Europe's Square - <AUTHOR> http://www.izettle.com/

<comment><USER2> I have one reader connected to my ipad. Got it for free so I had to try it. I have accepted only one payment so far so not much experience about it, but some comments:

For private individuals a facebook account is needed to accept payments.

The legal agreement is a mess, they even warn that your data can be transferred to countries where privacy laws are not in par with european standards and data is stored for 7 years

Location of the transaction is stored and cannot be turned off, it's unclear why this is needed.

They seem to comply with PCI data security standards but are not audited (yet?)

The customer must sign the transaction on the ipad screen with finger (even harder with iphone). it's very hard to check that to the signature on the back of the card. also the customer must type his/her email on the screen if they want a receipt (there is no receipt printer). So each transaction takes a long time.

So it's good for selling at fleamarkets and such but for serious business it's no match for a payment terminal. Also if you don't already own iphone/ipad then it's also more expensive.

<comment><USER3> > The customer must sign the transaction on the ipad screen with finger (even > harder with iphone). it's very hard to check that to the signature on the > back of the card.

In my experience, signing works really well. Also, in Sweden nobody checks the signature. I don't even bother signing my card, and I can't understand how anybody can read the signature on the card. I think it's happened once that someone's wanted to check my signature against the card.

<comment><USER4> I guess that checking the signature is a US thing, in the UK, Switzerland and Spain if you don't pay with a chip & pin card they ask for ID, and that works pretty fine security wise.

<comment><USER5> In my experience, checking the signature just doesn't happen in the US. In fact, most of the time you seem to be given your card back before you even give them the signed receipt.

Checking the signature was the norm in the UK before chip-and-PIN.

<comment><USER6> I wrote "please ask for ID" instead of signing. In 4 years, I was asked to show An ID exactly on once.

<comment><USER3> See <http://www.zug.com/pranks/credit/> \-- very funny!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> One thing that may not be too familiar to the Americans, but this looks a lot sturdier (read:larger) because it isn't a swiper like Square. It is a chip reader, see: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_and_PIN>

<comment><USER8> Heads up, If you're an American going to Europe, regular swipe only credit cards won't work as often here. Nearly all point-of-sale credit card machines require chip & pin. Or you'll wind up like some tourists in my local supermarket unable to use their credit card.

<comment><USER9> This is nonsense (at least in the UK and France). Yes there is preference for chip & pin but _every_ reader I've seen supports swipe & sign still. Chips break, contacts corrode. It's there as a backup.

(And yes, this totally defeats the security aspect of C&P)

<comment><USER10> "(And yes, this totally defeats the security aspect of C&P)"

As I understand it, C&P isn't meant to be more secure for users - it's meant to be more "secure" for banks, since if someone fakes your signature it's not your fault (and the bank has to swallow the loss), but if someone gets hold of your PIN it IS your fault.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> What's all this "sign with your finger" nonsense? With Chip & PIN cards (i.e., all our modern credit cards) you should just need the chip & PIN. Signatures are only a backup authentication.

Also, signing with anything other than a pen and paper is still a disastrous user experience (see every courier's PDA system ever built)

<comment><USER12> PIN keypads have to be secure... totally secure. Passing through the iPhone isn't security.

For them to include a PIN entry system, they would need to do so on the chip reader device itself (non-iPhone).

The keypads for PIN entry systems always hash the PIN before it leaves the keypad... no other software gets the PIN.

If you cannot offer secure PIN entry, then you cannot offer PIN entry.

You can still take a signature, but now the burden of responsibility changes. Fraud is covered by the merchants if you use signatures.

<comment><USER13> A good example of this is the Apple Stores in Europe: like in the US, staff use iPods to take orders and checkout. The difference is when it comes to payment: instead of swiping the credit card and signing on the iPod screen, transaction details are wirelessly sent to one of many Chip & PIN readers around the store, and you then complete your purchase there.

<comment><USER14> Do they go to cashwrap, or do they have just 'standalone' chip+pin terminals in the store?

<comment><USER15> In an Apple store they're often portable.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Swede here -- the company is Swedish and I have used it on several occasions, as a payer. It works great. As others have mentioned, it reads the chip, and is sturdy. Not using PIN though, you sign the receipt with your finger, which works really well. You can also get the receipt via email.

Edit: they definitely support VISA.

<comment><USER16> Lack of Chip and PIN support is going to be a _major_ turn-off in much of the European market...

<comment><USER17> Exactly this. I've had a chip and pin card since they were introduced in the UK and never had to sign anything related to payment. It's always a case of entering your PIN on the terminal and authorise.

I was previously under the assumption that you can't authorise a payment via a signature nowadays in the UK?

<comment><USER18> From <http://www.chipandpin.co.uk/faqs/affect.html#retailer>:

      What if the retailer does not accept chip and PIN?
      Where the retailer has not upgraded to chip and PIN technology, you will be asked to
      follow the current card payment process using your signature to confirm the
      transaction.

<comment><USER19> That site hasn't been updated since 2006 so I would rely on any information on there.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Really like efforts to make payments and secure transactions easier however not sure how this will compete with the big boys (banks etc).

For example Visa offer contact less payments for merchants via pay wave.

Barclays have payments from your smart phone via ping it.

Then there is nfc technology.

Just trying to test the longevity of this product. Does it alleviate the pain of using a card and remembering a pin.

Edit: also worth mentioning Paypal, Barclays Paytag.

</comment><comment><USER18> Looks good. I always thought the Square dongle looked a bit flimsy. This looks much more professional.

On the other hand, what the fuck is with that name? iZettle? What's a zettle when it's at home?

<comment><USER21> The name was pretty clear to me, I read it as a pun/play on the verb "to settle", i.e. to perform a financial transaction in order to resolve a debt.

You triggered my curiousity, though: what's your (mis)interpretation? I don't understand the reference to "at home" at all, and basic Googling failed to resolve it.

Another point about their communications is that their main (English) front page copy says "[...] is as easy as pie", an idiomatic expression that to me _screams_ of the US, which was funny because of the European angle.

It seems they're actually fellow Swedes (yay); I've seen some ads for their card reader in local press, too. The reader was then coupled with (if I recall correctly) a phone with a business-type subscription, the ad was by one of the local/Nordic cell phone operators. Interesting.

<comment><USER18> "When it's at home" is a Britishism meaning "basically": <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/when_its_at_home>.

We use "easy as pie" in the UK too, although it's probably an American import. (EDIT: almost certainly 19th century American. Mark Twain used similar phrases <http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/as-easy-as-pie.html>)

I think maybe my accent has a much harder Z than they were anticipating.

<comment><USER21> Thanks! You have a missing apostrophe in your link, took me a while to figure that out. :) The proper link is <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/when_it%27s_at_home>.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> However successful this product becomes (which looks doubtful given its dependence upon signatures), its irritating generic web 2.0 startup name will prevent me from ever taking it seriously.

<comment><USER23> Square has a good product name, because it's memorable, and it fits the device (it's square!)

On the other hand, iZettle is neither memorable, nor makes any sense.

<comment><USER24> "iZettle is neither memorable, nor makes any sense"

YMMV - I thinks it's both memorable and makes sense (sounds like "I settle"). Also, I've never seen a Square device so their domain isn't memorable to me!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Doesn't seem to accept Visa at the moment. As much as I like the idea (despite the name) of a European Square, not accepting Visa is less than optimal, especially as they try to gain traction.

<comment> Tim-Boss [https://izettle.desk.com/customer/en_us/portal/articles/5311...](https://izettle.desk.com/customer/en_us/portal/articles/531106-which- cards-can-i-accept-with-izettle-#)

<comment><USER25> I read that. Hence why I said at the moment. It'd be great for them to get it sooner rather than later. At least in the UK, most basic accounts issue Visa debit cards and a lot of the basic credit cards are also Visa.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Tried it with an iPhone and it worked great. I hope iZettle will be developed for Android also, since the phone I'm always carrying is running Android.

<comment><USER27> I would be worried letting someone read my card information via an Android phone. Malware would easily be able to sit in the background and intercept information from the reader. At least on iOS you know any interception would have to be on transmition from the app to the server, which is not all client side.

Perhaps that's a little unfair. I guess as more and more apps and devices become avaliable for reading you card inforamtion more and more opportunities exist for stealing your info.

<comment><USER28> How about jailbroken iPhones? Do you check the vendor/platform of the CC reader in every shop before paying?

<comment><USER27> Yes very true, and you could easily hack once of the physical readers they use now. Almost every shop I go into seems to have a different make or model of card reader.

I guess with Android there is more change of the device owner not knownig it's there, it's much easier to say phish someone into installing malware onto an Android device than it is to jailbrake their iOS phone.

I wouldn't like to be in the shoes of fraud departments right now...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Also, check out the newly announced Swish (<https://www.getswish.com>, site in Swedish), which offers the same functionality, but with cooperation with several major banks. It seems to bypass swiping credit cards completely, by communicating wirelessly with cell phone numbers.

</comment><comment><USER30> Economically, I can understand that people start to copy concepts and transfer good ideas into their homecountry. That´s nothing new - you can find that across human history and it was often connected to progress. Basically, copycats act like spice merchants in late centuries. They scout for some new spices and try to find out if they can match or create demand in other regions of the world.

However, what I really dislike is when people also start copy the look and feel of the innovator´s website. I think we should apply the same moral values to startup ideas as we do in science: That implies to create your own work, not to rephrase and to mention the original source. This piece might be missing in the system.

<comment><USER31> What do you mean? iSettle's and Square's websites look just as much alike as any recent startups'...

<comment><USER30> Honestly, I tend to say that the website clearly shows a lot (!) of elements and interactions that are derived from Square. And it does not look like a co- existent happenstance.

<comment><USER32> certain product-websites tend to converge ... not because noone is creative but they work. there's absolutely no sense for them to create a totally different page that may not work as good just because they want to be different.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Their is another company that is breaking into this market in US, Brazil and Europe. They are working on making it easy to accept cards in Europe and also getting the governmental approval for coupon fiscal in Brazil. The company Tillify.com are also rolling native apps and web apps for all devices that work consumer side and vendor side, They are also using the mobile phone number as a digital id to enroll consumers into their platform.

</comment><comment><USER33> In Europe the card acceptance system will need to read the chip, but not enter the pin. The best solution is to accept the signature on the panel. This is what izettle have done. Its a u-turn on chip and pin but the only way it can be done as you cant pass the pin through the app for security issues. In larger outlets no doubt a wired card reader will be used and the pin will be entered into that reader as current systems do.

</comment><comment><USER34> How much are the payment fees? I couldn't find it on their website. And what about the 30% Apple Tax?

<comment><USER35> 2.75% with MasterCard, Visa and Diners Club. 3.75% with AMEX

without a card reader its 1.5 SEK + 3.5%

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> Does anyone know whether this is only Visa payments or does it support maestro/laser cards also?

</comment><comment><USER33> I think everyone here is missing the point. The dongle and the card swipe/read is merely a short term Trojan horse into changing payment. Further more it is a means to the end of cash payments. If you imagine that these apps will become the "Facebook" of commerce and how that can happen you will see the bigger picture. These apps allow everyone to pass currency using a device, sure they need a card right now as that is the "old skool" method we all respect. Once the card is swipped their is no need to do it ever again. Both parties are registered on the app and thus the "mobile wallet" has been created. Next they will role out "self serve" apps and cardless payment. What we are talking about here is merely a means to an end. Sadly it also means that these apps will Facebook commerce and while they are doing that they will put eCommerce on the back seat. Wait and see what happens.

</comment><comment><USER37> This will be perfect for my dad's art gallery. Fewer and fewer people bring cash a long so he loses out on sales that way. It's a very small art gallery and conventional payment terminals are too expensive to buy/hire.

</comment><comment><USER33> <http://www.tillify.com></comment>


Why the Soviet Union did not build a nationwide computer  network (2008) [pdf] - <AUTHOR> http://web.mit.edu/slava/homepage/articles/Gerovitch-InterNyet.pdf <comment><USER2> In Romania you would get arrested if you had a walkie-talkie. The fixed phones were installed only in the homes of people that were part of the regime (even if you had a very simple role like handling money). They invested some on PCs but only until it became clear that they allowed easy access to information. Then it was dead.

So in my view no communist country would invest in a national network because that would make information easier to transmit and this would undermine the regime. Keep people in the dark and they might be happy with their misserable life. Even people closer to the regime believed they had a good life because they received bananas and oranges before every Christmas...

<comment><USER3> As horrible as the regime was, you would not get arrested for having a walkie- talkie. And anyone could get a phone line, except there was a looong wait (years). And most likely you will end up on a "coupled" line, meaning that you and your neighbor will share the same line - you can listen in to your neighbor's conversation simply by picking up the phone.

<comment><USER4> It depends where you lived during the regime, some parts of the soviet union had stricter controls over communications than others. I got arrested for having few pairs of jeans.

<comment><USER5> In other parts for having long hair (when it was popular in the West) or for listening to foreign stations, music etc.

<comment><USER6> While that sort of thing was seen as being "too western" in the east, it was seen as being "queer" or "communist" in the west. The cold war era was very weird on both sides of the wall.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Not many people know that instead another socialist country did try to build such a network: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Cybersyn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Cybersyn) The project was probably overly ambitious and anyway could not last for more than 2 years given the suicide of Allende just after the coup, but it is still fairly fascinating.

<comment><USER8> It's an interesting part of Stafford Beer's life story all right. But as somebody recently said on twitter, Uber has solved the calculation problem ([https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem)) but certain parties on the left are still going on about Cybersyn, apparently mostly because of its retro-stylish control room. There's even a trendy cybernetics-inspired conference in New York this month: cybernetics.social

Gerovitch seems as good a guide as there is to the topic, speaking as someone who's been hearing about it and reading bits and pieces for over 10 years (of course it's never mentioned in CS programmes).

Eden Medina's 2011 book about Cybersyn was well received and tends to crop up in trendy bookstores. I don't mean to disparage all this but there are good reasons why the notions of cybernetics are not central to pedagogy in any field these days.

<comment><USER9> Uber has solved the economic calculation problem except for that little detail that it loses billions of dollars ever year.

In fact, any business that can make a profit without subsidies has solved the economic calculation problem, at least on a smaller than nationwide scale. Maybe if Amazon in 20 years has vertically integrated enough that it is the only business operating in the country and it replaces money with just telling everyone what to do and the whole thing operating on pure faith in Amazon's benevolence it would have solved the economic calculation problem.

<comment><USER10> Arguably, Wal-Mart solved this years ago. Wal-Mart is very centralized. It's so centralized that store thermostats are controlled from Master Control in Bentonville, Arkansas.

One of Sam Walton's big points is that Wal-Mart's success was not due to scale. It was because they were moving data around instead of inventory. Retail used to involve lots of product taking up space in warehouses, store back rooms, and shelves in the store. All that costs the retailer money. Wal- Mart was the first big chain to get this under control, so that product flow followed sales flow very closely. This has an enormous financial benefit. Big retailers typically pay 30 days behind shipments. Wal-Mart (and presumably Amazon) usually have sold the product before they even have paid their supplier. So their inventory cost is _negative_. Now that's cash flow management.

Wal-Mart was one of the first retailers to bar-code everything. They meant _everything_. Wal-Mart has a buying center in Bentonville, known in retail as the Corridor of Doom. They put up signs along the line of "If your product isn't bar-coded, don't bother coming in". In typical Wal-Mart fashion, they made the suppliers apply the bar codes, both at the retail item and case level. (They've been trying to move to RFID, but it hasn't worked out as well.)

Gosplan was always very slow. They had a monthly information cycle and an annual decision cycle. Wal-Mart had a daily information cycle and a weekly decision cycle years ago, and it's probably faster now. If Gosplan had made it to the bar-code era, they might have been able to make centralized planning work.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Anybody remember the kremvax April-fools hoax on Usenet (1984)?

      From email@example.com Sun Apr  1 15:02:52 1984
      Relay-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83 (MC840302); site mcvax.UUCP
      Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 4/1/84 (SU840401); site kremvax.UUCP
      Path: mcvax!moskvax!kremvax!chernenko
      From: email@example.com
      Newsgroups: net.general,eunet.general,net.politics,eunet.politics
      Subject: USSR on Usenet
      Message-ID: <email@example.com>
      Date: Sun, 1-Apr-84 15:02:52 GMT
      Article-I.D.: kremvax.0001
      Posted: Sun Apr  1 15:02:52 1984
      Date-Received: Mon, 1-Apr-84 12:26:02 GMT
      Organization: MIIA, Moscow
      Lines: 41

      <.....>

      Well, today, 840401, this is at last the Socialist Union of Soviet
      Republics joining the Usenet network and saying hallo to everybody.

      One reason for us to join this network has been to have a means of
      having an open discussion forum with the American and European people
      and making clear to them our strong efforts towards attaining peaceful
      coexistence between the people of the Soviet Union and those of the
      United States and Europe.

      We have been informed that on this network many people have given strong
      anti-Russian opinions, but we believe they have been misguided by their
      leaders, especially the American administration, who is seeking for war
      and domination of the world.
      By well informing those people from our side we hope to have a possibility
      to make clear to them our intentions and ideas.

      Some of those in the Western world, who believe in the truth of what we
      say have made possible our entry on this network; to them we are very
      grateful. We hereby invite you to freely give your comments and opinions.

      Here are the data for our backbone site:

      Name: moskvax
      Organization: Moscow Institute for International Affairs
      Contact: K. Chernenko
      Phone: +7 095 840401
      Postal-Address: Moscow, Soviet Union
      Electronic-Address: mcvax!moskvax!kremvax!chernenko
      News: mcvax kremvax kgbvax
      Mail: mcvax kremvax kgbvax

      And now, let's open a flask of Vodka and have a drink on our entry on
      this network. So:

     			NA ZDAROVJE!

      --
    	K. Chernenko, Moscow, USSR
    	...{decvax,philabs}!mcvax!moskvax!kremvax!chernenko

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kremvax](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kremvax)

</comment><comment><USER12> _The author focuses on the political dimension of seemingly technical proposals, the relationship between information and power, and the transformative role of users of computer technology_

One of the things that programmers who are also business people need to keep in mind, is that information technology is often a tool of power or regulation. Power is limited by information/knowledge. You cannot exercise power over something that you know nothing about. If your knowledge of something is incomplete, then your power over it is also incomplete. (It is also easy to see this in RTS games, where the mechanic is called the "Fog of War.")

This principle is also readily apparent in social media. Information technology was used to disperse power and put it into many hands, with widespread results in current day society. Information technology can also be used to aggregate power into fewer hands. Many forms of social media are an example of both dispersal and aggregation at the same time.

Startups accomplish goals by aggregating power. Creating new markets and ecosystems is both the aggregation and dispersal of power. Exercising your right of association in such a situation is the exercise of power. It is very important, therefore, to remember that 1) power corrupts, especially arbitrary power absent oversight and therefore 2) power is best exercised transparently.

</comment><comment><USER13> I would really be interested in the opinion of anyone on HN who lived in the Soviet Union as to whether this sounds plausible as an explanation. It does to me, but I don't think I would have the ability to recognize an implausible explanation of how the Soviet Union worked, as I had no real-world experience of it.

<comment><USER14> An economist who defected from the Soviet Union, Yuri Maltsev, has been quite vocal about his experiences in the Soviet Union. There are plenty of videos of his presentations: [https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=yuri+maltsev](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=yuri+maltsev)

But, he doesn't hang around HN.

He saw his well-educated colleagues reduced to stealing paper-clips. When he visited the US, friends asked him mainly for mascara and condoms: [https://youtu.be/1KzaJwEaOwU?t=96](https://youtu.be/1KzaJwEaOwU?t=96)

In 47:50 of this video ([https://youtu.be/s88pMN3qDRQ?t=2870](https://youtu.be/s88pMN3qDRQ?t=2870)), he states something extraordinary: the Soviet economy was between 6% and 7% of the US economy when he defected to the US. The US and UK intel. agencies had higher estimates of between 45%-90%.

<comment><USER15> > _he states something extraordinary_

Extraordinary stories is a hallmark of people who were defecting back in Soviet times. A massive grain of salt won't hurt when digesting them.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Probably because it's proponents didn't have enough clout in the party, and faced too much institutional inertia.

Reading the manuscript, that appears to be the case:

>Industrial managers and government bureaucrats opposed the computerization of economic planning and management because it exposed their inefficiency, reduced their power and control of information, and ultimately threatened to make them redundant. On the other hand, liberal economic reformers viewed Glushkov's proposal as a conservative attempt to further centralize the control of the economy and to suppress the autonomy of small economic units.

In other words, for entirely practical reasons. Not because evil communists didn't want people to have too much freedom, as the top comment in this thread suggests.

</comment><comment><USER17> tl;dr:

* Recent scholarship on the 'co-construction' of users and technology emphasizes the role of users in defining, modifying, redesigning, and resisting new technologies ...

* (In the US), users (were civilians and) ... redefined the ARPANET ... (from) ... its initial purpose as a resource sharing tool ... (into) ... a venue of communication ..., when email service emerged as a 'smash hit.'

* (In the USSR), individual ministries ... (appropriated) ... the role of primary users of management information systems ... and ... transformed the original concept of a national network into a patchwork of ministry-subordinated data banks, ... (transforming) ... the tool ... from a vehicle of reform into a pillar of the status quo.

</comment><comment><USER18> These kind of topics need far more depth and detail for informed discussion that a forum discussion would allow, and its easy to get tied up clarifying misinformation and propaganda.

Those who are interested already know, others are happy with a superficial understanding of issues. There is little doubt many states were terrified of communism and what its success could mean and also communist states whenever tried devolved in some form of totalitarianism and a great betrayal of the people and principles.

Communist states have not been able to deliver on the promises and neither have capitalist states. The only constant is there are always a group of elites who manage to concentrate power, influence and wealth and drive agendas.

</comment><comment><USER19> Previous discussion on the "InterNyet" topic (a 2016-10-17 Aeon essay, not this exact PDF):

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12724009](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12724009)

<comment><USER20> Thanks, this is really interesting stuff.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> The part about Khrushchev's failed reform of economic management was interesting as if he had failed to refactor Soviet systems from monolithic into micro-service based.

</comment><comment><USER21> I doubt if this would be the future of the whatever network in China, after someday it cut itself from the rest of Internet.

</comment><comment><USER22> related [http://seansrussiablog.org/2016/06/15/the-stillbirth-of- the-...](http://seansrussiablog.org/2016/06/15/the-stillbirth-of-the-soviet- internet/)</comment>


Hi folks, any suggestions for this design?  - <AUTHOR>

Hi folks, I've been working on this for some time, I'm finding it very hard to settle down with the design. I would be really grateful if you guys could give me a few tips.
The site is meant as an aggreagator, such as popurls and such, but it organizes articles using various algorithms. Articles can also be saved with a temporary account. This is the site http://www.whizis.com/
I'm not sure how usable it feels or if the design might be in some way confusing.
Any comments? Help would be very much appreciated! <comment><USER2> The html escaping looks broken, I can see escaped entities in the description text.

Also the contrast between the description text, button text etc and their backgrounds is way too low.

It feels really stripy, you could probably remove some of the horizontal lines and let it flow a bit more.

I thought the "tweetmeme.com", "reddit.com" descriptors were buttons but apparently they aren't. They look like they are.

<comment><AUTHOR> thank you tjpick for your suggestions and pointing out details like the "tweetmeme.com" descriptors looking like buttons.

I agree with all your points, I'll see what I can come up with.

By the way, are you suggesting me to loose the horizontal lines separating the articles?

<comment><USER2> > By the way, are you suggesting me to loose the horizontal lines separating > the articles?

yes, separating the articles and in the sidebar. You could consider it. I personally find a horizontal line breaks vertical reading/scanning flow, and people generally overuse the technique to separate sections where a heading in slightly larger/bolder font and a bit of white space is much more pleasant. I'm not a visual designer, just my personal preference. Up to you.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> More of a UX suggestion, but I think you need to explain the purpose and why of the site better. If it wasn't for your statement on here about what the site is meant to be, it would have been even less clear to me. What is the value proposition?

The 'What's This' tip links and the 'About' section aren't working.

Under the choose your algorithm sections, when I select one of the choices it highlights the choice, but nothing else changes. This leaves me unsure if they are not working or if I am doing something wrong.

There are also a lot of people out there who might not be familiar with the term algorithm, even less understand what they actually mean. If you are aiming to reach 'normals' it might be helpful to use more common language like filters instead of algorithms.

Same thing with the copy where you describe the algorithms. To me, it seems like you are describing more how the algorithms function...rather than how it will effect what I see as a user. I'd say figure out in plain, concise language what the benefits of each 'filter' are to the user.

Terms like renewal rates, site voting power, and slow rate change don't convey to the average user how each filter effects them. I think a good place for including and describing these terms is probably in the 'What's This' tool tip for that section.

I'm not sure what the purpose of the 'State of Social Media' section is. What does that mean for the user? Why is it important to the user? What exactly does that information tell me?

The site source labels do look like buttons as tjpick mentioned. But I would also add that the Reddit and Tweetmeme labels look/are the same at least for background color. When I scroll the page almost all of the submissions are from Reddit and Tweetmeme, except for one for digg. Since the green is so much more pronounced than the grays used on the other two, I feel like it is highlighting it as something special I should look at or click. I would use the gray background color for all of them, and just use different colored font(maybe with a more pronounced font so colors(sites) are easily distinguished).

The gray description text is hard for me to read, in that I actually have to try and focus on reading it. The submission time and user are highlighted which usually signals important information in context to the info around them. Is that the important information you want to highlight? Seems to me like those are second or third tier pieces of info, where text like the description, site source, etc., are actually the important/useful parts.

Need a footer. Footer makes it clear that this is the end. Right now it looks like the page just hasn't loaded entirely because I was expecting to be able to go through multiple pages.

<comment><AUTHOR> mschaecher, thank you for your elaborate reply.

The suggestions and points you have made a really useful. I am really happy. Not everything is working 100% as I'm still working on the site, I felt stuck on the layout and design. I'm changing features constantly.

I'm thinking of inserting a small description of the site in the top part of the sidebar, or in a box above the articles. I've been suggested to add a popup such as wefollow's one <http://wefollow.com/>, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea.

Thank you for pointing out the problems about the terminology I used, I haven't thought about this and you have given a great explanation on why and what you suggest me doing.

About the "tweetmeme" and "reddit" boxes, I applied the theme colours for each one. I'm thinking of maybe only displaying theme colors when a relevant container is being hovered, although this might disrupt the user's attention.

I'll also change the text contract, and level them a better. I'm thinking the following order of importance: \- Title \- Description \- Domain, Source \- Time ago, Poster, Options

I'm a little undecided if to consider the description more important than "domain" and "source", or the other way round.

I'll add a footer asap!

Thank you mschaecher, this was top advice!

<comment><USER3> Keep up the good work. If you ever want some more thoughts/comments or someone to bounce ideas off feel free to drop me a message at schaecher.michael at gmail</comment></comment></comment>


Nvidia  introduces Tegra 3 five-core CPU - <AUTHOR> http://tideart.com/?id=4eba193c

<comment><USER2> I guess its nice, but it sort of seems unimpressive from where I sit. All the other people making A9s just use a 45nm low power process and are able to clock their chips up past 1GHz just fine. NVidia has to use a normal process to get their 4 main cores past 1GHz, and the single A9 they have on LP silicon is clocked way lower. ARM's proposed tandem between A7 and A15 cores seems much more interesting.

</comment><comment><USER3> Check this whitepaper by nVidia [http://www.nvidia.com/content/PDF/tegra_white_papers/Variabl...](http://www.nvidia.com/content/PDF/tegra_white_papers/Variable- SMP-A-Multi-Core-CPU-Architecture-for-Low-Power-and-High-Performance-v1.1.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER4> What strikes me is that this could compete with current generation game consoles, so next gen consoles might be Tegra "Wayne" (from Wikipedia) :

      Processor: quad- or octa-core ARM Cortex-A15 MPCore
      Improved 24 (for the quad-core) and 32 to 64 (for the octa-core) GPU cores with support for Directx 11+, OpenGL 4.X, OpenCL 1.X, and Physx
      28 nm[23]
      About 10 times faster than Tegra 2

This would be low-power/low-cost game console.

<comment><USER5> Was just hopping in here to post this -- Xbox.next got named (Loop for now) and details leaked about how it is an ARM-based design with dedicated chips for each major process used in modern gaming (video, physics, audio, etc.)[1]

After seeing the specs on the Tegra 3, I can't help but think that Tegra 3++ or "Tegra 4" will basically by the Xbox-next.

[1] <http://bit.ly/ue2nvb>

<comment><USER6> I don't think it makes sense to build a flagship (Xbox/PS) console on ARM, since these SoCs are only barely more powerful than the 360/PS3. I would expect a flagship console to have at least the power of an AMD Trinity. Rumors about Xbox.next being cheaper (and thus probably slower) than a cost-reduced 360 also don't make much sense unless MS is going to have two product lines.

<comment><USER4> >since these SoCs are only barely more powerful than the 360/PS3

The benchmark from NVidia suggested that _current_ gen Tegra can compete with Core2 Intel and XBox360 is slower AFAIK. Tegra.next (next gen ARM, ~2GHz) alike could just be the thing, because a) better hardware architecture allows more efficient algorithms (SM5/OpenCL) b) it would probably allow them to profit on the console instead of making a loss.

Games parallelize better than other software.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> This is incredible in terms of helping push the technology envelope further, but I'm afraid it's just going to be used in the short term by Android handset OEMs as another selling point to tout in the spec wars. I wish that they would focus on the end-to-end user experience more, rather than putting their own brand of lipstick on Android and trying to win a pointless spec arms race.

<comment><USER8> Given that AMD has essentially lost their way as far as being competitive with Intel, I don't view the releases of new mobile products as being pointless processions in an ongoing spec war, but more as a necessity to ramp performance to a point that disruption of the desktop/server space becomes possible. ARM in your phone, tablet, desktop & powering the "cloud" isn't so far fetched. Right now I see ARM & OpenCL/CUDA as much bigger threats to Intel than AMD is.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Watched the video. What exactly is "Competition"?

<comment><USER10> Probably Qualcomm. They see them as their biggest rival in this market, probably because they are actually the biggest chip maker now.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Does anyone know what the website with the aquarium in the HTML5&WebGL is?

<comment><USER12> I believe it's this one: [http://www.chromeexperiments.com/detail/webgl- aquarium/?f=we...](http://www.chromeexperiments.com/detail/webgl- aquarium/?f=webgl)

<comment><USER11> Thanks!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> The faster Flash performance won't be much of a selling point now.

<comment><USER14> Funny - first thing I thought as well. But the video decoder is just h.264 up to high profile, so it should, in theory, work for html5 video as well

<comment><USER10> I would've thought chip makers would decode WebM, too, by now. Google won't stay on h.264 forever.

<comment><USER15> They do, Tegra 2, 3 and OMAP4 decode VP8 in hardware.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Can somebody confirm that it doesn't have wireless (GSM, CMDA, LTE, 802.x, etc.) integrated? This would make it different to the Snapdragon, OMAP, A5 etc. system-on-chip

<comment><USER10> A5 and OMAP don't have 3G/4G integrated in them. A5 uses Qualcomm's 3G chip. Having a 3G chip integrated is more of an exception in the industry, not the rule. Although everyone seems to be moving in that direction right now. Nvidia also bought a company recently to integrate LTE in their chips in the near future.

<comment><USER16> Qualcomm has an easier time integrating the modems for one simple reason: they make them. Can't think of many other SoC vendors that also make their own modems (maybe Samsung?).

<comment><USER17> st-ericsson's novathor seems to be stealing a good bit of market share from Qualcomm in upcoming phones.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Quad Core and a GPU is a bit more accurate, but still an interesting system. I wonder when development boards will go on sale.

<comment><USER4> Not according to Wikipedia :

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Tegra#Tegra_3_.28Kal- El....](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Tegra#Tegra_3_.28Kal-El.29_series)

The Tegra 3 is functionally a quad-core processor, but includes a fifth "companion" core. All cores are Cortex-A9s, but the companion core is manufactured with a special low power silicon process. This means it uses less power at low clock rates, but more at higher rates; hence it is limited to 500 MHz. There is also special logic to allow running state to be quickly transferred between the companion core and one of the normal cores. The goal is for a mobile phone or tablet to be able to power down all the normal cores and run on only the companion core, using comparatively little power, during standby mode or when otherwise using little CPU. According to Nvidia, this includes playing music or even video content.

<comment><USER18> You're right, I was mistaken! I also found some more detail from this more technical explanation:

[http://www.anandtech.com/show/5072/nvidias- tegra-3-launched-...](http://www.anandtech.com/show/5072/nvidias- tegra-3-launched-architecture-revealed)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> When can I get this in my laptop?

<comment><USER10> I hope to see it in Google TV set top boxes, too. Then you can just hook up a gamepad (which Google TV 2.0 supports) and play like on a console. If they can make them for $100-$150, and bring a few more console-like Honeycomb games, it would be a winner. I wish Google would focus more on turning this into a reality sooner rather than later.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Proper way to generate confirmation numbers - <AUTHOR> I've noticed that when I pay my bills online there doesn't seem to be any single method of generating confirmation numbers. One credit card uses a 4-digit number. Another uses 9 letters.  The electric company uses six alphanumeric characters.  Are there best practices for this sort of thing, or is everyone winging it? <comment><USER2> Whatever format you choose, I'd like to suggest that you include a small bit of identifying info at the beginning of the number. For example, if your company name is Fictitious Enterprises, your confirmation numbers will always begin with "fe", as in fe7623. Or, have the confirmation numbers always begin with, say, "88", as in 887623. This tiny piece of redundancy is tremendously helpful for customer support staff and for your programs to recognize that a customer is giving the wrong number. In web forms, you can also prompt people to enter the number beginning with "fe" or "88". It's not the norm, but there's plenty of precedent for putting in a redundant prefix like this.

And for heaven's sake, keep the number to a reasonable length, and if longer than 6 digits, break it up with hyphens, and make sure that all your web forms accept the number with or without the hyphens if copied & pasted. I've seen confirmation numbers, order numbers, etc., that run to absurd 30 or 60 or more digits, enough to encode all the protons on Earth. There are always cases when you can't copy & paste (like from screenshots, paper printouts, one device to another, spoken over the phone), so you don't want crazy lengths.</comment>


What's with putting the CSS in the head? - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/coding-design/24888fbbd2e2

<comment><USER2> So the concern of being able to cache the CSS (and delivering a smaller amount of data in subsequent requests) is now a non-factor when it comes to maximizing your page speed (or minimizing paint time, or however you want to describe it)?</comment>


Can we escape from information overload? - <AUTHOR> https://www.1843magazine.com/features/can-we-escape-from-information-overload <comment><USER3> From Technopoly (1992) by Neil Postman:

In the United States, we have 260,000 billboards; 11,250 newspapers; 11,556 periodicals; 27,000 video outlets for renting video tapes; more than 500 million radios; and more than 100 million computers. Ninety-eight percent of American homes have a television set; more than half our homes have more than one. There are 40,000 new book titles published every year (300,000 worldwide), and every day in America 41 million photographs are taken. And if this is not enough, more than 60 billion pieces of junk mail (thanks to computer technology) find their way into our mail-boxes every year.

From millions of sources all over the globe, through every possible channel and medium — light waves, airwaves, ticker tapes, computer banks, telephone wires, television cables, satellites, printing presses — information pours in. Behind it, in every imaginable form of storage — on paper, on video and audio tape, on discs, film, and silicon chips — is an ever greater volume of information waiting to be retrieved. Like the Sorcerer's Apprentice, we are awash in information. And all the sorcerer has left us is a broom.

Information has become a form of garbage, not only incapable of answering the most fundamental human questions but barely useful in providing coherent direction to the solution of even mundane problems. To say it still another way: The milieu in which Technopoly flourishes is one in which the tie between information and human purpose has been severed, i.e., information appears indiscriminately, directed at no one in particular, in enormous volume and at high speeds, and disconnected from theory, meaning, or purpose.

All of this has called into being a new world. I have referred to it elsewhere as a peek-a-boo world, where now this event, now that, pops into view for a moment, then vanishes again. It is an improbable world. It is a world in which the idea of human progress, as Bacon expressed it, has been replaced by the idea of technological progress. The aim is not to reduce ignorance, superstition, and suffering but to accommodate ourselves to the requirements of new technologies. We tell ourselves, of course, that such accomodations will lead to a better life, but that is only the rhetorical residue of a vanishing technocracy.

We are a culture consuming itself with information, and many of us do not even wonder how to control the process. We proceed under the assumption that information is our friend, believing that cultures may suffer grievously from a lack of information, which, of course, they do. It is only now beginning to be understood that cultures may also suffer grievously from information glut, information without meaning, information without control mechanisms.

<comment><USER4> > Information has become a form of garbage, not only incapable of answering > the most fundamental human questions but barely useful in providing coherent > direction to the solution of even mundane problems.

We can now add one more entry to this. Contagion. Once again all national surveillance mechanism, almighty as they are, didn't make a dent in avoiding a pandemic. They know everything about anybody but either resources are spent on useless errands or political structure is the main bottleneck in nation scale information processing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Given the title, there should be a TL;DR.

<comment><USER6> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines)

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Requires trusted institutions to rise above the noise. Imagine more like bitcoin than NYT.

<comment><USER4> I use to think that the previous era had a better balance in that regard. We're high frequency high bandwidth but that only raised the noise floor.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> [https://archive.vn/fVUYv](https://archive.vn/fVUYv)

</comment><comment><USER9> > Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is > writing a book.

[https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/56217-times-are-bad- childre...](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/56217-times-are-bad-children-no- longer-obey-their-parents-and)

<comment><USER10> Oh love it Also Cicero

>The poor are working and working >The rich exploit the poor >Miltary protects both

>Taxpayer pays for all three >Banker robs all four >Lawyer misleads all five

>Doctor bills all six >Goons scare all seven

And politician live happily on the money of all of the above.

<comment><USER9> Good one. World never really change I guess, its human nature.

<comment><USER11> True, but unfortunately this quote only dates back to 2012. [https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ciceros-view-of- life/](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ciceros-view-of-life/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Original link, with no paywall: [https://www.1843magazine.com/features/can-we- escape-from-inf...](https://www.1843magazine.com/features/can-we-escape-from- information-overload)

<comment><USER13> Changed from [https://www.economist.com/news/2020/05/06/can-we-escape- from...](https://www.economist.com/news/2020/05/06/can-we-escape-from- information-overload). Thanks!

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Tbh this is mostly because of the plunder of the commons. There are monopolistic corporate enclosures all around, embedded in a globalized 'free market' neo-liberal system which has given rise to the most unequitable system to have ever existed: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnYhZCUYOxs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnYhZCUYOxs)

What inspires me is 'Commons based peer production' (Benkler) and Protocol Cooperativism using the Holochain pattern (Arthur Brock and Eric Harris-Braun) - which enables 'free' (as in freedom) mutual-credit community currencies.

</comment><comment><USER15> Sure! Just add more paywalls!

</comment><comment><USER16> I can't bypass the paywall, but I infer from the title and some of the comments that at least part of the problem is the proliferation in the number of books being written. From what I see, the solution is pretty simple - <USER2> and use book summary sites.

Now, obviously you don't just want to read "Cliff's Notes" versions of _everything_ \- that leads to shallow thinking. However, many of the nonfiction books that I've read can have 80% of their value summarized in far less than 20% of the number of words that they use, and a wise person would judge whether or not a book deserved this treatment before applying it.

<comment><USER17> I read the article and it has nothing to do with too many books being written or basically any of the other comments here.

It is a very interesting story about a man spending increasingly more time in darkness, the experiences he has there, his return into the real world and how it influenced his work and how he is now helping others to have similiar experiences.

PS: reloading the page in Firefox' reader mode showed it in full to me. Go to reader mode and then reload if you only see part of the article.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Imho this isn't a modern problems. Library of Alexandria got burned, Classic books prevailed therefore those are the only "good" information. If you are overwhelm just focus the selection e.g Bible , The Harvard Classics. Instead of reading classics books without any selection you'll get overwhelmed. Just see how much self help books are there compared to a few old books

<comment><USER18> > No greater mistake can be made than to imagine that what has been written > latest is always the more correct; that what is written later on is an > improvement on what was written previously; and that every change means > progress. Men who think and have correct judgment, and people who treat > their subject earnestly, are all exceptions only. Vermin is the rule > everywhere in the world: it is always at hand and busily engaged in trying > to improve in its own way upon the mature deliberations of the thinkers. So > that if a man wishes to improve himself in any subject he must guard against > immediately seizing the newest books written upon it, in the assumption that > science is always advancing and that the older books have been made use of > in the compiling of the new. They have, it is true, been used; but how? The > writer often does not thoroughly understand the old books; he will, at the > same time, not use their exact words, so that the result is he spoils and > bungles what has been said in a much better and clearer way by the old > writers; since they wrote from their own lively knowledge of the subject. He > often leaves out the best things they have written, their most striking > elucidations of the matter, their happiest remarks, because he does not > recognise their value or feel how pregnant they are. It is only what is > stupid and shallow that appeals to him. An old and excellent book is > frequently shelved for new and bad ones; which, written for the sake of > money, wear a pretentious air and are much eulogised by the authors' > friends. In science, a man who wishes to distinguish himself brings > something new to market; this frequently consists in his denouncing some > principle that has been previously held as correct, so that he may establish > a wrong one of his own. Sometimes his attempt is successful for a short > time, when a return is made to the old and correct doctrine. These > innovators are serious about nothing else in the world than their own > priceless person, and it is this that they wish to make its mark.

\- Arthur Schopenhauer

<comment><USER10> oh... i didn't ask for this</comment></comment></comment>


Daiwa to adopt blockchain for Myanmar stock trading - <AUTHOR> http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Daiwa-to-adopt-blockchain-for-Myanmar-stock-trading <comment><USER3> I started writing a furious "why would you even do this?"-style post, but this paragraph stood out:

>Blockchain technology shares transaction records with multiple computers. Stock trading is typically saved in servers at bourses, but records cannot be referenced when communications infrastructure fails.

>Using blockchain systems, brokerages can continue a minimum of operations, such as checking past transaction records and outstanding balances even when failures occur, although new transactions cannot be checked.

The "blockchain as a distributed transaction DB" concept is more interesting than I thought, and it's probably really easy to get started given all the bitcoin tech around.

<comment><USER4> > The "blockchain as a distributed transaction DB" concept is more interesting > than I thought

Not particularly. It's using the wrong tool for the job. A distributed database is helpful in many ways, but you don't need an attached proof-of-work system.

<comment><USER5> > Not particularly. It's using the wrong tool for the job. A distributed > database is helpful in many ways, but you don't need an attached proof-of- > work system.

Blockchain doesn't imply PoW. You could consider each block minted with e.g. a M of N signature scheme, in the case of a stock-trading system you don't need open anonymous/participation and it's quite fine to rely on trusted parties.

<comment><USER4> I suppose, but at that point you're really blurring the line between 'blockchain' and 'authenticated database logs', and it starts to become a mere buzzword.

<comment><USER6> Yeah, every invoicing software in my country hash chains the documents for validation purposes (it's a requirement for SAF-T[1]), yet we don't call it a "blockchain".

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAF-T](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAF-T)

<comment><USER5> Because there are no blocks, no transaction ordering and no distributed consensus?

<comment><USER6> A block is just a structure with a set of transactions, a date and the hash of the previous block. SAF-T has all that, except the "blocks" have a single transaction. Transaction ordering is provided by the chain of hashes - <USER2> record/block links to the previous, just like in the Blockchain.

There is no distributed consensus, but that's the point - there doesn't seem to be here either.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


An update to UBlock Origin was rejected by the Chrome Web Store - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/issues/880 <comment><USER2> Update: "We apologize that the update was rejected due to an snag in the review system. The updated item will be available in the Chrome Web Store within 30 minutes."

<comment><USER3> Just got the extension update notification, seems like update 1.3.2 has been released. Nothing like a top HN post to grease the wheels.

<comment><USER4> HN seems to be the official support channel for Google.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Headline is wrong. An update to the plugin was rejected (with the option to resubmit), but the previous version is clearly still in the store: [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock- origin/cjpa...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock- origin/cjpalhdlnbpafiamejdnhcphjbkeiagm?hl=en)

I empathize with the developer, but Occam's Razor suggests this isn't anything more than a typically crummy vague Walled Garden app store rejection. I'd take their advice and re-submit.

<comment><USER6> Yes, it still is in the store as of now.

However the email I received is titled "Chrome Web Store: Removal notification for uBlock Origin".

In any case, it's just impossible for me to figure what is the issue. I could spend a inordinate amount of time guess-shuffling code around for no result.

Assuming the email title is misleading -- let's say uBlock Origin won't be removed from the Chrome store, there is nothing special in 1.3.2 compared to any other releases, and from the look of it I won't ever be able to fix whatever is deemed wrong without specifics, and as a consequence, no updates lead to abandonware.

Edit: I will add that with Firefox and Opera, there has always been communication with specifics when I was asked to fix something, and I always did fix as demanded (or suggested).

<comment><USER7> Are the block lists maybe considered code?

Updating them at first start would fit the description of not having them visible in the package.

<comment><USER6> The filter lists which are selected by default are part of the package. An updated versions of these lists is progressively downloaded a few minutes after first install. But this has been like this since forever now, this is not new.

This demonstrates the problem here, we are left to speculate endlessly about what the is the issue(s) according to the Chrome store.

<comment><USER8> Or you could, you know, email them like the email says to do.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I've switched over from ABP to UBlock Origin. UBO is so much faster than ABP, uses fewer resources, and does a better job. And, most importantly, they do not get in bed with the ad companies to arrange for acceptable ads. There are no acceptable ads in my view (no pun intended). I block ads precisely because they use my bandwidth, they are a vector for malware, they interfere with my viewing of websites, they track me (this should be illegal), many, many more bad things.

In addition to UBlock Origin, I block DOM, HTTP/S referrer, CSS visited links (surfing history viewable by websites), block WebRTC (leaks private IP address schemas), and more. I have a right to a clutter-free Internet that is not tracking me, using my bandwidth without my consent, and doing everything to make money from me without my consent or sharing with me should it do so. No, thank you. I will continue to block all ads, tracking cookies, beacons, you name it. I somewhat enjoy the cold war between users and the ad companies.

<comment><USER10> What a magical world you live in where everything is free and no one needs to be paid for their work.

Ads have been abused by companies over the years but whitelisting sites that whose content and services you value and don't abuse you with those ads are the only reason they can afford to exist.

Edit: I get it, you don't want ads. People have abused them over the years and that's bad. My only point is that whitelisting (or donating/subscribing to where possible) the sites you value keeps those sites running. It's nice that some sites don't need financial support to pay for reporters, editors, producers, and photographers but that's not the case for many sites that do great journalism.

<comment><USER11> The good old "there can not be free-of-cost content unless money is involved" fallacy.

I am a member of many communities whose hosting costs are paid by the communities, the administrative tasks are shared by members of the communities, I "consume" many sites which only exist because their authors want to express themselves, I use sites that exist because people feel the need to share their knowledge and collections of bytes. They all exist without a single ad. They exist because someone wants them to exist.

This comment was written and shared for free on the web without restrictions because I felt the urge to write it.

<comment><USER10> Not all news and content creation can be done as a side job or hobby. The people who do journalism, create content, or support that goal of quality journalism need to make a living somehow.

<comment><USER11> Absolutely. And I wholeheartedly think that enough people support high quality journalism. See the 1 million online subscribers to the NY Times.

The majority of online journalism seems to be regurgitated news agency reports and stuff that no one needs (or can get free from communities elsewhere _).

_ lots of forums, blogs and aggregators perfected clickbait and cat picture distributions a decade ago.

<comment><USER12> You picked a particularly terrible example, since the Times hasn't stopped struggling since introducing an online subscription, and most depressingly, is starting to experiment with the same clickbait bullshit that Buzzfeed popularized (things like increasingly questionably labeled "sponsored stories").

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> _" Where possible, make as much of your code visible in the package as you can. If some of your app's logic is hidden and it appears to be suspicious, we may remove it."_

This is the policy it "broke" apparently. Despite the entire app being open source and commented, someone at Google could not understand his code and hence found it obfuscated or "suspicious".

<comment><USER14> Textbook harassment here. Google is upset these guys are hurting ad impressions. I wonder if this is the beginning of an ad blocking backlash.

<comment><USER12> That's an enormous tinfoil hat, even by hn standards

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> >Dear Developer,

>We apologize that the update was rejected due to an snag >in the review system. The updated item will be available >in the Chrome Web Store within 30 minutes.

>Thank you for your cooperation, >Google Chrome Web Store team

so a non story?

<comment><USER16> That happened after this being at the top of HN.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Looks like someone from Google noticed and apologized [https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/issues/880#issuecomment-15...](https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/issues/880#issuecomment-152184030).

</comment><comment><USER18> I work at a young startup (redmorph.com) building a similar privacy extension, and we've run into the exact same problem multiple times. While I understand that Google has a large volume of code to review, even an automated analysis tool could split out a line number and filename to reduce the guesswork :P

I have to add my shameless pitch to this thread, and I hope that fellow builders/entrepreneurs/startup-ers will emphasize with the fight to get attention/users:

uBlock is a great tool but it doesn't offer any network-level services, so you're still exposing IP/geo-location and potentially content sent over HTTP (as opposed to HTTPS). My company, RedMorph, will soon offer in-extension encrypted (AES-256) proxy at the first paid tier (we need to charge to cover infrastructure cost, it's still in beta) but you can download our free tracker blocking extension in the meantime. It's designed with usability in mind, so the average user can "plug-and-play". We're especially interested in empowering non-technical parents and children.

I'll be adding uBlock to this comparison soon: [https://redmorph.com/articles/proof-in-the- packet.html](https://redmorph.com/articles/proof-in-the-packet.html)

Thanks for your time, I appreciate thoughts and feedback!

</comment><comment><USER19> Not the first time Chrome Web Store people mess with uBlock Origin: [https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/issues/50](https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/issues/50)

</comment><comment><USER20> This is resolved now. Thanks sowbug !

Still worried about these "goofs" from walled gardens… Most of the time there is simply no way out for small developers.

</comment><comment><USER21> The core reasons appears:

>"Where possible, make as much of your code visible in the package as you can. If some of your app's logic is hidden and it appears to be suspicious, we may remove it."

Which maybe true, but odd as the project is publicly hosted freeware. It could be a case of simply an automatic algorithm making an incorrect call.

Its also worth considering Google's primary revenue stream is advertisement, which uBlock attempts to subvert to a degree.

<comment><USER22> Careful with words. It's not freeware, it's free software.

<comment><USER21> I'd just like to interject for a second...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> "Please reply to this email for issues regarding this item removal."

Maybe he could try that?

<comment><USER24> Google is famous for never responding to anything. Which is fine; that's their business model. However, it does mean that if they wanted to communicate, they would have included the full description of the issues, in the email that notified him of the existence of the issues. It's not like they sent him a tweet. Emails can include lots of detail.

<comment><USER25> Well, you are guaranteed they won't respond if you don't send a email to them.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> That reminds me... _installs uBlock Origin_

</comment><comment><USER27> Apps that do controversial things with respect to Apple or Google seem to get rejected for seemingly random technical reasons a lot.

What does it even _mean_ for code in a packaged program to be "visible"? It should be invisible! That's the whole point of packaging!

<comment><USER28> > Apps that do controversial things with respect to Apple or Google seem to > get rejected for seemingly random technical reasons a lot.

This is regarding the chrome web store, not the play store. Also, I'm aware of Apple taking a pretty heavy handed approach, but I'm not convinced Google has a history of this.

> What does it even mean for code in a packaged program to be "visible"? It > should be invisible! That's the whole point of packaging!

Perhaps you are assuming this is the play store instead of the chrome web store? Web store apps are just web pages. They want to ensure the packages are easy to inspect and understand. It's a rule that appears to be attempting to maintain open web standards. Given that this is HN, I assume that's enough of a justification for anyone reading this comment.

<comment><USER29> It's hard to wonder if Google doesn't "have a history" when they banned all ad blockers from the Play Store and are (maybe) rejecting ad blockers from the Chrome Web store for vague technical reasons, particularly when their business model revolves around ads.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> The update is accepted as well now. [https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/issues/880#issuecomment-15...](https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/issues/880#issuecomment-152195504)

</comment><comment><USER31> And it's resolved: "Dear Developer,

We apologize that the update was rejected due to an snag in the review system. The updated item will be available in the Chrome Web Store within 30 minutes."

</comment><comment><USER32> I think Hanlon's razor applies here:

> Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

<comment><USER33> I wonder if there's a razor for benefitting publicity-wise when this misattribution is made.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> I think Google sometimes is vague when it comes to bans and take downs. There are times they don't give clear reason which part exactly of their rules and regulation was being violated. It then becomes a puzzle to solve otherwise it's a sad story for content owners.

</comment><comment><USER35> It was just sorted out. It'll be in the store within minutes apparently.

</comment><comment><USER36> Will this affect those of us who already have it installed?

<comment><USER37> In the immediate term, no, it shouldn't. The update was rejected, but the already published version remains up. There's nothing catastrophic in the earlier version.

In the medium term, yes, because if this issues can't be resolved then the Chrome version will be stuck on that version and lag behind other browsers.

And while there are hoops you can jump through, if it's not approved on the Chrome Web Store, it's not getting in your Chrome.

On the plus side, sounds like good news for Opera.

<comment><USER38> Can you not install extensions directly any more?

<comment><USER37> Not in the Stable or Beta channels of Chrome. (There may be a way of re- enabling it, but frankly, Opera or something Chromium based.)

[https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/2811969?hl=en- GB](https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/2811969?hl=en-GB)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> Solution: Firefox

<comment><USER20> Since it now requires extension signing they could decide to revoke any extension they decide. Of course the process is more open, but it's also a walled garden :-(

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> If it goes against Google business model, I could see why they'd wanna see the source code. Maybe to serve adds that can bypass the algorithms.

</comment><comment><USER41> There are a bit less than 1000 lines changed from 1.2.0 to 1.3.2 ([https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/compare/1.2.0...1.3.2](https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/compare/1.2.0...1.3.2)) I'm pretty sure google's Chrome dev team could check them by hand in less than a day and be a little more specific on what is their real problem with this submission !

</comment><comment><USER42> Besides findability, what benefits does the Chrome Web Store provide to extension developers? Does Chrome prevent or somehow limit the functionality of extensions that aren't coming from the store?

(I developed a few Chrome extensions 5 years ago and used to distribute them "by hand" to users, but haven't much followed what has happened since).

<comment><USER43> You can't install extensions "by hand" any more, unless you turn on developer mode. And then you see a nag screen every time you start Chrome. Unless you're on Linux.

[https://www.chromium.org/developers/extensions-deployment- fa...](https://www.chromium.org/developers/extensions-deployment-faq#TOC-Why- do-I-see-a-bubble-about-Disable-developer-mode-extensions-when-loading-an- unpacked-extension-in-Windows-stable-beta-channels-)

<comment><USER42> Thanks for the answer and the link; didn't know that (May 2015: it's recent...)

Surprised by the downvotes, wasn't the question legitimate? Or is it obvious and old news for anyone but me...?</comment></comment></comment>


Sqlite browser - <AUTHOR> http://sqlitebrowser.org/ <comment><USER2> Hi, one of the SQLite Browser team here. Thanks for posting this. :)

(Though, I'm kinda wondering why? ;> Our last release was nearly 2 months ago, and nothing super special happened in the last few days from memory... maybe I'm forgetting something? ;>)

Anyway, it's all good promo I suppose. :D

<comment><USER3> Yes. I did not know about it and it seems like a useful tool. I'm glad to see it at least.

<comment><USER2> Thanks. :)

Yeah, it's pretty reasonable for doing stuff with SQLite databases, and supports encryption. It's also GPL/MPL licensed, written in C++/Qt, so is fairly cross platform. Precompiled downloads available for OSX/Win, and it's in the packaging/ports system of several Linuxs & BSDs. :)

We're kinda needing more C++ dev's though, as the GitHub Issues list is getting a bit out of hand at the moment. O_o

Download stats wise... I think it's about 120k/month through GitHub:

      https://api.github.com/repos/sqlitebrowser/sqlitebrowser/releases

(that's a rough guesstimate from last time I looked :>)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Note that SQuirreL SQL [1] or just about any JDBC compliant SQL client combined with Sqlite's JDBC driver [2] can be used to interrogate/manipulate the structure and the data stored in Sqlite database files.

[1]: [http://squirrel-sql.sourceforge.net/](http://squirrel- sql.sourceforge.net/)

[2]: [https://github.com/xerial/sqlite-jdbc](https://github.com/xerial/sqlite- jdbc)

</comment><comment><USER5> This is probably the best free, multiplatform sqlite GUI. I've tried many apps and I've stuck with Sqlite Browser for about two years now. It's great and does its job perfectly! Can't praise it enough :)

</comment><comment><USER6> I used v1.x back in the days. SQLite was still little known and it was the only UI tool. The project was dead for some years (in v1.x days), good to see some brought new life to it and it's still in development.

</comment><comment><USER7> I wrote a little web based sqlite database manager: [https://github.com/coleifer/sqlite-web](https://github.com/coleifer/sqlite- web)

</comment><comment><USER8> You can really tell a programmer made that UI. Wow.

<comment><USER4> If you'd like to criticize or praise their UI, it'd be helpful to others if you made it explicit, so in the least the developers could learn the strong/weak points of their work.</comment></comment>


Targeted Attacks Against Tibetan and Hong Kong Groups Exploiting CVE-2014-4114 - <AUTHOR> https://citizenlab.org/2015/06/targeted-attacks-against-tibetan-and-hong-kong-groups-exploiting-cve-2014-4114/ <comment><USER2> "This campaign, 'Detach from Attachments,' urges users to avoid sending or opening email attachments, and to use cloud-based storage to send files like Google Drive as an alternative."

\-- Seems an entirely wrong-headed approach - easily defeated as this exploit showed (even a conventional virus could spread download links or even upload more files). Shouldn't the campaign involve avoid insecure files in insecure format from unknown or unverified sources?

<comment><USER3> > Shouldn't the campaign involve avoid insecure files in insecure format from > unknown or unverified sources?

That's an interesting question. I think answering in the affirmative is infeasible.

Slightly smarter user behavior is part of the solution, sure, but users should not bear much if any of the burden of determining whether a file is secure (in this case, by remembering what file formats can include an OLE object and whether those are secure to open yet) and whether the many links of authentication all hold.

Oh, I got this message via <channel> from <person>, how do I know <person> actually sent it, or not? Well, <several entities> were involved in <system that delivered it>, do I trust all of them? Oh, I don't need to, because <other systems> authenticated the message. But what's the probability that <person> is either trying to infect me, or has an infected machine that's infecting any <format> files they send me? What other attack vectors are there? The rabbit hole runs deep.

Computers should just work. When a user thinks he got a message from <person> but it's not actually from <person>, that's not the user's fault, but the system's. When a message that the user expects to show him a bunch of pictures (slides from a presentation) actually contains executable code that takes control of his machine, that's not the user's fault for not knowing the latest CVEs are.

<comment><USER4> Yes, certainly, computers should be safe. But they aren't. So another less idealistic defense is to teach fear to users. Just as I have to induce fear of cars to my kids (annoyingly necessary), I will tell them to not trust anything coming from computers.

I'm old now and I'm in computers since I was maybe 14, and, believe me or not, I've never told my name to my computer.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I think this is the OLE vulnerability we were discussing last week:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9821405](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9821405)

<comment><USER5> I'm sorry for posting this; I didn't realize I was detracting from the conversation. And since it's too late to delete, I must suffer additional downvotes.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> The CVE entry dates it as going way back to 2014 though?

<comment><USER5> Apparently it was discovered and raised as an exploit, never patched, and never used until today? It makes me wonder how many other known unpatched exploits like this are out in the tall grass.

<comment><USER7> It looks like it was patched (as far as I can tell): [https://technet.microsoft.com/en- us/library/security/ms14-06...](https://technet.microsoft.com/en- us/library/security/ms14-060.aspx)

Is the problem that many people in China are using XP, or pirated versions of windows that don't get updates?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> If this post is being upvoted because of "Tibet" please remember that the US, UK and every other EU member state officially recognizes Tibet as part of the sovereign territory of China.

<comment><USER9> When you're dealing with a state that has the economic clout that China has, and the kinds of hyper-reactive sensitivities that China has about Tibet [1], you tend to defer for sake of a smoothly functioning global economy, whether you agree with their position or not.

[1] For example, barring people from getting a Chinese visa _for life_ for publicly making pro-Tibet statements.

Another: you need an "internal" visa, issued from within China, to get into Tibet [2]. If you mention on your visa application to get into China in the first place, however, that you want to visit Tibet, your Chinese visa is automatically denied. Essentially, you have to _lie_ to the state about the purpose of your trip, if you want to visit Tibet. No, they don't have any issues there at all...

[2] Unless you're flying into Lhasa from Kathmandu, where you can get a direct-entry visa.

EDIT: footnotes.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: What are some good documentaries to watch? - <AUTHOR> A similar thread has been posted 5 1/2 years ago, and I've wanted to see what new content is out there. Additionally, I'm building a website that features documentaries, so I'd like to discover new content for it. Creative Commons or similar type of licensed documentaries are especially welcome, as I'd like to offer them for streaming for free. <comment><USER2> My three favorite documentaries are:

\- Earthlings - [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0358456/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0358456/)

\- Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills (1996) - [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117293/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117293/)

\- Cowspiracy: The Sustainability Secret - [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3302820/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3302820/) (some have questioned some specifics presented in the documentary, it is on my list of favorites for the overall point it makes about sustainability as it relates to animal agriculture)

</comment><comment><USER3> My favorites are:

Human: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdb4XGVTHkE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdb4XGVTHkE)

Earthlings: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHZUuR1Udno](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHZUuR1Udno)

Samsara: [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0770802/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0770802/)

</comment><comment><USER4> Here is the list of my favorite documentaries: \- The Cove \- Food, Inc. \- The Century Of The Self \- Inside Job \- Earthlings \- Samsara \- Earth \- A Map For Saturday \- The Story Of India

</comment><comment><USER5> Shenzhen: The Silicon Valley of Hardware [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY)

</comment><comment><USER6> 20 years old now but this is a great history of the rise of the PC with lots of familiar faces: [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115398/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115398/)

</comment><comment><USER7> Planet Earth -I & II

The World at War

Fog of War

Citizen Four

And Many More...</comment>


Lengthy Instapaper outage - <AUTHOR> Instapaper is down and has been so for the past 13-15 hours. The site is producing a 503 Maintenance error.
The last status update was a tweet 13 hours ago informing users that they are trying to fix the problem https://twitter.com/instapaper/status/829480689359687680
I work from Southeast Asia and basically my whole day has been disrupted by this outage.
As I work a lot with content, this makes me realize how dependent I am on this single service.
I wonder if I in the future should start mirroring everything I put into Instapaper in Pocket as well, just to not let a downtime affect me as much as this one did. <comment><USER2> Same here. It has been ~24 hours and I cannot save links to Instapaper from where I am (South Asia).

I am a bit surprised about how quiet the Internet (or hacker news) is about this outage. Either this service is not being used by many people, or the inconvenience might be too minor for most, OR the outage is only impacting this part of the world.

Going to try Pocket.

<comment><USER3> Instapaper is down in US as well.

I agree with your surprise.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> They have published a blog post with a short explanation [http://blog.instapaper.com/post/157027537441](http://blog.instapaper.com/post/157027537441).

The post mentiones an uptime of 99 % for 2016 and it's true - I cannot even remember when the service was down last time.

</comment><comment><USER4> I'm also trying to find an alternative to instapaper. As I understand it, unless you pay for pocket, you can't save it offline? It's been out 24 hours for me as well, very inconvenient and I lost all my content when it tried to re-upload

<comment><USER5> I use a combination of Instapaper and Pinboard. You do need to pay for the offline mode, same as with Pocket by the sound of it but maybe Pinboard would be a suitable alternative for you?

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> It's back.</comment>


Investors of the DAO: unlimited liability for their partnership's misdeeds? - <AUTHOR> http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-05-17/blockchain-company-wants-to-reinvent-companies? <comment><USER2> Reversion of a business enterprise to a partnership seems a rather overwhelming concern, as DAO seems to be creating full-liability (general) partnerships as a substitute for the modern corporation.

The advantages of the corporation are not just its capacity to organization decision making but also, among others:

1\. limited liability of shareholders/owners

2\. hundreds of years of legislative advancement and precedents giving relatively unambiguous roles and responsibilities – including record keeping, ownership, and tax

3\. legal impersonation of a person, giving right to property ownership, insurability, and others

4\. survivorship and estate planning of its incorporators

There are a variety of legal entities that could be used in place of the corporation, including partnerships of various forms, trusts, and a variety of sometimes-fancy associations (e.g. the Swiss Verein). The corporation has become dominant for a reason, the reasons for which did not seem addressed by the DAO, as far as I saw.

The advancements of technology strikes me as a necessary but relatively minor part of a multitude of state social structures that need to be simultaneously advanced to make this a choice comparable to the modern corporation.

None of which is to say that the corporation is the optimal mechanism for organizing business, but I'm not yet convinced that technological advancement alone is sufficient to compete. Other things have to catch up.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> "The DAO's investors [...] might now be keenly interested in whether they are in fact general partners in the DAO under local law. Because general partners tend to have unlimited liability for their partnership's misdeeds. Even if the smart contract says otherwise. Without the protections of limited liability based in local law, all you have to rely on is cryptography."</comment>


Ask HN: Countries with sane governments that won't mess with my Internet use? - <AUTHOR>

What countries have governments that have not/are not currently planning to pass stuff like SOPA and don't mess with how people use the internet? Ones that won't block websites at the drop of a hat, for completely bogus/absurd reasons? <comment><USER2> Estonia prides itself on running a progressive show with first class support for the Internet (voting for the government takes place online, for example), they stream almost-hard porn on TV before the watershed (it's just not in their culture to care about these things – as a UK citizen, was shocked to find a lesbian movie playing on terrestrial there), English literacy is amazing in the capital (Tallinn) especially among young people, rental and general prices for everything are dirt cheap, and intra-Europe flights are dirt cheap (return ticket to Ireland for €100), with easy access to Russia too (visa free 3 day trips to St Petersberg by ferry).

Not to mention Tallinn is one of the most amazingly relaxing old towns packed with coffee shops with free fast wifi.

Finland (next door neighbour) also has awesome broadband/free wifi penetration, only the MPAA's paw marks have been left all over their courts recently (The Pirate Bay is blocked by several major ISPs in the country)

</comment><comment><USER3> Switzerland. As stated by the government : [[http://www.ejpd.admin.ch/content/ejpd/fr/home/dokumentation/...](http://www.ejpd.admin.ch/content/ejpd/fr/home/dokumentation/mi/2011/2011-11-30.html)]

Unfortunately the document is not available in English.

<comment><USER4> The press release is: [https://www.ige.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/Juristische_Infos/e...](https://www.ige.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/Juristische_Infos/e/press_releases/Medienmitteilung_Savary_e.pdf)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Switzerland, Finland, Sweden, Japan.

Numerous other small countries, often financial havens too.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_by_country>

<comment><AUTHOR> Whoa! Thanks for the link, have an upvote.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> What about the Netherlands.

Net Neutrality:

[http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/255296/dutch_n...](http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/255296/dutch_net_neutrality_to_become_reality_after_senate_approves_law.html)

<comment> sans-serif Net Neutrality has little to do with "censoring" the Internet

<comment><USER6> I thought it did. How do you think they differ?

Taken from Wikipedia: Network neutrality (also net neutrality, Internet neutrality) is a principle that advocates no restrictions by Internet service providers or governments on consumers' access to networks that participate in the internet.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_neutrality>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Germany has been successful in shaking of attempts to censor the net. Also the pirate party is gaining support every day and is at 11% on the federal level and entered a couple state parliaments.

<comment><USER8> But Germany do censor a lot, they're #2 in Google 'Censorship' Rankings: [http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,690569,00...](http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,690569,00.html)

A lot of YouTube videos cannot be played in Germany.

<comment><USER9> _A lot of YouTube videos cannot be played in Germany._

Part of that is due to music licencing laws and not allowing it to be streamed in Germany. More of a copyright case than free speech.

Though Germany does have some laws, like it's illegal to show the swastika, or to deny that the holocaust happened, etc.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Iceland and Norway are probably safe bets, though I hope you like fish.

<comment><USER11> Iceland is a special case here, as they built that into their constitution as part of their fight against the EU-attempt to control the country during the financial crisis. Or so I read. But as wikipedia is stating that icelands ISPs censor the internet currently[1], I'm not sure about the current situation there. But still, maybe a country to look further into.

[1]<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_Iceland>

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> I wonder why only Europe is discussed here at the moment. What about Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, Japan? South American countries?

(Myself, can only comment on Russia or Ukraine. Not aware of any Internet filtering in these two.)

<comment><USER13> Australia has some Internet Censorship issues ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Austral...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Australia)), but I don't live there so not sure how bad it is on the ground.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Romania is OK so far, plus it has cheap internet with great speed. There was a discussion to add some sort of (low) monitoring but haven't heard anything about this for some time, but so far no blocks or other internet limitations.

</comment><comment><USER15> Poland is quite good, but we have to be wary of our government as it tends to pass laws that we just hate (and they wonder then why tens of thousand ppl are on the streets protesting against those laws [they worry more about being reelected next time than about IP rights so they take them down]). But we are also most invigilated country in entire European Union. Though who knows what will be happening soon, as it seems that we will once more end up on US Watchlist (this time because of big pharma).

From what I know Iceland is very good place in this regard.

</comment><comment><USER16> Slovenia currently has no bans, no filtering, nothing. Broadband widely available. However, this might not be guaranteed in the future (but right now the government has too many other issues to deal with).

</comment><comment> specula-nest Not in India anymore. Vimeo, YouTube even Facebook are being targeted. [http://torrentfreak.com/india-orders-blackout-of-vimeo- the-p...](http://torrentfreak.com/india-orders-blackout-of-vimeo-the-pirate- bay-and-more-120504/)

[http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-02-21/socia...](http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-02-21/social- media/31082762_1_social-media-kapil-sibal-google-and-facebook)

</comment><comment><USER17> Thailand censors the net. They're very bad at it (reload a page a few times and you'll usually get through) but it's law nonetheless.

It's interesting to note that they don't censor sites for copyright infringement or piracy. They censor for moral reasons and violations of the country's lese-majesty law.

</comment><comment><USER13> As a counter point it doesn't matter too much if you live in a country that doesn't have SOPA, if America ever brought it in it'd still ripple across the net for every country.

</comment><comment><USER18> AFAIK the Scandinavian countries have a good record in this matter, well better than most other countries.

<comment><USER19> Perhaps they're not censoring much, but in Sweden you're constantly wiretapped.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FRA_law>

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Just remember that the attitudes of any country can change in the drop of a hat.

</comment><comment><USER21> Not Belgium...</comment>