Mailchimp.com, other ones just collecting the addresses in google docs. <comment><USER2> It really depends on whether you are collecting emails or whether you are collecting emails that you are then going to use as a list of people to inform.

For collecting emails, you can setup a wufoo form in about 30 seconds and post a link to the form from your website.

If you are collecting emails that you then want to be magically setup into a list you can turn around to email out, it can be done with Mailchimp in less than 5 minutes.

If you are following this advice: (<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1697302>) then either one will work for you very quickly.

</comment><comment><USER3> <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1099646> [read beyond the top part of page]

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=277834>

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=203242></comment>


We're not based in the valley. - <AUTHOR> http://seeinginteractive.com/newspaper-support-group/omg-were-not-based-in-the-valley/ <comment><USER2> There's a difference between being defensive about where you are not located, and actively promoting your favored location. I was born, raised and still live in the Silicon Valley, but even a remote simpleton like me knows how cool tech can be in Austin TX...

<http://geekaustin.org/>

<http://sdf.lonestar.org/>

As for startup stuff going on in Austin, from _JUST_ today's reading I noticed the following being in Austin:

<http://blog.asmartbear.com>

<http://wpengine.com/>

<http://www.capitalthought.com/>

I'll still prefer my home over yours, but your home is also pretty sweet (and worth bragging about).

<comment><USER3> As far as I'm concerned, you all have it easy. Try running a startup from a remote town in Greece!

<comment><USER4> Try Alaska. I keep getting phone calls at 4 AM several times a month.

<comment><USER5> That's nothing! When I were a lad, we ran our startup from Arrowtown in the heart of New Zealand's Southern Alps - and we still do!

www.schoolconferences.com

<comment><USER6> ok, you won, Wellington is clearly less remote than Arrowtown. iWantMyName is based in NZ and we love it. I see the valley not as a requirement to be a successful startup "in the US".

<comment><USER2> Monty Python - Four Yorkshiremen <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FatHLHG2uGY>

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> "The weather is awesome! We've got a humid subtropical climate."

These two sentences seem contradictory to me.

<comment><USER8> In North America it probably doesn't mean what you think:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humid_subtropical_climate>

<comment><USER9> No, it means exactly what you think. Summer in Texas is miserable.

 _Highs exceed 90 °F (32.2 °C) on 109 days per year, and 100 °F (37.8 °C) on 12._

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin,_Texas>

<comment><AUTHOR> It depends on what you like. I spent my entire life until I was 27 in the frigidity of Northern Minnesota. After that, I rather enjoy the fact that nearly every day in Austin is a t-shirt day.

<comment><USER9> True, but I suspect the average person wouldn't describe a humid day at 95 °F as "awesome weather".

<comment><USER10> Austin isn't Houston, it's not that humid.

<comment><USER9> It is in the morning:

<http://www.cityrating.com/cityhumidity.asp?City=Austin>

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> No one ever claims it's impossible to be successful outside of The Valley. All anyone ever says, at most, is that all things considered it's an advantage.

It's a completely false controversy, and always has been.

<comment><USER12> I think the true controversy actually lies in how many of those advantages are even still advantages, or how much longer they will be.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> The NYC technorati feel that with enough investments it will one day usurp the Valley as the technology hub of the world.

I'm pretty certain that will NOT happen and it will be more widespread. In fact, places like Austin with it's climate, the young people it attracts, atmosphere and relatively reasonable prices have a greater chance of becoming a global tech hub than NYC does. NYC has way too many other things going on to be heavily focused on tech.

</comment><comment><USER14> I moved from Austin to the Valley three years ago.

When I came here, I missed Austin a lot. Now, although I know I'll move back there some day, I'm going to miss the Tech Culture of the valley.

Austin's missing populated hackerspaces like the Hacker Dojo and Noisebridge, and generally lacks technology meetups and hacker parties. The tech-based people are there, but there's not much of a cohesive culture yet. (This is a solvable problem!)

Of course, Silicon Valley is missing out on the Alamo Drafthouse... which is one of the best reasons to live in Austin.

</comment><comment><USER15> Do you have office space in Austin, or are you really in Pflugerville? Your contact page only mentions College Station and Pflugerville.

Anyway, this was news to me - are there any other YC companies here in Austin? I thought I (and I'm just an employee of one) was alone. We should have beers. :)

<comment><USER16> Me too. I'm the founder of a company in Austin that interviewed for YC this winter, but got rejected.

If anyone reading this wants to meet up in Austin, my email's in my profile.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Why Austin (and not New York or Boston)? What was it like doing YC and then not staying in SV? Was there any disagreement among the founders or investors about moving away from the valley?

<comment><USER18> Not really. The investors like it because we save a bunch of money. And the founders are both from the Midwest so we like it. Actually, we're a Texas- based company (maybe the only YC company that's not a DE corporation) and have always planned to have this be our base of operations.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Also, no state income tax!

Is living in california worth over 10k a year? (assuming you have a reasonable salary)

<comment><USER20> You pay no income tax in Texas? Really?!

<comment><USER18> Yes really. No state income tax.

<comment><USER21> How are the other taxes? I know that some Oregonians I know often talk about how no-sales-tax Oregon has very high property tax to compensate.

<comment><USER15> 8.25% sales tax in Texas (8.25% in CA, 8.875% in NYC).

<comment><USER22> CA's sales tax is county/city dependent, starting from a 8.25% base. It's 9.25% in San Jose, 9.5% somewhere nearby, closer to 9.75% in SF, and less than 9% some places.

see <http://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/pam71.htm> .

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> The model of SV has proven to be one to emulate. It's only a matter of time before other locals with that crucial mix of money and good schools get some version of it.

</comment><comment><USER24> This is the second link from seeinginteractive.com in as many days that didn't say much of anything other than 'work for us'. I wonder how much fake controversy they are going to keep throwing at HN in order to recruit.

<comment><USER8> This was written as a clarification since so many people who applied assumed we were in the Bay Area or Silicon Valley.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Congratulations. I've been looking at moving to Austin, recently. I'm from Dallas, so I'm familiar with the area and it's a great one.

<comment><USER26> I moved down to Austin (for school @ UT) from Arlington about 5 years ago and haven't left since :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> Glad to see you guys coming back to Texas. We definitely need a larger startup community out here.

</comment><comment><USER28> Austin startup here as well. I actually moved from San Francisco to Austin to launch <http://www.ideaffect.com>.

Also, hey Jason! Still owe you a beer sometime.

<comment><USER27> That's awesome, I was going to go with UserVoice for my feedback widget, but I'm gonna have to support a fellow Texas startup and go with you guys now. I'm based in Dallas myself.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: How to learn tech as a company executive? - <AUTHOR> A friend of mine is taking an executive leadership role at a tech company. The role is head of informatics, and he was chosen because of expertise in the field, but doesn't have a background in technology. What resources would you recommend to help him catch up on the basics - technical infrastructure of large organizations, managing tech teams, etc.? <comment><USER2> I was confused by your question so I checked the Wikipedia entry for "informatics"

I don't understand, how can you be an expert in "informatics" and not have a solid grasp of technology? Something doesn't add up. Any chance you could elaborate??

<comment><USER3> It's easy math. (no expertise in tech + getting job in tech)/asking for a friend = this post is confusing.

<comment><AUTHOR> The position is a healthcare / tech crossover-episode :) He's an expert in healthcare, but not in tech. Sorry to confuse you!

<comment><USER3> There are continuing education courses designed for full time working professionals that could be relevant. NYU has a bunch. I am sure other institutions that are physically closer to your friends location offer a combination of online and in person courses. Some are certificates, some not.

I would also recommend books on devops and various methodologies (agile, etc that are in vogue now), your friend should also get a list of all the software the team might be using to manage their work (bug tracking, issues, roadmap planning, etc) and get trained on them by those software companies or their certified partners.</comment></comment></comment></comment>