App Store: Sentence first — verdict afterwards - <AUTHOR> http://shiftyjelly.wordpress.com/2010/06/01/sentence-first-verdict-afterwards/ <comment><USER2> I'd like to say I feel bad for the developers, but I can't. This isn't anything new. Many of us have been saying this for some time now. This isn't any different then the Bikini App situation. Even the article mentions eating the author's own words. What they fail to realize is that Apple's T&C are changeable. They are Apple's, not yours, and they can be whatever they want with no regard for your app.

As a user, this is bad. I don't want to buy an app because I can't rely on it. If Apple should remove it in the future, I lose the functionality I've come to rely on. As a user, I'm not in control of the applications I install. Apple is. This means if Apple suddenly changes it's mind, I lose the application and whatever data it supports.

This is not good for me as a user, and has influenced my buying habits.

<comment><USER3> I have heard that Apple can actually turn off particular users' apps on their devices, but this isn't necessarily the case. I bought NetShare (a tethering app) and it was later pulled from the store, but it never disappeared from my phone. (Now I never actually got it working, but that's beside the point.)

So I would say this is only bad for the user in the sense that they might not be able to have all the cool apps they want because (a) they may be pulled before they can purchase them or (b) they may never be developed because it's too risky to make them with Apple's fickle review policies.

<comment><USER4> They've never actually used their remote "kill switch" for any apps; if an app is simply removed for a change in policy or after-the-fact enforcement, deployed apps have remained.

However, there is most definitely a remotely-controlled kill switch for apps. The URL containing that list is here:

<https://iphone-services.apple.com/clbl/unauthorizedApps>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> " There is no alternative platform, despite what others may say about Android, it's immature and their app store(s) are a wild west nightmare."

Silly Apple fanboy. He's whining that there's no approval on the Android market in a blog post dedicated to complaining about the approval in the App Store.

I also wonder what "immature" is. Probably another way of saying "I don't know anything but I don't like it, so I'll make some stuff up"

<comment><USER6> Unfortunately, Google does not allow Australian developers to sell apps in the appstore. It has always been like this, and we have not heard anything on this issue from google.

That is why it is immature. If I can't sell apps, then what good is it to someone trying to run a business? Some people aren't willing to stoop to selling ads, and ruining the experience.

<comment><USER7> If Android's as "open" as people keep saying it is, is it possible for you to sell Android apps from your own site and let users download and install them without using an app store? I'd expect this to be possible if it's a truly open platform.

<comment><USER8> It is possible to do that but the discovery mechanism and billing that you get through the app store is much better. To install software from another source on my g1 it was a pain. I cannot imagine anyone willing to risk any mony with a business if that is the only way I can deliver the software.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> This is pretty emblematic of all the Apple apologists out there: stating that everything is fine for everybody, just because it's fine for them.

Until they fall into the hole themselves.

<comment><USER10> I don't think this type of 'apologist' is unique to Apple. You could in a general way say "Everyone is okay with X until..." for just about anything.

<comment><USER9> Not unique, but certainly extremely common. Go check the comments on the page and see for yourself; plenty of comments there saying it looks "widgety" so Apple was right to ban it (even though there has never been anything on the agreement about "widgety" applications). I'd bet this guy would be one of them writing in defense of Apple, had it not been his application the affected one. As long as those people have an excuse, no matter how inane it is, they're gonna stick to it; and I'm seeing more from the Apple camp than any other fanboy camp I've seen before.

I hope this causes more people to look at their own attitude towards Apple and the kind of future it's buying them.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> There's a right way Apple could have done this.

1\. Just like with the infamous 3.3.1, announce that there will be changes coming to the developer agreement that ban "widget desktop" apps, and that apps of that variety will no longer be approved after July 1, 2010.

2\. _Grandfather in_ existing widget apps and make it clear to developers that they will only be able to make maintenance updates to their software and that no significant new versions will be approved.

I've actually bought Jobs' "sacrifice for the future of the platform" politic up to a point, and gradually phasing out approval for a type of app fits into that.

Sniping your developers does _not_ fit into that.

<comment><USER10> Your second suggestion is still pretty evil. Imagine being a moderately successful app developer and having Apple tell you that you've released your last version and your app is essentially 'frozen in time' and your only option is to release maintenance fixes (at your cost yay!). Why would I maintain software for users whom I'll never be able to sell a future version or upgrade to?

<comment><USER12> How is that worse than having Apple tell you that they're pulling your app altogether?

<comment><USER13> Because suddenly dropping support for an app reflects badly on you and your brand. But supporting something at a loss is even worse -- it has a financial cost, and it has an even larger opportunity cost. It's many businesspeople's worst nightmare.

But if Apple _orders_ the abrupt discontinuation of your product you have a face-saving way to wash your hands of the affair. It's Apple's fault! Don't forget to make a big public show of how Apple _made_ you drop the product - and not by degrees, but cold-turkey.

<comment><USER14> Apple could put a badge on the App Store listing saying that it has been discontinued, etc. It would only show up for current users anyway and right now you have no way to communicate with your users about what happened (you don't even get to know who they are to contact them after Apple pulls you).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I suspect that this new unwritten policy is to prepare for the introduction of widgets in iPhone OS 4.0. That would explain why they want to get rid of widget-like apps, why they would try to keep it low-key, plus the timing fits. That the app store reviewer said that Apple 'doesn't like' widgets anymore is probably meaningless; I doubt he knows about Apple HQ's plans or motivations any more than this developer.

<comment><USER11> Fine, then. Announce changes to the developer agreement, and stop approving widget apps. But don't suddenly _pull_ existing widget apps from the store as if they've suddenly become dangerous to users!

That's not preserving the user experience or maintaining the flexibility of the platform. That's _madness._

<comment><USER16> > But don't suddenly pull existing widget apps from the store as if they've > suddenly become dangerous to users!

That hasn't happened. This guys app is still available. You can buy it [here](<http://itunes.apple.com/au/app/tennis-stats/id364532249?mt=8>). What Apple is doing is holding back approval for updates and new apps.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> >despite what others may say about Android, it's immature and their app store(s) are a wild west nightmare.

Hardly a "nightmare"... User ratings and reviews give me a sense of whether an app is quality and if I don't like an Android app, I can get an instant refund.

<comment><USER18> I wish he'd elaborate on that in a future post. Even if his reasons turn out to be idiotic, it's still an important thing to understand why developers like him are hesitant to move to the platform.

<comment><USER19> From the comments: "I was speaking as a developer, not a consumer. As a consumer the Android marketplace might be great. As a developer Google doesn't even allow Australian Developers to sell paid apps, so yes, it ain't no alternative"

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> "[The App Store is] a platform that can change at any time cutting you off and kicking you out, with no course of action but to whine on some no-name blog. There is no alternative platform, despite what others may say about Android, it's immature and their app store(s) are a wild west nightmare."

These aren't unrelated.

<comment><USER21> It's interesting that the author took that blog post to describe the exact opposite. Apple is treating the developers and users like they are immature, with the "because I said so" and inexplicable nondetailed explanations treating everyone with kid gloves. Even Jobs' response sounds like something a parent would say when a kid keeps asking "why?" continuously.

Then there is the "wildwest" of the Android market, where you have to watch out for yourself because anyone can do whatever they want and no one is looking over your shoulder and telling you what to do. That sounds like more a more mature environment to me.

<comment><USER22> I think you're confusing "mature", treating people like responsible adults, and "mature", a market that has fully expanded and is not growing. If the author from Australia cannot sell an app, than the Android Market is an immature economic market.

The App Store is both mature and immature, and the Android Market is both mature and immature at the same time.

<comment><USER21> I wasn't confusing them at all, I know exactly what the author meant and I purposely chose the other definition. There's a lot of whining coming from what amounts to Apple fanbois on this issue, when the right thing to do is vote with your dollars and your time. I have a lot more respect for the developer who blogs about how they are moving to another platform and actually _does it_ than one who complains about having hooked their wagon to the wrong star. It's interesting that people like this choose the platform where everything is decided for you (users and developers) rather than helping to make another platform that provides them more freedom to be more finished and polished. They'll use the excuse that they just want to get things done and don't want to be bothered with the lower level details needed to make their app look good/attractive/functional/whathaveyou -- 1) then why bother programming at all, 2) good luck differentiating your app (remove the widgets so your picture frame app follows the new guidelines, now your app duplicates Apple's functionality) when you can't go beyond the preconceived ideas of how apps should operate.

That being said, I'm not sure the author would want a mature market that has "fully expanded and is not growing" anyway. This seriously limits the growth potential. Who's developing for WebOS? By your definition the WebOS market has matured, has expanded and is not growing. However, both the iPhone and Android ecosystems continue to grow, so then neither have "matured".

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> So Apple isn't evil, until they hit me?

Classy, very classy.

</comment><comment><USER24> 1\. change the app a little, give it a new name

2\. resubmit

3\. if denied, go to 1. otherwise go to 4.

4\. profit

Actually after writing this I have a thought, I wonder what is the cost/benefit analysis of buying several developer accounts and submitting your app ( under different names ) and just use the one that gets approved first.

<comment><USER25> I would assume you would be banned if/when they figure it out.

<comment><USER24> I guess you could get banned, but there are so many 'clone' apps out there it would be kinda hard for them to find out.

I was just wondering if it would be cost effective, since the rules seem to be arbitrary you might get more lenient reviewers and get through more often with more accts.

<comment><USER26> The process definitely has a lot of randomness, but this is a lot harder to do in practice then you think. Specifically, because you supply bank account information with every account, so now you're also creating several bank accounts. And there are a lot of other factors that would make it a major nuisance.

<comment><USER24> Yeah opening several bank account would be a huge nuisance.

Oh well just a thought.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> MyFrame looks awfully similar to PhotoFramePlus ([http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/photoframeplus/id365563397?mt...](http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/photoframeplus/id365563397?mt=8)), an app I read about just this morning and was considering purchasing. Now I'm wondering if PFP is next up on the chopping block (although it's not so "widgety" as MyFrame is).

What happens when Apple kills an app that you've purchased? Does it get removed from your iPad the next time you sync (a la Amazon.com and the "1984" fiasco)? If it does get removed, do you get a refund?

<comment><USER28> I have a couple of the wifi apps and they don't get removed from the iPad / iPhone. The problem is that you get no more updates for OS changes.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> So, what exactly determines whether something is a widget or not?

<comment><USER28> The quote is "We are not allowing apps that create their own desktops". So, It might be safe if your app didn't display all the system indicators that the iPad normally shows on the desktop (battery, signal, time).

I am at a real loss on this one. It would seem to indicate something coming, but it just seems odd.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> For those who take issue with the author's claim that Android is immature, please read this comment first.

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1397398>

Disclaimer: I am an Android user and I love it as a consumer. As a developer not in the list of 'blessed' countries, it stinks.

</comment><comment><USER14> What's their issue with desktop type apps? It looks quite nice actually, I could see enjoying the iPad in a stand next to my computer with beautiful photos and passive information displayed. I guess I'll have to make my own with Javascript.

</comment><comment><USER30> Wow, this is sad especially since the author wrote a post defending Apple a month prior. Apple desperately needs reform in their developer relations.

1\. Apple should replace whoever is in charge of developer relations.

2\. Apple should open up a 1-800 developer hotline for any problems.

3\. Apple needs to be more clear about app approval and rejection policies, and should give updates if there are any changes of apps they are rejecting.

4\. Apple should be more in dialogue with developers.

<comment><USER31> None of these will help if "we're adding a desktop, get rid of all desktop apps" order comes from the top, and that's not a single mistake, that's a strategy.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> I think this guy winds up sounding like a self-centred jerk: in that earlier post he mentions he basically says "all that stuff other developers have complained can't be that bad becase it hasn't happened to me", like he doesn't believe them, and now it happens to him and suddenly he agrees with everyone else's complaints... Sheesh.

</comment><comment><USER33> I don't understand this. The author goes on about how they don't know what's wrong with the app, but then goes on to quote herself (from an email to Apple):

"Our app is a beautiful photo frame with a few nice things you can put over your photos."

There's her problem. I'm assuming the app is a full screen digital picture frame app, and then you can put their special widgets on top of it. The only thing wrong is she said "a few nice things" instead of "widgets".

It's her own fault the app got rejected.

EDIT: Not sure why I'm being down voted for this, but basically I'm saying that Apple was quite clear about what the issue was, and it shouldn't be difficult for her to understand this. When they update the terms of the contract, I'm sure it'll make more sense. Updating contracts isn't as simple as adding in one sentence - things take time.

<comment><USER34> The real problem is the App Store Guidelines make no mention of "no widget/desktop apps". And initially, the application was approved. Then, Apple changed their minds (without updating the guidelines or providing any route to fix the problem) and suddenly this app removed on them.

It would be like if drinking Coca Cola suddenly became illegal to drink, but the laws were not updated to let citizens know. So you're on a hot summer's day, drinking your cool refreshing Coke like you always do, suddenly you're arrested and the cop won't even explain why (but he says he thought your Coke looked especially delicious). It's a little bit outrageous.

<comment><USER33> I realize it wasn't listed in the rules, but when Apple comes knocking on your door and gives you a reason for the rejection, and blatantly tells you "NO WIDGETS!", it shouldn't be hard to realize that the damn "nice things you can put on your photos" are what have to be removed.

<comment><USER35> It's more like pg suddenly deleting your comments here, telling you, "No obsequious comments", leaving you wondering just what how that applies to _your_ comments.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> So Apple is being unfair, but there's no alternative?

Sounds like a good investment, according to Scott Adams <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1383843>

</comment><comment><USER37> I love this little snarky response to that post:

      "THEY CAME FIRST for the phone app developers,
      and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a phone app developer.
      THEN THEY CAME for the flash developer,
      and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a flash developer.
      THEN THEY CAME for the desktop style app developers,
      and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a desktop style app developer.
      THEN THEY CAME for me
      and by that time no one was left to speak up."
      Yep Godwin was right : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
      Neil Ellis said this on June 1, 2010 at 11:01 pm

<comment><USER38> You know, despite the fact that that poem is about the Nazis, it does have a point beyond that. I've mostly seen it referenced as "be aware of these kind of issues, it could be you next", rather than "<issue> is just like what the Nazis did!" To say that this is a case of Godwin's law misses the point: it is a good idea to be active in calling out injustice even if you are not personally affected, because one day you could be. It does not always warrant the gravitas of comparing it to the Holocaust, but the poem itself is a nice succinct illustration of the idea that preventing injustice against others is a wise idea.

Also, calling Godwin's law on a legitimate comparison is just as bad as what Hitler did. :-P

<comment><USER37> I certainly agree with you, and just to note, even though he puts it in quotes, he wasn't quoting any part of the original post, it was mostly his own invention (a modification of the original: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...>)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> Another reminder that IPhone developers are all sharecroppers: <http://goo.gl/HPAp>

<comment><USER40> By that definition, so are Android developers.

Firstly, the platform vendor - Google - can and does ship competing products for free (turn by turn navigation anyone?).

Secondly even though Android is free you still rely on the manufacturers to ship it on actual phones. They could all jump ship for Windows Phone 7 leaving you with no platform (go with it, it's a thought expermient).

I understand that this is a 7 year old article and that Tim Bray has undergone a road to Damascus conversion to Android Apps over the web, but even if you accept his original conclusion that you are only not a sharecropper if you run your own web stack, it doesn't really afford you much extra security. Google could come along and release a competitor to your product and give it away for free.

In summary: we're almost all sharecroppers because the definition is so wide and even those who aren't face a similarly large but different risk meaning that being a sharecropper isn't necessarily much worse, if worse at all.

Dumb app store rejections still suck mightily though :)

<comment><USER5> By that definition so is Windows. And OS X. And any computing platform in the history of the world.

MS can release a free competitor on Windows and Apple can release a free competitor on OS X. Nevertheless, these are pretty solid platforms and no one has ever suggested developers are sharecroppers. Due to its nature, Google is far less in charge of Android than MS is of Windows or Apple of OS X.

If you stretch a definition enough, it looses it's meaning.

<comment><USER41> From the linked article: "If you're developing software for the Windows platform, yes [you are a sharecropper]. Or for the Apple platform"</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: Simple Automated Site Scanner - <AUTHOR> https://simple-scanner.com <comment><AUTHOR> Hello.

I launched my MVP, [https://simple-scanner.com](https://simple-scanner.com) this weekend.

I've formerly been a pen-tester, sys admin, and most recently a software developer.

I've personally been hacked years ago, and so decided to build a simple, automated service to scan sites or IPs and give the user simple reports on possible vulnerabilities present.

First 25 signups get their first month free.

Also looking for any feedback you are willing to give.

Thanks</comment>


Grad School Enrollment vs. Unemployment Rate - <AUTHOR> http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php?n=1078 <comment><USER2> I entered my PhD in 2003 (remember, it was after a kinda big crash). I beat out 160 candidates to get one of seven slots. Since then, like many junior scholars, I've been watching faculty retirement stats for new jobs. Now, I'm finishing my dissertation, and here we are. I hope to either help create a cool start-up or pray for a faculty position in 2010.

Oddly, PhDComics is one thing that's kept us going.

</comment><comment><USER3> This is the first time I've realized that I don't feel comfortable clicking on faces to navigate a website.

<comment><USER4> Mystery meat navigation at it's best. Whoever designed this mess thought they were pretty clever (fail).

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> It's been shown that, on average, people who enter the workforce during a recession earn less throughout their lives than people who graduate when the economy is doing well.

<comment><USER6> Meh. Those of us who entered the workforce during the last real recession in the early 90s (not the hiccup some techies wet themselves over in 2001) did just fine, thanks.

Look, if you're planning to graduate over the next while, things are going to suck. Not "will I be able to get a job at cuulCmpny.com" suck, but "will I be able to both pay rent and eat" suck. Nasty, soul-crushing stuff that'll make you wonder if you were really as smart as you thought you were all this time.

Just keep your head and you'll come out of it fine. Your character will be stronger, you'll have superb perspective and your long-term earnings will be spiffy.

Don't waste energy worrying about whether or not you'll have a few more bucks on your paystub in 20 years. There are a whole ton of other factors which can affect that a lot more than the birth-sign of your economic zodiac.

<comment><USER5> My comment was more concerned with the decision to graduate or stick around in grad school. The data suggests that you may be better off in the long term if you spend the recession earning another degree instead of cowering in a cubicle.

<comment><USER6> Well, for my own small sample of peers, those I know who took their chances in the workforce came out of the recession better than those who earned another degree (particularly if it was just 'something to do until things got better').

If you're planning to spend your life cowering, it really won't matter whether your choice is a cubicle or a classroom.

<comment><AUTHOR> Which recession? The last one (2002-2003) is a bad example, since many of the people who worked through it went crazy buying crap (i.e. houses, cars, granite countertops) with the flood of cheap credit that was used to "stimulate" the economy out of trouble.

I spent that period in grad school, and while I don't have houses and cars, I also have no debt. I suspect I will end up better off in the long run -- we're just not there yet.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I think pg recommended grad school during recession. It's the perfect time to take on debt. If you choose wisely, when things turn around, you'll have skills that are in demand. Genetics and materials science seem like great candidates for higher education if you can get somebody else to pay for it.

<comment><USER8> Physics should not be too bad, either.

<comment><USER9> Meh. I don't have hard data, but I would think that the one and only source of money in physics, the USG, might choose to spend it in more "useful" fields. That means, less opportunities for grad school.

That is, unless you're willing to go abroad. I'd recommend it.

<comment><USER8> I was more thinking along the lines of Physics Superpowers to make money in completely unrelated fields.

<comment><USER10> Completely unrelated fields like what?

Traditionally, the answer has been "Finance!" but I don't see that particular job market bouncing back quickly.

<comment><USER8> How about management consulting?

<comment><USER10> You're right, that's probably still going to be an option.

I'd forgotten about it, but I used to share an office with a guy who went into management consulting at the end of his PhD.

Last time I saw him, he was trying to figure out whether one insanely large number in Hong Kong dollars was worth more or less than some other insanely large number in pounds sterling, because those were the salaries he'd been offered.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> not that surprising really, when you can't find a job, going to grad school pretty much gives you a 2 year extension to wait for the market to bounce back.

<comment><USER12> It certainly confirms one's intuition, but the degree of correlation is pretty surprising to me, assuming this is real data.

<comment><AUTHOR> He cites the sources in the comic, and he's an engineer by training, so I'm inclined to believe that he knows how to do the calculation. :-)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> No matter what, times are going to get very interesting... I just graduated (a little later in life but hey, I did it). I also have a startup and have been debating on moving across the country to the Bay area in order to give it a real shot or keep bootstrapping as long as possible and go back to school and wait it out. Decisions...

</comment><comment><USER14> I'm now desperately trying to decide between a master's and a PhD. I'm unsure as to whether I should take the economy into account.</comment>


Setup Ruby Enterprise Edition, nginx and Passenger (aka mod_rails) on Ubuntu - <AUTHOR> http://antoniocangiano.com/2009/11/20/setup-ruby-enterprise-edition-nginx-and-passenger-aka-mod_rails-on-ubuntu/ <comment><USER2> Dude, _mod_rails_ is not the preferred nomenclature. _mod_rack_ , please.

Do your part in the neverending fight against Rails parochialism in the Ruby community.

<comment><USER3> What?

Title of modrails.com: "Overview — Phusion Passenger™ (a.k.a. mod_rails / mod_rack)"

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Why do people post stuff like that? Why do people vote it up?

It's not like you can't google yourself some install instructions. Also, this "article" doesn't bring anything new. You can get this information from the REE documentation.

Please, stop voting on this :(

<comment><USER5> I was the first person to vote it up, and I'll tell you why. I happen to being doing this exact thing this weekend, so I wanted to save it for later.

<comment><USER3> If you're doing a serious deployment, check out Unicorn instead: <http://unicorn.bogomips.org>

Basic overview of its architecture: <http://github.com/blog/517-unicorn></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Do Domain Registrars and Web Hosts Need to Be Treated as Utilities? - <AUTHOR> Because I've seen a lot of comments about Facebook, YouTube, Reddit and other sites censoring users, and that's certainly worrying.
But I feel what's worse is how domain registrars, hosts and companies like Cloudfront also seem to be doing the same thing. They too seem to buckle under pressure from social media mobs and censors, and seem to be a worse threat to freedom of speech in the process. See what happened to the Daily Stormer with Cloudfront for instance, or how controversial sites often get booted from hosting companies.
There's no argument those are private communities or what not, they're closer to the telephone company refusing service based on political beliefs or a landlord throwing people out for personal disagreements.
So yeah, anyone else think those should be subject to similar laws? Perhaps even have something akin to net neutrality forced on them? <comment><USER2> This one is a slippery slope and I don't know which side I fall on. On one hand, this badly restricts free speech. On the other hand, sometimes the act of simply hosting content can create unintended victims.

I was in a similar situation when I published a magazine. We had a fellow come in and offer us big bucks for a full page ad. Unfortunately, the full page ad had some nazi imagery. My partner and I were personally offended by the imagery, but we knew we couldn't only dress ourselves in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms when it was convenient for us, or we would lose credibility.

In the end, we chose not to take the (business changing) sum of money because we knew that we couldn't possibly survive the backlash we would face from publishing it. It sucked because we were in publishing and no publisher wants to say no to any ad revenue because how do you ever offer any sort of editorial/sales separation again?

The sad thing is that, as individuals we agreed that we couldn't turn down the ad without losing credibility. But, we had a fiduciary duty to protect our corporation from a massive backlash, including the real possibility of vandalism (cyber or otherwise) or a massive exodus of paying clients.

If we were regulated as a utility, we wouldn't have had to make the decision. But, we also wouldn't have been able to publish 95% of the stuff we published and never would have reached a scale where we had to make those kinds of decisions.</comment>


How Much Does a Compiler Cost? - <AUTHOR> https://www.embecosm.com/2018/02/26/how-much-does-a-compiler-cost/ <comment><USER2> As a previous compiler developer, its a pretty bad idea to look at the final lines of code to determine its cost.

Typically in compiler development, there's massive R&D time, many hours spent analyzing memory & CPU patterns to figure out which code to emit. You also take a look at disassembly of generated code and nowdays perform data-mining to figure out which patterns of optimize for (typically on non-kernel or hotspot-heavy type workloads).

The end result of alot of investigation can be few lines of code which have to be absolutely robust and production ready at the time of release under standard configurations (i.e -O1, -O2 etc...)

Its a costly piece of engineering which is why some companies still charge money for it.

I'd say the article's estimates are accurate for a simple compiler that emits results at say -O0 or -O1 level of efficiency, but anything higher will start to require more and more resources with diminishing gains over time. But this can be said about most things in engineering.

</comment><comment><USER3> > LLVM is smaller at 1.6 million lines, but is newer, supports only C and C++ > by default

Unless I'm misunderstanding "by default", this isn't true. LLVM is language agnostic and supports many languages - even the primary C-like frontend Clang supports more than just C/C++.

<comment><USER4> > LLVM is language agnostic

There exists no such thing as "language agnostic". Every intermediate representation contains properties (very often implicitly) that are specific at least to a class of programming languages.

<comment><USER5> If the intermediate representation is no more language-specific than x86, then it isn't really the _compiler_ that's language-specific: it's modern computer architecture.

<comment><USER6> LLVM IR is fairly C specific. For instance, you better not be trying to write a language where null pointer access is defined...

<comment><USER7> We compile D with LLVM. Null pointer access is defined to crash, unlike C/C++ where it is undefined.

<comment><USER8> Are you adding explicit checks (possibly using fault maps to optimize them)? Because if not, you're depending on undefined behavior.

<comment><USER7> That is only necessary for single objects that are bigger than one page which, we dont currently do (but should). Arrays are no problem since we check the bounds, only raw pointers cause problems.

<comment><USER8> No, it is necessary in all cases. Look at the InstCombine code I linked in a sibling comment…

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> In a decade Cygnus spent well over $250 million on GCC and its related tools -- well our customers did. Not sure what that is in today's dollars.

<comment><USER10> Can break down where the money likely went, how it was spent?

<comment><USER9> This was between 1989 (when we started in my living room) and 1999 when I left. By 1999 we had about 160-170 developers working on gcc, gdb, binutils, glibc, Cygwin etc. The money was a mixture of 1> ports (typically paid for by the manufacturer), 2> maintenance (mostly paid for by the corporate end user -- for $100K/year we'd fix your bug whether we spent $100 to make a trivial fix or $300K on a major problem) 3> maintenance on very old versions that people had to freeze on for one reason or another and 4> the public tree (we wouldn't work on non-free software, apart from a few abortive experiments after I had left).

Making sure everything we wrote was compatible with the public tree was expensive. In the end, one of the last things I did saved a lot of money and improved code quality for everyone: I forked gcc from the FSF (and made the egcs tre the _de facto_ , and eventually _de jure_ version).

Nowadays forking is considered routine, and even beneficial, and projects have steering committees that are responsible for master releases. At that time, forks were considered a _tragedy_ , and it took me over 6 months of discussion with various people to build a reasonable consensus (you can see the people's name at the bottom of the letter I wrote announcing it ( [https://gcc.gnu.org/news/announcement.html](https://gcc.gnu.org/news/announcement.html) ). It's been a good model. Note that RMS's name is _not_ on the letter -- he was furious and was sure this would destroy the FSF. Instead it has strengthened it.

By the way, to compare these numbers: Red Hat went public with, AFAIK less than 10 engineers and when Cygnus and Red Hat merged, though both companies had about 200 people, Cygnus had over 160 engineers while Red hat had a couple of dozen. Of course we had a lot more revenue, and in the years since RHAT has invested heavily in free software development. But their company value at that time was something like 3X ours -- a very valuable lesson.

<comment><USER11> How did Cygwin come about?

<comment><USER12> [http://www.toad.com/gnu/cygnus/](http://www.toad.com/gnu/cygnus/)

<comment><USER11> Maybe I'm misreading that, but it doesn't say anything about Cygwin, per se, just about Cygnus, the company.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I find it odd that they did an LLVM port and even another blog about dealing with 16bit char types, but none of the target specific changes are going upstream. I can understand a company not wanting to help their competitors, but it sounds like they're still going to try to get the 16bit char changes pushed upstream, which is likely one of the more useful pieces for a competing DSP vendor with a different instruction set.

In 5 years we'll all be using risc-v with a nice DSP extension anyway... And after typing that I felt the need to google: [https://riscv.org/wp- content/uploads/2016/07/Wed1000_dsp_isa...](https://riscv.org/wp- content/uploads/2016/07/Wed1000_dsp_isa_extensions_for_an_OpenSource_RISCV_implementation_Schiavone.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER14> Heh. Remember when you had to actually _buy_ a compiler? :)

<comment><USER15> People still buy compilers. IAR is [1] still the gold standard in the embedded space.

[1] At least it was 18 months ago when I still working in the space, can't imagine that's changed since.

<comment><USER16> In the scientific / numeric space it's not unheard of to buy Intel Fortran/C compilers for performance reasons.

Also, it's been a few years since I touched IBM's POWER hardware with AIX, but I'm pretty sure XLC and whatever the Fortran compilers were didn't come free.

<comment><USER17> My organization uses the Intel Fortran compiler. I did a few rough benchmarks at one point and found it produced code nearly 3x faster than the same code in gfortran.

<comment><USER18> I hear this a lot, but if it's with equivalent optimizations it's quite pathological and should be reported as a bug; it's certainly not generally the case. They are typically similar at the 10-20% level in my experience (not always in ifort's favour). There are several significant HPC codes which recommend GCC where it matters. You also need to consider reliability; GCC is surprisingly better in my experience -- I've quite often solved users' problems with "just try GCC".

There used to be a published set of results from Polyhedron -- presumably to help to sell proprietary compilers -- which had a geometric mean favouring ifort by ~20%, if I remember right. However, the last I saw didn't use the latest GCC, required the same flags for each case (which didn't include profile-directed, for instance), and the cases with the biggest differences actually bottlenecked on libraries, not generated code. gfortran is infinitely faster on most architectures, of course.

Most benchmark results I see aren't useful because they don't supply the parameters needed to be reproducible and they don't have profile information to allow you to understand, and maybe improve, them.

<comment><USER18> I found that results from the Polyhedron benchmarks are online again <[https://www.fortran.uk/fortran-compiler- comparisons/polyhedr...](https://www.fortran.uk/fortran-compiler- comparisons/polyhedron-benchmarks-linux64-on-intel/>). Note that they compare gfortran from 2015 and ifort from 2017. I don't know how representative they are of the part of the workload on typical HPC systems for which the compiler might be important.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> > For a commercial system, the compiler has to be completely reliable—whatever > the source code, it should produce correct, high performance binaries.

Well, that's certainly the ideal case. I can only wonder what historic defect rates have been for commercial compilers.

<comment><USER20> Not that it answers the question, but here are some VC++ bugs found in Chromium development: [https://randomascii.wordpress.com/2016/03/24/compiler- bugs-f...](https://randomascii.wordpress.com/2016/03/24/compiler-bugs-found- when-porting-chromium-to-vc-2015/) . HN discussion at [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11361151](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11361151) .

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Posts like this make me think of this: [https://github.com/oriansj/M2-Planet](https://github.com/oriansj/M2-Planet) A C compiler with support for inline assembly, gotos, structs and weighs under 2000lines and is self hosting.

</comment><comment><USER22> I was hoping this was an analysis on how much time and money is spent while waiting for n number of lines of code to compile by various compilers. I find waiting for things to build, deploy, install dependencies, etc as the most mind numbing aspects of the field. I can hardly stand it.

</comment><comment><USER23> I wonder, are there languages that are cheaper yet have similar features?

For example, how much is rust? python?

It's weird how a compiler can cost so much, yet it can still produce unsafe code because the language is not safe by design. In that optic, rust might save a lot of money.

<comment><USER24> You cannot produce a Rust or a Python compiler without a working C/C++ compiler first anyway, so the point is slightly moot. If there exists a C/C++ compiler for the platform you want to build for, just build Python for it and you're good to go.

<comment><USER25> You could produce a Rust or Python compiler without a working C compiler if you wanted to.

<comment><USER24> Yes, but then you are running into all the same issues that writing a C compiler would have, you're just skipping the middle step.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Does anyone know of any resources to learning about compilers and building a small, simple compiler for beginners?

<comment><USER27> I watched a couple videos from this and was good to go. [https://lagunita.stanford.edu/courses/Engineering/Compilers/...](https://lagunita.stanford.edu/courses/Engineering/Compilers/Fall2014/about)

My strategy was to start with a very small grammar and grow it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> C/C++ compilers are different from other compilers. They are forced to support all kinds of complicated, too-many-cooks-spoil-the-broth, design-by-committee standards. If you just wanted to do another portable assembler, your new compiler would take just a fraction of the effort.</comment>


A staggering 54% of Americans think the TSA is doing a good job - <AUTHOR> http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/08/poll_americans.html

<comment><USER2> I wonder what this number would fall to if the sample population were exclusively American frequent flyers. I would venture to guess that 'Americans' generically tend to support any authority with whom they do not regularly interact, and only become critical of that authority in the face of direct experience with it.

<comment><USER2> Well hush my mouth. The Gallup data blows my assumption out of the water. I guess a generation who grew up with 'threat level' as a baseline has a completely different expectation from someone like myself who grew up flying on planes with ashtrays. You kids get off my lawn!

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> 1\. This is part of a much wider survey, the survey itself not specifically about TSA, so people will have survey fatigue by question 38.

1.a. The results are 54% score 4 or 5 in "doing good job at screening airports", and 41% score 4 or 5 "screening at airports prevents airplane- related terrorism"

TO me that 10% drop is very significant - it says that when prompted a lot of people think that the real underlying aim of TSA is not being handled well. And that a different survey designed to uncover those attitudes would a) be fruitful, b) probably tell Bruce what he wants to hear

2\. The TSA is doing the job it was setup to do (look busy at the airports) very well. It is also true that the job it is notionally supposed to do (keep terrorists off US planes) is also working well (three incidents IIRR).

3\. If that last comment worries you, then the TSA is fantastic at keeping alien's named Paul off the US airways.

4\. The survey is not asking if the TSA should exist, if there are better alternatives to TSA current practises, or if security at airports reduces terrorist activity. All of which, if asked before asking the killer question, would garner different results. And notably all of which are the sub-questions Bruce is asking / implying. Unless you are familiar with Bruce's views on TSA these questions will not occur to you when asked about the TSA.

5\. Its just a survey.</comment>


China's Great Firewall descends on Hong Kong internet users - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/08/china-great-firewall-descends-hong-kong-internet-users <comment><USER2> I am wondering if AWS Hong Kong will be affected. For the other China AWS regions, I think it says you need different credentials and maybe even a Chinese business license or something.

Actually I assume that within a few months those rules will be applied to AWS Hong Kong also. I mean, who or what is going to stop them from doing that?

Before I would have gone along with the idea that they don't want to disrupt too much business or something. But with this article that does not seem to be a concern.

If they say they have to comply with these new laws, and companies do not, why would we not expect them to force the issue (i.e. arresting people)? They seem to be going quickly in that direction.

<comment><USER3> I think under the security law, foreign companies who resist the demands of the government may have their personnel arrested and their equipment seized.

I think it's curtains for cloud presence in HK. AWS would do well to ensure the authorities can't decrypt data on the machines they might take.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Excerpt: "After the new measures were announced late on Monday, Facebook, Microsoft, WhatsApp, Google, Twitter, Telegram and others said they would not process information requests from the government until they had reviewed the law. TikTok, owned by the Chinese company ByteDance, said it was leaving Hong Kong altogether."</comment>


The Design Ego - <AUTHOR> http://www.zethussuen.com/the-design-ego

<comment><USER2> Thanks for linking this! There's some discussion on the bottom of the post as well as on DN: <https://news.layervault.com/stories/2070-the-design-ego>

</comment><comment> rkuykendall-com Written in Obtvse ( style copied from Svbtle ) for dramatic effect?</comment>


Suicide Prevention Sheds a Longstanding Taboo: Talking About Attempts - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/14/us/suicide-prevention-sheds-a-longstanding-taboo-talking-about-attempts.html <comment><USER2> Serious question: is someone who attempts suicide in the same group as someone who successfully commits suicide?

For instance, far more men commit suicide. But far more women attempt suicide:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide)

I'm sure there are other differences. To me, the questions are:

1\. Why do people fail at suicide attempts?

2\. Will information that dissuades a failed suicide attempt dissuade someone from making a successful suicide attempt?

<comment><USER3> 1\. Men are more "successful" because they tend to use more violent methods - guns, jumping off high places, etc. Women are more likely to use pills. Sometimes attempts are more of a call for help than ending one's life. 2\. Your question is unclear to me, but most people who have attempted and failed to commit suicide regret that decision.

<comment><USER4> Apparently not so in China?

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide#C...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide#China)

<comment><USER5> Perhaps china is tougher on their Women than their men?

>It has been found that suicide makes up for about 30% of deaths of women living in rural China.

Wow... that must be pretty bad for them living out there. Can you imagine living in a place where there was a 1 in 3 chance you'd off yourself before dying naturally? Wow... just wow.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> "...in the past few years, scores of them have come together on social media and in other forums to demand a bigger voice in prevention efforts."

Wha-?

I'm by no means a heartless person. However, I truly believe if you don't want to live any more, that it's your right and your responsibility.

I'm not in your head. I don't know what you're thinking. Most of the time, I won't even know that you're depressed. Many people mask it very well. Why is it my fault that you decided to kill yourself?

<comment><USER7> Here's the thing though, depression is a treatable-ish illness. Suicide is a symptom.

Isn't the usual approach to at least treat symptoms, if you can't immediately cure the underlying illness?

<comment><USER8> I'm sorry, but as a long-time sufferer, I feel compelled to disagree with this viewpoint wherever I see it, to represent people like me. I've been suicidal and depressed on and off for about 20 years. From in here, it doesn't seem anything like an illness at all. The flu is an illness. This is having lived through an absurd number of absurd events, emotionally draining and also traumatic in the long-term. It's having been abused. It's having exhausted yourself pouring all the energy you have into being your best, excelling, achieving, pleasing everyone, but having one dream after another expectation shattered, and having to learn a new framework for living with it. It's cumulative rejection. It's guilt over things you can never undo. It's finding no pleasure in life, only monotony, the grind, suffering, disappointment, and loneliness. It's wondering what's wrong with you that everyone you know got married, have kids, own homes, advance in their careers, buy nicer cars, but your life is still just like a single college student's.

It's not quite my brain, and it's not quite my mind. It's my _life_ , which in a sense _is_ my mind. Which may or may not be my brain. I think that current psychiatry is confused about which level of abstraction is the one to target - not too surprising, since it's circular, almost strange-loopy. Also, people, even most professionals, don't really know what to do or say when the problem really is your life.

<comment><USER7> I know how you feel and I definitely would call myself only in remission from depression. It never really goes away, but you learn to live with it. Or at least I did.

If you need someone to talk to, contact info in my profile.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> The longstanding taboo I think is actually allowing people to commit suicide. This question rarely enters the debate.

<comment><USER10> Can you elaborate on this? I think it would be virtually impossible to prevent suicide, not to mention various things perhaps not treated as suicide but which are self-caused deaths (repeatedly engaging in very-very-high-risk activity, for example).

<comment><USER9> I mean that suicide is perceived as something to prevent, but I don't often see the conversation about _why_ we are preventing it. Clinical depression is a beast, and many people who pursue treatment seriously continue to struggle with it their whole lives. I think great minds like David Foster Wallace prove how persistent depression is. Suicide is a real escape from the incredible pain that depression can cause, yet we continue to culturally perpetuate the taboo of suicide. The question is; Why is it not okay for people to kill themselves?

<comment><USER11> Why did it take "a great mind like DFW" to accept how persistent depression is? I doubt you meant it but I found the dfw bit to be offensive. You seem to deny the serious pain and suffering my friend experienced simply because he was not a celebrity and/or had an average IQ? The reason I say it is offensive (and that you did not intend it to be) is that it seems as if pre-DFW you assumed my friend was just not smart enough to out think depression, or that given his mediocore mind/life, depression would not need to be that powerful and persistent in order for him to realize the loss of his life was no big deal.

In my opinion the better question to ask would be "Why is it not okay for depressives to kill themselves?" The taboo is related to a very specific suicide. When an individual has brain cancer it is euthanasia, when the individual has depression it is suicide.

<comment><USER9> Sorry to cause offense, I understand what you're saying. The news of DFW death was popular here on HN, and I was using him as an appeal to authority.

I wanted to bring up the difference between suicide and euthanasia, I think it's critical to understanding the issue culturally.

<comment><USER11> I should have said "it could be offensive if I thought you recognized/intended." I have no reason to think you are a bad person, so no harm no foul. The fact that you are thinking about this and asking questions is evidence of a certain level of compassion and intelligence.

DFW wrote a lot of Infinite Jest three blocks south of me and across the street from the coop where I buy groceries. It is still kind of eerie walking by the house with a bag of groceries.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> This is stupid. And I can't believe it doesn't sound stupid to those who are the most likely to attempt suicide seriously.

Why doesn't anyone talk about "misery prevention" ?

<comment><USER13> There's a lot of academic literature that supports the claim that reports of suicide in the media lead to an increase in the number of suicides. This is often referred to as "copycat suicide" or "the Werther effect". As a result, journalists and academics are often very careful about they way they publicly discuss suicide attempts. More information can be found here:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copycat_suicide](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copycat_suicide)

[http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2094294?uid=3737536&ui...](http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2094294?uid=3737536&uid=2&uid=4&sid=21103662438391)

[http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/197/3/234.abstract](http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/197/3/234.abstract)

<comment><USER12> The army officials who deny mental health care to soldiers who later completely unpredictably off themselves at a rate higher than combat casualties must have read some of the same literature.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I've contemplated suicide off-and-on since age 6. It's just a working part of my language. No successful attempts, or failed attempts, or whatever grammar is being built here.

It might partly be influenced by a Tourette's like underlying structure, which would here make it more publicly, or in terms of a biological profile, a symptom. Usually all we see are symptoms in the narration of science.</comment>


Rabbi overcomes fear of Nazis by playing Call of Duty - <AUTHOR> http://www.businessinsider.com/rabbi-playing-call-of-duty-helped-me-conquer-my-fear-of-nazis-2009-3

<comment><USER2> And then his fear returns when he unlocks the Nazi zombie mode...

Anyway. He makes no mention that COD:WAW's, Nazi zombie mode the objective is to survive as long as possible until the inevitable of being ripped apart by Nazi zombies.

For someone whose fear of Nazis came after the fact, I wonder what would his reaction to this mode?</comment>


Advertising Demystified - <AUTHOR> http://ideas.adlove.com/advertising-demystified.html <comment><USER2> "The infographic below explains the mechanisms that make advertising work"

Or rather: The lack of infographic below means we just copy/pasted some text from another site.

<comment><USER3> The infographic and thus 80% of the content of the page exists, but my adblocker in Firefox suppresses it for example.</comment></comment>


Selling to the wrong customers will kill your startup - <AUTHOR> http://blog.close.io/selling-to-the-wrong-customers-will-kill-your-startup

<comment><USER2> Oh, god, yes. I've worked with multiple enterprise-oriented software companies whose founders hustled to make early sales at any cost, and then ended up creating massive long-term costs that far outweighed the value of the initial sales. "Poison chalice" customers are common in the enterprise space -- they look great up front, manage to ameliorate your burn rate, and then you end up mortgaging the future of your company to support a small number of contracts. It's incredibly hard to turn down those contracts, though, especially as they often come in as relationship sales, and because the companies in question rarely staff up sales at the beginning.

I consider this a good example of why founders need to onboard professional sales as soon as reasonably possible; it's a whole lot easier to turn down those poor-fit sales when you've got an active funnel, and it's very hard to build that funnel when your entire company is trying to keep those poor-fit contracts happy.

</comment><comment><USER3> Somewhat off topic: I'm glad to see more startups using gag cartoons in their blogs. I built a platform[0] where you can find and license more cartoons like this for your posts to make them more enjoyable and engaging, while also helping the artists earn money from licensing.

[0] [https://www.gagcartoons.com](https://www.gagcartoons.com)

</comment><comment><USER4> It seems that there are an awful lot of things that will kill your startup. But paying customers is probably not really in the top ten.

</comment><comment><USER5> Brilliant: "Rather than trying to bring as many customers as possible on board, start with just a few perfect customers: the kind who you can build your product for and who will adore your product once they put it to work. Until you have that handful of fanatical customers, you shouldn't focus on scaling your customer base."

</comment><comment><USER6> Don't agree fully. Maybe these 'wrong' customers are actually telling you to shift your focus in another more profitable direction. You need to be flexible as a start-up and listen to the customers. They are in the trenches, not you.

</comment><comment><USER7> Great post. I also wonder about the ops thoughts on free versus paid from a consumer perspective. I wonder what the cost of a free customer is when you have a consumer product with a freemium business model.</comment>


Window that morphs into a balcony - <AUTHOR> http://www.bloomframe.nl/index.php

<comment><USER2> That is a really cool design. I was thinking that they should have made something slide over the "floor" glass though, so you don't get footprint/shoeprints on it (and thus have to clean it after every time you use it).

<comment><USER3> A rug?

Something to save from inevitable upskirts at least.

<comment><USER4> Did they just add that? I mean, it _does_ appear to have a whitish barrier that slides up to cover the floor.

<comment><USER5> That looks like a reflection of the wall.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> They should have shown her big fat boyfriend come out there also, so that #1, I'll feel safe about the weight rating, and #2, I'll know that even if I'm big and fat, this window will help me land babes.

<comment><USER7> Their about page shows a group of people all standing on the balcony. <http://www.bloomframe.nl/about.php>

<comment><USER8> If you'd fit such a balcony to an existing app building and the balcony indeed would hold the weight of a group of people, I would still wonder whether _the_ _house's_ frame would hold the balcony.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> She must live in an area with no flying insects.

</comment><comment><USER10> Am I the only one who thought "hey, mini skirt and transparent balocny floor...nicccceee"

</comment><comment><USER11> Erm, how do you clean the outside of the glass? If you're high enough to benefit from putting a balcony in then this design prevents you from cleaning the outside.

I know that Pilkington made some hydrophobic layer for one of their products a while ago that meant that the rain would clean the window (or a hose), but that was years ago and doesn't seem to have found favour (I've not heard of it since).

</comment><comment><USER12> From the pdf on the site, it looks like it can hold over 1,500 lbs.

[1] 2500 N/m^2 * (2.62m * 1.05m) => pounds

</comment><comment><USER13> very cool. does it have to take so long to deploy or were they just going for dramatic tension?

</comment><comment><USER14> Cool stuff, but the video should be faster, or at least allow you to jump ahead.

<comment><USER5> If the video were faster, people would complain about it being faster than the actual device.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Must be fun to clean the inside of the window

</comment><comment><USER16> An idea so simple that I would never thought of it in a million year.

<comment><USER17> Because it's a solution looking for a problem?

Make a balcony, add a sliding (or pocket) glass door and done. Why would you need to convert between them?

<comment><USER18> in places with long winters, makes sense. Eg. In boston, october - may the weather is crappy, and there is not a need for a balcony. You will have to deal with cleaning it, snow, etc.

Just lock it, and when the good weather comes, open it. Plus it seems that it will be easy to retrofit to existing apt. buildings.

If it is cheap enough, why not.

<comment><USER19> The glass has to provide good insulation then. Also, I don't know for Boston, but in Quebec if there's nothing to stop mosquitoes it's essentially unusable...</comment></comment></comment></comment>


How long do you have to work to earn a Big Mac? - <AUTHOR> http://www.economist.com/daily/chartgallery/displayStory.cfm?story_id=14288808 <comment><USER2> The extremely small amount of time I have to work to earn a big mac seems grossly disproportionate to the labor involved in sourcing, manufacturing, and serving a Big Mac.

Am I really generating N sandwiches worth of value every few minutes?

Or am I (systemically) skimming value off the top of what's produced by individuals who are being paid disproportionately to the value they produce?

<comment><USER3> It doesn't matter. There are millions of people getting paid who produce zero or negative value (if that's possible?) their entire lives. Not that they have intentionally done anything wrong. Many people just end up on a path they believe is right but ends up going nowhere (ever hear of CIA agents chasing some guy their entire life only to find out it was all for nothing?). It's necessary for us to advance so don't feel bad. You chose your path. They chose theirs.

<comment><USER4> Your comment reminds me of something I saw once. I worked a night shift in a video factory in London years ago when I was backpacking around Europe and running low on funds. At one point I was working next to a guy whos job it was to prevent videos going into a shrink wrapper crooked because they'd get stuck in the machine. Thing was, they were all going in straight anyway. The guy was so tired he'd occasionally try to "straighten" the odd video to show he was doing his job - it would then get stuck and start melting. Fortunately after about 20 mins of nodding off he actually fell asleep in his chair at which point everything worked perfectly. Here was a man who was more productive while asleep.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Of course, you're comparing apples and oranges because the price of a Big Mac is determined by the local market for Big Macs. In some places, McDonalds is considered upscale food because it's American, because it's less common, etc. In some places, the quality of McDonalds is much higher (kosher burgers in Israel, I think).

<comment><USER6> The data is also a good indication of brand consciousness in a country. People are paying a premium for the American brand.

In Beijing, a big mac meal could cost double or triple what you could get at a local restaurant. It's seen as high class (partially because it is so expensive) and parents treat their kids to a happy meal on their birthday.

<comment><USER7> This is exactly what I've seen here in Mexico. The majority like to go to McDonald's for a mediocre event, like good grades, a pay raise or something to that effect. You would still be able to get a better meal for much less at your regular taco stand, but people pay the premium for the American brand. Whereas in other parts of the world some people go even twice a day.

<comment><USER8> Sitting here in Michigan, going to McDonald's is of course a total non-event, but going out for a birthday party at the local Mexican joint would not be considered out of line. All of the local Mexican joints are far more "upscale" than a taco stand, of course. (Oh, and Taco Bell is of course lumped in with McDonalds.)

The grass is always greener...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Their "global average" is under 40 minutes. I guess they're only counting the 73 cities in the study for the globe.

<comment><USER10> Yah, that's quite a meaningless average. They should really weight each city for the population it represents.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> For all of us who saw that title, did a quick calculation, then thought: "25 seconds", this should serve as another reminder of just how good we have it as computer programmers.

So yeah, you're making 10x the national average. That means you can take all but 1.2 months _off_ every year to work on your startup and still earn as much as the guy stocking shelves in the grocery store.

It's the reason that bootstrapped software companies work at all: we have a huge (possibly unfair) advantage over everybody else when it comes to time/money balance.

</comment><comment><USER12> I'm guessing this is before taxes (since it works out to about $15/hour in Toronto, which seems right without deductions). It would be interesting to see the tax burden taken into account.

<comment><USER13> It says in the description the wages were _net_ wages. Toronto proper (forget the big box store suburbs) is a great place to find cheap food. You can find tastier, healthier food at a cheaper cost than fast food, which is why I find our fast food prices tend to be lower than a comparable American city. They're forced to compete for the low cost takeout food market. Why buy a Big Mac when you can get Vietnamese submarine sandwiches for a fraction of the price ($1.50), a chicken _and_ beef swarma, a quarter of an extra large pizza (how big slices usually are), or countless other cheap ethnic take-out food? While I was living alone, it was cheaper for me to eat well (quality, taste, variety, health) by dining out than it was for me to shop for all the groceries and cook at home.

What's your opinion on the tax burden in a city like Toronto? When I was an employee I found it wasn't as bad as I was raised to believe it was, though I was only up into the second-highest tax bracket. As a naive comparison (as of 2008/2009), CDN$100K would result in $19891.48 in federal taxes. South of the border, US$100K would result in $21720 in federal taxes. At a provincial/state level, if we compare Ontario vs California, then that same $100K would result in $8458.61 in provincial taxes and $6693 (for a single person) in state taxes. Obviously this isn't a precise comparison because the U.S. has some deductions (notably regarding mortgages) that Canada does not. But the reverse is true too, and in any event, it's not like some order of magnitude difference that I thought would exist with all the complaining I used to hear on talk radio here :-)

<comment><USER12> Yeah, looking at my Canadian paychecks vs. American paychecks, it's basically a wash (you didn't mention the nightmare known as FICA). There are a couple of other things to consider - In Canada your healthcare is paid for by your taxes, but in the US sales tax is generally lower (and on some things like liquor and cigarettes, significantly lower).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> About a decade ago a group of contract software developers (of which I was one) decided to figure out how many seconds it took each of us to earn a cup of coffee (working for a bank, nothing was free!).

For the person who earned their coffee fastest, the machine hadn't even dropped the cup into place before he'd earned it.

</comment><comment><USER15> No wonder everyone in Chicago is a little on the large side ;)</comment>


Europe's solar orbiter begins its journey to the Sun tonight - <AUTHOR> https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/02/europes-solar-orbiter-begins-its-journey-to-the-sun/ <comment><USER2> The protection on the front of the orbiter is quite a combination of old/new tech.

 _Solar Orbiter's radiation-hardened instruments will be protected from the sweltering heat by a shield covered with doors that periodically open to allow the spacecraft's instruments to image the sun. About half the size of an average parking space, the Solar Orbiter's heat shield is a mix of modern and ancient technology. Its outermost layer is a strip of titanium just a fraction of a millimeter thick and coated on the sun-facing side with charred animal bone. This is the same stuff used by prehistoric humans to paint cave walls, but its properties also make it great for radiating heat away from a spacecraft._

The process for coating the Titanium heat shield with the black charred animal bone is developed by an Irish company, called Enbio: [http://www.enbio.eu/thermal-control/](http://www.enbio.eu/thermal-control/)

</comment><comment><USER3> Going to the Sun at night looks a bit counter-intuitive. I hope the scientists have everything covered. Godspeed.

<comment><AUTHOR> They'll reach it after sunrise, duh ;-)

or...

This way it doesn't get too hot and the probe can have less thermal isolation.

<comment><USER4> On BBC Radio 4 this morning a scientist (presumably from the ESA team) mentioned that the thermal protection is so effective that some of the instruments have heaters to keep them warm enough.

<comment><AUTHOR> > the thermal protection is so effective that some of the instruments have > heaters to keep them warm enough

That's very impressive.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Perhaps worth noting that this article is a day old and it was launched last night:

[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science- environment-51420402](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51420402)

Edit: Avoid the HYS comments....

<comment><USER5> > _Edit: Avoid the HYS comments...._

For good mental health, I thoroughly recommend a uBlock cosmetic filter to hide the complete HYS DIV block which works on ALL BBC pages. For added benefit, also do the same on all news sites that have comment sections. Excluding HN, of course.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> > Its outermost layer is a strip of titanium just a fraction of a millimeter > thick and coated on the sun-facing side with charred animal bone. This is > the same stuff used by prehistoric humans to paint cave walls, but its > properties also make it great for radiating heat away from a spacecraft.

Is this true? Sounds very sensational press.

<comment><USER7> Well they could've said Calcium, but that sounds mundane

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> "Europe's solar orbiter begins its journey to the Sun tonight". Has the title changed just to make the joke? I like it. :)</comment>


Amateurs Identify U.S. Spy Satellite Behind President Trump's Tweet - <AUTHOR> https://www.npr.org/2019/09/02/756673481/amateurs-identify-u-s-spy-satellite-behind-president-trumps-tweet <comment><USER2> Previous related convo: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20851501](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20851501)

</comment><comment><USER3> With every passing day, Trump increases my amazement of his ability to do harm and destroy things wherever he turns. If I was working for military intelligence, I would probably be furious about this idiot spoiling state secrets at every turn to benefit himself.

<comment><USER4> I don't think he is benefiting himself.

I think he's just fucking things up because he can, and he gets his jollies by fucking things up. He doesn't care what the consequences are, because whatever happens, it's not going to hurt him.

I used to call him the Shitposter-in-Chief. But I don't think he's just shitposting.</comment></comment>


DOJ Probes EV Startup Nikola over Claims It Misled Investors - <AUTHOR> https://www.wsj.com/articles/justice-department-probes-electric-truck-startup-nikola-over-claims-it-misled-investors-11600199462 <comment><AUTHOR> Quick recap:

Sept 8 - Nikola and GM announce partnership [1]

Sept 10 - Hindenberg Research, a short seller, publishes damning report on misrepresentations made by Nikola and its founder Trevor Milton [2]

Sept 14 - Milton/Nikola publish rebuttal to shortseller's claims [3]

Sept 14 - SEC probe in relation to shortseller's claims is reported [4]

Sept 15 - Hindenberg responds to Milton/Nikola rebuttal. Alleges that substance of most allegations and questions were unaddressed by rebuttal [5]

Sept 15 - DOJ probe in relation to shortseller's claims is reported [6]

[1] [https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/home.detail.html/content...](https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2020/sep/0908-gen2fcs.html)

[2] [https://hindenburgresearch.com/nikola/](https://hindenburgresearch.com/nikola/)

[3] [https://nikolamotor.com/press_releases/nikola-sets-the- recor...](https://nikolamotor.com/press_releases/nikola-sets-the-record- straight-on-false-and-misleading-short-seller-report-96)

[4] [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-14/sec- said-...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-14/sec-said-to- examine-nikola-over-short-seller-s-fraud-allegations?sref=WJKVI5nK)

[5] [https://hindenburgresearch.com/nikola- response/](https://hindenburgresearch.com/nikola-response/)

[6] [https://www.wsj.com/articles/justice-department-probes- elect...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/justice-department-probes-electric- truck-startup-nikola-over-claims-it-misled-investors-11600199462)

<comment><USER2> Trevor Milton also bought 14,000 shares today by pledging the shares he currently owns as collateral and borrowing money. I think that this is the beginning of the end.

<comment><USER3> It rather seems that the beginning of the end was the desperate so-called "deal" done with GM. It's nicely, or brutally, summed up in a Seeking Alpha article [1]:

 _The deal shows Nikola doesn't have any technology of its own, be it battery technology or fuel cell technology.

The deal also shows that Nikola is willing to forego any possibility of an economic return, just to further the story and pump the stock._

Arstechnica also has a piece [2] today about the deal.

[1] [https://seekingalpha.com/article/4374438-gm-and-nikola- fine-...](https://seekingalpha.com/article/4374438-gm-and-nikola-fine-deal- for-gm)

[2] [https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/09/why-gm-is-sticking- with...](https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/09/why-gm-is-sticking-with-nikola- despite-fraud-allegations/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> [https://archive.is/9OFq8](https://archive.is/9OFq8)

</comment><comment><USER5> They clearly lied about things that are relevant to the stock. And when he was directly speaking to investors.

</comment><comment><USER6> "The fraud cycle follows the business cycle."</comment>