Google's Airpods competitor do real-time language translation - <AUTHOR> https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/04/googles-airpods-competitor-do-real-time-language-translation/ <comment><USER2> Discussion on Ars Technica article from 3 hours ago (125 comments): [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15402483](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15402483)

</comment><comment><USER3> "They're wired behind the neck but they're every bit a competitor to Apple's AirPods"

Umm, no. The killer feature of AirPods is the form factor and not having an annoying cable connecting the buds. As other posters have noted, Amazon is full of cabled headphones. Language translation is certainly cool, but for most people that's not an everyday need.

<comment><USER4> > The killer feature of AirPods is the form factor and not having an annoying > cable connecting the buds

Ehh, the ability to lose those things really easily is not what I'd call a killer feature. The cabled bluetooth headphones are easy to keep draped over your neck when not in use. Someone actually sells a $10 string that connects the Earpods so they too can have this convenient feature [0].

[0] [http://promo.spigen.com/product/iphone-7-iphone-7-plus- airpo...](http://promo.spigen.com/product/iphone-7-iphone-7-plus-airpods- strap-copy/)

<comment><USER5> Everyone always says this but I feel like it's a non-starter. I haven't ever misplaced my earbuds and I've owned them for several months. House & car keys have a similar form factor and don't have a cable, yet most people don't seem to have problems keeping track of those.

<comment><USER6> Maybe you don't lose your car keys, but there are dozens of products that purport to help you find your lose keys, by attaching various detectors and buzzers to them. I personally never lose my keys unless my wife moves them while I'm looking the other way - I swear that's what's happening.

<comment><USER7> Worth noting that AirPods can be found via Find My iPhone - it'll report last place they were paired and send remote noise to assist in finding

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> > I chatted with a member of the Pixel Buds team following the demonstration > and she confirmed that the demo was done entirely over the internet, without > downloading the languages directly to the device.

This guy is real excited to have all of his conversations stored in the cloud

<comment><USER9> I also think the situations where I'd find useful this kind of translations are when I'm not in my home country which most likely means my data plan does not work or is very expensive, which makes it less useful than it sounds at first.

<comment><USER10> Project Fi does not charge extra for international data use, and it works in 135+ countries.

Many people may not have Fi, which I get, but I get the feeling Google's ideal use case is these headphones paired with a Pixel 2 running on Fi.

<comment><USER11> Same thing applies for anyone using T-Mobile (which is the reason why GoogleFI offers this too). I'm not sure EDGE speeds would be great for this use case though!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Listening to podcasts in mono via a single earbud is my favorite use of the AirPods. So glad they're not wired behind the neck like these Pixel Buds.

<comment><USER13> I've got a great pair of wired-together IEMs (Jaybird X3) but have been considering buying AirPods just so I can listen to podcasts single-ear on my bike ride to work.

Balancing that out is my desire to not get run over, and to save $160.

So what I'm saying is, I'm pretty sure I'll end up with AirPods soon.

<comment><USER14> I occasionally bike with one earbud in with just normal wired earbuds and tuck the other one into my shirt. What am I missing out on with wireless earbuds?

<comment><USER15> Honestly wireless earbuds, specifically the AirPods, have probably been the best purchase I've made in a while and probably my favorite Apple product since my MacBook Air (2013).

The problem is that all the reasons why I feel this way would not have meant much to me while I was still using wired headphones. It feels a bit like retina displays, or my first experience with a sleep mode that actually works (my first, white MacBook): the advantages don't seem all that obvious or amazing right until you're forced to go back to the 'old way'.

I would suggest you first make sure they fit your ears though. I was always confused about people complaining about the EarPods/AirPods falling out of their ears because that never happens to me or most people that I know. Then I actually met one of those mythical people and it became immediately obvious to me how unusable these things are for them (without foam or perhaps some superglue).

<comment><USER13> Just found out that the existing AirPod case doesn't support inductive charging.. I guess I'm waiting till it ships with the inductive case so I don't have to buy another.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Can someone explain? Since everything is done on the cloud what is so special about these buds? Why can't you do the same with a regular headset (which also has a microphone) and Google Assistant running on any Android or iOS device?

<comment><USER17> It is possible NOT everything is done on cloud. It is normal that parts of the model reside on the device itself, for efficiency concerns.

<comment><USER18> From the article, Google already confirmed everything happens in the cloud. The only thing these headphones add is first-party integration with the Google Translate app so that you can launch the app directly from the headphones.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Posting from the other thread here too...

The "translate conversations in real-time" part seems to have nothing to do with the Google Pixel Buds - it's already live in the Google Translate app.

In fact, you can try it right now. Open the Google Translate app on android, put on a pair of headphones with a mic, and tap the audio translation. As you hear spoken word in another language, it'll translate in realtime back to your non-google headphones.

*note - The trick is you need to press the button so it enables translation across both languages, as that seems to be the only way to keep translation on even after the first phrase.

<comment><USER20> Google engineer here. Did you see the demo? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc28VzAFBHw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc28VzAFBHw)

Yes, the Google Translate app has a conversation mode which doesn't require a headset at all. I wouldn't recommend trying to use it with an unsupported headset, though. You won't be able to do push-to-talk, and the audio routing won't work as intended. (The intended UX is that one side of the conversation is routed to the phone, the other to Pixel Buds.)

I wrote about why we decided not to support third party headsets here: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15404918](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15404918)

<comment><USER19> That's cool. I still think the primary issue is the marketing makes it sound like the ear buds are bringing new tech to make this experience possible, when they're really bringing:

a) UX for "hold while talking"

b) Known quality of the headset

From the outside, it looks a bit shady, and a bit un-Googlelike just to compete with Apple.

I imagine a more Google-like approach would've been to release Translate as a local model (eg like [https://developers.google.com/vision/](https://developers.google.com/vision/)). It's easy to imagine the community would quickly figure out a way to solve a) and make the experience work for most headsets.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> I can't wait until I start getting ads for things I talked about.

<comment><USER22> > ads for things I talked about.

Perhaps you'll be getting those "live" as in:

Your friend says: _Let 's go get a drink_ (in some other language)

You hear: _let 's go get a <drink by advertiser>_

...

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> This looks fantastic. Love my Airpods, but the 'tap for Siri' feature so rarely works for me, let alone language translation. Language translation is clearly an area Google is really pioneering too.

Shame about the cable though. The one (surprising) benefit of no cable is that the cable doesn't tug on the earphones, making them less likely to come out.

<comment><USER24> My immediate thought is that the cable will greatly diminish the chance of losing one or both. Never thought about the tugging.

<comment><USER25> Yes, the lack of the cable in my experience means that they are more secure in your ears, not less, as everyone laughed that they would be.

<comment><USER26> They _look_ more silly, though! But I love my Airpods.

<comment><USER23> Give it 10 years and anyone walking around with cables running from their head is going to look plenty silly. If ever there was a look that defined the 2010s...

I think there's an elegance to basically keeping the existing design and just chopping the cables off, even if it is showy. Certainly beats the alternative "black amorphous blob" design of some of the others.

<comment><USER6> Uh, the 1980s are calling for you. That was the decade of the sony walkman, and headphones. Everyone had one. Or a no-name version, like I had.

I have bluetooth headphones and I just get tired of the battery going out. Besides being cool and not looking dated, is there any conceivable reason why removing the headphone jack saves money, makes them last longer on battery, makes it thinner or anything else?

<comment><USER23> Sorry, I was barely around for the 80s ;) I am old enough to have had a knock- off portable CD player though...

> makes it thinner or anything else?

I think it's volume inside the device more than thinness, but I agree I don't think it's a fundamental design constraint. I'm sure they could find the room.

I think it's just that (now/soon) Bluetooth headphones are finally good enough. I have the Airpods, and I have almost no issue with batteries (they recharge while they're in the case, it's only a problem if I listen continuously for a whole evening, but even then they fast recharge in minutes), and they have great range. I'd tried Bluetooth headphones in the past and it was the pairing process that really turned me off, that's a non- issue now too. I would go as far as to say that the Airpods are the best/most game-changing product Apple has put out in maybe a decade. They just need to get a little cheaper, and included as standard (at least for the new top-of- line devices).

For people in the audio industry it sucks, but there are adapters. I don't resent them taking it out any more than I do an ethernet port in my MacBook (ethernet is much better than WiFi, but WiFi is 'good enough' now, and I have an adapter at my desk for when I need it).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Does this require an internet connection? The vast majority of the times I've needed something like this in my life it has either been in very rural places where there is no internet service or in a foreign country where I do not want to pay the exorbitant roaming data fees.

<comment><USER28> I can't speak for these, but I assume they are based on Google Translate, which does offline translation on-device when configured to do so. It needs to download a pre-trained kernel for each language, but once done, it can handle it offline.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> Price is $159, same as air pods. Presentation mirrors an apple keynote. Marketing on page mirrors apple's websites.

I understand competition is a normal part of doing business, but blatant copying really rubs the wrong way.

</comment><comment><USER30> I think you have to still use your phone give it to the person who you are talking with.A phone is the one actually sending the translated voice to the earphone. I don't see what is so different in here.

</comment><comment><USER31> Can you cut the cable between them? Or is it more than just a tether?

</comment><comment><USER32> bragi pro headphones have allowed to do this for a while. also theyre truly wireless :) [https://www.cntraveler.com/story/bragi-dash-pro-earbuds- can-...](https://www.cntraveler.com/story/bragi-dash-pro-earbuds-can- translate-languages-in-real-time)

</comment><comment><USER33> I really think they could have come up with a better name. This whole presentation just felt awkward with headphones jack removal, AirPods clone, portrait mode for photos, Live Photo's clone, AR demos...and on top of that these pixel buds with camera that will be forgotten and abandoned just like most of the stuff google does

</comment><comment><USER34> I'm failing to see what these headphones do with translation, all they seem to do is launch Google Translate app on conversational mode by saying Help me speak... so technically they don't really do anything you can't already do right now, they certainly don't help with fast network connection required

</comment><comment><USER35> Seriously... Pixel Buds? Is that catchier than Babelfish?

</comment><comment><USER36> Sorry, but they're not truly wireless, so they don't compete at all

Also, Android uses SBC for Bluetooth streaming by default; until they fix that (by using AAC), BT audio will sound like shit

<comment><USER37> AAC is supported on Android Oreo.

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> How easy/tough it will be for Apple to allow this?

<comment><USER27> Do they have any way to not allow this? How could they stop it?

<comment><USER39> The original comment might not be from a native english speaker. Presumably, they mean 'How difficult is it for Apple to clone this feature?'

It is likely incredible hard to do well by themselves from now, but there's a chance they could pay Google for an API.

<comment><USER38> Yeah, that's what I meant. Will be more conscious when writing next time</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Singer James Blunt 'prevented World War III' - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11753050

<comment><USER2> I think the BBC meant "Sir Mike Jackson prevented an altercation that risked starting World War III", but what do I know, I'm not a journalist or editor.

</comment><comment><USER3> Rumor has it he started singing down a megaphone in the general direction of the Russians "You're beautiful"... like a siren of the sea the Russians fell under his intoxicating spell as surrendered the air field. Either that or they surrendered to make him stop.

</comment><comment><USER4> It wouldn't have caused World War III no more than conflict in Afghanistan could have... Rusia had no significant allies, and it's not in a position to really enter a war. There is nothing for people in charge to win in this.

</comment><comment><USER5> Apparently, we are in this future where everyone is a world-hero for 15 minutes.

</comment><comment><USER6> This sounds along the lines that The Hoff was responsible for the Berlin Wall coming down...</comment>


The first animated graphic novel - <AUTHOR> http://www.bottom-of-the-ninth.com/ <comment><USER2> If the author knew that it's not the first animated graphic novel he would have perhaps also realize it's rather a bad idea. Photo-comics, animated comics, interactive comics, CGI comics, comics with sounds - all that has been tried already. All these "enhancements" are just gimmicks that don't expand the medium - on the contrary, they narrow it down to a crippled version of something else.

<comment><USER3> Just because nobody's done it right yet doesn't mean it can't be done. I'm surprised to see such a sentiment in these parts.

It wasn't until I read The Watchmen that I had found a graphic novel that couldn't have been done better as a movie or television series. Some art lives in its medium, some defines it. This may be a defining piece.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Well, that's not actually the first... Electric Sheep Comix did this 10 years ago: <http://www.electricsheepcomix.com/>

<comment><USER5> Also the Art of Pho from last year.... pretty similar concept but more interactive <http://artofpho.submarinechannel.com/>

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Very cool - not sure if this is really the first animated graphic novel though. Some different, but similar things have come before. For example: <http://www.cognitocomics.com/operationajax/>

<comment><USER7> Operation Ajax is really fantastic - the fact you can explore around the story (browse through CIA files, photos, etc) really makes it a unique experience.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> While beautifully executed, I fear that once the novelty wears off, such a mixed medium will be absorbed back into traditional animation. Why split the story into different frames if one frame can show it all?

<comment><USER9> Maybe I'm a bit cynical, but to me this doesn't even sound as innovative.

To say it better, I don't think this will enhance the reader's experience, so maybe I see it more as eye candy (a well executed one, no doubt) than something really useful.

<comment><USER10> You could say the same for graphic novels in general. Why have pictures if text can suffice? Also take a look at Andrew Hussie's online graphic novel Homestuck. It features not only animated (in flash), but also interactive segments. These serve to give better representation to the action than simply explaining all the stuff that happens. Then he goes back to posting large blocks of text with only a static image on top, when exposition and clever word-play is in order.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I just watched the trailer and came straight here to gush all over it with everyone else. It's an interesting idea, looks well impemented, has gorgeous artwork and animation. Amazing!

Then I see all the top comments are people pissing all over it. Does no one have a sense of excitement or wonder anymore?

</comment><comment><USER12> Maybe I'm wrong but I would have thought brokensaints.com was one of the first animated graphic novels.

</comment><comment><USER13> At first animated graphic novel sounded like an anime to me. But that concept looks interesting. I am not so sure if it will actually be better. After all, is not an important part of reading a novel, or graphic novel to be immersed in the story and let ones creativity and visualisation flow to make the story a living experience in ones mind? If this supports that, it would be very great! On the other hand if an animated graphic novel would distract from the this, it would be very sad.

I very much like the old touch that it's given and it contrasts great with the new technology.

In the end, if this concept can lure some kids, who'd rather watch an anime than read, to read more. That would be quite an achievement!

<comment><USER14> Graphic novel is actually the "scholarly" term to refer to any kind of comics. You might be thinking of Visual Novels, though, which is a genre mostly prevalent in Japan and thus very similar to Anime and Manga in style.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphic_novel> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_novel>

<comment><USER13> Thanks for clearing that up. I ment to start with animated graphic novel (fixed now). I didn't even know about Visual novels and the exact meaning of the term graphic novel was also new to me.

When I was a kid we used to read Lucky Luke, Asterix and Obelix and Donald Duck. These days it seems that Magas have taken their spot. There's a pretty large bookstore here: Hugendubel, which provided reading corners; similar to a library, except all books are new. You can often find many kids immersed in Mangas.

To me it's like the following: if you animate a manga you end up with an anime. If you animate a comic you end up with animated cartoon.

But the presented product here is still different. It's like a hybrid of both -- or am I mistaken?

<comment><USER15> Manga/anime are essentially just cultural designations; they are referring to comics and animated cartoons (respectively) endemic to Japan. Note that "cartoon" here can refer to a long-form animated movie, as well. There are some things that make manga (especially) unique in contrast with comics published elsewhere, however they are predominately stylistic in nature with a dash of difference in publishing and consumption culture.

I actually disagree somewhat with slowpoke; many (including myself) would argue that the term "graphic novel" refers not just to the broad class of all comic books, but to a narrower format. Graphic Novels typically are self- contained works, and are not collected in a series (contrast this with "trade paperbacks" or "collections" that combine several issues of a comic book series into a larger volume or volumes, released serially). Libraries and bookstores however seem to ignore these distinctions and lump any long-format comic under the "graphic novel" designation. /pedantry

From what I've seen of the product in question here (the landing page + the youtube trailer), I wouldn't really consider it a hybrid; I would consider it a graphic novel that has key animated panels to help display motion and setting. The animations aren't completely necessary in the storytelling, but are an added artistic "flavor" if you will.

<comment><USER14> I actually wouldn't disagree with you on making distinctions. I specifically referred to it as "scholarly" because it's the term that's used to sound more serious. "Comic" sort of carries a negative connotation, it's mostly associated with superhero comics (for comics) or action/comedy aimed at young boys (for manga), and some people don't seem to like this association. So they invented a more serious sounding term so they don't have to call it "comics".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> It looks really cool. I wish, however, that the overall ecosystem was easier to create these things cross platform rather than per-corporation. I don't really want three or four different devices so that I can read works on iPhones, Androids, Kindles, etc. In fact I don't even want a device, I already have a browser running on a screen.

The current ecosystem has the feel of the 1990s, when corporate web sites were walled off behind the AOL domain, although I admit that today's walled gardens are much shinier than AOL ever could have been.

</comment><comment><USER17> This is the most beautiful thing I have seen in a long, long time. Exploiting new technology for newer forms of art, and story telling is super exciting! Definitely going to buy this one.

</comment><comment><USER18> Thank you for sharing this -- I think while some may quibble about the merits of the headline, what excites me is that slowly the next chapter of comic books/sequential art/manga is coming to life. I've been researching "visual novels" which are a genre of games in Japan which aren't animated, but use anime characters and game design that's very much "choose your own adventure".

By the way if anyone is interested in the possibilities one may want to look at the CD-ROM era at two titles: Spaceship Warlock and Just Grandma and Me

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceship_Warlock>

video of Just Grandma and Me <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9uyxPeY3qY>

</comment><comment><USER19> Might be the first - I don't know. But as a lover of graphic novels, to me, this seems to be a great thing.

I wish all the best, good sales and good feedback to the creator. the new media-consuming-devices give us all the ability, to challenge traditional ways of delivering the message. so it really is nice to see new ways of doing things.

when the printing press first arrived, the letters were cut, to look like handwritten letters, just the way, books used to look all the centuries before. with time, the medium book changed, as more people realized, that the medium had changed and delivered new possibilities.

so let's celebrate the people pushing the frontier, trying new things and showing us coherent ways of using the new mediums.

</comment><comment><USER20> So is the whole idea that each strip would be animated clips, and storyline would move in smaller clips?

The artwork definitely has a unique aesthetic to it. The level of detail is amazing.

Products like these, Numberlys, and other Mononbot studio products is showing us how media is going to evolve as the mode of consumption evolves. In my opinion this how you kill hollywood, by providing any talented team of individuals the ability to publish great products and reach millions.

</comment><comment><USER21> I think you could at some levels say that "The Fantastic Flying Books of Mr. Morris Lessmore" was in this medium (if you have not seen, definitely check out - ipad) although it was somewhat of a game hybrid and not paneled.

I honestly think the story looks great and think that a half hour of entertaining reading/art will easily be worth .99c

</comment><comment><USER22> another take on experimental _"storytelling"_ is _"The Mongoliad"_ <http://mongoliad.com> by Neil Stephenson ( _The Diamond Age_ ) and <http://subutai.mn>

</comment><comment><USER23> While it may not be the first animated graphic novel, the baseball animations are amazing. Not awkward or unnatural at all. Very fluid and exciting and so well done that it's not obvious how hard that must have been to get the body movements right.

</comment><comment><USER24> You probably didn't know Byook:

<http://www.byook.com/>

</comment><comment><USER25> If you like this and also like games, try out Imaginary Range on iOS and Android by Square Enix. It's half graphic novel (with animations and transitions, although perhaps not quite like the post) and half game.

</comment><comment><USER26> Readers who viewed this may also like. . .

<http://www.brandongenerator.com>

<http://darkhorse.geekandsundry.com/>

</comment><comment><USER27> The way it should be.

Hope to see many more like these. Reminds me of the Daily Prophet.

</comment><comment><USER28> No one here has used the product, so how can you judge whether it was done right/wrong? Art is never black/white

Via the trailer: Incredible graphics and an intriguing storyline. Can't wait to try it out

</comment><comment><USER29> As a long-time fan of bandes dessinés (Franco-Belgian graphic novel format) this is extremely exciting. This might be the future of the digital form of the medium. I'm pumped.

</comment><comment><USER30> It looks great but I think I'll wait for an Android version.

</comment><comment><USER31> Seems like this would be more expensive than it's worth, but it will probably be the future, like adding 3D to movies or pictures to books.

</comment><comment><USER32> Wondering if each panel has to be tapped to animate, how long to read it all, and what size a Retina download will be.

</comment><comment><USER33> Does not seem to be available on the App Store in Germany. Could you tell me why?

</comment><comment><USER34> That looks brilliant! Can't wait to read it! Truly inspiring work

</comment><comment><USER35> Great work! What other work has the artist done?

<comment><USER36> Ryan Woodward's YouTube page is <http://www.youtube.com/user/RyanWoodwardart>. He designed the official Martha Graham Google doodle <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsbI1GE4DGA>.

He has worked on productions like Space Jam, Powerpuff Girls and Spiderman 3. You can read more about him <http://ryanwoodwardart.com/about-2/>

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> This smells like a hit Kickstarter project!</comment>


Isn't it a good thing for everyone if Google has Monopoly? - user-on1 If Google has Monopoly in more areas like
Real Estate
Construction
Healthcare
Wouldn't those industries be more efficient for end customers? <comment><AUTHOR> No one (except, possibly, the monopolist) is better off when monopolies exist

How well have [effective] monopolies on internet or cable services worked-out for you?

<comment> user-on1 Speaking of monopoly in general may be out of scope of this post. But If Google can attain Monopoy wouldnt it do more good. Alphabet can be making 10x more revenue if they start charging for all the service they provie, but they seem to be happy with making reasonable profit which in their case ended up being huge. The leadership of the organization which attains monopoly is key here.

<comment><AUTHOR> The monopolist, for some time, may "do better" than in a competitive market.

But unless they continue to _act_ as if they're competing, they _will_ stagnate.

Remeber AltaVista? The amazing search engine from DEC? No? Why? Because Google.

Just in the search space, there are many "better" search engines - which is why Google, to continue with this exemplar, is _NOT_ a _search engine company_ .. they are an _advertising company_ which happens to have a good search engine, decent mobile OS, good enough map apps (they do own Waze, after all), great social network, etc

The advantage of the ecosystem Google has is they can be "good enough" in several areas that have _far better_ individual options: but DuckDuckGo, for example, doesn't have a web-based office suite. Or a mobile OS. Or a maps service. Or a browser. Or. Or. Or. Or.

It is the _ecosystem_ that ties people in. (No doubt, Apple, Microsoft, and others have various takes on the whole ecosystem thing, too - I'm just sticking with Google because it's who you singled-out.)

I rarely hit "google" when I "google" \- I find results off DDG, Bing, and Qwant are "better" (and have each as the default search provider in different browsers).

What, inherently, makes you think Google (or any other company) would (or does) "do good"? Companies exist for one purpose - maximizing shareholder value. So long as they don't run [too] afoul of the law, they'll operate in more-or-less whatever manner they can, by-and-large, that accomplishes that end goal.

And who gets to decide your mythic "reasonable profit"? You? Me? "The government"? Some other external organization? Is it 10% net profit? 30%? 50%? 80%? 255%? How is that number decided upon? Why is it _that_ value and not some other value? What happens if "reasonable profit" is defined as 30%, but they happen to make a profit of 40% this quarter/year/etc? Who gets to decide where that "unreasonable" percentage goes?

And sure, you _might_ happen to get a "BDFL" in charge of the company ... _today_. What about _tomorrow_? It's the age-old problem with absolute (or near-absolute) monarchies / dictatorships /etc: you _might_ get a Marcus Aurelius. But you get Nero, too.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER2> There's not much historical evidence I know of that shows monopolies are more efficient or strive harder to benefit their customers.

That's not to say that they don't provide benefits. There are lots of examples of that, but more often they tend to squeeze the most out of their monopoly and ignore looking into providing newer, better, and less costly services.

Consider Sears & Amazon. There's no good reason why Sears didn't evolve into an Amazon like business model except they didn't have the vision or motivation to embrace change.

If you read Theodore Houser's book, "Big Business And Human Values" you'll see how different the company became after they went public (it was employee owned when he ran it).

I suspect that to a significant extent both Google and Amazon are still controlled by those who got them where they are, and this is why they aren't squeezing as much profit out of revenue and instead reinvesting much of it in acquisitions and development.

When or if they ever become entirely owned by investors is when they will start to decay, just like Sears.

</comment><comment><USER3> Google is not a non-profit, they can and will do anything to make a profit. If they have a complete monopoly there's no reason to keep prices competitive, because there is no competition.</comment>


15-Inch MacBook Pro with Touch Bar Has Non-Removable SSD - <AUTHOR> http://www.macrumors.com/2016/11/15/macbook-pro-touch-bar-non-removable-ssd/ <comment><USER2> >90% of Apple customers wouldn't replace their SSD anyways and why should they? In a cloud connected world local storage doesn't matter like it used to.

If you don't like it, don't buy it.

</comment><comment><USER3> At least it is fast. [1]

1345MB/s sequential write

2000MB/s sequential read

And 13 inch model's SSD is replaceable [2]

[1] - [http://wccftech.com/macbook-pro-2016-fastest-stock- ssd/](http://wccftech.com/macbook-pro-2016-fastest-stock-ssd/)

[2] - [http://wccftech.com/macbook-pro-13-inch-ssd-fast- replaceable...](http://wccftech.com/macbook-pro-13-inch-ssd-fast-replaceable/)

</comment><comment><USER4> That's unfortunate.</comment>


Bastions on demand in an AWS VPC - <AUTHOR> https://theconsultingcto.com/posts/bastions-on-demand/ <comment><USER2> Alternately you can inventory your instances in AWS Systems Manager and start an SSH session directly from the AWS CLI itself [1] -- no Bastion servers or SSH key management necessary, pure IAM access only.

[1] [https://docs.aws.amazon.com/systems- manager/latest/userguide...](https://docs.aws.amazon.com/systems- manager/latest/userguide/session-manager-working-with-sessions- start.html#sessions-start-cli)

<comment><USER3> Always glad to see one of our products mentioned :)

Huge shameless plug for the coolness that is Session Manager, I can only think of a few scenarios where you wouldn't just prefer it over the alternatives. If you haven't played with it (or other SSM stuff), you totally should! It's cool and useful and easy and more or less free.

<comment><USER2> It was a total no-brainer once we discovered it. Really nice work.

If you're interested in more feedback, I'd be happy to share. As with many things AWS, there were some undocumented rougher edges that took some trial and error to figure. Although the end result was well worth it. Totally understand if you're not on HN to do that sort of thing, though.

<comment><USER3> Hey, I'm all ears. Just an engineer, but customer feedback is taken super seriously (albeit with a tragically long turnaround time - it's a surprisingly large organization with a lot of irons on a lot of fires). I'll totally pass on anything you have to say though.

e: or put an email in your profile and I'll even reach out!

<comment><USER2> I don't keep an email in my profile but you can find me here: firstname.lastname@example.com

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> You can do this with a VPN as well, no bastion required.

Seems to me that the bastion approach is a bit weird at this point; no node should be directly attached to the public internet (unless you enjoy babysitting one). You usually have an LB in front of it, then perhaps a CDN+WAF (like CloudFlare) in front of that. The same can be done for SSH and even RDP.

The concept that your bastion is 'more secure' than your other systems needs to go away, make _all_ of the systems that secure to begin with if you want to allow human access and shells.

<comment><USER5> Agreed on this. AWS Client VPN is a decent (though admittedly a little more pricey) option: [https://aws.amazon.com/vpn/pricing/](https://aws.amazon.com/vpn/pricing/). But then again you're paying for the managed service.

<comment><USER4> Yeah, the managed part does add to the cost (understandably) but if the half- managed approach of appliances works for you I think OpenVPN-AS is an option as well.

Some people are using wireguard containers on Fargate to do the same thing.

<comment><USER6> Do you happen to have a solid link / reference / GitHub repo for Wireguard on Fargate? That's exactly what I'm looking for!

OpenVPN is a hot mess, but is currently the most supported mechanism across platforms.

Background: I want to give my (100% global remote) development team network access to our AWS dev environment Aurora Postgresql, EFS / NFS, redis, microservices, etc. We already have a local env with docker-compose but need to debug and test in the shared cloud dev environment.

<comment><USER4> Sadly, no. A lot of the available 'nice' containers require host access that isn't available on Fargate. The ones people tend to use on Fargate are pure user-space versions that don't work as well as others. We have evaluated a bunch of finds from blogs and public repositories but they all lack one way or another.

Most of our setups use OpenVPN via OpnSense on AWS, second most popular option is OpenVPN-AS with a paid license, third is AWS OpenVPN, because of the price tag.

A few test setups rely on a small EC2 instance per group (t3.small for example) with a single container and it's a bit quirky to automate, especially on large user groups.

This is our main issue with WG in production so far: while the technology seems totally fine, it's not at a point where you can smoothly roll out a 'service' and get going, there are too many hoops to jump through and too many duct-tape constructions to make it integrate. (somewhat ironic, considering OpenVPN)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> You can do this simply with an ec2 instance and starting it with aws cli as needed .youre only billed while it runs

</comment><comment><USER8> I manage a lot of ec2 instances on dozens of AWS accounts... I can't see a reason to use this particular method... Even if you want to spin up bastion on demand like this, why Fargate, why terraform?

In the simplest form, I'd go with AWS CloudFormation of an EC2 instance. Remove the additional step of an ECS cluster if you don't already have one. An EC2 instance can access cluster VMs, or other VPC objects just as easily. Can it's wrap this in AWS SAM or CloudFormation + a controller like GitLab or Jenkins...

The benefit here is that when you're done, you have an AWS CloudFormation stack to kill... No need for anyone to have teraform installed to find and remove all associated resources.

Of course, this is all if you can't use Systems manager or the CLI to achieve your goals

<comment><USER5> > why Fargate

Because it's easy to throw containers at the problem. Coupled with savings plans this can be pretty cheap.

> why terraform

Because it's easier for most than CloudFormation, and has all the benefits of decomposable stacks just like CF.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I misread the title as "Bostonians demand an AWS VPC". I was very confused on why, and how.

</comment><comment><USER10> I don't currently understand the additional security from bastion hosts. Yes you can have them short lived. But if someone cracks the bastion it's not very good for security.

I think it's better with VPN plus SSM.

</comment><comment><USER11> Arbitrary command execution via IAM is terribly scary to me - which is why I don't use AWS systems manager.

</comment><comment><USER12> Bastions are a bad pattern. They are a way to paper over bad systems of authentication and access control. There are better ways to achieve the same thing, especially with cloud providers.

<comment><USER13> Elaboration is welcome</comment></comment>


Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures of the Yahoo Hack - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@chrismcnab/alexseys-ttps-1204d9050551 <comment><USER2> Hack 1:

> Ran mysqldump against the production database, creating 1.txt

Hack 2:

> Ran mysqldump against the production database, creating 1.txt

Anybody else sees a pattern here? We need to forbid creating files named "1.txt"!

</comment><comment><USER3> You gotta give it to him! The guy is dedicated to say the least.

</comment><comment><USER4> if you are running public facing servers off a vm in your kitchen and also use the host os to access a corporate VPN you're going to have a bad time

<comment><USER5> I wonder how many VM escape bugs are in Parallels.

<comment><USER6> It seemed like he didn't escape but instead cracked the password using ssh.

<comment><USER7> Could someone more knowledgeable here explain this to me? How do you "crack the password using ssh" from a guest VM to the host? That seems to imply that the guest VM and the host were somehow on the same network and the host had a SSH service. Is this the case? And if so is that normal (or the default?) config, that you can network from the guest VM to the host?

Thanks

<comment><USER5> Yes, I think so. No I don't think it is the default.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Alexsey Belan(M4g) seems pretty good at exploiting systems but not so good at staying anonymous.

</comment><comment><USER9> Wow, M4G seems kind of awesome. In a totally bad and not acceptable way, of course.</comment>


Are Desktop Tower PCs Dead? - <AUTHOR> http://www.lockergnome.com/news/2012/06/25/are-desktop-tower-pcs-dead/

<comment><USER2> In another thread I was reading about this, someone observed that IOS (and similar) developers are probably doing most of their actual coding work on laptops or workstations. True, many people don't need desktops, but one might as well ask whether trucks are dead because of the ubiquitous availability of small cars.

</comment><comment><USER3> The author notes that although laptops can do a great deal these days, desktops are still the most flexible when it comes time to upgrade, are usually more powerful than laptops, and can generally be modified more easily. On the other hand, desktops take up a lot of space, more electricity than laptops, and aren't particularly portable.

Seems to me we're moving toward a computing experience in which the portable device and the desktop device will be one and the same; there will be no difference between a "portable" and a "desktop" machine.

</comment><comment><USER4> I like that I can upgrade parts of my tower beyond obsolescence without having to get a whole new machine every few years.

</comment><comment><USER5> NO!

Gamers need ig, high power (electrical as well as compute) systems.

Try running Revit on a even the latest laptops opening a project file 1 GB in size will kill any and every single laptop out there.

Desktops will certainly decline on the consumer end - but will continue in enterprise and business (towers cost less than laptops, are much more serviceable and take a wider range of commodity 3rd party parts that are easy to get)

There will always be a market for tower/desktops because of speed, capacity and latency requirements -- at least for the foreseeable future....

(We have tried to Revit to a VDI in the cloud - but still way too laggy)

</comment><comment><USER6> yep.</comment>


According to NASA, Antarctica is actually gaining ice - <AUTHOR> http://qz.com/538902/according-to-nasa-antarctica-is-actually-gaining-ice/ <comment><USER3> Previous discussion of the NASA release: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10487680](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10487680)

</comment><comment><USER4> Some people appear to believe that if the average temperature of the globe increases by two degrees, then the average temperature in May in Munich must increase by 2.00 degrees, the average temperature in Timbuktu in June must increase by 2.00 degrees, the average temperature in Panjim in July must increase by 2.00 degrees, the average temperature in Valparaiso in August must increase by 2.00 degrees, and so on and so forth.

Then these people are astonished when it doesn't work that way. "Oh! Some places heat up more, others less, or actually don't heat up!" or "Oh! The summers and winters don't change in the same way?"

Depressing.

<comment><USER5> And some people refuse to give in when their theory was just disproven. Really depressing.

<comment><USER5> Why did the narrative change from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change"? Because you can't prove the climate changes. The climate has been changing since the earth was created and it will continue to change. Can someone tell me when Miami will be underwater like you tell me it will be? Give me a date range...something specific. Since it's science and it can be "proven" then someone should be able to tell me that. And if that date comes and goes and it doesn't happen do you promise to back down or will you make up an excuse? Of course you won't back down. You'll just tweak your theories. Until then why take issue with taxing U.S. companies w/ carbon taxes or whatever you're calling it nowadays and focus on the real carbon polluters....China, Latin America?

<comment><USER6> You sound like you haven't ready any of the leading evidence or arguments for climate change at all.

<comment><USER7> What's sad is 60 seconds of googling would point him to a paper answering the exact question he believes cannot be answered: [http://www.pnas.org/content/112/44/13508.full.pdf](http://www.pnas.org/content/112/44/13508.full.pdf)

>Analysis based on previously published relationships linking emissions to warming and warming to rise indicates that unabated carbon emissions up to the year 2100 would commit an eventual global sea-level rise of 4.3–9.9 m

<comment><USER5> I've heard different years and that's why I bring it up....because the "science" has been disagreeing on this point. Does this take into account the emissions deal w/ China? Because that should push that figure out a couple years or decades from that 2100 figure, no? How much? It's science.

Boils down to if you believe the authors are giving an unbiased viewpoint. They receive funding from someone, no? Do those sources benefit from taxing emissions?

<comment><USER7> [https://www.skepticalscience.com/sea-level-rise- predictions....](https://www.skepticalscience.com/sea-level-rise- predictions.htm)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Phil Plait at Bad Astronomy has a good response to this story: [http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2015/11/03/antarcti...](http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2015/11/03/antarctic_ice_still_losing_mass.html)

<comment><USER9> What would it mean if this increase in ice was the beginning of a reversing trend? Similar to how a company loses money for years and then loses less and less and eventually turns a profit.

<comment><USER10> Profit analogy aside, its clear we are pushing the planet into different operating realms. What is unclear is how it will respond. Contextually its called "Global warming" because the planet gets warmer, but the _response_ could be a global glaciation. One of the early papers talked about increasing atmospheric and ocean temperatures leading to massive amounts of snowfall. (more moisture is held by the air and can be carried farther inland before dumping) leading to layers of inland snow that freeze into ice (glaciers).

<comment><USER11> Do you have any links for this? That would be interesting reading.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Really wild guess, but if Antarctica isn't the source of the rising ocean wouldn't it make sense to consider the Arctic as source?

<comment><USER13> Just to be clear: when floating sea ice melts, it does not change the ocean level. Usually land-based Arctic ice is enumerated as Greenland and other glaciers.

<comment><USER14> >Just to be clear: when floating sea ice melts, it does not change the ocean level.

Unless you consider thermal expansion due to albedo change. Sea ice is one of the whitest surfaces on the planet, and open water one of the darkest.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> There is another article claiming that ice albedo changes in Greenland are caused by camera degradation over time:

[http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2015GL065912/full](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2015GL065912/full)

[http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/10/151030220525.ht...](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/10/151030220525.htm)

<comment><USER16> This one isn't based on albedo though - it's grace2 data - gravimetric - <USER2> the paper is rigorous, even compensating for the minuscule crustal movement due to ice mass shifts.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Ah, phew. Let's start polluting again and de-vest in clean energies.

<comment><USER18> Na, know you are making a point here but let me jump off and make another point:

If you want to brimg the Fox News audience along to reach the goal try talking about conserving oil instead of talking about climate change.

A lot of people are deeply sceptical about agw without being neither stupid, paid by big oil nor wanting to destroy this planet. Some of us like me even want to stop using oil faster, -we just think this whole agw thing stinks fish when we see politicians arriving in private jet planes to climate conferences.

So again stop trying to sell agw to the fox news crowd and try sell conserve oil (for future generations or to be less dependent on the Saudis or whatever .)

(Full disclosure : I work in renewable energy now and has worked in recycling earlier and at some point I worked with communication and radar for oil and gas companies, helping them to save tons of fuel although imo that doesn't matter as it just meant more fuel to sell )

<comment><USER19> >> If you want to brimg the Fox News audience along

>> to the fox news crowd

Are you suggesting the Fox news audience are a generalized group of people who care nothing about the planet or the future?

<comment><USER11> I'll take the bait. Even if that were what he was suggesting, it wouldn't necessarily be wrong.

Fox News is as politically biased as the worst of left-wing media. Part of its bias is that "global warming remediation is bad for business". Emphasizing the continued use of cheap fossil fuels over continued funding for renewable energy R&D is a short-term strategy; it absolutely requires caring more about the now than about the future.

There are probably lots of people with similar beliefs who don't watch Fox News, and there are probably lots of Fox News viewers who don't share all the same beliefs, but as a generalization, it's no more wrong than any of the statements you see these days that includes the word "liberals".

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Let's be clear: mainstream client change deniers are not "scientific skeptics." They are resistant to implement policies that upset the their monetary interests. If we examine the intersection between people who be deny evolution and people who deny anthropogenic climate change, this becomes clear. There is room for skepticism regarding the details and appropriate responses to climate change. There is no room for wholesale denial.

</comment><comment><USER21> I can already see how this will play out on Fox News.

<comment><USER5> And I can see how it will play on CNN and MSNBC....with virtually no coverage. Bias plays both ways.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Bet ya this is some climate change science the right-wingers won't be denying.</comment>


Post Flat Design - <AUTHOR> http://blog.collectiveray.com/post/82108622609/post-flat <comment><USER2> I said this very clearly before and was downvoted into oblivion, but I think it needs to be said:

This article advocates for some balance between flat design and skeumorphism. Granted, the article is written decently well, but it does not go into _any_ detailed analysis as to where that balance should lie.

It simply states: Hierarchy should use composition and color. Cool -- basic design principle, check. Beautiful, readable typography? Yes -- sure. Strong emphasis on content, not ornamentation. OK. I've read this 1000x times already. What is new? Where are the analyses or case studies to support the principles?

We need to start talking about where the balance lies and why it lies there. Different interactions will require different balances to find optimality.

<comment><USER3> > _it does not go into_ any _detailed analysis as to where that balance should > lie_

That's very much part of the point. From the article:

 _Without strict visual requirements associated with flat design, post flat offers designers tons of variety to explore new aesthetics – informed by the best qualities of skeuomorphic and flat design._

<comment><USER4> Well then this is just post-modernism applied to flat design. An amorphous ball of nothing that has no rules so do whatever you want. Want drop shadows in two directions, cool, cause we can do whatever we want now!

I'm not buying it. Post-modernism has been exposed as a joke by fake academic paper generators. Design loosed from it's moors is called experimentation, not post-flat, or whatever's cool right. Please, experiment, just don't claim you've re-invented magic.

<comment><USER3> I thought of it as being more akin to the programming mantra of "use the right tool for the job."

The part about the pendulum swinging back to some degree seems like a reasonable progression from flat design.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> The iOS keyboard is not the best example of flat design.

It always bothered me that it does not follow the usual convention of displaying the letters in lower case when the shift/caps lock is not turned on.

<comment><USER6> I also don't like that it's harder to tell if shift is on or off, now. Pre iOS 7, at least it went blue. Now it goes from black on white to white on gray, I still couldn't tell ya which is which. The case of the keycaps changing with the state of shift would fix that, too.

<comment><USER7> Couldn't agree with this more. I still don't get it and have to toggle it on/off a few times before I remember.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> DL;DR: the current 'flat design' fad is a reaction to skeuomorphism overuse and abuse. Flat design isn't really the solution either, since close adherence can hinder intuitiveness. Therefore, a compromise the author calls "post flat design" is a fusion between the two styles with a focus on content and intuitiveness rather than implementation.

Personally, I don't know if "post flat design" is _the_ solution, but I'm sick of flat design. I prefer skeuomorphism, but agree with the author that it has been overdone: I don't need a photo-realistic leather binder for my note- taking app, for instance.

</comment><comment><USER7> I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that design, like fashion or any other type of art can't be rationalized or justified using scientific like processes.

What "looks right" today looks out-dated and clunky tomorrow. There usually isn't any logic behind it, only changing tastes.

Flat looks/ed good because we were so entrenched in a skeuomorphic world and were sick of it. Just like wearing baggy jeans with teens morphed into skinny jeans, or grunge music supplanting glam-rock, tastes of humans change over time and no matter how hard you try to break it down and analyze why one art replaced another, there isn't usually an answer to be found.

Extreme flat design has brought about horrible interfaces (see iOS7) yet it has also brought wonderful innovations due to it's tendency to break free of the physical world.

Were gradients and company names without vowels of the Web 2.0 era superior to the ones prior? No, but it felt right because of where we had come from. I suspect that trend will continue forever.

There wont' ever be a "final" design aesthetic that we all agree is the best, and art will never reach some sort of pinnacle that will never be surpassed.

Make your own art, don't worry about what is trending ... you might find yourself on the "right" side of design if you focus on making your art the best it can be.

<comment><USER9> I would disagree. I think good design is timeless. It's why eras where design was preeminent like "art-deco" and "Hellenic Greece" still resonate so strongly with audiences today.

I think design aspires to a Platonic ideal of simplicity, function and form, but that the fashions of the time influence how that aspiration is expressed.

It's why Steve Jobs and his vision were so successful in my opinion, paring the complexity of modern consumer electronics and attendant functionality back to what a user actually wants and needs from a device. If you disagree, I'd be interested to hear why (re: simplicity, not so much Steve Jobs) as I use external opinions to shape and refine my own.

<comment><USER7> "good design is timeless"

Then why does design move on, evolve or change about-face? Also how do you know that your design is good, and will stand the test of time? I think what you're witnessing is design that still appeals to your modern tastes. This I attribute more to luck than some superior logic.

"design aspires to a Platonic ideal of simplicity, function and form"

If you believe that than you're throwing out an entire category of design that isn't simple. Some design is incredibly complex ..even messy yet at the time it's considered beautiful and rich because it reflects and invokes human emotions of the time.

Simplicity can stand the test of time because it lacks elements that we associate with the time which can fall out of taste. That doesn't make it better, it just makes it ... simple.

The best design reflects the current tastes of your audience, it does not need to be timeless or even make sense to future generations. Good design evokes an emotional response and that response is dictated by many factors which take into account context.

<comment><USER10> Trends and fads move on, but great design is timeless. Great design solves a problem completely.

The Eames Lounge Chair was designed in 1956. At no point since then has it looked dated. And it never will. It's timeless (and comfortable as well). [http://www.hermanmiller.com/products/seating/lounge- seating/...](http://www.hermanmiller.com/products/seating/lounge- seating/eames-lounge-chair-and-ottoman.html)

Its difficult to make timeless work with software because the capabilities and mediums change so rapidly. But we'll get there eventually.

<comment><USER11> As great as the Eames Lounge Chair is, I think it looks like it was created in the 1950s. A better example of a timeless piece of design would be the Barcelona Chair, which predates even the Eames Chair. It still looks modern, nearly a century after it was created.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barcelona_chair](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barcelona_chair)

<comment><USER12> Add Le Corbusier's LC2 (to the eames and barcelona chair) and and you have a few timeless designs, all from mid-century.

[http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41a30HNuKeL.jpg](http://ecx.images- amazon.com/images/I/41a30HNuKeL.jpg)

To the people discounting timeless design: yes most of contemporary industrial design is disposable, but some pieces from Braun and Apple will be considered classics.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Designers have been using animations to signal affordances in buttons and actionable elements. Drop shadows are still effective in doing this. Every design trend has been a reaction to the previous one. As interaction designers, we should always be thinking about the end user.

</comment><comment><USER14> The conclusion is a total let down.

"Dust off your drop shadows and gradients, and introduce them to your flat color buttons and icons. Do your absolute best work without feeling restricted to a single aesthetic."

I feel like the author is admitting that they are completely constrained by the rules or whims of trend- and that breaking out of them is some kind of crazy paradigm shift- and that breaking them only involves mixing in the tired tropes of the last fashion into the tired tropes of the new one.

My experience is that its only the non-designers that feel constrained by fashion. The professionals push the boundaries - they are the ones that define it.

</comment><comment><USER15> > Can you tell which Shift key is enabled?

I've been on iOS7 since release, and I still can't tell when caps-lock is enabled :(

</comment><comment><USER16> Maybe we'll get a retro look. Say, the X windowing system in the 90ies... like Motif:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Plan_Open_Motif_screensho...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Plan_Open_Motif_screenshot.png)

[http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/images/qmotifstyle.png](http://qt- project.org/doc/qt-4.8/images/qmotifstyle.png)

<comment><USER17> Hell, why use GUIs at all anymore? A tired fad if I've ever seen one.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Well it looks pretty...

But in terms of the web... if you can't create it with CSS3, its not worth it IMO. All those extra little shadows and light reflections... yeaaa. No thanks.

More designers should learn CSS and build out little things like this themselves so they can see how far they can take it without using an image.

</comment><comment><USER19> Your username -> twitter profile links on the blog page are borked. :(

<comment><AUTHOR> thanks, fixed

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> So...flat design with shadows? OK.

Everyone just wants to start a trend, don't they?</comment>


MVP: feedback request for WordPress platform startup - <AUTHOR> https://sublimewp.com/ <comment><AUTHOR> I'm a one man startup with a few remote collaborators trying to make a dent in the high-performance WordPress platform space which at the moment is highly dominated by WPEngine (whose homepage we ripped off as we believe it's a great starting point!)

Our value proposition is mainly: "We provide fast WP managed hosting at a reasonable price".

Our main selling points over the competition is support for PHP7 (which we are very proud of), fast SSD disks, out of the box VARNISH setup which can be easily customized via the Control Panel or disabled altogether, plus good price point hopefully.

The website and control panel are w.i.p and there are a few notable features missing (out of the box CDN support and SSL one-click setup) but before I get into development I thought it might be a good thing to try and experiment in user acquisition... this is where theory meets reality!

Any comment, suggestions or advice from fellow startuppers is super welcome!

Thanks, Michele

</comment><comment><USER2> My initial feedback on the website is nothing tells me you are a hosting company. I thought it was a WordPress plugin.

My second reaction was "what makes this different from WPEngine, flywheel, or any other?". Your value prop is fine, but no different from anyone else. Are you fastER? CheapER? Is your support better?

<comment><AUTHOR> Hi coreymaass, thanks for your reply. I think you are right, although the title says "SSD Hosting Solution" no one really see web page titles nowadays. Also although the first description says "Achieve more with SublimeWP, the world's first PHP7/SSD WordPress hosting provider", the word hosting is not present in any title, I've fixed that now.

With regard to the value differentiating factor the first one is that no other major WP hosting is providing PHP7 nor SSD disks. We provide both.

Secondly if you look at what you get for your money you will see that for the same amount you get more disk space, more bandwith, more reinstallations, etc. than WPEngine, FlyWheel and most other companies. We also don't charge you extra for SSL usage/setup and website migration.

Which, I hope, for someone going around window shopping for a WP host would be quite clear.

Two major things that we provide however is not sufficiently clear there, one is the super powerful Varnish page caching we provide and secondly the VPS- centered architecture and all its benefits as described here:

[https://sublimewp.com/blog/why-sublimewp-vps-centered- archit...](https://sublimewp.com/blog/why-sublimewp-vps-centered-architecture- rocks/)

If you read the article I'd love to know what you think of it.

<comment><USER2> What you list are features, not benefits. Eventually everyone will have SSD drives, if they don't already. Eventually everyone will upgrade to PHP 7. But for now, "The world's first php7/ssd wp hosting" is a lot more clear of a headline. Maybe move it above the fold?

Built-in caching might be a good differentiator, if you can prove that it makes your sites faster than WPE and everyone else.

<comment><AUTHOR> It looks already more promising with the title above the fold. Also I've added a stronger call to action to start the 30 days free trial account which other customers didn't even realize it existed before. I have to say speaking with potential customers in the last couple of days that nobody really seem to be interested in PHP7 that much despite its huge performance improvements. I have even setup google alert to catch news about PHP7 and I have the feeling that people just aren't talking about it as much as we expected.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Trustworthy resource for choosing the right stack for a given project? - <AUTHOR> I'm not a full time developer (I run a small tech-oriented non-profit while doing most of our coding). I don't have time to keep track of the state of the art regarding languages, tools and frameworks. Googling often shows me reviews and discussions that are already 5 or more years old. I don't need super nuanced details, I just need to know I'm not investing time in learning / implementing something that's not being supported any more or has been superseded by something better and easier.
Is there a site I can go to get context for any given tool, or a recommendation for what tool to use for a certain job given certain considerations? It would be great to have one place to go in all of these situations that I know I can trust to be current and accurate.
Thank you for any help! <comment><USER2> You can take a look in stackshare.io and see what others are using. You will probably want to look at small companies, not Twitter or GitHub.</comment>


Turn Your Body Into Your I/O with Skinput  - <AUTHOR> http://singularityhub.com/2010/03/04/turn-your-body-into-your-io-with-skinput-video/

<comment><USER2> The killer device, for me, will be the one which allows me to respond to a tweet while I'm walking or doing something else, without having to interrupt my attention or look at some input device.

Is anyone researching that?

<comment><USER3> Probably you want a chord wearable keyboard like this: <http://www.handykey.com/>

(needs some training to type).

<comment><USER2> Their order form doesn't work. How much does it cost? Can it be plugged into a smart phone? (I guess not iPhone, but maybe Android?)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Why not map stimulation sequences to single-hand gestures and stop all that peculiar self-tapping? A resolution issue?</comment>


The Itsy-Bitsy, Teenie-Weenie, Very Litigious Bikini - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/20/business/kiini-bikini-lawsuit-ipek-irgit-solange-ferrarini.html <comment><USER3> This is more common than you might think. A company once sent me a demand that I stop distributing my game Empire as I'd copied it from them.

Turns out I had a registered copyright for it that preceded their company by about 10 years.

Some people are just shameless.

<comment><USER4> Could you expand on this registered copyright thing? Which country? I'm aware of registered trademarks, but I've never heard of registered copyright - <USER2> the kind that automatically exists as soon as you create a work.

<comment><USER5> In the US, you can officially register your copyright by filling out a form, paying a small fee, and supplying a copy for archiving in the Library of Congress. It makes defense of your copyright much easier.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Very disappointing. Irgit shouldn't have won a single suit: fashion design is not copyrightable. Courts overreached here, especially as Irgit purchased this design and did not make it herself.

<comment><USER7> The bikini style is probably unique enough that it could be considered "trade dress", which is protected by IP law: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_dress](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_dress)

The article mentions trade dress being an aspect of their lawsuit against Neiman Marcus and some other companies.

<comment><USER8> Trade dress was the basis for (one of the?) Apple/Samsung disputes, with Apple making the argument that the distinctive shape of the early iPhone should not be copied: [https://revisionlegal.com/trademarks/lessons-trademarking- tr...](https://revisionlegal.com/trademarks/lessons-trademarking-trade-dress- apple-vs-samsung/)

<comment><USER9> Ah yes, the distinctive, never seen before, rounded corner rectangle. A marvel of ingenuity, creativity, and geometric composition.

<comment><USER10> Intellectual property isn't always about something never seen before, ever, in any application, but about something never seen before in that application. Wipers were famously pateted twice, for ships and for cars. I could see an argument that applying the rounded corner rectange to smartphones is novel so it deserves protection.

<comment><USER11> > Wipers were famously pateted twice, for ships and for cars

And this doesn't strike you as ridiculous?

I understand we want to protect the little man inventor from staying poor as big companies get rich off of their ideas, but something like wipers being a patented concept on each different vehicle is not a function of this need.

<comment><USER10> No, we want to encourage people to take good solutions from a domain and to do the work to validate they're good for other domains too. That's non trivial work that needs to be rewarded for it to occur at scale.

BTW, the current state of the art in ship windshield wiping does not look like a car wiper at all.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear_view_screen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear_view_screen)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> What a fascinating read. Especially Ferrarini'a comment at the end. I hope she get a lot more royalties than what the article is saying.

<comment><USER13> Not to diminish the sentiment (I agree, she should get a lot more) but the amount she's receiving now might exceed anything she's ever earned before in Brazil walking the beaches, so it's not a sad story yet, I think.

From worldcrunch: "According to the Brazilian daily Estadao, a worker on the bottom end of Brazil's pay scale earns roughly $77.40 per month, meaning it would take him or her three years and three months to earn what an average person at the top end of the spectrum makes in just one month: $3,019."

<comment><USER14> That's still borderline theft. She got robbed before and now other robbers gave her a pittance.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Does anyone know more about the etymology of the closing quote " _I want her to get screwed in green and yellow_ "?

I assume this has something to do with those being the colors of the Brazilian flag, but when I googled all I found was this figurative translation: [https://www.kwintessential.co.uk/blog/learn-a- language/idiom...](https://www.kwintessential.co.uk/blog/learn-a- language/idioms-across-europe-25-different-uses-colour-yellow)

<comment><USER16> Brazilians have terms that make no sense at all even in our own language. Things like greeting someone with "beleza?"(Beauty?) and the other end replying with "Jóia" (jewel). Other things include "pretending to be armless John" and "pull your small horse out of the rain".

Most of them have some obscure meaning that is unknown to most people nowadays.

<comment><USER17> This is strange. I was curious about the meaning of "pretending to be armless John" so I googled it.

There is only result for the use of that phrase:

Your post.

So what's your fun example situation for us of someone "pretending to be armless John"?

[https://www.google.com/search?q=%E2%80%9Cpretending+to+be+ar...](https://www.google.com/search?q=%E2%80%9Cpretending+to+be+armless+John%E2%80%9D&oq=%E2%80%9Cpretending+to+be+armless+John%E2%80%9D&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)

<comment><USER18> Act as someone who does not understand a situation in order to not do something or not face the consequences.

An explanation I read is a reference to mutilated men being dismissed from going to war

[https://www.dicionariopopular.com/dar-uma-de-joao-sem- braco/](https://www.dicionariopopular.com/dar-uma-de-joao-sem-braco/)

( A Google translator might help)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> _" In May, in exchange for using her crochet-and-elastic design and her name, PilyQ paid Ms. Ferrarini the equivalent of about $5,100. (In January 2019, she'll get an annual fee of about $7,700.) Neiman Marcus and other major retailers now sell a suit under the name "Platinum Inspired by Solange Ferrarini" for about $170."_

Everyone is screwing everyone.

</comment><comment><USER20> Apple bullied me at some point [https://blog.amahi.org/2011/06/21/apple-hits- amahi-with-a-ce...](https://blog.amahi.org/2011/06/21/apple-hits-amahi-with-a- cease-and-desist-wait-what/)

<comment><USER21> The term "App Store" wasn't a thing until Marc Benioff creates it, abandoning the mark to Apple in 2008 when he and Steve Jobs discusses it (Benioff gave App Store to Apple and Salesforce used the more enterprise-sounding AppExchange.) The only reason that phrase became "generic" is because Apple made it into a household name. It wasn't like people were using App Store in conversation until Apple's App Store became a thing. Claiming it's generic is a weak argument because that term as a description of a store used to sell computer programs didn't happen until Benioff and Apple. You didn't get "bullied": you were using a phrase that had a valid trademark issued, knowing good and well that it was an Apple trademark. And, at the time of the trademark filing, it was anything but generic. It wasn't like the term "Coffee Shop" which has been in common use for a very long time. App Store has a very specific meaning: it referred to Apple's App Store, that others have attempted to use it doesn't make it less novel. It was novel at the time of filing. It would be like trying to challenge the copyright on Kleenex or Chlorox: names that are in very common use, but common use arguments don't work retroactively, which is what you seemed to have been arguing: "App Store is in common use so I should be able to use it." It came into common use after Apple trademarked it, that doesn't weaken the original filing. You could have used Application Shop, App Shop, App Emporium — a myriad of options. Instead, you specifically wanted Apple's mark because Apple had done the work to legitimize the term so you wouldn't have had to. You weren't bullied: the trademark is valid and you infringed it. That it's being challenged now is of no consequence— the mark is still, at present, valid.

<comment><USER22> Could he had, in your opinion, used "Application Store"?

<comment><USER23> I think so. App sounds like an abbreviation for Apple but Application does not.

<comment><USER22> I'm not sure it's a very good idea to start self-censoring word usage based on whether they sound like a prefix of a large company.

<comment><USER23> In this case it's Apple censoring you.

<comment><USER22> I would argue that it is the law censoring me, on behalf of Apple. I think the law is wrong and unjust in this case, though.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> A sad tale of hypocrisy and the little guy losing. It would be less upsetting if Igrit wasn't so sue happy herself

</comment><comment><USER25> Just the other day on HN was the thread on "Why Aren't Rich People Happy With the Money They Have?"[0]

You would think $9M would make her more content with life. But sadly as humans we seem to always want more. I often wonder whether it is easy to judge because I don't have that money and those problems. Either way her greed was her undoing. She could have happily continued making a decent amount of money from the bikinis even with competitors selling similar wares.

[0][https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/12/rich- peop...](https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/12/rich-people-happy- money/577231/)

<comment><USER26> Oh for sure, people will keep comparing themselves to others. 9M is still not "fuck you" money, it'll buy you a Lamborghini but not a classic car collection and the means to store, maintain and secure it. For example.

<comment><USER27> Please. $9M is very very much deep in the fuck you money territory.

<comment><USER28> well i guess the point the parent commenter was making is that it's middle class fuck you money. once you enter the rarefied space of say, new york's upper west side it's probably chump change

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Using the brand is wrong but making a similar product? Isn't what she did in the first place?

<comment><USER30> Right.

Appropriates a handmade native Brazilian bikini, has it made in China and makes $9MM.

Sues others for making similar designs.

<comment><USER31> This is essentially the story of Supreme.

<comment><USER32> Does supreme sue people for anything besides using their logo??

<comment><USER33> Even their logo makes no sense as a trade mark.

Supreme is a common noun, and uses one of the most common typefaces, Helvetica, on a solid red background. There's no unique aspect to their logo at all.

Maybe I should start a company named The. Start suing any product line prefixed with "The"

<comment><USER34> >Supreme is a common noun, and uses one of the most common typefaces, Helvetica, on a solid red background.

It's an italic version of (or very similar to) "Futura bold oblique" and it was used in white on a red background by the artist Barbara Kruger as (massive irony here) a critique of consumerism. Supreme then took that influence to create their logo.

<comment><USER35> And Barbara Kruger is getting nothing for this?

<comment><USER23> Seems that way.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> History repeats itself. As Fortnite currently getting sued for infringing upon dance moves The Carleton, The Floss, etc.

<comment><USER37> And I've seen the Carlton in a couple of games much before Fornite was a thing.

<comment><USER38> I think the important difference might be that Fortnite is making money off of them. Not necessarily agreeing with the lawsuits but that may be one reason why Fortnite is being sued but not the others.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> What happens it you get bullied by someone into settling a suit and it later turns out to be baseless? Seems like real life poker.

</comment><comment><USER40> This is Skechers' entire business model

</comment><comment><USER41> or as the saying goes - he who screams the loudest.</comment>


A Look Inside the Offices of 'The Onion' - <AUTHOR> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/07/AR2008110701942_pf.html <comment><USER2> Was hoping for pics too =/</comment>


Symantec API exposed certificates, private keys - <AUTHOR> https://www.facebook.com/cbyrneiv/posts/10155129935452436 <comment><AUTHOR> The text:

Looks like I don't have to stay quiet about this one anymore...

I found out about this problem... and others related to it... back in early 2015. I warned Symantec about it, and worked through some of the issues with them.

At the end of it, they asked for a chance to fix it... and we both agreed it would take up to two years to fix, without creating more chaos and causing more damage... and I said yes.

I agreed to limited non-disclosure of the issue, unless I felt it was critically necessary, or it would be unethical or irresponsible for me not to disclose (for example, if there were a threat to national security, or I discovered a compromise of a client, or any actual criminal compromise arising from it, etc... etc...).

That said, I informed Krebs and a few others about what I had found... and also that I agreed to let them fix it, because it would be less damaging to the world, than exposure would be.

It was one of those issues where there's no GOOD choice... but I looked at the damage immediate exposure would cause, vs. a slowly rolling fix over two years...

I talked to some of my friends on the grey and black sides of things, and did my own checking, to see if there was any chatter about this anywhere, and I couldn't find any... and I concluded that more harm would be done if I disclosed.

Fellow security professional Bobby Kuzma helped me investigate and validate these issues, and he can verify what I state here.

I checked a few months later, and they HAD fixed several of the core problems... though not all of them... So I waited, and so did those who I had informed about the problem, and had verified it for themselves...

Unfortunately, late in 2015, my cancer recurred, and spread to my lymph nodes... and I've been fighting it ever since, so I haven't kept up with the issue.

So... Here's what the post doesn't mention...

If you purchased a Symantec certificate (or a cert from any of their associated subsidiaries and partners) through a third party, from at least as far back as early 2013 until recently; their third party delivery API allowed those certificates... including private keys... to be retrieved without proper authentication, or in some cases any authentication at all. Unless the third party added proper security around it, all you had to do was click a link sent in email, and you could retrieve a cert, revoke a cert, and re-issue a cert.

Further, even with first party purchase, for some time in some web interfaces, it was possible for properly authenticated users to edit a URL, and retrieve the certs (including private keys) of other authenticated users.

When I agreed not to disclose the problem until it was fixed or otherwise publicly disclosed, Symantec commited to finding and replacing all of the certificates which MAY have been impacted, and then replace them... that they would do so within six months for every cert they could identify, and within two years for every cert period.

Given Googles experience and actions here, it appears that Symantec did not fix these issues as they committed to. They revoked and reissued many thousands of certs, but nowhere near all of them. Further, though the interfaces I knew about were fixed, they apparently did not fix their core API issues, and thus this critical issue remained... and may still remain... I haven't attempted to verify again recently... and third party purchased symantec certs may still be subject to compromise in this manner.

So, at this point, I will publicly disclose what I know about the issue, and release anyone I shared the details of the issue with to do so as well.

My STRONG recommendation, is that anyone who purchased a Symantec certificate from a third party, revoke that cert and have it re-issued... either directly by Symantec, or simply revoking and having another trusted CA issue a different cert... as soon as they are able to do so.

As to first party certificates... I don't know and have not been able to validate how extensive the exposure was, through which interfaces, etc... I do know that they fixed the specific issues that I found in the specific interfacecs I was able to validate, within six months as they agreed to. That said... It would be safer to revoke and re-issue, given the problems that Google themselves identified.

As to end users... I would be extremely wary of any site with a symantec cert issued before late 2016, and take some extra caution regarding any symantec cert period.</comment>


Show HN: InHouse – An App for Housemates - <AUTHOR> https://inhouseapp.io/ <comment><AUTHOR> We've build an app to help housemates deal with the myriad of problems that come along with sharing a house together.

We're pretty early stage but have an iOS and Android app on the respective stores. I'd love to get your feedback - is this something you'd use? What problems are we overlooking?

Feel free to play around with app, we'd be very grateful for some constructive feedback as we'd like to iterate for a wider launch in a couple of months.

Thanks, inHouse Team :)

shortcut links: iOS: [https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/inhouse/id1488409238?mt=8](https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/inhouse/id1488409238?mt=8) Android: [https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.inhouseapp....](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.inhouseapp.inhouse&hl=en_GB)</comment>


The Reality of Reuse (2018) - <AUTHOR> http://www.bennorthrop.com/Essays/2018/the-reality-of-reuse.php <comment><USER2> Things get really interesting when a team in your organization decides to take out this module 'C' and open source it. Now suddenly updates to this module need to balance both the company incentives and those of the open source community. Things can get really expensive quickly.

<comment><USER3> Yeah that is hairy. And I would say that for many organizations, if a group decides to attempt the extraction and reuse of a module, they should be prepared to adopt the mindset and working style of a library maintainer. Because once you get other people using your module (the point of reuse) you are automatically going to get multiple points of view on what needs to be improved and changed. You're going to end up being a library maintainer anyway, so you might as well go into it with eyes wide open.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Bad enough, but reality gets even worse. The author of C might be relatively incompetent, have a tendency to add and remove semantics without documenting the changes, be unwilling to fix their bugs, or just plain be a raging asshole.

These days I think long and hard about dependencies, and ten times as long and hard about dependencies controlled by people _inside_ my organization that I don't have the power to strangle.

</comment><comment><USER5> >This can work, but it increases complexity of C, and the logic gets messy as well, as the code gets riddled with if blocks like "if called from A then do this block of logic".

Instead of doing this, the author should consider decomposing C even more. The former is logical cohesion, the latter is functional cohesion.

</comment><comment><USER6> Captures a lot of my own thoughts.

I've seen several examples in my own company's libraries where the authors have built frameworks. It almost always ends up in dependency hell.

At this point, I tend to try and shed dependencies whenever possible. I hate pulling in massive frameworks or worse, libraries that depend on massive frameworks. It almost always results in a brittle solution that causes maintenance nightmares in the future.

This doesn't mean I never use a framework, I just try to restrict it to the application level.

</comment><comment><USER7> Good stuff. The decision when to break out into something reusable is a complicated one. I've found that the "reusability" for a component could be approximated with the the ratio (implementation complexity / interface size). High ratio, i.e complex code combined with well defined and small interface, means it could be extracted and shared in an effective way.

<comment><USER8> I find frequently changing interfaces to be a bigger problem than big interfaces. If the big interface doesn't need changing often, it's not an impediment to reuse. But it is often hard to know what the future brings.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I've found that "micro-reuse" is usually more successful. Break big components into smaller components. If a large-scale abstraction fails to fit, then one can probably still use some of the sub-components.

Design them in a way that the sub-components can be used stand-alone when needed. It may take time (experience) to tune such: your first attempt at a given component abstraction will probably be clunky.</comment>


Rise in opioid use for migraine treatment - <AUTHOR> https://neurosciencenews.com/migraine-opioids-14670/ <comment><USER2> I find the best for headaches is to wrap a flexible icepack around my head. Gone in 15.</comment>


Little trick for finding the right language construct (using Google) - <AUTHOR> http://www.irosetta.com/questions/141/little-trick-for-finding-the-right-language-construct

<comment><USER2> I work on the grammar checking software After the Deadline and I use this trick all the time. I'm working on making my software support more languages and I have to rely on this to tell if something my software says is indeed accurate or not. Like pawing in the dark. :)

For English I use it at times too. If someone says "hey, you flagged this word as misused". I paste the window or words AtD can see into Google with the original word and later the suggestion. I then compare to see if it's reasonable my software made the decision it made with the limited context it looks at (2 words to the left, 1 to the right for misused words).

Fun stuff.

<comment><AUTHOR> Interesting insight, thanks for sharing :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> What if you're trying to learn a new, popular language and you can't come up with one plausible construct, let alone two ?

The gutenberg project may be of help: if books are available in both a language you know as well as one you're trying to learn, it's highly probable you'll find your expression there, and the translation is next to trivial.

This is better than googling, for the reason stated above, but also Not Implemented Yet.

</comment><comment><USER4> Sometimes helpful, but no one should use this method as authoritative. There are plenty of wrong constructions in English (or any other language) that are more popular than the correct ones. Using an "old style" grammar and/or dictionary is still more accurate.

<comment><USER5> I've done this several times. More than blindly looking at the number of search results returned like this article suggests, I actually look for some authoritative websites in the results (like NYT, WashingtonPost, or credible blogs). If it's good enough for NYT, it's good enough for me!

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> If you know any similar trick, let me know in the comments !

<comment><USER6> Type a foreign name, click 'Images', see if that's male or female.

When you work in a multinational company like me, that's handy.

Both tricks are quite obvious. I've used them for years.</comment></comment>


Node.js: Am I just doing it wrong? - <AUTHOR> http://farmdawgnation.com/blog/2013/10/19/nodejs-am-i-just-doing-it-wrong

<comment><USER2> All fair points, these are issues faced by almost everyone starting a node project. Here is a set of good practices that might help:

1\. Use dependency injection moderately. require() calls are cached, and you can overwrite modules for testing with proxyquire/rewire. If you are using mongoose, for example, you don't need to throw around a db instance, just require('mongoose') on each module and access models with mongoose.model('User').

2\. Separate route definitions from controllers:

        // tree.js
        exports.getNuts = function (req, res) { ... }

        // routes.js
        var tree = require('./controllers/tree.js')
        app.get('/nuts', tree.getNuts)

3\. Keep your controllers lean and move logic to your Models or a separate concerns/lib layer, so you can re-use these methods within the application.

4\. Use a control-flow library like async, queue-async, etc. I wouldn't recommend promises as a first since they come with their own caveats. Break down logic into many small methods instead of huge chains.

5\. Absolutely, whenever possible, break out helper methods, abstractions and common patterns in your code into separate npm modules, with it's own set of tests. This should be the final fate of everything in the /lib directory, if you have one. Doing this helps keep your codebase lean and focused, and is a good opportunity to give back to the community.

A rough suggestion on how to organize that last module.exports using caolan/async: [https://gist.github.com/anonymous/7062240](https://gist.github.com/anonymous/7062240)

Finally, it's nice to use a database driver that buffers commands before connect, so you don't need an async step on app initialization.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the helpful tips!

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> A couple suggestions:

callback hell -- 1) Define your callback functions instead of passing anonymous functions everywhere. 2) Use a control flow library like async. [https://npmjs.org/package/async](https://npmjs.org/package/async) This will greatly help in complex scenarios and the "waterfall" mode is particularly useful to accomplish something similar to chaining where values flow through multiple functions. Callback hell is not really an issue for most people after looking into these two things.

data manipulation -- [https://npmjs.org/package/lodash](https://npmjs.org/package/lodash) lodash is a fast functional utility library that makes it much easier to do the everyday data manipulation tasks. I pretty much assume this will be a dependency whenever I start a non-trivial project now.

lack of standards -- Most people who really like node.js see this as a feature not a bug. This definitely drives away many people, but the intention is to promote as much choice as possible. Node.js people tend to be obsessed with choice and modularity. This is not meant as "you should think this way too" type explanation, but just a rough description of how the community is, good or bad. That being said, there are some standards out there. For example Felix's style guide is followed pretty well throughout the community (with a couple notable exceptions such as some of TJ Holowaychuk's stuff) [http://nodeguide.com/style.html](http://nodeguide.com/style.html).

mocha output -- It appears you have your reporter option set to "spec". This is a great reporter for visualizing a set of features, but for integration with something like Jenkins, I would recommend "tap" instead. It is also pretty trivial to write your own reporter, and then you can get whatever type of output you want. [https://github.com/visionmedia/mocha/wiki/Third-party- report...](https://github.com/visionmedia/mocha/wiki/Third-party-reporters)

mocha integration testing -- I agree that the example you showed was more of an integration test than a unit test. Mocha is not really doing anything to discourage unit testing though, and I would note that integration tests can be valuable. If it were me, I would tend to have my unit tests working against the actual module, instead of an endpoint, which is kind of sloppy.

I hope that helps though :) I know it is often frustrating coming into a new language ecosystem, especially a "friendly-anarchy" oriented one like node.js.

</comment><comment><USER4> I definitely relate with the author. I started my own node.js project last week.

I have no idea how to organize my Express app, I have no idea what asset manager to use and yesterday I spent 4 hours just tinkering with my gruntfile to get concat and copy tasks right so my front-end files get moved to the proper folders when I'm ready to build. This is all due to my ignorance / lack of experience, but man, some readily available best practices would be really helpful.

<comment><USER5> They're there, you're just not looking hard enough. I commented on the author's post - what I spoke about might be of use to you too. Also, remember that as a person with internet access, you're not limited to simply sitting at home, reading and practicing. Developers of these tools you use make use of Twitter and IRC and Github specifically so that people who are learning the ropes can contact them and ask (see: pester) them for help. They don't at all do it for experience or recognition in the industry ;) Sometimes the best way to solve a problem is to have a simple conversation with someone a little more experienced in the field. In fact the author's post is a great example of this working. He asked for help, posted it to hacker news, I saw it, I helped. :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> See that light gray text on white background? THat means yes, you're doing it wrong.

I can speak more about node.js once I can read your blog without discomfort.</comment>