Japan eyes startup visa program - <AUTHOR> https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/Policy-Politics/Japan-eyes-startup-visa-program-to-lure-foreign-businesses <comment><USER2> Japan's immigration system seems heavily set up to encourage young people to come, work and then leave.

This startup visa is good for getting a toe-hold on Japan but only targets people out of country. If you live in Japan already (so you might already speak the language and have helpful local knowledge) there aren't any great paths to starting a business without permanent residency. You can't start a side business on a regular work visa. If you change your visa to manage the business and the startup failed you are likely to be "directed to return to your home country", losing all the residence time you have accrued so far.

I've been working as an engineer in Japanese startups for the past few years and I'm kept on 1 year visa renewals. On a one year visa you can never apply for permanent residency.

And on top of this, there is the 5 year "technical trainee" visa, which is a means of getting manual labor in the country temporarily without having to publicize it. All the people on this visa do not have university degrees so after their 5 years are up they must return home and have no chance of residence in Japan (outside of marriage).

Of course, Japan is free to set its own laws. If you look at them the message is clear: "Japan wants your work and taxes, but it doesn't want you"

<comment><USER3> _You can 't start a side business on a regular work visa._

You know YC's question "How have you ever hacked a non-technical system?" This is my answer to it. You _can_ start a side business on a regular work visa _if_ the character of your business matches your status of residence _and_ you don't intensify the business to the point where it is undeniable that it is a _business_ as opposed to employment, e.g. by hiring full-time employees.

So, for example, if you were an engineer, and you happened to run a software company on the side, you could convince the Ministry of Justice to accept the argument that you were employed as an engineer by the 個人事業 (sole proprietorship) of you, which (since you have an engineering status of residence) doesn't require their pre-approval, and then (while establishing a record of e.g. tax paying and similar) bootstrap that into a renewal of your status of residence with yourself as the sponsor, and from there roll on to either a management/investor status of residence or one of the other more stable options.

For totally-not-a-lawyer gloss on this I'm happy to chat with anyone; you can make reasonable assumptions as to why I am fairly confident that the MoJ can be convinced to allow this.

<comment><USER4> wait, as a non-citizen of Japan you are allowed to sponsor yourself for a work visa? That sounds, uhh, strange.

<comment><USER5> It's about ensuring you have money, not that you need an invite.

So if you're a freelancer with a bunch of active contracts they let you in.

<comment><USER6> Not let you in, but let you stay. Self-sponsoring only works on a renewal.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> >Based on the New Business Implementation Plan, Fukuoka City officials will conduct a review on the progress of startup businesses founded by entrepreneurs who utilized this system and received approval for his/her Business Manager residential status. There will be three review sessions during the six-month period, of which at least one session will be held either at the entrepreneur's place of business or residence. During the review sessions, the business's bank account, lease for the place of business, and employment contracts may be reviewed. If progress is not satisfactory, Fukuoka City may direct the entrepreneur to return to his/her home country.

Sounds like a lot of biannual headache.

<comment><USER8> Try opening a business bank account in Japan. Or any bank account for that matter. Be prepared to start every handwritten form over if you make even the slightest error, and I hope you've been practicing your kanji. No credit cards or foreign transfers until you've got a few years in your business. Capital requirements. It's a whole different ballgame, for better or worse.

<comment><USER9> Shinsei was easy to work with (for a business account), have English language online banking and telephone support. Never had an issue with foreign transfers.

Does help to have a Japanese friend who can help when opening the account, etc, and it's important to find accounting and legal help that speak English.

<comment><USER10> Shinsei is the most foreigner friendly bank in Tokyo, bar none. They're known for it, and they make their services convenient -- go there.

Initially you might have some trouble with the Address/Phone Number/Bank Account requirements, because they're almost all required at nearly the exact same time, making some weird pseudo requirement stalemate but here's what you do:

1\. Get a place to live (likely through some online agency before you get to japan -- you're gonna pay a premium)

2\. Register with your local ward office, get your foreigner card, which will have your address on the back and your face on the front

3\. Get a phone at UQ Mobile (or whichever carrier will give you one, more choices if you have a longer VISA), IIRC the only real hard requirement is a credit card.

4\. Get a bank account (phone required)

NOTE: some places will even let you pay for your apartment with a credit card

Oh BTW when I did this, I avoided the requirement stalemate by staying with a friend (thus I had a place to "live" at) when I arrived, and a phone number I could use (friend's phone number). It is possible to secure a place to live before you get to japan, there are sites that cater to foreigners for this purpose and will get you set up almost completely before you arrive so you just sign some paperwork when you arrive and have a place to live.

<comment><USER11> IIRC, you now get the "foreigner card" during immigration. You still have to register at the local ward, though.

<comment><USER12> You get the card at the airport, but it's useless without the stamp. Can confirm that the dependency graph stated by the parent is a (the?) correct way to navigate the system. The only thing I'd modify is that you can save money by bringing your own phone, and getting a phone+data SIM card from Bic, which you can set up on a recurring plan with a foreign credit card.

<comment><USER10> Yeah, it's been so long that I actually forgot the proper (I think) way to go through it, and that it was actualy easier for me because I had contacts/friends willing to help.

The problem with the phone+data sim thing is that you need an actual callable phone number, a lot of the time. Also, you can tell what numbers are used for in Japan by how they start: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_numbers_in_Japan#Non...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_numbers_in_Japan#Non- geographic_area_codes) , and some places will be sticklers about it.

One sad/funny thing is that I actually needed a phone number to get a place to live as well, but actually my agent just used their own temporarily (literally right in front of the leasing agent, and they didn't care). I get the feeling that if you get a place from abroad they'll overlook that/work that out somehow, even if you don't have an agent that was as understanding/nice/flexible as mine.

<comment><USER12> Oh, if you have a phone+SIM card from Bic, you get a number. You need a non- tourist visa for that one, though...which means you need the stamped gaijin card.

I never had issues with anyone being snobby about the number, but I was in a bigger city, so maybe I had it easy.

(My sad/funny story was that in order to _cancel_ the recurring phone payment, I needed to receive a text message to the phone number I was cancelling. But I had left the country by that point, and the SIM didn't work for international SMS. So I was screwed. I just told my credit card company to reject the recurring billing, and thus I'm probably blackballed from all future SIM-card purchasing in Japan.)

<comment><USER13> Could you have mailed the SIM back to a friend in Japan?

<comment><USER12> Probably, but I'd have to explain the whole thing and do international postage and whatnot, and it wasn't worth the hassle.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Same story as always: you take the risk, invest your time and break up your life. If it works you are welcome to stay. If it doesn't work you get cut loose and you likely will take years to recover whereas the other side hasn't risked a thing.

These kind of propositions only make sense if you have nothing to lose.

<comment><USER5> If your passport isn't from the right country you might have nothing to lose.

If you have decided to move to some other country, and are looking for the place with the least legal headaches for immigration, _and have a college degree_, then Japan is probably the best on that metric.

You don't have the uncertainty of the green card lottery (the permanent residency requirements are pretty well defined), no employer-based indentured servitude (you can change jobs easily on any visa), and if you are not doing unconventional jobs there's not much issue.

There's of course the cultural difficulties, and the initial difficulty finding an employer for initial sponsorship (though these sorts of visas are trying to make this easier). But the country has a high quality of life and you can carve out your own bubble without having the fear of getting your life uprooted due to legal issues.

<comment><USER15> This pretty much describes all countries aside from US

<comment><USER5> My understanding is that it's not trivial to get a visa in the EU as well, due to it being Shengen Zone stuff.

Even for simple trips, my Chinese friends in particular have to jump through hoops.

I also remember a scandal in France a while back when the gov't decided it didn't like foreign students staying to work in France after graduating, so changed rules to make it harder for people to stay afterwards.

<comment><USER16> > My understanding is that it's not trivial to get a visa in the EU as well, > due to it being Shengen Zone stuff.

Work permits for non-EU immigrants are issued at the national level and have very little to do with Schengen. Requirements vary quite a bit across Europe.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I don't think Italy is a great place to do business, but it's a good place to live in many ways. They've got something similar that might be of interest to the right person [http://italiastartupvisa.mise.gov.it/#ISVhome](http://italiastartupvisa.mise.gov.it/#ISVhome)

<comment><USER18> That website is compeltrly broken on mobile. Is there another link with a summary of the program.

(The link jumps erratically, and completely breaks the back button)

<comment><USER17> Uh, you want to live in Italy, you'd better get used to shitty government web sites ;-)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Just curious, anyone knows what's the advantage of starting up in Japan over say, Singapore? I know Singapore is predominantly English-speaking, you get all kinds of food and the laws are friendly to startups as well.

If I'm an English speaker in Japan, there is a huge language barrier, on top of which there are also other minor nuances to be paid attention to such as: high rent (depends on your area), finding Non-Japanese food and so forth.

Anyone with insights into the contrasts between both these countries, would love to hear :)

<comment><USER20> I have lived and created startups in Japan and Singapore. Japan is the much larger mature market compared to Singapore. If you can penetrate it you have good business for decades. But the barriers of entry are really really high. Both markets are expensive to live, but Singapore still has a huge influx on really cheap labor (~500 SGD per month) and cheaper corporate services (legal, accounting, shared co-working, etc)

<comment><USER21> Slightly off topic, what about startup, business and market in Malaysia?

I am from Malaysia, but now studying in Japan. Not sure if it worth it to struggle starting a business or working in Japan after graduating.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Good luck with that. I would advise against it having been stationed in Japan, in Yokosuka, on the first Nuclear vessel forward deployed ever. It's an awesome place for tourists but it will never be a place that anyone who is not 100% Japanese can call home. You will always be an outside over there.

<comment><USER23> Of course soldiers are considered outsiders. I doubt people stationed in Korea or Germany will be going on about how they felt like true locals either.

The biggest hurdle is the language barrier. People treat you like kids when they think you're just a typical tourist, but once you're past that hurdle, it quickly gets to the, "How can you not know this basic thing? All of us Japanese know it" point. At that point, you're the one reminding them that you're a foreigner.

<comment><USER24> Actually the US Forces-Germany relationship is pretty strong, and during the Cold War was even stronger. There were a lot of the permanent party at places like Landstuhl who were fairly embedded in off post activities.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Slightly off topic. But this Japanese program sounds totally dressing and covered in tape. If you work remote and are completely self sufficient is there any country that will just let you live there?

<comment><USER26> Thailand, for sure.

<comment><USER27> It was never officially approved in Thailand, and now it's officially illegal: [https://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/work/693976/visa- runs-n...](https://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/work/693976/visa-runs-now- illegal-for-tourists-say-police) \- I know people are still doing it, and I know of very public enforcement for a very short time (probably done to make a statement).

YMMV.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> Wait, what are the benefits apart from 'we let you stay here and do your business and here are some lawyers and maybe a good word here and there'? This is absurd.

<comment><USER29> It's safe. There are fewer homicides in the entire country of 125 million than just the city of Chicago each year.

<comment><USER30> Yes, very safe indeed. It can be quite fun when you are in your 20s, if you live in big urban centers (night life, etc.) - but it's also an impenetrable society. Not being Japanese will place barriers around you in many aspects of the society, sooner or later (even if you are fluent in the language). It's important to be aware of this.

<comment><USER31> Do you mind expanding on this? I'm curious about what barriers will be put up, as I've thought about moving there.

<comment><USER30> I can elaborate - contact me via PM.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> > During the review sessions, the business's bank account, lease for the place > of business, and employment contracts may be reviewed. If progress is not > satisfactory, Fukuoka City may direct the entrepreneur to return to his/her > home country.

Thanks, but I didn't move out of my parents' house just to recreate the experience in Japan...

</comment><comment><USER33> France has the same thing, valid for 4 years. [http://visa.lafrenchtech.com/](http://visa.lafrenchtech.com/)

<comment><USER34> Yes but why would you ever want to move there to create a startup?

Not only you have to deal with enterprise related problems such as fiscal instability (rules changes almost every years, see for example how the auto- entrepreneur status changed over time), the URSSAF, a bureaucratic and slow administration but you have also to deal with a lot of issues on a personal level such as insecurity, terrorism, frequent riots and strikes, the administration (yes, again), ...

No really, as a French and as someone who tried a minimal thing with the easiest available status, I don't understand how my country can be attractive. I would rather deal with the Japanese administration, which asks for ridiculous amount of documents but does its job. And a country with working services (transports, post) is also a big plus.

<comment><USER35> Did you ever work in another country? I work in Germany with colleagues from many different countries, and our country does not suck.

The French post is one of the best in the World, train delays are the same in France as in Germany (shall we compare with the situation in the US?), the administration is a PITA but they actually try to help instead of killing you (+ the number of organisms to help startups in France is very high).

Terrorism in France is a minimal cause of deaths compared to what happens in the US due to firearms. The fiscal instability is getting better with our current government (we know what is coming, not like in the US), the number of riots is low but they are highly mediatized.

I am honestly surprised by this comment, would have expected it from someone not living in France. Compared to the UK and USA, France is a safer place to create your startup right now if you are a foreigner.

The language is a pain and there are other alternatives (Canada, Singapore, Hong Kong, Germany) but if you want a country in the Western World that tries to help you instead of making everything possible to have you back at the border, France is attractive.

PS: If you ask « Why is it attractive? »: Paris is full of investors/incubators, young people do speak English, people in the startup environment interact a lot and you will find mates to work and speak about your issues easily. Paris has two major airports (compared to Germany with old airports in Berlin and a too small one in Hamburg) + train stations to go everywhere (i.e. London, Bordeaux, Lyon).

<comment><USER34> > Did you ever work in another country?

Yes. I'm currently working in another country and I've been studying in Japan for a year. So I have few points of comparison.

Terrorism is not just a question of numbers. The problem is more about how the government handle the matter. When you read things like terrorists getting welfare[1] for years, the fact they can keep the nationality[2] and returnees jihadists from Syria will be welcomed[3], in addition to no state reaction after Charlie (which lead to the Bataclan event), no real proactive mesures against 15 000 people suspected of terrorism acquaintance or support[4], the problem is not current terrorism, it is the future. Because almost nothing is done against it and you can except to see the trend of multiples attacks per year (or month, Europe wise) to continue for years.

Should I mention that if you ever got red-handed in a terrorist plot you're only sentenced to maximum 10 years of prison[6], that can be further reduced for "good behavior"? It's even creating more of them actually.[7] And that hosting them is not even considered prosecutable?[8] And let's not dive in rabbit hole of the hundreds of salafist mosques that can preach hate against the French in total impunity.

It also have impact on daily life. Multiples subway stations are closed for hours everyday because of suspicious bags, the train station like Gare du Nord are closed and rushed by the police on a regular basis.

Anyway I could simply have started my post with a question, like you did: did you ever had a friend got shot in a terror attack?

I guess not, otherwise you would not just speak about numbers.

[1] [https://francais.rt.com/international/44967-2-millions- deuro...](https://francais.rt.com/international/44967-2-millions-deuros- fraude-allocations-djihadistes) [2] [http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/le- scan/2016/03/30/25001-20...](http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/le- scan/2016/03/30/25001-20160330ARTFIG00296-decheance-de-nationalite-un-abandon- en-six-actes.php) [3] [http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite- france/2017/11/09/01016-201...](http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite- france/2017/11/09/01016-20171109ARTFIG00310-retour-de-djihadistes-macron- prone-le-cas-par-cas-pour-les-femmes-et-les-enfants.php) [4] [https://www.valeursactuelles.com/politique/15-000-fiches- s-p...](https://www.valeursactuelles.com/politique/15-000-fiches-s-pour- radicalisation-85661) [5] [https://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/societe/justice/filiere- dj...](https://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/societe/justice/filiere-djihadiste- de-strasbourg-7-a-9-ans-de-prison-en-appel-pour-les-prevenus_1906331.html) [6] [https://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/societe/justice/filiere- dj...](https://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/societe/justice/filiere-djihadiste- de-strasbourg-7-a-9-ans-de-prison-en-appel-pour-les-prevenus_1906331.html) [7] [http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash- actu/2017/03/30/97001-20170330F...](http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash- actu/2017/03/30/97001-20170330FILWWW00068-les-prisons-principales-sources-de- radicalisation.php) [8] [http://www.lemonde.fr/attaques-a- paris/article/2016/05/26/ja...](http://www.lemonde.fr/attaques-a- paris/article/2016/05/26/jawad-le-logeur-devrait-echapper-aux-poursuites-pour- terrorisme_4926700_4809495.html)

<comment><USER36> [1] is from Russia Today, so I'll abstain from commenting

[2] is true, but it should be noted that this is standard procedure in the West, since citizenship is considered one the most inalienable rights (in Germany, loss of citizenship only occurs through taking another one; in the US, it's only possible for naturalized citizens to lose their citizenship if they commit terrorism within 5 years of being naturalized).

[3] the article does not say that djihadis will be welcomed.

[4] is standard procedure in the West. You can't detain people who don't even stand accused, unless you're the US and have absolutely no concern about egregiously violating your constitution (and human rights). And tracking 15,000 people is beyond what any police force can do.

[5][6] it is generally not a good idea to comment on criminal trials, since you have access to very little compared to the judges and jury. It's also unclear that detention is a good solution to the problem anyways.

[7] is perfectly correct.

[8] it is considered prosecutable, this person is on trial. Also see [6], and again, unless you have a very good reason to think the accused actually knew he was hosting terrorists (which the judges, who have access to far more information that you do, don't), there's nothing visibly wrong about that trial.

Finally,

> Anyway I could simply have started my post with a question, like you did: > did you ever had a friend got shot in a terror attack? > > I guess not, > otherwise you would not just speak about numbers.

It's not with strong feelings that you'll make good policy. It's very sad that people die, but it's no good reason to drop all common sense.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> Why on earth would anyone move to Japan ?

You get treated like shit, get paid shit, do shitty work, and work under morons whose only qualification is the ability to speak Japanese and bullshit in English... and this for Machine Learning. I can't imagine the things one has to put up with for more vanilla jobs.

Moving to Tokyo must be one of the biggest regrets of my life. I'd look for Singapore or India even, compared to 'grorious Nippon'.

<comment><USER38> Sounds like your employer is pretty shitty (and to be fair, Japan has more than its fair share of shitty employers), but that's an attribute of your company, not Japan itself. And if you're coming over on a startup visa, it's your company and you set the rules.

All that said, it's hard to people with no connection to Japan opting to start up in Japan -- as patio11 notes, doing so without fluent Japanese is playing life in hard mode.

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> Is a 1 year visa long enough to do anything serious?

<comment><USER40> It's probably long enough to get a company to the point where the company can sponsor you for a longer term visa.

<comment><USER41> Can confirm this is true. It was easy enough for me to sponsor myself after the company was setup.

In my case my first hire helped us set it up, and then he handed director over to me. You obviously have to do this with someone you trust. Would not recommend this for every situation.

Edit: I obviously hit a nerve here somewhere. I stand by my position here. Get the right legal help. I can say it was a pain to find but once I did the process was smooth. It's not impossible like people make it out to be. Any process has bumps.

Don't be crazy and do it yourself though.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> As an "entrepreneur" (closer to a freelancer/independent contractor, self employed through a company I created) that's currently living in Japan, a few notes:

\- Things get a lot easier when a Japanese person is involved.

\- Paperwork pain will be real, hire someone else to do it. Japan is almost completely about the _appearance_ of propriety -- getting everything filled out properly is 90% of the difficulty.

\- Hire a cheap japanese accountant, at least for the first year. Once you have your feet under you, then look into how to use the efiling system (most accountants just do this for you anyway, japan has an absurd amount of their taxes filed electronically, despite their paper-heavy seeming nature). ([https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/Policy- Politics/Jap...](https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/Policy- Politics/Japan-to-make-electronic-tax-filing-mandatory-for-businesses))

\- Initial capital requirements are a thing, you can actually get away with a fairly small amount though, like 10/20k USD -- this is impossible in countries like the US where you need millions to even get in the H1-B LOTTERY (so even if you get in, you still maybe don't win). Japan is surprisingly lax, and I think they've been this way -- it's not even a recent change.

\- You will never be completely trusted as a foreigner in Japan, nor will you ever completely fit in.

\- Japan is VERY easy to live in, even for someone who doesn't speak Japanese. While this is true, you should strive to speak japanese if you live in Japan -- your experience will be severely limited otherwise.

\- There's a monthly HN meeting here that's not half bad ([https://hntokyo.doorkeeper.jp/events/upcoming](https://hntokyo.doorkeeper.jp/events/upcoming))

\- Japan's tech skill is low. While I expect people on HN to know a little more, the mainstream media often only catches a whiff of japan at the peak of it's technical prowess (robots in Kyoto, interesting breakthroughs, etc), but the vast majority of businesses here are WOEFULLY inefficient and have not embraced technology and the current rush to build good technical knowledge. Sending a fax for business purpose (like for example your startup sending a fax to another company to get them to perform some function) is a thing that people actually expect you to do here, while offering no API alternative or anything.

\- The japanese market is NOT your home market, and not even some generic "global/international market". Japan is 95%+ ethnic japanese, and this makes it a complete different ballgame. If you've never been, learning how the culture works (what makes a "salaryman" a "salaryman"). Funnily enough, if you're a huge company (FB, Google, etc), then you actually CAN treat japan as just another global/international market, because name recognition has already pierced the japanese public and if the association is good (fashionable/smart/innovative/trend-setting foreign brand) then they'll buy what you're selling without much thought.

\- Fiber is very cheap and accessible, the intra-country connections are blazing fast, but the connections to the outside world (like the USA) can be slow.

\- The NHK fee is a thing, look it up and decide what you want to do before you come over (I wish someone had told me).

\- Conglomerates are a huge thing in Japan, there are virtually no anti-trust laws. Companies like Toyota or Yamaha get their fingers in almost everything in Japan.

\- Building trust as a company in japan takes a long time, but is even easier if you seem like a "japanese" company. I'm almost 100% sure that LINE has come as far as it has because people thought it was a japanese company at the beginning ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_(software)#History](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_\(software\)#History)).

\- This startup program looks most enticing for big established companies that want to create a japanese entity. Why would a company need to do that? because Japan's market is completely different, and often just making a branch office won't work.

\- If you have 50K you can get into japan relatively scot-free by getting an investor visa, and likely fast-tracking yourself to a status called "Highly Skilled Professional" with the right job, which can lead to a "permanent resident" visa (you never become a citizen if you're not japanese).

\- The most important thing I can tell you about japan is that it's greatest strength is it's greatest weakness: _just about everyone is in the same "lane"_. When you leave that lane, things get extremely difficult, but if you stay in the lane, everything is smooth and easy. The lane includes things like politeness-by-default, general honesty & propriety, but also includes overly- intense-sometimes-blinding-nationalism (nationalism != patriotism).

There's a lot more I could say, but this list is plenty long (and random) already.

Small plug for myself -- I'm the CTO of an exceptionally small "startup"/consultancy: [https://gaisma.co.jp](https://gaisma.co.jp) (the homepage is in japanese and pretty skint but we mostly write software). If you've got questions about how I got to Japan or how it is, or you've got some cool projects for me to undertake, feel free to get in touch (see my profile or the gaisma page) firstname.lastname@example.com

<comment><USER42> Another nitpick in an otherwise great post:

> You will never be completely trusted as a foreigner in Japan, nor will you > ever completely fit in.

In my experience this is not really true (though if you read it literally, then it is ;-) ). If you speak, read, write and act like a Japanese person, then people will treat you as if you are Japanese. You will fit in. There are racist people in Japan, but not any more than I've seen in any other country. Japanese culture being what it is, you also won't really experience blatant racism out in the open even if you meet racists.

Having said that, attitudes are _much_ different in the big city than the countryside. When I go to Tokyo or Osaka, everyone initially expects me to be a tourist. When I'm at home in rural Shizuoka, everyone expects that I live there (because there aren't a lot of foreign tourists). But even in Tokyo or Osaka after talking to someone for more than about 10 seconds they know that I live permanently in Japan and treat me that way.

My Japanese is not even that good (although I am _very_ fluent in the areas where I have fluency). I rarely make social mistakes any more and people treat me just like they treat everyone else. I fit in here more than I fit in anywhere else in the world.

If you have difficulty fitting in, then it's likely that you're missing some nuance. Since nobody spells it out for you, it's definitely hard to figure out, but not impossible. You just need to watch what other people do in that situation and then start doing the same thing. The other main thing is to feel OK about being Japanese -- which a lot of foreigners don't in my estimation.

<comment><USER10> I actually meant it literally -- you get extremely close to completely fitting in but the problem is, as soon as you travel to a place you've never been to or hang with people you've never met, you're back to step one and you feel like you're on the outside again. This dissonance grates on me (and I think it would on anyone), and there's no one you can really rightfully blame.

This is something that I feel the US really gets right -- once you're an American citizen, you're an American and that's that -- no one generally asks where you're from unless they're trying to get to know you. This might have more to do with how America was formed, because it just _is_ a country made up of a lot of people from other countries in relatively recent history, but it makes sense that Japan can't really do this with how homogenous they are.

There's a ton of nuance, and mileage varies a ton from person to person in their interpersonal interaction in any country which is why I was so literal with what I said -- most people I've met would agree with the literal statement.

<comment><USER42> Fair enough. I agree with the literal statement too, but I think it's a bit misleading for people who don't get the context. For what it's worth, not very many people ask me where I'm from and when they do I say Shizuoka. Nobody has asked the obvious follow up question.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> To add to all the other posts saying that their country offers a similar visa, New Zealand also offers one: [https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/investing-in- nz/visas/entr...](https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/investing-in- nz/visas/entrepreneur-visa)

</comment><comment><USER44> This is quite something because traditionally Japanese culture has been fairly close to foreigners and probably for a good reason. Japanese people are likely the most courteous and honest people in the world. You can leave your luggage in the middle of the road and come back to find it still there. These folks have little experience with foreigners and often even western culture would be too harsh and rowdy for them. Some people are even afraid of impact of foreigners coming down during Olympics.

Overall, this is interesting times when world's supposedly most open country like USA is closing borders to foreign talent while supposedly most closed country opens up their border for the same.

<comment><USER32> That's quite a roundabout way of saying "foreigners are criminals"...

Seriously, I'm extremely deferential to the local customs when I'm abroad. But I felt being pushed into a subway car during rush hour to be quite "harsh and rowdy". Not to mentioned the drunk guys who spit in my faced an laughed.

<comment><USER45> Over the last 15 years I've spent roughly 6 months in Japan, and have never encountered anything other than respect and courtesy, especially if you make an effort to speak the language and respect the cultural customs. I've spent roughly the same amount of time in San Francisco in those years, and I've seen hundreds of cars with shattered windows, dozens of people shitting on the sidewalk, been harassed by crazy people on Market at least 10 times, almost stepped on needles in parks and on sidewalks, etc.

<comment><USER46> Consider that San Francisco is more of an extreme than Tokyo. I've lived in a bunch of "world" cities, including London, Berlin, Paris, SF/Bay Area, Tokyo, and the outlier there is more San Francisco than Tokyo. The only times (yes, plural) I've ever had people die of gunshots on the pavement within 1 block of my house in my life have been in the Bay Area.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> One year is pretty short.

I suspect Japan would have to change a lot of policy if they really wanted to encourage immigrant driven startups to flourish and stay long term.

</comment><comment><USER48> Japan seems like a bad place to try and start a business, given what I've heard about its bureaucracy and hostility towards immigrants.

Is my information correct, or do I need to explore this further?

</comment><comment><USER30> You don't make up for a missing ecosystem of investment by tweaking the visa rules. Japan getting things wrong again.

<comment><USER49> What do you think they should do? This is at least a step in the right direction, and could lead to more of an ecosystem developing.

<comment><USER30> Before anything Japan needs to be a lot more flexible in terms of culture, rather than tweaking the rules to follow the trends. It's like the fool being pointed the moon and looking at the finger.

Cultural changes will not occur in a short timeline, and even more so in Japan where there is deference to age, experience and authority. On top of that in recent years the country has closed itself even more so than let's say 10 years ago (you can see that in politics a lot as well) , and it's not really a positive mindset to be in when you have the ambition of being a global player.

I still think Japan will change, but I expect them to change when they have their back against the wall rather than being very proactive about it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> I wonder if this could be chained together with the working holiday visa.

</comment><comment><USER51> As an aside, how are software engineer salaries in Japan?

<comment><USER38> Absurdly low by Valley standards: 6 million yen a year (~$53k) is normal, senior folks might pull in 10m (~$88k).

<comment><USER52> Additionally, in normal Japanese companies that 6M _is_ the senior salary with starting salaries around the 3M~4M range. A 10M salary is basically a non- starter right off the bat at most places, they'd basically laugh you out the door with that, well, if you got a chance for an interview in the first place, but you wouldn't.

That said, 10M is of course not impossible, but in my experience it is mostly reserved for larger foreign companies, the banking sector or if you somehow manage to get to an executive level. And maybe a handful of very specialized very well funded companies.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> Very rigid policy

</comment><comment><USER54> I can see why these things make sense to legislators and policymakers - but in all pragmatic reality, I'm weary of it actually working.

1) Most startups fail. What happens then? What is the path? Many folks will come from 2cnd-tier economic nations, and don't want to go back. It gets complicated.

2) Investment requirements are easily provided for by people who want to 'buy citizenship' and it's easy enough to hire a few friends/family members, park their money in an account, and pull it out when they are done. The 'businessperson' visa was widely used as a backdoor to a passport in Canada.

It might make sense to make the visa commensurate on $X in a round A or something, but then it all gets very complicated.

It might be just better to have a smart immigration policy to retain top talent across the board in the first place.

It's really not 'founders' that make the business - it's 'the founders and everyone else'.

<comment><USER55> > 1) Most startups fail. What happens then? What is the path? Many folks will > come from 2cnd-tier economic nations, and don't want to go back. It gets > complicated.

Just take the risk and eat the cost. Sometimes investments don't work out. You hope the ones that do make up for it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER56> patio - any thoughts?

</comment><comment><USER57> I eagerly await @patio11's thoughts on all of this. I imagine he's got >0 to say...

</comment><comment><USER58> Good luck finding a place to rent.

<comment><USER41> Silicon valley -> Tokyo expat here. It took me < 2 weeks. This process is hard but not as nightmarish as people who don't live in the country reading articles make it sound.

Just like anything, there's right and wrong ways to do it. If you do it the traditional way with a japanese speaking landlord who mistrust foreigners, yes it can be hard. That is a significant portion of the market.

One thing I will say, there are real estate companies that actually cater to foreigners.

This has been my landlord for a year and I just renewed: [http://tokyoeasyrent.com/en/](http://tokyoeasyrent.com/en/)

There are other companies like this in the space. Look on places like gaijinpot for more information like this: [https://gaijinpot.com/](https://gaijinpot.com/)

It's just like any real estate market, do your research beforehand.

Where I will admit it can be harder is when you want to procure a larger house. They don't tend to ask too many questions for studios (which should be enough for entrepreneurs family aside).

That being said, if you do have family, spend your time finding right place and ask for referrals.

Japan has its downsides but it's by far the best place I have ever lived (especially compared to SF) both food wise and price wise.

<comment><USER59> I've read getting a place to stay has become easier, but I still hear people complain about getting a bank account without help from an employer.

<comment><USER60> Shinsei was extremely easy to get a back account with. I applied online and sent in a few documents and was all setup.

<comment><USER41> Great info thanks! My experience comes from MUFG. Other data points are helpful.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Microsoft Word will change your words to be 'gender inclusive' - <AUTHOR> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2019/05/07/microsoft-word-will-change-words-gender-inclusive/ <comment><USER2> I wonder if that can also be used to combat stylometry.

(or in a more sinister tone, combat stylometry just good enough for most cases but not enough for when faced against actors with a lot of processing power)

</comment><comment><USER3> Good I only use open office xD</comment>


Show HN: CyBranding's Completely Bootstrapped MVP - <AUTHOR> http://www.cybranding.com/hashtags/track/yourtag

<comment><AUTHOR> Author here: Any suggestions for this page, which is mainly aimed at converting users coming from my free website <http://hashtagify.me> ? Of course, any other suggestions or comments are welcome!</comment>


Understanding the Idea of Israeli Land Under Talmudic Law - <AUTHOR> https://archive.today/bUarE

<comment><USER2> Holy cow, this is crazy. How often does stuff like this make it into the public view?

In the USA we'd call this hate literature, although a few would argue.</comment>


Ask HN: Could Kubernetes be written to use alternatives? - <AUTHOR> Kubernetes as it stands is amazingling popular right now.  I've done my fair share of contributions and deployments.  Most deployments are Docker based (there is support for Kata Containers in some cases).  But can it evolve/morph to support more secure non-Linux based mechanisms like FreeBSD Jails or Solaris Zones (yes, Solaris is a dead horse, but a good example)?  People debate the security of a distro a docker image is based on -- Alpine is considered secure, but less so if one needs glibc.<p>I'm just curious if this is a concern and something people are considering?  Linux does not have the same level of primitives to compare to Jails/Zones at this point.  Is it needed, I don't know, but am curious about the options. <comment><USER2> If you need more isolation than is available in regular Docker containers, take a look at some of the alternative container runtimes:

[https://landscape.cncf.io/grouping=landscape&landscape=conta...](https://landscape.cncf.io/grouping=landscape&landscape=container- runtime)

I also found both of these articles illuminating:

[https://cloudplatform.googleblog.com/2018/05/Open- sourcing-g...](https://cloudplatform.googleblog.com/2018/05/Open-sourcing- gVisor-a-sandboxed-container-runtime.html) [https://cloudplatform.googleblog.com/2018/05/Exploring- conta...](https://cloudplatform.googleblog.com/2018/05/Exploring-container- security-Isolation-at-different-layers-of-the-Kubernetes-stack.html)

</comment><comment><USER3> Kubernetes' has a pluggable container interface, called CRI. You can implement non-Docker containers. For example, there's a runtime called Virtlet [1] that runs VMs instead of Docker.

I don't know of anyone working on CRI implementations for FreeBSD jails or Solaris Zones. At the moment, I believe Kubernetes has specific dependencies on Linux in other areas that the container runtime.

[1] [https://www.mirantis.com/blog/virtlet-run-vms-as- kubernetes-...](https://www.mirantis.com/blog/virtlet-run-vms-as-kubernetes- pods/)</comment>


Porting Emacs to Chromebooks and the Web [pdf] - <AUTHOR> https://fosdem.org/2015/schedule/event/emacs_and_elisp_on_the_chromebook/attachments/slides/797/export/events/attachments/emacs_and_elisp_on_the_chromebook/slides/797/FOSDEM_Building_Emacs_with_NaCl.pdf

<comment><USER2> A better URL is [https://fosdem.org/2015/schedule/event/emacs_and_elisp_on_th...](https://fosdem.org/2015/schedule/event/emacs_and_elisp_on_the_chromebook/)

It links to the current URL (the slide deck PDF), as well as a video recording of the presentation, and metadata about the presentation.

</comment><comment><USER3> Normally I wouldn't question the usefulness of a project, but I'm having trouble seeing why this would be worthwhile.

Emacs already runs natively on every operating system for which Chrome also runs, so the portability aspect is not so important. And most of the time you would want to have a shell and even a compiler, so the sandboxing is kind of a problem.

I guess a sandboxed emacs is kind of a strange thing to think about. The trouble with emacs is that it brings in so many dependencies that you are getting dangerously close to replicating a full OS in a browser tab, but then you might as well just use a normal operating system (or a VM).

The idea of a Chromebook that I can run emacs on is really appealing, so much so that I did just that, but used Crouton. I thought I'd mainly be ssh'ing into a server, but actually have done a lot of stuff locally. Chromebooks make a really nice laptop if you can work completely in the shell and browser. It's all very simple.

I could see a use for this for having org-mode available in a browser, that would be useful, but it's a lot of work to go to just for that.

<comment><USER4> > I could see a use for this for having org-mode available in a browser, that > would be useful, but it's a lot of work to go to just for that.

I was thinking this would be wonderful. I am torn between digging into Common Lisp or Clojure, and thought this would be a great first idea.

I am currently stuck with emacs only, but have been playing with MobileOrg for Android. What are you and others doing?

<comment><USER4> Why was child ([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9302857](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9302857)) killed? I thought it was very interesting. Thanks for mentioning, berntb.

<comment><USER5> Because the user is banned, probably for being downvoted too often in his previous flamewar.

<comment><USER4> Oh, that's sad. I had not looked at his history. Always happy to see people put money where their mouths are and put out some code, unlike me of course. I just sit there pontificating.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> If you want to try Emacs running in Chrome (using NaCL):

[https://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/naclports/builds/pe...](https://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/naclports/builds/pepper_41/trunk-253-g089940f/publish/emacs/glibc/emacs/emacs.html)

You have to go to chrome://flags/ and enable "Native Client" and restart Chrome.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. It loads quite a few dependencies:

      Loading NaCl module.
      Loaded runnable-ld.so [1057 KiB]
      Loaded emacs_x86_64.nexe [5559 KiB]
      Loaded libppapi_simple.so [390 KiB]
      Loaded libpthread.so.1106743a [1529 KiB]
      Loaded libnacl_io.so [3626 KiB]
      Loaded libppapi_cpp.so [2489 KiB]
      Loaded libstdc++.so.6 [5583 KiB]
      Loaded libtiff.so.5 [659 KiB]
      Loaded libjpeg.so.8 [453 KiB]
      Loaded libpng16.so.16 [466 KiB]
      Loaded libz.so.1 [233 KiB]
      Loaded libm.so.1106743a [1270 KiB]
      Loaded libgif.so.4 [147 KiB]
      Loaded libXaw.so.7 [805 KiB]
      Loaded libXmu.so.6 [255 KiB]
      Loaded libXt.so.6 [773 KiB]
      Loaded libSM.so.6 [147 KiB]
      Loaded libICE.so.6 [244 KiB]
      Loaded libXext.so.6 [232 KiB]
      Loaded libX11.so.6 [1964 KiB]
      Loaded librt.so.1106743a [467 KiB]
      Loaded libncurses.so.5 [595 KiB]
      Loaded libc.so.1106743a [11743 KiB]
      Loaded libgcc_s.so.1 [336 KiB]
      Loaded libXpm.so.4 [222 KiB]
      Loaded libxcb.so.1 [296 KiB]
      Loaded libXau.so.6 [138 KiB]
      Loaded libdl.so.1106743a [314 KiB]
      Unable to create home directory in persistent storage: No such file or directory

At that point I thought it had failed, but after about a minute emacs came up. On OSX it seems to use about 215-240 MB, vs anywhere from 50-200 MB for my other chrome tabs.

Anyone have crouton handy to compare the overhead?

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> I'm using emacs on my Chromebook by using crouton.

<comment><USER8> Slightly off topic but I've never understood why people use Crouton. Surely if you buy a Chromebook you do it for the software, right?

<comment><USER9> I bought it for an excellent user environment for everything but programming, that could alt+tab into a programming environment. All of my non-tmux work is inside a browser. It made sense to me that I would have an environment that rapidly (less than 3 seconds) boots from cold to Chrome with optional Linux environment when I need it. It has advantages of being automatically encrypted and having deep integration with Google Apps that I use every day.

<comment><USER10> Thank you for your great answer . I am also considering buying Chromebook because my case is almost same as you (everything is inside of chrome or inside of bash ) , but I am a little skeptical about crouton , Do you have(or know) any video for showing/introducing how it works on Chromebook , how multiple tab's in bash works , I know this question is little wired but I haven't seen any crouton on chrome book yet , So I am very curious . Can it replace my ubuntu machine ? ( because I use it just for chrome(web) and heavy terminal usage (bash , gcc , gdb , emacs , etc), and I don't use any gtk qt etc app). Thank you .

<comment><USER11> They have some great docs at [https://github.com/dnschneid/crouton](https://github.com/dnschneid/crouton) and the community's great at [http://www.reddit.com/r/crouton](http://www.reddit.com/r/crouton)

As for replacing your ubuntu machine, the default distro is 12.04, but I'm sure you can install the latest.

I don't know about the amount of shell tabs you can have (as I use tmux), but my short experiment seems to hold up well.

The only problems I think you'll face is the scary 'OS Verification' at startup and limited memory (but can be solved by using a SD card). croutons are cheap to install so install, remove, install until you find your niche.

<comment><USER10> Oh , I think there is a misunderstanding going on here , Maybe I describe it in bad way , By replacing I didn't mean installing ubuntu on chromebook , I just want switch away from this whole gtk/qt/unity/gnome/kde/xfce/cinnamon/mate non-sense. Main thing I am looking for is how is crosh , when you using it in heavy way (gcc,emacs etc).

<comment><USER12> You can also install a chroot with the cli-extra target. This launches the chroot in a TTY with the `sudo startcli` command from the crosh shell. Instead of launching into a desktop environment.

Then I just startup a ssh server there. And head back to ChromeOS and SSH to local host (the secure shell plugin is good for this). This means my chroot is totally independent of any chromeos windows or crosh shells.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> For a moment I thought this was another April Fools joke.

</comment><comment><USER14> Love the use of the K-ON! chrome theme for the screenshot.</comment>


Could a bus with sleep pods replace airplanes - <AUTHOR> http://www.npr.org/2017/08/04/541417748/could-a-bus-with-sleep-pods-replace-airplanes <comment><USER2> One plus point of this article, is they say why the journey takes so long!

I wish Amtrak ran an overnight service to San Jose or Oakland. The San Joaqins train might work: The train portion of the journey, from Bakersfield to the Richmond BART station, is about 5 1/2 hours, or 6 hours to Jack London Square. The problem is a 2 1/2 hour bus ride from Union Station to Bakersfield.

I think the better option would be the Coast Starlight, which I have taken. The trip from LA Union Station leaves at 10:10 AM, and is scheduled at San Jose 10 hours 1 minute later.

Imagine something like this: A consist of mostly sleeper and business-class cars, with a lounge/cafe and diner car. Your train departs Los Angeles Union station at 8 PM. You either have a late meal on the train, or you ate earlier at Union Station (you have to go to the Traxx restaurant). In the time before bed, you wander around, work on your laptop (there's good cell & wi-fi coverage for the first part of the journey), and chat/network with people in the lounge car.

Time passes. The ride quality is fine (at least, it was to me).

At 6 AM, your train pulls in to San Jose. Some people get off here, but not all, and the journey isn't over: Instead of terminating, the train moves from Union Pacific to Caltrain right-of-way.

Your train departs San Jose after Caltrain 309 (the 6:04 Baby Bullet). After Caltrain 309, the next train isn't until 6:23, so there's room in case your train was delayed overnight.

Your train stops at Palo Alto around 6:45, Redwood City around 6:55, and Millbrae around 7:10. The Palo Alto stop lets people turn back south on Caltrain 206 (6:54, Limited) or Caltrain 212 (7:33, making all stops). Redwood City lets people transfer to Caltrain 211 (6:59), which stops at all remaining Caltrain stations on the route. And Millbrae is the BART connection.

Your train arrives at 4th & King around 7:30 AM. Downtown LA to Downtown San Francisco, fed, watered, and comfortable, in 11 hours 30 minutes, although you were only awake for like 4 of those hours.

I want this now.

</comment><comment><USER3> Meanwhile in China...

[https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/china-reclaim-title- wor...](https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/china-reclaim-title-world-s- fastest-train-ncna794931)</comment>


Yahoo Axis - <AUTHOR> http://axis.yahoo.com/ <comment><USER2> So it turns out they accidentally included their certificate private key inside the Chrome extension package:

<https://twitter.com/nikcub/status/205489752684765185>

Edit: just created a fake package and signed it:

<https://github.com/nikcub/yahoo-spoof>

<comment><USER3> I don't know what kind of damage you can cause with this information, but I do think that posting this publicly was pretty unethical. You should have contacted Yahoo and then disclosed the information after.

EDIT: And here comes the downvotes. If you disagree with what I said then you really should post a response because you're preventing me from understanding why I might be wrong. If I knew your house door was unlocked, would it be okay for me to tell everyone in the world before I let you know?

<comment><USER4> He caused no damage whatsoever.

Yahoo caused the damage the second they put it up for download and someone downloaded it, at that point the cat was out of the bag and the certificate compromised.

When dealing with certificate signing and compromised private certs "Maybe no one noticed" is not a good enough response.

(I am assuming he used various methods of contacting Yahoo directly as well as publicly calling them out of course.)

EDIT: Thinking about it he MIGHT have caused damage because maybe no one else may have noticed before yahoo got the cert revoked, but that chances that no one else (blackhats for example) noticing before the cert was revoked are very small in my opinion.

<comment><USER5> I agree with you. I think it's unethical not to publicly announce this one. I understand that some bugs may be best treated in private, but compromised certificates can cause real havoc.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> A lot of people here are negatively judging this product on the basis that it's from Yahoo. I think that's extremely premature and close-minded. Give it a chance will you?

I personally think the iPad app is fantastic. The ability to pull down search results and visually see their content was a great idea and I think this makes Axis much more appealing to use over Safari. I think I'm actually going to replace Safari with Axis for a while. It's a shame that you can't switch search engines, but I'm willing to give Yahoo search another shot.

On the other hand, I'm not really impressed with the Google Chrome toolbar. I think it's annoying to have something overlay my browser on every page I visit.

I haven't tested out the iPhone app yet.

<comment><USER6> Agreed. All the hate is unnecessary. Give it 5 minutes before pilling on Yahoo and the past decisions of it's board.

The idea of taking browsing with you is nice feature that Im suprised hasn't been implemented so well by other operating system / browsers. As such, I'd expect Windows8 and WindowsPhone8 to have tight integration and hopefully have features like this.

<comment><USER7> Automatic syncing of bookmarks and open tabs (among other things) is available on desktop and Android versions of Chrome. It's a feature I use frequently.

<comment><USER8> Me too, but to be fair, not many people get the chrome love (since it requires 4.0+)

<comment><USER9> It also works with all versions of Firefox and on older versions of Android.

Incidently the new beta of Firefox for Android is incredibly much better than the older Firefox too. And that works on older Android as well, of course.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I've never uninstalled a browser plugin so quickly. It really is just what you think it is: a 2001-era search toolbar, except without the useful list of search results. Just thumbnails that tell you nothing about the result.

<comment><USER11> That's what rubbed me the wrong way about the video saying over and over "It _completely_ redefines how you search the web!" No, not really.

<comment><USER12> It does completely redefine the way you search the web. It's changing search results from text to thumbnails. That will be totally useless in many circumstances, but could be useful in some.

<comment><USER13> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SearchMe>

I remember when this came out -- they spent a lot advertising this same "revolution", there were billboards and everything for it.

<comment><USER12> Ah, this will probably fail for the same reasons!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> "Watch the Ad!"

Is there anything that shows how out-of-touch Yahoo better than the idea of wasting 1/3 of the above-the-fold space with something that warns people in advance it is nothing more than an _ad_?

Call it "Learn More" or something - anything but this. Didn't they A/B test it?

(Or maybe I'm part of the unsuccessful half of an A/B test. Hmm..)

<comment><USER15> FWIW, Apple's iPad home page features a "Watch the TV Ad" button, although admittedly it's not quite as prominent as this.

<comment><USER16> Unlike the Axis page, you don't need to watch anything to find out what the product does.

People watch the Apple ads because they think they're "cool" or "interesting", not because they're trying to find out more about the product.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> So it's a new toolbar? Just what decade is Yahoo! living in?

Edit: What strikes me is how this is being billed: "A Chrome killer" and even the demo and ad spot use the phrasing "new browser": however this is not a browser. It may be a /browsing experience/ perhaps but it certainly doesn't stand to compete with Chrome mano-a-mano. Clearly the true target is search. But even then: has the world been waiting breathlessly to return to the days of toolbars?

<comment><USER18> On iOS it is actually a browser. You are being dismissive without even knowing the facts.

Additionally, Yahoo! has never called it Chrome killer.

<comment><USER19> I bet you on iOS it's a UIWebView.

<comment><USER20> I guarantee this is the case. If their desktop effort at a "new browser" is a chrome extension, no way is the IOS version anything more than a wrapper around UIWebView.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Check the awesome terms + conditions:

<http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/axis/en-us/>

<comment><USER22> Wow, they fucked up. If someone uses axis now, can they legally just do whatever the hell they want?

<comment><USER23> I took this to mean that there is only one term of use for Axis right now and it is this: if they ever get terms, those terms will be displayed in that rectangular box with the rounded corners.

Everything else is fair game.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> The advertisement is a bit of an overkill. I wish there was more text on the main page to tell me exactly what it is. The advertisement showed me a dude punching websites.

<comment><USER25> Yes, I couldn't figure out why he wants to break websites! One does not simply break the things that help him.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> I might be alone here, but the ability to do a search then page through the results without the normal "back, click new result" or opening multiple windows is a win for me.

The visual preview stuff isn't bad either, and makes it easy to determine is a site is "spammy" or not.

I just wish I had the functionality in the top search bar not through the bottom one. If this functionality was built into a forked version of Chrome I would switch to it in a heartbeat. Add in a way for other search engines to supply the results and I would be very happy.

</comment><comment><USER27> The guy in the desktop video would be more convincing if only he would stop shaking his head "no".

<comment><USER28> I thought the same thing, it was seriously distracting for me. Its kind of amazing that they gave him such little direction about his body language.

<comment><USER29> Yes, seriously it wouldn't hurt the guy to smile to actually make me even want to believe him.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> In the demo video, they show someone doing copy/paste in the browser window to enter information into the axis search bar. Why not add a contextual menu choice?

It is the small UX things like this that would really make me want to try it over just opening a new tab in chrome, typing something in and getting the results.

<comment><USER31> I noticed that too. Especially since chrome already has a "Search google for foobar" in the right click context menu.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> When I worked at ask Jeeves, we thought a browser toolbar was how we were going to beat google, too. In 2001.

<comment><USER33> Nahh, you beat Google by atomising, securing and crowdsourcing search with open ranking algorithms that users can edit and share to serve as online agents. And you do it before Google, or at the very least better.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> I like how it collapses quickly and tries to remain as lean as possible. But there is something fundamentally wrong - my browser already has a search box on top right..why did Yahoo think adding another one on bottom left would make me happy?

May a right side panel that reads from browser search box and completely collapses when I don't search would have been nicer.

</comment><comment><USER35> The salesperson's habit of shaking his head 'no' while talking makes me not believe his statements. That, and the fact that he works for Yahoo . . .

<comment><USER36> Yeah, maybe it was made by interns brainstorming and was never really meant to be released to the public.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> Man, the logo looks way too much like adobe! <http://www.adobe.com/>

</comment><comment><USER38> Not supported for my operating system. (I run Linux.)

I thought this was a browser plugin?

<comment><USER39> Yahoo! never cared for Linux users. Remember the Linux version of Yahoo! Messenger? It lagged behind the Windows version so much before being quietly removed. Coincidentally, I never care much for Yahoo! anymore.

<comment><USER4> I think the point is he trying to make is that the plugin is for the browser which should have abstracted away all OS specifics.

I.e. this plugin should work on any OS that the browser does.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> The idea is good, an old-fashioned and dead company trying to disrupt in an attempt to recover.

The execution is terrible. If your product competitive advantage is being edgy and design oriented (rather than technical[1]) than I expect the end product and landing page design to be much, much more polished and professional.

[1] I'll accept the design if the disruption competitive advantage is technical (e.g. sci-fi AI that finds the exact answer to your search or question)

</comment><comment><USER41> I like how the itunes reviews were clearly written by the marketing department.

[http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/yahoo!-axis-a-search- browser/...](http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/yahoo!-axis-a-search- browser/id506520874?ls=1&mt=8)

</comment><comment><USER42> The iOS version looks genuinely interesting. I bet they would have better success if they made it a real browser on desktop too, they could have used Chromium, like Rockmelt did.

</comment><comment><USER43> Yahoo Axis isn't actually a browser its just a plugin which shows in the bottom left hand corner of your existing browser.

However despite the advanced knowledge regarding the launch of this, Yahoo! Axis software license and service terms[1] states:

"Terms will go here."

There's a screenshot which shows it incase they update the page[2].

[1] <http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/axis/en-us/>

[2] <http://i.imgur.com/19asR.jpg>

</comment><comment><USER44> Shouldn't Yahoo focus on the products they are neglecting (i.e., Flickr) rather than introduce more products to then neglect?

<comment><USER45> Flickr has had 5 or 6 major updates this year, including a rebuilt uploader, redesigned photo page, a new justified view, social album browsing, integration of a new photo editor, and more. So, there is a lot of work being done at Flickr. See announcements @ <http://code.flickr.com/blog/>

If there's anything specific you'd like to see, leave a reply.

<comment><USER44> A much better iPhone application. I think there was a whole article about that.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> I don't want to pile on, but after watching both videos on my Android the screen just goes black when it's done playing. I actually had to press my power button to get the screen back, unlock the phone and then backout from the popup player. I can't remember this happening to me before. Revolutionizing indeed.

</comment><comment><USER47> This reminds me of that Simpsons episode where Homer is given the job of designing a new car for his brother's auto company.

I just wish Yahoo would wake up and realize that they don't have to compete with Google. They can be successful if they focus on being themselves. Sadly, it may be too late.

</comment><comment><USER48> How can they expect to compete? Of the people who actually use yahoo products are they tech savvy enough to care about browsers? I imagine (maybe incorrectly) that yahoo users are mostly former employees and "normals" who use whatever their kids install on their computer

</comment><comment><USER49> I fear this is too late for Yahoo. I don't think the "Google Killer" is going to be some incremental change in how search is done. It's far too late for that. It would have to be Earth-shattering, and I didn't feel anything shaking when I watched the demo video.

</comment><comment><USER50> The "Desktop" download just installs a chrome extension that adds a yahoo toolbar at the bottom.

</comment><comment><USER51> Everything is broken on that page for me, can't watch the videos or download the software.

</comment><comment><USER52> I'm seeing more and more serious apps that are relying on browser extensions for a main part of their functionality.

It's a trend that I think has been gradually picking up speed over the years (as extensions have gotten a little easier to manage)

</comment><comment><USER53> Anyone non-US is able to try the iOS version yet? In Canada here, the iPad app doesn't show up on the App Store and the direct link from Yahoo throws an error.

</comment><comment><USER54> Has anyone found any keyboard shortcuts for using it?

</comment><comment><USER55> Is there any other products currently that can sync your desktop to your mobile device? I haven't been too successful finding anything.

<comment><USER56> Chrome and the Chrome Beta on ICS have this built in.

</comment></comment><comment><USER57> Yahoo Axis for desktop is just a fancy toolbar that sits on the bottom instead of top. #justsayin

</comment><comment><USER58> It seemed fine on the mobile (err, I mean on iOS), totally pointless on desktop though.

</comment><comment><USER59> Maybe they can use Yahoo! Axis to screen future CEO qualifications...

</comment><comment><USER60> What's the font on the landing page? Is that... Times New Roman?

</comment><comment><USER61> My god - Yahoo at it's most clueless yet. The final death wail.

</comment><comment><USER62> Did someone put makeup on him in addition to the dee-vee?

</comment><comment><USER63> how to make chloroform… creepy. did anyone else notice that in the "ad"?

</comment><comment><USER64> No thanks. :\

</comment><comment><USER65> Yahoo? No thanks. Just go away, patent troll.

</comment><comment><USER66> Axis countries during WWII.

Axis of Evil.

Axis Chemical, because early adopters are Batman fans.

Why this name? What _positive_ associations does it have?

<comment><USER67> "a new way to access/axis the web".. they keep mentioning it in the demo video.

<comment><USER68> "If you have a question on your mind, just type in whatever the thing you want to axis!"

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER69> Ohh Yahoo..Why not release a Android version so that Android users can take it for a spin. Why such a behavior from a big company like yours?

</comment><comment><USER70> Hi, I am Scott, and I am here to kill your family while I seamlessly trend around a scroll list of nothing on my iThing and the camera pans to a first plane of my face.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> <http://l.yimg.com/mk/micro/img/axis-icon64.png></comment>


What did you cover in your undergrad CS degree? - <AUTHOR> http://catalystclass.com/2012/10/29/undergraduating/

<comment><USER2> The key question that some have touched on is this: What should comprise a CS degree? (E.g., should these (and/or other areas) be a part of a CS degree?)

I think the right balance needs to be struck between the academic and vocational views. Big-O, grammar, automata, etc. are the fodder of academic papers, not the Real World. But when you talk about higher ed, here's the rub: its supposed to be the theoretical foundation, not a purely vocational preparation.

The danger of the more vocational point of view is that you're supporting what I see as the slide from "skilled software engineering" to "coding". (Think the difference between having John Carmack on your team, versus some guy making $8/hr in a developing country.) This is hyperbole, but if you focus on the day-to-day elements of any job, then you're advocating for movement to a technical school curriculum (which, right or not, has a different level of career momentum, responsibility, etc.).

CS (using the term to apply to the genre, inclusive) is maybe unique in that there are very vocational components, but also very intellectual/academic components. I think, like any career, there are going to be Things You Don't Know coming out of school. Interviewing, for example. Is that in ANY university-level curriculum, for ANY major? Are you expected to be 100% "operational" in a particular job immediately after your degree is awarded? Moreover, since when are all CS jobs the same? Why should it be any different for CS?

This is what bothers me about this argument: CS is not equal to programming, and not equal to a (particular) job.

And moreover (and I think most here would agree), the greatest hallmark of a great "technical thinker" (programmer, academic, problem-solver, tester, DB admin, whatever) is their willingness, nay INTEREST, in pursuing the details of their craft beyond the structure of a class or a job or (god forbid) an employee handbook.

I don't want to work with someone who goes through the motions. I don't want to work with someone who comes out of college thinking they're prepared for their capital-C Career. I want a lifelong learner, and someone who wants to get into the guts of operations and make an impact.

Educate and train for THAT.

<comment><USER3> > Big-O, grammar, automata, etc. are the fodder of academic papers, not the > Real World.

I have personally needed all of those things in the Real World.

I suspect that if more people remembered the stuff they learned in college, it would get a lot more use. "I'm never going to use this in the real world!" can be a terribly self-fulfilling prophecy.

<comment><USER2> I knew someone would come in and say that! (And I enjoyed my classes on automata.)

You're right, though. Which goes back to my question around what should be part of a formal education? I bet HN could come up with 10 years worth of courses that are "essential", plus another 10 that are "nice to haves".

<comment><USER3> The easy heuristic here is approval voting: award one point to a subject each time someone mentions it as a "nice to have", and 2 or 3 points to each "essential", then tally up the votes to get a ranking. Truncate it at four years' worth of classes, and you have a curriculum!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> So I did EECS at Cal. And while some of these things are definitely in the category of software engineering and not computer science, I have to say that, in the few years between my undergrad and today, I've kept in touch with the community. And it's my sense that a lot of skills which one might find on this list are starting to be emphasized more: testing, version control, scale, timelines, communication -- so it does feel like undergrad curricula "get it" and are supplementing the standard courses with some generally useful stuff. Not replacing, but suggesting/providing/using some of the useful stuff in the context of the greater course.

I'm a little surprised schools didn't touch upon complexity already; that's been around for awhile. Yet, it is the biggest category in the responses, so that's probably why.

I'd also say that things like deployment, sysadmining -- _browser incompatibilities_? These are a lot more role-specific and better learned in situ. If the guy who knows browser incompatibilities needs to know how to do deployment, you are either (a) a pre-funding startup or (b) spreading your talent kinda thin.

I'm sure most of the responses here will say something like "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education" -- which is all well and good for you. But if we want more and better candidates, it couldn't hurt to adopt some of the best-of-the-best practices (version control!) into CS curricula.

</comment><comment><USER5> This doesn't look like a CS degree---this looks more like software engineering requirements. CS and SE focus on distinctly different things. I might suggest changing the page title.

<comment><USER6> Many CS degrees are all there are at institutions. SE is merely a focus you can take in that.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Personally I find things like version control and system administration to be things that students should learn for themselves. They should be encouraged, even actively encouraged (in fact they are already in most institutions) but there shouldn't be a class dedicated to this stuff. You are in University, studying CS ffs. If you can't learn such petty things for yourself, what good are you?

<comment><USER8> This is exactly the sort of condescending attitude that pisses me off about the CS program I'm currently concluding. Why should software engineering be considered "petty" in relation to, say, the study of formal languages and automata?

The vast majority of students in my program honestly don't give a flying fuck about the academic opinion that CS shouldn't behave like a vocational school - the intent is to go into software development, and CS is the only offering that touches on it. Yes, we're all capable of learning various things on our own (including the theoretical aspects of CS, as instructors in these fields are typically so incredibly incompetent that students are required to teach themselves, anyway), but that's not a justification for providing an education that is largely irrelevant.

If I really wanted to study theory and computational mathematics... I would have studied computational mathematics.

Were it not for the perceived value of a CS degree, I suspect a substantial number of students wouldn't even bother, and probably flock to Coursera, etc.

<comment><USER9> Well, it sounds like you signed up for fine arts when you actually wanted to be a carpenter.

And you're forgetting companies like Google, Amazon, etc. who expect candidates to know CS theory pretty thoroughly. What kind of school would be proud of grads who couldn't get into one of these top companies? Software engineering is also easier to pick up on the job than in school, and vice versa for the theory.

It's condescending to describe CS theory as "largely irrelevant", but this also sounds like a case of sour grapes. There are plenty of tech curriculums that are light on CS theory--try looking for "Informatics", "IT", "Information systems" and so on.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> -Philosophy of science, the scientific method

-Object-oriented programming

-Basic calculus

-Basic discrete mathematics

-Linear algebra

-Algorithms, data structures and asymptotic analysis

-Basic compiler design

-Theory of computation, Turing machines and formal languages

-Basic practical computing technology, from the gate level

-Basic software engineering: SE methodology, version control and developing software in a team

-Cryptography, ciphers and data security

-Overview of the role of operating systems

-Networking, encapsulation and the TCP/IP stack

-Basic web technology, server-side programming and client-side scripting

Anything outside of this, I've learned on the job or in my spare time. This includes AJAX and the use of heavier web technology. To my intuition, this is more descriptive of an undergrad degree in computer science rather than a software engineering degree. But it'd be nice to hear what others think.

<comment><USER11> I don't see what OOP has to do with Computer Science. Isn't that Software Engineering?

<comment><USER10> I agree, but this is where my department is being pragmatic. A computer scientist with no experience at all in OOP or basic software engineering will initially be pretty useless in the private sector, which is where 90% of graduates go.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> On the results, rather than displaying the % of votes that each subject received, it would be more helpful to show the % of voters that selected it.

 _Instead of this:_

Total voters: 613

Total votes: 3168

Designing data structures (543 votes, 17%)

 _Show this:_

Total voters: 613

Total votes: 3168

Designing data structures (543 votes, 89%)

</comment><comment><USER13> I graduated with a CS degree ten years ago and I could only check the following:

Designing data structures Analyzing algorithmic complexity (Big O)

Version control was glossed over in my class with little importance given to it.

<comment><USER14> Yes, the date when one was studying is a vital facet of the data being gathered here. It's a big oversight IMO to have missed out on asking a question to gain date information (eg graduation year).

I've only got, in this respect, an undergrad diploma in computing and covered 6 of these things in any depth; it would be around the same time as you were studying and we never covered version control at all.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Browser incompatibilities? That's a candidate for the 'information to be most quickly rendered outdated/irrelevant after graduation' award. I would rather spend my $1400 a credit hour on poetry workshops (and I did.)

<comment><USER11> Are American universities really that expensive?

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> The table of results is hard to read. More contrast between the results bars and the background would help.

</comment><comment><USER17> "We believe that the bar for training and hiring of front end JavaScript developers is even more attainable, and that is why we have chosen to be the first, and as of now, the only training program specifically for that market."

You know what I want--a twelve week, intense course on scientific computing in something like Python--for people who already know some core scientific subject and statistics. If we took [http://www.drewconway.com/zia/wp- content/uploads/2010/09/Dat...](http://www.drewconway.com/zia/wp- content/uploads/2010/09/Data_Science_VD.png) as a guide (and yes, yes, data science is just a name for something that has existed for twenty years), I want a program to move people from traditional research to data science.

</comment><comment><USER18> I feel like there should be a follow up survey asking recent grads what their degree enabled them to learn outside of their coursework.

My CS degree hardly taught me anything in comparison to everything I learned outside of my coursework, but I don't feel like my coursework was lacking. On the contrary, my education allowed me to learn new things on my own that would have been significantly harder otherwise.

eg a basic algorithm course lead me to get involved in TopCoder. An introductory course on software development (source control, testing, etc) gave me enough knowledge to find an internship where I learned about peer reviews and how to work effectively with a large codebase - something that is very hard to pick up in a semester of college.

</comment><comment><USER19> I got to check three of these, but one (version control) was only because I took game programming. A person could easily earn a CS degree from my school without using version control for any class.

</comment><comment><USER20> One thing that I wish my undergrad CS degree taught me was how to manage and structure larger programs. It's a vast topic that I still have a lot of difficulty with two years into my career.

</comment><comment><USER21> So did anyone ask these same questions to businesses that hire CS grads? How about business that hire programmers/non-CS grads? Would be useful to see the flip side.

</comment><comment><USER22> CompSci should include at least a semester or two of business classes, including the delegation lessons in the HBS article posted earlier today.

<comment><USER3> Be careful when saying things of the form "$DEGREE_PROGRAM should also include at least one class in $SUBJECT." You can make persuasive arguments for the relevance of a dizzying range of subjects, and at some point you have to prioritize.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> Very little that was directly transferable to the real world. Some may argue this doesn't apply to CS, but I think applied computing science is what I'd look for.

Things that were not covered included:

\- Basic business skills

\- Basic sales skills (We all have to sell our ideas, be it to peers, departments, customers.)

\- Storytelling skills

\- People networking skills

\- Understanding very few businesses have technology problems, but instead business problems that they are trying to solve with technology.

\- You don't understand anything if you don't understand how the data in any system inputs, exists, interacts, and outputs. You don't understand the business if you don't understand the data. You should not be allowed anywhere near building software for an organization if you don't understand the data.

\- Understanding that the data in many ways is the system. No software/system is useful without data.

\- Learning an organization's competitive advantage and magnifying it with software. Too often programmers interpret things killing the competitive advantage.

\- It's not about you, it's about the user. Users rarely care what you code in, or the frameworks, or whatever you've done to make your own life selfishly easier and continuing to neglect actually getting to know their world, their data, and the the problems they face with it.

\- Marketing skills - eliminate feature babble and focus on benefits once you've been in user's shoes working on users problems.

\- Communicating with the world to first understand, and then address their needs. You are no better than a technically clueless business guy if you make assumptions as blindly in other ways about the business process.

\- How the real world does not start every project with a clean slate like CS projects. This is probably one of the biggest gaps.

\- Learning to learn other people's code, refactor + more.

Instead, we learned the theoretical using many languages building the same kinds of things over and over for 4 years. It was awesome to the geek in me. Sprinkle in some UI or database skills, and yes, I did get very good at learning any technology I needed, but implementing it in a meaningful, sustainable way. But the real world used very little of what I learnt for 4 years.

When I took CS in the late 90's I had to learn to build web apps, databases, load balancing, administrating servers, all on my own, not to mention getting a business education largely by learning to swim by diving in.

The social skills are really big. Partially I think CS attracts folks that aren't extroverted, and it can be a problem.

We're at or nearing a crossroads in my opinion where the entire world has come to the internet and technology, and those building technologies and online need to be better bridges in interfacing with humanity.

<comment><USER24> Where I went to school (Purdue) there was the school of engineering and the school of technology. The theory (at least) was that technology had more of the business side of skills as you suggest.

The downside was that more time on business meant less time on engineering, and you ended up with people that dropped out of the engineering school, combined with people that may not have been able to hack it in the first place, and a tiny minority of people that could have passed in the engineering school.

This means that as a signalling tool (which is a large part of the value of a college degree in the workplace) a technology degree was far less valuable than an engineering degree, which causes a feedback loop to keep the number of people with actual engineering talent low in the Tech school.

This is from my observation of EE vs EET as I knew people in both majors. CS was in the school of science, not engineering so it had no equivalent in the school of technology.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> I am not surprised with "Interviewing candidates" getting low score, but it did receive some votes.... any proof?</comment>


What are your tools of choice? - <AUTHOR>

<comment><AUTHOR> If you could freely choose your tools for your projects, _"what tools (software, maybe hardware) would you use?"_ [0], [1] The obvious answers are _'the language I'm most proficient in'_ or _'the language that gives me the most leverage'_ , what's yours?

Reference

[0] I ask this question to myself every once and a while and I was prompted again listening to "Great Hackers".

[1] ITConversations, pg, "Great Hackers, mp3 31m, 11 mb"

<http://www.itconversations.com/shows/detail188.html>

<comment><USER2> Just curious why you always quote and reference things in your posts. To me it just feels overly formal and extraneous for the level and type of conversation I expect to find here. It's a lot like shaking my roomates hand in greeting every day.

To answer your question: Programmers Notepad, WinSCP, TurtleSVN, PuTTY

<comment><AUTHOR> _'... Programmers Notepad, WinSCP, TurtleSVN, PuTTY ...'_

What languages?

_'... Just curious why you always quote and reference things in your posts. To me it just feels overly formal and extraneous for the level and type of conversation I expect to find here ...'_

Not overly formal but dense. While the _'Internet might not forget'_ , [0] it looses context and meaning over time. This means the things you write now, are going to be around for a long time. So if you are going to write something it may as well be interesting & useful. This isn't _'formalism'_ gone mad, but recognising that a small additional bit of information makes quick comments, observations, insights much more useful at some time in the future.

I'll give you an example. One post on _'Deep data'_ [1] I added some comments, cited the source and made some extra observations that would make the overall comment more complicated than it should be. I wasn't really surprised then, checking back over the original sources the author [2] had picked up this post - why? Because I added extra useful information (author, article title, comment, keyword), picked up by google & found & provided useful feedback.

Plus, what makes you think I just leave the comments here? I cross post good comments to my flickr account, summaries to twitter & full posts to my blog. Though I must admit If i had inline links I probably wouldn't need to cite as much :(

Reference

[0] Jay Ward's blog, 'The Internet Doesn`t Forget'

<http://www.wardtek.ca/2007/04/the-internet-doesnt-forget/>

[1] bootload, news.yc, 'GDrive Google's next big thing?'

<http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=10792>

[2] Joe Gregorio, bitworking.org, 'Megadata Follow-up'

<http://bitworking.org/news/159/Megadata-Follow-up>

<comment><USER2> Languages? Generally Python as of late. I find it easy and fast to work in. I'm trying to learn Haskell, so my next project will be using that.

My workflow tends to go like this... I open an ssh session to my colocated dev box to run servers, reboot services, etc. I use WinSCP to connect to the server and edit code directly on there so I can see the changes.

I do my best to keep SVN up and running so I have a repository. I used to just use vi over ssh, but I've found programmers notepad much nicer for dealing with large amounts of files.

Since I do webapps I have on one screen my editor, my ssh connection (or three), and WinSCP to manage files on the server. The other monitor holds Firefox and all it's glorious debugging tools.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Epsilon Theory: Things Fall Apart - <AUTHOR> https://www.epsilontheory.com/things-fall-apart-pt-1/ <comment><AUTHOR> I really love this bit. It something that I've felt was true in observing the world views of people around me but never could think of an eloquent way to say.

"How did we get here? We got soft. I don't mean that in a macho sort of way. I don't even mean that as a bad thing. I mean that, just like the Romans of Gibbon's history and just like the Africans of Achebe's novel and just like the mobsters of the Sopranos, we have long forgotten the horrors of literal war and why we constructed these cooperatively-oriented institutions in the first place. We are content instead to trust that the Peace of Ani or the Peace of the Five Families or the Pax Romana or the Pax Americana is a stable peace – a stable equilibrium – where we can all just focus on living our best lives and eking out a liiiiitle bit of relative advantage. We are content to become creatures of the flock, intently other-observing animals, consumed by concerns of relative positioning to graze on more grass than the sheep next to us. Besides, it's so wearying to maintain the actual intent of the old institutions, to mean it when you swear an oath to a Constitution or a god or a chief, and not just see it as an empty ritual that must be observed before getting the keys to the car."</comment>


Archaeologists discover 'Gate to Hell' - <AUTHOR> http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2013/s3729222.htm <comment><USER2> "…destroyed by the early Christians in 6AD" — there's something wrong with that statement.

Edit: according to [http://news.discovery.com/history/archaeology/gate-to- hell-f...](http://news.discovery.com/history/archaeology/gate-to-hell-found- in-turkey-130329.htm), it was in the 6th century AD.

<comment><USER3> It was in fact destroyed by the 6 year old Jesus.

<comment><USER4> According to the _Infancy Gospel of Thomas_ [1], the 6-year old Jesus was regularly breathing life into clay birds, making people blind and killing other children by will, so it seems reasonable that he may have destroyed the Gate of Hell as well.

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infancy_Gospel_of_Thomas>

<comment><USER5> The Infancy Gospel sounds like horrible Jesus fanfiction.

<comment><USER6> Christianity has a lot of fanfiction, and large chunks of it have been merged with the canonical scripture in the popular imagination. Ever noticed how the devil doesn't actually feature in the bible anywhere? Yeah.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_apocrypha>

<comment><USER7> > _Ever noticed how the devil doesn't actually feature in the bible anywhere?_

Sorry? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_in_Christianity#Sources_o...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_in_Christianity#Sources_of_Christian_teaching)

<comment><USER6> Oh there are lots of references to "satan," but what is he? God's opposite number? A fallen angel? A non-fallen, benign angel? Man's own sinful nature? Previously popular pagan entities? It's a long way from the modern theological concept of the devil.

Since then we have post-rationalised all these vague biblical references into one guy with horns and goats feet who hangs out in a lake of fire, but that is a (comparatively) recent idea, as you will find if you examine your own wiki link a little more closely. (BTW the lake of fire barely gets half a sentence either. That's also very much something that came with the "expanded universe" books. Actually they were paintings rather than books, but you can look that up for yourself.)

You could also watch this superb recent BBC documentary on the subject: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1aa9q1RULg>

Wait until you hear about god's first attempt at woman, Eve's predecessor, who went bad! There's a lot of fun stuff that modern christianity has chosen to throw out.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I really wish articles like these would include photos, the referenced writings or at least the coordinates.

<comment><USER9> I know - I had to search for it. This piece includes a bit of video as well:

[http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/travel/news/archaeologists-...](http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/travel/news/archaeologists- have-uncovered-plutos-gate-an-ancient-gateway-to-hell-in- turkey/story-e6frezi0-1226611365115?sv=842fe879b7cd63798f245998c36557bf)

<comment><USER10> Not to mention commas.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Another amazing place in the running for the title Gate to Hell: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door_to_Hell>

<comment><USER12> This is what first came to mind for me as well.

Flickr pics: <http://www.flickr.com/photos/flydime/4671890953/>

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> And to think I thought they had known where Oracle's headquarters were all along.

<comment><USER14> That explains the dead birds all over RWC.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Anyone else here is wishing you had time to pack up some breathing gear and cross the gate to see what is inside?

</comment><comment><USER16> Nothing new, there are loads of them all over the UK. For locations just see here <http://www.entrances2hell.co.uk/>.

<comment><USER17> The new thing is that this is the gate to hell which Strabo visited. And which also is situated close to a Pluto temple.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Anyone have the coordinates to the site?

<comment><USER19> I don't have the coordinates of the excavation site but the ruins of the old baths are located at: 37°55'29"N 29° 7'29"E

<comment><USER18> Awesome, thanks. Now, let the jokes begin. (:

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Did they follow a road paved with good intentions?

</comment><comment><USER21> Damn I was hoping for Doom III status.</comment>


Is there life inside black holes? - <AUTHOR> http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1103/1103.6140v4.pdf <comment><USER2> Here is a scary thought [http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/weirdastronomy.php#id-- Elda...](http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/weirdastronomy.php#id-- Eldar_Black_Holes)

</comment><comment><USER3> The math escapes me, but what an incredibly novel and breathtaking idea.. any thoughts on this?</comment>


Reddit disallows remote work after $50MM investment round - <AUTHOR> https://twitter.com/dhh/status/517372782976696321

<comment><AUTHOR> A more informative link -

[https://twitter.com/yishan/status/517366447253643264](https://twitter.com/yishan/status/517366447253643264)

</comment><comment><USER2> "There are a lot of factors to getting good teamwork. Physically putting everyone in the same place isn't usually one."

</comment><comment><USER3> This is great. I wonder if they'll take other "productivity boosting" measures like blocking access to sites like... reddit.</comment>