Apple hides a Patriot-Act-busting "warrant canary" in its transparency report - <AUTHOR> http://boingboing.net/2013/11/05/apple-hides-a-patriot-act-bust.html <comment><USER2> My not-a-lawyer read on the whole warrant canary thing is that it would never fly in front of a judge. In other words, anyone with two brain cells can see that, if there has in fact been a 215 order by the time the next report rolls around, then deliberately removing the warrant canary language is tantamount to revealing the order's existence, which is illegal. So warrant canaries, while seemingly clever, are actually pretty much worthless. You may as well just openly announce something, rather than try to be clever about it.

Therefore, I am forced to come to the Kafkaesque conclusion that Apple only included this language because they _already have_ been subject to a Section 215 warrant. Otherwise there's no reason to put the language in there at all, since it's useless.

<comment><USER3> > My not-a-lawyer read on the whole warrant canary thing is that it would > never fly in front of a judge. [...] So warrant canaries, while seemingly > clever, are actually pretty much worthless.

"Worthless" is a pretty strong statement: do you have anything at all to corroborate your speculation in an area which you admit you have no expertise?

<comment><USER2> > do you have anything at all to corroborate your speculation in an area which > you admit you have no expertise?

No. I've talked to lawyers in a non-client capacity and they all agreed that taking down a warrant canary after receiving a NSL would probably be viewed as equivalent to a straightforward disclosure, since you deliberately put yourself in that situation. There is no relevant case law that I am aware of.

<comment><USER4> I can think of a example of canaries working in practice (I am not sure if they were ever challenged, but they weren't _successfully_ challenged at least). Also, the example is from the UK:

In the early part of the 20th century, the Automobile Association (the "AA") would send 'scouts' out to find speedtraps and warn motorists to slow down before arriving at them. Within a few years cops got fed up of not catching speeders, it was decided in the courts that warning people about speedtraps was an obstruction of justice, and therefore illegal.

So that put an end to that game, right? Nope. The AA developed a new technique. Their scouts would salute all passing cars at all times... unless something was wrong.

If the AA scout _didn 't_ salute you, you knew there was a speedtrap.

The theory here was that the law could not compel an AA scout to salute motorists. This worked for about 50 years, until the practice of warning motorists of speed traps _(or perhaps rather, not signaling to them an absence of speed traps...)_ was discontinued for road safety reasons _(basically they decided that speeding wasn 't a brilliant idea)_.

[http://www.theaa.com/aboutaa/history.html](http://www.theaa.com/aboutaa/history.html)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Automobile_Association#Hist...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Automobile_Association#History)

So basically, while _" Judges don't take kindly to tricks"_ does make a certain amount of intuitive cynical sense, if we remove computers from the equation _(our intuition on morality /ethics seems inconsistent when computers are involved for some reason)_, does it seem reasonable that a judge might compel a free civilian in a free society to salute? Of course not.

<comment><USER5> >The theory here was that the law could not compel an AA scout to salute motorists. This worked for about 50 years, until the practice of warning motorists of speed traps (or perhaps rather, not signaling to them an absence of speed traps...) was discontinued for road safety reasons (basically they decided that speeding wasn't a brilliant idea).

I wonder why they decided that. Speed traps have nothing to do with improving road safety. In fact they often make roads more dangerous if they expect you to slam on the brakes.

<comment><USER6> They don't expect you to slam on the brakes... They expect you to already be driving at the speed limit.

<comment><USER5> Speed traps are generally either set up by having a sudden drop in the speed limit, or by having unreasonably low speed limits. Both of these lead to higher variance in speed and make the road less safe.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Just to take this to an extreme: what's there to stop the government from systematically killing Americans who voice opposition to the NSA spying? Assume a secret court decides that the NSA can arbitrarily label any American as a 'terrorist' and that killing terrorists without a trial is a-ok. Let's also assume that anyone who knows about this program and leaks the information about how it works to anyone else is a 'terrorist' in this system.

That seems to be the same line of reasoning that the government is using for these gag orders (just taken to the most extreme case possible). There's no recourse to challenge any of this since none of the companies can talk about specifics of what they're compelled to do.

<comment><USER8> Governments who have tried that in the past find that groups of civilians start systematically killing government agents, particularly police and security forces.

It's generally a bad idea to go that route because the government is effectively condoning illegal actions and others will adjust their behavior similarly. Rather like the streets with graffitti and broken windows that seem to attract crime.

Now some would say the the government has already condoned illegal spying behavior, but that is not the same thing. Some groups have taken it upon themselves to spy back on the government but I don't know of anyone who suggests killing people as a response to illegal spying.

In any case, increasing the use of force leads to escalation and escalation leads to an expanding spiral of destruction that quickly becomes uncontrollable. For an example of what happens then, read a book called "10 days in October" and think about whether the USA really wants to follow the Soviet example. In addition, the Soviets themselves have pretty much abandoned that approach which is the main reason why the dissolution of the Soviet Union was so peaceful. Wiser heads prevailed. Can the USA at least match that as the American Empire fades away?

<comment> grey-area _Now some would say the the government has already condoned illegal spying behavior, but that is not the same thing._

As the parent pointed out, the US government has already claimed the power to assassinate Americans (or anyone else) at will without explanation. They claim this is legal and no law was broken. I'm not aware of any claimed attacks on US soil as yet, but there are plenty of examples abroad.

I agree it is ill-advised and counter-productive, but you can't argue that arbitrary extrajudicial killing has not been used against civilians and enemies already.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> The pushback from tech community in the form of these reports has been encouraging. That said, a little part of me dies when I realize the USA has become a government that censors something like the reporting of the quantity of requests.

What's the justification? I'm genuinely curious.

<comment><USER10> To play devil's advocate for a bit, let's assume an America where the government never abuses its power and there are no criminals other than two terrorist cells, one in New York and one in DC, and neither of those cells knows how to make bombs because America has education and nobody else does.

Both of these cells go to the public library and check out books on bombmaking and other mischief. They also ask the librarian, "Hey, have you had any requests for records under the PATRIOT ACT?" If they ever hear a "yes", no matter whether it's them or not, that cell shuts down and moves to another city, and the other cell continues its plot.

Leaking even the one bit of knowledge of whether there was a request for anyone would make the investigation harder, and would allow the terrorists to escape and plot the destruction of our freedom elsewhere.

Now, in the real America, the value of that one bit to an evildoer, when applied to an organization Apple's size, as opposed to the value of that one bit to measure PATRIOT ACT activity as part of government accountability, is a good question to ask.

<comment><USER11> The balance then is specific subpoenias for individuals authorised by a judge, with the individuals being informed after a reasonable period (say 9 months) which information was subpoenaed.

The library could potentially even give anonymised information that might give reasonable suspicion, eg let us know when someone rents these books together and we'll go get a warrant.

The sad thing is that the west currently has exactly this balance in place, but by pushing too hard everything is going to go underground or overseas. We're losing the exact capabilities we need to fight bad actors, thanks to the NSA's greed and short sightedness.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> The law is a lot smarter than this. Any act that tends to disclose the existence of such an order, which could include the publishing of a revised transparency report in reaction to receipt of the warrant, could be construed by a judge as a violation of its confidentiality provisions. The law is very broad on this, and subject to interpretation by the judge.

In short, warrant canaries are no different than taking out a billboard announcing receipt of the warrant. Both are overt acts intended to disclose the warrant, and both are illegal.

<comment><USER13> Nothing will ever come of it.

Warrant canaries are a cheap feel-good tactic for public relations. Even if served 215, Apple will continue to keep the warrant canary up, because it makes its customers feel safer, and because they're wise enough to know it would never fly with a judge.

The public will continue to think Apple was never served 215, and there's absolutely no way we could ever disprove it.

<comment><USER14> Apple would then be lying on an SEC filing, which is highly illegal.

<comment><USER15> I don't believe that transparency reports are filed with the SEC. Wikipedia has a list of filing codes at [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEC_filing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEC_filing)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Couldn't the government make an argument that intentional removal of this language would be tantamount to violating the "gag order?" Would Apple be liable for lying about something that no one would ever know is a lie?

<comment><USER17> I'm not a lawyer, so take everything I've got to say with a grain of salt, but I can't see why people don't just ignore gag orders as they're a clear and complete violation of your first amendment rights which "...prohibit[s] the making of any law... _abridging the freedom of speech_ , infringing on the freedom of the press..."

Thus, near as I can tell, the gag order is categorically illegal - a law which abridges your freedom of speech. Surely that's gotta stand up in court? Or what good is the Constitution? If the Constitution cannot guarantee that which it was written to guarantee, then what's the point in having it?

Lest we forget the part of the Presidential oath "...and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." So the President is bound to protect the Constitution... There's _no_ part of the Presidential oath which binds the President to protect the law. Which tacitly implies that the Constitution is more important than the law. So _theoretically_ (actual consequences not withstanding), if you were to ignore a gag order, the President himself _should_ stand next to you in court to guarantee your first amendment rights to freedom of speech and have the gag order thrown out as a violation of the Constitution.

<comment><USER18> > _the gag order is categorically illegal - a law which abridges your freedom > of speech. Surely that 's gotta stand up in court? Or what good is the > Constitution?_

A lot of people have a misconception that the Constitution guarantees total, absolute freedom of speech, when it simply does not. The rather clichéd example would be not getting to shout 'Fire!' in a crowded theater.

There are better examples to be found in real life: it would be illegal to say or print something that had the very real possibility of inciting someone to commit violence (as in Planned Parenthood vs ACLA: the ACLA was a pro-life group that encouraged people to take violent action against reproductive health workers).

So I think your mistake is in assuming the first amendment is absolute. It isn't, and for very good reasons upheld by the courts for over a century.

Is a gag order in itself bad? Not always. Sometimes gag orders serve legitimate purposes: for example, to prevent prejudicial information in a trial such as a defendant's previous, unrelated convictions from becoming public.

But regardless, the idea that the first amendment means you get to "say what you like" with no exceptions is a fallacy.

<comment><USER19> Actually the Constitution guarantees total and absolute freedom of speech, including the right to yell FIRE in a crowded theater

Every court ruling to the contrary is activism in the face of the plain language of the Constitution.

The Supreme Court has proven time and time again to be terrible protectors and stewards of the constitution

<comment><USER20> Yeah, where the hell did the Supreme Court get the crazy notion that they're the ones responsible for interpreting the Constitution?

<comment><USER19> They are not, no where in the constitution is that stated.

To Quote Jefferson: "to consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions; a very dangerous doctrine indeed, and one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy."

No part of the Constitution expressly authorizes judicial review, nor does the constitution need "interpreted" it was written in plain language and the words are very clear

Lawyers and Judges have supplanted their desires for expediency instead of going to correct and harder path of amendment.

Take for example the 18th amendments, in order for the federal government to ban alcohol a constitutional amendment was required because the government lack the constitutional power to regulate any substance, fast forward about 40 years, and all of the sudden the constitution has been "interpreted" to allow the government to ban any substance it wants at any time it so desires.

No no, the constitution does not interpretation, it needs protection, it needs to be upheld, it needs a court that will defend it, not "interpret" it like it was some dead language that only those chosen few can possibly understand

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Apple has not received 1 warrant.

Apple has not received 2 warrants.

Apple has not received 3 warrants.

Apple has not received 4 warrants.

Apple has not received 5 warrants.

Apple has not received 6 warrants.

<comment><USER22> If the NSA intercepts data "near" Googles data centers, what's to believe they don't do that at Apple too? I'm really not worried about warrants and gag orders and all that. What about the fact that all (lots of) the traffic is being pulled straight off the fiber all over the place? Anyone with more technical background care to comment?

<comment><USER23> With the interesting revelation of private fiber being tapped, I'd expect more companies to start encrypting if they haven't already. Google was sending information over unsecured circuits without encryption.

I'd expect Microsoft and others will make an announcement. With MS's overly zealous security handling these days, I'd be slightly surprised to find out that they were transmitting in the clear outside their datacenter.

If there were actual taps _inside_ the datacenters, like on top of racks and so on, that'd be quite the spectacle.

<comment><USER24> When the message is basically "the government is collecting your emails" I am skeptical that the public would get that much more mad at a technical distinction like this. If there has not been an actionable backlash yet, what really could cause it? I am thinking that the leaks need to be something along the lines of "Kate Johnson of Columbus Ohio (made up name) had her explicit text message viewed by her ex husband, an NSA analyst, on N occasions." We have not had a leak that hits home yet for everyday people (non-tech non- world-leader).

<comment><USER25> [http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/27/politics/nsa- snooping/](http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/27/politics/nsa-snooping/)

"In one 2004 case, a civilian employee told NSA security that she had spied on a foreign phone number because she found it on her husband's cell phone and suspected he was being unfaithful."

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Can someone explain to me why we should trust Apple's declaration about Section 215?

It seems to me that, were they given a Section 215 order, said order would also additionally compel them to _lie publicly_ about the receipt of the order itself, by having Apple explicitly say that they had _not_ received any such order.

Frankly, the existence of courts that secretly compel citizens or companies to actively conceal and/or lie about the State's behavior seems to make _every_ declaration of innocence by _any_ person or business that can reasonably be expected to have been used by the State in that capacity suspect. Trust simply is not there no matter what they say or don't say, and I don't see how it can be given the actors involved and the legality of the situation.

I'd like to be wrong. Are there flaws in my reasoning here?

<comment><USER27> > Are there flaws in my reasoning here?

Yes.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> This seems like a good way to work around the issue for now. Good on Apple indeed.

Obviously, this is also going to be an escalating game, where the law is changed to accomodate for squelching reports like this, and the players will likewise adapt...

</comment><comment><USER29> Would love to hear from an ACTUAL LAWYER on this. Every single comment here seems to be be "IANAL, but", followed by some fairly confident ramblings about the legal aspects of this whole issue.

</comment><comment><USER30> Can the US government compel a private citizen to lie?

That seems like the crux of canaries to me. It's also one supreme court case that might be itself a kind of canary in the cole mine.

</comment><comment><USER31> Warrants are quite a _quaint_ notion in an era of parallel construction and Room 641As. To talk of warrants today is like talking of rope in the house of a hanged man.

</comment><comment><USER32> What's the consequence for violating such a gag order anyway?

I'm pretty sure Apple has the cash to pay any fine they can come up with, it's just a question of do they have the balls to try it.

<comment><USER23> Presumably they can mete out secret criminal punishments for violating national security, directly to whoever they gave the NSL to?

<comment><USER33> Citation?

<comment><USER23> None. I'm just assuming if they sent a such a secret gag order it wouldn't be very effective if companies could just ignore it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> I wouldn't expect Apple to ever receive a 215 order. They'd just play ball before one was even needed, and so the canary can stay in place indefinitely.

<comment><USER35> Pretty much this.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> This is pretty much all bullshit. If you believe Apple hasn't been subject to an order of this kind already, you are a fool.

</comment><comment><USER37> So someone inside Apple decides to post a warrant canary. Presumably -that person- have never been served with a 215 warrant. They ask around: anybody else been served with a 215 warrant? Of course, the answer to that question is always no - whether they have or not. So what does it really tell you, when a company puts out a warrant canary?

</comment><comment><USER38> Isn't this sort of futile? Say Apple removes the section about "... never received an order under Section 215 of the USA Patriot Act" tomorrow. What does that tell us? That Apple did in fact receive such an order in the last 24 hours? Perhaps, or perhaps they were instructed to remove that part of the transparency report and Apple complied.

And even if we do know that they received such an order, what does that tell us? Does that tell us that the US government is targeting someone using iClouds? Or maybe it tells us that the US government issued a pointless order just so they can void this so called "warrant canary". It tells us very little.

Ultimately, unless corporations-as-persons have the right to speak freely about government orders it receives, we can only assume that everything transmitted through the Internet can be intercepted and given to the US government.

<comment><USER14> > Perhaps, or perhaps they were instructed to remove that part of the > transparency report and Apple complied.

Making this effort in the first place is far more risky than disobeying an 'instruction' to remove it; the Patriot Act does not grant the government unlimited power, and they can't simply command its removal.

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> Interestingly how nobody commented on "We would expect to challenge such an order if served on us." part.

</comment><comment><USER40> The claim could also be compliance not to disclose under 215. eg. The 'canary' is already a lie.

</comment><comment><USER41> What if Apple, google, etcetera were to make the processes that these warrants ask for, part of a trigger.

As long as the warrant requests the same data or less than all the data, then performing those actions trigger an email to the user stating "A third party has requested access to your account.".

I would guess it would be best for these companies to add a few buttons to their internal tools to export user data. Then it's a part of their business process.

Many "third parties" can ask for and get your data legally. And letting them know is also legal. So there is a user value to this user feature.

Now, the next request goes from legal to top guy to tech guy to some guy who clicks a button in a browser.

</comment><comment><USER42> Has Apple explained how they're able to decrypt iPhones for law enforcement yet?

<comment><USER43> Why did Apple agree to do such a thing? Were they legally compelled to do so, or did they up and decide that it was a good idea?

<comment><USER44> Why did Microsoft sabotage Skype so that governments could more easily intercept communications?

<comment><USER45> Source?

<comment><USER46> [http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft- nsa-c...](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa- collaboration-user-data)

<comment><USER45> From your link:

> Eight months before being bought by Microsoft, Skype joined the Prism > program in February 2011.

Article regarding the change to a centralized super node model[0]:

> "It's pretty good for security reasons because then you don't rely on random > people running random stuff on their machine,"

Now it may be due to the fact that the centralized super nodes provide intelligence agencies with better capabilities - but to claim "Why did Microsoft sabotage Skype __so that governments could more easily intercept communications __" is somewhat in-genuine.

First, there's no evidence to suggest that Microsoft were the instigators in switching to a centralized model[1] (that I'm aware of). Secondly, to claim NSA interception as the primary reason is, at best, a guess.

I'm angry at what the NSA is doing - especially since I'm not an American, and I'm not "protected" by any law. Microsoft appear to be the worst and most blatant offenders being discussed. But I don't think it helps the discussion when claims are exaggerated. It gives fodder to deniers and to the opposition to use your claims against other, more correct claims.

[0][http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/05/skype- replaces-p2p-s...](http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/05/skype- replaces-p2p-supernodes-with-linux-boxes-hosted-by-microsoft/)

[1][http://www.zdnet.com/skype-ditched-peer-to-peer- supernodes-f...](http://www.zdnet.com/skype-ditched-peer-to-peer-supernodes- for-scalability-not-surveillance-7000017215/)

<comment><USER44> You're right, it looks like the capability was there before Microsoft bought Skype. [https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/06/new_details_o...](https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/06/new_details_on.html)

That's not to say they didn't help: [http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog/tom- keating/microsoft-patents-vo...](http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog/tom- keating/microsoft-patents-voip-and-skype-wiretapping.asp) [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4254925](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4254925) [http://news.softpedia.com/news/Microsoft-Ignores-PRISM- Claim...](http://news.softpedia.com/news/Microsoft-Ignores-PRISM-Claims- Dumps-P2P-and-Moves-Skype-Entirely-to-the-Cloud-389080.shtml)

<comment><USER45> Read the first comment of the yc link[0]

> (1) Microsoft is a US Corporation > (2) With the Skype acquisition, > Microsoft (arguably) becomes a telecommunications carrier. > (3) CALEA > passed in 1994, "requiring telecommunications carriers and manufacturers of > telecommunications equipment modify and design their equipment, facilities, > and services to ensure they have built-in surveillance capabilities, > allowing federal agencies to monitor all telephone, broadband internet, and > VoIP traffic in real-time."

Again, your original comment might be 100% accurate, but there's just no proof of that. Also, telecommunication companies are required to provide the means to intercept communications.

I guess I'm just wary of comments and articles that make claims that can't be substantiated. It dilutes the value of correct (substantiated) information.

[0] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4254925](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4254925)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> I said in other comments that I certainly can't see this working. If it did work, why not just make a policy that says We'll keep a badge on your profile every day that we don't have an order that affects your records, but should we ever get such an order, of course we would take your badge away? I think Apple is just rightfully pissed, and maybe wants to be pushed into clearly lying to shareholders, or even put themselves in a position to be granted immunity for such an action.

</comment><comment><USER48> While the court can, of course, order Apple to keep the warrant canary intact, there are plenty of deniable ways to subvert that order. E.g. Apple can subtly signal that the canary was added after the rest of the report was prepared, by screwing up the page numbering or putting the canary in a separate appendix.

</comment><comment><USER49> Put me on the "IANAL, but it seems to me that removing that language is just another way of disclosing, so if they do receive a request they cannot remove the language" bandwagon.

</comment><comment><USER50> The Apple statement is dated. Why must the "warrant canary" be removed if there should be a warrant in the future, when the statement is correct at the time of publication?

</comment><comment><USER51> I expect Apple has been hit with such warrants already, and this phrase is nothing but simple PR talk happily misinterpreted by the overenthusiastic airheads at BoingBoing.

</comment><comment><USER52> All this changes is that from now on Apple will always have a 'we did not receive a 215 warrant' in their transparency report, no matter if they got one or not.

</comment><comment><USER53> What's to stop Apple from simply leaving the canary up even though they're shoveling data out the back door? Is their transparency report legally binding?

<comment><USER14> They could have issues with the SEC for intentionally lying in such a thing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER54> The other way of letting everyone know about NSLs is to get an Australian to tell everyone about it.

</comment><comment><USER46> No warrant canary for FAA, unfortunately.

</comment><comment><USER55> They should tell just a few trustworthy people (a la Glenn Greenwald) about a hard-to-find canary, so that the government can't easily pressure them into not using it.

<comment><USER56> Wrong ... your own company should be the canary. You must have processes in place that make compliance without making stuff public extremely hard.

Yes if the keys are in foreign national, the US still has some leverage but they would spend diplomatic capital only in very high profile cases.</comment></comment>


Snowden withdraws Russian asylum bid after Putin says he must 'stop harming' US - <AUTHOR> http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/02/19245678-snowden-withdraws-russian-asylum-bid-after-putin-says-he-must-stop-harming-us

<comment><USER2> As an outsider looking in, I don't really see it as harming the US, just the US government, by exposing how the US government are harming its people. I think this is how Putin has worded it too, he hasn't said "harming the US" but "US partners". It's horrible that there is such a distinction because the ideal should be the government is the equivalent of the people.

<comment><USER3> Arguably, revealing the details of cyber attacks on Chinese targets harms the US in the ongoing cyber warefare between the two.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> > If #Snowden can't find asylum, it will be depressingly clear that the US not > only eavesdrops on the world but runs it.

\- @JPBarlow [https://twitter.com/jpbarlow/status/351937848217317380](https://twitter.com/jpbarlow/status/351937848217317380)

I am trying to imagine what leverage we have over Russia.

<comment><USER5> > I am trying to imagine what leverage we have over Russia.

Russians don't want a cold war again

<comment><USER6> It never ended, at least not in the eyes of governments.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Russia wants to have him as a possible tool to press the USA in the future - that is why they want him to stop the leaking now - when all is leaked he'll be of no value to them.

By rejecting these terms Snowden shows character - but he is now in a really bad situation. Requesting asylum in Poland (where one of the secret CIA prisons was located) was an act of desperation.

<comment><USER8> That is pure speculation on your part. The other side could be that Snowden wants to continue leaking information and thus "harming" the United States.

<comment><USER9> There yet another side to this: by signing that he "stops harming the US", Snowden would sign that he "is currently harming the US".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> _Snowden withdraws Russian asylum bid after Putin says he must 'stop harming' US_

This title strongly implies that he seeks to harm the US. Let the media marauding begin. I really don't feel that Snowden looked to _harm_ the US, but rather hold the country he was serving accountable for what it was and still may be doing.

<comment><USER11> Prism has done more harm to the USA that anything Snowden did. Let's not shift the blame away from the guilties. And the guilties are those who abuse their power in the name of security, along with those who let it happen ( the entire executive branch and congress basically ). Or would you prefer not to know anything about it ?

Obama says there are "checks and balances", there are none. Given the situation today , it's not difficult to imagine what the situation will be 10 years from now. And putting republicans in power wont make a difference.

Frankly i dont know if there is any solution to that problem. Politicians never give up willing the power they steal from the people.

Good luck america.

<comment><USER12> > Prism has done more harm to the USA that anything Snowden did.

We don't know that.

And if we were to speculate, we could observe that there have been very few terrorist attacks on the US in the past ten years. I'm not trying to equate correlation and causation here, just pointing out that very few people on the planet are able to assess whether PRISM is beneficial or detrimental to the security of the US.

<comment><USER13> > And if we were to speculate, we could observe that there have been very few > terrorist attacks on the US in the past ten years.

Is that accurate? The list I found on Wikipedia indicates it is not but perhaps you have a better source of information. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Can't see Snowden harming America. Pretty sure America is harming itself.

<comment><USER15> It would be funny if people realized that Snowden giving himself up will cause harm to America (or more precisely its reputation). I just laugh at the absurdity of Putin's statement in that light.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> All these page-long news articles published in the last couple of weeks usually consist of one bit of useful information - in this case the first paragraph - and then the same things over and over again. It doesn't even cite the source, let alone name it (no, "a government spokesman" is not a source). I feel like many news websites just use the issue to throw out as much content containing the word "Snowden" as possible these days, and I'm finding it hard to gather new information in this ocean of entropy.

</comment><comment><USER17> I wonder if it's as simple as the old rule of the streets being at play here? That is, if the USA and Russia are rival gang members, they would each look poorly on "snitches" even if they are from the other side.

<comment><USER18> There's something to that thought -- the phrase "I love treason but hate a traitor" is from Shakespeare, and has been attributed to many leaders (such as Julius Ceasar) but captures the essence of the point.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> I find it incredible that Snowden can't seem to find asylum; does the process take longer than I thought, or is there something deeper going on?

It appears to my untrained eye that rather than force a state to hand him over, the U.S. is simply pressuring them to deny (or stall) his asylum requests. It's a face-saving neutral ground for the nations in question, but it still gets the U.S. what it wants.

<comment><USER20> My government has a history of treating whistleblowers harshly when they embarrass either the government or the government's corporate masters. Our laws applied to whistleblowers are much harsher than in other countries (at least in the UK and most of Europe) so our government has powerful weapons to intimidate possible future whistleblowers.

I think Snowden knew his life would effectively be over before he started this.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Well if true then the move makes no sense. Why would he ruin any chance of getting out of the airport if that's where he is? Also, if he really is there then why have no photographs of him been taken? Surely there is at least a couple (sarcasm) of people that go through the airport each day? Where is this guy and why don't we see his face anymore?

<comment> brown9-2 More than likely he is holed up in a special area of the airport, detained or guarded by Russian special services.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> He could be testing waters to see how different countries react, just to see what their true colours or at least public ones are.

</comment><comment><USER11> Well , there is no freedom of speech in russia , but there is none in most European countries neither. He should chose carefully where he wants to go. I'd suggest him to avoid France and UK. Dont know about other european countries.

<comment><USER23> In what sense there is no freedom of speech in Russia?

<comment><USER24> [http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/gay- propagand...](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/gay-propaganda- becomes-illegal-in-russia-8680574.html)

<comment><USER23> It doesn't make any sense. Gay propaganda is considered to be a crime and it is normal to restrict this crime. Meanwhile one could discuss is it correct to consider such a thing as a crime or not.

<comment><USER25> I think what air was saying is that in the US, propaganda, of any sort, cannot be a crime, due to the 1st amendment to the US constitution. That is freedom of speech.

<comment><USER23> Well, it could be so de jure in USA. But de facto we see opposite. Snowden mentioned unconstitutional violation of human rights of US citizen. And now he is hunted by US government, seriously hunted.

Russia is way more open in this perspective.

<comment><USER26> He did more than just 'mention' it, he stoled government property and disseminated classified information to the public. I'm not saying what he did was 'wrong', but it is illegal and not particularly a free speech issue.

I'm not sure how anyone could say Russia's 'way more open' with a straight face[1].

[1]: [http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/24/world/europe/russia-free- speec...](http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/24/world/europe/russia-free-speech- report)

<comment><USER23> These people didn't negotiate this meeting. This is the formal reason.

Informal reason is that they are often organized by the institutions which funded by other countries, institutions, which aim is definitely not a prohibition of Russia.

May be it is a good idea to avoid judgements about countries/cultures, which you don't understand?</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


GitHub: Transferring an issue to another repository - <AUTHOR> https://help.github.com/articles/transferring-an-issue-to-another-repository/ <comment><USER2> This is really cool. I've seen a lot of third party tool use for issue transfer, so I'm excited to see this.

One of the cases this doesn't address though, is I've seen third party tools used to copy issues off an abandoned repo onto a fork. The admin-on-both-repos requirement limits the use here. I feel like admin on the repo being read shouldn't be required, it isn't making any changes to it.</comment>


Some startup inspiration: Homes of the world's billionaires - <AUTHOR> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23676776/

<comment><USER2> Maybe it just me, but I never found the huge, marbleized, gold-plated mansions to be particularly appealing. Across the street from where I live, there are rows of multi-million dollar mansions that look like they were ripped right out of Scarface, and I just wonder what the motivation is... Don't get me wrong, I intend to have a nice living arrangement when it's all said and done, but I feel like that amount of luxury would actually detract from the livability.

<comment><USER3> What people like about those places is the idea of living in them.

Unlike physical stuff, ideas can be arbitrarily expensive, so they comprise a lot of what gets sold to the very rich. I suspect practically everyone who owns a Picasso, for example, likes the idea of owning a Picasso more than they like the actual painting.

<comment><USER4> Seth Godin wrote a whole book about this. (All Marketers are Liars, my favorite SG book as it were.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> The great thing about modern life is that the rich no longer live _different_ lives, they just waste a bunch of space they don't live in, glue diamonds to everything, pay more for the same food, and then live pretty much the same as everyone else.

Health care is about the only thing left that challenges this notion and I expect we'll get that worked out in the next 50 years or so.

</comment><comment><USER6> Don't fantasize about a mansion. Fantasize about an excited user.

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=74030>

<comment><USER7> I know that wasn't intended to sound salacious, but it does!

<comment><USER6> Only to you, sanj. :-)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> They are atrocious. If I had a billion dollars, I would build something like this:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuschwanstein>

(Actually, that is practically the perfect example of atrocious living quarters, but if you're going to do bombast, do it right.) If I had 10s of millions, I would pick up one of these, which are sometimes surprisingly cheap:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C3%A2teau>

</comment><comment><USER9> If material goods are any motivation, I personally think this is far better to visualize:

<http://www.yafanet.com/pics_news/2007-11/ferrari599_4.jpg>

:-)

<comment><USER3> <http://www.eclipseaviation.com>

<comment><USER9> killing me man... my profit targets just got pushed up from $300,000 to $3,000,000! :-) The Moller Skycar (www.moller.com) is also an exciting project, although I don't know when it will hit mass market.

<comment><USER10> The Skycar is an awesome concept. I have been keeping track of it for a few years now. They are already mass producing the m200 flying saucer that only carries one person to fund the development of the Skycar.

<comment><USER11> Moller Aerospace is based here in Davis, and I don't see any signs of them mass-producing anything.

As far as I know, he has a single prototype which may or may not hover when attached by a wire to a crane. There was a press release about six months ago which said they were entering production, but as far as I know it hasn't happened.

<comment><USER12> He was sued by the SEC in 2003 for making false claims about his product (among other things). Considering he has been working on it for 40 years, it's probably all a scheme to relieve investors of their money.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> There is definitely not a good correlation between high wealth and high taste (especially given the picture of the first house). But I would love to be proved wrong by some increasingly wealthy Ycers here :)

</comment><comment><USER14> No mention of this guy? <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6712605.stm>

<comment><USER15> That doesn't inspire me at all.

<comment><USER16> Buffett inspires me...the rest turn my stomach.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> How about Dilbert's Ultimate House? <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=141389></comment>


Iterator-based Microthreading - <AUTHOR> http://mjhutchinson.com/journal/2010/02/01/iteratorbased_microthreading <comment><USER2> This looks very similar to Lua's coroutines:

<http://www.lua.org/pil/9.html>

(click through on a right-arrow on that page and the pages following it to get more details and see some examples)</comment>


Ask HN: Is it significant the Who's hiring thread has lower volume this month? - <AUTHOR> Could it be an early indicator of a recession starting?  What other causes might there be? <comment><USER2> I've been tracking whoishiring for a few years now at [http://www.ryan- williams.net/hacker-news-hiring-trends](http://www.ryan-williams.net/hacker- news-hiring-trends). Let's see how it plays out after a few days more of postings. There has been an occasional dip but is consistently seasonal (Sep lower than August, Dec lower than Nov). March has historically been fairly flat month when compared to Feb, so I'll definitely keep an eye on it.

</comment><comment><USER3> If you go by comments, the latest (March 2017) post was created 13 hours ago and has 720+ comments.

Looking at HN Search [1] and sorting by popularity and then looking at the comments, you can see Jan and Feb 2017 are on the first page with 900+ and 1200+ comments and March 2017 is on the second page.

So far so good if you're going to use it as an indicator :)

[1] [https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byPopularity&prefix=false&page=...](https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byPopularity&prefix=false&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story&query=who%20is%20hiring)

</comment><comment><USER4> You typically need to wait a full day. It's gained 100 comments over the last few hours already.

</comment><comment><USER5> That would be a decent lead indicator for a very narrow sector of the economy. I would love to see a count of hiring posts vs time.

Edit: Too good of an idea to not be done already [http://www.ryan- williams.net/hacker-news-hiring-trends/2017/...](http://www.ryan- williams.net/hacker-news-hiring-trends/2017/february.html)

<comment><USER6> Quick glance shows feb 2027 (yellow line) highest ever?

<comment><USER7> We are anticipating great things that year.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> _What other causes might there be?_

Regression to the mean?</comment>


Ask HN: What ergonomic solutions are you using? - <AUTHOR> I'm at the point in my career where I am starting to feel ergonomic pain from keyboard use - my left forearm has this weird tingly sensation.  There's an overwhelming amount of products and information out there about ergonomics, and I'm not sure where to start.  What do you do or use to prevent or treat pain related to computer use? <comment><USER2> For me personally, it's about change what to focus. I used to feel ache and pain on the shoulder and wrist. I've tried a lot of kind of keyboard, mouse, mousepad, wristpad, etc. Still not really helpful.

One day I suspect that those pain are result of my overall bad health(from sitting in front of screen for years and years) and have little to no exercise at all and not just single cause, and decide that I had enough and start training everyday in the morning — getting stronger, fitter, lift weight, loss weight, eat better, drink more water, more sleep. less stress — all kind of things I never to before in my life. I'm the worst person when comes to exercise, but feel I have to change my habit, or else I'll deep in this life of pain forever.

I found that's work for me! I don't feel pain anymore, I feel much fitter and healthier overall. Better than any ergonomics keyboard or mouse out there.

Anyway, good tools is still better than bad tools I guess.

For keyboard, I used to use tenkeyless Logitech gaming keyboard. Good keyboard, but I found that it is too big for my hand and have to stretch my pinky finger to reach the modifier keys all the time, which made my hand sore after just a few hours. I then switch to another quality keyboard: the Apple Magic keyboard and really happy about it since it have a lot less key travel. Really good keyboard except the weird directional key layout that need to get used to.

</comment><comment><USER3> Frequent breaks and regular exercise.

I realise this isn't really 'ergonomics' but they help so much I have to recommend them. The body is not designed to sit for hours on end.

</comment><comment><USER4> As someone who first had carpal tunnel symptoms at the age of eight I have spent a fair amount of time on this problem.

Check the temperature of your working environment. Cold joints can be the cause of or exacerbate various issues. Wearing gloves may help if you can't control the climate. A personal heater can be another good option, but make sure the heat is indirect (pointed at a wall for example) to avoid other issues from prolonged exposure.

I use a keyboard arm with negative incline positioned at a height so that my elbows are at 90° and my wrists point slightly downward. (Height of the keys relative to the wrist rest should be as close to equal as possible.) This is the opposite of what most people do with the terrible kickstands that come with keyboards. I find that the more negative incline I can get the better. My current setup allows for 20-30° Of downward wrist incline. A typical keyboard tray or palm rest will not do this, as the height from the desktop must be adjustable and it must hold the keyboard in place. Mine grips the keyboard to hold it in place.

I personally find that a trackpad is good at preventing some rsi because you can use it in a variety of positions and it forces you to stretch all of your fingers when it is below the keyboard. For my keyboard arm I designed and 3d printed a mount for an apple magic trackpd that holds it below the keyboard making it much like a laptop. This had the added benefit of keeping my fingers on home row which is more efficient.

Remapping modifiers on the keyboard is extremely helpful for reducing strain on some fingers. Things like spacemacs or ergodox which use thumbs are great. Vim keybindings help a lot too and I have almost everything vimified.

Having a large (40"+ for 4k) monitor prevents you from leaning in to read small text or "hunching over" the keyboard. (poor elbow and back alignment) The same can be done by using a larger font or lower resolution at the cost of more keystrokes for navigating long files or between apps.

Taking breaks and changing positions frequently helps of corse. (Use a sit stand desk, try kneeling on a soft mat occasionally if your desk goes low enough.)

Drink a lot of water. Hydration helps almost any bodily issue to some extent and I find that my productivity is significantly impacted by dehydration and greatly increased when I drink a lot. Soda is fine but offset the dehydration from it with extra water. This has the added benefit of forcing you to take breaks.

</comment><comment><USER5> Something that has made my wrists a little more comfortable during long typing sessions is putting down the little feet on the back of my keyboard. Even though this "feature" was designed to improve ergonomics, and many people I know use it, it can make your wrists uncomfortable and is not usually smart to use.

<comment><USER6> Afaik these feet were designed to help people with less typing skill to easier read the keys. For ergonomics the keyboard should actually be tilted backwards to reduce strain on the wrists.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> \- Kinesis Advantage USB keyboard. (The only ergonomic layout keyboard with mechanical switches when I bought it).

\- A trackball that is 'semi-vertical' in orientation. I use logitech's M570. I am considering switching to a fully vertical orientation trackball or a vertical mouse.

\- A significant help was having an ergonomic specialist visit my desk at work and help me understand how to sit correctly, how to adjust the chair correctly, at what height the monitor ought to be set up etc. Most of my pains went away after this.

\- Another factor to bear in mind is that no amount of 'conscious effort' will help maintain posture as much as a few minutes of exercises done regularly. When I do some basic compound movements even with light-weights, my posture naturally gets better without me even having to think about it.

</comment><comment><USER8> A Kinesis Freestyle keyboard, which is split but otherwise a standard layout. Mine is angled/tented so both halves are higher in the middle.

An Evoluent VerticalMouse.

Between the 2 products, my wrists, forearms, and elbows stay in totally natural positions. My wrists don't need to bend at all to type or mouse.

<comment><USER9> I do this setup too. I put the vertical mouse in the middle of the keyboard halves. The keyboard helps alleviate most of my wrist pain and the mouse pretty removed my elbow pain. I only get flare ups if I sit poorly or use just my laptop keyboard for long periods (like if I travel or house sit for someone).

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> I lowered my desks so that I am sitting with my thighs horizontal (feet flat on the floor) and my forearms horizontal.

I refuse to use keyboards that have palmrests that reach far enough to negatively impact my wrists. I also greatly prefer palm rests that have a rounded front edge.

At the same time, when using a traditional computer keyboard (not a laptop), I have a palmrest that lines up with the heels of my palms.

I switched to lower profile keys that have accurate and comfortable registration.

Back when I was in cubeland, I deliberately got up and moved around every half hour or so, unless I managed to gain intent focus (not so easy, in cubeland).

</comment><comment><USER11> I experienced pain on my wrists after prolonged hours with MacBook Pro(2017), no tingly sensation.

I have since switch to the Logitech MX Ergo trackball mouse along with a mechanical keyboard (silent reds and topre works well for me)

</comment><comment><USER12> \- 1 large 34 inch screen (height adjustable)

\- good chair for back strength (takes some time to sit on this a whole day): Löffler Rodeo, [https://www.pape-rohde.de/produkt/872/loeffler- sedlo-1-m-sit...](https://www.pape-rohde.de/produkt/872/loeffler- sedlo-1-m-sitzhocker- rodeo?gclid=EAIaIQobChMItr7ivuqU3wIVxOF3Ch0hqACQEAQYAiABEgK4APD_BwE)

\- Trackball mouse: Logitech M570 (makes work even faster and you are more accurate)

\- Kinesis Advantage 2 Keyboard + wristpads

Best start for me was the chair + getting away from bad isolated window

</comment><comment><USER13> A scarf that I use to support my forearms. My doctor said that I was pressing to hard on the table with my forearms and pressed on the cubital nerve and that gave me the tingling sensation you describe.

</comment><comment><USER14> I highly recommend that you see a physical therapist. That's when my situation started improving.

An ergonomist recommended this mouse to me and it's been really good for me (better than the Logitech MX Master I had been using): [https://handshoemouse.com](https://handshoemouse.com).

Also, setting my desk height properly helped, I think. It's hard to find desks that are low enough but I bought an Ikea adjustable height desk that goes low enough so that my elbow is level with my hands when typing.

<comment><USER15> How's your precision with that thing?

From the photo it looks like I'd be mousing with arm muscles instead of finger/wrist.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> I've found ergorest forearm supports work, along with a keyboard without a number pad to reduce mouse reach.

I've swapped between various split keyboards over the years, starting with the beta version of the Microsoft Natural keyboard - sadly most of these have a number pad and that creates a mouse reach issue for some. These days I use a ten key less gaming keyboard.

Also small free weights to exercise arms frequently during the day at the desk seem to help.

</comment><comment><USER17> Look into stretching exercises. This video saved me from debilitating hand and wrist pain. I'm sure there are similar exercises you can perform for forearm, elbow, shoulder, etc..

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUyMNyrOHJQ&list=FLm2_1OPWIx...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUyMNyrOHJQ&list=FLm2_1OPWIx9ViNjUdjM7b7w&index=2)

</comment><comment><USER18> I am thinking of buying a vertical mouse due to mild pain in my right wrist. But I have found that using the mouse with your weaker arm (left, in my case) for 2-3 days alleviates the pain for a while.

Of course, when I am travelling, I use my MacBook Pro 2017, and it just simply sucks when it comes to ergonomics.

</comment><comment><USER19> Cheap microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 (hands tilt down rather than up when typing).

i should probably sort out some kind of standing / kneeling desk, been ignoring ergonomic desk setup after changing job a few months ago.

</comment><comment><USER20> Used to have very bad hand pain.

Tools to fix it:

Fully standing desk

Kinesis Freestyle Edge split keyboard

Logitech trackball mouse

Weight Lifting Gym membership

</comment><comment> magic-chicken I use a keyboard with no numpad, it is less wide than a standard keyboard and allows my arms to stay parralel to my body. I also use a vertical mouse with a trackball to help with wrist pain.

<comment><USER21> I do this as well, specifically an 84 key keyboard. It still has home, page up, page down, and arrow keys but it's less wide than a typical tenkeyless.

<comment><USER22> Just to add a (far?) more extreme take on this:

I use a 48 key keyboard (an OLKB Planck) which massively cuts down on hand travel and typing strain. Arrow and navigation keys, a numpad, all the function keys, every symbol I use whem programming, and various OS controls (volume, media controls, screen brightness, etc.) are all easily reachable without changing the position of my hands. I also chose to program all the modifier keys to work both as normal when held down and in a similar fashion to sticky keys when just tapped. For example, holding down shift and typing a letter works as normal, but hitting shift followed by a letter accomplishes the same result, meaning that capital letters and punctuation don't really interrupt the flow of typing or require chording.

I also have rather resistive keyswitches (nominally 185g, ~170g in actuality) which was of ergonomic benefit to me. I wouldn't expect it to help most people, but it helped me learn to type without bottoming out the switches. Starting out, the heavier springs caught me before reaching the bottom. Now I type in a much gentler fashion, even if peak force is greater than on a standard keyboard.

Moving down to 48 keys can seem intimidating, but I adjusted rather quickly. It only took me about a couple weeks to become comfortable with the layout changes (staggered keys to a grid layout and Workman instead of QWERTY). I believe that part of the reason it was such an easy transition was because I changed the layout whenever I had trouble adjusting to it. I had wanted to place the underscore on the same key as F in a QWERTY layout to make typing snake_case identifiers easier, but kept hitting the adjacent equals key instead. I could have pushed through it, but I embraced what my brain clearly felt was right whenever a similar thing happened and picked up the layout much quicker than I expected.

Another common concern is losing competence with a normal keyboard or standard layout, but at least in my case that hasn't been an issue. I can switch back and forth between a 2013 Macbook QWERTY keyboard and my customized one with no issues, and I often switch from QWERTY to Workman on my laptop depending on how much I'm writing. Occasionally I'll switch layouts mid-sentence when I realize I'll be going into more depth than I expected.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> I added two atlases under my monitor which seemed to solve all my problems. Obviously there's a ton of variables, I'm just sharing that sometimes it doesn't take much to fix.

</comment><comment><USER24> Sit/stand desk, Ergodox (I have a loud clicky one with backlit keys for home use and a quiet one with no lights for travel), and an Aeron + a 3rd party headrest.

</comment><comment><USER15> Get a split keyboard! It feels so loose and natural after you get used to it. Downside: going back to a normal keyboard (or a laptop) feels bad.

</comment><comment><USER25> Monitor suspended directly above bed on a framework. (Eyes pointed nearly straight up, therefore.) Elbows resting on bed.

<comment><USER26> Do you do this out of medical necessity or is it simply what you've found to be most ergonomic?

I find this configuration very interesting. Had not heard of this before, but would be very interested in trying it out.

<comment><USER25> Neck problems made it inevitable, after a traffic accident several years ago. I'm okay walking, pretty much, but not sitting.

<comment><USER25> However, it's been great for my shoulders, arms and hands as well. Having your upper arms pinned, comfortably by gravity and still helps a lot.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> A posture brace, my posture is pretty terrible at 33 and lifetime of being on a computer.

</comment><comment><USER28> I am using a kneeling chair and a trackball instead of a traditional mouse.

</comment><comment><USER29> -MS Ergo 4000 for the last 5 years -Ergo monitor stand -Anker vertical mouse

</comment><comment><USER30> Rest sometimes. That's all.</comment>


Jeep Dealer's $50k Sticker Shock Captures Auto Sales Stress - <AUTHOR> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gm-ford-t-shake-anguish-145336365.html <comment><USER2> APM Marketplace just did an excellent piece yesterday covering this. Go to 11 minutes in.

TLDR Middle class stretching (through the use of credit, in this case longer duration auto loans) as purchasing power declines due to wage stagnation.

[https://www.marketplace.org/shows/marketplace/maybe-its- not-...](https://www.marketplace.org/shows/marketplace/maybe-its-not-a- recession-after-all/)</comment>


Survivorship bias: understanding the case studies that make everything look easy - <AUTHOR> https://alexdenning.com/survivorship-case-studies-easy/ <comment><USER2> This is interesting. The obvious problem is it's natural to ask successful people how they became successful. That said, taking advice with a larger grain of salt and asking more difficult questions as you suggest and about "why, did this really work?" is definitely valuable.</comment>


Ask HN: Can Apple watch be used to detect Corona? - <AUTHOR> Just a curiosity. Can Apple watch or a similar medical band be used to detect Corona infection before symptoms start showing? Idea is to ask everyone remotely in contact with an infected person or everyone who is coming from abroad. It feeds by minute data to some central service which uses AI/ML or some boring data analysis to detect if a person is infected. Assumption is virus may have some subtle impact on BP, sweating, heart beats or oxygen level anything that can be detected by such a band couple of days before symptoms are human observable.<p>Is the idea already tested, in testing? or is it batshit crazy (⌐■_■)? <comment><USER2> There are zillions of things that impact BP, sweating, heart beats or oxygen level (being in love, for example, to mention a cause from the other end of the spectrum), and they heavily vary during the day. It will at best be very, very hard to filter them out, and likely will require having months of measurements for each person.

If you try hard enough I would guess you can get statistically significant data out of it in areas where a significant portion of the public is infected, but it's a huge step from there to diagnostically significant data, with both few enough false positives and few enough false negatives.

</comment><comment><USER3> Get a simple pulse oximeter.

Telemonitoring symptomatic coronavirus patients requires thermometer and pulse oximeter.

Google

[https://www.healthleadersmedia.com/clinical-care/how- health-...](https://www.healthleadersmedia.com/clinical-care/how-health- system-treated-us-coronavirus-patient-1-has-responded)

[https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/13/hospitals-using-digital- tool...](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/13/hospitals-using-digital-tools-to- reduce-coronavirus-crowding.html)

> Patients who are identified as likely positive for COVID-19 in an emergency > department but are not admitted are being sent home with a thermometer and > pulse oximeter to monitor their symptoms at home under the supervision of > the health system's telehealth team.

When temperature raises and blood oxygenation drops you should be rushed to ICU to save your life.

I am sure one can make fancy iOS app for that.

</comment><comment><USER4> See [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22652047](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22652047) for some discussion on using heart rate</comment>


In app purchases - surely wrong in a kid's game? - <AUTHOR> http://brickmark.com/2010/11/in-app-purchases-for-kids/

<comment><AUTHOR> While I can kind of understand why someone might want to pay for virtual goods an app clearly targeted at kids that can potentially make an in-app purchase of tens of dollars with no further authentication is plainly wrong.

Also in the iTunes description the developer states "iOS will keep you logged on for 15 minutes after you download the App. Additional purchases won't require a re-entry of the password during this 15 minutes interval. This is a function of the iOS software _and not within our control_ " (My emphasis)

Any good developer would make sure the UX made it clear when you were making an in-app purchase in an appropriate way. It's not good enough to blame it on iOS.</comment>


D3 scatter chart of AngelList Salaries & Equity - <AUTHOR> http://labs.radiantmachines.com/al/

<comment><USER2> Good to know, this is a very wide range</comment>


Ask HN: Is Your Startup a Side Project or Full Time? - james-fend

Just wanted to see who all is working full-time on a startup and who all is doing it on the side after work. <comment><AUTHOR> Went full-time when 2010 began and stayed like that for one year. As it didn't work, got myself a new job and it became again a side project while I'm saving some money to go full-time again with a new strategy. I'm so glad I've been able to do this every year or so easily...

</comment><comment><USER2> On the side. Can't afford to go head first right now. I am saving up to take a sabbatical in the future. Unfortunately this means I have to hide my work from my employer knowing they can technically lay claim on it despite the fact that all development is done at home.

</comment><comment><USER3> Side project because I have a family I need to feed. If I were on my own, I'd probably chance it as full time for as long as I could. I will say I plan make the plunge to full time as soon as I have enough saved from the day job to survive several months to a year.

</comment><comment> alok-g Don't all the people here with side projects have IP issues with their employers? How many of you have IP related contracts signed with their employers? My understanding is that most technical companies make you sign such contracts.

</comment><comment><USER4> I'm part time right now, but will be starting full time in January. Wish me luck!

If anyone has the karma for it, (I don't) maybe we could get a poll started? This would work well as a poll.

<comment> james-fend <\-- total newb at HN. Ah, I spent a few mins trying to find it, but couldn't, lol. I see why now..

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> My side project is full-time (40+ hours/week on lunarmods.com) for the last 6-months, but I still do part-time freelance work to pay about half the bills.

</comment><comment><USER6> Side project while I finish up my MBA but hope to build enough momentum by the time I am done to jump full time into it.

</comment><comment><USER7> I dropped all side-projects when I went all in on my current startup (bizen.com). I now work on it full-time.

<comment><USER8> By the way, there's a small typo on your front page "Bizen is a web-based business-intellegence".

<comment><USER7> Are you saying business-intelligence should or should not be hyphenated?

We just launched a new website and I don't know if it happened to be hyphenated before.

My wife is a writer and I could see her wanting to hyphenate as a compound modifier, but sine it is such a common phrase, I don't think it should be hyphenated.

<comment><USER8> Oh, not at all. You've written "intellegence".

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Full time, just graduated college in May and have been running my business since I was a sophomore in 2009.

<comment><USER10> Same here .. A year hve oasse now and im in my way :D

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I've got a few little side projects on at the moment, but I'm aiming to make BugMuncher my full time job.

</comment><comment><USER12> working on a few side projects but hoping Sprint.Im will be my full time job in a few months

</comment><comment><USER13> im a side-project guy myself, though i cant wait to be able to work full-time on either my startup/concept or another that im equally passionate about

</comment><comment><USER14> Side project, 2-5 hrs per day on top of the day job

</comment><comment><USER15> side-projects for now..hope to go full time when my spouse gets done with grad school.

</comment><comment><USER16> side-projects. wish i had the guts/savings to go full time.

</comment><comment><USER10> Was my side project durin college, full time once i gratuated like engineer. .. Im in Mex.

</comment><comment><USER17> Very much fulltime, but it began as a side project many moons ago.</comment>


Ask HN: what would you do with a gigabit Internet connection?  - <AUTHOR> What new things could you do, with a symmetrical gigabit Internet connection? Or maybe you live in one of the Kansas Cities, what are you going to do with your gigabit Internet connection? <comment><USER2> I took seven minutes of video today of employees running around the opening day line at the new Apple Store Passeig de Gràcia. Seven minutes of video was 855 MB. It took me over two hours to upload seven minutes of video to youtube using the local DSL service.

When everybody can upload at non-braindead speeds, I'd expect some reddit-like site to pop up with a video commenting mechanism. Higher throughput decreases the amount of forethought you need before starting an upload and increases the time you can iterate over a heavy (space-wise) project/media/project/subject.

</comment><comment><USER3> Its not really what I would do with a gigabit link. There aren't many _servers_ that could supply me with anything that fast nowadays. I think most people would answer something like "...ummm torrent a lot?"

The real interesting stuff happens when _everyone_ has a gigabit link. That's when the cool stuff that no one has even considered starts happening.

<comment><USER4> This is a really great point. Two things that come to mind would be a huge improvement in the gaming industry and with video conferences. I can only imagine a world without observable lag. That would be fantastic.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Stream movies and music 24/7 to myself, my family, my friends and their families, people I meet on the street, vagrants, etc. That and I might even have some bandwidth left over when people are using bittorrent on the network (yeah right).

</comment><comment><USER6> Edit HD videos in the cloud</comment>