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> CWLA Comment on Earned Income Tax Credit and Kinship Families
CWLA Comments to the IRS and Treasury Department on the Earned Income Tax Credit and Kinship Families
© Child Welfare League of America. The content of these publications may not be reproduced in any way, including posting on the Internet, without the permission of CWLA. For permission to use material from CWLA's website or publications, contact us using our website assistance form.
Pursuant to a request for comments on proposed changes in the application procedures for the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), CWLA submitted the following to the Internal Revenue Service and Treasury Department.
July 14, 2003
CC:PA:RU (Announcement 2003-40)
Internal Revenue Service
1111 Constitution Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20044
To: Internal Revenue Service and Treasury Department
The Child Welfare League of America (CWLA) submits the following comments on major changes the Internal Revenue Service has proposed, beginning this year, in the application procedures for the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC). Certain EITC claimants raising a child would be required to "pre-certify" their eligibility by proving that the child lived with them for more than half of the year.
CWLA represents over 1,100 public and private nonprofit, child-serving member agencies across the country. Many of our members deal with the families that will be most effected by proposed IRS action. The new procedures, which would be phased in over several years, target all grandparents, uncles, aunts, and other relatives raising children who are their grandchildren, nephews, nieces, and other related children. These are the very families who represent "kinship" families in the child welfare field. In some instances, these kinship relationships are "voluntary" or arrangements that do not require formal court proceedings. Kinship care has been a growing and important option in the nation's child welfare system. According to the 2000 census, 2.4 million grandparents are taking on primary responsibility for their grandchildren's basic needs. More than six million children-approximately 1 in 12-are living in households headed by these grandparents or other relatives.
Many of these kinship families struggle economically and these are the very families your new requirements will target. These families need more support but as a result of this pre-certification, many will not apply for the EITC and will end up paying a higher income tax. According to a recent study by the Urban Institute, 31% of children in voluntary kinship care and 43% in private kinship care live in families with incomes less than the federal poverty level. All of these families, and many more families in the child welfare system, could have the Earned Income Tax Credit, a critical economic support, denied to them. We view this as harmful to a child population that needs help.
In light of this overarching concern we offer the following comments and criticisms of the IRS's proposed EITC "pre-certification."
Comment 1: Chilling Effect
We feel that the required certification could have a "chilling effect" on the families required to submit information. Realistically, these are families that have little contact with the IRS with the exception of April 15, of every year when they are required to submit their annual tax statement. To receive an IRS instruction in late summer or early fall may be quite disconcerting to the family in question playing on a potential fear of the Internal Revenue Service. If these families have access to a tax professional it is only through a local voluntary social service agency or a part-year business that provides tax advice and is open only during the first four months of each tax year. At the point you send these instructions out these families will have no where to turn for advice. The end result is they may decide not to risk what they view as a confrontation with the IRS and not apply for an EITC benefit they are eligible for and need.
Comment 2: Documentation
The IRS Form 8836 requires records from various parties that would show not just the address of said child but would also require that these records, from social service agencies, child care providers, leases, etc., provide dates the child lived with the applying adult. Many of these documents don't record time periods and such documents may only indicate residence of the child at the time a service or contact was made with the child and not a time period of when a child lived at a specific address.
Comment 3: Third Party Affidavit
The IRS specifically limits those who can offer proof of the qualifying child's residency to approximately eight individuals who would not be present in the child's home. A landlord may not even be present at or ever visit the residence of the applying family. The same is true of an employer, health care provider, member of the clergy, child care provider, or social service casework. In addition, any of these qualifying individuals will have to sign a statement under penalty of perjury. The reality is that you are asking people to swear that they know for a fact the time periods a child has lived at a residence in question. Even the most trusting of relationships between a caseworker or member of the clergy and the family in question could be tested under these requirements. As a result, there may be reluctance on the part of these third party witnesses to sign any statement on someone else's tax form. The "Proof of Residency" also limits who can offer proof of a child's residency. The most knowledgeable individual of a child's status in these families will likely be a neighbor or relative, yet they are not listed as potential "third party" affidavit signers.
Comment 4: Implementation
The IRS has indicated that it will test out this new process this summer on approximately 45,000 families and then will proceed with a much greater expansion next summer. This timetable is unrealistic and unscientific. The IRS will have to implement this test in the next few summer weeks, study the results, carrying out the normal IRS duties required at the end of the year and the first half of next year and also carefully study and implement the 2003 results through a much larger "pre-certification" by next summer. These timetables are unrealistic. We are concerned the full impact will not be known and many more families will be denied an EITC next year, despite the fact that they qualify and need the support.
Comment 5: Pre-Certification
The IRS has determined that there is an abuse of the EITC. This is not the only section of the tax code that is subject to abuse, yet the IRS has singled the EITC out for a new tax-filing requirement. This new requirement targets a specific group of low-income tax payers to qualify for a tax deduction-credit before the tax-filing period.
We would urge the IRS to use this time period to more carefully examine how great the abuse of the EITC is at this point. Some organizations have disputed or questioned the conclusions of previous studies on this matter. It is important that the IRS first determine the extent of abuse, determine how many families qualified for the EITC but do not receive it, and, based on this information, address both problems fairly and at the same time.
CWLA stands ready to assist the IRS in any outreach efforts that will help EITC-eligible families.
Shay Bilchik
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University of Vermont
Department of Biology
The Department of Biology is committed to the active pursuit of scientific knowledge through integrative, cutting-edge research in neuroscience, cell biology, ecology, and evolution. Faculty in the Department are all active researchers, funded by major grants from the NSF, NIH, and other agencies, publish in the best journals, and enjoy international reputations. Our faculty bring this deep scholarship and productive research efforts into the undergraduate classroom. Our faculty are award-winning teachers, providing courses from the introductory to advanced level that engage and challenge students and promote critical thinking skills. Click HERE to see what our Alums are doing with their degrees.
Research News
- Dr. William Kilpatrick is the 2013 recipient of the Hartley H. T. Jackson Award for service to ASM (The American Society of Mammalogists). Read More
- Dr. William Kilpatrick's research on fluctuation in mice populations in Vermont (Burlington Free Press Article)
- Dr. Lori Steven's new study about climate change and the potential risk from Chagas Disease. (Read More) (CDC Article)
- Dr. Bryan Ballif and an International Research Team identifies two novel blood group systems (published in Nature Genetics). Read More
- Bernd Heinrich's new research on Ravens and Stress.
- The National Science Foundation awarded Dr. Bryan Ballif a grant to study signal transduction mechanisms during brain development. Read more.
- A new study by Dr. Alison Brody and colleagues in PLoS Biology explains spatial patterns in African savannah communities. See story in USA Today.
- Is competition important? The answer depends on spatial scale, Dr. Nick Gotelli and colleagues show in a new paper in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. See review in Science magazine HERE.
- Dr. Charles Goodnight weighs in on the kin-selection/group selection debate in the Feb. 18 issue of Nature (Full Story) (NSF Article)
- Dr. Judith Van Houten elected as Fellow to the American Association for the Advancement of Science for her contributions to research and education.
- Dr. Gene Delay has been awarded a grant from the National Science Foundation to study L-amino acid taste receptors. Read about Dr. Delay's research.
Learning Through Experience: Linking Research and Education
As a research-intensive department, we recognize that the best way to provide students with a comprehensive understanding of Biology is to participate directly in the research process
- Our graduate students are mentored by world-class scientists with dynamic research groups
- More than 50 undergraduate students each year work with faculty on cutting-edge scientific research
- Faculty and students regularly present research at national and international conferences and publish original research in the best international journals
Academic Programs
The Department of Biology offers MS and PhD degrees in Biology, as well as an accelerated Masters program and a Masters of Teaching degree. More than 400 Undergraduates pursue our majors in Biology (BA), Biological Science (BS), Zoology (BA and BS), and Environmental Science (BS). Undergraduates enjoy the most up-to-date courses with small class sizes to promote direct interactions between students and faculty.
Our grads are successful at finding careers in the sciences:
- A sterling reputation among medical, dental, and graduate schools
- Extensive alumni connections in private industry
- Learn more about careers in the sciences.
Last modified July 08 2014 11:54 AM


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BT today announced that it has added São Paulo to the list of cities in which it will be offering its BT Radianz Venue suite of managed network services for use both by local and international companies active in financial markets.
The addition of the Brazilian city will improve access to liquidity in the Latin America region, where over 450 institutions are already part of the BT Radianz Cloud, the world's largest secure online financial services community. It also helps market participants in the region access financial centres, counterparties and clients internationally in a cost-effective manner.
BT Radianz Venue is a cloud-based suite of new services aimed at helping market participants address the challenges created by competing execution platforms and liquidity fragmentation across multiple asset classes. It provides optimized latency interconnectivity between and within data centres and across the world's top financial centres.
Rik Turner, Senior Analyst, Financial Services Technology, Ovum, said: "The introduction of BT Radianz Venue should help firms expand their trading strategies globally and meet their more latency-intolerant needs. The extension of BT Radianz into Latin America will provide additional value to its customers by helping them connect to this fast growing market. BT Radianz is the market leader in financial extranets, and despite the entry of new players in recent years, it continues to maintain its position."
Tom Regent, president, global banking & financial markets and sales & marketing, BT Global Services, said: "In 2011, BT announced a series of investments aimed at doubling its business in key Latin American countries. This includes plans to launch more than 30 new products and services. The addition of BT Radianz Venue is aligned to that effort and will contribute to the success of our customers who are expanding in the region."
"Latin America's financial markets have become increasingly attractive to domestic and global investors and demand to access the opportunities in the region has increased. BT Radianz Venue represents a significant development in the provision of hosting capabilities and lowest latency between trading venues and financial centres. We are pleased to be announcing the next stage of the development of the BT Radianz Cloud through our plans to extend the BT Radianz Venue offering into the Latin American markets."
BT is currently rolling out a series of investments in key Latin American countries. By recruiting 250 new staff, increasing its professional services capabilities, opening new centres of excellence and implementing a wide range of network and customer service improvements, BT aims at improving its support to global customers investing in this region and at helping larger Latin American companies to expand globally.


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Sometimes a job is just too easy and Gov. Sam Brownback has a chore this week that shouldn't be much of a stretch.
When they are dealing with taxpayers in the private sector who shouldered bigger burdens decades ago, it should come as no surprise that there is getting to be less and less sympathy for public workers who not only don't want to pay their fair share, but who show contempt for our system of government in the process.
If there is one thing we like to do in Kansas, it's eat.
Next year CBS could have Jackie Gleason host the Fourth of July program in Boston.
Imagine this: American cities are learning they need to rethink how they do stuff because of the aging of the population.
Good for the staff at the Alamo Cinema in Austin.
Earlier this summer, someone won $25,000 on a slot machine in Pennsylvania. Only they really didn't win, according to the state officials, even though they were allowed to keep the money. And in the process of all this mess, there are questions about just when a winner becomes a loser.
We are in that stretch of the summer.
"...they are endowed ..."
Every so often you come across these human interest stories that suggest you are only as old as you believe you are.
Local officials continued discussions about fireworks around Barton County this week.
Barton County officials weren't ready to put the kibosh on fireworks for this Independence Day, but that's mainly because it's so late in the game.
It's astonishing what ends up being controversial.
If you got to the Wikipedia Internet encyclopedia, and if you look up Bill Clinton, you are told that he was the 42nd president and that he was in office from 1993 to 2001.
For the uninitiated, the world is currently dealing with yet another in a seemingly endless variety of ways that we can be special and different. This time we do it through our Internet fixation and we call it "social media."
Great Bend residents routinely call the police to report that their cars or garages have been splattered with eggs or paint balls, and usually they're advised to wash everything off and call back if there was any actual damage. Sadly, vandals took it up a notch this week by writing racial slurs on the vehicles of a black family.
There is a ditch in the southeast corner of Ellinwood that falls under the jurisdiction of the city. It has also, over the years, become choked with weeds and other debris.
The announcement that the Heartland Cancer Center in Great Bend will be redesigned and expanded is welcome news.
Texas Gov. Rick Perry has committed up to 1,000 National Guard troops to the Texas-Mexico border to combat criminals that he believes are exploiting a surge of children and families entering the U.S. illegally.
We have been spoiled in Central Kansas. July, normally a time for extremely hot temperatures, has been mild. We all knew that we would pay the price, and now we are.
Two items in the news of late should act as a reminder to all of us that there are folks out there willing to scam us for our money if we let them.
Timing is everything.
The bad news is, anyone who uses Facebook has probably been experimented on. The good news is, there's nothing new in that. We've all been guinea pigs for years.
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As a concerned parent, you may be wondering how common depression is in children. The reality is that even young children can and do become depressed. Despite a long debate as to whether or not children have the developmental maturity to experience depression, childhood depression is indeed a well-recognized disorder among researchers and clinicians.
Approximately 3% to 8% of all children and adolescents have a depressive disorder, and 20% of young people show some depressive symptoms that do not meet the full criteria for a depression diagnosis.
How Early Can Depression Start?
According to Dr. Joan L. Luby, whose research was published in Current Trends in Psychological Science in 2010, children as young as 3 may exhibit clear signs of depression, such as inability to experience pleasure from play, sadness, or irritability.
The rates of all types of depression increase with age until adulthood. Approximately twice as many girls will experience depression as boys by age 15. Prior to puberty, boys have a higher rate of depression than girls.
Approximately 60% of children with major depressive disorder will also meet the criteria for an additional mental health illness.
Some research shows that the earlier the depression begins, the more likely that it is to recur throughout a lifetime and interfere with daily functioning. This really highlights the importance of early identification and treatment of childhood depression.
What to Watch For
As mentioned, children as young as 3 may show signs of depression, so watch for marked sadness, irritability, or inability to experience pleasure from activities like play.
Additional symptoms of depression in children and adolescents may include:
- academic decline
- withdrawal from friends and family
- thoughts or action of self-harm
- feelings of guilt
- feeling misunderstood
- unexplained physical symptoms
- appetite and weight changes
- sleep problems
- shyness; clinging to a parent
- unexplained crying
What To Do
If you think your child is depressed, seek advice from her pediatrician or a mental health professional. A professional can test, accurately diagnose your child, and recommend appropriate treatment. Treatment for depression gives your child the best chance for recovery.
Remember that children go through rapid changes as they develop, which may impact their mood. It is always best to have a professional investigate any symptoms in your child that concern you.
American Psychiatric Association. Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th Edition, Text Revision. Washington, DC: American Psychiatric Association; 2000.
Cecilia Essau (Ed.) "Treatment for Adolescent Depression: Theory and Practice." Oxford: Oxford University Press; 2009
Daniel N. Klein, Ph.D., Stewart A. Shankman, Ph.D, Suzanne Rose, M.A. "Dysthymic Disorder and Double Depression: Prediction of 10-Year Course Trajectories and Outcomes." Journal of Research Psychiatry April 2008 42(5): 408-415.
Depression and Suicide in Children and Adolescents. Mental Health: A Report of the Surgeon General. Accessed: September 01, 2010. http://mentalhealth.about.com/library/sg/chapter3/blsec5.htm
Joan L. Luby. "Preschool Depression: The Importance of Identification of Depression Early in Development." Current Trends in Psychological Science. August 2010 19(4).


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Press Release and Top News From 24-7 Press Release Newswire
February 11, 2009 at 03:00 AM EST
Free Valentine's Day Group Wedding and Vow Renewal Ceremony
NORWALK, CT, February 11, 2009 /24-7PressRelease/ -- "Celebrate Your Love" at the First Annual Valentine's Day Free Vow Renewal & Group Wedding Ceremony at Chatham Manor, in Norwalk CT.
Renewing your wedding vows is a romantic, moving and beautiful way to celebrate your love for each other. And for those who have chosen this day to get married, make this Valentine's Day wedding a dream come true!
The Chatham Manor is hosting this magnificent evening complete with a beautiful wedding arch, professional photographer and a legal wedding officiant. Chatham Manor is Norwalk's premier catering center (since 1941). It is an unforgettable setting to celebrate your love.
Couples who pre-register will receive a personalized certificate, but pre-registration is not required to participate. Send your full names and select vow renewal or wedding via email to
Event details:
Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009 - Valentine's Day
Activity: Group vow renewal or Group Wedding
Where: Chatham Manor - 493 Connecticut Avenue, Norwalk, CT
Time: 5 to 6 p.m.
On site Sign-up and Registration is from 5:00 to 5:30. The ceremony will be at 5:35 p.m.
Dress: Your choice - from wedding dress to casual
How can you participate?
Married couples:
All married couples are invited to a non-denominational group vow renewal ceremony at Chatham Manor in Norwalk, CT. No marriage certificate is required for the vow renewal ceremony. The vow renewal ceremony does not have legal significance.
Couples who want to get married (including same sex marriages):
All couples who wish to get legally married must obtain their own marriage license at either their town hall in CT or at the Norwalk Town Hall prior and bring it to the event.
To obtain the license application, visit the Norwalk Town Clerk website (
). The license fee is $30 and you must present your photo id to the town clerk. Advise the Town Clerk that the officiant is Justice of the Peace Mary C. Pugh and wedding location is Norwalk.
In Norwalk you can apply one day, pick up the license the next. Also, the town clerk of Norwalk, Andrew Garfunkel will accept your license application on FRIDAY, 2/13 and will bring it to the event on Saturday- be SURE to tell them that you want your license brought to the event.
You must bring your valid license (stating Norwalk as location in box 49) and your photo id to the ceremony to present to the officiant. As a courtesy, William Wrenn, a professional photographer, will be taking photos of the event and of the individual couples under the arch. Purchase of photographs is optional - photos will be available for viewing and ordering online after the event.
Norwalk Town Clerk, Andrew Garfunkel will be present to answer any questions.
Facility: Chatham Manor (203) 838-8598
Photographer: William Wrenn, (203) 853-9803
Wedding Officiant: Mary C. Pugh, Norwalk, CT (203) 838 1038
Norwalk Town Clerk: Andrew Garfunkel (203) 854-7746
There is no cost to participate in the ceremony and guests and family members are welcome to attend.
About Mary C Pugh
Mary, who has her MBA from Columbia University, has been a Justice of the Peace since 2004.
Her 24/7 availability and ability to speak English, Spanish and some French have made her very popular- she performs more ceremonies than any other JP in the state. Many out of state couples come to Mary as she guides them through the process.
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Filed under: humor, humour | Tagged: art, brilliant, stoned | 2 Comments »
Artists Will Understand
Extreme LED Sheep Art
Having a bit of a you tubeathon at the moment. It is surprising what one finds.
I'm feeling sheepish about posting this one.
The sheepdogs are not given enough credit.
Filed under: entertainment | Tagged: art, offbeat, sheep, sheepdogs | 6 Comments »
Pornography, Censorship and Art. Same old, Same old!
I am severely lacking in writing inspiration today.
Not that I don't have a lot to write about. I have a very important subject to write about. It is just that the words wont come out in a satisfying way.
Australians will know what I want to write about when I mention the name "Bill Henson".
Considered by many to be Australia's foremost photographer, he is fascinated by twilight, the space between day and night, by adolescence, that space between child and adult. The moment of hesitancy. He has been exhibited around the world and his work is hung in some of the most prestigious galleries.
Online, some of his work is visible and much more can be seen on the net – just google the name and then click on "Images".
Now to the the subject, the controversy. The best way to follow the developments is through a series of news items.
It began five days ago when police raided a Sydney art gallery. Within hours, the Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd weighed into the debate and the police began questioning the photographer. Betty Churcher, head of Australia's National Art Gallery gave her opinion while some of the subjects themselves spoke out. The controversy widened to another gallery while more than 40 of Australia's leading writers and artists supported Henson. Today the police have rejected the art world's outcry, while two prominent politicians have supported the photographer.
In another report today, Louise Adler, the head of Melbourne University Publishing, one of 44 prominent figures who have signed an open letter urging Prime Minister Kevin Rudd to rethink his condemnation of the photos as "absolutely revolting", calls the controversy a 'beat-up'.
"I don't believe that paedophiles and pornographers are going to rush to Roslyn Oxley's gallery to find Bill Henson's work for stimulation," she said. "The question is, is it a private matter, one of taste or is it that the community has to come down and make a judgement?
"Do we need to be chaperoned by the state on these questions?" she asked.
I don't believe we do. Although I know a lot of people will disagree with me.
Everyone's comments are welcome, although I do reserve the right to adjust the wording, but not the intent of some comments, where those comments may be viewed as offensive by some readers of the archive.
So that truly informed debate can take place, the image which originally sparked this controversy is over the jump.
Filed under: lifestyle | Tagged: art, Betty Churcher, Bill Henson, Bob Brown, censorship, Kevin Rudd, malcolm turnbull, photography, police, pornography, sex, Sydney | 49 Comments »
Sculpture By The Sea #7
The last in this series, I want to leave Cottesloe on a positive note.
So here are some of the works I enjoyed.
Firstly a work in stone which, to me, has everything I look for in a sculpture. It has tension and tells a story. This is something I can identify with.
Although, at $46,000 I think I will let someone else have it.
This next I like in spite of itself. The large curve, striving for "up-ed-ness".
Then I found it was a seed which had washed ashore and was a "New Beginning".
So while I went, "Hmm!" and passed by, I remained enamoured of the shape.
Finally something which is so crass that it has an innate beauty. I cannot resist liking this installation.
Steel, fibreglass, styrene and paint. Along with a comment about the state of the world.
"The words compassion and dignity are totally missing from international dialogue in 2008. This holds true of almost all world leaders, religions and political persuasions."
The final touch is the triple pun in its title.
"Peas on Earth"
As always it is best to allow nature to have the final word.
As I left the groyne where the above installation was placed, I found, hidden away in the limestone cliffs which face the beach, the following, which may or may not be a valid comment on the works of Homo Sap.
Filed under: lifestyle | Tagged: art, Cottesloe Beach, Perth, sculpture, scupture by the sea | 5 Comments »
Sculpture By The Sea #6
Forty years, or more, ago a European folk singing duo named Nina and Frederick complained of the regimentation of Homo Suburbanii in a song called "Little Boxes".
Since then there have been so many similar complaints the whole situation has become a cliche.
So there was no surprise when I saw this;
With its vaguely Hebraic or Arabic scriptal overtones, this "arch" is "an abstracted figurative [is this a redundancy?] work with positive and negative space and symbolic forms."
I think it was the creator who was abstracted. I keep attempting to find the humanity in this. I can't even find the humour! Not even in the $49,000 price tag.
Finally for today is this rather strange invention; the "pot wagon".
How you can be true to the material when that material is copper, resin with fibreglass and stainless steel is a question I would prefer to remain unanswered.
At $35,000 surely it deserves a better collection of words than, "I would like to carry the beautiful sky to your mind."
THAT sort of "pot"!
Tomorrow I post some works I found interesting.
I always like to end on a positive note.
Filed under: lifestyle | Tagged: art, Cottesloe Beach, Perth, sculpture, scupture by the sea | 4 Comments »
Sculpture By The Sea #5
The modern definition of good sculpture seems to rely on the infinitely meaningless word "interaction".
I'm afraid my definition of interaction does not include standing, looking at an object and scratching my head trying to work out just what was going through the
conman artist's brain as he created whatever-the-hell-it-is.
Today, as promised, I am highlighting not one, but two of the artworks which allowed me, and others, to relate to and "interact" with in a "meaningful" way.
[AAAgghhhhh - I've been infected by art-speak]
Firstly there is the deceptively simple "sticks" which is still overpriced at $3,300 despite the artistic twattishness of its description; This ephemeral sculpture endeavours to work harmoniously with Mother Nature to allow the soul of the stick materials and the site to "speak".
At least it allowed a space to play for the young and the young at heart. I enjoyed seeing them enjoy themselves.
Completely different is "Through the Looking Glass".
Reminding me of those security windows in stores which have narrow viewing slats from the manager's side yet appear to be a mirror from the
potential thief's customer's side.
At least a – what is the user of a sculture? A customer, a viewer, a client? – can have fun here, finding the mirror segment which is reflecting some of "self". I found my jeans-encased legs high on the left hand side. I liked the way you could see through it to the sea and even to a boat beyond.
So there were parts of this exhibition which I enjoyed.
The bad news is that tomorrow you get some more of the pretentious, the clumsy and the plain bad!
Filed under: lifestyle | Tagged: art, Cottesloe Beach, Perth, sculpture, scupture by the sea | 4 Comments »
Sculpture By The Sea #4
Here are some more of what depressed me so much at this exhibition.
For $20,000 some deluded CEO can purchase this representation of, I think, the inside workings of an internal combustion engine.
Or, should he be in a mood to disturb his customers, he could choose to spend $39,000 of the shareholder's dosh on this strangely arachnipodal aluminium piece.
Tomorrow I will have something positive from this art show. There were good parts, just like the curate's egg. Unfortunately the bad bits left a nasty taste in the mouth!
Filed under: lifestyle | Tagged: art, Cottesloe Beach, Perth, sculpture, scupture by the sea | 12 Comments »
Took a train ride from Perth to Mandurah the other day.
This is a new line, opened just before Christmas. From the Perth CBD, 75 Km south to what was a major beachside holiday resort but is now an outpost of the Greater Perth Metropolitan area. Passing through new suburbs and old farmlands, the rails end several kilometres inland of the beach. There are bus links to all the surrounding areas.
Just beyond the end of the tracks is a strange, already rusted, construction which is probably intended as art.
Filed under: lifestyle, Western Australia | Tagged: art, mandurah, railway, sculpture, World | 6 Comments »
Working through the thousands of images I have taken since my hands first wrapped around a digital camera, I have found a few forgotten gems.
Here is a rockface from Coral Bay, one of my favourite places on the coast.
While I am in awe at what textural marvels nature can create, I accept that there may be a few of my readers who are more inclined to gaze upon the wonders of a God.
Whatever, this strikes me as an image of interest and fascination.
Then again, I may just have a strange sense of beauty.
Filed under: art, photography | Tagged: art | 8 Comments »
In A Handbasket
Tired of the saccharine LOLCats?
Try something a lot more challenging.
Possibly blasphemous, possibly offensive,
possibly the funniest thing on the intertubes.
Whatever, because of this, I'm going to Hell!
Filed under: religion | Tagged: art, blasphemy, Hell, humor, humour, LOL, LOLcats, religion | 2 Comments »
L'Humeur? Mais Non!
A thief in Paris planned to steal some paintings from the Louvre.
After careful planning, he got past security, stole the paintings, and made it safely to his van.
However, he was captured only two blocks away when his van ran out of gas.
When asked how he could mastermind such a crime and then make such an obvious error, he replied —
"Monsieur, that is the reason I stole the paintings. I had no Monet to buy Degas to make the Van Gogh".
De gaulle of the man. I don't think he could even make it with Paris Nor mandy. He sounds a little in Seine to me. Probably too many Cannes. As Marcel Marceau would say…………..(and since he just died, umm, wondering just what his last mimes were, that is the final word on that subject)
(See if you have De Gaulle to repost this. I posted it because I figured I had nothing Toulouse!)
(thanks, Jeff)
Filed under: art, Blogroll, humor, humour | Tagged: art, Sad | 10 Comments »
Talk Like An Egyptian
On this blog I do not often record the day to day minutia of my rather dull life. Events and visual experiences around me are far more interesting.
Yesterday was an exception. Although, again, it was based mainly on some rather special visual experiences.
Years ago I helped daughter with a school assignment on the Sumer civilisation and ever since she has had an interest in ancient civilisations.
Daughter and family came up to Perth last night for a martial arts competition (note to self :- don't upset daughter or grandchildren) and stayed up overnight so they could take two children and an aged parent to the State Art Gallery.
The Art Gallery is hosting an exhibition on loan from the Louvre. An exhibition of ancient Egyptian Funerary Art.
Hundreds of real, ancient man-made objects. Like these 209 Ushabti. I won't talk about the rip-off prices on the memorabilia tables.
Naturally she had to introduce her children to very old stuff. And I was able to be there and share their wonder. It was also interesting to see daughter doing the early explanations with enthusiasm and skill. A genuine natural and unspoiled teacher with a subject with which she is still fascinated.
I was also able to wonder at a seven year old grandson who insisted on reading the labels and stories out loud. Getting most of the long words right. Even the Egyptian ones. You try pronouncing "Nephthys", "Qebehswenuef" or "Djedkhonsouiouefankh".
I am a very impressed grandfather.
Filed under: Anthropology, art, Australia, Blogroll, History, images | Tagged: art, images | 3 Comments »
Wild Oats
Someone has been sowing them!
Filed under: art, Australia, Blogroll, horticulture, images, nature, Perth, photography, Western Australia | Tagged: art, Digital Photography, horticulture, images, My Photography | 4 Comments »
Vale, Luciano Pavarotti
Italian opera star Luciano Pavarotti, hailed by many as the greatest tenor of his generation, has died after a battle with cancer.
Best known to the masses of non-opera buffs as one of the "Three Tenors", Luciano Pavarotti began his career in 1963.
Another career highlight was in 1972, when he famously hit nine high C notes in a row in "Daughter of the Regiment" at New York's Metropolitan Opera.
He later referred to the Metropolitan Opera as "my home".
Filed under: art, Blogroll, music, Uncategorized | Tagged: art, music, Sad | 7 Comments »
Bray It Again, Sam
In this age of movie remakes, one of the true classics is being re-made.
Since Morocco has become such a popular and well known tourist destination the movie's location has been moved to a more remote, exotic and less well known city.
The title needed to be altered to account for this change.
Now set in Nepal, in its new incarnation the movie will be known as "Kathmandu".
Due to the lack of truly reliable air transport, a number of leading characters will be played by locals.
Of all the Airag joints in all the towns in all the world they chose this one.
I believe the piano scene will be truly innovative!
Cartoon found over on Miss Cellania.
Filed under: art, Blogroll, food, History, humor, humour, lifestyle, Uncategorized | Tagged: art, cartoon | Leave a comment »


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Car chase ends in Lakewood Ranch
Date: May 27, 2009
by: The Observer Staff
An East County man was taken into custody following a car chase that began in West Bradenton and ended in Lakewood Ranch Wednesday.
According to Manatee County Sheriff's Office reports, Randy Lawson, 27, was driving a white-over-burgundy Cadillac with extensive front end and roof damages at about 1:10 p.m., May 27. Detectives believed the vehicle was involved in an earlier hit-and-run incident and followed Lawson as he fled eastbound on State Road 70.
Lawson turned south onto Lakewood Ranch Boulevard when his vehicle began to smoke and lose power, the report said. Eventually, Lawson turned onto Clubhouse Drive, slowed the vehicle to about 20 mph and bailed out of the vehicle.
Lawson fled into the woods along the roadway, and deputies dispatched a K-9 united. The dog located and took down Lawson, and he was transported to Lakewood Ranch Medical Center for treatments for his injuries.
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Tennis pro earns honors
Palm-Aire Country Club Director of Tennis Greg High has scored big with the U.S. Professional Tennis Association.
Petruff receives service award
East County resident and local attorney Patricia Petruff, a senior partner of the Dye, Deitrich, Petruff & St. Paul law firm in Bradenton, has been awarded the 2014 William C. Grimes Award for Lifetime Achievement in Community Service.
Fawn-d moment
East County resident Julie Kean recently captured this photo of two fawns resting on Legacy Boulevard, near the Lakewood Ranch Golf and Country Club's tennis and fitness center.


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Find and book great restaurantsFind a Restaurant
This weekend, Wandsworth favourite Chez Bruce reopens after a six-week refurbishment. To find out what customers can expect from the newly expanded site, we caught up with chef-patron Bruce Poole (pictured right).
The main reason is to get a brand new, enlarged kitchen in here. We've expanded the dining room slightly, not by much, but maybe by an additional 15 covers. It'll give guests more space, more comfort, more light – it'll be a nicer place to be.
The new kitchen will allow us to be a bit more flexible on the menu, but the style of food won't change at all.
It's nice to hear. We do our absolute damnedest to look after our locals. I think we're fairly old fashioned in that we concentrate on what Nigel [Platts-Martin, the restaurant's co-owner] and I believe is most important – and that's great food, great wine and great service.
I wouldn't say so. As you know, Nigel has other ventures in the centre of town with Phil Howard, but I've never personally had a strong desire to move in there.
We're doing this project because we want to be here in 15 years. It needed doing and this is to make sure we have the kitchen and the space to keep moving forward. As for me, I'm no spring chicken but I've certainly got the hunger to be here for the next 15 years at least.
Chez Bruce, 2 Bellevue Road, London SW17 7EG, 020 8672 0114. To read more on the restaurant click here.


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Dusty Page Named to All-MAC Team, Four Others Earn Honorable Mention
NIU Closes Regular Season Slate Against the Bulls
James Stevenson scores his fourth goal of the season in the defeat
Bertrand Gaschot scores his first goal of the season in the defeat
Charlie Oliver scored his first career goal in overtime to give NIU a 1-0 victory
GoPro Camera mounted in net at the NIU men's soccer exhibition.
2013: Earned Academic All-MAC Honorable Mention recognition. Appeared in 18 matches, including 15 starts. Named to the All-Tournament Team at the Wolstein Classic. Scored two goals and recorded one assist. Tallied goals against Cincinnati (Aug. 30) and Hartwick (Nov. 2), while recording an assist against Fairleigh Dickinson (Sept. 20). Registered 15 total shots, eight on goal. Played a season-high 86 minutes against Hartwick. 2012: Appeared in 13 games, making two starts. Registered a pair of assists, one against Valparaiso and one against Northwestern. Recorded two shots. Played a season-best 78 minutes in the season-opener against third-ranked Creighton. High School: Two-year varsity letterwinner at Westwood High School (2009, '10) ... Helped Westwood to a regional runner-up finish in 2010.Club: Member of Lonestar Soccer Club ... Played in 21 matches, starting 17, for the Lonestar U18 Development Academy team in 2010-11 ... South Texas State Champion 2006, '08 and '09.Personal: Son of Elizabeth and Jack Gaschot ... Born on Nov. 29, 1993 in Paris, France... Majoring in Geology.


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Read the full excerpt
Linda Francis Lee is a native Texan who now lives in New York City with her husband. She is a graduate of Texas Tech University, a former Texas debutante, and once competed for the Maid of Cotton crown. (It seemed like a good idea at the time.) After serving on a very real New Project committee, she became a seriously seasoned Junior Leaguer. She is the author of several romance novels, which have been nominated for numerous awards, including the prestigious RITA.
Linda Francis Lee


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This week on #askNat I'm responding to a message from Josef Praks in the Czech Republic city of Prague. Here is what he has to say:
Hi Nat,
I decided to ask you since you seem to know just about everything concerning The Beatles! You are doing a truly great job for us! Thanks for that. But let´s go to my question now. I am wondering for years & years if there is a version of "Hey Bulldog," including sitar. I have read somewhere a long time ago that there existed a sitar version of this song. What´s more – John was supposed to play it – not George! Do you know any details concerning this mystery? I will be glad to have any update on it and if being able to track it or hear it – That would be something! Thank you in advance and keep rocking & rolling!
Thank you Josef for the nice words concerning The Beatles Rarity and also for waiting for me to finally get this one posted. As more and more people send in their questions the backlog continues to lengthen. But enough of that…
"Hey Bulldog" was written mainly by John Lennon and The Beatles recorded the song on February 11th, 1968 before taking off for their sojourn in Rishikesh, India. It was actually a spur-of-the-moment idea to record because they were in the studio for another purpose altogether – to film a promo for "Lady Madonna" which they had just finished up by adding brass overdubs 5 days earlier. Since they were in the studio anyway, they decided to knock out another song. The following quote from John Lennon was given in Beatles biographer Hunter Davies' book The Beatles:
Paul said we should do a real song in the studio, to save wasting time. Could I whip one off? I had a few words at home so I brought them in.
The words John had written at this point had to at least have included what we hear in the "She can talk to me" passage of "Hey Bulldog" because there exists a home recording of John singing and playing that part dated from December 1967 or January 1968. Davies also recalls how John did try to play sitar on the song, strumming it similarly to a ukelele and singing in a Lancashire accent, but this did not work out and the idea was quickly dropped. Unfortunately I know of no recordings of this that have surfaced and it is unclear if any are in existence as that rehearsal part of the session may not have even been recorded.
John's song was originally called "Hey Bullfrog." A few days earlier, Paul had played drums for Paul Jones on his song "The Dog Presides" which contained a few barking sound effects. Recalling this, Paul started barking without warning during the recording of "Hey Bullfrog" just to make John laugh. After that point John began to sing it as "Hey Bulldog" and henceforth this was the title.
Along with singing lead, John plays piano on the track with Paul handling additional vocals, bass and tambourine. George Harrison plays rhythm guitar and John plays the lead guitar solo (as per numerous sources, although sound engineer Geoff Emerick recalls the guitar solo as being by George saying he has a "sparkling" guitar solo in his book Here There and Everywhere). George does play the fuzzy main guitar riff heard throughout the song. Ringo Starr has his usual place manning the drum kit.
Extra info:
"Hey Bulldog" was John's only contribution to the Yellow Submarine soundtrack. Paul contributed "All Together Now" and George contributed "Only A Northern Song" and "It's All Too Much." The title song was previously recorded for the 1966 Revolver LP and "All You Need Is Love" for a single the previous year. George Martin's score music filled up side 2 of the soundtrack album.
"Hey Bulldog" has a sequence in the Yellow Submarine film, but it was originally cut from the American version because producer Al Brodax did not like the song. The current DVD/BluRay release has the scene restored.
I'm hoping that answers your question well enough, Josef and please accept my regrets for not having any audio to supply. If anyone else has anything to add, feel free to do so in the comments section below. Thanks for reading!
Special thanks go out to Hugh Peche in Key West, FL for help with this article.
Thank you to everyone who has sent in their questions! Keep #askNat going by sending your questions to me in any of the following ways:
1) There is a designated form that you fill out right on the website where you can give your name, location, email address and submit your question. The form is right here and is the same form used to submit requests for BROWs (Beatles Rarity Of The Weeks), but modfied to do both BROW requests and #askNat questions.
2) If you are a Facebook user, you can submit your question right on TheBeatlesRarity FB wall at www.facebook.com/beatlesrarity. If you think about it, try to remember to flag your question with "#askNat".
3) Similarly, if you are a Google+ user, you can submit your question on TheBeatlesRarity Google+ page at www.gplus.to/beatlesrarity. Google+ supports hashtag searchability so it will be helpful if you preface your question with "#askNat" here too.
4) For you Twitter users, www.twitter.com/beatlesrarity gets you to the right place. Post your question and be sure to add "#askNat" somewhere in the tweet.
Here are some Amazon links to read more on, or purchase music related to this post:
1) Yellow Submarine [Blu-ray] – 2012 restoration (w/5.1 stereo mix) of original 1968 animated film featuring "Hey Bulldog" sequence. Available in DVD or BluRay.
2) Yellow Submarine (Remastered)
– 2009 remaster CD of original 1968 soundtrack with score by George Martin Orchestra and also including original stereo mix of "Hey Bulldog."
3) Yellow Submarine SongtrackClassic Supergroups Music CDs) – 1999 remix versions of all Beatles songs used in the film Yellow Submarine (except A Day In The Life). Contains many of the songs from the film omitted from the official soundtrack released in 1968. Includes remixed version of "Hey Bulldog."
4) Beatles/Beatles-related Music: The Beatles, John Lennon, Paul McCartney, George Harrison and Ringo Starr.


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Who knew Crown Casino would be hiding such an excellent bar?
The Waiting Room offers some of the best cocktails in the city. That's a fact. Their booze collection holds its own against any other, their glassware is a twinkling mass of vintage crystal cut coupettes and they're sporting chef Neil Perry's arsenal of snacks. Sure, it's in the casino, but don't let that hold you back. Once immersed in this richly carpeted room of plush banquettes, with heavy velvet drapes, silver tile mosaics and marble tables all picked out in soft pools of candlelight, you could be anywhere. Open from noon, you can take your mum for a proper afternoon tea of sliders, fancies and a lethal Hendrick's punch, or slide in past bedtime for a gimlet and Perry's Mexican-style finger-food fun. There's a fresh and feisty kingfish ceviche, deep-fried pucks of manchego and jamon and quite the hot dog, with a super-soft bun, squiggles of mustard and tomato sauce as well as a jumble of raw-and-fried onion. Pair it with their fiery margarita, where smoky chipotle infused tequila knocks knees with lime and agave syrup. Or how about a Red Snapper? Beetroot, tomato juice, gin and plenty of hot sauce is garnished with salt and a celery stick. It's practically a health drink. Even if the jingle-jangle of the slot machine sets your teeth on edge, get over it purely for this great bar.
High Tea:
High tea is actually only meant to start at 5pm. Before that hour, it should be called afternoon tea. At the Waiting Room, they are returning to this tradition, serving what was always meant to be a fairly substantial and meaty snack.
Finger sandwiches, 'sweet things' and the usual suspects all make an appearance, but you also get some mini dogs and sliders, and Hendricks gin punch thrown into the mix.
First published on . Updated on .By Time Out Melbourne editors | Photos by Graham Denholm |
Southbank 3006
Nearby Stations: Southern Cross; Flinders St
Telephone 03 8679 1800
Open Daily noon-late
0m - There's a stoush going on in Melbourne. In one corner you have Chris...
0m - Bistro Guillaume genuinely stays true to its name – it's all class. This...
0m - The look of Crown's latest addition, The Atlantic, is vaguely nautical...
207m - A seafood restaurant in the casino run by the formidable Donovan Cooke has a...
375m - Two words: sport and beer. With more than enough huge screens and live...
418m - There's a time and a place for everything. And when it's 9pm and the...
0m - Stylish, award-winning, and thoroughly modern.
0m - Situated within the Crown Casino complex, on the Yarra Promenade. A wide...
0m - A spectacular show certainly deserves a spectacular venue and The Palms at...
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I sit here living on land that once belonged to everyone, just as most of the world's oceans still belong to everyone.
Land differs from oceans in that respect. Land can be and mostly is owned by individual people, corporations and governments. But most of the huge puddles on this planet belong to you and me.
Oceans are for everybody, but land is mine, mine, mine.
True, Sharon and I paid for this property. And I gladly sit here on this little lot with a house, a vegetable garden and two rambunctious cats. However, I feel a little sheepish knowing the original owners never got paid in full, partly because they thought the land belonged to everyone and they didn't compete for individual parcels.
That reminds me of a French movie and two disturbing books I recently stumbled across.The movie (available on Netflix) is "The Other Son." It's about two babies, one Palestinian and one Israeli, who were accidentally switched at birth. The two young men suddenly learn they are part of culturally opposite families that they are supposed to hate.
Of course, it's impossible for me to live here among the original people and not see something familiar in a movie about Palestinians being forced onto what amounts to reservations. That's a familiar concept in this nation where our native neighbors were forced onto reservations while the new Americans took over most of the land.
The original Americans now have the freedom to come and go as they please without the checkpoints and passports and the massive Israeli military presence facing the Palestinians today.
Two recent books have rubbed my nose in the bloody similarities of what went on in this country and what goes on in Israel and Palestine more recently.
"Empire of the Summer Moon," was written by S.C. Gwynne, a seasoned journalist and inexhaustible researcher. Gwynne details the viciousness on both sides by the settlers and the Comanches.
The two factions took turns using terrorism. Both the Comanches and the settlers tortured, raped, scalped and murdered each other for years, trying to scare each other away.
The second book is "My Promised Land: The Triumph and Tragedy of Israel" by Ari Shavit. His Jewish family has lived in Israel since the late 1800s. He is a major Israeli writer and surprisingly even-handed in his judgments.
Shavit tells the story of Palestinians and Israelis savagely murdering each other in night raids several decades ago, not unlike those Southwestern America settlers and Comanches.
Eventually, the Israelis pushed Palestinians off much of the land the two factions had once occupied and farmed side by side.
After hundreds of years, few in that part of the world will give an inch. And there is no doubt that many Palestinians and Israelis (not to mention those white settlers and Comanches in the American Southwest) would rather watch their children and grandchildren die than compromise on peace.
Have these silly people never heard of a couple of saints named Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr.? Those two stewards of sanity were neither too angry nor too stupid to find a way. Gandhi and King dazzled doubters with the success of their tenacious nonviolent quest of freedom from strife.
I noticed something enlightening on television the other day. A tribute to King described his struggle for peaceful justice. And there in that audience sat King's children and grandchildren – alive, as children should be.
There's a lesson in that for the crackpot leaders of the Israelis and the Palestinians.Contact columnist Bill Hall at email@example.com or 1012 Prospect Ave., Lewiston, ID 83501.


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By Lisa Shrewsberry
Lifestyles Editor
Can you think of a sadder existence than not living up to one's potential? In the fruit world, that underdog with a tale of woe is the cranberry.
Gloriously colored, adopted by the grandest holiday celebrations and surprisingly nutritious, the cranberry has a lot more going for it than most cooks allow. Yeah. We know. The holiday table wouldn't be the same without a bowl of cranberry sauce or grandma's cranberry mold. But try highlighting the cranberry's versatility as a tangy component to a Tex-Mex salsa to present her favorite fall fruit as a crowd-pleasing appetizer, not an afterthought.
While they can't be eaten out of the bag (without a pucker), cranberries challenge cooks to transform them. They can act as a base for brining poultry to infuse both moisture and flavor. (Any exacting chef of a whole bird knows it's a crime not to brine.)
Maybe your little one has his nose turned up at traditional Ants on a Log, but tiny tummies will delight at Ladybugs on a Log, featuring sweet and colorful Craisins® instead of raisins.
Since the United States is the world's largest cranberry producer by a landslide, what could be more American than rustic cranberry-kissed pie pops? Bursting with fruity flavor, these delicious, bite-sized morsels will leave your guests feeling charmed and satisfied, not as stuffed as Thanksgiving turkey.


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SPIRO: Aussie sport's "darkest day" has become even murkier
By Spiro Zavos, 11 Feb 2013 Spiro Zavos is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- drugs in sport, NRL, Rugby League
158 Have your say
A composite image of David Gallop CEO of Football Federation Australia (FFA) (top left), Andrew Demetriou, CEO of the Australian Football League (AFL) (top right), David Smith, CEO of the National Rugby League (NRL)(bottom left) and Bill Pulver, CEO of the Australian Rugby Union (ARU) (bottom right). AAP Image/Lukas Coch
Related coverage
The Roar can reveal that a year ago ASADA confirmed with the ARU it was clean, as far as doping is concerned. The doping scandal in Australian sport revealed by the Australian Crime Commission's report is mired essentially in the AFL and the NRL.
The NRL is particularly exposed (and this is admitted by journalists working for The Daily Telegraph and The Sunday Telegraph, the two newspapers that passionately support the code) because it has never had a central drug integrity unit.
The NRL was an organisation that essentially ran the premiership tournament. The clubs were left to manage their own activities and to set up their own medical units.
This is in contrast, say, with the ARU or the AFL which have (if they want to exercise the power) significant control over what happens to their players, on and off the field.
There were 222 tests of Australian rugby players last season, for instance, carried out under the control of the ARU.
The appointment of Nick Whitlam QC by the Australian Rugby League Commission to examine the medical practices of a number of rugby league clubs is illustrative.
The Whitlam inquiry probably needs to transform into an ongoing unit after it has completed its present brief.
The PR of the ACC's report has been a fascinating exercise to follow, and a clue to the weight of the findings and to the report's future impact on cleaning up Australian sport.
The publication of the report by the Minister for Sport Kate Lundy, with the CEOs of the major Australian professional sports present, provoked headlines that one never imagined were possible in an Australian context.
Publication day was quickly identified by the tabloids as "the darkest day" in Australian sport.
This sense of a watershed moment in Australian sport was heightened by the sombre and almost repentant responses from the CEOs. They all promised to do everything possible to clean up whatever needed to be cleaned up in their sports.
For their part the politicians involved, Kate Lundy and the rising federal Labor star Justice Minister Jason Clare, insisted the report was the first salvo of what was going to be a continuing bombardment against illegal doping and match-fixing, and against players and clubs that condoned the doping and, especially, against the criminal elements who were pushing the trade in the use of illegal supplements.
The ACC said it had hard evidence to back up its conclusions and it was prepared to offer some leniency to players, clubs, doctors and sports scientists who came forward to dob themselves in.
This initial favourable reaction from virtually all parties with an interest in the matter, however, was in danger of being overwhelmed by Saturday.
There was strong criticism from a number of influential voices that the ACC report had not named names, either of players or clubs, and that the evidence of drug abuse was more assertion than proof.
On Sunday, the AFL revealed the possibility of most of the Essendon club having been involved (again possibly unwittingly by the players) in the use of illegal drugs or illegal usage practices.
The AFL insisted, however, that to their knowledge this was the extent of the problem, with the possibility of one other player from another club being implicated.
On Saturday, The Australian newspaper, which led its sport section with several excellent pages, aside from a bizarre report on the ARU's handling of drugs by Wayne Smith, gave this generic headline to its extensive coverage: Crime commission under siege.
The lead story of the coverage was written by Brent Read.
The headline of the story, "Show us the drug abuse evidence", was an accurate summary of its content.
A key quote in the story was this from the rugby league guru and administrator, Phil Gould: "Nobody has been named, no club has been named and no sport has been named. It's a broad-brush condemnation of Australian sport everywhere."
Some of the biggest names in Australian sport, the likes of Brett Lee, Paul Roos and Wayne Bennett, were listed as supporting this Gould line.
Bennett, in particular, questioned the work of the anti-doping authorities and suggested that they somehow allowed a drug culture to "fester".
Gould had also questioned the ACC's "grandstanding announcements" in his Sunday column in The Sun-Herald.
"I would say that at this point in time, our code of rugby league is the cleanest and most responsible it has been in the entire history of the game," he argued.
But the Sydney Morning Herald reported on Saturday that "seven NRL clubs, a number of AFL clubs, three A-League clubs and 90 individuals across all sports are under scrutiny."
There was more detail, slightly at variance with the SMH, in The Sunday Telegraph. A story written by its Canberra correspondent Samantha Maiden (perhaps explaining the seeming inside information from the ACC) and Linda Silmalis suggested that six NRL clubs have been "snared" in the ACC's report.
The NRL, the reporters claimed, know the six clubs which are being investigated by Tony Whitlam.
The article also quoted the ACC chief executive John Lawler: "I am very confident in the report's findings. This is no beat-up. We have sworn testimonies. We have corroborated evidence."
As an aside, there have been reports that some of this evidence has come from phone-tapping, which has been undertaken for more than a year.
I have often been critical of The Sunday Telegraph, on a number of different issues, but on this matter the newspaper has been a model of responsible journalism.
The Sports Editor, David Riccio, deserves a compliment on a lead story that carried the headline "The NRL has to name and shame."
The article made a number of important claims:
* "Match-fixing and illicit drug connections within the NRL are the report's main focus – and the authorities are anxious for NRL bosses to reveal the names of clubs under suspicion."
* "The NRL convinced other codes to appear at last Wednesday's press conference in Canberra, even though the other sports are far less implicated in the report."
* "Crime Commission chief executive officer John Lawler claimed the investigation wasn't a 'beat-up' despite the NSW Police suggesting there wasn't enough evidence for charges to be laid."
* "Frustration is also at fever pitch among the 16 NRL clubs, with club chief executives accusing the NRL of having 'all care and no responsibility' over the issue."
These points, it seems to me, effectively kill off any suggestion by Phil Gould that the ACC report is a beat-up and that it is somehow intended to implicate the rugby league code without much evidence.
As Ray Hadley says at the beginning of his rugby league match calls, "It's game on!"
For the NRL, that is.
Spiro Zavos, a founding writer on The Roar, was long time editorial writer on the Sydney Morning Herald, where he started a rugby column that has run for nearly 30 years. Spiro has written 12 books: fiction, biography, politics and histories of Australian, New Zealand, British and South African rugby. He is regarded as one of the foremost writers on rugby throughout the world.
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Have Your Say
The Crowd Says (158) | Page 1 of Comments
February 11th 2013 @ 7:46am
B.A Sports said | February 11th 2013 @ 7:46am | Report comment
Jason Clare said during an interview on ABC TV over the weekend that details had been handed over to "NSW and Victorian Police to continue investigations".
To me that clears you if your team and players are in QLD, SA or WA.
It also means it will take longer to sort out and less likely anyone will be formerly charged because the NSW police and courts have a history of botching investigations involving football players..
February 11th 2013 @ 12:22pm
matt h said | February 11th 2013 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
Good point on the implications of state police forces named.
February 11th 2013 @ 8:33am
james said | February 11th 2013 @ 8:33am | Report comment
this part confuses me;
"The NRL convinced other codes to appear at last Wednesday's press conference in Canberra, even though the other sports are far less implicated in the report."
why would Cricket, soccer, ARU and AFL or any other sport get caught in this whole mess because the 'NRL convinced them'? what could the NRL say or offer to them to get the CEO's to the press conference?
February 11th 2013 @ 9:48am
Rich said | February 11th 2013 @ 9:48am | Report comment
Because they're members of a mutual body? Because they were strong armed by the government? Because the ACC was also hoping to flush out people in those sports. There are many credible explanations.
February 11th 2013 @ 10:50am
james said | February 11th 2013 @ 10:50am | Report comment
'members of a mutual body' part of a mutual body, not the NRL convincing them
'strong armed by the government' the NRL is not the government
'Because the ACC was also hoping to flush out people in those sports' the NRL is not the ACC
I ask again. why would soccer and ARU who are clean according to releases stand up and have mud thrown at them from the request of the NRL?. there is no way that the NRL has the power to convince them to get on stage, so that statement is rubbish.
February 11th 2013 @ 11:01am
Rich said | February 11th 2013 @ 11:01am | Report comment
Stop reaching for things that aren't there. The sports are all members of a common body which is supposed to deal with these things. Furthermore, it blows the hype if the NRL turns up on the stage all alone. You should look for a job in the media, they love people that can build mountains out of molehills.
February 11th 2013 @ 11:47am
james said | February 11th 2013 @ 11:47am | Report comment
what am I reaching for? I'm asking why would CEO's that have nothing to answer for according to the report be there for the release of the report at the convincing of the NRL?
this is apparently a major point to kill Gus's argument according to Spiro but it makes no sense.
February 11th 2013 @ 12:08pm
Rich said | February 11th 2013 @ 12:08pm | Report comment
Why don't you tell us what you think it means? For the rest of us, it makes perfect sense for the reasons that have already been given. Let me guess, you don't think the explanation of the collapse of the WTC makes sense either?
February 11th 2013 @ 12:25pm
matt h said | February 11th 2013 @ 12:25pm | Report comment
They did it in case things come out impliczting there sport as the investigations continue. They would look negligent otherwise. The investigations to date hyave focussed on two sports (presumably NRL and AFL) but that does not mean they will turn to others as issues come to light.
They may also have felt that the federal government and all their juicy funding would like them to attend.
February 11th 2013 @ 12:29pm
Ken said | February 11th 2013 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
I think you've missed the point RIch, Spiro complimented David Riccio for a number of points in his article including:
* "The NRL convinced other codes to appear at last Wednesday's press conference in Canberra, even though the other sports are far less implicated in the report."
and this confuses me as much as it does james – the idea that any of these bodies would turn up and allow themselves to be associated with these allegations just because the NRL asked them to is ludicrous. Surely none of them, NRL included, would have been at that press conference (considering no evidence or specific allegations could be made at that point it really was just grandstanding) unless they were forced to by the relevant government figures.
February 11th 2013 @ 12:32pm
james said | February 11th 2013 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
so the following conversation makes perfect sense to you;
NRL: hey ARU, what's happening?
ARU: nothing much, you?
NRL: we have been accused of drugs, criminal links and match fixing. wanna come and take some of the bad publicity?
NRL come on, it'll be fun
according to Spiro/SMH the NRL convinced the ARU to go to this press conference. I would like to know how the NRL(not the government or ACC) got them there as the above conversation makes no sense to me.
side note; I don't buy into 9/11 conspiracies.
February 11th 2013 @ 12:49pm
Rich said | February 11th 2013 @ 12:49pm | Report comment
Your continual obtuseness demonstrates that you're not really interested in any explanation that doesn't fit whatever theory you having rolling around in your head.
February 11th 2013 @ 12:50pm
Brewski said | February 11th 2013 @ 12:50pm | Report comment
Don't think you need to be a rocket scientist to work out if all the other codes are there, and you aint then that is not such a good look.
that is why everyone was there IMO
February 11th 2013 @ 2:04pm
james said | February 11th 2013 @ 2:04pm | Report comment
i don't argue that all the CEO's from all major sports should have attended. I'm confused/arguing about the NRL convincing them to attend in some way of spreading the blame. it doesn't make any sense.
February 11th 2013 @ 3:03pm
Harry said | February 11th 2013 @ 3:03pm | Report comment
James, I dare say the NRL was asked by the Gov't to attend the press conference. Maybe they said they would on the proviso that every other major sport also attend. In that case the Gov't would have put pressure on the other sports to attend even though they were not directly implicated.
February 11th 2013 @ 8:39am
eagleJack said | February 11th 2013 @ 8:39am | Report comment
"These points, it seems to me, effectively kill off any suggestion by Phil Gould that the ACC report is a beat-up".
I don't think Phil Gould for one second was suggesting that the report was a "beat-up". Just simply that it has been poorly handled. Which is hard to argue with.
On these very pages we had Kate Lundy make the statement "Under the law, ASADA can only start working with sports on an investigation after the Crime Commission has publicly released its report. Now that the report is released, that important work can begin."
This was a clear attempt by the Govt to justify releasing a vague report which ultimately tarnished all Australian sports. Are you trying to tell me ASADA can only investigate drugs in sport AFTER the Crime Commission has released a report to the public? So what are they doing when we don't see one of these reports, which I would say is 95% of the time? Clearly not investigating, as apparently they are not able to.
What a load of bs. And political spin at its finest. These investigations could have easily continued behind closed doors until all evidence was gathered, all suspected parties interviewed etc.
No doubt there is a problem (how big, time will tell). And as a fan of multiple sports I want to see drug cheats eliminated. But there is no denying that this whole sorry saga has been poorly handled from the get go. Which is what Gould was implying.
February 11th 2013 @ 8:55am
TC said | February 11th 2013 @ 8:55am | Report comment
Agreed eagleJack – I'm not sure why Spiro is letting the ACC and the government off the hook.
February 11th 2013 @ 9:22am
eagleJack said | February 11th 2013 @ 9:22am | Report comment
The full quote from the Gould article is
"I would say that at this point in time, our code of rugby league is the cleanest and most responsible it has been in the entire history of the game. It will never be perfect. Never. Put that fact down to the frailty of human nature".
It is probably just a frank admission that while there may be a small element of drug abusers within the game today, it is nowhere near the scale of the late 80s, early 90s.
February 11th 2013 @ 9:26am
Justin2 said | February 11th 2013 @ 9:26am | Report comment
I'd say Gus is eating some pie of the humble kind this morning. 6 or 7 clubs investigated and wasn't there match fixing last year? Clean? Wow, I'd like to hear his definition of dirty….
Make no mistake the ACC have a stack of evidence and heads will roll and people will be charged. The Offsiders on ABC TV yesterday was brilliant.
February 11th 2013 @ 9:18am
Mango Jack said | February 11th 2013 @ 9:18am | Report comment
Damned if they do and damned if they don't. This story was bound to get out soon, and if the govt had said "sorry, still subject to a crime commission investigation, blah blah blah", there would have been frustrated outrage and demands for details.
February 11th 2013 @ 12:28pm
matt h said | February 11th 2013 @ 12:28pm | Report comment
Good point. They may have been notified that it was going public (obviously Essendon were).
It also possible there is a fair bit of political motiviation here (surprise surprise). Has anyone seen Craig Thompson's criminal charges, the failure of the mining tax, or the retirement of three ministers on the front page lately?
February 11th 2013 @ 9:22am
turbodewd said | February 11th 2013 @ 9:22am | Report comment
Right, so Phil Gould knows criminal matters better than trained law enforcement officials? You'll tell me he is a great stockbroker and osteopath next!
Gould has no more knowledge than you, me or my mother when it comes to law enforcement or the law in this matter. He needs to let the NSW police do their job.
February 11th 2013 @ 9:27am
eagleJack said | February 11th 2013 @ 9:27am | Report comment
You have copied and pasted this same post from about 3 different articles turbo.
I don't think Gould is saying he knows more than law enforcement officials. Just that it should have been conducted further behind closed doors before tarnishing all Australian sports.
February 11th 2013 @ 10:38am
turbodewd said | February 11th 2013 @ 10:38am | Report comment
I dont think theyre tarnished at all. Im waiting for the specific charges from the NSW and Vic police before judging anyone.
The ACC strategy is to try to flush out people to get them to cooperate.
Id say they know what theyre doing, we humble sportsfans just need to wait n see.
February 11th 2013 @ 11:06am
B.A Sports said | February 11th 2013 @ 11:06am | Report comment
The CEO of the ACC said we have collected sufficent evidence for charges.
They have handed it over to the NSW Police who have said there isn't presently enough evidence.
They're clearly not singing from the same hymm sheet and as someone who lives in NSW, while i support our Police and don't doubt they have an incredibly hard job and one which I wouldn't want to do, they don't fill me with a lot of confidence when it comes to their competence.
February 11th 2013 @ 10:13am
Captain Obvious said | February 11th 2013 @ 10:13am | Report comment
He was the NRL CEO for a while.
Unless the NRL allegations focus on the past several months, I'd argue that his inclusion is warranted.
February 11th 2013 @ 12:30pm
matt h said | February 11th 2013 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
Also, the article is as much about all the CEO's standing together, hence all the major sports in the picture. No implication at all as far as I am concerned. ARU is up there too and they appear to not be directly involved.
February 11th 2013 @ 9:46am
Rich said | February 11th 2013 @ 9:46am | Report comment
I'm doubting the hype. The AFL appears to be clean of PIED and match fixing, I doubt Essendon will get in trouble for anything.
If this end up being all about illicit drugs I'll scream. I am so sick of the hype about illicit drugs. I wouldn't encourage anyone to use drugs, but we have some ridiculous double standards in our society. It's certainly not worth ruining the reputations of footballers and sports on the basis of an eccy. I really couldn't give a damn about illicit drugs beyond how much money we waste and crime we promote trying to stop the inevitable.
Something to justify this hysteria better turn up or Lundy and Clare should resign.
February 11th 2013 @ 10:50am
Spikhaza said | February 11th 2013 @ 10:50am | Report comment
Maybe the reason your a neville nobody in media professionalism is that you can't see that the two Telegraphs are always marching to the beat of Rugby League… A very slow and predictable beat, but marching nonetheless.
February 11th 2013 @ 12:38pm
Brewski said | February 11th 2013 @ 12:38pm | Report comment
You probably fail to realise this, but if RL did not have all the scandals, sagas, etc then what could they actually write about, the more RL badboys there are, the better really for the code, the higher the ratings.
In your righteous, chip on shoulder, everyone is against us quest, you actually fail to see why RL is a big game.
RL has always run on being a down trodden underdog, and the game will not work unless it fears everyone and everything, you oughta have a think about that.
February 11th 2013 @ 3:11pm
Harry said | February 11th 2013 @ 3:11pm | Report comment
Thats the smartest thing you have ever posted on the Roar Brewski (bar the last paragraph). Then again – you had precious little to beat.
February 11th 2013 @ 4:04pm
Pot Stirrer said | February 11th 2013 @ 4:04pm | Report comment
Thats the dumbest thing ive read by a poster on the roar. Its so stupid i cant be bothered to have ago at you over it.
February 11th 2013 @ 4:21pm
Brewski said | February 11th 2013 @ 4:21pm | Report comment
RL has a seige mentality, if the big end of town and RU is not staring down their noses at them, then AF is infiltrating their Sydney heartland or soccer stealing their kids, they are not happy.
Nothing galvinises Sydneys Western Suburbs RL fans like a story that entails poor old RL being kicked while down again, the RL media, Admin and fans thrive on it, the Daily Telegraph of course knows all this, whether it is the catalyst for this, or accuses someone else is neither here nor there, it all ends up the same.
RL fans in general have a massive chip on their shoulder only slightly outdone by Australian soccer fans, and southern state soccer fans more specifically.
The worse reporting, behaviour and stories whether true or false are all good for RL, because that is what the RL demographic really wants.
February 11th 2013 @ 4:45pm
eagleJack said | February 11th 2013 @ 4:45pm | Report comment
Strange comment Brewski but I'm sure you feel better now that is off your chest….
February 11th 2013 @ 5:06pm
Pot Stirrer said | February 11th 2013 @ 5:06pm | Report comment
@ Brewski
February 11th 2013 @ 5:12pm
Brewski said | February 11th 2013 @ 5:12pm | Report comment
LOL @ pot stirrer, RL, scandal, saga, bad media reports, bad boys, high TV ratings and record media deals are all INEXPLICABLY linked mate, wake up.
February 11th 2013 @ 5:39pm
eagleJack said | February 11th 2013 @ 5:39pm | Report comment
Given the current saga enveloping both the AFL and NRL Brewski, it is strange for you to be throwing mud at the NRL.
But seeing as you are adept at making sweeping generalisations perhaps we could also say that the AFL TV deal was big due to its own scandals, sagas, bad media reports, and bad boys. Australians love a soap opera and sport encompasses everything into one neat entertainment package.
February 11th 2013 @ 5:50pm
Brewski said | February 11th 2013 @ 5:50pm | Report comment
To a degree i would agree with your comment, however their is a very different demographic in play in the southern states, which is not seen in RL.
AF covers in the southern states the whole spectrum of society, something that RL does not do in the northern, therefore AF cannot play the woe is me, everyone is picking on us card that RL plays in the north, the middle and upper classes would not have that.
To put it simply the AF demographic across the spectrum is indeed more sophisticated and would see through the code war rhetoric that comes out of Sydney, for what it is, and of course it is fear.
And i also might add, you accused me of a strange comment, but indeed your own comment backs mine up.
February 11th 2013 @ 7:47pm
Brewski said | February 11th 2013 @ 7:47pm | Report comment
I think you take things a little to personally CC, not having a go at RL at all, my view is that the more drama, saga, drug fuelled and alcohol incidents by RL bad boys the higher the ratings and the better media deals RL will get, what you should do is scream outrage , but secretly embrace it.
Its pretty simple, the demographic that supports RL loves bad boys and bad behaviour, and they love to be under attack from all sides, the DT gives it to them, regardless of what line the paper is pushing at the time, it still amounts to the same thing.
NRL players reflect their supporting demographic and viccy verca.
February 11th 2013 @ 8:20pm
Brewski said | February 11th 2013 @ 8:20pm | Report comment
Is that your final word CC ?
February 11th 2013 @ 8:47pm
Brewski said | February 11th 2013 @ 8:47pm | Report comment
So that is your final word then angry man !, you are not really listening …but anyways.
February 13th 2013 @ 2:52pm
clipper said | February 13th 2013 @ 2:52pm | Report comment
I think you have proved the 'us and them' siege mentality Brewski – I just can't understand why it's so hard to accept that the demographics are not the same between Melbourne and Sydney – Sydney has always had a strong Rugby presence in the North and East, now has a strong AFL presence in those areas and the inner city and a strong Soccer presence in the South West. Melbourne does not have those strong groupings in certain suburbs – it is all AFL and all the other codes followed are spread out all over the city.
February 13th 2013 @ 3:38pm
Brewski said | February 13th 2013 @ 3:38pm | Report comment
Don't know whether anyone can prove it, but there are plenty of signs that point to RL's seige mentality IMO.
The constant trashing of AF in Sydney papers, ramped up last year because of GWS.
The constant articles from old Roy, trashing the AFL over the years.
The constant need for RL in Sydney to be looking like it is always under seige and on deaths door, which of course always rallys the troops.
etc etc etc
February 11th 2013 @ 7:53pm
Brewski said | February 11th 2013 @ 7:53pm | Report comment
Not sure what to make of this post, usually i can get bits and pieces from your posts …. ..but from this one …. nada.
February 11th 2013 @ 7:25pm
The Great G Nepia said | February 11th 2013 @ 7:25pm | Report comment
What croc – I;ve been all round the world and Ive never seen a newspaper more biased in favour of a sport as the Telegraph is in favour of league – it's so biased, its childish and you wonder if people actually believe league players are 'superheroes'. Conversely, ive never seen a newspaper so biased against a sport as the telegraph is against rugby union and AFL. If it wasn't for the telegraph, league's support would be halved.
February 11th 2013 @ 8:50pm
Fred said | February 11th 2013 @ 8:50pm | Report comment
The terrorgraph has a well documented history of hatred of football. Look at the furore they started when the Giants first came into being. They called even feared for the kids!!! Any negative football story is always reported but good news ones are rare. Now compare this to the Herald Suns treatment of rugby league.
February 11th 2013 @ 9:45pm
Brewski said | February 11th 2013 @ 9:45pm | Report comment
You are correct Fred, the DT has fed the RL demo a never ending supply of fearmongering articles regarding AF in particular, they love it, the DT also bags RL from time to time, but that also galvinises the troops into being defenders of the faith.
The DT knows their target audience, and the more controversial RL is, the better it goes, people like CC just don't get this and run around defending the code with a blind faith.
Head office knows better.
February 11th 2013 @ 11:32pm
Brewski said | February 11th 2013 @ 11:32pm | Report comment
Fred, have a look at some of RL journo Roy Masters ARTICLES LOL
Particuarly nasty one about Keiran Jack.
February 12th 2013 @ 5:02pm
Brewski said | February 12th 2013 @ 5:02pm | Report comment
Besides the rest of your post, which TBH i could not read, so i am only going to pull you up on Rebecca Wilson …… she ain't no Swans ambassador, in fact i would be suprised if she was a ambassador for anything or anyone.
Please provide proof or retract with apology.
Many Swans fans feel ill.
February 13th 2013 @ 10:27am
Brewski said | February 13th 2013 @ 10:27am | Report comment
Fair enough, i accept that Rebecca Wilson was a Swans Ambassador, although it has to be said that a link pertaining to 2007 is stretching it a bit for today.
Much has changed regarding Wilson and her columns since then.
And that post was obviously written a bit slower than most of your others and was actually readable.
Once again, i am not bagging you or RL, my views are my views and maybe just maybe you take things way to much to heart.
All these other irons you speak of, feel free to post, and we can discuss
February 13th 2013 @ 3:22pm
Brewski said | February 13th 2013 @ 3:22pm | Report comment
Yep, and she has written some 'bad press' stories about the AFL as well , stiff bikkies.
You are just not following mate, my whole point …. just try and follow without flipping out, which, by my saying that will probably make you flip out !!.
RL and its fans don't want to smell like roses, the demo that follows it doesn't, and the players that play in general don't, big deal, play to your strengths, the current drug fiasco won't hurt RL one bit, if anything it will probably be more popular, even if the whole comp took drugs together in Wayne Bennetts backyard.
People like you who run around extinguishing little fires here and there out of the goodness of your heart and love for the game, don't get the big picture, head office does.
They act shocked and appalled, threaten this and that, but secretly revel in the bad boys behaviour ….ratings go up.
February 12th 2013 @ 6:50pm
Renegade said | February 12th 2013 @ 6:50pm | Report comment
I suggest you take a trip around the world again mate….
- Explore:
- drugs in sport, NRL, Rugby League


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text:
By Mark Fischenich
The Free Press
One week before voters will decide the newest member of the Minnesota Legislature, nearly 100 residents of House District 19A packed a St. Peter meeting room to hear from the three candidates looking to fill the seat left vacant by the resignation of state Rep. Terry Morrow.
The district -- which includes part of Mankato and the Kasota area of Le Sueur County, but it is dominated by Nicollet County -- is facing a choice between Republican Allen Quist of rural St. Peter, Democrat Clark Johnson of North Mankato and Independence Party candidate Tim Gieseke of rural Nicollet.
Nicollet County's seat in the House has flip-flopped between the parties going back to the 1980s when Quist represented it for three terms before losing two straight elections. And the political philosophies offered at Tuesday night's event did the same.
"You're going to hear very different points of view at this forum, and I think that's healthy," Quist told the audience at the Treaty Site History Center.
And they did, on everything from early childhood education spending and gun control to global warming and taxes.
Johnson, a Minnesota State University professor, asked voters to continue the trend of the last general election when they elected DFL majorities in both the House and Senate to work with Democrat Gov. Mark Dayton .
Johnson said opportunity and responsibility come with that complete control of the Capitol, and he suggested that his top priority was to put an end to the recurring budget shortfalls that have plagued state government for a decade.
"This is our time. This is our chance," said Johnson, who showed the crowd a copy of the 1970s-era Time Magazine cover with then-Gov. Wendell Anderson holding a walleye at a Minnesota lake.
The headline: "The Good Life in Minnesota."
Budget stability, even if it comes through higher taxes on wealthier Minnesotans, can allow the state's leaders a chance to create a new "Minnesota Miracle," according to Johnson.
"When the Legislature is constantly wrestling with a deficit, it's hard to plan for the future," he said.
Quist, a retired farmer and former Bethany Lutheran College professor, focused on his experience in the House from 1983 to 1989, his personal research in education and health care policy and his free-market conservatism.
Quist said he proved his willingness and ability to work toward bipartisan solutions during his previous stint in St. Paul and said those qualities will be needed in sorting out the existing and future problems Minnesota faces in health care administration and spending.
"I'm convinced I can get the bipartisan support to do the restructuring," he said of reforming the state's Medicaid system and the implementation of the national health care reform.
As for the state's recurring budget shortfalls, including the $1.1 billion in red ink facing the current Legislature, Quist called for no new taxes and cuts in projected spending -- the theme of Republicans both when they took control of the Legislature in 2010 and when they lost the majority on Nov. 6.
"I disagree with Mr. Johnson directly on this. We have to live within our means," he said.
And he resurrected his mantra from an October debate in Mankato -- then running for Congress against Democratic Rep. Tim Walz -- when he said the key to economic health was reduced taxes and fewer regulations on business.
"It means unleashing the lion of free enterprise," Quist said.
Gieseke offered a third approach, generally landing somewhere between the Democrat and the Republican. But the farmer and consultant didn't suggest his campaign was simply a middle-ground option for voters. Gieseke wants to bring his strategy of "shared governance" -- which is at the heart of his consulting company -- to state government.
"With Terry Morrow's resignation, I just felt it was time I could bring this model forward," Gieseke said.
The forum -- sponsored by chambers of commerce from St. Peter and the Mankato area and the St. Peter League of Women Voters -- relied on written questions submitted by the audience and emailed queries from the community.
Early childhood education? Johnson and Gieseke strongly supported more funding for programs aimed at pre-kindergarten kids, saying research shows a lasting benefit. Quist disagreed, saying the money would be better spent on programs for gifted and talented students.
Gun control? Gieseke said he'd support stronger background checks on gun purchases but doubted the efficacy of most other measures. Quist said research doesn't show any correlation between more gun laws and reduced crime, calling instead for a closer look at violent video games and for schools to teach students the golden rule and "the right to life."
Man-made global warming? Johnson and Gieseke agreed that it's occurring, Quist believes any warming is cyclical in nature and unrelated to human activity.
Johnson called for a civil discussion by Minnesotans on both sides of the gun issue aimed at finding common ground, although he conceded that hope for a consensus on the contentious issue required him to rely on deep reserves of optimism.
"I'm a natural optimist," Johnson said. "I'm a lifelong Twins fan."
Polling times and places for Tuesday's election are the same as for last year's general election.