text:
This thread follows on the last two one year threads, describing the political, social, economic, meteorological and psychological environment in Turkey and posting frequently to report changing terms and conditions as they reflect on the safety, purse and comfort of the traveler to Turkey.
I also respond to questions, occasionally give tid bits of information which do not warrant a thread of their own, dig out some of my older posts when the need arises and give links to interesting relevant sites or some personal ones.
I change my profile picture every few months also, thus allowing the reader to keep up with my aging process. The previous one was with my new and first grandchild. This one is with my wife at her most recent birthday.
Here's her blog with photographs from some of our Turkish trips as well as those taken from our balcony.
my blogs are also listed on her profile
The most recent blog entry is the "blue moon" which rose in all its glory last night:
To start the new edition, here are the current conditions in Turkey :
Political :
- It is a mess with no party winning a majority in last June 7 elections, The incumbent managing to stay in power until a coalition is former (seems impossible), a minority government is formed (also seems impossible) or new elections are held (highest possibility)
- In the meantime the government has taken advantage of its almost illegal power to conduct war against Kurdish Terrorist/guerilla fighters with whom they were negotiating peace and democracy until just a few months ago. The president and the PM believe that this will bring them more votes and a good majority in the coming early elections.
However, their bombing of PKK bases within Norther Iraq and even a few within Turkish borders (over 500 sorties in the last week) has brought reprisals against the Turkish armed and security forces as well as large possibly defense related construction and shows of foce on some Sotheastern region highways, making those areas of the country risky if not downright dangerour for visitors.
- This situation is likely to continue till December 2015 and may last longer depending on date and outcome of elections.
- Turkey has a majority of
Sunni moslems, 55-60 million
Alevis 15-20 million
Shiite & other Moslem sects 1-3 million
Christians (Greek, Armenian, Russian, Syrian Orthodox and others) 500,000
Jews 100,000- 150,000
Yazidis, Zoroastrians and other 50,000-100,000
Yet, of the majority of Sunni Moslems, less than 30% regularly pray at mosque or at home. This is not a very religious society, although the men and their imposed traditions have forced many women to cover their heads, arms and legs as a habit rather than as a requirement of their belief.
- There are a large number of NGOs on all types of issues including gay, LGBT and women's rights.
- There are are a huge number of Islamic charities and foundations but also a few but very significant secular educational foundations.
- It is a male dominated society but Istanbul especially has a large number of high level women professionals, CEOs and Board Members. The Parliament has less than 20% women deputies.
- Education system is poor with non-achievers teaching a rote learning based curriculum to 5-18 year olds. Public universities are controled almost fully by the Islamist government with only a few exceptions like the Bosphorus University in Istanbul, Hacettepe and Middle Eastern technical University in Ankara. There are also some decent private universities.
- Although there is a great deal of censorship on TV, some channels manage to get away with some anti-government talk shows and others with films and Series involving more violence and sex than the government would accept.
- There are approximately 100 TV channels fully supporting the government, a similar number of radios and three quarters of the national press. However the objective or opposition media have more viewers and readers.
- The Islamist government actually performed quite well for 13 years in power mostly because of the support of Saudi Arabia and some of the Gulf countries which not only sent them aid but also invested heavily in Turkey.
- However, this process keeping the Turkish Lira overvalued, resulted in decrease in domestic production and exports and a large increase in imports. Another result of this situation was higher unemployment and higher urbanization with the accompanied "frustration of rising expectations."
- Currently, the Turkish Lira having lost value, the visitor to Turkey from the United States and even from Europe will find Turkish trip a very good value even in the more expensive cities of Istanbul, Bodrum and Antalya.
- Turks are known to be a friendly and hospitable people throughout history and visitors who report on Fodors and Trip Advisor have verified this.
- The problems with the educational system, the family environment and the thousands of years of authoritarian rule in these lands have made the locals not aggressively but slyly paranoid of their neigbours, relatives, business partnes and even spouses and children.
Fortunately, this does not apply to foreign visitors where they follow the maxim, "innocent until proven guilty."
- Turks are very communicative, like to socialize and chat and can divulge rather personal information. Do not be upset because you do not have to reciprocate. Especially less educated Turkish women would love to share with foreign women.
I will write short general introductions on the geography, geology, climate, history, archeology, nature, scenery, transportation and cuisine of the country in forthcoming posts.
Today :
It is hot everywhere. Istanbul is about 90 F and humid. I am staying home and wandering if it would actually be less costly to go shopping in a mall rather than use up such expensive electricity cooling myself at home. Eser is visiting grandson just in from Cesme/Izmir trip.
Nothing very different on the TV regarding the Southeast, Syria Iraq, PKK, ISIS.
TL lost against USD and Euro again yesterday. now at 2,756 to $1 and 3.04 to E1.
Israeli and Russian tourists to Turkey down about 20% from last year, tourists from Arab countries up.
A reasonable dinner with some raki or a glass or two of wine can still be bought for %30-40 but not at any Bosphorus seaside or popular locations. I enjoy a very very cold Efes beer but only within the first three minutes of its arrival to the table, but tend to forget about it afterwards.
Turkish Kalecik Karasi grapes make quite smooth wines, merlots are also smooth and a bit more fruity. Okuzgozu is a bit more fruity and goes well with meats. Bogazkere grapes make tanini wine but keep well.
Kavaklidere, Doluca, Buzbag are old wine brands, but there are many new ones which have good vintages and types with Sarafin the best and Corbus or Corvus Bozcaada island following.
The Angora and Yakut I used to like, I do not find as good anymore. Kavaklider Selection, Doluca, Antik,Kav and DLC are still decent for cheap to medium priced wines.
I get carried away.
I will be around until September 8, then disappear for a week and be back again,
Recent ActivityView all Europe activity »
- 1 paris to london- day trip
- 2 London flat feedback wanted - yes, I'm going slightly crazy!
- 3 Browsing Barcelona
- 4 Tips for first trip to UK
- 5 Three nights in the Italian Riviera: hiking in Camogli with day trips
- 6 Pubs showing NFL football in London?
- 7 How many miles is a good 'walking tour'?
- 8 May Germany, Switzerland, and Iceland
- 9 Sampling Some of Sicily and Bits of Italy Beyond
- 10 Buying a motorcycle in Europe??
- 11 Italy 9 Days in December/Itinerary Help
- 12 Paris, Normandy & Amsterdam with College Graduate
- 13 Help With Itinerary By Train: London, Paris, Nice, Florence
- 14 ROMA Pass inclusions. - 3 days in Rome
- 15 Spain December/ January 2018/19
- 16 Portugal
- 17 Pisa Central to Hotel Kinzica at late night.
- 18 Looking for Good Eating in Valencia
- 19 London - Paris - Amsterdam trip planning help
- 20 GTG Paris December 2017
- 21 10 Days in Austria
- 22 Rome, Tuscany & Umbria
- 23 Laurel and Hardy in Drag Do Bangkok
- 24 Feedback on where to go (23 Mar to 8 Apr 2018)
- 25 Lisbon neighborhoods
Visiting Turkey for Fun and Adventure, Oasis or Chaos
This thread follows on the last two one year threads, describing the political, social, economic, meteorological and psychological environment in Turkey and posting frequently to report changing terms and conditions as they reflect on the safety, purse and comfort of the traveler to Turkey.
Report Abuse
on for the new ride
Report Abuse
Signing on...
Report Abuse
Thanks, very interesting!
Report Abuse
Thank you as always. The people are extraordinarily friendly and ready for a joke. The food is sensational and the sights are varied and seductive. It became one of our favorite countries that we have visited.
OC, you are not getting older, just your pictures. Say hello to your family for us.
Report Abuse
Am staying tuned
Report Abuse
Thanks for the update and congratulations on the arrival your new grandchild.
Report Abuse
signing in here too.
Are you sure that there is no picture of you in your attic, OC, which gets older every year while you remain the same?
Report Abuse
Thanks for this, OC! Yes, nice picture.
Report Abuse
I just looked at your photo. You look like the maitre' d at your favorite manti restaurant.
Report Abuse
As I recall, you are not a fan of the restaurants in the Sultenahmet Area... But our first night arriving at dinner time after an overnight flight from Chicago, I'm sure we'll be too tired to go too far from the tourist area. I'm wondering if you could recommend someplace close. We're staying at the hotel Hotel Amira, but don't mind walking a bit. Casual but authentic is what we're looking for. Thanks
Report Abuse
Check Sarnic restaurant. It has been many years since we ate there but it continues to get good reviews on TA and a TA friend Gone to the Dogs loves it. This is not that close to your hotel.
A restaurant that has always been popular and is closer to your hotel is Balikci Sabahattin, where you may be required to get a fixed menu of too many plates of starters (meze) and side dishes plus fish for a not very cheap price.
I think that you could try the hotel Amira restaurant or House hotel suites and spa restaurant nearby after a tiring flight or any nearby simple place which offers pide and kebap to good effect also.
You can also start walking towards the Sarnic, checking the places you see on your route and stop at one that you like or continue if none look good. This walk will give you good sense of your location vis a vis the Blue Mosque, Hagia Sophia and Topkapi Palace and their grandeur at night.
Report Abuse
Thanks for the suggestions.
Report Abuse
In the Western half of the country including Cappadocia and the Black sea Coast there is no change regarding safety.
Southeast and East is getting worse with open skirmishing between security forces and the PKK. Unfortunately the armed forces and the police are acting like occupational forces at a colonized country.
Also unfortunately United States wrongly considers the Turkish government action against PKK as self-defense and gives its blessing, not realizing that the local population needs to be defended against the Turkish government activity more than against terrorists.
We will be flying to Antalya early September for a four day stay at a resort with our DD and SIL from Chicago, who will arrive in Istanbul before. And we are not concerned about safety. (the kids will have an additional 5 days after that in Athens and Chania, Crete by themselves after giving us the four day Club Med holiday as a birthday present)
Vegetables and fruit are still cheap in Turkey but meat has become twice as expensive as European averages. Restaurant prices are moving up fast but not for vegetarians.
Hot humid weather has hit Istanbul badly these days. Today it is about 91-92 F with 80 humidity.
I was out shopping at Metro (like Cosco) yesterday dazed by the heat and made some stupid purchases like 100 packs of different size trash bags but forgot to pick up the sea bass which was on sale and which we were going to grill last night. (but did not forget the fresh lemon grass, coriander and ginger for the sea bass marinade or the arugula for the salad)
Construction of the suspension bridge over Izmit bay is moving quite fast. This will reduce driving time to Iznik, Bursa, Balikesir, Ayvalik, Izmir, Ephesus, Bodrum, etc. from Istanbul. That is, if you can make it to the bridge very early in the morning when the traffic density is still low. Expected opening will be sometime in late 2016.
Report Abuse
Will be flying to Istanbul on Turkish air Septmber 4th. Will we be meeting your kids on the plane
Report Abuse
Saving for me
Thanks !
Report Abuse
soods, that's great news. My son-in-law will be on that flight with you. Ceylan will fly to istanbul a week earlier to spend some nostalgic time with us and be spoilt some more.
You can check what he looks like from the wedding photographs on my blog. Also it is easy to recognize his walk which is like what I would visualize tiggger would do, sort of bouncy gait.
We find him a physically, emotionally, culturally and intellectually excellent match for our daughter in addition to loving him as a son.
He is sociable and pleasant.
Report Abuse
How fun for you and your daughter. We look forward to seeking out your son in law to say hello! Interesting description, love the American icon comparison! You and he are very fortunate to have each other as family, your affection for him is tangible. I'm sure he feels the same for you. Enjoy your time together...it's almost here...
Report Abuse
Thanks Soods.
The attacks against security forces are continuing.
There was also some shooting at the American consulate in istanbul last night. This was definitely an amateur move or a provocation by an intelligence agency since the shooting was with rifles and the American consulate is a fortress which can withstand missiles.
(my older DD worked as a trainee architect during its construction)
There have been some threats against Turkish government by ISIS. However, they were like the supposed bombing of ISIS locations by Turkish armed forces. Most experts agree that the secret support and hold-harmless agreement between ISIS and Turkish government is still valid despite the opening of the American airbase in Turkey to US drones and fighter planes for sortees against ISIS positions in Iraq and Syria.
The heat abated somewhat in Istanbul and is currently 84 F but with 75% humidity at our balcony at 11:15 AM.
(you can actually get this rate at couple of locations deep down the Grand Bazaar and slightly less on the street two above Rustem Pasha mosque.) Airport rates, dominated by banks, will be about 2.7 or even less. Taksim-Istiklal rates will be in between.
Never exchange at hotels, restaurants, shops. The worst is usually exchanging in your own country.
Using ATMs with debit cards, for local currency is usually subject to some charges and commissions or bank preferred exchange rates but allows you to travel with less risk of carrying cash.
At my age, and having learned of the best locations for exchanging TL into English Pounds in London, Swiss Franks in Zurich and French Franks in Paris in the Paleozoic, I still find myself tempted to carry unnecessarily large amounts of cash. Even though my cards will give me USD and Euro statements, they still charge ATM or cash advance fees.
There are some very interesting 3D replications and images of the 8-10,000 year old neolithic village of Catalhoyuk, near Konya in Central Anatolia, being prepared at an American Univerity.
I have always found Konya uninteresting and not worth a stopover except for followers of the mystic Roumi. However, if you wish to imagine civilizations before the Biblical Garden of Eden and the Flood, a village with no streets, where inhabitants entered homes through holes on the roof, Catalhoyuk is well worth a visit, especially combined with the lush valley and caves of Manazan near Karaman.
A trip that includes these sites with Alacahoyuk, Yazili Kaya and Hattusas to the North of Cappadocia and then Cappadocia itself gives a totally different perspective than one that tours the Lycian Way, Karia and Ephesus and/or Bithynia.
Unfortunately, there is very little remaining from the Celtic kingdom which lasted quite a few hundred years after Alexander the Great's invasion and then as part of the Roman Empire. But some artifacts can be found at smaller local museums at towns like Amasya or at Ankara.
The simple Penguin Historic Atlas of the Middle East gives a summary of all the various peoples, kingdoms and civilizations which once held sway on these lands and is fun to check before starting your visit.
Report Abuse
I will not call it an all out civil strife bu the PKK and the government forces appear to be close to a free for all. We read or hear about deaths of soldiers and policemen with TV coverage of their funerals and body counts of the PKK as released by the government.
There have not been any ISIS body counts at all, which probably means, if nothing else, that most places in Turkey are safe for tourists.
About two weeks ago there was some provocation against the Chinese government by the pro government media, writing of supposed bans of fasting for the Moslems of Eastern China. At that time, some Korean tourists were attacked and chased but were saved from a beating by the police. The leader of the nationalist Party, MHP, stated that his followers cannot be blamed because "there is no way they could differentiate between the types of slanted eyes"
We are anxiously hoping for a decisive strong public figure to suddenly rise up and conquer the hearts and minds of the people.
My estimate is that the timing for that to occur may coincide with the great Marmara Sea earthquake which may affect Istanbul catastrophically or not, to occur sometime within the coming thirty years according to Insurance/Reinsurance companies, geologists, and sooth sayers.
By the way, to put your mind at ease or to scare you off totally, both Turkey and Greece and the Mediterranean Sea in between with all those lovely islands, lie on some well known fault lines which can easily produce up to 7.5 or even slightly more magnitude eathquakes, some with accompanying tsunamis.
The area is usually hit by tens of small tremors every day, small enough that they are not felt by the inhabitants, due to the movement of the North African and the Asian continental shelves.
The story of the flood was traced back to large earth movements, with Atlantic Ocean shellfish fossils in tthe black sea and the depths of the Bosphorus.
In fact, a theory is that Catalhoyuk in central Anatolia and the whole of Mesopotamian culture is due to the migration of more advanced tribes from the shores of the Black Sea which was once a very large lake. The Dardanelles and Bosphorus sraits were opened up by some large upheavals and huge amounts of Mediterranean and Atlantic Ocean water started pouring down into the lake. Apparently, it took a long time for the lake to fill and since it was impossible to cross on the West and the East was very mountaineous and dangerous, people like Noah built arcs to cross to the South and take with them their tehcnological advance. The arch was one such advance. I am not sure if Piers Anthony (SciFi writer) would agree though.
Istanbul on season averages with somewhat more humidity.
Our family get together getting closer. Political solutions appear further away.
Just made Paella (no chicken) with Thai ingredients and Bulgur instead of rice. Hugely recommended.
Report Abuse
We are anxiously hoping for a decisive strong public figure to suddenly rise up and conquer the hearts and minds of the people.>>
I can think of a candidate!
Report Abuse
The 13 year incumbent AKP's leader and self-proclaimed Sultan, having lost just over 20% off their 52% of the 2011 vote in the June 7, 2015 elections, delayed as much as possible the formation of a new government and Turkey is still continuing with the pre-election government which is in the process of waging a civil war against the illegal and legal representatives of the Kurdish population of the country in addition to any and all opposition media, critics, prosecutors and judges and soldiers and police who do not support them.
The government which is supposedly discussing the possibility of forming a coalition government with one of the opposition parties, just listens to their points of view for some weeks and then moves on the next, with no results.
It seems that there will be new general elections in Turkey anytime from second half of November to June, 2016.depending on when the President who declared last Thursday that he is the de facto ruler of the country despite the constitution (and that the constitutional and other legal amendments will be made afterwards) believes that he and his party will be able to get a parliamentary majority to allow him to formalize his palace coup.
In the meantime, he suddenly changed tactics and re-started the war against Kurds with the hope of gaining the nationalistic vote they had lost to MHP and the vote of the Kurds who could be scared or bought off.
United States is paying lip service to him by not criticizing his mass attacks to Kurds within Turkey and Northern Iraq in the hope that he will stop supporting ISIS and the other Islamist groups in Turkey. But He has not done so.
This is actually good news for the traveler to Turkey, because ISIS does not pause any threats and the PKK and the Kurds are fighting for their lives and rights against the armed and security forces well aware that they need international support in this fight.
The Gulf and Saudi aid and investmet to Turkey in support of Islamist action is not sufficient to make up for the loss of international capital market trust, resulting in more Turkish Lira depreciation. Current rates are 2.87 to one USD and 3.17TL to one Euro.
All touristic areas remain safe, as well as touristic Istanbul.
Stay away from unruly groups, protests, chanting or flag waving people on the march.
Your biggest risk at locations like Ephesus, Termesos, Aphrodisias, Sardis, Xanthos, Patara, Myra, etc. is nodding offep and dreaming that your town is invaded by the Perians or Pirates or Phenicians or Hittites, whatever and that you are caught up in the battle.
If there is any increase in risk or safety, I shall immediately post here.
My recent tweet on the Middle East and one of my favorite American novelists:
Aug 8
#EWhittemore met a 3000year old man in Jerusalem
He did not know there were many of them
They had no memory
And war was their only story
Report Abuse
"the President who declared last Thursday that he is the de facto ruler of the country"
That shocked me.
Report Abuse
My trip is a few weeks away and I appreciate your continued updates!
Report Abuse
My brother and SIL will be heading for Turkey in the not too distant future. This is excellent, thank you.
Report Abuse
Another Cappadocia Festival starts this week.
This is mostly theater and visual arts with CRT SBlaise Theatre Research Association, European Union NGO Dialogue Center and local Francophile sponsorship.
All shows will be free at the August 21-23 Uchisar, Nevsehir Arts festival.
Other Cappadocia festivals and events later this year are as follows:
8.31 - 9.2 International Avanos arts and crafts festival
9.16-22 Turkmen Cuisine Festival
4th week of September. Forgotten Tastes of Goreme
October 3-6. Grape Harvest Festival
Sept 5-15 Salcano Cappadocia Bike Festival
Official web site of Salcano Cappadocia Bike Festival. ... and unique history! Life is like a non-stop festival in Cappadocia Cycling Festival! ... Registration Deadline: 2015/09/05 ..... Ahmet Enes Geçer, Turkuaz Bisiklet Kulübü - GBD, 1996. 9.
December ? Photography Competition
Politically, the humid weather seems to be fomenting the slimy mess Turkey finds itself embroiled in. (sorry about ending with a proposition in a hurry)
The USD is today almost 3 Tl. (2.98) Expected worst will be 3.2. but to get back to the 2.85-3.00 range. This is not my view. But I have always been wrong in my forecasts regarding Fx.
When working as an advisor at the Ministry of Planning of another Middle Eastern country, I played a game of investing an imaginary portfolio of USD10Mil in Platinum, gold, FS, Yen, DM and $ in my spare time (in 1980-85). I was down to less than one million within six months, without even playing the futures market.
Report Abuse
I just posted this on twitter as a general explanation of the current situation in Turkey:
"Rumor is that problems in #Turkey, former oasis of ME, are ecological & due to pathological effusions by bloated egos, henchmen & coffers."
Report Abuse
There were heavy rains in Western turkey last two days. The weather has cleared and temperatures are on the rtise again.
However, Northeastern Turkey is not so fortunate. Continuing heavy rains, worst in fifty or more years have caused severe flooding and landslides. There are at least 8 casualties and two people lost with a large number of destroyed homes.
The video on the following news portal shows the lack of risk management by the local authorities who should have closed down at least some lanes of the highway which is definitely under risk of rocks carried by tthe waterfalls created by the floods :
Events like these are why I always warn travelers to the region to take good care when driving and renting a suitable car.
Report Abuse
hi OC - I tried to access the video you describe but couldn't find the link.
sounds very scary though!
Report Abuse
Hi ann, the video disappeared from that site but i found it here :
Report Abuse
good grief, OC, you'd need to try your brakes after driving through that!
seriously, it's truly amazing that people were trying to drive through those floods.
Report Abuse
Waiting for November 1 elections.
Violence in the Souteast and East has escalated against security forces who have been bombing Kurdish insurgent bases in Turkey and in Northern Iraq.
Istanbul and all touristic areas as well as Black sea, Marmara, Aegean, Mediterranean, central stay safe.
here is something another Fodorite posted that you may find interesting :
Report Abuse
Thanks, OC - a fascinating article. I particularly liked the differing views of the locals and visitors, especially where one local complained that the arabs never tipped immediately followed by another saying how generous they are.
I see that two of the three journalists arrested a few days ago for allegedly ""working on behalf of a terrorist organisation" have been released [the British ones] but their Iraqi colleague remains in jail.
Doubtless the situation for journalists will worsen leading up to the election.
Report Abuse
Interesting article, OC. Eser and I talked about the huge number of Arabic tourists in Istanbul.
Report Abuse
Sad news:
The number of provinces and cities in Eastern and Southeastern Turkey which are dangerous and have serious warning flags have increased.
I would include Kars and Ardahan as well as Erzincan, Elazig, Sivas, Erzurum, Gumushane, Batman, Adiyaman and even Malatya as "too risky to visit" at this time, in addition to the very touristic Hatay, Gazintep, Diyarbakir, Urfa and Mardin provinces.
This is a pity, but it appears that this was the wish of the government which started bombing PKK bases in Northern Iraq and a large number of guesstimated PKK sites within Eastern Turkey, possibly hoping to stage one of three alternatives to continue to stay in power :
1. To make it impossible to hold the November 1 elections because of lack of security
2. To announce marshall law and curfews with extraordinary security measures to silence most opposition parties, criticizing media and NGOs with arrests and threats.
3. To try to appear as the only hope for peace and salvation for the Kurds who have been pinpointed as xenophobic targets by the ruling party and the President as well as the Nationalistic opposition.
Please note that, civilians and tourists not in the specified zones are not in any type of risk or danger. All PKK activity is geared towards the security forces and all security force and government legal activity is geared against open critics, the meia, the Gulen movement supporters and the opposition.
As in all countries, it is never a good idea to argue with the police or any government employee, and/or criticize them directly.
Th weather is finally cooling. We had five very hot and humid days at Kemer Club Med, West of Antalya. The sea was glorious until I hugged one of the partially sea weed covered small floatation cylinders separating the swimming and water skiing zones. Apparently, there were some tiny barnacles on it which damaged my breast and allowed the seaweed to poison the skin. It was very painful for about 18 hours until the cortisone and anesthetic creme ombination and the antihistamine pill took over. But I still wear some red scars that I proudly exhibit.
I also walked quite a bit, between the room and the beach and the restaurant, all worthy targets, A/C, sea and good food.
Ceylan and SIL took of immediately to Athen and Chania after we flew back to Istanbul. They called to say they regret we did not have all our holidays in Crete. I hope we will get another chance to do just that.
The Turkish Lira is still down, due to political uncertainty, PKK and government military activity, Chinese economy, Russian arming of Syria, over two million Syrian refugees in the country (about two hundred thousand on the move towards the Western borders with the hope of making it through Bulgaria, Greece and other countries en route to Germany.)
Chick peas with lamb and okra in olive oil awaits. Take care and happy travels all.
Report Abuse
Sorry to hear that the situation has deteriorated, OC. I feared that it might. The plight of the refugees doesn't seem to get any better either; the ones stuck in or around Hungary seem to be particularly unfortunate.
These are indeed interesting times.
Report Abuse
I see the UK Foreign Office has added a couple of new orange provinces to their map - https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/turkey
I've missed out on Turkey this year, but getting my 25-year-old BMW prepared for a mega tour next year, thinking of getting over to the north-east and Georgia and Armenia. I haven't been to Van since '86. Would also like to go to Nakhchivan but I'm not sure if that's possible for foreigners on the land route from Turkey.
I certainly want to have a look at some more Urartian sites, including the Şamran water channel - http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/channel-built-by-urartian-king-to-serve-van-tourism.aspx?pageID=238&nID=69710&NewsCatID=375
Report Abuse
"A logic of war has been put into place that makes us nostalgic for the days of martial law and the 1990s" - HDP minister, Ali Haydar Konca.
I remember this saying from the old days - "the army will sort it out". I'm wondering if there is still this muttering amongst the general population? I guess one can't say they were the good old days.
In '82 I was hitch-hiking along the south coast from Anamur to Tarsus and got a lift from a man called Evren, we were waved through all the checkpoints with no problems!
Report Abuse
I hope things improve politically and physically.
Report Abuse
OC, I want to THANK YOU for this and your previous threads which I've followed over the past year. My husband and I just spent two weeks in Turkey, spending time in Istanbul, Cappadocia, Ephesus and Selimiye on the Bozburun Peninsula.
By the time I boarded the plane to Istanbul I was exhausted and a little stressed out by the "are you crazy" looks and bad information I received when I told friends/acquaintances I was going to Turkey. My mother begged me to go to India (????) instead lol. I chose to trust you though with your up to date information and we had one of our best trips. The people were incredibly friendly, the food delicious and we felt so fortunate to see so many amazing and different areas in Turkey.
So once again, thank you for your valuable information and updates!
Report Abuse
wtm003, thank you very much for voicing your appreciation. It definitely motivates me to continue.
Of'course, I also just enjoy writing, but my style on these threads is very different from the pretentious and apophenic stuff I spill out sometimes on my blog, sometimes on my Amazon reviews and mostly on some of my tweets hoping that some of it will achieve Koan status.
We are at the end of a five day stint in Iznik, to return to a colder and wetter istanbul from an also cool and wet Iznik tomorrow.
Eser set her GSM to wake at 3 AM so that she could get up and photograph the blood moon. Well.....she did wake up...... But does not remember if she even dreamt of shooting the eclipse or the red moon. I told her that it would have been useless because the sky was overcast anyway.
There are possible problems with the upcoming elections, especially in Kurdish provinces where the HDP won by a landslide on June 7. AKP is attempting some tricks to interfere with the voting.
Turkey is starting to make an about face in relation to Syria after possibly some serious admonishment from Putin and Obama. So, hopefully, war drums are quiet.
The number of Syrian refugees in Turkey estimated at close to two and a half million. Some Southeastern cities have a bigger Syrian population than Turkish. About forty thousand Syrian kids have started regular schools established for them and possibly a similar number are getting unofficial education or training. They are also getting some preferential treatment for entry to free university education at public universities.
The melancholy of shorter and darker days descended on us rather suddenly, but Istanbul especially has a special feel to it during these days, if in nothing else but the brightness of the Bosphorus, visible from many different vantage points and the lively music and good food and drinks of interestingly lit restaurants, cafes and bars with the always busy but possibly depressing streets.
No safety issues for the traveler in addition to those mentioned earlier.
Tourism income down only 3.8% from last year.
Turkish Lira still on the down swing, so shopping is a good deal for most things and not only spices, Iznik tiles, pashminas, Pasabahce glass, carpets, towels and local musical instruments.
Report Abuse
OC, just saw this thread. Thanks for continuing it. I definitely plan on following along!
Report Abuse
OC - a friend of mine here in Cornwall stayed up with her family to see the blood red moon, but we didn't manage it - the thought of staying up until about 3am and then having to get up for 6.30 was too much for me to contemplate.
You remind us OC that there is a large gap between the number of Syrian refugees that Turkey is having to deal with and the numbers that we are contemplating taking, and making more fuss about. I cannot imagine what the drain on resources must be like to have to cope with all those extra people. As you say, schools, training, universities, plus housing,roads, doctors - one you start thinking about it the list is endless.
Report Abuse
Thank you so much for continuing to keep us updated - it is so important to understand what is happening from the perspective of those who live in a place. You are greatly appreciated OC
Report Abuse
Thanks so much for posting, OC. Your insights and hospitality have made a difference to many.
Report Abuse
lauramsgarden, I follow most threads on Turkey and try to respond to specific questions on each thread but do not like to make recommendations or give my own preferences unless I can tell for certain the wishes and tastes of the OP. So, I hope that you can make use of the many trip reports by the previous travelers who were gracious enough to write them and, check some of my own and make your decisions on your own, based on your own tastes and preferences.
This general thread is mainly on safety and security but gives the economic, political, social psychological and cultural background to a small extent, because they are all interconnected.
Turkey, like many other countries has a great deal to offer for many different types of travelers and different budgets and in terms of variety of adventures, historic and natural sights and mountain and beach resorts in at least four climactic regions can only be surpassed by countries many times its size.
Just recently excavations at another Roman city, Anavarza, ( http://www.39fss.com/docs/odr/Anavarza-Castle.pdf ) expected to possibly be the largest in Turkey, have reached a point where visitors may see a great deal more than the ruined walls, near Adana. A totally new destination except for hardy hikers, not yet on any tour path.
All violent government and civil protest action still in the Southeast, except for illegal "legal" prosecution against AKP opposers and critics including media and business.
There may be some additional provoked violence close to the election date on November 1. Then, there should be a lull in any action for all the sides to withdraw and regroup, although there will be loud taunts and beating on shields in all directions.
TL slightly up with the USD just below three TL.
Weather warmer, around 75-80 F in Istanbul, somewhat overcast. Quite pleasant for sightseeing.
Daylight savings time to start some days after the elections. So, you get longer daylight hours for sightseeing until November 7 or 8.
Report Abuse
Thanks also PegS and Kleeblat who has now become an old friend with her unique group of Swiss bürgers.
Annhig, I have been fighting to solve my personal refugee crisis with myriad friends of my wife and daughters and their friends, ad infinitum for so long now that I have little sympathy for municipalities and governments faced with similar prublems.
That is how and why I learned what I call "fusion cooking". It is actually the cheapest and tastiest way of feeding large groups of people from very different cultural backgrounds with little change in the main ingredients but playing around with spices and herbs.
Report Abuse
Hey OC - how are you? just wondering why your thoughts are on this rather dire article in the Atlantic. Always appreciate your viewpoint.
Report Abuse
Re that Atlantic article - I don't get the relevance of the main photo when there's no mention of the MHP.
Report Abuse
not to worry OC - I do quite appreciate all the good advice you give so freely - and we shall have to ultimately figure this out our own unique way.
and as a mother of five boys with very different tastes and eating preferences I totally appreciate the art of fusion cooking!
Report Abuse
Re Anavarza - there's an article today in Hürriyet, it looks like they've almost dug up the whole field there:
I like the comment on Wikipedia - "it is worthwhile to trace the three fine aqueducts to their sources".
Report Abuse
Hi Yestravel and Croesus also. Glad that this thread is becoming one "where(ever) particular people congregate" without smoking.
The Atlantic article is rather shallow. Tries to say too much rather incoherently and unsuccessfully. Does not really lead to that "overwhelming question" poetically or politically.
Here are the disaster scenarios :
1. The AKP using its police and intelligence strength to provoke more civil strife leading to martial law and staying in power in partnership with the security forces until it is much more difficult to get back to ny semblance of democracy.
2. The AKP somehow gets the majority to gain complete control over all the bureaucracy rather than the current almost complete control, thus banning all democratic activity including freedom of expression and allowing the judiciary to act only for itself.
3. The AKP, failing in its attempts at 1 and/or 2 above, continues to escalate violence, leading to anarchy and rise of armed ultra nationalism and/or militant Islamism with or without foreign connections.
4. In light of above, Turkey becomes another playground for the new power struggle between the West and Russia or the East.
Some of the mitigating circumstances are :
1. There is a modern, intellectual tradition which has been evolving in this region since the mid 19th century.
2. There is a strong tradition of politically and intellectually active press and its new manifestation, a very active social media.
3. There is enough current and future wealth and geographical significance to attract positive interference by the West.
Some disadvantages are :
1. The educational system which has been rapidly deteriorating with AKP (The PM stating that they wish to raise a "religious and vindictive youth"), and schools being transformed to include one million junior high and high school kids studying under an Islamic curriculum.
2. I find that my graduate students are getting less and less interested in thinking and solving problems. Their main ambition seems to make a fast buck with the least amount of brain work.
3. Turks traditionally do not trust anyone including their relatives and neighbours.
4. The peoples of this region have unfortunately learned to live for the day because tomorrows have always been uncertain and fraught with terrible danger. This may be a disadvantage or an advantage. But it also means that it is very difficult to convince them to be more ethical and hard working with future rewards. They fall prey to get rich schemes and quick returns very easily even when the lure and bait come from proven felons. (after all, the Koran says that one will be forgiven if one repents on his last breath)
5. Turks, in general, are not very deep thinkers, excelling in practical solutions for the short term. For longer term problems and issues they are terrific procrastinators and may even be born with dementia or Alzheimers (never Parkinsons)
Here's a recent quotation I retweeted :
"Do not waste energy feeling miserable today because things are bad. They will get worse. You can feel miserable then."
And here are some of my recent tweets which I shared with other friends:
Yesterday a rather outspoken columnist was beaten as he was returning home at midnight, after having been warned and threatened a number of times by AKP parliamentarians and supporters.
He did not know how to cushion himself in verbosity and delusional behaviour.
The following are my incomprehensible to many comments on the current and past political scene in this glorious country of mine:
Tweets Tweets & replies :
#Turkey has a history of #apophenic political leadership and subject peoples swayed by the rythmic voices & neck movements of those leaders.
Today I found an unused room at 3rd basement of #Capa hospital #pathology building where I will soon start doctoring cognitive dissonance.
I am also planning to doctor ethical fallacies, fellatious marital disorders, adulterous disclaimers & political S&M behaviour of leaders.
Report Abuse
5. Turks, in general, are not very deep thinkers, excelling in practical solutions for the short term. For longer term problems and issues they are terrific procrastinators and may even be born with dementia or Alzheimers (never Parkinsons)
Ha ha. I think this describes men in general (except for you, of course!)
Have a great day, OC.
Report Abuse
"solutions for the short term" - usually involving sticky tape:
Report Abuse
Again re Anavarza - I'm glad that Hürriyet makes a point of saying there are only 3 amphitheatres in Turkey. I get annoyed when people mistake theatres for amphitheatres (although there is evidence that some theatres were temporarily converted for wild animals).
I don't know where the third one is, after Anavarza and Pergamon. Apparently the reason there are so few is that the indigenous Greeks of the time weren't really into such violent Roman bloodsports.
Report Abuse
"Do not waste energy feeling miserable today because things are bad. They will get worse. You can feel miserable then." >>
not sure whether to laugh or cry at this.
probably both.
Report Abuse
There were two large explosions in Ankara near the train station where groups from four leftist labour syndicates and the Kurdish party HDP were gathering for the large Peace and Democracy meeting which was being organized by the syndicates, HDP, CHP, Turkish Medical Association, Chamber of Architects and Engineers and other major democratic NGOs.
At last count, it seems that there are close to 100 dead and twice that number seriously wounded. Eye witnesses say that there was no security on the site and the few traffic cops abandoned their vehicles and ran, while their vehicles and any pavailable private cars were used to convey the wounded to hospitals because it took two hours for government security and ambulances to reach the very central Ankara location. Apparently the security forces which arrived were geared towards putting down unrest and any protest because they were equipped with tear gas, water cannon, masks and riot shields.
The government immediately clamped a ban on the media regarding news and photographs related to the explosion. However Twitter is still open and we can get all the information.
No one from the local or central government even dreams of resigning. \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\I guess only those who have doubts about indirect responsibility would resign. The way they think, direct responsibility requires you to sit tight and fight the accusations while looking for scapegoats among the ones who were hurt.
Report Abuse
Stay away from any and all large gatherings if you are in any of the large cities where we are sure to have protests in the coming days.
The weather is good on the Aegean and Med coast. The resorts have reduced their prices. The USD and Euro go a long way in dining out and shopping, so enjoy yourself if you are sightseeing and/or on the beach.
Report Abuse
sad to hear OC,
Report Abuse
So sorry to read about this.
Report Abuse
Yes, so sorry to read this. Stay safe and thanks for your insight and your updates.
Report Abuse
I'm watching the news right now. Saddened and appalled. My best to everyone in Turkey.
Report Abuse
dreadful pictures are available to be viewed on the UK BBC website.
so, so sorry for you all.
Report Abuse
OC: my heart goes out to Ankara and Turkey.
Report Abuse
Just terrible. So sorry.
Report Abuse
I woke up this morning with the news alert from BBC, just terrible!!
Our heart goes to all Turks...esp family and folks that are harmed!
We are scheduled to visit Turkey from Nov 2 for 12 days..
I am getting email and msg from friends to cancel..
Report Abuse
Samuel, unless you are likely to suffer losses for not canceliing immediately, I suggest that you wait to see how things develop.
The British foreign office warnings are exactly like mine.
My perspective is that none of the usual suspects have anything to gain from causing damage to tourism or tourists. Nor have there been any threats.
November 2 is the day after the elections and possibly the best day for arrival in Istanbul.
If you are arriving at a resort, you should feel perfectly safe in any case.
But watch this thread and the British foreign office warnings which are more pragmatic than the American ones.
The risks in Istanbul have increased almost as much as the ones in Paris and London in the last seven months, however, the risks are related to the large modern malls and possibly football games and protests which are automatically avoided by sightseeing tourists because of the accumulation of most shistoric sites in the old town where the touristic boutique hotels are. The Bosphorus cruises are also likely to be quite safe.
I would cancel attendance at conventions, major conferences and similar gatherings in Istanbul and Ankara but enjoy my stay otherwise.
Report Abuse
Thank you for your kind words, everyone.
It is a terrible feeling and the knowledge that ignorance and evil can cause so much damage everywhere in the world in the name of religion, race, power, greed, revenge, fear and even supposedly lofty ideals is difficult to accept even at this age.
I will not allow my and your "pursuit of happiness" to be marred or hindered by these disgusting cretin. We shall all continue to travel and enjoy life and enjoy knowing of each others' happiness even if we do not get a chance to always meet each other.
Report Abuse
Dear OC,
We have cut this trip short (6 night each in Istanbul and Cappadocia, flying between cities) to pacify some of the concerns from friends and family, we have no intention of cancelling so far..
Will definitely take your advice to be vigilant, stay clear of protests and any large public gathering..
Appreciate your updates.
Thank you.
Report Abuse
I was so sad after reading the news this morning. I'm so sorry.
Report Abuse
Dear OC,
Just curious as why the day after election is the best day to arrive Istanbul?
Report Abuse
There will be meetings of the parties, some to gloat, some to lick wounds and all to plan for how to act according to the results.
Many people will be glued to the media at home or the office.
It is not likely that there will be a winner. There will be some contention about a number of seats to keep people busy.
So :
1. there will be no gatherings, riots, conferences, concerts, sports meets.
2. The security and intelligence forces will be calculating the effect of the election results on their job security, and will not be up to any tricks to provoke any incidents and draw unnecessary attention to themselves.
3. There will be no mediatic targets for anyone.
4. Traffic will be better than most week days.
5. You can strike up some interesting coversation with English speaking Turks you meet anywhere on their views re election results because they will be dying to talk.
Report Abuse
I'm so sorry, too, to read,what is happening now. My heart goes out to all. This is tragedy compounded by politics.
Imappreciate the updates as well.
Report Abuse
Sorry, I appreciate the updates as well....
Report Abuse
Dear OC, Your assessment seems reasonable and thank you for sharing it with all of us.
Let's hope for the best.
Report Abuse
Dear OC, Your assessment seems reasonable and thank you for sharing it with all of us.
Let's hope for the best.
Report Abuse
So sorry to hear the news this morning, Otherchelebi.
All my very best wishes.
Report Abuse
Heartfelt thanks for the updates, otherchelebi. Such appalling news. My thoughts are with you and your countrymen in this terrible time.
Report Abuse
Again thanks for all the messages of sympathy.
here is a speech of condemnation by the leader of HDP after the meeting of the organizers of the disrupted march earlier and the following press conference of the Primeminister.
It has English subtitles.
Report Abuse
The BBC is now reporting that the government are stating that first signs suggest that it was ISIS.
perhaps even they realised that no-one was going to believe the "blame the Kurds" line.
Report Abuse
OC I have been following the news from Ankara with a sick and saddened heart. My thoughts and prayers are with all the people of Turkey. Thank you for your ever insightful comments.
"I will not allow my and your "pursuit of happiness" to be marred or hindered by these disgusting cretin. We shall all continue to travel and enjoy life and enjoy knowing of each others' happiness even if we do not get a chance to always meet each other." - it takes courage to hold onto a vision of a happiness when things are dark - thank you
Report Abuse
After a number of new threads questioning the safety of visiting Turkey despite this thread and relating the concerns posed by close friends and relatives in the United States, I started thinking that this thread is geared more towards the experienced traveler and the globally exposed reader.
I have assumed that all the readers are up-to-date on the world political scene at least to a certain extent, have a basic knowledge of geography and maps and can at least refer to a map and locate areas of conflict, war and other types of problems.
Now, I realize that I was being presumptious. For many North American travelers, their visit to Turkey is is shouded in a mist of confusion, mystery, adventure, worry and false assumptions, frequently bolstered by well-wishing but totally ignorant advisers.
It is unfortunate that the travel planner does not google basic information about the country to be visited and compare and relate it to places and life styles that are familiar, but tries to evaluate all acquired information in isolation or in relation to regions and/or countries which have no relevance.
For those of you not offended and still reading on, here are some basic facts about Turkey to put your minds at ease, at least from some perspectives:
1. Turkey has been a modern nation since 1923 and an administratively democratic one since 1946.
2. Although most of Turkey lies in the Middle East, it has land in both Europe and Asia, is considered to be a European country politically and by all international organizationa.
3. A very large percentage of the population of Turkey is Islamic but there are also very large minority Islamic or semi-Islamic sects (as I would call the Mormons a semi-Christian sect) and smaller non-Moslem religious sects.
Modern Turkey was established as a secular state in 1923. Hence there is no mention of God or a religious book in the constitution
or any laws and regulation.
4. The Turks are ethnically very mixed up. The predominant strain is Mediterranean (a mixture of Greek, Roman, Celtic, Phrygian, Lydian, Karian, Bithynian, Phoenician,etc., followed by Central Asian. There are not many Semites (Arabs or Jews)
5. The culture is mainly a mixture of Tribal, Nomad, Feudal, Colonial, Empire,
6. Motto is "Live for today". That is why Christianity and Islam have never been followed absolutely.
7. Art and Literature have only a history of about two hundred years because they were mostly banned by the empire.
8. Foundations were established mainly to protect private wealth because private ownership was not allowed for Moslems until second half of 19th century. So all foundations were for the upkeep of mosques, which made it acceptable to the empire administartion.
9. There was no public education until the second half of the 19th century.Until then, it was all religious, and there was no training or education of instructors or teachers.
1n 1923, after the exchange of Christian population with Moslems between Greece and the Balkans and Turkey, but before the European Moslems arrived, only 7% new how to read and write, and that was the Arabic script.
The Latin script was accepted in 1928.
10. Turkey managed to stay neutral in the Second World War, was one of the first countries to enter NATO, was an active partner of United States during the Cold War, Is a member of the European Parliament, Is a signitury of most international agreements on human rights, environmental protection, etc. and is an associate member of EU.
11. Currently there are possibly 400 TV stations and possibly as many radio stations. Turks rank among the highest in Facebook, Instagram and Twitter usage in the world as well as latest generation mobile phones.
12. Western and Southwestern parts of the country are more affluent and more modern in outlook and life style.
13. The domestic political problems stem from utilization of secterian and racist attacks by various political parties based on neo-nationalistic and/or historic-religious ideas. The short-sightedness of these parties allow their leadersship cadres to make the most of old stories, tales, propaganda and lack of education as well as the now almost instinctive fear of a despotic government or a revolution confiscating everything, and fill their pockets and international bank accounts with a total lack of any thought of consequences or examples of similar leaders of the past.
14. These leaders may be stupid in terms of their future but are intelligent enough to realize that they can fill their coffers on if the country is economically prosperous. Therefore their economic administration is well trained, capable and able to handle significant sectors like exports, tourism, central bank, International economic relations, etc. reasonably well.
15. However, the leaders becoming complacent after a few years in power decide to set up the Ottoman Empire again and conduct regional relations and relations with neighbours and international partners on that basis. This leads to major issues, from indirect tampering of foreign powers in Turkish affairs to economic problems related to exports and imports.
As the reader can see, there is almost absolutely nothing in the above given information that should scare the potential traveler.
unless the traveler is considering becoming a Turkish national.
Yes, there are issues and problem for Turks who have to live, earn a living and educate their children in Turkey, but none of that applies to you.
Just do not draw the ire of the political factions or their minions by chanting in the streets, protesting, demonstrating or arguing with them. The rest is fun and games, interesting, history, architecture, nature, beaches, resorts, shopping and friendly people.
Report Abuse
OC great write up, never underestimate the ignorance of anyone fodorites included
Report Abuse
OC - the Turkish Tourist Board should be employing you on a full time basis.
Report Abuse
We returned a week ago from 2 glorious weeks in Turkey, and were so sad to hear the terrible news of the attacks. 2 weeks ago we spent several hours at the impressive Ataturk Mausoleum in Ankara, which I believe is near the site of the bombings. It was fascinating to learn of the impact of this great leader, how his vision changed the country and the culture. I had no idea, for instance, that Turkey was the second country in the world (after New Zealand) to give women the vote.
I appreciate the concise information given by OC above and his continuing first hand reports on the situation in the country. I hope that the recent events will not deter travelers from visiting Turkey, as it is a truly amazing country.
Report Abuse
Thank you for the information, especially about education. I had never heard of the Bithynians, which I will certainly look up.
Report Abuse
OC: I bow to your wealth of knowledge and ability to articulate it so well. Thanks for sharing.
Report Abuse
"refer to a map" - I would say that a map is my #1 travel item.
I used to have a very good GeoCenter map but I left it in a rental car in Antalya. They appear to be almost impossible to get hold of now. I currently use the French IGN map of Turkey, which is pretty good, it has most of the sights of interest marked.
Report Abuse
Croesus, the GeoCenter map is worth its weight in gold nowadays.
Other maps are readily available and quite useful although sights of interest change as new sights are discovered by the map makers or the archeologists or nature lovers and as we grow older and our preferences change.
For me, good roadside restaurants are terribly important and I have never found a map which shows them. For my wife, all waterfalls are significant no matter how small they are and again maps never show them unless they are designated wonders.
When I was younger, I used to love climbing among rocks and brush to reach a little known ruin, today I much prefer a cleaned out level pathway with no rocks, thistle or poison ivy, even when my imagination tries to place the ruin in an old Spielberg movie.
Further news on Turkey :
weather getting cooler and possible showers around the country. Check the weather reports.
Turkish Lira has appreciated due to source unknown USD 9 Billion entering the country in recent months!!!!! despite the bombings, uncertainty of coming elections.
Ministry of Labour corrected an error in statistics and reduced unemployment figure by One point one Million!!! in preparation for the elections????
There is a clamp on all news regarding the recent bombing and arrest of media personalities by the courts.
Eser is forcing me to see "The Intern" tonight, hoping that I may be motivated to look for a job like Robert De Niro did in the movie.
Report Abuse
OC-In your honor I started a similar topic on what foreigners should know about the US.
Report Abuse
IMD, how does it cover the bearing of arms, representation without taxation and the rise of the corportion?
Report Abuse
Sloppily. As you can imagine, there is a divergence of opinion. Please feel free to add your view. I am encouraging people not to sink to the level of Lounge. So far, it has been pretty civil and not civil as in civil war.
Report Abuse
Really interesting about the lira appreciating when tourists are considering staying away. It shows there is much that goes on that the public is not aware of.
Report Abuse
Here's the link to IMD's US thread:
Report Abuse
Weather turning colder. Forecast says we shall have a cold and wet Winter in Turkey but nowhere as cold as expected for Northern United States and Canada. We still have not turned the central heating on at our building.
No safety issues or problems for travelers.
The only warning I have is against flying with Onur Air until further information. Apparently, there is a contested ownership issue, with the Iranian government claiming ownership due to expropriated shareholdings (held through a number of Turkish escrows) of arrested and possibly convicted Iranian businessman.
It is possible that the maintenance and operations of this airline may not be up to desired safety standards under these circumstances. (my personal view)
Latest opinion polls show that despite 65% of the population exhibiting fear of the President and again 65% admitting dislike of the PM, the incumbent AKP will get possibly 42-44% of the vote and an almost majority in the House, in the November 1 elections.
Shows rampant cognitive dissonance among the electorate as well as the politicians (except for CHP and HDP speakers) who can contradict themselves multiple times in one day or even in one speech or TV talk show.
Turkish Airlines direct flight fares to Istanbul from the United States for next Summer are still quite cheap, but will start going up as more seats are sold.
Remeber that mid-May to beginning June and mid August to beginnig September are expensive because some twenty thousand or more Turkish college students will be flying between Turkey and the United States at the end and beginning of the school year.
Economy seats for second half of June and second half of July between Istanbul and Chicago were about $430 fare and $380 taxes and $820 total for DW. But we have purchase ticket in two days and it is not a flexible ticket, subject to change and cancellation penalties. I will not admit that I may be on the same flight in business with my last FF miles, even under torture.
In any case, if you wish to arrange for a GTG in Chicago or somewhere within reasonable reach (but not Starved Rock, which was a disappointment) it will be pleasant to meet other Fodorites.
Report Abuse
OC -- would love to see you and Eser again. Do you know your dates in Chicago? We'll be travelling cross country from the east coast and perhaps our timing will be such that we're in Chicago area at the same time as you.
Report Abuse
Yestravel, we should be in Chicago June 25 till July 19, but we are also considering a 3-7 day trip somewhere during that period.
Hawai was first choice but the two long flights and the cost discouraged us. Puerto Rico seems to be the cheapest to reach, Cuba not so easy and possible from Mexico (that may change by next Summer). But the Caribbean may not be the best choice due to the Hurricane season.
Flight to Seattle and then the area with a drive to Vancouver is another option but Chicago-Seattle fares are also higher than Puerto Rico fares and I am not sure which would be more interesting since we have not been to either.
Will also allow (!) Eser to post about plans on her Facebook.
Report Abuse
OC - Thanks for the update.
12 more sleeps for us..
If you are in the Pacific North West, please consider Vancouver Island, would love to meet you can Eser..
Report Abuse
Too bad. Doubt we'll be in Chicago area that early in July. But we are also going to Pacific Northwest (PNW) so maybe if you decide on Vancouver area our paths might cross there. I will watch FB for Eser's comments. (And appreicate you "allowing" her to post. )
The Caribbean in the summer could be very hot. While Hurricane season starts officially in June, they are not real common that early in the season, not impossible but unusual. I haven't been to Puerto Rico in many years, but I'd go for the PNW in a heartbeat given the choice between the 2. It's beautiful. Vancouver is a wonderful city.
Report Abuse
July is beautiful in the Pacific Northwest and Vancouver is one of my favorite cities. It has a waterfeont setting with a variety of interesring neighborhoods.
Puerto Rico sounds interesring too but the heat would be a problem for me.
Report Abuse
Thanks for the information Yestravel and the invitation Samuell.
Samuell, please write to me at the address I have for comments on my book and other writings, [email protected]
Then, I can give you our contact phones just in case you feel uncomfortable about anything and maybe we can also meet.
Here's some good news for you: Schools will be officially closed November 2, day after election, thus making traffic lighter in Istanbul.
Report Abuse
I'll also vote for the PNW. We did a Vancouver-Olympic National Park-Seattle loop a few years ago. Loved Vancouver! I still need to go to Victoria.
Samuell, I'm glad your trip is still on. Have a wonderful time!
Report Abuse
I see the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago has some nice Near/Middle Eastern pieces - https://oi.uchicago.edu/museum-exhibits/syro-anatolian-gallery
Report Abuse
Thanks Croesus for bringing that to my attention.
We felt privileged tonight to have attended the concert of the amateur European Choir (70-80 chorists) performing Welsh composer Karl Jenkins's "Stabat Mater".
Jenkins had included in the medieval poem, pieces from the "Epic of Gilgamesh" and Jalal Al-Din Rumi, the first to some thundering drum beats, possibly to say that the sadness of a mother losing her child is not always a quiet affair.
We had a friend who was in the choir, which was fine for an amateur ensemble.
The 20-25 piece orchestra was from the city of Bursa and performed quite well. The solo performances and the reed player were OK.
We followed it with a great kebap feat at the new Kasibeyaz on the Bosphorus to remove ourselves from the lament and the evil that pervades our world.
Report Abuse
Yes, eight more sleeps...thanks to you and many others.
You must visit not just Victoria, but the island, and islands around us...
If you do, best in summer and we are usually home to meet up.
Report Abuse
sounds like a very good concert, OC. I've heard [but not yet sung in] Jenkins' The Armed Man but not this piece. Is the European Choir a permanent feature or are they touring?
Report Abuse
The European Choir has been a permanent amateur feature in Istanbul as far back as I can remember being interested in the type of music they make. Meaning, about thirty years or so.
I think it was originally founded by some expats and interested Turks. We had another friend in it, Evelynne, who has been back in Paris for twenty years or so but we still communicate. A schoolmate, a good tenor, who passed away two years ago, also used to participate as he did with a jazz group and at some friendly gatherings with his guitar to sing old American and Irish ballads.
To get a feel of some of the composer's additions, you can listen to the Turkish national Kurdish singer, Aynur, whose following song has always hit me as "out of this world." Can you imagine her singing this at a Byzantine underground Cistern or a historic Turkish bath? As you can tell it is also a lament.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlUGEO7advc (the clarinet player is Syrian)
and here's some sufi music with reed and drums by the well-known reed (ney) player Mercan Dede : It is called, Nerdesin? "Where are you?" (repeated throughout)
Report Abuse
beautiful and haunting - thanks for posting it, OC.
Report Abuse
AKP government and the President are playing too many trumps and high cards this last week before the elections.
A large commercial-industrial-media group opposed to AKP (used to be on the same line till three years ago as supporters of the Gulen movement) was taken over by the government yesterday and today, with drummed up charges and without due course of justice, on the orders of the public prosecutor.
The caretaker management solely composed of AKP bigshots and supporters immediately forced shut down of two of the national TV stations although the newspapers may still be active. Protesting employees and managers weere tear gassed and hosed with water cannon and some were arrested.
This automatically brings to mind all the false accusations the same newspapers and others supporters of the Gulen movement and AKP jointly employed against other journalists, armed forces officers and intellectuals between 2008 and 2012.
The Arabs say "men dakka dukka" I think, meaning, "what you sow, you reap"
In the former occasions, there was some semblance of law. This time around even that does not exist.
Yet, all opinion polls (officially unavailable since last week) point to an increase in AKP votes, despite the disregard for law, authoritarian rule, the bombings, the security force casualties directly caused by the government starting and escalating hostilities against armed Kurdish insurgents with whom they were in the process of negotiating an excellent peace.
A long holiday starts tomorrow, ending Monday evening. We shall see if the higher income groups and the more educated will stay home and vote for the liberal/left or go on vacation instead.
In the meantime, a number of ISIS cells have been raided possibly for the first time, in earnest and potential bombers and bombs found and captured. The targets appeared to be armed forces and HADEP or the Kurdish party in general.
Come and join the election excitement.
And tomorrow, 29th OCtober, we should have the Victory Day fireworks on the Bosphorus in the area between Kabatas-Uskudar and the First Bosphorus Bridge.
Best places to watch will be Kabatas, Uskudar, Dolmabahce, Ortakoy, Beylerbeyi and Cengelkoy Squares; Swiss Hotel, Ciragan Palace Kempinsky, Four Seasons Bosphorus, Radisson Blue Bosphorus, House Hotel Ortakoy. our balcony (as IAMDonehere can attest) and Marmara Taksim Hotel as well as the new CVK Hotel.
Report Abuse
Thanks for the update, OC. it certainly sounds like an interesting time to be in Turkey.
Report Abuse
When you stress people they seek the comfort of things they are familiar with. The book "1984" gives you all the clues you need to be able to manipulate a population.
Report Abuse
Well, hope for a democratic Turkey has disappeared. AKP has a strong majority. They can pass any laws they like with their 316 seats. The opposition may be allowed to speak occasionally but will have no effect on what laws are passed.
A well known AKP supporting columnist gleefully claimed tonight that "the intellectuals received the slap they deserved."
I will stop writing about politics on this thread and concentrate only on travel information from now on. However will have my last stand with my tweets from last week, some days before the election.
Ahmet C. Celebiler @ahmetcelebiler Oct 29
#Turkey Nomadic heritage and being a subject people for thousands of years demands iron fisted, irrational rule & unfortunately gets it.
1 retweet 0 favorites
Reply Retweet 1 Favorite View Tweet activity
Oct 29
#Turkey can't see ahead or care due to nomadic heritage, the belief that one can always migrate after polluting this one with stupidity.
1 retweet 0 favorites
Reply Retweet 1 Favorite View Tweet activity
Ahmet C. Celebiler @ahmetcelebiler Oct 29
#Turkey was embroiled in the morass with other ME countries like Egypt, Syria, Iraq and has unfortunately reached the point of no return.
Oct 29
#Turkey #IdesofNovember The country will suffer misrule and misery peaking with the next Istanbul earthquake, 20 years hence.
0 retweets 1 favorite
Reply Retweet Favorite 1 View Tweet activity
Ahmet C. Celebiler @ahmetcelebiler Oct 29
#Turkey looking forward to another election November 1, just as its looking forward to the scientifically soon expected Istanbul earthquake.
Oct 29
#Turkey facing another national election with no hope of educated, rational voter behavior. Shows man made catastrophe worse than God made.
Oct 29
#Turkey having provoked & supported ethnic and religious violence abroad is now in the threshold of escalation of domestic provocation.
Possible effects of election outcome:
- The TL is expected to appreciate in the short term.
- PKK activity will slow down for the short term but may escalate before December.
- There will be no safety issues for the traveler in the short to medium term.
- More and more parks, natural beeches and forests will make way to concrete structures with no consideration for the environment or for aesthetics.
- This Winter may be the last time the away from the sight Kartalkaya ski area will have the beautiful route through the forests and mountains of Northwestern Bolu.
Report Abuse
So sad to see the election result, OC. BBC's From our own Correspondent had a good piece yesterday about how the government were linking the PKK and ISIS together, despite the fact that they are sworn enemies, and thus frightening people into voting for them for fear of something worse. Looks like the tactic worked.
Stay safe and do keep us up to date with the situation in Turkey.
Report Abuse
I am so sorry OC, to hear the election news. it sounds so discouraging and disheartening - I hope your philosopher's heart can hold strong.
Report Abuse
Sad, but not surprising. When people feel threatened they vote for security. Politicians know this and have exploited it since time immemorial.
Report Abuse
Thanks lauramsgarden.
Annhig & Fra_Diavola you're right of'course.
One may even consider the "Stockholm Syndrome"
Report Abuse
Don't stop writing about your political thoughts, OC. They help us see how multi-dimensional Turkey really is.
PS: Fear-breeding political tactics unfortunately work in a time of instability. A prime example is George W. Bush as he was elected for his second term.
Comment has been removed by Fodor's moderators
Report Abuse
Report Abuse
I, too, add my heartfelt sadness about the election results. Agree with all the comments above about fear, insecurity and their use by politicians - and yet, people do buy into the manipulations. Frustrating is the word.
Please don't stop sharing your thoughts about politics here - it's very refreshing to read your comments, especially after reading and watching the news. I turn to your posts to understand better what is going on.
Report Abuse
Thanks to all again,
- Turkish Lira gained over 4% within an hour of election results, dipped another percen and climbed to the 3.7% again.
- It seems that the Neo-Nationalist MHP was punished by their supporters for refusing to join potential coalition against AKP when the three parties had the chance after June 7. They lost half their seats (from 80 to 40)
- The Kurdish party lost both the feudal vote (feudal leaders having been bought by AKP in the Southeast?) and possibly some fear vote. They also lost some sympathy vote in the West but that is negligible in comparison to the bigg losses in their own domain. They barely made it above the 10% threshold but kept 58 of their previous 81 seats.
- The left/liberal CHP slighty increased vote and number of seats but that becomes meaningless in view of its lack of use as a deterrent against enactment of new repressuive laws or potential illegal and unethical activities by the authoritarian government.
- United States and EU voiced concern over the single party authoritarian rule but unless Erdogan steps on their toes hard enough to cause pain or hit the bunions, they will just mutter, complain and try to find some advantages for their benefit under the new circumstances. As long as the AKP government keeps the two and a half million Syrian refugees within its borders, EU will write some negative reports, postpone Turkey's membership in the EU and feel justified for having supported Erdogan.
- The fact that a dictatorial Turkey or one pushed towards civil strife by the government disciplining their opponents, critics, the rebellious Kurds, the unhappy Alevis or the totally useless intellectuals may actually hurt EU in the medium to long term is too far ahead even for European politicians. Apres moi la deluge!!!
I made a Thai-Indian fusion stir fry vegetable medley yesterday with jasmine rice on the side and ate a whole 80 gram bar of 80% cocoa dark chocolate afterwards while watching some classics like "Butterfield 8" and "Auntie Mame" with two friends to calm myself last night. They and Eser showed more stress, I think. I just broke out in hives, safely blaming Elizabeth Taylor.
Report Abuse
A changing world frightens many.
Report Abuse
Here's a bit of info for those concerned about safety:
The G20 summit will be held at Antalya, Turkey, at the posh resort, Belek in the South, (golf courses and 7 Star hotels) on November 15-16, with most heads of state including Obama attending.
Report Abuse
7 star does that mean the elevators have elevators?
Report Abuse
Things have settled down to periodic curfews at Southeastern cities for house to house searches for both terrorists and critics with an occasional death of unnamed residents by unnamed security personnel to be covered up with even more dirt.
Weather seems to be on the mend.
Turkish Lira has lost some of the gains (about 3-4%) since the election.
I will find more about the traveler perspective of Turkey for the first time visitor when we meet Fodorite Samuel and wife (from Vancouver) in a few days and have dinner with them at: http://elmadagmeyhanesi.com/
I changed my profile photo to a shot taken three days ago at the front of our Iznik home, sipping tea in lovely weather, but somehow it appears sideways and I cannot get it upright no matter what I try. (no similarities to other things intended. lol)
Report Abuse
I tried turning my head sideways to see your pic, OC but that didn't work too well so than I realised that having a laptop, I could turn that round instead. eh voila!
so good to read that things are settling down a little.
Sadly your link wouldn't open for me, but I hope that you all have a lovely time on your mini-GTG.
Report Abuse
Ditto - I did the same with my iPad & the link didnt open either. Nice photo, OC. Enjoy your GTG.
Report Abuse
Nice photo. I miss Turkish tea! The link wouldn't open for me either, but enjoy your dinner and GTG.
Report Abuse
I was in Turkey traveling for almost a two months and I can say that diversity of Turkish culture is really amazing. Meanwhile the same like you I started to make a blog about places that I visited and among them was also and Ankara. There is Ataturk mausoleum which I recommend to everyone who wot to visit the area : http://personal-travel-photos.blogspot.rs/2015/05/ataturk-mausoleum-ankara-turkey.html
Report Abuse
Gregory245, thanks for the comment and link to your blog.
Our small gtg with Samuel and his wife was very pleasant. He had gone to the restaurant earlier to tell the owner/manager that he would be the one to settle the bill. I think we only have a few IPhone photos Eser took and posted on her Facebook.
The weather is better than usual although there has been some snow in eastern Turkey.
The G20 summit went without a hitch and in decent weather. All attendees were very polite to each other and hidden agendas were kept hidden. The usual lines were uttered. As expected Turkish president who has no administrative authority represented Turkey instead of the Prime Minister, and neither EU leaders nor Obama found this strange, showing appreciation for his dismissal of constitutional or democratic rights in Turkey.
The TL stayed strong against the USD and gained against the Euro, possibly on the basis of the officially recorded Thirteen Billion USD source unknown funds entering Turkey in the first three quarters of this year.
As I said earlier, the Turkish government deal with IS seems to be holding despite the recent crack down on some IS cells, and Turkey may still be safer than other major cities of Europe. (The Ankara suicide bombs and the earlier ones were all against the Kurdish party supporters and left wing intellectuals, meaning foes of the ruling party, so the public does not fear any future activity.
We found a terrific deal on Turkish airlines and will fly to Venice, Italy for three nights for $115/each return (full service)
Have reserved at Ca' Gottardi, a bit far from San Marco but liked reviews. So have started exercising by walking all of 1-2 kilometers everyday (supermarket shopping included) Have also had ears cleaned, Merrell shoes broken in, weather report checked, carry-ons almost packed, pinochle cards for double deck two person pinochle at night at the ready in case Kindle is not satisfactory.
I even found a guide to Italy with a few pages on Venice, published in 1993 which we had probably bought for our first family visit to Tuscany, Genova and Portofino. (Told Eser that the book is now a collector's item and should be treasured, but she may not have believed me)
Will report on airport security and other things when we get back.
It is rather late now but the Lego dozer 42028 for our 7 Month old grandson (new profile photo) is awaiting a few more of the 630 pieces to be installed.
Report Abuse
otherchelebi, what was behind the booing during the moment of silence for Paris at the Greece-Turkey friendly match?
Report Abuse
sandralist, it must have been followers of the Turkish President who stated a few years ago that their party's aim was to bring up a "religious and vindictive generation."
I guess that the hissing and booing (second time, after the Match between Turkey and Holland where the moment of silence was for those who died at bombing in Ankara)
An interview with an IS defector at an internet news site clearly describes the partnership between IS and Turkish intelligence. Whether this is a defensive move by Turkey or one of radicalization is anyone's guess. (only in Turkish unfortunately: http://www.karsigazete.com.tr/gundem/kiliste-el-kaide-ve-isidin-camileri-var-h60556.html )
Report Abuse
Thanks. I was able to read the article by running it through Google translate. Whether or not American voters can be led to see that Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Israel are effectively now allies of ISIS, refusing to prioritise its defeat, is a long shot, and whether Obama is willing to risk his Iran deal by confronting this behaviour is another long shot, and one sees almost no inclination anywhere among world political leadership to invest the time and brain work to understand ISIS and consider anything other than the failed military approach... so even on a beautiful day in Italy it is hard to feel optimistic.
Report Abuse
As I said earlier, the Turkish government deal with IS seems to be holding despite the recent crack down on some IS cells, and Turkey may still be safer than other major cities of Europe>>
for now perhaps, but "he who rides the tiger"...
Report Abuse
if anyone wants to see how paranoia becomes one of the first illnesses of a society under attack, it is worth reading some of the comments on al Jazeera items.
I very much assume you will find someone who thinks ISIS is in league with USA and Isreal
Ain't the web fun
Report Abuse
For those interested in the extent to which the present Turkish government is supporting ISIS:
Report Abuse
The Turkish Ministry of Culture decreed that the name of the soon to be performed opera called "Ali Baba and Fourty Thieves" be changed to "Ali Baba & 40". They stated that the reason for the name change was simplification of the name for ease of domestic and international use.
The name change is highly suspect of being a mean of removing the concept of stealing from the public eye and erasing any similarity to a specific living political leader and his henchmen.
The statement by the Ministry is pure ignorance, and based on belief that nobody knows about "The Thousand and One Nights" because they are or were totally unaware of this clasic.
Venice night time temperaturs reaching freezing point or below next week. Eser and I may decide that we are not as "cold" loving as we have always proclaimed to be, or post only photographs taken in and out of our hotel, motor taxi, and the confines of a few restaurants.
Report Abuse
Venice at night is lovely, OC, even in the cold - better that than the rain, anyway. Wear warm coats and boots and you'll be fine.
Report Abuse
Otherchelebi: I continue to enjoy, and learn from, your posts and blog. That restaurant link above just emphasizes my regret at not being in the planning stages for a return visit to Istanbul, and beyond. YET !
Stay safe and well. Warm regards to Eser.
Report Abuse
This is very interesting. I am going to Turkey in March (Istanbul) and many of my questions are in your post.
I had concerns doing this trip alone with my husband. We are well seasoned travelers, but due to the latest safety issues in Paris and Belgium-I considered latching onto a tour group. What are your thoughts?
Report Abuse
My brother and SIL were scheduled to go to Turkey next year as part of their European cruise. The Turkey portion has been put on hold for now, the cruise lines decision. They have been to Turkey a few years ago and were looking forward to a return. They will just have to see how it all goes in the coming months.
Report Abuse
brookums, if I was doing this trip, I would avoid being part of a tour group. If you look back at tourist attacks they normally happen against large groups rather than couples, so the two big attacks in Egypt three years ago were tour groups.
Hope that helps. I would be less attracted to a large ship for the same reason. When I used to be involved in supplying very large equipment to the travel world we had two tests of safety
1) If this went wrong would a large group of Americans die
2) If this went wrong would a small number of American congressmen or senators die.
2) was always the higher test and we avoided it like the plague
Report Abuse
brookums-go to Turkey with your husband. It's a terrific country and deserves all the attention you have time for. I wish I'd had more time last month--our travels took us to Izmir, Konak by ferry, Selcuk, Sirence and Ephesus by private car and driver, Istanbul by Onur airline, and then we did some other traveling around too! We felt completely safe and hopped on and off trams, trains, and buses the whole trip, easy-peasy. The world is great big and beautiful. Go see Turkey and Paris and all the other places you want to go -- danger and random acts of terror can catch you anywhere, at anytime at all. You can't plan for trouble and you can't win the game of "Whack-A-Mole". Yes, you should stay out of active war zones, otherwise, enjoy yourself and see Turkey like you planned.
Report Abuse
There were too many changes in the last five days:
1. The extent of IS entrenchment and mobilization in belgium and France poses questions regarding other Western European country circumstances.
United Kingdom generally has a better rein on religious and sectarian activities in the country, but, then, they have as big or bigger pool of religious adherents from whom IS can recruit.
Also, reprisals from the extreme right as well as panic and riots result of unfounded fear may also be cause of safety concerns in Europe.
Is either has not officially designated Turkey as a target as they have done Western Europe and United States, or the media censors any related news.
If it were only Is, I would probably advise concern and strong caution against traveling to any European and Middle Eastern country.
Turkey has the advantage of strong security force experience in dealing with extremists. It seems that Turkish intelligence has infiltrated IS in general and all known radical fundamentalist, nationalist and leftist groups within Turkey. It is also quite probable that the Turkish government has used members of these groups to unknowingly carry out political assasinations, violent riots, ethnic attacks, and similar activities, currently and in the past 65 years.
2. The bigger threat to safety lies in the new development regarding the downing of the Russian Fighter by Turkish jets.
I just cannot see Putin letting bygones be bygones, especially after a lack of communication to him by the Turkish president and prime minister. Instead of the apology, Turkish leaders immediately called NATO, United States and Merkel, possibly to ask for back-up in case the Russian response is also military.
Russia is Turkey's second or third larges economic-commercial partner. Turkey depends heavily on Russian natural gas and Russian tourists bring about one Billion USD of currency to Turkey every year. Putin already asked Russian citizens not to visit Turkey and the major Russian tour operator cancelled all tours.
Russian intelligence activity would unfortunately also involve use of radical movements in other countries and a violent reprisal against Turkey could easily be formulated by those means without incurring NATO, EU or US wrath.
The flight in from Venice today was the emptiest Turkish airlines flight we have taken in a very long time.
I will post about the Russian situation regularly, hoping that the worst can be a cold Winter with restricted heating. (Our Iznik home has a good design with two blow wents, one for the living room and one for the upstairs. We also have very expensive diesel run central heating and one standby mobile electric heater for the 740 feet tiny home.)
Next, a few words on Venice trip
Report Abuse
I should start with our breaking an almost Phileas Fog record in one day.
We dragged our heavy carry-ons almost half a mile and over three bridges with looming steps, starting at 9 AM.
- At 9:20 we took the Number 1 vaporetto on the Grand Canal to the end of the line for the bus.
- We made it to the 10:00 bus No.5 to San Marco Airport.
- We had three hours to aid the Italian duty free shop and airport bar owners. The only enjoyable activity was wine tasting at a stand manned by a young lady with a good sense of humor. We both loved the "Conti D'Agostino." However she kept on giving us little sips rather than a nice full glass although we said many times (especially Eser) that the tiny sips were not enough to allow us to get a feeling for the brand.
- The flight was on time, comfortable, with the usual decent Turkish airline food. The only slightly unpleasant experince was that I noticed one cabinet attendent had not made good use of a deodorant. It also raced for a 20 minute early touch down.
- We lost that 20 minute advantage because DD the Elder called to ask for some mascara and lip gloss from the incoming duty free. (Turkey is one of the few countries with large incoming duty free shops at all big airports)
- Eser checked our land route home on Yandex and it seemed mostly green, so we took a taxi. Apparently Yandex maps were manipulated by the taxi rank at SAW airport and the whole motorway changed to red after initial 15 miles. So we reached an amicable agreement with the cab driver and took the first available exit to Kartal, which is the end of the longest Istanbul subway line.
- A few minutes of waiting and we were on route to Kadikoy ferry landing. Our underground trip took 42 minutes, but we took the wrong exit and had to walk a quarter of a mile to the Kabatas ferry leaving at 18:00.
- At 18:30 the janitor of our building picked us up with my car, at the ferry landing in exchange for three days off that he needed to go to his village to bring his mother.
So in one day, we walked a total of a mile or more, took a vaporetto, a bus, a flight, a taxi, a subway, a ferry and a private car to reach our home in Istanbul, starting at Venice, Italy.
Report Abuse
Putin seems to have a few too many irons in the fire at the moment and may lash out in frustration.
Was Venice ok in November, Mrs B went and shivered in a garret for a week of Italian training a few years back.
Report Abuse
Sorry that your homecoming was so difficult, OC, but glad you are home safe and sound.
As ever your comments on the current situation are interesting and informative. Thank you. If anything I was surprised at how mild Putin's response was; you may well be right that he is biding his time. They were saying today that the encroachment of the border lasted only 17 seconds - hardly worth upsetting one of ones biggest economic partner for, I'd have thought.
Report Abuse
Recent events underscore what a bad idea it would be to attempt to enforce a no-fly zone precisely in the area where the Russian plane was shot down. Hillary Clinton is pushing this (maintaining her unbroken record of bad ideas for the region.)
Report Abuse
Unfortunately, Turkish president announced his refusal to make a formal apology.
Immediate consquences were the detainment of 60 Turkish businessmen flying to Moscow to visit a fair. news is that they will be kept in isolation at Sochi for 7-10 days and then deported.
Lorries with Turkish plates or Turkish drivers are not allowed to cross into Russia through Ukrain or Georgia. Those carrying fresh produce, dairy products and flowers have turned back after waiting upto eighteen hours.
Russian minister of the Economy stated that there would be reprisals but did not give specifics.
All flights and tours from Russia to resort towns in Turkey have been cancelled.
The comments of many readers to these stories on the internet show incredible ignorance. many, possibly blind supporters of the Turkish leader, say that Turkey does not need Russia either for natural gas (50% of annual consumption) or as a buyer of Turkish products/ Some go as far as saying the Turkish armed forces can handle a Russian attack easily.
There are even those who write that Turkey should close the Bosphorus and Dardannelles straits to all Russian shipping.
In the meantime, the journalists who managed to get copies of the court investigation regarding Turkish trucks carrying arms to Syria secretly under guise of humanitarian aid, with photographs of opened crates displaying rockets, ammunition, etc., are being arrested for aiding and abetting terrorism, espionage and working against the Republic of Turkey.
And, the Turkish security forces continue with marshall law and curfews at Southeastern cities. Last one was Nusaybin where the subjects (not citizens!) were imprisoned in their homes for thirteen days with no running water, electricity, food and mediacal assistance.
So, what can Russia do that is worse than what the Turkish government is doing?
Photographs of streets of these towns after the curfew remind me of Budapest, with walls riddled with bullet holes, some eight years after the Hungarian uprising.
Let us hope that some goodwill, sanity and compassion prevails with the illogical, insane, violent, ignorant groups, forces and leaders of this world so that we can continue our "pursuit of happiness" through traveling, friendship and understanding the good and the great of all the terrific cultures and places of this globe)
Report Abuse
"All flights and tours from Russia to resort towns in Turkey have been cancelled"
That's going to hit the tourism industry. I heard that Turkey has been subsidising Russian charter flights this year to bring them in.
Poor old Ivan is running out of places to go on holiday!
Report Abuse
still got north Korea
Report Abuse
Have you ever experienced a hamam? I am intrigued.
Report Abuse
I must have missed (or forgotten) any of my comments about hammam (I think hamam was in the Book of Esther but it is a small book and as one ages one forgets)
still yes (but not in Turkey)
also hot pools in Turkey/Iceland/Azores/New Zealand/Hungary
and Saunas in Finland/Canada/Azores/Iceland/UK
while squat loos in Morocco/Paris/a michelin 2* restaurant in the Jura and on a Japanese train (was it really a bullet train 35 years ago).
Feet washed in a Mosque in France and Syria.
Perhaps we should have an ablutions thread?
Anyway have a lovely day, the season of Climate change stimulated storms is now well upon my little town in Yorkshire today, let us hope that our leaders make something out of the coming talks in Paris in the coming weeks.
Have a great day, the worst thing is fear, the best thing is to dispel it.
Report Abuse
OC - glad you are safely home and hope your trip was great. Sick at heart to hear of all the chaos and violence that seems to get worse by the day (and please Sandralist - let's not go political on Fodors) - grateful to those of you everywhere "on the ground" who can give us your personal insights into what is happening.
Report Abuse
Interesting to me, but someone living in Turkey would know better about the quality of the analysis
US foreign policy and the behaviour of the Obama administration is not irrelevant to this thread, and has been mentioned in earlier posts by the author. No sacred cows.)
Report Abuse
There is a book called "Why intelligent People Do Stupid Things"
Unfortunately, there is no book calle "Why All people Do Stupid Things."
Either way, the answers have more to do with "perception" rather than thought.
Whether is is Erdogan or Obama or Hilary or Putin or Trump, their thought processes leading to stupid conclusions and/or actions are due to problems with their assumptions, observations and perceptions, and even possibly convoluted effects of their instincts on their analytical judgements.
Sandralist, the article you mention is well written and gives a true picture of Erdogan and his party. However, the author has probably been influenced if not controled by what the American policy makers like to call "moderate islam" meaning the Gulen movement.
It is very clear that Erdogan worked with the Gulen movement hand in hand if not hand in pocket from 1994 till 2012. For a long time this was a marriage made on the good side of the Pearly Gates. In the process, the Gulen movement infiltrated the security forces the judiciary, AKP, the army, the Ministry of Education and the government universities. Their methods were based on successful social engineering and a the author points out, the voting public was very well lead propagandized.
The issue between AKP/Erdogan and the Gulen Movement started when the movement decided that Erdogan's and his minions' greed for more power and wealth was about to cause the movement's own downfall as well as that of AKP.
For the common people and the liberals this was a boon. However, the AKP/Erdogan had learned well from Gulen to falsify evidence, to assume guilty until proven innocent utilizing drummed up charges, to control the judiciary, the army and the security forces. So they started using the same methods not only against the movement and commercial/industrial supporters of Gulen bu to all of their real and imaginary opponents and critics.
International Politics and Diplomacy is precarious tightrope walking between truth and falsehood, between national interest and international goodwill, between domestic consumption and international advantage, between stability and chaos.
Unfortunately this is not the 15th Century and the players are not "Prince"s as defined by Nicola Macchiavelli although many consider themselves to be "The Prince"
Report Abuse
Recent plays by the President have shown that you can get to a pivot point where you can accelerate access to EU membership if you.... see all of above
Given that Romania and Bulgaria both had to do stuff about their corruption as part of the negotiation for entry (on going in both and clearly successful in Romania) what is the chance that Turkey (ancient owner of Bulgaria and Romania) will have to go through the same?
Niente/Nada just about covers it.
Report Abuse
Thanks, otherchelabi, for the added insight into the Gulen movement.
Agree with everything you say about the overall problems with "world leaders" everywhere in the world, pretty much at any moment, although at this particular moment, it appears we are in a real trough when it comes to elected leaders in the US and Europe with curiosity, boldness, leadership qualities. (Pope Frances, of all people, runs circles around all of them!)
I also think it is particularly unhelpful that America has produced so many people with zero understanding of history (and even less willingness to read some books) and a stubborn belief in the idea that the "bad guys" of the world can be wiped out and conquered in the way that Europeans wiped out and conquered native American Indians on the north American continent. Incredible as it is, huge numbers of Americans -- maybe even the majority -- really do not understand why genocidal policies cannot be enacted against the rest of the world that doesn't agree with the American way of life. They cannot grasp that numbers alone don't make this possible. And they don't seem to have a plan B, or any willingness to reduce their consumption of Middle Eastern oil.
These are, of course, not the only mistakes being made, and America is not alone in making mistakes, but this ignorance of the real world -- even regarding the simplest of facts -- is disheartening, especially when backed up with a near infinite supply of high tech lethal weaponry that accomplishes nothing but increasing the number of people who hate the West.
Report Abuse
"or any willingness to reduce their consumption of Middle Eastern oil"
I think you'll find they have.... which kinda explains the oil price at the moment
Report Abuse
OC- I just saw in the news that there has been an explosion in an IST metro. I hope you and Eser are ok. I am so sorry to hear about more violence in our world.
Take care
Report Abuse
Thank you yestravel,
That was a small explosion which slightly injured one person and does not appear to have been related to any terrorist action.
We just came back from istiklal after having dinner with a group of twelve friends from Iznik and the streets were as busy as usual with most shops still open after 10 PM.
Report Abuse
My husband and I wish to travel to Turkey (Istanbul and Cappadocia) in January 2016.
However, we want to know whether it is safe to travel now considering the political scenario and terrorist threats.
Also if we do go to Istanbul and Cappadocia would the climate be very bad, I mean too cold ? How cold is it during January in these two places and is the balloon ride possible during these days ? Please guide.
Report Abuse
Hi varshaupen,
The following gives a good summary of January weather :
If number of clear days increase, then number of days with below 32 F at night increases.
Cappadocia is another matter :
This is a more academic site but good:
Kayseri is the closest large city :
As you can see, January is not usually a wet month, but you never know. Precipitation is more likely to be rain or sleet in istanbul and definitely snow at Cappadocia.
Although I have not been to cappadocia in the Winter, I expect that it will be quite beautiful but your mobility would be rather less than at a Summer or Spring visit due to the cold and the short daylight hours.
Refarding safety, nothing much is going on at this time, except for the usual.
The Southeast is definitely out of bounds not only due to PKK activity but even more due to trigger happy security forces who seem to consider all Kurds and foreigners in the area their enemies.
Follow United States travel warnings but unless they mention specifics, you should be aware that they cannot ever tell you everything is very safe at almost any place in the World because of their responsibilities regarding American citizens.
I would consider that currently Istanbul is safer than Paris, any city in Brussels, any city in Holland and London.
Cappadocia should be very safe because there really are no targets there for terrorism.
Stay away from Russian related sites. Currently, Russia has replaced all other countries as the number one enemy of Turkey after Turkish F16s shot down a Russian bomber over Syria (claiming that it had crossed into Turkish airspace for all of 12 seconds) and the Russians retaliated by stopping all imports from Turkey and by banning touristic visits to Turkey by Russians.
Both sides have also been causing difficulties at customs and ports for trucks and shipping bearing each other's flags and licence plates.
Russia did not get the official apology it demanded and immediately installed air-to-air missiles on its bombers as well as land to air missiles in Syria.
United States administration appears to love the situation, goading Turkey to impose new sanctions on Russia and advising the Turkish president and Prime Minister to be tougher and demand an apology from Russia instead for the 12 second encroachment over the Turkish border.
Unfortunately all these nincompoops play around with the lives and life styles of millions of people and enjoy these games too much to find time to combat climate change or any other really serious matter.
I will post again when I see or feel in my bones that there is any change.
Report Abuse
The following is a copy of the mail I sent to my former int'l Studies professor :
Things are heating up rather too fast here :
- proceedings have started against a CHP MP because he talked about the Sarin Gas shipments to Syria that took place inn 2013 and was actually publicly recorded by the prosecutors who arrested 5 for the crime but released them for an unspecified reason a week later.
- All teachers at Silopi, Cizre, Nusaybin, Yuksek Ova, dar Gecit and parts of Diyarbakir were ordered to abandon their schools and go home or to some unknown training by the Ministryof Education.
- The above mentioned cities resemble Aleppo and other towns badly hit by heavy weapons. about two hundred thousand people have already left or are in the process of leaving. The cities or certain parts are totally destroyed and an unknown number of the residents, including women and children, have been killed by the security forces who have left anti-Kurdish graffiti on the ruined walls. Even a video of a supposedly PKK militant dragged on a road at the end of a roap tied to a police vehicle was released by the Ministry and then pullde back after the outcry.
- The Russian embargo against Turkish products and the complete drying up of Russian tourists have hit farmers, traders, hotels, resorts, the Istanbul Laleli luggage tourism tarade, leather goods manufacturers and Turkish contractor with projects in russia.
- The expectation is that Turkey will face price increase and/or cuts of Natural Liquid gas.in the very near future.
- Turkey decided to investigate the three and a half thousand Iranian companies set up in Turkey in the last year or two, hence alienating not only the Iranian government more but also Iranian people.
- Two popular books written on Kurds were were banned after they were found at home of two young men shot by the security forces 5-6 years after publication, possibly to justify the shooting.
- Both the PM and the President give hate speeches and make ethnocentric and authoritative declarations every day.
- They also continue with untruths to defend against Iraqi and Russian government demands.
- A strange entity called the "Islamic Army" was puportedly established today with 34 nations signing. However, very few, including the signatories, have any idea what it is all about.
- Even the most liberal or anti-AKP journalists, writers and talk show hosts are afraid of criticizing the government re the downing of the Russian plane and the action against the Kurds forcing them into a corner where they may all decide that their only hope is to fight along the PKK.
I very much regret that I was somehow too lazy to visit those areas and will probably never be able to in the future. This is the same feeling I had about Syria in early 2011.
Here are some recent tweets :
Ahmet C. Celebiler @ahmetcelebiler
#IslamicArmy is established by 34 countries. Is this to replace ISIS and/or to fight the Christian Crusaders? Or a response to Donald Trump?
Ahmet C. Celebiler @ahmetcelebiler 2h2 hours ago
Can #Turkey a secular(?) #NATO member become member of another regional military org. especially one established on a religious basis?
Ahmet C. Celebiler @ahmetcelebiler 2h2 hours ago
Is new #IslamicArmy to fight #Islamaphobia or set up new battlegrounds to settle differences between each other? Loser on loser for no gain.
Report Abuse
So sorry to read this, OC.
stupidity, fear and hunger for power apparently know no barriers.
stay safe.
Report Abuse
The following link is to a leftist news portal possibly owned and run by some labour unions/syndicates.
Unfortunately the violence of the occupational forces is increasing in the Southeast just as the local public reaction.
People are learning handicapped. This is true of decision makers especially.
The government is saying "We cannot allow the terrorista rule over our towns, therefore we will send soldiers, commandos and tanks to finish them off and clean all those towns. We expect that the residents will forgive us for leaving them without water, food, medical care, schooling, etc. due to the 24 hour curfew we have to impose for weeks and weeks, because we are doing all this to protect them and we promise to make up the losses of the inhabitants."
How many do you think will cheer this after having lost their business, homes, personal belongings, starved, and with all schools for their children closed and all teachers in the region told to report to Ankara for training?
Even if the government manages to control these towns, will they be able to pull back the tanks and rest in their dream of a supplicant, meek local population whose youth will all become neo nazis and/or islamists all of a sudden?
I find it terrifying that the columnists and those supposed intellectuals or opinion leaders who appear on TV, are all saying that what the government is doing in the Southeast had to be done (and too bad for the locals who do not support terrorism and those "accidentally" killed by the security forces.)
They are also supporting the government decision to shoot down the Russian bomber which infringed on Turkish airspace for 12-17 seconds, even thogh Russia was a friendly economic partner, supplying almost 50% of all natural gas, 20% of all tourists, and 30% of the international market for fresh fruit, vegetables and cut flowers. Their argument is that legally the Turkish airforce did the right thing and that all countries would have acted similarly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is some increase in protest marches on Istiklal Street on weekends, in Istanbul.
The old city and the "rich city" (meaning Nisantasi, Tesvikiye, Ulus, Etiler and the Bosphorus coast are fine.
People in Istanbul, the stock market, the housing industry, land development, seasonal sales are all going strong as if there is nothing going on elsewhere.
Eser spends time on seasonal romp on FB and re-doing tens of old photograph albums when she has time from our grandson who listens carefully to my lectures on the social and political situation in Turkey and the rest of the world.
Report Abuse
What appears as civil war in parts of Southeastern Turkey is getting worse. All teachers have left the targeted towns, over 200,000 children will have no school this year. Possibly more than that many residents have left just as the Armenian residents had to during the Ottoman Empire rule in early Twentieth century.
The government increased their hate speeches against the Kurdish representative in Parliament as individuals and as the political party itself (HDP). In response, HDP leaders have now beome fully radicalized, calling for the local population to stay and disobey the security forces, who are patrolling the streets in tanks and armoured carriers.
There have been some small episodes at SAW airport in Istanbul (three explosions on the runway) and one on a busy road skirting one of the streams which feed Golden Horn (A city bus burned by a molotov cocktail)
However, I feel that the threat of violence is rapidly increasing while our friends and the people we speak to on various occasions live and act as if everything is normal.
Difficult to understand while the Russian measures are causing steep increases in inflation and cost of living in addition to their very effective cyber attacks on Turkish government sites and all major Turkish banks.
SO the Turkey that was an oasis is fast drying and the watering holes are being dominated by violent wild animals.
Report Abuse
Very sorry to read of your increasing woes, OC. That all sounds very frightening.
in the meantime I read that your President is being painted as rather a hero:
Report Abuse
Fools always rally around a leader using force to "keep them safe." And fools, as Mark Twain noted, are a majority everywhere.
Report Abuse
Yikes, I did not know things were that bad.
Report Abuse
"And now for something completely different" :
Snow is expected over most of Turkey except the Southwest, South- Southeast and West-Southwest on New Years Eve and the first days of the New Year.
Thursday December 31 and Saturday January 2 are expecially bad days for traveling.
Happy, prosperous and wise New Year to all!!!!!!!!!!
Ahmet C. Celebiler @ahmetcelebiler Dec 24
#Mithra's Moon over the Bosphorus, December 24. Lighting the sea route to 2016, a year of prosperity and wisdom..
Embedded image permalink
Report Abuse
Snow depth about six inches and snow fall continues on and off, sometimes heavily. First white NYE in istanbul in many years.
Eser's dad will probably not be able to make it to our home tonight for the family dinner which also celebrates his 88th birthday.
Older DD, SIL and grandson may also not make it because access to our home may be risky the last 800 feet even for the Subaru Impreza.
here's a new tweet :
Ahmet C. Celebiler @ahmetcelebiler 8 minutes ago
#LongPig continues to be a delicacy in the world even (especially?) where banned by religion. Just methods of capture & recipes have changed.
Report Abuse
Pretty amazing snow on the webcams:
Report Abuse
I loved the fact the president stayed in his car and kept his phone to his ear as he was introduced to the man his staff had talked off the bridge. One of the people indeed.
I also enjoyed the way he kicked the Russian bear and then went running to hide behind NATO's apron.
It must be very frustrating watching this from up close.
Have a happy new year.
Report Abuse
yes, Happy New year to you and yours, OC. Amazing to think that you have heavy snow, and the North pole is melting!
Report Abuse
Happy New year to you and our family, OC. Stay warm & dry. Still unseasonably warm weather here in DC.
Report Abuse
Thanks for all new year wishes.
Snow has started to melt and temperatures will suddenly rise up to 55-59 F on Wednesday. istanbul will be rainy and morose with overcast skies, short days, ugly politicians.
Southwestern and Western Turkey were also unusually cold. Orange, banana and lemon will probably have suffered from frost.
We in istanbul suffer more from witnessing, watching, reading and hearing about man's inhumanity to man.
(have a look at my last two Venice photographs on my travel blog)
Report Abuse
It should be another interesting year. Let us hope it is less deadly.
Report Abuse
There was a loud explosion at the Hippodrome in Sultanahmet about half an hour ago at 10:20 AM.
The police has cordoned of a very large area and are extending it towards the Cemberlitas column on Divan Yolu.
CNN Turkey says the explosion occurred in the vicinity of the Egyptian monolith.
The base of this monolith is about seven feet or so below ground leveland can be viewed through a low fence surrounding the hole.
There is no news of bodily injury but I can see multiple ambulances and fire engines in the area.
This is an area which has large numbers of security cameras, so the story should soon be made public by the authorities.
DW had just left home to deliver somethings to grandson and reported that she faced heavy traffic and large numbers of police vehicles going towards the incident.
The CNN reporter on site is told by witnesses that it was most probably a suicide bomber.
I will report again as more info becomes available
Report Abuse
CNN Cameras show :
- Three unmoving bodies on the ground.
- Most ambulance and fire engines closer to the German (Willhelm II) fountain.
- Many tourists, sitting and crying close to the area. Why doesn't CNN interview them?
Report Abuse
A tourism professional is now being interviewed as an eyewitness.
He says, he saw one dead with pieces scattered. Let us hope that that was the suicide bomber and not someone else.
He said that most of the tourists in the area were from Eastern Asia.
Oh, NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The first official report :
May they rest in peace.
Report Abuse
Governor's office report :
10 dead, 15 injured
Report Abuse
Unconfirmed reports in British press that the tourists killed were mostly French and German. Female suicide bomber. Target was tourists.
Report Abuse
Turkish governments first reaction to the Sultanahmet blast was to impose a media ban on the event.
This will keep the Turkish public and the local tour operators & travel agents, as well as all the hotels in the dark, making it impossible for them to try to find means to survive the expected loss of customers.
On the other hand, since the ban cannot cover foreign media and the web (plus those in Turkey who use an international IP address) the foreign traveler will only be able to depend on the limited information available to them from State Department warnings, unreliable Turkish Government statements and possibly misinformed, biased or uncaring foreign press.
Ahmet C. Celebiler @ahmetcelebiler 8s9 seconds ago
How will #Turkish #TourismSector handle #Sultanahmetblast effects on their business & clients if they can get info only from foreign media?
Ahmet C. Celebiler @ahmetcelebiler 3m3 minutes ago
#Turkey decides to worsen result of #Sultanahmetblast on tourism by clamping a media ban on the event. What info are they locally hiding?
Report Abuse
The Guardian is doing a better job than it usually does of trying to separate fact from rumor in its live blog:
Report Abuse
A religious movement built on nihilism and mass death and destruction is no testament to Allah, God or Yahweh or humanity. How can anyone support the annihilation of any Creator's creations? These murders can destroy but they cannot create. OC, we are all maddened by this ceaseless, senseless mess. Man vs man. Religion vs religion. Neighborhood vs neighborhood. Street vs street. "My way vs the highway". Tribalism at its most base. I am enormously saddened and furious at the notion that there will be yet one more place on the planet that will be crossed off 'the list'; which people will avoid; which will become another pin on yet another map of 'danger zones'. For all Istanbulis that will suffer from loss of business, from loss of movement, from loss of cheer: a deeply, heartfelt sorrow.
Report Abuse
So sorry
Report Abuse
Thanks, Sandra for drawing our attention to excellent reporting by the Guardian and thanks to APBaron, Bilbo and those who will feel for the situation and are still asleep in the United States.
Here's my favourite look alike of the Turkish pM :
Report Abuse
Thanks for keeping us informed about another terrible event.
Report Abuse
Suicide bomber has been identified as a Syrian national born in 1988, The strewn body parts belonged to this person.
Some of the foreign dead are as follows, 6 Germans, One Peruvian.
The Turkish President just finished a speech he gave to Turkish ambassadors at State Department Conference where he declared tha Turkey was the most successful nation in the fight against IS!!!!!
Report Abuse
Very unfortunate, so sorry.
Report Abuse
I'm so sorry.
Report Abuse
Terrible news. I am so sorry.
Report Abuse
Sick at heart - thinking of all of you and praying that this hate and madness ends
Report Abuse
OC: I'm so sorry to hear this. Our group really loved Istanbul and it opened our eyes to different cultures. The bomb went off in the heart of Istanbul, where most tourists converge to enjoy the sights, experience the sounds, discuss the history and walk among the different cultures.
I will be saddened to see tourists not coming to Istanbul because of this and hope this incident will not repeat itself.
My heart goes out to all of you in the Turkey as well as to the family and friends of the victims.
Would the Islamic leaders of the world please remind ISIS that they are not acting as messengers of Islam but cowards who bow to the ideology of fear and terror? Their acts of terror are sickening and despicable.
Report Abuse
"Would the Islamic leaders of the world please remind ISIS"
I'm not sure they are listening and I suspect to most Islamic leaders they would say (and believe) that ISIS is nothing to do with them. Probably better if everyone in the world said "stop".
Report Abuse
Awful! I am so sorry this has happened in your city. Seems as if they wanted to strike terror in the fear of tourists. I remember that area so well. Take care.
Report Abuse
We are very saddened by the news.
Stay safe, otherchelebi.
Report Abuse
My heart dropped when I heard the news. Yes, Otherchelebi, stay safe.
Report Abuse
Thinking of you OC and your family as well as your fellow Turkish citizens. Be safe. So tragic and in such a beautiful place.
Report Abuse
Ever since I visited, I've had a deep regard for Istanbul and its people. This is indeed terrible news, and I struggle to equate the Islam that I encountered in October with that of groups like ISIS.
I walked past the site of the bombing probably 30-40 times earlier this year. I don't know why being familiar with an area makes an attack on it so much worse than e.g. an bombing in Mosul or Baghdad where I've never been.
I feel really sorry for the Turkish people - caught as it seems between an would be dictatorship and fundamentalist barbarians.
Report Abuse
Stay safe, OC. Another terrible tragedy in the world and more families in mourning. When will it ever end.
Report Abuse
Very sorry to hear this.
RIP those innocent people going about their lives, killed by a deluded idiot.
Kindest regards to you & yours, Otherchelebi.
Report Abuse
It breaks my heart, but I have to warn future travelers to Turkey to be very flexible with their plans, to make sure not to commit advance payment for services and to buy refundable air tickets.
I follow most newspapers and TV news, as well as many pro-government tweets. The hate and the call for violence against intellectuals, thinkers, real liberals, modernists, human rights activists, progressive artists, actors, directors has increased geometrically (not increments but multiples) since November 1 elections, and seems to have reached a point when nation-wide civil war may suddenly pop up after the threatened witch hunt and violence against all government critics or civil/human rights advocates.
Today, a well known former mafia boss, current government supporter, Islamist, Nationalist wrote on his website that if the scurity forces were not there to protect all the so-called intellectuals, academics, scientists and their foreign bosses, he and his ilk would be taking their baths in their blood.
This is standard fare for many pro-government columnists and anchors and I doubt anyone can successfully seek redress at Turkish courts.
It is already unfortunate that the complaint of the Diyarbakir bar association directly to the International Court of Human Rights regarding the curfew, hunger, resident death, inability to reach the bodies for up to three weeks, lack of food, water, electricity resulted in only a "We shall observe and ask the Turkish government if the Turkish military is stepping over their boundaries," response.
I have even written to an American friend who was on occasion called on as consultant on the Middle East to some United States government agencies, to ask why the Obama administration decided to support AKP again in the last 6-12 months, hoping to get news of the ceasing of this support.
Do you think that Noam Chomsky, one of the now 1128 signatories of the Academics Declaration to the Turkish Government to stop the military action in the Southeast and negotiate a peace, will be terribly afraid after Erdogan included him in his categorization of "ignorant" "so called academics" who will be punished?
Report Abuse
So sorry to read your account of the dire state of affairs, particularly after yesterday's tragedy.
Report Abuse
I was extremely sad to read of the atrocity in Istanbul.
I am currently working on an itinerary for a trip in late summer, that would start in Ankara, loop up to the Black Sea coast and back to Ankara, followed by a flight to Trabzon or Erzurum, overland to Kars and Ani, and then overland to Georgia. I would not go south.
The attack in Istanbul did not convince me to change my plans, but your post might. Would you consider the northeast as "dangerous" as the rest of the country?
Report Abuse
I am very sorry to hear about the state of Turkey. You know how much we appreciate the culture, the cuisine, and the history and, of course, the hospitality of you and the Turks.
Unfortunately, I fear this Islamic civil war will last at least another generation at this level of hostility and people like Erdogan will last always be with us.
Report Abuse
Just heard. I have had some of my happiest, most interesting travel moments on my visits to Turkey. And no small part of that was due to the people. Hope you and family are well. Nasty world.
Report Abuse
there are no specific dangers or safety matters relating to traveling within Turkey at this moment.
The PM and the Minister of Interior have gone live to assure all potential travelers, and neither did the German government warn their citizens traveling or living in Turkey.
What I wrote above relates to an undetermined future and was written as a precaution.
Your plan to the North has more risk from heavy rains and flooding than civil strife or terrorism on the Black Sea Coast, if you stretch it into the second half of September.
Please check rainfall figures for the cities you will travel.
Kars may have a somewhat higher risk quotient due to possible PKK activity in the region.
I should refer you to some of my previous posts regarding infiltration of ISIS by Turkish intelligence and police.
This reduces the risk of getting caught by suicide bombers. Note that the recent suicide bomber had entered Turkey the day before directly from Syria and relations with local suspected activity could not be found.
To help you with planning, I suggest :
- Fly into Ankara and visit to museum of Anatolian Civilizations
- Drive through Safranbolu to Bartin and Amasra
- Drive to Kastamonu through Ulus and Pinarbasi (inland)
- Drive throgh Corum and Amasya to Alacahoyuk and Hattusas
- Drive back to Ankara airport to return car and fly to Trabzon.
- Drive to Sumela monastery, Uzub gol, Ikizdere, Camlihemsin, Ayder on route to Hopa,
- Drive to Borcka and Macahel.
- Drive to Savsat, Ardahan, Kars, Ani.
- You will have to drive back to Hopa to cross to Georgia .
- Arrange to return car at border and pick new car (possibly with driver) at Georgian side of the border. An easy walk across.
Please check Eser's blog (four parts) for photographs and notes on our 2007 trip to the region.
and parts 2,3 and 4
Report Abuse
Thanks for the link. I will be using public transport, not driving myself. I was hoping to take the coast road from Amasra to Sinop, is that as scenic as it sounds? Are you recommending that I avoid Erzurum? I was thinking of taking the train from there to Kars.
Lonely Planet says that there is a crossing near Posof to Akhaltsikhe in Georgia, but LP is not as up to date as I would like. Do you know if that crossing is still operational for foreigners? I've already visited Batumi and Kutaisi, don't especially need to go back.
I would probably be there the second half of August. Thanks.
Report Abuse
Erzurum is extra conservative, Other than that there is no problem with it.
However the bus ride from Erzurum to Kars goes through some risky territory.
The Turkgozu (Posof) border crossing appears to be operational but open only 12 hours a day rather than 24 hours.
You should be aware that this crossing is quite a distance from the closest city, Ardahan and unless you find a bus crossing to Georgia, you may have some difficulty in arranging transportation and lodging in the area.
If you wish to take the coastal route, Amasra to Sinop is quite lovely althogh it does not have the well trodden valley routes that Trabzon to Hopa route has,
You may have to take several part way dolmus or buses between Amasra or Bartin and Sinop.
Once you get to Sinop, it makes no sense to backtrack to Ankara.
You should just continue on the coast to Hopa and then up.
My blog otherchelebis travels covers some parts of Western Black Sea.
We did the 2007 trip in second half of August and found that a light cardigan or a hoodie windbreaker was useful in the higher elevations. Ardahan is about a mile high like Kars.
Report Abuse
Thanks. This would be my fifth visit to Turkey (although the first was way back in 1974 - not the best year to pick!) and I would like to make it to the east. However, I am starting to think that since my real target is Central Asia I should maybe start in Tbilisi (I didn't get up to the high mountains last time).
Report Abuse
I read somewhere (LP, TA?) that Sumela Monastery will be closed for most of this year for renovation.
Report Abuse
Thanks gertie3751, you're right.
Here is a full list of all museums (or parts of museums) and other sites with dates of closure :
It is in Turkish but easy to understand.
Last column is expected reopening date.
Report Abuse
Thanks OC. Hoping Eylul is July??
Report Abuse
Report Abuse
According to google translate it's September.
Thanks for the warning, that's later than I wanted to be there. Am definitely thinking of starting in Georgia instead.
I see that Jakarta was the latest target. I would not decide my destination on the basis of the last ISIS atrocity, but Erdogan's renewed attack on the Kurds was giving me some concern.
Report Abuse
Ahmet - Although I don't spent much time here, rest assured that I am think of you & Eser. Be safe.
Thursday - You are right to have concern.
Report Abuse
I meant 'thinking' of course . . . and I owe you a dinner.
Report Abuse
Thanks gertie, Ian, et al.
Heavy snow in istanbul for two days.
Both airports closed today
A columnist, writing about the Turkish president, said that
someone who is not an experienced poker player should not bluff
in the international arena and someone who has hot seen and understoon the God Father trilogy should not try to act like a
Most recent polls show that votes of AKP are reaching 55% and those of the Kurdish HDP falling below the 10% minimum. I guess violence
and authoritarian rule fulfill some subconscious needs of the voting public in Turkey.
No new safety issues except for weather conditions.
Report Abuse
It was a month of atrocities, violence and breast beating.
Berating Russia, United States, United Nations, European union.
Making a deal with Saudi Arabia to use their F15s, to be stationed in Turkey so that the planes could clandestinely be flown by Turkish pilots to attack Kurdish locations in Syria because of Russian threat to any Turkish air activity over Syria.
More journalists jailed or forced out of work.
Over 1,300 court cases for insulting El Presidente against people who criticized or opposed or made fun of him on twitter, facebook, press radio, tv, instagram, and such.
In the meantime, a terrible flu epidemic swept over the country. Some with highish fever. Every case exhibiting sore throat, dry coughing and bronchitis, staying for as long as 3-4 weeks.
Weather warm after the snows, up to 19 Centigrade tomorrow.
No more terror attacks anyplace, except for those against the security forces in at least six Southeastern cities where the complete curfew has been extended to an impossible to perceive period of over eighty days. Those who could not escape trying to survive in basements with no water or electricity.
The cities are in as bad shape as the Syrian cities bombed by all sides. In this case, it was tanks and cannon against a handful of insurgents. Government proudly declared that they have killed 659 terrorists with no mention of 100,000 households and thousands of businesses totally destroyed and 300,000 immigrants out of the region.
Istanbul seems safe.
But, I advise staying away from protests, tour groups (and Istiklal Street on the weekend)
Not too long before the Tulip festival goes underway.
Independent film festival starts in two weeks.
Today is older daughter's birthday and here's my poem and photos for her:
Report Abuse
Thanks for the update, and saddened by all the tragic events, stay safe.
Report Abuse
I was wondering how you were faring. Grim news, glad you are well.
Report Abuse
Happy Birthday to your daughter - sounds so depressing - hard to find hope when all sides see violence as the solution
Report Abuse
Hope for a brighter future. What a bleak picture of such a wondrous country.
Report Abuse
Thank you for the kind words.
Turkey appears to have shelled more Syrian Kurdish sites with field cannon which has an accurate range of twenty miles, despite Biden's telephone call to the PM to cease and desist.
I only takes one retaliation from the Russians and this place will be hell.
Since Turkey is acting without consulting NATO, I doubt it can depend on United States or Nato protection either.
Took grandchild to a close by seaside park. He has been with us for three days while mom and dad had a Valentine's Day + Birthday trip to Paris. A very well behaved and wise 10 month old who adores his grandpa and grandma. We will miss him when he leaves tonight.
I will also soon change my profile picture to a more grown up grandson.
Report Abuse
OC - the news seems to dreadful to contemplate, so I hope that time with your grandson has brought some happiness and distraction.
Your President does not seem able to learn from his mistakes.
Report Abuse
Not happy to hear this news from Turkey, one of my favourite destinations. It is good to have an inside view of the situation, so different from some of the media, even for this Guardian reader.
Your grandson must be a joy and delight. We have had one fairly recently too who is staying with us from Ecuador. I know exactly how you feel. Concentrate on the good stuff!
Report Abuse
OC-ever get discouraged?
Report Abuse
Cannot get discouraged.
Either life's worth living and you make the best of it even it can be an illusion,
Or, it is not worth it, then you do not do anything, meaning, you do not write this response, or my poems, or travels, or political essays; or one does not teach, empathize, sympathize, cook great food for great people, walk the necessary few meters a day, etc.
But, it all boils down to one's search for answers, as many answers to as many questions as possible.
So, I will continue as long as I have questions.
Report Abuse
A very short while ago, there was a bomb aimed at army personnel vehicles near the HQ in Ankara. First news is that there are five or six dead and ten or more injured and that it may have been a car bomb.
This is probably PKK and not IS, because IS would target large groups of usually civilians and PKK would be getting its back for the killing of their members and Kurdish peoples in the Southeastern cities.
Let us hope that this bombing is not the spread of the civil war, the irrational Turkish government seems to have started against the Kurds in Turkey and the war against their friends and relatives in Iraq and Syria, to other parts of Turkey.
Report Abuse
indeed, let us hope so, OC, for all our sakes.
Report Abuse
Latest Official information is 21-22 dead 61 wounded.
Commentators on TV use the same rationale as I did and believe that this is a PKK or a subcontractor attack.
The vehicle is expected to have been a specially prepared one with very high explosive power, patented in Syria by IS, and it may even have been put together outside Turkey.
The dead and injured are almost all military personnel who were being bused to their homes. The explosion occurred as three of these buses were waiting at traffic lights. Usually 100 or more buses leave the gathering point every day.
Report Abuse
Body count up to 28, 27 armed forces personnel, and one TV reporter.
Government is despicably using the event for domestic and internatinal causes, possibly including an incursion into Syria and further clamp down on critics.
Here are some of my recent tweets :
Ahmet C. Celebiler @ahmetcelebiler 1m1 minute ago
#Turkish #PM blowing int'l bridges. Says YPG responsible for bomb despite PKK/YPG denial & any State not calling YPG terrorist is no friend.
32m32 minutes ago
Violence against human life is most disgusting, inhuman. How is it that it becomes worse when done by terrorists & State violence accepted?
35m35 minutes ago
14 suspects of Ankara bomb arrested. President says, more to follow. How do they know? Is this opportunity to silence critics & enter Syria?
13h13 hours ago
Was Tsipras flight to Iran diverted instead of flying over #Turkey because Turkey did not permit or because Greece feared risk of attack?
Ahmet C. Celebiler @ahmetcelebiler 16h16 hours ago
The "Fear and Loathing" in #Turkey received another push with a sophisticated car bomb targeting armed forces personnel in Ankara.
22h22 hours ago
I don't blame the major national non-governmental newspaper for exercising absolute auto-censorship, news and opinion, but will stop buying.
Report Abuse
so sad, OC, for everyone.
Keep safe.
Report Abuse
I'm so sorry, OC. Take care & know many of us are thinking of you & your beautiful country with kindest wishes.
Report Abuse
Thanks again Annhig and Bokhara2.
Seems like all I can do is write depressive poems :
Ahmet C. Celebiler @ahmetcelebiler 2m2 minutes ago
One opens boxes
In life,
And near-life.
Randomly fragile
Gifts and such.
In hope of one not empty
Report Abuse
I think living in great metropolises, and Istanbul, is certainly a great, great city, you are seduced by 21st life and forgot how close chaos can be.
Stay safe and strong you and your family.
Report Abuse
Finally, a ten month old grandson as profile photo.
Report Abuse
Congratulations on your beautiful grandson and take care OC. I am planning various trips in and out of Turkey as we speak! Hope it all holds together.
Report Abuse
what a lovely picture OC - is he as handsome as his grandad?
Report Abuse
Thanks gertie & ann,
being handsome is a state of mind!
our whole family follows the Roman thinker Sextus Empiricus.
Report Abuse
OC, have you read this from The Economist. I am half-way through it. Would be interested to see what you think from an insider point of view.
Report Abuse
gertie, thanks.
I already read this.
His analysis of current situation is quite good.
He does not have enough information on background and recent history of Turkey.
Turkey came out of the closet in 1983 and started an incredible liberalization move. This increased exports by multiples, allowed more imports, gave a big nudge for local industry and of'course made Turkish Lira fully convertible.
In mid 1990's there were economic problems due to mismanagement by the old leaders winning back into power, but the coalition of late 1990's allowing World Bank and IMF to advise Turkish economic and financial policy through a newly appointed, ecperienced economist, Kemal Dervis (former head of UNDP) put Turkey back on the right track.
Erdogan just continued to apply the same strategic plan started by the previous government.
His success was based on four major factors :
- Absolute United States backing with an army of American advisors handling a social engineering program for Turkey.
- Huge amounts of Islamist funds arriving from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf to assist the party and Erdogan in making Turkey an Islamic country.
- A much more accessible health plan, providing access to health care to previously disenfranchised populations.
- A huge project of providing coal, white goods & staple food items in the form of hand-outs. This reached very high levels in election years, but still continues.
Erdogan had already had training as an Islamic preacher. He was taught body language, voice effects and other factors which would show him as a charismatic leader in Turkey as part of the United States plan.
Erdogan's speeches and sermons were written by a well trained group of nameless people.
Part of this plan was conducted through Fethullah Gulen group activities.
However, Erdogan became too big for his breaches, starting about 2011-2012, and decided that he did not need any more trainig or advice, especially when the advice included warnings against his greed for more money and power.
When FG group activites increased against the army which the United States was not happy with and some of the media in 2008, Erdogan applauded and helped. However, FG power among the judiciary, the security forces and some Ministries like the Ministry of Education became apparent to Erdogan in 2011 and the fact that he had to share the power and the ensuing wealth with Gulen and his supporters became anathema.
Erdogan's reaction to Gulen forced Gulen to show his hand which they did by trying to arrest the most important Erdogan supporter, director of Turkish Intelligence. When this was not successful and Erdogan attacked back by tryin to close thousands of Gulen educational institutions and foundations in in Turkey, Gulen came up with illegal wire taps showing how Erdogan, his family and four of his close Ministers had been receiving bribes from Iranian sources and from some suddenly very rich group of Turkish businesmen. These wire taps were made public on national and social media. This made FG group and related businesses public enemy number one. Illegal activity, just like previously carried out by the Gulen Group, including false evidence, etc. are now fully in force against Gulen and his supporters. All Gulen TVs, almost all Newspapers and many fully functioning businesses have been expropriated by the government for aiding and abetting FG.
United States, I think rather dumbly, continued to believe that they could still deal best with Erdogan in the absence of any other candidate they could identify as friendly to US and capable. This was and is a mistake. It made Erdogan even more cocky, thinking that the United States needed him and would back anything he did, including curtailing human rights, verbally and physically attacking all neighbours, openly supporting A-Qaeda partners in Syria and secretly supporting Isis, and shooting down a Russian bomber which had crossed invaded a tiny piece of Turkish airspace for 12-17 seconds.
Erdogan has the same myopia that culturally exists in peoples with strong nomadic heritage who have difficulty in visualizing the future and thinking in time dimensional cause-effect relationships.
In the last four years he made large ethnic, ideological and religious groups hate each other in Tukey, opening a wasp's hive by his hate speeches and uncurtailed violent policies and actions.
The prime minister of Turkey acts as the cartoon character Iznogoud, and even lloks like him. We may find out the result of this struggle sooner than the readers of the cartoon found.
Report Abuse
thanks for taking the time to explain this to us, OC.
i cannot help thinking that it doesn't bode well when more than ever Turkey is going to need calm and wise heads in the months to come.
Report Abuse
> I don't blame the major national non-governmental newspaper for exercising absolute auto-censorship, news and opinion, but will stop buying.
Yes, I've noticed this. I've been a reader of the English web version of Hürriyet for a while now - http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/ - I like their archaeology page.
I sometimes glance at Zaman, and once in a while Sabah. I'm sorry to see a free press disappearing in Turkey. Perhaps if 50% of the country were to insult the president, then something might change. (Slightly amused, on a domestic level, by a husband reporting his wife to the authorities for doing that).
Report Abuse
or this one:
[if we applied this rule in the UK, half of Parliament would be in jug, including a lot of David Cameron's own party].
Report Abuse
Zaman is owned by Fettullah Guven group.
Sabah is owned by an Erdogan friend. So are many others.
Hurriyet group is one of two or three independent groups but are forced into a corner. Currently, there is only one truely outspoken columnist left at Hurriyet.
The English version is slightly better because they can probably get away because the Erdogan media watchers do not understand English well.
Hakan Sukur was and is a Fettullah Guven follower which automatically makes him an enemy of State. He is the parliamentarian who responded, "Our leaders know best, so ask them instead of me," when asked to give an opinion on a simple political or economic issue during his second or third year as a deputy.
Report Abuse
I do not mean to alarm anyone planning to visit Istanbul or Ankara in th very near future, but there is a copy of an official looking letter from the governor of Istanbul, unofficiallygoing around the social media, advising readers to beware of crowded places, Malls and especially the Metro and the metro bus stations and stops.
The note does not give source but says the threat could be from vehicles or people on foot.
The fact that the target appears to be civilian population points to IS rather than a Kurdish group.
Seems that the youth Erdogan promised to educate and train as "believers and avengers" some five years ago at a number of speeches are now ready to carry out their own agenda.
Report Abuse
Hi OC
I met up with my Swiss group last night and we are all still raving about our time in Istanbul. I truly believe many in the group returned to Switzerland with a different attitude towards Turkey and Muslims in general. Our tour guide was tremendous and your hospitality was unequaled.
Thanks again, OC!
Report Abuse
Kleeblat, thanks for reminding me of my Swiss friends. I can still visualize most of them sitting around our table.
BTW, I am still waiting for the great luck your four leaf clovers will bring me. Maybe you can find a few more this Spring and dedicate those to me from Switzerland. Their combination with my "Monkey Year" should do the trick.
Report Abuse
I really love your analysis OC.
And a man who cites Iznogood cannot be a bad man.
Report Abuse
Thanks, Whathello
The immediate warning has been lifted with the discovery of the fourth and last stolen vehicle purchased by suspected bombers.
Scary that the car was discovered at a parking lot at Bosphorus University, where I teach. But not close to the building where I teach or the parking lot I use.
It is always a good idea, though, to stay away from government, security and diplomatic buildings.
Report Abuse
Ahmet...so many of our Fodorites are thankful for your informative help in these troubled times. I thank you for what it's worth. Just don't p--- off the lunatic fringe at the "Midnight Express Hotel"...and in the words of the immortal Jerry Garcia of The Grateful Dead.....
keep on truckin' !!
Report Abuse
Hi Otherchelebi, Stu and Tower, great to see you are active and full blast, glad to be back All the best regards from Cappadocia....
Report Abuse
Things just seem to get worse:
I suppose there's no hope of getting rid of Erdogan any time soon. Ever?
Report Abuse
Worse, well now accelerating towards EU membership..
Report Abuse
It is developing as I forecast 21 years ago, a few months before the local elections, when I saw that Erdogan would win and become mayor of Istanbul.
He and his party use the standard format of "Enemies abroad and Enermies in the country" story rather too successfully, appealing to God, motherhood, country, (but not apple pie.)
The last objective daily newspaper, Hurriyet has also bowed to their threats and fired all but one of their critical columnists.
This group, Dogan, has also ended two more of their daily news and current event programs on CNNTurk last week and replaced one with a "fads and fashions" program and the other with a "Recent social events and arts" program.
Now, I have to depend on information I can get on Twitter and other internet sites.
Just last Sunday, the police attacked women marching for women's day in Istanbul, with plastic bullets, pepper gas and water cannon. And, just now, he is speaking about respect for women, urging his supporters to accept and treat women who do not cover their heads as equals!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ten years ago women with covered heads could not work for public institutions or attend school because head covering was seen as a political symbol of fundamentalist Islam, because the Koran says nothing specific about women being required to cover their heads.
Unfortunately almost all Islamic countries interpret some of the dubious sayings of the prophet and a verse of the Koran, which says, women should cover up their precious things, possibly meaning jewelery, as a requirement to cover up totally since men see women as property and do not like them to be displayed except as slaves at auctions.
Report Abuse
So what do you think about this OC? Not looking good.
Report Abuse
Paul Mason does not have all his facts straight,
But I do not believe Turkey will become an EU member in the near future, at least till Erdogan and his party disappear from the scene and islamist lose any majority they may have.
Currently, there is some negotiation leading to an exemption of Schengen visas for Turks to start in June, but EU countries are as wise if not wiser than Turkish Islamists and will know how to handle this as well as further demands by AKP which the Turks may use for local political purposes, either to show some EU countries as enemies or others as friends.
All I see in the recent negotiations with EU, Germany and Greece, is a great deal of hypocrisy, subterfuge, outright lying and sly handshakes, signifying nothing. This is definitely not diplomacy as it used to be, but fits the new world scheme.
Report Abuse
This just in from Aljazeera.
It mainly deals with refugees but also mentions Turkish citizens being allowed to travel to Schengen without a visa.
As us Brits are not part of Schengen and may not even be part of EU by end of June, I guess it won't affect me and I will need my electronic visa as usual!
Report Abuse
Another bomb in Ankara.
Location is a busy area for commuters, smack at city center. Also some government offices.
No details available regarding damage.
Media ban immediately in place regarding photographs or video.
Relatives who live about ten miles away said their home shook with the explosion.
Twitter down.
Will go to laptop for private IP address to get int'l and/or restricted by government info.
All friends and relatives safe.
Report Abuse
First official statement says 27 dead (20 on site) and 75 injured so far.
Report Abuse
I am so sorry to read this--just awful.
Report Abuse
So sad. Stay safe.
Report Abuse
It is interesting that United States Embassy published warning almost three days ago but specifying a different location.
(Was the target location changed after this semi-public announcement?)
I am now using a VPN and can check Twitter and write there.
Just two days ago Erdogan stated that "Islamic State cannot be where he is present" Was this a response to his false bravado?
No matter what the official statements will say, I am almost certain that this is an IS, Al-Nusrah or Assad or Russian perpetrated atrocity and not a Kurdish one. Of'course, the subcontractor may be of any type of background.
Report Abuse
No matter what the official statements will say, I am almost certain that this is an IS, Al-Nusrah or Assad or Russian perpetrated atrocity and not a Kurdish one. Of'course, the subcontractor may be of any type of background.>>
is it likely that the public will ever know?
both sides spin such atrocities for their own benefit - by which I mean IS and the Turkish government.
So sad for those caught in the middle.
Glad that you and yours are safe - please do your best to remain so.
Report Abuse
United States Embassy stated that they had the original information from turkish security forces.
Latest body count is 34 dead, 125 injured.
Here's my popular tweet of the last few hours :
"Will #Ankara police chief, Min. of Interior & Director of Intelligence get award, medal or just honorable mention after recent bomb?"
Report Abuse
Keep safe
Report Abuse
I see on Hurriyet that an Istanbul court arrested three Turkish academics yesterday for "making terrorist propaganda". Better watch your back, OC. As the State increasingly imperils free-speech what is next -the thought police?
Report Abuse
Mine is not a good example of "Free Speech". My DW controls all my thoughts and writing. The few occasions when she relinguishes her grasp my daughters pick up the slack Immediately.
Therefore, I am not responsible for what I write or even think. Fortunately, I can still move around, drive, escort them, cook for them and even compliment them (mostly under duress) and hence, I have not been institutionalized yet.
Report Abuse
as it should be!
Report Abuse
Another suicide bomb. This time in Istanbul on very busy istiklal Street, very close to the district governor's office.
4 dead, 36 wounded, 4-11 critical. Twelve foreigners identified, Israeli, Irish, Iranian. No Americans or Canadians as far as nedia reports go.
No friends or family mainly because we have been staying away from risky areas. Eser and I actually drove to Iznik yesterday afternoon.
I do not know what to say to potential visitors, any more.
The Turkish government is pushing it towards more violence while talking of a joint front against this terrorism, meaning government terrorism against all usual suspects including most Kurds, academics, media, critics, human rights activists.
Disappointingly the opposition, except for HDP, is also speaking of violent responses, despite five Southeastern Turkish cities completely or partially destroyed by Turkish tanks, cannon, even air strikes.
Possibly two hundred thousand or so inhabitants have had to leave the area where countless civilians and children have been killed, schools have been closed for months and there has been no medical service, water or electricity.
If you consider these people who are left destitute, homeless, with no jobs, no shops, no children sometimes, and their families and friends and others in potentially similar circumstances in the region, you can see the size of the pool for future terrorism and violence against the government and their supporters.
How can anyone in his right mind believe that this group of people will disappear as you continue killing and leaving homeless, jobless, hungry, destitute indiscriminately?
Report Abuse
Very sorry to hear the news. Also heard there was an explosion in Adana. Keep safe.
Report Abuse
I am so sorry about what is happening in Turkey, a country I have been happy to visit four times over the years. (The first was 1974, things have changed so much since then.) It is hard to see how the situation will improve with the current people in power.
However, if Istiklal Street is now considered a risky area, I cannot regret my decision not to visit this year.
Report Abuse
so sorry about the latest developments, OC. as you imply, the situation doesn't look as if it's going to get better any time soon.
What is your view about the "deal" with the EU? Personally I find the idea of "legal" and "illegal" refugees repugnant, though perhaps sitting in the far west of Britain that's easier for me to say than someone on Lesbos. Those returned to Turkey [and just HOW are they going to do that?] are not going to go quietly are they?
Like you I fear that there will be many more recruits to the ranks of the terrorists.
Report Abuse
I'm glad your family is okay, Other. I'm just heartsick looking at those photos of Istiklal and remembering how many times I walked down that stretch during my two trips there.
Report Abuse
The "deal" with EU is repugnant in a number of ways. Negotiating on lives of humans as cattle seems to be quite respectable for many Europeans and at least one American presidential wishful. Appearing to bow down to demands of wily ME aotocrats is also repugnant but has been popular for a long time. remember Kaddafi, Kings of Saudi Arabia and others.
The deal seems to be that EU will send back some refugees and receive others in equal numbers. Turkey will receive some funds to expedite this exchange and has also been promised free travel to EU and faster full membership but with the proviso that Turkey finalize 72 changes regarding democracy, opinion and speech freedom.
Turkey will not take the democratic measures and will accuse EU for not delivering to gain more domestic support for the autocracy. But they will take the 3-6 Billion euros to partially use it to move Syrian refugees to areas abandoned by the Kurds they attacked in Southeastern Turkey.
Latest info on today's bombing is that it was most probably an Islamic State bomb targeting a group of Israeli tourists. Of the four dead, three are Israeli and one Iranian. Details on the now 39 injured is not yet released except that 6-7 may be in critical condition.
The streets are empty over most of Istanbul.
We had a beautifully wood grilled medium rare filet of lamb tonight presented by the president of our Social Club. Tomorrow, I will get the materials for the cook to make a Thai-Italian-Turkish fusion hot spinach salad and eight hour roasted short ribs for our table of twelve at the Darka restaurant. We shall eat while wathching my (and Eser's) football (soccer) team beat their traditional rivals.
This is terrible. We are getting accustomed to living amidst all this violence.
Who knows, We may stay the full length of our visa in Chicago after we arrive late June, if our tenant does not renew his lease.
Report Abuse
OC - I can only agree with you.
how does one distinguish between the deserving and undeserving refugee?
It seems that Turkey is becoming less democratic not more, but the leaders of Europe have ceased to care.
Report Abuse
Dear OC,
I'm so sorry to hear about the bombing, which is not too far away from your own home. You've predicted the busy pedestrian-free street to be a possible target many times and, unfortunately, your predictions have come true.
As for the refugees, I think many in Europe are relieved that the flow is now being more controlled. Many question the validity of the refugee status these immigrants are professing. A few kilometers from my home in Switzerland, a refugee family (not sure if they were Eritrean or Syrian) was given housing and the children were taught some German. However, their refugee status has expired and the Swiss government has ordered them to return to their country. The family fled their home overnight and are now illegally living somewhere in Europe. This kind of reaction is not uncommon for those who are ordered to return to their home country.
My heart goes out to Turkey and all other surrounding nations for dealing with the major flow of the Syrian refugees. The answer is simple: bring peace and safety back to the Middle East and people will not leave. Unfortunately, this solution is easier said than done.
Wishing you the best, OC.
Report Abuse
Dear OC,
Thank you so much for your helpful and poignant posts. I was actually just considering a trip to Istanbul based on the non-information elsewhere until I read this. This is so sad.
May I selfishly ask you whether you think it would be safe to fly THROUGH Istanbul, making a connection at the airport, or might that now be one of the more dangerous places to be?
Many thanks,
Report Abuse
I am sadden to hear that the violence continues. I'm glad you and your family were not in IST.
Report Abuse
I believe that flying through Istanbul is as safe as flying through most major airports anywhere in the world.
If you are interested, I can also propose a one day itinerary which would absolutely minimize any risk.
This may be a little costly but definitely worthwhile :
- Check on the web for a decent motor yacht.
- Take short cab ride to Yesilkoy or Yesilyurt to a pier you can board the yacht.
- Go up to and through the Bosphorus and Golden Horn.
- Disembark at Emirgan.
- Visit Sabanci museum and eat at Muse De Changa Restaurant
- Board the boat and return to where you first took it.
- If you wish, the Polat Renaissance or similar hotel at Yesilyurt or a smaller traditional hotel at Yesilkoy will also be perfectly safe for a night or more.
This will give you terrific photographic opportunities and actually more of a perspective on the city than a standard tourist would get in some days.
If you have a good cultural guide, you will take some info back with you also, but studying for a few days before your trip and then identifying the sights can also be great fun.
Report Abuse
OC, we are heartbroken to read of this second bombing in Istanbul's city center. We stayed near Taksim and much preferred that area to Sultanhamet. Stay safe. Best wishes to you and your extended family at his difficult time.
Report Abuse
Thank you OC, however the cost would be absolutely prohibitive, and not the experience of soaking in the spirit of the place that I would want. Looks like I will have to hope to live long enough for another trip in 5 more years and heavens willing, we will be peaceful by then.
Report Abuse
Another scar on a wonderful country.
Report Abuse
Am deeply saddened at this second bombing, where is all going to end? And what did the warm and welcoming people of Turkey do to deserve this? My hear goes out to all of you and your beautiful country. DH and I had a fabulous time on our two visits in 2013 and 2014, we still hope to come back again.
As others say, we need to find a way to bring peace to the Middle East, helas, easier said than done! But we can continue to hope...
Report Abuse
Thanks geetika and all who commented.
After the bombs in Bruxelles, it seems that the Middle East is not the only part of the world that needs peace.
It is the hot bed and source as was Afghanistan a few years ag, but the mistakes that were made by the West are now hitting back and it seems that the Western leaders should not try to export their ideologies and values in fomenting political and leadership change in other parts of the world.
Report Abuse
Have I mentioned, otherchelebi, how much I appreciate your efforts to keep us all updated and informed? If not: You ROCK, otherchelebi -- thank you so much for keeping us updated and informed! And, of course, best wishes to all of you -- you, your family, your countrymen -- in those most difficult times.
Report Abuse
kja: I couldn't agree more.
Report Abuse
Thanks kja and kleeblat,
"rocking" reminds me of my eleven month grandson (soon to be a new profile picture) who starts rocking side to side to show happiness and pride for being able to do something like pushing his musical scooter down the corridor with no help.
It is a suspenseful waiting situation. I hear that life is almost fully back to normal in istanbul and we are considering going back Thursday or Friday. Have to attend housewarming party on Sunday.
In the meantime, we visited the birthplace of the Ottoman Empire on a short day and then drove to Bursa on the new faster but not scenic route to visit our Iznik neighbour who gave birth earlier yesterday.
She is a young pharmacist, from this area, as are both her parents. The new father is the Iznik dealer for Bosch-Siemens.
We had a decent kebap and some excellent "lahmacun" near the hospital, where the new grandfather also showed up with a bevy of females. When it was time for us to pay and leave the waiter said that our bill had already been settled. Today I went and bought $175 worth medicine at his pharmacy, sat on small chairs outside on the pedestrian street for some tea and chat on the political/safety situation.
Here's my new post with some photos on the Tuesday trip :
Report Abuse
How lovely to read about people going about their ordinary business, OC, and great photos!
And congratulations to the happy parents and their families. May their and their baby continue to enjoy a joyful and peaceful life.
Report Abuse
Dear OC,
My husband and I are heading to Turkey on April 28, landing in Istanbul and then departing out of Ankara on May 18. We are part of a Grand Circle Travel tour but it is mostly filled with friends and acquaintances of a friend of mine who is handling the logistics with GCT. The tour goes from Istanbul to Canakkale then on to Izmir, Pamukkale, Antalya and Cappadocia before winding up in Ankara.
We have been to Istanbul before in 2014 and we are eager to return and see more of the country, however recents events are somewhat unsettling, so I would like to ask your thoughts on the current situation vis-a-vis our prospective travel plans. Should I be worried? In general, we are not timid or fearful travelers but we would like to be realistic about about risk level involved. I read your post above where you said re: the Istiklal bombing "No friends or family mainly because we have been staying away from risky areas" so I wonder what you consider the risky areas (probably the places all the tourists go
Also, though GCT hasn't confirmed the specific Istanbul hotel, they listed it as "Titanic City Hotel or similar". Now the Titanic City is in the Taksim Square area and we will be staying there on May Day (May 1). Now I know over the past few years the labor demonstrations in and around Taksim Square have gotten out of hand, with tear gas & water canons being used on the crowd. Hence, I am rather concerned that spending the nights of April 30 and May 1 near the square could be problematic. Should I be concerned?
Thank you in advance for any advice or insights that you are able to provide.
Report Abuse
eveningcrane, (I like your name)
In general, I would trust the Tour operators and the tour guide to know what they are doing, where to lead the group and what to tell them as needed during the period of travel.
Titanic hotel is almost in Taksim, but not quite. It is about three-four hundred meters from Taksim Square and in an area of crisscrossing not very wide streets. I would not expect tear gas or water from a water cannon to make it to the hotel in full force, even if they are used.
It is almost certain that the governor, who has already banned a May 1 march to Taksim, and has succeesfully blocked off the area will station his men at least 500 meters to a kilometer away from the square.
If there are some protests, they will start about mid morning and probably dissipate by the evening.
Finally, the protesters on May 1 will not pause a safety problem to any tourists in the area. The risk would be the security forces using unnecessary force indiscriminately. This you could easily avoid by keeping away from marching chanting crowds which will not be using thestreet Titanic hotel is situated.
Also, I saw the phrase "Titanic or Similar" and the similar would refer to the stars and quality of the hotel rather than location.
All in all, May 1 would be a great day to spend on the Bosphorus, partially on the sea and partially on the shores. If the tour has something else scheduled, you may get them to change it or form a new group.
Keep up the communication here and I will continue posting on any new developments related to your concerns.
Report Abuse
Thank you for your prompt reply. We were generally positive about this trip but it is always better to get a reality check from more knowledgable sources and your reply confirmed our general outlook. Among the 30 or so other participants on this tour, we have had reactions ranging from "What, me worry" to a few nervous Nellies to one outright doom and gloom soothsayer. We fall somewhere between the first two categories.
May 1 is actually a free day on our tour itinerary. However April 30 will also be a free day for my husband and myself, since on that day the tour group is going to places that we toured previously in 2014, so we are going off on our own.
One of the things we didn't get to do last time was a Bosphorus cruise so that is definitely on the agenda this time. During my internet searches, I came across a company Bosphorus Tours and they have a half day morning cruise depating from Kabatas (with hotel pick-up) and stops at Ortakoy, Kucuksu Palace and Rumeli Fortress, with return transport to either our hotel or Sultanahmet. This seems (at least on their website) like an interesting cruise. Are you familiar with this cruise? Do you have any recommendations or suggestions with respect to a Bosphorus cruise?
Again thanks for your feedback. I will keep in touch and hopefully the next month will be uneventful.
Report Abuse
Hi again P,
The cruise sounds fine.
You can actually leave the cruise at the Rumeli Fortress, take a short cab ride to Emirgan, the next village up, and to Sabanci Museum to have an interesting and tasty fusion lunch, which will also give you chance to visit the museum free.
The grounds of Sabanci mansion are lovely, adjacent to famous Emirgan Park which also houses two or three Ottoman Empire chalets.
Walk down from your lunch and museum visit to Emirgan proper and have your tea or coffee at Ozsut Caffee, under the ancient plane tree.
From there, if you still wish to delay your return to the hotel. take the small Bosphorus criss-cross ferry to Kanlica for another small glass of tea and/or the special Kanlica yoghurt right next to the ferry landing.
There are some interesting old (mostly renovated) homes and mansions up on the hill above Kanlica and the side streets leading upward are good examples of the laid back life style of simple Turkish folk.
Another idea is to walk up the hill, South of Rumeli fortress, next to the cemetary and ask to be admitted to Bosphorud University campus, one of the most beautiful in Europe.
Bosphorus University was a combination of a prep schhol called Robert Academy and a small university called Robert College, with history dating back to 1863.
I am a 100th year graduate of the Academy and then a graduate of the College for my undergrad degree. In fact, I teach one course/year there now.
You may also be interested in the famous Taksim Gezi Park protests of June, 2013. My photographs, some with funny comments are on the following blog :
We were up, walking about throughout these protests as were many other people including tourists as you can see and were never worried about our safety.
However, this time, we would not take the risk in view of ISIS.
If you write to me at my book gmail, [email protected] , I can give you my mobile which you can call for assistance
Report Abuse
"Turkey 'demands deletion' of German video mocking Erdoğan"
here is a link to the offending video with English subtitles
Report Abuse
Thanks Willit,
So few people can laugh at themselves in the world even when what you have done is worth a smile or a laugh. In this case, he believes he will start laughing when he has taken care all his enemies, be they foreign governments, different races, different religions, the media, intellectuals, academics, leftists, socialists, philosophers, thinkers, rational people, historians, psychologists, humourists, satirists, etc.
Report Abuse
with a list of enemies like that, it's amazing that there are any people left to be his friends.
oh look...
Report Abuse
wondering what you make of the US decision to tell dependents of American personnel working in a few areas of Turkey to leave Turkey.
Report Abuse
The US State Dept. has also updated its travel warning for Turkey:
Report Abuse
I know this is a thread on safety but I am including my Trip report on here as it has much to do with recent events...
Report Abuse
If Jean-Claude Juncker needs a word of Turkish, it should be this:
Which I found in my 1988 Berlitz phrase book years ago and have almost succeeded in learning how to say.
Report Abuse
Thanks all,
the state dept warning is not much different than mine.
the threat seems to be escalating in view of number of stopped and unstopped terrorists in Europe in general.
I still see no direct threat to local and/or foreign civilians from any Kurdish group, but the indirect risk is high in areas of violent activity by the security forces.
Isis seems to have established a sizable base in Turkey. The Turkish government Directorate of Religious Affairs and the Ministry of Education are rather dumbly or worse still, intentionally making sure that the Turkish children are brought up and educated in Jihadism and the Paradise as the only worthwile vision any Moslem can have. They either do not realize that this is what Isis has been preaching or believe that their next step in education will be to show that "love of Erdogan" will be another sure way to Paradise.
Report Abuse
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Report Abuse
You might find this interesting:
Report Abuse
Thanks sandralist. An article with some errors but simple and valid in outlook.
BTW, I just changed my profile picture to Grandson at age 11 months and 1 week. (Today)
Report Abuse
Erdogan speaking at Brookings Institute live on CNNTurkey, just now.
In Turkish, naturally, since he knows no other languages except a smattering of Arabic.
I am really glad grandson was born in US.
Report Abuse
I just saw the video from the base in Ramstein, Germany where all the American soldiers families were evacuated from Turkey today. They left with just their suitcases so the USO, Red Cross and the base are helping them get settled in. Many will stay in Germany and finish out the school year, others will be coming back to the states. They brought their pets, kids and some clothing.
Report Abuse
flpab - at whose instigation was the exit of the american families from Turkey? it sound like a worrying development.
Far even more concerning though is the news reported on the BBC radio news this morning that some Syrian refugees are being sent back into Syria by the Turkish authorities; if the reports are true [and they are part of a report by Amnesty] it seems that this has been happening regularly since January and of course cuts a swath through the plan to send refugees back from Greece to Turkey:
<<New research carried out by the organization in Turkey's southern border provinces suggests that Turkish authorities have been rounding up and expelling groups of around 100 Syrian men, women and children to Syria on a near-daily basis since mid-January. Over three days last week, Amnesty International researchers gathered multiple testimonies of large-scale returns from Hatay province, confirming a practice that is an open secret in the region.
All forced returns to Syria are illegal under Turkish, EU and international law.>>
Here's the full report:
it makes chilling reading.
Report Abuse
"at whose instigation was the exit of the american families from Turkey?"
I heard on the news several days ago that it was the Pentagon ordering military families to evacuate southern Turkey, primarily from Incirlik Air Base. Also evacuations from facilities in Izmir and Mugla were ordered.
Report Abuse
The recall of American military and other government personnel families was made last week by the Pentagon and the State Department because of intelligence received increasing the terrorist threat by a number of Isis groups having crossed the border into Turkey from Syria.
The forced returns of Syrian groups from Turkey are also partially due to this type of information. It is an over 500 mile border some of which have ISIS control in Syria and they continuously try to infiltrate under different guises.
Also, do not forget that Turkey has approximately three million Syrian refugees already. Some Southeastern cities have mor Syrians than Turks.
When you copy, " All forced returns to Syria are illegal under Turkish, EU and international law.>> you should consider those who cross as "illegal aliens" rather than "asylum seekers" because those who ran from Isis already came through. The likelihood that the new groups coming over are those running over from the forces liberating the Islamic State lands is much bigger. In fact, the major request of United States and EU from Turkey has been to stop these illegal crossings.
Hence, it is difficult to understand most of what goes on in that horribly destitute part of the Middle Eastern region where nothing and no one seem to be what and who they are.
The original cause of the huge migration was due to Turkey and the United States indiscriminately supplying arms to all groups fighting against the lawful but authorian government of Syria, allowing the formation of the Islamic State from the association of fundamentalist groups including Al-Qaeda offshoots.
The first million or so refugees were those running away from the fighting against Assad while the fundamentalist forces tried to take over and establish their enclaves. Unfortunately, United States and Turkey were joined by Qatar and Saudi Arabia in supplying the fundamentalists, bunching them together under the name of "rebels"
Turkish aim was to get rid of Assad quickly and set up a protected area in Northern Syria, allowing the fomation of a new fundamentalist territory governed by the Sunnites of the Islamic Brotherhood. Hence, all these groups of mostly Sunnite refugees were welcomed in Turkey. The belief was that they would soon be sent back to replace the Assad supporting Alewite/Shiite and the Kurdish populations on the border areas.
This did not materialize because Isis was established and grew fast, the Kurds proved strong enough to protect themselves from all fundamentalist groups and Assad refused to disappear from the scene supported by Russia and Iran.
Turkey is still trying to dislodge the Kurds from the border but with no success because the United States sees the Kurds as an ally against the Islamic State which has now become the biggest enemy. This is the big current issue and stands against Erdogan's visions of a Turkish Empire with himself as the Sultan.
Unfortunately, Erdogan's recent visit to the United States, starting on a sour note developed into increased support from the Obama administration, the Brookings Institute and CNN.
Here's my recent frantic tweeter activity while checking news from Washington D.C. :
11 hours ago
With the relations between Turkey and US on the mend, will Obama change his decision not to attend opening ceremony of new mosque in MD?
celebiler 13h13 hours ago
Turkish media, including CNNTurk reported that Obama bowed down to Erdogan and they had a 50 minute meeting. Later PR was by Amanpour.
celebiler 13h13 hours ago
Global increase in number of fools is probably not significant, but more apparent due to social media & self advertising as such..
celebiler Mar 31
TurkishPres says he welcomes criticism as long as it isn't insulting. If he considers it insulting,he will sue. Critics need approved list.
celebiler Mar 31
TurkishPresident uses the royal "We" in answering questions. Also says "My Intelligence Director" when mentioning the Agency. BrookingsFP
celebiler Mar 31
Rationality, expertise in speaking to intellectual groups shouldn't be expected from a ME pol leader used to diff. audience. BrookingsFP
tcelebiler Mar 31
Erdogan made the qualified statement, "Turkey is the most advanced country in terms of fighting against terrorism." BrookingsFP Meaning?
Ahmet C. Celebiler @ahmetcelebiler Mar 31
Erdogan blames Assad for creating & feeding #Isis', sneers at risk of vacuum in Syria after Assad but offers no alternative. BrookingsFP
celebiler 10h10 hours ago
TurkishPresident put fear of God into US Administration, police, media and spectators at WashingtonDC, Thanks Brookings for the chance.
Celebiler Retweeted Yochi Dreazen
Turkish Security effective against protesters and journalists in WashingtonDC. Lesson for Americanbodyguards!
Report Abuse
When you copy, " All forced returns to Syria are illegal under Turkish, EU and international law.>> you should consider those who cross as "illegal aliens" rather than "asylum seekers" because those who ran from Isis already came through. The likelihood that the new groups coming over are those running over from the forces liberating the Islamic State lands is much bigger. In fact, the major request of United States and EU from Turkey has been to stop these illegal crossings.>>
OC - I agree that some may not what they seem, but the Amnesty report focussed on the scandal of children being separated from their mothers, pregnant women being sent back to desolate camps, and other inhumanities, apparently because they lacked the right papers that other agencies had refused to give them.
Of course the EU wants to stop more people leaving Syria but calling them illegal is not going to work; they are simply the ones who left it too long to leave.
And where have the people of Palmyra gone? it was deserted when the Syrian Army got there. did they leave voluntarily, frighted of their "liberators" or have they been kidnapped? there are news reports to massacre sites being found; undoubtedly there are going to be more refugees trying to escape ISIS wherever they try to take control.
Report Abuse
Interesting view of the effect of Merkel's ill-considered policy from Germany:
Report Abuse
After scouring news sources for anything approximating the dire news above, I am forced to conclude the the Turkish media is as delusional as President Erdogan.
Still wish Obama had snubbed the little dictator.
Report Abuse
Is this for real
"celebiler 10h10 hours ago
TurkishPresident put fear of God into US Administration, police, media and spectators at WashingtonDC, Thanks Brookings for the chance.
Celebiler Retweeted Yochi Dreazen
Turkish Security effective against protesters and journalists in WashingtonDC. Lesson for Americanbodyguards!"
Where is this news coming from re Erdogan's time in DC?
Report Abuse
Yes, Pentagon order it.
Report Abuse
Fra Diavola & Yestravel,
The Turkish pro-Erdogan or threatened media is not delusional.
this is the only way they can survive.
It is difficult for you to discern the powers of the supposedly figurehead president. he controls the police, the army and the justice system as well as education, interior affairs, economy, etc.
I tweeted above as "Irony"
because, I do not believe the United States government understands Erdogan's powers and vision for a Khalifate, and they goad him on as long as they mistakenly believe he works to extend United States interests.
The main thrust of Obama's meeting with Erdogan was his trust and partnership against terrorism. But according to Erdogan most Western media, many Turkish academicians and repporters are terrorists. So he thinks Obama feels the same way.
Report Abuse
"I tweeted above as "Irony""
I understood that it was not your position. I was surprised that the Turkish media would print such rubbish, forgetting how Erdogan has muzzled them.
Sorry you have to live through these dark days.
Report Abuse
It is difficult for you to discern the powers of the supposedly figurehead president. he controls the police, the army and the justice system as well as education, interior affairs, economy, etc.>>
and recently had beaten up some lawyers whose only offence was to defend some other lawyers who had been charged with the heinous crime of doing their jobs [ie defending people charged with crimes]:
humour of course is something that dictators dislike above everything because it punctures their inflated impressions of themselves.
Report Abuse
Here's the report on Erdogan's visit to the new mosque. Reported in the local section of the Washington Post.
Report Abuse
The Washington Post reporter made one glaring mistake and then wrote his indiscriminating observation.
The mistake is that the institution is called:
"Amerika Diyanet Merkezi" which translates to
"American Religious Affairs Center"
The building(s) have no reference to Turkey or Turks although it was supported and sponsored by the Department of Religious Affairs of the Turkish Republic."
Erdogan's was a pure missionary zeal reflecting his Islamic fundamentalism, supported by the United States administration as "Moderate Islam"
While this has been going on in Washington, DC, The U.S. State Department warning was extended to cover touristic provinces and cities such as Mugla which comprises places like Marmaris, Kas, Fethiye and Izmir which also possibly means Foca, Cesme, Sivrihisar, Gumuldur, Sardis.
The inclusion of the touristic zones in addition to the big cities and the obvious border towns is probably based on received information, clandestine and publicized.
Under the circumstances, my advice is to view Turkey as a zone 3 risk area on a scale of 5 in general, with places like Cappadocia and parts of Istanbul as zone 2, direct border areas as zone 5, Ankara and Eastern borders as zone 4, Black Sea coast, European Turkey and parts of Istanbul as zone 1.
We are at Iznik again and will visit a mountain lake near Bolu tomorrow with one of my former employees and his wife who are settled at Duzce. Will try to post about our day trip on my blog.
The six cats and three dogs we are feeding here in addition to the fifteen or so ducks, the many rabbits, hedgehogs and various fowl are totally disinterested in Erdogan, Trump or Hillary.
They may be calling our home "The Feeding Affairs Center" and soon may even attach religious significance to it if we stay here long enough.
Report Abuse
Did you notice that fighting has broken out again in Nagorno-Karabakh? (I only noticed because I get the NYT morning and evening emails for Europe and Asia as well as the US.) I particularly noticed this paragraph which has disappeared from the more recent reports;
"Russia and Turkey, the most important rival powers in the South Caucasus, had in recent years tentatively cooperated in tamping down tensions in Nagorno-Karabakh, but they are now at odds over Syria's civil war. Russia has backed Armenia, while Turkey has backed Azerbaijan."
I enjoyed my brief visit to N-K, am really sorry to hear that fighting has started up again.
Report Abuse
There may be something in what you wrote Thhursdaysd although we will never know the details.:
Here's my latest tweet:
Any association between #TurkishPresident calling protesters members of Asala, PKK, YPG and the hostilities between #Armenia & #Azerbaijan?
Report Abuse
Off to attend wedding of friend's daughter to a son of new Erdogan aristocracy. The father is the one building the new Blue Mosque replica on Camlica Hill and son works with him.
1,200 guests plus bodyguards. Our beloved by all president will probably act as one of the witnesses at the civil ceremony on site which will be conducted by the mayor of Istanbul.
The bride's side will probably a minority huddling together in modern garb. Will post Eser in her new outfit showing some bosom amd leg to offset the females from groom's family and friends.
Off to tie my bowtie........
Report Abuse
Enjoy, OC. We look forward to a blow by blow account [and the pictures of Eser of course]
Report Abuse
how many bodyguards do you need? what if they ....
Report Abuse
Trust there will be no blows, lol. Have fun and kudos to Eser.
Report Abuse
Before I get to the real stuff:
The April 9 American Embassy warning is both an alarm and a deterrent.
The bad guys follow these missives also and hopefully they will refrain doing anything in the mentioned cities and areas. But they may change their venues.
The warning is also a good sign that American and Turkish intelligence is uo-to-date and collaborating.
When the German consulate gave a warning for Istanbul a few eeks ago, the event took place at Ankara.
I cannot put anyone's mind at ease for coming to Turkey. For some regions, risks are significant, possibly meaning over 1%.
For Istanbul, staying on the Bosphorus or the Asian side, taking regular ferries or special personal yacht tours will definitely make the risk insignificant.
Coming to the wedding :
I will naturally write about it and post photographs on my blog.
But, in the meantime, I can whet your appetite with the following:
- The president and first lady came but she did not follow him to the podium.
- The Speaker of the Parliament and the chief Vice PM were also witnesses.
- There were one or more Saudi or Gulf Sheiks among the invitees with their special bodyguards.
- We suspected that about one third of the males were security and intelligence operatives.
- The car park and the security entrance for the serfs like us was almost half a mile away. (Eser hated walking on heels with her osteo-arthritic toes. Although we had hired a very official looking black Uber Mercedes Van, we were not allowed to get to the protocol or VIP entrance.
- The food was ample and quite tasty but nothing special.
- There were alcohol free fruit cocktails and no fizzy drinks. I asked one barman how much he would want to put a shot of vodka in my fruit cocktail, but he did not even smile.
- There were quite a few women regularly dressed.
- I would estimate about 60-70% with the politically correct Islamic head dress and covered top to ankle, a few with elaborate designer outfits.
- There were almost no plunging necklines or backs or very long slits. I spied only one mini skirt.
- The president repeated himself only once and gave the same spiel about demanding at least three children.
- There was a Koranic recitation lasting 7.2 minutes before the ceremony.
- The president received mediocre applause when announced and slightly more after his speech, There were quite a few who did not applaud like us.
- There was no music until it was time for the couple to appear on the staircase, and then there was a Turkish Pop group.
- We were there about 7:45 and left at 10 PM, the first from the group of 7 couples of our circle of friends.
- The bride's mother was wearing Dolce Gabana.
Report Abuse
Must have been quite the wedding! I bet Eser looked fabulous.
Report Abuse
vice PM, is that PM in charge of vice?
Report Abuse
Don't know if you saw this
I am big fan of this particular satirist. Sad.
Report Abuse
Sandralist. I have seen the poetry reading with a Turkish translation. It really was of bad taste, leaving a grimace instead of a smile or a laugh. Much worse than Don Rickles, Lenny Bruce or other similar American comedians. I cannot imagine a British comic like him. Piling insults rather than insinuations is very German , though because subtlety is not a German cultural trait.
There was a previous program which featured a much funnier song about Erdogan.
bilboburgler, vice is usually for the PM and all Middle Eastern PMs have a strong desire to become an authority on vice ethically and morally and control it financially.
Currently at Urla, a friend's country home, away from the Islamic Summit taking place only a kilometer or two awy from our home, blocking all traffic in the greater district.
Will also try to go to Chios for a night and day. It is just a few hours ferry ride from nearby Cesme. I hope they do not mistake us for refugees
Report Abuse
Doesn't matter to me if anybody found it funny , or even if it was in the worst possible taste. I wasn't offering a comedy critique. It's beside the point. Erdogan's response and Merkel's tagalong, but in particular the threats made to the comedian's family, is inimical to the values of free speech. Yanis Varoufakis put up a good statement stressing the importance of protecting satire in the EU -- even as he pointed out that German satirists had very much hurt him as the Finance Minister for Greece.
Report Abuse
It has been two months since I posted here.
The slack was somewhat taken by a few other threads such as that on "Safety"
New state of affairs :
- Former partner of the governing party AKP, the Fettullah Gulen Organization is now labelled as "terrorist organization."
All FG plants, supporters and even fans in the security forces, estimated at 4-5,000 have either been demoted, transferred to insignificant posts, arrested or forced to resign.
The FG supporters within the judiciary, totalling over 4,000 public prosecutors, judges and high court judges including those who spoke against the take over of the judiciary by Erdogan or refused to do his will regarding the "terrorist" or "insulting the president" charges directed at all critics, intellectuals, students, university staff, journalists, reporters, NGOs and bar associations, have also been forcefully transformed, demoted or required to resign.
All the FG supporting industrial, commercial companies, including TVs, newspapers, hotel chains, have been taken over by the government. The newly appointed boards have sold most, fired staff, converted the media companies to support AKP, or lead them to bankruptcy.
There are only three minor TV channels and four independent newspapers left which provide unbiased and un-censored information.
- The government denied blatantly the rapprochement with the Kurdish militia after the Kurdish political party HDP reached the parliament with about eighty deputies after the June 2015 elections.
They started provoking attacks to the security forcs and then bombing PKK locations in Turkey and in Northern Iraq, escalating the process to the point where six Southeastern cities were partially or totally demolished using tanks, cannon and bombers, forcing over half a million people to migrate, destroying tens of thousands of homes and businesses and possibly killing an unknown number of Kurdish residents of all ages, in addition to their boasts of over two thousand PKK kills.
The PKK continues to target security forces but have also hit innocent bystanders. It can be extremely risky for any local resident or traveler if the PKK decides that they will change tactics or strategy to draw more attention to the plight of the Kurds.
The Islamic State is also active but possibly not much more than they are in Europe and the United States.
Their three largest attacks were against Kurds, labour unions, labour syndicates, socialists and human rights activists. It is possible that the security forces dragged their feet in terms of prevention or reduction of fatalities on these three major bombings.
However, the security forces have foiled IS attacks at civilian and/or foreign targets within the major cities, with only two suicide bombers slipping through.
Actually, we have no idea who the perpetrators are of any bombing or terrorist attack. We have to depend on government statements which are notoriously and rather ignorantly false and illogical.
Erdogan has stopped the rhetoric against Russia, sending him a message for the Russian National Day, professing desire to get back to the good old friendship days before Turkish F16s were ordered to shoot down a Russian bomber carrying out a raid against the Islamic State in Northern Syria which had crossed the Turkish air space for all of seven seconds; but Putin does not seem inclined to let him get away so easily.
This situation is still acceptible in safety terms to most tourism and has actually lead to some great bargains in hotel and rental car rates.
The depreciation of the Turkish Lira has also meant "Cheap Eats".
Main dishes at many decent restaurants are $10-15, although wine and beer have gotten more expensive due to taxation on alcoholic drinks which the government imposes with Islamist zeal.
Also, unfortunately, many restaurants charge double to triple the retail price of wine and a quarter of the bottle price for a glass possibly measuring one sixth.
The first major meat restaurant on the Bosphorus, and possibly the only one, Kasibeyaz at Tarabya is serving delicious Southeastern specialities so that you will not need to risk going to those regions.
I will soon be taking a month vacation to Chicago with a week at the Pacific Northwest, but will report if anything happens which concerns the visitor to istanbul and Turkey.
Thanks to all who have followed this thread.
Report Abuse
Thanks for the update, although it is really depressing reading. Ataturk must be spinning in his grave.
Report Abuse
Good to have news of you, OC, though in somewhat trying circumstances.
It is ironic that at a time when he is pushing for EU membership, Erdogan introduces measures that should make that less likely; as well as the attacks on the press and the judiciary that you describe, I read in professional publication that not only had lawyers been arrested for doing their jobs but the lawyers who defended them were arrested too.
I hope you enjoy Chicago and return to a land which is less riven by strife [though I fear that may not be the case any time soon].
Report Abuse
Thanks for the update. Have a good trip!
Report Abuse
The BBC website today is reporting that numbers of tourists to Turkey have dropped by as much as 40%, despite prices being low.
I'd love to go back to Istanbul (Quite possibly the most fascinating city I've ever visited) , but I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable doing so.
I'm not overly worried about terrorism, but feel that another visit might in some way condone what is happening in the country with regards the seemingly growing dictatorship that is Erdogan and his government. Is this irrational - does this attitude hurt normal Turks while doing nothing that helps the situation?
Report Abuse
willit - If we start thinking that by going to a country we are giving succour to its dodgy rulers we won't have many places left to visit. Personally I think that the more contact there is between different peoples, even the sort that most tourists get does a lot more than most politicians can do.
I'm sure that the turkish people you meet will welcome you with open arms!
Report Abuse
annhig - maybe my stance needs explanation. I grew up in South Africa , under the Apartheid regime. Every visit by every pop group, film star, sports team or even common tourists was portrayed as an endorsement of the government.
I really liked Istanbul, and 99% of the Turks I met were really pleasant, hospitable, friendly people. The politics I found really distasteful, and it has got far worse since I was there in October.
Report Abuse
I had the same perspective when we considered visiting Myanmar in 1998, especially because a political web site appealed to the potential tourist not to visit because it would mean an endorsement.
They were possibly correct because all tourists had to xchange a certain amount of hard currency per day at exorbitant rates at government stations and the government would benefit greatly from tourists.
However, in Turkey, tourists would benefit the people when they purchase goods and services. In fact, if they pay in cash the government will probably even lose tax revenue.
The figures for unemployed tourism sector employees reach six figures, and Turkey does not provide unemployment payments.
So, visiting Turkey will not be seen as supporting the dictatorial government unless you visit their Islamist supporter hotels and resorts.
Report Abuse
otherchelebi - I value your insights, I will seriously reconsider my opinion.
Report Abuse
otherchelebi - how would I distinguish those hotels? I'm currently booked for two nights at the WOW airport hotel, is that OK?
Comment has been removed by Fodor's moderators
Report Abuse
praying for you otherchelebi - please let us know that you are ok if you can
Report Abuse
yes, if you can please let us know you're ok.
Report Abuse
OC is still tweeting as of an hour ago:
Report Abuse
Hoping everyone is safe in Turkey. Lovely people.
Report Abuse
According to the twitter feed, OC is in Chicago.
Report Abuse
that is a relief!
Report Abuse
Yes, OC and Eser are in the US.
Report Abuse
I hope OC is able to weigh in here.
Report Abuse
Sending other, his family, and his nation my best wishes.
Report Abuse
Thanks everyone.
Eser and I appreciate your concern and friendliness.
I have been glued to twitter and some Turkis friends on whatsUp.
Wrote a short summary and some of my tweets at the thread on the coup.
I wonder if we can or should fly back next week.
daughter, sister eser's father and families safe.
No word from our maid or cats at our home near taksim square where we hear of news of explosions, gun fights and "Allah Akbar" chanting fanatics.
Report Abuse
Glad to hear that both are you are safe. Hoping your maid and cats are ok. Could be an interesting view from your balconey but probably better out of Turkey for the present.
Report Abuse
OC, first of all, I am glad to read that you and your family are all safe. And I am dreadfully sorry for all Turkish people that their suffering has increased so much recently.
A question: I am really curious. How widespread do you think Islamicism has grown across "regular" Turkey? Is it a loud (and powerful/forceful) minority? Or do you think efforts to convince moderates have been somewhat successful over the years? I have a few free-wheeling Turkish friends, very secular, and I worry about them and their families.
Report Abuse
My thoughts are with Turkey, otherchelebi and his family. Such a beautiful and friendly country to visit.
Report Abuse
Leely2 and all, thanks
Unfortunately a local kind of Islamism has been raised from the dead.
My idea has always been that you can never have "Moderate Islam", an issue I have frequently debated with a former professor and a chapter president of the Foreign Policy Council.
There are two groups hitting the streets. One is the Arabic type throwbacks to the Ottoman Empire with word, thought and appearance. There are not too many of these, at most 1-2%. Then there is the majority who are going to mosque on Fridays and when they feel they should for political or social reasons. Their livelihood and potential of wealth seems to depend on their seeming religious views and their obeisance. This group is anywhere from 40 to 55%.
I am afraid, the true secularist will suffer emotionally if not in terms of curtailed liberties in the coming years.
Report Abuse
Glad you and yours are well.
I think the future means a more dictatorial Erdogan.
As always stay safe and strong.
Report Abuse
Glad to hear your family is safe. As always thank you for your insights.
Report Abuse
Here's a good article with photos and all:
Was the Turkish Coup an Erdogan Hoax?
Andrew Anglin
Daily Stormer
July 16, 2016
Now, one of the questions is, will United States lift ban on flying between America and Turkey by this Wednesday, so we can get home.
Second question is, do we really wish to go home.
Third question is, can we handle everything from Chicago without going home within the next fortnight.
Tough times; but every now and then I see from our 50th floor window, a train passing in the distance which has just one or two bright coloured wagons in between the drab depressing dark brown/grey ones
Report Abuse
OMG, other -- what tangled webs can be woven! I wonder if we will ever know the truth....
Thanks for passing on that article, and of course and again, best wishes for many more brightly colored wagons.
Report Abuse
Ahmet & Eser
I was happy to check in here & see that you are safe in Chicago. It looks like Erdogan is using this opportunity (whether real or manufactured) for a major cleanup of all opposition. So your questions become even more pertinent. Best wishes.
Report Abuse
I don't know how many judges there are overall in Turkey, but sacking 2,700 of them must make a considerable hole in the numbers of the judiciary.
Given the number of arrests it looks as if many of the cases of the detainees are going to be substantially delayed. [if they are ever reached at all].
I wouldn't be in any rush to go home, OC.
Report Abuse
Thanks, again,
Here's a Twitter response I received from a Turkish fundamentalist in Holland :
ADALET (justice)
Jul 17
@ahmetcelebiler you are lie , none care about modern people like you having bow- tie. #Istanbul care about military attack .
I blocked him immediately.
Report Abuse
OC..you sure know how to pick 'em...Chicago murder capital of USA and now the flopped coup in Turkey, almost 100 killed and maimed in Nice...cool down your message when you get back to Turkey, Stay well
Report Abuse
It is sad that my first reaction on hearing of the coup was to assume that the President had engineered it.
As we used to say in business "never let a crisis go wasted".
Report Abuse
My heart goes out to you, Ahmet, and your wife and family and am glad to hear that you are safely ensconced in Chicago. My heart, too, to Turkey, and for the upheavals that the country continue to go through. You have many serious conflicts that you are facing right now and I wish you strength and courage for getting through it.
Thank you, too, for keeping us up to date and involved in your ongoing thoughts regarding the country.
Report Abuse
Suddenly FAA lifted the ban and we ere told that turkish Airlines will start flying tomorrow evening, when we visited their Chicago office.
Otherwise, we were at a loss on the basis of lots of conflicting rumours.
So we fly to Istanbul Wednesday, come what way;
To avoid Taksim Square
and all malls
and all restaurants where Islamists may suddenly appear in the street to confront one,
to visit Metro only for heavy house shopping,
taxis and ferry boats for traveling.
Will probably sell car also, although it is useful to take us to Nicaea.
Report Abuse
Best of luck, OC. Will be very interested to hear your reports from Istanbul as I still expect to be there for two nights in September.
Report Abuse
Safe travels, other; and best wishes for some difficult and undoubtedly heart wrenching times ahead.
Report Abuse
Good luck for your return. Hope to hear how it goes for you.
Report Abuse
OC, please let us know that you've arrived home safely.
Report Abuse
yes, safe travels and good luck at home.
Report Abuse
Safe travels & keep you head down when you get home. It is increasingly looking like it is not a good time to be a secularist in your homeland.
Report Abuse
Thanks again,
Will try to write tomorrow.
In the meantime, enjoy:
Trump and the Sultan at NYT
Report Abuse
Thanks, OC. The other article I found about Paul Ryan was also worth a read.
Report Abuse
Safely back at home in Istanbul.
Uber XL, Mercedes Vito available within 4 minutes.
New warship on the Bosphorus for Eser's blog/
An almost full moon over Scutari/
Two hour nap, meal
Our glorious leader on CNNTurk
Two episodes of "The Night Of"
Now midnight
Soon to dream of grandchild.
Report Abuse
Stay safe and start a new topic.
Report Abuse
Glad you're home safely.
Report Abuse
Glad you made it. Good luck!
Report Abuse
Thanks again everyone.
I will start the new thread in the next few days.
So long for now.
Report Abuse
> ello Ahmet,
> I don't know if you remember me (friends of Dona and Alan from WDC) and my friend Gene from Canada, but we have both been thinking about you and Eser since the awful events in Turkey.
> We hope you and your family are fine, and we send you warm regards.
> Best,
> ~Marilyn and Gene
Sign in to comment.