How to avoid Amazon: guide to online shopping - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/apr/27/how-to-avoid-amazon-the-definitive-guide-to-online-shopping-without-the-retail-titan <comment> rv-de I haven't bought from Amazon in about three years. And I'm ordering online quite a lot. Only this month: a bike (boc24.de), bike equipment (nanobike.de), several books (booklooker.de, medimops.de, thalia.de, hugendubel.de), a Whisky (mcgin.de), a pizza stone (otto.de), USB microskope (digitalo.de) ...

No problem or hassle whatsoever. I just find a shop (usually idealo), then I order - done.

It's so simple, there's not much to write about - lest a guide.

> You can often cut out the middleman if you are buying electronics. For > computers, phones and TVs, Dell, Apple and Samsung are all offering free > delivery on their products

That's why the guide goes beyond its purported goal and tries to avoid other shops as well?

> Environmentally friendly cleaning products, pet food and baby gear are > available at Ethicalsupermarket.com. Standard delivery in the UK is free on > orders over £50, or £3.95 on smaller orders.

Then specific shops and information about shipping?

Whatever - useless text. Just order somewhere else. It's that easy. (at least in Germany) (yes, I hate Amazon - yes, I make a living with AWS)

\---

Special love goes to:

\- booklooker.de

\- medimops.de

\- notebookgalerie.de

\- thalia.de

\- mcgin.de

<comment><USER3> I do think you are missing out on how well Amazon has handled the online purchasing. Not discussing their ethics, just the service of interacting with them.

I make a purchase and it normally shows up the next day. That's unreal (I'm near a distribution center, so that's not the normal 2 days stateside).

I need to make a return, I just click a button and bring the open box and item to any UPS store (there are 3 within 3 miles). They will package it for me and ship it. I just show them the UPC code on my phone with a ripped open box and an item.

They have a good system. This may be US only, but it's easy to understand why they are so popular.

I have separated myself from Google for privacy reasons (except a few things...) and try to avoid Amazon where I can and support local shops. So this isn't advocating Amazon, just pointing out that their competitors usually can't compete on returns and shipping time.

<comment><USER4> In Germany Amazon usually delivers next day. So does just about everyone else, since all it takes is packaging and getting the order to any postal carrier on the same day.

Returns are unproblematic almost everywhere since a 14 day on-questions-asked return policy for online purchases is EU law (and most online shops voluntarily extend it to 30 days). Sure, I have to package it myself, but that's no different than German Amazon.

Sure, Amazon is great, but so is almost everyone else (at least in Germany). Amazon's main advantage is only learning one interface and one set of processes for everything.

<comment><USER5> Absolutely not. Amazon is the only company that reliably shows when they'll deliver, even before you order. Other companies tend to indicate deliveries within 1-2 days or 2-3 days if items are in stock. You never know when the cut off time is and if they ship out on Saturdays. I know that's a very hard problem to solve logistically but as a customer I don't care.

I just ordered electronics online in Germany, not via Amazon. It was in stock with a reputable stores. Still, my order from 9am got shipped two days later. Maybe Covid related but Amazon would've shown me that before I placed the order. Returns are fully automated with Amazon, very few other online retailers in Germany have that.

Also the no questions asked return policy is pretty unique. If I get a defective item I don't want to argue with the seller why it doesn't work, I just want to have a working replacement tomorrow. Amazon always delivers on that, others very rarely do.

I'd love to get away from Amazon and I'm not even that price sensitive. But until a shop matches their customer service, I'll stay with Amazon for 99% of my orders.

<comment><USER6> > Absolutely not. Amazon is the only company that reliably shows when they'll > deliver, even before you order. Other companies tend to indicate deliveries > within 1-2 days or 2-3 days if items are in stock. You never know when the > cut off time is and if they ship out on Saturdays. I know that's a very hard > problem to solve logistically but as a customer I don't care.

Except in NL ... that's exactly what the other stores do when they say "order before 22:00 and have it delivered the next day!", almost entirely without doing the things that make people dislike Amazon.

> Also the no questions asked return policy is pretty unique. If I get a > defective item I don't want to argue with the seller why it doesn't work, I > just want to have a working replacement tomorrow. Amazon always delivers on > that, others very rarely do.

We have a 30-day "change your mind" policy required by law, I thought that was a EU policy, but I guess it's Dutch ..

<comment><USER7> 14 days is required by the EU rule (Distance Selling regulation), the Dutch can extend that in their own law.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I tried shopping Newegg recently (BC). Newegg's online customer service made Amazon's look positively erudite, and in addition Newegg's return policy is terrible by comparison. I still haven't received an item that I ordered 7 weeks ago (shipping was not advertised as being particularly slow), and I still haven't been refunded for another item that I returned 2 weeks ago. Amazon gets that if you can't touch the item in store, there should be a no- fault return policy (and yes, I know that returns are environmentally unfriendly, etc).

I tried to shop Jet (before they were acquired) and I found the search / shop experience had too much friction. Amazon's UI has plenty of annoyances, but they've made it _real_ easy to get something into your cart and check out.

On the other hand, all of my music studio purchases I make at Sweetwater. Great customer service, free shipping, will price match if you ask, and frictionless returns.

IMO Amazon is vulnerable to good competitors, but the emphasis is on good. I can tolerate a small shipping fee, and I don't need next day or two day shipping (although it's nice). On the other hand if you make it hard for me to shop, customer service sucks, or I have to jump through hoops to return something, I'll go back to Amazon.

<comment><USER9> Sweetwater has never let me down in 20 years. It's been quite sometime since I've used Crutchfield but I've always had a very high opinion of their customer service as well.

Had a very poor experience ordering from Ikea. Just some kitchen towels, nothing particularly interesting. Took six weeks to ship, zero updates on the site about order status, estimated delivery date came and went unceremoniously, wasn't able to contact anyone via phone. Finally got an email out of the blue that they shipped and arrived intact the next day. Pretty much a 'never again' experience.

Amazon's policies and employee treatment/relationships may need improvement or complete overhaul, but their execution at getting matter into your hands and dealing with issues is, in my experience, second to none.

<comment><USER10> The only times I can remember having real issues with buying from Amazon is when I failed to notice that I was buying from a third-party on their site, not actually from Amazon directly. And that said, the vast majority of my (intentional) third-party purchases on Amazon have been flawless.

But, if they happen to sell what I am shopping for... Sweetwater and B&H Photo are two stores from which I have had consistently great service. I've never been to Sweetwater in person, but the physical B&H store is also a cool experience.

<comment><USER11> Sweetwater is awesome in person. Super friendly staff and they have a free arcade for the community as well as a massive slide that my nephew loves to go down.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> If you want your mom n' pop shops to survive this thing consider them first. You'd be surprised how many are probably doing deliveries.

It's awfully low tech, but the local indie book shop here in Vancouver will order any book you ask for and deliver it throughout Metro Vancouver. All you need to do is call them and ask.

<comment><USER13> "Call them and ask"

We all know how frustrating and time-wasting it can be, when calling for professional service...

In the end, it's still a tech problem.

Amazon has the tech, and the customer base to form a virtuous cycle.

The smaller shop dont have that.

We need more Shopify like supplier, with varying degrees of sophistication and targeted customer groups.

<comment><USER14> I've found the opposite.

Calling is a waste of time when you're dialing a megacorp like your phone company or utilities provider, because they treat customer service as a cost center and do everything possible to prevent you from talking to a human who isn't reading off a script.

Smaller shops will usually have someone who just picks up the phone when you call.

<comment><USER15> The thing is, "call them and ask" can be a 10-minute chore if you're looking for some oddball item from a local supplier, or a 10-second search on Amazon.

<comment><USER16> My local bookstore has 'email them and ask', which is much lower friction.

<comment><USER17> lol

I expect the successful ones will have decent ecommerce platform within the new few years.

<comment><USER18> They already exist:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22773393](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22773393)

And Bookshop is just the newest one, as others like Alibris have been around for much longer.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> It's a nice touch by The Guardian to write this article but given how much Amazon has benefited from this epidemic, I do not think any kind of individual vigilantism will really work here. You're not even a drop in the bucket for them and most people do not care.

If anything, thanks to them being a go-to platform, they've single handedly allowed a lot of third party shops to sell their inventory, and have come out net positive as a result. I don't mean to sound as an apologist saying this - just stating the bloody obvious.

The "vote with your wallet" rhetoric doesn't work. It's half past feel good bullshit. If you want these companies to change it must be codified into the law and backed up by hard time.

But good luck with that, since China is a massive trade partner and every country is turning a blind eye to them imprisoning people in concentration camps and harvesting organs. It's unlikely The States are going to have a change of heart anytime soon.

<comment><USER20> I think it's feel good bullshit in part because the entire narrative is bullshit, driven by an anti-tech media stance that is not actually well represented in the real world.

Most people are happy with Amazon and like the service they provide - <USER2> kind of thing is a non-story.

I say this as someone who buys directly from suppliers like Dell or Logitech when I think there's a risk to getting repackaged or counterfeit items from Amazon, but the experience is often worse (Dell monitors took 5 weeks to arrive).

I think these articles are a symptom of something else, but I'm not quite sure what it is. It feels like a political or tribal position, anti-large company, or anti-success? - I'm not quite sure, but I think there's an underlying theme that drives these types of articles and it isn't what they're directly about. They're okay with a small under-dog company story, but if you become large and successful then you're automatically written about in the most uncharitable way possible.

<comment><USER21> Chiming in for an anecdote to say: I'm boycotting Amazon because I am pro- labor and Amazon treats their employees and contractors like almost-literal shit. Even back when I first entered the workforce all the people I knew who went to work for Amazon had absolutely hellish descriptions of their times there. Employees regularly sobbing at their desks from pressure, PIPs being weaponized to assuage paranoid delusions of mutiny from middle management, etc. It sounded like that description of an experiment with monkeys who beat each other for trying to get food. My housemate drives delivery for Amazon sometimes and his depiction of their health standards and SOP during this crisis are atrocious. If there would be a Geneva convention for employment, Amazon would be most of its raison d'etre.

<comment><USER22> Thats a very virtuous and noble stance. According to the BLS, among the top 10 most dangerous jobs in America (warehouse worker didn't make the list) are loggers, pilots, fishermen, farmers, construction workers, roofers, trash collector and extraction workers.

Can I assume that out of concern for these workers you also don't buy food, don't fly commercially, you dispose of your own refuse, never use anything made out of wood and never enter a man made structure?

<comment><USER21> You seem to have conflated "Amazon the corporation" with "Amazon's labor force". They are not the same, but it is intriguing that you would take this line of rhetoric.

I shop at the local food co-op, and I'm fine with the union leadership for flight attendants and my local waste removal folks. I can't be perfect -- no one can -- but this is a lot better than some others. Of course, this sort of individualistic atomization of "virtue" with almost zero systemic change to address the underlying concerns is ultimately kind of pointless, but I don't see a reason to _start_ encouraging the exploitation of fellow humans any more than I do now.

Your response makes me think you were triggered by my position. What stake do you hold with Amazon? Why are you coming to their defense?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> If you're in the Bay Area and need more computer things, give Central Computers a try. Their website is delightfully simple.

This article recommends hitting up major brands on their websites, which is ok for all of them except Dell. Dell's website is an absolute shitshow.

I've been using Google Express and liked it quite a bit.

<comment><USER24> yes to central computers, meh to dell, and heck no to google.

support independently-owned businesses not trying to corner the market on all your personal data.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Given how much Bezos has added to his personal net worth during the pandemic ($24B [1]), perhaps its time for governments to expect better treatment for Amazon employees... or else. Charges of pandemic profiteering could be convincingly brought to bear.

[1][https://fortune.com/2020/04/14/jeff-bezos-net- worth-2020-bil...](https://fortune.com/2020/04/14/jeff-bezos-net- worth-2020-billionaires-amzn-amazon-stock/)

<comment><USER26> I would expect HN of all places to know the difference between paper and liquid net worth.

People are stuck at home and as result are forced to shop online which results in increase revenue for the largest online commerce store.

<comment><USER27> And? With increased revenue Amazon can probably afford to pay their workers more.

<comment><USER28> Increased revenue comes with increased costs. They may actually be making less profit. We'll find out this week when the post their earnings.

<comment><USER29> Like economies of scale, but backwards? This makes no sense to me. Amazon was built to extract value from volume.

<comment><USER28> Slowly increased volume yes, a sudden burst of volume is a whole different story.

For example right now they are trying to hire 100,000 people to cover the increased demand. In the meantime, they are making their existing people do the work of those 100,000, or letting the work go undone. In both cases that's lost profits.

<comment><USER30> It's lost revenue not lost profits. Amazon can sort orders by profit and thus have profit increase as a larger percentage of work goes undone.

<comment><USER28> That's not how real life works though. There is lost profits in unfulfilled orders beyond just the original profit, in terms of customer service overhead and warehouse overhead.

Also, paying someone to work overtime to serve the same orders is most definitely lost profit, because it costs more to deliver the service.

Amazon's systems aren't designed for this type of sudden surge. They usually have to ramp up and prepare for it (like around Christmas).

<comment><USER30> This is hardly the first time their system has been overwhelmed, it's designed to be robust and maximize profit. Further, a simple ships in X weeks gives them plenty of time to ramp up staff.

It comes down to the software side of their business, and they have some great back end software.

<comment><USER28> It's clear that you don't understand Amazon's business nor do you appear to be willing to listen to reason.

> This is hardly the first time their system has been overwhelmed

They have specifically said, publicly, multiple times, that they've never seen an increase like this before in the history of their business.

> it's designed to be robust and maximize profit.

Within limits. It doesn't scale infinitely. There is a human aspect involved that doesn't scale instantly.

> Further, a simple ships in X weeks gives them plenty of time to ramp up > staff.

Except, again, you are not accounting for lost profits due to increased customer service requests, increased credits to Prime members for not meeting the Prime SLA, increased costs of the warehouses being full of products they can't move because they are constantly moving the new essential products that are coming in, and a whole bunch of other fixed costs that they have not related to their variable costs.

<comment><USER30> I have talked with warehouse employees, so I have a solid idea how it operates.

> They have specifically said, publicly, multiple times, that they've never > seen an increase like this before in the history of their business.

That's true, but not that relevant.

> Increased customer service requests

Customer support is a controllable expense. When customer support lines spike past a threshold they simply lack the people to take additional calls etc.

> Warehouses being full

Amazon has cut down on new items being added while still shipping some non essential items. What your suggesting is an extremely dumb move their not going to make.

> Prime SLA

What prime SLA?

 _From time to time, Amazon may choose in its sole discretion to add or remove Prime membership benefits._ [https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...](https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201910780)

<comment><USER28> > > They have specifically said, publicly, multiple times, that they've never > seen an increase like this before in the history of their business.

> That's true, but not that relevant.

It was in direct refutation of your claim that they have dealt with this type of load before. They haven't and they have said that they have never dealt with anything like this before. That's why it's relevant.

> Customer support is a controllable expense. When customer support lines > spike past a threshold they simply lack the people to take additional calls > etc.

You clearly don't understand Amazon if you think this is true. Customer service is their number two core competency after logistics. It is paramount to their success.

Besides, what do you think happens when they stop answering customer service calls? Do you think people just go away? Obviously customer service is important to their business or they wouldn't have it. They can't just drop calls. So no, it's not really controllable.

> What prime SLA?

They're still giving credits if you call in and complain that your item didn't arrive within two days. Even though it tells you before you order that it won't.

Because they care about customer service.

<comment><USER30> > It was in direct refutation of your claim that they have dealt with this > type of load before.

No, I said they have dealt with load past capacity before. Saying it's 1% or 200% over capacity does not change the fact they have procedures in place to deal with it.

> It is paramount to their success.

Yet, you have not said how it suddenly inherently spikes in cost after their capacity is reached.

> They're still giving credits if you call in and complain that your item > didn't arrive within two days.

That's not an SLA, they will do quite a bit if you call and complain _up to a point._ It's designed to maximize revenue not a contract obligation, many companies budget this under advertising costs for a reason.

Further, on the flip side they can reduce normal advertising spending which is more than enough to cover some nominal difference. But you don't need to take my word for it, their a public company and we can just wait and see what their profit is.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Been buying a lot of stuff on eBay. On the app, you can filter by Guaranteed Delivery 1 to 4 days. If it doesn't make it by the guaranteed date, you get a $5 credit to your eBay account. It's also frequently cheaper for new stuff. For example, water bottles and bluetooth adapters.

<comment><USER32> And if you really want to save money and have patience, just sort by Price + Shipping: Lowest First.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> Problem is that return policy for Amazon is excellent, but completely nonexistent or cumbersome with other suppliers. That in itself is pretty much a deal breaker for competitors.

<comment><USER34> Newegg and Monoprice have been pretty good for me.

<comment><USER35> Have you had good return experiences with NewEgg?

I recently ordered a $100 drawer shelf for a 12U rolling AV cart. The shelf was deeper than described so it jutted past the back of the rack. I sought a return. For which NewEgg charged $70 in return freight and a $15 restocking fee. Meaning I lost $85 and a few hours of time because NewEgg wouldn't stand by the specs on their site.

To add insult to injury, the first step of their return policy is a YouTube video. As if part returns are so complicated. Amazon blows. But not like this.

I'm just one data point. Maybe an exception. I will never do business with NE again (but I still love how they fight patent trolls)

<comment><USER34> It's been a while since I had to return something so thanks fort that info,

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> I feel like there's a lack of good price comparison websites in US and Canada. I'm used to e.g. PriceSpy which compares thousands of stores. Just as an example showing 42 different stores selling this particular SSD [https://pricespy.co.uk/computers-accessories/storage- media/h...](https://pricespy.co.uk/computers-accessories/storage-media/hard- drives/ssd-solid-state-drives/samsung-970-evo-plus-series-mz-v7s1t0bw-1tb-- p5035391)

Whenever I search for something like that for US/Canada I end up on a site that indexes Amazon/ebay with affiliate links.

<comment><USER37> I second this. PriceSpy is so incredibly useful. I've recently moved from New Zealand to Australia and PriceSpy doesn't offer their service here. It is now so much more difficult to figure out where to get the best price. I took it for granted and now have to make do with the mediocre [https://www.priceme.com.au/](https://www.priceme.com.au/).

<comment><USER38> Same story in the US. Back in the day there were multiple price engines that were super effective at finding the best price. I remember PriceGrabber and even Google Shopping being really useful.

I think the affiliate links destroyed them all, removing the incentive for them to offer the best price and instead only serve up the most profitable (to them) links.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> For me it's been:

\- NewEgg for electronics

\- Walmart/Target. You have to be careful with walmart as that they have an open market place

\- Aliexpress for assorted small things that I can wait on

\- Abebooks (although they're owned by amazon :( ) for used books

\- Vitacost (owned by koger) for supplements/vitimins etc

I've gone through 2018, 2019, and 2020 so far without placing a single Amazon order.

<comment><USER40> Walmart has an option to filter by retailer, so one can do a search, then filter by retailer "walmart.com," which avoids third party vendors.

It's a bit annoying to have to do this on every search, though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> Step 1: Live somewhere where online shopping other than with Amazon actually works.

(You can think what you want about Amazon, but it's a remarkably provincial piece.)

<comment><USER42> It's a piece in a UK newspaper: obviously they're going to focus on the situation for most of their readers and the options that somebody in the UK might have for online shopping. It's not trying to be a survey of the whole global online shopping market or a resource for people in Brazil or Turkey, and frankly it would be an entirely different and much less useful article if it attempted that.

<comment><USER43> > much less useful

depends on who you are. If you live in the UK, sure. If you live anywhere else, this article is not very useful.

<comment><USER42> I think an attempt at a world-spanning set of recommendations would have been spread so thinly as to be useless for everybody, even if in theory it covered their region. I think it's better to have an article that picks a country/region to focus on and does that in depth. Some other journalists/newspapers can handle doing similar articles for the US, Japan, Germany, etc, and as local journos they'll have more experience of what they're writing about and a wider array of contacts to get good suggestions from.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> In the book "The Everything Store," Jeff Bezos mentions that the public tends to hate companies as they get bigger and that managing the company's image is very important.

All politics aside, I find it very interesting that this seems to be a law that people just think companies are evil when they are big.

<comment><USER45> I think it makes sense. When you're small, you don't have a lot of power. If you create CodyStore tomorrow and do things I don't like, I'll just ignore you. When you become as large as Amazon, you start crowding out competition and so even if I don't like some of Amazon's actions, I have no choice - I end up doing business with them regardless of my personal feelings.

Plus, as you get bigger, you start looking at how you can marginally increase your growth. You go from "just make people happy" to "we could probably exclude a lot of low-margin items from Prime shipping and not see cancelations while improving our profits". You start trying to tie things together so that if people want one part of your experience, they need to accept other parts. You start trying to figure out how to optimize your labor cost, potentially in ways that aren't great for your workers. You start getting a lot of people that can improve the company in ways that aren't necessarily evil, but aren't exactly friendly. By this time, people don't really have an alternative.

I mean, a lot of people loved Walmart when it was new. It was this all-in-one store with great prices. Over time, competing businesses were crowded out of the market by Walmart and customers had less choice. It also meant that retail labor had less choice with Walmart becoming a greater percentage of the jobs. It also meant that businesses selling things like TVs had less choice and Walmart could pressure them.

I think power is ultimately pretty toxic. Amazon has succeeded in part because it's really good at what it does. However, another part of its success is the power it exerts on competitors, over labor, over suppliers, and over customers. Small companies just never have power to exert so they can never seem that unfriendly. Unfriendly small companies just cease to exist or at least can be ignored. Unfriendly large companies can use their power to force a lot of things to try and keep their throne.

<comment><USER44> These are really good points and I agree with the idea of what you're saying 100%. I also agree with the specifics of Amazon and where they have clearly gone past the "nice guy" line.

I would love to hear if there are examples of companies that have "done everything right" that are still loved. I feel like there is a natural journalistic hatred towards anyone very large (and sometimes it is totally deserved). Perhaps there are no pure large companies and that's why...or perhaps most business decisions are tradeoffs where either side won't please everyone and that just opens up room for attack. I really don't know the answer (even if we agree that Amazon deserves the negative press).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> Whilst I'm not sure it's healthy to have one company so dominant, and whilst Amazon's product range is not perfect:

1\. In terms of logistics it seems to me they handed every other logistic company's arse to them - even those that have been running for _hundreds of years_ and thus which you might hope to have some expertise in the field, and conversely even the newer companies which you might hope are relatively unburdened by inertia etc. Prime is awesome.

2\. At the risk of sounding heartless, I don't care about all the struggling small competitors. Times and industries change, and Amazon's approach is simply more efficient. Does it really benefit society to have x thousands of people running their own e-commerce business rather than finding something else to do? Should we be putting restrictions on weaving machines in order to support manual weavers? Or supporting buggy whip manufacturers by taxing car makers? Where do we draw the line?

3\. I don't care about the tax avoidance etc. I'd rather see Bezos spend the money on rocketry than have governments wasting yet more on handouts. The former will probably benefit humanity more in the end.

4\. Price. If Amazon weren't almost always equal or very slightly above competitors I wouldn't use it. But it is. Why should I pay more? To support ye olde historical e-commerce shoppe?

<comment><USER47> > Should we be putting restrictions on weaving machines in order to support > manual weavers?

Well, we should if behind the scenes those weaving machines were kept operational by an army of low-wage workers.

<comment><USER46> In the UK we had (pre-CV) virtual full employment, and a reasonable minimum wage. The average person had plenty of other options, and nobody was forcing anyone to work at Amazon.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> This article is very focused on the UK but its still possible to try and avoid supporting Amazon if you are willing to pay for shipping or use alternative outlets like EBay although many of those selling on that platform still use Amazon for fulfillment.

<comment><USER49> Well, I tried to buy an item from eBay 3 weeks ago. eBay said the article was shipped few days after the purchase. 3 weeks later, nothing came. I asked the vendor, what happened, can you give me the tracking number? The vendor's reply: "our supplier haven't given us the tracking number yet." You mean to tell me that the item hasn't been shipped yet, despite that you told me it did 3 weeks ago? Yep. That's eBay.

<comment><USER50> On the other hand, eBay customer support is very friendly to buyers. Open a case the day after the advertised delivery, you will get refunded.

As a long time seller/buyer I've developed a set of heuristics around eBay (most of them obvious - avoid non US based accounts, descriptions where the photos are clearly not the actual item itself, etc) and I've only had one or two bad surprises in over 10 years. Both times customer support came through.

<comment><USER51> A little _too_ friendly.

A buyer screwed me out of 5 drone (DJI Mavic 2) batteries and $700. Two weeks after getting the drone, "none of the batteries work". Really? All five? I was skeptical, but said I'd do a partial refund if he'd commit in writing that the partial refund was contingent on him returning the batteries so I could repair, or replace (at least two were still in warranty, if there was ever even a problem). At no point did he show any actual evidence of battery issues (DJI Go battery diagnostics, etc.), just "it's not showing anything".

He sent a message agreeing, via eBay messages with the text I'd sent him, even with "should I not do this, I understand that seller will dispute the transaction".

Not even an hour later he sent another message "USPS won't ship damaged batteries so I am not returning them".

I went to eBay with all this, and his agreement. eBay said he could keep the $700. And the five batteries.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER52> I have done most of my pandemic shopping on Amazon, but have had luck with 4/5 externally run sites, most of which are on shopify. In the first 3 weeks after the first shelter in place orders, Amazon was about a week slower than the rest. Now it switched, and it seems Amazon is faster again. However I am now regularly doing business with a few other sites that have products Amazon doesn't.

</comment><comment><USER53> In Germany: go to Amazon.de, search for the product. Check if it's available from third party sellers. Copy the seller's name, google for their online shop. If they have one, buy direct. Bit clunky but pretty often cheaper.

<comment><USER54> Also pay on delivery, make the delivery guy wait 5 minutes and open the package -> test 5 minutes for obvious flaws. This is the best way and cheaper.

Do treat the delivery guy with something though, I usually offer homemade sweets and/or free alcohol beer. They deserve it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> I haven't bought anything from Amazon for about 5 years, because I moved, but I really feel uncomfortable about Amazon bashing. I think Amazon has done a huge favor for online stores. I think AWS is incredible service that powers a lot of great online services. You absolutely should criticize Amazon for poor labor practices and you are free to avoid buying from them on ethical grounds. But I think it the end you might hurt more people you are trying to protect. We all love to have our favorite evils. Facebook yesterday, Amazon today, Microsoft ten years ago. But the history teaches us that the only effective way to limit monopolies and stop them from abusing their powers is strong government actions. Boycotts don't work.

<comment><USER56> Boycotts seem to have some effect.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boycotts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boycotts)

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Title should be updated to specify that this is UK only. The Guardian is UK- based but covers international news as well.

<comment><USER57> If it was US focused, would it be ok to not have US in the title?

<comment><USER14> If the article was about US-based alternatives to Amazon, then no, it wouldn't be OK. The same principle would apply.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER58> I wonder if it is _thanks to Amazon_ that so many other online retailers are now offering service "as good as Amazon".

Because they have to. It certainly wasn't always the case.

</comment><comment><USER59> For many hardware and photography needs, I will choose B&H instead of Amazon.

<comment><USER60> Not only photography, anything dropped shipped from a warehouse. For example, if I need a printer or laptop in a pinch B&H will get it to me pretty quick. Pretty much anything electronics wise they are great source.

Going back to photography, you totally trust B&H. You know the equipment has been treated well since it arrived from the factory. No chance of grey market stuff either.

</comment></comment><comment><USER61> Does anyone have further CD (or FLAC) vendors they'd recommend for uncensored music? I often have a hard time finding CDs outside of Amazon or FLACs beyond Bandcamp. For example, Con by Tegan & Sara, The Jungle Is The Only Way Out by Mereba (which even Amazon doesn't have in CD), and Blueprint by Ferry Corsten. I didn't see them on Very, Zavvi, or Hive mentioned in the article.

[https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DI5SXM6](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DI5SXM6) [https://www.amazon.com/Jungle-Only-Way-Out- Explicit/dp/B07NZ...](https://www.amazon.com/Jungle-Only-Way-Out- Explicit/dp/B07NZXB295) [https://www.amazon.com/Blueprint-FERRY- CORSTEN/dp/B071S3RLL3](https://www.amazon.com/Blueprint-FERRY- CORSTEN/dp/B071S3RLL3)

</comment><comment><USER62> Normally the media in the UK can't have 'how to avoid retailer x' articles as that means 'retailer x' isn't going to place adverts in their paper. However, online, I imagine it does not matter, ads just arrive without negotiation between 'retailer x' and the publication/paper.

Currently avoiding Amazon however I can't get a garden sieve/riddle in my preferred local store. So I have to go on Amazon if I really want one.

My local store has a sieve for £5 when in stock. That is all the sieve options, take it or leave it. The decision is easy. But, on Amazon, there is paralysis of choice. Hundreds of sieves to choose from, invariably more expensive than the £5 local store price. With shipping on top.

The choice works with books but not with everything. A decent retailer only sells top quality stuff with an affordable option and maybe a super deluxe option, so your choice is between a small amount of items. Amazon doesn't help with that.

</comment><comment><USER63> I order from [https://bookshop.org](https://bookshop.org). It's a sort of umbrella for local bookstores: one storefront, many vendors. I select my favorite local bookstore and support them.

<comment><USER64> It's hard to beat Amazon on prices though. For comparison, look at the prices of best sellers. Sometimes the difference is as much as 40%. Trying bookofthemonth.com for a change.

</comment></comment><comment><USER65> I got sick of Amazon trying to squeeze the last cent from me that I now consciously avoid it, even in case it is "the cheapest".

It happened to me many time that Amazon show me higher price when I go there and search directly, then when I open the same product page by copy&pasting the Amazon url in the incognito window.

Not to mention that coming to Amazon through the idealo.de or some other meta engine gives sometimes even better price.

To hell with them, most of the competition in Germany doesn't do those scummy things. And the delivery and return policies are mandated by law anyway.

</comment><comment><USER66> I see a lot of articles trying to reason their dislike for Amazon into logical dot points. I think it's enough to just not like the idea of any entity having so much of the general market.

</comment><comment><USER67> It's like "Let's buy something not made in China"... Amazon is very convenient and at some point addictive (same day or 2 days delivery) way of online shopping. They got big enough that now they can dictate rules. So unless some other company with really great customer service, delivery speed, and return policy comes up, Amazon will be dominant in the US and Europe. Alibaba/AliExpress is an asian amazon.

</comment><comment><USER68> Given [https://www.marketwatch.com/story/facebook-google-amazon- to-...](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/facebook-google-amazon-to-be-hit- with-new-2-uk-digital-service-tax-2020-03-11)

Then why is this not only overlooked by this article, but not even touched upon. That I find most curious.

</comment><comment><USER69> I recently found out of a site ([https://syessa.com](https://syessa.com)) selling household items (hand soap, detergent, dish liquid, etc.) at equal to or cheaper prices than Amazon. Better to support small businesses! I ordered from them last thursday and received my order today.

</comment><comment><USER70> How to avoid Amazon: Try shopping for anything and you will find it's all sold out or delayed by a month.

</comment><comment> bash-j I've discovered if you search for local online shops you get poor results, but if you visit the websites of local businesses, quite a few have implemented home delivery. I guess they aren't good at SEO.

</comment><comment><USER71> I was on Amazon a few weeks ago, clicked on the ratings graph, and was returned a page with nothing but an ascii art dog. The company just seems to be a mess.

</comment><comment><USER72> Amazon used to be good for more obscure, hard to find things. I now use Ebay for such stuff. It is more transparent and I can communicate directly with seller.

</comment><comment><USER73> They mention Target as an alternative in this. What makes them better/different?

</comment><comment><USER74> Ok, let me try for the US:

newegg.com (Electronics)

alibris.com (books)

monoprice.com (electronics)

bhphotovideo.com (photo)

purebulk.com (dietary supplements)

ebay.com (everything)

</comment><comment><USER75> Can't you use a service such as pricerunner.com or pricespy.co.uk

</comment><comment><USER76> We're explaining the basics of shopping to people now for clicks...

</comment><comment><USER77> No Amazon in South Africa... That makes it easier to avoid them :P

</comment><comment><USER78> i needed a 12mm masonry bit to floor-mount an amazon safe i ordered and was surprised to find that in a local diy store the drill bit was £1.99 and on amazon it was £12.99.

</comment><comment><USER79> Why would anyone buy anything from Amazon?

</comment><comment><USER80> Do people not know how to shop online outside of Amazon?

I'm not paying more to buy things through other platforms. If something is the same price on Amazon as it is elsewhere - the other place will lose until they have faster shipping or some other benefit. And this is coming from someone who buys a lot of stuff elsewhere and does a lot more than the average consumer when it comes to shopping. I do buy stuff elsewhere frequently. (I just spent $600 on soldering equipment through TEquipment, Louis Rossman's store, and some Amazon stuff because I couldn't find the stuff elsewhere for cheaper) The reason I do it isn't because I'm anti-Amazon - I buy stuff through various sources because I'm a thoroughbred slickdealer. (And you can bet your butt I looked up all those items to see if there were ever any deals on them or if I could get them used for cheaper - odd stuff doesn't get posted much about, sadly)

So, yeah, I buy stuff outside of Amazon... However, I'm a bit annoyed because I feel like the quality control is really bad at other sources far too often. With some shops I feel like they're gonna call me up and say, "Hey, I noticed you bought X, Y, and Z, do you want to buy this too?" And this just pads delivery time by days. They're slow to ship often enough as well. You buy an item online but you didn't know the shop was closed for 2 weeks. Sometimes - it's good. I remember I got $100 off my vacuum cleaner because they offered free overnight shipping for these vacuum cleaners - but I could get $100 off the price if I chose ground shipping. (Not an option online) That was worth knowing but that's rare! Most of the time I get a call like, "I noticed you bought X which is an accessory to Y, and Y wasn't in your order, do you want to buy Y?" No, of course not. I didn't buy Y because you charge too much for it and I can get it for cheaper elsewhere!

On top of this - even big names mess up too often! I tried to buy an Elgato capture card off through Bestbuy this last week. It wasn't even available anywhere else except Bestbuy. I used Google Shopping in the process because it was quicker/easier than going through Bestbuy's website. In the end - I got shipped a god damn microwave that I had to return today via UPS. Huge pain in the ass. I had to go to the local UPS store twice because I went _too early_ (never thought that would happen!) to the UPS store the first time. (They're open 11-5) Yes, that stuff could happen with Amazon but I feel like they might have slightly better inventory management than that and would recognize when a 50lb+ item is being shipped instead of a 1lb. Surprisingly, the shipping labels (both ways) were only for objects < 5lbs. And yet UPS took them both times.

Target - same crap. Order something for store pickup even - no go. They cancel the order days later saying it isn't in stock. Home Depot? Fulfills half your order when you clearly need the whole thing. [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22795970](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22795970) I avoid store pickup when I can now. It's usually faster for me to find the item(s) in store and go through self-checkout than to wait in line at pickup.

I'm not pro-Amazon but I am not pro-poor experience for the same or more price. There's a reason Amazon is doing well compared to the competition and it's because they've made it much lower friction.

</comment><comment><USER81> Why do we hate Amazon again?

</comment><comment><USER82> Let's hope none of those sites use AWS...

</comment><comment><USER83> My books from Amazon almost always arrive bent, dirty, etc. I order from the publishers whenever possible.

<comment><USER84> How do you find the prices? I've only ever looked on Amazon but even for new releases they seem to be considerably discounted from the publisher's list price.

<comment><USER83> Good question. It depends on the publisher. I usually look up both. If Amazon is significantly cheaper (tens of dollars), then I'll order from Amazon. If they send me garbage, I'll order from the publisher and return the Amazon book.

I may be in a niche circumstance, but most of the books I order from the publishers are within about $5 of Amazon. I don't know the exact count, but I have approximately 600 books. Worth it to have nice ones!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER85> Is avoiding Amazon so hard that a guide is needed? I have only ever purchased something from Amazon once because someone gave me a gift card. It wasn't any cheaper or more convenient than ebay so I'm not sure what the craze over Amazon is about.</comment>


NASA releases stunning photos of Earth at night - <AUTHOR> http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/NightLights/

<comment><USER2> Does anyone know why there's such a grid-like pattern of lights in the midwest of the US?

<comment><USER3> It's the legacy of the national surveying system begun by the Land Ordinance of 1785. [0]

Except for the thirteen original states, almost the entire country was surveyed and platted into square "townships" [1] of six miles a side. These were subdivided into square-mile "sections", and roads were built along section lines. Where there were no major rivers, towns were generally established at the intersections of these roads.

For more historical color (and stereotypes), try "Why the Midwest is Square" [2].

0\. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Land_Survey_System>

1\. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survey_township>

2\. <http://www.surveyhistory.org/why_the_midwest_is_square1.htm>

<comment><USER4> Also recommend Measuring America, very readable history of the American survey. [http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=8989073835&...](http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=8989073835&searchurl=sts%3Dt%26tn%3Dmeasuring%2Bamerica)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> What the heck is going on in the middle of Australia? There is NOTHING there (not even stuff that might burn!), yet the map shows a pile of lights.

<comment><USER6> Mining. It doesn't make sense to me that there are so many spots that are larger than Sydney or Melbourne (sprawling cities of 4M people). I wouldn't be surprised to see some lights there, but I highly doubt that the miners are setting up lighting grids that rival the street lights of cities 70km by 70km in size.

(edit: for comparison, Greater Melbourne and Greater London are roughly the same size)

<comment><USER7> It can't be mining, otherwise we would see similar patterns in South Australia (at least) with similar patterns likely to be visible in every other state as well.

I'd be interested in knowing why this is so as well.

<comment><USER6> There's similar patterns in north central Siberia (loaded with primary resources) and a couple of other places. There's a weird bloom affect on these spots that's not evident in populated parts of the map. You can even see the bloom effect on the north coast of Alaska, where I'd be extremely surprised that there's light of that level.

My guess is that they didn't quite finish the job off right and got lazy when manipulating these areas.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> While I find these images extremely interesting, let me add a contrarian voice: the associations that such night-time photos bring up in me are primarily about waste and habitat destruction.

<comment><USER9> We humans also need a habitat.

<comment><USER10> Then why do we destroy the part of the habitat that provides us with oxygen and stable climate?

<comment><USER11> "We" don't destroy our immediate habitat, "we" destroy other people's habitats. Wasn't until recently that it became obvious that such a behavior destroyed our own habitat regardless, and even today it's not clear to many people why they should stop. Until then it was just a morality problem, and capitalism has no notion of morality.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> How bright should lights be to turn up on this? Why can't we see Aircraft carriers/Big merchant vessels or offshore oil wells or even research stations on the Antartic?

</comment><comment><USER13> One interesting place is down the south of Argentina, off the east coast. Although there is no land there, there is the (almost spiral) pattern of lights in the ocean. They seem about as bright as Melbourne, and more expansive.

I was told once that these are fishermen, who tend to congregate in one area at night time. I'm not sure if it is for social reasons, or business reasons, or something else.

<comment><USER14> While perhaps some are offshore oil rigs [1] - many are arrays of lights used to attract bait fish, phytoplankton, and squid [2] in order to increase commercial fishing yields.

[1] <http://blogs.airspacemag.com/pettit/2012/03/mar-del-fuego/>

[2] [http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2009/09/29/squids- an...](http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2009/09/29/squids-and-light- pollution/)

<comment><USER13> Ahh, thank you for the links. They are some cool pictures from space, that really show how bright the oil rigs are.

I can take solice in the fact I was about 1/8th right about the fishermen :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> It would be great to have this integrated into a mapping software lige google maps, next to the existing day time satellite layer. For instance, this would be useful to find good spots for watching the stars at night or to find remote camping spots or hiking areas.

</comment><comment><USER16> I've seen heatmaps of the population density of the USA before, so I shouldn't be surprised. But seeing the city lights at night... I feel like that's a real fact now, not just an abstraction.

</comment><comment><USER17> Interesting things in both images:

In the world map you can clearly see where North Korea is: just look for the really clean line. Pretty depressing.

On the US map, west of New Jersey (or south-west of NYC, if that is easier to find), you can somewhat faintly see that the light outlines the shape of the Appalachian Mountains. Check out the Google maps relief map of Pennsylvania as a comparison: <http://goo.gl/7xsN9>

</comment><comment><USER18> If you enjoy these, and you have BBC iPlayer I highly recommend the 3 part Supersized Earth [http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00zy57x/Supersized_Ear...](http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00zy57x/Supersized_Earth_A_Place_to_Live/) for more scary/wow Anthropocene material.

<comment><USER19> And if you're in the UK.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Having lived inside London for the past year and a half, the M25 is a decent psychological barrier between London and the rest of the country but seeing it as a pretty distinct glowing line was something else.

</comment><comment><USER21> Mirror ? The link is down.

<comment><USER22> Google cache is working for me:

[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Aearth...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Aearthobservatory.nasa.gov%2FFeatures%2FNightLights%2F&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en- US:official&client=firefox-a)

The images seem to still be up, even though the site's patchy:

[http://eoimages2.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/imagerecords/79000/797...](http://eoimages2.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/imagerecords/79000/79765/dnb_land_ocean_ice.2012.3600x1800.jpg) [http://eoimages2.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/imagerecords/79000/798...](http://eoimages2.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/imagerecords/79000/79800/dnb_united_states_lrg.jpg)

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> Does anyone know what the dark area on the FL/GA border is? I never realized it was unpopulated and Google Maps doesn't give much information about the area as a whole.

<comment><USER24> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okefenokee_Swamp>

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Love how I'm in 2012 and my computer still chokes to open a 8MB JPEG. Wonderful images though.

<comment><USER26> Consider yourself lucky you've actually got to see anything. My browser already crashed 3 time before I got a chance to see anything

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> its postings like these that inspire me to think that the internet and the web is just a means of a global communication tool to create unity -- thanks.

</comment><comment><USER28> fyi, the mysterious cluster of lights in northwest Siberia (Yamalia) is Gazprom

</comment><comment><USER29> They need to host this site on a Raspberry Pi.</comment>


Ask HN: Quirky Ad Theory+Text (Job/Team Recruiting Applications) - <AUTHOR> Been experimenting with the following job posting ad on Craigslist Las Vegas+Toronto over the last few weeks and have received some amazing replies+resumes. I have a few theories why it works so well, and the types of people that get filtered through the process. Does anyone have any tips on how I/we might improve on it?
Please feel free to use it to run experiments and test things out, but I kindly ask that anyone share data with others to help us all learn something. Thanks!
--
Theory 1: Filters out people with good communication skills, and since these are my own questions, if I like reading the replies, then I should consider that accordingly.
Theory 2: Brings out leaders, and provides more details about potential, vs past experience.
Couple others but those are ones that I keep repeating in my head and thinking: "wow, this person/reply is amazing, and s/he might not have never applied to our company if we framed the conversation differently".
--
Iterations:
1.0: http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/wri/5604845547.html
2.0: http://toronto.craigslist.ca/tor/eng/5642681178.html
-- <comment><AUTHOR> Plain Text:

\---

WANTED: Quirky Individuals to Join a Fast Growing Startup to Build the Future (as we want it to be)

"Properly defined, a startup is the largest group of people you can convince of a plan to build a different future." Peter Thiel

ARE YOU:

Curious? Exceptionally clever? Addicted to technology? Willing to venture into the unknown? Willing to adapt fast? Willing to join an already weird team that wants to learn and teach new things? Passionate about a hobby that you'd love to share with other people? Wanting to change the present to make the future better?

DO YOU: Like solving problems? Like finding new ways of more efficiently doing things? Like spending time on a spreadsheet to help you make better decisions? Love breaking things just to put them back together? Think that grit is all it takes to get something done? Think that you'd be a good match for the team? Think that every job posting should be like this? Want to know more?

Are you brilliant? Are you bold? We're hiring. Explore the Warehouse.

TO APPLY: Please send us an email with the following information: Background information Resume Answers to the following 6 questions:

What important truth do very few people agree with you on? What is a great company that no one has started yet? What are some of your favorite websites? What are some of your favorite books? What would you do if you knew that you only had 24 hours left on this planet? What do you really believe in?

Thank you for taking the time to read this. We wish you well in your search for a new and better future.

What can we do to improve? Please feel free to send us questions and/or comments.

\---

</comment><comment><USER2> cool idea!</comment>


Big campus protests after University of Calif. OKs 32% tuition hike - <AUTHOR> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34044243/ns/us_news-education/

<comment><USER2> I know for this particular example the problem is tightly related to California's state budget problems, but the astronomical increase in the cost of a college education over the past generation drives me nuts.

It seems like this is one area where market forces can't do their job, because almost no one seems willing to forgo paying the exorbitant price of a college education, so there seem to be no pressures for prices to decline or remain stable. Instead we've changed the culture so most of this generation starts their working lives with tens of thousands of dollars in debt. If you're not willing to put up with this, you could very well be shutting yourself out of the middle class. It's not right.

<comment><USER3> I'm not exactly Mr. Free Market, but as far as I can tell the market appears to be functioning as intended.

People place a _very_ high value on what they perceive to be a good college education, and this value is typically how much student debt they can acquire. There are well-known ways to significantly cut the cost of your college education: going to in-state schools, and conducting the first two years of your education at a community college. Despite this many people shun in-state institutions (unless they're in a state like California which has numerous highly regarded public universities, but then again they're all hard to get into), and even more laugh the the notion of Jr. College, determining it only fit for misfits teens and continuing adult education Note: I don't agree with that assessment, but it serves to illustrate the fact that college has become so closely tied to social status, making pricey schools all the more desirable.

As for what's driving tuition upwards, it's probably the fact that the modern University has become a luxury resort. They've got an array of clinics, career councilors, psychologists, paid tutors, entire buildings designated for non- athletic student recreation, bike and jogging paths, numerous social groups, reasonably well-maintained facilities and immaculately manicured campuses.

Further driving costs upward, besides state budget shortfalls for public universities, is the fact that they are very aggressive at handing out scholarships to attract top-notch students, along with the significant amount of marketing that is conducted to get everyone else to shell out big-bucks for their undergraduate programs.

And when you look at study after study that shows you're going to earn significantly more over your lifetime if you get a college education, is it any surprise people are willing to eat the high upfront costs? Paying $50,000 to a student loan for an additional $10K+/year in earnings potential seems like a bargain to me. Granted, it's not always going to work out for the best, but hey you gotta take risks to get ahead.

<comment><USER4> Another possible reason for tuition increases is Baumol's Cost Disease ( <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumols_cost_disease> ), in which the relative cost of providing a service grows rapidly because it hasn't had productivity improvements. When the amount of time needed to teach someone how to compose an essay hasn't changed since before 1960, it's not surprising that it's gotten more expensive compared to the price of microwave ovens.

Since most of our economic activities experience greater productivity growth than we've seen in education, it's not surprising that educational expenditures are growing faster than inflation. I'm hopeful that this will change as web-based education goes mainstream.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I found fault in the student protests even though these fees are going to affect me quite a bit next semester. It seems the money being raised is being spent to keep all the engineering, business, economics, and law professors around while the other majors are likely going to suffer severe cuts or flat out closure. I know for the Hacker News crowd those previous majors are likely the ones that matter most. Unfortunately, Berkeley offers a great deal of interesting classes where the professors will either leave or they will be cut. Linguistics and history to name a few personal favorites (Disclosure: I am a history major) are going to be two such classes. As much as people like to see a degree in terms of economic potential, of how much money a person can make with a degree, in the end it is about knowledge no matter what field you study. In my experience while I felt that computer science taught me a whole lot about computers, studying history has taught me a lot more about life.

I am not blaming the administration for the fee increases. They might be large and bureaucratic, but they nonetheless have higher ups that they are responsible to. The real blame goes to the people of California and its legislature. All tax increases in the assembly have to be voted by a 2/3 majority while a tax decreases do not. This is near impossible as the assemblymen and assemblywomen tend to be along hardcore party lines. Further, adding Prop 13 ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_(1978...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_\(1978\)#Negative_effects)) has not helped at all making it near impossible. Ending Prop 13 would give the state quite a bit in revenue to continue funding higher education and fund many of the chronic deficits California faces. Unfortunately, even though the California public views higher education as an important goal they also want low taxes at the same time which is impossible to sustain (if 8 years of Bush have taught us anything). Those are opposing goals!

Professor Lakoff is attempting to propose a ballot which will change the tax initiatives to majority rules. It simply reads, "All legislative actions on revenue and budget must be determined by a majority vote." It is called the California Democracy Act (<http://www.californiademocracyact.com>)

<comment><USER6> > Ending Prop 13 would give the state quite a bit in revenue to continue > funding higher education and fund many of the chronic deficits California > faces.

No it wouldn't because local property taxes don't fund higher education and never have; higher ed has always been funded at the state level.

> Ending Prop 13 would give the state quite a bit in revenue to continue > funding higher education and fund many of the chronic deficits California > faces.

You're assuming that CA has a revenue problem. It doesn't. It spends gobs more than most other states (per capita).

CA has a spending problem. That can't be solved with more revenues.

> . Unfortunately, even though the California public views higher education as > an important goal they also want low taxes at the same time which is > impossible to sustain (if 8 years of Bush have taught us anything). Those > are opposing goals!

The US govt also has a spending problem.

It is possible to not have a spending problem. Texas (among others) manages to have decent schools and low taxes.

[http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe- voegli1-2009nov01,...](http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe- voegli1-2009nov01,0,825554.story)

<comment><USER7> > You're assuming that CA has a revenue problem. It doesn't. It spends gobs > more than most other states (per capita).

CA is pretty much precisely in the middle of per capita spending:

[http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparemaptable.jsp?ind=32&#...</a>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> $10k is a GOOD DEAL for a UC education. Carnegie Mellon's tuition runs 4-5x that.

And in other "screw the students" news

[http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/21561211/detail.htm...](http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/21561211/detail.html)

tl;dr Pittsburgh Mayor comes up with bad budget, needs cash, screws college students with 1% tuition tax (1% of $50k is 500 bucks)

<comment><USER9> Ravenstahl is an idiot. It's like someone told him "hey, hospitals and students are really important to Pittsburgh and they don't pay very man taxes" and he decided the answer was to start taxing students.

I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think this tax is legal and neither do the universities. If this goes through, Ravenstahl is going to waste a lot of money defending himself from the inevitable court battle.

<comment><USER10> Luke only cares about old people, and how they vote. This is Pittsburgh! It's the correct strategy, unfortunatly.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Long term, higher education is screwed. There's no real way to improve the efficiency of 1prof:10-100 students. Most attempts just result in an inferior product. Increasing productivity in all other areas means that professor and the resulting education gets more and more expensive (everything else gets cheaper in comparison).

<comment><USER12> Long term, haircutting is screwed. There's no real way to improve the efficiency of 1hairstylist:10-100 clients. Most attempts just result in an inferior product. Increasing productivity in all other areas means that the hairstylist and the resulting haircut get more and more expensive (everything else gets cheaper in comparison).

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> It would be interesting if, over time, more and more private schools' endowments allowed them to eliminate tuition, so that in the end public schools were the more expensive choice.

<comment><USER14> I wish you were joking but my xgf went to a private liberal arts college in the mid-atlantic. I chose the state school route because it would be cheaper, I was told. Even though we were similar economically and academically, her tuition bill was far lower than mine, class sizes were smaller and more focused, and she got far more help in practically everything.

Unlike my school her school was basically the same size over the last 5 decades (no new buildings, no new mortgages, no new tuition increases). Mine went on a building spree of new dorms, cafeterias, renovating the stadiums, new recreation center, and a hotel. When the shit hit the fan they stuck the students, who weren't even asked about it, with the bill. They were told the alumni donors and state would pay for it. But donors and the state can stop paying when they don't feel like it. The students don't have that luxury.

<comment><USER6> > But donors and the state can stop paying when they don't feel like it. The > students don't have that luxury.

Sure they do - it's called transferring. And for potential students, it's called going elsewhere.

Yes, students have higher transaction costs, but that's just another way of saying that they should investigate more before making an initial decision.

To put it another way, did you really think that the free lunch would continue, that all of the spiffy stuff didn't have costs that you might have to pay?

Decisions have consequences, even for college students.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I wonder how many of those students voted in the last election.

<comment><USER16> It wouldn't have mattered. All the tax increase ballot propositions went down by over a million votes.

Furthermore, because of the way California is gerrymandered, I would be amazed if any students live in districts that aren't over 60% democratic.

Isn't it grand? You can't vote anybody out, and unless you have over 2/3 of the districts, you can't do anything worth a damn either, because the parties live in separate realities.

Here's to the rising tide lifting our boats out this mess...

<comment><USER17> Why does everyone assume this is a tax issue?

[http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Doc...](http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=513)

I count only 9 states with higher tax revenue per capita.</comment></comment></comment>


Why I Keep a Research Blog - <AUTHOR> http://gregorygundersen.com/blog/2020/01/12/why-research-blog/ <comment><USER2> _" Writing is Nature's way of showing you how sloppy your thinking is"_ [0]

Writing is my primary tool. I keep a blog... and journals. I keep a journal for my reading: what I've read, what I thought about it, choice things I'd like to recall. I keep a journal of my mathematical reading, thoughts, and work. Programming too!

Keeping your writing in a blog and sharing it with others puts a bit of pressure on you to keep a public persona but it's worth doing, as the author points out, to keep one honest. It has taken a while for me to learn this as evidenced on my blog but I have taken it more to heart in recent years.

Be careful writing with an authoritative voice if you yourself have not researched the topic deep enough to convincingly defend your findings! It's much easier for your audience to accept your work if they know you're in the process of discovery when they find an error or omission. It makes you more credible as well.

The more you know, the more you realize how little you know.

[0] [https://www.azquotes.com/quote/721037](https://www.azquotes.com/quote/721037)

<comment><USER3> Re: "Writing is Nature's way of showing you how sloppy your thinking is"

This is why I dislike the down voting capability on sites. There's an impulse the person dislikes what they read or from how they interpreted it, and then they are able to quell that feeling with a single action vs. having to put the effort into thinking and articulating into words what they're feeling, why they are feeling it, and allow it to be publicly scrutinized - hopefully with respectful responses. This allows not only scrutiny and discourse to occur, however it also offers an opportunity for OP to potentially learn something - whether that their language wasn't articulated clearly enough and so interpreted how they didn't expect or other.

<comment><USER4> What forum rules would you like to see experiments with?

<comment><USER3> The easiest one would simply be removing the down vote mechanism. If with an existing site then can compare with the years' prior stats - assuming they've been recorded; I don't know if HN does. There are a number of things you could monitor - would be interesting to see if any sets of people with the same behaviour change their behaviour more than just down voting, like if they stay on the site more or less, if they comment more or less; perhaps doing word use analysis on these different sub sets before and after the down vote change, what language are people who are prone to down voting using vs. those who only comment or only up vote but don't down vote, etc.

<comment><USER5> So like Facebook or YouTube comments (downvotes on YouTube don't really do anything) ?

<comment><USER6> Do you have evidence for this? It doesn't change the publicly displayed number, but I was under the impression that it does change the ordering. That did seem to be the case last time I experimented with this. On a video with only a dozen or so comments I downvoted a comment with no upvotes, and then opened the video page in an incognito tab, and the comment I downvoted was right at the bottom. Could have been a coincidence, but the probability of that seemed low at the time.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I absolutely love this. It's a great distillation of many of the reasons I myself keep a blog. It's a means, and an end, of learning more, and keeping yourself accountable to your knowledge.

 _It is difficult to know what you should know when you have a lot to learn and are in an intelligence-signaling environment. A side effect of having written detailed technical notes is that I calibrate my confidence on a topic. If I now understand something, I am sure of it and can explain myself clearly. If I don't understand something, I have a sense of why it is difficult to understand or what prerequisite knowledge I am missing._

I like this passage in particular, and I divine a second meaning between the lines, and that is: developing understanding, and then putting it out for the world to see, requires _bravery_. The more you do it, the bolder you become. It gives you some skin in the game. You can't just deceive yourself that you know something. And, if you're doing fundamental research (like the author), you gotta be brave - because there's a good chance you could be wrong. Many people are _very_ afraid of being wrong.

As an aside: I still get nervous every time I publish a post on my own blog.

<comment><USER8> I don't have a blog, but I find it much, _much_ easier to write comments here on HN. And I greatly improved my electronics knowledge through answering questions on electronics.stackexchange. There are some important questions which are easy to phrase but hard to answer. One day I want to write the a canonical introduction to electron flow models, provisionally titled "Lies you have been told about the electron".

I also plan to dig out my highest-rated HN comments and turn them into blog posts or even an ebook some day. There's probably 10-100k words I've written here already.

<comment><USER7> _One day I want to write the a canonical introduction to electron flow models, provisionally titled "Lies you have been told about the electron"._

Ha! I'm just starting to grasp that - been going through chapter 8 of _Art of Electronics, 3rd Ed_. Getting a hard and fast education on noise. Shot noise is fascinating. I still don't have a great mental model to compare it to. The closes I've come is dripping water vs a continuous stream of water.

 _I also plan to dig out my highest-rated HN comments and turn them into blog posts or even an ebook some day._

I had this same notion the other day. It's neat how an internet post can inspire such clarity of thought.

<comment><USER9> If I get into a long conversation on HN I usually turn it around and make it into a blog post, cleaning up the arguments and discussion. I only write for myself and don't publicize my personal blog but I've had some of those then turn around and be posted back to HN by someone else which becomes an interesting lifecycle of internet arguments :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> > I hypothesize that jargon is especially susceptible to this kind of misuse > because an expert listener might infer a mutual understanding that does not > exist. _This feeling of verbal common ground can even be gamed._ Many of us > have done this on exams, hoping for partial credit by stitching together the > outline of a proof or using the right words in an essay with the hopes that > the professor connects the dots for us.

(Emphasis mine)

You could write an entire book on this.

</comment><comment><USER11> Off-topic, but Gregory - I was a participant in your C4Q Python workshop several years ago! So good to see that you're doing well in academia, and great article. Agree with many of the points you've made regarding writing-- as an example, one trick I've found for getting better at technical interviews was creating walk-throughs of problems I struggled with.

Thanks for the great read and for helping to kick off my software engineering career!

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey, it sounds like you're still programming. Glad to hear it's going well!

<comment><USER12> Are you still putting on that workshop?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Great article and very concise. I've found myself and my writing "addiction" represented. There are many concepts I couldn't grasps until I tried to put them to paper.

On a different note: does anyone happen to know if that's a standard Wordpress theme? I've been looking to find a simple theme and this (or something similarly minimalist and text-focused) would be perfect for my needs.

<comment><USER14> This seems to be a static site generator.

[http://gregorygundersen.com/blog/2020/01/12/why-research- blo...](http://gregorygundersen.com/blog/2020/01/12/why-research-blog/) has a HTTP header last updated on 01/13/2020 04:34:31.

[http://gregorygundersen.com/blog/2019/12/23/random- fourier-f...](http://gregorygundersen.com/blog/2019/12/23/random-fourier- features/) is 01/13/2020 04:34:30, or 1 second earlier.

Also the source code has a link to [http://gregorygundersen.com/css/markdown.css](http://gregorygundersen.com/css/markdown.css) which 404's.

<comment><USER15> For his css files try [http://gregorygundersen.com/css/](http://gregorygundersen.com/css/) Better still try his GitHub [https://github.com/gwgundersen](https://github.com/gwgundersen) especially his notebook software [https://github.com/gwgundersen/anno](https://github.com/gwgundersen/anno)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Fantastic article! All true and well-explained. This Grothendieck quote

 _If you don't see that what you are working on is almost obvious, then you are not ready to work on that yet._

reminds me of

 _Live in the future, then build what 's missing_

[http://www.paulgraham.com/startupideas.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/startupideas.html)

The way I see it, both are saying that if you want to be creative, then you can't just think, study, or hope for inspiration. You have to immerse yourself and your mind in a different environment, in a different frame, and then new problems and solutions will be in plain view.

Another way to say it is that half of the problem is choosing the problem, or formulating the problem. But if you start from the same situation or frame, then you're likely to come up with the same problems as everyone else.

</comment><comment><USER17> Due to some frustrating policies of the company I work for, I was told that I can't blog about anything technical, without the risk of being fired and possibly even sued due to some ridiculous non-compete that I really shouldn't have signed.

I still _write_ the posts, they just live on a hard drive in my basement, because there's still value in writing. I just wish I could give back to the community and/or benefit from people auditing what I'm doing wrong.

<comment><USER18> You should probably quit.

<comment><USER17> You're probably right, but these kinds of insane, all-encompassing non-compete clauses are pretty common in most large corporations (at least in my understanding), and if I were to leave I'd be sacrificing all my stock grants and the like. There's no point in me quitting if I don't think I can get something better.

I could of course go to a startup or something, but I have a wife in school and a mortgage to pay. I don't really mind upheaving my life to take a bit of a risk on a startup, but I think it might be a bit selfish if there's a risk of it causing problems for other people.

<comment><USER18> There may be many that have non-competes, but I think you will find that many of them would allow blogging (or at least be willing to make an exception). Stopping engineers from blogging is typically not the reason they have the non-compete.

Alternatively you could try to convince your employer to add an exception to the non-compete. It's not unthinkable that they would allow it, if it's just for blogging.

<comment><USER17> They make it pretty clear that I need to get approval to do anything code- related outside of work. I had to go through a ton of forms to get permission to teach coding at a public library here.

That said, you're not wrong; I probably could harass someone to be allowed to blog, but after being declined twice from contributing to open source (both taking around 4-5 hours of talking to legal teams and managers), I'm just a bit burnt out from the experiences.

I should probably find another job once a bit more stock vests.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> "Learning with intention" sounds like a reworded way of saying "deliberate practice" which is something highly motivated people have been doing from time immemorial (one notable example being Ben Franklin's rule of spending one hour per day reading or learning something new). It's excellent legacy advice because it works.

<comment><USER20> Just a small nit pick here--your example does not match the definition of deliberate practice.

In general, deliberate practice is about how you practice (e.g. focused on most useful things; w/ quick expert feedback), rather than how often.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Practice_(learning_method)#Del...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Practice_\(learning_method\)#Deliberate_practice)

[https://hbr.org/2007/07/the-making-of-an-expert](https://hbr.org/2007/07/the- making-of-an-expert)

<comment><USER21> This is my understanding of deliberate practice as well.

Interestingly, The GP mentioned Ben Franklin and Franklin _did_ use deliberate practice to improve his writing:

[https://www.anecdote.com/2010/08/benjamin-franklin- deliberat...](https://www.anecdote.com/2010/08/benjamin-franklin-deliberate- practice/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Really enjoyed reading this, thanks.

While I'm no way near mathematically capable (yet) of understanding the jargon the author uses later on in the post (e.g. "randomized singular value decomposition"), I'm glad he puts links to at least show he's not bluffing.

One quote that stood out to me was this one

> I appreciate that most of my writing is me, like an ant, simply following > someone else's trail.

I think you could apply that to most things in programming/computer science too

</comment><comment><USER23> I deeply appreciate the main concept here, and I've tried several ways to get the benefits of writing.

I have two hangups, one makes blogging hard, and one makes keeping an organized notebook hard. If anyone has some thoughts/philosophy about it, I'm very much interested.

The first hangup for blogging is that I find it very difficult to choose a 'technical background cutoff'. I very much like ELI5 attitudes but the issue (that everyone has to deal with) is choosing which topics not to explore. It's difficult not to wander off on tangent "pre-req" topics not only because I want clear explanations, but also because of my second hangup. I tend to "overthink" things and when you question deeply enough, you always wind up at something too difficult to figure out in a day/week/month. Repeating that 10x times per 'blog post' just doesn't work.

One possible work around that I've gleaned from this discussion is to have blog posts presented as WIPs, and work on them progressively almost like a notebook.

If anyone else has some thoughts on how I might handle these things, I'd very much appreciate it.

</comment><comment><USER24> I don't understand any of the specialized concepts in this blog post but I am no stranger to this:

"Under pressure, my mind, like a cart on a well-worn path, finds the same old ruts. Once again, writing breaks this cycle because it requires more active participation."

Being in medicine, I sat on a paper for over a month because I knew that on the last week I would be able to just jump-start writing in the same way I have done so for the last few years. It is embarrassing to think that in any realm of science there is this autonomic system that just takes over when the deadline draws near and poorly thought and researched concepts full of jargon fill the pages.

</comment><comment><USER25> I've not found it super useful myself.

Maybe I was trying to use it for the wrong things?

It seems like a good way of creating better understanding for yourself, a less good way of building a community. That seems to be best done off-line.

</comment><comment><USER26> Thank you very much for sharing this. This answers a very specific question I've had for awhile now: do I understand what I think I understand?

The answer is: "no."

</comment><comment><USER27> "Writing is Nature's way of showing you how sloppy your thinking is" This is exactly the reason that I have started a blog recently. Before, I have only read the material and got a feeling of understanding while it is far from the truth. When I start writing, I know I can gain a deeper layer of understanding in a way that is not impossible with just reading. Really appreciate this.

</comment><comment><USER28> Wow, I'm very glad to have discovered your blog as of today. I'm really enjoying your posts and clear writing style. I just read your "Proof of the SVD" blog post. I can tell I am going to learn a lot already. Thanks for putting in so much effort!

</comment><comment><USER29> I don't blog (anymore), but I keep a personal diary and "guides". The diary is to note down various insights and random thoughts. My guides are consolidated learning around a particular topic and key information that I will know I will need to come back and refer to. I make guides for anything, principles of design, languages, frameworks, specific tools, specific websites, books, and games. Some are purely informational, some capture my thinking about something

</comment><comment><USER30> As I was reading this, I had two thoughts:

1\. The author must be young. That's a really small font.

2\. The same could be said for teaching a class. No matter the class, even a basic undergrad class, I always try to work a few new research results (not necessarily my own) into the lectures. Edit: I was specifically referring to "Learning with intention" in this part of my comment.

</comment><comment><USER31> I have been looking for a blogging environment for this kind of topics for some time. So, my question to the author:

What kind of software / tools /styles are behind this blog in the technical sense? I see mathjax, probably some static site generator(?), what else are you using?

<comment><USER32> If I can give my 2 cents, think about how you would like to write and publish, and where do you want to focus. I've tried to use static site generators (mostly Hugo), but in the end, I've realized that I spent way more time making little tweaks to my theme, creating short codes "to help me create content", than actually writing.

Now, I plan on just having a blog to myself, to post what I've been reading, with some highlights/notes, and for that, a free wordpress.com is way better than anything else, as it's very easy to add different types of media/embed content without a worry, and to use their android app to write on the go if I want.

So really, whatever you use, first decide on your ideal workflow, and then find the solutions :)

<comment><AUTHOR> I didn't want to make the post overly long by adding a section on "failure modes," but certainly one of them is: spend a long time building and tweaking a blog rather than writing. I've done this too and work to avoid it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Remarkable stuff Greg - no surprise to see your work on the front page of HN - always inspiring.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks Chris!

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> What are the software/tools to use to write notes/journals? I personally use github.io but it does not seem to be efficient.

</comment><comment> awinter-py getting feedback from people smarter than me is another reason to publish

hearing 'you're wrong' publicly from a world-class expert on my topic is the fastest way to advance my knowledge on a topic -- it's basically free college</comment>