Final design of VLC 2.0 for Mac - <AUTHOR> http://feepk.posterous.com/final-design-of-vlc-20-for-mac

<comment><USER2> This looks rather complicated.

I'm not sure whether this is meant to be a media organiser or a media player – it looks like it may be attempting to do both, but succeeding at doing neither well.

I would have been happier if the route taken was more similar to QuickTime, pairing minimal, well considered and incredibly simple UI with VLC's bulletproof playback.

<comment><USER3> I've been told by unnamed Apple employees that VLC is the #2 application on OS X for bug reports (the #1 being Safari). Whilst I too have had very little problems with VLC's stability - apparently the whole truth is far different.

<comment><USER4> To be fair, it's the number two crasher for the same reason Safari is the number one crasher.

VLC is very stable nowadays, but just like Safari tons of people use it, and people ask it to process really random and broken data without batting an eyelid. Broken or corrupted video? VLC will play it. Half downloaded file in some obscure format? VLC. Bittorrent download that only got to 75%? Yes, VLC will play it (glitching through the missing parts).

That does result in crashes, because unlike say, QuickTime which will simply refuse to play something if it doesn't like the cut of it's jib, VLC will attempt to play anything and everything you throw at it. Just like Safari will attempt to render any data you throw at it.

<comment><USER5> VLC crashes reasonably often for me. More than anything else (besides Mail.app after Lion came out, which kept crashing while typing emails... ugh. and still does, but rarely). The cause is watching videos at 2x-3x speed and then skipping around in it quickly (usually with the 1 min jump forward command a few times).

Maybe the video files I'm watching suck, but it shouldn't crash when seeking or playing just because the data sucks.

On a related note, sometimes the sound breaks. You hear a popping sound and to fix it you have to do stuff like slow the video down then change the volume. Then it fixes itself then go back how it was.

This seems to be related to particular videos, presumably they suck in some way. But it still shouldn't happen. Or at least it should fix itself automatically without me having to do the equivalent of punching the TV to get it to try again.

I can deal with sounds getting garbled here and there when playing at high speed if it can't keep up for some reason, but it shouldn't stay broken indefinitely until I manually fiddle with the playback speed and volume and maybe pause/unpause. That is VLC's fault. Glitch the broken parts but then _stop glitching afterwards_ please. That's how visual issues work (sometimes some frames are screwed up but it fixes itself at the next keyframe I think).

Maybe higher speed playback is an area that receives little attention and I guess it can't be the cause of most VLC crashes since most people never use it. But still, please don't tell me VLC is stable. And there's no reason bad data should cause crashes or indefinite non-recovery from glitches.

(However, it has gotten more stable over time. It used to crash considerably more, and there was a nasty bug when a video ended in fullscreen mode (crash? i actually forgot) which they have fixed, albeit by wasting about 5 seconds of your time in video ending mode with no way to exit it or use your computer, before it goes back to window mode or accepts commands.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I'm currently downloading this now to make a fair comparison. I always saw VLC as I see VIM, it's an editor, it's great for editing, but it's not an IDE. My sudden though upon seeing this is something similar, VLC is a great media player, but I wasn't expecting it to become a Media Library/Organiser/Environment.

I'll offer some feedback:

       - This sidebar is useless. Once I've hidden the unwanted   items I am left with Library -> Playlist. I don't care about   Internet/My Computer/Local Network. This design only works in  iTunes because it has more to offer such as Playlists!
       - There needs to be a way to go back to the previous gui, perhaps a 'Mini mode player'
       - Only 3 options in the Playlist/Library view of columns, "Name, Author Duration".
       - I'm not sure why My Music/My Pictures/My Videos exists.

<comment><USER7> If you do not like the Media Library, then, don't use it. It does get on your way.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Wow, I'm blown away. VLC has always has the best interface in OS X of all platforms but now the others aren't even comparable. I hope they have big things in store for the Windows & Linux interface, the lag is even more glaring now.

In case anyone is looking for a download link, here is 2.0 RC1: [http://download.videolan.org/pub/testing/vlc-2.0.0-rc1/macos...](http://download.videolan.org/pub/testing/vlc-2.0.0-rc1/macosx/)

<comment><USER7> Yep, we are going to work on other platforms, in the next releases...

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I don't understand the negativity. Am I using the same VLC 1.x as everyone else? One that has two different windows, one for controls and one for video, with the one for controls always showing a playlist? If anything, the new design de-emphasizes the playlist and reduces complexity.

Looking forward to it. I used to use Perian, but Lion's Finder does not allow one to _not_ show previews of files anymore. Navigating through a directory of videos with the arrow keys is like walking through a minefield now. Every tap will trigger the preview generation of some bizarre video plugin and before you get to the file you want to watch, something crashes. I keep Perian uninstalled to get rid of the previews now, and use VLC for everything.

</comment><comment><USER9> The spacing is off. The gap between the maximum volume icon and the toggles on the lower left is inconsistent with the rest of the spacing in the bottom bar area, as is the spacing on the gaps between the chrome edge and the button groups (left side looks like it has a bigger gap than the right).

The search bar border should not be flush with the border of it's containing view, maybe a 3-4 pixel gap would be pleasing.

<comment><USER7> <http://trac.videolan.org/vlc/>

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> As long as I can disable the Media Library I'll be fine.

I use VLC because it _doesn't_ thrust another library organization task in front of me.

<comment><USER7> You don't need to use it. It will work fine, as before.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I began switching from VLC to MPlayerX for most of my media files because I liked the auto-hiding UI, showing only the video when not hovering the application. Will this be the same deal? If so, I'll switch back on release- day.

<comment><USER11> I've tried it now, and sadly this is not the case. There also appears to be a very annoying two-second delay between using the soundlevel-controller and the level of the sound actually changing. I would love to see both of these things resolved in a release in a not too distant future. If you happen to have had certain reasons for not making an auto-hiding UI by default, please provide it as an option instead.

<comment><USER7> Yes, those things are on the track.

The important was to put back all into one Window. Now, this is done, so it can evolve correctly.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> "NB: Development of the interface wouldn't have been possible without a stipend from Google Inc. as part of Google Summer of Code 2011, which allowed me to work on it fulltime without worries."

So it's Google's fault.

</comment><comment><USER13> I'm staying with MPlayerX because of its non-intrusive, simple design. This toolbar too bluntly tries to mimic hardware video players, and takes worst from them.

"Play", which is about the only useful control the toolbar except for the slider, is located in the lower left corner between two "Move" buttons. On a 17' screen, it is too easy to miss. This makes it useless. I would _hate_ to skip a couple of scenes the moment I wanted to pause just because I missed about 16 pixels.

I can't see the point of "Stop" button. It's not a home video player. If you want to stop the video, just close the window. If you want to pause, just pause. You don't need a stop.

Then there are these "play order" buttons. Come on, do you really watch 20 videos in row? There's a YouTube for that. Useless.

Equalizer?

It's painful to see so little space left for the slider. _People use toolbar to scroll through the movie!_ Finding the exact scene will be extraordinary difficult because unneeded buttons take most of the space.

Do an experiment. Release a beta version that tracks each click. Generate usage heat map for all controls on the toolbar. Make most used items large and simple to hit (place them in the center). Get rid of the rest.

I'm also staying with MPlayerX because of its preferences window. Last time I checked, VLC's preferences were complicated as hell, and there were three different ways of setting subtitle font, none of them working.

<comment><USER7> > I can't see the point of "Stop" button. It's not a home video player. If you > want to stop the video, just close the window. If you want to pause, just > pause. You don't need a stop.

No, _you_ do not need a stop button, in _your_ use. Stop and pause are very different for Discs and streams (and timeshifting). How do you navigate in your playlist when the video is just paused?

> Then there are these "play order" buttons. Come on, do you really watch 20 > videos in row? There's a YouTube for that. Useless.

Open a folder of video or audio. You need next and previous buttons.

> Equalizer?

Audio, Music and badly recorded video.

> It's painful to see so little space left for the slider. People use toolbar > to scroll through the movie! Finding the exact scene will be extraordinary > difficult because unneeded buttons take most of the space.

This will be fixed in a next release, but this is already what you want in fullscreen.

> Do an experiment. Release a beta version that tracks each click. Generate > usage heat map for all controls on the toolbar. Make most used items large > and simple to hit (place them in the center). Get rid of the rest.

Guess what, we did it... And all the buttons that are present are very much used. Ouch!

> Last time I checked, VLC's preferences were complicated as hell, and there > were three different ways of setting subtitle font, none of them working.

[http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss271/onenglish/vlc_prefe...](http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss271/onenglish/vlc_preference.jpg) does not seem complicated to me.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> And for Linux, we need the robustness and functionality of VLC with the interface and integration of Totem.

<comment><USER7> What integration is missing?

<comment><USER14> The VLC GUI is sort of a mess. I think it's QT but many QT applications look just fine in Gnome. VLC doesn't. The keyboard shortcuts sometimes work, sometimes they don't: obviously a focus thing or something. The looks is different and somehow old. Various widgets aren't standard and don't always work in a standard way. For some damn reason, VLC toggles the state of the super key which I use for many keyboard shortcuts, and this means typing text doesn't work if VLC is running. Moving back and forth is cumbersome: you just can't use the arrow keys but you have to use shift and or ctrl/alt. Those can theoretically be configured but my VLC hasn't believed my new keybindings for years. The popup menus flicker when opened during a movie and they can go really deep. Changing some settings in mid-play causes restarting the movie from beginning while some settings are lost after switching DVD titles/chapters.

There's undoubtedly a lot of functionality in VLC but I kind of prefer the way of the Gnome school: things should be simple by default, and advanced configuration can be arranged in some advanced way, if needed. For example, transcoding into a file could be just a "Save as..." with a simple selection of formats. Now it opens a complex dialog with several tabs all over. Using that monster I don't always manage to reliably produce transcoded video files with VLC that generally open in any other player, and _at least I know something_ about video encoding and container formats. Even opening a DVD disk requires clicking through a dialog whereas Totem just... well, starts playing whatever disk happens to be in the drive.

On the other hand, the quality and robustness of VLC is outstanding. A simple, Gnome compliant GUI plugin for vlc would make it a true pleasure.

<comment><USER7> > The keyboard shortcuts sometimes work, sometimes they don't

This is fixed in latest versions of VLC.

> Various widgets aren't standard

Which one ? All of them are standard but the volume slider and you can change it.

> The popup menus flicker when opened during a movie and they can go really > deep.

I do not understand what you say.

> Changing some settings in mid-play causes restarting the movie from > beginning while some settings are lost after switching DVD titles/chapters.

This is fixed since a long time.

> For example, transcoding into a file could be just a "Save as..." with a > simple selection of formats.

Good idea.

<comment><USER14> I'm at 1.1.12 that came with Ubuntu. These problems have been around for years: I'm glad they're fixed now (obviously in 1.1.13?) but I must say they apparently weren't a priority for the VLC developers.

I'm glad to hear that the keyboard shortcuts have been fixed, too. The super/Windows key problem was particularly nasty: you couldn't leave VLC running on the background if you wanted to use other programs.

This apparently means that as of 1.1.13, I can configure away the braindead movement keybindings. By default, I have to keep shift and/or ctrl pressed to jump around the movie. Plain left/right do _what_? Go to a mysterious Next/Prev or something? What's that and who uses that? Totem got the keyboard controls right here, unfortunately. Totem doesn't even need the modifier keys because right is a bigger jump forward than left is backward, so you can just use two keys to jiggle yourself to the right position.

The flickering popup menus can be reproed like this: play a movie (a dvd preferably), go fullscreen, right-click on the screen and try to navigate to some other DVD title or chapter. This involves a lot deep submenus and they flicker frantically while the movie is playing. Not a biggie but this has been there forever, too, and gives a shoddy impression of the user interface that adds up.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> VLC needs quicker access to subtitles, and they need to search for subtitles on the web, like BSPlayer does it (if they already do this, then it must be hidden very well, and I'm not aware of it).

<comment><USER7> [http://addons.videolan.org/content/show.php/Subtitles+finder...](http://addons.videolan.org/content/show.php/Subtitles+finder+1.04?content=141787)

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Too much of negativity...

It seems good to me ! UI is not that bad. Infact I prefer having media list in app. I anyways don't like current playlist UI (which I use often). Its better than that.

Moreover, I'd love to have some feature where I can include my media path once (it may be iTunes Media Library), and the app automatically shows files at those locations. It'd be even better if it could automatically show Movie name/thumb imdb link etc.

</comment><comment><USER17> This feels like Amarok 2.0. Amarok 1.4 was great in its simplicity, then they brought in a so called UI Design Expert and the whole thing just fell apart.

<comment><USER18> I've been using the dev branch of VLC for a while now, and the complexity is very easy to ignore. It's not nearly as bad as what happened to Amarok.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> More than the UI widgets, I think the key part of the interface of a video player is whether the program is smart enough to (at least offer to) resume playing a video from wherever it was when that file was last closed.

It has always slightly boggled my mind that VLC, and many other players, don't do this.

<comment><USER11> MPlayerX (for OS X) does this, but personally I would prefer if it didn't. But that's probably because I watch a lot of short clips I'd rather have restarted, than long movies which I'd want to keep watching where I left them.

<comment><USER20> You know you can turn that off, right?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> I mostly turn these features off and get rid of the boarder and controls and just have a floating video.

</comment><comment><USER22> Can we have a better UI for subtitles? Maybe double clicking on a subtitle file automatically adds it to the current video, just like GOM. I seem to remember behavior like this on the Windows VLC. That seems to be my only peeve with VLC, as a non-native English speaker.

<comment><USER7> You can drag and drop them.

Double-clicking could be a cool idea, add it to our trac, and we'll code it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> Lately I'm using the excellent MPlayerX from the Mac App Store. It's lighter and easier.

</comment><comment><USER24> all i need is a windowless experience. minimal UI please? I've been a VLC user for 4 years until I realized I wanted a minimal UI footprint. It's video! UI is secondary.

I've been using MPlayerX, anyone else tried it?

<comment><USER25> Ctrl + H (at least on Windows) drops you to a "Minimal Interface". That's an option in the "View" menu as well.

Granted, it still shows a window title bar, but this _is_ pretty minimal..

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> All I need from VLC is the option to automatically save where I left off in a video so when I relaunch it, I don't have to manually navigate to where I was last.

</comment><comment><USER27> I don't really see the need for VLC on the Mac. I use quick time with the Perian plugin and I can play pretty most common filetypes. What does VLC offer that my current setup doesn't?

(incidentally, I rarely watch video directly on my Mac these days. I mostly stream to my xbox with Rivit or to my iPad using Air Video).

</comment><comment><USER28> I'll be keeping that 1.X download handy. Interested to at least give this a chance.

</comment><comment><USER29> that looks much cleaner than previous designs. congrats.

</comment><comment><USER30> Oh no it looks horrible.

<comment><USER11> While I'm not saying that I don't partially agree with you, please provide your reasons for thinking so.</comment></comment>


Facebook is able to identify music and TV when writing status update - <AUTHOR> https://www.facebook.com/help/android-app/369513256545845 <comment><USER2> Is it just me or is it _beyond_ creepy ?

Location, sound ... soon they will be collecting biometric data as well, "just to get room temperature, promise".

<comment><USER3> Look, I know that nowdays it's popular to pay attention to security and privacy, and I understand that it's important. But can we for once not immediately assume ill intentions?

I mean come on, do you seriously believe that programmers at facebook are rubbing their hands and laughing at how smart they are, figuring out how to turn on your mike for 15 seconds? Is that _really_ what you believe is going on?

Or is it just trendy to scream "creepy! surveilance!" on every occasion?

<comment><USER4> I don't believe the programmers at Facebook have evil intentions - I think they're just trying to build something that's technically cool. The problem is the MBAs will trying to build something businessy out of it and won't care whether it requires evil if it might possible make them some money.

There can also be a temporal factor. Today there might be no evil intentions but in a couple years someone might find that "we have this whole data set we could do X with".

<comment><USER5> So you think the engineers are innocent and altruistic, and the MBAs are evil, huh?

What an incredibly naive viewpoint. Which one is Mr. Zuckerberg? I recall him have a few choice words for the "suckers" who sign up for his service and hand over their data.

<comment><USER4> Of course not - I'm skeptical of everyone's intentions and specifically think through how to best protect my own privacy (I don't have a Facebook account). Of course, Facebook didn't choose "Don't be evil" as their slogan so you can assume the standard "Make money by any means possible" slogan. Yes, I'm appropriately jaded.

In any case, the comment I responded to was pretty specific in asking us to trust that the programmers motives were pure. I wanted to point out that things could turn creepy later in the business life-cycle even if the original motives were non-evil.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> "Are you recording my conversations, Facebook?"

"Of course not, silly! We don't listen to your conversations, we just _identify the things you 're listening to_, of course!"

0_O

<comment><USER7> > we just identify the things you're listening to, of course

...by _recording the conversation_ so it can be uploaded to the server that does the recognition, because nobody is doing this kind of processing client- side.

Just like the idea that "streaming" is somehow different than "downloading", the commonly-repeated claims that this kind of technology is only "processing" without mentioning where the data is processed is a carefully constructed _lie_ designed to frame the discussion.

The use of propaganda to confuse how their product works suggests that Facebook (et al) knows there would be resistance if they offered the same features plainly. In my opinion this should count as _mens rea_.

<comment><USER8> > because nobody is doing this kind of processing client-side.

This is a half truth at best. Audio recognition can be based on one of two techniques. The first is audio watermarking which is completely client side (albeit not applicable for this FB feature) or fingerprinting. They'll likely use the latter which records a segment of audio, does the rough audio equivalent of a hash on it and then send it the server for an optimised pattern match. It's somewhat unlikely they'll send raw audio to their servers although that's an assumption.

<comment><USER9> I mean, it's an assumption that's got some known counterexamples. For example, Google Now stores the raw audio from every time you activate it / dictate a question on an Android device. It's not out of the question to expect that Facebook might be keeping raw audio data to process later / test.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Android is in desperate need of allowing users to change permission for app. It's ridiculous that the application decides what it has access to (and android it is not making it easier with a bad permission granularity). And I believe this functionality was in some pre-release 5.0 versions. They removed it because apps would just crash if permissions were removed. However, there are apps that solve this (for rooted phones) by providing dummy (null) data on API calls that you blocked.

For example, there is absolutely no reason my facebook app should ever have access to a microphone.

<comment><USER11> Android 6.0 has the functionality you describe - there's a warning if you try to disable it for certain apps (presumably for older API levels) though that it may cause them to crash. I imagine this'll go away with time.

<comment><USER12> I just got a Motorola Moto G to replace an aging iPhone 5s. I do like Android, but there are so many features of it that I find just completely irksome.

For example, Google release Android 6.0 but I can't upgrade until Motorola decide when and if I can update my phone. Why can't I upgrade at the same time as everyone else, like on iOS?

Second is the abysmal permissions system which grants access to everything and anything - else you can't talk to your friends on Whatsapp.

<comment><USER13> >> Why can't I upgrade at the same time as everyone else, like on iOS?

Because Google doesn't control updates for your phone and most likely neither does Motorola, complain to your carrier. The carrier has the option to offer a vanilla Android that can be updated whenever new versions are available, but most don't to offer their own customized versions.

<comment><USER12> I bought the phone from Amazon, SIM-free, so I'm not sure if Vodafone are the right people to complain to here?

<comment><USER13> Nope, you're probably on your own in that case.

<comment><USER12> > Nope, you're probably on your own in that case.

Right, and this is the very problem with Android.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> This seems to be kicking up a fuss over nothing, and any controversy disappears once you read how to use the feature in question:

 _Using your microphone and music apps lets you share the TV and music you're currently playing to your posts.

To identify and share what you're listening to or watching:

1\. Tap Status on your News Feed or tap Write Post on your Timeline.

2\. Wait for us to identify what you're listening to or watching. You'll know if we're searching for audio matches if you see [an animated icon] moving.

3\. Once a match is found, tap [an icon] to select the thing you'd like to share and then fill in your status update.

4\. Tap Post._

[https://www.facebook.com/help/android- app/710615012295337](https://www.facebook.com/help/android- app/710615012295337)

<comment><USER15> The fuss is about the data sent to Facebook's servers for "identification". You can make the decision to post it or not, but Facebook knows it in either case.

<comment><USER14> >The fuss is about the data sent to Facebook's servers for "identification". You can make the decision to post it or not, but Facebook knows it in either case.

But it's OK for Shazam or Soundhound?

At which point is a feature _just what it says on the tin_?

<comment><USER16> Their main functionality is that data, which user knows before installing the app.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Although I agree with the general concerns raised in this thread FB is not sending raw audio to its servers and thus is not "listening" to you. The majority of work is done on the client-side. Specifically, a short audio sample is analysed client-side and turned into an audio fingerprint (the rough audio equivalent of hashing a value). That fingerprint alone is sent to the server for matching. Note that there is no way to reverse that process (hence the hash analogy) to get audible sounds out of it. Of course, this is all based on the assumption that Facebook is telling it like it is but given the fact that the difference in bandwidth use is an order of magnitude that's very easy to check.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> This is an opt-in feature, and is for the Android app.

<comment><USER17> So it will add up to your GPS data..

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> I wonder whether the reaction to this differs based on location of the user. Are European users more worried about this than US-based users?

</comment><comment><USER19> And people complain when aliens use rectal probes. Facebook's ultimate game is to keep you entirely within its universe, know everything you know, and ensure the advertisers have exclusive access to you and your information. It's the only way to grow revenues for a free service and justify a crazy stock price.

</comment><comment><USER20> Privacy concerns aside, I'd be very interested on how they're doing this on a technical level. Does anyone know if they've published a post on how this is done yet? Or have any ideas on how they think it's being done?

<comment><USER21> It's called "audio fingerprinting" and it basically converts a snippet of audio from your phone is something similar to a hash of that audio. Then, using some clever algorithms, it can be quickly matched against a database of existing hashes. Because of the way the algorithm works the match doesn't have to be either 0% or 100%, because realistically whatever is recorded on your phone will never exactly match the original.

Disclaimer: I used to work at a company that built this type of technology.

<comment><USER20> That is interesting, I didn't know it had a name. Now I have something to look for, Thanks!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> That's one very scary invasion of privacy masked as a "feature".

</comment><comment><USER23> They introduced similar feature with football (soccer) this weekend, or earlier and I didn't notice.

When one of the teams I like is playing a match, the placeholder for post status is replaced with something asking my opinion about the match and a football icon is added.

Which is a decent idea to get more people updating their statuses and posting more.

Regarding privacy, etc. Eh, damn, it gets boring when so many comments are about how facebook is stealing your data and what not for every post like this. Yes, we all know that and no need to remind about it every time.

<comment><USER24> There's a difference, though: you explicitly told Facebook what you like, and it's acting on it. You pressed "like" on your team, and Facebook can check if it's playing right now. However, this is different: you didn't tell Facebook "hey search what show I'm watching".

Regarding the "it gets boring": yes, it's boring, but until it changes we will continue pointing it out. Because if you don't do it, people forget. We end up taking it for granted. Tell me how many people on Facebook know "Facebook steals their data" and how many of them actually act on it. What actually happens is that people have a vague idea of the privacy issues but, because "we all know it" and "it's boring" it doesn't get discussed and we end up accepting it.

<comment><USER23> >>> What actually happens is that people have a vague idea of the privacy issues but, because "we all know it" and "it's boring" it doesn't get discussed and we end up accepting it.

After the Snowden leaks, pretty much everyone on HN is aware of the issues. So some are strongly against it and are vocal, and others silently accept it and don't think it's possible to convince them otherwise.

But anyway, thank you for your nice, calm response to my semi-raging post :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Just turn off microphone access for the Facebook app, or don't give it access to begin with. Even with android, you should have that option in the latest version.

</comment><comment><USER26> I looked through a few of the related questions. Is there any mention of whether or not the snippets are stored beyond the time of analysis?

<comment><USER27> If you're not in the USA or Canada, then your contract is with Facebook Ireland, which falls under EU Data Protection law. One thing this means is that Facebook is required to give you a copy of all personal data it has on you, if you ask for it.

If/When this feature is available outside the USA, then one could use it and then make a data protection request to find out if they keep it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> it's new if it's new to you but this started happening a year ago: [http://newsroom.fb.com/news/2014/05/a-new-optional-way-to- sh...](http://newsroom.fb.com/news/2014/05/a-new-optional-way-to-share-and- discover-music-tv-and-movies/)

</comment><comment><USER29> Interesting that it's only enabled in the United States right now, could this be due to stricter privacy laws in other parts of the world?

</comment><comment><USER30> I actually think it's pretty cool that they can identify what you're watching on TV

</comment><comment><USER31> What if someone logs into facebook during a murder, could it be considered surveillance?

<comment><USER13> No. As of right now Facebook is not a government entity.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> Naturally, anyone within earshot of an idiot with a smartphone has opted in as well?

</comment><comment><USER33> And people wonder why I use the browser version!

</comment><comment><USER34> Phone - meet soldering gun. I am becoming more serious about installing physical breaker behind the mic and camera on whatever device I get my hands on.

<comment><USER35> That wouldn't be a very useful phone anymore.

<comment><USER34> It will be - I just connect a slider when I want it turned on

<comment><USER36> A soldering gun is a plumbing tool. It's far too big for working on phones, and it's likely to damage them with induced current. You need a soldering iron or a hot air rework station.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> Lol not sure if its good/bad news..

</comment><comment><USER38> and i still won't use facebook.

</comment><comment><USER39> Anyone who has a facebook account deserves this kind of spying.

<comment><USER40> Is that also true of anybody who is in the same room as those with facebook accounts?

<comment><USER39> Yes. If you don't block facebook on your network then you get what you deserve. If you have friends or acquaintances who openly use facebook next to you then you get what you deserve.

<comment><USER40> > If you don't block facebook on your network then you get what you deserve.

Also should I run a cell phone jammer?

> If you have friends or acquaintances who openly use facebook next to you > then you get what you deserve.

I think I just got trolled here.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Will your job weather the age of robots and automation? - <AUTHOR> http://www.inc.com/young-entrepreneur-council/how-to-determine-if-your-business-can-weather-the-age-of-automation.html?cid=sf01001&sr_share=twitter <comment><USER2> Not looking forward to an age when software is able to listen to requirements and auto-generate the required software. Seems inevitable. What happens to the software engineering profession then? Yikes!

<comment><USER3> Such software has been available for decades and the sky has not fallen yet, e.g., "Computer-aided software engineering (CASE)":

[https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=ca...](https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=case+software+tools)</comment></comment>


Ed Felten named FTC's Chief Technologist - <AUTHOR> http://ftc.gov/opa/2010/11/cted.shtm

<comment><USER2> Here's his own post on Freedom to Tinker: [http://www.freedom-to- tinker.com/blog/felten/dr-felten-goes-...](http://www.freedom-to- tinker.com/blog/felten/dr-felten-goes-washington)

I still can't figure out what a Chief Technologist does beyond "advise".

<comment><USER3> That sounds like more than enough to keep him busy.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I know that this is rather cynical, but could the purpose of this appointment be to subdue Felten? His advice could certainly be ignored for the most part and his activities outside of the agency will receive less attention.</comment>


The Navy Has Top Secret Classified Video of an Infamous UFO Incident - <AUTHOR> https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/wxe54z/the-navy-has-secret-classified-video-of-an-infamous-ufo-incident <comment><USER2> It also says it's the same length as the one everyone has seen. It may be higher resolution, but I doubt there's anything new here.

<comment><AUTHOR> If the video doesn't show anything new then how could releasing it be a "national security issue" as claimed ?

<comment><USER3> The resolution or general fidelity of the video is likely higher than the government wants to show publicly. It's about hiding capability Intel.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'm more interested in the "Top Secret" slideshow mentioned by the Navy. Perhaps more information about these UFO's was gathered by the Nimitz than has already been revealed.</comment>


Ask HN: Is there a way to run/port a Pygame(Python lin) to the web client ? - <AUTHOR>

I have used Django for web development and have written some games using pygame. But, is there a way to port the game to the Web ? Or are there any libraries that would help me do that ? <comment><USER2> This is a non-trivial problem.</comment>


One Hundred Books in April from Hacker News - <AUTHOR> http://toptalkedbooks.com/hackernews/201708 <comment><USER2> What's with all these book aggregate sites lately? It seems like the new ToDo list project.

[http://hackernewsbooks.com/](http://hackernewsbooks.com/) [http://www.dev- books.com/](http://www.dev-books.com/) [http://toptalkedbooks.com/](http://toptalkedbooks.com/) [http://reddittopbooks.com/tech/](http://reddittopbooks.com/tech/)

<comment><USER3> Lazy way to get some 'passive' income by letting others curate content and slap your affiliate tags on it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I've clearly not mentioned What Computers Still Can't Do in comments enough to make What Computers Still Can't Do appear on this list, which is a shame as I love What Computers Still Can't Do, and What Computers Still Can't Do is very relevant to this community of programmers with much technical skill, but little philosophical background.

<comment><USER5> Currently working in Operations and hence automation and robotics a current fashionable theses, I'm actually genuinely interested in the book What Computers Still Can't Do.

<comment><USER4> Try this review of What Computers Still Can't Do from 1993.

[http://philosophy.uchicago.edu/faculty/files/haugeland/dreyf...](http://philosophy.uchicago.edu/faculty/files/haugeland/dreyfus.pdf)

It might help to know that What Computers Still Can't Do (1992) is a slight update to What Computers Can't Do (1972).

This review was written by John Haugeland who in his own right was an influential, pioneering, and much loved name in the field of the philosophy of AI.

<comment><USER5> Thank you. That paper was really good.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Really wish it would link back to the original comments so you could see them in context.

<comment><USER7> If you click on book details, it will list the comments that linked to them. It also exposes that the "top" books are really only 1-2 mentions.

Sadly it still doesn't link to the actual thread still.

Example: [http://toptalkedbooks.com/books/xsKNoA/Against-Empathy- The-C...](http://toptalkedbooks.com/books/xsKNoA/Against-Empathy-The-Case-for- Rational-Compassion)

<comment><USER8> Thank you for your suggestion, we have added a link to the original thread, please check it out: [http://toptalkedbooks.com/books/Ze2lQw/The-Managers- Path-A-G...](http://toptalkedbooks.com/books/Ze2lQw/The-Managers-Path-A-Guide- for-Tech-Leaders-Navigating-Growth-and-Change)

Regarding to the low mentions count issue, it is mainly because not many people in the community talked about the same books within a month, looking at the yearly view will get better result, [http://toptalkedbooks.com/hackernews/2017](http://toptalkedbooks.com/hackernews/2017)

Thanks

<comment><USER7> Awesome! Glad to see the change! I won't be a user but for those that do I am sure it is very helpful.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> We need to talk a lot more about fiction.

The Little Engine That Could and The Grapes of Wrath are good and all...

<comment><USER10> Ok. Go read Starfish by Peter Watts.

<comment><USER11> BlindSight by Peter Watts is a better beginning imho

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> You might consider doing this for research papers cited (although the titles might be harder to find if people don't use the exact title when they cite).

Which bring a question most people are probably interested in: What is the method this site works on?

<comment><USER13> It's probably harder to slap affiliate links on research papers.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Hey OP,

Great website! I read a book that was recommended on HN probably 6 or 7 years ago and I've spent the longest time trying to remember the name of it. My local library that I borrowed it from doesn't keep checkout history records so they couldn't look it up for me.

I looked at your website and sorted by all-time and found it: "Winning Through Intimidation" by Robert Ringer! I had even remembered the turtle on the cover but still couldnt't find it by Googling. Thanks for the site!

<comment><USER15> Wonder if I read that book off the same recommendation back then or if you read it off my recommendation? It's a great book!

You Can Negotiate Anything by Herb Cohen is another good one from that time period. (See my profile)

<comment><USER14> No idea, but either way, I agree that it's a great book! I'll be sure to check out that other one, thanks for the rec!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Is the font rendering difficult to read for anyone else? Chrome/Windows 10.

</comment><comment><USER17> Most seem to fit the pattern of "One thing: And another thing"

<comment><USER18> blame publishers (and by extension the bookbuying public) for that, not authors

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> 1929: the great crash by Galbraith for anybody looking for a crash course on economics in a practical context.

</comment><comment><USER12> EDIT: Nevermind. You already did this.

>>Could you average out titles for the whole year? and for all records?

</comment><comment><USER20> Why not link to first page?

<comment><USER21> We've updated the link from the second page to the first.</comment></comment>


CloudFlare and SHA-1 Certificates - <AUTHOR> http://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-and-sha-1-certificates/

<comment><USER2> In this case, I think it's wise to sacrifice compatibility with a 13-year-old operating system in order to improve transport security. Still, it would be nice to have some kind of a negotiated fallback option where a site can offer an older SHA-1 certificate to a client that requests one.</comment>


Show HN: I love counting cards so I made an app to train with - <AUTHOR> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/red-ace-blackjack-card-counting/id922233123?mt=8

<comment><AUTHOR> I couldn't find any other apps that were purely focused on counting cards and simulating a real game so I created this. Feature set is pretty limited, but I found it's a great way to practice. If nothing else, I hope it teaches you to play better Blackjack, even if you don't learn to count cards. I included a few free tokens andI would love to hear any feedback.

[http://tokn.co/gqabb6sp](http://tokn.co/gqabb6sp) [http://tokn.co/5nhzxkck](http://tokn.co/5nhzxkck) [http://tokn.co/uj6gnxyj](http://tokn.co/uj6gnxyj)

</comment><comment><USER2> Seems interesting but it's 5 up from then also has in app purchases?</comment>


Why does the Librem 5 phone cost that much? - <AUTHOR> https://puri.sm/posts/breaking-ground/ <comment><USER2> Sidenote: I got my Librem 5 in the mail yesterday! Below is a video of unboxing.

[https://peertube.co.uk/videos/watch/55eece8c-2d6c-4da3-8c8c-...](https://peertube.co.uk/videos/watch/55eece8c-2d6c-4da3-8c8c-895217d66e2a)

This prototype version is definitely not ready for mass market due to (1) known overheating issue (so far I've observed it get quite warm sometimes, but not uncomfortably hot), (2) a bunch little software things to work on. But it's really exciting to be able to `ls` and `cd` and `ssh` on a phone, and know that the software updates are coming.

Purism's accomplishment already is pretty incredible on both a hardware and software level. For me, well worth the price. Congrats to them even if there is a ways to go yet.

<comment><USER3> > But it's really exciting to be able to `ls` and `cd` and `ssh` on a phone, > and know that the software updates are coming.

It's strange that SailfishOS has not caught more marketshare on the hacker/tech enthusiast community, because it's (almost) everything people wants about Purism : you lose a bit in the free software and open hardware side, but you win in terms of price (used phone + 50$ license), availability and usability (Right now, it's the only alternative to Android and iOS I can safely recommend).

If only Jolla devs had kept their promises of open-sourcing more of their code.

<comment><USER4> > If only Jolla devs had kept their promises of open-sourcing more of their > code.

I think that's a big part of the answer to why it hasn't caught among techies. When I tried using it (shortly after release), there were numerous issues in their default apps that nobody could fix because they are proprietary and Jolla didn't seem to have the resources to handle all the bugs.

I'd wager that if it had been open source, the early adopters would have put some time in to fix a lot of the bugs.

In retrospect I'm pretty pissed at them for not being honest and upholding their promises. In my book they're basically con artists that just tried to get the Linux community's money by saying "open source" without actually meaning it.

<comment><USER5> This, along with Jolla's bankruptcy, is why I stopped using Sailfish as a former user. I didn't feel that I could depend on the platform sticking around.

I later switched to Ubuntu Touch because, despite Canonical picking up the project, the community had continued maintaining it. They could do that because it was freely licensed; nobody could do that for Sailfish.

<comment><USER6> What hardware are you running it on?

<comment><USER5> A OnePlus One, though I have both a PinePhone and Librem 5 preordered, and I'm looking forward to giving both of those a try. The OPO is nice, though I've had issues with the battery life.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> "We had to design the hardware from scratch"

Er, no. You bought a bunch of silicon off the shelf, and you had to _integrate_ it. Several orders of magnitude less work.

Fifteen developers, and two years? Not mentioned, but this means you didn't write the telephony stack either.

iMX8M bringup, driver development, software integration. This is real work, but it's a _tiny_ fraction of what goes into making your own phone.

Hoping you sell enough of these that you manage to attract adversarial attention. Because how you deal with _that_ will be the true test of your commitment...

<comment><USER8> From what I heard it was far more complex than just picking some parts from a catalogue. They had to find parts that could all run on open source drivers and I think they even had to convince some vendors to open source the drivers first. It also depends on what level you call from scratch. No one designs anything from scratch with your definition. All phones use 3rd party parts.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> They are an SPC not aln LLC. Does anyone know what is the difference between a Washington SPCs and LLCs? Is it true that as mentioned here[0] that:

 _> I think the story is that Washington SPCs are LLCs in pretty much every aspect besides shareholder-board disputes. _

and, why

 _> have they never made a Social Purpose Report available despite the fact that they've been an SPC for two and a half years?_

from the bottom of the article[1]:

 _> It is also worth keeping in mind that Purism isn't actually incorporated as a typical LLC (Limited Liability Company). They are actually incorporated as a SPC (Social Purpose Corporation) in the state of Washington. The primary difference between an LLC and an SPC in Washington is that SPCs can do things that are in the best interests of their customers rather than always doing things that are in the best interests of their shareholders. It is also important to know that in Washington this status comes with some extra regulatory requirements ..._

\----

if formed as an SPC, shouldn't they be transparent in how they allocate budgets to internal projects (as proof that they do what is outlined in the Social Purpose Report (SPR))? It's a shame they don't produce a SPR which could be used to verify the claims about price in this post.

[0] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21371573](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21371573)

[1] [https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of- puri...](https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-purism-and- the-librem-5-part-1)

<comment><USER9> the failure to publish an SPR could result in law suits against purism. Fixing this wouldn't cost much and only be a net positive (for new financial backers). Failing to publish a report was probably not malicious (just laziness). Still it's negligent (IMHO). And if the rumor is true that they are having liquidity problems (as conjectured by the author of the blog post), then they do not deserve the trust given to them by their current financial backers on kickstarter or the tech community who evangelize them.

We urgently need alternatives and I do want Purism to succeed.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> What their former CTO had to say: [https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Zlatan-T...](https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Zlatan- Todoric-Interview)

<comment><USER11> Great link.

"Quantities matter [in China] and getting only dozen or couple of hundred orders per month doesn't really help. That said, the Librems are heavily overpriced but that is because Purism seemingly never tried to get better deal and the South San Francisco partner abused this so that is why Purism Librems are double the price they should be. I believe that if we had more realistic prices, it would be much better for Purism not only financially but also more talking about it, more of it in wild which in turn means much more orders, more happy customers etc. The innovation is not really that hard in this space because big players don't try to really innovate as they have strong positions, so it wouldn't be that hard to be good or better then most of big players even, but quantity leverage is hard to pass by."

<comment><USER12> If the price were 20% less it would demand some more eyeballs.

When I saw the price I assumed they were trying to position a premium product. I think this is a little bit of a mistake given that in the market of handsets, Apple owns the "premium" devices, and maybe samsung counts as #2? Nobody is crossing that Rubicon.

$700 isn't really bad but I don't like the look of it. Maybe if they can make this thing for 6 or 7 years. People who are worried about this have been aware of Essential phones which aren't the same, but end users aren't shopping these Freedom characteristics.

I predict another few years of nobody batting an eye to these devices. Great shame.

<comment><USER13> >When I saw the price I assumed they were trying to position a premium product.

They are. They are building a product that let's you do anything you want on the device.

Honestly, the phone should be priced at a premium level because it will appeal to a demographic that will pay more for a phone that lets them break free from the closed ecosystems of Android/Apple. It also gives them extra cash to re- invest in the company and doesn't require them scaling their manufacturing just yet.

<comment><USER14> What can you do with the Librem that you can't with a Moto G?

<comment><USER15> Run a modern mainline kernel (and future mainline kernels) without losing compatibility with the drivers for most of the hardware.

<comment><USER16> Ok, but what does that let you do that you couldn't otherwise? Nobody buys a phone for the operating system, it's for the hardware and the software that runs on top of the OS.

<comment><USER17> Hi, I'm nobody.

I have no interest in Android or iOS. I have no interest in phones that make it difficult to run non-android systems on them. I have no interest in devices I have to break into in order to make them do what I want them to do.

Phones that I've been using for more than 10 years now make it easy to run Debian GNU/Linux on them, baremetal, straight out of Debian repositories. Those devices don't require me to run any proprietary binary blob on my system. Those devices are supported by community years after their manufacturers abandoned them, as mainlining makes that task actually manageable. That's the kind of phone I'm interested in and its OS plays a big part in it.

<comment><USER16> > I have no interest in devices I have to break into in order to make them do > what I want them to do.

And that is?

<comment><USER18> Do you have time? The list is going to be really long.

Just two examples: removing Google apps from Android devices, installing non- store apps on iOS.

If you run a web search along the lines of "best apps for rooted Android" or "best apps for jailbroken iPhone" you will find many more examples of useful things that you can do with rooted/jailbroken devices.

<comment><USER16> But the Librem 5 isn't a rootable Android or iOS device, it's a Linux phone. What's an example of some killer Linux-only app that's needed on a phone?

<comment><USER18> Bash, apt-get, chmod, vim, grep, cat, crontab, python3, pip3, httpd, sqlite3, ps, ls, top, df, lsblk, ifconfig, iptables, perl, apt-cache, chown, nano...

<comment><USER16> Sounds like you're more interested in GNU stuff than Linux stuff. Most of that _is_ available on Android probably because it's also running Linux.

<comment><USER17> Wayland/X11, PyGTK/PyQt, usbip, being able to compile apps without dealing with Android's awful NDK, telephony scripting, itch.io's butler, PulseAudio streaming... and those are just the first things that came into my mind.

I have a secondary Android device just out of necessity, I am a power user with enough past experience (I was active in Openmoko community, made Debian chroot for Kindle Paperwhite, am still using Nokia N900 etc.) and no - I have no actual interest in Android. Stop-gaps like Debian chroots or layers on top of libhybris won't replace the real baremetal, mainline thing.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> This great Dev Kit design is available for everybody: [https://kicad- pcb.org/made-with-kicad/librem_5_dev_kit/](https://kicad-pcb.org/made-with- kicad/librem_5_dev_kit/) Amazing piece of open source hardware. While I am not interested in cellphones, I might use for robotics project.

<comment><USER20> Here I must praise KiCad. It is one of the best pieces of FOSS software out there. It beats almost all other (commercial or non-commercial) software in PCB design, hands down.

<comment><USER21> > It beats almost all other (commercial or non-commercial) software in PCB > design, hands down.

You need to get out more often. Look, I am a KiCAD supporter, too. But KiCAD is repeating the mistakes of commercial ECAD systems of the 1980's. Am I glad it exists? Surely. But set your sights higher. KiCAD has much room for improvement.

<comment><USER22> Would you mind expanding on these mistakes?

<comment><USER23> This is entirely subjective, but I think the UI is needlessly unintuitive (but _okay_ compared to other EDA tools), and the parts management seems not well thought out IMO. A similar feeling that e.g. LTSpice gives me: you _can_ get into it, but parts feel arbitrary and other parts feel hacky, and ultimately you never really enjoy it.

My favourite open source EDA tool that IMO does it better is horizon EDA. [https://horizon-eda.readthedocs.io/en/latest/feature- overvie...](https://horizon-eda.readthedocs.io/en/latest/feature- overview.html)

I made quite a few working PCBs with that one already. Downsides are:

\- the library is not that big yet (but adding parts is really easy, you can even use inheritance etc)

\- won't run on any old machine because of the OpenGL-version

\- if you are not using windows you need to compile yourself

One of the things I really like besides the UI/UX (one button hotkeys!) is the library concept called "pool", where every part is made up of modular pieces, which makes things reusable and consistent. If you'd like to change the resistor symbol for all resistors you just have to edit in one place, if you feel like making a opamp with eight channels, just duplicate the quad one and add four more opamp units. Their concept takes a moment to sink in, but is incredible flexible and is one of these "why didn't we do it like that from the start"-ideas.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Thanks for explaining all the work your team is doing to create this innovative privacy phone, truly groundbreaking, I eagerly anticipate mine arriving in March. Meanwhile Hewlett Packard, with $5bn in net income and 50k employees, is advertising their latest innovation on my YouTube feed: a physical switch connected to the camera.

</comment><comment> awinter-py I love how their values-based pitch allows them to miss operational deadlines and still maintain their user appeal

When android devices have a major public video permission hole, everyone exhales and mentally checks out. When purism is late, it sucks but it's not the same

Pre-sale customers are along for the ride. If the lesson for other startups is 'if you're really innovating, your users will be there when you're ready', I think that's a really good outcome.

</comment><comment><USER25> "Trust in closed non-auditable complex computer systems is something everyone has learned the hard way we should not have. The news is full each day of zero day bugs and exploits throughout the stack–from applications to operating systems and even down to the very silicon the whole stuff runs on."

If only. I suspect that only tech enthusiasts are aware of these issues. In the meantime, non-technical people only give you weird disbelieving looks when you mention this to them, and then continue ignoring it.

<comment><USER26> > _In the meantime, non-technical people only give you weird disbelieving > looks when you mention this to them, and then continue ignoring it._

It's psychological. People _can't_ believe things which would make it too hard for them to stay the person they currently are. It's almost impossible for anyone to do anything but ignore and repress such information. If you ask them later about it, they probably would deny even hearing it or having the conversation, because _they wouldn't actually remember it_.

Ask anyone who tried to convince a sweeping societal change based on logical arguments. See what happened to Ignaz Semmelweis. You simply can't convince people of hard things with logic.

<comment><USER27> They just do the naive cost-benefit analysis: everyone uses it, successful people use these things, yet no bad things happen to them, why should I really care?

<comment><USER28> And that behavior is rational. If I have 1 in 1 million chance of dying from a loose brick in a building falling on my head, the rational thing is to completely disregard this risk and live my life as usual, especially if I live in a city.

<comment><USER29> Unless it's planes or terrorism. Why is that?

<comment><AUTHOR> TV propaganda?

<comment><USER26> What you constantly hear is what you will think about. As long as people watch TV constantly, TV will control people's minds.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Most of the things that they say have caused the high cost are sunk costs in design.

Given that the design is open, it should be possible for another company, who doesn't have these sunk costs, to deliver the same phone for less.

Does this mean that they have the price wrong? Can selling open designs ever recoup such design costs?

<comment><USER31> I don't think they've released their full hardware schematic, right? I imagine they're waiting until they at least hit full production, and perhaps get closer to the next rev.

That being said, Pine64 has been able to make a similar device for far less also using their own design, so I'm a little skeptical that hardware design was such a large part of the price. I'm guessing the bulk of it was getting the SoC up and going since Pine64 had similar products that likely make it simpler to design a phone SoC.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> It would all make sense to me, if they wouldn't charge $800 and $1000 for 24" and 30" monitors (with keyboard and mouse) respectively. Are they designing the monitors from ground up as well?

Business around privacy is a thing going on for at least a decade. However, we often forget that our data flow is controlled, monitored, and stored by those who we try to protect our data from.

<comment><USER2> Remember these were and are offered as part of a fundraising effort to be able to develop the phones. So I think those prices are targeted at people who want to make a serious donation to the cause as well as getting the hardware.

<comment><USER33> Indeed. After reading the blog entry, I feel like buying a Librem 5 even though I don't want a large phone (am on an old small dumb phone that lasts 3 weeks on a charge).

We've seen so many NIH (on the software side) phones over the years, and then finally this. It bodes well for the future.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> A bit OT, but I didn't know Librem made laptops - does anyone here have any experience with them, especially the 13" model?

<comment> mike-cardwell They're expensive for what they are, but I want one anyway. The only reason I haven't so far is because they only have US keyboards. If I'm going to spend that much on a laptop, I want my £ key!

<comment><USER8> Can't you just map that in software?

<comment> mike-cardwell I don't want to. I want a laptop with a physical £ key. Like my Macbook and my Thinkpads have.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> Well, they could say that it's expensive but at least you get to really own the phone, not the other way around. Technical wording works best with technical people.

</comment><comment><USER36> Has anybody received them? Last time I checked, deliveries were suspiciously late.

<comment><USER37> There is this guy on Reddit: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Purism/comments/e2mqgb/i_have_my_li...](https://www.reddit.com/r/Purism/comments/e2mqgb/i_have_my_librem_5_ama/)

<comment><USER38> Am I reading this correctly? This is a $700 phone that doesn't have a working camera and can't make phone calls?

<comment><AUTHOR> Not yet. In comparison with other phones, this one will be getting better with time, not worse.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> This blogpost propagates what I'd like to describe as an urban legend about baseband processors and main memory. The story originates from old times where even fancy phones allowed the baseband to write everywhere in main memory. The myth then becomes that you need the baseband physically separated from your main application processor.

But the world's moved on since those reports were made. It's FUD: [https://www.reddit.com/r/CopperheadOS/comments/6wtul0/on_sen...](https://www.reddit.com/r/CopperheadOS/comments/6wtul0/on_sensationalism_about_basebands_all_future/)

<comment><USER40> I know very little about the topic so bearing that in mind:

We're already in a world were we can't quite trust our CPUs, so why trusting baseband chips?

If it does make the design more complicated, it may also reduce the potential attack surface.

<comment><USER39> We can't fully trust the correctness of modern complicated CPU designs, leading to problems like <insert all speculative bypasses that have affected Intel CPUs the past 2 years>. But despite their complexity, CPUs and the CPU part of a smartphone SoC are usually extremely well understood (relatively speaking). The reason is that you _actually need to run your software_ on these CPUs, so they need to be understood rather well. With better understanding comes better trust.

On the other hand, the baseband processor is mostly unknown, black box hardware, running unknown black box software, that completely controls the transmission of cellular data. Of course it would be horrible if there was no separation between the CPU and baseband. You shouldn't trust that setup. But as it turns out, separation does exist!

<comment><USER15> > But as it turns out, separation does exist!

The article you linked to says: "There can be an IOMMU with very tight restrictions providing proper isolation or a setup where the IOMMU is effectively not doing anything and permits access to all of the memory. Determining that requires real research."

So it sounds more like separation might or might not exist and you're not likely to find out if it does on your particular device.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> I'm glad they put out this article - I've been thinking about picking one of these up, but the price surprised me. I wonder if the same reasoning holds true for their laptops? They're really nice, but the $1400 starting price is pretty steep considering the specs.

Side note: this is the strangest font I've seen in a long time. Why is the lower-case "t" smaller than every other letter? It almost looks like one of those fonts designed for dyslexic readers, but with no variations in the width of the letter strokes, I don't think that's the case. Anyone know if it was just a really strange choice, or if it serves some greater purpose?

</comment><comment><USER42> I don't think a $700 phone is terribly expensive. I mean, yes, it is, but as long as they stay below iPhone pricing I don't see how anyone can complain.

<comment><USER43> The Librem is $700 and, at launch, doesn't include basic functionality like calendars, calculators and notes.

Sure I'm comparing apples to lemons here, but the first iPhone was $500, twelve years ago, and much more functional.

<comment><USER44> Yes, the first iPhone was $500 12 years ago. And today, through the miracle of the free market an iPhone will only cost you... $599 with trade in.

 _adjusts glasses, shuffles papers_

Gotta be missing some pages here...

<comment><USER43> To be fair, the iPhone 11 is well over two orders of magnitude more powerful than the iPhone 1.

Not bad for another $99.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> Naive question, but with a commercial product like the i.MX8M from NXP Semiconductors, is there really not enough in it for them to develop Linux support for their product, rather than leaving it to other parties? Presumably some OS supported things like the i.MX8M's accelerometer from the launch date, or are these chips shipped to OEMs on the basis that the low level functions work, but all OS support has to be created by someone else?

<comment><USER26> For some reason, every hardware company, without exception, it _terrible_ at software development. They just can't do it right. It's probably a cultural difference, somehow, with the developent style and/or NDA requirements possibly having their impact.

<comment><USER46> Apple too?

<comment><USER47> Lately, Apple does kinda suck at software development.

I spent days hunting down issues in the launch iOS 13 simulator that turned out not to happen on real hardware (and had never happened worth the iOS 13 launch).

Their UX is on a downward trend for several years now, IMO.

Historically I've heard Apple described as a software company that uses hardware to achieve competitive advantage.

Apple sucking is relative, obviously - their stuff is still better than most other products, but it's not add good as it used to be, IMO.

I wonder if the iPhone's success has transformed them into more of a hardware company?

<comment><USER48> Name a good piece of software of similar power

<comment><USER49> What software are you talking about? If it is the whole OS then it is a matter of user's preference and telling Mac user that PC is better and the other way around is the best way to heat air without any useful outcome.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> I love the software part in the article. Basic GTK apps just need a few changes and they start working seamless on both Desktop and smaller displays.

</comment><comment><USER51> You can definitely make a cookie cutter 65nm SoC under $1m.

SoC has a gigantic cost advantage over discrete parts, let alone PCIE cards.

The only showstopper is the 4G radio. _There are no IP vendors for it at all_ , and that is very much a result of things antitrust regulators should've been taking care of.

</comment><comment><USER52> _> and that we would never make it with GNOME. Well, here we are, we are shipping with GNOME / GTK+_

What's the reason not to use Plasma Mobile though? I'd prefer investment of effort into that.

<comment> amiga-workbench I cant speak for them, but Gnome is far ahead on UI polish and general tidiness. I keep checking in on Plasma Mobile every few months and how nobody has fixed the god awful interface proportions yet is beyond me.

I see the same problems on desktop Plasma, wildly inconsistent padding, UI elements not lining up and bits of the interface crushed and cramped, while 100px below you have gigantic elements.

If you're going to take a swing at doing a FOSS phone right, you really need to avoid the wonky programmer art or you are not going to convince the average user that its any better or more polished than previous failed attempts.

<comment><USER52> In desktop case, Plasma is ahead of Gnome in features and functionality. Not sure what you refer to in regards to padding, but Gnome has its own UI issues like lack of server side decorations for SDL windows and such, due to Mutter being very limited.

Can't say about Plasma Mobile though, but that's the point why investing effort into that would be useful. The base is more promising than Gnome one.

<comment><USER15> > Not sure what you refer to in regards to padding

I can't find a good introduction on the topic at the moment, so I'll just quote Microsoft's succinct answer: "Alignment makes your UI look neat, organized, and balanced and can also be used to establish visual hierarchy and relationships."

They also have a nice illustration: [https://docs.microsoft.com/en- us/windows/uwp/design/layout/a...](https://docs.microsoft.com/en- us/windows/uwp/design/layout/alignment-margin-padding#alignment)

This kind of thing matters for usability. KDE has always been ahead in technical features, but GNOME has for a long time been way ahead in paying attention to basic principles of visual design.

<comment><USER52> Look-n-feel issues sound very subjective to me. And I don't like common Gnome's attitude of _" We know better than you what's good for you, because that's what some new theory dictates, so we'll make it hard for you to do it differently"_. MS suffers from exactly the same mindset.

Personally, I never had problems with KDE design. If anything, I prefer it to Gnome's. Plus KDE is so customizable, that if you don't like something, you can find a way to change that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> Its only $699, why are they calling it expensive? I paid $1100 for unlocked iphone.

<comment><USER54> Because the specs are much lower. You can buy an Android phone with the same or better specs for $50.

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> I need bitcoin to purchase the phone

<comment><USER56> They take Monero, so you can try [https://LocalMonero.co](https://LocalMonero.co)

or if there isn't anyone you want to buy from, you can try LocalBitcoin and then convert.

</comment></comment><comment><USER53> Great idea but man what a missed missed opportunity on the naming? I do not want to but a phone called librem.

</comment><comment><USER57> How about you make a cheaper product without software bloat? I don't think a smartphone requires 3GB ram to work. Those smartphones are not high end, but they have incredible specs and yet I don't see any logic that justifies them.

There should be a market for electronics that goes against planned obsolescence. Build a device that runs a good enough OS, with low specs, that doesn't require fast hardware, make it sturdy and last at least 3 years, and I would buy it.

I refuse to spit more than $200 for any of those devices. People say "but I used it everyday, it is my main computer", well with all due respect you are addicted to your phone.

The smartphone industry is bizarre. Of course you can accuse Apple and google ecosystems, but still.

<comment><USER58> Excuse my comment if I'm incorrect, but did you read the article?

"How about you make a cheaper product without software bloat" To me this was very clearly answered with we broke new ground building the right system from the ground up and that was expensive.

And we used our existing OS as the base and we've achieved true mobile <> PC converance.

Give the article a full read and please consider editing this comment.

The reason for the cost was literally what was covered in the article.

<comment><USER57> I doesn't warrant 3GB of ram, sorry.

<comment><USER59> But RAM is dirt cheap, so why not?

<comment><USER57> 3GB ram will greatly increase the size of the SOC, and ram increase power usage

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER60> This is an amazing effort, but I think...

> Well, here we are, we are shipping with GNOME / GTK+

...this point is I think quite unfortunate. I tried to write a GTK+ program a few years ago and it was completely impossible. Using GNOME / GTK+ will surely limit its attractiveness of a development platform. It's too bad they couldn't have done something based on Qt instead.

EDIT: Rather than downvoting, why don't you post your contrary experience with GTK+?

<comment><USER61> I think you're being downvoted due to the broad, unsubstantiated, statement that it's impossible to write code with gtk. It's obvious that gtk is a very successful platform. If you want to make such an extraordinary claim, the burden of proof is on you. It requires more than "I tried to write an app a few years ago"

<comment><USER60> Thank you for the explanation. It's not so much that I don't understand why I'm being downvoted, or even complain about it per se; it's just that it's not terribly informative, either for me, or to anyone reading.

Strictly speaking, everything I wrote was about my own personal opinions and experience. I did try writing an app; I did find trying to figure out was was going on impossible (and switching to web development much more fruitful). So it's natural for me to think that lots of people will have similar experiences, and that if they do, it will limit the growth of the platform.

I knew that what I wrote might be controversial, and I'm willing to take my downvotes like a man. But I'd rather be shown other perspectives.</comment></comment></comment>


A buggy Chrome update stopped many Macs from booting - <AUTHOR> https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/09/no-it-wasnt-a-virus-it-was-chrome-that-stopped-macs-from-booting/ <comment><USER2> Previous discussion:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21064663](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21064663)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21073819](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21073819)</comment>


Canadian Startup Wavo.Me Wants to Become the Social Network for Music - <AUTHOR> http://www.techvibes.com/blog/canadian-startup-wavome-wants-to-become-the-social-network-for-music-2012-10-03

<comment><USER2> As someone who until very recently worked for a ex-Canadian (moved here to Louisville) social music-related startup, I wish them the best of luck.

EDIT: on first glance; pretty nice work. Looks much cleaner and user-friendly than our own attempt at this sort of site. Slows Chrome down to a crawl, though.

</comment><comment><USER3> Looks cool, but the site was a bit abrupt, it looked like i landed on someone musician's myspace page. I think it could use a bit more clean/minimalism.

<comment><USER4> Coming in through the frontpage is rough as most of our referral traffic comes through Facebook viral loops so we've allotted our waking hours to optimize for that funnel. But you're right and we're going to be overhauling the whole design soon to get it cleaner and more minimal once we finish building out the BETA features! (Conor CEO wavo)

<comment><USER5> Your Airbrake API key is exposed on the client side. I would fix that up as soon as possible.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey there, (wavo CTO here)

It is my understanding that running airbrake in the browser does need you to somehow provide the API key to the client[1].

Could you explain a bit more in detail what makes you worry about having the API key on the client?

[1][http://help.airbrake.io/kb/troubleshooting-2/javascript- noti...](http://help.airbrake.io/kb/troubleshooting-2/javascript-notifier)

<comment><USER5> My bad. False alarm.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I'd avoid this industry like a plague.

<comment><USER2> Hollywood isn't going to fix itself. I still think anyone attempting to deal with them is crazy (speaking from experience), but leaving them alone just lets Hollywood get even more insulated from reality.

<comment><USER6> Ya, also from experience :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> wow it reminds me a lot of a music site I had a hand in, <http://songspin.fm> \- it has a bit of traction, but this area is definitely a tough nut to crack

</comment><comment><USER8> What, like Myspace?

</comment><comment><USER9> Nice work wavo crew!</comment>


DOT says drivers don't have to be human - <AUTHOR> https://www.wired.com/story/dot-says-drivers-dont-have-to-be-human/ <comment><USER2> Wonder how tickets work with an autonomous system? Does each system get it's license suspended if it gets to many points? every version get a fresh start?

In the beginning sure it will "follow" all the rules etc. But once real money and competition get involved there's no reason people wouldn't run the system to the "legal limit" (aka over) and try it hide. VW emissions for example.</comment>


Ecology and Economics for Pandemic Prevention - <AUTHOR> https://www.ecohealthalliance.org/2020/07/to-prevent-pandemics-invest-in-conservation <comment><AUTHOR> Paper by Peter Daszak et al:

[https://science.sciencemag.org/content/369/6502/379](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/369/6502/379)</comment>


Google hiked wages to combat Fb after fb refused to join hiring cartel  - <AUTHOR> http://pando.com/2014/03/30/court-docs-google-hiked-wages-to-combat-hot-young-facebook-after-sheryl-sandberg-refused-to-join-hiring-cartel/ <comment><USER2> I was surprised to see that their decision was further influenced by talent being attracted to startups. Not sure that a 10% raise will do enough to prevent people leaving Google with the intent of joining a startup, wouldn't change things for me at least. You could even argue that increased financial independence from raised wages could lower the psychological barrier to joining a relatively low-pay high-risk company such as a startup.

<comment><USER3> That depends on whether the additional salary was being saved or spent.

So I wonder if, absent the 'Techtopus', housing prices in the Bay Area would be even higher than they are today...</comment></comment>


Digital ocean not safe harbor? - <AUTHOR>

I have used DO for a few years running my business in Spain, seems they are no longer certified. Must I be switching providers?<p>https://safeharbor.export.gov/companyinfo.aspx?id=18129 <comment><USER2> [https://www.digitalocean.com/community/questions/how- about-u...](https://www.digitalocean.com/community/questions/how-about-usa-eu- safe-harbor-policy)

Seems like they are aware of it, but don't really care that much. Reason enough to move away from them, even if they regain certification.

</comment><comment><USER3> Hey! Just wanted to give you a quick update on this. We had been in the process of completing a full third-party audit to ensure Safe Harbor compliance. This has been completed, and our status has been update on export.gov:

[https://safeharbor.export.gov/companyinfo.aspx?id=27566](https://safeharbor.export.gov/companyinfo.aspx?id=27566)

</comment><comment><USER4> Here's a Wikipedia article explaining: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Safe_Harbor_Priv...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Safe_Harbor_Privacy_Principles)</comment>


Ask HN: anybody looking for a technical intern? - <AUTHOR>

So, I'm planning on doing my own startup after I graduate, but until then, I want to work during the summer.
Last summer, I worked on REST APIs for the NYT, but this summer it would be nice to work for a smaller company.
Is anybody doing cool work with Ruby (not Rails, although I'm open to it), bleeding-edge web-tech, HPC/Clustering, or something else cool?
My resume is online at http://ben.kudria.net/resume .  My email is ben at-sign kudria point net
(Helpful job search tips, or pointers to cool companies also appreciated!) <comment><USER2> <http://www.justin.tv/p/jobs#se_intern>

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm working on one of their programming puzzles, so I'll definitely be sending them something. Thanks!

</comment></comment><comment> Logic-Shop Not sure if it's what you're looking for, but take a look:

<http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/vol/1053791733.html>

It's unpaid, but also totally remote work so no relocating. It's a start-up company, but they've been around for three years so it's also an established team. If you're wanting to learn a lot about start up companies, it could be a great opportunity.

</comment><comment><USER3> <http://www.thinkcomputer.com/corporate/jobs.html></comment>


Nintendo of America Hires Bowser as New VP of Sales - <AUTHOR> http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20150520005475/en/Nintendo-America-Hires-Bowser-VP-Sales

<comment><USER2> I had to click on this to see if this was a game character or a person.

<comment><USER3> Haha, same here - although i already suspected that he'd be a real person.

 _Effective today, Doug Bowser (no relation to the King Koopa and Mario's longtime nemesis) will oversee a variety of sales-related functions, including Sales, In-store Merchandising, Retail Strategy and Retail Marketing_</comment></comment>


Albert Einstein's Sci-Fi Stories (2015) - <AUTHOR> https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/albert-einsteins-sci-fi-stories <comment><USER2> "New Theory of the Universe," a headline in the London Times crowed. "Newtonian Ideas Overthrown." For a introductory but fascinating treatment of why this is wrong you should read Asimov's _The Relativity of Wrong_ ([https://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.ht...](https://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm)) In fact, this should be required reading for science journalists, which, by the looks of the current writing, is not the case.

Sad to read that the Nobel committee was so influenced by Henri Bergson's baseless objections. As a layman in both physics and philosophy here's my take: Philosophers play a crucial function in all science but especially in physics, which purpots to explain reality in bizarre terms. It's when they go beyond interpreting and assisting to _actually predicting_ is when things go wrong.

For a well-known example of this consider Hegel's "proof" in his dissertation that there cannot be more than seven planets, based on idealistic analysis of gaps between planets (to be fair, in his later work he has said he no longer holds many views expressed in the dissertation).

For a discussion on why Hegel thought so see: [http://hegel.net/werkstatt/english/hegel_and_the_planets.htm](http://hegel.net/werkstatt/english/hegel_and_the_planets.htm). For a more in-depth discussion see this article: [https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/2251262.pdf?seq=1#page_scan...](https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/2251262.pdf?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents)

Note that the article fails to mention that rising antisemitism in continental Europe just when evidence for relativity started to come in also played an important role ([https://hsm.stackexchange.com/questions/6106/why-didnt- einst...](https://hsm.stackexchange.com/questions/6106/why-didnt-einstein-win- a-second-nobel-prize-for-relativity)), this would have been an interesting point, given the discussions being held in the US today.

<comment><USER3> > It's when they go beyond interpreting and assisting to actually predicting > is when things go wrong.

It seems like another way of stating that is that philosophy is useful up until it gets into the realm of falsifiable and then is falsified.

It makes me question, then, a lot of the usefulness of modern philosophy.

I'd say philosophy that is useful must show some _provable_ improvement into a way of life - that could be a model that can make a person more happy/productive/whatever but the explanatory power of modern philosophy is bunk.

<comment><USER4> Physics takes what we know and extrapolates to what we don't. Logical conclusions based upon what we know, and what we assume must be the case.

The best philosophy seeks to do the same thing, and present logical arguments proving or disproving something. Each argument is ideally falsifiable, and like physics, any unknown knowledge is recognized.

And much of physics which though must have been the case has been proved wrong too. I'm looking at you, "Luminiferous Ether".

Particularly fascinating to me was the arguments of AI, and whether consciousness can really be achieved by a computer. I would start with Searle's Chinese Room: [https://www.iep.utm.edu/chineser/](https://www.iep.utm.edu/chineser/)

<comment><USER5> Searle's Chinese Room is really bad to give as a starting point for someone, it's basically just a homunculus.

<comment><USER6> The idea would be to grapple with the question, not just accept someone's answer, even if you agree with it in the end.

Scott Aaronson has what is in my opinion so far the definitive take on the subject in [https://www.scottaaronson.com/papers/philos.pdf](https://www.scottaaronson.com/papers/philos.pdf) , section 4. It's not just a homunculus, it's an exponentially large one that can't fit into the universe as we know it. While that doesn't necessarily completely destroy the thought experiment, it does, I think, rather color the discussion, vs. the mental image of some small space we'd normally call a "room".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Bergson is pure woo: Nothing but completely subjective, baseless, pseudoscientific nonsense. Here is a sample of how he wrote:

"The intellect always behaves as if it were fascinated by the contemplation of inert matter. It is life looking outward, putting itself outside itself, adopting the ways of unorganized nature in principle, in order to direct them in fact." \- Henri Bergson

"The pure present is an ungraspable advance of the past devouring the future. In truth, all sensation is already memory." \- Henri Bergson

"Fortunately, some are born with spiritual immune systems that sooner or later give rejection to the illusory worldview grafted upon them from birth through social conditioning. They begin sensing that something is amiss, and start looking for answers. Inner knowledge and anomalous outer experiences show them a side of reality others are oblivious to, and so begins their journey of awakening. Each step of the journey is made by following the heart instead of following the crowd and by choosing knowledge over the veils of ignorance." \- Henri Bergson

And here are a few of the more pointed things Bertrand Russell had to say about him (from History of Western Philosophy[1], page 791):

"One of the bad effects of an anti-intellectual philosophy, such as that of Bergson, is that it thrives upon the errors and confusions of the intellect. Hence it is led to prefer bad thinking to good, to declare every momentary difficulty insoluble, and to regard every foolish mistake as revealing the bankruptcy of intellect and the triumph of intuition. There are in Bergson's works many allusions to mathematics and science, and to a careless reader these allusions may seem to strengthen his philosophy greatly. As regards science, especially biology and physiology, I am not competent to criticize his interpretations. But as regards mathematics, he has deliberately preferred traditional errors in interpretation to the more modern views which have prevailed among mathematicians for the last eighty years." -Bertrand Russell

"In that case, he may be tempted to ask whether there are any reasons for accepting such a restless view of the world. And if he asks this question, he will find, if I am not mistaken, that there is no reason whatever for accepting this view, either in the universe or in the writings of M. Bergson. " -Bertrand Russell

Why would anyone think he was qualified to discuss physics? Bergson wrote a book called "Matter and Memory"[2] and his thesis, Time and Free Will[3], where he presented a highly subjective and basically meaningless account of "time." Like others have said, it's sad that his pseudo-intellectual rock throwing was taken seriously. Einstein himself credits Hume and Mach[4] with helping him get past the notion of absolute simultaneity.

[1]: [http://www.ntslibrary.com/PDF](http://www.ntslibrary.com/PDF) Books/History of Western Philosophy.pdf

[2]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter_and_Memory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter_and_Memory)

[3]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_and_Free_Will](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_and_Free_Will)

[4]: [https://www.pitt.edu/~jdnorton/papers/HumeMach.pdf](https://www.pitt.edu/~jdnorton/papers/HumeMach.pdf)

<comment><USER8> That was a strawman Peeping Tom Bertrand Russell constructed. Henri Bergson based a large portion of his work drawing the distinction between functioning on representation versus functioning on cognition.

representation = passive; science isn't assertive. Science is purely passive which is why scientists can never assert something is true but only that it hasn't been disproven. A scientist can say "this is what general relativity says, this is how general relativity maps onto the bending of light, apply it to your work or not. Take it or leave it."

scientism = passive-aggressive; it is assertive by asserting "no metaphysical woo" passively using representations provided by science. They're like the coworker who passively expresses how he feels about his boss by little gestures.

cognition (what Bergson called intuition) = assertive; it reaches knowledge of truth which is why it can definitely assert something is true. But it isn't forceful so it can't convince other people which is why it only reaches up to your being.

<comment><USER9> Anyone or anything _can_ definitely assert something is true. Here, I'll do it with a scientific proposition: "Humans definitely evolved from non-human apes."

One thing that distinguishes science from many other modes of thinking is that scientists have learned that things that seem definitely true sometimes turn out not to be, which is why carefully expressed scientific judgements don't go quite so far as I just did. "Our current best explanations for the way the world is have humans evolving from non-human apes, and it currently seems incredibly unlikely that any theory that doesn't have that feature will work out better than those do."

If you come to some intuitive judgement, you may "definitely assert" that it's true. If so, that isn't because intuition has some power to "reach knowledge of truth" that's denied to science. It's because, in the grip of that intuitive conviction, you aren't thinking as careful as scientists-at-their- most-careful do.

<comment><USER8> > Anyone or anything can definitely assert something is true.

No they can't because sophonts aren't voluntarists. Sophonts are intellectualists. Although judging by your advocacy of the otaku theory of biology you probably have a voluntarist personality.

By the good regulator theorem, human cognition (intuition is bergson's word not mine) must be just as good as scientists-at-their-most-careful or I and you would be dead.

<comment><USER9> I'm sorry, but this is nonsense.

1\. It doesn't matter whether "sophonts" (whatever exactly you mean by that) are voluntarists. It might matter whether voluntarism is _right_ , which is an entirely different question, but I don't think it's credible that even _that_ is relevant here. Why should anything so broad as voluntarism be necessary for anyone to be able to "definitely assert" that something is true? (Note that I didn't claim, e.g., that anyone at all can sincerely assert that anything at all is true.)

2\. "The otaku theory of biology"? Are you just trolling?

3\. "Voluntarist personality" doesn't make any sense. Voluntarism is a philosophical position, not a personality trait. If you mean that I'm the kind of person who believes whatever they feel like, well, please go ahead and believe that if you feel like doing so.

4\. There is no theorem that would make us dead if human cognition weren't as good as scientists-at-their-most-careful, and if you think Conant and Ashby proved anything of the sort then I think you are badly deluded. What might be true (though actually I don't believe any theorem comes close to proving this either) is that if human cognition weren't _perfect_ then we would be _mortal_. Guess what? It isn't, and we are.

<comment><USER8> Look,

Reflect on this: there are at least 200 factual errors on the front page comment sections of Hacker News. Do you nod along while you read it being entertained, or do you pinpoint the errors?

I'm not even talking about nigling details. I saw one comment about relativity with a huge scientific howler right in the middle of it. And people upvoted it sky high.

The people who upvoted it were being passive. The users of this site receive a passive experience and generally speaking are too childish to handle asserting their own mind. Even comments are largely passive. People don't even reflect on the subject-verb agreement of the sentences that they write. They are so childish that asserting themselves by the tiniest amount on their writing is not trivial nor has it reached the point of automaticity.

How does science work? It's largely like reading Hacker News. Scientists download research papers, understand them, and test them... and occasionally come up with new directions and ways (equiv 2 commenting on the newslink).

None of that are assertive. When an assertive person presents himself on a subject, he causes a PARADIGM SHIFT. He doesn't go along with the presuppositions: he creates his own presuppositions. This is Thomas Kuhn's "groundbreaking" thesis on scientific progress: some people internalize other people's presuppositions until they are fossilized in their brains resulting in them kicking and screaming on their death bed when it's time to admit it was a bad idea... or some people are like creative genius Thomas Hobbes who said he didn't bother reading all the failures before him because he was too busy thinking his own presuppositions.

<comment><USER9> You seem to be arguing different things in every comment.

As I understand it, your thesis now is that most scientists most of the time accept things they hear from other scientists. That's probably true. And it's part of how science works -- which it does, rather impressively on the whole. But the paradigm-shifting stuff is _also part of science_ , and a vital part at that, so if this is meant to connect somehow to your earlier remarks about science being passive, "scientism" being passive-aggressive, and "intuition" being assertive, you have more work to do to justify that connection.

(And, once again, if you want to claim some sort of superiority for "intuition", you need to show not only that intuition _purports_ to assert things more definitely than science does, but also that it does so _correctly_. Mere overconfidence is not an intellectual virtue.)

Thomas Hobbes was a smart guy. But when he tried to do science and mathematics, the results were _not good_. The most infamous example: He thought he'd accomplished the so-called squaring of the circle and duplication of the cube. He hadn't. (They are impossible.) So far as I can tell, none of Hobbes's scientific work turned out to have any lasting value.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Kazakhstan Attempts to MITM Its Citizens - <AUTHOR> https://www.f5.com/labs/articles/threat-intelligence/kazakhstan-attempts-to-mitm-itscitizens <comment> chupa-chups 17 days ago: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20472179](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20472179)

</comment><comment><USER2> > An increasing number of businesses are legitimately intercepting encrypted > traffic on their networks. It's pretty much a necessity today.

This is blatant FUD right in the intro, trying to push F5's known bad TLS MITM hardware: [https://timtaubert.de/blog/2016/09/tls-version- intolerance/](https://timtaubert.de/blog/2016/09/tls-version-intolerance/)

<comment><USER3> It's not black and white. I have a MITM proxy on my network that I use to remove ads, modify pages, and block sites, among other things.

In fact, I recommend anyone with "smart"/IoT things on their network to use one, and find out what they're saying... [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6759426](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6759426)

<comment><USER4> There are plenty of "smart" IoT devices that use client-side cert pinning as a defense mechanism against MITM attacks.

<comment><USER5> They wouldn't even need cert pinning would they? Just cert validation. Unless you have access to the device to install an alternate ca, then regular cert validation is going to fail when it reads your fake cert issued from a non- authoritative source.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Both Caddy[1] and Cloudflare[2] use a published technique to detect MITM, and (speaking as the author of Caddy), we want to make sure our systems can detect this travesty as well. If you are on an affected network and if it is safe to do so, would you please let us know if Caddy's MITM detector picks it up?

[1] [https://caddyserver.com/docs/mitm- detection](https://caddyserver.com/docs/mitm-detection)

[2] [https://malcolm.cloudflare.com](https://malcolm.cloudflare.com)

</comment><comment><USER7> Governments would never use this data for nefarious purposes like selling it to your competitors for money or killing religious minorities .

</comment><comment><USER8> Will Mozilla, Google, Microsoft or Apple blacklist the certificate?

</comment><comment><USER9> Silly joke: we call it "Kazakh in the middle"</comment>


A real-time story told through a messenger app - <AUTHOR> http://lastseenonline.com/ <comment><AUTHOR> We built this app, it tells a real-time story through a messenger. We've replicated a messenger-style experience to deliver a story centered around a girl who goes missing following a night out with friends.

The story is delivered in real-time through messages, voice notes and videos across the seven days.

We were inspired by the likes of making a murderer and serial podcast. Would love to get your thoughts on the concept and the app (if you choose to download it!).</comment>