How to Escape the Community College Trap - <AUTHOR> http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/01/how-to-escape-the-community-college-trap/355745/?single_page=true <comment><USER2> This article was absolutely fabulous. I come from the community college setting, and this rings all too true for me.

At the community college I attended, it was a feeder school for many Orange County students. There was a general feeling of "High School Part 2" and an incredibly laid back climate. There also happened to be over 26k students, and classes were constantly too full. After having to schedule an appointment 3 weeks in advance with a counselor to discuss my options of getting into some B level school, I was told it would take me 6 semesters, or 3 years. I decided to learn to code.

I dropped out, hit the library, and started learning. Then, I applied to, and got accepted, into Dev Bootcamp. However, my mom ended up getting diagnosed with breast cancer, and in an effort to stay closer to her, I ended up getting accepted into General Assembly's Web Devlopment Immersive in Santa Monica. I decided to take a path of books, library study time, and self guided learning utilizing the many resources available to me such as; weekly coding sessions with Keith from DBC, Stack Overflow, and Google.

"The "beginning of the unbundling of the American university" is how one observer has described the transformation. All it will take for students to avail themselves of this emerging opportunity is a clear sense of where they're headed, lots of self-motivation, and good access to information about what mix of skills is likely to lead to a promising career."

This above statement could not be more correct. Although the tools are out there for you to learn and become whatever it is you want to do, there is almost too much information. You need someone to guide you through the obstacles on your own individual path.

One thing I do hope we see more of, is a push for continued learning and education. It appears the vast majority of people entering and graduating from our 4 year Univerisites, view college as an end all to education. There needs to be a bigger push for learning in general. I suppose this is easier said than done, however.

<comment><USER3> I think of the educational path that you're taking as the "auto-didact web development model". There are several factors that make this path viable (educationally and as a conduit to employment), including:

• a vibrant sector of the economy driving job growth;

• wide sharing of domain knowledge within an online community;

• accepted patterns of skill demonstration and social proof (beyond the traditional credential of a degree);

• low startup and ongoing cost of materials (computer ownership and access to commodity servers);

• willingness of professionals to act as mentors (whether through profit motives or generosity).

As a lifelong autodidact with an educational path that has been less structured than the above, I'm interested to see if elements of this pattern can work for self guided education in other fields... creating systems of non traditional educational guidance and credentialing. Part of the "the unbundling of the American university", as you put it.

[Edit: formatting]

<comment><USER2> I think there should be more emphasis towards self guided education in other fields. However, in a lot of ways web development and other sectors of programming, is an anomaly. Tech is one of the few true meritocracies left in this world, where it really doesn't matter where you came from as long as you can program. One of my instructors at GA is a fantastic programmer, and he dropped out of high school.

Your points for why tech works as a viable path are hard to reproduce in other fields, however that doesn't mean it's impossible. That needs to change, and I think companies likes Udacity which not only provide courses, but also support, will lead the way in this paradigm shift.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I went to community college, got an associates, and went to complete a BS in CS. Like pretty much everything else in life, you will get out what you put in.

If you are an unmotivated person who didn't take the traditional path of going to a 4 year school right after HS, chances are you are probably going to still be unmotivated when you go CC and end up dropping out.

If you were unable to take the traditional 4 year approach because life got in the way (like a young pregnancy, coming from a poor, rural family), then CC is going to give you a chance that wouldn't have had otherwise.

When I was at CC, I never got the impression that goal of the system was to get everyone an associates degree and then into a 4 year to complete a bachelors, but rather to give the people in the second category a path to a bachelors.

I really hate using the term, but the writers of the this article must be extremely privileged and out of touch if they don't understand that not everyone get the chances to go from HS graduation to living in the dorms as freshman, and the CC system is a great tool for upward mobility.

<comment><USER5> Did you even read the article? The entire point made is that not everyone has the opportunity to do college straight out of high school for any number of reasons, and those students, often without strong life/career/academic guidance, don't succeed in the current community college systems. The author examines the success of a new system with a strong emphasis on advising, guidance, and providing poor students the things they need - book loans, money, etc. - so they can effectively succeed at a CC.

> Like pretty much everything else in life, you will get out what you put in.

This is exactly the kind of idea the article is largely running counter to. Putting in the time and the effort isn't going to take you as far as you need to go if you have to figure out everything yourself from scratch; if you have no idea what to major in, or how to pick a major, or what majors are worthwhile; or if you have to take care of a kid, or work a job, and take remedial classes at the same time; if you don't have peers you can turn to that can provide good advice...

Kids from the burbs grow up with certain skills and attitudes and approaches indoctrinated into them from the start, and the "do everything yourself" approach may work for them because they have that prior grounding. That doesn't mean it will work for everyone.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> "In the community-college world, McGee's achievement is a shockingly rare feat, and the program that so intently encouraged him to accomplish it is a striking anomaly."

This article isn't my experience, but I come out of the tribal community college system. Maybe the tribal colleges are an anomaly, but they do mentoring and monitoring because nothing else really works. Technology is used to provide individual tutoring and a lot of support. A lot of the students are older than average and most have families. Vocational programs and standard academic classes are taught so vocational students can easily move to academics. The GED program at the college is always busy picking up where the high school failed.

All classes transfer because they wouldn't be taught otherwise and a close working relationship with the state with common course numbering being used with all state institutions and tribals schools. This allows students to pick up the big generals in a smaller setting with tutor and various academic program support. Plus, the cost is much lower.

Also, some students take college courses during their senior (and sometimes junior) year in high school. Their cost is like $15/credit hour and it transfers.

Beyond education, many tribal community colleges are centers for activities in the community and often a focus point for government programs.

<comment><USER7> Do tribal colleges have significantly better graduation rates than mainstream community colleges? I'm having a hard time finding good, current, nationwide numbers online, but that seems implausible on its face.

(On the other hand, it seems very plausible tribal colleges have excellent programs to maximize grad rates as much as possible.)

<comment><USER6> Uhm, I'm not sure, good stats are a bit of a problem and it is a bit of an apples and oranges comparison due to the number of high school dropouts that need to get their GED first. Most non-tribal community colleges really don't go in for the GED or the vocational education that are staples of tribal efforts. Also, sadly, many of the high school "experiences" have not prepared students for higher education.

So, it really depends on what the goal is this time around. Is it a vocational certification, industry certifications (e.g. Microsoft Office Specialist), AA or AS degree, GED, or just some classes before a 4 year college. Getting to a goal is a little more important than "maximize grad rates"[1].

I guess if you have the frame of mind as "community educator" then it makes sense[2] and it really is a bit of a different world.

1) that is important, but it has to be with the students on a graduation track

2) CPR is a popular class

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Here's a data point:

Being the oldest of 6 children meant that my parents could not afford to send me to any of my first choice schools. This actually meant an early career redirection for me (as I had planned to become a pilot after studying at Embry-Riddle). 16-19 year old me did not fully appreciate the cost of pilot training, and after about a dozen hours I could not afford training.

I refocused after "plan A" fell through, and went to my city's community college (College of the Canyons, or COC). To many students, COC was considered "the 13th grade" \- an extension of high school. Still, COC was incredibly inexpensive at around $20/unit. Here's a college secret, freshmen units and senior units generally cost the same within schools. I was able to complete two years of lower division study and G.E. at the incredibly affordable COC rate, and then transfer to CSU Northridge to complete my B.S. Between COC and the California State school (as well as working to afford my own books and school supplies), my parents were able to put me through school with enough savings left over to afford my younger siblings a college education.

<comment><USER9> Essentially what I did, two years CC, finishing up my BS at university.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Comparing community colleges with Harvard does a disservice to the many state 4 year colleges and universities that still offer a great education. I volunteered at one in Texas and none of the students had it easy, but 90% still graduated in four years. They might not be as cheap as a community college but it's a far better comparison than Harvard.

</comment><comment> barry-cotter If there are age restrictions on the ASAP programme they are not mentioned in the article. If you live in New York City and high school sucks you should apply for this programme if you are planning on going to a state college. I would guess you can get in as a 16 year old with a GED. High school sucks for plenty of people.

As an obvious consequence of the above reasoning this programme or something like it will eventually be dominated by middle class applicants. Places are allocated on a first come, first served basis. As I type this article is being forwarded by some Tiger Mom who wants to save on undergrad because their darling is going to grad school anyway.

</comment><comment><USER11> I live in a town with an unusually good community college. The new president just got fired because she enacted a graduation-centric agenda which antagonized both the faculty and the student body.

Part-timers enjoying themselves outnumber serious full-timers in this community, and a community college should, imo, embody its community's priorities. Being able to take great courses cheaply, on your own schedule, is fantastic.

I think programs like ASAP have a lot of merit, but the OP assumes that graduation's success and anything else is failure. I think they're using simple metrics to look at a complex space.

<comment><USER12> That's always been a problem for the CC- especially in a metropolitan area. For most of the successful students graduation is _not_ the final outcome. There are two major categories of student for which this is true:

(1) The student has a degree in, say, accounting, but wants to go into, for example, physical therapy or medicine. She needs to take some science classes, but has most of her college requirements fulfilled. She can do this at the cc part time. (2 The student intends to pursue a four year degree. He doesn't need to graduate from the cc to do so; he just needs to fulfill (what some call) a transfer block. As a case-in-point, the cc at which I used to teach had a physical education requirement for graduation. A long-ago president instituted this rule, and nobody changed it. Most transferring students don't want to spend the time and money for this requirement just so that they can say they graduated. They fill their transfer block requirements and go.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Community colleges are an excellent choice for those looking to get a quality education with minimal costs. Go to a community college for 2 years, complete the necessary course prerequisites for whatever major you want to pursue and then transfer to a state college to finish your Bachelor's and take the hardcore courses. Many community colleges also have special or honors programs that impose some requirements on the students (such as a minimum course load of 12 credits/semester) but provide dedicated advising (some of you might not understand how important this is, but advisers can make or break your career path at some points, specially in community colleges) and also tuition waivers.

I followed a very similar path to McGee's: went to a very large urban community college and got accepted to their honors program. I completed my first two years completely debt free, while getting a top notch education in the classes that I cared about (sciences mostly) and then transferred to a state university which is in the top 15 nationwide for my major. In all I saved around $30k for those two years. One of the downsides is that the quality of the education in community colleges varies wildly from one professor to another. I solved this by carefully selecting my professors and actively seeking the good ones. I found that attending a community college was in no way detrimental to my education when I compare myself with other students who went straight to the university after HS.

</comment><comment><USER14> So community colleges are traps because twenty something's who cannot read or write aren't graduating in two years?

Community colleges are the way out for folks who fall off the path early. Many also provide vocational options as well. The problems described mostly reflect the demographics that they serve.

<comment><USER15> Did you read the article?

Holding pedagogical standards constant, more people were able to graduate due to the ASAP program. The implication is that many of the students who currently fail at community colleges do not do so because they are incapable, but because they need guidance and structure.

>Community colleges are the way out for folks who fall off the path early.

What path? Is a four year college the expected path?

>The problems described mostly reflect the demographics that they serve.

I'm uncertain what you are trying to say. Do the problems of a certain demographic not matter? Is the ASAP program mistaken for helping the wrong demographic graduate?

<comment><USER14> Some kids get out of high school and find their way. They go to college, join the military, start working in a trade, etc. That's the "path" that I'm referring to.

Others don't. They end up working in marginal jobs or jobs without a good career path. In the meantime life goes on. They have children. They have ailing parents. Or any of a thousand other distractions.

Point is, for many, there isn't a "trap" in community college education. The ability to affordably take a couple of courses a year when you work one or two jobs and raise a child is success. Programs like ASAP are awesome and will help many, but the article implies that the overall concept of community college is a failure. That's an assertion that I do not believe to be true.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Transferring from a Community College to a state 4-year is very common in Florida. I dual-enrolled in high school and wound up only a semester short of my AA, so I stayed and finished it up before transferring. The local CC does a very good job at preparing students and giving tutoring/other services necessary to teach students what they need to know, which Universities can't really do, and MOOCs flat out fail at.

</comment><comment><USER17> Another data point.

I went to a community college (Modesto Junior College, to be specific) because my parents couldn't afford state college. I noticed that most people treated it like High School II, but that seemed more because those are mostly (not all) the kinds of people who ended up there. It seemed most of the ones with goals (or money, or parental encouragement) ended up at "real" college.

I applied to a college and got in, but knew for a while that I'd be going to community college due to our financial situation. I'm mostly black, but also part Native American and Mexican but didn't apply for any scholarships or student loans. I guess it was a pride thing to my parents. Knowing what I know now, I probably would have.

Sure, at the community college I went to you could say that classes were full and give just about any other reason for not making it through, but if you look for an excuse you'll always find one. I started taking classes in the summer two weeks after finishing high school. I took around twice the full- time student workload, but the following summer I finished the two year's worth of prerequisites needed to transfer.

I transferred to a local state college (Cal State Stanislaus) and earned my BA with honors a little over a year later. The whole degree took about 2.5 years from high school (summer 2003) to graduating (winter 2005) and this includes taking off one whole summer to work. I had the financial pressure. I was constantly told by my mom that she my not be able to afford to keep sending me to college, but luckily I finished before the money ran out. But even if the financial pressure wasn't there, I think I would have worked hard anyway. It's in my nature.

It is what you make of it. I know it sounds silly, but I haven't found one situation in my life that I couldn't influence or over come if I worked hard enough.

<comment><USER15> >but if you look for an excuse you'll always find one

Then why does the program described in the article work?

>It is what you make of it. I know it sounds silly, but I haven't found one situation in my life that I couldn't influence or over come if I worked hard enough.

It does sound silly -- and the program described in the article undermines this idea in general. Or were you just bragging?

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> At the community college I went to, you took as many or as few classes as you wanted, and could quit and return at any semester as you pleased.

What's with all the bullshit rules and time pressure?

<comment><USER19> The bullshit rules and time pressure are all part of making sure you actually make it through the system.

I, for example, took 4 years to get a two year degree in part because I didn't know where I was going, not all of the classes transferred, and the classes needed to transfer were different depending on which school you went to. So, you cover your bases since you might not get into your chosen school...

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> My wife did two years at a community college and then transferred into Cornell but she's definitely an anomaly.

<comment><USER21> I bounced from one to a liberal arts college to Columbia. Also an anomaly, but it was a fantastic learning experience (and quite the redemption from terrible high school performance).

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> These high graduation rates are quite impressive and certainly nothing to scoff about, but I'm curious about the employment rate or median income of the graduates. The article doesn't mention these things at all, even though offering a path to the middle class is the ultimate goal of the program.

<comment><USER23> Can't say anything about specific graduates, but overall statistics indicate that someone with a degree has about half the likelihood of being unemployed as someone without.

Some quick stats from Wikipedia:

> The average salary for college or university graduates is greater than > $51,000, exceeding the national average of those without a high school > diploma by more than $23,000, according to a 2005 study by the U.S. Census > Bureau. The 2010 unemployment rate for high school graduates was 10.8%; the > rate for college graduates was 4.9%

Of course, college is not a panacea for everyone, but having a degree significantly reduces your chances of unemployment and poverty in general.

In addition, education confers life benefits beyond simply employment, such as increased understanding of the world and critical thinking skills, writing ability, numeracy, etc.

<comment><USER22> Oh I know that a college degree is helpful in general, but I meant this program specifically. Aggregate statistics can sometimes be misleading.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> I found it very strange he had problems with basic math and writing, after 2 years in prison. He obviously had interest in education and wanted to learn.

In most European countries one can actually graduate INSIDE prison.

<comment><USER9> Depends on when he had his moment of clarity. You could just as easily have said that it's strange he went to prison at all. People fall, some get up, there is no schedule.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> I think this is just data point N that's consistent with so-called "higher education", if not government schooling alone, being increasingly revealed to be a very inefficient -- where not outright distortive or parasitic -- phenomenon that's simply a holdover from a previous age. Whether we call that the Middle Ages, or the early Industrial era, etc. It's clearly an anachronism, in terms of process and technology and assumptions. Good riddance! Not all "education" is good. And not all learning requires "education", formal or otherwise. Book learning can occur outside/without a classroom/school paradigm. And much of the correct-vs-false mechanisms and signal-extraction-or-broadcast mechanisms of traditional education can be replaced, or at least massively automated/optimized, with software. And like the general phenomenon where information bits want to be free, an increasing amount of static educational material is going to become effectively free and public domain. First the purely static experiences, like text, but an increasing amount of the dynamic and interactive experiences as well.

Education, government and banking are all up for yet more huge disruptions and shifts due to computers and the Internet.</comment>


In-app tips on Uber - <AUTHOR> https://www.uber.com/ride/how-it-works/tips/ <comment><AUTHOR> ""Drivers won't be able to see whether or not a passenger has left a tip until after they leave a rating for the passenger — so passengers don't need to worry about getting low ratings for not tipping," Campbell told Recode. "It's been this way before/after tipping."" [https://www.recode.net/2017/7/7/15934208/how-to-tip-uber- dri...](https://www.recode.net/2017/7/7/15934208/how-to-tip-uber-driver)

</comment><comment><USER2> I feel tips should be in the Uber app. They should have been there form the beginning. But of course Uber opted to say no tipping ever. Ha! that is old news .. they are driver and should be tipped for god service .. but only for good service. The driver should not be allowed to see if you tipped before they rate you.</comment>


AT&T considers getting rid of DirecTV as TV business tanks, WSJ reports - <AUTHOR> https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/09/att-considers-getting-rid-of-directv-as-tv-business-tanks-wsj-reports/ <comment><USER2> >The Journal report doesn't use the word "sale" to describe what AT&T is considering, but the end result could be AT&T no longer owning DirecTV.

You don't have to repeat corporate nonsense-speak that makes them sound like less of a failure. If they are selling the unit then write that they are selling it. Stop letting your source put their dumb spin on it.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Maybe it is just me but from a long term revenue / profit standpoint all that money they spend on satellite TV would have been better spent on Fiber.

</comment><comment><USER3> AT&T has so, so many OTT streaming assets.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_owned_by_Warner...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_owned_by_WarnerMedia)

</comment><comment><USER4> TV is going the way of the dinosaur, my kids would rather watch video on their phone than the TV.</comment>


I'm a Brit and America, your health care system is torturing me - <AUTHOR> https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/04/opinions/american-health-care-system-torturing-me-crilly/index.html <comment><USER2> I favor nationalized health insurance, but I worry American idealism would screw up implementation. The British are aggressive about rationing care. They aim to pay around 20-30,000 pounds per quality adjusted life year: [https://www.bbc.com/news/health-28983924](https://www.bbc.com/news/health-28983924)

There was an article on HN the other day that talked about how much debt a woman had incurred for her husband's cancer treatment after she hit her insurer's lifetime limit. But it turns out that in the UK, the expensive of that course of treatment compared to prospects would have been far above what NHS would have been willing to pay.

If you have socialized care, you need to ration it, ideally focusing on maximizing QALYs for younger individuals with years of productive life left. I fear our political system in the US wouldn't let us do that.

EDIT: Here is the article: [https://www.npr.org/sections/health- shots/2017/08/10/5425892...](https://www.npr.org/sections/health- shots/2017/08/10/542589232/widowed-early-a-cancer-doctor-writes-about-the- harm-of-medical-debt). The insurance policy's lifetime limit was $500,000, or about 400,000 pounds. Even if we assume British healthcare costs half as much, under NHS's policies, the expected benefit of treatment would have to be 6 QALYs for NHS to have paid even as much as the U.S. insurance company paid. But it was a rare, aggressive cancer and the lady's husband died in less than two.

<comment><USER3> Another problem is that for a variety of reasons, some of them structural, Americans consume significantly more medical services (diagnostics, procedures, visits) than Europeans do, without improved outcomes. There are fundamental inefficiencies in our system --- for instance, incentives have led to the creation of lots of small hospitals that see poor utilization --- that lead to this, and will be baked into any single-payer system we devise.

This concerns me enough that I oppose nationalized health insurance. I think the _status quo ante_ of the ACA was intolerable, and that the system needs dramatic improvements (high on my list would be price transparency regulations), but that the core problem we have in the US is not that health care isn't universal, but that we pay too much for it, and baking that quietly into our taxes is an alarming proposition.

<comment><USER4> > (high on my list would be price transparency regulations)

Why didn't the republicans do that over the past two years in the US? It seems like it would be great for the free market, and also encourage competition. Or do they believe in large company profit "protectionism"?

<comment><USER3> I don't know, except to say that national health policy has become a political football. I don't think there's an ideological reason for the decisions Congress has made; the system we have now was the Republican's proposed system in the 1990s (and was even a policy plank the the 1996 Republican Platform).

<comment><USER5> It's very easy to explain Republican opposition to the ACA. The 2016 election has made it clear that the GOP is motivated not by outcomes, not even by ideology (the current GOP, driven as it is by one person, has no coherent ideology), but by tribalism. Obama was and still is considered an enemy who cannot be allowed to score a victory at any cost, and so Republicans had to oppose the ACA.

I know that this take is likely to be viewed as extremely uncharitable to Republicans, but there really is no other logical way I can see to explain the party's anti-ACA plank.

(I think it's actually quite counterproductive to the conservative movement, because by abandoning ideology in favor of naked partisanship the GOP has guaranteed that Democrats will never give them a seat at the table when health care reform comes up again while Dems are in power. As a liberal, I couldn't care less, of course, but I can't help but note the irony...)

<comment><USER3> That's an argument I'm familiar with and sympathetic to, but not something I'd necessarily argue in mixed company, which is what I think of HN as. I don't understand the current coherent argument the GOP has regarding health care but I'm open to there being an ostensible argument and would only ask that Republicans recognize that whatever the new argument is, it's distinct from the original argument, which is that we should have a system that looks basically exactly like the ACA.

<comment><USER4> This is what I don't understand either. I understand the desire to cut medicaid to reduce taxes and the size of government argument. But weren't there free market incentives they could have done as well?

Here's one: tax cuts to insurance companies based upon the number of people they insure over time, to help offset the cost of insuring sick people.

This seems like a no-brainer republican solution, which probably would have gotten a fair number of democrats on board.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Meanwhile, here in the UK the NHS - weaponised by the left and virtually above criticism/reform as a consequence - tortures people by making them wait months/years for treatment due to rationing of care, this rationing in no small part being due to the fact that care is free at the point of delivery, which leads some people to abuse the service. Even a token £10 charge for GP visits, for example (subsidised for the genuinely incapable of paying) - similar to the Netherlands - would likely deter many of the unnecessary visits, and raise desperately needed revenue. I would gladly pay. But any/all genuine reform is blocked by the left raising the spectre of privatisation. So let's not pretend we have the all the answers here in the UK.

<comment><USER7> Here in the Netherlands we are not charged for visiting the GP (thanks Theme Hospital for learning me this term). Only for specialist treatments or medicine after diagnose you pay either a deductible if it falls within base insurance or 'normal' prices if you're not additionally insured.

This is so nobody is discouraged from visiting the doctor for help.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> This is more of a sidenote, but after having way, way more experience in healthcare system over the past few years, I thought I would share my experience.

The Affordable Care act made some big changes in health insurance. Unfortunately, making it "affordable" was not one of the things.

But, if you do have money, you have the option now to have absolutely great health care.

For about $1300 a month, you can cover a family of 3 in california. That amount is less if you qualify for subsidies. And that is not a budget option. This is a premium silver PPO from a large provider. All your normal medical needs are covered with copays. $40 for doctor visits. $80 for specialists and $350 for an E.R. visit. Your max out of pocket is $7500 per person or $15k total. So $30,600 a year is your absolute worst case maximum that you would have to pay if everyone in the family had serious medical issues in one year.

Now, I agree, that's expensive. But we are on a plan like this and it is very good coverage (and it's likely not much more than companies pay for their employee plans). While sometimes navigating everything has been a beurocratic nightmare, it has never denied us coverage and almost every doctor we have come across is in network. It also pays about $600 a month (after $80 in copays) for our regular, ongoing prescriptions.

It also covered the $600 a month eyedrop Rx I needed for about a year for dry eyes.

The quality of care is top notch and we have never had to choose anything less than the absolute best when it comes to treatment.

Anyway, my point is, American quality of care is some of the best in the world. If not the best... If you have money.

<comment><USER9> In 2017, the median income of households in the US was 61'000 $.

Meaning half the population has to pay half their income (maximum) into this healthcare plan. And 61'000$ income isn't being dirt poor either. In some economic models this is the lower middle class in terms of income.

For people who only graduate high school and no college, this is 80% of their income. If they go to some college about 70% (14'000$ left of the income). This group makes up about 30 to 40% of the US population.

In my own country, I would pay 350€ a month for a 60'000€ yearly income. The equivalent of an ER visit copay for you and it covers all my medical needs for a month.

<comment><USER8> With a multi-person household and $60k income, you would qualify for subsidies to reduce the premiums and out of pocket costs.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> This is a weird article that starts out with a customer service problem and ends up extrapolating an entire new health system out of it. The problem this person has is that they signed up for an HMO instead of a PPO, which is what most people in the US have. HMOs subject you to additional red tape in exchange for lower premiums; PPOs allow you to walk in to a specialist (though most Americans will see their GP first anyways).

Whether you get an HMO or a PPO, it is far easier to see a specialist in the US than it is in the UK. In fact, most health care economists would argue that it is in fact _too easy_ to get specialist care in the US, and we as a result overconsume services without obtaining better outcomes.

</comment><comment><USER10> "Rather like when the British rail system ground to a halt because of the wrong type of snow, the American health care system apparently is beset by the wrong type of patients: ill ones." That is so true. I'm not sure if the betterment of health insurance industry would be the solution, or the health insurance industry itself is actually the problem.

</comment><comment><USER11> Related: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_system#International_co...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_system#International_comparisons)

<comment><USER12> Thats a good quick chart I can use to pull up when arguing for a single payer system.

I think the biggest problem with single payer in the US is cultural, not even political - people simply don't trust the national government to do anything at an acceptable level (except when it comes to defense, the post office (74% approval rating), and the CDC).

<comment><USER3> How does this chart address the question of how we should fund our health care system? The problem is how much we're paying, not whether we pay for it in payroll taxes or out of pocket.

<comment><USER11> The chart shows a strong correlation between government funded healthcare, cost-efficiency, and effectiveness - that's how.

<comment><USER3> Correlation isn't causation. Switzerland's health spending is in line with that of Canada, France, and Germany, has roughly the same (better in some cases) life expectancy outcome, and is an entirely private system.

Life expectancy is also a poor way to compare health care systems, because major factors decreasing life expectancy have nothing to do with quality or access to care --- for instance, one of the most significant hits we take to life expectancy in the US is the prevalence of traffic fatalities.

<comment><USER11> You asked how the chart 'addresses' the question, not how it unambiguously proves single-payer will save US healthcare - if that's your standard, I'm afraid I, nor anyone else, can meet it.

And it has life expectancy, infant mortality, and preventable deaths - I guess they're all poor comparisons?

Finally, the Swiss system is private only by the standard that insurance companies are privately owned. If you look at how they must operate, and how patients pay for insurance, it's practically government run. From [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland) : "private health insurance is compulsory", "covers a range of treatments detailed in the Swiss Federal Law on Health Insurance", "not allowed to make a profit off this basic insurance, but can on supplemental plans", "The insured person pays the insurance premium for the basic plan up to 8% of their personal income. If a premium is higher than this, the government gives the insured person a cash subsidy to pay for any additional premium".

<comment><USER3> The part of this comment that bears rebutting, I rebutted in your sibling comment. :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I think universal single payer healthcare would be wonderful, but the issue of healthcare is politicized enough as it is. With a private company I can fight. I might lose, I might have to go elsewhere, but I have a choice. With the government I have no choice, and I have no recourse. When has that ever led to better outcomes?

<comment><USER14> For England: You can usually chose your doctors in the NHS. Here's the patient facing info: [https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/nhs- services/hospitals/nhs-...](https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/nhs- services/hospitals/nhs-e-referral-service/)

Here's the bureaucratic document for commissioners of general practice (primary care doctors) (sorry you need to ctrlF for "choice".) This document also tells you where in law patient choice is detailed: [https://www.england.nhs.uk/publication/primary-medical- care-...](https://www.england.nhs.uk/publication/primary-medical-care-policy- and-guidance-manual-pgm/)

> and I have no recourse.

If the treatment is negligent and causes harm you can sue. There are cultural and legal differences, but suing the NHS is possible.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> It is stupid to blame Obama or Trump even for the current state of Obamacare.

The parties involved right now are resulting in a much worse than medicare solution as it is similar to the three wolves one sheep version of democracy (which is the whole premise of libertarian concerns about democratic socialism). It is an attempt to obfuscate the otherwise obvious corruption and theft that is healthcare. Here the wolves are the AMA(doctors), insurers, pharma, and the politicians claiming to want to solve healthcare. The AMA and insurers have insane billing policies based on assuming inept doctors and corrupt patients.

Most insurance today is just passing on the discounted (actual) price on to the insured co-pay or deductible. They cover very little normal costs of medicine nor do they provide any actual services for their premium.

The main reason we don't have universal medicaid/medicare is similar to why the IRS doesn't do electronic filing themselves. Billions of dollars of middleman and tens of thousands of otherwise worthless jobs are on the line.

We need a private/public system. It will initially look costly and it will suck (differently) for doctors and hospitals. However, in five to ten years the costs will stabilize and insurance and other services will be more honest as they will have real competition.

Also, he should try to just fly back to the UK for non-emergency issues. Most foreign friends I have just keep insurance in their home countries as it costs usually 100-200 a year. A $1k flight back to see your family is cheaper than any surgery in the US.

</comment><comment><USER16> The HMO system is misery. PPOs are better but costly :/

<comment><USER17> Are you in an area where Kaiser Permenente operates? It has been, on the whole, a great healthcare provider. The level of integration of their centers is great--I can walk downstairs for an MRI or Xray or lab test (no waiting for one doctor's office to phone in authorization/orders). Electronic records are fully and usefully integrated. Costs are relatively low, and there are several options of locations in my area--small, neighborhood office; a larger, integrated facility; and a 24-hour hostpital-like facility. They also have partnerships with other hospitals in my area, so I can go to other hospitals and be treated fully under KP insurance. There are so many advantages, I've kept my KP plan over several employers (including a stint on the Healthcare marketplace).

<comment><USER18> I'm using the KP health system. Its pretty awesome. Everything in integrated. I can use the website or phone app to check any of my test results. I can message my doctor for a e-consult at no extra cost. They usually reply within half day. I can book most appointments online. If I went to a specialist, I can continue messaging them in the future. And since the doctor is gate keeper, you just need them to approve a procedure and it will happen.</comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: Song to Sing – build your singing repertoire based on your vocal range - <AUTHOR> https://songtosing.net/ <comment><USER2> Love it, I think most classical vocalists would prefer to mark their range on a stave though. I know instantly if the note I'm about to sing is going to be a struggle by seeing where it lies on the page. It took me a couple minutes to translate this by working from middle C. (I'm a bass/bari btw)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. Great idea with a stave. I was thinking of rendering a piano and letting users to press the keys, but maybe stave is even better. Will experiment this.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> That's really cool :) I transpose songs for my own adaptations, but I always have to check/remember which song I could sing at karaoke at the original scale.

<comment><AUTHOR> Don't know if it's obvious from the song page on the website, but it also automatically suggests an optimal transposition for a song for your range. I use it to quickly figure out where to put a capo on my guitar.</comment></comment>


How to contribute to an open source project: a git+GitHub flow - <AUTHOR> http://wiki.github.com/bricoleurs/bricolage/working-with-git

<comment><USER2> This is a more complete intro to git & GitHub: <http://www.espians.com/getting-started-with-git.html></comment>


Ray HarryHausen dies aged 92 - <AUTHOR> http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2013/may/07/ray-harryhausen-dies-london-obituary

<comment><USER2> Cinema lost a true visionary today. RIP Mr. Harryhausen and thanks for bringing magic to the movies.</comment>


To understand Aaron Swartz's contributions, look beyond the headlines - <AUTHOR> http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/22/3898584/aaron-swartz-profile-memory-to-myth

<comment><USER2> This is the most measured and balanced article I've read on Aaron. It portrays him accurately as the everyman hacker that he was rather than some kind of super genius. This makes his story all the more inspiring and ultimately tragic.</comment>


Starvation = Focus? - <AUTHOR>

So i dont have any RESEARCH to back this up. This is all completely personal experience... but I've experienced this twice now:
( two periods of ~ 2 day introduction period followed by 2 subsequent days of "starvation" )
limiting caloric intake SERIOUSLY switches up my focus what its like while working. ( noticeable increase )
DISCLAIMER: - I don't hold back on gratuitous intake of BLACK coffee, the occasional TEA, and water. Also multivitamins and intake of protein ( I'm not in this to lose MUSCLE )
Now I don't recommend this if you're seriously underweight .. I'd say I've got ~10 lbs of extra body fat.
NOTE 1: the first 2 days are HELL, your body HATES YOU. After than I've been eating no more than 1 meal a day @ sub 600 cal
NOTE 2: I also consistently break out 10 - 20 pushups at work, home, wherever ( also a good practice for the intro period to get your mind off the hunger pains )
The focus that i experience is sooo wonderfully even keel and persistent, though I'd recommend having LOTS of work to do ( multiple projects to switch back and forth between )
you'll need it, especially for the first two days =] <comment><USER2> It is called "intermittent fasting." Doing it properly works wonders and does not result in muslce loss, I used to do 24 hours fasts once a week. I'll post links when I'm not on my mobile...

<comment><USER3> I do 24 hours 1-3x a week but with a twist. Most people think "24 hours" and think "in the same day." I will eat breakfast and lunch one day and then nothing until dinner time the following evening. It still accomplishes the 24 hours (more like 27-29).

I also generally exercise at the start of the fast to burn off my glycogen stores so my body relies on stored fat for energy the next day.

<comment><USER2> I do it differently, I eat dinner then don't eat again until the following dinner. I find that not eating breakfast helps keep hunger at bay.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> You are killing your muscle mass by doing this:

Let me make a few recommendations if i may, that would give you the same result while still allowing you to preserve most of your muscle mass. And possibly lose fat.

\- Instead of eating less calories, eat less carbs. (It brings you the same level of focus as you would have if you had been starving yourself. Trust me.)

\- Do NOT do any form of anaerobic excercise without having had atleast 250 grams of carbs within that day.

\- Drink A LOT of water, pretty obvious but still.

<comment><USER2> actually proper intermittent fasting doesn't result in muscle loss (look it up). I agree with eating less carbs- but you should specify the carbs- the bad carbs are the ones that come from processed foods and grains, the good carbs are fruits and veggies.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> So i think this needs to get back a bit to the calorie restriction / intermittent fasting / "starvation"

and not so much dieting ( theres plenty of that elsewhere )

Particularly id like to know how long anyones sustained it and what are you like say 6 -10 days in

so far my max has been 3 before breaking out and eating a full meal ( 900 ish cal )

</comment><comment><USER5> Yeah, works for me.

I've never done this deliberately, but I have noticed this effect.

Drink loads of coffee as well for a double boost: it reduces appetite.

After a few days you will burn out though - only use at critical times.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Also, please avoid the " this isn't healthy " commentary.

I'm doing it.

<comment><USER6> It's perfectly healthy. as a sidenote: you can mimic those effects through exercise (and a smaller window of caloric restriction). I've had some great mid-distance runs on no calories for the prior 6-8 hours (they felt great.. but I couldn't have gone much further given the low glycogen).

The people who've posted here might also be interested in checking out PaleoHacks, they've had some interesting threads on IF: [http://paleohacks.com/search?q=intermittent+fasting#axzz1I0z...](http://paleohacks.com/search?q=intermittent+fasting#axzz1I0zrchkZ)

<comment><AUTHOR> absolutely! swimming but i just thought its kind of wild how after a certain point the body acclimates.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I find that WHEN YOU gratuitously use CAPITAL letters in your HACKER NEWS posts, it radically lowers READING speed and annoys THE everloving shit OUT OF most people trying to parse WHAT THE hell you're trying to SAY.

That said, I agree that minimal variation of blood sugar levels tends to result in greater focus, though the route to getting there doesn't necessarily have to be through starvation.

</comment><comment><USER8> So you're saying that you think better when you're hungry?

Makes sense. Right? Your body wants to survive so it allows the brain to function a little better so you can find some food.

Kinda reminds me of something I used to hear BASE jumpers saying back in the 90's: "life gets real simple three seconds to impact".

<comment><AUTHOR> yeah! and i've heard this as like a survival thing... which makes sense right? .. you're needing to be razored up for your next kill ( running on all 8 cylinders so to speak )

base jumping = win.</comment></comment>


Using Anki to remember what you read - <AUTHOR> https://superorganizers.substack.com/p/how-to-build-a-learning-machine <comment><USER2> Previous discussion: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22492381](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22492381)</comment>


Ask HN: How do you start giving tech talks? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER3> 1) Start small. Start in your company. Then go to local user groups (LUG, universities, etc). Then submit applications to small/local tech conferences, then go on to large ones.

2) Read something about the topic, e.g: [https://www.amazon.com/Confessions- Public-Speaker-Scott-Berk...](https://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Public- Speaker-Scott- Berkun/dp/1449301959/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1501249032&sr=8-1&keywords=confessions+public+speaker)

(there're tons of other books and resources, I won't provide everything here)

3) Speak about something you know very well.

4) Reharse. One of the biggest problem with presentation newbies is that they're unable to keep the proper timing.

5) Don't waste your audience time. Keep your talk as short as possible; don't try saying everything, try to say the most important and useful things.

6) Focus on your speech, not on the slides. The slides should support you, you should not be reading slides aloud.

<comment><AUTHOR> Any suggestions on finding small/local tech conferences other than Meetup.com?

<comment><USER4> That really depends on where you live!

I'm from Italy, and there tend to be small, single-day conferences around the country; you can find info on lanyrd, linkedin, facebook.. I can't tell.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> * Practice in private. Practice, practice, practice. People will tell you that you can over-practice a talk, and that's true, but it's not true the first time you're giving a talk. Or the third.

* Practice recovering when you lose your thread. The difference between amateurs and professionals isn't that professionals don't make mistakes, it's that they recover from them without it affecting the rest of their performance.

* Learn how to trick your brain into thinking that fear is excitement. You don't have to be able to do it very long, just the ten seconds before you're about to start, but it makes all the difference.

* Talk about something you know inside out. This helps with confidence, with recovering from losing your thread, and with answering questions.

* Keep it short and sweet (if people are interested they will ask questions), but remember that you'll talk faster on stage.

* Learn to periodically check your speaking speed, to pace yourself, and slow down when needed.

* Find a slide style you are comfortable standing in front of when it is projected. I know, I know, but it does make a difference.

* Ignore any advice that doesn't work for you.

<comment><USER6> The anxiety of stage fright is almost exactly the same as having had drank too much coffee. Once you realize this it's easy to go forward since no one has failed a speech because they drank too much coffee.

<comment><USER7> A recent Tim Ferriss post I read recommended literally drinking a bunch of coffee before practicing in front of the mirror/your friends/whatever so you'll be ready for that feeling when you are giving it for real.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Giving a tech talk is a great way to learn things. Having to explain something to another person forces you to clarify your own understanding of something.

I sometimes would force myself to do a talk to learn.

One suggestion I have is to find something that you still find "magical", then learn about it. At the end you will have a topic worthy of a tech talk. E.g. how does a JavaScript minifier work? or how does smartphone device image (ROM) format work?

By "magical" I mean you don't understand how it works and it does things almost like magic. Computers are not magical, so you can gradually turn magical things into in-depth knowledge.

Chances are that things you find magical are equally magical to other people. And then to get started, maybe start within your company or go to meetups with relevant topic.

</comment><comment><USER9> If you want to talk at a local meet up group it's usually an informal process to introduce yourself to the organizers and pitch an idea.

If you want to speak at a larger conference you'll have to keep an ear to the ground for a "Call for Proposals" or CFP. This is a more formal process where you'll have to pitch your talk and make it through the selection process. Some conferences are more friendly to beginner speakers than others such as Pycon.

That's how I started. I've done about 5 or 6 talks now that have ranged from very small, informal talks to larger ones where I was speaking to a room of a hundred or so people. You don't have to be an expert right away or aim to be a keynote speaker. It takes practice and that might not be what success means to you anyway.

The biggest talk I did I had planned for months. I had done a lot of work and research for it. It was at Pycon in 2014 [0] iirc. I travelled with my family out to Montréal to give it. I was really, really excited: I was about to talk about procedural generation and algorithms for game design... when the night before I was to give the talk my daughter had come down with a stomach virus. My partner and I spent the night in an emergency room and I didn't get any sleep that night. I was a _wreck_ on stage the next day. I'd cut out a bunch of content in the morning after rehearsing one more time, afraid I wouldn't be able to get through it, and when it came time to give the talk I rushed through most of it and had 10 minutes to spare at the end.

Despite how bad I felt it had gone more than a few people shook my hand after and had good things to say. A younger person there said it was the best talk they had heard all day. I'll never forget that.

I love teaching and speaking. It can be fun. But you don't have to be the best speaker to get started. You just have to put it out there and start giving talks. After a dozen or so I think I might start getting the hang of it.

[0] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE2YxsHPIfA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE2YxsHPIfA)

 _Update_ added link to talk

<comment><USER10> When I started doing talks for London Clojurians there were literally fewer speakers than speaker slots. This meant that people were pretty forgiving (it also helps that LDNCLJ are a bunch of very nice people).

Nothing builds confidence better than not being very good and the world not ending.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> My strategy: just sign up.

I find the social pressure to avoid failing miserably in front of an audience is sufficiently motivating.

Local meetup groups are great, as is giving a talk at your company. If I'm giving a talk, I like to give the same talk to both audiences.

<comment><USER12> Huge +1 to this plan. Nothing compels one to to learn to swim like being thrown into a shark tank.

For shrinking the overall size of the endeavor, a lot of conferences / meetups have a lightning talk section so rather than filling in 45-60 min of time, you've only got to do about 5 minutes, usually with a hard cut off. It's a great way to get your feet wet.

<comment><USER13> +1, lightning talks are amazing as a speaking opportunity. They're drastically less scary than a 40 minute talk, so it's easy to give it a go with a simple talk without much prep, and as you gain experience they're an amazing place to practice honing more complex topics down to their essential essence.

They're also a great place for comedy, if you're into that sort of thing: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3xuvPPBPM4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3xuvPPBPM4)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I gave a talk in PyCon India ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iB4M-H3z_8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iB4M-H3z_8)) three years ago.

I submitted a proposal to PyCon India 2-3 months before the conference. They accepted my proposal, I think, mainly because of my contribution to CPython. I am not a core developer but I have many patches accepted to CPython code ([https://hg.python.org/cpython/log?rev=vajrasky&revcount=200](https://hg.python.org/cpython/log?rev=vajrasky&revcount=200)). So in my case, contribution to open source -> proposal -> giving talk in conference.

<comment><USER15> I was present in the audience for the talk. By far my favorite asyncio talk from the conference.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> My first couple of talks were in front of huge groups of people at well known tech conferences and they all were blatant disasters. I wish I would have made so many things differently...

BUT: I DID START GIVING TALKS!

That in itself was one of the biggest achievements in my professional life! So if there is one advice, for me it would be: Get going!

Put all thoughts of: "I need a better topic." or "I need a more suitable occasion" or "I need a smaller audience". Just go. Stop worrying, hand in your CFPs and start moving. Build momentum and get your feet wet.

</comment><comment><USER17> There was an interesting article 2 months ago that was trending on HN [0] with a good discussion [1].

\- [0] [https://hynek.me/articles/speaking/](https://hynek.me/articles/speaking/)

\- [1] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14450905](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14450905)

</comment><comment><USER18> [http://enwp.org/Lightning_talk](http://enwp.org/Lightning_talk)

Good conferences offer a lightning talks session (i.e. strict time limit of 5 minutes for each speaker) where any attendee can give a talk on short notice. It is the ideal setting to get one's feet wet as an absolute beginner because to fail is forgiven by the audience, and the constraints work out in favour because they help focus.

If you succeed at one, congratulations, you have seen the proverbial elephant and you now have earned the courage and perhaps the experience to do a longer session talk. If you don't do well, at least it was over quickly.

</comment><comment><USER19> Everything many people said here + RECORD YOUR TALK and watch a few times with a paper and pen to note things you don't like. Things to look for are:

* Disturbing pauses

* Unnecessarily long sentences

* Too little jokes

* Too much jokes

* Repetitions (this is actually really hard to do, people tend to think every single phrase has its own unique meaning, but actually...)

* Slides hard to read from afar

* Slides with too many text

* Slides with too many code

* Slides with no code

* Slides with no helper shapes like boxes, arrows, stressed words etc

Also you should prepare for a Q/A section and study for some probable questions you come up by yourself.

This comment looks like an advice for "How to talk?" but actually these are the things to be careful about before you start giving talks around.

Good luck! :)

<comment><USER20> I completely agree with recording yourself. By recording a trial run you'll also get good practice being nervous. Just turning the camera on you helps to simulate the stress of talking in front of a crowd.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Why do you want to do it? Usually people give talks because they work on a topic that's worth giving a talk about. Starting from the goal of giving a talk seems backwards.

</comment><comment><USER22> I grew viennajs from 5 people in a cellar (when I took over) to Austrias biggest monthly dev meetup (100+ live attendees each month, ~1.8k on the newsletter). i always made a point to give a really un-perfect code talk (called orga intro talk) each month.

why? a) i love talking code, b) i wanted to show everybody that it is ok at meetups to just talk - even if the talk is not yet finished. the discussions after these unfinished talks were quite often much better than the ones after really well prepared ones.

additionally i made sure that there was always a good selection of newbie talks and perfect (sometimes int. speaker) talks.

so my tip: choose a meetup, go there, give a talk.

</comment><comment><USER23> A good way to develop presentation skills is to participate on a local toastmasters group: [https://www.toastmasters.org/](https://www.toastmasters.org/), I have been participating regularly for a year and I found out that I've been improving my presentation skills.

Besides that, I like the idea of starting small: present something for your closer colleagues, then present for your company. Once you have a talk accepted and you find your lines of thought, rehearse: find interesting topics, present them for your closer colleagues and see if they can give you feedback, iterate on that feedback and you will have something great (I presented my first talk 5 times for my colleagues, and even on the last I found space for improvement).

I've wrote a blog post about it: [http://blog.rlmflores.me/slides,/conference/2012/05/31/confe...](http://blog.rlmflores.me/slides,/conference/2012/05/31/conference- speaker-101/)

</comment><comment><USER24> You can start giving tech talks in your own company. In my company we have Tech Talk & Pizza the first Tuesday of every month, and works really well. The people interested in give a talk have to add the topic in a poll, and the most voted topic is selected for the next month. It's a good idea to have some fun with your colleagues, spread knowledge, and eat free pizza!

</comment><comment><USER25> Start with local Meetups. It is usually more casual, get comfortable and then start off with tech conferences. I never got good at it.

</comment><comment><USER26> From my experience you need three things:

0) You need a goal.

      * I want to give tech talks is good.  I want to talk about X at Y is better.
      * Keep it realistic.  When you achieve it, set the next goal.
      * Commit to the goal by signing up for it.  Runners do this and it works.  We sign up for a 5k race in a few months, and then we train for it, because now we're committed.

1) You really need to learn how to be a good speaker. This isn't actually particularly hard, but it does take a lot of work.

      * Find a good coach or program.
      * Give lots of speeches to small audiences.  People think large audiences are harder: they aren't.
      * Get feedback from people you trust  Act on that feedback.
      * Record yourself giving the speech and give yourself feedback.
      * Don't neglect the positive feedback.  Good public speaking is a lot about confidence, so learn what your strengths are, and bring them out.
      * Don't use slides until you can give great talks without them.  Slides distract you, and break your connection with the audience.  We think of them as speaking aides, and they can be, but they can just as easily do the opposite.
      * Learn to memorize your speeches.  If you're a musician you know why memorizing a piece is important. Same deal with speakings.
      * Murder your filler words.
      * Your talk can almost always be shorter.  The shorter talk is almost always better.

2) Have a tech topic you are passionate about. You should feel like you are the person that other people want to hear from about this topic.

      * Write about it for your self.
      * It's tech, so use it.  Build cool stuff.  Put it somewhere where other people can use it. Put where people that scare you can use it.  Maintain a project that directly relates to your passion.
      * Develop best practices that you believe in.
      * Get involved with the global conversation about your topic.  Validate your ideas.

</comment><comment><USER27> Is the question:

1\. How do you get good at giving talks?

2\. How do you generate opportunities to talk?

Most of the other comments are focused on the first (practice), but if the question is the second, it is really a question about marketing.

You have to become famous in a niche, perhaps write something you can be known for. Try to develop a platform, or else write for a well known brand.

<comment><USER28> Yeah, the second question is really important. What good is all the prep if you don't have an actual speaking engagement arranged?

And, you don't necessarily have to be "famous". One can keep an eye on conferences or other gatherings at which one would be interested in speaking. When they announce request for proposals, submit one. Spend a few weeks working on the request and make sure it is really well thought out and interesting.

when you get an opportunity to speak, take it (no matter how small). Speaking is a good way to build up that "fame" rather than the other way around.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> One thing i like to do is:

Watch other people's talks that are on the same subject you'll want to speak.

Make notes (mental or in paper) about what you think that talk missed, what could be improved, please bear in mind the POV of the target audience.

Go to the extra mile, always focus on bring some trivias that people can ~visualize~.

For example, when i give talks about Debian[#]: I know that a lot of people likes to tell the story of how Debian release 1.0 went wrong because InfoMagic accidentally released a cdrom containing a development release of Debian as 1.0[1], but few people show the actual cd containing that release, so i like to put that[2].

Almost everyone also mentions about the relationship between debian's logo and buzz lightyear's chin, but almost none show or say something about the two pre-toy-story logos[3].

These examples represent only one of the few things i think one have to focus when doing talks, and may look silly, but i like to value them because they'll be one of the things that attendees won't forget easily plus are always fun to know.

Also, the presentation i referred has some other problems, please just note the referred pages.

[#]please note that i don't think i'm a good talk'er yet, just sharing my experience.

[1][https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/project-history/ch- releas...](https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/project-history/ch- releases.html) [2][http://debianbrasil.org.br/articles/0170/7708/introducao- ao-...](http://debianbrasil.org.br/articles/0170/7708/introducao-ao-debian- samuel-henrique.pdf#page=6&zoom=auto,-195,598) [3][http://debianbrasil.org.br/articles/0170/7708/introducao- ao-...](http://debianbrasil.org.br/articles/0170/7708/introducao-ao-debian- samuel-henrique.pdf#page=7&zoom=auto,-195,505)

</comment><comment> j-c-h-e-n-g I like Strom Carlson's talk talk at LayerOne back in '08 (pre-social media, pre-Meetup, pre-widespread lightning talks):

"In this presentation, Strom will guide you through researching, preparing, and giving a technical talk to a diverse audience. He'll help you avoid common mistakes, and point out some not-so-obvious mistakes that even the best tech presenters tend to make. If you've never given a tech talk before, this presentation will make it much easier for you to get started; if you're an experienced tech presenter, this talk will make you even better."

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wb2b69JNU8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wb2b69JNU8)

</comment><comment><USER30> I think the secret is just to apply. You'd be surprised how few people apply to give tech talks at conferences, especially local oriented ones. If you want to give talks at more major conferences I've found it helps to have some sort of public profile about your topic.

In my case I used to blog a ton and one of my blog posts was about doing realtime processing with Django (before it was built in to the framework). So I submitted a short proposal for Djangocon and ended up getting selected to give a 3 hour tutorial talk. It was definitely a bit scary having my first major talk be 3 hours long, but as long as you know your topic pretty well you'll do great!

</comment><comment><USER31> Are you asking how to find a suitable place for giving talks, or how to organize one? If the latter, I'm also interested as I'm in the process of writing my first talk.

For the former, it's rather easy really - there are plenty of minor events where you can offer to give a talk. I'll be giving my first one at a hacking/FOSS event a couple of hours away from where I live, but there are also chances to participate in smaller local events as long as your talk fits the theme. It's no big deal - you make up your mind about the topic of your talk, contact the organizers giving an overview of said topic, and wait for confirmation.

<comment><USER32> > For the former, it's rather easy really - there are plenty of minor events > where you can offer to give a talk.

Well, that's the part that I am finding difficult. I have some interesting topics to address; I have a decent amount of skill and experience at presenting; I have a lot of practice with internal audiences. But I am terrible at networking and this part you describe as "easy" is the stumbling block for me.

Do you have any specific pointers for finding events (even minor ones) which are local (I'm in the Philadelphia area, which is within driving distance of lots of east-coast places) and topical, and finding them EARLY enough to submit a speaking proposal?

<comment><USER33> > "Do you have any specific pointers for finding events (even minor ones) > which are local (I'm in the Philadelphia area, which is within driving > distance of lots of east-coast places) and topical"

You need to describe the subjects that you'd like to give talks about before anyone can suggest an event that might be suitable.

<comment><USER32> Well, for instance I currently have a talk mostly assembled which would cover the way in which our team architected a system to allow small components of a complex stateful system to be deployed independently with minimal risk to the other components of the system. This could be classified under "Devops" or "System Architecture".

<comment><USER33> Okay, so if you had to summarise the lessons learned from overcoming the challenges you faced, what would you say they were?

<comment><USER32> * Isolating the effects of one team's functionality from another team's is essential if each team is to be allowed to deploy independently.

* Doing so in a way that still allows your entire app to appear to be a coherent whole is tricky.

<comment><USER33> Thanks for your reply.

To be clear, to have a talk that makes an impact there should be general lessons that can be extracted from the specific experiences you went through. The title of your talk should address the general lessons rather than the specifics.

Based on what you've shared so far it sounds like a potential title for your talk is 'Coordinating Modular Development'. Is that the general idea behind the talk you had in mind?

<comment><USER32> I'm not sure that is the exact title I would use, but it is certainly a good description of the content I would put in this talk. (My only concern with the title is that the talk I am envisioning would cover the specific technical details of ONE solution to coordinating modular development, rather than an overview of many possible solutions.)

I do, however, understand and appreciate your point that the title of the talk should put the talk in a broader context, particularly addressing why the listener would be interested.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> First step: Start giving normal talks. Does not need to be tech talk. Visit your local Toastmaster Club and start working on the Competent Communication handbook. It will be fun, do not worry. You will get instant feedbacks, helping you improving. Being constantly on stage gives you confidence: You can do it! It's easy!

Second step: Tech talks: \- Know your audience: Who will be there? What knowledge do they have? \- Know your topic: Even if everybody understands your speech, there will be some questions in the Q/A. \- Keep it simple: If you cannot explain it to your 9 years old, you do not understand your topic.

</comment><comment><USER35> Be _really_ knowledgeable about something that other people are really interested. Find an angle of that thing that nobody's really looked at yet. Pitch that talk to places whose audiences are into that kinda thing.

<comment><USER36> But don't hold yourself too much if you think you're not too knowledgeable about something to present about it.

You may be deterred by watching some talks where the presenter seems awesome and seems to know so much more than you. You don't have to be the top expert on a topic in order to know a few things worth sharing.

<comment><USER37> This is absolutely the case, and I think an important addition is that usually there's only a very small percentage of the audience who are already knowledgable enough about something to benefit from hearing a truly world- class expert talk about it.

Most people go to tech meetups, even very specific or niche ones, hoping simply to pick up a few tips or an introduction to something from somebody who used it in anger. You don't have to be an authority on something to just learn a few lessons from using it and pass them along.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> This question is a bit unspecific.

Getting to be a speaker is more than just being good at public speaking. It's about building a personal brand. For that you have to start sharing your knowledge. Start blogging, share what you got to say and try to get some outreach on the web. Start offering to talk in your company and at local tech- events in your city. Finally, watch out for "call for papers" from bigger conferences and start speaking there. What also helps is a great network from people who already are speakers in your field and a network to those who are organizing those events.

</comment><comment><USER39> Before I start, I want to get one thing out of the way:

You DO have interesting stuff to talk about.

Everyone thinks that their work isn't interesting enough to warrant a talk or that they have to do serious heroics to create something talk worthy.

That couldn't be further from the truth!

Everyone wants to learn something, and everyone is interested in hearing other people's experiences.

Now that's out of the way, this is what I do:

\- Write a blog post on something that interests you. Publish it here, Reddit and on your favorite sites (if you want to). This will help arrange the thoughts that will eventually become your talk.

\- Create a Slides presentation on your post. It doesn't have to be wordy, since you want people to pay attention to you instead of the projector. Here's an example of a good slide deck: [https://www.slideshare.net/mobile/randfish/inside-googles- nu...](https://www.slideshare.net/mobile/randfish/inside-googles-numbers- in-2017)

\- Give a talk at your local Meetup (or user group for your tech; there are many of them). Email the organizer to ask if they're okay with it (they usually are unless they are really really big, in which case you might have to wait)

That's it! It's easy to get into talks these days.

One thing to keep in mind: KNOW YOUR AUDIENCE. You don't want to give a deeply technical talk to a non-tech audience and vice versa. Always keep your audience in mind. Writing your post before giving your talk will help with that.

Also: your first talks will probably suck. You'll get nervous. You'll forget stuff. You'll probably improvise a lot. If public speaking is new to you, it will take some time to get comfortable with being in the spotlight.

You WILL get better!

It takes practice to get good at this, just like anything else. (I was on a national debate team in high school for three years, did a play a few years before that and did public speaking stuff in college; I'm comfortable with the stage, but it definitely took time to get there!)

Good luck!

</comment><comment><USER40> 1\. you need to have something you really want people to know about, develop a talk around it

2\. start doing that talk at your local meetups, you'll figure out how to do talks well with time (also there is good advice online)

3\. identify conferences you'd like to speak at, and answer their call for talks

4\. keep doing all that, and at some point one of your submissions will be accepted

5\. rehearse many times to be prepared, and do a good talk

6\. more submissions will be accepted, and if you keep doing a few conferences a year, eventually you'll get invitations to speak at conferences

</comment><comment><USER41> I started at a local user group ([http://www.uuasc.org/](http://www.uuasc.org/), the Unix Users Association of Southern California). At my very first meeting, the organizer asked me what I could present on... next meeting I was presenting. Very smooth (on the organizer's part -- I'm sure my presentation could have been improved). This was in 2001 and I gave a talk on performance monitoring and tuning of Apache httpd. =) Good times.

</comment><comment><USER42> Research and hard-tech talks generally work by invitation and reputation, so you have to be the local insider or an expert already. Case studies and personal experience talks, on the other hand, are more open to outsiders and still make a good opportunity to grow both your ability on stage and your personal reputation for future talks. Therefore, I would advise the OP to start applying for the latter kind of contribution.

</comment><comment><USER43> Meetup organizers tend to always be on the lookout for new speakers. Start with a 5 minute lightning talk and then offer to be a regular speaker on smaller topics until you are ready to take on a 15/30/45 minute talk.

Some of the more common lightning talk topics I've seen is:

"5 random {{language}} tips" "5 things you didn't know about {{language}}"

They force you to be on the lookout for oddities and to do your research.

</comment><comment><USER44> The how-to "public speaking" responses are useful for the logistics and practical sides, but let's back up a bit:

Step#1: Have something compelling to say about a topic people are interested in. If you aren't sure about that side of things, nothing else will help. Once you have that down, then you focus on delivery, and iterating on the details.

</comment><comment><USER45> Find a conference that interests you, submit a proposal.

Outline and practice. Find a delivery style that works for you.

YouTubers have a surplus capacity for critiquing these types of works. Their feedback may be helpful, and the motions of editing, recording and publishing may help isolate your target audience.

Give your talk. No matter how excellent, people will cough and manipulate their phones.

</comment><comment><USER46> I've been on both sides of this, as a speaker, and as a conference planner. If you can, volunteer to be a planner, you'll see that it's (sometimes) rather challenging to find people to speak (at least in my area).

Find something you want to talk about and there are many places willing to let you talk already, both local and national.

</comment><comment><USER47> Try "A funny thing happened to me on my way here tonight..." then pull your braces a few times.

</comment><comment><USER48> If you're giving tech talks and interested to crowdsource questions from your audience, drop me a note. My company's product, Pigeonhole Live, let's you do that for free. If you need any of the paid stuff, happy to support you too.

</comment><comment><USER49> I am giving quite a few talks (60-90 minutes) on some industry-specific Deep Learning hands-on applications lately and my sequence was the following:

\- internal employer conference

\- my alma mater (university)

\- companies of friends (at this point you have zero stage fright)

\- anywhere else

This should get you comfortably started ;-)

</comment><comment><USER50> Have a purpose.

People give talks to get something. Do you want a job? To make money? Peddle something? Get clients?

Then look for little events that are hard up for speakers. Hang out and talk to folks and you'll build up a critical mass and hear about better opportunities.

</comment><comment><USER51> I've followed Maciej Ceglowski's advice to moderate success at work: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14033638](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14033638)

</comment><comment> alok-g I have found books by Jerry Weissman helpful.

[https://www.amazon.com/Jerry- Weissman/e/B001H6N238](https://www.amazon.com/Jerry-Weissman/e/B001H6N238)

</comment><comment><USER52> If you are in Chicago and want to present to recent bootcamp graduates I'd be happy to host you. email@example.com

</comment><comment><USER53> Submit ideas to conferences. Get accepted. Panic. Make slides. Practice. Give talk. Learn from your mistakes and repeat.

</comment><comment> blubb-fish Go to a MeetUp - offer tech talk - next time, give tech talk.

wash - rinse - <USER2>

</comment><comment><USER54> I am a speaker on a national circuit, and many of the comments here resonate with my experience

\- Start small.

I started with brown bags at my company, then moved to our quarterly company meetings, then user groups (I spoke in multiple user groups any chance I got), then a local conference, and finally with the big ones.

\- Topic choice

Always speak about something you know well. Audiences will often throw a curve ball at you and you should be able to step away from the main script, answer a question and then arch the conversation back to the main talking point.

A good starting point, once you have a topic in mind, is to read a book on the subject (or at least glance at the table of contents) or watch someone else's video on the subject. This usually gives you a (good) starting point to frame your agenda.

\- Practice practice practice!

Even after doing this for many years, I incessantly practice my talks. Do it out loud and it will help highlight rough edges when segueing from one section to another, or even gaps in your own understanding.

As other commentators have said, it also improves timing. I now have a gut feeling on how much material fits in a 60 or 90 minute talk, or even a half/full day workshop. It will come.

Finally, get your significant other/kids/friends/colleagues to watch you give a talk and provide honest feedback. Body language, tone, inflection all matter.

\- Slides are good, but not important

In other words, slides are props, you are the main act. I have never appreciate it when conferences ask you to email a PDF of your slides, because invariably my slides contain at most a word or two. They do not and cannot stand by themselves.

\- Again, start small, get a feel for it, then read a book or two. One I highly recommend is Presentation Patterns - [https://www.amazon.com/Presentation-Patterns-Techniques- Craf...](https://www.amazon.com/Presentation-Patterns-Techniques-Crafting- Presentations-ebook/dp/B0093J9K14/) [Disclaimer - All 3 authors are friends of mine]

Speaking is like running. Till you don't do it, reading a book on it seems to add little value. Once you have a little bit of experience sections of these books will pop out at you, revealing places where you can improve

At the time of giving the talk, just remember,

\- It's OK to be nervous. If you are not nervous then something is wrong. I still get butterflies in my stomach every single time \- The audience WANTS you to succeed. They are going to spend the next 60/90 minutes of their lives watching you speak, and they want it to be a productive time.

Good luck!

</comment><comment><USER55> I think you're asking more along the lines of how do you get people interested in what you have to say. Of course you could just look up public speaking techniques instead of asking here, which is why I assume that's not what you're asking.

In order to be a successful public speaker, you need credentials. You should start by having a good position in a successful company. This adds a lot to your credentials. You could also write research papers, or books. Have a successful blog, etc.

</comment><comment><USER56> Step 1 - write a talk. Or several. Aim for 20mins. That'll do to start.

Step 2 - present at a company meeting or local meetup. Take notes on what works & what doesn't.

Step 3 - repeat until you feel confident that you're comfortable doing this. You'll start to find your voice and beats that work. Can be the same talk at different places but I suggest a couple just to mix it up for you.

Step 4 - submit proposals to conferences. Start local if possible, smaller is a good way to start with (less competition).

See step 3 :)

</comment><comment><USER57> ???

I volunteer to give at meetup groups that I'm in and they asked often.

Some conventions asked for tech talk, I'm probably doing one next year.

Also my college clubs I do one.

I also have a group of friends where we just group study and I do tech (mostly machine learning/algorithm) talk with them.</comment>


Ask HN: Getting money for Graduation? Ideas? - <AUTHOR>

I've  heard of people sending Graduation flyers in hopes of getting money. (most do)
It would be nice, I do need money for grad school.
Here is my question/idea.
I am tempted to just spam my graduation flyer to every orthodontist, doctor, ect.. in our city.
I was also thinking about paying some neighbor kids to hang flyers on peoples doors.
What creative ideas do you guys have to improve my idea?
or
Is this worth doing?
Thanks in advance, please leave your input.
PS: Costs for this project are around $260.
I figure worst case scenario, loose some cash and have a good laugh, and help some neighbor kids earn some money. <comment><USER2> If I'm understanding correctly, you're contemplating just asking random people that you don't know for money, simply because you are graduating?

May I ask where you are from? I'm genuinely curious if this is considered socially acceptable. It reminds me of the "homeless" guy standing on the corner at the intersection with a sign asking for money.

<comment><AUTHOR> Ha yes, you understand me correctly. Utah, and yes people give money for every ecassion. I agree this plan wouldn't work in say Boston.

And yes homeless guys do make a lot of money here

Is it ethicly wrong..... ? Probably.

But if some doctor opens up an invitation and says, "eh maybe he is a pationt send him $20" and I use that $20 for graduate school is that so wrong? Again the answer is probably yes lol</comment></comment>


Ruby and the power of gems - <AUTHOR> http://gduplessy.com/2011/04/09/ruby-and-the-power-of-gems.html

<comment><AUTHOR> Just wrote this up and I would like to know what you guys think about it! :)</comment>


Show HN: Slowy app, Real-world connection simulator and bandwidth limiter - <AUTHOR> http://slowyapp.com/

<comment><USER4> You don't need an app for this. I wrote a shell script which uses ipfw for exactly this purpose (Most probably this app uses ipfw too) here is the script- <https://gist.github.com/1409218>

Run it like

       throttle -p 3000 -d 1000ms -s 256Kbit/s start

p - <USER2>

d - network delay you want

s - <USER3>

<comment><USER5> For designers working with css, going to the command line can be daunting. So you could wrap this in a nice app on the dock or the menu bar, and maybe you'd like a couple of euro for your time and writing some support documentation..

<comment><USER4> I know :) The comment made me smile because I wrote the script for a client who is a designer.

I used to use the ipfw commands directly. I didn't want the client to remember the syntax and also starting and stopping the throttling involved a couple of commands which can go wrong. So I wrote this and also had some default values so that he can just do _throttle start_ and _throttle stop_

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Umm... Lion does this out of the box w/ XCode:

[http://mattgemmell.com/2011/07/25/network-link- conditioner-i...](http://mattgemmell.com/2011/07/25/network-link-conditioner- in-lion/)

It's called the "network conditioner" and it does lag, packet loss, latency, bandwidth limiting, and more. And it's free.

</comment><comment><USER7> So how is it different from /Applications/Utilities/Network Link Conditioner ?

<comment><USER8> On the homepage (6th feature) "As Slowy mainly is a GUI for built-in OSX tools, it will occupy only few MB of your RAM and nearly 0% of your CPU."

<comment><USER9> I'm pretty sure Network Link Conditioner is the same.

<comment><USER10> I think the author would be better off giving it away for free, earning goodwill and making a name for his dev shop, then releasing other apps to all the people who now are aware of him.

<comment><USER11> Or sell it, and earn good will because he sells good products?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I'd like to have something like this for Linux. Anyone got any tips how to set something like this up? Command line and kernel option hacking preferred to GUI gadgets.

I would need to test my virtual-connection-over-UDP code with packet loss, latency and incorrect packet order delivery and I really wouldn't want to write code inside my app to test.

<comment><USER13> tc

<comment><USER12> Excellent. I sort of expected an utility like this to be part of a "standard installation".

Are there good examples of using tc to emulate a crappy connection?

<comment><USER14> Sure. You can add jitter, packet loss, duplication, corruption, shaping, reordering, prioritisation. This page has examples: [https://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/netwo...](https://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/networking/netem) (netem is the kernel framework, it is to tc what netfilter is to iptables). The examples apply to outgoing traffic, search for ifb0 for a way to apply them to incoming traffic.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Seems to be a trend to wrap a lesser known commandline tool in a cocoa app and knock it out for a couple of quid to arts graduates. Someone did a cocoa version of guard recently. That other guy tried to make a system preferences pane for the hostfile, but apple wouldn't let him. I'm sure there have been others.

At least this guy has the decency to point out that it's already built into OS X right there on the landing page ;)

If you need to do this stuff to a saturated gigabit pipe in both directions, then may I suggest the superbly named 1U Network Nightmare, yours for only $9999.

<http://www.gigenn.net/gigEnn/>

</comment><comment><USER16> I use Charles (<http://charlesproxy.com>) for this sort of thing - offers a few more features than Slowly

Available on Windows / OS X / Linux

One the downside it needs Java!

</comment><comment><USER17> See also Speedlimit: <http://mschrag.github.com/>

Does the same thing and is free!

</comment><comment><USER18> I really liked the design of this page. The gray/white/red color scheme was right for this product IMO.

</comment><comment><USER19> Hi guys, I'm the developer of the application. Thank you for all your comments. I'll take them into consideration while trying to improve the rough edges and missing features of Slowy for the next update. I'll update the website soon (<http://slowyapp.com>), completing the FAQ section and adding a new blog section.

</comment><comment><USER20> For Windows I would recommend NetLimiter[1]. Really nice way to check speeds and connections as well as remote controlling the bandwidth on other computers (with a NetLimiter client on both).

[1]: <http://www.netlimiter.com/>

</comment><comment><USER21> The website has some layout problems when viewed from the iPhone, and, more importantly, it appears to only have a description, but no Download button or a pricing information.

<comment><USER22> It's a mac app, you wouldn't want to download it on your iPhone anyways :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> It doesn't limit upload rate. Thats too bad.

</comment><comment><USER24> i was always a big fan of sloppy <http://www.dallaway.com/sloppy/> and hadn't bothered to look for alternatives, but the other projects here are equally heartening and have... less java

</comment><comment><USER25> Please consider posting some mac app store stats after some time, thanks!</comment>


Hebrew University Archaeologists Find 12th Dead Sea Scrolls Cave - <AUTHOR> http://new.huji.ac.il/en/article/33424 <comment><USER2> "As some of the oldest surviving documents on Earth..." that statement marginalizes the fact that there are millions(!) of written documents from the two millennia before 0

<comment><USER3> I'm sure there are lots of people associated with this discovery that would be happy to sweep those older documents under the rug and forget about them.

<comment><USER4> Why? Does age somehow imply truth value?

<comment><USER5> It does if you go around saying that educated civilization, or even earth itself didn't exist back then.

<comment><USER6> To my knowledge, even the most extreme Young Earth Creationists believe the Earth predates these scrolls by ~6,000 years.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> " _prove_ that Dead Sea scrolls from the Second Temple period were hidden in the cave"

"the findings indicate _beyond any doubt_ that the cave contained scrolls that were stolen."

"The material, when published, _will provide important new evidence_ for scholars of the archaeology of Qumran and the Dead Sea caves."

"The discovery towards the end of the excavation of a pair of iron pickaxe heads from the 1950s (stored within the tunnel for later use) _proves_ the cave was looted."

Well, at least they are sure of themselves.

</comment><comment><USER8> No scrolls found though.

<comment><USER9> IIRC there was just one fragment of a scroll found years ago, with the cryptic message: "koyìsˀərun χàd ləwaþ χàd va"

Which loosely translates to: "Will anyone really believe this stuff?"

It's unclear what it was referring to.

<comment><USER10> I choose to believe it's a prophecy, foretelling the coming of a Universal search engine that will someday make that joke stop working.

<comment><USER11> All hail the universal search engine!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> "It's not much of a Scroll Cave, is it?

"Finest in the district sir!"

"Explain the logic underlying that conclusion, please."

"Well, it's so clean, sir!"

"It's certainly uncontaminated by scrolls."

"You haven't asked me about missing fragments of Mandean gnostic texts, sir."

"Would it be worth it?"

"Could be."

"Were any Mandean gnostic scrolls found?"

"No."

<comment><USER13> I'm not sure what this is from or if you made it up, but I read it first in the style of Monty Python and then in the Style of Blackadder... both equally humorous... [Off to look it up]

<comment><USER14> It's the Monty Python cheese shop sketch.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWDdd5KKhts](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWDdd5KKhts)

<comment><USER13> Of course it is, lol - awesome, thanks for the link :D

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> This link adds nothing compared to the original source: [http://new.huji.ac.il/en/article/33424](http://new.huji.ac.il/en/article/33424)

<comment><USER16> Well, there's the popup 'subscribe' window that made it difficult to read the article on my phone.

<comment><USER17> Value added! _high fives all around_

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Congratulations!

</comment><comment><USER19> The found scroll is presently being carbon dated in Bonn. If genuine it belongs at the beginning of the other scrolls and is believed to read "To my darling Candy. All characters portrayed within these scrolls are fictitious and any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental."</comment>


WSJ – The Fable of Edward Snowden - joatmon-snoo http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-fable-of-edward-snowden-1483143143?mg=id-wsj <comment><AUTHOR> Wow the leading lie is a real porker. Of all the things they could have said about Snowden they criticise him for pulling a sicky?</comment>