PEP 0484 – Type Hints is accepted - <AUTHOR> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0484/ <comment><USER2> One of the reasons why I use Python 3.x exclusively is for the new function annotations, which allow use of this: [https://github.com/prechelt/typecheck- decorator](https://github.com/prechelt/typecheck-decorator)

This allows me to write Python in a design-by-contract style with full, rich runtime type checks. My bug count has gone down dramatically, and when I do find a bug it's virtually always via a typecheck exception.

<comment><USER3> Yeah, isn't that amazing? I really think this "type" idea is a good one. I wonder if other languages have thought about following Python's lead and adding a type system.

<comment><USER4> Would you like to reconsider your tone?

<comment><USER3> No, but let me clarify. Bolting on a form of type checking to a weakly typed language seems orthogonal to the nature of a language like Python. If you find yourself saying "I wish I had a type system in this code base, its getting pretty big and a compiler that does type checking at compile time sure would make my life easier" maybe you should think about using a more appropriate tool.

I use Python a lot and it has its uses, but adding this type hint stuff just seems like an enabler for causing myself pain and denial when I _should_ be using a more strongly typed language.

<comment><USER5> Though I agree with your sentiment, I must mention that there is nothing "weak" about Python's type system.

You likely meant "dynamic", not "weak". See here:

wiki.python.org/moin/Why%20is%20Python%20a%20dynamic%20language%20and%20also%20a%20strongly%20typed%20language

<comment><USER6> Python's type system is weak whether they self-identify that way or not. Types are implicitly converted in a variety of cases, notably True-ness. Meanwhile, runtime type identity is kind of meaningless; classes and individual objects can have their behavior meaningfully changed at runtime. The most you can say about any variable in Python is that it is a descendant of 'object' or else some primitive type.

<comment><USER7> If Python's `if` is weakly typed, then Rust's `for` and `.` are weakly typed. Few would say that, though.

<comment><USER8> One place where Python is pretty weakly typed is going the other way, where it accepts things like: true + true * 2 - false / true, even outside of if statements.

I've definitely been bitten by this before, accidentally passing in a book parameter instead of an int, and having some math work initially and then blow up months later.

Knuth argues against this kind of implicit bool to integer conversion in Concrete Mathematics.

<comment><USER9> Nitpick: this isn't an implicit conversion.

There's a lot of history of languages without a real boolean type using integer 0 and 1 as the sentinel values indicating false-ness and true-ness.

And Python, in a nod to that, implements bool as a subclass of int, of which only two instances can ever exist (with False having a value of 0 and True having a value of 1).

So this isn't weak typing -- isinstance(True, int) is True in Python, and operations like the ones you're mentioning work because of that, for the same reason any other subclass of int would work.

<comment><USER8> Interesting, so technically isn't weak typing, but in practice to me it is a distinction without a difference. You could make int a subtype of string, and allow things like "1" \+ 1 == "11" and end up with many of the same problems of weakly typed languages.

<comment><USER7> Well, that would violate the Liskov Substitution Principle.

But I think there's a fundamental divide about what weak typing actually is. For example, it's entirely possible in Rust to have implemented Add for i32 and String. Even this isn't weak typing in its traditional form.

AFAIK, in this sense weak typing refers to whenever the compiler will implicitly cast one type to another in order to satisfy a type constraint. C's number types do this. PHP does this on everything. Javascript has, eg., [] + [] == "". Python does not do this - all type casts are explicit in the implementation of the operator or function (which is implemented on the type, not globally).

It's reasonable to argue that the use of the phrase "weak typing" to mean "things I don't like about a type-system" is not only well established but maybe even more useful. It does, however, irritate Python programmers who don't want their language lumped in with PHP.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I mostly like Python for its clean syntax but the examples contained in this PEP turn unreadable really fast. I don't look forward to this and I don't really see the point of it. I can see how it can be useful _in theory_ but, in practice, I just see a symptom of language bloat.

The way I see it, if you find yourself in the situation where explicit type checking is important, there's probably something wrong with your process or team. Either your are not testing properly, or your team's mindset is more adjusted to another language.

The danger I see with this becoming widespread is Python becoming somewhat like C++ where it's very easy to come across code one can't easily read because it uses a different subset of features than you're used to. This sort of "language accents" so common in human languages is something that should be avoided in computer languages, IMHO.

<comment><USER11> One could argue that you'd need many fewer lines of test code if your compiler can prove a lot of stuff is correct at compile time. It's a personal preference thing but I prefer this situation and don't view it as having poor testing

<comment><USER12> This. Every test just explores one special case of the invariant I would prefer to enforce but cannot with today's tooling.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> See also acceptance letter [https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python- dev/2015-May/140104...](https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python- dev/2015-May/140104.html) and the discussion on Reddit [http://redd.it/36yuk8](http://redd.it/36yuk8)

</comment><comment><USER13> Nice. It really seems like static typing and functional programming are winning [1]. For the most part, I think that's very a good thing, and may help move the software industry forward.

[1] [http://www.ybrikman.com/writing/2015/02/06/are-static- typing...](http://www.ybrikman.com/writing/2015/02/06/are-static-typing-and- functional/)

</comment><comment><USER14> So now two popular dynamic languages have type hinting of a kind: Python (unenforced annotations) and PHP (declarations). Great!

<comment><USER15> > So now two popular dynamic languages have type hinting of a kind: Python > (unenforced annotations) and PHP (declarations). Great!

Don't forget Javascript, via Typescript (which predates both Python and PHP's typechecking): [http://www.typescriptlang.org/](http://www.typescriptlang.org/)

Typescript is a strict superset of Javascript that compiles very transparently to the equivalent Javascript, so I think it's close enough to what Python3 does to be included here.

The annotations are stripped out before runtime, but they are checked at compile-time for any errors that are possible to detect statically.

<comment><USER14> TypeScript is a JS superset, though. It's not part of JS itself.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Interesting to me that they write "Python will remain a dynamically typed language, and the authors have no desire to ever make type hints mandatory, even by convention."

Having no experience with using gradual typing, I wonder if there's any stable equilibrium here between "thoroughly dynamic" and "type declarations everywhere".

In any case, as someone who started with Python and started preferring static types later on, I really hope this gets used.

</comment><comment><USER17> This seems exciting. I'm not familiar with the availability of new Python features. When can I use this in my day to day Python?

<comment><USER18> Simple function annotations like

      def foo(x: int) -> str: ...

have been available since 3.0, and editors like PyCharm already use them for typechecking.

For new PEP 0484 features like generics, MyPy supports Python 3.2 and up, but PyCharm support seems to be work in progress: [https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/PY-15206](https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/PY-15206)

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> I like it, let the developer choose where typing is most appropriate. Also runtime type assertions really help with identifying bugs, especially NoneType issues.

</comment><comment><USER20> This is a tragedy, as it forces comments to contain syntactic value.

<comment><USER21> Not quite. The PEP is (to me) quite explicit that the typing is never mandatory. So a comment-hint will _never_ change the way the code actually runs, nor will lack of a comment or an unintentional comment cause a program to act strangely.

Already, anyone seriously using pylint or other "normal" python linting tools uses comments like that to give extra hints to the linter:

        def blah(): # pylint: ignoresomething

type of thing. Yes, it's a bit weird, and yes, it does teeter right on the edge of the comments as syntactic value precipice, but I think lands _just_ on the alright side.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> So python becomes nim now?

I wish they kept separate ways. Python for simple and powerful hobbyist programs and nim for the enterprise.

If we have two languages doing the same thing, we will abandon one group of enthusiasts. Then another language will come to fill the gap.

<comment><USER23> Pretty sure Python is very "enterprise"[1] worthy.

[1] - [https://www.paypal-engineering.com/2014/12/10/10-myths-of- en...](https://www.paypal-engineering.com/2014/12/10/10-myths-of-enterprise- python/)

<comment><USER24> I remain on the fence myself, but that article mostly argues that it is _useable_ and used in the enterprise, not that it's worthy of use at that project size and scale. I think that article, rather than being a strong technical piece, is a pretty good example of:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum)

Also, it doesn't take much google-fu to find a counterargument from someone apparently reputable:

[http://www.quora.com/Why-does-Google-prefer-the-Java- stack-f...](http://www.quora.com/Why-does-Google-prefer-the-Java-stack-for- its-products-instead-of-Python/answer/Robert-Love-1)</comment></comment></comment>


Zabbix, Time Series Data and TimescaleDB - <AUTHOR> https://blog.zabbix.com/zabbix-time-series-data-and-timescaledb/6642/ <comment><USER2> Every time TimescaleDB is brought up, I feel the need to point people to their shadily worded proprietary licence[0], and pg_partman[1].

Do the same benchmarks against a pg_partman managed partitioned db and you'll get the exact same performance. We do, at least - 150k or so metrics per second, 10 columns per metric.

Not trying to crap on the TimescaleDB guys, I've found a lot of their writeups extremely useful and can totally see how their commercially supported product fits. However, I like to see pg_partman at least mentioned somewhere in the article/comments. It's awesome and does the same job.

[0][https://github.com/timescale/timescaledb/blob/master/LICENSE](https://github.com/timescale/timescaledb/blob/master/LICENSE)

[1][https://github.com/pgpartman/pg_partman](https://github.com/pgpartman/pg_partman)

<comment><USER3> (Timescale cofounder here)

Hey, just wanted to clarify: the vast majority of TimescaleDB code is Apache2, and you can easily compile (and we ourselves build & distribute) Apache2-only binaries.

When we announced a new license in December, we didn't _relicense_ any code, we just said that some _future_ features will be available under a Community or Enterprise License. The code under this "Timescale License" is clearly marked and in a separate subdirectory, and for virtually all users (except the public cloud DBaaS providers), the community features are free.

This is the actual top-level LICENSE file in the repo: [https://github.com/timescale/timescaledb/blob/master/LICENSE](https://github.com/timescale/timescaledb/blob/master/LICENSE)

And here's a blog post discussing in more depth: [https://blog.timescale.com/how-we-are-building-an-open- sourc...](https://blog.timescale.com/how-we-are-building-an-open-source- business-a7701516a480/)

<comment><USER4> Timescale user here. I actually think your "community" TSL license and Enterprise licenses are a good compromise.

Perhaps what's not immediately obvious is that the TSL license is there to protect against cloud providers offering hosted TimescaleDB without contributing back - systems that add value (e.g. are backed by TimescaleDB for DML) can use TSL-licensed code without any issue.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> TimescaleDB confuses me. Postgres is an OLTP database and their disk storage format is uncompressed and not particularly effective.

By clever sharding, you can work around the performance issues somewhat but it'll never be as efficient as an OLAP column store like ClickHouse or MemSQL:

\- Timestamps and metric values compress very nicely using delta-of-delta encoding.

\- Compression dramatically improves scan performance.

\- Aligning data by columns means much faster aggregation. A typical time series query does min/max/avg aggregations by timestamp. You can load data straight from disk into memory, use SSE/AVX instructions and only the small subset of data you aggregate on will have to be read from disk.

So what's the use case for TimescaleDB? Complex queries that OLAP databases can't handle? Small amounts of metrics where storage cost is irrelevant, but PostgreSQL compatibility matters?

Storing time series data in TimescaleDB takes at least 10x (if not more) space compared to, say, ClickHouse or the Prometheus TSDB.

<comment><USER6> (TimescaleDB co-founder)

TimescaleDB is more performant that you may think. We've benchmarked this extensively: eg outperforming vs InfluxDB [1] [2], vs Cassandra [3], vs Mongo [4].

We've also open-sourced the benchmarking suite so others can run these themselves and verify our results. [5]

We also beat MemSQL regularly for enterprise engagements (unfortunately can't share those results publicly).

I think the scalability of ClickHouse is quite compelling, and if you need more than 1-2M inserts a second and 100TBs of storage, then that would be one reason where I'd recommend another database over our own. But horizontal scalability is something we have been working on for nearly a year, so we expect this to be a less of an issue in the near future (will have more to share later this month).

You are correct however that TimescaleDB requires more storage than some of these other options. If storage is the most important criteria for you (ie more important than usability or performance), then again I would recommend you to one of the other databases that are more optimized for compression. However, you can get 6-8x compression by running TimescaleDB on ZFS today, and we are also currently working on additional techniques for achieving higher compression rates.

[1] [https://blog.timescale.com/timescaledb-vs-influxdb-for- time-...](https://blog.timescale.com/timescaledb-vs-influxdb-for-time-series- data-timescale-influx-sql-nosql-36489299877/)

[2] [https://blog.timescale.com/what-is-high-cardinality-how- do-t...](https://blog.timescale.com/what-is-high-cardinality-how-do-time- series-databases-influxdb-timescaledb-compare/)

[3] [https://blog.timescale.com/time-series-data-cassandra-vs- tim...](https://blog.timescale.com/time-series-data-cassandra-vs-timescaledb- postgresql-7c2cc50a89ce/)

[4] [https://blog.timescale.com/how-to-store-time-series-data- mon...](https://blog.timescale.com/how-to-store-time-series-data-mongodb-vs- timescaledb-postgresql-a73939734016/)

[5] [https://github.com/timescale/tsbs](https://github.com/timescale/tsbs)

<comment><USER7> > You are correct however that TimescaleDB requires more storage than some of > these other options. If storage is the most important criteria for you (ie > more important than usability or performance), then again I would recommend > you to one of the other databases that are more optimized for compression. > However, you can get 6-8x compression by running TimescaleDB on ZFS today, > and we are also currently working on additional techniques for achieving > higher compression rates.

This is a weird answer since compression is used by columnar databases like MemSQL and Clickhouse to both save on storage and accelerate queries. Compare this to using a generic a filesystem compression which would both compress worse and make the system slower.

<comment><AUTHOR> We haven't really found it to be the case that the system is slower with ZFS. As the sibling mentions, you are trading some CPU for better I/O. We usually see better insert performance and similar/better query latency.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Experiences with Zabbix? I tried it back around a decade ago and wanted to like it, but didn't find it very reliable. And now the details are escaping me. I ended up sticking with Nagios and Opsview. Around 5 years ago I switched to a templated Icinga2 config and have been pretty happy with that, but it's pretty low level.

<comment><USER9> Surprised to see Prometheus hasn't been mentioned yet, and even _Nagios_ is being mentioned as a better alternative. My company (higher-ed, ~100k combined students/fac/staff) is desperately trying to get away from Nagios. Once you get Nagios to the scale where you have to implement mod_gearman, you've gone too far.

I'd recommend taking a look at Prometheus[1]. It has its own _very_ performant TSDB, there's exporters for just about everything, it's the defacto way that things like Kubernetes expose metrics, and it has first class support in Grafana for visualization.

We POC'd Zabbix, Icinga, ScienceLogic, Instana, Sensu, and Prometheus. Prometheus was our favorite. Take a look at the comparison between it and other popular monitoring products to see if it fits your needs though [2].

[1] [https://github.com/prometheus/prometheus](https://github.com/prometheus/prometheus) [2] [https://prometheus.io/docs/introduction/comparison/](https://prometheus.io/docs/introduction/comparison/)

<comment><USER10> The problem I have with Prometheus is, I have most of my nodes in very closed networks I don't have control (Healthcare) and I can't set up proxies so Prometheus can reach them, I can only go outside. So, by now, my best option seems to be InfluxDB, which doesn't look bad to me.

<comment><USER8> I've been using InfluxDB for ~3 years now for storing metrics (almost exclusively via Telegraf, a few custom ones), and it has been great! It replaced a collectd setup and dramatically decreased load across my fleet.

When I first started using it, it was pretty early and had some issues. In fact, I nearly trashed it. I also didn't like the pull vs. push model from Prometheus. They ended up resolving the InfluxDB issues I was having right as I was about to give up on it, and it's been solid since. I use it with Grafana to generate graphs of system use. I set it up before TICK was a thing.

<comment><USER11> I was about to like InfluxDB but ever since people say it eats memory and your data, I stopped caring.

[https://github.com/VictoriaMetrics/VictoriaMetrics/wiki/FAQ](https://github.com/VictoriaMetrics/VictoriaMetrics/wiki/FAQ)

("How does VictoriaMetrics compare to InfluxDB?")

<comment><USER8> That hasn't been my experience. I've been running it for ~3 years in our dev, stg, and prod environments. Prod is using 1.5GB of RAM on a 5GB instance. I've never had a data loss issue.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Zabbix is like a step up from Nagios. I don't know how they can even stay relevant with Prometheus.

</comment><comment><USER13> My experience with timescaledb is - it does not support gorilla encoding. So the storage needs for it is very high.

<comment><USER14> Gorilla TSDB format paper for those who might not get the reference: [https://www.vldb.org/pvldb/vol8/p1816-teller.pdf](https://www.vldb.org/pvldb/vol8/p1816-teller.pdf)

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> The biggest problem I've had with timescale systems is managing the SSDs/HDDs underneath.

Having to resize/grow/stripe/etc. them is a pain.

So we came up with a clever solution that batches chunks to S3:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_WqBuEA7s8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_WqBuEA7s8)

$10/day for 100M records (100GB data), all costs!

And best yet, reduced DevOps! Very practical, super simple.

<comment><USER16> Timescale engineer here. Just want to point out that you can also attach additional disks using tablespaces, which are fully supported on hypertables. With a few simple commands, this allows you to add new disks and move old disks out of rotation while still being able to query the old data on them.</comment></comment>


Reddit explains their architecture, scaling and recent downtime - <AUTHOR> http://blog.reddit.com/2010/03/and-fun-weekend-was-had-by-all.html

<comment><USER2> "It turns out that this one little decision makes it so that we can't horizontally scale that layer of our architecture without losing all the data already there (because all of the keys would point to the wrong server if we added a new one)."

I'm surprised they're looking to switch stacks entirely as opposed to a consistent hashing / distributed hash table (a la chord, dynamo, etc.)

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistent_hashing>

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chord_(peer-to-peer)>

<comment><USER3> We can't just switch hashing at this point, because none of the data would be in the right place.

Since we have to move all the data anyway, we figured now would be a good time to switch stacks. Memcachedb isn't really a very solid product, so even if we scale it, it isn't a good long term solution.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I love how transparent reddit is about these sorts of things. In their video from pycon, they even discussed their server hosting bills!

Crazy how such a minor design decision (not using consistent hashing) could have such huge consequences down the line...

</comment><comment><USER5> "[memcached] can no longer return data fast enough for our needs, due to the way it interacts with BDb (its underlying data store)."

Does anyone know what the specific issue being alluded to here is?

<comment><USER6> MemcacheDB periodically flushes its in-memory DB to disk, using BDb. That causes a global read/write lock for a looooong time. (This pauses BCC for 5 seconds at a time when it happens, and I only have 20 MB stored in memcachedb. To rectify this I'm moving to Redis as soon as I get a day free. Suffice it to say that if Bingo Card Creator taxes the architecture of your key/value store, you may not quite be ready for prime time.)

<comment><USER7> I may be a bit biased, but if what they want is a fast persistent cache Redis should really be a good fit.

<comment><USER8> Does Redis block when writing to disk?

<comment><USER7> No writes are asynchronous.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> "It is a highly customized user experience, on par with something like Facebook (just not as many users)"

Really, Reddit?

While, I don't doubt that they have complexities to deal with, this sounds like skewed perspective of either overestimating their own complexity, or underestimating Facebook's.

<comment><USER3> We have had multiple discussions with the Facebook folks, and are well aware of the complexities of both sites. I believe you are actually underestimating reddit's complexity.

Here are some examples:

When you load a comments page with 500 comments, there are 1000s of data points that have to be loaded. For every comment, we have to check how you voted on it to draw the arrows, we have to check if you are the author, we have to check if you are allowed to remove that comment as a moderator, we have to check if you can edit it, if the author is your friend, and so on. And we have to do that 500 times.

When you load a listing, we have to pull your subscriptions, and then merge the results from all the reddits you subscribe to. Then we have to check most of the same things as we do for comments.

After all that checking, we have a to render a page that is customized just for you. Some of that will come from the render cache and some from the data cache, but it is still highly customized.

The big difference is that Facebook doesn't have any logged out users, whereas we do.

Akamai takes care of our logged out users, but rendering the page for a logged in user is extremely complicated.

<comment><USER9> Thanks for the reply --

And I'm not trying to be difficult, but... I'm not convinced.

In your scenario, the 500 comments are already loaded for any user. The comments you have authored are a small dataset, not a check for each and every comment. (At least, I HOPE not.) Similarly for your friends comments... and whether or not you are a mod is a single check.

For the average thread and user, this really should be a handful of checks. Surely, there are some very active users with many friends for whom the checks could hit numbers in the 1000s. But that should be the edge case, shouldn't it?

Same thing for loading a listing. Pulling subscriptions and merging sounds like just DB query design. All the "same things as we do for comments" should be minimized as described above.

Rending a page is just that -- rendering... highly customized, yes. But customized on the previously discussed criteria, not a while new set of customizations.

And like you said, if you aren't logged in, none of this applies.

Which all begs two questions: 1) What percentage of users are logged in? 2) What percentage of page renders really fit the scenario you described above, with enough comments and related data points that the checks hit 4 digits?

If you come back and say 90% of your page renders needs 1000 data points, I'd certainly concede the point. But I'd be very surprised. (And highly suggest that new algorithms are needed.)

But I'm sincerely honest what those percentages are?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Two things surprise me about this article - probably because I've misunderstood it and don't see the big picture.

One is that there are master and slave databases and searches are done off the master - I've always seen them done off the slaves in other systems. The other is that they state that using MD5 doesn't allow for horizontal scaling. One of the qualities of MD5 is that all bits have an equal probability of being 0/1. Surely the last 1 or 2 bits can be used to indicate which server is holding the data?

<comment><USER11> Searches are likely done off slaves - I suspect that is not presented properly because of the oversimplification of the diagram.

You can just use a few bits from an MD5 hash to decide server as long as you know how many servers you're going to have up front. The problem is that if you later wanted to add or remove a server, you would need to come up with a new scheme and move every piece of data around so it's on the right server (which would take days/weeks).

The more scalable/flexible solution is to use a consistent hashing algorithm (check out some of the papers on Chord) so that adding or removing a server doesn't require you to move as much data around.</comment></comment>


Police-issued "courtesy cards" help friends and family out of minor infractions - <AUTHOR> https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/v7gxa4/pba-card-police-courtesy-cards <comment><USER2> If curious, see this discussion about the topic from early 2018:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16207890](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16207890)

</comment><comment><USER3> The simplest way to fix a huge amount of problems that exist in the USA would be to start holding the police accountable for their actions.

This is police corruption, an especially harmful category of corruption that undermindes our entire legal system. It should be 5 years minimum in federal prison. Police should recieve drastically stronger charges and sentences when they violate the law, not the other way around. If someone above was found to have known about it and didn't report it should be 2x.

You show me a problem in modern america (maybe except healthcare) and I bet I could argue this one policy would fix it in one roundabout way or another.

It won't happen for a bunch of structural reasons unless a major party took it up as a major part of their platform but it would work.

Come to think of it, this is one of the very few things one of the major parties could do to get me to vote for them.

<comment><USER4> Require malpractice insurance for police; require that they pay it themselves, not as part of a union or from their civilian employer. Require insurance companies to set prices solely by service record of the individual and of the unit and of the city/county/state employer.

Commit a felony, lose your insurance coverage, be unemployable. Happens to doctors; why shouldn't it happen to police?

Go to work for a misbehaving department, watch your premium rise.

Act professionally your whole career, watch your premium drop.

Everybody likes incentives here. Police don't have many right now.

<comment><USER5> Of all the systems the US has I think the insurance industry is the last to come to mind to fix a problem.

<comment><USER6> "Tort" (insurance's cousin) is but one of the many gods in the cathedrals people build to avoid blaming hate.

<comment><USER7> Tory is not really anything to do with insurance; it is a very old legal concept referring to any kind of job bodily harm to the interest of another.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> > he frequently receives PBA cards as a thank-you for extending cops small > business favors and deals

This is corruption. I've never understood how things like this can happen in the US - why is this tolerated?

If this happened in the UK I'm fairly sure it would be raised in the press, then parliament and then the Home Secretary (in charge of policing) would be forced to make a statement and likely do something about it.

<comment><USER9> I think it's corruption too, but I have to roll my eyes at "If this happened in the UK..."

The police, and city councils, in the UK have tacitly permitted, for decades, systematic child rape as seen in the Rotterham grooming scandal [1] and numerous others throughout the country. How can you suggest that cops wouldn't look the other way for minor infractions when there are countless examples of them ignoring obscene and severe crimes of the worst sort against the most vulnerable?

I don't want this to come off as a "my country is better than yours" but at the same time, I don't think using the UK police as an example of anything to aspire to is a good idea.

1 -[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_explo...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal)

<comment><USER10> That's absolute bollocks. The uk police has oversight from the IOPC and you can read all about the ongoing conduct investigation for that cherry picked example here [https://policeconduct.gov.uk/news/independent- investigation-...](https://policeconduct.gov.uk/news/independent- investigation-under-way-relating-gmp%E2%80%99s-operation-augusta)

<comment><USER9> Cherry picked? The "see also" section lists another 6 "grooming gang" scandals across the country and I have no reason to think that's comprehensive. UK police permitting the organized rape of children seems the norm rather than the exception from what I can tell.

The fact that there is an investigation decades after the fact doesn't really negate what I've written.

My point isn't really about the grooming gang scandals though. My point is: UK police look the other way for the crime of child rape, why should I believe they don't look the other way for minor infractions?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> What the actual fuck ?

From an outside-the-US perspective, the stack of "Things I'd never believe about the USA, please, Alex" is just getting higher and higher.

How is it legal to have preferential treatment, no matter under what circumstances, for 'friends of the police'? Is Lady Liberty not famously blind while balancing the scales of justice ? Does the maxim "justice must not only be done, it must be seen to be done" somehow not apply in the USA ?

Over the last few years, it seems to me the rock that used to be the USA has been overturned, and all the slimy creepy little nasties are being exposed to the harsh light of day. What happens in a few months is going to be critical to the soul of your nation. Get it right, I doubt you'll recover if you don't.

<comment><USER12> I assure you, "friend of the police" cards have been going on for more than a few years. And from what my military friends tell me, handing a cop your military ID tends to work just as well.

<comment><USER13> In some communities other memberships can also hold sway. I remember one person mentioning some sort of scouting membership getting him out of a traffic stop.

<comment><USER14> The officer puts you in a category within seconds of meeting you - citizen, perp or 'blue line'. Their response depends upon this judgement call.

My son the disable vet could not seem to get a ticket. He occasionally speeds, not egregiously, but the Fort Benning parking sticker on his truck window and the military ID in his wallet made a difference in the attitude of the officer.

<comment><USER15> In my city, you'll sometimes see people riding around with the official cap or bumper sticker of the police union on the back of their car. It's no mystery why.

<comment><USER16> Is it really that surprising that ingratiating yourself to someone who has power or resources on average makes you better off? Nothing about this has anything to do with police.

You get a "baker's dozen" because the baker likes you.

<comment><USER17> The baker isn't in charge of enforcing laws. Nor is the baker given a gun by the state with the expectation of using it.

There is a big, bright line between "favors for valued customers" and "corruption".

<comment><USER16> But we're not talking about bright line corruption here. We're talking about police being nicer and more lenient to their in-groups: veterans, other cops, emts, firefighters, personal friends, family, politicians they like, police union reps, the clerk at the Dunkin' Donuts that always adds a shot of espresso on the house.

The cards are literally corruption and bleh, but being friendly with the cops (or anyone) getting you special treatment sometimes is a human thing.

<comment><USER18> > _But we're not talking about bright line corruption here._

Yes, we are. A public official doing a law-related favor for someone based on their group affiliation is exactly what corruption is.

> _being friendly with the cops (or anyone) getting you special treatment > sometimes is a human thing._

That is not a universe anyone should have to live in. If you miss out on an extra baked good because you're not buddies with the baker, it's no big deal. If a cop treats you more harshly because you're not a friend of the police, that _is_ a big deal.

Bakers can't deprive you of your life and freedom. Cops can.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> I once got pulled over for speeding in the middle of Kansas. The cop who was giving me my ticket told me that they had a program for avoiding having the ticket reported so your insurance rates won't rise. So I went along with it, and mailed the cost of the ticket plus a hundred dollars to that city's police department, care of the "sheriff's benevolent association" (or similar -- it's been a decade, the name is fuzzy to me).

...it remains one of the more blatantly shady-feeling things I remember encountering in the US.

<comment><USER20> In the same category of the "Unhooking fee" a tow truck will charge--you can pick up your car from impound for $200, or you can pay the tow driver $200 on the spot and save the hassle.

Though obviously lesser significance than the same behaviors from your police force.

<comment><USER21> To be honest, it seems like if a tow truck had to be called out to tow you, the tow company has earned something even if they didn't tow you to impound.

<comment><USER20> Depends, there's plenty of cases in some cities where the tow trucks aren't called, they just prowl around for any minor infraction. I remember Columbus OH being particularly bad about this--things that in a normal world might warrant a parking ticket, you're towed in minutes.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> For the curious: a more regional[1] form of this petty corruption in the NYC area is placard abuse[2]. It's pretty common to see cars with these parked in front of hydrants, in bike lanes, etc, being completely ignored by the police.

[1]: As far as I know, being a lifelong New Yorker.

[2]: [https://twitter.com/placardabuse](https://twitter.com/placardabuse)

<comment><USER23> The Houston area PD has an organization called the "100 Club" [0] where you can donate to get a nice sticker. Each year has a different color, so it's easy to show how long you've been a member. [1]

Officially they're just to support the LEO orgs, but there's also anecdata in my friend group that having one (or more) makes you more likely to get out of most things with just a warning.

[0]: [https://the100club.org/about/#what](https://the100club.org/about/#what) [1]: [https://twitter.com/sighborgs/status/1246113527158497282](https://twitter.com/sighborgs/status/1246113527158497282)

<comment><USER22> Apropos of nothing: apart from being similar to the placard racket, I wonder how many people who donate to this organization realize that their dollars are being used to buy MRAPs[1], not pay for the educations of the children of dead cops.

[1]: [https://the100club.org/newsroom/](https://the100club.org/newsroom/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> I couldn't believe it when I found out that these are a real, actual thing. I don't see how anyone in the US can cast stones at any other nation for corrupt police accepting bribes when you can largely get carte blanche just for being 'in the club' there.

<comment><USER25> While I think this practice is bad and should end, it's not the same. Not everyone has these cards, whereas anyone can bribe.

<comment><USER26> I'm not sure that is in the "better" column. At least anyone with access to some cash can pass a bribe. Here we are making it a more exclusive to those who hang in the right circles. That to me is more corrupt.

Even the signal it is sending stinks. The law should apply even to other cops (on and off duty but that is another story) equally as any other citizen. If just being friends with a cop gets you some special entitlement then what does being a cop mean, near total immunity?

<comment><USER27> > If just being friends with a cop gets you some special entitlement then what > does being a cop mean, near total immunity?

That's been more or less the case, yes. That and the systemic racism exhibited while they get this near-total immunity is a large driver behind the recent protests.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> I find unequal enforcement of the law to be one is it's worst aspects. There is not only officer discretion, but there is also discretion several places in the judicial system and privilege in being able to hire better legal council. Some neighborhoods are policed more heavily than others. Some groups of people are targeted more heavily than others. Some city police departments enforce state/federal laws unevenly.

There should be one law for everyone, and if two random people with similar criminal histories break the same law in different places we should expect their outcomes and sentencing to be very similar. Right now this is far from the case.

<comment><USER29> I agree, but at the same time the alternative is zero tolerance.

Maybe the big problem is not the discretion, but that it isn't recorded? For example, i think it is complete corruption that LEOs and their families generally get "professional courtesy". I've heard the argument that it is a perk of the job. I disagree, but if you accept that argument, I would say: let the judge and courts handle the forgiveness of the offense and have it recorded in documents. Make it an official procedure and it will not look like corruption.

<comment><USER28> > I agree, but at the same time the alternative is zero tolerance.

I think it's unfair to use term zero tolerance to describe equal enforcement. Zero tolerance is a specific sentencing pattern which uses harsh punishments for crimes. Equal enforcement is about making sure all groups have the same relationship with the law. If the laws on the books are overly harsh once enforced than we should change those laws.

<comment><USER30> The public would be better served by reducing the number of things that are illegal to only those things that deserve to be enforced with 'zero tolerance'.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> The mere appearance of corruption in police is enough of a problem. Even in minor cases.

Debating whether this is bribery or nepotism is pointless, because the appearance this gives should be plenty to fire officers who hand out such cards.

Conveniently, they supposedly write their name on the cards they hand out :)

</comment><comment><USER32> Sounds like the CHP 11-99 Foundation license plate frame, which could (allegedly) get you out of speeding tickets [0]

[0] [https://priceonomics.com/can-you-buy-a-license-to- speed/](https://priceonomics.com/can-you-buy-a-license-to-speed/)

</comment><comment><USER33> The big problem in the US is the lack of automated speed enforcement. When you have officers doing traffic enforcement it inevitably turns into a corrupt shit show, and if you're black, you might not even live through it.

Although its now 2020, where every 300 gram toy drone will automatically refuse to fly anywhere near an airport. It took 0 drones taking down 0 airplanes to do that. Modern cars can trivially enforce the speed limit, but we have ten thousands of deaths and counting every year and it's not happening.

<comment><USER34> _Modern cars can trivially enforce the speed limit_

Not sure about everywhere, but speed limits are first glance limits in at least some places, where other evidence can prove that a speed above the limit was not "speeding". Speed limits don't know what traffic is doing, they don't know road conditions, they don't know if you have an emergency. They're just a number set by ideally an engineer, or less ideally a party with conflicting interests (revenue).

I had to drive someone to an emergency room once. There wasn't time or money for an ambulance. If my car was automatically enforcing speed limits, they might have died.

Moreover there are _far, far, far_ fewer no-fly zones than speed limit zones. A no-fly zone is a fairly simple polygon -- are you inside or outside. Every street has its own speed limit, which can vary from 5mph to 80mph in the US, and traffic on some freeways is consistently higher than 80. Some highways have dynamic speed limits, e.g. 65 at night and 55 during rush hour. School zones and pedestrian crossings have limits based on whether someone has switched on a light, or times of day, or even just the presence of children.

So no, you cannot have, and do not want, automated in-vehicle enforcement of speed limits.

<comment><USER33> No, the fact that US people can't call an ambulance for risk of bankruptcy is not a good reason to allow cars to accelerate to 120 mph in cities.

That's the point here: you can add cities as simple convex polys and you are already 80% of the way there. Drones don't need to listen to air traffic either.

<comment><USER35> The ambulance emergency is just one example, there are many more that you aren't considering. As one more example there are many passing situations, such as pretty much any two lane highway, where it's perfectly acceptable to break the speed limit for a brief period. I can think of other exceptions too and this is just after thinking about it for a minute, there are probably thousands of real world situations neither of us could think of ahead of time.

Plus, this is all assuming such a system could be implementing flawlessly. In practice, such a complicated and messy system would have a million bugs. Who keeps the speed limit database of every single road in country up to date? How are all of the precise boundaries of every single speed limit zone going to be defined and recognized by every vehicle?

<comment><USER36> > As one more example there are many passing situations, such as pretty much > any two lane highway, where it's perfectly acceptable to break the speed > limit for a brief period.

That's not true legally speaking and I'm pretty sure it's not true from a driving standpoint. Why would it be acceptable to break the speed limit to overtake somebody? If you need to speed to be faster than somebody you shouldn't be passing them. If they speed up during the passing manoeuver you should probably slow down and fall back.

<comment><USER34> It's a pretty frequent problem for someone to be going 10mph below a 55mph limit. To pass safely you have to go well above the limit for a few seconds, even if they don't speed up, so that you aren't in the oncoming lane for too long.

 _If they speed up during the passing manoeuver you should probably slow down and fall back._

If there's oncoming traffic, sure, but not as a matter of principle. Once you start passing, you should definitely finish unless it becomes dangerous to do so.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> The fundamental issue here is that being a normal person puts you on the wrong side of the law and/or the punishments for being on the wrong side of the law are too severe.

<comment><USER38> That is just a symptom of the problem as the tyrannical administrative bureaucratic police state expands at exponential rates, to cheers and demands for ever more control by mommy and daddy government.

But to your point, you are correct, the only people left on the wrong side of the law are law abiding productive people who do not have personal connections to law enforcement. Ever other group gets treated with a light touch and has excuses made for them and criminals are now getting off the hook left and right, while the anarcho-tyrannical administrative state increases it's abuses of regular productive and peaceful people.

It's either by design, out of desperation, or due to incompetence; but it will not end well for any of us, regardless.

<comment><USER37> I find it unsurprising but disheartening that this was flagged.

The entire administrative bureaucracy is in on this racket and it's unfair to pick in the police alone for it. In my state it's not just the police that peddle influence like this. Many state agencies have little identifiers that range from IDs to bumper stickers that they give to their employees with the unspoken purpose of signaling "don't screw me, I work for your team". The most coveted are the court system ones because no matter what agency is trying to screw you none of them want to piss off people who work for the courts. My state also has all sorts of ways to wave fines and whatnot for economic hardship reasons (which I fully support). This creates effectively three classes of people, those who are part of the in-group and treated decently by government. Those who have money and are preyed upon by government. And those who don't have money and are ignored by government unless they are committing serious (i.e. violent) crime because the government gains nothing by cracking down on them. Why can't the government just treat everyone like the former or the latter or, even better, repeal all the stupid laws that have wildly low compliance rates?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> You don't need a physical card.

A friend of mine who used to get into trouble all the time when he was a teenager got away with a ton of stuff. His father was a chief or something, so every local cop just knew who he was.

You don't want to arrest your boss's son.

<comment><USER40> Yeah, these cards are basically a way of extending behavior that has always occurred in small departments to a larger force where the police can't possibly know everyone they are "supposed" to give favors to.

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> There used to be something similar in the UK IIRC - the traffic police nicknamed themselves "black rats". If you had a sticker of the black rat mascot/logo on the back of your car then you were either a traffic officer, or someone close to them (wife/husband/etc) and a wink and a nod an you were on your way. I don't think it was a deliberate "get out of jail" move - just more of a "Oh you have a sticker for my unit's mascot on your car!" recognition type thing.

I think it kinda stopped when they started giving away the stickers on "enthusiast" car/motorbike magazines etc

<comment><USER31> Lol, I suppose as the cards carries no real legitimacy, it's not illegal to fake them.

That said, being stopped by cop who notices that it's fake probably isn't a good idea :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> I've also noticed in a lot of states that cars have the "fraternal order of police" sticker, and it is affixed right on their licence plate.

I suspect its for a similar reason, that either if you get your plate's picture taken or local police can see that right away.

<comment><USER43> yep, its a signal to officers that you went out of your way to donate extra money to the police force so that they are more forgiving as they approach your car or just don't pull you over to begin with.

<comment><USER44> I think that today a Trump 2020 bumper sticker would have the same effect.

<comment><USER45> There is a chilling effect in the other direction as well. I'm not too keen on decorating my car to support various things I do support (candidate/BLM/etc) because I know the cops might treat me worse with that on my car... fun times.

<comment><USER46> I just have two Seattle Mariners bumper stickers on my truck; haven't been pulled over since putting em on, so they must think I have enough misery as it is!

/s I think the real issue is that it has been decided somehow that it is our fault for being policed and experiencing the frequent resulting injustices. A police officer can pull you over, stop you walking down the street, etc. etc. and fine you, jail you, or brutalize you at will, and in all but the most egregious cases (that also must become a cause celebre), they can just do it again tomorrow. There's always some justification, no matter how flimsy! That's not to say this violence is evenly distributed among the population. POC, the poor and working class, those who work odd hours and have to drive at 3 AM etc. certainly have a much, much, much harder time than e.g. the median HN commenter. But the answer to the question "What's stopping a given police officer from e.g. breaking my arm while pulling me out of my vehicle?" is much less "they will suffer consequences if they do" and much more "they haven't decided it's what they want to do today"

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> In the USA legislators and others in government have publicly voiced their support of, contributed to, and organized bail funds for specific groups of people based on their views on particular topics. One Presidential candidate's campaign (through its staffers) has also paid money towards something called the "Minnesota Freedom Fund". Why is there a contribution only to this fund? If you protest animal testing and are arrested for some similar crime, where is your bail fund? In those cases you have to organize the money yourself, people in your government don't organize it for you.

Philosophically, government is supposed to serve everyone equally, but depending on the political views of the alleged criminal, or the self- proclaimed cause that they are supporting while performing allegedly illegal acts under the banner of "civil disobedience" or "peaceful protest", there is an availability of bail funds, selective prosecution, and all sorts of other features of the justice system available on a selective basis - i.e. the banner under which the illegality takes place.

If the principle of selective/unequal dispensation of justice is wrong, it ought to be criticized irrespective of the form it takes. When it is ignored in some forms but other forms result in outrage, it's difficult not to question the motivations of whoever is amplifying this particular flavor of bias.

If it is acceptable for the system to consider banners and offer different features to offenders depending on which banner they are flying when they interact with the system, then this is also acceptable.

I personally would prefer a conversation that looks at the problem of selective enforcement across many spheres.

<comment><USER48> Or we could just eliminate cash bail, for everyone. It's been eliminated in my state for most crimes, and they are trying it out in other states as well. It's not perfect, but it results in a lot less people in jail because they can't pay, and it hasn't made us any less safe.

Otherwise, I don't think you're going to solve the issue of "people only donating bail money to people they like." Because people are going to spend money the way they want.

</comment></comment><comment><USER49> My neighbor in Austin is a lawyer for the police union. He would hand these cards out to everyone in the cul-de-sac along with some booze for Christmas presents. There's a little "CLEAT" sticker that you can put in your back window too.

I put the sticker in the window of one car but not the other.

In the car without the sticker... I got pulled over in West Texas visiting relatives, and the cop literally had his gun drawn as he came to my window. Alone on a dark and empty road, guy with a gun on you -- probably the scariest moment of my life.

In the car with the sticker, in a similar small town in West Texas (lots of speed traps between Austin and Midland)... as the officer was walking to my car he saw the sticker and his whole body language instantly shifted. He got to my window, "Hope I didn't scare you with the lights, you don't seem like you're from around here. Are you lost? Just trying to be neighborly."

I was going 20-ish miles over the speed limit both times.

I looked into getting another sticker and it literally only cost me $25. Significantly better treatment from police doesn't cost very much. Anyway, yup corrupt as fuck... but as long as these exist, for a simple $25 donation, might as well have a CLEAT sticker in your window.

Also, what really bugs me... Police in Texas are allowed to unionize, but Teachers are not. Oof. Been here almost 20 years now, I love a lot of things about Texas, but some of the politics still suck.

PS: Also I keep a Book of the Mormon in my glove compartment, that way if I ever do get pulled over I just casually grab the book when looking for insurance papers. For some reason seems like a lot of cops in Texas are Mormons...

<comment><USER50> Lund, "Bible on the Dash": [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S00y75ebq8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S00y75ebq8)

<comment><USER49> Ha, spot on.

When you find a flaw, do you fix the system or game the system?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> > The cards embody everything wrong with modern policing.

That's a pretty broad claim. The cards aren't even big enough to LIST everything wrong with modern policing.

<comment><USER52> The cards represent corruption, self-interest, and selective enforcement of the law. I think a lot of problems would be solved or help accountable for if those issues were resolved.

</comment></comment><comment><USER53> This has been a common thing forever. Whether it's right is very much and should be up for discussion but I'm surprised at how many people seem to be learning this for the first time.

Same thing worked with the small silver shields you could give out. I don't really agree with how policing is done in the US and it has started more than one fight with my long retired former police father but as a matter of practicality I still carry his silver shield with me.

He hasn't been an officer since I was 5 or so but even in high school the active police families and the families with ada's or prosecutors all had PBA cards and would give them out.

<comment><USER54> Very much been around forever. The PBA cards are common in NY and NJ, where cops are basically a legalized mafia. In areas where PBA cards are not the norm, a simple business card with the officer's signature plays the same role.

"If there's a problem, you can check with my friend Officer so and so. Here's his card."

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> Presumably this sort of thing will become harder to maintain as bodycams become more prevalent.

It seems plausible that anti-corruption NGOs could request the bodycam footage (anonymized, I suppose) under public records disclosure laws. (e.g. see [https://www.rcfp.org/bodycam-video-access/](https://www.rcfp.org/bodycam- video-access/), though I'd be really interested in what others think about the likely legal interpretations of disclosure requirements.)

Yet another reason to push for more bodycams, and auditability/disclosure of that footage; sunlight is often the best disinfectant.

<comment><USER56> The problem right now is that camera footage is handled by the police departments. Any oversight requires the police to operate in good faith. Thinking back to how many news reports I've seen where the footage was "lost" or "the cameras were not switched on" I don't have any trust in that type of system.

We really need third party monitoring.

<comment><USER57> Plus, think of the thousands of hours of footage that is regularly collected. Without some incident or reason to inspect the video, most of the incidents would go undetected.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER58> Pretty confused why this post got flagged, but I did put together a (strong) personal opinion a while back[^0] that touches on these topics. I didn't publish it because a friend gave me a counter opinion I couldn't find a time to respond to, but I suppose it might as well be public now.

[^0]: [https://smaslennikov.com/posts/enforcement/](https://smaslennikov.com/posts/enforcement/)

</comment><comment><USER59> The first step to being an authoritarian is separating the in-group from the out-group so you can deal out harsh punishment to one and be forgiving to the other.

</comment><comment><USER60> 30 years ago (quite exact), we drove back after a 48 hour "party" in Berlin (Roger Waters playing "the wall" at the broken down wall). We got stopped at the border (Germany > Holland) and I drove. We where tired, still high and half drunk.

When the border patrol asked me (the driver) for papers, it took me a long time to produce them and one of my friends woke up, asked what was going on and pulled out his official "bridge operator" badge. Showed it (before I was even capable to find my driving licence and passport) to the trooper and just said "Hi partner": we where waved through.

When I asked what the actual F just had happened, he told me his job made him an "non commissioned officer" and that was all it took for us to be treated as part of the blue family, who go to great lengths to "help each other".

Different times, different continent, same rules.

</comment><comment><USER61> The equivalent in our industry is when somebody gets locked out of a Google/Apple/etc. multi-service account, has no backup or rescue access, but is put in touch with a friend of a friend who happens to work at the vendor. It's systemic favoritism.

<comment><USER62> I wish people would keep these kinds of situations in mind when discussing whether or not a certain industry is a "meritocracy".

<comment><USER63> I have no idea what you are saying?

Having friends in an industry is hard work, so it a meritocracy, it is well earned to have made contacts that will help you.

In this article it's perhaps family, but a family that supports their childrens career in a blue collar job like policing, in a meritocracy, also deserve the reward.

In policing perhaps it's illegal or should be illegal. But it's still a meritocracy.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER64> The recent focus on racial bias in policing has had a negative outcome: to distract attention from the fact that the law is being applied unevenly across the US.

Racial bias in police encounters is a symptom, not the disease.

<comment><USER65> This is true, but the racial bias is easier to get people to rally behind. And it's gotten people talking more about the non-racial injustices in our justice system, too.

</comment></comment><comment><USER66> What I don't get is:

\- The police need social capital. It helps enormously if they can be take at face value for "just doing their job". And this would help in the minor day- to-day interactions that makes up the majority of their working lives.

\- Not only is it blatant corruption, the very existence of such cards harms the whole police forces social relationship! It is a "associate infraction with a cop!" card!

If I were a true friend of the police, I would:

\- let them do their job fairly (while not letting them get away with unfair)

\- not try to associate a cop buddy of mine with _my_ poor decisions!

</comment><comment><USER67> This is real at least in the NY area. NY law gives officers "discretion" in issuing violations (not crimes). That doesn't have a limit. So being friends with a fellow PO is technically not an illegal reason to not issue a violation. I agree that it is not fair. Generally though if you do something like drive 30 over the limit, they aren't going to let you off with a card.

But a non connected person can get pulled over for something minor and get every ticket they can. This snowballs for poor people that then have more fines on top of fines.

</comment><comment><USER68> I feel like we're at a crossroads: Hire huge battalions of union dues-paying forever-rookie police behind an iron curtain and arm them to the teeth, or Operate a modernized, transparent, outcomes-based criminal justice system. It would be interesting to understand why so many politicians and police themselves talk about the latter while quietly implementing the former. What's in it for them?

</comment><comment><USER69> I had one of these.

I was given it not having slightest idea what it was for (was only in the NYC/US about two years at that point). I was told its meaning a couple of years later when I found it again during a move.

I've thrown it out.

While I appreciate the gesture from the person who gave it to me, I was repelled by what it represented in terms of how privilege and the police system work.

</comment><comment><USER70> Last paragraph:

"Policing was never meant to be held accountable in the first place, not in a meaningful, substantial way," Wall said. He cautioned against focusing too much on the injustice of PBA cards. "Be careful that the outrage [doesn't] become directed in too narrow a way. The real outrage should be directed at the nature of policing itself."

</comment><comment><USER71> Also available on eBay (of course)

[https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m...](https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=PBA+cards+&_sacat=0)

</comment><comment><USER72> I know two people who had these in New Jersey. One used to speed all the time and never get a ticket or warnings. Super convenient for them. It was a legit card, a metal one, I saw it. Pretty corrupt there in New Jersey.

</comment><comment><USER73> So... "protection" like under the mafia but only if you can afford the state price, so its supporters invariably are high in the food^Wdecision chain. It doesn't seem like a very democratic rule of law.

</comment><comment><USER74> Hahaha, I love it. They literally formalized the old boys' network.

</comment><comment><USER75> So we are now using monopoly rules to run a country?

A literal get-out-of-jail-free card!

<comment><USER76> There's literally a monopoly "go" tile on it. Contrast this with the UK where the coppers like to get "go to jail" t shirts.

</comment></comment><comment><USER77> Wait till y'all learn about "fraternal order of police" fundraisers and car stickers identifying donors, allowing "discretion" to be used by the cop to let the violation go.

</comment><comment><USER78> In Ohio it's is common to see license plates with police badges or stickers on them. They are handed out to friends and family and deter officers from pulling you over.

<comment><USER79> Almost all cops I know are specifically told to take all things that could identify them as cops or friends of cops off their cars, windows, etc. since there is so much targeted violence and crime specifically directed against police. And this is in relatively safe NJ suburban areas. Tires on their personal cars get slashed all the time due to having a badge in a window or similar.

<comment><USER80> People drive pickup trucks with a 6' trump flag and a 6' thin blue line flag mounted to each side of the bed in the midwest. different animal than the east coast.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER81> This is a common sort of corruption, worldwide.

Here in Australia, my receptionist has got out of a few minor traffic infringements because her husband is a friend of a cop.

</comment><comment><USER82> Around here you see a lot of people with plastic stars they give out for "donating" to police organizations screwed onto the rear license plate.

</comment><comment><USER14> Seems sketchy. But even the TSA has a 'safe list' of folks who can skip the line - is this morally different? Law enforcement identifies folks who are not habitual offenders, who support law enforcement and who if they abuse the privilege will hear about it from a cop/friend, and give them a card. Not sounding like such a terrible thing to me. Remember, nobody is getting away with murder here.

<edit: elaborate>

</comment><comment><USER83> So "get out of jail free cards" do exist. And here I thought that GTA came up with them.

In 1997

</comment><comment><USER84> Why is Vice always flagged on HN?

</comment><comment><USER85> Sounds like China's social credit system but maybe worse in some ways.

</comment><comment><USER86> This can't _possibly_ be legal, surely? Wtf.

<comment><USER87> Only (or is it 'not even'?) the Police police the Police.

</comment></comment><comment><USER88> Can't find any evidence in this article.

</comment><comment><USER89> Literal get out of jail free cards. JHC.

</comment><comment><USER90> The racial connection here is quite a stretch and sounds like more race baiting. It has nothing to do with that. Knicks players have them. Yankees have them.

</comment><comment><USER91> Hate the game, not the player. This is definitely corruption. BUT, at least, it is supposed to be for _minor infractions_.

Unlike meter maids, police officers _should_ be given leeway to let people go. It's the mandatory minimums and fines you should worry about... cops doing revenue generation for the city. And when their department doesn't get enough from taxes and tickets, police departments across the country turn to civil forfeiture.

Ideally, the officers should act as if everyone has these cards.

[https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/local/20100607_Police_s...](https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/local/20100607_Police_say_don_t_confuse_courtesy_cards_with_a_free_pass.html)

<comment><USER92> > Ideally, the officers should act as if everyone has these cards.

Totally agree with this. I think part of the reason they are in issue is it reduces the political pressure on this happening if some people can get this treatment anyway.</comment></comment>


Ezl, Spark, MPI Experiments on HPC, EC2 and Multicore - <AUTHOR> https://haptork.github.io/easyLambda/docs/benchmarks/ <comment><USER2> FYI, inconsistency in Logistic Regression example: "...while (norm < epsilon) {..." Vs. "...as long as the norm is more than a given epsilon..."

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! corrected.</comment></comment>


Budgetary Hemlock - <AUTHOR> http://www.bostonreview.net/BR36.2/todd_edwin_jones_nevada_philosophy.php <comment><USER2> An odd additional factor is that philosophy departments are actually quite cheap, and at many schools _turn a profit_ (see e.g. [http://www.today.ucla.edu/portal/ut/PRN-bottom-line-shows- hu...](http://www.today.ucla.edu/portal/ut/PRN-bottom-line-shows-humanities- really-155771.aspx)). Their faculty earn relatively low salaries, grad students are paid little to nothing, and there is no equipment to purchase or maintain. They're so dramatically cheaper than some other fields that the total expense is often actually less than the tuition charged for the credit- hours they teach.

<comment><USER3> Obligatory joke:

Dean, to the physics department: "Why do I always have to give you guys so much money, for laboratories and expensive equipment and stuff? Why couldn't you be like the math department? All they need is money for pencils, paper and waste-paper baskets? Or even better, why aren't you like the philosophy department? All they need are pencils and paper."

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> That makes sense, seeing as most philosophy isn't that useful.

Let the students read some Socratese, some Stoic, some John Locke and some Aristolean writings - that should enlighten them enough.

<comment><USER5> Huh? If you're having the students read that, presumably with a professor to direct discussion, isn't that just _having a philosophy dept_?

<comment><USER6> A philosophy department is the waterfall approach to teaching philosophy. You come up with a plan for how many students you will have in 10-30 years, hire professors to teach that number of students, pay about 2x the necessary cost so the professors do research as well [1], and hope your big design up front works. With this plan, you incur huge fixed costs for very little benefit, and impose big limitations on your future choices.

Instead, you could go lean. Hire some PTLs, pay them no benefits, just a lump sum per class. If enrollment drops next semester, you cut the number of classes and don't renew their contract. Don't pay them for research at all.

[1] A heavy teaching load is 4+4. That's 12 hours of classtime/week, maybe 20-30 hours of actual teaching related work. This typically gets full time pay, great benefits, and "can't get fired" job security.</comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: GitRecruit – Source Candidates from GitHub - <AUTHOR> https://gitrecruit.co <comment><USER2> This looks like a promising project. How will the recruiters contact the people they wish to hire through your platform?</comment>


Increased sedentary behaviour alters metabolism and body composition (2018) - <AUTHOR> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29671031 <comment><USER2> "Walking good, sitting bad."

But seriously, I think this sort of adds to the pile of evidence that even small amounts of exercise on a regular basis has marked health impacts.

I'm a Type 1 diabetic so I have the benefit of a sensor that continuously tells me my blood glucose, so I can see the difference between when I'm walking on a daily basis to and from the office, and when I'm working from home. Same breakfast, very different blood glucose averages on those days.

It is worth noting that exercise of almost any kind causes my insulin to potentiate, so that is part of why my glucose levels are lower. But I wouldn't be surprised to hear that my over all insulin sensitivity is higher on walking days (as I gather from this study) which helps to drive my lower glucose numbers.

<comment><USER3> What kind of sensor do you have ? I am not diabetic but I'd like to monitor my sugar level somehow.

<comment><USER2> I use the Medtronic Guardian Plus because it ties into my insulin pump which then regulates how much background insulin to give me. Dexcom, as mentioned in another comment, is a standalone sensor that doesn't tie directly into a pump.

All sensors that I know of are invasive though, so they have to be replaced every 7-10 days, which requires a needle and other things to cover it.

You could also just buy a glucometer (though you'd need a prescription for the test strips, at least in the US) than test once or twice a day and keep a log.

<comment><USER4> >>you'd need a prescription for the test strips

I've bought them on Amazon before, no prescription required. This is to monitor blood sugar right?

<comment><USER5> To be covered by health insurance, glucometer testing strips have to be prescribed.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Walking and the lymphatic system

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20551311](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20551311)

The underappreciated role of muscle in health

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8748147](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8748147)

I live without a car. I have no desire to change that fact. My condition is incurable. Running errands on foot plays a critical role in staving off deterioration that, among other things, puts me at risk for a form of diabetes.

<comment><USER7> Right on. Strength to you.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Rebuilding the world for the comfort of cars was probably a mistake then.

<comment><USER9> Don't worry, that lesson has been learned. Now, the plan is to rebuild the world for the comfort of robot cars.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> "Public health recommendations promoting physical activity should incorporate advice to avoid periods of sedentary behaviour."

How do we interpret and apply information like this? Many people work in front a computer these days so it can't actually be applied to them (read us).

<comment><USER11> Where there's a will, there's a way.

At first I was known as that pushup guy at the office, then all the guys did it with me. It was almost a joke. "Alright, it's pushup time!" and my group did pushups. We even got a pullup bar installed. Some people preferred to take those times to walk a lap outside.

If we're going to generalize about what can/can't be done at a software developer job, punctuating the job with some brief exercise is in the "can" camp.

<comment><USER12> Unfortunately, there are workplaces that will remove things like a pullup bar because it's seen as a distraction.

<comment><USER13> I would be pretty distracted if there were people using pullup bars and doing pushups in my office...

<comment><USER11> If your office consists of just one big room where everything must happen, then pullups/pushups are probably the least of your distractions.

<comment><USER14> As someone who worked in an office with these exact characteristics (complete with a pullup bar), I can vouch that in my case, the pullups were indeed the least of the distractions. The pool table next to all of us was the big problem. High quality noise cancelling headphones did not help at all.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I love the phrase metabolic derangements. It accurately conveys how completely abnormal the changes are.

<comment><USER16> It seems melodramatic to me. And these abnormal changes can be mitigated by walking those 10,000 steps a day they reduced their activity by. That requires a conscious effort, but it's not an onerous burden.

<comment><USER17> It is not melodramatic, it is a technical term being used properly.

You are perhaps thinking about the psychiatric usage implying a significant mental disorder, but here it just means that the system (i.e. metabolism) has been disturbed in its function, e.g. that it is out of normal range.

<comment><USER16> Pendantically yes, and yes, it describes the problem, and used medically it's not melodramatic, but looking at the original comments text:

> It accurately conveys how completely abnormal the changes are.

that would make no sense in the medically accurate context. Derangement being used as "something disturbed in its function" is literally anything being wrong, no matter how minor. It doesn't have to be "completely abnormal", merely abnormal by some means. The post I was responding too clearly doesn't believe it to be a minor dysfunction and wasn't understanding it in the technical context either.

<comment><USER15> It's not a minor dysfunction.

>Pooling data from both groups, following step reduction there was a significant decrease in whole-body insulin sensitivity (Matsuda index) (p < 0.001), muscle insulin sensitivity index (p < 0.001), cardiorespiratory fitness (p = 0.002) and lower limb lean mass (p = 0.004). Further, there was a significant increase in total body fat (p < 0.001), liver fat (p = 0.001) and LDL-cholesterol (p = 0.013), with a borderline significant increase in NEFA AUC during the OGTT (p = 0.050).

Those are incredible p values to find in a human study.

<comment><USER16> But, as I original pointed out, it's mitigated by maintaining a non-extreme level of activity - throwing on ~10,000 steps is the difference here.

<comment><USER17> The fact that the fix is relatively easy is not really a measure of how far off things are - some pretty terrible disorders have easy fixes...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Does anybody understand why some of the numbers are so out of proportion with the length of time spent in the study? They say they lost 0.2-0.3kg of muscle mass in the lower half of the body. But that's a very large change; when you exercise and train properly, the maximum amount of muscle you get is like 0.5kg/month (the study's reduction in activity was two weeks long), and when you gain weight some fraction is always muscle (they didn't gain weight but they gained fat mass and lost muscle mass, IIUC from Table 2).

I remember reading that when you start/stop exercising, your muscles retain a different amount of water depending on how much work they typically do. So is what they got an actual change in body composition?

When they report lowered VO2max of 2.2ml/min/kg, that's ±4.7 according to Table 2. Isn't 2.2ml/min/kg an improbably large change for two weeks, compared to how quickly your VO2max will improve if you, e.g., start running? And why is the SD on that so large?

</comment><comment> vincent-toups There is a good chance you aren't being paid enough to sit at that desk all day.

</comment><comment><USER19> I don't have access to the article - does anyone know what they mean by "sedentary"? From the abstract it looks like there was an 80%/10k reduction in steps taken, which would mean these are people taking ~12.5k steps a day. Is that what they mean by active, or was there a requirement for, e.g., vigorous cardiovascular exercise?

<comment><USER20> It's open access.

[https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2Fs00125-018-4...](https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2Fs00125-018-4603-5.pdf)

>Physical activity was assessed in participants'free-living envi-ronment. A mean daily step count >10,000 was required forparticipants to be eligible. Screening was blinded and consistedof monitoring from midnight to midnight on 4 consecutivedays, including 1 weekend day. If eligible, participantsunderwent their initial assessment visits before being instructedto reduce their activity to ~1500 steps for 14 days

>Mean daily step count was similar between the two groups at baseline: FDR+ve, 12524 ± 2137 vs FDR−ve, 13036 ± 2481 steps (p= 0.391).

>During the step-reduction period, average daily step count decreased by 10285 steps(95% CI 9389, 11182;p< 0.001), a reduction of 81 ± 8%. Inparallel, daily sedentary time increased by an average of223 min (151, 295;p< 0.001) and daily total energy expen-diture (TEE) decreased by an average of 2697 kJ (3008, 2385;p< 0.001). All activity >1.5 METS (i.e. light, moderate andvigorous) decreased during the step-reduction period (allp< 0.001).

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> If you can handle owning a dog, that's a great way to force yourself to get out and walk or run a little every day.

<comment><USER7> If you can't afford a dog, a full sized mirror could be a wise investment.

<comment><USER22> A full sized mirror that leaks onto your carpet if you've not walked enough could be a venture.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> I wish these articles tried to look for a solution. Would standing and waking every 45 mins be good enough? Would standing and then moderate intensity at 45 mins be good enough etc.

What about eating less and more fasting to combat sedentary.

What about a balance board while standing?

<comment><USER24> I wonder if your time would be better spent progressive-overload deadlifting 2x a week?

I don't think you can undo sitting 50-100 hours a week with a few hours of walking any more than fasting a few hours would make up overeating for a month. I'm thinking we need a BIG acute stimulus to counteract a sustained chronic stimulus of inactivity. The dead lift is a VERY BIG stimulus.

<comment><USER25> Similarly, if you are cycling, rowing, running, cross-country skiing, etc., with high intensity, you need to recover. You can recover while sitting at your desk working on your computer. How much recovery can be estimated with TRIMP, and TSS if you have measured your power output.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> I'm a living example of this.

</comment><comment><USER27> Obvious studies crack me up.

It is a shame that PE is continuously being removed from many K12 school curriculums. If you get people into the habit of exercising and being active when they're young it's much easier to maintain that habit into the future.

<comment><USER8> The only thing most kids learn in PE is that exercise is awful and sports are only for jocks.

<comment><USER27> Most? Sounds like your own experience, but that is not the norm

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> So when do we get danger money like troops and guards?

</comment><comment><USER29> On one hand, my body is probably fucked from laying in bed for 18 hours a day, every single day, a year.

On the other hand, moving about is exhausting and hurts so why would I want to do it? I fully plan on killing myself before 30 so it's not like I'll see the knock-on effects.

<comment><USER30> Why are you lying in bed for 18 hours a day? Is it depression or another illness? Don't kill yourself just for turning 30, I am 30 and life keeps on keeping on, just as decently as before. Sure my hair line is a bit receded and I get a bit more aches and pains, but by and large it's the same as before, except I have a stability and future set up that I had only dreamed of at 23.

<comment><USER31> 31 and skating almost everyday, strongest, most handsome & probably most youthful I've ever been since beginning adolescence. Do Recommend.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> I am all for science but I am really curious why we need studies to prove things that are this obvious and simple. Hell just with thought experiments, basic thermodynamic principles and a little Anatomy and Physiology alone you conclude most of these things.

<comment><USER17> Thought experiments based on basic principals and our still too weak understanding of bio-phys can (and have, time and time again) lead you to an awful lot of plausible but wrong conclusions.

There is no real substitute for doing the science.

<comment><USER32> Really we need to do a study that says when you exercise less and sit around your body fat increases specifically in your internal organs. I think this is common sense and how fat accumulation works. This has been proven in the past and should be common knowledge. Insulin dependence related to this makes a little sense for a study but it is pretty well accepted that being obese increases your risk of type 2 diabetes. The fact that if you create a calorie deficit you will lose weight/body fat and if you don't you will increase weight/body fat is simple yet there is a diet industry built on fads and a bunch of over educated people with too many degrees in non physical science fields pushing their ideals so they can make money.</comment></comment></comment>


The dirty secret behind Ben Shapiro's extraordinary success on Facebook - <AUTHOR> https://popular.info/p/the-dirty-secret-behind-ben-shapiros <comment><USER2> Facebook could have stopped this but they are spineless and greedy.</comment>


Berkshire Hathaway 2010 - <AUTHOR> http://billflagg.blogspot.com/2010/05/berkshire-hathaway-2010.html <comment><USER2> 66\. High speed rail service in US not economically feasible when compared with auto and air travel

\--

Sure, with current safety standards for trains and with the way that track maintenance is treated (as opposed to road maintenance).

When you get a clean bullet train (that isn't overweight because of excessive regulations) people will stop driving as much between cities.

<comment><USER3> I would love to see the comparative analysis to see the factors taken into account to conclude that high speed rail not economically competitive with auto/air.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> There are some good points here, but that shorthand they use makes a lot of the post a guessing game. If you wrote this, it might be really great if you fleshed it out so that other people could understand it easily.

<comment><AUTHOR> Sorry, I didn't write the blog post, I just submitted it here.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I love reading the bh annual report. I do not love reading some comparatively ham fisted summary of it. Boo.</comment>