Atlas, the Next Generation [video] - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVlhMGQgDkY <comment><USER2> If people are interested in looking at more cool content on the subject, I recommend you looking at:

\- [http://drc.mit.edu/technology/](http://drc.mit.edu/technology/)

\- [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~cga/drc/](http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~cga/drc/)

\- [https://github.com/RobotLocomotion/drake/wiki](https://github.com/RobotLocomotion/drake/wiki)

\- [http://robots.ihmc.us/humanoid-control- workshop/videos](http://robots.ihmc.us/humanoid-control-workshop/videos)

I attended WPI during 2013-2014, and worked with Atlas. I am very excited and impressed by Boston Dynamics. (And hopefully start working on the field again.)

</comment><comment><USER3> Can someone explain what would be the single greatest challenge (from a research perspective) in making such a robot today? For example, is it:

1\. The sensors?

2\. The actuators?

3\. Coming up with accurate dynamical models?

4\. Solving the models accurately?

5\. Solving the models efficiently?

6\. Making the models robust to inaccuracy/noise?

Yes, I realize all of these are probably hard. What I'm trying to understand is whether the biggest challenge is coming up with e.g. an accurate (possibly nonlinear) dynamical model, or with _solving_ the model (efficiency/accuracy), or with making existing models that are otherwise already completely accurate robust to outside noise, or with the manufacturing aspect (precision), or whatever.

<comment><USER4> Power.

All the other technologies are increasing extremely rapidly but battery technology isn't.

We are at a point where a breakthrough in batteries would have an incredible effect across a huge number of fields.

<comment><USER5> Everything is getting more power efficient though, so you will at least get more computing power for the same amount of Watts.

<comment><USER6> Not everything. The energy required by physics for lifting boxes or driving a car up a hill is pretty much fixed. Better batteries would help with both of those.

<comment><USER4> Electric jets as well.

The energy to raise a fixed mass a certain height isn't going to change.

Not to mention an electric car with a thousand mile range would be huge.

<comment><USER7> It would certainly put a whole new perspective on range anxiety.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Watching that, especially that part starting at 1:23 makes you realize quickly that in about 10 years, 95% of all jobs can be replaced by machines. Scary and interesting at the same time.

<comment><USER9> Does that mean we live in a happy utopia where 95% of the tedious/dangerous work has been taken care of and we instead get to spend our time focusing on what we find inspirational/creative, or do we live in a dystopia where 95% of job opportunities have vanished and we can no longer sustain a consumption based economy.

Maybe those are one and the same.

<comment><USER10> Well when the cars were invented did people start living in a dystopia where the car moguls owned mobility itself or did people just got around much faster and had better lives in general.

<comment><USER11> It was mixed. People got around faster and stuff was cheaper. On the other hand, we got fat and dependent on cars, which is particularly bad for the poor (since cars are inherently expensive), and for kids' independence. That's why you're seeing many metro areas starting to prioritize walking, biking, and transit.

On balance the development of cars was good, obviously, but let's not kid ourselves, the downsides were significant.

<comment><USER12> I'm not sure if it is an established fact that people got fat because cars came along (before cars there were carriages). I'd rather bet that diet is the culprit.

<comment><USER11> Probably both, but I think they've shown at least a correlation between car commute time and obesity.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> It has a great kinematic system. But with all those QR codes scattered around it obviously has little knowledge of its environment. I think this understanding and planning is going to be the big hurdle for Atlas style robots rather than just walking around.

Just look at the number of types of door out there and what it would take for a robot to figure out how to navigate it without having encountered the exact door before. Its going to need to figure out that it is a door. Experiment to find the unlatching mechanism. Figure out if the door swings or slides and in what direction. Then open it without hitting its self and finally make its way through. Then exporting the training data so other robots can learn it as well.

<comment><USER14> The QR codes probably encode behavioral scripts to apply to an object that the robot encounters. So a box with one QR code may mean that the robot should attempt to pick it up even after interruption. A different QR code may mean that the robot should give up if it is interrupted when picking up the box. A different QR code may mean pick up box and move it to self. A QR code next to a door may mean that the robot should exit it automatically when it gets within a certain distance of it.

<comment><USER15> very unlikely. they were probably used for localization. for instance, locating door for egress, or computing a grasp for the box. grasp planning is particularly difficult at the moment.

<comment><USER14> I think it could have dual purposes. There was an earlier segment of the video where the robot was able to find and pick up a box and stack it on a shelf without the presence of the QR codes. There are a lot of clever uses you could put to QR codes as object and environment tagging. It would be effective at encoding what to do and perhaps what can be done with the box. I used a similar strategy to define behavior scripts for the Aldebaran NAO. I printed out some barcodes and taped them to the walls so that if the NAO was exploring an area and saw certain barcodes on the walls, it would do different things based on the codes that were present. This way, I could do simple behavior scripting without having to change the robot's programming.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I half expected the video camera to turn around and show the audience that all of the footage was shot by an Atlas model. Maybe that could be a stretch goal for the next generation after Atlas.

<comment><USER17> Do you work on Wall Street? When I watched this video, I definitely wasn't thinking about stretch goals and what they DIDN'T yet manage to do :P

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Watching the video, the only thing I see is robot abuse. #freeatlas!

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_P- zl8QKp0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_P-zl8QKp0)

<comment><USER19> Yes, that's kind of weird this empathy we feel toward these robots.

It's just a machine, yet it's so... human.

<comment><USER20> A human is a machine.

<comment><USER21> Have you played The Talos Principle?

<comment><USER22> Or, perhaps better yet, Soma: [http://store.steampowered.com/app/282140/](http://store.steampowered.com/app/282140/)

<comment><USER21> SOMA was great too, that ending!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> When the robots become self aware that guy from 1:25 has it coming.

<comment><USER24> I know this is (maybe?) a joke, but I've been seeing similar jokes everywhere. Self-aware AIs in the future will probably be much more rational that humans, utilizing game theory for every decision, and recognize that taking out vengeance on a human that had no ill intent on a non-self aware prototype would be a waste of energy and only bring about negative consequences.

I'm replying in seriousness because I too could imagine a world where this video was marked as a historical artifact by AGIs and recognized for its content.

<comment><USER25> Did you read "strategy of conflict"? It explains why irrational behaviour is the most optimal strategy sometimes.

<comment><USER24> I haven't read it, but from a quick glimpse on Amazon, it looks to be a book on game theory. Wouldn't a theory on strategy imply rational decision making? Could you expound on what you are referring to?

<comment><USER25> The strategy of conflict broadly extends the game theory. It includes discussion of situations in which irrationality makes sense, and so on.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Does anyone known if it's walking using zero moment point like asimo? I thought they were beyond that?

It doesn't seem to have a very natural gait. Very uncanny valley.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_moment_point](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_moment_point)

<comment><USER27> Short answer: No, ZMP is still the name of the game +-. [0]

Slightly longer answer: No, they use derivative approaches that are basically ZMP but generally more refined/modernized, which is not to say ZMP/related are good or the 'future'. [1]

Source: [0] I can try and find some non-paywall PDF's that go over the field, but basically everyone uses ZMP except for a few research groups in Korea or UMich and groups using their design/model.

[1] I work in the industry.

<comment><USER26> This is awesome. Thanks! I kind of figured they'd apply the algorithms behind big dog et al to bipedal. But I guess bipedal is completely different.

What do you think it would take for robots to walk in a similar way to humans?

<comment><USER27> Great question.

Disclaimer: I don't work with these types of bipeds. I work on powered exoskeletons for paralyzed type people. I would google that phrase to get an idea, but what you'll find is not close to what i'm working on (Read: Wink wink). That being said, the fields overlap very heavily, probably too heavily given the necessary differences, so I do have a fairly rigorous (rusty, at this point) understanding of the topic.

You are right in a way; big dog et al (depending on specific bot/type) share alot of software features with biped robots, but not the type that deal with gait control. The difference is found primarily in gait-control/kinematics, as determined by the necessarily complex nature behind bipedal mechanics.

The future of robotics sort of already exists amongst us, at the very least in the public research domain. The fundamental issue with biped robots right now, as i see it, is:

1) Biped robots are almost universally 'human' inspired

2) Humans are theoretically fully optimized bipeds, copying them is logical and probably an unbeatable 'design'

3) Designers try to copy the human form, but either focus too heavily on ZMP influence or too much on a 'Terminator' level robustness (Heavy, rigid, and impossible).

4) The robot is produced, and because ZMP is very predictable/safe, it walks; but it is not 'human' form or very good at achieving it's design goals because its goals were modeled after the ideal biped, and this is a very bad imitation.

5) Designers say: Hey, spec sheet checks out, FEA says this is strong, problem must be bad software [ZMP]. Software guys say: This software [ZMP] can be improved. The designers are right, the software guys are right, but ZMP is wrong, and because of that, design is bad, etc...

So to really get a true, true biped robot, you really, really need A) Control theory that isn't backwards [literally] and B) A really, really 'human-like' (musculoskeletal) design.

A and B are both really difficult because both are massively challenging, and they have to work together perfectly. So you need a solution that is really creative, really beautiful and elegant and lightweight, and probably most difficult, you need to have people that know how to turn that kind of framework from theory to iterative simulation to real world etc etc.

ZMP is the only real game rn because it was first and etc [sunken cost fallacy and myopia, i think]. All other approaches are neglected fully, regretably (not many other approaches either).

Jumping back to how I see it, I think bipeds will only improve superficially till ZMP is killed or hybridized effectively, which doesn't mean A and B has to occur. Their are just too many fundamental limitations to the theory for bipeds using it to become ubiquitous, or even used beyond research/darpa- fairs.

I also think that my research/focus is more complex than robotic bipeds, and it'd be really worthless waste of my time if it was at the current or slightly above 'state-of-the-art', but this is absolutely the best way I can spend my life right now.

This whole industry [true 'wearables' and robotica] is like a giant powderkeg, and it's going to blow up way bigger and sooner than any thought possible [imo, so take with a grain of salt, but facts afford a potentially representative state of things to be].

I've also just realized i've forgotten to explain zmp/gait and many other things, but i feel that the write up stands on its own.

<comment><USER28> Genuinely curious: could you chance a guess as to why they _chose_ bipedal over quadrupedal?

I don't know much about the field, but mechanically quadrupedals simply make more sense - a lower center of gravity combined with more opportunities (in the form of more legs) to correct blunders.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> I found it interesting how lots of the top comments on YouTube (ie: a wider generalist audience) were concerned about robot abuse and the robot uprising. We may scoff, but it's a real concern of lay people.

<comment><USER30> Isn't it just everyone trying to be funny with the same joke they believe will be original, but actually is every second comment? Happens a lot on Youtube. Surprised it's happening here too.

But if there really is a genuine wave of care about the robot welfare sweeping the intertubes, then perhaps we need some ethics drawn up for when the robots have feelings.

BTW, apparently fish do have feelings after all:

[http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/282/1819/2015...](http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/282/1819/20152266)

<comment><USER31> I think it's even simpler than that. They don't even expect it to be an original joke. This is just the skynet meme. Memes like this get repeated ad infinitum in comment sections like youtube's. People recognize some pattern (e.g. robot abuse), pull out the most appropriate meme from their meme basket, see it also being pulled out by others, and have a sense of belonging & social reinforcement.

<comment><USER30> That's a kinder assessment. I'm not so sure though. I think many people don't read others' comments and cruise in, watch video, and bust out their joke, not noticing it already exists in various forms in previous comments.

Unlike offering a general opinion, viewpoint or judgement, we prefer our one- liner jokes to be unique.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> That is super impressive. The video of the robot walking around in the snow, and multiple times almost falling over but righting itself, exactly how a human would...

</comment><comment><USER33> Why do they always gotta smack around the robots like that :(

<comment><USER34> Not gonna lie - kinda felt bad for it.

<comment><USER9> I imagine videos like these being used in future trials to show humans torturing robots.

<comment><USER35> > _I imagine videos like these being used in future trials to show humans > torturing robots._

The proceedings may resemble this:

[https://i.imgur.com/1m1OPlb.png](https://i.imgur.com/1m1OPlb.png)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> They don't seem to be using end-to-end deep reinforcement learning. I think the robot movements will become smooth and organic once they replace the current specialized approach with more general algorithms.

Robotics is a core application of reinforcement learning as it deals with an embedded agent in a feedback look with the exterior. That's why DeepBrain chose games to test their algorithm, because in a game the player is embedded in an artificial world which is much easier to use in the trial and error learning phase. Logically, after mastering Atari games, at some point they should focus on robots that function in the real world. It helps that Deep Brain and Boston Dynamics are owned by the same company.

</comment><comment><USER37> Note the quiet compared to Big Dog... you can hear birds sing in the background. That's a big deal. Their 4-legged pack mule for DoD was killed partly due to noise.

Enjoy the silence..?

<comment><USER38> as best i recall, big dog was meant to be a long distance, possibly autonomous, pack mule for places and missions where a manned vehicle was not an option.

i suspect that this robot have a operating time of maybe an hour before the battery pack needs to be swapped.

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> Pretty impressive. Seems like a non-stiff torso could help a bit. I'm sure they are investigating that option/have tried it.

Hockey stick guy genuinely made me laugh. They should call this the hockey stick test (once again very impressive).

Not sure what impresses me more overall the walking on non trivial terrain in the beginning or the adaption to the "hockey attack". The video certainly makes me want to work in robotics. Haas Bioroid is here ;)

</comment><comment><USER40> Very awesome, each generation is just so much better.

I wish they had shown it climbing those stairs though! :)

</comment><comment><USER41> As I've watched these videos over the years, it's been impossible, especially now, for me to not see how these and other such robots will replace and eventually extinct all humans.

In theory, a family of 4 humans could run a global economy run by robots and no humans. That's a sort of ridiculous, maximal state, but what makes any of us think that, given a continuum from the current state to that maximal state, we won't be somewhere closer to that state in 30 years, especially when considering the unreasonably effectiveness of rent seeking on technology- driven monopolies (e.g., Amazon)?

</comment><comment><USER42> Anyone read "The Industries of the Future" by Alec Ross? He talks about the technologies of the future, the technologies who will become an integral part of our lives in the next 20 years.

The first episode in the book is about robotics. I really urge everyone to read that book.

This Boston Dynamics video gives me serious Terminator vibes. In reality, from an Economics stand point, I'm really curious and afraid to discover how will this affect the lives of millions and millions of workers world-wide who will lose their jobs to Robot. How can they stand at the right side of a technology revolution they know nothing about?

What do you think?

<comment><USER43> A related article about Dr Moshe Vardi and his controversial view that governments and societies around the world may have to consider a "basic income guarantee"

[http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and- tech/new...](http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and- tech/news/basic-income-artificial-intelligence-ai-robots-automation-moshe- vardi-a6884086.html)

</comment></comment><comment><USER44> What percentage of the body weight is batteries? HOw long can it operate ?

</comment><comment><USER45> On thing you can already bet on is that in 20 years that guy is going to wake up in the middle of the night to find a T1000 with a hockey stick in it's hands and a grin on it's facial expression monitor pointing at a box and say "would you kindly; pick it up?". Later his tomb stone will say "Don't be a dick to robots".

</comment><comment><USER46> It's funny how this video is what everyone in IT thinks work will be like before they get their first job. Meanwhile, this is what work is actually like at every IT job:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIIWX80KBUE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIIWX80KBUE)

</comment><comment><USER47> For those not wanting to watch a video, Atlas appears to be a humanoid robot: [http://www.engadget.com/2016/02/23/boston-dynamics- presents-...](http://www.engadget.com/2016/02/23/boston-dynamics-presents-the- next-generation-atlas-robot/)

</comment><comment><USER48> What's crazy to me is that there's something "organic" enough about the way these machines are behaving, that I actually feel bad for the robot when the guy knocks over the boxes.

I think I wouldn't feel that bad if this were a self-driving forklift.

And it's not even an uncanny valley thing, or maybe it is?

</comment><comment><USER49> As a futurologist I don't like this one bit. Seriously, I feel like this company will destroy us all.

</comment><comment><USER19> It's not the Terminator T-800 yet, still it's impressing. :-)))

</comment><comment><USER50> Does anyone else start to think of Blinky[1] when the guy starts pushing around the robot?

[1] [http://youtu.be/P0lKDy6E918](http://youtu.be/P0lKDy6E918)

</comment><comment><USER51> Atlas is not alone: [http://www.theroboticschallenge.org/teams](http://www.theroboticschallenge.org/teams)

</comment><comment><USER52> Impressive. They seem to have reduced how much noise it makes during normal operation. Does anybody know how long will the battery last on the current version?

</comment><comment><USER53> #robotsarepeopletoo #botrights

</comment><comment><USER54> I empathized when the robot faceplanted...

</comment><comment><USER55> Does someone know if they are using ROS?

</comment><comment><USER10> It doesn't have the grace of an actual human.

Its solution to any problem seems to be more stomping.

</comment><comment><USER56> Although a great incremental update, is the new Atlas any better than Asimo?

</comment><comment><USER57> it can use a shiny Bender skin :) hope some Futurama fans are working there

<comment><USER58> The 600 series had rubber skin. We spotted them easy.

</comment></comment><comment><USER59> that's terrifying!

</comment><comment><USER60> Player Piano, the first novel of Kurt Vonnegut, was published in 1952. It depicts a dystopia of automation, describing the deterioration it can cause to quality of life. The story takes place in a near-future society that is almost totally mechanized, eliminating the need for human laborers. This widespread mechanization creates conflict between the wealthy upper class—the engineers and managers who keep society running—and the lower class, whose skills and purpose in society have been replaced by machines. The book uses irony and sentimentality, which were to become hallmarks developed further in Vonnegut's later works.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_Piano_(novel)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_Piano_\(novel\))

</comment><comment><USER61> and then they will put a weapon on it

</comment><comment><USER62> Poor robot, #abusedinboston

</comment><comment><USER63> Am I the only one that saw this and got excited thinking it was a video of FB's new ad platform?</comment>


Ask HN: Is it possible to spawn docker instances from a Node.js app? - <AUTHOR> Hey,
n.b - I have no prior experience in working with docker.
My question is, I want to create an internal company nodejs app that can spawn instances of a docker image dynamically. Ideally a user will navigate to the app, click the environment they want to create. The app will spin up the docker image and provide a link to the running image, which will be a website of some kind.
- Is this possible with docker?
- Is docker the right tool for this job?
- Are there any solutions that do this already?
Thanks. <comment><USER2> Yes, like jonmurdoch mentioned, calling shell commands from your node application will work.

However, the Docker CLI is really only a CLI and has no magic in it. If I remember correctly, it even talks HTTP to the docker server (please don't take that at face value).

In that case it should be possible to talk directly to docker through HTTP calls.

...indeed, a quick search about "nodejs docker client" gives you a few options, one of which is [https://github.com/apocas/dockerode](https://github.com/apocas/dockerode).

<comment><AUTHOR> ahh.. awesome, this library looks to have everything I could need. Thank you.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I'm guessing the easiest way is to just shell out to the docker run command.</comment>


EU taking another look at phone chargers because they're still not standardized - <AUTHOR> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/08/eu-taking-another-look-at-phone-chargers-because-theyre-still-not-standardized/ <comment><USER2> As much as lightening is annoying, one can argue that Apple's connectors have pushed the industry forward. From introducing connectors that can be plugged in any way, to creating consumer expectation that one wire can do video, audio, power, and data.

Would USB-3 be as good (and/or confusing) as it is if it wasn't for the history of Apple iPhone connectors?

</comment><comment><USER3> How pedantic would it to argue a difference between standards like USB and _mandates_ in discussions like these?

I've seen a worrying conflation between the two in online discussions about this topic for the past day or so. Negative takes towards this are met with at least one "without standards we would have a thousand different chargers, remember what it was like in 2000?"?

Am I off base here? This _will_ come across as a concern troll but I'm genuinely curious about other views on this.

<comment><USER4> Without standards we _would_ still have a thousand different chargers. There is no incentive for manufacturers to standardise on any charging standard. That includes USB. Before the mandate on phone chargers I owned a phone that would allow file transfer over USB but _not_ charging. Charging using a proprietary charger with a proprietary connector.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> This is not a problem worthy of legislation. It is a minor inconvenience. We have both Android and iOS devices, it just requires a few extra cables, which is already becoming less of an issue since most of our devices are wireless charging compatible.

It's annoying that the apple charger is different, but at least it really is a superior connector in every way except compatibility.

<comment><USER4> > This is not a problem worthy of legislation.

Yes it is. Don't you remember the state of things _before_ the EU decided to make law on phone chargers? Literally every model of phone had a unique charging plug, you could pretty much never borrow someones charger.

<comment><USER5> I don't borrow anyone's charger now. But even if I did, not worthy of legislation. Not a real problem.

<comment><USER4> Maybe not to you, but please don't dismiss people for who it _is_ a problem worth solving.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Evernote hacked - <AUTHOR> http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2013/03/02/security-notice-service-wide-password-reset/ <comment><USER2> I'm kind of annoyed they didn't send an email, just flagged my password. So I couldn't use the iphone/mac apps and had to login via the web interface to reset. Which I didn't know because they didn't send an email, just got an invalid password error.

Their lack of encryption and lack of 2 factor auth just became a much bigger issue for me...

<comment><USER3> Seriously, who doesn't do 2fa for something like this in 2013? Or 2012, or even 2011?

<comment><USER4> Apple, Microsoft, Yahoo (at least non-US), etc. ...

I'm not sure if there are any bookmark services that actually support this, though it'd be a decent selling point.

It was a big deal, when Google finally assed themselves to implement it for Gmail, but companies have been embarrassingly slow in following their example. _Especially_ when they provide e-mail services.

Twitter hired TFA specialists a few months back, but they are taking their sweet time about implementing the system. I've wondered for a long time why social networks aren't on top of implementing this.

It's the SSL discussion all over again.

<comment><USER3> Google Chrome does bookmark sync using user-provided passphrase, so I'd consider that bookmark service with client side crypto and 2fa.

Crappy consumer services not supporting 2fa is somewhat understandable. No one uses Apple or Yahoo web services for business. People do seem to use Evernote in business contexts. Google Apps for your Domain is a fairly legitimate business option, as is Google Docs.

<comment><USER4> Right, forgot Chrome. I only thought of Opera, when it comes to browser-backed bookmark sync - at least on paper, since it doesn't work at all for me.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> I've never really understood the security model for Evernote. It's "an exocortex" -- your personal notes, which are likely to be more security sensitive than general documents, email, etc. And yet they have even less security than Dropbox, themselves not exactly an exemplar of robust security.

They've got competent people operating the service; it's just not well designed for security.

<comment><USER5> Yeah, Evernote really should have been zero-knowledge end-to-end encrypted.

Recently <https://crypton.io/> was released and my hope is that lots of new SaaS offerings will use it and that this will in the end force even the big names (Dropbox, 37signals, etc) to adopt real security.

<comment><USER6> I'm not a technical person, but how would they be able to search and index the items if everything is encrypted?

<comment><USER5> They wouldn't be able to do this on the server side. However their native iOS, Mac, Windows clients could just create&update the search index locally and sync the encrypted version. With HTML5 localStorage this also works in Web Apps.

Of course there's a tradeoff, but for me that's easily worth it.

<comment><USER7> The "tradeoff" seems to be "make the server into a dumb store for encrypted data." At which point, you don't have Evernote (an API for fuzzy-matching clippings punted into it from various devices), you have Evernote (a set of fat client programs each of which must maintain an entire copy of the dataset --notably, _stored necessarily alongside its own decryption key on the client side, increasing attack surface_ \--and do manual synchronization) plus a POSS (Plain Old Storage Service, like S3.) The resultant workflow sounds like it would have more in common with several people trying to edit the same Word document over SMB, than with making web requests.

[EDIT: clarity about client-side encryption]

<comment><USER5>
      The "tradeoff" seems to be "make the server into a
      dumb store for encrypted data." At which point, you
      don't have Evernote (an API for fuzzy-matching
      clippings punted into it from various devices),
      you have Evernote (a set of fat client programs)
      plus a POSS (Plain Old Storage Service, like S3.)
      In fact, the workflow sounds like it would have more
      in common with editing a Word document over SMB than
      with making web requests.

Not at all. Fuzzy-matching can be done client side just as well as server- side. The constraints are a bit different, but not too much (E.g. on the server-side: Make it scale --> conserve CPU, on the (mobile) client-side: Make it fast --> conserve CPU)

Otherwise, yeah most Web Apps are nothing more than editing stuff over the network and visualizing it differently.

The #1 competitor or a SaaS isn't some other SaaS but rather Word/Excel: [http://www.startupcfo.ca/2011/05/the-1-competitor-for- saas-v...](http://www.startupcfo.ca/2011/05/the-1-competitor-for-saas- vendors/)

Edit: Also there's no reason to believe the client-side store wouldn't be encrypted. That'd be exceedingly stupid.

<comment><USER7> I don't think you got quite what I'm trying to say--the whole point of Evernote is that all your data is "there", and the collated index for finding this or that is "there", and so any individual piece of data doesn't need to be on this device or that device. When you insert a new piece of data, all you need is that piece of data. You send it off to Evernote, and they stick it into your database. Then, later--still without any local state--you search the server to find out if anything you've sent in matches some arbitrarily-complex query--and if there are results, _then_ you temporarily download [the newest version of] them from the server. The collation itself--not the storage, not the UX, but the ability to immediately put something into device X and then find it using device Y--is what you're paying them for.

Without that, what you have is a OneNote notebook stored in your Dropbox.

> Edit: Also there's no reason to believe the client-side store wouldn't be > encrypted. That'd be exceedingly stupid.

It's encrypted with a key that's stored _on_ the client, which is the same as the server being encrypted with a key stored on the server: effectively about as secure as DRM (i.e. not.)

To put it another way: presuming you have a motive to gain access to _just my data_ \--with this hypothetical service, if you steal my phone, you have my data, _and_ the key to decrypt it. Or if you steal my laptop, or my desktop, or any other device the service is synced to. Or if you hack into them. All you need after that is the passphrase I (hopefully) set to unlock my encryption key--and for a single target, social engineering (or lead-pipe cryptanalysis) can get that right quick.

Meanwhile, there is only one thing people can do to steal my Evernote data: hack into _Evernote's_ servers. If you just want _my_ data, that's a whole lot more effort than it's worth, compared to just palming my phone.

[Now, if you want a _bunch of random people's data_ , this is where using passphrase-locked + per-account-salted encryption-keys server-side is actually relevant to security. If it takes O(N) time to crack N accounts, there's much less incentive to do it than if it's O(1).]

<comment><USER8> Nonsense.

If your imaginary attacker can social engineer your local encryption password out of you, he can just as well engineer your Evernote password out of you. There is no difference.

The real issue is that today someone who hacks the Evernote servers will gain access to _all_ users notes. With end-to-end encryption they'd have to target each user individually.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> That's why I don't use any fancy services for my notes, which usually contains sensitive data. I simply use Notational Velocity which encrypts my notes and stores it locally. It does provide a synchronization option with SimpleNote but they can't even be bothered with using SSL.

<comment><USER10> amen to that. I stopped using evernote awhile ago because of this and once I started using NV I never looked back. Clearly they don't take security seriously enough, which is a shame for those who don't know any better.

<comment><USER11> NV?

<comment><USER12> Notational Velocity :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> _we have found no evidence_ == "we really don't know"

Sorry, I'm sure the Evernote tech team is competent, but clearly some marketing spin has been put on this announcement.

<comment><USER8> _Sorry, I'm sure the Evernote tech team is competent_

What exactly leads you to this assumption?

They designed a service that stores sensitive user-data in an _obviously_ insecure fashion (no end-to-end encryption).

If that's not incompetence then the only other explanation would be criminal negligence?

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> I managed to reset my password to the same that it was before. I changed it again right away of course, but there should definitely be some protection against that.

(FWIW I didn't get the email so I was simply locked out and used their "forget password" form instead of trying to log in, which may have a different reset process).

<comment><USER15> This morning I tried to use the same password and it wouldn't let me, so maybe they fixed this issue.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Service currently unavailable. Here is their latest tweet:

        Important: Evernote just implemented a service-wide
        password reset. Please read our post for details and
        instructions

Said post is unavailable by the look of it.

Can someone post a paste of the blog post in here?

<comment><USER16> They aren't down (anymore), but in case you are still unable to read it:

\-----

Evernote's Operations & Security team has discovered and blocked suspicious activity on the Evernote network that appears to have been a coordinated attempt to access secure areas of the Evernote Service.

As a precaution to protect your data, we have decided to implement a password reset. Please read below for details and instructions.

In our security investigation, we have found no evidence that any of the content you store in Evernote was accessed, changed or lost. We also have no evidence that any payment information for Evernote Premium or Evernote Business customers was accessed.

The investigation has shown, however, that the individual(s) responsible were able to gain access to Evernote user information, which includes usernames, email addresses associated with Evernote accounts and encrypted passwords. Even though this information was accessed, the passwords stored by Evernote are protected by one-way encryption. (In technical terms, they are hashed and salted.)

While our password encryption measures are robust, we are taking additional steps to ensure that your personal data remains secure. This means that, in an abundance of caution, we are requiring all users to reset their Evernote account passwords. Please create a new password by signing into your account on evernote.com.

After signing in, you will be prompted to enter your new password. Once you have reset your password on evernote.com, you will need to enter this new password in other Evernote apps that you use. We are also releasing updates to several of our apps to make the password change process easier, so please check for updates over the next several hours.

As recent events with other large services have demonstrated, this type of activity is becoming more common. We take our responsibility to keep your data safe very seriously, and we're constantly enhancing the security of our service infrastructure to protect Evernote and your content.

There are also several important steps that you can take to ensure that your data on any site, including Evernote, is secure:

Avoid using simple passwords based on dictionary words Never use the same password on multiple sites or services Never click on 'reset password' requests in emails — instead go directly to the service Thank you for taking the time to read this. We apologize for the annoyance of having to change your password, but, ultimately, we believe this simple step will result in a more secure Evernote experience. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact Evernote Support.

The Evernote team

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> I find evernote tremendously helpful and I pay the $5 per month for a premium service, REGARDLESS, a google of [https://www.google.com/search?q=evernote+two+step+authentica...](https://www.google.com/search?q=evernote+two+step+authentication) says little good about how Evernote respects me or their many many other customers whom have repeatedly asked for two factor authentication.

</comment><comment><USER8> Let me be the first to say: HA-HA! </nelson>

Over the past few years I've told everyone to refrain from using Evernote. I told them that Evernote doesn't use end-to-end encryption and that eventually _this_ would happen.

Hardly anyone would listen ("You're just paranoid", "I don't store anything private in there anyway, except.. oh").

For once I take cruel pleasure in being "that guy". The general public needs to learn this lesson.

</comment><comment><USER18> I note that when Twitter released their breach notice on a Friday afternoon there were comments accusing them of trying to "bury" the news:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5154502>

While there are (so far) no such comments about Evernote releasing this stuff on a Saturday morning. I think security breaches are just discovered at inconvenient times.

</comment><comment><USER19> In the post, they say:

"The investigation has shown, however, that the individual(s) responsible were able to gain access to Evernote user information, which includes usernames, email addresses associated with Evernote accounts and encrypted passwords. Even though this information was accessed, the passwords stored by Evernote are protected by one-way encryption. (In technical terms, they are hashed and salted.)

While our password encryption measures are robust, we are taking additional steps to ensure that your personal data remains secure. This means that, in an abundance of caution, we are requiring all users to reset their Evernote account passwords. Please create a new password by signing into your account on evernote.com."

What it _doesn't_ say is how the passwords were dumped in the first place, or what they're going to do to ensure it doesn't happen again (outside of taking "additional steps"). I understand that not all users of Evernote are technical, but I'd like some peace of mind that a similar thing is less likely to happen in the future.

</comment><comment><USER20> The following blog post is also being sent to all Evernote users as an email communication.

Evernote's Operations & Security team has discovered and blocked suspicious activity on the Evernote network that appears to have been a coordinated attempt to access secure areas of the Evernote Service.

As a precaution to protect your data, we have decided to implement a password reset. Please read below for details and instructions.

In our security investigation, we have found no evidence that any of the content you store in Evernote was accessed, changed or lost. We also have no evidence that any payment information for Evernote Premium or Evernote Business customers was accessed.

The investigation has shown, however, that the individual(s) responsible were able to gain access to Evernote user information, which includes usernames, email addresses associated with Evernote accounts and encrypted passwords. Even though this information was accessed, the passwords stored by Evernote are protected by one-way encryption. (In technical terms, they are hashed and salted.(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_(cryptography)> ))

While our password encryption measures are robust, we are taking additional steps to ensure that your personal data remains secure. This means that, in an abundance of caution, we are requiring all users to reset their Evernote account passwords. Please create a new password by signing into your account on evernote.com(<https://www.evernote.com/Login.action>).

After signing in, you will be prompted to enter your new password. Once you have reset your password on evernote.com, you will need to enter this new password in other Evernote apps that you use. We are also releasing updates to several of our apps to make the password change process easier, so please check for updates over the next several hours.

As recent events with other large services have demonstrated, this type of activity is becoming more common. We take our responsibility to keep your data safe very seriously, and we're constantly enhancing the security of our service infrastructure to protect Evernote and your content.

There are also several important steps that you can take to ensure that your data on any site, including Evernote, is secure:

Avoid using simple passwords based on dictionary words Never use the same password on multiple sites or services Never click on 'reset password' requests in emails — instead go directly to the service Thank you for taking the time to read this. We apologize for the annoyance of having to change your password, but, ultimately, we believe this simple step will result in a more secure Evernote experience. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact Evernote Support(<http://evernote.com/support>).

The Evernote team

<comment><USER21> _Even though this information was accessed, the passwords stored by Evernote are protected by one-way encryption. (In technical terms, they are hashed and salted.(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_(cryptography)> ))_

That's great. But to really reassure people they would do best to reveal the algorithm. After all, DES-based password hashes are both 'hashed and salted' but are easily broken with JtR.

<comment><USER22> Curious, if the attacker knows what the encryption algorithm is, does it help them at all in breaking it? I.e., does it potentially delay breaking it by not revealing it?

<comment><USER20> In theory, yes, in practice it is fairly obvious how something is hashed just by eye. Different hash algorithms produce different output (lengths, starting character, and spread).

So with some experience you can often tell (or guess and test) what something is hashed with.

<comment><USER23> I would say that's not really true. The output hash will look the same if I apply a simple salted SHA-1 with a salt or if I apply 500 MD5's followed up followed up with 200 SHA-1's, each salted differently. I'm not a security expert, but I think this is closer to best practice these days.

That said, revealing the exact algorithm would basically be throwing people with weak passwords to the wolves while really only supplying the rest of us with a false sense of security (because it will probably be cracked anyway).

We'd also be better off if they didn't announce the algorithm if the passwords get leaked (like with LinkedIn).

<comment><USER24> For practice, see if you can't identify the hashing algorithm for the following stored passwords:

        $6$AhHvI8ay$I0ED2wWVU9eheJKvCxzcbc/ZYRoN60q5XNHruYp8yFlQvEOjJ1WtIHUwjG6L4ZGntf3ei8osB7s2GYdkN01gx1
        dGhpcyBpcyBzdHVwaWQKCg==
        286755fad04869ca523320acce0dc6a4
        some_salt:ac01346ad1553221506dd091800a1974
        c8fed00eb2e87f1cee8e90ebbe870c190ac3848c
        6b3a55e0261b0304143f805a24924d0c1c44524821305f31d9277843b8a10f4e
        /5L0cR/wpFqSA

Note how they don't look the same, so it's quite easy for an attacker to tell the difference.

Want to see how you did? Here's the answer key, in base64:

        MTogTW9kZXJuIGNyeXB0LCBsaWtlIHRoZSBraW5kIHlvdSdkIGZpbmQgaW4gL2V0Yy9zaGFkb3cK
        MjogSnVzdCBiYXNlNjRpbmcgdGhlIHJhdyBwYXNzd29yZCAoc3R1cGlkKQozOiBVbnNhbHRlZCBt
        ZDVzdW0KNDogbWQ1c3VtLCB3aXRoIHNhbHQgcHJlcGVuZGVkCjU6IFVuc2FsdGVkIHNoYTFzdW0K
        NjogVW5zYWx0ZWQgc2hhMjU2c3VtCjc6IE9sZCBVTklYIGNyeXB0KCk=

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> > we have found no evidence that any of the content you store in Evernote was > accessed

This depends on how hard they looked - do people believe content wasn't accessed?

Is it fair to ask them for a technical post about why they don't think content was hacked? I'd love to know how they separate auth from content, and how they ensure that a hacked auth node can't view notes

</comment><comment><USER26> "Please create a new password by signing into your account on evernote.com(<https://www.evernote.com/Login.action>). After signing in, you will be prompted to enter your new password."

Why couldn't an attacker do that at this point?

</comment><comment><USER27> Blog was down. Google cache of blog post: [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2013/03/02/security- notice-service-wide-password-reset/)

</comment><comment><USER28> Frustrating, I thought they would have done security better than most given the type of information stored here.

Does anyone know a decent password keeper? I have a list of logins/passwords for my key sites in a word .doc file stored locally, but given I have a work mac, home mac, tablet and iPhone it really is a pain to access the locally stored file.

I thought about saving this file on google drive, but their 2-factor auth doesn't seem to apply for drive (only gmail).

How do others do this - is there a way to store an encrypted file somewhere online, then typing in a known password to unencrypt / open it when I need to access it?

<comment><USER29> LastPass offers everything that you're mentioning, plus 2-factor auth that integrates with the Google Authenticator app if you want. It's free if you use it on desktop with browser extensions, but costs $1/month for mobile. I would highly recommend checking it out.

www.lastpass.com

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> whew, i was shocked when my evernote client asked me to enter my password because i did not recieve the e-mail. It seems like this was a precautious step as nothing was 'really' hacked, or was it?

<comment><AUTHOR> Their blog is down now, but they did say that attacker had access to usernames and encrypted password but _nothing_ else.

<comment><USER31> So the content within the accounts was safe then?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> i didn't get the email, and my original password still works, it just took me directly to change password screen.

i guess they're counting on compromised passwords not being used individually to create new ones?

<comment><USER32> according to bbc "It said user names, email addresses and encrypted passwords were accessed"

so i guess since passwords were encrypted they weren't fully compromised and a simple change should be enough.. at least that's what Evernote appears to think.

<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21644317>

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> Any suggestions of migration paths to more security conscious alternatives?

I'd even be happy with an encrypted disk image on Dropbox if there's a good way to OCR scanned docs, then be able to search them.

<comment><USER34> (Disclosure, I work for nCrypted Cloud)

Since you ask and since you appear to be a Dropbox user looking for more security, check out www.ncryptedcloud.com It is a Privacy, Security and Collaboration app that layers on top of dropbox (Skydrive and Googledrive soon)

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> Good they're being proactive here, but two things:

1) I'm sick of going through this password reset crap every month or so. Please lets get rid of passwords.

2) Could Evernote please look at some sort of oauth based signin for mobile devices? I have to enter this unique and very long password multiple times on _every device I own_.

It'd be nice if my linked phone and tablet didn't need me to use the same login system as a human.

</comment><comment><USER36> I filed a ticket this morning after I was unable to login to the Mac client. Here's their response:

"Dear Valued Customer,

We're truly sorry for the inconvenience this has caused you this morning. We are attempting to contact our entire userbase about this matter, but we feel that immediate action in these cases is the most prudent course."

The rest of the email contained the contents of their blog post.

</comment><comment><USER37> Funny enough, logging in to Evernote was the first thing I did after laying in bed spending 1hr+ watching this amazing video about http/https man-in-the- middle attacks using sslstrip <http://www.thoughtcrime.org/software/sslstrip/> . Not a good way to start my morning.

</comment><comment><USER38> They've never really been focused on security in the past. Honestly, I love the service, but their lack of concern about keeping it secure has never sat well with me.

I wrote up a post with some of my security concerns. <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5311010>

</comment><comment><USER39> I got the email and reset my password (web browser on desktop). I then launched the MaxOs client app and it asked me to enter the new password, however the iOS app shows its initial loading screen but then just crashes. It never gets around to asking me for the new password. Anyone know a solution to this?

<comment><USER39> An updated iOS app is available since yesterday. After updating I was able to enter the new password and am back up and running.

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> I'm wondering how they perform the password reset.

Surely, you must know more than the username. But they cannot rely on the old password either, because the whole thing was set off by assuming that the old password is hacked. And they advise their user to ignore instructions per email.

So how do / could they do it?

<comment><USER41> It contradicts their instructions, but I'm assuming using the password-reset received email immediately following my request for this email is the "right" way to do this. I believe the intent of what they warned against were common phishing emails .

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> I didn't get an email (yet) so I visited the Evernote Forum. I was a bit surprised to see that I had to sign in with the same username and password of my Evernote account. It's convenient, but I prefer seperate accounts, especially since they're using third-party forum software.

</comment><comment><USER43> And following the announcement, the blog it's down and emails didn't arrived yet. Well done, Evernote.

</comment><comment><USER44> Anybody considered the zendesk link <http://m.techcrunch.com/2013/01/08/zendesk-evernote-25k/>

Twitter, tumblr, Pinterest hacks are all having zendesk connection

People on Dropbox have issues too

</comment><comment><USER45> I just got an email from "Evernote" with links pointing to <http://links.evernote.mkt5371.com/>

Please, be very careful, people. Of course, this won't reach the people who need to hear it :(

</comment><comment><USER46> For anyone who is as puzzled as I was about how to change the password in the Android app, the answer is you can't change it in the app. (!)

Instead, you have to tap the "authentication failed" notification. Then you can change the password.

<comment><USER47> Yeah apparently they will deploy updated versions of the apps to address that issue though. (It says so at the bottom of the article.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> I finally made the switch to randomly-generated passwords for everything, so for once I can finally not care at all that this happened. It's just a reminder that I need to close my Evernote account.

</comment><comment><USER49> Not cool. I use evernote for throwaway email passwords. And storing some usernames, without passwords. Just to remember usernames.

I wouldn't lose anything, it would be just inconvenient for me.

<comment><USER50> Maybe use a more appropriate tool? That would be your life way easier anyway? LastPass? 1Pass, etc?

</comment></comment><comment><USER51> I don't understand why they don't offer encryption.

<comment><USER20> Encryption on /what/? Point to point or content encryption? Also if your password has been compromised and that same password is used to encrypt your data then what exactly would encryption do?

<comment><USER52> Data encryption with a private key that the _user_ holds. Evernote, like Dropbox, etc. have your crypto keys, and thus will always be subject to hacking and such. If I, and only I, had the keys it would be up to me to keep them safe, and my data would not succumb to a hack of their database, etc.

<comment><USER20> But password resets would quite literally be impossible.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> Why not share more about the hack detail? Is it another attack from China? As a (paid) user, I'm a bit concerned about my data security.

</comment><comment><USER54> And another example of how badly Wordpress scales.

</comment><comment><USER16> I am impressed by how well this is handled. Much better than I've seen from other companies!

</comment><comment><USER55> Anyone know a good Skitch replacement?

<comment><USER56> You can actually download Skitch 1.XX here: <http://update.skitch.com/skitch.html> I have been using it since they completely messed up Skitch with the 2.XX update. It requires absolutely no connection to evernote and works great.</comment></comment>


Elon Musk's determination - <AUTHOR> http://dcurt.is/elon-musks-determination <comment><USER2> Is there some kind of voting ring for all of the blog posts in this style? How is this lame-o piece at #2 on the front page? It seems that the posts with this theme have been on the front page a whole lot lately.

/tinfoil hat

<comment><USER3> I honestly have no idea. I don't do anything to promote Svbtle articles on HN.

I don't think this post is worthy of Hacker News, so I haven't voted for it.

<comment><USER2> (Eek, sorry to call your post lame-o. No offense intended! It's just.. well, you know what I mean. It's a quote from another page and link. But, yes, I see your point.

Again, no diss intended! Sorry!)

<comment><USER4> It is lame-o, and you can say that to his face. It's this comment[1] and other distilled thoughts from the thread, essentially, in blog post form and resubmitted to HN. "Accomplished" just became "determined". PageRank at work, here, folks.

[1]: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4024347>

<comment><USER5> What does PageRank have to do with HN articles?

Also, people write whatever the hell they want on their own site. That's the point. They can't stop people from submitting links here, wanted or not.

In theory, if enough people don't like it, it'll be flagged off.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> This is a clip from a 60 Minutes interview. The amount of passion and determination in this clip, is absolutely breathtaking. <http://youtu.be/H3u0IIQj6FY?t=11m13s>

<comment><USER7> Does anyone else somehow get the idea that Elon Musk never gets tired?

<comment><USER8> He doesn't have time to be tired. He's making electric cars and spaceships.

<comment><USER9> Don't forget that he's also trying to power things with the sun!

A future built by Musk, quite frankly, sounds _awesome_.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> With that kind of determination, he has a great shot at getting into YC.

<comment><USER11> You're joking; right?

<comment><USER10> I certainly am.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> "The master isn't the one who knows all there is to know about a subject, but the one who has made a commitment to practice and improve his knowledge of the art every single day from here on."

<comment><USER13> I respectfully disagree. A master is someone with a deep understanding of a sector but who believes always continues to learn.

Being interested in an industry, starting a company, and thinking that you can then learn about it is a fools game.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Truly an amazing person, living and building on many dreams. I wish I could help.

<comment><USER15> <http://www.spacex.com/careers.php>

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> I made basically the same point yesterday, and used the same interview quote from Elon Musk, in a Google Plus post.</comment>


Ask HN: How do you do personal goal setting? - <AUTHOR> There is often so much to keep track of that I'm overwhelmed, like finances, personal development, work etc.
How do people in the community set vision and goals and what tools do you use to keep track of them?
What strategies exist out there that work well, eg. OKRs etc. <comment><USER2> > what tools do you use to keep track of them

my wife</comment>


Ask HN: What's Better? Generalist or Specialist - <AUTHOR>

<comment><USER2> If you want to build a company, being a generalist beats being a specialist, especially if you're building a business that is just related to technology peripherally (such as healthcare, or education). You need the specialists eventually, but by then you already got market fit and hard stuff is mostly done.

</comment><comment><USER3> A specialist will make more money when in demand. A generalist makes less per job but more frequently.

The best case is a specialist who is desired all the time.

</comment><comment><USER4> What's better, a fork or a spoon?

It depends on what you're eating...

</comment><comment><USER5> Neither. You need both at some point or another.

FourSquare might have had some really awesome generalists build a really awesome site and architect a really cool platform, but ultimately, when they were completely down to a very complicated problem with MongoDB, they had to bring in a specialist.

I consider myself a generalist, in that I can build all parts of an application on a variety of languages, platforms or technologies, but when something really goes awry, or when I need in-depth knowledge of something that I either don't have time or prerequisite skills to learn, I bring in a specialist.

The pros of being a generalist is that it stays fresh, stays exciting. I can keep pace on something by switching gears. If I get stuck on a design element, I can switch to a programming task. Stuck on a programming task, and I can switch to tuning the infrastructure. Etc., etc. For me, it works well.

Sometimes it's hard to justify what exactly it is that I _do_ though, to people who are used to something more easily pigeonholed. I generally just say I'm a "technologist" to non-techs or family, but if I'm chatting with my peers, it can become harder to explain what an "architect" is, or explain my strengths, weaknesses, etc.

It's often also frustrating when you have a problem in front of you, and you can't find the solution. Sometimes the "If only I knew more deeply" creeps in, or I find the answer on StackOverflow and the fix seems like it would have been really easy if I'd spent more time in language x, or whatever.

My brother is a PostgreSQL guy, and knows it REALLY REALLY well, and that's pretty much all he does. He's pretty much a badass specialist and has a substantial rate to match, but he doesn't necessarily always keep busy either.

To me, I feel like maybe it would get boring, but he knows it inside and out, and is quite obviously "the guy to call" when something isn't right. Any DB is certainly enough to take a good long while to master, and you might never get to know it 100%, but it's nice knowing there are people like him that know it that deeply.

The major con of being a specialist is that your skills are tied to the market for whatever it is you specialize in. If Postgres flops, or is replaced by something else, or the world stops fancying it, he's got problems. Of course, the flip side to that is that he's got time. Even if Oracle goes under (or maybe especially if they go under,) there's still a market for Oracle experts for a good while as there are companies still relying on it that can't switch over quickly.

So, TL;DR, The world needs both, and both can be fulfilling to a given person.

<comment><USER6> Beautiful explanation. And to add to this, I would like to add something which isn't really related to tech but relates to the question.

My Dad is a general physician, and hence is a generalist. If you knew how Physicians' function you might know that he is the first person you need to see if and when you have a medical issue. And once he diagnoses the problem he might refer the case to an appropriate specialist.</comment></comment>


Global Manure Map - <AUTHOR> https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/05/global-map-manure-could-help-save-agriculture-we-know-it <comment><USER2> > ...researchers used data on livestock density and calculated the annual > amount of phosphorus excreted by cattle, pigs, chickens, sheep, and goats > globally—as much as a whopping 130,000 kilograms per square kilometer.

356 kg / day / square kilometer. At first that number seems enormous, and then when you think of 356 kg of phosphorus from manure per day in a huge, vast square kilometer, the number actually is credible.

Manure provides on average 15.9 lbs. per ton [0] or 7.2 kg per ton, and therefore you need 356/0.0072 = ~45 tons of manure to produce 356 kg of phosphorus. That's 450kg of manure per day per hectare.

This apparently boric topic has a lot of interesting things in it if you are willing to dive deeper.

[0]: [http://fafdl.org/blog/2018/02/06/can-manure-supply- nitrogen-...](http://fafdl.org/blog/2018/02/06/can-manure-supply-nitrogen- phosphorus/)

</comment><comment><USER3> Didn't imagine India would be the leader in manure. Argentina, Brazil, US, AU, ok... Surprising.</comment>


Google using private iPhone API, unfair? Thoughts? - <AUTHOR> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/26/google_itunes/

<comment><USER2> It's not _private_ API, it's _undocumented_ API. There's a difference.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> There are a few apps on the App Store that clearly break Apple's rule regarding their private API. I feel like this is a bit unfair because the rest of us play by the rules.

<comment><USER3> There's the official rules, and then there's the actual rules. The official rules might say "thou shalt not use these APIs", but the actual rules say "thou shalt not use these APIs unless we've looked at what you're doing and we think it's ok".

I'm sure that Apple knows what Google is doing by now, so as far as the _actual_ rules are concerned, Google isn't doing anything wrong.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> The petulant tattletale attitude in the Mac community is really obnoxious.

</comment><comment><USER5> Not unfair. Chances are you could get away with it too.</comment>


Show HN: Data Cleaning and Wrangling as a Service - <AUTHOR> https://losslesshq.com <comment><AUTHOR> We've built human assisted AI to understand the top 100 most common data transformations so that you never have to google "how to do X in excel" or "how to convert A to B" again. Just upload your data, describe what you want us to do with it in plain English, and we'll email you the results.

We've spent a lot of time transforming data in complicated tools at companies like Google and McKinsey in Python and Excel. We believe transforming data should be as simple as asking for what you want.

We're still in our beta so it's a free service to use!</comment>


US accused of 'piracy' over mask 'confiscation' - <AUTHOR> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-52161995 <comment><USER2> Turkey just did a similar thing to Spain with 150 ventilators.

source: [https://elpais.com/sociedad/2020-04-03/turquia-retiene-un- ca...](https://elpais.com/sociedad/2020-04-03/turquia-retiene-un-cargamento- de-respiradores-para-espana.html)

<comment><USER2> I can't edit my parent post, but Turkey thankfully did let the respirators pass through customs today. Even if they were build in turkey by a turkish company, the sell to Spain was before Turkey implemented the no-medical- export-ban so after some diplomacy calls they let it through I guess (hopefully we can send them back to others in need when they need it)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> This story is a little bit one-sided. If you read right-wing media, you'll get stories one-sided in the other direction.

States in the US had placed orders for masks, in some cases more than a month ago, and have not received them even after having paid for them. They were getting outbid after having a contract in place, and companies (including 3M distributors) weren't honoring orders after higher-grossing orders came in. Florida-bound masks were being diverted to other countries.

A whole bunch of countries had already stopped exports of medical equipment. The US was getting outbid on exports AND couldn't import, so was getting stripped of medical equipment. This was a response.

Was it a thoughtful, reasoned, reasonable response? No. But some sort of rapid response was needed since there was a flood of equipment out of the US.

There are also many disappearing orders in different ports, where shipments apparently just vanish in a poof of smoke. It's not clear who is to blame (but usually everyone assumes it is the US, with no clear evidence).

I'm not sure where this is going, but we're seeing escalation on many different sides. We want a deescalation. I'm not sure how to get to there from here. Without deescalation, these are the sorts of things which tend to escalate to war.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Reposted, as [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22776775](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22776775) by [https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=madaxe_again](https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=madaxe_again) appears to have been killed over a mistaken URL.

</comment><comment><USER4> European governments should respond in kind. The United States must not be allowed to get away with such domineering tactics.

<comment><USER5> Germany was one of the first countries to ban mask exports to the rest of the world, including to other European countries like Italy during the depths of their coronavirus crisis when the healthcare system there was collapsing. They were eventually strong-armed into sharing their masks within the EU, but even that took a long time to convince them to do. This was particularly bad because they're one of the main manufacturers of N95 masks in Europe. In a sense, this is an example of the US responding in kind to something that Europe has already done.

<comment><USER6> For what it's worth, Germany is currently taking patients from Italy[1] and sending ventilators to Spain[2] to help them out. I think it just took some time to go from "scrambling to prepare" to cooperation between EU countries.

[1] [https://dw.com/en/coronavirus-treating-european-patients- in-...](https://dw.com/en/coronavirus-treating-european-patients-in- germany/a-52943695)

[2] [https://www.efe.com/efe/english/portada/berlin-sends- ventila...](https://www.efe.com/efe/english/portada/berlin-sends-ventilators- to-spain-taking-in-patients-from-italy-france/50000260-4212884#)

<comment><USER7> It remains to be seen whether such gestures are just PR though.

<comment><USER8> I think that the French and Italian patients being taken in charge by the German hospital won't give a f __* that it is PR or not. They just want to survive and they sure will remember the german hand. Europe is a land of memory. We will not forget either the US actions.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> A more complete article on this topic: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/03/mask-wars- coro...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/03/mask-wars-coronavirus- outbidding-demand)

<comment><USER9> Still not terribly clear what happened. A journalist would want to talk to the shipper or the buyer of the masks, since 3M is disavowing any knowledge, and the German police just know they did not get their masks.

One thing is interesting: maybe 3M really don't know everything their suppliers are doing right now in China.

 _About 200,000 N95 masks were diverted to the US as they were being transferred between planes in Thailand, according to the Berlin authorities who said they had ordered the masks for the police force._

<comment><USER8> France, Germany, Canada, and even US states/counties had to complain about this "dumping" from the federal US administration and also from american private buyers. The topic is getting inflamatory in Europe.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> France did this to the UK

[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8137039/French- bord...](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8137039/French-border- guards-impound-trucks-filled-130-000-face-masks-bound-Britain.html)

USA did this to France -

US buyers waving wads of cash managed to wrest control of a consignment of masks as it was about to be dispatched from China to one of the worst-hit coronavirus areas of France, according to two French officials.

The masks were on a plane at Shanghai airport that was ready to take off when the US buyers turned up and offered three times what their French counterparts were paying.

[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/02/global- battle-...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/02/global-battle- coronavirus-equipment-masks-tests)

Lots of stories in the new wild west over bits of paper that should cost nothing.

<comment><USER8> Except the French story is pure fake as the masks were all delivered to UK. As Macron passed the law on the ban for mask export, the cops had to block the truck. Then UK and France administrations called each other and the truck was released almost immediatly. Non-story. Daily Mail.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> LOL. I have seen 3 or 4 news about that in HN these last days and I personally submitted 2 more on this topic. Believe it or not, these news did not prompt many reactions from US HN commenters who usually have much to say on any topic :-)

<comment><USER11> It's 8AM EDT. Most HNers aren't even up this early.

Also, with the president's multiple lies per day the media is barely covering it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Old alliances are fragile and will be broken in times of desperation. To throw your allies under the bus like this will not be forgotten.

I hope that one consequence of these and similar action during this crisis will be an end to the global JIT production strategy and spur more decentralized and local production.

Why are we in Europe dependent on a US company with production in the far east, for critical medical supplies?

<comment><USER5> Like every country on the planet, you need far more N95 masks than usual right now, and there is literally not enough manufacturing capacity on the entire planet. Europe and especially Germany banned exports and blocked shipping of existing orders a while back, but because the US hadn't done so yet you could get away with siphoning off the US supply whilst banning them from doing the same to you.

<comment><USER12> Instead of making this another US vs Europe "we did/but they did" slapfight, try reading my post again.

EU countries instituted _export regulations from their own countries_ , they didn't ban exports, they wanted to at least regulate how much left the country.

The US intercepted _already agreed upon shipments_ , by swooping in and offering a much higher payment and strong-arming companies like 3M. The blame lies both with the US government and the manufacturers ignoring existing deals and agreements in favor of cold profit. And the US government also deserves blame for not recognizing the threat earlier, which they are now using as an excuse to screw over the rest of the world. Again.

Another important point is that companies like 3M are US based, adding yet another imbalance of power in this relationship.

However, my main point is why do we accept this fragile global JIT supply chain? We are we relying on essential products having to be shipped across the globe?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> He is handling the problem created by his lack of preparation like he handles his pornstar problems. With money and bullying.

Nevermind that end of February the government still sold off particle respirators and masks to the highest bidder.

The only good news here is that after this is over many other western countries will finally get over the idea that the US is their friend and take a much needed pragmatic approach - especially when it comes to the sourcing of telco equipment.

<comment><USER14> The current administration speaks for the country right now, but doesn't set an eternal policy that determines the United States' thinking towards its partners or erases the decades of strong alliances from the past.

Actually this is the beauty of democracy, eventually we will change this - many of us Americans aren't happy with the way our country is treating our historical friends in Europe and elsewhere. It's important that democracies stay united through this crisis, and especially after this crisis.

There is nothing China and Russia would like more than long term friction in the Free World alliances.

<comment><USER15> I wouldn't bet against Trumps re-election, with his approval ratings going up in the middle of his biggest bungle.

Even if Biden is elected, I have limited hope for him to join us in tackling major issues such as global warming.

I also wouldn't bet on a resurgence of the "decent" GOP in the next decades, i.e. a party that "only" starts some baseless wars and doesn't promote antagonistic thinking in general. They will have noted very clearly what brought them their recent success.

I'm sorry to say, but as a German, I'm seriously wondering whether there is a better chance of establishing a reasonable dialogue with China than to stop you guys from messing stuff up.

<comment><USER16> > I'm seriously wondering whether there is a better chance of establishing a > reasonable dialogue with China than to stop you guys from messing stuff up.

IMHO China is much much worse, ranging from censorship (often over very small issues, like comparing Xi Jinping to Winnie the Pooh resulting in _all_ of Winnie the Pooh being blacklisted), to the massive invasive surveillance state they've got and are expanding, to things like the concentration camps in Xinjiang.

For all the faults in the current US political landscape, it is still vastly better than China.

<comment><USER13> China and the US have a lot in common. Frankly watching the daily deluge of lies from the Trump administration's highest levels - the accusation that China may not be entirely truthful are hilarious

<comment><USER16> I agree there are certain similarities and problems in the US. But mass- censorship, concentration camps, and a true surveillance state on the level of China don't exist in the US. Some, like an expansion of the surveillance state, are plausible (maybe even likely?) in the near-future, whereas I don't see mass-censorship, concentration camps, or appointing the president for life happening any time soon.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Considering that Trump wants to keep manufacturing in the US (big issue during the campaign, no comment on whether this is a good or bad policy), this seems rather unwise in the long run. Basically he's showing that the US is an unreliable partner. I know these are exceptional circumstances, but there may be other exceptional circumstances in a few years time. I would think twice before establishing my manufacturing plants in the US.

<comment><USER17> He is constantly showing Europe that the US is an unreliable partner. I believe after the acute phase of the Corona crisis, US European will have changed forever. Russia and China are sending supplies and medical teams not only to their allies but also to lot's of African and European countries. Whereas the US does the exact opposite. Who do you think will have more influence on the world in the coming years?

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Trumph is proving to be strong leader. It's weird.

<comment><USER19> Strength through underhanded tactics is not strength. He's covering up his incompetence.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Desperate times, desperate measures. Had Trump not done this, the press would pan him for "not using the DPA" instead, like they did last week.

<comment><USER21> If he had actually used the DPA last week this wouldn't have happened. This shipment had already left the US and was in Bangkok.

And if he had used the DPA in January we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place.

<comment><USER20> What would he do that for? If you recall, in January _zero_ people other than the president gave any shit about the virus. We didn't have any cases until something like January 19. 3 days later they formed the working group, and on Jan 31 they closed flights with China (Biden and liberal media called the move "racist"). To remind you at the time everyone was busy with third attempt at "investigation" and impeachment. Invoking DPA would be a bit "interesting" under those circumstances, and the dems would howl that he's "authoritarian", just like they are beginning to howl about it now, when there's end in sight for this. Do I need to show you the headlines and clips from end of January to lengthen your attention span? Pelosi handing out pens and inviting people to Chinatown? DeBlasio telling people to ignore coronavirus? Every single liberal media outlet saying Trump is overreacting and this is no worse than a flu?</comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: Web drum machine using Angular1&2 - <AUTHOR> https://splice.com/sounds/beatmaker/ <comment><AUTHOR> Made using a mix of Angular 1 and 2 + TypeScript and a WebAudio engine we wrote also using TypeScript. It's powered by Splice Sounds library and meant to showcase the service and be a fun web app for desktop and mobile!</comment>


CSV: An Encoding Nightmare - <AUTHOR> https://donatstudios.com/CSV-An-Encoding-Nightmare <comment><USER2> Hence my belief that at the end of the day CSV is actually more considerably more complicated than XML.</comment>


Show HN: Gurgee 2.0 – the first app built for the FIRE movement - <AUTHOR> https://www.gurgee.com/ <comment><USER2> I'd love to try it, but it's apple only. Any plans for an android version? If so, when?

<comment><AUTHOR> This is our #1 request. We are definitely planning on launching an Android version in the next 1-2 months. We were focused on getting the experience just right before launching in another platform. But we believe we're there now.</comment></comment>


Show HN: Chocolate.js, Live Web Ide and Framework - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/jclevy/chocolatejs

<comment><USER2> I'm going to just always flag CoffeeScript libraries that get posted with a .js extention. It is too much effort to put into looking at something only to find out it's not what you thought it was. I don't look at Clojure or Rails posts because I am not interested in them, but somehow I just can't avoid CoffeeScript. So I'm flagging.

<comment><USER3> Gee, that's a bit intolerant, isn't it? Do you similarly flag all Clojure and Rails posts on HN, because you're just not interested?

<comment><USER2> No, because they don't pretend to be something I'm interested in.

<comment><AUTHOR> But would my project Chocolate interest you if its source code was written directly in javascript?

<comment><USER2> Your project is interesting, and you put a great deal of work into it and it is pretty much amazing. I generally don't care about what language an app I use was written in. What has gotten under my skin is the naming of things that are not JavaScript yet still get a .js extension.

I'm actually sorry that all of your hard work is buried under a discussion about the .js extension. I just felt the need to vent as it keeps happening. Your demo is very impressive.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you. Chocolate is the project name, but I had to add something at the end to create a web site and a visible github project. So js was the shortest and closest meaningfull suffix that came to my mind.

<comment><USER2> For what it's worth there's already Chocolat.app which is a text editor for Macs. :/

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I really wish Coffeescript frameworks would stop calling themselves Javascript. Why not Chocolate.coffee instead?

<comment><AUTHOR> You are right. However Javascript is apparent and supported in the Ide and as I use Coffeescript an Javascript as a pair of programming languages, I called it Chocolate.js

<comment><USER2> I would probably dislike CoffeeScript a lot less if I didn't keep running into CoffeeScript examples on *.js libraries. CoffeeScript has made things worse for JavaScript developers, not better, because it's everywhere now and I have even seen libraries written in JavaScript provide only CoffeeScript examples!

Why can't they just be separate languages? Stop mixing them up. You don't see Dart and JavaScript getting mixed up.

<comment><USER3> Because they're not separate languages. CoffeeScript and JavaScript share semantics, making them trivially interoperable (unlike, for example, Dart).

Whether or not a library happens to be written in CoffeeScript is immaterial to your use of it as a JavaScript developer. Now, if the _docs_ aren't good enough because they don't cater to your preferred language reading choices, then that's a legit beef, and it's a documentation deficiency that should be fixed. No need for knee-jerk "dislike".

<comment><USER2> CoffeeScript is like a chameleon, conveniently a language when it serves its proponents in an argument and not when it doesn't.

I propose that CoffeeScript is a language, complete and separate from JavaScript and that people start treating it as such so people who prefer readability over less typing don't have to deal with it if they don't want to.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Seem's interesting, I would like to see more screenshots of the IDE without having to install it.

<comment><USER6> Yup, a short screencast or some screenshots would be great. Seeing as Windows isn't a supported platform (yet?), I can't try it out right now without rebooting and I could use some more convincing...

<comment><AUTHOR> I'll try to prepare a screecast in the following weeks. There is now a demo there: <https://demo.chocolatejs.org/>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Is there a live demo or a screencast or more screenshots?

<comment><AUTHOR> There is now a non writable demo there : <https://demo.chocolatejs.org/>

<comment><USER8> This produces an untrusted site warning in Chrome

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, the Demo site has a self-signed SSL certificate.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


GFI apologizes for false alarm on Samsung keyloggers - <AUTHOR> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9215396/GFI_apologizes_for_false_alarm_on_Samsung_keyloggers?source=rss_news&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+computerworld%2Fnews%2Ffeed+%28Latest+from+Computerworld%29 <comment><USER2> TL;DR - The software that "detected" the keyloggger was wrong, and the company that makes it acknowledged that.

The guy's apology was an actual apology, not spin. That was refreshing.

</comment><comment><USER3> I'm not clicking all these links about this bit of news, but I'm not seeing any headlines about all the other crap OEMs really do put on computers. I was hoping an event like this might get more attention to all that rubbish we don't ever want, and we know what it really does unlike most users.

</comment><comment><USER4> This is actually probably going to be great publicity for Samsung - who even knew they sold workstations and laptops?

</comment><comment><USER5> My favorite part of the old article was

      The findings are false-positive proof since I have used the tool that discovered it for six years now and I am yet to see it misidentify an item throughout the years.

      -M. E. Kabay</comment>


California Cuts Budget Transparency Website From Budget - <AUTHOR> http://www.transparency.ca.gov/

<comment><USER2> Does anyone have info on the costs for running that website?

Governments have a taste for millionary contracts to maintain very simple platforms.

</comment><comment><USER3> So, who's volunteering to submit a FOIA request and get the information anyway? Big downside is California loses transparency points to the public, and they don't choose the format.

<comment><USER4> Someone absolutely should do this... there is definitely a business opportunity in publishing information gathered from foias

<comment><AUTHOR> I see it more as a _civic_ opportunity.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> gotta love the irony in this at least :)</comment>


Learning Advanced JavaScript - <AUTHOR> http://ejohn.org/apps/learn/# <comment><USER2> Previous discussion for reference:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=823347>

</comment><comment><USER3> Really smart tutoring tool. I've seen other tutorials with editable javascript examples, but I think the combination of well chosen examples, use of asserts, and nice design brings it to a whole new level.

<comment><USER4> _The Little Schemer_ would be great in this format.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> While we're on the topic of great JavaScript references for people learning the language, this one is worth considering: <http://eloquentjavascript.net/>

The author's open source projects are quite pedagogical, as well: <https://github.com/marijnh/>

</comment><comment><USER6> For those really wanting to learn JavaScript, I also recommend reading the Ecma 262 standard it is based upon:

[http://www.ecma- international.org/publications/standards/Ecm...](http://www.ecma- international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-262.htm)

It will help you understand how the core of the language works. I also keep the Mozilla Javascript Reference:

<https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Javascript/Reference>

handy for looking things up. For the browser compatibility side:

<http://www.quirksmode.org/>

</comment><comment><USER7> I think this is probably a re-post, but worth repeating for those who may have missed it.

Complete this, read JavaScript The Good Parts and JS becomes more pleasurable. If you're interested in improving, I highly recommend taking an hour to work through this tutorial in the console.

<comment><USER8> How does JS: TGP compare to JS: The Definitive Guide (Flanagan)? I have Flanagan but am curious as to whether TGP is worth buying also.

I also recently found the Crockford videos here: <http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/theater/> I watched the first one yesterday. It was a nice intro to what I might call the _philosophy_ of/behind JavaScript, and I'm hoping the others give me a few "aha!" moments about how to design my code.

<comment><USER9> I read TGP, and then I started using Google's Closure compiler. What I found was that Crokford recommends a lot of his own special ways of writing JS, and that they really aren't that great. To me Crokford's book is living in a pre- Closure-Compiler world, one where JSLint was the best tool to help you write good JS code, but in a CC world, Crokford's functional inheritance and use of JSLint are bad in the former, and unnecessary in the latter.

EDIT: Inheritance Patterns in JavaScript by Michael Bolin:

<http://www.bolinfest.com/javascript/inheritance.php>

<comment><USER10> Can you give some other examples of Crockford's advice that you'd disregard or how the Closure Compiler affects the way you write JavaScript?

<comment><USER9> I don't have his book in in front of me, but I remember him introducing and using helper function on the Object prototype to aid in inheritance.

I read his book because it holds such an authoritative place in JS literature. Last year, I began writing an application which has grown to over 6K lines of JS. At this level, pure JS become unwieldy, IMO. I went looking for a technology to help my code stay organized, optimized, and well documented. Closure Compiler was it. But since I had created my inheritance structure following Crokford's functional methodology, CC wouldn't work with it. Also, the only game in town for documenting JS, is jsDoc, in it's various incarnations. At 7K LOC, I wanted good docs for future developers. jsDoc doesn't work with functional inheritance either, strictly prototypical.

The bottom line for me is: Read the book, for sure, but if you plan on writing a large JS application, and go looking for help from a technology like CC (or maybe even DoJo), beware, that Crokford's recommendations (and they do come authoritatively) might put you in a place where you have to do a lot of refactoring down the road.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> A bit off topic: what is your interactive JS sandbox? (Firebug, Chrome console, Rhino... ?)

<comment><USER12> Most of the time I use Chrome's console and node in a terminal.

If I'm in Emacs I might fire up swank-js[1] which lets me interact with standalone JS interpreters like v8 and Rhino, but also contains a server that bridges the gap between the major browsers. Simply open up a web page in Firefox, Safari, Chrome, or Opera and then interact with that browser's JS engine from Emacs.

[1] <https://github.com/ivan4th/swank-js>

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I learned JavaScript but as soon as I understood the capabilities (but before I mastered usage) I decided to do all of my work in CoffeeScript.

I find it much cleaner / easier to write and I don't really see a downside to using it instead.

</comment><comment><USER14> I've learnt a lot from this, but still digesting some parts of it. Thanks a lot, I missed it the other time

</comment><comment><USER15> I didn't know about function.length; the function overloading trick in the last section is pretty clever.

</comment><comment><USER16> I highly recommend "Test-Driven JavaScript Development" <http://tddjs.com/> for learning JavaScript. Because it involves actual coding.

</comment><comment><USER17> I learned today, by chance, that you can reference an element object directly by its name without having to do a document.getElementById.

<comment><USER18> What do you mean by that? Can you provide an example?

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> It's sad that there are so many copy-pasters out there in the javascript world that this is called "advanced" and not introductory.

<comment><USER20> care to enlighten us with what you deduce to be advanced JavaScript?

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> This is really nice, but I guess I already knew this stuff.</comment>


Asana is down for more than 1 hour - <AUTHOR> https://trust.asana.com/ <comment><AUTHOR> This is a major inconvenience to us. Our company integrated our internal employees sprint and time-sheet to Asana as a way to not reinvent the wheel.

For the last week, Asana had majors downtime. I deeply regret this, but is a lesson to not have any hard dependency to external services.</comment>


Getting OpenID Into the Browser - <AUTHOR> http://radar.oreilly.com/2008/12/getting-openid-into-the-browse.html <comment><USER2> I'm all for it. It would also be cool if there were a reciprocating API that web developers could use to identify visitors, instead of having to implement some complicated OpenID implementation.</comment>


Microsoft Acquires Farecast For $115M - <AUTHOR> http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/04/17/microsoft-acquires-farecast-for-115m/ <comment><USER2> I remember signing up with these guys when they first launched. To be honest I haven't used them since (due to lack of flights to certain places), but they've certainly evolved a lot since then. Congratulations are in order!

<comment><USER3> Same here. I remember thinking it was a cool idea, but they only tracked certain kinds of flights, so the service was useless for me. I checked again a few months later, and there didn't seem to be any progress. I never checked again. Suddenly, Microsoft values them at $115 million.</comment></comment>