Rejection massively reduces IQ  - <AUTHOR> http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2051 <comment><USER2> Wouldn't it be more accurate to say "rejection reduces short-term performance"? It makes sense that someone who has just been rejected would have a hard time focusing on an immediate task- their brain is still stuck trying to understand and ameliorate the rejection.

My question is, what are the long-term effects of a single rejection? Or even the effect of multiple episodes of rejection which aren't due to being poor or some other variable? I can think of many people who face a lot of rejection but thrive anyway, sometimes even _because_ of rejection (i.e. they become more experienced, or they use rejection to motivate themselves). Entrepreneurs, for example.

</comment><comment><USER3> The original paper is behind a paywall but I found the 4-page article "Rejected and alone" by Roy Baumeister -- one of the researchers -- to be an interesting read.

[http://www.thepsychologist.org.uk/archive/archive_home.cfm/v...](http://www.thepsychologist.org.uk/archive/archive_home.cfm/volumeID_18-editionID_130-ArticleID_960-getfile_getPDF/thepsychologist%5C1205baum.pdf)

* Rejection affects behavior, but has generally no or little effect on emotion: "Thus, social exclusion does have powerful effects on people, but these effects do not depend on emotional distress. This has been something of a shock to many of us and has even led us to question some widely held assumptions about the purpose of emotion and its relationship to behaviour."

* Social exclusion results in a higher pain threshold and a higher tolerance for pain. "Further studies indicated that the numbness to physical pain can explain the emotional numbness that we had observed over and over."

<comment><USER4> Thank you! I was really disappointed with the comments here - mostly mindless IQ bashing. The real revolution in psychology is happening right now, and I fear the people who should be most interested and in a position to benefit the most are exactly the ones who'll ignore it as more freudian bullshit.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> The idea of IQ, or intelligence quotient, was originally formulated as measure of a person's innate intelligence. It was supposed to be something you were born with, and not something that would change with the environment. This is just the latest study that shows that IQ is, in fact, sensitive to one's environment, and can change. I hope people will someday learn to avoid taking IQ tests as these unquestionable measures of how smart someone is, or ever will be.

<comment><USER3> _"Test-Score-Differences Fallacy 1: Nonfixedness Proves Malleability

This fallacy uses evidence of any fluctuation or growth in the mental functioning of individuals as if it were proof that their rates of growth can be changed intentionally. IQ level is not made malleable by any means yet devised (Brody, 1996), ..."_

\- Linda Gottfredson, Logical fallacies used to dismiss the evidence on intelligence testing [http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/2009fallacies....](http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/2009fallacies.pdf) (PDF page 24)

<comment><USER6> So you are saying that iodine deficiency does not cause a decrease in IQ?

<comment><USER7> The traditional view is similar to IQ as an empty glass. You can fill it up to the top, but once you're there, you've maxed out on IQ itself. Different people have differently sized glasses, and there are many things that clearly affect the rate or amount of fill, just as there are many things that affect height. However, there are few things that indicate that they are increasing the potential IQ.

Losing a tire in my car won't make me lose any horsepower, but it's not going to be the same ride.

<comment><USER8> _The traditional view is similar to IQ as an empty glass._

Actually, the view of behavioral geneticists, including those with whom I have a weekly discussion of current research,

[http://www.psych.umn.edu/courses/fall09/mcguem/psy8935/defau...](http://www.psych.umn.edu/courses/fall09/mcguem/psy8935/default.htm)

is that each individual has a "reaction surface," a range of possible behavioral responses genetically endowed for that individual depending on what environmental influences that individual encounters. NO ONE active in the field of behavorial genetics claims to have proved that many individuals today have maxed out their potential for intelligent behavior. There may be (as yet unknown) interventions that could massively change IQ at the individual level.

<comment><USER9> No one has proved that technology won't one day make everyone grow to 6 feet and live 200 years. In fact that could quite plausibly happen. But you'd still be a fool to count on it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> The core part of the article:

 _"To live in society, people have to have an inner mechanism that regulates their behaviour. Rejection defeats the purpose of this, and people become impulsive and self-destructive. [..]"_

I'm going to go along with this. I'd say it's part of the reason teen crime is sky high in the UK right now. We've failed to interact as local communities in the last 10-15 years and we're paying the price in people being selfish and aggressive seeking only their own ends (teenagers don't beat up 2 year old kids in healthy communities - <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8348130.stm>)

<comment><USER11> You know, I have to say that London was the most violent place I've ever been. 9 out of 10 times that I'd go out in the city, there were muggings, very aggressive fights, people thrown out of bars, guys running into the street kicking cars right in front of the cops, buses that smelled and left one feeling tense and threatened.

And this wasn't just at night. At three in the afternoon, I saw a bar brawl flow out onto the street.

On one of my trips to Amsterdam, a local commented on how aggressive the brits were who would visit for stag parties, get drunk and start fights.

There really is something unhealthy going on there. It's worrisome really. There were lots of articles at the time about the youths. I can't remember what they called them, some kind of acronym. YAGs or something like that. It's a real tragedy.

<comment><USER8> _I have to say that London was the most violent place I've ever been._

As a point of comparison, have you ever been anywhere in China? That's where I have seen the most open public violence, much more so than in any part of the United States (I have been to all fifty states, including some very tough parts of inner cities.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Great... so every time you guys down-vote me I get stupider.

Edit: fixed grammar after being upvoted.

<comment><USER13> Great, so every time I apply to YC I'm getting stupider.

<comment><USER14> Remember, correlation does not imply causation! (jk) Maybe this is why sales guys are the way they are? Again, correlation doesn't imply causation.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I hypothize that the counter - control mechanism that they claim absent is actually depression. You are rejected, you then either become aggressive or fall into a depression which has been shown to cause dwelling on issues and analying a problem endlessly, hopefuly allowing a solution to be found.

<comment><USER11> That's what I suspected too. The thoughts of rejection occupy brainwaves that are otherwise spent thinking about and answering questions correctly.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> I just finished reading "How We Decide" by Jonah Lehrer. It discusses a number of similar experiments where scientists observe what parts of the brain are activated during different types of situations. According to some experiments dealing with feelings seems to draw resources away from the part of the brain used to solve problems that require analytical thought.

A similar experiment involved having people perform analytical tasks while being exposed to situations that require self-restraint. The harder the tasks, the less people are able to resist temptation.

</comment><comment><USER17> IQ tests come with a lot of social and cultural bias. So, for example, immigrants tend to do more poorly and members of an outclass tend to do more poorly (for example, historically this meant Black Americans tended to test poorly). I would think one thing going on here is a kind of harm to the social orientation of the test-taker. If everyone "hates" you, what's your motivation for being "agreeable"? And if your answers stop "agreeing" with what is socially valued, your test score can be hurt.

Does this mean you are dumber? Not necessarily. It's common for extremely intelligent children to test poorly because they are unable to gear their answers towards the test's expectations. One simple example: A child may fail to classify the picture of a "whale" as a "W" word because they know the type of whale it is (such as "Blue Whale") and aren't sophisticated enough to know that the test makes the assumption that children of a certain age won't have such specific information. A very socially savvy child may do better on such a test than a child whose interests are more "technical" (so to speak). Anecdotally, very socially savvy and socially oriented kids of high IQ often do a wonderful job of hiding how smart they are in order to fit in better. They may routinely shoot for roughly average even though they may be capable of substantially better performance than all their classmates. If no one likes you or accepts you and there is no fixing that, why bother? And if not bothering means you classify the "blue whale" as a B word instead of a W word because you feel that is more accurate and precise, your score may suffer.

<comment><USER6> "It's common for extremely intelligent children to test poorly because they are unable to gear their answers towards the tests expectations."

That's so weird. I distinctly remember this happening to me in third grade, but I never knew that it was an established phenomenon.

<comment><USER17> I know that from participating on email lists for many years. I don't know how much of that type of information is in the standard literature. Tests are only a tool. The conclusions drawn from them are only as wise as the person(s) administering and interpreting them.

<comment><USER8> _I don't know how much of that type of information is in the standard literature._

There is a HUGE standard literature on IQ testing. What email lists are you talking about? My experience after reading much of the scholarly literature on IQ testing is that most participants on email lists about IQ testing never visit academic libraries and never seem to change their default Google searching over to Google Scholar or Google Books where they might have a chance to sift through the online chaff to find some grains of careful research.

<comment><USER6> The problem is that unless you already know the name of that specific phenomenon then Google scholar is useless.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> "15 March 2002"

Where is the follow-up on this? Has this result ever been replicated?

<http://norvig.com/experiment-design.html>

The guidelines for this site

<http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html>

which is, after all, called "Hacker NEWS," define "anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity" as on-topic, but I sure am curious if it is news to report one result from 2002 that didn't seem to result in any meaningful research follow-up. Is there any current news on this same issue?

</comment><comment><USER18> I am not sure it is evolutionarily useful to become self destructive upon rejection, I imagine rejection has always been fairly common.

I think the researchers' interpretation is very biased. I can easily imagine that the aggressive reaction is in fact useful. Perhaps not in modern high tech. society, but even in modern day we are still an aggressive species and aggression in often sexy, men with a criminal background on average have more children. And today still, aggressive behaviour is a pretty good way to gain social status in high school.

<comment><USER11> Perhaps it does have an evolutionary purpose. Say you are a male who is constantly rejected by the female. If mate with the female, perhaps even against her will, then you produce offspring.

Also, being rejected is a dominance issue. If rejected from more powerful members of the society produces aggression to the point of killing those more powerful then the aggressive individual rises to power and increases the odds of reproduction.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> I'd introduce another perspective on rejection: having a rejective state of mind significantly reduces one's ability to analyse the situation at hand.

It's about prejudices. We all hold a large amount of prejudices even though we would consider our selves open minded. Prejudices result in cognitive responses where one rejects an idea at hand before one even starts to evaluate the pros and cons of the idea.

</comment><comment><USER20> Interesting ramifications for the startup that's struggling to make sales. Extrapolating on this finding might indicate that a startup that meets early failure is more less doomed to failure since those failures pile on one another and basically make them dumb and mean.

<comment><USER17> My read on it is that it only measured a short-term reduction in performance. I saw no indication that it suggests long-term consequences from a single instance of rejection. Some people are inherently more likely to be bitter, grudging, etc and hold onto such negative feelings. Other people are more inclined to get over it and move on. Bill Gates has said that your unhappiest customers are your best source of learning. Some people are inclined to view negative feedback as useful information and not wallow in a negative emotional reaction to it. This behavior can be learned to some degree.

I would think that part of why the examples cited in the article resulted in negative reactions is because it was not constructive feedback: The artificially induced feeling of rejection apparently was delivered with zero feedback as to why they were being rejected. Some real life situations are like that. But other real life situations hold a great deal of information about why people are rejecting something. Anyone who wants to be an entrepreneur would be well advised to learn to view negative responses as "constructive feedback" and not take it too personally. Most sources I have seen indicate that entrepreneurs typically experience a lot of rejection (and failure) prior to achieving success.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Correlation is not causation. It's a logical fallacy to state that "rejection reduces IQ" on learning that rejection correlates with a decreased ability to get high scores on IQ tests.

<comment><USER8> The study purported to have an experimental design.

<http://norvig.com/experiment-design.html>

It would, however, be a good idea to attempt to replicate this finding.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Is this post is a response to Y-Combinator rejections? :) It's a bit pity we've been rejected. But it did not made us angry or less intelligent. (As far as I know :))

</comment><comment><USER23> _This just in: Being aggrevated hurts when taking tests!_

Seriously, what did the researchers expect? That frustration wouldn't affect people's focus?

<comment><USER24> Yeah, it seems to me fairly obvious that if someone implied before a test that I would fail, and I had cause to trust their opinion, I'm not likely to do as well as I would have because of the nagging self doubt etc. No change on my innate ability to do the test, but the level of application and focus would be drastically different.

(On the other hand it can go far enough as to improve focus, sometimes. "I'll show them", "I failed last time but I know I can do it", etc)

<comment><USER11> I don't know why you guys got downmodded. I agree with both. The article is pretty bad and neglects a very common sense approach to thinking.

I see little evidence that it actually reduces someone's intelligence. Maybe their test results acutely, but I highly doubt it makes someone dumber.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> This is just another drop in my bucket of suspicions about aspects of creativity and intelligence. Stress free and confident individuals tend to be more creative and intelligent than those that are constantly angry and stressed out.

</comment><comment><USER26> So IQ is based on emotions? That doesn't sound right.

</comment><comment><USER27> Working for _New Scientist_ massively reduces the capacity for critical thinking.</comment>


30M out of 54M caught in South Africa's worst data breach - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-41696703 <comment><USER2> >The information contained in a 27GB file was discovered by Australia-based internet security expert _Tony [sic]_ Hunt earlier this week.

 _Troy_ :

[https://www.troyhunt.com/questions-about-the-massive- south-a...](https://www.troyhunt.com/questions-about-the-massive-south- african-master-deeds-data-breach-answered/)</comment>


Why most of London's tech sector believes Brexit will prove a disaster - <AUTHOR> https://techcrunch.com/2016/06/16/why-most-of-londons-tech-sector-believes-brexit-will-prove-a-disaster/ <comment><USER2> I have to confess, I am hoping for Brexit vote due to perverse curiosity:will my imaginary scenarios[1]/ what-ifs /predictions of doom will pan-out?[2] I also can't wait to find out what the biggest unintended consequence will be.

1\. First prediction: Scotland leaving the union would be effectively set in stone.

2.See also: Trump presidency. 2017 might be a _hell_ of a ride :) Good luck to both sides of the pond!

</comment><comment><USER3> The article uses a rather limited definition of 'tech'.</comment>


Zero to Kubernetes on Azure - <AUTHOR> https://idursun.com/posts/zero_to_kubernetes/ <comment><USER2> This is great for the dev flow of getting up and running on Azure. When you are ready to do something in production on Azure, you should also have a look at this project [https://github.com/Microsoft/bedrock](https://github.com/Microsoft/bedrock), which provides a model for operationalizing a Kubernetes cluster with a GitOps workflow.

</comment><comment><USER3> This looks like a great article and not highly specific to Azure. It is a tutorial for Azure AKS, sure, but while you do use AKS for the cluster management and Azure services for a few things like DNS, you've taken us all the way through installing nginx-ingress and are not using or even mention the ingress addon from Azure.

I don't mean this as critical feedback! I love the article and will go over it reading in a bit more detail later, but that one thing I noticed off the top of my head made me want to ask why not use the provided nginx-ingress addon?

(I can think of a few reasons why myself, but if you are OP, I thought it might be better to ask why _you_ did this rather than just throwing in my own $0.02.)

<comment><USER4> Hi, I am the author.

Thanks for pointing out the Azure's nginx-ingress add-on. The reason why I haven't mentioned it in the article is simply because I didn't know about it. I also haven't seen it used or mentioned in the articles published by Microsoft.

This article was the artefact of my personal effort of trying to understand what are the moving parts of a k8s cluster and what tools are used in what ways.

I am sure there are better/different ways of achieving the same and I am happy to hear all!

<comment><USER3> I will say that once in my whole time using AKS, the nginx-ingress addon failed me in a way that caused my cluster to stop serving traffic.

I contacted my friend at Azure (my cluster is not high-stakes production) and learned that they were aware of the issue and had engineers already on the case.

I figured it out on my own before the Azure team resolved the issue globally, there were some versions out of sync. And when I applied the fix to my own cluster, the ingress addon... put it back, breaking my traffic serving again.

The fix would have been to install nginx-ingress manually and point my DNS at the LB belonging to my manually configured ingress. I just waited for them to get it solved instead. Meanwhile my cluster was not serving ingresses.

That may (hopefully) never happen again, but the moral of the story is, one good reason to configure ingress yourself is that when it breaks, you can also fix it for yourself.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I prefer aks engine to aks. [https://github.com/Azure/aks- engine](https://github.com/Azure/aks-engine)

\- Azure control nodes have problems all the time, running my own is easy \- With aka engine multiple nodepool support is easy and not a "preview" \- we use low priority nodes and those are not supported in stock aks, and it won't probably for a year

</comment><comment><USER6> I'm curious why the author used AKS. From my experience, I noticed that is the slowest to provision. I have personally experienced etcd nodes becoming unhealthy in lightweight test clusters which concern me with using AKS in production. Is AKS becoming the more popular of the three hosted k8s offerings?

<comment><USER7> Running AKS from even late 2018 is completely different than running it now. They have been making strides in provisioning and it is more than stable enough to run AKS clusters in production. Provisioning an AKS cluster in Nov 2018 would sometimes take up to 45minutes/1hour or end up in an error'd state. By the time Kubecon rolled around (a month later, Dec 2018) AKS clusters were taking between 4~6 minutes to provision on average. Compared to EKS, it is definitely a more automated way of provisioning a K8s cluster (workers provisioned for you) and definitely takes less time to provision (EKS takes roughly 12~15min).</comment></comment>


Google Executive: No Time to Build, So We Buy - <AUTHOR> http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/07/google-executive-no-time-to-build-so-we-buy/?ref=technology

<comment><USER2> You wonder when the first time an executive at Cisco said this. 10-15 years later, the company seems almost incapable of building _anything_ , except for new Cisco-looking bezels for the products they've acquired. If you're an engineer at Cisco and you get an MRD --- not even for a new product, but simply for version 3.0 of something already shipping --- the rational move to make is to go start a company to build it. After all, even if you kick ass and kill yourself to built it internally, they'll still buy someone else; after all, "someone else" comes with customers attached already.

Then again, who's to say that's a bad thing? Cisco steamrolls over its competition; entrepreneurial devs get multiple bites at a $5-$25MM apple; new products get shipped. I'm not being sarcastic: the strategy works.

Takes a bit of the fun out of it for Googlers, though.

<comment><USER3> 10 years ago I was out drinking at a bar in Santa Cruz with a marketing rep for Cisco who asked us what our thoughts were about the company as regards to other technology companies.

I told her that I didn't really think of Cisco as a technology company, but as an acquisition company; which she was really surprised to hear.

Even then it was pretty apparent that they weren't doing very much in-house (and it's gotten even worse since then).

Which is sort of a shame, as back in my network engineer days I dreamed about working there on IOS.

<comment><USER2> I know people who washed into Cisco in acquisitions who _multiple times_ left to start companies marketing remarkably specific and incremental improvements to existing Cisco products; almost as bad as, "here's the company I started to provide _this specific report_ for the Cisco 4371GX†". I'm not kidding about the MRD thing; if you're an entrepreneur and a developer, I think they might be tradeable information.

I've never worked at Cisco and I have no negative opinions of them or their products. Like I said, the strategy seems to work.

I just wonder whether Google's culture is ready for the terminus of this slippery slope.

Remember what they used to say about Microsoft in the late '90s? How it wasn't a good idea to make fun of their 1.0 products, because the one thing they were going to be good at was refining them and refining them and refining them until they took over the market? Who still does that anymore?

† _Made up_

<comment><USER4> >I know people who washed into Cisco in acquisitions who multiple times left to start companies marketing remarkably specific and incremental improvements to existing Cisco products

When you put it that way, it actually sounds like a wonderful (for Cisco) way to outsource the risk of innovation by offering to pay a premium for good ideas that are well executed.

<comment><USER2> It probably is. But it's probably not compatible with the engineering culture at Google.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> It's kinda hard to talk about all acquisitions equally. Take Android for example: founded in 2003, acquired in by Google in 2005 and launched in 2008 (launched widely in 2009). I would call it both a successful acquisition and a successful Google product.

Groupon, OTOH, seemed like a wholly different thing - they already had a big name, lots of customers and independent identity. Seems like google wanted to buy them to move into a whole new area, rather than building them slowly into the company like Maps, Android, Docs etc

</comment><comment> brown9-2 It seems too easy to interpret these statements to mean that Google would rather buy a company than build a new product.

From reading the actual quotes, seems like the executive was speaking very specifically about entering into a whole new line of business like acquiring Groupon would have represented.</comment>


Scary video shows Tesla bursting into flames - <AUTHOR> https://twitter.com/gma/status/1160878944398135296 <comment><USER2> [https://evcompare.io/blog/this-is-a-security-camera-video- of...](https://evcompare.io/blog/this-is-a-security-camera-video-of-the-tesla- model-3-crash-in-moscow-russia-on-10-08-2019/)</comment>


Ask HN: What's your favorite GitHub-enabled kanban board? - <AUTHOR> A quick search shows several competitors in the space, but it's not immediately clear what the key differentiators are. The all have GitHub issue integration, i.e. there's a 1:1 mapping between moving a card to done and closing an issue.  Are there other features people have found valuable that exist in one vs. another? <comment><USER2> I've tried:

* HuBoard ([https://huboard.com/](https://huboard.com/))

* Waffle.io ([https://waffle.io/](https://waffle.io/))

* SweepBoard ([http://sweepboard.com/](http://sweepboard.com/))

* ZenHub.io ([https://www.zenhub.io/](https://www.zenhub.io/))

but I'm not using any of them. There was one more, but can't recall it. I will add it here when I remember what it was.

Edit: Found it, although it's a Chrome Extension.

Edit 2: I missed:

* TaskTub ([http://tasktub.com/](http://tasktub.com/))

and just found:

* Blossom.io ([https://www.blossom.io/](https://www.blossom.io/))

* Gitban ([http://www.gitban.com/](http://www.gitban.com/)) - looks good, but like a work-in-progress demo/MVP

<comment><AUTHOR> Blossom looked pretty good, but wasn't sure about if it might be too feature heavy and cause too much time bring spent on the tool rather than work.

<comment><USER2> Agreed. I wish Gitban was more than a demo as it looks pretty clean and simple.

<comment><AUTHOR> Waffle.io looked good, but maybe too simple. I will probably start there and see if there are any missing pieces...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Trello + Zapier

[https://zapier.com/zapbook/github/trello/](https://zapier.com/zapbook/github/trello/)

Works like a charm.

</comment><comment><USER4> Kanbanery, native GitHub integration as well as Zapier.

</comment><comment><USER5> Could you list some of the ones you've looked at?

<comment><AUTHOR> Sorry, was trying to avoid biasing the results. Looked at waffle.io, zenhub, huboard, blossom.io... Some others. Google kanban github and a bunch come up.</comment></comment>


Bus Factor - <AUTHOR> https://conrjac.wordpress.com/2015/08/11/bus-factor/

<comment><AUTHOR> I hope you enjoy the post :) Please comment on the post with any suggestions.</comment>


Ask HN: Solving a founder dispute in a successful bootstrapped startup? - <AUTHOR>

I bootstrapped a startup in a very current and attractive field. We have a leading hardware product with a major edge and lots of technology, repeat customers, amazing reviews and cooperation opportunities from very significant companies lined up. We sell high $xx,000 a month at the moment, after a very short time on the market. The venture was primarily developed by me, with a cofounder which worked on this part time while keeping his day job (he's a minority shareholder). We've hired some brilliant people, we're financially balanced and we've still taken no external investment. I'm very proud of what we've achieved.
Recently I've had some harsh arguments with my cofounder, which, to put it mildly, revolve around our differing perceptions of reality. These arguments got to a personal level and I have absolutely no doubt that our vectors are on a major collision course that will end in tears.
This situation has to be resolved immediately, without bringing the company down and as amicably and on the best terms possible.
The only way forward that I see is to bring in an external investment, which will buy his shares for an appealing sum and he'll be out of the company. We held off getting an investment until we have a product and revenue, which we do now. Ideally I'd wait a bit more (our second product is going to be a heavy hitter), but this situation calls for an immediate action before the stakes become even higher.
What are your thoughts on this situation? Have you seen similar situations resolved without destroying the entire company? What would investors think of this? Any special structuring we should do?
Building this business has been such a crazy uphill battle, and now this. I should be working on the product now, and not dealing with this crap. Ugh. It really stresses me. At least I feel better sharing this here. If someone wants to take this discussion private, then mail me at email@example.com <comment><USER2> What's your company structure? Are you actually incorporated? Do you have an operating agreement in place? Does your partner vest? There's paperwork to that effect?

</comment><comment><USER3> At your stage investors generally want their money to stay in the company and be used to help it grow, not be immediately taken off the table.

How big is the share? People with minority stakes are asked to leave all of the time. He can keep his shares, he just can't be part of the company any more (talk to a lawyer).

</comment><comment><USER4> The only way you can resolve this is by talking to your cofounder and figuring out what he or she wants. Do you have any paper in place to describe what happens in these types of situations?</comment>


Air-gap bypass techniques using smart electromagnetic interferences [pdf] - <AUTHOR> https://www.botconf.eu/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/OK-P17-Chaouki-Kasmi-Jose-Lopes-Esteves-Philippe-Valembois-Air-Gap-Command-Control-IEMI.pdf <comment><USER2> I'm (probably) not the target of such high level attacks, but I can understand the Russian general that wanted to go back to mechanical typewriters after the Snowden revelations.</comment>


Show HN: Docker Build Volumes - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/moby/buildkit/blob/master/frontend/dockerfile/docs/experimental.md <comment><AUTHOR> I know this isn't new information, but lately I've seen a lot of people here lamenting the lack of Build Volume support in Docker, when it's been supported since Feb 2019 (albeit "experimentally").

Hopefully this can help a few of you speed up your build pipelines.</comment>


Jerry Lewis has died - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/20/movies/jerry-lewis-dead-celebrated-comedian-and-filmmaker.html <comment><USER2> Sadly those writing about his 60+ year legacy of publicly doing good and making people laugh, feel it necessary to point out that he wasn't always politically correct... yet fail to reiterate the obvious: he grew up in a time when handicapped people were openly mocked and no 'A' list stars were putting much effort into raising money to support their cause.

As a kid I watched the telethon year after year and thought he was a hero.

<comment><USER3> I have to say as a preemptive response, it kind of brought it to attention. Thou Seems no negative responses

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Martin & Lewis's popularity is hard to imagine today. I doubt any current artist even approaches what they had. His amazing longevity can be seen in how people were introduced to him. I was born in 70, and primarily remember him as the telethon guy, but for my parents he was a movie star, and older folks remember the act.

<comment><USER5> I was born in 1966 and loved watching his movies on TV as a kid.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Gilbert Gottfried has a podcast where he interviews older Hollywood types and Jerry comes up quite a bit. I'm sure they will do a memorial episode soon if anyone wants to hear firsthand stories.

<comment><USER7> Is he speaking in that Gilbert Gottfried voice the whole podcast long?

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Jerry Lewis and Dean Martin were so phenomenally popular and accomplished individually, that I sometimes soft-forget that Lewis and Martin were the Lewis and Martin in Lewis & Martin.

And the only thing that makes me feel older than seeing this thread, 8 hours old, with only six comments, is my joints.

</comment><comment><USER9> I just saw him in this documentary 8 hrs ago, Dying Laughing (2016) [0]

[0] [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5068712/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5068712/)

</comment><comment><USER10> Jerry's boat anchored in San Diego

[https://goo.gl/photos/UWyNtbTjYP1jxHdv7](https://goo.gl/photos/UWyNtbTjYP1jxHdv7)

</comment><comment><USER11> As someone who doesn't follow entertainment & pop culture closely, how is this related to HN?

<comment><USER12> One of more arguments: "as a filmmaker of great personal force and technical skill, he made many contributions to the industry, including the invention in 1960 of a device — the video assist, which allowed directors to review their work immediately on the set — still in common use."

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> In death, we shed who we where in live- it becomes somewhat unimportant, what matters now lives on as our family and the thoughts we put into other peoples heads - our legacy.

I will always fondly remember the anarchic errand boy, mocking the grandeur of some peacocks at meetings.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4v8UdkTx30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4v8UdkTx30)

RIP.

</comment><comment><USER14> I spent the first ten years of my life thinking he was the same guy as Jerry Lee Lewis.

<comment><USER15> I read that "first ten years" part and find it remarkable you were able to focus on that in the early parts - eg. the first year drooling all over yourself, spitting up, but still confusing Jerry and Jerry Lee ...

<comment><USER14> Hey nice laaaady! Bring me some more smushed peas. Mine fell out.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Recommended lean startup metrics - <AUTHOR>

I am looking to put together a decent list of well-known lean startup metrics.
My favourite I've heard is the 40% test: Test whether to develop your MVP further by asking if existing customers would be disappointed if you switched it off. If 40% say yes, the MVP is good.
What others have you heard? Which do you recommend? <comment><USER2> [http://www.slideshare.net/dmc500hats/startup-metrics-for- pir...](http://www.slideshare.net/dmc500hats/startup-metrics-for-pirates- aarrr-sxsw-march-2008)

<comment><AUTHOR> AARRR is more of a methodology for coming up with these stats. Thanks for posting though, this slide deck is worth a look for anybody that hasn't seen it.</comment></comment>


Cancer cure discovered, but YOU can't have it. - <AUTHOR> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LXH-TJYS5w

<comment><USER2> Not a very informative video. Better link:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichloroacetic_acid>

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> This was in 2009. What happened since then?

Suzanne summers has a book about some possible cures and doctors btw:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQicB_7KNL8>

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-aYxu4Uys0>

By the way, I have a question about free markets or whatever... should there be anything preventing big pharma companies to spend millions of dollars on suppressing a potential cure with FUD campaigns or some sort of leverage (like threatening a partnership), I mean a law preventing that kind of behavior, or no? I am honestly asking, because I think the drug industry in this country is making about $500B a year and any cure will be detrimental to the size of their market and the demand for their products, so it would seem that if they can kill off a cure it would make more $ for their shareholders...</comment>


Machine Learning Projects for the Past Year - <AUTHOR> https://medium.mybridge.co/30-amazing-machine-learning-projects-for-the-past-year-v-2018-b853b8621ac7 <comment><USER2> "To give you an idea about the quality, the average number of Github stars is 3,558."

So "highly competitive" means they picked the 30 most popular projects?

</comment><comment><USER3> Nice list. Nr. 1, FastText, was actually released in the middle of 2016 :-) The world moves fast…

Maybe they confused it with StarSpace [0], also by Facebook Research, which was indeed published in 2017?

[0] [https://github.com/facebookresearch/StarSpace](https://github.com/facebookresearch/StarSpace)</comment>


Where do you go for news when you've read all posts on the YC frontpage? - <AUTHOR>

this is my flow HN frontpage > HN new > techcrunch >venturebeat or gigaom> afterwards I find myself sort of stuck. NYT and Wired most interesting articles have already been posted on HN. Where else do u go? <comment><USER2> > _Where do u go for news when u've read all posts on the YC frontpage?_

"u"?

I guarantee that if there were some even cooler place than HN for smart people to gather, I wouldn't ruin it by telling "u"!

<comment><AUTHOR> if some1 is offended by "u" than they r clearly complicatd and taking life a bit too seriously. and besides isn't this web 2.0 where we have flickR and Youniversity I think those are more morphed than my "u"

<comment><USER3> Yeah, it's definitely an elitist thing.

<comment><USER2> HN is an elitist community, and it's that way for good reason, IMO.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> You go do some friggin' work you procrastinator!

<comment><AUTHOR> i totally agree. unfortunately this is how i earn part of my income. reading all sort of tech news, gathering the info, and use it to help clients get on the boat.

<comment><USER5> That's fine. Please, though, write properly (i.e., capitalization and spelling). You can take the time. We are a community that would really, really prefer it.

<comment><AUTHOR> "we". I think your comment implies that you are a veteran of this community and that I am the fresh rookie who needs guidance. Well, I guess you have learned quite a lot in the last 58 days and 12 submissions to be in a position to "we" me. Seriously, I am going to try to make you happy and write properly, but in return I am hoping you will tone your expectation as far as grammar and spelling a tiny bit. Look at the design of this site, it eliminates anything not necessary, but if you must insist that I hit _shift_ about 11 times, just so you understand me no more than if I did not, then I will. Lastly since you are that upset about the capitalization I would suggest you stop looking at your _username_ because your golden rule doesn't apply there, and neither does it on the _reply_ button.

EDIT: Even the sentences in your comment are not well structured.

<comment><USER6> I think he's referring to your usage of "u". Adding four characters to your title isn't that hard, and the above poster "newbie" or not is right, I think we'd all prefer to see "you" instead of "u".

<comment><AUTHOR> I would prefer you to use a different username. i am 100% sure jkush is not your real name, but is close to it. now why don't you drink your own koolaid and not morphed words. You have done the same with your username as I have done with "u". jkush. are you serious?

<comment><USER4> Lol, you have one hell of an attitude problem.

 _downmods all posts by rokhayakebe_

<comment><AUTHOR> go ahead. be my guest. if this makes you any happier. i could give you a good 200 and still be ahead of you. frankly i can care the less i am not running a popularity contest, i think that is what makes the difference between YC and other communities. you can downmod all day, i can really care the less. what do you think will happen if i ask 10 people to go and downmod you all day. i outsource by trade, so believe it, when i say you will end up with 0 karma points in less than 57 minutes.

<comment><USER7> Stop filling up the comment threads with this crap.

<comment><AUTHOR> What crap? Defending my position is nothing crappy at all. Some users being offending by punctuation is crappy. Like we are in a beauty pageant.This user is talking about downmoding all my previous posts that have nothing to do with this one. What is crappier then that? Disappointing.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Frankly, I never read all the stories on the YC front page. If I did I'd consider it a bad sign that I was procrastinating.

<comment><AUTHOR> Figurative speech. I read all the stories that catch my attention (maybe 1/5).

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Read a book. Also, whenever I read a good blog post I add the feed to Google Reader, so I have a ton of those. Email me if you want some. Reddit/programming is usually good for something too.

</comment><comment><USER10> To my own site where I aggregate lots of feeds that I like and where I put up various links I like to browse.

<http://filtercurve.com>

<comment><AUTHOR> thanks for <http://filtercurve.com/aggregator/news> . i got enough to go for another hour.

<comment><USER11> Your color selection was painful to my eyes. I use firefox. But somehow you pallete of blue on black was really annoying. I am sorry but my reaction is so strong, I cannot imagine why you would do that.

<comment><USER10> Believe it or not it looks just how I like. But I plan to make the theme selectable on the site at some point and I could make the default theme more conservative. I use firefox too. I'm a programmer and look at screens late in to the night and bright sites are painful to my eyes after about 10pm. I love to read the feeds on a dark subdued screen rather than on a site crowded with distractions and colors. Sorry to annoy you, maybe it's like a song that annoys you the first time you hear it and then later you can't get enough it is so refreshing and different. :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> After my RSS feeds have been dealt with, I have a ton of links saved in my Instapaper account to read... then there are the pdfs, not to mention the books... Oh, and I haven't even got to the work yet! (p.s. - Instapaper.com, I love you)

</comment><comment><USER13> <http://watrcoolr.us>

I made it for myself. It is intended to contain the most interesting stories at the moment. It is updated every 10 min with the top 3 stories from a bunch of most emailed type feeds (that I have tweaked over time), sorted by when the story was noticed first.

I use it as my homepage. The latest story comes up automatically. Occasionally I use the keyboard shortcuts (arrow keys, r -- see bottom right) to review the rest.

If anyone uses it, feed ideas are always appreciated.

</comment><comment><USER14> I think you are getting a lot of negative feedback here because when there is an avalanche of articles available to read, the more interesting question is how do you filter it all down to just a few useful ones. Even with Hacker News being the highest signal to noise site I read currently, the vast majority of articles are noise (to me).

I would love to see a "mark all as read" button on the front page, which would ensure I never see any of those articles on the front page again.

</comment><comment><USER15> I go to economist.com, or read the paper version of The Economist.

<comment><USER16> There's a subscription I need to renew...

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Read less, do more

<comment><USER5> Funny, Dan, considering your profile comment:

 _Daniel Ha, former #1 on the leader board. I will make my return. One day._

<comment><USER18> is it inconsistent? i'm in the same boat: used to waste a lot of time, now buckling down to get something done, and i'll waste time again once i'm filthy rich.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> To answer your question with a question, where do you want to go?

You don't really specify where your interests lie or what type of "news" you're looking for. I could tell you where I go, but unless you're into the exact same things that I'm into, you're just going to be bored. I don't think anybody's really looking to plan your day for you.

</comment><comment><USER20> <http://web20.originalsignal.com/>

<comment><USER10> Nicely done. I find the issue of how to design the interface of a site like this very interesting. Cool to see other approaches.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Nothing particularly insightful for you in my sites, although I tend to like to cross fertilize - news from outside tech informing what I do in tech.

mashable, slashdot

Non tech - news aggregation like yahoo and google. Twitter, facebook, linkedin.

</comment><comment><USER3> Reddit, slashdot, boingboing

</comment><comment><USER22> i spend way too much time reading on newscred. its my startup, so i'm biased. but losing track of time and getting hooked is a good sign for the product i guess.

</comment><comment><USER23> if you're a dev, artima.com, lambda-the-ultimate, <http://c2.com/cgi/wiki>. Find some delicious, magnolia, etc user whose interests align with yours. Build your own Google custom search engine.

</comment><comment><USER24> I make my own news. I work.

</comment><comment><USER25> I feel like being lazy in my answer.

<http://xenoterracide.blogspot.com> has links on the right of places I read.

</comment><comment><USER26> reddit (sigh)</comment>


The Games That Never Were: Sim Gotham - <AUTHOR> http://www.videogametourism.at/node/2041/ <comment><USER2> Sounds like it would be an amazing game! I actually think it would be better off in it's own universe rather than needing to be Gotham - if it's Gotham, I'm going to expect/want Batman and the Joker, not some randomly generated heroes.

Possibly there could be the default non-affiliated game, and all various licensed city/hero/villain packs could be purchased as DLC.

</comment><comment><USER3> I really feel like making this game. Anyone interested in working together?

<comment><USER3> I read through the article again and tried writing some implementation ideas, but it seems the whole thing would require more time than I have available, would anyone else care to spearhead such a project?

<comment><USER4> I'll see what I can put together. If/When I get something worth showing, I'll do a Show HN to enlist support.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> WOW I want to play this game! I wonder if it would be possible through SimCity modding?

</comment><comment><USER6> This would possibly be the perfect simulator. The player-created narrative hook - something the Sims had, for example, while SimCity didn't (as much) - is the secret sauce.

I'd buy it. I'll write for it, if anyone here makes it.

</comment><comment><USER7> Sounds a lot like Dungeon Village but with more interaction to the characters, which would be fantastic.

</comment><comment><USER8> kickstarter?</comment>


7-zip compromised - <AUTHOR> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05/12/popular_zip_tool_7zip_pwned_pain_flows_to_top_security_software_tools/ <comment><USER2> Is the issue with the lzma library, specific implementations, or the 7-Zip windows GUI that utilizes 7z/lzma as an archive option.

Will need to update my desktop install(s) now...</comment>


Gravity signals may provide a little extra warning before an earthquake strikes - <AUTHOR> http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-gravity-earthquake-signal-20161122-story.html <comment><USER2> Terrible site. Plays music and won't let you through with ad blocker.</comment>


Why Generation Y Choose the Startup Life - <AUTHOR> https://blog.paymill.com/generation-y-startups/

<comment><USER2> I have done some internships with big companies myself and see me in a start up the next years. Thanks for sharing!

</comment><comment><USER3> nice article, very interesting insights!</comment>


PHP Bug #18556 : Setting locale to 'tr_TR' lowercases class names - <AUTHOR> https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=18556

<comment><USER2> I think this was a good explanation:

"No, the problem results because lowercase i (in most languages) and uppercase I (in most languages) are not actually considered to be the upper/lower variant of the same letter in Turkish. In Turkish, the undotted ı is the lowercase of I, and the dotted İ is the uppercase of i. If you have a class named Image, it will break if the locale is changed to turkish because class_exists() function uses zend_str_tolower(), and changes the case on all classes, because they are supposed to be case insensitive. Someone else above explained it very well:

"class_exists() function uses zend_str_tolower(). zend_str_tolower() uses zend_tolower(). zend_tolower() uses _tolower_l() on Windows and tolower() on other oses. _tolower_l() is not locale aware. tolower() is LC_CTYPE aware."

Edit: Someone else later said the following (I'm wondering if it's true):

"This, practically, can't be fixed. Mainly because there's no way to know if 'I' is uppercase of 'i' or 'ı' since there's not a separate place for Turkish 'I' in code tables. The same holds for 'i' (can't be known if it's lowercase of 'I' or 'İ'). I told 2 years ago and will say it again: PHP should provide a way to turn off case-insensitive function/class name lookup. No good programmer uses this Basic language feature since identifiers are case- sensitive in all real languages like Python, Ruby, C#, Java."

<comment><USER3> But, why should the locale change the way PHP code is interpreted? Shouldn't LC_ALL="C" when parsing the code?

Maybe it breaks if you embed unicode strings or something. What do other languages do?

<comment><USER4> If it wasn't clear by the comments on the bug report or by the quoted sections of this comment's parent, let me rephrase it. This issue is entirely caused by the fact that PHP is case insensitive for classes and function names (but not variables, go figure). That is, if you define a class MyClass, you can instantiate it using MyClass or myclass or MYCLASS. You can call the functions from the standard library in whatever case either (so, array_map or ARRAY_MAP is fine).

Based on the behavior of this bug, it appears that the way PHP handles this case insensitivity is that it just lowercases all class and function names before resolving them. And this bug in particular shows up for Turkish because 'i' is not the lowercase equivalent of 'I'.

Pretty much all other modern languages are case sensitive, so I'd be surprised to find this issue elsewhere.

<comment><USER5> That still doesn't make sense. If 'i' is not the lowercase equivalent of 'I', then the lowercasing should just result in another letter, right? The only thing that could cause the bug is if it uses two different ways of lowercasing (perhaps one when registering the class, and another way when looking up the class).

The mapping between uppercase and lowercase can be completely arbitrary, and as long as it's used consistently you shouldn't get these kind of bugs.

<comment><USER6> The issue only occurs when the locale is changed between registering and looking up the class.

<comment><USER5> Doesn't look like that from the bug report; there the locale is set first, then the class is defined and then looked up.

<comment><USER6> PHP registers classes (and functions) at parse time, not at execution time.

i.e. this will print "bar":

        <?php
        echo foo();
        function foo() { return "bar"; }

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> If there are so many people depending on PHP and all the code written in PHP in all of Turkey, why doesnt someone in Turkey fix the problem?

Or anywhere for that matter?

There is no "they" in this equation. There is no person who should be held more accountable than you or I for fixing this problem.

The choices are simple:

1) Fix the problem

2) Find a work around

3) Don't use PHP

What's that? There is a lot of open source software that you wanted to use for free that's written in PHP that does just what you need except for this tiny little trivial thing that should be easy to fix? Well too bad!

Trade off the cost of fixing it against the cost of rewriting the big, free, open source package that's written in PHP you wanted to use, in the programming language of your choice, and stop complaining.

<comment><USER3> It might not be an easy fix if you're not familiar with PHP's guts. It's the kind of fix that can induce a lot of unexpected regressions.

Not wanting to fix a bug because it's not worth the time or risks breaking backward compatibility is perfectly fine by me. But at least take a decision and say something.

If they don't plan on fixing it they should say something like "We believe this is a minor bug that only concerns a small number of users. In order to fix this we'd need to change X, Y and Z and make sure we don't introduce regressions. If you want to try and do it we'll be glad to review your patches. In the meantime you can use this workaround: [...]".

I hate it when I submit a bug report and it's being ignored. You also build a strawman argument with the "lot of open source software that you wanted to use for free". It's a bug and should be fixed (even if the fix is closing the ticket as "wontfix").

<comment><USER7> The "strawman" you're referring to was in response to this:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4188167>

specifically the complaint that this problem manifests with lots of off-the- shelf software (although I suppose he didn't specify FOSS in his original comment).

However, I wasn't directly responding to that guy, I was more responding to what I feel has been aptly described as a "witch hunt" by others on this page.

 _It might not be an easy fix if you're not familiar with PHP's guts_

10 years is a long time for someone to have the chance to get familiar with it.

Even if you assume that for 8 years, everyone was saying "oh, it will get fixed some time" even 2 years is a long time for anyone affected by this problem seriously enough to become familiar enough with PHP to fix the problem _if that's the path that will produce the most value for them_ (ie. if there's enough value in some existing codebase or off the shelf software to warrant fixing this if there's truly no other workaround).

Still, I can see the sense in promoting major issues like this with PHP, but posting the bug report on the front page of HN is far less useful than, say, writing a blog post about it with some case studies of where the problem has been manifest, how people have dealt with it, the history of the bug, etc.

Actually that's a good blog post, might put it on my list ;)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> This is a huge bug. Believe or not, many dev people in Turkey use locale tr_TR (which is perfectly normal) and when they begin to use "any" off-the-shelf PHP library/class with uppercase-I, it does not work at all. A little example, if APC has a class with I, it won't work on your tr_TR configured Windows Server.

PHP is crap. Not even classical ASP had such bugs and it was perfectly passing the Turkey test ([http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/03/whats-wrong-with- tu...](http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/03/whats-wrong-with-turkey.html)) and Unicode supporting languages didn't have such a bug. E.g. Java, Python.

PHP is crap. This bug is clearly a WONTFIX, it's been 10 years since it is reported. I remember this bug when I was 14, thank God I moved on to other languages afterwards.

<comment><USER9> If this is such a dealbreaker for developers in Turkey, why have none of them, in the 10 years this bug has been alive, submitted a patch for it? PHP is open source, it relies on code submissions.

edit: not trolling, just curious. What drives people to complain about specific, well-defined open source bugs without any effort to fix it? I understand hard-to-nail down issues like user experience, but this shouldn't be that hard to plan out and fix independently.

<comment><USER10> If there are viable alternative projects which never had that problem, you can save all the time rather than trying to salvage someone else's broken software. It's a lot less time and trouble. What reason do I even have for fixing your project? I don't owe PHP loyalty when it is broken for me.

If there are viable alternative projects which are more responsive to bug reports, that is more promising for the future - if a second bug I see is reasonably likely to be fixed in the future, I can feel more confident basing my own code on it.

People spend months and years writing apps on top of things like PHP and once they have the code they don't necessarily have a lot of choice. At that point maybe you fix the bugs in your dependencies rather than rewrite your own app. But when you have a choice, you don't adopt a tool which is going to leave you with this much technical liability.

This is offered peacefully in an attempt to explain the question which seems to confuse you.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Every time an article critical of PHP appears, defenders come out of the woodwork. It's a great language, they say. It's no more flawed than any other language. Critics are just biased. It has problems, but other languages have problems too. People build large apps with PHP, so it must be good.

But come on. This language is complete crap. Code spontaneously fails depending on the locale? And the bug has been open for _ten years_ and still is not fixed? And this is only one bizarre and inexplicable bug out of hundreds, maybe thousands, of bizarre and inexplicable bugs in PHP.

This language isn't defensible. If you want to say that it's worth dealing with the flaws due to the ecosystem, fine, fair enough. But don't tell us that PHP is no worse than any other language. It's _far_ worse.

<comment><USER12> > Code spontaneously fails depending on the locale?

It doesn't spontaneously fail. The languages functions are case-insensitive and they documented this. [1] [2] When you change the locale to Turkish the letters change. Thus, the class name changes and no longer works as expected.

So it is documented because it may not as expected, but it is not spontaneous.

[1] <http://www.php.net/manual/en/functions.user-defined.php>

[2] <https://gist.github.com/3033533>

<comment><USER13> That's incorrect. It's not behaving as documented. Whether you compare in a case-sensitive or case-insensitive way "Info" should always match "Info". The bug results in a situation where it doesn't.

I'd accept that you cannot reference class "info" using name "Info" in Turkish locale, but that's not the case here.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> It's kind of hard _not_ to bash PHP for crap like this.

Yes, the PHP ecosystem is friendly, easy, cheap, etc. etc.

But as a programming language _per se_... Come on, PHP.

</comment><comment><USER15> PHP is a big legacy open source project, worked on by many volunteers whenever they can spare the time, just like any other open source project.

It is wildly successful despite this and many other bugs.

I only wish that the people who spend as much time attacking PHP and it's developers endlessly would instead focus some of that energy into helping to improve PHP, but I guess some of us are just negatively charged.

Sad that we have yet another anti-PHP posting hitting the front of HN in as many days, let the hating re-commence (again)...

<comment><USER16> Responses like this to people who don't like PHP are just as bad as the people constantly and loudly attacking it. Neither accomplishes anything other than building animosity.

Your suggestion that people improve PHP instead of attacking it is naive. PHP is, as you said, a big legacy open source project. As a result of that, it's basically impossible to make the extreme, breaking changes that many people (me included) think would be required to make it a reasonable competitor to the existing options. (And the PHP community is not especially inclined to change. It took years for _short array syntax_ to get added to the language. If something as obviously beneficial as that is going to be hotly debated, making real, breaking changes is impossible.)

Faced with the alternatives of trying to radically change PHP (which is, as I said above, impossible) or to use and improve other languages and frameworks, I think the choice is obvious. It was one thing 5-10 years ago when there weren't necessarily good or mature alternatives, but we have many choices now. In my opinion, it makes very little sense to use something with as much extraordinarly painful legacy baggage as PHP unless you have an exceptionally good reason for doing so.

<comment><USER17> After 5+ years of eloquent, smart programmers* posting long, well researched screeds about what's deeply broken with PHP's design at the most fundamental levels, there is no other conclusion to be reached. The only way to improve PHP is to replace it, and we have a long way to go to get there.

* Note that I am _not_ including myself in this list. But any trivial search for "what's wrong with PHP", much less "PHP sucks" produces 5+ years of very bright, articulate, sometimes downright famous programmers making this same point about PHP. Most recently Jamie Zawinski at [http://www.jwz.org/blog/2011/05/computational-feces/#comment...](http://www.jwz.org/blog/2011/05/computational-feces/#comment-90634)

<comment><USER15> > After 5+ years of eloquent, smart programmers* posting long, well researched > screeds about what's deeply broken with PHP's design at the most fundamental > levels, there is no other conclusion to be reached.

Issuing holy decrees from their ivory towers more like. Meanwhile, lots of tremendously successful companies doing real work in PHP each and every day, at the coal face, where it matters. Does their hard work deserve this constant ridicule?

> The only way to improve PHP is to replace it, and we have a long way to go > to get there.

Agreed. When something better comes along, I'll start using it (like how I switched from Perl to PHP a long time ago). The problem is, many "eloquent, smart programmers" are too busy "posting long, well researched screeds" to spend some time making PHP better (or making a better PHP).

<comment><USER18> It seems to me that the kicker is the obviously superior alternatives, such as python, ruby, and JavaScript, don't offer the ease of deployment that php has via mod_php, and instead insist on the developer writing a web server. While there are advantages (performance, control) to the web server approach it is clear that there are advantages (simplicty) to being able to stick code snippets in web pages.

If you could deploy (say) python-decorated web pages via apache (on el cheapo hosting services) versus write yor own server and figure out how to host it then the problem would be solved. We have the languages, just not the ecosystems.

Obviously I'm not the first to observe this. Mod_python exists, it's just not popular.

<comment><USER19> I don't know any rails developer who has written a web server, where did you get that idea? Many use mod_rails via nginx or apache:

<http://www.modrails.com/>

Also, PAAS offerings like Heroku and Engine Yard make deploying sophisticated rails environments far more convenient than their PHP equivalent.

> "sticking code snippets in web pages"

You can do exactly this in ruby with ERB, but many shy away from this approach due to a distaste for the bolognaise pattern.

You should try ruby/rails/sinatra on your next project, it will change your life.

<comment><USER18> I've tried rails, years ago. Don't like its fundamental design. My life remains unchanged.

BTW how do you think rails serves web pages?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> That's why, for example, .NET world has .ToLowerInvariant() and .ToUpperInvariant() and developers are advised to use it when doing internal stuff. Interpreting / parsing a language is clearly an internal task and shouldn't be affected by locale changes.

<comment><USER21> Unfortunately you can't compare .NET to PHP. Ever.

<comment><USER22> They just did.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> It's also referred as The Turkey Test : [http://www.moserware.com/2008/02/does-your-code-pass- turkey-...](http://www.moserware.com/2008/02/does-your-code-pass-turkey- test.html)

[http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/03/whats-wrong-with- tu...](http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/03/whats-wrong-with-turkey.html)

</comment><comment><USER24> I is not capital of i in Turkish. Instead, İ is capital of i and I is capital of ı. They are two different letters.

<comment><USER25> No other language has this problem. The locale is irrelevant. The class name is just a series of bytes; it shouldn't need to transform the case.

<comment><USER26> True for languages which are case-sensitive.

Other languages like PHP (partially), BASIC or Pascal are case insensitive, so lookup has to be done case-insensitively which means that case has to be normalized, so transforming case of identifier becomes necessary. If it can't be done consistently, that's a problem.

<comment><USER27> So you use a culture-invariant locale for parsing. Still not a problem.

<comment><USER26> How do you lowercase in a culture-invariant locale? Or do you mean english?

<comment><USER11> No matter how you do it, a class name should always match when looked up with an _identical string_.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> The situation is not helped by the frequent OSS community suggestion: "Just patch Turkish." while mumbling "Bloody non-ASCII ingrates."

</comment><comment><USER29> What was the advantage of case insensitive class and function names? Sounds to me like someone that was implementing very early on without great reasons and them kept for backwards comparability. In all my programming in PHP I have never thought to take advantage of this.

<comment><USER30> I'm assuming the original reason is lost in the mists of time, but one advantage it has when calling/using external/3rd party code is in style conventions. If in my code my convention is to use functionNames but in yours you use functionames or FunctionNames, I can still code in my style after include()ing your file. A small advantage, granted.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I don't understand what's the problem with fixing this really. I would completely agree that making "Info" and "info" class names compatible is "not fixable", but what is the problem in making "Info" work if both the definition and usage are the same case? The bug says that this is exactly backwards - mixed case works, but same case doesn't.

The only way to make it not work is to first change the case in one locale and then case-insensitive compare it in another locale. Why would this kind of operation ever happen? Any sane situation should "just work":

\- in declaration convert to lower-case and save, in usage convert to lower- case and lookup -> has to work

\- in declaration save original, in usage search all classes with case- insensitive compare -> has to work

How was that bug ever created in the first place? I get the fact that "I" doesn't match to lower-case "i" in tr_TR, but why does it matter when comparing strings which should be equal? Just be consistent in how both the declarations and usages are converted...

</comment><comment><USER29> It is likely no one who regularly commits to PHP is effected by this issue and it requires non trivial changes to the way PHP works to fix.

Granted given the usual pragmatism of PHP someone should have just hacked something in by now.

</comment><comment><USER31> I'm looking forward to the tenth birthday of this bug... Only 24 days to go !

</comment><comment><USER32> This is my biggest problem with PHP. Aside from poor language construction , and the plethora of poorly written code the core language has lots of problems in it. When upgrading to PHP 5.4.3 I found six or seven show stopper bugs in PHP and some of its extensions ( one of which has never worked ). I am still waiting on the fix to one of them. <https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=62302>

</comment><comment><USER33> If this is a known bug and it's been there for 10 years then why the hell did the developer STILL chose to use PHP in the first place?

<comment><USER21> Unfortunately on legacy systems someone else chose PHP for him a long time ago... Poor developer that has to deal with this stuff. Been there.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> Words fail me.

<comment><USER35> I know it seems insane, but Turkish capitalization is not fun to work with as a programmer. When they latinized the alphabet 100 years ago or so, they were short on vowels and so it must have seemed pretty clever and convenient to make i and I separate letters with İ and ı respective case pairs. From a western programmers perspective though it's one of the worst unicode special cases owing to its combined unexpectedness and commonness.

Just as an example, text-transform: uppercase has been broken in Turkish for all major browsers until I believe Firefox finally fixed it late last year, after having a bug open for _nearly a decade_.

<comment><USER36> Just my curiosity, how do you know that they were short on vowels?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> Bug is a bug is a bug is a bug

</comment><comment><USER38> wow, it has been 10 years and no fix!

</comment><comment><USER39> Please stop telling PHP is a crap. News on the topic are damn to high. Think that PHP coders are beginning to migrate to stuff like python and that most of them don't want to learn programming, they still want to monkey write program and that through trial and errors it works. I am on a one of the #python-xx irc channel, it is an horror.

PHP is cool, it is useful, it is a magnet for bad developers. This way they don't pollute our ecosystems.

</comment><comment><USER40> PHP is to Ruby(Or whatever your hater flavor is) as Christians is to Muslims. Neither of them are going to go away until one of them kills all the others. The more likely alternative is something else coming and destroying them both.

<comment><USER40> This is simply proof of the demographic and blind nature of the Hacker News audience. Pathetic</comment></comment>


Show HN: Larder, bookmarking for developers - <AUTHOR> https://larder.io/ <comment><USER2> What structural guarantees have you embedded in your corporate structure to ensure that data won't be rendered inaccessible if you have to shut the system down due to acquisition or lack of funding?

<comment><USER3> How would you like such a guarantee implemented? Maybe something involving a third party?

<comment><USER4> Do some form of local caching and p2p distribution.

I don't see this kind of software needing to be managed by a third party. This is easily something doable with a p2p protocol.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> How does this compare to Pinboard.in? I have used Pinboard for a while and would try this if I didn't have to sign up via a second-level form page just to see a demo. I'd be 100% more willing to sign up if you had a simple "demo" sandbox account that was cleared each day or something. I know this sounds incredibly apathetic on my part, but you're pandering to developers, a notoriously lazy crowd. EDIT: Lazy meaning "why do more work than necessary" not "poor, sloppy work"

</comment><comment><USER6> The tag/folder system is not specifically useful just for developers and the only other major feature is integration with GitHub.

As far as i can see, this is not bookmarking for all developers, but rather the subset of developers that use GitHub. Although this might be a rather large part of developers (maybe even most), it would be misleading to imply that this is for all developers.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> We're still quite early on in building it, but the missing things you'd expect like an API and mobile clients are in the works. If you sign up and find you'd like something else that's missing, feel free to vote or suggest things on our public Trello roadmap [1]. We want to keep adding more features that aid developer productivity, so if you have related ideas we're keen to hear them.

[1]: [https://trello.com/b/0gw1nPAH/larder- roadmap](https://trello.com/b/0gw1nPAH/larder-roadmap)

</comment><comment><USER7> suggestions \- I imported 1000+ starts to the 'coding' folder, to re-organize them, I wish I can multi-select on the right list and drag them to any of the folders. \- I was I can modify tags like in gmail web. \- The search is far from usable yet - assume I've got a tag called 'fuck-gfw', I entered 'gfw' but got nothing.

Hope it helps.

<comment><AUTHOR> You can select multiple by hitting "manage" and then using the checkboxes that appear. Sorry that isn't clear.

Search does partial matches for url, description, title etc., but tags are the one thing that do require a full match. If you type '#fu' into the search, for example, you'll get a '#fuck-gfw' suggestion. (I have no idea what GFW is by the way, so I cannot approve or condone this sentiment)

<comment><USER7> Oh, actually I tried typing #f, but the suggestions did not come up in a timely manner so I missed it.

Re. GFW, it's a nightmare of all Chinese information workers including programmers ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Firewall](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Firewall))

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> This looks like a great idea! I've been using Pocket for storing dev stuff with the intention of organising it, but never get around to reading anything. Hopefully having folders will help.

Really, as long as I can quickly assign or create a category at the time I saved the bookmark, I'll be happy.

</comment><comment><USER9> It would be nice if it would show favicons for the links.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'll add it to the suggestions in the roadmap.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Love it. But I don't understand this bit:

[https://larder.io/account/](https://larder.io/account/)

        Bookmark limit
        Trial: 1/day
        Paid: Unlimited

So far that's not true, unless I'm reading it wrong. I've started a trial account and have bookmarked at least 20 sites. Is there a restriction I'm missing here?

<comment><AUTHOR> Sorry this isn't clear. The trial restriction only kicks in after the first day, so that when you first sign up you can go nuts testing it out. I'll add that clarification to the account or upgrade page somewhere.

<comment><USER10> Oh. Now I wish I didn't ask, haha. 1 link per day is a pretty steep restriction.

<comment><AUTHOR> You'd think so, but a bunch of users who keep happily using Larder without paying for it say otherwise! It seems like plenty of people don't hit that limit. I probably wouldn't either, actually. It's a tricky balance, because it has to be a high enough limit to still be useful (apparent tick) but low enough to encourage upgrading (uh,not enough data yet). It is a free trial and not a free tier, after all — the idea is that if you find you're using it regularly and hitting the limit, then perhaps you might be interested in paying for it.

<comment><USER10> Really appreciate your perspective. Looking forward to giving it a shot. I've found Pocket to be bloated and getting slower and slower in China, so the speed and minimal UI is really attractive to me.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> You are not showing (in the open page, not registered) what the application is for, how it looks, how it feels or the differences between paying or not.

Some of this information should be shown (differences in pricing), some could be shown via a demo account like kfrz suggested.

Right now your price for entry (filling a form, sharing our info) is too high for just getting to know the most basic information.

</comment><comment><USER12> Cool idea, I like it. I've been using Evernote for all my bookmarking needs and while it fulfills the purpose, I wouldn't mind trying something new. If you can, do you mind comparing Larder with other more generic services like Evernote/Pocket?

</comment><comment><USER13> This looks cool. What is the major differentiator for those of us using Chrome logged in with a Google account?

I see that the GitHub stars are synced, but is there anything else? Is this supposed to be used to bookmark GitHub repos only, or as a more general tool?

<comment><AUTHOR> It's a general bookmarking tool that is focused on developer use-cases.

As I mentioned in another thread, in the future we'll be working on other developer-oriented features like an API, webhooks, maybe Stack Overflow integration or a CLI client, depending on what users want. GitHub sync is just the first big feature :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Is it possible to save snippets from pages, or just bookmarks?

<comment><AUTHOR> No, we're going for straight bookmarking — more Delicious than Evernote.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> What makes this more then other simlilar services fit for developers ?

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm not aware of any other bookmarking services specifically tailored towards devs, so I can't speak to that. In terms of what we do differently to other general bookmarking services, our big one right now is the GitHub integration — we sync your starred repos as bookmarks, tag them by language automatically, and also sync related metadata like last release and commit date. I find it really handy to have my bookmarks and stars in one spot, because I save a lot of dev-related resources and I can never remember, did I bookmark an article about that library or did I star its repo? Now I can just look in the one spot for everything. Also, the metadata on last commit etc is very handy for keeping an eye on how active libraries are without having to watch them and wade through the full feed of their issues, etc.

In the future we'll be working on other developer-oriented features like an API, webhooks, maybe Stack Overflow integration or a CLI client, depending on what users want.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> "Bookmarking for developers"

Click "Sign Up"

No github connect.

Bye-bye.

<comment><AUTHOR> You're correct, we don't use GitHub for social sign-in. You connect a GitHub account in the next step of the signup process.

<comment><USER17> Is there a particular reason you don't use it for login if it is required on the next step anyway?

<comment><AUTHOR> It's not required, it's an option if you want to sync starred repos.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN:  Review my site - <AUTHOR>

Just looking for some comments/criticism on my new site for cancer research.  Why would/wouldn't you shop here.  Thanks!<p>Site:  www.CureCart.com <comment><USER2> Here is my 2 cents.

I like the concept and I think your little cartoon is a good way to describe the premise. I would include a "recently searched items, or screenshot of a search on the home page. Something that would re-enforce that you are legit to outside people.

When I went to terms, press, etc.. I noticed that you are using the search layout to display the results. I initially thought this was a little strange. I then realized my expectation was to have a typical document experience not the same experience as a search.

Finally you mention that the profits go toward cancer research, but you don't mention which type of cancer or the fund you are donating the money to. I think having a link to how/where/when you are donating the profits would be a very good thing to have. Maybe even include a counter with the dollars donated.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey guys, OP here.

The money I have donated so far goes to the American Cancer Society but I'm not allowed to use their name on the site. They say that it would be considered "cause marketing" and that I would need to sign an agreement with them. To get this agreement my company has to be running for at least a year (I have since set one up because of this). The counter is a good idea that I'll get going tonight. Thanks!

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> 1) Where does the other 50% go? And what "cancer research"? A recognised charity?

2) It's a simple message, but that means it's not quite accurate. The people making the product make a profit (noe of which goes to cancer research); the people selling the product make a profit (none of which goes to cancer research); so really it's only 50% of the affiliate fees that go to cancer research, right?

3) the mix of different colours is weird and jarring. (And yes, I appreciate that compared to Amazon's own website being jabbed in the eye with a stick is more pleasant.) There's red, grey, blue, black; then the links blue and purple.

4) I dislike the dropshadow on the curecart sign. I thought my eyes had gone funny.

Good Luck though, it's a neat idea.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey Dan,

The other 50% has been used for advertising and stuff... for tax reasons you can only donate up to 50% of your income and have it be tax deductible. This means that the max I could donate is 85% without going negative... but I have spent waaaaay more than the other 50% on marketing so far.

The cancer research charity so far has been the american cancer society... you are right that it's really only 50% of the affiliate fees but I think that's clearly shown in the cartoon? It's still about 5% of your total purchase which I think is pretty good for getting the same stuff you normally would at the same price.

I'll try to get the colors to match more...

Thanks for the dropshadow info... I'll check that out too.

I've contacted 150 non profit orgs to feature on my site with the promise that the profits would go to them, however everyone that has gotten back to me in the past month have all said that I need to be an established company for at least a year, for fear of losing their "brand image" if something went wrong. This makes sense to me but it kinda sucks... who wouldn't want free money?

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I think it should be easy to see which organizations can be donated to up front.

<comment><AUTHOR> Agreed... if you know of an org that will let me feature them directly or have a contact I could use, that would be pretty sweet. None of the orgs I contacted will let me put their name/image on my site. They all just say "give us the money, but don't use any of our info"</comment></comment>


Two aspects of addiction keep people hooked on cigarettes - <AUTHOR> https://www.pocketcoach.co/blog/the-two-faces-of-addiction-how-cigarettes-keep-you-hooked/ <comment><AUTHOR> psychological + physical dependence conspire to make addiction hard to shake off for many people</comment>


The Traveling Salesman Problem Is Not NP-Complete - <AUTHOR> https://eklitzke.org/the-traveling-salesman-problem-is-not-np-complete <comment><USER2> Thanks for posting this! Distinctions like NP-complete versus NP-hard are worth maintaining, especially because they're so often confused.</comment>


Android co-creator Andy Rubin launches Essential smartphone with modular add-ons - <AUTHOR> https://venturebeat.com/2017/05/30/android-co-creator-andy-rubin-launches-the-699-essential-smartphone/ <comment><USER2> I want to believe that this Android devices will have the support they deserve and not stop updating them once the sales season ends. And probably see an alternative to Google services in the long term.</comment>


YouTube Mistakes Combat Robots as Animal Cruelty - <AUTHOR> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qMQ5ZYlU3DI <comment><USER2> Only free-range, oil fed, cruelty free robots allowed on YouTube.</comment>


What are the Best ethereum DApp ideas that haven't been launched yet? - <AUTHOR> Ethereum's decentralized and anonymous nature are great for some types of Dapps, such as prediction/betting and stablecoins. However, there are already many players on both these fields (e.g. Augur, Gnosis; Makercoin, Digix).<p>What do you guys see as great use cases for Ethereum DApps (i.e. an app that would be better on Ethereum that on a normal website) that have not been launched yet? <comment><USER2> There are so many projects now that I don't know if anyone is already working on or has a token sale being planned for these, but the best ones I could think of are:

* using Town Crier or some other oracle that utilizes trusted hardware to provide authenticated online bank transfer statements, for a Dapp that enables trustless fiat <-> ether exchange. This would be very ambitious and very costly in resources and time - possibly over a half a decade to really get it right.

* online markets, though several are being worked on

* a Dapp for trading GPU time for game-time tokens, and using the GPU resources to generate procedural worlds, fauna and plant life, like a much richer and decentralized version of No Man's Sky. With the GPU resources, the fauna and plant-life could be generated through evolutionary processes, to make them much more compelling and realistic.

* a privacy-focused payments Dapp, especially one that utilizes the new functionality that will become available with the release of Metropolis, which will make both ring-signatures and zk-SNARKs possible.

* a payment channel Dapp for use in a Lightning Network implementation

</comment><comment><USER3> Hi Noloblo,

Please drop me an email on email@example.com. I have a few ideas.

Regards

Rume</comment>


Ex-Nokia guys start mystery company to build Linux-based phones - <AUTHOR> http://venturebeat.com/2012/07/07/jolla-mobile/

<comment><USER2> 'linux-based' is not a selling point.

<comment><USER3> Not until you consider the alternatives.</comment></comment>


I have 250,000 users, now what? - <AUTHOR> http://www.insidefacebook.com/2007/06/21/i-have-250000-users-now-what/ <comment><USER2> How can one monetize a Facebook app?

I've been thinking about this recently.. If your facebook app does well, then you will pay for it in terms of servers and bandwidth, but where can you make returns?

Unless you can somehow draw traffic to your site through your facebook app I think it might be an uphill battle. I heard reports that iLike actually LOST website traffic after the release of their facebook app.

You are getting some degree of brand recognition but the user base really isnt yours if they never use your product outside the facebook sandbox.

Any thoughts?

<comment><USER3> Yes, iLike lost about 70% of their traffic. People now think iLike is just a part of the facebook. They'll be in similar situation as the author of the app discussed in the article.

Problem with monetizing facebook apps is that not even facebook can monetize its users through ads: <http://valleywag.com/tech/advertising/facebook- consistently-the-worst-performing-site-242234.php>

Maybe virtual gifts/items will help facebook's bottom line? Who knows... but clearly advertising might not be the holy grail.

<comment><USER4> There's a free gifts facebook app, so no more money from buying gifts.

Advertising is most definitely the holy grail for social networking sites. Just because no one has done it yet doesn't mean it can't be done.

<comment><USER5> Networks:Social Networks :: Advertising:Social Advertising ?

Networks:Advertising :: Social Networks: Social Advertising?

If not social advertising, then what? What would social advertising look like (and I dont think 'viral advertising' is the complete answer) Perhaps this will be a fruitful thought prompt.

<comment><USER6> Users with lots of friends (traffic) can be courted by sponsors automatically, and include the advertiser's widgets on their page.

These sites are potentially a goldmine because of the contextual information available, but for the sake of advertisers, popularity/age/sex are probably all that really matter -- I guess you could throw in location, too -- so it could be effectively automated.

I like this idea. It seems cynical enough to work.

You're popular, you have lots of 'friends' ... you're a star! Go sell some Doritos!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Step 1) Get 250,000 users Step 2) Step 3) Profit!

That's all you gotta do.

<comment><USER2> Not when your burn rate is through the roof due to rampant hosting fees. More users != profit.

<comment><USER7> You forgot about Step 2.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I was under the impression that 250,000 users would be sufficient to attract VC funding to a startup.

Is this not the case with Facebook apps? Can Facebook apps attract VC funding at all?

<comment><USER9> I would say that his traffic is less "defendable" than a stand-alone site.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> For reference, the 55-day-later followup:

The "I Have 250,000 Users, Now What?" guy just sold his Facebook app for $3 million <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43352>

<comment><USER10> Or maybe not:

Updated: TripAdvisor Denies Buying Facebook App <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43528></comment></comment>


Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths?  - <AUTHOR> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/21/boston-marathon-bombs-us-gun-law <comment><USER2> I think that the thing we Europeans (and us Brits in particular) often fail to grasp is that the USA is a very foreign country. I love my visits there and my US friends but it does not take a long stay for you to run into things that seem "incomprehensible" and you start saying to yourself "that cant be right".

However it works the other way too. We fail to deal properly with things like the right to free speech - and our USA cousins find that pretty incomprehensible - surely a fundamental freedom.

There are some huge cultural differences - made more difficult sometimes to understand because of the vast common components of shared culture.

<comment><USER3> The collective failure of governments (and voters) to address CO2 emissions is more loony by many orders of magnitude than guns or traffic. And this even with international institutions (WTO & UN) that could be used to goad everybody to fall in line.

For future generations, the hysteria about terrorism while ignoring the the more serious threats will look baffling.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> In the US gun suicides outnumber gun homocides, so the gun control advocates add them together and call it gun violence to inflate the numbers for political reasons.

<comment><USER5> People killing themselved don't count?

Are you even listening to yourself?

<comment><USER4> I never claimed suicides don't count, so I have no idea what you are referring to.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I know this seems odd, but are we not, all as a society, doing the same thing with vehicle related deaths? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic- re...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic- related_death_rate)

So the UK 'allows' 2222 deaths to occur (USA - 33808) as they perceive the benefit of vehicles to be worth that cost.

The USA does the same with guns.</comment>


Bank's severance deal requires IT workers to be on call for two years - <AUTHOR> http://www.computerworld.com/article/2994787/it-careers/bank-s-severance-deal-requires-it-workers-to-be-on-call-for-two-years.html <comment><USER2> It is illegal - "However, if the company called them and did not pay them, that would be "a clear violation of the Fair Labor Standards Act," she said. That law establishes wage standards. There may be exceptions for participation in certain aspects of litigation, but Blackwell said, "this clause is too broad" and is likely unenforceable."</comment>


Gmail Down/Degraded Performance - <AUTHOR> https://outage.report/gmail <comment><AUTHOR> Issue resolved finally. [https://www.google.com/appsstatus#hl=en&v=issue&sid=1&iid=a4...](https://www.google.com/appsstatus#hl=en&v=issue&sid=1&iid=a45de3b26d6c5872f4cfe8e3424d7a82)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Investigation trail [https://www.google.com/appsstatus#hl=en&v=issue&sid=1&iid=a4...](https://www.google.com/appsstatus#hl=en&v=issue&sid=1&iid=a45de3b26d6c5872f4cfe8e3424d7a82)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Mulitple Google Apps are affected. [https://www.google.com/appsstatus#hl=en&v=status](https://www.google.com/appsstatus#hl=en&v=status)

</comment><comment><USER2> Can confirm. I am able to access my corporate Gmail account, but unable to send emails.

<comment><USER3> The issue is with the attachments. Any draft with attachment throws an error on auto-save.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> My photos not backing up is what caught my eye. Looks widespread. Hold on tight!</comment>


Goodbye Toronto, hello Winnipeg: Are Canada's young giving up big city dreams? - <AUTHOR> https://www.theglobeandmail.com/investing/personal-finance/household-finances/article-goodbye-toronto-hello-winnipeg-are-canadas-young-giving-up-their/ <comment><USER2> Key quote is further down in the article, although I don't know if the referenced study accounted for health care costs:

 _" Mr. Yan conducted a study looking at the median housing values of various North American cities, as well as median incomes. He found that while Vancouver is the third most expensive city to live in, it is ranked 50th in income, with a median household income of $72,622. Toronto's ranked 32, with a median household income of $78,373.

San Jose and San Francisco, where all the big tech firms are located, are the first and second most expensive cities in North America, respectively, but they're also No. 1 and No. 2 in median household income. If median income were higher in Canada's largest cities, then those 30-somethings would make these urban hot spots more of a long-term destination, he says."_

EDIT: Andy Yan's data for the initial comparisons are based on Stats Canada numbers, which means his initial set[1] of studies and analysis seem to have focused on Canada-only.

[1] [https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/radical- disconnect-...](https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/radical-disconnect- as-average-metro-vancouver-earner-reaps-72000-a-year-and-pays-1-4-million-for- a-home)

</comment><comment><USER3> I live in Toronto. It's relatively expensive, but the rent prices don't factor in tons of things:

1\. You don't need a car, carshares like Zipcar work great, which saves $1000/month ($200/month parking, $200/month insurance, $300/month gas, $300/month lease/maintenance)

2\. Stress level and commutes - walking is a pleasure (especially with the PATH in the winter), while driving is stressful and harmful to your health. The 1-2 he you save daily with commutes/driving is _life_ that you get back.

3\. Opportunity cost - you can do 2-3 free meetups/events per week to meet new people and network. The interchange of ideas and connections is _priceless_

4\. You don't need a house. A house is a _luxury_ and so is having kids.

You can still find 1br units for $1500-$2000/month. Condos are for sale in the city for $400,000.

It's not that living in Toronto is expensive. It's people's misconception that owning a house and having children are basics, when they're actually luxuries. My response to not being able to afford living in the city while spending on other luxuries is usually too bad. Figure out your priorities and make sacrifices.

<comment><USER4> To your point re 400k condos, I would very much question the quality, size, and location for these. 400 seems very low and below market for the city.

<comment><USER5> You can get an OK-quality condo for $400k, but it's definitely not going to be located in downtown or midtown. The condo fees I've seen however are unfortunately pretty high across the board, anywhere from from $500 to $900/month.

<comment><USER6> The condo fees explode in most new developments between year 2 and 5, often tripling in the city.

Additionally, the baseline fee burden is amplified by the practice of developers counting guest suites as sold by pre-selling the suite to the condo corporation, who then place the financing costs of the guest suites onto the unit owners.

<comment><USER5> I did not know about this. I'm pretty inexperienced in this area, so I appreciate the heads up about that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I feel this is a bit sensationalized. If one didn't want to put up with Toronto housing prices, there are many other affordable choices within 1-2h drive from Toronto. No need to pack up and move to Winnipeg which, btw, is the murder capital of the country [1]. And this is in a year that Toronto is seeing some of its worst gun violence since the mid 2000s.

[1] [https://globalnews.ca/news/4347007/manitoba-has-highest- homi...](https://globalnews.ca/news/4347007/manitoba-has-highest-homicide- rate-in-canada-violent-crime-up-in-both-winnipeg-and-manitoba/)

<comment> village-idiot I'm still amazed that we consider a 1-2h commute acceptable.

<comment><USER7> I would not consider that acceptable. I guess the assumption is that you would commute into Toronto for work. But that is not what I was talking about. I meant that there were places close by that one could have a life. For example, Kitchener-Waterloo, London, Hamilton. All these places have way more affordable housing and job opportunities.

<comment><USER5> London is approximately 2 hours driving from Toronto. Kitchener-Waterloo is similar. Only Hamilton is close to the 1 hour mark, and housing prices have been rising there as well.

<comment><USER7> Well I did say 1-2h in the GP.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>