TechCrunch Tours Dropbox Offices - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2011/02/10/inside-the-psychobox-a-tour-of-dropboxs-bumping-office/

<comment><USER3> This was just... awkward. Don't get me wrong - it's very interesting to see what it's like inside the office of an up-and-coming startup, but it just wasn't what I expected. When I think of startups (or hackers in general) I think of some geeky guys with a dose of rebelliousness - <USER2> Y-Combinator startups. I think of guys who want something more than Big Co has to offer. Guys that are passionate, driven, and motivated. From the video, this isn't the vibe I picked up at all. The employees just seemed weird, for lack of a better word. Maybe they were acting for the camera, but nobody seemed to be doing any _real_ work, and everybody seemed okay with that. From the artwork to office layout, the company culture almost appeared _forced_ and unnatural. Am I alone in thinking this?

FWIW, I haven't watched any other "TC Cribs" videos, so I don't want to generalize. Maybe it's just Dropbox. I'm checking out other videos now.

(I may get downvoted for my slightly negative view here, but it is my opinion and I'm sticking with it)

<comment><AUTHOR> Of course it's unnatural. There's people walking around with big cameras and I'm sticking a microphone in their face. We could show people coding with their head down, but that would be pretty dull. So we get some shots showing people doing actual work, and then explore some of the things that make the office unique, and what they do to blow off steam.

<comment><USER3> Hi Jason, I appreciate the response. You're right that a video of people coding with their head down would be pretty dull, but that's not exactly what I was getting at. Digging deeper than that, nobody you interacted with showed any enthusiasm or charisma. In my mind (and maybe I'm overly optimistic/idealistic), startups are generally the most enjoyable and satisfying jobs out there - and it's not because of arcade games in the office. Undoubtedly it's nice (and practically essential) to have outlets for releasing stress, but the satisfaction comes from doing real, valuable work, and I guess I just expected some of the passion and enthusiasm to come through in the personalities of the employees. I'm not saying they don't love what they do - I'm just saying I didn't see it, which is slightly disappointing. At any rate, I appreciate the perspective of the videos and look forward to seeing more.

<comment><USER4> Software startups are still desk jobs. The best one can hope for is to stave off completely becoming "Office Space" until after the acquisition or IPO.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I swear it's the Jason's goal to create as many awkward situations while filming these Techcrunch office tours.

He walks into people, unsuccessfully tries walking backwards while talking, missed fist pound etc. It's amusing.

<comment><AUTHOR> That's just me :)

<comment><USER6> Keep being awesome! :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Wow. I don't mean this as negative towards Dropbox at all but I never thought I'd see that level of decadence again. I mean, the Phelan Building (where they're located) is massively expensive (its a 105 year old historic landmark). Custom art on the wall, band rooms, arcade games, free food and all the amenities.

Again no slight intended. If they have the money they might as well enjoy it (I did when I was young and in the same situation). But for a company that had its first release what about 2 years ago they're living large.

The 90s are back after all.

<comment><USER4> Is it really massively expensive?

When I left SF all those old buildings off Market were the cheapest options in The City. Also, you could usually take over the lease for cheap from some other startup wipeout.

<comment><USER7> I guess expensive is relative but last I checked it was about $1,100 for a 300sq ft office (and they clearly have a lot more than 300sq ft). That was a few years ago when I had a friend who moved his offices out of there because the location wasn't worth the cost to him.

<comment><USER8> What does it cost in terms of talent and time for every block away from BART and the Underground you decide to locate your office?

It's a more expensive than an extra $5K or $10K a month in rent, that's for sure.

<comment><USER9> This is exactly the logic that our mteam used in the '99 bubble when we built out offices on 2nd. I'm not saying Dropbox is extravagant, but this isn't a compelling argument to me.

<comment><USER8> That's not the logic that sank the company.

Seriously, $5 or $10K increase in monthly rent is a pittance. There are a lot more wasteful things I could bitch about than that, and I'm a cheap-ass.

<comment><USER9> Is Dropbox overspending on employee perks? I highly doubt it.

Does that make every expense that can be rationalized in comparison to headcount, revenue, or (worst of all) potential pull-through revenue valid? No! Some are valid, some aren't.

All I am saying is, this notion of "we need the very best talent, and we need to make it is as happy as can be" is a platitude that was used by execs to justify a lot of excess.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I think showing people's workspaces in some real detail would be fun. Everyone loves a cool setup. I don't know a developer that doesn't judge a company in part by how they equip their programmers.

<comment><AUTHOR> That's a good idea — I'll start asking about the standard setup.

<comment><USER11> Yes, I agree. I was more interested in Drew's setup than the sign taped to the wall (but I get why you did that).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> What I want to know is how these engineers at these startups avoid visual distractions? It seems to me that a lot startups create environments like this. It's clear that Dropbox has the money for cubes/offices. Is it a cultural thing? What gives?

<comment><USER13> Open works spaces are far better for collaboration. People avoid distraction with huge monitors that take up a lot of their field of view and headphones. Such offices are actually very quiet.

<comment><USER14> somewhat agree, except: collaboration == distraction

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Anybody else watched the whole thing hoping to see people actually working? And how they worked? And where they worked? Desks, computers, OSs, software, hardware, meeting rooms, etc.

No such luck.

Instead, that looked like the tour of a kindergarten: here we dance, here we play, here we sing, here we eat, and the view is great.

<comment><USER16> There are numerous sites that already cater to that sort of thing. LifeHacker and the Unclutterer's Workspace Flickr pools are rather large. Usesthis goes into greater detail about specific setups.

While I find that stuff interesting, that's not the show they are doing. It's MTV Cribs for startups. And that really didn't exist before this.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Great tour video. Lots of fun.

But if I were one of the investors, I'd probably be pretty PO'd to see how my money was being spent.

Not since the dotcom boom have I seen that kind of place. Startups seem to want to run kinda lean these days, so they can be more agile. (That's not to say that the folks shouldn't be well equipped, which it looks like they are, but custom artwork and a DDR machine?) And clearly too much floor space for their size. It'd be a far better use of their funds to operate a smaller office, then move when they outgrew it.

It could be worse, the whole place could be full of $900 Aeron chairs.

Oh wait, it was.

<comment><USER8> The amount of money that it costs to outfit an office comfortably is minuscule to real recruiting costs.

How about paying $20,000 for a recruiter to find a world-class engineer and get them to leave Google to join your never-been-heard-about startup?

How about paying $50,000 to a recruiter to conduct a VP of Sales search and run the process for you?

Aeron chairs, cool pictures and desks all make an office more enjoyable, and are cheap by comparison.

<comment><USER17> Not to completely dispute what you've said, since I agree with it for the most part. But my takeaway from the video certainly did not leave me with the impression that the team there was somehow so short on time that they couldn't just do their recruiting themselves (not to mention the tons of free publicity dropbox already gets acting as a useful recruitment tool). In fact, quite the contrary.

I'd be PO'd to find that these guys dropped $50k recruiting a sales VP also. I'd imagine that that custom stone conference table probably ran around $50k (they ain't cheap). I'd probably even be able to make a safe bet that just the "stuff" in their conference room cost somewhere between $100k to $200k.

Everything in the video just didn't give me the impression of being good ways to spend money. I think the number of people in this thread who are acting kinda creeped out about their office lends me _some_ support.

If anything the DB guys should be heads down figuring out their next product. It won't take much for Microsoft or Apple to just build something like this into their next rev of their OSs or in some patch and simply put them out of business. They have a great product and a good revenue stream, time to start figuring out the next step.

If that step is to sell the company? I certainly wouldn't want to think that I'm buying all this crap along with the corporate assets for my purchase price.

All that said, I'm really just bitching, if they are paying the bills and have cash left over for this stuff, more power to them. It really does look like a cool office and it's a fantastically cool company with a brilliant product. Their continued success is something to be praised, that's for sure.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I really dislike the fact they as the average developer doesn't get anything like this at all. Its pretty upsetting that companies that are major software companies spend massive amounts of money on their devs, but those companies that aren't fully software could give two craps about their devs. Its just disappointing that I have to work for the latter.

</comment><comment><USER19> Employees in the US work some of the world's longest hours. And yet there these folks are in their office, playing games. Is that typical? I don't get it. Why stay in the office playing games when you could go home? I guess this is the sort of question that, as a generally-self-employed 41-year-old father of a preschooler I'm in no position to figure out. That video weirded me out.

<comment><USER20> It's fun for a while -- like a continuation of school / residence.

Also, it can give you the technical chops, contacts, and pedigree to eventually become a generally-self-employed 41-year-old father who works fewer hours.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Would have been more interesting to see the Dropbox data center, and get some insights into how they operate and scale it.

<comment><USER22> I believe they use Amazon S3 for all storage.

<comment><USER23> In fact, they're supposedly the single largest user of S3 by data stored.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> the red-black tree reference is amazing

<comment><USER20> Yes, that was cute. I love how it seemed to be lost on the interviewer and editors. That makes it so much better.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> IMO the recent trend of showing off pimped out startup offices is highly indicative of a bubble. Our startup operates out of a crummy little room, and that's how we like it

<comment><USER26> why bubble ? Afaik dropbox is highly profitable so what keeps them from having a fancy office to make the work experience better for them and most importantly their employees ?

<comment><USER25> Is the same true for Scribd? (last office on TC Cribs) What about all the other startups that are setting up offices in lofts around SOMA?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> I dig the collaborative workspace. Ever seen the office atmosphere of those companies that design consumer products? That is what Dropbox's space reminds me of.

The best part is that Drew isn't enclosed in some corner office. He sits in the open with his team. Big thumbs up.

</comment><comment><USER28> As a guy with ADD, i would never be able to work at a place like that! I mean do actual work. I would just be too distracted by all the fun things to do. I think many more developers are the same?

Well, cool office though. I am a dropbox user myself and love the service!

<comment><USER20> Yes. I've worked in some bad open-concept setups where the mean-time-between- distractions (MTBD) was sometimes 5 min or so. Awful.

Um. Did you just sit your sweaty ass on the corner of my desk so you can lean over and chat to the dude sitting next to me? WTF?

Programming (and games programming, especially) seems to attract a lot of ADHD types.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> TechCrunch as HGTV just doesn't do much for me.

<comment><USER30> yeah. i wasn't buying the MTV Cribs editing style either. Inauthentic.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> Why do they need so many people? Customer support?

<comment><USER13> Dropbox has lots of engineers and needs a lot more: <http://dropbox.com/jobs>

The support team is pretty solid though. They have a hard job and do it well.

<comment><USER31> I had no idea.. thanks!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> Awesome office. Dropbox is doing better than ever! I wonder why they just went 1.0 though--they've been around forever.

</comment><comment><USER33> haha, I like the end.

</comment><comment><USER34> It still amuses me how the view is always mentioned before entering the startups office space. Although I have to say that Dropbox's 'Crib' is my favourite TC Crib so far.

</comment><comment><USER35> That startup looks real lean. </sarcasm></comment>


Ask HN: Can i post my artworks here? - <AUTHOR> Hello everyone, nice to see you again. I like to ask can I post my artworks here on hacker news. I know it's not relevant to Hackernews content but I like to hear thoughts and suggestions about my work. There are alot of popular channel where I can post, But I mostly spend time here in hacker news and I like too. So, I thought of asking.. Thank you. <comment><USER2> What sort of posts are you considering making?

<comment><AUTHOR> I try to make some posters, graphic collections, etc during my free time and I like to sharing and hear what everybody like to say about it. These are my projects – [http://behance.net/jaisonjustus](http://behance.net/jaisonjustus). I thought of asking before posting. because here I don't see such posts. it's very rare.</comment></comment>


Mobile social network mig33 sends twice as many messages as twitter - tomh- http://techcrunch.com/2010/03/12/mig33-twice-messages-twitter/

<comment><AUTHOR> Is mig33 still around? I thought they laid off almost all of their staff and took their assets back to Singapore where the founder was from.</comment>


Ask HN: Does developing P2P file sharing software look bad on your resume? - <AUTHOR>

<comment><USER2> Maybe if you are applying for a job with the MPAA, otherwise no. In fact may make you look better than the rest

</comment><comment><USER3> Depends if the interviewer is a pirate. So no. Being involved with a piracy site directly might be worse.</comment>


Ask HN: Anyone else prefers the Mac butterfly to scissors keyboard? - <AUTHOR> I really like the butterfly keyboard as someone who types most of my waking hours they are super fine.  I prefer them than scissors because of the lower travel where I am able to type much faster.  Had no issues.  Anyone else with me? <comment><USER2> I'm not a fan of either but the scissor keys are better than the butterfly keys. I prefer the greater amount of key travel, and these keys aren't destroyed by a single grain of sand.</comment>


Show HN: Sizle.io – React Presentation Builder - <AUTHOR> https://sizle.io/presentations/ <comment><USER2> _looks at pricing_ _what are credits_

no answer in sight.

</comment><comment><USER3> Is there a demo?

</comment><comment><USER4> Please view your graphics on a retina or better display before you publish</comment>


Zero moment of truth - <AUTHOR> http://www.zeromomentoftruth.com/

<comment><AUTHOR> Does anyone know what technologies have been developed in Google that are related to this research? This Google report is pretty impressive and very detailed in its ebook.</comment>


Tenderlove on Rails security exploits - <AUTHOR> http://tenderlovemaking.com/2013/02/06/yaml-f7u12.html

<comment><USER2>
      "Think of YAML as a human readable Marshal."

That's what people missed. YAML is a marshaling format, full stop. The Ruby community has to absorb this idea, and quickly, because YAML is everywhere.

</comment><comment><USER3> Great blog post and it's explaining the problem and possible solutions.

</comment><comment><USER4> Aaron Patterson just rocks, what a great explanation.</comment>


People Track Health Stats - <AUTHOR> http://mashable.com/2013/01/27/people-track-health-stats/

<comment><AUTHOR> Makes me think we need some open sourced US government sponsored apps to make things easy and standardized -- it's the type of data that is both sensitive and yet has great public importance.</comment>


Ask HN: I need warm gloves that won't hinder typing - <AUTHOR>

I need a pair of warm gloves that are thin enough that I can still touch type.
The arthritis is kicking in early this year (morning temps in the 50s) and I have to keep working.
If you have any recommendations or links, please, please share.
(Note: Multi-million dollar winning lottery tickets cheerfully accepted in lieu of advice.) <comment><USER2> Two ideas:

There are gloves aimed at photographers that either have thinner material at the fingertips, slits to stick the fingertips out of or removable tips.

Glove liners made from silk (intended to be worn under thick gloves, like socks are for shoes) can be really thin, maybe combined with a fingerless glove?

<comment><AUTHOR> I hadn't known what glove liners were made from. A set or two of silk liners underneath nytrile gloves might be just right.

I'm going to check out the photographer's gloves, too!

I never re-adjusted to cold climates after the service. I spent so much time in Asia/Africa that if it isn't 85 or 90, I'm looking for a sweater. You'd figure after more 20 years my body would have would reset.

Thanks for the leads!

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> You could cut the fingers off a pair of cheap gloves.

<comment><AUTHOR> Ah, but the fingers are the part I need most. Thanks, though.</comment></comment>


No more JS frameworks - <AUTHOR> http://bitworking.org/news/2014/05/zero_framework_manifesto

<comment><USER2> "HTML+CSS+JS, was, for lack of a better term, a disaster" \- it's still is though. There is no way to re-design them from scratch eliminating the numerous design flaws due to compatibility requirements AFAIK?

</comment><comment><USER3> I look at this as javascript developers taking the next natural step and thinking about de-coupling</comment>


Ask HK: How can small businesses reduce currency risk? - <AUTHOR> I'm a small business and face cash flow uncertainties due to currency fluctuations. Does anyone have a similar problem and an idea how to mitigate this? <comment><USER2> If I recall reading correctly, to protect against exchange rate fluctuations, many organizations use the forex market. Forex being futures market in different currencies. So if you are worried the markets will go one way, then you place a transaction to cover that. If it never occurs you lose the transaction cost, if it does then you get covered for it. It is a little complex and you need to be sure to manage your level of risk.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Anyone knows which companies offer simple solutions that are easily accessible for smaller companies?</comment>


Japanese Day Trader Made $34M from Monday's Panic - <AUTHOR> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-28/while-many-panicked-japanese-day-trader-made-34-million

<comment><USER2> and how many day traders made significant losses? or will we hear about his next bold trade when he loses everything again?

those articles always read like smart money recruiting more dumb money into the markets.

<comment><AUTHOR> Well, the market is about re-distribution of wealth. So ya, I am sure there were tons of losers ... and this guy must have had days that he lost much more than $30 mil. and was not featured.

I think this is him: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La- WIYNjgoY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La-WIYNjgoY)

Can you imagine being a day trader and having built a portfolio that allows you to do such giant trades ? That is crazy.

<comment><USER3> That is B・N・F [0], a different famous day trader, not cis. [1][2][3]

[0] [https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%E3%83%BBN%E3%83%BBF](https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%E3%83%BBN%E3%83%BBF)

[1] [https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cis_(%E6%8A%95%E8%B3%87%E5%AE%...](https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cis_\(%E6%8A%95%E8%B3%87%E5%AE%B6\))

[2] [https://twitter.com/cissan_9984](https://twitter.com/cissan_9984)

[3] [http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-28/while- many...](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-28/while-many- panicked-japanese-day-trader-made-34-million)

[http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-09-25/mystery- ma...](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-09-25/mystery-man-moving- japan-made-more-than-1-million-trades)

<comment><AUTHOR> awesome - thanks.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Early replacement of West Eurasian male Y chromosomes from the east - <AUTHOR> https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/867317v1.abstract <comment><AUTHOR> This suggests that rape and murder were surprisingly effective reproductive strategies in prehistory. We're the children of those who employed them so it's baked into our genes to some extent. For how many generations do we have to make these strategies ineffective before we're rid of them?

If we find a multi gene pattern on the Y chromosome that tend towards such violence and we develop the technology to cheaply change it, we could theoretically be rid of the tendency in a single generation. But would it be justified, and would it improve the viability of our species?</comment>


Android 3.0 Preview SDK - <AUTHOR> http://developer.android.com/sdk/preview/index.html

<comment><USER2> Screenshots, because I was interested in seeing them too:

<http://developer.android.com/sdk/android-3.0-highlights.html>

<comment><USER3> I'm surprised they're still persisting with the faux-7-segment retro digital clocks.

See bottom right of: <http://developer.android.com/sdk/images/3.0/home_hero1.png>

The reference will be lost on non-geeks, who will just see an ugly looking clock.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> It's just beautiful. One of the best looking interfaces for tablets I've seen so far, and keep in mind Google is not too well known for artistic skills. It looks like hiring the lead designer from Palm really paid off.

Also, the technical details are pretty juicy. I can't wait to get my hands on a Xoom.

<comment><USER5> Ditto, I just wish it wasn't $700.</comment></comment>


How to flag and detect deepfake videos - <AUTHOR> https://www.iafrikan.com/2019/09/02/examining-a-videos-changes-over-time-helps-flag-deepfakes/ <comment><USER2> GAN Paradigm: If there is a network that can detect, there is a way to generate false positives.

<comment><USER3> Can you use the network to detect to improve generating deepfakes?</comment></comment>


One Amazon Year - <AUTHOR> https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/201x/2015/12/01/One-Amazon-Year <comment><USER2> ...and almost 20 years of XML.</comment>


The girl with the ANSI tattoo - <AUTHOR> http://oracle-wtf.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/girl-with-ansi-tattoo.html <comment><USER4> Please nobody let Hollywood see this blog.

Somebody's going to say, "Man, we went to all that trouble to make it look realistic. But it doesn't work. Fuck it. Bring back the guy who did the interfaces for Jurassic Park. And the guy who writes Wesley Crusher's dialog."

\---

Update: I love that my comment mocking excess nitpicking now has triggered triple-redundant nitpicking.

<comment><USER5>
      > interfaces for Jurassic Park

Replace Jurassic Park with "Operation Swordfish" or "Hackers," and you might be on to something. Especially since the Jurassic Park interface was a real program that actually existed.

<comment><USER6> Hackers is funny, but I watched it recently and was surprised at the realistic touches. In one scene, a character is showing off his "hacking" books - <USER2> included the dragon book, and a Unix book I believe is real.

<comment><USER7> THANK YOU

This movie gets so much completely unnecessary hatred. Yeah, it's a joke, but there is plenty of little nods to "real" culture in there. To me it has always been pretty obvious that it was supposed to be silly, but that the people making it knew what they were doing.

I'm pretty sure most of the books from that scene were actually real books.

<comment><USER8> I'd have to watch it again to be 100% sure, but - going from memory - <USER3> believe every single book mentioned in that scene was real. Certainly the "pink shirt book" (IBM Guide to PCs) is real, as is the Dragon book (compiler theory) and the "Rainbow books".

<comment><USER9> The pink-shirt book is not the IBM Guide to PCs, but "The Peter Norton Programmer's Guide to the IBM PC". Incidentally, the _blue_ -shirt book ("Peter Norton's DOS Guide") was the book that turned me into a computer nerd :)

<comment><USER8> _The pink-shirt book is not the IBM Guide to PCs, but "The Peter Norton Programmer's Guide to the IBM PC"._

Right, that's the one I was thinking about. It definitely stands out because of the pink shirt on the cover. So they got the exact title wrong (or I just mis-remembered what they called it in the movie), but still... that scene was fairly accurate for a hollywood movie involving computers. :-)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I really don't understand why people need to nitpick stuff like this. I mean, it's a movie -- the point is to tell a story not impart technical knowledge. Yeah, the query someone came up with on the fly isn't perfect, we get it, but in reality, this happens at the sql command line all the freaking time, it's a one-off, who cares? And yeah, the returned results are a bit incorrect for the query, but given that a bunch of freeze frame work had to be done to determine this, it seems like a pointless nitpick. Why not instead applaud the film- makers for actually using shockingly (for hollywood) real stuff.

Like I said, the point of movies is to tell a story. Sometimes this means glossing over bits, getting details wrong, or even presenting things out of order, because the important part is he plot. We all do this when we tell stories, it's human nature. We want to convey how awesome/important/sad/happy/whatever a moment was, and to do that we need to properly contextualize the emotion and key bits, not every detail. When the makers of a fictional story try to get largely unimportant details right, they are showing dedication to craft, not asking for technical advice.

Maybe it's because I'm ramping my team up for demo season, where I have to remind them and the researchers they work with that the grant reviewers haven't spend the last 6 months thinking real hard about the problem, and aren't as expert in the sub-field/topics as we are (they are pretty smart competent people, but they gave us money to do the work because presumably we know more about it than they do...). To do a demo and to make a movie are very similar. You need to convey the importance of the work, without making bogus claims (in demos about research, in movies its about plot breaking), and convey the context in which it can be understood. Sometimes this means leaving out or glossing over really cool technical stuff, because it doesn't actually matter to the bigger picture. Sometimes it means saying "this part is simulated with these assumptions because we don't know yet, or it still needs more reseach, but if true, it shows our point nicely". Sometimes it means showing things happen at 10x or .1x real time, because that is how you tell the story. It isn't lying or being stupid, it is getting points across.

Well anyway, that turned into a rant. TL;DR - Detail are not the point of movies, they are just a vehicle to help the point, we should applaud careful attention to them, not nitpick.

<comment><USER11> Thing is, if you're "good" at something, and a movie gets it wrong, it can ruin the movie for you.

My pet hate is people playing the piano, but playing the wrong notes (While the soundtrack is playing something different).

<comment><USER12> Exactly. My pet peeve is military depictions in movies. I can't recall a movie that's gotten even the basics right. I may be nitpicking, but it does detract from the viewing experience.

<comment><USER13> Black Hawk Down, Jarhead come to mind as modern examples of basically correct (though the behavior of some of the Delta force in BHD is overly exaggerated).

<comment><USER12> > Black Hawk Down

Yeah, that was a good movie, but Ridley Scott is so much better than most Hollywood directors that it's not a fair comparison. (Never saw Jarhead)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> > Shocked moviegoers will have been left wondering > why a genius-level hacker > would outer-join to the > Victims and Keywords tables only to use literal- > text > filter predicates that defeat the outer joins, > whether MySQL has a > LIKE operator, and why none > of the victims' initials are 'R L'.

For the record since you never see the entire query so it is likely that the SQL is not as wrong as the author suggests. There is an extensive use of ORs in the query so the conditions that are said to defeat the outer joins are not mandatory and the 'R' and 'L' checks are clearly not required to pass. I think it is pretty good representation of how you might build up query from scratch, piling up conditions in OR clauses to finally get what you want. Yes, provided the table that starts with V is aliased as v the v.SEX condition does defeat the outer join, but that might be exactly the sort of thing you would stick in after you had already established a working FROM clause and not bother changing the outer to an inner. Solving the case was after all by definition a one-off.

I enjoyed this article because it points out an occasion where a movie really did try to get it right. Someone who knows something about databases had to have made those screens up.

</comment><comment><USER15> In the original Swedish version she did it with MongoDB!

<comment><USER16> the original swedish version would have been Erlang/OTP running mnesia.

<comment><USER17> MySql also has swedish roots!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I'm happy that, finally, people are not shoving 'movie-os' in computer scenes anymore.

The first time I saw real stuff in movies was in Antitrust, then in Tron: Legacy and finally here.

<comment><USER19> The Social Network was good about it. Someone online actually reedited the scene where he was grabbing images from frat sites and edited in scenes from other films, like Hacker's "virtual skyscrapers", and suddenly it was like a real Hollywood film again!

<comment><USER20> We recognize when movies dumb computer stuff down, but the truth is they do it always!

Imagine sitting beside a big horse nerd and every time a horse is on the screen and makes this typical horse noise they would comment "the horse didn't make the sound" or white walkers are killing the night watch behind the wall and "this horse is not really frightened but relaxed and listens curiously" or every time there is a mighty black Frisian horse in a movie, which believe me hey are a lot!, they would comment how wrong and stupid it is that Zorro/Prince of Persia/the Spartans are riding Frisians.

<comment><USER21> I have a friend who is a competitive target shooter, and he's always complaining that the shell casings are the wrong size during shootouts.

Of course now he's got me doing it too...

<comment><USER22> Movies always abuse the gun-cocking sound, and/or have characters cock (or pump, for shotguns) the guns at inappropriate times because it looks cool.

<comment><USER23> Or the "click, click" empty revolver sound on a semi-automatic pistol. This pretty much only happens if you're evil though.

The slide just never seems to lock back like it should unless the hero has two guns that need to be thrown on the ground before he/she walks forward defiantly and grabs two MORE guns.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> g-garron It was totally bad to perform image leeching. The site <http://www.williamrobertson.net/>

Where the image are hosted, is now off-line, because of this.

You can use imgur, minus, or even blogspot itself instead.

<comment><USER24> That site appears to be the author's own site...

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Maybe I'm missing something, but why should it have been oracle SQL?

<comment><USER25> It's an Oracle-focused database blog so it was probably a reference to what his articles are usually about. (Just a guess.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> Heh, tried to share this on Facebook and got a "blogspot.co.uk is spam" warning.

</comment><comment><USER27> Wow! Only on HN could one expect people picking apart SQL from movie screenshots and then discussing the minutiae of that code! Not that I have any problem with it. However, it surprises me no end how inward-looking, tech- navel-gazing, nerd-o-maniac this can appear to an outsider looking this way :-)

<comment><USER28> Oh surely that's what they'd expect.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> I loved how matter-of-factly he says

 _Naturally I couldn't help stitching a few screenshots together in Photoshop_

</comment><comment><USER21> I tried to share this on my Facebook timeline (I have a lot of movie geek friends and computer geek friends), but I was not allowed to since it comes from an "overly spammy site".

First time I've seen that...

</comment><comment><USER30> Let me just say that after seeing the original Swedish movie and then reading the book, I was crushed to learn there was no hacker tool called "asphyxia" in the book.

<comment><USER31> There is in the English translation of The Girl Who Played With Fire.

<comment><USER30> Oh! I haven't gotten that far yet. Thanks for the tip.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> this guy worked on the TRON command line/vfx stuff <http://jtnimoy.net/?q=178>

Really amazing!

</comment><comment><USER17> >Shocked moviegoers will have been left wondering why a genius-level hacker would outer-join to the Victims and Keywords tables

Mysql defaults to inner join. See [http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4418776/what-is-the- defau...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4418776/what-is-the-default- mysql-join-standalone-inner-or)

</comment><comment><USER33> On a related note, I asked about fake UIs/OSs on quora a while back: [http://www.quora.com/Why-do-movies-and-TV-shows-often- show-f...](http://www.quora.com/Why-do-movies-and-TV-shows-often-show-fake- operating-systems-and-software-interfaces)

</comment><comment><USER34> The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo also uses OpenOffice which I thought was cool: <https://twitter.com/jyap/status/181908341675663362/photo/1>

</comment><comment><USER35> they constructed a relevant sql query. that is more than enough for that scene. compare with this: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkDD03yeLnU>

</comment><comment><USER36> You're all wrong. It's pretty clear they had to obfuscate what she really wrote so no one could use it to "hack into the mainframe," on advice from their lawyers to avoid liability.

</comment><comment><USER37> I think they've done a _pretty_ good job, compared tp the general level of hacketry and math prtrayals on film. This is up there with Trinity's login using a ssh vulnarabilty.

</comment><comment><USER38> "The Social Network" did hacking scenes quite well too. I'd recommend seeing that movie for anyone who's interested in doing a start up.

</comment><comment><USER39> Weirder still how the prompt clearly reads "mysql>" for Oracle.

<comment><USER40> ...did you read the article? They clearly state that it's MySQL. The blog itself is called Oracle WTF.

<comment><USER39> My mistake.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> Great article.

My pet peeves in shows/movies, are normally around the fact that it takes more than a few seconds to do anything useful on a computer. And yet on film even idiots seem to command their gadgetry with aplomb.

They should show failed password attempts. Computer lock ups. Anti-virus software blocking any meaningful use of the computer. Frustration of users as they are prevented from booting due to system updates etc.

I'm also not a fan of fake search engines - and video streams that appear in flawless hi-def!

I wish computers were omitted entirely sometimes - they are pointless props, and just age the movie. Couldn't they just say - 'I searched for blah'?

It's not like I'm loosing sleep over it though. I would rather TV wasn't such an insult to the imagination (I can - and enjoy - filling in the gaps myself.)

<comment><USER41> One movie I saw get this right is _Office Space_ , where Peter's computer has to do 69 different things before finally quitting.

True, it exits from a Mac-like GUI to a DOS prompt, but I loved the depiction of office software as finicky, time-consuming, and frustrating.

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> For people using mysql, that kind of query _really_ isn't such _bad_ SQL at all.

<comment><USER43> _Shocked moviegoers will have been left wondering why a genius-level hacker would outer-join to the Victims and Keywords tables only to use literal-text filter predicates that defeat the outer joins_

Any excuse for this? :)

<comment><USER44> The MySQL optimizer will actually notice and remove the outer join aspect automatically. So I have often done this out of pure laziness if I start with an outer join, but really end up needing an inner join.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> The Swedish police use or at least used MySQL as database solution.

</comment><comment><USER46> Is there a reason why none of the images work?

<comment><USER47> "Bandwidth Limit Exceeded"

<comment><USER48> Umm, sorry about that, wasn't expecting to be ycombinatored :) Fixed now.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER49> i have been always curious about hacking with modern computers,movies just did a little to let more people know that

</comment><comment><USER50> The author could have done something useful instead of this.

<comment><USER51> Likewise. At least I cracked a huge grin reading it, especially at this golden paragraph: "Immediately moviegoers will notice that this can't be Oracle SQL - obviously the AS keyword is not valid for table aliases. In fact as we pull back for a thrilling query results listing we see the mysql prompt and giveaway use [dbname] connect syntax and over-elaborate box drawing."</comment></comment>


A view's responsibility — a lesson on JavaScript and the DOM - <AUTHOR> http://open.bekk.no/a-views-responsibility/ <comment><AUTHOR> The blog appears to be down. You can also read it at [https://github.com/kjbekkelund/writings/blob/master/publishe...](https://github.com/kjbekkelund/writings/blob/master/published/views.md) (I'm the author)

Edit: The blog appears to be up again! Hopefully it'll stay up this time ;)

<comment><USER2> > No frameworks or libraries are needed, just being strict with how you write > your code.

No framework or library is needed, but they help. And at ~5k both Backbone and Spine's DOM-management object (resp. View and Controller) provide exactly the behavior (and shortcuts) you talk about.

<comment><AUTHOR> I know, the point is just showing that the abstractions themselves are quite simple. I've used Backbone on several projects myself. Maybe I'll add a note at the end.

Edit: Added! Thanks. I should absolutely have added that before posting it.

<comment><USER2> > I know, the point is just showing that the abstractions themselves are quite > simple

Aye, absolutely, just wanted to nitpick on that statement: while it is technically true (still the best kind around), it can be... not sure what the word is, not quite misleading but it can cause people to waste time _not_ using a library when a small one would do that job (and others) for them.

It's absolutely great that you clearly documented the "pattern" as it is a vital one to retain one's sanity, it's just that this phrase sounded like an unwarranted objection to libraries doing the exact thing you recommend :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Agree with this on multiple levels, though in practice I find a lot of codebases where views directly call events on passed-in model objects. In simple applications I find the extra level of indirection isn't worth it.

I put together some similar thoughts on client side code organization a while back: <http://happybearsoftware.com/client-side-field-notes.html>

</comment><comment><USER4> I've always wondered why it wasn't possible to send a message to an object directly in Javascript. Here, you need to emit the message for EventEmitter to relay it back to the receiver. Though I guess there are benefits to this model as well, like a more centralized control of the whole flow of execution, possible message translations and composition.

</comment><comment><USER5> I came to the same conclusion awhile back. Also, if it is in any way possible, a view should be able to write its own HTML (the rails worl has a concept of JSTs, not sure if that has filtered out yet), and a view should never insert itself into the dom

What you get is loosely coupled, highly testable (and fast tests, since dom stuff is all in memory) ui code.

<comment><AUTHOR> Absolutely. To focus the blog post I didn't go any further, but I plan (at some point) to write a blog post going deeper into how (I think) views should work.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Is the code meant to have entity characters encodings showing through? Love the post though - very thought provoking!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. Are there still more entity character encodings left? I had a fight with Wordpress and it took some time to get everything working properly.</comment></comment>


U. of California Tries Just Saying No to Rising Journal Costs - <AUTHOR> http://chronicle.com/article/U-of-California-Tries-Just/65823/ <comment><USER2> It's time for major universities and/or research budget granting organizations to join forces and negotiate with these publishing groups to pull down prices and allow for open access.

In this day and age, organizing a new respected online journal is not too hard a task if top researchers in a field agree to work together. An interesting case study is the formation of The Journal of Machine Learning Research, which has become a top journal in computer science and quickly outranked its closed- access competitor, which was the top journal in the field of machine learning.

DARPA, NIH, and the like would be able to force this change to happen very quickly and increase the efficiency of the whole system. I still wonder why they haven't done that so far.

Imagine how much the world would be better if almost all new advances in medical & bio sciences, computer science, and other fields are available to everyone without unnecessary fees.

More details here: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal_of_Machine_Learning_Res...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal_of_Machine_Learning_Research) <http://www.sigir.org/forum/F2001/sigirFall01Letters.html></comment>


A chiptune music composer done via WebAudio API - <AUTHOR> http://chirp.rezoner.net/composer/ Reference information can be found at the following url https://github.com/rezoner/chirp/wiki/Chirp-composer---reference <comment><AUTHOR> A reference can be found at the following url [https://github.com/rezoner/chirp/wiki/Chirp-composer--- refer...](https://github.com/rezoner/chirp/wiki/Chirp-composer---reference)</comment>


How to Make a Bouncing Ball Game for Nintendo DS - <AUTHOR> http://ekid.nintendev.com/bouncy/ <comment><USER2> I didn't realise that DS 2D graphics were so traditional and primitive. I suppose this explains why everything used pixel art: all the sprites were true hardware sprites.

Not that it's a bad thing. Hardware sprite rendering is very efficient, in terms of both speed and power consumption. That's important.

I assume the DS's 3D rendering pipeline is completely different.

<comment><USER3> The DS was designed to be backwards compatible with the GBA, so rather than leave that required hardware to waste, the GBA's CPU was employed as a sound and IO controller, and the GBA's 2D video hardware was mildly enhanced to suit the DS. For the same reason, both the GBA and the DS provided access to the Game Boy's PSG audio channels, and many games (moreso for the GBA) used them alongside their "native" audio hardware for "free" square waves and noise.

The DS's 3D hardware is kinda strange. It only supports point sampling/nearest-neighbor filtering, like a PlayStation, and has an SIMD-like "geometry engine" not unlike it, for calculating matrix transformations and basic vertex lighting, but it unlike the PlayStation, it has a depth buffer, making it significantly easier to program. It has hardware support for cel/"toon" shading, edge/outline rendering, and anti-aliasing, yet only 2048 polygons can be drawn per frame, due to the very limited vertex RAM. It's kinda strange that they'd implement such features on hardware clearly hampered by more pressing issues, but then again, cel-shading with outlines really helps for readability on the low res 256x192 screens.

It's a very interesting combination of primitive and semi-sophisticated elements, being Nintendo's last completely original video hardware before they switched to an off-the-shelf chip with the 3DS. Hilariously underpowered compared to its contemporary, the PSP, that it thoroughly trounced in the marketplace anyway.

<comment><USER4> In some games the models are of pretty high quality but the hardware couldn't keep up so they had to lower the displayed quality.

[https://i.imgur.com/fyFlk4V.png](https://i.imgur.com/fyFlk4V.png)

Left: real NDS

Right: Emulated

<comment><USER3> I was going to include that exact screenshot, but I didn't think the HN crowd would be down with iM@S.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> i thought I'd never live to see devkitpro people (assuming the author of that site is affiliated) promoting a closed source emulator.</comment>


Show HN: A StumbleUpon-like extension for developers - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/basharovV/StumbleUponAwesome <comment><AUTHOR> Hi, author here! You remember StumbleUpon right? It was a great way to discover the internet, and I wanted to bring it back.

I've made the StumbleUponAwesome extension to do just that, by scraping curated lists from GitHub. Click and enjoy awesome random sites on tech and science.

Try it out on Chrome/Brave and give feedback :)</comment>


Facebook Bans Far-Right Groups and Prominent Hate Figures - <AUTHOR> https://digit.fyi/facebook-far-right-ban/ <comment><USER2> I'm sure if Facebook existed in the 18th century people like Benjamin Franklin (not exactly a promoter of diversity, shall we say) and Thomas Paine (politically extreme by the standards of the day) would have been banned for spreading hate and advocating violence or something like that. It's very alarming that they're picking a side. It's one thing to censor violent/hateful speech above some arbitrary threshold but to openly announce you're only going to go censor it when one side does not sit well with me.

<comment><USER3> Many platforms have been doing this. It's likely because the majority of tech folks are left leaning, whether leadership in the company or audience. It's basic marketing.

I'm not sad that some of these really hateful people are blocked, that's a given. But choosing sides is dangerous. Not every conservative is spewing hate speech, in fact many from the left (even celebrities) post what could be considered hate speech.

<comment><USER4> > But choosing sides is dangerous. Not every conservative is spewing hate > speech, in fact many from the left (even celebrities) post what could be > considered hate speech.

I mean, the headline talks about far-right hate groups, and not about conservatives in general. Why is it that a lot of conservatives seem to take it personally when hate groups are banned? I think this victimhood complex is unhealthy. Facebook is not choosing sides by banning hate groups.

<comment><USER3> It's not that conservatives don't want hate groups banned, every reasonable person does. It's because of the ever expanding definition of what hate speech is.

I'm no conservative, but I definitely see their point when "I love America" is hate speech, yet "Straight White Men should die" is not. Look at Twitter as an example.

<comment><USER5> I don't disagree that detecting hate isn't a hard problem. But I also feel it isn't as ambiguous as you make it out to be.

"X loves Y" \- not hate speech.

"X should die" \- hate speech.

Now, context to these could change it. But the question is, can two random person proficient in the same language tell apart similarly the two kinds of speech?

If a human can perform the task with pretty good accuracy, then it's doable.

Now if we're saying that even people can't tell apart hate and violence, we're in more trouble. But as of now, I think it's a pretty strong claim to make that people can't actually decipher hateful tones in text.

<comment><USER6> I think the enforcement is way more imbalanced than you realize.

Here's an example, how about instead of "X should die", it's "lol, can all X just die?". They give it a little jocular spin with the "Lol", but it's effectively the same comment.

Here's the deal: if X in that comment is "black people", you get banned on Twitter. If it's "white people" you don't get banned.

Now personally, I don't mind the comment in either form. I don't believe it's an actual threat to anyone. It's kind of edgelordy, but whichever. And beyond that, I'd be very unhappy if someone got banned for something like that, because it just stomps over whatever other, more legitimate commentary they might've had.

I'm interested in having conversations, even imperfect ones. All conversations are imperfect.

But OK, let's move past "X should die".

But it's not just that. Any discussion where one side can be spun as a vulnerable minority (merit be damned), that minority status can be used to silence the other side.

So for example, consider transwomen in women's sports. There's a not- insignificant push among trans activists to claim that transwomen are "biologically female". I think the logic with that is: 1. sex is fuzzier than most people realize (debatable) and 2. hormone treatments are sufficient to tip someone over the line into the other biological sex (also debatable).

Referring to a trans woman as male for the sake of argument runs you a serious risk of getting permabanned from Twitter if the person you're arguing with is particularly ornery.

<comment><USER5> Hum, you make claims of this will get you banned and this won't. What are those assumptions built on?

I'm not saying it's not the case, I don't use Twitter and don't know their processes.

That said, in my work, we deal with similar scenarios. Normally, you look for trends and you have different levels of enforcement for different risks.

So say you have automated systems doing monitoring which flags and alerts of possible bad behavior. Normally these are scored and categorized. For some score and category, you might take an automatic actions. Say, block the comment from posting at all and tell the user to reword in a non hateful manner their idea. Or you delete the comment. Now these infractions go towards the account. When there's many if them, indicating a trend, it promotes the account for manual review.

At that point, a person does a holistic overview of the account and its infractions. If they can reverse some if them, feeding back into the automated monitoring and alerting to improve its false positive rates, and they can confirm them, to add weight to those labels. Finally, they can choose to contact the account holder to justify themselves, give them a warning, take partial enforcement like deleting certain posts, or outright ban them.

Even the ban has degrees. You could have the account ban, but be allowed to create a new account. Or you can be banned with cross account detection, so your IP, email, address, credit cards etc. are all banned to make it hard for you to even sign up again.

And the processes in place and their rules are constantly adjusted and reevaluated. And there's even backfill mechanisms, so if rules are relaxed in the future, prior enforcement can be reversed if they no longer hold against the new rules for example.

Would you find that if say Facebook or Twitter were to operate in a somewhat similar fashion that it would seem reasonable?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Why only the far-right? What about the far-left? Or the far-center?

Seems to arbitrarily single out the 'hate figures' du juor.

<comment><USER8> Has the far left killed anyone lately?

Edit: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States#2010%E2%80%93present)

<comment><USER9> ...on April 18 [2017], Kori Ali Muhammad, a 39-year-old African-American man, was arrested and charged with killing three people in a shooting in Fresno, California. Police said they believed race was a factor in the murders and Muhammad's social media presence included Black Nationalist posts. Muhammad's father said his son believed he was part of a war between whites and blacks and that "a battle was about to take place."

<comment><USER10> How is that far-left?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Finally - they may one day realize the is a difference between freedom of speech and freedom to spread lies.

<comment><USER12> Lies are free speech, and protected as such. Only threats and statements made to intimidate are 'nor free speech'. Censorship is censorship, even when the recipient is an unrepentant asshole.

<comment><USER13> And who defines "hate speech" and how do we know we'll still agree with them tomorrow?

I realize that this is specifically talking about UK groups and that even in the US the 1st only applies to the government and not to any private person or entity, but it amazes me how many people complain about the massive amount of information Facebook has about them, complain about how Facebook has misused or sold that data, and then complain that Facebook hasn't banned someone they find offensive.

Communication has become insanely centralized in recent years. Facebook can't be trusted to have or use your information, but you're fine with them being the free speech police?

<comment><USER14> >Communication has become insanely centralized in recent years. Facebook can't be trusted to have or use your information, but you're fine with them being the free speech police?

I talked with some friends at the weekend over pints. We didn't need facebook to act as a middleman.

I don't need facebook to stand on soapbox either.

This hasn't changed.

<comment><USER13> Absolutely. Unfortunately the rest of the world has and now I'm a million miles away from my friends in a country that doesn't speak the same language and there's this great thing called the internet that makes it feel like I'm not so far away anymore...

This is why the internet was invented and why there were free and open protocols invented to communicate using it. Unfortunately then AOL and AIM started and it was downhill after that... now we all rely on Facebook or Google or Twitter to relay our messages and that's not great for anyone.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Facebook says: "Individuals and organisations who spread hate, or attack or call for the exclusion of others on the basis of who they are, have no place on Facebook. Under our dangerous individuals and organisations policy, we ban those who proclaim a violent or hateful mission or are engaged in acts of hate or violence"

Now, as long as they keep to that, and steer away from partisanery, I think this is a good thing.

There's probably going to be some mistakes made, and some wrong bans, but Facebook is not the government, and other avenues exist to individuals who want to speak and reach an audience.

</comment><comment><USER15> Thoughts on the wisdom of deplatforming contrary (or even violent) views aside, I find it interesting that this seems to be fairly narrowly targeted toward UK actors.

I live in a town known for its racial history, and there are two very vocal men here who are leaders of SPLC-listed hate groups. I just checked, and both still have active personal accounts. The only people I can think of off the top of my head who are more visible in those circles in the US would be Jason Kessler and David Duke.

Perhaps this action was motivated by political pressure in the UK?

</comment><comment><USER16> Well at least the far right groups will be safe from having their emails harvested by marketers and criminals.

</comment><comment><USER17> Does anyone have the link to the original Facebook source?

</comment><comment><USER18> Friendly reminder that this is not a violation of free speech. [https://xkcd.com/1357/](https://xkcd.com/1357/)

This is actually censorship. However, I personally believe that groups that incite violence should be censored.

<comment><USER19> It's not a violation of a US constitutional right to free speech, insofar as the Constitution restricts or guarantees against government actions.

But when people talk about free speech it is not limited merely to constitutional rights, especially in an age where most communication happens in platforms under some company or another's direct control.

<comment><USER14> It's a group of nazis based in the UK, the US constitution isn't relevant either way.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Facebook are a private company; they can remove whatever material they want from their platform. Comments about free speech laws are misinformed: you would be allowed to delete whatever comments you wanted from your own blog.

Having said that, I don't like the idea that some people at Facebook decide what's "spreading hate" or not. Are they banning extreme left wing groups too or not? Imagine Facebook was a company from China, Russia or the Middle East, where those governments could pressure them a lot more. Imagine the small group of people deciding what is "spreading hate" today leave the company and some political ideologies take over that position a few years down the line. Do we trust their judgement as much now?

</comment><comment><USER21> I think social media does far better when it isn't political media. One of the reasons HN and LinkedIn are the only two forms of social media I personally use today is exactly the fact that the absence of politics on both platforms make them tolerable.

The internet and politics in general seem to be a truly bad combination. I think it's understandable too, because it's just so much easier to say radical hurtful stuff when you don't have to witness the devastating effect of your words in person. I mean, can you even imagine calling the parent, of a child who was mass-murdered, out to be an actor paid by George Soros face to face? You would have to be stone cold dead inside to do that, and I really doubt a lot of the alt-righters are that evil. On the internet though, it's as easy as ordering a pizza.

I think platforms should be held accountable for the content they host, even if it's produced by their users. I know that's not a popular opinion on HN, but the fact is that Facebook has been used to organise genocide and that just shouldn't happen.

<comment><USER3> I blame the internet for much of why politics is the way it is today. This is why I too like HN, it doesn't seem to take a side, as far as I can tell and I can ignore most political stuff if I want.</comment></comment>


Google tweaked algorithm after rise in US shootings - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jul/02/google-tweaked-algorithm-after-rise-in-us-shootings <comment><USER2> Is there any way to know this is being used only in positive-to-society ways? When Google has a near monopoly, is them having the ability to selectively censor or hide content and basically 'form' society's thoughts not something to be concerned about?

</comment><comment><USER3> My first guess would be "authoritative" ranking ignores $$profit$$ when assembling results, that means counteracting effects of certain videos(viral, clickbaity, "hot" controversial topics, designed to rail you on/shock) being pushed in recommendations and forgets all the autoplayed "up next" clips, only counting organic conscious traffic (clicks in subscription, search tab and from external sources). TLDR it overlooks usual YT manipulation techniques designed to make you keep clicking/watching ads. I wish I as a user could manually trigger this hidden ranking on my search queries.</comment>


HBO Inks Exclusive, 10-Year Deal With Universal - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2013/01/06/hbo-inks-exclusive-deal-with-universal-to-keep-content-out-of-netflixs-hands/

<comment><USER3> Either Universal is stupid or HBO is planning to change its business model. Or likely both. Watching TV on television channels is dying; people don't want to subscribe to cable anymore, and their is no reason they should.

I just went to HBO's website to try to sign up for their streaming service -- you can't. You can only get streaming service with a cable or satellite subscription. I don't own a TV. A few years ago I tried convince Comcast to let me pay for cable television without having a TV, because I wanted access to all the streaming content online -- they wouldn't let me. Comcast insisted that they needed to install a cable box, I told them I don't have a TV, can't I just pay for the service, no a technician needs to come out and install a cable box. It's pathetic.

To see how behind the times HBO is just go to hbo.com. For me it was a blank black screen for 10 seconds. Then a Flash loading animation for 5 seconds. And finally the site loaded. The entire site is done in Flash, without Flash there isn't a shred of content. It's pathetic.

<comment><USER4> Why are any of them stupid? They hold the ultimate card. They own and produce the content. Universal sold their content to the highest bidder, which was HBO. HBO sells their content (and their own) to the highest bidder, which are cable/satellite companies. Does Netflix, Amazon, Apple, et al. have the current scale and reach to justify outbidding Cable?

There's a tendency for tech geeks to be armchair television/movie execs and it doesn't amount to much other than uninformed fantasy because they lack perspective outside their own self-interest.

And for some this leads to the faulty rationalization that this justifies piracy (as I've already started to see here). But this is little more than entitlement, because watching Game of Thrones isn't a right.

<comment><USER3> It's stupid because it is short sighted. Media companies continually try to stop new technology, like TV and VHS, because they are scared and unwilling to evolve. Only to find out a decade after trying to stop the technology that they are actually making more money with the new tech.

A 10 year exclusive with content locked into cable or satellite subscriptions short sighted, they are trying to stop the future. A future which will ultimately cost them less, leading to more profit.

Ten years is a long time; 10 years ago the iTunes store didn't exist, 14 years ago HBO had never broadcast in HD, 12 years ago the iPod didn't exist, 6 years ago the iPhone didn't exist, 6 years ago Netflix streaming didn't exist, 6 years ago Hulu didn't exist, 5 years ago Android didn't exist.

Ten years from now the technology landscape and the way we consume media will be vastly different. Locking into a 10 year deal and trying to fight technology is stupid [in my opinion, because everything I say in inherently my opinion].

<comment><USER4> It's not short sighted. I know it has become a meme for tech geeks to paint industries like content/media as "out of touch" or "dinosaurs", but they aren't. They aren't trying to stop the future, they just want to make the most money. Right now 'the future' isn't capable of delivering that to them. But when it can, content companies will gladly be there. They aren't going to be disrupted because of these deals, which seems to be a common opinion among the tech community. To think so is to misunderstand their business and the large moat that exists around it.

Your gripe (and other tech geeks') is really about middle-men, and your preferred middle-man isn't in the position to give you what you want. Some of them, like Apple, are negotiating to do just that and they may be successful if the value proposition to content companies is greater than it is now. Middle-men may disrupt other middle-men, but content companies are going to be fine.

<comment><USER3> Ten years. For 10 years they are going to be locked into the language of that contract. Here is an example of what contracts like this get you:

The NFL has an online streaming service. It's only for replays of games after they have been broadcast live on TV. Fine, ok, they signed some contacts giving TV networks exclusive live broadcast, so we can't watch live online. But then it starts to get crazy. Their online service is unavailable on Sunday and Monday nights! Huh?! Yes, some executive signed a contract giving TV networks exclusive rights to NFL broadcasts on Sunday and Monday night, so you aren't allowed to watch _replays of other games_ on those nights. I understand the NFL makes its money with those contracts, but stupid language in those contracts prevents other revenue streams that short sighted executive can't predict.

When you heard that the Olympics where going to be available on YouTube did you get excited and try to watch? Oh, you don't pay for cable? Sorry, to watch the Olympics on YouTube you had to authorize through your cable company. Why? Because the Olympics gave NBC an exclusive contract in the US. Until 2020. You won't be able to watch the Olympics streaming online without a cable or satellite subscription until 2024. Deals like that are short sighted.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Oh great... just what we consumers need - content locked into a bunch of exclusive deals on various platforms. I can understand that there might be a good business reason for this deal, but it sucks for consumers who are willing to pay for content, but do not want half a dozen content distribution platforms in their home.

<comment><USER6> You can't even get HBO content if you aren't a cable/dish subscriber. I would seriously consider paying for their content, but they refuse to sell it to me and there is no way I'm going back to paying $100+/month to have 500 junk channels in my house.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Exclusive content: turning fans into pirates, one movie at a time.

<comment><USER8> At this rate, I see absolutely no reason to stop pirating. I started it because I was in high school, didn't have money, and didn't have my own TV, so I'd torrent shows and watch them on my desktop.

But now, even though I have a TV, I have no reason to get cable even though I can afford it. I don't watch any sports and I read my news online. I already know how to torrent, have private tracker accounts, and an HTPC to watch torrented shows on my TV. Unless the cable industry comes up with an a la carte, on-demand, ad-free model, I'm just not interested. It's too easy to pirate.

<comment><USER9> "Unless the cable industry comes up with an a la carte, on-demand, ad-free model, I'm just not interested. It's too easy to pirate."

Well aren't you just a god damned Saint? With an attitude like that I can't believe content holders aren't bending over backwards to make you happy!

<comment><USER8> "Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem" - <USER2> Newell

I'm willing to pay, but the product I want is not available. I pay for my video games because Steam is such a great experience.

<comment><USER9> Bullshit. I can start streaming Avengers from iTunes in 1080p with 5.1 audio in under 30 seconds. It couldn't be any easier. With an AppleTV I can do that in my home theater. Amazon also has video on demand options. So does Xbox amongst many others.

If you want to be a selfish twat and not pay for any content then so be it. You'd hardly be alone. Just don't add lying to your list of sins.

<comment><USER10> Maybe you missed the part where Universal's content _will not be available on iTunes, Amazon, Netflix, Xbox, Playstation, etc._ until after HBO is done with it.

<comment><USER9> It didn't say that because that's not how it works. This is an extension of an existing deal. Universal content is already available for rent/purchase on iTunes and that isn't changing. New releases will continue to be on iTunes ala carte. What you won't see is that content available as part of a non-HBO streaming subscription service.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I'm waiting with my popcorn in hand for some people to get pissed off and start a "revolutionary" movement to bring down mainstream media companies' attempts to hold on to their outdated business models with guerilla tactics. It will be called the RLO which stands for the Redditors Liberation Army. Sad part? I'm not even kidding...

</comment><comment><USER12> How much is Netflix worth nowadays? If HBO can spend $2 billion on a single deal, wouldn't Netflix be a smart buy for them? It'd be one less company that they need to compete with in content bids. I guess I could see their relationship with cable souring a bit, but at least they'd have Netflix to fall back on?

<comment><USER13> HBO is a subsidiary of Time Warner. It is understandable why HBO has declined to sell its content on-demand independent of cable subscriptions. It would be interesting if it were spun off.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> If HBO can turn away from cable, and either go independent or partner with someone like Amazon, Apple, Netflix, or.. pfft, everyone, this could be interesting. That is probably hugely wishful thinking, though.

Edit: Then again, they're already offering standalone service in parts of Europe.

<comment><USER15> All HBO has to do is open "HBO Go" to non-cable subscribers, and they'd get a flood of takers.

But they still make too much money of cable subscriptions to do that, so we have to wait for the tipping point when cable becomes a drag on HBO vs the boon it is today.

<comment><USER16> HBO actually offers this in other countries than the US, the Nordics for example. HBO Nordic gets content as soon as it has aired, so they are aiming to beat piracy with instant availability for $12/mo. Just not in the US yet.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> We really need an ASCAP/BMI for video.

</comment><comment><USER18> Everybody has to get their 10 buck slice a month, and I guess $100 for the cable too.

</comment><comment><USER19> "exclusive" and "10 years" are two things that should never be together in a single sentence.</comment>


Sub-reddit misspells name of site's deceased co-founder - <AUTHOR> http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/16hzpx/on_the_death_of_aaron_schwartz/

<comment><USER2> OP comments further down "My mistake was from double-checking myself with my local paper which made the same mistake. The error is the post is mine alone, and no disrespect is intended."

I don't think this is a big deal.

<comment><AUTHOR> It's a big deal in that it hasn't been corrected yet. It looks like a diss.

<comment><USER3> It has been corrected in the content of the post and reddit doesn't let you edit the title of a post.</comment></comment></comment>


Conway notation - <AUTHOR> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway_notation_(knot_theory) <comment><USER2> Got to love the number of fascinating things that carry Conways name.

I was searching for an interesting way to generate polyhedra and came across Conway Operators: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway_polyhedron_notation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway_polyhedron_notation)

The results can be pretty awesome: [http://elfnor.com/conway-polyhedron- operators-in-sverchok.ht...](http://elfnor.com/conway-polyhedron-operators-in- sverchok.html) (not my code)

I've got a Unity based "toy" underway utilizing this. I'm currently struggling with adding a UI - mainly because that's the hardest and least interesting aspect of it to me :-(

[https://github.com/Ixxy-Open-Source/wythoff- polyhedra](https://github.com/Ixxy-Open-Source/wythoff-polyhedra)

(The base contruction method is this: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wythoff_construction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wythoff_construction) \- the Conway operators are then used to further add complexity. I'm not sure if I can generate all the uniform polyhedra purely using Conway operators...)

</comment><comment><USER3> Another very interesting notation/mathematical language from John Conway and William Thurston is for talking about symmetry.

Highly recommend The Symmetries of Things:

[https://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1568812205/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?i...](https://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1568812205/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1522573416&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=the+symmetries+of+things&dpPl=1&dpID=51cqfSTNJrL&ref=plSrch)

</comment><comment><USER4> It wasn't entirely clear from the wiki page, but can this notation be used to describe every type of tangled shape, including those such as the twisted proteins folding@home attempts to untangle?

<comment><USER5> My understanding of knot theory is pretty limited, but very few proteins are topologically different from a straight line—while there are lots of wiggles back and forth, if you pulled really hard on the ends, you would in most cases have no knots in it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Related video: [https://youtu.be/JXGyXtNsu14](https://youtu.be/JXGyXtNsu14)

</comment><comment><USER7> Did a little knot theory research in college too. But with Dowker notation.

</comment><comment><USER8> seriously, is he a polymath.</comment>


Firefly for ios beta - share photos and videos with friends - <AUTHOR> http://findfirefly.com/

<comment><USER2> What the world was missing was an app to share photos and videos with friends. I know I don't have enough of those on my iPhone.

I'm glad that RealNetworks has come through with this entry into an exciting and innovative market.</comment>


Your Bash Prompt Needs This - <AUTHOR> http://jonisalonen.com/2012/your-bash-prompt-needs-this/ <comment><USER2> I used to do this in my prompt, but it caused more problems than it solved, since sometimes programs actually put legitimate output on the last line without a terminator.

The simpler fix is just to notice that your prompt has shifted over (it's almost impossible not to notice) and just hit return before doing anything.

<comment><USER3> I added a newline (\n) to the beginning of my prompt. This way I never lose program output -- and also it's easier to see where previous commands begin and end in the scrollback buffer.

<comment><USER2> You also get tons of blank lines, right? That would annoy the heck out of me.

<comment><USER4> My prompt is five lines tall, including three blank lines. I did that, along with some bright green coloring, to make the prompt easier to spot as I rapidly scroll up through a mountain of output from my last command.

zsh prompt:

PROMPT='

%{$prompt_default_color%} %~ %* %{${fg[$prompt_user]}%}%n%{$prompt_default_color%}@%{${fg[$prompt_host]}%}%M%{$prompt_default_color%} ${vcs_info_msg_0_}_

$ %{${fg[default]}%}'

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Alternative - use zsh which doesn't suffer from this. (or from deleting lines with no line terminator - it inserts it's own "%" sign with inverted colour and a \n when that happens)

<comment><USER6> +1. I don't really understand why you wouldn't use zsh, or something more powerful than bash.

<comment><USER7> Because bash is the standard on Linux and every component you add introduces additional complexity and instability. It's fine to add stuff to your home machine, but you need to be careful with adding things to a server or a work environment. Bash is good enough for almost everything.

<comment><USER8> Find me a real world case where switching from bash to zsh was a bad idea.

<comment><USER9> Well, I switched from csh to zsh and almost got arrested.

While a senior in high school (~15 years ago), I was also enrolled at the local university and taking a few 1000- and 2000-level Math and CS courses. About halfway into the spring semester, my account on the CS department's crusty old Sun box was locked, and my CS professor that semester told me to report to the system administrator's office after class.

When I arrived at the system administrator's office, the department's system administrator and the department head were waiting for me. The sysadmin immediately (and angrily) said that if this were anywhere but a university, he'd see that I was thrown in jail. When I asked what he was talking about, he turned to his computer, banged on the keyboard for a bit, and turned the massive CRT so I could read it.

On his screen was an e-mail I had sent him the semester before asking that he change my shell from /bin/csh to /usr/local/bin/zsh. (Solaris of that vintage didn't have chsh, so I couldn't do it myself.)

The sysadmin was absolutely convinced that zsh gave me "elevated system privileges", even though he was the one that changed my passwd entry and presumably was the one who compiled and installed zsh in the first place.

When I argued that /usr/local/bin/zsh didn't have the suid or sgid bits and therefore gave me no more access to the system than any other shell, the department head scolded me for arguing with the (experienced, wise) sysadmin.

The sysadmin changed my shell back to csh, and the department head made me sign a document stating that I wouldn't change my shell back to zsh or try to "further gain administrative access" to the system.

On the drive home, I idly wondered whether going to (a different!) college full-time in the fall was really such a hot idea...

<comment><USER10> With the caveat that you should always pick your battles...

You should have never signed that. Even if you struck the word "further", it'd probably be seen as an admission of guilt in court.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> What if a program prints text without a newline at the end, then exits? It's possible and it would be confusing to not see that last line.

        cout >> "Hello world"; // with no endl.

Prepending the prompt with a new line might be a better idea than over-writing the current line.

<comment><USER12> Yes. I have a two line bash prompt: the first line with a whole bunch of info like the exit status of the last command, the number of background jobs, the hostname, current username (very useful when you have 5 different ssh sessions to different machines), and the current working directory. In real world usage I have experienced almost no loss of utility from only having 50% of my command history on screen. In fact, given how many commands are just ls,whoami,jobs,pwd, that info gets condensed into one line.

<comment><USER13> Cool! Do you mind posting your PS1 so other people can try out your config?

<comment><USER12> Here's the PS1:

      PS1="\[\e[32;1m\]\[\e[37;1m\]\`if [ \$? = 0 ]; then echo \[\e[33m\] :\)\[\e[0m\]; else echo \[\e[31m\] X\(\[\e[0m\]; fi\`\[\e[32;1m\] \[\e[32;1m\](\[\e[37;1m\]\h:\u\[\e[32;1m\])-(\[\e[37;1m\]\j\[\e[32;1m\])-(\[\e[37;1m\]\w\[\e[32;1m\])\n\[\e[0m\]"

Here's how it appears:

       :) (seas456:narayana)-(0)-(~/personal)
      [this line is where your cursor blinks; notice no symbol at the start of this line]

You can't see the colors here. The smiley face turns into a bright red frowny face if the exit code of the last job is nonzero.

<comment><USER14> It looks like the your markup got mangled a little. Would you mind posting a gist?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Put a blank line at the beginning of your PS1 instead. This has the added benefit of clearly separating every command. My PS1 actually is this:

      rpatterson@rpatterson-tba 04/27/2012 01:24 PM ~
      $

This gives me a full row to type a command, and lets me see how long ago the last command finished. Each of those components is bold and colored differently.

<comment><USER16> I do this too. It helps me to have a blank line between invocations of different commands.

        [prakash@kaveri 16:39:05 ~ :) ]
        >> sleep 10
        ^C

        [prakash@kaveri 16:39:18 ~ :( ]

<comment><USER17> So...your interrupted 'sleep 10' took 13 seconds?

<comment><USER15> No, the time between when the first PS1 was printed and when he pressed ^C was approximately 13 seconds.

<comment><USER17> Of course, my bad.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Nitpick - shouldn't it be

        PS1="\[\033[G\]$PS1"

instead of

        $PS1="\[\033[G\]$PS1"

<comment><USER19> Yes, you are correct. I think it's better than nitpicking when it makes the code run correctly.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> I honestly cannot replicate either of these behaviors, even using the OS X Terminal application (which definitely causes serious cursor synchronization issues with complex prompts due to incorrect terminal emulation: use iTerm2 instead), and even using an old version of bash (tested on both Linux and OS X).

A) When I hit ^C, I am always seeing a newline occur after the ^C and before my prompt is redrawn. I have tried this with cat (blocked on read) and ssh (blocked on password).

B) When I purposely attempt to cause this (using echo -n and interpreting "a very long command" to mean "long enough that it wrapped to the next line"), hitting up redraws and overwrites part of the prompt in order to guarantee that the position of the prompt will edit correctly.

<comment><USER14> I have had this problem before, usually when using a repl that gets abnormally terminated. I don't know exactly what causes it and I haven't been able to replicate it deliberately. Long commands alone don't seem to trigger it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Seems like ^L usually clears things up when this happens.

<comment><USER22> That's what I came to post. Yes, the terminal gets mixed up because it handled input that bash didn't see. And that's annoying (really it's a bug, just one so ancient no one is interested in fixing it anymore).

But terminal corruption used to be far more common (line noise, etc...) and bash has a built-in escape for this. Ctrl-L (chosen for the analogy with form- feed/"vertical tab" on a printer) will blank the screen and redraw your current edit environment at the top.

<comment><USER23> I don't see it as a bug; the shell shouldn't get to see what was written to the terminal?

BTW, it's the readline library that handles the Ctrl-L key binding to clear the screen rather than bash per se.

        $ bind -p | grep '\\C-l'
        "\C-l": clear-screen
        $

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> All too often, this "erases" legitimate output. I just prefix my prompt with a \n, personally.

</comment><comment><USER25> Recently, I have really wished for a "better terminal". Particularly as my number of processors go up, I want to be able to start a program in the background and not have it's output all over the screen. I've tried various solutions (redirect to temp file -- have to remember where it is, keep starting new tmux sessions, end up with too many windows most of which I don't want). I feel there should be something better. Personally, I take a GUI solution, where programs look more like a tree, and I can easily explore / close / duplicate branches.

<comment><USER26> Have you tried gnu screen? It isn't a gui interface, so you have to learn a few hotkeys, but it's one of the better options.

<comment><USER25> tmux is similar to screen. I can keep opening hotkeys to open new windows to run commands in, but then I have to remember to go back to those windows to look at the results of those commands, etc.

It doesn't really help me "maximise my processor usage" I find.

<comment><USER26> So what you are saying is you want a more powerful version of regular shell background capabilities? You don't want output to interrupt your interactive session, but you don't want to have to _remember_ to visit the output later.

Do I have this right?

<comment><USER25> I think so. I might not know what I want until I have it, or don't have it :)

I just went through the following steps recently:

1) Put more things in the background with '&' - but if they have a lot of output they make your terminal usuable.

2) I could ' >t 2&>1 & ' , but then I have to remember to check t when the process finishes, and end up with lots of tiny files everywhere.

3) I could just send output to /dev/null , but then maybe I care what it was if the process fails.

<comment><USER17> Sounds like #2 could work if you had some sort of desktop notification system. Then you could write a small script that runs your command line with stdout and stderr redirected to temp file(s), and then alerts you when the process is done, and what the temp filenames are. You could check on your running jobs with 'ps -C scriptname'

Or maybe opens them in $EDITOR...like this (I can't get it to work when $* has a pipe in it, unfortunately)

        #!/bin/bash
        out1=`tempfile -d $HOME/logs`
        out2=`tempfile -d $HOME/logs`
        $* >$out1 2>$out2
        $EDITOR $out1 $out2 # Replace this with call to notification app and/or logic based on $?/size of $out2

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> zsh is relatively large compared to bash. and bash is large compared to sh, rc, tcsh, etc. if there are space and memory constraints, size is relevant.

the path to "user-friendly" shell nirvana (i.e. interactive use, not scripts) can be achieved through use of a library like editline, without installing a huge, "kitchen sink" package like zsh... if size is an issue. make the shell cmd line behave like the editor you know well.

</comment><comment><USER28> Post says $PS1="\\[\033[G\\]$PS1"

But the first $ is wrong, it should read PS1="\\[\033[G\\]$PS1"

<comment><USER29> Even

        export PS1="\[\033[G\]$PS1"

<comment><USER30> I don't think exporting PS1 is a good idea. Child processes don't need it and if I launch a different shell with different PS1 semantics I get a broken prompt instead of whatever the default for that shell is.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Even better, if you want to edit a long command, use C-x C-e (remember to have EDITOR set to your editor of choice).

<comment><USER32> I never knew this, this is absolutely going to be a timesaver!

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> Sorry, I think it's a problem not worth solving; it's helpful to know this has occurred by the state the screen is in. If you want to solve it correctly then, since it's also common to have the cursor left bereft in the middle of a screen of text,

        PS1='\['"$(tput cr)$(tput ed)"'\]$ '

is better since it clears to the end of the screen, e.g. try

        seq 1000 | fmt; tput cup 10 20

with and without it.

But the thing is, with either that approach or the one in the article, you're wiping out what may be useful; that unfinished line causing PS1 to be pushed along may have vital data on it, data that's hard to re-create.

</comment><comment><USER33> In my past experience, prompt/history corruption is quite often due to missing/incorrect use of \\[ and \\] around all the non-printing sequences (colours, formatting, etc), which cause Bash to compute the length of the prompt incorrectly, and cause redrawing woes.

Worth double-checking, anyway. I've occasionally pondered some sort of prompt- lint/validator given the reams of dubious examples out there, and problems people face when customising their own.

</comment><comment><USER34> I just do most of my bash work in emacs shell mode.

<comment><USER35> me too for a couple months now - there are a lot of rough edges - any tips? i have serious prompt issues, i have intermittently malformed colors. is your configuration on github?

turns out i'm willing to tolerate a lot of pain to have emacs operations in a shell buffer, haha

<comment><USER36> What kind of prompt issues do you have? I've set my Emacs up so that each shell has a prompt in the form name:directory> where name is the buffer name and directory is the current directory, and both name and directory are in different colors, and it all works well.

As far as colors go, shell mode does its own highlighting. I used to have problems with ANSI code colors, but they have been working properly recently. (I just tried ls --color=always which worked as expected, unexpectedly.)

Which version of Emacs are you on?

Note that this is all without any configuration. The only thing I did was add a command for opening a new shell in the current directory which turned out to be _extremely_ useful. It even works for remote files, so now I use shell mode for almost everything.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> This has a side-effect that I don't like. Python's virtualenv, once activated, places the string '(venv)' (assuming you named it 'venv') immediately before your prompt to let you know that it is active in this terminal. However, this export hides this modification, and it makes it difficult for me tell whether the venv is active or not.

<comment><USER3> Personally I do not use virtualenv activation. Instead I prefer to explicitly launch Python and/or scripts with bin/python, bin/scriptname etc., either with my current working directory in the virtualenv, or by creating a symlink ./bin -> .virtualenv/bin in the project root.

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> Couldn't you just hit enter after hitting control-C to bring up a new prompt below the one with the ^C in it?

</comment><comment><USER39> One could comment the "very long command" with # and it would appear in the history... no hacks.

<comment><USER40> this is hotkeyed to Meta-# by default

(one of the readline features i rediscover every three months or so and promptly forget)

<comment><USER39> Tested and it works brilliantly... it's definitely faster than C-a # RET... Thanks for the tip.

<comment><USER40> it's fully customizable too. e.g. if you work in a LISP REPL and use rlwrap to provide readline functionality, you could put this in your ~/.inputrc:

        $if lisp
                set comment-begin ;
                M-;: insert-comment
        $endif

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> <http://tldp.org/LDP/LGNET/122/lg_tips.html>

I set mine to standard for successful output "[user@host:truncated path]$ ".

Having my shell smile at me all the time makes me think it's up to something.

</comment><comment><USER42> Hmm, I don't have this issue. Perhaps because I use a two-line prompt?

        export PS1="\n\W\$(parse_git_branch) $ "

        parse_git_branch() { git branch 2> /dev/null | sed -e '/^[^*]/d' -e 's/* \(.*\)/(\1)/'; }

<comment><USER43> You use a custom git parse branch, while git has a much more powerful prompt function : __git_ps1 . It's readily available in git's default bash_completion.d file. It shows the current branch, but also the state of the git tree (during rebase, am, bisecting, cherry-picking, etc.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER44> When I see this, I tend to automatically hit Ctrl+L to clear the screen and re-position the prompt. Quick and easy. I scroll up if I need to study the output further.

</comment><comment><USER45> I don't have this problem (even though I don't use bash) since the first character in my prompt is a newline. I think it makes things easier to read in general.

</comment><comment><USER46> I've always found putting $? handy. This is the exit status of the last command, and when non-zero means the program wasn't successful or encountered an error.

</comment><comment><USER47> or you just configure a two line prompt (with a \n).

<comment><USER48> That means a blank line after most commands' output, and I find that unsightly.

Is there any way of getting bash to only output a '\n' if the cursor isn't already at the start of a line?

<comment><USER49> Recommendation: Try it for a week or so, and you may not go back. I've found it to be helpful to have more space between commands.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> Why isn't the last line in shells dedicated only to the prompt? The commands' output could scroll in the remaining lines.

</comment><comment><USER51> alternate solution using readline: set echo-control-characters Off

</comment><comment><USER52> When you use this in your prompt this will not show any result

$ echo -n foo bar

</comment><comment><USER53> wouldn't typing 'reset' fix this?

<comment><USER54> Or just hitting enter to get a new line - this is trying to make a more permanent solution to this common issue.

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> zob ~ ⚡ bob^C

zob ~ ⚡ cat

^C zob ~ ⚡

default bash settings real termina, like xterm this is bash of course.

and its better than ^C is not erased.

<comment><USER20> Can you say more about the testing configuration you are using? With OS X 10.6.8, xterm 251, bash 3.2.48(1), and with no .bashrc, and after trying to set my PS1 to match yours (failing, as the lightning bolt came up as an o with an umlaut), I get the following behavior for the same test:

        saurik ~ ö bob
        saurik ~ ö cat
        ^C
        saurik ~ ö

<comment><USER55> your term looks ok im using linux and konsole bash 4.2.24(2)-release

the lightning bolt is just an utf8 fancy char

this is my PS1 if you like it: \\[\e[0;32m\\]\u\\[\e[m\\] \\[\e[1;34m\\]\w\\[\e[m\\] \\[\e[1;33m\\]⚡\\[\e[m\\] \\[\e[1;37m\\]

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER56> greate

</comment><comment><USER57> anyway, who's using bash nowadays? there's zsh...

</comment><comment><USER58> Very helpful tip! Thanks for posting.</comment>


How To Develop a PCB on a Low Budget - <AUTHOR> http://pandoralive.info/?p=2834

<comment><USER2> If you were hoping for tips on where to actually get a cheap PCB made check out OSH Park [https://oshpark.com/](https://oshpark.com/) They are really good for a high quality 2 or 4 layer small run PCB. SparkFun.com used to run their own service batchpcb.com but they sold to OSH Park recently. Also if you are in Europe Fritzing Fab [http://fab.fritzing.org/fritzing- fab](http://fab.fritzing.org/fritzing-fab) is supposed to be pretty good.

<comment><USER3> I love OSH Park. Their boards are very high quality and their design rules allow for some small traces, spaces, annular rings, and drills. Small relative to other batch-based and small-volume services, anyway... the limits are still a little too big for properly escaping common BGA packages, which is the hurdle I'm trying to overcome right now.

<comment><USER4> BGA packages are definitely a pain in the ass. Especially highly dense BGAs, which probably require more than 4 layers.

Assuming you have the PCB manufactured, would you assemble the components yourself? I recall being quoted higher for BGA components at a PCB assembly service because they needed to X-ray each BGA for inspection.

<comment><USER5> Yes, probably better to assemble the components yourself. It's much more expensive to get it done for you. I have no issues hand soldering 0805 or 0603 surface mount parts (for non-production), and an oven is equally as easy after a few tries. Even getting an SMT placement machine to do the work would be cheaper than dealing with BGA.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> As a (very recent, after a loong delay) Open Pandora owner, I appreciate the skill and almost manic relentlessness that these people (especially EvilDragon) have, and that clearly goes into this project too. Good luck!

On a more technical note, it's ... fascinating with a scent of just plain scary that they're using a MIPI display. I have some experience in that field, and MIPI seems to mix with open hardware right about as well as lithium mixes with water. Have fun. :/

<comment><AUTHOR> What is your experience with MIPI exactly? what kind problems did you face?

<comment><USER7> It's a closed standard and nearly impossible to debug on the physical level unless you have patience and serious equipment. While many fast buses are notoriously difficult to debug, most are pretty common and have ubiquitous tools. Not so with MIPI. Also, the specific MIPI transceiver implementations I worked with were premature crap.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> And this is what we built so the world can get their PCB components super easily: [http://www.sandsquid.com](http://www.sandsquid.com)

<comment><USER8> That is really cool. I just went through an example. At first, I thought you gathered all the parts together and sent them to the users, but I guess you actually end up providing links with the orders at various sites. I don't have logins at those sites, but I'm assuming it shows up populated with the list of parts. So (assuming this is to make money), do you use referral (affiliate) codes to make money from the site?

<comment><USER7> Glad you liked it! Right now we're only spending money - no revenue whatsoever. Some of the component distributors listed offered to advertise with us, but we passed (to keep Sandsquid clean and impartial).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I thought it to be really cool!

At my university, we do something similar with having a core CPU board, and then another main board with all the actual components, like dials, an LCD screen, temp sensors, a speaker and so on.

This also reminds me of the whole phone blocks thing, with pluggable components.</comment>


BBC and ITV in Talks over Netflix Rival - <AUTHOR> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47383559 <comment><USER2> Yet another subscription, yet another proprietary app with dubious permission requirements to be installed on (supported) devices

Oh the joy</comment>