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From the Top: David Turner
Jul 13, 2017
Richard Cunningham
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BY: R. Cunningham
IMAGES: Colin Meagher
David Turner's
life revolves around two wheels. Twenty-five years ago, Turner was racing both motorcycles and mountain bikes, when another guy with the same last name (Paul Turner) introduced suspension forks to the bicycle world. Dave Turner was one of the lucky few who were given those early prototypes for competition testing. It was an "ah-ha" moment for the young cross-country racer, who knew that the instant popularity of suspension forks would inevitably lead to full-suspension mountain bikes. Dave immediately set out to learn as much as he could about rear suspension, and how it might be adapted to suit the needs of finicky mountain bike riders.
Turner was lucky to fall in with the sharpest suspension designer of the moment and shortly afterwards, founded his namesake bicycle company and went into business with a revolutionary aluminum dual-suspension XC trail bike design that would remain "best in class" for many years. David Turner's career as a bike maker and designer spans the entire timeline of the dual-suspension revolution. Only a few among us can make that claim, so it was an honor to sit down with the man and swap stories about the tech side of the sport, past, and present.
How long have you been making mountain bikes?
The first bike I designed was 1992. When Pinkbike visited, you saw a red painted steel bike prototype that had a strut style shock bolted behind the seat tube. That design never saw production and was built in 1992.
How did you get started?
I had been working for AMP Research after quitting racer life and was not really getting along with the boss. As a former mountain bike racer, I was not really used to working with others and working for a boss who did not share my opinions on what a bike should ride like was not good for my future. So, after another heated discussion, down the road I went.
Turner made his first prototype in 1992. It was not put into production, in favor of his rocker-link design, which remains the predominant rear suspension to this day. - David Turner photo
What was your inspiration?
I was a racer first, and there I experienced the suspension revolution first hand, starting with RockShox and Manitou showing up at events with prototypes. Several of us were racing and testing those early forks. I knew that rear suspension must surely follow and as one of the first front-suspension racers/test riders I could
imagine what was possible if rear suspension could be added to the mountain bike. I kept thinking about rear suspension and how it could be done.
In the winter, I was racing District 37 hare and hounds on my YZ250 when I noted that the ATK brand had notably better suspension than all the other [motorcycles] I was passing, so I checked out the rear suspension, which was very different than anything at the time or since, and realized I should talk to the owner of the company about bicycle suspension. In talking with Horst Leitner, the engineer of the ATK, he shared an idea of a pivot location that would create enough anti-squat so that the bicycle would bob less while pedaling but still remain active under hard pedaling and brake loads.
Horst Leitner (far left) and the ATK crew. Similar to present DH designs, The ATK used guide rollers to keep chain tension from acting upon the suspension. – AMP research image
Tell us about your first design.
The first production bike had a massive, 70 millimeters of rear-wheel travel and geometry that was not a whole lot different than the cross-country bikes of the era. What set it apart from the AMP bikes, was that I had pushed the anti-squat characteristics further than Horst, as I was very much still pedaling in anger and wanted a tighter feel under power. The whole structure of the bike was designed to resist flex as well, with big pivot shafts, good bushing overlap, square tubes in the rear end for lateral control, and compared to so many frames at the time, the main frame tubes were bigger. I will be the first to admit that, compared to current bikes, the early Burner was by no means stiff, but, at the time there were so so many hunks of junk that I think my bike stood out.
The Burner, with its Horst-Link type suspension was Turner's first production model. It became a blueprint for many successors in the budding mountain bike industry.
What was the landscape like when you founded Turner Bikes?
It was still the frontier of a new sport and business segment. It seemed that there was a massive number of mtb business' that were selling everything from tiny, anodized alloy bolts to linkage forks. Imaginations were running wild and the excitement of a new sport, as well as the possibility of breaking into a new business, created a rush of people and ideas. Companies were popping up right and left and many were creating product that was in many cases were truly the first in modern history.
What were your largest challenges during those early times?
The production. Getting the money to pay for the materials, labor, and services required to build a batch of frames—taking the product from the design phase and through to production.
Unlike most early frame makers, you contracted out your designs from the beginning. How did you come to that decision?
I was not skilled enough at fabrication to align with my vision of the best bike. I wanted to sell a bike with workmanship that was far greater than my proto level scabbing could create, and I really wanted my frames to be awesome, not just stick the tubes together as so many welders could. I designed really cool machined parts and had a machine shop make those parts, and I had really skilled welders put the frames together. I sought out the specialists for each of the steps and parts to get what I thought at the time, was the best product.
Do you believe that bicycle manufacturing will ever return to the USA?
I wish a lot of manufacturing would come back, not just bicycles, but more of the big-volume products most citizens use. It is hard to believe it will happen, with so many of us concerned with instant gratification and spending vast amounts of time seeking out the lowest possible price in any given product segment. One problem is that, with the low cost of imports, over the last few decades we have grown accustomed to getting a tremendous amount of perceived cool or volume for our money. Overcoming this will be a massive challenge, getting the wants of the buyer aligned with a retail price closer to current import pricing.
I think that the only way to compete with offshore labor costs is with new technology. Our labor will always be higher, so we have to engineer machines and cutting edge technology and processes to be competitive. When I use the word "manufacturing," I am seeing factories building thousands of bikes a month. This would make a dent in the number of imports. We do have some well run, high-volume fab shops in the USA with incredible quality and great people, but these are not factories and they are not going to make a dent in our yearly bicycle imports. If riders would start supporting them more, we could start making progress toward higher volumes.
It seemed like the larger, established brands fell behind the dual-suspension development curve for a sizable portion of those early years. What is your take on that?
The big companies employ smart managers. Why knock yourself out with new designs and updates and tooling every few months (or even every year) when the little guys are doing it for you? Things were changing so fast in the early era of mountain bikes and then again, during the full suspension phase, that I think it was better for them to take a conservative approach to development. I believe some companies let the smaller brands feel out the market direction and then they would follow. With the massive dealer networks the larger companies had, it's not like they weren't selling bikes, they just weren't selling the cutting edge or the best bikes.
The prototype RFX. Turner abandoned the Horst-Link suspension system that he founded his brand with to avoid being harassed by patent holders. His choice to go with Dave Weagle's DW-Link would prove to be the better decision.
When the 29er took root, it seems like it spurred a decade of rampant development, including the component industry's new-standard-every-week club. How did that affect smaller builders like Turner Bikes?
We have seen some of the big companies go from moderately misguided and largely crap advancements in the early days, to creating smoke where there was no fire. Most of the big companies are now creating micro changes, some proprietary, some as new "standards." all for nominal performance gains, but with maximal marketing opportunities. The managers now realize that in order to create big marketing opportunities, you have to have something to feed the public from one year to the next.
I think it is actually cost effective at their massive size to just drag and drop a few millimeters here or there, order up some new bits from the parts and accessory companies, then spend the next 18 months telling everyone their new bike is insane and to get a new one or your next ride will suck. And that is hard on all the smaller companies, as we do not have the economies of scale to effectively amortize as many tooling changes. Don't get me wrong, today's bikes are the best ever, but many of those changes have done nothing to actually improve our ride, and have been created primarily for a marketing opportunity or cost savings - to the great pain in the ass, not only for me, but for the hundreds of thousands of riders trying to keep their bikes working for a reasonable amount of time.
Do you foresee a point where there will be no standardization at all, when larger bike makers build bikes to their own specs (like the automotive industry does), when beyond tires and some cockpit items, there will be no crossover components between brands?
You mean like the original Schwinn? Honestly, I am surprised that we have not seen a much more massive application of proprietary dimensions and designs from the companies that in a hundred different ways, already make everything but the drivetrain, brakes and dampers. I think it will be a fantastic way to make sure customers keep returning to their brands' shops, as they will be the only place with the special service tools, factory training (and of course, proprietary parts) to keep that sucker working. As higher-end sales transition to increasingly complicated motor bikes over the next several years, this will be that much easier. It's not like you can pull a Honda motor today and drop it into a Yamaha, or a Nissan parts into a Toyota, right? Why should one be able to drop a Bosch motor into a chassis originally designed around a Brose?
Carbon fiber threatened to be the barrier wall between well-moneyed large brands that could ante up for the technology, and smaller brands that were relegated to less-expensive aluminum production. Apparently, that did not transpire.
Just my guess, but I think the number of full carbon bikes from niche brands on the trails is higher than most of the large brands. I am constantly watching the brands/models of the bikes wherever I ride, and the higher-cost builds seem to favor the smaller brands. None of the big brands are making anything better than most of the smaller companies' products. Different? Sure. Overpriced? Absolutely! [It makes no sense] when the economies of scale are taken into consideration. Looking at spec sheets, the smaller brands are usually a better buy as well. That might be one of the reasons they are popular with the more experienced riders who can wade thru the downgraded hidden parts specs of high-volume producers.
Once mountain bikers start looking at higher performance options, the smaller brands make their short list. So in most cases, a rider can get class-leading performance and something unique when they buy a bike from a niche brand - and have something not associated with entry level bikes from the big companies. Think about it: From $1600 to $6000, many of the big companies bikes are made to look similar. But, when one shows up to the trail head with a really nice bike from one of the several small brands, there is no way it will be confused with a big brand's low-price option, made to look like their team bikes.
The Flux Carbon. - David Turner photo
Today, if you asked where dual-suspension trail bikes came from, most everyone would claim that they evolved from downhill designs, but that wasn't the case was it?
No, it has always been about trail bikes. Yes, the bikes we ride today are partly influenced by features of a DH bike - most notably the bar and stems, but if trail bikes truly descended from DH bikes, we would not even bother to ride them up. Fact is, most bikes today are still in the pedal-bike lineage, morphing along as trail design and riders' interaction with the terrain changes.
You are one of the better riders I know, but none of us can hang with a National level or World Cup DH racer. How did you make the transition from making trail bikes, to building well-regarded downhill designs?
When I was designing the DHR, my thinking wasn't only World Cup level, but building the best bike I could for most downhill racers. I got as much info as I could from the highest level athletes I knew or sponsored, of course. But in the end, I knew that most of the DHRs would be [customer owned], as we never had the money to buy our way onto a high-level team. So, I really wanted to make a great bike for the weekend warrior.
I think it can be also be attributed to my ability to interpret the desires of racers and transfer those to a bike design. To better understand their world, I walked every National downhill course on race day, at every venue in North America - watching how bikes worked and how different level riders rode helped put me "in their game" when getting the post-race feedback from athletes. For a couple seasons, I also raced age-class expert for fun and total immersion. I learned a lot standing in lift lines and start paddocks!
Two DHR downhill frames on Turner's wall of fame. The original single-pivot-swingarm version (right), beside the most-recent, DW-Link chassis.
Interest in downhill bikes seemed to gain strength during the freeride movement and then spike as gravity parks opened worldwide. Now, the focus seems to have shifted to venues like the Rampage, FEST, and World Cup DH. How relevant are downhill bikes to the sport at large?
They are just as relevant as F1 or NASCAR to the cars we all drive. In other words: "minor." The World Cup, Rampage, CrankWorx, etc, are not about building bikes for participants, but creating "advertainment" materials. So, from a business standpoint, DH bikes are very relevant. By hiring World Cup level riders, companies hope to impress upon the viewing audience that their bikes are great, but the truth is, riders at that level can race frozen dog shit and kick ass, and many do! It's all about marketing. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday.
How, if at all, does the long travel enduro bike play into that equation?
Very different. The enduro bike is just a more comfortable, capable and ultimately enjoyable way for most of us to ride a bicycle in the dirt, and that is who most of us are - mountain bikers.
RFX v4.0 was the first design from Turner tailored for enduro racing.
Is there a difference between an enduro bike and a long-travel trail bike?
It might be splitting hairs, but yes, errr, no, uh, maybe. At this time, enduro is generally associated with racing. Therefore, an enduro bike should be properly outfitted to race. Tires and rims are the biggest difference between someone pedaling against the clock, and one having a fun day with your buds. After that, all these bikes are shopped for and built with the individual rider's opinion of the optimal blend of up and downhill performance, based on their own budget, fitness, terrain and of course, trends. Kinda like the different ways to say "car." So many words describe what is basically, the same kind of vehicle. I don't own an enduro bike, I have a 160-millimeter-travel trail bike. Haha!
Theoretically, if there were no negative effects on the bike's pedaling performance, would there be a limit where suspension travel would become detrimental to a good performing trail bike?
Yes, I think so, that's weight. As long as we are talking performance bicycles, weight is always going to be a factor. Adding a bunch of travel will end up making the weight higher, and that will always affect someone pedaling up a hill. The longer the travel the heavier everything will need to be. More travel ultimately means more downhill speed, so heavier frame and fork for sure, but especially rims and tires. Longer fork travel means more fork leg length, so we would need bigger diameter, thicker legs. So instead of the svelte 28 to 30-pound bikes we have access to today, we would end up well over 30 pounds, and no matter how efficient the linkage or suspension is, heavier is still harder to move uphill. Budget builds would skyrocket that weight to back-breaking numbers.
Without belaboring the wheel-size debate, what did you learn most from building mountain bikes with all three current diameters?
That there is no perfect size wheel for everyone, and that somewhere along the way the tire and rim makers should have gone to a "bead-seat diameter" based labeling system instead of the stupid system we have. For example: calling a bike 27.5 or sixfiftybee. That wheel size could really have an effective diameter range of less than 27 inches up to 28.5 inches with the same BSD.
What improvements do you think are most critical to the mountain bike at present?
Brakes. Of all the leaps the mountain bike has gone through since the days you wielded a torch, I say disc brakes. Second, would be tires. Modern tires are sooo much better than back in the old days.
If you had to build the one bike that you would have to ride for the rest of your life, what would it be like?
The short answer is: not electric powered. A fully rigid titanium single speed, with 27.5 x 2.6 wheels—massively long top tube, 770mm wide bar, and a quiet hub. Nothing to do on it but change tires and grips and head into the dirt.
You have been along for the ride, almost from the inception of the mountain bike, and certainly through its most important development stages. In your experience, what is most promising about our sport, and what do you regret most?
Promising? That our insatiable appetites will continue to push virtually every part of the sport and bikes. For little or for great, for better or for worse, the sport will keep changing. Seeing those changes, for a bike addict, is constant entertainment.
Regret? That I did not buy stock in Amazon….
This is not an easy career choice. Looking back, what motivated you most to make mountain bikes and what drives you to continue today?
First, I really knew I could do a better bike than what was available. There was so much crap on the market in the early '90s, and I had this clarity of vision that I could design a great bike. I think that's what it takes to go into business for oneself—a belief so strong that one will go to unreasonable lengths and sacrifices to compete. I am a bike geek, first and foremost, so being in the business is the pinnacle of bicycle immersion. I would rather ride a bike than any other past time. I would do it wearing Lycra or baggies, flats or clips, with or without a shifter or a helmet—it's all good. The act of pedaling is still the coolest thing—step on pedals and go places.
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202 Comments
Who Faved
+ 194
(Jul 13, 2017 at 0:12)
One of the few guys that, IMO, never sold out.
+ 47
(Jul 13, 2017 at 8:02)
DT the straightshooter. Telling it like it is. Proud to ride your bikes
+ 20
(Jul 13, 2017 at 9:51)
He also takes good care of his customers. You call Turner bikes, and chances are you'll wind up speaking with him, and he'll get you what you need. He's also a good dude to bullshit with, has some great stories.
+ 9
(Jul 13, 2017 at 23:54)
: This is true. I sent an email to the generic info email address asking about shock suggestions and ended up having an exchange with him personally.
+ 82
(Jul 13, 2017 at 0:31)
I wish there were more guys like that steering the bike business.
+ 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 11:15)
It doesn't matter if it's bike, car or nutrition business - if you are a small company you can say what you like, if you are big, you have to play the game of appearances. It is as natural as Earth orbiting the Sun
- 6
(Jul 14, 2017 at 7:52)
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Except the whole industry would collapse. "A fully rigid titanium single speed, with 27.5 x 2.6 wheels—massively long top tube, 770mm wide bar, and a quiet hub. Nothing to do on it but change tires and grips and head into the dirt." Great for tire and grip companies, not great for selling/development of new products year in year out. Market competition, with heaps of dumb or great ideas and standards then selling these over priced products to those who will buy is what allows the industry to fund itself. 'Keeping it real' is what killed snowboarding's market share. Bros who just wanna ride can't support an superfluous industry.
+ 1
(Jul 14, 2017 at 12:04)
: there's still more money in snowboard industry than in biking. If you are a photographer the ski/snowboard always gives better jobs
+ 1
(Jul 17, 2017 at 3:45)
: its still good that some companies take this kind of approach though
+ 0
(Jul 17, 2017 at 8:44)
: no doubt as ski resorts are packed, but even more reason to have to stay up with the current industry model. Razor thin margins and tons of competition equal death to 'live simply' business models. The down votes I got from core bros is hilarious. Welcome to reality and why you aren't riding elastomer suspension. Because people who have more money than sense you can spend it frivolously year in year out to keep the industry alive.
+ 71
(Jul 13, 2017 at 5:47)
The biggest thing I took from this article is " I would do it wearing Lycra or baggies, flats or clips, with or without a shifter or a helmet—it's all good. The act of pedaling is still the coolest thing—step on pedals and go places."
Just ride the bike you have and enjoy it.
- 7
(Jul 13, 2017 at 9:43)
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agreed, except for the helmet. It should be mandatory everywhere (city - bmx - mtb)
- 8
(Jul 13, 2017 at 11:16)
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: and with MIPS.
- 5
(Jul 13, 2017 at 14:56)
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: yes i forgot, of course ! Safety first
+ 62
(Jul 13, 2017 at 0:52)
I wish all dog shit was frozen
- 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 1:23)
Yeah, you're not alone. Even pro level DH racers won't kick ass riding wet dog shit. Time to reverse global warming, and then some.
+ 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 6:55)
: what we need is a good old-fashioned nuclear winter.
+ 1
(Jul 13, 2017 at 11:16)
: and some Catholic guilt
+ 1
(Jul 15, 2017 at 21:50)
In winter, dog shit warms your hands.
+ 41
(Jul 13, 2017 at 2:46)
Great to see someone call out the big boys on BS standards, the only way for us as consumers to avoid the roll out of more of these new non-standard standards and the progression further to a point where it is not possible to upgrade without changing your entire bike or getting suckered into brand only maintenance from the big boys is to no buy into the BS. This is where we need the reviewers and media to get a bit down and dirty and properly evaluate the "benefits" of these new standards.
+ 15
(Jul 13, 2017 at 7:34)
Cough***Cock block***knock block***cough****boost vs flange to hub center symetry****plus tires****?
Sorry I had a lot of phlegm in my throat.....
+ 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 9:29)
A few influential people serving their self interest ruins it for everyone else. Same old story, be it bicycles or politics.
- 6
(Jul 13, 2017 at 11:21)
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- take a chill pill. If Trek and Sram want to bring Boost 152 they just will. They will not ask anyone they will not give a tiniest fk about what Dave Turner or Cesar Rojo or Richard Cunnyngham have to say. Whether you and a couple of opinionated guys on internet will buy their bike or not. They piss on your money because they can. They will just do it and earn money on someone else
+ 10
(Jul 13, 2017 at 11:40)
: Hey, maybe Trek and actually design a bike with good kinematics instead of putting out gimmicks and trying to sell me a $10k single pivot bike.
+ 8
(Jul 13, 2017 at 23:43)
: They don't piss my money because I'm not a new bike each year kinda guy, family has put pay to that.
New "standards" that offer no real benefits to riders however cost a significant amount of money to buy into really do boil my piss.
+ 1
(Jul 17, 2017 at 3:51)
: boil my piss, haha love it
+ 34
(Jul 13, 2017 at 5:50)
Bought my first Turner in 2002, and old school RFX. Rode that frame for 12 years without issue, and without being outdated or outclassed. Over that time I watched many companies release frames with misaligned pivots & crooked frames, poor quality, or worse, then fight with their customers over corrections and warranties. I own two Turners now. People use the term 'fanboy' like it's an insult. DT runs his business in a way that creates that loyalty.
+ 8
(Jul 13, 2017 at 7:58)
Spent 10 minutes on the phone with him 2 days ago.
I've owned:
2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2009 DHR's
Currently own:
2006 5 Pack
I'm only on my 3rd set of bidding for the 5 Pack since owning it.
SAPA (the frame makers at the time) ruined the rep of the 2012 DHR by making the head tubes horribly wrong. The bikes were pre sold out of this world and they screwed them up so bad every one had to be recalled. Luckily i got my hand on a re worked one. It's perfect.
Oh...I personally got to test out that frame on the left or one of its prototype brothers. Stoked to see it and have the memories come rushing back.
Anyway...if you want to order "Direct to Consumer", Turner is the only way to go.
+ 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 9:48)
: I worked for Sapa from 04-05 and ended up buying and building a DHR I had welded. I later rode a high line for an it and I'm looking into building an rfx
+ 1
(Jul 13, 2017 at 15:03)
: I knew you would be in here.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 18:47)
: he sounds like a cool dude, bet he has all sorts of gems and tips about bike setups
+ 1
(Jul 14, 2017 at 12:16)
: Really. So what exactly is the reason for what happened with the head tubes on that first batch. How did SAPA go from producing every single DHR and as far as i know, never having a head tube failure, to then pumping out their most highly anticipated Turner to date and (and as i was told, so it's third hand info) the first 100 DHR's off the line cracking the head tube the first ride. What went down for something so polar opposite to occur? Never understood.
+ 1
(Jul 14, 2017 at 12:17)
: Also, it's been a while, but for some reason I remember someone trying to come in (maybe former SAPA employees) and trying to somehow fill the void building US bikes in the same town or facility for some of the same bike companies?
+ 1
(Jul 14, 2017 at 20:22)
: I left in 06 shortly after we started welding out the third iterations of the DHR with the round tubes instead of the square tubes that still had the link driven single point design. I was there when our guy that was over quality and shipping broke off and took some of our better help. I left solely because of false promises on advancement and compensation. SAPA had great employees but was not great to their employees. It was a good learning experience and great stepping stone.
+ 2
(Jul 20, 2017 at 20:28)
I am a proud Turner "fanboy" also.
+ 1
(Jul 26, 2017 at 17:17)
Rode a Burner (from 03) for 12 years w/o issue. The bike got better with age because of component upgrades (stock Manitou to RP23, first-gen TALAS converted to Float, etc). Cost/Fun ratio amortized over the lifespan of the bike is hard to beat.
+ 35
(Jul 13, 2017 at 5:12)
Correction to a long time popular PB comment...should be : "looks like a Turner".
+ 22
(Jul 13, 2017 at 3:48)
I never understood wearing a stocking cap other in the middle of the winter. Hes in So Cal so its probably pretty hot.. People do it and i dont know why.
+ 25
(Jul 13, 2017 at 5:51)
Us Canadians are confused by this too.
+ 8
(Jul 13, 2017 at 7:28)
I think you have to be from So Cal to understand this. In all fairness it can be pretty cold in mornings in the winter.
+ 3
(Jul 13, 2017 at 7:50)
It's cold as fokk in that warehouse and DT is bald. Maybe... heh
+ 5
(Jul 13, 2017 at 9:27)
Yes, this was all the rage a few years back. It used to drive me mad to see a guy walking down the street in the middle of July wearing a knit stocking cap. I don't see it as much anymore.
+ 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 10:05)
It's a general biker thing-not just SoCal. My Daughter tells me it's to hide your 'helmet hair'.
+ 3
(Jul 13, 2017 at 11:30)
I remember on a rugby trip once having someone in Kansas refer to my toque (or beanie) as a "stocking cap" though thought they were calling it a "stalking cap" and felt super curious about the criminal element in the field party I was at. It oddly made sense though as I could see someone stalking in one. Toques and beanies are like a nice hug for your head if your bald... of course I live in the mountains in BC so it's a bit different here than in SoCal but given the rationality of his interview I'm assuming if he's doing it than it works for him and he doesn't seem the type to suffer through a bad choice for the sake of fashion.
+ 8
(Jul 13, 2017 at 12:22)
Say toque, it isn't hard.
+ 1
(Jul 13, 2017 at 13:21)
: to-kay!
+ 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 13:52)
"Stocking cap"! Oh my gawd that is the funniest thing I've ever heard. I guess it's similar to hearing a Brit call Levi's "denim trousers".
+ 3
(Jul 13, 2017 at 13:54)
: so close
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 14:39)
: Tuke
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 14:46)
Toque's on Don.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 14:55)
: Who's been calling them "denim trousers"? We call them "jeans" (sounds like "jeens", if this really isn't familiar thing in N. American).
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 20:59)
: lol, cuz the cute lol man buns wont fit!
+ 1
(Jul 14, 2017 at 0:14)
: But thats what they are!!!
+ 3
(Jul 14, 2017 at 8:05)
"The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco."
+ 1
(Jul 18, 2017 at 11:16)
: Yep - we can wear em all Summer. @#$@#$ the heat!
+ 17
(Jul 13, 2017 at 0:24)
I still have one of those original DHR frames. Even now it's a great thing to look at, with all the CNC billet parts and twin top tubes. It must have looked mad back when it was new.
+ 8
(Jul 13, 2017 at 7:46)
No. It looked awesome back then. Focking awesome was what it looked like.
+ 5
(Jul 13, 2017 at 8:03)
That bike and the M1 were the pinnacle of DH rigs in the late 90's early 2000's.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 8:10)
: And Greg Wulff worked at both. Coincidence?
+ 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 9:00)
I have a twin-tuber. too! in white....gotta fish that frame out and clean it up - it's work of art. I want to turn it into a parade bike, but need a fork long enough to compensate for one of the steepest head angles ever.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 18:37)
: go with a 27.5" fork up front and run your stantions all the way out.
+ 1
(Jul 13, 2017 at 19:20)
There's an idea but I don't want to drop real money- still looking for the 100$ Monster T
+ 1
(Jul 16, 2017 at 9:34)
: Super monster T....
+ 16
(Jul 13, 2017 at 0:28)
Proper Legend of the sport and a super cool down to earth dude.
+ 9
(Jul 13, 2017 at 6:49)
I love that DT's "forever" bike would be a titanium hardtail singlespeed. I have a full carbon 140 travel trail bike that is--by any objective measure-- my "best" bike, but the bike I most often pull down off the hook is my titanium singlespeed. I agree with Mr. Turner, the act of pedalling itself is the most important thing. Thanks PB for an excellent interview, and thanks DT for some thought-provoking answers
+ 3
(Jul 13, 2017 at 14:51)
funny, my riding circle it's the same thing: at the end of the day if we had one bike, it would be our singlespeeds...
+ 8
(Jul 13, 2017 at 1:22)
"But the truth is, riders at that level can race frozen dog shit and kick ass, and many do! It's all about marketing. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday."
This made me kind of disenchanted with bicycle design. You always hope, or at least I do, that there's some sort of progress being made by perfecting say suspension linkage, or design, or materials, or bearings, or hubs, kind of like how automobile manufacturers say, "we've taken what we learned from Formula 1, and integrated it", but apparently they're probably all just talking out their ass.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 1:57)
Nice bike!
Even that dual suspension from 1992 was way ahead of it's time.
- 6
(Jul 13, 2017 at 2:03)
(Below Threshold)
show comment
I never got that F1 reference. I really can't watch road sports. And then when you watch the Tour de France, you're still looking at a nice scenery. F1 racing is on an isolated asphalt track without jumps and a gravel pit for a scenery. And then the technology. Currently there is a driver from my country (The Netherlands) competing. I don't really follow the racing but the only news reports I'm getting is him moaning about his car breaking down. His dad used to race too. What I do remember about him is that they illegally messed with the refueling equipment (to be able to refuel faster), spilled and set the car alight (he survived but couldn't finish the race). So that's F1 technology, stuff that with even that many technicians around doesn't even survive a couple of hours racing. I don't want any of that techology near my bike (or car). Sure aerospace technology, I don't mind having that trickle down into my gear. They want performance too but never skim on decent reliability and safety. F1 tech with reliability so low that you never get to know about the performance, GTFO.
+ 15
(Jul 13, 2017 at 2:48)
: I think the F1 reference was more geared along the lines of car companies don't make F1 cars to sell F1 cars- one of the main reasons they do it is to strengthen their brand image. Sure some technology trickles it's way down to commercial cars, but a big portion of F1 is to promote and sell the brand. This applies to downhill ski racing and downhill mountain biking the same. FIS ski racing isn't primarily done to sell FIS-level skis, but to promote the brand behind the skis. Same for downhill bike racing and downhill bikes.
+ 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 4:12)
: whilst I do think that DH is largely the F1 of mtb, I don't think F1 cars is a good analogy for DH bikes. Most of us ride the bikes the WC DHers ride for a start!
- the impression I got is he isn't into racing that much, all good, he can be into whatever. It doesn't surprise me considering he gets no business or benefit out of it since hes not in it. Business guys will always promote what supports them. So I wouldn't read too much into it, its just like his opinion man.
A final thought - if any trail bike descended as well as a dh bike, it would be super rad
- 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 4:31)
(Below Threshold)
show comment
In racing, it's about the rider, not the bike. If it was about the bike, all the men's DH WC qualifiers and finals would be dominated by 29ers.
+ 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 4:37)
: many critical advancements in "consumer" automobiles have come from F1
+ 5
(Jul 13, 2017 at 5:03)
: Obviously true that we can buy a DH bike but not an F1 car. But, most frames and components the World Cup uses are not exactly the commercial bikes available to us. While the commercial bikes we buy are totally inspired and based on the World Cup, there are often tweaks made (Sram Black Box, Fox RAD, lighter/thinner aluminums, special rocker links, carbon layups, etc.) that are not commercially available. Almost never is a commercial bike 1:1 what is used on the World Cup.
But the main point Turner was making is that downhill bikes are a very small fraction of a company's overall turnover. Companies participate in World Cup racing not to mainly sell downhill bikes but to promote and sell the brand. Selling downhill bikes is secondary, promoting the brand is primary.
+ 1
(Jul 13, 2017 at 5:54)
: There's an article on dirt mag worth a read, they're more stock than you.might think. Agree re reasons to participate for sure
+ 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 6:51)
: like what?
Audi won't put a single dollar into an F1 racing program because they feel that the technologies developed in F1 offer little to no benefit to their consumer cars. As
mentioned, much of what is developed for an F1 race car is intended to last the short duration of a single race.
LMS racing on the other hand, is a whole different story.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 7:47)
: f1 may not be a good analogy for resorts or wherever you live aparently. But for the large majority of shops(which don't even stock a single dh bike) dh bikes might as well be f1. They don't stock them because it's such a small portion of the market, excluding very few select areas. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to live in dh bike candyland. But I live in wheelchair accessible dirt sidewalk IMBA land.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 7:48)
Here a couple of websites that offer information on what has trickled down from racing to the everyday modern vehicle.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 8:11)
: I'm not saying that motorsports (racing) doesn't result in trickle-down technology to road cars, I'm just saying that if you look at the different types of racing, F1 in particular contributes very little. This is especially true today as road cars inch closer to maximum fuel efficiency. Even from an aerodynamics perspective... how much can open wheeled F1 shapes help a typical five passenger vehicle? Whereas NASCAR at least uses bodies that somewhat mimic the shape of road cars.
LMS (think 24 hours of Le Mans) has a very high rate of trickle down tech, those cars need to be fuel efficient, need to be durable, need to be able to illuminate a roadway, etc.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 8:22)
It does filter down. Look at just one example shimano xtr has features that filter down to the cheaper stuff. Or like in this article, the concept of full suspension started with pro level xc racing and now it's the norm.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 8:40)
See I loved that quote, but I already have that same opinion.
+ 1
(Jul 13, 2017 at 10:08)
Materials Science is real, and that affects design, but yeah, 80% of it is just marketing bs.
+ 1
(Jul 13, 2017 at 14:29)
: Confirmation bias is real isn't it!
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 14:31)
: I live in Australia. There's probably three bike parks in the whole country. Its about 4000km wide. There's not many parks, so the likelihood of living in one is pretty much zero.
Most shops here will show off a flagship dh bike at least. I cam see if you.live somewhere completely flat itd be a waste of time. Still doesn't reduce their desire factor though
+ 1
(Jul 13, 2017 at 17:48)
: there is nothing more stock than I might think. Thats the equivalent of saying that the TDF
Is more similar to my cycling commute than I might think.
+ 1
(Jul 13, 2017 at 18:05)
: The popular mechanics article is solely based on F1.
+ 1
(Jul 13, 2017 at 18:11)
: Que?
+ 1
(Jul 17, 2017 at 11:50)
: I think that confirmation bias implies that I'm evaluating evidence. In this case I'm just sharing my cynicism with a more optimistic sort of commenter.
+ 1
(Jul 17, 2017 at 13:37)
: my bad. I misread your reply to
where you said that there are many similarities between commercially available DH bikes and that of a sponsored pro's bike. While your reference to the dirt rag article should've clued me in to what you were referring to, when I replied, I was under the impression that you were comparing F1 cars to consumer cars.
+ 11
(Jul 13, 2017 at 1:02)
Nice to hear someone on the inside calling out the big companies bs! So tired of proprietary stuff I want to puke.
+ 8
(Jul 13, 2017 at 10:57)
a lot of people in industry have said this, it just gets drowned out by the larger companies and the media following along so they don't miss out on press trips to nice places.
+ 9
(Jul 13, 2017 at 1:19)
Great interview of a legend. Only issue I have is RC never asked Dave, "so what's next from Turner?" Been patiently waiting to see something new...
+ 9
(Jul 13, 2017 at 0:37)
Easily the best bike I have ever owned. The difference is insane, if you ever get to demo one.
+ 5
(Jul 13, 2017 at 23:54)
I love Dave's bikes. Haters gonna hate, because they can't relate. A craftsman building his designs is the ultimate expression of human development. Dave makes bikes to fill his own need. Not the market's trendy demand. Great article and great bike builder.
+ 5
(Jul 13, 2017 at 7:53)
Turner's just work. They are built to ride and last. On my third trailbike (Burner v2, Spot TNT, Burner v3), DHR, kid rides a Burner 3.1 and Wife a DW Spot. All reliable and great to ride, even for those of us that are not world class bike handlers.
+ 5
(Jul 13, 2017 at 2:36)
So much love for this brand. My first 'real' mountain bike was a 2006 Turner Sultan 29 with 100mm of Horst link rear travel. Then I got a 5 Spot which further blew my mind! I'd love to see Turner gain a bigger foothold in the market cause their bike's f***ing rock!
+ 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 8:00)
Two problems with this:
1) the Sultan wasn't introduced until 2007
2) the Sultan never had a Horst link rear end. The initial '07/08 production was TNT (faux bar) and transitioned to DW-link in 2009.
Details aside, I share your love for the brand.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 23:40)
: Yeah I can see you do share the love for Turner and/or details. Apologies to the Turner historians out there..
+ 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 20:28)
I rode for turner for a season when I first turned pro He hooked me up with a DHR and it's still one of my favourite bikes I have ever owned Plus the whole turner company is just world class I still talk to DT from time to time and catch up on stuff people really need to pay more attention to tuner bikes
+ 6
(Jul 13, 2017 at 4:19)
no one cares , please make another downhil bike with up to date wheel sizes ... i really mis my old bike and want too support your company again :/
+ 3
(Jul 13, 2017 at 7:51)
The dude is a legend... I'll probably get hated for the idea but he should sell out like Gary Fisher and go design bikes for one of the big brands. Times are changing and in order to compete in this marking driven industry DEEP pockets are needed. If your reading this Dave please go start designing bikes for one of the big guys, get a fat salary, ins benefits and a sweet 401k!! I would love to buy a modern day Turner... even if it's made in a big brand factory.
+ 3
(Jul 13, 2017 at 10:16)
Totally different psychology. If you could spend your life just messing around with bikes wouldn't you want to? There are people like Dave, Tom Teesdale, 'Frank the Welder', etc. who do quite nicely as independents, with a type of freedom they'd never have inside the Giant/Speck machine.
- 1
(Jul 13, 2017 at 12:30)
: you can't play around with things forever and expect to keep paying the bills... unfortunately life expenses get in the way and having a nice retirement nest egg makes the later years of life much sweeter.
The idea is save enough money so you can just f*ck around and have fun when you get older. Not saying this is the only way but it's the plan that lets you sleep good at night for most!
+ 0
(Jul 13, 2017 at 16:36)
what are you on about? you're
+ 0
(Jul 13, 2017 at 19:47)
: "loaded" as in not sober!
+ 3
(Jul 13, 2017 at 8:47)
I bought my first Turner, a 2000 RFX in late 1999. I still have the bike, and in fact, rode it last night. I have upgraded it through the years, and it still works flawlessly. I turned many people on to the bikes as well, including Aquaholic, who became a bit of a defacto test rider for Dave for many years until he went back to jetskiing. At one point, I had four Turners, a 2006 Flux, then a 2007 Five Spot that I built up for my son when he was 12. I still have a 14.5" Burner that I loaned to a friend for his son to ride. All great bikes.
The RFX has been transformed into a 26"+ bike, with 40mm wide rims, and 2.8" tires. It's great for when I take kitesurfing trips to Baja, to ride around the loamy trails, and get me to and from the launch point. I always had great customer service from Dave.
I remember when I ordered the RFX, I was talking to Dave on the phone. He asked me what trails I was going to be riding, and I was debating to go with rim brakes or disc brakes, which was still a question at that time. When I mentioned Telonix, he replied "You need to put disc brakes on that bike, or you're going to be blasting down Telonix so fast, you'll end up on Laguna Canyon Road without them". I'll never forget that comment. I of course went with the discs, and never looked back.
Take a look at my photos if you want to look at some of these iconic bikes.
+ 3
(Jul 14, 2017 at 5:44)
hah love this. Put up a Turner interview and there is damn near universal praise and genuine love for the brand. Put up an Ellesworth and note the difference. Its nice that the PB forum sees the difference between genuine bike people and business people. We could do with more Turners and less BS.
+ 5
(Jul 13, 2017 at 6:45)
Rode a turner all last week at the Whistler bike park--had such a good time! It was absolutely eating up the tech. Keep making good bikes!
+ 3
(Jul 13, 2017 at 9:53)
David is one of the best guys in the industry. He's also the best rider of anyone who owns a bike company, that's why his bikes are so dialed. Buying his bikes doesn't support marketing, advertising, or trends, just David developing really good bikes. And his wife crushing it. Hard. Ive been seeing all of these new school cross country bikes out and they're only about 4 years behind the Czar, which is still the best of that crop. Mine is aging and the only thing I've ridden that I would replace it with is another Czar. Climbs like a scalded cat, and descends like a bike with way more travel. I routinely crush my buddies on enduro bikes with it on techy downhills. The new RFX bucks a few trends but is more fun in most places for most riders because of that. Really fun when it gets tight and flicky and chunky. That's the one I take to Moab. Once it cools off a bit.
+ 5
(Jul 13, 2017 at 0:38)
Thanks for this RC/Colin. DT, you're the man! I doubt I'll ever part with my v3.1 Burner - killer looks, stout design, and handles awesome!
+ 3
(Jul 13, 2017 at 8:47)
David Turner may now be my favorite person in the bicycle industry, and I threw my lot in with the Canfield bros.
There are a few guys that ride Turners around here (one whose been riding Turners for over a decade). They have a very good reputation over all.
+ 3
(Jul 13, 2017 at 13:42)
His point on pricing from big brands is absolutely accurate. It's what has created a window for companies like YT, Canyon, etc. in the North American market. Trek and Specialized have by far the largest brand reach, but they overprice the shit out of their bikes. Economies of scale are very real, especially with carbon frames where volume is key to pay off the costs of tooling. Rather than promoting proprietary suspension products and other features, the big boys will have to come to grips with realistic product margins in an industry where small companies are cranking out bikes that are as good or better.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 14:01)
Are you asking the bike companies themselves to take the hit or the bike shops? Working/running a shop off/on for 10 years I can tell you that the shops have very low margins on the majority of products sold. Especially compared to other traditional retail industries
+ 1
(Jul 13, 2017 at 15:29)
: I worked in a shop at one point and was shocked by how low the margins are - I would never suggest that shops take the hit. I think the companies are the ones that need to get real and take the hit.
Example: A Trek Slash 29 frameset is $3700 on their website for the frame and shock. For being a massive brand that can crank out a lot of frames every year in volume, that's pretty outrageous. Meanwhile, smaller companies are coming in with frames that are MUCH cheaper, and still not selling direct.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 18:57)
: But hey! Specialized needs to have free Espresso and Snacks in their museum. Someone's gotta pay!
That's why I won't get anymore carbon bikes. All Taiwan/China made and extremely limited and conservative on sizing. Which inihibits real innovations in geometry. Oh, and they don't really ride any better that I can tell and I've owned the best of them. Sold them all.
Aluminum/Steel/Ti can still be made here in small batches by artisans in the US. Think about it.
Turner has moved production overseas not because he wanted to or for more money, but to simply survive in this marketplace.
I truly hope they can somehow figure out bringing at least some models back to US production.
+ 1
(Jul 13, 2017 at 21:54)
To me shops have two problems. The first is an unwillingness to give up on unprofitable high end bikes (they are great at entry level and getting people into the sport) and consumers unwilling to pay for expertise. It is far more efficient for consumers to buy bikes direct from manufactures, but they nead to learn (and shops need to reinforce) that it is okay to go to an LBS and pay for setup and repairs. That experience and knowledge has value. I am no different than the next guy, I mail order and save where I can, but when I need a part in a hurry, I gladly pay my LBS retail for the convience and speed.
+ 1
(Jul 17, 2017 at 11:53)
: Just out of curiosity, have bike shops considered organizing in some way? If you want to twist the arm of your suppliers you're going to need numbers, I figure. Something like IMBA, only an alliance of stores with collective bargaining power.
+ 1
(Jul 17, 2017 at 12:40)
: Not sure about that. I'm sure many corporate stores have volume discounts
+ 8
(Jul 13, 2017 at 0:16)
Turners are CLASSIC
+ 3
(Jul 13, 2017 at 1:43)
Great read from a top fella / company - I've an 06 DHR, the swingarm has a hairline fracture and the paint is pretty battered now, but it's still such a grin inducing blast to ride that I can't bare to switch the frame out - which probably pretty much sums up how a great bike should make you feel!
+ 7
(Jul 13, 2017 at 4:58)
Thumbs up to Dave and PB for the very good interview/article. Thanks.
+ 3
(Jul 13, 2017 at 7:18)
I ride a Burner v3. Knows the way home by itself. My old O2 and Flux have moved on but are still going strong and are still relevant. Nobody ever complained about a Turner and probably never will. I imagine it would be really hard to get these at your LBS and have both Turner and shop happy with the margins nowadays.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 8:07)
I've got 4 Turners all being ridden by family. 2003 XCE ,2006 5 Spot,2013 5 Spot, 2015 Burner v.3. Awesome bikes that are worthy of component upgrades from year to year to keep up with the gearing changes. All are 1X big cassettes now. Turner customer service is amazing. I cannot tell you how many times I have phoned the shop and got Dave answering the phone and he will wax on just like this interview for an hour. Just because he is truly always stoked on MTB's and the business itself. I want to see that Ti hardtail with a Turner HT badge. Hopefully US made.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 10:20)
: +1 on the 'DT Dream Bike'. Maybe as a '30th Anniversary Special'?
+ 5
(Jul 13, 2017 at 5:07)
Been riding Turner's since the mid 90's, I wont ride anything else, I currently own 3, would love to see a new DHR,,, Hint hint
+ 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 8:01)
He's not listening. I keep saying the same thing
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 10:52)
: he should be, considering the real reason the company did so well was that we all drooled over the DHR, then bought a trail bike.
+ 1
(Jul 13, 2017 at 12:47)
: dropped into the Turner warehouse a couple weeks ago and asked DT about a new DH bike. Not happening. Too expensive to make at his standards. He did say if he ever made another DH bike, it'll be single speed, something cheaper and more affordable.
+ 1
(Jul 13, 2017 at 12:50)
: I find that pretty surprising considering how much was put into the DHR revisions, esp the DW one, and the lineage and history the brand has w downhill racing.
+ 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 18:00)
My DW-DHR will never quit... I fukking love it.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 19:42)
: I know. It's the corvette theory of sales. No one can buy a corvette, butt they aspire to it. So they buy a Chevy. You dont really make on the corvette, you make money because of it.
+ 1
(Jul 14, 2017 at 5:40)
: wow. Haven't seen you on a forum in forever
+ 3
(Jul 14, 2017 at 5:59)
: exactly. There's a strong argument for having a DH bike even as a marketing tool.
+ 2
(Jul 16, 2017 at 11:41)
My first real mountain bike was a anodised gold Turner Nitrous just like the one hanging on his wall. 10 bikes later and I'm ditching my full suspension carbon Scott spark and putting the finishing touches to a Turner 5 spot I rescued.
+ 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 8:09)
Had an 08 DHR, and easily the best bike I have owned. It was just indestructible!! Would love to see a new DHR, pleeeeease Dave, make one!!!
+ 2
(Jul 17, 2017 at 2:49)
Another happy 2001 RFX owner here. Spent my first proper job pay cheque on that thing, it's the most expensive bike related purchase I ever made (£1950 for an aluminium frame) yet the most value-for money, ride it for 14 years until 2015.
I have to say that I'm confused by Dave's dream bike though, 'A fully rigid titanium single speed, with 27.5 x 2.6 wheels—massively long top tube, 770mm wide bar, and a quiet hub.' Both because he was one of the first to see the benefits of suspension, and also because his bikes have always gone with a shorter reach which is something that I prefer. Guess he's just riding different trails these days.
+ 3
(Jul 13, 2017 at 7:13)
The orange DW-linked DHR is NOT the production (and the last current) frame... I think it was the prototype before they drew up the final production frame. UNLESS that's a new 29er DHR coming out... lol!
+ 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 8:05)
Yup. Proto. Good to keep one for a week and rip around on One of them. It was heavy and overbuilt for testing If you could look up close and compare to stock, the rear swingarm is burlier than stock and the linkage is thick, blocky and far from.production. I loved it though.
+ 6
(Jul 13, 2017 at 9:32)
So many signs from the universe that I should buy a new RFX.
+ 2
(Jul 26, 2017 at 18:55)
Still sportin my '13 5.Spot. Not my only. But see's my butt way more than the others. Same with my Sweety Pie and her '15 Burner. Orange ano. Beautiful. Got 'em both direct. Both ordered after a number of conversations with a variety of the company's staffers - who were without exception absolutely ENTHUSED to be helping.
Those things see the hard use. The unexplored. The chunky. The difficult. And the steep. Both as good or better climbers than I would expect from any bike. Awesome comfy pedallers. Durable & reliable to a fault. They also see all of our travels (even last year's hut-to-hut. Perfect choice. Glad to have my 5.Spot under me with every stroke of the pedals day-after-day.
Any issues or a question to Turner Bikes sees a dang nabbit speedy response from the man himself. Need a part? Same dang nab speedy response and no doubt with the big guy's finger prints on it somewhere. Granted - there are other brands that make decent bikes. But from my limited experience - dollers tah doe-nuts you'll not find the golden package provided by Dave & his crew.
Ever hear anybody say anything even remotely critical of Turner Bikes, Turner's bikes, or Mr Turner?
Me either. Kudos, Dave. And you can wear your beanie anywhere anytime for any reason. You wear it well.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 10:07)
"A fully rigid titanium single speed, with 27.5 x 2.6 wheels—massively long top tube, 770mm wide bar, and a quiet hub."
So can Turner go ahead and make this bike? Sounds basically perfect.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 13:12)
I harrased Dave about a hardtail at Sea Otter. I pointed out that even though he said no hardtails years ago, because the company is Turner Suspension Bicycles, he already did a cross bike. I still have my fingers crossed.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 13:44)
Damn it, now I want a single speed titanium hardtail.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 13:53)
: and the CX bike is sweeeeeet!
+ 1
(Jul 14, 2017 at 2:22)
When I read that line the question instantly popped. What exactly is stopping him from making one, at least for himself only?
+ 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 9:07)
Turner bikes rule! Dave is the man! Thanks for many great years of mtn riding bro.
+ 5
(Jul 13, 2017 at 12:08)
I can't believe 1992 was 25 years ago already!
+ 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 14:19)
I know right! I remember those days like it was yesterday.
+ 1
(Jul 15, 2017 at 15:34)
Purchased one of the first Sultan's he produced and for the time it made a 29'er FS rideable. When he produced the DW Sultan in a great "Trail Bike" was born.
DT was a true innovator.
As far as 29'ers are concerned he is behind the times. The new breed of trail bikes are just outstanding and Turner isn't making one....sad
+ 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 1:55)
Great article, thank you. I'd like to hear more of the 'back in the day' stories.
+ 1
(Jul 14, 2017 at 15:06)
If you want to see what American mountain bike manufacturing can be (though it's currently on a small scale), check out Guerrilla Gravity. What a fantastic company and what great bikes. My Trail Pistol is amazing! The spec is competitive with many larger companies. The frame is sublime.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 10:48)
"By hiring World Cup level riders, companies hope to impress upon the viewing audience that their bikes are great, but the truth is, riders at that level can race frozen dog shit and kick ass, and many do!" The truth!
+ 1
(Aug 2, 2017 at 13:08)
Reading through the comments and the DHR is dominating the thread. Not bad for a bike that hasn't been produced in years. ... Obviously there's interest, so if there's ever a 650b DHR produced, take my money! (Hell, I'd even go 29" if it meant a new DHR!)
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 3:19)
Must be something in the name "Turner", between both Paul and Dave we've got six frames and four forks!
BUT....none of that DW nonsense for me, thanks.
+ 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 9:36)
Don't forget Gary Turner (GT bikes)
+ 1
(Jul 13, 2017 at 9:58)
: Criminy, you're right! S'gotta be the name...
+ 1
(Jul 14, 2017 at 8:35)
All I want to know is what happened to the beautiful 6-pack prototype from a few years back. Now that was a sexy piece of bike.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 21:00)
I love it when Pastor Dave preaches his sermons strewn with truth, prophecy, and retrospective clarity.
+ 1
(Jul 13, 2017 at 18:18)
I would still like a square tube dhr. Every once in a while i think about finding one to try some offset shock bushings and slacker headset cups...
+ 2
(Jul 14, 2017 at 7:27)
Am I the only Turner owner that felt let down when they shifted to carbon? The welds on my 5 spot we're perfect.
+ 1
(Jul 13, 2017 at 1:06)
I'm curious--what's the difference between enduro (racer) wheels & tires and weekend warrior wheels & tires? (For wheels, I imagine that's carbon vs alloy?)
+ 1
(Jul 13, 2017 at 1:24)
Probably those expensive carbon rims? But I'm puzzled too.
+ 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 2:07)
I think Enduro racers need a beefier tire,double carcass or very reinforced and foam inserts to prevent a flat. Most people runs on regular 2.5/2.4 tires tubeless and alloy rims,lucky people run on fancy carbon rims. 1 flat while racing and your are done,go home and think for the next race. If I get a flat I look for a good place to rest a little bit while and repair it whit no worry at all.
+ 1
(Jul 13, 2017 at 3:30)
I think its a case of needing stronger rims & more protective tires for racing because the guys are going faster and hitting things harder, not to mention how a puncture can be detrimental to their race against the clock.
+ 1
(Jul 13, 2017 at 4:12)
I'd have thought the opposite to the commenters above. Racers will want to have to haul less weight around, admittedly not at a total sacrifice to durability, whereas your average weekend Joe park basher is probably going to want the shiny carbon rims to last as long as resonably possible despite the cased jumps and rocky line "choices" they inevitably put them through.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 4:16)
I guess the weekend warrior just wants something that lasts and doesn't care about something that's marginally faster. Whereas the racer needs to go fast and is willing to invest in that and may even go as far as compromise some durability. So if a tire is worn in two weeks, that's good enough for the racers. But that's going to put off the regular rider.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 5:09)
They should have worked in a mention of Gary Turner... Seemingly a common surname in our industry.
+ 3
(Jul 13, 2017 at 2:29)
I still compare new dh bikes to my 2005 dhr
+ 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 7:50)
I had an 05 DHR and upgraded to a 13 DHR, significant imporvment over something i did not think could get any better, if only the 6-pack was lighter i would still have only turner bikes. These guys kick ass
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 3:46)
DT is awesome. I wish I had hung on to my old 26" burner from '04. Lovely machine
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 7:03)
I always imagined Sam Hill riding and winning on a DW Link Turner DHR. Sunday?
+ 3
(Jul 13, 2017 at 8:30)
You're the man Dave!!! Nothin' rides like a Turner
+ 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 9:19)
Shoulda bought a Turner.
+ 2
(Jul 14, 2017 at 19:16)
Still riding my 2009 Turner 5-spot! Very capable still...
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 10:50)
Which came first, the Torker logo or the Turner logo?
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 21:01)
My old square tube dhr was so good!
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 12:45)
Yo Dave -- I'll sell you some of my AMZN stock for a new RFX!! Deal?
+ 2
(Jul 14, 2017 at 14:44)
Those bikes are real head Turners.
+ 1
(Jul 13, 2017 at 8:52)
Could build new rear ends for the DHR and make it new wheel size compatible.
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 10:46)
Thanks for everything Dave
+ 1
(Jul 15, 2017 at 12:37)
Soooo when do I get to purchase the new and improved DHR?
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 9:31)
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 6:29)
Great bikes!
+ 1
(Jul 13, 2017 at 7:44)
Hi Dave! Blast from the past!
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 16:18)
bikes with machine soul
+ 0
(Jul 13, 2017 at 16:09)
Needs to invest in marketing. Its a must or he will only be around for a few more years.
+ 2
(Jul 15, 2017 at 22:26)
What you just read above, including the comments = brand marketing.
- 1
(Jul 13, 2017 at 6:39)
I was surprised to read his thoughts about people's images when they pull up to trailheads.
- 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 6:57)
Did Dave really imply that someone should purchase one of his bikes to improve their image and up their trailhead credibility?
Below threshold threads are hidden
- 14
(Jul 13, 2017 at 0:11)
Turner Bikes are still a thing? Huh. Who knew?
+ 4
(Jul 13, 2017 at 0:33)
Yeah, and they are really, really good! Who knew?
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 8:48)
It's an American maker. Small brand, but the bikes have a solid reputation. Very durable, pedal well, remain plush.
- 7
(Jul 13, 2017 at 15:29)
He sounds jaded. He can't afford the new standards the big players are releasing. The new standards aren't all BS marketing scams. It's evolution. Evolve or die.
+ 5
(Jul 13, 2017 at 19:04)
But a small company needs a huge infusion of cash to gear up for the carbon molds in each size. You have to be very conservative. Go to long on the TT and run the super long & slack geo and it doesn't sell, you're screwed and holding $300K in obsolete molds and wasted months of travel to shitty countries you don'tt want to go to to survive. Not an easy business.
The cost of playing the game has skyrocketed and it sucks for the small makers.
- 5
(Jul 13, 2017 at 22:42)
(Below Threshold)
show comment
Yea, Kinda seems like sour grapes. He's always bagging on larger companies. But he'd be running one of those larger companies if things would have worked out for him.
And him complaining about other companies marketing after trying to convince everyone TNT was just as good as Horst especially when he turned around and paid someone else for their suspension technology soon after that is hypocritical. Where's his innovation?
+ 2
(Jul 13, 2017 at 22:59)
: That's business, big or small. It's always a risk vs reward question forecasting consumer trends. For all everyone bitches about anything "new" in mountain bikes as a conglomerate we still vote with their wallets for all the new stuff every time...
The DW burner was conservative, the market for an aluminum DW RFX was ready and willing. They held off to go carbon and by the time they got the bike to market the geometry was already out of date because the market had shifted.
+ 1
(Jul 14, 2017 at 2:16)
: " I believe some companies let the smaller brands feel out the market direction and then they would follow. With the massive dealer networks the larger companies had, it's not like they weren't selling bikes, they just weren't selling the cutting edge or the best bikes."
So DT devised a strategy of becoming more conservative than the big guys? Fact is, if you are small you cannot be more conservative than the big names in the business. You are forced to take greater risks, make it or break it, like Pole and Zerode each in their field are doing.
- 6
(Jul 13, 2017 at 8:34)
For a guy who greatly built his company's reputation on his dh bike, he sure is disenchanted with them. To dismiss downhill as mearly a marketing ploy and no more relevant than an F1 car is to disregard a significant user base as well as a respected and loved form of riding/racing. None of us here will ever own an F1 car but many of us have or have had a downhill bike. To dismiss them like that makes me think that Turner is more concerned with marketing to the deep pocketed masses than recognizing the awesome diversity in this sport and how it all has a place on the mountain.
+ 10
(Jul 13, 2017 at 9:44)
Pretty sure DT's his point was that DH bikes don't sell in big numbers but are mainly driving Brand awareness/marketing. Which if you look at sales numbers are a fact. Not a denigrating on DH bikes at all.
+ 0
(Jul 13, 2017 at 10:34)
Keep in mind that the 'DH' bikes that made the brand were under 4" of rear travel. Most people wouldn't even call that XC now unless it was 29"! Those first Burners and Stingers made *everyone* who rode them 'All Mountain' riders, which is what made them famous. Put a normal rider on a modern DH bike(?), he ain't headed to the trails, that's for sure...
If you want to cry 'marketing ploy', the original DHR is your target. Any niche is a marketing ploy, but it's when the product transcends its market to find a more universal acclaim and usage that the phrase 'classic' comes into use- for instance; "Did the Turner Rail begat 'slopestyle'?
+ 3
(Jul 13, 2017 at 13:16)
Downhill bikes just don't sell in large numbers. I was talking to a bike shop near Northstar last weekend and he told me they don't even stock them anymore because sales came to a stop with Enduro bikes taking over that market.
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text:
Leadership Team
Michael Henley
Since 1991, Michael has grown with APG, and in 2009, was appointed President. Today, Michael oversees preconstruction operations, contract administration, business development, public relations, and employee development.
E-mail Mike
Chris Johnson
Vice President
Joining APG in 1988, Chris has grown to the position of Vice President, where he oversees all field operations, project management, and resource planning. Chris also leads the Safety Committee as Coordinator, in addition to other duties.
E-mail Chris
Trina Rodriguez
Chief Financial Officer
As CFO, Trina is responsible for the accounting and financial operations of the company, including accounts payable/receivable, project accounting, pay requests, banking, and financial reporting. She is also editor of our Pipeline newsletter.
E-mail Trina
Steve Tallyn
Director of Business Development
With over 35 years of extensive experience, Steve's knowledge in planning and design, along with a team-player attitude, make him a valued member of any project team. Outside the office, Steve is an active member of the FHEA, NFPA, and the IESNA.
E-mail Steve
John LaFuze
APG Electric Preconstruction Manager
Having more than 20 years experience as an electrical estimator, John's ability to focus simultaneously on both the smallest details and the big picture of a project provides him with an unmatched skill set that benefits all of our customers.
E-mail John
Terry Ryan
APG Electric Preconstruction Special Projects
With over 30 years with APG Electric, Terry brings a tremendous amount of experience to our estimating team, focusing on projects that require that extra bit of attention. Terry also serves as Apprenticeship Chairman for the local Independent Electrical Contractors.
E-mail Terry
Lester Weil
APG Technology Group Manager
Serving APG for over 25 years, Lester has a diverse knowledge of technology systems, project types, and problem solving methods. With years of experience and continuous training, Lester successfully leads a fast-growing team of talented individuals.
E-mail Lester
Tim White
APG Service Group Manager
Heading up the Service Group, Tim has been a valuable part of APG for over 30 years. His leadership has helped bring the Service team to be one of the most well-respected and reliable groups in the region, regularly exceeding customer expectations.
E-mail Tim
Pete Hyneman
APG Electric Service Manager
With APG since 1990, Pete works closely with customers to determine their needs, and coordinates with his technicians and vendors to make sure service requests are handled swiftly and with APG professionalism.
E-mail Pete
BJ Klingensmith
APG Life Safety Group Manager
BJ brings over 25 years of experience in sales, installation, and service of fire alarm systems for all kinds of project types. He is a licensed fire alarm contractor, journeyman electrician, and has NICET Level III certification in fire alarm systems.
E-mail BJ
Kevin Dewitt
APG Automation Group Manager
Since 1985, Kevin has grown with APG from a technician in the field to leading the APG Automation group. His extensive experience helps him to find practical solutions to Owners' problems, bringing great value to our customers.
E-mail Kevin

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Toyota Motorsports
DENNY HAMLIN, No. 11 FedEx Express Toyota Camry, Joe Gibbs Racing
How do you feel entering this weekend's race? "Today was a little bit of a struggle. We didn't have a whole lot of speed in our car. At times it wasn't too bad, but looking forward to the race. We normally race really well here at Bristol. I love coming here. The race is always exciting when we leave here. Looking forward to it. This is a weekend where we feel like we can get stuff going."
Are you running Kyle Busch's setup in the car this weekend? "It was when we unloaded. It was off of his quite a bit because we didn't really get to race here in the spring. We ran five laps and got caught up in an accident. We had a drive shaft break on us last fall halfway through or so. We haven't been able to complete a race here under normal circumstances in a while. It made sense for us to go with our teammates stuff unloading. We've wholesaled it since then."
What is different about your season this year? "I wish I knew honestly, but things change a lot and they can change in a matter of a few months from December and January and even Daytona in February. A lot of team members change and things like that in the off season and it's really bad years as we like to call ours this year. The Roush cars were not as strong last year like they are this year. That is three or four cars at the top that were not there and now they are. There are a couple guys that have stepped up and gotten much better. With the little bit that we're off right now, it's just being exploited by those cars that are now faster than us. We've just got to find the one and a half tenths at each race track that we're off right now."
How much pressure are you feeling? "I think every week that leads into the first Chase race, there's going to be more and more pressure. Especially if you're going backwards and not forwards. The pressure will continue to build and that's going to be a given. I feel better about it. I feel like we've had some good meetings this week. I feel like we have a good game plan going forward on how we can improve our program, but it's not something that's going to change overnight. It's just stuff that's going to take a long time to kind of show the changes that we make from here on out."
Are you and Mike Ford communicating better? "I think so. I think we had to get more on the same page than what we had been lately. I think that the meetings that we had and the discussions that we had got us back to that point. Now time will only tell how your on track performance goes from here on out. You have to see how the other reacts to those issues that might come about. I feel like I got frustrated when things didn't go well and the communication kind of shut off at times. From this point forward, we have a different game plan when we face adverse situations and I think it's going to be better."
How does the communication change? "It's tough because when things are good and you're winning races, sometimes you almost communicate more than you do when things are bad, which in turn are the opposite of what it should be. When you're struggling you need to communicate more and more and more on what we need to do to get better. I know last year we were really good -- even when we were winning races, we were discussing that night about what we could have done to make our car better that night. We've got such a frustrating time going this summer with engine failures and part failures and stuff like that. Sometimes it's tough to bear through that and step up and say, 'Okay, we'll figure those things out and just keep working on our own deal.' I think that all those failures through the summer just took it's toll on myself and the team. We're obviously trying to bounce back through that now."
How will you react tomorrow if you're not strong at the start? "Well, bottom line if we suck tomorrow, that's the number one thing -- I haven't finished these last few weeks. Brakes broke on us at Watkins Glen and we didn't finish. We didn't finish well last week cause I overdrove and got into the wall. We gave up an entire race worth of points because of not finishing. So no matter what, if we struggle then we've got to figure out how we can get the best finish for that day and that's something that it's been four or five weeks since we've done and I think that we've got a good game plan for that. And I honestly think that we won't struggle. I think that we'll be good. We typically race well here. We don't always practice great, but we just got to weather through it and figure out what it takes to make that car go faster."
Can pressure to make the Chase in Richmond lead to mistakes? "Well, almost from our standpoint you want to almost have nothing to lose going into Richmond. Every team handles pressure differently. I think that I had to race my way into the Chase twice going into Richmond had a chance to go in or out and it's not fun. I can tell you want to just be able to go out there and focus on getting your best finish, but when you have to constantly worry about where the guys are running it's no fun at all. I think that it's going to be the last restart until the picture is going to be clear who's going to be where."
Do you think about being able to reset points entering Chicago? "We're not thinking about Chicago. I can tell you that as far as a mindset standpoint we're not even thinking about Chicago and where we're going to be at that point, but that's the great part about the points system, I can tell you that. We can sit here and struggle for 26 weeks and still have a shot with 10 races to go. I think any other team having the struggles we've had over the summer, they would be 25th in points. We're not horrible, but this is obviously the lowest we've been in my career. But this is a good sign for our race team. I know that we've got too much talent on the pit box, on the pit crew and behind the seat that we belong in the Chase and if we get in the Chase we can be as dangerous as anyone, if we get things going. If we just figure out the things we need to work on and as far as what we came this weekend it's more stuff between me and Mike (Ford, crew chief) and not necessarily a lot to air out."
Are you taking more time in debriefing? "Yeah, basically. In a nutshell, yeah. More time debriefing and not trying to just do anything too dramatic. We used to after practice rather we were 25th or first in practice just take a few minutes, 'This is okay. Alright, well let's get out there and race.' And I think at times we're getting a little too technical. Too technical. We're trying to look in depth at the car a little too much."
Is the Chase like a brand new season? "I think from my standpoint, if I make it I'm going to treat it just like I did my rookie year and anything else beyond 12th in points is a bonus considering our year. We want to go out and there and we want to win the championship, but any other year if it wouldn't be for this Chase format, I mean, we would be thinking about the best we can finish is the top-10 in points this year sitting right here, but anything can happen. We've seen Juan Pablo (Montoya) I think a couple of year ago who kind of squeaked into the Chase on a slump and all the sudden the Chase started and he started running extremely well. You want to peak at the right time and obviously this little low point for us it's going to go higher. We're going to get better. We know we're going to get better and so my goal when I go to these next three races tracks is to win and I wouldn't show up if I didn't feel like I could win every single one of them."
Did you think injuries can help aid you in a season? "I don't know why that is. I mean, I think that for us I think it was more coincidence, maybe team moral, things like that, but it was really a turning point for us when I got injured. But I knew that I did not want that -- I injured myself outside of the race car, so I didn't want me to be the reason we declined in performance. So you focused extra hard on which your business was, what you had to do, that part of it. And then all the sudden all the pieces started coming together and so I don't know because I don't know the in depth of their team and how they work or everything or through everything, but it's just -- I don't know. Maybe there's a level of focus there you gain when you are injured, because you try to put that out of your mind and you just focus on you not being the weak link."
Any idea where the Short-Track Showdown will be next year? "Yeah. I know Southside (Speedway) kind of they reopened on kind of a limited schedule this year. We would like to keep it at Richmond. We got a lot of good TV audience. It raised a lot of exposure and already got a lot of Cup guys wanting to participate in the race. I thought it was an awesome race. I thought we put on a great show out there. I could see the rain right before the race -- didn't help attendance at all, but still we reached relatively the same numbers and goals that we had at Southside. I'll ultimately -- we want it to be a big race not only for us and the charities, but for the guys, the local racers to go back to Richmond and race. That's where they -- whenever we're racing, they're not racing. They're coming to watch us. They want to race on the big track and that was our first time back there in about 10 years. We would like to keep it there."


text:
The citrus longhorn beetle, Anoplophora chinensis (Forster), is a non-native pest that is extremely damaging to a wide range of broadleaved trees and shrubs. It is a quarantine pest for the European Union. The natural range of the beetle includes China, Japan and other countries in South East Asia. Citrus longhorn beetles have been moving around the world in ornamental trees from Asia. They pose a serious threat to horticulture, forestry and native trees in the UK.
The threat
Although there are no known outbreaks of the beetle in the UK, the numerous interceptions since 2005 and outbreaks in Europe demonstrate that there is a significant threat to the UK.
Adult beetles are large and black with variable white markings. Their antennae are particularly distinctive, longer than their bodies (between 1.2–2 times body length) and black with white/light blue bands. The larval stage of the beetles is the most damaging. The larvae feed internally on the pith and vascular systems of the lower trunk and root.
The tunnels created by the feeding leave trees susceptible to diseases and wind damage. The adults can cause more limited damage by feeding on foliage and eating young bark. Citrus longhorn beetles spend most of their life, as larvae inside a trunk or root, and hence there can be little or no external sign of their presence to anyone inspecting a host tree.
Images and description (Fera website)
Their lifecycle can be one to two years in Asia, however in the UK the lifecycle is likely to be at least two years and more likely three or more years as in the Netherlands.
Susceptible trees
Citrus longhorn beetle has an extensive host range of deciduous trees and shrubs including many species native to the UK and species grown as ornamentals. In 2008, the EU Commission passed emergency measures aimed at stopping the introduction and spread of this pest within the Community. The Decision referred specifically to the following trees and shrubs which are known to be the most significant hosts of citrus longhorn beetle: Acer spp. (maples), Aesculus hippocastanum (horse chestnut), Alnus spp. (alder), Betula spp. (birch), Carpinus spp. (hornbeam), Citrus spp., Corylus spp. (hazel), Cotoneaster spp., Fagus spp. (beech), Lagerstroemia spp., Malus spp. (apple), Platanus spp. (plane), Populus spp. (poplar), Prunus spp. (cherry etc.), Pyrus spp. (pear), Salix spp. (willow), and Ulmus spp. (elm).
More information (Fera website)
Reporting suspected cases
If you think you have spotted the disease please tell us using Tree Alert


text:
GCA barred from money transactions
Goa government had constituted a two-member panel to look into the financial misappropriation and irregularities in GCA, following complaints by local clubs.
Chetan Desai, former GCA secretary, who heads the panel, yesterday ordered the association not to have any financial transactions till they submit the report.
"The formal inquiry into the affairs of GCA would start on May 7," Desai told PTI.


text: i have been haveing some trouble finding a good gate mower. i can fit a 36 in most of these yards but they are all way to damn much $$$. atleast for a hydro they are and im done with belt drives!!! the quick 36 would be my #1 choice if it wasn't 39.5 wide < WTF is that all about ??? > anyway i have only been able to find a ferris 32 that seems allright. i can't buy it though the dealer screwed me out of 5K last time i delt with them. what other hydro 32's or cheap 36's are out there ?


text:
Reuters Staff
1 Min Read
June 1 (Reuters) - Volkswagen Of America Inc:
* Volkswagen of America Inc - May sales totaled 30,014 units, an increase of 4.3 percent over May 2016 Source text (bit.ly/2rIOLCf) Further company coverage:
All quotes delayed a minimum of 15 minutes. See here for a complete list of exchanges and delays.
© 2017 Reuters. All Rights Reserved.


text:
How much can you take away from a picture before it becomes unrecognizable? The folks at the Dutch company SPRANQ took this challenge to font design and have come up with a way to make a font that uses 20% less ink.
Called the Ecofont, it's made by placing little holes inside the lines of the font so that when printed at 10 pt or less, it looks like a solid line.
SPRANQ isn't looking to make money off the product, so it's giving away the font for free.
Ink-Saving Typefaces
More Stats +/-
Anatomical Typography
Eco-Friendly Fonts
Create Your Own Font
Social Media-Inspired Dog Toys
24/7 Gift Pick-Up Services
The Ecofont Makes Each Cartridge Last 20% Longer
- By: Michael PlishkaDec 13, 2008
References: ecofont.eu
References: ecofont.eu


text:
You can only message people who are following you. If you'd like to message this person, simply join our Recruiter Pro Plan.
Being the sole member of staff dealing with all customer service duties within the head office and assisting the ecommerce manager.
Responsibilites To greet customers and provide an outstanding customer service & manage individual client books and VIP clients To carry out mail orders and security checks before processing orders To respond quickly and effectively to incoming boutique emails To offer in depth product knowledge and help style clients with suitable fashion items To respond quickly and efficiently to all telephone calls in friendly, professional manner Key Achievements Receiving 92% in the Selfridges mystery shopper report Gaining further experience in providing a high level of customer service in a luxury shoe brand
Responsibilities To greet customers and provide an outstanding customer service To share product brand knowledge with new members of the team To style clients and offer outfit suggestions from the current season collection To build an individual client base as well as adding new customers to client book To keep all stock levels replenished and maintain a high standard of cleanliness throughout the boutique Key Achievements Gaining experience in luxury ready to wear clothing and insight into Savile Row tailoring Building a client book and gaining customer relationship management skills Achieving individual and group monthly sales targetsResponsibilities To greet customers and provide an outstanding customer service To achieve a high level of sales so that targets could be achieved To constantly replenish stock and maintain high department standards To complete and send end-of-day financial and best seller reports to head office
Working with in the mens wear concession in Selfridges, providing customers with outstanding customer service and helping them select stylish outfit suggestions. Key Achievements Training and mentoring new staff members with customer service techniques and new product knowledge Gainging further experiences in providing a luxury customer service within the premium goods sector Learning further cross selling & large UPT transaction skills Gainging 100% in a Selfridges mystery shopper report
Business & Management


text:
Publisher: Greenwillow Books
Series: Fire and Thorns #1
Source: Bought
Once a century, one person is chosen for greatness.Elisa is the chosen one.
But she is also the younger of two princesses, the one who has never done anything remarkable. She can't see how she ever will.
Now, on her sixteenth birthday, she has become the secret wife of a handsome and worldly king—a king whose country is in turmoil. A king who needs the chosen one, not a failure of a princess.
And he's not the only one who seeks her. Savage enemies seething with dark magic are hunting her. A daring, determined revolutionary thinks she could be his people's savior. And he looks at her in a way that no man has ever looked at her before. Soon it is not just her life, but her very heart that is at stake.
Elisa could be everything to those who need her most. If the prophecy is fulfilled. If she finds the power deep within herself. If she doesn't die young.
Most of the chosen do.
I want to start with Elisa, because I absolutely adored her. She's incredibly intelligent and brave, even though she often doubts herself. These insecurities are, perhaps, what make her so completely relatable. But what made me love her most was her strength. Elisa has so much going against her- her family hasn't been the most encouraging, she has a ton of pressure on her, she doesn't look the way people expect her to, and she's being sent off to marry a stranger and be a queen of a foreign land at 16- but she holds her head high and fights on, no matter how scared she is. She undergoes massive character development, which is done so smoothly and naturally that you won't even notice it's happening.
One of Elisa's aforementioned obstacles was her appearance. Elisa is overweight, which is a welcome change from the usual skinny protagonists that are found throughout YA. (Not to say that there's anything wrong with being skinny. There should just be more diversity.) The author discusses this in her article "Weighing In On Weight," which is found in the back of the paperback and online. Carson handles the subject of weight flawlessly throughout TGFT and I commend her for it. That post especially is worth a read.
As for Elisa's romance with Humberto, I liked it. Their relationship is sweet and it's nice that they start out as friends. My only complaint is that Humberto is too perfect. (I know, you're wondering how that's a problem, aren't you?) Perhaps Elisa hasn't known him for long enough to see his flaws? Or maybe her perception of him is skewed so that she sees only his kindness and his acceptance. Either way, it doesn't really detract from the romance, only if you're super picky like me! Also, I was a little disappointed that Lord Hector isn't the love interest, if I'm being entirely honest.
What I really want to talk about The Girl of Fire and Thorns is the importance of religion within the story. It seems that so few YA books incorporate- or even mention- religion or faith, so this was another break from the norm. Carson explores faith from all different angles and does so brilliantly. Elisa is religious, but not without her questions and doubts, which I personally found incredibly relatable.
One last thing I'd like to note is the setting. Overall, it had more of a Spanish feel than a British one*. (Yet another aspect that set this apart from other fantasies!) I loved the feel that the deserts and language created, and Elisa's descriptions of the places around her make you feel as if you're seeing through your eyes. It's beautiful in a very raw way.
Can you tell that I really loved this book yet? I can't wait to read Crown of Embers, even though The Girl of Fire and Thorns wraps up quite nicely. I could say more, about the action, war strategies, and a bunch of other awesome stuff that made this book so great, but I'll wrap it up here. Basically, this fantasy lover is quite thrilled to have discovered this series!
*Carson said that Elisa's world was largely inspired by Spanish Morocco in this interview.
What YA books have you read that deal with religion?


text:
screen turn blue / Slackware 14.0 xfce 4.10 GeForce GO 6100
my screen "turns blue" from time to time, looks like the red(?) colour channel doesn't get through anymore (or is it the yellow?). I don't think there's something wrong with the cable. Eventually it comes back to normal.
I use Slackware 14.0 / xfce 4.10 / on a Acer Aspire 9300 laptop (GeForce GO 6100)
the screen is a LG W2340S ( I don't use the labtop's screen )
any idea ?
Sounds like hardware to me, sorry to say. If it were a video driver issue you'd be screwed all the time as opposed to just sometimes.
How do you know for sure the cable is good? If it's VGA just part with a couple of bucks and spring for a new one. I'm assuming you re-seated the connections and looked for bent pins etc.
Moderator Response
Moved: This thread is more suitable in <Slackware> and has been moved accordingly to help your thread/question get the exposure it deserves.
|All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:05 PM.


text:
Cascade Collision Repair - Provo
Review for Cascade Collision Repair - Provo
James B. on 04/19/2016
James said everything went well with the service provided by the business. His vehicle wasn't ready when they called. He had to wait another 20 minutes but she would still recommend them.
Category: Collision
Service Date: 04/15/2016
Review Created: 04/19/2016
This review was collected via phone interview by Customer Research Inc.


text:
Where Do You Stand?
View Single Post
September 14th, 2010, 10:39 AM
Enjoying her Sticky Bun
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NYC
Posts: 13,499
Pro choice, but there should be limitation, IMO. Like nothing past the 1st trimester unless the mothers life is in danger.
Drinking age
bring it back down to 18. If you can drive a car, join the military and vote, then you should be able to drink a beer.
Political stance
I'm a registered Dem, but I find that I tend to lean more towards a conservative Dem.
Selective Service
needs to stay voluntary
Gay marriage
Universal pre-k
Sex education
Sin Tax
for I have no issues paying taxes for my own vices.
legalization of marijuana
for make it legal and then tax the hell out of it
Universal Health care
"performance pay" for teachers
no real decision either way I guess it depends on the school system.
against but I support our troops
Methods of birth control
How many kids people should have
whatever they can handle without being a total burden on society
Vegetarian/eating meat
eat how you wish
gun control
death penalty
depends on the level of the criminal offender and if they are guilty with out a doubt
your choice
Fertility treatments/Assisted reproduction
I'm fine with them but I do feel there should be an age limit. For example, a 60 year old should not be able to get fertility treatments.
Assisted suicide
your life your choice
Illegal Immigrants *not immigration POLICY
They don't bother me at all
Gender Selection
Fat Tax
against since this will most likely effect the lower income population
Shopping Carts
fine as long as they stay in the store and store lot
Kids drinking soda/eating candy/poptarts for breakfast
soda and candy against, but the occasional pop tart is fine by me
Peanut Butter bans in schools for nut allergies
depends on how severe the allergy is
more power to you
Government involvement in citizens lives
against for the most part
Seat Belt law/ laws to protect citizens from themselves
Unassisted Childbirthing
I think it's out there but your choice
Plastic Surgery
your choice
Chili (with or without beans)
depend on my mood
for, people sometimes do need it
dress codes for school/office
I'm fine with it
Elective C-sections/elective repeat C-Sections
against if it truly is elective
Introducing solids
whatever you feel is best for your baby
Car Seats
Children and Pets
umm don't most people want both?
Nursing in Public
Cry it Out
for but with limits
Television and Infants/Toddlers
no problem as long as they're not there for all of their waking hours
Caring for your elderly parents
should be done by you if you can manage
love em
In-N-Out Burger
huh? never heard of it
Reborn dolls
some of them are cute
Homosexual orientation/relationships
whatever floats your boat
another to each their own as long as it's not a forced the choice, I don't care what you do
Scary movies
bring em on
Transcultural adoption
Drug testing welfare recipients
"Luxuries" on welfare- vacation, designer accessories, upscale phones, TV w/cable, etc
I don't judge in that department. You may have had those items before you needed welfare.
Organized religions
not a fan of but I'm not against it either
Mandatory breastfeeding attempts/prescriptions for formula
very against, it's a huge slap in the face to mothers, like myself, who were unable to bf even though we wanted to.
Family beds
to each their own
TTC on assistance
isn't this the same as fertility treatments? see my fertility treatments response
Infants/toddlers in bikini style swim suits
cute to a point, I've seen some slutty ones put on children that young
Leash backpacks for kids
I'm not bothered at all, I actually had to use one for my son for a short while.
Beauty pageants
I could take them or leave them
TV watching for kids under age 2
doesn't this fall under the infant/toddler tv time question? See that response
❤ Big Thanks to Vicki, trishosaurus, & Shortcake for the great siggies of my kids! ❤
Liz (36) Kev (35)
Tiana (16) Doni (14) Lil Kev (8) Ethan 7/23/12 Lil Roo
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text:
First, get a bowl and put 1/4 cup warm water in it. I used to think water needed to be quite hot to raise yeast, but this is not the case. If in doubt, err on the side of baby bath water rather than a hot shower as far as temperature goes.
Now just let that sit while you heat up the milk and butter. I put mine in a bowl and stuck it in the microwave for one minute and thirty seconds. This is what it looked like after coming out of the microwave:
The butter isn't all the way melted, but that is o.k. Just set it aside to cool for a bit and move on.
Put your flour, sugar, and salt in a mixing bowl (I used my Kitchen Aid) and then pour in the slightly cooled butter/milk mixture. (If your butter/milk mixture is still really hot, just take a break and do some Pinteresting or something).
Mix that all up. Then add your egg.
Now add your yeast that you have been proofing. Mine didn't get super bubbly, but that is o.k. As long as you can see that there has been some action in your yeast bowl, things will work out just fine. This is what mine looked like before I added it to the dough:


text:
Well,,,,,,,,,, IT looks alot,lot diffrent now !!!!!
Herford , Germany BFPO15
Bloody hell thats changed a bit...
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[URL=https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/gallery/photos/maresfield-bks-south-camp-2005.3284/]Maresfield bks South camp 2005[/URL] by [URL=https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/gallery/authors/lonetree.10778/]LoneTree[/URL] on Army Rumour Service
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