Essential Phone, available now - <AUTHOR> https://www.essential.com/blog/essential-phone-available-now <comment><USER2> Since no one else has, I'll take the piss out of this "hollier than thou" bullshit.

> Devices are your personal property. We won't force you to have anything you > don't want.

Devices are your personal property. The SoC is still a proprietary trade secret, the baseband is still spying on you for the NSA, the GPU is still a closed blob piece of shit. No mainline driver support, bootloader is closed source, firmware is closed source. We own this phone, you don't.

> We will always play well with others. Closed ecosystems are divisive and > outdated.

....

> Devices shouldn't become outdated every year. They should evolve with you.

Devices become outdated because shitty vendors refuse to open source and mainline drivers for their components.

> Technology should assist you so that you can get on with enjoying life.

Technology should be trustable, and a device where you cannot tell if or when the microphone and/or camera are recording and being remotely accessed is anything but.

Not wanting to single Essential out too much here - every vendor goes on and on about how great this phone is for you, while holding as much of a vice grip over the operation of the device as possible to make sure you need to buy another one as soon as possible through planned obsolescence. It is just the stick up the ass language announcements like these use is really infuriating when the people making them know full well how much they are screwing you over.

The first actually open platform phone is the one that will have longevity. The rest are snake oil about how good they will take of you because you can't take care of yourself with your own software that you can trust.

<comment><USER3> > The first actually open platform phone is the one that will have longevity

FairPhone is trying to do that, in software, hardware and way beyond: [https://shop.fairphone.com/en/](https://shop.fairphone.com/en/)

<comment><USER4> A colleague of mine showed me her FairPhone. She then proceeded to disassemble it, right in front of my eyes. She's a biologist and told me that she broke the screen during fieldwork. Just ordered a new screen on the FairPhone site and replaced it herself. Amazing tech.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> As someone who worked in a large OEM company releasing tons of smartphones, I'm actually impressed it only took 100 people to getting this out. I presume there was an incredible amount of sleepless nights, as this is no easy task.

To be fair though, Sprint is one of the easier carriers to work with after T-Mobile. I can't imagine them releasing a phone on AT&T or Verizon, as their process is grueling. I guess since they're selling an unlockcked version of their phone, it doesn't really matter to power users. However, most sales for smartphones are from contracts sold directly from carriers so it'll be interesting to see how they'll do in the market with their current strategy (similar to One Plus One).

Props to them though. It's not just about carrier certification. Releasing a smartphone is a long complex process. Some engineers at Sprint were briefly talking about how great the phone was, so I have high hopes.

<comment><USER6> Pretty sure they used Sharp as a partner, so it isn't like they started from scratch. That guess is based on this Sharp phone looking mighty familiar ([http://www.gsmarena.com/sharp_aquos_s2_taken_apart_a_bezelle...](http://www.gsmarena.com/sharp_aquos_s2_taken_apart_a_bezelless_phone_thats_put_together_well- news-26760.php)) and Rubin having worked with Sharp extensively during the Danger days. (most of the Sidekicks were made by Sharp)

I'm kinda sort interested in this device, but honestly I'm in the sit and wait given that Sharp isn't exactly a name brand anymore.

<comment><USER7> Sharp for some reason refuses to sell their smartphones outside of Japan. When I lived there I had a Sharp phone - and it was amazing. Smoothest non-stock android experience I've had. Recently they were selling [did this finally happen?] off their phone business to foxconn because it was falling behind.

Man, if you actually tried to sell your phones, Sharp, they might have sold? Funny concept.

If this phone is indeed a Sharp creation, I'm all over it.

<comment><USER8> > Man, if you actually tried to sell your phones, Sharp, they might have sold? > Funny concept.

Smartphones are a brutal business to be in, especially in North America, where Apple and Samsung have basically locked up the high end of the market and everyone else is fighting for the scraps (and usually losing tons of money in the process). Probably Sharp just realized there was really no way to break in, especially considering they'd have to start from scratch with channels like carrier partnerships, retail presence, and advertising.

<comment><USER9> > considering they'd have to start from scratch with channels like carrier > partnerships, retail presence, and advertising

OnePlus has none of these and seems very successful.

<comment><USER10> Meh, I bought my first OnePlus phone a few months ago and while the phone itself is great, I've been thoroughly unimpressed with their support and unavailability of most accessories, both from OnePlus and 3rd parties. It's a huge turn off and I won't buy another one.

<comment><USER11> What kind of support do you need for a smartphone? I've literally never even thought "maybe I should contact support" for a phone problem.

<comment><USER12> Tons of things, like "my phone is two weeks old and the battery life has halved"

<comment><USER13> I'd complain about the battery in that case, not support.

<comment><USER10> What? If you can't get support to fix the battery for you, that's also a problem with support too.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Give me software updates for 7+ years, then we'll talk about buying your $700 phone. Lasting hardware means nothing without lasting software.

In the meanwhile, I'll keep buying $120 phones (Moto G4 with Amazon Ads FTW) and keeping them for ~2 years until they break or software updates stop. Even though as a Catholic (Laudato Si, Rerum Novarum) it kills me to waste all those materials every couple of years and be part of the environmental degradation of our planet.

<comment><USER15> > _Lasting hardware means nothing without lasting software._

The Nexus 6P is a perfect example of this:

[https://m.theregister.co.uk/2017/05/01/google_eol_for_nexus_...](https://m.theregister.co.uk/2017/05/01/google_eol_for_nexus_phones/)

I've had mine a year and a half, and it doesn't even feel close to struggling with things. Performance is great.

Yet, it's going to be artificially deprived of the latest Android releases starting one month from now, and won't even receive security updates after September 2018. It's absurd.

<comment><USER16> Lineage OS works very well with the 6P, incidentally.

<comment><USER17> Lineage OS isn't a substitute for vendor support. Lineage is dependent on vendors for updated drivers and firmware blobs. So if there's a bug in the firmware, like the recent BCM43xx vulnerability, you are still SOL if the particular chip in your device is no longer supported by the vendor.

<comment><USER18> True, but I could imagine a situation where Lineage could work arond a bug in firmware and protect from it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> You want fixable and well designed, long software updates, and a good price?

Buy an (old) iPhone.

I've got a 5S -- still perfectly fast for what I use it for (email, youtube, brokerage account, general internet, some small games), and is getting OS updates and security patches until IOS11. It's $120 on eBay; a new screen can be had for $13, a new battery for $11. it's solidly designed and there's a gigantic field of accessories and apps.

Maybe titanium and no bezels are worth a price premium, but there's no way it's worth a 5x increase in price.

<comment><USER20> Plus you have a great piece of industrial design.

I love the look of the 5S/SE. It looks premium, it feels nice in your hand, it's solid, and those chamfered edges are so nice.

It's a shame they went from that to the iPhone 6 design and stuck with it all this time. It might make bigger phones easier to hold but man it just doesn't look as nice IMO. It looks like a generic round phone. Nothing stands out about it at all.

<comment><USER21> Having sold hundreds of iPhone 5s's when I was selling B2B, I have to say I was fairly unimpressed. Not great battery life over time, if an employee left with iCloud enabled it was a whole affair with Apple to get them to reset the device and allow it to be reused, and the brick style design is not very comfortable overall.

My favorite is the curved back, as is on most Motorola's and some LGs. Personally, I stick with cheap LG phones ($100 or so) that are rootable/rommable. If the phone gets damaged or I want a newer phone, no skin off my back, biggest concern is just moving Signal Private Messenger over to the new phone I get :P

<comment><USER22> If iCloud was your problem, it's because you weren't using an MDM.

That's an OS-independent problem ;)

<comment><USER23> We use MDM (Air-Watch) and it's still a problem. If the employee uses their personal iCloud account you cannot remove it. You can unlock the device remotely via MDM but you have to have their password for their iCloud account to remove the iCloud account.

You have to contact Apple and provide proof of purchase for the device to have them remove the iCloud account.

<comment><USER22> I'm aware of what happens when Activation Lock happens when personal iCloud accounts are allowed to be installed.

The issue is allowing that to happen in the first place, instead of locking it centrally. That's either a limitation in your MDM's capabilities, or its setup. ;-)

[https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT202804](https://support.apple.com/en- gb/HT202804)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> git-pull I admire the gumption of making a new phone.

But controlled obsolescence kills me. The real feature that improves in phones the past few years for me is the software and apps, _not the hardware_.

My wishlist:

\- Give me a lighter, snappier OS. Not something clunkier and slower and uses more ram, gpu/cpu (aka battery life).

\- Actually support updates to the things for longer than 2-3 years.

\- (Not related to this phone) Use stock android, unless you're _removing_ bloat. Why? Because inevitably there's going to be apps. What I want is a nice flat surface that includes wifi, bluetooth, and nice API's and permissions for those apps to plug into.

\- The biggest feature you can give me on a phone? Battery life, Replaceable battery, Data/Cell reception, Speaker/Microphone quality.

\- SIM card that's easy to get out.

\- Actually, Dual SIM's.

\- Support for carriers globally.

\- And physical keyboards. Something for SSH'ing with.

<comment><USER24> > \- And physical keyboards. Something for SSH'ing with.

There is no market for this product. Nobody wants it except a tiny fraction of the market who work in IT.

<comment><USER25> Not really. Manufacturers just stopped making phones with PKB because since Apple wasn't making them, they weren't worth it. It hard to estimate the demand for PKB phones when no one is making them. I'd buy one in heartbeat if one launched with low-mid end specs and less than $400.

We've constantly chosen form over functionality. Larger sized phones, fragile build materials(glass over plastic), lesser battery just so the phone can be thinner. The keyboard was given up to make room for a bigger screen and thinner body, and now writing anything more a few sentences on a phone is a pain in the ass.

Atleast in the era of dumb phones, for all the weird shit (Nokia's taco phone) that came out that time, at least the phones were distinct, you could tell them apart just by looking at them. Now they are all the same generic rectangular glass slabs that cater's to single demographic who want large screens for media consumption. What if you are not in that demographic? Well, tough luck.

I know am in the minority and it's not really Apple's fault that everyone decided to ape them, but a part of me wishes we hadn't given up the variety just to pander to the largest common denominator, even a little variation among phones would be a welcome change.

<comment><USER26> What is the draw of a tiny physical keyboard? I can type much faster on an iPhone than with any similarly-sized physical keyboard. The only advantage I can think of is the ability to touch type without paying attention to the screen as closely, but for a phone that doesn't seem like a very big deal.

<comment><USER27> I could type faster (and without looking) on the old Nokia style keypads than I can on a touchscreen.

<comment><USER28> So could I. No looking at the keyboard and almost never making a typo. I had to backspace and correct 3 typos writing this on my iPhone with autocorrect fixing several more.

<comment><USER29> Maybe this will change with tactile screens. Touch screen keyboards are the result of a severe underestimation of the importance of the human element in hardware design.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> > _Every year, like clockwork, manufacturers make "design tweaks" and launch > new features and products that work well if you choose to stay in their > ecosystem. You buy their phone, TV, speaker, and fridge with the promise of > simplicity, but more and more often, this is a way to force loyalty._

Good thing they're not doing that!

> _We also plan to release new wireless accessories (like our snap-on 360º > Camera) every few months. That schedule ensures that the latest technology > will always be in the palm of your hand without having to replace your > phone. These accessories will also work with other products like Essential > Home._

Spoke too soon.

</comment><comment><USER31> > Your phone is your personal property. It's a public expression of who you > are and what you stand for.

No, it's really not. It's literally just a tool I use for communication.

<comment><USER32> > No, it's really not. It's literally just a tool I use for communication.

I'm curious, wouldn't that imply you're not the demographic they're seeking? So are you basically saying, "I'm not in their demographic"? Or is there another point to your comment that I'm missing. I ask because often I see people get pissy about statements like this, almost as if they think the web page was curated for them.

I could make a webpage targeted at guitarists with something like "Your guitar is something you cherish", and clearly that statement isn't true for someone who neither owns a guitar nor plays. So what purpose is a statement like this?

I don't make snarky comments at bra commercials on TV about how I don't have breasts and therefor am not concerned with support. Do you _(assuming you 're male, of course haha)_?

<comment><USER31> I don't like the marketing appeal to some sort of deep emotional instinct that the advertisement is making. I think it's ridiculous that consumer goods represent who I am and what I might stand for. That's silliness and hyperbole, right? To say that a person's phone choice defines them in any sort of meaningful way is extremely silly to me. This feels similar to something like:

"This product stands for freedom! You stand for freedom don't you?"

The guitar analogy is not accurate - your statement about cherishing the guitar is evaluated internally and is true or false. It's not the same as saying the guitar publicly and externally (and deliberately!) defines you and what you stand for.

"There goes lolsal - now there's a guy that really stands for non-branded personal compute devices!" Give me a break.

<comment><USER33> > To say that a person's phone choice defines them in any sort of meaningful > way is extremely silly to me.

For someone buying a mainstream product like a Samsung or Apple phone, I'd agree that it doesn't mean very much. To someone buying a niche product like this though, it definitely says something about the person's values.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> Pardon the tangent, but here's a quote from their website:

> There's a reason titanium is used to build rockets and replace bones. Unlike > aluminum, which is what most phones are made of, titanium doesn't scratch, > dent, or bend.

The reason why titanium is used to replace bones is not its strength (though it certainly doesn't hurt). It's because titanium is the most biocompatible metal and has a capacity for osseointegration. Meaning the bone around it will fuse with the titanium.

<comment><USER35> When mac books needed some pep in marketing, as sales floundered, Jobs also diverged into Titanium in lieu of faster uPs. After that wore off he went to the unwieldy 17" Mac Books.

Often times Titanium is just a marketing ploy. Like titanium cards. Titanium bracelets. Etc.

<comment><USER36> And Apple moved to using aluminum from titanium in its PowerBooks (the design would later be the basis of the original MacBook Pro), in part, because the softness of of the metal, led to warps and bends in those first-gen TiBook models. I don't know how Essential is using titanium, but history certainly has examples of gadgets that suffered from using that metal over others.

<comment><USER37> ...and if you believe that, I've got a bridge for sale. Titanium is many things but soft it is not. It can also be alloyed with many other metals for specific purposes. One thing it definitely is though is _expensive_ which is most likely the reason for Apple to look for alternatives. That is actually _is_ possible to use titanium to create form-stable notebooks can be seen by e.g. the many Thinkpads which sport titanium lids and frames. I have yet to see one of these warped or bent. This is partly due to the boxy - and with that, strong - form factor but the material plays a big role as well.

<comment><USER22> Thinkpads generally use _magnesium_ frames, not titanium.

[https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-T400-T500-and- newer-T/...](https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-T400-T500-and-newer-T/What- happened-to-the-Titanium-in-ThinkPad-T-Series-Bring-it-back/td-p/3690)

<comment><USER38> For anyone wanting to brighten their day with some thinkpads, it unfortunately looks like large chunks of magnesium are not flammable [1].

[1] [http://www.fishercast.com/downloads/FisherCast_Magnesium_Whi...](http://www.fishercast.com/downloads/FisherCast_Magnesium_White_Paper.pdf)

<comment><USER35> No, Mg is used for alloyed aircraft wheels, so I'm sure its not like Mn.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> I found it off-putting that on the home page, the 2nd section about the phone was an interview with the founder with exposition on his intentions.

Seems unnecessarily narcissistic--tell me about the phone and it's features first and sell me on your product.

<comment><USER40> I got the same impression. It's kinda lame. I mean, phone looks good, real, good product, but to me it seems it's biggest selling point is the man himself behind it.

<comment><USER41> Given that he founded Android, I think that's the point.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> At this point, the only thing I care about is whether or not they plan on releasing quality software updates in a timely manner for a reasonable amount of time...

<comment><USER43> I can see (though don't entirely agree) why companies feel some pain, when the customer paid for the phone, but the public's expectation is free updates for "life" (however you define that). I wonder if having a subscription where they reduce the cost of the phone for the general population, and let others sign up for a paid subscription model for updates, backed up by some kind of SLA type agreement would work. I definitely would prefer a model where instead of finding other ways to screw you (selling data) they get paid by me and serve my needs.

<comment><USER44> It's moot.

Apple offers ~3 years of software updates included in the price of the phone.

Right now, Android companies COMPLETELY FAIL to match Apple's update value.

The idea that Android companies should switch to a paid update subscription model, while iDevices retain free updates for most of device life, would be a hilariously incompetent decision.

"They're better than us, we know it, so why not subscribe to us and pay us monthly to help us catch up to what they were doing a decade ago?"

<comment><USER45> What confuses is me is what kind of work needs to go in to updating android on different phones? If Android is compatible with the architecture of the phone shouldn't the software update from Google work?

<comment><USER46> Unfortunately there is no real standard hardware architecture for Android devices. Some pieces are the same, but every device has different incompatible components. So the device vendors have to re-apply a unique set of patches every time.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> Why would I spend $700+ on a phone with a dubious fate when I can spend $230 on a Moto G5 Plus and have Lineage OS running on it in no time, for a long time?

<comment><USER48> Premium materials and true craftsmanship shouldn't just be for the few, but for everyone (who has $700+ to spend on a phone).

<comment><USER46> It looks basically the same as every other smartphone and is mass-produced with no "craftsmanship" involved. The concept of "premium" materials for what's essentially a disposable device just seems ridiculous.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER49> They talk repeatedly about how their phone is so much better while still being affordable. Well, 700$ for a phone isn't affordable, especially in an age where a solid phone, excellent for 95% of your daily tasks, sets you back no more than 150$.

I don't get it, what's the draw here? Is it the accessories? A couple other phones already did that shtick, and the result was the same: release 3 or 4 gimmicky products and forget about it. They talk about maintainability, but there is no replaceable battery, no expandable storage... I don't get it, what's the draw?

</comment><comment><USER50> At this price, why buy this instead of a Pixel?

To be honest I'm quite happy with my crap Moto G5 Plus phone. The screen and camera aren't that great, but hey at this price I won't complain.

<comment><USER51> Well it has a headphone jack

EDIT: Er, did you mean pixel 1 or 2?

EDIT: Oh my god, it doesn't have a headphone jack! lol look at me eat my own words holy shit

</comment></comment><comment><USER52> Maybe I'm just buying into the marketing hype, but this actually seems pretty cool and I'm curious what the OS feels like.

<comment><USER53> Isn't the OS just vanilla Android?

<comment><USER54> Apparently so, according to the specs page. I thought the whole thing with this company was that they're developing a competing OS not based on Android?

<comment><USER55> No, that wasn't their goal, it was stated to be Android from the beginning.

<comment><USER54> What do they need Andy for, then? The press I've seen with him over the past year seemed to be pushing the narrative that he started this company to 'correct the mistakes' of Android...decided that's too much work?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER56> > And while costs for such finely crafted materials are usually reserved for > high-priced, out-of-reach goods, we've tried to make our phone as affordable > as possible.

$699 may be as affordable as possible, but that doesn't mean it's not a a high-priced, out-of-reach good.

</comment><comment><USER57> Freedom from everything except needing a Google account to turn the damn thing on.

<comment><USER58> Well, if you stay outside of the Google Play Store, you don't really need a Google account to get it working. Bought a new one this month, and I was able to do basic functions + receive a security update before I got home and typed in the password from my password manager.

</comment></comment><comment><USER59> at a $700 price point for two years of os updates and three years of security updates, it seems runner-up to iphones with four year (or more) timelines on os updates, maybe longer for security updates, for a comparable price point.

<comment><USER60> Generally after 2 years the updates seem to make the Apple product less useable, rather than more.

<comment><USER61> This used to be the case, but I'd argue not as much anymore. I had the 3gs for ~4 years and by the end it was nearly unusable due to updates (noticeably worse every time). I'm now nearly at the 5 year mark on my 5s and on the latest ios, no problems. It's not as snappy as my wife's new phone but completely usable.

<comment><USER59> i would agree here. both of my parents and the wife have just as much time logged on their full-updated 5s' as well and, save for foreseeable decrements in battery performance, they think their system performance is generally indistinguishable from new.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER62> The comment about FaceTime made no sense. On iPhone you can use all the apps he mentioned. In terms of security, I trust FaceTime far more than I trust What's App who, in their policies, make it clear some data is shared with Facebook. Using What's App as a counterargument to FaceTime is rather strange to me. Signal maybe, but you can run that on iPhone just fine as well.

<comment><USER63> Yeah, i was confused about that... that whole 'closed system' section was much weaker than i thought. I thought somehow they were going to build a standardized app that can interface with all these closed apps- but then again, how would they do that to begin with?

<comment><USER64> Just write an android app that emulates an iPhone.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER65> Random but, whenever a new company comes with a dot com that is a standard word, I wonder how much it cost them. I remember color.com going for something like a quarter of a mill. Essential.com has to be in that ballpark.

</comment><comment><USER66> _It is not available, it is still on preorder / reservation. What is the purpose of this blog post? Nothing seems to have changed in a couple months!_

<comment><USER67> Those who preordered can now pay for the phone, as I have, and expect to physically have one in a few days.

</comment></comment><comment><USER68> Not a single mention of the IP rating. For a device that goes with us everywhere in varied environments the IP rating is important for making a purchase decision. If moisture is able to get into the device it doesn't matter how durable the exterior is.

</comment><comment><USER69> Is it just me, or does the selfie camera ruin the display? It comes so close to being bezel-less and ruins it with a feature I'll never use.

<comment><USER70> You're not alone. Just go to any thread and search for camera. For example:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/6e6f48/exclusive_t...](https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/6e6f48/exclusive_this_is_the_essential_phone/di7ywh8/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER71> Really dont want to make a joke here but your user name doesn't go well with the title.

</comment><comment><USER72> "your phone will always be secure and have the latest features."

Until 2 years passes...Apple supports their devices much longer than 2 years.

</comment><comment><USER73> I'm not sure what to think of this: [https://www.essential.com/about#team](https://www.essential.com/about#team) looking at the security team.

</comment><comment><USER74> I never buy phones on contract and I don't live in the states, so it can sometimes be hard to compare prices. But isn't this a fairly similar price to a similar iPhone/Pixel/Galaxy ?

I mean, isn't this the price range for a premium phone and isn't this premium specced?

Except for the silly "Everybody should be able to afford craftsmanship" line, I am having a hard time understanding why people are flipping out about the price.

I for one welcome what looks to be a great premium phone with better software than most flagship phones.

<comment><USER75> Yes, it's a premium phone that's premium-priced, same as the competition. I don't quite get it either.

</comment></comment><comment><USER76> Android is a funny ecosystem. Every month, dozens of new Android phones hit the market bringing new exciting features like a clippable 360 camera but still after 10 years, there is no policy in place for direct updates from the OS vendor (like with iOS or Windows Phone).

Sorry, I was a huge Android fan for many years but I just can't take an OS serious where 50% of billiona of phones out there won't get any updates because manufacturers don't get this managed. This is just insane.

</comment><comment><USER77> Check out postmarketOS. It's porting mobile linux to a whole host of old smart phones. It's a relatively new (open-source) project, but has already progressed considerably. A lot of people (myself included) are excited about the possibilities of having a fully hackable linux phone.

I am not active in the porting side right now, but am prototyping a mobile computing device that runs pmOS. It's kind of a neuromancer style ono-sendai portable deck: A rectangular box (approx 11x29x3cm) that you can opem up and velcro your linux phone into and have a full-sized, stainless steel, porclean, or plastic mechanical keyboard and foldable mouse with slots for extra memory and battery life. It is designed to be as compact and as durable as possible, while staying true to the postmarket name by sourcing from reused materials whenever possible.

My hypothetical market is mainly highly mobile autonomous individuals residing in developing world megacities, but I'm interested to know what someone from the US or Europe thinks about the idea.

Oh ya, one more thing, the profits go to pmOS, to scale up a re-wilding project, and to getting these hackable linux devices into the hands of children forced to work in the supply/waste chain of electronics manufacturing.

</comment><comment><USER78> > Your phone is your personal property.

Oh, come on! It runs android. My phone and data belongs to google.

<comment><USER79> I share some of my data to Google in exchange for their services, but I can flash any OS I want on my phone and I have used Android without Google services for non-trivial periods of time.

My phone is most certainly my personal property.

</comment></comment><comment><USER80> I think Andy Rubin is brilliant, but the more I read about the Essential phone and its history the more I think Rubin just got used to having a super high degree of control over his phone over the years, and doesn't feel comfortable not having a seat at the manufacturer's table anymore.

All of the attempts at differentiation seem muddled. It's upgradeable, not locked in, except the accessories use a proprietary docking system. It's high end, but that's an incredibly competitive space.

I would be shocked if this company last more than 5 years before acquisition/absorbtion.

I can imagine phones that could differentiate against Google/Apple... something super low end spec wise, that sips power and has a new OS built for speed. Maybe. I still think a Web Phone is a good idea. Maybe focus on niches like an exercise phone.

But... Any of this is extremely hard. Rubin just seems to be trying to beat Google at their own game, which I don't see going well.

</comment><comment><USER81> On the surface, doesn't look too different from Moto Z, at least in conception of modular accessories.

On the other hand I can't charge and use an earphone at the same time which I often do during long journeys.

And I don't know how much impact will be transferred to the inside parts or the screen in case of a fall since it's not aluminium body or plastic (or this aspect is irrelevant?). But a slight fall the aluminium of iPhone SE takes one more dent or a tiny cut.

Plus, ceramic shatters on impact usually as does glass. Maybe I am missing something here. Hopefully they have done something to make it not too slippery. My iPhone SE keeps slipping and for the love of keeping the size and look as it is I haven't yet started using a case.

Though the clean and sleek look is very good. Hope it succeeds. Though I won't be waiting for it. I've moved to iOS and it's beyond my price and size range for a smartphone anyway.

</comment><comment><USER82> It literally has a hole in the screen... I thought of that as an april fools day thing

Who can think of this as a good idea is beyond me

<comment><USER83> Holy shit you're right.

</comment></comment><comment><USER84> All these phone hardware manufacturers say their phone is better than the rest by adding extra. TBH none of the extras are really needed for a common person.

A common person uses the phone for "hello, how are you?" and social netowrking, games and some productivity. Anything more one would get a GoPro.

I have an iphone 6 and albeit its rather slow at times and receive iOS updates as the latest phones to an extend.

The android phones in the market takes about a year for an android update to be out in the market and one would have to be really lucky to get the update.

The phone manufactures in general can claim that the materials used are from the asteroid or whatever but the phone is actually limited by the OS & electronics capability

Not sure how Essential Phone is going to change any of this.

</comment><comment><USER85> If you are buying an Android phone, I am not sure why you wouldn't wait for phones officially supporting Project Treble . For example , Nexus 6p will get Android O, but without Treble.

Treble is the framework which could potentially make 0-day Android updates possible.

</comment><comment><USER86> "And once you turn it on, you'll find that there are a limited number of preloaded apps and no duplicative services."

This means every single required bloatware app Google requires in order to maintain their monopoly. And literally nothing else.

</comment><comment><USER87> "Premium materials and true craftsmanship shouldn't just be for the few. [...] we've tried to make our phone as affordable as possible [...] you can get an unlocked Essential Phone for just $699"

By what standard is this affordable?

</comment><comment><USER88> Ok, so he starts with a link to his 6 beliefs, I click it, read them then proceed to read the rest of the post, which contains the 6 beliefs again... I do like them though, except for the last one ;). Seems like a nice phone, but it doesn't seem particularly better then my OP3. They talk about freedom yet it's just Android right? Everything straight to Google right? What's so different from OP and the Nexus devices which also get updates and are minimal Android? That screen is nice, 128 GB is also nice. But other than that, I'm not really feeling it.

</comment><comment><USER89> Selling but not shipping. No word on actual ship dates on any of the three linked sites (direct, Best Buy, or Sprint) unless I'm looking in the wrong place.

Edit: Sprint is currently estimating August 28 on their shipping page.

</comment><comment><USER90> Does it have an Ingress Protection (like IP68) rating? Isn't mentioned

</comment><comment><USER91> Interesting bits:

\- Dual cameras on back with depth estimation

\- True monochrome images (digital B&W photography!)

\- USB-C port

\- Fingerprint sensor

\- "full" display

Overall it's great to have a phone with foundational philosophy of keeping it clean, open and play with others nicely.

The biggest missing story is apps. Can I use Google Maps, Drive, Gmail, Now etc? Out of the box? Will Google Play Store be fully supported? Without all these apps, phone is just beautiful thin brick. Also, burning question is how this would stand up against Pixel.vNext which seems to have many (but not all) of same philosophies.

<comment><USER92> From your interesting bits, this might just as well be a Xiaomi Mi Mix, wich has been out for a while and is getting cloned already. No B/W sensor though (and expansion pins, but I couldn't care less).

It also has a ceramic body and does hold up really well in drop tests.

</comment></comment><comment><USER82> Ugh

>You deserve a phone that can resist the trials of everyday use. That's why we made Essential Phone out of titanium and ceramic. These materials are harder, stronger, and more resistant to dents and scratches than the materials that make up most smartphones. And while costs for such finely crafted materials are usually reserved for high-priced, out-of-reach goods, we've tried to make our phone as affordable as possible.

I almost feel how hard he is forcing his engineer self to sound "markety"

</comment><comment><USER93> Why are new phones still a thing that people hype over? Until they significantly allow me to do something new that I can't do on any other phone it is just more of the same.

</comment><comment><USER94> First review: They liked it.

Things I learnt: It uses an LCD(screams, I like AMOLED) and has no waterproofing. An update for the camera was pushed right before the review was release which improved it greatly. Seems like a good $500 phone not a $700 one to me.

[https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/18/16165040/essential- phone-...](https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/18/16165040/essential-phone-review- android-andy-rubin)

</comment><comment><USER95> Does anyone know if these phones will work with Project Fi?

<comment><USER96> From the Project Fi FAQs:

>Project Fi is available on the Pixel, Nexus 6P, Nexus 5X, and Nexus 6. Currently these are the only smartphones to support our network of networks. You must have the North American model of the above devices in order to use it on the Project Fi network.

<comment><USER97> That's for official support. Project Fi worked fine on my iPhone SE.

However, I had problems with Project Fi sending my calls to random other peoples' phones across the country even when I was using my sim in my Nexus so I went back to T-Mobile.

<comment><USER98> I recall it "working" on other phones, but it's stuck on T-Mobile or Sprint (depending on your phone's hardware), and you lose out on some functionality since it uses specific bands[0]. Plus you still need an approved phone to activate it.

0\. [http://arkienet.com/2016/03/fi-on-a-non-nexus-phone-is- like-...](http://arkienet.com/2016/03/fi-on-a-non-nexus-phone-is-like-mowing- your-lawn-with-a-weed-eater/)

<comment><USER99> AFAIK, Fi uses both T-Mobile and Sprint if you have a dual band phone, and wifi if you're in a building without reception. Most phones have been dual band for a couple years now.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER100> display damaged from factory, no waterproofing, no jack, no SD card, no track record regarding update

no thanks, you are better off with flagship Samsung S8 which cost less

trying to use reputation of someone who was last time around Android in times of Jelly Bean release and who just copied iOS and completely changed original idea after release of iPhone, doesn't seem like that good idea for people who know facts

</comment><comment><USER101> Timing could not be any worse. iPhone 8 will be out next month so even the people considering buying Essential will at least wait it out another month to see how the iPhone is. And by then, the spotlight will be turned towards the iPhone and people will be less excited about Essential. They needed to release this months ago, as far away from September as possible

</comment><comment><USER102> This looks like a 'nice phone' but is nothing like as interesting to me as Maru ([https://maruos.com/](https://maruos.com/)).

Of course the reason I'm not running Maru right now is that the used Nexus 5 I bought was a gigantic POS. This phone, plus Maru, would be fantastic.

</comment><comment><USER103> _Essential Phone will get guaranteed Android OS updates for 2 years and will get monthly security updates for 3 years, so your phone will always be secure and have the latest features._

that's when I stopped reading. does "always" mean "2 to 3 years"?

in any case, AFAIK, that's no better than the Google Nexus/Pixel phones.

</comment><comment><USER104> Are there any reviews out? From what I can tell reviews are either embargoed or review phones haven't been sent out.

</comment><comment><USER105> If they really made it well, it would come with a declared lifetime.

What it has is a 2 year $99 extra warranty, on top of a $699 price.

<comment><USER106> Eh, who has a phone longer than 2 years now?

<comment><USER107> I don't (unless I break or lose phone). I try to keep using the same computer/phone/gadget for 3-4 years to get my money worth these days.

I just feel like it's a rip off to ask me to shell out £500 every two years for new iPhone, £600 for new iPad and £2000 for new MacBook Pro (prices are my best guess, I think new iPhones actually go for as much as £700 with better specs). So I try to go using my current tech longer.

It's also environment friendly. Bad for companies if more customers start thinking like this because they depend on selling the same device over and over again with minor tweaks.

<comment><USER108> I'm still clinging to my iPhone 5. Im waiting patiently for the soon to be announced iPhone 8 and I am only buying the 8 because my poor 5 is starting to not hold a charge, and is totally out of space and OS updates have ended.

<comment><USER109> Off topic a bit, but I think this is wonderful. If you are so inclined, consider trying to replace the battery on the phone. The total cost would be around $25 (including tools), and you'll have the pleasure of giving the device a new lease of life (whether you choose to donate/sell later, is up to you). I recently did this repair myself, and it was easier than I had expected it to be.

<comment><USER108> I thought about that, but combined with EOL software updates its a little harder to justify just replacing the battery. Ive already had one app I can't download because the OS is too old.

The OS runs a little slow on the 5's hardware now too. :/

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER110> I'm sure it's a nice phone, but I cannot unsee that stubby chubby.

Probably a really nice camera though. Other than the look of the camera I would consider this phone.

Edit: Oh, it's an add-on. So it's like we're going back to the old Danger Sidekick days when they had that little camera dongle.

<comment><USER111> Motorola has been pushing their 'MotoMods' as add-on sleds recently too.

'Our phone is so thin! And has a projector and a great camera and a huge battery! You just need to carry a hand bag of accessories!'

</comment></comment><comment> user-on1 Essential has any clause like the one mentioned here?

[https://www.xda-developers.com/one-class-action-lawsuit- agai...](https://www.xda-developers.com/one-class-action-lawsuit-against-lgs- bootloop-issue-has-been-compelled-into-arbitration/)

</comment><comment><USER112> This phone looks pretty slick, but I really wish it had a headphone jack. My 6p has some issues and needs replacement, and I want a flagship phone with a close-to-stock Android OS. The pixel 2 is ditching the headphone jack, it doesn't seem like there are any other good choices.

</comment><comment><USER113> If you are in Canada, Telus is the only carrier selling them: [https://www.telus.com/en/on/mobility/phones/essential](https://www.telus.com/en/on/mobility/phones/essential)

</comment><comment><USER114> How much different or better is the $700 Essential than the $60 BLU [1]?

1: [https://www.amazon.com/BLU-R1-HD-Exclusive- Lockscreen/dp/B01...](https://www.amazon.com/BLU-R1-HD-Exclusive- Lockscreen/dp/B01H2E0J5M)

</comment><comment><USER115> I wonder how well this stacks up against the phone Red is making[1], where the add-on functionality is a major selling point.

[1] [http://www.red.com/hydrogen](http://www.red.com/hydrogen)

</comment><comment><USER116> Images of the site don't load here. The video of the phone falling on the ground does, some other images do also, but a lot of the page is gray or black or blue spaces where I imagine pictures should be.

</comment><comment><USER117> I replaced my iPhone 6 with a NextBit Robin for $120! The camera isn't as good, but I love the rest of the phone. I'd rather spend $120 now and see what else is around in 1 year than $700 on this

</comment><comment><USER118> They tout the magnetic attachment points as making it easy to add new hardware accessories.

I wonder if the magnetic attachment points will demagnetize your credit cards if you have them both in pocket or your purse?

<comment><USER119> I have a wallet with a decently powerful magnet. Modern credit cards and devices seem to hold up fine. The only issue I've had is a parking garage ticket getting wiped.

</comment></comment><comment><USER120> I'd pay a lot of money for the latest android with stock root. I thought this was that but it's not. It's some kind of forked android with no version. Does it even have Google apps?

</comment><comment><USER121> > Premium materials and true craftsmanship shouldn't just be for the few.

At that price point, bollocks.

From the title and this subheading I was expecting something around 300, or at the _very_ least sub-500, but nope.

</comment><comment><USER122> I'd be interested to see how reliable this will be. I just want a smartphone that won't freeze/reboot/slow to a crawl seemingly always at the worst possible time.

</comment><comment><USER123> Anyone else remember that magnetic accessory connection port? Seems like a killer feature if done correctly. Or just another "Moto Mod" style feature that went wrong...

</comment><comment><USER124> Android w/out bloatware is not an "essential" OS. Let me own my OS and I'll think about spending $700 on hardware specs that I can get for $200 elsewhere.

</comment><comment><USER125> I've already got an HTC One M7 that I've had since 2013. It works perfectly and seems able to continue for another 4 years at least. Why do I need this phone?

</comment><comment><USER126> As phones become more and more powerful, the EOL dates should be longer and longer. Why restrict it to 3 years? Apple supports iPhones for about 5(?).

<comment><USER127> Most Android phones use Qualcomm chips, so if Qualcomm doesn't provide long term support. Neither does any company that uses their chips.

</comment></comment><comment><USER128> "We guarantee software updates for 2 years"

Damn you Android guys have it bad. Apple pushes the software updates down your throats years after purchase.

</comment><comment><USER129> The battery is too small, only 3040mAh. Just want a phone that lasts a full day of heavy app usage. No way this is it with that sized battery.

</comment><comment><USER130> Serious (non-troll) question: How is this phone not (at best) merely incrementally better than, i.e., Google's Pixel?

</comment><comment><USER131> I'm still holding out for Ocean Depths.

</comment><comment><USER132> > 5.71"

Nah. I don't get why manufacturers stopped releasing 4" phones. Seems like a perfect screen size to me.

</comment><comment><USER133> It's just another high end phone with fancy features. I would like to see more reviews and its usability.

</comment><comment><USER134> I am seeking a dual SIM variant that supports all bands of AT&T and Sprint. This does not currently exist.

</comment><comment><USER135> I imagine Essential will get sued by those with big patent portfolios if they become in any way successful?

</comment><comment><USER136> At Essential we don't promise simplicity... in fact we guarantee it will be incredibly difficult!

</comment><comment><USER137> I don't care for Android or IOS. Does anyone know of a phone that runs plain old Linux?

</comment><comment><USER138> No promises made about privacy even in a honey-talking PR piece, which is interesting.

</comment><comment><USER139> No dual sim :( That's basically the #1 feature I want to look for in a next phone

</comment><comment><USER140> How could this be 10X better than products in the already crowded cell phone market?

</comment><comment><USER141> Ctrl+F "Removable battery" : 0 results.

Verdict: pass.

No guarantee of software support for 3+ years either.

</comment><comment><USER142> It's amazing for me to see that Apple, once lightyears ahead with the original iPhone, is now being overtaken by small companies with features such as bezel less displays, wireless charging, high bandwidth data coupling etc.

Of course we'll have to see if Essential can actually deliver on their promise...

<comment><USER143> Essential doesn't need to ship the massive quantities Apple does. And anyway, Apple is getting ready to announce a bezel-free iPhone in September.

<comment><USER142> They are announcing after Essential and months after Samsung, so they are behind the competition.

So, my observation that Apple is no longer ahead of the competition (in terms of innovation, not volume) holds true.

But of course I am being downvoted into oblivion...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER144> Can someone explain why this is not just another mediocre $700 Android phone?

</comment><comment><USER145> Sounds like oneplus. 700 dollars (540 sterling) is bit steep actually.

</comment><comment><USER146> Someone knows if this smartphone uses a custom version of Android?

</comment><comment><USER147> What OS does it run? What type of SDK does it provide?

</comment><comment><USER148> Umm...we need another Android smartphone, why?

</comment><comment><USER149> $700 and no headphone jack? what courage!

</comment><comment><USER150> No 3.5mm headphone jack, never buying.

</comment><comment><USER151> Oooh titanium. That's next level.

</comment><comment><USER152> I'm getting a Piphone, myself.

</comment><comment><USER153> Anybody have or try one of these?

</comment><comment><USER154> Will it work in Europe?

</comment><comment><USER155> $699? Why so expensive?

<comment><USER156> Because that's how much iPhones and Pixels cost.

<comment><USER155> Generic unlocked Android smartphones, which this is, run $200-$400.

<comment><USER156> Well, I don't think they want a piece of that market. I think they want a piece of the high-end market.

<comment><USER155> That doesn't mean they get much of it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER157> haha 'essential' and 700$? No.

</comment><comment><USER158> Android again?

</comment><comment><USER159> I was hoping this was a modern flip phone :(

</comment><comment><USER160> i bet microsoft acquires them

</comment><comment><USER161> No headphone jack!

NEXT...

</comment><comment><USER162> all i can see are fingerprints

</comment><comment><USER163> too expensive

</comment><comment><USER164> Now we'll know exactly how many Andy Rubin fanboys there are in the world. Why would anyone else buy a $700+ phone from a startup which might not even be there next year? My prediction: a few tens of thousand units will be sold mostly in the US, darn near zero anywhere else.

<comment><USER165> > My prediction: a few tens of thousand units will be sold

Woah. _Tens_ of thousands? I would think a few thousand at most. There must be more to this story than I'm currently aware of. (This is the first I've ever heard of it.)

<comment><USER164> Well, the manufacturing order is probably for a few tens of thousands, and if sales don't go as they hoped, they could cut the price. As far as Android phones go it's not a bad phone. But pricing it at the iPhone levels was a mistake.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER166> > Devices shouldn't become outdated every year.

> Essential Phone will get guaranteed Android OS updates for 2 years and will > get monthly security updates for 3 years.

That's honestly not much of an improvement, and I'm not aware of any current phones that are outdated after a year (unless you're one of those gadget fanatics who _has to have_ the most cutting edge phone).

> we've tried to make our phone as affordable as possible.

$700 is affordable now? What world are we living in!? Silicon Valley, I guess?

> Simple is always better.

> we put nearly a year's worth of development into making a camera that > integrates into the body of the phone (without the tell tale camera hump)

Really starting to question their priorities at this point...

Maybe "essential" is the wrong word for what they're doing, because it seems like they spend a lot of time on things that aren't essential at all. Who needs a 360 camera? And who cares about a 1mm camera protrusion? And since when do we all agree that a 3.5mm headphone jack isn't "essential"?

<comment><USER167> Your first point is spot on, and why I'm really annoyed by android phones these days. A simple, and still fully factual, rephrasing of their statements makes it obvious just how bad it is:

> Devices should become outdated every other year.

</comment></comment><comment><USER168> wake me up when there is a phone that runs proper linux. with decent drivers.

if anyone told you that you would be using your own computer in "kiosk" mode with a root password you don't have, you would be laughing your ass off. but here we are, all using the 90s equivalent of a library computer.

<comment><USER169> Ubuntu tried that, and it was a complete flop

<comment><USER170> I would hazard to say Ubuntu didn't try it, they just _looked_ like they were going to try it, but never did. Releasing only a handful of phones, not making a fully functional 1.0 release isn't trying, it's just testing the waters.

<comment><USER171> I bought an Ubunutu phone. It had potential but it was too late to the game. It didn't get any developer momentum behind it, so it was lacking in apps, while Android got way better in the year and a half that I owned one.

<comment><USER170> I kind of agree. The Ubuntu phone was the first phone I've had that I didn't hate. That being said, it wasn't ever stable enough to get developers behind it, so it didn't have very many apps.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER172> I think this company gets a lot of things right. Frankly, some of their marketing really speaks to me, like this bit from the home page[0].

 _Your phone is your personal property. It's a public expression of who you are and what you stand for.

Just because we played a part in making it doesn't mean you should be forced to advertise that fact to everyone in your life. Now you know why we don't have any logos on the phone._

They've thoroughly outclassed Apple in this and a number of other ways. I think they've put a lot of thought into matching the thoughts and aspirations of customers, and if the phone is anywhere near what it's cracked up to be, it's probably worth the price.

[0]: [https://www.essential.com/](https://www.essential.com/)

<comment><USER173> The only problem I see with the Essential Phone is that you'll only receive 2 years of OS updates. For a $700 phone, that's a bit insulting.

<comment><USER174> > Essential Phone will get guaranteed Android OS updates for 2 years and will > get monthly security updates for 3 years, so your phone will always be > secure and have the latest features.

Yeah, that doesn't seem that great at all. iPhones are 3-5 years. [https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/53mizf/iph...](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/53mizf/iphone_ios_support_schedule_oc/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER175> No 3.5mm jack, no thanks.

<comment><USER176> Does it have a floppydrive?

<comment><USER177> Could you recommend a pair of cheap, studio quality, headphones that use bluetooth? Also a pair of good value, audiophile quality earbuds that use bluetooth?

Please don't suggest Beats by Dre, or Apple. They aren't either.

<comment><USER90> How about ones that don't have unpredictable 15ms-30ms latency was well...

<comment><USER177> I didn't mention the insertion of shit codecs, either. Or replacing them every couple of years when the soldered in battery dies (as opposed to my Sony MDRs, that I've been using almost daily for a decade). Or trying to use them for 6+ hours a day, and keep them charged.

Or the killer feature of knockabout earbuds: that they cost $10 or so you can use them without worrying about leaving them somewhere, and afford to keep a pair in every bag.

<comment><USER90> Another thing, there's simply not enough 2.4ghz bandwidth available in a crowded environment [like an airplane] for everyone and their pet dog to have 2 channels of skip free low latency high def audio

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER178> > Essential Phone will get guaranteed Android OS updates for 2 years and will > get monthly security updates for 3 years, so your phone will always be > secure and have the latest features.

Unfortunately, this is the _maximum_ any vendor can promise to do right now, as anymore than that depends on the chip manufacturers and such to support their chips. So until Google changes that somehow by forcing manufacturers' hand, this will be the best we'll get.

</comment><comment><USER179> While this is truly an impressive project, both in engineering and vision, I'm probably not going to buy one. The main reason being that they chose to go with Android.

They had an opportunity to experiment with offering a FOSS mobile OS, but instead they chose to go with design-by-committee's poster child.

</comment><comment><USER180> A little expensive IMHO.

I've dropped the iPhone a little more than a year ago. I got a Y6II for $179. Perfect performance, but didn't like Huawei's tweaks to Android.

I just got a Moto G5 Plus with nearly-stock Android and it's the best phone I've ever owned, and I paid only EUR 280 for it.

<comment><USER181> There's also the Nokia 6 playing in that same space. But let's not pretend that those are in the same "flagship" league as the specs on this phone. Screen is higher resolution, processor and GPU are faster, more storage and memory, dual cameras with more MP, USB-C... I mean, almost every spec point worth caring about is obviously better.

<comment><USER180> I don't know, I can't imagine needing more than 3GB of RAM,>200dpi and 4K video in a phone.

I'm not saying the phone isn't great, just a personal perspective.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER182> That's cool... it looks like an Android phone.

</comment><comment><USER183> Ugh, I hate the branding. Smartphones are NOT essential. Fuckers.

<comment><USER184> Ugh, I hate the branding. Smartphone is NOT a galaxy. Fuckers.

<comment><USER183> Whatever, you know what I meant. But yeah, I do hate branding :P</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: What are modern front ends for RxJS? - <AUTHOR> I'm catching up on React and seeing the changes that have happened recently which include hooks.  Needless to say I'm not thrilled.  When I was last heavy into frontend, I was excited by cljs atoms and top down virtual dom rendering.  I had my front end and backend being rendered by the same codebase.<p>What I'd like to be able to do is render something using RxJS + Typescript. What gui libraries are best to use for that these days?  Am I looking at only Bootstrap? <comment><USER2> If you want a minimal library, I would recommend [1] "vue.js", you can easily pass observables to components, it supports typescript easily too.

Also, [2] "vue-rx" might be a good alternative to RxJS, as it allows for automatic subscription management and streaming.

[1] [https://vuejs.org/v2/guide/typescript.html](https://vuejs.org/v2/guide/typescript.html)

[2] [https://github.com/vuejs/vue-rx](https://github.com/vuejs/vue-rx)

<comment><AUTHOR> Wow I had no idea vue supported rx and typescript now. thanks!</comment></comment>


Why Good Developers Write Bad Unit Tests - <AUTHOR> https://mtlynch.io/good-developers-bad-tests/ <comment><AUTHOR> Author here. Happy to answer any questions about this post or discuss any of the points I raised in the article.

<comment><USER2> Mike, on the subject of long test names, I like to use the Gherkin language to formulate some of my test names. It makes reading them rather easy and gives context.

-Tyson

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for reading, Tyson! I wasn't familiar with Gherkin, but from reading up on it a bit, I like it. It seems like it provides a nice structure for writing test names in a clear, consistent way.</comment></comment></comment>


Kairos Face Recognition way better than Amazon and Microsoft, cheaper too - <AUTHOR> https://dataturks.com/blog/face-verification-api-comparison.php?src=yc <comment><USER2> Really surprising that these new startups like Kairos are doing as good a job as the big guys like Msft/AWS.

Whatever happened to the theory behind data network effects, why do the big tech companies are not having an unfair advantage w.r.t ML APIs?

<comment><AUTHOR> Hypothesis Disclaimer: Most of the customer of these APIs would be corporations who need a little bit of hand-holding, So they might be looking for dedicated customer support. Kairos would be able to give big corps a run in that manner. If they get more customers, then more data, better results.

<comment><USER2> still doesn't answer how is Kairos (or others like it) are even building ML APIs which to ppl like me seems to be an exclusive domain for the big 4 (wondering can I practically compete with the big4 on data-based services, when there is no notion of stickiness etc).</comment></comment></comment>


The Effectiveness of Targeted Nutrient Therapy for Mental Illness (2010) [pdf] - <AUTHOR> https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/52d8/729448e4d82e76f4cde04f3f45375c12fcd5.pdf <comment><USER2> This may not be a super credible source. Methylation and pyrroluria both raise flags for pseudoscience, and the journal is not a mental health journal but a nutrition journal. The methodology is loosely defined, as the patients were "interviewed for up to 1 hour" to determine the presence of these biochemical markers (?!) and that interview based determination played an outsize role in the intervention performed: "Considerable emphasis was given to the clinical diagnosis, as the biochemical markers are sometimes imprecise and the therapeutic decision may be made on the clinical diagnosis."

Edit: Also, I may have just skimmed too quickly, but did they not comment on any review board or ethics committee signing off on them performing clinical interventions on people with mental health disorders, which in some patients could have caused them to change or stop their prior medication? Big red flag here.</comment>


How Bank Practices Increase Overdraft Fees (interactive tool) - <AUTHOR> http://www.pewtrusts.org/our_work_report_detail.aspx?id=85899364999

<comment><USER2> It may be interactive, but it's not really a tool when all I can do is switch between two displays: more like a slideshow.

And the "interactivity" was just a hindrance to understanding what the article was trying to illustrate: it would have been much more illuminating to have the two bills side by side, with lines joining corresponding items.</comment>


SQL vs. NoSQL - <AUTHOR> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/10770?page=0,0 <comment><USER3> I am presently researching these so-called NoSQL databases and one thing that I keep wondering is why can't all of these database still support a _limited_ form of SQL-like language?

Almost any json document could be represented as a db table as far as I can see. Why can't I query using a common language instead of learning each of these NoSQL database's own way of doing simple stuff like returning documents of User object that have a gender field value as 'male'. In SQL, it would be something like "select * from users where gender='male". Why can't NoSQL databases support a query similar to that? Why do they require me to describe a similar request in their own unique syntax?

I sometimes get the feeling that coining a term like NoSQL is a marketing gimmick which hurts people actually trying to learn the nuanced differences but I am only getting started. Why can't we _extend_ SQL to support "NoSQL"-specific cases instead of replacing it with _nothing_.

I get that a big part of SQL is joins and the philosophy of joins goes against the idea of NoSQL. The solution to that is to still accept SQL but just throw an exception when join is used with a link to educate the person on alternative implementations.

<comment><USER4> I believe some do offer SQL-like query languages.

But if all you support is lookup by key, or even just lookup by field, then SQL really isn't that useful in my opinion. And if your lookups are based on map-reduces that have to be pre-specified then I can't see any place for an SQL-like language at all.

SQL is ok for specify queries to relational databases, but I don't think it generalises to any type of store apart from maybe the very basics. And at that point what benefit are you getting appart from a slight, and misleading, sense of familiarity?

<comment><USER5> Yeah Cassandra has CQL and it works pretty well, it's comfortable to use where the cassandra-cli is quite painful for anything other than the very beginning of a project.

I believe in earlier releases CQL was slower but now it seems fine. Also the most popular Cassandra client, hector, supports CQL, adopting CQL should be possible for a lot of Cassandra use cases.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I don't really get why HBase isn't bigger than it is. I mean, it's BigTable, right? And Facebook dropped Cassandra for it, IIRC.

Not trying to start a war here, I am not an interested party, I am just curious.

<comment><USER7> Only a fraction of companies can ever really outgrow the capabilities of a fully tuned RDMS. And only a fraction of those will choose HBase over its competitors. And so only people who have worked for such companies have any real experience with the product... and only a fraction of those are vocal about it on the internet.

<comment><USER5> I agree with what you say, but I think we also need to consider cost as well as capability of the underlying product.

Introducing cost massively changes how that equation stacks up.

"How many tps can I run given a budget in the form of these 6 available servers". Well the boxes are under spec for what you want to achieve with an RDBMS, but yeah no problem with XXX nosql product.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> A NoSQL discussion isn't complete without a link to the inner platform effect

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner-platform_effect>

Basically if your application domain is inherently relational or inherently "SQL" no "NoSQL", then building your own RDBMS in your application absolutely dooms you, unless you're not a "real" application writer but actually a RDBMS author.

I have having a conversation with a guy "I wish there was a library for (whatever nosql DB he was complaining about) I could link in to do transactions and indexing for me" my reply "yeah, its called postgresql". That's not trendy and buzzword compliant, he ended up annoyed with me. There's a "pragmatic programming" book "seven databases in seven days" which is a pretty good book and it describes polyglot database design a little toward the end... so you "need" a key-value store and indexed transactions and there's nothing that does both perfectly... Well, there's plenty of good free open source DBs, so install and use two DBs... its really not that hard.

<comment><USER9> Found it: ( I hope its as good as the 7 languages one ):

[http://pragprog.com/book/rwdata/seven-databases-in-seven- wee...](http://pragprog.com/book/rwdata/seven-databases-in-seven-weeks)

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Interesting that one of the original "noSQL" databases that is still going strong today, Pick and its variants, was not mentioned in the article at all.

Universe and JBase are both well supported on Linux and there are several multi-billion dollar (revenue) companies running their core business on it - <USER2> work for one of them.

<comment><USER11> Both UniVerse and UniData are equally well supported on Windows, Unix and Linux. They have some interesting features that are still reasonably unique in the database world. E.g. Built-in transparent record encryption, including both key & index. [http://2012.nosql-matters.org/cgn/wp- content/uploads/2012/06...](http://2012.nosql-matters.org/cgn/wp- content/uploads/2012/06/Dan_McGrath_Rocket_U2_DB_Multi_Value_Model.pdf) Full disclosure: I'm the product manager for the databases.

<comment><USER10> You're probably familiar with the Eclipse distribution management package then (not to be confused with the IDE), that's the app I was referring to. I've been using Universe since the Vmark days, ADDS Mentor and Sequoia before that. Pick type databases are sadly under-rated. Possibly because there's never really been any kind of marketing aimed at indy developers and/or students?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> stopped reading the articled referred to amazon s3 a database. instant credibility killer. no thanks.

(p.s the amazon product you're looking for is dynamo)

<comment><USER13> What prevents S3 from being used as a highly scalable NoSQL key-value store?

<comment><USER14> latency (and costs)

<comment><USER15> Neither of those things prevents something from being a database.

S3 is an excellent key/value store for large values. It's also publicly available, which is nice.

For example, all the thumbnail images on reddit are stored in S3. Essentially the client is given the key and then they can go look up the value themselves, and since it is publicly available http, it works right there in the browser.

<comment><USER14> Your example (reddit using S3) is not a database use, it is a content delivery network use. For that, it is good enough, but I'd choose a different key-value store for database, and mostly because of the latency (been there, tried that).

<comment><USER15> Alright, I can give you a better example. Netflix uses S3 to store movies that haven't been rendered yet. It's definitely a database. The server says "I need to render this movie to the iPhone format, what are the movie bits" and the "database" (S3) returns the entire movie.

Also, I would argue that static content delivery is just another form of database. It's just a massive key/value store, there the keys are the files and the values are the contents of the keys.

Let me ask you this: What is _your_ definition of a database?

<comment><USER16> Interesting. Would you say a file system is a database?

<comment><USER17> I don't think I could come up with a coherent definition of a database which includes low-durability NoSQL key/value stores yet excludes file systems. This doesn't necessarily mean that file systems are a database, however; it could be that in order for the word "database" to be meaningful it must be defined in a way that excludes some things commonly thought of as databases, similar to why Pluto was deplaneted.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: A Go web server with logging, tracing, and demo apps in a single file - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/photonlines/Go-Web-Server <comment><USER2> I'm enjoying these "in a single file" projects. They aren't often the paragon of best-practices but they make it easy for newbies to peep in on the syntax and see how complex problems can be solved. They are also usually a lot easier to try out, compile and deploy.

Here are a few others:

\- Twitter Clone in Haskell in a single file - [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21616661](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21616661)

\- MPEG1 in a single C file - [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20643336](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20643336)

\- SingleFile CMS - [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18336986](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18336986)

<comment><USER3> It is an interesting idea, but it can be overkill. Just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be.

For example, there are ~130 lines of CSS in the Go file. Most editors have auto-formatting and suggestions for CSS for files ending in .css, which you won't get with this setup.

Also, with 885 lines of code, you have to wonder if reading the code is easier via scrolling / searching a single file or via tabs with multiple files.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> > all in a single file

It's not really an advantage, is it? Having everything mixed up into one giant file just makes the code much harder to make sense of.

<comment><USER5> I recently started learning go and I've been struggling with the lack of modularity across smaller codebases like this. For all of the great tooling around formatting go, I'm kinda surprised by some of the code organization decisions I see.

<comment><USER6> There's some differences in style. I take a very aggressive stance on separating my modules; my thought is that it's relatively easy to understand what any given module is doing if it is small and focused and clearly pulls in its dependencies. But it's a non-trivial challenge to keep it all so nicely isolated and avoid loops. Worth it, I think, or I wouldn't do it, but non- trivial. There are also a lot of people who pretty much just punt and put everything in one module, so they don't have to deal with circular issues. I'm not sure I see a clear community consensus.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Might be worth structuring this like a normal Go project (eg. right now this is in a package called "src", which is not great) if it's meant for education. Also the listen address is actually a port, not an address. Might be worth making that a generic address so the user can specify an interface to listen on.

<comment><USER8> Having looked at writing a simple Go web service recently. I spent far more time than I'd like looking for good examples of how to structure it. Especially when many examples don't use Go Modules.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> This is really cool! One suggestion: logging to a file makes it harder for things like Docker to exfiltrate logs. Log to stderr by default, and the caller can redirect to a file on disk if they want to.

<comment><USER10> Why log to stderr instead of just stdout?

<comment><USER11> Maybe just convention? It's standard practice to use stdout for directly interacting with a user and stderr for log/error type messages. You can redirect stderr to a file to get all of your log messages, but keep stdout available for interacting with the user. Super useful to separate meta- messages out in this manner.

Here's a good blog post with more info on stderr for those interested: [https://www.jstorimer.com/blogs/workingwithcode/7766119-when...](https://www.jstorimer.com/blogs/workingwithcode/7766119-when- to-use-stderr-instead-of-stdout)

<comment><USER12> Might be because stdout is buffered, so you don't always get output right away, while stderr is unbuffered.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> No reason to use a global int32 as a healthiness bit. Treat it as a dependency to the health middleware and the signal handler.

</comment><comment><USER14> If "in a single file" means having your html and your javascript in your go file, that's not a feature...

<comment><AUTHOR> I agree! The purpose of this was teaching, and not necessarily following all of the best practices! I made raw files which contain the go HTML templates, as well as the JS and CSS files available within the repository in case anyone wanted to reference these instead of including the raw code within main.go!!

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> How do I see the HTML and css in the GO code? Is it inlined somewhere ?

</comment><comment><USER16> ok but its over 800 lines. I guess that's small for everything it does? Yet it's certainly more than the size I think when i hear "single file"</comment>


MIT PhD student uses MS Paint to showcase CV - <AUTHOR> http://www.squicky.org/ <comment><USER2> It's cute, but it's only popular because the guy actually has some real credentials. If you tried this with a medicore resume it wouldn't work.

<comment><USER3> Well, without "real credentials", it's a webcomic. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. I completely forgot this was non-fiction until I read the HN title again.

<comment><USER4> Agreed, it's not really anything more than a gimmick. However, if it only appears once in a few thousand applications it's going to grab attention while someone is trying to figure out what the heck it is.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Nice way to look out for an employer with sense of humor. This will be dismissed by all the people you wouldn't want to be working for in the first place. Unless you are really desperate, it looks like a great strategy to end up working with people that are actually nice.

<comment><USER6> Yes this is a great way to weed out all those stodgy kids-movie-and-video-game animation studios.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> My favorite CV "presentation" will always be:

<http://web.me.com/agueniot/Data/Flash/cven.html>

Pulling out a 2004 link, but it has stayed in my Bookmark archive for years.

<comment><USER8> When someone is truly good they can really be creative in their methods.

<comment><USER9> What part of that CV shows he is 'truly good'?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Reminds me of <http://noonebelongsheremorethanyou.com/>

<comment><USER11> Very cool, thanks for the pointer!

Extra stuff: when you click the "buy" link (in one of the last slides) it takes you to the book's page on Amazon. Now scroll down and check the Video reviews. You'll see a video of the writer interviewing her book, talk show style, with the stove in the background :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> This made the rounds on Reddit (and probably other sites). Looks like its successful at getting attention, which is more than can be said about most CV/resumé pages..

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> The dog creeps me out.

This looks like interesting research: <http://www.squicky.org/work/sca07gtw/>

Anyone know much about motion capture? Is it something that is now doable at any sort of homebrew budget levels nowadays?

<comment><USER7> The dog creeps you out, but the "I am actually a deadly robot sent from the year 2748 to kill you!!" you are okay with?

<comment><USER13> It's kind of a comforting thought - if there are deadly robots being sent back from the year 2748, that means the human race survived global warming and was able to invent time travel!

<comment><USER14> whats more comforting is that, if they are able to send back things into time then we would have enough computational capabilities to solve the time space anomalies and paradoxes of time travel.

<comment><USER15> Or maybe he ended-up here by accident.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> A little on a tangent but I'd like to dispute the conception of MS Paint as something that can only create poor art. Take a look at the following: <http://www.drububu.com/tutorial/mspaint.html>

</comment><comment><USER17> As a person who has never completed a webpage, I should thank this guy for finally ending this cycle. I read every part of his page and was even checking the backlinks out of curiosity.

MSPaint has a strange way of pulling me in; then never letting me go :(

</comment><comment><USER18> This should work very well - for getting employed by his mum?

</comment><comment><USER19> Garry Tan has a good take on it's draw. Ms paint on a cartoon website is the low-fi of today. "like owning vinyl records"

</comment><comment><USER20> Thought CV stood for Computer Vision; was confused.

<comment><USER21> Curriculum Vitae - it's what most countries call a resume'.</comment></comment>