How Booking.com manipulates users - <AUTHOR> https://ro-che.info/articles/2017-09-17-booking-com-manipulation <comment><USER2> This is what A/B testing does to a popular site. You test for immediate customer engagement but cannot (easily) test long-term customer loyalty. This is why booking.com has become the largest online hotel booking site in several continents. Nevertheless, I think it will eventually be their downfall.

<comment><USER3> "Frankly, I don't think I am going to stop using Booking.com. I am not aware of any other service with a comparable number of properties and reviews."

It's hard to quantify negative impact of future dealings, but it's even harder to say Booking.com should change their methods when the people aware enough to be annoyed continue to give them money. It's like complaining about Google following you around the web and using GMail.

Either the alternatives just aren't good enough or the negative externalities not severe enough to change consumer behavior. Either of those considerations could change, but until they do it's hard to argue Booking.com should reduce current earnings. Not when people who book a room above a bar that plays music into the early morning blame themselves for not reading the fine print...

<comment><AUTHOR> >"It's hard to quantify negative impact of future dealings, but it's even harder to say Booking.com should change their methods when the people aware enough to be annoyed continue to give them money"

Please tell me how to avoid the duopoly that is Booking.com(Priceline Group) and Expedia in Europe? Especially so when making new booking on short notice. Booking.com has maintained close to 60% market share:

[http://www.hotrec.eu/newsroom/press- releases-1714/dominant-o...](http://www.hotrec.eu/newsroom/press- releases-1714/dominant-online-platforms-gaining-market-share-in-travel-trade- no-signs-of-increased-competition-between-online-travel-agents-unveils- european-hotel-distribution-study.aspx)

<comment><USER4> Why not use TripAdvisor? Not owned by Priceline or Expedia (yet!), nowhere as manipulative as Priceline, and you can actually compare between Priceline and Expedia offerings on the same page. The reviews are much better, rating system is not complicated/hidden and you can sort of ranking/reviews and much better UI with the new redesign.

Disclosure: Ex-Tripadvisor engineer.

<comment><AUTHOR> Why? Trip Advisor is actually one of the biggest contributors to scourge the fake reviews! Anyone can't post reviews on Tripadvisor you don't need to be a verified guest.

'"The effects we find in our study are actually not that small. For example, the mean hotel in our sample has thirty negative reviews. We find that a hotel that is located next to an independent hotel owned by a small owner will have six more fake negative Tripadvisor reviews compared to an isolated hotel."'[1]

Here is PDF link to the report: "Promotional Reviews: An Empirical Investigation of Online Review Manipulation", which is worth a read:

[http://www.nber.org/papers/w18340.pdf](http://www.nber.org/papers/w18340.pdf)

[1] [https://www.forbes.com/sites/avaseave/2014/01/27/when- online...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/avaseave/2014/01/27/when-online- reviews-are-fake-researchers-identify-which-hotels-have-incentive-to- manipulate/#3c71e36d710b)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Review scores are also a bit offset. I have tried to give the absolute lowest to every metric booking.com gave me to rate and the resulting score was 2.5-ish. I was thinking about making a browser extension that rescales the values accordingly but I just made a mental note that a score 7 hotel is in fact a score 6. With this scaling the scores on the lower end gain more as a 3.3 score becomes a 5. Take this into account if you opt for the lower-middle end.

<comment><USER6> I remember a similar thing with Zocdoc. Something like, the appointment was on time (5/5), but my experience was horrible (1/5), so my review "averages to 2.5".

Reminds me of the thing about "it either will happen, or it won't, so that's a 50/50 chance".

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> What if the manpulation was easily avoidable?

The last time this website came up on HN (same issue), I conducted an experiment. The annoyances and manipulation described by the blogger sounded like it relied on Javascript and graphics. I wanted to see how far I could get without using a graphical browser.

I was able to

1\. search hotels,

2\. return a list of properties in CSV/JSON/TXT,

3\. return prices and

4\. book.

It required only a shell script of 107 lines, 308 characters, 2934 bytes. This could be further reduced.

I used only a command line http client, sed and tmux send-key (optional). Further optional: Fully customized HTTP headers, including randomized User- Agent if desired.

I had to store a session cookie for getting price or booking but no cookies were required for searching.

I used no Javascript.

I was able to eliminate all the annoyances and manipulation cited by the blogger.

Conclusion: At least for booking.com all these annoyances can easily be avoided by _choosing the right browser_.

(I did occasionally see the "Only ___ rooms left" message as this is returned in plain text. I did not however see the number change over repeated searches for the same hotel. In any event, I just deleted that line in the output, assuming it is untruthful.)

<comment><USER8> >It required only a shell script of 107 lines, 308 characters, 2934 bytes. This could be further reduced.

Yeah, totally common for average people to do this.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> You seriously had to book a shitty hotel in order to understand that you're being manipulated?

Let me give you the short version of how to book on booking, which is BTW an excellent site for travel arrangements:

1) Ignore anything that makes it sound like you're in a competition. Cheapest price, someone is looking, etc. You're trying to book a hotel room that suits you, not win a race.

2) Any hotel ranked below 9+ has problems. You just need to figure out what the problems are, and those will appear in the reviews section. Don't be lazy - you need to read dozens of reviews. The good news is that you can skip the good reviews - they won't contain what you're looking for. If you book any hotel that has a less than 9 average, make sure you understand what people didn't like about it. If it's over 9, everyone liked it, and you will too.

<comment><USER10> Despite knowing all about dark patterns, I let myself be manipulated into paying $120/night for a room (expensive by Sri Lanka standards). Because of the repeated "only 1 room left!" messages and I didn't want to mess up my anniversary holiday

A few days later, I checked again and the room was going for $50

I mailed them about it. They agreed to refund me $50, so that was nice of them

<comment><USER9> That's actually nice of them... Do not take part in the race :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> To anyone from Booking.com reading this: I'll go elsewhere next time I need to book a room.

Dark patterns may help profits in the short-term, but they're terrible for your brand. Just ask TicketMaster.

It isn't just tech-savvy users that will catch on to this either. If an everyday user uses Booking.com, reads reviews and thinks their room will be great, but then has a bad experience, _they 're going to stop trusting Booking.com's reviews, and stop trusting their brand._ It will only take a few bad experiences to go elsewhere.

<comment><USER12> > Just ask TicketMaster.

TM has been doing pretty well in terms of stock price (not the user happiness) -- probably the metric that they care about. So, I am not sure if that's the best example.

Source: [https://finance.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chd...](https://finance.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1505957358832&chddm=991185&chls=IntervalBasedLine&q=NYSE:LYV&ntsp=1&ei=6RXDWcD2F4260QSUgpjgAg)

<comment><USER13> I don't know if they will keep doing well in terms of stock price If/When Amazon release their ticket master competitor[1]

[1] [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-amazon-com- ticketing/excl...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-amazon-com- ticketing/exclusive-amazon-in-talks-to-offer-event-ticketing-in-u-s-sources- idUSKBN1AQ2DB?il=0)

<comment><USER14> Wait, because Amazon is known to do better than others on UX and lack of dark patterns?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> One of the most useful business school classes I took was entitled "Consumer Behavior" which was a deep dive into behavioral psychology and all the techniques used by marketers / websites to grab our attention. Booking.com rather overtly hits on all the techniques we discussed in detail.

I used to think these techniques were "dirty." But humanity evolved to be responsive to this type of manipulation. It seems the web has accelerated this process with the ability to A/B test on a massive scale. All the big websites exploit cognitive biases to drive engagement - facebook, google, twitter, instagram, netflix, youtube.

This is one of the reasons I'm convinced knowledge of behavioral economics is one of the most critical pieces of knowledge to have in the early 21st century - not only can you use it to drive engagement on your own platforms, but you can learn what tell-tales you are biased to react to, and resist accordingly.

<comment><USER16> Not sure I understand your logic. Are you saying that these tactics aren't "dirty" because as human beings we are very susceptible to them? One would argue they are unethical precisely because of this. Or do you mean it's ok because everyone else does it?

<comment><USER15> As someone who stove to be "rational" in everything I did, and dismissed the power of emotions in human decision making, coming face to face with the effectiveness of persuasion made me realize that winning friends and influencing people was about speaking a language that resonated with actual humans. The way people behave and respond has been studied for generations - and the best salespeople in all realms either intuitively or deliberately have discovered what makes people lean one way or another. It's a huge mistake to dismiss the biases that define us, but rather we should embrace and understand their impact.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I tried scraping booking.com once, it quickly became obvious that they use many 'dark patterns' in tricking visitors into booking quickly. Not using cookies was the most efficient method in discovering the 'real' price of an accomodation.

But is not just booking.com, 99% of airline ticket sites use the same techniques.

Basically what they do is raising the price on each subsequent visit, sometimes also lowering the amount of 'available' tickets. This creates a sense of urgency.

My advise is always: shop for the hotel/ticket/whatever you like, then open that URL in a new private/incognito tab, so you get a lower price.

<comment><USER18> Nah, hotels are now manipulating prices like airlines, with computers responding in near real-time to perceived demand. As demand increases, so does price. Multiple searches show a rise in demand, so the price goes up, even if there really was just one person searching.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> I noticed Udemy also manipulates users by saying that x course is 80-90% off but only for one more day!!!!... until you realize it's been that exact same price for weeks/months.

I understand it's not new to have the retail price be higher than the 'sale' price (for example, clothes and furniture), but even at clearance outlets, the price difference while large is rarely as dramatic nor as prolonged.

<comment><USER20> Udemy is also huge for having a "One time $10/$15 coupon!" that "expires in 3 days" and will immediately be replaced by another one. All you really have to do is google "Udemy coupon" to get any class on the site for $10 or $15 depending on what the current coupon is.

This also works for the craft store chain Michael's but to a lesser extent. They almost ALWAYS have a 40-50% off coupon in their weekly ad. So if you find something that you want but it's expensive, you can usually get it for half off. It's pretty awesome!

<comment><USER3> Hi/Lo pricing is great that way. Harbor Freight always sends 20% off coupons. It's a wonderful technique for running price discrimination.

The frequency of running offers, and which offers to run, are just business details that can be tested and optimized. Some firms are a lot better at it than others. But at its core it's not fundamentally different than coupon mailers or rebate offers.

If you ever buy furniture for sticker price you're doing something wrong...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Airbnb does this too. No matter where or when you search for, you'll see a notification saying something like:

"Only 13% of listings are left for these dates. We recommend booking a place soon."

As a random example, apparently Kamloops, BC is filling up fast for Dec 3-6 (midweek in the middle of winter). And so is Flint, MI on Feb 19th, a Tuesday.

<comment><USER22> My biggest problem with Airbnb is opaque pricing at the search page. They will claim a room is say $250/night, but after fees, taxes and cleaning charges, it might be $400/night. Cleaning charges in particular can vary widely. Even though Airbnb knows the exact travel dates and hence the exact amount, they still choose to show the lower daily price rather than the actual. I consider this a dark pattern too.

<comment><USER23> Yeah. Just like in the US they don't show taxes (which vary!) on products in retail shops. It's obnoxious, and I don't understand how this is legal, even in the US.

<comment><USER24> The difference here is that you can easily calculate taxes based on the price you can see since taxes don't vary in the same state/province (because this also applies to Canada...).

On Airbnb, it's up to the property owner to decide cleaning fees and such, and there isn't any rule about what that includes (that I know of).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> I just block a lot of this booking.com noise with uBlock. These are my filters so far:

      www.booking.com##.sr_rooms_left_wrap.only_x_left
      www.booking.com##.sr-booked-x-times.clearfix.lbsr
      www.booking.com##.soldout_property

<comment><USER26> Here's a little bit more:

      www.booking.com##.soldout_property
      www.booking.com##.sr_rooms_left_wrap.only_x_left
      www.booking.com##.lastbooking
      www.booking.com##.sr--x-times-booked
      www.booking.com##.in-high-demand-not-scarce
      www.booking.com##.top_scarcity
      www.booking.com##.hp-rt-just-booked
      www.booking.com##.cheapest_banner_content > *
      www.booking.com##.hp-social_proof
      www.booking.com##.fe_banner__red.fe_banner__w-icon.fe_banner__scale_small.fe_banner
      www.booking.com##.urgency_message_x_people.urgency_message_red
      www.booking.com##.rackrate
      www.booking.com##.urgency_message_red.altHotels_most_recent_booking
      www.booking.com##.fe_banner__w-icon-large.fe_banner__w-icon.fe_banner
      www.booking.com##.smaller-low-av-msg_wrapper
      www.booking.com##.small_warning.wxp-sr-banner.js-wxp-sr-banner

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> Wow - the New Union. I live in Manchester and the place is literally right at the top end of one of Manchester's main clubbing districts (the gay village). "Lively and central" is an understatement. It has a ropey reputation locally as a pub, but you couldn't pay me to stay there. I can see why he's pissed.

I will caveat that I've had some excellent experiences with Booking, but always with very careful cross-referencing with other sites.

</comment><comment><USER28> Oh it's not only booking.com

The newest scam is: flight comparison websites show you a low price, but only if you pay with a VISA. Switch to MasterCard and it's an additional 20-30€. But then you invested in the whole booking process already.

Amazon Prime: Try to cancel it. They make it sound as if you lose Prime right away. There's an option "remind me 3 days before next payment" that suggests you should think more about your decision. Only after you cancelled, they tell you that you lose your benefits only after your Prime subscription expires.

<comment><USER29> I booked with AMOMA (another hotel site) and now they email me a "10% off" voucher every week. The only thing is that to claim it I need to follow a link in the email. When I follow the link, the prices of all the rooms increase, and the room price I already had open in another tab suddenly becomes "unavailable". I've also clicked the link to remove me from their mailing list half a dozen times, but they never remove me.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> I was a vast user of Booking.com (as I travel a lot).

My advice: go to booking.com, find the hotel you want to stay at. Search their phone number or email, contact the hotel directly and you'll get a much better price (15% is booking.com fee).

Downside to this is if you are not booking standard 5 star hotels etc that are meant to have some level of professionalism etc, you might end up getting treated worse just because smaller hotels etc do care a lot about their booking.com rating so they tend to treat booking.com customers better than others (my wife owns 3 hotels, 2 of them happen to be of a smaller size and in reality when they have a booking from booking.com they tend to do anything to please them as opposed to bookings directly from their website).

</comment><comment><USER31> Some airline ticket booking sites still track you and increase the ticket price on return visits, optimised to certain intervals. Many in the industry call it "dynamic pricing."

It made the news a few years back[1] but you can still see it sometimes in a few different industries. You can get into arguments with people about whether marketing as a whole is an enterprise built on manipulation, but this is quite clearly manipulative.

[1]: [https://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/2010/aug/07/computer-...](https://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/2010/aug/07/computer- cookies-booking-online)

<comment><USER32> It's interesting that Amazon tried this in its very first years, but had to give up due to customer backlash. I wonder why the practice survives in travel services.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> Well, I am joining Booking.com as frontend engineer this November and this makes me a bit worried. The only reason I chose to join Booking was Amsterdam (I wanted to live/work outside India for a couple of years).

I have also heard the tech stack is kind of old and so learning-wise it might be an issue. Any tips on surviving and keeping the learning curve straight from a current/former employee?

<comment><USER34> Congrats first of all. However did you tell Booking about your motivation to join them - "The only reason I chose to join Booking was Amsterdam (I wanted to live/work outside India for a couple of years)". Its pretty standard for companies to ask that question.

<comment><USER33> Nah. That's one of the major reasons. Others being - working with a diverse culture, working on a big scale such as theirs, and building things based on data rather than opinions.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> Booking.com 's website is awful. They are still stick in 1995. They do product development solely based on A/B tests. That's how the product is so crap.

But they have a Monopoly (almost). So that's why people keep using them.

</comment><comment><USER36> IOW - how more or less every e-commerce (especially aggregation services) site tries to get you to spend your money _there_

<comment><AUTHOR> Using Amazon as an example of an e-commerce company - when buying an item on Amazon neither the gaming of ratings and reviews or the annoying and manufactured "sense of urgency" as stated in the post, seem to be part of the experience.

The booking.com experience feels like doing business with a sleazy used car salesman.

<comment><USER37> Yes, Amazon may get flak for other reasons but I have found the experience of shopping on them to be very clean and pleasant. To be clear, I am talking about the experience of finding a product and proceeding to checkout and payment, not about any potential issues about fake products and such.

<comment><AUTHOR> Agreed, that's pretty much what I meant.

Although even the few times when I received questionable products the issue was resolved pretty quickly and painlessly with either the merchant or Amazon.com

Contrast that with booking.com where all communications between you and the merchant(hotel) have to filter through booking.com and take 24 hours at a minimum to get a response.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> They similarly totally lie about matching the lowest price. Had the misfortune of booking through them once, then I found the same hotel for a much lower price on another site (makemytrip) so I sent a screenshot to the support.

After a day they outright DENIED to honor this "Lowest Price Guarantee" with some lame excuse. When I told them that I'll go to the small claims court I never heard back from them. Don't believe a word on this site.

<comment><USER39> Did you pay for the room with a credit card charge to Booking.com? If so it would be easier to dispute part of the charge with your card issuer instead of going to small claims court.

<comment><USER38> Yes i did pay with a credit card. Unfortunately unlike US, disputing a cc charge here isn't that easy either. At that time the policy was to take a printout and then go to the bank and submit it there in person (same reason i never went to small claims court too). Seemed like too much hassle.

I instead wowed to never book another hotel on their site (using agoda ever since) and telling friends and posting on forums (it was on the frontpage on reddit india for 1 day) about how they cheated me. I think that must have costed them more money than they cheated me out by not honoring their guarantee.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> Being a little disillusioned about the world these days I would assume this has a purpose.

My guess is this: Booking.com already knows that they are fighting a losing battle against AirBnB. So instead of trying to win it seriously, they go to make the biggest profit they can out of their situation by strongly focussing on the idiots. With idiots you have two advantages:

(a) they stay anyways no matter how shitty you treat them. They have different reasons but one of them is that they are simply used to your service and don't want to learn a new one.

(b) they believe at least some of the stuff you put on these websites.

(c) in exchange for not feeling like a total loser for a moment they are willing to pay more.

For an observant booker this website is really less and less useful. For once you can try the alternative and get a much better experience, and on the other you can often just book a room on-site after you arrive. When Booking.com just hands out a reserveration without prepayment don't think the hotel wouldn't give your room to someone else if enough customers arrive at their desk first. Money now is better than (maybe) money later. The only exception may be when you go to the big fair of your industry and the whole town is booked out.

<comment><USER41> In Europe, I would say the opposite is happening. AirBnB is being pushed out of or held down in many cities by local authorities. In the last two years I have stayed 50 nights or so in rooms booked through Bookings.com or Hotels.com and only 2 nights in rooms booked through AirBnB, and it's now almost two years ago. I had a good stay in the ArBnB booked apartment but the only reason I used AirBnB in the first place was that I couldn't find a hotel in the city since all hotels were booked. Most people I know have never or only once used AirBnB.

AirBnB is fun to try but I wouldn't rely on someones apartment for my vacation.

<comment><USER42> This has not been my experience living in Amsterdam. Airbnb seems to be growing despite all the regulations that the municipality is trying to put in place [0]. And at least in my social group, Airbnb is vastly preferred to hotels, because of the more personal experience and getting to live in a real neighborhood.

[0] [http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2017/08/amsterdam- airb...](http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2017/08/amsterdam-airbnb-rules- widely-flouted-agency-use-widespread/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> I work in the travel industry as a developer and my current task is to make our booking engine more "bookingcom-like" (yes, this is exactly how the requirements were formulated by product management).

To achieve this task I did a small research of other travel web sites and I realised that most of them added such psychological elements lately.

Today I found this _gold_ article and forwarded it to the product managers, hehe :)

</comment><comment><USER44> I've always wondered if some of these tactics are kosher and legal. Especially the ones that say 'someone just booked this' or the notifications on ecommerce sites that say 'X bought this in the last hour'. Most of the ecommerce ones are just fake data meant to entice the shopper into buying into urgency.

<comment><USER45> Here's the FTC's "truth in advertising" guide, which has links to the primary- source documents: [https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business- center/guidance/adv...](https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business- center/guidance/advertising-faqs-guide-small-business)

The most questionable mainstream ad I've seen recently is by Amazon.com, which somehow manages to convince employees that it's "Earth's most customer-centric company" while concurrently using some of the sleaziest dark patterns of any merchant, small or large. Spot the $99/year recurring fee on this page: [https://twitter.com/troyd/status/902673505157648384](https://twitter.com/troyd/status/902673505157648384)

<comment><USER20> If that legitimately violates the FTC's rules then I've seen a lot of sites in worse violation. Because honestly that $99/yr is pretty obvious in that screenshot. It definitely doesn't make it obvious but it is in plain text on that site.

<comment><USER45> Quoting from the FTC page that I linked to:

> Nor can advertisers use fine print to contradict other statements in an ad > or to clear up misimpressions that the ad would leave otherwise. For > example, if an ad for a diet product claims "Lose 10 pounds in one week > without dieting," the fine-print statement "Diet and exercise required" is > insufficient to remedy the deceptive claim in the ad.

> …

> Most importantly, if you are concerned that a disclaimer or disclosure may > be necessary to clarify a claim, evaluate your ad copy and substantiation > carefully to ensure that you are not misleading consumers.

Obviously it's subjective whether this ad violates any FTC laws (and presumably, Amazon's legal counsel reviewed it and deemed it worth the risk), but presence of a statement in fine print (or as you stated, that "it is in plain text") isn't the deciding factor.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> I've just been booking directly from hotels I trust because of this. Used to use hotels.com but they've gotten really bad recently. Can costs a bit more from the hotel but most of the time price is on par. End up getting more room upgrades when booking directly anyways - at least with hilton.

<comment><USER47> Me too -- this is a very important point. Often the hotel's direct rate will be the same as advertised on hotels.com. Of course you lose the ~10% rebate by not getting rewards points, but since the hotel is effectively earning 30% more from you, they're much more likely to give you a complimentary or discounted upgrade.

So if that sort of thing matters to you, I can also strongly suggest booking direct.

(Note: You do generally have to ask, but I've had good experiences. Do it on- site @ checkin, and I basically say the above -- "Hey I booked direct so you earned 30% more from me. Can you offer me an upgrade to an un-used room since I'm here now?")

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> I absolutely loath Booking.com's UX.

Whenever it's possible, I use something else, like HostelWorld. Their interface is clean, to the point, and the reviews and ratings can actually be trusted.

I'm happy someone did this website. I just came back from a long trip and every time somebody asked me why I hate Booking.com, I pointed exactly to some of the points that were made there. The fake sense of urgency, the cluttered UI. And the cherry on top: The fact they display the "total cost of all nights" in the results, instead of the per-night cost. That's not a misleading UX, it's just a bad UX decision.

But because of it's popularity amongst accommodation owners and travelers, its fall is unlikely.

<comment><USER49> > The fact they display the "total cost of all nights" in the results, instead > of the per-night cost. That's not a misleading UX, it's just a bad UX > decision.

I prefer the total cost in the results, since that's what I'll ultimately pay. Why do you prefer per night? Doesn't that make you do the multiplication in your head?

<comment><USER50> I agree it's better to display the "total cost of stay" in the search results, however that isn't what Booking.com displays. As OP said they display the "total cost of all nights" which excludes taxes and cleaning/service fees.

A few weeks ago I stayed in an apartment in Austria which was €49 for one night, with a €45 cleaning fee... I thought that seemed a bit crazy (ok there were 7 of us, so still pretty good), but clicking through other results I saw all the properties in this area had similar fees. One had the same price per night and a €70 cleaning fee! I guess it's a way to avoid taxes or such.

<comment><USER51> 45€ doesn't sound like much. For a complete apartment cleanup, including bed linen and etc, you need at least three or four hours, so that's around 11-15€/hour. Seems quite reasonable for Austria.

<comment><USER50> Yeah for Austria it doesn't seem like a bad price, it's just weird that the price is nearly the same as the accomodation fee. And as a Brit the idea of any kind of service fee is pretty foreign in the first place (why not just include it in the advertised price?).

<comment><USER51> It's a fixed cost, so they use a fixed fee. If they just added a percentage to the price per night, people who stayed more days would be paying more despite not requiring more cleaning.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER52> I don't get it why people complain all the time and still use it? Even their parent company Priceline UX is much better, then there's Expedia and other sites. I would never book anything on Booking because it's plain ugly and keeps design from 1998, even Craigslist looks modern in comparison.

Their hiring and interview process, at least in product management - it looked like they are fishing for fresh ideas on what to A/B test on their website. All the talk was focused around it. Answering the questions they didn't give a single direct answer only extremely vague ones. Red flags all around.

</comment><comment><USER53> Briscoes (a homeware shop in New Zealand [http://www.briscoes.co.nz/](http://www.briscoes.co.nz/)), does this. Just looking at their website today, everything in store is 30-60% off sticker price.

Seems great, until you realise that literally almost every day, they have a similar sale. There's always massive discounts for something in store. I have literally never paid full price, or anything close to it.

</comment><comment><USER54> I look at a number of sites when researching hotels, but the final straw for me was when the prices on Booking.com's page were actually _higher_ than the prices offered by the hotels directly.

I repeatedly verified this on numerous dates, with numerous hotels -- Booking.com's super-exceptional "deals" were occasionally up to 20% more expensive than a direct booking with the hotel, for the exact same room type.

Has anybody else seen this?

</comment><comment><USER55> This and the recent Ticketmaster expose make me wonder: is it possible to objectively identify dark UI patterns like this via a browser extension? Usually I can try to see through them, but something that flags stuff like this with a non-obtrusive warning would be nice to add to the list of extensions I automatically throw on new installs for family members (that list currently includes PrivacyBadger and uBlock Origin)

<comment><AUTHOR> What was the Ticketmaster expose?

Not that I would be the least surprised by any kind of scandal from those thugs but I haven't heard anything recently.

<comment><USER55> There was a HN thread that was linked to an article about it a month or so ago, but I can't find it now. You can also check out the top comments on this thread: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13312629](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13312629)

The time ticker "feature" is what was referenced in the other HN article from a month ago.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER56> Also a couple of years ago we discovered that Booking shows different prices from different locations and different devices. Prices are higher at some hotels for Mac/iPhone users and Western Europe/US customers. Not sure if they're still doing it, but it's easily testable if someone wants to investigate.

<comment><USER57> Showed me the same results (price wise, order was different) in Chrome Incognito on Win 10 desktop and Android.

<comment><USER56> They're still doing it.

Screenshots taken literally seconds apart refreshed multiple times to make sure it's still the same:

[http://eugene.lt/booking/1.png](http://eugene.lt/booking/1.png) macOS on a MacBook Pro from New York, NY (via a DigitalOcean droplet VPN)

[http://eugene.lt/booking/2.png](http://eugene.lt/booking/2.png) Fresh Windows 10 VM from Vilnius, Lithuania

<comment><USER58> I think you've got the links the wrong way around.

But this is basic market segmentation, just based on the person buying and not on the product being sold. Hence why it seems more scummy.

<comment><USER56> Thanks, fixed it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER59> I'm not surprised that they use all manner of "hey! buy this now!" tactics, like many other travel and shopping sites.

I _am_ surprised that people use a single website to choose where they're going to stay. I never book an unknown hotel without checking reviews on a few different sites (usually TripAdvisor, yay pics, and if in the US then Yelp, yay complainers). And I always check prices at least on the hotel's own site so I know what a discount is and what's not.

For me the likes of Booking, Hotels, and Kayak are for map-search and the actual purchase experience. And for the latter I'm pretty happy with Booking, I use them often.

If the message here is that the travel business gets sleazier the higher you climb up the aggregation pyramid, then yes, true, and I can't remember it ever not being thus.

</comment><comment><USER60> Lots of complains, but people underestimate how much money, time and effort the company spends on a customer service. It's a war out there, traveloka raising half a billion dollars, "old" companies must fight back.

Not only their prices are usually the lowest, but they also offer matching prices.

The room was not as advertised? Booking would at least offer a coupon for next booking.

Hotel was overbooked? They would find you a room of no lower standard, in similar location, and they cover the difference. It happens that if there's a big event in the city, they might cover your 5* hotel if you booked a shitty 2* room.

Many small properties have shady businesses, booking.com protects you from this.

They might not use the shiniest tech, but their customer service (which is biggest portion of the work force) is top notch.

Source: shared bed with one of the cs agents

<comment><USER61> Oh really? Good customer service? How about this:

[https://medium.com/@ilyadoroshin/bad-ux-how-booking-com- dece...](https://medium.com/@ilyadoroshin/bad-ux-how-booking-com-deceives- clients-5dc9e9485f32)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15152155](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15152155)

</comment></comment><comment><USER62> I thought the service was great at first - no hassle reservations with easy cancellation. That is until they billed for me a hotel I never stayed at. Ended up having to go through Amex and chargeback the charge since I had clearly cancelled it months before. It's a shame.

</comment><comment><USER63> I travel regularly and Booking.com is my place to go for hotel reservations. It had to "learn" how to use Booking.com in a comfortable way.

For example, I learned to ignore the continuous push for urgency, I sort hotels based on user rating instead of Bookings choice, and I check TripAdvisor for reviews instead of Booking.com itself.

So why would I even use Booking.com? Apart from it having one of the largest offerings, it just love that the whole process of booking, paying, and checking in is so simple and consistent, no matter where in the world I book a hotel or for what purpose (business or leisure). That is what makes me come back to Booking.com, and that's what I wish Booking.com would spend most of their time on.

</comment><comment><USER64> On the subject of fake reviews, I've recently started using Fakespot [0] with Amazon and Yelp. Sometimes making a decision for which goods to buy can be tricky, so it's really helpful to filter out a few shady options. Although, honestly, I don't think it makes much difference in most cases.

Are there any trusted review services for travel locations? Something like Consumer Report, but for travel. Although I don't know where their quality levels stand nowadays, I know my parents used to swear by em 10 to 20 years ago.

[0] [https://www.fakespot.com](https://www.fakespot.com)

<comment><AUTHOR> On Amazon I usually just make sure they are a verified purchaser of the product before considering a review. Does Fakepost offer something beyond that for Amazon?

Yelp I understand though as I don't think there is anything like a "verified diner."

<comment><USER64> It helps filter down the initial list of items you evaluate. For example, you might see two items with 1000 reviews and similar scores, but one of the items might have an inflated score due to review farming.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER65> The downsides of A/B testing. Unless of course you have confidence in your brand and decision making to not always trust users and the short term bottom line.

</comment><comment><USER66> viagogo.com is a great example of user manipulation. They take what booking.com has done and 10x it. I've bought tickets on there (and got ripped off because they told me the wrong pickup location), and its a total shit show. They make it seem like there are all these real time updates going on, and really pushing you to BUY NOW, but I'm pretty sure its all a scam to urge you to buy as quickly as possible.

</comment><comment><USER67> Seems more of a rant on marketing and dark patterns, but somehow blames Booking.com for things that happens everywhere in the industry.

</comment><comment><USER68> There is a counter-movement emerging. During the techfestival in Copenhagen 150 people (Charles Adler, Peter Sunde, Jerry Michalsky to name a few) got together to formulate the Copenhagen Letter on Tech - read it here: [https://copenhagenletter.org/](https://copenhagenletter.org/)

</comment><comment><USER69> That's why you gotta use Expedia or Google

<comment><USER37> Expedia does "n people booked this location" and "price of this flight expected to rise by x%" ALL the time.

<comment><USER70> neither one of those is misleading or harmful if true.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER71> I had a dev friend take a job at booking.com he hates it. I suppose the company is shitty at all levels.

</comment><comment><USER72> I recently discovered (literally) an apart hotel that had bed linen excluded and could be added for 10 euro per bed. This was a first time on Booking with this trick (common on Airbnb) and they did notify me about it in they dark depths of popups and expand to see more.

<comment><USER73> That what I hate most about Booking : you expect an hotel room with private bathroom and they propose a rental flat or a bed in a dormitory.

I often visit the tourist-office website to find an hotel.

</comment></comment><comment><USER74> I regularly use booking.com and I think what they're doing is rational,not manipulation.

</comment><comment><USER75> I just spent 3 weeks travelling the USA and we used Booking.com to see what was around. But then we went directly to the hotel's site to make the booking and you know what? Same price, if not slightly cheaper in some (not all) instances.

<comment><USER76> The hotel's site may well be a facade and you're still buying through booking.com

<comment><USER75> Reference?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER77> these rules apply to all PriceLine sites, its not just booking, but because booking either applied them first (and booking is one of the most profitable priceline companies) or they made the most money off them, all the others follow suit and add them to theirs

I used to work for RentalCars and as soon as booking put the "someone just booked" on the site, RentalCars had to follow suit even if the last car booked was 3 days ago

<comment><USER32> I knew it, thanks for confirming. I use RentalCars a lot and I'm happy with the service, but the "someone just booked" just felt fake. The weird part is that, even though I was convinced it was fake, it still had an impact on me.

</comment></comment><comment><USER78> TripAdvisor supports booking on hotels and they show all of the comments. Plus, there are much more ratings and comments than anywhere else.

<comment><AUTHOR> TripAdvisor also supports fake and unverified reviews:

[https://www.forbes.com/sites/avaseave/2014/01/27/when- online...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/avaseave/2014/01/27/when-online- reviews-are-fake-researchers-identify-which-hotels-have-incentive-to- manipulate/#3c71e36d710b)

<comment><USER79> There are merits to both systems (reviews from anyone vs you have to have booked through booking.com), the biggest one is that if you visited somewhere but booked directly, or through another OTA, you can still leave your opinion.

More here: [https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/vpages/review_mod_fraud_detect...](https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/vpages/review_mod_fraud_detect.html)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER80> Wonder if there is a potential block-chain based business opportunity for reviewing stuff, where all information would be transparent.

</comment><comment><USER81> Would anyone pay a monthly fee for some dev to maintain some chrome/ff/safari ext that simply cleans up booking.com?

<comment><USER81> I am actually thinking of having an online directory of specific website cleanup extensions which power users of said websites should be more than happy to pay for :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER82> I can't imagine recognizing all that shit and then concluding with an expectation to keep using a service like that. Wow

</comment><comment><USER83> This post has some decent points about reviews and the fine print, but the rest comes off as a bit precious.

I travel a lot and have used Booking.com to save myself quite a bit of money over the years. I still regularly compare their prices with other sites and they are pretty consistently cheaper than competing sites.

The "hurry" parts of their site do induce a little anxiety but I tend to also appreciate the real time information so I know I get the room I want.

<comment><USER84> The real time information includes bookings made months away from your desired dates.

</comment></comment><comment><USER85> There should be some browser extension or set of filters for uBlock to hide these shady parts of Booking.

</comment><comment><USER86> Using this information you could probably make a browser extension to make the website more honest.

</comment><comment><USER87> "I am not aware of any other service with a comparable number of properties and reviews."

Trivago?

</comment><comment><USER88> Guy books the cheapest hotel he can find, smack in the middle of the "vibrant gay village". Unsuprisingly, it's noisy and he doesn't get any sleep. Blames the UX of the booking website, because somehow the website forced him into trying to sleep in the middle of a permanent Mardi Gras. Suck it up, snowflake.

<comment><USER89> Does the author's motivation have any bearing on the facts of Booking.com's website behaviour?

</comment></comment><comment><USER90> >YouTube autoplays more videos to keep us from leaving.

The sole purpose of doing so is to get more ad shows. See, a person leaves his computer with YT running or mutes it in the background, and returns half an hour later while google already sold 10 or so ad shows. When autoplay is on, yt tend to put shorter videos into your view que

</comment><comment><USER91> Wow, things got shady at booking.com since I last visited the site last year.

</comment><comment><USER92> Anyone have stats on their user-base/ geographic breakdown? Thanks.

</comment><comment><USER93> What good alternatives with prices as low?

</comment><comment><USER94> Greasemonkey This.

var count_removed = 0; var active = true;

var elements_that_suck = [ "sr--x-times-booked", "raf-promo-block", "msg_low_avail_block", "sr_no_desc_users", "free-cancel-persuasion", "sr- badges__row", "fe_banner__sr_soldout_property", "only_x_left", "in-high- demand-not-scarce", "soldout_property", "sr_room_reinforcement", "sr-booked-x- times",

      "b-form__booker-type",
      "mltt mlttd",
      "vpm_3rfte-container",
      "fe_banner",
      "ribbon",
      "save-percentage-wrapper",

      "urgency_message_red",
      "cheapest_banner_content",
      "sr_no_desc_users",
      "sr_compset",
      "payment-method-filter-banner",
      "b_tt_holder_4",
      "lbsr",
      "only_x_left",

      "-scarcity_indicator-pss_scarcity_1_left",
      "hp-description--property-name-top-ranked",
      "thisRoomAvailabilityNew",
      "green_condition",
      "hp-rt-just-booked",
      "urgency_message_red",
    	"usp-hotelpage--chains",
    	"hp-blue-sans-rack-rate",
    	"crossedout-price-icon",
    	"-genius-full-logo",
    	"hp-description-sub-header",
    	"hp-availability-block-usp",
    	"hp_sidebar_usp_box",
    	"public_transport",
    	"non_refundable_nr_blue",
    	"genius_block_brand",
    	"hp-lists-reserve",
    	"js-hp-wl-sidebar",
    	"listticker",
    	"hp-social_proof-quote_author"

];

var index_page_elements = [ "specialsblock", "latest-reviews-stream", "sb- searchbox__subtitle-text", "sh-postcard-content-title", "index-nav_container" ];

var genius_elements = [ "ge-search-first ge-search-first-www", "genius-sort- icon", "ge-iconfont-extended", "genius_member_text" ];

var businessbookers_elements = [ "bbtool-index-teaser-banner" ];

var raf_elements = [ "raf-promo-banner", "js-raf-center-bar-link", "sidebar- raf-widget__container" ];

var search_page_elements = [ "all-inclusive-ribbon", "preferred-program-icon", "mouse_hover_general_rackrate", "-scarcity_indicator-pss_scarcity_1_left", "-scarcity_indicator-pss_scarcity_2_left", "-scarcity_indicator- pss_scarcity_3_left", "-scarcity_indicator-pss_scarcity_4_left", "-scarcity_indicator-pss_scarcity_5_left", "-scarcity_indicator- pss_scarcity_6_left", "-scarcity_indicator-pss_scarcity_7_left", "vpm_nd_links", "similar_destination", "footerconstraint-inner", "try_another_search_3", "cheaper-than-average", "district_link visited_link", "pub_trans" ];

var hotel_page_elements = [ "d-deal__dod-countdown", "d-deal", "d-deal-b", "hp-low_sidebar_to_content", "hp_cs_back_to_search", "althotels_fullwidth", "recent_property_reviews_block", "hp_useful_links_header", "hp-description-- property-expectation", "hp-good-segment-facility-score", "hp_facilities_score_hl", "bpg_logo", "pp_bpg_tooltip_holder", "wrap- hotelpage-top__book top-book-form", "best-review-score" ];

var elements_to_remove = []; elements_to_remove.push( genius_elements ); elements_to_remove.push( raf_elements ); elements_to_remove.push( elements_that_suck ); elements_to_remove.push( index_page_elements ); elements_to_remove.push( businessbookers_elements ); elements_to_remove.push( search_page_elements ); elements_to_remove.push( hotel_page_elements );

setInterval( function() {

      if( active) {
    	  elements_to_remove.forEach( function( element_group, idx, arr) {

    	  element_group.forEach(
      			function (el, idx, arr) {
        		  	remove_elements_by_classname( el );
      		 	});

     	  });

      	}

      	console.log("Removed " + count_removed);

}, 1000);

function remove_elements_by_classname( name ) {

      var elements_with_class = document.getElementsByClassName( name );
      count_removed += elements_with_class.length;

      for( var i=0; i<elements_with_class.length; i++ ) {
    	  elements_with_class[i].style.display = "none";
      }

}

var prices = document.getElementsByClassName("rooms-table-room-price"); for(var i=0; i<prices.length; i++){ prices[i].style.color = "deepskyblue"; } prices = document.getElementsByClassName("red-actual-rack-rate"); for(var i=0; i<prices.length; i++){ prices[i].style.color = "skyblue"; }

</comment><comment><USER95> I thought about interviewing for them in Amsterdam. The recruiter put me in touch with one of their people and she explained to me everything was in Perl, there were little to no automated tests and developers often pushed straight to production. I said I had only worked in perl shops that were migrating from it to Scala or Python. She said, "Well we have no intention of moving."

Like I say with all recruiters, I said I was interested. I thought about it and everything was a red flag. Sure I'd get to live in Amsterdam and stay in Europe with my girlfriend, but ... that sounds like the ultimate shit job. I'd have to endure that until I worked out whatever visa contract they'd have or find someone else to sponsor me with a non-shit job.

So I just ignore the recruiter when he calls .. and ignore him .. and ignore him. Dude calls every fucking day for like four weeks straight; after I had already moved back to America. Most recruiters would take the hint after three failed calls. I can't imagine how desperate they must be. Then I heard from a former co-worker one of our other buddies, a Kiwi, had taken a job with them .. leaving NZ to go work there. He's still there ... hope it's not shit.

<comment><USER96> How about being a grownup and actually take the damn call? Could you not just tell him you weren't interested rather than being so ignorant? For a whole month I mean, really?

<comment><USER97> Part of being a grownup is doing whatever the hell you want. If you don't want to pick up that phone (and have a potentially awkward conversation with some sleazebag recruiter that's trying to sell you on a shit job you don't want), _don 't_.

This reminds me of the people that think women (or men) that don't want to go out with them owe them some kind of explanation. No, dude. Get some social awareness and move the fuck on.

<comment><USER98> > Part of being a grownup is doing whatever the hell you want

No, that's being a child. Being a grown up means not only thinking about yourself

<comment><USER99> My thoughts exactly. Unfortunately these days it's clear not everyone feels that way.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER100> I only using these sites of booking for getting information. After I double check on the website of the hotel, price, go to the location with Google map to see what is nearby, never had a problem. Nice analyse I would like them more.</comment>


Ad City: A GTA-Style Multiplayer Browser Game Written in JS - <AUTHOR> http://bad.city

<comment><USER2> This is so terrible, it's good.</comment>


The Thoralf plugin: for your fancy type needs - <AUTHOR> https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=3242754 <comment><USER2> I think that an ability to extend (or, in a sense narrow down) the language via compiler plugins says something good about the compiler's architecture.

GHC was designed as a research-friendly compiler, and it seems to stay so.

</comment><comment><USER3> ^ Haskell ;)</comment>


Ask HN: How do Hackers kill time when bored on weekend? - <AUTHOR>

I usually watch some tech-talk which is not too techie. <comment><USER3> Spending time with my girlfriend. Usually trips around the Bay Area (it's amazing what's there within an hour's driving distance), dining, cooking (it's actually more expensive then dining out, but well worth it in terms of using exactly the ingredients that you want), movies.

Coding. Right now I am an airport (waiting for a flight) implementing something (a CS concept) I've implemented at work in Java, in OCaml just to refresh my knowledge of OCaml (and my understanding of what I actually did). I'll write toys just for fun of it, for myself. It's okay to re-invent the wheel if you have to, do it for enjoyment.

Reading. Can be technical, can be non-fiction, can be fiction. Presently I am reading Richard Rhodes' Dark Sun and Benjamin Pierce's Types and Programming Languages.

Keep in mind that your brain is a lot like a heap of a run-time with generational garbage collection or a log-structured file system / database. Occasionally, the throughput at which you can write and read information from it goes down as it moves the bytes around and deletes the un-needed stuff. If you never let it do that, you'll run out of space / your knowledge will become incredibly fragmented.

It's important that if _if you don't feel like being productive_ (read: your NewGen is full) you _shouldn't force yourself to be_. Go for a walk, watch a movie, work out, go out and eat (even if by yourself). I wonder how much money companies lose due to the rule or convention that one should work in a single contiguous chunk during the day (sitting comatose at their screen, when they should be taking a nap or going on a walk).

</comment><comment><USER4> I thought most hackers spend their free time hacking ;-)

I'm watching baseball today however Go Giants!

<comment><USER5> Yep - usually I read, but today I was cheering my home team as they became division champions. I'm not really into sports but every year I dare to hope this might be year the pennant finally comes to San Francisco.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> By posting, upvoting and commenting on self-referential rhetorical questions on HN, apparently :-).

</comment><comment><USER7> Wow....bored. I remember that phenomena. Used to happen to me ever so occasionally before I had kids. Now, the little time I get to myself when I am not hacking is called 'peace and quiet'.

I honestly can't remember the last time I was bored.

</comment><comment><USER8> Github. Momentum is key here. If you don't pick a project you are interested in and keep at it, coding for fun won't actually be fun; it will feel overwhelming and boring. But on a Sunday evening it's a great feeling to just hammer out an incremental change to a library you own and push it to the world. :)

</comment><comment><USER9> I hang out with my fiancee, we love cooking a lot and watching movies, especially old ones. I practice Starcraft II with a coworker, which works out the strategy-planning part of my brain. Every other Sunday or so I go R/C racing with my future-father-in-law. Otherwise I'm hacking on a project for pay or for fun, sometimes both. ;)

I am also never bored. There is just so much to do! I'm a stickler for writing down random thoughts and ideas, like "I want to try hang gliding", or, "I've never been whale watching", or, "I wonder how much plane tickets are to Paris right now". My someday/maybe list is sitting at 249 items.

Just ask yourself, why are you bored? Be honest with yourself. Your answer may surprise you, but that's fine. Try new things, different things. Break away from habit and routine. Do a hand-stand, then go run in the park. Smell the flowers. Think about their life-cycle, and why humans think they're pretty, or why they smell so good. Is it genetic or learned? Like coffee, you probably hated it at first, but it's grown on you. Or maybe we were meant to drink coffee!

Then go work on something you're passionate about -- create. Just like _why said: "when you don't create things, you become defined by your tastes rather than ability. your tastes only narrow & exclude people. so create."

Bring things into the world. Beautiful things. Things that should've been here in the first place, you were just the one to think of it and do it. Share whatever defines you with people. Get surprised or angered or duped into believing something fashionable. Live.

</comment><comment><USER10> I am never bored.

In fact, I have the opposite problem: I often have trouble enjoying things that are not on my To Do List because there are too many things on my To Do List that aren't getting done.

<comment><USER11> From my observations I think it's a much better problem to have than the opposite I've seen in some people where they are constantly bored when not involved in some kind of structured activity or social event.

<comment><USER12> That would actually be an improvement.. I'm just as often bored even when involved in activities or (the pretty rare now) social events.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Hacking.

My wife likes to tell people that I program to decompress, which is true. It's probably a bit like a mechanic coming home from working on other people's cars to put loving hours into rebuilding a 1965 mustang.

<comment><USER14> So.. you're working on a lisp?

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Generally when I get bored, it is a sign that I am burned out.

Consider this, you are a hacker, and you have a computer, and (since are reading this), the internet.

If you cannot think of a way to entertain yourself, then your creativity is toast. You need a vacation.

</comment><comment><USER16> Bored? Never! I spend all my time either talking with fellow hackers or non- hacker friends, or working on at least _something_. There's always stuff on the To Do List. Create a "Someday" category and just look into what's there when you don't feel like real work.

For example, today messed around with a new startup's home page design and advertised on Reddit. Also, booked flights.

<comment><USER17> Exactly. I only get bored when I -choose- to get bored. Which is a huge change from when I was young, I can tell you.

Now, I have so many hobbies that I have to put some aside for others. And even without them, I have so many personal projects I like to work on, and so much to learn, that I would never have free time just from that alone.

I often find myself stressed out about my hobbies, and have to take a break from them!

And someone mentioned Minecraft... -sigh- Why is that game so addictive? I just keep going back.

</comment></comment><comment> a-priori I usually try to work on something interesting. I have several unfinished projects on the go that I try to find time to work on.

But, today I wrote a tool for my fiancee to help her make knitting charts. Very minimal, but it's a start.

<http://knitting.heroku.com/>

<comment><USER18> As a knitter, this sounds truly awesome. Seems to not work though. But I'd love to collaborate with you on this, since it's something I need as well at times and never thought to make (I tend to draw charts directly for my own designs, but far too many published patterns have instructions only). Interested in the reverse transform? Webcam integration for pattern reading?

<comment> a-priori Thanks for the interest! Just sent you an email.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> I build Magic: The Gathering decks. It's basically like writing a program where the order of execution of the instructions is randomized.

</comment><comment><USER20> I like to:

-read

-code

-sleep

-long-distance run (6-15 miles, for me)

-hang out with friends

-clean the apartment

-watch netflix

<comment><USER21> I read that distance running lowers Co Enzyme Q10 levels (whilst raising anti- oxidants) with people that don't do it regularly. As a weekend warrior, do you think stress levels go up as a result?

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> The only time I'm really bored is when I can't decide what to do, because of the "paradox of choice." My personal library has more than enough books to keep me busy for the next couple of decades, and the Internet provides a seemingly unlimited amount of reading material. That alone creates a strong "paradox of choice" situation, but I also like listening to music (classical and metal, recorded or live), going to the theater, running, mountain biking, hiking, going out to eat, hanging out with friends at bars/clubs, etc. And between physical media and bittorrent downloads, I have enough unwatched movies and TV programmes to consume hundreds of hours of my time.

So what do I actually do? Usually some combination of the above... an average weekend includes some time reading fiction (reading the "Harry Potter" series ATM), some time studying $SOMETHING, where $SOMETHING could be greek history, philosophy, physics, math, statistics or FSM knows what, and some time boning up on whatever the technical "topic of the day" is... some time surfing the Internet, a trip out to eat somewhere, and some time exercising (walking or running).

I don't know if that helps much or not, but there ya go. If I had to single out one activity that I spend the most time on during "idle time" it's reading, both fiction and non-fiction.

Oh, and never mind the time on weekends that I spend writing code.

Now that I think about it, no wonder I show up for work on Monday feeling _more_ tired than I was when the weekend started. :-(

</comment><comment><USER23> Playing with my son, DIY on the house and of course hacking: <http://blog.rabidgremlin.com/projects/>

</comment><comment><USER24> beer on the deck, play with cats, go for a walk outside if it's nice (it's just getting to be fall weather around here which is great), really, anything but the computer

played some diablo 2 the other night with some friends though, fun times

</comment><comment><USER25> TV: College football on Saturday; Rubicon, Boardwalk Empire and Madmen* on Sunday. (*Although Madmen is seemingly plotless and is becoming a source of boredom instead of a cure.)

Code: Weekend coding is usually reserved for work on side projects and personal / in-house tools.

Read: Veering toward the non-technical and fiction lately.

People: Gotta stay connected to the important stuff.

Go outside: Try it. It's great!

</comment><comment><USER26> I play pick-up soccer with a regular group, read, cook, occasionally ride my bike around. Used to go on a ton of hikes until I exhausted those in the LA area.

I used to play ultimate (frisbee) but didn't like the rules. Good group though and plenty of geeks. When I played in Seattle, it seemed that all of us either worked for Boeing, Amazon, Microsoft or Google. You can find out about plenty of pick-up groups online.

</comment><comment><USER27> Minecraft

<comment><USER28> I have setup a server for HN users, #startups regulars and friends. Leave a comment here with your Minecraft username and make sure that your profile has contact information and I will give you access.

<comment><USER29> Mine is anakanemison.

<comment><USER28> I need contact information of some kind.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Saturday I went clubbing (it looks like I'm the only one here). Sunday I went to the gym.

But I didn't do these things to kill time.

</comment><comment><USER31> There is never enough time to do all the things I love to do, so, I don't get bored on the weekends. My first pick when the weather is nice is rock climbing. Just ran up 5 pitches of trad on Beacon rock today.

Gardening takes up some time, and it is now end of year, so I spent 18 hours this weekend cooking tomatoes into sauce and salsa.

</comment><comment><USER32> I never really get bored, but: * Go shooting (IDPA practice, high power rifle (which requires driving to Sacramento), teaching other people to shoot)

* Reading books -- I have about a thousand Kindle books (yes, I went overboard) and have only read about 200.

* Personal hacking projects (hardware more often than software; my new area of interest is ROV or autonomous underwater vehicle on the cheap to use when scuba diving)

* Learning something new: SCUBA has been the new thing for September. Trying to become a semi-competent designer (or at least being able to ID someone else's design) is my goal for the rest of the year, plus understanding more about TPM and hardware security modules.

* Maybe one or twice a month, some kind of party. As I've gotten older, I've gotten more into 5-15 person dinner parties or other low key things, vs. big raves, but both can be fun.

</comment><comment><USER33> Trick question. Hackers are never bored.

</comment><comment><USER34> For me:

Movies

Backgammon

Cycling (if the weather's good)

Learning new Cocktail Recipes

Cooking for people

Baking Bread

Amateur Digital Photography

I find Baking Bread to be the best de-stresser of all, and it always makes the house smell great!

</comment><comment><USER35> Spend time with my kids, reading, cleaning. I try to make time to think through code problems on paper and leave the computer untouched which usually is a big help in solving it.

</comment><comment><USER36> I'm never bored, I have more things to do that I could do. Life is difficult,unexpected, always have problems to solve but never boring.

I never "kill time", when I'm with my girlfriend-other relationships I enjoy it, riding bike or playing soccer or cooking because i love it.

Maybe it is have something you always need to learn, improve. Boredom has to do with stopping to grow, it seems like your life need some risk taking,maybe you are playing too safe.

</comment><comment><USER37> Try not to kill time. Once you've killed enough of it it'll be the thing you miss most. If you value anything else, realise that you can transform time into that thing.

</comment><comment><USER38> cooking up ideas, solutions, plans, trying to figure out the answer to some question that pops in my mind or trying to figure out the reason behind some obscure thing or pattern that may have caught my attention, reading articles or watching some good videos online.

(Talking about videos, whoever put up that link to Randy Pausch's Last Lecture Video on HN, just completed watching it- THANK YOU VERY MUCH, tried, but its been tough to trace back to the original posting)

Driving, lots of driving on the country side, love the changing scenery, that's one thing where I can continue the thinking while doing something relaxing.

(edit: about the driving, its big time fun, to go into some obscure parts of a city or new neighborhoods (obviously when the traffic is real low - like late in nights), or some new places in the country side, figure out new routes to the same places, its like a jig-saw puzzle. Another thing I am addicted to - <USER2> like seeing the same places in different circumstances, seeing the same neighborhoods in the day, evenings and night, or some remote places in the country side in different seasons - its great fun/relaxing and somehow I feel my mind getting stimulated at the same time)

</comment><comment><USER39> The weekend is actually one of the most productive times in my week — blogs/Twitter update less, people tend to be offline and therefore not pinging me with questions, and somehow they feel more relaxing so I tend to use that time for working on my project.

That said, if I'm truly bored, I'll spend my time exercising, cooking, or some other non-computer hobby to refresh my brain a bit.

</comment><comment><USER40> Playing QuakeLive, kayaking or going to some other city... But sometimes just being lazy (== reading books sometimes) or writing even more code.

</comment><comment><USER41> Starcraft 2

<comment><USER42> Me too, when I get bored of coding.

</comment></comment><comment><USER43> Mostly, I hack away at a personal project (fixing that shelf, or repotting that plant, or finally building that damn calendaring app for me and my girlfriend) or watch a bad TV show (I mean _really_ bad; guilty pleasure kind of stuff).

Fairly often I'll go to a park and just ask someone what they hate about their computer. Then I'll sit there in the park and build it, for fun.

</comment><comment><USER44> I typically read up on EsotericSubject X. I tend to use the oddball stuff to keep me interested in as many subjects as possible, in part because the basics have been re-hashed so many times they're boring until you see a use. X gets me interested, so I can go through the basics with a goal in mind, and know a couple questions to ask to get help as needed.

</comment><comment><USER45> There's no boredom.

After family time, I have two areas on which I concentrate. One is algorithms, though I'm stuck on an intractable problem at the moment. (I haven't figured the way to go around it yet. I will; it will just take time.) The other is photography, which is my latest obsession and has been consuming most free time and fun money. :D

</comment><comment><USER46> Never really bored... But to answer your question - mountain biking whenever I can (yesterday went to a dirt jumping park! in fact, I think I'll go there right now!), and assembling little air plane replicas (currently working on MiG 21). Oh, and hacking (should be writing a shell right now...) :-)

</comment><comment><USER47> With my spare time:

\- I work on app that I want to launch as a startup.

\- Hack on open source code.

\- Read some of Donald Knuth's The Art of Computer Programming, which I purchased last month.

There is always something one could be doing. If I am bored, it is because I am being lazy.

</comment><comment><USER48> I work through my GitHub pull request backlog. On a good weekend I can get back down to the single digits.

<comment><USER49> Thanks!

I use many of those projects daily. Your work is appreciated.

<http://technomancy.us/projects>

</comment></comment><comment><USER50> I make electronic music: <http://soundcloud.com/gau5/spotlight>, and the usual stuff like hang out with friends, I love watching movies, doing mathematics and watching videos on creating music and other forms of art.

<comment><USER51> Curious if you had a music background or if, like the rest of us here, you're an engineer of some type (not sound engineer though) who got into music in spare time?

Just wondering because I'm a programmer who doesn't know anything about musical production or theory but has always entertained the idea of making ambient-style electronic music.

<comment><USER52> You should go for it. Check out things like csound [1], puredata [2], chuck [3], and supercollider [4]. "Computer Music" by Charles Dodge is a classic book on computer music [5] (oldie but goodie)

[1] <http://www.csounds.com>

[2] <http://puredata.info>

[3] <http://chuck.cs.princeton.edu>

[4] <http://supercollider.sourceforge.net>

[5] [http://www.amazon.com/Computer-Music-Synthesis- Composition-P...](http://www.amazon.com/Computer-Music-Synthesis-Composition- Performance/dp/0028646827)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> HackerNews

</comment><comment><USER54> This hacker is too busy with too many projects to have time to get bored on weekends.

I am only bored when I am stuck somewhere with nothing to do - a doctor's office, a bus stop, an airport, etc. Upgrading my phone has helped a lot with this.

</comment><comment><USER55> Listen to Adam Carolla, Daves of Thunder, Spider and the Henchman, FitzDog Radio

</comment><comment><USER18> Knitting. Reading physics books. Building robots. Korean script practice. Dr. Who. Spending time with people. Cooking. Rediscovering ancient science fiction. Getting old semi-industrial machines running.

</comment><comment><USER56> Spending tine with my wife and son

Distance running (10-15 miles)

Research and planning

Hacking. Personal, work and home automation

And given my schedule, often doing nothing at all.

</comment><comment><USER57> Going outside. Reading a book. After reading for a while, I either have the desire to do something, like hang out with friends, or I have an idea, and I go research it and iterate on it.

</comment><comment><USER58> I've started reading more. This is probably a good start: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1752139>

</comment><comment><USER59> I got a beautiful puppy :) Actually more than killing time I'm finding out that training a puppy is pretty much a full-time, so now in my free time I work.

</comment><comment><USER60> Hackers gonna hack.

</comment><comment><USER61> I only get bored if im to tierd to do something real then I watch old The Big Bang Theory or How I met you mother stuff and go to bed.

</comment><comment><USER62> Watch TED videos

</comment><comment><USER63> <http://play.eveonline.com/en/home.aspx>

<comment><USER64> play eveonline in home? ;)

</comment></comment><comment><USER65> Laundry and <http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/>

</comment><comment><USER66> Frisbee Golf followed by chatting with fellow hackers on a patio somewhere enjoying the weather.

</comment><comment><USER67> Coding, watching movies, going for a hike, exercising, playing music, learning to skateboard.

</comment><comment><USER68> Went for a sail. Lots of dynamic problem solving in a very different domain. And fresh air.

</comment><comment><USER69> Learn more about beer & how to brew it.

</comment><comment><USER70> Poker

</comment><comment><USER71> Boredom. I vaguely remember that.

</comment><comment><USER72> Hacking. QED

</comment><comment><USER73> Read Hacker Monthly, may be?

</comment><comment><USER74> Going out.

</comment><comment><USER75> Too busy to get bored!

</comment><comment><USER76> Bored is a choice.

</comment><comment><USER77> Crossword puzzles.

</comment><comment><USER78> Well, I hacked Instant Search this morning! Hehe Google, its what's for breakfast. <http://YTLatest.com>

</comment><comment><USER79> pkill time</comment>