The Constitution Applies When the Government Bans Americans From the Skies - <AUTHOR> http://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security-racial-justice/constitution-applies-when-government-bans-americans-skies <comment><USER2> _Our brief highlighted the utter irrationality of the government 's No Fly List procedures. The plaintiffs in Latif all flew for years without any problems. But more than two years ago, they were suddenly branded as suspected terrorists based on secret evidence, publicly denied boarding on flights, and told by U.S. and airline officials that they were banned from flying¾perhaps forever._

One of the reasons that I'm not too attached to the specific details of the Snowden story (aside from supporting him, of course) is that it's just a piece of a much larger picture. Snowden's "NSA direct server access" is but a tiny speck in an ocean of civil liberties problems.

In this case, the government is effectively using a quasi-military/police force to control who can travel the country. (Yes, I know you can drive, but for business travelers, air travel is many times the lifeblood of their work) People are banned from traveling, in many cases from performing their livelihoods. They do not know how they got on the list. They cannot get off the list.

In charge of all of this is an agency, best I can tell, that has a mission of making all _transportation_ safe from random terror attacks.

It's insane. Aside from not protecting anybody, can you begin to imagine the ways such a system could be abused? It staggers the mind.

There are probably around 100 people in the entire country that shouldn't fly. But the way this no-fly list is constructed, it will continue to increase year-by-year, without any incentive to pare the numbers back. Is anybody doing the math on the kind of economic impact such a system will have over a few decades?

I've said it before. We need to completely disband the TSA. Structural adjustments are not going to fix its scope creep, conflict of interest with the military industrial complex, and lack of competence. It's just gotta go.

<comment><USER3> I've always thought of no-fly lists as completely out of place in a democracy. Either you have enough evidence to charge them with something or you have no business restricting them from doing anything.

<comment><USER4> I'm not sure this principle works in reality. It seems to entail that somebody who fails their driving exam must still be allowed to drive and that somebody with no training should be able to advertise himself as a surgeon.

(Just in case anybody didn't follow the above: Failing an exam or lacking training are not crimes you can be charged with, so under the principle "Either you have enough evidence to charge them with something or you have no business restricting them from doing anything," we have no business restricting anyone from doing anything on those bases.)

<comment><USER5> > It seems to entail that somebody who fails their driving exam must still be > allowed to drive and that somebody with no training should be able to > advertise himself as a surgeon.

Yes, it absolutely does. Life as a free person is dangerous, and being free necessarily means not being protected from potential harm caused by others. It means people are held responsible after the fact, but not restrained prior.

<comment><USER4> If that's what you think, you are welcome to your opinion, but I don't believe you'll find a lot of popular support for the idea that unlicensed drivers and fake surgeons are things we should embrace.

<comment><USER6> I don't see freedom requiring to embrace such things. Freedom doesn't mean you can do anything you feel like doing, that's anarchy. Freedom means you can do whatever you like that does not infringe upon the rights of the person next to you. You can't make other people slaves to your freedom.

The difference I would say about your examples is that the actions of those people will potentially infringe directly upon the rights of others so there is probable cause for prior restraint. But even in those cases you can point out that the person wishes to perform a singular direct action without adequate training on another person that will most likely result in the harming of that person. You are at least accusing that person of wanting to do something that will likely be bad, with evidence to back it up, since performing surgery without training is a bad idea. I'm sure you can find examples of why it's a bad idea.

I would see that as quite different than preventing a person from boarding an aircraft with absolutely no evidence or, in some cases, even an accusation of any wrongdoing.

<comment><USER4> Why does a person on a public road infringe on rights but not a person on a plane in public airspace? In both cases, the idea seems to be "You can't use this public conduit if we believe you'd be an unreasonable danger to the other people around." Neither requires a trial.

<comment><USER6> Because they are two very different things.

When driving a car you are the operator and need to show you can do so safely without harming others on the public road. You are not required to have a license to be a passenger in a car on a public road.

When flying in an aircraft you are a passenger and therefore no license is required. But be assured that guy up front flying the airplane has his pilot's license that shows they are capable of doing so safely.

When you are restricted from driving on a public road due to lack of a license that is society actively accusing you of being a danger to everyone else. The issue you are trying to compare this to are people being on a no-fly list that don't know why they are on this list and no one will tell them.

That's the main difference, the accusation. If the police were confiscating driver's licenses from people and forcing them to walk instead of driving without explanation, then that would be the same thing.

Now, if you have a history of attempting to bring down airplanes while in flight while you were on board, then they could rightfully restrict you from entering any other planes. At least in that case there's the accusation.

But I don't understand your thought of being restricted without trial as a strange concept. It's done all the time. Try to enter a restricted government building or a military base without permission and see how far you get. Even better, enter a stranger's house and see what happens. There are numerous restrictions in a free society that in essence helps maintain that freedom. Assuming that these restrictions are placed equally on everyone then that person next to you is restricted from doing things to you that you won't like just as much as you are restricted from doing them to him.

Of course, these restrictions can get oppressive and abusive if allowed to get out of hand.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> As a person coming from a former Soviet republic - it reminds me of times 30 years ago, where the usual conversation with any official would look like this :

"no"

"why?"

"because the government says so"

No trial, no hearing, someone somewhere in secret made the decision and you had nothing to say in that matter. Or if you tried, you would be charged with interfering with government business, or "national security" and jailed for a random amount of time.

Really that different to what the US government is doing right now?

<comment><USER8> Obviously it's not different in principle, but in practice there are comparatively few people on the no-fly list, and the no-fly list is a comparatively unique mechanism. US citizens aren't typically prohibited from travelling, or corresponding with internationals, or publishing journals and notes, etc...

Yes, this is bad. Yes it should be fixed. But let's check the "ZOMG WE'RE IN A COMMIE GULAG!" hyperbole at the door. The less seriously we take this the more reason the government has to pick the "sane compromise" position which involves no-fly lists and universal-but-mostly-invisible surveillance.

<comment><USER9> The problem is such hyperbole is the only thing standing in the way of a system going that far. There are a great many normalized restrictions now which were ridiculed as commie gulag fodder not long ago, restrictions which not long ago would have been met with rebellion.

Billions of people have lived in "commie gulags". Most of them could still live their lives, and normalized any limitations they lived under. Stay within those "reasonable" restrictions, and you'd be OK; suggest breaking down those restrictions, and you'd be subject to the wrath of other citizens ridiculing your "hyperbole".

The "sane compromise" is standing by core principles. We learned to institute such principles as foundational law precisely because "sane compromises" and "mitigating circumstances" went very, very bad; if we deviate from them again, we will again learn - the very hard way - why those principles were enshrined in the first place. If the government decides you should be prohibited from doing X, a warrant must be approved by a judge, the restriction presented you in no uncertain terms, your accusers available for questioning, a court available for redress of grievances, and means for acquittal possible involving a jury of fellow citizens - not some secret list you can't even see to confirm whether your name is in fact on it.

<comment><USER8> I don't understand how inaccurately comparing living with a no-fly list to life in the USSR has anything to do with "standing by core principles". If anything it rather sounds like the opposite.

Stand by your principles. Don't spin the argument.

<comment><USER9> Core principles: evidence against me must be obtained under warrant, presented in court with my notification, subject to challenge, evaluated by a jury of common citizens, and the verdict subject to appeal. This is absolute front- and-center core principles of our government.

A secret list limiting travel by common means, with no more visibility than a bureaucrat's perfunctory "you're on the no-fly list, go away", with no way to confirm or challenge it, is absolutely a hallmark of life in the USSR.

It's not spinning the argument. It's the point of the argument.

<comment><USER10> _A secret list limiting travel by common means, with no more visibility than a bureaucrat 's perfunctory "you're on the no-fly list, go away", with no way to confirm or challenge it_

Completely untrue, the ACLU has gotten several people off the no fly list, used FOIA requests to gain access to it, etc.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> This is so un-American I can hardly believe that anyone in the USA would do it. Where's the due process? Where's the confrontation of the accuser? Where's the ability to redress a wrong?

This is so wrong on so many levels of Americanism. It's just Soviet, that's what it is.

<comment><USER12> The word un-American does not apply to a nation of cowards.

<comment><USER13> But... but... their gunna take are guns!!!

No. They won't. That's because not a single shot will be fired in retaliation to government intrusion and control. Not a single thing will be done about it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> The US is a lost cause for anyone on the bad side of the government for any particular reason, crimes committed or not.

What really gets me though is that people are truly shocked that the piece of paper held up as some illusion of rights is, like everything else, simply not worth the paper it is printed on.

This is a document that has been used to justify slavery, prohibition, woman as property, Jim Crow laws, the "sanctity" of marriage etc. If history shows us anything it is that regardless of whatever is written down, the laws of the land will be made by the popular opinion of those that have power, and how they interpret things. The USA is no different than Rome, feudal Europe or France under Napoleon, despite the best intentions of its founders.

<comment><USER15> What annoys me most is that while Brazilians and Turkish people are willing to start revolutions over seemingly unimportant things, Americans aren't willing to even protest (in the streets, like real protests are done) these things which seem much worse.

<comment><USER5> I'm curious what purpose you see for protests in a representative democracy? It is not intended that our government make law to suit small groups of very vocal people, but rather that the will of the people be expressed, through equal representation, by elected members of government.

Obviously our system does not quite work as intended, but I'm not sure I see how protesting in the street could be effective, or if it was effective how that could be a feature rather than a bug?

<comment><USER16> Protests serve the same purpose as newspapers, blogs, Facebook pages, Twitter feeds, phone calls, letters, etc: they're for communication.

You might not be able to afford that billboard on the street corner, but you can afford to stand there with signs and still attract attention. Protesting is mass communication for time instead of communication for money.

Personal example: Nearly every time I've seen a group of picketing workers outside an office building has been the first I've heard anything of their employers' practices. Even if I might care as a customer, why would I know about it?

<comment><USER5> > Protests serve the same purpose as newspapers, blogs, Facebook pages, > Twitter feeds, phone calls, letters, etc: they're for communication.

Interesting point. In that respect, isn't the media coverage and outcry on the internet accomplishing the same thing?

> Personal example: Nearly every time I've seen a group of picketing workers > outside an office building has been the first I've heard anything of their > employers' practices. Even if I might care as a customer, why would I know > about it?

I hadn't considered this case, and you're right that it can serve a purpose locally.

Instead of an example like that, when I hear protest I tend to think first of political gathering, e.g. the Occupy protests, which appeared to be more an example of special interests trying to spur legislative action than a method of communication.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I hate to make such a prediction, but this case is factually analogous to the ACLU's case against the targeted killings of US citizens without due process and ACLU's demand the standards of the kill list be disclosed. If a citizen can have his life taken without due process, it seems consistent a citizen's Constitutional Right to travel can be taken without due process. For those that do not know:

"On August 30, 2010, the [ACLU] filed a "targeted killing" lawsuit, naming President Barack Obama, CIA Director Leon Panetta, and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates as defendants. They sought an injunction preventing the targeted killing of [a US citizen], and also sought to require the government to disclose the standards under which U.S. citizens may be "targeted for death". Judge John D. Bates dismissed the lawsuit in an 83-page ruling, holding that the claims were judicially unreviewable under the political question doctrine inasmuch as he was questioning a decision that the U.S. Constitution committed to the political branches."

Coincidentally, or likely not coincidentally Judge John D. Bates, is also the presiding Judge of the FISA Court as shown in the Rules of Procedure for the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (See: [http://www.uscourts.gov/uscourts/rules/FISC2010.pdf](http://www.uscourts.gov/uscourts/rules/FISC2010.pdf))

I do not agree, but at least the US government has an argument that by disclosing publicly known or suspected terrorists, it may jeopardize our national security interests. How the hell can that be logically extended to the idea that disclosing the criteria to get on the "kill list" or "no fly list" jeopardizes our national security interests?

</comment><comment><USER18> Just a reminder, the deadline for comments on the TSA's body scanners is Monday. [http://www.regulations.gov/#!docketDetail;D=TSA-2013-0004](http://www.regulations.gov/#!docketDetail;D=TSA-2013-0004) has the info.

</comment><comment><USER19> Soon though(thinking of PRISM), they'll be able to say you landed yourself on a No-Fly list because of a joke you cracked in an email you sent to your friend ten years ago that they only just mined now. (And a joke that their algo/analyst didn't understand)

And then they still won't let you appeal it. I wasn't aware though that No-Fly extended to boats, that makes it criminal. The only way to get off the continent then is to go to Canada or Mexico (or another SA country) and hop on a non-US associated airline. _That_ is criminal.

</comment><comment><USER20> "Back in September 2003, the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) released a piece of model legislation it called the Animal and Ecological Terrorism Act. Like so many bills drafted by the free-market think tank, AETA was handed over, ready made, to legislators with the idea that it could be introduced in statehouses across the country with minimal modification. Under the measure, it would become a felony (if damages exceed $500) to enter "an animal or research facility to take pictures by photograph, video camera, or other means," and, in a flush of Patriot Act-era overreaching, those convicted of making such recordings would also be placed on a permanent "terrorist registry."

Frustrated by unauthorized documentaries of slaughterhouse abuses, the agriculture industry hired corporate lobbyists to hire Congressmen to insert laws that would ban PETA activists from using the US air transportation system.

These have been implemented in a number of states recently, although I'm not sure if any of them included the watchlist provision in the final draft.

* [http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/06/ag-gag-laws-m...](http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/06/ag-gag-laws-mowmar-farms)

<comment><USER21> Would drones be considered a loop hole here?

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> It's interesting to sit back and realize that the libertarians were right all along. On security theater and the bailout economy.

<comment><USER23> But being right about the problems isn't automatically the same as being right about the solutions...

<comment><USER24> Being right about the problems is the first step. I would argue providing a bad solution for a problem you know exists is better than providing a good solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

<comment><USER23> And I would disagree.

Doing the wrong thing for the right reason seems in general to be worse, at least in terms of outcome, than doing the right thing for the wrong reason.

Can you give any examples of where you think this isn't the case?

<comment><USER24> My point was more along the lines of it is wasting time. If you do something bad for the right reason and then later find out it is bad then at least you know that solution was the issue and you can try a different solution next time.

If you do something right for the wrong reason then you have absolutely nothing to learn from and have made no progress at all at finding the correct solution for the problem at hand.

<comment><USER23> But you could well have done a huge amount of damage before you realise it's the wrong solution. History is full of examples of identifying a problem and putting an entirely inappropriate, and damaging, "solutions"

\- the Russian monarchy is bad, let's put a "Communist" dictatorship in place \- 1930's German farms can't support its people, let's invade Eastern Europe \- modern Britain can't afford to pay for all of the hospitals/schools it needs right now, let's pay the private sector to build them for us, keep paying for them for the next 20 years and then find out that we own none of it \- terrorists sometimes communicate on the internet, let's bug everyone's conversations

etc, etc.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> [http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_Protect](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_Protect)

At least the Canadian one allows you to protest. As a result only about a thousand people on the list.

</comment><comment><USER26> They can't even get on a boat to cross the Atlantic.

Does anybody know if other countries reference the U.S. no-fly list? Could one of these plaintiffs drive to Canada and travel abroad that way?

<comment><USER27> Canada has it's own version of the no fly list which includes data from the US no fly list.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List#No_fly_lists_in_oth...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List#No_fly_lists_in_other_countries)

<comment><USER28> I would imagine that travelling through South American countries would be a better option (ie., the only option).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> I sometimes wonder how the authoritarians that come up with these policies can look at themselves in the mirror and call themselves patriotic Americans.

<comment><USER30> They don't. They don't need to. This idea of a 'patriotic American' is propaganda. A complete and utter fabrication. It's a tool used to divide the American populace into opposing factions: those are patriotic, and those who are enemies of the stats.

It's a remarkably similar tactic to what the Nazi's used [1]. The Nazis attempted (and succeeded) in demonizing anyone who didn't agree with their ideals. That's basically what our politicians are doing: demonizing anyone who is 'not a patriot', 'against national security', 'disagrees with American Exceptionalism'.

Also, to those who will inevitably think 'Godwin's Law': thank you for derailing a legitimate comparison.

[1]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_propaganda#Themes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_propaganda#Themes)

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> Is it possible for someone on the no fly list to join the lawsuit? I know two US citizens who are on the list.

<comment><AUTHOR> don't know, but you could probably email the lawyers that wrot e this blog post and find out. contact information for various ACLU lawyers is listed in the filing [1] found on the blog post.

[1] [http://www.aclu.org/national-security/latif-et-al-v- holder-e...](http://www.aclu.org/national-security/latif-et-al-v-holder-et-al- aclu-challenges-government-no-fly-list)

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> I'm interested to see how the Tea Party deals with these issues. It could be a huge opportunity for them... As crazy as they are, if they take up the mantle of getting government out of peoples' personal lives, it could propel them into legitimacy. I'm _this_ close to deciding that this is a vote-deciding issue compared to abortion, fiscal policy, or foreign affairs. Democrats, take note.

</comment><comment><USER32> Can I coin a new political term: terrorismism. It is the enlargement of all state powers over its citizens in the name of fighting terrorists.

<comment><USER33> Interestingly, the enlargement of state powers over its citizens in the name of fighting (boogeyman of the day) is exactly what gave "the Terror", and its architects the original "Terrorists", their names.

So, "terrorismism" is just classical Terrorism.

<comment><USER32> Who were the classical terrorists?

<comment><USER33> The word "Terrorism" was coined based on the express philosophy behind the Reign of Terror in revolutionary France.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> It appears people are agreeing this (and other) actions by the government are unacceptable.

So what are Americans doing about it?

We see people in Turkey, Brazil and many other parts of the world protesting against their government, while those in the US appear to be doing nothing.

What's it going to take?

</comment><comment><USER35> This is outrageous. This is contagious. So futile.

<comment><USER36> I do love angry art. It can be just as pretty, if not sometimes prettier, than normal art.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> "There are alternatives to flying".

Try driving to Puerto Rico or Hawaii.

</comment><comment><USER38> Welcome to the United Prisons of Americal where the only thing preventing you from being forced to walk to your destination is the fact that using a car is still legal... for now.

</comment><comment><USER39> It's good to see that in the 21st century there are at least some areas of daily life that haven't been pushed into a constitution free zone through technicalities.

</comment><comment><USER40> Ever since they decided that they had the right to look at or touch my privates before I can get on a plane, I refuse to fly.

</comment><comment><USER41> The use of the word "Blacklists" for "No-Fly Lists" in the headline is confusing.

<comment><USER42> What exactly do you think a No-Fly List is? The use of the word "blacklist" is entirely appropriate.

<comment><USER41> Before the headline changed, it was asking if the NSA could "blacklist" people without telling them what.

Given the context of no-fly lists, you can see what that's about. But without that context, you are wondering just what in the world it means. Are those people not allowed to be Americans?</comment></comment></comment>


Alleged Equifax hackers demand $2.6M Bitcoin ransom - <AUTHOR> http://mashable.com/2017/09/08/equifax-hackers-bitcoin-ransom <comment><USER2> IMHO this exposes risks related to the current state-of-the-art in digital currencies. BTC, and others, are really just an experiment; new technology will replace it that will be far, far more resistant to the nefarious use- cases in effect.

<comment><USER3> I can say the same thing about the US Dollar, but we still have it.

<comment><USER2> No, the current state-of-the-art in digital currencies completely changes the ballgame, relative to fiat. There's a reason BTC is the main payment mechanism for ransomware.</comment></comment></comment>


Containers: Docker, Windows and Trends - <AUTHOR> http://azure.microsoft.com/blog/2015/08/17/containers-docker-windows-and-trends/

<comment><AUTHOR> Considering the timing of this blog post, it's probably "warmup" for the release of Windows Server 2016 Technical Preview 3 (10.0.10514) expected later this week[1].

It also seems that MSFT made the new preview available for public download just a few hours ago[2], along with a new docker client[3].

A couple of PowerShell scripts for setting up container hosts were also uploaded earlier today[4] (which was where I found the VM and docker client links. Use at your own risk :-))

[1] [http://www.winbeta.org/news/windows- server-2016-build-1051x-...](http://www.winbeta.org/news/windows- server-2016-build-1051x-coming-next-week)

[2] [http://download.microsoft.com/download/F/B/A/FBAAEE1A-3AF2-4...](http://download.microsoft.com/download/F/B/A/FBAAEE1A-3AF2-4ED7-8CD9-50FF91BA72B4/CBaseOs_th2_release_10514.0.150808-1529_amd64fre_ServerDatacenterCore_en- us.wim)

[3] [http://aka.ms/ContainerTools](http://aka.ms/ContainerTools)

[4] [https://github.com/Microsoft/Virtualization- Documentation/bl...](https://github.com/Microsoft/Virtualization- Documentation/blob/master/windows-server-container-tools/New- ContainerHost/New-ContainerHost.ps1)

</comment><comment><USER2> What actually is the point of Microsoft helping docker? They tell that """Linux containers require Linux APIs from the host kernel and Windows Server Containers require the Windows APIs of a host Windows kernel, so you cannot run Linux containers on a Windows Server host or a Windows Server Container on a Linux host."""

So why help docker? can't they just create their docker-like software for Windows Containers? What is the point of sharing the same client if what you can do with it depends on the platform you use?

EDIT: instead of just downvoting me, an explanation would be welcome

<comment><USER3> Because sharing the same client is still useful, even if they're different platforms. For example, being able to use the same application to control systems that run on Linux as well as Windows without needing to duplicate a lot of logic in a lot of places. Additionally, I can see cross-platform programs as potentially being possible through the right combination of well laid out containers, and usage of file associations/binfmt_misc in proper doses. So settling on the docker api does make sense for ms, because a balkanized server ecosystem just leads to frustration and people less interested in your platform.

</comment></comment><comment> bmir-alum-007 It's a good thing CloudVolumes (aka SnapVolumes, basically VM-side volume unioning for VDI and server app containers a-la Softricity) sold to VMware when they did about 2 years ago. The core idea of app executables and libraries as opaque, read-only containers which can be shared at the enterprise scale is a good abstraction for many reasons including security and dedupe.

</comment><comment><USER4> It sounds like:

• Docker is really cool! Everyone is talking about Docker!

• We at Microsoft like Docker, too! (But Docker obviously screws us pretty hard, since the whole ecosystem is built around the Linux kernel. Windows isn't great at this type of isolation.)

• We don't like being left out of the Docker container party, so we're going to create _two_ things that are Almost As Good As Docker Containers!

• (1) A new package format, "Windows Server Containers," that we're calling a container, even though it doesn't actually offer containment. Containers can mess with other containers.

• (2) The same old Windows Server virtual machines, but we're going to call them "Hyper-V Containers." Yeah, they're just VMs. Separate kernels in memory and all of that.

• We know neither of these offer what you wanted. But good news! You can use the same container format for _both_ of these new almost-a-container systems.

Yikes.

<comment><USER5> Your summary of #1 is uncharitable. Although we don't know the technical details of what Microsoft has actually implemented, their description of Window Server Containers applies equally well to containers on Linux.

"While the sharing of the kernel enables fast start-up and efficient packing, Windows Server Containers share the OS with the host and each other. The amount of shared data and APIs means that there may be ways, whether by design or because of an implementation flaw in the namespace isolation or resource governance, for an application to escape out of its container or deny service to the host or other containers. Local elevation of privilege vulnerabilities that operating system vendors patch is an example of a flaw that an application could leverage. Thus, Windows Server Containers are great for scenarios where the OS trusts the applications that will be hosted on it, and all the applications also trust each other."

<comment><USER6> I am not trying to be a downer, I already wait Windows containers for my work, we are planning to build a project out of it, however there is a difference: When a Docker container on a Linux host was able to escape the container, (around 0.8) it was considered a huge security vulnerability, but this text from MS is like they already accept there will be vulnerabilities because "they designed wrong" or "implemented wrong", this does not give a confidence to run untrusted containers, and that's why they implemented HyperV containers as well.

<comment><USER7> They accept that there is _less_ resource isolation in a plain container compared to a virtual machine container.

With a plain container, any OS process that you see _is_ the common host OS process - it is just projected into your container. Compromising the process is compromising the the process for all containers.

For security purposes there's a big difference between starting with access to everything and then trying to reign in processes, access, resources etc compared to starting with hardware isolation and then _allowing_ some functions (e.g. management) to cross.

Microsoft is completely correct on this: Containers are _not_ security boundaries. A security boundary would require very few access points with very specific security policies. That is not containers.

Hyper-V virtual machines, on the other hand, enjoy hardware level isolation and starts from the other end: Anything that should cross the VM boundary has to be explicitly allowed, as opposed to OS virtualization where anything is allowed until the projection disallows it.

For instance, a container could try to delay processing of callbacks from the kernel processes. It is the same process as the others containers, and a single malicious container could very well starve the others for resources.

Both have their uses. Plain containers offer higher density but less isolation, Hyper-V (or any other VM technology) containers offer lower density but higher isolation.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> What OS's will this docker.exe (3) work on? It does not run on Windows 10.

</comment><comment><USER9> Well, over a decade late to this party, but seems like they're being dragged forward.

<comment> vezzy-fnord Linux was pretty late to the party itself short of heavyweight solutions like Linux-VServer and OpenVZ which require patched kernels.

As with most everything related to virtualization, IBM did it first.

<comment><USER10> I remember using VM/CMS in school, in 1981: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VM_%28operating_system%29](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VM_%28operating_system%29)

How much is really new?

<comment><USER11> Everything new is old already.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> [https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vBD2z2...](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vBD2z2A8NsgJ:azure.microsoft.com/blog/2015/08/17/containers- docker-windows-and-trends/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk)

I'm getting an error.</comment>


Micro UAV, rugged with ducted air. I can't wait until these are childrens toys. - <AUTHOR> http://blog.wired.com/defense/2007/09/spooky-new-micr.html <comment><USER2> Wow, thats cool. So it just uses thrust vectoring to move around and hover? It would have to be pretty advanced to cope with the rotation forces of the impeller.

Seeing this fly reminds me of Armadillo Aerospace's Pixel: <http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/n.x/Armadillo/Home>

But obviously Pixel is intended to fly into space and is rocket powered..

<comment><AUTHOR> I _also_ can't wait until we have rocket powered children's toys.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Here's a toy that's close enough. A group at Waterloo made one of these things autonomous, and had it navigating GPS waypoints.

<http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/rc/79c7/>

<comment><AUTHOR> RC heli's are plagued with stability issues. I suppose what I'm looking for is the performance at a toy's price. Considering the MUAV costs probably around $60,000, this might take some time.

<comment><USER3> The product spec for this thing says it's automatically stabilizing, but I've never played with one so I can't vouch for it. I've seen some demo videos and it looked really impressive.

In any case, you can always buy one of these for a mere 90-450k <http://www.moller.com/videom200x.htm>

<comment><AUTHOR> Some can be really good.

Another big difference is live video from the heli. That means you can tele- operate it beyond line of sight if you have good enough radios. GPS waypoint following is also essential when going out of line of sight.

You can see how the platforms grow in complexity and cost just to be useful at all.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> The first version of the Terminator hunter/killer. SkyNet will be pleased.</comment>


TribeSay: Hacker News for non-hackers - <AUTHOR> http://tribesay.com/

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey all. I've been reading HN for over a year - this is my first post and also my first startup. Basically the idea is let's bring social news to the masses i.e. Reddit + Pinterest or "hacker news for non-hackers". Please tell me what you think. Cheers</comment>


Google Keep - <AUTHOR> https://keep.google.com

<comment><USER2> _Hate to be that guy_ but not much of _News_ : [http://googleblog.blogspot.com.br/2013/03/google-keepsave- wh...](http://googleblog.blogspot.com.br/2013/03/google-keepsave-whats-on- your-mind.html)

By the way, anyone knows if Google provides any API on Keep?

</comment><comment><USER3> Google Keep is not a new product. Why is this link notable?

<comment><USER4> I've never seen it before. Maybe others missed its release too.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yep, precisily

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> So how long until this gets forgotten about and then taken offline, like Google Base, Google Notebook, Google Sidewiki, Google Wave, and whatever other note-taking stuff I've missed?

<comment><USER6> That's a fair criticism. It sucks when Google kills a product you've invested a lot of time and effort in, but Google Takeout should a least make the data recoverable after the fact.

I don't see this product specifically listed in their Takeout offerings[1], but I think it is included in Google Drive.

Edit: On the bright side, they have been making incremental improvements in the year or so since it was launched. The Android app has received several updates for better design and new features, including reminders based on location or time and the ability to make checklists.

[1] [https://www.google.com/settings/takeout](https://www.google.com/settings/takeout)

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Why do people up vote old news?

I'm not trying to be a negative nancy but Google released this product a year ago with barely any updates after they failed to buy Evernote.

<comment><USER8> In my case, because its been around for a year, yet I just discovered its existence from this post. Not that this says much for the product.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> It's been around for a while, but I find it very handy. It does a good job as a simple Android note-taking application and the integration with Google Services makes it accessible anywhere without managing yet another account.

Definitely no competition for the likes of Evernote, but I don't need anything that complicated. Just something to set reminders, keep lists, take notes, etc.

</comment><comment><USER9> Would be more fun if it allow parallel edits by multiple people ...also link with Google maps to help setup say a menu item for a restaurant i wish to visit for lunch?</comment>


Facebook, Microsoft Disclose Government Data Requests, But Google Balks - <AUTHOR> http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2013/06/14/facebook-got-fewer-than-10000-gov-data-requests-in-2nd-half-of-2012/

<comment><USER2> This is a poor headline that does not accurately reflect the situation. Microsoft and Facebook made deals with the government to include NSLs and FISA warrants in their total disclosure numbers as long as they kept them grouped together, but Google had already made a deal in the past to disclose NSLs separately from regular law enforcement warrant numbers and accepting the new deal would've forced them to lump the NSLs in with the rest, reducing the usefulness of the overall numbers. Instead they seem to be pushing to be allowed to disclose regular warrants, FISA warrants and NSLs all separately. This is a good thing.

<comment><AUTHOR> I believe that data covered only NSLs and explicitly didn't cover FISA requests. In fact, Google's spokes person makes this clear in the article:

" a Google spokesman said the company has 'always believed that it's important to differentiate between different types of government requests,' referring to requests for data in criminal cases, and data requests stemming from national security-related, classified orders.

'Lumping the two categories together would be a step back for users,' the Google spokesman added in the statement. 'Our request to the government is clear: to be able to publish aggregate numbers of national security requests, including FISA disclosures, separately.'"

<comment><USER2> Facebook (and I presume Microsoft) are including regular warrants, FISA warrants, and NSLs.

[https://newsroom.fb.com/News/636/Facebook-Releases-Data- Incl...](https://newsroom.fb.com/News/636/Facebook-Releases-Data-Including- All-National-Security-Requests)

Google is, and has been for some time, including regular warrants and NSLs but not FISA warrants. They could have gone along with the same agreement Facebook and Microsoft made, but that would've required them to group the NSLs and FISA warrants in with the regular warrants. Instead they kept doing what they currently do, which is to show NSLs separately but not include the still forbidden FISA warrants.

[https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/U...](https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/US/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Despite Microsoft and Facebook being allowed to release data, Google is refusing. Google claims "Lumping the two categories together would be a step back for users," the Google spokesman added in the statement. "Our request to the government is clear: to be able to publish aggregate numbers of national security requests, including FISA disclosures, separately"

This strikes me as bullshit. One, more data seems always to be better. Two, google already releases some data on non NSL/FISA requests[0]. We'd have some idea which is which and not just lump it all together.

Microsofts numbers were odd too: they only gave requests, not effected accounts (a marked contrast to the rather complete info Facebook gave out). Why the discrepancy ? Did Facebook not get many request, so they were allowed to release everything? Did Microsoft batch requests and so those mere 7k requests did give out huge amount? Did Google actually make them file individual requests -- which would be inline with their denial earlier this week?

It seems the DOJ/NSA is only letting people release (accurate) statistics that might understat the problem.

[0][http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/?m...](http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/?metric=targets)

<comment><USER3> No, what's happening here is that Google is continuing to push the USG to be able to publish fine-grained data, while Facebook is publishing less informative aggregates.

In other words, Google is going to bat for its users, and being punished for it because of the optics that sets up. How does it feel to be a tool of the NSA? :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thats noble if somehow publishing non-fine-grained information precludes or hurts their chances of publishing fine grained information later. I can't think of a reasonable argument that thats the case.

As for being a tool of the NSA,I feel grossly underpaid.

<comment><USER3> Publishing the aggregates allows the USG to claim that Google has already been authorized to disclose the important information. How much do you think it costs Google to fight this fight with the USG? How much do you think a lawyer who can participate in a team effort to make this kind of case bills an hour?

Why aren't you cheering for them, instead of trying to tear them down?</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Justice Dept. charges Chinese nationals in 'extensive' global hacking campaign - <AUTHOR> https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/20/doj-china-national-security-law-enforcement-action.html <comment><AUTHOR> Same story from the Washington Post: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us- an...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-and-more- than-a-dozen-allies-to-condemn-china-for-economic- espionage/2018/12/20/cdfd0338-0455-11e9-b5df-5d3874f1ac36_story.html?noredirect=on)</comment>


The 2018 Top Programming Languages - <AUTHOR> https://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/innovation/the-2018-top-programming-languages <comment><USER2> I always thought that in big data era SQL is one of the most important languages out there. Though I like seeing python on the top.</comment>


Left-handed DNA found – and it changes brain structure - <AUTHOR> https://www.bbc.com/news/health-49579810 <comment><USER2> "Left-handed" here means associated with left-handed people, not left-handed Z-DNA ( [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-DNA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-DNA) ) as I first thought.

I was confused as the latter - the left-handed Z-DNA - was found in the 1970s.</comment>


The Muse (YC W12) Raises Additional $1M from Alexis Ohanian, Tyra Banks and more - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/04/tyra-banks-and-more-put-a-million-in-the-muse/

<comment><USER2> Finally I get to share a headline with Tyra Banks.

<comment><USER3> That's really why we did it in the first place

<comment><USER2> Thank you.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> They've done some cool open source stuff with Tornado too, very awesome.

This project looks pretty smart as well: [https://github.com/dailymuse/catnap](https://github.com/dailymuse/catnap)

</comment><comment><USER5> Interesting I hope you continue to keep high quality companies on your site. Recently I graduated from college and it was hard to discern which companies were actually good companies to work for and which ones were sketchy companies.

Its really nice being able to see the place and people you will be working with. If I am on the job market again I'm going to check out the muse.

</comment><comment><USER6> Congrats guys this is awesome. Huge market opportunity. It is ridiculous how hard the job search still remains.

</comment><comment><USER7> Definitely one of the realest teams out there. Amazing how much people underrate them. Congrats.

</comment><comment><USER8> Aka "What Color Is Your Parachute" turned into a website. Could be interesting.

<comment><USER3> Thanks - I actually, embarrassingly, have not read the book (I should not admit this in public) but it sounds very much up our alley. That said, you can do so much more digitally than you can in print, especially for people who might be exploring careers in so many different ways and from so many different starting points. Shoot me over ideas any time :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> The most inspiring job website I've seen. Makes working a 9/5 look pretty fun!

</comment><comment><USER10> Congrats Kathryn & co! Looking forward to seeing what you do next.

</comment><comment><USER11> Congrats to the Muse team!</comment>


Fake sarnie shop's big fake Likes leaves Facebook looking flaky - <AUTHOR> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/07/13/bbc_facebook_bots/

<comment><USER2> For the non-UK readers, a sarnie is a sandwich.

</comment><comment><USER3> You can land limitless Likes leaning on Fiverr gigs: <http://fiverr.com/gigs/search?query=facebook+likes> \- there's loads of people at it.

</comment><comment><USER4> Worst headline ever?

<comment><USER5> Why? It shows imaginative use of alteration, something the UK tabloid press delights in.

<comment><USER6> alliteration you mean? You're right, it does sound nice.

<comment><USER5> Argh! Beaten by auto correct and my own laziness in not reading properly, thanks for pointing that out :)</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Mass of Exoplanets Found - <AUTHOR> http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/02/kepler-data-dump/

<comment><AUTHOR> So who want their own planet?</comment>


Ask HN: What apps/sites you use to keep track of the books you read? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> I built my own book "review" site (it's really just my thoughts on a book, not necessarily "reviews"). Every book I read gets a review on my site. It's pretty much just a basic CRUD app, nothing special. The upside of it is that it's a nice go-to source when people ask me for book recommendations.

</comment><comment><USER3> I've been facing the same problem so I've decided to make it my next side- project and build the simplest way to keep track of books online. Here is the link: [http://www.booknshelf.com/](http://www.booknshelf.com/)

</comment><comment><USER4> I currently do not use any, I use to be a paper only person, but I use a kindle now.

I guess I just can scroll through what is on my kindle.

I kind of like how Derek Sivers does it with book notes on his site [https://sivers.org/book](https://sivers.org/book)

</comment><comment><USER5> My book shelf for pastime books. Why would I need to track them?

For professional literature / academics: [http://papersapp.com/](http://papersapp.com/)

</comment><comment><USER6> Google Spreadsheet. I have some cells that calculate the total amount of pages read and also the average time it takes me to finish a book.

<comment><USER7> > calculate... the average time it takes me to finish a book

Out of curiosity, why?

<comment><USER6> No reason really. It's just easy with a spreadsheet since I write the start and finish date anyway. It's not really useful as all books are different anyway.</comment></comment></comment>


Reddit for iOS and Android - <AUTHOR> https://www.reddit.com/mobile/download?ref=HN <comment><USER2> With the purchase of AlienBlue over a year ago, I had high expectations for an official Reddit app. Seeing how hyped Jase (the developer behind AlienBlue) was about this app, I was expecting a less buggy version of AB with more features. Instead, what we got was a reddit app with less features. Here are my main issues with it:

1\. No moderator support. With AlienBlue, we could read all of the Mod Mail, and remove posts, With Reddit.app, I can read some of my mod mail (some message chains are missing), and I can't remove anything.

2\. No Comment flairs

3\. Can't see which posts I've read already

4\. The in-app browser isn't as good as the older AlienBlue one, and doesn't have an optimized view for imgur/direct links

5\. No casual/favorite subreddit groups

6\. Most of the settings in AlienBlue are not in Reddit.app

7\. No swiping gestures except for swiping from the left edge to go back.

Commenters in /r/AlienBlue found more issues with it than what I've found so far. While I have hope for the future of Reddit.app, I'll be sticking with AlienBlue for now.

<comment><USER3> This new app got released minutes ago. It's not going to be perfect out of the gate. Give it some time.

<comment><USER4> This app is not a one-week MVP of a side project released by a developer with zero resources.

It is, however, an app with legitimate substitutes, so an incumbent must be equal or significantly greater.

<comment><USER5> I hope there _continue_ to be legitimate substitutes. I still remember when Twitter decided to add the key limit to their API shortly after releasing their official mobile clients, for the sake of "maintaining a consistent user experience" or something like that.

<comment><USER6> >shortly after releasing their official mobile clients

???

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> > This item isn't available in your country.

It's an app for _Reddit._ Go figure. I'll be sticking with Sync (Android), which doesn't have this bewildering region restriction, has tons of features and faithfully follows Material.

<comment><AUTHOR> We're now available in the US, Canada, UK, and Australia. Launching apps in other countries requires a little bit more diligence than just making a website available globally.

I'm sorry it's not available in your country -- we're planning on getting it out everywhere.

<comment><USER8> Your failure here is not that you are not making it available, but that you failed to communicate this limit in ability.

The flow for me was "hey neat", _click link to reddit page_ , "ok, this looks good", _click link to google play store_ , _click green Install button_ , 'none of your devices are compatible', "what in the ever-loving ...?", _go to hn comments_ , "oh goddamn, not again".

That could've been MUCH shorter and MUCH less confusing if the title up here ( [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11447273](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11447273) ) said: "Announcing Reddit for iOS and Android in NA/UK/AUS" and at the very least having a text below the appstore/playstore buttons stating this.

Have some empathy please.

 _Edit:_ Going "Hello World!" in the "What's New" section also doesn't help matters.

<comment><USER9> [https://twitter.com/reddit/status/718067681438539778](https://twitter.com/reddit/status/718067681438539778)

"Reddit anywhere with our app for iPhone & Android"

Replies are filled with people from countries where they can't get it.

<comment><USER8> Wow, "anywhere" makes it actively worse.

<comment><USER10> I remember Google doing the same thing when they launched their "Chromebooks are for everyone" ad campaign - you could only purchase one in the UK or the US.

It's like companies are actively trying to annoy the region's they geo-block.

<comment><USER11> No, it's like what's actually true - that they don't think about those places and therefore do things like write slogans with the mindset that such people don't exist.

<comment><USER12> Even more likely: whoever wrote that copy isn't the same person as whoever decided on the geo-locking policy.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> In addition to the other problems raised, it's frustrating that while Reddit itself continues to be open source [1] with significant contributions from the open source community [2], neither of these new apps are (and with no signs of that changing).

[1] [https://github.com/reddit/reddit](https://github.com/reddit/reddit)

[2] [https://github.com/reddit/reddit/graphs/contributors](https://github.com/reddit/reddit/graphs/contributors)

<comment><USER14> Their new website is open-source and updated frequently:

[https://github.com/reddit/reddit-mobile](https://github.com/reddit/reddit- mobile)

<comment><USER15> Promotion websites and server-side engines are nice (even though we know Reddit Inc runs a slightly modified version), but malicious client-side apps can be significantly more harmful by abusing permissions.

That's why I'm very careful what I install on my phone: unlike Reddit posts, I have virtually no control over what the software does.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> My favorite part of this app is how they only released it in three countries, because nothing says "front page of the internet more" than a good ol' geo- lock.

<comment><USER17> This was explained in the original announcement thread. It'd be easy for a bunch of countries to turn round to Apple/Google and say "we don't want this app in our country", especially given the... breadth of Reddit's content. They're rolling out slowly to reduce the amount of firefighting they have to do.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/4dqxgt/reddi...](https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/4dqxgt/reddit_mobile_apps/d1th4uf)

<comment><USER18> How often do EU countries do that? African countries? South American countries (except maybe Brazil)? As somebody from an excluded country (in the EU) that has zero history of app censorship, this rings quite hollow to me. In fact it is almost insulting, given that you bundle some freedom-loving countries in one bag with Russia and China.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> I think I now know why Reddit was so generous with all of the Gold. The app, although very fast and responsive on iOS, lacks many of the features that Alien Blue had. I could find zero integrations with any third party services. The cool thing about Alien Blue is, if I was a stoplight and didn't have time to read a linked article, I'd just add it to Pinboard and get back to it later.

Another major failing - there isn't an option to always open links in your browser of choice. At least use a Safari View Controller, for pete's sake.

EDIT: It looks like I can choose to share a link with the ... menu option. I can then share to my Pinner "Quick Save" option to save to Pinboard. Not sure how I missed it.

<comment><USER20> They were generous with the gold because they're probably going to shut AlienBlue down. AB doesn't have any ads, they can't make money off those users.

<comment><USER2> They're not shutting AlienBlue down, but they removed it from the App Store, and they are not updating it anymore.

<comment><USER20> They can shut it down by changing the reddit API so it no longer works, thus forcing users to switch to the new app.

<comment><USER2> If they do that, they would break every 3rd party reddit app, which reddit said they wouldn't do. Of course, that doesn't mean their position will change in the future.

<comment><USER21> no, they could just disable the AB API key...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> The official Reddit app for Android is pretty feature poor so far. It only offers a default theme and a dark theme. It only offers a default layout and a compact layout. No customization beyond that. No option to always view links in external browser and Imgur links aren't opened in the Imgur app (etc for other sites).

It's nice that they've finally released an official app, but to use this instead of Bacon Reader / Relay / Slide / Reddit is Fun / etc would be a large step back in functionality.

<comment><USER23> Not sure. Today, I was installing all your mentioned Reddit clients and deinstalling them right afterwards. While the first impression is good and they seem to offer lots of features they lack one important thing (at least the free versions)—to save a sub in a favorite list which is easy to access. Something which is essential and they don't offer it or hide it away in the paid version. Something btw which the Now Reddit client on Android does for free. I think another Reddit client is definitely no breaking news but that the existing ones are so much superior? Not really.

<comment><USER24> You should try Relay -- it's quite good, and even lets you manage multiple accounts.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> There's a good checklist of app features, per /r/AlienBlue: [https://np.reddit.com/r/AlienBlue/comments/4dqajk/new_reddit...](https://np.reddit.com/r/AlienBlue/comments/4dqajk/new_reddit_app_discussion_thread/)

The big feature omission is _no iPad support_ , which I am legitimately curious why they would leave that out.

If you are looking for a iOS Reddit client, I _strongly_ recommend Antenna, which is amazing on an iPad as well due to Split View.

<comment><USER25> How are 3rd party Reddit apps on the security front? If I login through Antenna, is there any way to guarantee that they don't have full access to my Reddit identity and credentials? Or is that the risk of going with them?

<comment><USER26> They all were forced to switch to oauth with reddits latest api changes. Which means you see a very ugly screen for a while during login.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> I believe that if you look at this moment a year from now, it will be a major inflection point, bringing reddit to a much larger audience.

We're all tech savvy on this site and may not mind monkeying with the previous third-party apps, but there's a much wider audience that will be willing to use a well-supported first-party app.

<comment><USER28> The problem is no one really uses apps anymore. Especially to view a website when you already have a mobile app that does that for you (your browser). This feature is 3 years too late in my mind to be a needle mover.

<comment><USER29> > The problem is no one really uses apps anymore

This might be a bit of a generalization. People tend to use apps for websites they visit very frequently (eg more than 2-3x a day). Even more so when the mobile version of the website is rife with bugs and/or limitations.

Reddit's mobile site is passable but the third party apps blow it out of the water on both iOS and Android.

<comment><USER28> Just basing it on research Ive seen [1][2][3] and my own personal use. If the reddit application is feature poor, there isnt a reason to not use the web version, maybe with an extension or two to make it awesome.

[1] [http://qz.com/253618/most-smartphone-users-download-zero- app...](http://qz.com/253618/most-smartphone-users-download-zero-apps-per- month/)

[2] [http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/mobile/most-people-download- zero...](http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/mobile/most-people-download-zero-apps- month-n186866)

[3] [http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/22/consumers-spend-85-of- time-...](http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/22/consumers-spend-85-of-time-on- smartphones-in-apps-but-only-5-apps-see-heavy-use/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> I don't use Reddit actively anymore (just when a link leads me to the site) but the last time used it actively and even today when I have to access the site on mobile my favourite app is Reddit Is Fun.[1]

Its free version[2] is as good. I just bought paid one[2] to support the fantastic app. They also have the source code of an old version[4] available online, though the app's current source is not open sourced I think.

I like this app for its:

\- Simplicity

\- Speed

\- No nonsense approach to serving content

[1] [https://www.talklittle.com/reddit-is- fun/](https://www.talklittle.com/reddit-is-fun/)

[2] [https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.andrewshu....](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.andrewshu.android.reddit&hl=en)

[2] [https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.andrewshu....](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.andrewshu.android.redditdonation)

[4] [https://github.com/talklittle/reddit-is- fun](https://github.com/talklittle/reddit-is-fun)

</comment><comment><USER31> What I don't understand is why is reddit putting so much effort in their own apps now when there are very good 3rd party apps available?

Is the end goal to take control of mobile and close down the API so they can shove ads down peoples throats?

It didn't work out well for twitter...

<comment><USER25> Most likely yes. This seems to be the Twitter approach all over again. Although you'd think the failings of that would be pretty obvious from a strategic standpoint, particularly for someone with as much business-savvy as Sam. So odds are they either have an idea for how to do it differently, or they think their platform is so much better and entrenched than Twitter that the same bad strategy could still be successful for them.

</comment></comment><comment> tma-1 Narwhal is one of the most underrated Reddit apps, so much better than AB and obviously superior to this new app.

<comment> norea-armozel Yeah, after trying all the apps on iOS I prefer Narwhal the most. I'm not sure why. It's similar to Reddit is fun in terms of the subreddit list which why I guess I like it. The other apps seem to not make it easier to manage your multis or subreddits.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> I am disappointed in the Android client so far. There are several very featureful alternatives such as Relay.

I don't think it is a bad thing for Reddit to offer a free, bare minimum client. But after the Twitter experience I hope we don't see a gradual exclusion of the competition.

</comment><comment><USER33> I use Relay For Reddit and it works really well. Better than The mobile website and newest mobile official app.

</comment><comment><USER34> The last progressive web thread on HN mentioned this app for HN: [https://cheeaun.github.io/hackerweb/](https://cheeaun.github.io/hackerweb/) and I love it. Does anyone know of something similar for Reddit?

<comment><USER2> If you're looking for a mobile webapp for reddit, they have [https://m.reddit.com/](https://m.reddit.com/)

<comment><USER35> There's also [https://i.reddit.com](https://i.reddit.com). It sports an older look but I find it just works a lot better than the new mobile site.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> No-one has mentioned it here but this app appears to me to be an important milestone for Reddit. They're now hosting content themselves. An announcement in /r/modnews tells mods to whitelist Reddit's new image hosting domain.

This is probably not good news for imgur.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/4drl3j/moderators_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/4drl3j/moderators_ireddituploadscom_is_legitimate_you/)

</comment><comment><USER37> That's a neat website.

Is there any tutorial/documentation on how to design beautiful websites like that.Asides from looking at the source: [https://www.reddit.com/mobile/site/style.css](https://www.reddit.com/mobile/site/style.css)

<comment><USER38> a beautiful broken website... the first animation completely obscures the text.

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> Wow, out for only a few hours and they're not pulling any punches with the criticism and suggestions in the comments.

Maybe in a few months we'll end up with one damn fine app.

On a sidenote, one obviously bad thing is the overuse of referral URLs and tracking redirects for every link.

</comment><comment><USER40> Would it have hurt them to include a single phone running Android in their announcement?

I've no confidence that this won't be some sort of half-assed browser-based app which doesn't follow Android's conventions.

<comment><USER41> It's not browser based, but they definitely used a loose interpretation of Google's Material Design. What stands out to me most is their Card design and use of icons in the drawer layout.

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> Looks great on iOS, but the feature set is lacking. I'll probably stick to using Antenna for now. Good to see they haven't just been ignoring Alien Blue for no reason, though.

</comment><comment><USER43> Hmm. Still can't see it in the Portuguese iOS App Store.

This sort of thing happens time and again when someone fails to click the right options when publishing an app (typically in the US) :)

</comment><comment><USER23> Reddit is one of my most used website. I am preferring many subs over established forums, eg r/apple, r/ipad over Macrumors, sometimes r/programming over HN, very often r/javascript and so on.

I welcome Reddit's new native clients. Who knows, maybe we see soon some more and significant innovations than just being another Reddit client which employs the standard API.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you, greenspot! The team has been working very hard on mobile and we're aiming for this to be the first of many updates.

Meet some of the folks behind it and hear how we're thinking about it: [https://youtu.be/6IWMbdAuy1M](https://youtu.be/6IWMbdAuy1M)

</comment></comment><comment><USER44> I just wish they would serve the mobile site on the same domain. It's way too much work to modify the URL to get to the mobile site. I don't want to need an app to read news.

</comment><comment><USER45> Anyone have apk file, it's not available in my country.

<comment><USER46> [https://apps.evozi.com/apk- downloader/?id=com.reddit.frontpa...](https://apps.evozi.com/apk- downloader/?id=com.reddit.frontpage)

</comment></comment><comment><USER47> HTC One M8 not eligible for install! What?

</comment><comment><USER48> Why is this app not available in Germany? I can access reddit in the browser, but not install the app. WTF???

</comment><comment><USER49> Reddit for iOS sends shared links to the desktop version of Reddit instead of the mobile version ==

</comment><comment><USER50> Finally. Horray. Knew when AB was being bought. They were doing something

</comment><comment><USER51> "This item cannot be installed in your country". Wat?

</comment><comment><USER52> Not available in my country (Finland) :'(

</comment><comment><USER53> since reddit works fine in smart phone's webbrowsers, why we even need an app?

</comment><comment><USER54> Instacrashes on my OnePlus One

</comment><comment><USER55> Available only od US Store...

</comment><comment><USER56> what i the world were they waiting for?

</comment><comment><USER57> what's up with their site?

<comment><USER57> [http://imgur.com/a/Wtp5l](http://imgur.com/a/Wtp5l)

</comment></comment><comment><USER58> that webpage makes me seasick

</comment><comment><USER59> not available in India (:

<comment><USER60> i know, right?

</comment></comment><comment><USER61> Ah, reddit.

</comment><comment><USER62> Reddit is penalized on HN (sorry for the shock), but this is obviously real news, so we've taken off the penalty and restored a few hours of clock time to this post.

<comment><USER63> Interesting! Is that a hard-coded penalty or is there some sort of calculated weighted penalty per-domain based on some criteria? If the former, is it just due to mod experience of poor-quality/just link submissions?

<comment><USER62> Not sure what you mean by hard-coded penalty but there are two classes of sites (called lightweight and midweight) whose submissions get penalized by default because of too many lightweight stories in the past. Not necessarily bad content, just content that doesn't fit the HN guidelines. Reddit's great of course—it's just that sometimes (well, usually maybe) HN isn't the best vessel for its greatness.

Most major media websites are in one of these categories. Moderators take the penalties off when we see a solid submission, and there are other ways that the software interprets community input to mean that an article might be better than usual and lifts the penalty.

We were nervous about making heavier use of this technique, but there were so many complaints about fluff articles making the front page that we had to do something, and banning major sites that sometimes produce excellent-for-HN articles wasn't an option. By now the current approach has been in place for a couple of years and it has worked out pretty well. Those complaints will never go away but they're at a more manageable level.

<comment><USER63> Thanks for the response! What I meant by "hard-coded" penalty, is there is a list of domains somewhere and "reddit.com" is on it. I was wondering if that was the case, or if these domains were discovered automatically somehow. Based on your description, it sounds like it's the former and then occasionally the penalty is negated automatically?

<comment><USER62> Yup that's correct.

<comment><USER26> So thats why so many frontpage articles on HN are blogspam versions of comments copy-pasted from reddit threads, in contrast to linking the actual threads directly? That explains a lot.

<comment><USER62> Do you have links to these?

<comment><USER26> I used to have links to these, but in the 1.5 hours I had to wait before I could send a comment again ("You're submitting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks."), I lost them. You might want to just check them yourself – often the reddit thread is mentioned in the comments, or as source in the blog post.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER64> I thought the whole point of not doing mobile apps themselves was because it's a waste of engineering time since there's a massive community that will do the work for them. I would much rather see them focus on making the site better.

<comment><USER26> But with third party apps they can't do user tracking or showing ads everywhere.</comment></comment>


Wireless electricity comes to CES, but will it power mobile devices? - <AUTHOR> http://www.thestandard.com/news/2009/01/07/wireless-electricity-coming-ces-dont-expect-much-mobility

<comment><USER2> Maybe I'm missing something here, but does this mean that the a/c is condensing the energy and sending it to what is essentially a solar receiver on the device (solar being light, not sun)?

1.5 watts doesn't sound like much, but I'm not super familiar with this stuff.</comment>


VW, Hyundai Turn to Driverless-Car Startup in Silicon Valley - <AUTHOR> https://www.wsj.com/articles/vw-hyundai-turn-to-driverless-car-startup-in-silicon-valley-1515063601 <comment><USER2> [http://archive.is/VEq86](http://archive.is/VEq86)

<comment><USER3> Link has nsfw material on the side.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Why are NASA and SpaceX so hellbend on going to mars? - <AUTHOR> When we could or should go to the moon which is far closer and therefore easier to colonize and could be used as a jump pad to the rest of the solar system. <comment><USER2> Hell-bent

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah bad typo, thx but I was too late for the editing party</comment></comment>


OpenFLIXR – all-in-one media server for automated downloading and serving media - <AUTHOR> https://www.openflixr.com/ <comment><USER2> where is source code for VM recipe? what entities are behind it? does it mine crypto on behalf of creators? ipfs-zeronet-dat? where is crypto donate button? alternatives? i know there is forum, but stuff should be read on main page.</comment>


How a Game Taught Me to Correctly Price a Product - <AUTHOR> https://firstname.lastname@example.com/how-a-game-taught-me-to-correctly-price-a-product-8590b5929da1 <comment><USER2> Interesting. Ultimately, the traditional forms of price discovery inherent in a market are a function of supply and demand; they don't really carry over into the digital world where supply is effectively infinite and demand is elastic.

Rather, what we face is a change from commodities (wheat, fish, etc) to distinct products within a category. When I go searching for an app for a purpose, I have to choose:

* Do I want the app that costs $10, which seems expensive for a phone app, but also seems like it's likely to be of the highest quality by virtue of the price?

* Do I want the app that's priced at $2.99, which is more than 99 cents but still not $10? It might be better than the 99 cent app, or it might be a 99 cent app that the creator got wise about and charges more for now...

* Do I want the 99 cent app, knowing it's the least someone can charge? Does this imply a lack of quality? It feels a little bit better than the next category...

* How about the free app with ads and in-app purchases? I see that and worry that the app will annoy me and not be useful.

* How about the entirely free app?

I find myself experimenting with the latter, most of the time. One technique that works really well on me is to have two separate apps, one free with no ads/in-app purchases but limited in functionality with multiple indications of what I could do in the paid app, and then a paid app for $5 or so. If I like the basic version and the quality seems right, upgrading is an easy decision.

Perhaps app stores could incorporate feedback functionality so someone can press a button indicating how they feel about value for money - "I'd buy this but it's too expensive", or a "Wow, what a deal" button.</comment>


Show HN: A simple Poker API to calculate the winning hand/s - <AUTHOR> https://www.pokerapi.dev/ <comment><USER2> I have a sudden urge to extend this to calculating probabilities and to buy a pair of smart glasses.

<comment><USER3> This has been a standard tool in remote poker for years. That tooling has even included hand histories for your opponent. One of the last great new players to blow up the poker scene before "Black Friday" almost went bust in a match where his opponent analyzed his hand history. You wouldn't gain an edge with these tools, you would be way behind if you didn't use them.

Running the calculations in your head isn't hard. You can get it with practice and it's an obvious step for being a good poker player.

There's a huge difference in quality of players in virtual gaming vs "B&M" (bricks and mortar, or playing face to face.) The world mourned the poker scene after Black Friday because the market for horrible players with money to blow disappeared. This left the hard core grinders with nobody to fish but each other. I suppose this would be much like potential competition in a world of WFH vs requiring your presence in one of the most expensive cities in the world.

There's still lots of horrible players in B&M games. You can do okay with just a gut feel for the calculations in these games. A lot of players like to gamble. It depends on the level of the game. As the blinds climb, the game gets harder.

<comment><USER4> For anyone wondering, Black Friday seems to refer to this: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Scheinberg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Scheinberg)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I once had to write a version that worked for multiple games. Holdem, Omaha, Omaha 8 or better, Ace to Five, Deuce to Seven, and Badugi. I did it using inheritance, having high and low hand classes. The low ball games just reverse ordinary logic, but Omaha 8 needed both and the 8 or better restrictions. The Badugi class rewrote everything entirely.

When I finally finished I was asked to add Stud, Badeucy and Badacey. That's when I quit.

<comment><USER6> Would you do this in a different way now?

<comment><USER5> I wouldn't do it in Objective C again, that's for sure.

But no, I think the class structure worked well for this. Just too many esoteric rules in these games. And it's getting worse from what I hear of the high stakes games. Archey was just getting popular when I quit and now there is like a half dozen new games they play. It's a constant arms race to see who can master a new set of rules to skin the fish with.

<comment><USER7> As crazy as it sounds, this is why I'd try to keep it simple and just keep each implementation separate. Sure I'd save some keystrokes having a base abstraction and whatnot, but I feel like Poker is one of those "i'll make an interface" traps that is much more complex than it originally seems

<comment><USER5> The abstraction is pretty simple, and close to that. IIRC I had base Hand object that defines a comparison routine that takes a Hand object.

The Hand object has a method that returns Card objects by index with a high to low order so subclasses can do their comparisons in either 4 or 5 card games.

The you need like a best hand method, so games like Holdem that make best 5 card hands out of 7 cards work. Then a bunch of utility functions.

It's also useful to have your Card objects have their comparison functions.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> What are you using under the hood?

I've been using poker-eval for a few projects but it seems its now abandonware, with few updates out there.

I'm tempted to port it to Go and/or Rust to keep it alive, but I'm interested in what else people are using out there for poker hand evaluation.

<comment><USER9> If you don't need everything that's going on in poker-eval, you should be able to roll your own two dozen lines of Python.

A poker hand evaluator is problem #54 at Project Euler. [0] Peter Norvig has a solution there (which you can view after you submit your own correct solution) that taught me a lot about Python-style and how it differs from C++ (which was my mindset at the time).

[0] [https://projecteuler.net/problem=54](https://projecteuler.net/problem=54)

<comment><USER10> That's very nice, much shorter than mine. array[[i][/i]r] had me scratching my head for a few minutes, when I realized those were stray italic tags. My only complaint is he doesn't check for the wheel, but to be fair most solutions don't seem to.

<comment><USER9> The wheel is excluded by the problem definition (or rather, not specifically included). The ace only counts as a high card here.

<comment><USER11> > The wheel is excluded by the problem definition (or rather, not specifically > included).

Excluded was correct, if only indirectly: a straight is defined as five cards of consecutive value and aces are explicitly the highest (and not also the lowest) values, so the wheel is not a valid straight by the definition given.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Reminds me of the 2+2 poker hand evaluator - they basically built an insanely fast giant lookup table that fit in ~100megs of ram IIRC.

The main idea was to do monte-carlo simulations and give you your odds of winning at any point in the game by dealing random cards for the unknowns.

Interesting read on that and other evaluators as well:

[http://web.archive.org/web/20130116102452/http://www.codingt...](http://web.archive.org/web/20130116102452/http://www.codingthewheel.com/archives/poker- hand-evaluator-roundup#2p2)

<comment><USER13> With a fast evaluator you generally don't need to do Monte Carlo approximation - you can just brute force all combinations.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> One of my side projects was to make a game where you need to calculate your odds correctly as fast as possible but main goal was to learn some TypeScript so I lost interest after I was satisfied.

Anyway, I got at least one "game" done, you need to correctly count your outs. It is not perfect but covers most cases well.

[https://github.com/GustekDev/poker-odds- game](https://github.com/GustekDev/poker-odds-game)

</comment><comment><USER15> I have an algorithm in C# that converts hands to numerical values from 0.highcard, 1.pair, 2.twopair, 3.trips ... to 9 (royal flush). From there it can compare the hands and determine the winner(s).

</comment><comment><USER16> Calculating odds would be more interesting

<comment><USER17> I agree. Not sure how this helps improve poker play.

<comment><USER18> I doubt it's supposed to, it's to calculate who wins when writing your own poker implementation. I am not the author, but calculating the winner is non trivial.

<comment><USER19> Is it not? The win criteria is well specified so just iterate downwards from the highest priority win until you find a match?

<comment><USER18> Sure, but that gets complicated when comparing two matching hands (flush vs flush, 2 pair vs 2pair). It's more than a 50 line problem to solve.

<comment><USER19> Okay fair it's more than 50 lines, I guess my definition of non-trivial is something you can't quickly think of a design for. I'll try it later and see if there's some gotchas I can't think of :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> You want to buy deckofcardsapi.com?</comment>