Ask HN: Advice for a frustrated CS student - <AUTHOR>

Hello everyone,
I'm a 21-year-old CS junior undergraduate, and it looks like I can't put my mind into working on side projects.
I don't have problems with the field of Computer Engineering , I actually find it quite fascinating and interesting. I'm hooked by reverse engineering, and I'm thinking into working in Information Security. My university doesn't have such a cursus, so I devised I had to earn some experience by myself via some side projects, solving online CTFs.
Except I can't help being deterred and frustrated when trying to work on them. I try to code a little something, a little game, google some documentation, write some snippets, ducttape them together and see the whole thing self-destruct with obscure exceptions. Googling those errors doesn't bear fruit often.
Yes, I'm aware of all the trial and error involved in programming, but I noticed that frustration comes back when I tackle any kind of creative endeavour (I'm currently trying to learn how to draw) and even when playing video games (roguelikes and shoot them up games).
I would also like to feel that thrill when solving problems on your own, making "air castles" from scratch.
How can I get over that frustration? How can I acquire the persistence necessary to undertake any project and see it through to completion?
I know that there is some kind of "playfulness" involved in it, but I can't put a finger on it....
Thank you for your time. <comment><USER2> "Nobody tells this to people who are beginners, I wish someone told me. All of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, it's just not that good. It's trying to be good, it has potential, but it's not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase, they quit. Most people I know who do interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn't have this special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know its normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you will finish one story. It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I've ever met. It's gonna take awhile. It's normal to take awhile. You've just gotta fight your way through." - Ira Glass

</comment><comment><USER3> I am currently experiencing the same phenomena. Prior to being educated to code, I could hack until 5AM. Post-school, I can barely toy with a new language. Most side projects seem inadequate or too overwhelming!

Even in the workforce, I complete projects in a timely manner with a very meticulous mindset, but they never feel like accomplishments anymore. They are just artifacts.

I think one of my issues is I have swayed from the objects that drew me to computing as a hobby. I loved blackhat hacking, socializing in IRC, and gaming on quakeworld.

I have Google Glass sitting at home on my desk. I installed the toy REST app and sent a few hello worlds to the device. I have a list of domains waiting to be populated with content and apps. I just don't have the passion anymore.

I get a glimpse of it when I get to work on my car. Opening up that terminal just never brings that adrenaline anymore.

<comment><USER4> I'm not sure you understand what black hat hacking is.

Black hat means that you use your knowledge of computer security to commit crimes. If that's the case, it's not a good idea to express such an idea on an account linked to what I can only assume is your actual name.

I suspect, and I hope for your sake, that you are using the term as a way to describe the entire field of network security, which includes White Hats, Grey Hats, and Black Hats.

<comment><USER3> I just do not have any fear around things that happened in 1998.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Get a job with smart people. No seriously I'm 22 and was never ever able to complete anything programming related until I started working and was forced to stay on major projects.

The problem was I actually sucked at programming, something I didn't realize until I started working. Being forced to put your nose to the grindstone and work with large code bases teaches you so much. My first few months were frustration after frustration all of which would have resulted in me abandoning the project if I wasn't stuck at work.

The result was after the co-op I was able to actually progress meaningfully in my hobby projects which resulted in me actually sticking with them.

</comment><comment><USER6> As someone else said, copy/pasting from websites isn't going to help you learn anything. Likewise, looking up a solution to a problem isn't going to teach you how to solve that problem. You may think you learn the solution, but the only way you really learn it is to figure it out yourself. Try solving some problems and writing some programs while limiting yourself to only looking up specific questions. Questions about language syntax, or what functions are offered to do a certain task. This is easier accomplished when trying to break your Google addiction if you sit and think about the problem first. Sketch out your idea and maybe put down some basic pseudo code. After you think your model is fairly complete, start coding it. As you code it only look up documentation (such as JavaDoc) to find how to do what you outlined in your pseudo code. As you program it you will likely think of better ways to do things. Try to finish without looking up and solutions online, then review your code and debug it. Make sure your code works the way you expected it to and is as good as you can think of making it. Then, and only then, look up what a good, correct solution to the problem is. Now when you see the solution you will make connections to your code and how you can optimize it. Things will make more sense, start to fall into place, and you'll learn a lot more if you take this approach. It will be more frustrating at first, but in the end it will feel far more rewarding because you actually understand it.

<comment><AUTHOR> I also think that googling code and problems can be quite troublesome when abused, as IRC, forums, etc... But I feel like coding by yourself without google, irc is kinda frightening.

I know asking for help when you really need some isn't wrong, but how did older programmers tackle that conceptual "blank page" syndrome, without all that information abundance, when they didn't want to annoy their coworkers?

What you described here makes sense as a software building methodology, but how do you deal with more psychological issues, such as fear and frustration?

<comment><USER7> > I know asking for help when you really need some isn't wrong, but how did > older programmers tackle that conceptual "blank page" syndrome, without all > that information abundance, when they didn't want to annoy their coworkers?

Books. And desire. And breaking things down and doing one step at a time. "Information abundance" is a mixed blessing; it makes it much easier to find information, but it makes it a lot easier for people to get out of the habit of working things through.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> A CS degree is a waste of time and money. Are you really going to need to write a compiler at work? Go get a Security+, CCNA, RHCE, and MCSE in two - three years. Give yourself a personal MBA by reading these books: [http://personalmba.com/best-business-books/](http://personalmba.com/best- business-books/)

Join Toastmasters to learn public speaking: [http://reports.toastmasters.org/findaclub/](http://reports.toastmasters.org/findaclub/)

Complete an online course about project management.

<comment><AUTHOR> Well, I concede formal education isn't much compared to hands-on experience, but public education is dirt cheap where I live, even free if you have a scholarship like I do (I'm French just so you know). So IMO, having a degree at such a price isn't useless nor a time/money sink - at least when comparing to US/UK, but I don't want to think it exempt me from working on my own on side projects.

I'll most likely need certifications, but my scholarship cannot cover that for now. I'll save up for those once I'm in a taskforce.

<comment><USER8> I do not mean to be so negative about higher education, or any education. I just believe getting a CS degree to learn how to program contemporary technologies is a poor path to take.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> What are online CTFs? My advice would be to try your hand at some other aspects of programming. Games are hard to break into. Have you tried building websites or apps? Put that drawing practice into use on some cool websites. Try and teach yourself backend programming using ruby on rails. Build a portfolio website. Buy yourself some server space and learn how to set it up. Setting up a portfolio and creating websites, showing off games (if you do want to pursue that) and anything else you code up is probably the best thing you can do for your career while you're in school.

<comment><AUTHOR> Online CTFs are computer security challenges (reversing binaries, exploits, cryptography/steganography challgenges, forensics). I'm trying my hand at those, although I'm still stammering :)

I also tried teaching myself some Django via online tutorials, but I must say web development isn't my cup of tea : One of those tutorials showed how to make a basic blog. I typed all the code by hand step by step. The admin interface shows up, the development server runs without errors, but errors arise in urls.py and the templates. I copypaste the relevant code to check. "Unmatched parenthesis" template error still showing. Googling the error: no relevant matches. I flip the table and ragequit.)

I like to think I have low-frustration tolerance, although I pick high- frustration video games (I'd probably love Dark Souls), but I still want it to develop that skill in case of (to show my portfolio yup, but in my case, said portfolio is pretty much inexistent, and that worries me to have nothing to show to potential employers, especially in the field I aim to work.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> You clearly don't like to program.

The playfulness comes from developing an internal map of how the programming language you use exposes the underlying system. Cutting and pasting from examples is not going to help you.

Solving problems sets with discreet tasks attached to them like the project euler problems may help give you a structure to develop your fundamentals.

<comment><USER11> My thoughts.

If you dont enjoy doing it in your free time. Don't try to force yourself. You will never succeed. If you are an aspiring entrepreneur then there are still plenty of ways to get involved in the startup scene without being a code monkey. One lesson I learned is that if you enjoy something, you will both do well and want to persevere when the going gets tough.

<comment><AUTHOR> I probably don't like going through the hurdles associated with problem solving, but I'm not going to give up for all that.

I don't get excitement and joy from programming: so what? There are moments when I can't get pleasure or joy out of anything I do, like sleeping or eating, but it doesn't mean I should stop doing either of those things.

I'm not interested by entrepreneurship and startups for the moment, for now I'm more into acquiring technical skill.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Finish school, and then find a job working with smart people. In that order. :)

There's no requirement that you be doing other interesting job-related work while in school. Enjoy that time any way that you find best, as long as you finish strong.</comment>


The Highest Form of Flattery - <AUTHOR> https://keen.io/blog/46309336554/the-highest-form-of-flattery

<comment><AUTHOR> One of our customers just alerted us to this copycat website. We view it as a really nice compliment to our designer, Micah Wolfe! I love the comment someone left in their feedback "an original website". [https://recomio.uservoice.com/forums/198081-general/suggesti...](https://recomio.uservoice.com/forums/198081-general/suggestions/3784097-an- original-website)

<comment><USER2> Did you contact them before smearing them in public?

<comment><USER3> In what way is this a smear?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Reminds me of kids in secondary school who copy their homework directly from Wikipedia and then forget (or don't know how) to remove formatting and hyperlinks, bringing to their teachers printouts full of blue, underlined text.

If copy-pasting without leaving such obvious traces of it is such a difficult thing for people, then our civilization is doomed.

</comment><comment><USER5> Yes the design looks similar but it looks like just a UI copy. The styling, scripts are pretty much different.

Fun fact:

keen.ico (OP) : banner_icons_light.png 800 x 454

recom.io(Alleged copier) : banner_icons_light.png 3928 x 2228

<comment><USER6> _keen.ico (OP) : banner_icons_light.png 800 x 454_

 _recom.io(Alleged copier) : banner_icons_light.png 3928 x 2228_

The image on keen.io has "_small" in the filename (not as you typed it). The large version of the image is also hosted on keen.io's AWS: [https://keen_web_static.s3.amazonaws.com/img/banner_icons_li...](https://keen_web_static.s3.amazonaws.com/img/banner_icons_light.png)

<comment><USER7> If the rip-off company is hot-linking images or CSS files then it gives keen.io an excellent opportunity to mess with them. Keen.io just has to copy the files to a new folder, update their HTML - then start having fun with the old images.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I'd definitely fork that

</comment><comment><USER9> I like how they're linking directly to the keen S3 bucket that hosts google prettify's CSS.

</comment><comment><USER10> There used to be a great website for this kind of thing (<http://pirated- sites.com/>), but it's unfortunately dead.

Maybe that's a nice project for someone else?

</comment><comment><USER11> It looks completely different now: [http://ctrlq.org/files/screenshots/b76a925667955563e430ac0d7...](http://ctrlq.org/files/screenshots/b76a925667955563e430ac0d7ab14e99.png)

</comment><comment><USER12> They're hosted on EC2 (or some platform running on EC2). I wonder with what granularity Amazon responds to DMCA notices? Do they terminate the instance, delete the AMI, suspend the account?

</comment><comment><USER13> meh, its just a bunch a rules in css and some simple images. its more a question of fashion rather than intellectual property.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> hmm... seems recom.io took down their site now

<comment><USER14> Still there for me.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> At least change the background colors.

</comment><comment><USER16> comment.insert(-1, "great minds think alike")</comment>


Why Toronto is the best city for startups - <AUTHOR> http://www.thestar.com/business/small_business/leadership/2013/03/06/better-than-silicon-valley--hubba-s-4-reasons-why-toronto-s-the-.html

<comment><USER2> Love that Hubba is repping the Toronto startup scene. What a fantastic, thriving community to be a part of.</comment>


24 Arrested At Citibank - <AUTHOR> http://www.businessinsider.com/17-arrested-inside-this-citibank-during-occupy-wall-street-march-2011-10

<comment><USER2> One interesting angle this highlights is the trouble with figuring out what (if anything) to do about activity that is perfectly legal individually, but can be disruptive if done _en masse_. It's obviously legal, and not trespassing, to go to your bank. It's also obviously legal to go with 2 or 3 friends or family members at the same time. Also most likely, with a van full of 8-9 people who happen to all need to withdraw some cash (maybe you're heading together to a strip club or casino or something). At which point does it become illegal to organize a group of people to go (legitimately) use the bank's services simultaneously?</comment>


Show HN: Python library for learning binarytrees - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/joowani/binarytree <comment><USER2> Minor suggestion: I would replace 'learning' with 'studying' for clarity, since "learning trees" instantly associates with gradient boosting (e.g. xgboost/lightgbm) in machine learning.

<comment><AUTHOR> Done!

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Or you could learn algorithms properly

[https://algs4.cs.princeton.edu/home/](https://algs4.cs.princeton.edu/home/)

[https://algs4.cs.princeton.edu/30searching/](https://algs4.cs.princeton.edu/30searching/)

and write your own trees.

There is a free coursera course that goes along with the princeton algorithm website. Also this website has tons of exercises to help you master the subject. Not to mention all their code is freely available ( though it is in Java, not python ).

I'm a believer of learning by doing. Using something others have built for you isn't an optimal way of learning anything. Especially binary trees and the more encompassing subject of algorithms.

<comment><USER4> It was clear to me as well as some other commenters here that the point in this library is to practice algorithms on binary trees and pretty print their output.

Studying algorithms while using a library for the implementation of the underlying data structure is still very much "learning by doing." This assumption being that you already understand how to implement that data structure and would like to concentrate on studying algorithms on that data structure.

It's very odd that you have chosen to declare this "improper" and discredit it as a result of your own misunderstanding. The documentation clearly states the author's intentions:

"It allows you to skip the tedious work of setting up test data, and dive straight into practising your algorithms."[1]

[1] [https://binarytree.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html](https://binarytree.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html)

<comment><USER3> Setting up the test data and pretty printing the tree is part of the learning process. I'd say it is essential.

Writing pretty printers for trees is one of the best ways to verify you actually know how a tree works rather than having a superficial understanding of it.

> It's very odd that you have chosen to declare this "improper" and discredit > it as a result of your own misunderstanding.

Because that's not the proper way to learn binary trees. I felt I gave good reasons for why. You learn binary trees by building one yourself. That's the best way.

So you use data provided by others. You use pretty printers provided by others. You use implementation provided by others. So what have you learned?

Part of the learning process, especially in algorithms, is creating your own data ( to test edge cases, speed, etc ). Part of learning is setting up your own pretty printer because it sure isn't trivial the first time you do it.

Something as fundamental like binary trees and algorithms should be taught/learned properly.

<comment><USER5> > You learn binary trees by building one yourself. That's the best way.

Sure - do it once, but if you're trying to wrap your head around a new algorithm or just trying to focus on one particular problem, it's very de- motivating to not have quality debug-printers, random-data-generators, etc.

Story: I was once trying to wrap my head around heap.remove() (and the associated sift-up) and I had my own tree class and various ways to print and inspect it. I couldn't for the life of me figure out why my sift wasn't working. Wasted like an hour on it. Turns out it _was_ working, it was just my printing/test-harness stuff that was flawed. Sure that was a useful hard- knock, but it really served as a distraction from what I was trying to do at the moment. Made me stop doing tree katas for a few weeks out of frustration.

> Something as fundamental like binary trees and algorithms should be > taught/learned properly.

"Properly" is pejorative here. I would say this class/lib is an extremely useful part of learning more advanced tree/algo concepts properly.

Having a helper class that solves some of the basics well and sets you up for success lets you focus on the larger problems without having to constantly re- visit the basics. It's how abstractions are made and learned.

<comment><USER6> > I couldn't for the life of me figure out why my sift wasn't working. Wasted > like an hour on it. Turns out it was working, it was just my printing/test- > harness stuff that was flawed. Sure that was a useful hard-knock, but it > really served as a distraction from what I was trying to do at the moment.

What you think is an unnecessary distraction is in my opinion a very important experience and part of the learning process. Everything you hand-code for your own data structure be it pretty-print, test-harness, etc. are all important while learning.

> Having a helper class that solves some of the basics well and sets you up > for success lets you focus on the larger problems without having to > constantly re-visit the basics.

Once you have built the data structures bottom-up from scratch along with all the additional utilities to pretty-print it, test it, etc. you have your helpers ready already. There is no need to use someone else's helpers at that point.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I really like the idea of libraries that make it easy to learn a data structure/algorithm/general concept. Thank you for publishing this! It will certainly make CS concepts easier to teach.

</comment><comment><USER8> Semi-off topic, but I recently had a binary tree interview question and it made me think about if I ever implemented a binary tree aside from a college course.

Has anyone ever used a binary tree in production code somewhere? The closest thing I used was a linked list

</comment><comment><USER9> [https://algs4.cs.princeton.edu/30searching/](https://algs4.cs.princeton.edu/30searching/)

</comment><comment><USER10> I was just thinking of writing something like this to practice algorithms. Glad to see it exists already.

</comment><comment><USER11> Thank you</comment>


Testing a New Way to Discover and Buy Products on Facebook - <AUTHOR> https://www.facebook.com/business/news/Discover-and-Buy-Products-on-Facebook-Test

<comment><USER2> When is facebook finally going to understand that people are not on facebook to buy shit. They're there to communicate with people.

<comment><USER3> When people stop buying things on Facebook

They have yet to do so, and Facebook ads remain lucrative.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> How come an ad is called 'Suggested Post'?

<comment><USER5> They just omit the identity of the suggestor..

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Talk about closing the attribution gap present in almost all paid advertising.

</comment><comment><USER7> Next evolution: use their recognition algorithms to identify shirts, jewelry,... in your friends photos and have "buy now" buttons all over the picture.

<comment><USER8> I actually think that could be a decent way to balance the fact that people don't want to see ads with the fact that FB has to have ads in order to make money. As long as they did it in a way that didn't disrupt the user experience too much

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I like this for microtransactions, but I don't buy it for physical goods.

Couple reasons:

First, I'm surprised that anyone would purchase with so little information. A photo/price doesn't seem like enough room to make the sale.

Second, the merchant loses the chance to upsell and/or retarget the customer.

What's the counterargument? That the conversion rate is improved enough to offset these downsides?

<comment><USER10> Shopping experience on amazon seems much better but to counter-argue: 1) incremental sales are gold and 2) I'd say getting a sale actually provides a huge opportunity to cross-sell/engage.

I'm guessing this wont do well for mainstream, amazon-style commerce but could find some niches like impulse buys, donations, tickets, etc.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Are they taking 30% of the payment?

<comment><USER12> Advertisers are still paying for the ads, so probably not.

<comment><USER11> As logical as that sounds it's not the way it works for the "Buy Now" buttons they've been testing on Virtual Goods ads for a while now: [https://developers.facebook.com/docs/payments/ads_virtual_go...](https://developers.facebook.com/docs/payments/ads_virtual_goods)

You pay to get distribution for your ad and if it converts you pay 30% of the total purchase price on top of that.

<comment><USER13> Facebook and YouTube have both tried product sales with insane revenue splits and seem to have failed so far. Not sure why they are trying this again.

My guess is that most don't have 30% _of gross_ spare when they could just link out. It's one level of egregious for Apple to do it but at least they have the stored credit cards to throw around, not really sure what Facebook is bringing to the table here.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Wonder if they will allow 3rd party payments through paypal, amazon, or google.

<comment><USER15> If I were Facebook I'd want to control the entire process. I imagine for the majority of their users it will be easier to simply get a credit card on file and use that moving forward.

WRT _get a credit card on file_. Why would Facebook outsource storing payment information?

Have any of the big players (Google, Apple, Facebook, Amazon, etc) allowed you to pay with a third party payment provider?

<comment><USER16> You can use Paypal on Google Play: [https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/4646425?hl=en](https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/4646425?hl=en)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> This is great news! Two Tap (YC W14) offers a buy button for any app and we're regularly seeing multipliers on conversion rate on mobile when streamlining the checkout.

</comment><comment><USER18> Fuck this.</comment>


Advances in NLP to better connect people - <AUTHOR> https://ai.facebook.com/blog/new-advances-in-natural-language-processing-to-better-connect-people/ <comment><USER2> I have refused to get hired by google and Facebook because they give me the creeps. Duck duck go cannot afford me. Maybe, _we_ can start our own search/social/nlp startup? I don't care about making _any_ money, if you are in the same boat as I am (dreading the status quo, wanting to do something, don't need or not driven by money, reply to this and we will try to make it happen - reminds me of the hypersane post from a couple days ago btw, the crazies not driven by materialism and can see through shit).

<comment><USER3> Honest question - If you don't care about making any money, why can't Duck Duck Go afford you?

<comment><USER2> Generally speaking, at most companies, one's credibility and therefore ability to affect outcomes is directly linked to titles and compensation (generally speaking). This is why they (or really any incumbents) cannot afford me. Besides, while I don't care about money that puts bread on the table, a privacy focused communication and/or search platform that turns into a successful and sustainable business is definitely something I am interested in.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> "To better connect people" is the Orwellian horseshit phrase of the week.

<comment><USER5> It never seems to involve open chat protocols, does it?

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Facebook has a great AI and apparently also NLP team , a great framework , and tons of resources. They should make a search engine.

<comment><USER7> They're already modern version of web directory with millions of contributors so they probably just need to organise it. Or they already did it ? Did they ?

<comment><USER8> like the AOL of this generation

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Hey, we're using NLP to help you rather than spy on you. No...really!

<comment><USER10> I'm afraid that's pretty close to my initial reaction too. When I read the headline, there was an implied suffix of "so we can more effectively intrude on your privacy".

It's a great shame. There are clearly some very talented people at Facebook. But all that work is paid for by a dystopian business model that has moved effortlessly and insidiously from connecting people for benign social good (or at least relatively so) to one that facilitates erosion of privacy and social manipulation on a global scale. As a software engineer I'm deeply troubled that the craft I've loved since my teens is being wielded to such negative societal consequence.

<comment> java-man you don't think it _was_ the design goal from the start?

<comment><USER11> It started as a "Hot or Not" type co-ed rating app....</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Windows 10 is bringing ads to File Explorer – how to turn them off - <AUTHOR> https://thenextweb.com/apps/2017/03/10/windows-10-is-bringing-shitty-ads-to-file-explorer-heres-how-to-turn-them-off/ <comment><USER4> Here's a better idea - show Microsoft that you don't accept this type of behaviour by switching products/services.

I'm aware that Windows 10 is a "free" OS, but trying to ram this type of behaviour down my throat is despicable unethical behaviour and I don't condone it. It is why I've switched to Linux for my daily computing needs.

<comment><USER5> > trying to ram this type of behaviour down my throat is despicable unethical > behaviour and I don't condone it. It is why I've switched to Linux for my > daily computing needs.

Last time I used Linux (well, Ubuntu specifically) every time I searched for anything in the file system I would see at least half a dozen ads for products on Amazon. Significantly worse than anything I've ever seen in Windows 10 personally. Uninstalled it and never using it again.

<comment><USER6> Yes, one distro (of dozens people use) tried running ads once, it was a PR disaster, and they stopped doing it quite a while back.

<comment><USER7> That a bit like saying "Google, one of dozens of browser makers".

Ubuntu has 50% market share.

<comment><USER6> If you want to be pedantic about it, why not focus on the ads being half a decade ago and not in the past couple of LTS releases?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> > how to turn them off

Switch to Linux.

Windows 10 Home is now $119 and tracks you. Microsoft is trying to sell you a product and monetize your behavior. They are pursuing a way to maintain their cash cow and have an avenue to push Google out.

<comment><USER9> This works well if your hobbies include manually editing obscure config files and replacing perfectly good hardware, and if your hobbies do not include playing games.

I frequently explore the possibility of switching to Linux, and while it's not the garbage fire it was 15 years ago, it's still just not a peer to Windows for the way I use my computer.

<comment><USER10> I agree. Linux is a world full of obscure acronyms and undiscoverable CLI commands. RTFM or nothing. I would like to switch to Linux (particularly when I read these things) but I just don't have the time to learn all the basic things the hard way and deal with all the compatibility issues.

<comment><USER11> See, this is exactly the problem I have with Windows. It's full of obscure exes and undiscoverable settings (wtf is the registry? fuck). It's like I'd have to have years of experience (since 98 or something) to understand fully. Also it has compatibility issues out the butt with hardware that 'justworks' on linux.

With windows 10, this has gotten /way/ worse. Sure bluetooth works out of the box, but sometimes it just disapperates. I'm doing like, rain dances and getting tons of wrong answers out of google, only to find out that somehow Windows decided to turn the radio off, and there's actually no way to re- enable it except booting into linux because when the radio's off, windows says the hardware is physically /not there/.

I install it for a while, play some steam games, then usually just boot it out and go back to linux.

It's generally hard to switch operating systems, not just one way.

<comment><USER12> I agree that Windows is insanely hard to use. I helped someone get their new windows computer up and running and I spent more than an hour figuring how to make it not open MSN.com every time it booted, I had to edit some registry key.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Are the ads only for storage service? At first I was thinking we'd start seeing banner ads like we do on blogs. If it's only Microsoft pushing their own integrated services I don't really have much of a problem, but for software I paid for showing third party ads when I never ever had an expectation of such a thing then I do agree it is very horrible.

The "Not now" button does seem like a anti-pattern instead of a simple no. Reminds me on how iOS apps bug you over and over again to rate them. I assume in X amount of time, it would show the banner again? I think it should be like "Learn More" or "Dismiss". Then have Dismiss never show it again on that device(unless they did like a reinstall of the OS). I'm sure it's useful to know it's available, especially to non tech people but you shouldn't have to jump into a long list of settings to stop it.

Imagine some day your car dashboard updates and starts showing banner ads for deals at near by places when the car never did it in the first place. That'd be kinda creepy too.

<comment><USER14> The only one I've seen was for their storage services. I admit it surprised me initially, but I suppose it could be worse. Hopefully it does not go the way of Skype which (for me) is almost entirely unusable on Windows these days due (I assume) to the ads locking up/hanging the process.

<comment><USER15> [https://gist.github.com/joielechong/d0042338fd3132013aec4ee5...](https://gist.github.com/joielechong/d0042338fd3132013aec4ee56045e558)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> We're doing some qualification of Windows Server 2016, which we use to run some business logic [insert history here]. Imagine my surprise when I found some Cortana-related processes running on one of the test boxes.

Cortana. On an OS that's supposed to be a _server_. I can tell that I'm going to have a ton of fun locking this stupid thing down. Also, seeing a process named "NetworkSpy" got fun, fast; whoever named that thing sure knew how to get my attention.

I like the core Windows OS; it's a nice kernel. But there's a lot of crap on top of it, and their testing is getting worse. Ask me about Remote Desktop regressions... well, don't. It's the weekend and I want to forget.

<comment><USER17> The forced restarts on a server are funny too. As is the feedback information to Microsoft (which iirc can not be turned off completely, only to basic, maybe there is a registry/gpo hack but i havent played with this yet).

Can't set the "active hours" to more than 12 hours to prevent restarting when it dictates, so end up disabling the update service entirely which is a complete anti-pattern to what they were trying to "achieve". I mean, the active hours stuff is a good idea, but for the love of god in a server environment it should be easy to disable automatic restarts.

<comment><USER18> > The forced restarts on a server are funny too.

If you're already using Windows Server, have it serviced by someone trained in it, and you won't see forced restarts. If i can have 100% control of it on my pro system with only out-of-the-box tools, including selection of which updates i want to install and which not, then so can you on the server version.

<comment><USER17> As i said below i am more on about MS even considering this as a default option for a server environment, not about the lack of control.

<comment><USER18> For one: There is no lack of control. I don't know about Home, but from Pro and up you have full and fine-grained control available if you use the correct APIs.

For the other: This is primarily a shift in their philosophy of considering every user someone who would happily endanger the entire internet for their convenience. If you're not the type of person to have received notification of this change as part of your training and/or doesn't double-check it as part of their job duties, they expect you to be the type of person who lets their servers go unpatched and infected by worms sending out spam and DDOS attacks for years.

Mind, they're not saying this out loud, but their actions speak very loud.

<comment><USER19> Might want to check that, anniversary update simple made many of the previous group policy functions, and API calls, only functional on educational and enterprise versions.

<comment><USER18> Nope, i'm using them on an up-to-date pro version. They work.

A lot of that is also misreporting and half truths by journos who don't give a damn about anything but being the first to get the clicks with the most exciting headline. For example the group policy update configuration was changed with the anniversary update to not reflect in the user update ui, but still works perfectly fine and is still reflected in the group policy ui.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> When will Microsoft stop with this shit, and do a 180 degree U-turn? What does it need?

It's unbelievable how MSFT turned Windows from the great Win7 to the worst spyware operating system in human history aka Win10 in just 5 years. Is it just greed? Is it that they failed with Mobile (WinPhone is dead and has 0.1% world wide market share) and Android amd iOS have a bigger market share than Windows 7? (Win10 has way smaller market share). On desktop Windows 7 has like 50% market share, where as Win10 is around 20%. Is it that they failed with XBoxOne, now Sony and Nintendo eat MSFT former console market share as breakfast.

I bought two highend notebooks one a MacBookPro, the other with Win7 Pro preinstalled. The will last for the next five years. I stay with Office 2010 and additionally installed LibreOffice. I skip Win8 and Win10, and I am running Linux in VMs.

What's really disgusting is that in future many smaller companies like law firms, doctors will leak your private confidential data to Microsoft - <USER2> Windows 10 collects audio from connected microphones, collect keystrokes from connected keyboards, and indexes all files on local drives and sends a lot of data home to many different domains (some are owned by Microsoft, some have very dubious names and owners).

<comment><USER21> Well, I think we should calm down from the paranoia a little bit. Nobody has ever proven any actual spying on windows 10 (it's actually a very secure system)

What everybody's talking about are metrics. Anonymous usage metrics. And trust me, as a user and programmer I know of no company that doesn't collect metrics like that. It's totally common.

Between, as far as I know, from the next update "creators" (this or next month) you can actually turn them off too.

<comment><USER20> As a MSFT employee: Provide a proof that Win10 is not sending home the data I mentioned.

Oh wait, it has been documented by third parties.

Win10 has a whitelist in the signed 64bit kernel mode network driver, so you can't stop it except by putting a hardware firewall in front of your Win10 box - good luck with your Win10 notebook.

If an app sends home metrics, it can be stopped with a software firewall. If you can't trust your operating system any more, it's a whole different ballpark.

Adware and spyware companies with their unwanted toolbars and what not got problems with the US law since 2004. Win10 is an adware and spyware per definition, see news article of this HN thread.

<comment><USER21> I haven't denied the metrics. But please provide proof of it sending home non- anonymus data the kind you mentioned. Also, as I said, it should be possible to turn it off soon.

<comment><USER22> Unless the metrics are sent over tor, they aren't really anonymous. How many times have companies claimed they've anonymized data only to find out it was trivial to correlate it with something else?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Note there's ads in lots of other parts of Windows 10 too: the Start menu tiles, the preloaded programs, and the Notifications area. There are different ways to turn each of these off. They are multiplying.

Fuck everything about this. My computer is my tool and my work environment.

<comment><USER24> The lock/login screen too.

<comment><USER25> We've gotten quite attached to the random login screen pictures in our house. At some point they started adding textual explanations after you clicked so you could read a little about what you were looking at. I was surprised how disappointed I was yesterday when instead of the usual explanations it was an ad for some Adobe product. I'm used to ads in the browser but this was personal somehow.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> This sucks, of course. Yet all the comments on this thread saying the solution is to simply switch platforms ignore something very fundamental.

I like to say "Nobody goes to Home Depot to buy a drill bit; what they want to buy is a hole."

I don't use Windows because I want to use Windows. I use it because there are things I need to do that can only be done with it.

The "just switch to Linux" reaction is an understandable engineering reaction. And, frankly, if your world is limited to web development and some forms of embedded development it might make a ton of sense. Yet, from a business perspective it makes no sense outside of scenarios that fit Linux well.

For others it isn't that simple. What would the Linux proponents suggest we do with hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in software not available on any other platform? Solidworks, Siemens NX, Altium Designer, FEA and other simulation tools, CAM and other manufacturing tools, an myriad other applications ranging from business to medicine to engineering that depend on this platform.

The goal of a business is to deliver goods and services, not to play with operating systems. The operating system is irrelevant. It's all about the software that runs on it and the utility it provides to users. As an aside, this, I believe, is exactly where Apple has gone wrong. By insisting on having totalitarian control over everything on their platforms they have effectively limited the utility of their devices. At the same time, this is what makes them so good for a certain range of utilization scenarios.

We use Windows because it is the only way to buy a hole. We could not care less what OS is under the hood. All we care about is the hole we need to drill.

And, frankly, Microsoft has been making a better product with time. I've been using MS products since DOS on the original IBM PC (I bought one when they came out for $3,200). Save missteps here and there, MS software has always improved with time. What they need is our feedback in order to make it even better. The criticism is fair, of course.

<comment><USER27> > an understandable engineering reaction

The point about switching to an alternative isn't an engineering reaction, it's a _political_ suggestion that is based on sending the right message. When MS does something you find objectionable, the way to signal that you strongly disagree in a capitalist system is to vote with your wallet. Continuing to use Window only sends the message that the recent changes are acceptable.

> For others it isn't that simple.

I'm sure it isn't, but that was one of the risks in building a business that depends critically on a product you have zero control over. MS has a very long history of doing things their own way, and usually in their own interest.

> What would the Linux proponents suggest we do with hundreds of thousands of > dollars invested in software not available on any other platform?

Accept that you _may_ have made hundreds of thousands of dollars in bad investments? You invested in tools that depends fundamentally on a risky platform. Investing in new tools and/or rebuilding your business to not depends on tools that are risky or unavailable will probably be time consuming and expensive. Do you want to start paying those costs now? Or do you want to continue using Windows, encourage MS to abuse their product even more, and generally throw more time and money at your current situation? I suggest paying for past mistakes _now_ , because problems tend to get more expensive when you ignore them.

\--

Note that none of the above comments mentioned Linux. I do recommend moving to a Free (as in speech) platform, but the point about switching is to _leave MS_. Often there _isn 't_ any alternative; fortunately Linux/BSD and a lot of really good _does_ exist, so you have _an_ alternative, even if it isn't perfect.

<comment><USER28> Free as in speech is the only point where Windows is still _ok_ , it's free as in beer and free as in freedom where it falls down.

<comment><USER27> Windows is not Free Software, and this entire discussion is about Microsoft's decisions that ignore the wishes of the actual owner of the computer.

Microsoft is forcing changes onto other people's property. If this was a physical product you bought, the manufacturer forcing changes onto _your property_ would be considered _vandalism_. Of course, apologists will try to shift the blame to the victim - the users lacking technical training - <USER3> pointing to dark patterns in the setup or "EULA".

Microsoft isn't the worst offender re: platform freedom, but calling windows "free" ignores decades of bad behavior, the current moves to lock down Windows while adding spyware and other miss-features, and the simple fact that proprietary software outside your control is by definition "not free".

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Funny that Satya Nadella is praised on HN for his business sense and revolutionary thinking, yet when something like this happens, no one seems to remember about him. He is a CEO, it's his signature that allows this. Think about all Windows 10 spying, stupid updates policy etc. next time you praise him.

<comment><USER30> I don't understand your problem: the Windows 10 spying, "stupid" updates policy, etc., are all good examples of Nadella's excellent business sense and revolutionary thinking. He's finally cast off this obsolete, idiotic thinking about not pissing off your customers, and realizes that Windows users aren't going to switch to another OS no matter what, so it makes perfect business sense to milk them for every penny they're worth with ads, spying, forced updates, etc. He's doing an excellent job, though personally I think he could do even better (though it'll make Windows users even more unhappy, but that's their problem).

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> I'm so divided on Microsoft these days. On the one hand they are doing all the right things in terms of supporting FOSS and making Windows into a truly great OS. But then they pull stuff like this and you remember it's Microsoft.

I think this is just the price we are going to pay for "evergreen" operating systems. As a consumer, you now only buy Windows once. Microsoft has to make up for these lost sales so it makes sense. I don't agree with it, but having to toggle off advertising is not going to keep me from using what I consider to be the best operating system for my needs.

<comment><USER32> >On the one hand they are doing all the right things in terms of supporting FOSS

Could always end up as Embrace, extend, extinguish v2.0 - but here's hoping they get it right this time

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish)

<comment><USER33> The best embrace and extend strategy would be to include lots of FOSS software pre-installed, and have an app store with more open source options. Windows could then be sold as a "batteries included" premium product. The average consumer would have no idea that the software was initially developed by someone else, and why would they even care. It would show a clear advantage over IOs and Android. And it is what a lot of customers actually want.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> I again see a lot of outdated comments about Linux here. Not saying there aren't problems, but as somebody who uses macOS every day, it's nothing I haven't experienced on other OSes as well. Give it a shot yourself and make up your own mind.

If you're thinking about switching, I'd recommend you looking past stock Ubuntu, it is no longer the premiere distro in the community, instead consider:

First off, pick supported hardware - you'll do that for Windows and macOS as well. Use known hardware, like Intel, use DELL XPS or system76, it will save you a lot of frustration.

Ubuntu MATE - [https://ubuntu-mate.org](https://ubuntu-mate.org) \- If you need the Ubuntu ecosystem, UM offers a more polished experience, if not as much eye candy.

Arch Linux - [https://www.archlinux.org](https://www.archlinux.org) \- Before you skip this, no it's not unstable, at all, I clock one of my systems at 3+ years without an issue, the rolling release is great and the AUR makes any software just a command away. No fuss, just works.

The ArchWiki is the best resource on all things Linux, it' great.

Fedora - [https://getfedora.org](https://getfedora.org) \- If you want stock GNOME.

KDE - [https://neon.kde.org](https://neon.kde.org) \- If you want upstream KDE.

</comment><comment><USER35> 'Sync provider notifications' sounds like a useful API for cloud file services such as Dropbox or Drive to be able to communicate with the user. If that's what is actually for, and some other part of ms thought it might be a good place to push OneDrive, it will probably have the unfortunate effect of people turning off an otherwise useful part of windows.

</comment><comment><USER36> Serious question: does MS sell a version of Window 10 outright that doesn't include all of the snooping? I've been a Windows user my whole life but I will NEVER use an OS that collects data on the OS level.

<comment><USER24> The LTSB edition is supposed to be this version, except it still includes the ads for OneDrive, so who knows what they're doing.

<comment><USER37> Consumers can't buy that edition though.

<comment><USER24> Right. For consumers, there is no version of Windows 10 where telemetry can be switched off.

I use the "Shutup10" tool to disable everything can be disabled, but I don't use Windows 10 as my everyday OS.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> > how to turn them off

If you feel the urge to turn it off, switch to GNU/Linux. Turn annoying things off is not a solution, it is an excuse.

<comment><USER39> I think many people would find at least as many annoyances in Linux within the first hours of use. Things like multi display with different dpi isn't great in windows but the story in Linux is worse.

I think the difference is in what people find annoying. I find technical issues such as driver support, font rendering or dpi scaling 10x more annoying than an occasional ad or a fear of snooping.

It's more an individual choice of what kind of annoyance you prefer. If there was an OS with great ivory tower polish and great attitude towards integrity and openness I'd be interested. Right now you just have to choose one or the other.

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> With everyone salivating at shoving ads in peoples faces at every opportunity, not doing so is probably 'leaving money on the table' for MS. It sucks that digital advertising is a moneymaker. IMHO it would be beneficial for the tech world if Google/FB become unprofitable.

</comment><comment><USER41> To be honest, I don't mind a plug or two about relevant Microsoft products within the OS. However, tracking usage and serving customized ads at the OS layer is unpleasant. So, I'm OK with how things are. I'm not disabling anything and giving MS the benefit of doubt that they won't turn my OS into an advertising and tracking channel

</comment><comment><USER42> I ditched File Explorer for Directory Opus a while back, no regrets, especially now that there are ads baked in.

<comment><USER43> Same. I haven't even opened Explorer for several years.

</comment></comment><comment><USER44> There's an opportunity here for a young, ambitious programmer -- create a PowerShell script that automatically goes through the Windows registry, creating/resetting options to disable all advertising (Start menu, File Explorer, OneDrive, Edge's annoying gripes when you launch a competing browser, and others). I suggest this because as time passes the manual approach to disabling the many sources of Windows advertising is becoming somewhat baroque. Such a script would be a great public service.

I won't personally benefit -- I've run Linux exclusively for almost 20 years -- but when I visit Windows in connection with my work, I feel compassion for those who put up with it. I think, "Wait ... people _pay_ to be abused this way?"

<comment><USER45> You can easily find an overwhelming number of projects similar to what you describe on Github and across the web.

The problem is that Microsoft is constantly adding and/or changing the options, settings, registry keys, etc., and they don't exactly publish a nicely compiled, authoritative list of all of them.

The folks writing these scripts (or even just documenting the settings) are working by trial and error, reverse engineering, and so on, to find the relevant knobs to tweak and switches to flip to get rid of these "features".

If they do manage to get lucky and come up with a working solution, it's out- of-date as soon as the next update drops.

Like you, this advertising isn't a problem for me. I was introduced to Linux in 1995 and it's been my primary operating system (along with a few OS X "phases") since then. I have friends and family, however, who can't switch (for various reasons), and so it still annoys me to no end that Microsoft does this kind of stuff.

<comment><USER30> It doesn't annoy me, it makes me laugh. As for friends and family, I've already switched two of them to Mint/KDE and they're both quite happy with it as it suits their limited needs extremely well (web browsing, simple document editing, watching DVDs) and is extremely reliable.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> In browsers, ad blockers are being used more and more commonly for even non- technical folks.

In native apps mobile apps, there are some okay ad-blocking solutions.

But when the ads are baked into the operating system itself... I have a hard time seeing Microsoft or Apple losing the ad blocking battle.

So, instead of getting ads somewhat sandboxed inside a browser, in the future we may be getting ads inside the start menu, inside spotlight, on the toolbar... and instead of semi-directly funding content providers, the ad space will only ever be funneling money to the these same huge companies to spend as they see fit. Bleeech.

<comment><USER47> >I have a hard time seeing Microsoft or Apple losing the ad blocking battle

At the risk of hijacking your comment, what's the present situation with regards to running Linux on Apple hardware?

I quite like my Macbook and am generally tolerant of MacOS (mostly because it's POSIX-y enough to feel familiar), but would definitely consider installing a Linux distro depending on how well it worked.

<comment><USER28> Your only real issue would be with Broadcom drivers(they aren't too bad though). I tried Fedora a while ago and everything worked from my first boot up(including keyboard backlights). Honestly, I'm not too worried about Apple and privacy/advertising for now, after they made photos.app do image processing on decide, and the lack of current iOS exploits in Vault 7.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> Switch to Linux. Its easier than you think.

or Switch to Mac if you can.

</comment><comment><USER49> All the more necessitates the need to create a light-weight VM on top of which 7 + macOS can run. With better hardware we could abstract the hardware underneath the OS for legacy apps & switch to *nix at a click/shortcut.

</comment><comment><USER50> Feeling better every day about ignoring upgrade from 7 > 10 constant spam.

</comment><comment><USER51> Is this on Pro as well? I was tempted to get a dedicated windows laptop but if even Windows 10 Pro contains this nonsense then I may have to reconsider.

Also - I know an OS is different from a webpage, but slamming a company for having "shitty" ads when you've got some obnoxious full-screen ads of your own is pretty funny: [http://imgur.com/a/3eJ4H](http://imgur.com/a/3eJ4H)

</comment><comment><USER52> It was my first thought and after I checked the comments it seems like a general consensus of HN that the best way to turn them off is to switch to some other OS.

<comment><USER53> The problem is that Microsoft doesn't really want you to turn them off, and is now on rolling releases, so there is no longer a one-time fix. You can turn it off now but next week they'll be back because they changed something and the old setting is no longer effective. The only permanent fix is to switch to a different OS.

</comment></comment><comment><USER54> Is it possible to run Windows Server on desktop/laptop in order to avoid all the windows 10 nonsense (cortana, telemetry, ads etc.) ?

<comment><USER45> It should be.

It's been several years ago and I don't keep up-to-date on Windows server tech anymore but, at the time, I knew many people (devs, mostly) who chose to run Windows Server 2008 on their desktop instead of Windows 7.

It was quite easy to do because 7 & 2008 shared so much of the underlying code. I'm not sure if the same is still true (e.g., with 10 and 2012/2016).

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> I guess have to stay with Mac and make it a Linux machine. Glad I saw this, I had a ZenBook in my Amazon 'save for later' cart.

<comment><USER56> You may have done yourself a favor.

I have a Zenbook Pro UX501VW, and getting Linux to run well on it has been unusually challenging. Although as time goes on and newer Linux kernels and nVidia drivers come along, a fresh install should get easier.

<comment><USER55> Wow, thanks. Already had a rough year with Apple. My MBP is about a year old and Apple already had to give me a new display and logic board for it!

I wanted to ditch my iPhone and Macbook this year. I still may after I do some more research on an encrypted Linux setup.

<comment><USER56> You're welcome. Just to be clear: The ZenBook Pro UX510VW _is_ a nice Linux laptop, once properly configured. If you're okay with a investing several hours of setup, it could well be one of your better options.

Here's a quick rundown of the issues I remember encountering, in case it matters. (I was setting it up a few months ago, so I would have been trying to install Ubuntu 16.10 and Mint 18.1.)

(1) I can't remember all the details, but I was unable to install either Ubuntu 16.10 or Linux Mint 18.1 using the traditional BIOS-based installer. I had to use a UEFI-based one instead. (Which wasn't a big deal, but I had no past experience with UEFI, so I had to read up on it first.)

(2) The trackpad jumped around a lot. I found an easy solution at [1]. IIRC, I had the problem initially with the 4.4 kernel that came with the Linux distros mentioned above. The problem might be fixed on its own with more recent kernels.

(3) The laptop has both nVidia and (built-in) Intel graphics chips. The ability to switch between them is pretty seamless, except for the need to log out and back in again in order to go back and forth. However, this only worked well for me when using nVidia's proprietary driver, which in turn prevented me from (easily) using very recent Linux kernels (4.10+). Supposedly there are other ways to get this working (Bumblebee, et al), but making that work required more effort than I wanted to invest.

(4) The laptop has two connectors for external monitors: a USB-C, and HDMI. My monitor accepts DVI and HDMI. IIRC, I tried three ways of connecting the laptop to my monitor (a Dell U2412M):

       (a) HDMI --> HDMI

       (b) HDMI --> (adapter) --> DVI

       (c) USB-C --> (adapter) --> HDMI

Of those three, only (c) worked. Regarding (a) and (b), I can only guess as to where the blame lies.

(5) The laptop has a high-DPI display, which many Linux apps have trouble with [2]. Those problem aren't peculiar to this laptop, but mention the issue because a lower-DPI laptop display wouldn't have this trouble. For one app I use (Intel VTune, which uses Gtk2), the only really workable solution was is to use an external monitor when using that app.

Another consequence of the high-DPI display is that the virtual terminals (e.g., the terminal you get when you hit Ctrl-Alt-F1 ) have _really_ small text. Which can make it a real hassle when you have to fix graphics-driver problems, etc. There may be an easy fix for this; I haven't checked.

(6) When I'm fiddling with graphics drivers, sometimes the laptop's fan runs loud and stays on until the next time I reboot. When I've got the graphics drivers working right, this problem doesn't occur.

[1] [https://github.com/vlasenko/hid-asus- dkms.git](https://github.com/vlasenko/hid-asus-dkms.git)

[2] [http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/linux-hidpi-support-for- gnome-k...](http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/linux-hidpi-support-for-gnome-kde- xfce-cinnamon-and-firefox/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER57> When I get a new computer with Windows preinstalled, the first thing I do is split the hard disk and put a nice Linux distro on. On the odd occasion I need to use Windows it's really no big deal having to navigate the ocean of bloat and whatever else. I don't even mind being tracked on these disparate occasions.

</comment><comment><USER58> This is very disheartening.

As a direct result, I am spending some time tonight researching running Linux on my Suface Book.

I have been impressed with what seems like a new Microsoft. I even made the switch from OSX to a Surface Book as my primary laptop. I used OSX for a decade and ran Linux as my primary OS before that.

<comment><USER54> >As a direct result, I am spending some time tonight researching running Linux on my Suface Book.

Probably not the best hardware to run Linux on. There's an entire subreddit comprised of woes of people trying this [https://www.reddit.com/r/SurfaceLinux/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SurfaceLinux/) . Try something very new like Fedora 25/upcoming 26 or the upcoming Ubuntu 17.04.

<comment><USER59> I don't exactly have the surface book, I have the surface pro 3, but I'm able to dual boot with Xubuntu and Mint without too much trouble. Of course, it wouldn't be Linux if wifi wasn't tricky to set up, but touch works, Bluetooth works, the detachable keyboard also works.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER60> When some articles bashing Edge or some other Windows features appear on Hackernews, there is always someone in the comment stating "I work for Microsoft". "Microsoft employee here"... then protect the product. I am dying to see one that protects this.

</comment><comment><USER61> If you're fed up with Explorer, you might also look into alternative file managers. I'm developing one: [https://fman.io](https://fman.io)

<comment><USER62> Nice, but it'd be better if the homepage mentioned that its not a free product. Also, it's unclear how long the evaluation version lasts.

</comment></comment><comment><USER63> I actually like windows 10, but this is really lame.

* yes, I'm being pedantic, but the ad for one drive is in the file explorer, not the file system. Its doesn't appear in the command line.

<comment><USER30> You're right of course, but to most users, File Explorer is the normal window into the filesystem so to them the two terms are interchangeable in a colloquial sense.

</comment></comment><comment><USER64> Doesn't seem that big a deal, it's an upsell for Microsoft's own file synchronization services, not some third party ad. And you can easily disable it.

<comment><USER65> It's amazing how much this story has blown up, along with the "Google home has ads" story.

In both cases they seem almost insane how many people are up in arms about this. It's them pushing a service of theirs in their os.

Apple does it, Google does it, Ubuntu does it, everyone does it. And it's such a non issue. They are promoting a service that is very tied in to the OS that a lot of people want and don't know exist.

Maybe I'm the weird one, but it just seems like a hit piece when so many websites started reporting on this so hard and it's not even a big deal to me...

<comment><USER66> You think it's not a big deal that you pay microsoft $119 for an OS and they're injecting ads into the local file browser?

How are those being targetted?

Ads on sites and apps -- yeah okay. We got to pay the rent for the content we're viewing..

Ads baked into the OS, especially one you'be paid for, is disturbing.. For me anyway..

I've not used windows in a long time, but I'm kind of dissapointed in the way they've been going. They appeared to be going in a good direction with the new guy after balmer -- for a while I thought they'd buy github.. More OSS, some cool tech -- but they've been slowly getting into the data business and when that happens by degrees it's hard for people to be outraged enough to call them on it.

Don't stand for this shit. Even if we don't, though, it won't make much of a difference since we're the minority who can even understand what's happening...

<comment><USER65> I guess I just don't think of it as an ad.

Just like how Apple pushes their cloud storage, Google pushes drive, even Foss software pushes or bumps other complementary packages.

They are being "targeted" because you are already running the software, so if it's saving your shit to a paid account, just hide it, if it's not then show it. No tracking or nefarious stuff needed.

If they were really truly putting ads in explorer, I'd be right there with everyone shouting about how bad it is, but this isn't doing that, it's telling you they offer cloud storage.

<comment><USER66> Yeah, I'll admit I didn't read the article before commenting..

It's a popup slinging integrated cloud storage? Mef. I'm with ya. Who cares.

<comment><USER65> And I don't blame you for reacting how you did from the headlines.

They are all worded like MS is putting banner ads for "hot singles in your area" in your OS... And this story has been covered by every single major tech news site the same way... It's odd.

<comment><USER66> Maybe the problem is in that that we wouldn't be that suprised if they did, eh?

It's coming, eventually.

<comment><USER67> Can I borrow your crystal ball?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER68> This is not acceptable

</comment><comment><USER69> The very same info was published just a couple of days ago.

</comment><comment><USER70> But then would they be reading any content on the computer itself if the adverts are targeted?

</comment><comment><USER71> Some irony in finding it hard to read the article through all its ad popups on the mobile version

</comment><comment><USER72> A funny game of whack the registry and group policy. Best of all its free.

</comment><comment><USER73> Sucks to be a windows user

</comment><comment><USER74> Switch to Linux. Problem solved ;)

</comment><comment><USER75> Everyone panicking should know that macOS has this too.

<comment><USER76> This is plainly wrong. You are disseminating misinformation.

<comment><USER75> It gives me an annoying 'disk is full' message every day even when I have plenty of it left. And clicking it opens up Storage Management utility which simply upsells me iCloud upgrade as the top 'Recommendation'.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER77> No, we're talking about an OS shipping with _ads_ (that you can turn off) and an OS shipping with a theme that some people don't like (that you can change). One of these is a gross breach of trust on the part of the OS. You know the difference, cut the crap.

<comment><USER78> > _You know the difference, cut the crap._

This kind of incivility isn't allowed here, regardless of how strongly you feel or how wrong the other person is. Same with "Don't be an ass" elsewhere in the thread. Your comments would have been fine with such bits edited out. Please do that in the future.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

We detached this comment from [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13905313](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13905313) and marked it off-topic.

</comment></comment><comment><USER79> Interesting. Chromebooks are cheaper and ChromeOS doesn't shove ads to users' faces. Who's scroogled now?

<comment><USER80> Of course not. It tracks your behavior, and adds the ads later. Why is that better, exactly?

<comment><USER79> Which is so much better, at least to me, to see targeted ads instead of some generic crap subscription for $7.99/mo.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER81> Not sure why this is a big deal. you can turn it off.

HBO subscribers are shown ads (for other HBO shows) at the beginning of the play. I believe that happens with Amazon Prime Videos as well.

Google shows ads for Chrome browser when you google from a different browser.

how is this any different ?

<comment><USER82> Because you pay Microsoft to use Windows, and you pay them a lot. With HBO streaming you can always skip past those ads, and I've never seen them on Prime videos (if you could again you can skip past them). With Google, they're giving you the service for free, so ads are expected.

If I'm going to shell out $120 for a Windows license, I don't want to see goddamn ads built into the fucking operating system.

<comment><USER81> Google started playing ads on their $129 Google Home just the other day ([http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/3/16/14948696/go...](http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/3/16/14948696/google- home-assistant-advertising-beauty-and-the-beast)).

Apple shows ads to older iPhone users ([https://9to5mac.com/2015/12/11/apple- advertising-iphone-6s-t...](https://9to5mac.com/2015/12/11/apple-advertising- iphone-6s-to-older-iphone-owners-through-app-store-popups/)).

how is this any different ? Actually Windows can at least be turned off.

<comment><USER82> Google is a goddamn ad company, I expect that kind of bullshit from them.

Does that Apple ad come up more than once? If it does, yeah that's pretty annoying and disappointing too.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Finland Has Second Thoughts About Giving Free Money to Jobless People - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/24/business/finland-universal-basic-income.html <comment><USER2> Other recent discussions about Finlands basic income:

[https://hn.algolia.com/?query=basic%20income&sort=byDate&pre...](https://hn.algolia.com/?query=basic%20income&sort=byDate&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story)</comment>


Apple patents touchscreen unlock gestures - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15461732

<comment><USER2> IMHO, this is a good idea from Apple. Prior to that, I have to press two buttons to unlock my Sony Ericsson phone. I have to press and hold the Play button on my Blackberry to unlock the key pad.

Though I don't have an iPhone, I would love the ability to unlock with just a swipe instead of figuring out the where the button to unlock the keypad on my phone is in the night

</comment><comment><USER3> Is there no prior art? Nintendo DS was released in 2004; all those PDAs prior to that, and there's no scribble to unlock? Or is the finger the novel aspect?

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> This is getting ridiculous.

<comment><USER4> I agree completely, but it's interesting to remember the entire crowd gasped loudly when Steve did the first swipe-to-unlock during the original intro of the iPhone.

IIRC, everyone was so impressed he locked the phone and did it again.</comment></comment>


Twitter to Launch Ad Platform at SXSW - <AUTHOR> http://gigaom.com/2010/02/23/twitter-to-launch-ad-platform-soon/#comment-1007316

<comment><USER2> Gah! I wouldn't put it past the Twitter team to find an interesting way to deliver ads. BUT, this is really not what I wanted them to make money off of. There is SO much I'd pay Twitter for:

* A way to stagger/schedule delivery across time-zones (my tweet gets delivered at 10AM _your native time zone_ )

* Really cool analytics ("more people reply to you when you talk about Ubuntu")

* Behavior recommendations ("I'd send that cute animal YouTube video at 10AM on a Saturday if i were you.")

* Info about my followers: ("74% of your followers have talked about coffee in the past month.")

* more info about my followers: ("these people just send links most of the time.")

i don't even use Twitter for corporate use, and i want that stuff. I bet folks using it for corporate/org use could think of even better stuff to pay for.

I think there are non-advertising corporate services Twitter could offer. I'm not 100% against advertising, i just feel like there are a lot of us scraping and hacking at this data through various tools, when we'd really rather pay Twitter and not turn into accidental Twitter developers.

Also, some of this stuff is not available over the API, and they could totally exploit that in a cool, fair way without being creepy.

Ah well... I'll hear them out on the ad stuff. I'm not gonna be one of those premature haters proven wrong by history.

I will NOT be the Slashdot ipod naysayer :D

</comment><comment><USER3> >> "Some Twitter users say they will stop using the service if advertising becomes prevalent in their streams (but may be willing to pay a fee to keep it out)"

It's hardly going to be rocket science to filter out adverts. I'd expect most twitter clients will just filter out adverts or at least have an option for the user to click to do it.

<comment><USER4> However, if Twitter offers a rev-share with the 3rd party clients, then they will be less likely to filter them out and also be able to make some money for their work. I run a semi-popular twitter tool site and am hoping for this option.

<comment><USER5> The problem with this line of reasoning is that clients which refuse to whore for twitter will gan users at the expense of other clients. Twitter will also have to offer better ad terms than those clients could get on their own. Twitter controls the interface from their own web client, but has very little leverage over the other clients unless they try to enforce compliance by limiting access and that strategy has a huge risk (mostly downside for Twitter) if they attempt it.

<comment><USER6> I'm pretty sure the invisible hand will cause this to not happen. Anybody who makes an open source twitter client that doesn't suck will always wonder "What would happen if I made a premium version that had ads?"

The net result will be that there will be many free crappy Twitter clients, and a few polished paid/ad sponsored clients.

<comment><USER5> I was not necessarily saying the clients would be open-source or free, just that it was not necessarily in the interests of the client developers to pass along the ads. I use a paid twitter client on my iPhone and if they pass along ads I will bolt for one that does not do so -- I paid the app developer to serve my interests and not the interests of twitter management. For the developers of paid clients I can't think of a single reason they would go along with twitter on this issue and a lot of reasons why they would make more money (by gaining users) if they filtered the ads. In fact, for the iPhone I can see "get rid of these #$&* ads" being one of the most popular in-app upsells for free twitter clients.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> The link points to an entry in the comment section. Is this intentional?

<comment><USER8> Hi - I see you're talking about links, would you like some solid gold cuff- links? Click <here>.

<comment><USER9> Come on. Isn't this guy making a point about what's in the article?

> He added that the company will make it "explicitly clear that a sponsor" > paid for the ad, and make it "relevant and useful, so the user doesn't think > of it as an ad."

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> "People talk about brands and share their feedback", and companies should jump in with… ads? Was somebody complaining about there not being enough ads? Really?

<comment><USER5> The people complaining about the lack of ads were the people who ponied up large wads of money to invest in a company with no proven revenue model. Unfortunately their voices are a little louder within Twitter HQ than the rest of us.

<comment><USER10> of course. but neither spamming people nor letting the likes of ad.ly spam people will solve the revenue problem...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Would be interesting to see if this is ads only on twitter.com or wide-spread like AdSense. Also will it be self service or will it have to go through Twitter approval first?</comment>


WeWork founder threatens to sue after SoftBank scraps rescue deal - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/02/wework-founder-adam-neumann-threatens-to-sue-after-softbank-scraps-rescue-deal <comment><USER2> Aw, shucks. I still haven't gotten around to watching that HBO documentary about Elizabeth Holmes.

At this rate maybe they'll have already produced something about the backstory of Adam Neumann + WeWork (who will at that point probably be in prison?) before I get around to watching the Theranos one.</comment>


Who needs a dongle for mobile payments? - <AUTHOR> http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/03/24/bitcoin-doesnt-need-a-dongle/ <comment><USER2> Oh god not this bitcoin crap again. If it's not simple enough to explain to someone's mom it's not going to flourish as a serious currency. There are so many things lined up against the success of bitcoin I can't believe we're still talking about it. And Forbes of all people.

\- It's a pain in the ass to move money in and out of bitcoin.

\- Constantly fluctuating prices means sellers have to constantly change their prices in bitcoins.

\- Mistrust over bitcoin / mtgox sites like tradehill and the recent hacks.

\- The threat of repeat crashes and rollbacks.

\- A bad reputation due to the bitcoin crash a year ago.

\- The ability to lose all your bitcoins if your computer crashes and you don't have your wallet backed up.

I think people keep talking about it in a desperate attempt to make the value go back up so they can get back the money they lost when the bitcoin bubble popped. Look I lost money in it to, time to move on from this crypto-currency crap and go back to the reality that we're stuck with Paypal, Credit Cards, and Dwolla.

<comment><AUTHOR> > If it's not simple enough to explain to someone's mom it's not going to > flourish as a serious currency.

Do you think that the way the Visa/MC network is implemented is simple enough to explain to someone who does not understand computers? No? Hm, I wonder how people use it...

The point of articles like this is usually to highlight usability improvements for a particular solution, and in this case, to highlight the fact that their is no hardware requirement for bitcoin.

Also, re: the difficulty of acquiring bitcoin: mobile apps like this mean that if one party in a transaction has bitcoin, the other party can go from 0 to 60 on accepting bitcoin in the time it takes to download the app from their app store.

By almost any metric (including value) bitcoin is healthy, and slowly growing: <http://blockchain.info/charts>

And in the interest of full disclosure: yes, I have an investment in bitcoin, because I truly believe in the strength of the concept.

<comment><USER2> Hey mom, here's a credit card. Swipe it on that machine, sign your name, and at the end of every month you'll get a bill of all the money you have to pay back. Pay it off every month and you won't pay interest. Keep the balance and you'll pay an interest on the balance. Easy.

Mom: "What's bitcoin Chris?"

Geek shit. Download the bitcoin desktop or mobile app. Make sure your wallet file is backed up otherwise you can lose all of your money. Using Dwolla transfer money (takes 5-7 days) from your bank account into MtGox and buy bitcoins. The time you buy them determines their value (just like exchanging currency). Then when you want to pay for something put in the person's bitcoin address 1HULMwZEPkjEPeCh43BeKJL1ybLCWrfDpN and send them some bitcoins. The seller might want to wait until the network confirms a transaction. And in the event of a rollback? What then? Oh and you have to keep transferring money from your bank account to dwolla to mtgox to your bitcoin wallet every month if you want to seriously use it like a credit card or check.

All of this to avoid transaction fees and give yourself the feeling of "freedom". Wow.

Many of the bitcoin enthusiasts are what I call "repeaters". They simply repeat how great bitcoin is/can be without ever having actually tried to use it as a real currency. They saw the phrases "transaction free", "p2p", and "no government control" and assumed it was the best thing ever. I was one of those people. I have learned and moved on and hope others do too.

<comment><AUTHOR> > Pay it off every month and you won't pay interest.

You're skipping the part where she needs to have a bank account, check book, and possibly postage stamps in order to pay her credit card bill.

> ... transfer money (takes 5-7 days) from your bank account...

> ... seller might want to wait until the network confirms a transaction...

She is already familiar with financial institutions taking forever to process payments/clear checks. Additionally, she is familiar with checks bouncing, and with cards being declined.

> Then when you want to pay for something put in the person's bitcoin address

Or, as seen in the linked article, she hits 'Send bitcoins', and then waves her phone at the recipients phone.

> I was one of those people.

It's brave of you to admit that you did not research the thing you invested in. Many of us have.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> > Who needs a dongle for mobile payments?

Anyone who actually wants to _do_ mobile payments. The author reveals zero understanding of human behavior, payment processing or how to get business/service traction.

There's a good reason PayPal and Square are now in the best position to actually deliver some meaningful advances in payment processing: they both originally took advantage of human behavior and existing rails.

</comment><comment><USER4> Genuine question: what's on the magstrip of a US credit card that's not printed on its front? Could a camera with good OCR replace the dongle?

<comment><USER3> Not much. Yes, that _could_ replace the dongle (see Jumio, Card.io) but the experience is pretty miserable compared to the swipe.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> In theory, you do not but until Apple perfects the technology, we'll just have to wait.

I won't debate the merits of Bitcoin as a currency replacement as it is not needed, traded nor quoted in the financial markets. And by financial markets, I'm referring to the little club that certain banks and hedge funds have going between themselves, not the service your buddy operates from his apartment.</comment>


The Culture of Shame, in the context of last week's "Tiger Mom" controversy - <AUTHOR> http://kijin.posterous.com/tiger-mom-and-the-culture-of-shame

<comment><USER2> I feel like the author (kijinbear?) focuses a bit too much on demonizing a culture of shame; nothing makes a culture of guilt inherently "better" or "worse" on any kind of absolute scale. Yes, there are high suicide rates in some developed Asian countries like Korea or Japan, but if you look at a list of countries by suicide rates by percentage ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_ra...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate)) only TWO of the top ten countries are those Asian countries with "cultures of shame." I feel like more media attention is directed to those in the East because they're more "exotic." This isn't limited to suicides, by any means, either.

Also, saying that the "culture of shame" is inherently connected to "honor killings" seems more like an ad hominem than anything else: "Look at these barbarians in their shame culture, the shame culture itself must be barbaric!"

There are simply two different kinds of sticks and mothers used both.

I don't agree with the closer, either -- it's too simple. Some people should be ashamed of themselves. The guy who shot Giffords? Shame. Rush Limbaugh and his ching chang chong jokes? Shame.

If you can't control yourself and balloon up to 300 pounds when you're 5'5"? Shame. It's not "okay" to be fat -- you're killing yourself. Sure, you have the freedom, but that doesn't mean you should exercise it to excess.

What does guilt get you? Feelings of remorse after the fact. A culture of guilt, it could be argued, is a culture of remorse and confession in the Judeo-Christian tradition.

My take-away from the article is that it's more focused on using loaded words and stories to beat up on the "dumb," "dehumanizing" culture of shame.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, the purpose of the article is to beat up on the dehumanizing culture of shame. That does not, however, imply that the Judeo-Christian culture of guilt is any better. Most likely, each is better in some areas and worse in other areas. But it's difficult to beat up on two different cultures in one blog post.

> seems more like an ad hominem than anything else: "Look at these barbarians > in their shame culture, the shame culture itself must be barbaric!"

A common feature of a culture of shame is that it takes any criticism of any part to be an ad hominem attack on the whole. There are two different ways to read any criticism of a society: (1) "Look at those barbarians!" (2) "That's wrong. They should fix it." To the extent that a society prefers reading (1), I think that that tendency of that society is inferior to the contrary tendency of another society. To the extent that Western societies such as the United States also display a similar tendency, I think that the United States also has a problem.

This, however, does not imply that one culture as a whole is superior to another -- in fact, this over-generalization is exactly what I'm trying to criticize. All societies have problems of one kind or another. They should fix those problems, or at least try.

> Some people should be ashamed of themselves.

Sure, the 300 pound guy should be ashamed of himself. But that's a matter of conscience. It would be wrong for others to ostracize him, or to expect him to ostracize himself out of shame.

It's one thing for a person to feel guilt and/or shame when he realizes he did something wrong. It's another thing for an entire society to use shame as a means of forcing individuals into compliance even when the behavior in question is not obviously wrong, like playing Villager Number Six.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> A little late to the Amy Chua-bashing party, but it took me a while to get something "meta" written up. The article is less about education and more about cultural backgrounds. Not exactly computer stuff, but I thought some of the people here might enjoy reading this, given the number of thought- provoking articles I've read here.

Let the ruthless criticisms begin...</comment>


New Anti-Aging Clinical Trial Begins. For a $1M, You Can Be a Participant - <AUTHOR> https://www.livescience.com/anti-aging-clinical-trials-launched-in-colombia.html <comment><USER2> Wonderful. Pay $1M, get into trial, and then later find out you were in the control group.</comment>