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OMG, we are back from Paris and France (went to Bayeux too) for almost two weeks and I cannot stop talking about the food over there, or thinking, dreaming about it. It is hard to explain to someone how the food over there is all the best ever: The best omelette, the best chocolate crepe, the best sandwiches, the best bread, the best vegetables and fruit in the market (they look like pictures and taste, eh, the best), the best cookes (the macaron), the best duck, the best salads, on and on. Why is this? Are we heathens in the kitchen?
And now that we are back stateside, how can we replicate their food? I mean, the experience has changed my food preferences and expectations. Problem is, I can't get their food over here...or have you all figured out how to replicate the French food over here? I am going crazy wanting to go back there so I can try and eat more of their food!!!
Anyone else suffer from this?
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Why does French food taste so much better than ours?
OMG, we are back from Paris and France (went to Bayeux too) for almost two weeks and I cannot stop talking about the food over there, or thinking, dreaming about it. It is hard to explain to someone how the food over there is all the best ever: The best omelette, the best chocolate crepe, the best sandwiches, the best bread, the best vegetables and fruit in the market (they look like pictures and taste, eh, the best), the best cookes (the macaron), the best duck, the best salads, on and on. Why is this? Are we heathens in the kitchen?
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I found that Nutella was sold in my local grocery store, but that's the closest I could get without going to a fine French restaurant. I am a lousy cook and there's no way I could cook that kind of food. If only they made a French-style Hamburger Helper....
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Reminds me of a comment by a young man, a dedicated Republican, who said that the best Coca-Cola he had was in France - not that he "could say anything positive about the French." Obviously, he has a lot to overcome before he can truly enjoy French food!
French food tastes good maybe it's because the French don't doctor their food with additives, preservatives, etc. Pick their produce when it ripens. American food is bred to look good, not to taste good. Oh yes, when you sit down at a restaurant in France, you can stay the entire night and no one rushes you off. Just MHO.
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Welcome home Heavens! Glad to hear you had a wonderful trip. You know I was cheering you on all the way.
I believe much of it is because they work with very very fresh, local ingredients, and do things by hand. Not so many things are "processed" as happens with way too much food imo in the U.S. Europe is "organic" without a special label and price tag on it.
I can best replicate by home-cooking with ingredients in season from local farmers markets or health food stores.
As for the baked goods and crepes, I would never even try but frequent several excellent French-style bakeries and restaurants in my city.
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You just need to make mental notes of all places in your city... for example, Trader Joe has European cakes and chocolates. Smart & Final has Dutch cheese. Bargain Bank has French wines. Russian stores sell herring from Norway.
Just don't think that Swiss cheese made in Switzerland Look for imported kinds.
Check you local phone book, yellow pages, for exotic food places.
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Use lots of good butter in everything you cook for a start. You can get good French butter in lots of markets here in the US.
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All you need is Julia Childs's "Mastering the Art of French Cooking." That set my feet on the right path years ago, and I learned that it really is possible to replicate French food here. It takes time but is well worth the effort.
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yes,and you must be willing to kill yourself if it's not perfect-I think that's part of the deal!
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ingredients, ingredients!, The freshest herbs, the best virgin olive oil, vinegar you can afford. The fish as fresh as possible, clear eyes(not milky)
firm gills and no fish smell, it should smell almost sweet. The meat should not have much fat throughout the grain and again, a clean smell. Good unsalted butter, fresh vegetables during market days to support the farmers as well as the taste you want, A glass(and more_ of wine and you will never disappoint a guest.
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As everyone has said the key is real fresh ingredients. That means getting fish off the boat - not frozen, and eating fruit and veggies that are local and fresh - not picked early and trained across the country or boated up from SA.
Lots of places you can get this if you look for the best suppliers - but you have to accept that there are some things you can;t really get - like fresh ocean fish in the middle of Kansas.
And you have to eat by the seasons - recognizing really good strawberries just aren;t available most of the year (I can;t abide those gargantuan cardboard ones from California).
Also - it means you have to do like the europeans and shop for fresh food every day - not petrified stuff once a week.
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Probably the CocaCola in France tasted better then the Coke in the US because no doubt the Coke in France is made with sugar versus High Fructose Corn Syrup that we have in the US. I say that without knowing..but the Coke in Italy..at least up to a couple of years ago..is made with sugar as our Coke many decades ago was.
Absolutely fresh products does make such a difference. I always get annoyed at anti-American posts but I must admit that I really don't have much of an appetite for a lot of the food that is available in the US for all of the reasons that other have posted. Here I eat to live..I sure don't live to eat except with a few exceptions.
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As others have said, it's about FRESH ingredients. But more than that, my BF, who is a foodie and has written books about cooking and nutrition, told me that it's more than just fresh igredients--they haven't been adding pestisides and insecticides to their soil for years, so they have BETTER soil, which produces better foods. And IMHO, the atmosphere just might lend to the total experience as well.
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That's a given for me artlover, besides the fresh food(in season)good company that is like the glass of wine that enhances.
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Simply more time, more care put into food preparation. From the time they are young they treat good food as a more important element of life. It's a matter of priorities.
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To those who think that the French have not been using pesticides, I suggest that they rent out Farrebique and Biquefarre, one which shows the old (1946) rural farm and the other one the same farm 20 years later. If the food is not labeled organic, do not assume any purity. But the varieties are different: there are at least 3 or four different kinds of strawberries to be found in French markets, and at most two at the farmer's market in SF ( you could not get much closer to the production area).
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THE key is, IMO, knowing what to DO with all those "freshest ingredients" which aren't exactly exclusive to France and neither are foods without additives, etc.
Although I suppose you could say that even BAD French cuisine is better than many other "good" ones!
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You know (well actually you don't bc I have not written my trip report yet. but plan to very soon), but anyway, we did not make any reservations at three star restaurants. We just happened onto various places that we wound up loving.
Even the simple sandwich on the street is like something I have never tasted. The simplest of ingredients, not overloaded with condiments. In fact the day my DH and I were on Rue de Buci finding the perfect sandwich to take to the Luxemburg Gardens for a picnic, there wasn't a bottle of mustard to be found. My sandwich was a simple sliced pork tenderlion on buttered french type bread with sliced boiled potatoes and fresh cracked pepper. How simple is that? My DH picked a hot dog and, you guessed it, the best hot dog either one of us had ever had. Very different from ours. On awesome bread and topped with a little melted cheese.
But these weren't expensive meals in chi chi restaurants. These were just little cafes, boulangeries. Our perfect omelette was from Cafe Flore. But the food over there, even the most simple pain aux raisin (my favorite and I hope not to find it here or I will weigh 300 pounds by next year) is exquisite. They have raised the bar for me. My husband, partner in crime, agrees with me. Btw, as you Fodorites predicted, we did not gain but two pounds on the trip, due to average walking distance in Paris of 7 miles a day...
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Self delusion perhaps?
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It might also be related to the old self-fulfilling prophesy thing--we hear that French food is great, we expect it to be great, everyone says it is great, so it's great.
Or it could be--"Everyone says French food is great. If I don't gush on and on about how every morsel of food in France is absolutely the best ever, anywhere, then people will think I have poor taste. And not only does it taste better than the trash served in the rest of the world, it even looks better. Oh, God now I can't eat anything anywhere else in the world--I will starve unless I emigrate to France!"
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Or maybe French cooking just happens to match well with your taste and odor sensors.
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That does it...
You guys have scared me about American food so now I will just have to move to France....
much better than massagadevia's plan of killing myself....
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LOL, can't resist posting this again.
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My first meal/snack in Paris was at a creperie. I had the ham and cheese (I would have said jambon et fromage but I'm afraid that I will be reported to the language police for improper grammer or spelling)...anyway, I couldn't wait for it to be brought to the table. It was without a doubt the driest, gaggiest, nastiest thing I have ever tried to choke down. The more I chewed the bigger and drier it got. LOL I have since made note of several creperies that I will try, if near by, on my next trip to Paris. So, like anyplace in the world, you can get the good, the bad, and the ugly. I had many meals that were really terrific by the way.
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If you go to snopes (dot) com, you can find an interesting history of the Classic Coke/New Coke debacle that tells a lot about how people's beliefs about food products affect how we perceive the taste of same.
Many of us here probably can recall 'New' Coke when it first came out in 1985. Again, many here will know that the idea behind the newer, sweeter-tasting formulation was to help Coke regain market share from Pepsi.
In the same year, in response to consumer demand that the old formulation be retained, Classic Coke was (re) introduced. This, even though blind taste tests had indicated that people preferred the 'New' Coke and its sweeter taste. This was a true case of people's emotions and nostalgia trumping what their taste buds were telling them.
It gets even more interesting. Coke Classic was sweetened with high fructose corn syrup - but then, the 'old' Coke (and Coke Classic was just a renaming of that beverage formulation) had also been sweetened thus, ever since 1980 - five years before. Nonetheless, people swore they could tell the difference between 'old' Coke and Coke Classic, and put it down to the company's using the opportunity to 'sneak out' cane sugar and replace it with HFCS. Again, emotions/rumour trumping reality.
So, too, with travel and food and some of the reasons we convince ourselves of why it tastes better on holiday. I wish I could remember the name of the transplanted French chef whose interview in 'Chocolatier' magazine I read many years ago. This chef had felt greatly insulted when visiting friends from France asked how could he cook in the US without quality ingredients?
In the interview, this chef related how he dragged his friends into the kitchen so that he could provide for them samples of produce, etc. from all over the US, and insisted that they inspect it carefully, to satisfy for themselves the high quality.
So, from the 'wrong' sweetener to 'stale' ingredients to 'over-preserved' food (by the way, sugar itself is a preservative - so is salt - and it's darn hard to cook without these things)- myths about food abound.
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BTW, I'd add Italy to this discussion as well.
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Rufus, didn't LOVE everything. Didn't eat the gizzards on my salad in Bayeux. Didn't like the Italian meal we had one night (our friends loved it, but they got lasagna.) And to be honest, we weren't that adventurous. Maybe we just got lucky. But we do love food, and we were surprised by the quality of what we saw. And the taste. They do know good food...but your theories are interesting.
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It's not imagination that French food is generally better than American food; it is due to a number of factors, but they add up to a higher standard for food among consumers. For example, a theme restaurant with really bad food can survive indefinitely in the U.S., whereas any restaurant with bad food in France will go out of business fairly quickly, no matter what wonderful theme it has.
A sandwich bought on the street in France isn't going to be particularly memorable, but it will probably be better than a sandwich bought on the street in the USA.
Coca-Cola is still made with sugar in France, as far as I know.
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Heavens- Bienvenue! I used to ask the same thing about Spain. Not at first, though. I am a Southern girl raised on biscuits and gravy, steaks, grits, hominy, ears of corn, fresh killed fowl (buckshot and all), Tex Mex food, and all kinds of delicious. Then I get to Spain. . . roasted peppers, paella, fish (and more fish), olive oil (instead of butter). . . I didn't even know what to do except grin and bear it. Then I started grinning and loving it and after years of Spain, Boston, Dallas, and numerous trips all over the place, I say the food is best where they know how to eat and they know what to prepare. In Spain you don't see people trying to find great strawberries in December. Inland Dallas (unless you shop expensive) is not the best place to find fish. Don't even try for a great steak in Boston (especially if you are from Dallas).
I think that France (preparation aside) is like Spain in that, as a small yet varied country, there is a lot of access to a wide range of foods. I wouldn't say so much that it is better but that there is more access to constant variety and freshness that we do not get everywhere in the US. Give me a traditional paella made by my host dad and I will show you the best rice dish in Spain. But then give me a plate of chicken and stuffing with green beans and fresh cranberrry relish and I will show youa favorite of mine. And nothing beats a Boston seafood dinner. Except perhaps a Maryland crab festival.
I do think that there are more subtle "chefs" over there because cooking is still a big part of daily life. The same way it is in my home where every single day includes cooking for at least 2 hours.
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Well, a train station meal is still a train station meal. We ate sandwiches in the Bercy station before leaving on the overnight train to Rome. Unlike the sandwiches elsewhere in Paris, these were thick with rubbery chicken, stale bread and slathered with the most unusually-colored commercial mayonnaise. Limp tomatoes and a discouraged, drooping lettuce leaf completed this unappetizing ensemble. I used the lettuce to slake off the mayo (a difficult, untidy procedure surrounded by strangers and luggage) and ate it, as we were starved from a day of sightseeing on Segways.
I figured it had to be better than the meal on the train. Son wisely eschewed sandwiches and subsequent train meal in favor of sleep.
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laclaire, I am also from Dallas. And we do have good Tex Mex and you forgot the BBQ. My sister regularly sends us a bottle of Sonny Bryans BBQ sauce. It is awesome.
Well, yes, great points all. And they do design the dish around what is fresh and good that day, each day. I think we are now more aware of how important fresh food is; not packaged from a box of from Jack in the Box. Am I now a food snob? Maybe. But fact is I live here and will have to adjust to "normal" eating again.
Which isn't bad really. Just didn't expect to be so blown away by the heavenly French food. I was worried about hating it and it all being too rich(I had a post on that). Funny how it turned out. Our friend from AL is still raving about his vegetable plate he had one night and we are rolling our eyes saying what can one do to make a vegetable plate so wonderful? He can't explain, but says it was the best he ever had...LOL.
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In the United States we have chosen to have cheap and abundant food. France has made a different choice.
The average American family spends 9.5 percent of their disposable personal income for food. That figure has been falling rather consistently since statistics were first compiled on the subject.
That figure means that the average American earns enough disposible income in five weeks to pay for his food for the entire year.
By contrast, residents of France must work more than nine weeks to earn enough to pay for their annual food supply.
However, Americans who wish to avoid the mass market product which is responsible for these low costs are free to do so.
The chicken I fried tonite was a free range bird that was raised by a neighbor 2 miles down the road. The tomatoes in the salad were from a farm 11 miles south of me. The onions, romaine, lettace and blackberries that were also in the meal were raised in my own garden. There is nothing to prevent anyone from doing the same. The choice is yours.
And, one might note, the reason that Paris is being overrun with Starbucks and McD's is that, when given a choice, many Frenchmen choose that crappy American fast food. Not a choice I would make but neither do I think it a good thing NOT to have a choice.
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Heavens- I floated the Guadalupe this past weekend and what did I consider a necessity? Aside from the beer and a sleeping bag, 2 bottles of Sonny B's BBQ sauce. Because if you gave me a straw, I would drink it.
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One of the great things about the Julia Childs TV programs was her attitude if something went wrong--laugh it off rather than get upset. I still remember the episode when she dropped the fish (or something), picked it up, looked at the camera, and said "Well, no one will ever know about that."
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All the points above about fresh ingredients and so on are well made.
But there's one other essential difference between food served in France and Italy and food served in North America.
Europe's culinarily literate countries have no truck with this "customer comes first" nonsense. With a few exceptions, in Italy and France you get your food cooked and condimented the way the cook thinks it ought to be.
So what goes into your mouth is food designed by someone who knows all about what the ingredients are like today, and has spent a lifetime understanding what goes with what.
The complete opposite of a world where it's cooked to a formula written two thousand miles away. Then ruined by a customer who either thinks it's a basic human right to slaver real meat with some repellent barbeque sauce, or truly wants to mask the taste of real food by covering it with something outr of a factory.
Comes from your colonial masters of course. If you'd been colonised by the French or Italians your human rights would be a lot shakier.
But you'd be a lot healthier and happier.
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Every time we go to France it's the same thing for us too. Most of the food tastes so much better. We also lived there for half a year, and we ate a lot during that time, of course, so we had some pretty bad things at times. Not everything was better, and some things were downright unedible. But in general, the food just plain TASTES BETTER.
I agree with all the posters who replied saying they have less hormones, preservatives, sulfites, etc in French products. It's true. Plus, the cheese is not pasteurized so that makes a big difference. The Boursin or President Brie tastes nothing like in France.
Nutella here is not a delectable as in France or Italy either.
The Coke is defnititely less sweet over there, but I never knew about the real sugar vs. fructose corn syrup. That is very interesting!
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I was tempted to ask why other posters to this site are drinking coke in France, but I suppose that's a silly question. The french food would taste even better with wine, or even water if you have to. Though we haven't become quite so packaged as the US, food is generally better in France and Italy [and Spain] than it is in the UK, but we can still make a good stab at it by buying fresh, preferably from Farmer's markets - or even growing our own! THere's nothing like pulling your own carrots, lettuce, beans, you know what's gone on it and you have plenty of choice of varieties. Most salads and veg can be grown in pots. some olive oil, some good bread, and there you are.
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Bear in mind that being on holiday might have something to do with it. You're relaxed, you have time to savour what you're eating, you're somewhere out of the rut.
Don't beat yourselves up too much.
Day-to-day household cooking in France can be just as prone to processed convenience food and what faddy children will eat, too; and French supermarkets can be depressing at times.
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I think Cotswald Scouser and others have touched on this, but I think it is the US and to an extent the UK's obsession with "value for money". WE may be willing to sacrifice a little taste for a little money.
In one of his books, Bill Bryson tells the story of a local Mexican restaurant that was always full, and very popular. A branch of a big chain of Tex Mex restaurants opened nearby, selling cheaper meals. Within months the local restaurant closed, and this fact was lamened by most in town, as most agreed the quality of the food was better, but they had mostly decided where to eat based on cost.
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As always, people are much too willing to under-rate American food. Yes, there is a lot of fast food etc. around, but there is a LOT of outstanding food available in the U.S. from fresh produce. I grew up in the PA Dutch country--most of our produce--corn, peaches, apples, strawberries, raspberries, peas, beans, red beets, etc.--came from local farmers. We bought fresh regularly from them, unless we actually picked it ourselves either from the farm OR from our own garden. The chickens we ate came from a free range chicken farmer who lived two miles away--we would call up on Wednesday to reserve a chicken for Thursday. Our beef also came from a local farmer. All our cakes, pies, waffles, and cookies were made from scratch.
Even in Philadelphia, you could go down to Reading Terminal and get fresh produce just as good as the stuff you find in France. Sometimes better.
We also lived in the Pacific NW, where the salmon snobs have ensured that you can get salmon that is MUCH MUCH better than the stuff you find in the average French restaurant (or most elsewhere in Europe). I've yet to try any crab in Europe that matches fresh Dungeness crab from the Dungeness area in Sequim. Or soft shell crabs fresh from the Chesapeake (in Europe, they come frozen from Thailand).
The easiest thing in the world to do, apparently, is make sweeping disparaging comments about American food. But there is a wealth of fabulous American food out there. You don't have to buy or eat prepackaged or fast food.
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<edit> BTilke, my post was in the works when yours posted. I agree with you - you can get great food in the US - read on....>
What I'm pointing out is that emotion and socializing are a huge part of the food experience. This isn't a bad thing - but it does show how hard it is to objectively rate food - and wine too, for that matter. If the food tastes better to someone, it tastes better, no questions asked!! What I am questioning though, is the automatic assumption that when food tastes better to one, it is primarily, if not solely, a matter of national culture.
If we're going to analyse why food tastes this way or that, as Heavens is, we have to agree on some rules, including the apples-to-apples, oranges-to-oranges rule.
It makes sense to compare sweeteners within one and the same beverage line, but is it meaningful to compare Coke to wine? Not only are we comparing a non-fruit based drink to a fruit-based one, we are comparing a non-fermented (and often carbonized) one to a fermented one. Besides, getting back to the cultural thing, the French didn't invent grape fermentation, and as for quality, we could well crash the server with a discussion about whether French wine is invariably better than non-French wine.
(By the way, I'm amused at the reaction some have against Coke - is Coke to be the Disney of the beverage world?!!)
One is also on somewhat risky ground to compare chain restaurant food (which is often deliberately designed to appeal across regions) to food prepared in bistros, etc. that are catering to distinct market niches.
Freshness needs an objective index, as well. By rights, if one is going to cite it as a reason for why the food tastes beter to one, it should be possible to prove that it spent only x units of time in transit from field to plate. This might be hard to do. A fair assumption might be that freshness is directly related to how fast inventory turns over, which in turn is related to demographics: Areas with not only a dense population but with a significant percentage of affluent consumers generally have fresher inventories of just about anything. This might explain why the food that tasted consistently freshest food to me was in NYC, including food that couldn't have been grown in-state, such as oranges. Yet it's highly probable the oranges I ate in NYC came from the same Florida citrus-growing region as the ones I see in my own local supermarket. (I now forgive all New Yorkers their food snobbery - it must be hard to travel anywhere when one has that kind of range of eating experience available in one's own back...uh...balcony....)
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The reason that French food is so good is that the English subsidise it. This is honestly true.
The reason that French food maintains its high quality and regional specialities is that it is produced on family owned farms that wouldn't survive in a commercial world. The only way that they can keep going is through the massive subsidies of the EU's Common Agricultural Policy, which Britain pays for (well we're by far the biggest net payer).
In America farms have to survive in the commercial worlds (to an extent anyway) and that's why the emphasis is on high yield products and things like feedlots. High yield food is tasteless food.
Here in the UK we also suffer from the same thing – but in our case it's due to our agricultural policy being based on the memory of food shortages in the war.
So next time your munching a nice crape in Nice, remember to thank the nice people on the other side of the Channel for making it possible (you might like to do the same when you're travelling on Spain's roads, Ireland's trains, Greece's ferries, portugal's airlines and just about anything else in Europe that doesn't have an anglo-saxon accent).
Also some of the worst food I've ever had is in France. You think all French food is good food? Try Flunch or Quick and you'll soon change your mind.
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David, Quick is a Belgian chain. I agree it's awful, makes McDonald's look gourmet, but you can't blame the French for that one.
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Very interesting thread; I've been to France many times and I do enjoy the food but I am not overly impressed by it, we have fabulous food in Montreal so I would think it has to do with the quality of restaurants you frequent in your home town.
I like their baguettes more than ours though, it has more crust and less of the white bread part.
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While partly agreeing with David the custardmonstor about the CAP, If I have to pay for it, then I would rather it be used to keep some French peasants on their land, than two of the biggest recipients of farm subsidies in the UK - who shall be named only as Liz and Charley, but arn't short of a few pennies.
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Hi H,
Glad you enjoyed your visit.
>And now that we are back stateside, how can we replicate their food?<
You can't, really, but you can try.
In both France and Italy (and I think Spain) large subsidies are paid by the central government to keep small, inefficient farms, bakeries, fish mongers, butchers, etc in business.
In return, consumers get fresh, well prepared, good quality products at low prices.
The same high quality is available in the US at somewhat higher prices, but only where there is a sufficient market to keep them in business.
There are no Trader Joe's in Georgia. The only Whole Foods markets are in Atlanta.
We have fewer than a baker's dozen of artisanal bakeries in Georgia.
Local farmers plant cotton until they go bankrupt. Then they switch to soy beans. It is very hard to find fresh produce. You have to grow your own.
Our local supermarkets get their merchandise from a distribution center hundreds of miles away. "Fresh" fish, might have been frozen/thawed/refrozen more than once between the factory and the consumer.
All of the meats at our local WalMart are "enhanced by up to 12% of a solution" (they don't say what's in the solution).
So, what is one to do?
Get "Mastering the Art of French Cooking" Vols I and II and start practicing.
Not every French family can afford the freshest and best, but they know what to do with what they have.
Learn how to make your own bread. (It won't be as good as in Paris, but it will be better than what you have become used to.)
Watch the Food Channel regularly. Molto Mario is particularly good.
Buy better quality and eat less of it.
Season with herbs and spices instead of salt.
Get a vacuum sealer for those things you freeze yourself.
Find a good wine shop and start drinking wine with dinner. Don't worry if it is not the perfect pairing of food and wine.
It won't be very long until your friends start complaining that you have become a gourmet snob.
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"In both France and Italy (and I think Spain) large subsidies are paid by the central government to keep small, inefficient farms, bakeries, fish mongers, butchers, etc in business".
"Nice British people subsidising the evil (French, Italian, Spanish...) farmers"
There would be a lot to say about this self-serving rubbish which seems to come from the latest issue of some British tabloid...
What's more important : "economic efficiency" (meaning yet more money in the pockets of the shareholders of some large food corporations) or the enjoyment of healthy food?
As someone noted, there are big beneficiaries of the CAP in Britain, where the farming sector is very concentrated (which does not prevent the occurrence of food poisoning).
What's more important : turning the countryside into some big leafy suburb or allowing farming people to live there decently?
What's more important : producing farming products as close as possible to the places where they are consumed or flying them from across the planet with all the related environmental costs?
Farming is very subsidised everywhere, including in the US. And the swiss cow (not in the detestable EC, though) is supposed to be the world's most subsidised animal...
Britain has (or had) culinary traditions. Why did it let them go?
I won't go further into the polemics, and finish with this question : Why don't Americans (and to the lesser extent British people) grow more of their own produce, being countries where single- family housing is predominant? In the US I did not see many vegetable gardens, or fruit trees around the houses. There are lots of places in the US where apple, pear, cherry trees can be grown, and some areas in the US are warm enough to allow even two vegetable harvests a year. What are the obstacles to that?
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Lots of interesting points of view.
I wonder how indescribably delicious food on, say, a busy Tuesday is in a typical French home? Probably, they, like Americans, "put on the dog" on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays if we/they have guests...but otherwise, sometimes, just sometimes, its pretty mundane and comforting.
PatrickLondon I think references what I think. You're on Holiday and its FRANCE! ...and you're eating in commercial establishments...
As an aside, I give their simple vinaigrettes a thumbs up...must be the fresher oil and vinegars to go with that super fresh crunchy greenery
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Hi Tru,
You left out the next line of my post, "In return, consumers get fresh, well prepared, good quality products at low prices".
We are on the same side.
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Each country in the EU has a different approach to food production based on it's politics and history.
France's is dictated by a powerful farming constituency (which is itself a function of it's property laws and Napoleonic code). This means that there is a strong political motive fort keeping small uneconomic farms, cheesemakers etc going (and since we joined the EU (a black day indeed) Britain has been the biggest contributor to those subsidies.
Britain's food policy was based around being able to feed our little island in the face of war – the Germans nearly starved us into submission, and we don't want that to happen again.
That means that our system favours larger more corporate farming, as this is how you produce the most stuff.
This is also what went wrong with our food – we were more interested in the quantity than the quality. This thankfully is now changing and you can eat very well indeed in Britain now.
What will be interesting is seeing how membership of the EU impacts on the recent accession nations – many of which are very rural.
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SuzieC, I know plenty of French families where the standard week-night dinner would be a slice or two of (processed) ham accompanied by some instant mashed potatoes. (I know lots of French people that never make their own mashed potatoes (don't even know how!), only the instant stuff from a packet.) Canned green beans and a plain hamburger patty is another standard dinner. My (French) husband's favourite dinner when I'm away is that awful canned ravioli in tomato sauce!
And if you ever have the misfortune to eat lunch in the staff canteen in the place I used to work in Paris, you'll discover just how horrid food can actually be made to taste in France.
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Oh, and for many dishes it could be butter. Many French dishes involve lots and lots of butter.
We were watching a cooking show some time back (maybe Julia Child with Jacques what's-his-name) and the Frenchman was asked why some French dishes taste so good. He replied that a half a stick of butter in a serving of any dish will make it taste good.
So that's another possibility.
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Ira, I am sorry that the food scene in your area is so grim. But you should be aware that, although you do not have access to the large stores you mentioned, you can access a wide variety of meats, to name just one option, through the internet. Take a look at the Niman Ranch site, for example.
Many of the products used by Mario Batali on his show are available on-line as well, including the cured meats made by his dad, Armando, which are featured in today's New York Times
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>He replied that a half a stick of butter in a serving of any dish will make it taste good.<
To which Julia suggested that a whole stick would make it better.
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When my penpal from Ireland and I met in Chicago she wanted to eat at Red Lobster! I wanted to strangle her! Seriously, there is some great cuisine in America- N CA is very fresh, healthy, vegetarian-friendly. But here in KY, get outside the city and it's mushy vegetables in lard, fried everything and brown food groups. We've trained our kids to eat junk and fast foods and lowered the expectations from the food industry.
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The vacation theory doesn't totally apply. It is a factor, I will admit. But before Paris we were in Dublin for five days and even though most of our food was very good (especially the Guiness stew at the Guiness factory) it was not up there with the food in Paris. And most of the food in Dublin we didn't have to pay for. Now that can really make a meal taste beyond good in my book, LOL.
I think it is that they aren't afraid of mixing interesting combinations of foods. Many of the salads are main meal salads with meats, foi gras, seafood, fresh vinaigrette, which I will admit really brings out the flavors of the salad. And some of the combinations in their sandwiches. At Paul they had a caprese sandwich; red, ripe tomatoes, basil leaves, slices of fresh mozzeralla on a fresh half soft baguette - how simple. Why didn't I think of that?
Here is my conclusion; DH and I agree, we must return to Paris for more research...anyone want to join us? LOL.
We, yes, Ira, it is the replicating that is preoccupying my mind lately. I know I have been to the mountain top, for whatever reasons we might not all agree. But why can't I get even close to the omelette at home? Or the sandwich. Dilemma...
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TO David West re British EC membership :
I think De Gaulle's position was the right one : not allowing Britain to be admitted into the EC, because it is so contrary to the country's history and traditions.
It is a bad thing France was forced to accept it in 1972, after the old man died... Britain today would be a member of the European Free trade asociation, together with Norway, Denmark, etc, which would be much closer to the country's views. Or couldn't Britain become a member of the US federation? Another Connecticut?
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I encourage you to try to 'keep the faith' especially in summer-time at home it's not that hard nor do you need to be a great chef.
Things like salads with garden tomato, fresh mozzarella cheese, and fresh basil with a light dressing (ok so that's italian not french)... or cucumber salad with a dressing of goat yogurt and fresh crushed garlic (ok so that's swiss not french). Plain roast a 'organic' grown chicken in the oven with some herbs rubbed on it.... well you get the idea!
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Exactly. And while Julia is the totem, there are other books on French cooking that feature recipes that are a bit easier and less butter-saturated; Patricia Wells is a good place to start.
If you are willing to seek out good ingredients and cook them or prepare them yourself I think you can come close to some of the dishes you had in France in your home. A farmer's market would be a good place to start.
I was amused at the comment on cooking with lard in Kentucky; there are many Italian dishes prepared with lard and in fact, lard is served alone as an appetizer in Tuscany.
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Trudaine: Spot on. We have no place in the EU. We should leave ASAP.
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There is no doubt that French food is among the best in the world.
Among the reasons:
-Ingredients and their freshness
- Leisure of the dining experience
- Pride of the restaurant in its food and service. This is assured by the competitive atmosphere among restaurants.
I remember one time in our early travels to Paris stopping in at Bonfinger, a seafood bistro near the the Bastille.
A very polite hostess said she could squeeze us in for the 6 p.m. seating. I asked her would we be then rushed out when the 8 p.m. seating arrived. The maitre d' hearing my question interrupted with "Jamais!" or "Never!".
France is far from perfect but when it comes to gracious dining and related courtesy it is the best in the world.
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>At Paul they had a caprese sandwich; red, ripe tomatoes, basil leaves, slices of fresh mozzeralla on a fresh half soft baguette - how simple. Why didn't I think of that?<
Because you aren't Ialian?
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Wow, people are really fired up over this one!
I already posted but I have to say again, like some other posters, there is some VERY bad food in France. Someone mentioned Quick and Flunch and I agree 100%. I had ONE Quick burger when I lived there, and I was gagging it down. French or not, they have tons of them in France and they are always packed!
People are going to flip out when I say this, but anyone who has lived in France will agree with me on this: I lived in Toulouse, and every McDonald's that we went to was WAY better than at home. I ENJOYED Big Macs and LOVED the McFish sandwiches. I can barely stomach them here, but the meat is different there and it tastes so much better.
As for drinking Coke instead of wine? When you LIVE there, you don't JUST DRINK WINE all the time. Neither do the French. Coke is a part of life and it tastes good! And I LOVE WINE.
At McDonalds, though, I never got a Coke with my meal, I chose beer instead! Why can't they do that HERE?
Also, I wanted to comment on the everyday dinners in everyday families in France. My aunt and uncle live there (aunt is French)and they live in the countryside. Her meals are ALWAYS outstanding, but simple. She cooks from her garden and from the local markets. But there is something to be said about her skills as a cook.
We have been invited to homes to eat where they royally messed up the meal, or there was no flavor, etc. So, just like here, there are good cooks and bad ones. And yes, they do use much more prepackaged foods in everyday life than one would think. With the exception of my dear aunt!
Do you know how to make vinaigrette? It is the easiest thing, yet here in the US, we tend to buy our dressings. Vinaigrette made with some Maille l'ancienne mustard will remind me of France in a way no other food does.
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Who in their right mind nowadays would buy bottled dressing filled with high fructose syrup and who-knows-what else? It takes about three minutes to make a decent viniagrette.
And is mozzarella on bread with basil and olive oil really such a rare thing in the US? They have insalata caprese in places like Olive Garden now...
You can serve good food at home in any area of the US; you can serve bad food in France. It may be more expensive to cook this way at home in the US but it is not difficult.
I am sorry to sound so hectoring about this subject but I am really surprised by all this dissing of the US when it comes to food...there is marvelous stuff out there if you look for it, and can afford to buy it, just as in France.
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That was my point, lots and lots of people work their days...I am a very good cook, I enjoy it immensely, but I also work full time (well, when I'm not here at Fodors...<GRIN...and there are some days during the week where what is prepared at home is REALLY SIMPLE...man/woman/kind are not all that different right around the world!
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Ira (or anybody), have you read MY LIFE IN FRANCE, Julia's book (with Alex Prud'homme) that came out srecently?
She tells the interesting and sometimes funny story of the creation of MASTERING THE ART.
And, by the way, there are Americans who grow their own vegetables. We do.
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I loved the book and knew her but was surprised how she knocked the other two ladies who were the ones that invited her to join them in writing the cookbook.
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I find the food in France to be wonderful as well. How much of that is due to the amount of time I spend researching the restaurants we will eat in is a good question?
I think the difference is largely one of attitude. Here in the US the attitude of shoppers and food producers is one of cost and convenience. I usually go to the markets and grocery stores in France and am impressed by the selection and quality of products.
You can find that quality here in the US but you pay for it. Look around your communities for farmer's markets. They have good fresh produce and while the prices aren't as low as the grocery stores the extra price you pay ensures that the farmer won't sell his land for house lots. Patronize restaurants that support local food producers. Even if you don't have time or space for a garden consider a few veggies and herbs in pots. Some cities have community garden lots-ask a friend or neighbor to share the expense, work and rewards. I can a lot of what comes out of my garden. I share that with friends and family.
The kind of food we love in France is available here but here it is considered a luxury. Look at other shoppers to see what they put in their baskets and you can see what drives the market. I had a co worker who shopped once a month. She didn't buy anything fresh other than meat that she then froze.
Mitchdesj-The food in Montreal is incredible. We call Montreal-'Paris Lite". When we visit in the summer we always end with a visit to Jean-Talon Market where I load up on fruits and veggies for my canning pot. What I don't understand is why the quality of fruits from CA is so much better there? I guess it must be the attitude.
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Does anyone remember the news piece about ugly tomatoes in Florida - if not, do a goggle search - I think this shows how screwed up the food industry/manufactures are in the US. I think many Americans will settle for what's put in front of them. (And working parents don't have the time) Companies know they can slide on taste/quality/nutrition because so many Americans are cheap ($$$) when it comes to food. We've come a long way since the 70s but we stil have a long way to go.
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I, too, was surprised at her treatment of the other two authors--particularly Louisette.
I wonder if this was really Julia's attitude, or whether it would have been written differently if she had lived to complete the book.
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I'll just encourage everyone to support their local Farmers' market...& avoid the pre-packaged, preservative laden crap they sell in lots of groceries. We actually have some markets going 'organic' now which means someone is listening...
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Hi Byrd, supposedly taken from her letters and conversations?
We're lucky in Boston/Cambridge with several farmers markets.
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I forgot to post about the ham....the ham in France is to DIE FOR. I have no idea why we can't get this quality of ham here in the US. The ham I'm talking about is deli ham for sandwiches, either in a package or sliced from the butcher. Both are fantastic.
When we went back last year, my aunt had a simple lunch ready for us...green salad with chick peas, slices of ham, bread and cheese. As soon as I ate a bite of ham, I said, "IT WASN'T JUST MY IMAGINATION! It IS as good as I remembered!"
Right then and there we started "the conversation"...the one we are discussing now.
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And is mozzarella on bread with basil and olive oil really such a rare thing in the US? They have insalata caprese in places like Olive Garden now...
Yes, they might but I don't eat at Olive Garden. I have seen this combo often in salads, but had never seen it offered as a to go sandwhich from a shop. Beautiful tomotoes.
And be honest people, when is the last time you walked into your local grocery store, bought a ruby red regular size tomotoe, took it home and it tasted like heaven? Ours here taste like cardboard. Now some of the specialty tomotoes, like strawberry or grape tomatoes do have some flavor, but not your basic tomotoe unless your locat market is a Whole foods.
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I love the food in France. That said, there is plenty of good food in the U.S. if you take the time to be picky, and the time to prepare it well.
Part of it is to eat good food in season. One time when I was in the Loire at the end of March, I saw vegetable soup on the menu. At the end of winter, I wondered what they'd use for vegetables. Of course -- I was served a delicious leek and potato soup.
While I do not shop at Wal-MArt, I follow the retail industry. You know that organic is a mainstream trend when Wal-Mart is putting a major effort into stocking more organic produce.
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I'm finding all this drivel about the alleged superiority of European product and French cooking very tiresome.
If you want some truly excellent ham, at least as good as anything there is in Europe, then go buy a proper country ham. They are produced in many parts of the United States. Virginia and Missouri produce some of the best. Is there anyone who is foolish enough to think that there is anything actually better than a true Smithfield ham?
For years the French, and their American sycophants, sneered at American wine. But when one blind tasting after another established the quality of American wine the French finally had to concede the point. Now you will find a lot of Europeans, including Frenchmen, studying at UC Davis Department of Viticulture and Enology.
There are a large number of excellent cheese makers in the United States too. Maytag Dairy farms is universally recognized as one of the world's great cheese makers.
And while I certainly enjoy eating in Paris the fact is that there is nothing like the variety of cuisines in Paris that can be found in most major American cities. Moreover non-French restaurants in Paris generally are quite inferior as the French are very provincial in their attitudes about food and have little tolerance for unfamiliar flavors or highly spiced food. (or so the owners of such restaurants tell me).
Enough of this neurotic desire to grovel and gush. Its really quite pathetic.
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oh rillifane you are SOOO above all us plebes! I shrink at your knees
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Yes, but if you don't live in a major US city..well enough said.
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>>Yes, but if you don't live in a major US city..well enough said. <<
Enough said? I don't get it. Could you or someone else explain?
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Oh Linda...I never asked you to.
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This is just my opinion on French food. You don't have to agree with my opinion. Some do. If you don't agree, no problem.
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Sure obxgirl, the small city I live in has some supermarkets. The food, produce, meat etc. is "alright" but we do not have any store that sells fantastic food. One supermarket did start selling grassfed beef..which is so much more delicious then grainfed beef,and so much more healthier for you. I bought it a lot. Than one day the store no longer sold it..people would not pay the higher price for grassfed beef.
Our Farmer's Market is double in price for produce which would be fine IF the produce was a lot better then the "cardboard" produce the supermarkets sell. But it isn't. I have talked to people that have been born and raised in my small city and they call the merchandise at the Farmer's Market a ripoff. There are some small stands out in the agriculture areas, but it takes at least 30 minutes to drive to them.
If one lives say in San Francisco..one has an abundance of beautiful and truly tasty food to buy..overpriced but still good at the Farmer's Market at the Ferry Building and reasonably priced at the Civic Center.
But there is not much to brag about food wise where I live in spite of the fact the population is getting close to 100,000.
I can't help but compare the food I can buy in my small city to the food that my friends can buy in their small city..which has a population of 36,000.
I am sure not being Anti-American..I just wish we had better food.
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Right now I'm reading a book by a French Woman and recently translated to English, "Market Day in Provence."
She says that alot of the food in the markets are industrialized, grown under plastic and not always less expensive than shopping Auchans and other places. The author was director of studies at L'Ecole des Hautes E'tudesen sciences sociale. The book has caused quite a stir in the food community especially chefs.
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I am basque and live in the (Spanish)Basque Country, where food is a true religion for most people, and it makes us very proud of it (in fact, in such a tiny territory there is the highest concentration of three Michelin star restaurants in the world). I´ve also lived in the US (WI) and in France, and I think that the main difference is cultural. Food did not seem important to my friends in the US. Chicken and pasta, as a rule, even in weddings!!. If salads, the dressing was always artificial. Olive oil, never ever. For special occassions, chicken (here we consider it as a low class meat, hardly found in a restaurant menu). If cheese, just cheddar (funny enough, they held a World Cheese Championship where all participants were American and all cheeses were...cheddar). Guess which country and what cheese won!
Here, as in France, we like to spend hours cooking. We held cooking championships. We love to know about other cuisines. Cooks are friends, not competitors, and they share their secrets. Men cook a lot (we have the "txokos", where men spend hours cooking and women are always guests). We use olive oil, never butter. Ingredients are always fresh. And, above all, we like and are proud of cooking.
Obviously, there are exceptions to this rule, but just a piece of information: there are just three?McDonalds in the whole Basque country (2.200.000 people).
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And you have the best seafood in the WORLD, bar none, in the Basque country (and Galicia) of Spain.
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toulousaine, I've found a good ham at a italian deli, it reminds me of the jambon de parmes that they use in France, here they call it cooked prosciutto, it's a very large and narrow piece. I find it readily in montreal but when I lived in Denver, the best deli in town argued with me that it did not exist.
I find that by using high quality olive oil and fresh herbs and also high quality vinegars and mustards , you can infuse a taste of europe to almost anything.... simplicity is key.
heavens, invest in a few simple cookbooks of provence cuisine and you'll realize we have everything at hand to duplicate it.
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While I don't dispute the notion that small local farms have shorter supply lines and thus don't incur as high transport costs, there are other factors to be considered, and so-called decadence and greed are the least of them.
Sunshine - too little: Tomatoes have a hard time germinating without a sufficiently long solar season. Example: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada: latitude 53 N. (I wonder if the area around London, England - latitude 51 N, has the same problem - I certainly don't recall seeing tomato growing fields in England.)
Or: Newfoundland, Canada - an extremely foggy place; they had a spectacular failure a few years back with a major greenhouse operation (in which, at best, they could grow cucumbers - and that only with the aid of artificial lighting.) These areas will always have to import some of their produce, which means a heavy reliance on canned and frozen product. Fortunately, packaging methods are improving.
Soil quality. Bedrock where I live is sometimes almost at grade level. There's a reason why we are a region of fishermen, not farmers, as a rule. In other regions, there are other problems, most significantly water availability (which is going to be a real problem very soon in many parts of the world - including France and Britain.)
Health: Modern packaging is often criticized, but it does have health benefits. Food stays fresher longer, and some 'additives' are beneficial (like the Vitamin D added to milk which has virtually eliminated rickets).
Urbanization: Modern life as we know it would not be possible in a subsistence farming scenario, which is what used to exist beforehand. Like it or not, the world is six billion and growing - we need to be efficient, or else! It makes sense to have some farm subsidies (For example, I can understand Japan's desire to have at least some rice grown domestically) but by and large, the world as a whole cannot afford it.
Starvation: Still a problem, but modern agricultural methods have saved millions of lives. (North America has for a long time been a net exporter of grain, at very reasonable prices. Even India and Pakistan now export grain.) Before one eats well <i/> one must be able to eat at all <i/>.
Nothing imparts flavour to food like being truly hungry for it!
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Another possiblity that may be covered above somewhere, but when on vacation perhaps people have more time to really pay attention to where they eat and can take time to savor and enjoy meals.
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Nonesense! Great tasting food is possible and available anyplace. Problems: USA schools have dropped Home Ec classes. Parents are either unable to teach their children to cook or don't know how. I suggest that acclaiming French food is simply a sly way to let someone else know you have been to France. Read George Orwell and his account of working in French restaurants.
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Sue, you can get some very good tomatoes in late summer in the UK. They're not large beefsteak tomatoes, but they are thin skinned and full of flavor. Many come from Kent.
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I'm curious about the OP's background -- ethnicity, lifestyle, place of residence, etc.
Sometimes people who have little or no exposure to ethnic food will go to Europe and be wowed by the cooking, simply because they've had no exposure to it.
Now, I'm not saying the OP is some bumpkin. Just making a personal observation.
And the decline of food prep in the US is correlated with the lack of home ec classes? Gimme a break. Maybe I should tell my mother -- an incredible cook -- that she'd be som much better if only she had taken home ec. (I'll make sure she doesn't have a cast-iron pan in her hand when I say it.)
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while I prefer rillifane I must respond to GSneed. In the early early 70s when I was forced to take home ec, we learned to make biscuits with cinnamon and sugar on them (from a roll) and casseroles made from canned tuna, frozen peas and Campbell's mushroom soup. In fact, I'm sure most Americans out there grew up on Campbell soup casseroles. In France, the cassoulet is a completely different animal, so to speak. I've relearned cooking on my own.
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OP, is that me? OK, culinary background: Grew up in TX. Both parents cooked. Both from New England and when relatives came to visit they always brought fresh flounder and lobster for my Dad to cook, or local grinders from the best Italian place they could find. My Dad, frustrated in Dallas, would go to the weirdest neighborhoods to find ethnic stores to get the best ingredients for his creations. He loved to cook Italian. He would take a full day to make his spegetti sauce. We often ate out at Greek restaurants. We would drive 30 minutes for the "good" authentic Mexican restaurant, not the chain.
I traveled internationally for ten years with Pan Am, the blue ball, after graduating from college. Travelled and ate all over the world. Before Paris, Istanbul, hawaii, and Rome would have been my eating favorites.
Met DH, also loves to cook. We cook together. Own about 50 cookbooks and watch the Food Network almost every Saturday for inspiration.
On trips we LOVE to browse wine shops, gourmet shops, and local restaurants. Sushi is one of our favorites. We live near San Diego now, and love the fresh seafood there among other wonderful cuisines. We often hang out in Whole Foods and have to be very careful not to spend too much on our visits there.
We don't consider ourselves gourmets, we really enjoy the simpler approaches to food. We don't believe that you have to spend outrageous prices to enjoy a good meal or a good bottle of wine. We love to experiment and try new places and flavors, new restaurants, especially those recommended by friends. Our last trip before Paris was to wine country north of Santa Barbara where we went to numerous wineries buying wine to bring home, and falling in love with both Los Olivos Cafe and the Hitchin Post in Buellton. Hope I didn't run on too long to answer the question.
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I still think if you are a BAD cook no amount of "the freshest ingredients" are going to make you a "good cook" or your food taste "wonderful."
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mitchdesj, yes I can get good proscuitto (however you spell it) here, but not the good fresh ham like for sandwiches.
Heavens, I still believe we are right! The food in France, generally, IS better. No matter what all the negative people say. I lived there, shopped and ate daily and YOU ARE RIGHT! When my uncle comes to visit (he's American but has lived in France since the 70's) he always is amazed at how much less flavor the food has, from produce in season, to lunchmeat, etc.
As for the person who commented on the wine, I don't even think you can compare US wines to French ones. They have different qualities, different features and I love them both for different reasons. I live in wine country here in the USA and we have some BAD ones and some fantastic ones. I've also had incredibly foul wine in France and superb wine there too.
Anyone who is angry over this thread should STOP READING IT. I think this is a wonderful discussion with interesting perspectives.
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I found this discussion on the internet. It is an interview with some French people regarding the French Paradox. Here is the link: http://www.themorningnews.org/archives/personalities/roundtable_the_french_paradox.php And here is a quote from a French woman who lives in the USA:
"It is, however, true that open-air markets are popular in France, and it is customary for people to buy their produce there. The food is usually fresher and the contact with the sellers friendlier than at the grocery store. But since grocery stores are usually cheaper than marches, lots of people actually buy their produce or their meat in supermarkets.
In the U.S., marches don't exist, and butcher shops and bakeries are not common either, so the only option is really to go to the grocery store. I have been in various farmers' markets several times, but the quality was disappointing and prices were a little too high for me.
There is no cafeteria at my workplace, and I am lucky enough to work almost across from a Whole Foods market. I usually have lunch there and shop a little every day. Contrary to France, milk is pasteurized in the U.S., which actually forces you to do some shopping a couple of times a week! [French milk products are treated using ultra-high-temperature pasteurization, a process that renders them shelf-stable, unopened, for months.—eds.] I think that produce is really expensive in American grocery stores, but fortunately I found produce markets, which are much cheaper than grocery stores. That's the only way for me to eat healthy and cheap! I am still searching for a good baguette, though…"
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Pertinent...Which French food (entree, dessert, sauce) tastes better than a similar one in the USA? Any 'cook'should be able to produce a 10 omelette. Eater's preferences will require taste variations that another may not like. What do the French have to compete with Florida crabs or Wisconsin walleyed pike?
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Wisconsin walleyed pike? Sounds like the kind of dish that would see you through the week....
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Btilke - well, there's another of my fine theories ruined by an inconvenient fact! Reading your post, I remembered that the growing season can start earlier in England, owing to warmer temperatures.
But the point I'm getting to is apt - we adapt our cooking to life's realities, and for many people, that means they actually come to like canned food products and other processed food.
Example: In Hawaii, I was stunned to see five pound tins of the processed meat known variously as Kam, Spam, etc. In Hawaiian cuisine, this product features prominently, and I'll bet plenty of people there would bristle at the idea that this is not good tasting food. It's right up there with all the fresh fish and vegetables that Japanese immigrants brought to Hawaii. And my Dad spent many years adding tinned evaporated milk into his tea, because he came to like the taste during the War. And then there are people who prefer - yes! - the taste and texture of sliced white bread (marketed as 'Wonder' bread in many parts of the US) to, for example, stone-ground wholegrain bread. (I don't know how Wonderbread lovers would rate French baguettes - possibly in between, since of course traditonal baguettes are also nothing like whole grain breads.)
[Note: Toulousaine: For a time back in the 80s, long-life milk was processed and marketed by our local dairy, as an alternate to their usual product. It wasn't a major success here, being both more expensive and with a noticeably different taste than what local consumers were used to. I miss having ready access to shelf-stable cream, but otherwise don't mind the extra shopping.]
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What area of the US is that woman quoted referring to when she says that marches, butchers and bakeries do not exist in the US? No farmer's markets, butchers and bakers here in the US?
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well, scrunchy, it is true that inner city dwellers are at an extreme disadvantage in finding fresh produce and healthy foods. Groceries are scarce and the costs of good fresh food is beyond their ability to pay. For all who are interested, I recommend two very good books "Fast Food Nation" by Eric Schlosser and "Food Fight" by Kelly Brownell. They both will open your eyes to the complex problems of obesity, advertising and the politics of the food industry.
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Linda I read Eric's first book...I am in agreement with much of what he writes and I know that in some inner city areas the only fresh food at the bodegas are some poor specimens of banana, onion, plantain, etc,..all overpriced. I guess because I live in NYC I am not totally aware of the dire situation in other areas regarding food. Here in NY we have Farmer's Markets throughout the city so it is not quite so dire. One of the best concentrations of high quality food shops in Manhattan is, in fact, in Harlem which in part speaks more to the gentrification of the area than of the retailers serving the needs of the majority of residents. But we are getting away from the original subject here.....
Does anyone know what public school cafeterias in France serve to their students? Now THAT would be interesting as a predictor of eating trends in that country. It cannot be as bad as here in the US..
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ha ha, funny you should ask that, because I spent two months studying at Universite de Montpellier in the summer and the cafeteria food was disgusting. The only thing I could eat was yogurt. I kept wiring home for more money, cause we students would find all sorts of wonderful restaurants. Yes, those little sidewalk cafes with the thick chewy bread and jambon, steak frites, warm croissants every morning....
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All schools in Spain offer exclusively a menu based on the mediterranean diet, that is, veggies and fish, in olive oil. I don´t know about France, but it is probably at school where all begins...
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Which inner cities do you mean? Center City Philadelphia has a fabulous market, Reading Terminal, as well as a couple of Whole Foods. Plus places like the Italian Market. I would say they have an extreme advantage, NOT disadvantage! Portland, OR, also has numerous places to find excellent produce, meat, cheese, etc. Even Allentown, PA, has a wonderful farmers' market, which has been around for decades, that showcases many small producers, butchers, etc. Generations of families have been shopping there, long before these markets became fashionable (and unlike Lancaster's market, this one doesn't do double duty as a tourist attraction) http://www.fairgroundfarmersmkt.com/mkt_merch.htm
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All I know is that entire time we were in Paris (and France for that matter) we did not run into an Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Ihop, Chile's, Applebees, Fridays, Cheesecake Factory, Dennys, or even an Outback. We didn't run into any chains at all.
It appeared to us that these were all Mom and Pop type restaurants, cafes, brasseries, sandwich shops, boulangeries, whatever their particular shop was, and that each place, if they served prepared food had a chef who takes some pride in the stuff that he/she puts out for people to eat everyday and does not want to be just like the cafe across the street. There seems to be some pride in their individualism and quality.
Again, that was just OUR observation of the food in Paris. Funny, it was our friends observation too, and they could care less about food. They like to eat it but don't go on about it. Except he is still trying to recreate his fabulous vegie plate...
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Author: AnthonyGA
Date: 05/17/2006, 12:00 am
"It's not imagination that French food is generally better than American food; it is due to a number of factors, but they add up to a higher standard for food among consumers. For example, a theme restaurant with really bad food can survive indefinitely in the U.S., whereas any restaurant with bad food in France will go out of business fairly quickly, no matter what wonderful theme it has."
AnthonyGA, in general I agree, but then how do you explain the old bouillon "Chartier" with its "historical" theme and terrible quality food. Also I enjoy sandwiches in Paris, especially those made by Cosi, but to my taste I prefer the classics from several good NYC delis. I think we also tend to buy into the small French family farm from a generation or so ago; France is the largest agri-business in Europe and most of the product is grown on huge "company" farms where pesticides are not unknown. Don't get me wrong, in general I find the level of quality of product and cuisine superior in France and Italy than in the U.S., but I think we may tend to over romanticize and generalize.
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I won't eat a day old bagel - I only buy a fresh bagel made that day. In Whiole Foods I never purchase the pre-prepared gourmet food - it's not fresh. When in Paris, Oaxaca, Rome, etc - I was amazed at how fresh, as in just made, so many food prodcuts were. I get the sense that many Americans will eat "day olds". A sense of place is so simportant yet in this day of globalization so many products are developing a uniformed taste. A tomato from Florida should taste different than a tomato from New Jersey or California - it's about terroir.
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ekscrunchy--In reference to school cafeteria food, you should read "On Rue Tatin," one of the ubiquitous American-in-France books (in this case Normandy). In it she describes the gourmet lunches provided at her son's elementary school.
While it goes without saying that one can find good food in the U.S., I agree with Heavens that things taste better in Europe. "Delicate" is the word that comes to mind. The light, almost bright orange tomato sauce on a frutti di mare in Lugano--like nothing I've ever been served in the states. Or the egg and tomato sandwiches you buy on Paris street corners? It's all about the lightness of the baguette. What about the pale green, tender lettuce on a tuna panini in Italy? What American sandwich maker would go through the trouble to procure an ingredient like that? So I do think, generally, Europeans generally take more pride in what they serve.
One thing that is so much more delicious over there is beer. There are simply no words to describe the light, fresh, yet flavorful nature of European (Swiss, Czech, Italian) beers that, maybe with the exception of some microbreweries, is simply missing in the U.S.
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i agree with rillifane. this thread is full of hyperbole both ways. as usual, with these american europhile love-fests, it just keeps getting piled on thicker and thicker until it becomes pure fantasy.
france does have some of the best food in the world but to compare the best french food with the worst american food is a useless exercise. it's funny to see people acknowledging that there is some good american food but that it is "too expensive". maybe when you shop in markets in france, you don't notice the cost as you are on holiday or because it is in a different currency. if you supported those who produce higher quality products in lower volumes at home, you would contribute to raising the standards. but, in fact, few people are willing to pay more for something grown or raised locally. and if you did support said producers, you would not be complaining here.
there is plenty of good food to be had in the US and i really have no idea why people get such pleasure in exaggerating the gap between french and american food. my only thought is that they perhaps want to create an air of "look what you are missing" to their less travelled friends...that insulting..."you haven't lived until you've had ____ in france".
perhaps if you travel more, you will learn to look at things with more of a sense of reality and appreciate what you have at home. there are many things that i miss from my time living in the US. it was always quite easy to get fresh, high quality food...and i was always willing to pay more for it.
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Man, how can you miss German beer on that list, you might get strung up for that by true beer lovers (Swiss beer, blah, German beer good). Mass produced American beer crap.
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His sansman,
Probably because it's been 10 years since I was in Germany. I'm sure it belongs right at the top of the list!
Well, maybe after Czech beer. I'm getting misty-eyed remembering it...
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For the most part, we are all talking about the food available in Paris or other cities or towns that we are likely to visit. But if we are talking about food available in "inner cities" I wonder what the food choices are in the markets of the banlieue or in the outer suburbs of Nancy, for example....are there great markets and super-fresh choices available to those residents?
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<<inner city dwellers are at an extreme disadvantage in finding fresh produce and healthy foods>>
Disagree! Or at least it depends what city. Here in Seattle we are blessed with loads of fresh and healthy options. Heck you can buy shares at an organic farm and they will bring boxes of produce to your door each week. There are large numbers of neighborhood weekly farmers market. Decent bakeries and butchers abound. Not to get started on all the various ethnic food easily found. Oh and the fresh fish in season right now.
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All I can tell you is our experience in Bayeux, don't know if that is a good example, but we found that the food in that small town was pretty much the same as in Paris. Small shops, small restaurants, Mom and Pop places with excellent food. DH and I would take walks at 6 in the morning and always find little bakeries with very fresh rolls, croissants, bread and busy making sandwiches for the day. It is colder in Normandy so there wern't very many outdoor tables as in Paris, unless they put them out in the summer.
there is plenty of good food to be had in the US
I didn't say that we don't have plenty of good food in the US. But the masses dictate the quality and with all the mediocre chains popping up all over our landscape, it appears that our taste for food is different.
And I didn't even mention the "fast food" places. We have a need for those just like Paris does. IMO. Cheap, quick, fills you up... Even I love a good In and Out burger now and again. But I will not eat food and spend the money for food in an Applebees or Dennys. Maybe if I hadn't eaten in a few days. Is this the worst of American food? Not sure. I just know there are a lot of them. More and more, each day. Somebody's eating there.
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Because the French eat their food with wine and Americans (we) eat our food with sodas.
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Actually there are many wonderful American beers now. Walk into just about any liquor store in the USA and you'll have your choice of dozens of excellent American beers of all varieties.
Yes, mass-produced American beer a pretty much tasteless, but there are plenty of options readily available these days.
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Heavens...home here in Greater L.A., I can match any meal I ever had in France at less cost, and equally enjoyable ambience. Lets not minimize the "vacation psychology" of it all...I love France where I've been more than a dozen times, just as I love Italy, and on and on...but I can also make the same introductory statement above substituting NYC, Boston, Chicago, San Fran, etc., all cities where I have dined very, very well.
Stu T.
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"perhaps if you travel more, you'll learn to look at things with more of a sense of reality and appreciate what you have at home"
Umm, this is a non sequitur for me.
I HAVE travelled a great deal, both for business and for pleasure, both internationally and domestically.
I do LOVE, not just appreciate, what I have at home - all this California sunshine, great local produce almost all year round and when winter comes, we get the wonderful fruits and vegetables from South America and Mexico, terrific chefs at great restaurants, particularly in San Francisco, but all over California.
AND I am an In-and-Out Burger junkie.
BUT... food tastes better in France - and Italy - and Germany - and the Czech Republic (holy smokes, have you tried their river trout?)
AND, food tastes better in Bangkok - and Beijing - and New Delhi.
I try, while at home, to go with organic foods purchased from smaller, local grocery stores like Cosentino's, Lunardi's, and from Trader Joe's. Even so, and with the best olive oil from Europe and Irish butter, my dishes do NOT turn out the way they do in Europe. This is, of course, not the fault of the food, but mine and mine alone.
"Terroir" has a lot to do with it. There is organic farming and there is organic food. The two are different. Organic farming preserves the land. There is even a method of organic farming known as "French intensive". The WAY farmers farm has a lot to do with the way the food tastes.
Another difference is that already mentioned: industrialized farming, where tomatoes are picked green, then infused with gas to make them turn red - all of which processing makes for cardboard food. Not all processed food is cardboard food. I happen to love the frozen baby peas from Trader Joe's; they are always SO sweet and tender.
Finally, the cooking. I do believe that Americans don't take pride in their cooking as much as Europeans do. There's nothing like going to a fancy steak place and be served with a divine steak, only to bite into some dusty vegetables and know that those vegetables haven't been washed! Ye gad!
JMHO. Have a great weekend, all. Hope you will have a divine dining experience this weekend, wherever you live! Me? I'm off to see an East European friend of mine who is going to cook a superb East European meal with local California produce.
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I just lost my post...it was good too!
Quickly, I just want to say that where I live, we don't have the fortune to have a decent famers market. Ours is a total joke. There is nothing of value there.
We also have a butcher shop, which has inferior meat and does not sell deli meats. I can get a much better steak or roast at Safeway or Albertsons.
We don't have a bakery, unless you call a donut shop one.
I have YET to find a bread in the USA that is comparable to a baguette in France.
I can drive 3 hours each way to the Portland Farmers Market, but I think that would be a little excessive each week.
I have Trader Joe's if I drive one hour each way. Otherwise, my choices are Safeway, Albertsons, Fred Meyer and some smaller grocery chains that are not good.
But addressing the beer situation, because I live in the PacNW, I cannot say that France has any beer to measure up to our microbrews. I have never been to German, so I am not referring to their beers. Kronenberg, Amstel and Heineken are right up there with Miller and Bud, to me.
I, too, appreciate the local specialties of our region and I think that we have some ingredients and foods that France just doesn't have and I missed those when I lived there. Mostly, I missed Mexican food.
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easytraveler--you reminded me of my first taste of cooked mushrooms in the Czech Republic. All I can say is, I never had a mushroom before or since that tasted so intensely, so divinely mushroomy!
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My experience goes like this :
US produces a wider variety of food than France.
There are some serious issues with US use of pesticides, hormones, etc that are banned in Europe.
There is excellent food available in US. But, it costs much more than it would in France.
The reason is that the majority of US citizens aren't prepared to pay for quality food, or spend time preparing it.
The supermarket chilled ready meals, McDonalds, etc are increasingly becoming established in France. This could be a future threat to the French foodie culture ?
BTW, we try to grow our own, or buy from local producers.
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If you Fred Meyer carries bread from Grand Central Bakery in Seattle--get it! Even Pavarotti said he considered their Como Bread the best he's ever had (personally, I like the Yukon Gold even more, but who am I to argue with Pavorotti?)
If you want to taste the best mushrooms in the world, come to the Pacific NW in Sept.-Nov. and try some fresh chantrells! OMG!
But still, I agree with Heavens--food taste so much better in France (and Italy!)
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artlover, I've never seen it there, but I'll look again. (Would it be on a "bread cart" type thingy?) I've seen from from San Francisco there. Thanks for the tip!!!
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On ham: this months issue of Harper's magazine has a fascinating article about the current state of hog farming in America. Our hams aren't as good because we've bred hogs to stand in one place, gain muscle weight quickly and produce the lean meat we think we want (the other white meat...) Unfortunately, they're easily stressed and the stress means that their muscles have high levels of acid. Makes for bland, watery meat w/ poor texture. Yuck.
So some of our food is quite different.
But alternatives can be found in some markets and I wouldn't trade my blueberry pie or grilled Alaska salmon for anybody's crepe.
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Does the article talk about the fantastic pork here in the US from Berkshire breed pigs?
I wonder if many of the posters raving about the superiority and integrity of French foodstuffs have ever paid a visit to one of the huge chain supermaarkets in that country; in many sections of these stores the things on offer are also shot with preservatives and sugar, and made by the same mega-brands as the junk on the shelves here in the US. I am not talking about the small markets in Paris but about the mega-markets that you can find on the outskirts of many French cities and large towns. These stores are always crowded with people buying lots of junk and prepared products.
I am not disagreeing with the fact that French food is wonderful, but shopping at small markets and purveyors and eating in restaurants may not give you the total picture of what is on offer, and what is purchased, by a great many French households.
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I agree with Rufus.
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ekscrunchy, I have indeed shopped at the hypermarches, my favorite one being LeClerc. The quality of meat is still there, only you have an enormous selection. Yes, you can find more processed foods, but that is because you have about 20 times the options available.
Yes, French people DO buy junk and prepared foods. This is the 21st century. They are not all living in the Middle Ages anymore.
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yes, it's on the bread cart--comes in a paper bag with the name of the different kind on it.
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Wow, this thread is a long one, but it deals with one of my favorite topics (food), so I will eventually get through each and every comment.
I'm American and (perhaps) I've been lucky to have spent most of my life in two pretty good food cities (NYC and Boston) and some time in not-so-good (nameless) food cities, but I simply refuse to believe that 99.9% of residents in the lower 48 don't have access to decent, quality food.
Absolutely everyone has access to the basic ingredients of good, home made bread and home made macaroni and cheese, excellent potatoes, stews, soups, homemade pie and tart crusts, locally caught fish, and grilled meats. We can all get locally produced poultry or locally hunted game. Almost every state has a home-grown cheese industry and locally produced wine, beer, or spirits base. Everyone has access to the making of an excellent salad with olive oil and a dash of balsamic vinegar, a little minced garlic and teaspoon of dijon mustard, mixed greens (NOT iceberg "lettuce"), a few decent black olives (NOT from a can) and a handful of walnuts or golden raisins. The problem with people who complain about poor food in the US is that they lack the industry to produce a quality meal on a regular basis.
The average Frenchman may need to go to the marche every day, which is a labor to some extent. Most Americans buy their food weekly at the grocery store, which is much easier and convenient, yet they fail to capitalize on that added convenience with a bit of extra ingenuity and labor in the kitchen. They'd rather be blackberrying or driving Justin and Sienna to soccer practice (or blackberrying while driving Justin and Sienna to soccer practice) rather than teaching them (by example) some quality of life lessons.
Too many Americans replace meals with frozen entrees or takeout pizza or over-salted deli meats and bad bread. I grew up in a house that never saw an underboiled piece of asparagus or a stalk of brocolli that didn't come slathered in fake boil-in-a-bag cheese whiz. But when I moved out of my parents' house, I took to cooking and really invested time to understand what makes a good meal and what doesn't. I probably spend no more than 10% more than my siblings do on their daily food budgets, but my diet is healthier and more satisfying to me and I would feel very little hesitance if asked to cook for Eureopean houseguests.
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They'd rather be blackberrying or driving Justin and Sienna to soccer practice...
in france, it is pretty much the same. many of the trends just hit the US earlier. french people care less and less about making home cooked meals and they have less and less time to do so. both parents often work. just as in the US, french parents appease their children with trips to mcds and video games. parents are busy on their laptops.
a visit to a french supermarket shows that the ratio of space dedicated to fresh food vs. tinned, frozen or boxed is roughly the same as in the US or the UK.
whilst the image of a french man or woman with a freshly baked french bread under one arm and a basket full of fresh vegetables and fish in the other is an endearing image, it is far from reality for the majority of french people.
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All I could think of at first is the delicious pies you could create from the blackberries you'd have picked.
I'm definitely behind the times...
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I can only reiterate the point that a universal standard for taste (better, inferior, whatever) probably doesn't exist. For example, who is anyone to insist that Spam/Kam doesn't taste good to those who enjoy it? Ditto for sliced bread, mass-bottled beer, etc. etc. It's like those discussions about what makes for a 'decent' hotel.
Of course it may well be impossible to find the exact reproduction of a given French food in the US or elsewhere. But that's exactly the point - if you can't find a similar product, surely comparisons of taste are pointless?
What would people here say if someone from Hawaii came back from France saying: "the culinary situation was hopeless. I couldn't find decent poi anywhere? Aside from the fact that it is likely difficult to find poi of any kind in a great many places, let alone France, the implication that a universal standard of decent taste for it is ridiculous. [Note to the puzzled: Poi is a concoction made, if memory serves, from taro root. I thought it had a pretty colour, but alas, to me it tasted like flour paste. That said, I'm not about to suggest that that means, per se, that it is somehow 'crap' or inferior-tasting food. I'm certainly not going to suggest same to those in Hawaii who are entranced by this dish.)
Meanwhile, my guess is that said person would immediately be the target of the usual condescending sermons about how one should have stayed home (a favourite slur) if one-isn't-going-to-appreciate- differences, or bother-to-seek-out-the-right-places-to-go. To their insistence that "I just couldn't find anything to compare with the food from....." I guarantee, that there would be multitudes here descrying the rigidity and provincialism of the person making such claim. Not that I'm endorsing such rude responses, but I am annoyed by the double standard.
Those here who are gardeners have probably learned that the best garden is one that is planted with vegetation suitable to the soil and the climate. So too with cuisine - the 'best' cuisine is the one that deals with the realities of local availability and of one's budget.
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Sue_xx_yy I really liked your post. I agree with you "the 'best' cuisine is the one that deals with the realities of local availability and of one's budget. " That varies from town to town, city to city and state to state, etc...
Liam, have you been to France recently? The French are more addicted to their cell phones and sending "textos" (text mess in france) than Americans! They were ahead of times on that, in 2001 I was shocked at how many people had cell phones than here. That has changed here, now we have just as many, but I'm talking about 5 years ago.
And they average French couple raising kids are NO different than the average American couple raising kids. In fact, French kids are being carted around much more than American because they don't have a school bus system and they are in school longer hours and then they have tons of extra curricular activities.
No, we can't go by the old stereotype anymore. These are modern times.
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Quite right about the poi situation. In a similar vein, I once took a lovely young lady from Houston to Paris. She complained that French food was too bland and lamented the absence of a decent place to get chili.
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You cannot get a decent Ruby in france for love nor money.
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Toulousiane: "Liam, have you been to France recently? The French are more addicted to their cell phones and sending "textos" (text mess in france) than Americans! They were ahead of times on that, in 2001 I was shocked at how many people had cell phones than here. That has changed here, now we have just as many, but I'm talking about 5 years ago.
And they average French couple raising kids are NO different than the average American couple raising kids..."
I didn't mean to imply that the French are less techno-advanced or that their lives are all about cycling down cobblestone streets with loaves of baguette under their arms. But the fact remains that French (and most other European) people invest more time and effort in the quest for quality than their counterparts this side of the Atlantic.
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One word: FAT.
Any French chef will tell you that Fat = Flavor.
Americans are obsessed by "Fat-free" and "Low-fat" foods... hence, they are flavorless.. Add some butter or bacon fat & see how the flavor improves.
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thoughtfully said. I agree with you.
..why anything has to be "better than" all the time...? Lobster or steak, which is "better"? ...beauty is in the eye of the beholder or, on the tastebuds as the case may be.
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A political equilibrium approach to trade liberalization in developing countries
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adjustment loans Africa analysis Appendix BESD binding Bocconl University budget constraint budget surplus Centro Studi Centro Studl Luca CEPR coefficient conditional aid conditionality convex function crisis indicators curve debt decision to liberalize developing countries DEVELOPMENT CENTRE 21 Drazen economic crisis effects empirical Exports external shocks fact Finance Statistics Frances Stewart funds Ghana government's higher values importable incentives individuals interest rate shocks INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT CENTRE International Monetary Fund level of utility lower macroeconomic Milan multilateral agency negative October optimal Oxford University political acceptability constraint political support basis political variables population Probit problem PROPOSITION protectionist regimes Queen Elizabeth House real interest rate regressions relative price Rlccardo Rodrik September 1990 shift significant solution Structural Adjustment STUDI LUCA D'AGLIANO Tanzania tariff level terms of trade trade liberalization trade policy trade reforms trade regime U.S. dollars University of Brescia University of Oxford urban elites World Bank