New York Regulator Probes UnitedHealth Algorithm for Racial Bias - <AUTHOR> https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-regulator-probes-unitedhealth-algorithm-for-racial-bias-11572087601?mod=rsswn <comment><USER2> This 'algorithm has bias' kind of headline needs to die.

Every system has '''bias''' in the colloquial sense so long as the inputs to that system are not uniformly distributed. The only thing the designer of the system can do is make a conscious choice about which way to '''bias''' the system and be able to justify that choice.

In practical terms it means that systems that deal with diverse populations are always going to be 'unfair' towards some group of people. The only control we have is who that group of people will be. This is inherent and unavoidable. We need to accept this fact and keep it in consideration when designing such systems (or choosing not to design them in the first place).

{procedural fairness, group fairness, utility}. Pick two.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn7oWIhFffs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn7oWIhFffs)

<comment><USER3> It comes down to the world frame some folks have. To them the world should have total fairness between all different people irregardless of predisposition, skill, situational luck, or effort put in. If it is not fair by their system they can fix it by pressing down on the scale. If any system or person has a fact that disrupts their worldview they are labeled things like "biased/racist/patriarchal/etc". Their desire for absolute equity requires rejecting facts that show people are different.

To people with this worldview an algorithm will always be "biased" because it simply reflects statistics instead of their view of they see as "right" which is with their benevolent finger on the scale.

I edited this slightly to try and remove any us vs them rhetoric. I am not passing any judgement just stating what I have observed.

<comment><USER4> That's gonna be a yikes from me, dog.

Edited this (since you did as well) to say that simply pointing to statistics and saying that "facts don't care about your feelings" is sophomoric and probably intentionally disingenuous. For instance, statistically in the US black people are more likely to commit crimes than white people. So should we implement systems that target suspects based on the color of their skin? Obviously not. There is a very important confounding factor, socioeconomic status, which happens to be very correlated with skin color in the US due to a long history of racial discrimination. So saying that "these systems should not be racially biased" is an important criteria.

<comment> 8f2ab37a-ed6c We already discriminate as of today based on gender statistics in areas such as car insurance, where men pay more on average, because they're statistically more likely to cause accidents and drive recklessly. Why can't statistics be extended to other areas?

<comment><USER5> In the EU exactly that kind of gender discrimination is illegal. Insurers are not allowed to charge men more than women, just for being men.

The question is, do you want to live in a society where prices are set based on one's genes. I sure don't.

<comment><USER6> >The question is, do you want to live in a society where prices are set based on one's genes. I sure don't.

Those genes do clearly make us behave in different ways, so why not?

I'm not a feminist, but it would be fairer for women to pay less for the same insurance since they are less likely to get in trouble with their cars. Why should they pay more?

<comment><USER3> I think the argument reduces to since we can get hyper accurate data on an individual level how can we treat people fairly? If an insurance algorithm charges one person who is higher risk 100x more than someone else is it really a fair form of insurance?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> It is not possible to avoid racial bias. If you make a model predict equally for two classes, you've likely only made your predictions worse for both.

Prediction outputs come with a degree of confidence. It is much better to change how you evaluate your predicted probabilities for each protected class than to try and force the probabilities themselves to come out even.

The algorithm is rarely going to be the problem. It is the input data that is allowed into the model. If you have a problem with how healthy whites are getting recommended for treatment more than sick blacks, you need to remove the inputs that otherwise differentiate them.

<comment><USER8> Outreach to healthy people is a different care than for someone who is sick. The comparison should be between two groups with the same need/types of care.

<comment><USER7> That's backwards. If the problem is that the algorithm says healthy white gets treatment more than sick black; that means the algorithm has something else that it's considering besides healthy and sick. If that's the problem you're solving for, you need to remove the input that creates the difference. Once it's gone, the algorithm will be unable to produce a different result for two people with the same sickness level.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> [http://archive.is/AOYcV](http://archive.is/AOYcV)

</comment><comment><USER10> Garbage in, garbage out. An algorithm trained on data from a bigoted society like ours will return bigoted results.

You can try to fix the algorithm but the only thing that can really work is to fix society...good luck with that.

</comment><comment><USER11> >The probe follows a study, published in the journal Science on Thursday, that found that an algorithm sold by UnitedHealth's Optum unit ranked white patients with fewer chronic diseases and healthier vital signs the same as sicker black patients.

>[...]

>"This compounds the already unacceptable racial biases that black patients experience

The article makes it sound like blacks are being discriminated against, but it looks like they're given preferential treatment? Healthy whites are ranked the same as sick blacks. That seems like a good thing, because less sick = lower premiums. Am I reading this correctly?

<comment><USER12> The very first sentence:

> New York's insurance regulator said it is launching an investigation into a > UnitedHealth Group Inc. algorithm that a study found prioritized care for > healthier white patients over sicker black patients.

 _prioritized care for healthier white patients_

<comment><USER13> How does an insurer prioritize care for members relative to each other?

<comment><USER14> From the article, "Dozens of hospitals and insurers in the U.S. use the Optum tool to identify diabetes and other chronic-disease patients who should receive extra assistance such as home-care visits, help managing medicines and support coordinating doctor appointments."

<comment><USER13> My insurer sent me letters about something like that. I assumed it was of no value, just something they do to look like they care. Kind of like the card they sent for discounts on non-prescription "health related" pharmacy products. Like the homepathic cold remedies.

I also assumed that they weren't deciding who could receive the services, just who would get the letters.

...and I also assumed they didn't have my race recorded anywhere now that I think of it.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


The story behind Curiosity's self-portraits on Mars - <AUTHOR> http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2015/08191059-curiosity-self-portrait-history-belly-pan.html

<comment><USER2> I find the mental image of this happening on the Martian surface quite amusing. Imagine an alien ship landing in your backyard, slowly extending an ominous robotic appendage and then... taking a 50 selfies.

<comment><USER3> I find it amusing that we would see an advanced alien race as being borderline idiotic and socially blind. They would instantly grasp what was going on. They have PR in their world too, not to mention the engineers would know that a 'selfie' would be good to diagnose any external damage.

<comment><USER2> The patent absurdity of the scenario is what makes it funny. Of course it's totally unrealistic. Lighten up.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> All that work for a selfie - what a hack!

</comment><comment><USER5> Is this easier than having a camera with a self timer, that can be set on the ground, and then go pick it up? At least it would get a realistic perspective.

<comment><USER6> Come on - that's kinda missing the point.

It's not like they were gonna go buy some mil-spec or space-rated GoPro, then lift it right out of earth's gravity well and schlep it 150 odd million miles to Mars just so they could get some selfies.

This is a _brilliant_ hack using all existing equipment in ways it wasn't designed for, but turns out it's quite good at given the constraints.

<comment><USER7> While I agree with what you say, you might under-appreciate the value of cool pictures. Yeah, they are doing cool science stuff up there, but a good part of the value of these missions is to get people excited about space, kids interested in technology, and to give humans some perspective of their place in the universe. A high-resolution selfie of this kind-of-cute robot is as important as the results of their drilling experiments, IMHO.

<comment><USER8> This is one of the aspects that gets me excited for airborne drones which can operate in the Martian atmosphere. Not only for the potential offered by longer range, but also the possibility for some great photos of any ground based vehicles whose mission zone overlaps.

Great photos can inspire and help fund great science.

<comment><USER9> How much would Mars's thin atmosphere interfere with that plan? Would you be able to lift any significant amount of weight?

<comment><USER8> Impacts it a lot, but there are teams working on it: [http://www.space.com/30155-nasa-drones-on-mars- video.html](http://www.space.com/30155-nasa-drones-on-mars-video.html)</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Kippt (YC S12) and Buffer Join Forces for Saving and Sharing Content - <AUTHOR> http://pandodaily.com/2012/08/13/ycs-kippt-and-buffer-join-forces-for-saving-and-sharing-content/

<comment><USER2> I love Kippt!

Founders: Is there anyway I can access my bookmarks on my mobile/tablet?

<comment><AUTHOR> Unfortunately we don't have our own mobile interface just yet (the site somewhat works with iPads). If you're on iPhone, there's an awesome app called Clippt, highly recommend downloading it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Awesome - two of my favourite recent startups.

<comment><USER4> Thanks Jon. Happy to have you :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Sounds a lot like Intigi which already does this quite well: <https://intigi.com/about>

<comment><USER4> Seems they're doing something little similar.

Buffer and us have specific focus. Buffer focuses on delivery & sharing, and we focus on being a home for your links & information. Archiving and sharing the stuff you care about.

We also try to be as open as possible with a API, and for example our extensions are open source.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> This is good.</comment>


The brain functional connectome is robustly altered by lack of sleep - <AUTHOR> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26712339 <comment><USER2> I have had sleep issues for many years. I have seen sleep specialists regarding this issue. They basically tell you to reduce stress. But my daily life is not particularly stressful.

But my job as a software developer involves brain-intensive work, and when I come home after work, I work on hobby software development projects, which means my brain is working intensely whenever I am awake. That may be the stress leading to my sleep issues. But I can't give up my hobby.

All doctors want to do is put me on prescription pills for the rest of my life, and all of these prescription sleeping pills are addictive. So I have been avoiding prescription meds.

Then I discovered that magnesium supplements largely solves my problem. I hope this helps someone: If you have sleep issues try Magnesium L-Threonate. Magnesium fixed two issues for me: sleep and muscle stiffness.

<comment><USER3> You could also try meditation. It helps one to find a way to turn off the brain when it is not needed.

<comment><USER4> +1

I'm not an active practitioner of meditation, but I've been using some light mindful exercises [1] when going to bed, and it helped me falling asleep faster. It used to take me 30-45 minutes to shut down my brain; now I can do in 5-10.

Melatonin also helps, particularly when it's getting late and I'm too excited to sleep. I only take 300mcg, which is enough to make me _want_ to sleep. But I use only as a last resort. It sometimes causes very vivid (and infrequently even lucid) dreams, and then my brain doesn't rest as much, and I wake up tired next morning.

[1] Nothing too fancy; just some tips from "Search Inside Yourself" [2]. Basically control your thoughts, empty your brain, focus on breathing, and consciously think on every muscle of your body. Rinse and repeat.

[2] [http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0070XF474/](http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0070XF474/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Barely suppressing my horror at the word 'connectome' to make a relevant comment:

As a new (6 months) parent, I can confirm anecdotally that lack of sleep profoundly messes with the brain. Even getting your normal duration of sleep, but punctuated with lots of short waking periods, makes it almost impossible to function in highly demanding intellectual tasks for any length of time.

And if you have any underlying mental issues (hint: you do), you better believe those are coming to the surface when you've been chronically sleep deprived for 3 months.

Long story short: for the love of all that is good, sleep well. If there's something stopping you, find a way to get help or get away for a while so you can get some real sleep. The ability to think properly comes back remarkably quickly after a good sleep.

<comment><USER6> I have never slept well my entire life. 4-6 hours a night is my average. It doesn't seem to impact me... I have always felt great, and I have always coded on complicated things without issue.

There has to be a ratio difference for people.

<comment><USER7> Same here. In fact, when I sleep for 8-9 hours, I am profoundly less sharp and productive.

That said, I'm only 20, and I don't want to wreak havoc on my future health. Difficult stuff.

<comment><USER8> Have a large glass of water before sleep (real water, no soda or juice). A lot of issues and tiredness after long sleep is caused by dehydration.

<comment><USER7> Sadly I don't think that's the case for me. I drink too much water if anything.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I had paid less attention to sleep until I got hit by Appendicitis and I had to be operated, that was a waking call for me to take health seriously, so I stopped all the late night waking and started sleeping at least 6-7 hrs daily. What I have observed is that if you keep everything under check then it won't impact your health much, too much of anything is bad, so I started to daily exercise, meditate You have no idea how awesome it feels to meditate at 5.30am under a giant tree listening to the sound of birds chirping. Sadly I shifted to a Metro now, so can't sit under a tree, but I do meditate, it helps to clear my mind, meditation + daily exercise = good health

<comment><USER10> I understand how any trip to the hospital might lead to a reflection on your health. However, I fail to see how appendicitis is related to a lack of sleep.

<comment><USER9> haha yeah the trip to the hospital lasted less than a week thanks to the advanced way to remove appendix, but since then I started on the proper schedule of sleeping at least 7 hrs a day no matter what, diet, exercise and everything else, so getting enough sleep is the part of living a proper life and the hospital life I have to thank

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I wonder if the changes are eventually reverted. How long would it take? Does it always?

</comment><comment><USER12> With an AHI[1] of [148, 150] across two tests, I'm quite sure my brain is... shall we say.. "uniquely connected".

// I just spent the last few days in the ICU due to the heart problems that come from lack of O2. Not fun. Seriously, get your sleep.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apnea%E2%80%93hypopnea_index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apnea%E2%80%93hypopnea_index)

<comment><USER13> That sounds extremely unpleasant. What can you do about it, and what are you managing to do?

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> When I find myself "in a rut" mentally, sometimes a day-night-day of no sleep followed by a night of slightly more sleep than usual does just the trick to make me more coherent and productive.

<comment><USER15> Sleep deprivation is known to have fast-acting, acute antidepressant effects. This may have something to do with whatever sensation you're noticing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> PDF of paper available?

<comment><USER17> [http://linkinghub.elsevier.com.sci- hub.cc/retrieve/pii/S1053...](http://linkinghub.elsevier.com.sci- hub.cc/retrieve/pii/S1053-8119%2815%2901141-6)

<comment><USER16> Thanks!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I watch nature programs narrated by David Attenborough when I need to get to sleep. There is something strangely calming about observing nature.</comment>


Ask HN: Impossible to Write Good Software As a Service? - <AUTHOR>

I currently work at a digital agency, we offer our services to build websites for clients.
Now to write good software you need to iterate over it. I think we can all agree that it's also impossible to write a perfect spec of a product before it's built. Too many unknowns, interactions and hearsay.
The problem that we have is when working with clients you either:
a. Have a super detailed plan that the client signs off on before you build. You then run into all sorts of unforeseen problems. The client either pays for changes to the spec or you build a bad product. Either way the client is unhappy.
b. Have an informal plan of what you're planning where the client will continue to gouge additional work from you wherever they can. The clients happy but your business is earning an average of $30 an hour and your going home at 3am every night.
So,
B is realistic if you're going to be working to an hourly rate but no client wants that, they want to know an upfront final cost before they start. A is also not good, if the client is not happy, they're not going to come back.
How do you solve this paradox and offer software writing services that don't suck? <comment><USER2> One solution for the upfront cost vs time and materials dilemma is to have an in between model. Have a time and materials contract with a bonus for coming in under a certain budget (or negatively a penalty for going over budget if you must).

As for writing good code, unless your client is educated enough on the topic, the won't want to pay for good code no matter what your contract. Sometimes they might be justified too if there isn't going to be any maintenance, but most often that's probably not the case.

I think your only option is to quote enough to cover doing it properly, and sadly probably not get the job because you are more expensive than others.

I remember reading somewhere that when a client puts out a "tender" formal or not, they typically choose one of the cheaper options, and therefore they choose one of the vendors that least understands their requirements.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm quite sure this is the same dilemma (or at least part of the problem) which causes government projects to come in massively over budget and not delivering on their promised feature set.

A recent project was delivered in Melbourne, Australia called Myki which I'm assuming was delivered under scenario A from my original post (you can read about it here: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myki#Criticism>)

I like the idea of the mixed model though, that has some potential to it.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: How can I restore my concentration when reading? - vanilla-almond Years of skimming text online and rapidly flicking between browser tabs has severely impaired my ability to just stop and read something in print or online with my full attention and concentration. I can't even enjoy a novel sometimes because my mind won't quieten down and instead will wonder off to another thought.
As soon as I attempt to devote my full attention to a text - not skimming but properly reading all the text and concentrating of the meaning of the text - my mind fires off a myriad other thoughts that dilutes any attempt to concentrate on just one thing: the text in front of me.
Have you ever been in a similar situation? How did you overcome it? <comment><AUTHOR> I've found much of the same problem: I'm someone who's easily distracted anyway, and it's frustrating not being able to read.

Here's what I've found works for me, for books and articles:

\- For books, setting aside dedicated time to read is really useful. This means that I leave my phone in another place, out of reach, so I'm not tempted to pick it up and check Facebook/Twitter/etc. For me, this is somewhere away from other distractions, like my computer / workspace, etc. \- Set aside a small amount of time to read without distraction in a setting like this, and grow that amount. Maybe that's 10-15 minutes? Start that out as a routine, and as you get more comfortable with it, add on a little more time. Block out that space and aggressively protect it. I've found that setting aside reading time in the morning, before I open up my computer and check social media, really helps.

Generally, I've found that the more I read, the better I get at it: practice, practice, practice. Treat it like an atrophied skill.

For longer articles, I have a bookmark set up for the newsletter I write (andrewliptak.substack.com), in which I have a short recommended articles section. I reserve this for longer-form pieces, and when I come across something that looks interesting, I bookmark it and come back to it when I'm in a good mindset to actually read the thing (see my above point.) I've set aside other parts of the day (usually at the end) to read these sorts of things.

Another thing that I'd recommend is Pocket.

Another good practice thing for reading is short stories. I typically save them via pocket, and read them when I've got smaller pockets of time to read something.

</comment><comment><USER2> Another ADDer here. I have two modes of operation: hyper focused or not. Things that require focus, like deep reading mean I need to switch operating modes. I have oodles of ways to address this issue so I only chose a few. Maybe one helps.

Ways I do that: 1\. Be really interested in the content — not sure if this works with a non add brain, but it really doesn't matter where I am, if it's interesting I'll jump right down that rabbit hole. Not sure that helps you but maybe can create some parameters for experimentation (like is there a pattern with your interest level and if so how can you mitigate that) 2\. Meditation - specifically working with the breath. It takes 30s-3min for me to reboot my brain between tasks. Not much of an investment and in my experience it works. 3\. Printing stuff out — i find it much easier to read deep if I have it on paper 4\. Copying into an editor and editing — this is my goto for boring reads because it uses a different part of my brain that reading alone 5\. At the end of each paragraph I ask myself "what was the point of that?" This is a habit that takes time to develop. At first you may get through an entire article without asking but eventually you can catch yourself sooner.

<comment><USER3> How do you learn to work with the breath?

<comment><USER4> "The mind illuminated" is a very good introduction to meditation. It is unique in the formal system he used to make sense of the various levels of practice. Very practical and low-BS.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> > Have you ever been in a similar situation?

Yes

> How did you overcome it?

\- I'm able to focus better when I've slept well. This may sound obvious, but realizing this made me go from "Oh no I've damaged my focus by skimming too much!" to "Okay I just haven't slept well today. I'll do what I can."

\- Set aside blocks of time and do one thing. I made and use [https://crushentropy.com/](https://crushentropy.com/) for this. I use it everyday and it has helped me a lot. It's like markdown for hi-res scheduling your day.

\- Once I have clarity that I have nowhere else to be and nothing else to do right now, I'm able to relax into reading what I'm reading, which at the moment is: "Relevant Search" by Doug Turnbull and John Berryman, which I'm using to improve the search in [https://histre.com/](https://histre.com/) if I may blatantly plug my startup ;) (Tangent: Why is search so broken in all knowledge base apps, bookmarking tools etc?)

\- Work your way up. Several years ago, I used to read for 12 hours straight, taking just bio breaks. It was a more carefree time. I'm working my way back up to it. I'm at 2 hours now. It may seem little in comparison, but that's enormous progress from where I was a couple of years ago, so yay!

</comment><comment><USER6> I think all of the comments are very helpful and are tactics I've used quite successfully to manage similar difficulties. But I wanted to add that your symptoms are also consistent with ADHD without being sufficient to merit such a diagnosis in and of themselves.

There are (some, controversial) indications that ADHD is over-diagnosed in male children and young adults. Less well known is that it's likely under- diagnosed in women and older adults.

I was diagnosed as a child, had that diagnosis hidden from me and only began treatment in my 40s. The impact was life changing.

Everyone is distracted sometimes; everyone has specific tasks which reliably confound concentration. Neither is a sign of ADHD. But if your knowledge of the condition is very general you may benefit from a deeper review of the condition and, perhaps, a professional evaluation.

Or, you know - maybe just a kindle and some more captivating books.

<comment><USER7> How did you go about getting treated for it at your age?

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Things that help me include:

\- Listening to white noise such as rain sounds (e.g. rainymood.com), which seems to take up some of my brain's attention so that I can focus. It also helps with my tinnitus.

\- Using a dedicated reading device with no or few other apps, such as an e-reader or very basic tablet. I use Instapaper to save articles for later reading, which brings me on to...

\- Only reading when you have the time to focus, without interruptions or task switching. So no quick article reading during a restroom visit.

\- Getting enough sleep, which tends to help with everything except having enough time in the day to do everything.

</comment><comment><USER9> I've found that, like anything else, you can train yourself out of this kind of behavior simply by being conscious of it.

If you're reading something on the web, pull the tab out into its own browser window and maximize it. If your OS of choice has a "silence notifications" option, use that. When you realize that you've gotten sidetracked just remind yourself that that's not good and return to what you were doing.

Essentially this is a lite version of some mindfulness therapies. Over time actively centering yourself back in the moment will help your concentration just like it helps with anxiety.

While it doesn't really help you, I thought I'd also relate a bit of an anecdote. For years and years I had a list of some of the "classics" that I felt like I should read because they were apparently so monumental we have to force every high school kid in the US to read them. For years I tried and made no progress - I could sit down with a fiction novel and be lost for hours, so it wasn't my concentration, but any time I picked up something by (for example) Dickens I would spend three minutes actually reading and then my mind would wander. At some point I would notice that I'd been reading the same paragraph over and over and give up, disappointed in myself again.

Eventually I just realized that I simply _hate_ Dickens and no amount of effort was going to make me start liking him. I had to admit that I was just never going to get that feeling of awe that I felt like I should have for any of his works and gave up and moved on to books I actually liked.

It won't work if it's something for work, but perhaps you've been focusing on things you feel like you _should_ learn, but don't really _want_ to learn.

</comment><comment><USER10> This doesn't work for everyone but for me, it's been two things:

(1) change of environment -- coffee shop, library, etc. Same principle as WFH separation between work/home -- your brain is wired to environment, often more than you think.

(2) going non-digital -- Rhodia premium paper & TWSBI Eco fountain pen for scribbling little notes (that I never expect to review again -- it's just for building muscle memory. It's ok to take notes that get thrown away!). Electronics are put away.

Also what really helps? Going in with a goal in mind, and a reason for engaging with the material. Not all books are meant to be read and finished.

Economist Tyler Cowen--an omnivorous high-volume reader--has a 50 page rule (if I remember correctly). Stick it out for the first 50 pages, and if you don't feel the book is interesting enough to continue, stop. Just stop. Be comfortable being a book non-completist.

(Caveat: mostly applies to non-fiction.)

</comment><comment><USER11> My solution to this problem was to read things out loud (or whisper)—this way my mind stayed focused on the material much longer than I was reading silently. When I caught my mind wandering, I would go back to the point where I didn't remember what I've read and started again. I had situations when I had to read one sentence multiple times to understand it—my mind was completely somewhere else.

Another thing that had a big impact on me was to reduce internet news & social media consumption to the minimum. I found that reading things on a screen was part of the problem, so I read things only on paper. I still barely use social media and get my news only through weekly newspaper.

It's a nasty habit to skim read and I hope you'll overcome it.

</comment><comment><USER12> I know what you're talking about and consciously trying to read books again basically repaired my severely atrophied attention span.

There was a period where I sheepishly don't even think I read a single article on HN. Just the title and then straight to the comments.

Retraining myself to be able to sit down and read a book apparently exercised the same muscle that lets me click into internet articles and read the whole thing. I just noticed that after I had a daily book habit for a couple months, I magically was reading articles again at some point.

Of course, sitting down with a book is the whole challenge in the first place. But at least you're away from the laptop and you have a fighting chance.

<comment><USER13> I recently went on vacation. I wanted to really switch off and couldn't bring myself to read non-fiction that engaged my brain.

I hadn't read fiction in more than ten years. The first day by the pool I'd read a page then found my mind wandering. By the end of the first day I had a headache, as if my brain was under strain from stretching an old, unused muscle.

The rest of the vacation I couldn't stop reading. Took the Kindle everywhere, tried to steal any moments away from family to get to the next chapter. Funny how the brain works like that.

The post script is of course I returned from vacation and haven't had the same reading rhythm. Turns out new (old) habits are hard.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> "How do you overcome it?" \- don't.

Lots of other good suggestions on here, but I have some commentary on this problem as well.

I experience the same issue when trying to read with greater concentration. I start out and my brain goes crazy thinking about everything in the known universe. If I stick it out and keep trying to read, in about 10 to 15 minutes I notice that my concentration is restored.

10 - 15 minutes may seem like a hefty price to pay to read with attention, but consider this: the problem described here is very similar to many people's experience with meditation. I believe that this type of mental state is a sort of un-bundling for your brain, and once complete, you can better focus on the task at hand. In my experience, the more reading I do, the less time I spend in this state. By the time I finish a book I can pick it up and immerse myself instantly. Instead of viewing this as "waiting so you can read", try thinking of it as your daily meditation, without really needing to try.

I see this less as an impairment due to your skimming habits, and more of a natural process that many people experience.

</comment><comment><USER15> The book "The Distracted Mind" is a pretty good overview of the science behind this. In terms of how to alleviate distraction, they recommend taking restorative breaks like walking in nature, standing up, making tea, etc. Even looking at pictures of nature can be effective. If you can substitute these breaks for the constant need to flip over to some other novel stimulus, over time you can build up your attention span. (Also, for me, I find meditation can really help build your focus over time. You can start with concentrating fully on your breathing for ten breaths, and work up gradually from there. Even a few very "mindful" breaths can be very effective.)

</comment><comment><USER16> The single greatest (and most-overlooked) reading tech combo for me is a Kobo eReader + Pocket extension.

The browser plugin let's me add any articles I come across. The plugin UX on desktop is painless (one click) and on mobile it shows up through the "share" menu on Android os.

The Kobo can then sync those articles (ad free! Resizable text!). It's a great distraction-free way to read the articles and a great tool if you have certain vision issues. The Kobo can stay offline after it syncs and the battery will last for weeks.

</comment><comment><USER17> I grew up with this disability and was diagnosed with ADHD at a young age. Are you sure that this is something new are are you just more aware of your tendencies with age? Either way, what helps me is the right environment and preparation. I have to make a space that is distraction free and if that isn't possible, I rely on noise canceling headphones or random color visualizations in the background on a separate screen. CBD also really helps calm me down but that is probably because I'm on the spectrum as well..

<comment><USER9> Random color visualizations on a separate screen? Isn't that distracting?

<comment><USER17> Maybe I should explain, I think I misused "random" here. What I benefit from is rhythmic, repetitive patterns. Whether they are visual or audio they seem to really help. For instance, I listen to the same song on repeat for half the day. I guess I meant pick a random visualization that is soothing? Hope that makes sense.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> A quick fix I found for this is to use a text-to-speech plugin for chrome (any text to speech service is fine).

I'm a huge podcast and audiobook fan and found that I couldn't stop skimming when trying to read online. This approach helps me to actually stick to reading the words on the screen without distraction.

By hearing AND reading, I find I'm able to retain the information better and I break the cycle of constantly rereading the first sentence of a large paragraph.

</comment><comment><USER19> Make sure you're disconnected while trying to read. Either a physical book or Kindle.

It helps to ritualize this disconnection by walking to a park or special reading chair.

</comment><comment><USER20> I am developing a little add-on to improve reading comprehension. Firefox : [https://addons.mozilla.org/en- US/firefox/addon/colorify/](https://addons.mozilla.org/en- US/firefox/addon/colorify/) Chrome : [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/colorify/pipnfjhpb...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/colorify/pipnfjhpbdpejoemmkhoglekbjakmnkc)

I'm not sure whether or not it can help you, but it probably have an impact. It colors each sentence in a different color, so you can more easily process chunk by chunk restoring a reward for the brain for having completed a chunk.

It's also very colorful, so it may satiate your brain's novelty appetite.

Please give it a try, and leave me some feedback so I could eventually target this demographic if it's beneficial to them.

Thanks

</comment><comment><USER21> Personally, when this happens I don't panic and think about engaged reading as a habit that I need to reacquire through practice. For example, I recently decided to read some Phillip K. Dick. _A Scanner Darkly_ spent about four weeks on the nightstand. _UbiK_ about two weeks. _Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep_ three nights. At full tilt, I'd have read any of those in a single day. But it doesn't matter. Nobody cares how fast I read. Nobody cares how much I retain. Nobody cares if I don't finish a book. Including me. It's not that I don't prefer to finish books or retain a lot. It's that there are a lot of books that aren't worth reading and a lot of books that are finishable that aren't worth remembering.

</comment><comment><USER22> I followed the Deep Work and power of habit approach.

* Get disconnected from gadget.

* Associate reading with some other task, aka listening to instrumentals. This will trigger you to pick book, get into reading mode.

* Pick or make a reading corner where you don't have any distraction.

* Divide 25-30 mins chunks.

* Eat well, breath and meditate.

</comment><comment><USER23> Keep it simple: be intentional, and practice. Get in the habit of reading long-form works on a regular cadence. You don't need to hoist Proust's _In Search of Lost Time_ into your lap, pen in hand, ready to take notes in the margins. Just grab something interesting to you that you can engage with and be stimulated by. Play some classical or other instrumental music in the background if you prefer. If you have thoughts about the work as you're reading, jot them down and follow up with them later. The point is to make a concerted effort to tune everything else out except the work and your thoughts about it--you can stop to look around the scenery but don't ever take your foot off the gas.

</comment><comment><USER24> Not completely related to your question but this video helped me getting start reading again

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIW5jBrrsS0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIW5jBrrsS0)

</comment><comment><USER25> Try listening to white noise while you read: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzjWIxXBs_s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzjWIxXBs_s)

</comment><comment><USER26> One solution that has helped me is this extension[0] that reads pages using Google Wavenet, which is a very decent AI generated text-to-speech, so it's almost like listening to a lecture in YouTube. It takes a bit to setup but after you do it's working perfectly.

[0]: [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/read-aloud-a- text-...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/read-aloud-a-text-to- spee/hdhinadidafjejdhmfkjgnolgimiaplp)

</comment><comment><USER27> Print it and read in a place without internet access.

</comment><comment><USER28> Try to make sure you don't go past any word that you do not understand.

It really helped me

[https://www.scientology.org/courses/study/overview.html](https://www.scientology.org/courses/study/overview.html)

[http://www.studytechnology.org/10-barr.html](http://www.studytechnology.org/10-barr.html)

</comment><comment><USER29> I used to have this problem. A break from caffeine, forced daily reading, and liberal use of the pomodoro technique pretty much fixed this. It also helped me when I took a several month break from social media and other sites that use machine learning algorithms to maximize engagement.

<comment><USER30> I can second the benefits of Pomodoro for reading. I use it often for work, but I was resistant to structuring reading into chunks. But, after experimentation, I found Pomodoro helped me to maintain focus and get through books without a wandering mind.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> I had this very same problem. I had to just force myself to read. There are no shortcuts.

I started with reading news reports and progressed to books. The one must is that it has to be something you are very interested in reading and you have to do it every day

</comment><comment><USER32> I'm in the same boat.

A friend told me she went cold turkey on reading anything that scrolls. She said it took about three weeks for her brain to come back. Now she's back to reading 600 page books. I've tried but I can only make it a day or two.

</comment><comment><USER33> if you can, create a room which contains no easily accessible electronics. Then go sit there and forbid yourself from leaving for 90 minutes.

After an hour or so of going mildly insane, you should get a good 30 minutes of reading in.

</comment><comment><USER34> Go out into woods with no devices and just said book. Get a few good night's sleep out there. Focus will come back without thinking.

Your brain is tired, and you are getting older. It's natural. Take a vacation.

</comment><comment><USER35> Meditation helps to a degree.</comment>


Snips is a Voice Assistant platform, create your private on-device assistants - <AUTHOR> https://snips.ai <comment><AUTHOR> I'm a co-founder of Snips, we are building a private-by-design Voice Assistant platform which allows companies and makers to build a smart assistant 100% on- device.

Why do we do this? We want assistants of the future to respect user privacy, and not stream your voice or your most important questions to servers that you do not control.

With Snips, 100% of what we do runs on the device (the platform ships for Raspberry Pi, more platforms are available for entreprise customers, email@example.com)

We are using state-of-the-art deep-learning Automated Speech Recognition and Natural Language Understanding to allow makers to plug a voice assistant in their device in 5 minutes.

We are actually benchmarked our NLP and are outperforming most of the commercially available NLU providers: [https://medium.com/snips- ai/benchmarking-natural-language-un...](https://medium.com/snips- ai/benchmarking-natural-language-understanding-systems-google-facebook- microsoft-and-snips-2b8ddcf9fb19)</comment>


Welcome to island marketing - <AUTHOR> http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2009/07/welcome-to-island-marketing.html <comment><USER2> hm. I think the article is somewhat unclear; I agree that all your customers can now see everything anyone has ever said about you, but that doesn't mean you need to (or should) attempt to close every sale.

Saying "I'm sorry, I can't help you right now." when you can't, I think is pretty important; You can't be all things to all people.

On the other hand, while loosing some sales is fine, pissing off those lost sales is not. Seth is right that all your interactions are now with people who are connected to all your other potential customers. I find that recommending competitors when I encounter customers I can not profitably serve results in those (non) customers saying good things about me.</comment>


Prison Architect, a gaming crowdfunding success story - <AUTHOR> http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2015/10/prison_architect_s_crowdfunding_proves_the_kickstarter_model_for_video_games.single.html <comment><USER2> A bit of an off-topic rant, but:

I think the author is wrong to dismiss Ian Bogost's article as "as an opportunity to ignore gameplay in order to pontificate on race and show off the Foucault they read in college". The author is probably unfamiliar with Bogost, and also misunderstands that Bogost's article in The Atlantic about _Prison Architect_ isn't a game review. I found the analysis of the game and how it relates to cultural perceptions of imprisonment in America (and the world, really) very interesting.

It's political and it's about games-as-culture. It's not a shopping recommendation, and I think this is what the author of TFA misunderstood.

<comment><USER3> Games are sadly just on the cusp of developing a true arts culture - but we have yet to move out of the consumer mentality, where the only value of a game is if you were entertained by it at your most base level. It also doesn't help that a lot of internet commentators can't distinguish between someone criticizing something they like and personal attacks.

<comment><USER4> Games are frequently something that most instances of arts culture struggle with - commercial. This means that trying to treat games as artistic artifacts, made of beauty and aesthetics, free of the drudgery of economics, is a misguided thing at best.

Games are not generally produced as solely artistic works. The economic aspect is significant. Attempting to discuss and critique games as solely artistic artifacts means missing one of largest influences on any such artifact. It's like discussing architecture without admitting that materials and physics and humans impose limits.

<comment><USER5> Not just the economic aspect, but the game aspect. Board games and role- playing games have been around much longer, and aren't considered art (and there doesn't seem to be any push for them to be considered as such).

<comment><AUTHOR> [EDIT] Why is my parent being downvoted? It is a legitimate question, and we should try to answer it.

Yet there are a lot of board and roleplaying games pushing their boundaries regarding theme and mechanics:

You have boardgames exploring difficult themes (Train[0]) and others being defined as they are played (Fluxx[1])

On RPGs, You can have rpgs about simple themes as being a housecat (Cat RPG[2]) or serious one like rape and domestic violence[3]. In terms of mechanics, there is Dread[4], a horror game that uses a Jenga tower instead of dice.

There is no push to be considered art, but there are folks doing some really cool stuff with the medium.

What is happenning with videogames is that there are people who thing "videogames should grow up" and "stop playing around". That, in my opinion, is stupid. You don't tell a 15 years kid to "grow up". It will come out naturally. KLEt games mature on their own.

[0] [http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2009/06/24/can-you-make-a- boa...](http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2009/06/24/can-you-make-a-board-game- about-the-holocaust-meet-train/)

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluxx](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluxx)

[2] [http://johnwickpresents.com/product/cat-a-little-game- about-...](http://johnwickpresents.com/product/cat-a-little-game-about-little- heroes/)

[3] sorry, the internet failed me :(

[4][https://dreadthegame.wordpress.com/about-dread-the- game/](https://dreadthegame.wordpress.com/about-dread-the-game/)

<comment><USER5> Actually, Train was the first thing that came to my mind when typing that comment. The fact that we both immediately thought of the same niche game that apparently has only been played twice without it's creator present suggests that these things aren't terribly common (that's not to say that these edge cases aren't interesting). But maybe a die hard board gamer can correct me, since there tends to be a lot of interesting stuff that goes unnoticed (this is definitely true for video games, I'd be surprised if it wasn't true for other games).

The people who seem to be pushing for games to grow up or talking about Citizen Kane moments (and seemingly forgetting about silent films) seem more interested in validation than anything else. There have been interesting games for decades; if they're truly interested in these, all they have to do is play them.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> 19 million? For a game developed by just two guys (iirc) over the span of two years, that's hitting the jackpot. I'm seeing several projects that make a lot of money for a little effort - DayZ comes to mind, an early access game that costs $35 and has sold millions of copies already, but still feels like a rather bad mod, with little development effort going into it (seemingly).

I'm still on the fence about Star Citizen; the demos they've shown so far are promising, but I'm going to wait until there's an actual game.

In contrast, there's Elite: Dangerous, which had a successful kickstarter at about 1.5 million, was built and released, and is still under active development, with few bugs to speak of (atm, experiences from retail version over half a year after first release)

<comment><USER7> Don't forget minecraft which finally sold to microsoft for 2b. Developed by one guy (then he added employees after the game took off).

These are all exceptions to the brutal world of indie game development.

Mostly, these developers don't make anything. They spend months and years in almost solitude making something no one will play. Games take a huge time investment to make before anyone is at all interested.

It's the starving artist profession of the nerd world.

<comment><USER8> >>> Mostly, these developers don't make anything. They spend months and years in almost solitude making something no one will play. Games take a huge time investment to make before anyone is at all interested. It's the starving artist profession of the nerd world.

Yeah, the Indiepocalypse.

The thing is, a lot of indie games... simply are not fun to play. And that's ok, it's hard to make a game which is fun to play. It's fine. [0]

You can treat indie games as a hobby, just have fun, call it 'starving art', whatever, but don't be shocked that people are not paying money.

On other hand, treat it like a business, with a solid product, market research, plenty of feedback from the outside (echo chamber is no good for a product that you are working on for years), marketing plan and some marketing budget. Even then, you have a chance of failure, where failure is that the revenue does not cover the costs. However, the odds are more in your favor.

These two extremely distinct segments (hobby v business) are both under the 'indie' label, however, their chances at succeeding are extremely different.

[0] I won't even talk about the platformers (there are dozens, if not hundreds, of them released every week) and they all are largely the same.

<comment><USER7> It's true that there are two kinds of game development going on. I wouldn't call the mostly mobile, metrics driven game dev 'indie' but at the same time that kind of game development has a lot to do with the same business model.

These metrics driven developers risk more cash up front and take less creative risks. Like a Hollywood movies, they pick a genre that is already successful and twist it a little. They likely even spend more on marketing than on production.

Still, even those games (like hollywood movies) remain hit driven so you'd better have a big budget backer to smooth out the edges.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> > while Tim Schafer's Broken Age ran over budget, needed to be split in half, > and delivered a disappointing final product.

Speak for yourself, quite a few adventure game fans don't agree with it delivering a disappointing product. And there are quite a few more success stories... Broken Sword 5, Tesla Effect, Resonance, Shadowrun Dragonfall, ...

It's true that there are conflicts with Kickstarters due to the fact that most backers do not really understand how hard it is to estimate Software Developments (especially in games, refining gameplay and puzzles until it become fun is by definition not something that can be estimated accurately) and game developers that suddenly have to take on the role of PR which the publishers used to do. But overall, there's been more than a few success stories.

</comment><comment><USER10> It's more than just how you play the kickstarter crowd. Introversion have a knack of writing really playable games. Darwinia was incredible.

<comment><USER11> Not just playable games, but also games that are different from the usual stuff you see. Was there any hacking type games like Uplink before Introversion released it?

<comment><AUTHOR> I agree.

Darwinia was a shooter/strategy game set inside virtual world.

Even Defcon is unconventional. A game about nuclear war and mutual assured destruction with a retro asthetic.

<comment><USER8> >>> Even Defcon is unconventional. A game about nuclear war and mutual assured destruction with a retro asthetic

Don't forget the soundtrack! It added a lot to the game atmosphere :)

<comment><USER12> Especially the woman in the background who starts to weep as the first missiles hit their targets.

<comment><USER8> The weeping woman, the cough. Damn I am so tempted to play it again (does it make me a heartless psycho?), but I am at work :(

This is a great example of how some well though out details can play a massive role. Would the game be the same without the soundtrack, with the sounds of crying and coughing? It still would be a good game but not THAT good.

<comment><USER13> > but I am at work :(

You do realise that you are talking about the game with a work panic button built in, right?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> OP here.

I feel in the last years we're having a resurgence of management/simulation games.

Just like Will Wright did his own SimCities, SimFarms, SimLifes, etc., new developers are returning to these themes.

We need more of these freeform interactive management sandboxes. We have Prision Architect. Rollercoaster Tycoon is coming back. Bring back Theme hospital and the histrical city-builder! Let's open our arms for new management games in new unconventional contexts. (Boon Hill is a graveyard simulator. How cool is that?)

<comment><USER14> Game Dev Tycoon is one of my favorites ([http://www.greenheartgames.com/app/game-dev- tycoon/](http://www.greenheartgames.com/app/game-dev-tycoon/))

Kerbal Space Program also fits into this trend. It's a little interesting that this is pretty much all indie Steam games - the AAA publishers haven't pivoted to start chasing this demographic again yet.

<comment><USER15> Except for EA (that bought Maxis) Sim games were never big on AAA market.

For example Roller Coaster Tycoon was created by a single guy, that made the game in Assembly (yes, almost 100% of RCT1 is ASM), he ended getting "publishers" in the sense they sold the game for him, but the game is still his.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> > Crowdfunding has failed to revolutionize video games.

How can he say that? A good 1/3 or so of the new games on Steam are crowdfunded nowadays. This shows a viable new way to go about funding your game. That's pretty "revolutionary".

</comment><comment><USER17> I've been playing a lot of it the past two weeks. Its very addictive like the old roller coaster tycoon games.

<comment><USER18> The new RCT is coming out soon too. I think if you preorder you can play the beta on October 30.

<comment><USER19> No preorders.

Well, unless you want to, then that's fine.</comment></comment></comment>


Introducing: JSHTML - <AUTHOR> http://james.padolsey.com/javascript/introducing-jshtml/

<comment><USER2> "It just looks ugly."

A little, yeah.

"This looks a little better:"

Insanity. That's the only explanation. The second example is worse in _every_ way, as far as I can see.

</comment><comment><USER3> If you're embedding the HTML inside the document at render time, why not just render it straight up without the comments? If you want the HTML fragment to appear only when JavaScript is present, include style="display: none" at first, and set display = 'block' after onload.

This could be useful as a mini-templating engine for JavaScript but the article doesn't talk about that. I'd still be concerned about the performance impact of parsing HTML every time a partial page update is applied.

</comment><comment><USER4> What are the benefits of this compared to showing hidden divs, which can be done in one line of code with a CSS selector?

<comment><USER5> The argument is progressive enhancement: if someone doesn't have JavaScript or CSS enabled the JavaScript-enabled features would be completely hidden from view, plus you get to keep your HTML in your HTML file.

<comment><USER3> I can see how someone might turn your external style sheets off, but an inline style="display:none" attribute is not going to be ignored by any browsers. What's so inaccessible about that?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Interesting idea for keeping your HTML in one place, but the advantages are marginal over the alternatives (i.e. CSS abuse or inlining your HTML in JavaScript).

<comment><USER6> Plus, you'll have a brief flash of content before the comment markup is appended to their respective parent nodes - especially if you wait for the dom to be loaded... And searching through the entire dom tree, finding each content, and then parsing each content for delimeters etc? Seems like overkill....</comment></comment>


Subtraction: Spacing Is Everything - <AUTHOR> http://www.subtraction.com/archives/2008/0617_spacing_is_e.php <comment><USER2> Gmail does look cramped and unpleasant in Safari. The difference between Safari's rendering and Firefox's on Windows is almost as significant as the changes the author of this article made.

</comment><comment><USER3> The flash on that page is in the top 10 worst uses of flash evar.</comment>


Music a 'mega-vitamin' for the brain - <AUTHOR> http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/06/02/music.therapy/index.html?iref=mpstoryview <comment><USER2> Speaking of music as a tool for finding new pathways in the brain, I had a professor in college who had a serious stuttering problem. So, rather than talk (and stutter), he sang. All the time. Actually, it was more of a sing- song speech pattern, but he didn't stutter when doing it, and it took me quite a while to figure out why he talked that way (and having occasion to see him stutter a couple of times when not doing the sing-song voice).

This led to an interesting side effect, that I always enjoyed. Because he had a sort of steady sing-song tone, his voice was somewhat static...it wasn't obvious when he was emphasizing something. This had the most profound effect when he told jokes, which he did quite a bit. Unless you were really paying close attention, you'd completely miss that he'd told a joke. All but the most obvious of his jokes went unnoticed by all but me and the girl who sat next to me at the back of the class. So, we would occasionally get odd looks for laughing out loud for no apparent reason. I always wanted to make him a flag with the word "Joke!" on it, that he could wave when making jokes. But I wasn't sure if he'd find it funny or offensive.

</comment><comment><USER3> Yes, the right music can _definitely_ help me break out of a stuck point in coding - right up there with endorphin-stimulating exercise. It certainly can be a mood booster and hence motivator when long stretches of linear/analytical thinking gets bogged down. YMMV.</comment>


Childish behaviour - <AUTHOR> http://holdenweb.blogspot.com/2011/07/childish-behavior.html

<comment><USER2> Political correctness aside, names like 'pantyshot' and 'upskirt' do pose a practical problem: search results about these terms have the risk of being NSFW, and might be even blocked by your company's firewall.

</comment><comment><USER3> The main reason I don't like the name upskirt is that it led to me wasting precious brain-seconds trying to work out in what sense it was a pun on 'Markdown,' after the fashion of 'Discount,' and so on.

Obviously it turns out that it isn't a pun at all. I had assumed that the pun would excuse the sexist connotations of upskirt, that it would be an amusing bait-and-switch manoeuvre, that the author wanted to be able to say, "Hey, you thought I was being misogynistic, but in fact the error was yours when you failed to recognise my magnificently subtle wordplay, you philistine! Sexist? Me? How dare you leap to such conclusions!"

In fact all they wanted to do was evoke images of sexual assault. How disappointing.

EDIT: An interesting thought: would upskirt be an acceptable name for a portscanner/banner-scraper? I think perhaps it would, but it would open the doors to a whole area of _extremely_ distasteful names for pentesting tools in general.

</comment><comment><USER4> Googling Misaka - the new name chosen - made me despair. Its like the author wants another sly chuckle at his towering maturity.

<comment><USER5> Misaka is just a Japanese name.. dun see anything wrong with it.

<comment><USER6> I can't say getting the reference makes me feel very mature but, Misaka is an anime heroine with psychic powers... that uses shorts under her skirt.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> If you want to have your packages used in a buttoned-up corporate environment, you had better use more professional names.

If you want your community to be acceptable for such an environment (ie, you want to see that awesome technology stack in the company rather than the latest blandware), you should put pressure on your community to be _at least marginally acceptable_.

</comment><comment><USER8> Does everything sexual have to be the bastion of _men_?

Does everything sexual at a woman's expense have to be misogynist by implication?

Does everything sexual have to be juvenile?

Is this how the international population perceives sexual interactions and situations?

<comment><USER9> > Does everything sexual have to be the bastion of men?

No, but this was

> Does everything sexual at a woman's expense have to be misogynist by > implication?

Yes. The clue is in the phrase "at a woman's expense". Does everything invoking female sexuality have to be misogynistic? No.

> Does everything sexual have to be juvenile?

No. But inappropriate sexuality (ie: naming a software library after sexual assault) is juvenile.

<comment><USER8> I don't disagree with the conclusions reached by the article nor the Cheesebox board. I disagree with their arguments though.

\--

Misogynistic isn't defined as "sexuality at a woman's expense". It isn't defined as anything that makes one feel discomforted.

It is _hatred_ and _dislike_ onto women. Even if something is inappropriate or childish or disgusting or any number of epithets that you can tack onto it, it is _not_ automatically misogynistic simply because it relates to women.

Using heighten terminology out of place cheapens the terminology and makes it lose the caustic impact that rightly should have.

\--

Secondly, inappropriate sexuality is not juvenile. Inappropriate sexuality is often _illegal_ , and I wouldn't characterize that as being something expected from children.

I suspect people want to call it juvenile in order to have a way to publicly shame those who practice it.

In their (and perhaps your too) zeal to censure others, you've created an odd situation wherein:

1\. The situation is called misogynist---aka evil.

2\. The situation is called childish.

So misogynistic is childish now? Or is it the reverse: are children misogynistic then grow out of it?

\--

See this is why I don't agree with the arguments as used. They're the arguments of a firebrand or a demagogue---not a logician.

<comment><USER10> _See this is why I don't agree with the arguments as used. They're the arguments of a firebrand or a demagogue---not a logician._

I find that statement ironic, given the fact that your own argument has a glaring logical fallacy in it:

 _1\. The situation is called misogynist---aka evil.

2\. The situation is called childish.

So misogynistic is childish now? Or is it the reverse: are children misogynistic then grow out of it?_

1\. My computer is a laptop.

2\. My computer has 4 USB ports.

So all laptops have 4 USB ports? Or is it the reverse: are all computers with 4 USB ports called laptops?

I hope this serves to illustrate the point that "P and Q" is not the same as "P implies Q" nor "Q implies P".

<comment><USER8> In a P and Q situation, the appopriate thing to do is what I did: ask for precision. Does P imply Q? Does Q imply P? What is the relationship between the two.

This is especially relevant when P and Q have diverging connotations. Usually one would expect not to say something is both misogynistic and childish. The meanings are not completely orthogonal.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Related: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2687372>

</comment><comment><USER12> It seemed like the author was just trying to please people while being apathetic to the whole thing. This isn't an issue of censorship, people who want the library and all references of it online to be removed are trying to censor the author. If you own a repo and choose not to host someone's project because of an offensive name, that's fair. It's not stopping the project from being hosted elsewhere. Plenty of programming forums will ask a user to change his name if it's reported as offensive, it's the same thing. It's not stopping him form still participating in the community nor is it censorship because if he chooses to post the same thing under the same name somewhere else he's welcome to.

If they want to continue hosting the project under the original name, fine, if they want to ask him to change the name, fine, but hiding behind "free speech" is ridiculous.

</comment><comment><USER13> Much milder - but I always got a chuckle over the pornview program - a nice little program to view whole directories of photos under Debian.

Quite possibly not the best for the job but a name stuck in memory.

<comment><USER14> That reminds me: I'm not sure if it's still the case, but I recall that the image decoding library written for Mozilla was called "libpr0n". Pretty high profile, and I imagine many people might consider it inappropriate.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> This is discussion is interesting. Are there any women that care to comment? It seems that, as of now, the commentary is coming from men deciding how women should feel.

<comment><USER16> Woman here. I don't offend easily though...

If I were to come across this library as something that I wanted to use, it would probably merit a sigh or a shake of my head. I'd also be more likely to dismiss the whole library as a joke since the name seemed to be a (not very wise) joke, and I would look for something of better quality.

I wouldn't hold it against the host of the library, though, unless they were actively promoting it or something. There will always be bad apples in every community. As long as they're on the fringe I don't think the community as a whole should be judged by them.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> I will never understand why some people have such a need to control the language of others. When that need starts being given serious consideration organization - regardless of the "think of the X" logic being thrown around - it's a really bad sign.

<comment><USER18> Oh come on. It's PSF's shop. Their catalog. Their speech. Their freedom.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Boy never grow up; their toys just get more expensive.

</comment><comment><USER20> So many open source developers code stuff for fun and calling their projects something like "fucking simple fuzzer".

When I write something for fun I want to name it something fun and I don't care what other thinks, whether they can find it in their Google or not, the point was writing the code and if I can't give a lovely name to my own projects what's it good for? If you find it offensive for you taste don't use it. An open source repository that tries to police this kind of stuff is just ridiculous unless there is a legal issue.

Who finds "upskirt" offensive? It's childish, yeah, offensive, I don't think so. If a woman decides to not work on open source projects because she finds that a library named "upskirt", that's her problem.

<comment><USER21> I think it is attitudes like this that stop women and others from participating. I am against censoring but I am for self-policing and being sensitive to others. So it is not about someone coming and bashing you on the head, it is about you hopefull realizing that you are hurting the community and just change the name of the project voluntarily.

If you were a nerd in high-school (I know I was) remember how it felt sometimes if you tried to fit in with the jocks because perhaps you wanted to give some sport a try, but everyone kept making fun of skinny-know-it-all- glasses-wearing-nerd jokes around you? They would think it is fun, and not offensive, but you as a skinny-glasses-wearing-nerd would feel singled out and rejected.

<comment><USER22> _> I think it is attitudes like this that stop women and others from participating. _

Perhaps as an excuse, but rather not as a real reason.

Upskirt's original author is a woman alright: Natacha Porté, a.k.a. `the lady of markdown'.

<comment><USER23> If you read the OP, you'd see that there's a strong implication that the original author of libupskirt did not understand the connotations of upskirt when she agreed to the name

"My personal distate for these particular names is heightened because it appears that the original libupskirt author's acceptance on trust of a foreign-language name for her library has caused her considerable discomfort and possibly harassment. She apparently no longer wishes to work on open source."

<comment><USER24> That makes me more upset than the original story.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>