Amazon Plans to Split HQ2 Evenly Between Two Cities - <AUTHOR> https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-plans-to-split-hq2-evenly-between-two-cities-1541446552 <comment><USER2> For some reason archive.is has four versions of this article stored, all with the paywall intact.

This works [https://outline.com/pvJPEz](https://outline.com/pvJPEz)

<comment><USER3> This was broken when I had content blocking on, turning it off did the trick...

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Amazon is playing cities like chump. I had a sense in the beginning of this process that Amazon doesn't really want to build a HQ2. They just want to open another office. Most large tech companies have large campuses across multiple cities. This exercise is no different than that. But Bezos branded it HQ2 to maximize handout. I also predict that they will end up hiring far less than the 25k projected. There is a recession coming in the near future, which could result in Amazon looking for cheaper developers globally.

<comment><USER5> "There is a recession coming in the near future, which could result in Amazon looking for cheaper developers globally." It's dangerous to post speculative things with such certainty. The future is never guaranteed.

<comment><USER6> I am just going to leave you with this image here that shows the SP&500 since 1928: [https://imgur.com/a/JCMbIvU](https://imgur.com/a/JCMbIvU)

We have had 10 years of growth since the last recession (every gray line is a recession).

If you take into account the market corrections that we have seen this year as a sign, most people in finance will agree that there will be a correction in the next three years. It is far from speculation.

The charts was generated from here: [https://www.macrotrends.net/2324/sp-500-historical-chart- dat...](https://www.macrotrends.net/2324/sp-500-historical-chart-data)

Edit: FYI I did not imply that market corrections == recession. The reason I put the image is to show that there hasn't been a recession in 10 years and that we are due for one. We have had a few market corrections this year, but no recession _yet_.

<comment><USER7> Market corrections and recessions aren't the same thing, the chart you posted clearly shows Black Monday as not being a result of a recession. A rebalancing of the stock market at large doesn't necessarily result in mass unemployment, followed by mass foreclosure and so on.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Ruth Graham, a writer for Slate, commented on this this morning[0]:

"

A sword was brought & Bezos said "Cut HQ2 in half. Each of you can have part of it."

"Please don't split HQ2," the true host city screamed.

"Go ahead, cut it in half," the other city said.

Bezos pointed to the first city. "This is the real host. Put the headquarters here."

"

It makes me wonder if this is another negotiation tatic by Amazon to get the final city to shell out more incentives.

[0] [https://twitter.com/publicroad/status/1059533656694362115](https://twitter.com/publicroad/status/1059533656694362115)

<comment><USER9> > It makes me wonder if this is another negotiation tatic by Amazon to get the > final city to shell out more incentives.

Alternately, Amazon has liked pitting cities against each other so much, that they decided to keep doing it forever. "City A, we're looking to start a major new project up. City B is willing to offer X, Y, and Z if we launch it in the City B office, are you willing to beat that for us to open it in your office?"

<comment><USER10> Agreed. It certainly seems like this is the case and the end result would be both cities lurching towards becoming massively under Amazon's powerful thumb and dependent on it in the long run (think the Walmart method of dealing with businesses but... slightly bigger).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> The whole "HQ2" festival was dubious from the start, especially in light of this announcement.

Other similar companies - e.g. practically all FAANGS - just have one large HQ, and several smaller offices in various locations to tap into local talent.

How is Amazon exceptional such that it needs this special "HQ2" office?

This never made much sense for them... Except as a big PR fanfare to drum up huge benefit packages from cities on their various long/short candidate lists.

So now they cut the prospective office sizes in half. Will the benefit packages be cut in half? Probably not.

</comment><comment><USER12> I'm biased, but I've had a feeling in the beginning it was always going to be Dallas in some capacity:

1\. DC area may have three potential cities, but Texas is the only other region that has two cities being considered

2\. DFW airport is one of the US's busiest airports, and American Airlines is headquartered there, so you can get a direct flight to anywhere in the country in 3 hours tops. Amazon already has multiple warehouses here and also ships freight through DFW and other airports in the area.

3\. Public transit (Dallas has the largest light rail network south of DC), continued investment, world class museums, and honestly a pretty hip city with a lot of activity in the center, not unlike Seattle. Also lots of millennials moving there for its low cost of living and ample jobs.

4\. You can't beat Texas' business environment — Bezos even praised it when he spoke at a business conference at SMU earlier this summer.

5\. Establishing two offices will give Amazon influence in two places, and covering Seattle (West Coast), DC/NoVa (East Coast), Texas (South) gives them nationwide influence.

<comment><USER13> > Public transit, continued investment, world class museums, and honestly a > pretty hip city with a lot of activity in the center, not unlike Seattle. > Also lots of millennials moving there for its low cost of living and ample > jobs.

Minus museums, this could be said of plenty of other cities that are in places with less wacky politics. Museums don't mean a thing. Low cost of living as a requirement means a relative low cost of living compared to the West Coast.

I'd prefer to see Denver as the location over Dallas. The State of Texas needs a swift kick in the ass regarding their state politics, specifically the war on women, and their continued absurd policies regarding weed. The last thing they need more of is to be rewarded for unsustainable tax policies.

<comment><USER12> The writing is on the wall — Texas will turn blue sooner than later.

Dallas is a liberal stronghold in Texas, and in absolute numbers turns out more for Democrats than any other city in the state, including Austin (percentage-wise Austin wins by +5%, I believe). Unlike Austin, which is gerrymandered in the state legislature, every single state/county/city official in Dallas is a Democrat.

Dallas is also a gay rights stronghold, representing the only county and city in Texas, again including Austin, with non-discrimination clauses in employment and housing for LGBTQ+ individuals.

Furthermore— Texas is considering bi-partisan legislation to legalize weed. Dallas has already decriminalized it, and the State, while backwards in other regards, hasn't indicated it will force Dallas to back down on that measure. Dallas also has stricter gun laws than the state of Texas.

Texas has a long way to go, but I think if you would step in Dallas you would learn to leave your preconceived notions of it at the door.

I believe an HQ2 would speed up Texas' change.

<comment><USER14> Ft. Worth, right next door, is not though. I don't see this happening, by the way. Abbott is up by 15-20 points in the polls this year. And Texas is just different, culturally, than these other states.

You can have your LGBTQ anti-discrimination and TX still remain red, BTW. They're not mutually exclusive.

<comment><USER12> Fort Worth is the largest non-Democratic city in all of the US, yes, but if you also look at every election you can see it too is turning bluer and bluer.

Also, the government race is not a good indicator. Lupe Valdez has made mistake after mistake in her campaign — I'm liberal, and even I wasn't enthusiastic about voting for her. She's doing so bad that she's polling less than the percentage of registered Democrats there are in the state.

For change, look at the Beto polls — he's not favored to win, but he'll come within 5 points. That's huge considering Cruz previously won by +21. Furthermore, in the 2016 election Texas was only +9 Trump — that's less than conventional swing states such as Ohio.

Hillary did better in Texas than any Democrat since Reagan. Also, Texas last had a Blue governor in 1994. Texas hasn't always been red — only for the past two decades — and it won't stay red forever.

<comment><USER15> > Texas last had a Blue governor in 1994. Texas hasn't always been red — only > for the past two decades — and it won't stay red forever.

California last had a Republican governor in 2011, but people will look at you funny if you try to cite that as evidence that California wasn't dyed-in-the- wool Blue at the time.

<comment><USER12> That's a fair critique. I think my main point wasn't made clear by my comment: all states – even those we consider as Blue as California or as Red as Texas – won't necessarily stay their current color forever.

To discount any state as unchanging is doing a disservice to all US Citizens: public opinion changes, demographics change, politics change, and people change.

<comment><USER16> Just to illustrate that point, California was a Republican presidential stronghold up through 20 (EDIT: typo, 30) years ago; they won the state in every Presidential election through that year except 1964 starting with 1952.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I'm extremely curious what the cities who were working closely with Amazon think of this development, as now it seems that they'll be getting half the jobs for their concessions. Additionally, the reason cited for splitting their new HQ is the lack of enough tech talent, which means that their concessions may have been for naught if they didn't have enough talent for Amazon in the first place.

<comment><USER18> I doubt that even spineless politicians would give up the same concessions for half the jobs and investments.

<comment><USER19> See Foxconn

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> HQ2 was never going to be a true second HQ but now it's not even going to be close. Cities just fellated Amazon for a satellite office.

<comment><USER21> The only HQ is where the CEO sits.

<comment><USER22> What if the CEO has a standing desk?

Just kidding. What about completely remote companies, or companies where the CEO is remote?

<comment><USER23> How many companies exist where the CEO is remote? If you're being hired for that important of a job, you're almost certainly willing to move.

<comment><USER22> I know some, but the CEO is always also the founder.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> I'd bet money on the two being Crystal City, VA and Denver.

The DC suburb makes sense for an East Coast hub, and it's smart to be near the capital for DoD contracts. And Denver is a nice, growing tech city with an attractive lifestyle.

<comment><USER25> Crystal City is a nightmare from a commuting perspective and an awful place to live.

Its more or less a ghost town since BRAC moved out a bunch of agencies and contractors a few years ago. This had the effect of hollowing out what little independent retail / dining there was there as most of it catered to the office lunch crowd.

From a commuting perspective, its right across the river from DC which makes it very difficult to get to from a driving / bus perspective. Taking the metro is somewhat better but would require a transfer for many people.

<comment><USER26> On the other hand, having lots of available empty office space just ready to go sounds like a bonus. Retail will move back in once there are customers to serve.

<comment><USER27> And there is a large pool of young talent a couple of metro stops north in Arlington.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> oh-kumudo This drama is getting ridiculous. HQ2-1, and HQ2-2? What does HQ even mean then? Even if they are called HQ, it is hard for me to imagine they can function as one.

<comment><USER28> Sure, some business have multiple "HQs"...in that they split where some of their major divisions are "headquartered". For example, maybe the original HQ in Seattle is where Jeff B. sits, but maybe the crystal city HQ (if that's one of them) is where AWS - as a business/major division - is "headquartered", etc. Oh, and i would venture a guess that they likely will name them something like HQ1, HQ-East-1, HQ-West-1, HQ-South-1, etc. ;-)

<comment><USER29> with certain AMZN HQ services[0] only available in HQ1 / HQ-NorthWest-1

[0] like AMZN GetPromoted or AMZN WorkOnTheProjectYouWant

<comment><USER28> My dayjob employer is currently kicking off a 150-year project to validate whether the AMZN GetPromoted service is worthwhile to eventually implement internally. But, alas, already there are project delays. ;-)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> All these kneejerk comments about this being phase 3 in Bezos' grand plan to defraud America's wealthiest cities- I do not understand. No cities have committed anything to Amazon and can volunteer to walk away or attempt to renegotiate if they so wish. Not much of an grand master plan.

<comment><USER31> The crux of the issue is that every big metro center in North America gave Amazon a list of incentives they were willing to provide. Next time Amazon negotiates with any city for any development, it can mine this private treasure trove of extremely potent information about how much each city is willing to bend over.

Wouldn't you agree that knowledge is power?

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> Can't speak for the other cities but there's been a steady expansion of Amazon in Toronto.

I suspect in the end they'll keep expanding in a quiet and steady pace while never officially declaring a "HQ2" at all whilst the cities feud over who gets the title and keep handing out incentives.

<comment><USER33> You'd think the low salaries and easy immigration would have put TO over the top.

<comment><USER32> IIRC there was some concern that HQ2 should be on American soil or withstand the backlash of the current political climate.

<comment><USER34> Big companies are funny animals in that they appear on the surface to make short-term decisions to appease the market, but behind the scenes tend to plan out a decade or more. A good fifteen or more years before Boeing moved their HQ out of the Seattle area and moved significant production elsewhere, they were putting out messages to suburban governments where they had smaller plants to not count on them being around. I would bet Amazon or any other company thinking of a move of this magnitude has a plan that stretches well beyond 2020.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> How do bookies decide if they need to payout or not in this case?

<comment><USER36> What happens when a material event occurs that vastly changes the outcome is that they just return the money.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> I was hoping for a significant cooling of the Seattle housing market with a full fledged hq2, but it appears it will be seattle first for quite a while I'd guess.

<comment><USER38> The Seattle housing market is already cooling faster than anywhere in the country, and has been for a while (newspapers tend to be a few months behind in this type of news):

[https://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/seattle- ho...](https://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/seattle-home-sellers- seeing-new-reality-are-lowering-list-prices-faster-than-anywhere-else/)

<comment><USER37> Its got a very high perch to cool down from. There's definitely a seasonal element to the current slowdown - price drops are happening, but prices are still up 5% YOY. I'm hoping for a correction or at least 0% for a little bit.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> Why stop there? Just scatter HQ2 into every city and municipality dumb enough to give Amazon millions-billions in tax breaks and incentives.

<comment><USER40> GPS software will then guide you to the nearest HQ2 via anycast routing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> Another great example of why cities shouldn't be selling out their residents to attract one of these large companies there. They'll never get their value out of it. Here Amazon changes the game to half the benefits after most of the discussions of incentives have been had.

Side by side with this story, it's hard to see why states and cities are still willing to play ball: [https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/29/18027032/foxconn- wiscons...](https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/29/18027032/foxconn-wisconsin- plant-jobs-deal-subsidy-governor-scott-walker)

</comment><comment><USER42> So double the concessions?

<comment><USER43> He didn't become the world's richest shopkeeper by accident.

</comment></comment><comment><USER44> The article mentions first that the move is motivated by recruiting tech talent. Seattle is far-away in the eyes and minds of most Americans I would bet. Splitting means they are probably going after northeast and south/east.

Check out this population density map from the US census:

> > [https://www.census.gov/history/www/reference/maps/](https://www.census.gov/history/www/reference/maps/)

From the article:

"The driving force behind the decision to build two equal offices in addition to the company's headquarters in Seattle is recruiting enough tech talent, according to the person familiar with the company's plans. The move will also ease potential issues with housing, transit and other areas where adding tens of thousands of workers could cause problems."

</comment><comment><USER33> Here are two scales, two buckets, and two knives. Whoever bleeds the most, gets the HQ.

<comment><USER45> Yep. You might enjoy this take on it: [https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2018/2/6/in-the- amazon-h...](https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2018/2/6/in-the-amazon- hq2-contest-the-winner-might-actually-be-the-loser)

This thing already feels like a boondoggle and it hasn't even officially happened.

</comment></comment><comment><USER46> Would it be HQ2 and HQ3? or HQ2.1 and HQ2.2? I hope they don't end up like a hydra with 9 heads.

The whole HQ thing doesn't make any sense. It's just another office location.

<comment><USER47> If my experience with AWS has taught me anything, I'm sure someone will choose a clear and unambiguous acronym.

<comment><USER48> My vote goes for "S3" (Seattle's Secondary Site, of course)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER49> the Boston Atlanta Metropolitan Axis is clearly getting HQ2.

</comment><comment><USER50> My money's on DC area and NYC area. DC for the gov contracts, NYC for the talent pool (Columbia, Cornell Tech, and NYU) and transit network.

<comment><USER51> NYTimes claims you could be right!

[https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/05/technology/amazon- second-...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/05/technology/amazon-second- headquarters-split.html)

<comment><USER50> haha would you look at that!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER52> I have been wondering if any of the cities that proposed will make their proposals public once the final decision has been made. My own city, Orlando, released only a redacted version of the proposal. How should cities and states manage the tension between their duty to transparency and the competitive advantage of keeping proposals secret?

</comment><comment><USER53> Somewhere near DC is must to cater for DoD and other federal government contracts

<comment><USER54> Why? Most major defence contractors aren't HQed in or around DC.

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> So Amazon HQ2A and HQ2B?

</comment><comment><USER56> This leak would be a terrific way to catch a leaker, if delivered to a single individual under circumstances where all others present are aware it's a test.

</comment><comment><USER57> I've still got Newark on the brain. Assuming one half of HQ2 is in NoVa, Newark is a very easy train or flight away.

</comment><comment><USER58> I am pretty sure they decide to split into two and effectively double the benefits (tax) they will receive.

</comment><comment><USER59> Hope it comes down here to Miami. Imagine the talent pool! Easy access to south american engineers

<comment><USER60> There's very little "talent" native to Miami. As far as S.A engineers that's also probably a tough one...I mean staffing a HQ with foreigners is a tough sell, don't you think?

If anything Miami is still alluring to those across the US for warm weather, no income tax, and tanned guys/gals (or both?!). The Miami economy still is dominated by tourism and real estate unfortunately!

<comment><USER61> No income tax?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER62> The DC metro is as expensive as Seattle. Tough to recruit into those high cost of living areas.

</comment><comment><USER63> Looks like the github wsjUnblock repo got nuked at some point and the most recent version doesn't work on wsj anymore. Does anyone know if it's still alive (under active development) anywhere? If not I'll probably start poking around and see if I can get it working again.

<comment><USER64> You need to directly click on a twitter/FB WSJ shortlink while in incognito mode.

</comment></comment><comment><USER65> Creating a bookmark with the following text will get you around the paywall:

      javascript:window.location.href='https://m.facebook.com/l.php?u='+encodeURIComponent(window.location.href);

</comment><comment><USER66> Can't wait the battle for Amazon HQ3.

</comment><comment><USER67> So where is the city for Amazon HQ2? :)

</comment><comment><USER68> I guess they couldn't get Garbagetown, Kansas to defund their public school system enough for Jeff Bezos's liking.</comment>


New in Cassandra 3.0: Materialized Views - <AUTHOR> http://www.datastax.com/dev/blog/new-in-cassandra-3-0-materialized-views

<comment><USER2> Could be useful, it's a shame they're quite expensive to use on high-write tables.

<comment><USER3> Performance will be improved in later versions

<comment><USER4> I'm guessing that materialized views can be sped up if the distribution of the component row keys can be mirrored across tables, so that the materialization can be treated as local and no internode communication is necessary.

Having primary keys with identical node distribution keys is a recent set of commits...

<comment><USER3> Yes, although that is probably useful for only a very limited subset of use- cases for materialized views. There are, however, more general purpose improvements to the approach that are just more involved to implement (and have their own negative performance risks, that would need to be balanced)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> "Materialized views are not supported through Thrift"

<comment><USER6> Thrift has been essentially deprecated for quite a while now.

Either use CQL or the Binary Drivers.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Awesome. Welcome to 1998.

<comment><USER4> Where they had arbitrary linear cloud scaling ability?

Oh right, where you only had one 486 server to do 1 query / sec.</comment></comment>


Cornell Opens Archive of Bird Calls Going Back to 1929 - <AUTHOR> http://www.openculture.com/2013/01/cornell_launches_archive_of_150000_bird_calls_and_animal_sounds_with_recordings_going_back_to_1929.html <comment><USER2> Awesome. I've checked out the Macaulay library a few times in the past looking for samples for electronic music. It's a great resource, and has features like rating by audio quality. Check out the unearthly vocalizations of various Oropendolas:

[http://macaulaylibrary.org/search?&asset_format_id=1000&coll...](http://macaulaylibrary.org/search?&asset_format_id=1000&collection_type_id=1&layout=1&taxon=Psarocolius&taxon_id=12016342&taxon_rank_id=62&sort=21)

At around 0:25 in this recording is an example of what I mean, but each member of the genus has its own distinct calls/songs:

[http://macaulaylibrary.org/audio/12830](http://macaulaylibrary.org/audio/12830)

<comment><USER3> Pretty cool. Sounds like someone running their hands down the length of a piano.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> First thing I thought was: let's download that and make a game out of it; maybe use location data to start of easy with birds from the region, but I'm afraid it can't be used for commercial purposes (all mobile apps are classified as such by their documentation) without acquiring a license (which is understandable, but regrettable at the same time).;

</comment><comment><USER5> Would be great if there were a tensorflow project that would learn the calls and then could be used to identify birds in the wild :)

</comment><comment><USER6> I couldn't wait and a few years ago scraped their site: [http://blog.databigbang.com/the-call-of-the-web- scraper/](http://blog.databigbang.com/the-call-of-the-web-scraper/)

</comment><comment><USER7> if you like bird calls, take a second to visit xeno-canto.org, superb amateur birder site that collects audio of bird calls, via (i believe) an cc artist license and is totally free. Also, run by Dutch mathematicians!

</comment><comment><USER8> Reminds me of this algorithm competition to classify bird species from recordings: [https://www.kaggle.com/c/mlsp-2013-birds](https://www.kaggle.com/c/mlsp-2013-birds)

</comment><comment><USER9> Dead relevant comment in this thread: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12156328](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12156328)

<comment><USER10> Please don't post off-topic comments like this; instead, you can vouch for the dead comment by clicking on its timestamp to go to its page, then clicking 'vouch' at the top. (To do this requires being logged in and having more than 30 karma.)

<comment><USER9> Clicked around looking for such a feature, it was not apparent to me. Now that you pointed it out, I'll do it next time. I'd recommend making the "vouch" appear directly on the comment.</comment></comment></comment>


No, California Law Review, Food Plating Does Not Deserve Copyright Protection - tech-historian https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200602/13143644631/no-california-law-review-food-plating-does-not-deserve-copyright-protection.shtml <comment><AUTHOR> As everything gets automated and jobs become scarce, one of the few remaining ways to make money is to create intellectual property.

So I think there should be more IP, not less.

<comment><USER2> [https://archive.org/details/engineersandpri01veblgoog/page/n...](https://archive.org/details/engineersandpri01veblgoog/page/n63/mode/2up)

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income)

<comment><USER3> Generally, I don't like when people reply with only links to someone else unless that person specifically requested a link or links. What the second poster intends to communicate through this is not always clear in my experience.

I assume that you believe basic income is a better solution than intellectual property. But I'm not seeing why you posted the first link.

<comment><USER2> Veblen notes that engineering automation progressively transfers income from labour to technologists to capitalists.

Absent a shared wealth approach -- a national capital allotment being one form of a UBI -- you'll have to pursue ever more tortured, and toxic, definitions of property, enclosures, and ham-fisted and draconian exclusionary regimes.

If your creatives and labourers are assured sufficient consistent income, IP becomes a ... patently ... irrellevant burdenous obstruction. Which it is.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: a social network conducted entirely through email - <AUTHOR> http://tagsubject.com

<comment><USER2> You really need an example on the homepage. I read the opening description and still don't feel like I understand how it works. What kind of mail would I get? Would I be able to turn it off? You say 'social network' - so, do I have friends, or is this just a public discussion forum?

<comment><AUTHOR> I would suggest you set up a throwaway yahoo email and email the site. I understand it may be confusing but all discussion happens through email and the focus shouldn't be the homepage. We can demo thru email once you set up a throwaway account. In addition, you can use the throwaway email to actually use the site if you have an aversion to using your personal email.

<comment><USER3> There is still a ton of information that you could provide to the new users visiting your home page. It is your job to convince the users to send that first email. Suggesting that people create throw away email accounts does not sound like the best user on-boarding process. This is where examples, or better descriptions on your home page would help.

<comment><AUTHOR> Okay. Good point. How would you describe it through words? Keeping in mind people don't want to use their personal emails. Suggestions welcome.

<comment><USER4> > How would you describe it through words?

That's your job. :)

Put it out there, be as succinct as you can, and tweak it along the way. No shortcuts here.

<comment><AUTHOR> I dunno...seems succinct enough: pick a topic, send us an email, and we forward emails to you from emailers discussing same topic. I only suggested creating a throwaway because people worry about spam.

<comment><USER5> How about illustrating the whole process? Cartoons are easy to understand.

<comment><AUTHOR> Jesus just get in there and start emailing buddy. :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Interesting. I found myself reluctant to start using this just because of the fact that I'd have to use an e-mail address, but I ended up submitting a topic anyway from one of my secondary e-mail accounts, just because I'm interested in participating in new ideas. I do wonder though, how many people who would otherwise try out the service, are stopped in their tracks due to the mandatory e-mail aspect?

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you for your response and thanks for checking the service out. It may be prohibitive for many people who do rely on a personal email account rather than a secondary one.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> I can't wait for the social network that's conducted entirely through beer at a pub.

<comment><USER6> That would be pretty sweet!

<comment><USER7> right? instead of 'poking' girls you like, you can buy them a drink.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Stock wordpress install? Come on guys

<comment><AUTHOR> yep, it's a bare-bones design. The purpose if for you to communicate through email with other users. The blog is merely for posting topics.

<comment><AUTHOR> from the forwards, select those email addresses you wish to communicate with, and ignore the spam email addresses

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> What problem is this attempting to solve?

<comment><AUTHOR> None at all. Just communicate via email (per the website instruction) and get tips ($) for interesting discussion.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Wouldn't you get a ton of spam?

<comment><AUTHOR> It is likely...but we don't want to weed emails in order to preserve the experience. You're still gonna get a lot of insightful discussion. But unfortunately, spam would come with the territory.

<comment><USER11> Understandable. Wouldn't that mean that spam will roll very quickly to many email accounts? Wouldn't spam engines start picking up application emails as spam emails(assuming once some discussion goes rogue with spammers the email receivers mark the conversation as spam)? Or am i missing something here.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for your response. Just select from those email address that hold potential for interesting discussion and communicate with them directly. Forwarding enables you to pick and choose from people dropping in to comment on the topic.

<comment><USER11> Cool. It does bring a new way of discussion to the table. But was wondering what would normally be an users behaviour? You could selectively reply to it, mute it or mark it as spam. Any trends data you got so far to throw light on this?

<comment><AUTHOR> Honestly, only a couple people have emailed in so I can't offer you anything concrete. The goal is for users to reply to the forwards so that anyone involved in the topic is updated.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Yes, a Six-Figure Income Means You're Affluent - <AUTHOR> http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-06-03/yes-a-six-figure-income-means-you-re-affluent <comment><USER2> Yes, 100k is affluent if your not married, but if your wife doesn't work, even in little towns, 2 wage earners averaging 53k is 106k which is more than 100k.

<comment><USER3> If youre not married but have large medical bills and or student loans its pretty easy to get bashed back into poverty. When at $25,000 copay is considered reasonable youre only one illness or injury away from being shoved back into poverty.

<comment><USER2> It's funny no politician is talking about limiting medical expenses for people.

Free market, oligopoly, single payer I don't really care. premiums, co-pays and deductibles should be normalized based on income.

Same with college expenses, student loans. Obviously not perfect but way better than the way it is now.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> If you make 100k and are single and live in la or sf that 100k is getting torn up pretty well between high rent high transportation costs and high taxes as well as high food costs you wint feel affluent on that out here.

<comment><USER4> I think affluence is also used in wealth management to denote what level of wealth the customer has. "Affluent" is basically in between whatever the average net worth is and "high net worth individual". So it is kind of representitive of people who are in the 90-98% percentile. If those people happen to live in large city and not have any liquid assets, that is a different question.</comment></comment>


Why Is China Building These Gigantic Structures In the Middle of the Desert? - <AUTHOR> http://gizmodo.com/5859081 <comment><USER2> they think it's Sim City</comment>


Entrepreneurs are not different from VCs: both need a portfolio - mac-r

Today it's so easy to build a portfolio of MVPs for different ideas and then pick things that take off. Do you agree that such approach is reasonable at the early stage? Are there any books on this topic?<p>Lean methodology is simple and intuitive, it became formal and there is a ton of books about it. Why there is no popular framework for managing a portfolio of ideas/MVPs? I think it's the next big thing like lean canvas, customer development and etc. <comment><AUTHOR> I agree completely. I have a two-step process for managing a portfolio of ideas: 1) develop a set of criteria by which to evaluate ideas so that you can compare them apples to apples, and 2) be rigorous and honest when evaluating your ideas. I use a trello board based on the following "idea funnel": [https://www.dropbox.com/s/7zscq79ybhjrxni/Idea_Funnel.png?dl...](https://www.dropbox.com/s/7zscq79ybhjrxni/Idea_Funnel.png?dl=0)

Worth noting that ideas aren't worth much without execution: [http://nducoff.com/post/128443632/what-you-are-doing-is- not-...](http://nducoff.com/post/128443632/what-you-are-doing-is-not-unique- and-your-idea-is)

</comment><comment><USER2> If you can't be dedicated to you idea then why should an investor be dedicated to you? No matter how easy it is to BUILD concepts - you will never get better at EXECUTING if you don't stick with one idea. The ability to sell, stabilize and innovate on a product is much more important then the creation or ideation. People who hop from one idea to another quickly are red flags for investors. Why can't you stick with a product? Do you have poor cofounders? What about future hardships? Will you run then? Being a good programmer is half the battle. The rest is about being a driving force for your cofounders and startup.

<comment><USER3> I totally agree. You nailed it! And being a driving force for your cofounders and startup with a vision is probably more important than being a programmer. IMHO.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I think it varies from case to case. I wouldn't generalize it.There have been cases where things which started as a side project at a startup have become their main product.

At the same time there have been cases where startups didn't take off because of focusing on too many things.

So I think it's always better to work on complimentary ideas which might blend well together. Working on totally unrelated ideas at the same time would spoil the show. Again, I might be totally wrong too.

<comment> mac-r do you know any good examples of complimentary ideas?

in terms of unrelated ideas: Max Levchin started Glow and Affirm almost at the same time, Elon runs two companies.

additionally, at the lower level, programming patterns are almost the same.

<comment><USER4> I was talking about early stage entrepreneurs. Working on multiple ideas once you are successful or have enough experience sounds logical but initially that might be a hurdle.

Check this article for examples. Really good one [http://ryanhoover.me/post/98567029388/startup-side- projects](http://ryanhoover.me/post/98567029388/startup-side-projects)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Investors aren't going to want to deal with you if you have a bunch of side things going. If your solo I would say you can work on a bunch of projects until you've found something others want to work with you on it. If you want investors and you have a team you should focus until it's obvious what your working on isn't going to work.

</comment><comment><USER6> If you find it that easy to build a portfolio of MVPs, you're probably not building meaningful MVPs.

</comment><comment><USER3> In my view, taking the portfolio approach is a sign of not having enough faith in any one direction.

Entrepreneurs generally have sound visions in a few specific directions unlike VCs who are generally hopeful about a wide variety of stuff but will never bet on a very select few.

<comment> mac-r but we all know, that most ideas change significantly. if there is enough capacity of the team, why not launching several things? time is the most expensive resource. when you do a problem - solution fit several directions & products can be tried.

everyone has vision, even people who don't start companies. when you start a company you want it to succeed, because 90% of them fail. sticking with one idea doesn't make sense. maybe it was true 10 - 5 years ago. Now there are so many cloud services, which help to roll out things in days instead of months.

</comment></comment><comment> mac-r Hi all, please, share your opinion.</comment>


Ask HN: How do you create your databases? - <AUTHOR> Let's keep it to traditional entity/relationship databases.
How do you create you databases? Say that you are starting a new project, do you write all the SQL to generate dbs, tables views by hand, or do you use tools to, for instance, graphically create the tables and and then generate the SQL from that?
If so, what tools do you use? <comment><USER2> Build models using an ORM with a migration facility.

<comment><AUTHOR> any example?

<comment><USER2> Django, Laravel</comment></comment></comment>


A Design for a Distributed Transaction Layer for Google App Engine - <AUTHOR> http://danielwilkerson.com/dist-trans-gae.html

<comment><USER2> I would much rather see effort made by google to provide two backends datastores. The existing (primarily) key based bigtable, as well as true relational database. Ideally they could even provide the relational DB service where users would need miniscule knowledge for basic DB administration (replication/backups) and simplified administration for sharding. Ideally if the there was a way for the records to be cross polinated, even better.

<comment><AUTHOR> I doubt that will happen any time soon. Apparently, relational databases don't scale very well.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> This has been implemented in Java in userland:

[http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=31...](http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=313#c10)</comment>


U.S. Software developer wages fall 2% as workforce expands - <AUTHOR> https://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9239308/Software_developer_wages_fall_2_as_workforce_expands <comment><USER2> This does not necessarily mean that wages are falling. It could be that a lot of the new jobs created are "beginner" jobs with lower wages that pull the average down, but the existing jobs still pay what they used to or more.

<comment><USER3> What is / will drive wages down is making the process of becoming an (experienced) programmer easier, by lowering the per case work needing done and lowering the barrier to entry (compare writing C++ in 2002 to 2012), and the resources available) and that most use cases are best suited by high level dynamic languages like Python or Ruby, which have significantly less work investment to get results compared to old favorites like Java or C.

 _Most_ people don't need a tech savant. As that becomes more apparent as it becomes a game of legos putting blocks together rather than having to plastic cast mold every block yourself, I expect mean salary to drop.

<comment> guard-of-terra What's up with C++ in 2002 and today? If you knew C with classes in 2002 (MFC style) you were good, if you knew GoF patterns you were elite.

Today you have to know STL, auto/smart/shared pointers, all kinds of right casts, you have to know boost (a huge code base) and on top of that you are expected to know C++0x (or how is it called?) with its lambdas, autos and stuff, while still understanding the whole "classic" C++.

(But at least nobody cares about MFC and ATL anyway)

And don't forget templates of templates of templates which crept into many code bases. And 64-bit (or ARM) is now reality which you should account for.

If anything, you have to know ten times more in C++ in 2012 compared to 2002.

<comment><USER4> Your example is flawed.

C++0x is easy to learn. For example, autos is just the ability to say "auto myFloat = 5.0;" and it will default to float.

Lambdas in C++ is fairly easy. right casts? trivial [especially with auto].

Templates of templates of templates are easy as well.

64-bit? ARM? The whole point of C\C++ is to make yourself not assembly. You shouldn't worry about 64-bit vs 32-bit as long as you use proper things.

<comment><USER3> This, my point was that you can use C++ make_shared (and eventually C++14 make_unique) instead of manual management, you can get away with a lot more reference passing instead of of raw pointer manipulation, the std now has an actual hashmap implementation now, auto and lambdas make things faster, etc.

Modern C++ vs second iteration standard C++ in the wild west days when I was first learning about it is an entirely different affair.

I also contest having to know boost - I work in some KDE projects and boost is only a dependency on around 1 in 4 that I have found. Though qt in many ways becomes the surrogate stack to learn.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I really hate DOL stats. They have a menu of jobs, and you have to slot people into them. Often you have jobs that are halfway between 2 and you don't know which is "better", so you just pick one (e.g. I write a lof of excel macros, does that make me a programmer or an analyst? To me, it's obviously not a programmer, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's not applied universally). Also, categorizing people is often left to the discretion of the employer, and sometimes they have an incentive to lie (R&D tax credit anyone?). These stats include tech support and also capture a wide range from "Web Developers" to "Computer and Information Research Scientists".

<http://www.bls.gov/soc/2010/soc151130.htm>

</comment><comment><USER6> Am I the only one driven crazy by reporting that states an ambiguous "average" for something asymmetric like salary, when the choice between median and mean as a measure of centrality makes all the difference in the world?

<comment><USER7> You are not alone, amigo.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> The Dice salary survey says salaries went up. I wonder which is right: <http://media.dice.com/report/2013-2012-dice-salary-survey/>

<comment><USER9> To compare, you'd need to know the statistical and systematic uncertainties of each measurement.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> I think this has due to an expansion of entry level jobs. ie. Code/App Academy, people learning Ruby on Rails and going to entry level jobs. Since tools are getting better and better, there is an expansion on the lower level of engineering. They should have been measuring people with the same level of experience (e.g. 5 years or experience), and see how they stack up.

My personal experience, and from what I have seen around for experienced devs, expect a 5%-6% increases annually (few percentage points above inflation). It is never linear though. You usually you might see this increase as a modest early 3%-4% on your current job, and then if you switch jobs every 3 years or so, get another 10% or sometimes more from your new employer. This is for experienced engineers (5+ years). If you are very early in your career you probably will see higher jumps on your early years.

<comment><USER11> _Code/App Academy, people learning Ruby on Rails and going to entry level jobs_

I kind of doubt it's Code Academy.

This article as of Jan 2013 said Udacity (which IMO is more rigorous than Code Academy) has only placed 20 people and Coursera only a 'handful'.

[http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732433920457817...](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324339204578173421673664106.html)

 _About 350 companies have signed up to access Udacity's job portal in recent months, though it has placed just about 20 students so far._

 _But the company (Coursera) matched only a handful of students in its months- long pilot_

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> This title seems very misleading. There's a difference between "U.S. Software developer wages [falling] 2%" and the average falling by 2%. Since the demand for software engineers is so high, perhaps companies have been lowering the bar for how qualified an engineer needs to be in order to be hired. Less qualified generally means paid less. That's just a theory but it's what I think is happening.

I've heard from industry sources that the same engineer is worth as much as 7% more than he was last year (not including the experience he gained since last year). I'd believe it. I think the qualification bar is just lowered because the demand is so high and supply so low.

</comment><comment><USER13> I wonder how much of the $2k decrease could be contributed to geography? I think we are seeing more opportunities for technical jobs throughout the US, lowering the percentage of developers that need to be paid a Silicon Valley wage.

<comment><USER14> I really wish they would weigh geographic location into their stats. I live in TN where around half that $99k average wage is the norm for CS grads, and that's considered a good salary. Cost of living is much lower here than in Silicon Valley, so it partially evens out. A country-wide average is really no help to anyone with such disparity.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> U.S. Software productivity falls 200% as legions of the technically illiterate conspire to make it look like they are doing work they can't actually do.

</comment><comment><USER16> So does this mean the U.S. needs to issue more work visas?

<comment><USER17> Yes, because there is a shortage of X workers until wages hit the federally mandated minimum.

<comment><USER18> Two related thoughts that always occur to me in these discussions:

* Many (I wouldn't say most but at least a sizeable minority) American programmers and IT workers display reservations regarding the policy of issuing visas such as H1Bs for a large number of foreign workers, because it's perceived as unnecessary or perceived as catering purely to the interests of megacorps. I wonder, do those software developers elsewhere) have a problem with buying products manufactured in China or other countries with low wages? Buying stuff made in China, including from American companies that outsourcing to China, effectively lowers American blue collar wages below the mandated minimum.

* It seems a lot of people on HN are favourable to policies allowing working from home. Most companies still don't have such policies, but I suspect that if telecommuting ever becomes commonplace (e.g. due to software development process or technological changes), it will depress salaries far more than the measly 60~80k H1Bs per year have ever done. For every H1B holder there are certainly many others who are skillful enough programmers and speak English, but cannot work in the US due to the limited number of visas, or don't have a degree, or don't want to take the risk of working under the constraints of H1B, or simply don't want to move to the US for any old reason.

<comment><USER19> I think you're overly focused on global economics.

H1B abuse presents _local_ economic problems. Wages for programmers working in San Francisco are higher than wages for the same programmers in, say, Lexington, both are higher than China, and all are related to local cost of living.

If a company abuses H1Bs to import cheap programmers from China to San Francisco and keep paying them Chinese rates, San Francisco programmer wages are depressed and SF programmers are disadvantaged relative to the entire local San Francisco economy.

Note I keep saying "abuse". The problem people fear with H1Bs is that their nature opens them to abuse. Not abuse by the immigrant programmers, but abuse by the corporations employing them, which can use the conditions of the H1B program to essentially hold immigrant workers hostage in below-market-rate jobs.

I think you'll find that if you talk to programmers reasonably informed about the nature of H1B visas, most will have no general objection at all to programmers immigrating to the US from China, India, or anywhere else. Only to the particular circumstances of the H1B program, which break local market forces.

<comment><USER18> Outsourcing manufacturing also depresses local salaries. It's just that it's not very visible anymore. I think it's fair to assume that, out of all unemployed Americans, there are some who would happily take a factory job paying $X; but $X is too high compared to the equivalent Chinese worker salary.

I totally understand that some programmers feel more competition is not in their best interest. If they would just say they are protecting their turf, then I'd understand. Doctors and lawyers limit the number of licenses, certain trades restrict their jobs to unionized workers, etc.

I'm just wondering if their objections have other grounds, e.g. moral or public policy principles, and in that case whether those principles would apply to e.g. blue collar workers (or phone technical support, or farm workers etc), and whether they would be willing to pay more for US-made products in order to support American-based manufacturing.

> If a company abuses H1Bs to import cheap programmers from China to San > Francisco and keep paying them Chinese rates,

I think you're resorting to unnecessary hyperbole here. There's public data on H1B salaries and they're far above median Chinese salaries.

In any case, my question above concedes the assumption that programmer salaries are depressed to some extent.

<comment><USER19> > _Outsourcing manufacturing also depresses local salaries._

No, it moves jobs, generally entire categories of jobs, to lower-cost areas. If someone wishes to continue working in that type of job, they must do it in a place with lower cost of living.

> _I totally understand that some programmers feel more competition is not in > their best interest._

That has nothing to do with anything I said, and in fact I pretty clearly articulated that such a view has nothing to do with the fear some people have of the H1B program.

> _I think you're resorting to unnecessary hyperbole here._

I think you're reading things into my comment that are not there, because you wrongly assume _I_ oppose H1B visas.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> brown9-2 What is the margin of error for a statistic like this? Seems like 2% could be within measurement error, unless the DOL data is counting every single software job in the US.</comment>


Review: The Huawei Matebook X Pro (2019) is the best laptop I've ever used ever - <AUTHOR> https://thenextweb.com/plugged/2019/03/19/review-the-huawei-matebook-x-pro-2019-is-the-best-laptop-ive-ever-used-ever/ <comment><USER2> My favourite feature is where all of your keystrokes are logged and your (stupid) webcam in the arrow key records you and uploads your information to a server in China.

But cool, virtually no bezels!</comment>


Is the tech bubble popping? Ping pong offers an answer - <AUTHOR> http://www.wsj.com/articles/is-the-tech-bubble-popping-ping-pong-offers-an-answer-1462286089 <comment><USER2> Last time I went through a series of interview to find a new job, I systematically asked to go to the bathroom. I believe male's toilet cleanliness is a good indicator of how employees perceive their workplaces. Said simply, if it's not clean then I expect employees to give poor considerations to each other or to the work they produce. You can be fooled by what recruiters tell you in the interviewing room, the perks they offer (free food, ping-pong etc.) but I think a company always show signs it can't control while you're in their precinct.

<comment><USER3> Funny, I use the quality of the toilet paper as a proxy for how the company treats its regular employees.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> These cultures are all artificial. I've worked at a handful of companies that all brought in the ping pong/foosball/shuffle board, and nobody plays them. It's always a ghost town.

Instead, employees will bring in their own toys like card games and basketball hoops, because that's what they like.

The culture happens because the employees themselves have the latitude and money to make it happen. The foosball table that they are all trying to mimic happened because some ceo/founder at a successful company always wanted one and brought one in for himself. Now it's offered as some kind of perk even though nobody likes the game. The perk should be extreme latitude and high pay. The culture will happen all by itself.

<comment><USER5> Hmm. We play the shit out of our ping pong tables.

Engineers, product guys, engineering managers, department heads, everyone together, usually four up plus some onlookers. Not artificial at all.

We play the card and table games at each others' homes, usually after sous vide steaks or barbecue.

Our hangouts are nothing like Billions. :-)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> "If you don't have a ping-pong table, you're not a tech company," says Sunil Rajasekar, chief technology officer at Lithium Technologies, a San Francisco software startup."

I really hope it was tongue in cheek quote out of context.

<comment><USER7> This clearly illustrates what's wrong with the San Francisco tech culture: it is stuck in the 20th century, and assumes that 'tech' means white or Asian male in their 20's.

Actual cutting edge tech companies order foosball tables.

<comment><USER8> Maglev air hocky is where it's at.

(Not sure that is a thing but it should be).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I always thought the main purpose of ping pong tables was to make it easy for HR to find the employees that should be let off first in case of cut backs.

<comment><USER10> Oh, no, you're thinking of unlimited vacation policies.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> This blew me away:

"Venture capitalist Michael Cardamone, the tournament's co-organizer, approves of young companies buying tables with venture funds. "You absolutely should," he says. "It's part of building culture.""

<comment><USER12> It makes sense in terms of cost to benefit. A ping pong table is a few hundred dollars at most. An employee performing well is $100,000 at minimum.

Little things like free food and ping pong tables actually offer a massive return on investment.

<comment><USER13> Who are these people who play ping pong during work hours? I want to finish my work and go home. If I have a break, I want to go outside and get some sun and air because I hate being inside all day. I'm not looking for a frat.

<comment><USER14> Likely people who enjoy taking a break at some point during the day and also enjoy playing ping pong? I don't see how going outside to "get some sun" is objectively any better in general.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> > "It does make a psychological statement to the founders and employees that > we're not your father's company"

No kidding. My father's company wouldn't instill a culture where the expectation is to work 80+ hours a week and then try to (inadequately) offset it with shitty little perks like a ping-pong table.

</comment><comment><USER16> Had to check if I was reading Onion's article.

<comment><USER17> I came to the comments to see if I was the only one.

<comment><USER16> This kinda perfectly aligned with current episodes of HBO's Silicon Valley.

<comment><USER17> Ha - for a minute, I had to check it wasn't April 1.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> "Building culture" seems like an euphemism for romanticizing the workplace to squeeze more productivity out of employees without spending too much money on supplementing salaries.

Interestingly, It's kinda like academia in that way. Academics romanticizing research as being some kind of virtuous or nobel pursuit to justify their shitty wages and lack of personal time. (source, I am an academic)

I guess we all become devout monks of our own domain at some point in our careers until we realize the bullshit "culture" that was perpetuated, ultimately in the employer's interest.

</comment><comment><USER19> I'm surprised people are so negative here about ping pong tables and such.

In my experience, it's true. It does build culture. In our case, Foosball is a place were employees can bond with each other that transcends business boundaries. Marketing and engineering people both like Foosball - same can not be said for a lot of other extracurriculars.

We even hold tournaments during company time that at least 3/4 of the company chooses to play in.

When you are spending at least 1/3 of your time every day with the same people, I think it is healthy for you to occasionally do something together that is not work. I assume the people here who head straight home also have never gone out after work for drinks with their co-workers or gone to a sports game with them, or anything like that. Foosball and ping pong provide an opportunity to do that.

In fact, as a manager I often challenge my team members to a game of foosball when I get a sense something isn't right and it gives me an opportunity to chat with then 1:1 without feeling like an intervention.

Should you buy a $1300 foosball table when your company is not making money? IMHO, absolutely not. But if you have a good sales month, go for it. I'd rather be in a company where people get to know each other than one where everyone sits quietly at their desk all day and leaves just as quietly at the end.

Then again, I hold a different world view than some other people. I think that a FU money exit is unlikely for most, and getting a four hour a day job without a pay cut is unlikely for most, so if you're going to spend 1/3 of your life at work, a fair measure of success is if you can actually be happy while you are in the office.

</comment><comment><USER20> Can we use the classic metric of aeron chair sales?

<comment><USER21> Do they switch to stools in bad times?

<comment><USER22> Standing desks.

<comment><USER23> I was going to make a crack about how standing desks could get expensive, and then I checked Amazon and was impressed.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Well, this indicator is not the worst one of all time. That record is probably still held by the price of butter in Bangladesh. [1] Seriously, all you need to read from this article is the following quote:

Mark Cannice, a University of San Francisco professor, issues a quarterly index of venture-capitalist confidence. "I put more faith in venture capitalist insights and confidence," he says, "than I would in ping-pong-table sales."

[1] [http://www.investopedia.com/articles/stocks/08/stock- market-...](http://www.investopedia.com/articles/stocks/08/stock-market- indicators.asp)

<comment><USER25> I wouldn't

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> _" Startups pay up to $2,300 for a high-end Butterfly-brand table."_

Oh shit we've been doing it wrong. When PacketZoom moved to it's current office space (with a bit of spare room), we plonked down ~$130 for something like this bad boy.. [http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productI...](http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12152583) and put it on top of an ikea table we inherited from the previous occupants. Perfectly good playing surface with decent bounce and no obvious defects after a year of use:

</comment><comment><USER27> I work at a big tech company. They don't provide table tennis, but every building has one or two, or more. I find that a game is better for me to get a boost than the coffee. But i still drink the coffee.

Interestingly, I rarely played when I was in a business role, but ever since I switched to a tech role I've played every day. I bought two paddles as well, it's some kind of metamorphosis.

</comment><comment><USER28> The article mentions a few companies that used to buy ping-pong tables and now they stopped - but surely you can only buy so many ping pong tables until you don't need any more? It's not like you can be buying X tables per month, forever. You will either run out of people interested in playing, or space for them - or both.

</comment><comment><USER29> Is it a symbol or an actual game that's used? I've had them in many offices but rarely seen them used.

To me the ping pong table and exposed surfaces in startups reflect wood paneling in law firms. It's symbolism rather than functionality. Symbols do matter.

</comment><comment><USER30> the graph venture capital vs.ping pong tables reminded me of this [http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious- correlations](http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations)

</comment><comment><USER31> But what happens when those companies already have a ping pong table or five?

I mean there's a limit to how many ping pong tables Twitter wants to load into their office.

</comment><comment><USER32> Here's the thing though. If nobody invests based on ping pong offers but you do, then the gain for your successful bets should be a lot higher.

</comment><comment><USER33> not really insightful, but it sparked my interest, so I'll leave this google trends search there

[https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=startup%20bubble%2C%...](https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=startup%20bubble%2C%20tech%20bubble%2C%20housing%20bubble&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT-2)

make of it what you will.

</comment><comment><USER34> I've found it's easier to have a conversation whilst playing pool.. Maybe others are opting for this too? :)

</comment><comment><USER17> Correlation or Coincidence? I get how they got to this conclusion, but I think latter.

</comment><comment><USER35> That ping pong table chart is largely useless

</comment><comment><USER36> I think they've saturated the market...</comment>


Chrome crosses 5% market share threshhold, IE and FF drop - <AUTHOR> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9150258/Chrome_snatches_share_from_IE_Firefox?taxonomyId=18

<comment><USER2> I have been using Chrome more and more since they added extensions.</comment>


Diagnosis: Unsolved Cases (Reader's invited to diagnose unsolved medical cases) - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/series/diagnosis-unsolved-cases <comment><AUTHOR> This is a fascinating approach to take reader input to diagnose medical problems that many doctor's haven't been able to diagnose problems. So far, there don't seem to be any solved cases discussed though...</comment>


Astronomers discover unusual monster galaxy in the early universe - <AUTHOR> https://phys.org/news/2020-02-astronomers-unusual-monster-galaxy-early.html <comment><USER2> How do they get information about stellar formation history from a single observation?

<comment><USER3> The used a series of observations across a broad spectrum I didn't read the paper, but I suspect the number of observations was quite large.

<comment><USER2> Thanks. But I meant that they only see the thing at one time. So talking about events over billions of years seems iffy.

<comment><USER4> Only an amateur observer and occasional paper browser, but my general take is that there are an awful lot of prior models of everything from the stellar nucleophysics up through environmental effects in nurseries, nebulae, galaxies, clusters, etc.

Years and years of observations, hypothesizing, and refining with even more observations combine to give a halfway decent storyline of many processes at all scales.

These are then fit against new observations and either refined or modified or expanded to give new data a home as well.

All in all, a very cool example of the scientific process working itself out just as it should and can.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Google Nest - <AUTHOR> https://store.google.com/us/category/google_nest <comment><USER2> They need to chill out with those transition effects... scrolling through the header felt insanely weird to me and I had to spend like a minute investigating why.</comment>


Ask HN: First freelance job. Any tips on contracts? - <AUTHOR>

I am talking with a small company for my first freelancing job.  This will be my first chance to work (paid) outside of a large company.  The most intimidating part about it is the contract and terms.  I am wondering if any of you have any tips or know of any good books on that subject.  I have a pretty good idea of the terms that I want.  Should I get a lawyer for this?  There's a chance I could sell the product to other companies, but I'm not sure about that, and I don't want to mention it to the client in case it doesn't work out that way.  However, I want to protect myself if I can sell it.  Thanks for your insight. <comment><USER2> IANAL, this is not legal advice. If you want to do this by the books, get a lawyer. If you want to wing it, take the advice. This is my experience contracting for small to medium business and startups. YMMV, especially with large companies.

Contracts mostly don't matter. Communication matters. Getting paid matters. Everything is negotiable.

The wikipedia article on "work for hire" is informative. Read it. You (generally) have to specifically sign away rights to anything you create, so if you want to resell, you don't need permission, because you already own the copyright. But it will kill your reputation if you screw them.

Take deposits. Get paid +10 days. Work your way into trusting them. Stop working once you get a certain amount of hours ahead of your last invoice, until the check arrives. For a new client, the amount of credit I will extend is about 5 hours. For an established client, I still try to keep it under 40-50 hours.

</comment><comment><USER3> First thing to know is - there is no such thing as a "standard contract". It's always useful to have a lawyer look over a contract before you sign it. Then - never be afraid to request changes. I've found employers are usually happy to make reasonable contract changes and clarifying things like termination notice periods can benefit both sides.

I've been freelancing since 2002. Some of the common "gotchas" I've seen in contracts to look out for:

1\. Anti-competitive clauses (eg. After you work for us you can't work for a competitor for a certain amount of time). I never agree to these and fortunately here in Australia they're illegal in most circumstances.

2\. IP ownership This relates to your question. I've found employers are most concerned about lock-in. They want to make sure any project work you deliver is their's to use and modify as they please when you're gone. Not unreasonable. It's when they ask for exclusive ownership that you need to be careful. I've often added a clause that distinguishes between project specific deliverables which can be exclusive and the tools and techniques you develop to deliver the project which you share but can also take with you. I've never had an employer refuse that.

3\. Termination clauses Make sure the timeframe for termination (by either party) is in reasonable proportion to the contract term. Eg. I had one contract with (initially) a 1 hour notice period for terminating a six month contract. I asked them if they'd mind extending it to 2 weeks and they were happy to do so. Remember, it's protection for both sides.

</comment><comment><USER4> I am not an attorney, but I have negotiated both sides of freelance software agreements in the past.

Has the company you will be working with hired any freelancers/contractors in the past? If so, they may have an agreement they've used in the past. Starting with their agreement may save you some time because it will usually already include the stuff that is important to them so you know all that upfront.

In the case that the company doesn't have a preferred agreement, here is a pretty straightforward work-for-hire agreement template that is well annotated and may be helpful:

www.jian.com/software/Contracts/Work-for-Hire-Website-Development.pdf

Things get more complicated if you actually want to retain IP rights (i.e. be able to sell the product you are building to other companies as you mention) since your contract will need to clearly lay out who owns what. I would definitely consider consulting an attorney if that is a route you would like to go down.

</comment><comment><USER5> I'd recommend writing your own contract/agreement if you can. Keep it short and simple, what you'll do, how much you'll get paid, _when_ you'll get paid. Also, that you own the code.

I'd recommend being up front about possible reselling. Your customer may gripe about it, but better to talk it out now than make an enemy out of your first customer later. Surprises are bad.

Another option is to find a standard agreement. The other guy mentioned one, there is a book from Nolo Press,

[http://www.nolo.com/product.cfm/objectID/2C02C865-21E7-497C-...](http://www.nolo.com/product.cfm/objectID/2C02C865-21E7-497C-9DDDBA058175FFA1/310/266/)

and there are surely others on the web.

Be careful about Work For Hire. I believe a Work For Hire agreement transfers ownership of your code to the purchaser. Not what you want in this case.

<comment><USER6> In Germany I have heard writing one's one contract can have disadvantages: if you happen to include anything that later turns out to be "illegal", it will be interpreted against the person who wrote the contract. "illegal" not meaning something you would be punished for, but there are some things you can not write in a contract (for example "the client agrees to work as a slave for the other party for the rest of his life" - a contract has to be "appropriate").

IANAL, though - not sure how much it really matters, it is just something I have heard.

It might be good to have a checklist for things to watch out for.

I usually try to change the parts about who owns the right to the code. I don't mind the client to be allowed to do whatever he wants with the code, but I don't want to be prevented from using my code. It is hard to describe exactly, but I try to be explicitly allowed to keep using standard practices of coding. Otherwise, a client could put my out of business for good after the first project (I guess that is paranoid, but I just want to get that right), because he owns the rights of my "for loop pattern".

Another thing is accountability. German law knows several degrees of accountability, something like "neglect" and "accidents" (not sure how to translate it). It is possible to make the contract tighter than the standard law, so that you are only accountable for neglect, but not accidents. (roughly something like that...). Also maybe one could write in the contract something along the lines of the client being responsible for testing the software?

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Getting paid out can be painful. Make sure do everything possible to make that easy. Properly document your time/efforts and send proper invoices at the proper time.

<comment><USER8> Definitely document your time - very well, I like web-based apps like Freshbooks to handle my time tracking and invoicing.

Also, make sure your communication/planning between yourself and the client is fully documented. Often times what the client says, and what they actually want, are two entirely different things. You may need to fall back on your previous communication quite often - or at least have a place where you can outline "here is what is going to be done."

I find the combination of Freshbooks, Beanstalk, Basecamp and Highrise to be unstoppable.

<comment><USER9> I work for FreshBooks, and I second this motion. :)

But in all seriousness: 1\. Expect to lose money on your first couple projects. 2\. Treat your first 10 clients as if they had a 1 in 2 chance of becoming a major deity.

I'm not exaggerating at all here. Your first clients will know that they are your first clients (or should know) and they will spread the word if you are good. Be good. Be extra good. Be extra super cost saving, awesome customer service, really nice guy, ran the extra 3 miles, good.

Also, stay organized. Make notes about every expense, every 15 minute block billed to client. This was my huge burn when I first started doing my own thing. I figure I have wasted about 4 or 5 grand not being organized. Change orders that didn't get billed because I was "too busy" to keep records tax refunds lost because I could have written off that business meeting lunch. McDonalds has a saying "if you have time to lean, you have time to clean," well apply that to your personal business: "If you have time to breath, you have time to get organized. Actually, just make sure you get organized, even if you don't have time to breath."

I would also, personally, find a really good accountant. I know some good ones around Toronto, but if you have a good enough network you should be ok. Accountants pay for themselves, seriously.

As for lawyers - in my experience you shouldn't need them. But I'm not you, so ask your accountant.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> [Not legal advice] General tip - always remember everything is negotiable. Just because someone hands you a form contract doesn't mean you have to sign it as is. IP's tricky, but basically you own what you author until you assign the rights (unless it's a "work for hire", which generally doesn't apply, see the Wiki). The company you're freelancing for likely expects that you'd be signing over all the rights to the work product to them -- they're paying for it, after all. If you expect otherwise, then you should document that you're only providing them with an indefinite license to use (they'll probably want the right to modify and own all mods).

</comment><comment><USER11> I HIGHLY recommend adding a LOT of language to the contract that deals with the exact terms of payment. Some things to consider:

1) What are the late penalties if they don't pay on time?

2) What are the penalties if they (or you) cancel the contract?

3) What happens if you can't meet a milestone or deadline because they didn't give you a deliverable on time? Make sure you aren't held accountable and make EXTRA sure that you'll be paid for the extra time you have to waste in catching up.

4) (If they are not local) Spell out how they send you payments. Priority Mail with Delivery Confirmation is only a few bucks and will avoid any headaches with "We sent the check, we swear"

5) If this is your primary source of income, then Net 30 is NOT good enough. They need to pay Net 15 or better and you should be invoicing every two weeks. Big companies have a real problem with this, but standard monthly invoices and Net 30 will cause you to starve for several months before ever getting a dime.

The BEST way to arrange payments is to spell out the exact date that they will send a payment (and how much). It should be so precise that you don't even need to invoice them because all the info is right there.

6) Specify how long you will wait for a late payment before work stops all together.

In 6 years of contract work, I've NEVER had a contract that successfully avoided all of the situations above. Every one has run into one of these caveats, which are 'conveniently' left out of most boilerplate contracts. If these issues aren't addressed, you will be waiting for money for a LONG time.

</comment><comment><USER12> Break your projects up into milestones

for example:

Milestone One (Prototype, wireframe, database development (if it's dynamic, or just design) then make them pay up front before you start this.

Milestone Two (Slicing and Integration, programming, etc) break that up into another payment.

and usually I make a final milestone for launch like:

Milestone Three (Testing, debugging, content integration, etc) and have them pay you before you launch the website on their server.

Some clients request contracts, use docstoc.com to find "standard web contract" or have a lawyer. As you get better at giving new customers a sense of trust you don't really have to bother, if they don't bring it up.

</comment><comment><USER13> If you haven't been heavily client-facing inside a large company please, for your sake, remember to make sure you have written signoff from your clients at every stage re: expectations and deliverables. Clients spending their own money or with an incentive to keep costs low (been at this 10+ ys) have all read the same book, from single owner businesses to major international shoe brands: everything for nothing, yesterday, and "oh how about we make this little change, that won't affect anything, right?"

Also make sure that if it's a fixed price contract, you factor some expectation of hours in there and have a clause handling the case that if you go over by 10% you'll need to renegotiate, or as others have suggested, you pause until payment has been made.

</comment><comment><USER14> Dealing with small companies, I usually start by suggesting a simple NDA to protect them and make them feel safe. If they don't want more, I skip the administrivia and we move on to solving their problems.

It's been my experience that you're a lot better off being informal about the legalese and just invoicing as often as you can (bi-weekly at longest).

Companies without a legal department generally appreciate being able to do business in a straightforward manner.

</comment><comment><USER15> Putting yourself in the client's shoes always worked for me. For first time clients, it is the best way to gain their trust. I have never met face-to-face most of my clients. I live in the Philippines and they are either in the US/Canada/Australia. I have a day job and work mostly at night and on weekends. I have been doing this for almost 6 years already and in those years, I only had 2 contracts (both from France).

<comment><USER16> As someone also in the Philippines and looking to do a little freelance work, how do you negotiate your prices and look for prospective clients? My main problem is that I never really know what to charge, and don't know what the "local" vs. "international" rates should be.

<comment><USER15> I recently had been contacted by a client thru Philweavers - try to register there too. Charging clients is a little bit tricky. You can charge per projec or per hour. I prefer hourly rates because there is less pressure - you don't get paid unless you work.

I am assuming that you have a steady dayjob. So charge you're client to what _you_ think is worth your extra/rest time. And don't overdo this :P spend some time for yourself -- hack a pet project or learn something new :P Once you get into it, it's hard to back out :(

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Check Elance, they have several sample agreements you can choose from. In fact, many of the rent-a-someone services will offer these.

Personally, I kept an agreement around for years. Over time, I would add or subtract from it, but in general, once you have an solid contract agreement, you shouldn't need another.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Thanks so much everyone. You guys are great. I have some reading to do. :)

</comment><comment><USER18> Hey ballpark, I wanna help you out. I just wrote a rock solid contract for my web dev biz.. Email me and I'll hook you up - firstname.lastname@example.com

</comment><comment><USER19> Contracts are to keep honest people honest. But if you are dealing with a con the contract doesn't matter.</comment>


Ask HN: How is software consulting different than working on an internal team? - <AUTHOR> I have been a web engineer for a while. In my early days I did some work at agencies, mostly on ad work. I didn't care for the fact that everything was rushed out, tracking billable hours and not being able to iterate and grow software over time.
I've spent the better part of the last decade working on-staff building internal projects, and have been frustrated by the bureaucratic slowness and how behind on technologies we are due to brownfield projects. Those seem to be mostly the exact opposite problems I had early on, although I absolutely do not miss tracking billable hours.
I am considering switching employers and wanted to know how life at a developers-for-hire company is. I would especially like to hear it contrasted with being on a software team at a medium-large corporation. <comment><USER2> I've worked in both of those situations, but to be completely honest, I believe the variance in experiences introduced by different company cultures, leadership, team members, etc. is so much greater than any systemic effects from the nature of the company's business (e.g. product company vs. consultancy) that it would be pointless and misleading to generalize about one over the other. You can have both product companies and consultancies that will be enjoyable places to work at and it depends much more in the culture and leadership put in place by the decision-makers than whatever is driving the bottom line.

</comment><comment><USER3> It entirely depends on yourself and the type of work you can get. If you're an extroverted type, working in consulting may be a good experience. If you're highly creative but introverted type, you may not enjoy dealing with your client as much. If you're service oriented, you'd enjoy working with a client. If you're product oriented, you may prefer working on purely software/tech side of things!</comment>


Ask HN: What's important to you when reviewing terms of service - <AUTHOR> Hi there, I'm putting together terms of service and privacy policy for my product - a developer API (SaaS) and I'm wondering what parts of ToS you pay attention to when integrating with SaaS platforms? <comment><USER2> Curious as to why a lawyer isn't involved.</comment>


Toxy, a hackable HTTP proxy to simulate failure scenarios - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/h2non/toxy <comment><USER2> This looks suspiciously similar to [https://github.com/Shopify/toxiproxy](https://github.com/Shopify/toxiproxy) which is an older project. It even uses similar naming "toxic" "poisons".

<comment><USER3> Suspicious seems inappropriately sinister. The project you linked is a go project, the OP is JavaScript. Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Along with this and Kong there is also [https://github.com/mailhog/MailHog](https://github.com/mailhog/MailHog) for testing SMTP failure scenarios on outgoing email.

<comment><USER5> I wrote a similar thing to this too: [https://github.com/hitchtest/hitchsmtp#bad-smtp- server](https://github.com/hitchtest/hitchsmtp#bad-smtp-server)

It just outputs the mail it receives to stdout as JSON for easy parsing. Sending to specific email addresses "e.g. 451-please-try-again- firstname.lastname@example.com" will trigger specific SMTP errors.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Doesn't appear to support https. Ideally a similar mechanism to say Fiddler/Charles Proxy where a certificate is provided and appropriately translates the https between both sides of the connection. Obviously you would need to trust a new root. I'm fine with that on a dev/qe machine.

Basically, DNS injection for a machine would mean no noticeable difference in HTTPS.

</comment><comment><USER7> Similar project: [http://greim.github.io/hoxy/](http://greim.github.io/hoxy/) \- It also has throttling and latency simulation, but not as fine-grained. It's focus is more generally on debugging and traffic manipulation.

</comment><comment><USER8> Would it be possible to sort traffic by L2 or L3, and only apply to certain MACs or IP addresses? I can see that being very useful for PXE and provisioning in "cloud" environments.

<comment><USER9> You can create your own rule to do that, for instance, inspect the request remote connection address.

Then, you can apply that rule to the bandwidth poison. The poison will be only applicable if the rule passes.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Similar project: [https://github.com/bouncestorage/chaos-http- proxy](https://github.com/bouncestorage/chaos-http-proxy)

</comment><comment><USER11> On linux netem can help you do something similar. It is also faster, better tested, has more features and so on.

I guess an argument can be made about the user interface, as tc is a nightmare. :-)

</comment><comment><USER12> A somewhat related tool that is also very useful is mitmproxy.

</comment><comment><USER13> Please make airbnb run this. Their site is such utter cow dung on a flaky connection. It would cache broken assets, they must test with a 1G connection to the colo.

</comment><comment><USER5> Similar project: [https://vaurien.readthedocs.org](https://vaurien.readthedocs.org)

</comment><comment><USER14> is there a "verbose" option?

</comment><comment><USER15> This is amazing! It would work very well with any API gateway like KONG [1], especially to test unexpected network conditions for our internal APIs.

[1] [https://github.com/Mashape/kong](https://github.com/Mashape/kong)</comment>