Coding Boot Camps Attract Tech Companies - <AUTHOR> http://www.wsj.com/article_email/coding-boot-camps-attract-tech-companies-1470945503-lMyQjAxMTE2ODE2MTUxMzE4Wj <comment><USER2> I used to work for a coding bootcamp (not Flatiron) and made good money with a month off in between each of the three classes I taught each year. I eventually left because it felt like I was complicit in selling a lie. I totally agree with the article. Students graduating from a bootcamp are definitely not "job ready" without additional training / mentorship. Three months is just not a lot of time to acquire all of the good instincts that you naturally learn over years of doing development. Also the number of junior developers coming out of these bootcamps, combined with graduates from traditional CS programs is way more than the Bureau of Labor statistics suggests that the job market can bear and I saw these effects in action. Each class I taught had a harder time finding jobs than the one before, despite being _more_ qualified on average.

That's not to say bootcamps are not worth it for anyone. There are some really good ones out there that honestly want to help improve peoples lives. The catch is that the students that have the most success are not the ones who come in knowing nothing. The most successful students have spent months (if not years) of dedicated self study. The bootcamp acts as a way to fill in some gaps and provide confidence in the job hunt.

<comment><USER3> I used to work for the admissions department of a private university (not in the US). Private universities were mostly focused in enrolling as many people as possible, while not being particularly worried about the market needs at all. Back then, our educational system produced an excessive number of attorneys and kinesiologists, leaving many of them in disadvantage at the moment of looking for jobs. Many of them switched to other occupations for very low wages, something that did not release them from the obligation of paying student loans.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> > Flatiron, a for-profit school, has seized on a clear need in the economy > that some academic experts say reveals a failing among traditional > universities.

Teaching highly specialized skills currently in demand has not traditionally been the mission of universities. In professions like architecture and medicine there is an expectation that new graduates won't have much in the way of practical knowledge about current practices, and so apprenticeships are more or less built in to the transition from student to practitioner.

Is a disinterest in teaching current professional practice really a failing of universities?

It seems more likely that bootcamps are simply a way for software firms to outsource part of the apprenticeship process. Most of the people who go to good bootcamps already have strong university educations and would likely have been able to be hired into junior dev roles anyway without the bootcamp.

<comment><USER5> > Most of the people who go to good bootcamps already have strong university > educations and would likely have been able to be hired into junior dev roles > anyway without the bootcamp.

That depends on how much programming experience they have. Many boot camp attendees have college degrees in non-technical majors and have no coding experience at all.

A boot camp is a way to get coding experience in a structured environment that has credibility with employers. In the view of many companies, self-taught coders don't have that level of credibility, even when they have decent Github portfolios or other proof that they can program.

<comment><USER4> Interesting. I wonder if that necessity for lending credibility is a somewhat recent thing. Perhaps the popularity of bootcamps makes people who recently got into coding and didn't attend one look worse - companies might assume they couldn't get in to a decent one?

I'm a developer who didn't study CS in undergrad, and I didn't have a problem getting job offers when I was starting out several years ago, self taught and unproven. But bootcamps weren't really a thing back then.

<comment><USER6> I'm self-educated as well, but back then (starting around 1999) there was no Github (so less visibility into a prospect's activity) and no frameworks (so problem solving was more valuable than structure)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Another instance of tech thinking it did it first. In the rest of the economy, we call these "trade schools".

</comment><comment><USER8> _" The Flatiron School's 12-week course costs $15,000, but earns students no degree and no certificate."_

Over $1000 a week per student, and their classes look big. Somebody is making lots of money off this. What do they pay their instructors?

<comment><USER9> A semester of tuition at a top-50 private university is $20-25k. Seems reasonable.

<comment><USER10> NEITHER of them "seem reasonable"!

<comment><USER9> It's reasonable from several different angles. Economics: The goods are priced lower than the competition. You don't negotiate prices _against yourself_. ROI: as aianus mentions. Affordability: it's about the same cost as a car, and lots of people own cars.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> _When Apple Inc., for example, announced in 2014 a new programming language for its products, Swift, Flatiron adjusted its curriculum within days_

I don't see how this is possible, who is teaching this course? How do you go from 0 to instructor-level expert in "days"?

<comment><USER11> You know already know the frameworks, a third of swift is ObjC with better and more concise syntax. And it's not like Swift didn't get inspiration from other languages. Even though the combination was novel, the single ingredients were usually from somewhere. (Don't take it as a jab at Swift, it's probably my fav language + environment for app development).

You might not be writing idiomatic Swift from the get go but no one is at that point.

<comment><USER12> > You might not be writing idiomatic Swift from the get go but no one is at > that point.

I think that's kind of the point the parent comment is making. How can a school acting in good faith open Swift classes if it's impossible for anyone to actually be an expert on it?

<comment><USER13> Relax. All they need to do is teach, not be experts.

I asked the same of a MechE friend who used to teach AutoCAD at a community college despite not having known it before. His answer? I just need to stay a week ahead of the class.

<comment><USER10> $1000/week seems alot to be taught by such a guy, IMHO. A student could do that for free, from Apple's website, and be only one week behind where they would be. So Flatiron is charging $15k for a one week head start!

<comment><USER13> People pay for value. If they see value in doing X over Y, then they'll pay for X.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> A coding camp graduate can be considered with respect to a computer science graduate what a paralegal is to a lawyer, or what a nurse is to a doctor.

They can perform some procedures, but not all of them, and at some point there might be supervision.

Now to be fair, paralegal and nursing programs take much longer than 12 weeks, are very strict and are regulated occupations that require a license that you can actually lose under certain circumstances.

Their purpose is to provide extra productivity and cost efficiency, but at some point they might require supervision and some procedures might exceed the skills learned during their training.

<comment><USER5> Some of the best engineers I have worked with did not learn CS in college, or even in a boot camp. They learned on the job.

Some programmers want to believe that computer science is harder than it really is, because it inflates their egos. CS is not as difficult to learn as law, or medicine, or electrical engineering, or many other disciplines for which self-taught practitioners are exceedingly rare.

Furthermore, I've seen new hires with graduate degrees in CS fail interviews horribly, or get hired and produce horrible crap, while new self-taught hires have outperformed them significantly. A degree is no guarantee of any skill level, which is unfortunate.

<comment><USER3> An abridged definition of engineering is "applying science to create technology". A software engineer applies computer science to create software based technologies. Under that definition you worked with programmers not engineers.

Then, true. You might have worked with programmers that seemed productive and learned on the job. But much of that learning happened at the expense of exposing the company and the customers to great risk.

For instance, if you are manipulating financial information, and you don't know what a floating point number is, you are eventually going to have a bad time. If you don't understand concurrency and parallelism, you might end up corrupting important data, if you are suffering networking issues and everything you know is HTTP at a high level... you are going to have a bad time. And the list goes on and on and on.

Friendly software development technologies were created to augment productivity, not to release people from the responsibility of knowing what is going on with them.

Now to your point, it is clear that not all computer science programs focus in producing highly-qualified software engineers. But that doesn't mean that you can simply skip the fundamentals.

<comment><USER14> Not all software requires the same degree of rigor in design and implementation. Software has bugs, but it sounds like you'd prefer if such software were never written in the first place. Regarding risk, it's as likely that the super-educated "engineer" drops unfiltered input directly into a SQL query as it is that Joe Programmer has the chance to corrupt data with a concurrency bug.

<comment><USER3> Bugs and defects will happen at the time of implementing functional and non- functional requirements no matter how strong your preparation and problem solving skills are. But they differ since assumptions would differ in nature.

Many people would work on a problem until it works (or stops being an obstacle). But it takes some preparation to understand if an implementation is acceptable from a non-functional requirement standpoint.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> "Average starting salary: $74,447."

So they are paying them less than they would a recent college grad by something like 25%? no wonder they love hiring people out of these things.

<comment><USER16> I think you have a somewhat distorted view of the average starting salary of a college graduate:

[http://www.naceweb.org/s11182015/starting-salary- class-2015....](http://www.naceweb.org/s11182015/starting-salary- class-2015.aspx)

<comment><USER15> Sure, but in the sentence right before that it talks about the companies hiring the graduates that are based in SF and NYC and these camps are put on in those cities so I'm assuming you don't go to these boot camps and then take a job in Kansas.

<comment><USER17> For what it's worth, when I started working in NYC in 2011 in a prominent company, I started at 65K, having graduated from a traditional college with a Computer Engineering degree.

Not saying it was a good salary, but not all college graduates start at the ludicrously high salary people keep seeing posted online.

<comment><USER7> 2nd this. Grad degrees provide a substantial boost, but not everyone can afford the debt and opportunity costs associated with a masters. Sadly, most of those that can, are in a better financial situation (family) to begin with.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> The title to this is excruciatingly obvious...</comment>


The world's two worst variable names - <AUTHOR> http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2004/03/the_worlds_two_worst_variable.html <comment><USER2> I disagree, depending on the context. Data is an acceptable variable name to refer to binary blobs that don't _have_ a type, eg, this is roughly the low level class that holds data that I'm streaming in (files may either be in a pack file or downloaded while the game is played):

class packFile { var name:String; var location:String; var downloadPriority:Int; var data:Array<Byte>; }

There may be a better name than data, but I can't think of one off the top of my head, and it's certainly not a bad one.

<comment><USER3> Another example: in my work group, "data" specifically means "measurements made in the real world." Numbers generated by a computer simulation don't qualify. So in our code, "data" could be a perfectly meaningful variable name.

Personally, the worst variable name I've ever seen was "C". This was a vector of concentrations. Unfortunately, the language was Fortran-77-- where a "C" in column 1 indicates a comment line.

<comment><USER2> Wow, I think you actually may have won. That's a terrible name for a variable given the context. You would probably have nightmares for years after maintaining a project like that :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> What it is about code written in languages that prefix variables with $ that results in unmaintainable code?

I'd personally vote for i and j

Mea Culpa: I've written my fair share of horrid code in PHP and Perl.

<comment><USER5> When you use i and j as loop indices, everybody knows what you're talking about. It's idiomatic. How is that bad variable naming if its the clearest thing for everyone?

<comment><USER6> > How is that bad variable naming if its the clearest thing for everyone?

The clearest thing for me would be:

        channel.open()

Which indicates to me that a channel is being opened.

Rather than

        i.open()

Which means nothing to me unless I find and read some other line.

<comment><USER7> Nobody's suggesting that i and j be used for anything other than loop counters: integers. In fact they come from FORTRAN, where a variable starting with a letter [i-n] was an integer, whereas variables starting with other letters were floats.

Personally, I much prefer the certainty of the current situation to the relative uncertainty of a free-for-all. That and _for (counter = 0; counter < N; counter++)_ seems very longwinded.

<comment><USER6> > Nobody's suggesting that i and j be used for anything other than loop > counters: integers

You're right, I missed the 'indices' part of your original comment. Unfortunately I've worked at a couple of places where they're used in every for loop.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Data is not that bad. When you're reading a device it may have a data and status register and data becomes perfectly distinct in this context.

<comment><USER9> Actually, _status_ is probably the one thing worse than _data_.

Runners up include _value_ , _bytes_ , and _number_.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> In a code review I once got pulled up for using 'i' in a 2-line function called something like DoSomethingToThings(Thing[] things)

</comment><comment><USER11> I think $data2 is worse than $data.

<comment><USER12> That's exactly what I thought. $data is okay if the context is very obvious but enumerating is confusing, unmaintainable.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> While programming in C I use str quite a bit. Moving to Python, that conflicts with the str builtin function, so I now use s.

</comment><comment><USER14> A really bad variable name should confuse the reader as much as possible. If I remember my compiler design classes correctly Pascal (?) allows you to name variables the same as language constructs. That means you can write something like

FOR FOR = WHILE WHILE WHILE = FOR

Now THAT'S bad variable names. :)

Isn't there an example like this in the Dragon Book?

</comment><comment><USER6> You forgot 'i'.

Yes, I know you're iterating over something.

Best case scenario: you named that something well so all I have to do in your great big for loop is scroll up, work out what you meant, and apply that to the code I care about, being mildly annoyed.

Worst case scenario: the something is also badly named and I have to open up a debugger and set a trace to work out whether the iterable is people, channels, cows, or dinosaurs.

Yes I know this is common behaviour. So are many other bad things.

<comment><USER15> If you can't figure out what the "i" is for, the code has other problems.

<comment><USER6> I didn't say it can't be figured out at all - please don't put works into my mouth.

Code is read much more than it's written and should be created for maximum comprehension. A simple one-line method call should be understandable without having to read any surrounding line.

<comment><USER16> Respectfully disagree

>Best case scenario: ... all I have to do in your great big for loop is scroll up...

Once you have to scroll up, you are toast. I mean within a function, not within a loop.

There is a rule of thumb of how many things can the mind process at the same time: It is 7 plus-minus 2. You can treat the loop as one element in the function context and analyze the loop context at a different stack frame inside your head.

While working in a loop, you have to think about the list, the index and the element, so you are down to 4 more things you can do before "running out of memory". I think that's why the "for each" loop has been successful across many languages. I also think that that's why "i" is preferred over "index"; it is a known idiom that helps you think about the "i-th element" and saves one slot in your brain.

>Worst case scenario: the something is also badly named and I have to open up a debugger and set a trace to work out whether the iterable is people, channels, cows, or dinosaurs.

Eventually, anyone who has been around for a while inherits some abomination like that. It is not funny. However, no amount of coding standards prevent morons for doing their thing. I would not sacrifice an useful and well known artifact for the sake of idiot-proofing.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Oh thank god it's not the stuff I use. My code is so bad that every time I declare a variable a fairy dies. At least there's something I'm not doing wrong.

</comment><comment><USER18> $data is a perfectly fine variable name, if it's used in the correct context. Such as pulling a result set out of a database. In that case, it's exactly like using i in a for loop.

Anything postfixed with 2 is more shady, I agree, but the absolute worst variable names are the ones that say they are something they're not - such as a column named "tablename_key" - which is actually a foreign key, but not in "tablename".

<comment><USER19> _Such as pulling a result set out of a database._

Generally, I'd disagree, as does the article. If you can specify what kind of data it is, thats useful. customer_data, sample_data, etc...

The only time I'd say you might be right is if you are using it in a generic method for retrieving data, but even then I think result_data is better.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Often when I read something from a file or socket, prior to parsing, it's called data. Same goes for the information to be inserted into a template, or intermediate structures when transforming datasets or documents without knowing their type.

Data is the variable name you use when you don't know, or can't specify, what you're dealing with.

</comment><comment><USER21> Worse than the worst variable names? Good variable names where, for example, $profit = $revenue

</comment><comment><USER22> I think that names that are wrong are worse, like something called $xmldata which doesn't contain data in xml format, or $price_in_cents which actually contains $price_in_dollars but nobody has bothered to change it.

</comment><comment><USER23> I'm guilty of using tmp quite a lot. On my defense though, it's usually just that, temporary: I end up refactoring it down the road (most of the times)!

</comment><comment><USER24> foo & bar

<comment><USER6> Particularly in teaching code.

<comment><USER25> I completely agree. I don't understand why foo and bar are so prevalent. Not only are you trying to describe something abstract (computer code), you are now adding another layer of human language abstraction on top of it. In many cases why not use a simple scenario people can relate to rather than foo and bar.

<comment><USER26> foo and bar are the Lorem Ipsum of code. They let you look at the flow without getting caught up in certain details. You look at 'for', 'while', 'if', and other operators more closely when the identifiers are place-holders.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> I don't know if $data is the 'worst'. I've used 'int nothing', and 'int anything' before.

</comment><comment><USER28> Haha, I use data all the time. Usually when I'm doing data analysis.

</comment><comment><USER19> I think I once used stuff as a variable name before.

</comment><comment><USER29> I use $dat, so I'm off the hook.

</comment><comment><USER16> $r2d2 and $c3po

...seriously</comment>


Names of the chemical elements in Chinese - <AUTHOR> http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=18877 <comment><USER2> > I was both surprised and disappointed by how hard it was to find a simple > numerical list giving the following information for each element: number, > symbol, English name, Chinese character (traditional and simplified), > Pinyin.

I find wikipedia is ze best tool for cross-language reference research

1\. go to this [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table)

2\. click the last language item on the left column

3\. you got this [http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%85%83%E7%B4%A0%E5%91%A8%E6%...](http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%85%83%E7%B4%A0%E5%91%A8%E6%9C%9F%E8%A1%A8)

<comment><USER3> Unless I'm missing something I don't see the pinyin in wikipedia's table so it still doesn't fit the author's requirements.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I've pondered on multiple occasions, what if computing was born somewhere other than the west and we had to use roman numerals and/or Chinese/Arabic for software development. I could never understand how anyone can quickly discern/read a huge dictionary of such dense and wildly intricate glyphs.

<comment><USER5> Inventing computer with Chinese/Arabic is inherently harder because it's more difficult to type such characters. Once you pass the punctuation card stage, now what? Build a huge keyboard with 10s of thousand of Chinese characters? It took 13 years for MS-DOS to support typing in Chinese.

<comment><USER6> The first solution that came into my mind, type using strokes.

Here is a list of 11 strokes:

[http://www.121chineselessons.com/wp- content/uploads/2012/02/...](http://www.121chineselessons.com/wp- content/uploads/2012/02/Chinese-Writing-Strokes.jpg?99685b)

Every word's strokes has a pre-determined "correct" order.

Once you list out the word's strokes, there are only a a couple of possibilities of characters left.

A blog post on `Chinese Python`. [http://reganmian.net/blog/2008/11/21/chinese-python- translat...](http://reganmian.net/blog/2008/11/21/chinese-python-translating- a-programming-language/)

<comment><USER7> Unfortunately, Chinese Python maps English words to 2-character Chinese words, so the translation requires spaces between the Chinese words. So

        while running:
          guess = int(raw_input('Enter integer: '))
          if guess == number:
            print 'Congratulations'
            running = False
          elif guess < number:
            print 'No, higher'
          else:
            print 'No, lower'

translates to

        當 運行:
          猜測 = 整數(輸入('輸入數字: '))
          如果 猜測 == 數字:
            印出 '恭喜'
            運行 = 假
          假使 猜測 < 數字:
            印出 '錯了, 再大'
          否則:
            印出 '錯了, 再小'

But if we map English words in programming to single Chinese _characters_ , we wouldn't need spaces, so perhaps

        當運:
          猜=整(輸('輸入數字: '))
          如猜==數:
            印'恭喜'
            運=假
          否如猜<數:
            印'錯了, 再大'
          否:
            印'錯了, 再小'

And if we made the syntax more C-like to fully make use of the spaceless syntax

        當運{
          猜=整(輸('輸入數字: '))
          如猜==數{印'恭喜';運=假}
          否如猜<數{印'錯了, 再大'}
          否{印'錯了, 再小'}
        }

One could program on one's smartphone screen on the train!

<comment><USER6> You can use semi-colons in Python to put multiple lines in one line, as well as inline blocks next to the colon. So, you can remove the braces, too. Added parenthesis for python 3.

        當運:
          猜=整(輸('輸入數字: '))
          如猜==數:印('恭喜');運=假;
          否如猜<數:印('錯了, 再大');
          否:印('錯了, 再小')

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> "The first thing we may say about the names of the chemical elements in Chinese is that every single one of them is monosyllabic. This actually causes great problems for Chinese chemists and other scientists, as well as the lay public, since there are so many homophones and near-homophones among them and with other monosyllabic words not on the list. Listening to a lecture or holding discussions that mention chemical elements and hearing the elements referred to by these monosyllabic names is challenging, to say the least."

\-- It is untrue that "[this] actually causes great problems for Chinese chemists and other scientists, as well as the lay public." Chinese is a highly context-sensitive language. If people have no difficulty in communicating with other monosyllabic characters, why would they get confused when they refers to chemical elements? That does't sound making sense.

It is definitely hard to lay public, so is the case in English for American, at least for the people I know. They have no idea what most of the chemical ingredients listed in packaged food are, which is not surprising since the majority of people don't major nor minor in chemistry in college.

It is definitely not challenging for chemists and students who study chemistry, at least not for me and my college classmates, to understand lectures and have discussions on chemistry in Chinese. For example, when one refers to 铬 (Chromium) in a discussion in chemistry, the others wouldn't confuse it with other characters with the same pronunciation and tone, like 个,各,硌, etc. based on the context.

It is correct that most of the chemical element characters were invented from scratch in the last 150 years. Is a language supposed to evolve like that? Is it the similar case in English? I know most of the new elements were named after the scientists who discovered them. But what is wrong to create a Chinese new character for a new element based on the way how most Chinese characters have been created?

Disclaimer: I have studied inorganic chemistry, organic chemistry, physical chemistry, analytical chemistry in college. If it were in US, I could have at least had a minor in chemistry.

<comment><USER9>
        > Chinese is a highly context-sensitive language. If
        > people have no difficulty in communicating with other
        > monosyllabic characters, why would they get confused
        > when they refers to chemical elements? That does't sound
        > making sense.

From what you quoted, emphasis my own.

        > "there are so many homophones and near-homophones *among them*"

If the context is "chemical elements", and lots of them sound very similar, I suspect that's going to be a problem.

<comment><USER8> I think it is a false statement that "there are so many homophones". In mainland system, I haven't found two elements with the same (pronunciation, tone). They could sound the same for non-native speakers, but they sound different for native speakers. I don't think this is hard to understand.

<comment><USER10> How do Chinese people differentiate 珠 "pearl" from 朱 "vermilion" in a spoken context such as "What material is best worn by an emperor?" These seem to be homophones, yet the words are similar enough in usage that it may not be clear from the context which one is meant (as opposed to 豬 "pig" which again has the same pronunciation but is less likely to be ambiguous).

<comment><USER11> There are other equivalent words. For instance, 珍珠 for pearl (I actually never heard anyone use 珠 alone). No idea what "vermilion" means in your question. If it refers to the color, then you can say "朱红" or "朱红色". In fact, very few words in spoken Chinese are monosyllabic, so it is highly unlikely to confuse a chemical element with other things. Moreover, you can always say "chemical element" \+ 元素 (element) or 原子 (atom) if you are afraid of confusing people; for instance, 氢原子,碳元素, though it is hardly necessary, as I never encountered the problem the author described in my 5+ years of studying chemistry in Chinese.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> >The vast majority of the Chinese characters for the elements contain the "gold / metal" radical 金. Next in number are characters that contain the "gas / vapor" radical 气. After that comes a smaller group of characters containing the "stone / rock" radical 石. Last, there are two characters that contain the water radical 氵/ 水: xiù 溴 ("bromine") and gǒng 汞 ("mercury"). In terms of the classification of the elements by state (solid, liquid, gas, unknown) and type (metals [alkali metals, alkaline earth metals, lanthanoids, actinoids, transition metals, post-transition metals], nonmetals [halogens, noble gases, other nonmentals]), and metalloids, the division (according to character radicals) into metal, gas, stone, and water is not accurate.

Didn't anyone tell them to make their primary keys factless? By encoding all this information in the name they'll never be able to change it if they discover some new fact about it that contradicts all this information they put in the primary key.

<comment><USER13> We have this in English too. Helium's not only found on the sun. Oxygen is not an essential component of acids. Etc.

Fortunately, in chemistry, the symbol is more of the primary key than the name. Or, really, the primary key is the atomic number -- which is certainly not factless, but the facts follow from it as a result of nature; you don't have to worry that things will change and it won't work anymore.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> just want to point out that is traditional Chinese which only used in Taiwan, no main land.

<comment><USER15> It isn't.

Traditional Chinese widely used in China town all over the world, in Macao, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Guang Dong.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> In China, almost every dictionary book has a back cover containing periodic table.

</comment><comment><USER11> The author clearly has limited knowledge about Chinese. Most of his/her claims are wrong.

<comment><AUTHOR> Wow.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_H._Mair](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_H._Mair)</comment></comment>


Photorealistic 3D Renderings - <AUTHOR> http://blog.cgtrader.com/2013/02/27/grab-an-inspiration-30-most-photorealistic-3d-renderings/

<comment><USER2> While interesting from a technical level, the increased fidelity of 3D renders is also opening up new commercial applications. Case in point: 25% of next years Ikea catalog will be renders:

[http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/23/3262234/ikea-replace- photo...](http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/23/3262234/ikea-replace- photograph-3d-renders-catalog)

<comment><AUTHOR> That's actually a great point, thanks for sharing the article!

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> The classroom's flash illumination looks so realistic! Couln't tell it's not a photo..

<comment><USER4> I love the idea of sharing the code behind making grungy-looking renders like this.

import polaroid

import dust

import smudgyLens

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> "Bits of bread" would have been even more realistic with some breadcrumbs here and there.

<comment><AUTHOR> Must have a been a tidy eater :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> In case you just skimmed through the descriptions, the library renders are actually stills from an animation: <http://vimeo.com/7809605>

It's really quite something. Made a big stir when it was released a few years back. Still amazing.

</comment><comment><USER7> Amazing to the point I can't believe it!

</comment><comment><USER8> Wow! That's Amazing!

</comment><comment><USER9> Wow - check the inter dimensional predator!

<comment><AUTHOR> that does not seem so realistic though :D</comment></comment>


Show HN: Nine9s: No-fuss uptime monitoring for developers - <AUTHOR> https://nine9s.cloud/?ref=hn <comment><AUTHOR> Developer here!

Nine9s is a service providing simple, no-fuss uptime monitoring for developers on a budget. If you're in the market for inexpensive, but powerful, Uptime Monitoring, then please check out Nine9s. It's got text message, email, and Webhook alerts and a full REST API.

Announcement Blog Post: [https://brianschrader.com/](https://brianschrader.com/)

Product Roadmap: [https://nine9s.cloud/kb/feature- roadmap](https://nine9s.cloud/kb/feature-roadmap)

Nine9s and the Environment: [https://nine9s.cloud/kb/infrastructure](https://nine9s.cloud/kb/infrastructure)</comment>


Windows PowerShell Tutorial - <AUTHOR> http://www.dispatchertimer.com/tutorial/windows-powershell-tutorial/ <comment><USER3> PowerShell would have been awesome if it were a proper superset of bash and they released the code under a GPL, Apache or BSD kind of license.

<comment><USER4> PowerShell _is_ awesome. A shell with proper intellisense, a real object pipeline, string interpolation and cool meta-programming facilities - <USER2> mention just a few areas where it runs rings around bash.

<comment><USER5> There is even PSReadline - [https://github.com/lzybkr/PSReadLine](https://github.com/lzybkr/PSReadLine)</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: How to monetize written content? - <AUTHOR> After Medium Memberships came out, I started thinking about a few other ways to monetize written media. What do you all think?
1. Allow readers to pay authors directly
At the bottom of each article, readers can donate/pay the author to support their content writing. Two benefits here - content writers are incentivized to create great content frequently, and readers get more content. This creates a direct connection between content authors & readers, and builds on top of the network of freelance writing that already exists out there. The publisher, like Medium, would incur revenue via service fees. This currently exists on Medium for publishers, but it should exist for all authors.
2. Sell consulting services via expertise gathered from the content and content authors
The most valuable data in media companies like the NY Times isn't the articles, but the authors themselves. Many niche journalists have extraordinary expertise and connections in certain industries - such as food, fashion, and so forth. Leveraging their expertise and building a consulting business on top of it would be mutually beneficial. The content naturally promotes the consulting business, and the consulting business validates the content. This is similar to what Priceonomics does. <comment><USER2> The important question is: Why are you writing the content? What is your goal?

If your goal is to be a writer, to publish content, then you might need to charge for the content. You could write a book and charge for purchasing it, you could write a blog with affiliate links, or you could signup for something like medium subscriptions.

If your goal is to drive customers to your business (which could be your book!), then of course you shouldn't charge for the content; you should spend your time optimizing _what_ you write about and how you direct users to your business.

Content marketing is a very powerful inbound user funnel. But you can't just write a bunch of content and hope it converts into users. You need to be systematic it and realize that it is the widest part of your inbound user funnel. The goal should always be to "convert" the maximum percentage of readers by pushing them further into the funnel (e.g. by signing up for your newsletter). You need to identify the correct audience, write interesting content for that audience, and then carefully drive readers to engage with your content via some call-to-action that pushes them into the next part of your funnel.

</comment><comment><USER3> [http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/2015/11/how-to- make-...](http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/2015/11/how-to-make-paypal- tip-jar.html)

You can also use Patreon.

 _Many niche journalists have extraordinary expertise and connections in certain industries - such as food, fashion, and so forth. Leveraging their expertise and building a consulting business on top of it would be mutually beneficial._

This likely has inherent conflict of interest. Journalists are supposed to be objective.

I have spent a lot of years contemplating this problem space. I want my audience to support my writing, not some third party with god-knows-what ulterior motives.

[http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/2016/05/aligning- you...](http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/2016/05/aligning-your-goals- and-your.html)

</comment><comment><USER4> So, there was a recent post on one author's experience monetizing his (technical) writing : [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13876514](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13876514)

Unlike the strategies you list above, some authors in the HN discussion pursued a tiered approach, with the book as the most basic "level" of reward.

</comment><comment><USER5> 1\. Hits the classic micropayments problem. People are unlikely to pay an amount for a single article which is profitable, given credit card fees, to process.

Various people have tried various workarounds for that, but a really successful one has yet to emerge (although I believe the Dutch publishing startup whose name I can't remember is gaining some traction with this model).</comment>


Where to find friends that are programmers - <AUTHOR>

I have not found one person who shares my passion to program.<p>Where do you think one should go to find others that take programming as a passion, and seriously? <comment><USER2> If you don't live in a "startup hub," it might be difficult but not impossible. Here in San Francisco, there are tons of tech meetups on meetup.com. If you can't find any tech meetups in your city, start one! A simple one to start is simply, "Shut up and code!" or something similar, where you literally just sit in a coffee shop, cowork, and talk to each other if you want to.

That reminds me, coworking spaces will usually give you a day pass or a few days. Check those out.

Good luck!

</comment><comment><USER3> One advantage to the olde hub-and-spoke maniframe plus terminal model: programmers had to congregate in the 'terminal room' at the university. I miss those days. I found lifelong friends there.

</comment><comment><USER4> If a physical presence is not required, there are plenty of online communities of varying quality. I personally think that you should be able to find some interesting people by poking around some open source projects, but your luck will vary there.

</comment><comment><USER5> I've met them at programmer meetups for certain technologies, conferences, local user-groups and startup weekends/gamejams.

</comment><comment><USER6> A local university? Any local tech employers? Are there any tech conferences held near you?

<comment><AUTHOR> Maybe some in Denver, but I am 15

<comment><USER6> When we were 8 my mom would drive us to the UIUC computer lab and drop us off. We would just hang out until the computer operators sat us down at a terminal with spacewar or something.

Just do it. Go up to the university, find out where the CS professors and grad students work. Stand in doorways and eavesdrop. Tell them you're 15 but you really really love programming and want to meet some experts in computer science. Ask if there's anywhere you can hang out and quietly soak up the atmosphere.

It will make their day.

Also: are you on Twitter? Tweet me @marshray and I'll ask my followers if there's anyone in Denver.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Where are you? Any co-working spaces near you? We're spoiled here in the SF Bay Area.

</comment><comment><USER8> Do u want to give shape to your ideas?

contact email@example.com</comment>


Ask HN: Starting Your Own LLC? - <AUTHOR> I want to start my firm in the USA to channelize my  creative endeavors. What are the nuts and bolts of starting your own firm? I can register an LLC online, but what else should I know? e.g Filing taxes, choosing between different corporations etc. What did you wish you knew , when you started yours? What are some good resources ? <comment><USER2> 1) Doing taxes correctly as anything other than a sole proprietorship is a huge pain in the ass, especially if you're selling things across state borders, and doubly so if you're in California. I recommend finding a tax professional to handle that for you (the time it takes to do it yourself is generally not worth it). Also don't forget that if you're actually making money you'll need to pay estimated taxes quarterly.

2) Either learn basic accounting (if you don't already) and keep excellent records of all revenue and expenses business-related (ideally categorized into standard business categories) or find a CPA to keep your records straight monthly. A huge number of people get burned simply because they didn't keep proper records and then ran into tax or regulatory trouble later.

3) Definitely keep your business finances as separate from your personal funds as possible. Different checking account, different credit card, etc.

4) Think really hard before you hire anyone for anything, and if you do, make sure you're either doing 1099 correctly or get a professional to help with W2 stuff. Again, this is something that often comes back to bite people.

And lastly, remember that most businesses fail and that failing at business is not something to be ashamed of. If it's not working out, don't make yourself miserable and mortgage your future to try and save it indefinitely - walk away and try again with the lessons you learned.

<comment><USER3> Note that a single-person LLC can file taxes as a pass-thru entity, which is essentially the same as a sole proprietorship. You do still need to separate your finances/accounts/etc tho.

<comment><USER4> Being a single-person LLC usually doesn't give you any of the legal advantages of having an LLC in case you get sued.

<comment><USER5> I talked to a lawyer about this and the feedback I received was while technically they might be able to sue to try and receive compensation even from your personal assets if you are a single-member LLC as long as you can show you were acting in good faith and as an agent of the company (i.e. you didn't personally guarantee the work and sign your name instead of the company's and you maintain distinct records and finances for the business), then it is unlikely to get approved in a court of law.

So an example here might be that you were working for a client and work wasn't fully completed on time. You made a good faith effort to get the work done, so while the company you were working for might be entitled to compensation from your LLC they can't come after your house.

Finally, let me caveat all this by saying that the standards for "piercing the corporate veil" vary by state and as always you should consult with a lawyer before making a final determination. Also, another work around is to form a multi-member LLC and hold formal annual meetings. This is normally enough for most states to consider the LLC as a separate distinct entity and prevent piercing of the corporate veil.

<comment><USER4> I also discussed this with the SBA and multiple attorneys (attorneys make up most of my clients, btw).

Here in NY, piercing the corporate veil is a bit easier than in other states. More importantly, if someone attempts to go down that road, you have to spend the time and resources ($$$) to defend your position. In general you're best off just starting in the strongest possible position to start with, and usually that means splitting the decision making responsibility. If you want to avoid all that hassle, just go the SP route.

In my original comment I made the mistake of saying "any" instead of "all"

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I wrote answers for a number of these questions for Stripe Atlas; c.f. [https://stripe.com/atlas/guides/incorporation](https://stripe.com/atlas/guides/incorporation) , [https://stripe.com/atlas/guides/business- taxes](https://stripe.com/atlas/guides/business-taxes), and the [https://stripe.com/atlas/guides](https://stripe.com/atlas/guides) more generally.

If there are holes after reading them, we'd love to hear about them.

<comment><USER7> patio11, I have a bunch of questions about Stripe Atlas (sorry that this is long):

\- _Should a subsidiary of a foreign company be an LLC or C Corp?_ I've read [https://stripe.com/atlas/guides/llc-vs-c- corp](https://stripe.com/atlas/guides/llc-vs-c-corp) and if I were to own the company directly, I certainly would go for a C Corp to avoid having to report the company's taxes on my personal U.S. tax returns. But it's not clear to me whether it's better for a subsidiary to be an LLC or C Corp. (I'm leaning towards C Corp, but don't want to miss out on any benefits of having the subsidiary be an LLC.)

\- _Can I transfer 100% of my U.S. subsidiary 's revenue to the foreign parent company, and write off the entirety of that amount as a business expense?_ So, my U.S. subsidiary's income would be zero, with everything that was repatriated to the parent company subtracted as a fully deductible business expense. Is this okay under U.S. tax law? Or would this be considered tax evasion? (Would the U.S. company even have to file a state or federal income tax return, since its income after business expense deductions is zero?)

(Note: The sole reason I want a U.S. company via Stripe Atlas is because Stripe is the best payment gateway out there. It makes receiving money from customers a lot easier, which is to put lightly, _quite important_.)

\- If I directly own a C Corp, _will I ever have to report anything connected to it_ on my personal U.S. tax returns? (I assume with a subsidiary I never would have to.) Also, will Stripe ask me to disclose my U.S. Social Security number, or would a foreign passport be sufficient? And, does Stripe Atlas transmit any data on company ownership to the federal government? Since temporary work/other visa holders are prohibited from running a startup on the side, there can't be anything (that's discoverable by the Dept of Homeland Security) tying me to the U.S. company. (It's just that people have been deported for selling apps, receiving ad revenue, among other things: [https://www.murthy.com/2014/01/28/home-based-businesses- inad...](https://www.murthy.com/2014/01/28/home-based-businesses-inadvertent- unauthorized-employment/))

\- _How does succession for intellectual property work for companies?_ If the company is shut down, can I designate myself as the "inheritor"/beneficiary of all the property that the company held prior to its dissolution?

\- _Can I convert a subsidiary into a normal company that is directly owned by me?_ There is a high probability that I will dissolve the foreign parent company once I get U.S. permanent residency (but that could take a few years).

\- _Do I need to use the Delaware registered agent that Stripe Atlas offers_ its customers for $100/year? (I want to use the one offered by VirtualPostMail instead: [https://www.virtualpostmail.com/services/registered- agent](https://www.virtualpostmail.com/services/registered-agent))

Finally, patio11, is the email address _info at stripe dot com_ the best email to reach out for further questions such as these?

<comment><USER8> At the risk of seeming unduly negative, I'd like to take a swing at this last question of yours:

> is the email address info at stripe dot com the best email to reach out for > further questions such as these?

I do not work for Stripe, never have, but I can state with near-certainty that the answer to this question is "absolutely not."

Stripe are not going to give you advice on how to violate U.S. immigration law and not get caught. If you are living in the U.S. on a visa that does not allow employment beyond the terms of your visa, you are asking Stripe to give you advice on how to break the law and there's zero chance that any business-- especially one so deep into financial services like Stripe are--will be OK with doing that.

If you have to ask questions with a caveat like this:

> there can't be anything (that's discoverable by the Dept of Homeland > Security) tying me to the U.S. company.

then you are playing with fire, _particularly_ under this administration, running the risk of being deported and receiving a 10-year ban on reentry at all (to say nothing of destroying your chances at ever getting a work permit again) and I strongly suggest you reconsider what it is you are considering doing.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> For more nuts and bolts: I'm a part-time law professor and do a fair amount of (pro bono) mentoring and lecturing for local academic institutions about "Startup Law 101." In lieu of handing out the slides, I maintain a Web page with summaries and links to further reading. [0]

(The page includes links to lots of HN discussions in this area; depending on how this discussion goes, I might add it as well.)

[0] [https://www.oncontracts.com/startup- law/](https://www.oncontracts.com/startup-law/)

</comment><comment><USER10> It's also worth noting that you don't need an LLC to "channelize your creative endeavors".

You can take money from other people for goods and services you provide without any legal structure behind it. IRS has forms to report such income (and related business expenses).

A step-up is a DBA registration in your city hall. It's still just you, nothing changes from point of view of IRS, you can just use a name for your business that is different that your own.

An LLC is a significant step-up in terms of complexity and cost and many people cargo cult it (i.e. they think they need an LLC for reasons they can't put into words but it's something what other people are doing).

<comment><USER11> LLC stands for limited liability company. What makes it different than a DBA is that a LLC gives you limited liability. If your LLC is sued, you're protected personally from losing assets. Regardless, many people don't need it and a DBA suffices until the liability gets too high.

<comment><USER12> > If your LLC is sued, you're protected personally from losing assets.

A lawyer friend once told me that anyone can sue anyone at any time for anything. A good lawyer will sue the LLC and the owner of the LLC. Even if the defendant is found to not be liable, it won't feel like a victory when the invoice from the defendant's attorney arrives.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I've helped hundreds of creatives figure out their formation + taxes in the past couple of years. Here're my top learnings:

\- LLC formation is not just filing the article of organization. Make sure to get an EIN, an operating agreement (Google operating agreement + your state for templates), get a business license, open a business bank account ([https://www.azlo.com](https://www.azlo.com) is great), make initial contribution (don't worry, it's your money). This makes sure that your LLC is set up right (some states won't give you limited liability, if you don't do it right).

\- In most states, LLCs are pass-through entities, meaning you'll file your taxes via Schedule C and pay 15.3% self-employment tax. If you plan to make $60K or more in profit, consider filing for S Corporation (significant tax benefits)

\- Get a decent bookkeeping software and do your books right from day one (it pays off). Quickbooks online is great. Connect your business bank account, categorize your expenses, close your books at least quarterly.

\- Pay your quarterly taxes. Even though the penalty is not huge, you'll avoid getting a huge tax bill at the end of the year

\- You may be able to manage doing your own taxes for a while, but if you're serious about this, find a tax preparer to do your taxes. If you pick SCorp route, definitely get one, as it's a separate tax return and a lot more involved (i.e running payroll)

\- If you go SCorp route, make sure you get the reasonable compensation right. Run yourself regular payroll ([https://www.gustom.com](https://www.gustom.com) is great) and get K1 distribution every now and then. Pass your health insurance via your S-Corp

\- Invest in Sole 401K. Investing in retirement is always a good idea and you'll save a lot in taxes.

\- There are a couple of all-in-one services that can help with all. If you're doing freelancing/contracting [https://www.hyke.me](https://www.hyke.me) is great. If you're selling apps, doing ecommerce etc [https://www.stripe.com/atlas](https://www.stripe.com/atlas) is great.

Hope helps.

<comment><USER14> To add to the point regarding 401k. As a business owner you can set aside something like 56K a year in 401k pre-tax (not to exceed 25% of gross income IIRC). Go to Fidelity and Vanguard and search for "Solo 401k" to get started.

<comment><USER13> The new www.guideline.com doing a good job there as well

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> The Clerky handbook is worth a read: [https://handbook.clerky.com/](https://handbook.clerky.com/)

They offer services for incorporation too. Never used them so cannot speak about their service level. Seems to be a preferred choice for some YC startups. Then of course there is LegalZoom. They are around since 2001.

<comment><USER16> I've skimmed through it, and it's a fine guide if you're starting a traditional startup that plans to raise money.

If you're starting any other kind of business it's a little over kill.

Generally registering an LLC, applying for a business license and then requesting a Tax ID number from the IRS is really all you need for a web based business of 1 person.

<comment><USER17> > applying for a business license

what is it for " a web based business"?

<comment><USER16> I guess I'm not really understanding your question.

In order to legally do business and report on your taxes (in washington state for example) you need to register your entity as a business with the state -- in the form of a business license.

I only used the phrase "web based business" assuming you have no physical property (retail) or employees which add additional licensing requirements and more complexity.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Pay attention to the annual filing fees in your state for LLCs. That makes it prohibitive in some states for small side-project type endeavors. (MA filing fees are $500 registration and $500/yr for the annual report filing.)

<comment><USER19> And if you end up close to the end of the year before filing, hold off until January to form the LLC if you can. Otherwise they'll expect the annual fees ($800 in California!) for the partial year. And if you end up paying late, they'll come for the penalty as well.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> What would you fine people advice for a single guy making money through a website in Europe? What kind of corporation? At how much revenue do I need to think about that? How much money (and time) does it cost per year? How does it differ among EU countries? What do I need to take care of, when I take money from customers around the world?

</comment><comment><USER21> Single member LLC wasn't as hard as I thought to setup. 100 bucks online in Oregon, near instant approval too. Make sure you sign up with the IRS for an EIN.

Signed up for Azlo just recently after keeping money in my personal, no big deal just makes taxes a little harder.

Make sure you keep records of everything. Get yourself a good receipt scanner that does OCR, like neat. Keep the physicals around too.

I'm not bothering with a lawyer, CPA until I start having a lot more cash flow. Right now it's enough for me to manage, but I will get professionals to manage in the future.

One thing I wish I did was not use my residence as the address. Oh well, too late for that.

<comment><USER22> _Signed up for Azlo just recently after keeping money in my personal, no big deal just makes taxes a little harder._

That actually is a big deal.

[https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/personal- liability-p...](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/personal-liability- piercing-corporate-veil-33006.html)

 _Commingling assets. Small business owners may be more likely than their larger counterparts to commingle their personal assets with those of the corporation or LLC. For example, some small business owners divert corporate assets for their own personal use by writing a check from the company account to make a payment on a personal mortgage -- or by depositing a check made payable to the corporation into the owner 's personal bank account. This is called "commingling of assets." To avoid trouble, the corporation should maintain its own bank account and the owner should never use the company account for personal use or deposit checks payable to the company in a personal account._

<comment><USER21> I still don't think it's a big deal. Single member llc are taxed on your personal (unless you opt differently but then you should have someone else handle it). It's the people that don't keep good records that get in trouble. Separating accounts won't fully protect you if you do something dumb either. You can still take an owner draw whenever you want, irs don't care.

But yes, had I known azlo existed I would have signed up from the start. I just wasn't about ready to pay a big bank a monthly fee when I wasn't making money yet.

<comment><USER23> It's only a big deal if someone sues you and wins. If you comingle assets there's an increased risk you could lose them in a judgement. If you don't comingle there's lower risk of losing personal assets.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> One tip that's not specific to LLCs but that I nearly missed: don't forget to check if the city you're based in has its own business licensing/taxing requirements. For example, in San Jose you need to pay $150/year for a "business license", even if you're just working from home by yourself.

</comment><comment><USER25> i don't have any experience with Stripe Atlas. here are the highlights of their offering.

Enables founders to assign relevant IP to the company at formation, formalizing ownership of key technology.

Is designed to make conversion to a C Corporation as simple as possible. (We can connect Stripe Atlas users to a lawyer to manage the conversion process with discounted, flat-rate packages).

Provides a simplified process for adding members after formation.

Is organized in Delaware, the jurisdiction of choice for many new LLCs.

[https://stripe.com/blog/atlas-llc](https://stripe.com/blog/atlas-llc)

</comment><comment><USER11> So 4 years ago, me and a couple of partners decided to start an online website selling vaporizers. Our supplier told us he was using Stripe and so we applied for a seller account. I stupidly put my personal information to get up and running quickly. In the next few days, I get an email from Stripe that vaporizers are prohibited and they can't accept the payments. We were surprised but moved on since we couldn't do anything.

So we eventually scrape the project and I move on to a new website selling electronics. I signed up for a new Stripe account, but immediately got an email from stripe saying:

"our banking partners prohibit us from helping with payments associated with a business we've had to reject previously."

Has anyone faced this or had any recourse? This was 4 years ago and now I am pursuing building a SaaS using Stripe Connect and using Stripe Atlas. Whenever I reached out to Stripe back then, only response I got was decisions are final.

Are all those doors closed for me since I made a stupid mistake years ago?

<comment><USER26> Since you used your personal information previously, can't you use the business information this time?

From Stripe's perspective (as well as your business's), wouldn't this application be from a different business though the owner/proprietor is the same?

EDIT: spelling

<comment><USER11> Even if you put in your company's info, they need a real person connected to the account.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Isn't Delaware $300 a year to have an LLC there?

Shouldn't you pick a state that has little to no annual filing fee?

[https://www.llcuniversity.com/llc-filing-fees-by- state/](https://www.llcuniversity.com/llc-filing-fees-by-state/)

<comment><USER28> If you register your LLC in a different state from where you live, you need to hire a Registered Agent in that state for legal reasons, which adds a bit of cost (about $100-200 per year) and some complexity.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I hate how this information is so spread out so I will try to condense this:

(1) Register your domain name and setup email (GSuite is simple enough). I put this first, because it is nice to have all the business communications actually going to the business email, so you don't start intermixing with your personal email.

(2) Next, I'd recommend hiring a local lawyer for the LLC filing and paperwork, not because you can't do it yourself, but because they can do it a lot faster and will help find any mistakes throughout the entire process. (they do this all the time) You will basically end up using them to file the Articles of Organization, act as your registered agent (avoids having to put your name and address directly on file with the SoS office), and they typically have boiler plate Operating Agreements that you can use to bootstrap your own.

(3) Next, you (or your lawyer) need to file Articles of Organization with the Secretary of State's office and pay the filing fee. (Normally $100 or so) You'll typically have to renew this registration annually. Your lawyer can take care of it.

(4) You then need to decide how you will be taxed. Your basic choices are to be taxed like a sole proprietorship or as an S Corp. I would choose S corp, so that you can save on taxes. When you go this route you will select a "reasonable salary" for yourself to be paid. Anything you earn above and beyond your reasonable salary you can take as a distribution from the company, which is not subject to self-employment taxes. If you go the sole proprietor route it is simpler (you report income on your schedule c for the IRS), but everything is subject to self-employment taxes.

(5) If going the S Corp route you will want to obtain an FEIN([https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self- employe...](https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self- employed/apply-for-an-employer-identification-number-ein-online)) and file form 2553 with the IRS for the subchapter S election. You have a limited window to do this, so do it shortly after filing the Articles of Organization. If you have an accountant they can assist you or do this for you. (6) Next I'd recommend getting a payroll company to run your payroll if you've gone the S Corp route. (Something like Square Payroll [https://squareup.com/payroll/](https://squareup.com/payroll/)) They take care of filing all the required forms with your state and will make it really easy for you should you ever add additional employees beyond yourself. What are some of these forms? They vary by state, but to give you an idea here is a look at the items for the state of Oklahoma ([https://squareup.com/help/us/en/article/6319?utm_medium=web&...](https://squareup.com/help/us/en/article/6319?utm_medium=web&utm_source=dashboard)):

\- Withholding Payment Coupon (WTH 10004)

\- Wage Withholding Tax Return (WTH 10001)

\- Transmittal of Wage and Tax Statements (OK W-3)

\- Wage and Tax Statement (W-2)

\- Employer's Quarterly Contribution Report (OES-3)

\- New Hire Report

(7) This leads to the next item, which is you likely need to register for a state tax ID and a state unemployment insurance ID and then input those IDs into your payroll provider's system. Again this varies by state, but normally each state has some analog of this.

(8) Make sure you create an Operating Agreement. It is an important governance document for your LLC. Your lawyer can help bootstrap you here or you can find samples online. Although, not strictly required it is an important document in establishing your LLC as a legitimate LLC and not just an extension of yourself. It helps prevent "piercing of the corporate veil" in instances where you might be sued. (i.e. keeping your personal assets protected in the event of a lawsuit)

(9) Hire an accountant (if you haven't already) to handle the K-1s and taxes of the LLC. This saves you time and potential penalties that you might run into in making a mistake with filing.

(10) Use some software like Quickbooks Online or similar to track your accounting. Bonus here if your payroll feeds directly into your accounting software.

(11) Get a Small Business Credit Card like this one from AMEX ([https://www.americanexpress.com/us/credit- cards/business/bus...](https://www.americanexpress.com/us/credit- cards/business/business-credit-cards/american-express-blue-business-plus- credit-card-amex/45094?linknav=US-Acq-GCP-BusinessCards-ViewAllCards- CardTitle-BlueForBusinessPlus)). You are going to have expenses and you might as well get some points while you're at it. Also, easier to track expenses. The bonus with these too is if you add employees then their travel expenses are tracked and you get the points for them as well.

That's all the basics to get the LLC operational. Obviously there are things like business plans, industry specific compliance regulations and certifications(not typical of software companies though), health insurance, etc., but this is a basic list to meet the requirements of the federal and state government. Good luck!

<comment><USER29> That S-Corp trick, the "reasonable compensation" thing, is an audit flag; there is apparently a whole specialized kind of audit the IRS does for "reasonable compensation" claims (presumably because it's so easy to spot mechanically; your single-member firm made X, you claimed X-n income, X-n>threshold: audit). I wouldn't bother with it.

<comment><USER30> When I was a self-employed contractor several years ago my CPA did it this way for my LLC. 50% of the income went on a W-2 and 50% on a K-1. It's up to each person to decide their own risk level but my CPA was pretty confident it wasn't a big deal as long as the W-2 salary wasn't absurdly low, and my own googling at the time seemed to confirm that.

It's definitely worth it IMO since you're double-paying FICA taxes on your W-2 (i.e. paying both the employee + employer sides).

<comment><USER29> You're not "double paying" taxes. The employer portion of your taxes when you're an FTE isn't free money; it's part of your cost basis as an employee, and comes out of your comp.

<comment><USER5> He wasn't implying it was free money. He simply means you're paying the employer's portion as well when you are self-employed. There is no reason to do this on excess income once you have paid yourself a reasonable salary. To determine a reasonable salary simply examine what you would make if you were employed in that same job function by another company. If you are ever audited you can show you made a good faith effort to determine reasonable salary and you will be fine. Many people set it lower than typical industry rates and are never even audited, because frankly the IRS has better things to do. It typically needs to be dramatically below what you would make in industry for you to be audited. Talk to any CPA and they'll tell you the same thing. Taking excess profits from an LLC as a distribution is an entirely legal and appropriate thing to do.

<comment><USER29> If you're filing as an LLC, I don't believe any of your income, distribution or otherwise, is exempt from self-employment tax.

<comment><USER5> There is no such thing as "filing as an LLC". When you form an LLC by default the IRS considers the LLC a disregarded entity and will tax you just as if you were a sole proprietorship. (i.e. you will report your income on schedule c) You can however elect to have your LLC taxed as an S Corporation. In which case you have to pay yourself a reasonable salary and then you can take a distribution on any excess income above your reasonable salary. When you take a distribution from an S Corp it is only subject to ordinary income tax. You do NOT pay self-employment tax on distributions. If you don't believe me you can read it on TurboTax's website ([https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax- tips/small-business-taxes/ho...](https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/small- business-taxes/how-an-s-corp-can-reduce-your-self-employment-taxes/L4abUcaRn)) or any number of websites for that matter.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Spending money on legal entities for is an expensive way to find out you have no know idea what you are doing (speaking from personal experience here). My guidance is worry about driving revenue. If you have a customer that wants to give you money, that is a great time to figure out what you actually need. Everyone will take your money and sell you something that sounds like what you wanted. It doesn't take that long to set up a legal entity, and even paying more for a rush job will be cheaper than starting the wrong legal entity now.

</comment><comment><USER31> I used to work at a company that did incorporations so I may simply be parroting the company sales pitch here, but I did get the honest impression that finding a company that helps you incorporate can really save you some huge headaches later on. The state where you incorporate can have a huge impact on a number of things and a company that specializes in this can steer you clear of some minefields. It will cost more but I think it's very likely to be worth it.

</comment><comment><USER32> Sounds like you want a Single Member LLC. This is the easiest to start. From a tax perspective you can file as a Disregarded Entity, which means you'll report taxes your (the owner's) personal tax return.

I've started a few different business this way and the nicest thing about a disregarded entity is that if you need to sell or fold the business, you won't have any complicated forms to fill out with the IRS. You just stop reporting the following year.

</comment><comment><USER33> Don't use LegalZoom. I've been a customer of them for years, but I'm trying to transition off of them. Stripe has a project to replace them, I think.

</comment><comment><USER34> Hopefully this provides a good intro to LLCs to you [https://medium.com/@parissathena/what-the-hell-c-is-an- llc-l...](https://medium.com/@parissathena/what-the-hell-c-is-an-llc-llcs-for- newbies-24a42eb1bb56)

Pariss is also talking about LLC on Twitter you might want to follow her

</comment><comment><USER35> Here is a good blog post that goes through all the various options for legal structures for starting a business

[https://www.toptal.com/finance/interim-cfos/c-corp-vs-s- corp](https://www.toptal.com/finance/interim-cfos/c-corp-vs-s-corp)

</comment><comment><USER36> A) learn enough accounting so educated and motivated crooks couldn't take you for a ride so easy. B) Check point A C) Check point B D) Try to find reasonable person that can do payroll,taxes etc for you,as otherwise you'll be a full time accountant for your own business in no time..

</comment><comment><USER37> Get a lawyer and get an accountant. Don't do your own taxes. Don't try to file paperwork for business things if you're not 100% confident that you'll do it completely correctly. The $300 you spend on a lawyer to file something will save you thousands in the long run.

</comment><comment><USER38> If you are open for a full solution (formation + taxes) these guys did an amazing job for me - www.hyke.me

</comment><comment><USER39> I don't see the point of an LLC if you plan to have an outside investor. The LLC will have to be converted to regular corporation (typically. C Corp) anyway.

The LLC makes it easy to pass profits through but if you don't have any yet...what's the point?

<comment><USER40> A Delaware LLC can be easily converted to a Delaware C. During early stages, an LLC is easier to manage with less reporting and paperwork. An LLC gives limited liability and a receptacle for IP rights. While taxes at this point won't be an issue, they're simpler.

[https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/converting-llc- corpo...](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/converting-llc-corporation- s-corporation-delaware.html)

[https://www.delawareinc.com/blog/how-to-convert-your-llc- to-...](https://www.delawareinc.com/blog/how-to-convert-your-llc-to-a- corporation/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> I made a simple website to walk you through the nuts and bolts of starting an LLC or S Corp: [https://www.startmybusiness.us/](https://www.startmybusiness.us/). Let me know if you find it useful!

</comment><comment><USER40> I would think that an LLC would be the simplest thing to manage during early formation. It is simple and low maintenance. Then convert that to a Delaware C which has greater reporting overhead, ..., when necessary.

Any downsides to that approach?

</comment><comment><USER42> Add to your list to research corporate structures because LLCs are not always the best choice. A lot of people assume LLC is right for them based on advice from friends, but it's something to think through.

<comment><USER29> For a solo operator an LLC is probably always the best choice. LLCs can elect to file taxes as S-Corps (your accountant is going to do this for you when you get to the point where your taxes are complicated enough). Sole proprietorships have all the downsides of an LLC and none of the potential upsides. C-Corps are complicated and are useful primarily when you have investors; if you take investment from an actual fund, they're going to want to rip up and re-do your corporate structure anyways.

</comment></comment><comment><USER43> I've used LegalZoom twice. Once for a corp, another for an LLC, it was easy both times. Other than that, I'd say it's helpful to have a good CPA.

<comment><USER44> Please don't use these sorts of services. Even if you technically can be savvy and avoid all their fees and things, they're dishonest and try to tack them on constantly for things you may or may not need (eg. for making them a registered agent, unnecessary credit checks, etc.). Even if it is possible to make it work and avoid most of this, don't support their business model. Chances are you'll pay more in hidden fees than just learning to do it yourself (which is probably find if you're just filing an LLC, not fine if you need advise on whether an LLC is the right business vehicle for you) or the few hundred dollars a lawyer will charge you to file an LLC.

</comment></comment><comment><USER45> Just want to give a shout-out to all the other sole proprietorships out there. It's a nice route to follow if you hate paperwork and legal fees.

</comment><comment><USER46> One lead-in question: are you in the USA? If not, most advice is going to be fraught as hell. Assuming you are: this is a well-paved path these days.

A few things as they come to mind (and, disclaimer, I am not an expert, I've just done this before):

\- Any advice you read here, including mine, should be immediately superceded by that of your tax professional or your lawyer. If you do not have a tax professional, I strongly advise at least getting a consult even if you elect to do your taxes yourself (and if you're a single-member LLC, see further down, this is not unreasonable). It is not merely a "strongly advise" to have a lawyer on tap. Get a lawyer and make sure they're the kind of lawyer who is comfortable telling you when you are a dumbass. That kind of lawyer is invaluable.

\- Corporations and LLCs are not the same thing. You can elect, as an LLC, to be taxed as a corporate entity, but that's a question between you, your deity of choice, and your tax professional (who I encourage you to think of, in this venue, as your deity of choice).

\- IANAL, IANYL, and TINLA, but you will notice that many don't-dig-for-gold- sell-shovels outfits like Clerky will tell you you want to be a C-Corp because, as their website says, it's the best for "high growth startups". I assume you are not a "high growth startup". I would look at LLCs long before I looked at a C-Corp and an S-Corp long before a C-Corp. Minimize your hassles as best you can because otherwise it'll bite you in the ass later; IMO and IME, this means "default to an LLC".

\- Formation is a moderate pain in the ass. I used Harvard Business Services for registration and continue to use them for registered agent services. No relationship, they just work fine and I don't have to think about it much. [https://www.delawareinc.com](https://www.delawareinc.com)

\- Single-member LLCs are the easiest way to manage your stuff, if not the most tax-advantaged way. (I do this because I optimize for simplicity.) Effectively you just file a Schedule C with your personal income taxes.

\- Once you've formed, get an EIN immediately. You can do it online, it takes like ten seconds. It will help with the next point.

\- Regardless of how you do it, it is incumbent upon you to do some real careful management of funds. The second you get that LLC, go to your bank and open a business checking account. Route _everything_ business-related through it. Eventually you will, if you're successful, want to take money out and that's fine--but having this structure to start will make it a lot easier to, if in the worst case, demonstrate enough separation to retain your limited liability if you get sued into the ground.

\- Relatedly, I like QuickBooks Self-Employed for keeping track of revenue and expenses. It's free if you use TurboTax.

\- If you're successful, get ready to file taxes quarterly. QuickBooks Self- Employed has helped me deal with that stuff, too, and if you make enough to have to file quarterly then it'll help you with reminders, etc. about that.

<comment><USER29> I'm not sure what the benefit of an S-Corp is over an LLC these days, because LLCs are simpler and can elect to file taxes as an S-Corp. It might be more straightforward to issue equity to employees as an S? But our legal (Grellas Shah) was emphatic that anything we wanted to do w/r/t/ employee equity compensation was going to be doable in an LLC if we wanted it that way.

<comment><USER46> Neither am I. My understanding is that it's more of a pain to deal with equity distribution for an LLC, but it is doable (the other LLC I own a bit of has done it a couple times to add new members).

S before C is more the amount of nonsense involved in a C-Corp unless you're getting investor money.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> Are you in the US?

<comment><USER48> Just wondering, does it make a big difference?

<comment><USER6> Ask a simple question, get a simple answer: yes.

Simplest possible illustration: Japan's equivalent of an LLC costs +/\- $10k in running costs for most HNers and doesn't do pass-through taxation, which might counsel sole proprietorship for longer here than it would in the US.

<comment><USER48> He was asking about an LLC from USA... not an LLC from Japan...

And I was asking about the cost difference for an LLC created in the USA by an outsider VS an American citizen...

I guess it was not so simple after all... (you just misunderstood the simple question).

How about candies? Do they poison people?

<comment><USER49> He used an example of Japan as an illustration of why it is important to know the location of the person asking the question.

You seem to be new here (73 days). Note that 'patio11 has been here for 11 _years_ and is one of HNs top posters. Not that longevity makes someone right, but 'patio11's posts have been high quality for many years, and one should assume that he is probably not pulling a reply out of his ass when he does reply.

While not every poster on HN posts high quality replies, most people here reply with a clear purpose. This is not Reddit -- I encourage you to assume that most replies are actually substantive. If you are not sure, check the poster's history -- this will help you get a feel for the potential quality of their posts.

Welcome to HN, and good luck with your endeavors.

<comment><USER48> I didn't know that all countries used the LLC term (or more then one)... specially not Japan which I expected them to use Japanese characters... I guess that they have been successfully Americanized. Sorry for the confusion.

BTW I know that this is not reddit but there is about as much censoring, if not more (there is just more users on reddit).

Also, I see that your account was created in 2013... did you create any throwaway account since then? (this account, for me, is a throwaway account)

Conflict: do you work for the economist.com ? most of your submissions appear to point there

but thanks for the insight as to why I get all the downvotes...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> I have started a Delaware LLC several years ago and abandoned the use of it, never got a chance to file reports or close it properly. It now shows thousands I owe in annual fees. Is anyone here in the same position?

<comment><USER6> The state of Delaware will continue assessing _your LLC_ franchise taxes until it puts your LLC in a "void" status after 3 years of non-filing of the annual report / payment of the tax.

[https://delcode.delaware.gov/title6/c018/sc11/](https://delcode.delaware.gov/title6/c018/sc11/)

If you need to make a decision based on this information I'd recommend calling up any practicing business attorney; it's a question they will likely be able to answer even in the free consultation.</comment></comment>


Show HN: Timbr saves explicit Tumblr blogs before they are gone forever - <AUTHOR> https://www.timbr.xxx/ <comment><USER2> Cool! I really hope this project is going to live long and prosper.

</comment><comment><USER3> a NSFW warning would be good at the post title</comment>


Software Patent Abolition Petition - <AUTHOR> http://wh.gov/bbn

<comment><USER2> That's not a very well done petition. Here are some of the problems.

(1) The America Invents act was not toothless. It contains provisions that put major hurt on patent trolls.

(2) It fails to actually state any realistic action items.

(3) It shows a misunderstanding of the role of the President in the patent system. What they are trying to accomplish requires Congressional action, not Presidential action.

<comment><USER3> You're right and they should use that to improve the petition, but I still think it's important to show that lots of politically active folks care about this.

Sure, Obama can't just end software patents on his own. But at least it puts the opposition on the map, politically. Still, that's all the more reason to want to make a good case.

<comment><USER4> Here is a petition that calls the WH out on the petitions just being PR stunts; somewhat tongue in cheek, but mostly serious.

[https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/actually- ta...](https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/actually-take-these- petitions-seriously-instead-just-using-them-excuse-pretend-you-are- listening/grQ9mNkN)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Petitions are not a good medium for this conversation. The response to the previous petition [https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/direct- pate...](https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/direct-patent- office-cease-issuing-software-patents/vvNslSTq) pointed to the place where the actual discussion is happening, <http://www.uspto.gov/aia_implementation/faq.jsp> and <http://www.uspto.gov/aia_implementation/comments.jsp>

<comment><USER6> Agreed. A petition was worthwhile to elevate the attention given to the matter. It could be the response was a brush-off, but it might also be an invitation to the party.

It's pretty hard to overestimate the impact that executive branch policy has on the PTO. If there truly were a "quality-first" directive, with mandates to reject hard-to-understand and overbroad applications on teachability and novelty doctrines, that would have a huge impact on the patent landscape. But there's a ton of work to do in crafting a suggested directive that would accomplish that, and petitions aren't really the proper vehicle for such suggestions.

It might be more productive to interpret the press release as an invitation to work on that document, and the pointer to the AIA page as a forwarding address to take the initiative to the next level.

So: what ought be the content of "Executive Order N to the Patent and Trademark Office?"

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> We don't have "software patents," since software (as code) isn't patentable subject matter. Instead, we have "business method patents," which cover the systems and methods used by the software in conjunction with an operating environment that are putatively novel, non-obvious, unique, and enabled.

I'd imagine most people fall into two camps: (1) business methods shouldn't be patentable subject matter solely because they satisfy the machine-or- transformation test (as articulated in a trilogy of cases from the 1970s and most recent in Bilski); and (2) even if they should be, many of the business methods today fail on non-obviousness grounds.

Proscribing the issuance of 'software patents' _isn't_ the problem. The problem is that in this digital age, we're relying on the machine-or- transformation test for business practices that exist in the virtual world. Because of the prevalence and impact of the internet in the global marketplace, there's now a fundamental difference between a ROM chip in a device containing instructions interpreted by a microprocessor and a software program compiled into machine readable code stored in RAM and processed by your computer's CPU.

</comment><comment><USER8> How about we start spending more than 5 minutes writing these petitions? Several points are missing and what's there doesn't even convey the key points clearly.

<comment><USER9> Dude, this is the internet. We don't think things through here, and I think the President should be weeping for gratitude that the petitioner deigned to use more than 140 characters to unburden himself. _Weeping._

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> The credibility of any given proposal is inversely proportional to the number of pejoratives used to articulate it.

</comment><comment><USER10> This bigger petition received an official response today:

[https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/direct- pate...](https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/direct-patent- office-cease-issuing-software-patents/vvNslSTq)

<comment><USER11> The OP petition is an answer to this official response.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> I frankly do not understand such black and white take on software patents. I don't think that _all_ of them are evil. If one invests his time and money in developing a software algorithm - something non-trivial, say, an IFS compressor for binary data - why should such invention not be entitled to the same level of exclusive use protection that a mechanical design receives?

<comment><USER13> The previous story on this provided the perfect response: "If millions of people carried machine shops around in their backpacks, mechanical engineering would be incompatible with the patent system too." (<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3182882>)

<comment><USER14> But millions of people have workbenches and toolboxes in their garages, and are quite capable of building physical objects and devices.

<comment><USER15> But physical manufacturing outside of freestanding factories has never been a significant part of an industrial economy. It more or less amounts to "arts and crafts".

This changed with computers. You could never start a car factory in a garage, but there was a golden age where you could start a high-tech electronics company like HP or Apple.

Today you can start a web-based or software company on a laptop in a coffee shop or library. This is a big deal, let's not kill it.

Software patents have to go away or we're going to be stuck in the industrial age, which would be bad because we've already sold off most of our factories.

<comment><USER16> > But physical manufacturing outside of freestanding factories has never been > a significant part of an industrial economy.

Actually, it has. Large scale production may have usually been in a factory, but often that factory was small production multiplied. Ford and the like were anomalies, even in the car biz.

> You could never start a car factory in a garage

I don't know about you, but literally thousands of folks did exactly that.

<comment><USER15> This is an interesting claim, do you have any links or citations?

<comment><USER16> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._cars>

See also <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_car_brands> . Australia is sort of interesting as is Britain.

<comment><USER15> [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_car_manufacturers_of_th...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_car_manufacturers_of_the_United_States)

OK, that's probably 700+ manufacturers after duplicates are counted for. Which is great!

But I can't figure out how to tell how many of them meet my original criteria of manufacturing outside of "freestanding factories". Spot-checking the links from Wikipedia turns up several references to converted bicycle and motorcycle factories. No references to "two guys in a garage" which kinda makes sense considering garages probably came after the early automobiles. :-)

No doubt some of them started in barns, but again, I don't think that was a huge part of the economy.

<comment><USER16> The all in one list doesn't include the countries that had lots of car companies, such as the US. US only list (which was the biggest) has over 1800, from 1896 to 1930.

The US wikipedia entry claims that very few car companies were started after 1930. I know a couple from the 60s that didn't make the list which were literally a couple of guys in a garage. No, they weren't casting their own engine blocks but neither does Lotus for some of their models.

> But I can't figure out how to tell how many of them meet my original > criteria of manufacturing outside of "freestanding factories".

Most made very few cars so it's unlikely that they had significant factories.

> I don't think that was a huge part of the economy.

There were two separate claims. The first was that small scale manufacturing was a significant part of manufacturing. I haven't addressed that.

The second was that lots of car companies had almost nothing in the way of "factory". That's the claim that I've supported.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Has any online petition every accomplished anything? Serious question.

<comment><USER18> I can think of one, non-governmental one:

<http://www.petitiononline.com/netflix0/petition.html>

<comment><USER13> Interesting. Can you point to any official response from Netflix referencing that petition, or did they just take the desired action without referencing the petition?

<comment><USER18> There was more outcry than just the petition. Lots of people emailed in, tweeted, whatever.

The official "OK, we're not killing profiles" message does not address the petition directly: [http://blog.netflix.com/2008/06/profiles-feature-not- going-a...](http://blog.netflix.com/2008/06/profiles-feature-not-going- away.html)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Have you guys seen the other White House responses to these petitions? They're a joke and a waste of time.

<comment><USER14> Except from the White House's point of view, because they get to harvest your email address.

<comment><USER20> Did you notice there's a Facebook Like button?

So Facebook knows when you go to a government site.

I imagine Facebook also knows which petitions you sign, or at least which ones you click on. I say imagine, because although I'm signed in, it still asks me to sign in before I can sign the petition, and signing in while I'm signed in leads to a 404.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: For which news websites do you have paid subscription? And why? - <AUTHOR> (I was thinking of subscribing to Wired) <comment><USER2> I personally don't subscribe to any news websites - I find that most of the best "news websites" (ones that go really in depth) are going to be blogs or niche non-paywalled sites.

I actually wrote my own application to send me real-time emails:

[https://projectpiglet.com/](https://projectpiglet.com/)

9/10 the websites linked to me are highly in depth, super interesting, curated towards what I'm interested in and I don't have to pay. IMO way better. Of course, I charge... so it might cost money, but you can find many of the same articles on Hacker News, Reddit, or just use Feedly (RSS) and subscribe to niche blogs.

(the site also predicts crytpo/stock movements, but unrelated)</comment>