Ask YC:  CSS Frameworks - <AUTHOR> I'm sure some of you out there are using one of the many CSS frameworks available out there.  I'm considering plunging into these but wanted to see if anyone here had anything to say about any of them or could recommend one...strengths, weaknesses, etc.<p>They seem like a great idea but I'd like to hear the thoughts of some people that have used them. <comment><USER2> Blueprint - <http://code.google.com/p/blueprintcss/>

We are using this on my startup, so far it has a very good layout system. It is very flexible and configurable for generating unique layouts.

<comment><USER3> I used Blueprint a long time ago, one of the earliest versions, and had a lot of trouble with it. Like any abstraction it's only flexible to a point and I feel like CSS being a presentation language means that that flexibility is hindered and your ability to recover weakened as compared to frameworks in turing complete languages.

That being said I haven't used Blueprint in a long time and I've used CSS longer than I've used any language besides HTML. I'm probably not so much in the intended audience.

<comment><USER4> Oops... Wanted to vote you up not down...sorry. Can two people do me the honour of restoring my intent?

Thanks.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I found that YUI Grids CSS to be very easy to use and extremely robust. Honestly, the fact that they do graded browser support is the main reason I use them.

</comment><comment><USER6> What is the big deal about the grid layout anyway? If you aren't trying to design a site that has ultra-dense-content on every page like nytimes.com, what's the point? I mean, does everyone have to jock Khoi Vinh so hard? For most sites that aren't so heavy in content, floating content smartly and giving text ample breathing room is usually a sufficient starting point.

The grid system reminds me of Ansel Adams' zone system for photography... it's good for teaching students about the elements of visual balance, but ultimately it's a pedagogical scaffold. IMO when the grid system and the zone system become a heavily used crutch for your design and art, that's when what is created tends toward stodgy and boring.

<comment><USER7> In the context of web-based startups, you can assume 99% of the time content will dictate the design, and that the site will grow in content rather quickly. That said, the grid is one of the most modular structures for plugging in content without disrupting or rebuilding the entire flow.

Why re-invent the wheel? The grid concept is universal, and certainly helps during planning for prioritizing real estate and architecting your information properly.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I've used YUI more than once. It's pretty elaborate but for my purposes, I've just used their wizard (<http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/grids/builder/>) to set up the grid the way I wanted it and it's never given me any trouble. Plus, it works across pretty much across all browsers.

</comment><comment><USER9> I've used Blueprint and YUI grids. Both are ace.

In my current project I actually switched from blueprint to YUI, only because I waned a 100% fluid layout - which isn't available in Blueprint.

I was initially concerned by the claims that YUI litters your code with extraneous div tags; I can now say with confidence that these claims are over exaggerated.

The YUI classes can be applied to any block level element, not just divs.

So, both are good - both are easy, give them a try. My vote would be for YUI, but only just.

Also, 960.gs is the new kid on the block.

</comment><comment><USER10> <http://960.gs/> is another one. The best thing about both frameworks is the reset stylesheet.

</comment><comment><USER11> Check this out: <http://matthewjamestaylor.com/blog/perfect-3-column.htm>

</comment><comment><USER12> I use the YUI CSS framework(not just grids). I've also used blueprint as an experiment.

Frankly, i am no longer interested in writing my own css for layout when something like YUI grids exists. Unless there's something really special. Cross browser css is a PITA without one of those.

I highly recommend it.</comment>


Startup School Advisor Track: You Are In - <AUTHOR> Can anyone add any information on what the "Advisor Track" is for Startup School? I was just accepted, but I only see Founder Track in past applications, so not sure what Advisor Track means or the differenct if any.<p>Thanks! <comment><USER2> Hi everyone, after all this, we believe the right thing to do is to accept everyone into Startup School, so we're going to find a way to make this work. More info here: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17806459](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17806459)

<comment><USER3> I got a rejected email first and then I got the accepted email with an apology. So I am assuming I was among the originally accepted startups, now since everyone is going to be accepted, the originally accepted startups will have a disadvantage and will we still get an advisor? The thing to rejoice is being accepted out of a pool of competition but now since everyone is accepted, its just something usual.

<comment><USER4> I think the originally accepted companies will have an advisor in addition to other resources, whereas other companies will have access to everything except an advisor. Src: Their latest email.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> My cofounder and I were cheers-ing about our acceptance an hour ago and now we're texting about this y-combinator screw-up--we're not accepted after all!

For all the other founders and teams who had that momentary confidence of outside reenforcement -- remember how unstoppable and brave you felt in that moment! That glow doesn't have to go away with a retraction email. Hold onto the feeling. Go make great things, go make a difference.

I became a developer after spending odd hours trolling Hnews and finding learn to code tutorials; I watched all of the previous Startup School videos on my own time; and despite the discord that can sometimes occur on this platform, I really looked up to Ycombinator.

While this is a feelings setback, I'd like to just say -- I wouldn't be where I am in my career without the Hacker News community that got my started on my way. So I think what I'd like to focus on tonight (while I nurse my hurt pride) is thanking everyone here who comments and submits links and reaches out and spreads the openness and community that drew me to software in the first place.

People who run things will make lots of mistakes; communities will make lots of mistakes, too; but if we just keep talking, we'll stay moving in the right direction.

Thanks to all the Ycombinator commenters here responding to the very justified hurt and embarrassment being shared here. Cheers to a tomorrow full of possibilities.

<comment><USER6> _For all the other founders and teams who had that momentary confidence of outside reenforcement -- remember how unstoppable and brave you felt in that moment! That glow doesn 't have to go away with a retraction email._

Exactly. It doesn't make two fucks what YC thinks of you, your company, or anything else. Just go win without them. Muster up a little outrage if that sort of thing helps you, be pissed for 30 minutes or so, then buckle down and start writing code, or whatever you need to do to move forward.

As a wise man once said:

 _Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain 't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place, and I don't care how tough you are, it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward; how much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done! Now if you know what you're worth, then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits, and not pointing fingers saying you ain't where you wanna be because of him, or her, or anybody._

<comment><USER5> Yes, a thousand times yes! Life is so hard for so many; that's exactly what we're working for, why we want to make a difference!

And if I may add to your excellent quote, as Leslie Knope said, "This thing we call failure is not the falling down, it's the staying down."

Thank you mindcrime, we'll be back at again in the morning!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Mistakes happen, but it should not have taken them over two hours to contact people who'd been celebrating their acceptance.

We got the "you're in!" email, and the whole team was pumped. Having to go back to them hours later to let them down was really hard to do.

The fact that Ycombinator sent the "oops, sorry!" email from a do-not-reply address and basically did nothing to make up for it showed a real lack of respect for the companies that were affected.

Will it make a difference in the long run? Probably not, no one wants to shoot themselves in the foot over what is basically just a disappointment. But it really does lower Ycombinator's brand for a lot of people. Not a great example to set.

<comment><USER8> The "do not reply" was particularly upsetting.

<comment><USER9> And the "accepted to audit" stings super hard. We were accepted and then rejected. I'm a stoic person but this really hurts. We were on a pathway to earning success with help and now we're off again on our own in the wilderness.

<comment><USER10> You're right. That phrase is lame and in this context is salt in the wound.

People at YC are trying to come up with ways to make this at least partly better. If you have an idea, or anyone else has, this thread would be a good place to post it. Or email the team at firstname.lastname@example.com.

<comment><USER9> Don't think there's much that would help short of actual help like startup school provides.

Giving us a chance to shine is what gave us so much hope. For those 90 minutes anyway.

I get that it wasn't malicious but knowing this doesn't really change anything for us. Thanks.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Guys - we are deeply sorry for this screw-up. I know we got people's hopes up only to let you down, and I feel terrible about it.

While it doesn't excuse our mistake, for what it's worth, Startup School makes the classes and all the materials available online to everyone. So even if you didn't get accepted to the advisor track, we hope you will follow along, watch the videos, and find the material useful.

My apologies on behalf of everyone at YC for letting you down. We're still trying to figure out exactly what happened, and make sure nothing like it happens again.

<comment><USER7> Mistakes happen. Waiting two hours to tell people, then doing so from a do- not-reply address, however, is a poor way to handle them.

If we make a mistake like this as a company, we at least try to make up for it in some way, and make our users feel valued.

<comment><USER4> The 'apologies' email was another bulk no-reply message. Maybe they misapologised, too.

<comment><USER12> /r/oopsdidntmeantodidntmeantooops

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> We feel awful about this and we're working on a solution. We'll have more to share in the next 24 hours, hopefully sooner.

Edit: ok, here's what we've got: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17806459](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17806459).

<comment><USER13> Update: we will have something to share tonight, and I think people will be pretty happy :)

<comment><USER14> Thank you so much!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I was just accepted, and then rejected.

Felt like shit.

You don't need a "startup school" or a YC acceptance to be successful.

This application allowed me to type like 45 words about my company, and that was it. I imagine they had thousands of applicants.

Once a week with an advisor that's working with 25 other companies? Startup School definitely won't be the thing that moves the needle for your project.

Pessimistically, I see this more as a feeder for YC. This "software glitch" is somewhat telling of the care they are putting into this. In other words, "It's a numbers game".

Keep putting in work. We don't need $120K for 7% in funding for "connections" to get our products off the ground anymore. We don't need this. We can bootstrap.

<comment><USER16> Sorry about that. I had a different experience. First rejected and then accepted. Seems like one of the boolean flags was messed up.

<comment><USER17> Same here. I was rejected then accepted

<comment><USER18> Same here. read the rejection letter and went straight to bed and woke up to the acceptance email. I'm sure the initial 4k accepted all had the "reject" email.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> So much love for everyone who received an "accepted" email in error. Don't let it get you down.

I just got rejected with [https://dependabot.com](https://dependabot.com) despite $6k MRR and 2,000 active users. I'm sure there are lots of other great companies in the same situation - let's keep building great things.

<comment><USER20> Thank you for that. The worst part though is the part where they say "You got accepted to audit the course" .... doesn't everyone get accepted to audit it?

<comment><USER11> They do. And I apologize for the wording - it was not intended to be misleading.

<comment><USER21> mistakes happen, but great to see you totally owning it up!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> I'm not upset with YC.

The program is free after all.

So I'm not a paying customer.

And I am incredibly grateful to YC for everything they do for the startup community.

But it is absolutely gutting to get the thumbs up, tell the team, and then get the thumbs down.

I can handle it, but my team is demoralised.

Time to find something to boost them up.

<comment><USER11> I appreciate your understanding, but just because it's a free program doesn't give us an excuse to hurt people's feelings. I hope you find something to boost your team soon.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> Here's what I'd do if I were YC, especially having seen in this thread and on Twitter a bunch of seemingly promising startups that were rejected from Startup School:

Add a second chance--not just for those who received an incorrect email today, but for everyone who was rejected but fully audits the program. Toward the end of the ten weeks, allow startups auditing the course to submit a progress report or a second application, with some of those candidates--perhaps those that have shown the most growth over the course of the program?--accepted to participate in a later 10-week advisory program like the one Startup School offers on the advisory track. (I'm sure a chance at $10k would be appreciated as well.)

That would make Startup School a more appealing proposition for those who were not accepted, relieve some of the sting for those who are upset today, and to some extent correct for the fact that the selection process is inherently imperfect. From YC's perspective, it would increase participation in Startup School without requiring huge numbers of new advisors; you'd have 10 weeks to find a couple of new advisors for a small batch of accepted second-chancers, or perhaps some of the first-run advisors would be willing to commit to a second round. Plus this would give YC another opportunity to get in early with some of the most promising startups they rejected today.

(I think giving hope to people who were misinformed today would help alleviate some of the PR problems YC is surely going to face, but I'd add this as a permanent feature of Startup School anyway.)

</comment><comment><USER24> I hope yours was not sent by mistake because I just got another email saying my application wasnt actually accepted. Which I understand because I was surprised to be accepted since our demo is passport protected and they could not have seen what is it that we have built so far.

</comment><comment><USER10> Oh you guys, what a painful fuckup. I'm so sorry. More apologies coming. (Edit: and hopefully a fix, as well.)

</comment><comment><USER25> I received two emails.

1\. Class Begins Next Week!

> Thank you for applying to Startup School Online. We're sorry to say that > your startup was not selected for the upcoming Advisor track....

What I understood is that I was not selected. But then 1:30 minutes later I got a second email.

2\. Your Company was ACCEPTED: Startup School Advisor Track

> Thank you for applying to Startup School Online. Your application looked > promising and we would like to invite you to the Advisor track!

So I am accepted? I see others have the opposite happen so I am confused.

When I click on the link and log in, it shows:

> Thank you for applying to Startup School!

> We will let you know whether you're accepted by August 20th, 2018.

 _Update:_

The website has updated to show that I have been accepted. Good luck to those who haven't received an update yet.

<comment><USER26> Yeah, I got the same, I'm going to let things settle down over the next few hours and keep coding, I'm wondering if there is another rejection on its way. :)

<comment><USER12> I see this in a monty python-esque tone:

 __ _" we are happy to inform you that we are very sorry to inform you of our previous information that you were accepted to starupschool, when that was sadly, an error on the part of our rejection system falsely telling you that you were accepted, so I am here to tell you that sadly, you were not accepted by our rejection system and your rejection has summarily been rejected by our acceptance department of rejected rejections and sent to the appropriate signatories for sign-off on your sign-up down-below._ __

 __ _See you next tuesday should this actually be a rejection of your rejection and an ackknowledgement of your acceptance, whichever may come first "_ __

<comment><USER26> Man, I hope you're start-up has something to do with comedy, that was awesome!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Yeah, this was totally not cool. I much like most of you was not expecting to get accepted, I basically applied for the hell of it. None the less, it was quite a let down to receive that second email. Especially after telling a few family and friends. Kind of sucks, but hey it was an accident all we can do is move past it.

<comment><USER11> You're right - it was extremely not cool. We're very sorry.

<comment><USER27> Hey, please, in the good name of YC, explain this on twitter. Some people are kinda lost over there. I got an invite as participant and got a reply saying I am not an advisor (but nothing about participating)

<comment><USER11> Yes - we're replying to all the twitter threads right now.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> martin-adams We just got the acceptance and apology email. I'm not going to get upset about it. But I'll float this idea, for anyone who didn't get accepted, would you be interested in a discord/Slack/whatever and share feedback of each other's progress?

The thing I will miss most is the weekly focus to deliver some progress. No reason that can't happen in a non-official capacity. DM me on Twitter if you're interested: [https://twitter.com/Martin_Adams](https://twitter.com/Martin_Adams)

<comment><USER28> Cool idea Martin, thinking the same. I know some founders who may be interested in this. Feel free to email me at:

firstname.lastname@example.com

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> I'm here because of the same reason -- looks like I'm not alone. I've had a YC advisor for about 1.5 hours, shared good news with people around, and now I'm going to tell everyone it was a fake news. How many people received this email? IMO all the people who got the 1st acceptance e-mail should get in. If not now, then in the next cohort.

<comment><USER30> I'm willing to bet everyone that applied got the email.

<comment><USER29> It's like two visa lotteries I applied two: I wasn't selected in either of them, but I knew people who were, and then this happened: [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-visa-mistake- idUSTRE7...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-visa-mistake- idUSTRE74C44C20110513)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Accepted.

Told my team.

We celebrated.

Then received apology/rejection.

Honestly, while it would be a low probability of us getting into the YC Batch, we thought we were high probability of getting into online startup school.

We have an active MVP for 2 months, a Fortune 500 enterprise customer, and a solid market opportunity using previously validated use cases.

We thought we were a really good fit for this program.

I'm tempted to email to ask them to check again.

One error could be two?

Sigh.

<comment><USER11> I'm very sorry to say that the second email was correct. But you can email us at firstname.lastname@example.com to confirm.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> You'd expect this from other accelerators, everyone holds YC to higher standards.

I don't think it's wrong to expect better in this instance. In the age of social media news travels fast. I'd received congratulatory messages from several YC alum within 10 minutes of the first email.

That's life.

</comment><comment><USER32> I got it too. Went for a nice long walk and made great plans about taking over the world! Came back and saw the "sorry" email. Crushing!

But what to do. That's life! We all can use this as motivation!

And let's stop with the blame/reputation stuff - it was a mistake and they apologized. Not like YOU never made any mistakes!

</comment><comment><USER33> Startup school emails are confusing.

First I received a rejection email than acceptance email - I would have rejoiced - but the 'Get Started' Link goes to 'We will let you know by August 20th' page.

<comment><USER34> Same boat. I imagine there's still some data to fix on their end.

<comment><USER11> This should be fixed now.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> I was initially accepted and then not. I've started a couple of companies, exited 1 and my second is doing well (vc funded and growing) if there is one thing I know is that events "like" these happen all of the time to startups. 1 minute you're flying high and the next you're 6 feet under :) How you react to these moments define you and decrease or increase the chance of success for your startup. Go to work!

</comment><comment><USER6> For everybody affected by this, now might be a good time to (re) read pg's famous "How to Not Die" essay:

[http://www.paulgraham.com/die.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/die.html)

A great quote from the essay:

 _Startups rarely die in mid keystroke. So keep typing!_

</comment><comment><USER36> We were also accepted and then rejected. Doesn't exactly instill confidence.

<comment><USER11> You're right. We're going to have to work extremely hard to regain people's confidence.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> I knew it was a little premature to spend the $10k

<comment><USER38> $10K? There'll be no much money left after you live in the bay area for 10 weeks

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> From believing we got the first break we've had in years of struggle to being crushed.

Will it stop us from keeping going? It shouldn't but it might be enough of a blow to slow us down and depress our chances.

I already told people. I scheduled PTO at work to focus. I was on cloud nine and now in the deep dumps.

<comment><USER11> I'm so sorry for the completely unnecessary emotional rollercoaster we sent you on. There's really no excuse.

Having said that, there's no reason why this should keep you from working on your company. I hope you'll decide to give it a shot anyway.

<comment><USER28> Jarred, perhaps this can be a small help. I organised a group of startup school 2017 alumni in London to do the course together, so we have a large number of 'advisor track' graduates from last year in our community. Been in contact to explain the problems you guys are having, a number of them have said they can do weekly office hours style sessions. For us, the structure of checking in and having a group that you're accountable to is a huge part of the value in having an advisor. Perhaps this 'advisor lite' option can help and offer these founders support at a time when they need it?

<comment><USER39> Great idea! Thank you. I'm in London and really hope YC could offer this option.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> Would anyone be interested in starting a group for rejected apps? I think we could all use this mishap as a motivational boost.

<comment><USER41> can we start a slack channel and Audit as a group? co-advise each other. we can call it

"the Slacker Start Up school for Start Ups that Can't Read Good and Want to Do Other Stuff Good Too"

<comment><USER42> Created a slack group: [https://join.slack.com/t/startupschool- rejects/shared_invite...](https://join.slack.com/t/startupschool- rejects/shared_invite/enQtNDE5NTM5ODUxNjY1LTIxOGNhMDA3NGI0NjdlNjU5MWU1MWYxYjc5OTNmN2RjMDRmNmIwM2EyYmU3NjllZGZhOWE0ZWEyZDA1Y2Q3MDg)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> if getting funded on demo day is like getting drafted to the NBA, applying to startup school was like trying out for JV team.

is being told we got accepted to audit something like being invited to watch the game from outside the stadium using binoculars as long as we promise to keep the cheering to a quiet roar?

</comment><comment><USER44> Whelp, what a mess. Every time I tell my self not to apply to these things but then it's like Godfather 3. But wait, this time it was different!! Oh, wait. Nope. Same result. Only this time it feels much much worse. FUBAR.

<comment><USER11> Yes, FUBAR is an apt description....

<comment><USER45> As long as it isn't SNAFU (situation normal -- all fouled up), you should be okay.

Eventually.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> So same here. Its a bit of a disappointment but mistakes happen lets move on. As a solo founder who is not surrounded by a startup ecosystem, what I was most keen on was the group feedback, discussions and I guess some external accountability. Would any others here who have been put into the audit group, be keen to try this in another way? Facebook or hangouts groups? Open to ideas.

<comment><USER8> I'm in. Also solo here.

<comment><USER27> Let's get over Discord: [https://discord.gg/36jp8H](https://discord.gg/36jp8H)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> Getting "accepted" and then rejected made me finally realize how badly I want to try my hand at creating my product idea and starting a start up. So thanks YC for the bug, see you at YC W19 applications.

<comment><USER11> I am very glad you want to apply for W19!

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> Startup school's valuable first lesson in customer communication and PR is right here. Well, software screwed up the experience and crushed the expectations of so many, including me. Moving on :)...

<comment><USER11> You're right - it was a huge lesson for us that we need to have way better protections in place to prevent something like this from happening.

<comment><USER48> Acknowledge the effort you're taking to correct this snafu.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER49> having been in a startup for over a decade (i've since exited), i can tell you that this is something that any team should take on the nose and accept. highs are very high and lows are very low. mistakes happen, and you will make them too. big ones. live as a team, die as a team. stop bitching and get back to work.

[EDIT] ...drink the celebration beers anyways.

</comment><comment><USER50> Grrr.. rejection email after 2 hrs! Wish I got the email before I let my husband know.

</comment><comment><USER51> YC is certainly doing their best to provide resources to the overall entrepreneur community. While it can be emotionally upsetting to be dealt the hands presented - consider it as set-back that entrepreneur face on a daily basis - It is not uncommon to be dealt rejections and be disappointed by mistakes of others, the key is to adapt accordingly and move on. (Just ask any entrepreneurs who try to sell their projects, get a verbal confirmation, but in the end the "budget" fell through. In this case, what we asked for is free to begin with.)

We are all talented. We do not need YC validation / school acceptance to prove that we are talented. Build your application and let the metrics speak for itself. Turn your frustration into energy and motivation. Learn from the experience and move on , good luck implementing everyone.

</comment><comment><USER52> I just want to say we are really sorry for this error. This is not the standard we hold ourselves to at YC. I personally apologize to the companies that were both rejected and accepted. Trust that this provides us with even more motivation to make sure that Startup School is great for all participants.

<comment><USER44> It's ok, we forgive you. Oh wait, due to an error we meant to say actually we don't forgive you.

</comment></comment><comment><USER53> See: [https://www.startupschool.org/about](https://www.startupschool.org/about)

In addition to having full access to all the lectures and class office hours, you will also:

\- Be assigned an advisor and join their group of companies. Advisors are members of the YC alumni network.

\- Have virtual advisory sessions, in the form of Group Office Hours, every week via online video.

\- Have access to a community of international founders through the Startup School forum.

\- Be responsible for updating your Advisor on your progress once a week.

\- You must submit at least 9 out of your 10 weekly updates and attend 9 out of 10 group office hour sessions.

\- Upon successful completion, you will receive a certificate of completion and the opportunity to share what you're working on with the public.

\- 100 startups that complete the course will be chosen to receive $10K in equity-free funding.

<comment><USER24> so how many companies are actually accepted into the course?

<comment><USER53> Not sure the number was specified, but seems like >100

Since 100 will be chosen to receive the 10,000$

<comment><USER54> But only 25 were accepted to the "Advisor" track, and there seems to be only one set of reject/accept emails being sent out. It seems to me there are only 25 accepted for advising, but maybe even auditing companies are eligible for the $10k?

<comment><USER55> My reading of the acceptance email is that it's 25 companies _per advisor_ and that there's probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 advisors, if last year's numbers are any indication. So anyone accepted at this point still only has around 4% chance of getting the $10k. But the advice and lectures should still be valuable for everyone who doesn't get the money.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER56> I got the same email. Accepted then apologies. I'm not sure what the audit school is? I'm so confused

<comment><USER57> "Audit school" is just watching the lectures online.

<comment><USER20> Doesn't everyone who applied get to audit the course .... ?

<comment><USER57> That's my understanding too

<comment><USER20> So basically we've just been told that we got accepted into Community College.

<comment><USER58> Worse! Community college has acceptance criteria, auditing has none.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER59> I find it interesting how badly this has affected some people. It seems that a large majority are upset from gloating about it in on their "networks". Perhaps this is a lesson that you shouldn't need to rely on YC to succeed.

</comment><comment><USER60> Officially the best day of my life. - We almost had a minor heart attack as we received an email stating that we were not accepted. But we are in ....it was a Y-Com email trigger problem. (honest mistake)

<comment><USER42> Congrats! Can you share your idea and background?

<comment><USER60> We are making an app where you can instantly book experiential homestays for travellers.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER58> Accepted, then rejected but "accepted into Audit course", is this a joke?!

</comment><comment><USER61> WTF? A rollercoaster for sure. You're in! You're out! Boooo!

</comment><comment><USER62> Ha such a roller coaster of emotions for us over at [https://vrooms.tv](https://vrooms.tv)

Excited, confused, super let down, then came here to see we weren't alone.

<comment><USER11> Yes. Startups are an emotional rollercoaster, but YC is supposed to help with that, not make it worse. We're so sorry that we did the wrong thing today.

<comment><USER26> YC is supposed to help with the rollercoaster? I thought you're just helping to make it go faster! :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER63> in and then out just like the other posters in this thread - very NOT HAPPY w/ YC today.

</comment><comment><USER64> I received the following second email

"We are deeply sorry, but an error occurred in the software that triggers acceptance emails and you were actually supposed to receive the email below accepting you into the Startup School Advisor Track."

But now I want to be super sure ... ¿Are We In? If I login into the StartupSchool page , I don´t see anything yet.

<comment><USER65> Iikewise... reading this thread is keeping my excitement at bay. Hopefully we get a more concrete confirmation.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I was also accepted and rejected. Very upset and frustrated.

<comment><USER11> That's completely fair - and we're so sorry that our mistake left you feeling that way.

</comment></comment><comment><USER66> Rollercoaster of emotions. First email came in while I was at dinner with my super nosy girlfriend and I was dejected. Didn't even take my meal well.

Then acceptance email. Good thing I had a long list of things to achieve before I went public with rwjwction/acceptance. I am happy to be accepted. For all those rejected, I have applied to YC 6 times since 2012 or 2013 I think. All rejects. One business was adapted by government (it wasn't going to be super profitable, but was really key to my government ops plus led to a scholarship at MIT). Two startups floundered but led me to my current startup(pivot after pivot supported by a somewhat sufficient consultancy).

All in all continue executing. That's what important.

<comment><USER67> Keep going. Persistence is everything. YC isn't the endgame, but a step along the way to building a great business.

</comment></comment><comment><USER68> Obviously this situation is very confusing. Seems like an honest mistake. On the plus side, really love the sense of community this has created. Best of luck to those moving forward. Whether accepted or auditing this will be a huge learning opportunity.

</comment><comment><USER69> #startupschool

Let me guess. That would be a hack to engage a list of post-rejection uninterested users.

<comment><USER27> I really think it was an honest mistake, especially because it was an email asking to be an advisor.

</comment></comment><comment><USER70> I received an emailed that said I wasn't in then one said sorry you did get in. Is this accurate?

Sorry to everyone who received the opposite emails. If you believe in your vision, keep focused on serving your customers and growing your business.

<comment><USER11> Yes, the second email is accurate.

</comment></comment><comment><USER71> Fixed: [https://blog.ycombinator.com/startup-school-every-company- th...](https://blog.ycombinator.com/startup-school-every-company-that-applied- is-now-accepted/)

</comment><comment><USER72> Got the rejected email then was accepted. [https://www.startupschool.org/courses/2](https://www.startupschool.org/courses/2) doesn't seem to fully confirm I am in - just says:

        Thank you for applying to Startup School!
        The course will start on August 28th, 2018

        Share with fellow entrepreneurial friends.

        Course videos will be available soon after filming has ended. In the meantime, you can check our library of Startup Material.

<comment><USER34> I am in the same boat, and there are a few others who have commented similarly. My guess is that there's just a bit of repair that needs to be done on YCs side.

</comment></comment><comment><USER73> Applied for the program and got acceptance -> shared with team -> rejection -> shared with team.

And it didn't really bother me much.

Can understand that getting into the program can be a great thing. But these things are expected. With strong conviction on the idea small hickups doesn't seem to have any impact.

BTW, for those applied to this program should consider applyin g for [https://unusual.vc/academy/](https://unusual.vc/academy/). They invest 100k in convertible notes.

</comment><comment><USER74> I'm still confused. I got rejected and then accepted. I'm sure it's a fuck up but I urge YC to send a mail again to shed some clarity to those are seriously affected by this.

<comment><USER11> The second email is the correct one.

<comment><USER74> Thanks snowmaker. But if If my company is selected, I should see some related content right? I'm still seeing the message we will let you know by 20th August.

<comment><USER74> Thank you, i'm all excited about the journey now!!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER75> I guess this is more motivation to work on my actual YC application :)

<comment><USER6> I look at it as motivation to succeed with or without them, so I can give them all the finger and big hearty (but good-natured) "Fuck You" in a couple of years. _shrug_

</comment></comment><comment><USER76> I just got the acceptance error email, I feel pretty let down.

I even woke up early (AEST) to check emails and was wonderfully surprised when I got the first email at 6.30am. Not a great start to the day.

</comment><comment><USER38> I received the 'accepted' one in the midnight, and We celebrated the whole 15 minutes, bought a round ticket as well, I was thinking about book a room on Airbnb, but we still have work to do. I got the 'sorry' one just before I shutdown my laptop, I don't know how to tell my friends, it'll take 2 or days to forget it. We're absolutely gonna keep going. There was a mistake, we were not accepted by Startup School, that's all I need to say. Everyone will be fine.

</comment><comment><USER77> The first email I received was

Thank you for applying to Startup School Online. We're sorry to say that your startup was not selected for the upcoming Advisor track.

I then received a second email

We are deeply sorry, but an error occurred in the software that triggers acceptance emails and you were actually supposed to receive the email below accepting you into the Startup School Advisor Track.

It seems like this is the opposite of what most other have experienced according to the comments. I guess regardless, everyone is still in?

</comment><comment><USER78> I got the same and this is not cool

<comment><USER10> You're right. It was very far from cool.

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> Hi everyone, I have an idea, why we just live YC along for a few hours, let them do what they need to do and waiting for the result. If they have to answer almost same questions in here or on twitter, they'll have fewer people to do the 'update', let's just wait and talking to each other.

Here is the key info: 'Update: we will have something to share tonight, and I think people will be pretty happy :)'

</comment><comment><USER58> The emotional roller coaster ended at confusion & frustration at reading "accepted to audit", is this a joke?! What's there to be accepted to audit?!

<comment><USER11> I'm very sorry to say it is not a joke - it was a very serious mistake.

<comment><USER73> Are we(in audit) eligible for 10k grant?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> For those who didn't get in but would still like to join a slack group of founders: [https://join.slack.com/t/startupschool- rejects/shared_invite...](https://join.slack.com/t/startupschool- rejects/shared_invite/enQtNDE5NTM5ODUxNjY1LTIxOGNhMDA3NGI0NjdlNjU5MWU1MWYxYjc5OTNmN2RjMDRmNmIwM2EyYmU3NjllZGZhOWE0ZWEyZDA1Y2Q3MDg)

</comment><comment><USER79> Guys, maybe it will be reasonable to send emails with text like "check out your acceptance thru the following link"? Doing this you will track openings and if smth is going wrong, you will work only with guys that saw the wrong info. And what about the last your decision: it will be really hard for you, but it's the only one way to fix everything. So, good luck to you with this and thank you!

</comment><comment><USER80> Hey I was like really cool there for an hour or two :)

<comment><USER81> Lol, likewise, I didn't share it fortunately. I was busy looking through the FAQ and what to expect and looking through my calendar to figure out scheduling. Oh well, ish happens, at least they will let us audit. As usually, those of us rejected can self organize in groups of 4-5 for a mastermind group as a substitute for the advisory track.

</comment></comment><comment><USER69> I will never believe this. It is not by mistake.

<comment><USER11> Hard to imagine a reason we would screw something up so badly intentionally....

</comment></comment><comment><USER82> I'm glad I only told one person, because it is pretty heartbreaking to get un- accepted. But I get it- software glitches make mistakes, people make mistakes, companies make mistakes. If something THIS small was going to deter me, maybe I should just give up and go get a regular job. But that's not gonna happen! Let's do this!

</comment><comment><USER83> I got an email that we were rejected, and then two hours later that we were ACCEPTED to the Advisor Track... basically the other way around to what most people has commented in this thread... but still waiting for tomorrow to find out if there is any clarification to this. When I login I do not see the famous Auditor Track...

<comment><USER77> Likewise... I have also heard that others ONLY got the acceptance email. Seems like something went wildly wrong.

</comment></comment><comment><USER84> Got in shared the news with everyone, Got out waiting hoping the second email is an error, before letting the team know.

</comment><comment><USER85> We've got a rejection email and then a couple of hours later a follow up email saying that there was an error and we were accepted! Super stoked about this opportunity. If anyone is interested, we're here - [https://skillmint.com](https://skillmint.com)

<comment><USER60> We got a rejection mail too and then an acceptance email...hope this is legit now and no more changes.

</comment></comment><comment><USER73> Are we(in audit track) eligible for 10k grant?

P.S.: If there teams in this situation, upvote so that someone from YC may answer it.

<comment><USER8> No, it's only the people accepted into the program. The audit track is just a fancy way of saying you didn't get picked.

</comment></comment><comment><USER86> First email, "you are in! ",second email "ups, actually, you are not". Crushing...

</comment><comment><USER87> Cannot describe how shitty it felt to tell everyone I told that I actually didn't get accepted.

<comment><USER87> I would also like to add how genuinely excited I was, I am going through a difficult time right now and this felt like I was actually going to turn things around. Sure this was bad for everyone but really just terrible timing for me.

<comment><USER5> Hey Proofread, if you decide to audit the course and want to do remote hangouts to discuss, my (also accepted then rejected) cofounder and I will be following along and would love the company!

I applaud your honesty about how things like this can really lift you up and knock you down. Hang in there, we're with you.

<comment><USER87> Sounds good, I will reach back out to you. Thanks!

<comment><USER5> Wonderful! I look forward to it!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Got the same, was pretty upset after also sharing it with the team and with others...

Lame.

So what exactly is "audit track"?

<comment><USER11> The audit track has the course materials - all the lectures and other notes. If you follow along, you can keep on the same timeline and learn about startups.

<comment><USER73> Are we(in audit) eligible for 10k grant?

<comment><USER29> Also trying to understand this, because it's unclear how "audit path" differs from: "not applied, will just watch stuff on YouTube"

<comment><USER8> It doesn't differ. They just named it the audit path so you don't feel as bad about not getting in.

<comment><USER29> Yup. That's what I believed too.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER88> How about we start our own accelerator by auditing their course? Nothing stops if we are motivated.

<comment><USER27> I'm not actually into building an accelerator, YC does a great job, but I sure think we could teach each other something and get to know our own projects.

I put up a Discord Server, if anyone wants to talk and support each other: [https://discord.gg/36jp8H](https://discord.gg/36jp8H)

</comment></comment><comment><USER89> Tough moments build resilience.

Mistakes happen, rejections happen, failures happen.

Keep your vision laser-focussed and go turn something people want into something people love.

<3 from the accepted/rejected [http://www.joinluma.com](http://www.joinluma.com) crew.

</comment><comment><USER90> I got an email 2 hours ago saying that I didn't get in, then just one one a few minutes ago saying that I was in the advisor track? Sounds great... but is the system sending correct emails for round 2?

Don't want to get my hopes up.

<comment><USER11> The second email is the correct one - if you're unsure, email email@example.com

</comment></comment><comment><USER91> Hi Guys, I created a slack channel to connect all interested entrepreneurs whether accepted or not. Here is the link: [https://bit.ly/2LaSxtH](https://bit.ly/2LaSxtH)

Spread the word!

</comment><comment><USER92> What does it mean if I received a rejection email first and then an acceptance to the Advisor track? Is there still a Founder track that I didn't get into or am I about to receive a rejection email? I'm confused.

</comment><comment><USER93> Honestly, I'm pretty graceful even though I didn't get in the advisor track, but accepted of audit track. What's really matter is that we can all get something from the free course while others can't.

</comment><comment><USER94> I just got Steve Harvey'd

<comment><USER55> Or Beatty-Dunaway'd

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> They need to do something to make it right, they impacted relationships and businesses in a real way. They have the power to make it right in some way, it's a morale test to see if they will. I emailed them.

</comment><comment><USER95> Well, I got mine then requested to attend a lecture in person and after about 5 mins I get the email saying "nah nah" I was thinking I shouldn't have asked to attend the lecture if they'd kick me out for that

</comment><comment><USER96> Fortunately I was busy coding so I saw the two emails at the same time. Disappointing, but I was always planning on making this successful on my own. I'll still audit the course to see what I can learn.

</comment><comment><USER97> Started an open chat to follow Startup School—will post videos, etc. [https://chat.dog/startup-school](https://chat.dog/startup-school)

<comment><USER45> If folks just want to talk at each other:

Startup school rejects

[https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!forum/startup-school- rej...](https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!forum/startup-school-rejects)

(It's the mobile link. I'm failing to find the link I want.)

I have no affiliation with YC.

</comment></comment><comment><USER98> I got a rejection email first, then an acceptance email to the advisor track - what does this mean for me? Am I a part of the proper course or am I just accepted because of the mistake?

</comment><comment><USER99> Considering that it's easier to get into Startup School than the regular YC batch, should founders that were rejected interpret that as a signal that they'll likely not get into YC?

</comment><comment><USER34> Snowmaker/any other YC employee: how many cohorts are there?

</comment><comment><USER100> Disappointed... Are all the emails signed by the same people (Geoff and Adora) or does it depend on the cohort you were (incorrectly) assigned to?

<comment><USER29> It doesn't help it came from "noreply" email, so it's hard to clarify anything.

</comment></comment><comment><USER101> So I am confused. I got accepted in advisor track and then now its saying I am accepted for auditor track. So am I in? or am I not?

<comment><USER10> It was a gigantic mistake on our part. We sent out emails that accepted everyone that was rejected and rejected everyone that was accepted. It was a big boolean fuckup and we're deeply sorry.

As for whether you're in or not - stay tuned. People have been working feverishly on this for several hours and an announcement is almost ready.

<comment><USER102> What if I didn't received either a rejection or an acceptance email?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER103> Are both cofounders allowed to attend a startup school lecture in person? Or is it only one seat per company?

</comment><comment><USER104> Was also accepted into the same Track. 25 companies per track it seems, there are probably many cohorts.

</comment><comment><USER105> I only received the acceptance email at 4pm EST. Does it mean i was in the real 25? What a mess...

</comment><comment><USER105> I only got the Acceptance email. Does it mean i was in the real 25?? What a mess now

</comment><comment><USER106> Damn, I shared this with friends and family. Never been so excited...

</comment><comment><USER20> I guess were just a bunch of ... angry nerds. _cue CSI music_

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> And we are like everyone else, not really accepted. Bummer.

</comment><comment><USER107> Not cool at all ...

<comment><USER108> Am I the only one who finds this ironic coming from the top tech incubator in the world?

<comment><USER109> No

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> MR. Y Combinator ....I don't feel so good...

</comment><comment><USER56> Congratulations to everyone who did get in xoxo

</comment><comment><USER110> First rejected, then accepted :)

</comment><comment><USER67> YC - you made the right move

</comment><comment><USER111> This is heart breaking!

</comment><comment><USER112> "We are deeply sorry to have to send this email, but unfortunately an error occurred in the software that triggers acceptance emails. The acceptance email was sent to you even though we are unfortunately not able to include you in the Startup School Advisor Track.

Although you are not in the Advisor Track, you have, in fact, been accepted to audit Startup School and will have access to all of the content just as soon as it is made available.

Again, we regret having made this error and raised your expectations unnecessarily. We hope you continue working on your startup and that Startup School is a huge help."

<comment><USER52> Once again I just wanted to say we are really sorry for this error. This is not the standard we hold ourselves to at YC. I personally apologize to the companies that were both rejected and accepted. Trust that this provides us with even more motivation to make sure that Startup School is great for all participants.

<comment><USER8> Very upsetting. :(</comment></comment></comment>


On Redis master-slave terminology (2018) - <AUTHOR> http://antirez.com/news/122 <comment><USER3> Note that this is from 2018.

I personally totally agree with the author. Anyone who chooses to be offended by words used in a totally different context is doing exactly that - <USER2> to be offended.

If we keep going down this path of endless meaningless virtue signalling, where will we stop? Is the term "black hole" racist too? What about blackout? Etc, etc.

No one really cares about these terms and it they do their opinion shouldn't outweigh the time, effort required to fix it, or the opinions of everyone else.

Supporting this kind of asinine shit is essentially letting big corps like Google get away with doing practically nothing while seeming like the good guys. Stop focusing on the surface level shit and start focusing on the real issues.

<comment><USER4> > Is the term "black hole" racist too?

That has been objected to [1][2][3]. A white county commissioner described a slow office as a black hole for paperwork, a black county commissioner said that was racist and it should be called a white hole, and a black judge asked the first commissioner to apologize for his racist remark. Also, "angel food cake" and "devil's food cake" were also declared racist, apparently, in the same incident [3].

[1] [https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/sometimes-a- bl...](https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/sometimes-a-black-hole- is-just-a-black-hole)

[2] [https://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2008/0723/p09s0...](https://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2008/0723/p09s01-coop.html)

[3] [https://www.npr.org/sections/newsandviews/2008/07/is_black_h...](https://www.npr.org/sections/newsandviews/2008/07/is_black_hole_a_racist_term.html)

<comment><USER5> Perhaps not racist but the origin is quite horrifying

 _According to Hong-Yee Chiu, an astrophysicist at NASA, the Black Hole of Calcutta was the inspiration for the term black hole referring to regions of space-time resulting from the gravitational collapse of very heavy stars. He recalled hearing physicist Robert Dicke in the early 1960s compare such gravitationally collapsed objects to the prison_

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hole_of_Calcutta](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hole_of_Calcutta)

<comment><USER6> Despite the origin, I would guess most people associate the name to the fact that black holes suck up all light (with the color black being the absence of light), as well as how pictures of black holes show the color as black.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> In the meantime, the Slave terminology is on its way out in Redis too.

Here are a few commits: [https://github.com/antirez/redis/search?q=%22slave+removal%2...](https://github.com/antirez/redis/search?q=%22slave+removal%22&type=Commits)

Here's the issue where some of the discussion happened: [https://github.com/antirez/redis/issues/5335](https://github.com/antirez/redis/issues/5335)

<comment><USER8> It's paradoxical that they want these changes merged to "master".

<comment><USER9> Master has multiple meanings, not just slave master. As in mastery, master tape, master craftsman. In git, there are no "slave" branches, so "master" does not evoke slavery.

<comment><USER10> On the contrary, naming of "master" branch in git does seem to derive from master/slave terminology... [https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel- list/2019-May/...](https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel- list/2019-May/msg00066.html)

<comment><USER11> That's hearsay. Bitkeeper uses master/slave for repositories not branches.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I suspect this is one of those topics that at some point, everyone will have just switched terms because it's not worth the hassle to fight these fights over and over again. Kind of a "I'm not wrong, but is it a good use of 20 hours a year to argue about this?"

<comment><USER13> Looks like that's the very point the author is trying to make. We can't give in to the dictatorship of the Small Minority specially when the most intolerant people seem to scream the loudest.

<comment><USER14> It's a bit unclear if you are just trying to express the authors views or your own, but if those are your own views I felt that it warranted a reply.

The concept of "dictatorship of small minority" implies that the only governing principle should be the vote of the majority. But that is a deeply flawed system, if there wasn't any other rule than "majority wins" then all oppression of minorities becomes valid and all abuse where the perpetrators outnumber the victims.

For a system to be fair there must exist more rules than that, for example "respect bodily autonomy" and "no oppression of minorities" and so on. Many of those rules are more fundamental than the "majority wins" rule and more important to uphold.

If those are not your own views: Sorry for the rant.

<comment><USER15> > The concept of "dictatorship of small minority" implies that the only > governing principle should be the vote of the majority.

No, it does not. "I don't want to live under dictator A" does not imply "I want to enslave A" or "I want to live under dictator B", it _only_ implies that I do not want to live under dictator A.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> The project maintainer absolutely has the right to choose not to remove offensive language. Although, I find his position to be unnecessarily defensive. What is he really fighting for? The language is outdated and stems from a practice that is universally shunned. There is work involved in changing the language yet there is no harm in it. People absolutely have the right to be offended. Feeling offended is just that - a feeling. If we don't have a right to experience feelings, then what do we have a right to? And the right to express our feelings with our speech and writing is known as "freedom of speech", which is not a universal right in the world, but it's a popular one. While it's impossible to prevent offending everyone all the time, again, it's outdated language referring to a shunned practice. This is more than a handful of individuals expressing offended feelings based on esoteric personal perspectives. Changing the language would be more welcoming towards people who still deal with the fallout of such a shunned practice. Again, doing so is not a requirement of any kind, and I'm not claiming racism. I'm just claiming a failure to understand, respect, and welcome people who live in a world still mired in the effects of a devastating practice. I would change the language.

<comment><USER17> > The project maintainer absolutely has the right to choose not to remove > offensive language.

What offensive language has been communicated in this case?

> What is he really fighting for?

Wasn't that clearly explained in the post?

> The language is outdated and stems from a practice

Outdated? Has the 'practice' you're referring to dissappeared?

> from a practice that is universally shunned.

What to think of people practicing BDSM? Or bioligists describing insect behaviour? Is their language offensive?

> There is work involved in changing the language yet there is no harm in it.

It is harmful when it deflects from the actual problems we have in our society these days. Just because something is immediately actionable doesn't mean it is effective or even helpful.

> People absolutely have the right to be offended.

Of course people may feel offended, they just shouldn't automatically get additional rights by being offended.

> Changing the language would be more welcoming towards people

I agree with that. But I'm dissapointed that people are content with it. IMO it distracts from more pressing issues that need to be addressed.

<comment><USER16> Nice attempt at deconstrivism.

I will address a few of your points together:

> What offensive language has been communicated in this case? > Outdated? Has > the 'practice' you're referring to dissappeared? > What to think of people > practicing BDSM? Or bioligists describing insect behaviour? Is their > language offensive?

I'm referring, obviously, to the language of "slave and master." The practice of slavery, unfortunately, has not disappeared, but is universally banned and recognized as morally wrong. The use of language based on slavery in computer science was dreampt up long ago, and it's time to rethink it - just as "mongoloid" used to be the official scientific word to refer to people with mental disabilities. I highly doubt you or the author would defend so vigorously the right to keep using that term in software APIs and documentation. It was a silly idea to use the word in the first place, and there's simply no good reason to use it now. As for BDSM and language about insect behavior, that's completely within a different realm, because those topics are not related to the long history of systemic suppression and subjection of an entire class of people

You and other proponents of leaving offensive language intact are blinded by binary thinking - the slippery slope argument. That if one thing is done to address offended people, then something must be done for everyone who is offended, and where does it end? Therefore the slippery slope. That misguided type of thinking supposes that all moral decisions can be made on a set of universally applied rules that will decide what is right and what must be done about it. But the world is gray - not black and white, and no two situations are the same. Judgement is necessary in every situation.

>> What is he really fighting for? > Wasn't that clearly explained in the post? Not really. What was clear from the post was that he didn't want to do it, and he felt he wasn't wrong for not doing it. That doesn't explain why he went through the effort of presumably spending hours to write a lengthy blog post about it. The question then, is why is he fighting so hard against making some code and documentation changes?

And on a related note:

>> Changing the language would be more welcoming towards people > I agree with that. But I'm dissapointed that people are content with it. IMO it distracts from more pressing issues that need to be addressed. I think that actively fighting against changing the language by spending inordinate amounts of time writing blogs about his refusal to change the language is a huge distraction. Just do it or don't do it.

>> There is work involved in changing the language yet there is no harm in it. > It is harmful when it deflects from the actual problems we have in our society these days. Just because something is immediately actionable doesn't mean it is effective or even helpful. And who has determined that is not an actual problem? Or that this is not effective or helpful? You? The white males who run the world?

>> People absolutely have the right to be offended. Of course people may feel offended, they just shouldn't automatically get additional rights by being offended. To which additional rights are you referring?

<comment><USER17> Thanks for your reply, I'll have to give it more thought. I agree with most of it though.

> You and other proponents of leaving offensive language intact

I was/am actually in favor of removing said language because I want language to be welcoming towards people and people are clearly taking offense.

> And who has determined that is not an actual problem? Or that this is not > effective or helpful? You?

No, I am in no way able to determine that. And I really hope it is helpful.

<comment><USER16> After writing my post, I thought again about directing my arguments at you specifically. It was maybe too personal and assumptive. I think I got too defensive.

Anyway, I appreciate that you read what I wrote and chose to keep in the conversation.

<comment><USER17> Thank you. After reading my initial comment and having given it some thought I think I need to reconsider some of my points.

I really like how ljm put it in this comment:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23509854](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23509854)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> @dang please add a year flag to this - it's especially important given that Redis and antirez moved in a direction opposite of what this blog post describes (see other comments in the thread)

</comment><comment><USER19> I've read about a bunch of these renaming efforts in the past weeks and I think some of these are very justified while some of them seem to take it further than necessary.

The master/slave naming seems clearly outdated to me and this one is a direct reference to slavery. A better word like replica exists so I'm using that instead. This makes a lot of sense.

On the other hand there's efforts to rename white/black list or the "master" branch on git. I've never thought of these as even being related to racism until people started opening issues on Github projects about that. A master branch in this context is just like a vinyl master, or a master class to me. The final finished product and not any kind of reference to slavery. Am I wrong?

<comment><USER20> I always thought about it as the "vinyl master" analogy as well but it looks like it has a master/slave origin from the Bitkeeper days.

[https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel- list/2019-May/...](https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel- list/2019-May/msg00066.html)

<comment><USER21> Honestly, why does it matter where the word comes from? Virtually no one ever used a git master branch thinking about slavery and not the "vinyl master" analogy. Shouldn't that be the actual meaning that is worth evaluating? Language evolves over time, the "master" in the git context doesn't have any reference anymore (in meaning) to the master/slave (which is a stupid wording to be honest) from bitkeeper. A soft proof to that is that every time that discussion occurs, you have lot of comments expressing their confusion given that the word in git context is actually used as a "master record".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> The problem I'm starting to see is that the continued use of phrases like this (master/slave, blacklist/whitelist) can be a constant reminder to some that they "don't belong here." Obviously, in this context, they aren't meant to be racist; but they are a reminder that racism exists. The end result is that it makes more people feel unwanted and ultimately leave tech.

<comment><USER23> Yikes. "Blacklist" has nothing to do with skin colour. In a different context, "being in the black" is a positive situation and contrasted with "being in the red".

We start down that path and we'll end up banning "Paint it black" as a racist song.

<comment><USER24> A blacklist may not have anything to do with skin color, but being on a blacklist usually has _negative_ connotations, not positive.

The related term is "whitelist," not "redlist." So I can understand why people might believe the pair has racial overtones.

<comment><USER23> I think this is a similar misunderstanding as attributing the spelling "history" (which is a typical transliteration of the word "ιστορία" from Greek, that doesn't have a "his" syllable) to the fact that history is dominated by male figures. Some have suggested the term should be changed to "herstory" to recognise the contribution of women to history.

To my mind, thinking that "blacklisting" has racist connotations because we all African people "black" also, is a similar kind of confusion.

Edit: to clarify what I'm trying to say. The fact that "black" is in "blacklist" is a coincidence and nothing to do with racism. Same as the fact that "his" is in "history".

<comment><USER25> >Some have suggested the term should be changed to "herstory" to recognise the contribution of women to history.

Which is funny in itself. "history" is sexist because it's male, so let's do some affirmative action and make it sexist in the other direction!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Here we go again. But seriously, what's wrong with using "primary" and "replica" in a database context? They're generally clearer terms anyway. Obviously we'll be stuck talking about "master" and "slave" IDE connectors and the like, but other than that it seems to be falling out of use pretty much everywhere.

<comment><USER27> Also on the topic of Whitelist/Blacklist, I thought it was stupid to go about renaming, but then I saw the alternative was Allowlist/Blocklist, which IMO is much clearer (doubly so for non-native speakers).

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> I have to be honest, I think this kind of conversation is a difficult one to have because it can be far too easy to start arguing against what you _think_ the other person is saying, not what they actually _are_ saying. There's a lot of nuance that isn't done justice to (perhaps ironically so), especially as these conversations kick off from github issues, or on social media, and almost instantly devolve from there.

I often find myself getting a headache while reading some of these 'conversations' as I try to get my head around the various perspectives at play. Some of it is truly exhausting, particularly the 'what about the slippery slope' argument that often comes up (in this comment section we have 'what about black hole', 'what about blackout'; in others it's 'what about maestro', etc.). Similarly, it's tiring to repeatedly hear the defence of censoring or erasing history. At the same time, the same is true of those in a hurry to brand others as racists, fascists, or otherwise phobic of something. These all feel like blunt instruments that do more to shut down the conversation rather than encourage it.

There are way more than two sides to this story, it really isn't as black and white as the conversation can make it out to be (on so many levels). And as far as I'm concerned it's a conversation that requires one to take a step back for several moments and seriously consider the things that are currently at stake, and to start healthily unpacking this before jumping to an instinctual response.

For me, the way we discuss this is just as much about compassion and genuine empathy, and adapting to change, as it is anything else. And also for me, if the terms 'master' and 'slave' have served their purpose and need to be changed, so be it. That doesn't upset me at all, but the toxic and hateful drama that often spews from such a decision really does.

</comment><comment><USER29> Why do majority of people here hearing slave thinks about black people? "Slave" comes from Latin where it initially meant a Slavic person. Northern African slave traders, Turkish jasyr slaves, slavery of eastern European women (Slavic and Jewish) sold to brothels in South America are also all but forgotten. Racism is disgusting in any form but limiting slavery to only America is also racist.

</comment><comment><USER30> (I have no opposition to replacing master-slave, this is not intended as bait - I'm curious what others think).

How about "robot?" From "Broken Metaphor: The Master-Slave Analogy in Technical Literature" [1]:

> a new term meaning "slave" was entering the English language to describe an > autonomous device meant to obey its master: "robot," from the 1923 > translation of Karel Cˇapek's 1921 play R.U.R. (the word robot having been > derived from a Czech word for slave, "robotnik").

If 'robot' isn't problematic, why is that? Is it because because the word is more decoupled from its origin than 'slave,' or because the origin of the word is less well known? Or is the negative-ness lost in translation?

[1] [https://muse.jhu.edu/article/215390](https://muse.jhu.edu/article/215390)

</comment><comment><USER31> All the discussion on this submission tells me is that it's not enough to disagree with others, one also has to ridicule them and emphasize how stupid they are for having a position one doesn't understand. Maybe even tie it to a greater culture war where inferiors who don't deserve to be in tech are ruining it for the ones already here. Stay hackernews, hackernews.

</comment><comment><USER32> My guess is that this was resubmitted due to this opinion piece the Washington Post ran yesterday:

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/06/12/tech- indu...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/06/12/tech-industry-has- an-ugly-master-slave-problem/)

</comment><comment><USER33> He's right. Unfortunately there are many people like Mark. They fight worthless fights and attack people who disagree with them. It's very American to sweep problems under the carpet because of political correctness.

</comment><comment><USER34> Between this and the commit replacing sexually charged hexspeak constants, I'm shaking my head this morning.

It makes me want to be less politically correct on purpose just to troll the kinds of people who advocate for this meaningless crap.

Words are not inherently offensive, if not used in an offensive manner. Can we just all please go back to being grownups now?

</comment><comment><USER35> What a coincidence! I was just reading [https://redis.io/topics/replication](https://redis.io/topics/replication) few hours back and when I saw this _leader-follower (master-slave)_ I couldn't help but wonder why they were bringing in a new terminology.

</comment><comment><USER36> Allow me to be offended on behalf of you, and if you aren't offended then you are a problem too.

<comment><USER37> I think of it as:

1) I am personally offended, so you should be offended to.

2) If you are not offended, then because my personal offense is rooted in a just cause, you are bad.

3) Because you are bad, I cannot have a dialog with you. Indeed, I should not even try, because the cause is just.

MLK Jr had wise words on this, noticing the danger of a person convinced of their own righteousness. Much of the non-violence playbook was predicated on the tightrope that is (1) convincing someone to believe strongly in a cause & (2) still act rationally enough to allow for discussion, negotiation, and compromise outcomes.

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> Flagged? Why guys?

</comment><comment><USER39> Agree with antirez - this is not a problem.

However, the hecklers will probably end up having their way simply because they do not have better things to do.

</comment><comment><USER40> Could I take a moment to be offended by the mere existence of the word "slave" and it being used in historical discussion about forced labor and treating people as property, on behalf of all slavic people?

It's ridiculous that Americans appropriate the name of my people to deal with the problems of their own society.

<comment><USER41> I know you are just trying to make a point, but then, shouldn't we point out that Americans didn't invent English nor the concept of slavery?

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> I definitely disagree with some parts of the article, but his basic point on the futility of giving way too much power to harmless words is sound.

So much so that I don't understand why this got flagged (while, for instance, the one on github trying to change this wasn't).

</comment><comment><USER43> On this subject: there's a conversation pattern that goes like this:

A: "Please change terminology X to Y because X is ethically bad, and Y is clearer anyway."

B: "I disagree about Y being clearer."

A: "You're an evil partisan of ethical-problem-in-question."

I've seen this far too often and I think it's terrible.

I strongly recommend anyone who is advocating a terminology change to either leave out the "and Y is clearer anyway" part, or be willing to discuss that part independently of the ethical part.

</comment><comment><USER44> This is a newer post about the topic but was flagged. [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23485533](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23485533)

</comment><comment><USER45> Fork it like GIMP and you can have your controller / agent

<comment><USER25> Didn't GIMP get forked because some people were offended by its name?

<comment><USER45> That's the point. Same as people getting offended by master-slave. If you don't like it fork it. Controller/Agent is what I've been seeing lately.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> Oh, great. So much progressiveness. An article that was discussed two years ago was quickly flagged today.

</comment><comment><USER47> At this rate, looks like I'm about to be pursuing a Replica of Science degree...

</comment><comment><USER48> what are people calling it instead of master / slave ?

</comment><comment><USER49> Can a mod put [2018] in the title?

</comment><comment><USER23> Needs 2018 tag. I thought this was a reprise of the old discussion in light of events in the USA. Instead, it's about something that happened two years ago.

</comment><comment><USER21> (2018)

</comment><comment><USER50> What does he mean that you can't say "fake news" on HN?

<comment><USER23> I think he's talking about this conversation:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17818978](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17818978)

Click on parent a few times to get the full background.

(I found that by searching for "antirez fake news" in comments, btw, I don't remember the conversation from the time it actually took place).

</comment></comment><comment> unit-test The Long March through the institutions.

If you wanted to breed radicalization, this how you'd do it.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_march_through_the_i...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_march_through_the_institutions)

</comment><comment><USER51> I find the top comment to be the most insightful thing here, and wish everyone who is running these campaigns would read it.

<comment><USER52> Suspicious though, that the profile photo is a freely available stock image: [https://pixabay.com/photos/fashion-afro-american-black- peopl...](https://pixabay.com/photos/fashion-afro-american-black- people-1835871/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER53> If you don't like what a project is doing then fork it and maintain it yourself.

</comment><comment><USER54> You know, of all people, it is Slavs who should be the most offended at the use of master-slave terminology. That's where the word comes from - "slave" literally started out as "Slav person". But as an actual Slav, I find it very hard to be offended. It's just a word, it can't hurt me and it doesn't imply anything harmful. Of course, the politics du jour will dictate your reaction to censorious demands, but I just find it a bit funny.

</comment><comment><USER55> It doesn't matter if YOU don't think it's offensive. It's about how others think and feel about it. Are people really so self-centered that they can't understand that? And the slippery slope argument doesn't hold water because it's very obvious when a good number of people have a problem with it vs one or two people who are trying to be provocative. People are reasonable and if they are telling you something bothers them, it most likely legitimately bothers them.

<comment><USER56> > It doesn't matter if YOU don't think it's offensive. It's about how others > think and feel about it.

Your premise actually means no feelings matter and it doesn't matter what anybody thinks. It's self-collapsing and reveals the contradiction in what you're proposing.

<comment><USER55> No it doesn't. It just means you can't rely on a single (your) viewpoint when it comes to a large community-involved open source project. It's the equivalent of "works on my machine".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> > was disappointed to see that Redis still uses the "master" and "slave" > terminology in order to identify different roles in Redis replication.

What's funny to me, it's these people are against the terminology but not against the concept. Like if you are against the words, why is okay for a Redis node to be a slave and ordered around by a Redis master? Shouldn't all Redis nodes be equal?</comment>


Ask HN: Is HTML File Upload still needed for uploading files to server? - <AUTHOR>

I am working on an application for those in the media business; my users need to send files to my server for processing.  I am wondering if I should support form file upload  from local drive vs letting users use Google Picker/ Dropbox picker to select files which my application can pull later.<p>I am asking this there is a wide spread adoption of Dropbox, Google Drive etc. and the fact that apple devices do not support file upload. <comment><USER2> Apple devices have been able to upload files via HTML since iOS 6.

[http://www.webmonkey.com/2012/09/new-html-tricks-for-web- dev...](http://www.webmonkey.com/2012/09/new-html-tricks-for-web-developers- in-apples-ios-6-2/)

If you want to incorporate Google Drive or Dropbox, go ahead, but know that many corporate environments block those services, which is why basic HTML file uploads are still the standard.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks ! I did not know about iOS6's file upload capability.</comment></comment>


NASA just announced in a blog post that SLS will cost 30% more - <AUTHOR> https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/08/nasa-just-announced-in-a-blog-post-that-sls-will-cost-30-more/ <comment><USER2> Whatever it takes to keep those key congresspeople happy, I guess.</comment>


Ask HN: Self-hosted Alternatives to Dropbox? - <AUTHOR> Dropbox is dropping support for syncing on "non-supported" filesystems. I'm a paying customer for Dropbox, but would like to have an option for self-hostable file syncing systems to scale down my reliance on Dropbox. Best recommendations? <comment><USER2> Sparkleshare [0]:

        SparkleShare creates a special folder on your computer.
        You can add remotely hosted folders (or "projects") to
        this folder. These projects will be automatically kept
        in sync with both the host and all of your peers when
        someone adds, removes or edits a file.

        SparkleShare uses the version control system Git under
        the hood, so setting up a host yourself is relatively
        easy. Using your own host gives you more privacy and
        control, as well as lots of cheap storage space and
        higher transfer speeds. We've made a simple script that
        does the hard work for you.

[0] [https://www.sparkleshare.org/](https://www.sparkleshare.org/)

</comment><comment><USER3> Complex: Nextcloud [1] Simple: Chroot SFTP + lftp [2]

Nextcloud encrypts each users files, so you can let your friends use it too.

SFTP is simpler and must faster to set up and much lighter weight. You could create accounts for friends, but it's up to them to encrypt their files at rest.

Both are self hosted. Nextcloud requires a bunch of dependencies, or using their docker image. SFTP is already on any linux VM you spin up.

[1] - [https://nextcloud.com/](https://nextcloud.com/)

[2] - [https://tinyvpn.org/sftp/#lftp](https://tinyvpn.org/sftp/#lftp)

<comment><AUTHOR> Do you know the state of Nextcloud vs Seafile vs Sparkleshare? Wasn't one of them a new fork of a previous one? The idea of a client seems nice (especially getting access on iPhone/tablet).

I've done long ago ftp in the past, but I like auto-syncing my files to provide redundancy. Though using ZeroTier it's pretty easy to sync between my devices. Especially as I use ZFS, so `zfs send | ssh othernode.home zfs receive` is pretty nice.

Anyone use [https://www.resilio.com/](https://www.resilio.com/) (previously Bittorrent Sync)?

<comment><USER3> Nextcloud was a fork of Owncloud. There are a bunch of blogs that compare the various soltuions if you search for "Nextcloud vs Seafile vs Sparkleshare". I've only set up Nextcloud once, after watching a co-worker deploy it. I appreciated that it is self hosted and supports many cloud storage options. As to which is better suited for your needs, you would want to research all of them.

My preference is Chroot SFTP + the LFTP client. It's the fastest sync I have ever used and trivial to set up both client and server. You can get auto- syncing with inotify or a cron job in this manor.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'm incredibly pleased with Syncthing. I use a small VPS with backups to cover the passive backup angle.

Requires minimal config, uses LAN if available, also supports multiple folders and ignores. I can store all my npm using projects on there now, and I can "spin up" a new computer very quickly by just syncing my config folder.

</comment><comment><USER5> That would be Seafile ([https://www.seafile.com](https://www.seafile.com)). Has a desktop sync client (like Dropbox), a Web interface which has all kind of useful features (like upload-only links) and a mobile client which actually works.

<comment><USER6> I would highly recommend nextcloud over seafile. Seafile does not appear to take security seriously in any capacity as can be demonstrated by the maintainers here: [https://github.com/haiwen/seafile/issues/350](https://github.com/haiwen/seafile/issues/350) , [https://github.com/privacytoolsIO/privacytools.io/issues/490](https://github.com/privacytoolsIO/privacytools.io/issues/490)

Nextcloud is written in PHP an so many people believe it to be insecure per default, but the devs are highly capable and put an emphasis on security from my experience.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> If you happen to have a Synology storage device you could also look into their Drive[0] solution. Offers about the same features as Dropbox.

[0] [https://www.synology.com/en- us/dsm/feature/drive](https://www.synology.com/en-us/dsm/feature/drive)

</comment><comment><USER8> Nextcloud works really well, I use that on scaleway for a really cheap setup!

</comment><comment><USER9> Resilio: [https://www.resilio.com/individuals/](https://www.resilio.com/individuals/)

</comment><comment><USER10> rsync combined with some sort of cron or filesystem event watcher?

<comment><USER11> I see what you did there

<comment><USER10> What did I do?

<comment><USER11> I thought you were making a humorous reference to the comment trashing dropbox when it was shown on hn.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> "Rysnc and cron"</comment>


Border Patrol Agents Attempted to Delete Racist Posts - <AUTHOR> https://theintercept.com/2019/07/05/border-patrol-facebook-group/ <comment> java-man In the name of national security, I am sure.</comment>


TechCrunch50 behind the scenes of the selection process - <AUTHOR> http://techpulse360.com/2008/11/10/how-fairsoftware-became-a-techcrunch50-startup-true-story/

<comment><AUTHOR> Some more notes on TC50's selection process. Hundreds of people started meeting online on TC's comment section. It was an hourly freaky "did you hear yet?" for days and days.

Just like college applications, everyone was waiting to know if anyone else had been accepted. It was very tense, but it was great!

</comment><comment><USER2> The bigger question is how much did it matter for all those who went through the selection process. Especially startups that were on the margin with first- time entrepreneurs.</comment>


Unsupervised Machine Learning: What Will Replace BackPropagation? - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@RebelScience/unsupervised-machine-learning-what-will-replace-backpropagation-23a781dae0c8 <comment><USER2> >> the persistent but deeply flawed idea that an intelligent system must somehow model the world by creating internal representations of things in the world.

OK, we don't need internal representations to reason about the world.

How do we store knowledge for reuse then? Do we have to relearn what the entire world means every time we need to form a thought about anything? That sounds a bit... inefficient.

Is it such a big philosphical problem to accept that maybe the brain does whatever is best in each situation? Maybe there are situations that are best served by an internal model- some background knowledge of a range of well- understood tasks. Maybe there are situations that it's best to intuit and fly by the seat of your pants, so that a stored model of the world just slows you down. Why does the brain have to be a one-trick pony, like most of our AI?

</comment><comment><USER3> Wow, this was even worse than I expected. Don't waste your time.</comment>


How sleep and mental health are linked in the brain - <AUTHOR> https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/11/how-sleep-and-mental-health-are-linked-in-the-brain/?utm_content=buffer0592b&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer <comment><USER2> In my experience with mental health adventures, sleep is absolutely essential.

It's difficult to explain, but when my sleep patterns become sporadic or light, my behavior and thought processes become... erratic. The way I internally describe it is as "heady", where my mental state has an almost physical feel that almost matches the feeling of blood rushing to an arm or a leg after standing up. During this time, I can get extended periods of hypomania and isolation. The only fix I've found is to simply get an amount of sleep that makes sense, which makes me think that there's an enormous correlation between mental health and sleep.

Edit: For what it's worth, it's also the same feeling I get when I don't take lithium.

</comment><comment><USER3> I won't dispute the importance of sleep, but what really rubs me the wrong way about this article is how it doesn't really even acknowledge sleep disorders. I'm biased; my life was semi-fucked for a while because it took ~20 years to stumble across a psychiatrist who thought to order a sleep study. But when I was researching sleep disorders, I found a lot of mention that several of them are believed to be hugely underdiagnosed (e.g. there are estimates that only ~20% of sleep apnea in Americans is diagnosed). I wonder how many other people out there are still stumbling along on their fourth or fifth antidepressant when CPAP is what would actually help.

</comment><comment><USER4> When you see the suspense/terror movie the Babadook... you could as well be seeing a documentary from the perspective of someone who is sleep deprived.

I remember the words of a psychiatrist... whenever someone comes with any problem the first thing they must is sleep.

</comment><comment><USER5> For me anyway, I find that there's little link between the two. I sleep on average 4.5 hours and (I don't think) it has effected in any way my mental health.

The biggest thing for me that completely changes my mood (not world caving in type, but noticable), is amounting external presures like obligation, deadlines, etc - the inescapable. I've learned to minimise these in my life, much to my happiness.

YMMV

<comment><USER6> That is easily explained by the theory that is us not just the amount of the sleep that counts, but rather the quality.

I can wake up after 5 hours of sleep and be completely refreshed. I can also wake up after 8 hours of bad disrupted sleep due to various reasons and feel like a trainwreck the entire day. Including most symptoms in the article, especially if that happens a couple of nights in row: first and foremost the anger (well, mainly the amount of effort it takes to suppress that is killing me) but also the 'wrong' trains of thought, seeing flashes of things which aren't there etc.

All of which can then again be rest by 5 (or more) hours of proper sleep.

<comment><USER7> Quality of sleep is definitely a big factor, but genetics also govern how much sleep an individual needs. Some people just naturally need less sleep than others. Personally, I've found that if I allow myself to sleep and wake whenever I want, I eventually settle to a stable state of 8.5 hrs sleep/night. However, I typically get less than 8.5 hrs/night on weekdays and sleep in on weekends. After keeping track of my sleep, I found that on average, I was still sleeping 8.5 hrs/night every week, and I would sleep in just enough on weekends to hit my quota.

<comment><USER8> I think you'd need at least three consistent days of sleep before you could even begin to assess what is your normal amount.

Isn't that some sort of biological rule? You couldn't settle into a normal pattern in just one day since all the previous days poor sleep would still be affecting you.

<comment><USER7> Yeah, I forgot to mention that this was over a period of two months. I settled to 8.5 hrs, on the dot, but with a shift of sleeping a bit later every day.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> This was a terrible article, and did not explain any link to mental illness.

<comment><USER10> Did you miss the entire "Sleep disruption in mental illness" section?

<comment><USER11> This is pop-psychology garbage. Pat yourself on the back and feel good about agreeing with something obvious.

Drugs are bad, m'kay. Sleep deprivation is bad, m'kay?

This is linked to that. Broad sweeping statistics seem to indicate whatever. Someday science will know more, but gosh Mr. Science sure could know a lot more right now. So many millions of numbers, and then there's people who do such and such. We're only beginning to unravel the mysteries of faith.

Not much to say about why brain cells die. Not much to say about the specific mechanics of any direct outcome, or why the brain actually needs up to a third of it's time wound down to a state of minimal activity, or what really happens during that downtime.

But 99% of all boogey men are sleep deprived. Furthermore here is a glossary of mental illnesses from the hall of fame of DSM V diagnosis, that everyone's sure to recognize, and sleep deprivation can be tied to all of them with delicious weasle words. Yay!

<comment><USER10> If you disagree with the content there, fine; I was responding to the above comment that the reference to mental illness _wasn 't there_.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Maybe the mental health conditions are the cause of bad sleep?</comment>


NASA Face in Space - <AUTHOR> http://faceinspace.nasa.gov/

<comment><USER2> "Select the Participate button at the bottom of this page and upload your image/name, which will be flown aboard the space shuttle."

What... as binary data in a USB drive? Or is some poor intern going to print out all these, put them onto the cart with the wobbly 3rd wheel (the fourth already fell off) and dump them into the shuttle?

This seems like a bad publicity stunt...

</comment><comment><USER3> I can hardly believe NASA is going to become a relic...

<comment><USER4> I believe the plan is to retire the space shuttle, not all of NASA.

<comment><USER5> But retiring their human space flight is almost as bad. I love our robot probes to death, they do important science at a fraction of a fraction of the cost it would take humans to do the same. However right now all of our proverbial eggs are on this tiny spit of sand, unable to escape. We need to build on the advances in human space flight that were made last century if we are to ensure our survival in the medium term in this cosmos.

Talking with my father, he hopes to see humans return to the Moon and then onwards to Mars in his life time. At this rate I am doubtful if it will be accomplished in my lifetime. Though if we made a concerted effort we could put someone on Mars within a decade, at least that is my believe given our current technology and our previous Moon program. Though a long term sustainable program is far more desirable.

<comment><USER6> They are not retiring all of human spaceflight - they are mothballing what's left of the shuttle fleet. Human spaceflight can continue with Soyuz for now and with SpaceX if and when they are ready. The Dragon can also ride a Delta. Also, the Orion was not canned, AFAIK, so, it too can ride a Delta IV to LEO, as soon as Delta IV's get man-rated. As for the freight capacity, a Delta IV Heavy can carry as heavy a payload as a shuttle (not sure about dimensions), so, there is no loss of capability. A shuttle is a 100 ton vehicle with 30 ton payload. That's 70 more than you need.

If we are to escape Earth, we need something much better than chemical rockets. We may need them to reach LEO, but, from then on, we need to perfect more efficient ways to move. The shuttle is a dead end. We need modular systems that can be assembled in varied ways to suit a given mission profile. The shuttle is perfect for one thing and one thing only - to bring truck-sized payloads back from LEO. For all other uses, it is much more expensive than its competition and the only thing that kept it in operation was an absurd determination that prevented development of other vehicles.

Don't get me wrong - it's a beautiful machine, but it should never be the only system available, for it is unsuitable for just about every real usage.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


250,000 words of app terms and conditions - <AUTHOR> http://www.forbrukerradet.no/side/250000-words-of-app-terms-and-conditions/ <comment><USER2> _" The current state of terms and conditions for digital services is bordering on the absurd. Their scope, length and complexity mean it is virtually impossible to make good and informed decisions"_

...thus effectively serving the interests of the service provider. As much as I'd love to see this situation change, I have a hard time imagining it happening any time soon unless one or more of the following occurs:

* consumers collectively stop using such services (unlikely)

* service providers collectively decide to change this (unlikely)

* heavy-handed government regulation (undesirable)

Hopefully I'm wrong! :)</comment>


Towards a Virtual Stuntman - <AUTHOR> http://bair.berkeley.edu/blog/2018/04/10/virtual-stuntman/ <comment><USER2> Earlier work is at [https://github.com/xbpeng/DeepTerrainRL](https://github.com/xbpeng/DeepTerrainRL)

</comment><comment><USER3> Can anybody tell what 3D software was used to show the robot simulations?

<comment><AUTHOR> Likely a custom OpenGL visualization tool, perhaps based on the tools that come with the physics library they are using, Bullet Physics. [http://bulletphysics.org/wordpress/](http://bulletphysics.org/wordpress/)</comment></comment>


Dawdle Invites Game Resellers To Set Up Shop - <AUTHOR> http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/02/16/dawdle-invites-game-resellers-to-set-up-shop/ <comment><USER2> I know the Dawdle team really well, they are very hardworking guys (who love video games) and have put a lot on the line for Dawdle to succeed - I really hope it does.

I've also used Dawdle before - it was quick and painless to buy a video game.

</comment><comment><USER3> Cool site, interface, and idea, but their rate is surprisingly high for what they are offering.

<comment><USER4> Amazon charges pretty much the same rate too

<comment><USER3> Except they process CC payments at no additional cost, have a more streamlined interface, and give you access to millions of potential buyers.

<comment><USER5> We process CCs for no additional cost as well, and we're much more streamlined than they are. We use a drop-down menu for Comes With rather than making people type it out. The people who sell games for a living _love us_ because of how streamlined we are.

As for millions of potential buyers, sure... but most buyers start their search from Google. You'd be surprised how many people create an account to buy a $6.99 game and never come back. (Now, our retention efforts suck, but that's a different story.)

<comment><USER3> That's pretty impressive. I will check out your site some more.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> they have a lot more traffic than I expected</comment>