Eric Brewer on Why Banks Are BASE Not ACID – Availability Is Revenue (2013) - <AUTHOR> http://highscalability.com/blog/2013/5/1/myth-eric-brewer-on-why-banks-are-base-not-acid-availability.html <comment><USER3> Interesting article, but it's really talking about ATM networks rather than the broader "banks". A bank's core systems could still hugely benefit from having an ACID compliant database even if any individual ATM node could still be allowed to operate independent for some amount of time to maximize availability.

Consistency is a feature whose importance is regularly downplayed by hawkers of NoSQL databases. I've seen firsthand what happens when a NoSQL database scales out and it's not pretty — a significant number of people end up spending a significant amount of their time trying to figure out how to maintain data integrity across failures in the system, even the kind of minor failures that are occurring every day. A lot of the time that involves going in and cleaning up data _by hand_. There is no general solution for this problem, and it'll be a persistent operational tax that dogs you as long as your NoSQL database stays in use.

<comment><USER4> No the article uses ATMs as an example but the general accounting principals apply regardless. Consider paper checks or IOUs. Humanity literally has thousands of years doing eventual financial consistency while ACID compliance has only existed for the last 50 or so.

I'm not saying ACID isn't good (or that NoSQL is a panacea) but we have long had exceedingly successful financial systems without ACID.

<comment><USER5> Define "successful financial systems"

<comment><USER4> Every bank that existed before 1960 starting with ancient Greek temple depositories all the way through the first "official" banks of 12th century Venice.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> It is easy to laugh at Bitcoin but with Bitcoin you can send $15 from New Jersey to France immediately but the fee to do a bank transfer is many times that.

I wrote a check for $130,000 dollars that bounced once because the teller deposited the check I got for selling a house in somebody else's account. Mistakes happen, but the bank is able to figure it out and (hopefully) make it right - that is why the system is built to tolerate slop.

<comment><USER7> Odd, I transferred tens of thousands between the UK and Australia for not much more than those 15 dollars.

<comment><USER8> No, they likely just hid it in the forex spread. No bank is doing $20,000 retail cross-currency wire transfers for a $15 flat fee.

<comment><USER7> So what?

I transferred cash across the globe for peanuts. The underlying mechanism doesn't really matter to me.

<comment><USER8> No, you're just not aware of how much you paid.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> This is a very selective view of banking. In financial reporting you have a lot of situations where you need a consistent point-in-time snapshot of your data or you might be in very big trouble.

It's true that clearing of payments and trades is usually a multi-step process that isn't done in one huge distributed transaction. But implementing each stage of that process without ACID transactions seems like a daunting task to me.

So I think Eric Brewer's remarks lack a bit of nuance and detail, but he's not entirely wrong of course.

<comment><USER10> Could you be specific. In what particular areas do you need a consistent point-in-time snapshot?

Having worked in finance myself, as part of a team that procured and replaced an international core banking system with a state-of-the-art, multi-hundred million dollar successor; we've never had a strong consistency requirement. Much weaker forms consistency sufficed for their needs and the requirements of regulators.

Also what big trouble do you mean? I do not know of any financial regulators that expect banks to have a totally consistent point-in-time view of their balance sheet. Furthermore the Basel Accords and similar banking supervision rules do not mandate such a requirement.

I be very much grateful if you could provide me with this information, as I can pass it to my former colleagues who will be quite surprised to discover this requirement.

<comment><USER11> That last paragraph implies you're less interested in finding out and more interested in insisting those requirements don't exist because you worked on a project that overlaps with the incredibly broad term "financial reporting". The term is so broad I'd almost say your anecdotal experience is more likely to be irrelevant than not.

<comment><USER10> A core banking system captures and stores all the transactions and business a bank performs. Without this a bank would not be able to function let alone produce a meaningful financial report.

<comment><USER11> In what way does that mean you'd be able to disprove the statement:

"In financial reporting you have a lot of situations where you need a consistent point-in-time snapshot of your data or you might be in very big trouble."

You're trying to sell your anecdotal experience rather than explain your point.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I find quite often in India that whem networks are down, ATMs go down displaying a network failure error message on screen. I've never heard of anyone being able to overdraw an account. Credit cards also need authorization both through PIN on terminal and bank authorization over the networks (which do fail from time to time). Over the Internet, two factor authentication is pretty much mandatory especially for credit cards.

Therefore this whole Banks don't value consistency argument feels very fishy to my experience. Is this a uniquely American thing like lack of chip and pin?

<comment><USER13> I don't know about India, but I know that in many western European countries overdraft fees such as those that are common in the US would be considered above the maximum legal interest rate, because of that the bank has no big incentive in letting you withdraw money you don't have. Consider also how much more widespread chip and pin cards are on this side of the pond, and you're starting to make me suspect that the wider adoption of chip and pin might have been helped by usury laws.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> 1234 days ago:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5642010](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5642010)

</comment><comment><USER15> The conclusions of this article have far more implications for the future of blockchain technologies than for the future of databases.

Bitcoin and Ethereum and their ilk have, out of necessity, valued ACID qualities above all else- including availability and responsiveness. Does it make sense that completing a $1 transaction would require the same amount of resources as a $100,000 transaction? The traditional banking system has the flexibility to expend fewer resources on the $1 transaction, but Bitcoin does not- by design.

Interestingly, I think it is the inconvenience of the traditional banking system that gives it this flexibility. If financial transactions were something that could be done instantaneously, by a computer, without having to provide personal information to set up an account, then stealing money in 100,000 $1 transactions might be easier than stealing $100,000 in one big heist. Add a little inconvenience to each transaction and this problem goes away.

Unless blockchain transactions are extremely cheap, it will limit their competitiveness with the traditional banking system for this reason.

<comment><USER16> > Bitcoin and Ethereum and their ilk have, out of necessity, valued ACID > qualities above all else

They definitely don't have ACID properties.

The blockchain gives you something like eventual consistency, but it's probabilistic.

You have atomicity within a single block, but given the acceptance of the block is only eventually consistent, I'm not sure it's meaningful.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> This is such an important article for people to read, especially people so bent on strong consistency. I've done talks on this for our database (eventually consistent, [http://gun.js.org/](http://gun.js.org/) ), and people always ask about banking. Yes banks should use strongly consistent approaches, but they don't - user experience trumps perfect academics. And having Eric Brewer say this is fantastic evidence.

<comment><USER18> What do you do when your reservation app gives two people the same table?

What do you do when your auction app thinks there are two winning bidders?

It's not about "perfect academics" it's about risk management. How do you prevent or manage inconsistencies.

<comment><USER17> These are great questions and I hope I can convince you with some simple answers.

We cannot get this problem if we treat the table as its own thing. So for instance, rather than having a "reservation" that has an "assignedTable" column with a string of "2A", if instead we have a table that has a property of "7pm" with a value of "Mr & Mrs Smith" then this value cannot be a string munged with the other couple.

This easily applies to many other areas, like finance. Rather than having a "purchase" record that has a "debit" amount on it, make the software model the real world of currency. Instead you have a "dollar" record with a unique serial number, it has a "owner" property of "lotyrin". No matter how many times we concurrently write to this property, the end result must necessarily be 1 value.

This is the way humans have been thinking for thousands of years. And guess what, I sat down with a large airline and had to warn them "we're not Strongly Consistent" and they laughed at me saying "you realize we've been booking seat reservations before there was internet, before you were born, and before there was cheap telephony. Seat reservation has never been strongly consistent - <USER2> used to have hundreds of travel agents booking seats and it would take 2 weeks before we would hear about it."

Again, I want to emphasize this is exactly the reason that perfect academics doesn't always help - it is a solution to a problem in isolation, devoid of its real world context. I am in no way saying the academics aren't useful or interesting, but I am saying that even Eric Brewer himself recognizes where academics aren't helpful.

But to stress your point, let's take your example further. Rather than assuming the restaurant actually has a credit card authorization server that is the source of authority, let us pretend it is more of a bitcoin crowd hosted reservation service. Now despite our "Mr & Mrs Smith" value being straightforward, we wind up having a replication problem. One server has it as that value, and another peer-to-peer server has it as "Mr & Mrs Lionheart". What happens?

Well, under our database (like an Open Source Firebase, see the link in my original comment), this is why realtime updates and push notifications are so handy. Even if 2 couples reserve the same table on different peer servers at roughly the same time (such that when the peer servers checked availability there was no conflict), when the new update saves it gets pushed out to all the peers and runs through a conflict resolution algorithm locally. So all peers sync based off of push, not an outdated pull.

In fact, we made a great explainer video for this type of situation, see [http://gun.js.org/explainers/conflict_resolution/lexical_sor...](http://gun.js.org/explainers/conflict_resolution/lexical_sorting.html) (might change the URL naming scheme in future, so careful of a broken link). But I'm going to again assume you aren't talking about "what practically happens" but are intentionally trying to push for the extreme edge case bugs. If so, let us add that the peers are offline while these updates happen (because yes, this is something we support, being offline-first) so therefore cannot sync with each other fast enough for the 2 couples to realize one of them got ousted.

We are now only left with two scenarios: A) Because when the app tries to save the data it gets an error that the push notification failed due to the network being down, we display a warning to the user that the "Reservation is pending, proceed at your own risk or try again later". Or B) Because we are being academic, we yes go ahead and make the reservation (unaware of the conflict). How do we address it? Well...

Finally, both the Lionhearts and Smiths show up at the same time. Initially they argue both asserting "I have the reservation" until a hostess steps in. The hostess apologizes and says "We are terribly sorry, this is our mistake and let us fix it for you." They then offer:

A) Would one of you like to sit at the open table over here, that somebody canceled last minute on?

B) If (A) is not available, then here are free drinks* for all of you, but who would like a 20% discount* off their next dinner? Next open table should be in about 45 minutes?

*Total loss is 75cents on sugar water and $10 of discount, but profit GAIN is $50 (because had the reservation app said "booked out" the 2nd couple would have never turned into a customer), leaving the restaurant at a net of +$39.25 at the end of the night.

Again, let us make it more extreme, both couples are uncompromising, saying "We cannot do that, we have a show at 9pm", then there are only 2 remaining situations:

A) You flip a coin and 1 couple leaves angry and never comes back to use the 20% discount because they are so angry the coin did not choose them. (Note, the restaurant still made a profit filling out the seat though) OR

B) You basically flip a coin and 1 couple leaves bummed, but enjoying their free drink and looking forward to coming back another time with a 20% discount. (Note, restaurant still makes a positive profit)

The moral of the story is that you want to create Win-Win options for everybody. Why? Because as you say, it is all about risk management and the probabilities that Murphy's Law is going to strike so many times (multi- continuously-offline-peers-that-do-not-error-with-above-average-unsatisfiable- angry-humans) such that you get an angry customer with a free drink and a coupon is extraordinarily unlikely. And if you have not already calculated for ever losing 75cents on sugar water plus a discount, then something is wrong with your risk management department - not with your algorithm.

With that, I'll leave the bidding app to your imagination. The trick question for finding simple solution is: What would humans do before the telephone?

I hope this was a pleasure to read, and I want to thank you for calling me out by asking the glaring question. If you have any concerns or counter arguments, please let me know. I would be happy to hear them. If you like what you see here though, check out the rest of our work on the Open Source database. Cheers!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> While interesting, this is not satisfying as a general argument for non-ACID databases. Incrementing and decrementing are about the simplest possible operations, and even the article admitted that these are commutative, so the order doesn't matter. It is indeed much easier to work with operations that can be ordered arbitrarily, but I think that most real-world problems are sequential.

</comment><comment><USER20> (2013)

It would be interesting to know if BASE at ATMs had anything to do with

[http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/05/jap...](http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/05/japan- atm-theft/483902/)

Coordinated attack over two hours? A little DDOS + BASE perhaps?

</comment><comment><USER21> I could only read a third of the article before starting to crinch too much. If this was on purpose and I missed the same conclusion I am presenting here, sorry.

The article sounds like "this of course is the smart way, make money first, worry about details later". But if you think about it this is very, very wrong. First, if any system will fail drastically at some point. You wait long enough and something unexpected happens. Second, if this consistency tolerance becomes widely known people will try, and at some point succeed, to cheat the system big time.

If any of these two scenarios happens, the whole system breaks. And then, what do you do? You can only get so many bail outs from the tax payers. The smart way, of course, is to not be too greedy and stick close to a relatively consistent scenario.</comment>


Show HN - third party risk wrt security or gdpr - <AUTHOR> The goal of this project is to bundle a lot of information around third-party risk for GDPR and security related use.
I do a lot of GDPR and information security consulting for B2B SAAS companies.
These companies become interested in GDPR/security at the moment they are having some success with selling to enterprises, as these enterprises have a procurement process in place with (often very thorough) questionnaires on security and privacy related concerns.
I end up having to chase down information spread around the web in order to fill out these questionnaires. So that's the reason behind this: a reference guide for gdpr & security related information.
* Actual website: https://third-party-risk.herokuapp.com/ (it's still rather empty right now, I'll add more data in the coming weeks)
* Github: https://github.com/ddccffvv/third-party-risk
Comments/remarks/suggestions very welcome! As well as help with the code, design, chasing down data...
Let me know if you want me to add your company (either here or the email on the site). <comment><USER2> There's a similar list on [https://gdpr4saas.eu/providers- list](https://gdpr4saas.eu/providers-list)

<comment><AUTHOR> Fantastic! Part of posting this was trying to find out if similar resources exist :)

Although I'd also like the list of subprocessors, that's often needed and can't find it on that site (at first glance)</comment></comment>


Faster file editing with Vim - <AUTHOR> http://arcibalio.com/faster-file-editing-in-vim/

<comment><USER2> tl;dr

use CtrlP plugin [0]

(The post is not that long, but rather light on content...)

[0] [https://github.com/kien/ctrlp.vim](https://github.com/kien/ctrlp.vim)</comment>


There's only so much science can tell us about human morality. - <AUTHOR> http://www.slate.com/id/2208430/pagenum/all/ <comment><USER2> i can imagine the epic levels of hand-wringing that will occur when we are capable of terraforming.</comment>


'If we soften up, our readers will go' - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-41337218/ceo-secrets-if-we-soften-up-our-readers-will-go <comment><AUTHOR> I'm a big fan of elReg and write for it from time to time.

[http://www.theregister.co.uk/](http://www.theregister.co.uk/)

The BBC describes it as an IT "Private Eye" but I doubt that that helps many outside the UK. (Private Eye is a satirical mag that doesn't pull its punches either.)

<comment><USER2> When it started, it was like Private Eye, it's now loser to a Daily Mail/Sun hybrid. There are nuggets of good reporting, but mainly clickbait 'churnalism'. Even seen an editor calling a commenter "thick as shit" recently!

<comment><AUTHOR> It's always been thoroughly tongue-in-cheek and has for a long time referred to users of its comments section as "commentards" for example.

Please never ever confuse elReg with the Daily Fail: elReg cares about facts and consistency and even truth.</comment></comment></comment>


Tiny Estimator - <AUTHOR> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bizappsi.effortestimate <comment><AUTHOR> What are the features you are looking for on this app?</comment>


Show HN: Lannister – open-source wealth manager app - <AUTHOR> https://lannister.capital <comment><USER2> Slick promotional website but not a single privacy disclosure or terms of service for an app that gathers financial data?

This is not something you push out after the MVP has shipped.

<comment><AUTHOR> All the info is stored either on the device itself or synced via Blockstack if you wish to do so. The project is also entirely open-source - [https://github.com/lannister-capital](https://github.com/lannister-capital)

<comment><USER3> I understand your intention, but you have a bit of an uphill battle. Users have to trust you on many levels:

1) The app running on your phone is powered by the software on github.

2) This will not change.

The only way I would use an app like this would be if it were offered by a financial institution that holds my assets. If your app caused me to lose money, I would be SOL. If their's did, they would be required to answer for it.

<comment><AUTHOR> Lannister only holds references of your holdings at the moment. It doesn't store your holdings/assets directly, so there's no chance to be stolen, since they're not there. Lannister is not a bank account or crypto wallet, it's a portfolio management app only. We don't ask or store private keys or any personal banking information of any kind.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Interesting. I personally use [https://outbankapp.com/en/](https://outbankapp.com/en/).

The app is closed-source; everything is locally stored.

It allows me to track my bank accounts, including portfolios, etc. from most German and Dutch banks, credit cards, etc..

Additionally it can track BTC, ETH wallets, connect to Coinbase and a few other exchanges and membership programs.

I would never use a wealth management app requiring manual entry. That`s just slightly better than a spreadsheet. Keep up the work!

Caveat: Only supported in Germany and the Netherlands at the moment (IIRK).

Edit: A similar offering I just remembered: [https://www.numbrs.com/en_uk/](https://www.numbrs.com/en_uk/). Might be some good inspiration as well.

<comment><USER5> Looks nice. How does this app authenticate with your various financial accounts?

<comment><USER4> It stores your credentials locally. The whole situation should improve with PSD2 (EU perspective).

<comment><USER6> Give a closed source app my bank credentials? No thanks.

<comment><USER7> How real is the risk of a registered and legit business selling a banking app taking your banking credentials and stealing your money? I'd estimate it to be 0.

<comment><USER8> They're extremely juicy target for hacking though.

<comment><USER7> It stores the data locally, so first you have to break into the system, then the encrypted container of the app. If someone does that then you are probably a pretty high value target and have different problems.

An open source, non audited app, that's not even compiled yourself (iOS app) isn't much different than that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I think it's a great name! It is recognizable and well-associated with what you're building, even if the name-story accuracy isn't 100% - I think that would be serious nitpicking and you can always rename it something else later when the cost / benefit makes sense.

<comment><USER10> I'd have called it Iron Bank.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Game of Thrones spoiler ahead:

I am not wild about that name. The Lannisters are the bad guys throughout the run of the GoT story and by later seasons it is revealed that their wealth has mostly wasted away. They are only able to keep up appearances of wealth through taking on large amounts of debt and by looting their enemies. Yes, the single primary characteristic you would assign to the Lannisters is wealth. I am just not sure that is worth associating your product with all their secondary traits like deceit, fraud, selfishness, and ruthlessness.

<comment><AUTHOR> I understand your point. Our goal was to name it after a person, like "Alfred" the productivity app for Mac ([https://www.alfredapp.com](https://www.alfredapp.com)), but we found that Lannister would be more appropriate as a reference to wealth management. Hope it does not lead you into thinking about the secondary traits.

<comment><USER11> Maybe it is just the ages of the references, but I think "Alfred" is a more general name that is less associated with the character. But more importantly he doesn't have the negative secondary traits associated with him that completely conflict with how you want people to think of your app. Using Lannister for a wealth management app is almost like naming your nutrition management app after a character with an eating disorder.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Let me lead off by saying I'm not a lawyer, but "House Lannister" is trademarked[0]. I would not be surprised if you receive a C&D notice.

[0]: [https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87704402&caseType=SERIAL_...](https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87704402&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch)

</comment><comment><USER13> I wonder if this is allowed regarding copyright.

If it isn't, I'd suggest a GoT metaphore that is slightly less obvious (but still obvious). E.g. Golden Lion or My Golden Lion.

</comment><comment><USER14> Will this app helps me to always pay my debt?

<comment><AUTHOR> Lannister always pays its debts. Unfortunately, not yours :) In any case, we have on our roadmap some features such as setting financial goals and financial advice. We have a public roadmap here: [https://github.com/orgs/lannister- capital/projects/1](https://github.com/orgs/lannister-capital/projects/1) any feedback is highly appreciated

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Thank you for all the feedback and support. If you'd like to continue the discussion and helping with development join us on Discord at [https://discordapp.com/invite/6SrsfUf](https://discordapp.com/invite/6SrsfUf).

Lannister is completely open-source and the code is available at [https://github.com/lannister-capital](https://github.com/lannister-capital)

</comment><comment><USER15> I've thought about building something similar to this for the US, but getting the data into the app is a difficult problem. What is the general opinion on using a device like Plaid?

Alternatively, I could support manual import of statements, but that would dramatically reduce the number of institutions that I could support.

</comment><comment><USER16> To clarify, does this automatically fetch updated crypto/stock/etc prices so that I can see my exposure changing over time, or do I have to manually update the amount of money in each holding?

<comment><USER17> As far as I could see there is no way to add certain stocks/crypto/funds etc. basically just a slightly better spreadsheet, you have to enter all by yourself. That's a pitty, I would like to have one where I just enter which stock I bought and when and it shows me the win/loss over time.

<comment><AUTHOR> We're supporting 2 crypto (BTC and ETH) and 12 fiat currencies at the moment. And their prices get updated every time you open the app. If you have created several currencies, you'll see the total balance of your portfolio get updated. Today is a very good day to observe it growing if you have BTC or ETH :) Regarding stocks and other funds, we're not supporting them yet, but it's certainly on our roadmap.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Great idea an iphone. I might have a look at it on my daughter's iPod if she allows me to install :)

Or I'll just wait for the web version!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you! We also have a public roadmap here: [https://github.com/orgs/lannister- capital/projects/1](https://github.com/orgs/lannister-capital/projects/1) any suggestions or ideas for future development are very welcome!

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Yeah +1 that this becomes more of a thing based on name alone.

You might need to explicitly state in company policy that:

\- Crossbows not allowed at board meetings.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, and we won't have armchairs!

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Umm I am not sure if I am missing something, but where is the self hosted or source code I can compile for myself?

<comment><USER21> There seems to be a github link at the bottom of the page.

<comment><USER20> I couldn't see it from Chrome on my Android Galaxy S10+. Thanks!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Can I host this on my own system?

<comment><AUTHOR> You can clone the project ([https://github.com/lannister-capital/lannister- ios](https://github.com/lannister-capital/lannister-ios)) and run the app on your device. We're working on a web version now, which is still WIP, but is also open-source ([https://github.com/lannister-capital/lannister- app](https://github.com/lannister-capital/lannister-app)).

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> What's the main difference between this and GnuCash?

</comment><comment><USER24> I don't see any information about the source code... No mention of Open source on the website.

<comment><AUTHOR> We have it at the bottom of the page, but I agree that it's not very visible. We'll add it at the top of the page. Thanks for your feedback! Appreciate it!

<comment><USER24> Thanks!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> This can pivot to an app for dating your sister

<comment><USER26> __Low effort slow clap __</comment></comment>


San Francisco, Hostage to the Homeless - <AUTHOR> https://www.city-journal.org/html/san-francisco-hostage-homeless-16980.html <comment><USER2> Repost of this: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21188178](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21188178)

</comment><comment><USER3> > San Francisco's progressive self-image soon trumped common sense, and in > 1996, at the urging of the Coalition on Homelessness, voters turned Jordan > out of city hall in favor of former state assembly speaker Willie Brown. > Brown had run on a compassion platform, but he soon came to repudiate it, > observing with amazement that many of the homeless didn't actually want to > come off the streets. ...

When people think of the Great Depression, they tend to imagine bread lines, lots of unemployment, and general poverty.

What if a modern depression in the US looks like San Francisco? A deep divide between haves and have-nots. The have-nots spiral ever further downward, propelled by abundant drugs, while the haves struggle to comprehend (or even notice) what's happening. Leaders have run out of ideas about how to solve the problem, contenting themselves with damage control.

All the while drip, drip drip... the problems continue to compound.

</comment><comment><USER4> Something annoying about this kind of reporting is that the writer constantly refers to the homeless population as a monolithic group called "the homeless."

The writer ascribes all kinds of attitudes and beliefs onto them, ostensibly based on the writer's interactions with homeless people in investigating this story.

There's a weird self-fulfilling prophecy going on in which the writer only interacts with homeless people who are behaving in the way the writer would like them to. You aren't, for instance, going to get a homeless person who doesn't do drugs to test your fentanyl for you.

Feels like an inherently biased sort of investigation.

<comment><USER5> >>"You aren't, for instance, going to get a homeless person who doesn't do drugs"

what does that even mean (like they only abuse alcohol?)?

There are not thousands but 10s of thousands of discarded needles being cleaned up monthly and weekly ([https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2019/09/04/the-city- picks-...](https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2019/09/04/the-city-picks- discarded-needles-each-week/G1Ue4UygRjOy3Kpgvk10mO/story.html))

>> Feels like an inherently biased sort of investigation.

this is a weird call out.

What is the proposed alternative here?

<comment><USER6> > what does that even mean (like they only abuse alcohol?)?

Only about 35% of the homeless population has an addiction. Less than half of the homeless population neither has an addiction nor a mental illness. [1] Just because there is lots of substance abuse (and yes, there certainly is), doesn't mean that the average homeless person does drugs. When you talk about the homeless population, you have to include people who are really quite like you but had a bad turn. Many of them have a story like "I got a mortgage with a large down payment just before 2008, when I lost my job and then shortly my house. I had to go to the streets because I had nowhere else to go."

[1]: [https://sunrisehouse.com/addiction-demographics/homeless- pop...](https://sunrisehouse.com/addiction-demographics/homeless-population/)

<comment><USER5> I am extremely skeptical of the 35% number.

>>Less than half of the homeless population neither has an addiction nor a mental illness.

Above quote implies close to half. I just find it hard to believe.

If a person is otherwise "functional" (or as you say "like you") I would really want to know more about their situation if their time on the street is longer than one month.

For contrast id like to point out that in the cases of migrant caravans comprised of THOUSANDS ([https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/10/20/migrant...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/10/20/migrant- caravan-honduras-migrants-mexico-border/1709896002/)) of people and families. Caravan migrants are so poor they cant afford a bus/train ticket. As far as i know most of those people do not WALK to the US to sleep on the streets. As far as i know they are able to find housing.

Just to recap people with almost no education/English/money and minimal social network DO NOT endup on the streets of major cities in their thousands.

I make a point of this - because for this problem to get resolved we have to think critically about what the problem actually is.

And to be super clear - we absolutely need a better safety net for people who fell on hard times and could no longer keep their previously expensive home.

But also we need to be clear about the causes of homelessness we see in major US cities.

<comment><USER7> I was homeless for 9 month in Paris (until i got my first internship), i did not live on the street, i slept at my school or took friends beds when they were out of town, and i think most homeless do the same. And i was not alone, i think we were ~20 to do the out of 400 students. None of us had addiction (i can't tell about mental issue, after all we wanted to be devs).

I went to San Francisco 3 years ago with my familly and my sister made some homeless friends. They were not living in the street but in their cars, they had low-pay (or illegal) jobs and did not seems to have any addictions.

I think this is a definition issue. Homeless just mean you don't have a home.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Why was this flagged?

</comment><comment><USER9> And homeowners.

<comment><USER10> Arguably a more important problem as it impacts the vast majority of the population.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> "A 33-year-old woman from Alabama, who now lives in a tent in an industrial area outside downtown"

migration issue, rule of law failure and a healthcare problem.

since there is no expansion of the middle class layer to pay more taxes for the extra cost of new social housing IMHO this is going to progress.

<comment><USER12> At an even 90% income tax rate there's not enough money in the city to _build_ new housing for the homeless and financially insecure. It's insane to think this is even possible. (Not that I assume _you_ do.) It's like saying we should buy new cars for the carless, rural population rather than subsidize used car purchases.

But there would be no cheap, used cars to buy if we severely limited the manufacture of new cars. Yet somehow people still believe that building new, market rate[1] housing is _not_ a prerequisite to improving the housing situation in the city. To be sure, it's _not_ _sufficient_ ; but it's absolutely _necessary_.

[1] Thus leveraging the hundreds of trillions of global capital.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> San Francisco in 2019 arguably has more wealth concentrated within it than any place at any other time in history.

Making poor and mentally ill people sleep on the street is a choice you have made as a society. Places with far, far fewer resources have somehow managed to sort this problem out.

<comment><USER14> What's the solution?

<comment><USER6> Build houses for them, for one. Make housing cheaper in the first place, so they don't go on the streets. At a bare minimum, at least have sufficient shelters for them so they don't have to sleep on the streets. (Almost) no one wants to sleep on the street, and San Francisco has more than enough money to make it so they don't have to. Heck, some individual Bay Area companies have enough money for it, not that they would ever spend it on the homeless.</comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: Hacker News and Reddit comments everywhere - <AUTHOR> https://epiverse.co/ <comment><USER2> Love this. Is it possible to add link submission to Reddit or HN? Especially when we know that the link is not in them already.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks :)

As in post comments/threads back to Reddit/HN? Possibly in the future. We were originally all about our own comment system (which we've temporarily removed) and we wanted to limit users to our ecosystem. But we've recently started questioning a lot of our approach (we'd been hoping to apply for YC, but are really struggling with traction), so we could very well do that.

Posting links to Reddit would be a little iffy in that users would need to pick a subreddit. HN should be fine.

(We have a subreddit too in case you want updates: [https://reddit.com/r/Epiverse/](https://reddit.com/r/Epiverse/))</comment></comment>


Kalman and Bayesian Filters in Python (2018) - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/rlabbe/Kalman-and-Bayesian-Filters-in-Python <comment><USER2> This book is quite good. I was recently looking for a more production-ready kalman filters, but the ones I found tend to be either abandoned, lacking lots of features, or not mature code bases. Are there any robust libraries for Kalman filters out there?

<comment><USER3> I think I've used the OpenCV Kalman filter implementation at some point. Maybe that suits your needs

<comment><USER4> OpenCV only provides Linear Kalman Filter afaik. For nonlinear estimation you need to use Extended or Unscented (this one is often used in Drone).

I wrote estimation library in Go [1] last year which implements a lot of Kalman Filter alternatives and optimisations + smoothing

[https://github.com/milosgajdos83/go- estimate](https://github.com/milosgajdos83/go-estimate)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> There is also an excellent series (55 vids!) by Michel van Biezen on Kalman filters:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaCcOwJPytQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaCcOwJPytQ)

</comment><comment><USER6> Much easier to use them in Simulink, but it's good to see alternatives.

</comment><comment><USER7> I had this book in my backlog for years. The fact that the book is interactive would immensely help me understand the concept.

<comment><USER8> While Kalman and Bayesian Filters in Python is a superb resource, probably the best out there, my recommendation for anyone new to the field would be to do Sebastian Thrun's free Artificial Intelligence for Robotics course [1] as an intro, then go through Labbe's work afterwards.

Thrun's course is more accessible and even more hands-on than Labbe's content. As a bonus he also covers Particle Filters,PID control, Search and SLAM (which cam out of Thrun's PhD thesis).

[1] [https://www.udacity.com/course/artificial-intelligence- for-r...](https://www.udacity.com/course/artificial-intelligence-for-robotics --cs373)</comment></comment>


iDeal CRM – A Sales CRM Built for Construction - <AUTHOR> https://idealcrm.app/ <comment><AUTHOR> iDeal was designed and engineered to best suit contractors and subcontractors, as it follows typical sales workflow of an opportunity in the bidding process of a contractor's environment.

<comment><USER2> Fyi, iDeal is also a payment processor in the Netherlands</comment></comment>


A (Controversial) view on PCs are fast enough - <AUTHOR> http://www.krazykoding.com/2012/10/a-controversial-view-on-pcs-are-fast.html

<comment><USER2> _But none of this means all possible applications have now been invented and more performance is useless._

Who is saying that increasing performance by coming up with more efficient software is useless?

<comment><USER3> I think by "performance" he was referring to hardware performance. So, beefier hardware is not necessary for today's applications, but might enable applications we can't even run (on current hardware) yet.

<comment><AUTHOR> Exactly right. We haven't even remotely invented everything a PC can do, its not just about dotting the i's and crossing the t's of the interfaces at this stage.

Software with higher performance hardware is destined to get much smarter than it is today and a lot of things we have moved server side or run asynchronously can be run realtime.</comment></comment></comment>


James Damore Sues Google Claiming Bias Against White/Conservative Men - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/08/technology/google-memo-discrimination-lawsuit.html? <comment><USER2> dupe of [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16098676](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16098676)

</comment><comment><USER3> This is going to be interesting.</comment>


YC W2019 Invite/Rejection - <AUTHOR> Has anyone received an invite/rejection email for the W2019 batch? <comment><USER2> Around 14 hours remaining. Come join the chat room for YC W2019 applicants while you wait : [https://www.hackerschat.net/](https://www.hackerschat.net/)

<comment> 100-xyz Page not loading for me. Located in China, so perhaps Chinese government protecting me from the evils of the internet :-)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I don't remember if this is rolling, but I can confirm they're not out yet :)

</comment><comment><USER4> Just got the rejection mail, good luck everybody!

</comment><comment><USER5> I didn't receive the email yet!

</comment><comment><USER6> Not yet

</comment><comment> 100-xyz No.

</comment><comment><USER7> not yet!</comment>


Books that make you dumb - <AUTHOR> http://booksthatmakeyoudumb.virgil.gr/ <comment><USER2> pretty cool experiment. the books at the very left might cause some controversy..

<comment><USER3> I suppose, but you can't take a list like this at face value. It's fun, but still meaningless without controlling for various other factors (like percentage of high scores from public vs. private high schools, etc).</comment></comment>


Accelerating iOS on QEMU with hardware virtualization (KVM) - <AUTHOR> https://alephsecurity.com/2020/07/19/xnu-qemu-kvm/ <comment><USER2> > The ARM servers we were working on, however, ignored a higher different > number of LSBs. Therefore, when dc zva was called inside bzero, more bytes > than expected were set to 0

Let that sink in... ARM has an instruction which zeros out an implementation defined amount of memory...

How can ARM ever hope to become the new-x86 with things like that? It's pretty rare a programmer wants a randomly sized bit of memory zeroed...

<comment><USER3> Nope, the writers are just wrong. It is not a random value, and it is not arbitrary

"DC ZVA" always zeroes exactly one data cache line. That is the size. And you can easily get that size from an appropriate userspace-readable register. See for yourself: [https://developer.arm.com/docs/ddi0595/h/aarch64-system- inst...](https://developer.arm.com/docs/ddi0595/h/aarch64-system- instructions/dc-zva) and [https://developer.arm.com/docs/ddi0595/h/aarch64-system- regi...](https://developer.arm.com/docs/ddi0595/h/aarch64-system- registers/dczid_el0)

You are not expected to use it anyways. Your libc is, in its implementation of memset(), and it will properly query and use it.

Not only that, but since ARMv8.6 this instr, _AND_ the reg you can read to get its size are both trappable by hypervisors (using HFGITR_EL2 and HFGRTR_EL2 fine-grained-trap regs respectively). See [https://developer.arm.com/docs/ddi0595/h/aarch64-system- regi...](https://developer.arm.com/docs/ddi0595/h/aarch64-system- registers/hfgitr_el2) and [https://developer.arm.com/docs/ddi0595/h/aarch64-system- regi...](https://developer.arm.com/docs/ddi0595/h/aarch64-system- registers/hfgrtr_el2)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Wow, they succeeded in getting iOS to boot on a cloud ARM processor inside QEMU. They can use that enviro to develop custom layers to eventually run on modded hardware to do realtime analysis at full execution speed.

</comment><comment><USER5> Great writeup!</comment>


Anyone used My Trio Rings to buy engagement / wedding rings? More in comments. - <AUTHOR> http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/smallbusiness/1109/gallery.unemployment_startup/3.html

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm trying to buy an engagement ring, and the process is as scammy and information asymmetrical as buying a car or mattress. In other words, it looks ripe for a smart startup to totally challenge the industry. My Trio Rings is the only one I've been able to find. Has anyone bought from them? What was the experience like?

<comment><USER2> In this case, challenging the industry means going up against the public's image of what an engagement ring should look like.

It's an image reinforced by years of successful marketing and backed by an enormous monopoly. Some may see that as an unsurmountable challenge, others may see opportunity.

This article posted on HN a few months ago was brilliantly informative:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4535611>

That said, I'd be interested in hearing about the experience as well.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Hey jseliger, I'm the director of marketing at mytriorings (been on hn since my last startup!). Are there any questions in particular you have about diamond buying? Happy to shed some light on any questions! We're a company started by young folks, I myself am only 25! We're disrupting the industry by making wholesale prices accessible for the everyday consumer who otherwise only has access to high end and big box retailers which overprice their products exorbitantly based on social "norms" (marketing funded by debeers in the past few decades) around diamonds. Hope you find some great feedback here, we also have a great deal of reviews on our website and on our amazon store!

Thanks and good luck! pun279</comment>


Sync for YNAB – Connecting YNAB to UK Banks - <AUTHOR> http://syncforynab.com <comment><USER2> Would be really handy but I'd definitely want a page on the site spelling out in explicit detail how data flows and who has access to what plus what happens if things go wrong.

Not that I assume shenanigans but if I'm giving someone access to my bank account, even read-only, I want to be damn sure it's safe and that I'm covered if things go wrong.</comment>


I'm interviewing Weebly's David Rusenko live today at 12:30pm (PT) - <AUTHOR> http://ycombinator.posterous.com/weebly-wednesday

<comment><USER2> How do you do the Splitscreen interviews? Is that all done with Justin.tv?

</comment><comment><USER3> Lately there's a significant increase in YC publicity - Harj, meetups, interviews. Are you guys feeling increased competition from the other YC clones?

<comment><AUTHOR> Actually it's because of Harj that all these things are happening. We've been meaning to do them for a long time but we were always too busy. Now that we have more people working on YC we can finally do them!</comment></comment>


The Chinese doctor who sounded the alarm on the Wuhan coronavirus has died - <AUTHOR> https://lite.cnn.io/en/article/h_e38c8f8649e713753e9c7b01c1e55432 <comment><USER2> I usually hear stories of doctors dying from the diseases they treat in historical accounts. Hearing it from a news article is a stark reminder of what so many doctor's have sacrificed to treat people. Li Wenliang has joined a group of the noblest and most revered physicians.

However, the Chinese police made him sign a ticket for spreading "False Rumors." This is why I feel a thrill of panic whenever people talk about cracking down on Fake News in the United States. When the government determines what is true and prosecutes those who go against that narrative we will no longer live in a free society in even the faintest sense.</comment>


Facebook reveals holographic optics for thin and light VR headsets - <AUTHOR> https://venturebeat.com/2020/06/29/facebook-reveals-holographic-optics-for-thin-and-light-vr-headsets/ <comment><USER2> A logical next step I would imagine is Facebook acquiring/partnering with existing manufacturers of prescription lenses (or sunglasses for outdoor use) to push this mainstream.

The applications for this are quite straightforward; a semi-intrusive HUD that can show you information FB already aggregates, such as:

\- GPS application for locating businesses or events/meetups (when driving/walking)

\- if any of my friends are currently in a café that I'm walking by

\- ratings and promotional deals of a store in my viewport in 3D-space

\- etc.

<comment><USER3> I think they're already working with Luxottica who is the dominant (close to monopoly player) in the glasses/lenses market, although an acquisition of them would be huge (current market cap is about 57B euro)

[https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/17/facebook-enlists-ray-ban- mak...](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/17/facebook-enlists-ray-ban-maker- luxottica-to-make-orion-ar-glasses.html)

<comment><USER4> Most of Luxottica's value is in the monopoly control of the eyeglass business. A pure Lens manufacturer can be had much more cheaply.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Dupe: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23692442](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23692442)</comment>


Chile introduces lenient tech visa as US applies limitations on immigration - <AUTHOR> http://www.zdnet.com/article/chile-introduces-tech-visa-as-us-looks-to-apply-limitations/ <comment><AUTHOR> The visa will allow companies operating in Chile to get H1B-equivalent visas for foreign engineers in less than two weeks.</comment>


Apple Confirms the Approach of the iCloud - <AUTHOR> http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2011/05/31/apple-confirms-the-approach-of-the-icloud/

<comment><USER3> It was confirmed recently that apple bought 12 petabytes of isilon storage.

Assuming the offering of ~3GB per cloud user, that is enough for up to 4 million accounts.

Given that their DC is 400,000 SF -- and the aerial view suggests at least two zones, it is pretty clear what and how they are offering this.

What would be interesting is if this offering is just integrated into iTunes and the new OS -- as would make sense.

If you have an iTunes account, you jsut have 3gb storage that now comes with it.

Accessible from any apple device you own - like your iPad and iPhone - <USER2> content is seamlessly accessible across three platforms + the web.

Obvious play.</comment>


I made a website with travel advices to different destinations in the world - <AUTHOR> https://visalist.io/travel/advice <comment><USER2> Awesome work. One of the best travel websites that I have come recenlty across. Solves a very unique problem.

</comment><comment><USER3> The developer kept whole world infront of our eyes to pick the destination country

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm glad you liked it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'm using this website for a long time. But I need one feature here to compare multiple countries' VISA.

<comment><AUTHOR> You can! Here you go [https://visalist.io/visa/ranking](https://visalist.io/visa/ranking)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Hey, 1hakr, fellow indie hacker!

<comment><AUTHOR> Hi mate!

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Looks interesting! Good job

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks</comment></comment>


Using the USB-C port and adapters on your MacBook (Retina, 12-inch, Early 2015) - <AUTHOR> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204360

<comment><USER2> They should've put USB and other ports on the power brick, making it a hub. That would be a good match for the common use case where a charger and a few USB devices are permanently placed together on a desk.

<comment><USER3> Then they would have needed to supply a usb 3.0 charging cable. I guess one reason why they are using only a usb 2.0 cable is that they want it to be thin.

<comment><USER4> IANAEE, but maybe it's due to the cable length and signaling requirements of the 3.1 spec when transferring that amount of power. I wouldn't be surprised if you're right about it being the thin cable, though.

<comment><USER3> You can get full featured cables supporting 3.1 with power delivery support

One example: [http://www.belkin.com/us/F2CU030-Belkin/p/P-F2CU030/](http://www.belkin.com/us/F2CU030-Belkin/p/P-F2CU030/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Pretty sad to see MagSafe go. It's saved my laptop's life many times before.

Also, it's crazy that none of the adapters has more than one non-C USB port.

<comment><USER6> It might be possible, theoretically, to build a breakaway adapter for USB-C. Maybe further downstream on the cable itself, so the USB-C plug remains in but the cable comes away and can be re-connected.

The ONLY problem with this is safety. USB-C can easily kill, so any breakaway would need to cut power reliably.

<comment><USER7> USB type C supports up to 20V DC for power delivery. It certainly can't "easily" kill. Assuming an unusually low 300ohm internal resistance, and electrodes piercing the skin and positioned such that current flows through the heart, that's still only 67mA. That's potentially lethal with AC, but well below any published threshold I can find for DC. Despite rumors of deaths from 9V DC with electrodes piercing the skin I'm unable to find any officially documented deaths from such low DC voltages.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> So this basically amounts to a mandatory $80 mark-up for a not-so-optional USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter, right?

[http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digital- av...](http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digital-av-multiport- adapter)

Without it, the machine is essentially limited to wi-fi speeds for everything you try to do.

<comment><USER9> Yes, it is "limited" to something like 500mbps. At least the 2013 models got that, this one might be fast, 802.11ac can go faster than gigabit ethernet.

You could spend $12 on a superspeed+ USB-C to USB-A adapter at amazon. But that doesn't get you power.

I predict USB-C high power hubs will happen soon and we'll all be happy.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> How long before PC's ship en masses with USB-C? Keyboards, mice, scanners, cameras, printers, Android phones, etc. It'll be nice to finally have a small reversible connector.

<comment><USER11> Aren't almost all of those things normally wireless now? Apart from charging phones.

<comment><USER12> I don't see a lot of wireless mice in PC-land. They exist, but don't seem to be as common as with Macs. I did have one for a bit, but switched back because it ate batteries way too fast.

<comment><USER13> Batteries last very-very long in many mice designed for PCs. The biggest reason I'm sticking to a wired one is weight and response time.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Wait _what_? They're allowing "USB 3.1" to be used to refer to 3.0 speeds? Since when does "gen 1" mean "exactly the same as the previous generation"?

It's going to be half-impossible to figure out what actually supports 10Gbps.

<comment><USER15> ArsTechnica has a good explanation about this:

[http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/03/explaining-the- usb-3-1-...](http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/03/explaining-the- usb-3-1-gen-1-port-in-the-retina-macbook/)

In short: "USB 3.1, by contrast, is a much smaller change—so much so that the USB 3.1 specification has actually absorbed the USB 3.0 spec. For whatever reason, this has led to some odd name changes. The 10Gbps version of USB 3.1 that you probably think of when you think about USB 3.1 is called "USB 3.1 Gen 2.""

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> I predict that there will be a kickstarter for a small attachment that will provide 3+ ports. A port extender that is attached to the side.

One port is not enough when that port is used to charge the device.

You can't even use a logitech mouse unless it is bluetooth capable!

EDIT: Something like this: [http://media02.hongkiat.com/zendock-cable- management/zendock...](http://media02.hongkiat.com/zendock-cable- management/zendock-non-blocking.jpg) just smaller and with two ports.

<comment><USER17> It's not clear that you read the article, as it describes several devices like that, and the whole point of the article is the somewhat obvious point you're making with the rest of your comment.

For Kickstarters, this one looks pretty nifty:

[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/668098663/infiniteusb-o...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/668098663/infiniteusb- one-usb-port-unlimited-devices)

<comment><USER16> I am thinking of something that is permanently attached not a dongle.

<comment><USER17> Ah, I think I understand now, thanks for clarifying. Though I'm sure one will be made, IMHO I'd much prefer a dongle. My ideal dongle would have AC adapter + USB + Gigabit tthernet + HDMI + 2-3 USB ports all in a small package: a docking station over a standard USB connector.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> What is the USB hub situation with USB-C? I haven't see a hub that will charge and provide ports like a Thunderbolt hub.

<comment><USER19> Dang, I had no idea "Thunderbolt hub" was even a product category. I've been lamenting the fact the only way to get that sort of functionality was a $1000 monitor...

<comment><USER18> This would be the high-end [http://www.sonnettech.com/product/echo15thunderboltdock.html](http://www.sonnettech.com/product/echo15thunderboltdock.html)

This is around the norm [https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Thunderbolt/Dock/OWC/Thunder...](https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Thunderbolt/Dock/OWC/Thunderbolt2-Dock/)

The good thing about a USB-C version would be taking the place of the power cable too.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> I would have loved to see the availability of a "give me all the ports from an 11" Air" adapter: literally giving me Display Port (not HDMI! and then I can continue to share Display Port adapters with all of my friends), two USB ports (which I use quite often :/), and (this is the most hilarious part) MagSafe 2 (so I can continue to share power adapters with all of my friends as well, and get to continue to use MagSafe).

The current crop of adapters for this device is infuriating: I already carry around VGA and HDMI Display Port adapters... now to have those two adapters, they are forcing me to carry around adapters that are twice as large (so I can still get power, and then get... just one... USB port). If I am going to be effectively carrying around a second massive adapter (in addition to two small ones), it should be an orthogonal one :/.

</comment><comment><USER21> I certainly don't mind the idea of a universal connector that is capable of doing everything. Now give me four of them instead of just one, and we'll be all set.

</comment><comment><USER22> Does anyone know if there is an adapter that gives me the possibility to connect a Macbook to a Cinema Display ?

</comment><comment><USER13> It would be so great if the connector/port module was customizable _on_ the laptop. I.e. I could get a laptop with USB-C, DP, USB-A, while someone else could use the same machine built with USB-A, VGA, card reader. Without all these clunky adapters.

</comment><comment><USER23> So what happens when you connect one Macbook to another with the USB C Charge cable?

<comment><USER24> Something like this: [http://venturebeat.com/2015/04/06/watch-this-microsofts- surf...](http://venturebeat.com/2015/04/06/watch-this-microsofts- surface-3-thinks-it-can-charge-itself/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> No mention of the Thunderbolt display. Hmm.

</comment><comment><USER26> I get an "Access Denied"</comment>


How Google killed my app with 150K installs and 2 years of work - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@spicerapp/how-google-killed-my-app-with-150k-installs-and-2-years-of-work-ec25c4a582e2 <comment><USER2> Couple of things: The app itself, according to the author's account of what it offers, is a glorified survey that shows the other person your survey results... Seems contrived and largely over-engineered, but who am I to judge?

But in a broader sense, why does Google even have a policy against sexual content? I am all for parental controls, age restrictions, and keeping the app's screenshots family friendly but I don't understand why you would create a market that would ban legal adult only content regardless of intended purpose (be it porn, surveys, couples experiences, or whatever).

If the argument is "what about unlawful sexual content? How do you manage it?" I could make that same argument about any shopping app. How does Google assure that every product Amazon seller, for example, is lawful, or every eBay auction?

I feel like rejecting apps that primary promote unlawful activities is fine and also likely legally required in many cases. But that's a different topic than this one.</comment>


Ask HN: Should I quit front-end development? - <AUTHOR> I am a decent front-end developer, work with React/Angular/Node. My manager and co-workers like my work, they believe I have a sense of "design"/aesthetics.
However, I constantly feel like this is a "lesser" form of software development. I don't feel "hardcore" enough as say, DevOps engineers.
Should I just leave web dev and pivot to systems development (C++, Rust etc). What are your thoughts? <comment><USER2> You don't have to quit something to learn more about something else. You can expand on your knowledge, have you tried making a full website with db and deployed it on a VPS? (I think deploying and configuring on a box will give you more DevOps knowledge than using a serverless service)

<comment><AUTHOR> I do have deployed them on cloud behind a web server/load balancer e.g. Nginx. I am comfortable with the deployment processes but I don't do it very often. Majority of my time goes in writing front-end.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> > I constantly feel like this is a "lesser" form of software development.

Life is short: do what makes you happiest. If JavaScript isn't that then do something else.

(Then write a blog post in a year and share it here on HN!)

<comment><AUTHOR> The only caveat is that I think I'm good at JS and can market it very well. Starting something new from scratch means I cannot demand same level of monetary return as JS.</comment></comment>


Mastering Emacs - <AUTHOR> https://www.masteringemacs.org/ <comment><USER2> I followed this blog for a while and loved it! Strongly recommended for Emacs beginners.

Also, one thing beginners miss is how great it is to use an existing configuration to learn. I've personally used @bodil's config from here[1], it's pretty comprehensive and awesome. If you are a beginner though, you should totally start with @bbatsov's Emacs Prelude[2].

[1] [https://github.com/bodil/emacs.d](https://github.com/bodil/emacs.d)

[2] [https://github.com/bbatsov/prelude](https://github.com/bbatsov/prelude)

<comment><USER3> New users who plan to configure and extend Emacs thoroughly might not benefit from using another person's configuration because they will end up reconfiguring that configuration, which I think is more difficult than configuring vanilla Emacs.

During the first weekend that I started using Emacs, I ended up writing hundreds of lines of Emacs Lisp to optimize Emacs for my usage. I had never written Lisp before, and I think using another person's configuration would have hindered my progress.

But I think that _reading_ other people's configurations can be super helpful.

Phil Hagelberg, the creator of Emacs Starter Kit, seems to have arrived at the same conclusion that I have:

[https://github.com/technomancy/emacs-starter- kit#history](https://github.com/technomancy/emacs-starter-kit#history)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> If you're on OSX and want a good Emacs, go to [https://github.com/railwaycat/emacs-mac- port](https://github.com/railwaycat/emacs-mac-port) and read the installation instructions under the Homebrew section. It follows the official Emacs repo pretty closely, but has useful OSX additions (smooth scrolling, gesture support [font size e.g] and more).

<comment><USER5> That git repo claims to be retired.

I get my emacs from here [http://emacsformacosx.com](http://emacsformacosx.com)

<comment><USER6> You misunderstand.

The repo you're referring to is Railwaycat's mirror of Yamamoto Mitsuharu's codebase. (which previously was only available via ftp and tarballs.)

Yamamoto has recently migrated to git and hosts a repo at Chiba U, the address is: [http://www.math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp/~mituharu/emacs- mac.git](http://www.math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp/~mituharu/emacs-mac.git)

HOWEVER. Railwaycat does still maintain the Homebrew tap and formula for installing Emacs Mac Port

Here: [https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew- emacsmacport](https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport)

A simple install via:

       brew tap railwaycat/emacsmacport
       brew update
       brew install emacs-mac

And you have a far superior Emacs for OSX than that built by emacsformacosx.com.

Once built, you can (without any problems) move the Emacs.app into your /Applications/ folder.

Don't do yourself a disservice, install Emacs Mac Port now.

<comment><USER7> So what is the benefit compared to the emacs port 'emacs'?

<comment><USER8> I found a full listing here: [https://github.com/railwaycat/emacs-mac- port/blob/master/REA...](https://github.com/railwaycat/emacs-mac- port/blob/master/README-mac)

<comment><USER7> Thanks! Most of it was meh, but some sounds really good. The homebrew version provides hdr gfx but not all of this.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I would personally recommend using vim bindings in emacs, as they are (in my opinion) easier to make sense of and more intuitive. However, I'm sure this book is a great resource for all the other stuff and it seems very well put- together.

<comment><USER10> spacemacs (includes evil) plug: [https://github.com/syl20bnr/spacemacs](https://github.com/syl20bnr/spacemacs)

Really great.

<comment><USER11> HN Discussion with a LOT of good comments regarding Spacemacs [0]

[0] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9394144](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9394144)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I've always been an emacs user but have only recently gotten serious about customizing it to replace other applications I normally use. If anyone has bought this and at least skimmed through I'd love to hear your thoughts before I drop $35.99 to see for myself.

<comment><USER13> Swap your CTRL and caps lock keys. It will make it a lot easier to use.

<comment><USER14> If emacs expects 3 modifier keys, and emacs is wildly popular with programmers, then why hasn't someone made a keyboard with the windows key renamed and remapped to the missing meta key?

<comment><USER15> I feel like if there was a "One True Emacs Keyboard", it would probably be something like [http://mykeyboard.co.uk/microswitch/](http://mykeyboard.co.uk/microswitch/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I'm really enjoying using Cask to manage my Emacs packages:

[https://cask.readthedocs.org/](https://cask.readthedocs.org/)

You maintain a list of packages in a Cask file and run "cask" to automatically download and install them from a repository like MELPA. Like Gemfile or requirements.txt, but for Emacs.

I found this really reduced the number of elisp snippets I've had to write or grab from around the web. Most popular packages are on MELPA, and there's usually a more polished way to accomplish things I was hacking together myself.

</comment><comment><USER17> I hadn't tried Magit before now, but on the suggestion of this blog I'm giving it a look through. Looks good so far. I also enjoy the style the blog is using: anyone know what backend the author is using?

<comment><USER18> One thing I hated about magit was that I couldn't stage multiple files with a region or similar. I'm currently on my phone for the rest of the evening so I won't have chance to check - if you notice this has arrived in your testing, do let me know!

I usually use shell emulator + company for dir/file autocomplete. This is the fastest I've got to staging individuals files or dirs, especially with projects that have a dir depth bigger than 1.

<comment><USER19> > stage multiple files with a region or similar

This feature has been available for some time, I believe. In magit-status, just select with region the files and then `s` to stage the highlighted files.

<comment><USER6> It's a little un-intuitive.

Adding git-gutter to the mix will allow staging / reverting at the hunk level.

I should probably note also that in Magit status, the user has to TAB the unstaged file to be able to do region or hunk level staging.

Ideally it would be possible to do it in the buffer in question as well.

Not even git-gutter has region style staging. Hopefully it will be implemented soon. I had a crack at it but time got away from me.

<comment><USER18> Thank you for this - git-gutter looks awesome. I wasn't aware of staging hunks too so I've learned about 2 things :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Is it weird that I wish somebody would make a terminal-ized version of newer editors like Atom/ST/Brackets?

<comment><USER21> How else can you screen/tmux your work? Terminals ftw.

<comment><USER22> There are other client/server solutions than VT100 terminals. X11 being one of them. And you can run a remote Emacs server and connect to it via emacsclient without being constrained by several emulators as middlemen.

Plan 9's sam had a similar client/server switch, mostly because the programmers didn't really like a) character graphics and b) their host systems.

<comment><USER21> That's a good point. I've never written a client that is "multi-interface re- entrant" like that (I _have_ used and enjoyed emacs-client). The nice thing about character cell terminals is that all the terminal handling falls out for free: I don't need to accommodate for anything (like tmux, or remote access (like ssh)), it Just Happens.

Worth considering (or modeling) how I'd write an emacs-client type of application though.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> An older but still interesting book, just in case: [http://www.amazon.com/Writing-GNU-Emacs-Extensions- Glickstei...](http://www.amazon.com/Writing-GNU-Emacs-Extensions- Glickstein/dp/1565922611)

<comment><USER24> I bought it when it first came out, and it is still on my bookshelf. A decent book, as the Amazon reviews indicate, but not outstanding.He does cover a lot of ground, introducing emacs programming (and Lisp, in general). I did not find the "Comprehensive Example" chapter implementing a crossword puzzle mode as particularly helpful.

Everyone feels like other people do better negotiating car prices, and I feel the same way about "knowing" emacs. I have used it every day for over twenty years and people are still telling me "there are easier ways to do that in emacs."

<comment><USER23> Anything that large will have blind spot for a user. Even commiters might be surprised by some kind of idiom in elisp or in a particular mode. That syndrom can be found in languages. It would be of great value to document this side of things. Some spectrum of learning, showing how everybody travels through and that most people go through the same stages. Maybe how to not waste time or feel frustrated by that process.

ps: emacs should have 'didntknowthat...' as subtitle.

<comment><USER23> pps: I wish for an Emacs rewrite. As a scheme/lambdacalc enthusiast, I love pruning things out to a certain extent, and feel Emacs is too much a bazaar, and would love for it to fork a smaller core mammalian child. Something even more self-documenting [1] and with a stronger fp-ish flavour (when it's not absurd).

The goal, making it easier to learn and understand.

[1] a lot of knowledge about emacs is outside of it both in location (not in the manual) and form (videos, podcasts, static tutorials). This is influenced by the trend for interactive documents (B.Victor, Wolfram) and Notebook/Persistent repls (ipython,...).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> I really like this blog, it's great. Very engaging. Would recommend subscribing to it!

ps thanks for the downvote HN - classy :-)

<comment><USER26> I didn't downvote your post, but I can see why others might feel that it doesn't contribute to the conversation because basically the only possible responses are "Me too" and "You are wrong". Adding the complaint about the downvote would ordinarily get a downvote from me, but I'd already used my vote in search of justice.

Anyway, consider the downvotes editorial feedback and perhaps taking advantage of the opportunity to improve or remove what you have written.

<comment><USER25> My post is about what a great blog it is. I'm fine with my original mark. If anyone wants to remove computer points from me please fire away.

<comment><USER26> And what is your last comment about and how does The comment make HN or the internet better? There are lots of places where typical internet behavior is typically acceptable and often encouraged. HN, for better or worse, is not one of them. That means it can't meet everyone's expectations.

<comment><USER25> It's a community where the consensus is wherever the community decides. If you didn't speak your mind people like me would be the centre, if I didn't speak mine people like you would be the centre.

I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve. I've said my comment, I've re- iterated it. You have made two meta comments about HN that I have zero interest in. Create a new thread on HN meta and write about it.

Again: the author of the book has a great blog and I'd highly recommend subscribing to it.

Have a very positive, non-supercilious day.

<comment><USER26> That such comments lead to more comments of dubious value is something about which we appear to agree and have empirically supported. Hence, the reason people will down vote such comments,

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> I haven't read this, but from the contents it seems like you can learn everything there is in the book from the official Emacs GNU documentation:

[https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/in...](https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/index.html)

<comment><USER28> Wow, what a really mean-spirited comment, and it's the top one (at the time of writing.) -- did you consider what you said here before writing it? Let me propose a rewrite:-

'If you can't afford to buy this, the official emacs GNU documentation is great - [link]'

Instead you first admit you haven't read it, then imply, but in somewhat weasel words, that it doesn't offer anything beyond what the official documentation offers.

I'm a long-term emacs user and I can tell you that while the official docs cover a lot, they provide more of a reference than a guide, so a book like this is really worthwhile.

Keep in mind the author would have dedicated enormous amounts of time and effort to writing this, and technical book writing is very rarely a profitable enterprise.

I think we need a bit more kindness towards people's work (as well as _constructive_ criticism of course) - how do you think the author might feel reading this on such a prominent tech website? Imagine it was something you worked on for hundreds of hours, dismissed in the top comment, how would you feel? We're all humans, and empathy is already lacking enough in our industry, so think a little before posting next time.

<comment><USER29> Actually, good technical writing is among the most reliably lucrative genre of writing.

That might not be saying much, but how many people make money writing poetry or genre fiction?

<comment><USER28> Ha that's a good point ;) but once you factor in opportunity cost for developers, especially ones experienced enough to write a book, it's definitely not a great choice (likely negative.)</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: DMS with Folders, Tags, OCR for PDFs, TIFF and JEPG formats - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/ciur/papermerge <comment><USER2> I liked it a lot!

ABOUT AUTOMATION:

I tried using the demo account and created an automante as follows:

Name: Google related automation

Match: [Gg]oogle

Matching Algorithm: Regular expression

Destination Folder: Google related

I uploaded a PDF (Papermerge DMS — Papermerge documentation.pdf) into the main "Documents" folder. The PDF contains the word "Google". I thought after OCR the document would be moved to the "Google related" folder, but this didn't happened. I waited 10 minutes to be sure.

What am I missing?

ABOUT UX:

Would be useful if after upload the file/folder appear on screen.

I didn't get the Inbox folder meaning. I suppose I can send emails with attachments and the attachments would be stored there?

ABOUT UI:

Should the "Documents" folder appear in a tree-style on the left pane? Maybe collapsed from start?

Tags could have it's own section instead laying hierarchically below/inside "Documents".

I didn't read the documentation on purpose, to check how easy is to a new user start using it.

Thank you!

<comment><AUTHOR> 1\. Automation: you made everything correct. It is intended to work that way - if it failed - it is a bug! 2\. Would be useful if after upload the file/folder appear on screen: I agree! I opened an enhancement ticket on GH. I will fix that part in next release. 3\. I didn't get the Inbox folder meaning. I suppose I can send emails with attachments and the attachments would be stored there?: Correct! Even more, you can import documents from you local storage and all imports will appear in Inbox. 4\. Should the "Documents" folder appear in a tree-style on the left pane? Maybe collapsed from start? Well, in theory yes. In practice it will take some time until UI will look like typical desktop file manager.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> What a great readme! It shows what the project is about with screenshots and multiple installation instructions.

<comment><AUTHOR> thank you!</comment></comment>


Show HN: Facebook Style Hacker News Reader Android App - <AUTHOR> https://abhrajit.com/post/hacker-news-reader-facebook-style/ <comment><AUTHOR> Requesting feedback, improvement scope and feature requests.</comment>


How will crypto apps make money? - <AUTHOR> https://hackernoon.com/how-will-crypto-apps-make-money-a1c5c5d01285 <comment><USER2> Surely apps can make money the same way anyone in the economy does: deliver a service that people are willing to pay for.

The problem is that with bitcoin prices rising so much people are unwilling to actually spend it. The morale of the Pizza story is "hold on to your BTC, don't spend it".

BTC with stable value and maybe light inflation would make it so that it actually functioned like a currency that could be spent without being foolish.

<comment><AUTHOR> Agreed that BTC deflation makes it hard to spend.

Making something people want is necessary but not sufficient to ensure a meaningful revenue model. I would be hesitant to start a decentralized company today planning to make money primarily on ads, data sales, or taking a cut as a middleman. I think there are other solutions available — just want to see us find them.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I think there's a middle ground. Cloud/distributed hybrid apps may be the ticket. I keep envisioning a traditional cloud application with appropriate parts of the data on the blockchain. Keeps users data safe, builds the network and diversifies the company all at once. Looking at it this way, any app could be a "crypto" app.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hybrid apps are definitely part of the story. And if they have a revenue model already, they can keep it. I'm more anxious about new and "fully decentralized" apps like marketplaces.

<comment><USER3> My argument is that neither is mutually exclusive. Ethereum is evidence of that.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I think that eventually all cryptocurrencies will become interchangeable via distributed exchanges which adhere to the same protocol.

The value of a cryptocurrency will be determined primarily by the kinds of people who own and deal with it as their primary method of payment.

<comment><AUTHOR> Certainly seems like we're headed that way. Not sure how it solves the revenue model problem but it'll be simpler for consumers for sure.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> If they have utility tokens for example

</comment><comment><USER6> tldr; I don't know.</comment>


Researchers think they've found the holy grail of secure passwords: using poetry - <AUTHOR> http://www.businessinsider.com/researchers-think-theyve-found-the-holy-grail-of-passwords-using-poetry-2015-10 <comment><USER2> see also [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10439301](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10439301)

especially [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10439844](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10439844)</comment>


Elevator hack (2005) - <AUTHOR> http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/10/17/051017ta_talk_paumgarten

<comment><USER2> That reminded me of some of my favourite YouTube channels -

(<http://www.youtube.com/user/CaptainElevator42189>) (<http://www.youtube.com/user/gluse>)

Just very many videos of people using elevators.</comment>


Petzl comes out against SOPA, after appearing on the list of supporters - <AUTHOR> http://www.petzl.com/us/outdoor/news-2/2011/12/22/petzl-americas-stance-sopa-and-protect-ip <comment><USER2> It's good to see a company clearly state that it wishes to prevent counterfeit goods from harming end users, but that SOPA is not the way to address that problem.

Most of the talk from supporters plays up the "counterfeit" angle, dragging in firemen, soldiers, etc. as examples of who could be harmed by these knockoffs, but all of the push is coming from groups who want to shut down piracy at the expense of the internet and who have nothing physical to protect. It's an ugly bait-and-switch. Fortunately, this dodge no longer seems to be working.

</comment><comment><USER3> It's cool that they published this letter. All that stuff about counterfeiting is not just an abstract concern. Here's a forum thread from early this year about counterfeit biners and ascenders:

[http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1409671/Attention- Pe...](http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1409671/Attention-Petzl-warns- for-fake-Chinese-reproductions)

This stuff has been popping up for a while. It's scary as a climber since your gear failing so far below rated strength could get you killed.

</comment><comment><USER4> > In February, 2011, Petzl did sign on to a letter circulated by the Outdoor > Industry Association supporting government action against intellectual > property theft via "rogue websites." That letter made no mention of any > specific legislation, and support for it was spurred by Petzl's own > encounter with the problem of counterfeit life-safety products.

Ahh, so _that's_ how they're getting supporters... very shady.

<comment><USER5> Yes, very deceitful way to gain "supporters". I just wonder how many companies on that list were duped into signing something like this.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Back in September I sat besides a Petzl employee on a flight into Kathmandu. Petzl had tasked him with teaching snow safety and mountain skills to Nepalis who would otherwise not have access to this instruction.

Plus their gear is great.

<comment><USER7> Really? teaching Nepalis snow safety? That seems amusingly unlikely. Wouldn't that be like teaching Polynesians water safety?

<comment><USER8> My guess is that they were training folks on the safety equipment and procedures that Western mountaineers use, so the Nepalese guides and outfitters don't have a culture clash in an emergency situation. The truth is, modern mountaineering equipment and procedure is really good, even if some aspects the traditional mountain knowledge and ways are timeless and extremely valuable too.

<comment><USER6> Not everyone in Nepal is a guide. All the guys up there are tough as nails, but there isn't much education about safety or equipment. The most advanced tool in a porter's repertoire is a t-shaped walking stick.

Even the Sherpa are relatively recent migrants to the region (~400 years), and the Rai people have only moved into the highlands with the modern demand for labor. By and large they're coming from a tradition of subsistence farming.

As an example, a friend was traveling in the Khumbu last year and his party came across a deceased porter around 6000m. He had presumably been paid off after getting sick and sent down on his own. All they could do was build a cairn over his body.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Excellent response. A couple more of these, and the facade might really start to crumble. Support for this thing is non-existent outside of a few very wealthy organizations, and the more reversals we have like this, the easier it's going to be to make the case against it.

</comment><comment><USER10> This is likely the case with a number of the supporters. It's important to note all the companies who back out of their support -- which is an even stronger signal that not signing in the first place.

It indicates they were hoodwinked!

</comment><comment><USER11> I'm glad to see a company that has very little to do with the internet be so affected by the outreach and feel a need to send out this letter. I use Petzl headlamps and they're great. Plus their site runs on Drupal. Petzl is a-okay in my book.

<comment><USER12> I use a Petzl headlamp when I go backpacking, they make great products. As a side note, headlamps also make great gifts, even for people that won't be using it for outdoor activities. Once you have one you find it can be used for all kinds of things, like when you are fixing something under the sink. I love using mine for reading as well.

<comment><USER8> And I can speak from experience having owned a few Petzl headlamps and some cheapo no-name Chinese headlamps, or even cheapo Chinese headlamps with Eddie Bauer branding. There's a world of difference. I have a Petzl that's 15 years old and works like a champ.

So I can understand them being pissed about counterfeit goods sullying their good name. Now, I'm a little baffled as to why anyone would buy a $5,000+ handbag, but hey, whatever floats your boat. I can also see where designer labels would be desperate to protect their businesses too.

But that's the thing: there's nothing wrong with a company pushing hard to use the law to protect its business. But since lawmakers are supposed to promote the common welfare, they shouldn't just roll over like obedient dogs. The people need to yell about it until the lawmakers wise up.

<comment><USER13> I believe that if the law is immoral then there is something wrong with a company pushing hard to use the law to "protect" it's business. How do you feel about companies dumping toxic waste in poor countries where the law says its fine?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> This shows that all the efforts by the online community to raise awareness about SOPA are having some effect. Keep it up!

</comment><comment><USER15> The issue of counterfeit products is an interesting one, and I agree completely with them it can even come to be a safety issue with some sorts of parts like climbing gear, and airplane and car parts, all of which have counterfeiting problems which have likely resulted in deaths and accidents.

Rather than ban "rogue" overseas web sites offering such goods though, why not have a central registry where counterfeiters can be reported and consumers can check with before buying.

A lady at work was telling me she was going to buy $1000 french designer shoes for $50 from a discount web site. I pointed out to her it was obviously either counterfeit or a credit card stealing site. That stopped her, but not everyone has someone to advise them on these matters. A reputable site that validates claims, to protect the public, would be something useful the government could do, without also giving it power that can be abused to censor free speech.

</comment><comment><USER16> I love the irony of Petzl having a problem with _trademark_ law just as we're having these twin furors over copyright and patent laws. Oh, the wonders of intellectual property law. Anyway, just keep in mind that "intellectual property" is a fake thing, it is the superposition of three distinct classes, as follows.

* Patents cover inventions and systems. They hope to prevent trade secret, thus making public knowledge disadvantageous to publish, by granting temporary global monopolies on physical mechanisms.

* Copyright covers creative works. It hopes to prevent art from being un-monetizeable and thus expensive to create, by granting temporary localized monopolies on creative works.

* Trademarks cover identity and brand. It hopes to prevent "brand dilution" (some sort of passive libel, might we say?), thus making trust-based business difficult; it does this by granting infinite namespaced monopoly on symbols and marks.

Patents and Copyrights are temporary: they exist only for a specified period (20 and 100 years are good approximate figures, but the rules are complex) after which the monopoly disappears; trademarks are infinite: they must be renewed (yearly?) but can be indefinitely.

Patents are global: once one is granted, independent discovery is not a defence (though it may help prove that the patent was obvious and thus shouldn't've been granted); copyright is local: once one is granted, independent discover _is_ a defence (though the greater the independent discovery, the more suspicious the claim); trademarks are namespaced: independent discovery and use valid if it "doesn't cause confusion", that is, if the entities trademarked don't do similar-enough things that someone might mean one and get the other.

Thus a (hypothetical) patent on linked lists would make it illegal to use linked lists anywhere, anytime until it ran out, for any reason, and with any (obvious-enough) implementation. One could not patent a poem specifically, though one could (concievably) patent a mechanism of constructing them. One could not patent the Apple logo, though one could concievably patent a particular way of drawing it, or the technique by which plastic is molded in its shape (if this method is sufficiently novel).

One could not copyright a linked list, though one could patent the contents of its cells, and one could copyright the use of a linked list if this itself presented a creative contribution (perhaps a linked list of versions of MS Windows, where linkage underscores the fact that one was based on another). One could copyright a poem, and in fact any creativity-baren modifications (fixing typos, rendering in HTML, a program that prints the poem), though not creativity-requiring modifications (rendering to music, translations, or a literary criticism of it) (all of these might be more or less tenuous depending on exact circumstances). One could copyright the Apple logo, but only if you could argue that its precise configuration is an artistic work, and this would have to be done for every specific variant every: if I made an outline of the logo and filled it in with a cutout of Jobs's face, that would not be covered.

One could not trademark a linked list, unless the linked list was a trademark of my particular trademark or brand; with a lot of twisting the law, one might imagine Lisp trademarking the use of linked lists everywhere, but this wouldn't apply to programs, just other programming langauges (and of course, this is pretty nebulous, trademarks are actually supposed to be quite concrete). One could trademark a poem, if this poem was the canonical definition of your identity, but it'd have to be a short poem, since long poems are too long to read to just be an identity, and it'd only apply to that entity in its field: a plumber, a physicist, and a computer company could all have the same poem as their trademark. Finally, you'd trademark the Apple logo since it is the core symbolic identity of Apple.

\</comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment>-----

So for the issue at hand, Petzl could be concerned about three things. First: someone could be stealing exactly how the mechanism of carabiners, headlamps, and life safety equipment and building atop this idea without paying Petzl due credit. That would be hurting Petzl by removing its competitive advantage it gained from discovering new types of safety equipment. For example, Paul Petzl has patent 5357657 on carabiners; he should be rewarded for discovering the idea and telling the world about it. That patent still has 2 years of life (by my guess), so Petzl might be concerned. But that's not the issue they're bringing up here.

Second: someone could be copying the exact design of their carabiners, something they might consider an artistic form, and copying this art to other people without forcing them to pay Petzl for the privilage. That would make it more expensive for them to produce similar art in the future. However, they might be hard-pressed to argue that the artistic merit of carabiners and similar are what they sell. This is also not the issue Petzl is concerned about here.

Third: someone might be making things that claim to be Petzl things, but aren't, and be thus both stealing Petzl costumers (illigitimately growing his business by hurting customers) and be hurting Petzl by producing inferior product or support, reducing trust in Petzl the entity. This would hurt customers by making trust-based business hard to do, and make it hard for Petzl to pride itself on anything but prices, since everything else it sells (quality, support, practices) rely on being able to identity Petzl products. This _is_ what Petzl is concerned about here.

\</comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment>-----

SOPA (by my knowledge) mostly deals with reforming _copyright_ law, not patent or trademark law. Thus it would do nothing for Petzl (beyond doing the evil we suspect it will to everyone).

Finally, I've always loved Petzl gear (I have use for a good headlamp, and really, who doesn't?), and this is yet another reason for me to support them. Not that they take the default position, but by taking the time to check and publicly state that their "support" was a mistruth at best, a lie at worst.

<comment><USER17> Just FWIW, from what I've heard from people in the pharma industry, similar concerns over seriously sub-par counterfeit products are why they support legislation like this. It's not so much that they're worried about profits (counterfeit drugs don't hurt revenues by any significant factor for big drug companies), but that people can end up dying because of counterfeit drugs, either because they contain contaminants or do not contain the right amounts of the drugs that they should contain so the conditions end up untreated without the patients realizing. Both, I'm told, have happened in the real world on many occasions.

Not that this makes SOPA any more reasonable, of course, as it will cause a lot of trouble in other areas. But the anti-counterfeiting angle is bringing in quite a bit of support for it, and in many case it really is based on legitimate safety concerns rather than greed.

<comment><USER18> Surely we can come up with a better technical solution for this!

Currently pharmaceutical companies try to prove authenticity by e.g. printing little holograms on the pillboxes, which is not very effective since pirates can print holograms too. How about this instead:

Each pillbox comes with a little paper which contains a random-looking string of characters and a trademark. It is folded-over and sealed so the contents are not readable. When an end-consumer wants to know if their drug is authentic or not, they tear open the paper, go to a website operated by (say) the US Patent and Trademark Office, and type in the trademark and character string (or scan a QR code). The website says "authentic"/"inauthentic"/"this string was already used".

On the production side, you can set it up so that the factory needs to communicate with a central company server to allocate codes, so you get an accurate count of how many codes are produced and if it matches the amount of drugs manufactured. This way, if an insider starts leaking codes to pirates it can be noticed quickly.

<comment><USER19> Your talking about people who buy pills of the internet from spam emails. What makes you think "Remember to type in the letters on the government's site to check it" is something that would happen at all?

Fake pills is not a technical problem, so a technical solution is not required. You're just shifting blame to the customer.

<comment><USER18> Well, I wasn't primarily thinking about the internet pills. In many developing countries (particularly in south-east asia), something like 5-30% of all drugs are counterfeits without proper active ingredients (see e.g. <http://www.bmj.com/content/324/7341/800.full>). There are many skilled and motivated users (doctors) failing to detect the fakes because the packaging is identical.

Similarly, the rock climbers mentioned earlier in the thread probably would also be motivated to check authenticity?

I find the "a technical solution is not required" comment a bit odd. Spam is not a technical problem either, but we still use spam filters.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Good. They are climbing up the cliff of my opion on any company that supported this.

</comment><comment><USER21> They need to do more. Pull out of the US Chamber of Commerce, then we know you are serious.</comment>


Show HN: Is It Old? Simple link-age checker - <AUTHOR> http://www.isitold.com Weekend project, simple thing that uses tweetmeme's API to check link age. So check here before you post stuff on Hacker News! <comment><USER2> That is really really cool. I tried it on many of the links on <http://news.ycombinator.com/newest> and they're almost all old. HN should integrate this into the submission process.

</comment><comment><USER3> DEAD? [http://www.isitold.com/results?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgoogle.com%2...](http://www.isitold.com/results?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgoogle.com%2F)

<comment><AUTHOR> ABORT.</comment></comment>