GitLab sees huge spike in project imports - <AUTHOR> https://monitor.gitlab.net/dashboard/db/github-importer?orgId=1 <comment><USER2> For people wondering what makes GitLab any different, the answer is that GitLab is an open source product at its core. This means that anybody can run their own instance. If the company ends up moving in a direction that the community isn't comfortable with, then it's always possible to fork it.

There's also a proposal [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab- ee/issues/4517](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee/issues/4517) to support federation between GitLab instances. With this approach there wouldn't even be a need for a single central hub. One of the main advantages of Git is that it's a decentralized system, and it's somewhat ironic that GitHub constitutes a single point of failure.

In theory this could work similarly to the way Mastodon works currently. Individuals and organizations could setup GitLab servers that would federate between each other. This could allow searching for repos across the federation, tagging issues across projects on different instances, and potentially fail over if instances mirror content. With this approach you wouldn't be relying on a single provider to host everybody's projects in one place.

<comment><USER3> GitLab is a lot like Firefox, or "Linux on the desktop" in that way. It's what a lot of us _want_ to use, but the less-open but more-polished option has always seemed the more pragmatic choice.

But that can change.

Recently (just as most of the world has apparently moved on from desktop computing, haha) Linux is pretty much fine for the traditional desktop computing. I have current Mac, Windows, and Ubuttnu on my desk, and they are essentially interchangeable except for a few special-case purposes (say, Final Cut video editing, or opening one of those weird wonky Excel sheets that only open on Windows).

Firefox, too, is suddenly performant and I've switched to it as my main browser (for default website use) — something absolutely, utterly unimaginable two years ago.

I hope that GitLab is reaching the same kind of transition point. I've heard horror stories from people that used it 2-3 years ago and are happy to be back on GitHub. But I don't hear much recent grumbling. I moved a toy project to it and it seems nice. As fast as GitHub for me (though I am in Japan, and GitHub is slow in Japan). More features. A nice, sort of adult/professional aesthetic. And — _yay!_ — the open source core it's always had.

I might be wrong, since I haven't used it _for reals_ , but it looks like they might have hit that critical usability threshold?

 _Open source and worse_ isn't a very compelling sales pitch. But an open source tool that is broadly equivalent to a closed source one is generally more attractive, especially when you're talking about services that will be used as part of your core infrastructure.

<comment><USER4> As a faithful Fx user since 1.5, I'm not sure about Firefox analogy.

Its market share was actually much higher in the past and only went down (the introduction of Quantum didn't really help market share wise).

And in term of polishness.. Firefox was MILES ahead of any browser for a very long time. When Chrome launched, it was as horrible as you can think in term of functionality, and Firefox at that time was already as solid as today. But Chrome advances very fast. People often attribute Chrome's success (merely) to Google's push, but Chrome's technological development plays a bigger role IMO.

<comment><USER5> I'd argue Firefox was easily far more fleshed out, but Chrome was simply faster when it first came out, and I made the switch. It turned out all those features didn't mean jack when a faster option was out there. Of course, Chrome has added a lot of features now... and Firefox has gotten vastly faster than it used to be.

When I left Chrome a few years back, the sluggishness of Firefox was quite palpable. I eventually moved to Edge, which, while crashier, overall performed better. But after both the Electrolysis project, and Quantum, Firefox won me back quite solidly.

Long story short: Speed > features when it comes to web browsers.

<comment><USER6> I share the same thought. I use Edge on Windows when it came out simply because it feels so much faster and smoother. However, it has such a high tendency to glitch out and freeze sometimes I wonder how can Microsoft release such a glitchy browser and expect users to use it as their main browser.

<comment><USER7> In 1998 I purchased a Windows computer for the first time in 14 years. My thoughts were "They've had 10 years. Surely they've worked their bugs out". As it turned out, Windows 98 and Internet Explorer 4 actually did have some stability problems, to put it mildly. So I would say that releasing very buggy software without blinking is not a new concept to Microsoft.

<comment><USER8> > "They've had 10 years. Surely they've worked their bugs out".

That's quite a weird thing to think in 1998 with respect to a browser, given that they'd only had any sort of a browser for less than 3 years at that point.

<comment><USER7> The question was posed "I wonder how can Microsoft release such a glitchy browser and expect users to use it as their main browser."

To which I gave a related anecdote and responded

"So I would say that releasing very buggy software without blinking is not a new concept to Microsoft."

Since they released an entire OS that was massively unstable (win98), while claiming their browser was an integral part of it, it doesn't surprise me that they would release a buggy browser at a later date and expect people to use it.

I wasn't only addressing browsers, but rather my perception of the general quality history of Microsoft products at that time. It affected my perception of Internet Explorer, which at that time was not as popular as Netscape Navigator.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> GitLab's recent performance has been abysmal. We recently moved from a self- hosted git solution to GitLab, and while the CI, 'namespacing' and issue tracking are truly great and well thought of, we've had entire days where the team was unable to deploy because the CI workers did not run (even though we host the workers), and therefore the artifacts for deployment were never generated. And nearly every day, pushes take minutes to complete, as opposed to a few seconds with GitHub.

If anything, I hope that Microsoft's acquisiton of GitHub means that GitHub is going to keep growing in features for varied enterprise uses, and that we're going to see even more competition in this area.

<comment><USER10> I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with GitLab.com self-hosted runners and pushes. I can't place the CI runners not working entire days. Pushes to GitLab.com should not take minutes. They do take longer then to GitHub.com and we're working on performance improvements, including deprecating NFS for Gitaly and more performant size checks that just got merged.

<comment><USER11> Sorry to say it like this but you've been working on your performance problems for years now and you're still at the same place. I think your problems run much deeper than that.

<comment><USER12> Their gitlab website is much faster than a year ago. A year ago I moved all my repos from GitHub to gitlab because I had to cut some personal costs. I remember it took a while to load pages when navigating around the site. A week or so ago I logged in for the first time in a Long Long time to setup a project to share with someone to test some ideas. I was surprised that I wasn't waiting for pages to load. It was much faster than it used to be. Still room for improvement but I did notice it was much faster.

So while they still have improvements to make it would be a lie to say they haven't improved at all.

<comment><USER13> Can confirm. The website is much faster and much nicer than it was a year ago.

Also, I don't think GitLab has had a long downtime recently. At least not for any of my projects.

<comment><USER14> > Also, I don't think GitLab has had a long downtime recently.

That mostly depends on whether you're using CI/CD I'd think, that's had some day-long outages/problems lately. Of course, GitHub doesn't even have it's own CI/CD, and GitLab's is amazingly flexible, so it's still the better product. But it'd be nice if it were more stable.

(Note: all this is on GitLab.com. If you self-host, it's presumably much better.)

<comment><USER13> I use GitLab.com's CI/CD extensively. I guess the downtime was when I was asleep or something because I've never seen a day-long outage.

<comment><USER14> I don't encounter all of them myself - it depends on what I'm working on and perhaps also the timezone. That said, April 26th was the most recent occurrence for me where I was _very_ happy I wasn't in the middle of a production deployment that I would have had to roll back. See the status updates on that day on [https://twitter.com/GitLabStatus](https://twitter.com/GitLabStatus)

(I am using the free tier though, so this is more informative than that I'm complaining.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> A lot of this traffic is probably due to the opportunistic advertisement on GitLab's home page for non signed-in users: [https://i.imgur.com/ZNikKcJ.png](https://i.imgur.com/ZNikKcJ.png)

<comment><USER16> The irony of this whole thing being that GitLab is hosted on Azure...

<comment><USER17> I think that the topic 'privacy' isn't the main factor in this case. Most stuff on platforms like GitHub and GitLab are public anyway and shouldn't include any private stuff.

In my case i simply want to move since i really dislike microsoft and their business decisions. I simply don't want to be involved in any "direct" way with this company. Microsoft doesn't have much control over GitLab, just because they use their servers. But Microsoft will have a lot of control over GitHub.

<comment><USER18> That's fine, although IMO anyone that doesn't like Microsoft's decisions over the past few years is living in the past.

Meanwhile Google is GitLab's largest investor, and I've been burned more times to count. Google Wave? Google Wave?

<comment><USER19> One move from Microsoft that really disappointed me recently was to prioritize advertisement over user privacy, for example in Windows 10. I read big chunks of the terms and conditions myself and was horrified.

There are many articles covering this, for instance: [https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/08/windows-10-microsoft-b...](https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/08/windows-10-microsoft- blatantly-disregards-user-choice-and-privacy-deep-dive)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> GitLab is awesome as a broke amateur dev with 0 way to really give back to GitLab the team was cool enough to send me a tshirt and stickers. Its come a long way since then but they seem to be awesome. I dont know if the msft acq is generally even a bad thing, but its great there are options either at GitLab.com or as a self-run service for people to change over to if they want. Congrats!

<comment><USER21> Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you like the swag and enjoy using GitLab.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> I highly recommend people consider self-hosting with phabricator. It's php- based, and if you have a ESXi or proxmox or digital ocean / linode instance, it's a very simple system to install & update, uses all the same LAMP stack everyone is used to, supports ssh/http based push/pull workflows, git,svn,mecurial repos, same type of authentication as github/gitlab/bitbucket, but biggest part of all, its PHP based, written to a very high standard through & through. Has the ability to scale insane amount of workers & cluster configurations. I've never had it once hiccup on me. Yes, if you import a project with hundred thousand+ commits, it will take a while to import, because it builds records for the entire commit history of the repo, it doesn't generate them the moment you view. So this will take time to back populate into the phabricator system, but once you have an imported repo, it has event system that is unlike any you may have ever used. It takes some time to get used to it, but organizations like CircleCI have a tutorial on how to integrate simple CI workflow using Harbomaster. [https://circleci.com/docs/1.0/phabricator/](https://circleci.com/docs/1.0/phabricator/) Also as of php7.x phabricator runs even faster than ever before. It also has it's own Trello Board style system, and it has a much more powerful issue system than gitlab/github. Tickets can have parent/children, and repos never specifically belong to any one project, but rather projects can have many repos. It also has integration with 2FA. It has a Question & Answers section, wiki, pre-code-commit audits. Lot of really big open source communities use it. A fairly large list of big companies using it are shown on: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phabricator](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phabricator)

<comment><USER23> > but biggest part of all, its PHP based, written to a very high standard > through & through

What?! Holy shit. Is that considered a positive thing these days?! I must be quite out of the damn loop.

<comment><USER24> Well, there's nothing wrong with using PHP, and the performance is often better than with other comparable options. Personally I really enjoy PHP 7.

If you're way out of the loop then all you need to know is that PHP 7 is quite awesome.

<comment><USER25> You can write clean code in any language, and I've written some nice PHP, but the language itself has many fundamental design problems. For example, printf shouldn't have side-effects on a datetime object:

[https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=75232](https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=75232)

I run some OSS stuff on PHP, but in containers to keep it all isolated. Although things have gotten better with PHP7, knowing what I know about the language makes me hesitant to use it on any new project for anything except the most trivial systems.

<comment><USER24> That should definetly be fixed, but it's not something people will ever experience unless they try to write broken code by using undocumented features/sideeffects.

What exactly is it you know about the language that makes you hesitant to use it?

<comment><USER25> It's type system and automatic casting/comparing is a nightmare.

Although there are namespaces now, the idea of everything being in the global scope was insane (and still even with namespaces, much is still in the global scope).

mysql_real_escape_string

There are no type-safe comparisons for greater or less then (You have ===, but no <== or >==).

This article: [https://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad- design/](https://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/)

This subreddit: [https://reddit.com/r/lolphp](https://reddit.com/r/lolphp)

The number of bugs that are closed as not-a-bug/wontfix.

I'm not sure how much of this has been fixed, but I've moved on to different languages and career choices and don't really want to look back that way.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> I'd like to point out that GitLab is not independent. They are owned by investors, including Google Ventures. So anyone who thinks they're giving GitHub/MS the finger by migrating their repos, please be ready to move everything again when GitLab disappoints you.

<comment><USER27> Google has done a lot of shit before, but I sure as hell trust them more than Microsoft at the moment when it comes to acquisitions.

<comment><USER28> Care to explain what? Satya Microsoft is day/night different between Ballmer MIcrosoft.

Meanwhile Sundar Pichai Google hasn't been the friendliest.

<comment><USER29> Windows is still doing a lot of bullshit with ads in the start menu and forced updates. A bunch of their open source stuff which has included spyware has been less than upfront about including spyware.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> I'm just wondering what the atmosphere will be like on Gitlab compared to Github.

Github in general to me seems very bubbly and emoji-filled, or to put it into a word - _fun_. For better or worse, it won't be the same. This is not to say that Gitlab would be bad, just that it would be different.

I'm just incredibly curious to see what it ends up looking like.

</comment><comment><USER24> I'm not surprised.

You know that feeling when someone makes a service you really enjoy and you know you can trust? GitLab is definetly one of those services.

Self hosted? Check! Open source? Check! Community Edition that include the features small-medium teams need? Check!

I'm a huge fan of GitLab, and with the current business model and how community editions work I'll definetly continue promoting GitLab every chance I get.

Keep up the good work! :)

</comment><comment><USER31> That's the trend for today. In two weeks the sentiment will be "Oh screw it -- this is more involved than we though... we'll stay on GitHub for now and wait and see."

In short: it's the developers' version of #DeleteFacebook

<comment><USER32> I just assumed devs were testing it out; most devs love testing alternatives and even occasionally retesting them to see if the alternative has caught up to the de facto answer.

<comment><USER33> This seems like the most likely case. Who's really taking the time to move their production repos to GitLab over the weekend based on a Friday rumor?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> Getting a 502. I feel sorry for the Gitlab on-call right now; the rumors came in a day too early to fully enjoy the weekend.

<comment><USER21> Thanks for your concern :) Many from our team are indeed on high alert.

<comment><USER34> Keep up the good work! The next few weeks could get interesting (:

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> Slightly off-topic, but I just love the fact that GitLab has a publicly- accessible Grafana dashboard. Really speaks to the openness of the company.

<comment><USER36> Gitlab is a 100% remote company so everything they do is communicated online and a huge chunk of the time they publish their communications and decision making. You can read all the things the considered while working out if they should remove the CLA for example and see live feeds of what is going on when they are trying to fix an issue.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> I hope our public monitoring will stay up. If not the same graph can be viewed in [https://twitter.com/gitlab/status/1003409836170547200](https://twitter.com/gitlab/status/1003409836170547200)

<comment><USER37> We're currently rescaling the monitoring box to accommodate for all the extra traffic. We ran out of RAM which caused prometheus to crash.

<comment><USER10> GitLabStatus tweet [https://twitter.com/gitlabstatus/status/1003439258814877697](https://twitter.com/gitlabstatus/status/1003439258814877697)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> The "huge spike" is currently at about 3k repos imported. Github had 67 million repos last year.

<comment><USER39> I wonder if there are statistics on how much of that number is forks (which people use like clones) and how much of it totally abandoned or README only or empty repositories. And also _which_ 3k repos are those is _veeery_ important. Just a handful high-profile repos migrating can cause a much bigger wave.

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> Admit it. If Google bought them instead, there'd be far less freakout. Google is pretty scary, but you have to admit that we still distrust MS with our free software even less.

<comment><USER41> No there would be more. Especially from enterprise users. Microsoft understands enterprise. Google doesnt.

<comment><USER42> This is very true. Paid consumers as well... if I have a problem with a Microsoft product I can call an 800 number and talk to a human and generally get a resolution in a matter of hours at the max. Can't really do that with Google.

<comment><USER43> You certainly can get responsive support from Google - if you pay for it. we have a silver support contract with Google for Appengine and get good support when we need it.

I think the "if you pay for it" is the differentiator. And because Google supplies far more free services than Microsoft, they get a lot more complaints about non-existent support.

<comment><USER28> Google is a one shot wonder with search engine and ads as their 90+ revenue engine. Microsoft has been doing Enterprise and Devtools for decades. Google also has a habit of abandoning things without any warning. I can't trust them with my life's worth of code.

<comment><USER43> The "Google abandons everything" meme is getting very tired. Microsoft (and every other tech company) abandon things all the time. For example, Microsoft pulled the plug on an entire eco-system (Windows Phone) after promising developers it would be there for ever (and before that Silverlight). But for some reason Google shuttering a free online service (Reader) causes all the outrage.

Also your comment that Google abandons things without warning is so wide of the mark as to be plain wrong. We've used Appengine for over ten years, and while they do deprecate features, they give you three years warning (and usually a simple migration path to a superior service). They gave over a year's notice that they were shutting down Google Reader.

I would agree with your last point about trusting your code to Google... or anyone else for that matter. As the mass migration from GitHub to GitLab shows, it is easy to keep your code in multiple repositories. To rely on any single provider (even if that provider is yourself) is irresponsible.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> IMHO it's wise to distribute repos to GitLab and also to other hosting solutions beyond just GitHub.

One reason is because acquisitions can sometimes be tumultuous, such as because of employee changes, security changes, alerting changes, etc. A backup git host is prudent.

<comment><USER45> The nature of git itself obviates your case. If Github gets tumultuous, your redundancy is on your local machine and on every machine of your org.

Replication of issues, wiki, etc to other hosting providers just sounds like a PITA.

If the concern is about Microsoft buying Github and someone gets flighty, I think it's a little dramatic.

Microsoft isn't about to rock the boat here, neither is Github.

Expect marginal, fleeting downtime, marginal pricing changes, and generally higher confidence in GH surviving in the long run.

<comment><USER44> > The nature of git itself obviates your case.

My typical case involves more areas.

I value having a way for developers to push/pull changes to a well-known agreed-upon place, as well as to read/post/comment on pull requests, tag/branch/integrate for releases, and always-on always-updating availability.

Orgs that are my clients do not have default employee machines that are automatically ready to push/pull to each other.

This can be because of a range of technical areas e.g. employee machine firewalls, continuous integration server configurations, disk space storage size for large files, etc.

This can be because of a range of process areas e.g. a dev team wants to do a git flow that uses pull requests and code review comments, or a legal team wants an audit trail, or a management group wants a dashboard to do updates, etc.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> It's cool that there are alternatives, but github is still the only one providing a search engine over billions of lines of modern code. It's an irreplaceable software development tool and I hope Microsoft treats it well.

<comment><USER47> There is [https://searchcode.com](https://searchcode.com) which searches over public repos from all the big providers.

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> Migrating repos are straightforward.

[https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/import/github.html](https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/import/github.html)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYOXuOg9tQI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYOXuOg9tQI)

          At its current state, GitHub importer can import:
          the repository description (GitLab 7.7+)
          the Git repository data (GitLab 7.7+)
          the issues (GitLab 7.7+)
          the pull requests (GitLab 8.4+)
          the wiki pages (GitLab 8.4+)
          the milestones (GitLab 8.7+)
          the labels (GitLab 8.7+)
          the release note descriptions (GitLab 8.12+)
          the pull request review comments (GitLab 10.2+)
          the regular issue and pull request comments
          References to pull requests and issues are preserved (GitLab 8.7+)
          Repository public access is retained. If a repository is private in GitHub it will be created as private in GitLab as well.

</comment><comment><USER49> Meanwhile GitLab is crashing... but Bitbucket is up. If you haven't used it in a while, probably worth another look. It's gotten a lot nicer in the last few years, and the code review and CI features are especially good.

<comment><USER36> Source on gitlab crashing? I'm using it right now and it's fine other than the monitoring page getting resized right now due to very unusual load.

<comment><USER50> I'm having pages take 15-20 seconds to load for me, personally.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> I seriously wonder if Fossil's model of keeping all issues in the clone isn't the way to go - set up a public "FossilHub" or some such thing if it doesn't already exist and then you get a local copy of everything, no worries about providers at all.

<comment><USER52> Fossil's model is pretty nice in my book, though since it's a much smaller community compared to other SCM options it has received far less polish overall. So, it has some awesome core ideas, but the implementation needs work to be competitive for most users.

</comment></comment><comment><USER53> No doubt the recent Microsoft takeover news has fueled the spike.

At MS heart is simply money. Nothing else.

When push-comes-to-shove and a decision in the future is between doing the right thing for the open source community, and making an extra buck you can count on MS to go with the latter every time.

</comment><comment><USER31> Had GitHub ever lost data?

[https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theregister.co.uk/AMP/2017/...](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theregister.co.uk/AMP/2017/02/01/gitlab_data_loss/)

<comment><USER54> [https://blog.github.com/2010-11-15-today-s- outage/](https://blog.github.com/2010-11-15-today-s-outage/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> I've been using the keybase.io git repos. It's cool that it adds encryption. Unfortunately there's no pull request system so it falls short on teams that depend on that.

</comment><comment><USER56> Wow! Did not realise people hate/distrust Microsoft so much! Balmer's Microsoft - sure, but I thought that under the current administration, they were seen as a lot more friendly company.

<comment><USER57> As long as I'm still greeted by Candy Crush im my start menu after every forced update, I will not consider their products tools for serious workflow!

<comment><USER58> For those who haven't tried MS Windows recently, it now comes with tons of ads you have to opt out of. The settings to opt out are scattered around and unclear ("pipe up thoughts", "show suggestions", "show me what's new"):

[https://www.howtogeek.com/269331/how-to-disable-all-of- windo...](https://www.howtogeek.com/269331/how-to-disable-all-of- windows-10s-built-in-advertising/)

<comment><USER56> They should be opt-in, not opt out. And opting-in should come with some benefits. For example, you can get Kindle cheaper if you can live with ads. I can, kind of, understand ads if the OS were free. But someone who bought the OS for full price shouldn't have to deal with them.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER59> I recommend gogs for its much smaller footprint.

<comment><USER60> Have you tried Gitea? I found it to be much nicer, and the community around it has been very helpful by comparison.

<comment><USER61> Gitea community is what Gogs community should have been in the first place. Gitea looks nice but there are no public instances. I only wish [https://notabug.org](https://notabug.org) would move to Gitea instead of sticking to Gogs...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER62> Seems like a knee-jerk reaction. In reality it will probably be more than a year before anyone even notices any change to GitHub associated with the acquisition.

</comment><comment><USER63> GitLab is so overloaded right now that the ngnix server is returning 503 Bad Gateway. Do they have the capacity to handle all the projects being moved over from Github?

We've had to do this before. Remember when Sourceforge tried putting adware into open source downloads? Many projects left Sourceforge then. That was tougher. Github to Gitlab is easy.

Microsoft has put adware and spyware in their operating system. We have to expect that they may try something like that with Github. They may say they won't, but that's non-binding and meaningless.

<comment><USER21> Sorry about that. Was the 503 on GitLab.com (main application) or on the link in this discussion (monitor.gitlab.net)? The latter is to a public monitoring dashboard. It has been offline a couple of times today due to influx of traffic. We're closely monitoring it and attempting to keep it online. At the moment, GitLab.com itself has been absorbing the additional load, though. Let us know if you're seeing other issues.

<comment><USER64> I really like how the devs from gitlab are active on the HN thread and replying to people facing problems! Hardly see that with mature products anymore! Great going guys!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER65> I've been using this in a VM since forever: [https://www.turnkeylinux.org/gitlab](https://www.turnkeylinux.org/gitlab)

<comment><USER21> Turnkey is a great way to get GitLab up and running. However, please note that the latest version of Turnkey is based on GitLab version 8.3 ([https://www.turnkeylinux.org/updates/gitlab](https://www.turnkeylinux.org/updates/gitlab)) which is nearly 2.5 years old. Check out [http://about.gitlab.com/downloads](http://about.gitlab.com/downloads) for information on various installation methods which make it easy to install and keep GitLab updated.

</comment></comment><comment><USER66> I'd like to move over to Gitlab, but someone else has been sitting on my nick, "labster", for over two years with an empty group. I'm labster on HN, Github, IRC, forums, etc. but have no way of even contacting the other person to ask for the name. So for now, it looks like I'm stuck on Github.

<comment><USER67> That other person has just as much right to that nick as you do.

<comment><USER66> I'm not debating rights here, I'm saying I don't know how to contact another user with zero activity on the platform.

<comment><USER67> You said they were sitting on 'your' name. It's not yours any more than theirs, and it's not sitting on it unless someone else rightfully owns it.

And why would you ask them for it? It's theirs - they got it first.

<comment><USER66> I remember when I used to go to thefacebook.com. Why did Zuck even ask for facebook.com? They got there first.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER68> ... until the day arrives when a huge company buys out GitLab.

Hosting your precious code is always an issue, and doing it yourself with something like [https://gitea.io/](https://gitea.io/) is cheaper than Github etc. on a small VPS or even a RPI at home.

</comment><comment><USER69> I really like GitLab and are rooting for them, but if my experience the last couple of weeks of exporting/importing projects is any indication, a ton of these imports will fail, or even worse, appear to succeed, but partly fail.

One of the most disheartening things is seeing issues like this: [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab- ce/issues/43270#note_75...](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab- ce/issues/43270#note_75044208)

> Pushing this back to 11.1 since 11.0 is full with major release > requirements.

If there's one way to lose new users, a good way to go about it is have their imports fail. My case was Gitlab -> Gitlab, hopefully their Github -> Gitlab is more resilient.

<comment><USER70> I have always wanted gitlab to become a viable alternative to github, but every time I have used their product I have come away disappointed. Currently trying to import a repo from github to try out their hosting ... 3hrs in and the import is still in progress.

<comment><USER21> Sorry for the delay. Due to the spike in imports things are a bit backed up. Your import should be in the queue and will run eventually. As someone else mentioned it can take a lot of time to import, in general, depending on the number of issues, PRs, etc. Contact @movingtogitlab if you continue to have trouble.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER49> Looks like Gitlab needs statuspage.io

</comment><comment><USER71> Just watch as the crappy small scale hosted stuff moves to Gitlab while MSFT kills 50% of their on prem business migrating over to the new GitHub... MSFT have the channel, the customer base, the Azure Stack story (kinda), it's a no brainer for them.

</comment><comment><USER72> Federated GitLab would be a cool leap for me to trust it, and a strong counter to what I'm about to say...

But man, I wish there was just an accepted, good UX federated system for hosting issues/etc. The solutions exploiting git metadata seem to be the most interesting to me, but then there's an issue of easily getting a single source of truth for a project, etc.

Git blockchain anyone? .. I cringe at the thought, but it sounds like I'm basically describing that lol.

</comment><comment><USER73> Did you guys also mean to make all the other Grafana dashboards public? Just wanted to let you guys know in case there's something sensitive in there.

<comment><USER21> Thanks for your concern. Everything on [https://monitor.gitlab.net](https://monitor.gitlab.net) is for public consumption. We're very transparent :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER74> If you're moving from GitHub to GitLab, create an issue if one doesn't already exist [0] and send me a message (here, @JobV on GitLab.com, Twitter). I will make sure it ends up in the product.

[0]: [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab- ce/issues/new](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/issues/new)

</comment><comment><USER75> So what's the equivalent of github's unlimited users and private repos for a flat price? I don't care about any of the advanced features, I just want remote private repos (browseable from the web for convenience) and I'm willing to pay a bit so I don't have to maintain them. We don't even use the issue tracker, that one we self host.

<comment><USER76> What do you mean? GitHub won't stop existing anytime soon. And assmuming everything will now be worse under MS would be quite hyperbolic.

Anyway, an (even free) alternative is Bitbucket, but there's also a large commercial company behind it - just as Microsoft - just as GitHub.

<comment><USER75> It's not hyperbolic, I've been through Linkedin and Skype...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER77> Wow, GitLab.com offers users insight into and customization of the cookies they set! Checkout `div#CybotCookiebotDialog` on [https://about.gitlab.com/](https://about.gitlab.com/). Never saw a website disclose and enable that before!

Think i'll start git pushing there more and more.

</comment><comment><USER78> I really liked gitlab's forward looking ci/cd and devops: [https://about.gitlab.com/2017/10/04/devops- strategy/](https://about.gitlab.com/2017/10/04/devops-strategy/)

</comment><comment><USER79> My first thought when the MSFT/GitHub news broke was, "This is great news for GitLab."

</comment><comment><USER80> This is great and all, but I suspect in a year most modules, gems, etc will still be hosted on Github. So shake your fist and proclaim your distrust for Microsoft, but most developers will still have Github as a core dependency of their livelihood.

</comment><comment><USER81> If you want to compare the FOSS git hosting solutions, check out this comparison: [https://docs.gitea.io/en- us/comparison/](https://docs.gitea.io/en-us/comparison/)

</comment><comment><USER82> This is analogous to spike in Canadian citizenship requests after DT became president :-)

</comment><comment><USER83> Gitlab is not ready for prime time, we tried setting up 2 weeks ago and were welcomed by several 500 errors. Our team was frustrated by the time we could on-board 4 members and ditched it.

</comment><comment><USER84> I am very happy with the constant innovation that GitLab is offering. They have data centers avross the globe and were the first to run a DC in Asia. FYI GitHub still does not have a DC in Asia and UP/DOWN speeds are terrible. GH refuses to add DC in Asia for unknown reasons despite my many requests. One will think that we are in a cold war or something where most companies support only US and many years later try to expand. Remember this next time when you travel abroad and see how polite and welcoming other nations are. Software service must be the same way. Thank you for being politically correct GitLab and shame on you GitHub for being racist

<comment><USER85> Most of that is a valid complaint. The last sentence is nonsense. Github is not doing this for racial reasons, and I can't even picture how political correctness could possibly be involved for gitlab. (And when political correctness is a motivation to do something, that's a bad thing, because it means it's not a genuine action.)

<comment><USER84> You are right, racial is not what I was trying to say.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER86> \- GitLab is hosted on Azure

\- Google will acquire GitLab within a year

<comment><USER87> GitLab is hosted on K8s, azure probably worked out to be the cheapest solution. If azure of any competitor change their prices, you just move k8s config to another provider withing a few hours. In one company I worked in this process was configured as jenkins job, just click on new job and it was migrating between azure, gcp, aws and ibm.

<comment><USER86> They've been trying to move to Google Cloud for months.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER88> hey... GitLab does not have a "Releases" page like github, for example!!!

but you can vote for it here: [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab- ce/issues/41766](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/issues/41766)

I find this one of the most missing pieces of GitLab

</comment><comment><USER89> I am wondering how many people are willing to rip their octocat stickers off their shiny new mac books ...

</comment><comment><USER90> Their Grafana data source seems to be overloaded/not working. None of the graphs will render.

</comment><comment><USER91> Let us move to git-ssb a truly decentralized git repo on a decentralized network.

</comment><comment><USER92> Did any big FOSS project move to GitLab from GitHub today or is planning to move?

<comment><USER60> GNOME made the move a few days ago.

<comment><USER93> GNOME did not migrate From Github, but from a bunch of other tools.

Also, they are not using the GitLab.com instance, but have set up their own.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER94> Let's wait for the Europe to wake up, the spike may be 2x if this.

</comment><comment><USER95> I am getting a 502.

<comment><USER21> Sorry about that. We had to scale our monitoring dashboard due to increase in traffic.

<comment><USER96> No autoscaling in place? I can help :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> given some high profile imports i wonder if some people got some insider news ahead of the (still seemingly unofficial) announcements.

</comment><comment><USER97> Hi everyone, I am joining GitLab today!

</comment><comment><USER88> hey... GitLab does not have a releases page like GitHub!!! Vote for it here: [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab- ce/issues/41766](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/issues/41766)

</comment><comment><USER98> Getting a 502 currently :(

<comment><USER21> Sorry about that. We had to scale our monitoring dashboard a bit. It's back up at the moment.

</comment></comment><comment><USER99> seems this thread has taken them down with 502 error :(

<comment><USER21> Sorry about that. We had to scale our monitoring dashboard a bit. It's back up at the moment. GitLab.com is separate infrastructure, though, and we hope it remains online despite the added traffic :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER100> does it count scheduled imports or completed ones?

</comment><comment><USER101> The MSFT GitHub transaction needs to be blocked by the FTC.

<comment><USER102> On what grounds?

<comment><USER101> They can now gain access to competitors' code or block open source innovations before they can be fully realized.

<comment><USER102> By that same measure, neither Google nor Microsoft can be allowed to operate cloud businesses, where they run their customers code?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER103> as in being slashdotted

</comment><comment><USER103> as in slashdotted.

</comment><comment><USER104> Next week we might learn that Oracle bought GitLab.

There is no escape with such huge centralization...

<comment><USER105> While I highly doubt that, GitLab is Open Source - Github is not Open Source.

<comment><USER61> It's only partially open source. They let you smell the freedom, but you can't really have it.

<comment><USER105> Complete and utter FUD, this is not the way GitLab operates - more importantly they are from the core an open source and transparent organisation that values both equally.

<comment><USER61> Yeah Yeah FUD you say... the same company that killed Gitorious.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER106> Has there been any word yet from the big tech companies like Google, Facebook, and the others on where they will move to?

I just hope they do not just do it themselves now. It was so nice basically having one site.

The entire software development culture had change and MS just had to try to be part of the fun with being about as tone death as you can be. Or they just do not care.

But either way the idea is a neutral site.

</comment><comment><USER107> Microsoft and I'm out of it.

</comment><comment><USER108> I love GitLab, and I use a private instance at work, but I won't use it to store my public projects for one sole reason: you can't hide your email address shown in commits.

<comment><USER109> You can't hide it on github either. You can just look at the commits directly, and I've used this to contact people in the past due to the "UI" hiding it. It's nothing more than the thinnest bit of obfuscation, and easily overcome.

<comment><USER110> You don't have to use your personal email address in commits if you wish to keep it private on GitHub:

[https://help.github.com/articles/about-commit-email- addresse...](https://help.github.com/articles/about-commit-email-addresses/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER106> Barely even started. Would expect the big guys to move their projects.

Finally a single and neutral site and MS messes it up.

<comment><USER86> How has Microsoft messed it up?

<comment><USER106> By buying GitHub. Now the big tech companies will have to move to something else and we will have fragmentation.

It does look like most will move to GitLab so if it just becomes the new GitHub that would be fine.

Just hope we do not end up with each just hosting their code on their own site. Which this might cause.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER111> because m$ wanna buy it?

<comment><USER112> Could you please not post unsubstantive comments to Hacker News?

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

</comment></comment><comment><USER113> A point that nobody mentioned yet is the evolution of Electron with this purchase. I would not be surprised if they were to put their own trackers in the core lib so that they can access the data that they do not have from all other platforms and products (seeing that many popular apps like Atom Slack etc. are built with it and are not Microsoft products). Maybe this is their next effort towards the personal info/Big brother business model seeing as almost all other efforts failed (no matter how good win10 are they always have the stench from win8/Candy Crash and will always be too slow and insecure for business purposes - no useful data).

Either way, hello Qt5 and Gitlab! By the end of the week I hope that Gitlab will be our new home.

<comment><USER114> While the whole thing doesn't make me happy, this sounds like the worst FUD I read in a long time.

</comment></comment><comment><USER115> >If you want nice things, you have to pay for them.

Why the hell do I have to pay for something that has already been offered for free? That's called bait and switch. And maybe this is a stretch, but I think that should not even be legal. In my mind it it is a form of false advertising. If you don't think it will sustain itself as a free service in the future then don't offer it as a free service in the first place.</comment>


Ask HN: What editor do you use? - <AUTHOR>

More specifically then the general title, what editor (or IDE) do you use, and for what languages. Why do you use this editor, and what features does it give?
I am most interested in Python, Ruby, and Javascript.
I currently use Aptana for javascript editing. It gives me a nice editor (I like eclipse editor), a 1/2 useful outline, sometimes actually does auto-completion of variables instead of me having to type it all out, A pretty decent code formatter, and a tad bit of syntax errors as you type. However I am not a big fan of it, it has a bunch of features but its more of a jack of all trades master of none editor. Most features are incomplete at best. <comment><USER2> Eclipse, and I mostly hack in Python and Javascript. Why, why you say?

I guess just three main reasons:

1) I am a very visual person, and like to see the project hierarchy. I like to click the file I want, instead of just using my keyboard. I know this flies in the face of the purist Emacs and Vim users, but I'm only about half hacker, and I like my clickey click.

2) I like the tabs at the top (as opposed to buffers that you can't see). I like to see the group of files I'm currently working with.

3) I like the Aptana plug-in, which does nice mark-up of HTML, Javascript, etc. It makes Eclipse a fairly nice web coding editor. I also like Pydev. So Eclipse supports all my favorite languages.

I do wish Eclipse were faster and stripped of many of its components. Also, I do use the command line for things like SVN and running commands in the terminal like "python manage.py runserver." But I like Eclipse as an editor.

Maybe it's just because Eclipse is what I'm used to. I suspect that is the root of all preference.

<comment><USER3> Emacs can be very visual if you use ECB (check <http://emacsonrails.drozdov.net> screencast for an example):

a) A directory tree b) a list of source files in the current directory c) a list of functions/classes/methods/… in the current file, (ECB uses the Semantic Bovinator, or Imenu, or etags, for getting this list so all languages supported by any of these tools are automatically supported by ECB too) d) a history of recently visited files, e) the Speedbar (directory hierarchy) and f) output from compilation (the "compilation" window) and other modes like help, grep etc. or whatever a user defines to be displayed in this window.

<comment><USER2> You always get this answer from emacs users. "Emacs can do such and such."

But the reason Eclipse probably hooked me is it does these things out of the box. There's just such a huge barrier to entry to using emacs, that being the burden of configuring it to your liking and/or learning the arcane keyboard shortcuts.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I use Vim & jEdit.

I use Vim for editing stuff from a shell.. mostly small to medium size editing tasks. It's really good once you've got it set up properly. You can get all the usual stuff you get in IDE's such as syntax highlighting, split windows and tabs, autocompletion, source control integration.. the mouse works great too. Actually learning how to use Vim effectively takes some practise, but it's totally worth it.

For more heavyweight editing/programming tasks I use jEdit.. it's a really good editor for nearly any language. You'll probably want to get some plugins for it though, the vanilla install is a bit basic.

</comment><comment><USER5> vim or emacs: pick one and get back to work. Editing text is a solved problem.

<comment><USER6> I'm learning Python in emacs after learning Matlab with its default editor and environment. I miss the visual file trees and the easy visual debugging, though I haven't completely gotten used to the emacs way of doing things yet. It does strike me that learning the emacs way is harder.

<comment><USER7> Debugging is overrated, at least for Python. Have a clean codebase with a good test coverage and you will never miss the visual debugger.

<comment><USER6> Doesn't emacs really make more sense for a low-level language, though? A programmable editor seems like it would be more helpful with more code and more code repetition. Maybe it's because I'm starting with Matlab/Ruby/Python, but I really don't get why emacs and vim are so awesome.

I'm following the advice of the sages and learning emacs anyways. But mostly it's because I figure the sages are smarter than I am than actually seeing the need for it.

Also, debuggers are REALLY useful when you're learning a language for the first time. I shudder to think what my last machine learning project would have been like without a debugger. Maybe when I'm an ace, I can "just write good code and tests". But I'm not an ace, I'm a newb. I like seeing what my variables are doing and trying out commands that I think might do what I want them to do.

<comment><USER5> _Also, debuggers are REALLY useful when you're learning a language for the first time._

Yes, they are. I thought we were talking about text editors?

<comment><USER6> Don't you edit text when you are new to a language?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Currently, TextMate. Started learning Emacs, though, and hope to get proficient in that soon (via O'Reilly's "Learning GNU Emacs"). TextMate's showing its age, for me at least, and I'm hopeful that Emacs will be more powerful and faster.

<comment><USER9> I went from Emacs to Textmate and back again: Textmate showed much promise as a modern programmable editor, but as it turns out I work several times faster in Emacs. Time is money and all that.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> emacs <http://github.com/ki/my-dot-emacs/tree/master/dot-emacs.txt>

vim when necessary

<comment><USER11> A thousand thank yous for having a .emacs file that has been commented so well and is so easily understandable.

<comment><USER10> You are most welcome and thanks a lot. Your comment made me so happy :-)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> vim and gedit. gedit has come a long way with its plugins, definitely worth checking out.

scribes is another one worth looking, but lack of tab support keeps me with gedit.

<comment><USER13> Wow, I never expected as many people would be open minded towards gedit. Sometimes in Unix, it's hard to convince anyone that something with easier, more discoverable customization is better than vim.

Wish it had a tabbed terminal, and code folding though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Emacs

I do PHP professionally, mainly Ruby with my own projects, but I dabble with lots of languages.

It's very powerful and any feature it doesn't have, I can add myself. Yesterday I was prototyping something for work, I had my main php file open along with the js and css files all in their own split window. More than one co worker stopped in to see what editor I was using after noticing my screen.

The learning curve is very high, but print out a cheat sheet and keep it near you, in less than a week I had the basic functions memorized and now rarely need to look up a command (generally an obscure one). Once you get the hang of it though, every other editor feels crippled, that's my experience at least.

</comment><comment><USER15> I live and die via Coda (www.panic.com) Best editor I could ask for.

<comment><USER16> I found that Coda was incredibly useful for PHP and flat HTML/CSS and hardly useful for anything else.

<comment><USER17> It's much better for PHP and HTML/CSS. It's geared towards that. For other languages it's just as powerful, but it doesn't have the same one-window-does- everything aspect to it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> You've listed scripting languages there which arguably means you don't necessarily _need_ an IDE. By this I mean, there is no code-compile-test cycle and you don't need an IDE to take care of your builds.

Possibly the most efficient way of coding would be in a shell with your choice of Vim or Emacs. You have quick access to your choice of VCS, you can tail log files, you can use your language's REPL and you can grep for things across your whole project. As well you will have minimised your usage of the mouse which is a great speed and flow inhibitor.

Take the time to learn either of the 2 great editors. The investment will most certainly pay off.

</comment><comment><USER19> Which editor we use doesn't matter, pick an editor an know it _well_

Btw, emacs has an excellent mode for editing python and I couldn't live without its auto-indent feature

</comment><comment><USER20> vim, for everything

ed, when i really have to

</comment><comment><USER21> Notepad++ on Windows, gedit on Linux

<comment><USER22> Notepad++ is relatively customizable once you get the hang of it.

This editor handles HTML and JS in PHP files very well. However, I've yet to find an editor for Win XP that does a good job with ruby syntax highlighting in erb files.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> Emacs here, just watch some of the screencasts that are floating about if you want to see what it can do.

</comment><comment><USER24> Komodo (www.activestate.com)

<comment><AUTHOR> It looks promising, I am going to try it out, see what features it has. Can you give any more description on what you like about it and what language you use it for?

EDIT: Maybe I am missing something, but this seems like a regular text editor with no nifty features like code outline. What does it actually give you over something like vim?

<comment><USER25> There is a paid Komodo IDE - I believe the free version is only a basic text editor.

I use Komodo for Python, but find it hit and miss. Still looking for something better.

<comment><USER24> There is a limit to what any editor can give you for any language that's not amenable to static analysis.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> I use Geany which is very nice indeed. I use it for PHP and javascript. When I switched to Linux, I spent a long time looking for a replacement for my beloved PSPad and this was it. It has solid support for gvfs, good syntax highlighting, and a host of other features.

</comment><comment><USER27> I recently switched to emacs from textmate/vim. I still use vim for small configuration files.

There is a recent peepcode on emacs and rails. <http://peepcode.com>

</comment><comment><USER28> Vim, TextMate, and XCode.

XCode for Objective-C/Cocoa, I've tried using TextMate but XCode is just so damn easy to use for Cocoa projects.

Vim for lightweight stuff, like piping diffs into it for color or quick edits on servers.

TextMate for web development with Python/HTML/CSS/JS.

During college, I read PragProg and thought I should just stick to Vim for EVERYTHING, including command line key bindings. That changed real quick after doing work outside of classes.

</comment><comment><USER29> As I'm only half a hacker and hate learning arbitrary stuff, I use nano.

I think the next leap forward with text-editors is when we get some sort of interface with our eyes, or more importantly, our brain and the computer. There was an link on HN a few weeks or so ago showing they could distinguish letters from brain patterns. Surely this will make learning those vim/emacs commands obsolete. I will just bide my time.

</comment><comment><USER30> Notepad2 (<http://www.flos-freeware.ch/notepad2.html>) and Visual Studio .NET 2008

</comment><comment><USER31> Textmate is absolutely essential for Ruby on Rails / Ruby development. What I realize now is that it's a scriptable text editor that integrates super well with everything you want to do with Rails. Basically anything you'd like to do with Rails, someone's written a bundle for it.

This is particularly useful for testing using RSpec/Cucumber or your favorite testing libs.

</comment><comment><USER32> Smultron (on OS X) for GUI editing, where I typically want a bunch of files open and their names visible at all times, and vim on the command line. On the Mac, one nice thing is that most editors and (S)FTP clients support the ODB Editor Suite, which means that such an editor and transfer agent can work together seamlessly as though they're part of an IDE.

</comment><comment><USER33> I use gedit with a lot of plugins for all of my programming. I mainly programm in Python. Only exception is when I play around with lisp, then I use Able. Other interesting editors for linux that I know are Scribes (very well planed and writen, with a unique concept, but only one developer, so development is slow) and Komodo-Edit.

</comment><comment><USER34> On my machine I use Komodo Edit; when I'm editing a file server-side I usually use nano. _ducks_

<comment><USER35> _when I'm editing a file server-side I usually use nano._

I did that yesterday -- my sysadmin flipped.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> Eclipse for PHP projects.

PSPad (a very nice and free editor) for Python PHP and general quick and dirty editing.

FlashDevelop for ActionScript. This last one was truly a happy find, with all the VS look and feel and a very comprehensive toolset, again for free.

</comment><comment><USER37> e text editor on XP. For a decent command line, I use Powershell inside of Console2 and iPython.

If someone wanted to make a lot of money, they'd create a better wrapper for cmd.exe or Powershell.

</comment><comment><USER38> Kate and Geany, depending on whether I want the better editor, or need an IDE, and Quanta for HTML. Kate is very configurable and (like any KDE app) can open files over sftp which can be very handy.

</comment><comment><USER39> I am suprised no one mentioned IPython? (<http://ipython.scipy.org/moin/>) IPython + vim is a nice combo for Python programming.

</comment><comment><USER40> Currently using TextMate and enjoying it. Used many editors, but the ones I used the most were vi, vim, jEdit and emacs (ordered chronologically)

</comment><comment><USER41> Coda now, used to use textmate but found textwrangler had better grep features and memory management when opening large files

</comment><comment><USER42> I use Intype for all of them - used to use Notepad++.

</comment><comment><USER43> subethaedit <http://www.codingmonkeys.de/subethaedit/>

</comment><comment><USER44> gvim

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I tried the Netbeans Ruby editor... and wow the difference between that and anything for eclipse is major. Code completion is useful. It can figure out what class I am referring to pretty well. Ctrl+click works nicely to see the definition of a method (no matter where it is declared, and it finds them quite well, shows list of choices if it is unclear).

Definitely worth a try for ruby.

</comment><comment><USER45> An IDE is not an editor. Don't be confused.</comment>


AngelList joins the list of sexism in Silicon Valley - <AUTHOR> https://businessmonkeynews.com/en/angellist-se-suma-a-la-lista-del-sexismo-de-silicon-valley/ <comment><USER2> This reads like it was written in another language and translated to English using Google Translate (possibly with an intermediate step at another language). It's nearly incomprehensible.

<comment><USER3> Agree. This looks like autotranslated blogspam of [https://hipertextual.com/2017/07/angellist- sexismo](https://hipertextual.com/2017/07/angellist-sexismo)

For an original article about the subject, you can read [https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/17/angellist-lee- jacobs/](https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/17/angellist-lee-jacobs/)

<comment><USER2> I did want to read this, so thank you for the links!</comment></comment></comment>


Experimental WebGL interface in Google Maps - <AUTHOR> http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2011/10/google-maps-in-webgl.html

<comment><USER2> Very smooth in Windows XP with Chrome 14. If you don't see the option to enable it, make sure that you have English set as your language, or append hl=en to the URL.

The best about this is that they aren't using images anymore in the map view, but vectors, just like in Android. Everything is faster, less data is transferred, and not everything is reloaded when you zoom in or out. This is what WebGL is about, real accelerated and smooth apps, not spinning metalic teapots :)

Now if Chrome didn't get image corruption half of the times that I open a WebGL page...

</comment><comment><USER3> Don't work on my Linux machine (Arch Linux), but actually it fits their description, I have Mesa 7.11 driver and they say I would need "earlier than 7.9" [0].

Funny that on the same place they recommend to "[k]eep your graphics card driver and OS system up to date", which is exactly the problem - I'm "too" up to date...

[0] [http://www.google.com/support/chrome/bin/answer.py?answer=12...](http://www.google.com/support/chrome/bin/answer.py?answer=1220892)

</comment><comment><USER4> It works well, and I'm glad to see Google pushing towards HTML5 (and related standards) and away from Flash.

</comment><comment><USER5> Does not work on Linux with Chromium Slow with Firefox (also on Linux)

I've sandy bridge intel graphics.

sad state of the Linux webgl drivers :(

Runs fine on Windows (Nvidia 560GTX) on both Firefox and Chrome, but both are also not perfectly smooth, compared to the classic view.

</comment><comment><USER6> MapGL doesn't seem to want to activate on my 2011 MacBook Air in Chrome beta (15) - it just says my computer doesn't meet system requirements.

I don't see the option in Safari (with WebGL enabled) or Firefox, either.

</comment><comment><USER7> Doesn't work on my early 2011 macbook pro 13" running lion. Anyone running one of these can get it to work?

</comment><comment><USER8> Works fine on my Ubuntu 10.04 Linux machine with Chrome 15.0.874.83 beta and Nvidia driver 195.36.24.

</comment><comment><USER9> Works great with Chrome 14 on Lion. The rotatable 45 degree satellite views are wicked cool.

</comment><comment><USER10> OT but hey Google - bring back realestate to google maps!

All these new features are nice but without new, local data it's not useful.

</comment><comment><USER11> Looks really cool. Needs some tweaking in areas with a lot of high rises (like Manhattan). The perspective + fading + faux shadows of all the high buildings can make making out the streets difficult in some places. But shiny.

</comment><comment><USER12> Works great on my system, Terrorists wet dream, tho.</comment>


Please don't pay to use a pay toilet - <AUTHOR> https://stallman.org/pay-toilets.html <comment><USER2> It's too late for this comment to be seen and make a difference, it will sink to the bottom of the thread without a trace, but in case anyone is interested in reading more HN comments about this, it was submitted and discussed just 2 days ago:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13322288](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13322288) (56 comments)

</comment><comment><USER3> I'm not sure if this was put here to ridicule Stallman or as a coda to his comments about Skype but this is a simple well-explained argument that I happen to agree with.

If local government can't use local taxes to provide shared toilet facilities to stop us all having to defecate in the streets then what are they (and taxes) for?

Community toilets (and streets clear of shit & piss) are, in my opinion, a fundamental and should be the basis of all civilised society. The fact that so many modern cities seem to have forgotten this is beyond me.

<comment><USER4> > _If local government can 't use local taxes to provide shared toilet > facilities to stop us all having to defecate in the streets then what are > they (and taxes) for?_

If local government can't use local taxes to provide free food to everyone to stop us all having to starve in the streets then what are they (and taxes) for?

Is access to toilets a more fundamental human right than access to food?

 _Edit:_ Stallman explicitly demands that public toilets should be free to _everyone_ , independent of their financial situation. Using his logic, we should boycot food until food is available to everyone free of charge. _Of course_ I'm not arguing against feeding the needy, or against social nets in general.

<comment><USER5> >Stallman explicitly demands that public toilets should be free to everyone, independent of their financial situation. Using his logic, we should boycot food until food is available to everyone free of charge. Of course I'm not arguing against feeding the needy, or against social nets in general.

I actually don't see how you could unironically argue against providing essential foods (think bread, beans and chicken/fish[whichever is local]) free of charge, basic income style.

If that's affordable, we should totally do it. Of course, affordability is a key part of the equation. I don't know if a basic sustenance program is affordable. I do know that basic sanitation is /totally/ affordable.

Also, I feel compelled to point out that there's a public health interest in making sure everyone has a sanitary place to defecate. Societies that failed to provide this were regularly ravaged by cholera.

<comment><USER6> How do you know sanitation's affordable? How much do you have to pay workers to clean those public toilets?(anecdotally, these toilets have always been dirtier than the private ones I've used) Will those cleaners be unionized or require full-time benefits? How do you analyze toilet usage and concentrate cleaning resources on those toilets which are used more? How much funding do you dedicate to these analysts? How do you budget for future expenditures? Can you tell me how it is more efficient do this with a bureaucracy rather than a paid system?

As for the public health interest - how many homeless/low income/cheap people will be forced to shit in the streets as a result of pay toilets? Will it realistically lead to cholera?

It's completely reasonable to use pay toilets in some locales and public toilets in others. Believing in a definitive answer without analysis is not going to lead to good policy.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I still am not a fan of Stallman and still have to agree. Stallman sadly is right about most of the things he says. He has rather extremist stances sometimes, but that doesn't mean he is wrong.

Maybe I'll stop using some of those services. I actually have a resolution going on about not buying books off Amazon anymore. I just came across too many authors and bookshop saying that Amazon has the practice of saying "either give us specical/exclusive rights or we won't sell your book". I used to like Amazon, and heck, I also was understanding about them trying to avoid taxes, because most companies start doing that at some point, but extorting authors of books is way too horrible.

Also here there are counter examples. There is many games you can get from the developers, from Steam and from GoG for example, so why can't Amazon not be horrible?

Sorry, got a bit distracted about the Amazon link also being up there.

Calls for boycotting companies somehow aren't as popular anymore, despite having the internet and topics like the NDAP going viral. I think most people agree that in our society money has a lot of power and phrases like "vote with your money" have a point. Yet looking at the 60s till 80s those things were way more popular, which is a bit odd.

Be it Skype, Uber or Amazon. You don't have to hate them, but calling out bad practices and acting upon that information with not using their services seems to be a reasonable way to have a positive impact.

In other words it seems odd that certain minor design improvements can justify paying a lot more for a product or service, while that barely seems to be true for the ethics of a product - outside of the food sector that is.

<comment><USER8> > Stallman sadly is right about most of the things he says. He has rather > extremist stances sometimes, but that doesn't mean he is wrong.

From what I've seen, his extreme positions are often from him looking further than a lot of other people.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Is using the toilet a human right then, and if so, whose duty is it to volunteer to clean it up? Why are paid toilets nastier than paid food? Why not give poor people money instead of spending time (and in this case, a certain effort you can't even brag about in polite society) on yet another boycott? Is there any social institution that is not boycotted by Stallman?

<comment><USER10> > "[...] whose duty is it to volunteer to clean it up?"

While this isn't applicable in all areas, a rule of thumb could be "those who making money with the people which have to use toilets".

Anecdotal example: I'm living in an amusement district of a big German City. There are very few public toilets and most of the few are paid ones. So every weekend the whole district is smelling like a big bowl of piss, except in winter when the frozen pee of multiple weekends accumulate until there is the big pee-melt.

Why not making all those bars, clubs and liqor stores pay for the maintanance of free public toilets?

<comment> semi-extrinsic Or better yet, why not enact laws that say bars, clubs, gas stations, liquor stores, restaurants and cafés have to have free toilets? Give them some compensation, e.g. government pays for putting in or upgrading the bathroom and the restaurant just has to keep it clean and open. It solves most of the problems with public toilets out on the street, such as them being nasty and occupied by homeless people, because the owner of the establishment wants to keep it nice and clean.

<comment><USER11> Don't they have to?

In the US, there's a law that says all places that serve food and aren't on a public street (e.g. a food truck), have to have a public toilet.

At least in my jurisdiction, gas station don't have public toilets because they want to---they have it because since they serve reheated hot dogs, they are required to have a toilet.

<comment><USER12> Same thing in Russia. It doesn't always work well, but in most cases it does. As for mass public events - usually there are free street portable toilets provided as well. In most office buildings there are free toilets as well, and in all shopping malls, of course. Cinemas, theatres, medical institutions... All of those are publicly accessible without any questions asked.

To be honest, I can name only 2 places where the toilets are paid in Russia - train and some bus stations and there are paid toilets near metro stations in Moscow.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Of course, there is a story:

[https://psmag.com/why-don-t-we-have-pay-toilets-in- america-2...](https://psmag.com/why-don-t-we-have-pay-toilets-in- america-26efede62d6b) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_to_End_Pay_Toilets_i...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_to_End_Pay_Toilets_in_America)

</comment><comment><USER14> > Pay toilets are nasty, and ought to be illegal. Those of us who are not poor > can afford the price, if we accept the practice; poor people can't.

Can't this be applied to basically anything? Food, water, electricity, pubic transport. Let's refuse to pay for all of these otherwise the poor can't afford it. Is this a parody webpage?

<comment><USER15> You don't think society has a duty to feed people who would otherwise starve to death? Who do you think should pay to clean up the rotting corpse they leave behind?

<comment><USER14> Why would you pay for other people's food? Are you kidding? Cleaning up a corpse is much cheaper than feeding a poor person her whole life.

<comment><USER15> Because I'd rather live in a world where a few pennies out of my pocket results in everyone living a decent life, sans street corpses. Seriously, even if you're an extreme individualist, is there NO price you would pay to not have dead bodies strewn about the streets?

<comment><USER14> So you moved the goalposts. You were talking about the economic thing to do. I responded accordingly. Now you want to talk about ethics and morality.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I understand why toilets aren't free. Free public toilets in urban areas are almost invariably dens of filth and crime. Unfortunately, pay toilets are invariably filthy themselves.

It boggles the mind that rich "western" countries aren't able to keep public infrastructre clean and free.

<comment><USER15> In my experience, it's a function of the environment in which the toilet lies. A toilet in a quiet underground car park is almost guaranteed to be more disgusting than a toilet in a well-lit, busy concourse. I've used pay toilets that are pretty disgusting, too; never thought to ask for a refund, though...

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Where I live, we don't have pay toilets, but when I was on vacation last I thought they were great. I was happy to pay a little bit for a clean bathroom instead of having to go at a coffee shop or restaurant.

Stallman has a point, but it's easily addressable. The government could give the indigent vouchers to use the pay toilets. I'd even be happy to pay more to use the bathrooms to subsidize such a program.

<comment><USER18> >The government could give the indigent vouchers to use the pay toilets.

Wouldn't work in Europe - Art. 18 TFEU.

<comment><USER19> Hence BREXIT, and why all EU countries should consider exiting from the EU!

<comment><USER20> Do you _know_ what Article 18 of TFEU says?

> Within the scope of application of the Treaties, and without prejudice to > any special provisions contained therein, any discrimination on grounds of > nationality shall be prohibited.

> The European Parliament and the Council, acting in accordance with the > ordinary legislative procedure, may adopt rules designed to prohibit such > discrimination.

[http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:120...](http://eur- lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:12008E018)

<comment><USER21> Except that "any discrimination on grounds of nationality" is clearly NOT prohibited, the obvious example being Scottish University Tuition Fees.

These are free for Scots, free for other residents of the EU, reduced rate (not Free) for Welsh and Northern Irish, and a special higher rate is applied solely to students from England, i.e. those with English nationality.

What was that about discrimination on grounds of nationality again?

Strictly, yes, I know, it's discrimination on nation of residence rather than individual nationality. Nice trick. Guess where the English tend to be resident? Yup. England.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> I think the German idea of paying businesses to allow the public to use their toilets, is brilliant. It's cheaper for the government than running their own toilets.

</comment><comment><USER23> I don't want to be "that guy" but, here in Italy, I have heard of several accounts of Stallmans visiting local Linux User Groups (full of his "fans"), and he would have them pay for his dinner or he wouldn't go.

Although I understand his point:

\- I find pay toilets cleaner and I am not sure it is worth delving into changing the national policy of better maintained free clean toilets with all the problem we want to see addressed first;

\- I am starting to think his addressing to "proprietary" stuff is more related to "avoid paying" than defending what is free.

<comment><USER24> > I don't want to be "that guy" but, here in Italy, I have heard of several > accounts of Stallmans visiting local Linux User Groups (full of his "fans"), > and he would have them pay for his dinner or he wouldn't go.

So just like any touring speaker?

> \- I am starting to think his addressing to "proprietary" stuff is more > related to "avoid paying" than defending what is free.

This view is false. You should read more of what he has written, especially in regard to 'free' services that are only financially free.

</comment></comment><comment> tuna-piano I wonder how he feels about using a toilet in a restaurant/cafe that is "For customers only". Should he stop using any bathroom in these commercial places?

Many things are necessary in life. Most of those things cost money. If you think poor people should be able to afford them too, then give them money (direct or through government) and let them spend it how they want. I suspect they may find pay toilets convenient as well.

<comment><AUTHOR> I guess this boils down to whether you consider access to toilets a public good or a private good.

Everyone* has a toilet at home, but its it the job of the government to supply sanitation in all public spaces?

<comment><USER25> I'm ok with government run/subsidized pay toilets, if no private company is willing to provide service in an area.

But if something is free, usually the service quality is also such, and many people, who would not use it if it was not free are not taking care and ruining these services.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Relevant: [https://www.fastcoexist.com/3065278/german-cities-are- solvin...](https://www.fastcoexist.com/3065278/german-cities-are-solving-the- age-old-public-toilet-problem)

</comment><comment><USER27> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_toilet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_toilet)

</comment><comment><USER28> Some years ago the first time I saw a pay toilet I thought the same way, but later on one day I was stomach sick, I appreciated so much that just paying 0.5€ it was ensuring me a perfectly clean and hygienical toilet to spend a sick moment of my life, I'm not against public toilets, I'm neither against pay ones.

</comment><comment><USER29> The problem with stallmanism is that you eventually run out of other people's toilets.

</comment><comment><USER30> I don't understand americans on this point... I thought us Ëürøpæans were supposed to be the socialist ones?

I for one LOVE the City Toilets I find all around in Berlin. Thank you for providing this service, I'm happy to pay for it.

</comment><comment><USER31> Unfortunately in Belgium you have to pay to use the toilets, even if there is a cover charge.

Richard Stallman is probably here because of the FOSS and hence the post.

</comment><comment><USER32> Why would you go to a pay toilet when you can just grab a beer and use that place's toilet?

</comment><comment><USER33> Going to great lengths to not use a pay toilet is OK if the only person who suffers is yourself. Once you have a family your priorities change.

Many of Stallman's advice works well when you are a bachelor... But once you have family to think about, the arguments are less persuasive.

</comment><comment><USER34> Taking this view to its logical conclusion will be that all private businesses should be illegal. Such experiments were tried in large parts of the world in the 20th century. We all know how they turned out.

</comment><comment><USER35> So we can't have political thread anymore but three stallman op-ed on the same day is okay ?

Is today's date going to be the annual stallman-right-or-wrong-you-discuss day?

</comment><comment><USER36> Click on his home page and there's a 17 items in a list at the top of " _What 's bad about:_"

</comment><comment><USER37> Where in the fuck are there pay toilets?

Is this a foreign thing?

<comment><USER38> Random examples from recent experience:

Some exist in Finland (at least in Helsinki).

Also saw one recently in a train station in Belgium, and IIRC a train station in the Netherlands.

Also in the North of Argentina near some bus station, where you would pay directly to someone apparently responsible for cleaning/maintaining them.

<comment><USER39> In Germany many public restrooms have an attendant who you pay and can complain to if the toilet is dirty or lacking toilet paper.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> That's one crappy post. I can't believe Stallman is taking a dump on pay toilets. He should really piss off.

</comment><comment><USER41> hxsatvv: Reasons Not to Pay Attention to Anything Richard Stallman Says

</comment><comment><USER42> So you can pay for toilets, but you choose to use free toilets. You're making these free toilets worse by your usage and creating incentive for them to become paid, only making things worse for those who cannot pay.

<comment><USER25> Basically this was the mechanism the USA won the cold war against the USSR. Now almost all former socialist states are capitalist, because they went bankrupt.

<comment><USER24> That makes no sense.

You are saying that the USSR went bankrupt because people were trying to use things in it for free?

Surely it has a lot more to do with the political oppression and top down control of the economy.

<comment><USER25> People in this topic are arguing for free toilets paid by the government. Now what is that if not a top down control of economy?

<comment><USER24> They aren't preventing private toilets - free or otherwise - being created. Pretty simple.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Apple Accepts Updated MoltenVK-Using App/Game for Vulkan API on iOS - <AUTHOR> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple-Lets-In-Updated-MVK-App <comment><AUTHOR> This comes after a rejection 3 weeks ago citing use of the Vulkan-on-Metal API.[1]

1: [https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple- Re...](https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple-Rejects-iOS- MoltenVK)</comment>


Minds.com – Open Source and Community Owned Social Media - <AUTHOR> https://www.minds.com/ <comment><AUTHOR> Note - I just came across this today when looking into open source and decentralized social media platforms. This one seems far more impressive than Diaspora* , and the monetization angle may help it with growth to have a chance of fighting Facebook and its network effects. But I am still trying to clarify what "Community Owned" means - the link just goes to a crowdfunding page. Though they do say "Anyone can set up a node and we will have more federation services for cross-communication soon enough." in the comments.</comment>


In This Is All: Memory, Meaning, and the Self - <AUTHOR> https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/memory/all <comment><USER2> It seems odd to not even mention God in this article. I get that theism isn't fashionable, but it seems strange to write him out of the history altogether, and to mention Alistair Macintyre's thoughts without connecting them to his Catholic thinking.

I also think it's ridiculous to neglect God in a discussion of the quest for meaning, because I think it's obvious he's the only possible source of objective meaning and everything else is "let's make something up and muddle along". But it is not odd for writers to ignore that.

<comment><USER3> "I think it's obvious he's the only possible source of objective meaning"

Can you explain? It's far from obvious to me. Quite the contrary in fact.

<comment><USER2> It's a corollary of the question of moral realism. "What is my purpose?" is another way of asking "what should I do?" or "what kind of person is it good for me to be?" Under naturalism, you run straight into the impassable barrier of the is-ought problem.

With God, we can consider the possibility that he has goals for us.

OK, there could be alternatives in between theism and naturalism, but they make even less sense to me and I don't know anyone who takes them seriously.</comment></comment></comment>


Logs a detailed history of executed terminal commands for easier access on Unix - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/SkrewEverything/Command-Cache/blob/master/README.md <comment><USER2> This looks like a neat idea but the use case seems very specific. I have always found history (which I always alias to "hh") to be very useful, combined with !<number> to quickly execute previous commands. The README doesn't do enough to explain exactly how to use it, besides 3 screenshots.</comment>


Microsoft licenses patents "covering use of Linux-based servers in datacenters" - <AUTHOR> http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-inks-patent-deal-with-service-provider-using-linux-servers-7000001498/

<comment><USER2> Based on the data Microsoft is willing to publish, one can only assume that they are using the threat of a lawsuit to intimidate other companies into signing lopsided deals like this. That is, of course, illegal under US anti- racketeering and anti-trust laws as well as immoral and unethical. Without knowing the details of these agreements, of course, no one can say one way or the other, but given Microsoft's history of illegal anti-competitive practices they are inviting these sorts of speculation when they sign these deals. I doubt AMDocs is profiting from the deal and I doubt they would have bothered if not for fear of being crushed under the weight of Microsoft's legal department.</comment>


Aichallenge.org Ants Winner Announced - <AUTHOR> http://ants.aichallenge.org/

<comment><AUTHOR> Congratulations to Xathis. Thanks to all the participants for coming out. It's great to see the effort put into it put to use.

A couple of quick stats, over the course of the open submission period there were 37378 submissions from 8023 people. 7897 had working submissions going into the finals. 31532 submissions compiled and passed the basic tests to count as a successful submission. During the open competition 274043 games were played and 72287 during the finals.

<comment><USER2> janzer himself requires a lot of praise for running the competition. Him and the other admins kept things running smoothly, often at time with what appeared to be chewing gum and bailing wire. Without their dedication, persistence and hardwork, the rest of us would have missed out on a lot of fun.</comment></comment>


Outplanr: Turn to-dos into work days - <AUTHOR> https://www.outplanr.com/ <comment><USER2> This seems like a great system to enable fine-grained micromanagement at a glance. It's got a weird mix of 'overbearing manager' and 'Orwellian employment coverage' that seems to primarily support over-involvement in your employees' minute-to-minute tasks. And that isn't even considering how "your outplanr task chart" factors into those yearly performance reviews. ;)

This would be a great way to manage a household chore-chart, though...</comment>


Air pollution shines from this alarming map - <AUTHOR> https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/25/18240346/nitrogen-dioxide-air-pollution-map-sentinel-satellite-descartes-labs <comment><USER2> This is a beautiful map. You can easily see shipping lanes. Some are glaringly obvious, like South China Sea to Europe through the Malacca Straight and Suez. Others are faint but clearly there, like San Francisco to Hawaii. And it's interesting that the Atlantic shipping between Europe and America looks so diffuse.</comment>


Why Scientists Disagree on Global Warming - <AUTHOR> http://www.whyscientistsdisagreeaboutglobalwarming.com/ <comment><USER2> Arguing with unreasonable, irrational people fixated on percentages is bikeshedding, a red herring talking-point and itself unreasonable. Breaking through the cognitive dissonance essentially requires taking them to Greenland and showing them how fast the ice is retreating.

</comment><comment><USER3> As I have said before, if the goal is to convince people who are skeptical of any aspects of the anthropogenic global warming narrative, sites like this are not effective.

</comment><comment><USER4> .

<comment><USER5> > I would also like to point out that the vast majority of money in academia, > of course, is pro anthropogenic global warming.

So? The vast majority of money in academia is also pro quantum theory, and pro relativity theory, and pro evolution. What's your point?

> What the press implies - anthropogenic runaway global warming - aside from > not even being consistent - is absolutely not a 97% opinion amongst serious > mathematicians.

It surprises me that you're picking out mathematicians here. I would expect most scientists working on climate issues to be physicists, geologists, or meteorologists.

<comment><USER6> Hey punk. This is where the real money is: timestamp 55:26 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IbyiOoVgnQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IbyiOoVgnQ) Cheers

<comment><USER2> Yup. _Merchants of Doubt (2014)_ is another great documentary to peel back the veil of PR propaganda consultants whom peddle sentiment influence (ie MSM, social media, etc.) to the highest bidder.

<comment><USER4> Please show me where to get some of that money then. Since obviously you're implying I'm already seeing it. If you're a university student, however, it's usually not too hard to go to the university sponsorships and funding structures and see that the university is indeed funded with pro-global- warming funding.

The situation in practice is, of course, reversed. I know plenty of people who get money because they're climate "activists" (not researchers, that's not to be used anymore as a name).

Because if I want money from the UN, state or federal government to research climate change, I know where to go. Seriously, some research budgets are 50% climate change and funding such gems as "the social impact of climate change on Chicago black persons". I mean, I get it, not all research must be useful. I have no problem with that. But note that while I can't find numbers all of this research spending seems to be going everywhere ... except to climate modeling. It doesn't go to exact sciences much at all.

I wonder how that video of yours was funded. Let's see:

[http://www.carbonneutraluniversity.org/-notable- supporters.h...](http://www.carbonneutraluniversity.org/-notable- supporters.html)

Heh. Okay. That's of course, very very different from ExxonMobil sponsorship ... very different ... And I'm sure you're about to claim that if this group was found to not help climate activism that funding wouldn't change ...</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Will the economic impact of Covid be like 9/11, 08', or something else? - <AUTHOR> Curious to hear how badly HN thinks coronavirus will impact the American economy. Is this just an economic shock? Is there anything systemic that is wrong? <comment><USER2> It will be worse than 9/11 but better than 2008. 9/11 was relatively short but this crisis will last months so the impact will be greater.

In 2008 the banking system was on the verge of falling apart something that would have been devastating to the economy. The Federal Government will do all it can to make sure that there will be money to borrow. As long as the banking system survives and people can borrow to start or continue businesses after it's over, we will be fine over the next few years.

As a result of the economic slow down central banks all over the world will be forced to increase the money supply everywhere. Will this lead to inflation? That is the big question. When the central banks had to do it in 2008 it did not. But no one knows what will happen now.

We did see a lot of money being put into hard assets such as real estate but that was after a huge collapse in real estate values.

Given the social safety net in the US and the ability to borrow money by business, we will not see a depression but the recession that's coming will hurt.</comment>