Study finds the most prosperous U.S. cities are nearly all in the West - <AUTHOR> https://venturebeat.com/2017/09/25/study-finds-the-most-prosperous-u-s-cities-are-nearly-all-in-the-west/ <comment><USER2> The East has more manufacturing and rural area. Also there are several huge companies located there in the West like Apple, Microsoft, EA, Sun, ect. The East also has a lower cost of living. I my home state a rather lavish home for a quarter million dollars would get you a 10' x 15' condo.

Tech needs food and manufacturing. You can't have one without the other.

</comment><comment><USER3> ...and most of them are joined at the hip with big tech--which will probably not be doing so well after the rest of the world figures out how strategic it is and starts rolling their own.</comment>


Threats to macOS Users - <AUTHOR> https://securelist.com/threats-to-macos-users/93116/ <comment><USER2> Phishing is an extremely effective attack vector. My company's security group regularly and randomly sends out phishing emails. Those falling for it are sent to training for how to identify a phishing attack. I've heard anecdotally that some people have had to go to the training three times! Which I don't say to gloat - but merely to point out how well that attack vector works.

</comment><comment> java-man I know of no email client that tries to detect and warn about phishing or other forms of attacks.

Message contains executables masquerading as data files?

From: domain name is different from the received from:?

Homoglyphs in the domain name?

Tracking pixels?

White on white text?

Suspicious Javascript?

etc.</comment>


Ask HN: How do you come up with creative, original ideas? - <AUTHOR> Sam Altman said that "original thinking", ability think independently is one of the best predictors of founder success.
I'm good at learning and understanding things, but bad at inventing my own original interesting ideas, and I want to get better.
How do you come up with new insightful ideas? Did you learn some mental tools, skills, or habits that helped you get better at this? Are there any good books on creativity/invention/innovation that can help? <comment><USER2> I don't know that I can say I'm particularly good at this, but to the extent that I do have any original / good ideas, I think a big part of it is this:

1\. Know at least a little bit, about a lot of stuff.

2\. Know a lot about at least a few things.

3\. Constantly trawl for new "stuff" (eg, read books, magazines, the web, watch documentaries, etc.)

4\. Think about how to combine different bits of the "stuff" you have in your head. Take notes, write down lots of ideas, even if they're dumb at a first glance. Keep chewing on things, and eventually the penny drops and you see some connection between things that makes sense.

5\. Related to that, and I don't do this well enough myself, is "spend a lot of time thinking about the kinds of problems people have".

I've read a few books on creativity / innovation / etc., but I'm not sure I can say any of them specifically helped, although a few of the ideas may have been useful without my being consciously aware of it. I read some of the _Lateral Thinking_ book and I vaguely recall thinking it seemed somewhat useful. YMMV. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateral_thinking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateral_thinking)

I also recommend Alan Kay's video series on "How To Invent The Future".

Part I: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id1WShzzMCQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id1WShzzMCQ)

Part II: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e8VZlPBx_0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e8VZlPBx_0)

Another thing: I think sometimes ideas come out that are "ahead of their time" and seemingly die on the vine, or just get left behind. But sometimes when the environment changes, those ideas become ripe to get re-invented. There's a book title _Rethink_ that sorta deals with this idea. [https://www.amazon.com/Rethink-Surprising-History-New- Ideas/...](https://www.amazon.com/Rethink-Surprising-History-New- Ideas/dp/1501145606)

Anyway, I think there's some value in reviewing "out of date" literature on various topics, and look for things that seemingly died, that may be ready for you to pick up and run with.

Finally, there's this book: [https://www.amazon.com/Intuition-Pumps-Other- Tools-Thinking/...](https://www.amazon.com/Intuition-Pumps-Other-Tools- Thinking/dp/1491518871)

I bought it a while back, but honestly haven't had time to get to it yet. But if seems like something that you might find interesting.

<comment><AUTHOR> Wow, what an amazing reply! Thank you so much, this is very helpful!</comment></comment>


I'm tired - <AUTHOR> http://www.andymoore.ca/2013/04/im-tired/ <comment><USER2> I hate that feeling.. the knowledge that engaging in the discussion is going to be exhausting and the chance of making traction is slim, and the feeling that inaction is the only reasonable alternative. Allow me to suggest another alternative to actual discussion in situations like this:

Tell the person to fuck off.

I'm serious. It registers disagreement, and to any rational person the lack of interest in attempting serious discussion. Ideal? No. Preferable to inaction? Absolutely. Plus where do you even start with a comment like that? I'd prefer to make it clear that I'm shocked than do someone who would say that the favor of jumping into a thoughtful discussion about how the merits of their opinion.

<comment><USER3> For a bit of nuance, instead of "fuck off", you could try something like "I disagree, but I'm pretty tired of that conversation", and change the topic.

Statement made, stupid comment brushed off, nobody got hurt.

The whole "down to their level and beat you with experience" thing comes to mind.

<comment><USER4> Actually, I would argue that "fuck off" is the better response. "I disagree" implies that there's grounds for legitimate discussion when the initial remark is so far out of line there really isn't.

<comment><USER5> While I agree wholeheartedly, remember that some of the problem is the current dichotomy. The sexist ass on one hand and the too non-confrontational to say anything on the other. I'd posit that it's more useful to figure out a realistic way to get that second group to speak out--even if it's not a hearty "fuck off".

<comment><USER4> I'm a non-confrontational person myself actually. It took me over 35 years to learn being that direct is actually less stressful in certain circumstances. Quite arguably, I'm still learning it. We get it in our heads that we owe the asshole an explanation. That's a trap. The explanation becomes it's own source of stress. Odds are strong, the asshole knows they're being an asshole. No, explanation is required.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> This was painful to read. It's hard to get into the usual is-there-sexism-in- tech-or-not debate because this is so beyond the pale-dysfunctional. First, that anyone could say such a thing in polite company. Second, that the rest of the table did not demand the offending person to leave. Seriously, how is anyone, espicially the targeted woman, expected to enjoy their dinner and have a non-awkward conversation after that?

And really, this is not just a problem of some guy saying something kind of sexist. It's a guy who thinks the scales are so much in his favor that he can just say such a thing to a stranger without really offending people. He's not beyond hope, but he's not someone you should break bread with without making clear at he was completely out of line.

Edit: I'm not helping much with the OP's guilt trip...it's never easy thinking about what you should've done when the shock was over. The OP shouldn't chastise himself for not throwing a punch or making some other dramatic stand. But leaving out of protest is always an option. If it makes the troll and everyone who decided to stay feel awkward, well, that's their decision.

<comment><USER7> > But leaving out of protest is always an option.

Why should I ruin my evening due to this guy? What exactly are you protesting? Do you think this kind of person gives a shit if you walk away? Do you think the entire rest of the table will follow you? (Answer: No.) Stand up to him and resolve it; if no progress is made and it turns ugly, that person is no longer welcome at your table and you move on. I laid out a template here[0].

I see lots of people saying "walk away" -- you're letting the troll win. That's _your_ dinner. This isn't like high school where you can just up and walk away and get whispers going in the hallway about what happened at lunch last Tuesday, OMG! Handle it like a grown person.

This is important: _TROLLS WILL CONTINUE TROLLING AS LONG AS YOUR SILLY CLINGING TO POLITENESS MEANS YOU WON'T CONFRONT THEM_. Your being polite _enables them_. Think about that. Just don't get it wrong and draw down on a harmless comment that you misunderstood.

[0]: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5483332>

<comment><USER8> It is not _your_ dinner. It is everyone at that table's dinner, troll's included. And you seem to be stuck on ejecting him from the table. If the majority of the table agrees with you you can probably shame him into leaving. How are you going to do that if you don't have that consensus or if he refuses? Are you going to get physical?

I would probably try to make him leave first, but failing that, walking away is the appropriate choice. You are passing judgment, in a way, on the whole party when you do this. You are saying that this behavior is not acceptable in your company and if the present company disagrees then this is important enough for you to remove yourself from that company because it is not something you can tolerate.

We cannot force people to be polite or even tolerant. We can choose who we keep company with.

<comment><USER9> Simply leaving doesn't hold the aggressor accountable for what they've said; I think it should be a last resort.

If you leave, probably there's awkward silence, someone makes a halfhearted joke, and eventually the conversation changes to something else. Out of sight, out of mind.

If you stay and demand an apology politely but firmly, the aggressor is in an awkward position. An apology is something utterly reasonable to demand and there's a lot of social pressure around that, at least if you want to be seen as a (relatively) mature person.

It _also_ gives the aggressor a way to reconcile. They're probably more likely to reflect than if you just flounce; the possibility for further conversation is still there.

Of course, that said, if they apologize insincerely or not at all, there's not much you can do but leave. But you don't want to raise the stakes that high until you've offered some concrete way for the aggressor to end the confrontation.

<comment><USER8> Oh, certainly. You should first try to hold them accountable. If the rest of the table is more concerned with getting past the awkward confrontation than dealing with the aggressor's behavior, then you leave. I was arguing against this position:

> I see lots of people saying "walk away" -- you're letting the troll win. > [..] TROLLS WILL CONTINUE TROLLING AS LONG AS YOUR SILLY CLINGING TO > POLITENESS MEANS YOU WON'T CONFRONT THEM.

Walking away isn't just politeness and it doesn't mean you don't confront them. But this type of confrontation is not productive if there is not a consensus at the table. It devolves into the kind of situation that just makes the original victim feel smaller and worse. You end up throwing a tantrum trying to force the rest of the table to punish the aggressor.

Stand up against this kind of behavior, certainly. Hopefully this will give the others at the table courage to denounce it also and make the offender unwelcome. But becoming belligerent and trying to force him to leave, as _tiredofcareer_ seemed to suggest, is not a productive way to handle the situation.

Best scenario is when you call the person out on their remarks and they apologize. Short of that, you hope everyone else makes it socially difficult for them to stay without apologizing. Worst case you leave.

I also strongly disagree with this:

> This isn't like high school where you can just up and walk away and get > whispers going in the hallway about what happened at lunch last Tuesday, > OMG!

Yes, this is not highschool. We all expect to be more mature than that. If a friend of mine left a dinner saying, "I'm sorry, this behavior is not acceptable to me and I can't stay," that would make me seriously reconsider my position. This person is my friend. I value their opinion. If they are so upset that they feel they cannot in good conscience stay then I must have seriously misjudged the importance of what just happened. That is the reaction you are trying for.

<comment><USER7> > If a friend of mine left a dinner saying, "I'm sorry, this behavior is not > acceptable to me and I can't stay," that would make me seriously reconsider > my position.

Because you're rational. Someone who doubles down on a comment about someone's tits being her weather helm for success after being lightly called on it is not rational. You can't put yourself in this guy's shoes, because you aren't that guy. I've dealt with this kind of person before, directly, with significant results.

I, personally, would make a joke at your expense after you're gone and get the rest of the table back on my side. Because I swim in the middle of this moral compass. Something like: "wonder what got under his skin, sorry about the scene, there, guys;" bam, I just got the table back on my side and now _you're_ the idiot. I know this because I've been in this exact situation after I offended someone into leaving my company. Next thing said was "yeah, he's been testy lately, maybe he needs some time alone". We completely forgot about my poor remark that shoved him away in the first place. As much as you'd like to believe you've "sent a message" to me and the other people at the table, we've really said "what a dork" and moved on with our lives with minimal interruption.

Weak people are going to do two things in that scenario: (a) not follow you from the table when you "make your stand" by fleeing, because they're not sure about it, and (b) instantly flop back to wondering what the hell is wrong with _you_ after an ever-so-gentle shove from the original offender in your absence.

Emotional manipulation is comically easy, and after you've worked with typical Silicon Valley types for 10+ years, this is a pretty consistent roadmap.

> Best scenario is when you call the person out on their remarks and they > apologize.

I don't understand what you're saying here. I'm positing that you should call the person out on the remarks and demand apology. You say the same thing in this sentence, then spend the rest of your comment explaining how I'm wrong. Making him leave is the last step of my escalation path, which I laid out in the linked comment, which it seems like you didn't read.

<comment><USER8> > Because you're rational. Someone who doubles down on a comment about > someone's tits being her weather helm for success after being lightly called > on it is not rational.

This kind of person is not the kind of friend I keep. And anyways, this is more directed at the rest of the table who lacked the conviction to act.

> get the rest of the table back on my side.

Sounds like the whole table is full of people who are not actually my friends and not who I am interested in spending my time with. I am glad to have left.

I read your linked comment. I do agree with you about the first course of action. What do you do when you get step 8 and the person says, "Pff. No, I'm staying." Are you going to forcibly eject them? What if the rest of the table doesn't care enough? Get into a fight?

I disagree with your strong stance against leaving the situation. You characterize it as weak and ineffectual. I call it choosing who you keep company with. I myself am coming up on 15 years as a software developer. Maybe it is a cultural disconnect as I am in Austin, not Silicon Valley, but outside of college I have _never_ been party to an incident as offensive as that described by the OP. I don't work for companies full of people like this, I don't hire people like this, and I don't socialize with people like this. If someone insists on remaining too immature to be respectful and tolerant of other people I do not want to waste my time and energy on them.

> Emotional manipulation is comically easy

This confuses me. I do not know too many people who would be easily manipulated in this way. Certainly not my coworkers. Maybe young kids in their early twenties who have still not figured out who they are.

You shape your society by who you choose to keep company with and by the expectations you place on that company. People in my life know that I will treat them with respect and courtesy and will deal with them honestly. They know I expect the same in return. If the rest of the table sides with the aggressor, or is unwilling to side with me and demand the aggressor apologize then at some point I determine that this is not the company I want to keep and I leave. There are a lot of things I will tolerate, because nobody is perfect --surely I'm not perfect--and people have differences. But a persistent lack of basic respect and civility is something I won't tolerate.

Finally:

> "wonder what got under his skin, sorry about the scene, there, guys;" bam, I > just got the table back on my side and now you're the idiot.

This is understandable because we are strangers, but saying this after I left would not likely make me look like an idiot. I am not going to cause a big scene when I leave. I am still going to be polite and leave calmly. It would be hard to label me as testy. In an actual situation I would probably be a little more verbose: "I'm sorry guys, that's not cool/that' not OK/this isn't acceptable _(depends on setting)_. I'm going to head out. I'll see you later. _(to the injured party)_ You want to finish dinner/have dessert/grab coffee at <destination>? _(if they say no)_ OK, have a good night." Then leave calmly.

Ironically, you are causing a big scene when you force conversation to stop until the guy apologizes. If the rest of the table agrees with you, great. I am not saying a big scene is always a bad thing, but if the table doesn't side with you then you look like the idiot. Maybe in their minds they are thinking, "Here tiredofcareer goes again. He's always getting worked up about something. Just give him what he wants so he'll calm down."

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Why is this even a topic anymore? I don't understand how this can even enter into someone's mind as an acceptable remark to make. This is the 21st century - if you don't treat women with respect and as equals then please, don't show your face in public anymore until you learn normal human etiquette.

<comment><USER11> It wasn't enough for me to simply upvote the above comment. Please consider this a double-upvote of emphatic agreement.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> When I was in basic training for the Army, my drill instructor told us that they can turn us into soldiers but there is nothing they can do to fix 18 years of bad parenting.

For me, there are certain traits and ways of thinking that I just can't tolerate. In some cases, I can tolerate those beliefs if the person is able to keep them locked up when I'm around. Usually this person is smart enough to know a certain belief if controversial or similar and knows when to keep quiet.

Some people know when to keep quiet, some people don't. Some people can swear like a sailor when drinking with friends at a private location but have the good sense not to do the same when out at a family location on a normal day.

People probably can't / won't change. Discussion and arguments won't do it. Even if you could change a person, it's not worth the effort for you to try. It's best to just cut the cord right there and move on with your life.

<comment><USER13> Not sure why this comment is being downvoted. It's entirely true. The reason we've got people in the world who make comments like this is because they were raised in an environment where it was normal, and they think it's normal. We've got bad eggs in all walks of life. Society moves on and ultimately those people will suffer for going against the grain. It's a shame that ladies are so overwhelmed by this in our industry but you can't let the dweebs in society get you down.

Most of the people in her group shared the same reaction: they were surprised and defended her. I realize that ladies have it tough in our industry, but it's not a 50:50 men vs women war.

When you're in a jam like that, there isn't much you can do. You don't engage them. When someone says shit like that, you just ignore them. Or change the subject. Or leave. As the author said herself ... she isn't a confrontational person. Most women aren't. So, you just drop it and walk away. I do it all the time. I have no patience for stupid people, regardless of their gender.

<comment><USER14> > When you're in a jam like that, there isn't much you can do.

Sure there is. You can switch majors. Or quietly put your resume out in a different industry. Go somewhere your superiors and peers actually give a shit about whether people are treating you horribly.

What do you think happened to all the women who _aren't_ programmers?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I once witnessed overt racism at an event. I didn't know either party. To this day, I regret not intervening.

Perhaps I'm now over compensating, but I became "that guy" who always speaks up. That time, I was so shocked, I didn't know how to respond. Replaying it in my head over and over, now I don't need to hesitate when it happens again.

Note: you're not persuading the antagonist. Screw him. By speaking up, you're putting him and everyone on else on notice that pathological behavior will not be tolerated.

A year or two back, we had a guest female speaker at a local user group. I felt that she wasn't being given the same level of respect afforded every other speaker. People talked over her, interrupted her, etc.

So I said something. I pissed some people off. Others laughed at me.

But next time we had a female speaker, EVERYONE was super courteous. They even joked that if anyone was rude, Specialist (me) would bring on the hurt.

My advice to Andy Moore, and everyone, is to learn from his experience, and prepare for the next time, until such time that the trogs realize they can keep their sexism, racist, hatred, etc to themselves.

</comment><comment><USER16> You know what I'm tired of: condescension.

The guy who was making sexist statements is ignorant, not a "fucking loser."

How do you make these situations positive for everyone?

Empathy. Empathy for all sides.

Everyone exposed to this kind of social ignorance is a victim if you dig deep enough.

In the tech world we are quick to call users idiots, each other inept, ideas retarded...

I ask for empathy.

Empathy for this offensive guy who most likely grew up intimidated by social situations. He was picked on and bullied, and never grew past it. If I ventured a guess, I'd say he's still in pain, and still not sure how to act due to years of relative social isolation. He is simply ignorant of the effect of his actions. He literally knows no other ways to relate.

Calling him names makes us no different from him, or the people who encouraged his social isolation. Do you think shaming him will convince him we're right? He'll just view us as "another bully" and continue his anti-social behavior.

Encouraging growth through understanding, not through social imposition or public shaming is how we resolve these situations positively.

<comment><USER17> While I'm not going to argue against empathy in general, registering some blunt disapproval is less of a bullying behavior than saying nothing and passive-aggressively excluding someone, which seems to be the runner-up suggestion in the thread.

Drawing moral equivalence between participating in hostility against women and hostility against the rude and ignorant is a bit of a stretch, too.

<comment><USER16> Registering blunt disapproval may stop the behavior temporarily, but what caused it in the first place? It can't be entirely due to a general passive acceptance of such statements.

Our approach to ending racism was similar, and it was effectual, but over a great period of time incorporating generations of ignorance.

However, there were individuals who managed to help end the passive acceptance of racism by taking a vested interest in changing the thinking of one individual, all without guilting them into compliance.

Exhibit A. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B24qxWPPVbM>

The NAACP president of Oklahoma, Wade Watts convinced the imperial wizard of a national KKK organization to reconsider his perspective on race. Rev. Watts did not accomplish this through expressing disgust or disapproval, but through patience and empathy. Johnny Lee Carly was swayed from imperial wizard to anti-racism activist. Wade saved Johnny's progeny from harboring the same ignorance, accomplishing in a single generation what had previously taken acts of congress, violence, protest and over a hundred years of blunt disapproval.

I'm not saying Wade's approach is the only way to accomplish a means to societal change, but it can change the perspective of an individual.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> This is why I never use the word "fuck" in common discorse. For these situations exactly. So that when I hold up my hand and say "$name, fuck you" it goes off like a bomb and I don't have to say anything else.

</comment><comment><USER19> Not this again. The kind of people who make this kind of comment don't give a shit about this kind of blogpost.

<comment><USER20> No, but we who could stand up and confront those people do. And we can be encouraged to do so by this kind of post.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> And the usual stack of classic comments building on there already as well. "Man the fuck up bitch".

Some guy talking about how he's totally on side but somehow is unable to keep himself from commenting on her breasts; presumably he subscribes to the idea that if you can pretend to be ironic, you can still say it. Classic stuff.

</comment><comment><USER22> Despite the feeling that "some people can't / won't change" I believe in teachable moments[1]. I can't recall where I heard this, but someone once said that racism and bigotry were diminished in this country when people shamed friends and family members for making insensitive remarks.

1\. <http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teachable_moment#section_3>

</comment><comment><USER23> > Defenses and arguments tried to be brought up, but conversation quickly > moved on with the men talking over the woman until she just sat there > quietly and resigned.

Hmm. Why haven't I seen a single woman post an article about this issue? I'm tired of all the me-tooism from men about this subject. Yes, sexism is abhorrent fallacy, but inverse-sexism is still sorta sexism -- enough with the White Knights, already.

Not to defend the guy who made some joke about tits, but I look forward to the day when we _can_ be more than humorless automatons regarding this issue. Relevant: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgqUQ17sYm0>

</comment><comment><USER24> I suggest next time this happens saying, "you're being rude", and change the topic. I've gotten really good results with that statement, ymmv, but hth.

</comment><comment><USER25> I would have calmly said just this: "That's not an acceptable thing to say".

No yelling or arguing or rational reasoning: People like that guy just need to understand simply and clearly that it is not acceptable.

</comment><comment><USER26> Can we tell the GDC committee? There were witnesses, and getting him expelled from future GDC events seems like an appropriate reaction.

<comment><USER7> Speaking based on experience with what happened to Jesse Noller and the PSF _just two weeks ago_ , you do _not_ want to escalate this to any level where someone might lose a job or be asked to leave the conference. The same people that cannot handle social situations with women without discussing their tits resort to death threats and nonstop harassment when one of "their own" is chastised publicly for such a thing. If I were Jesse, I'd be having second thoughts about my volunteer work after that shitshow. It's just not worth it to be kind to these people. Ever.

Someone else I know wrote a blog post about the Adria Richards thing. He then moderated one comment which was extremely offensive. In retaliation, the person that wrote the comment launched a denial of service against his blog. This industry is full of emotional children that cannot handle being adults, and most of them can never admit that they might be wrong. Had OP confronted this jackass, it probably would have gone nowhere, and running to the cops/conference people is just shoving your problems on someone else. There is just no easy solution here without stepping up and being confrontational.

I'm assuming the game development people (different industry) and GDC might have missed that brouhaha, even though it was all over the news, so I'm sparing the benefit of the doubt that game development should have learned a valuable lesson from the PSF's (and Python community's) misfortune.

<comment><USER26> The notice to the individual need not be overtly public-facing. It could just be a dialog between the conference committee (who should care about the quality of its attendees) and the person in question. I personally would also prefer less public vitriol everywhere.

<comment><USER7> Okay, sure, but at that point why not just do it yourself? You're basically saying "I can't handle this myself, can you talk to the guy for me?"

<comment><USER26> Who's the "you" in your sentence?

The original poster? I really don't understand the point of your comment. Bars have bouncers for a reason.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> There is a website <http://notalwaysright.com/>

It's an aggregation of stories from people working in the service industry who have horror stories to tell from the customers they serviced. If you read through a few stories you might pick up on a anomaly that seems to pervade. Particularly any story from the "Awesome Customers" category.

For some stories we see normal, self-righteous, mildly ignorant, comical behavior, typical of human beings in general I would say. Other stories have this strange, caricature, like quality about them. People come off like comic book villains, cackling maniacally as they monologue about how demographic X is inferior in way Y. They say statements which are way beyond the pale of current society, and in these stories one brave individual stands against their unwavering ignorance in a triumphant display, shaming the villain.

I think you'll pick up on it as well. These stories are fantasies. Spirited teenagers imagining themselves slaying the ignorance and wrong-doings of their bigoted elders, and reporting it as if it actually happened for the mass approval of people on Facebook.

This story has such a quality about it.

93 points and counting.

<comment><USER17> Except for the part where the OP says he didn't confront the guy but wishes he did.

<comment><USER27> That's the thing, if things had happened as the OP said, the reaction from any of the human beings I know would of being proportionately extreme. Something is just a bit surreal here.

<comment><USER28> Really? You don't see around you the "bro-grammer" culture, and the promo girls at tech trade shows? While, like you, I like to think I surround myself with like-minded rational people - and I honestly think I manage to do that in my social/friendship circles - it's _abundantly_ clear that there's many many people in programming/tech profession that'd laugh along with the comment related in the story.

I think your skepticism is misplaced.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Where are these people working, that saying something like "award winning tits" wouldn't be a firing offense?

<comment><USER13> In an at-will employment environment, sure, maybe. Anywhere else it's definitely not enough to be let go for sexual harassment. One remark is nothing.

But these are the kinds of people you don't want to hire.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> Server's overloaded. Cached version here: [https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:pSYnpq...](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:pSYnpqjBPckJ:www.andymoore.ca/2013/04/im- tired/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=firefox-a)

</comment><comment><USER31> Did the dude who made the comment say it in front of her? That's so awkward! Who does that?

She didn't speak up, either?

<comment><USER32> She did speak up. See the comments (you can't at the moment because the traffic's taken the site down). And the comments have a guy who is behaving exactly like that.

To paraphrase - she tried to make the witty comeback but was talked over, and part of the point is this isn't isolated, she gets rape threats every game release; can you imagine how wearing that is?

She suggests that others also need to speak up - a quick "Not cool, dude" to anyone who behaves like this.

<comment><USER33> > she gets rape threats every game release

seriously, the internet is a big rape threat. are there any smart people that treat random anon trolling seriously? (except opportunists and journalists that by occasion use such crap as a 'proof' of whatever)

<comment><USER32> Whether you treat it seriously (as in, call the police) depends on the level of implied threat. But are you really just saying ignore it? Think about the spam you get. It's a little annoying. Now think if all of that was threats directed at you.

It's not just about whether you take them all seriously, it's whether this constant drumbeat of abuse gets to you. Would you still love your dream job after a year of that? Would you just want the relief of bowing out of any kind of public life?

Women deserve better. Telling them to toughen up doesn't help, it's blaming the victim. Try speaking out instead.

<comment><USER33> a few years ago, a member of our national female volleyball team resigned from sport because somebody on the internet, anonymously, wrote she has fat legs (at least that was her official statement). the question is not if a woman has the right to get her feelings hurt, but whether empowering the trolls by admitting publically you very much care what they write is an effective thing to do in fighting this behavior.

btw rape threats that show a slight chance of being 'real' (say, not a frustrated teenager or drunk idiot from the other side of the globe) should be reported, even just for the sake of it. that said, knowing certain aspects of the gaming community, I imagine there is a bigger chance of the latter.

> Women deserve better.

I agree.

> it's blaming the victim.

hold your horses, I never did that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> I couldn't read this.

When you are intellectually advanced to the point where sexist jokes simply make you want to rip out the throat of the party saying them, you begin to realize that disrespect for women is not only illogical but very perverse. Telling someone they have "good tits" is not funny or even sexy to the party that it is said to.

 _It's a fucking disgrace to humanity._ Not only is it objectifying, but it's insulting, rude, and so incredibly improper.

I thought we had reached the point where our minds found others attractive based upon intelligence, and not on physical appearance. I thought we had reached the point where sexism had all but disappeared.

Of course, as I always am, I was wrong.

This is quite frankly getting ridiculous. I don't tell women anything about their physical appearance, unless I've known them for a long time; which is when an "You're a very beautiful person" _may_ be appropriate.

I know many others that go by the same maxim. It's a shame some men haven't matured enough to behave.

</comment><comment><USER35> Wait, nobody's even bringing up the fact that maybe the game developer didn't get the pass on merit alone? Yeah, the comment was rude (people are rude everywhere, always), but maybe he had a point.

<comment><USER36> That is utterly irrelevant to this conversation.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> The cached version is a little hard on the eyes so here is text:

Last night was the end of an amazing GDC trip. A handful of remaining friends and I made a journey out to JapanTown and we had an amazing meal. It was a great way to end the trip.

One of my friends, and a fellow game developer, was there for dinner. Her trip to GDC was planned last-minute, thanks to someone obtaining her a (very expensive!) all-access pass.

When recounting this chain of events, a male game developer at the table said that she only got the GDC pass "because of her tits."

The table largely responded with aghast looks and silence. It was brought up that perhaps her ticket was thanks to being an award-winning game developer.

The same male responded with the ever-classy "sure, award winning tits."

Defenses and arguments tried to be brought up, but conversation quickly moved on with the men talking over the woman until she just sat there quietly and resigned.

I'm posting about this because this shit has to stop.

I'm posting about this because I was silent when I should have spoken up. I shouldn't have let the conversation sweep this transgression under the rug.

I'm posting this because I am tired of being made complicit (due to inaction) when these things happen. I'm tired of having to yell at people for this shit every night at GDC. I'm tired because I want this to end, and I'm tired of having this conversation over and over again.

I'm tired of feeling like shit because I don't have enough energy to defend my friends every fucking DAY.

I'm terrified of losing friends over this.

I'm not a very confrontational person. Usually I deal with shit like this by making a mental note to avoid the person in the future. And now that my friends' feelings are hurt and people are accusing me of inaction and being a bad person because of it, I feel like my last few years of championing anti- harassment policies (and ENFORCING them) doesn't even matter.

It sucks that my entire personality can be judged on my last exchange.

So, hey: if you are a sexist ass around me, and think it's just ironic meta- humour, know that it's hurting me. It hurts me for days, weeks, months afterwards. It hurts my friends. It hurts my business. It makes me less creative, it makes me want to just hide in my basement all day. It makes me not want to go to GDC again.

If I don't tell this to your face it's probably because I'm tired of having this exchange this week. It makes me feel angry, upset, and sad. I hope someone links you to this.

And if you're going to write me to apologize, you'd sure as shit better apologize to the actual people you pissed on first.

I'm so tired.

<comment><USER38> Here's an even more readable gist.io: <http://gist.io/5297363>

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> How does a wise and tactful man react to a tactless remark in a large group?

He doesn't. He might try to direct the conversation to more agreeable matters. He certainly doesn't draw attention to the offense and impress it indelibly in the minds of the others.

Generally, you are better off improving your own behavior than that of others. As Dale Carnegie pointed out, it's not only more profitable; it's less dangerous.

</comment><comment><USER40> So I'm supposed to feel sorry for you because women are discriminated against? Why are you making yourself the focus of this story?

There's a real story of discrimination here - against the woman who was insulted.

"I'm terrified of losing friends over this." - so you're against discrimination only to the extent that it doesn't negatively impact your life. This is meaningless.

</comment><comment><USER41> who the fuck thinks that this is an appropriate thing to say?! to someone you don't know. in a group setting.

0_o

</comment><comment><USER42> I'm skeptical of the article's claim that an "amazing meal" was had in Japantown.

</comment><comment><USER43> me too

</comment><comment><USER44> My reaction to something nasty like this would've have been to stand up and ask the person to leave and if they don't, just walk away. This is nowhere close to being acceptable. Where does this person work where it's acceptable for employees to say such things?

</comment><comment><USER45> That's quite a bold statement to make to someone, basically equivalent to saying, "you're nothing without your genitals". The proper response isn't "I disagree" or even "fuck you", it's a punch to the face. Seriously, if someone tells you, or your friend that they're worthless, you don't have to argue with them, you can knock them the fuck out.

<comment><USER14> Legally, you can't.

<comment><USER45> Yay! My first downvotes! The law doesn't prevent anyone from doing anything. It simply prescribes a liability. You can educate someone by saying, "your comment is sexist", to which they will save face and complain about your lack of sense of humor, etc. You can also educate them about the consequences of insulting someone with mild violence, which is far more likely to stick with them. Of course, you can't go around beating people up, and I didn't suggest anything of the sort. Mild violence is a common response to insults. A bruised ego goes a long way in social calibration, which this idiot was clearly missing.

<comment><USER46> A punch to the face, in a public setting, to someone that you don't _really_ know is (in America at least) a great way to get arrested and sued. Nothing about that escalated situation would be mild.

It is not the wild west anymore.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> Wow.

That male at the table needs to have his balls removed for such a statement.

He may be male, but he isn't a man. A real man wouldn't behave like that.

Edit: OK, maybe having his balls removed is excessive. He is mocking a womens anatomy and the reverse would make him feel good. i.e saying he got into GDC because of his testicles isn't the same type of insult as the female getting in for her "tits". So this isn't an argument that levels the playing field.

Perhaps he is just a socially awkward human being that doesn't respect women. Someday he will cross the wrong path and insult the wrong women and then I guess Karma kicks in?

Edit 2: Thanks everyone for pointing about that I was indeed going overboard with the removal of anatomy phrase. Overboard from being outraged people still act like this and in front of a table full of people.

<comment><USER48> Please stop, you're over compensating. Yes the person in this story is a dick but being a dick does not mean someone should have their body mutilated, nor does it somehow make them a faux-person. Saying someone isn't a "real man" is just as ridiculous as what the person in the story said.

You're not scoring any magical man points with a comment like this.

<comment><USER47> it isn't my goal to score points though.

Maybe him being a dick in front of people at the table is enough to help change him.

Thanks for your point.</comment></comment></comment>


Get your work recognized: write a brag document - <AUTHOR> https://jvns.ca/blog/brag-documents/ <comment><USER4> For whatever reasons, probably because I don't say 'no' or I'm too arrogant to say 'I don't know', I'm one of those people who always tries to help.

I don't keep a brag document but I do keep a folder called People where there are folders for the people I've helped and subfolders for each problem they've come to me with. On one hand it's useful because I can recycle the code but it also helps track how I've spent my time. I also tried to keep a diary but this was less successful.

I learned the hard way that being helpful is not always recognised, in fact I've had one manager openly hostile to the idea even if that meant the project would fail, it annoyed the hell out of me. (This manager came back from his MBA promoting a Whiplash approach to management and told us to actively 'destroy' the other teams in our company so there you go.) This was part of the reason I moved back to academia, now my job is to help young engineers be the best they can.

<comment><USER5> Could you elaborate on how you planned and executed the transition to academia? Your profile mentions that you lecture in fluid mechanics. Very curious about what skills/knowledge you could take from your engineering experience to your teaching.

<comment><USER4> I'm an aeronautical engineer with a PhD in fluid mechanics, there's not too much else to say on the transition to academia TBH.

Regarding teaching, my exhaustion with an over dependence on PowerPoint for every aspect of communication in industry has me rebuilding an introductory fluid mechanics course in Jupyter with high quality visuals (images and videos) illustrating important concepts along side simple but useful code examples.

<comment><USER6> Is any part of that online in anyway? I just started as a prof and I am looking to do as well at teaching as I can.

<comment><USER4> It will all be available on github by the end of August. I'll post it up here on HN for the craic.

The challenge is that many of the students really don't have the first clue how to really use a computer so getting them to install Python, Scipy and Jupyter is a big ask. They've barely scratched the surface with Matlab, and I've been told that many of them struggle to understand a desktop file system.

Github will render the notebooks and they can copy the URL to Google colab should they wish to interact with the code. And of course there are detailed instructions for installing the required tools (and I'm keeping them to a minimum) on Windows/Mac/Linux for those who have an interest.

The notebooks will also be available as embedded HTML so all the videos, images and interactive 3D models will just work on whatever device they have.

The idea is to present half the course in this new way and the remainder in the old way (PowerPoint with redacted equations the students spend their time carefully copying down and not paying real attention to the discussion). After the first year I'll collate the exam results and student feedback and publish a paper in some teaching and learning journal to share my findings. Hopefully the response is positive, I've put a lot of work into replacing a lot of terse and often abstract PowerPoint with engaging and detailed content, in particular I'm really proud of some of the Blender animations I've made using FLIP fluids to illustrate key concepts such as viscosity and surface tension.

<comment><USER6> Thanks. Sounds interesting. I will keep an eye out.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Consider including screenshots!

A previous job had "monthly" ad hoc desk demos to show off whatever we were working on to our tech lead. Since I can barely remember what I did yesterday if my life depended on it, this became a monthly "crawl p4 history and summarize for myself to summarize for others" routine.

And of course, it's hard to demo when you've just broken your local checkout. Or touched a common header and need an hour to finish recompiling the entire codebase. And waiting around all day being conservative with my changes - <USER2> multiple days, in the event of delays or rescheduling - feels like wasted time.

Slap some screenshots, gifs, or video on an internal wiki and bam - even if you can't demo in realtime because you broke something or are compiling, you can still demo. And now you can share it with coworkers who want to build upon your work, use your tools, etc. as a very easy way to see exactly where you've hidden the new feature in whatever bespoke thing you're doing!

<comment><USER8> Where do you work / what do you that you are using p4?

Video games? Or just a large enterprise org?

<comment><USER9> Pretty sure it is videogames. Last bastion of P4, kind of like dinosaurs.

<comment><USER7> Yep, videogames.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> "This blog post isn't just about being promoted or getting raises though. The ideas here have actually been more useful to me to help me reflect on themes in my work, what's important to me, what I'm learning, and what I'd like to be doing differently."

I just went through and created a brag document for myself. While I'm not sure I'd show it to my manager, it certainly helped my work get recognized _by me_. There are a lot of days where I feel I haven't gotten a lot done, and those tend to overshadow the days I feel productive. Looking back on the past seven months, I was actually shocked to see how much I've accomplished. I'm going to try and keep up with this on a monthly basis, because at the very least it gave my mental health and confidence a little boost.

<comment><USER11> Your manager wants to see this! Do you know what happens if you look good? Your manager gets to look good too. It is in their interest for you to be a stellar employee.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> I had heard similar advice before, so when I started a new job this past spring, I decided to try it out for myself. As I go through the day, I write down what I've accomplished. I closed out a ticket, helped someone fix a bug, went to a meeting, etc.

I pretty quickly noticed two things. First, I personally find this really motivating. For no one other than myself, I want to have a satisfying list at the end of the day. Second, neither I nor my boss are going to find this level of detail useful in a year. You need some way of aggregating (as the article mentions) "the big picture" over time. I've started using an app to help hierarchically aggregate these notes per time period, and it's super useful.

Unfortunately, it's not in a shareable state yet, but maybe one day. :)

<comment><USER13> For

>neither I nor my boss are going to find this level of detail useful in a year.

Actually, if you include copious screenshots, you might find it useful forever! You could just change your text, to make your screenshots talk about whatever you wanted to show. Maybe a UX flow observation or suggested change. Maybe you want to show a UI inconsistency. Or you want to showcase a theme change between two major versions or when changing some front-end component. Regardless of why you originally prepared the screenshots, a picture says a thousand words.

If you want to make your writing perennial, try adding screenshots!

If nothing else it will have historical importance.

<comment><USER12> Multiple good points here! I should have said "useful in a year without context." or something similar. The daily write-ups will always be directly available from the aggregated summaries. But pictures are another great way of providing context! Maybe it's because I'm more of a backend person, but I haven't felt a pressing need to add screenshots at work yet. All of the scenarios you suggested though make it sound like a great idea. Thanks!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I've been doing this at work for the last 4-5 years, and it's been an incredibly valuable exercise. In my case, it's just a simple spreadsheet called "Things Done".

I too have trouble saying "no" when someone asks me to help out, and I decided to keep track of all the things I do that I think add value, but more importantly (along some dimensions), things that the people asking me to help value. I started doing this after I realised that there's lots of stuff that I take for granted, but that other people find incredibly useful because they're simply unfamiliar with the domain or technology in question.

I do have the benefit of some relatively trusted senior leadership though, who help me to summarise and focus this list towards the end of the year so that I don't end up emphasising the wrong things as part of my year-end summary.

</comment><comment><USER15> Linden Lab had (still has?) a similar system called "The Love Machine". Instead of noting what you did, your peers would recognize you by "sending love". There were several ways to do that. One was through IRC where everyone would hang out when I was there (pre-Slack). You could tell the LoveBot, "/love username for fixing that annoying bug" and it would get recorded.

Every quarter, bonuses were paid based on how much love you got. It wasn't much on average if I recall but it was a nice addition to the recognition.

<comment><USER16> That just seems awful. Popular people would get all bonuses. If something was done by someone popular, everyone will be quick to send love to that person. Not so much for shy, always behind his desk guy. Which in turn would make shy person more frustrated that no one is recognizing his work. Where frustration could in the end spiral out of control and make good person, but maybe not popular to be miserable.

<comment><USER17> Yep. In software its common for devs that add features to get all the praise while bug fixes get no love.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> There's a great variant of this if you work remote.

I send my manager a list of all the things I worked on each day, usually 5-10 items with no expectation of reply or action. Usually takes me no more than 3-4 minutes to write.

This gives him visibility into my day and keeps him in the loop without the overhead of scheduling a daily sync or 1:1. You can also use them as input into a brag doc or the like as well.

</comment><comment><USER19> A simple method for recording achievements is to email yourself.

You can forward a "Thank you!" note from a customer, a "Well done!" from a manager or email yourself if you do something you are particularly proud of.

</comment><comment><USER20> My company runs twice-yearly performance reviews. In the quarters where we don't run them, I personally run with my team quarterlies that match well with this concept. "What have you done in the last 3 months" and "What are you most proud of in the last 3-6 months" are probably the most important questions on the list.

This also helps tailor understanding for what the engineers are keen on doing / accomplishing.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Seems like a great idea for almost any field or work, not just programming- related. And even for outside work, just life generally, for nobody but yourself to read (although there's common ground with a CV)--it's not easy to remember everything you achieved last year, or this year even. Would be nice to see that on one page (or a few pages). I'm going to try it.

<comment><USER21> As a homeowner with what seems to be an ever-growing list of projects, I noticed that I would unceremoniously delete them when complete. The projects themselves quickly become part of the background of life, so I realized this deletion was depriving me of the ability to appreciate just how much I do accomplish.

Now I've started moving them to a "done" list, with a date and photos. It's not a panacea, but it feels really good and helps build motivation when I review that list and watch it grow.

<comment><USER22> I might also suggest putting up pictures somewhere that you can use as a conversation piece. I know _I_ like hearing people talk about their DIY projects.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> I think a valid question to ask yourself is: Why do you want to be recognized?

I believe recognition/praise/rewards/etc are not conducive to lasting satisfaction. They feel good for a while, but wear off quickly. OTOH, choosing not to pursue these things is very liberating, and helps you detach your satisfaction from things outside your control.

<comment><USER24> Did you read the article? This is pretty explicitly about performance reviews at your job, either manager or peer based. Most people would want to be recognized so that they can keep their job and possibly get a raise. Maybe you float above us mere mortals and are not victim to such petty things as job stability and wages to support your family. For the rest of us this kind of practical advice could be very helpful.

<comment><USER23> Yes I read the article.

It depends on what you want. Satisfaction and peace of mind, or an endless chase for the next reward/recognition/promotion/raise/etc? If the latter, than it's very important to be effective at getting your work recognized. But if the former, why bother?

<comment><USER24> Most people would bother with this because they are not in the position to quit a $500k/year job and brag about it everywhere. Most people don't subscribe to existential nihilism and need to pay their bills so they can feed their children and afford better living conditions. Surely this career advice applies to them as much as to elitist coastal software engineers. In all the spare time you have not chasing meaningless and temporary satisfaction, maybe try developing some humility and empathy.

<comment><USER23> Obviously money/status matters a lot, but only up to a certain point. Are you able to feed your children right now? Are you paying your bills? If yes, how does getting a raise help with that? You can't feed your children twice. My point is that we sometimes keep chasing these external rewards without knowing how much is enough. It's hard to find lasting satisfaction when nothing is ever enough.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> This is great. I've always found it really hard to remember what I did a month ago, let alone 5 months ago for my bi-annual (if that) perf review. Even worse as a manager. Building more of a habit around this stuff would be awesome. (BTW really recommend James Clear 'Atomic Habits'[0], found it really interesting.)

We're thinking about building something like this for people to track personal growth more easily at Progression [0]. Thinking nice pretty exports, benchmarking, all sorts of other stuff too.

Genuine request, if anyone does this regularly I'd love to speak to you.

[0] [https://jamesclear.com/atomic-habits](https://jamesclear.com/atomic- habits) [1] [https://www.progressionapp.com/solo](https://www.progressionapp.com/solo)

</comment><comment><USER26> In some consulting businesses, managers want similar up to date documents / CV when marketing consultants externally to prospective customers. E.g which projects you've worked on etc.

</comment><comment><USER27> I built a brag doc several years ago while prepping for an interview. I used it to match the list of expected interview questions - it worked like a champ. Highly recommended.

</comment><comment><USER28> This is a good idea. While I've built similar documents by request, I never thought about always keeping one going. Good tip, thank you.

</comment><comment><USER29> I've been digging through resumes in the last few weeks. I'd much rather see one of these brag documents than a boring list of jobs.

</comment><comment><USER30> This is why I started a blog [0] and pushed some repos at GitHub.

0: [https://www.kashifaziz.me](https://www.kashifaziz.me)

<comment><USER6> Friendly advice from fellow Pakistani. Your homepage needs about 10x less words. I looked at it and didn't want to read it at all.

<comment><AUTHOR> That made me curious so I looked... I think the problem's more with the design, the font colours and images, which produce a feeling of sea-sickness. I don't think the amount of text would be unpleasant to read if those things were fixed.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> I am amazed how fast this website loads. Great job!

<comment><USER32> Turns out it happens naturally when you're light on images, don't include gobs of JavaScript, and leave out ads.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> Serious question: how do you avoid "overdoing" it? Or getting to narrow with the scope besides using common sense?

</comment><comment><USER34> This comes off as desperate.

The sad truth is hardly anyone truly cares what you are doing at work. Really, think about how much you truly care what your peers do day-to-day.

Your boss and co-workers care about:

a) results

b) not having to deal with bad/negative/pita personalties

c) avoiding crisis

Pull your weight, be helpful, and if you have a boss micromanaging you it's time to update the resume, not do more work to justify your existence.

<comment><USER35> "This comes off as desperate"

I think this is exactly wrong. This kind of response is what people often fear when it comes to self-promotion. And it certainly may be what you fear (but I'm not you so I can't say for sure), but I can assure you (and others out there) that it is not desperate to look after your interests and make sure the hard work you do - visible and invisible - gets recognized.

What I think you're saying is addressed by the author in her post - that good work will automatically be recognized on its merits alone and that it's desperate to go above and beyond that.

And in many companies this is the case (and has been since work began). But the author's whole point is that it is actually ok - and not desperate - <USER3> make sure your work gets recognized outside the scope of the normal "big projects get visibility" way things often work out.

<comment><USER34> I respectfully disagree. I think good work and humility speak for themselves.

<comment><USER22> This is why companies never spend money on advertising.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> Keep a worklog, preferably on company wiki. Export a backup every so often.

</comment><comment><USER37> Great idea and article!

</comment><comment><USER38> What is described here is just an honest list of "things I did" and has nothing to do with bragging.

It seems that the term "brag document" is only used as clickbait.

Edit: yes the article says it, but the title does not

<comment><AUTHOR> The article says:

 _Where I work we call this a "brag document" but I've heard other names for the same concept like "hype document" or "list of stuff I did" :)._

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> Could make it a daily blog.

</comment><comment><USER40> I've been doing something like this for the past year or so, I just have a Google doc called "Workflow". If I encounter an error or problem I've never seen before, I write the error down, and then the solution (with links if appropriate). Bold the ones I never solved or had to work around. Put eureaka moments in italics (oh THATS how it works!?). It helped me a lot because I would stumble around before that remembering I had this same error or problem a few weeks or months before, but could not remember how I solved it. I'm much more productive and it's cool seeing a list of all the things I've solved. Also, when multiple days go by without and entry you feel really really good.

<comment><USER41> I do this on my blog. That way everyone benefits.

<comment><USER40> With the type of things I put into my work journal I think everyone benefits by me keeping it private!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> This is great advice. It's akin to my manager asking me to write pieces of my own promo packet throughout the year. It'll also be a great time saver during review season.

</comment><comment><USER43> Fix the computer -> my job. Remember that i fixed the computer-> his job.

<comment><USER22> Your manager is a flawed human with lots of reports. If she fails to remember what you accomplished, who's life does it impact?</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Will I be accepted for engineering internships as a 28 yr old undergrad? - <AUTHOR> I'm a military veteran, and I've recently started my undergrad education in computer engineering. I'm really hoping I'll be able to get involved with industry/government internships down the road. Will I be at a disadvantage for my age? <comment><USER2> Just to be safe, don't list your age on your resume. Personally, I've hired interns of various ages but that was in an "age-tolerant" environment.

</comment><comment><USER3> That's actually one of the neat things I discovered when I moved to the States. Its not uncommon to meet a fellow developer that started after servering in the military. I've also met a lot of developers who started out in QA and other positions, so they were older when they got their first developer job. Any reasonable company will see your life experience as a advantage .

</comment><comment><USER4> [US centric opinion]

I don't think it will be an issue in general. In part because of the type of industry I imagine you are referring is probably similar to government where maturity is valued. In part because 28 is only likely to be an age issue to someone really young or in an organization that chews up young people. Mainly it is because internships are academic and blatant employment discrimination is less likely to occur in that context.

Good luck.

</comment><comment><USER5> > industry/government internships

I work at a government lab [0] that regularly has interns that are a bit older than an average undergrad, and vets are preferred. This extends to people the lab employs (a percentage, myself included, are former interns).

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_national_laborat...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_national_laboratories)

</comment><comment><USER6> I doubt it, but I'm not old enough to have encountered agism yet.

If you are willing to try out the Boston area and you like maps or UI/Human Factors, email me so I can introduce you to a contact of mine who commanded medievac helicopters near Basra and is building a startup.

</comment><comment><USER7> I am a 31 year old grad student and I still do internships. I am guessing it should not be such a big deal for you too.

</comment><comment><USER8> No, maturity is an asset</comment>


Startup Founders Should Flip Burgers - <AUTHOR> http://www.bothsidesofthetable.com/2009/10/15/startup-founders-should-flip-burgers/?awesm=grp.vc_BM&utm_campaign=GRP&utm_medium=grp.vc-twitter&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_content=tweetmeme <comment><USER2> If flipping burgers isn't for you, I received a great piece of advice once, take some time and work for a used car dealership for a few months. Point being everyone should learn how to sell, how to be a salesman, you can be the most technical person in the room but without the ability to "sell" people on your product or articulate what makes it worth while, you are missing a key element. And face it, if you can be successful selling used cars (or cars in general, in this economy) you'll have a very practical skillset.

<comment><USER3> I would rather risk being bad at selling and get to keep my soul.

<comment><USER4> Up-voted from oblivion not because I agree, but because it's a common attitude that I held for a long time, but which now drives me nuts.

Maybe my soul leaked away while I wasn't looking, but I've had to spend a lot of time selling in the last year, and the typical hacker contempt for 'marketroids' is way off the mark. It's a deep, deep art that deserves respect.

Can you cut corners, be a douche-bag and rip people off? Sure, but it doesn't work as well as you think, and show me a programmer who hasn't shipped something that has made at least one person's life a misery. All the used-car salesmen in the world have nothing on the Windows OS developers if you want to compare suffering inflicted on the world. I still can't look someone in the eye if I know they spent good money on the F1 '98 game I worked on: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_1_98>

<comment><USER5> Earning and keeping trust is a very major part of sales--at least repeated sales--that I've learned about over the past year or two. Rip someone off and not only are they never coming back, but they're telling a bunch of people (~5) that you are untrustworthy. Big net loss in my book.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I recommend doing political phone banking. You're selling not only a person-- the candidate--but also what he or she represents. If you can sell an idea, pretty much a vessel where people put their hopes, dreams and fears, then you can sell a product that actually exists and will actually fulfill some need.

I typically had to about the end of my first line to judge how the call was going to go. If I was interrupted during that first line, the trick would be to get out of the call without having earned a vote for the opponent. Sometimes, I'd just bounce up against personal armor and the call would be a waste. Sometimes, you'd find a 'fellow traveler,' and the call would be easy and enjoyable, with the only limit of not talking for too long and destroying your efficiency. On the other hand, calls like that do wonders for your morale.

The rare times were when someone was willing to be engaged, but only from one specific approach. Those rare calls, maybe 5% or less, would give you about 30 seconds to guess on the approach. In some cases, it's being ultra-respectful, on the other agreeing to listen for five minutes before getting a commitment.

All in all, political phone banking was one of the more thoughtful job duties I've had, at least in retrospect. Like the other jobs mentioned, it's incredibly wearing with the daily grind of making quota.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I think the key take away of the article is this: Even if you're the "business guy", you should have some technical understanding of what's going on. It's a benefit for actually making strategic internal decisions or simple investor pitches. Sit in on tech discussions, learn the basics, or hell even take some simple CompSci courses at your local community college (basic theory). I know you're strapped for time, but it will be well worth it.

<comment><USER6> Another takeaway, maybe more relevant to the HN audience: if you're a technical founder, you need to get your hands dirty on financial modeling, customer development, and all the other non-tech stuff that "will ultimately owned by functional experts".

<comment><USER7> I credit my mom for making me take all business classes as electives. I wanted to do something like physics but she made a good point that if I wanted to run a business one day, I probably should know what Accounts Receivable means.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> This reminds me of a piece of advice from Brian Fox (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Fox>) which is that anyone who wants freedom should get enough jobs as waiters to be confident that you can do it at need.

The reason is very simple. If you are in a strange place in desperate circumstances, an experienced waiter finds it fairly easy to get a job. And very importantly, you get to eat on your first day in the job. This makes it a very valuable fallback to have.

If you're a waiter in a decent restaurant, the food will also be pretty good. Furthermore once your circumstances improve, it is a job that you can leave easily.

(Note that Brian Fox's circumstances have definitely improved. He had a successful startup back in the mid-90s.)

<comment><USER9> It's interesting that this also seems to have factored into Richard Stallman's philosophy. Since he considered working on closed software unethical, and noted that he could always survive as a waiter, he felt he couldn't justify working on closed software based on the excuse that it was necessary for financial reasons.

<comment><USER8> This is unlikely to be coincidence. Among other things, Brian Fox was the first person ever hired by the FSF.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I know OP used "flipping burgers" as a metaphor, but for my brother and me, it's very real.

We both worked at McDonald's in high school when it was difficult to get a job there and they ran a very tight ship. It was the hardest job either of us every had. We had to do everything: cook, clean, take care of every customer, make sure everything was in place and everything was properly scheduled. We had to smile the whole time, and when everything was done, we had to come back and do it all over again the next day.

We may have complained how hard it was back then, but now we both realize how valuable those work habits would be in every single job either of us has had since. The lessons easily apply to any start-up.

Now if I could only get a hot Big Mac without making it myself.

<comment><USER11> Reminds me of a quote I read from Charlie Munger:

"I get flack for saying [when I visit a college and give a speech], "This is a nice college, but the really great educator is McDonald's." They hate me for saying this and think I'm a slimy creature. But McDonald's hires people with bad work habits, trains them, and teaches them to come to work on time and have good work habits. I think a lot of what goes on there is better than at Harvard."

<comment><USER12> I was at a McDonald's a while ago and they had a job ad that said something like 20% of the entire US workforce had been employed at McDonald's at one time. I found the number very hard to believe, but interesting if true.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I worked at McDonald's. It helped make me the man I am.

Mark, have you also considered advice to burn estates? It is analogous from the under up as your flipping burgers is from the over down.

<comment><USER14> > I worked at McDonald's. It helped make me the man I am

A lot of people say this. How can you be sure you are not just kidding yourself into thinking the time you spent doing something actually quite unproductive was useful?

<comment><USER13> If you were a man of titles and wealth from a family of the same, and you overheard a lean stranger say to a man of some skilled employ to you: "The best servants burned down estate once..." how would that make you feel?

...Especially, if you knew that was true?

Keep feeling; invert class.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> My ex worked at McDonald's and then later was career military. He once indicated they were much the same: In both cases, you have a uniform, photos of the chain of command are on the wall, and they work you like a dog. (Or something along those lines.)

</comment><comment><USER16> You gotta cook the beef & acquire the client so If ur in the restaurant biz it's time flipping burgers and if ur in the product startup space it's time on the phone [works way better than email] Everybody talks about innovative products. Innovative sales & marketing is ignored We have made inroads into accounts like Dell, Yahoo, Walmart & Google and it all started with tracking big guns at these organizations attending conferences, getting their phone numbers from conference organizers, calling up & requesting a meeting at venue – also to mention an innovative pitch. Definitely could not have been done by a sales ace to start with but definitely something we can teach a sales guy to replicate Bottom line – if the founding team does it themselves its easy to build a scalable process</comment>


Ask HN: Phone systems and contact me flow for small businesses - <AUTHOR>

Hey Hacker News,
I am a self-employed/freelance IT consultant and web dev, and while I have a business set up, I'm the only employee and I work out of my house, which I rent with friends.
When I first started I got a second cell phone added to my plan. This was so I would have a business number for clients to call because I didn't want to give out my personal cell phone number to people who might be calling me at any time.
I have been making the second cell phone work, but I'm getting tired of carrying around two phones all of the time, and think that there has to be a better solution out there. To a reasonable extent, money isn't an issue (and I'll save money from dropping the 2nd cell phone)
What I am looking for is a hosted service that will provide a number for my clients to call or text at any time that I can forward to my personal cell (if I want to) or keep as a voicemail box. Ideally, the voicemails would be transcribed to email as well as possible and sent to me, and if the translation wasn't good enough I could dial into my box or listen to them though a smartphone app or website. Basically just whatever options they provide, I'm not too picky. If this number has an online fax component as well, bonus.
I looked into Google Voice, but have stayed away from it because I want a service that has people I can call if there are issues.
What does everyone here use? Am I unrealistic in my expectations?
Thanks! <comment><USER2> I have a side project doing exactly this. My wife and I use it as our home phone, I've also replaced the phone system at my day job with it. Contact me through my HN profile if you want to try it

</comment><comment><USER3> Check out <http://grasshopper.com/>

</comment><comment><USER4> sipgate team is what you are looking for: <http://www.sipgate.com/team></comment>