Goodbye to an old friend: 1-800-GOOG-411 - <AUTHOR> http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/10/goodbye-to-old-friend-1-800-goog-411.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FMKuf+%28Official+Google+Blog%29 <comment><USER2> Just a note- The company I used to work for, 1800 Free 411 is still around, and makes a pretty decent alternative. Free411 is ad supported, and doesn't have call completion, but otherwise its a pretty decent stand-in.

<comment><USER3> And then there's 1-800-BING-411 (1-800-246-4411) which used to be called something like 1-800-Tell-Me. I prefer g __gle's sms-based service. I've also tried ChaCha.com (txt 242-242) where humans respond instead of software but the service has declined from my experience over the passed couple years.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> This is sad because this is one of the only technologies my mom is comfortable with using. She uses this service on almost a daily basis. When I called her and told her about this story, she asked if there was some way to call them up and complain about it. I know Google is notorious for not having very good customer service, but does anyone know if there is a number she could call?

<comment><USER5> Google is (believe it or not) working on being more accessible to customers, but no, right now, there isn't a number she can call. It's sad that people like your mom are disappointed, and there are plenty more like her out there, but calling up isn't going to change anything :(

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I think Google are actually really brave to do this and I for one am proud of them. Lots of corporate companies keep around products in zombie states for years because they are afraid of shutting stuff down and upsetting customers.

Google provides lots of free services and I think it's awesome that they try stuff, innovate and then pull out when it's not working for them.

I think it's good they gave everyone a month's notice and provided a txt based alternative. It would have been nice if they'd also pointed to some voice alternatives provided by "competitors" though.

<comment><USER7> The flip side of course is that it becomes dangerous if you rely on any of Google's free services. An extreme example, but what happens if GMail isn't profitable enough? Maybe Adsense for content isn't pulling it's weight any more (if it ever has)?

411 was a fairly useful service, and while shutting it down is probably the right business move, it pushes me more and more to move my primary email account and diversifying my advertising.

<comment><USER8> The rumor I always heard was that 411 was only around to stress-test their voice recognition backend. It really wasn't delivering ads or anything of revenue to them.

<comment><USER7> I've also heard rumors that Gmail and Adsense for Content aren't particularly profitable for Google. Of course I've also heard that the brand equity created with Gmail is very valuable and those two are extreme examples, but even based on similar rumors it's possible Google could shut down either one.

<comment><USER8> I don't think Gmail would get shut down since it's a part of Google Apps, a paid service. Unless _that_ turns out to be a burden on the company...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Well this stinks both because I used it all the time, and it completely shuts out non-smartphone users from those services.

<comment><USER10> Better ask for your money back, then.

Okay, to be serious though: this service never made it to Canada so I only got to use it once while visiting the USA. It sounded pretty cool and I know you'll miss it.

Seeing as this is HN, though, this is an obvious opening for a startup right? I mean, Google clearly doesn't think the service was worthwhile but much of HN is lamenting its loss.

<comment><USER11> Goog 411 was in Canada for 2 years.

[http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/article692565...](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/article692565.ece)

<comment><USER10> What?! Wow, I missed that entirely :(

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> This was planned from day one, Google only wanted the massive data set that they collected to improve voice recognition in other areas. Rather than buy it via another channel they acquired this data set with this service.

</comment><comment><USER8> Maybe those GE phones will go on closeout?

[http://www.amazon.com/28213EE1-Advanced-Cordless- Directory-A...](http://www.amazon.com/28213EE1-Advanced-Cordless-Directory- Assistance/dp/B0017YT36A)

</comment><comment><USER13> Used this a number of times in a pinch. It'll definitely be missed. Makes me want a smartphone a little more.

<comment><USER14> Same here. Though I much prefer the Star-Trek-like, simple voice interface to interacting with a smartphone.

There should be more voice apps like GOOG 411, not less.

<comment><USER15> Android 2.1 is pretty damn close. 2.2 seemed to be a little worse.

Main example: it used to be if you had someone's address in your contacts, you could hold down the search button until the voice search prompt came up, then say "Navigate to <person's name> and it would pull up Google Navigation on that person's address.

Around 2.2 Google seems to have removed the ability to search your contacts from Google Maps. I'm not sure if this is a bug or a decision that searching your own contacts won't generate ad revenue. In any case, what happens now is it gives you a popup of search results for that name in your vicinity and asks you to choose, usually there are like 20.

<comment><USER16> Workaround, if you just say their name, it will pull up their contact info and you can tap the address there.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Oh well, no more free phone calls that you sign up as businesses on goog411. It was fun while it lasted.

</comment><comment><USER18> Oh no. How am I supposed to legally look up an address while driving now?

<comment><USER19> 1-800-FREE411 is still going strong.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Seems to be more proof that the telephone is becoming legacy -- the least important part of a "smartphone" is the phone.

<comment><USER10> I own an iPhone 3G and I _really wish_ that my carrier (Rogers) would let me get rid of all phone-related services. I don't want or need them. Internet in my pocket is really the important part. And if I want to talk, send my voice through the data channels!

Same with TV; I don't own one, but I wish the cable companies would kill a few shitty cable TV channels and use that bandwidth for Internet data instead.

<comment><USER21> Hmm ... maybe you should get an iPod Touch with a MiFi. Or, of course, perhaps Apple will eventually make an iPod Touch with a sim card like the iPad 3G. If it did that with the same data price plans, that would be really great.

<comment><USER21> Now why in the world would that get downvoted? Is that not a reasonable suggestion? Sometimes HN confuses me...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> My parents got into an argument for getting lost locating a restaurant. We were going to head home so I pulled out my cellphone and used goog411 to contact the restaurant and ask for directions. It was located around the corner from where we were driving around.

That place was delicious.

<comment><USER23> Cool story, bro.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> Haven't used it for a while but I have fond memories of that silly fetch audio and trying to convince the system i mean Tom Thumb not Tom Tom Asian Grill.

</comment><comment><USER25> Never used GOOG-411, I've always found the GOOGLE text service more convenient, but its strange to see them shut it down. I guess not that many users?

</comment><comment><USER26> TANSTAAFL

I try to keep this in mind with respect to all "free" products, including others from Google. E.g. Google Apps Standard: Nice while it lasts, but don't invest in its sticking around.

<comment><USER27> Google Apps Standard might be different. Google Apps Standard is offering you the same thing that Google already offers for free, just using your own domain. It still has ads and such. As such, as long as Gmail, Google Calendar, etc. remain profitable, then Gmail for your domain, Google Calendar for your domain, etc. should have the same level of profitability (and cost). The additional service that Google is offering via Google Apps Standard is the ability to use your own domain which really doesn't cost Google.

GOOG-411 wasn't ad supported so they didn't make any money off of it. It seemed like it was being run in order to collect voice data to create better speech recognition algorithms. Now that many have smartphones, they're getting that data in a cheaper way and, ultimately, in a way that they can monetize easier. Rather than paying 800-number charges for everyone to call into (and pay while the call was connected), people are using their iPhone and Android devices to give Google voice data.

I think Google Voice is the more likely service to get canned. Phone charges can become burdensome while bandwidth is essentially free when you're Google's size (since I'm guessing they're working off peering agreements more than buying bandwidth). Even if they were buying bandwidth, bandwidth is something with lots of competitors and very low regulatory charges. Phone connections are different.

<comment><USER26> Whether it's Apps Standard, or Voice, or something else. I meant my point more generally; if you aren't paying for it, somebody is, and they may decide to stop.

Apps Standard has been on my mind because it is currently a useful solution for a few small businesses I know, but I caution them about becoming over- reliant.

(I've argued the cost efficiency of Premier, but they are watching every nickle and dime, at present. Hopefully, if the free Standard version does go away, Premier or similar will remain -- I mean, Google's been been engaging in large, long term Apps contracts with outfits quite capable of "lawyering up" -- and at a price that is manageable.

I know: I'd just plunk down the money, for something that is business critical. But, it's not my call. Their initial use is not business critical, but that's a slippery slope.)

P.S. I haven't researched nor thought it through, but my perception of Voice has been as a partial workaround and/or escape hatch for carrier lock in. For the time being, it helps keep the pressure on.

Longer term? Well, rumors are that Google has invested in a LOT of backbone capacity. Voice may be a step in capturing interactive content transfer, and the advertising/marketing niches that exist both within it and from analysis of resulting meta-data. It may also offer some direct revenue; they already charge (U.S. customers) for foreign calls.

Hmm... will Google roll out a SIP telecommunications service, at some point, to go along with their professional Apps offers? (Maybe the regulation would be far too hairy; otherwise, it would seem a likely cross marketing opportunity, at least until such communications become more fully integrated into a more general communications paradigm, if ever.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> Did their old site say this was in beta? I guess I shouldn't of told the 7000 employees at my company to use this last year.

</comment><comment><USER29> This stings. I love this service.

</comment><comment><USER30> bing 411

<comment><USER30> <http://www.discoverbing.com/mobile/411/>

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> Isn't this just the wireless carriers getting their way?

</comment><comment><USER32> Just heard about it this morning. All I can say is, damn :(

On the bright side, they integrated it into google maps for mobile, and it's pretty slick. Now if only I had a data plan.

</comment><comment><USER33> This is a sad thing Google. :(</comment>


The First Complete Map of the Ocean Floor Is Stirring Controversial Waters - <AUTHOR> http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/first-complete-map-ocean-floor-stirring-controversial-waters-180963993/?no-ist <comment><USER2> I have actually worked in bathymetric survey projects in 4 different continents, and I can tell you there is a good reason why the ocean floor hasnt been mapped yet.

For one its cost. A single survey ship (their rates are cheap now due to low oil prices), cost about USD30000 a day, A single ROV (>5k a day), ROV crew, divers, backup ROV(yes there needs to be 2 ROV's) why? one needs to recover the other in deepwater, ships crew, the survey crew etc... all usually comes to about 50k-70k a day in cost (and this is being really conservative). I am not including cost of bunkering (refueling the ship), crew transport to location, rotations, food, water, waste disposal etc and the list goes on. If you take USD100000 a day at an average of 60miles a day in length and probably a mile width, USD18.5 mil would probably not cover much of a distance. Dont forget the cost of processors to process the multibeam data (yes multibeam provides higher resolution because it collects more data points), the mappers- charters, engineers etc...etc. Just the cost alone is enough to put most people off. There is a reason why MH370 couldnt be found, and the cost was enormous that they had to call of the search.

<comment><USER3> This is insane $30K a day just for a boat?! Wow

You'd think with "drone technology" you could just send these things out there and have it surface and beam back images by satellite. Sphere designs. Haha just a ball that sinks to the bottom of the ocean.

What about sea floor changes how long would these maps be valid for? Anyway that's crazy.

Won't be deploying my gold-finding crabs anytime soon.

<comment><USER4> >This is insane $30K a day just for a boat?! Wow

Specialized vessels (e.g. heavy crane ships, pipelay) can cost 250k-500k per day. A smaller survey vessel will obviously be much cheaper, but there's crew to pay, operating costs, specialized labor costs (ROV engineers, scientists), logistics, fuel, etc. It all adds up.

>You'd think with "drone technology" you could just send these things out there

Autonomous underwater vehicles (AUVs) that aren't tethered to a ship are in wide use. However, you still need a ship to deploy, maintain, etc.

Here's an article: [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0025322714...](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0025322714000747)

<comment><USER3> Thanks this stuff is awesome. Like that one drone that was caught by a fishing net.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> What will the resolution be? If it's fairly detailed, I could see this turning into a Google Maps for armchair treasure hunters searching for lost vessels. Who knows how many ships/planes are down there.

Edit: Looks like they're aiming for ~100m resolution. They specifically mention the search for Malaysia Flight MH370 as an example for the need for adequate ocean floor mapping.

[https://seabed2030.gebco.net/documents/seabed_2030_roadmap_v...](https://seabed2030.gebco.net/documents/seabed_2030_roadmap_v10_low.pdf)

<comment><USER6> How is the US government allowing this?

I'd be willing to wager we have some under water assets that we don't necessarily want to be discovered.

<comment><USER7> Who gives a fuck what the US government 'allows'? This is highly arrogant and entitled thinking.

<comment><USER8> >Who gives a fuck what the US government 'allows'?

Iraq and Afghanistan, for starters. If the US doesn't allow something and you do it anyway, you tend to come up with a nasty case of Dead.

<comment><USER9> Those two wars were different from one another, in respects that are/should be central to your argument, like the UN's role.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> The article makes it sound as though the seafloor is virtually unknown outside of areas surveyed with multibeam sonar, which is a relatively small fraction of the seafloor. In fact, other technologies have been used to map the entire planet to a resolution of 15-60 arc second resolution (roughly 500-2000m). See [http://topex.ucsd.edu/WWW_html/srtm30_plus.html](http://topex.ucsd.edu/WWW_html/srtm30_plus.html) for one such widely used, freely available dataset. What multibeam provides over extant dataset such as that one is much higher resolution.

<comment><USER11> At a resolution like that, a major city would be 20-50 pixels across. It's likely great for tracking large geological features, but still must miss a lot of interesting and important things.

<comment><USER9> Maybe we can let the prior assumption, that there are more geological features than cities on the seabed, do some work?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> No mention of the impact on marine life of this blanket of sonar... Maybe I'm too environmentally concerned, but it would seem a bit foolish to do something like this without having a pretty solid understanding of what negative impact it could have.

<comment><USER13> You are absolutely right. In fact, multibeam sonar use for sea floor mapping was connected to a devastating mass stranding in Madagascar [http://www.ifaw.org/united-states/news/whale-mass- stranding-...](http://www.ifaw.org/united-states/news/whale-mass-stranding- attributed-sonar-mapping-first-time)

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> If you want a good idea how deep is the deepest part of the ocean (Mariana Trench), look up in the sky and find a jet flying at full altitude (37,000 feet).

That is how deep.

<comment><USER15> How can you tell if a jet is flying at full altitude? Is it actually visible?

<comment><USER14> Good question. I've seen passenger jets get pretty small to the eye sometimes, and they don't tend to go higher than 37,000 feet.

Alternatively, if you've ever flown across the country, mid-flight, look down.

<comment><USER16> The flight I took from the US back to Europe was at 42000 feet. Not that the difference in altitude matters much.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> The article mentions the USS San Francisco, but I think the details are interesting. They highlight how little we know.

The San Francisco, a nuclear attack submarine, operating at flank speed at a depth of 525 feet, collided with an underwater mountain. Extensive damage, 98 crew injured, one dead.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_San_Francisco_(SSN-711)#Co...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_San_Francisco_\(SSN-711\)#Collision_with_seamount)

<comment><USER18> Claim was mountain, rumor was another sub...

<comment><USER19> UK and French ballistic missile subs have collided:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Vanguard_and_Le_Triomphant...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Vanguard_and_Le_Triomphant_submarine_collision)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> >It's a common sentiment among Earth scientists—often a lament—that we know more about other planets in the solar system than we do our own. Indeed, astronomers have a more complete topographical understanding of the moon, Mars, ex-planet Pluto and the dwarf planet Ceres than we do of the seabed. This is shocking, because the topography of the seafloor plays such a huge role in keeping the planet habitable—a role we need to fully understand in order to predict what the future of our climate holds.

>The reason we have no comprehensive map is dumbfoundingly simple, considering that we've traversed and charted our solar system: "It's not so easy to map the ocean, because the water is in the way," says Jakobsson.

</comment><comment><USER21> and there are military applications as navigating near the sea floor is greatly facilitated by having accurate maps. I am a bit surprised this isn't an NGA effort.

<comment><USER22> But why would the military share those maps with the public? After all, that would facilitate military applications by the enemy. Much better to quietly make the maps and not tell anyone.

<comment><USER23> Same reason they share GPS?

<comment><USER22> To avoid navigational errors and save civilian lives, and presumably to make everyone depended on US-operated satellites (at least the last one is probably the reason why Russia and the EU both now operate their own system)?

Honestly, I struggle to find any reasoning on why GPS is shared with the world beyond "Korean Air Lines 007 crashed, so Pres. Reagan made GPS free to (save the world|gain political capital). Later we removed the civilian precision restriction because that's cheaper than maintaining it", which I find a bit weak. Maybe somebody can enlighten me

<comment><USER24> How much value has Google and similar created with GPS.

It slowed the need for other countries to put their own up.

The satellites were not a secret

Their encryption scheme was probably already cracked, so might as well open it anyways.

<comment><USER25> It wasn't so much Google. The big players lobbying for the civilian degradation to be turned off in the late 1990s were the airline industry. Within the government, the FAA was also a big advocate, hoping it would be able to retire various other expensive systems if it could count on a reliable GPS.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Would this be an appropriate project for _Boaty McBoatface_ (the remote submersible attached to the _Attenborough_ )? I kind of hope so, obviously.

</comment><comment><USER27> > "Mines on land are soon going to run out," Scott says. "Every electronic > device in the world has rare earth [metals] in it ... we need raw > resources."

Rare earth mines on land are nowhere near running out.

<comment><USER28> And they can (apparently, I'm not an expert) be reclaimed. It's very technically challenging and expensive but they are still in all these old devices in Chinese landfills. They are not used up, I'd call them 'raw materials' not 'raw resources'. Oil and coal are 'raw resources' that you can't get back after they are used up.

One could even make an argument that time and money could be better spent researching a better recycling process for e-trash than trying to mine the ocean floor.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> Humans explored just 5% of sea floor;

</comment><comment><USER30> >Scott agrees that habitats around mining operations will be impacted. Still, based on his experience, he says, "I think [the effects] will be less substantial" than mining on land, which is known to have catastrophic environmental consequences ranging from acid mine drainage that pollutes water to toxic clouds of dust. "None of those things will be a problem in the ocean," Scott says.

So people are worried that a scientific expedition that vastly increases our knowledge of our world is controversial because it will make mining easier/more profitable?!?

Per the quote above that it will be less damaging than the current mining we do on land. We should be doing everything to make this type of deep ocean mining more economical. In addition, it should be easier to enforce environmental regulations on deep ocean mining as the mining operations will be international waters and susceptible to visits by various navies and interested parties on boats. This would also help with a lot of the problems we have with land mining (opacity to the outside world, conflict materials, human rights abuses, displacement of existing populations due to mine locations).

This opposition just seems very illogical.

<comment><USER31> Even if we were to take this guy's word for it (which we obviously shouldn't)...

> it should be easier to enforce environmental regulations on deep ocean > mining as the mining operations will be international waters

Precisely which regulations are you talking about, and who do you imagine enforcing them? The International Seabed Authority, of which the US is _not_ a member state, and whose Law of the Sea Convention they have repeatedly _declined to ratify_? Good luck with that.

<comment><USER18> Please don't spill oil into the environment which will kill the environment.

Violators must tow such disasters outside of said environment before returning regular exploitative operations.

Thank you,

The Management</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: What is -2^2? - <AUTHOR>

Is -2^2 equal to 4 or -4? which has precedence, the negate or the power? TI algebraic calculators do it one way while HP's algebraic calculators do it another. <comment><USER2> I believe the most common answer is -4, due to exponentiation having a higher precedence than negation. I'm not sure it's completely standard, though. In written mathematics it would be more common to write (-2)^2 if you really meant the -2 to be exponentiated. But, it might be different if you were using a style of traditional mathematics typesetting where unary negation and subtraction are more clearly distinguished. I could imagine something like 5 - -2^2 meaning to subtract (-2)^2 from 5, if it were written in a typesetting style where the unary minus was smaller and clearly more "bound" to the 2 than the subtraction was.

Miscellaneous support: a random elementary algebra textbook: [http://infinity.cos.edu/algebra/Rueger%20Text/Chapter02/2.6_...](http://infinity.cos.edu/algebra/Rueger%20Text/Chapter02/2.6_Exponents%20and%20Order%20of%20Operations.pdf) and a dude from mathforum.org: <http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/53240.html>

<comment><AUTHOR> That Math Forum post is excellent. Thanks!

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Considering operator precedence <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_operations> Quote: "Unfortunately, there exist differing conventions concerning the unary operator − (usually read "minus"). In written or printed mathematics, the expression −32 is interpreted to mean −(32) = −9, but in some applications and programming languages, notably the application Microsoft Office Excel and the programming language bc, unary operators have a higher priority than binary operators, that is, the unary minus (negation) has higher precedence than exponentiation, so in those languages −32 will be interpreted as (−3)2 = 9. [1]. In any case where there is a possibility that the notation might be misinterpreted, it is advisable to use parentheses to clarify which interpretation is intended."

<comment><USER4> Thanks for addressing the issue. A lot of people are taking this as an opinion question: it's not.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I've always been taught that (-2)^2 = 4, while -2^2 = -4. This has stayed true all through college calculus, but I can't prove it.

</comment><comment><USER6> Just remember PEMDAS: Parentheses first, Exponents next, Multiply/Divide, Add/Subtract. This is the order for dealing with simple math manipulations; don't trust a calculator that tells you otherwise.

</comment><comment><USER7> Somewhat related, in the Io language, I was surprised to find that the expression "-23 abs" evaluates to "-23" _not_ +23. The language desugars the expression to "0-(23 abs)". I think what threw me was the fact that Io uses a space rather than a dot for member selectors. No one would be surprised that C++ evaluates "-numObj.abs()" that way.

</comment><comment><USER8> I read it as shorthand for (-1) * 2^2, so -4.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> For the record, the TI-83 is -4 and the HP48 is 4. TI-83 (or now TI-84) is the dominant calculator in US math classes.

<comment><USER9> HP48 is RPN, which sidesteps precedence issues. So, here you explicitly need to decide if you want 2 NEG 2 ^ (i.e. (-2)^2) or 2 2 ^ NEG (i.e. -(2^2)).

The traditional order of operations is what the TI series does. In essence, it assumes you want the second form.

By the way, on my HP50G in algebraic mode, typing '-2^2' does give -4.

<comment><AUTHOR> I apologize. You are correct, the HP48gx is RPN only. Don't know why I thought otherwise. I had it in my head for some reason that 48 did both (it kind of does but not really) and that it gave the answer as 4.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I remember Stoustrup saying that this question was the reason that C++ doesn't have a double-asterisk operator. Everyone seems to give a different "obvious" answer.

</comment><comment><USER11> I think that precedence rules are evil.</comment>


Show HN: DIY Intercom Replacement for React Apps - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/kingofthestack/react-chat-window <comment><USER2> There should be an Intercom alternative that kept a single chat per customer, and that chat could continue through email etc.

The current Intercom is so bizarre that for some sites I'm just visiting it pops up a new chat every time I go to the landing page. Then, even if I never answer that automatic message, the next time I go there there it is again, but a new chat is created nonetheless.

</comment><comment><USER2> Thank you. This is awesome, very useful self-contained component. It's amazing it wasn't done before.

I hope I'll use this soon.

</comment><comment><USER3> I'm curious how many people use Intercom just for the chat function. When I've used it, it has primarily been for the customer lifecycle management portion of the product. That is, the ability to send user level data into Intercom and then trigger action driven emails out to users based on a variety of rules.

<comment><USER4> True. Chat has been around for a decade or more. Intercom didnt innovate on that at all. they just made customer management and communication easier.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Neat maybe can modify this to avoid blocking certain UI elements. The biggest issue IMO of intercom.io is how it can block critical parts of the UI when expanded.

</comment><comment><USER6> Oooh, you should make this into a cheaper version of intercom. It's way too pricey for me and all the other alternatives are ugly

<comment><AUTHOR> Funny you say that, that's how this project started! I've got the work in progress here [https://github.com/kingofthestack/slackchat](https://github.com/kingofthestack/slackchat)

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> I wish there was an API compatible intercom clone on GitHub. It would be quite popular I think.

<comment><USER2> Don't think it. You are wrong.</comment></comment>


9 Famous Apps Built with Node.js - <AUTHOR> https://brainhub.eu/blog/2016/05/30/9-famous-apps-using-node-js <comment><USER2> In case you don't want to click through the security warning, similar stories: [https://duckduckgo.com/?t=lm&q=9+Famous+Apps+Built+with+Node...](https://duckduckgo.com/?t=lm&q=9+Famous+Apps+Built+with+Node.js&ia=web)</comment>


List of software comapnies by revenue website? - <AUTHOR> Hi, I saw a link to website on HN a while back. I was a curated list of small software companies with revenue displayed under the description. revenues were from 1 to about 50,000 $/m . Just wondering if anyone has a link , I cant remember the name of the site and its driving me mad? <comment><USER2> seems like it's turned into some kind of email collection scheme.

[https://nathanlatka.clickfunnels.com/optin9790603](https://nathanlatka.clickfunnels.com/optin9790603)

[http://nathanlatka.com/11-saas-companies-reveal-mrr-saas- met...](http://nathanlatka.com/11-saas-companies-reveal-mrr-saas-metrics/)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> May have also been on product hunt</comment>


Sensor21: Earn Bitcoin by collecting environmental data - <AUTHOR> https://21.co/learn/sensor21 <comment><USER2> Interesting, but I wonder how profitable these kinds of micro-services will end up being. Seems like the margins must be pretty low, and I'm not sure what unique value you could deliver that a company couldn't more easily extract directly (by buying their own sensors, for example).

I've seen translation offered as another use-case of 21, but that seems like another mechanical turk kind of operation where there really isn't much added value outside of the low fee costs of using BTC as a currency.</comment>


Free the facts - a set on Flickr - <AUTHOR> http://flickr.com/photos/davegray/sets/72157612691100488/ <comment><USER2> This is a cause all hackers can get behind. Unless of course their site profits in selling access to these journals.

Even though I have access to these journals they might as well be worthless. The sites for searching are poorly constructed and terribly organized. Many times only an abstract is truly available and often is to vague to gain and understanding.

Google Scholar is a god-send though, my professors love it.

</comment><comment><USER3> Peer review isn't the problem. It is as important today as it was a hundred years ago.

The problem is the way in which it is paid for in the majority of journals. There has been a trend to enable the original researcher to bear the costs of reviewing and making available their research but this can cost several hundred pounds and is rarely covered by grants. For an impoverished PhD student / PostDoc the money isn't always there.

</comment><comment><USER4> This is wonderful. Informative, entertaining, insightful. Where's the dropbox to say so? Oh, this isn't Slashdot.</comment>


United Airlines bug bounty program, you could get some free miles - <AUTHOR> http://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contact/bugbounty.aspx

<comment><USER2> Thanks, I'll take my hacks to people who will pay me actual money</comment>


The Case Against Female Self-Esteem - <AUTHOR> http://mattforney.com/2013/09/16/the-case-against-female-self-esteem/

<comment><USER2> That's some vile stuff, that is. He almost had a valid point when he was talking about self-esteem needing a rational basis, but then he ruined that argument by gender-loading everything. The rest is little more than the ramblings of a predator, sexualizing vulnerability in a way that flies in the face of even the historical attitudes he cites.</comment>


Ask HN: What happened to the python.org redesign? - <AUTHOR>

<comment><USER2> I think the content is just not finished yet. You can view the preview at [http://preview.python.org](http://preview.python.org) and there is still a lot missing. Do you know who is in charge of the redesign?</comment>


A Closer Look at Piwik: A Google Analytics Alternative - <AUTHOR> http://www.sitepoint.com/closer-look-piwik-google-analytics-alternative/

<comment><USER2> I switched from GA to piwik. I like piwik better. Piwik lets you see detailed per-user information, what pages they visited and in what order. That information is not accessible easily in GA.</comment>


Whois google.com - <AUTHOR> http://pastebin.com/9agwhRvC

<comment><AUTHOR> I was testing whois on my linux box, and this is what I found. Can someone explain?

<comment><USER2> [http://betabeat.com/2011/10/just-a-cheap-trick-facebook- twit...](http://betabeat.com/2011/10/just-a-cheap-trick-facebook-twitter- apple-and-microsoft-dns-records-were-not-hacked/)</comment></comment>


Ruby 2.0 is now supported in the OS X window manager for hackers, Zephyros - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/sdegutis/zephyros

<comment><USER2> This looks a lot like [https://github.com/jigish/slate/](https://github.com/jigish/slate/) except with less features. Slate has all sorts of extra features like window hints and visual grid sizing (like Divvy). Granted Slate doesn't have Ruby config support but it does have JS.

<comment><AUTHOR> I tried window hints and didn't like it much. But it's possible to add this to Zephyros in a JS/Coffee config without even opening the ObjC stuff, since it's actually using JSCocoa under the hood, which gives you full access to Cocoa.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> A coworker of mine wrote this on-top of slate. [https://github.com/lunixbochs/reslate](https://github.com/lunixbochs/reslate)

Basically a set of sane defaults (slate really isn't that powerful out of the box unless you really dig deep into the undocumented config files). I started using it and haven't looked back since. I can move windows to almost any size I want and send them to other monitors. My only want would be a keybind to send to another space, but OS X doesn't really expose any clean way of doing that.

</comment><comment><USER4> Looks cool. You should make a video of it in action, I think that people would be more likely to check it out if they saw what it can do.

<comment><AUTHOR> Great idea, thanks. Got any ideas where to host such a video for free? I don't know if github does HTML5-videos yet.

<comment><USER4> I'm assuming that you don't want to use youtube. You can then use this to 'fake' embed it. [https://github.com/jreese/markdown- pp#youtubeembeds](https://github.com/jreese/markdown-pp#youtubeembeds)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> i've never really liked window manager things, since they always had that small little thing keeping them from being perfect. With zephyros, i could program it to do exactly what i wanted.

At one point i even made it generate csv files on the fly as i was copying out of OCR'd bank statements.

This is my zephyros config btw - [https://gist.github.com/Vertice/5565807](https://gist.github.com/Vertice/5565807)

<comment><AUTHOR> Whoa, that's a really cool example of how Zephyros is more than a window manager. Thanks for sharing :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Can you explain the difference between appgrid and zephyros? I see recent commits in both projects. Are both maintained?

<comment><AUTHOR> \- AppGrid is not configurable at all, it's for people who want a sane window manager that just works out of the box.

\- Zephyros is completely configurable and doesn't even come with a default configuration. You make it entirely on your own. Or you can steal someone else's and tweak it. The wiki has a lot of them.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Loving your commit history on it. Lots of "do not want", "oops", "meh?". :p

<comment><AUTHOR> What else are git commit messages for than to make people laugh? That's how I think everyone should use them.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> How does this compare to slate from a features standpoint?

<comment><AUTHOR> Just off the top of my head:

\- Ruby 2.0 support \- CoffeeScript support \- Simpler API \- Shorter docs \- No memory leaks (thanks to ARC) \- A REPL in the Log window \- A fuzzy- matching list-chooser API function

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Wow that headlines sounds like marketing copy</comment>


XML/JSON parsing trick and benchmark - <AUTHOR> http://blog.netguru.co/post/54586779431/xml-json-parsing-trick

<comment><USER2> I don't understand this post or why it is upvoted. Where's the trick? What does the trick do? It feels like half of the post is missing.

<comment><USER3> It seems like it boils down to use oj[0] as a parser I think...

[0] [https://github.com/ohler55/oj](https://github.com/ohler55/oj)

<comment><USER4> That's not a trick. That's "use a faster library".

I guess the trick might be "always profile, because performance bottlenecks might not be where you expect".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I'd like to see jackson[1] added into this comparison, just to have something to compare them with.

[1] [http://wiki.fasterxml.com/JacksonHome](http://wiki.fasterxml.com/JacksonHome)</comment>


Jetbrains 0xDBE: New Intelligent IDE for DBAs and SQL Developers - <AUTHOR> https://www.jetbrains.com/dbe <comment><USER2> I've been happy using it in the beta program since I have been working with some old MS SQL Server databases at work on my linux laptop. I do wish their trigger support would show up, but it's much better than SQL management studio.</comment>


Gitolite's domain was snatched up - <AUTHOR> http://gitolite.com?oops <comment><USER2> Not really. Just some stupid registrars start serving junk sites when the domain is not renewed. This should be outlawed. Imagine not paying your phone bill and the telco starts serving ads when people call you and puts your number on an auction if you don't pay within 40 days. This is obscene and all this is because possibly registries pay big bucks under the table to ICANN!

<comment><AUTHOR> That's really terrible. I hope they can get their domain back soon.

<comment><USER2> It looks like he renewed the domain and all is good!</comment></comment></comment>


Electropocalypse – iPad App to learn electronics hands-on - <AUTHOR> http://stratolab.com/electropocalypse/ <comment><AUTHOR> Windows and OS X ports also available.

The author, Winston Wolff, credits[1] The Incredible Machine[2] and Rocky's Boots[3] as inspirations - many HN readers will probably remember or enjoy these puzzle-solving games.

[1] [http://stratolab.com/misc/learning- games/](http://stratolab.com/misc/learning-games/)

[2] [http://www.myabandonware.com/game/the-incredible- machine-1mg](http://www.myabandonware.com/game/the-incredible-machine-1mg)

[3] [http://www.myabandonware.com/game/rockys-boots- cp](http://www.myabandonware.com/game/rockys-boots-cp)</comment>


Website tracks overboard passengers on cruiselines - <AUTHOR> http://www.cruisejunkie.com/Overboard.html <comment><USER2> See

[http://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology/man-overboard-to- le...](http://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology/man-overboard-to-leave- scientology-don-jason-had-to-jump-off-a-ship/1048124)</comment>


Snow data - <AUTHOR> https://twitter.com/AtUngleich/status/1056818853425176576 <comment><AUTHOR> If somebody would ask you, what is the connection between IT and nature, most of you would probably say 'none'. Well not in the case of Swiss IT start up. Check the newest the newest comic about them!:-)</comment>


PJON, decentralized networking made simple - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/gioblu/PJON/tree/12.0 <comment><AUTHOR> More info here: www.pjon.org

<comment><USER2> Cool project. Why don't you mention pjon.org in the repo headline or readme?

<comment><AUTHOR> Ciao rapnie, you are right a link to the website is missing in the README. Thank you for your suggestion, I will fix it as soon as possible.</comment></comment></comment>


Documentary About Pedophile Priests Shakes Up Poland - <AUTHOR> https://www.apnews.com/14f374e7c6a340e6bbf543223f968006 <comment> phoe-krk The documentary is very good and based on facts, and the Polish church never had and still does not have any means of getting rid of people such as the collaborators who have been implanted there by the old communist governments or child molesters who proliferate in this environment, having unrestricted access to children in schools and churches. They are simply moved from one chapel to another or, eventually, to houses for the elderly priests.

This needs to change, and, as a Polish person, I wholeheartedly welcome this documentary. I am glad that it has been made - it would never be possible if it was not for independent filmmaking.

It's time for the Catholic church to stop being associated with child molestation - and in order for that to happen, the child molestation must be purged from that church with all appropriate means. Otherwise, that stigma will just keep on going on.

<comment><USER2> But what if there's nothing to purge? What if the church itself is the catalyst for creating predators?

The fact that this problem has spanned generations tells me that this isn't something you can purge, it's fundamental to the way the church operates. Ask a man to be celibate and then give him unquestioned, divine power over individuals? Of course you're going to have a predator problem!

<comment><USER3> Institutions such as public schools and the Boy Scouts that do not require celibacy have had very similar problems. So have some Protestant churches that allow their ministers to marry.

The John Jay report done on clerical sex abuse in the USA didn't find the percentage of abusers in the priesthood to be significantly different from those in other professions.

The impulse to cover up is not limited to the institution of celibacy by any means.

Unfortunately as a catholic I fear this is a ticking time bomb for many non first world churches. The church here in the US only put into place decent zero-tolerance policies in the late 90s and early 2000s and many churches in other regions have failed to take matching action.

<comment><USER4> > Institutions such as public schools and the Boy Scouts that do not require > celibacy have had very similar problems.

All have one thing in common: adults with unchecked power over minors.

<comment><USER5> Its more common than that as it starts with mothers breastfeeding their kids. Other scientists argue Pedophilia and others are perfectly natural, you even see this behaviour in other animals, including castrated male dogs trying to copulate with younger dogs. For decades, the BBC hid the sexual habits of Bonobo monkeys from the wider public, they have sex with all ages of their species, something that was only known in small academic circles. Of course the accusation of pedophilia and other philia's is an excellent blackmail and extortion method most often used by security services of all people! Can you think of a better accusation to make where it can not be defended as it boils down to a historical event which is medically hard to prove and simply relies on the evidence of at least 2 people. Now why cant you make up a false accusation about a teacher who you didnt like and think about how it could be defended when you put yourself in either persons shoes.

After reading the below, at least you will learn why some men and women get so angry at mothers breastfeeding in public considering the sexual connotations.

Levin, Roy J. (May 2006), "The breast/nipple/areola complex and human sexuality". Sexual & Relationship Therapy. 21 (2):237–249.

        p240-241 wrote:
        Approximately 33 to 50% of mothers described breast feeding as an erotic experience, while some 25% expressed guilt because of the sexual excitement that they felt (von Sydow, 1999). In a few cases the arousal is strong enough to induce orgasm which causes some nursing mothers to abandon breast feeding because of the sexual stimulation (Dickinson, 1949, p. 67; Masters & Johnson, 1966, p. 162). In a questionnaire on orgasm and pregnancy published in a Dutch magazine for women, Gianotten (1988) asked ''Did you experience, while breastfeeding, a sensation of sexual excitement'', 34% (total n¼153) answered ''Yes'' and to the question ''Did you experience, while breastfeeding, pleasurable contractions in the uterine region'', 71% answered ''Yes''. Of these 153 women who had been breastfeeding who replied to the question ''Did you experience, while breast feeding an orgasm (during or as the result of breastfeeding)'', 12 (8%) answered ''Yes''. Ignorance about such normal physiological occurrences can sometimes create gross miscarriages of the law. According to Yalom (1997, p. 254), a mother in Syracuse, New York in 1992 had her two-year-old child taken away from her after admitting that she became aroused on nursing, the authorities claiming that she sexually abused the child. A judge found there was no case and after 8 months the child was returned to the custody not of her mother, but of her grandparents!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> The movie is available legally for free on youtube: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrUvQ3W3nV4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrUvQ3W3nV4)

There are English subtitles.

</comment><comment><USER7> Not very related, but I found this excellent yet sad news story via HN search half a year back: [https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/christinekenneally/orph...](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/christinekenneally/orphanage- death-catholic-abuse-nuns-st-josephs)

It's a long read but IMO was worth it.

It seems to be a long-running trend for Churches and similar religious organizations to do this sort of stuff.

</comment><comment><USER8> Poland is insanely religious. I grew up in Poland and moved to US with my parents at age of 14. I became an atheist. Recently, I visited Poland, and was amazed that people my age are still mostly religious.

Recently, I read a story about people who took down a statue of a priest who molested children. There was an outcry and some politician had the statue put back in its place. That is just so twisted. Many people I talked to in Poland don't want to even discuss church and systematic protection of pedophiles. It makes them very uneasy but they want to ignore it i guess?

<comment><USER6> The problem with that particular statue was procedural - they illegally took down that statue before the city council decided what to do with it as the accusations appeared. I can understand why these people did it - they can be frustrated after decades of being ignored.

The late president of Gdańsk said they will take it down, but it takes time for the procedure, and the activists took it down themselves before that. So they will probably put it back and then take it down legally. As funny as this sounds Gdańsk is very liberal for Poland.

But, generally I agree - Poland is crazy religious, and the problem with that particular priest was that he knew all the highest officials in Poland, including even presidents. He was the Solidarity priest, that participated in the protests against communism. At first it was almost a national betrayal to say anything bad about him (because he was a figure of anti-communism opposition), then after communism failed he knew presidents and prime ministers and who would act on these accusations.

So he died without being officially accused, and now it's hard to even get people to remove the statues...

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Here's another great documentary that reflects the efforts of the Catholic Church historically to not only hide the offense and move the alleged perpetrator, but would often move them back to positions where the abuse could take place again:

The Keepers

[https://www.netflix.com/title/80122179](https://www.netflix.com/title/80122179)

</comment><comment><USER10> Tell sexual humans not to be sexual due to some made up non-sense myths and put them in positions of power and authority, what could possibly go wrong? They want to stop child abuse, and sure who is not for that, but how about stopping myth abuse?

<comment><USER11> I'm personally not convinced by the often exerted narrative that celibacy leads to pedophilia. It seems to me that a more likely explanation is that someone with a certain inclination would seek out a job (perhaps even subconsciously) that may offer him a chance to get closer to living out that inclination.

<comment><USER12> It's probably a bit of both. Homosexuality is, at least stereotypically, more common in environments where there are no other options, like sailing ships and prisons, even in cultures where it is strongly taboo. It's a small leap to say the same could apply to paedophilia.

<comment><USER13> I wonder if there's value in seperating homosexuality, the sexual preference/identity, from the act - I feel like in many of those "no other options" scenarios there probably wouldn't be a lot of identifying as homosexual, nor a preference for homosexual acts, but instead as acts of sexual pragmatism.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Any other organization with that behavior that is not a church would already have been shut down worldwide and leadership would be in jail. I hope that believers will put pressure on the church to clean up its act.

<comment><USER6> So far believers (and the government which is in bed with Catholic Church here) cry it's "an attack on the church".

EDIT: someone even flagged this.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> This is an AP story: [https://www.apnews.com/14f374e7c6a340e6bbf543223f968006](https://www.apnews.com/14f374e7c6a340e6bbf543223f968006)

<comment><USER16> Ok, we'll switch to that from [https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/05/13/world/europe/ap-...](https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/05/13/world/europe/ap- eu-poland-church-sex-abuse.html).</comment></comment>


How I finally got job interviews at Palantir and Dropbox - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/the-mission/how-i-finally-got-job-interviews-at-palantir-and-dropbox-e340e851d515 <comment><USER2> "Amazing Embedded User Operations Engineer Offer Letter" \- really? This has been talked to death on HN, however I still can't help but get reminded of Dan Lyons' experience at HubSpot[1] every time I see language like that in official/semi-official documents.

[1] [http://fortune.com/disrupted-excerpt-hubspot-startup-dan- lyo...](http://fortune.com/disrupted-excerpt-hubspot-startup-dan-lyons)

</comment><comment><USER3> As a hiring manager having to slog through resumes of people who pretend to be programmers, it never ceases to amaze me how few applicants understand something so basic as having the skills and experience that a position requires, before applying.

<comment><USER4> It cuts both ways. A lot of position writeups clearly have way too many bullet points (with arbitrary numbers of years of experience required in each - as if years of experience in X actually means anything), often in trivially learnable and/or transferable skill areas; or are just plain ungrammatical or otherwise incoherent. And then these places wonder why months and months go by with very few people applying.

<comment><USER5> Or worse, they expect people to be good at multiple unrelated job fields at the same time. No, you're not likely to find a web developer who's also fantastic at graphics design, marketing/SEO, technical support, writing and sales. Especially not if you offer near minimum wage for the work.

In cases like that, they're either after an extremely rare unicorn that will fix their business overnight or not actually that reliant on someone with all those skills and hoping some magical unicorn will apply none the less.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I know two people at Dropbox that I could talk to... That's how programmers do it, anyway.</comment>


Apple has a gajillion dollars. Devs still have to pay $100. - <AUTHOR> http://lunduke.com/?p=2301 <comment><USER2> There are hundreds of thousands of apps in the App Store, most of which are terrible. Imagine how many would be in there if there was no $100 fee.

<comment><USER3> Shouldn't better search or discovery algorithms or UI, be a more elegant solution than just brute-forcing a paywall into it?

Think of the children. I mean, seriously, how many of us were young highschool hackers who would have just loved the opportunity to build something awesome for smartphones. But would be halted by Apple's fine?

<comment><USER4> You can build all you want; the tools are available with a free developer account. The fee only applies if you want to distribute your apps through the app store. But the tools are way better -- and way cheaper, even after the $99 -- than they were when I was a young highschool hacker.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I see the developer fee as just a barrier to entry to submit apps to the marketing place - kinda just to stop the riff-raff. I suspect it also is linked to the the legal agreement as some type of consideration.

<comment><USER6> There already exists a $1500 barrier to entry: the cost of a Mac.

Thanks though, if I want to load programs on my iPhone, I'll do so through Cydia.

<comment><USER7> Mac mini starts at $599. And no need to be hostile--he's making a legitimate point. By charging a relatively modest fee to use the store--the tools themselves are free, unlike things like VS--Apple is making sure people have minute skin in the game.

<comment><USER8> Of course. Even here people can't resist the Apple hate pronunciations. What do people think they'd be developing if it wasn't for Apple? Would the $X billions of dollars paid to App developers be made some other way? Basic games?

<comment><USER6> I didn't believe I was being hostile. It's just a matter of fact statement that if I need programs loaded for me and friends, I'll send it to Cydia.

I cannot afford a MacBook, nor the 100$ fee to develop.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Although I agree with the point made here, Apple probably wouldn't have a gajillion if they weren't charging developers (not the only income, I know).

"Palace is made of bricks" we like to say.

</comment><comment><USER10> Yes, and can you imagine how much worse the app store would be if the people screening apps didn't have apple charging a $100 cover?

</comment><comment><USER11> What's the point? Either pay the $100, or don't.

How much cash money Apple has is orthogonal to how the developer program is structured. Maybe the $100 fee has benefits for gatekeeping purposes, but that's a separate evaluation and discussion.

I'm not an iOS dev, and anything I would do on mobile would be Android first, so I don't have any reason to try to defend Apple here.

</comment><comment><USER12> Probably the first tier of "keeping out the riff-raff"

</comment><comment><USER13> More than anything, I think the intention behind the developer fee is to act as an additional buffer against low-quality developers. Personally, I have no objection to it. If you're serious about putting time into developing for Apple, $100 bucks isn't really all that big a deal. Furthermore, 30% isn't a bad deal either considering that Apple is providing you with a large platform for distribution as well as potential exposure.

</comment><comment><USER14> They would have less than a gajillion dollars if they let any robo-scambucket inject malicious and worthless products into their many Gardens of Algorithmic Delight.

Access to a quarter billion users with one-click credit cards is either worth $100 to you or it isn't.

</comment><comment><USER15> This is only a problem for people who plan to make <$100 from their app

<comment><USER16> Which includes 100% of freeware, and 99% of weekend "hey let's put this on the net and see if people want it" projects.

Both of those things used to be a big part of the Mac software ecosystem, but they're slowly dying away. And if Apple moves forward with its apparent plan to prohibit unsigned code from running by default, while charging $99/year for the privilege of having your code signed, both will be effectively extinct within the next year.

<comment><USER17> Agreed. I run an open source project and would love to make an iPhone app, but it's an out of pocket expense that I can't justify. It's a shame and I'm sure it's a pain other open source projects feel. I really hope they don't go fully down that path for OSX. Maybe an alternative would be a free software key, or something just to help collaboration and improve the social coding aspect. They could even corral the apps in a different way to lower the QA stakes, so our free spirited hacker lifestyle doesn't have to mess with Apple's mojo.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> If I had bought one share in Apple six years ago then they would have paid for five years of developer membership fees.

</comment><comment><USER18> Translation:

'Wah wah. Mommy won't let me eat cake! but me like CAKKKEE SO MUCH! Mommy mean! Mommy have so much cake not let me have any. Stupid Mommy.'</comment>


Modern monetary theory: the rise of economists who say government de (cont) - <AUTHOR> https://theconversation.com/modern-monetary-theory-the-rise-of-economists-who-say-huge-government-debt-is-not-a-problem-141495 <comment><USER2> I know this sounds boring and old-fashioned, but whether government debt is a good or a bad thing, would depend a lot on what it was doing with the money it borrowed. If it spent it on repairing aging dams that were about to burst, bridges that needed repairs, and roads that have become unable to bear the traffic they are meant to, they could be a very wise decision. If they are used to build dams where none are needed, bridges to nowhere, and re-pave roads that are already fine, then they are not good. It is not so much the amount of debt that matters (for a sovereign state like the UK that is able to borrow in its own currency), but what the money (and thus the labor and real materials the money is used to purchase) is used to do.

</comment><comment><USER3> No government in power now has shown any desire to allow inflation, and in the absence of inflation central bank spending only benefits the wealthy basically by tautology. Even proponents would admit it must without taxing the wealthy.

Proponents of mmt imagine a "new deal 2.0" what they will get is even worse inequality, followed by social upheaval.

Virtually all of the balance sheet expansion the us fed has engaged in since qe has only enriched bondholders.

Mmt is nothing but an excuse for easy policies. It's like a slim fast shake treatment for heart disease and I can't wait for it to go away.

</comment><comment><USER4> > The only limit, according to this view, is if inflation starts to rise, in > which case the solution is to increase taxes.

But that's the problem. Spend too much, and you'll be paying for it later, with either ruinous inflation or ruinous taxes.</comment>


Why don't more people use telegram? - <AUTHOR> Telegram's users are mostly in Iran, Italy, Russia, Brazil, and the US. I'm not related to telegram team, but I have seen some very good features in their app (Channels, Encrypted Messaging, Groups, Bots, Voice call, themes, speed, regular updates, ...).
In my opinion it could replace twitter for news broadcasting, replace FB for making groups of friends and messaging them, etc.
Now the question is: why hasn't this app become more popular in Europe, Canada, the US, and the rest of the world? What's wrong with their business-plan/product? <comment><USER2> Because it's not end-to-end encrypted by default. At least that's why I don't use it.</comment>


Socialteria - <AUTHOR> https://socialteria.com <comment><AUTHOR> Hello everyone,

Looking to get some exposure about my app [https://socialteria.com](https://socialteria.com) it's a social media management app you can queue up bunch of posts and have them shared in the future to your social media accounts. One cool feature is the content suggestion you can find popular content from popular facebook pages we list the best content on top you can one click share it.

Right now it's just me one solo developer, but my goal is to make it one of the best web apps for social media. I have some great features on the road map.

I would love to get your feedback let me know what you think or if you find something that is broken (probably it's still beta!)

Thanks! -Mark</comment>


Pdfmake – PDF printing in pure JavaScript - <AUTHOR> http://pdfmake.org/#/ <comment><USER2> pdfmake is based on my PDFKit project [http://github.com/devongovett/pdfkit](http://github.com/devongovett/pdfkit), which does the actual PDF generation under the hood. pdfmake is a layout engine on top of PDFKit supporting a nice declarative json document description format.

<comment><USER3> Has anyone here done a comparison of server-side PDF generators? PDFKit, ReportLab, etc?

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Just looked at the sample on the playground section of the website. No hyphenation, no ligatures, and overall the output looks ugly (compared to TeX). What is the advantage over simply creating an appropriate LaTeX/ConTeXt document in the background and serving that?

<comment><USER5> >overall the output looks ugly (compared to TeX)

what doesn't!

>What is the advantage over simply creating an appropriate LaTeX/ConTeXt document in the background and serving that?

the obvious advantage is that you wouldn't have to learn LaTeX/ConTeXt, no?

<comment><USER6> Pdfmake could generate LaTeX, which can then be properly compiled to a pdf (potentially with texlive.js).

In Haskell this is possible with similar DSLs. Very useful to generate reports.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> How does it compare to

Mozilla's PDF.js [https://mozilla.github.io/pdf.js/](https://mozilla.github.io/pdf.js/)

or

Parallax's jsPDF [https://parall.ax/products/jspdf](https://parall.ax/products/jspdf)

<comment><USER8> PDF.js is a Portable Document Format (PDF) _viewer_.

jsPDF prints using:

        var doc = new jsPDF();
        doc.setFontSize(40);
        doc.text(35, 25, "Paranyan loves jsPDF");
        doc.addImage(imgData, 'JPEG', 15, 40, 180, 160);

Pdfmake on the other hand:

       var dd = {
    	content: [
    		'First paragraph',
    		'Another paragraph, this time a little bit longer to make sure, this line will be divided into at least two lines'
    	]
       }

<comment><USER9> jsPDF doesn't trim each line like Pdfmake does. Pdfmake however supports new pages, witch jsPDF doesn't. Would be cool if Pdfmake didn't trim the lines!

<comment><USER10> jsPDF has a method called `addPage()` which adds a new page

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> There's also [https://github.com/devongovett/pdfkit](https://github.com/devongovett/pdfkit), which I've used to bulk-print ticket envelopes for an event. It does support multiple pages, as I had one PDF file per event occurrence (with 50-80 envelopes per).

<comment><USER12> pdfmake is actually built on top of pdfkit.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> This looks really well done. Any chance that it could emulate the functionality of wkhtmltopdf in the browser (a.k.a. CSS styling, structure from HTML)?

<comment><USER14> I would say pretty low wkhtmltopdf like PhantomJS uses Webkit to layout HTML then converts that layout to PDF, HTML layout including CSS and javascript execution is a heavy lift, this library only scratches the surface of what would be needed to cover wkhtmltopdf.

First you would need a pure js web browser, the closest thing currently being zombie I think. If you didn't care about running on the server then you could take advantage of the browser the lib is running in to get the current computed layout from the active dom and transform into the PDF layout, still a big job but the heavy lift is done by the browser. Telerik does this in their Kendo lib, where they render a active dom element to thier abstracted vector graphics model, then have PDF, SVG and Canvas renders for that: [http://docs.telerik.com/kendo- ui/framework/drawing/drawing-d...](http://docs.telerik.com/kendo- ui/framework/drawing/drawing-dom)

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Right now I'm using PhantomJS to render an HTML page. It supports styling via CSS, multiple pages, etc etc. What advantages does this have?

<comment><USER14> PhantomJS is a full web browser that just happens to output PDF's. This is a library to create PDF's with it's own layout model that shares nothing with HTML. Much simpler and low level.

<comment><USER15> Is it really simpler? I have to learn a DSL to create PDFs with this, whereas I can just use HTML in the other case.

<comment><USER16> It's not like there is a direct translation from HTML to PDF. They don't really map 1:1. The PDF exported by a browser from an HTML page is an interpretation of that content. Converting from HTML is not a straightforward, reliable way to produce PDFs. Sometimes the process turns out beautiful, sometimes it turns out kind of shitty. Not to mention there are PDF features which are not supported by an HTML export (for example, forms).

A DSL designed for PDF creation is a much better way to approach this. It gives you way more control over what you're doing. Concerning pdfkit specifically, I think a JSON file is a gruesome way to design a PDF, but IMO it's still better than converting from HTML unless you're doing something very simple.

<comment><USER14> I sort of disagree, HTML as implemented in PhantomJs, wkhtmltopdf and all interactive browsers is incomplete for paged/print output. However HTML with CCS page media is pretty close to being a complete solution, unfortunately the only implementation currently is the commercial PrinceXML.

If someone (Apple or Google) would get wise and implement the full paged media spec then PhantomJS/wkhtmltopdf/your browser might be a viable option for full fidelity print output.

See: [http://www.webkit.org/projects/printing/](http://www.webkit.org/projects/printing/)

[http://www.princexml.com/](http://www.princexml.com/)

Until then our apps will have to suffer with one layout language for viewing (HTML) and have another for print like this lib.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Nice. This is something I have wanted to find time to write and I'm glad somebody else already has.

I use pdfkit because I have an offline-capable JS app with fairly rich document printing needs. A friendly layout engine on top can save a lot of effort making nice designs.

</comment><comment><USER18> I used PDFMake on a recent project and was very pleased.

One issue we ran into in browser was the huge size overhead from vfs_fonts - is there a preferred workaround to this issue (we had to serve it separately from the rest of the app), or any solution in the pipeline?

</comment><comment><USER19> Little of topic. What would be nice is to have something like "print to pdf, aka save page as pdf" via a browser using pdfjs.

<comment><USER20> "PDF" is a valid application-agnostic printer target on the Debian box I am using.

<comment><USER21> In OS X too. I believe Windows is the only OS that needs you to install a PDF printer.

<comment><USER22> On Windows, CutePDF uses Ghostscript for the virtual printer.

On iOS, Apple disabled the API for local virtual printers. There are various "html-to-pdf" apps, but these often perform a non-interactive fetch of the source web page, which use different auth/cookies and can result in a PDF which is different from the one displayed by Safari.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Does this support svg images (e.g. d3.js charts)?

<comment><USER24> Commercial, but DocRaptor does with some additional Javascript parsing on top of PrinceMXL

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Does any of these PDF making solutions properly support RTL languages like Arabic and Hebrew?

</comment><comment><USER26> Cudos! PDF has a god-awful spec., with which I am intimate. I am impressed with what you have been able to do. I don't think most people realize that the spec. for PDF is over 1,000 pages is and was written by bipolar sadists.

<comment><USER27> Is this really longer than the combined specs for HTML and CSS?</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Which is the best prog. laptop (battery, Linux Hardware support etc.)? - <AUTHOR>

Hello Readers, I want to have a really good machine for my programming needs. Just wanted your input as to which laptop is really the best for the purpose. I cannot afford a Mac (yet!) and my budget is just about a 1000$. I mostly program in Python and C++.<p>Thanks for your comments. <comment><USER2> I wouldn't be worried about what laptop you have - I generally find it's better to buy cheap stuff and replace it often (I tend to stay about 1-2 years behind the best in PC's for example and buy a new one each year, selling the old one on ebay to cover part of the cost).

The only hardware aspect worth thinking about with a laptop for coding is how big a screen you will be getting - get the largest you can afford so that you can see as many lines of code as possible.

Try <http://www.linux-laptop.net> to make sure you get something you can run your favourite Linux distro on.

</comment><comment><USER3> Shop around for a Thinkpad, you can occasionally find a batch of them off a corporate lease, which can be a real bargain (half what you'd pay for a new laptop of equivalent specs).

</comment><comment><USER4> If you cannot buy a new Mac (or better still a Mac Book Pro) why not try and get a used one from eBay? $1000 should get you something fairly decent.

</comment><comment><USER5> Lenovo

</comment><comment><USER6> Anything from ASUS.</comment>


Younger Adults Comprise Big Portion of Coronavirus Hospitalizations in U.S. - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/health/coronavirus-young-people.html <comment><USER2> This is trivial to explain. Only the young and rich in the US can afford hospital care. most of the elderlies, out of the workforce, can not.

</comment><comment><USER3> [https://archive.is/QckEZ](https://archive.is/QckEZ)

</comment><comment><USER4> this requires subscription or sign in to read

<comment><USER5> If you turn off JS you can read it.</comment></comment>


Wealth: redistribution and interest rates - <AUTHOR> https://ergodicityeconomics.com/2017/08/14/wealth-redistribution-and-interest-rates/ <comment><USER2> > If we "do nothing" (\tau =0), inequality increases indefinitely.

No. This is "if we do _nothing different_ ". Reducing interest rates are a policy. But QE and lowering interest rates should have been _predicted_ to have had this effect. Central bank interest rate reduction lowers the cost of debt _for citizens who can afford low interest loans_. that's mostly financial sector orgs and individuals, who are, for example, using debt-based instruments for leveraged investment. Even a mortgage is accessible mostly to people already on the upper half of the wealth scale - the poor in SF, for example, are not benefitting from interest rate reductions.

The effect of increasing the M(2+) money supply by encouraging increasing outstanding loans by making them cheaper ALSO has the effect of making the cost of living more expensive for the lowest part of society, and also forces the middle class to engage in speculative investment as a dominant part of their retirement strategy, which is a subsidy for big business. We should flippantly call this phenomenon "trickle up wealth redistribution".

If we increase interest rates, in the short term a lot of people in the lower half of the economy are going to get poorer. Many of them will declare bankruptcy (which is a good thing!), but in the long term it will break the cycle of indebtedness to the rich, if we take efforts to make sure debt risk is always assumed by the lender.

<comment><USER3> > but in the long term it will break the cycle of indebtedness to the rich, if > we take efforts to make sure debt risk is always assumed by the lender.

I can see how that works, but in practice, lenders always sell their debts. My mortgage via Citi is sold, even though my interest rate and my payment remain unchanged. Then comes the government which will always provide some bailout, so what does "assume risk" even mean when in the end risk is going to get swallowed by another lender anyway?

<comment><USER2> Well as long as the Government doesn't bail out, then someone assumes the risk, and along the way there are write-downs, and the purchaser of the debt now holds the basket and assumes the old risk. So basically I'm saying "as long as government doesn't bail out".

<comment><USER4> > as long as the Government doesn't bail out

After 2008, this is not an assumption that can be made.

<comment><USER2> no doubt.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Models like the one described in TFA bother me.

It's easy enough to write down an equation, estimate some of its parameters, and tell a story about it. The hard part is making a convincing case that the model actually resembles reality: that link is the missing piece that rarely appears in modelling exercises like this one.

Until you can make a convincing connection between reality and your model, all you're doing is solving equations and telling stories.

<comment><USER6> Unfortunately, without a laboratory to test such hypotheses, that is all that economics (as we understand it today) can ever be.

Edit: also, TFA gives some good arguments for validity of the model.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> This seems to strongly support Milton Friedman's basic income (along with sane interest rates). BI provides the boost, while sane interest rates reduces the drag.

So the question left is how do you communicate this to the public.

<comment><USER8> Offtopic:

Why is paid busywork or a job guarantee more acceptable than basic income? Apparently the risk of basic income is that people end up only playing video games. But aren't video games the definition of busywork?

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> _Let's actually name the thing: we're talking about capitalism. The genius of capitalism is precisely its multiplicative nature._

This is an interesting article but something in particular struck me. Why does almost every public mention of Capitalism in the USA accompanied by some paean to it?

It sounds like A veneration that follows any mention of Mohammad among devout Muslims.

Why does everyone feel they need to give their bona fides? I feel that there are several senses in which it is the official state religion.

<comment><USER10> Because criticizing capitalism is like criticizing gravity. It objectively works as a method for optimizing allocation of resources for the progress of society, as measured by metrics like GDP per capita.

Saying capitalism doesn't work is the economic equivalent of being a flat earther. So if you are saying something that sounds like "capitalism doesn't work", you'd better phrase it as "capitalism as practiced today works but is suboptimal" if you want to not be automatically dropped in the looney bin category.

<comment><USER11> Capitalism only works in optimizing those things it measures in the first place. Progress of society does not even _enter_ into it, at all. If 300 million people had nothing and screamed in pain all day, and one person had it it all and multiplied it by X, the GDP would be multiplied by X. So what kind of measure is that?

I also find it interesting that nobody even mentioned capitalism "not working". The comment said that any mention of capitalism is often followed by generic praises. I guess another form of that is _" capitalism brought us great things, and is better than the alternatives we had so far, but [criticism of some aspects or consquences of it]"_ \-- which acknowledges that it "works", just like using coal to heat your home works, like many things undeniably work; yet even that would raise the above question, how come it's treated like a religion? If it's so great, why so defensive to the point of scoring own goals?

<comment><USER12> > Progress of society does not even enter into it, at all.

Capitalism in America, 1800-1900, brought along with it enormous, unprecedented, and historic improvements in longevity, height, and reductions in infant mortality.

<comment><USER13> State Capitalism / Socialism in the USSR did the same in less than half the time.

<comment><USER12> US industrial agriculture kept the USSR afloat in the 70s as it was unable to feed itself. Kansas was dubbed "the breadbasket of the Soviet Union". The historical threat of famine ended in the US around 1800 and was an early dividend of free market agriculture.

<comment><USER14> I'm not sure I see the connection. The United States lucked into natural resources more plentiful than lots of other places in the world, that's true, but is it meaningful that a country be able to "feed itself"? Obviously it's a valuable thing to have, strategically, but I don't see how "they had lots of imports" is necessarily an indictment of an entire economic system. Nobody makes fun of Ireland for importing $5 billion+ in foodstuffs every year, it's just one of the things they're short of.

<comment><USER12> The Ukraine fed europe until its agriculture was collectivized. Famine resulted. Collectivization of agriculture has been tried again and again, and famine always results.

You might want to read up on Lenin's New Economic Policy:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Economic_Policy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Economic_Policy)

<comment><USER14> Will do, thanks for the recommendations.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Interesting to note that the time when the wealth redistribution parameter must become negative to match data for the US economy is around the 1980s. This is also around the time when a lot of "neoliberal" and "free-market" policies were introduced.

<comment><USER6> At this point one begins to realize that "Reaganomics" is more than just a dog whistle and actually had a huge impact on the working class.

It's a twisted joke that Reagan was just inducted into the Labor Department's Hall of Honor.[1]

[1] [http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/347840-labor- depa...](http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/347840-labor-department- names-ronald-reagan-to-hall-of-honor)</comment></comment>


How to Combine A Phone and A Tablet? - <AUTHOR> http://checkthis.com/u3or Is it possible to combine a phone and a tablet, in the sense of putting a 7" screen on a 4" to 5" phone? No flexible or bendable screens. These are future technology. We want it NOW. <comment><AUTHOR> Any comments?</comment>


Software is Eating Hardware – Lessons for Building Magical Devices - <AUTHOR> http://firstround.com/article/hardware-adam-macbeth <comment><USER2> "There's a reason FiftyThree's Pencil is considered one of the most beautiful and revolutionary pieces of hardware in recent years"

It is? Am I the one in a bubble here or are the writers of this article in some strange feedback loop?

<comment><USER3> Well fuck, why wasn't I invited to the revolution?

Journalists should know better than throwing around weasel phrases like these. Consumer devices like the Pencil are outside the scope of _interest_ , let alone work, of most hardware and embedded software engineers, and it has changed exactly nothing about the field in general, thus hardly making it "revolutionary".

<comment><USER4> For this blog post, although a journalist (in training) may have written it, it is on the firstround blog and the purpose appears to be both educating companies that first round invests in as well as getting traffic which can bring first round investment prospects. Hence the link bait title "software is eating hardware". Made me take a look. Simply "lessons for building magical devices" wouldn't have.

I'm not seeing any attribution at all as far as who put together this post, could have been a summer intern. Hard to believe (because of no attribution) that it's anyone at first round of any significance.

Edit: Just saw carbocations comment re: bylines below.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> > We have chosen to not use bylines because we believe the voice and insights > provided by our subjects are the highest priority.

I came upon this while looking for the author. I think it's too bad they don't use bylines. It matters to me whether the person who wrote this is their co- founder, a capitalist, an engineer, etc.

Rather than not using bylines, I'd prefer that they name the author as well as the reviewers and other contributors, much as Paul Graham does.

<comment><USER6> Didn't see a date either. Wanted to see both, as I've the odd feeling I've seen this before, and it was roundly criticized on HN at the time.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Software vs hardware again. I've worked in both sides of things (EE and software) and despite it being my income now, I distrust software people more than hardware people.

Hardware people have to get it right first time and generally have better engineering discipline. They are also supported better by their tools (software tooling is crappy at best compared to say SolidWorks or an EDA platform).

Software people tend to accept a fuck up on day one and fix it later approach.

Hardware and software people need to work together. Someone with battle scars from both arenas needs to lead as they understand the compromises at both ends and can direct the product.

Software isn't eating hardware.

<comment><USER8> > They are also supported better by their tools

Uh ... have you ever had to use Cadence Virtuoso? If not, consider yourself lucky.

<comment><USER7> Actually yes, well its predecessor on Solaris in about 1999 and they only make products worse. Anything that comes out of Cadence is a turd. They even ruined pspice recently.

They company I worked for ended up writing their own layout/simulation platform after a bout of Cadence and got absorbed into Mentor Graphics.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> >Have Software Lead Your Hardware Team

Having worked in this sort of environment, this scares me a bit. Software creeps a LOT more easily than hardware. It's too easy for a software person to ask for "small" upgrades that end up being much more trouble than they're worth: upgrading to faster processors, more capacity memory, etc, it can be a real pain. There has to be a balance, and I'm not anxious to have a software person direct a hardware team again.

</comment><comment><USER10> _People think that they can build a game-changer with some really great industrial design and packaging... what really matters is an equally beautiful software system_

Are we missing an aspect here? I feel like we are missing something. I was pretty certain hardware had more aspects that make it compelling than _design_ and _packaging_.

</comment><comment><USER11> I remember seeing that pencil and thinking it was really stupid. I guess it's popular with a certain set?

<comment><USER12> Big deal, every product gets it's-not-for-me-so-it-must-be-stupid comments.

The 'Pencil' product is a good example of the points made in the article. It's a souped-up stylus with some nice features and pretty hardware. But for it to be a sellable and desirable product at $75, it has to tie in well with software. Its app seems to be nice and well-received. They also have a printing service and incorporate social aspects where people share their creations.

It's not uncommon to buy hardware, that on the face of it is very nice, and /would/ be good to use, but getting it to work with your software is just an annoyance. Any company that can convince you going in that the software will be nice to use, is going to have an advantage.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I feel that there is something important here. Sufficiently complex hardware benefits from having the flexibility and adaptability of software. Many years ago I did process control programming of machines in a large expensive clean room assembly line. Amazing machines, custom built, handed materials off to the next machine in the line. It turned out that the materials could move around, just a few millimeters, in their plastic carriers. If the carrier didn't settle in quite snuggly and the materials happened to be sitting in just the wrong place, the machines would smash through all of the materials in the carrier because it didn't "see" them while looking/smashing through the carrier. Of course, the mechanical engineers could fix the optical system that looked for materials, but the software guys were able to solve the problem in just a few hours. They had the machines "wiggle" the carrier when it was loaded to make sure the optical system saw any materials present.

After this experience, the mechanical engineers and software engineers worked together to ensure that there was a comprehensive API for the machines so that software could fix, modify, or enhance the machines operation.

</comment><comment><USER14> >'...the behavior of the car six months from now could be radically different because software can reshape the capability of the hardware continuously...'

yeah, some of these days Musk will reprogram it to fly with existing hardware. I gotta find out which language these guys are using.

</comment><comment><USER15> What does systems-oriented mean in this sentence: "It's the systems-oriented software engineer who understands concepts like power management, radio signals, network communication for small devices" ?

He's not talking about operating systems or embedded systems type stuff, right?

<comment><USER10> Right, to _me_ my first thought was "That's any embedded hardware/software engineer, not a special flavor of CS graduate".

But I think he means someone with the same skill set but a traditional CS background. Not that I quite see what that buys you.

<comment><USER8> I think the author IS talking about plain-old embedded systems engineers. Finding a competent one is apparently rather rare. From what I've heard, most firmware engineers are EEs with only a rudimentary grasp of software engineering practices and CS concepts.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> In my view, there's no hierarchy of disciplines such that any discipline (including marketing) is assured of being "closer" than any other to understanding the potential customer, the social impact of the product, etc.</comment>


Ember 2.10.0 and 2.11.0-Beta Released - <AUTHOR> http://emberjs.com/blog/2016/11/30/ember-2-10-released.html <comment><USER2> This release of Ember.js integrates the new Glimmer rendering engine and stabilizes a year of work by contributors. It is a backwards compatible drop- in upgrade that should also yield a significant performance bump for many use- cases.

Additionally it unblocks other feature work Ember has coming down the pipeline!

For those who haven't been keeping up with Ember or the Glimmer effort, I wrote a list of five things you should know about this release: [http://madhatted.com/2016/11/30/5-things-to-know-about- ember...](http://madhatted.com/2016/11/30/5-things-to-know-about- ember-2-10-and-glimmer-2) It should be approachable even if you don't know the framework well.

Congrats to all the contributors for making such a difficult change so easy for everyone else to use!</comment>


Show HN: F.I.S.H. – Mashup of data sources to help explore state of Washington - <AUTHOR> http://foxtrotindiasierrahotel.com <comment><AUTHOR> F.I.S.H. is a mashup of several data sources to help me explore my adopted state of Washington.

I'm using data provided by the United States Geological Survey, TrailAPI.com, The Beer Mapping Project, ReserveAmerica, Mapbox and OpenStreetMap to build an application to map a few of my favorite things: fishing, camping, hiking, mountain biking, and beer.

Your feedback and wisdom is appreciated,

-joe-

<comment><USER2> Hey Joe, Great job compiling the data.

I noticed the lack of "Distance From ..." on the Campgrounds/Hiking list in a given state. As a user I'd love to find a good camping spot that's nearest to my city.

There is an issue with escape characters in the content (eg: ' is represented as ')

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> UI suggestion: Instead of showing a list of things, just put them on the map

<comment><USER4> I 2nd this suggestion. I want to browse by map. Even a way to draw a box around the map and then have the list filtered by lat/long would be a huge improvement IMO.

Great work thou! Thanks!

<comment><AUTHOR> love the idea of building a geobox for filtering. I'll look into it. thanks for the feedback.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Nice work! I thought I had a pretty good handle on the local beer in Kentucky, but apparently I've missed a few. Any chance you'd build an API around this?

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks @ccallebs. re: API, The Beer Mapping Project has you covered: [https://beermapping.com](https://beermapping.com)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Cool.</comment>


Show HN: Amazon with Interactive Books? - <AUTHOR> http://www.amazon.com/Wing-Chun-Kung-Traditional-Self-Defense/dp/0312187769/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1383876928&sr=8-1&keywords=learn+wing+chun

<comment><AUTHOR> If you hover over the book image or click "Flip to back", you will see the magic.</comment>


Lessons Learned From Previous SSL/TLS Attacks - <AUTHOR> http://eprint.iacr.org/2013/049

<comment><USER2> this is interesting because Chris Meyer (one of the authors of the paper) is going to soon release details about an attack similar to Bleichenbacher that effects the Java SSL implementation and possibly other implementations.

<comment><USER2> someone else released a paper: <http://eprint.iacr.org/2003/052.pdf>

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> There are a surprising number of typos in this paper.</comment>


Ask HN:Resource to learn "web development" independent of a language/framework - <AUTHOR>

Can you guys suggest some good resources (online/offline) to learn web development which is more focussed on the concepts,workflow etc of a web application and not just using a specific language/framework ?
For example, I want to learn the core and depth of:
- How do components of a typical web app architecture interact and what they really mean? Things slike client, server, databases etc.
- Specifications such as WSGI,cgi etc ?<p>- All about sessions including client side, server side, best practices ,cookies etc.
- Request, response and how they really work (again independent of a specific language).
Basically, the depth of building web apps not just high level frameworks etc. Just wondering if there is a good resource. Not interested in front end design though. I already know enough to build CRUD apps (i use python/flask specifically) but really want to get into more depth. <comment><USER2> I'm afraid I can't help on this one, but it is a great question. I used to run internal classes on precisely this subject as we had a lot of junior devs coming in who knew this framework or that framework and really had no idea how the web actually works. (Unfortunately the content I used was left at that company.)

One thing I would emphasise is the importance of HTTP - and whilst I wouldn't recommend anyone actually reading a formal spec from beginning to end, if you really do understand request-response mechanics it will underpin everything else you learn (which is essentially how to process requests and generate responses).

<comment><AUTHOR> Definitely. Those are the kind of things I am interested in. The more I use frameworks and read the source code, the more intrigued I get to get into the depth of the mechanisms. http is surely a key topic.</comment></comment>