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who cooks with AGA traditional oven ..what do you think?
I have been researching the AGA traditional oven - gas. Mrs. Ratfire in appliances wrote a very thoughtful post and email about her experience with her AGA. Much appreciated. I would like to know what other cooks have to say about their traditional AGA or if they have the total control how the on and off is working out. I live in NYC and if anyone is from NYC and wants to let me know what their experience is - who they bought from, installer, etc. I would much appreciate it.
I am asking in cooks because I am really interested in knowing what your experience is cooking with your AGA.
Cheers! Thank you.
Welcome to the Cooking Forum, from one New Yorker to another.
Let me first be clear, I do not have an AGA range, and I had no previous user experience with one either. Besides the fact that there is something bothers me a lot to have an oven that is on 24/7 365 days a year, I Just have a few uneducated opinions about Mrs. RatfireâÂÂs passionate praises of her AGA range.
1. âÂÂthe AGA burns a small amount of BTU's per hour, all the time. The install guy told me about 10 BTU's an hour.â That contradicts what she said later. 10 BTUs canâÂÂt even heat up a cup of coffee by much. âÂÂI had it off for a week once. The ambient temperature of my house dropped significantly- .âÂÂ
- âÂÂEVERTHING comes out DELICIOUS- far superior to any other oven. â Sound like a Ron Popell commercial to me. No appliance can make food delicious.
3. âÂÂThe thing is a cast iron box- the heat is moist and fantastic.â I donâÂÂt think so. Radiant heat is what you use to dry food.
4. âÂÂI took my normal gas stove and left it in the garage. I have it if I want to use a full baking sheet- a full one will not fit in AGA.â Therefore, assuming you have the mega bucks to buy an AGA range, make sure you also have the room to keep your back up stove.
5. âÂÂI do not prefer the AGA for baking, â Therefore if you bake, donâÂÂt buy an AGA?
I don't know anything about gas ones, but was brought up in a 16th century house with a coal-fired one. As Dcrch says, they're on all the time. Our house was cool even during a heatwave. I understand it gets very hot in New York in the summer. You need a big kitchen too as you can't snuggle up to one unless it's a cold day. As D says - it's an oven. A lot of snobbery goes with Agas so go and see one in a real house if you can. We had two hotplates. The oine directly above the fire was hotter than the other. A hot top oven for most cooking and a cooler oven below. They're great for warming your clothes on a cold morning!
Just to make clear, my previous post is not meant to say that AGA ranges are bad pieces of appliance. The features they offer can be great for many people.
There are different characteristics for people to be aware of when considering one.
For instance, weight. AGA can weight from 1,000 lbs to almost 2,000 lbs. A general range weighs under 250 lbs.
"The hearth or floor below the AGA must be strong enough to carry these weights as well as the extra weight of any plinth or slab used.
If the kitchen floor is suspended, it may require additional support underneath. Please check with your builder or a structural engineer.
The hearth must be also be non-combustible for a minimum thickness, dependent on the fuel type. See also the individual site requirements pages.
Any plinth or hearth must be absolutely level in all directions."
My cousins have one in their home in the UK (Leeds). It's wood burning.
The kitchen is tiny and is the hottest room in the house. In the damp cold weather (80% of the year) that's great but in summer....
We've spent many cold damp days gathered in the kitchen but in summer we avoid the kitchen and the rooms close to it at all cost
You cannot adjust the temperatures in the ovens. There are 4 ovens, all have a different temperature and you chose the oven based on temp not size. They are all smallish. Forget putting together a TG dinner where everything needs 350-400. You won't have enough room.
I don't cook much when we visit so don't recall how the hobs work exactly but I do know there was a warming hob where you could melt chocolate without a double boiler LOL (hey, its chocolate)
Jackie cooked mostly in the ovens and very little on the top and I always thought it was because of her cooking style but the thread linked below indicates it might have been due to the AGA which BTW, is BIG and red. It takes up almost one whole wall.
Here is a link that might be useful: GW thread
I have a four oven,black,Ive had mine over 22 years.I enjoy cooking on .On thanksgiving get everything ready put in different ovens.Company comes get it all out.
They tell you what you need we poured a cement slab under the stove,they install it,mine sits in brick arch.
You can buy cookie sheets I have quite a few all sizes,aga sells kettles to use on there I also use other la crusetI like
we had something put on ours to cut fuel etc.I have to ask hubby I don't remember.
I can sit container chochlate on warming tray it melts,gloves,jack russell backs her hiney up to it to get warm.So many uses,raise dough for bread,buns etc on top.
Boil water fast,
as far as cooking you can mae some great meals,long slow,fast whatever,Ive always loved to cook and bake you get use to how it works which oven to use ,just like a new car,Start everything on top,then finish in oven,Theres an oven ,simmer like crock pot,below is an oven warming,top right is broil,high baking ,cooking .Below that is slow or lower heat baking.2 huge burners on top,warming tray.
One thing I like is if electric goes out you can cook and keep warm.Ours was out a week already.
Yes you can there is a knob bottom front from 1-10 you can lower if youd like.
I really appreciate people responding and sharing their experiences and thoughts. Thank you. I am thinking of the 3 oven traditional gas - we don't have room for the 4 oven. We live in an apt. in nyc and there is currently no heat in the kitchen as there is no radiator. We are remodeling and there will be one smallish radiator. But if we do purchase the 3 oven, we will remove the radiator - cap it off. I am a bit concerned about the range of cooking with the 3 oven. it does not have a warming plate, nor of course the extra warming oven. Does anyone who cooks with the AGA know how this then works out - can you actually cook and consistently cook items on the 3 oven?
If you're in an apartment are you certain the floor can support the weight? An AGA can weigh over 1000 pounds! And that's without the concrete slab that has to go underneath.
IIRC if the floor is suspended, and what apt. floor isn't, you will need a structural engineer to certify it can support the weight.
In addition, how will you get it INTO your apartment.
when they come to install its in pieces,no problem there also if you want they look and tell you about what support & all you need,they did us but like I said hubby is a contractor.So we did that.Look up aga web site ,it will tell you about the 3 why wouldn't it do all your needs.I have the 4 with warm oven you said 3 without the warmer so it would do all mine does.
Mine is gas propane.We buried a big tank he comes like every 6 months to fill.
Makes no sense I have 4 the one is warming I feed 12 people like on Easter no problem we got ham in,casseroles put in So when guests get there time to serve.
Only problem I have in the 22+ years Ive had mine cant make round pizzas so I make rectangle pizzas on cookie sheets, so actually that's not a problem.
You start the food on top then finish in the ovens.
Ive dried clothing,Have a jar with a little candle left sit on there melts,smells good too.I use it for different crafts,shrinky dinks ..lol
Interestingly, there are 2 AGA cookers on CL in Maine right now. I'd love to have one, but the time is not right for me.
Here is a link that might be useful: Aga cooker in Maine
All locations have Building Codes specifying permissible floor loading per square foot. An AGA range most likely is a Code violation without supplemental structural support.
I would really be careful if you live in a seismic active zone. a 1,000 lb piece of metal shaking may create problems.
This post was edited by dcarch on Mon, Apr 8, 13 at 7:53
bulldinkie, I've never even heard of an AGA, so I had to look it up. That is one cool looking piece of equipment.
The weight wouldn't be an issue here, we seldom have earthquakes and the heat would be nice if the power goes out, which happens regularly.
The only problem is the price. (grin)
"---Why would it shake????They are solid,We had earthquakes mine has never moved.--"
There are many kinds of seismic force movements in the X,Y,Z dimensions during an earthquake. The AGA will mostly survive fine, It is very solid; however, due to it's weigh it may cause structural damage if it is not properly supported.
In a vigorous vertical shake, a 1,000 lb weigh can become more than a 10,000 force.
and what Im saying is..the aga people install it they know what theyre dealing withand what needs to be done.I really don't think its gonna move for anything it has a pipe going thru attic etc its heavy ,It is very well supported.The customer doesn't do any work.My hubby poured the slab but they told him what they wanted.
Did you ever get one? I can recommend my installer (who I think has NYC in his service area). Mine is inside my second floor apartment and has caused no issues. I have a large kitchen and a two oven aga; I did keep my conventional range too but only use it very rarely. It is handy to have for large or complicated meals and for cakes which need a longer bake at a moderate temperature. The Aga does make the kitchen extremely hot in summer; I plan to shut it off for June-August moving forward. It uses a fairly significant amount of gas too, costs me about $50 monthly to run it.
As a cooking tool it is fabulous! Excellent breads and incredible roast meats or veg. I don't understand the 'moist heat' comment but think she means that the radiant heat keeps the foods moist inside; my sense is that the ovens sear the outside of foods very quickly so the insides remain moist. There is also (I think) less air exchange in the ovens so vapors from cooking linger which may also help prevent drying out of food. Basic things like rice or potatoes (boiled, baked, or roasted) are so easy and almost impossible to screw up. Brings large pots of water to the boil incredibly fast (admittedly, it can only do this once and then needs time to recover). The ovens are small but can be filled right up; you cook stuff right on the floors and can pile pots on top of each other. The Aga cookware slides on the tracks on the sides of the ovens so you don't need to use shelves; I keep one shelf on the bottom of my simmering oven but otherwise don't use racks at all for the most part.
It is also lovely for keeping dry towels and dish rags and keeping the kitchen warm and drying shoes and damp coats etc.
The three oven adds a useful addition of 50% capacity over my two oven, plus a more moderate temperature for baking. I have heard that the baking oven tends to approach roasting oven temperatures when cooking a large meal but using the cold shelf and the large roasting tin helps to create a cooler micro-climate within the oven for things that need less intense heat.
If you have a good air conditioning system, you might be fine with just the three oven to run year-round. If you throw a lot of large dinner parties or think you might want to shut it off in summer, I would only install if you have space for a small conventional range or cooktop/wall-oven combo elsewhere in the kitchen. A couple of burners (electric or gas) would be useful. The extra cooking facilities are not required but are likely helpful.
Here is a link that might be useful: my Aga


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Wall Street Topics
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Malignant lymphoma is a neoplasm which originates in lymph tissue. It is not actually breast cancer, but can be difficult to distinguish from breast cancer in the early stages of disease. The early breast cancer screening mammography indicators for potentially malignant breast cancer are quite similar to malignant lymphoma, and as a result, malignant lymphoma of the breast is often misdiagnosed as breast cancer. A primary non-Hodgkin's lympoma of the breast is a very rare occurance, accounting for only about 0.1 to 0.5 % of all reported malignant breast tumors. Most patients who develop primary breast lymphoma will also develop metastasis to other regions of the body. There are various kinds of lymphomas, but the most common breast lymphoma is the B cell non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. In terms of clinical prognosis, an early diagnosis of a low grade or stage I lymphoma will generally give the best outlook.
A majority of patients with breast lymphoma present with a localized intermediate-grade lymphoma, and most cases presenting with disseminated disease actually have a low-grade lymphoma. On average, patients presenting with breast lymphomas are split between stage I and stage II tumors about 50% of the time. The average age of development for a breast lymphoma seems to be about 57 years. Lymphoma of the breast can develop in a younger women, but on the whole it is a disease that mostly affects older women.
In the clinical setting, a breast lymphoma might present as elastically firm, well-defined, and often multiple tumors. There might be other symptoms going on in other areas of the body, however. A women with lymphoma might also present with a marked but painless swelling of the thyroid, (indicating a more systemic disease state.) The most common symptoms of breast lymphoma are a painless breast mass, most frequently located in the outer quadrants ( and usually in the right breast, for some reason)
Mammography of a breast lymphoma might reveal a homogeneous density with regular borders, but without microcalcificaton or spiculation. Sometimes one just sees a faint 'tumor shadow'.
An ultrasonogram of lymphoma of the breast might typically reveal a coarse internal echo, a hypoechoic mass with an irregular border and occasionally a lobulated mass representing a very large tumor. The most likely ultrasound image for a breast lymphoma will be of a heterogenous lobulated hypoechoic mass.
Sometimes MRI can help detect a malignant breast lymphoma. A primary breast MRI is often visualized as a lobulated lesion with expansive and infiltrating features. However, breast MRI findings on lymphomas are quite non-specific. Still, breast MRI can help in the diagnosis and treatment of a breast lymphomas in that it can help determine the extent and number of lesions, and in finding any cutaneous, subcutaneous or nodal involvement of the contralateral breast.
Although the various imaging characteristics of a given breast tumor may suggest the possibility of breast non-hodgkin's lymphoma of the breast, none of the findings are pathognomonic. The imaging pattern of breast lymphoma is unrelated to its histopathologic subtype, and in fact, only a very small number of patients ultimately diagnosed with lymphoma of the breast actually present with clear B-cell lymphoma symptoms.
Histologically, breast lymphoma-tumors tend to infiltrate between mammary ducts, but do not tend to destroy them. Interestingly, it is actually quite difficult to distinguish malignant breast lymphoma from breast in the early stages, even when examining exisional biopsy and fine needle biopsy samples. Only when the disease really takes hold and one finds the clear presence of diffuse large B-cells can one make a definitive diagnosis. Most breast lymphomas are initially diagnosed as breast carcinoma, because that is what they appear to be. It usually takes a really high-power microscopic view to see the B-cells of breast lymphoma in evidence. When they are present, one might typically see an abnormal lymphoid population of small to medium sized centrocyte-like B-cells and monocytoid B-cells.
The therapeutic management of breast lymphoma is not as fully established as the treatment options for breast cancer, and some aspects remain a bit controversial. The first treatment priority for breast lymphoma is of course to determine whether the disease originates in the breast, or is systemic in nature. There are many different kinds of lymphoma, too many to be discussed here, but the kinds of lymphoma that form soft tissue masses in unusual locations such as the breast are generally more problematic to treat. However, there is usually some positive response to treatment.
The three main options for treatment are similar to breast cancers. Patients are usually treated either by surgical intervention alone (for localized breast tumors), surgery with chemotherapy, or surgery with radiation therapy and chemotherapy, a so-called multi-modal approach. Quite often, chemotherapy is withheld until there is evidence of a relapse, or, until there is evidence that the lymphoma is systemic in nature. Some breast lymphomas may be treated without surgery and just with radiation therarpy, and these tumors do tend to have the best prognosis, likely because the presentation was mild enough and found early enough that surgery and chemical therapy were not indicated.
Another intensive treatment option for breast lymphoma, should circumstances indicate, is to include high-dose chemotherapy supported by peripheral blood stem cell transplantation, but the use of stem cells is very controversial and not widely discussed. Essentially what happens in these more intensive types of treatment is that first a bone marrow sample is taken. Then, the physicians attempt to grow stems cells from the bone marrow in a laboratory setting. In the chemical treatment of the breast lymphoma, the lymphoma is 'poisened', which kills it, but this will often kill the patient's bone marrow as well. So, the doctors may then attempt to 'rescue' the damaged bone marrow by putting the saved sample, along with the newly grown stem cells, back into the patient.
Overall, breast lymphoma has a poor prognosis, and while there is still a good deal of success, the disease-free recover rates are in general quite a bit lower than for breast cancer. Without any kind of adjuvant therapy, the relapse rate for breast lymphomas treated by surgery alone is fairly high, and relapse can even occur up to ten years following breast surgery. However, no discernible factors, including stage or histologic findings, appear to consistently effect the recurrence rate. But generally, if a patient survives the early treatment phase of the disease, they tend to do very well.
Statistically, it would seem that about 35% of patients with lymphoma of the breast are treated by surgery and chemotherapy , and about 36% treated with surgery and chemotherapy and radiation, and about 20% treated by surgery with radiation. A smaller percentage, about 6%, are treated with surgery alone, and another very small subgroup is treated by radiation therapy alone.
The rates of complete remission of lymphoma of the breast tend to be around the 50% range, with a slightly higher success ratio for patients treated with surgery and chemotherapy. (Statistics regarding the success rates for different treatment modalities tend to be quite variable- the average success rates are about the same, but the 'best' treatment methods are not consistenly demostrated across many studies.) However, it must be remembered that the choice of treatment will usually depend upon many circunstances, including the health of the patient and the severity of the disease at the time of presentation. Unfortunately, the survival rates for breast lymphoma are not all that promising. It can be estimated that about 30% to 50% of patients with lymphoma of the breast will survive beyond two years. The overall survival rates are slightly higher for patients treated with surgery and radiation therapy without chemotherapy, but one cautions that the use of chemotherapy is usually indicated when the disease is already at a more advanced or systemic state, so those statistics can be misleading. However, it does appear that for patients who succumb to the disease, closure tends to occur in an average for seven months or so rather than a prolonged battle. So, if a patient with breast survival can survive beyond one to two years, chances are that the disease is in remission.
Generally speaking, the prognosis for breast lymphoma seems to be related to the histologic type and stage of the disease. If a breast lymphoma is graded as stage II, then the overal survival rates seem to be just below 30%, while the prognosis for stage I tumors is much better, with overall survival rates or 'freedom from probable progression' around 60%.
End of page Navigation links: Breast Cancer home or Back to top
Copyright © 1999 - present. Steven B. Halls, MD . 1-780-608-9141 . [email protected]


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WASHINGTON — The Obama administration declared Alzheimer's "one of the most-feared health conditions" on Wednesday as it issued a draft of the nation's first strategy to fight the devastating disease that is on the rise as the population ages.
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The top goal: Find some effective treatments by 2025, an ambitious quest. The plan also aims to help overwhelmed families care for affected loved ones in the meantime, and to improve earlier diagnosis so that patients can have a say in choosing their care.
The plan says that too often, stigma and misinformation about Alzheimer's and related dementias delay diagnosis and contribute to the isolation that worsens caregivers' burden. So among the promised first steps is a major campaign to better educate the public, and their primary care doctors, about Alzheimer's.
The effort was applauded by Alzheimer's disease advocates as a long-needed step toward addressing the pervasive problem. Eric J. Hall, president and CEO of the Alzheimer's Foundation of America said the plan will be part of a "series of small victories" to address prevention, delay and, eventually, cure of the disorder.
"AFA applauds HHS for making tremendous efforts and headway in capturing the unprecedented opportunity afforded by the National Alzheimer's Project Act to address the multiple challenges of Alzheimer's disease," Hall said in a statement. "As well, we reiterate our appreciation of the Obama Administration's historic $156 million investment that will enable immediate action on ideas developed through the national plan."
Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


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First POST: Dorian Mode
BY Micah L. Sifry | Friday, March 7 2014
Did Newsweek identify the wrong man as the inventor of Bitcoin?; defending Julian Assange from his critics; drone hobbyists get reason to rejoice; and much, much more. Read More
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Faced now with the inevitability of the their failure to reach the MDGs, development experts are again taking stock. In last year's highly anticipated report, the UN High Level Panel on the post-2015 development framework raised a number of eyebrows by calling for a data revolution to drive development. For multilaterals like the UNDP, this provides a unique opportunity to address dramatically different types of development processes and initiatives within a single program stream. Who doesn't want to be working on the side of the revolution (as they're calling it) when everyone agrees that the current regime is broken? Read More
From Sochi to Yerevan: Crowdfunding in the Caucasus
BY Onnik James Krikorian | Wednesday, February 12 2014
In July 2007, when the venue for the 2014 Winter Olympics was announced, writer-filmmaker Arnold van Bruggen and photographer Rob Hornstra embarked on an ambitious project to shine a light on the then little known Black Sea resort town of Sochi, in what was to become The Sochi Project. Without the help of crowdfunding, the project and the freedom through which filmmakers could create, would not have been possible. In fact, crowdfunding for civic-oriented projects is growing ever more popular in the Caucasus, especially as press freedom stagnates and foreign aid decreases. Read More
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Innovator's Dilemma: How SF's Rajiv Bhatia Pioneered Open Health Data and Ruffled Feathers
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During his fifteen-year tenure at San Francisco's Department of Public Health, Dr. Rajiv Bhatia excelled. By measuring the health impacts of proposed laws and policies, he created powerful tools to advocate on behalf of the disadvantaged. Gentrification is innately distasteful to many: Bhatia showed how it could be harmful. His work contributed to today's civic obsession with open data and transparency before those words began to buzz in the ears of bureaucrats, civic hackers and entrepreneurs. He looked at data politically, and searched for political fights to deploy it in. At least he did until June of last year. Read More
EU's First Anti-Corruption Report: What Role for Whistleblowers and Civil Society?
BY Antonella Napolitano | Wednesday, February 5 2014
There are no corruption-free zones in Europe. The bottom line of the first EU Anti-corruption report might be somewhat predictable, but it also represents a first and significant (albeit small) step to launch a debate inside the EU institutions. Read More


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Zeoli Show Log 1.14.15
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Attorney David Rudovsky worked with the ACLU in representing a class of plaintiffs in a 2010 suit against the city of Philadelphia over its stop and frisk policy.
Pa. Bill Would Outlaw Harassment By Posting X-Rated Photos of Ex
The proposed law would make it a crime to expose sexually explicit images of an "intimate partner" to a third party for the intent of harassment.
Nutter Urges All Pa. Mayors To Back Marriage Equality Campaign
The ACLU and marriage equality group "Freedom To Marry" are enlisting the help of Pennsylvania's mayors for a public education campaign.
Some Pa. Lawmakers Seeking 'In God We Trust' In Every Public School
The bill is sponsored by Pa. Rep. Rick Saccone (R-Allegheny County), and co-sponsored by Rep. Ronald Waters (D-Phila., foreground).
Nutter Declines To Marry Same-Sex Couples Until Pa. Law is Resolved
The two men from center city Philadelphia had asked Mayor Nutter to officiate at their wedding after obtaining a marriage license in Montgomery County.
NYC 'Stop-And-Frisk' Ruling Expected To Have Little Impact In Philly
A similar lawsuit in Philadelphia resulted in a settlement agreement two years ago, so Monday's ruling will have no impact here.


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Seroconverting After Pubic Hair
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HIV by eating a pubic hair?I was out eating at a diner and took a bite of my crepe when I felt something odd in my mouth and took it out to only find a pubic hair. Can HIV be passed this way?
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The Robert James Frascino AIDS Foundation...Hi,I'm really curious how you knew the hair in your crepe was actually a pubic hair! Oh never mind. It really doesn't matter, because even if it were a pubic hear, your HIV risk would be nonexistent. Dr. Bob Read more »
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Lamivudine (Epivir)What Is Lamivudine? Who Should Take Lamivudine? What About Drug Resistance? How Is Lamivudine Taken? What Are the Side Effects? How Does Lamivudine React With Other Drugs? What Is Lamivudine? Lamivudine (Epivir) is a drug used as... Read more »
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Nyack News
The Ellenberger Stories: Featuring ATS 50th Anniversary Banquet Honorees
When the 50th anniversary of Alliance Theological Seminary was celebrated at The View in Piermont, NY last month, five decades of history filled the room. The gathering drew retired, former, and current faculty and staff from the Rockland and New York City ATS campuses and nationwide came to Rockland County, as did alumni and friends of the seminary. It was a time to rejoice over what God has done in and through the seminary since its inception as the Jaffray School of Missions in 1960.
The new "Barney-Shepherd Lifetime Achievement in Ministry Award" was presented to Dr. John and Mrs. Helen Ellenberger. The award, named for the seminary's first faculty, Dr. Linwood Barney and Dr. Jack Shepherd, acknowledged the servant-leadership of this distinguished couple. They are a part of a family that represents five generations of some 25 students who are alumni dating back to the days of the Missionary Training Institute through today's Nyack College.
On Wednesday, March 9 from 5:10 p.m. to 5:45 p.m. in the ATS Library at 350 North Highland Ave. in Nyack, the Ellenbergers will share stories about their service nationwide and around the world. Come and be inspired by how their God-honoring lives have touched so many others.
Recent Posts
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- Nyack College Student Research Conference Rockland Campus
- ATS Colloquium On State and Religion: The Case of Israel
- APRIL 10: Nyack College Rockland Chorale Spring Concert
- Live from New York...Nyack's School of Music at Avery Fisher Hall, Lincoln Center!
- Nyack Says Thank You to Community Sponsors
- Nyack...We're Here to Serve!
- Pianist Johnny Walsh In Concert on Nyack Rockland Campus March 31
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- 15-City Promo Tour for Nyack NYC Campus Music Prof Damien Sneed
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- Colloquium Series Features Dr. Kale Yu on "Earth in Mind"
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I tend to forgive any young person's language so long as he refrains from swearing constantly and saying 'like' repeatedly.
innit, though
Word, yo.
Reader comments are listed below. Comments are currently closed and new comments are no longer being accepted.
I tend to forgive any young person's language so long as he refrains from swearing constantly and saying 'like' repeatedly.
innit, though
Word, yo.
If you want whom to be usable, you need easy rules for when to use it, especially since people don't understand what an object is in a sentence. Proposal: substitute the noun in question with "him," "her," or "them," and if the sentence still works use whom instead of whom.
Generally, though, I only use whom when editing written English. I don't think it's worth bothering with spoken English.
Without making any generalizations, the specific conversation in this article does not appear to be an indication of brilliance. Perhaps the word "whom" should go away, along with many illogical rules that are officially in place. However, that is not relevant here. Right or wrong, the word "whom" has had diminished usage over the years. So much so, that this child (the four-year-old) was not aware the word existed. This is not the child's fault, but it is not an indicator of genius either. This is simply a matter of a child thinking a word is "made-up" because she has never heard it. The author is implying that the child is some amazing genius who analyzed the logic of grammar and concluded that the word "whom" had become obsolete. I find this notion a bit preposterous.
What a great piece! As one who tends toward the more formal -- and, fortunately, was taught how to diagram sentences -- it is refreshing to hear someone else delve into the "who" or "whom" of this world. Who wrote it? It was written by whom? Ah, yes. We need to be reminded that there are some rules for proper grammar. It helps make for order in the world. And it gives us something to talk to our children about, pointing out what is right and what is wrong in speech today ... even if the rules are too commonly forgotten. What's expedient and colloguial is not always right, no matter how often used.
Curious that this nice article on English language should contain two
language errors (surely typographical), i.e.
1. 2nd para, last sentence: "to" is missing between "going" and "be".
2. 10th para, 3rd line: "are a sign of intelligence". I think "are" should be "as".
I've seen R.L.G's comment on the use of "proper" in the 2nd para, 7th line, but I find its usage there rather esoteric and probably confusing for some readers.
Thanks for noting. Fixed.
I prefer simply to think that, in casual ("normal") speech, people use the correct word much of the time but the M in "whom" is silent. Of course, my theory is belied by the clearly pronounced "whom" where proper grammar calls for the nominative case. Sigh.
Is that the grammar theory x and y?
x - people are sh1t at grammar and can't be bothered with it.
y - people generally good at grammar and try their best.
You were in the theory y camp until the nominative case popped up.
For this pronoun, the nominative case is "who." The objective case (a/k/a accusative case) is "whom." Last I looked, a sentence's subject belongs in the nominative case. Your mileage may vary.
Haha, gotta love the humor of a typo in an article about correct use of grammar!
"Their status at the top of the social heap is an incentive to treat the proper use of whom are[sic] a sign of intelligence, not just the Formal register."
I see value in something like the distinction between "who" and "whom" because this is an example in grammar where knowing the Formal makes the language user think and speak (and write) more clearly. Knowing the role of each word in relation to other words in a sentence makes language users more aware and therefore skillful and, possibly, ultimately more creative in language use. To me, it's not about the more educated wishing to preserve this distinction, but rather about language autonomy.
Other than a few fringe elements, most people accept that languages evolve in their social and time-led context. Being (yet) unaccustomed to the veneer of hypocrisy (which adults glorify as civilised behaviour), children speak their mind, extrapolating from their experience. If the child is the father of the man, adults have much to learn from their kid-parents.
Consider the following examples: 1) My son in kintergarten had been told to stand in line with other kids while wishing to pee. Angered at this insult, which he had not encountered at home, he came back and shouted: 'Padma (his teacher's name), stand in line!' 2) When my dad gave my kid brother a thrashing for inappropriate behaviour, he retorted: 'wait till I become big, when you will be a small kid!' 3) My grandson asks my his mother at the supermarket check out, 'After this, can we go the main menu?' My daughter asks: 'What is the main menu?' His answer: 'You go out and then you see all the other shops. You can go wherever you want. That is the main menu.'
Kids keep us parents and pedants occupied.
Now, if what people mostly accept about the evolving nature of languages without being fundamentalist about them (other than the odd Sanskrit, Latin or Hebrew scholars harking back to early centuries...) can be put in capsules and force-fed to ideological nuts, such as commies, anti-commies and most religions!
The question of who is elite - an adjective that conjures up all sorts of negative connotations - and who is plebian is largely a political one. I would prefer to teach my kids both the "formal" form and the "normal" form, in the same breath I would explain knowing the latter but not the former makes him - sorry - a less polished user of the language.
Perhaps there is a bilingualism of sorts even within the same language. That is what an educated person should know, whichever version he/she opts for as tailored to the circumstance.
Great post. Really enjoyed it.
In linguistics, these are called registers.
Linguists surely come up with more words to add to the subject of what they study. And then they complain about other disciplines that are obliged to do the same with their subject matter.
IMHO, whoever who speaks the plainest is the winner, as it is the hardest to do.
But thanks, Teach. Always nice to learn. Always dumb not to.
Missed Edit button. Please strike the "who" between "whoever" and "speaks".
Also, I chose the "modern version" in writing "speaks the plainest". Of course the more correct form is "speaks the most plainly."
I looked up "register" in Wiki, and discovered an area of knowledge I was hitherto (sorry) ignorant of. Thank you so much again! I feel like stepping on a wad of money bills on the sidewalk and now claim finder keeper. Happy! :)
"The question of who is elite - an adjective that conjures up all sorts of negative connotations..."
You are right that in certain peculiar minds the word "elite" is, indeed, taken to be a pejorative. This comes up frequently in modern politics where "elite" is thrown around almost as a swear word.
The question is, "Why is this so?"
"Elite" means, according to various dictionaries, "The best or most skilled members of a group", "a group of people considered to be superior", "the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons" and so on.
I, and I would expect most people, would like my doctor, my lawyer, my airline pilot, members of the government and the armed forces of my country, anyone who can affect my welfare, to be the elite, the crème de la crème and would, given the choice, reject anything less.
It is utterly baffling that this word could be taken as anything other than a compliment describing a very desirable attribute.
to N de plume on "elite"
Hear! Hear!
"It is utterly baffling..."
I know. Isn't that sad?!
... And the civilized forced to bow to the unwashed, unkempt, uneducated (subpar), all in the name of the perverse pride of a brand new breed of Internet Nazi. "Let it all hang out", they say, including the snot.
Look up reliable sources for records of doctors who are so sloppy they killed a patient or two, lawyers who botched up capital cases and sent their innocent clients to execution, airline pilots who drink on the job, members of government who think a Sikh is a Sheik, or non-pregnancy of victim is a perfect defense of rape (hence too a man cannot rape a man), or commanders in the armed forces who kill with no articulable justifications except a personal ego. Yes, a brave new Brave New World. And snots shall inherit the earth.
The truth is, no one prefers snot. If there are those, the ratio of non-preference to preference is probably 9.9 to 0.1. Ask the person who is about to eat his last dinner on the way to the chamber.
A voluntarily ignorant person who insists on the rest of the world to name ignorance a virtue is not the same one who is likely to make it anywhere, as surely as the runway model who falls because she can't walk her talk.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to rant. I feel better already. :) :)
After all my ranting, I realized you asked a Q: Why is this so?
May I offer my perspective as a student of human nature for the last several decades? Those who can't stand this student's view please do not read on. Otherwise read at your own peril.
The simple version answer is this: Envy by the have-nots.
The more complicated version is this: It is a bad feeling to not have a thing one wishes for - whether the thing is knowledge, beauty, an inborn- talent, a cultivated ability, or an innate moral goodness that the person will not surrender, or, lastly, earned wealth. (Note: Wealth acquired through nefarious means belongs to another discussion.)
Various founders of religious faiths have tackled ENVY, and attempted to provide a solution to curb it, and, failing the curbing, to prevent the full-fledged destruction ENVY works on the object of its attention. All of their teachings deal with the recall (as in recall of contaminated Tylenol) of the spurned sibling of the better angels in our shared nature.
The battle of the spurned and the unspurned continues after millennia of civilization and human development.
We all know ENVY, as one who feels it and one who bears it (the list of people I envy grows every day, surely as fastly as the list of people I don't)
But a more "evolved" person does less of the feeling it, and hence acting on it. Why? Because he has been served the sour fruit, knows its taste, and does not want to serve it to anyone else. Some super-evolved person said, once upon a time, "Do not do to others what you do not want done to yourself."
In conclusion, my perspective on envy is the haves need not be intimidated by the have-nots. Never give in to this critical mass. Like contaminated Tylenol, it will do itself in. Nothing further needs to be done except not take it.
I hope you are not sorry you asked the Q. :)
The choice of pronoun in the following sentence is problematic:
"Give the package to whoever/whomever comes to the door."
The pronoun is the object of the main clause, but it's the subject of the subordinate clause. So there's a fair argument for both "who" and "whom."
When such conflicts exist, I've been taught to use the agreement in the subordinate clause. So the "correct" answer would be, "Give the package to whoever comes to the door".
There is no conflict here. It is "who." (Your final conclusion is correct.) The pronoun is NOT the object of the main clause. The object of the main clause is the entire phrase "whoever comes to the door," and it is not even feasible that this phrase would use the word "whom" just because the entire phrase is used as an object. On the other hand, this whole issue will go away if the word "whom" is dropped from the language. :P
Nope. If the main clause were to stand alone, the pronoun would have to be in the objective case ("whomever") because it is the object of the preposition "to." But in the subordinate clause, the pronoun is the subject, and would have to be in the nominative case ("whoever"). There is a conflict. It is resolved by applying the rule of thumb that the agreement in the subordinate clause is "correct."
no, hzalk510's right. the sentence is an imperative sentence. there's an assumed "you" before the beginning of the sentence.
therefore, it really is:
You, give the package to whoever/whomever comes to the door.
this makes the "you," the subject.
btw, to the OP, great example.
It's 'whomever', because it is both the object of the preposition 'to', and the indirect object of the verb 'to give'.
Give the sentence the he/him-who/whom test. "[You], give the package (direct object) to he/him." Which sounds correct to you?
The pronoun in your example is "whoever/whomever." The pronoun "whoever" is used in the subjective case; the pronoun "whomever" is used in the objective case.
When the pronoun is the subject of a sentence, the complement of a "being" verb like "am," "is," "are," "was," "were," "be" or "been," or after the infinitive "to be" when the verb doesn't have a subject noun or subject pronoun directly preceding it, e subjective case is used.
When the pronoun is the direct or indirect object of a verb, the object of a proposition, the subject of any infinitive, the object of the infinitive "to be" when it has a subject, or the subject of any other infinitive, the objective case is used.
Essentially, the pronoun in your example is the object of the proposition "to," so, in short, if your example sentence is "Give … to [him]," in the objective case, not "give to [he]," in the subjective case, so "Give the package to whomever comes to the door" would be correct.
You assert the following:
"When the pronoun is the direct or indirect object of a verb, the object of a proposition, the subject of any infinitive, the object of the infinitive 'to be' when it has a subject, or the subject of any other infinitive, the objective case is used."
In my 62 years, I have never read or heard the above "rule," nor have I seen it used in practice. The correct formulation is:
1. When a pronoun is the subject of a sentence or clause, the nominative case (what you are calling the "subjective") is used.
2. When a pronoun is the direct object, the indirect object, or the object of a preposition, the objective case is used.
But a conflict exists when a given occurrence of the pronoun is the subject of the main clause and an object in the subordinate clause, or vice versa. Consider the following examples:
a. Give it to (whoever/whomever) you like best.
b. Give it to (whoever/whomever) pays the highest price.
Your rule provides no guidance in resolving this conflict. The rule of thumb that I was taught is:
When there is a conflict (nominative vs. objective), use the case that is used in the the subordinate clause, not the case that is used in the main clause.
So for our examples, the correct usage is:
a. Give it to whomever you like best. (You like him best.)
b. Give it to whoever pays the highest price. (He pays the highest price.)
The pronoun {used} in your example is "whoever/whomever." The pronoun "whoever" is used in the subjective case; the pronoun "whomever" is used in the objective case.
When the pronoun is the subject of a sentence, the complement of a "being" verb like "am," "is," "are," "was," "were," "be" or "been," or after the infinitive "to be" when the verb doesn't have a subject noun or {a} subject pronoun directly preceding it, {the} subjective case is used.
When the pronoun is the direct or indirect object of a verb, the object of a {preposition}, the subject of any infinitive, the object of the infinitive "to be" when it has a subject, or the {object} of any other infinitive, the objective case is used.
Essentially, the pronoun in your example {sentence} is the object of the {preposition} "to," so, in short, if your example sentence {were} "Give ... to [him]" in the objective case, {then "Give the package to whomever comes to the door" would be correct, but your example sentence is} "give to [he]" in the subjective case, so "Give the package to whoever comes to the door" would be correct.
The above is essentially what I posted on 10/15/2012. At least twice I wrote" proposition" instead of "preposition," which typos, along with others, are indicated by french braces. I posted the comment so as not to lose it (since it was such a lengthy one and I thought I might have to shorten it) only to discover no way to edit my comment, and, as was pointed out in his comment, leaving the wrong conclusion in my comment. Is there really no way to edit one's own posted comments?
My comment was in response to the OP's question as to which pronoun is correct -- "whoever" or "whomever" -- in the "example sentence," and so instead of ending my comment with "... so 'Give the package to whoever comes to the door' would be correct," I had intended to write:
"... so I would opine as follows:
"'Give the package to whoever comes to the door.'
"'Give the package to whomever comes to the door.'"
Turning now to your reply to my comment, you wrote the following:
"1. When a pronoun is the subject of a sentence or clause, the nominative case (what you are calling the 'subjective') is used.
"2. When a pronoun is the direct object, the indirect object, or the object of a preposition, the objective case is used."
I stand by what I said in my comment regarding the nominative (subjective) case and the objective case. As far as the two additional example sentences "a" and "b" you provided --
"a. Give it to whomever you like best....
"b. Give it to whoever pays the highest price...."
-- I agree. In both example sentences, the clause is the direct object of the preposition "to." In "a," the pronoun "whomever" would be correct because within its clause "whomever" is the object of the verb "like," while in "b," the pronoun "whoever" would be correct because within its clause "whoever" is the subject of the verb "pays." Returning now to the OP's example sentence:
"Give the package to whoever comes to the door."
Here, the clause "whoever comes to the door" is the direct object of the preposition "to." However, the pronoun "whoever" would be correct because within its clause "whoever" is the subject of the verb "comes."
This is great ! It is from discussions like this that I catch the nuance and differences in English--and improve my speaking and writing.
I will find a situation or somewhere to use "whom" (which often shows up in your Shakespeare's writing). I confess I thought it was a form of *English slang.*
Back in the mid fifties I used to be regularly chided in Northern England, sometimes by learned friends, who said I was a bit of a toff by using whom.
I never gave up, though.
If "whom" is dying, then it is taking longer to do so than the heroine in a 19th century opera.
Here's an old Language Log posting on The coming death of whom.
Frequently, I correct myself in this scenario:
Cashier: "Would you like that in a bag?"
Self: "No, I'll just take it loose...ly."
No. Here 'loose' is an adjective, referring to the things you've bought. You're taking them home in a loose state. If you took them home 'loosely' you might hold them loosely and drop them on the way, or deliver them a few streets away from your home because that is, loosely, where you live. So your first instinct is right. In my experience, that is usually the case.
Call it declining standards, laziness, ignorance, or whatever other pejorative phrase you prefer, but language will keep changing, largely along predictable (if inconsistent) lines. "Whom" is no more bizzare and inexplicable a usage than is "him". It's disappearance is, as Pinker has pointed out, due to the same phenomenon in which other irregular constructs disappear as their frequency declines and more common irregular usages persist--and are eventually learned by otherwise logical, rule-obedient children. We forget the weird stuff if we don't hear or see it often enough, or rather, we forget that we thought it was normal and suddenly notice how weird it sounds.
Fair enough, the increasing use of 'their' as in 'Each of us should do their homework' is probably driven by sexual politics. I still think it's a good thing, if only accidentally. I like language to be accurate. Traditional English has pushed us into usage that is inaccurately gendered. We'd only say 'Each of us should do their homework' if some of us are male and some female. Otherwise we'd use either 'his' or 'her'. Why say 'Each of us should do his homework' in this case, knowing it's inaccurate? I'd rather say 'The person who delivers may ring the doorbell; that will be because they need a signature', than replace 'they' with 'he' when I don't know the gender of the person.
'My friend', as in 'My friend left their phone home', seems to be deliberately avoiding making the gender of the friend clear. So it is appropriate to avoid gender in the pronoun. The only thing I don't like is the omission of 'at'; I'd say 'My friend left their phone at home.'
Which brings me to something much worse than failing to use 'whom.' 'Working from home' should be 'working at home'. 'From home' has always meant 'not at home.'
Feel free to point out any errors in grammar, punctuation and so on in this post. I'm always happy to learn.
Sorry to pick a nit, but I think the delivery scenario throws things off track a bit. In that case, "they" seemed to me when I first read your example to refer to "the delivery service," a company, the postal service, or some such. We often - at least in the United States - make that switch in mid thought/sentence. "I talked to my son's teacher. It seems they want him to join the debate club," is another example. We know the teacher is either a he or she (irrelevant to the story) and not a "they." So we easily assume the "they" represents some collective entity, that might be described as "the powers that be," or "interested parties."
If you expect or appreciate language to be accurate I'm afraid you are destined for disappointment. Just think how we all assumed we knew the meaning of "is" not too long ago.
Please pick as many nits as you like (says hS7tij5Kze). Your comment is informative.
By the way, how do I post with a name of my choosing, instead of some jumble like hS7tij5Kze? I don't want to 'Share on Facebook, Twitter or LinkedIn.'
Gosh, I don't know. When I registered, I chose my ID name. Maybe re-register and choose a new name? Or go to your "profile."
I think you're missing a subtlety. If I'm at home when I phone you, shouldn't I say, "I'm calling from home" (rather than "I'm calling at home")?
Very droll.
Dear Robert D NYC
I've changed it now. Thank you for taking the trouble to advise me.
I wonder if you could use your meaning in a sentence.
You know your stuff. I like your discussion of whomever/whoever. But is 'calling' the same as 'working.' A call is to someone; it is from somewhere and someone to somewhere/someone else. Working isn't like that. Shouldn't I say 'I am cooking at home', not 'I am cooking from home?'
If 'working from home' is correct, is 'working at home' also correct?
I'm ready to bow to your superior wisdom and shoo this particular bee from my bonnet.
I meant that I found your comment witty and amusing. So my sentence is:
Your reply is very droll.
The OED gives this example: 'the droll inventions of Hogarth.'
I've always praised wit with the expression 'very droll'. If the habit of a lifetime has been in error, please let me know.
I certainly didn't mean to cause offence; I intended to be appreciative.
I took no offense and didn't mean to come across as aggressive in the least. As you know there are various ways it can be used and I was hoping for a positive spin. Thank you.
I don't have an objection to the phrase "working from home," as it seems to be a construction of the telecommuter age and so shares an affinity with "calling from home." The phrase seems to imply a remote connection to the work being done in the office, rather than just working being performed in one's own home. If you were painting your bathroom instead of answering email messages, you could say "I'm working at home." Or if you maintain a home office which is the only place you ever work (especially if you are self-employed and aren't telecommuting), you could say "I work at home." Maybe it's a silly distinction, but I get it.
Thank you. The bee in my bonnet has buzzed off.
Nigel, your point is well-taken, and your "cooking" example is apt.
I believe that "working from home" is an extension of "calling from home" in the following sense. When I am physically at the workplace, my work output--e.g., reports, emails, tweets, posts, phone calls, etc.--emanate from my office. So if I'm sending an email from my dining room table, I tell my colleagues that I'm working _from_ home. But if I'm vacuuming the rug, I am merely working _at_ home--and not generating work output for my colleagues.
the following are not correct:
"Each of us should do his homework."
"My friend left their phone home."
you cannot mix singular and plural pronouns.
as for the first sentence, why not reformat the statements by using fewer words and write something clearer?
"We should do our homework."
now with the second sentence, you should know your friend's gender. why do you have an issue identifying your friend's gender? the "gender pronoun" issue comes about when the author does not know the gender of the subject of object.
English grammar has some very obscure, confusing, and often stupid rules (Majestic Pronoun), so why not write in plain language so you do not have to deal with the very obscure, confusing, and often stupid rules?
finally, why not say the following instead?
"The delivery person may ring the doorbell to get a signature."
the fewer words you can use to convey your ideas, the better.
I am utterly in support of the retention of proper, formal grammatical construction. Language is too complex to allow its structure to degrade to the standard of the colloquial.
Who/whom really isn't difficult - who is used as a pronoun for the subject, while whom is for the object; and, in English, subject/object are critical especially when we, philosophically, are so overly concerned with cause/effect that we can't even say "raining" or "is raining" without adding the phantom "it" (the sky? the clouds? the air?) as an expression of our demand that *something* must be doing the action of raining.
This is likely why we also prefer "active" vs. "passive" voice; it's awkward to focus on what happened to the object vs. what was done to the object by the subject; it's the subject that did something, while the object was affected by that action.
Subject/object; cause/effect; active/passive. As wacky as English vocabulary is, the structure is generally consistent and should be understood.
In one of your examples I would have used "whom".
• Memorable rule: 'whom' is to 'who' as 'him' is to 'he'.
Let make a series of sentences.
◊ I've started to become friends with him.
◊ I've started to become friends with whom?
◊ He is the colleague with whom I've started to become friends. (Also avoiding the awkward prepositional ending.)
◊ She's the colleague with whom I've started to become friends.
◊ She's the colleague whom I've started to become friends with.
It would be neater to keep the preposition next to the pronoun ("with whom"), but, whatever the order, it needs 'whom'.
If this is wrong, please instruct.
So is the message here that adults need no more sophistication in their use of language than a four-year old child?
Our correspondents consider the use and abuse of languages around the world, in a blog named after the dictionary-maker Samuel Johnson
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text:
- Human Evolution Research
- Climate and Human Evolution
- Anthropocene: The Age of Humans
- Asian Research Projects
- East African Research Projects
- Human Origins Program Team
- What's Hot In Human Origins?
- Fossil Forensics: Interactive
- E. A. Mammal Dentition Database
- Human Evolution Evidence
- Behavior
- 3D Collection
- Human Fossils
- Human Family Tree
- Genetics
- Dating
- Timeline Interactive
- Human Characteristics
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- Exhibit
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- Multimedia
Walking upright on shorter legs
This 4.1 million year old upper tibia (shin bone) fossil, KNM-KP 29285, comes from Australopithecus anamensis, an early human species that lived near open areas and dense woods. Their bodies had evolved in ways that enabled them to walk upright most of the time while still being able to climb trees. As a result, they could take advantage of both habitats. The top part of the tibia (where the lower leg meets the knee) is concave, or depressed from stress. This shows that the individual often put weight on the bone—evidence of standing upright. The lower part of the tibia (where the lower leg meets the ankle) is wider or thicker—evidence that it acted as a type of shock absorber as this individual walked .
Exhibit item
Site:Kanapoi, Kenya
Date of discovery:1994
Discovered by:Kamoya Kimeu
Age:About 4.1 million years old
<bold>Strong knee</bold> Every time you take a step, you briefly stand on one leg—putting stress on your leg bones. The wide area of bone just below this early human's knee joint is a result of that stress. It provides strong evidence that this individual walked upright.


text:
Why is "Idols" not a genre? Or at least "Music" :-P So favorite genres, in order: 1 Sci Fi, 2 Music, 3 Magical Girl.
1.1: Time travel; 1.2: Space colonization; 1.3: Super powers
2.1: Idols; 2.2: Bands
1,643 total episodes
Hello and welcome to A-P! Hope you enjoy your time here! ^_^
If you liked or , you'd like the other because...


text:
Medford Parking Meters Go Live 1/15/15
The City of Medford has launched a city-wide parking program, placing parking payment kiosks in various areas around the city. » read
Improvements to Parking Facilities and Rate Changes for FY2015
Smart meters, the Transportation Working Group, and school year 2014-2015 parking rates. » read
Smart Meters
Smart meters are intelligent, self-contained computers that after installation at parking facility entrances and exits are designed to recognize when a vehicle enters a parking facility and if the vehicle has a valid parking permit or day pass assigned to it.
» read
Tufts Shuttles for Spring Semester.
The Tufts Davis Square Shuttle, SMFA/NEC Shuttle and Boston Ave. Shuttle begin running according to schedule Saturday January 10.... » read
Purchase your Parking Permit Online
The Online Parking Permit Purchase portal will be unavailable on 9/16/14 from 9am-11am while we upgrade our system. ---- Year or Semester long Parking Permits as well as One to Three Day Visitor / Guest passes are available today. » read
Shuttle and Medford Admin Svcs
Administrative Services
- Parking Services
- Shuttle Services
- Photo ID cards
- Access Systems
- Key requests (except residence facilities)
- Lock change requests (except residence facilities)
- Card access requests


text:
Sestak wants fiscal 'bunny slope'
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Huckabee: MSNBC-Obama 'love fest' shatters network's objectivity 'illusion'
The "love fest" between President Barack Obama and MSNBC hosts yesterday at the White House completely shatters the "illusion" of the network's objectivity, Mike Huckabee told his radio listeners on Wednesday.
Costas: We need 'more comprehensive gun control legislation'
NBC's Bob Costas said tonight he believes the United States needs more comprehensive gun control legislation, even as he sought to clarify his earlier remarks about gun control and rebut critics who said he was advocating against the second amendment.
DNC chair: Hillary 'pressed' to serve
She's anticipating Clinton's return to public service.
Chris Matthews on the GOP civil war
MSNBC's Chris Matthews ran a very informative segment about the GOP Civil War
Axelrod: Obama heard Matthews' criticism
MSNBC host ranted about Obama's first debate.
Welch: 'I should have put a question mark' on tweet
Welch refused to back down, but acknowledged he should have added a question mark to his tweet.
MSNBC breaks record off convention bump
Fresh off the wire from MSNBC...
Mitchell: 'Not good enough'? Exactly
Obama's remark about the jobs report doesn't make for a very good bumper sticker, she says.
MSNBC avoids the Jerusalem issue
One widely discussed development in tonight's Democratic convention coverage is the party's decision -- indeed, Obama's decision -- to include "God" in its platform and affirm Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
Matthews crashes MSNBC daytime, again
He pushes Andrea Mitchell to say his opinions on GOP voter suppression efforts are factual.
O'Donnell: Mitt, Ann likely let loose
She says the GOP nominee joining his wife onstage was one of her favorite moments so far.
Steele: Palin's absence a 'mistake'
"I think she brings a level of energy and excitement that's going to be important going forward," he says.
Chris Matthews's 5 best rants
After his shout-fest with Priebus, POLITICO has put together a list of his top rants this past year:
Blog fury over Touré racial comment
"Touré's comments are beyond offensive," one says.
Answer this: Chris Hayes
The host of the MSNBC's "Up with Chris Hayes" joined POLITICO for our latest interview series.
Brown to debate if MSNBC drops out
Sen. Scott Brown announced today that he will accept an invitation to debate Elizabeth Warren at the Edward M. Kennedy Institute in Boston, but only on two conditions — one of which is that MSNBC, which is scheduled to host the debate, must drop out as a sponsor.
DSCC head doesn't name-check Maine Democratic nominee
Via Luke Russert on MSNBC, DSCC head Patty Murray declined to name-check the party's newly minted Maine Senate nominee Cynthia Dill this morning.
Jesse Ventura body-slams the media
The former Minnesota governor promotes his new book, "DemoCRIPS and ReBLOODicans."
Alex Wagner breaks the old mold
MSNBC's "Now With Alex Wagner" is a sharp departure from the traditional daytime cable news.


text:
Posted by anonymous on Sunday, May 11, 2014 at 10:43pm.
What is your question?
Review what you know about American foreign policy between 1890–1920 and the debate over imperialism. You will need to know the following information in order to complete your dialogue:
the countries that the United States occupied or acquired
the reasons some Americans supported imperialism
the reasons other Americans opposed imperialism
Choose two people with opposing views on America's role in the world during the period between 1890–1920. The following are some possible people to choose from:
Jane Addams
Eugene Debs
Samuel Gompers
Jeanette Rankin
Mark Twain
Booker T. Washington
Ida B. Wells
Queen Liliuokalani
Emilio Aguinaldo
Minor C. Keith
Alfred Thayer Mahan
William McKinley
Theodore Roosevelt
Josiah Strong
Woodrow Wilson
Research both sides of the issue. You will need to find all of the following information to complete your dialogue:
• What are the basic facts that both sides can agree on?
• What did each person believe about imperialism?
• How did they work in support of or in opposition to imperialism?
• Were there any key events in their lives that affected their beliefs about imperialism?
Before you write your dialogue, reflect on the information you learned while researching your issue. Write down your thoughts to the questions below; you will need the answers to complete your dialogue.
• What is each person's opinion on the issue?
• What facts or reasoning back up their opinion?
• What would person A say about person B's opinion and vice versa?
Porject:Now write your dialogue between two people on different sides of the issue. Make sure to address the following issues in your final product:
Begin out your dialogue with each person stating his or her opinion on the issue. This opinion should be about one paragraph long.
Spend the rest of the conversation with the two people responding to each other about their opinions.
Use the following format to write your dialogue.
Person 1: I believe that . . .
Person 2: Nonsense. Your . . .
Person 1: That is not true. I .. .
You may wish to have the people ask one another questions.
Focus the dialogue on the specific issues. Although your people may criticize or challenge each other's beliefs, the conversation should not become a name-calling session. Have each person comment on the other person's opinions.
Your dialogue should be based on both historical fact and imaginative details derived from historical fact.
Your dialogue should be at least three pages long, single spaced, and typed in 12-point font.
Answer this Question
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text:
Alpha Hydrox AHA Souffle 12 percent Glycolic AHA
523 reviews
77% would repurchase
Package Quality: 3.3
Price: $$
Package Quality: 3.3
Price: $$
INGREDIENTSWater, Glycolic Acid, Ammonium Hydroxide, Cetyl Alcohol, Propylene Glycol, Dicaprylyl Carbonate, Stearic Acid, PEG 40 Stearate, C12 15 Alkyl Benzoate, Polysorbate 60, Steareth 2, Hydrolyzed Lupine Protein (Peptides), Green Tea Extract, Panthenol (Vitamin B5), Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E), Xanthan Gum, PVM/MA Decadene Crosspolymer, Imidazolidinyl Urea, BHT
on 11/23/2011 11:35:00 AM
Age: 36-43
Skin: Dry, Fair, Not Sure
Hair: Brunette, Other, Other
Eyes: Hazel
I have used this souffle in conjunction with Alpha Hydrox Foaming Face wash and their Sheer Silk Moisturizer for the last 3 weeks.
Note: I have melasma (pregnancy and birth control mask) which causes brown spotted areas on my face. I also have milia (hard white spots under the skin), and some small skin tags on face and neck.
I have seen a reduction in the melasma -- I now have lighter, brighter skin than I've seen in 5 years. Some milia are coming out of my skin now, and the skin tags are getting smaller, and a few have come off already.
This product is excellent! It does wonders for all the little problematic things that pregnancy and getting older can cause. It's amazing -- this product actually works and fixes my face and neck, and it's really reasonably priced! Wonderful, I love it.
on 11/19/2011 8:13:00 AM
Age: 44-55
Skin: Normal, Medium, Not Sure
Hair: Brunette, Other, Other
Eyes: Green
Just a little tip...I have used the Alpha Hydroxy 12% foot creme on my face for the last 15 years plus. I have gotten numerous comments about how young my skin looks. The tube is more portable and it is cheaper than the soufle! Just got my three daughters started on it. I have not found anything on the market that compares regardless of price. Just wish it was carried by more venders. I used to purchase this at the big 3 drugstores, but have not been able to find it for the last five years. I order online now, which is fine, but I would still like other options to buy off the shelf.
on 9/10/2011 1:59:00 PM
Age: 25-29
Skin: Acne-prone, Dark, Not Sure
Hair: Brown, Other, Other
Eyes: Brown
Love it... It makes my face super soft and helps even out skin tone (glycolic acid in general at a high percentage works wonders). I don't care for the packaging.. the glass container is terrible. I wish it came in a pump bottle.. I just dip a q-tip in it, put the product in my palm and smooth over. DO NOT USE TOO MUCH at one time or your face will feel heavy, especially during the day and during summer months. Make sure to use a bit and use a sunscreen afterward and you are good to go.. Good under makeup as well!!!
on 9/1/2011 2:58:00 AM
Age: 19-24
Skin: Very Oily, Medium, Not Sure
Hair: Black, Other, Other
Eyes: Brown
I bought it b/c i read fantastic reviews on drugstore.com and people claimed that it made fine lines disappear and pores smaller and whatnot so, i bought one hoping it would get rid of my laugh lines (19 but i laugh way too much) and my HUGE pores on my nose.
It did nothing for me. I put it on every night for a month and I didnt feel any tingling or stinging or any sign that it was working.
I paid probably 18 bucks (shipping fees..gosh) in total for a moisturizer. what a waste.
on 8/10/2011 10:41:00 AM
Age: 25-29
Skin: Combination, Fair-Medium, Not Sure
Hair: Blond, Straight, Fine
Eyes: Blue
at first i liked the product but it built up on my skin and caused mega clogged pores. i like Alpha Hydrox products but this one won't be staying in my routine.
on 8/5/2011 5:10:00 PM
Age: 30-35
Skin: Combination, Fair, Not Sure
Hair: Brown, Straight, Medium
Eyes: Blue
I switched to this from the 10% gel. So happy with it! It absorbs into skin, layers great, can use day or night. I like it a lot better than the gel because of the absorption and that I always feel it is doing something. Makes skin smooth and helps keep it clear. It lasts awhile too. I originally didn't go for it because there were better deals volume-wise with other AH products. It turns out, this is worth the extra $$ to me. Has never caused me any breakouts.
EDIT: December 2014: I stopped using souffle in favor of the serum & swipes which I found less irritating for whatever reason. Recently I had to stop using Alpha-Hydrox products altogether after I developed a sensitivity. I used these products for about three years, realizing earlier this year that the small acne bumps all over my face were actually being caused by this regimen. I purchased all my AH products direct from the company during their great sales (you should get on their mailing list if you like them!). It is possible that my AH products (since I bought several at a time) were a little old and that might be related to the sensitivity thing. In any case, I find that over time, most products stop being effective for me. I am not too disappointed, this regimen became a but harsh on my skin.
on 7/1/2011 8:57:00 AM
Age: 19-24
Skin: Acne-prone, Fair, Not Sure
Hair: Brown, Other, Other
Eyes: Hazel
Love love love this product! Have only been using it for about a week, and so far my skin feels and looks much more smoother, and softer, pores look much cleaner and smaller, and my skin just looks brighter and glowy!
For my skin it does sting/itch a bit when i first put it on but that goes away after 5 mins,
Atm my skincare regime is proactiv 3 step, aha souffle and spot lightener every morning and night, though only aha at night time, and i have not experienced any irritation or redness.
My skin just feels amazing, will continue to use this product!
on 5/22/2011 10:37:00 PM
Age: 30-35
Skin: Other, Dark, Not Sure
Hair: Brown, Other, Other
Eyes: Black
Makes my skin smooth, doesn't break me out and helps heal my pimples. Great product, great price. Packaging needs work though.
on 5/19/2011 4:26:00 PM
Age: 19-24
Skin: Other, Other, Not Sure
Hair: Other, Other, Other
Eyes: Other
Alpha Hydrox - AHA Souffle 12% Glycolic AHA
For the first 2 weeks, when I applied it, it caused my skin to be so sensitive until it turned red, and minor purging. Ive read on makeupalley that it does cause breakouts initially, so I hanged in there and continued to apply the cream religiously. It does sting a lot until I couldnt sleep, so instead of twice a day, i applied once every 2 days. For the first two weeks, my face was really really red, but it did smoothen out my skin.
After the first 2 weeks, the redness simmered down, and acne no longer pop out. The only thing was the my skin was still pink because of my acne scars and sun burn. One thing to note about this product that it causes your skin to get sun burn really easily, so please remember to top it up with something spf. I didnt have sunscreen or moisturizer on, and I rarely did put on makeup. As I continued to applied it religiously (2 times daily), it shrinked my large pores on my forehead but also cause it to become really really really dry. My skin peeled pretty badly. I started looking for an alternative moisturizer and I got the Alpha Hydroxy Sheer Silk Moisturizer which has the SPF in it, but all in all, it is not very moisturizing and it still caused a lot of peeling (I have really really oily skin). My recommendation of this moisturizer is that it works in Singapores weather where it is humid and hot, but not in SF bay areas weather where it was cooling and less humid.
My routine for the time I was using this cream was just, a light cleanser (by my dermatologist), this cream, and sometimes the moisturizer.
All in all, this cream helped me with my pimples when I was in california where the atmosphere was less humid than in Singapore. This cream does not work for me when I moved back to Singapore, because I sweat way too much here in Singapore (what worked will be for the next review).
Other places you could get this are: amazon.com, ebay.com, alphahydrox.com site for about $15.
Pro: Affordable, clears up acne, smoothen skin, shrinks pores.
Cons: Sensitive to sunlight, stinging sensation, cause skin to dry up.
More here: http://nicxmu.tumblr.com/
on 5/9/2011 10:49:00 PM
Age: 36-43
Skin: Combination, Fair-Medium, Not Sure
Hair: Brown, Other, Other
Eyes: Blue
I have been using this product for 2 months, morning and night, and I can verify that there has been a definite improvement in the tone, texture and softness of my skin. And wow, is it soft! My pores are SO much less noticeable and the oily patches in my T-zone are virtually oil free now. I thought i'd have oily skin forever! Thanks to my genetics and heritage my skin was becoming muddy with deep pores and uneven looking, even while using an spf 60 daily for 15 years. Now, my skin looks more like it did ten years ago, lighter, brighter and glowy. The fine lines appearing under my eyes are not gone, but are much softer now. My skin just looks more elastic. The proof came when I examined two photos taken two weeks apart in my girlfriend's kitchen and my skin colour in the second photo is dramatically lighter and brighter than the first photo. Customers at work in the last two weeks comment that I don't look my age at all! I really didn't know what to expect, but now, I don't want to be without this product. My skin did purge the first two weeks for sure, but now, it's behaving beautifully. I don't find it irritating at all. I recommend Alpha Hydrox unreservedly. It's not a miracle, but wow, does it ever refresh my skin.
**extra note: also, if I do break out (once per month, hormones, bah!) the redness and scarring take WAY less time to heal since I started using Alpha Hydrox. Whew! Love that!**
Popular Treatments (Face)