Brexit's Tech Brain Drain - <AUTHOR> http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2017/03/brexits-tech-brain-drain-may-have-already-begun/ <comment><USER2> A few anecdotes doesn't count as evidence. I voted for Remain, and hope very much that the Brexit process collapses and we end up staying in the EU. But I also don't want to spend the next 2 years being drip-fed poor quality articles about how we're going to hell in a handbasket.

<comment><USER3> I think that the chances of the Brexit process collapsing just collapsed themselves. The only way to do that was to _not_ trigger Article 50.

<comment><USER4> Not quite:

> the UK will be able to revoke its notification of article 50 but this must > be "subject to conditions set by all EU27 so they cannot be used as a > procedural device or abused in an attempt to improve the actual terms of the > United Kingdom's membership". [1]

So in short, remaining is less likely than ever but still possible.

[1] [https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/29/first-eu- re...](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/29/first-eu-response-to- article-50-takes-tough-line-on-transitional-deal)

<comment><USER3> True, _but_ May has (repeatedly) threatened to go out 'without a deal' if she can't get terms she likes.

The UK has to somehow bluff its way into a negotiation position and I fail to see how all these statements and laws are compatible with each other.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I'm one of the soon-to-be-expat Brits. Like Herr Pierzina, I'm also troubled by the IP Act.

Moving is really not fun, but move I must: the IP Act is unconscionable in many parts, and Brexit takes away one of the few powers that could fight those parts.

Two Home Secretaries in a row that just don't get encryption.

My time is split between finishing my novel, learning German, and trying to catch up on tech that came out while I was writing.

<comment><USER6> There is more tech on heaven and earth, Horatio, then can be caught up amidst your philosophies.

<comment><USER5> Oui, aber mit Deutsche, kaj Esperanoto, και Ελληνικά, I think my philosophies may be broader than most.

More seriously, I know I would be surprised if more than 5% leave willingly. I don't want to go, I just see no choice. Our collective departure will probably boost the wages for developers who do stay in the UK, but by how much, and against which currencies I would not dare to say — economics is an expert level subject, of which I know only the basics.

<comment><USER7> I actually would be one of the developers to come in. As bad as your problems are in the UK, the USA are far worse especially with your browser history effectively being able to be sold to the highest bidder[0]

Not mentioned([0]) is the fact that hiring and recruiting companies will be able to [ab]use this data

[0] [http://www.marketwatch.com/story/your-browser-history- could-...](http://www.marketwatch.com/story/your-browser-history-could-soon- be-sold-to-advertisers-without-your-consent-2017-03-28)

<comment><USER5> I sympathise, but I seriously recommend looking at the UK government's attitude towards encryption and privacy before you jump here. They mean well, but… well, the support material for the IP act reads like their understanding of the internet hasn't changed since 1998.

Part of the Investigation Powers Act is that particular ISPs will be required to store an unspecified dataset related to your browsing history for 12 months, and that they have to keep secret the fact that they are doing so.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> It's at least somewhat ironic, though, that the first person profiled in the article is from Norway, as Norway has always rejected EU membership. If you're upset about Britain leaving the EU, "taking your talents back to Norway" makes it sound like EU membership isn't exactly top of your concerns.

<comment><USER9> > as Norway has always rejected EU membership

But Norway is in the European Economic Area, meaning the (all or nothing) agreement for "the free movement of persons, goods, services and capital within the European Single Market".

if keeping those freedoms are your concern, then you have every right to prefer Norway over England.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area)

<comment><USER8> But negotiations haven't even started between UK and EU over the terms of the exit and what the relationship will look like in 2 years. Seems this article is trying to take a few anecdotes that have a tenuous relationship at best to Brexit being the real root cause of these people leaving.

<comment><USER9> The EU have been consistently clear that those freedoms are "all or nothing" \- you don't e.g. get free trade without free movement, end of.

I would be delighted if England gets the "all" deal like Norway, but that's unlikely since to the Leavers that's a "why bother" Brexit In Name Only.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Foolish and premature.

The UK government has not expressed any intention to restrict skilled immigration in industries facing skills shortages.

It is totally unrestricted immigration of low-skilled individuals that the government (and it's fair to say the British population) are opposed to.

<comment><USER11> _It is totally unrestricted immigration of low-skilled individuals that the government (and it 's fair to say the British population) are opposed to._

This may be the case. Brexit is the dumbest solution to that particular problem though.

<comment><USER12> Had any other solutions been made available, Brexit probably wouldn't be happening.

The EU chose to not make solutions available and stuck it into a "take it or leave it" basket. It seems to me to be a recurring pattern with over- centralized government that they start using more and more of their power this way; you can see it in the US now too, for instance in the way the Trump administration is continuing to saber rattle about either enforcing immigration laws as they choose or cutting off as much Federal funding as they can from cities and states that refuse to comply with their interpretation. It's a very _tempting_ way to exert power, but it makes the system increasingly fragile as you do it, because you eventually get to the point where people start seriously considering and/or triggering the "leave it" option (see also Calexit, for instance; still not very serious but certainly more serious now than it was a year ago).

<comment><USER13>
      The EU chose to not make solutions available and stuck it into a "take it or leave it" basket.

What do you suggest the EU should have done? Free movement is one of the cornerstones of the EU and pretty much not up for negootiation. This includes associated countries like Norway or Switzerland.

So I'm really curious: What, do you suggest, should the EU have offered?

<comment><USER12> "pretty much not up for negootiation."

You basically reiterate my point, that it is "take it all or leave it".

The first step to a solution is obvious right from your phrasing: Put it up for a negotiation. Stop viewing this as "take it all or leave it".

Or, alternatively, be ready to deal with "leave it" as an option. Which, I'd observe, the EU legally was, as this is a legal option that has always existed and is now occurring with no bloodshed, which as these things go is still a well-above-average accomplishment. But psychologically the EU was clearly not ready for this; the expectation is still clearly that, like the United States, members may join but not leave.

<comment><USER14> > The first step to a solution is obvious right from your phrasing: Put it up > for a negotiation. Stop viewing this as "take it all or leave it".

That's like saying we should put the right to live up for negotiation, as humans don't need to live anyway.

If you allow free trade without free movement, companies can move all jobs to another country, and your country might end up with no jobs, and all people poor and fucked.

The only way to guarantee fairness in trade is if your citizen can move to wherever the jobs are, too.

This is a _constitutional cornerstone_ of the EU.

<comment><USER12> Then the EU apparently wrote into its constitutional cornerstone something that was not possible to manifest in the real world, and as a result it is breaking up, at least a little now and possibly still more in the future. Again, at least it is doing so without bloodshed.

The EU has no ontological right to exist. It is not an immutable fact of the universe. It is not rationally or logically valid to reason from "The EU requires this attribute for it to exist as I envision it" to "This attribute must be attainable at a reasonable price." or any variant on that.

I take a historical view on these things. Things are always changing. There exists no polity in history that only grew and never shrank, excepting only those polities that are new enough to not have shrunk yet.

I'm actually sort of becoming something of a secessionist. Not pro-Brexit or pro-Calexit or pro-any-particular-secession, but just generally in favor of the idea that since polities are inevitably going to shrink at some point in the future, it is preferable to make sure that such processes are as easy and as _bloodless_ as possible. People shouldn't need to die by the thousands or millions for something so predictable. I am coming to believe it is a mistake to ever think that one can "permanently" bind a smaller polity into a larger one. And I believe the US has the _much_ greater problem here! The US has no established mechanism for leaving (though a Constitutional amendment could make it possible), and a big ol' Civil War that says it's not possible in the bloodiest possible way. To the extent that we are having similar issues arise in the US, we have no peaceful mechanism for dealing with it.

<comment><USER15> The EU is well short of breaking up; that's "fog in channel, continent cut off" territory. It's the UK that's breaking up, and I think you know it.

The north of my island, Ireland, is a particularly interesting question, independent of Scotland, pardon the pun. Certain breeds of criminals get very fat on smuggling.

<comment><USER12> The EU is breaking up a little now. It's concrete now. It is no longer correct to claim it is not breaking up to a non-zero extent. And there are other countries that are at least making noise about leaving that I would consider feasible candidates over the next 5-10 years.

The UK is definitely facing a lot of stress and I'd place the odds of something breaking away, and that part possibly even rejoining the EU (though that remains to be seen; in the amount of time it will take to accomplish that the calculations of cost/benefit for joining the EU may shift substantially) in the next 5-10 years as quite high.

As someone who just identified as "a bit of a secessionist", I haven't got much motivation for sugarcoating these things, nor even necessarily considering "denying the possibility of secession" as a form of sugarcoating. I'm not sure what the "and I think you know it" bit is for.

I also consider the US a good candidate for some separation. Relatedly, though this isn't "secession" in the same sense, I wouldn't be surprised the Middle East has some country lines that look very different in 20 years. If the world gets into a secessionist mood, Catalan may finally peel away, Quebec separatism could heat up again, and if one listens to the little whispers coming out of China I wouldn't consider it out of the question it ends up cracked into a few pieces. The world has been awfully stagnant politically for a long time, even _before_ we consider the radical technical and social shifts occurring at a rate never before seen in history; I find it implausible that all these changes won't eventually result in some sort of manifestation on the globe. I would not be surprised we're coming up on one of the "punctuations" in a punctuated equilibrium; my interest (to the extent that it matters, which is virtually nil) is not in preventing that from happening, but making sure it happens with as little dying as possible.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> > The loss of a handful of technologists might not feel immediately urgent but > may signal a larger trend.

...and it may not. More brexit fear-mongering.

</comment><comment><USER17> The Brexit is just one of key changes hitting the UK tech working / start-up / corporate environments in the moment.

Brexit, IP Act, changes to IR35 (in / out), the £ drop, announcements of major city firms to reduce staff by 30%+, slowing global economies (real not what statistics are telling), UK service price increases of 10% - 20% as seen in the last months or to come with e.g. electricity, IT and communication services in the next weeks.

All these contribute to a climate of uncertainty and making the UK less competitive.

I've been closely watching various areas of the IT contractor market for the last months - these are normally very good indicators how healthy the industry is / how positive or negative forward looking is.

In more than 15 years I have never seen these markets being as bad as they are in the moment.

This might all sound very gloomy, but if the UK government continues with their path as seen in the last months, they are burning the ground we all in the UK stand on.

<comment><USER18> > In more than 15 years I have never seen these markets being as bad as they > are in the moment

Care to elaborate a bit on this? I'm genuinely interested.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> After Brexit everyone in Zurich thought that all FinTech startups would move from London to Frankfurt or maybe Zurich, since Switzerland has tight relationships with the EU.

This did not seem to happen.

Also, I haven't gotten more UK people asking me for tech jobs in Zurich compared to before Brexit. (I run a tech recruiting agency; happy to help people who want to move to Switzerland, you finde the recently released job- list here: [https://coderfit.catsone.com/careers/](https://coderfit.catsone.com/careers/) \- job-descriptions are still WIP, please bear with us)

<comment><USER20> Your ability to connect any recruitment related article discussing something local for anywhere in the world to your recruiting agency in Zurich is impressive:) I don't normally recognize people on HN without looking at the nickname but I know it's you all the time :)

<comment><USER19> Thank you! I honestly primarily try to add value.

Some people moved because of these posts, so I hope my outreach has a positive net impact on the HN community.

<comment><USER3> > I hope my outreach has a positive net impact on the HN community.

And of course on your wallet.

<comment><USER19> It's not so much actually. If you think recruiting is easy money, you are wrong.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> It has begun. One of our best developers is moving back to Poland. I can't say I blame him.

<comment><USER22> Surely this is a victory for Poland?

<comment><USER23> That depends, are there companies in Poland that can make good use of his specific skills? You cannot ignore the effects of matching people with the jobs where they are most productive. People moving between countries is not a zero sum game.

<comment><USER24> A lot has changed in Poland trough past couple years especially for developers. You can now get decent salary in major cities. It's still not as good as in UK where you can have decent salary in cities with population of 30k+ but it's getting there, plus there is always Germany witch is close enough.

Quick story. I am working for small UK holidays company located in one of the biggest IT hubs outside of London. Our whole dev team is made up from non UK, EU citizens. Recently we had openings for mid backend dev and junior/mid frontend dev roles and only about 20% of CVs was from native UK citizens (mostly, highly under qualified even for junior role/couldn't pass FizzBuzz). Rest of candidates was mix of EU, visas and double citizenship and we ended up offering both positions to two EU citizens.

If UK government will ban employment of people from outside of UK or make it difficult or expensive then small companies like ours will not be able to operate.

I see that developers are looking more and more for jobs outside of the UK. Recruiters and EU employers also can see what is going on and I'm receiving more job offers from them, offering help with relocation outside of UK.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Ultimate Irony: if the Brexit leads to brain drain leads to importing more immigrants.

<comment><USER25> We've already been told this won't lead to a drop in immigration as we need the staff. The power to control it will be ours but we won't be exercising it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> I know at least one programmer who is leaving the UK because of Brexit. Personally I am staying put and assuming things will work out ok.

<comment><USER26> Are they truly leaving, actually making plans and the like or did they just say they were going to leave because I heard countless friends talk of leaving for Canada if Trump won and not a damn one did.

<comment><USER7> > and not a damn one did.

Since the Patriot Act and other changes in the early 2000s, your nationality is henceforth _Sticky_ if you live in the US.

My sister expatriated last year (to UK, actually) from US, and she had to hire an immigration attorney, go through interrogations (from both destination and comefrom), and actually got sent back to the US once they found accidentally conflicting stories from her friends who currently live in the UK.

I'd never make fun of people who express desire to leave. Not everyone has the same circumstances as you.

<comment><USER26> I have not made fun of everyone, I only pointed out the perennial "flee to Canada" claims in light of the most recent "bad thing."

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> The drain in brains goes mainly west in planes.

<comment><USER5> I considered Silicon Valley until I realised how different UK and US politics are. Extreme right wing in the UK is a bit to the left of Obama.

If the EU does collapse, I'll consider Canada.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> I'm in a similar position: I've recently left (to Spain, working remotely) originally temporarily, but the further this goes the less tempted I am to ever head home.

That said, this is all anecdotal. Still, while anecdotes aren't data, they do suggest that there could be some interesting data hidden nearby... Is there any hard research or even just large surveys that are actually looking at this?

</comment><comment><USER29> If the roles they are leaving are truly "in demand", the market will make up for it.

For perspective, that feeling of, "Wow! This place is different now" is what some of these same people were imposing on the locals.

This article seems like it was solely written to make Leave voters feel guilty and further shame them in the eyes of those who voted Stay. What else could be the point?

</comment><comment><USER30> And the final sentences of the piece undermine the rest of it.

> Many technologists interviewed will remain in the U.K. through Brexit, > citing family ties, work or a desire to stay and effect change at home. > While few technologists interviewed offered optimistic outlooks of a post- > Brexit British tech scene, many are determined to do what they can in its > wake.

</comment><comment><USER31> Curious to get some perspective from (British) Londoners and how they feel about this. Do they not feel cornered out of the market against the top 1% of global talent heading to London? Particularly in tech with insane recruiting procedures.

</comment><comment><USER32> No one think of it in another way: they were originally talents in their home country and it is actually the recovery of the "Brain-Drain" of their home country...

</comment><comment><USER33> Anecdotally I've heard about more people moving to uk from America than leaving uk for EU over the last few months.

</comment><comment> d--b Been there, moved out.

</comment><comment><USER34> good quote from the comments:

 _Overlord_Dave • 11 minutes ago

Remember guys and gals, the plural of anecdote is not data_

<comment><USER35> The thing is, I agree this article is low quality but the compound nature of brexit+snoopers charter+uncertainty with companies is certainly affecting the attractiveness of the country.

I'm British, I left to go work in Sweden for a couple years while my girlfriend finished her studies here, since I've been here we've had _significant_ challenges and erosions of rights and privacy in the UK, the EU (with all its warts) was investing much more in deprived areas of the country than the UK government was (or had done pre-EU).

It's bleak, there's a bigger country than just London (which currently carries almost the entire of the rest of the UK financially) and the companies that run there are fickle.

There is a self-fulfilling cycle that goes with London, companies go there because it's where the brains are. Brains go there because it's where the companies are.

If there is another place companies go, the brains will undoubtedly follow. Then who carries the UK?

\-- Sorry, this turned into a rant, all I really wanted to say is:

Anecdatum is not data; but with enough of it, it can certainly paint a keen picture of the situation for many.

<comment><USER36> >>> If there is another place companies go, the brains will undoubtedly follow.

Companies want the brain to go there, the brains want the company there to go there. Circular dependency.

That's why there are only few tech hubs and they won't change.</comment></comment></comment>


Django 2.0 alpha - <AUTHOR> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/releases/2.0?hnews <comment><USER2> If anyone wants to see "Database level -- on delete cascade", here's my PR to Django that's been open since July/August: [https://github.com/django/django/pull/8661](https://github.com/django/django/pull/8661)

<comment><USER3> Nothing against your PR, but the default cascade-on-delete behavior is my least favorite thing about Django. :(

<comment><USER2> You don't like that models.CASCADE fakes it with extra requests to the Db? Or you don't like that the default is models.CASCADE instead of something like models.DO_NOTHING? There's talk of making the on_delete kwarg required. In that world there would be no default :).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Some highlights from the pages:

"This alpha milestone marks a complete feature freeze."

"The current release schedule calls for a beta release in about a month and a release candidate about a month from then."

"The Django 1.11.x series is the last to support Python 2.7."

</comment><comment><USER5> Can someone recommend a learning path for building Django sites/apps to someone who has no web dev experience but uses python for scripting and workstation utilities? In particular, I use python for VFX/CGI scripting.

<comment><USER6> Start with the django-tutorial. Always start with the tutorial no matter what else they tell you. The django tutorial is excellent and cover most basics: [https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.11/intro/tutorial01/](https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.11/intro/tutorial01/)

Then start writing your own application. When you have questions read the django documentantion. The django docs are the _best_ documentantion I've ever seen, they are better than most books about django and should answer all your questions. The docs are so good I recommend reading them from start to finish - i.e download this off line version of the docs: [https://media.readthedocs.org/pdf/django/1.11.x/django.pdf](https://media.readthedocs.org/pdf/django/1.11.x/django.pdf)

and read it from cover to cover. You will not regret it.

<comment><USER5> Thank you. My bookworm habits make this hard to accept, but your advice reflects my experience learning Python as well. The python.org tutorial was better than anything.

Would you also recommend learning CSS, HTTP, PHP _before_ the Django tutorials?

<comment><USER7> I strongly recommend the DjangoGirls tutorial:

[https://tutorial.djangogirls.org/](https://tutorial.djangogirls.org/)

It covers HTML, CSS, git, etc. in addition to teaching you Django.

<comment><USER8> I also like that tutorial, but the name is a bit unfortunate. I recommended it to a woman and she quickly accused me of "giving her a dumbed down tutorial for girls". I had to convince her that the site is actually very good.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Can someone who uses Django, review this release? What are the most anticipated changes etc?

<comment><USER10> Not an expert by any means but to me the biggest change is no more Python 2.

> Django 2.0 supports Python 3.4, 3.5, and 3.6. We highly recommend and only > officially support the latest release of each series.

People should not write new code in Python 2 at all. If you're learning Python today, I'd say pretend Python 2 doesn't exist. Use python3-venv and renounce the baggage of the past.

<comment><USER5> Doing VFX pipeline dev here and none of the softwares support 3 yet. Houdini/3ds Max/Maya are all 2.7 only.

I have not even seen mention of moving to 3.

<comment><USER7> What are they planning to do when the support for Python 2 runs out and people remind them they had a decade in which to start a port but didn't?

<comment><USER5> I have the same question. If I remember right, it's going to happen in 2020.

I don't work with a studio yet but studios who buy the software don't seem too worried for some reason, even though their pipelines depend on it. Maybe someone else can offer better insight. As someone wanting to go into pipeline development, I am very curious.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> It's a bit disappointing that Django doesn't emphasize REST more. I'm expecting that "classic" web application frameworks with templates rendered on the server (as long as they are not templates from a client-side framework rendered there for some optimization) are on their way out. And, to be honest, REST is not a strength of Django ...

<comment><USER12> I'm expecting that REST APIs are on their way out ツ but what's wrong with the Django REST Framework?

<comment><USER13> Why is that, are you thinking about GraphQL?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I started learning Django yesterday and now I'm not sure if I should just skip to the 2.0 alpha instead of learning the current stable version.

<comment><USER15> I wouldn't worry that much about it, the differences between Django 1.11 and Django 2.0 aren't major ones with the exception of dropping support for Python 2.x and the new simplified URL routing syntax.

Django 1.11 is a LTS (Long Term Support) release so it will have security upgrades until 2020, so you are safe sticking with it.

However I'd go ahead with 1.11 and transition to 2.0 to learn how Django handles deprecation and how to upgrade a codebase, both very useful skills as Django has a steady release process and it's often easier to track Django than to do a multi-version migration.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> How a rails/ruby buy should start with python/django?

<comment><USER17> Two answers for you:

1) don't-- instead learn about making single page apps on the front end using React and Redux, or perhaps Angular 2. Then write a REST backend in either Node, Go, Python, or C#. Or go serverless and write the backend in Firebase.

2) if you really do want to do Django, start by doing the default tutorial that focuses on building something in the admin interface. Coming from a rails background you are on somewhat similar ground.

<comment><USER6> Answer 1) is plain wrong. I don't think that more than 10% of all web applications will benefit from SPAs. Your recommendation stands only for valley companies that have money to burn.

For example, in my industry (I work on the public sector) SPAs are never needed. Good old traditional request/response web apps, maybe with a little jquery on top to make things more responsive or add some advanced controls (autocompletes, keywords etc) are perfect for the job.

An experienced django developer can create a full traditional multi-user CRUD web app in a couple of hours. You'll just create the models and a couple of CBVs and everything else will be auto-created (but not magically created) through django-forms, django-filters and django-tables2. Now, how much time would you need to duplicate this functionality with an SPA? As I said, if you have money to burn then this is the way to go - on other cases, just use Django.

<comment><USER17> > Answer 1) is plain wrong. I don't think that more than 10% of all web > applications will benefit from SPAs. Your recommendation stands only for > valley companies that have money to burn.

Actually it's very easy to put together a single page application today! Really easy, really fast, really practical. I'll lay out the basic steps below. But before that, an important note: several years ago, what you said was totally true. In, say, 2013, it would have been a big piles-of-cash- burning exercise to make a single page application. Today, though, it's actually quite simple, fast, and productive to create and deploy a single page application. Here are the basic steps, assuming you're using Angular 2 for example.

1) Generate your application. This is a single command line command. 2) Edit it a little, add a text box and some buttons. 3) Deploy it to google app engine; this is a single command line command, too.

The time investment is in learning how to write apps with Angular 2 or React. That is indeed a big learning curve, but it's way easier today than it was years ago. Angular 2 is way easier to write apps in than Angular 1 was. Deployment is easier than it once was.

My real thesis here is that today is a good day to embrace the modern web and try things a new way-- single page apps are actually much more straightforward and practical than they were years ago.

I totally agree that if your goal is to build a crud app for a client then Django is likely a superior approach. But if you're already a Rails developer that wants to learn something new, then SPA is a better investment of time than Django.

<comment><USER6> > 1) Generate your application. This is a single command line command. 2) Edit > it a little, add a text box and some buttons. 3) Deploy it to google app > engine; this is a single command line command, too.

That will create a toy application. If you want to create a production application you need to handle data. To handle data you will need:

* Tables / lists to display the data

* Views to edit and display the data

* Forms to edit the data

* Auditing of the user actions

* User authentication + authorization

All these are _not_ trivial to create in an SPA especially since you'll always need both server _and_ client side code. With django (or rails, or spring or various other server only frameworks) you won't need to write client code _and_ most of these components will be auto-generated (at leas their default values).

For your last comment, I also agree that if you know rails then you don't really need to learn django since they are both similar (however I do profer django because of its no magic philisophy and because python is a better language than ruby) but I believe that you also don't need to go the SPA route until somebody specifically asks for an SPA and has good reasons asking for it (or you want to learn the technology and modern frameworks that surround SPAs).

As a final comment, I have to say that really like all those modern frameworks (especiall react and redux) but I won't consider them for my day-to-day job since instead of creating something in 1 week I'd need 1 month using these technologies.

<comment><USER17> I think you and I are actually not far apart on this at all. Everything you mentioned Django does well. And so does Rails. And I sorely miss the beauty of Django admin in the world of SPA's.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> How smooth is to upgrade your app to every future release of Django? Starter here, on Python and then Django.

<comment><USER19> In very broad terms it's not bad. The docs are great and they give specific advice for upgrades.

With that said you may find many 3rd party apps / utils lagging. A couple libs I use still don't support new style middleware, for instance.

With 2.0 dropping support for py2.7 this might cause more pain points for poorly maintained libs but all in all keeping up with Django releases is pretty straightforward and almost always worth it.

Source: happily using Django since 2008.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> So basically nothing new. Nothing about channels, ASGI or any async support which IMHO are way overdue to be included.

</comment><comment><USER21> Hmm, I haven't done much with Django in a while, but for a major version this seems a bit... underwhelming.

<comment><USER22> Dropping python2 is a pretty big feature alone.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: How to deal with unwanted coworker requests? - <AUTHOR>

After submitting a change today that added a JavaScript dependency to the header of a web page on our site, I received an unsolicited email from a coworker on another team asking me if I could do it another way. He provided the justification that it would improve performance.
Unable to think of anything else to say, I replied and told him it was a good idea (without committing to make the change). In reality, making the suggested change the right way would require at least two hours of refactoring and testing. While the change would cause an improvement in performance, it was my judgment that the benefits of the change did not justify its costs given the number of visits the web page receives and other project priorities.
I realized I've been dealing with this general situation for years with no personal guidelines on how to handle it in the most productive way. I feel such requests are disrespectful because they imply that the requestor's time is more important than the requestee's. I don't want to bruise his ego or cause a conflict, especially because I am fairly new at this company, and he's the lead of his team.
HN, what do you think is the proper professional response? <comment><USER2> Thanks for your comment Dave. The performance of that web page is not high on our list of priorities at the moment, but I'll be happy to revisit the issue after we clear the critical blocking issues off our plates. If your team has an urgent need for a repriorization of this please feel free to send a request to $MANAGER.

Regards,

$YOU

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you patio. Well done. I'd be worried he thought that was condescending, but I am probably being paranoid. And sorry if I'm being dense, but what's the general principle behind that response? Be assertive yet gracious?

<comment><USER3> It is condescending.

The problem is we don't know how friendly you and Dave are and how he handles things. This could suffice as well.

"Nice, didn't think of doing it that way. Once my plate is clear I'll change things. -You"

<comment><USER2> You've just said "Yes, I will change this" instead of "No, I will not change this, but I am _open to the possibility of changing this_ at a later date _if you feel strongly enough about it to bring it up again_." Six months from now if this is not done yet it is because _you have not done your job_.

With my mail, Dave should understand that I consider this issue resolved unless Dave continues to make an issue of it. That is a critical thing to communicate to Dave if you do not, in fact, plan on changing this.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Keep in mind, you might very well be facing somebody who feels the need to prove himself. If this is the case, then the issue is marginally technical; his need to be right is his prime motivation.

Your first response was perfect IMO.

In situations like this you need to manage a person, not software nor a project. If he's in a sibling reporting branch, you may want to discuss the situation with your lead. He may decide to go ahead with the modification in the interest of good relations. If he does, you must understand this is not a judgment from your lead on the quality of your work.

<comment><USER5> Yeah I second that it might well be someone who wants to prove himself, or a geek with poor social skills who want to befriend you by commenting on your work.

It is pretty rude to just ask outright of anyone to rewrite their code, a writing such a request as a suggestion or opening to discussion is much friendlier. It would not be rude if there's a critical problem, but just a small performance increase is way out of line.

The correct way to deal with this is of course to add the script tags at the bottom of the page ;) (apart from your coworker not noticing - it's better for performance as (most?) browsers completely stop doing anything but loading javascript when they encounter a javascript tag).

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I must say I sympathize. We have a pretty stringent code review system where I work and people are always coming up with nitpicky type of things.

Whenever I get technical comments from people that seems to me like they put alot of thought into, I always approach them for a quick chat, ask some questions even if you don't have any. It's a great way to build relationships, especially if you're new. And you tend to find that in the end it's not really important that you guys agree, but that you guys understood each other's technical perspective. This is an opportunity for you to network with this particular engineer, you should take advantage of it.

</comment><comment><USER7> "Patches welcome."

 _Edit: That is, if you work with professionals._</comment>


Senator Lieberman proposes to eliminate Section 230 immunity from blogs - <AUTHOR> http://mcintyre-v-ohio.com/2012/04/section-230-revision-will-likely-impact-anonymous-internet-speech/ <comment><USER2> When the constitution was framed, 'the press' meant literally anyone with a printing press, which allowed them to mass produce their newspapers, newsletters and zines.

Now, presses were expensive, so it's a matter for debate whether the founders would have given the same right to everyone if presses were cheap like the interenet is today. Remember that only landholders could vote - they made distinctions based on wealth and status.

But it's not a matter for debate whether amateur press was intended to be afforded protection. The press by and large _was_ amateur, and far closer to the full time bloggers of today than it was to the New York Times.

If anything, the scrutiny of lawmakers should be on the press conglomerates where so much power is in so few hands; but of course, that's not the way the world works.

<comment><USER3> I always find the american obsession with the constitution (& founding fathers) a little weird. How about deciding what's best for now instead of trying to interpret the words of a couple of guys 200 years ago as a gospel about how the internet should work?

<comment><USER4> The Constitution is the supreme law of our land.

There's a clearly-defined process for changing it (it's been done 27 times, in fact). "Deciding what's best for now" inevitably leads to abuses, or so many of us see it (who gets to "decide" what's "best"?)

"Interpret the words of a couple of guys 200 years ago as a gospel about how the internet should work?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

That still works for me. What problems do you see with it?

<comment><USER5> Who decides what religion is?

Who decides what speech is?

Who decides who the press are?

Who determines peaceful assembly vs riotous mob behavior?

Who determines the processes by which we can petition our government and the process' effectiveness?

At best, these are all still grey areas we've been trying to nail down since before these words were written.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Not a lawyer. I have a question:

Joe tells me "Frank just killed three people and is a thief".

I go to a well attended town meeting and say "Joe told me that Frank just killed three people and is a thief".

Am I liable for defamation of character if Joe did not tell me the truth?

Am I liable for any damages caused to Frank for this?

How is this different from a blog posting something that a third party said or having its users post their own content?

<comment><USER7> IANAL but I think you would be liable. Newspapers get sued all the time for printing things that aren't true. The reasoning is that you have conscious control over what you say.

So in your example, a Tumblr blogger could get sued, but Tumblr would not be. The provision in the Communications Decency Act was intended to shield internet service providers like AOL. Before the Act passed, let's say AOL had reviewers looking over comments and removing some of them. Someone could then turn around and sue AOL by saying, "Hey look, your reviewers let this comment stand and it's defamatory!" Whereas if AOL had taken a more hands off stance, they might have have better off legally. Congress put in the provision to encourage internet providers to police their content without fear of legal repercussions. It's sort of like how Good Samaritan laws protect people who try to help accident victims.

<comment><USER6> You can get sued for anything. Whether or not the lawsuit has merit or not is another matter. I think that's the key here. Would you be liable give my hypothetical scenario?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> It would a special kind of fun if Lieberman participated in some sort of online forum where comments were allowed, and somebody organized a protest of sorts that flooded the comment system with things such that Lieberman was himself now liable for those comments under his proposed change.

</comment><comment><USER9> Can they ever really stop us? We'll use every possible measure aka toe to make the Internet free. Just ask the guys at silk road

</comment><comment><USER6> If the lunatics are not running the asylum they sure are trying very, very hard. And we keep letting them.

<comment><USER10> Well, the asylum used to largely be a state run enterprise, but it was put on the open market after some friends of the inmates pointed out how expensive and badly run it was.

Then the inmates bought all the shares.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Be careful what you say here. ;-)

</comment><comment><USER12> Erm... Is this real? It was posted on "don't believe anything on the internet" day

</comment><comment><USER13> For all his years in the Senate, what an amateur he is. Let the terrorists have their communications and get a warrant to force Twitter, Youtube, etc to pipe all related activity to the FBI. Otherwise they'll go underground to where the TLAs can no longer see them.

<comment><USER14> Count on Lieberman to be on the wrong side of every crucial issue. He's the worst kind of Washington apparatchik tool.

<comment><USER15> I'll probably get down voted for this, but in every sense the guy is a f _ing a_ hole.

If he is not, his view of the world, and his decision process that brings him to rationalize supporting some of our most destructive legislation is truly disturbing.

<comment><USER16> I'm from the US. In my youth, I would discuss politics with just about anyone under almost any circumstances. Tonight, I admit to having had a few drinks, and understand this may be an admission of apathy to all the wrong internet strangers...

However, I just want you as a PERSON to know that at least one other human out in the void that is the United States agrees completely with you.

When I think of people like Joe Lieberman still having a job in 2012, and then realize that he and others like him are continually _elected_ by people who buy from me, work with me, and live with me because on some level they want(??) people like this in office............

Words are incapable of describing my sadness, anger, and eventual apathy towards the process.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Who needs actual "enemies of the state" when you have Senators like Joe Liberman?</comment>


Show HN: Collab with friends, create spaced-rep flashcards linked to class notes - <AUTHOR> https://idorecall.com <comment><AUTHOR> iDoRecall is a new kind of spaced-repetition flashcard app. You upload your learning materials (many file types and videos.) You create flashcards linked to the concepts and facts in your study materials that you want to remember. When you practice, if you forget the answer, click a link to open the source file/video at the exact spot where you learned it. Quickly refresh your memory and get back to your practice session.

iDR now allows students to create study groups and share files and flashcards. Teachers can also create classes and do the same.

I'd love your feedback, positive and negative. Thanks!</comment>


Ask HN: What keeps you up at night? What do you worry about? - <AUTHOR> Just generally speaking, what do you worry about the most? Family's safety & health, finances, work, etc.? <comment><USER3> Not being able to make enough money. As I lived in extreme poverty in my childhood (and all that changed thanks to online MOOCs). I now work as remote SE and I have around $10k in savings. I am graduating with robotics and AI masters degree. But I always fear that I will lose all my money and be poor again. I literally prefer dying than being poor again. The worst days of my life, I couldn't have a proper childhood because of that, it's the thing that I fear the most in this life and haunts me everyday.

<comment><USER4> True but you survived it. You adapted and made something out of it. Don't forget that strength. No one can take that a way from you.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> My only daughter stopped breathing and turned blue 3 days after she was born, and I, lucky to have attended a first aid course just 3 weeks prior to that, was able to perform CPR and make her regain consciousness. She's 14 months old now and perfectly healthy, but the horror of those minutes where she was dying in my hands still haunts me. It's getting better, but every now and then my brain briefly relives those moments.

<comment><USER6> Thanks for sharing, shows why we should all do a first aid course.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> 1) Climate change and the collapse of modern civilization.

2) Dying before having children or proving my worth. Living in poverty.

3) Losing face. I don't want to disappoint my family anymore.

4) The fear of diabetes and other illnesses.

5) The cultural and demographic destruction of Europe.

<comment><USER8> Is #5 really happening?

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Money & being the sole income earner in the house (wife and 3 kids) and doing it by freelancing. Like most Americans, we live payment-by-payment.

The other problem I have is anxiety, procrastination, and similar issues.

If you're asking this to fish for product ideas, I would love to see a managed task-master assistant service.

Remember that story of a guy that used to pay someone to sit next to him and hit him whenever he was procrastinating? Something similar could be set up where when your day starts, you connect with your assistant via video chat. They can watch everything happening on your screen.

At the start of the day, they should spend some time asking what you want to get done and break it down into a task list for you and feed you pomodoro-like chunks. An assistant could monitor 4 to 8 people at the same time with the right software (screenshots and list of open window titles).

A paid task-master or accountability-buddy. Maybe $3 or $4 an hour for the service.

<comment><USER10> Have you thought about setting up a system like this with another freelance friend? Every day you could hop on a call with them and tell them your goals. You can help each other flesh out task lists and determine 'pomodoro-like chunks'.

It seems like you wouldn't really need to hire someone for this, you can just find an accountability buddy who would benefit from these meetings too.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I worry that I'm wasting my years on a career that keeps me comfortable but doesn't really exercise my mind. I often daydream about working in academia, journalism or some other vocation where I could be paid to research, think and write. Then I snap awake and get back to writing generic web applications shuffling strings around.

<comment><USER12> I'm a tenured professor, and I came here to post that my wife and I are struggling with whether or not we should move and I should quit my career. She has a job offer, and we've had realtors over to discuss prepping our house for sale, so it's not a purely theoretical question.

Part of the issue is that I don't know what I'd do next. I'd probably watch our child for a couple of years, and then my best guess is to go get a second undergraduate degree, in comp sci, maybe a combined bachelor's-master's degree. But I don't know.

The problem is that academics is a corrupt mess on the inside, and people on the outside, like legislators, push for solutions that will only exacerbate the problems. Its as if your child had diabetes and certain influential physicians' groups started advocating that the best thing for diabetes is to eat lots of simple carbohydrates.

Yes, you theoretically have a lot of freedom in academics, but there's lots of caveats to that. Nowadays, universities only care about what brings in money, so even if you think something is important to research and you don't need money to do it, if it doesn't bring in grant dollars, it doesn't matter, regardless of citation rates. Social dynamics are about 80% of success as well --fads are rampant, and who is credited with something is wildly unpredictable (just last night, I read that something that is commonly cited in my field, even more so than Watson & Crick's DNA paper, reflects a misattribution of credit, which the author actually is explicit about in that paper. It's as if everyone attributed helix structure to Watson & Crick, but if Watson & Crick explicitly stated in their paper "hey, this isn't our idea, we got it from Smith & Jones" and almost no one remembers Smith & Jones).

I could go on and on.

The worst part about it for me is that I feel trapped. Universities tend to hire younger untenured faculty because it's cheaper, and there's only so many places to go anyway. I miss the geography of home, and feel out of place in my field and society (just hypothetically, imagine being a historian by degree, but who does research on signal processing in an archaeological imaging context--reasonable enough, right? But now solve the problem of how to do PR with the conservative legislators who think the liberal arts are useless and should be gutted). Also, I've specialized so specifically it's hard to figure out how to transition to something else (again, who would hire a historian who specializes in archeaological imaging research?)

I often feel like all I want is to do is live someplace that I like in terms of climate, and is modestly interesting. Most of the time I feel like I'd rather be putting together generic web apps in a place I love than being forced to live someplace that feels alien to me because of some freedom and security that is anything but.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> All injustice of the world keeps me up at night. That good people are dying. That many people have no way out of slavery, poverty, survival mode. That it happens while rich and powerful deny them a chance. That war is everywhere in one form or another. That centuries will pass before we get many of today's problems fixed. That many people stay broken and miserable despite having what seems to be normal life from the outside. That racism, sexism, bullying are everywhere. That so few people actually care about all those things.

</comment><comment><USER14> What happens after death? Do you simply cease to exist? What happens to your mind and soul? I'm not a religious person but sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night thinking about this. It's such a weird feeling when you think deeply about it.

I try and not think too much about it.

<comment><USER15> I've also experienced this kind of existential dread on and off for the past 10 years or so. What really helped me was reading the work of Alan Watts. I find the idea of the concepts of "self" and "other" being mere illusions and that everyone is the universe looking at itself through a different lens really appealing, and makes the idea of dying someday more acceptable to me.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> The past few years have been really hard with family health. On a similar theme, my fitness could be better, but it's not something that keeps me up at night.

Outside of the family/health stuff, I'd say my biggest worry is actually getting something meaningful done in my life. Don't get me wrong, I've got a good job with a well-paid salary and benefits, good family life and financially comfortable, I'm happy and grateful for all that as well.

However, I know I'm technically capable of doing or building something interesting, and ideally profitable to a point that it could be a business to support me. But I always seem to be stuck in the somewhat cliche spiral of pointless procrastination, browsing HN under the false pretence of fishing for ideas and inspiration, which is really just fueling the procrastinating.

I'm not sure if my head is just wired differently to others, but I really struggle to find ideas that aren't a blatant copy of others, and the original ones I can tell are flawed by design or the market is so small that it'll never me more than a little bit of Adsense revenue etc. Similarly, I'm envious of others people's focus to actually get something built, shipped and profitable.

</comment><comment><USER17> That a history of trauma and lack of stable attachments in my life has but one likely outcome: The eventual end of my life by my own hands.

I see a therapist regularly, but I've always had this sense of being a broken individual who is always a few steps behind everyone else. It feels hopeless and definitely keeps me up at night.

<comment><USER18> Most people are broken. Only people who have had a fantastically privileged upbringing and have never felt want don't feel broken in some way, and even then, they likely fake it to fit in.

I feel like I'm living in a reference counting memory management system - <USER2> nobody else depends on me then I will be reclaimed as garbage. It's what keeps me fighting to stay connected to everyone I know, but it's so tiring.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Gaining weight. I love eating. I could eat a lot of food. I also have night eating syndrome. So I usually have my first meal of the day very early in the morning around 2:00 AM or so. This happens after I fall asleep. I will wake up in my sleep and grab food from the kitchen, usually about 400 calories worth of food. Then, I go back to sleep. I haven't been able to solve this problem.

<comment><AUTHOR> [https://www.amazon.com/Marinelock-MLDOORW-Refrigerator- Door-...](https://www.amazon.com/Marinelock-MLDOORW-Refrigerator-Door- Lock/dp/B000QD32MY)

<comment><USER19> That looks to be a potential solution. Thank you. I will make sure not to have snack foods in the cabinets that are able consumed without cooking (e.g. chips, cookies, etc.) I only keep rice, pasta, and sauce in the cabinets.

I could also lock the key in my mailbox before I go to sleep, then grab it in the morning.

<comment><USER20> Do you exercise ?

<comment><USER19> 3 to 5 times a week, cardio (30 to 60 min.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> I don't worry about anything, but Netflix tends to keep me up at night.

</comment><comment><USER22> Hmm, let's see what keeps me up all night.

      * Unemployed for 2 years
      * 35, single due to unemployment
      * I feel lucky; no kids to torture with this misery
      * Mortgage ~= 209K euros
      * Thinking of ways to make a living
      * Companies avoid hiring me for some reason and they simply reply back with an "overqualified" email.
      * If I was given the opportunity to change profession, what would be the ideal job for me?
      * OCD, Highly Sensitive Person (HSP), introvert by nature. Now that's a deadly cocktail!
      * Have zero friends to go out, plus living in the mountains with parents (thank you financial recession)
      * Bloody vampires (mosquitoes) around the room, they are everywhere!
      * Remembering things I did when I was 6 or 7 years old and feel embarrassed now. It happens all the time...

<comment><USER20> Damn dude, that's messed up (sorry). Assuming you're a programmer, can't you make a `incremental persistent improvment` program ? Like fixing stuff 1 by 1.

Let's start: Do you train ?

<comment><USER22> My major is Computer Science, but my professional experience is around Technical Support.

I was never given the opportunity to master a language and I have been experimenting with programming since 2003, always at an academic level.

On the other hand, as I say "what you know or think you know, has nothing to do with reality".

When you say train, you mean exercising and such? No, the only thing my body can handle is walking. When I exercise or do any other form of physical activity, I get sick easily and takes me a whole week to recover.

Now about incremental persistent improvement, I do my best to improve myself. To give you an idea, I was surrounded by negative people and decided to cut ties with nearly all of them to save myself from pessimism. I still have a long way to go, but I'm getting there.

<comment><USER20> Yes I meant exercise. Have you checked with a doctor about your issue ? Can you swim (should be best for body&mind) ?

Do you eat healthy food ? Do you get enough sleep ?

Do you know python (or some other lang) ? Can you check projects on upwork (or similiar) and start from the bottom and work your way up (what I did) ?

Can you do a program where you list all your issues and beneath them list several optional things that you think you can do/try to improve them, put them on a todo-task-list and try to work on them everyday (by marking) and doing/checking some stats ? (is there a program for this, kinda want it for myself too)

Where do you live ? Have you tried checking meetup.com or similar sites for activities/events to do (..hard in mountain I guess?) ?

Any drugs ? Like, do you smoke ?

<comment><USER22> > Yes I meant exercise. Have you checked with a doctor about your issue ? Can > you swim (should be best for body&mind) ?

Yes, my doctors told me that my system is such that is vulnerable to excessive exercise and sudden weather changes.

> Do you eat healthy food ?

Yep, Greek food all day and all night.

> Do you get enough sleep ?

Like a good looking princess.

> Do you know python (or some other lang) ?

Yep, I know Python (Django is sexy!), C, C++, PHP, JavaScript - Node.js (ES2015 / ES6), some Perl / Lua, etc etc.

> Can you check projects on upwork (or similiar) and start from the bottom and > work your way up (what I did) ?

I have tried remote jobs and could not compete with Chinese, Indians, and Pakistani developers. They offer cheap labor and a rich portfolio, whereas I was not given the slightest chance to compete; so I gave up on that.

> Can you do a program where you list all your issues and beneath them list > several optional things that you think you can do/try to improve them, put > them on a todo-task-list and try to work on them everyday (by marking) and > doing/checking some stats ? (is there a program for this, kinda want it for > myself too)

Being an OCD person obliges you to be organized lol, so yeah I have done my TODO list and I have it right in front of me right now to be honest with you. Comparing my past self with the present one, I have improved by orders of magnitude.

> Where do you live ? Have you tried checking meetup.com or similar sites for > activities/events to do (..hard in mountain I guess?) ?

In Cyprus. As an introvert, I can't stand being surrounded by people. It exhausts me within minutes and I need to get back home, to get in my room to recharge. Some times I get so exhausted that I need vitamin support to heal; it sucks -_-

> Any drugs ? Like, do you smoke ?

COFFEE! LOTS AND LOTS OF COFFEE!

<comment><USER20> Can you somehow fix the introvertness (i have no idea) ?

Can you quit coffee ? I did, and now only use it on special situations.

<comment><USER22> Introversion is not something that can be fixed for the simplest reason: it's a trait not a disease. I really like being an introvert, but I need to figure out ways to make a living by surrounding it.

About quitting coffee, I thought about it and probably I should...some day!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> I also used to worry about money after buying the 1st house - it is always more expensive than every projection or budget you make + there is always something to do/repair or buy... Fortunately for me, those worries are in the past and I am sleeping like a baby again...

</comment><comment><USER24> Generally I tend to avoid doing things that would keep me up at night. I used to be fascinated by the dark web / dark net, but some of the stuff on there is enough to give you post traumatic stress disorder, and I still have to be careful surfing the dark net. I usually stick to political blogs where people would be very soon silenced if they tried voicing those opinions on the clearnet. Marginalized communities, whistleblowing blogs, tutorials on how to 'exit the matrix' and become independent from Big Brother, etc

</comment><comment><USER25> Doing a side project (open source) is what keeps me up at night. I don't know why, I just push hard myself at least there is one commit a day. Beside that, I think random things a lot. I always waste my night to think about it rather than plan or take an action.

I worry about my health. My sleep time is decrease. I have to wake up in the morning and then go to office. When my sleep time is not enough, I wouldn't focus. I lose my valuable time for starting my day, like exercise and meditation. I heard that would be a problem if you don't have enough sleep.

<comment><USER20> So you don't exercise ? How about swimming ? Should also help you with the sleep, from the exhaustion. Like try swimming for 1 hour uninterrupted and you'll be ripped/slept.

<comment><USER25> I don't swimming. I just walk to the office or store. That's my daily exercise. Anyway, thank you for recommending swimming to me. I want to give it a try.

<comment><USER20> I'm on my first week of swimming and am really liking it (used to kickbox + run previously). Hell you can even get water-resistant mp3-player (i did). But just walking is too little.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> I worry about getting corrupted by money and power. At first all i wanted was enough to survive. Then i found out "enough" had no physical barriers. The more money you have, the more you do to keep it or and the more you do to make more.

I worry about being 40 or 50 or 60 and having as much money as a man could dream about and yet finding no peace or having no memories. I worry about looking back to when i was 25 and all i can remember is sitting infront of a computer hitting a keyboard with all my strength and watching that time pass away, never to be regained.

<comment><USER20> Can you change to a part-time job (and then try to earn as much as possible on those 20hours/week). Any hobbies (beside computer) ?

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> I worry about my kids' ability to earn a decent living.

</comment><comment><USER28> That I will get burned out trying to pursue my passion while holding down a day job to pay the bills, and that unless I give up my passion I will never have a day job lucrative enough to live a comfortable life (savings, house, car, "essentials").

In essence, I'm afraid of having to sacrifice what makes me happy for living a comfortable life.

</comment><comment><USER29> That by the time I'm finally done with my student loan and credit card debt, something else will come around that will yet again prevent me from hitting my financial goals.

That I even accumulated $40k worth of credit card debt in the first place. This wasn't one of my proudest decisions.

That I'll never be happy with what I have and will always strive for more.

That I'll lose my fiancee/wife in the process.

<comment><USER20> What are your goals ? Everybody makes mistakes, you don't have to feel so bad for the $40k. I see that you didn't expect it from yourself, right ?

Why do you think you'll lose your wife ? Any bad habits (gamble, smoke, no exercise) ?

<comment><USER29> $10M invested in index funds within 10 years is my ultimate goal. This will enable me to essentially live my current lifestyle without needing to worry about work.

More immediately, saving up for a down payment and house fund ($30k for the down, $10k for the house fund) and an emergency nest ($30k) are what I'm looking at.

The credit card thing was interesting. I used to be pretty vigilant about keeping debt down especially with how high my student loan debt was at the time ($200k, now $48k) But then I discovered credit card churning. I tried to churn cards to collect airline miles, so I signed up for a few of them. I also used to get bonuses ($20k or so) that would pay off whatever debt I amassed in one fell swoop. Those bonuses eventually stopped coming (i left finance), but my spending didn't drop off. I also never did a good job at tracking them. (I do now and have for the last year.) One thing lead to another, and I eventually piled on $40k.

The ironic thing is that I eventually became a travelling consultant and now amass plenty of miles without even trying.

I'm afraid of working so hard that I'll neglect her.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> I worry about earthquakes (Seattle), machine learning eliminating technical support jobs, and longer term career prospects.

</comment><comment><USER31> I worry about not being brave enough to quit my day job (developer) and develop the app that I KNOW would be successful if executed properly.

Also, not being able to build a family later if I fail in my next venture. I'm 31 and feel the pressure to build a family somehow.

<comment><USER20> How many months have you saved up ? Can't you move somehow to part-time and continue doing the app on the side ?

Why no family after next venture ? A friend of mine started creating a baby at 50.

<comment><USER31> I have 6-12 months saved up. I guess I could do part time but I feel like I have to go all-in on my app for it to be a success.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> Never being able to retire.

My country turning into either a theocracy or an autocracy (or maybe both at once). Whether there's any way to stem the tide or get out before it slides any further.

Those are the big ones.

<comment><USER20> What do you do and where are you from ?

<comment><USER32> Software development; USA.

<comment><USER20> Where I'm from (AL), 200K+ (3M population) people enter a lottery every year to migrate to the USA. Like they dream of it, the american dream. You're not that bad. Maybe too much media ?

You can go to EU. Easiest country to go to (and best for english!) is NL (i went but I like more working remote in a cheap country). The wages may suck though and you won't be able to save a lot and retire early. Hell, you can go and then return back.

Do you exercise ?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> I am worried about my grades and my scholarship. I am doing a really tough courses on the Applied Mathematics degree and, currently, my grades are not really good.

<comment><USER4> Study! It's worth it! Or drop it down a level. Maybe you have too many classes going on. Work load might be too high.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> That I am an imposter and will not achieve, in personal and professional life, anything significant. I might be wasting my life.

<comment><USER20> Many people feel it:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect)

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> That I am not good enough to do the things I dream of doing.

</comment><comment><USER36> I think I am having mental breakdown.

& I don't know what to do about it!

<comment><USER27> If you're serious, get help. Get it from a counselor - it doesn't have to be a full psychologist. They should know if you need more than they can offer, and can refer you to someone who's a better fit.

<comment><USER36> I once told some one "I trust". but they just made fun of me.

<comment><USER37> It is interesting how people react when you tell them something that is not part of the script they are used to hearing. Some laugh things like this off because they are uncomfortable with what you are telling them and have no other way to deal with it other than to joke.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> Neurodegenerative disease.</comment>


Show HN: AgentMaps – Turn maps into living societies - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/noncomputable/AgentMaps <comment><AUTHOR> Last year I was simulating epidemics on my desktop and thought it'd be cool to do on a real neighborhood and share it with people.

It turned out that wasn't possible!

So for the last few months I've been working on AgentMaps to solve the problem of making accessible, map-based agent simulations.

I hope you like it, thanks for looking!

</comment><comment><USER2> It'd be neat if you could grab building vectors from OpenStreetMap.

It's pretty easy to do:

[http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/BDR](http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/BDR)

(Note that Overpass Turbo is an IDE for Overpass-API, you can directly query the api without using Turbo)

<comment><AUTHOR> I wish! Unfortunately, as far as I know, OSM building vectors aren't available for the vast majority of suburbs in the US/world, which is where I think AgentMaps would be most useful.

There's some paid services like [http://osmbuildings.org](http://osmbuildings.org) but they're just as limited... and paid!!

I also didn't want to rely on a paid provider: that's why I chose Leaflet/OSM instead of Google maps, which has polygons for buildings. I felt pretty vindicated a few months later when they (apparently) raised their prices ~1400%, though!

Microsoft did release this ([https://blogs.bing.com/maps/2018-06/microsoft- releases-125-m...](https://blogs.bing.com/maps/2018-06/microsoft- releases-125-million-building-footprints-in-the-us-as-open-data)), and I thought it'd have a lot more coverage. But their blog post makes it sound like it's already been integrated with OSM, which doesn't seem to have those hoped for polygons.

I was wary about generating houses just from the street vectors at first, and wasn't sure how I would even do it, but it ended up working out! They also made translating positions within units (like (1,1) for the back corner) convenient, which makes navigating agents around a lot easier.

So I'm less disappointed about the lack of building polys in OSM than I was at the beginning. I might say it kind of benefited me, even!

<comment><USER2> I was thinking as an option where they do happen to exist. Then if someone wanted to use real buildings they could add them to OSM.

The MS buildings haven't been merged yet.

<comment><AUTHOR> Where do you track the progress of this MS-OSM project?

And that sounds like a good idea. If I don't do it soon, feel free to implement it as an extension and I'll link to it from the AgentMaps repo!

<comment><USER2> I don't think there is a good spot to watch just yet.

There will be traffic on [https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports](https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports) and some pages on the OpenStreetMap wiki at some point.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Have you investigated avenues for using it with python as a library ?

<comment><AUTHOR> I wanted to make it as accessible to use as possible, and especially didn't want any download requirements other than a web browser. Maybe for better performance some of the processing could be offloaded to Python, though.</comment></comment>


How To Build A Mobile Website  - <AUTHOR> http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2010/11/03/how-to-build-a-mobile-website/ <comment><USER2> How NOT to build a mobile website:

When I click a direct link to an article on my phone, just redirect me (without prompting) to your mobile home page because you are too lazy to remember the article I wanted to read.

Bonus points if your mobile site is actually hosted on another domain (and, presumably handled by a 3rd party).

I guess you just don't want my mobile traffic then?

<comment><USER3> JavaScript based redirects to a mobile version are annoying also, because they seem break the back button in mobile browsers. When I hit back, it goes back to the page that redirected me, and I end up right back at the place I don't want to be anymore. I hate Wikipedia's mobile browsing because of this.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> One thing I didn't see covered in the "User Initiated Method" section is detecting mobile browsers, and prompting the user to choose between the full site and the mobile site. I like this method, since most of the time, the detection will probably work, and thus users will be made aware that there is a mobile version, whereas they might miss a small link in the header or footer (even moreso on a small mobile screen). Additionally, it still allows choosing for those mobile users who wish to view the full site (or desktop users who wish to view the mobile site), and you can still have the "view mobile site" link on the full site for the users who were somehow missed by the browser detection method. IMO, this is the best combination of automagically changing things and allowing the user to choose. ESPN.com is a good example of using this method.

<comment><USER5> I do this for one of my webapps. I detect based on the user agent, and just pass off to different templates (I'm using django). So it doesn't really matter what url you use, it just matters what device.

I also have an 'm' subdomain that automatically goes to the mobile version.

I stayed away from the prompt, because mobile browsers are really terrible, and dialogs are that much more terrible.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Like most Smashing Magazine articles, this is good advice overall but gets some details wrong.

They recommend using display: none on images to reduce bandwidth. Except browsers still load images which are set to display: none.

<comment><USER7> I think my problem with development articles on Smashing Magazine is that they most often tend to be "good advice" and a little thin on content.

While a lot of the information in that article is relevant/important from a foundational aspect, it only scratches the surface of mobile development.

Additionally - to barely mention mobile frameworks like jqTouch, jQuery Mobile, & Sencha Touch under a section called "Special iPhone / iPad Enhancements" is not only misleading (WebKit is also on Android, hello) but , if expanded on, could have been the most helpful part of that article for someone who really wants to learn about mobile development.

The conclusion of the article talks about the infancy of mobile and how standards are emerging. I would argue that frameworks like the ones above can help drive mobile standards and also enable developers to build applications within the mobile space with confidence.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I wish they took in consideration in the first chart the percentage of users of those platforms who actually surf the web with their phone.

<comment><USER9> They do address this later: "With a market share of 28% and estimates of as much as 50% of mobile browsing going through iPhone, it makes sense that developers make special accommodations for the mobile giant."

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Speaking of mobile design. Anyone here experienced with converting static websites to mobile-friendly sites? I have a few paid projects to do this and it's been hard finding a good contracter in this space. If interested, please email me. My email's in my profile.

<comment><USER11> My startup ( <http://www.gmbhnews.net> ) offers a solution for dynamic sites at this point. We are working to find a way to offer the same service for static sites and have this on our developpment roadmap.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Symbian's share seems suspiciously small. Maybe it's US only or something like that.

<comment><USER13> When I owned a Symbian phone I did use it to browse the web but I used Opera Mini. The symbian browser was pitifully slow and awkward. That might also account for the small percentage.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> How to build a mobile website: 1.) Open website in a mobile browser.</comment>


Petition to open source Flash and Shockwave spec - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/open-source-flash/open-source-flash <comment><USER2> The file format spec is available:

[https://www.adobe.com/devnet/swf.html](https://www.adobe.com/devnet/swf.html)

I know it isn't the same as "Open Sourcing" the Flash Player code, but it is how many programs--Camtasia as one example--have/had an "export to Flash" option.

<comment><AUTHOR> There's still the Shockwave one (Macromedia Shockwave, not "Shockwave" Flash) that's still undocumented by Adobe.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Plenty of the web including HTML and JS own advances can be traced back to some of the amazing things we did with Flash and Shockwave. It would be wonderful if we could build tools to still be able to view archives of Shockwave and Flash with JS. This would only be possible with an open spec.

</comment><comment><USER3> This is a good lesson: the more we encode our history in proprietary formats, the more we stand to lose.

<comment><AUTHOR> Indeed, thankfully with projects creating open document formats, Microsoft has added support for such formats to Microsoft Office over the years. Surprised the more open formats have not yet won. I wish Microsoft would just tell the world, okay we're going to work with the open source community to improve these open document formats and make the world a better place. Would be nice to have collections of documents that can just be saved in openly defined formats instead of ".doc" or ".docx" or even a PDF.</comment></comment>


Show HN: Pesky Adblock – Blocks site access to visitors without an adblocker - <AUTHOR> https://gitgud.io/billyo/Pesky-Adblock <comment><USER2> This is overkill. If you are asuming adblockers will remove anything with the id "adTeaser" (as per the code), just use that to display the message! No need for the "setTimeout" or even Javascript:

          Please turn on your ad blocker to continue browsing this site

<comment><USER3> This would still show the rest of the page though. The JavaScript solution hides everything else by setting document.body.innerHTML.

<comment><USER2> Sure, my mistake. Flip that "position:absolute" for "position:fixed". Note how I wrote "z-index:..." to imply an element covering the whole page.

Also note that activating your adblock does not disable the message in the OP, you'd also need to refresh the page since you are effectively removing the body.

<comment><AUTHOR> Do any adblockers block content before the page is reloaded? I thought it'd be necessary to do network filtering.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Current options:

1) Allow ads.

2) Block ads. (ea. uBlock Origin)

3) Block ad blocking users. (Javascript)

4) Block the block for ad blocking users. (Userscripts)

5) Block users who don't block ads. (Pesky Adblock)

The only one missing is blocking the blockade for blocking users who don't block ads.

<comment><USER5> There's another one:

Block ads AND block sites who don't block users who block ads BUT don't block the block for ad blocking users. (about:blank)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> So if I use a standards-compliant browser, I won't be able to see a site that uses this. So I guess I just won't. I also don't visit sites that run annoying ads. Congratulations on being annoying and not even getting money for it I guess.

<comment><AUTHOR> > So if I use a standards-compliant browser, I won't be able to see a site > that uses this.

Yes, that is the point.

It is designed specifically to exclude people not using an adblocker.

<comment><USER6> Maybe this is art, in which case, fair play. But otherwise it seems like a pointless purpose.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Made something similar a while ago. It probably needs some tuning: [https://kyledrake.net/adblockbar/](https://kyledrake.net/adblockbar/)

<comment><AUTHOR> Nice. Don't know how I feel about whether or not the script loads determining if you have adblock. Does mean you can't change the filename.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Isn't it hypocritical to annoy people into doing what _you_ want them to do?

<comment><USER9> If someone decides against using an ad blocker, they can't mind being annoyed that much.

<comment><USER10> I don't use an adblocker because I don't like feeling like I'm taking something I'm not entitled to.

I don't like most of the ads I see, but I understand why they're there and that they're the reason why I don't have to get out my credit card to visit the sites I like.

Edit: Didn't realize that not being offended by ads was such a controversial opinion here.

<comment><USER11> that's interesting, i do use an adblocker because i don't like companies with business models oriented on surveillance and building profiles of my behavior across the internet that they're not entitled to

<comment><USER10> So it's OK to take the product of a business if you don't like their business model? Why not just avoid visiting the sites you find so distasteful?

<comment><USER12> What contract did I sign agreeing to let ad companies access my eyeballs, let alone surveil me, in exchange for looking at a webpage? If they want to block me, they're welcome to (or at least welcome to try), but I will cry zero tears over their lost spying opportunities.

<comment><USER8> When you order food at a restaurant, there's no contract either. Just an implicit understanding by the restaurant owner and society that you'll pay at the end.

<comment><USER13> No, it is a contract. There are prices on the menu, and you are agreeing to that price when you ask for the item. Not all contracts need to be signed, but they have to be somehow agreed to.

<comment><USER8> Every website you visit has TOS. Facebook in particular has extremely clear TOS, written in plain English, that everyone consents to. In Europe, most websites explicitly ask for consent now. Doesn't seem very different to me.

<comment><USER14> And all of those sites track you before you've even had a chance to see their terms.

Facebook infamously tracked people who'd never had Facebook accounts (and therefore had never agreed to Facebook's ToS), and now claims not to, but who knows?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> This feels like a house of mirrors.

</comment><comment><USER16> The adblocker I use is not visiting websites with annoying ads (much). High quality websites tend to not have them.

<comment><USER17> what websites of the highest quality do you visit that are light on ads?

<comment><USER18> Wikipedia, Hacker News, Stack Overflow and maybe The Economist come to my mind.

(Been planning for a while to set up my work laptop to access only a whitelisted set of domains to avoid 1. Procastrination and 2. ads & tracking.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> This is a good weapon against the "overfluxing" Internet advertisement. Appreciate it.

</comment><comment><USER20> Why am I not using custom AdBlock filters to block pesky social media users? I need to go write a bunch of Mastodon filters now.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I don't know if linking to ublock origin specifically, is the right call. I just did it because I prefer it, and I had to link to something. (otherwise it kind of screws non-technical people)

Hopefully ublock lasts longer than this script does.

</comment><comment><USER21> I'll admit this is funny, but....

I'm always curious what people are against ads would like the web to be. Paywalls everywhere? Micropayments?

<comment><USER22> The cat who left the bag is probably dead by now, but i'd like most of the commercial aspect of the web to simply go away with the exception of paid services that i actually seek myself (e.g. i'm fine with the web allowing me to go to an eshop or egrocery to buy stuff, to a hosting provider to rent a server, to a game developer/publisher to buy games, etc). I'd also be fine with buying "magazines" in the form of ebooks (no annoying DRM though), be it per-issue or a subscription, assuming of course the content quality is better than what people would put out for free on their own time (but TBH i expect people would put out quality content for free anyway). I know some would say that this has been tried and it doesn't work, but this isn't really the case because it hasn't been tried in an Internet without alternatives so we don't really know how it'd pan out.

I do not expect any of this to ever happen.

<comment><USER21> Yeah well I guess I'm not too excited about ideas which expect elimination of alternatives.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> This is the hero the web deserves. A web free of advertising and advertisers is a web free of for-profit privacy violations as a service.

<comment><USER24> Now it becomes a cat/mouse game of for-profit privacy violations as a service, where individuals (like OP) are pitted against super rich companies. A more robust solution is probably required here.

<comment><USER25> I wonder if one could mess with programmatic-ad auctions by introducing infinite loops. Not from user space browsers, of course.</comment></comment></comment>


5 Common Turkey Setups for Your Dinner - <AUTHOR> https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/5-common-turkey-setups-for-your-dinner <comment><USER2> I'm a fan of the nested poultry approach to scalability. The Turducken setup as described in _Advanced Festive Food Editing_ by Fritjof Dogemann provides excellent carbohydrate-to-weight ratio and its uncommon architecture frequently amazes clients. The high cost and complexity are drawbacks I'll admit to, but can be mitigated by going for SaaS (Slaughter as a Service) models.</comment>


Firebase Adds PhoneGap Integration - <AUTHOR> http://phonegap.com/blog/2013/04/16/firebase-phonegap-integration/

<comment><USER2> Is this dark magic? :) How does it do oauth without a domain? If you build an apk for Android how does the authentication step grant your app an oauth token?

Does it use a shared firebase server to grant access? If so, how is that secure between unrelated firebase apps?

I tried the demo but it didn't work when running file://.../index.html. The login buttons did nothing.

<comment><USER2> I guess it would use a provided intermediate server like the one Facebook offers: [https://developers.facebook.com/docs/howtos/login/login- for-...](https://developers.facebook.com/docs/howtos/login/login-for-desktop/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> couldn't this be done in the first place already?

I thought firebase supported html5 a long time ago.

Is it the websocket part that couldn't be ported to Phonegap?

<comment><USER4> While Firebase largely worked in PhoneGap prior to the latest releases, there were a few outstanding bugs specific to PhoneGap deployments that required special handling or attention, though websockets were not directly affected. As a sample, we had some previous errors around long-polling and creating iframes (used as a fallback when websockets fail) in PhoneGap, and most notably Firebase Simple Login was entirely unsupported in PhoneGap applications until this latest release.</comment></comment>


Banjo suspends state surveillance contracts after report details founder's white - <AUTHOR> https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/30/banjo-damien-patton-kkk-utah/ <comment><USER2> > founder's white

I read it as the contraction for "founder is white". Headline is cut off.</comment>