The Complete Beginner's Guide to Barefoot Running - <AUTHOR> http://zenhabits.net/barefoot-running/ <comment><USER2> I've got a pair of the Vibram KSOs, and am loving them.

Dunno where the $125 cost is coming from, given they mention only the KSOs. The site sells KSOs for $85, and that's what I got mine for. Because I've had such ridiculously good experiences there, I got mine from Run Away Shoes [1] near my house (your experience may vary), where you can try them on to check size / fit / whatnot. Highly recommended you do that first.

($125 is for the kangaroo-leather super-deluxe model, which I'd imagine would be WAY too warm for any time but the winter. Your toes don't get cold/pain/numb like in shoes, there's more blood-flow due to their being _used_. Just cold. At least, in my 30-degree-morning-walks-to-school (1 mile), and if I jogged they positively warmed up.)

First time I went running in them, I hadn't run more than a mile, intermittently, in over a year; I got lost, and ran 3.5 miles. Felt great. Land on the balls of your feet to take the landing-shock, keep your weight forward, slow down slightly, and take smaller strides; it'll feel right when you do it right. And _be nice to your feet_ , they take a long time to heal. Looking at some barefoot running videos and deconstructing the strides helps a lot.

Speaking of healing, my forever-weak-and-puffy arches have been better from about the second week. My calves had no problem, but I jump around a lot; the balls of my feet got sore after ~hour or so walking around on concrete / tile, however. That cleared up after a couple weeks, and now I'm good all day.

As to washing them, my feet apparently sweat a lot. Hopefully that'll change in time, but in the meantime I wear them daily / everywhere: they don't air- dry in a day. If you force air into them (we've got an air purifier, and just lay them on top), they'll dry in an hour or two, but non-moving air won't dry them quickly. * shrug __* maybe if you hung them outside?

[1] : <http://www.runawayshoes.net/>

edit: oh yeah, another surprising bonus: your balance improves _tremendously_ , especially as your toes strengthen. At least, mine has.

<comment><USER3> Another KSOs owner here, and I love them.

I only have them about a bit under 100 kilometers, so I still don't know for sure if they're that great against injuries, but at least the feeling of running with them has been great until now.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Great overview and guide! I always hated running and went through lots of the latest shoes. I picked up a pair of Vibram 5fingers after a barefoot-style running clinic. Now trail running is actually enjoyable and I wear them while working out and at work on occasion.

Wearing these things makes walking around on this planet a much more engaging experience. It's not just about ridding yourself of all that cruft that is your shoes, it's about reconnecting with your body in a more natural way.

</comment><comment><USER5> > It's actually a good idea to start with barefoot shoes, as they make a great > transition into barefoot running.

I would suggest the opposite, that the vibrams become more useful after you have more accurately dialed in your running form. In doing otherwise, you risk injury through "too much to soon."

</comment><comment><USER6> Would you (or did you) use them for hiking as well (on very light slopes and soft grounds, obviously)? My running shoes are old, so I am considering going barefoot. Using them for hiking too would be nice, but I can't imagine if there's any downside.

<comment><USER5> I've hiked in mine, and they would probably be reasonable for light climbing as well.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> I'm not sure I buy all the hype about this latest craze, but I will say I've been doing it since last winter and I'm able to run again. It forces you to not extend, keeping the feet under the hips.

The Vibram 5 toes things are good down to about 15 degrees as long as they stay dry, but barefoot on a soccer field is awesome.

I ran for years, everything from 5K to marathoning and eventually stopped because of a knee that wouldn't heal. I'm doing an hour plus a day now, albeit at a slower pace, and the barefoot thing is actually healing the knee.

I also love the Tarahumara diet, essentially corn chips and beer, which is the real reason we run, that and to chase girls (or boys or whatever :)

</comment><comment><USER8> Running barefoot is cool, but at least to me these five finger high tech socks kind of miss the point. Part of the reason for barefoot running is the "back to the basics" feeling, I wouldn't want to get into another arms race for better equipment.

In my experience it is best to run on on grass first (football or soccer fields) to get used, if it's dewy it feels extra nice, running form surely improves with barefoot running.

<comment><USER9> Exactly. Buying special shoes to run barefoot is completely unnecessary. The best analogy I can think of is the guitar: at first your fingers won't be tough enough and they'll hurt, but keep at it and you'll develop tougher skin for a pain free experience.

Barefoot running is the same way. Sure, it's going to be uncomfortable at first, and you'll probably end up with some minor scrapes. Big deal. You've basically been wearing gloves on your feet your entire life.

I can just imagine some Kenyan reading this and laughing at the excesses of our lifestyles.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Another technique for keeping VFFs stink-free (other than washing them) is wearing Injinji toe socks. The socks are expensive, but if you rotate them they stay stink-free for weeks at a time, so you only need a few pairs. Plus, they are easy to wash (even in a sink) and quick to dry. Some people (e.g., Tim Ferriss) find them uncomfortable, but I've never had any problems.

</comment><comment><USER11> Does anyone have any suggestions for some shoes like the various Vibram models but which do not have entirely separated toes? Perhaps which only have a separation between the large and small toes?

My second and third toes are fused together by some skin. I'd rather not have an operation to separate them as they are fun and unique, but they prevent me from wearing "five-finger" shoes.

<comment><USER12> I have a pair of Vibram Five Fingers and while my toes are rather normal it can be difficult when running off-trail. Grass keeps getting stuck between the toes and if you get tired and slow and then happen to glance a rock with the pinkie it can easily get too much grip and you can get a really nasty hit as the toe is wrung out-wise.

To get away from toe injuries I've looked at Terra Plana's Evo shoes (<http://www.terraplana.com/evo-p-1263.html?colour=271>).

They look like something that might be the thing. But I have not so far actually tested them.

If you're going to run more trail-running or the like then perhaps a pair of huaraches might be something for you (<http://barefootted.com/shop/>).

For me they have been a mixed blessing. I tend to sweat a lot from the feet and thus the airiness of the sandals are really good for me. But it's been hard to learn how to properly string them on longer runs and small mistakes makes it easy for my feet to get blisters.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> For anyone in Michigan, check out the good form running clinics that Playmakers has. I went to free one when I first started running and it did wonders for me. If you're not sure about barefoot, you can try these techniques to improve your current form.

<http://www.goodformrunning.com/index.php>

</comment><comment><USER14> What are your thoughts on this, HN barefooters:

1) With my VFF shoes, the skin of my feet gets rubbed raw in a few places when I walk more than about 5 miles (8km).

2) I noticed two areas (you could call them bumps, although I can't see them) on my right foot that are not flush with the ground. I only notice them when running/walking barefoot or with VFF shoes. It's annoying.

</comment><comment><USER15> This week's Real Sports on HBO has more on the topic. The interesting part to me was that people who run with shoes tend to land on their heel (causing more of a shock), while people who run barefoot tend to land on the front of their feet.

</comment><comment><USER16> I have a few friends that are into this and have been praising it's benefits for a couple years. I tore a tendon in my ankle last year and am concerned this could hurt my recovery. Anyone have experience running barefoot post injury?

<comment><USER17> [http://suburbiarebooted.blogspot.com/2010/01/how-i-became- ba...](http://suburbiarebooted.blogspot.com/2010/01/how-i-became-barefoot- runner.html)

Summary: My ankle is probably worse than anyone else's. Barefoot running is the only way to go for me!

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Out of curiosity, is this shoe design patented or could nike/adidas/reebok/etc come in and change the market with their own version?

</comment><comment><USER19> I've been running barefoot on the beach since I was a kid. Unaware that such practice would now be considered better than running with shoes. I did it for fun, splashing the water or just feeling the moist of the sand by the sea shore.

</comment><comment><USER20> Take of your shoes?

It might just be me, but after having read that article I didn't get much new information.

Could we please consider a hiatus about barefoot running on Hacker News for a couple months? By that time, the jury should be in on what the medium term benefit is of these things and we should have some interesting new information to read.</comment>


Ask HN: If I'd make you an app for free, what would you have me build for you? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> PR firms are hired all the time to covertly post positive information online about a company and/or its products. I would love a Chrome extension that uses a database of known offenders to flag content as suspicious. Or a big red "x" next to the "Buy" button of any product who's maker participates in these deceptive practices. We have AdBlock. I want PRBlock.</comment>


Flight Simulator Installs Password-Stealing Malware in Attempt to Combat Piracy - <AUTHOR> https://motherboard.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/pamzqk/fs-labs-flight-simulator-password-malware-drm?__twitter_impression=true <comment><USER2> I just don't understand the end game here, find banking passwords and transfer the cost of the game? That seems like fighting civil liability with easily traceable felonies.

<comment><USER3> That's what I thought as well. It doesn't seem that they though farther than "if you pirate our game, we'll get all your passwords to everything".

Goddamn that's all sorts of evil and disproportionate. They should be sued to hell.

<comment><USER4> The forum post from the developer says: "This method has already successfully provided information that we're going to use in our ongoing legal battles against such criminals."

So their plan seems to be using the stolen account information to find the identities of people that they think are pirating their software.

<comment> GuB-42 IANAL but isn't that illegally obtained and therefore unacceptable evidence?

<comment><USER5> IANAL, but in the US, I think only government agencies are barred from introducing illegally-obtained evidence.

I could be wrong, but I think that if I (as a private citizen, not affiliated with any law enforcement agency) steal evidence to submit to the police, then that evidence is still admissible in court, provided no government agent solicited me to steal it. However, I would still be guilty of any crimes I committed to obtain that evidence.

Sort of like how Facebook isn't subject to the first amendment. The bill of rights only protects against government actions.

<comment><USER6> I think you are wrong but I'm not a legal expert.

Stealing evidence doesn't allow you to provide it in court. Because the very fact that you stole it will call into question the veracity of everything else you say and do.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


A fast HTTP request/response parser for Common Lisp - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/fukamachi/fast-http <comment><USER2> For context, Eitaro Fukamachi has been working on a whole bunch of things relating to the low-level parts of Common Lisp web development: A fast HTTP parser, a fast URI parser[0], a libuv-based web server[1] (That outperforms Node!), and he's also written Clack[2], which is Common Lisp's Rack/WSGI.

[0]: [https://github.com/fukamachi/quri](https://github.com/fukamachi/quri)

[1]: [https://github.com/fukamachi/woo](https://github.com/fukamachi/woo)

[2]: [https://github.com/fukamachi/clack](https://github.com/fukamachi/clack)

<comment><USER3> > (That outperforms Node!)

In what way? All of the benchmarks I'm seeing on that page indicate otherwise.

<comment><USER2> When he first posted it, it did, it looks like recent changes have brought that down:

[https://github.com/fukamachi/woo/commit/be4a0db688af05ee204e...](https://github.com/fukamachi/woo/commit/be4a0db688af05ee204ec37c5c185f13a4fe8e36)

<comment><AUTHOR> Right. When I added default headers, the score went way down.

Probably libevent2 is the bottleneck and no way to make it faster without switching its backend (the cl-async's author is working on rewriting it with libuv now).

<comment><USER4> Out of curiosity did you try basic-binary-ipc? I would expect it would lose out to cl-async, but have never benchmarked the two against each other.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I've always assumed Clojure was the right choice for a Lisp to do web applications. Perhaps I should revaluate my assumptions.

<comment><USER6> If you're assuming this based on some microbenchmarks, you should probably instead reevaluate your evaluation techniques.

(This isn't meant as a personal jab, but too many people focus on silly things like microbenchmarks when choosing tools, and _not_ on other more important things like support avenues, tooling, libraries, etc.)

<comment><USER7> I don't think it's fair to assume that TheMagicHorsey was basing his evaluation on the microbenchmarks themselves.

The real story here is that people are working on a number of new libraries/modules/tools for doing web development in CL — the benchmarks (as you correctly point out) are a minor detail.

<comment><USER6> Perhaps you should read more carefully. "If you're assuming ..."

It's just _not_ clear from the context we have. But, caution! Microbenchmarks should only be Microtrusted.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> In the HTTP benchmark game, there is also Bryan O'Sullivan's attoparsec-based parser: [http://www.serpentine.com/blog/2014/05/31/attoparsec/](http://www.serpentine.com/blog/2014/05/31/attoparsec/) The important point is that the parser is a few dozen lines of code (i.e. it relies on a general parsing library instead of being custom hand-written code).

</comment><comment><USER9> Is parsing HTTP headers a major bottleneck? HTML parsing, sure, especially with the horrors of HTML 5 error handling per the spec and the need to back up after guessing the character set. But HTTP headers are not that big or complex.

<comment><USER2> From the Reddit thread: [http://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/2klhpn/quri_a_uri_libr...](http://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/2klhpn/quri_a_uri_library_for_common_lisp_6x_faster_than/clmsfzd)

>Right. When I was profiling Wookie, I found URL parsing was the third bottleneck (the first is HTTP request parsing, and the second is libevent2).

<comment><USER9> Yes, that's really important for compatibility with Google Wave.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> This reminds me of John Fremlin's work back in 2009 [http://john.freml.in/teepeedee2-c10k](http://john.freml.in/teepeedee2-c10k) . (Hello, John!)

</comment><comment><USER11> Just curious what about this parser makes it faster? Can anyone give a basic explanation?

<comment><USER12> Well if you implemented the c parser with precisely the same algorithms the c one would become faster, so one can assume they have totoally different underlying implementations

<comment><USER13> That is not necessarily true (and I say this as someone who heavily favors C for parsers). An implementation with a JIT will likely be able to optimize away work by noticing that the table of callbacks is empty.

I would be more impressed if the callback table was not empty (and the callbacks actually did something, like increment an integer) and Lisp was still winning.

EDIT: I see others saying that SBCL is AOT, not JIT. If so I'd be very interested to look at the disassembly side-by-side and see an explanation for why SBCL is winning.

<comment><USER14> SBCL is a compiled Common LISP (even in interpreted mode, it compiles every eval-ed lambda before calling it).

On the other hand there is nothing inherently stopping the optimiser from optimising the resulting code as well or better than GCC or any C compiler. Theoretically it could produce optimal machine code.

<comment><USER13> Correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that Common Lisp is memory-safe (implying guards like bounds-checks), dynamically typed (implying type checks) and garbage collected (implying GC overhead).

<comment><USER14> Yep but all these checks don't necessarily need to happen at runtime. A clever enough compiler can optimise all of it (or most of it) at compile time. In general this is a very hard problem but for something static enough (like a simple parser) the compiler can produce code and determine its safety without needing to carry checks on to the runtime.

Note that C code or machine code would also have to perform input checks at runtime when doing http header parsing. A Common Lisp compiler wouldn't theoretically need to produce code performing any more runtime checks than these.

<comment><USER15> You can also manually turn some checks off. In some Lisp systems, declaring an optimization setting of (safety 0) will turn off a bunch of checks, even ones that the compiler can't statically determine are safe to skip. Of course this should be used very carefully if at all (especially in code that's parsing arbitrary data from the internet!).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> parsed = http_parser_execute(parser, &settings_null, buf, strlen(buf));

assert(parsed == strlen(buf));

He's calling strlen(buf) twice here. There's no guarantee that this is optimized at compile time. Usually len of buf is determined from read/recv system calls and for a fair comparison strlen should be removed here.

<comment><AUTHOR> No difference even though I ran the benchmark again after removing the line.

<comment><USER16> Interesting. I was expecting at least cpu branch improvements given the lack of assert.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Hmm, I can't really write lisp, but, how maintainable is this?? [https://github.com/fukamachi/fast- http/blob/master/src/parse...](https://github.com/fukamachi/fast- http/blob/master/src/parser.lisp)

<comment><USER18> It could do with some comments and doc-strings certainly, but I'd give it a pass for now as it's a new project. As for the code, I imagine that in any language, highly optimised programs can start looking pretty odd after a while. Try understanding "grep" for example:

[http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/grep.git/tree/src/grep.c](http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/grep.git/tree/src/grep.c)

As a guy not particularly proficient in C, that looks crazy to me. Although it does at least have decent comments, which I'd expect for such a mature project!

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I was not able to run the benchmark for Lisp. What Lisp implementation is expected? I tried CLISP and got:

        *** - READ from #<INPUT BUFFERED FILE-STREAM CHARACTER #P"benchmark.lisp" @1>: there is no package with name "SYNTAX"

<comment><USER2> I'd recommend SBCL, since a high-performance JIT compiler is likely to give more representative results than a bytecode VM like CLISP. Plus, I'd expect some minor portability errors to arise when you push the envelope like this.

By the way, your error seems to be that the cl-syntax library is not being found, as opposed to a portability problem, so maybe you don't have Quicklisp installed and loaded?

<comment><USER19> Pedantic correction: Unless something's changed very radically since I last looked, SBCL's compiler is AOT not JIT. (Though in interactive use it compiles things as you enter them, which I suppose is kinda JIT if you look at it from just the right angle and squint.)

<comment><USER2> You're right, and I always make this mistake for the reason that AOT/JIT look the same from the outside.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Is Lisp a write-only language?

<comment><USER18> I'll assume this is an honest question - not a troll (and hence don't deserve the downvotes), but no, Lisp isn't write-only.

It's an immensely flexible language that lets you code in a variety of different styles, so you _can_ end up with code spaghetti. But that doesn't mean that you have to, or even that it's the most likely thing to happen.

If you compare it to idiomatic Perl, where a lot of the community seem to get obsessed with the famous one-liners, Lisp seems a lot better to me. And if you follow a decent style guide like:

[https://google- styleguide.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/lispguide...](https://google- styleguide.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/lispguide.xml)

Then there's no particular reason why you should end up with disaster code anymore than in any another language. I'd rather read a single page of Lisp, than the equivalent numerous pages of Java or some other verbose language.</comment></comment>


The Fed says it will build a Real-Time interbank payments system - <AUTHOR> https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2019/08/10/the-fed-says-it-will-build-a-real-time-interbank-payments-system <comment><USER2> Welcome to the 21st century, America!

Jokes aside, I'm still amazed every time my monthly consulting fee arrives from Taiwan into my Swedish corporate banking account more or less instantly.

This must surely be the same for e.g. Taiwan to US? Is it just US to US that is so slow?

<comment><USER3> ACH is slow and inaccessible to most consumers for P2P payments, debit networks cost real money to use in the USA, and alternatives like Zelle are patchy in support among banks and have low sending limits.

The USA has tons of banks and credit unions. Many small towns will have a bank that only has one or two branches, yet has their own full IT infrastructure.

These small banks barely have websites, let alone comprehensive online banking. The most technically advanced thing these types of banks do is integrate with the Co-op ATM network for withdrawls and deposits.

US payment infrastructure is ossified badly, and desparately needs reform.</comment></comment>


The Colour-Blind Anaesthetist (source: 1995) - <AUTHOR> https://twitter.com/colourblindorg/status/1255963356680380423/photo/1 <comment><AUTHOR> The original source for this letter is at [https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2044.1995...](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2044.1995.tb05984.x)</comment>


Chunky Bacon in the Land of Lisp - <AUTHOR> http://www.flyingmachinestudios.com/programming/chunky-bacon-lisp/ <comment><USER2> I am a rubyist who has wanted to learn lisp. However, the plethora of lisps has made this choice difficult with people advising to start with one lisp (scheme, iirc) and then move over to lisp.

Could you tell me which lisp you are using? IIRC, there's SBCL and various others. Thanks for putting down the resources you are reading. Have you considered clojure or other alternatives? How did you decide on CL ?

<comment><USER3> I started with CL because I started learning lisp through the excellent book "Land of Lisp". However, I've since moved to Clojure, which I would recommend over CL. The main reason is that you can do more with Clojure. The packaging system is a lot easier to deal with, and you have a lot more at your disposal through your access to Java libraries. Another good reason is that Clojure is just more pleasant to deal with than CL. For example, there are many CL implementations and dealing with their differences is a pain in the ass. With Clojure, you have a lot more good ideas baked right into the language.

I hope this helps!

<comment><USER2> Thanks, I have a Java background, so that should help. However, from what I recall many of the articles on learning Clojure recommended learning Lisp/Scheme first. Do you agree?

Also, they strongly recommended learning Emacs (I have been a Vim'mer for about 20 years, and I like keeping my Vim simple with only a few plugins).

Does one just jump into Clojure or how do you recommend it? If lisp/scheme first, then which one? Thx.

<comment><USER3> It's hard for me to really say, but at the least I can talk about my own experience. I began learning Common Lisp by going through "Land of Lisp" by Conrad Barski, and because it was so fun it really helped to keep me motivated while learning such a different way of programming. The book was also useful in that you learned through writing short programs which actually did something, which I found to be a great teaching style. I mean, I really, really loved going through that book.

As far as I know, there are no comparable books for Clojure. However, once I became familiar with CL, it was not at all difficult to pick up Clojure. Sure, Clojure has some new ideas, especially when it comes to mutability and concurrency. But in terms of the basic language, it's very similar to CL and in many ways it's easier to work with.

As for emacs - I also strongly recommend using it. It has great support for lisp and really makes development a joy. Emacs itself is written in a lisp variant, elisp. If you do decide to go with emacs, use this: <https://github.com/technomancy/emacs-starter-kit> . It's a great set of packages pulled together by someone who, it turns out, is very big in the Clojure community. I'm not really sure what the best resource is for learning emacs these days.

I've really enjoyed the way I've learned lisp, and I feel comfortable recommending that you start with Land of Lisp and emacs. I hope this helps!</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Not Your Problem - <AUTHOR> http://howtomakeanrpg.com/a/not-your-problem.html <comment><USER2> As a person who spent his last 6 years making EVERY SINGLE MISTAKE presented in this article, I have to agree: it's solid advice.

Unfortunately, I may not have accepted it 6 years ago. I justified writing everything myself by saying I was learning. I justified buying C++ books by saying I wanted to be a "true" game developer. Then I justified switching to another language by saying I needed faster iterations and prototyping. I spent hours and days trying to make everything work on both windows and linux.

Me and a couple of friends just released our first game on google play last week [1]. It's stupid and only our friends and family played it. We didn't monetize it (it's 100% free, no adds) and we didn't promote it anywhere. It was made in two weeks, spending a few hours each day. I'm not very proud of it, but I'm extremely proud of myself for pushing through and finishing it.

Hopefully, our next game will be something people will actually like.

1\. [https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.manabreak](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.manabreak)

<comment><USER3> Congrats on finishing something! That alone puts you ahead of probably half the game devs out there :) I've also done a few releases of smaller games to get "something" done, warts and all. Learn from it, do better on the next one.

A few months ago I had the idea to combine a bunch of mini games that I could make quickly with a defined scope that wouldn't send me down that rabbit hole, and package them together as a collection. I'm pretty happy with how it came out, even if it hasn't been a commercial success yet. Plus now it's easy to add another minigame or two as an update, which I'm working on right now. For purchasers, the value keeps increasing.

<comment><USER4> Sometimes I think about doing a wario ware style game. Can you post the link for your game?

<comment><USER3> Sure: [http://elusivegames.com](http://elusivegames.com) I'm in the process of adding a few new ganes and game modes.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> As someone who has spent the last 3-4 years on and off making a Football Manager game ([https://github.com/lifebeyondfife/Cm93](https://github.com/lifebeyondfife/Cm93)) that started as a weekend project - I loved this.

I recognise so many of the bullet points the author recommends avoiding, and why they're so tempting, but ultimately it's all great advice. The last ones like this I remember considering were Steam integration, and database encryption to make cheating harder _shakes head_.

I'm determined to finish within 5 years, and never start another Duke Nukem again.

<comment><USER6> This looks quite good already. Nice work. I would love something to substitute for the drab experience of FM. Would you be offering Linux support in the future?

<comment><USER5> > Would you be offering Linux support in the future?

Answer can be inferred from my previous comment :)

Seriously though, thanks so much for the interest. The tech stack is C# and WPF specifically which Microsoft does not appear to be keen to port to any other platform.

If this version takes off when finished, I could be convinced to recreate as a web or Android app.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Ha :) "Or drawing UML diagrams (Here's a secret; no one does this.)"

Question: do they still insist on UML at university? I remember they did for me, and with ten years in IT I have never since seen a single UML document by anyone, much less created one.

Not sure what he meant by the XML bullet point, or the .NET under level editors. Using XML or JSON for a config file is trivial in most modern frameworks, like .NET (e.g. Unity).

<comment><USER8> > Question: do they still insist on UML at university?

I had a course [1] where the lecturer _insisted_ on UML diagrams. And, even worse, they _insisted_ on using a specific proprietary Java software and submitting the diagrams in that program's proprietary format.

Fortunately, my TA (who actually graded these diagrams) was much more lenient, but we had to do at least those UML diagrams that went up to the lecturer.

[1] The course was about applied development practices. Students were split into groups of 5 and had to develop a simple web application. It was really horrible; the lecturer had never heard of agile and forced us into a waterfall process in which 60% of the time was spent documenting requirements and drawing bogus diagrams.

<comment><USER9> > It was really horrible; the lecturer had never heard of agile and forced us > into a waterfall process in which 60% of the time was spent documenting > requirements and drawing bogus diagrams.

It sounds like the lecturer did an effective job of convincing people how valuable agile can be.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> That's why I recommend jams like Ludum Dare [1]. You're constrained to 48 hours. You can't waste time on writing an engine in that amount of time; you can't work on anything else than the game content itself.

[1] [http://ludumdare.com/compo/](http://ludumdare.com/compo/)

<comment><USER11> If anyone is inspired to dive in today, there's currently ongoing PROCJAM[1] which might be right up your ally.

[https://itch.io/jam/procjam](https://itch.io/jam/procjam)

<comment><USER12> Cough, ahem, if you and parent didn't read all the way to the end:

> _Consume Less_

> _Reading 20 articles a day on game development feels like work. It is work! > But it 's useless unproductive work, it's not moving the needle._

> _Better to spend less time on Gamasutra, TIGSource, r /gamedev/ (or where > ever the cool kids hang out these days) and a little more time in your > editor getting stuff done._

I'd be inclined to say that Ludum Dare and Twitch or itch or whatever are up there in the _" where ever the cool kids hang out these days"_ list.

<comment><USER13> You might want to go to ludum dare's website and see what it's about, it has nothing to do with twitch...

If your goal is to release your first game, I fail to see how Ludum Dare doesn't help: it's goal is effectively to release a game.

<comment><USER12> I know what Lumdum Dare is, you're missing the point I was trying to light heartedly try and make....

<comment><USER14> I'm afraid I'm missing the point too. Would you mind finding another way to make it?

If the core point of the essay is to cut the YAGNI and just get something shipped, aren't gamejames like Ludum Dare a great way to do that?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> True words. There's so much YAGNI and NIH that people pour their motivation/time/effort into and end up with nothing.

Btw, Handmade Hero is really a prime example of this stupidity.

Personal addendum: [https://github.com/ensisoft/pinyin- invaders](https://github.com/ensisoft/pinyin-invaders)

<comment><USER16> Stupidity!? Handmade Hero seems to me to be a uniquely great resource for learning the guts of game development. He's made it clear from day one, and has reiterated often, that the aim isn't to make a game as fast as possible, and that there are lots of good engines available if you just want to make a game. Are you sure you're not judging it by the wrong standards?

<comment><USER15> Handmade Hero, day 325 ticket mutexes. Yawwwn.... Most of the stuff that he spends (wastes) his time on is really not relevant to a game development, at least not initially if at all.

I personally view it as an "exploration in NIH" under the ruse of "game development".

It does make up for an kinda amusing show tho. "Day 4524, debugging my shitty vector implementation" (;

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Mostly good advice, but I find test-first helpful even for personal projects. And Qt is superb for internal editor tools. Drag and drop the widgets in the designer, write a few lines of Python to wire it up as an actual program, done. It won't look pretty and it will waste memory but it will work.

<comment><USER11> I think the point of article is to resist learning Qt while making a game, because you believe it would make you more productive some time later. If you already know Qt and can do lots of work quickly, more power to you. IMO, Qt is powerful technology with good future; getting familiar with it is a fantastic investment for young people in IT, just not so much in game development.

<comment><USER17> I mean obviously don't write a GUI if a CLI will do, and don't write a CLI if editing text files will do. But if you do need a GUI editor then I think Qt is the fastest/best way to get from zero to working GUI.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> This assumes that shipping the game is the primary objective. While that will be true for professional projects, when working on an amateur project my goals are:

1\. Have fun coding

2\. Learn new technologies

Actually shipping is way down the list, almost a side effect. If I wanted pressure and deadlines I would just get a job at a game dev studio.

<comment><USER19> if you're trying to do it for fun, it seems more like a to-do list

<comment><USER20> Ummmm... MFC?!?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> From the url I thought this was going to be about homemade rocket powered grenades.

<comment><USER22> aren't they just propelled and not totally powered by rockets?

<comment><USER21> You're right! I guess I made that up whilst playing Duke3d. :-)

</comment></comment></comment><comment> Green-Man Most of the advices can be extrapolated to the other fields of development. Not only the software development. But the goal should be highlighted: making the things done. I think there is even a methodology for this: JFDI

</comment><comment><USER23> These days using Unity is definitely the best bet for just about everything. Even low end phones are fast enough to use it, so there's just not much benefit to using something lightweight or writing from scratch.

Game development has changed a lot and now it seems that it is more about content curation and design, selecting the right plugins and models from the Asset Store and putting them together in a creative way.

The business model has changed as well, it's not so much about making a masterpiece with perfect gameplay anymore, but more about hitting the right niche at the right time with something novel. There are hundreds of games released every day on mobile, thousands of games on Steam Greenlight, and tens of thousands of free games on itch.io. Games have become YouTube, and the makeup tips and unboxing channels are bound to win out over Sundance documentaries, so finding the right niche is probably a good bet.

</comment><comment><USER24> Could someone enlighten me what the problem is with automated documentation systems?

Have they stopped to "just work" in creating an overview of all global variables, functions, classes and their inheritance?

I found it very convenient to just drop a few documentation strings at the function/class definition for looking it up later in the autogenerated documentation. Of course you can overcomplicate these things and waste time. But in my opinion autogenerated documentation is better than no documentation at all.

</comment><comment><USER25> This is a good list of what not to do. Can anyone recommend what to do to make a simple game? I thought I'd give Unity a try because of the vast learning resources. Turns out it's pretty kludgy to get things done. Unreal Engine seems to have a steeper learning curve but is of somewhat better quality. I had the most fun trying to write my own OpenGL renderer in C++ but of course that's a rabbit trail off of making an actual game. What is the most productive environment for beginners?

<comment><USER26> For developing 2D games, I've found the combination of Love2D [0], Bump.lau [1], anim8 [2], and Gamera [3] to be extremely productive for me. This is a Lua game engine with additional libraries for collision detection, animation, and moveable/zoomable camera.

I'm an embedded C++ programmer by day so I've almost certainly done many of the things on the OP's list. It wasn't until I set C++ aside after 15 years or so and gave Lua a chance that I finally started making real headway on my Secret Agent Sam remake.

[0] [http://love2d.org/](http://love2d.org/) [1] [https://github.com/kikito/bump.lua](https://github.com/kikito/bump.lua) [2] [https://github.com/kikito/anim8](https://github.com/kikito/anim8) [3] [https://github.com/kikito/gamera](https://github.com/kikito/gamera)

(Note: I'm not kikito, just an appreciative user of his work)

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> I've learned many of these things while participating in game jams. My issue now is how to make the leap from game jam game to full release. In my case it feels like all the fun stuff is already done once you have successfully submitted to a game jam.

</comment><comment><USER28> vow, what a great article. Really enjoyed it, you've cracked me up at "SOAP -You are so far from the road of game development, you can't even see it." I've developed some small games, but never published them, only showed to colleagues and friends. Coding games is a like a hobby for me as I've my daily job as a web developer. I'd really like to step in indie gaming scene someday and I'll definitely follow the advice from this blog post.

</comment><comment><USER29> I won't lie, I clicked the link to see how to build a rocket propelled grenade.</comment>


Programmer Conned CIA, Pentagon Into Buying Bogus Anti-Terror Code - <AUTHOR> http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/12/montgomery-2/ <comment><USER2> _This is crazy. This is embarrassing.'. . . I said, 'Give us the algorithms that allowed you to come up with this stuff.' They wouldn't even do that. And I was screaming, 'You gave these people fucking money?'_

That pretty much sums it up perfectly. I think part of the problem that allows things like this to happen is that, to some people, computers are magic. They don't understand how they work and feeding Al Jazeera video feed through a computer program and having it spit out terrorist plots sounds almost feasible.

<comment><USER3> Some? Try most.

People fear the unknown and sadly the world of technology and computers are still very much a black box for the vast majority of people on earth.

My dad, ivy educated phd, still thinks that coding is like the movie hackers.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Having worked on many government and DoD contracts, I find this rather unsurprising. The phrase "tip of the iceberg" comes to mind..

<comment><USER5> Part of the problem is a fairly large number of projects are theoretical research initially. What is more surprising is they didn't seem to apply a "peer review" to this.

I find it very hard to believe that the DoD (NSA?) do not have sufficient highly talented programmers / analysts to review these programs.

Another issue is that after 9/11, they were evaluating a larger number of possible solutions, In the hope that at least some of them produce viable results.

<comment><USER3> Not sure if you can really bucket this under "theoretical research." Theoretical research is at least grounded in logic and paper rationale. This case seems like a mix of equal parts ponzi scheme showmanship, conspiracy theory, and tech-illiterate paranoids.

I don't even think this ever got to the hands of the NSA or people who have the technical proficiency to call bs (this in and of itself is surprising given the sheer stupidity of what this clown was trying to sell).

If anything this fraud was faciliated by petty political and institutional bureaucratic jostling for relevance, power, and funding. Basically some tards, convinced that they're onto something big, hides it from everyone else because they don't want to share in the credit/fame. Not surprising given this is the US govt. Hell most corporations are like this too.

What I find most troubling about all of this is that after 9/11 there was a such a stink about intra-department communication and cooperation. The argument being that if people simply talked more with one another lapses in security and plain dum-dum-ness would be greatly reduced if not eliminated outright. Fuck, Bush even created a whole department to do just this!

<comment><USER5> I agree with all 3 of your points.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> A fool and his money are soon parted.

This story made me laugh, because it's like a modern re-telling of the Hans Andersen story "The Emperor's New Clothes". The Emperor, in this case played by George Bush and company, are so eager to believe all sorts of paranoid fantasies, such as that evil-doers are broadcasting secret messages via TV, that when a charlatan comes along claiming that he can prove that their darkest nightmares are true they're keen to make sure he gets to work on the tailoring right away, with no expense spared!

<comment> brown9-2 Do you really think that this kind of willingness-to-believe stops at "George Bush and company"?

I mean can understand the hilarity of the situation, but seriously - this guy should be in jail.

<comment><USER6> No it doesn't, and that's why the Hans Andersen story is so timeless. Foolishness in the form of being too quick to believe your own prejudices is, alas, a common failing.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Original article: [http://www.playboy.com/articles/the-man-who-conned-the- penta...](http://www.playboy.com/articles/the-man-who-conned-the-pentagon- dennis-montgomery/index.html?page=1)

SFW, in theory. And by that I mean there are no nipples until you click the Girls link at the top of the page.

</comment><comment><USER8> Great. Now programmers are going to be labeled as terrorists.

<comment><USER9> Sounds like this guys problem was he was a salesman and not a programmer or computer scientist.

<comment><USER10> Hey, remember that whole discussion about measuring the productivity of programmers through the amount of money someone is willing to pay for their "output?"

Sounds like this guy was a very productive programmer.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Among all the mistakes the US govt made due to post-9/11 paranoia (Iraq, Patriot Act...), this is comparatively a tiny one. Unsurprising.

</comment><comment><USER12> There's a remarkable amount of stupidity in the world when it comes to computers.

Governments seem to attract a particularly high density of computer-illiterate people. I wish I could understand why, but it truly boggles my mind.

</comment><comment><USER13> Now that is a twisted story.... By the way, I hate to say it but why is _Playboy_ the trusted source in this article?

<comment><USER14> i don't want to be _'that guy'_ , but Playboy does publish legitimate articles (in the style of, say, Rolling Stone or Vanity Fair or GQ). at least in its early years, it was well-known (in part) for its left-leaning editorials and investigative articles

wasn't it around 2004 that Playboy published a pretty high-profile interview with the Google founders right before their IPO, and there was some legal hiccups with the SEC due to what they disclosed in that interview?

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Playboy?

<comment><USER16> Sure. Among interviewed subjects - Bertrand Russel, Jawaharlal Nehru, Albert Schweitzer, Nabokov, Dali, Martin Luther King, Jean-Paul Sartre, Frederico Fellini, Fidel Castro, Arnold Toynbee, John Kenneth Galbraith, Ralph Nader, William Buckley, Jr., Albert Speer, George McGovern, R. Buckminster Fuller, Yevgeny Yevtushenko, Milton Freedman, Tennessee Williams, Walter Cronkite, Jimmy Carter, Edward Teller, William Shockley, Lech Walesa, Ansel Adams, Yasser Arafat, Carl Sagan, William Safire, Bill Gates, Salman Rushdie, Pope John Paul II.

Ok, I made one of those up. But just one.

<comment><USER17> Ayn Rand too, back in the 50s or 60s.

<comment><USER16> Right, I was going mostly for 'major importance' or 'intellectual heft', really.

<comment><USER18> I am no fan of Rand, but I reflexively downvote any comments like yours. Answering faulty reasoning with sheer dumbassery isn't helpful.

The fact is, Rand's work was a legitimate reaction to some very real abuses, and it was extremely influential in economic and political circles throughout the second half of the twentieth century. The fact that you don't like her ideas doesn't alter the first fact.

<comment><USER16> Oh getting all frothy at the mouth in an essentially joke thread is absurd. And 'reflexively downvoting' is a lot closer to dumbassery than replying to a comment. Whatever I think of her ideas, I don't think Ayn Rand is remotely in the caliber of people I put on the list, in terms of importance. That's why I didn't put her on the list and that's what I was explaining to the responder.

<comment><USER18> (shrug) Not getting frothy, just explaining the downvote. Peace.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Persuasive proof that America is full of racist and selfish people - <AUTHOR> https://www.vox.com/conversations/2017/6/13/15768622/facebook-social-media-seth-stephens-davidowitz-everybody-lies <comment><USER2> Are they really selfish?

I'm surprised by what a cliche it is for people to vote against their own interests as long as you give them an outgroup to hate.

Seems like a deeply embedded human flaw.

<comment><USER3> I don't believe it's a specifically human flaw, but one of social creatures. Humans are just really good at providing examples.</comment></comment>


German Circus Uses Stunning Holograms Instead of Live Animal Performers - <AUTHOR> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/german-circus-uses-stunning-holograms-instead-live-animal-performers-180972376/ <comment><USER2> It is clearly not a real hologram, but I can't find any technical details. The better source I got was this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3KbgGJux4E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3KbgGJux4E) It looks like a projection on a cylindrical screen, and the description says:

> _Circus Roncalli is a German circus founded in 1976. Bluebox successfully > installed 11x ZU850 Optoma models and 11x BX-CTA03 lenses to create a truly > amazing circus holographic experience._

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> More pics are available on the BBC website [0].

[0] [https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/48543263](https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/48543263)</comment>


Ask HN: How would you solve climate change? - <AUTHOR> If you had access to all the capital and resources you needed, how would you solve climate change?<p>I think some sort of large scale geoengineering to achieve global carbon neutrality, maybe a genetically modified algae or cyanobacteria that would sequester a lot more CO2 than any current plant or bacteria. <comment><USER2> I would adapt to my new environment, likely building a concrete home under ground, which I have always wanted to do regardless. I would have a carbon neutral home that requires little or no air conditioning.

Some people won't be able to do this due to the soil conditions and engineering resources. Those that can, should. It also makes for more usable land for a garden or crops and keeps your valuables out of sight.

Engineered correctly, I can weather any rain or fire storm. The real challenge will be building my underground garden. It has been done, just not easy at all. There are many other challenges that are not cheap to solve.

I know you wanted to solve climate change and this method would require mass participation. I just know humans well enough to know that anything bigger will take decades to implement. I can do this tiny step now.

<comment><USER3> You need to find a place out of fluvial plain or near a cost, because you'll have a hard time dealing with floods.

<comment><USER2> I have taken that into consideration. The entire unit will be double walled with ludicrous amounts of concrete, rebar and I-Beams. There will be heavy gauge steel pipes that extend 120' above ground level.

That said, the place I am looking at is about 2000' feet above sea level, but may be subjected to snow and ice.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Global population reduction. Sterilise 90% of people at birth, within a generation the human population will be at a sustainable level. 7/8 billion people isn't sustainable.

<comment><USER3> I have a hard time imagining how societies would not collapse with a sudden drastic population reduction. We would probably lose a lots of skills. Our financial systems would not survive. Unfortunately, our civilization is addicted growth.

I am not saying you are wrong. Population reduction would definitely help but I don't see a simple solution like that working. It is much more drastic than a 1 child policy.

Assuming you have ways to enforce a global 1 child policy, it would only divide the population by 2 every generation, but it seems more humane. (But won't really help growth or financial prospects)

Anyway at some point, we will get the population reduction, voluntarily or not.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Feeding cows seaweed has been shown to reduce methane emissions. Awards for putting out coal seam fires, or awards for technology that reduces the cost of putting out coal seam fires.

</comment><comment><USER6> I would introduce a heavy tax on greenhouse gas emissions, and I would redistribute all the revenues as universal basic income.

</comment><comment><USER7> Introduce a heavy tax on fossil fuels and use the revenue to subsidize research and development and installation of sustainable energy sources.</comment>


Gentzen's Rules for Natural Deduction - <AUTHOR> https://blog.plover.com/math/logic/lk.html <comment><USER2> The paper referenced also defines Gentzen's sequent calculus, an even nicer formulation of logic:

[http://www.digizeitschriften.de/download/PPN266833020_0039/P...](http://www.digizeitschriften.de/download/PPN266833020_0039/PPN266833020_0039___log32.pdf#page=18)

<comment><USER3> When I click that link in firefox it starts opening like 20-tabs a second. Chrome works.

<comment><USER4> I also linked the PDF directly from my blog article, at [https://pic.blog.plover.com/math/logic/lk/Gentzen1934.pdf](https://pic.blog.plover.com/math/logic/lk/Gentzen1934.pdf) , partly because I found the Digizeitschriften page annoying.

<comment><USER2> Indeed, though that's to the entire volume - I was trying to link directly to the individual Gentzen papers (though by the fairly slow download maybe they are being created dynamically).

Thanks for the interesting blog piece though - maybe you could write one about Gentzen's consistency proof?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> For comparison, here are the natural deduction rules expressed in modern notation:

[https://leanprover.github.io/logic_and_proof/nd_quickref.htm...](https://leanprover.github.io/logic_and_proof/nd_quickref.html)

<comment><USER6> The most significant difference between Gentzen's original calculus and the way it is most often given today is that discharge of assumptions are associated with labels in modern calculus, so each discharged assumption is tied to a rule, whereas in Gentzen's calculus, all instances of that proposition are discharged.

The innovation is essential to the Curry-Howard correspondence, because this labelling of assumptions matches variable bindings in typed lambda calculus.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Very fun.

It turns out that it is easy to implement a natural deduction system using a system based on Hilbert's approach. A discussion on this for metamath's set.mm is here:

[http://us.metamath.org/mpeuni/mmnatded.html#natural- deductio...](http://us.metamath.org/mpeuni/mmnatded.html#natural-deduction- metamath)

Many steps are an implication phi → ..., and the antecedent mimics the context (Γ) of most ND systems.

</comment><comment><USER8> another three good writing from same blog [https://blog.plover.com/math/logic/coherence- spaces.html](https://blog.plover.com/math/logic/coherence-spaces.html) [https://blog.plover.com/math/logic/cut- rule.html](https://blog.plover.com/math/logic/cut-rule.html) [https://blog.plover.com/math/IL- contradiction.html](https://blog.plover.com/math/IL-contradiction.html)

<comment><USER4> Thanks for your kind words.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> A quibble:

> Gentzen died at age 35, a casualty of the World War.

makes it sound as if GG was a soldier or something. In fact, he was an academic and Nazi party member who worked in Czechoslovakia during the occupation. Wikipedia describes his death so:

> Gentzen was arrested during the citizens uprising against the occupying > German forces on May 5, 1945. He, along with the rest of the staff of the > German University in Prague was subsequently handed over to Soviet forces. > Because of his past association with the SA, NSDAP and NSD Dozentenbund, > Gentzen was detained in a prison camp, where he died of starvation on August > 4, 1945.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Gentzen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Gentzen)

<comment><USER9> >>a casualty of the World War.

>makes it sound as if GG was a soldier or something

as we're in thread on logic, it worth noting that your statement is logically incorrect. Given that the most casualties of the WWII were civilians, saying that somebody was a casualty of that war means that most probably the person wasn't a soldier or something.

<comment><USER10> Pedanticly, "casualty" does actually mean specifically soldiers (or other military personel). Civilian deaths are called "murders" (or "executions"/"resisting capture"/not-at-all if your side is doing it). The term "civilian casualties" is a euphemism that was made up (IIRC _during_ WWII) to obscure/excuse bombing of civilian targets (especially factories). In practice, the euphemism has largely won, though.

<comment><USER4> No. See my reply to Charles upthread.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Video: A Look Inside TechStars  - <AUTHOR> http://www.somewhatfrank.com/2008/03/techstars.html <comment><USER2> If anyone is interested in someone with C++ skills and a background in finance for their project, feel free to contact me.

</comment><comment> daniel-cussen Is anyone here applying to TechStars?</comment>


Ask HN: How are you securing your home network? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> I keep it simple: UniFi Security Gateway connected to my fibre ONT, integrates well with my UniFi PoE APs.

It runs some flavour of Linux.

In the past I've maintained a custom FreeBSD or Linux server for this purpose but life's too short.

<comment><USER3> Did you get a UniFi POE switch too?

Just ordered a UniFi AP for home, we use them at work and they have been very good. I have ordered a seperate VDSL modem too (Openreach from ebay until I save for a Draytech 130).

I really like the look of the Unifi router...maybe next pay day!

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'm a nerd, I have my own PFsense router setup. This allows me to customize my entire network, with VLANs, snort and adblockers. I keep the Wifi on it's own seperate VLAN from my servers, so when guests come over I don't worry about them. I also have PIA setup by default so everything goes through a VPN. I highly recommend it! You gain network skills really quickly and it's not painful to setup once the OS is installed.

</comment><comment><USER5> Years ago, un my home, i used 2 layers of routers: 1 Linux and 1 openbsd.

In front of the Linux there was a cable-modem, and behind there where a couple DMZs, with servers, and wifi, and my home LAN.

I had my own DNS/DHCP servers.

Almost all services were internal (files, webs, git, streaming, databases, backups, monitoring...)

Nowadays, my home is rented, and i live in a nomad way were i get job. Just one laptop.

</comment><comment><USER6> I know I'll get slack for this, but I use a google WiFi router. Yes I know it shares info with google to enable some of the services it offers. However I'm already in the google ecosystem at work and use Gmail at home. So I don't think I've increased their access to my private life.

Their product is really simple to set up, offers a simplified "work for most" default setup but it also lets you dig into the router config details of you care.

It also offers a separate ssid for guests that only tunnels to internet and does not allow device to device communication on the lan.

There is something to be said for not requiring a lot of active effort.

FYI I don't host or run any internet facing services from my home network.

<comment><USER7> Same here. It came down to this or a pfsense + ubiquiti setup and convenience won out.

Easy to set up, performs incredible compared to the garbage netgear router it replaced, and I have at least some confidence that the firmware will be regularly updated, or updated to patch security vulnerabilities, which I can't say about anything from linksys/netgear/etc...

Pfsense obviously would allow updates, but again, convenience...

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I just use an Airport Extreme since I don't have enough complexity to warrant my own Linux box.</comment>


The Dudes Who Won't Wear Masks - <AUTHOR> https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/dudes-who-wont-wear-masks/613375/ <comment><AUTHOR> The article title is kind of click-baity but the sub-title was too long:

> Face coverings are a powerful tool, but health authorities can't simply > ignore the reasons some people refuse to use them.</comment>


Ask HN: Affordable, online university for getting a degree to quit programming? - throwaway-32 I'm a 32 years old self-taught programmer who has a strong resume and impressing experience, found jobs all over the world until today easily. But; I don't enjoy building software anymore. I do it just for bringing home money, I got one kid to take care of.
I enjoy reading books and learning a lot, so wouldn't mind working hard to start something new from scratch.
Getting a degree in Business is an option in my mind. I wonder if that would be a multiplier on top of my programming experience. I'm open for suggestions for studying something else, would be open to hear some ideas.
I found out that Arizona State University has a remote program, but it costs about 30k. I can't afford that. It's way above my budget.
Do you know any universities that has an affordable bachelors degree program ?
I live in Europe but it can be everywhere in the world. It'd be great if it's in US, so I can also improve my English along the way :) <comment><AUTHOR> I think you may benefit from thinking more concretely about what you want to do. It is one thing to say "not-programming" \- which is very broad, so broad that it is not terribly helpful - and quite another to say "I'd like to make a living as a jazz musician" or "a biology researcher" or any number of other things. Start there: what do you want to run _towards_ , rather than what you are running _away_ from.

Second, there are many possible career paths which are adjacent to programming, and which would use your technical skills, but not as part of your day-to-day. This could be project management, product management, technical writing, or even engineering people management. As before, if you have an idea of a _specific_ function in your organization that you would find interesting, and which would make use of your talents as a programmer, then this may be an easier route than starting from scratch.

When it comes to any of these functions, my advice would be to: (1) Find small ways to demonstrate your interest in aptitude for those skills. For example, work with your product manager to write a product brief ("Hey, can I take a crack at it and ask for your feedback? I'd love to learn how to do this kind of thing.") And, (2) if you are able, express to your current manager that you'd be interested in learning additional skills and possibly making a - deliberate, smooth - career transition.

If you pursue a degree - be it in business, or any other field - realize that you would likely be competing for jobs with others who have 10 years of experience in the field, rather than new college hires. This is not an impossible thing! But this does require a strong narrative, and your ability to articulate why you made a career change and what specifically you can offer based on your previous work experience in the unrelated field.

My overall point would be to really take some time to sketch out what you would want to do (in the affirmative), why it is interesting to you, and how specifically (not in a hand-wavy sense, but "here is a specific task that I could do more effectively and here is why") your current skills would have a multiplier effect on your new path.

Best of luck to you!

<comment><USER2> "(2) if you are able, express to your current manager that you'd be interested in learning additional skills and possibly making a - deliberate, smooth - career transition."

Based on my experience, that is unlikely to work. If you are not in an entry- level job, then your employer/supervisor, if reasonably intelligent and competent, will recognize that you're far more valuable doing what you've always done. So they may be nice to you, but they will resist. It's the flip side of the Peter Principle.

I think it's a better approach to get an entry-level job in the field/organization you want to transition to and then expand your job with the stuff you want to be doing.

<comment><USER3> Not necessarily. I would argue that any reasonable intelligent and competent employer/supervisor would recognize that an unhappy employee is going to provide diminishing returns over time, and the employer would be better served helping them explore related opportunities in the company. I've seen programs to help employees do exactly this at every place I've worked.

The only cases where I think it would usually be a problem are if your end goal is not with the company, or if the end result is seen as a going down the ladder (example: QA personnel moving into development is a positive move, but developers becoming a tester is often seen as a negative move)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I've came from almost the exact opposite, got a degree in something else and taught myself programming and made programming my career. In my limited experience, programming is the field where you're almost certain to deal with people with above-average logical reasoning skills and who are generally good natured. Same can't be said for other fields, there are definitely great minds in other fields, but there are almost no bound to the bad apples and you might end up dealing with those people much more regularly [In addition to not working in something as interesting as programming, but that probably only applies to me and not you]. Something to think about.

<comment><USER5> I came here to say basically the same thing, as my story is very similar.

One big thing to consider, which I wish I had known before college:

It's best to go get some relevant work experience __before __you undertake a degree program. This is true for several reasons:

1\. You find out if you even want this particular kind of job, and assuming you do, you should have a better idea what sort of specialization / direction you are interested in.

2\. You need to learn __what to learn __before you're in school. Industry people can give you good insight into what coursework and topics are more valuable and what is not worth your time. They can also help point you to the best learning opportunities / schools.

In my own academic experience, I did alright, but I found that when I finally emerged into the workforce many of my ideas about what I needed to know were false, and that I had missed out on material that would have really benefitted me.

In most fields the academics are barely or not at all connected to the industry, so they often can't help you with the "vocational" aspect of your education very much.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I went through a potentially similar experience as you, where I was feeling a bit burned out on writing software. There were other things I wanted to pursue like writing fiction, but I didn't necessarily have the budget to focus on it full-time.

I transitioned into working in a field that still leverages my technical skills, but in a different way -- I conduct technical interviews. It's been a really healthy change for me in a number of ways -- in addition to getting some face-to-face communication with real human beings & improving my interviewing/interpersonal skills, it's also given me the chance to work remotely and pursue the other things that interest me. And I've found it to be a huge relief to have a job that is separate from the stress of maintaining a codebase or crafting software all day which I found to be pretty draining.

The company I work for in this space pays well ($100 USD per 90-minute interview). If this is the kind of thing you (or anyone else reading this) might be interested in, send me an email and I would be happy to talk further about it! My email address is in my profile.

<comment><USER7> I'm surprised by the low rate for interview work. Interviews always wiped me out.

But I guess the interviewers get a lot of freedom and maybe get it's gets easier the more you do it.

<comment><USER6> It was challenging at first but you are definitely right that once you do it consistently for (maybe a month or so), it becomes a lot less taxing.

And yes -- a big part of the appeal is definitely the flexibility in terms of hours & location. It's been such an improvement to my quality of life to find a fully remote job.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I never studied business, but did spend a couple years as a product manager working with MBAs, and what I was told --- this could definitely be wrong --- about business degrees and, more importantly, business school is that most of the value was in physically attending and networking, and that you generally wanted to be in one of the top programs or not do it at all.

On the other hand, I have heard from other people that accounting classes are super valuable.

<comment><USER9> I agree with that sentiment but it is important to recognize that it is largely a class divide

People that go to US non-Ivy League non-Stanford MBA's have a very different opinion. I'm glad they've found/rationalized utility in their choice but as someone that has once hit a glass ceiling, I'll pass and bet on winners.

<comment><USER10> If you want an idea of just how many doors your MBA will open, just look at the size of their career center. I'd it's staffed by a part time college intern, your MBA won't open the front door to your front even if you hand it the keys. I'd they're pretty big and matched up with a whole bunch of alumni, they are future donors after all, then that network everyone talks about building in school is something you can maybe tap into.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Before radically changing your career can you remember why you got into software development in the first place? Was it something beyond mere utility? Many of us got into software because we were fascinated with how computers work and wanted to divine the depths of that mystery. Perhaps you can rediscover that and find more lasting fulfillment. This might lead you to a place you hadn't considered. For instance perhaps a specialization of software engineering like data engineering, crypto, quantum computing etc all might reignite that excitement for you. Good luck!

</comment><comment><USER12> Check out Western Governors University.

[https://www.wgu.edu/](https://www.wgu.edu/)

It is surprisingly affordable, and you can get as much out of it as effort you put in. It is also a fully-accredited institution.

<comment><USER13> WGU graduate here, I received my Bachelor of Science in Information Technology last year, averaging 24 credits per term. WGU has been good for the credential and for seriously strengthening my ability to self-learn, but it hasn't been terribly good for my career. Networking is seriously important and the industry, and it is nearly impossible to do within WGU.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> a fresh business degree at 35-37 yo is a complete waste of time. a business degree already has minimal value at 21 yo.

find what you'd like to do, and start doing it. someone somewhere is going to let you in as an apprentice or intern or similar. connections really help here — friends or folks from activities you do — but imho you just need to get started. anything will do, it's just the first step on the road. so don't be picky.

ok even if you disagree with that, no a fresh business degree is not a multiplier for CS experience.

<comment><USER15> A degree is a hard requirement on many, many jobs. Your resume will never be seen by human eyes without it. What do you recommend people with bills and families do, to address this reality?

<comment><USER16> Find jobs where the degree is _not_ a hard requirement. However many may require one, I've never had trouble finding employment without one.

If you're targeting a _specific employer_ known to have that policy, then yeah, you're SOL, but there's huge demand for smart, capable people out there. I know a lot of guys who got spurned during an interview process when someone found out they didn't have a degree, and they wear that as a chip on their shoulder, using it to justify spending tens of thousands of dollars along with 2+ years of evenings on night school, when they could just say "Well, bummer, guess it's not going to work out" and move on.

For some people getting a degree is the right choice and opens the right doors. Just make sure that you're one of those people before a few frustrating experiences are allowed to dictate the next 5 years of your life.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Given you taught yourself programming, you'll probably find you can teach yourself your next skill too. Three common next careers for once-software developers are recruitment (kill me now), engineering management (makes sense) and developer relations (fascinating if you have a knack for storytelling). In my MBA I'm sue I _did_ learn things that I otherwise would not have eventually taught myself. But not because they could not be self-taught. Just because I wouldn't have thought to have included them in my never-ending program of self-education.

</comment><comment><USER18> How about you try to transition to being a product manager? Lot's of MBAs become product managers, but I know at least at my company, SWEs have switched over to becoming PMs. What they do is pretty different depending on what company you're working for or where you are in the company, but it definitely keeps you tied in to the core metrics of the organization and frequently working with upper management. They often earn more than engineers too.

<comment><USER19> I have to second this suggestion. School is great and if you want to go back to school then I don't want to stop you. However, if it's a means to an end, then when you are in your thirties with a kid I'm not sure it's going to pay back. "I'm a programmer that wants to be a PM/PGM" is a great way to get into business without having to pay upfront. Certain kinds of dev management will get you there too. If you don't mind doing dev for a couple more years, you can try moving to a big company and climb the "greasy ladder" for a while -- Get a lead dev position, move into a dev manager position and then start working your way up to executive level. To be honest, experience is going to pay _much_ better than education in these kinds of scenarios anyway.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> > I got one kid to take care of.

> it costs about 30k. I can't afford that

It sounds like income and savings are your limiting factors. A few years back I was in similar position, except I was trying to get into software.

Some lessons I learned:

\- getting a degree in business didn't really prepare me for anything targeted enough that it opened any real job opportunities for me

\- a big reason I went into software is because I liked coding on the side, there was evidence I could get a job as a self taught developer, demand for seemingly capable devs was high, and starting pay was pretty good

\- finding opportunities that paid enough for me to consider, and where I could make it through the interview process, was extremely difficult, and honestly pretty disheartening

\- it took me two years of full time studying to get my first coding gig, a 1 year contract, and I had to be willing to move 4000km at my own expense to get it

What I encourage you to do is some research on careers that pay well enough starting out that you can make a switch AND you can teach yourself. If you really want to go back to school, I highly encourage you to pick program/degree that prepares you for something that is predictably needed: accounting, welding, paralegal, something like that. And when you graduate, be prepared to take a shit job that no one else wants to get the experience you need, as you may not have any better options.

Also, remember that getting out of software means your skills start to rot, which means if you decide to go back to coding, plan on that being harder than you expect it to be.

</comment><comment><USER20> Since you already know how to build software, why not learn how to break them?

Go into infosec and make bank. Less tedious than coding and better pay in my experience.

<comment><USER21> How is infosec less tedious?

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Have you considered something more manual? Warehouse or driving is an easy option that let's you earn a little cash, while clearing your head.

<comment><USER23> +1 this. For me, even playing with LEGO bricks with my kid helps me to `reset` from programming.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> > It can be everywhere in the world

German universities offer Batchelors and Masters programs almost for free - literally just a few hundred Euros per semester.

The language barrier obviously might be an issue. I know it's certainly possible (common, even) to take Masters programs offered completely in English, so I would assume English language Batchelors programs are also available, though might be harder to find.

<comment><USER25> The language barrier is becoming less and less of an issue (for English speakers).

> Universities in the United States should watch out. It won't be long before > Americans realize that top European schools offer a fast-growing number of > bachelor's and master's degrees, taught entirely in English, for a fraction > of the price of many American schools, even if you add on overseas airfare. > (In 2009, there were about 55 English B.A.'s offered in Continental Europe; > by 2017, there were 2,900.) - > [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/10/opinion/sunday/europeans-...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/10/opinion/sunday/europeans- > speak-english.html)

[https://www.studyportals.com/wp- content/uploads/2017/09/EAIE...](https://www.studyportals.com/wp- content/uploads/2017/09/EAIE-StudyPortals-English-taught-bachelor-programmes- Europe.pdf)

<comment><USER26> That's encouraging, could there ever be enough pressure to lower prices here?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Maybe you should just change the type of the software you build. If you are writing business software I completely understand you. At some point I was also considering to keep programming as a hobby and to start a new career in some other field. However, in the end I realized that I will throw away a good salary and already organized life without even having a clear alternative path. Software development is always a fun if you have a good team that loves software and management that understands the importance of software. So, my suggestion is to find a different industry for which you will write software and to find a company that takes the software development seriously. Whatever path you take, good luck :)

</comment><comment><USER2> Sometimes people do get way too deep in something that in the abstract sounds like a good new direction for their life, but it really isn't, and then they're stuck. I remember in another forum I read years ago, an IT guy who decided to become a nurse. He had a very difficult time finding employment, and ended up working in a prison, which was extremely difficult and demoralizing.

The question is, what do you really want? I realized, after a long time, that what I really want and am willing to sacrifice other things for, is to work directly with the person that ultimately gets value from my work product. Which is not how things work for developers and programmers in most places.

</comment><comment><USER28> Thomas Edison State University has a degree in General Management that you can complete for less than 10K entirely online. You can check out a sample plan on Degree Forum: [https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-Cheapest-General- Man...](https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-Cheapest-General-Management- Degree-Plan-TESU-Needs-Checking-Verifying). Also look at Degree Forum Wiki [https://degreeforum.miraheze.org/wiki/Degree_Forum_Wiki](https://degreeforum.miraheze.org/wiki/Degree_Forum_Wiki).

</comment><comment><USER29> My main advice is to try to focus on a role or category of role and speak to actual people with that job and who hire for that job. What you are after are practical suggestions about getting from where you are to where you want to be. It's possible - but also not extremely likely - that an additional degree is worth the effort and expense. But don't sell your current knowledge and experience short - and for goodness sake do not throw it away. Leverage it and be the programmer who now does 'x', bringing all of what made you a great programmer to the table.

</comment><comment><USER30> California Virtual Campus allows you to search for online classes and other info for all California colleges.

[https://cvc.edu/](https://cvc.edu/)

ASSIST helps you figure out what classes transfer within the California system.

[https://assist.org/](https://assist.org/)

It's possible to test out of some classes. CLEP is not the only means to do so, but is on the big names in this space.

[https://clep.collegeboard.org/exams](https://clep.collegeboard.org/exams)

</comment><comment><USER31> I'm late to the party, but I'd have thought there were lots of related fields which your resume would work for without the degree that might not involve the bits you don't like about programming (e.g. product management, dev team management, marketing and as others have suggested tech recruitment)

</comment><comment><USER15> OnlineU does a good job of tracking affordable college degrees. You'll have to go check on degrees that are offered yourself. Georgia, Kansas and New Mexico have accredited state colleges with pretty low tuition.

[https://www.onlineu.org/most-affordable- colleges](https://www.onlineu.org/most-affordable-colleges)

Make sure the college is regionally accredited and non-profit. Good luck!

</comment><comment><USER32> Open University is £9K a year, though I'm not sure what changes if you're not British. They've been doing distance learning for decades.

</comment><comment><USER33> You mentioned you were looking to start your own business. You don't need a degree in business (or permission) to pursue this. You will learn a lot more by doing a side hustle and succeeding/failing with that than learning from case studies in a classroom.

Since you already know how to build things, you're already well-positioned for this. All you need to know now is to learn how to sell. Good luck!

</comment><comment><USER34> A few questions that might help people answer better:

1\. Where do you currently live?

2\. What country/countries do you have citizenship for?

3\. Do you have the equivalent of (what we would call in the US/Canada) a high school diploma?

4\. Do you have any sort of degree or academic certificate already? If so, in what?

5\. What is your interest in business specifically? Are you interested in startups, or getting into management at a large corporation?

<comment> throwaway-32 I got a 3rd world citizenship, it's useless and have high-school diploma.

I'm interested in business because I want to build my own business with all the learnings from the study, and can also fallback to a management in corp. if things don't work out.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> > wouldn't mind working hard to start something new from scratch.

Look for Problems to Solve. Problems are Goldmines. >[https://www.diamandis.com/blog/problems-are- goldmines](https://www.diamandis.com/blog/problems-are-goldmines)

</comment><comment> w-ll There are tons of blue collar jobs that pay very well. You can also get a technical degree in less time than a MBA.

Look into aircraft mechanics, tons of jobs needed for power company's ranging from engineering to to service technicians. Even in the right markets plumbing and electrical engineers making a killing.

<comment><USER36> I have more and more friends going into these fields, and they seem great for someone who wants a long term stable uncomplicated career. But—and not as an attempt to open an argument—I find that my own diminishing lack of desire to build software increases as it feels more like an assembly line and less like the OP describes. I don't characterize all blue collar jobs this way, but particularly aircraft parts assembly and some aspects of mechanics, though I'd imagine mechanics would really help get back to a place of solving problems. Be curious what you think of that.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> One career path I've always wanted to do is sales engineer. It's very much in demand. They have to hire people who have very high technical skills, but don't often want to do sales. You probably don't need an extra degree for it; the sales is the easy part to train.

</comment><comment><USER38> Go get a PMP or Prince2 and become a project manager in any software company. Problem solved.

</comment><comment><USER39> How do you feel about a customer facing tech role? Something like Customer Success or a Solutions Architect in a B2B SaaS company. You're close to code, might write some,but it's a relatively minor component of your day to day.

<comment><USER40> I think this is a great idea. I would also offer in addition something like Technical Trainer or Developer Advocate, although with a youngster the travel could be seen as problematic. With a Technical Writer position you could do some code, work from home and write. All while leveraging existing skills which I think is important to do.

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> It's very difficult to find anything similar to programming compensation-wise or job availability. Probably the closest one is to become a nurse, counselor, therapist that type of thing. But that would take years of training and $$$ as well.

<comment> throwaway-32 In that case, a study that can be multiplier to my programming experience can be a good option. For example, business management ?

<comment><USER42> I'm not sure there's a lot of multiplier on top of software engineering which isn't a more specialized version of it like network or ML.

The only one I can think of is an entrepreneurial business degree and then you starting your own software business.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> This is kind of a vague question.

Do you want to leave programming and would not consider anything technical and related? E.g. Cyber security, applied mathematics, etc?

</comment><comment><USER44> You could always try openuniversity.edu

</comment><comment><USER45> Look at scholarships available to non traditional scholarships. Never pay sticker price on education

</comment><comment><USER46> why you already hold the success key and want to drop it? Quit programming? Are you serious? Do u even know how many people in this world want to squish into the programming world everyday?

</comment><comment><USER47> build stuff. the current education system is overrated, especially 'business'

</comment><comment><USER48> Wgu.edu

</comment><comment><USER49> WGU?</comment>


When the Going Gets Tough… - <AUTHOR> http://www.databasepublish.com/blog/when-the-going-gets-tough Interesting perspective on how individuals (and organizations) can endure economic uncertainty and other adversity by focusing on discipline, constant attention to technique, process and efficiency. <comment><AUTHOR> Interesting perspective on how individuals (and organizations) can endure economic uncertainty and other adversity by focusing on discipline, constant attention to technique, process and efficiency.</comment>


How to turn any Google form into a chatbot - <AUTHOR> https://chatbotsmagazine.com/turn-every-google-form-into-a-chatbot-29887667cc07 <comment><USER2> Great idea, that's for sure! Is the creator on here? The input field text for the Google form link is not visible on Firefox. .link-to-google-forms (main.css line 56) padding and .form-control (forms.less line 118) height collidate. Remove that hardcoded height and everything works fine in FF. Make sure to check in other browsers afterwards etc. of course.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you very much for your help! We will fix those issues as soon as we can.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> This is a neat idea. Anything that makes a chabot less of a pita deserves a thumbs up. Will give it a try and give some feedback.

</comment><comment><USER4> Wow, it was really easy. I like the way of editing - no signups, just link with id. Perfect!

<comment><AUTHOR> Glad you liked it! do you have any ideas to make it even better?

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Thank's for sharing my article.</comment>


Fewer Calories (Carbs, Protein or Fat) Are Called Weight-Loss Key - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/26/health/nutrition/26diet.html?ref=us <comment><USER2> This old lie again? This study just shows that four attempted diets, none of them particularly sophisticated, all work equally well - which is to say, not very.

Yes, the laws of thermodynamics hold, but what if, oh, say, _what_ you ate had an influence on _how much_ you felt impelled to eat? Or how energetic you felt and how much you moved around? If your fat cells are rapidly absorbing what's in your bloodstream, you'll feel hungry and eat more, and you'll feel tired and move less.

The number one experimental result of dieting is that 95% of the people gain back the weight a few years later.

If Seth Roberts is right, all we're seeing from this study is a temporary bump that results from changing your food habits in _any_ direction, which leaves behind the old flavor-calorie association, which makes you less hungry. And if they stick to this diet a while, they'll develop new flavor-calorie associations and gain back the weight. (This is a very elegant theory which, among other experimental support, explains a lot of the chaos in dietary science; almost any dietary change makes you lose weight, but only temporarily.)

Sorry, metabolisms are just more complicated than this. Call me back when they test Loren Cordain's or Seth Roberts's theories.

<comment><USER3> Applying the 80/20 rule, metabolisms most certainly are not more complex than than a simple input/output equation for a vast majority of people.

We have been around in this planet for thousands of years, a vast majority of which spent by a vast majority of people in a non-obese way. Evolution has tuned our bodies not to be overweight so long as we don't change the equation of calories in to calories expended.

Our modern North American lifestyles have adjusted both sides of the equation, hence, obesity is an epidemic. Adjusting the equation back is a huge step forward, regardless of outliers.

Look at the military. Diets aside, the simple reason there are no large obesity issues within the organization is that they purposefully modify the output side of the equation. Diets don't work because the modification to the input side is always only a temporary change.

We eat too much and move too little. Duh. While the dynamics become more complex at the elite athlete level, and there is a segment of the population that could be considered outliers, if we all simply made the equation balance, we'd see a huge drop in obesity rates.

It isn't rocket science.

<comment><USER4> It still complicated, though. For example, eat 1500 calories a day while your metabolism uses 1800 or so. Sounds foolproof? What if those 1500 calories are all sugar? There goes your metabolic rate and your body fat will go through the roof. What if you eat 60% protein, 30% fiber, 10% fat? You will probably wind up looking like a career athelete, even if you never exercise. The composition of the calories has a huge effect on their usage (through the mechanism of you hormone feedback systems). It may not be rocket science, but the body is complex to the point of being a black box for most people.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> As someone who lost 70 LBS 3 years ago without a 'diet' and kept it off, this article strikes me as overly obvious. Anyone who has ever actually seriously lost weight and kept it off knows that everything comes to the bottom line: calories consumed vs. calories expended.

Formula for HN: ((calories consumed - calories expended) / 3500) = weight change in LBS of fat. There are healthy ways to lose and gain weight and there are unhealthy ways, but they all come down to that very, very simple formula.

<comment> a-priori Simple, yes, but too simple. That formula ignores the fact that (all things being equal) as your weight drops, your basal metabolic rate drops as well. This means that with each pound you lose, it becomes harder to lose the next.

This is why exercise is critical for losing weight. Exercise counteracts this effect by raising the metabolic rate.

<comment><USER5> That's the thing: It doesn't ignore anything. If your basal metabolic rate drops, that means you are expending less calories through those means. The bottom line remains the same. You'll either need to consume less calories as a reaction, or up your calorie expenditure through increased exercise or through metabolism 'tricks' such as consuming increased (but safe) levels of water.

<comment> a-priori Let me illustrate what I meant with an example. Based on your formula, if I wanted to lose 10 pounds over 10 weeks, needing a deficit of 514 kcal/day, and my basal metabolism rate were 1800 kcal/day (roughly what mine is), ignoring exercise I would need to maintain a diet of no more than 1284 kcal/day.

How I interpreted your first comment was that you were arguing this would work for the entire 10 week period. My point was that it would not, that over time the rate of weight loss would slow as your basal metabolism rate drops. Given a constant diet, at some point an equilibrium will be reached.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Do people really need to be told this? Calories == Energy. If you kept putting more gas in your car then it uses its gonna spill out all over. If it could store the overflow, like the body does, your just gonna have more lying around.

Despite what the diet book cartel wants people to believe, energy production and usage by the human body is not all that mysterious.

<comment><USER7> I'm right there with you. All you need to know about losing weight is this:

Don't eat so much.

Problem is people won't believe you and it is unmarketable. So, companies go out and produce candy bars, market them as diet food by slapping a label on them that says, "eat this and not much other stuff and you'll lose weight."

Cracks me up.

<comment><USER8> No that isn't "all you need to know"

Have you read: <http://www.sethroberts.net/about/whatmakesfoodfattening.pdf>

What about satiety of the food you eat? Eating fewer calories is easy if it's filling, less so if it isn't.

<comment><USER7> I never said it was easy. It took me two years to figure out _how_ to eat less when my metabolism magically changed. There is nothing in any book could have helped me with that. Each day was an experiment. Still is, but the bottom line is I don't eat as much as I did before and the things I do eat just happen to be classified as "healthy." It's a big PITA.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> While I agree with the overall premise (it's very "duh"), there are some things worthy of more exploration:

The people in this study really didn't lose all that much weight. Do certain diets promote faster weight loss?

Also, I find it ridiculously hard to believe that a study that uses obese people, who have trouble controlling their weight in the first place, can maintain a strict caloric deficit for two years.

Additionally: It doesn't really say much about body fat % - does eating certain ratios promote muscle growth, yet fat loss? (this is a premise in the high protein diets)

<comment><USER10> _"does eating certain ratios promote muscle growth, yet fat loss? (this is a premise in the high protein diets)"_

I think the key thing in extreme dieting is to ensure no loss of muscle. An obese person is going to have to take drastic measures to lose weight, and are highly susceptible to malnutrition (many times they're already malnourished due to poor diet to begin with) and cutting the amount of food you eat in half can be dangerous.

The key problem with anorexia isn't that they have such low body fat (it's a problem, but it's unlikely to kill you) it's that they don't intake enough protein. Once there's a shortage, your body starts using muscle inside your body, and unfortunately there's a extremely highly protein dense half-pound of muscle we all know as a heart.

What the Atkin's diet is great for is that if you drastically need to lose weight you can do it without causing serious and irreparable muscle damage and potentially heart damage.

If you're wanting a long-term (as in 1 month or longer) change in diet then protein is key for exactly what you said. Most obese people are at high risk of things like hernias as most never built up the muscle in the abdominal wall and are literally a ticking time bomb.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> While I'd have to agree the results seem "only logical" or "obvious," the media hype and the public hope for an easy silver bullet mean that these types of results really deserved to be trumpeted aloud to the general public.

To me the bottom line for science is "The real question for researchers, Dr. Sacks said, is what are the biological, psychological or social factors that influence whether a person can stick to any diet."

The next steps seem to involved _behavioral_ sciences, not biological sciences.

</comment><comment><USER12> Flagged as so-obvious-its-dumb</comment>


Suggest HN: earn karma for each flag after your own? - <AUTHOR>

There's lots of garbage on the /newest page with no incentive to police it. A new post requires something like 5 flags within an hour to be flagged into non-existence.
Since flagging away bad content is as important for overall quality as upvoting good content, I think flaggers should receive a karma point for each time the post is flagged after they've done it.
While I'm here, maybe a few more people can chip in on the new page, being more liberal with upvotes than you would be on the homepage, and flagging some of the junk. Rad. <comment><USER2> This may lead to a herd mentality and few users will flag every post they can find to earn karma. The bad content does not get up votes and automatically goes down hill.

</comment><comment><USER3> People already flag spam on the new page and I don't think we need another incentive to flag it.

If this change was brought in, it would need to be paired with some disincentive to discourage gratuitous flagging.

</comment><comment><USER4> Brilliant suggestion. If HN needs anything it's more ruthless culling.

</comment><comment><USER5> That would not be discoverable.

</comment><comment><USER6> I'm flagging this post.</comment>