Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets - <AUTHOR> http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/8/13881930/microsoft-turn-a-phone-into-a-pc-arm-continuum <comment><USER2> Microsoft are telling us this. When they deliver it I'll believe it.

As a Microsoft focused developer for 22 years and a windows phone user, everything still feels like its held together by sticky tape and string at the moment. It works but inconsistency and sometimes show stopping failures just ruin it. As an example, Windows 10 Mail just stopped working for me for 11 hours throwing an update settings notification loop on two devices. No fast ring here; only the stable releases. Edge is all marketing and is slow and clunky as fuck still.

This is daily friction which kills the platform. They need to focus on quality before promising features.

<comment><USER3> Were the background images always there in Windows 10 mail? It honestly looks like an amateur access app from the 90's.

<comment><USER4> I enthusiastically started using windows mail when I switched to win8, and then discovered that file attachments were severely broken. They disappear from emails over time, and rather than fix the problem, it was suggested that we move a message from one IMAP folder to another to make them reappear. I wonder if they seriously thought anyone would put themselves through that.

That said, I am still a windows phone user. Yeah, there are no apps (even less these days, amazon and ebay actually pulled theirs from the store) but the UI is so neat, and i like to think having fewer apps makes me more productive.

<comment><USER2> Whilst bitching heavily about it earlier, I've got to be honest here. If they fix the people, mail and calendar app bugs, which they are doing rapidly, it destroys Apple and Google's offerings. I've only used them with an outlook.com and office 365 account so far but it really has potential. Just please Microsoft, don't screw it all up and feature dump too hard!

For reference I went on a six month long hiatus after using Android for about two years and getting shafted by zero updates, via a Nokia dumb phone and now to WP, which was where I was before the android handset. Android on a mid range handset is a disaster worthy of it's own rant in a more appropriate thread. My wife is always complaining about her iPhone 6s random problems like audio disappearing and suddenly getting random impossible to delete stuff appear in her calendar from emails and the inability to easily move music around. There's an opportunity to kill this friction.

As for app culture, screw it. When I had a dumb Nokia I learned that it pays to use a proper computer for anything serious so I run the phone as a music player, a phone and casual email/calendar device and nothing else.

eBay app was awful. The android one is no better - falls over all the time.

<comment><USER5> The developer experience is miles ahead of Android, even when looking at the phone/store split they had on 8.x.

The only downside was having accelerated graphics only available as pure COM instead of WinRT components, but even there the situation is improving.

<comment><USER6> The best thing I love about Windows development after coming from playing with Java and Android is the power and flexibility and saneness (is that a thing?) of XAML and WPF. And even the C# language is very much compared to Java.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I don't understand all the hate here. Either it will work well or it won't, and the market will decide if it gets to live or die. For a company with resources like Microsoft that has its fingers in so many corners of the market, this seems like a workable, if inelegant, business strategy.

I am much more interested in the technical details of such technology. How are they doing this? Is it pure emulation? JIT transpilation? Does .NET CIL have anything to do with making this "emulation" easy?

<comment><USER8> This announcement provides a bit of credibility to the suspicion that Microsoft has been wanting to make a "Surface Phone" device for some time, but was delaying until the right pieces were in place. It is possible they had been working with Intel's Broxton and that chip's cancellation required returning to the drawing board, so to speak.

But it seems likely, to my mind, that what we see today—x86 emulation on a Snapdragon—materialized because Microsoft wants to deliver full Windows 10 on a phone-sized device and Intel wasn't able to give them the necessary platform.

Emulation may be inelegant, but the video [1] confirms performance that would be "good enough" (oh how I hate that phrase) for many users.

[1] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_GlGglbu1U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_GlGglbu1U)

<comment><USER9> If it works, how usable would a desktop app run on a phone? I think Microsoft would intend to do this for tablets (which need longer battery life than what Intel provides) rather than a Surface Phone.

<comment><USER4> A desktop app would probably be tricky to use on a phone _screen_ , but the big idea here is that you can connect the tiny computer in your pocket to a TV or a monitor and have it work _just like a laptop_ , with no OS restrictions.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I'm more than a little confused about MS "mobile" strategy. Continuum sounds like a good idea, in theory. For enterprise I can kinda see it be attractive to just give your employees mobile phones and hook the office up with continuum docks. But it seems problematic in more than one aspect. For starters it's based on the fact that people are going to want to use a windows mobile as their primary device to start with.

MS could have been there, in fact they almost _were_ there, but they've let the mobile side drift aimlessly to the point were neither vendors nor third- party developers have any faith left in their mobile efforts. I could never wrap my head around how strategically MS could just let mobile go and not take the fight. It seems so integral to so many other efforts.

Another problem, is continuum really a good idea for anything else than niché scenarios? I have trouble coming up with use-cases. A laptop you can bring with you to meetings, on planes etc. With continuum you need a lap dock for that.. but then you have a sub-par laptop _and_ a phone.

I guess if I were travelling it could be nice to just bring a mobile and connect it to a setup at a co-working space. But is carrying a dell xps 13 around really such a big deal? and what if I want to use a computer outside of the co-working space/office?

Then we have x86 apps on the mobile platform. There's been a lot of people wanting to see "Desktop" apps on mobile... I can understand that from a "continuum as a computer" perspective, if you buy into the continuum premise, but I can't see x86 software ever work well on a mobile form factor with the battery limits and UI challenges that comes with that.

So what is Microsoft's plan, now it seems they're just throwing stuff on the walls and to see what sticks. I'm a bigger UWP and .Net proponent than most, but I wish Microsoft would get their shit together and start executing across the board.

There's a bunch of stuff in UWP that could make the windows platform larger than the sum of its parts if you are in the ecosystem. Roaming settings/files, Notification mirroring and synchronization, universal apps, continuum, continue on another device etc etc. But it requires that there actually is an viable windows mobile that people wants to buy.

<comment><USER11> My personal take away from your critique is that the problem is not just the computer. We also need a mobile display solution. Whether MS thinks they have that solved with their coming AR devices or they are looking farther down the pipe, I'm not sure.

I think MS's plan right now is to not have a plan. Many of their products point to them thinking that we are at a point where computers are making a fundamental shift in the way we interact with them (Surface, AR, this) but not necessarily being sure where the shift is going.

<comment><USER12> Miracast is a Windows 10 supported mobile display solution with increasingly surprising ubiquity. You currently can't expect every hotel room TV to support it yet, but a generic Miracast stick (or Amazon Fire stick if you want a branded one) can be obtained pretty cheaply and is small and easy to tote around.

Microsoft has a folding bluetooth keyboard that fits in my pocket and is surprisingly nice to work on despite the size.

Keyboard, stick, phone, phone charger is just about all I need to be productive, and with a bit of arrangement I can fit all of that in carpenter's jeans pockets.

I think MS has several plans in motion but has been slow to get all of the moving parts in place. The Creator's Update and "Redstone 3" to follow sounds like some of those plans are finally starting to converge (now that the basic infrastructure is in place).

<comment><USER13> Intel also has their Compute Stick devices for people who need a full x86 PC in the same form factor. They're surprisingly inexpensive.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Compute_Stick](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Compute_Stick)

<comment><USER12> I think we've definitely hit a Gibson's Law inflection point here: the future is clearly already here and we can definitely see it; it's just very unevenly distributed right now.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> As soon as I saw Ubuntu Edge back in 2013, I have been dreaming of the day something like Continuum is a reality and not just for Windows. For Linux and MacOS as well.

Hopefully, it's not to far off now.

<comment><USER15> Greatly agreed. Being able to dock a phone and turn it into a fully functioning desktop is a phenomenal idea and feels like the natural progression.

I don't think we'll ever see that with the Mac though unfortunately, and I suspect Apple would never introduce a cursor and windowing system into iOS either.

<comment><USER16> It's a neat idea, but I think it's an idea ahead of it's time still. There have been docking laptops forever and even that doesn't seem to have taken the world by storm.

My PC is configured with terabytes of slow storage, gigabytes of fast storage, a fast CPU, a fast GPU, and applications that need lots of storage and a fast video card and big screens. I'm unconstrained on size and power consumption and optimized for performance and my efficiency.

Meanwhile, my phone makes all kinds of compromises in order to be small and run all day on a single charge.

If being able to dock a phone is a good idea, why not go one step further? Make a watch that's your PC. When you sit down at a keyboard and monitor at Starbucks, it pairs with your watch and you get to work. Make the phone be nothing but a remote speaker, microphone, and display for your wrist computer. Your desktop is just a remote keyboard, mouse and display.

<comment><USER5> > It's a neat idea, but I think it's an idea ahead of it's time still. There > have been docking laptops forever and even that doesn't seem to have taken > the world by storm.

Probably not the world, but the customers I deal with, surely yes.

Laptops with docking station have been my work tool since 2006.

<comment><USER16> I'm not saying the market doesn't exist, just that it's probably not going to take off.

I too use a dock (or port expander) but haven't had a lot of luck since I started moving to high-dpi displays a few years ago. Do you have a laptop that can drive a couple of 4k displays?

<comment><USER17> The latest macbook pro can drive 2 4k displays per USB C port.

[https://www.startech.com/AV/Converters/Video/thunderbolt-3-t...](https://www.startech.com/AV/Converters/Video/thunderbolt-3-to- dual-displayport~TB32DP2)

I don't know if apple fixed the incompatibility problem with older thunderbolt 3 devices though.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> > Microsoft's dominance in PCs means it's the only company likely to pull it > off at scale.

Try they might, but it's not going to work of you don't have another piece of the puzzle i.e. Mobile.

Microsoft is so much out of the mobile game, no matter what it's gonna do on PC, it'll not work. The windows phone is dead as a dodo, and they've nothing to show on mobile.

It'll take extraordinary efforts to get their continuum working on Apple/Google walled gardens.

This will fizzle out soon, not because of the technical merits, but due to App Store politics.

<comment><USER19> I don't think you can count Microsoft out of entering a market. They have the capital to startup and launch in probably any industry, including big pharma. I also think it'd be dangerous for Apple or google to count Microsoft out. Furthermore the economist in me wants to see many more options in the IT industry than just 2-3 so adding one more is welcome.

<comment><USER20> > They have the capital to startup and launch in probably any industry,

They tried that more than a few times and failed. X-box worked, but portable music players, mobile and search would be things they pumped massive amounts of money into and didn't get very far with.

But yes, I would like choice above all. I am not a big Windows fan, but Android is really starting to annoy me and iOS (or at least the rules around iOS) is too limited for what I do with computers/phones/tablets.

<comment> UK-AL Bing has 30-40% of the market for search. Remember lots of search engines are just rebranded bing.

<comment><USER21> This [https://www.searchenginejournal.com/august-2016-search- marke...](https://www.searchenginejournal.com/august-2016-search-market- share/172078/) says Google is 80% on desktop, higher if you count mobile too (for which it is 95%).

Oh, if you mean US only then these other people [https://www.statista.com/statistics/267161/market-share- of-s...](https://www.statista.com/statistics/267161/market-share-of-search- engines-in-the-united-states/) say Google is 64%, yeah.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Wow. It just clicked:

We could have a future where your personal computer fits easily in your pocket, you can carry it everywhere you go, and you just plug it into whatever monitor & keyboard & mouse you happen to be near by, whether it's in a coffee shop, at work, at home, on an aeroplane, anywhere!

It's almost kind of the return of the mainframe & terminal. Your OS & apps would be installed on your device, and your data would primarily be on your device but also backed up in the cloud.

This is one of the first computer-based innovations I'm actually excited about in like 15 years. Count me hopeful.

<comment><USER23> _It 's almost kind of the return of the mainframe & terminal._

Man, I hate to be Mr. Pedantic here, but with mainframes/terminals all of the processing and data storage took place on a machine you couldn't see and (probably) didn't control. Which is the exact opposite of having the machine in your pocket.

When really what we're asking for is better OS and device support for peripherals. If an iPad had mouse support, I'd have little need for a MBP save running Xcode.

<comment><USER24> > Man, I hate to be Mr. Pedantic here, but with mainframes/terminals all of > the processing and data storage took place on a machine you couldn't see and > (probably) didn't control. Which is the exact opposite of having the machine > in your pocket.

To be fair, much of the processing and data storage is going on in the cloud.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> I believe I have a right to computing freedom, and actively try to use free software on my personal computer and on servers I develop on and deploy to. I have EOMA68 laptop and desktop housings[0] coming, hopefully in the spring. I am also about to build a server with a motherboard that is supported by Libreboot[1] and processors that work fine without microcode updates.

I use Android phones and tablets, but as long as they have non-free components, I will never accept the "convergence" paradigm. If I can't have freedom all of the time, at least I won't surrender it all of the time.

[0] [https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro- desktop](https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop)

[1][https://libreboot.org](https://libreboot.org)

<comment><USER26> Just curious, did you support the Ubuntu Edge effort a couple years back? Why or why not?

[https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu- edge#/](https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge#/)

I ask because my perspective is that the convergence effort started a long time ago...perhaps as early as Canonical's original controversial release of the Unity desktop...and these efforts by larger players are more or less followers (albeit higher powered followers with larger market reach).

This being the case, I actually support the "convergence" paradigm...particularly Ubuntu's efforts but even from players like Microsoft...since I see convergence as a way of cracking open (to some extent) the walled gardens mobile devices have become.

But I wonder if there is some part of the Ubuntu Edge that was "closed" and I didn't notice.

<comment><USER27> I think the opposite.

Microsoft has a "legacy" on x86 that its open and standardized. Once it moves to ARM, all bets are off (see surface).

I wonder if I'm going to be able to install Linux on a "PC" in ten years

<comment><USER28> They standardized ARM with UEFI and ACPI. All bets are not off, Secure Boot was defeated :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Complete change from just a few years ago when they seemed hellbent on turning my computer into a smartphone!

</comment><comment><USER30> I know I'm in the minority but I tried out Windows Phone for a couple years and loved the interface and the experience. But the app store/vendor lock-in is its achilles heel and ultimately its undoing. When I bought my phone I was betting that more app developers would go HTML5 web apps (and break up the, but the opposite happened, and I felt like I was on the outside looking in with my iOS/Android friends.

I do feel a phone/PC convergence is inevitable, x86 emulation on ARM is the future, and web-based mobile apps will make a comeback, but that day seems far off.

<comment><USER31> Why bother with emulation? The only app I use with any amount of regularity that doesn't run well on arm is spotify.

EDIT: I forgot you where talking about windows, still, if you stick to open source *nix stuff then you really don't have this problem.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> Hmm, x86 emulation on ARM is the most interesting nugget. No one here thinks Windows Phone will be back in any serious capacity and that brand is pretty much finished.

Looks like this will run similar to how Apple got PowerPC apps running on early Intel Macs. Emulated just enough to cross the bridge to the Intel bits so that performance wasn't completely unusable. You could really run Adobe Photoshop, which would have been unthinkable if it was full emulation.

Question for this effort, is this Microsoft revisiting Surface Books that are running on ARM chips?

<comment><USER33> My hunch is a Surface Phone that can hook up to a larger screen and become a full computer, but I'm not sure how that would work if you ever need data that's in a win32 app while you're mobile. Guess it could run a desktop like you can use VNC/RDP apps on phones, let you pan and zoom around?

Not a great experience, but then again, touch input on the Windows desktop on the whole Surface line is occasionally janky when you have poorly compatible software, so that's nothing new.

<comment><USER34> _> ever need data that's in a win32 app while you're mobile_

Your data is assumed to be in the cloud, or on your SD card. If not, you do what we did roughly 20 years ago from (pre-smartphone) PocketPC handhelds: used RDP.

This was so much fun, you remembered to stick it on a ComnpactFlash card for next time ;-)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> Pour a little out for the Friendster of this concept:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OQO](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OQO)

</comment><comment><USER36> So, Microsoft finally solved the Windows on ARM puzzle.

Did it take them more than five years to write an x86 emulator, or did they only decide to try this after Windows RT had failed?

<comment><USER37> On a Microsoft scale, it's always been trivial to write, I think it has a lot more to do with the gap in phone vs laptop performance shrinking significantly. Mainly because laptops have been stagnant.

Using any kind of desktop software on a 2011 mobile phone would have been horrible, even if the ARM translation were free.

<comment><USER38> Doing it well while either obtaining patent licenses or avoiding patents, however, could make it non-trivial.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> Does it really make sense to reuse hardware, optimized for low power usage, when ample power is available? Why not use a real PC in the office, when all the data is in the cloud anyway? I think this is a neat trick, but I don't see the purpose.

<comment><USER16> What else can Microsoft do? Without this, there's really no mobile strategy except to support users and developers on Android and iOS (which isn't a terrible strategy).

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> Wow I just did a quick search here and found zero references to the word "Internet"! Nobody mentions the IoT.

Internet of Things is and will be running on ARM CPUs, ARM GPUs, ARM Display, ARM Video, etc. Not having your major OS on ARM means you are behind Android, behind iOS, behind Linux, behind IoT and basically behind the world...

Have you seen Windows 10 IoT Core? [https://developer.microsoft.com/en- us/windows/iot](https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/iot)

Some companies have already been making ARM microprocessors for Windows 10 IoT core for a while now.

This one for example runs it: [https://www.pine64.org/?page_id=3707](https://www.pine64.org/?page_id=3707)

<comment><USER40> I am waiting to see the MacBook Pro run on ARM with 10x more battery life :)

<comment><USER41> Or my preference with 32 cores; some for power efficiency and some for battery life.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> I can't wait:

C:\Program Files\

C:\Program Files (x86)\

C:\Program Files (ARM)\

<comment><USER43> I can't wait:

      C:\Program Files\
      C:\Program Files (x86)\
      C:\Program Files (ARM)\
      C:\Program Files (ARM64)\

<comment><USER28> On ARM64, C:\Program Files\ is used for native. and the normal (x86) path for WoW.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> Although for my use cases a phone will most likely never be fast enough I can see this working for a large majority of end users.

As someone in my office just said: "This is like saying 'of course shoes need laces'".

<comment><USER45> As a developer, I think I'm damn close to being able to work on a phone's processing power. The biggest problem is driving large enough monitors at this point, but most of my work can be handled via SSH when speed is an issue.

<comment><USER46> On my windows desktop, at least half the time, I am using an SMB share in my Linux VM to use a gui editor in windows (love VS Code), and have a few SSH terms in conemu connected to the same VM for running stuff. On mac, I managed to do fine locally against iTerm2. I tend to deploy against linux so this is the least friction for me.

I was actually fine with a chromebook a couple years ago, but couldn't get it to work with the VPN at work... So went back to an mbp. A lot of people do fine with this level of device (hence the chromebooks). I think the real shift will be in terms of integration without friction, which MS has a poor track record of, and most developers in general do poorly with.

Who knows though.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> If the email and calendar apps of Win 10 Mobile aren't are seamless and simple as the iOS apps, it's a non-starter. The current apps look like they're from 1999 and are horrible when you have multiple accounts.

There are probably about 1000 apps that MS would need to make sure are in their own app store for any new Surface Phone to survive, plus continuum, plus "something else".

I personally think they need to dump the tiles and mimic the UX of iOS/Android and just admit that's what people like and are comfortable with.

</comment><comment><USER48> I wish them the best of luck. This could be big if it works well.

</comment><comment><USER49> I wonder what their end user is here. Android is clearly the winner which Windows Phone has lost to.

Perhaps they are aiming for productivity based use that requires windows toolsets? Sort of like a Bring Your Own Work Device to work that will inherently tie the worker beyond the office?

<comment><USER50> If they released a windows phone that connects to monitors and has the basic word processing and web browsing capabilities I would definitely consider buying one. Also as long as monitors and everything aren't very expensive I could see them eating part of the market for chromebooks and tablets

<comment><USER49> I think Surface Pro + ARM Processor + Cellular Connectivity will be the ultimate portable development environment.

I think bouncing off on your idea of the windows phone, it'd be a crazy win if you at the end of the day, you didn't have to carry a big laptop bag, but you could carry it in your back pocket.

maybe we don' even need monitors or keyboards. it could be VR or AR even....!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> Ironic that instead of working on establishing a proper mobile software platform, Microsoft is spending enormous resources on escaping the Intel ecosystem just as Intel is finally getting a handle on pushing its x86 line into smartphone power consumption territory.

<comment><USER13> > _Intel is finally getting a handle on pushing its x86 line into smartphone > power consumption territory._

Intel cancelled their smartphone x86 chip in April.

[http://www.anandtech.com/show/10288/intel-broxton-sofia- smar...](http://www.anandtech.com/show/10288/intel-broxton-sofia-smartphone- socs-cancelled)

Perhaps they'll re-enter the smartphone market but it's unlikely to be anytime soon.

</comment></comment><comment><USER52> Make this platform "extendable" \- a la Motorola and Moto Z Droid - and MS might be on to something. It's silly how much redundant hardware each of us own.

It's then just a matter of apps. If that's dev once for all Win 10, then the future looks bright.

<comment><USER40> You know what I don't get is why on Earth do game publishers and console manufacturers like Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo get in the way of people's creativity. This arcane idea of make a big huge console and filter the hell out of content on it is like prehistoric now. Ok, yo don't want spam, virus or stuff like that but I don't get why these companies don't just let go. Why make yourself a bottleneck!? Look at Google's ranking method. The more a page is liked the higher it appears when doing a search. Wouldn't it be funny if Google said, no "submit" your pages to us and we will review which ones should be listed on our search engine!? That's what these old school console ecosystems are doing. Make a 100% open ecosystem, make it not depend on a particular hardware or operating system and let people create. It's like you know depending on hardware is a limiting factor, you know depending on a particular OS is a limiting factor, you know manual filtering of content is a limiting factor. What do people want!? As a player I want a game streaming service, as a developer I want a multiplayer networking service to build my game on. The rest is history... Why not just build the infrastructure, relief yourself from all that stuff like H/W, O/S, etc. (make it someone else's pain). Why!?

<comment><USER52> It's kinda a twist on razors v razor blades. There's profit in power. And as much as VCs and such rave about disruption, there are just some fights they're afraid to pick.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> Good news. I never imagined to buy a "Windows Phone", but if they do that, and provide a good "restore" system (i.e. easy recover of a non-booting phone via USB), I would be glad of using one, so I can avoid traveling with a laptop (e.g. using the phone on hotel TVs with Bluetooth keyboard would be very convenient).

I hope Android provide an equivalent thing. For me a simple dual boot of e.g. an Ubuntu read-only image stored in the SD card or similar would be enough for my needs, if MHL/HDMI-Out, USB OTG, and Bluetooth work properly.

<comment><USER46> It could get _very_ interesting... most of the profits from phones seem to be the "storage" differentiation on overpricing the extra storage... I don't think I could get by with a desktop with less than 128gb of open space... though RDP and SSH access could offset this a lot. Wonder if I can manage to get cifs sharing over ssh tunnel.

</comment></comment><comment><USER54> Though there are many negative comments here,I think this is going to be huge for win for many if they deliver the mobile part decently. At least if they port windows phones basic apps as it is (caller,messages,email etc),I will give it a try -You have a decent working portable machine with amazing battery life \- You can domain join your phone and you will be able to access your internal apps -Continuum will be anyway present so you can attach to other devices

</comment><comment><USER55> Licensingwise where is the difference between x86 software emulation, x86 hardware assisted emulation and new x86 processor? What I get from this is that they will do user mode emulation like qemu-user. Either way they will emulate it in software. If they would add a co-processor that would assist the emulation, would it need a license from Intel? I understand if it would run as a normal x86 core it would require it.

</comment><comment><USER56> I really gotta wonder if this was a long term plan or in response to Intel leaving MS in the lurch with the changes to x86 strategy on mobile or a bit of both.

<comment><USER34> Clearly a long-term plan because Microsoft wouldn't have been able to do it so quickly.

Also, Intel did not leave Microsoft in the lurch: Intel left Intel in the lurch.

It made no difference at all to Microsoft, which already had Windows on ARM smartphones and tablets. It didn't even lose any revenue, because Windows is free on small screen devices.

<comment><USER56> I think it screwed up Microsoft's original Surface Phone strategy if the tech press is to be believed.

<comment><USER34> You're worrying about ill-informed speculation about a hypothetical product? ;-)

<comment><USER56> No, I'm worrying about a strategy that would have been a bit easier to implement. I have about as much belief in the hypothetical nature of a Surface Phone as people had about an Apple Phone. An intel chip would have made much more sense for Microsoft.

<comment><USER34> No, it wouldn't. Microsoft's long term preference is to move to sandboxed apps downloaded from the Windows Store.

If you're running Windows 10 on a smartphone with an Intel chip then you're potentially leaving yourself open to badly-written Win32 programs that can have devastating effects on performance, security and battery life.

If you're only going to allow UWP apps then it doesn't matter whether it's a ARM chip or an Intel chip.

In passing, OEMs can already make and sell Intel-based smartphones and tablets with free Windows 10. However, Intel-based phones like the Asus ZenPhone weren't successful, which is why Intel dropped the new Atom SoCs for phones and tablets....

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER57> I have been expecting a single central computing unit which serves as a phone, docked to a living room computer serves as a media player and gaming console for about two decades now (I believe my first article in Hungary's biggest computer monthly outlining this vision was published in 1998). Eventually it will happen. It's too logical not to.

</comment><comment><USER58> Does this mean I can install Windows 10 on my 820 chip android phone as a custom ROM. someone from XDA should take a look into it and build a windows 10 ROM for my Axon 7 which have 820 chip

<comment><USER59> From the article it sounds like this will only work with the next gen CPU , 835 not current 820/1

</comment></comment><comment><USER60> Did they mention battery life? I can only wonder how much battery life will take a hit with emulation especially when you're trying to make the emulated app as performant as possible.

<comment><USER61> Probably not great but I'd envisage running 'legacy' x86 desktop programs on a phone typically when 'docked' on mains power with external screen(s), a mouse and external keyboard.

</comment></comment><comment><USER62> I would love for a linux distro to target exactly this use case.

<comment><USER63> Did you hear about the Ubuntu Edge fundraiser?

</comment></comment><comment><USER64> This is the future but even better if it were without wires...

<comment><USER65> I'm starting to lose hope about losing wires. I use them whenever I can because wireless solutions tend to be spotty and eat lots of battery power. Are people optimistic that we'll ever truly get rid of wires?

<comment><USER66> I think latency-sensitive or quality-sensitive applications are pretty much always going to require wires at _some_ level of tolerance. I'm barely willing to put up with my Bluetooth headphones when I'm exercising; h.264-blocky and lagging displays is no bueno. And maybe there's a technological solution we haven't yet explored, but a lot of this strikes me as kind of core to "these aren't just wires that light up, we're decoding radio waves and have to do a bunch of logic to make them comprehensible".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER67> That's a pretty smart move.

</comment><comment><USER68> Whether you like it or not...

</comment><comment><USER69> Sorry Microsoft... No one cares</comment>


Can the HP Touchpad become the best $99 Android tablet? - <AUTHOR> http://androidandme.com/2011/08/devices/can-the-hp-touchpad-become-the-best-99-android-tablet/

<comment><USER2> I think HP is going to sell every unit in about a week and this will make them go hmmmm...:-)

</comment><comment><USER3> Not unless I can get my hands on one :)</comment>


Quick and Simple PHP Honey Pot Spam Prevention - <AUTHOR> http://devgrow.com/simple-php-honey-pot/

<comment><USER2> A better way of doing this is having the hidden form element named 'email' and the actual email input named something else, as many scripts will be set to auto input based on these submissions

<comment><USER3> But how does that affect accessibility?

Also, if you do that you need to remember to keep track that the email variable is actually a honey-pot and whatever name you choose is the actual e-mail address.

<comment><AUTHOR> In terms of accessibility, I assume the label element is more important as the name of the input element isn't visible anyways (for screen readers and people with CSS disabled). I agree with you though, it does seem like a headache to deal with for more complex (or multiple) projects - makes more sense to name the input field something unique that you can easily remember.</comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: github-mirror, syncs every repo in an org. locally for faster deploys - <AUTHOR> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/githubmirror

<comment><USER2> I like github-backup[1], which I think does something slightly different; it mirrors github issues and the rest of github's non-git metadata.

[1] [https://github.com/joeyh/github-backup](https://github.com/joeyh/github- backup)</comment>


Steve Jobs' Reality Distortion Field - <AUTHOR> http://www.cstthegate.com/davetrott/2011/11/steve-jobs-reality-distortion-field/

<comment><USER2> _You have to get people to want to do the impossible._

I'm not sure that this is really the conclusion to be drawn. From the examples given, I'd say it's more like "You have to get people to do things that don't seem to be worth the effort." Jobs had a knack for spotting the small differences in a product that payed off in big differences in market share.

</comment><comment><USER3> I don't think Steve Jobs' having this type of reality distortion field was as special as his ability to see them through.

In fact, for many founders, the reality distortion field is what hurts them. They think so far ahead about all that they can do. And yet, they fail at executing--I would argue in big part because of their reality distortion field.</comment>


Low-dose radiation from A-bombs elongated lifespan and reduced cancer mortality - <AUTHOR> https://genesenvironment.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s41021-018-0114-3 <comment><USER2> thank god for a-bombs</comment>


The Procrastinator's Clock - <AUTHOR> http://davidseah.com/blog/a-chindogu-clock-for-procrastinators/

<comment><USER2> This is a serious problem for me; while I have overcome the larger problem of procrastination in terms of putting off important tasks, I'm always 5-10 minutes late.

I actually thought of the exact solution as in the article when I was a kid, but I didn't know how to hack a physical clock to do it. And doing it on the computer is not very useful when there is a big-ass wall clock giving you the correct time with a (constant, known) error.

I think the killer app for this is to put it on a Chumby. Anyone up for it? When I get my own chumby, this is probably the first app I'll write. (Assuming it isn't already written.)

</comment><comment><USER3> First of all creating this clock was in all likelihood a major act of procrastination. Publicizing the clock: more procrastination. Me reading the article: more procrastination. You reading my post: more procrastination.

Where does it end?

<comment><AUTHOR> Perhaps using the clock ends procrastination. If you are lucky, that is.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I have a much simpler method of getting to the exact same end result of fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

Nickle: the best allergy I ever got. Can't wear my beautiful $3000 stainless steel watch anymore. So I just stopped wearing a watch. Presto, on time all the time. Why? Because I learned very quickly to build in a little extra fudge time wherever I go. I can't time it to the second, because I don't know, and I, for damn sure, know that.

Now, if that only worked for 6 month research projects.

<comment><AUTHOR> Ah friend of mine said, he needed the Procrastinator's clock as a calendar with 15 days instead of minutes ahead.

By the way, I never wore a watch. It's always funny when you ask people for the time, and they tell you "It's quarter past", but do not tell you the hour and that's what you are interested in. They just assume you know.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Wow. This seems useful, if it's the only clock you have (and, of course, if you have this problem). Unfortunately, we're all surrounded by clocks. Or maybe just I am. I can see three (including the upper-right OS X clock) from where I sit, and every cellphone has a clock, too.

</comment><comment><USER6> I wonder what the correlation between procrastination and punctuality is? This works if you're a procrastinator and punctual....

</comment><comment><USER6> This never works in the long run - The problem is that you know it's 15 minutes out and you adjust.

<comment><USER2> Please go read the article. That's exactly the problem that the clock solves.

<comment><USER6> Oh - right you are... Funnily enough, that didn't leap out at me when I skimmed it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> My brain does not have enough sugar left to really back up what I'm going to say, but here goes:

Y'all have ADD. The only thing that's going to fix your problems is Ritalin.

Just saying.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_attention- deficit_disorde...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_attention- deficit_disorder)

</comment><comment><USER8> You are a product of your environment. --Clement Stone</comment>


Our attempt at fixing the US Healthcare System (search in Baltimore, MD) - <AUTHOR> http://comparedcare.com

<comment><USER2> I'm in health-tech myself and have a bit of background with the terminology process. Is this using CPT codes for the search? If so, you might want to look at improving some of the functionality, since a lot of these are abbreviated, and unless you are a complete wonk like I am, patients may or may not fully understand the abbreviations. Nice job though with the layout.

<comment><AUTHOR> We figured the CPT codes would be too confusing for users, we just have the hcpcs descriptions. Where are you located in the health-tech-osphere?</comment></comment>


How Connected Is Your Community to Everywhere Else in America? - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/09/19/upshot/facebook-county-friendships.html <comment><USER2> Q: What is up with Loving County, Texas? I'm curious whether there's a data problem, or something else going on. (It's the county along the northern border of West Texas that lights up often as you randomly mouse around the map.)

It seems to behave a bit like Teton County, but less obviously (Teton County is home to Jackson Hole, well-connected to rich people everywhere.)

A: I just figured it out by reading the wikipedia page. It's the second least populous county in the US, so the data is basically all noise.

</comment><comment><USER3> I wish you could turn off the hover effect once you have typed in your county.

<comment><USER4> Click a county to pin it.</comment></comment>


Getting Busy and Being Social for the Socially Awkward - <AUTHOR> http://www.iamdann.com/2012/05/29/tips-for-using-a-calendar-to-build-a-social-life

<comment><USER2> I came to the same conclusions from a different angle. I realized I had so many recurring weekly commitments to activities I loved that I wasn't hanging out with people that didn't participate in those activities.

So I started scheduling social time with people. From getting lunch to just getting some coffee and chatting, I actually got to see and talk with people I cared about.

But I also realized the power of being the "event planner." I think a lot of people are just waiting for someone to come up with something for them to do. This is as true in professional life as it is in social. If you start planning things to do with others, people will respect you more and think of you when they have opportunities. It takes some work, but I've reaped rewards.

</comment><comment><USER3> Step one: self-respect. Step two: go be with folks.

Because step one requires step two, go straight to step two.</comment>


A former IE dev: Why I switched to Firefox - <AUTHOR> http://www.scottberkun.com/blog/2005/why-i-switched-to-firefox/

<comment><USER2> That post is worthless without discussing extensions. Really complaining about something that download statusbar fixes? FF is 90% extensions.</comment>


Why Is Peter Thiel Pessimistic About Technological Innovation? (2014) - <AUTHOR> http://danwang.co/why-is-peter-thiel-pessimistic-about-technological-innovation/ <comment><USER2> I'd recommend reading The Rise and Fall of American Growth for some useful numbers on this. Between 1870 and 1970 the standard of living increased so dramatically due to a few key inventions that the author calls "onetime" events. Technology since then has led to marginal improvements compared to, say, the widespread adoption of the filtered drinking water networks.

<comment><USER3> Paul Krugman's review:

[https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/books/review/the- power...](https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/books/review/the-powers-that- were.html)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> >The Empire State Building was built in 15 months in 1932. It's taken 12 years and counting to rebuild the World Trade Center. (Source: 36:00)

This is more a commentary on a broken and toxic local political and regulatory climate in New York City than a point about a lack of engineering innovation. Still, perhaps _that 's_ part of what he's talking about for some of his critiques.

<comment><USER5> _" Data from the National Safety Council from 1933 through 1997 indicate that deaths from unintentional work-related injuries declined 90%, from 37 per 100,000 workers to 4 per 100,000. The corresponding annual number of deaths decreased from 14,500 to 5100; during this same period, the workforce more than tripled, from 39 million to approximately 130 million."_

[https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4822a1.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4822a1.htm)

<comment><USER4> I think you're trying to make the point that the reason for long construction timelines is directly linked to safety. In a way, that's indirectly supporting Thiel's point. Why can't we have both? I don't see a reason that we can't have a more responsive, swift building and infrastructure development _and_ a safe construction environment.

<comment><USER6> Safe, Cheap, Fast

Pick two.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Although this may irritate Thiel given his libertarian philosophy, the reason is rather clearly the decline of focused public research initiatives.

Whereas previously we had universities and government research arms inventing cyclotrons, rockets, GPS and internet systems, we now have an outcome where long term research, which requires a long time with unpredictable returns and a high chance of failure is cast aside in favor of rapid, iterative improvements.

<comment><USER8> I agree with all that but I still wouldn't call Thiel any sort of libertarian. He spoke at the RNC, backed Trump and is in fact a registered Republican. Like many he waved a libertarian flag of convenience when that was fashionable but the dude's a right wing conservative.

I wouldn't say these sort of conservatives are pessimistic about progress so much they are opposed to progress.

<comment><USER9> "We don't support Trump for his weaknesses but for his strengths." \- Thiel at the RNC.

It was a pragmatic choice. Thiel _is_ a libertarian.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Isn't there an inevitable aspect of diminishing returns here? For example, you can't run Moore's Law forever since there are physical constraints to how close things on your chips can be.

It is obvious that any problem to which people have not turned their attention to probably has lots of low hanging fruits that will give you 'progress' very quickly and relatively easily.

<comment><USER11> I would disagree. The IoT despite being the latest fad has true possibility to change the world. We don't see this change in English speaking countries though. Why not? We are comfortable. If you go to an advanced Asian country they are just now gaining traction into the world and will leap frog this innovation. (Think Europe in the 1890s-1935.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> I think we don't measure productivity of knowledge workers well, so we can't see how much progress we make based on IT changes. How do you measure the improvements that come from me sitting at my desk and coding up the OS? You measure second and third degree effects. You could argue windows doesn't matter compared to linux in productivity, but in either case the lives of pharmacists and ability to dispense drugs are much higher today than they were in the 50s. You can have robots count out the pills. The doc doesn't call my pharmacy, a computer manages telling them the prescription. We do have more drugs being prescribed, but I am convinced (I do need some evidence though) that the reason the economists claiming persistent lack of productivity growth is because we don't measure it accurately in the modern age. It's more that more comfort for pharmacists.

</comment><comment><USER13> Similar feelings st the beginning of the 20th sentury... everything invented, nothing more to discover... bottom line, no body can predict the future and something amazing can be right around the corner...

<comment><USER14> Personally, I think the future is more predictable than you suggest. The standard model of physics has been stable for over half a century. New discoveries in physics typically don't throw out what came before - they make improvements that seem to be asymptotically smaller.

Asimov has an excellent essay on the topic of scientific progress: [http://chem.tufts.edu/answersinscience/relativityofwrong.htm](http://chem.tufts.edu/answersinscience/relativityofwrong.htm)

Of course it's always possible we discover something new and groundbreaking in the laws of physics, but given that we're having to spend billions of dollars on accelerators and telescopes, it seems less and less likely that we'll find things as cheap and as useful as electricity or semiconductors.

Looking at life now compared to life in 1967, there are many differences, especially related to computer technology, but there are also many similarities. We still have ships, trains, cars, and planes. We still have roads. We still have schools. We still have houses. We still have plumbing for water and waste. We still have electricity. We still have jobs and commutes. We still have governments and corporations and money. For the most part, the structure of modern life has been pretty stable. Of course we cannot know the future, but it feels safe to me to expect similar stability over the next half century.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> This theme of slow technological advancement echos with a recent NPR podcast. [http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/05/19/529178937/episo...](http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/05/19/529178937/episode-772-small- change)

Basically they say that productivity growth is sporadic, rather than continuous. I took this as a cautionary tale that we shouldn't be too hyped about the future. Keep your feet down to the earth, etc.

</comment><comment><USER13> Just think for moment, only 50 years ago people had no idea about internet, smart phone, cell phone cd Rom, MP3, app, social media, YouTube, web page, pvr, Netflix, amazon and so one and so forth... after another 50 years, the world could be a very different place...

<comment><USER14> 50 years ago Arthur C Clarke made some very decent predictions about the future. He correctly called global satellite communications, for instance. And if anything, his predictions were too optimistic. Genetic engineering hasn't changed humanity, we still haven't colonized the moon or Mars, and we're still a long way from general AI.

[http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/scifi/arthur-clarke- predict...](http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/scifi/arthur-clarke-predicts- future-1964.html)</comment></comment>


QLBridge – Go SQL Runtime Engine - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/araddon/qlbridge <comment><USER2> Cool! Checkout Dremio. It combines Apache drill with an efficient in- memory columnar format for low latency materializations. Similar use cases.</comment>


Ask HN: Would someone in Australia mind pinging 3 IP addresses for me? - <AUTHOR>

I'm trying to decide where to host my 2 websites, one of which is targeted to Australians and the other to North America.
Would someone who is in Australia mind pinging these 3 IP addresses of the hosts I'm considering and telling me the average ping time?
Quadra Hosting 188.8.131.52
WPEngine Tokyo 188.8.131.52
WPEngine US 184.108.40.206
If you could also tell me where in Australia you are that would be great!
Thanks! <comment><USER5> Brisbane, iiNet, Australia PING 184.108.40.206 (184.108.40.206) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 184.108.40.206: icmp_req=1 ttl=56 time=497 ms 64 bytes from 188.8.131.52: icmp_req=2 ttl=56 time=548 ms 64 bytes from 188.8.131.52: icmp_req=3 ttl=56 time=572 ms 64 bytes from 188.8.131.52: icmp_req=4 ttl=56 time=590 ms 64 bytes from 126.96.36.199: icmp_req=5 ttl=56 time=674 ms 64 bytes from 126.96.36.199: icmp_req=6 ttl=56 time=401 ms 64 bytes from 184.108.40.206: icmp_req=7 ttl=56 time=409 ms 64 bytes from 22.214.171.124: icmp_req=8 ttl=56 time=446 ms

\--- 126.96.36.199 ping statistics --- 8 packets transmitted, 8 received, 0% packet loss, time 7001ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 401.078/517.690/674.353/89.851 ms

PING 22.214.171.124 (220.127.116.11) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 184.108.40.206: icmp_req=1 ttl=48 time=245 ms 64 bytes from 220.127.116.11: icmp_req=2 ttl=48 time=282 ms 64 bytes from 188.8.131.52: icmp_req=3 ttl=48 time=300 ms 64 bytes from 188.8.131.52: icmp_req=4 ttl=48 time=157 ms 64 bytes from 184.108.40.206: icmp_req=5 ttl=48 time=309 ms 64 bytes from 220.127.116.11: icmp_req=6 ttl=48 time=264 ms 64 bytes from 126.96.36.199: icmp_req=7 ttl=48 time=266 ms 64 bytes from 188.8.131.52: icmp_req=8 ttl=48 time=253 ms

\--- 22.214.171.124 ping statistics --- 8 packets transmitted, 8 received, 0% packet loss, time 7001ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 157.676/259.900/309.386/43.775 ms

PING 18.104.22.168 (188.8.131.52) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 22.214.171.124: icmp_req=1 ttl=50 time=477 ms 64 bytes from 126.96.36.199: icmp_req=2 ttl=50 time=321 ms 64 bytes from 126.96.36.199: icmp_req=3 ttl=50 time=253 ms 64 bytes from 18.104.22.168: icmp_req=4 ttl=50 time=390 ms 64 bytes from 188.8.131.52: icmp_req=5 ttl=50 time=328 ms 64 bytes from 188.8.131.52: icmp_req=6 ttl=50 time=254 ms 64 bytes from 220.127.116.11: icmp_req=7 ttl=50 time=277 ms 64 bytes from 18.104.22.168: icmp_req=8 ttl=50 time=277 ms

\--- 184.108.40.206 ping statistics --- 8 packets transmitted, 8 received, 0% packet loss, time 7006ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 253.785/322.739/477.706/72.651 ms

</comment><comment><USER6> Hi,

Sydney, Dodo, Australia:

126.96.36.199

Pinging 18.104.22.168 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 22.214.171.124: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=58

Reply from 126.96.36.199: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=58

Reply from 18.104.22.168: bytes=32 time=25ms TTL=58

Reply from 22.214.171.124: bytes=32 time=25ms TTL=58

184.108.40.206

Pinging 220.127.116.11 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 22.214.171.124: bytes=32 time=138ms TTL=51

Reply from 188.8.131.52: bytes=32 time=138ms TTL=51

Reply from 18.104.22.168: bytes=32 time=138ms TTL=51

Reply from 188.8.131.52: bytes=32 time=138ms TTL=51

188.8.131.52

Pinging 126.96.36.199 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 188.8.131.52: bytes=32 time=243ms TTL=45

Reply from 220.127.116.11: bytes=32 time=243ms TTL=45

Reply from 220.127.116.11: bytes=32 time=242ms TTL=45

Reply from 18.104.22.168: bytes=32 time=242ms TTL=45

Hope this helps

D

</comment><comment><USER7> Melbourne, Australia, on the Telstra Bigpond network \--- 126.96.36.199 ping statistics --- 20 packets transmitted, 20 received, 0% packet loss, time 19028ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 19.950/25.286/51.303/8.962 ms PING 220.127.116.11 (126.96.36.199) 56(84) bytes of data.

\--- 126.96.36.199 ping statistics --- 20 packets transmitted, 20 received, 0% packet loss, time 19027ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 137.024/140.286/151.213/3.711 ms PING 184.108.40.206 (18.104.22.168) 56(84) bytes of data.

\--- 22.214.171.124 ping statistics --- 20 packets transmitted, 20 received, 0% packet loss, time 19005ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 232.608/235.623/249.223/4.021 ms

</comment><comment><USER8> Just in case, one more.

Melbourne - Internode.

\--- 126.96.36.199 ping statistics --- 15 packets transmitted, 15 received, 0% packet loss, time 14025ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 35.684/147.028/1011.345/270.898 ms, pipe 2

\--- 184.108.40.206 ping statistics --- 12 packets transmitted, 12 received, 0% packet loss, time 11003ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 139.057/202.351/863.312/199.302 ms

\--- 220.127.116.11 ping statistics --- 17 packets transmitted, 16 received, 5% packet loss, time 16027ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 254.239/419.566/1011.784/285.667 ms, pipe 2

</comment><comment><USER9> I'm in Perth, Western Australia (my ISP is iiNet):

22.214.171.124 - <USER2>

18.104.22.168 - <USER3>

22.214.171.124 - <USER4>

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Thanks very much both of you!</comment>


Google Wave's Best Use Cases - <AUTHOR> http://lifehacker.com/5381219/google-waves-best-use-cases <comment><USER2> Wave sounds like a classic case of a solution searching for a problem.

<comment><USER3> Gonna have to disagree with you there. Wave solves a slew of little nagging issues I have with other mediums all in one go.

<comment><USER2> So are you actively using it? If so, what for?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I don't understand how a more powerful message system will make email as "asynchronous queue of messages" obsolete.

As far as I know, gmail is a surface abstraction of wave between Google's private servers.

I do understand that most email tools suck, but that is the fault of the tools and email culture, not "asynchronous queue of messages."

</comment><comment><USER5> Focusing just on collaboration would limit its market.

They should add reddit-like features for public waves.

<comment><USER6> Public waves will need some heavy hitting filtering tools to be handy, you are right about that.

Tangential note: I've noticed your comment and a few other comments being downvoted out of disagreement lately - as per the guidelines and for the sake of rich discussions, if you disagree with a comment it would be great if you could reply to it rather than just downvote it - that we we all get the benefit of your particular viewpoint and it contributes to the discussion.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> My impression : 'Google Wave is nice to Kittens'. We all like kittens, right?

I replaced 'Google Wave' by 'Plone' or 'Blog' and the meaning seemed to be preserved... are they the same thing?

<comment><USER8> PLONE?? I don't know what that is, but that sounds like the next big thing in communications.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I'm interested in using it for software company support. I see it (possibly) replacing blog comments, forums and on-line chat.</comment>


A talented developer can earn up to 15.000 Euros a month in Finland - <AUTHOR> http://metropolitan.fi/entry/a-talented-developer-can-earn-up-to-15-000-eur-a-month-in-finland <comment><USER2> "There is no need for such thing as programming geniuses. There is only need for less clueless management and less opportunistic houseboys."

Just think about all those tens of thousands of symbian-programmers that the Finnish government educated in 2000's. This took years of their lives. They did not learn rules of general programming but exceptions after exception in that one restricted system. When they were ready, that platform had died totally. But the government projects lumbered on for years. Only around 2014 last of the symbian courses was replaced with android.</comment>


Why Ariel Elkin Isn't a React Native Developer - <AUTHOR> https://arielelkin.github.io/articles/why-im-not-a-react-native-developer.html <comment><AUTHOR> Mostly reasonable criticism.

My question, though, is whether JavaScript's dynamic typing is that much of a problem for someone who's used to statically-typed languages.

So is it?</comment>


just occured to me - almost everybody do at least one startup per life - <AUTHOR>

The start up that almost one do at least once per life is FAMILY:<p>-- starting with a low budget and wild emotions -- aiming at growth and public purpose -- changing its course as life goes on -- always focused on whats critical -- totally commited<p>No less than 2 co founders needed :) <comment><USER2> I was thinking about this analogy this weekend because my niece was over. It sure seems like having a toddler is certainly on par in terms of work with doing a startup.</comment>


Buy This Homemade Nuclear Reactor for Only $3,000 in New Zealand - <AUTHOR> https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a30917842/homemade-nuclear-reactor/ <comment><AUTHOR> Original Listing [https://www.trademe.co.nz/antiques-collectables/clocks- scien...](https://www.trademe.co.nz/antiques-collectables/clocks-scientific- instruments/listing-2519182185.htm)

Built-in 2018 and forged from the depths of physics. A mighty machine arose from a seemingly normal garage in suburban Blenheim. After a year of working two part-time jobs, researching, and building, the science fair project was complete! In its current state, a beautiful plasma generator stands. However, by adding the second isotope of hydrogen into the plasma void. A tasty nuclear reaction will ensue!

 _Refer to comment surrounding Ministry of Health_

Selling to afford university!

Note: All the electrical work has been completed by a qualified electrical engineer. The transformer should not be left on at max for longer than 20 minutes.

Below is a list of parts:

\- 10mA, 2kV - 15kV, High Voltage Power Supply (with spare electrical components). \- A-i220, 7.5 microns, 2 Stage Vacuum Pump \- 0-260VAC Variable Laboratory Autotransformer (Variac) - 500VA. \- Extra 2.4m of High Voltage Silicone Rubber 40kv Wiring. \- Lead shielding cover - 4ish mm thick \- 20 grams of liquid Deuterium. \- Body constructed with stainless steel 1.5inch Tri-Clamp flange fittings, including, T sections, sight glass, end caps, ball valve, and rubber seals. \- Custom nickel electrical feedthrough rated to 20kV 15A. Originally mounted to a QF16 flange but now welded onto a 1.5inch Tri- Clamp blank. \- The frame can be added for free! (It's a bit gash) \- Hose clips are not in the photo but do come with the purchase along with a few spare SS fittings. \- Grounding alligator clip and wire.

 _Disclaimer_

This device currently stands as a working plasma generator (effectively a display piece).The next step is for a very brave person to start a nuclear reaction with the deuterium and some silver. 15KV is at the low end to initiate neutron production but I have talked to a few people that have achieved it with similar conditions. The purpose of the reactor currently is just to make nice purple light, the potential for the reactor is to produce neutrons for other projects.

</comment><comment><USER2> I think the really good deal is being in a country where the entire college education is $4000.</comment>


Multiple top-security sites hacked (zf05) - <AUTHOR> http://blog.sucuri.net/2009/07/multiple-top-security-sites-hacked-zf05.html

<comment><USER2> choice quote:

"You cannot outsource blame. You HAVE to take responsibility for your mistakes, whether they are mistakes in your code, mistakes in code you are using, mistakes by your host, or mistakes in who you trust. These are all security choices. Learn to control this shit. Learn how to read code. A lot of the time it only takes a very shallow audit to realise that the code is crap and is bound to have bugs. In a smarter world, security professionals get paid to stop people from getting owned. End of. These is no limit to the scope of an audit."

</comment><comment><USER3> Ouch. looks like they rm -rf /* mitnick's box. I'd like to know how they got in. I see some logs of phpmyadmin directory traversal attempts so maybe that and a weak system password?

</comment><comment><USER4> cat zf05.txt | grep gloryfish

<comment><USER2> ptacek rates a mention</comment></comment>


Getting Started with Swift on AWS Lambda - <AUTHOR> https://fabianfett.de/getting-started-with-swift-aws-lambda-runtime <comment><USER2> This was just done a couple days ago: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23352501](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23352501)</comment>


Cloudflare Entirely Offline - <AUTHOR>

All cloudflare sites I know of are offline, and their website is completely down.
https://www.cloudflare.com/system-status
http://i.imgur.com/zbf5O.png <comment><USER2> Its up for me</comment>


Ask HN: Over the years, has Google Search gotten better or worse (for you)? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> It's gotten better at guessing what I want when I throw a bunch of seemingly random words in (I.E. "song this arms race"), but it's gotten much much worse at string literal searches, and fuzzy searches (string literal searches where you're a relatively small levenstein distance from the actual string.

<comment><AUTHOR> I've had it with Google Search. It drives me up the wall these days.

If I'm on a mobile device, sometimes the entire page will be adverts styled to look like results. Sometimes it will just perform an alternate search (if there's no matches, show me an empty page!)

The final straw for me is that it now "helpfully" drops search terms on my behalf. I was already using DDG for a third of my searches. I'm going all-in now. For people who don't spend much time online, maybe what Google is doing works for them.

At this point, there are too many gotchas for me. I would gladly revert to Google the [+"way it was" +years +ago] I already know the terms that will show me what I want. Yes, I know about "Verbatim search" to which I constantly have to toggle and inexplicably breaks other features. Google just makes me jump through hoops now.</comment></comment>


USA Today Cites Fictional City "Lake Wobegon" - <AUTHOR> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/15/heroin-crackdown-oxycodone-hydrocodone/1963123/

<comment><AUTHOR> >In Minnesota, one in five people seeking treatment is addicted to opiates, says Carol Falkowski, the former drug abuse strategy officer for Minnesota and a member of the Community Epidemiology Working Group at the National Institute of Drug Abuse, which tracks trends in drug use. >"Heroin is huge. We've never had anything like it in this state," she says. "It's very affordable. It's very high purity. Most people did not believe that heroin would happen here in Lake Woebegone, but it really has a grip, not only in the Twin Cities, but all around the state."

From Wikipedia: > Lake Wobegon is a fictional town in the U.S. state of Minnesota, said to have been the boyhood home of Garrison Keillor, who reports the News from Lake Wobegon on the radio show A Prairie Home Companion.

Source: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Wobegon>

<comment><USER2> Umm.... USA Today didn't 'cite' anything. They published a quote with a mention of Lake Wobegon, which be interpreted to mean the state of Minnesota.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citation></comment></comment>


Alzheimers Drug Turns Back the Clock in Mitochondria - <AUTHOR> https://www.leafscience.org/alzheimers-drug-turns-back-the-clock-in-mitochondria/ <comment><USER2> "An experimental drug J147 reverses some symptoms of Alzheimer" but "researchers had to resolve the mystery of how it works". Is this the way how modern medicine has to work???

Dr Dale Bredesen, a scientist who developed a program to reverse _all_ symptoms of Alzeheimer and cures 9 out of 10 patients with early Alzheimer knows exactly what causes Alzheimer. He knows so much about Alzheimer that he identified 3 subtypes. His treatment focuses on 36 points since there are many factors that contribute to Alzheimer. He refers to Alzheimer as a roof with 36 holes and the necessity to plug all holes to stop having rain inside the house.</comment>


Statistics Done Wrong - <AUTHOR> https://www.statisticsdonewrong.com <comment><USER2> I really rate this book so it's great to see it getting some publicity!

I think one misnomer is that to do stats right you just need to do the math right. But what analysis is done in the first place, the overall methodology and how that data is interpreted are more often where we go wrong.

At Geckoboard we've been trying to raise awareness of some of these issues. Heres a poster we put together: [https://www.geckoboard.com/learn/data- literacy/statistical-f...](https://www.geckoboard.com/learn/data- literacy/statistical-fallacies/)

</comment><comment><USER3> Isn't most or all of this avoided by explicitly using Bayes' theorem along with a correct formalization of the domain?

E.g. for the mammogram:

P(cancer) = 0.8%

P(~cancer) = 1 - P(cancer) = 99.2%

P(positive_mammogram | cancer) = 90%

P(positive_mammogram | ~cancer) = 7%

P(cancer | positive_mammogram) = P(positive_mammogram | cancer) P(cancer) / (P(positive_mammogram | cancer) P(cancer) + P(positive_mammogram | ~cancer) (1 - P(cancer))) = 90% * 0.8% / (90% * 0.8% + 7% * 99.2%) = 9.39457%

<comment><USER4> Yes, most of the problems (with conditional probability, statistical tests, significance, etc) disappear once you express it in a Bayesian way (it's not only Bayes' formula - it explicitly creating a Bayesian model).

Basically, most of them boil down to:

\- mistakes that can be tackled if you write it down explicitly

\- hidden assumptions that can be discovered (and made explicit or modified)

While there is some philosophical difference between frequentist and Bayesian probability (and for some reason, I know people moving only one way).

"Frequentist probability is Bayesian probability, where priors are flat, hidden, and considered taboo".

BTW: Frequentists vs. Bayesians [https://xkcd.com/1132/](https://xkcd.com/1132/) (there is never too much of xkcd!)

<comment><USER5> That is fascinating. Which one is correct? Is Bayesian using more assumptions than Frequentist, namely the fact that repeated queries that haven't been done yet will show that the machine's answer is NO most of the time?

<comment><USER6> > Which one is correct?

The Bayesian is correct to offer the bet.

Who is correct about the sun exploding actually is irrelevant to that; only the conditional probability of the bet being collectable if the sun has exploded vs. that of it has not exploded is needed here. You would care about the probability that the sun actually had exploded if one of those weren't zero, but it is, so it doesn't matter.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> This is a great book. I read it a couple years ago and I remember a couple takeaways that apply well to AB testing:

1 - Monitoring tests on an ongoing basis and then calling them as soon as they hit some confidence threshold (like 95%) will give you biased results. It's important to determine your sample size up front and then let the test run all the way through, or at least be aware that the results are less reliable if you stop early.

2 - Testing for multiple metrics requires a much larger sample. If you run a test and then compare conversion rate, purchase amount, pageviews per session, retention, etc. etc., you'll have a much higher error rate since the more things you measure, the more likely you are to get an outlier. You either need to run a separate test for each metric or increase your sample size a lot to account for this effect (iirc the math for exactly how much is in the book).

<comment><USER8> Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed the book! (Author here -- the website got its first publicity here on HN.)

Regarding AB testing, you might be interested in this recent research, which uses real data from Optimizely to estimate how often people get AB test false positives because they stopped as soon as they hit significance: [https://ssrn.com/abstract=3204791](https://ssrn.com/abstract=3204791)

> Specifically, about 73% of experimenters stop the experiment just when a > positive effect reaches 90% confidence. Also, approximately 75% of the > effects are truly null. Improper optional stopping increases the false > discovery rate (FDR) from 33% to 40% among experiments p-hacked at 90% > confidence

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Another good curation [https://web.ma.utexas.edu/users/mks/statmistakes/StatisticsM...](https://web.ma.utexas.edu/users/mks/statmistakes/StatisticsMistakes.html)

How to Lie with Statistics by Darrell Huff [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Lie_with_Statistics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Lie_with_Statistics)

<comment><USER10> I don't remember the attribution, but one of my favorite quotes goes something like: "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics." I think I first remember seeing it in the foreword of a chapter in the book "Against the Gods: the Remarkable Story of Risk" by Peter Bernstein

<comment><USER11> It seems that no-one knows exactly where it's from. Was in use in the 1890s.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statist...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Highly recommend this book. I would consider myself experienced with many statistical methods but this book was still chock full of brilliant examples that let me look at things with fresh eyes. It was helpful also in giving me language to explain technical concepts to less technical folks.

<comment><USER13> yeah. the "base rate fallacy" example sheds some light on the pros/cons of mammogram results. one interesting thing about that section of the book is that it says medical doctors fall prey to the fallacy more often than not.

i always kind of wonder when i see a medical doctor explaining statistics to a general audience: do they really have this right?

<comment><USER14> I also found this passage about mammographers from "Moonwalking with Einstein" interesting:

For most mammographers, practicing medicine is not deliberate practice, according to Ericsson. It's more like putting into a tin cup than working with a coach. That's because mammographers usually only find out if they missed a tumor months or years later, if at all, at which point they've probably forgotten the details of the case and can no longer learn from their successes and mistakes.

One field of medicine in which this is definitively not the case is surgery. Unlike mammographers, surgeons tend to get better with time. What makes surgeons different from mammographers, according to Ericsson, is that the outcome of most surgeries is usually immediately apparent—the patient either gets better or doesn't—which means that surgeons are constantly receiving feedback on their performance.

<comment><USER15> Many of us in the software community know that if the feedback loop isn't fast enough, it doesn't work.

I wonder if you made mammographers spend a day a week analyzing mammograms from 5 years ago and then showing them the outcomes if they would get more accurate?

<comment><USER16> Well, that's pretty much like training a neural network, except that the integration of the matrix coefficients happens not from the immediate output data, but from data which was output by the network millions of epochs ago.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Along similar lines, Dr Ben Goldacre's _Bad Science_ is an excellent beginner's introduction to the scientific method. If you understand how quacks bamboozle unwitting journalists, you gain a key insight into what good science looks like.

[https://www.amazon.com/Bad-Science-Quacks-Pharma- Flacks/dp/0...](https://www.amazon.com/Bad-Science-Quacks-Pharma- Flacks/dp/0771035780)

</comment><comment><USER18> I think I never was in a developed field that was as error prone as statistics, both intentional (fraud, p value hacking, etc) and with honest mistakes.

<comment><USER19> Statistics might be seen as the process of rooting out errors and falsehoods. To come into contact with them is the goal (to eliminate them). :)

<comment><USER20> Indeed. It's the good statisticians that use good statistical methodology and theory to identify out errors and falsehoods.

Honest mistakes occur because what looks like a simple problem cannot always be analysed very easily (or in an obvious way).

Abuse occurs because it's quite easy to fool others that an analysis is sound - most people aren't sophisticated enough to identify problems, even if they are given the data!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> For practical statistic done well, I recommend "Sex by Numbers" by David Spiegelhalter ([https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Numbers-Wellcome-David- Spiegelhal...](https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Numbers-Wellcome-David- Spiegelhalter/dp/1781253293/)).

I am reading Sex by Numbers, which I enjoy a lot. It's a touchy subject with a lot of data of varying quality. A naive approach would be to take all of it. A dogmatic - to set an arbitrary (and subjective!) threshold, separating "good" from "bad" data. I love the way, in which it is done there, i.e. by grading sources by:

4: numbers that we can believe (e.g. births and deaths)

3: numbers that are reasonably accurate (e.g. well-designed & conducted surveys, e.g. the Natsal report)

2: numbers that could be out by quite a long way (e.g. non-uniform sampling, the Kinsey report)

1: numbers that are unreliable (e.g. surveys from newspapers, even with huge sample sizes)

0: numbers that have just been made up (e.g. "men think of sex every 7 seconds")

Just have a peek at the first chapter, which is freely accessible, and is exactly on data reporting, data reliability and dealing with subjective questions. A lot of thought is given about knowing the possible biases (e.g. people who are less likely to respond, who would like to downplay or exaggerate some things) and consistency of measurements.

So - in short: started reading to get curious facts about sex, ended up recommending to my data science students and mentees. (As the vast majority of problems starts with how you collects data, interpret it, and how well are you aware of its shortcomings).

</comment><comment><USER21> This has always been a great book [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Lie_with_Statistics](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Lie_with_Statistics)

</comment><comment><USER22> I thought this was going to a be a collection of statistics people really did wrong.

</comment><comment><USER23> I really loved xkcd 2059.

<comment><USER24> You make it sound like some type of ISO standard. :P</comment></comment>


Will Psychedelic Therapy Transform Mental Health Care? - <AUTHOR> https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/will-psychedelic-therapy-transform-mental-health-care-ncna805466 <comment><USER2> This is presenting psychedelics as a kind of cure-all for a variety of things that seem unrelated on its surface: anxiety, eating disorders, addiction, trauma, depression, etc. I would argue we are treating symptoms and not figuring out the causes behind these illnesses such that a single drug treats all of them.

I would also note that there are glaring holes: There's no research on sensory issues with psychedelic therapy, something that has co-morbidity with a variety of these disorders which will make treatment more difficult. Psychotic depression, bipolar whose manic symptoms enter psychosis, delusional thinking common in anxiety/depression/eating disorders, and sensory distortions common in PTSD/eating disorders...

I would temper my excitement about this until we can prove either why it works or the specific situations it works in, which I suspect will be far less than the cure-all it's being presented as here. It reminds me of immunotherapy, stem cell treatment, etc.

<comment><AUTHOR> > I would argue we are treating symptoms and not figuring out the causes > behind these illnesses such that a single drug treats all of them.

It's funny that you say that, because it seems that psychedelics may work for a variety of things because they address some lower-level factor, rather than just treating higher-level symptoms.

"In 6-month follow-up interviews, participants were asked: 'Did this treatment work for you, and if so how?' and responses were analysed for consistent themes (Watts et al. 2017). Of the 17 patients who endorsed the treatment's effectiveness, all made reference to one particular mediating factor: a renewed sense of connection or connectedness. This factor was found to have three distinguishable aspects: connection to (1) self, (2) others and (3) the world in general (Watts et al. 2017)."

"In brief, we have proposed that brain serotonin 2A receptor signalling mediates a state of rapid plasticity that is conducive to major change (e.g. in outlook and/or behaviour)—when such change feels necessary (e.g. to aid mental or physical survival). Such a function may be related to humans' unique capacity for adaptability."

Source/further reading: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28795211](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28795211)

<comment><USER3> I was able to use a half dozen or so psychs, dissos and MDMA to address issues the medical establishment can't/won't. I have official diagnosis of PTSD, GAD, Major Depression, ADHD and OCD. I was in a very, very bad accident as a child. While, I am "ok" with it in the Freudian sense, It just left me anxious all the time.

These things made dramatic changes to my personality, I was weak, shy, reserved. I'm now confident, self-actualized, empathetic. But they also did trigger DID which had been dormant for a decade. For me, this was actually a good thing. I made peace with those parts of me and I can call upon them when needed.

You kind of hit a wall with self-growth-- You're going to realize a lot of your friendships and relationships are unhealthy. You'll need to remove these unhealthy things. My employer was massively abusive (had to end that), and my wife, while not intentional puts massive amounts of stress on me due to some issues she doesn't care to work on.

People who refuse to grow, or want to keep treating you negatively will label your behavior crazy, and express concern for you when in reality they want to continue the negative patterns you had previously participated in.

I've also gotten to some really scary places mentally, with meditation and dissos achieved brief glimpses of "enlightenment". Which is far less interesting than it sounds. Enlightenment is actually rather lonely. Imagine your mind expanding into an infinite space, an infinite, empty space.

The hardest part has actually been my family. They don't recognize me because, for the first time in their lives, I am not completely, utterly miserable.

<comment><USER4> Re: enlightenment, you might find this subreddit useful. Even if you just want help dealing with negative states produced by meditation.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/streamentry/](https://www.reddit.com/r/streamentry/)

<comment><USER3> Hi, thank you very much!</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: Manage Linux users with GitHub teams - <AUTHOR> https://gitwarden.com <comment><AUTHOR> Hi HN!

This is a new project I've started recently that allows you to sync Linux user accounts with Github organization teams in a straightforward way. This greatly simplifies Linux user account management for any companies using Github that do not have the time, staff, or budget to go with a more traditional user management solution (LDAP, for example). It also makes it easier for users, since they can use an SSH key already added to their Github profile, requiring no extra effort to login.

I'd really appreciate any and all feedback you have of the landing page, service, or idea. I'll also be checking back throughout the day to answer any questions.

Thank you in advance for your help!

\- Ross</comment>


Ask HN: How do Dave&Buster's and Chuck-E-Cheese avoid anti-gambling laws? - <AUTHOR>

At arcades like this, you can often pay to play games which give you tickets depending on how well you do, and then exchange these for items of value, like XBoxes. Kids are allowed to play these games, so they can't legally be considered gambling, but...why not? <comment><USER2> The key is that for gambling to be gambling the element of skill has to be less important than the element of chance.

Otherwise it is a game of skill, not of chance.

So, lottery -> 0 skill -> game of chance

As soon as you get above a certain threshold of being able to influence the outcome of the game it is considered a game of skill.

good article here, apologies for the ad (just click 'skip'):

<http://www.phoneplusmag.com/articles/361FEAT4.html>

<comment><USER3> I'm imagining a really hard arcade game which costs a dollar to play, and if you win, you get a million dollars and the game can never be played again by anybody. The business makes money from players as they try to up their skill, and nets everything at the end minus the reward.

<comment><USER2> Go try it !!

Who knows, you just may have found a loophole. And if not I'll come visiting, promise ;).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> In addition to the skill/change thing, there's something I've been told by a Linden Labs employee (when they closed the casinos in Second Life) is that there's a specific provision for "game tokens" versus real money. That is, as long as all you can earn from gambling is tokens the government doesn't really care. Casino chips, however, are basically proxies for money and thus cannot be considered game tokens.</comment>


Nature manages information, the currency of life, with exquisite efficiency - <AUTHOR> http://nautil.us/issue/7/waste/nature-the-it-wizard

<comment><USER2> _"...Not only does DNA store information at a density per unit volume exceeding any other known medium, it can achieve one quarter of the maximum information density allowed by the laws of physics..."_

Hmm... That number 1/4 of the Bekenstein bound seems suspicious. A quick search gives:

[http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2013/05/22/can-data- storag...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2013/05/22/can-data-storage-ever- reach-an-absolute-limit/)

 _" A gram of dry DNA is about one cubic centimeter, so the radius is 0.0062 meters. So, the best DNA storage can do with those dimensions is 5.6_10^15 bits. A Bekenstein-bound storage device with those dimensions would store about 1.6 _10^38 bits. "_

That's 10^22 difference. Not 1/4\. That's more like it ... A Bekenstein bound is Plank-level. Around 8mb per something like a volume of an electron. And DNA uses chemical level. Configurations of atoms.

<comment><USER3> Agreed. The interesting thing about DNA is not its raw storage capabilities, but with how it interacts with itself and its environment to expose and withdraw certain portions of itself for protein synthesis.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> >A fractal drawn on a two-dimensional sheet of paper, for example, has a higher dimension—say, 2.1. This is a useful feature, allowing nature to pack some part of a fourth dimension into three-dimensional space.

if i remember correctly fractal can't have dimension higher than the space it is embedded in. It can have dimension higher than its local dimension though (that what makes it a fractal :) - a fractal drawn on a 2D plane using lines has local dimension of 1 while it's fractal dimension can be anything up to 2, yet can't be greater than 2. The same way with nervous system, blood arteries/veins - these are just 1D pipes locally, yet as fractals they get to 2.x thus achieving good density in 3D volume of the body with amount/size much less than just a regular network of pipes would do.

<comment><USER5> Short version: Yes a fractal in a 2D piece of paper must have dimension at most 2.

Long version: There are a lot of definitions of fractal dimension ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausdorff_dimension](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausdorff_dimension) , [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minkowski%E2%80%93Bouligand_dim...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minkowski%E2%80%93Bouligand_dimension) , ...) but they are not equivalent.

In all the sensible dimensions, if X is included in Y then dim(X) <= dim(Y). I'm tempted to write that this holds in every possible dimension, but I think that there are no official criteria to classify something as a fractal dimension. Anyone can propose a new definition of a new fractal dimension, and if it does not have some minimal property it will be simply ignored. The problem is that the set of minimal properties is not well defined, it's more a mater of mathematical taste and usage adoption in the mathematical comunity.

More technical details:

For example, a nice property is that the dimension is countably additive. The Hausdorf dimension has this property, but the box counting dimension doesn't have this property. Should we eliminate the box counting dimension?

On the other hand it's easier to estimate the box counting dimension than the Hausdorf dimension. So, what definition is more useful?

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I found the lack of citations in this article to be both disappointing and suspicious. When you conclude "we will need a vastly different approach to science in order to understand the higher-order, emergent capabilities of nature's self-organizing structures", I feel like more evidence is required. Though the author did mention some exciting ideas and research, she left it to the audience to follow up on where she might have gotten them from.

</comment><comment><USER7> >Not only does DNA store information at a density per unit volume

I'm surprised the author didn't mention that the human DNA sequence is ~750 megabytes of data.[1] And that 750MB is replicated billions (or trillions) of times across all living cells of the body. A sort of living organism RAID redundancy.

[1][http://newsroom.ucr.edu/1776](http://newsroom.ucr.edu/1776)

</comment><comment><USER8> This article takes a broad view of an interesting subject. You twits are arguing over the tiniest of minutiae and completely missing the big picture. Both the fractal dimension inaccuracy and the issue of information density within DNA are entirely irrelevant to the thesis being put forward. This is something I really dislike about hacker news.

<comment><USER6> This is something I like about hacker news. There are people here who recognize that a thesis stands on the accuracy of its arguments.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> The article implies fractal dimension, e.g. a 2.1 dimensional fractal on a 2D sheet, could allow more computation.

Is that true? Could one make CPU on a 2D chip surface in a fractal pattern and use that for faster computation? Or fancy supercomputer topologies?

I always thought fractal dimension was more of an abstract concept, not actually practical. Sounds awesome though.

<comment><USER10> I think `trhway above has it right. A 2.1 dimensional fractal would be very much like a bumpy sheet in 3-space. A 2.9 dimensional fractal would be a fairly convoluted crumpled sheet. [0]

You'd be amazed how much of the fractal stuff is practical. You don't need to deal with infinities before it becomes useful. For example, fractal antennas can filter for multiple frequencies well (instead of tuning for just one perfectly)[1]. On this topic, check out space-filling curve - it's pretty cool stuff, and the wiki page has a nice diagram of the Peano curve[2].

It's sort of like imaginary numbers. At first glance they seem like a very theoretical construct, but it soon becomes apparent they're everywhere. You can't hardly do any sort of electrical engineering with out them. Likewise with fractals (and the oft associated field of chaos).

[0] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal_dimension#Introduction](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal_dimension#Introduction) See paragraph 3. It makes intuitive sense as you see a 1-dimensional line fill the space of a 2-dimensional plane.

[1] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal_antenna](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal_antenna)

[2] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space- filling_curve](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-filling_curve)

EDIT: whoops, missed a reference. (And sorry they're all Wikipedia - there's a ton of great material on this stuff. Many books on chaos will talk about fractals extensively, but the best don't shy from the math!)

<comment><USER11> I don't think putting 'fractals' on the front of a discussion is very useful. A line segment is a fractal. A dot is a fractal. Everything can be a fractal in the right light. Of course they are useful -- but not usually just because they are fractals.

It's too much woo.</comment></comment></comment>


Come help us build something better - <AUTHOR> Ordermark |ordermark.com | Los Angeles, CA | Senior/Lead Backend Engineers ONSITE - Full-Time firstname.lastname@example.com The problem we are solving
We are building a highly scalable and maintainable SaaS solution that aggregates online food orders from across several disparate Online Ordering Service platforms into a single printer/tablet or POS system at each of our client restaurant locations.
We are hiring
We are seeking exceptional Software Engineering talent who will bring their passion for both building efficient systems and delighting customers. You will get the opportunity to leverage your technical expertise with architecture, frameworks, performance, security, automated testing, and more to help build our product. You will be able to utilize your experience with building scalable solutions as you play an integral role in the ongoing engineering of Ordermark's mobile, web, and/or backend platforms.
Our tech stack Languages/Frameworks: Python, Django, Celery, Typescript/Javascript, React & Redux Databases: Google Datastore, PostgreSQL <comment><USER2>
      aggregates online food orders from across several disparate Online Ordering

Rentseeking two layers deep.</comment>


If Only: FizzBin, a secret code to get better tech support - <AUTHOR> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/FizzBinTheTechnicalSupportSecretHandshake.aspx

<comment><USER2> I noticed this comment: "When I reapply to jobs, I intend to put something similar on my resume, upper right corner.

What exactly is still up in the air, but perhaps something like a[5] == 5[a], More Magic, or 0x5f3759d5."

I get that "More Magic" is from this story (<http://catb.org/esr/jargon/html/magic-story.html>) and that "0x5f3759d5" is from Quake's Fast Inverse Square Root code ([http://betterexplained.com/articles/understanding-quakes- fas...](http://betterexplained.com/articles/understanding-quakes-fast-inverse- square-root/)).

I think a Steve Yegge post mentioned the equivalence of the a[5] == 5[a] principle but I can't seem to find any reference online expanding on this - anyone care to elaborate on this principle and/or possibly link the post if it actually exists?

<comment><USER3> My C is really weak (I'm a Ruby guy) but here's the best I can do.

Two things make this work: 1, in C, an array can be treated like a pointer that points to the first element of the array. 2, pointers have a subscript notation.

That is, for a pointer p, p[i] is the same is * (p + i). (where pointer addition goes by sizeof the thing pointed to).

So, a[5] is really * (a + 5) ... and 5[a] is * (5 + a). Same thing, although 5[a] looks really weird and will make people hate you if you use it.

<http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/languages/fortran/append-c.html> was helpful in reminding me of the specifics, since I couldn't find my K&R.

<comment><USER2> Awesome thanks :-)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> No, please don't do this. I've worked on both sides of tech support, and simply saying "FizzBin" or any other silly phrase doesn't give either party any actual information about the other's knowledge.

I use Firefox -> FizzBin I am a Firefox developer -> FizzBin

I know what an ethernet card is -> FizzBin I advised IEEE on ethernet communications -> FizzBin

I am a brilliant electrical engineer -> FizzBin I am a brilliant electrical engineer that doesn't understand software at all and I have a huge chip on my shoulder too -> FizzBin

NO.

The "geek handshake" is far simpler, and more informative. When calling, tell the technician everything you've already done to diagnose / troubleshoot the problem, using whatever terminology you're comfortable with:

"Hi, I'm having a weird problem with this DSL connection, it's a new connection and I've got a sync/no-surf on the modem. The VCI and VPI settings look like they're correct, they're 0/35. The computer can connect to the modem just fine. I have no DNS and no ping to a known good IP."

If the technician then says, "OK sir, and have you tried restarting the computer?", then you know you're dealing with an idiot. Escalate it.

If the technician says, "OK, well I can get an ATM ping to your line so it looks like a faulty unit, we'll ship you another one", then you're done.

I've used this for years.

<comment><USER5> Not to mention, what happens when inevitably idiots with delusions of competence catch on and everyone from Granny to Clueless IT Manager start saying it reflexively.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Since we find unintended consequences interesting, I'll suggest that Fizzbin (which is a Trekkie reference, natch) will not work as Scott suggests.

Tech support workers are crowded into cubicle farms and pressured to process as many tickets per hour as possible, with managers applying brutal metrics and quotas to them. Their incentive is to get off the phone quickly.

A nerd on the other end of the phone will be perceived as a demanding, chatty customer who will not go along meekly with whatever the tech suggests, but who will instead challenge every suggestion and insist on complicated and time- consuming investigations.

Therefore, I predict that the moment you utter the code word, the tech will get you off the phone by any means necessary, including blatant lies or accidentally hanging up on you in the hope that when you call back you will torture another tech.

<comment><USER4> I'd guess that to only be true if the tech isn't also a nerd.

Nerd-to-nerd communications usually run at full duplex with compression on.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> This goes both ways, you never know if the technician knows what their talking about or if they're just another dolt reading from a script.</comment>


Golden Ratio Grids - <AUTHOR> http://chadlindemann.com/pages/blog.php?d=1

<comment><USER2> This is doable with any grid framework: use a rounded 1:ϕ ratio between small and large classes, and you're good to go. Although this is neat.</comment>


Show HN: easy email forwarding for domains, my Sunday impulse project - <AUTHOR> http://improvmx.com/ <comment><AUTHOR> I launch quite a lot of MVPs and microsites and setting up info@, support@, etc. addresses for them is a huge PITA. The solutions while plentiful are all very clumsy and annoying (especially since Google Apps closed free plan). So I set out to create one that doesn't suck. Hope it's useful to others!</comment>