Ask HN: Recommendation for Portable Stand-up height desk? - <AUTHOR>

Recommendation for Portable Stand-up height desk?
I enjoy working while standing up but I can't find a portable stand up desk. I want one I could fold up quickly and put in my car and is height adjustable.
The reason is there are not many places that have stand up desks and I change offices/working places frequently. <comment><USER2> [http://iamnotaprogrammer.com/Ikea-Standing-desk- for-22-dolla...](http://iamnotaprogrammer.com/Ikea-Standing-desk- for-22-dollars.html)

<comment><AUTHOR> Useful link. I didn't see any that folded up. I guess its rather difficult to make something that will fold up and not tip over. The goal would be to keep it in my car (think fold-up chair).

<comment><USER2> I see. You are right. It doesn't fold. But probably it wouldn't take too long to disassemble an IKEA furniture. :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Oh man I have had many horrible experience with missing IKEA parts bags (you know the plastic bag with the bolts). Make sure the bag is always taped on before leaving the store :)</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Would You Rather Be Middle Class in 2011 or Rich in 1973? - <AUTHOR> http://www.themoneyillusion.com/?p=8736

<comment><USER2> If I can have dinners at expensive restaurants, yachts, manors, apartments throughout the world, unlimited access to high class prostitutes, the respect, deference, fear, and love of the masses who stand in awe of my wealth...

rich in pretty much ANY time.

No matter what year it is it's always better to be on top. That's where most of the human pleasure comes from.

Xboxes and iPhones are really no substitute for being on top of society.

<comment><USER3> Sorry, but you sound like a shallow prick and possibly a sociopath.

If I can see my (future) children grow up happy and healthy, keep learning my whole life, earn my living solving interesting problems, etc., that's not just quantitatively worth more than a yacht; it's qualitatively a better life.

To answer the actual question, of 1973 vs. today, I'd take today. The Internet is, frankly, awesome. Not having the entire world living in fear of nuclear winter is also kind of nice. I don't think cryo firms like Alcor existed in 1973. Those are just a few things off the top of my head; I'm sure I could come up with a much longer list given time.

<comment><USER4> Well I would have thought rich in 1973 would have been a no brainer. Not because of affording expensive things yada yada (ok thats a huge bonus too but not for me). But because having the (relative) wealth would mean having the luxury of choosing my job without having to worry about how the bills were being paid. Having the dough to invest in my passions (assuming one had them). Having the dough to invest in technology at the early stages! I mean yeah the internet is great now. But you could just as well ask, would you rather be rich now or middle class in 40 years time?

<comment><USER3> Definitely middle class in 40 years. I suspect 2051 will be as far ahead of us now as 2011 would be to someone in the 1940's or so.

<comment><USER4> I suppose it could be worse. We could be "poor" in 40 years time! Again I mean poor in the vaguest sense. Which makes you wonder. What would the _bums_ be like in 40 years?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Relative wealth is what gets you the most mating opportunities and gives your genes a competitive advantage, to put it in a pseudo-academic language. Geoffrey Miller's The Mating Mind is way more interesting and deeper than this article if you are interested in the subject. Spent is even more about relative wealth as a fitness signal, but a bit fluffier.

</comment><comment><USER6> Rich in 1900 is my choice. I'll bet the food then _rocked_ \- I'll just take one year's income at face value and the house I'm living in now, without 111 years of intervening decay. The rich industrialist who lived here in 1900 will have to find new digs.

But no contest. I'd turn back that clock right now.

<comment><USER7> What kind of food do you think you'd get in 1900 that you couldn't get today?

<comment><USER8> It would be like going to Mexico and drinking the local water. You'd have no immunity to whatever bugs were commonly in food at that (pre-refrigeration) time.

<comment><USER9> Nobody drinks the local water in Mexico, including Mexicans. It's the food that carries novel fauna.

And it isn't the food that would get you. It's the smallpox.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> "more authentic pleasures like books, films, music, and jet travel to exotic spots (without T&A frisking at airports)"

Yeah, but... 2011 is a win on every front there except the last. (And that may be debatable; you better like your exotic spots _very_ exotic.) If you do not confine yourself to pre-1970s books, firms, and music _right now_ , it's because you like the stuff that came later better, no matter how nostalgic you think you are. You may think there's more garbage in 2011 but there's a lot more good stuff, too, and a lot more well-populated niches.

I mean, sure, wealthy in 1973 over middle class today in the broad sense, but not for that reason. And I _will_ take middle-class 2011 over rich 1900. I'm not sure where the exact cross-over is, but it's certainly within that bound.

</comment><comment><USER11> Maybe it's just the fact that I'm a hacker and a child of the digital age, but I'd take the ability to have a 1ghz computer in my pocket connected to the entire world for a couple of hundred bucks, against paying thousands of dollars for a machine that probably can't even do truetype rendering.

<comment><USER12> It depends on whether this is a time-travel question, or a 'when would you rather be born' question. You wouldn't miss things that you don't know exist.

<comment><USER13> _You wouldn't miss things that you don't know exist._

I "miss" not having a heads-up display in my glasses or contacts or optic nerve, and not being able to prevent my body and mind from failing due to aging. I'd choose middle class in 2049 over rich in 2011 for the same reasons that I'd choose 2011 over 1973.

<comment><USER12> Yes but you're talking about life-altering technology...That's the author's whole point, most of that stuff already happened by 1973. That's why he'd take 1973 instead of 1900 or whenever. We mostly live the same way now as we did in 1973, just with more gadgets. If you said "I miss not having holographic phones and VR porn" that would be a better example.

<comment><USER14> All I can say is, your life must be a hell of a lot different than mine.

My job (writing programs used by people around the world, all from my home office in small city Michigan) could not have existed in 1973. Indeed, my house probably has computing power equivalent to that of a good-sized university of the time. A sizable percentage of the food I eat was not available anywhere outside of a Chinatown then. My favorite genre of games, role-playing games, had not yet been invented. Nor had the high blood pressure pills I take. The surgery I had at new year's would have meant days rather than hours in the hospital.

And my son could never have been born. Life-altering? Hell yes.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Rich in '73 is such an obvious choice...

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm not sure if my being born in the late 1980s would make me more or less likely to choose 1973 over 2011. On the one hand it would take some getting used to a world without computers and the like, having never experienced that before. On the other, it would be more like travelling to a new place than going back in time, which at least sounds more exciting.

My question is - how far back would you go?

<comment><USER15> > My question is - how far back would you go?

If seriously confronted with this proposition, I would probably not take the risk. My father died of cancer, as did one of my aunts (from my mother's family), so, I would be weary of being too far from more modern treatments and/or diagnostics. It would be tempting, of course, to be able to witness some key events in our industry first hand (maybe even nudge them in a better direction). I would, certainly, be at the homebrew computer club meeting when Woz presented his Apple I. About a year later I would talk Woz into (or help him with - I still remember 6502 well enough) integrating floating point into Apple's BASIC. Then, I would try to persuade the IBM execs not to ditch CP/M-86 for PC-DOS. And then I would call it a day and head back to a much nicer 2011.

I could also lobby for Thorium reactors in the 50's...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Would you rather be middle class in 2040 or rich in 2011?

</comment><comment><USER17> Rich in '73 -- I'd invent Smalltalk before Alan Kay did.

<comment><USER18> Too late. :) He already had Smalltalk-72 under his belt by then.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Seems like a false comparison:

1973->2011 = 38years

1900->1973 = 73years

Although it does make me aware of an interesting question. Obviously I'd rather be rich last year over middle class this year. How about five years ago? Ten? A hundred?

As fun as questions like this are, we don't get to make that choice. Might as well just focus on getting rich now :-/

</comment><comment><USER20> You've not taken into account the social changes:

You'd hate the way people talk and act in 1973.

</comment><comment><USER21> "But I suppose everyone thinks their youth was some sort of Golden Age."

</comment><comment><USER22> Do I die in 1974?

</comment><comment><USER23> I would have loved to have been rich, or even middle class, at the start of the home computer revolution.

</comment><comment><USER24> Rich in 1973, because people who were rich in 1973 are, by and large, even richer in 2011.

<comment><USER25> they're also a lot closer to dead.

<comment><USER24> So be will you, in 2031.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> I'd rather be in the lowest 10% 100 years from now.

</comment><comment><USER27> Here's an interesting document from the US Census Bureau:

<http://www2.census.gov/prod2/popscan/p60-097.pdf>

In 1973, 628,000 families made less than $1000.00 per year. That's $.48 per hour for a 40-hour week. 8.1 million (14.1%) families made less that $5000 that year.

In 2011, annual unemployment benefits for an individual can reach about $20,000. In 1973, that amount would rank in the upper 18% of all family incomes.

Making $50,000+ in 1973 would rank in the top 1%.

<comment><USER28> You're comparing apples to oranges. At a very minimum, you must adjust for inflation. Most people here, though, are more interested in how much you can get for a dollar today vs in the past.</comment></comment>


How Long Should I Make My API Key? - <AUTHOR> https://blog.learnphoenix.io/how-long-should-i-make-my-api-key-833ebf2dc26f <comment><USER2> I see some confusion both in the article and in the comments.

If we're talking about an API _key_ , then the issue isn't collision and there's no relationship with hashing or uuids except the recommended final length.

A key should be a random 128-bit string (or 192, or 256 if you need additional security).

If you need to generate a key from a passphrase, use a key expansion function, not an hash just because the length is the same.

I don't know if there's any proof of randomness for uuid, the risk (in absence of a proof) is that to provide uniqueness the bit distribution is uneven, which could leak some information to an attacker, thus reducing the real bit strength of the key.

<comment><USER3> Most programming languages do not use secure random number generators. As you suggested it is not always wise to use UUIDs for API keys if you are not sure about the nature of the PRNG.

Python for example uses os.urandom for random UUID generation (uuid4), as can be seen in the source: [https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/3.5/Lib/uuid.py#L603](https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/3.5/Lib/uuid.py#L603)

The standard library guarantees that os.urandom is "[...] suitable for cryptographic use." ([https://docs.python.org/3.5/library/os.html#os.urandom](https://docs.python.org/3.5/library/os.html#os.urandom))

I'm not sure about other languages, so it might always be a good idea to look it up in the source code.

<comment><USER4> In Ruby you should use the SecureRandom module, but even that has had issues in the past.

[http://ruby-doc.org/stdlib-2.3.1/libdoc/securerandom/rdoc/in...](http://ruby- doc.org/stdlib-2.3.1/libdoc/securerandom/rdoc/index.html)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11624890](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11624890)

<comment><USER5> Seems like it still has issues? The bug is still open. Embarrassing but entertaining.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> This is not very well thought out.

1) If you are generating API keys, those are presumably used to make API calls, and every such call has to verify that the API key exists so it can deny or allow the request, which means that doing a lookup on any API key has to be an _extremely_ cheap operation.

So do the lookup after generating each and check for collisions. If you hit the jackpot and actually managed to randomly create a duplicate, generate another. Problem solved, and you don't have to worry about the collision frequency of your hash algorithm as a weird workaround for skipping a single extra lookup at API key creation.

2) Use GUIDs. It's what they're for. It's in the name. Globally Unique Identifier. This is the problem they solve.

<comment><USER7> GUIDs are Microsoft's implementation of UUIDs. UUIDs are long enough (128 bits) that you can generate them randomly and be confident in never getting a collision.

That's what UUID4 is -- all but six bits (that's 122 bits) are completely random. Checking for UUID4 collisions is the height of paranoia. It's basically checking whether your PRNG broke.

So your second recommendation is basically the same as the article's, and contrary to the first. Comparing UUIDs is not that expensive, but as expensive as it has to be for a key that will never collide.

<comment><USER3> Comparing UUIDs is cheap, but avoiding non-constant-time compares is a necessity. So the usual for loop with an early exit when two bytes don't match up is poison. A web application could become susceptible to timing attacks.

This is a good article that helped me understand and mitigate the vulnerability: [https://codahale.com/a-lesson-in-timing- attacks/](https://codahale.com/a-lesson-in-timing-attacks/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Why would you use a hash function here? What are we hashing? The username and password? If so, that means you can't revoke the API key without revoking the password. Since you're storing the username and password anyway, an API key should just be a long random string, generated using a CSPRNG, base64-encoded. Also, by generating the API key yourself, you're not depending on the security of the user's password (which you would if you're hashing it).

<comment><USER9> If you want to support communication over non-secure connections, you'd want to provide a "secret" key, and an ID for that key. Then you'd create an HMAC hash with the secret key, rather than actually sending the key.

Doing that securely and protecting against replay attacks is non-trivial though.

<comment><USER10> This seems like something we're not supposed to do... why not just use tls or ssh?

<comment> vertex-four TLS client authentication (which I think is what you're getting at) is a pain in the ass to implement clients for properly - OpenSSL is dreadful to use, and for many HTTP client libraries you'll need to use it (or a very thin wrapper) to set X.509 client certs, if you even can. On the other hand, there's decent libraries and plenty of information on how to generate and verify an HMAC, and avoid replay attacks.

<comment><USER10> No that's not what I'm getting at. I'm saying the design of secure protocols is best left for smart people. Every time you post on HN, you're using cookie auth, but you don't have to worry about replay attacks because everything runs inside TLS. Any environment that has HMAC libraries also has the libraries one would need to do the right thing.

<comment><USER4> HMAC is useful for expiring, limited-use tokens without having to store every single token, just the base key. It's used by CloudFront, for example.

<comment><USER10> Oh definitely, just pointing out that TLS client certs are used only rarely.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> "Hashing" and "random keys" are different. The author keeps mentioning "hashing" but it's "number of true random bits" that matters.

If the generation of those keys uses pseudo random data, time, etc, the risk of collision goes up.

Read 16 bytes from /dev/urandom and stuff them into base64encode and you have a pretty good random API key in readable ASCII.

<comment><USER12> I usually try to avoid base64 when encoding data/password/keys to users. Due to it's large/"odd" charset. I would recommend using binary to hex (base16) notation or base32.

<comment><USER11> Why is it bad to use case sensitive alpha plus digits plus two punctuation? The article already uses 62 chars (minus the two punctuation.)

If you encode fewer bits per character, you get a longer key but no more security.)

Raw binary: 16 bytes Base64: 22 bytes Base32: 26 bytes Base16: 32 bytes

The only reason to use base 32 is codes that a human may enter (promo, verification, serial) to remove case and O/0 ambiguities.

The only reason to use base 16 is laziness (some APIs generate this for you.)

API keys are presumably copied from the generation page and pasted into the local app config file.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> You need the API key to be long enough to be unguessable. Otherwise, I could get free stuff by just guessing someone else's key.

This is significantly longer than what you need to avoid a collision. The idea of having a three-character key is just crazy.

<comment><USER14> I thought he was just using that as an example to see what the risk of collision was - not actually suggesting that they be used.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> I am confused about the hash function involvement in this. I just use a random number generator to give me one of the 62 possible values. Why do I need to bash something?

<comment><USER9> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12327215](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12327215)</comment></comment>


Knowing webpage status code and resolving a given address using Java - <AUTHOR> http://mrbool.com/knowing-webpage-status-code-and-resolving-a-given-address-using-java/24892

<comment><USER2> I'm not sure bringing in JSoup into a basic tutorial is useful, the person reading your tutorial might not want to be doing HTML parsing at all!

Plus, it's incredibly easy with the stock Java API:

      HttpURLConnection connection = (HttpURLConnection)
                    new URL("http://google.com").openConnection();
      int statusCode = connection.getResponseCode();
      String statusMessage = connection.getResponseMessage();</comment>


API First, Mobile Second, Web Third - <AUTHOR> http://www.switzer.org/post/1660159298/a-vc-mobile-first-web-second-continued

<comment><USER2> Solve a problem someone has first. Rarely will that solution be an API. Advice is never universally right or universally wrong, but the advice in this post is _almost_ universally wrong.

<comment><USER3> API first is actually right in my opinion. Software is very multi-platform now : if you build the API first and then build the clients on top of that, you can make the clients completely decoupled from the server, allowing you to quickly switch platforms.

Technically, API first is a good thing. I don't know about from a business sense.

<comment><USER2> From a business sense you want to ship a minimum viable product as soon as possible. There may be teams that could do this most efficiently via the architecture you describe. I think most will work faster with one less tier.

<comment><USER4> Shipping an MVP with the most basic UI that gets JSON data from the server is fast and usable.

It was difficult to do this in the past, because browsers could not support the data that returned from the server without a lot of work. Today, JQuery that can present the data with minimum effort.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> So much hate on the web these days. Mobile is great, so are APIs, but the web still has some life left. Don't count it out just yet.

Match your platform to your problem and expand as necessary.

</comment><comment><USER6> <http://ookaboo.com/>

did web and API simultaneously -- mobile will happen when revenue or investment comes in and I can hire a team to do it.

The API has been a tough sell, however, because it's doing something entirely new. It's also got the issue that I don't know how to monetize it, whereas the web can monetize just fine. On the other hand, landing just one major API user can send me enough traffic that my competitors won't know what hit them...

<comment><USER7> After clicking around, I still have no idea what your app does.

<comment><USER6> image search that works.

Look for something on Google image search and typically the same image will show up in 25% of the first page of results and precision can be anywhere between 10-75%.

Image search is still so bad today that people don't even believe it can be made better. Defined in a certain narrow way, the Ookaboo API is > 99% accurate, however, there are common cases (categorizable) where its view of reality doesn't match other people's. For instance, Ookaboo might show you a picture of a person that is associated with a place instead of the place itself, or it might show you a picture of something that an artist made rather than show you a picture of the artist. We've got answers to that under development

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Don't think I've heard someone phrase it this way, but I agree (in some cases) - API first is a good way to go, if only to enforce proper abstractions on the server side. We launched our product as an API only (and it still is) and then segmented some API calls as paid calls, and others as free. Our entire business so far is just very simple API calls. It's a remarkably efficient operational model since the payloads tend to be small therefore each response- request cycle is lighting fast.

</comment><comment><USER9> I would amend this to something more like: find customers first, then build the thing they want in simplest way that satisfies their needs.

</comment><comment><USER10> Another reason not mentioned is that you are giving your API credibility and testing it by using the API in your own product. You get to consider the different things that customers might want to do with your API and consider the strategic effects of including features x over feature y.

</comment><comment><USER11> If you care about making money -- Mobile First, Web Second, API Third (though web and API kind of go together, so how about both at the same time? :)

</comment><comment><USER12> It sounds like some people have just heard about multi-tier!</comment>


Study finds no benefit, higher death rate in patients taking hydroxychloroquine - <AUTHOR> https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/21/health/hydroxychloroquine-veterans-study/index.html <comment><USER2> Nope, this is fake news by nature of oversimplifying so drastically that it misleads the reader. The study was of men over 65 with significant pre- existing conditions; it does not make a definitive conclusion as to the efficacy of the drug.</comment>


Nice Rust libraries you should try - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@jondot/12-killer-rust-libraries-you-should-know-c60bab07624f <comment><USER2> Some of these libraries - like rayon - are so important, that I feel like they should be part of the default install at this point.

It would signal that the release engineers take some responsability of the quality of these libraries (for example making sure that new code is reviewed by a trusted team, backdoors can't get in easily).</comment>


Have an idea for an IPhone Game, Looking for other developers - <AUTHOR>

If anyone has some experience in IPhone development and has some spare time, I have an idea for a game that takes advantage of the IPhone's unique user controls and should be fairly simple to build.
I am a developer, but have no experience in the apple world so I am looking to work to with someone on my first app.
For the game I can provide the idea, the art, and programming.
If you are interested, my email address is bradleyt.marsh at gmail.
I will of course provide a much more complete outline of the game to those that are interested. <comment><USER2> Well we do have engineering resources on iphone, and have been doing iphone app dev for quite some time. Here's what we've done and issues we're having: (<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=466840>).

Check out our site for more info: www.BokanTech.com/iphone/</comment>


Comparing different global problems in terms of potential for impact [video] - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xsR0XBwyo4 <comment><USER2> Maybe I lack ambition, but .. I don't need my career to change the world. I do a job which helps people to be where they have to be at the time they should be there. The world doesn't change because your elevator gets repaired faster (because someone could see "oh right, x has space in their tour and they are in the area, great") or if you can call your new internet provider and they can say "Your technician will arrive between 10 and 12" instead of "between 9 and 17 'o clock".

Neither changes the world. But it is a small step to help people do their jobs just a little bit better, so someone can be a little bit happier or less inconvenienced and that's enough for me.

<comment><USER3> When I hear "change the world", I always hear "ego." Nothing wrong with ego, of course, especially for visionaries like Jobs or Musk. But it's a tricky relationship and needs to be kept in check.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Find a way to do it. If you don't have kids, do it before you have kids -- it is a lot easier. Possibly find a way to get Product License+PS revenue to keep up current cash.

So I was on Wall Street for 11yrs (and 3yrs Wall St consulting before that.) One day, I decided i'd just do it. So I did. I found a good dataset for a big problem (Tuberculosis) with a use case (synchronous diagnosis) in a field where I had an advantage (CV+ML driven diagnosis) and convinced a customer to fund development in exchange for equity. Cool think about some of these problems is that you can give away your product (our approach was to charge wealthier countries and give it away free in poorer countries (though everyone would also "pay" via data contribution.)

The product worked. I teamed up with a Radiologist and MPH co-founder and we did it. The metrics were good. We were even on the acquisition block for a while. The story is a bit sad later on because we became mired in IP issues that tripped up the acquisition, but I don't regret the venture.

Not everyone can succeed in addressing a disease with 300MM victims. So just trying is a success in my book. And your solution need not be some cutting edge cure -- sometimes ancillary things like fast/cheap diagnoses is enough because the problem is often identifying early rather than actually curing. Making a diagnosis, even an initial diagnosis on a two-stage diagnosis, cheaper/faster is very much in the change-the-world territory. If you have a laptop, some GPUs, and the ability to sell your vision, you have all you need.

Side note: I wasn't rash in leaving Wall St. (a la Fountainhead) -- I waited to get my bonus before resigning and I resigned in grace by lining up a replacement for myself and ensuring there was a transition and my bosses were happy. One of my bosses even offered to invest in my startup. I also lined up a dataset before leaving.</comment>


Ubuntu surprise - <AUTHOR> http://manilastandardtoday.com/2013/01/01/ubuntu-surprise/

<comment><USER2> Honestly I don't understand the constant whining and whinging about ubuntu/canonical commercialization.

Fucking shock horror they want to be profitable, while releasing quality open source software.

Big Fucking Deal. Microsoft? Apple? Anyone? A profitable open source Linux OS vendor is a real benefit to open source software. It can provide much needed investment in open technologies and drive hardware and software vendors to releasing linux friendly products.

I truly don't understand all the ubuntu hate I keep seeing lately...

<comment><USER3> I do. It's hard enough to bring people out of closed OSes while Ubuntu is free. I still think Canonical should do like many successful startups these days: make a large userbase and only then start to deploy the business model.

We're not going to bring many people to OSS if we make it as expensive as the system they're locked in. One more obstacle.

<comment><USER4> "I still think Canonical should do like many successful startups these days: make a large userbase and only then start to deploy the business model."

But isn't that exactly what they are doing? Ubuntu has been around for 8 years now, would many startups last for 8 years without being profitable? And when should they start deploying their business model? When we are happy with it?

I think that many of us are being two-faced about Ubuntu. We want Linux to succeed, but not Ubuntu. We want to prove that you can make money from open source projects, but object to Ubuntu doing so.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Rumors? Secret projects?

Ubuntu should stop aping Apple and behave like an open source project again.

<comment><USER6> This is Canonical we're talking about, not Ubuntu. I've found myself forgetting that there are hundreds of volunteers behind Ubuntu, it's not just Canonical and their "product" decisions.

<comment><USER7> Canonical is the face of Ubuntu, both to consumers and enterprise customers. Until Ubuntu is freed from Canonical's sticky fingers then Ubuntu will continue to be tainted.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Their site has been updated with a countdown. <http://www.ubuntu.com/> I'm saying it's a tablet.

<comment><USER9> I'd agree, especially with this "you can touch it" text being included.

<comment><USER10> I'm hoping for multitouch gestures via the existing synaptics driver. Converting millions of existing laptop touchpads into multitouch pads would make a far more exciting announcement than launching a new tablet or phone or whatever.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> This reminds of what Opera did a few years ago. Announcing "We have some secret project that will change the web forever!" then released a new browser with an HTTP server embedded into it that was about as popular as <make up your own thing here>.

I guess the most likely thing here is the Ubuntu TV?

<comment><USER12> The fact that the message on <http://ubuntu.com> says:

        > So close, you can [ ... ] almost touch it.

... suggests that it has something to do with touch screens. Probably a mobile or tablet interface.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Maybe they're finally announcing Ubuntu for mobiles, which they demoed a while ago and looked pretty nice.

<comment><USER14> That was more about integrating Ubuntu with Android, though. I think they want their own OS for mobile.

<comment><USER13> Maybe, but I'd be much more excited about using my docked phone as a computer than yet another mobile OS that won't be as good as Android.

<comment><USER15> I don't think Android is a good mobile OS. I think the hardest part for a new mobile OS is to take on the Android ecosystem.

<comment><USER13> What's wrong with Android, in your opinion?

<comment><USER16> You just fed a troll with troll candy!

<comment><USER13> Blast!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> What is needed badly is someone to deliver compelling open hardware with kick ass design under CC for phones and tablets. Then the (r)evolution will happen on its own. What is the point of pouring immense intellectual resources into software when the hardware for it is nonexistent?

If someone creates a smartphone on which you can install hassle free whatever you can - will have my money in a second.

<comment><USER18> With it requiring the licensing of tens of thousands of patents to make a phone, that is, unfortunately, not likely to happen.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> "So close you can almost touch it." Probably Ubuntu for Tablet (officially)?</comment>


New XPS 13 Developer Edition from Dell - <AUTHOR> http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd.aspx <comment><USER3> [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HGxYMJdm1c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HGxYMJdm1c)

It affects the E7x40, E6x40, E5x40, E5x50, M4800, M6800, E7450 & XPS 13 2015 under Linux/VMs.

So basically Dell took a few months to fix the keyboard de bouncing under Windows and when they finally released a BIOS update they made the situation a lot worse for linux users (keys would appear to get stuck). After waiting a few more months, they finally released another BIOS update to "fix" the anomaly under Linux (they fixed the "stuck" key problem but many users are still reporting a de bouncing issue, see the latest pages of this thread if you are interested [http://en.community.dell.com/support- forums/laptop/f/3518/t/...](http://en.community.dell.com/support- forums/laptop/f/3518/t/19593360) )

There's also a touchpad & trackpoint issue that is still not fixed after more than a year and It looks like a BIOS/EC/firmware issue: [https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1258837](https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1258837)

Dell also broke USB3 support in the latest BIOS update for the E6540 and on the E6440 [http://en.community.dell.com/support- forums/laptop/f/3518/t/...](http://en.community.dell.com/support- forums/laptop/f/3518/t/19610392)

They also released a botched BIOS update (when UEFI netwokrk stack is enabled) fairly recently that necessitated the removal of the CMOS battery in order to boot... [https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/2m6u4s/dell_latit...](https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/2m6u4s/dell_latitude_e7440_a11_bios_update_bricks_machine/)

Also their fan control & thermal management is a sad joke. [http://en.community.dell.com/support- forums/laptop/f/3518/t/...](http://en.community.dell.com/support- forums/laptop/f/3518/t/19593697)

Their BIOS testing process is broken if not in -existing.

So, if you want to buy a Dell machine, just make sure that you know what you're getting into... Once the initial BIOS is declared gold it can take several months to see an issue resolved.

<comment><USER4> Thanks!

Do you know how this would perform with Linux? ASUS Zenbook UX305FA-ASM1 13.3-Inch Ultra-Slim Aluminum Laptop, 8 GB RAM and 256 GB SSD

<comment><USER5> It sounds like it runs fine once you get past the tricky install:

[http://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/2zbtm2/asus_zenbo...](http://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/2zbtm2/asus_zenbook_ux305_for_windowsarch_dual_boot/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Lack of a 16GB RAM option on a "developer edition" machine is very disappointing. Looks like a Chromebook LS + Crouton is the best Linux development environment one could aspire for right now.

<comment><USER7> This is actually the only thing holding me back from getting a new machine. I _need_ one, badly. But I also need at least 16GB RAM. I have 8 in my current (very old) machine and it is by far the biggest restriction I have. Getting a new machine with the same amount of RAM is pointless and I don't want to get another machine this big but my options are limited. I can't find many ultrabook's with 16GB though :(

<comment><USER8> The X250 supports 16 GiB RAM sticks, and the T450(s) (20/32 GiB) aren't too big either. Keyboard could be better, but the competition is worse IMO.

<comment><USER9> Do you have a link or further info on that as I've everything I've found says the X250 is limited to 8GB (which is why I'm still stuck with my 2yr old X230)?

<comment><USER8> [https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/2xy9pc/x250_repor...](https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/2xy9pc/x250_reported_to_be_working_with_16_gb_sodimm/)

8 GiB is the official limit, 16 needs after-market modules; and you're still limited to single-channel speed.

So no, I don't think the X250 is an adequate replacement for the X230. The X230's 35W CPU is still faster than the X250's 17W one (except in [GP]GPU- heavy benchmarks) and the X230's dual-channel RAM eats the X250's single- channel setup for breakfast, even with the new modules.

Advantages of the X250 are the nicer display (FullHD IPS at 400 nits), and lower power consumption per pound (the X230 still has a higher total battery run time, but only with 9-cell+slice batteries, which double its thickness and weight…).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I actually tried to buy one of these. Unfortunately I live in Scandinavia, but I wanted an English keyboard (Scandinavian keyboards are a pain to write code on). Since it wasn't possible to specify this via the order form, I tried to ring them, only to find that the only support available for private consumers is via their website, which doesn't allow me to specify this!

<comment><USER11> They are selling them on the UK Dell website, maybe that might be easier to order from here?

<comment><USER12> And the UK keyboard isn't the same as the US one, right?

<comment><USER11> Yes, its a bit different in the number+shift keys but the leters are in the standard QWERTY arangement.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> The thing that put me off the original was the 8gb max RAM... surely a developer edition would allow for more?

<comment><USER14> I got a ThinkPad X250 a few weeks ago. Originally I was hesitant, as it is also limited to 8GiB of memory, but I realised that development need not actually use more than that (and indeed, I never do). I basically need to run just Emacs, a compiler and a browser, and although both GHC and browsers are memory hogs, 8GiB is plenty. Whenever I need to do really intense things, like benchmarking, simulations or large-scale testing, I always want to use a remote beefy machine anyway.

I know that some developers have a need to run a large number of local virtual machines, but I do not really understand why, to be honest. I use virtual machines too, but remotely, and mostly automatically for continuous integration.

I don't think programming is inherently particularly resource-consuming.

<comment><USER15>
      I know that some developers have a need to run a large
      number of local virtual machines, but I do not really
      understand why, to be honest.

If you're developing a website, and you want to test on several versions of Windows and IE. Or if you're developing something that needs to work on several versions of Linux and you want to make sure it works right on several different distros. Or if you're developing something that uses Java on Mac and you want to make sure it works if the user has Java 6 from Apple, or Java 8 from Oracle, or both.

Obviously, there are ways to struggle through if you don't have much RAM - <USER2> example you can run 1 VM at a time and be constantly stopping and starting them. But if testing is a PITA, and it means you do a day's work before you test properly and find there's a problem, you might have wasted that day's work :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16>
      Operating System
      Ubuntu Linux 14.04 SP1

Does Ubuntu have Service Packs now?

<comment><USER17> Ubuntu has Debian-style point releases: [https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes/14.04.1](https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes/14.04.1)

Unlike the normal release of a package into the repositories, the installation media are updated

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Developer edition, and still no option to get it with 16GB of ram. This is the only thing that I dislike about this laptop, other than that it's a very cool little machine.

<comment><USER19> Serious questions: what's the use case for 16GB RAM? I'm not doubting... just curious.

<comment><USER20> In a developer machine? Off the top of my head: virtual machines, in-memory databases, a bitmap editor with _huge_ bitmaps consisting of many layers, game programming, 3D rendering...

<comment><USER19> Thanks.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Its a bit funny, when they state that it turns on instantly, They then back it up with 12 second cold boot and 3-5 second from sleep

<comment><USER7> I find it strange they still use this as a selling point. My only computer is a Dell laptop from 2008 (Studio 1737) and it wakes from sleep (Windows 8.1) in ~1 second. Sure I don't have connected standby but to be honest I don't really care for it. I open the lid and in a second Windows is up and running again. This machine originally came with Vista and it has always worked this quickly as far as I can remember.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> This is perfect timing for a link to "developer edition" laptops. I've currently been scouring, trying to find something I can be happy developing on for the next 5+ years.

The big selling features for me [and most developers, I'd assume] are the screen and the keyboard. These 2 things are my feedback loop for developing, and need to be of a certain quality or I'll feel 'off'.

I find so many companies get close to creating my ideal development laptop, only to lack in critical ways.

While I don't detest them, I find a lot of island style keyboards don't provide a resistance for typing. The scissor switches under the beveled keys on the older Thinkpads left me with a good experience for long periods of typing. Feeling that resistance is so much nicer than pushing flat tabs down (most often on spongy keys).

I do understand a lot of people watch movies on their laptops, but unless a screen is 1080 or higher, I find a 16:9 ratio screen limiting. My 12 inch SXGA+ screen goes up to 1050px height. Almost all "modern" screens are 16:9 and only go up to 900px height for the ~12" width. So unless a company makes a 1080 12" laptop, I still feel I'm missing out on those extra 150 pixels.

Soldering RAM, SSDs, etc. to the mobo. Like was mentioned here, "planned obsolescence" is everywhere, but I don't want to be a part of it. My old x61 Thinkpad still performs beautifully, even after nearly 8 years of service. Why? Because 8GB of RAM is still a nice thing to have, even if DDR2 RAM is mind blowingly expensive. And the ability to change wifi cards, throw in a CrystalHD card to play videos on, or just switch to an SSD. These little upgrades help keep my old workhorse alive, and makes me wish Lenovo would come out with an upgraded version, rather than changing to just hit the wider market of people.

And this is what it comes down to, I feel. So many companies blindly target the lowest-threshold-needs to hit the widest target group; not really thinking (or maybe just not caring) that every other company is doing the same thing. Perhaps it's the notion that 5% of a $1bn market is bigger than 80% of a $50mm. But at that point, you reduce your company's reputation to being just another brand, rather than being a master in a particular field.

</comment><comment><USER23> The second model seems like a really good deal for a fairly powerful Linux laptop with a really nice screen.

Will probably wait for an Ars review but definitely looks promising. Way more affordable than the Precision model they released recently.

</comment><comment><USER24> French link for this product. [http://www.dell.com/fr/p/xps-13-linux/pd](http://www.dell.com/fr/p/xps-13-linux/pd) note that the ubuntu version is noticeably cheaper (-70€) than the windows version with identical configuration. This is appreciable.

</comment><comment><USER25> I have the previous edition of this laptop, and I'm very happy with it. I'm a Linux guy through and through, and I'm happy to put my money where my mouth is, rather than buying some Windows machine and hoping Linux runs well on it.

I'll probably pick one of these up later this year.

</comment><comment><USER26> I bought the new XPS 13. The fan runs all the time, even when the machine is idle. Other people have reported the same problem. I returned it.

</comment><comment><USER27> What makes this a 'developer edition'? Does that just mean it comes without windows, or are there other differences too?

<comment><USER28> Sans Windows.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> The m3800 they sell has 16gb of ram, fwiw.

[http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=cump38...](http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=cump3800w7p8&model_id=precision-m3800-workstation&c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&)

</comment><comment><USER30> I expected to change some hardware components via Customize & Buy, such as adding more RAM, however it only allows adding support or some accessories. Expected more from a "Developer Edition". Do you recommend any other laptops for Linux with full support and lasts more than 4-5 hours?

<comment><USER31> I got tired of waiting for the Dell (and got a bit antsy about the BIOS and other issues) and went with a Lenovo X250 instead. It's fully customizable but takes about 2 weeks to ship. I've actually been traveling since I ordered it, finally getting it cross-shipped this week.

There are some crazy discounts every so often (I got a 35% off on my X250 order a couple weeks ago; I spent $1500 w/ shipping+tax for the i7-5600U CPU, 512GB SSD, 12.5"FHD screen, w/ a 6-cell battery). It maxes out w/ an 8GB DIMM, but 16GB DIMMs are starting to show up and will be compatible (albeit currently quite expensive).

The X250 is slightly bulkier than the MBA11/XPS13, but one nice thing is that it comes w/ a built-in 3-cell battery and an additional hot-swappable 3 or 6-cell battery. Real world battery life is reported to be 6h+ with the 3+3 combo, and 10h+ with the 3+6. Lenovo claims 20h in Windows. I'm interested in running some tests but I'm confident it should last at least a work day.

Here are some notes I've gathered, both comparing various ultrabook options (I'm replacing my MBA11 after multiple generations of disappointments) as well as lots of X250 specific config notes: [https://randomfoo.hackpad.com/Lenovo-X250-Linux- CVpUMLjBDZh](https://randomfoo.hackpad.com/Lenovo-X250-Linux-CVpUMLjBDZh)

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> Seems Dell is a mess in ACPI and will need firmware updates: [http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/34542.html](http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/34542.html)

<comment><USER33> The state of the hardware in Linux is very relevant, I couldn't find any real specs like chipsets of network, sound and such for this new XPS model.

Linux has come a far way as all of us who remember compiling a device driver will attest to, but that does not mean we're free from having to check if our new computers have well supported firmwares and preferably functioning open drivers.

<comment><USER31> The most extensive discussion on Linux compatibility for the XPS13 is here: [https://major.io/2015/02/03/linux-support-dell- xps-13-9343-2...](https://major.io/2015/02/03/linux-support-dell- xps-13-9343-2015-model/)

It includes info on the hardware: ALC3263 audio, BCM4352 network. Issues (presumably all fixed/worked around now that Dell is officially selling a DE) included the above-mentioned ACPI issues, sound (HDA/I2S, mic, headphone output) keyboard debouncing, trackpad freezing (and having to run in PS2 mode), and un-suspend display corruption.

Note, Major Hayden, who wrote the original post ended up switching to a Lenovo X1 Carbon: [https://major.io/2015/03/30/review-lenovo-x1-carbon-3rd- gene...](https://major.io/2015/03/30/review-lenovo-x1-carbon-3rd-generation- and-linux/)

<comment><USER34> The X1 Carbon X1 (2nd gen) starts at roughly €2,200 in my region versus Dell's roughly €1,300 for the XPS 13 (3rd gen). That's a _big_ difference, it had want to be worth it but wait...

The Carbon has the good ol' Windows tax, the XPS comes with Ubuntu pre- installed.

The Carbon has an i5, the XP3 an i7.

Carbo has a res of 2560x1440 (QHD), the XPS has a res of 3200 x 1800 (QHD+).

The Carbon has a 180GB hard drive, the XPS has a 512GB.

Thanks, but no thanks. I have the previous version of the XPS 13 and it's a sweet machine. Granted, it may take Dell a while to get the BIOS tweaks just right but it's not like the machine is unusable otherwise - it just goes from nearly perfect to perfect.

\---

[0] [http://shop.lenovo.com/ie/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-ca...](http://shop.lenovo.com/ie/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-carbon-2/) [1] [http://www.dell.com/ie/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd](http://www.dell.com/ie/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> I had the previous version of the DELL XPS 13 Developer Edition and I always had problems with USB 3 devices.

And Dell assistance is now a joke... four maintenance works (one of them broke the display) changing random pieces and at the end the problem was still there. I wouldn't suggest to anybody to buy one of this.

</comment><comment><USER36> What I like about this: I can buy it with Bitcoin! That is not something I feel should be overlooked ..

</comment><comment><USER37> 8GB RAM is so 2014... also keyboard layout is not so dev friendly.

<comment><USER8> You mean 2010. Sandy Bridge laptops from 2011 already had 16 GiB RAM.

<comment><USER37> I think since 2014 use of 8GB in mainstream laptops was a standard. It seems like they just slapped Ubuntu on a mediocre spec laptop and called it a day.

<comment><USER8> Mainstream, maybe. But not in developer laptops/mobile workstations.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> I hope they do the no bezel thing on the next xps 15. It's super sexy, but I need the extra ram and real estate in the 15.

</comment><comment><USER39> It would be nice to be able to choose the 256 GB HDD for the non-touch version. I'm not sure why this is not an option.

<comment><USER40> Its available on the non-dev product page if you configure it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> » Software Skype™, Internet Explorer, My Dell Support application, Dropbox « wait what?

</comment><comment><USER42> I would rather get a Thinkpad for that price, especially the T450S.

<comment><USER43> $1600 for an IPS 1080p screen? what a joke.

</comment></comment><comment><USER44> A bit weird as it says nothing about battery.

<comment><USER45> It does say "52 WHr, 4-Cell Battery (integrated)" in the details ("Also included in this system"), but it doesn't list the estimated run time.

<comment><USER44> Thanks. I didn't go into detail page. That's why</comment></comment></comment>


Vandalised home puts pressure on Airbnb - <AUTHOR> http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/9aac5f80-b924-11e0-bd87-00144feabdc0.html

<comment><USER2> The question now is will this be the Hindenburg moment of this type of services, or is it just a speed bump?

We'll see how all this bad press is going to spread across the rest of the mainstream media and tabloids. I know we are all disappointed with the way airbnb handled the situation, but we really shouldn't be happy if all the sensation seeking press starts using this to boost their sales, and in the process damages this market beyond repair.

<comment><USER3> I remember the early days of ebay and stories of fraud. I don't think this will be the end. They need to make adjustments, but I don't think this is the "end" of this type of service.

<comment><USER4> I tend to agree. While the largest unknown independent variable here is how the Airbnb handles this crisis, I feel that they will be able to steer the ship through this.

<comment><USER3> I find it interesting how people handle crisis. You can act on feeling, or you can act on logic. They (airbnb) need to be more logic based in their approach and state the facts: Our system is not perfect. We are making adjustments. We will compensate this person for their loss. Instead, they are providing tons of great coverage to the press.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Why would anyone give the keys to their home to a total stranger? (And leave them on their own for a whole week?)

<comment><USER6> What I don't understand is renting to a stranger... but leaving valuables in the house. At least put that stuff in storage while you're out.

<comment><USER7> Yes, this exactly. You're not letting your friends use your house. Trusting random strangers, getting burnt, and then saying that it's all the fault of the person who introduced you to them as a stranger makes no sense. Airbnb wasn't vouching for their renters any more than a hotel booking site does. You think hotels leave expensive unsecured items in all their rooms? Do you think hotels don't have a way of charging for damage? This person didn't think their actions through at all and now they're blaming everyone but who they should, themselves.

My eastern European friends have told me that Americans are strange with the example being that they need their coffee labeled hot whereas "normal" people know that coffee is hot. This is the same thing. Leaving very valuable things out when inviting strangers to stay in your house when you're not going to be present is just something "normal" people know not to do.

<comment><USER8> > Airbnb wasn't vouching for their renters any more than a hotel booking site > does

The victim in this case stated that, before using Airbnb, she would normally perform background checks on potential renters. Airbnb, though, marketed themselves as a safe and reliable way of vacation renting, and implied that they took on the responsibility of this sort of screening. In fact, they make it impossible for users to do it themselves. Whether or not they do in fact screen renters, it doesn't sound unreasonable for the victim to have believed that they do.

> Leaving very valuable things out when inviting strangers to stay in your > house

At one point in her blog, she does mention that she had taken everything of value and locked it in a closet that the guests did not have access to (and presumably did not know the contents). They literally broke the locked door down. Valuables aside, they also went on to damage or destroy nearly everything else in the house, valuable or not. Removing valuable items from the house entirely would still not have prevented the violation of her home.

I don't think it's at all fair to blame the victim here. It's not a simple matter of an American lacking common sense.

<comment><USER7> > they make it impossible for users to do it themselves

That seems like a fundamental problem with their business. I'm inclined to agree that unless they make a serious shift in the information they're providing to people providing rooms, their business isn't going to work much longer.

> locked it in a closet that the guests did not have access to

If it was the only locked closet in the house then it would have been rather obvious. You point is essentially valid though, hiding her stuff would not have prevented someone not interested in financial gain from destroying her house. However, not taking that basic step, irregardless of the intent of the strangers, seem to still lack "common sense".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> There's nothing new in the actual story. I thought it's placement on the front page (below the fold) of the print edition was significant. It's not exactly a tech publication.

<comment><USER9> > (below the fold)

web 1.0 term now in disuse. As soon as a story, any story, is disseminated by a world renown publication such as the Financial Times, it might as well be the main story for the amount of time the long tail decides to keep it alive.

It's a business problem; the tech part to AirBnB was just the application. Developers should get used to the fact that their apps grow up, move away and marry business people.

<comment><USER10> Point taken, but 'below the fold' is most assuredly not a web 1.0 term when we're talking about a printed publication.

<comment><USER9> In today's terms, a printed publication is entirely below the fold.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> It would cost a fraction of their recent raise to make this woman whole again, at least financially.

They should have brought her in, given her a heartfelt apology from the executive team, and paid her a large lump sum. In return she would sign a NDA.

<comment><USER12> > In return she would sign a NDA

It depends what's in the NDA. If AirBnB are acting honorably and correctly, there is no nead to silence me about what happened to me and how they responded.

About the furthest I would >personally< go is agreeing not to disclose the exact amount of compensation. That's a fairly normal term, and the usual reason is to prevent scammers from being enticed into fraudulent claims of damages, or for others to use my settlement as a baseline for negotiations.

Other than that, asking me not to talk about something that actually happened is wrong. If they do A and B and C in the negotiating room, well, they ought to stand behind my talking about A and B and C, at least in general terms.

Trying to "buy my silence" would raise my hackles, and I would immediately presume that they were an untrustworthy organization that prefers guile and miscommunication to honest dealing.

>JM2C, it's a matter of personal conscience to decide what to accept or refuse. But it's also a matter of public perception. If I read that they settled with her and she agreed as a term of the settlement not to talk about it... I would make certain inferences about AirBnB. Of course, this has not happened so we are speaking only of a hypothetical situation.<

<comment><USER13> > _Trying to "buy my silence" would raise my hackles_

Same here; if I were in such a predicament I don't think there's any amount that would justify signing a NDA.

I'm wondering if this is what happened? As the story stands, one side is clearly not telling the truth, or withholding a part of it.

What could have happened could have been, Airbnb offered compensation + NDA, victim said she wouldn't sign it. Back and forth a few times, and in the end she went ahead with her blog post. Seeing this, Airbnb stopped all communications.

If this is actually what happened, they should have offered compensation anyway, no strings attached.

It'll be very interesting to know the real details; I don't understand how they could let this blow out of proportion like this.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Other times when people get their houses ransacked while on vacation, we don't have a flap of stories about the post office leaving mail in the mailboxes. A criminal decided to use AirBNB to find an empty apartment and provide cover.

It is important for them to react well to this, but they just can't provide real security. And they shouldn't have to, they're matchmakers.

All this media attention is going to make them feel like they need to do everything, but past the basics of providing good customer service lies a few good measures and a lot of security theater. They're being hammered to do the impossible because they are novel.

</comment><comment><USER15> never imagined this type of thing would happen in startups - top level bureaucracy. Doesn't this happen in big corps?

Maybe I'm looking at this whole black cloud of bad PR in a simplistic way but why is it so hard to bring EJ over or fly over to her, assess the situation, put her in a hotel, replace her stuff, help her find a new place. Doing that will get AirBnB much much more popularity than their famous cereal box story that we've heard so much of.

</comment><comment><USER16> >These included doubling the size of its customer support team, setting up a 24-hour telephone hotline, and offering insurance products.

That is a pretty weak response. Peddling insurance...really?

Even worse I can't really think of a better response. i.e. The model might be inherently flawed & un-fixable.

</comment><comment><USER17> It won't be long until the tabloids pick this up and run with it, applying their own sensationalist inaccuracies. I think Airbnb have to act quickly to fix this before it turns into a Fox affiliate human interest story and damages their reputation irreconcilably.

<comment><USER18> Can't speak to American papers, but it certainly won't be big news in UK tabloids, if it's mentioned at all. The FT cares because it's business, tabloids won't care because it's not a particularly well-known business (over here).

<comment><USER19> _tabloids won't care because it's not a particularly well-known business (over here)._

1) I actually started using Airbnb because a non-technical friend used it and said it was great. It's more widespread than you think, even in Europe.

2) Tabloids will love the human interest angle, and be quite happy to blame "internet startups" in general for ruining this person's life. Accuracy is optional in a lynch mob.

<comment><USER18> I suspect you're wrong, but perhaps I am, who knows. The way I see it is we've all heard of Hilton or Marriot hotels, and if something went down in a hotel room in one of those chains, papers wouldn't cover it because of the company, their decision would be based purely on how interesting what happened was. In this case, someone having their appartment robbed, without tying it into business/tech it's not all that interesting as news.

So, while people may know the name of AirBNB (I still suspect that actually not a huge number over here know it, just seems more widespread because it only takes a few non-tech people to know about something well known in the tech scene for it to seem widespread to us), I don't know if people who care about it only for the rooms, and don't care about the actual company, will give much thought to this news.

<comment><USER20> Just give them a slow day and I'm sure they will be all over it. It's like those crimes that are somehow related to games or comics, "the murderer was reenacting his favorite scene!" or "the victim refused to give his character's login!"

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> I think more importantly, could this have been prevented? They should have done the proper research on the risks involved.

They should also have provided users with a quick (even webpage) on risks involved and precautions people can take and make. And provide the users more background info on the renter. It's not as simple as running a hotel.

To me this looks and feels like a story of simple thinking and bad iterating. I doubt this is the only case out there. There should have been a lot of minor issues as well. And we all know it starts small before it becomes a tornado and tears your house and community down.

</comment><comment><USER22> The last line of her most recent blog post pretty much sums up the entire thrust of her story and its problems for Airbnb:

"And for those who have so generously suggested a donation fund be set up to help me recover, I thank you from the bottom of my heart, and suggest that instead, you keep the money and use it to book yourself into a nice, safe hotel room the next time you travel. You'll be glad you did."

<comment><USER23> How does using a hotel when you travel, help prevent your home from being burglarized while you're away?

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> My first thought was "business opportunity to offer insurance to airbnb customers".

Apparently there are already websites up to do just that.

<comment><USER25> Good luck being able to cover all a person's personal heirlooms that cost thousands.

<comment><USER26> As long as the volume of insurance related payouts is small enough and the volume of customers purchasing insurance is large enough, then it's a viable business model. In fact, that's how insurance works (and how it stops working when there are major catastrophes that cause the number of claims to spike dramatically).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> I'm a little surprised it took this long to start showing up in print, as it were. I'll also be interested in seeing if they do a followup with her latest post.

<comment><USER28> This long? The initial blog post went viral yesterday only... So to be in todays print edition I guess they wrote it last night or during the night...

<comment><USER27> Yes, but the actual incident and blog post was weeks ago, and this is the kind of combination of thing that rags like to pick up on-- harshly-treated victim, forgotten by an up-and-coming company that doesn't know how to spin PR properly.

<comment><USER28> Yeah, but do you think that they follow all the blogs by non-celebrities... no

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> At this point in time, I wonder if it's in pg's best interest to cut loss, and sever the relationship with airbnb altogether. Sell yc's stake in airbnb, and avoid talking about them ever again.

Sure, airbnb has a $1b valuation for now. But does anybody really think they're worth $1b after this, and only on an estimated $10M _cumulative_ revenue? (not to mention the pending stock market collapse and IPO window closing, precipitated by US default next Tuesday)

They have a pretty toxic public image now amongst early adopters, and will only get worse. They have a business process which now appears to be broken, and it will cut into their already miniscule revenue to fix it. They do not have a moral/charismatic leader that can guide them thorough an important crisis like this. They are deemed illegal in many parts of US, and will likely be more so later once more mainstream media picks up on it.

On top of that, they are destroying yc's precarious image. And they're dragging this entire mess on all the other yc's startups (the other yc founders have to stand up to defend airbnb. Other applicants realizes that the best performing company in yc is one that does evil)

<comment><USER30> With the exception on the potential hit to AirBnB, I think you've overstated every single claim in your post. Of course, I have no evidence of market effects; only time will tell, but YC is not going to be judged and thrown out as unworthy because one company has a significant (perhaps deadly to the company) issue.

And why does YC have a "precarious image"? I've never heard anything of that nature. Every YC person whom I've spoken to (albeit not a huge percentage!) has loved the program.

<comment><USER31> Some aging statistical research shows that if you have a bad experience you'll share it with 26 other people; having a good experience nets only 13 people. Multiply that by the internet and predict the market effects.

As disastrous as this is to EJ and her life, I think it'll be the utter ruin of AirBnB.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> Its not a customer service issue..hold on wait..let me explain..

Its an identity problem..How do you have processes and procedures in place that uses identity as the qualifier of being able to trust a person to temp rent to ? Fro example, world wide what do we use as the identifier to get all this info? Is it a credit card number? Is it a credit card number and other pieces of info?

Look at the processes of PayPal..similar identity/trust problem or Amazon Stores..

I submit that Airbnb has not solved the identity/trust set of problems yet and that is their stumbling block not reactions to customer problems as the techmedia has blarred..

<comment><USER33> The identity/trust set of problems was solved long ago by hotels and most other businesses: when the customer arrives you meet him, check his id, get payment info and show him his room. You can take pictures of him if you wish (e.g., security cameras in the lobby). A check-out process should also occur.

The AirBnB contract should be between rentor and owner of rental property: AirBnB's participation should be only as an agent. That limits liability and makes clear what is expected of each party.

IMO AirBnB should not be responsible. This is looking more and more like a shakedown of AirBnB or preparation for a lawsuit.

<comment><USER34> Exactly. Every vacation rental I've ever had asked me for my ID and often, a refundable deposit to cover damages. When I used AirBnB in Paris, the owner asked to see my passport.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> There is no such thing as bad publicity

<comment><USER30> BS. Perhaps the vast majority of publicity can be made positive for you, but if you screw up in your handling, you can get eaten alive.

AirBnB had a chance to make this publicity tolerable. Instead, they worried about "precedent" and "cost" and, in a fit of immaturity, tried to sweep it under the rug. _Every one of those actions have magnified the severity of this crisis._

Now, instead of them being in the drivers seat of the story with some control of the fire, they are subject to whatever the winds want to do with it. In both cases, stuff gets burned, but it's usually not houses, businesses, and people in a controlled burn.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> Danger, Will Robinson.

</comment><comment><USER37> Has there been any verification anywhere that this actually happened, beyond just two blog posts?

<comment><USER38> I would take the response by brianchesky as an authoritative source indicating that it did actually happen.

<comment><USER39> It just seems a little too perfect to me. With the amount of money at stake in disrupting the hotel business it is not impossible that the event was staged. Her writing is just a little too perfect and why doesn't she respond to emails from the press?

[http://travel.usatoday.com/destinations/dispatches/post/2011...](http://travel.usatoday.com/destinations/dispatches/post/2011/07/airbnb- nightmare-apartment-trashed-safety-renters/178966/1)

It seems like the only person who has talked to her is the CEO of airbnb

<comment><USER40> With his business model at stake, don't you think the CEO is smart enough to do some basic vetting before giving a response that acknowledges the veracity of the alleged crime?

EJ may be anonymous to the rest of the world (though her blog has lengthy posts from as long as two years ago...pretty good trolling setup if she were a troll, even though you can backdate posts), but presumably, airbnb has all of her personal information, and as an tech-savvy startup, has conducted basic online research of her (her credit card was obviously valid; does she have a FB account. does googling her bring up any connection to the hotel industry, etc.?)

<comment><USER18> I'm not jumping on the conspiracy theory bandwagon and think that the idea is nonsense, but hypotheticall, _if_ I were trying to make Airbnb look bad (and had had spare cash to do it with), I wouldn't just pay someone to say it happened, I'd also per someone to rent the appartment, and actually do this stuff, so that any checks show the crime did indeed happen.

<comment><USER40> Sure...but the more people you bring into the conspiracy, the more likely it is to be found out. Of course airbnb will call the cops into investigating this. If this were a setup, EJ and her fellow perpetrators made it MUCH more complicated than it needed to be. The alleged homewrecking occurred over a lengthy time period and involved not only simple burglary, but destruction of walls and bizarre behavior (such as the picture moving). Moreover, they apparently left a lengthy e-paper trail. If EJ faked all of that, she gave the cops and airbnb a lot of avenues to poke holes in the story, such as checking timestamps, IP addresses, even the linguistics in these alleged email exchanges.

What would the hotel industry have to gain? The beatdown of a website that has yet to reach mainstream consciousness...Airbnb is a long ways from being the Netflix to the hotel industry's Blockbuster Video. What do they have to lose? Hmmm...millions, maybe a billion in liability and legal fees, nevermind prison sentences for the numerous people involved in such a scheme.

Also, look at the date of the original post: [http://ejroundtheworld.blogspot.com/2011/06/violated- travele...](http://ejroundtheworld.blogspot.com/2011/06/violated-travelers- lost-faith-difficult.html)

June 29. I only found out about this through HN a day ago, and that seems like when this all went viral.

Maybe I'm underestimating the hotel industry's savviness and patience here...but why would it wait for a viral campaign to serendipitously happen, as opposed to going through their considerable resources of outreach and media contacts? EJ could've easily made a sincere-in-appearance call out to a Bay Area publication...hell, even Patch...instead, she apparently left only a blogpost.

And hell, her blogpost is terrible SEO: "Violated: A traveler's lost faith, a difficult lesson learned" One thing I would expect of big-calcified-industry folks to have at least down is their SEO bulls __*.

If a major hotel company were clever and innovative enough to pull this off without being exposed (which would include not only faking the fake crime emails, but hiding the emails they used to internally discuss all of this...something that no business, such as the financial giants, have yet done successfully) it's far, far more likely they would've come up with a better Internet business model by now.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


The Day I Drove for Amazon Flex - <AUTHOR> https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/06/amazon-flex-workers/563444/?single_page=true <comment><USER3> The 'gig' economy reminds me very much of the state of factory workers in the early 1900s. For businesses, it was very clear that forcing workers to work in a very unfriendly way (doing a repetitive task as part of an assembly line) was a multiplier for scale and productivity. However, associated with that was the "price" unfair wages, long hours, stress, strain, and injury.

It took 30-60 years of unions and labor rights before the problem was 'solved' \- the non-monetary economics of that kind of production sucked (worker's comp + regulations for human rights) and those factories shipped overseas to where those things didn't exist.

The modern gig economy is really just scaling up distribution instead of mass production. On paper, it is cheap and scalable. But add in all the socio- economic components and you'll realize that it's not really that cheap, and not an economic engine that can survive long term past the initial stages, reason being that demand exists only because the price is subsidized.

Currently, shipping is extremely cheap, subsidized by Amazon, the government, and more recently, the individuals who due to lack of opportunities live with subsistence wages. If shipping was actual market price (where gig workers earned a fair wage), the cost would be much higher, which would shrink demand. (shipping was available as a function since forever, and wasn't ever a popular shopping option until today).

If we wanted free shipping as a standard of living, we would need to subsidize shipping on a governmental level, similar to how we subsidize food (especially meat). Americans don't realize it but meat is cheap in the US, much cheaper than the rest of the world. This is purely because of subsidies, which is a perk to allow the american standard of living: [https://www.quora.com/Why-are- meat-and-animal-by-products-so...](https://www.quora.com/Why-are-meat-and- animal-by-products-so-cheap-in-the-U-S-despite-of-the-fact-that-it-takes-a- lot-of-natural-resources-to-produce-them).

If you want to make the american standard of living free package delivery, subsidize the wages from the US government, and force the tech companies to pay real corporate tax.

<comment><USER4> Isn't subsidized pricing illegal?

See: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing)

> Predatory pricing , also known as undercutting, is a pricing strategy in > which a product or service is set at a very low price with the intention to > drive competitors out of the market or to create barriers to entry for > potential new competitors. Theoretically, if competitors or potential > competitors cannot sustain equal or lower prices without losing money, they > go out of business or choose not to enter the business. The so-called > predatory merchant then theoretically has fewer competitors or even is a de > facto monopoly.

> Predatory pricing is considered anti-competitive in many jurisdictions and > is illegal under competition laws.

<comment><USER5> Is Uber illegal?

<comment><USER6> Courts exist to answer this question.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> It's not so great on the other end, either. My house has a gate to get to the front door. The gate is very easy to operate and never locked. A driver (I have to assume Flex) instead _threw_ a 20lb box with an ice maker in it over the fence and into a rose bush that was clearly visible (the fence is just wrought iron). It crushed a lot of roses and thankfully didn't damage the ice maker. My wife was literally 20' away in her office when it happened and says the driver simply drove up, threw it over, and drove away.

<comment><USER8> I know a person that uses a paintball gun to keep people out of his apartment building's dumpster (identity theft from documents stolen out of trash is a _huge_ problem where he lives) and also to tag delivery trucks and (yikes) delivery drivers that do this kind of hit-and-run delivery. He'd had enough of things being broken in this way.

<comment><USER9> That seems a little excessive? I hope he sees judicial consequences for his behavior.

<comment><USER10> I'm not defending the GP's acquaintance but getting hit by a paintball is lower than the typical risks you accept when you dig around in a dumpster. Generally speaking dumpster diving isn't trespassing unless it's behind a gate or something. It really depends on the dumpster in question.

If it's a good construction or scrap metal dumpster with a lot of nice material in it then defending it with a paintball gun is very much a dick move though.

I don't see why he's getting down-voted. He just said he knew a guy who did a thing. He didn't even imply whether he approved of it or not.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> _> Because of the way Flex works, drivers rarely know when blocks of time will become available, and don't know when they'll be working or how much they'll be making on any given day."_

 _> "Kelly Cheeseman, an Amazon spokeswoman, told me that Flex is a great opportunity for people to be their own boss and set their own schedule."_

<comment><USER12> The Doublethink is real here isn't it?

I note a similar thing here in the UK - most of the folks working 'gig economy' or more accurately 'single person zero guaranteed hour contractor' jobs are doing this stuff full time and are pushed hard to make a workable living out of it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> The Kobayashi Maru delivery situations where there are few parking options or the customer simply isn't there seem terribly unfair.

<comment><USER14> I've never before seen the term kobayashi maru used in the wild. Now that I have, I think, it should be more widely used.

<comment><USER13> It feels like a very literary type term... I get my monocle out each time i use it.... and my Star Trek badge.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Why there were never these articles for pizza drivers and other deliveries before?

<comment><USER16> Because the companies they worked for didn't threaten to upend the retail market of an entire nation, I'm guessing.

<comment><USER11> That makes sense in some clearcut ways and a lot of generally concerning ways. I wonder if the sentiment from how it affects peoples' lives is at play or if it's just Amazon being so big. It seems similar to Wal-Mart rage, which was mostly the former.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Sounds like non-drivable, only walkable, cities are a real problem for deliveries.

<comment><USER18> I don't think this is a huge problem though, as it forces the use/development of things like delivery lockers, last-mile bike/foot delivery, pickup stations, and just generally pushing back on the idea that a car should be able to go everywhere until a human is absolutely forced to get out of the car and walk.

I think cities/bigger towns would eventually (in my idealistic world vision) have major highways/roads that go around them, and have primarily foot/bike/public transit traffic for everything internal.

<comment><USER19> Domino's recently opened up some shops in Vienna, Austria and they gave a lot of their delivery people e-bikes. UPS also seems to have people delivering last-mile with e-bikes. Seems to work out great and they aren't clogging up the streets with delivery cars parked everywhere, blocking entrances, etc. like most other delivery services.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> When google initially invested in Boston Robots I thought was to try and solve this problem.

<comment><USER21> I think you mean Boston Dynamics.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> I mean, the truth is these jobs will go away relatively soon because of drones and robotics.

</comment><comment><USER23> _The security guard at the front door of the office building chastised me for carrying the box, and told me that I should be using a dolly to transport it. (None of the 19 videos I had to watch to be a Flex driver recommended bringing a delivery cart or a dolly.)_

How could you not know this? Have you never seen another delivery driver? Do you really need a training video to tell you that when you need to carry a lot of heavy packages, you should use a dolly?

<comment><USER24> > Do you really need a training video to tell you that when you need to carry > a lot of heavy packages, you should use a dolly?

Yes, you need.

Case in point, in the last half a dozen orders I've made that involved a somewhat heavy and/or large package, not a single delivery service used a dolly or delivery cart, even on orders from a certain multibational furniture store.

You expect your employees to do their job safely? Then you explicitly cover the safety procedure during training, and you directly and intentionally state that it's in their best interests to do so. Otherwisr you can't possibly assume they will comply with an implicit rule.

<comment><USER25>
      in the last half a dozen orders I've made that involved a
      somewhat heavy and/or large package, not a single delivery
      service used a dolly or delivery cart

I work for a company called Ocado that does grocery delivery right to people's kitchens (unlike Amazon Flex, our drivers are employees, paid by the hour, and drive company-owned vans). I've been out with drivers several times. Drivers are issued with dollies and trained in their use.

Dollies are inherently a mixed blessing. You can pile more stuff on them - <USER2> if you've got to get up a kerb, you've still got to be able to lift that weight, and the dolly as well, and keep everything from sliding off at the same time.

And it's not just kerbs. They've got steps up to their front door? Can't use the dolly. Old flat/apartment without a lift? Can't use the dolly. Lift needs a key you don't have? Can't use the dolly. They've got a gravel path? Can't use the dolly. They've got a thick-bottomed UPVC door frame? Can't get the dolly through it. On a steep hill? Dolly will make things harder...

And it turns out, in a city like London, there are a great many buildings with one or more of these defects - and the worse the parking situation, the further away you park the van, the more kerbs and things you're likely to need to cross.

Hence, even though drivers are issued with dollies and trained in their use, many deliveries are made without the dollies because they don't make things all that much easier.

<comment><USER26> You also don't want the dolly in your kitchen because you don't know what it rolled over before that. As an Ocado driver pointed out to me.

<comment><USER27> > You also don't want the dolly in your kitchen because you don't know what it > rolled over before that.

How are the dolly's wheels any different from the delivery person's shoes?

<comment><USER26> Only one person wears the shoes and (maybe) takes care where they walk. Many people use a single dolly over different shifts and don't know what the last user did with it.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Adeo Ressi: If Common Stock Is Worthless, What Does That Mean for Entrepreneurship? - <AUTHOR> http://www.pehub.com/38110/if-common-stock-is-worthless-what-does-that-mean-for-entrepreneurship/

<comment><USER2> Market forces are mostly to blame for the devaluation of common stock.

When you negotiate that first round with the VCs, it's all about who has more power in the negotiation. A known weakness of the newbie entrepreneur is that they don't know all the tricks that VCs put as hidden terms.

That's one reason I like Adeo's initiatives to bring transparency and shed the light on the VC industry's practices.</comment>


What's New in Java 12? - <AUTHOR> https://blog.gypsyengineer.com/en/tech/what-is-new-in-java-12.html <comment><USER2> Yeah, they finally fixed the switch statement after more than twenty years!

One sad thing about Java is that they followed the syntax of C (and C++) even when it is obviously terrible. Falling through to the next case is occasionally useful, but it's so rare that it should never have been the default. Either there should have been a "fallthrough;" statement, or better yet, a "goto case 5;" syntax.</comment>


'Corporations Are People' Is Built on a 19th-Century Lie - <AUTHOR> https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2018/03/corporations-people-adam-winkler/554852/?single_page=true <comment><USER2> Associations of individuals do not have fewer rights as associations than they do as individuals. Individuals have the right to free speech, so does any association of individuals. Why is it so problematic?</comment>


A GUI framework for C# console applications - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/TomaszRewak/C-sharp-console-gui-framework <comment><USER2> The correct term for this sort of "GUI framework" is text-based user interface (TUI)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text- based_user_interface](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text-based_user_interface)

</comment><comment><USER3> Here is a version written by Miguel de Icaza. I don't know if it is maintained.

[https://github.com/migueldeicaza/gui.cs](https://github.com/migueldeicaza/gui.cs)

<comment><USER4> He merged commits 3 days, ago... that would lead one to believe it's maintained.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> The chess game screenshot sort of reminded me of the StarTrek game DEC used to leave running in their showrooms in the 70's and 80's: [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Star_Trek_text_game....](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Star_Trek_text_game.png)

I remember being kicked out by salesmen many times while sitting there playing. They seemed very annoyed that no adults "got it", but many kids did.

<comment><USER6> > _They seemed very annoyed that no adults "got it", but many kids did._

They were all lobeless creatures who couldn't spot an _opportunity_ even if it hit them in the face. A true Ferengi would know how to handle this.

<comment><USER5> To their credit, they did donate a lot of VAX equipment to New Hampshire public schools where I grew up. They did seem to get the long game there. It certainly worked on me. DEC's bigger misses came later.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Just curious: Why would someone do a TUI (text-based user interface) on a modern computer?

Using C# implies that you're running on a device powerful enough for a traditional GUI.

(And you really don't need much to run C#, just enough RAM / Disk for the framework and to handle the overhead of the garbage collector.)

<comment><USER8> Very common for server software, where you may not have a GUI environment installed.

You can run SSH as a server on windows boxes easily now, and depending on your needs (or to standardize across a heterogeneous fleet of servers) it might make sense to have some good CLI/TUI utilities available that are cross- platform.

While I imagine most people won't jump to a TUI for Windows, it could also be a secondary interface for an application that's run on both Windows and Linux/BSD. If no GUI (or no Windows GUI) is detected, approximate the same display using a TUI. The guys of the application can be the same, and you don't have to ship two versions (assuming the rest of the internals area already portable).

<comment><USER7> (Joke)

Then maybe a cool project is an adapter to allow the text-based GUI to work natively when running in a GUI!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> What I like about this in contrast to Miguel's TUI is how easy it is to change the colors for the interface.

I wish it would have mouse support, though - not sure how much effort it would be to add it to it. Mouse support is something I really like about GUI.cs

</comment><comment><USER10> Now if only we could get cross platform WPF for C#

<comment><USER11> I've used WPF, and I have no specific issue with it (and believe it was an upgrade over Forms). But even as someone very familiar with C#/WPF, and a fan of C#/.Net Core I cannot see why you'd want to port WPF when a platform like Electron exists and already works extremely well as a cross-platform framework.

It isn't simply the functionality, but also the massive community/examples/tutorials/etc that already exist for the JavaScript/Node/Electron ecosystem. WPF, even on Windows, is much smaller but if they ever ported it to Linux/MacOS/iOS/iPadOS/Android the resources would be microscopic, and it would be a legitimate limiter to the platform's success.

It would largely be dead on arrival. I wouldn't even use it (and I am their core developer demographic). The only argument people can make is performance, and WPF isn't exactly speedy itself (particularly without hardware acceleration). Plus you're competing with a much better ingrained Qt.

I was actually trying to create a cross-platform solution this weekend between PyQt and Electron, and ultimately wound up using Electron, not because it is better within itself but because you have this huge ecosystem of samples/snippets/etc to built upon. It is a productivity multiplier.

<comment><USER12> There are many reasons why one would not want to use Electron to write an application.

\- An Electron application is necessarily slower and larger than a native application with the same functionality

\- An Electron application is yet another browser instance on a user's machine, with all the vulnerabilities of that version of Chrome

Those two _alone_ are enough reasons for a lot of (but still far too few) developers.

Software is getting slower much more rapidly than hardware is getting faster, and one of the reasons for that is Electron and how seductive it is to application developers.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I wonder how hard it would be to port proper ncurses now that Windows 10 has reasonably complete VT100+ support.

</comment><comment><USER14> a GUI for CLIs is called a TUI.

<comment><USER15> Tangible user interfaces? Ah according to wiki it now also means text-user interface.

<comment><USER16> Terminal User Interface or Text-based User Interface

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Very cool, can't wait to try it out! I've been using Miguel de Icaza's Console project with success but I feel this project might have a ton more options and flexibility!

</comment><comment><USER18> This is very interesting. Really glad to see this implemented as a .NET Standard 2.0 package. I've had a huge problem with making UIs for various systems. Something like this could be a good starting point for building a cross-platform, minimally viable GUI for those systems. I don't need native- looking GUI, I just need functional and not completely broken like Unity's GUI system is/are.

</comment><comment><USER19> This implements the WPF-esque grid model, as mentioned. Does anyone know of a performant grid-based ncurses library?

</comment><comment><USER20> Wow we've gone full circle. This is reminiscent of Visual Basic for MSDOS which was quite frankly excellent.

<comment><USER21> Which was preceded by Borland's Turbo Vision: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_Vision](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_Vision)

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> This reminds me of the sheer joy of Borland's Turbo Vision circa 1991.

<comment><USER23> Turbo Vision is still kinda sorta alive as FreeVision, shipped as part of FreePascal, and driving their TUI IDE that's visually a clone of Borland Pascal for DOS:

[https://i.imgur.com/Zj2KOG1.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Zj2KOG1.jpg)

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> I was just thinking yesterday that it would be cool if there was something like this for VSCode, just like for the well known text editors, so I can launch it in an ssh session.

<comment><USER25> VS Code has _really_ good support for editing over SSH built into a preview extension now [0]. It is as seamless as running vim over ssh, except it's a GUI app running locally connected to a temporary VS Code server on the remote. It even supports extensions installed on the remote. I've tried so many different implementations to get Sublime working in this config (like SSH forwarding a samba share) and they're all terrible compared to VS Code's.

[0] [https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/remote- overview](https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/remote-overview)

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> What would this be used for?

<comment><USER27> I use these kind of text based ui's for internal tools where dealing with a full graphical UI is often 50% or more of the actual work. It's easier for the novice user to use tools with basic text based user interface than to use command lines, but it's much faster to develop than a WPF app (and it's multi platform)

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> I wish we could do this easily with emacs

<comment><USER14> hydras are more or less this.

<comment><USER28> I think that this project is about displaying information graphically in a textual interface. I think with emacs you can do so but it's difficult. I think hydras are not this. Hydras are more or less for grouping commands together.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> I wonder why the vertical lines have breaks in them. It didn't used to be like that in the old days.

<comment><USER30> Just an annoyance in the Consolas font metrics. It would look correct in the bitmapped old console font.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> Reminds me of UNIX curses

</comment><comment> iso-8859-1 So is this cross-platform? How does it compare to [http://hackage.haskell.org/package/brick](http://hackage.haskell.org/package/brick) ?

<comment><USER21> It's .Net Core but there doesn't seem to be any mention of running it on Linux or macOS.

<comment><USER18> The example is .NET Core 2.1, but the actual library itself is .NET Standard 2.0.

It will depend on how the System.Console class is implemented in Linux and macOS. It might fair better to port the example to Mono or .NET Core 3.0 (which should just be a change of build settings).

      _______________
      |   |     |   |
      |   | STD |   |
      |   |_____|   |
      |      |      |
      |  FX  | CORE |
      |______|______|</comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: Basic Set Operations - <AUTHOR> https://sets.alephnull.co <comment><USER2> I can see how some people would want a web-based tool to used quickly and easily, although personally it's not the approach I would take. Many years ago I wrote python programs set_minus, set_union, and set_intersect that take two (or more) sets and print the appropriate result. For example

        set_minus A B

... prints every line in A that's not in B. Similarly the others.

Fast, clean, command-line, results to be piped to be processed or put into files.

Alternatively, if you want to union files you can just do this:

        sort A B | sort -u

If you want to find the intersection:

        sort <( sort -u A ) <( sort -u B ) \
        | uniq -c \
        | grep " 2 " \
        | sed "s/^ *2 *//"

So all these things are easily done from the command line.

Even so, as I said, I can see how some people would want a web-based tool, so thanks for sharing!

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Hey guys!

I thought this might be interesting to other people! I built this little tool because I often found myself needing to quickly calculate a union, intersection, or difference of two lists, but there wasn't an easy way to it (aside from pulling up Excel and building a v-lookup).

I thought it might be useful to share, I've been using it a bunch to just quickly do some data operations and then drop the result into a SQL query or job processor.

Let me know if you have any feedback!</comment>


Why Women Aren't Funny (2007) - <AUTHOR> http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2007/01/hitchens200701

<comment> B-Con Without commenting on the content of the article, I did find myself amused by this line:

> Please do not pretend not to know what I am talking about.

So many times I will read an article that dares talk about some mildly sensitive topic and two paragraphs in I can already see the plethora of idiotic ways the article will be interpreted and mis-construed. It's simply too hard to cover _all_ your bases in anything less than a thesis and there seem to be an army of people out there who refuse to take anything written on the Internet as less than one. When I read comments on such a piece (why, WHY, do I do that so often?) I'm rarely disappointed.

So many of said comments are blind nit-picking, blatant misconstruing, etc, and make me want to yell, "you KNOW what the author meant, why are you trying so hard to PRETEND that you don't?"

Good for him -- and anyone -- for inserting this sort of "you know what I mean?" disclaimer. In real life this kind of statement is implied in a lot of casual conversation.

</comment><comment><USER2> Scientific research shows women are better at appreciating humour. Vanity Fair reporter displays gross failure of reading comprehension and in a spectacular non sequitur asserts that this means women aren't funny.

That article was a joke, right? And only women find it funny?</comment>