Google Street View: A wolf in sheep's clothing - <AUTHOR> http://www.holovaty.com/writing/streetview/

<comment><USER2> Decent thought experiment but the whole "wolf in sheep's clothing" part is just link bait title or a really bad analogy. A more appropriate analogy would be "a head fake" as the late Randy Pausch so aptly put it.

<comment><USER3> Probably just a really bad analogy. They also used "vicious cycle of driving and learning" where "virtuous circle" (which I take to mean a system with positive feedback) would be more appropriate.

<comment><USER4> Well, both vicious and virtuous cycles involve positive feedback (i.e. in the direction of current change). The difference is that virtuous cycles tend towards positive outcomes.

The whole piece uses terms with negative connotations to convey what I think is meant to be a positive message of being impressed by ingenuity. So, I'm not sure which is the more charitable interpretation: he was extremely careless in writing the post, or was deliberately misleading to get views.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> If I squint my eyes and ignore all the facts that are already out there about Google's driverless cars, then I suppose this could be true.

I sometimes enjoy these sorts of articles. They're the fan-fiction of the tech world and it's no different to the sort of conjecture people like to come up with for Apple, which can be shameless fun to read.

But when there's already a ton of information out there about how Google's driverless cars work, it just seems cheap and hollow.

Also, I don't get the title.

<comment><USER6> > all the facts that are already out there about Google's driverless cars

Are you referring here to fact that the driverless cars follow pre-determined paths rather than reading traffic signals? Or do you just mean that the proposed motivation doesn't really hold water? Because it seems pretty plausible to me that streetview data could be very useful to the drtiverless car, even if other data is more important and even if streetview is better motivated on its own.

<comment><USER5> Google's driverless cars have had a lot of PR recently, with some pretty decent coverage of how they actually work.

The cars don't follow predetermined routes. At present they do learn routes, but not using Google Street View data. Actually, the opposite is true, the intention is for the diver-less cars to generate 3d data for street view.

<comment><USER6> According to this blog post, the map data is pretty important.

> Two things seem particularly interesting about Google's approach. First, > [Google's driverless car] relies on very detailed maps of the roads and > terrain, something that Urmson said is essential to determine accurately > where the car is. Using GPS-based techniques alone, he said, the location > could be off by several meters.

[http://jalopnik.com/5851324/how-googles-self+driving-car- wor...](http://jalopnik.com/5851324/how-googles-self+driving-car-works)

Do you know for sure that they don't use Google Street view data? If so, I think you're unusual in knowing that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Everyone who took Sebastian Thrun's Udacity "Building a self driving car" course (or everybody that has had training in robotics) will see that there's a whole lot more than mere training data to build a self driving car.

It could be helpful in certain scenarios, but it's for sure not enough for the data for the cars to be the main reason behind street view. As the author himself notices, the map business is huge, and it's even bigger when coupled with always connected location aware devices.

An unlikely, if fun, story.

<comment><USER8> I took most of Thrun's course. There was a lot about robot localization based on pre-existing map data...exactly what StreetView is collecting.

If the StreetView cars are using LIDAR, they have a lot of high-quality 3D maps, perfect for robot localization. Even if they're just taking photos, various groups have demonstrated building 3D models from collections of photos.

<comment><USER7> Yes, that's right. What I find hard to believe is that the main reason behind the project is the self driving car. I can easily believe it's one of a set of objectives.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Is there any evidence for this? About 15 seconds of looking around suggests it's probably not true.

\- 2007: Street View released

\- 2007: DARPA Urban Challenge

\- After 2007: Google hires several of the teams that won. This is where they got most of their expertise in self driving cars.

\- Also note that the Urban Challenge winners didn't rely on "lots of data" but instead "lots of sensors"

Not really a fan of this type of random speculation.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA_Grand_Challenge>

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View>

<comment><USER10> Prof. Thrun was part of the team that used laser range-finders to assist the image stitching in StreetView. Since both sensors (rangefinders and cameras) were mounted on a mobile vehicle, wheel odometry and GPS "ground truth" must have been available at each waypoint as well. The author of the post suggested that Google might have used the GPS data (and possibly rangefinders) to create a simulated world to teach the self-driving car (useful for testing new tweaks?). This is a good idea and probably did not take them a lot of effort given the available log of data from StreetView.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I worked for a company that made the first two street view systems. They also contributed a lot to the robocar project and eventually got bought by google to work on Chauffeur.

The sensors and math that provide the perception component of chauffeur are, for conversational purposes, identical to those of street view. But the two teams are not working together. The demands of each project are too different.

<comment><USER12> it also feels that in some cases the data would simply be useless, e.g. data collected in rome and other historical cities by pedaling bikes in pedestrian areas.

<comment><USER13> I agree, the author mistakes that any kind of driving is all that is needed to build the driverless car system. When so far it's been revealed that the current level of technology requires the _same_ route to be driven many times. I.E. It's not generalised yet, and not the trojan horse purported to be. (That and the driverless car relies on technology with a resolution that was not originally available when the street view program originally launched.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I thought Google's Street View cars couldn't drive very fast to be able to take those pictures. When not driving at full speed, it's not really a good learning set.

Also the link says they get to "know every road by definition", but you could read that almost entirely from TomTom's maps as well. Roads change, weather conditions change, etc. I'm not so sure Google really uses their Street View car data for their self-driving cars. Though it is almost certainly a part of it, I don't think this is the crux to solving the self-driving car problem.

<comment><USER15> _I thought Google's Street View cars couldn't drive very fast to be able to take those pictures. When not driving at full speed, it's not really a good learning set._

I'd argue that the vast majority of the roads where one drives faster than 50 km/h are very simple. This is especially true for highways; they have to be, because humans are bad at thinking at 120 km/h and even worse at surviving collisions at that speed. There's an overabundance of signs and road marking, and an incredible effort has been put into making it relatively hard for drivers to behave irrationally. Compare that with, say, a multi-lane roundabout in the inner city.

Once you've got enough data to reliably survive that kind of situation, you're 90% of the way there.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> The author is going to be even more blown away when he finds out Google has been using recaptcha to train image recognition on street view data. Of course seeing street view as simply a long bet purely for self driving cars seems like a narrative fallacy.

</comment><comment><USER17> Google's self-driving car's main sensors are a 360 degree rotating laser and a radar, NOT a camera... unless Sebastian Thrun has been lying in his Udacity CS 373 course.

<comment><USER18> Seeing how Sebastian is the head of the team working on it, I think it's safe to believe him on this one.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> One big hole in the logic:

Street view cars all work during the daytime. There is no nighttime street imagery on streetview, and anecdotally, I've never seen a streetview car at night.

Having self-driving cars during daylight hours only is still an ambitious goal, though.

<comment><USER5> I don't think that would matter. Googles driverless cars use 3D laser scanners which don't require any ambient light. Plus, computers can theoretically see a lot more of the spectrum and therefore see a lot more than we mere mortals. They could look at the road ahead an know exactly what temperature it is, and possibly even see black ice. They could see a ninja on a black horse, at night, in the rain and fog, from miles away using thermal imaging.

Daylight driving, to a machine, would probably be more difficult than night time driving simply because there's more stuff happening on the roads during the day.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> This is kind of a no-duh, sherlock non-story.

Fact 1: Sebastian Thrun co-developed Google StreetView

Fact 2: Sebastian Thrun is developing the driverless car.

A lot more goes into a self-driving car than data from how drivers drive. That's maybe 3% of the problem. Nevertheless, assuming Sebastian is too dumb to make the connection would assume a fairly high level of stupidity on his part. That's a pretty bad assumption.

<comment><USER21> Fact 1: Elon Musk helped found PayPal

Fact 2: Elon Musk is developing rockets, with hopes of one day sending people to Mars.

It is clear that Elon Musk is only trying to corner the mobile payments market on Mars. Don't assume Elon is too dumb to realize the market potential of an entirely new planet!

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> It sure fits nicely together, but I doubt this was the plan all along. Google general strategy seems to be to collect as much data as possible just in case it might become useful one day. Good decision to load up the StreetView cars not just with cameras for pictures, but with all kinds of sensors to collect a bunch of potentially useful metrics. That data is becoming handy for quite a few things now.

</comment><comment><USER23> Ok, let's be serious. Usage of street view data may or may not be useful for the driverless cars. But the original, primary motivation for street view was the ability to build their own map data and remove their dependency on existing map providers like teleAtlas. Driverless cars were frankly too far out, and not close enough to their primary business model to be worth it at the time. And being able to remove their maps licensing requirements gave them infinitely more freedom at a time when their mapping product was especially important to them.

</comment><comment><USER24> If you have ever used street view to catch a glimpse of your destination at an unknown address or to look for key landmarks at important intersections, you'll notice right away that the Street View data is the last thing you would want powering an autonomous car. Many of the mapped roads only show the view from one lane, and if the road is more than one lane wide, you're missing data on the positions of the other lane(s). I can't count the number of times the view I wanted was on the other side of a median or divider, with no data for that side. Following a pre-mapped course on a multi-lane road using only Street View data would be a nightmare. Reminds me of the stories of people pulling U-turns in the middle of a freeway because their GPS told them to.

<comment><USER25> I think you misunderstood the point of machine learning. The cars don't drive by memorization/knowledge of each street but rather the knowledge of what has been done in similar situations thousands of times before.

<comment><USER24> Yes, my point being that even after five years of mapping, they still don't have those thousands of similar situations to use as reliable data set.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> So that cars can drive with the 80-90% success rate that voice recognition has achieved with similar methods? If you can model your entire surroundings several times a second to cm precision, you don't have to settle for machine learning and "just about perfect".

</comment><comment><USER27> linkbait in sheep's clothing.

</comment><comment><USER28> I only just occurred to me - are these self-driving cars expected to pump their own gas? Surely Google's not prepared to build a complete network of fuelling stations that are compatible with unmanned cars?

<comment><USER29> What's stopping them from making deals with petrol stations to have the attendants pump the petrol for them?

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> "You put a camera on the front of your car, and you set it to capture frequent images of the road ahead of you while you drive. At the same time, you capture all the data about your driving -- steering-wheel movement, acceleration and braking, speed"

I'm curious: How does one capture the car data? In the self driver car, the ML and camera part of it seems to be easier than the interface with the car mechanics, yet there's generally little mention of that part.

<comment><USER31> I know someone who used an arduino to pull in sensor data for their vehicle. I don't think the project is online but they got a very solid amount of data over a period of 3 months including, braking, acceleration and steering. all of this without any distinct modifications to the body.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> This article is flat out wrong. Google's autonomous vehicles do the data collection for Google's autonomous vehicles.

They drive ahead of time around every environment in which they want to operate, with a bunch more sensors and more accurate localisation than the streetview vehicles. The lidar on the streetview vehicles is intended to provide a 3D surface model of the buildings lining each street. I find it very doubtful that they'd attempt to do supervised learning of human driving behaviour from the streetview vehicles, rather than the actual automated ones.

</comment><comment><USER33> Lots of data won't do any good with imperfect algorithms. Just look at all the nonsense generated by Google Translate. It doesn't even know grammar.

<comment><USER34> Actually, Google Translate was an enormous leap forward in machine translation quality. It won a number of awards for its astonishingly good performance. And its design premise is that you can use really simple algorithms if you have crazy amounts of training data (a then controversial approach called 'statistical machine translation' - as opposed to rule/grammar based).

Look at Norvig (Google's head of research, and AI-demigod) at al's paper "The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Data."

<comment><USER35> It might have been an enormous leap, and it might have won a lot of awards.

But it still produces a great deal of nonsense.

My only semi-informed opinion (hunch) is that the Google/Norvig brand of statistical approach to AI is a 80% solution to a lot of things, but that last 20% is going to be killer to get.

Right now this approach to AI is a great boost for humans, who can finish off that last 20% themselves, but I have doubts about the autonomous versions...

I am curious to see what happens with the self-driving car in real world use. And if translate ever gets much better than it is today. Or if, for that matter, Google search gets much better than it is today.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> "the value of the data about the collection of the data" A powerful idea.

</comment><comment><USER37> >>"UPDATE: I changed the title of this post from "wolf in sheep's clothing," as that was a lame metaphor that didn't actually make sense."

I think the original title is perfect: this is a lame post which doesn't make much sense.

</comment><comment><USER38> The driver-less car seems like just a side-project of Google's primary business goal: to steal Social Network marketshare from Facebook in the form of shoving Google Plus down our throats. I mean, what's more important, innovating and giving people a technology which will improve their lives, or forcing them to use a website in which to show them cat pictures and click on context-aware advertisements?

<comment><USER39> Interestingly, the age of the driverless car would suit Google's core business for two reasons:

1\. People would have more time to surf the web (instead of driving)

2\. People will have more disposable income (because presumably driverless cars will save us all a lot of money)

<comment><USER40> you forgot to add the project glass thing. Ads would literally be in your face! Sometime in the future, they'll also be able to control people's psyche through all the glass thing to mask their evil doings.

<comment><USER41> Plan is to project the ads onto the windscreen of your car - since its driverless you don't need to see out of it anymore. ;-)

<comment><USER40> so the screen would be touch screen or something lol. How would the ads be tracked or interacted with if the ads are on the windshield?

I'm assuming the car owner would be sitting at the back.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> Is the author seriously implying a car loaded down with lots of cameras and doing an average of 30MPH is Google's ultimate vehicle for training driverless cars?

If he's right, God help us all.</comment>


Dear Google: Shouldn't You Worry About Your Own Health? - <AUTHOR> http://www.wired.com/business/2013/09/google-page-calico/ <comment><USER2> >and should be troubling to shareholders — that Google neglects medium-term

Oh, for once, would someone think of the short to mid term shareholder gains!

Is this guy serious?</comment>


Clojure Protocols and the Expression Problem - <AUTHOR> http://formpluslogic.blogspot.com/2010/08/clojure-protocols-and-expression.html <comment><USER2> This looks nice, but I have a small nit to pick: the expression problem concerns _static_ type safety, so discussing it in the context of an untyped/dynamically typechecked language is a bit off.

</comment><comment><USER3> The author mentions this presentation by Stuart Halloway on Vimeo at the end of the article - Reiterating it here - <http://vimeo.com/11236603>

I watched the video yesterday, and reading this article after the fact helped articulate some of what Stuart was covering in his presentation. YMMV.</comment>


Crime Against Children in India - How data science can help! - <AUTHOR> http://gggodhwani.github.io/crime_against_children/ We are a group of data science enthusiasts who are helping NGOs collect and analyse their data to make better and informed data driven decisions and have larger impact. If your NGO needs help with its data, please feel free to contact. <comment><USER2> State sponsored crime is [http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Every-second-Indian- child-is...](http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Every-second-Indian-child-is- malnourished-Report/articleshow/25724848.cms)

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, we have already been associated with CRY from past 1 year to collect & monitor this data in Bangalore. We would be surely working to take issue of Malnourished Children in more focus using data analysis & visualization methods.</comment></comment>


Review of "Adults in the Room" by Yanis Varoufakis - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/may/03/yanis-varoufakis-greece-greatest-political-memoir <comment><AUTHOR> "The first revelation is that not only was Greece bankrupt in 2010 when the EU bailed it out, and that the bailout was designed to save the French and German banks, but that Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy knew this; and they knew it would be a disaster."

The treasury departments of the French and German banks had loaded up on GGBs - Greek Govt Bonds because they yielded more basis points than eg German Govt bonds, but also had AAA rating. The AAA was culpable negligence by Moodys, S&P, Fitch rating agencies. Ignoring the credit quality implication of the discount built into the market price of the GGBs was culpable negligence on the part of the treasurers at the French and German banks. Yes, the Greek Govt was culpable too. But the Greek people are bearing years of economic pain while the French and German banks and the ratings agencies have got off scot free because Merkel & Schauble put the fix in and parked the dodgy GGBs in the ECB.

<comment><USER2> Didn't Greece falsify data for years? That would explain the AAA ratings.

<comment><USER3> Greece has been cooking the books for a long time, even their entrance into the EU was fradulant. Greece is the blame here via its decades of fraud that finally caught up with it. As a Greek-American with an interest in Greece being successful I think all the finger pointing at Wall Street or Germany is asinine. Greece is horribly corrupt and tax dodging is like its national sport. Its like someone turned Chicago into a country. All of its out of control spending, unsustainable union perks, and unrealistic pensions finally caught up with it, just like its happening in Chicago right now. The difference is Chicago and Illinois can raise taxes and make appropriate cuts over the long term, but Greece won't unless strong-armed by Germany and others.

Ultimately, a shared currency with nations with such disparate levels of income and corruption just doesn't work out in real life like it does on paper. Arguably, Greece could have restructured its debt and engaged in inflation with its own currency and handled this much better, but that's not an option when you're wed to the Euro. Personally, I like the idea of the EU, but a shared currency is extremely questionable.

Credit ratings are just that, ratings, not investment advice and like all ratings should be understood to be of limited value. A nation state can hide quite a bit from organizations like Moody's and every election changes leadership, so there's no static "Greece." Instead its a handful of parties fighting for power with different agendas and goals and with differing levels of corruption and incompetence with a baseline being pretty bad to begin with. Heck even senior Moody's staff were warning investors about Greece and its dealings with Goldman[1]. You'd have to be a little thick to think that AAA rating meant no-risk. All investment involves risk.

I suspect the larger economies always saw Greece as their 'little brother' and countries like Germany had a sort of "Well, if we give them money, they'll build industry and catch up to us eventually," instead Greece blew it on pensions for people retiring at 50, questionable social programs, and other unsustainable and unwise spending.

I sense a high level of paternalism in general from other Europeans especially when I'm perceived as a native Greek when in Europe. Sadly, I think everyone would be better off if we were rougher with Greece and instead of seeing it as our tourist-friendly 'little brother,' but instead as our dishonest and thieving neighbor. I hope this current crisis has changed perception and paternalist attitudes in Europe and made everyone think about the limitations a shared currency creates.

[1] [http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/business/global/14debt.htm...](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/business/global/14debt.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0)

In 2008, Goldman helped the bank put the swap into a legal entity called Titlos. But the bank retained the bonds that Titlos issued, according to Dealogic, a financial research firm, for use as collateral to borrow even more from the European Central Bank.

Edward Manchester, a senior vice president at the Moody's credit rating agency, said the deal would ultimately be a money-loser for Greece because of its long-term payment obligations.

Referring to the Titlos swap with the government of Greece, he said: "This swap is always going to be unprofitable for the Greek government."

<comment><USER4> This is a "moral hazard" line of thinking that distracts from the underlying fundamentals of the economics here. Even without the corruption, Greece would eventually be in this situation in the EU because of the structural trade imbalance. Nations like Germany, Sweden, Norway, etc, export far more than they import and do no share the profits. The EU has become a giant capital vacuum cleaner from the poorest nations to the wealthiest. Without fundamental changes to this, the EU is doomed. Greece is just a symptom.

<comment><USER5> Correct, its also worth noting that the US do have mechanisms in place to transfer funds from surplus areas to deficit areas.

<comment><USER6> As does the EU.

<comment><USER7> > As does the EU.

Are you trolling? What kind of mechanism does the EU have? How does Germany have such a high surplus if such a mechanism is in place?!

<comment><USER8> Trade surplus is neither evil nor a problem in itself.

<comment><USER9> Trade surplus without a safety valve (the ability to devalue a currency) is very much a problem since it leads to unsustainable debt buildups.

Germany should be running a trade deficit with the rest of Europe right now but it refuses to.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> It is interesting to note that Varoufakis worked with Valve on the in-game economical systems for Team Fortress 2 and Counter-Strike: Global Offensive before he got pouched by Greece. His blog posts are really interesting. [http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/author/yanis/](http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/author/yanis/) Those in the know about the economies in the mentioned games should agree that Valve probably got a good return on his paycheck.

<comment><USER11> Also of interest is Varoufakis on EconTalk[0] interview in 2013, almost two years before the Greek electoral victory of Syriza and Varoufakis taking the political position of finance minister. You might hear from this interview how Varoufakis looked at Greece's crisis negotiation-position with the EU: that for Greece, similar to the employee-management structure of Valve, there was a lack of hierarchy between peers and only a room full of equals. In that sense and through the Valve-hierarchy of equals lens, much of the tone-deaf rhetoric of Varoufakis towards his peers though the bailout talks can be interpreted with a wider spectrum of sound. Varoufakis, it seems, sincerely thought he would bring "enlightened" new ideas of successful software development management to a negotiation table of frustrated, advantaged, EU financial stalwarts.

[0] [http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2013/02/varoufakis_on_v.htm...](http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2013/02/varoufakis_on_v.html)

<comment><USER12> > Varoufakis, it seems, sincerely thought he would bring "enlightened" new > ideas of successful software development management to a negotiation table > of frustrated, advantaged, EU financial stalwarts.

What he thought (and later stated) was that people would be interested in solutions instead of blaming, finger pointing and political games. He reminds me of a goal-oriented team member versus the team members who want so save their hides at all costs to the detriment of the company.

<comment><USER11> > people would be interested in solutions instead of blaming, finger pointing > and political games.

Would anyone be interested in bureaucratic machinations over solutions? Varoufakis' ex post facto statement sounds bitter and judgemental and to be expected in the face of his failure.

If you listen to his EconTalk episode, you get a sense of an admirable and optimistic person who, when faced with the defensive positioning of EU stalwarts, represented his ideas in a naive and condescending way that denied himself and the Greek people he represented the chance to establish trust and the proper report to begin alternative negotiations in earnest. His economic ideas might be perfectly salient but his self-introduction at the bailout talks did not represent those ideas very well.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Varoufakis is a hero to the international working class. His most recent book before this one is also excellent.

<comment><USER14> Why? What did he do, apart from letting the Greeks believe they could choose not to refund the debt?

<comment><USER15> Morally it's on those who give out loans to make sure that they can be repaid. It's wrong that Greece took these huge loans as well, but also it's wrong to suggest that they have to pay them back. Everyone has the option to default when they are unable to pay and this was clearly the situation for Greece (and probably Spain and Italy, maybe even UK soon enough).

<comment><USER16> And they ARE making sure the debt is going to be repaid.

<comment><USER15> Nope, they will almost certainly default on a large proportion of it.

<comment><USER16> That remains to be seen. Until now, it was quite the opposite.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> The Google Talk about his previous book[1] was very good. You're encouraged to give it a go and make up your own mind on Varoufakis.

[1] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2Zpkz7lK-s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2Zpkz7lK-s)

</comment><comment><USER17> I'm not into conspiracy theories... but Why can't i find anywhere to buy this book in my area in the US, or online?

<comment><USER18> Isn't this it?

[https://www.amazon.com/Adults-Room-Battle-Europes- Establishm...](https://www.amazon.com/Adults-Room-Battle-Europes- Establishment-ebook/dp/B01ICK4IWK/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Grexit blackmail didn't work, so run away and got rich writing books.

</comment><comment><USER8> Varoufakis has always been obsessed with his ego and rock-star status, never with Greece's problems.</comment>


Vim Text Editor is still most widely used, here is how I set it up - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@zafarsaleem/how-i-setup-my-vim-as-modern-text-editor-41a93ca4c7a8 <comment><USER2> Some notes on the setup, ctrl-P and command-T are nicely replaced by fzf nowadays.

I also believe plugins like nerdtree are not alined with the "vim way" of doing things. If you're trying to recreate an IDE you're pulling in the wrong direction. I've found, after some getting used to that having the project tree always visible on the right side is actually not a necessity so there's some valuable horizontal screen real estate to gain here! Have a nice vim voyage

edit: typos

<comment><USER3> Project tree is on the left not right side (for me) and can be toggled on and off. No sense in making things more difficult for some idea of purity but I always like seeing the way others do things because sometimes there are gold nuggets.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> No thank you. It was possible to live vim-free for 30 years. Around 2010 Android phones were so shitty that in Busybox the only viable option was vi. From 2015 onwards you could continue your vim-free life again. But then installing emacs was hard work. Nowadays you can install emacs from regular pkg-management in termux.

<comment><USER2> yes, vim is entirely optional software, nobody is arguing that.</comment></comment>


AAA Study: Driver-Assist Tech Doubles Repair Bills for Minor Collisions - <AUTHOR> http://www.thedrive.com/news/24452/aaa-study-driver-assist-tech-doubles-repair-bills-for-minor-collisions <comment><USER2> But does it half the rate of collisions incurred by the driver of the vehicle with the assist tech?

<comment><USER3> [https://aaafoundation.org/potential-reduction-in-crashes- inj...](https://aaafoundation.org/potential-reduction-in-crashes-injuries-and- deaths-from-large-scale-deployment-of-advanced-driver-assistance-systems/)

They estimate driving assists will reduce crashes by 40%. Reducing injuries by 37% might make up the extra 10% in repair costs.</comment></comment>


New JavaScript code generator in Idris 2 - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/idris-lang/Idris2/pull/415 <comment><USER2> Aside from being an interesting feature, the discussion is a great example of positively encouraging contributions. There's a lot to admire about Edwin Brady: smart, kind, polite, self-effacing, committed. Given the prevalence of acrimony in online discourse - both mainstream and social media - it's always good to be reminded that there are lots of really decent people out there. And anyone who names a language after a dragon in a children's animation[0] gets my vote!

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivor_the_Engine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivor_the_Engine)

<comment><USER3> Well, a lot of the thread is just me fumbling around with Github features.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> If you also didn't know Idris 2 was out, check here [1] for what's new.

[1]. [https://idris2.readthedocs.io/en/latest/updates/updates.html...](https://idris2.readthedocs.io/en/latest/updates/updates.html#sect- new-features)

</comment><comment><USER5> I wonder how much effort would it take to add a rust code generator. I'm guessing we can't add a C code generator because idris seems to need a garbage collector.

<comment><USER6> Haskell used to be compiled to C. (not sure if they still use this backend, I think main GHC backend compiles to LLVM). "Doesn't have garbage collector" is not a good reason not to be able to compile to C, surely garbage collection can be implemented in C.

<comment> iso8859-1 Just because it is possible doesn't mean it's easy. If you implement garbage collection in C, you are using your own garbage collector, the C ecosystem doesn't support you in any way. When people make the argument of preferring a compilation target because it has a specific feature, they are not saying "target is not Turing complete, you can't implement this feature". They say "not natively supported and I would rather not implement this myself".

And no, -fllvm exists, but it is not the default: [https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/8.8.3/docs/html/users_gui...](https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/8.8.3/docs/html/users_guide/codegens.html#llvm- code-generator-fllvm)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Are there any examples of projects in Idris that do something non-trivial and non-academic?

E.g, websites, video games, etc.

<comment><USER8> Jan Corazza has some really great write-ups about writing bindings to SDL and writing a video game in Idris using them. The source is available on Github

[https://flowing.systems/2020/01/13/a-game-in-a-pure- language...](https://flowing.systems/2020/01/13/a-game-in-a-pure-language- part-1-introduction-and-problems-with-idris.html)

[https://flowing.systems/2020/04/13/a-game-in-a-pure- language...](https://flowing.systems/2020/04/13/a-game-in-a-pure-language- part-2-state.html)

[https://github.com/corazza/game-idris](https://github.com/corazza/game-idris)

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I've been interested in Idris for quite awhile, but not sure how to go about learning it. Are there any particularly good resources? Am I expected to know Haskell or is it sufficient to have a few years of experience with FP in general?

<comment><USER10> You should be good to go picking up "Type-driven development with Idris". It's a great book not just for learning Idris but also for hammering down the concept of using types and the compiler as a design pillar if you're not fully used to it.

<comment><USER8> There's even a page in the Idris 2 docs with updates to the book for Idris 2 -- [https://idris2.readthedocs.io/en/latest/typedd/typedd.html](https://idris2.readthedocs.io/en/latest/typedd/typedd.html)

The book is otherwise still totally relevant for Idris 2 and is a great read & introduction to dependent types.</comment></comment></comment>


Oceans and Lakes Are Becoming 'Dead Zones' Again - <AUTHOR> https://undark.org/article/dead-zones-oceans-lakes-coastal-seas/ <comment><USER2> It will never cease to amaze me how we allow farms, factories and power plants to dump millions of gallons of toxic chemicals and fertilizers in the same lakes, rivers and oceans we rely on for food, bathing and drinking water.

Besides the fact that governments allow cancer causing chemicals to flow into our water tables and rivers, humanity is now going to have to deal with the massive repercussions of an ocean that is not capable of supporting the bio mass we rely on for food.

We are quite possibly serving as a solution to the fermi paradox.

<comment><USER3> >an ocean that is not capable of supporting the bio mass we rely on for food.

Honest question, does this just apply to people that eat seafood? For instance, if I have never eaten seafood, is my own personal food source at risk? Of course I should be concerned for people that do rely on seafood, but does the health of the oceans affect the growing of wheat, sugar, beef cattle, Doritos spices, etc.?

<comment><USER4> You don't have your own personal food source. Everything is connected.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Waiting for Netflix to produce a TV show to explain that to the people. [And yes, I really mean it. It is not just sarcasm].

<comment><USER6> Did you see the first comment on the article?

"How about bioengineering. Look up there are chemical trails being sprayed everyday over the globe. And no uprising. We need to collectively say stop enough is enough. Why does everyone care about global warming and not what's happening in your skies, believe you me this is part of the warming, part of the fires in country, as these metallic particles lay atop dry mountain grass, the sun came being magnified causing more chances of fires. Not to mention the habitats eating and breathing this in. Everyone is sick all over out country, it is not a coincidence we are all sick. It's out environment. Its what's being sprayed above you everyday. Just watch the lines. Please."

I like to assume he is joking, but nothing surprises me anymore!

<comment><AUTHOR> Not a joke sadly, just another "Chemtrail" conspiracy theorist. If you really want to dive headfirst into the intersection of the internet and untreated delusional disorders though, google keywords like "Orgone" and "Cloudbusters."

I just try to remind myself that there are probably no more crazy people today than a few decades ago, it's just that everyone has an international megaphone today.

<comment><USER7> Strictly speaking, there are a few billion more people today than a few decades ago. Hence presumably also more crazies.

<comment><AUTHOR> That isn't what I meant, but arguably it is what I said, so thanks for the correction.

<comment><USER7> I know it isn't. But it certainly is a valid consideration re. dying oceans and the whole sorry kaboodle.

The human population of planet Earth has probably slightly more than doubled in my lifetime.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


EFF Pioneer Awards: Aaron Swartz, James Love, Glenn Greenwald, Laura Poitras - <AUTHOR> https://www.eff.org/press/releases/late-digital-rights-activist-international-access-knowledge-advocate-and-nsa-spying

<comment><USER2> This list feels incomplete without Snowden.

<comment><USER3> All such lists are incomplete, does not mean they aren't valuable. The Nobel Prize in physics can't reward every deserving contribution, but I'm still happy it exists.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> This list is incomplete since a lot of Pioneer outside USA are not even mentioned.

<comment> guard-of-terra (non-american here)

EFF is an organization of USA.

They are doing right by preferring to award those they know a lot about, rather than awarding some random people outside USA how it often happens with other local organizations.

Given how most countries' internets converge on USA services it's much more important to acknowledge things that happen in USA.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Apparently this is post is being heavily flagged. For what reason I cannot fathom.</comment>


Why Free Plans Do Work - <AUTHOR> http://www.angrymonkeys.com.au/blog/2010/08/19/why-free-plans-do-work/

<comment><USER2> It sounds from the explanation that was provided that the free users for your product contribute not only to customer acquisition but also create value through their contributions to the site. In this case, free may make sense for your software, as only you can weigh your infrastructure and support costs vs. the gain in marketing and usefulness of the product.

But your experience may not be common to many other businesses. If free users aren't contributing to the product other than marketing, it would come down to a decision of whether or not that goodwill was worth the added cost. It can be hard to measure that cost, but perhaps Twitter Analytics and web referrers can provide an idea.

<comment><USER3> The main point I was probably trying to make with regard to our particular model is that it is a viable alternative to offering a free plan as a trial version. If you're using "free" as a "trial", you're doing it wrong. There are plenty of opportunities to utilize a freemium model without resorting to it being Shareware. Ours is but one example.

Chargify is a great example, as are others that have startup/education plans. The point is that if you want to have free as an option, you should own it and promote it and make it work for you. Having a free option as a subtitle is simply a dumb idea. If you want to charge people, charge them. Don't be half- arsed about it. Having a free plan because you're not sure people will pay is the fastest way to find the unemployment queue.

Most importantly, if you have a free plan, there should be a REASON for having that free plan. Having a free plan is sensible when there is a natural progression to a paid plan (e.g. Chargify), there is benefit to your business by fostering a community (e.g. UsabilityHub) or there is potential to make use of micro-transactions (e.g. Xbox Live). The point is, that there are plenty of options to be explored by all businesses, not just those that leverage the input of the community like we do.</comment></comment>


The Creepy Beauty of VCR Errors - <AUTHOR> https://killscreen.com/articles/vcr-errors/ <comment><USER2> As far as I understand from the description of the technique, these aren't actually VCR/VHS errors - they're RCA line errors:

"To discover his glitch art, Johnson plugs short, repeating videos into an Xbox 360 through its USB port, and then feeds that into a VCR. The output is projected on to an old CRT TV he bought from a thrift store. He then manipulates a frayed RCA cable that runs from the Xbox to the VCR while it's recording in order to interrupt the signal. "The colors tear, images start to warp, and still images start to come alive with organic motion," Johnson says. "I've recently looked into some circuit bending boxes that can be an intermediate between the signal and the recording, but I like the lack of control I have with just jamming some wires together.""

He's using a VCR to capture the resulting distorted video, but another digital device with an RCA input line would work just as well.

<comment><USER3> Before digital cable, cable signals were scrambled in a similar way to prevent pirate receivers.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> VCRs behaved a little odd surrounding pausing. You probably remember back in the day - a paused VCR would show the frame it was paused on, but usually poorly, with some noise, a bit out of alignment.

This is related to the mechanical design of VHS tapes and the player. VCRs use helical scanning. What this means is that each frame of video is recorded on the VHS tape in a linear track that runs diagonally across the tape. Inside the VHS player, you may remember seeing a drum in the back that seems at an off angle. This is the helical read drum: it spins at a very high speed as the tape is pulled around it, and the combination of the slanted head drum spinning and the tape moving along it at a lower speed results in the heads mounted to the drum tracing these diagonal lines on the tape.

The TV draws to the screen continuously, 29.97 times per second, and draws whatever is coming on the analog video input at that moment. So for the image to remain when you have paused the tape, the VCR must continuously play the same frame back to the television. This requires keeping the drum moving and alternating the tape drive (the capstan motor) back and forth very rapidly to try to keep the same helical track aligned with the head over and over. This never quite works right, leaving a noisy signal that often has a bit of a shake as the tracking goes in and out each frame. Additionally, the capstan rapidly switching directions can damage the tape, which is why most VCRs will switch to Stop after being paused for a few minutes.

Laserdiscs had this problem much worse, as there was simply no practical way to get the disc back to the beginning of a frame quickly enough to rescan it. Higher-end laserdisc players could show a freeze-frame, but they did it with an electronic framebuffer that was digitally replayed to the TV. I wonder if there may have been higher-end VCRs with this same technology, but I haven't seen one.

<comment><USER5> Consumer VCRs are very complex and are modern mechanical marvels. It's amazing they work at all, let alone so reliably.

<comment><USER6> You're certainly not the only one who admires them for what they are.

[https://youtu.be/-z4iw8Ppo1o](https://youtu.be/-z4iw8Ppo1o)

<comment><USER5> The comment in there by Alen Lecher is pure gold.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Back in 2003, me and some mates set the Guinness World Record for non-stop movie watching (we clocked in at 'only' 63 hours and 27 minutes, but that was enough for the record back then). The rules set by the Guinness Book were long and quite specific, but didn't have a provision for 'technology failure'.

DVDs obviously existed back then, but most stores were still a mix of them and VHS (plus the occasionaly Laserdisc Pocket, futilely seeking a return on investment). We opted to go through all the movies on VHS - basically, a DVD fail was often 'all or nothing' while a VHS tape might scroll or stutter (and indeed, 58 hours in the machine overheated and gave us no visuals for a few scary minutes) but they would usually keep rolling and come good.

Now of course it's all digital, and my wonderful VHS collection taunts me every time I step into my office as I convert them one-by-one.

</comment><comment><USER5> I have had enough of decaying VHS tapes and dirty VHS heads to not particularly appreciate that form of art :-)

<comment><USER8> What is the likelihood that millions of people across the globe have worthless VHS tapes due to decay, and worthless VHS players too?

One can only wonder -- will we notice before it's too late?

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Aren't we over this visual effect yet? I renember a few years ago every hipster with a 5D was using this effect to give their work the affect of authenticity. It ma be interesting technically, but the overuse has made it far from beautiful or compelling.

<comment><USER10> I don't think overuse is the limiter on beauty or compellingness. I think an artistic medium only has two requirements:

1) an output space that is vastly larger than could be exhaustively explored on human timescales

2) the proportion of the output space that can be quickly accessed by an artist can be increased through practice.

Many glitches score poorly on one or both of these... Often additional practice with the glitch does not increase the artist's ability to address larger portions of the output space. A completely random glitch would be the worst case scenario there.

But many glitches do fulfill both requirements, and there's no reason those couldn't be used to creat great art.

<comment><USER11> That's a neat analysis of what makes an artistic medium interesting! Did you come up with that breakdown?

<comment><USER10> Yeah... I spent some time pondering why people respect the violin more than synthesizers.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I'm interested in what makes these glitches "creepy"\--is it possible to develop some criteria that all of these glitches satisfy? I'm reminded of the photograph distortions (e.g. [https://thatwasabitmental.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/ringu1...](https://thatwasabitmental.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/ringu1.jpg)) shown in the 1998 horror movie Ringu (which coincidentally has much of its plot dedicated to a VHS tape). How does such a simple blurring effect manage to do so much?

<comment><USER13> Like it says in the article, the uncanny valley is a large part of it. Your brain gets spooked by things that look almost but not quite right. Like a cat barking, or a face with no features.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Garage sales. You need a VCR, a CRT tv, some tapes. Everything well-used and crufty. Getting scarce but they do show up. Maybe look for "estate sale" signs, you're more likely to find these things when relatives are clearing out an elderly person's house.

<comment><USER15> Any Goodwill or thrift store will have 2 or 3 sitting around for $5.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> I'm fascinated by this because it's one of those things I don't fully understand. If I had to recreate it, I wouldn't know where to begin.</comment>


Ask HN: What programming language would you choose to build a search engine? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> On what scale?

I ask because, although this is more a matter of architecture, there are excellent languages for small/mid scale or even larger scale search engines in Java (Lucene and upwards, Solr, etc projects that use it).

For a small embedded search engine, you could get by with just something like Sqlite and some reverse indexes.

For Google scale, it mostly depends on architecture and infrastructure than language. Java, Rust, C++, Go will all do fine for example.

</comment><comment><USER3> Building one right now, C#, SQL, Lucene.NET. It's not really a search engine, but my bookmarks organized into a public site that works like a search engine. I put my bookmarks into it and others can search it.

</comment><comment><USER4> I'm the creator and owner of BestInternetSearch.com and it's written in Python and 100% opensource, there's a link at the top right of the website that's links to the source code on Github.</comment>


SEO Toolbox for Everyone - <AUTHOR> http://indataly.com/#hackernews

<comment><USER2> You might find my articles helpful: [http://www.warplife.com/tips/webmaster/](http://www.warplife.com/tips/webmaster/)</comment>


EU launches probe into Google-Fitbit takeover - <AUTHOR> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53647570 <comment><USER2> > /.../ Analysts suggested part of the attraction for Google was the fact that > Fitbit had formed partnerships with several insururers /.../

This is THE most problematic part.

I am trying to make people understand this match made in hell for last 20 years and it has finally started to happen.

People will finally start to pay for their open sharing of their lifestyle and this is just the beginning.

Really, really bad.

<comment><USER3> There are already insurers which offer incentives to employees who exercise as tracked by their smartwatch. Vitality UK does this [1].

On the face of it, this doesn't seem _terrible_. It encourages people to stay active. So far it seems to be limited to an airmiles-type scheme where you can get bonuses like Amazon Prime for free if you meet certain fitness targets. With Vitality you would need 5.3 points a day (160/month) - you get 5 points for 10k steps so you actually have to exceed that every day.

The problem with these systems is that the incentives are poor relative to the amount of effort you need to put in. Amazon Prime is nice, but it's valuing you exercising _daily_ at around £8/month. If you can afford Vitality in the UK, either you're already well-off or you work for a company which can afford it. Why not offer free fitness club membership if you go regularly?

The other issue is that tracking workouts sometimes fails, and you lose your bonus. That sucks and it's an easy way to lose people who can't be bothered to put in extra effort to make up it (for the sake of £8, for example).

Probably we'll go to the automotive model (black box trackers). Some insurers will offer lower premiums to people who can demonstrate they're healthy, others might refuse people who don't submit their data, and others will charge a bit extra, but not require it.

Be careful viewing this with a US lens. In Europe even in countries like Switzerland where you need private "public" health insurance there are strict minimum requirements. Insurers can't refuse you for pre-existing conditions, there are mandatory caps on premiums/deductibles and certain expensive treatments like cancer therapy must be included. Most people don't need health insurance because it's provided through the state.

[1] [https://www.vitality.co.uk/rewards/partners/active- rewards/](https://www.vitality.co.uk/rewards/partners/active-rewards/)

<comment><USER4> Of course this is terrible. Adults are being increasingly ordered around by devices and get grades from Google, insurers, banks and probably the government if things continue in this manner.

The industry in Europe pushes for adults being treated like schoolchildren. In Germany the polite form "Sie" (you) is universally replaced by "du" (thou), which formerly was reserved for children and friends.

Websites are infantilising people with their cuddly pre-school logos and childlike names.

<comment><USER5> I don't see it, "adults being treated like schoolchildren" seems melodramatic when it could just as easily be called precision insurance. Why should the customers who go out of their way to maintain a healthy lifestyle have to pay the same rate as the ones who just watch streams and game all day?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Google's mission statement: To organize the world's information and make it universally accessible and useful.

Google concerning Fitbit: For its part, Google has explicitly denied its motivation is to control more data.

<comment><USER7> > For its part, Google has explicitly denied its motivation is to control more > data.

According to the article they made the same promise about Nest, but have begun "asking" users to merge their logs.

<comment><USER8> *merge their logins

Nest heavily prefers using a Google account now and integrates with using a Google Home's "household" members for giving access to your nest home.

<comment><USER9> I just moved into a new house where the previous owner left behind (installed) a bunch of Nest Protect smoke alarms. I looked into putting them on my own account, but found two really lame issues:

1) They don't support GSuite accounts, and Google Home doesn't support linking other accounts when your main account is a GSuite account, and

2) They've shut down all API access to them (people still on old Nest accounts are grandfathered in... for now), so even if I did manage to set it up on a separate non-GSuite Google account, I wouldn't be able to monitor them with openHAB.

I do like them, especially how it warns vocally shortly before it's about to go off, so I can preemptively temp-disable it before it deafens everyone just because I'm cooking and forgot to turn the hood fan on. And the motion- activated nightlight is perfect (there's one in my bedroom right near the entrance to the bathroom). But Google's product support strategy here really makes me uncomfortable, so I'll probably end up replacing them.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> To what degree does the EC actually get a say in this? These are both American companies, so presumably the commission cannot block the acquisition.

Wouldn't this be more like saying "if you do this, we will make things painful for you"? Am I completely missing something here?

<comment><USER11> Presumably Google and/or Fitbit operating within the European Union depends on compliance with European law. So choosing to disregard the EU's decision on the matter could blow apart a large part of an international business.

My guess is Google/Fitbit could only proceed without the EU's approval if Fitbit stopped operating in Europe and deleted all Europeans' data.

<comment><USER12> So all the European consumers who bought a Fitbit can be screwed?

<comment><USER11> Arguably: All European customers who bought a Fitbit are likely screwed anyways, Google has a poor history with supporting acquired product lines. While I am irritated about my data being acquired, personally, I'd also recommend against anyone buying a Fitbit while this acquisition is in flux, as Google might choose to terminate service to devices shortly post-acquisition anyways. And privacy loss is a harm as well.

In short, this acquisition is already harming everyone, and the EU is trying to prevent the most consumer harm.

<comment><USER13> *Google has a poor history with supporting acqui-hired product lines.

I think most of the terminated services were fairly predictable (i.e. North)

<comment><USER11> We have no idea what Google's endgame for Fitbit is. Keep Fitbit OS or shove Android Wear on the brand? Focus on the Fitbit app or push everyone to Google Health.

Without knowing this, there's no safe bet in buying a Fitbit right now.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I moved off of fitbit when the deal was announced. The volume of data google collects on users is terrifying. Glad to see this is getting looked at with more scrutiny.

<comment><USER15> Genuinely curious, what personal consequences do you see for yourself due to Google acquiring Fitbit that would prompt you to avoid their devices? While I can understand the sentiment, this seems unnecessarily paranoid.

<comment><USER11> In my case, I've spent over five years working on relieving Google of data about me. I'm not about to give them more.

Paranoia claims suggest unfounded concerns but Google's misuse of private information is well known.

<comment><USER16> > Google's misuse of private information is well known.

The accusations are certainly well known ([https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_concerns_regarding_G...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_concerns_regarding_Google)).

Whether anything here constitutes misuse is a matter of both personal opinion (yours being very well known of course given your thoughts and comments about Google) as well as various laws but that doesn't make any of it a universally accepted truth or standard.

In my case I'm much more worried about security than privacy, and far more willing to trade off the privacy (more targeted ads) for the increased security - Google's infrastructure is way more likely to be properly secured vs. Joe Random wearables startup, or even Garmin, as a recent example...

<comment><USER11> Security also depends on your threat model: Who are you worried about accessing your data. (Privacy and security are actually two sides of the same coin.) You do not want hackers accessing your data, because they do bad things with it. I also don't want Google accessing my data, because they do bad things with it. Google uses data to harm competitors (of which I am not, thankfully) and people who speak ill of them[0] (which... yeah) so I should probably be pretty concerned about them knowing much about me.

[0] [https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/07/31/google-...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/07/31/google- accused-antitrust-retaliation/)

<comment><USER17> The temporary removal of that app (its back now) had nothing to do with retaliation. I have a hard time believing that Google leadership would be that stupid.

See [https://www.androidauthority.com/blue-mail-play- store-114347...](https://www.androidauthority.com/blue-mail-play- store-1143477/)

<comment><USER11> Obviously, Google isn't going to admit that it did it out of retaliation, but an app doesn't get dropped for having "similarities to another mail app" after six years, two days after it's known they're speaking to Congress about Google's antitrust abuses. That takes an incredible stretch of the imagination.

This is called an "oops". Mozilla is well aware of how Google "accidentally" harms other companies repeatedly to gain an advantage: [https://www.zdnet.com/article/former-mozilla-exec-google- has...](https://www.zdnet.com/article/former-mozilla-exec-google-has- sabotaged-firefox-for-years/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I really don't see how Fitbit offers a 'data advantage' in superiority to something like Youtube

<comment><USER19> It's not superior, it's just a different type of data.

With Fitbit you also get heart rate, active times (gym, sports), combined with the optional phone-enabled location you can know person X goes to gym Y twicer per week and spends 1 hour doing HIIT. You can also get data such as sleeping hours, sleep patterns, at what floor a person lives or works (if he climbs the stairs).

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Can they probe why this takeover hasn't resulted in a decent Google-branded smartwatch yet? I'd really love a competitor to the Apple watch for Android, but there isn't anything that really comes close.

</comment><comment><USER9> As much as I am 100% skeptical of any Google acquisition (either they screw it up, neglect it, or shut it down), I was at least hoping that the Fitbit app would finally get Google Fit integration.

</comment><comment><USER21> >"We appreciate the opportunity to work with the European Commission on an approach that addresses consumers' expectations of their wearable devices"

I mean, there is "corporate talk" but this is on another level.

<comment><USER22> Is that ... bad?

It's just acknowledging the situation, beyond that it's not deceptive or anything IMO.

<comment><USER23> It's like a person saying:

"I'm happy that the IRS has selected me for audit. I am eager to assist them in their efforts to evaluate whether I have committed a wrongdoing. I love spending money on lawyers."

<comment><USER22> I think it's more just of an acknowledgment.

I don't know what folks want in a news bit about this 'OH WOE IS ME?!?!'

<comment><USER23> It is the "we appreciate" part that is disingenuous. The honest answer would be more along the lines of "We have done nothing wrong and are confident that any investigation with exonerate us of wrongdoing." That's the sort of thing a defendant's lawyer says on the courthouse steps.

<comment><USER24> That's communicating something different from what they intend. Your statement implies a default position of combativeness, while theirs states that they're open to some degree of regulation:

> on an approach that addresses consumers' expectations of their wearable > devices

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> EU: Google must sell their EU operations to SAP or we'll ban them by September 15th.

</comment><comment><USER26> Just some food for thought: Apple Watch captures heart data. As per local regulators, it cannot warn about certain conditions if their device/analysis wasn't cleared.

But it doesn't mean they don't have the corresponding data.

Edit: as per comments, Apple Watch data is encrypted. But fitbit data isn't

<comment><USER27> I thought all Health data was kept on-device with Apple platforms. Wasn't that the point of the secure enclave they introduced a good few years ago?

<comment><USER28> It seems that by default it's synced through iCloud: [https://support.apple.com/HT204351](https://support.apple.com/HT204351) They say it's 'end-to-end encryption', but I don't see how that's possible?

<comment><USER29> The data is encrypted and requires an on-device key to unlock it, Apple doesn't have the key[0]. If you lose a device, the data can also be decrypted via a device's passcode + 2FA. (Or, alternatively, without 2FA, you make up another key that is needed to access the data)[1]

[0]: [https://support.apple.com/guide/security/cloudkit-end-to- end...](https://support.apple.com/guide/security/cloudkit-end-to-end- encryption-sec3cac31735/1/web/1)

[1]: [https://support.apple.com/guide/security/icloud-keychain- rec...](https://support.apple.com/guide/security/icloud-keychain-recovery- secdeb202947/1/web/1)

<comment><USER30> If they can decrypt the data if you lose the device, it by definition do not require an on-device only key. That is, Apple do have the key outside the device.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> I did an interview with the FitBit reps at the last CES. And what they described to me was truly Orwellian. The company's big push is in the B2B offerings, all based on constant monitoring and the big data. Health insurance? Put FitBit on to monitor employees exercise levels and activities. Workplace safety? Put FitBit on. Heart rate data and arrhythmias? They already monitor and they are working on more. They even have a sleep score monitoring. And so on, and so forth...

From our writeup: "So what are the benefits for companies and insurance firms? Fitbit Health Solutions (FHS) provides a platform that offers insights and guidance to make employees healthier. But the benefits go beyond health. The FHS platform can improve productivity, reduce on-job stress and accidents, detect causes of absenteeism, and improve job participation.

The company has already released a premium membership subscription for enterprises and customers, especially since the release of its Versa 2 watch."

[https://www.medgadget.com/2020/02/fitbit-health-solutions- in...](https://www.medgadget.com/2020/02/fitbit-health-solutions-interview- with-amy-mcdonough-gm-and-senior-vp.html)

</comment><comment><USER32> Quote: "In response, the tech giant said it would cooperate with the process.

"We appreciate the opportunity to work with the European Commission on an approach that addresses consumers' expectations of their wearable devices," blogged Google's devices chief Rick Osterloh."

Let me translate that, for those who don't read between lines yet, as I am fluent in corporate BS lately due to a project I'm involved. Here it goes the translation:

"We're giving exactly zero f __*s about your inquiry, and we will do 100% to actually BS you all the way to December, while making you look good in front of your European constituents. Also we 'll definitely try to bribe anyone in your committee if, by mistake, they actually will try to do their job."</comment>


Effective Cryptography in the JVM - <AUTHOR> https://tersesystems.com/2015/10/05/effective-cryptography-in-the-jvm/ <comment><USER2> Excellent post. I was curious about how to do this properly but always got scared off by the fear of having to actually write my own crypto code. It's a pity it's not maintained better by Google. Maybe the EFF will get behind it...

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you fsargent. You are a scholar and a gentleman.</comment></comment>


Amazon Redshift data lake export: share data in Apache Parquet format - <AUTHOR> https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/12/announcing-amazon-redshift-data-lake-export/ <comment><USER2> seems backwards in my mind...

build data lake first. perfect schema. then load into redshift</comment>


Ask HN: How do I self learn psychology? - <AUTHOR> Interesting thought I came across recently : "If you are building a business (which is for humans to use obviously), you'll have an unfair advantage knowing about human psychology"<p>If I am to start learning about human behaviour, where should I be starting and what path should I be taking? <comment><USER2> Here's what I liked, science from an experienced practitioner and teacher. The 2017 lectures on the Five factor model of personality:

[https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL22J3VaeABQApSdW8X71I...](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL22J3VaeABQApSdW8X71Ihe34eKN6XhCi)

Also Never split the difference by Chris Voss for negotiating, practical psychology.

</comment><comment><USER3> Hi,

You can start by learning about yourself. This article here [https://leveragethoughts.substack.com/p/three-actionable- ins...](https://leveragethoughts.substack.com/p/three-actionable-insights-to- improve) can set you on your path.

Thanks

</comment><comment><USER4> Are you trying to learn just business-relevant psychology? Or psychology in general?

<comment><AUTHOR> Psychology in general for start

<comment><USER4> I'd start with [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology) And [https://psychology.wikia.org/wiki/Psychology_Wiki](https://psychology.wikia.org/wiki/Psychology_Wiki) As frameworks and quick references to concepts. I'd go over an introductory psychology textbook, if you go deeper preferably a biopsychology or neuropsychology book. You need to def know the material conditions which can only be gotten doing a bit of the life science part on the nervous system and (breach psychiatry) while doing it get some understanding of drug effects and what they aim to do and actually do) but really that might be going to deep into medical application side. Ultimately you might consider just above links and maybe some sources on therapy types and behavioral psych. It can be steep and a deep end into pharmaco or cognitive science parts imo.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Understand the basics of evolution and incentives.

Favorite books for practical psychology - Thinking Fast and Slow, How to win friends and influence people.

</comment><comment><USER6> _Psychology_ by Bernstein, Penner, Clarke-Stewart, and Roy is an approachable, comprehensive introduction.

</comment><comment><USER7> You should start by starting a business it will teach you all you need to know about psychology .... and some more :) I'm doing business and psychology/self development for the last 7 years and unfortunately, the idea of being good at business because somebody is good at understanding human behavior has huge flaws.

</comment><comment><USER8> Read history, and see what humans do over and over and over again.

</comment><comment><USER9> Check out Sapolsky's human behavior lectures on YouTube.</comment>


Moot, Heiferman, Shirky, Champ &  Schachter talk online communities  - <AUTHOR> http://www.atroundtable.com

<comment><USER2> It would be nice it the date and time of the roundtable was on it.

<comment><AUTHOR> Ah, good catch, Thanks! It will start during the week of the 26th and last one week!

<comment><USER3> From the context, I thought this was going to be some sort of live event, maybe conducted by webcam, maybe happening right now. You should explain how your roundtable works.

<comment><AUTHOR> Great feedback. We're working on adding a description now. The discussion is asynchronous and typically lasts 3-5 days. Users will be able follow the conversation as it unfolds and engage with it and other users in a number of ways. Please keep the feedback and suggestions coming! And if you have any ideas for features shoot me a note at firstname.lastname@example.com... enjoy the weekend!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Looks legit. Good thing you added a female btw

</comment><comment><USER5> whee!</comment>


Emerging Languages camp - day 2 - <AUTHOR> http://olabini.com/blog/2010/07/emerging-languages-camp-day-2/ <comment><USER2> Anyone know what the correct result is for the Interval Arithmetic example? I coded it in five environments and got 1.172604, -.8273960599468214, 1.17260394005318, 2.62722e39, and 1.17260394.

So the consensus is 1.172 etc., but I'm guessing based on the article that despite consensus it's wrong.

<comment><USER3> The right answer is -54767/66192, so whichever program said -.827 is probably right.

There was a good discussion on the list: [http://groups.google.com/group/emerginglangs/browse_thread/t...](http://groups.google.com/group/emerginglangs/browse_thread/thread/482102d7c00ae528#)

Basically if your language uses floats by default then it will get that challenge wrong, and if it uses fractions or arbitrary-precision decimals, then it'll get it right.

<comment><USER2> Ha!, funny -- the environments I used were:

      Revolution
      FileMaker Pro
      Numbers
      J -- my J is weak and rusty, so it's probably my fault
      Excel

So the database wins.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I almost didn't catch the typo:

> To get performance that is acceptable to Rich Clojure, data structures are > not implemented using purely immutable data structures (Okasaki style) from > the Java side.

For the record, I think that is _adorable_.</comment>


What are other places to find new products and code repositories like HN? - <AUTHOR> Hi friends.
The best part of HN are the curated Show HN posts and the open source repositories for projects I often use myself or in my business.
Are there other places that have similar posts? Possibly github itself...although I'm not sure how  to find new ones relevant to me.
Thanks and stay safe :) <comment><USER2> Here's one...[https://techurls.com/](https://techurls.com/) Try a search for `code aggregator' or similar. Here's help on Wikipedia... [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=aggregator&title...](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=aggregator&title=Special%3ASearch&fulltext=Search&ns0=1)</comment>


The Enduring Enigma of Costco's $1.50 Hot Dog and Soda Combo - <AUTHOR> http://mentalfloss.com/article/547020/costco-150-hot-dog-soda-combo-enigma <comment><USER2> While the article starts with a "we're losing money on these" anecdote, the article does _not_ say that they're losing money in terms of selling the combo below cost. They are selling it for less than the market will bear, but that also applies to the rotisserie chickens ($5/3lb vs grocery stores at 2lb).

If it makes you feel better, think of the lost $0.50-$2 as being silently charged to their marketing budget behind the scenes with the money never actually flowing through Costco.

Edit: if you look into the economics of rotisserie chickens, I believe you'll find that Costco is actually making a nice profit on them despite the relative low cost vs competitors.

<comment><USER3> > but that also applies to the rotisserie chickens ($5/3lb vs grocery stores > at 2lb).

It's a common myth that rotisserie chickens are cheaper than frozen. If you do the math you'll find that rotisserie chickens are slightly more expensive.

See: [https://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/pywretailchicken.pdf](https://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/pywretailchicken.pdf)

> Rotisserie, Under 2lb, Norwest cost is $5.73/lb on average

<comment><USER4> I think they meant that costco sells a 3lb rotisserie at 5 dollars while most stores sell a 2lb at $5. Which mean Costco's Rotisserie is 50% or 67% (depending which way you want to calculate it) cheaper.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> One of my gripes about this price point is that they downgraded the buns they use with their hot dogs a few years ago. They used to be these tasty, substantial picnic rolls, but now they're bland and bready. I'd happily pay a few cents more to get the better buns.

The real kicker is that if you look at the photo of the hotdogs in their food courts (in SoCal, at least), the photos are of the old, picnic style buns and NOT what they are serving today - a bait-and-switch (bake-and-switch?) if you ask me...

<comment><USER6> The buns are declining in quality... you have to ask for the free toppings now (like onions and sourkraut which were always kept in the condiments counter until a year or two ago). They are now kept in carefully measured tiny plastic containers completely void from view. And the quality of the "meat" inside has dropped off a cliff in recent years.

I don't enjoy them at all anymore, where as I used to go into Costco sometimes just to get their hotdogs.

It's not the same $1.50 hotdog when they change literally everything about it.

<comment><USER7> Wasn't there some thing about people making massive plates of "kimchi" with those free condiments?

<comment><USER8> The kids here use the same cup for soda refills for years or until it disintigrates, or the faded colors or outdated color scheme gives the little punks away.

<comment><USER6> Little punks? Stealing soda? They could do worse...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> > When California recently enacted a soft drink tax that would have raised the > consumer's cost, Costco locations in the state switched the combo to include > Diet Pepsi.

The link supporting this claim refers to changes in San Francisco and Seattle locations as a result of city ordinances, not a statewide change in California.

<comment><USER10> Why dont they just remove the sugar from the syrup and offer packets or liquid syrup in containers like at coffee shops?

<comment><USER11> With dry table sugar, at least, it would be a lot of work. A large Coke from McDonald's has about 70 grams of sugar* and a typical sugar packet contains 2.8 grams. You'd need to stir in _twenty five_ packets to get to the standard recipe level of sweetness.

*Equivalent amount of table sugar (sucrose)--the syrup may use high fructose corn syrup instead.

Edit: on further reflection, we should do this. It's a much more vivid illustration of how much sugar we consume through soda than an abstract calorie number.

<comment><USER10> Also packets can be made larger.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> "Enigma"

It's called a loss leader.

<comment><USER13> Well, if they were actually losing money on it, it would be a loss leader.

But since the actual cost of the dog, bun, cup, soda, paper plate, napkins, condiments, labor and depreciation comes in under $1.50, it's not a loss. It's just money left on the table.

Except -- it probably isn't. Costco isn't really a restaurant, it's a store which carries a limited number of high-value items packaged in bulk. The hot dogs (and the other low-priced food up front) are a form of complementary good, which more than pays for itself by enticing people to come in on their lunch breaks and shop for fifteen to thirty more minutes than they would if they had to stop for fast food somewhere else. And it keeps kids quiet when the parents want to spend more time there.

Department stores have repeatedly rediscovered the utility of having a decent food option available on-premises - Neiman Marcus, Macy's, Ikea.

<comment><USER14> It's absolutely a text book loss leader. A loss leader doesn't need to be sold below cost, only below its minimum profit margin.

Leaving money on the table is effectively losing money.

<comment><USER15> I think you've said two different things here.

> A loss leader doesn't need to be sold below cost, only below its minimum > profit margin.

I think that's an important point, in that you're saying that it's incorrect to consider only the cost of ingredients, rather than the entire cost of delivery (including cooking, labor, etc.).

On the other hand, as the parent pointed out, they're not a restaurant, so their "minimum profit margin" _for this particular activity_ is zero.

As such, they can afford to do it, at whatever volume, indefinitely.

> Leaving money on the table is effectively losing money.

This is the different thing, since it has to do with what the market will bear and not with what it costs them.

The distinction is important because a business can, by this definition, "effectively lose money" while still making a profit. That's good enough for some people.

<comment><USER13> It's not "effectively" losing money. It's losing imaginary money.

If you want to see an actual loss leader, go to a grocery story in mid- November. They'll sell you a frozen turkey for (depending on competition) 20 to 50 cents a pound. Wholesale cost will be 80 cents to $1.20 a pound. They take an actual loss on the turkey in order to get you in the store where you will buy three times your usual weekly grocery budget in special holiday foods -- all of which are marked up more than they will be right after Thanksgiving.

If selling at less than the market is willing to pay but more than what covers your total costs is a "loss leader", then every sale to attract customers is a "loss leader" and the term has no useful meaning.

<comment><USER15> > It's not "effectively" losing money. It's losing imaginary money.

Well, to be fair, the money is real (or at least potentially real). It's the loss that's imaginary.

> then every sale to attract customers is a "loss leader" and the term has no > useful meaning.

Agreed. We already have the word "sale" (or "discount" or "promotion") without using the inaccurate word "loss".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> So (I assume) this is where IKEA got the idea from, with their $1.5 hotdog in the exit of every store.

Someone even made a comparison! [1]

[1]: [https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/review-it-costco-hot-dog- vs-...](https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/review-it-costco-hot-dog-vs-ikea-hot- dog/)

<comment><USER17> So I just had to Google this.

According to [https://newsroom.inter.ikea.com/news/ikea-develops-a- veggie-...](https://newsroom.inter.ikea.com/news/ikea-develops-a-veggie-hot- dog-for-the-ikea-bistro/s/fa6dd766-e889-4439-970c-897d554e1d89)

"The hot dog at IKEA has a long history: In 1981, and true to his vision for IKEA to be affordable for the many, Ingvar Kamprad set the price of the IKEA hot dog at 5 Swedish Krona – which was half price compared to competitors in Sweden at that that time. It was the beginning of the success story of the IKEA hot dog that today is served at IKEA all over the world."

So, Ikea Sweden introduced a hot dog priced at 5 SEK in 1981. (The USD was super cheap at that time; my best guess is that this corresponded to like $0.90.)

According to Costco themselves, their hot dog enterprise started in 1984:

[http://www.costcoconnection.com/connection/200903/?u1=texter...](http://www.costcoconnection.com/connection/200903/?u1=texterity&pg=25#pg25)

Myself: I don't think IKEA in Sweden were even on the radar for these Costco people in San Diego in 1984. I don't think they "copied" this concept.

But it's safe to say that IKEA did not got this idea from Costco.

Interestingly, the price for a hot dog at IKEA in Sweden is still 5 SEK, 37 years later.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> It's also interesting how they design the warehouses to place the unnecessary items in the front (where you are excited to shop) and the essentials at the back (where you might be more hesitant to pick up anything). They also sometimes reduce prices on memorable items to induce the sense of affordability for the whole store.

</comment><comment><USER19> "Enduring Enigma" seems like a grandiose way to describe a loss-leader marketing gimmick, good for Costco for suckering bored writers though.

</comment><comment><USER20> TL;DR: It's a sales driver.

</comment><comment><USER21> Technical Aside: Just by scrolling through the article mentalfloss.com flooded my history, making it impossible to use the back button. "Neat"

<comment><USER22> It also disables reader mode in Safari.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> Cumberland Farms doesn't cost much different. Hotdogs are about the cheapest possible meat, and fountain soda costs nothing, effectively.

My dark secret is that I absolutely love gas station hot dogs. Especially at old country stores that have a steamer loaded with red hotdogs on one side and the buns on the other.

</comment><comment><USER24> > When California recently enacted a soft drink tax that would have raised the > consumer's cost, Costco locations in the state switched the combo to include > Diet Pepsi.

What are they going to switch to when the state enacts a hot dog tax? Or a fat tax? Or a preservative tax? Or a disposable cup tax?

<comment><USER25> While we're at it, let's add a sugar tax, high-fructose corn syrup tax, fried food tax, GMO-food tax, extra car taxes,poor-taste book tax, and a bad-movie- tax. Hopefully this will force people to do what I damn-well know they should be doing, and make them run their lives better than they could themselves.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> It is not unlike Prime Video and Prime Music (among others). When you run a membership program you create offers that increase the perceived value of the membership and engagement with your ecosystem. Similar is Costco gas, people wouldn't drive out of their way for the discount if they didn't already pay the membership. And while you are there you might as well pick up four times the bread you need, more milk than you consume in a week, a new camera (that was probably cheaper online), and a hot dog on your way out. Getting the value out of that $100 membership leads people to consume far more than they normally would.

<comment><USER27> Your examples don't makes sense, as bread and milk (which Costco sells as multi-packs) keep fine in storage. Buying perishables and junk food would be a better example.

Costco electronics prices are competitive and have the best return policy and practice in the industry.

<comment><USER28> In what world does milk "keep fine in storage"?

<comment><USER29> The modern world. Milk no longer goes bad quickly.

<comment><USER22> I guess it depends on the definition of "quickly" and also where you live.

In some cities I've lived, the expiration date of milk was often two or three weeks out. In other cities, it was 10 days maximum.

I think it's because dairies (and cows) are not equally plentiful in every part of the country.

One thing I have noticed is that in the places where regular milk expires in 10 days, the organic milk (which one family member drinks) doesn't expire for a month or more.

<comment><USER4> Sell by dates are basically a fiction. [https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsis/topics/food- safety...](https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsis/topics/food-safety- education/get-answers/food-safety-fact-sheets/food-labeling/food-product- dating/food-product- dating/!ut/p/a1/jVFhT8IwEP014wvZemNIhslilkUDKENClLEvpmPt1qRbZ9uh89dbRD5oQOmlyd3ru9x7V5SiBKU13rECayZqzPd1OnqBJYzccQSzxdi9g2n8vFzcRxH4qytD2PxBiL0L-8-cEP7rn10wYCDn0bxAaYN1abOaCpQURNu4Vm9EKpRQIXJbYUp0Z1O81bYqCdHHB44zwlldfJeNFHlrOLlZ0TlwjdKfssA1MY291XAyiz1YDH8TTuztQDi_GOO84CL7-qRNWGeebyxKQokk0mmlgUutG3VtgQWtyrEiWG5LZ586hdhZcABuWk39wHJvB5ZRYq7Xw5QyzrAmAVVM9V5bIrtAEc77Wdc3FklvK6qKaec9gGPaBXBKRymURsmJ8aipnpKPh3AC7LFa- yr8BPx8HRI!/#3)

only limitation is: infant formula and false advertising (defined in [https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/9/317.8](https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/9/317.8) )</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: Zoomable Map of Amazon Products - <AUTHOR> http://amazon.q1000.ro <comment><USER2> Where are the products being pulled in from? I started to dive into some of the files but maybe I'm missing an API connection somewhere:

Files: \- [http://amazon.q1000.ro/js/start.js](http://amazon.q1000.ro/js/start.js) \- [http://amazon.q1000.ro/js/code.js](http://amazon.q1000.ro/js/code.js) \- [http://amazon.q1000.ro/data/amazon/config.txt](http://amazon.q1000.ro/data/amazon/config.txt) \- [http://amazon.q1000.ro/data/amazon/resources.txt](http://amazon.q1000.ro/data/amazon/resources.txt)</comment>