TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months - <AUTHOR> https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Huawei-crackdown/TSMC-plans-to-halt-chip-supplies-to-Huawei-in-2-months <comment><USER2> I see this news as a loss for the US. It has to resort to regulations to stop TSMC from doing business with Huawei. When you can't incentivize your ally, that means your opponent's business is still very attractive. Regulations will only cripple your ally. Taiwan may comply on the outside. But inside, they'll cut under-the-table deals with China. They'll find loop holes to skirt regulations.

Taiwan seems to be heading to be the next Hong Kong. Their political class is still publicly resistant. But their business leaders are slowly surrendering. At some point, the political class will follow. The US will then need to rely on the activism of the young renegade "colonels" like Joshua Wong. Crippling an ally can buy the US some time. But it is losing ground.

<comment><USER3> The US will defend Taiwan by any means necessary, including nuclear options. If they don't, they've already lost to China. Chip superiority is everything. If the US can't manufacture or source modern chips then it's over for them. US leaders and the military know this to be true. Taiwan is not Hong Kong. The US doesn't _need_ Hong Kong. The US _needs_ Taiwan.

<comment><USER4> > The US will defend Taiwan by any means necessary

Under a normal president, sure. Under this one, who can't decide if he hates China or loves Xi? All fucking bets are off

<comment><USER5> I find your lack of faith disturbing.

[0] [https://taskandpurpose.com/news/navy-aircraft-carriers- south...](https://taskandpurpose.com/news/navy-aircraft-carriers-south-china- sea)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> SMIC, the mainland supplier expected to replace TSMC, successfully IPOs with a massive jump:

[https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/16/smic-chinas-biggest- chipmake...](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/16/smic-chinas-biggest-chipmaker- surges-in-shanghai-listing.html)

JUL 15 2020

SMIC, China's biggest chipmaker, saw its shares surge 245% at the open on its first day of trade in Shanghai.

SMIC issued issuing 1,685,620,000 shares at 27.46 yuan per share, raising 46.28 billion yuan ($6.62 billion). Shares were trading at 95 yuan at the open.

<comment><USER7> SMIC isn't close to the same node as TSMC. A competitive high-end SOC could not be manufacured by them.

<comment><USER8> When Intel refused to make Apple's ARM processor for iPhones, TSMC was also unable to build a competitive high-end SOC. And yet 13 years later, here we are. Of course, Intel and TSMC both shop with ASML, and that's not a possibility anymore for SMIC, so it's not a quite similar comparison...

Yet I think it's important to keep some perspective: this Chinese/US spat is not a championship where a winner will be declared at the end of the summer. There's no reason to believe that 50 years from now either China or US will have collapsed. Xi Jinping dictatorial inclinations [1] are a threat of course, as he might decide to consolidate his power at the expense of China. But US recent [2] trend of politicians running on the hate of the other half of the US population is also a tremendous existential threat.

In any case, assuming that both US and China still stand 50 years from now, the only way for TSMC, Samsung or even Intel to stay ahead is, well, to stay ahead. It's a never-ending marathon, and in that regard funneling Huawei money into SMIC sounds very counter-productive.

[1] Moreso than his predecessors IMHO, with the notable exception of Mao. And indeed, Mao was very good at keeping China poor, underdeveloped and starving.

[2] Is it really recent? I'm French, during my two stays in the US (first time 3 years, second time 5 years) I felt a major polarization of the population, but it might have been there all along and I simply didn't notice.

<comment><USER9> >TSMC was also unable to build a competitive high-end SOC. And yet 13 years later, here we are.

I think this doesn't paint an accurate picture. TSMC were "high end" sans Intel. Since you cant Fab with Intel, TSMC was the best any Fabless Vendor could get, now it just happen TSMC is also the best in industry.

Compared to SMIC, they aren't even close to TSMC, nor Samsung, or even Global Foundry. In Tech lead, Volume and yield. To put things into perspective, they will have to accelerate at 2x the speed of current industry's rate for the next 5 years in other to be level with TSMC.

SMIC's 14nm is still no where near Samsung, or even Global Foundry ( GF ). And GF has been shipping 14nm in volume for nearly 5 years now.

<comment><USER8> You are right indeed, TSMC probably didn't need Apple cash to get to where they are now. I forgot that for a very long time Apple was shopping at Samsung...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I'm actually cautiously excited about new competition in high end semiconductor fabrication. Huawei and China won't just sit around twiddling their thumbs, they've got to manufacture chips somehow/somewhere.

<comment><USER11> What you missed is the massive global interconnected supply chain that goes into building the fab (not the building, but the process equipment and software).

China's isolationism will cause massive pains to do it all in house. If they can, we are all fucked.

<comment><USER12> Their monoculture provides a lower ceiling for capability than the world at large. We aren't remotely fucked.

<comment><USER13> What you are calling monoculture is somewhere around 1/6th population of the world. If you take into the account the inroads that China has made into Africa, Middle East and Eastern Europe we might be seeing ourselves entering another phase of the cold war.

<comment><USER14> Those inroads are disintegrating.

The quality of the deliverables hasn't been great, they have been poorly managed and have left many countries either in significant debt or with onerous obligations.

<comment><USER15> That's the problem with state-driven investment. Most people are lazy and/or greedy, and given a known state-sponsored payday, have no incentive to deliver quality.

So even if the Chinese state may want the projects to go well, the conduit by which the projects are funded and managed doesn't have much more than shame and prison as sticks, and that's only for people who are caught.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Apparently this is the result of a May 15 rule change[0] to the Export Administration Regulations[1], which affect anything exported from the US.

The lesson here is that if you're a foreign company that buys US software and equipment, apparently the US government can tell you who you are and aren't allowed to do business with.

[0] [https://www.commerce.gov/news/press- releases/2020/05/commerc...](https://www.commerce.gov/news/press- releases/2020/05/commerce-addresses-huaweis-efforts-undermine-entity-list- restricts)

[1] [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_Administration_Regula...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_Administration_Regulations)

PS. Some hilarious quotes from the DoC announcement:

> "Huawei and its foreign affiliates have stepped-up efforts to undermine > these national security-based restrictions through an indigenization effort. > However, that effort is still dependent on U.S. technologies," said > Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross. "This is not how a responsible global > corporate citizen behaves. "

Maybe it's just me but the term "global corporate citizen" just seems so absurd and dystopian.

<comment><USER17> Wondering if America government has the power to forbid foreign companies or countries from using open source software such as Go, Rust, React, Kubernetes, Docker, Ubuntu etc especially those with strong stewardship by US corporations.

<comment><USER18> That seems like a "no". Anyone can get access to those things as they are freely downloaded. Access may get restricted but they can keep an old copy indefinitely, and the internet is fairly useful for getting around arbitrary blockages.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Why does this feel like the USA cutting Japan off from metal and oil shipments months before WW2?

<comment><USER20> If foundations of geopolitics is anything real, then pitting the US vs China would be the ultimate best outcome. The book believes China is the true threat to Russia and "must, to the maximum degree possible, be dismantled".

As secondary goal would be the disruption of the US which also has been propping China up.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics#Con...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics#Content)

<comment><USER19> "Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro- American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S."

They seem to be getting that part right...

<comment><USER21> The interesting thing is how they're succeeding. We haven't exactly seen a resurgence of the Klan of late, you might notice.

What's happening instead is that anything that can even be vaguely construed as racist, even if it doesn't hold up under scrutiny -- especially then -- becomes the subject of mob focus and attack.

Because if you can convince the mob to "righteously" attack innocent targets then you get fireworks. The mob is told that they're on the side of the angels and the target is a despicable fascist who should burn in hell, so they cross every line to take out the intolerable evil. Then it turns out the target wasn't, in actual fact, the literal devil, and that gets other people hopping mad at the mob over the real perils of mob justice. But by that point the mob has moved on to the next target who we're again assured is a very bad person, this time for real, promise.

It's tempting to go too far with this and come up with some kind of conspiracy theory where BLM as a whole is nothing but a Russian plot, but there are far too many real people in it for that.

What seems more likely is that you have an existing movement with many well- intentioned people but no strong leaders, and all it takes is an adversarial propaganda effort to whip enough of them into a frenzy and point them at a false target that will purposely generate a backlash.

Then you've got two huge camps of honest people fighting each other over a manufactured conflict which isn't even at the root of their genuine concerns.

<comment><USER22> >>We haven't exactly seen a resurgence of the Klan of late, you might notice.

Are you serious? While the Klan may be played out new fascist/racist groups are definitely on the march. Google "Boogaloo boys" as just one example.

<comment><USER21> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boogaloo_movement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boogaloo_movement) :

> The specific ideology of each group varies, and views on topics such as race > differ widely. Some are white supremacist or neo-Nazi groups who believe > that the impending unrest will be a race war; other groups condemn racism > and white supremacy.

> opinions on racism and attitudes towards law enforcement are among the views > that differ the most between groups in the movement

> 4chan

> The term boogaloo alludes to the 1984 cult sequel Breakin' 2: Electric > Boogaloo

> Hawaiian shirts

> satirical

It's the exact thing you would expect when the other side is desperately searching for an enemy to smash. Literally attention-seeking trolls from 4chan show up in a place and manner that causes people to pay attention to them.

Then law enforcement will take them seriously, because they have to, which gives them exactly the false legitimacy they're after.

And in any event not much of a big bad fascist/racist group when they can't even agree whether they're racists and the thing they do agree on is that they're anti-government, i.e. the complete opposite of fascism.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Doesn't seem to worry them too much: [https://www.thestreet.com/investing/tsmc-posts- record-q2-pro...](https://www.thestreet.com/investing/tsmc-posts- record-q2-profit-sees-robust-chip-demand-in-2020)

<comment><USER24> We do seem to be in a secular upswing in semiconductor demand, while TSMC remains the last foundry standing at the 7nm node. It seems like Samsung and Intel alternatives are bit too captive (internally competitive) for a large mobile phone producer. I don't think it's about actual 5G chips themselves, it's about ARM processors and mobile SoCs.

It's doubtful to me that UMC and Global Foundries will catch up, but I do wonder at the long term effects. There are many billions of Yuan to spend on solving this problem. In the past they could get enough of the right people to move to China as they did with OLED.

<comment><USER25> The next shoe to drop will be if ASML cuts off Chinese chipmakers. ASML absolutely dominates fab tech.

<comment><USER26> Or the Dutch government bows to pressure from the US and makes the decision for them.

<comment><USER27> Or maybe they did it by themselves because they are capable of independent decision making. Just the other day someone here was loudly proclaiming we shouldn't be interested in US politics from overseas because it doesn't affect us. HN should make up its mind about this in a well reasoned way.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> What this means is that TSMC stops producing Huawei designed chips. Huawei has to buy third party designed and manufactured chips, most likely MediaTek. Manufactured in TSMC factories but not Huawei designed or Huawei owned IP.

<comment><AUTHOR> IIRC, if you want to use 5G/4G with MTK chip, you need to pay license fee to QCOM? and US can still ban this.

<comment><USER28> No. MediaTek customers don't pay incenses fro QCOM.

US has not prevented Intel, AMD, or Qualcomm from selling their chips to China. Why it would prevent Taiwanese companies doing so?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> The founder of SMIC on the mainland is actually Taiwanese and a former TSMC executive. Loyalties cut across the strait both ways, westerners overemphasis attachment to values and ideology over bloodlines and ancestry. It's true for some but not for others. There are quite a lot of foreign engineers working on the mainland, especially Taiwanese engineers. If you are a industry vet or got some kind of special talent you can easily 3x your salary by moving to the mainland from Taiwan.

For example, Justin Yifu Lin, the former World Bank chief economist was a Taiwanese defector who to swam to Mainland China. Before he defected in the (early 90's I believe) he was a rising star within the establishment in Taiwan.

Short term definitively bad for Huawei, but the long term it should help the development of the indigenous semiconductor industry on the mainland. Necessity is the mother of invention and nowhere else is there the capital, political will and now sheer necessity as there is on the Mainland.

A lot of "huaqiao" i.e. overseas Chinese that go back to the mainland (I include Taiwanese people here) despite the repressive political atmosphere and bad environmental quality, food safety are motivated by this. In the West you can only go so far, back there, especially if you have specialized technical knowledge, you have a chance to make an impact at scale that would never be possible in the West.

I am not sure what the U.S. can really do about this without adopting essentially the same repression as in China. I.E. control the flow of personal. On the mainland if you are a leading expert in this field or that, or belong to specific establishments (such as public security or state security) you cannot exit the country without permission from higher up the food chain.

Anyways, my point at the end, is the central point of competitive advantage or a company or nation is human talent. You can restrict technology or natural resources but it's human beings that make a company or a nation competitive. So unless the U.S. finds a way to prevent talent from flowing to the mainland, either from the U.S. and/or other parts of the world it is very hard to prevent another country, especially such a big one from doing what you don't want. And when they eventually do get to that point they will be twice as bitter at you for having tried to stop them.

<comment><USER30> This piece smells like ccp propaganda. Read the above after considering those muslims who are chained in a ccp re-education center in china.

@Dang can you investigate this. I feel like the ccp is directly targeting hacker news to spread misinformation. Very scary.

<comment><USER31> You guys need to understand that there are many categories of users who might post something like that in good faith.

First, a lot of Westerners hold anti-Western views—for whatever reason. This leads them to pro-China positions as a matter of tactics—the enemy of my enemy etc.

Second, a lot of Westerners hold anti-US views. That's similar to category 1 but different. We see this from some Canadian, Australian, and European users, and of course even from some American users—again, for whatever reason; people are complicated. This sort of user will also take China's side in a China/US conflict, for reasons of their own that have nothing to do with being Chinese communists.

Third, there are Westerners of Chinese background, either immigrants or children of immigrants, who have pro-China views because they identify with the Chinese dimension of their family history. Sometimes the children of immigrants have more strident views on these things than their parents. Where the parents naturally sought to fit in as immigrants in the West, the next generation tries to balance the two worlds by leaning back towards the country of origin. This group is the most likely to sound like "CCP propaganda" because they have deep knowledge of the culture and usually the language. And of course, if they're first-generation immigrants, their English may not sound native.

Fourth, there are Westerners of non-Chinese background who have spent a lot of time in China, usually for work (less often for travel), who developed pro- Chinese views, or complex/ambivalent views, simply by the natural process of having spent time there. This sort of user often feels like their fellow Westerners have a cartoonish and ignorant view of China, and wants to educate them. Sometimes they 'educate' them by insulting their ignorance, which is unhelpful. These users have native English and can sound like ardent propagandists as well, but actually their motive is to correct what they perceive as a distortion in Western public opinion. Their own views tend to be critical of the CCP, but they dislike what they regard as ignorant anti- Chinese views, and so will argue a pro-China position out of contrarianism. They tend to favor friendly trade and political relations with China, and since the trend of the last few years has been clearly against that, they can come across as rather aggrieved.

Fifth, there are many people who grew up in China, who came to the West for school (or work) and stayed here. Often they are caught between two worlds—having to defend the West and their choice to stay there to their families back home, and at the same time struck painfully by the ignorance, misunderstanding and hostility that they encounter about China here. HN has such users and they are in a difficult position: vastly outnumbered on intense, divisive questions that they happen to have deep personal experience of.

Sometimes these categories also intersect: for example there are Canadian children of Chinese-Canadian immigrants who speak Mandarin and have spent time working at tech companies in China. Their views come from having grown up in a Chinese-Canadian family and having spent time in China itself, and they feel demeaned and even slurred by the generalizations about China that they see on Western internet forums. They show up in the threads with counterarguments, and their counterarguments are often intensely detailed because they have so much personal experience with the topics.

Can you see how complex this situation is? Each of these categories is a minority on HN, but HN is big enough that 'minority' can still mean thousands of people, any of whom may comment in a thread like this—and no doubt there are additional categories that I didn't list (edit: here's another: Westerners with Chinese spouses). Any of these users can post what seem like absurdly pro-CCP comments in a HN thread, for complicated reasons that come from their own life experience. When they do that, other users run into their comments with no idea of the background that would lead someone to post that way, and it creates a shock experience. (For more on the shock experience, see [1] and [2]). Basically, they go 'WTF?' and wonder how anyone could possibly post like this.

Now here comes the pivot in the whole business. When you experience that 'WTF?', you have two choices. First choice, you can say "wow, I wonder how different our experiences must be that you would post what seems to me like such an obviously wrong and evil comment!" That fork leads to curious conversation in which people get to know each other better. Second choice, you can say "You must be a communist party shill! No one would post like this for any other reason! How much are they paying you?" Which percentage of HN users makes the first choice vs. the second choice? Exercise for the reader.

[1] [https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...](https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20%22shock%20experience%22&sort=byDate&type=comment)

[2] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23308098](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23308098)

<comment><USER30> Thank you for the well written and thought out response. I do agree with you that there are users who would post that in good faith, and I think your 4 categories of people make sense.

My concern was based on intuition which in turn was based on the fact that I have seen a lot more pro ccp comments in recent months on HN, as well as seeing that people who openly question the ccp in ways such as their human rights records, diversity, IP theft, etc be downvoted when raising these points. Although this may be anecdotal and is definitely not proof of interference, I thought it would be wise to finally raise the issue with you.

Thank you for taking a look at this, and for all the work you do on keeping HN a healthy environment.

<comment><USER31> I think what you're perceiving as happening in HN comments is a consequence of the macro social/geopolitical trend. There is a growing rift between the West and China, and especially between the U.S. and China. It has complex interactions with growing political divisions in the West (and especially the U.S.). This cluster of topics is being increasingly covered in Western media, in an increasingly polarized way. HN users are not coming to HN to talk about this stuff from a blank slate—they're coming with pre-existing views that are conditioned by whatever media and online sources they're engaged with, as well as by their own life experience, as I described above.

What all that means is that we're likely to continue to see more pro- and anti- comments on China-related topics, for reasons that are easily explained by the dynamics in our own societies. Reaching for "CCP shill" as an explanation is unnecessary, and to some extent is harmful because it reflects an assumption that no one could hold certain views in good faith, when we know for a fact that some people in fact do hold those views in good faith—again, for reasons of their own life experience.

This does _not_ imply that we're closed to investigating claims of abuse and manipulation. On the contrary, our contract with HN users is that if someone is worried about abuse, they're always welcome to let us know at firstname.lastname@example.com and we will always take a look. I wrote new code the other day to help with such investigations. Another part of our contract with HN users is that we will tell the truth about what we find. The truth is that we haven't found even a trace of anything like that on HN—just a lot of human beings with very different backgrounds and very strong feelings. There's more about this at [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23839602](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23839602) from a couple days ago.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> article conveniently doesnt mention the fact that huawei's 5g chip isnt sourced from an American design, rather its the Balong 5000 which has been around since january of 2019. the 16 nm chipset can easily be cranked out from Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation (SMIC) in mainland china, which is capable of 14nm runs. barring that, GlobalFoundries as they havent expressed any serious interest in Americas trade war witch hunt masquerading as a security concern.

<comment><USER3> According to the US DoJ they use technology which was stolen from US companies, so it's at least partially American design.

<comment><USER33> 5G design stolen from America..sure

<comment><USER3> Huawei had an encrypted email address explicitly for stolen trade secrets and offered bonuses up to employees who delivered stolen tech and secrets. [1]

[1] [https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/chinese-telecommunications- de...](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/chinese-telecommunications-device- manufacturer-and-its-us-affiliate-indicted-theft-trade)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> I don't like the CCP but I also find it extremely distasteful how the US is always bossing around their smaller allies. Alliance with the US is such a one sided deal.

America is a poor role model. Through these actions it is really just telling China that "night is right" It is like saying "When you become as powerful as us, you also get to boss around small countries"

I really wish the world was not as dominated by a few hyper powers.

<comment><USER35> > I also find it extremely distasteful how the US is always bossing around > their smaller allies.

Imo, you can boss around but only when you're acting like a "father figure" to the rest of the world.

Right now, the US is acting more like a grown-up baby.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> Oh nice they help to make Chinese chip manufacturing stronger...probably not what Taiwan want's.

</comment><comment><USER37> If China didn't hate Taiwan enough...

<comment><USER38> I'm sure the feeling is reciprocated.

Taiwan is being bullied 24/7 by China. They even have Chinese military jets doing "military exercises" in the Taiwan fly zones.

[https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/voa-news- china/chi...](https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/voa-news-china/china- sends-8-military-planes-taiwan-airspace-analysts-see-move)

<comment><USER39> The bully really stems of that some do not recognise "one China", which is not the point of view in Beijing. You cannot say it's bully if Taiwan is part of China.

If you have doubt, search "1992 Consensus".

<comment><USER40> Stop spreading artificial history like "1992 Consensus". It was not even mentioned in the 1992 meeting.

<comment><USER39> The real history disagrees, they are widely available on the internet as well as plenty of history references in real libraries.

<comment><USER40> George Orwell already demonstrated this long time before: Who controls the present controls the past. Most Taiwanese have been realizing that the so- called 1992 consensus is a total nonsense.

I believe you read Chinese, so please check: [https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%B9%9D%E4%BA%8C%E5%85%B1%E8...](https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%B9%9D%E4%BA%8C%E5%85%B1%E8%AD%98#%E5%90%A6%E8%AA%8D%E4%B9%9D%E4%BA%8C%E5%85%B1%E8%AD%98%E7%9A%84%E6%94%BF%E9%BB%A8%E5%92%8C%E5%9C%98%E9%AB%94)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> TSMC's headquarters is in Taiwan. Wonder if these kinds of issues will make China do to Taiwan what it did to Hongkong.

</comment><comment><USER42> I feel like this plays into China's hand. Now Huawei and China will build up their own microchip design and manufacture capabilities which will, at some point, rival the west. Strictly from a strategic standpoint, it seems like keeping China dependent on US technology is a good way to maintain hegemony

</comment><comment><USER43> Excuse my ignorance, why Huawei just does not ditch TSMC (snapdragons) and only improve/use HiSilicon Kirin?

<comment><USER44> "Snapdragon" is a core designed by Qualcomm (based on ARM IP), which is a fabless semiconductor company, and has no relation to Huawei. TSMC is a semiconductor foundry (fab) company that does not design any chips but manufacturers them for other companies. Kirin is currently being manufactured by TSMC for Huawei, but will not be in 2 months.

<comment><USER43> Okey, why they don't manufacture Kirin in HiSilicon then?

<comment><USER45> HiSilicon does not own a fab. They're just like Qualcomm, a fabless design house.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> China will probably "buy" a lot of chip making experts around the world to catch up. Anyway it's good to have more competition.

</comment><comment><USER47> What's to prevent China from re-branding Huawei, or something along those lines? Then, US / UK / Taiwanese companies could say: we're no longer dealing with Huawei. We're dealing with Uawei. It's different? China could do something like that indefinitely, as a workaround, no? Or, China could just have any number of new shell companies order TSMC parts, and then hand them over to Huawei.

<comment><USER48> > Then, US / UK / Taiwanese companies could say: we're no longer dealing with > Huawei.

This is one of the big differences between laws and code, and many programmers get this confused. In code, intention does not matter. What code you write, is what the CPU executes.

In law intention matters. If you came before a judge and pleaded innocent because Huawei changed their name to Uawei, the judge is going to laugh as they sentence you to the same punishment as supporting Huawei.

<comment><USER10> He's downvoted but he's got a point. What if it's not as simple as just changing their name? What if you dismantle Huawei and sell it off to "other" companies, operating independently and/or cooperating with each other?

At some point it would be extremely hard to say "this is still Huawei".

The US gov should've banned all major Chinese companies, because that seems like a big loophole to me. Even then it still seems like just a temporary measure.

<comment><USER49> I think they're on the way to banning them, just a matter of time.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> I've heard rumors that MediaTek, another Taiwanese chip company, could be supplying Huawei[1]. How will it get around US sanctions?

[1][https://www.androidcentral.com/mediatek-huawei-silicon- savio...](https://www.androidcentral.com/mediatek-huawei-silicon-savior-tsmc)

<comment><USER51> MediaTek is fabless and relies on TSMC. I am sure MediaTek could be pressured as well. Also going from in-house designed SoC/Modem to third-party is still detrimental.

</comment></comment><comment><USER52> I feel bad for the hard working people at huawei. But also, fuck the CCP.

<comment><USER31> Please don't. You may not owe the CCP better, but you owe this community better if you're posting to it. We want curious conversation, not denunciatory rhetoric. Those two are mutually exclusive.

The idea is: if you have a substantive point to make, make it thoughtfully; if you don't, please don't comment until you do. [https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

Here's another way to look at it. When posting, ask this question: what's the expected value of the subthread of which this is the root? If the answer, as in this case, is "poor to destructive", please don't post. [https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...](https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20%22expected%20value%22&sort=byDate&type=comment)

<comment><USER52> I'm sorry, maybe I didn't fully explain my point or was too blunt about it? It seems its too late to delete the root comment now so in future I'll try to be a bit more detailed and not just post a one line conclusion...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> All these things seem like desperate moves from a failing empire. I don't believe for a second the U.S. cares about human rights here.

That doesn't mean I think the CCP is 'good', but 2 things can be true at the same time.

EDIT: typo

<comment><USER54> For things like this there isn't a "the U.S." there's groups of people, interest groups, political economy, political will, etc. If China were rapidly liberalizing and didn't have stains on their reputation like the HK protest lockdowns, minority subjugation, and horrible prison conditions it would be a lot harder to push any of these changes through. As it stands, democrats and republicans are both turning hawkish on China and the business interests that used to dominate have started to turn sour too.

<comment><USER55> But is it really? Were the people complaining about the war in Yemen or the atrocities of Saudi Arabia or the horrors of the Iraq War able to meaningfully change anything?

Or is it the case that the only time that human rights actually enact change is when there is an underlying material interest, making them little more than a veneer?

<comment><USER56> Well yeah, of course. Pretty much every US city is buried in homeless populations because human decency is off the table if there isn't a profit motive behind it.

You can look at the glass is half full view of this, though - thanks to selfish interests an evil regime is being cut off from market access to spy on people around the world. Its of mutual benefit to the capitalists that saw this happen and the people whom China would have invaded the privacy of.

Of course that begs the question what Oppo, Xiaomi, etc are still doing in US markets... just because they are using international SoCs doesn't mean their assembly in China is trustworthy. But if you start asking _those_ questions you start wondering about all the phones _assembled_ in China by external companies like Apple or all the chips added to Samsung phones sourced from China, etc.

<comment><USER55> The question for me is twofold.

First, will isolating China from the US and it's client states actually do anything to make the CCP act in a way that will respect human rights more? I think it is pretty clear that won't be the case.

Second of all, is the entity that stands to benefit actually going to be better for human rights? In this case it pretty much is a zero-sum game. This is a bit more debatable, but I don't think that if the US won this Cold War against China the situation for human rights in the world will become any better.

Because of that, I can't get behind it, at all.

<comment><USER57> > I don't think that if the US won this Cold War against China the situation > for human rights in the world will become any better.

That's true, but you need to contrast it with the other outcome - if China wins, human rights everywhere are very likely to become much _worse_.

That itself is a really good reason to support the US / West.

<comment><USER58> We are already in pretty bad shape. I particularly don't think this new "Cold War" will have any winer, ever, other than the ones making money from it. Good luck supporting these crimes.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER59> It is hard to feel sorry for them with all the blatant human rights abuse, bullying neighbors and arm twisting weaker countries. As expected, this thread is full of people responding with whataboutism!

</comment><comment><USER60> China will nationalize TSMC

<comment><USER44> Assuming when you say China you mean the UN recognized "China", then they do not have any control over TSMC.

<comment><USER61> This is a threat to Taiwan that China will just invade it and take whatever, including nationalizing TSMC.

<comment><USER39> It's an threat in some people's imagination.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


General intelligence factor, a Statistical Myth - <AUTHOR> http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/weblog/523.html

<comment><AUTHOR> I might have committed a protocol violation in submitting this; I got this link from <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1300347></comment>


US investigators corroborate some aspects of the Russia dossier - <AUTHOR> http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/10/politics/russia-dossier-update/index.html <comment><USER2> It's interesting that the whole article is based on "someone said something" w/o a single named source. Basically, this is "unconfirmed rumors" at best or "fake news" at worst.

P.S. No, I didn't vote for Trump. P.P.S. No, I didn't vote for Putin either.

<comment><USER3> For a story like this, the risk is so high that anyone speaking on the record could really be in mortal danger. If Putin is truly behind this, well, we've already seen how he handles detractors in his own country.

This is why you need to trust your news sources. Maybe you don't trust CNN, and think they're "fake news", but if that's the case then you've already lost any hope of objectivity. There are many news stories that are provably false, and CNN is not one of the major news outlets that continuously reports those kinds of things.

<comment><USER2> I don't _implicitly_ trust the news since the time I was a kid: I grew up in USSR and there was a saying that the only truth in the Soviet newspapers is the typos.

Anyway, there are many good articles on the art of reading news in the time of news wars. The better ones I like:

[https://news.vice.com/article/how-to-cut-through-the- bullshi...](https://news.vice.com/article/how-to-cut-through-the-bullshit-and- read-the-news-like-a-defense-analyst)

[http://www.criticalthinking.org/pages/the-art-of-close- readi...](http://www.criticalthinking.org/pages/the-art-of-close-reading-part- one/509) (and then other parts)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> If the events in the dossier turns out to be true, will the intelligence agencies protect their president or do they protect the country. Will they go public? What is their duty at that point? How much influence does an external country exert over your presidency? That will be an interesting call.

</comment><comment><USER5> They claim to corroborate some aspects. Too bad it's nothing related to the salacious bits about Trump or anything that can be easily independently verified by anyone in the U.S.

</comment><comment><USER6> I am sure all the details will eventually trickle out... Gee Wiz, what a mess :)</comment>


Confessions of a Boston-area restaurant owner - <AUTHOR> https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2019/01/11/confessions-boston-area-restaurant-owner/FaKHVbPWeXPUpE4Czl6fLM/story.html <comment><USER2> In Marion most restaurant goers are over the age of 55. I am wondering what restaurant owners are going to do in 20 years with the demographic change. But is this normal to see this senior exclusive clientel?</comment>


Client IP address disclosure in smtp.gmail.com - <AUTHOR> https://www.leeholmes.com/blog/2020/04/02/client-ip-address-disclosure-in-smtp-gmail-com/ <comment><USER2> This is "Working as Intended" (and Google told him exactly that).

Gmail and other providers have to split the balance between privacy and security. If you use the web interface and they authenticate your device directly, Google hides your IP and takes responsibility as the "source" of the email. If you're using SMTP it is possible you could be relaying mail for others (even possibly as an open relay) and they will disclose the IP of your client or mail server.

</comment><comment><USER3> _Disclosure Timeline

March 9, 2020 – Reported to Google security

March 10-19, 2020 – Assisted with steps to reproduce

March 20, 2020 – Resolved by Google as "Won't Fix (Intended Behavior)"

March 20-31, 2020 – Worked to confirm that there were no future plans to fix

April 2, 2020 – Got confirmation that the team was aware of the issue and has no plans to fix_

Sorry but this is just embarrassing. He wasted so much of his time and time of others while doing 15 sec of googling[1] would solve this.

[0] [https://www.quora.com/Does-sending-email-from-Gmail- expose-y...](https://www.quora.com/Does-sending-email-from-Gmail-expose-your- IP-address-to-the-sender)

</comment><comment><USER4> I've just reproduced the described behavior via a test message from Gmail.

On the other hand, I've _also_ just reproduced it via test messages from every other one of my email accounts, across multiple providers as well as the various instances I run for my own use. The only one that _didn 't_ repro was Office 365.

<comment><USER5> With O365, your IP should generally be in the X-Originating-IP header.

<comment><USER4> Oh, look at that, so it is.

<comment><USER6> We use a mail flow rule to remove the header when it goes through o365 outgoing.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Isn't that how SMTP has worked for decades?

<comment><USER8> Yes, and it is extremely handy for debugging email issues and for identifying spammers.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> In other news iOS tells every web site you visit Your IP address! And no matter where you drive people have access to a unique vehicle ID assigned to your vehicle by the state!

</comment><comment><USER5> This is how SMTP is supposed to work. As a side note, messages sent with Outlook or webmail using O365 (or Exchange) don't go from your client to the O365 server over SMTP, but your IP address is still shown in the X-Originating-IP header.

</comment><comment><USER10> I'm half surprised I didn't get a "your computer has an IP!" popup visiting this page.

</comment><comment><USER11> This is what is supposed to happen. I guess I agree though that we could get rid of it as normal users dont know this is how email normally works. It's useful though...

</comment><comment><USER12> Anyone know how privacy-focused providers fare with this?

<comment><USER13> Unsurprisingly, Protonmail strips the IP address.

<comment><USER2> Protonmail does not support SMTP at all, so I'm not sure what you think they would be stripping.

Both Protonmail and Gmail hide the IP if you're using the web interface.

<comment><USER14> ProtonMail does support SMTP via a bridge:

[https://protonmail.com/bridge/](https://protonmail.com/bridge/)

tho not clear if dannyw tested with ProtonMail IMAP/SMTP Bridge or with ProtonMail web.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> If host A is using gmail to spam me, then I can block host A, but if gmail would remove this I can only block all of gmail (or the gmail account, but a new account will be created 2 seconds later, whereas creating new IPs is much harder).

I'm all for privacy and prevention of leaking data such as IP addresses, but there are other concerns, as well, which I often see "privacy advocates" forget about. Maybe there is a better way to solve this problem than including the IP address – I would be all for it – but this post doesn't mention any of this.

Unfortunately, 100% privacy is often open to abuse from malicious actors, and a balance needs to be struck.

BTW: you can make a similar argument about the stamps the post office puts on your letters, which often includes the location and may be "private information".

<comment><USER16> How is this argument relevant when you can still spam anonymously by using the web version?

<comment><USER15> Sending spam on the gmail web UI is considerably harder than a few lines of shell script needed to spam over SMTP. And arguably, the web UI should really add the same Received headers.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Can someone break down what this means for me? I'm assuming an example of say Thunderbird as the MUA connects to gmail's servers with SMTP over TLS or using STARTTLS and happens to include this header of the client's public OR (not xor) private IP address as per specification(s).

What's unclear for me it whether this is then stripped by gmail's MSA/MTA before being routed towards the destination. From how I'm reading the article in the OP, it seems to imply that the recipient of the message would know the sender's IP address. If this is the case then I'd say that's of some concern, but it seems people are saying this is NOT the case. Can someone please expand on the exact test setup?

<comment><USER18> Any random MTA including gmail's that receives your message over SMTP prepends Received header to your message that contains where the message was received from and that somewhat obviously includes the IP address where the message came from. It works as intended and if you at all care about privacy implications of that (whatever that might be) you simply should not use email/SMTP.

<comment><USER17> I'm not looking for an argument, I've never noticed this behavior before. Why is this done? People are saying this is some kind of way to combat spamming/spoofing/malicious email but I don't see how that's the case. If the source address of the packets matches a blacklist then you can correlate against that. While not impossible to forge an IP address, it's certainly more trivial to edit the SMTP header (I'm not saying that would avoid detection, mind you).

What benefit do we gain from including the origin's IP address throughout the entire header history?

<comment><USER19> This was done way before Google existed, way before they offered a GMail server or an SMTP interface to their servers. It is done to combat spam, if I get an email that was relayed through their servers I can see which IP connected to their servers to send it. Then every time the email is sent between servers the source IP is again added. It allows to track the real source of an email, remember that email inherently has no authentication, there's no way to really say the From address is authentic. But having a record of all the IP addresses used when transferring the email I can determine that pretty easily.

<comment><USER17> While yes, email has no implicit authentication and forging an email is trivial, pulling that attack off is super difficult due to modern SPF and DKIM mechanisms. I'm not super familiar with DKIM but I'll use SPF in my example below.

Let's say I'm running an email server for myself for example.com and I receive an email from 192.0.2.1 and it claims to be from email@example.com. Okay, great. First I consult with my database of blacklists to make sure that 192.0.2.1 isn't blacklisted. If it is, into the trash it goes.

The blacklist reports the address is clear, I move to the next step - SPF. I do a DNS lookup for the txt records under gmail.com and find the one for SPF. But lo and behold, the SPF record does _not_ include 192.0.2.1 as a valid address to submit mail on behalf of gmail.com - this email is likely forged. I drop the mail and submit a report to my favorite blacklist provider(s).

Now, could the DNS have been forged? Yes. With modern DNSSEC, is that likely? I don't think so. Could the packet's source address been forged? Yes, that's pretty easy if you're the ISP or state-sponsored. But if the source address has been forged, there's no way the IP address in the SMTP headers are going to do you any good - the attack is too sophisticated at that point.

If a receiver of mail fails to properly validate the source of the email, that onus is on them as far as I'm concerned, especially so if DNSSEC, SPF, DKIM, etc have all been implemented. While open relays aren't extinct, they sure are easy to detect and most best practices I've read on email say to reject them when detected.

I still don't see how having this trail of user IP addresses is useful. There's nothing implicitly in the message that can be trusted - that's what PKI is for.

<comment><USER20> I don't know what you mean by "modern DNSSEC", but virtually none of the most important names on the Internet are (or likely ever will be) signed, so whatever your obstacles to forging an email might be, DNSSEC won't be among them.

<comment><USER17> >Virtually none of the important names are signed.

Source?

>...Or likely ever will be

Source?

<comment><USER21> [https://dnssec-name-and-shame.com/](https://dnssec-name-and-shame.com/)

This shows the top 25 websites and that none of them have DNSSEC.

As for whether people will in the future, it's impossible to say for sure. But chrome doesn't support dnssec, which shows how seriously google takes it.

<comment><USER17> Thanks for the link, that's quite interesting. While web browsers can implement their own DNS resolver, that's completely irrelevant when we're talking about an MTA. The server(s) the MTA(s) are running on have their own underlying resolvers which can be DNSSEC-compatible, or better yet, if you're using a public resolver like quad9, they validate the DNSSEC for you.

Edit: Not that I'm saying you should _trust_ quad9 full-stop, but it is a nice feature. Anyone could run their own private resolver but most choose not to because of the very same privacy concerns we're talking about in these headers, namely - making your traffic easier to profile.

<comment><USER20> It doesn't matter that your MTA could, in theory, do fully recursive signature-validating resolutions, because none of the domains you'll be looking at are signed.

<comment><USER17> Yes, I'm satisfied with the evidence presented that the "major" vendors aren't signing their zones, but I do think we're far off-topic at this point as to whether or not the client IP address has value in the message headers.

Thanks for the discussion!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> > Users looking to send email in a manner that keeps this information private > from message recipients should use either Gmail's web interface or an > alternative mail provider.

Or, use a VPN rather than hamstring the ability to validate email or fight spam.

</comment><comment><USER23> This is how SMTP works.

</comment><comment><USER24> Tip: run your own mail server and configure it to hide your source IP

</comment><comment><USER25> April Fool's was yesterday...</comment>


What Anonymous Cops Are Saying Online About the Eric Garner Grand Jury - <AUTHOR> http://www.vice.com/read/what-anonymous-cops-are-saying-about-the-eric-garner-grand-jury-1205

<comment><USER2> Police have been using choke holds without repercussions for many years. And being incredibly arrogant about it. Here's an astonishing story from Portland Oregon, albeit 29 years old[1]:

       On the day the dead man, Lloyd D. Stevenson,
       a father of five and a Marine Corps veteran,
       was buried in Willamette National Cemetery,
       two Portland police officers were suspended
       for selling T-shirts with the message:
       ''Don't Choke 'Em. Smoke 'Em.'' In police slang,
       ''smoke'' means shoot to death.

[1] [http://www.nytimes.com/1985/05/05/us/blacks-protest-choke- ho...](http://www.nytimes.com/1985/05/05/us/blacks-protest-choke-hold-death- in-oregon.html)</comment>


My Portfolio - <AUTHOR> https://www.michaelfogleman.com/ <comment><USER2> Very Impressive. Please answer the following questions if possible so mere mortals can learn from.

How much time do you spent on creating vs learning(meaning studying algorithms or anything that will be useful to creating(coding)).

Do you learn regularly.

Do you learn on the days while you create too.

Do you watch TV? If yes what shows do you watch ?

Do you watch youtube to which channels do you subscribe ? Never mind. I found this for those who are interested [https://www.youtube.com/user/FogleBird/channels](https://www.youtube.com/user/FogleBird/channels)

Do you do exercise ?

Coffee or Tea ?

Does you boss complain about your job as you are very active with side projects ? (or) may be do you think he feels sad about spending all the creative energy on outside work.

What advice do you give for a 2 year experienced guy who wants to be as productive as you ?

How many hours do you sleep perday? Do you sleep at the same time?

Do you listen to music while coding ?

<comment><AUTHOR> I learn as I go, as needed to get done whatever I'm trying to accomplish. Some projects require a significant amount of "learning" while others may require almost none.

No TV really. I do read books sometimes. Most recently: The Vital Question, Sapiens, Buzz Aldrin and Elon Musk's bios.

Not much exercise these days. Sometimes I'll get into running a couple times a week, but not lately.

Tea. Once or twice a day. Coffee rarely (~once a month).

No complaints at work, I get excellent reviews.

I go to sleep around 11pm and wake up around 8:30 - 9am. Sleep longer on the weekends.

Music while coding: sometimes. If I'm in "the zone", the music will be playing but I'm not conscious of it.

All in all, pretty uninteresting, right? :)

<comment><USER2> > All in all, pretty uninteresting, right? :)

Not at all. Ten hours of sleep a day for this amount of productivity is pretty interesting. Thanks very much for answering.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Hello HN. I revamped my website to better highlight my side projects and wanted to share it with you. I was going to make this a "Show HN" but the rules say it must be something you can "try out." Not sure you can "try out" a portfolio, although you can certainly try out the projects on it.

Hopefully you will find something interesting or inspirational! Let me know what you think.

<comment><USER3> I think a website falls into the category of things that you can use.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> A surprise to see my name on Hacker News - and realize it's my internet doppelganger! (Hi there!) Trade you!: [http://mwfogleman.com/portfolio.html](http://mwfogleman.com/portfolio.html)

<comment><AUTHOR> Hello! I've stumbled on your webpages and such for years now.

<comment><USER4> Ha! And me as well. You're the main reason my handle these days tends to be mwfogleman or variations thereof. :)

The funny thing to me isn't that there's another person with my name on the internet, who has a presence on the internet. The funny thing is that our interests overlap (to some extent) from what I can tell. I've done less programming but it's been a consistent interest of mine for some time. I tend to program in Clojure but I like Python and Go very much. :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Really impressive work. I'm a resume writer, career coach, and tech recruiter with nearly 20 years working for startups, and this is the kind of thing that definitely will get you in the door at most employers. As an FYI, I know your resume page probably isn't your "real" resume, but you can definitely move your degree down to the bottom now that you have so much experience.

</comment><comment><USER6> I love that the social media icons in your footer almost spell out your family name. Nice touch.

Excellent projects. I'm blown away with how much you've completed. How do you maximize your time in order to accomplish so much?

<comment><AUTHOR> I work serially - one thing at a time, with intense focus. If I'm doing a woodworking project, I'm not programming. All of my free time goes to the current project, basically. In between projects I feel bored and unproductive and long for the next idea to grab my attention.

<comment><USER7> > _If I 'm doing a woodworking project_

Do you have a showcase of those as well?

<comment><AUTHOR> Not really, but here's my desk that I made: [http://imgur.com/a/tnFNG](http://imgur.com/a/tnFNG)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> How do you find time for family AND pet projects? Do you sleep?

<comment><AUTHOR> My wife thinks I sleep too much.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Very nicely done. Honestly I wish most pages loaded this fast and had this much content in it. I would like to try doing something similar.

Obligatory question: what is your development stack for this and how is it hosted?

<comment><AUTHOR> I used Flask and Frozen-Flask for this. So I can run it locally and use some admin forms to add/edit projects and then freeze it into a bunch of static files. Then deployment is straightforward. Pretty happy with how it turned out, I'm a long-time Flask user but never used Frozen-Flask before.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> There's a lot of cool stuff on here.

This project in particular is way neat. [https://github.com/fogleman/primitive](https://github.com/fogleman/primitive)

I think that project was posted to HN some time ago?

Ah well, certainly worth another mention. It turned out really nicely! The effect is almost, (is impressionist the right term?) dk, not an art guy, but it is super cool!

<comment><USER10> I think someone mentioned this the first time, but framed prints of that effect on photos seems like it would be a hot thing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> You are genuinely a creator. Most of us (by fate or lack of talent) are just dabblers, optimizers or copycats.

<comment><AUTHOR> That's funny, because I often feel like most of my creations are just copying some other idea.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> As someone trying to build a portfolio such as yours, could you recommend me something fun to build? :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Well, what are you interested in?

<comment><USER12> Everything! :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Given your prolific nature of creation, have you done a "startup" or an "entrepreneurial" venture that can scale and even generate profit ? Just curious why or why not ? I would assume you could start a great side company based on your portfolio.

<comment><AUTHOR> I've obviously thought about that a lot, but I'm not very business-minded. I have a few Mac apps on the App Store that generate some revenue. Perhaps most potential money-generators don't strike me as intellectually interesting?

<comment><USER14> You and I are kin — that is, of a kind. I too do wood working projects, random coding projects that seem interesting. Apps on the AppStore that barely pay for a run to Starbucks. I exercise more than you do, watch as much TV, read perhaps a little less.

A little surprised (or not) about the people in the thread wondering where you find the time to be so productive (I get that too). Probably the simplest answer I have found is, "I don't watch TV." Usually staring at their feet follows.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Beautiful projects and well organized portfolio! Congrats on the revamped website.

</comment><comment><USER15> Hey! Thanks for sharing your site. Did you happen to write about what process you followed when going through the revamp? What tools and design choices did you make, etc, etc?

<comment><AUTHOR> I haven't, but briefly: I wanted to increase exposure to my projects, in a way that didn't require clicking each project to see what it is. I wish GitHub was better at this, somehow. I actually researched other people's personal websites and took notes on what works and what doesn't. I also wanted it to be low maintenance so I'll keep up with it in the future. Those were my driving ideas. I briefly looked at Hugo but decided to use Flask since I'm very comfortable with it. I looked into Bootstrap alternatives like Spectre and Bulma but again stuck with Bootstrap since I'm very familiar with it. But I tried to customize it enough that it didn't look too Bootstrappy.

<comment><USER15> Thank you!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Nice site it's very clean, also the graphics work awesome

</comment><comment><USER11> Noob question: Why Go? Python performance was not enough?

<comment><AUTHOR> Go is way faster than Python. Go's design meshes well with my ideals, so for me it's a joy to use.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Wow! Blown away by your side projects. Great work.

</comment><comment><USER18> Impressive portfolio!

</comment><comment><USER19> duuuuuuude... this is AWESOME!</comment>


Show HN: Glimmer, a Simple Private Ad-free Photo Sharing Service - <AUTHOR> https://glimmer.cc <comment><USER2> I like it. It is simple. I don't like photo management in dropbox, apple photos.

I never share family photos with entire facebook audience, and I never use above tools to share with family. Probably only use Whatsapp to share 1 photo at a time.

Question is, what else can I do with this other than upload + share albums? What could be another value add?

</comment><comment><USER3> Thats quit cheap, $1/m. How much GB can you store?

<comment><AUTHOR> I haven't yet figured out exactly how much to offer, but something like 10GB is what I'm thinking.

</comment></comment><comment><USER2> You need an upload progress bar.</comment>


The Board Game of the Alpha Nerds - <AUTHOR> http://grantland.com/features/diplomacy-the-board-game-of-the-alpha-nerds/

<comment><USER2> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7913183](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7913183)</comment>


Chris Sievey - Camouflage - Sinclair ZX81 pop video (1983) - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u9ZyV-BHFA

<comment><USER2> Chris Sievey also wrote a computer game: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Biz_%28video_game%29](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Biz_%28video_game%29)

(as well as being Frank Sidebottom which it says in the Youtube link.)</comment>


Simplify Google Maps API with Google Maps jQuery Plugin - <AUTHOR> http://www.webappers.com/2010/01/06/simplify-google-maps-api-with-google-maps-jquery-plugin/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Webappers+%28WebAppers%29

<comment><USER2>
      * ...you can use the original Google Maps JavaScript API to do what you need.
      * Not all portions of the original API were carried over into this plugin,
      * Less than 10KB of JavaScript.

So 10KB extra data on the page, I can't really see why this is better than just using the Google Maps Javascript API. The Google API doesn't seem that complex :/

</comment><comment><USER3> The submitted URL doesn't give much information.

Originial URL: <http://www.mayzes.org/googlemaps.jquery.html>

Since I have some experience with Google Maps API, I have to say that the code examples found on the website does seem a little easier than the original Google API.

For example, if you want to draw a polyline on a Google Map:

jQuery Plugin:

        $(document).ready(function() {
            $('selector').googleMaps({
                polyline: {
                    startLatitude:     37.4419,
                    endLatitude:    37.4519,
                    endLongitude:    -122.1519,
                    color:             '#ff0000',
                    pixels:         2
                }
            });
        });

Google Maps API:

            var polyline = new GPolyline([
      		  new GLatLng(37.4419, -122.1419),
      		  new GLatLng(37.4519, -122.1519)
    		], "#ff0000", 10);
    		map.addOverlay(polyline);

<comment><USER2> Is it just me that prefers the second code snippet by a mile?

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> This plugin is a good "wrapper" around the Google Maps API but as @axod points out it doesn't offer much convience over the GMap API.

I've created a plugin jMapping which allows a developer to map a set of point by extracting metadata from a list of HTML elements that describe the locations. It also allows you to customize those markers and the interaction between the map and the HTML elements:

Usage: <http://vigetlabs.github.com/jmapping/usage.html> Examples: <http://vigetlabs.github.com/jmapping/examples/></comment>


Covert Listening Devices Used by Stasi - brian-armstrong https://www.cryptomuseum.com/intel/stasi/index.htm <comment><AUTHOR> Ah the other Tesla: [https://www.cryptomuseum.com/manuf/tesla/index.htm](https://www.cryptomuseum.com/manuf/tesla/index.htm)</comment>


500 dead horseshoe crabs have washed up in Japan - <AUTHOR> http://www.sciencealert.com/500-horseshoe-crabs-have-mysteriously-washed-up-dead-in-japan <comment><USER2> Aside from the apocalyptic theme from the website maintainer, this is quiet a comprehensive list of mass animal die offs that have been reported since 2011, when these reports begin skyrocketing.

[http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/animal-deaths-birds- fish-e...](http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/animal-deaths-birds-fish-end- times.html)

[http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/mass-animal- deaths-2015.ht...](http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/mass-animal- deaths-2015.html)

[http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/mass-animal- deaths-2014.ht...](http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/mass-animal- deaths-2014.html)

[http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/mass-animal- deaths-2013.ht...](http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/mass-animal- deaths-2013.html)

[http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/mass-animal- deaths-2012.ht...](http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/mass-animal- deaths-2012.html)

[http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/mass-animal- deaths-2011.ht...](http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/mass-animal- deaths-2011.html)

</comment><comment><USER3> Say goodbye to the blood harvest, an Irish startup are making a biosynthetic replacement! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Wg9nqdlZU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Wg9nqdlZU) [http://www.irishtimes.com/business/innovation-awards- sothic-...](http://www.irishtimes.com/business/innovation-awards-sothic- bioscience-could-save-horseshoe-crab-from-extinction-1.2739195) (disclaimer: I work for Sothic)

<comment><USER4> What is the blood harvest and what does Sothic replace? I'm confused.

<comment><USER5> _Few people know it but the horseshoe crab is the unsung hero when it comes to medical devices and pharmaceutical products. The blood of the crab has unique properties that make it ideal for giving an absolute guarantee that an injectable product or implantable medical device absolutely sterile._

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> "Mysteriously".

My first thought (and indeed the end half of the article) points potential blame at the 'harvesting' of blood. Horseshoe crabs are captured, have some blood drained, and then are released. Maybe some group is getting a little to zealous with the harvest.

<comment><USER7> >Those harvesting this 'blue blood' say they're not killing the crabs to obtain it, but reports have shown that even if crabs that are returned to the ocean afterwards, they tend to die earlier than those that had been left alone.

Looks like it might not be as harmless as they thought.

<comment><USER8> Considering that they are thrown back into the ocean without parts of their immune system, I find it a miracle that they survive at all.

The "harvest" looks pretty gruesome to me: [http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/02/the- bl...](http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/02/the-blood- harvest/284078/)

<comment><USER9> "The industry says that not that many of the animals die. Between 10 and 30 percent of the bled animals, according to varying estimates, actually die"

Doesn't really fit my view of not that many. We seem determined to ruin everything we go near.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> >But now after surviving the last five mass extinctions on Earth, their numbers are suddenly starting to dwindle.

We are fucking things up so badly. Are we actually on track to fix the damage from climate change? Are we doing enough? Are people willing to live with what is really needed to stop climate change? This thing survived 5 mass extinctions, are humans what was really needed to kill it off?

<comment><AUTHOR> "Are we doing enough?"

This question is spot on. We have this planet, our habitat, in our hands. Overexploition of natural recources can bring our ecosystem in dire straits, and us with it. We can loose so much. About time to use technology to change this. And about time to change out behaviour en masse.

<comment><USER10> Meh, gotta rewrite our frontend in Angular 2 to impress YC and cash out on our IoT razor blade disposal community.

<comment><AUTHOR> I take that as bleeding edge sarcasm :^)

There are many startup endeavours that aim to use tech for the better of our ecosystem e.g. all the startups affiliated with the New Harvest Community ([http://new-harvest.org](http://new-harvest.org)).

<comment><USER11> >> blade disposal

>> bleeding edge

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> And of course gloabal warming is to blame.</comment>


Show HN: Open Source Mobile Privacy Policy - <AUTHOR> https://www.docracy.com/mobileprivacy/ <comment><USER2> I bought mine from lawyers. You guys are all welcome to it, provided you change the various names first.

Thing is, you really should get a lawyer to check yours. These things aren't cut and paste; your situation won't be the same as someone else's, and the details can matter, a lot.

So yes, use this as a starting point. But getting things like these checked by a lawyer is less than a hundred bucks.

Once you're underway, it's basic safety, like insurance is, like encrypting your laptop's hard drive is.

Get yourself protected, once a hundred bucks isn't a big deal.

I'm putting mine on a nopaste, with all the names removed, because I don't want to turn my comment into an advertisement.

<http://pastebin.com/MbZUb1Mi>

I hope this helps, but seriously, I'm just some jerk on HN. Once you can afford it, get the real thing.

</comment><comment><USER3> I might be just an idiot but it took me a good thirty seconds before I realised I had to scroll, I was clicking the phone trying to see what the CTA was

<comment><USER4> The arrow was very misleading.

<comment><USER5> I think you nailed it. If the arrow was simply pointing down, it could help.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Nice idea.

For your ads button, having an id="ads" blocks it from people using Adblock.

<comment><USER7> Yeah, a very primitive 'feature' of adblocks. Discovered it for the first time a long time ago when I named some kind of 'addons' div 'ad' and it disappeared.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Automattic privacy policy and terms of service are allowed to use under creative commons license: <http://automattic.com/privacy/>

<comment><USER9> I love the Automattic documents, but they are focused on traditional websites. The Docracy privacy policies are specifically targeted towards mobile applications. If a smartphone developer was to customize the Automattic documents, they would need do significant modifications in order to cover mobile-specific use cases.

It would be nice if the Docracy policies clearly stated what license that they are covered on.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Great, I've found this site a year ago but I didn't bookmark it and forgot all about it. I kept looking for it but searching "Open source contracts" or anything similar does not help as the site is fairly hidden in Google.

Thanks for reminding me about it. The site is invaluable for me as a freelancer and developer. [http://www.docracy.com/topic/1e6bi5l90z/open- source-legal-do...](http://www.docracy.com/topic/1e6bi5l90z/open-source-legal- documents-for-developers)

</comment><comment><USER11> Wow, thank you for this. It seems to cover everything I could think of (plus a whole lot more) so is a ToS still necessary if you use this? What's the difference?

</comment><comment><USER12> I really like this. I've found it surprisingly hard to find freely available legal types of documents along the lines of privacy policies, terms and conditions and freelance contracts. I don't want to have to hire a lawyer for a small project when I know it could be covered by a boilerplate document. This will be a great resource for small app developers.

<comment><USER13> While technically copyright infringement, boilerplate legal text is routinely copied, even by lawyers.

This court case (AFLAC v. Assurant, et al.) drew a bit of a line in the sand about what's OK and what isn't:

[http://danashultz.com/blog/2009/11/20/can-i-create-my- standa...](http://danashultz.com/blog/2009/11/20/can-i-create-my-standard- form-contract-by-starting-with-someone-elses/)

"The moral: There is not likely to be a problem if you copy routine legal or business terms, but if you copy unique provisions that are important to another company's business, you might find yourself on the short end of a copyright infringement lawsuit."

When putting together our T&C, etc, our lawyer suggested we browse around and copy clauses we liked from the big guys and put it together into some semblance of what we want, then he would review it. Saves lots of legal expense compared with getting him to do all the work, and cost us almost no extra time as we would have needed to dictate to him what we wanted anyway.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Thanks. We needed this for long time.</comment>


Finger-Aware Shortcuts: Trigger commands with the same key and different fingers - <AUTHOR> http://www.jingjiezheng.com/projects/finger-aware-shortcuts/ <comment><AUTHOR> Here's the video demo: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWp0JBrl8rQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWp0JBrl8rQ)</comment>